The Sun. — London, England, 1821-06-27 00:00:00

examine ir tny u f r our o o w r ea fly s e would take upon them to farmer had less money to spend, he must reduce establishment, iehthergwhe and put the result of that his expellees in every direction, and some of examination on paper, would receive full credit from the public. the reduction must fall ' upon the labourer. Thus all useful information wo t u o ll t 3 f t d s. w ti it , i rt uft geeli the ha r i having,; h , it t hey he d t took e - It was under these appalling circumstances, principle understoodoilr. Owen as a sort of panacea for the dis tress- which at the present moment! was so generally felt and so man, (M r. Scar le tt) had introduced a Bill much to be deplored..:, to stultify that gen e ro us sy s t em o f l eg i s l a ti on Dr. LUSHES GTON considerea the system of Mr. Owen as one of the most visionary and impracticable he had ever heard On which this country had sa long acted, to de- or read of. But the secret of Mr. Owen's success was owing to prive thousands of the means of subsistence, and the direct influence which he had over those persons-whose-ne cessities obliged them to bend to his s ySt em . N o man co u ld to.make them vag ran t s , if t h erte h a d b een a clause believe th a t a certain portion of land being given to an indivi to deprive them even of that resource. Mr. dual would give him at the sam . e i t t ime the d p t owg and ec tchaetiianad(!f citinento s s a u r ps y or t i t couldhimself. Owen proposed a more humane plan for the im be donet regard to Mr. Owen; and proiernent of the Poor Laws. His plan was ex.! - again, as to the payment of interest on the capital expended; posed to.much prejudice, of which all. inventors surely they werepot now so many years smdying political 'eco had to stand the brunt, till it was dissipated. ,by nomy as to render it necessary to apply to Mr. Owen for infor mation on the subject. For hirriself he was not at all alarmed ' time. It was no small testimony in favour of at Mr. Owen's plan ;. but he confessed he should be so, if the Mr:. Owen.; that a Petition was presented in Muounsdee.f Commonsd on soan ac r t i e n d th ur s n I t . Owen's w l a f a .T. maeita way ; plan were its fayour of his plan from the County of Lanark, utility would be enough P to recommend it ; and the public press which was the scene of his experiments. The would not fail to advocate it. The Hon. Member for \Vey lisPlite he mouth thought awn.the less s sys to be extended to workhouses do _ better. orkhouses ;but liii, M e mb er th en eu l og i se d th e es t a bli s h ment they had to with workhouses the at,New Lanark, and referred, as,a proof of what Mr: CAN NING sa id, t hat en t erta i n i ng a s i ncere nilibt be done by combination in th e improved respect for th e t a l en t s an d generous v i ews o f M r. ati l ministration of the ...Poor Laws, to the,House Owen, he felt unw illi ng t o say ally thing that of „ might _disparag e th e o bj ec t th a t h e h a d i n view.lndustry at Newport in the Isle o f Wi g ht,_. Tile benefit which he exp e cted t o de r i ve f rom a Mr. Owen had pressed the matter upon him, and Pirliamentary• Commission, was from the most lie (Mr. Canning) declared that he would vote, coo Ipiete investigation o f th e pl an , an d th e puh- after heari ng th e argumen t s on b ot h s id es, ac lie., discussionwhich would thus he excited, and cording to his c onv i c ti on . H e now f e l t i t neces- NvOnid tend_to remove the prejudices which exist- would vote against th e pro any other mod e o f d raw i ng a tt en ti on (d mo re s p ee dil y th an cou ld b e expecte d , from sary to say, th a t h e wo position of the Hon. M e Mb er . A gree i ng to t h e .to it.. He coiaCluded by s e c on di ng th e mo ti on , arguments of his. Noble F riefid, he thought that the - plan of Mr. Owen would lead to the corn ' The Marquis of LoNnoNnenny said,. - a pro plete destruction of individuality, anti create an position similar to the present had, formerly b een -• amalgamation o pp ose d to the principles of hu man rejected by the House,- and. .he still bad great nature, , g and , above all, to thegenius of this dopbt.of the propriety ,of d e cidi ng thaCParlia- we country. It st ru ck hi m , th a t th ere was a w id e merit should charge itself with.the responsibility 0 difference b e t ween an i nst i tut i on w hi c h was un -o:it-Tiding on the prospect h e ld out to the tom- der the immediate inspection of an i n di v id ua l b y munity by Mr. Owen's Plan. Th e mo d e in whom'it was 'fostered, and who was n a t ura