The Sun. — London, England, 1839-04-18 00:00:00

EVEN ING EDITION country was one of progressive improvement. These I I were subjects capable of demonstration.—(Hear, hear.) \ He would ask men differing from him in political qirions, if this were not the case with his pat of Ire land, concerning which only he could bear testimony as having come under his own observation? To commence with trade,—the several branches of trade had considerably improved within the last seven years, and were in a pro gressive state of improvement. In 1829 the declared value of of the corn exported from Ireland was 2,300,0001., and in the year 1833 it amounted to 3,400,0001., show ing an increase of 1,10'0,0001. since the year 1829. The imports in tea had increased a fourth since 1829, and the imports in coffee had increased threefold within the same period, showing beyond all doubt that there was an 1 . improvement in the condition of the people of Ireland ; there was likewise double the quantity of coals imported . into Ireland now that were imported in 1829. He should not have thought it necessary to have made these compari sons, and to have brought them before the House, if there bad not been sweeping declarations made in that House that Ireland was in a progressive state of crime and that neither life nor property were safe there. As to manufactures, in one branch at least, there had been an enormous increase—in fact it had become a new trade, and raised since 1829—he meant the manufacture of floor. In 1629 there wore but few mills in Ireland for the manufac ture of that article ; now, he believed, there was scarcely one river in that country capable of having a mill erected upon it, and capable of any outlet for commerce, which had not from one to twenty of such mills upon it, in some 20,0001., in ethers 30.0001., in others 10.0001., being embarked ; and this was daily on the increase. Its would ask, were men so blind to their own interest— were they so foolish and to ignorant as to erect those mills, and invest such large pr o perties in them, if they at I the same time could have the remotest idea that life and 1 property were insecure in Ireland ? These were facts that must give the character of falsehoods to the assertions which bad been made in another place. Even English capital- ists and Scotch capitalists were at this very moment ha vesting their money in Ireland in the erection and working of these mills, and in other branches of manufacture there A large addition had been made also to the cotton trade in Ireland, and many new mills had been ereted, espe cially in hie own part of the country, for increasing that trade of late, and employment was given in them to large number s of the working people, and he believed them to be very profitable undertakings. Likewise in his own part, and he believed in many other parts of Ireland, an entirely rcw trade had been created in the manufacture of beer and porter. That had become an export trade of great im portance. In 1829 he believed there were not more than 100 hogsheads of porter exported from Waterford, whereas now there were upwards of 3,000 hogsheads exported annually, and that expert was still increasing. —( Hear.) The glass trade and the working of mines had greatly increased since 1829, and they were still very much improving. Other minor branches of trade had sprung up by which capital was circulated, and the poor employed. These P ere facts afirding• a triumphant an. awer to the statement that there was no s.'curiiy in Ire land. He asserted boldly, that life and property were now snore secure in Ireland, then they ever had been within the memory of man...--( Cheers ) And the best proof of that was, that the condition of the people was daily improving, that capital was being circulated more and more in every direction, that trade was flourishing, and that the laud brought row better pricesond hither rents than it haddone fir the last 40) eats. ( lis ar, from Sir Robert Bateson ) The Rm. Baronet opposite called hear, hear, but he should be able to prove the statement he had made. The Earl of Enniskillen had an estate near to the city of \\Ta. tcrford, and he sold a large tract of land there in small lot.. It certainly was known that the leases were granted to the tenants at considerably under their value, because that Noble Earl was one of the best of landlords Ireland ever had. These portions of land when sold by the Noble Earl fetched 20 years' purchase. The same land, in simi lar lots, was solrl in 1831, 1835, and 1836, when it fetched twenty-three years' purchase. The average price of estates in the county of Waterfoal was 20 years' purchase. An estate there was, in 1816, sold to a near relative of his own, for 17 years' purchase ; and in 1837 the same estate was sold, under precisely si milar circumstances, for 25 years' purchase. A portion of it, indeed was sold for 30 years' purchase.—( Much cheer ing-) An estate belonging to a relative of his, was sold, under a decree of the Courts in Dublin, within the last 12 ' months, by public auction for upwards of 24 years' purchase although the same land was valued in 1819, at 20 years' purchase. He had thus shown in four different instances,that the value c f property had increased in the county of Water ford,:ef late years' to from three to seven yrars' purchase,:and was this not an evident proof that the landed proprietors and capitalists of Ireland were satisfied that life and pro perty were secure in that country ? He would now coma to the question of the administration of the law, and he thopght it right to state that he himself was a witness of a portion of the progress of the Lord Lieutenant when he visited the gaols in Ireland. He accompanied him to the county gaol and city gaol of Waterford. Oa those occa sions the Lord Lieutenant was also accompanied by the High Sheriff, by the other Magistrates, by the gaol Committee, by the gaol Chaplains, by the gaolers, and by ether persons interested in those institutions ; and there was not a single case gone into upon which each of these individuals was not consulted by the Lord Lieuten ant. The Hon. Baronet opposite smiled at this statement ; but kc could tell that Hon. Baronet that that smile would neither be considered as an answer to his statement of facts which he made from his own knowledge, nor one which the country would regard as becoming him. The Lord Lieutenant likewise consulted every gentleman whom be thought he could obtain any information from, whether he was Whig or To r y, as to the state of the country, and he (Mr. B.) knew that all the information which he received, both as regarded the counties of Waterford and Kilkenny, was, that they had considerably improved since he had succeeded to the Go vernment of Ireland, and it was not till that as,surance was given to him that a single prisoner was releaset-Nor was there a single prisoner released who had been guilty of any but some petty offence, or some green-wax process; nor a prisoner who had been guilty of insurrection or ho micide had been discharged. Nothing could be more easy than to make sweeping denunciations against the Lord Lieutenant, and to say that he had gone on general gaol delivery tours, but those were the mere workings of the imaginations of his enemies, and of those who were jealous of a Whig Lord Lieutenant, because of his amiable disposition and his strict adherence to the administration of justice. He was not one who thought it necessary for the strict administration of justice to hold that every petty offence should be considered as an aggravated case. Ho administered justice with a sound discretion, and that had this admirable effect, that it gave the people a confidence in the Government; it gave them a confidence in the administration of the law. —(Loud cheers.) They did not see the homicide released—they did not see the assassin released, but they saw some miserable . individuals released who had been confined for some petty offences, and sent home to support their families by the sweat of their brow.—( Hear, hear.) Well would it have been for Ireland if other Lords Lieutenant had acted on this principle before. From the manner in which the law had been administered before, the Irish people were never made to know it but to fear it, to dread it, to hate it. They were not led to consider that it was made for their good but for their punishment ; but when Lord Normanby assumed the office of Lord Lieutenant they were made to feel that the law was equal for the rich and for the poor, and that in the due administration of the law there was clemency and kindness mixed up with justice.