The Sun. — London, England, 1839-04-26 00:00:00

E VEN EDITioN THE NATIONAL CONVENTION. 1 ( YESTERDAY.) Mr. HETHERINGTON in the Chaie. On reading the minutes of Wednesday's proceedings, Mr. RoGEes objected that the S ,, cretary had entered !ome "understanding" on which he had understood a motion to be withdrawn. Nothing in his (Mr. Rogers') opinion, ought to be entered except what was put into the Chairman's hands.—(Heir. hear.) The SECRETARY said he considered it but fair, when a motion was withdrawn on a certain reason distinctly stated, to record that reason.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. SANKEY said he did not think the expressions of Mr. Ryder yesterday ought to have been entered. The SECRETARY said he deemed them necessary to make the subsequent resolutions understood. The CHAIRMAN said he thought the full particulars of any case that came before the Convention should be fairly and faithfully stated.—(Hear, hear.) The SECRETARY then read a letter from Stourbridge sesiring that further efforts might be made to enlighten the dense population f that district in the principles of the Charter. The following letter was read, dated Birmingham, April 23d—" Although differing with the late Dele gates from this town to the Convention, as to the man ner in which they have given up the trust reposed in them, we cannot suffer the efforts that have been made lately by a few desperate characters, to destroy the con fidence the men of Birmingham have always reposed in the leading men of the Council of their Union to pass unnoticed—men, whose efforts have always been di rected to the best means of obtaining the greatest good they could accomplish, according to the circumstances by which they were surrounded. We beg, therefore, to state that some of this party, in our opinion, have long been endeavouring to sow dissension among the men of Birmingham, by preaching up blood shed and revolution—measures which we hope the good sense of the Convention will never notice till every jt&st 4nd reasonable effort has been tried to ame liorate the condition of the working classes—in order to get themselves placed in the situation of those whose un tiring zeal in the good cause has won for them the appro bation of all reasonable and right-thinking men. We, therefore, beg of you to present to the Convention the enclosed protest against those men entering that Con vention in the name and on the behalf of the men of Birmingham, as we belies e an effort may yet be made, if necessary, to fill up those places with men more worthy tl.e confidence of the town than these are, and more worthy of the assembly to which they are delegated. With our best wishes for the triumphant successof the Conven tion over all its enemies, I remain, in the name and on the behalf of all who have signed the protest, Your obedient servant, - ED WIN THOAIPSON. Tire protest is, " We, the undersigned Members of the Political Union, Collectors of the National Rent, &c. &c., do hereby enter our protest against the admission of Messrs. Brown, Powell, and Donaldson (who are said to be elected at a meeting held at 'Holloway Head), as Delegates to the General Convention, in the name and on behalf of the men of Birmingham, such meeting not being called by any man or body of men recog nised by the people, or any placard bearing the signature of even one of their own Committee, or any ono in whom the men of Birmingham can place any trust, the meeting being attended by scarcely a tithe of what may be called the men of Birming ham, shows they have not had anything to do with the election, and therefore cannot be expected to sup post them. We remain, gentlemen, your most obeiient servants." (Here follow eighty or ninety names.) A placard calling a meeting of the men of Birming ham at No. 7, Sectional-room, the Cross Guns, Lan caster-street, on February 25tb, concluding with these words : " Britons, rise, and yet be free, Demand your rights and liberty ; Tyrants long hare shared the spoil, The working class share all the toil. Now or never strike the blow, Exert yourselves and crush your foe." Letters were read from Great Yarmouth and Salis bury, announcing the formation of Societies in support of the principles of the Convention. Mr. CARDO moved that the Convention resolve i's-lf into a General Committee, to consider the man ner in which the National Petition shall be conveyed to the Members by whom it was to be presented to the House of Commons. Mr. HARTWELL seconded the motion, which, how ever, on the suggestion of several Delegates, was post poned, in order to afford time for communicating with Messrs. Fielden and Attwood. The report of the Petition Committee was presented to the effect that signatures to the National Petition be sent up from all parts of the country as speedily as pos sible, directed to Messrs. Collins end Hartwell, at the Convention, the postage paid. The roport was agreed to, and V. 14s. was handed in from Bristol. The Secretary then read a letter from Wandsworth ; relative to the election of a delegate for that district. Mr. CARDO, WIVI refeTenee to a stritement made on a former day, denied that the Maryiehone men had exanved the proceedings when Mr. Williams was elected. Mr. SKEVINGTON said he had been informed that M. Williams had declined to take his scat, and that tip. people of Wandsworth considered they were in the same position as if no election had taken place. THE PROTEST FRO3I BIRMINGHAM. CARPENTER suggested before they adjourned that some notice should be taken of the protest against :lir recent election of Delegates for Birmingham. M. FuosT said it would be time enough when these parties took their seats. Mr. CARPENTER did not think it would be quite de corous to postpone the consideration of the protest for an indefinite period. Alter some further discussion, it was resolved that the Secretary be instructed to write to the parties by whom the protest had been forwarded to the Con vention. PETITION FOR MR. FROST'3 RESTORATION TO THE MAGISTRAC Y. Mr. PITKEITHLEY had a propcsition to submit to the Convontion relative to the petition to be presented to Parliament praying for an address to the Queen to restore Mr. Frost to the 'Magistracy. It had been suggested when the deputation bad waited upon Mr. Attwood, that it woubl b^ Lnuc'a morn advantageous to have the petition signed by each Member in his indkidual capacity. ra tter than by the Grairman, on behalf of the Convention. Mr. CARPENTER did not think there could be any objection to the petition as it at present stood. The Society of which they were Members could not become tmater of discussion on the mere presentation of a pe titon. Mr. SANKEY submitted that the petition would have more w.eiht if signed by the Members individually. Their body not being a chartered one, the petition could only be received as that of the person by whom it was signed. - Mr. LovErr saw n 3 illegality in &ping the petition as Members of the Convention. In answer to a question from Mr. CARPENTER, Mr. FROST saki Mr. Attwood had declined to present the petition as it at present stood. Mr. CARPENTER then suggested that the petition should not b• altered, and if the House of Commons rejected it in its present shape they could present an other. Mr. COLLINS thought it was idle to be running the risk of acting illegally, and that it would be better to have the petition signed individually. A resolution was ultimately adopted that the petition be signed by the Members of the Convention indi vidually. MR. HETHERINGTON'S MISSION. Mr. FROST was then called to the chair to enable Mr. Hetherington to report the result of his mission to Wales to the Convention. Mr. HETHERINTON thought it better to make his Report to-day, as they would have a good de-1 of basis nesi before them on Monday. He arrived in Belper, Derbyshire, on E titer Sun 1 ty, as he thought it hatter to reach that town a day before the meeting was held, in order to ascertain the state of feeling there, arid become acquainted with the leading men of their party. He boTind litany intriligeut, active and excellent men there. The announcement of the meeting had excited the attention of the Magistrates, and he learned thj Mr. Strutt w ts a little king in the town and its neighbourhood. The Magistrates resolved to swear in 100 special constables, but there was a great reluctance on the part of the Conventionists that the county should be put to so much expense, and late on Saturday night a communication was sent to the Magistrates that they were ready to tender themselves to be sworn in as con stables. The Magistrates were very much pleased to find that there was no disposition to break the peace, but stated that they would rather have men se lected by themselves ; that if there was any ne cessity for their appearance the parties holding the meeting had nothing to do out send for them, and they would act according to their suggestions.—(Hear, hear.) These arrangements were rather favourable to the meeting, but on learning that persons had been sent down from the Convention the Magistrates took the alarm, and an express was sent to Derby for a troop of horse.