lly which hi s li on . F r i en d (M r . D awson ) h a d re anxious for its-success, anti the extension . of th e ferved to the R e p or t s w hi c h h a d b een ma d e to principle on which- it was• conducted to soci e ty Par,liament this S e ssio n i ncrease d th e i r doubts, at large. Indi v id ua l s congrega t e toget h er on For, if the R e p or t o f th e Agricultural Commit- tee s . on which C omm itt ee h e (L or d L.) had some known and intelligent principle. Mast ers and servants, l a ndl or d s •- an d tenants, workmen spent many a wear y morn i ng -0 l aug h) - - was soand manufactu rers , were b oun d toget h er b y t h e coun unsatisfactory, what would th e fe e li ngs o f th e closest r e l a ti ons , by p r i va t e i nterests an d pu b l i c ed ftry be, if, a ft er b e i ng t o ld th a t a Plan exist- obligations. B u t h ow were two thousand or bringing back the golden days of Para- dire, and that P ar li amen t h a d g i ven i persons, unknown to each o th er , unconnec t e d into the by any of th o s e f irm an d na t ura l t i es, to trick, all th e b r i g ht co l ours me lt e d i n t o a ir? In congregate t oge th er , was no t exp l a i ne d to him . this free and happy c oun t r y, an y pl an o f t hi s • by any thing he had e ve r read on this subject, kind would be sufficiently inv e sti ga t e d w i t h out :t or by any thi ng b e h a d h ear d th a t n i g h t. — behe intervention of Parliament. The Hon. Mem- What was th e i n d ucemen t t o th ose persons ? t had told us th a t th e s p a d e was preferable to Were they to start as vo l un t eers ? If th ey did , the plough, and that were all dit we should never be happy he was convinc e d th a t a sc h eme commencing in till we gging—(a laugh) ;—th a t a delusion would end in disappointment. lie (Mr. cotton manufactory could never be carried on well Canning) confessed that he did not see any thing till there was a Mr. Owen to take care of the in the principle o f Mr. Owen which ought t o in morals of the peopl e w h en th e y came out o f the duce that Ho u s e •t o di s t ur b th e esta bli s h e d re l a- Lions of society i n thi s coun tr y . li e h ope d t h at mill, so that soci e ty wou ld l ose it s di sperse d an d independent c h arac t er , an d wou ld b e re d uce d to it was not n ecessar y f or hi m to d e f en d hi mself B.` system of machinery which th e H on . M em b er would drive e in. that ]louse f rom an y c h arge o f religious -bi ut of the world except as appli e d to gotry.—(Ch eers .)—H e cou ld not h e l p say i ng, human beings. He protested against th e House that as far as he k new , th e commun it y f orme d of Commons b e i ng th e p ro p er b o d y t o ta k e upon by Mr. Owe n was th e f irs t commun i ty i n t hi s itself the investi ga ti on o f a b s t rac t pr i nc i p l es, or country which prof e ss e d no p ar ti cu l ar pr i nc i p l es of ill ne w i nven ti ons , ,the success of which so of religion. R e li g i on , as f ar as regar d e d an in ofte'n depended on th e zeal of the inventors. lie dividual, w as a cons id era ti on b etween hi m an d hoped th e y wou ld no t un d erta k e an inquiry his God. But in a country where there was a which would add one •to the fruitless results national religion upheld and protected by the which were supposed to lower their character in State, he would not impose penalties on those public estimation. There were_ large and intel- who might differ from that religion—(Hear, ligent bodies which had a direct -and lively in- hear !)—but he thought that the peculiarities terest in any plan for the improvement o f th e a d- avowed by Mr. Owen, were not those which ministrati on o f th e poor, anti it was notnecessary should' be stamped by Parliamentary approba to a, trial of Mr. Owen's Plan (if it held out any tion. He thought that in sound discretion, Mr. prospects) that the country should be carved out Owen ought to have kept those peculiarities to into.parallelograms.in order to put the poor under himself. He (Mr. Canning) did not break into the management of the Exchequer. The state of the privacy of that Gentleman to learn his opi discipline recommended by Mr. Owen might be nions, or his peculiarities on matters of religion. applicable enough to poor houses, but it was by Mr. Owen openly -declared them to the world. no means applicable to the feelings of a free na7 It was not, therefore, for Parliament to interfere tion., He did not stand there'to oppose any be- with them. As this was 'one reason why he nevolent scheme, but he felt it necessary to pro- would vote against the