—(Hear.) It was said that crime had been countenanced, and that it had increased in Ireland. Why, the returns on the table would show that there was more energy and activity on the part of the Magistracy and police than at any former period. That was why the committals had increased by one-sixth, and the convictions had increased in nearly a si milar proportion. In the two counties with which he was connected, Kilkenny and Waterford, crime had been very considerably diminished. The former county, when Lord Normanby came to Ireland, was in a very disturbed state, but at the present moment there was n o t i n t h e empire, whether Middlesex, York, or Devonshire, a more peaceable or tranquil county than Kilkenny. Why, neither himself nor any other Gentleman resident in it, would think of barring their doors before the regular hour of retiring to rest, at twelve or one o'clock at night, any more than he would think of barring the door of the House of Commons, when the Members were coming in. Again, with respect to Waterford, with which he was intimately connected, they had manufactories and mines and mills at work, earrie.d on and worked by English and Irish capital, and the utmost tranquillity prevailed there. Me admitted that a murder had taken place in that county about a year and a- half ago, but it was connected with what had unfortunately given rise to many outrages in Ireland, a dispute about land. But the Government had nothing to do with that atrocious act. A reward was offered by the Government, and the criminal was appre hended and hanged. That was merely a proof of the effi cient manner in which justice was administered in Ireland under Lord Normanby's administration. Again, in the county of Tipperary, a gentleman named Cooper was murdered under similar circumstances ; but that, any more than the other murder, could not be fairly charged against the Government. The people were reviled, and op pressed, and treated with the utmost cruelty. They were sailed wretches and maniacs, and their crimes, which origi 'Wed in the " wild justice of revenge," were brought for ward most prominently, while they were treated like slaves, and worse than the blacks in the West Indies. The dis possession of tenants had occasioned much of this evil, and Noble Lords and the relatives of Hon. Members of that House had taken a prominent part in these proceedings. He knew an instance in which 1,200 individuals were turned out of their homes, and the town almost razed to the ground.—(Cries of " Name, name. ") /I the House required it, or if the facts which he stated were disputed, he could name the parties. If Ireland was in a disturbed state, it was owing to the Government of the Tory faction for a period of 150 years. No people could be ruled more easily than the people of Ireland.— ( Hear, hear.) Let them be only treated with kindness— I let thous be only educated and employed.—( Hear, hear.) Hon. Members on the other side cried " Hear, hear," but they voted against the measures which would confer these advantages on the Irish people—they kept the "word of ' promise to the ear, but broke it to the hope." When the Noble Duke of Richmond was Lord Lieu tenant of Ireland, and when the Right Honourable Baronet the Member for Tamworth was his Secretary, the standing toast at the viceregal table was a standing insult to the Catholics of Ireland.—( Cries of " Oh.") :sAas it not well-known that the "glorious, pious, and immortal memory" was the standing toast ? Had they, during their long dominion, appointed a single Roman Catholic to any place of trust, or power, or emolument ? Not one I wer sad yet they had ventured to assert that they e ready to do equel justice to all parties in Ireland. How could who wore any party have confidence in men bad refused to n a ett even true to themselves ? They admit the Roman Catholics to seats in the LegielatuPa. They had declared their readiness to resign r office rather than consent to such a measure ; an d yet the same party had brough t; a Catholic Relief Bill, g reater Whig Government had cou d l a d red l to pro in extent than any pose —(" Hear, hear.") Neither party ip . ACM, because they knew that political ex a p n e y 11- lialpeet-p.blic principle was the rule of their conduct. Ar it - . 0-_-. . • T. ;44 --, t TILE SUN - , LONDON, THURSDAY, APRIL is. Is3o As to the question of finality, of which the Noble Lord had SO often talked, he considered there was nothing so absurd as to speak of finality and the English Constitution. What, he would ask, was that House for, or the House of Lords, but for the purpose of remedying abuse. He would not now enter at large into this question, but he thought it his duty to protest against such an absurd doctrine as the final ity of Reform. Ile was not for having new consti tutions every five or seven years, but when he saw peat abuses existing for a series of years, be felt bound to say it was the duty of every honest man to try to remedy them. Ile was for moderate, timely, and constitu tional Reform, such as would tend to the good of the people. He believed that the House would for ever blight the interests of the people of Ireland, if they rejected the resolution proposed by the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Home Department, because then they would hays' Lord Roden at.d his allies governing Ireland._ (Cheers.) No doubt that the Court of Russia would rejoice if that resolution were rejected.--.( Hear, hear, hear.) No doubt, if such a course were adopted, the camp of Don Carlos would rejoice with vivas— (Cheers)—and every despot in Europe would rejoice, but unhappy Ireland would be led over to anarchy and confu• sion ; property would be destroyed, and all good land lords, like the Duke of Leinster, would leave in disgust, and those who remained would exclaim— " Vat victis et vat victoribus." Lord INGE STRIE wished to know to whom the Hon. Member had referred in the statement ho had made relative to a Noble Lord. Mr. W. BARRON said that he had alluded to a re latve of the Noble Lvrd. Oa the estates of the Marquis of \Vete' ford, in the county of Waterford, there were, since the contested election in 1836 up to 1839, r.o less than 1,200 individuals turned out of their dwellings, and most of them had been let. Lord INGE STINE must absolutely deny the position the Hon. Member had taken up. Of his own knowledge, those tenants were ejected with their own concurrence— ( Laughter)—they had left their cabins entirely with their own consent; they were forgiven their rents, and they actually assisted in pulling their own houses down. He (Lord Ingestrie) thought that Hon. Members, when they made accusations like those brought torward by the Hon. Member opposite, should take care that they bad all the facts connected with them in their own knowledge. Ile was ready on any occasion when the Hon. Member thought fit to make good his statements, to meet him, and join issue upon them. Mr. W. BARRON said that he had property ad joining that of the Noble Marquis to whom he bad re ferred, and he felt bound to say that some of the tenants of that Noble Lord were at the present moment actually residing in the houses of his tenants for charity. Mr. VII, LIE RS STUART felt bound in justice to the Noble Lord opposite to state that he was not aware of the circumstances to which the Hon. Member referred. &it R. BATE SON would not follow the example set by the lion. Member who had just sat down, in the tone and feeling with which he had addressed the House, be cause he thought on a subject like the present, all party feeling should be thrown aside, end the wel fare of Ireland only considered. He must admit that Ireland had Lnproved in a rapid manner with. in the last twenty years, but he was astonished to hear the Honourable Member quoted high rents as a proof of the prosperity of the country, while a. another moment he stated that the people were starving on account of them. —( Hear, hear.) The statement of the Hon. Member with respect to the landlords ol Ireland was a foul ca lumny upon them.