The Sun. — London, England, 1839-08-02 00:00:00

EVENING - EDITION. recourse to justification ; and how was that to be Mr. O'CONNELL said he was sure the House proved? Mr. Hansard could not maintain ajustification, would not submit to assert by bill a privilege which they and the inevitable result would be a ggravated damages. had already repeatedly asserted that they did possess.— In what state would th e y l eave the printer? He (Hear, hear.) And as to the power—why they might be indicted the n ex t d a y, an d a ft er wards brought possessed the same means now of asserting this pri up for judgment. But let the House allow this to go vilege as they had ever formerly possessed for assert en, and evetY one who thought he had a grievance to ing any other ; and the same power which had success complain of would bring his action.—(Hear, hear.) fully asserted all the privileges they now possessed. Every person to whom a copy of a document was trans- Their committal terminated by prorogation. He ad mitted by a Member might bring his action, and per- mitted that. But if there were manifested a contu haps against that Member. But the House might also macious resistance to their authority, would not that be be called on to pay annually large sums of money as an met by a renewal of adjournments, thus prolonging the indemnity to the printer for costs, imprisonment, &c. punishment of those who had defied them.—(Hear, But what was the remedy proposed by the Right Hon. hear.) He did not like to differ upon this subiect Gentleman ? Abandon the sale. They would then from the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, whose speeches be in no better situation.—(Hear, hear.) Now, with on the question had been so distinguished by ability, and respect to the Prison Report, they were asked for it who had taken so manly a part respecting it.—(Hear, by Magistrates and by persons conn ected with prison hear.) But the Right Hon. Baronet had congratu discipline. What would they do in such a case ? Would latsd the House upon the improbability of their being they have a Committee of publication, who should charged with precipitancy in pursuing the course pointed purge out every atom of a libellous nature? Wh o out by the Noble Lord. Against the charge of preci would form such a Committee? Who had the indus- pitancy he (Mr. 0 Connell) certainly thought they try, the time, the talent? If they sat from day to d a y, would be secure ; but he feared they would be their task would never be performed. • But suppose it accused of timidity and shrinking—(Hear, hear) — was; what then? The effect would be that if they for let it be observed that Mr. Shaw, the attorney, struck out the evidence affecting the character of Mr. had actually committed a breach of privilege. He had Polack, and let itgo before the public, it might be cal- written a letter, which was intended to obviate the ne culated to mislead those who were about to emigrate. — c essity for personal service—a letter which, to any man (Hear.) . If the House failed in this case, they might not about to abscond, would be as efficacious as the ac abandod their privilege for ever. Let this not be con - tual service of a writ ; and which was a substantial and sideredas a case of personal privilege, such as being free virtual, if not a formal and technical commencement of from arrest, the abuse of which had brought all the pri- the action.—(Hear, hear.) The present was the vileges of the House into great and merited disgrace. — stron g est case in favour of the House that could possi- (Cheers.) Let it not b considered a case in which bly arise. —(Hear, hear.) He had intended to move 1 rn- Members were individually interested, but a ca se in that both Messrs. Pol a ck and Shaw should be co which they were compelled by a sense of duty to enter mitted ; for if Mr. Shaw's, the (attorney) letter was not into end encounter with the highest judicial authority authorized by Mr. Polack, the attorney would be struck in the country, and unless they did that they would be off the Rolls, so that it was a legal presumption that Mr. abandoning their duty to the public. On this ground Polack was responsible for the letter equally with Mr. he would stand, and he feared not the result. Let Shaw. The judgment of the Court of Queen's Bench had the public know that if the House succeeded not in been condemned by every dispassionate Member of the thus standing—that a most valuable fund of informa- profession—a more lame and unsatisfactory judgment he tion, which for ages had now been dispersed from one never heard—it totally shrunk from the real question end of the country to the other, which had added at issue. Why, before this, Judges had been subjected grea tly to the stock of knowledge — which had created to inquiry by that House ;it was the duty of the House to watch over the conduct of the Judges, but if the the greatest improvements—which had set the human House published the result of this inquiry, the very mind a-thinking—which had enabled the House to do, Judge accused might pass a sentence of condemnation . what otherwise it could not have done, to lay important ' truths before their constituents, and enable their con- on the House for publishing a libel.—(Hear, hear.) s tituents to understand the motives of their actions — And yet could the House impeach a Judge or address l e t the public know that if the House bowed to the de- the Crown for his dismissal without publishing the evi dence on which they acted. In all such cases, the cision of the Court of Queen's Bench upon this matter, House must not only satisfy themselves but the public. all this wide and important flow of information must be They were there by the authority of the people, who for ever stopped.—(Loud cries of " Hear , hear , he ar. ") were their masters, and whom they were bound to Now, a few words as to the terms in which the Hon. satisfy. But they were told they must not libel. Did Baronet (Sir R. Inglis) had said the Noble Lord had the Hon. Baronet know the legal definition of a libel spoken of the judgment of the Court of Queen's Bench, A libel was that which hurt the feelings of anybody. The Hononrable Baronet had said those terms were It had been held to be a libel to call Lord Hardwick a calculated to depreciate the Judges of that Court in sheep-feeder in Cambridgeshire, and to call Lord Redes public estimation, and that these were not the times dale a stout-built special pleader, although that Noble in which high judicial authorities ought to be depre- Lord was stout built, and had been a special pleader of ciated.—(Hear.) He (Sir S. L.) knew of no times great celebrity. No abuse could exist without an when high judicial authorities ought to be depreciated. abuser. No grievance without an oppressor, and yet —(Hear, hear.) But had the Noble Lord been justly to denounce that abuser and oppressor would be a libel. so charged ? Had the Noble Lord said one single Nothing could be more absurd than to attempt to con word beyond that which the circumstances of the case duct the affairs of this county if they were thus shackled. required, to render his argument sound, and safe, and Nothing could be more humorous or convincing sure ?—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had said that than the argument of the Right Hon. Baronet to the Court of Queen's Bench had taken a narrow and show the necessity of the publication in this very case. contracted view of this great and important question. But what was the proposed resolution ? It was merely That was true.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The saying the same thing over and over again. They had judgmentrnanifested it.—( Hear, hear.) It was a most done nothing since 1837. They had passed a resolution extraordinary production—the great abilities of those in that year ; and now in 1839, when an attorney, in Learned Judges seemed surely to have been somewhat the teeth of that resolution, had commenced an action, con tracted by the narrow sphere of the Court in which they were repeating the same thing in weaker words. I they were now sitting, and they seemed to have entirely By doing, this, were they not guilty of shrinking from forgotten the high and important duties which the Mem- their resolut ? Again, in the present year they had hers of the House of ,Commons had to discharge.am come to a similar resolution ; was not that an additional What were the questions asked by these Judges ? Why , notice ? And now, after all their vapouring, they now for what purpose this House suffered the publication of again contented themselves with repeating what they the Report upon Prison Discipline.—(Loud cries of s: ,me do sme other time. He wanted them to do Hear, hear.) Could that question have been asked by something now.—(Cheers.) The House had shown a h is Noble and Learned Friend at the head of the Court of Queen's Bench ?—(Hear, hear.) Could his hesitation on this subject, and the consequence was this Noble and Learned Friend have forgotten the many man set them at defiance. They had been threatening years he was in that House, and the many able long enough, and he thought the time was now come to speeches which he had delivered, always in defence of act.—(Cheers.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL, who spoke in a very low the highest principles of public liberty—speeches which tone, and was sometimes inaudible, said that further in he could never have delivered—speeches, the material of formation had reached him on this subject since he had which he never could have discovered had it not been last addressed the House. The Hon. and Learned for the reports of Select Committees.—(Hear, bear.) Gentleman had insisted on the necessity of proceeding The Judges of the Court of Queen's Bench were all of ieainst the attorney who had commenced these pro them most highly to be esteemed, but this he (Sir S. • ceedings, and against Mr. Polack, who had instructed Lushington) would say, without any hesitation, if they him, without delay. Since he had last addressed the were to be tried by their own expressed opinion upon House he had received a letter signed " J. Po this occasion they k new not t h e d ut i es o f thi s House—lack," stating that these proceedings had been they knew not the functions which they had to commenced, without his authority or knowledge, and that perform—they knew not wh a t was required of them—they knew not what they were bound having obtained damages from the Times newspaper, he had given instructions to his attorney not to proceed to do.