present motion, he thought test . against Parliament being made the tribunal it necessary to state it. Nothing that he had for investigating every abst.ruSe principle , and said would discourage private individuals from every new scheme for modelling the established trying the experiment: After repeated and suc- Qrder of society. lie could not consent to the cessful experi m ents, the plan would come with granting. of a C omm i ss i on , w hi c h h e was appre- greater chance of success before Parliament. hensiYe would ultimately lead - .to embarrass- But it was too much to ask for an implied pledge meat in that House, without producing any useful of the support and approbation of Parliament to result. • . • Sir. N a principl e , a ft er a l ong course o f t r i a l an d mu l - V. DE CRESPIGNY thou g ht th a t th e pl a n d ese r ve d at least a fair he a rin g . He thought also that the House of Com- t" 1 . ti instances of success. The motion he lp te mons watiprecisely the for considering of any plan that fore the House was a motion for information, mightkad to the improvement and benefit of the people.. The but there was also a roosition to address the system of education adopted by Mr. - Owen fdrced childr en t o p ,-, p become good memb ers o f society. How much superior was Crown to appoint a Commission to inquire into that mode to, the conduct of many schools in the metropolis, the state of Mr. Owen's Institution at New which were sinks of iniquity—which led children into the ways of vice and corruption, arid which ought to be suppr esse d by the Lanark, and that the Commission er s s h ou ld re - police of the country ?. - . • port the result of their labours to that House. It Mr. HUME said, that ha-subscribed - 10 every principle laid was impossible for the House to agree to that down in the speech of the Noble Marquess. The nature of proposition, for if the Commission were issued, the plan of society recommended would take away from the the Commissioners, instead of r e po r ti ng t o th e British character th a t w hi c h was it s b okst an d i ts protect i on, its native ind ependenee—( H ear !) —lt was said. that Mr.. Owen's By that House, should report to th e C rown . establishment was conducted with the utmost regularity ; he- course of proceeding it would throw a burthen on admitted - the fact, but one o r hi s o bj ect i ons to i t was, that it wits much too regul a r—(a laugh)'.—Theie was too much re u - the Executive Government. It would become larity to-leave room for energy, and ,independence;-if man be -the duty of Government to recommend to Portia - not called upon by the pressure of circumstances to think for meat some measures founded on the Report. Then himself, he will never think at all. However admirable the so ciety of Mr. Owen might be under his own immediate eye, its , as to the other point, it was said that the House principles could never be extended_ to a free and.enterprising want e d information,and it was well observed that people. 'lle could not, however, it down without expressing they had the elements of a Commission before them. the respect and admiratiOn lie felt for the virtues and extensive benevolence of Mr. Owen. If the Honourable Mover and Seconder, and the Mr. F. BUXTON -said,- that there was hardly-one opinion convinced Worthy Baronet opposite, we re of the uttered by the Noble Marquess in which he-did not concur— 'great -benefits that were likely to result to the (hear !)--and-there was hardly an expression made use of by his Honourable - Friend (Mr. Maxwell) from which he'did not dis-from the general adoption of Mr. country Owen's sent—(a laugh.)—Still there was ono reason - for supporting - the Plan, what prevented them from employing their present motion. Circumstances led.him to the knowledge of the ti me , t h e i r talents, and th e i r mone y, i n ma ki ng state df the workhouses, wnich ' were i ns ti tut i ons for the direct production of misery and vice.; it was impossible for any One the i n quiry which they'so anxiously pressed u p on to visit them witho u t b e i ng stnjck with the miserabl e , squa lid, th e H ouse ? 'They might do so without creating and degraded appearance of the children; but with respect to any expense to the country ; and after making a Mr. wen's establishment, there were not to be fOunchn any . place so large a collection -of children possessed , of so much journey down to Lanark ; th e y wou ld h ave t h e health, vivacity, spirit a nd docility.—(Hear !)—He ,would agree pleasing task of bringing forward a distinct pro to the motion, because the examination might lead to one im- position on the subject.