—( Hear, hear. ) If there were such guilty landlords as the Hon. Gentleman had stated, it was his duty to state who they were, and where they resided. As to the statements which had been made by the Hon. Member, relative to the, opposition on that side of the House to the plan for making railroads in Ireland, he thought that it was a job, and that the whole plan of it was bottomed in jobbing. Ile knew capitalists who had been willing to advance money in forming a railroad from Belfast to Armagh— who bad been refused aid from the Treasury, and conse quently obliged to suspend their proceedings. If the Go vernment had brought forward a plan for assisting spirited individuals in Ireland in forming railroads, without refe rence to North or South, he would support it ; but he threw back the taunts of Honourable Gentlemen opposite, and would not be prevented by them from opposing a waste of money on a private job. With regard to education, it was not what had been denominated an Orange faction that had deprived the people of Ireland of the benefits of united education, but it was those who substituted for the system of the Kildare-street Society one which had been universally admitted as a failure. It had been rejected by the Protestants and by the Presbyterian Church of the north. ( Hear, hear, from Mr. O'Connell.) The system was only for the Roman Catholics, and among them there was a schism upon the subject, and large sums had been lavished in support of that system, of which the Hon. Member for the county of Wicklow had a short time since demon strated the complete failure. The Hon. Gentleman had chosen to accuse the Tory party, as ho called them, of having been guilty of a gross insult to all Roman Catho lics, because the Duke of Richmond at the Castle had given the toast of "the glorious memory." This was the first time he had ever heard a Catholic gentleman say that he considered that toast an insult.—(Laughter from the Ministerial side of the House.) He bad seen Roman Catholics join in drinking it as a good old Whig toast, and if there were an old Whig remaining on the other side of the House, which be very much doubted, be would appeal to him if such were not the fact—and no taunts would prevent Protestants from drinking that toast. He bad heard that the Honourable Member for Dublin had drank it in a glass of Boyne water—and he trusted that it would never be considered as an insult by the Roman Catholics. He lamented the bitterness exhibited on the opposite side of the House, against what they called the Orange faction. Orange and Protestant were with them synony mous.—( Cries of, " No, no.") He was never an Orange man, nor hadiever belonged to a Secret Society ; but if the course pursued by the Government was persisted in, the Protestants of Ireland would be compelled to be come Orangemen. The Orangemen had beer, maligned and deceived, faith had been broken with them. The Noble Secretary for the Home Department had said, that if their Society was'dissolved other Societies should be dissolved also, but this had not beeu the case ; they had been made martyrs, and subjected to insults, bodies of troops had paraded the north of Ireland on the 12th of July in consequence of drunken alehouse reports, which had been sent up to Dublin by busy Stipendiary Magistrates, although there had been no intention for meeting, and although persons paraded in military array with green flags on St. Patrick's day, no military force had been sent down, and he con tended even-handed justice had not been dealt out in the north of Ireland when this difference had been msde in the treatment of the Orangemen professing principles of ultra-loyalty, and the Ribbonmen who pro fessed rebellion. It had been stated that when Lord Haddington came into Dublin, the Orange flag waved over his head. If some one in the upper gallery of the theatre waved the flag over his head, how could he help it. He did not believe that Lord Haddington was cognizant of it. The Hon. Member opposite had asked why Lord Nor. manby's Court had been shunned, because he came into Dublin as a party man, surrounded by party flags and ban ners, and accompanied by bands playing party tunes. Mr. O'CONNELL—What do you call party tunes ? Sir R. BATE ON had on one occasion heard, God save the Queen, called a party tune, but he would mention St. Patrick's Day, which was as much a party tune as Boyno Water. With regard to the private character of Lord Nor manby, he could bear testimony to the suavity of his man ners. His successor Lord Fortescue he believed to be a man of excellent private character, but from his ex pressions with regard to the Church of England in Ireland, he considered his appointment a most dangerous one. With regard to the liberation of prisoners by the Lord Lieutenant, they had heard that when he came to Water ford he called a jury, and that none were pardoned without its concurrence. He did not impugn the justice of their decision, but the Hon. Member for Drogheda had made a different representation, and had said how difficult it was for gentlemen of large property to procure a commutation of sentence. It was the power of priests who did it, and their recommendation was more efficient than that of judge or jury. In the year that Lord Normanby came to Ireland two parties in Londonderry had been convicted of outrage, the one Protestants, the other Roman Catholics—the latter, who were the aggressors, were sentenced to nine months' imprisonment, and the Protestants to six. On the day that the Protestants left gaol, the Roman Catholics likewise were liberated, and in answer to a question which he had put in that House, it had been stated that they were liberated on the petition of the jury who tried them. In one week after he had re- ,urnedto Ireland, and nine out of twelve of the jurors had offered to make oath that they had never seen or signed such petition.—(llear.) He wished that other lion. Members would join the Hon. Member for Meath in his wish to drop party animosities, and so far were they from wishing to annoy their Roman Catholic fellow sub jects, that he felt certain that if the Hon. Member for We ford came to the north of Ireland, he would find his Roman Catholic fellow countrymen lived as happily i n th e m id st of the Orange faction as they would if surrounded by per sans of their own religion. The bane as d curse of Ireland was, that a brave, open-hearted , . susceptible p eo pl e , were not allowed to follow the dictates of their own good feelings, but were worked upon by inter es t e d persons for their own base and sordid purposes, and he would tell Hon. Gentlemen opposite that, if they would cease their system of agitation, and devote their time to the improve mant of , the people by giving them a system of education that should teach them their duty to God and to man ; and above all, if they would cease from their endeavour to calumniate the landlords of Ireland, the people of that un happy country would he in a very different position from that in which they now were.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") There was now no security for life or property. A man was now murdered for his religion—not for his purse or property, but because ho worshipped his God.—( Hear, hear.) He despaired of the peace of Ireland, until the Catholic Clergy exercised their power for the purpose of detecting crime. In respect to appointments, be thought the Protestants of Ireland had great reason to complain of partiality. The Protestants of the north of Ireland felt that evenhanded justice had not been dealt out between them and the Roman Catholics in the south. He wou!d not trouble the House further, except to state that he felt great pleasure in supporting the amendment of his Right lion. Friend. The arguments of the Right Hon. Baronet in his luminous, eloquent, unanswerable, and unanswered speech, were so convincing that to attempt to go over them would only be to weaken them, and to waste the time of the House.—(Hear, hear,) Mr. BARRON explained. Mr. G ROTE said that in the course of this debate they had heard several speeches principally, if not entirely, from Irish Members ; those speeches of course entered very largely into the detail of Irish Societies and Irish Ad ministrations, and he trusted that if be declined to follow them into those grounds it would not b e ascr ib e d t o any want of interest in Irish matt ers , b ut that i t wou ld b e ascribed to a befitting deference to their acquaintance with the fact 3. The facts and details fromone side of the House and another, impressed him with a d eep sense of i ts being incumbent on the Legislature to discharge its duty, no less than with a conviction that hitherto tlie Legisla- I turn had not discharged its duty towards Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) The few remarks he should make would be prin cipally in explanation of the vote he should give. If he looked at the terms in which the Noble Lord's resolution was proposed, they seemed to bear exclusively on the Irish administration of late years. The resolution pronounced an opinion as to the good principles that had been ob. served during recent years in the Irish Executive Administration, and as to the propriety of persevering in such coursa for the future,—(Hear.) It touched on no other point, nor did it condemn or approve of any other branch of the Ministerial policy.—( Hear, hear.) if the matter put in issue related exclusively to the Irish Adminis tration, he should have had no hesitation about his vote, nor should he have thought it necessary to trouble the House with any observations. He approved, most cor dially, of those principles which had guided the Marquis of Normanby in his administration of Irish affairs.