--(A laugh.) They came, and were kept a mile and a half out of town all day, ready to act if called upon. The meeting was held in the market-place, and about 2,000 persons were present, although Mr. Strutt arid all the large manufacturers kept their mills closed to prevent th e i r men atten di ng . Th e mee ti ng was ad dressede_ by Mr. W oo d war d, o f Nottingham, and M r . 'e king, a working man, and they pledged themselves to suPPort the Convention in all its proceedings, that they might think it wise and prudent to adopt to carry out their objects. At night all the public-houses were closed at teno'el°ek and a p u bli c supper was g i ven t o the Delegat es from the Conventi on the same evening. It ap peared fro m a ll h e had heard and seen, that Mr. Strutt exercised an immense authority t y l i a t t h o 7 town and neigh bour thathis cond uc t was every .ho was resolved to persecute n m petty tyrant, intelligent man who took part in the proceedings o Ithe Convention. He ties. His reply to this was, the production of his in structions from the Convention, by which it would be seen the use of violent language was entirely forbidden, which, together with the manner in which he addressed the meeting on the doctrine of Universal Suffrage, Vote by Ballot, Annual Parliaments, &c., seemed to disabuse these people of their preconceived notions of Charter principles. The meeting was most enthusias tic in its manner and spirit, and the resolutions indica tive of support to the cause of Radicalism were passed with much applause. The Shrewsbury Chronicle gave two columns of the proceedings. The fruits of that meeting was that a vast number of persons joined the National Union, and all who did so were energetic in their desire to obtain -signatures to the National Peti tion, and to contribute to the National Rent.—(Hear, hear.) During the whole of his progress he was highly delighted at the spirit of the people—they were zea lously determined to give their best assistance to the cause of the millions ; and from his past experience he could safely give an opinion on public feeling, he would say he had never seen any body of men more zealous and enthusiastic in their determination to obtain liberty than the working men of the districts through which he he had passed.—(Mr. Hetherington sat down amid loud cheers.) Upon the motion of Mr. Pitkeithley, seconded by Mr. Sankey, the marked thanks of the meeting were given to Mr. Hetherington for his conduct on his late mission to Wales. Passed with acclamation. Mr. Hetherington then resumed the chair, upon which the Secretary proceeded to call over the names. The Assembly then dissolved. would give the Convention one instance of the invete racy of Mr. Strut. A meeting was called on the sub ject of the Corn-laws, and a few stone masons, who were working on the railway in the neighbourhood, at tended. They were intelligent men, and moved amend ments to nearly every resolution that was proposed ; and so equally were the numbers divided, that it was doubtful whether the amendment or the original motion was carried. Mr. Strutt actually followed these stone masons to their work, and endeavoured to have them discharged,but without effect ; and it was a fact that some of his own men, whom be had brought in great numbers to the meeting, and who had expressed their approbation of the sentiments of the stonemasons, and appeared to have been convinced by their arguments, were dis charged.(Cries of " Shame.") That gentleman had caused his factories to be fortified with cannon. All that indicated great fear, and he never saw a man evinciug such fear and taking such precautions in the town where he resided, that it did not turn out that he bad been in the habit of acting oppressively to his work men and dependants. He had gone from Belper to a village about five miles off, where a room had been taken for the purpose of holding a public meeting, but Mr. Strutt sent word to the party to whom the house be longed not to let the room. With great difficulty a room was procured, and he (Mr. H.) had addressed the people, stating the objects of the Convention, the nature of the Petition, and the People's Charter, and a number of persons set their names down in order to form an Association in that village. He was afraid, however, the district was so much under the influence of Mr. Struth that little good could be expected from it. He had thence proceeded on his destination to Stockport, and the next day arrived at Welch pool. He found the same objection existing there as at Belper. Lord Clive was like a king in that town, and the whole of the middle classes were so much influenced that there was hardly a man in it, however much he might be in favour of the views of the Convention, dare avow his sentiments. As an instance of the spirit by which they were actuated he would state that when he and Mr. Jones, another Delegate, and Mr. Powell, were walking through the streets, some of the inhabitants were standing at their doors, and exclaimed loud enough to be heard by them, that three such men ought to have their heads cut off. Now he (Mr. He therington) was satisfied that if they (the Convention alists) had said half as much of any other party, every one would be ready to exclaim, " What a blood-thirsty set they are."--(Hear, hear.) They found it impossi ble to get a place to meet in, and they were threatened with a second Devizes if they met in Welchpool. Seeing that they would be only losing time there, they set their friends at work to organize an association, and promised to visit that town again on their return. They then pro ceeded to Newtown,and there they found almost the whole of the town in their favour—they being all physical force men. It was stated in the Shrewsbury Chronicle that the people were very much dissatisfied that the meeting had not taken place at the time announced, but that was occasioned by their having waited upon Mr. Evans, the principal Magistrate, whom they wished to take the chair. Although the gentleman expressed his anxiety to do anything that would promote the happiness of the working classes, he respectfully declined to take the 1 chair on the ground that it might be objectionable to some parties. The meeting, which was most nume rously attended, was the most enthusiastic he had ever witnessed. The Convention might count upon the men of Newtown supporting them unanimously with funds, and in every other way that it was required. They seemed to think that it must end in a fight, and were preparing to arm very extensively.—( Hear, hear.) He was obliged to state that fact because he had heard while there, that one party bad sent an order to Bir mingham for 300 muskets.—( Hear, hea-.) Another man had been persecuted for having carried on an ex tensive manufactory of pikes in the town, and sub mitted these matters to the Convention, although it was known that he (Mr. H.) was a moral force man. From thence they had proceeded to Llanidloes, and he had ascertained that 600 men were enrolled in the Association there, one half of whom were well armed and all determined to stand by one another to the last. —(Cheers.) It was also a fact that at a small village near it one hundred able bodied men had entered the union, and some of them stated to him that they con sidered the affixing of their signatures in the same light as the shilling which the recruit received when entering the King'sservice,and that it enlisted them in the army of liberty. The Welsh people were timid, and reli gious, and if they could only be inspired with the same en thusiasm in politics as they felt in religion, they would be a most valuable accession to the Convention. They were men who would walk miles, and make any sacrifices in order to uphold what they considered their rights. The physical force men in that district, he believed, could turn out 600 armed men.—(Renewed cheering.) He had repeated to them the instructions he had re ceived from the Convention, that he was bound to dis courage every thing illegal, and to counsel them to confine themselves to moral exertions for the recovery of the rights of the people. In order to show how well these men were knit tog, ther, on one or two occasions, when there was a strike, the windows of several factories were broken, and although a reward of 3001. was offered, the parties who did it were never discovered. On 1 another occasion, a Poor-law Commissioner came into Ithe district, and the people said he should rot remain, but he said he would, and the next night his gig was put over the bridge and smashed to pieces. The parties were never discovered. A Policeman, from London, was sent down there, and one night they half killed him, npon which he said he would stop there no longer. Really he thought them a very honest, good people—(Roars of laughter)—beceuse they set their 1 faces altogether against bad measures.—(Renewed laughter.) He did not like to go much further info Wales, because he found that the further he went the less English was spoken, and the more difficulty he ex perienced in relishing their local eloquence. They had afterwards visited Rhyader in Radnorshire, and unfor tunately there was a small Baptist chapel to be opened the day of the meeting—they had two full days of that chapel opening.