The Sun. — London, England, 1839-03-20 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION Lord JOHN RUSSELL had no objection to the ttion being considered on the 16th of April, tbe could not consent to changing a Ballot-day al- fixed. CALLING OUT THE MILITIA. An HON. MEMBER on the Opposition side of the lions; to ask the Noble Lord, the Secretary for the llemeDepartment, if there was any intention of calling out the militia during the present year ? Lord J. RUSSELL said at present there was no such intention. INTERFERENCE WITH THE PRIVILEGES OF THE CITY OF LONDON. Mr. LAW gave notice that on Friday. the 22d of March, lie should move that Counsel be heard at the Bar on the petition of the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons of the City of London, against the Bill " for further improving the Police in and near the Metro polis" before the second reading of that Bill. IMPORTATION OF FOREIGN CATTLE. Mr. BANNERMAN postponed his motion touch ing the importation of foreign cattle. . INDIA. Sir JAMES GRAHAM gave notice that he would on Thursday, the 28th of March, call the attention of the House to the conduct of the British Government in India. POOR LAW AMENDMENT ACT. Sir E. KNATCHBULL wished to ask the Noble Lord at the head of the Home Department whether it was his intention, at an early period, to introduce a Bill liar amending the New Poor Law Act. He also wished to know whether it was the intention of the Noble Lord to lay on the table any general Regulations made by the Poor-law Commissioners. Lorl JOHN RUSSELL said that it was his inten tion in the course of a few days to lay on the table of the House the Regulations to which the Hon. Baronet ha•.l adverted. With regard to the other question he had only to say that he did not think it would be in his power to bring in a Bill with respect to the Poor law Amendment Act very early, because there were other Bills to be proceeded with ; but he might now say that in any Bill he should introduce there would be no provi sion affecting parishes under Local Acts. Colonel PERCEVAL wished to know from the Noble Lord opposite how it had happened that certain portions of the Commission directed in the late reign with respect to railroads in Ireland had been omitted in the Commission issued at the commencement of the reign of her present Majesty ? He alluded to the direction given to the Board of Works. Lord JOHN RUSSELL was not aware that there was any difference in the Commissions, because he had directed that the same Commission should be renewed. His intention, however, was to make the Report of the former Commission the ground on which the Bill upon the subject of railways in Ireland should be framed. Lord SA NDON gave notice that to-morrow he would ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it was his intention to bring in any measure during the present Session for the regulation of Joint Stock Banks. Lord INGESTRE, not seeing the Secretary for Foreign Affairs in his place, wished to ask whether any Member of the Government would give the House any explanation as to the cause of a bag of letters from India being detained on its way through France? Lord JOHN RUSSELL was not aware of the circumstances, and could give no answer. NATIONAL EDUCATION (IRELAND). Mr. Gli ATTAN rose, pursuant to his notice, to move for returns connected with the system of National Education in Ireland. He complained that the Board of Education had existed for eight years, and had spent the sum of 264,0001. without having in the slightest degree carried out the object for which it was esta blished. His opinion was that they were proceeding upon a wrong principle altogether. They gave their aid in such a niggardly manner that it was impossible they ever could have a good school—they allowed only 81. per annum to the master, which was totally inefficient for any good purpose. The intention of the House was to institute a united system of education, and to exclude clergymen from any share in the management of the schools ; in place of that there were 260 of the schools established in nunneries, monasteries, and chapels—(Hear, hear)—while there were no less than 360 clergymen receiving grants as patrons of schools. Mr. Carlisle, the paid member of the Board—Mr. Kennedy, whom all in that House knew, had both left the Board. Mr. ---, the manager of the model school, had also resigned. How was this ? He thought he was entitled to ask the Noble Lord the cause of all these changes. He did not intend to move the resolu tion of which he had given notice, because since then a Report from the Board had been laid en the table of the House, and they ought to have time to consider it. He then moved for a series of returns, in order to show the working of the system. Mr. F. FRENCH seconded the motion. Lord MORPETH did not know whether the speech of his Hon. Friend was intended to damage the system of national education in Ireland, and to stop its pro gress or not, but such attacks coming from a professed riend t ) the system, were more fatal than if they came from professed enemies. He was aware that different fpartics in Ireland, as well as Members both from Eng land and Scotland, in that House, found fault with the s- stein, but he would consider it sanctioned by the House so long as it continued to give the grant which it hail done to various Administrations. The Go vernment certainly intended to carry out the intention with which the system was insti tuted, viz., a system of united education. He was aware that many clergymen of the Established Church, that some Presbyterians, and some of the Roman Catholics lied denounced it. Ile was very sorry for this, for he had been most desirous to have the united co-operation of the clergy, of every denomination. The State was most desirous to have a system of: united, universal education.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The State was desirous to place all the means it could at the disposal of the Board, but it could not make the at tendance o f parties compulsory.—(Hear.) He re joiced that it was so—while, at the same time he was glad to assert that it placed the means of edu cation within the grasp of all parties. He was ready to ad:nit that the system of united education had not been completely successful, neither could it be said that it had entirely failed. The Report of the Commissioner who was connected with Ulster, and who had gone out of his way to collect the statistics of the children of the respective religious denominations who Lad at tended the schools in that province (for Government had always disclaimed such inquiries, and the Commis sioners had ordinarily no data to go upon)—that Re port would show that there were 504 schools in the province of Ulster, relative to 371 of which the statistics of the children had been ascertained. At 31 of these, there were no Protestants ; at 40 there were no Catholics, but there were 300 at which children of both denominations were promiscuously educated. The total number of Protestants at the schools in Ulster, was 14,628 ; the total number of Catholics was 22,453, which was a pretty fair pro portion, considering the relative numbers of the re ligious population of Ulster. The fact was, that wherever the system had had fair play, and wherever Protestants and Catholi cs h a d co - o p era t e d, it h a d given satisfaction. He had in his hand a letter from a clergyman of the county of Monaghan, which contained a practical reply to the objections of Sergeant Jackson the other night. The writer said that he had already established four schools under the superintend-' once of the Board, and with the co-operation of the Pro testant and Catholic Bishops. There were already one thousand pupils in those schools, and the system worked as well as could be expected in so short a time.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord here read the regula tions, which were signed by the Roman Catholic Bishop and Curate, and by the Protestant Rector and Curate. Religious instruction was given every day in hose schools to the younger pupils, while the elder received lessons from the Douay or authorised version of the Scriptures. On Saturday religious instruction was given by the Clergyman of each denomination, and upon other days the Clergy generally were invited to attend, provided that they should give no tice of their visit. The fact was (proceeded the Noble Lord) whenever the Catholics and Protestants had united, and thus given fair play to the system, the best results were experienced, and each religious division of pupils received the religious instruction they required. When co-operation took place the pupils received an excellent system of education; when they did not co operate, a very good system of separate education. which was the next best thing, was given. The Hon. Gentleman complained that a lower class of schools than was attended was patronised by the Board—he would admit this, but the Board were now using their utmost endeavours to be able to send forward the best class of masters speedily. The Noble Lord then referred to the new Report of the Commissioners, which stated that the Board had taken a house near Dublin, in which normal school pupils would be boarded and lodged—that no master should be appointed unless he had received a certificate from the clergyman of his denomination.—(Hear, hear.) He (Lord M.) was glad to hear his Hon. Friend (Mr. Shaw) state that he acquitted the Board of peculation or any design towards it. He then proceeded to state that a system of education which would include all classes,would be by far the best. If the present system were susceptible of im provement, he should be most happy to see it improved. He believed that it would do great good to Ireland, and that the other classes had their interests mainly involved in it. He believed that the happiness of the people of Ireland was more deeply involved in the present system than perhaps almost any other. He should, therefore, agree to the motion of the Hon. and Learned Gentle man except that part which referred to religion. Nlr. SHAW wou ld de f er enter i ng i nto an y discus sion in detail until another opportunity, but he must say that the system of united education had altogether failed in giving sat i s f act i on to any one class, whether Cath o li c or Protestant. He was sure that to no consi derable extent would the children of both persuasions be found together , but if th e returns s h ou ld not spec if y the rel a ti ve numbers . which he had specified, they would bk for nothing.—( Hear.) COLQUHOUN contended that the distinction ~. t.