—( Hear, hear.) He had pronounced that opinion publicly on more than one occasion. He believed the principles acted on by the Marquis of Normanby had been, to a remarkable degree, equitable and beneficial to the entire nation and conciliatory in a high degree towards the feelings of the Catholic majority—( Hear, hear)—but he could not help feeling that on this occasion the proceedings of the Irish Executive Administration were not really put in issue by themselves. He could not conceal from himself that there lay wrapped up in this resolution another issue, indirect and collateral indeed, but yet of very considerable impor tance. They had been told that the vote of the House of Lords, directing an inquiry into the administration of the Marquis of Normanby in Ireland, was tantamount to a vote of censure on the present Administration. The present vote of the House of Commons by the Ministers invoked was intended as a negation of that vote of censure, and therefore more or less implying general approbation and confidence in the Ministry, and he was quite satisfied that when this division should have taken place, the partizans of the present Government would be anxious to proclaim the lofty estimation in which the Ministry was held by the House of Commons. Aware as he was of the construction that might be put on this vote, it had been with him a matter of great consideration whether he could take any part in it not. On the whole, he had come to the conclusion, that, agreeing as he did in the specific and direct import of the resolution, it was his duty to vote in its favour.—(Lotid cheers, and cries of '• Hear hear, hear.") But he certainly would not do so without explaining what his vote was intended to imply— ( Hear, hear)—nor without guarding his vote against such collateral inference as might naturally be deduced from a silent support of the Noble Lord's resolution. His vote was intended to imply nothing more than an approbation, and a very sincere approbation, of the principles which had governed Lord Normanby's Administration in Ireland. Others might connect with that opinion in favour of Lord Normanby's Administration, a feeling of general concur rence and esteem of the policy of the present Minis ters. lie entertained no such feeling, nor would his vote imply it. lie had no wish to see Lord Melbourne continue in office, nor would he support a mo tion to that effect, if it were submitted to the House.— ( Hear, hear.) He would vote for this resolution as he would for a resolution commending the principles on which the Catholic Emancipation Act was passed, without mean ing to imply any concurrence in the views of the Right Honourable Baronet, the Member for Tam worth, by whom that Act was passed.—( Hear, bur.) Whatever Ministry might come to the helm of affairs, it was his wish that the principles which guided Lord Normanby's administration should be persevered in.—( Hear.) He must say that the administration of Irish affairs, stood in remarkable con trast with the other proceedings of the Government. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, and the Hon. Member for Wakefield ( Mr. Lascelles) did not by any means join in the attack on Lord Normanby's Go vernment. What woes the reason that the Fabian tactics of the Right lion. Baronet had been set aside and broken through, and what was the reason that the Noble Lord the Member for Stroud had taken the remarkable step of invoking a resolution in favour of Lord Normanby's Administration? It was because that Administration had been conducted on equitable and liberal principles ( Hear, hear.) It was that which had drawn on him so many attacks from the opposite side, and ,it was that which induced him (Mr. Grote) to concur in a vote in his defence.---( Hear, hear.) He had been asked whether they should upset the coach. He must say there was much about the coach that needed a most complete and extensive repair.--( Hear.) As to any further measures of improvement, either administrative or legislative, he concurred with the lion. Gentleman who wrote that letter to him, that their chance of obtaining any such measures was not a whit greater under the present Ministry than it would be under a Ministry of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Tamworth, and he be lieved that a large proportion of those who were attached to a steady course of progression and Reform were rapidly verging towards that opinion. What was this doctrine about the finality or the sufficiency of the Reform Bill? Because, though the word finality was now repudiated, the thing was carefully maintained—( Hear, hear)—what was that doctrine except an absolute negation of all Reform ? What was it except the Conservative prin. ciple announced in all its plenitude and vigour ? —( Hear, hear, hear.) It could be no secret to any man that as the Representative system was at present established no Reform could be obtained except such as it should please the Right Hon. Gent. the Member for Tamwortn to consent to. They had the Conservative principles now predominant, but he was opposed to a Con servative •Government - ana to a:Finality Government, by whomsoever it might be carried on. But it the country was fated to experience the vexation and disappoint ments it had lately experienced, it was a matter of indifference to him whether the Premier was Lord Mel bourne or the Right Hon. Bart. the Member for Tam worth.—( Hear, hear.) If they could not have an efficient Liberal Ministrv,:the next best thing was an efficient Liberal Opposition—(Hear, hear)—as matters now stood, for the first time in English history, there was neither a Liberal Ministry nor a Liberal Opposition.—( Cheers.) They had a Ministry which, though it once professed Liberal princi ples, yet now neither manifested the will nor possessed the power to accomplish anything but Conservative purposes. They had a most powerful Opposition that now was and always had been essentially Conservative. How long this state of the political world, alike inglorious and unpromis ing would last he did not know ; but no change or combi nation of parties could be more adverse than the present to the success of Liberal principles, and to the accom plishment of substantial reforms throughout our institutions. He would have been well pleased to have been spared that explanation, because he was perfectly certain that it would give satisfaction to neither party, but he had thought it his duty to define the motives which induced him to vote in favour of the Executive Government of Lord Normanby, at the same time he would give his vote for the amend ment of the Hon. Member for Finsbury, because he felt that no Government could do justice to the people either of England or of Ireland, unless they agreed to that mo tion.—( Cheers.) Mr. GIBSON approved of several of the senti ments embodied in the amendment which had been moved by the Right Honourable Baronet the Member for Tamworth, and he was very sin cerely rejoiced to hear from that Right Hon. Baronet that if he were called upon to govern this country, religious opinions should form neither a qualification nor a disquali fication for any office which he had to bestow. He re joiced that the Right Hon. Baronet had given expression to such sentiments, because it had been over and over again asserted that if the Right lion. Baronet acceded to power, he would act upon different principles than those dictated by the spirit of the Catholic Relief Bill. He re gretted that the Right Honourable Baronet had not gone the full length of saying that he would con fer his patronage upon merit—upon those who, whatever their religious opinions might be, were qualified for the office, in place of stating that he would confer that patronage upon political partisans of any description.— (Cheers.) At the same time, he knew that it was an ac knowledged principle upon both sides of the House, that partisans only should be advanced to place; but he for one could not agree in that principle.