--(A laugh.) One service ended at four, and the next commence i at six, so they had only two hours to get up the meeting and address Lhe panple. The clergyman, however, very liberally, permitted them to announce the meeting in the chapel, and the second service was put off for about an hour.—( Hear, hear.) The same thin g had been done by Mr. Williams at Llanidloes, and he had also announced a series of four lectures on the People's Charter.—( fir ar, and cheers.) Oa their return to Newtown, they found that the Shrewebuey Chronicle ha I been making a violent attack upon them. A meeting was held the same night, which was extremely crowded ; in fact, be (Mr. 1 - .1.) could scarcely get into the room, and all the passages were crowded by persons who could not obtain admit tance.—(Hear.) Resolutions were passed, declaring the statements in the Shrewsbury Paper to be false. He then proceeded toWelchpool, where, on b-ing, intro duced to some of the Reformers of the place, thee , proceeded to get up a requisition to the Mayor to con vene a public meeting, which requisition being nume rously and respectably signed, they had presented to that functionary, who positively refused convening the meeting.—(Hear, hear.) They then engaged the public club room of the place in order to hold one without the authority of the Mayor ; but as soon as lie found out that this was so, he sent for the landlord of the room and threatened him with every possible vengeance that might come in his power to inflict if be should give them the use of the room for the evening. Those threats had sufficient influence on the landlord to in duce him to withdraw the consent he had given, upon which, as many of the labouring classes, who were collected in the streets in great numbers, were cla mouring for a meeting, he consented to address them in the market-place. Here, again, they were disappointed. No sooner was it known to the Tory party that we should assemble in the Market-place than they said they would proceed to any extremity sooner than allow us to meet ; apprehending from this that a similar attack as the one at Devizes might be made, he (Mr. Hetherington) prudently desisted from going on with the meeting then, but had notice given that one should take place at the " Rock," an open space outside the town. The state of feeling engendered in the neighbourhood at this con tinued opposition of the Tories was raised to the highest pitch of excitement. Newtown and others of the villages offered to send in to assist us bands of armed men in flannel jackets.—(Hear and cheers.) This was de clined, as he (Mr. Hetherington) told those persons that they were sent by the Convention to instruct the people as to the great truths of the Charter principles in peace and good-will, and that he was against anything that would lead to bloodshed. The assembly at the Rock was very numerous, and very enthusiastic in their ap plause of the principle which was explained to them—but before he had been speaking one quarter of an hour, they found the Tories had ensconsed themselves on a shelf of the rock commanding the position, where the Assembly was congregated, and had commenced tum bling stones down on the people, one of which struck a respectable female, who had been present from curi osity.—(Hear, hear.) He did his best to restrain the people from executing on those miscreants summary vengeance, and was so far successful—in as much as that they were only throwu down from the precipice, and then allowed to escape from the enraged multitude.— _ __.. ..._ _ _ _ . (Hear, hear.) After this the Meeting got on in the THE CROPS.—Accounts from various parts o most favourable manner for the cause of the Convention, the country, as to the appearance of the growing crops, al. and the people all testifying the greatest anxiety in the concur in stating that the young wheats are looking strong success of the Charter, and all equally determined to an d healthy, affording the prospect of an abundant harvest, support it. Towards its close many of the: middle should the weather continue favourable. classes, who were afraid to be seen assisting in the day- AN OVERSEER'S EXCUSE.—At Worship-street light, were there, and were also very warm in their manifes- on Wednesday, Mr. R. Wilks, vestry clerk of the parish of tations of assi s t anee .—(H ear , and cheers.) He then got St. Luke, attended with the list of overseers nominated by to Shrew s b ur y, w h ere t h ey also got up a meeting, the vestry for the purpose of their appointment being certi although every exertion had b een use d by the Tory fled by the Magistrates. Mr. R. London, whose name was party in that great Tory town to prevent one.—(Hear, on the list, pleaded his inability to administer the Poor hear.) However the expressed determination of the law, alleging that he had not sufficient nerve to carry the working men to wreak vengeance on any one who provisions of the Act into effect. The appellant produced should oppose the holding of it, had had its desired effect, for there it was helSwithout being opp osed. He a certificate from the family physician, in which it was stated that he was subject to a nervousness which rendered j he incapable f of any fi d exert h ion, and The nattacked w no it t hit was told by persons there connected with the Press to al restrain himself from the use of the habitual violent ewewdas;4)rten Broughtoncon ne ato e lowed, remarking m . that e all excusem en w w a e s r e more language which the Chartists made use of; as that town , l e or less nervous, and that exercise would do the gentleman being nearly all composed of Tories, the use of su c h goo d. The appellant said he would rather pay the tine language might draw on them the notice of the Whorl- 1 than serve. WIGAN ELECTION COMMITTEE The Committee met yesterday at the usual hour, and the scrutiny was proceeded with until four o'clock, when both parties were equal on the poll. There were only two votes decided yesterday. LAW INTELLIGENCE. HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIL 25. The House sat to-day to hear Scotch appeals. The Lords in attendance were, the Lord Chancellor, the Earl of Cornwallis, and the Earl of Mayo. FRASER V. CARNEGIE. This case came before the House upon appeal from the decision of the Court of Session, declaring the ap pellent bound to cancel a deed for securing to himself 2,500/. It appeared that the appellant was the law agent of a person named Tyffe, whose affairs were very much involved. In that character, according to his own statements, he made large advances to Mr. Tyffe, to secure which the deed in question was obtained. On the part of the respondent it was said, that the ap pellent was not entitled to the deed, and that it had been improperly obtained by him. Upon this case coming on before the Court of Session, that Court ordered the reduction of the deed, and from that deci sion the present appeal was brought. Mr. BUCHANNAN appeared for the appellant. Mr. STUART was Counsel for the respondent. The LORD CHANCELLOR, without calling upon Mr. Stuart to address their Lordships, gave judgment affirming the decision of the Court of Session, with costs. COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH, APRIL 25. STOCKDALE V. HANSARD. This was an action against the defendant for having published a libel on the plaintiff in the report of the Inspectors of Prisons. The defendant pleaded that the report was printed by him in his official capacity as printer to the House of Commons, and the case now came before the Court on demurrer. Mr. CURWOOD and Mr. CARRINGTON appeared for the plaintiff. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL and Sir F. POLLOCK for the defendant. The argumwi.3, which commenced on Tuesday, oc cup edthe whole of Wednesday, and at half-past two yesterday, at the conclusion of the Attorney-General's address, the further hearing of the arguments was postponed till next term. COURT OF EXCHEQUER, ArazL 25. IN RE TILE CANADIAN PRISONERS. (Continued fom our First Edition of yesterday.) Mr WIGHTMAN apprehended not, and further he con. tended that our colonies, all owing allegiance to the Crown could not be called foreign countries. But take the con •erse of the points made by his Learned Friend. If the Courts here were not to take Canadian laws into consider ation, so the Canadian Courts, on the same principle, would not be bcund to take anynotice of English laws; but would they contend that if a convict ship were to put into a Canadian port, would theCahadian Courts grant a habeas corpus, and discharge the prisoners? He apprehended not. The Learned Gentleman then brought under the notice of the Court the statute regulating transpor tation, and concluded by saying that he had no authorities to cite—he had no Acts of the British Legislature, giving the Co!onies power to transport : they had, however, always recognised that power, which had 'been often done. A.t alCevents, even though the Court should he of opinion that the return was not suf ficient, they were bound to return the prisoners totheplace they came from, and let them be dealt with according to the laws they had confessed they had broken in a very heinous degree. Mr. HILL then replied, and went over nearly all of the arguments he had formerly ❑sed. He contended, even were the return held sufficient, still it was a principle of the English law that no man could consent to his own transportation, therefore the supposed contract was void. He contended that the C+ own had no power to impose a lesser punishment without the consent of the prisoner, and that given after the conviction of the party. This was an attempt to force upon the Court the laws of the Legislature of Canada which they would defeat. Lord ABINGER—The Queen i 3 the Sovereign of Canada as well as of England and Van Diemen's Land. Had she not then the power to carry out the sen tence of her Courts in any of these countries ? Mr. 11. said the pardon in this case was not given under the Prerogative of the Crown—which could not be communicated to any Lieut.