~.j- • / r=il .27 4) .4;i4 required by the Hon. Member for the Univel sity of to a part of the return for which the Hon. Member Dublin should be given. He contended that the car- had moved, because he doubted whether the Board were dinal principle had been departed from in every instance in possession of the materials, and also because it ap -for instance, Mr. Carlisle, the Presbyterian Minister peered to militate against the principle on which the for Ulster, allowed the Bible to be introduced instead system was founded. However as the whole point at of the Scripture Lessons, whilst throughout Leinster, issue seemed to turn on this precise particular, and as Munster, and Connaught, Roman Catholic Books the ground had been in some degree cut from under him and Catechisms were read during the hours of in- by the partial returns before the House, he could not struction.—(Cries of " Hrar, hear.") In Ulster and resist the motion. Leinster the grants had been large, whereas in Munster The motion was then agreed to. and Connaugt, where national schools ought to have AFFAIRS OF MEXICO. been founded with the greatest assiduity, they had been Lord SAND ON presented a petition from the mer small. In Ulster 10,0001. had been granted, in Leinster chants of Liverpool on the subject which he was about 12,0001. ;in Munster, where the population was equally to bring under the consideration of the House. large, 7,0001., and in Connaught 5,0001. If the House Mr. GROTE presented a petition on the same sub looked to the state of the various schools this would ject, signed by 300 merchants of the City of London. appear still more striking, as it would be found that Lord SANDON then rose to move for copies of 1561., for instance, had been granted to a school con- any memorials addressed to her Majesty's Secretary of sisting of 107 scholars, and in another instance, where State for Foreign Affairs, by British merchants trading the school consisted of more than 100 scholars, the with Mexico and Buenos Ayres, praying his interfe grant was 161. There had thus been an inequality in renee to pretect British commerce against the effect of the grossest manner of the distribution of the grant. blockades established in the ports of these countries by Another point to be observed was, that the Commis- the Government of France ; together with the corres sioners, who ought to have retained a hold over the pondence with the said merchants arising therefrom. Also school-houses, had abandoned that hold by vesting the copies of any communications with the French Govern school-houses in trustees. It was likewise of the utmost meat, founded on the said memorials. Amount of importance that good schoolmasters should have been British force present in the Bay of Vera Cruz, at the got for those schools, but instead of that the heads of time of the taking of the Castle of San Juan d'Ulloa, by the old schools had been transferred into these Na- the French squadron under Admiral Baudin, and at tional Schools, and the masters were anything but the taking of Vera Cruz by the same squadron. He fit and competent men.—( Hear, hear.) One was an old felt some embarrassment in putting himself forward on smuggler, another was a man who had taken part in the the present occasion, on account of the magnitude Rebellion of 1798, and who now spent his evenings in of the question at issue, and the amount of interests in reading the most violent parts of the most radical por- volved in it.—(Hear.) He felt, however, imperatively tion of the Press to the villagers. Another was a man called on to bring the matter before the House. In who had been dismissed from the Coast Guard service. doing so he must disclaim any feeling of hostility to -(Hear, hear.) Another a man who was sentenced wards that groat country on whose proceedings he was to seven years' transportation, and that was only a sam- about to remark, in any other way than as they were ple of the masters of these schools. The inspectors directly at variance with the interests of this country, were men of exactly the same stamp. For instance, and with the interests of all other nations interested in there was Dr. Finn, a man who was in the habit of commerce. Before going into detail it might be neces taking the Chair in the most violent party meetings sary, in some degree, to allude to the proceedings at held in Ireland, and from which chair he walked into Buenos Ayres and Mexico, which preceded the block an inspectorship. ade. It appeared that for a long time France had en- Lord MORPETH said Dr. Finn had been dis- tertained a great desire to obtain considerable influence charged two years ago. there. Evidence of this desire existed, not only in the Mr. COLQUHOUN did not consider that State Papers of the Foreign Office in 1820 and 1821, much altered the case, because if such men were ap- but also in the negotiations on this subject made by M pointed, and there were twenty-four inspectors, what Chateaubriand. In 1821 intrigues were in progress to confidence could the House have in such inspectors ? establish a Bourbon Prince on the throne of the re- The lion. Member had done his duty in bringing volted provinces of Spain. The avowed objects of this question before the House. And when it was France were the protection of some of her own sub clear there had been such extraordinary irregularities— jects who had settled in the territory of Buenos Ayres such misapplication of funds—and such improper from being called upon to serve in the militia. The selection of masters and inspectors, as he had shown possession of a right of the retail trade—an indemnity for there had been, the House ought to be careful the injuries which some individuals had suffered, but how it bestowed 50,0004 for such schoolmasters and greater than all these was the imposition upon the inspectors, and above all they ought to learn from this State of Buenos Ayres of a Treaty of Commerce, to be cautious how they introduced into England such similar to that enjoyed by Great Britain. With regard a scourge.—(Cheers.) to the pretensions of France to protect her own sub- Mr. VERNON SMITH wished to ask one ques- jects from being enlisted in the militia, thought that tion in reference to the several statements brought for- was a privilege very desirous for foreigners to enjoy, ward by the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, the absence of it was not a justifiable cause of war for which was, were they facts which had occurred pre- any country. With regard to the cases of individual vious to the investigation which had taken place in 1837 injury, they appeared to him to be exceedingly trifling. or subsequently ? If they occurred preceding that in- But passing over these, and coining to the question of vestigation it was the duty of the Hon. Member to have the treaty of commerce, he believed he was justified in brought them forward so that they might have been the saying that no nation had a right to impose upon subject of investig a ti on . If th e y were f ac t s th a t had anothr a treaty of commerce, and in case of refusal occurred subsequently he ought to have referred them to to make it the cause of war.—( Hear, hear, hear). the Board ; and if the Board had refused to investigate It appeared that a good deal of negociation had them then he ought to have brought them before the taken place on the subject of the treaty in question, and House for the purpose of having them inquired into. the whole matter was on the point of being settled, If they had occurred subsequently, he (Mr. S.) was not when something interposed, the amicable negotiations capable of disproving them at this moment. He was were broken off, and hostilities commenced. Another in the chair of the Committee in 1837, and wearisome remarkable circumstance in this transaction was, that as that investigation was, he would prefer going into a si- France, not content with the simple act of blockade, miler investigation to having unsupported reflections had associated her flag with that of individuals actually brought before the House in the way that had in rebellion against the Government. France, in con now been done. He went into Committee perfectly cert with those insurgents and rebels, at one time unbiassed either way, although he confessed he felt a overturned the regular Government of Monte Video. prejudice that a system of schools brought in by Lord The disputes with Mexico were very much of the same Stanley, and approved of by Lord Morpeth, would not nature as those with Buenos Ayres, but the French had not be likely to be injurious to the Protestant religion. certainly more reason for a transaction with the former He however arrived at the conclusion that this could Power than with the latter. A forced loan had been not be a complete system of united education, and taken from the British subjects by the Mexican Go chiefly because of the opposition of the cl erg y o f th e vernment, and he, from his connection with Established Church of Ireland. In reference to what Liverpool had often had occasion to remonstrate with the Hon. Gentleman had said about the unequal distri- his Noble Friend upon the subject. He acknowledged bution of the grants to different parts of the country, that the Mexicans had been,like all half-civilized nations, and as that Hon. Gentleman had founded it so very backward in giving that protection to Foreigners entirely on what had been stated by the Noble Lord within their territory ; but, at the same time he was not below him (Lord Stanley), he would refer the Hon. prepared to say that the French Government was jnsti- Gentleman to the letter of the Noble Lord, in which tied in using so much rigour with the Mexicans as theyhad he suggested that the local distribution of the done. At all events, they had not shown that attention:to funds should depend on local circumstances. the rights—the interests of neutral nations, that they Then there was a subsequent accusation of the Hon. ought to have done. Again, it was found that the Member, which was, that most improper persons had French under the plea which they had set up, were ex been selected as schoolmasters. Now if his (Mr.V. S's.) torting commercial privileges from the Mexicans—a impression of what had taken place before the Commit- principle entirely new to all the laws of nations. In tee was correct, the very reverse was the fact. The May, a blockade was notified upon the coast of Mexico. Hon Member had gone into detail upon that subject, and The question he was inclined to raise was whether the he had particularly referred to the case of a person British Government was called upon to recognize that, named White, whom he had denominated as every blockade with such speed as they had done. thing that was bad ; now with respect to the mode in Considering the immense interests we had in that which the Hon. Member had obtained the evidence upon country, was it not their duty first of all to have in which he had founded those charges. It was clear from quired whether there were good grounds for the blockade, the Hon. Member's own statement, that it was upon and, secondly, whether it was properly enforced. He very slight grounds.