—( Cheers. ) Everything now was carried on by Associations—whether an alteration was wanted in the Beer-laws, in the Corn. laws, or in any other laws, all now was done by Associations. An Associa tion was a very powerful instrument, whether for good or for evil ; but now that they had become so common, it became a very grave question whether it was proper to put any Member of an Association under a ban, and so deprive him of offi cial patronage. He concurred in every sentiment which had fallen from the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth, regarding party processions, which, of course, must be wounding to the feelings of some party. He hoped that all parties would take that discouragement as applicable to themselves. He hoped that the Protestant Association which was shortly to assemble at Exeter Hall, in order to hear the Protestant agitators, Sullivan and M'Ghee, would consider that the Right Hon. Bart., the leader of a great political party, had positively denounced such pro ceedings as they intended to carry on. ( Loud cheers.) The question, as he understood it, was whether the Government had a right to ask the House of Commons for an approval of their policy in Ireland. Respecting that question, a very great deal depended upon whether the vote of the House of Lords was actually a vote of censure or not. If it was a vote of censure, the Ministry had a right to come to that House and demand to see how far the Representatives of the people would sup port them in their policy. As for waiting for any informa tion that was to be collected by a Committee of the House of Lords, he rejected that idea at once. As a Member of the House of Commons, he felt that he was not bound to take his opinions from any Committee out of that House. —(Loud cheers.) The Right Hon. Member for Tam_ worth said it was not a vote of censure. The Hon Mem ber for Wakefield (Mr. Lascelles) said that the vote went a long way towards it. Another Hon. Member said that:it was an implied vote of censure. The Duke of Wellington in the House of Lords—(Cries of " Order, or der")—an illustrious Duke in another place—( Laughter)- -also said that it was not a vote of censure, but her Ma jesty's Ministers all said that it was so. His experience in Parliament did not give him the opportunity of knowing whether it was so or not, and therefore he would give no vote at all upon the occasion. —(Cheers.) In his opinion, however, the Ministry would not have acted properly, if they had taken a vote of censure upon their policy from :he House of Lords, and not have come to that House and asked it to give an opinion upon the same subject. Sir E. L. BIM WE R said the Hon. Member who had just sat down, did not know whether there had been a vote of censure upon the Government or not. At all events, the vote complained of had established a Committee that was to take into their consideration the whole Executive policy towards Ireland during the last three years.— (Cheers.) Of course, considering the nature of things, that Committee was composed of persons desirous of esta blishing their own views. —(Cheers.) Look at any Irish newspaper, and they would find that this Committee was viewed in no other light, than as an inquisition, appointed to inquire into the liberties of Ireland, and as a Court of Appeal upon the Royal prerogative of mercy.—( Cheers. ) That Committee having been appointed, what course could the Government take, otherwise than to come to that House and ask whether the representatives of the people would support their policy or not.—(Cheers.) The amendment, which had been moved, was honourable to the Right Honourable Baronet, the IVieraber for Tamworth, in so far as it laid no traps for Honourable Members of that side of the House. —( Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet complained that the Government had not asked for a vote of confidence on their general po licy. The reason ie as obvious; they only asked for a par tial vote of confidence, because that only one part of their policy had been called in question. The Right Hon. Baronet, in making out his first proposition, said that the Government were not justified in asking for any declaration of opinion from that House without inquiry, but it appeared to him (Sir E. L. B.) that that was the most cutting de claration against the House of Lords, for they had declared that there was no safety for either life or property in Ireland, while at the same time they were appointing a Committee to inquire into the fact--(Cheers)—appointing a Commit tee, the evidence before which might show that their opi nions were altogether erroneous. —(Cheers.) The Com mittee interfered with the whole executive policy towards Ireland—it was appointed at very moment when a new Lord Lieutenant was entering upon his duties, and evidently with a view to paralyse the whole measures which he might think it his duty to pursue. The Right Hon. Baronet had said that they ought to avoid any col lision with the House of Lords ; but might it not be more properly said that the House of Lords had courted the col lision—that they had called into question the highest pre rogative of the Crown. Was that House then not justi fied in calling into question that conduct.—( Cheers.) If there was no censure in the appointment of the Committee, then there could be no collision in a vote of approval. (Cheers. ) Was not a Government the best judge of what was a vote of censure, and what was not ?—( Hear, hear. ) If it was a vote of censure, fifty collisions would not bring the House of Lords into such contempt as the taking no notice of their conduct by that House. It appeared to hint that no case whatever had been made out for any Com mittee of Inquiry upon the motion of the Hon. Recorder of Dublin, no English statesman had taken an y p ar t d ur i ng t wo nights' debate, and upon the third night, the questionwas not of such consequence as to command the attendance of forty members, and the motion in the House ofLot ds had been car ried by a mere majority of five. The Hon. Member for Belfast had resented the taunt of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin—that he and others who sat with him upon the opposite side of the House had no affection for their native country. He ( Sir E. L. B.) must say that he had heard many Members of that House belonging to Ire land take such a course as tended to show that the great majority of their country were cut-throats and blood-suckers. If they wished to show that property was insecure, they must show a diminution in the value of land, but land had considerably increased in point of value.—( Hear, hear.) And during this time of hope and comfort to the C ohne population, the Protestant minority had lost no substantial benefit. —( Hear, hear.) Had they not under the Administration of Lord Normanby, obtained that by the Bill which they could never obtain under any other ? It might be a reproach to the administration to have passed it without the appropriation clause, but that reproach could not come from Hon. Gentlemen opposite--( Hear, hear)-- for if they had been in office, if lord Normanby had not by mild and conciliatory government disarmed hostility-- that Bill would have been resisted from one end of Ireland to the other. —( Hear, hear.) The benefit of a concilia tory Government was as much for the minority as for the majority.--( Hear, hear.) He wished to ask Hon. Gen. tlemen opposite one question—Were they prepared on the subject of Irish policy to expel the present Government and take on themselves the reseonsibility of office ? The Right Hon. Baronet had alluded to affairs abroad, but when it was so unpopular to talk of increasing the military force, how could he expect to keep up the tithe war and Orange domhiation.—( Cheers.) With respect to the more general question which had been touched on by the Hon. Member for London, this was not a vote of general confidence in the Ministers ; if it were, he should ask the Hon. Member for London, before he called on any Re former to take measures for the rejection of the present Administration, to show in the history of the coun try any Government, with the exception of Lord Grey's, which was more clearly identified with great and imperishable amelioration.—( Loud cheers. ) It was impossible to have a stationary Government with a progressive people.—( Hear, hear.) The great mass of the middle classes were not prepared to demand a new Reform Bill, but they were prepared to demand that greater effect should be given to the Reform Bill which they now possessed. He spoke the sentiments of the people when he stated that they were desirous of a shorter duration of Parliament—( Hear, hear)—and of giving their votes without being subject to intimidation under influence and the sacred ties, and loss of trade and custom —( Cheers)—he did not think these changes extravagant, and certainly when the people saw the Government oppos ing them they considered that they were opposing princi ples that they had formerly supported.—( Cheers.) This was not a question of the fate of a Government, but the fate of a once independent nation, which hall been de prived of a crown, whose priesthood had been humbled, whose senate had been silenced, and who now sought this country to take her children under the letter of our own laws.—( Cheers.) Mr. LITTON said they were all agreed that crime existed in Ireland, and why should they attempt to stifl e inquiry by agreeing to the resolution which had been pro posed by the Noble Lord.