-Governor--it was under an Act of Parliament of the Legislature of the Province, which had no power out of tl,e Province, as was shown by the Act of Indemnity, which had been rendered necessary by the Proclamation which had been issued by Lcrd Durham, and which had been pronounced illegal ia their places in Parliament by the Lord Chancellor, the Solicitor-General, and others. Lord ABINGER said it was not usual to quote the speeches of any one in Parliament as precedents in law. Mr. HlLL—lie was merely usin. , them, to show that the laws of Upper Canada had no force out of it. There was nothing on the face of the return to show that the parties had been guilty of any sufficient crime to justify such a punishment as trans portation for life. He contended that the return was bad on the face of it, as it gave no show of warrants from the Lieutenant-Governor of Upper Canada to the person who made the return, and if it was bad in one instance it was a mere piece of waste paper. He said that in this country nothing was done with a prisoner without a written warrant, and surely the same principle was at least necessary in matters connected with the life or liberty of the subject in the colonies. He hoped that _he, and his Learned Friends, had satisfied the Court that the prisoners then before them, were entitl(ll to their discharge. The LORD CHIEF BARON, after complimenting the whole of the Counsel engaged in the cause for the able manner in which it had been argued, said the Court would take time to consider their judgment. THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, APRIL 26, 1.431-). MAYNOOTH COLLEGE. A meeting took place yesterday at Exeter Hall, to hear an expose of the doctrines taught in Maynooth College, and to petition Parliament against the annual grant to that institution. The Hall was crowded with a very respectable audience. Lord KENYON took the Chair, and on the platform were Mr. Plumptre, M. P., Mr. G. Finch, Col. Verner, M.P., and others, of Conservative politics. The Rev. J. M'GnEE, in proposing a resolution con demnatory of the College at Maynooth, made a speech of several hours, in which he entered, at great length, into the various class-books of the College, which be affirmed taught, that oaths with heretics might be disre. guarded, if contrary to utility or the interests of the Church. He said that the Popo had disapproved of the oath which was imposed as a security to the Protestant Church on the Roman Catholic Members; and that per. jury was branded on their brow by all honest Englishmen. He went on to assert, quoting from different books read at the College, that the Popish doctrines was, that all here tics who had been baptised were under the dominion of the Church, and even liable to be punished for their heresy. After addressing the audience with great rage and fury for three hours, the Rev. Gentleman moved a resolution to the effect that the education at Maynooth was sufficient to acccount for all the degradation of Irish Roman Catbo. lies, and that the annual grant voted by Parliament for that purpose ought to be discontinued. Dr. O'SULLIVAN seconded the motion, when thanks were voted to the Noble Chairman, and the meeting broke up. All persons who entered the Hall had to take a ticket, on which was printed, " The Person holding this ap. proves of the Object of the Meeting." IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, APRIL 25. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY took his seat on the Wool- , sack at ten minutes before Five o'Clock. The Bill on the Table were forwarded a stage. Sir G. STRICKLAND and others brought up several private Bills from the House of Commons. Lord RADNOR presented petitions from Throg morton-street and several other places, in favour of the penny postage. Lord WHARNCLIFFE presented a petition from a place in Lancashire, against any national system of education not in connexion with the Established Church. The Duke of RUTLAND presented a petition against any alterations in the Corn-laws. A NOBLE LORD presented a petition from Yarbo rough and Horncastle, praying for the adoption of a penny postage. Lord ALBEMARLE presented a petition from St. Lawrence, in favour of the adoption of a penny postage ; also a petition from the bankers, shipowners, and others of Great Yarmouth to the same effect. The:Earl of SH AFTESBURY:presented a petition in favour of a protection in the Church in the Colonies. The Duke of RICHMOND gave notice that to morrow he should move for certain returns of prisons which in his opinion would show the great importance of having a uniform and efficient administration of the cri minal laws of the country. It had been usual for Ma gistrates to commit prisoners for trial to adjourned ses sions in counties, for very small offences. In the course of the last Assizes for the county of Sus sex, the Judge who went on the Assizes discharged certain prisoners because of the absence of witnesses who had been bound over to appear at the subsequent Quarter Sessions. Great inconvenience must arise from discharging persons who had been committed for small offences without trial, and he (the Noble Duke) thought that an Act of Parliament ought to be brought in for making uniform the practice of Magistrates. Lord BROUGHAM quite agreed with his Noble Friend as to the discrepancy of the law upon this point, and that nothing could be worse than that discrepancy. At the same time he (Lord Brougham) rather thought that it would be found, from what he had collected, that the Learned Judge could not have done otherwise than he did. The Duke of RICHMOND said that in this in stance there was only one gaol in the county, and the Assizes were held at the House of Correction. The witnesses in question were bound over to appear and prosecute at the Quarter Sessions. Lord ABINGER said as he was the Judge who had been alluded to he might be permitted to make a few observations. The duty of the Magistrates was to commit prisoners in such manner that they might take their trial as speedily as possible after commitment. If Magistrates had power to commit over an Assizes to an adjourned Quarter Sessions, they might commit from one adjourned Sessions to another for six months. The general rule was that the Judge should discharge the gaol, particularly of all the prisoners whose names were in the Calendar. In this instance the name of the prisoner was is the Ca lendar; hewas called up by proclamation,and he felt bound to discharge him. He thought it would be very convenient if the Noble Duke would take this opportunity of bring ing in a Bill to govern the practice, leaving no discretion to the Judges whatever. The Duke of RICHMOND said on this occasion there was a difference of fact between tire Noble and Learned Lord and himself. According to the informa tion which he (the Noble Duke) had received, the pri soners to whom he alluded were not in the custody of the Sheriff at all, but in the custody of the keeper of the House of Correction, and his motion was for a re turn of those only whose names were not in the Calen dar. His object was, that there should be a uniform rule. The Noble Duke finished by saying that he wished the discussion to come on to-morrow, on moving for the returns. Lord DENMAN said there was a difference of opinion on the subject, and the Noble Duke would do great service to his country by bringing in a Bill to settle the question. EGYPT. Lord BROUGHAM wished to put a question rela tive to the relations between Turkey and Mehe met Ali. The Noble Viscount at the head of her Majesty's Government had on a former occasion stated that the policy of this country would be to preserve strict neutrality towards both parties, and if possible, .to maintain peace between them. But he had lately received information direct from Alexandria, from which it would appear that certain British officers had entered into the Turkish service ; a fact which to the untutored eyes of the Pacha and his Ministers seemed like a violation of neutrality on our part. Lord MELBOURNE said it was true that some British naval officers had agreed to enter into the ser vice of the Sublime Porte, and were in Constantinople ; but he did not consider it any violation of that neutrality which it was the intention of the Government to pre serve between the parties.—(Hear, hear.) The British Ambassador at Constantinople had lately received strict instructions to act in union with the Ambassadors of other countries, to maintain peace between Mehe met Ali and the Porte.