—(Hear, hear, hear.) If, the House sub with the other actions. This showed that it had been mitted to that judgment—if they were to burn their papers at, the end o f eac h S e ssi o n, they would destroy his interest to have instituted other actions, but that having obtained a verdict, he had not thought proper to the circul a tion whi c h sprea d trut h th roug h the country proceed with them. He considered this letter a suf -which enabled the people to judge whether they were ficient vindication of the course which he had adopted, doing their duty—which explained to their constituents instead of at once proceeding more vigorously against matters which it was for their benefit to understand— the attorney and against Mr. Polack, but this did pre and which enabled the country to see the manner in elude the necessity for coming to these resolutions. which they administered the high functions with What he had read was merely a letter, and was not in which they were entrusted.—(Hear, hear.) The Court the shape of a petition to the House, so that the House of Queen's Bench, professing to d ecide the matter upon precedent, had rejected those sound and important pre- could take cognizance of it ; and as notice of action had cedeots whi c h wou ld h ave warrante d anot h er conc l u - been given to Messsrs. Hansard it was necessary that the House should take that opportunity of I sion, and had resorted to others which ought never to declaring the intention to all parties, and whe i have been acknowledged.—(Hear, hear.) But really they these proceedings were so or not, it would be a - no more could be said upon the question. There was waving to other parties how they considered similar first the s p eec h o f t h e Ri g h t H on. B aronet th e Mem proceedings could be sufficient to show that in any ber for T amwor th, a year or two ago—remarkable for its talent—for it s ors :suit and for its does- case of contest the House was determined to vindi p sign—(Hear, hear, hear)—then y, there was the speech cute its right of publication. With regard to what of the Att orney -G enera l i n C ourt — (Hear, hear) steps should be taken, and to the advise which had been given as to how far the House should interfere —and last of all there was the speech which had been made in th a t H ouse b y the Hon. and Learned Sergeant with those Judges who were sworn to the discharge the Member for Newark (Sergeant Wilde), unparal- of the duties, it was a matter of serious consideration— leled inability—(L ou d c h eers )—b r illi ant i n ,lucidity— and he could not say what course he would advise when suclia case should be brought before them. But (Cheers)—in argument, not a word that did Iyd:A follow he thought the course so ably and so eloquently pointed as an inevitable consequence—(Hear, hear)— and as a out:by an Hon. and Learned Gentleman the other night, Parliament ar y l awyer , as a man verse d i n t h e C on stitu- would be the one most calculated to prove effectual in tion of his country, his Hon. and Learned Friend must pressing the dignity of that House. ever stand foremost, if only on account of that :speech. Sir R. PEEL explained. —(Loud cheers.) Let not the House, however, shut Mr. O'CONNELL, before proceeding to a division, their eyes to the consequences of their interposition in wished to ascertain if the letter of Shaw was genuine, this matt er —t remen d ous as t h ey m i g h t b e ; t h e wisdom and with that view suggested the postponement till to was to presume the best—but certainly they should me prepar e d f or t h e worst. They must be prepa.-ed for morrow. encountering . the poputar outcry ag a i ns t them, as at- Lord HOWICK thought the ascertaining that fact t eking th e henit legal aufhorities of th e country-' - thy was immaterial. Messrs. Hansard had received a no tice of action—they had applied to the House, and b m e u i st be prepared f or great unpopularity at first,!eying as he did, th at t h e power contended for b' was had been desired to take no notice of any proceedings, necessary to the publi c we lf are , h e d eclared that, as far as they were bound to protect them, and whether the letter his humble character was of any weight, he would grad: 'y was genuine or not, it was of the utmost importance share any amount of unpopularity that might be thy, they should agree to this resolution. result of c on t en di ng f or t hi s privilege.—(Hear, hear.) The House then divided, when there appeared— A few word s as t o t h e i r course of proceeding. He For the resolution thought the course which his Noble Friend had reeorn- Against it mended was the right one. They could not at present i Majority proceed against the attorney, ys w who had not hitherto BANK OF IRELAND. Ire adopted any legal proceedin hear.) te " . But the moment' 't—hes h action, he (Sir S. what must, indeed,(Cries of . Hear, attorney b rou ght Lushington) would ;lily ise suggest itself to b el ise, that against the attorney, and against individual acting with him, the House shou a ld ny every oy, O n the • motion that the Report on the Bank of land Acts be received, Mr. O'CONN ELL objected to its reception at pre sent. They had received no information from the Chancellor of the Exchequer relative to two sums " 1. ' e , a r which the Bank of Ireland had at interest, one of four prow( l{ i f with povferful coercive measures.—(Hear, hear.) . and another of five per cent., being an average of wool' 1 41. 7s. fid. per cent., before the renewal of the Charter , they went only half- wa y an d t h en stoo d st i ll, they the House ought to be informed of the disposition of e secure their own defe a t an d di sgrace, an d d preciatt this sum. There had been no arrangement made with the character of the Ho use i n th e eyes o f the count ry. --• ' (Hear, hear.) They m i g ht h ave to proceed t ats the Bank of Ireland, and lie should like to know what er g g after rangement it was proposed to enter into on this subject. length—to commit so li c it or after solicitor—counsel counsel—they might h ave t o go f urt h er st ill —poss ib ly, The Chancellor of the Exchequer had reproached him because he had said he had paid 23 , 0001 . too he did no t d eny, t h oug h h e hoped not—they mig ht hale to commit th e J u d ges themselves (Hear, heal ..) much to the Bank of Ireland ;in consequence of that Deeply should h e regret t h at b y any difficulty — the Pim se Ire had looked into the subject , and it was h i s o p inion l, 1, that the debt to the Bank of Ireland might have been should b e d r i ven to such a step. But if they sham he trusted that they would not abandon their cause.- , -, paid off at any time, as there were no words in the (Hear, hear.) It tens said that they Act which prevented the Crown from doing so at any to the end of a Session—that the action ?" e in m the e ' time. At all events, it mieht have been paid off on the recess, be brought to a conclusion,judgme n t entered,. e e would the Holes e Ist of January, 18:38 ' . Now, every one was aware that and so on. What was then to be doo money then might have been got much cheaper than a it f e was asked, re-argue the case, and punish the part:, s i 41. is. 6d. per cent. At any time previous to that ea t se rwards ? To this he would reply—Re-argu e t 's e t period a single line of an advertisement would have not ; but punish the parties he tit '- procured the money on much lower terms. Why was certainlydtai.ludbtheedl would—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear")-- - the question brought before the House at such a late . A, oped it would be distinctly understood that is '• period of the Session, and at a time when money was las he doubted would be the case, the action wen : scarce, and consequently dear ? ThelChancellor of the 'brought to c t o h n . clusion after the prorogation of Par. ingExchequer had stated no reason whatever for bring liament, that breach heir this ri 1 e House ges_ t i v i v o o u u g l i d l consider i committed equally du- a forwardlB3B, the measure at that period, except that in ,(one, ring their satinupon. him. .He would not again enter into ttie quess (Hear, h ear, hg —and would punish it accordingly,--• hoped that the e Pl r o .) non of deception or no deception—he had never mill In conclusion he most fervently there had been intentional deception, but the depute duty the would not abandon carion, the ,on this oc- tions were certainly led to believe that something would (Cheers.) - y owed to the publi • cat large.