—(Hear, hear.) Whether the resolution of the House of Lords implied censure or not, he should not stop to inquire. If it did not it should not have been proposed to the House to elicit a vote fa vourable to the present Government, because a vote had been carried by a small majority, on an isolated portion of their policy. What could be the object of the Ministers in this House by endeavouring to stifle information? 11 what the Ministers of the Crown stated were true, why not have that truth proclaimed in the face of the nation on the evidence to be produced by the House of Lords? Why seek to cushion that which should be their canopy, their shield and their justification if their assertions were true ? --(Hear, hear.) And if the allegations on the opposite side were true, why refuse the opportunity of arriving at the real state of the facts. They (the Opposition) al leged that the state of crime in Ireland was owing to the misgovernment of Lord Normanby, and circumstances con nected with his government. On the other hand, it was alleged that the misfortunes of Ireland were owing to the want of attention to their duties by the landlords, to tithes, and other matters. They (the Opposition) asserted that Lord Normanby, by not consulting the judges before open ing the gaols to criminals, bad injured the administration of the law. On the other hand it was asserted that this was done in the exercise of the prerogative of mercy, and had done no harm to the administration of justice. Here was another issue for inquiry ; they (the Opposition) again asserted that the law had in truth been opposed by the Irish Government this assertion was contradicted by the other side of the House, and there was another issue to be tried. He was desirous that every British Member of Parliament should form his judgment after a deliberate investigation and comparison of full evidence, so that in future they need have no doubt respecting the degree in which they should support or oppose the Irish Government. His (Mr. L's) own opinion was, that the Irish Government had. shown the greatest possible partiality in distinguish ing between religions, and had done infinite mischief by holding communications with the agitators of the strintry. The Hon. Gentlemen opposite, among whom were many Hon. and Learned Friends of his, hadsaid that the present system of government had done great good to the country instead of great evil, and that the confidence of the agi tators proved that they looked up to it as to a parental Administration. Here, again, both sides joined issue. He therefore asked f or i nqu i ry , i n order that men of all po litics, and men of no politics at all, should be enabled to judge for them se l ves w hi ch side was right and whi c h wrong. A British House of Commons ought to insist on full details; whilst he felt confident that the Report of the Committee would superinduce, up on the present Govern ment, the disapprobati on o f the Members of this House, and of the British people in g enera l , the Hon. Gelemenpe. site asserted that the result wou l d be in their favour. ? W If i t t h h a in t then were their convicti on , w h y object to inquiry fifty years, the landlords an d t h e tenants of Ireland were united by ties similar to those that bound the patrons and clients in the old Roman hist or y. I t was so even within his own memory. But instead of that happy relation, those ties were now severed, the peasantry were alienated, and the landlords were expatriated in alarming numbers, and British capital had never been so effectually excluded, while the population was under the almost entire ' sway of the agitators. 'tie appealed to the Honourable Gentlemen opposte, whether those were not the facts, and then he asked them why in the name of heaven, they resisted an i nquiry which promised to disclose the the causes of that calamitous state of things, and to sug gest a remedy for them ? As for the threat that had been thrown out that the acrsession of a Conservative Govern ment would excite a rebellion in Ireland, he treated it as highly ridiculous in the last degree. He believed in his soul that the Irish peasantry pined for a steady Govern ment that would relieve them from the tyranny of the agitators—would protect their industry—would encourage manufactures and the introduction of British capital. As for the petitions presented in support of the Ministry the mode of their getting up was well explained last night by the lion. Member for Monaghan. It was an undeni. able fact that the mass of those who possess a stake in Ire land, and were truly interested in her welfare, were opposed to her Majesty's Government generally, but especially to its Irish Administratiot 1. He would now briefly refer to the petition presented :last night by the Hon. and Learned Member-for Dublin, from a meeting held in suppo rt o f h er Majesty' s Ministers in that city on the 11th inst. He (Mr. Litton) would :not deny that the petition was ' very interesting, and f bat it was numerously signed by men of the highest respectability, but it did not con vey the unanimous feelings of the city of Dublin. He appealed to the Noble Lord opposite (Morpoth) whether 9- lOths of th e i n fl uent i a l ! and respectable citizens of Dub lin would not, if called upon, dissent from the la n guage of that petiti on ? lie bad t i high respect for that Noble Lord, and he should be alwriys ready to bear testimony to his kindness and gentlemanlike forbearance, and he had no doubt that his Lordship would corroborate his assertion.._ (Laughter, an d o Hear.") Nay, the petition did not even convey the unanimous revsent of those who were present at that meeting. He had received letters which enabled him to assert that Alderman Atcher, f orm erly a Lord Mayor of Dublin (th an w h om there was not a more respectable citizen in any country) had attended for the purpose of moving " that an humtele and dutiful address be presented to her Majesty, detailit. g the evils of a general course of policy pursued by her Majesty's Ministers and praying her Majesty t o dismiss them. from her Councils."—( Laughter, and Hear, hear.) Mr. Smith was to have seconded the resolution —the resolution was presented to the Duke of Leinster (the Chairman), and he believed his Grace would have put it, if ho had not been prevented ; and the worthy Alderman and his friend were assured that, if they persevered in their motion, they would be kicked out of the house. (Hear, and laughter.) Mr. GRATTAN said he was on the platform of the meeting, and heard no such threat. Mr. LITTON would at once believe the Hon. Gentleman, but his n o t h ear i ng the threat was no proof that it h a d not been uttered. The fact was, the house in which the meeting was held was filled with the creatures and sup porters of the Irish Government. Ho repelled the chaege that the Irish Members on his side o? the 1 - I,we w:re nal Irishmen, or that they had attacked their countrymen — they had only exerted themselves to save their credulous felloi-countrymen from being withdrawn from their proper occupations and being made the tools and,stepping- stones of designing agitators.—(Hear, hear.) Vie 1-;tten) had never belonged to the Orange Society, nor to any se cret body, but it was only justice to the Orangemen to say that they had at once yielded to the wish of their Sovereign that they should disband. He had voted against the se cond reading of the Irish Corporation Bill, because he be lieved that the effect of the Government measure would be to establish so many schools of politcal agitation, and that agitation had greatly injured Ireland. He begged to say that neither himself nor any other member of his party were ever driven to vote against their own judgment. that they were independent in the votes they gave—and that though they might sometimes differ upon particular measures, they were but taking different roads to the same point; and the guiding star of their political course was the preservation of the Church, and the maintenance of Protestantism in the empire —and, therefore, never let it be supposed that because, on some occasions, certain in dividuals in that party voted differently from their leaders, that therefore there was division in the camp. ( Hear. ) The Noble Lord opposite, at the conclusion of his speech on Monday, had spoken of his Ministry as falling; he ( Mr. Litton) believed that when that Ministry fell it would not fall, as the Noble Lord had said, in an endeavour to knit together the hearts of her Majesty's subjects, but because it had forfeited public confidence, and was a feeble, imbecile, and inconsistent Government from whose fall he (Mr. L.) anticipated the greatest benefits to the empire. —(Opposi tion cheers.) Mr. PIGOTT (the Solicitor-General for Ireland) then rose and said, it was not his intention to enter into a discus sion of any of those irrelevant topics which had been alluded to by his Hon. Friend who had just sat down, and who had certainly thrown a new light upon the resolution of the House of Lords, which it would now seem was not directed to inquire into the causes of crime in Ireland, but to enter into transactions which had been often dis cussed in both Houses—to inquire, for instance, whether with respect to writs of rebellion, the Government had afforded enough or too little assistance to the legal autho rities.