—( Hear, hear.) He trusted had looked through the whole of the writers upon the therefore that the House would ponder well before law of nations, and it was a full and recognised prin it put much ' faith in the statement of the eiple, by all writers, that unless a blockade was enforced Hon. Member upon the subject generaly. If a in such a manner as to put in jeopardy any ship going general measure was introduced, he should be prepared in or coming out of the port in question, it could not be to state his opinions, but at present he did not consider recognised as effective. Now the fact was, that one of it necessary to enter further into the subject. the principal ports of Mexico had not been seen by a Lord TEIGNMOUTH thought the statements of French ship since May. The Noble Lord then read the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland were such as several extracts from remonstrances made by Admiral to justify those who differed with him in stating their Rowley against a blockade notified by the Spanish Go opinions. He felt hound to deprecate the present sys- vernment, and also extracts from a remonstrance made tern of education in Ireland, as it was becoming gra- by a French Admiral, justifying the principles he laid dually and exclusively Popish. That, however, w as to down as to what constituted an effective blockade. Her be expected, looking at the course that had been pur- Majesty's Government, so far from showing that anxiety sued in governing Ireland.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") which became them as Ministers of the Crown, from the The system of education in Ireland, so far from having first had shown a disposition to take part with France. succeeded had totally failed, and lie would be ready to So far from attempting to mediate between the two join issue with the Noble Lord on this subject. powers, and so protecting the commercial interests of Sir F. TRENCH considered the Irish system of this country, in answer to remonstrances from the mer education as part of that crusade which had been under- chants of Liverpool and of London, his Noble Friend taken by her Majesty's Government against the Protes- directed his secretary to state that he was not aware tant Church. He differed from the Hon. Member for that the French had exceeded the maritime law, nor did Wicklow, who had brought this subject forward, on one he see any good reason to justify their interference in the point, he meant the agricultural schools; be looked matter. In his opinion the Admiralty were equally to more to those schools for the benefit of Ireland than to blame with the Foreign Office. At the time these oc any other measure. Thank Heaven they had last night currences first took place, there was not a single ship of disposed of the question which threatened to destroy agli- war on the coast. If there was no reason for them then, culture in Ireland. He differed from the Hon. Gentle- why should the country be put to the expense and in man totally in his desire for the introduction of manu - convenience of sending out such a lar ge f orce now . factures into Ireland. He wished to see agricul- Her Majesty's Government, instead of taki ng th e part of British merchants, appeared to take the part of the tare encouraged, and should be happy to see the French Government. A blockade to be respected ought to Honourable and Learned Member for Dublin devot be effectual, but the French blockade at Mexico had not ing the great powers of his mind to the improvement been so. He had a right to say that British merchants of agriculture instead of agitation, as he conceived that had suffered ; for when the bombardment of Vera Cruz attention to agriculture would make Ireland a happy took place, and when British merchants were obliged to country. Mr. PLUMPTRE said that this never could nor fly from the town, their property was unprotected, and l o u g ht to succeed as a joint system of national education. left at the mercy and good will of a hostile force, with- The Protestant Clergy neither could nor ought to co- out a single British vessel being there to protect them. operate with the Rom an Catholic Priests ; the y could They had a right to say that that was a serious injury not do so on principle ;he hoped t hey never would do to their interest, to their character, their understanding, so. The Noble Lord had re l a ted an instance of one of their importance and dignity as British merchants.— There was no British force to throw the protection of their these schools, which was in connection with a nunnery, and had said it was a pity this shou l d be the c ase ; country around them, a t the time, perhaps, when life he thought that this was far to o mild an expression, and property might depend on the respect due to the and trusted that the Christian men of this country would British Government. It certainly was remarkable that e throughout et,tb er, the there the w a whole t of on e this i p a ff o a f i r w , until ar t o the protect end British of port of such a system as this.De never be called upon to vote a grant of mo ne y in sup interests other Ha e i e tha_n ( those er , that hear.) ni When ightcasu they all enter the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH E QU ER Gulf offound a defended the system of education , not a s the best trade amounting to between a million or a million and a system he could wish to see in operation, but as the half for eight or ten months, was it to be wondered at best system that under the circumstances of the that loud complaints should be made ? Another ground case could be devised for Ireland; but those very cir- for showing why this blockade was not one they ought cumstances rendered it totally inapplicable to England. to respect was, that it had not been uniformly enforced or He would never wish to see proselytising schools efficiently maintained ;on the contrary, it was enforced or established in Ireland. He had visited one of these relaxed according to the caprice of the French Govern schools which was under the exclusive direction of ment. With regard to the connexion of the French a Roman Catholic priest ;he had visited without notice, with ion A n l n exi t c l o te , there rt apgrzd e toFrbeencnhot to a t d e e c t t erm th inz desired to look at the rules of the school, and requested commercial intercourse a with that c o ouXt r r o y, but to that the regular business of the day might be observed. pursue u lterior measures to establish a permanent footing, ° The order of the day was the reading the scripture ex- and took advantage of petty squabbles for that pur_ tracts ; after the children had read the extracts he (the pose.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped the House would pardon Chancellor of the Exchequer) questioned them, and him for having trespassed on its attention, but being con he never found children answer more satisfactorily. netted with a great commercial community, he hoped he Now, why was it that this school was under the exclusive might be excused for asking for a full discussion of this superintendence of the Roman Catholic priest ? Because subject, in order to know what course the Government had the Protestants, from one motive or another, had with- pursued, and to hear from the Noble Lord the Secretary drawn. The Hon. Gentleman stated that they never for Foreign Affairs why so little protection had been could co-operate from principle, so that, with the expres- afforded to British merchants. If England had sent a sion of a wish for the largest extension of a system of British force within the contested quarters—in the ri ver L a Plata and the Gulf of Mexico—not for the purpose of education, he laid it down that the grants should b e coming into hostile collision w i t h t h e F renc h fl ee t, b ut for confined to those who admitted the free reading of the the purpose of showing we were then ready to protect Scriptures, which he knew would exclude the majority British subjects and the great British interests at stake, of the population from the benefit of the grant. he was convinced France would never have pushed the The O'c ONNOR DON protested against the use of hostility to such an extent, and that we should not have seen the term Popish priests, and the calumnies which had our commerce intercepted in the way it had been, and above been uttered against that body of men by the Hon. Gen- all, he believed the honourable British flag would not have tlemen opposite ; but his version of the term Christian been exposed to the insult it had experienced. Under these c charity taught him to do good for evil, and therefore lie circumstances he felt himself entitled to call on her Ma would bear witness to the virtues and Christian charity jesty's Government not only for copies em of any correspond. iti of a Protestant Prelate, Dr. Law, the Bishop of Leighlin. chants ttsh in n t may Liverpool,have passed as bwetwoerenth Belfast, and 15 and an account When he came to his diocese he said his object was to of the cost of. British force stationed in the Gulf of Mexico make good Christians of all the people in it—good at the time of the taking of San Juan d'Ulloa, but that lie Protestants if he could, and if not good Catholics, and was also entitled to know from his Noble Friend the Se_ lie therefore provided books for them to instruct there cretary for the Foreign Department what tone he adopted in the general principles of Christian charity, so that at in his remonstrance with the French Government, and all events they should be good Christians. H e w ou ld whether he took a more British tone than that which he say to Hon. Gentlemen opposite, "Go ye, and do assumed in that House ?