— have been done list Session. That was the way in which Mr. FRESHFTE L • doubt which t hey were treated—the measure was delayed until nearly state the conscientious D wished with diffidence to the close of the Session without any reason, but merely his mind as to theiporredsent which pressed upon Lords had published Reporte tiaat it was the will of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the House of denie in d question—they had comneunicated privileeed th r i r H tte o r os in admitted that a ,ld the consequence was, that it not being a party ques then, he was compelled to address nearly empty benches. a privileged manner. had a clear right to publish of their proceedin s to h e. tii the case p na : l e: : i r t g e ( 1, 1 . a. He protested against such treatment ; and having done osition of the so, and not wishing to discuss that which had already extent which the necessity been discussed fully, he would only further observe, that felt a difficulty in negativing t this Noble Lord. He was prepared to ^ r° ' the Chancellor of the Exchequer had given an undue magnitude to the question in dispute. Some would be House might direct that, by means t° led to believe that the Bank of Ireland was some grand of Messrs. Han sard, or any other persons, a certain & ~ n d mighty engine of great public importance, re g ulating publication of • their proceedings should take place.tt se currency and the course of Exchange. Now, what He attached no distinction to the sale, or to the non -sal V? As the fact Where the Bank of England, with its eof the ' • • ? document. But he doubted whether the 2 A millions of securities, its 18 millions of circulation, House could_ claim to treat the q uestion as one of privileg e suggested whether the proper course of proceedin g ; and he• . : 1 - of ' dd the e, rcu ation the Bank of Ireland was only onean - would net be by bills, not declaratory, but • - a-half e at•ll . i inns • and its circulation within the limits for _ enacting ;. II - • ' and thereby, deciding the question . . in the only way in w leo he fought was only one million one hundred which it appeare d thousand p o unds, and it was for that paltry circulation arrivedto him that the decision could effec tually beat. He would observe that there was that the Char, cellor of the Exchequer wanted to con a publication whichthe House could not possibly claim tame a monopo Ty. He (Mr. O'Connell) had said g to protect—which something to show tl _ the demerits of the Bank, but it species of publication,yet was the most useful was for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to show followed the ass and one which necessarily merits sufficient to justify the continuance of the ,_ assertion of the right now urged for—he monopoly. " In free letaking towns the Post -menteodrt eh s which took place after the docu- office revenue had riven twenty-five per cent. House pesfi,t, E ands of their printe - C ld ' re. _Jou tne ' uply Protect the • while in Dublin it had decreased twenty-five per cent., which , might subsequent . successiv e republicatior,s ly follo w their • • . makine a difference of no less than fifty per cent. ; and , documents ? publication of tl e • . 3 ' while Belfast and other free banking places were firm- [ rFIE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, AUGUST 2, 1839. rishing Dublin, in place of having one hundred manu- had been brought forward at a very improperly late period factoring establishments, had now only fifteen. He of the Session, and he hoped . that a . period would . arrive when there would be a full and fair discussion of the ques would only further remind Gentlemen that the question before the House was for the continuance of an odious tion, when the Chancellor of the Exchequer would show why the Charter of the Bank of Ireland should be re monopoly. That was not a question of free banking— Hewed, which hitherto he had not done—and moreover not a question of one pound notes—but the real ques- prove how the abolition of the monopoly could produce tion was whether one single bank should have the power those over issues of which the Right Hon. Gentleman was of issuing paper money to any amount it pleased. He so fond of exciting the apprehensions of the House. — must protest against the principle, and he would feel it (Hear, hear.) It was quite proper that Joint-stock Banks to be his duty to divide the House upon every stage of should be placed under all necessary regulations. But the Bill. the principle should be carried to its legitimate extent, and should be taken of the central bank of WOOD said he should vote withissue. the Mr. A. YATES agreed in what had fallen fro m the equal T Honourable and Learned Member for Dublin , and l‘lr. careT. Hon. Member for Dublin, bat he wished to correc t some would vote along with him. The sooner the errors which he always heard and lamented on discuss ions of Charter of the Bank of Ireland expired he thought this nature.—( A laugh.) He often heard the phrase banking the better, as it would force on the consideration of a money used—as applied to what he considered the phrase better system of banking for this country. The conse- it had no correct application—viz., paper not issued by the quences of a pernicious and unlimited paper system Government or the Bank of England as a legal tender. were now but too apparent in America at the present If a person issued a note or bond on mortgage, whether it moment ; and in France, so great was the horror of was for 10,000/., 1,0001., or 11. it was but an acknow the people at paper money, that, except in the environs ledgment of debt. It was not the issue of paper money. of Paris, there was none in circulation in the country. The distinction was important ; whatever regulations should He saw no reason why the whole debt to the Ba nk of law Ireland applied to the latter , every individual had the right b y Ireland should not be placed upon the Three - a rid-a- to get into debt—( Laughter)—and of course it followed that Half per Cents., which were now at par. Nor did he see he should have the right of issuing acknowledgments o f debt, and hence it necessarily resulted that nothing should how a termination being put to the Charter of the prevent the transfer of these acknowledgments to second, Bank of Ireland should cause a run for gold. The third, and fourth parties. He contended, therefore, that Hon. Gentleman quoted some figures, and compared the House had no right to interfere with the issue of such the Joint-stock Banks in Scotland with those of Eng - acknowledgments as Joint-stock Bank notes. For it was land, but in so low a tone of voice as to render it im- an error to suppose that a bill of exchange, or a promissory impossible to follow him. note was more essentially paper money when payable on The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER demand, than when payable twelve months after date. would confine himself strictly to the new matter which In Lancashire for 60 years there had been no circulation had been introduced that evening, as he was unwill- of cash it untilbut the a comparatively habits o f the recent P Ll ti n e o dt.. they ing to trespass longer upon the time of the lawallowed referredbills at three months to cash notes; Peop everything de y - House than was absolutely necessary. The Ho- Preferred upon the habits of the people, and bills at three or nourable Member wished to separate the trade of a ? tweive months were as much paper money as any other. banker who did not issue money from the prerogative There was another error into which the Right Hon. Gen of a banker who issued promissory notes. He (the tleman had fallen ; he said the Joint-stock Banks should Chancellor of the Exchequer) th oug ht that a most de- have curtailed the issues. Ho had attributed the panic sireable thing, and the nearer they came to a central of 1825 to the error, as t he was pleased to call it, in this bank the nearer would they come to such a system. respect, and said that if the banks had curtailed the issues He did not deny that there were many inconvenien- in 1823, the panic of 1820 would never have happened. cies connected with Joint-stock Banks, but he did not If they had done so , then the panic would have happened i n 1824, instead of in 1825 ; the prosperity of 1823, 1824, stock principle.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was, he be on that account undervalue the a lication of the joint pp and 1825 was entirely owing to the issue of notes. The Right Hon. Gent. should recollect the d istr e ss of 1820, lieved, the safest principle on which banking could be which Lord Castlereagh had declared to be a monetary carried on. The cases of abuse which had occurred, so distress, to remedy which he bad brought in five monetary far from shaking the confidence of the public, confirmed measures in one day ; and Lord Castlereagh was right, for the principle of Joint-stock Banks, if well regulated.— if he had not adopted some such measure as this no Go. (Hear.) It would be a great misfortune if the share- vernment could have existed in England much longer. The holders were to withdraw their capital from these banks panic of 1825 was not owing to the issue of one pound notes. and the public were to withdraw their confidence. The Lord Liverpool well knew that panic was owing to his Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin (Mr. O'Connell) own laws, but he wanted a scape-goat, and he fixed upon had enquired as to the amount of the capital. All the the unfortunate country bankers. He said they had de accounts which could be rendered on this subject had lu g e dthe a country ere t icreating with these ut. s to one ek 3at, pound k s notes, w h l e a n il d e so s a hr i d been laid on the table, but if the Hon. Member wished sweeatu about would be more prudent Joint-stock i dent and more oWerful. They had for any details he should be happy to furnish them. In them in Scotland and in America, and why should they the Report on Joint-stock Banks, in 1837, he would find not have them in England? These Joint-stock Banks had the amount of the Bank of Ireland capital, and the been instituted for one object and had accomplished ano debt between them and the Government. The first ther. As an old banker he was glad to see them insti debt contracted in 1783 amounted to 600,0001. Irish tuted, because he knew they would bring a large mass of currency. wealth, and of experience, and of confidence, and of cre- Mr. O'CONNELL had not asked for the amount, but dit to the uses of industry. They had done so, and by what what was to be done with it now. these means labour had been kept alive. One bank had The CHANCELLOIZ of the EXCHEQUER would advanced 800,0001. to two manufacturing. houses in Lan state the amount and the period of payment, and then cashire, and that had all been expended in the wages of what was to be done as to the repayment. The 600,000/ labour. Having been proposed in this country they had to which he had just referred, was to be repaid on the been proposed in Ireland, and he thought if a Joint-stock Corporation being dissolved. In 1797 the sum of Bank was proper Ety miles from Dublin, it was equally 500,000/. was advanced, to be repaid at the same time. proper in Dublin itself; if it was proper in Birmingham In 1808, 1,250,0001. was advanced, to be repaid at the dis- it must be equally proper in London. There should be solution of the Corporation, or at the pleasure of the Go- no line of demarcation. They tended to support the ne vernment, on six months being given. In le2l there were tion under the pressure of those laws which the Chancellor advanced 500,0001., to be paid on the Ist January, 138 of the Exchequer supported, but which the nation would not The Hon. Member had suggested that he (the Chancellor be able to support much longer. This m eas u r e of 1819 of the Exchequer) might have dealt with this on cheaper had ruined the country banks of Ireland—in the course of terms than he could at present; but he thought the debt 1820, 1521, and 18 9 2, 50 out of 58 Irish banks had stopped could not be paid off on better terms than those which he payment, and they were ruined not only in money but in cha nowproposed. In round numbers he would assume they were ratter, a n d d e n o u n ced as swindlers, when it was the effect o f paying 4,1 per cen t. H e p ro p o sed t o re d uce this debt at that law, and that law alone, which no one had ever ex once to 3i per cent. ; and if the Honourable Member pected to see passed. In 1825, the English bankers were thought he could obtain 3.000,000/. on lower terms, denounced in the same way—they hal been forced to stop he entertained a very different opinion of the state payment in consequence of the ruinous effects of this l aw , of the money market from th a t which he (the upwards sixty of them had paid 20s. in the pound, and Chancellor of the Exchequer) en tertained, and it none had paid so little as 10s.