—(Hear.) Lord BROUGHAM said nothing could be more satisfactory than the explanation of his Noble Friend, which he was glad he had given his Noble Friend an opportunity of making. The Earl of ABERDEEN gave notice that he should to-morrow present an important petition from the Colony of Newfoundland, to which he requested the particular attention of the Noble Secretary for the Colonies. _ The Marquis of BUTE presented a petition from Dumbarton against any additional grant to the Church of Scotland. Lord RODEN presentAl a petition against any fur ther grant to the College of Maynooth. On the motion of the Earl of SHAFTESBURY, the Report on the Deanery of Exeter Bill was brought up. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, APRIL 25. The SPEAKER took the Chair shorty before Four o'Clock. - - - Mr. PRA ME presented a petition from Lord Ha therton, against the Birmingham Extension Railway Bill. Mr. PEASE presented a petition from the St. George's Steam Packet Company, against tl.e Brazilian Steam Packet Company's Bill. The Witham Drainage Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. HAWKES presented a petition from the Bi shop of Exeter, against the South Eastern Railway Bill. Mr. KEMBLE presented a similar petition from a person in Surrey. Captain BERKELEY presented a petition from o prta l ge ; Bristol in favour of a Penn and live petitions from Bristol, complaining of Elec t the present system of Registering Parliamentary tors, and praying the House to appoint a Select Committee to inquire how far it might be possible to amend the system. Mr. LITTON presented atnion from Kilmore, county Down, stating that the Roman Catholic College of Maynooth, has proved a greatsource of seditious turbulence and religious discord in Ireland, and praying. the House to withhold any furth er grant a that insti tution. The Hon. Member also presentedpetition from a place in the county of Londonderry, against the present system of National Education ; and several petitions against the Irish Municipal Reform Bill, one of which, from the officers of the Corporation of Dublin, prayed for compensation in the event of the Bill passing. Also two petitions from certain Presbyterian congre gations in Ireland, complaining of Presbyterian sol diers being obliged to attend the service of the Es tablished Church; and praying that they may be per mitted to attend Divine Service at their own places of worship, and that where the number of Presbyterian soldiers in a regiment is considerable, a Presbyterian chaplain may be appointed. Mr. HAWES presented several petitions in favour of a penny postage. Lord DUNGANNON presented a petition from the Clergy of the Archdeaconry of Durham against the Bill founded on the Fourth Report of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners ; also from a parish in the county of Durham against any alienation of the revenues of that see ; from some place in Denbighshire, complaining of ' spiritual destitution of the Church in Canada ; another, prayin g that no alienation of the revenues of the Welsh dioceses may take place, but that they may be applied to the augmentation of small livings in North Wales ; and several petitions against any scheme of national education not in connection with the Established Church. Mr. C. DUNDAS presented a petition from Wilt shire in favour of a uniform rate of penny postage. Sir G. CLERK presented a petition from the Edin burgh and Leith Glass Company, complaining of the oppressive nature of the Excise regulations, and praying redress ; also petitions from parishes in Edinburgh, Bute, and Rothsay, in favour of Church Extension in Scot. land. Mr. LOCKHART presented two petitions to the same effect. Mr. EASTHOPE presented eight petitions from different congregations of Protestant Dissenters in Leicester, complaining of the impr isonment of David Jones an d M r . Thorougood, for refusing to pay Church rates. The petitioners stated that such proceedings were disgraceful to the present age—that they were worthy of the darkest periods of spiritual tyranny, an d an outrage upon the feelings and consciences of the Dissenters.—( Hear, hear.) Petitions were presented by Sir H. PARNELL and Mr. BARING, in favour of a uniform rate of penny postage. Sir ROBERT INGLIS presented petitions in sup port of the Established Church in Canada. Dr. LUSH INGTON presented a petition from the Tower Hamlets in favour of Mr. R. Hill's plan of postage. Mr. PHILPOTTS presented a petition from the Mayor and Corporation of Gloucester to the same effect. Mr. STAN LEY presented eight petitions from pa rishes i n A ng l esea, pray i ng t h a t in any change in tie distribution of C " . i.ch property there, tt may not be withdrawn from them,. but might be applied to the aug mentation of small livings in the Island. Mr. PAKINGTON presented several petitions praying for protection to the Church in Canada. Mr. COMPTON presented a petition against the present system of licensing houses for the sale of beer, in Hampsi&e. LITHOGRAPHED PETITIONS. Mr. WOOD said. he had been instructed by the Public Petition Committee to inform the House that they had met with several petitions which had been lithographed. They svere of opinion that they came under the same rule as those printed in letter-press. The Committee were desirous of having the directions of the House upon the subject. Sir G. CLERK could not see any difference in principle between a lithographed and a printed peti tion. He thought the same rule was applicable to both, as neither could be considered as the spontaneous act of the petitioners. Mr. WARBURTON could not see the common sense of excluding even printed petitions.—(Cheers.) It was folly to suppose that they were less the spon tnaeous acts of those who signed them, because they were printed or lithographed. Let them look at the number of petitions which were received on the subject of slavery. They were the act of some indivi duals who took the trouble to send them down to all parts of the country.—(Hear, hear.) When they had manuscript petitions couched in the same words, and flowing in in such abundance, he did not see why the House should draw a distinction between a petition that was lithographed and one that was written. He could not see any objection to receiving lithographed petitions, and he trusted that the day was not far distant when their reception would form a precedent for receiv ing printed petitions also. Lord STANLEY was decidedly against the House receiving lithographed petitions, as there could be no doubt that a great many persons were ignorant and careless of what those petitions contained. He thought it was a great abuse of the right of petitioning, to get up petitions, then to have them lithographed, and sent all over the country. He thought the rule of the House not to receive printed petitions was founded in justice and sound sense. Mr. HUME said that the only means to make peo ple understand petitions was to have them printed.— (Hear, hear.) For his own part he advised every per son who had a long petition to have it printed, in order that all Hon. Members might be cognizant of its contents. He hoped another Session would not pass away before the ridiculous notion of not receiving printed petitions ways done away with, and the Acts of that House, instead of being written in black letter, which nobody could read, would be legibly printed. The SPEAKER thought that some decision ought to be come to by the House on the subject. Perhaps some Hon. Gentleman would think it right to bricg forward a special motion relative to it. After a few observations from Mr. HUME, Mr. G. W. WOOD give notice that he should call the attention of the House to the subject on Tuesday next. Mr. MARK PHILLIPS presented a petition from the Manchester Literary Society, in favour of a penny postage. Sir R. PEEL presented similar petitions from Ches ter and several other places ; also a petition in favour of the Stone and Rugby Railway Bill. Mr. BROTHERTON brought up the report of the Committee on the Worksop and Kelham Road Bill. Lord DUNGANNON gave notice that on the 9th May he should move for a Committee to inquire into the state of the Roman Catholic College of Maynooth. Mr. CRES WELL gave notice that on the 7th of May he should call the attention of the House to the petition presented some time ago from the Merchants of Liverpool, and moved for certain papers. JOINT STOCK BANKS. Mr. HUME wished to ask whether the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer was pre pared to bring forward any measure respecting Joint stock Banks ; if so, at what time? Also, whether he intended to bring forward any measure respecting the Bank of Ireland. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was understood to reply, that in the course of next fertnight he should be able to give a satisf.►ctory reply to the question. Mr. HUME gave notice that on this day fortnight he should bring forward a motion for inquiring into the proceedings of the Bank of England. Mr. GIBSON gave notice that Tuesday week he should bring in a Bill to prevent persons from losing their votes at elections in consequence of removal.