—( Cheers.) likewise" Mr. GOULBURN seconded the motion. Mr. S. MAXWELL totally disapproved of the na- Lord PALMERSTON said be must acknowledge that tional system of education in Ireland, because he con- his Noble Friend had abstained from anything likely to sidered it an unwarrantable desecration of the word of create injurious feelings—so far at least as was consistent God. He agreed in every thing that had fallen:fromthe . As to the with the na t u re of the topics which his Noble Friend Hon. Memb er f or Kil marnoc k, a nd believed that this had brou ght forward. — ( Hear , hear, hear. As sstem was est a bli s h e d, not as a substitute for the head- greater p art of the documents for which his Noble . Friend schools, but t o suant the Scripture schools. moved, he had no objection to their production ; Pp l Mr. PRINGLE t ruste d t h e H on . M e mber for but he trust e d the H o use would agree with him that it would not be for the interest of the public service to pro- Wicklow would press fo r th e returns , b ecause it was duce communications with foreign G overnme nts, founded desirable to ascertain the cause of the failure of this up on certain memorials which had been presented. In scheme, and it was els) necessary when the House was most of the general principles which his Noble Friend had called upon to vote grants to know for what purpose advanced, he entirely concurred—for instance, he quite those grants were applied. agreed that a blockade ought to be effective in order to be Mr. GRATTAN replied. respected; it was only in the application of those princi- Lord MORPETH felt some hesitation in acceding pies that he diflered from his Noble Friend. He begged THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, INIARCH 20, 1889 to say that in this question the Government had not acted upon its own unadvised responsibility, but had been guided in all its measures by the legal authority which it was in the habit of consulting,. His Noble Friend appeared to consider, that the notification, by this or any other Go vernment of a blockade established by a foreign power against a third power, was necessary to give force and legality to that blockade. But he (Lord Palmerston) ap prehended that the effect of such notification was simply to warn British merchants of a blockade, and to caution them against running into any danger likely to arise. And his Noble Friend was mistaken in supposing that this noti fication gave additional force to the blockade. If the Government had said to British merchants, "Go into the port"—the Government would have taken upon itself the responsibility of a war with France in support of the claims of merchants whose ships might have been taken. Now, as to the general question; the state of the nego tiations between France and the powers of South America previous to the blockade, was such that the two parties might naturally be considered at war ; for the one power demanded a satisfaction, which if not granted, would be enforced by a naval armament. As to the Mexican blockade, the French force, from the commencement, was sufficient to make it effective. But would it not have been dealing much too lightly and inconsiderately with the weighty question of war or peace, to have hastily decided that a blockade was not effective, merely on the repre sentations of some merchants. He must solemnly vindi cate himself and the Government from the charge which had been brought against them, of being indifferent to the interests of commerce. He denied the charge most unequivocally.—( Hear, hear.) He ventured to say there never was an Administration that paid more attention to the commercial interests of the country, than the present Government. And for himself, he ( Lord Palmerston) would affirm that, anxious as he had been to cultivate alliances with foreign nations—the interests of England had been the polar star--the leading principle of his policy, and he defied any one to show a single act of his which could be attributed to a different principle.— ( Hear, hear.) He repelled the taunt as unworthy of his Noble Friend.—( Hear, hear.) His Noble Friend bad said that France under the Bourbons had been desirous to establish a permanent influence in South America : and that in 1821, France endeavoured to persuade the republic of Buenos Ayres to become a monarchy. It was natural enough that France should be as anxious to extend her in fluence and interests as England was to extend her ascen dency. But as to the conduct of France, he (Lord Pal merston) did not stand there in the capacity which his Noble Friend had endeavoured to put upon him, as a Mi nister of France. He stood there only as a Minis ter of England. It was not for him to defend the conduct of France. It was sufficient for him to vindicate the English Government. He did not find fault with his Noble Friend for the manner in which he had criticised the conduct of France, in respect to Buenos Ayres and Mexico; for the question certainly did bear upon the in terests of England.—( Hear, hear). But his Noble Friend would permit him to say that the example which he had set ought to be followed with great caution and circumspection ; for if it were to be established as a practice, that the legislature of our country was to make the subject of its debates the conduct of another country in relation with a third power, great evils would arise therefrom—considerable injustice would be the result of charges brought forward against absent parties, and irri tation would naturally be produced between different countries. If such a practice were to be pursued, it would be right, that, as in France, any of the M'nisters were at liberty to go into either Chamber, to vindicate themselves from charges brought against them, so that the Ministers of different countries should be permitted to be present in the Legislatures of anyof those countries,to answer the imputations that might be cast upon them. —( Hear, hear). It was not just therefore that France should be put upon its trial in that House with no opportunity of being heard in its defence.—( Ironical cries of " Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) While making this general remark, he (Lord Palmerston) had already stated that it was not ap plicable to the present case, because his Noble Friend had shown that the interests of England were involved.—( Hear, hear.) He agreed with his Noble Friend that it was not usual for one country to attempt, by force of arms, to compel another country to adopt a commercial treaty which ought rather to be made the subject of independent negotiations. —( Hear, hear.) And so, with regard to exemption from military service, any country had a right to say whether fo reigners should come in or go out as it thought fit, and that foreigners choosing to reside in such country should conform to its laws and usages. With respect to Mexico, the British Government had frequently had occasion to complain of in justice committed by the Mexican Government on British subjects ; and it would be going hastily to a conclusion to affirm that the G o vernment of France might not !have felt itself justified, from the complaints of its subjects, to demand some definite satisfaction ; and it would be unwise to judie, from the magnitude of any particular case on which two countries might come to a quarrel, which of the contending parties was in the right. His Noble Friend had said that the proceedings of the French Government in Buenos Ayres deserved the imputation that they were desirous of forming a permament settlement in that country. But the British Government had obtained from the French Ministry a formal declaration that they did not intend to retain any permanent settlement in Buenos Ayres or Mexico. With regard to Mexico, when the dispute first arose the British Government had offered its mediation, which in some degree had been ac cepted by France, and acted upon with great zeal by the British Charge de Affaires, and the French Admiral had expressed his gratitude to our agents and officers for their humane exertions in preventing those hostilities which might otherwise have occurred. His Noble Friend had said that a British force should have been in Mexico earlier in the transaction. But the upshot of his Noble Friend's argument was that the block ade ought not to have been permitted. Now he ( Lord Palmerston) would put it to the House whether the injuries to British interests arising from that blockade— injuries which he was unfortunately compelled to admit— were such as would have justified the Government in going to war with France, for it would come to that? He did not think such a principle of action should be re cognized by Great Britain. How would they like if such a principle were applied to themselves? If they had cause of complaint against any other power, would they suffer France to interfere, and say, " Yost shall not make war." Would they not have received such an interference as a national insult ?—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the squadron sent out to Vera Cruz, it had nothing to do but to watch the progress of the blockade, and, for that purpose, the Admiral commanding on the West India station received orders which orders were carried into effect. When it was intimated to the English Government that offensive operations were about to be carried on against San Juan d' Ulloa, a larger naval force was sent out—not certainly for the purpose of interfering with the French squadron in its operations, for if such were the intentions he would at once admit that it came too late—but it had been sent out for the purpose of giving a moral weight.._( Ironical cheers.) He repeated the phrase " moral weight," which had not been treated so derisively when used by a Noble Lord on the other side of the House in similar circumstances.—(Cheers.) But, he would ask the House, was England the country t• com plain of other nations having recourse to block ado for the purpose of enforcing their demands ?—( Hear, hear.) He did not wish to weary the House, but he had in his hand a list of forty or fifty blockades instituted by England during the late war. ?Tf country e oo r u( Nn a Lt declaration_ ro yuDd had dt nh cheers.)ee yeR never f gmh w a t\ a dv r He . t a meanLSior formalr t di o t P s say PEEL—After declarationEM that LE— thatßASWith war r regard ßaronet without t to waited ae givent e N d o bu satisfactory n L h o Lord's ' hstatementshe answersyt that ot ttth the h e e dt he ( po L uu o gt r an d t ti P s no . s rn ) e h a thatd allow ance dt should be made for the peculiar position in which that country was placed, and which rendered it highly injudi cious for him to state what the intentions of the Govern ment were. In such a ease the answer would have been published in the papers, and it would have enabled certain parties to shape their speculations accordingly ; at the same time lie must distinctly state that he had not the most re mote intention of treating those parties with any want of courtesy.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Now with regard to the statement that specie would not be allowea to be transmitted, he believed it would be found that great courtesy was extended to the English Post. office packets, the understanding being that they carried nothing but letters, and under such circumstances it would have been a violation of the good faith in which the ar rangement was made if specie or any thing else was intro duced or carried out of the Mexican ports. On the whole, he was warranted in stating that there was no in attention to the British interests, but, on the contrary., a great anxiety to promote them, which was met by a corresponding feeling on the part of the French Government.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had stated that the blockade of these ports was the cause of the great falling off that had taken plare in the exports, and that circumstance had been quoted as the foundation of various arguments recently urged in that House ; but he would refer the Noble Lord for an answer to the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, who sat beside him, who had proved a few nights since, to the great satis faction of his friends, taking article by article, that during the year 1838, the very year in which the blockade had been continued, the exports and imports of the country had been steadily and gradually increasing.