—(A laugh.)—He object portazsi inquiry, namely,- that of considering the best means of d to managing large institutions. He hoped that the state of the e the mode proposed—it was inconvenient in workhquses, containing a population a many hundred thousand itself, and inconvenient in its example. He would persons, would be taken up by some Gentleman, and shortly v against the motion w ith th e l ess re l uc t ance , oe brought under the con s id era t ion o f t h at H ous e : ote Mr. SCAITLETT thought that the mode proposed was not because the rejection of that motion would not. the most expedient mode of inquiry. If any Gentleman thought mar the good which was contemplated as likely the principle good, perhaps the best way of proCeeding would to flow from th e p r i nc ipl es o f M r . O wen . Ti me be to bring in a distinct Bill o n the su bj ect. Referring. to an observation made by an Hon. Gentleman that evening, he (Mr. would make those principles better understood, searlets) woullonly say that he never would have brought in and they might. ) , at a future period, be brought the Bill now before Parliament if he did not think that it would under the consideration of the Leislature, in a tend tel .: ameliorate the condition of the poor. H e thought that - g Hon. Gentleman .would. only act f a irl y to h ear arguments in more i mpr oved and matured state. • • - fawn; pf public measures instead of anticipating and aspersing. Mr. \V. SMITH said, that if the present question was f or them.' the' adoption of Mr. Owen's pl a n, h e w o uld s a y no . B u t a t t h e Mt.:H.-GURNEY t'nought that the Plan of - Mr. Ovien was - dame time he felt it necasary to vote for an inquiry into the na higlily.#leseevinsof inquiry„ • ture of that system which was found to produce so much local r. yVILBERFORCE regretted that the motion had been advantage in the only part of the country in which it was tried. brought forward at all. He had the highest opinion of the He should, therefore, support the motion. eeultAnd disinterested benevolence of Mr_ Owen's views; but Sir I. COFFIN declared h i m se lf an enem y t o th e pl ans ' o f r • - • thought.", Commission quite unnecessary for 'the proposed Mr. Owen. Lord A. HA MwroN contended, that the plan adopted by Mr. Owen included the most Strict observance of religion, and there were many Members of that House, who, if -present, could testify the fact. He was anxious to- support the motion for inquiry, without at 411 pledging himself to the details of the plan. Mr. MAXWELL, in reply, - observed, thatit was not his in tention to divide the House upon the question. Mr. BROUGHAM said, that if the HenourAtije Member 'had pressed the question to a division, he would ha* toted for the Inquiry. He wished to correct a mistake into 'which soi Honograbie Gentlemen had fallen.with respect to Mr. Owens. Plan. Ile did not know what Mr. Owen's religious opinions were, but he could assure the House, that if any fault was to be found with the sysystempursued at Lanark,- it was on th e score of too much religion. He (Mr. Brougham) was aware that there could not be too great an observance of sound religious principles; but there were persons who presumed to complain that there v'as too much of the vehemence of religion practised at Mr. Owen's Establishment. He feltit necessary to say this much, as a feeling had crept into the public mind, in conse quence of. some ill-advised opinions broached in London by Mr. Owen, that the E s t a bli s h ment was not conducted on reli gious principles. So far from this being the case, he was con vinced, from what he had heard, that the system of education was highly religious. The question was then put, and negatived Without a division. THE SLAVE TRADE. Mr. WiLnEavoacE, in rising to bring forward his motion on the subject of the Papers laid be fore the House concerning the Abolition of the. Slave Trade, observed, that the situation in which he now stood was very different from that in which he was placed when he addressed the House upon this subject on a former occasion. A considerable period had elapsed before the different interests of this country - could be brought to favour the Abolition of the Slave Trade. :ThaOteat object wasat length accom plished, and the whole voice of Great Britain was unanimously raised against it. Shortly after that determination came the Bill of his Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham,) which, by en acting a severe punishment of all those found en gaged in this detestable trade, put the