—( Hear, hear.) If they was very doubtful whether better terms could have been ob- could brine - back England to the state she was in tained at a previous time. The Hon. Member had stated that in 1609, then it m ight do to have a metallic standard, some offer had been ma d e as t o th e payment of the debt, but that burden which Mr. Pitt had found too grievous to but he was not con s ci o us o f an y suc h offer. He wished to he borne in 1797, could not be borne now. As to over bring this question forward fairly, and hail not withheld issue, it was impossible that any bankers could issue more from the Bank of Ireland any censure which he thought than the necessities of their neighbours and the country re its conduct justly deserved. It was utterly impossible, quired, because if they did, it would be returned on their with a view to the s a fe management of these banks, that hands, and would also affect their credit. He should cer it could be effected in any other way than by a central tainly support the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member agency, unfettered wholly by any local circulation of its for Dublin. own, as he had proved when the subject was formerly Mr. ELLIS (of Newry), thought the proposed advan before the House. The Hon. Member had said that the tages might be bought at too high a price. In his opi decay of certain branches of trade in Dublin was a proof nion it would be better to bring in a short Money Bill to of the mischief of the Bank of Ireland, but it was to be settle matters for the present year, and the whole question traced altogether to other sources. Other causes might might receive proper consideration next year. account for the alteration of the postage than those alluded Mr. CRIPPS wished he could convince the lion. Mem to by the Hun. and Learned Member, because the change ber for Birmingham, that the re-issuing of one-pound which had taken place in the mode of charging letters had notes would be as injurious to the best interests of the lessened the revenue in one place and increased it in ano- country as the suppression of them had been at the time. ther. He now wished to call the attention of the House That was his opinion. to the present state of the proceedings. He was now Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. The House asking to introduce a Bill, and if he was not allowed to do divided, when there appeared— so the monopoly would be continued, and Joint-stock For the motion 6l Banks would be refused those privileges which were essen- Against it tial to their prosperity. As it was impossible to alter the Majority state of the banking law in England till 1844, the same On our re-admission we found duration ought to be given to the privileges of the Bank Mr. O'CONNELL, addressing the House—He corn of Ireland, in order that they might then be placed on the piained that he had received no satisfactory answer to the same footing. On these grounds he trusted the House questions he had put. He had been shown no reason why would see no objectiou to agree to the resolutions. the Bills should be pressed now, or why they should not In answer to an observation of Mr. O'CONNELL, have been brought forward earlier in the Session. Ile The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said would feel it to be his duty to divide the House upon every if the resolutions were passed by a large majority, he possible occasion on the question. should instantly communicate them to the Governor and The Resolutions having been read over and agreed to, Company of the Bank of Ireland, and as soon as a Bill was The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved introduced he should also lay it before them, requesting to for leave to bring in a Bill founded upon the Resolutions. know if they assented to it, which he had every confidence Mr. O'CONNELL—It is my duty, Sir, to divide the they would. House upon that question. Mr. A. YATES wished to explain why he could not Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. The House vote for the Bill ; because he considered that it would be divided, when there appeared— time enough when the Charter of the Bank of Ireland ex- For the motion . 68 pined in the next Session to settle the whole system of Against it l6 banking—revising the Joint Stock Bank circulation. Majority Mr. GISBORNE agreed in scarcely any of the prin- ADMIRALTY COURT BILL. ciples which had been laid down as to banking by the Right On our re-admission, we found the House in Committee Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; but he felt it on the Admiralty Court Bill, and would be highly inconvenient to enter into that discussion Mr. WILLIAMS complaining of the addition to be at the present period.---( Hear.) He would, therefore, made to the salary of the Judge, as being much out of rather learn from the Right Hon. Gentleman what future proportion to his duties. Lord Stowell was the Judge in that opportunity there would be of having that discussion. As Court for a period of 15 years of peace,when the emoluments the Right Hon. Gentleman wished the Bill to circulate were the same as now, and he asked no increase of salary, in Ireland, previous to the second reading, in order to although his influence with the Government was such, ascertain the feelings of the people concerning it, con- that it would not have been opposed. Sir Christopher s idering it was now the month of August, when did the Robinson left one of the most lucrative practices at the Right Hon. Gentleman expect the second reading to bar to fil the situation, (as did Sir John Nichol,) and he come on ? The Charter of the Bank of England would should like to know why the present judge required a expire in four years. Who could doubt that it would be higher salary than had been paid for the last 24 years. renewed? The Bank would only have to get up a kind This was one of the many acts of extravagance brought of panic, just when the Charter expired, and the Chan- forward by the present Government, which was altogether cellor of the Exchequer, for the time being. would renew uncalled for, and he was sure if the Right Hon. Baronet it. Now he (Mr. Gisborne) should like to attack those opposite ( Sir R. Peel) were in office, he would object to two enemies—for enemies he considered them—the any such increase. There was another clause providing a Banks of England and Ireland, separately. He should retired allowance of 2,0001. a year, to which he decidedly like to kill the little viper first, that he might be the better objected. He thought a salary of 3,0001. a year amply able to manage the large serpent afterwards.—( A laugh.) sufficient for an individual who could perform the duties of He should object to any renewal of the Bank Charter at this office, as well as the duties of Judge in the Consistory all.—( Hear, hear.) He was now for the first time an Court of London and the Consistory Court of Rochester, Irish Member, and when ha saw a Bill introduced for im- and therefore moved as an amendment, that the salary be posing a monopoly on his constituents, he could not 3,0001. instead of 4,0001. see why any terms should be observed towards it. Mr. C. IN OOD said that the emoluments of Lord He considered that almost per fas et nefas —it Stowell during the war were nearer 7,0001. than anything 0 , ,ill the thethe second Hiil at was allowable to resist it, by all the means else, and in now fixing the salary at a regular sum, it was which Parliamentary forms permitted. He should vote deemed necessary to take into consideration that circum with his Hon. Friend the Member for Dublin, reserving stance. Besides there was a considerable amount of principlesbusi hreisadoinpgin,ioanndasdetcolathrienghisntheesrsefaedred,eddidtonetthtehindkuttiheise s o a f lar t y he tee Le la a r r g n e e . d Judge. He, intentionof bankingto opp every stage. Mr. WALLACE believed the Judge was not required Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN said he was incapable of a fat- to do much duty during the year, and the only argument tious opposition, but he considered it most improper to urged for this increase was that the Learned Judge's pre press this Bill at a period of the Session when the Irish decessor had enjoyed large emoluments during the war. Members generally had left, seeing that five-sixths of But we were not now going to war, and it would be a suffi those Irish Members even who supported the Govern- cient answer to that argument to propose an increase of ment were opposed to the Bill, and he thought he should salary when war actually took place.