—(Cheers. ) He had no objection to the other returns mo ved for b y the Noble Lord, but he hoped he would omit from them the communications that had taken place with the French Government.—(Hear, hear. ) Mr. E. TENNENT complained that in the last twelve months France had possessed herself of 2,000 miles of sea coast in South America. He did not complain of that so much as the absolute suspension of British commerce re sulting from the naval operations of that country. Ad mitting the right of France to blockade the coast of Mexico, still it was incumbent upon Great Britain to inquire into the sufficiency of the grounds on which a proceeding so formidable to her trading interests had been instituted. He believed that the grounds of q uarrel originally sprung out of the weakness of Mexico. The claim of France, which was originally 122,000 dollars subse q u ently rose to 600,000, by the admission of ever y com p l aint ad dressed to the French authorities. England and America had each tendered their intervention, but they were refused by France. It appeared to him that the assault of France upon Buenos Ayres was based upon the most unfounded pretensions, and no twithsta nding every explanation that had been given she had, to the present hour, continued to enforce a strict blockade. England was thus excluded from the important trade in the La Plata and the Gulf of Mexico. It appeared to him that this conduct of the French Government had seriously affected the commercial interests of Great Britain, and what added to the irritation of the case was, that the ex clusion seeme d di recte d against British shipping aloneHe hoped her Majesty's Government would take measures. cfoorpipeus of papers an end to that state of thin g s. The Hon. Gentleman then alluded to the cas e of the i nsurrection at Para in 183 5, an d t h e d e mand of British subjects f or in demnification, w hi c h b a d been refused or delayed b y t h e Government of Brazil, and conc luded by moving for papers connected with this affair, and the French occupation of Guiana. • Mr. GROTE thought it due to the numerous body whose petition had been placed in his hands that day, on the subject ' of the motion of the Noble Lord, and also to the feelings of the numerous body of merchants who composed the constituency which he represented, to say a few words on this subject. No man was less disposed than he was to meddle unnecessarily with the Executive Government in the management of their foreign policy ; but although he recognised the propriety of in general abstaining from into fering with the Executive, yet there were cases which imperatively called for the attention of this House ; and though he felt the necessity of looking at the world as a whole, and recollecting that what was said in that House was read in Paris and Washington, which he wished Honourable Members would sometimes keep in their recollection, still he felt himself called upon to address the House on this subject. There were three points which rendered this subject important. The first was the extent of the inconvenience which our mer cantile interest had suffered in consequence of these blockades. The second was that the blockades enforced by France against Brazil and Mexico, did not appear to repose on any solid or well grounded cause of complaint ; and the third was, the want of alacrity on the part of our Government, in extending the protection of the naval forces to the mercantile interests.— ( Cheers.) The first point had been adverted to by the Noble Lord, the Hon. Member who had just sat down, bat the extsat of British capital embarked in those countries, should be recollected: There were seven large min ing establishments, conducted wholly by British capital, which supplied nearly the whole of the silver imported to this country, which amounted to from eight to ten millions of dollars annually. This, as well as the importation of British produce was wholly stopped. Merchants incurred serious loss from their vessels loaded with goods being warned off by the blockading squadron. Under these circumstances, the sufferers called upon the House to examine the causes of this blockade. in consequence of which they had suffered severe loss, and which he conceived to he without the least rolid foundation. The French Government in their disputes with these two States, had mixed up two questions which should be kept always to tally separate—the redress of private wrongs and the este bliishment of certain principles of international law.—( Hear, hear.) Their mode of proceeding was most unbecoming, for at the same time that they strictly enforced the blockade against Mexico, they acted in a totally different manner with regard to the port of Callao, refusing to recognise the blockade of the Chilian fleet, and forcing the passage for French vessels. Thus the French Government would not acknowledge a rule when it told against themselves, which they would strictly en force against others. He could not but regret that Mr. Pak enham and Admiral Douglas had not arrived at the end of Oc tober, instead of the end of December, as he thought that the presence of the English Admiral and the English Charge d'Af faires would have caused the conferences at Xalapa to come to a different determination. It addefl to the bitter feelings of Englishmen on this subject when they recollected that France had admitted the arbitration of England in her disputes with the United States. The Noble Lord had asked if they were prepared to go to war—he had no right to that excuse, for he (Mr. Grote) did not believe that the intervention of England would be ineffectual er unattended to. He hoped that the news which had recently arrived would turn out correct, and that Admiral Baudin would at last have consented to the mediation of the English Admiral.—(Cheers.) Dr. LUSHINGTON.—BeIieving the circumstances of the case to be understood, and no important fact unknown, he could not look upon the blockade of Mexico, or the transaction on the coast of Africa, without deep regret and some feelings of alarm. He fully concurred with his Noble Friend the Member for Liverpool in his opinion, that the pretences of the French Government for the blockade of Buenos Ayres were unjust. He had never before heard the inhabitants of this country might dwell in another and enjoy rights and laws which were not in conformity to the interests of that country, nor had he ever before heard of one country saying to another, " You shall agree to a commercial treaty which we will propose whe ther yon will or no. Yen shall not judge of your own ad vantages or your own conyenience, nor decide a treaty accord ing to your own judgment." He would say that it was enough to excite alarm to use France or any other nation in such a manner. The Right Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to advert to the relations of France with Mexico, Guiana, and South America, and also to the principles of the blockade. To talk of a blockading force being effectual when it was absent for six months together, was altogether absurd. The meaning of it was that uniformly and constantly the ports should be shut against the ingress and egress of any vessel.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) suppose information had been obtained that the blockade was not properly kept up, and that twenty or thirty ships had been sent out, and found themselves under the necessity of coming back, it was the first duty of a Foreign Minister to prevent the great loss which might arise from such a mistake.—(Hear, hear.') He entirely a ,reed in the obser vation that it was the duty of the Government to remonstrate with France and urge the injustice of her conduct, but he did not know that they could, in the present aspect of affairs, ascer tain wl.ether such remonstrance had taken place. Could any one call on the Ministry to disclose what had taken place between the two Governments under such circumstances ? He entirely approved of his Noble Friend's course, and represented as large a commercial interest as the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool. He hoped that nothing which had occurred this evening could be represented to the French Go vernment as conveying on the part of any individual in the House the slightest feeling of hostility to that Government.— ( Hear, hear.) But he trusted that it would convince the French Government that we were wide awake—that while we are desirous of conciliatory measures we will have justice done. —(Hear, hear.) Mr. Alderman' THOMPSON was desirous of replying to the two propositions of the Noble Lord opposite, that British interests had no right to complain of the want of protection, and that there was a sufficient force in the Gulf of Mexico. Ire had a letter from a British merchant at Vera Cruz at the time of the bombardment of the Castle of San Juan d'Ulloa, and left it to the country to decide whether the British interests had the protection they required.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The Hon. Member then read a letter of the date of the 27th November, from a merchant of Vera Cruz, complaining that they were left without protection, while, at the same time, the Americans, whose trade was not one-tenth of the British, had three ships of war in the Gulf. That letter was a com plete answer to the assertion of the Noble Lord, that the commercial interests of this country were attended to and pro tected. The Satellite was not sent for the protection of our trade, but was sant by the Governor of Jamaica for specie, and finding that the assault was to take place, stopped one day but declared that he could not, stop longer, as it would be against his orders, and then he left the British interests to the pnltec den of a miserable packet. The French Admiral made a merely assumed demand of 800,000 dollars ; he had no ground what ever for such a demand. The assault took place, as threatened, and theref re he could not give such credit to Mr. Ashburnham as the Noble Lord gave him. He had stated these facts, and he had no dostbt the House would think he had answered the boast of the Noble Lord. Mr. C. WOOD said the Noble Lord who introduced the motion had made a slight allusion to the department with which he had the honour to be connected; but, from the turd the debate had taken, he would not have considered it his duty to address the House, had it not been for the allusions made by the Hon. Member who had just sat down. The correspondent of the Hon. Member did not go the length of saying that any injury had been sustained from the naval force. So early as April last, the Admiralty, finding it necessary that the Admiral should be at different parts of his extensive station, sent a supe rior officer, Commodore Douglas, as a permanent resident on the coast. With regard to the means provided on that part of the sta tion, he would state the number of ships and vessels that were at his disposal, arid which, if he had thought necessary on receiving any communication, he might have despatched to the Gulf o Mexico. On the 2d of June he had $ sloops of war at his dis posal; on the 14th of August he had 8 sloops of war and a steam vessel ; on the 7th September, the same ; on the 25th, the same and a frigate ; the same on the 13th of October ; and until the 13th of December, there was a force, never a less force, than 8 sloops of war, a frigate, and a steamer. If the Commo dore had received a communication from the Consul at Vera Cruz, he might at any time have sent to the Gulf of Mexico, for such protection as British interests might seem to him to requite. Then as to the complaint .that our merchants had not been allowed to bring specie .from that coast. The application mentioned by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Sandon) was received on the Ist of August. On the same day the Admiral wrote to his Noble Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, and on the 13th of August a communication was re ceived from the French Government stating that no restric tion would be placed on the importation of specie, and that they had given orders to that effect.