sincerity of the country beyond all doubt. It was pro posed, that the measures adopted by this country for the Abolition of the .Slave Trade, during the war, were to be followed up, on the arrival of peace, by the endeavours of our Government to prevail upon foreign Powers to carry into effect the principles which we .had adopted. During the war we were the only carriers in Europe. The vessels of the other European nations navigated the ocean solely upon our permission. After the abolition of that detestable trade which had fasted for more than two centuries, we found that the African was not that degraded being which he was supposed to . be ; we found that he Was a. being possessing the same reasoning powers with ourselves; a being who, when his liberty and property were secured, was anxious to at tach himself to habits of industry, and to form himself into a useful member of a peaceful commu nity. Such was the state of the case when that struggle, in which the whole of the European Powers were engaged, terminated in a peace.— On the ratification of that peace the Noble Mar quess opposite had used his utmost endeavours to induce the other great Powers to co-operate with us in the abolition of the Slave Trade. It was gratifying to find that the great Powers in ques tion had all expressed the same sentiments of dis approbation of this detestable traffic, had also all expressed a wish that this scourge of the human race should be terminated. Spain and Portugal had hesitated most, but they at length joined in the same. feeling, and the utmost which they pleaded for was,, that a certain period should be allowed to the persons then engaged in the traffic. This country had, with a liberality highly to its honour, granted to Spain and Portugal a consi derable sum as . o,remuneration for the losses sus tained by those countries from the prosecution of our plan of abolishing the Slave Trade. It was natural that we should now inquire into the re sult of the Treaties into which we had entered with those countries. And here he felt it neces sary to mention what bad been done by the No ble Marquess (Londonderry), to whose labours and persevering ability the country was so much indebted on this occasion. The Noble Marquess had in all his negotiations supported this cause with the greatest zeal and earnestness.—(Hear, hear !)—Notwithstanding-,all the steps which had been taken, however, he was sorry to say that the Slave Trade was still carried on to an im mense extent, and in many instances with a degree of barbarity sufficient to exhaust human suffering on the one hand, and human cruelty on the other—(hear, hear !) ;—and more than suffi cient to justify.all that had been said of it on for mer occasions. The Hon. Member, after allud ing to the conduct of the Government of the Ne therlands on this question, expressed a hope' that that country, with which our , interests were in a great measure bound up, would be induced to join us in our endeavours to protect so large a portion of our fellow-creatures. He trusted that Spain also would be induced to join us in this great work. He was the more inclined to enter tain this hope from a knowledge that there existed in that country a number of great and high-mind ed individuals who would be inclined to co-ope rate with us the moment that they felt the effects of living under a free Constitution., From Por tugal also, he wished to entertain the same hope ; but he was unfortunately forbidden to indulge that hope, by the conduct of Portugal heretofore, that conduct having evinced the most decided, dis position to pursue the. traffic in Slaves merely for the acqUisition of gain. Whether . the new Institu tions in that country would produce any change in the ,character of its Government, or in its com mercial system, upon this subject particularly, he could - not pretend to say ; but it would be strange indeed, if a country professing to . sanc tion the principles of freedom and justice, should tolerate the Slave 'Trade—especially after Go .vernments upon the principle of arbitrary mo narchy had decidedly declared against it. His wish was, that the several Powers who had de- . nounced this odious traffic, should appoint Asses sors to superintend and ensure the execution of their views, and Portugal should be peculiarly called upon to attend to this arrangement.--- (Hear!)-1 t was gratifying to learn that America, which : had,derived great benefit from this traffic, had acted very differently from Portugal.— (Hear, hear!)—As the Americans arose from the same source as ourselves, this indication of their character was a just cause of pride to 'Englishmen. —(Hear, hear, hear!)