— (Hear, hear.) _ _ JAMAICA. Sir R. PEEL wished to give notice of the course which he intended to pursue on Monday next, in the event of her Majesty's Government proceeding with the Bill for the Suspension of the House of Assembly in Jamaica. lie thought it much better to take the sense of the House on the question of the Speaker leaving the chair than on any subordinate point in Committee. Entertaining the opinion which he expressed the other night, that it would be necessary to make provision for any future contingency in case the House of Assembly should not proceed in their functions, he should take the sense of the House, in the event of the Bill being proceeded with oa Moncla.y next.—( Hear, hear.) DANISH CLAIMS. Mr. CRESWELL said that on the Ist of March a Report was presented of the Commissioners of Danish ClAims. He wished to ask whether that was the only Report the House was to expect in consequence of the vote of last year. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was understood to say that before lie took any further steps in ihe matter, the House must determine whether they would entertain the case at all, and vote crone) , for satis fying these claims. Mr. CRESWELL said that, on the occasion of a former address in nearly the same terms, on this sub ject, the Treasury Minister stated that the Committee bad examined, adjudicated, and reported, and he should like to know why a similar course should not be pur sued in this instance. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the circumstances of the two cases were very different. Sir C. STYLE versa understood to ask if any mea sures had been adopted, to endeavour to procure re•pay ment of advances made to the Ecclesiastical Commis sion ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER'S answer was inaudible in the gallery. Mr. M. GIBSON postponed the motion, of which he had given notice for the return of despatches from the British Mission at Copenhagen, relative to the duties and fees imposed by Denmark upon the transit of goods between Hamburg and Lubeck. MESSRS. FOURDRINIER'S CLAIMS. Mr. I'. ATTWOOD presented a petition from Bir mingham, in favour of claims of Messrs. Fourdrinier, who had saved the country 80,0001., but had ruined themselves. Similar petitions were presented by the O'CoNoR DON and Mr. G. W. WOOD. Mr. MA CKINNON regretted that it had fallen to his lot to come forward on the present occasion, and wished the question had been in the hands of some one of greater experience, but he thought it right w state to the House that the position in which he was placed had forced him to bring this question forward. In 1836 a Committee had been appointed to investi gate the claims of Messrs. Fourdrinier. He had been placed on that Committee by the Right Hon. Gentle man opposite, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, of which Committee he had been appointed Chairman. He was utterly unacquainted with the subject at the time, and had never heard of the names of Messrs. Fourdrinier. The Committee met, and drew up a Report, which was presented to the House, to which the Speaker took an objection because the word compensation was used in that Report. He would call the attention of the House to this point, because, in a Report which was presented to the House in the year 1832, not only the word " com pensation," but the expression " pecuniary compensa tion" was made use of. He mentioned this to show, that if the Report of 1836 was objectionable it was no fault of his—that it was so because there had been a precedent previously established for pursuing such a course. It might be said that Messrs. Fourdririer were not the inventors of this plan, but although they were not the inventors, yet it had been brought by them to such a degree of perfecti on as to enable the co un t ry t o benefit by the discovery. The merits of an invention, it was admitted, did not belong so much to the individual by whom the discovery was originally made as to the party by whom it was applied to the advantage of the community. The House was probably aware that, previously to the dis covery in question, paper was made by the hand, and the process was both tedious and expensive. The machinery invented by Messrs. Froudrinier was of a very complicated nature, but by it paper could be made, without manual intervention of any length, to the extent of several thousand yards in one continuous piece. It might be asked how had they lost the benefit of this patent? It appeared that they had expended a great portion of their capital in bringing the machine to perfection. Many attempt* were made to pirate it, and they were involved in litigation. An action was brought by the Messrs. Fourdrinier, and they obtained a verdict ; but on an application to the Court of King's Bench, Lord Tenter den granted a new trial, merely because the word" machine" instead of " machines" was inserted in the patent. Their funds were by that time exhausted, having expended upwards of forty thousand pounds in the invention, and they ere unable to defend their rights any longer. It was the opinion of the Counsel of Messrs. Fourdrinier, that ifitbey had had funds they would have succeeded in obtaining a new trial, but for want of them they lost it. The boon to the public by the invention had been immense. Every trade and every department of science and the arts had been benefited by it. In the Potteries it had been shown that but for the invention of Messrs. Fourdrinier it would have been nnpossibie to have brought china to such perfection as I it had been. Mr. Brunel, the eminent engineer, con sidered the invention one of the most splendid of the present age ; and Me. Lawson, of the Times news paper, had given similar testimony. TLe invention of Messrs. Fourdrinier was such, that all risk and labour was avoided by it. In 1800 there were no machines • in existence, and the duty then received amounted to only 193,533/. In 1821 the amount of duty had risen to 579,8671., and in 1835 the duty had risen to 833,8321. He did not mean for a moment to say, that had machinery not been in vented the duty would not have increased progressively, but he would say that, without the aid of the machines, it would have been perfectly impossible that it could hive risen in the extraordinary manner that it had. From 1830 to 1835, the absolute gain to the com munity amounted to 6,000,000/., and the increase in the Revenue not less than 500,000/. a-year. Ile hoped that he would not be opposed on this occa sion by the Government of her Majesty. They could not refuse to remunerate Messrs. Fourdrinier, otherwise they must refuse to remunerate any inventor in future, which. would be a great detriment to the community generally, and upon the same principle the country had been injured to the amount which had been paid to former inventors. He did not wish to occupy the time of the House upon that question. He would, there fore, move that the report of the Committee on Messrs. Foudrinier's Bill be taken into consideration. Mr. HUME apprehended that the Hon. Member ought to move that the House go into Committee of the whole House upon the question on an Addrov, or something of that sort. The House could not come to a resolution on that motion. The SPEAKER considered that it would be neces sary to move the House into Committee previous to any step being taken. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had certainly understood from those who had waited upon him that no money vote was to be asked for on the present occasion. He fully concurred in the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. Mr. MACKINNON said that he would adopt the suggestion, and move for a Committee of the whole House. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not there to deny in any shape the merits of the in vention of Messrs. Fourdrinier which had been of great benefit to the public at large, and also to the revenue of the country—(Hear, hear)—but it by no means followed that he was entitled to pecuniary compensa tion from that House. There was no subject upon which the House was bound to:exercise a greater discre tion than in money grants. The mere question of the ingenuity of the invention would not give the party the claim upon the bounty of that House, and he did not think the present case formed any exception to the general rule upon that subject. He was one who thought it right that rewards should be given for merit, but it behoved the House to exer cise the power they had to give those rewards with cau tion, otherwise they would give a premium to applica tions for pecuniary grants. He was willing to consent to the present motion, and after the opinion of the House had been expressed upon this subject, he would state what course her Majesty's Ministers intended to pursue. Lord F. EGERTON thought that Government gene rally had drawn the lire of reward for merits with great severity. The circumstances of the case presented a con siderable ground for the indulgence of this House in this particular instance. The petitions he had received from his neighbourhood in favour of the present claim were very numerous. He thought the liberality of the Govern ment ought to be extended to it, and he should have great satisfaction in taking his share of the responsibility of any measure %%bleb might be brought forward fur the