—(Hear, hear.) be justified in throwing every difficulty in the way of its There were plenty of individuals well qualified for the of proceeding. But he wished to appeal to the Chancellor of flee, who would perform the duties for 3,0001, a year, and the Exchequer whether there could not be a compromise he should therefore support the amendment. effected, on the suggestion of the Learned Member for Sir J. GRAHAM said that Sir John Nichol had rocom- Dublin (who on this subject was certainly disinterested mended that the appointment of Judges to these enough, as he more regarded the interests of his consti- Courts should be permanent, and when asked what tuents than his bank)—that the exclusive circle should be salary he would suggest, he said 3,0001. a-year. only 20 miles around Dublin. On those terms he should —(Hear, hear.) The amount of fees received by withdraw his opposition to the Bill. the Judges of the two Courts, was 6,0001. a-year, the abo- Mr. HUTTON said he was reluctant to agree with lition of which he recommended, in order that a regular the principle of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, salary might be substituted. He ( Sir J. Graham) agreed which went to abolish the exclusive: privileges of the as to the propriety of giving adequate remuneration to a Bank of Ireland. He thought those exclusive privileges, Judge occupying so high a station as the Judge of the Ad as to the issuing of notes, less objectionable than would miralty Court ; but he should wish to know why the evi the allowing of an unlimited issue of notes. Still he had dente of Sir J. Nichol on the subject had been laid aside ? many and strong objections to the provisions of the Bill. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the opinion But he wished to give the Chancellor of the Exchequer of Sir John Nichol, though entitled to great respect, the opportunity of bringing in the Bill, hoping that it was , after all, but t he o p inion of an individual; would prove satisfactory, and reserving to hiraself the right another important question was, not the number of days of opposing the details should they not appear sa ti s f ac t ory , during which the J u dge would be occupied, but the class Mr. CLAY said it would certainly be very inconve- of the profession from which it was proper to select to client to discuss the general principles of banking now, it high a judicial officer.—(Hear, hear, hear.) And if ‘ld indeed,be useless in a House like the present it were found, as be believed it would, that the pro hare:aeoe , the y forty Members). As to Bank of England, ( e , , : Iqualifiedwere those who made annually h e per y persons . . Kof an imputation of absolute imbe- 5,0001., 6,000/., or 7,000/. by the profession, it was no mutt incur the risk answer to say avowing' his conviction that the duties were no t ver y extensive.— c ility front his Hon. Friend the Member for Carlow, by • that the Bank of England would (Hear, hear.) Certainly in time of p eace, the business never get i renewed on the present terms. H e transacted in these Courts was co m p arativel y sli g ht. believed mien were; completely . ts Deaner convinced of the necessity o f But he knew that the professional ge n t lemen p racti s i ng a calm, full, and de'iberate inquiry into the principles on there di d not obtain their chief emoluments in these Courts ; s. which the monetary system of the country should be regu- a nd this he could state of the Right Hon. and Le a r ned . 1 dthat the resultof believed lated.—( Hear.) And .ho Bank of England Charter larly in question, that he was engaged in almost every inquiry would be that the existing conditions. Scotch Appeal case, and almost every Ecclesiastical case, would not be renewed oil the besides Admiralty its " the viper before hecases, and other business.—(Hear, His Hon. Friend had talked of k it , 'u tration, erhaps, but hear.) It could not be denied that it was necessary to attacked the serpent"—a good - ;la s eated the P practice of secure for jedicial offices the first talent and ability, and not a sound argument, for he depi'ee' . (Hear, hear) he could not conceive a ' more miserable y, economy than considering these Corporations as ene.rre les— e tary sys- that of so diminishing the salaries of Judges as to rechide —but rather as important elements in t T ie' rime tter regulated the benefit of the first rate talent.— tem of the country ; which would both be let'(Hear, hear.) r, The Charter Let it be observed that by the present Bill together than separately.—( Hear, hear.) • the fees would be paid into Consolidated H of the Bank of England not terminating sooner' • than 1841, had mould calculated that durin the fort 'ears there had he considered the paper circulation of Engq:ClL been more received g last y 3'period not than there would be in the same i not be well settled without at the same time setti.:lo. the under this D uring 14 years of war, the emo - paper circulation of the sister kingdom.—(Hear, li.u .r ' ' ments Lad Bill. been 7,0001. per annum, and 26 years at He would ask his Hon. Friend what they could expee. • 3,0001., that would be 180,000/ , whereas the pre from the opposition they were now giving to the measure? ! sent systere woulde 160,000/. Though . only give They could not pre ven t t h e monopo l y o f t h e B an k of i ee. - ta nl' y ' there' would be the retiring pension of 2,000 /. Ireland by preventing the int ro d uc ti on pf thi s Bill. The only result would be that they w ou ld p reven t th e Charter Sir J. GRA IIAM w i s h e d to know if the Government intotied to fount! any measure on the report of the Com from being altered, that it would continue as it now did, that the country would lose a saving of 23 ; 0001. a-year in mitt ee ae to the Ecclesiastical Courts, and to provide espe the way of interest, and that th e J o i n t- s t oc k Banks would cially for ~he interchange of jurisdictions between those not obtain several important advantages, which the Chan- Courts and fee Admirats'y Courts.—( Hear, hear.) cellor of the Exchequer was desirous of giving them. Lord JO/1N Rle ssEL , I, said that Report as to the Mr. D. NORRE YS said he considered the measure Eccleeieeeical Courts had not - been lost sight of. A mca- -41 sure had been introduced upon it durinethelGovernment of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, and anoth er . by the present Government. But he understood it was the opinion of the Prelates of the Church that no measure re lative to the Ecclesiastical Courts could be satisfactory, unless connected w ith th e su bject of Church discipline. Now, the Bill as to Church discipline had met unex pectedly with great opposition and difficulty in the House of Lords. Still it was the intention of the Government to proceed with the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill. With regard to the Admiralty Court, let the House consider that the Judge was at the head of a very important branch of law, and that the puisne Judges of other Courts received 5,0001. each; the superior Judges, 8,0001. The Judge of the Admiralty Court would often have to decide in time of war questions of international law on which Stat's might be ready to contend. Ought he not then to be a man of great talent, learning, and experience ? Nothing could be more unworthy or pitiable than to relinquish these important considerations for the miserable saving of 1,0001. or so, or to measure the salary of a Judge by the days he sat, weighing out his merit by the pound, as it were, instead of looking to higher and infinitely more valuable qualifications. Sir J. GRAHAM fully concurred in this principle, but he wished to observe that the Judge of the Arches Court—a Court superior to the Admiralty Court—had less than 4,0001., and was paid in a most objectionable man ner by fees. Mr. C. WOOD must maintain notwithstanding all that had been said by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite with respect to the evidence and opinion of Sir J. Nichol, that 4,0001. a year was not too much to secure the services of a competent Judge, and he believed he would have been supported on that by a near relative of that late excellent Judge had he been in his place. Sir R. PEEL said, if the Judge of the Admiralty was to have 4,000/. a year it would be unjust and derogatory to the Ecclesiastical Judge not to give him a like salary. He had come down to the House thinking that 4,0001. a-year was not too much, and the only ques tion now with him was the evidence that had been given by Sir J. Nichol. He thought the mind of that Learned Judge was so constituted that he would rather under than overrate the value of his talents. He thought 4,000/. a year was not too much, and that it was a miserable eco nomy that did not enable the country to command the first rate talents for its Judges. Mr. HUME thought the whole scale of judicial salaries was too high.—( Hear, hear.) He contended that the first-rate talents in the country could be procured for 3,000 t. a year. Before long, he was convinced, the whole of the judicial salaries must be reduced, for the people could not afford the expenses that were entailed upon them by those officers at present. The present Judge had taken the office at a salary of 2400/. a year, and he could not see any reason why it should now be raised to 4,0001. unless the Government had made a promise to the present Learned Judge to that effect. Mr. WA KLE Y thought they were pursuing a reckless course, from which he did not anticipate they would recede as long as the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tam worth supported the present Government, and acted as their Protector-General against their unrelenting foes, the Radicals.—( Cheers.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER de fended the increased rate of salary to the Judge of the Admiralty Court, on the ground that a similar in crease had been made to a similar Judge in Ire land during the Administration of the Right Ho nourable Baronet the Member for Tamworth.—( Hear.) Sir ROBERT PE EL said that although be had no confidence in the Government, yet if they adopted prin ciples of which he approved, he would rather support them in those principles that form a factious union with the Radicals. He had advocated an increase in the sala ries of the Judges, when in power, and he would not desert his principles. The unanimous impression of himself and his friends was that 4,0001 a-year was not too much. Mr. AG LIONB Y had understood the Right Hon. Baronet to state that before he came down to the House he had been prepared to vote for 4,0001. a year; but that since he had been in the House he had heard the state ments of Sir John Nichol, and had in consequence con sidered 3,0001. a year sufficient.