—But it was extraordinary that a nation so high spirited and. chivalrous as France, had manifested quite a different feeling. it was impossible, indeed, for any man Acquaint. ed with the character of the French, not to feel extremely disappointed at the disposition of that people to persevere in this odious traffic, after it was dbandoned by England f and its nefarious practices were universally proclaimed ; for these lxritctices were such as•to throw into the shade the Attmos4 cruelties while") sullied the French*- . volution ; f or w hil e thellatt`hr ini/lit naturally be supposed to proceed from passions strongly excited, the former could have no other impulse than a cold deliberate desire for gain.—(llear, hear !)-1 - lere the Hon. Mem ber took a review of the case of the French ships engaged in the Slave Trade, which were men tioned last night in the House of Lords, by Lord Lansdown, and in which slaves were found stowed in casks, while others were thrown over board in casks, to avoid a search ; remarking, in the most pathetic strain, upon the slaves, and the crew afflicted with ophthahnia. It was pe culiarly revolting, he observed, that when this ophthalmic affliction was made known to the French Government, the disease itself became the subject of mere medical analysis, instead of provoking any inquiry as to the horrid cause of its existence.—(llear, hear !)--The most effec tual guard against the continuance of the Slave Trade would, he thought, be, to allow the mu tual right of search by officers of each nation ; and to such an arrangement the French Govern ment would, he hoped, be easily reconciled, for the establishment of such a right could in no degree 'compromise its pride or consequence, especially where an officer on the part of each nation should be appointed to direct that search. The American Legislature had, much to its honour, pronounced any ship of that nation engaged in the Slave Trade guilty of piracy.— It were to be wished that all Governments should issue a similar Decree, for the most vi gorobs measures were necessary to counteract the Wide-spread evil of this traffic. There were, no doubt, some Papers on the table which al leged the diminution of this trade, but those Papers were contradictory in themselves, and therefore by no means to be regarded as autho rity. This was the more evident upon looking to the representation of Sir G. Collyer, who stated, that he saw 40 sail at the Havannah des tined for the Coast of Africa, at the very time to which some of those Papers referred, and that, at the same period, there were 28 sail in a cer tain river in Africa (the name of which we could not collect) waiting to take in cargoes of slaves. The facility of obtaining such 'cargoes, it was la mentable to say, was considerably increased by the measures of this country for the Abolition of the Slave Trade ; for through those measures the unfortunate natives of Africa were encouraged to collect in villages upon the banks of rivers and on the coast, from which they shrunk, while the ravages of the Stave Trade were notoriously un interrupted and openly pursued by British ship ping.—(llear!)--He could not help congratulating himself on the part - which he had taken in rescu ins , this country from that abominable traffic. But although England, which had formerly prosecuted this trade with the greatest vigour, and which had derived from it the greatest profit, had res cued itself from the disgrac.eful pursuit, the work of humanity and justice must still be incomplete while other nations were engaged in it. To in duce those nations, then, to abandon that traffic, was a most desirable object. He imputed no lukewarmness or want of ability to his Noble Friend opposite. He was fully aware that his Noble Friend had great difficulties to encounter i❑ the prejudices of Foreign Powers. The po licy pursued by those Powers was founded upon a mistaken sense of gain; mistaken he called it, for the Great Disposer of Events had "ordained that national gain could never be promoted by a violation of justice, and that the course prescribed by the principles of justice and humanity was also the course which was most consistent with commercial -prosperity. The Hon. Member con cluded amidst much cheering, by moving an Ad dress to his Majesty, recapitulating the principal topics in his speech. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that in common with the whole House, he had listened with the greatest attention to the admirable .speech of his Hon. Friend. He had heard him with particular satisfaction that night, because while he attempted to rouse the feelings of Fo reign Powers, he at the same time reminded the House that this country for a long time indulged in the exercise of those crimes long before our own moral feelings were roused upon the subject. With respect, to the Address, it certainly con tained some hasty reflections upon foreign Go vernments, to which he should not agree, if that Address were written as a political paper, rather than an expression of the moral feelings of au individual. lie certainly hoped that it would not be misinterpreted abroad, and other Go- vernrnents ought to feel it as a proof of how this country felt, and not as a reproach upon themselves, but as a stimulus to the moral feelings of their people. He was ready to go along with his Hon. Friend in much that had fallen frorn him, but at the same time they ought not to kieep out of sight the difficulties which obstructed the full attainment of the abolition. lie hoped that by every exertion they should be able to remove the traffic in slaves in a still greater degree, yet he could not look to the final accomplishment of their object until it was held by all countries that slave dealing was a crime. If it was held to be a crime against all Governments, that was the position which would call into action the physical as well as moral energies of the whole world. A 11 countries must be common cruizers against one common enemy. And many countries, as far as •he was acquainted by their Governments, want ed rather the means' than the will to carry this into effect. They had not a sufficient naval power to spread over the various stations, and wherever one flag was absent, the slave dealer would take' shelter under it. He did not find the free Governments the most practicable to deal with upon this subject. He fully agreed in the sincerity with which his Honourable Friend seemed to .think that America acted in endea- vouring to secure the abolition. But he thought the question with regard to America hardly .stood upon - fair -- ground. She had, it is trite, given the name of piracy to any act of slave dealing : hut then it was a sort of Irish piracy, because no other flag could deal with them as pirates except her awn. With respect to the mutual search, there yas no Government so hostile to that arrangeux: as ,tie American. With re&ar to Stain, tl eat difkculty be arways bad` that of.. 1 4 iati12 ,, - P . into the minds of that Government that we were not acting upon some commercial principles in effecting the abolition of the Slave Trade. They thought that his Hon. Friend who took so distill- , guished . a part in that great work, was a very good Englishman, who always had his eyes upon - the West Indies.—(Hear ! and a laugh.)—lle mentioned this, to slew his lion. Friend that it was not a necessary consequence for a represent ative government to be an enlightened one. In all the representative governments of Spain,Franee, and America, the principle of the abolition was recognised, hat they all objected to the search • upon the ground of national jealousy. The Noble Marquis then complained of the conduct of Portugal, and said , that the convulsions which had taken place in that country, as well as in Spain, might be instrumental in preventing the proper attention to those- national affairs which must so greatly suffer by neglect. As the Cortes would now be established in Lisbon, as well as in Rio Janiero, negociations with those Governments might hereafter go on with better success. •He repeated, that looking at the Ad-. dress of his 'lon. Friend as a political document, he should certainly have required modificationsi of some paragraphs. But as a moral appeal to the . people of other countries, he should not object to let it pass as it was proposed. Sir J. MACKINTOSH rose chiefly because a mo tion like - the present afforded an opportunity for the manifestation of opinions which it was desir able should go forth to the world. It was only by reiterated appeals to the feelings of nations that opinion could have its due weight upon so-, ciety. The Hon. and Learned Member then went into a history of the conduct of Portugal, with regard to the abolition of the Slave Trade,, and contended that it was shameless and atro cious in the extreme. The .Hon. and Learned Gentleman did not consider the Slave Trade productive of any distress under which the coun try might suffer ; but they had a right to call ors France to abolish a traffic which had appeared to that nation in the most odious point of view. After France had entered into