purpose. Mr. M. PHILLIPS would do all in his power on all occasions, to protect the public purse against any in cursions of private feeling or private friendship ; but having been a Member of the Committee to which the case of Messrs. Fourdrinier was referred, he must say he never saw a stronger case made out for the indulgent liberality of the Government. The improvement in the manufacture of paper by this invention was very ana logous to the improvement that had taken place in calico printing. The invention had afforded a great EVE' NT( VD IT I 0 _ benefit to all the community, and his constituents as cumstances to grant a compensation. well as himself had taken a great interest in it. Th e Mr. PRYME, as a Member of the Committee, circumstances of the case were most peculiar, and he sidered these gentlemen as martyrs to the Patent ! L t d did not think this commercial country would do its duty which he hoped to see soon altered. No one ohJ ec w ee to talented individuals, if it did not render assistance on to this vote but the Right Hon. Baronet opposite , per this occasion. took an unfair opportunity of attacking the G ° ,, lc i i bt Mr. WARBURTON perceived, from the papers ment. In alluding to soldiers and sailors, the 'ilee which had been circulated on this subject, that this Honourable Baronet had forgotten the case °I t o patent had fallen into the hands of the assignees of Duke of Wellington, who received a specific grant en. Messrs. Fourdrinicr, who bad become bankrupt. The that House for professional services. He should aur inventor had not been a gainer, it was true, by the port the grant. patent ; but then the proprietors, the assignees, had Mr. GALLY KNIGHT, although entirelYgsir ig u b t been losers ; and was it equitable that compen s ation scribing to the general doctrine laid down by th e ; ..e s should be granted to the inventor, no part of whi c h Hon. Bart„ thought these gentlemen had establiPLidi Ebould go to the assignees. He thought that in this in- legitimate claim to compensation, the refusal of stance there was a divided interest between Messrs. would not be economy but ingratitude. Fourdrinier and their assignees, and he doubted much Mr. MACKINNON would ask whether this dille tl x 9. , whether Messrs. Fourdrinicr could come forward and sion was to go on, or whether the Chancellor of the e. claim compensation f or t h emse l ves . che q uer w o u ld y i e ld to t h e genera l w i s h o f t h e 11 111, Mr. BAINES said th at t h e H on . G ent l eman w h o Th e CHANCELLOR o f the EXCHEQ'an had just sat down had omitted to mention that it was would appeal to his conduct for the last four ye a rs as, by prosecuting this invention that Messrs. Fourdrinier answer to the accusations that bad been brought aga` l3 "4 had become bankrupts. They h a d, h owever , p a id 20 s. him, but he th oug ht thi s a pecu li ar cas e, ti e 'a in . the pound to every creditor exce pt one , an d th e as - wished to hear no t on l y w h at cou ld be urgesslgnees could have no merit in the invention. This had by deputations in Downing-street, which ' fo, been incomparably the most i m p or t an t i nven ti on th a t all party d e p u t a ti ons , b u t i n t h e H ouse o f Coun — i it had ever been applied to the makir ' e of paper, and by where every thing was urg e d on b o th s id e s ; lie thouger which paper was made cheaper and cheaper every day, the object would be b es t a tt a i ne d by l e avin g the ° t e while the inventors had been overthrown by the expense tion in the hands of th e G overnmen t, a nd befereeeiild of working the invention. end of the Session he would take ca r e the House s "" Mr. HUME entirely concurred with the Chancellor be informed that had been d one i n this matter.it of the Exclieque rin the necessity there existed to guard Mr. 'MACKINNON would now admit that - against such applications as this for remuneration. No would not be the most respectful course to te °s t ee man came forward with a plan which he did not believe to Committee of the whole House, and then cons iaer t ee be of the first importance both to himself and to the propriety of addressing her Majesty to grai lt fec tly State. What his Hon. Friend behind him (Mr. War- Messrs. Fourdrinier compensation. He was Per G er burton) had observed deserved consideration. On more satisfied with the assurance of the Right 11°°' Go' occasions, however, than one, this H ou s e had sane- tlemen, that the case should be taken into his ° o r tioned pensions for inventions—(Hear)—and this deration, and that a proper remuneration from th e fie claim was better supported by evidence than any he vernment might be expected for those gent l e rnen fi • or ,) bad ever recollected to h ave seen . Th ere w as n o t a therefore should at once withd raw hi s mo tion.---( 11 great consumer of paper who did not testify to the Motion withdrawn. TS• great advantage derived from this invention, and when INFERIOR ECCLESIASTICAL COU R ' die the individuals who were the authors of it were in Mr. HAWES rase pursuant to notice to dt 3 3 o : e ee poverty, sonic relaxation of rules might be admissable. attention of the H ouse t o th e petition of Danie l to This was a c a se i n which the Government, be thought, now iu Carmarthen gaol, and to move that, accorna, might very fairly take into consideration the clai m the recommendation of the Ecclesiastical Commiss:ont; iO for ingenuity, a nd if that were to be in the shape of the jurisdiction of the Minor Ecclesiastical Csi ur a nd a pension, from the information he bad received there England and Wales be abolished w ithout del t ,aY' ve ss) would be no great prospect of that pension having to transfered to the inferior tribunals. He (Mr. P, it' be continu e d f o r a ny great length of time. was about to make some statements i n volving ° e er Sir ROBERT PEEL regretted the course that b a d meter of individuals in high stations. He should, th ol been pursued by the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the fore, be careful that his opinions should rest on fa cts :i f ilr present occasion. The Constitution bad wisely en - lected as carefully as possible. If he were corre c trusted the d e t e r m ination of such a qu es ti on as t hi s to formed, a more flagrant case of oppre ss i o n had Sea 1 ; the the Government of the country, and it would have been ever come before the House than that detailed ,'" JO' i much better if the Chancellor of the Exchequer bad petitioner ; and though it would be most difficul t "' o ffer said either that upon an enlarged v i ew o f t hi s quest i on with the individual hardships of the petitioner, orPheeo he cculd not consent to the claim, or that, on the other compensation for the wrong and injury that ha u ee tice hand, from th e ex t ra ordinary nature or merits of the inflicted on him, at least it was likely that th e lbi s case it was an instance in which some reward should be now about to be taken of the facts of the cas e I "fiee d given. Instead of that the Right Hon. Gentleman House, would induce the public to ke e p their eY es ts ,sod had said h e wo u ld h ea r the preliminary discussion first, on the proceedingsof the Minor Ecclesiastical Co ur t t bef and then he would reserve to himself the right of con- if !heir jurisdiction were not a lt oge th er abolishe u to t he sidering its merits. Why he (Sir R. Peel) would von- might at least be prevented from exercising the nj oo ot ° lure to say that th e Ri g ht Hon. Gentleman w ou ld fi n d cruel exte n t o f w hi c h t h e pet i t i oner h a d so muchf e ' e tter a very large majority of that House in fa vour o f t h e complai n . Fi rs t, h e (M r . H.) wou ld di rec t the 00 e ; claim, as he wou ld of every larg e p u bli c assem bl y. t i on o f th e H ouse to t h e pet i t i on o f David Jon es 'o ° I : This was no p a rty question, an d on a ll occas i ons to a s i m il ar case o f oppress i on i n fli cte d b y the s e - ea rt t o the feeling of' a public assembly was i n f avour o f f en di ng par t y on anot h er, an d t h en h e wou ld r t, sympathy for the suffering, e s p ec i a ll y w h en t h at t h e R eport o f t h e E cc l es i ast i ca l C omm issiot ie o ;lce• suffering was connected with talent.—(Hear.) order to justify him in the motion he intended to boar Every one would therefore feel the extremely painful The petitioner, David Jones, was a man in a cerY 'll or feeling th a t h e h a d on r i s i ng t o oppose t hi s c l a i m. All bl e stat i on. H e h a d not t h e i n fl uence o f r the dictates of humanity were in favour of relieving the name to back him against his oppressors. lie li x a i r . distressed. But why had not th e Ch ance ll or o f th e the sympathy of the House to look to, and he (' oo e e t Exchequer consulted the legal advisers and others in hi s hoped and trusted that there were now presen t s he les t confidence upon this subject, and made up his own mind the Hon. Members who supported him whe n vO 4 , upon it, before the discussion was entered upon in the mentioned this subject in the House.