—( Hear, hear. ) 111 r. WARD said the complaint against the French was, that they had denied the application to themselves of those prin ciples which they had asserted in regard to other nations. He hoped the result of this discussion would be to in duce the Government to protest against the con tinuance of a system under which British commer cial interests were so greatly suffering.—( Hear, hear.) The representative of Frsnre had used a most insulting tone towards the Mexican Government; and yet, if the French Government were to land 20,000 men at Vera Cruz, it could not obtain its object. He thought the Government of this country should take strong measures to deter France from per sisting in its present course.—( Hear, hear). Lord ELIOT considered that the Ministry ought to protest against the illegal exercise, by France, of a most questionable right of blockade.—(Hear ' hear). Sir DE LACY EVANS hoped with the Noble Lord that nothing that occurred in the course of the debate would inter fere with the amicable relations subsisting between that country and France. He believed similar feelings existed on the part of the French Government. and that there was every disposi tion to maintain the good feeling that at present existed. He believed, even if the Government of France meditated any hostile movement, the French people would not have gone along with it. Sir ROBERT PEEL said if the Noble- Lord had received from the French Government a satisfactory and formal assurance with respect to the occupation of certain parts of South America—he presumed there could be no objec tion to lay that document before the British public.—(Hear. ) The impression created upon his mind by the debate was, that there was very little use in having a Navy, or an Ambassador, because the Noble Li rd told them that the Ambassador was unfor tunately absent, and he had further contended that the presence of a naval force would not have operated as a protection to Bri tish commerce. If that be so, lie could not und ers t an d why they maintained a p eace establishment. if they had 20 sail of the line, ansl altogether 180 p ennan t s , w h a t was th at f or? He, (Sirß. Peel) understood it was for the protection of their commerce. It was admitted that there was a large force upon the West India station, and the Commodore had it in his power to detach a cer tain force to the Gulf of Mexico, but considering the relations existing between France and that country, it was a delicate thing for him to de so. He wanted to know what the Com modore's instructions were. The Government at home was better acquainted with the intentions of France, and it would be rather hard to devolve upon him the responsibility of taking any steps without receiving instructions. The Noble Lord admitted that after the capture of San Juan D'Ulloa, such was the alarm at Vera Cruz, that every single British inhabit ant, with the exception of the Consul, removed with whatever moveables he possessed, and 30 English residents took refuge on board a British packet. Did not that show the necessity of having a naval force in the Gulf? He held in his hand a letter addressed to the Lords of the Admiralty, in which it was stated that Captain Kirk, who had arrived off the port with a cargo of English manufactured goods, worth 50,0001., had been warned off by the French men-of-war, and was obliged to return to Liverpool. The . Captain had been allowed to land, and had an interview with the consignees, and that had been done by favour of the Commander of an American brig of war, who had lent him his boat to convey him to shore and back again.—(Hear, hear.) If there was no necessity for a British naval force, would the Noble Lord tell him why they had a British fleet now in the Gulf of Mexico? The Noble Lord had said that the presence of the fleet was necessary to give moral influence to the representation of our Minister—but suppose that Mexico said that she, as an indepen dent nation, would not agree to a treaty under a threat of a penalty of hostilities. What moral influence would the British fleet have there more than in the time of blockade. If the Noble Lord, relying upon the justice and equity of the French and Mexican negociatiens, still thought it necessary to have a fleet there in order to give moral influence to our representations—especially on behalf of British subjects, he thought there was no excuse for not having a fleet there during the operations of the block ade ; and if a very strong country were permitted to lay down conditions to a very weak one in the manner that France had done to Mexico, he must say that the influence of Great Bri tain in South America would soon decline. Lord PALMERSTON said that he had been misunderstood by the Right Hon. Baronet. Would not the Right Hon. Ba ronet admit that when two parties assumed the belligerent atti tude, the advice of a strong friend was more likely to be regarded than that of a weak one'?—( Hear, hear, hoar.) The Right Hon. Baronet had alluded to the hardship of an English mer chant who could not land at Vera Crux, except from an Ame- rican ship, during the blockade—but did he not know about the laws of the blockade, that a ship should not approach the shore without the consent of the blockading force. —( Hear, hear.) But there was a British sloop of war present from January to July, there was a sloop of war at Sacrificios, and she wa, relieved by one which sailed from Jamaica. He (Lord Palmerston) must object to the returns of the Hon. Member for Belfast. He found that by the 107th article of the Treaty of the Congress of Vienna, which was renewed in the treaty between Portugal and France in 1817, there was restored to the King of France that part of Guiana which extended to the sth degree of latitude. The treaty then went on to state, that the parties were to name Comm'ssioners to fix the limits of French Guiana, and that they were to conclude their labours in the space of two years, and providing that they did not do so, then the high contracting parties were to proceed to make another arrangement under the sanction of Great Britain. The Commissioners had never made their Report, a discussion had taken place-be tween the two Governments, and the French had taken posses sion of part of the contested territory, but not to tke extent stated by the lion. Member for Belfast. Heshouldtherefore feel it to be his duty to object to the production of the papers moved or by the Hen. Member for Belfast. lie could, however, assure him that the subject had not escaped the attention of her Ma jesty's Government. With respect to the British subjects in Paraguay, application had been muk for compensation, but the Brazilian Government having denied the claim, they were still under consideration. Mr. R. PALMER seconded the motion of the Hon. Member for Belfast. _ _ _ Mr. M. PHILLIPS trusted that the opinion expressed in the House that night would be read elsewhere ; and that the time was not far distant before the grievances complained of would meet with redress. Lord SANDON stated, in reply, that he should comply with the suggestion of the Noble Lord, and withdraw his motion. The motion was then withdrawn. Col. SALWE Y presented a petition from the merchants of Glasgow, relative to the Mexican blockade. EXCISE LAWS. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved for leave to bring in a Bill to consolidate and amend the laws relating to the levy ing the duty on bricks. Mr. HUME protested against the continuance of this tax, which was only rendered necessary by the extravagance of the Government. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that this Kas no encouragement to the Government to persevere in the useful task of simplifying the Excise-laws, which the Hon. Gentleman had urged on them. They were charged by the Hon. Gentleman one moment with extravagance when the House was urging an increased expenditure, and at another with penury. Col. SIBTHORP said both charges were true; the Go vernment were penny wise and pound foolish. Leave was then given. _ . Mr. HUME then moved for certain returns relative to the proceedings of the Exchequer Bills Commissioners, but after a few words from the Chancellor of the Exchequer he withdrew his motion. Mr. HUME moved for a Return of persons who are at pre sent confined for Contempt of Court in any of her Majesty's Gaols in Great Britain, under process issuing out of all Courts, Civil and Ecclesiastical, stating the time at which and by what Court each person was committed, and the cause of committal. Similar Return for Ireland.—Ordered. The Hon. Gentleman also moved for a Return of Persons who are now confined in any •f her Majesty's Gaols and Houses of Correction for Offences against the Revenue Laws in Great Britain and Ireland ; stating the nature of the offence, the amount of penalty incurred, and date of imprisonment.