—( Hear, hear.) He would call the attention of the House to matters more connected with the subject of de bate. He had watched with some anxiety for arguments as to the administration of the law in Ireland, which had been over and over again touched upon in former discussions, and he had heard facts stated, and opinions expressed on this subject which had caused him the greatest astonishment. The Hon. Member for Belfast (Mr. E. 'Pennant) had, in a speech betraying no little care in its composition—( Hear, hear, and laughter)—stated charges against the Irish Go vernment with regard to the administration of the law, which were, in point of fact, totally unfounded, and he had expressed opinions which had no authority in the law of the country. With regard to the Special Commission in Tipperary the Honourable Member appeared desirous of contrasting that commission with what ordinarily took place at the assizes in Ireland ; that the juries were differ ently constituted, and that, therefore, convictions were ob tained. But the jury bad been selected in the ordinary manner, and he ( Mr. P.) could state that so satisfied were the prisoners with the constitution of the tribunal that several of their challenges were inexhausted—( Hear) — and they were tried by a Jury composed of 9 Roman Ca tholics and 3 Protestants. —( Hear.) The Hon. Member had repeated a charge which had been often advan c ed, that the Irish Government had abandoned the right of challenging jurors. The practice of challenging by the Crown had formerly been exercised without any limitation• In 1835 the present Judge Perrin, then Attorney-General for Ire lan 1, had directed that no juror should be objected to on the ground either of religion or politics_( Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—and that jurors were to be ob. jected to on the part of the Crown only for some just and reasonable cause, and then the objection was to be made by the Crown Solicitor, an officer who should be re_ sponsible for the exercise of his discretion.--( Hear.) To say that the practice had been abandoned altogether was totally incorrect, but the Irish Government had felt that nothing could so injure the administration of justice as al lowing the public prosecutor to pack the juries--( Hear, hear)—seeing that all such unfair practices tended to en list public sympathy with the culprit.—( Hear, hear.) And instead of referring to this as an offence on the part of the Government, he (Mr. P.) considered it as one of their greatest glories.— (Cheers.) He was amazed at another charge which had been brought forward by the Hon. Member for Belfast, that the Crown Counsel had abandoned the right of reply in prosecutions. Nothing could ba more unfounded, and he could refer to a recent case in which, on the prosecution of a Roman Ca tholic priest, the Roman Catholic Counsel for the prosecution had spoken to evidence.—( Hear, hear.) Then, as to the dispensation of patronage at the bar in Ireland, squally amazed had he been to hear the Hon. Member actually assert that during Lord Normanby's Ad ministration not one single person had obtained the honour of a silk gown at the Irish bar, who did not belong to a particular clique in religion, or a particular party in poli tics. Surely the Honourable Member must recollect the names of Messrs. Collins, Miller, Brooks, and others, who bad received that advancement in their profession which was due not only to them but to their clients---( Hear) —and who were not of the Government politics.—( Hear.) He would fearlessly contrast the conduct of the Governs ment in this respect with that of former Governreasts ; and he would mention this one fact, that the present Judge Perrin, who had been at the bead of the common law bar in Ireland, had yet been allowed to pass the greater part of his professional life without that silk-gown which he saw bestowed upon his juniors in years and standing, and which he did not at last procure till the Judges remonstrated with the Government.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The same system of exclusion had been carried on in Scotland and in England.— (Ironical cheers from the Opposition.) Well, if that were denied, would it be said that in England and in Scotland an impartial system had been adopted, and that it was only in Ireland that injustice had been per petrated ?—( Loud cheers.) With regard to promotion to the Bench by the present Government in Ireland, he would only name Judge Perrin, Sir M. O'Loghlen, and Chief Baron Wolfe, and leave the House to decide whether they were not admirable appointments.—(Loud cheers.) Tha [lon. Member for Belfast had said that he thought this fact enough that there were 27,000 criminals in one year in Ireland. He would now describe to the House what had been done in Ireland with respect to the Admi nistration of the law, and if he were asked what effects ho should look for in order to prove that an improvement had taken place in the administration of the law, he should be inclined to say that he would expect to find a diminution in the more grave offences—secondly, an apparently greater amount of minor offences, testing the vigi lance of those whose duty it was to carry the law into effect—farther, he should expect to find that the proportion of committals to convictions should be reduced, and he would now read to the House the result of his in quiries, which would not be a mere collection of figures, and he begged their earnest attention to it. In the first place, the Hon. Member who spoke last but one was per fectly correct in saying that in those graver offences there was a marked diminution of the number. He was quoting from the police returns, and it appeared that from 1834 to 1838 homicides had diminished 13 per cent., firing at the person 15 per cent., in cendiary fires 17 per cent., burglaries 58 per cent., stealing cattle 46 per cent., killing and maiming cattle 12 per cent., administration of unlawful oaths 66 per cent. —(Loud cheers)—illegal notices 41 per cent., attacks on houses 63 per cent., illegal meetings 70 per cent., and levelling houses 65 per cent. On the subject of convictions, in proportion to committals, corn. paring the years 1823, 1824, and 1825, with 1836, 1837, and 1838, he found that the convictions were increased in proportion to the committals, from 28 per cent, to 43 per cent., and that the non-prosecutions had diminished from 34 per cent. to 21 per cent.— ( Hear, hear, hear.) Comparing 1832, 1833, and 1834, with 1836, 1837, and 1838, he found that the non-prosecutions had diminished from 39:t0 20 per cent. and comparing the year 1834 with 1838, there appeared this remarkable result, that the convictions had increased from 40 per cent to 47, and the failures had diminished from 36 per cent. to 15 per cent.—( Hear, hear.) These results were all taken from printed documents—they were not taken from the records of the Clerks of the Peace or the Clerks of the Crown, but from the reports of those who checked their returns with the actual goal books,— namely, the Inspectors of Prisons. Honourable Members did not appear to know the simple machinery by which these returns were prepared—the local inspectors of prisons were almost all clergymen of the Established Church--they were in constant correspondence with the inspectors, and finding glaring errors in the returns of the clerks of the peace, and crown, who acted without salary, and without responsibility, they had been in the habit of inspecting the books of the goal, and thereby checking the multiplication of cases, and preventing any being in cluded, excepting the individuals actually in cus tody. These were transmitted from time to time to the Inspector-General of prisons. The Right Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Shaw) shook his head, but he challenged him to disprove these statements. It was impossible that jus tice could be done to the Government, or the people over whom it presided, until the matter was fully investigated. The Clerk of the Peace for the county of Tipperary gave of persons . d pea ‘ e t inr h yse oee person committals. had r i)dsnocnnlHou These i m eh, e n i nln s ddlt o , .0i h indicted rtl ascer tainingeyedd tfffithe ,eer.the following account of the mode in which the annual re as turns u r r statement s e t h r e e made aocftutahl oe numberu t r . threere nt b i 1 1 1 d s of ffo r e n t indictment, offe returns from which the Hon. Member for Belfast took his 27,000.