—(He ar e ' r iso a e e : House ? If there was a large majority a ga i ns t hi m , i t D av id J ones , th e pe titi oner , was no w a Ed 0 : would very much embarrass him ; and if he was to have in Carmarthen gaol. He was a weaver , ti t , e t as the full power reserved t o hi m o f cons id er i ng w h et h er b e l onge d to a rel i g i ous persuasion, wh ic ," er isile" the claim ought to b e gran t e d or not a f terwar d s, why, excee di ngly o b nox i ous to persons w h o 1r man then, the time of the HouSe had been thrown away. what they called orthodox opinions—he was a P e :i e ete d Besides, if the Chancellor o f th e E xc h equer s h ou ld an d an i n d epen d ent one . I n 1837 lie w 3 e s . a ba r g . afterwards reject the claim, th a t wou ld h ave t h e appear - c h urc h war d en f or a p ar i s h near C arma rthen (" 3 11. v; ance of being very hard upon the claimant. It would we understood), and a person of wealth, Mri ejee r be a bad precedent, and a course calculated very much Thomas, was elected at the same time by the_ 0 0 r to embarrass the Right Honourable Gentleman's situa - his churchwarden. He begged the House tu lfere et ll tion. Upon looking to the facts of the case, he found that, her those facts, as he would show them how d!_ e in 1800, this invention yielded a profit of 14,0001.; in justice was dealt to the poor man and the oceLlat, 1801,a profit of 14,000/. and afraction ; and then, in 1802, The Rev. Ebenezer Morris was the Vicar o r i el :: ee e , the profits were reduced to 4,0001, in consequence, it non. Mr. Thomas never attended the Ch y tt ed ou t e l was said, of their withdrawal of their capital to improve never did the duties of churchwarden. fleeiveeleslas; their invention. Well, he deeply regretted that they the parish, yet he was never cited before t:J-2 m ake had not continued to realize the handsome profits which tical Court for neglect of duty. When the tra lse they had been realizing by following the conduct they time came the petitioner called a vestry t 0 ear had originally adopted. That was one cause assigned Church-rate—but an adjournment was movee!or`iraei!3B_ of their failure ; and the other was their failure upon an ried by a majority, and thuS Mr. Jones failed .0 make an application to the Court of Queen's Bench for a re- a rate, though he did his duty in endeavour in g to t Ore newel of their patent. If the Messrs Fourdrinier had one. Now let the House observe the steps t _ hee itr'r ; applied to the Court of King's Bench, and in conse- taken by the Vicar—a minister of peace and u e by tors quence of any neglect on the part of their advisers, against the poor man. The first thing d°„ (l , ho se l apd or of any unforeseen circumstance, they hod been minister of peace and charity—or if not t ot .` unsuccessful, no man could regret such an unfortu- toes, at least a minister of the Church Feign e d nate occurrence more than he (Sir Robert Peel) did ; and a pluralist —was to write to th e _ b P e ead 1113 ; to e but this was no reason for their calling upon the House on the 25th of May, ordering him have lth ° f ju js, to grant them compensation. The proper rule for the wine for the Sacrament provided by the d no fue _ e House to lay down was this, to say to all inventors you following. The petitioner replied that be ha d o must look for a reward entirely to your own skill, and and that he was too poor individually t eee d: pro' to the exertion of your own ingenuity. . The law grants bread and wine. Mr. Morris then col!!! ,e Court you the protection of a patent, and although we are ceedings against Mr. Jones in the Ecclesia n tld; ae y ; rich enough to afford to grant you compensation, yet of the district. He was condemned for eo ‘tus issued we object to do so, because we will not establish a pre- process from the Court of Queen's Benenhd" eco_stoss; an ccdent. He could mention many cases of peculiar against him ; he was arrested for debt a hardship. Suppose the case of a surgeon possessing the incarcerated in Carmarthen gaol, greatest genius, and who by his discoveries had sue- rnained, and whence he petitioned the 1 0 1 tvo ceeded in mitigating human suffering to a consider- (Mr. H.) had procured the opinions ,L 5 en d able extent, yet in consequence of some peculiarity in his eminent civilian lawyers, namely Dr. Adoa"' f' his Pr ecee n r where_hous:. ost manners, or from his too great devotion to abstruse Haggard, on the justice and legality 0- t studies, or from some other circumstance which could ing He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman.e , not be imputed to him as a fault, he did not meet with ber . for the Tower Hamlets was present to.n.ialn;sitatea. that success which his merit deserved ;no man could re- (Heel-, hear, from Dr. Lushington.) Dr. Ad. s ° ory coo Bret the position in which such an individual that the articles exhibited iu the Cops' . would be -placed more than he (Sir Robert Peel) did ; but that would not constitute a case for coming down to that House for the purpose of asking compensation. He would lay it down as a general rule, that that House ought on no occasion to grant any compensation of this nature. Even in cases of soldiers or sailors, he shorild say when they entered the sers ice they knew the rules and rewards of it, and however much one might distinguish himself above his fellows he would say these would constitute no grounds for the House granting him a reward. Ho would re ward him by promoting him to higher rank or by apt pointing him to any office in the gift of the Govern ment, but not by a grant fro m that House. Antl he would say that such a distribution of their patronage was an equal honour to the individual and to the Go vernment.—(Hear, hear.) He imputed no blame to the Government for not having adopted this plan with regard to Messrs. Fourdrinier, there might be no situation in the gift of the Government for w hich the peculiar abilities of those gentlemen fitted them; but he did blame them for the course they had adopted in not coming to a decision without having the s ubject discussed in that House ; he considered that all such preliminary discussions were calculated to excite false hopes and embarass the Government, instead of assisting it. He felt that in many cases it became a most ira" portant duty for those having the care of the public purse to act in opposition to the dictates of their ,celings ; he was not satisfied that a just claim for com pensation had been made out, and be should oppose t he motion. Sir ROBERT INGLIS, agreeing with his Righ t Hon. Friend who had just sat down, as to the easiness of being liberal at the public expense, believed that there was no danger of any improper precedent being established by granting compensation in h e present case.—(Hear, he ar .) O n ly one Siin case had occurred within th e l as t 30 y ears , and if t here really existed the danger imagined by his Right Hue' Friend, it was extraordinary such a period should hav e elapsed without any such application. He believed that these gentlemen had a claim on the justice of the House for compensation, as they had contributed large l y to the increase of the public revenue at a great loss to themselves, and he did not imagine his Right He e * Friend would have objected to a grant, if it had been proposed under the sanction, and on the responsib ility of the Government. He tru,ted that these gentlenleu would net suffer be cause th e G overnmen t had Im t adopted the course which his Right Hon. Friend sr proved of, and he hoped the Chancellor of the Evil!' quer, seeing the feeling of the House, would take the case of the Messrs. Pourdrinier into his serious con s ' derat ion. Mr. GODSON would state the circumstances of the case to the House. These gentle Men were stationers, and in 1800 th e i r prope rt l amounted to 14,0001. a year. They withdrew a portic; their capital to perfect their invention, and three or t. years after the introduction of their improved Inu e , b i e nery they were opposed by all the paper-makers in " I kingdom. The House would see that no indirid t ;l: however rich, could stand a combination such as tu ; In 1807 they found that by actions in courts o f laW '- protect their rights and other proceedings they 60,000/. out of pocket. I n 1807 th e y became baae rupts, and the as s i g ne es d e t erm i ne d t o go on With f or actions, they recovered a ver di c t ; an d on a motion be a new trial, the Lord Chief Ju s ti ce sa id, that as t ; patent was for making paper from 30 to 40 feet lar 4 ' and from 3 to 12 feet wide, the machine which wasp duced in Court could not do so ; so th a t they I' s ruined, not from a.defect in their patent, but frola want of mechanical knowledge in the Chief f ns ' tice, for had they had property sufficient to W e e d gone to a new trial, they would have Prep, a combination of those ma c hi ne s was c liy able of making paper in the manner described. this invention 150,0001. a_-year had been saved to toe public, independent of other advantages dependeatect the superior size and quality orthe paper manufacturer , It had also been applied to other articles of tos°, ll e n ture, and it was impossible`to calculate the adva e , l 7to that had accrued from it. If any person had a rigu'd compensation, these gentlemen had, and the onlY . gr en o for opposing their claim that he could imagine y r ir , the wish to establish a pre ce d en t sever un der any