— Ordered. Mr. PARKER brought up the report of the Committee of Supply. The Duke of Wellington's Estate Bill, and the Copyhold's Enfranchisement Bills were read a second time. The House adjourned at a Quarter past One. REV. MR. STEPHENS. GREAT PUBLIC MEETING AT THE CROWN AND ANCHOR. Last night the friends of the above Rev. Gentleman assem bled at the Crown: and Anchor, in the Strand, for the pur pose of testifying there sympathy with him, on the line of conduct he has pursued, and also for adopting measures to raise subscriptions for the purpose of defending him at his ensuing Long previous to the time appointed for taking the Chair, the large room was crowded to suffocation. Among the crowd were a large number of females who appeared to suffer much from the pressure. Mr. FROST was called to the Chair with the most enthusiastic marks of approbation, and made a short address relative to the object of the meeting. Mr. HETHERINGTON moved the first resolution. The rea son he was appointed to do so was that he was in the habit of making short speeches. He was not surprised at this great meeting coming forward to express their sympathy for the persecuted Mr. Stephens, who was going to be tried for sedi tion, which was committed by him, as his enemies said, in his opposition to the horrible New Poor-law and the cannibal factory system, for the good of his country. Mr. Hetherington they read the resolution, that was to the effect that the meeting were determined to give Mr. Stephens their confidence, and hoped that he would get a glorious triumph over his enemies. Mr. ROGERS, of Bloomsbury, seconded the resolution. Mr. RictrAansorr spoke t o the resolution. (Shortly after he commenced his address Mr. Oastler made his appearance, upon which the immense meeting arose with a simultaneous shout of applause, and continued cheering that gentleman for several minutes. ) The resolution was then put, and carried with acclamation. Mr. WHITTLE proposed the next resolution. "IThat this meeting is of opinion that the attack on Mr. Ste phens was an attack on the liberties of the country, and that they feel themselves bound to use their utmost exertions towards his acquittal." Mr. 0s Bo IiNS seconded the resolution. Mr. Fxsuuus O'CONNOR said that he was glad that after having Mr. Stephens before the public for three months, to have it in his power to get him tried by an impartial jury. He therefore called on that great assembly to testify their certainty of his being innocent of the crimes laid to his charge to hold up their hand,..—(All held up their hands.) He now called on all who thought Lord John Russell guilty of attempting to subvert the constitution to hold up their hands. All held up their hands with loud execrations against Lord John Russell for several in stants.) Mr. O'Connor then continued to address the meeting for some time Vonger, and then introduced to their notice Mr. Oastler, who, he said, although a Tory, had done his ut most to forward the cause of Rulicalism. We have tried, peti tions in one hand and hat in the other, for a long time without success. We are pretty much in the situation of the old man in the table, who tried clods and fair words long enough, and found them of no avail. They were in the same situation ; and he would say that after trying the clods unsuccessfully they wouli be compelled to take to the stones.—(Hear, hear, and much cheering.) He was tired of going on ;it was now their turn to go on ; he was tired of being a leader, he would rather take his station, where his height would en ti t l e hi m to stan d , t h at i s , i n the ranks. He felt that, notwithstanding the opposition of that old worn out grunter the Morning Chronicle, and that Downing street'pig, Lord John Russell, the people would attain their liberties, if they put themselves in a proper position.--( Hear. ) The resolution was put, and carried unanimously. Dr. TAYLOR proposed the third resolution, which was to form a Committee to carry out the objects of the meeting. Mr. O'BRIEN seconded the resolution in a speech which elicited great applause. The resolution was carried. Mr. OASTLER then came forward at,d said they saw before them an individual whose proudest boast was that he was the friend of Stephens. He travelled far to see him, and to agi tate his cause in the nei g hb our h oo d i n w hi c h h e was adored He was glad to say that he again felt proud for being b e f ore a London audience in s upp or t. e f the man whose every wish was centered in the amelioration of the people. Three times he had now appeared in London to agitate for the people's cause. The first was in presence of the Lord Mayor, in favour of the factory children. On the second occasion it was in presence of an English Nobleman, whoalways was found endeavouring to promote the extension of true English liberty. Now he was to speak in the prosence of a Chairman, who by his independent conduct, showed what ought to be the position of a Magistrate in the discharge of his duty.—(Cheers. ) That gentleman had by his conduct on a late occasion entitled himself not only to the gratitude of the English people, but to the administration of all those who had the inte rest of their fellow-creatures at heart. He (Mr. Oastler) was nearly worn out in the cause of agitation, and no wonder he was so. From his earliest days he was found to be in the ranks of the true advocates of liberty. He was glad, before the lamp of his life was extinguished, to be able to have to say that in his holy work he left a successor who would not fail to give his energies towards the maintaining of that cause of which he was the ardent, he would say the evangelical, advocate. Mr. Stephens had always done his utmost to pro tect the suffering and the helpless against the machinations of laws which were enacted at the instigations of a Government which he (Mr. Oastler) would call unchristian and unholy.— (Hear, hear.) The character of Mr. Stephens was not, as it was portrayed by the Ministerial press, who omitted no opportunity of tradu :ing him to the country. Even in the House of Lords there was found a Noble Lord who had been raised from our order to the honour of a title, if honour it was to stand up with a newspaper in his hand and denounce him—that was Lord 13rougham—(hisses)--ves, Lord Brougham forgot the princi ples which he advocated, and was found to traduce that man on the report of a paid newspaper. Also Lord John Russell— (hisses) —if there is any of the police here in plain clothes, let him carry that hiss to Downing-street— did riot fail to denounce him and another, who had not the excuse of being swayed by newspaper reports. Would they guess who that was? It was Mr. O'Connell.—( Hisses.) Yes, he also denounced him. In order to make more sure of Mr. Stephens the Members of Parliament were paid to go about the country to say that Mr. Stephens had been setting fire to a mill in Ashton. Mr. Fox Maule did this three or four hundred miles from the scene of the burning. This was the first part of the plan. The next was, to induce the people of the south of England to believe that it was the work of Mr. Stephens, for the purpose of creating anarchy and revolution. Those torch-light meetings were got up for the reasons which he would detail to them. It was well known that those poor people who had to work in the factories were bound to remain in them from morning to night, shut up in those prisons, while their energies were exhausted, to procure a Scanty subsistence. It was also known that if they dared absent themselves but five minutes they were fined a quarter of a day. Well, at the great meet ing of Kersall Moore, Mr. Stephens was expected to speak, and when this was known to the working classes of Manches • ter, what could prevent them to see and hear the man who they always knew to have their interest at heart? Accord ingly a great many attended the meeting, and six hundred of were people who had the temerity to go to thig meeting been discharged in one day. This wholesale tyranny put the friends of the people under the necessity of calling the meetings by torch-light, for the purpose o: giving the people an opportu nity of assembling after work hours.—( Hear, hear, hear. ) [Mr. Oastler then went into a history of the whole proceedings that took place at and subsequent to Mr. Stephens's arrest, the particulars of which appeared in 'the Sun at the time the transaction occurred. How (said Mr. Oastler) can it be expected that the people of this country should regret the laws or the constitutions which countenanced such tyrannic infringements on the people's li berty. Mr. Stephens had sent one of his ermons to the offi cers of the cavalry regiments to whose custody he had been en trusted. That officer received the sermon, and said he thanked Mr. Stephens for sending it, and he would peruse it. When the messenger was coming through the barracks the soldiers said that in future they should not be called the Queen's Body Guards, but the body guard of Mr. Stephens. —( This announce ment was received with the most deafening shouts, which lasted for a long time.) Have they not reason to put themselves in a state of self-defence, when a lady, he was sorry to say it, said in Manchester at a ball, in the presence of a great many persons, that Mr. Stephens should be hanged, and that she should feel gratified if the Radicals were put down by fire and sword.—(Name, name.) He was too old to be caught doing any such thing. He had before stood his trial for a libel. Mr. Stephens had told them to arm,e d andid hneohtadhaildseo done the same thing , and thank God York s hi re w as nearly all armed.-(Hear , hear.) H his sentiments from tovernment on this question. He gave every information as to his advice to the people when ex am i ne d before the Hand-loom Commissioners —(Hear, hear.) When . he saw the Government conscious of their own weakness when he saw the clemency of the Bench to everyman whohas any to independence—when h e saw th em doing their best t: introduce EVENING EDITION. a rural police amongst them—he would be a Traitor to the country if he did not advise them to arm in defence of the constitution . (This declaration was received by the meeting with the most enthusiastic acclamations.) When first he began to agitate he always had his meetings called by the authorities, but now he acted in a cont..ary way ; he called the meetings together without having the sanction of Mayors, Magistrates, or gold chains. Perhaps it might be forgotten by the public press that he would not again petition, if so he would now tell them A eras so. Let the Morning Chronicle be aware that this is his intention, and for this reason because that when the peop le petitioned for a repeal of the Poor-law, Lord Howick—( He ar t ) . —yes, remember that name ; it was one of those morsels wh im ' they might have occasion for hereafter—(Hear, and chee rs) —that Lord Howick, who he believed was a Member of the Government or some such thing, had said that those petitions_ werenot worth thinking on ; they were only the effusions of some five or six agitators, and would not either burn or kill. This was what led him to think that it was foolish to petition a power that would neither allow them to remonstrate or give ear to the prayer of their petitions. He did not advise the people to arm, but they would do so privately, which he knew they were doing in private.—( Hear, hear.) He heard a grea t deal of the dagger, but when he saw the Government not ping to fight by the regular army, but by the villainous police, he thought daggers were good enough for them.