—( No, no.) He had cer tainly understood the Right Hon. Baronet to say, that had he been in office, he should have been held to 3,0001. a year. Mr. T. ATT WOOD wished to know what were the salaries of the Judges in the year 1797. As the Right lion. Baronet had restored the metallic level, why ought not the salaries to be restored to the same level ? Mr. C. WOOD said the salary of the Admiralty Judge to 1797 was 4,5001. a year, and he had a retiring pension of 2,000/. a year.--( A laugh.) Mr. WALLACE had expected when he came down to the House that all the official Members would vote for the increase, and he did not think he should be disappointed. Mr. WILLIAMS wished to know the amount of the fees and emoluments. Mr. HAWE S thought the Judge of the Court of Ad miralty should be placed upon the same footing as to Salary as the Puisne Judges, and that would make it about 4,0001. a year. The Committee then divided, when there appeared-- For the clause Against it 35 Majority in favour of the clause —45 Mr. HUME moved the following addition to the clause, " Acid be it further enacted, that any such Judge, here after to be appointed, shall, during his continuance office as Judge, be incapable of being elected or sitting as a Member of the House of Commons. He had originally intended to apply it to the present occu pant of the office, but as he had been elected since his appointment Ito kthat office , he did not think it would be quite fair, and therefore ho s hould only propose it to have a prospective operation. Mr. HOWARD—As the proposition was now divested of its personal character, would second the motion. Lord JOHN RUSSELL objected to the proposition, on the ground that in principle these exclusions were generally bad, as tending to deprive the House of Com mons of the services of men of talent. He had, after con siderable deliberation, consented to vote for the exclusion f the Commissioner of Police, because his peculiar duties might interfere with his legislatorial functions. He thought there was no reason why the House should be deprived of the benefit of the opinion either of the Master of the Rolls, or of the Judge of the Admiralty Court. Some of the most accomplished men who had ever sat in that House had held these offices. Would it have been ad vantageous that the House should have been deprived of the services either of Sir William Grant or of Sir J. Scott, two of the most eminent men who had ever sat in that House ? If the people of the Tower Hamlets were deprived of the benefit of having their present distinguished representative in the House, it would be a great hardship and loss to that particular constituency and the public in general. There was no reason► to suspect that the judicial position held by Sir J. Scott and Sir W. Grant, ever tended to corrupt their votes. Again, stating that the House and the public would lose much by the exclusion of such judicial officers from the House, he should oppose the proposition. Sir R. PE EL did not think that the wishes of a con stituency to have a Judge in Parliament should be deci sive. He thought it better that Judges should be removed from the excitement of political contests. He did not think that a seat in Parliament would corrupt the deci sions of a Judge on the bench ; he might doubtlessly be as unbiassed as before, but his decisions would not receive the public confidence to the fullest extent. Another dis advantage from having international judges in the House was the probability that in the ardour of debate their speeches in the House would, in a great degree anticipate their decisions in the Court. If it did not, then their speeches must be made with reserve, and their opinions would not be of much value to the House. He recollected with what reserve Sir W. Grant and Sir J. Scott used to give their opinions. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL thought the same argument would apply to his Hon. and Learned Friend, the Recorder of the City of London—( Hear, hear, hear)—the Member for the University of Dublin— and Chairmen of Quarter Sessions.--( Hear, hear, and laughter.) Where would this question of the incompa tibility of judicial and legislative duties stop ? It would extend to Masters in Chancery, the Master of the Rolls, and many other officers. He thought it was of the greatest importance that they should have an eminent civilian in the House. He opposed the preposition. Sir JAMES GRAHAM supported the proposition. How equivocal would be the position which his Right Hon. Friend the Member for the Tower Hamlets would occupy when he had, as no doubt he frequently should have, to adjudicate, especially in war, in cases in which his consti tuents, amongst whom he had often boasted were the first shipowners of England, should be concerned? He thought also it might frequently happen that a Judge of the Ad miralty might give an opinion in a ease formed upon imperfect evidence, which, after mature consideration, he should have to rescind, or in the imperfection of human nature, to defend sooner than let it be seen that he had formed a wrong judgment. The evidence of Sir J. Nichol, who had been 30 years in Parliament, said his experience was against permitting a Judge to have a seat in that House. He did not mean to question the seat of the Right Hon. Gentleman in this Parliament, but be would exclude him from future Parliaments while he should hold his present office. Sir S. LUSH INGT ON had never entertained any doubt upon this question, because the judgment be had formed from his earliest days was, that all disqualifications were to be avoided where there was free representation.—( Hear.) The only ground of disqualification where a constituency could be depended upon was,where the party stated eitherfrom distance or some other circumstances, could not efficiently perform his duty. The ground upon which the Common Law Judges were excluded from that House was, that they were liable to be called upon to assist the House of Lords, which would be incompatible with a seat in the House of Commons. There was equal objection to the Master of the Rolls sitting in that House ; as to the Judge of the Admiralty, he assisted the Privy Council, as well as the latter Judge ; , and as to the statement that the Judge of the Ecclesiastical Court should be also excluded, Hon. Members who made that statement, should recollect that Mr. Vernon, who was at the head of the Perogative Court in York, had a seat in that House.—( Hear, hear.) He cared not for himself, but if the principle of exclusion was to be applied to one Judge, let it be carried out to its full extent, and let every Gentleman who held a judicial situation be ex cluded.—( Hear, bear.) Let nothing be done by peace meal, but let a general Bill be brought in, and let it apply to the Master of the Rolls, and all other Judges. But could such a measure be justifi able or constitutional ?—( Hear, hear, hear. )' What injury, he would ask, had resulted in past days from admit ting Judges to sit in Parliament ? Now he prayed there fore the House to pause before it adopted the proposition contained in the clause. He cared not for himself, the case was not his own, but those who might follow him ; and therefore it was that he could not allow the present opportunity to pass without making a few observations. Mr. VILL IE R S was against the exclusion of the Judge of the Admiralty Court from a seat in that House. If the principle of exclusion was carried out to the full it would apply to the whole House of Lords.—( Hear.) Every Peer was a Judge in the highest Court of Judicature in the country.— ( Hear, hear, hear.) They bad as yet experienced no inconvenience from Judges sitting in that House, and he must object to this capricious mode of legislation.--( Cheers.) Mr. C. BULLER said the exclusion of Judges from Parliament was grounded upon the desire to uphold the character of the Jud ges , w h o s h ou ld b e k e pt aloof from politics altogether, but be could not attach any importance to the arguments used as to the character of the peculiar constituency they represented. He agreed with the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton, that all the arguments equally applied to the sitting of the Judges in the House of Lords, and of the inconvenience of this they had re cently had an instance in which a Criminal Judge had been a party leader in the other House, b u t h e p ro t este d aga i ns t the application of this principle exclusively to that House. If they passed this clause they could never again permit a Master of the Rolls to sit in that House, and he would not be so uncharitable as to believe that when it was proposed to apply this principle to the Recorder of London, Hon. Gentlemen opposite would suddenly lose their horror at seeing the mixture of judicial and legislatorial functions. —(Cheers.) He would say apply the principle generally, but do not take advantage of a proposition for raising a Judge's salary to make a capricious application of this prin ciple to him alone.—(Cheers.) Mr. HA WE S thought if they admitted the principle proposed by the Hon. and Learned Member for the Tower Hamlets, they ought to repeal the clause in the Metropo litan Police Act excluding the Commissioners of Police from a seat in that House; but he considered it was com petent in that House to impose disqualification in any office. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said after the charge the Hon. Member had made in his motion, he considered the House was about to adopt a very partial course. Let them have a Bill excluding generally all persons holding judicial offices ; but to pass a law excluding the Judge of Admiralty, while the Recorders of London and Dublin were permitted to sit in that House, was a partial, he had almost said a party measure.