a treaty to abolish it, was it not most extraordinary; that no penal law was passed to punish what he considered the greatest of crimes ? At the same time he did not exclusively attach reproach to the French Legislative Assembly. The sup port of the Slave Trade was to be attributed to some of the supporters of the Government ; that was the real state of the case, and all who read _ the speeches of his venerable and valuable friend, M. de la Fayette, ' would find that the warmest partizans of the Government of France were the greatest friends and supporters of the Slave Trade. It was not the feeling of the French people which upheld the Slave Trade, but the unwillingness of the Government of France to stop it. Why did not the Government inquire in- l f to the case of Le Radeur ? There was anotheract --- of atrocity which had been traced to the French flag, and which would furnish a subject fit for the muse of Dante. A living poet could not do justice to the horrific subject. He alluded to the monstrous barbarity of putting the blind in casks and throwing th em over b oar d. The admirable dispatches of Sir G. Collyer pointed out the glaring fact of 600 blacks having been carried off annually in French ships. When he looked at all the charges, he wished the French Go vernment would exculpate themselves. Unfortn nately, he found same disposed to favour the abo minable traffic upon the most hypocritical and worst of excuses, attention to interest, and French commerce. He was convinced the French people, brave and enlightened as they are, would consent to abolish the trade, upon a just representation of the base and hypocritical policy upon which it is founded. The American Government, faithful to their ancient character, their blood, and berty, had for ever denied the right to carry 0 " that nefarious trade. It was worthy of rene that two nations having the same origin , had jo he same year abolished that crime, which •other 3 owers of Europe had continued with so much in'' moral indifference. The Tunisians and Algerines were accused of piracy for stealing men frow,, Italy. Were not the Portuguese equally Pi rates for stealing men from Congo ? In his sittla tion as a Judge in India, he formerly had-occa sion to consider the case of two .Portugues° vessels being found with slaves on board, between the Mozembique and Goa ; and of all th e dreadful misery, cruelty, and.wretchedness he had ever known, those cases presented the w orst' it was really astonishing that the Arab POwe rs ,,, should have abolished this crime, and France onn: to do it after a treaty, in which they pledged themselves to procure the abolition.. Consider: ing that all Europe had consented to . a boli s '' s the trade, and consid e ri ng th e wre t c h e d ert i 'which nations. had resorted to for the purpose d supporting these frauds, h e did no t d espa ir the result of the efforts made by this coot‘ tr o , and the United States in the cause of reas () ) ,' justice, and liberty. He believed this cou" tr i , would diffuse knowledg e th roug h ou t the w°l., u ta which would bury this crime in oblivioul leave no trace behind. j g on Lord MILTON was desirous of s a yi ng on l y a few lot,iiich this subject so ably introd uc ed. Th ere was one point ',irde had not been noticed, even by his Learned Friend. The : oi tfic ricans had done honour to them se l ves b y M a ki ng this cles piracy; but, with respect to France, he considered the which interfered ,between that Go vernmen t an d t h e Slave ' coa ld to arise solely from the effect of religion. Before iheY of the expect from France any co,-operation in the abolition Slave Trade, they must see Christianity restored. f Am erica, Dr. LUSHINOTON, adverting t o th e conduct °act. The said that she had not done enough by passing °, ll t e it,,unless . a making of slave-dealing piracy would not pre y o ast of Africa, sufficient number of cruisers were kept along to enforce the penalty. This was not the case . d t, Londonderry) few, which were not sufficient. The Noble r If° nat nothing but a should press on the American Government, t of her flag mutual right of search could prevent the prostitution Gentleman Learned to this nefarious traffic. The' Hon. and of slaves confirmed the statements regarding the cruel treatment'oned several on board the Portuguese slave ships, and menti He likewise the e she had only a cases.of which the evidence had come before him. spoke in severe terms of the conduct of France. Mr. BERNAL adverted to the sums which Portugal had re, ceived from this country, for stivulatint; to abolish a traffic 1