—(Loud cheers.) We are told that the army is against us, but he had a good way of bringing them to his view of the question. This maybe called tampering with the army. But he has not ceased giving to the troops in his own country, all those writings which de tailed to them their duties towards their Queen and their country. The people and the army meet with every symptom of satisfaction and amity. lie and the officers ha d often gone together into crowds of people, and they always successful in their endeavours to keep the peace. He th en related an anecdote of an old soldier who was compelled to go to the workhouse, and said, " There's you, soldiers, will you now fight ?" Let Lord Brougham turn up his; nose t o -morrow night when he hears that the maniac some time in the nig ht discharged an uten it filled with unmentionable stuff on the wife of a British soldier. Hear that, soldiers—will you 1 10 fight ?—( Hear, and cheers. ) Mr. Oastler continued to address the meeting for some ti me longer. He detailed the evil effects of the New Poor-law it' the country, and concluded his observations by apologising for detaining them to so late an hour. A vote of thanks was given to Mr. Frost, after whichA e meeting broke up at a quarter past twelve o'clock. were Several gentlemen had their pockets picked when comi n g from the meeting, among whom was Dr. Fletcher, one of th e Chevaliers d'lndustrie doing him the favoar of relieving ht, from the inconvenience of carrying three sovereigns, which n e had in his purse; and, but for the keen sightedness e f gentleman in the crowd, Mr. Oastler would have come in for a similar honour, as the °°expert gentleman" was in the act f ,urning his pocket inside out when he was detected. METROPOLITAN' POLITICAL -SUMMARY. s~,~~ The Morning Herald of this day contains a leading article on the subject of—what our Contemporary calls;-- " the prOected Ministerial violation of the City's charter and privileges," in which he strenuously urges them nnti, submit to any infraction, however slight, of their pr ol " leges :—" If the City of London should submit to this nee variety of Whig tyranny, what meaner Corporation snigl it , dare to resist the unconstitutional encroachments of ‘",. t : Home-office? Orrkthe City of London there now, in fad devolves, as there has often in times past devolved, the te 4 so' defendii g all our most valued privileges against ?, pretensions of despotism. The present civic dignitall appear to be animated by a spirit worthy of the best of th e e r predecessors ; and never certainly did there exist stronq e , necessity fcr bringing that spirit to bear against the eneTl e ,. of all our time-honoured institutions." The Morning Chronicle, in the course of a lea u 7 article on Post-office Reform, and Mr. Hill's plan °' uniform postage, observes as follows Whatever b e upon the primary purposes of civil society ought to be sal ° f from taxation. Of these most assuredly are the means support, and the facilities for locomotion and commun ic ji Lion. Hence our antipathy to the Corn-law moneq, operating as a bread-tax. Hence our amusement at t wiseacres whose heads run upon taxing railroad con/r ) ; ances, and mulcting the spirit of speculation that, at be °. risk, does the duty of an enlightened and energetic i 0 vernment. These arc kindred tendencies t o mischief will that which, in the high rates of postage, presses upon kinds of friendly, pleasurable, usef u l, and pr o fitable O D ; munication between parties at a distance from each abort , ; The Morning Post is still chuckli n g over the late C° r l . law division in the House of C ommons , j us t a s if it ! e 0 not far more a subject for bitter regret, than clanlo nuf exultation I " The complaint of th e ag it a t or s," snYs - a t Contemporary. " upon the subject of th a t Division is a , once melancholy and metaphysical ; it combines the tho 3 of disappointment with the philosophy of reflec t ' ° 0 They who will not accord to it the tribute of a tear, i r i o , perhaps bestow upon it the encouragement of a smile• the deed, the agitators' discovery that a decision agains t . existing Corn-laws should have been a matter of inst' „ " c t s resulting from the operation of, what they call, 1 an i °1 , 1 , -- o t sense,' is one of the most curious to w hi c h the imOc" . ;,,t, inquiry has given rise. It must be a consolation in that such a philosophic discovery has been made. glory of scientific achievement is o ne o f w hi c h even a i ' ei e fish majority'—a class interest'—cannot deprive mild, modest, and uncommonly r e sp ec t a bl e agitators.' the The Morning Advertiser remarks, in reference t° recent Corn-law debates in the House of Common s ' " The vote of that House on the Corn-laws is a 'le t° strative proof, an unquestionabl e r ecor d, o f the neccss it Y; infusing into the constitution of that assembly a gr el 'oe portion of public opinion, which is to be done only by r , extension of the franchise, and the proteceon of its el e , r , cise. This is a consummation which has long been de s ' d , able, and the time is most propitious for its successful s vocacy." iees" The Times, s p ea ki ng on t h e su bj ect o f the ' 4 ,4 1 .' Brunswick Bou n d ar y quarre l"— to use our Contempor'te own language—ob ser v es as follows :—.d We deprec s war. We dread it f or t h e sa k e of humanity, f o r the e al 'j, of North America, bey on d a ll, f or t h e sake of Eng lail o which must dearly suffer. But there is such a thing . ; s driving a great country, ho wever t emperate an d toler7,, and pacific, into war, just as it is possible for the e , bcl natured And most ben e v o l en t man i n t h e wor ld to be for no oy indignity into a private quarrel. England can u ° ic e, more towards avoiding war , th an a b sta in f ro m liking'. (I. If both G overnmen t s b e w i se , t h ey cannot go on to bl° ° shed." SPORTING INTELLIGENCE• HAMPTON SPRING MEETING,—YEsTsitn AI ieeP The weather proved so much milder than would haT e ,ber s expected from its extreme co ld ness on M on d ay , that nill'i v er who would o th erw i se h ave f oun d f our h ours ' rac i ng at the. o t he r side rather inconvenient, mounted th e ir nags , an d joined l iv e spring diversions of the famed Mousley Hurst. The ° i e. , contingent was also pretty strong, and several p r ivate ea il t hers e coaches, and vans having been freighted for th e occasion , was really a numerous attendance, considering the earli7 o olS the season. Besides many oth er o ffi cers , we o b s erved ore , Waldegrave, Seymour, and Drumlanrigr, Hon. Mr., th eo Hon. H. Pitt, Sir J a me s B a i r d, M essrs . Conroy, 3 ,1,4 hif 1' Barnard, Willan, Willi a m s , B as t ar d, B eauc h am p, 1J" Greatrex, &c. The stewards were Lord Waldegrave , i s . all Wellesley, Esq., and E. Greatrex, Esq. The following account of the sport:— 1 010 Sweepstakes of 5 Sovs. each, with 50 added, for hors ei f fi c erl' fide the property of officers, and to be ridden by ° i olb; Three yrs, 9st ; four yrs, lOst. 121 b; five yrs, I l' t * 101b' six yrs. and aged, 12st. 31b ; thorough-bred horses , 5 05 i extra; a winner of a race in the Raci n g Calendar , 5 01' Heats, once round and a distance. The winner to b e for 120 s.,vs. ( Six Subscribers). Mr. Williams br. h. Sleadmere, aged... (Sir J. Baird) 5 Mr. Greatrex na m ed ch. m . by T arrare , 4 yrs . ... 9 1 1 Mr. Waldegrave's b. h. Clasher, aged e rtY A Silver Cup, va l ue 501., f or h orses b ona fid e the prop di , officers, and ridden by officers ; 11st. 71b. each ; It he bred horses, 101bs. extra ; winners of the value o f 50/. Racing Calendar, 71bs. extra. Twice round. Mr. I3eauchany's b. m. Bertha, 6 yrs (Owne r) % Mr. William's br. h. Sleadmere, aged Lord Dremlanrig's bk.m The Negress, aged ................ Won in a canter. to $ 1 Hurdle Race Stakes of 5 sov. each, with 50 added, o pen pa ce horses ; Ilst. 71b. each. A winner once of a Hurd le s trs' in the Ra c i ng C a l en d ar , 51b s . extra; tw i ce , 101bs. e 4 f e et Heats, once round and a dis. ; four leaps over hurdle G o 6 inches high. Th e w i nner t o b e so ld f or 50 so v. ( 4 „ Mr. Cust's b.g. Crusoe, a g ed......( M r . B eauc h am p) ° I Jr Lord Drumlanrig's b. g. The Devil — Mr. Brown's ch. m. Polly, aged Sir J. Baird nd. b. h. Snoozer, aged the h were won cl When we left All the ground at six o'clock lever there y. was or° pon e : a pect of a handicap race f o r horses of all s i zes an d denornin di d 00 but as the entries were made minus the owners we, t ter n think it worth waiting for. The "regular" sport, in Is e minated with the hurdle race. i9' BREAD BY WEIGHT.—The Salisbury trates have decided that they will convict bakers iiviosnirurn ties of 101. who do not sell their bread by weight. i n ; SO suance of this determination they convicted a baker ° information last week.—Salisbury Jour? ... :(21 : 1 01° EIGHT-DAY CLOG I TII 4 O to strike the Hours and Half-hours, Five Guineas each' • t hec r t are in elegant cases, about 7i inches high, suitable c ; A t stand on a bracket or mantel-piece, and are Warrante w cor W COX SAORY'S, Working Goldsmith, &c. Scc., 47 ' n i hill, London (Seven Doors from Gracechurch-street) . A list" N.B.—A pamphlet containing drawings a n d a detail e bork ° ' the prices of Silver Plate, Plated Goods, or Watches , ' post' &e., may be had gratis, or will be fore a rd e d in answer t o .A paid application. , oEfs the Esq., of o i l laf: late lß9it Richard Gower-street, a i r n d st w ., e a l t lß M s e, S il dE t f r ( R ) e r a d A t - h s l oci a7 ; m: D .Bl , r a : I,hMartintaom Ann, s, uJreor eldest of r. , daughtergeeoirolifi On the 16th inst., at St2 q lqarylebone Church, ,;` . . c hard , Barber, of John-street, Fitzroy-square, to Mrs. vi High-street, Marylebone. fromc 00 0 n n up t it the et r P: l o B 7u t tce h hrait i bno n es s ltc t .1 inst., arrse Isabella, n lED. hlbo L o:l i viaaaeg:re daughter . u o I gw , a i II fewi t• te l !! , „ Es i P George punier, Leith. A { SP I/1' On the 12th inst., Ellen, youngest daughter of •-•f' 1 46. lter of man, Lyceum Tavern, Strand. daughter o) On the 15th inst., in Great Coram-street, Jane, it William Thackeray, Esq., aged eight months. , 11, IL' '' On the 14th ult., at Paris, Captain John Jo' , aged 64. iforic i ' l motiti,aEyssqa.f,tehrerllajesti On the 13th inst., at Horton. cottage, Alio Harriet ,r, aged 65. bridg e, Cam ill, On the 13th inst., at Cherry Hinton, nea r sl eet- Thomas Headly Lyon, Esq., Solicitor, of Fsh- t r:ev ers l London, aged 26. m a jor-'^ , On the 14th inst., at Portobello, Edinburg h, Sir Patrick Lindsay, K. C. B VP M P On the 15th inst., Mr. Warburton, Cambridge-str eet ' e _ ware-road, aged 69. Islington' On the 15th inst., at Theberton-street , wife of Mr. Josiah Smith. , rl . of " L j r ,,, , , London Printed and Published by No. 112, Strand, at The Sun °dice. No• 11 ,..,, , 039. the county of Middlesex. —Wednesday, March w_ ..........,..... 31 UR D O r stra nd, i 'l BIRTHS. On the 18th inst., the wife of Mr. A m brose Maye s ' late , the George and Dragon, Hackney-road, of a son. the Ile' On the 19th inst., at Kensington-square, the lady 0 ' , V. H. Whitworth, of a son . • er li On the 10th inst., in Manchester-stre e t, Mrs. JoseP of a son.