—( Loud cheers.) Mr. HUME said, if he could, he would exclude all judicial officers from the House. The Committee then divided, when there appeared— For Mr. Hume's motion 5l Against it Majority against the proviso The first clause was then agreed to. On clase 2 being agreed to, Mr. WILLIAMS proposed to omit the proviso at the end of it. The Committee divided upon the question. There were— For the proviso 75 Against it Majority Clauses 3 and 4 were next agreed to. Mr. WILLIAMS proposed that clause 5, which pro vides a retired allowance, be struck out. After a few words from Mr. HUME and Mr. C. WOOD, The Committee divided, when there appeared— For the clause Against it 3 Majority for the clause —6s The clause was then agreed to. The remaining clauses in the Bill were agreed to with a few verbal amendments. Sir J. GRAHAM proposed a clause, rendering illegal the assignment of salvage money by seamen. Mr. C. WOOD thought the clause would be produc tive of much good, and he would therefore give it his support. Mr. WARBU RT 0 N doubted whether the clause would have the effect intended. He thought it was calculated to prejudice the parties it was intended to serve. Sir S. LUSHINGTON thought the clause essentially necessary, not only for the interest of seamen but the public at large. The clause was then agreed to. Mr. HUME proposed a clause to the effect that per sons having taken the degree of Doctor of Laws in the University of London might be admitted to practise in the Admiralty Court, in the same manner as those who had obtained similar degrees from the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge. Sir R. INGLIS objected to the clause, and if he was not successful in his opposition to it, he felt bound to express a hope that it would be thrown out in another place. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Committee divided, when there appeared— For the clause Against it 0 Majority —67 The clause was then agreed to, and the House resumed. BIRMINGHAM POLICE BILL. Lord JOHN RUSSELL proposed to discharge the Order of the Day for the Committees of this Bill in order that he might bring in a new Bill. Mr. C. BULLER suggested that it should be post poned instead of being discharged. Lord JOHN RUSSELL acceded to the suggestion. The Tithe Commutation Act Amendment Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed. The Highway Rates Bill was read a third time and passed. The Assaults (Ireland) Bill was reported and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. POOR LAW CONTINUATION BILL. On the Order of the Day being read for committing the above Bill, Lord WO RSLE Y said he did not like to subject him self to the charge of misrepresentation, and on searching the Journals he found the Right Hon. Baronet had voted on the Metropolis Police Bill on the loth of July, but had not voted on the Poor-law Continuation Bill. Sir R. PEEL said this was rather a strange charge to bring forward after the lapse of a fortnight. He had for thirty-seven days sat on a private Committee and might have very probably been absent from the divi sion alluded to ; but it was from no desire or intention of shrinking from the discharge of his duty. PORTUGUESE SLAVE TRADE. Sir S. LUSHINGTON gave notice that he should to morrow move for a Committee to search the Journals of the House of Lords, and report to the House the pro ceedings had upon the Portuguese Slave Trade Bill.— ( Loud cheering.) The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Half•past Two o'Clock. FLANDERS MAIL. A uossuao, JULY 28.—The Austrian Observer bas de tached accounts which, like our own, are to the 6th of July, and furnish the same particulars. They too mention the 25th as the day of the battle of Nisid, whereas the ac counts from Constantinople gives the 24th. Our letters from Alexandria, given by the Austrian Observer, and which is dated the sth of July, concludes with the follow ing words :—" Mehemet Ali affirms that a golden bridge will be made for the fugitives to return home, and that Ibrahim will pursue them beyond the Euphrates." On the other hand, a letter immediately following, dated Alex andria, the 6th of July, says, " Ibrahim Pacha writes from Aintab on the 28th of June, that he had directed three regiments of infantry and three of cavalry to occupy wrfa and Diarbekir, and that he had arrived at Aintab Oith the rest of the army on the 28th. The French Cap tain, Caille, arrived at Alexandrette on the 23d of June, where he stopped a day and a half, so that he probably did not reach Ibrahim Pacha's head quarters before the 30th of June. Mehemet Ali repeats his assurance that Ibrahim Pacha will stop in his pursuit as soon as Captain Caille reaches his camp.—Allgemeine Zeitung, July 28. THE CROPS AND THE WEATHER WORCESTERSHIRE.—The enormous quantity of rain which has fallen during the last three days, has had a most unfa vourable effect on the growing crops, and the hay which yet remains to be got in, though certainly not in any quantity hereabouts, will probably be rendered worth little or nothing by the visitation. This morning (Wednesday last) the Severn presented a very unusual appearance at this season of the year, being bank full, while the low mea dows lying adjacent to the river, including a portion of Pitchcroft, were inundated. A large tree, which had floated down with the stream, doubtless washed away by the sudden rise of the water, was secured by the fishermen this morning, and landed on the lower quay. It bore the appearance of having been recently felled. The Avon has also overflowed its banks to a considerable extent, and great damage we fear may be anticipated. Circumstanced as the country is at the present moment, the continuance of the peculiarly unpropitious weather, which has recently visited us, may well be the subject of the deepest anxiety, for it must be clear to every one that a second years' defi cient harvest must be attended with consequences painful to reflect upon and fearful to contemplate even at a dis tance.— Worcestershire Chronicle. EAST KENT.—The accounts of the forthcoming crops of corn in this district generally represent them to be most favourable. Wheat, although not so thick on the ground as in some years, promises an abundant yield. We have seen but very few pieces which have been injured by the late winds and rain, and as rarely have we met with any smut or deficiency in the ear ; the quality may therefore be expected to be good, and the yield may with safety be estimated rather to exceed an average growth. Barley is almost invariably good; it is generally ripening gradually, altough we have heard a few complaints of a too rapid change, and in some instances, of its being lodged. The produce will, in all probability, be much beyond an ave rage. Beans promise very favourably—the straw is higher than usual, and with few exceptions looks healthy—but as the pods are not so thick upon the stalk as we have sometimes witnessed, we do not think the produce will exceed that of last year. Peas, p ar ticularly the large greys, are exceedingly good. Some of the late crops have been injured by dolphin, but not to any extent ; the yield will certainly exceed our usua l produce. Oats are not so generally good as the other crops, he straw being in several districts very slight, but we think there will be but little reason to complain, and that the produce will be found nearly if not quite to reach an average growth. We consider the stock of old corn in this district to be more nearly exhausted than is usual at thin period of the year. —Kentish Times. SKYE.— learn from Skye, that the crops ISLAND OF never wore a more p ro mising aspect than they do at present in that island. Little or no wheat is grown, as the climate is too humid for this description of grain; but the oat and barley fields are all that could be wished. The rearing of cattle is carried on to a considerable extent. The potatoe fields, we regret to find, present blanks in many instances, but the general crop will not be much deficient. The fishings this season have been tolerably productive, with the exception of the salmon fishing, which in Skye, as in most other places, has proved a failure. Cod, ling, and herrings arc the staple products of the sea; and at Portree and other stations there has been considerable stir. A few weeks since, Mr. Mac donald, Scalpa, sailed for Hamburg with a cargo of her rings, which realised fair prices. —Inverness Paper. Accounts have been received at Liverpool that very considerable injury has been done to the crops by the late heavy rains. On many farms the hay has been com pletely washed away, and the grain in the neighbourhood of Cheshire presents a very unpromising appearance. Bu t for this unfa voura bl e weat h er ex pectations would have been realised of a speedy and very fruitful harvest. Although the wind has been for the last two days more tempestuous than we ever remember at this season, yet we are happy t o h ear t h at very li tt l e w h eat i s l a id in this neighbourhood, and if the weather should alter now, we believe the damage to the corn will not be very great ; the produce of a considerable number of acres of grass land is pretty well spoiled, but the rain has materially improved the turnips and rowens.—Brighton Gazette. Oxvoito.—The heavy rains during Tuesday, Wednes day, and Thursday, have done consid era bl e d ama ge in this neighbourhood, beating down the wheat in several places, so much as to occasion many fears that it may not get up again. Much hay has been previously carried, but we re gret to state that a good deal is still out, and though some of the grass is uncut, every day's delay is a loss and dis appointment to the farmers.—Oxford Herald. EVEN ENO EDITION. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. GOODWOOD RACES. THURSDAY. sous. ?Id ThceoltAsi,Aeach,h. winner ftb. before rre2 starting (matches o b l s e t s . c m b 71b., e and Stakes fillies, of 8 5 s 0 t (matches and handicaps excepted) Sib. extra ; the winner of the Levant Stakes 71b extra. T. Y. C. Ten subs. Lord G. Bentinck's b. f. Crucifix (J. Day.) 1 Mr. Sadler' s c h. c . D e f en d an t Lord Albemarl e ' s c h. f. I r i s The following also started but were not placed :—Lord Lich field's Firefly, Mr. Harris's Mariner, and Colonel G. Wyed ham's ch. c. by Nonsense, d. (foaled in 1830) by Maley. Betting-4 to lon Crucifix-6 to 1 agst Defendant-7 to 1 agst Iris. Won by a length. The Racing Sweepstakes of 50 sovs. each, for three-year-old colts, Bst. 71b., and lilies, Bst. 41b. ; the winner of the July, Clearance, Criterion, or Prendergast Stakes, 31b. extra; of either Ridcilesworth, Coleman, Newmarket, 2,000 guineas' 1,000 guineas, or Drawing-room Stak es; an d th e winner of the St. James's Palace Stakes, and 100 soya. Produce Stakes at Ascot, 61b. extra ; of the Derby or Oaks, 91b. extra ; winner of both Derby and Drawing-room Stakes, 121 b. extra. The new mile. 15 subs. Mr. Wreford's b. c. Westonian (J. Day) 1 Mr. Thornhill's b. f. Merganser 2 Mr. 13ower's b. c. Epidaurus 3 Lord Lichfield's br. c. The Corsair Colonel G. Wyndham's b. c. by Nimrod 5 Duke of Richmond's b. f. Reel 6 Betting--6 to 4 agst Epidaurus--5 to 2 agst Westonian-4 to 1 agst Merganser-5 to 1 agst Corsair—and 10 to 1 agst Col. G. Wyngham's colt. Won by a length. The Goodwood Cup of 300 sovs. (the rest in specie), by subs. of 20 sovs. each, with 100 added from the fund. The se cond to receive 100 sovs. out of the stakes. Cup Course. 46 subs. Mr. Ferguson's ch. c. Harkaway, 5 yrs, 9st. 41b.(Calloway) 1 Mr. Diron's b. c. Hyllas, 3 yrs, 6st. 101 b 2 Fulwar Craven's Deception, 3 yrs, 7st. 31b ...... .. 3 Mr. Ramsay's bl. h. Th e D octor, 5 yrs, 9st. 21 b . M-. Bowes's ch. h. Epi rus , 5 yrs, 9 st. 41b Duke of Richmond's Beggarman, 4 yrs, Bst. 111 b. Lord Exeter's b. c. B os ph orus , 3 yrs, 6 st. 10 1 b 7B Lord Exeter's ch. c. Al em d ar , 4 yrs, Bst. 5 1b . Lord Westminster's br. h. Richard Roe, 4 yrs. Bst. 111 b..• 9 Betting—Even on Harkaway-2 to 1 agst Deception-8 to 1 agst the Dector-12 to 1 agst Hyllus-20 to 1 agst Alemdarl and 50 to 1 agst Richard Roe. Won in a canter by two lengths. HERTFORD RACES.—WEDNESDAY. The Hertford Handicap of 15 sovs each, 13 ft., and only 5 &c., with 50 added. Two miles and a dis. 20 subs, of whom 11 declared. Mr. R. Boyce's ch c Hahneman, 4 yrs, 6st 121 b ...(J. Lee) 1 Mr. Meiklam's b m Modesty, 5 yrs, Est 61b 3 Mr. Balchin's Slang, aged, ist 91b ... 4 Mr. Lucas's gr h Tell Tale, 6 yrs, Bst 41b Mr. J. H. Munro's b g Bravo, 6 yrs, 7st 101 b bolted. The following also started, but were notlplaced:—Mr• 3 • Steven's gr h Gimcrack, 4 yrs, 6st 121 b ; and Mr. Hebden's ch f Appleton Lass, 3 yrs, Est 121 b. Won by a length. The Ware Plate of 501. The winner to be sold for 2001., &c' Heats, two miles and a distance. — Mr. Messer'sb gDo ctorWynn, 5 yrs, Bst. 91b. (F. Buckle) 1 Mr. C. Boyce's ch m. Maid of Honour, 5 yrs, Bst. 91b. 0 3 Mr. Balehin's b g Munchausen, 4 yrs, Bst. 31b ...... ..• 2 1 Mr. Kirby's b c Barbican (l a t e R evea l er ) age d , Bet.ll lb. _ if Three or four others started. A goo d race. W on by Fh" a length. The Manor Stakes of 3 sovs each, and 25 added. Heats, once round and a distance. The winner to be sold for 801. &C. Mr. Smith's ch. c. The Pedlar, 4 yrs, Bst. 61b. 0 1 2 Mr. Beacher's b. f. by Hussar, dam by Childe Harold, 3 yrs, 6st. 101 b 0 0 1 2 3 Mr. W. G. Smyth's br g The Unknown, aged, 0 2 3 Mr. White's b m Bucella, 4 yrs, 7 st. 121 b 2 0 4 Mr. Bishop's chm Shooting Lass, 5 yrs, Bst. 61b 3 0 dt Mr. Theobald's ch c Caligula, 4 yrs, Bst. 31b 1 die„ Several others started. Th e fi rs t h eat was won by t lengths, the s eco n d b y a nec k, t h e t hi rd b y a lengt h, an d t h e last won cleverly. 4 The Farmers' a n d T ra d esmen ' s Plate; heats, twice rou nd and a distance, with three leaps over hurdles in each heat ; won in two heats by Mr. Cater's b. g. Chelsing, aged, 12 (Mr. Powell), beatin g M r. Th omas ' s ch. g. Peacoc k, ag e d ' 12st., and three others, after a good raee. BRIDGNORTH RACES.—WanivrsDAY. The Maiden Stakes of 5 sovs each, with 20 added by Whitmore, Esq., ALP., for horses, &c. that never Won 501. Two mile heats. 1 I Air. Moss's b m Frailty, 4 yrs, Bst (Marlow) Mr. Robert's ch fby Irish Blacklock, 3 yrs, 6st 91b ..• 2 Won easy. The Patshull Stakes of 13 sovs each, for 3 yrs old. Two miles• 6 subs. Mr. T. Walter's b c Chantilly, by Langar, out of Trinket, Bst 51b. Walked over. DOGGETT'S COAT AND BADGE. The annual contest for the livery and badge bequeath The Dogget, the comedian, on which the musical farce of ed bY Waterman" is founded, took place yesterday. This is one or the oldest boat races on the Thames, 120 years having g one by since its first institution; but modern inno va ti on h as not eve n spared this, the labour having been reduced by starting the men at as easy a point of the tide as possible, and wager wherries, of the class used now by gentlemen, having been substituted within the last two years for working boats. The distance in this wager is from the Swan at London-bridge to the Swan a t Chelsea, against tide, and those qualified to row must have only just finished their term of apprenticeship. The number who be' come free every year, as wateimen, makes incumbent on tb . e .. Watermen's Company to allow a ll t o d raw , th e s i x fi rs t, ac cord e ing to the provisions of the wager, only b e i ng a ll owe d t o r ow. prize in itself is not valuable, and to the livery has been added , 7 . by Sir Wm. Jolliffe, the interest of some mone y on stock, ana° wa ing to 51. or 61., for the second a n d thi r d men. The extr a n r, dinary and unexpected fineness of the weather yesterday lna duced many parties to take water, and the usual interes_ e t° e ' o t coat and badge wager drew a good ' attendance at the clin_ hov , places in the men's route. Just as high water began , to at six last evening the following took their places : — ; Goodram, of Westmin s t er -b r id ge ; Ch a tl e r,_ of Bank t- Winford, of Fulh am ; J ones , of Wapping ; Elli s s, of minster-bridge ; and Jupp, of Old barge-house. .1, it. Jones had the best station, but did little or nothing p' l 'the All the men took the start as evenly as possible ; and af t g i a nd first effort had subsided Chantler and Goodram were sew e at scull with each other. They crossed the water togetburota Bankside, continued with the most surprising evennes s tr ifle they neared Westminster-bridge, where Goodram b ad a Good" the advantage. In sh oo ti ng th e water at the Penitentiary. e a it room went to work, an d got a good lead • he main tarn atl. although pressed h ar d, an d came in first three lengths a-he the Chantler was s econ d, an d a b etter second we never saw , winner was much distressed. THE MARKETS-(YESTERDAY•) COUNTRY CORN MARKETS DURING THE Wji"‘. _ Wheat. Barley. Oats. Per Quarter. s. to s. Is. s. s. to s. s. to s. a. Blandford -... 64 :2 34 36 25 28 42 43 .."*" fi'G 74 24 26 24 30 42 44 Cambridge—. - 75 - 34 - 25 - 40 3S 42 Chard --........ 60 72 38 40 IS 26 OS 4 0 •••` Huntingdon- 56 70 34 38 24 29 38 42 Long Sutton-, 58 78 - 16 20 30 34 Louth -....--- 158 78 26 32 20 24 35 42 3 , 56 77 22 31 16 20 30 3 2 32 ,9/ Newark 62 82 24 31 19 98 31 43 •"" Nottingham -I 64 79 28 31 19 28 35 42 •- -- Peterborough 59 82 35 42 22 29 33 4 3 Plymouth 58 80 30 34 20 23 - Pontefract......H - - 43 - 27 - 4:3 •••-• Sleaford 65 80 36 38 22 SS 41 . 43 ••••• Uppingham 63 84 24 30 18 28 32 44 ••"" Wisbech-,....1 63 82 , 20 30 3E LEEDS CORN MARKET.-Jujy 30. g 665. t 0 768 ' Wheat, Norfolk and Suffblk, 601 b. York. and Lincoln. 601 b. sas. Le vs. 29. Barley, Norfolk and Suffolk - Yorkshire and Lincolnshire Grinding 33a. to 4- 403 to 34 s l .. 445. Beans 63lb. - LEEDS Wheat, Norfolk and Sin - York. and Lincoi Barley, Norfolk and Suill - Yorkshire and Lii - Grinding Beans Oats, Potatoe -Mealing, For. --d. ti Shelling RKET.—Jujy 30. 68s. t o 761:1 5t58. to 72 ,6 4 40s. to 423. 1 365. to 404. pt 33c. to 345. a 41).L. to 41s. i:i 28n. to 306, e‘ ~...Eng. 14d. to 15%d. per stoei 365. to 375. per I'. :0-d HAMBURG MARKETS. GRAIN. Wheat, Marks 414 to 450 Oats, Up1and............... to ."; M ec kl e nburg 390 to 450 -- Mecklenburg 174 to ISI Magdeburg.... 4 02 to 438 -- Eider l7l to , v" -- Eid er 402 to 428 Holstein 156 to P" ...• Anhalt, white 408 to 468 Petersb. kßiga , to „,,, --- red ... 411 to 456 Malt, Pomeranian ..... 192 to X l B l O B to Holstein , b 0 Rye, Mecklenburg Holstein 264 to SOO Beans 224 to 1 :7 5 Archangel . ....... to Tares 240 to :4; 6 Barley, Mecklenburgh 222 to 240 Rapeseed .3 00 to . . c .O Magdeburgh . 222 to 234 Ditto Cakes Lower Elbe ... to Linseed ditto 52 to .- COTTON. „t 9 Carolina and Tennessee 7 to 9% Maranham 97 6-° 1 Georgia, 21d5t..5.0..r.t................... 8 1/,i 1 69 0 t 4 sLaAulardaortnuay.c.r..oa...u...n...t..). 66 13 1 C B O M FF H E Dmingo ... .... ........... 74 3d and 4th .... 732 54 Mocha ........................ 10Y4t011% Domingo anfiah 44 t° 64 Batavia ...................... 5 5 4 5 Sumatra ..................... 4% 4% Porto Rice 6 % 14 Pernambuco, Rio .................... s .. u ... 0 ... A 4 55 : ( vv s ss ; t Bahia Havannab, White ....... 64 4 to 9% :Bah i 0 14 Brown Rio, White 6 BrownW bu l i c i o te , .. i v ..... i ~.. i . .............. ......I 1 4 t 6 01 Brown __.--- we - ES NEW MUSIC.—A Q uant i tyof MUSICAL `-'^ 13 le, I playing upwards of 400 Airs, Overtures, &c being fo r List of the Music is n ow pu bli shed ; also the prices . of the ° lfs! Boxes. The List can be sent by post, as a single letter. Ivor . be had gratis, f rom T . COX SAVORY, G o ldsmith, S, from Gracech urc h - street). smith, Watch ma k er, & c., 47, Coinhill, London (Seven JJ SHEFFIELD PLATED WINE COOL S ithSr A. B. SAVORY and SONS, Manufacturing Silvel: s _° o f o r 14, Cornhill, London (opposite the Bank of England), ha choice i n th e i r warerooms a Selection of PLAIN and MENTAL ICE PAILS, to which they wish to direct attf,. The price o f th e Pl a i n T u b-p a il (now much in use) , • t h. the pair ; the Classic Vase (very neat), 101. Ss. the 1 4 , 1 9 ;. th 6: Victoria Pattern, 151. the pair ; the Dresden Cooler; ! el . , 0 1 pair, &c., all of whic.. are strongly mounted with Si: Ar ot have Silver Shields for Engraving the Crest or Coat o ‘. l o 1e sod A pamphlet is published, with drawings of the au.„,licor other articles of plate generally , which may be h ad en "I' tion, free of cost. - - BIRTHS. On the 30th ult., Mrs. J. G. Lewis, Ely-place, of a dajl os ce. On the 3 0 th ult. , Mrs. Hurlstone , Chester - s treet, u nor-place, of a son. MARRIED. o jorit . On the 2 4 th ult. , at Berlin , Mories Marasse, Esq ., ° th at city to Henrietta, daughter of the late J. Herfort, DED. On the 23 d ult., at Witham l , in Essex, Mrs. L. P. obalt, relict of V. Kemball, Esq., aged 85. t h e On the 26th ult., at Slaugharn Rectory, Susse x, Robert Ellison, 39 years Rector of that parish,• a g ed 7 0 . • London: Printed and Published by Al URDO Y ( ' d, t p No. 112, Strand, at The Sun Office, No. 112, Slrg the county of Middlesex.—Friday, August 2, 1839. Abb.