—(Renewed cheering.) These were the returns which had deluded an illustrious Duke in an_ other place.._ (A laugh, and great cheering.) He was justified in saying deluded, when_ statements were h i thech were o b e not p u well ke founded.took the re turn made that which It was from that statement of 700 mur ders in one • year.—< , If any person was indicted for three different offences —for instance, riot, rescue, and assault— in the annual return it would appear as three if persons; the party was respited, the party would appear again as three persons ; consequently the number of persons was considerably increased in these returns." He would now read for the House an extract of a letter from an inspector of prisons for a northern county ( Donegal), who stated that " he was often with the Clerk of the Peace when he prepared his returns, and he had strictly charged him to return the name of any person more than once. If the returns for 1835 and 1836 were examined these errors would be discovered, and even in 1838 there would be found twenty-nine instances in which the same persons for the same offences were returned twice, and one three times."—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The Hon. and Learned Member then read an extract from the return, and observed that it wculd appear from that that ten persons counted for twenty, and four persons counted eight. He would now read to the House the mode adopted to prevent similar errors occurring in the report of the Inspector General of Prisons. The Ho nourable Member then proceeded to describe the course numberells and He said s o a adopted by the Inspectors of Prisons upon the spot, stating that he would leave it to the House to decide which party was capable of making the best return.—(Hear, hear.) The calculations lie had referred to were taken from unt!Lnitic printed document, v‘bich were open to every Member, and for the fidelity of which he could answer. The House had already been put in possession of the change that had taken place shortly art?_.r the secession of Lord Normanby to the administration of the fi?overnment in Ireland, in the police force of the country. When Lord o r asstnite(l the Government of Ireland, the police force wag dn4k;r thepiddnee of local officers, selected by the Magiqrates, and tnerefOre if focal influence bad anything to do in the appointment, it might be eereiscd to a great extent. That evil was at once seen, Cod oiia of the first acts of Lord Normanby's administration was to bring nut a change in the police force in that respect, and to bring it to Its present state of efficiency. In 1835 after great difficulties, the law at present in existence relative to the police in Ireland was passed, and that force was now under the guidance of one head.— (Hear.) He would not detain the House longer, but would leave Hon. Members to say whether the present effective administration of the law in Ireland was attribu table to the Government of Lord Normanby, or to that of Hon. Members on the other side of the House.—( Hear.) Mr. SHAW had not intended to have addressed the [louse, but as he had been so pointedly alluded to by the Hon. Member opposite he could not give a silent vote. The Hon. Member had commented in severe terms on the course pursued by his Hon. Friend the Member for Bel fast, in relation to his observations relative to the appoint ment of Sheriffs. For his (Mr. S's) own part, he believed the Committee appointed by the House of Lords relative to the appointment of Sheriffs had been productive of most beneficial result.—( Hear, hear. ) The tion. rind Learned Gentleman bad said that Judge Perrin had been deprived of his lust rights by not having a silk gown. He believed his I on. and Learned Friend was mistaken in this statement, that no junior had been put oVer Jiidge Perrin's head, and in fact that Judge Perrin had been appointed a King's Counsel at the earliest possible period that he could hold the appointment.— (Cheers ) He would ask the lion and Learned Gentle man to name a single junior who had been put over Judge Perrin's head. He had been requested by a senior mem ber of the Irish bar, who was a Member of that House, to ask the question.—( Loud cheers.) Mr. PIGOTT made some answer which was inaudible in the gallery. Mr. F. SHAW would now examine the statements that had been made relative to the discrepancies between the returns of the Clerks of the Peace and the Inspector. General. If the Clerks of the Peace had returned per. sons three or tow times over, it was a new practice— (Cheers)—and in disobedience to the Actt of Parlia ment, which provided that they should retvrn persons and not offences. The Inspectors. Generals themselves, assigned a different reason from that which bad been as signed for thetii by Hon. Gentlemen opposite.—( Loud cries of Order.) Here the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was oblig,cd to pause in consequence of the noise at the bar, which was frequently so great as to tender hrn almost unintelligible. Order having been at length restorcil , he proceeded). - He found appended to the returns of the Inspectors for 1834, an observation to the effect that thes,:' discrepancies were owing to the fact, that the returns mad 3 by the Clerks of the Peace included only the cases brought to trial, and that the returns made to the Government in. eluded the cases of many persona who were never brought to trial; so that their account varied materially from the account of the Noble Lord and of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite ; and if the Clerks of the Peace had returned three persons instead of one, they had no reason or excuse for so doing. With regard to the resolution of the Noble Lord, he would ask was it fitting for this House to call in qu0...60n the undoubted right of the House of Lords, more especially at this House had moved for returns on the subject sthich had not yet been laid on the table. The Noble Lord had said that the returns moved for were returns which had been annually gratitcd, but they were not re turns of course—those returns included ttatter's which had never been included in former returns, and the Noble Lord had not objected. The Noble Lord had t'unted them with not bringing forward a motion on this subjlct— had even stated that Lord Normanby was unable to apply himself to the business of the Colonial Office, in consequence of the expectation he entertained of some awful proceeding being instituted on this subject, and now the Noble Lord constitutes a vote for inquiry, which he himself had provoked, into a vote of censure.---( Cheers. ) He could state that nothing was further from the mind of his Noble Friend who had moved for the Commitce ; that he was astonished at the importance attached by her Majesty's Ministers to the consequences of that motion, which he had imagined would have been granted without opposition, and the fact that the question was car ried by a majority of five only, was a proof that it was never considered as a party question.— ( Hear, hear.) But connected as he had been with the administration of justice in Ireland for the last eleven years, he entirely dis sented from the Noble Lord, the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and contended that the acts of Lord Normanbe 's Government had not tended to the efficient administration of justice in Ireland, or to the general im provement of the country.—(Cheers.) In making this statement, he was anxious that his views of the principles by which the Irish Government ought to be guided, should not be misrepresented.—( Hear, hear.) It was not a fact that there were only two parties in Ireland each professing extreme political opinions ; how ever it might suit the purposes of artful persons to repre sent all who disapproved of agitation as factious bigots, he utterly repudiated the charge. He was surprised to find the Chancellor of the Exchequer did not think it unwor thy of his notice that a foolish boy waved an Orange flag over the head of Lord Haddington in the Theatre, an act which was disapproved of both by Lord Haddington and the great body of those who supported him. He had al ways opposed secret societies, but he thought that after the Orange Society, in obedience to the commands of his Majesty, and in accordance with the wishes of that House, has disbanded too much encouragement had been given to Societies of a contrary nature ; he did not blame the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite for having joined such a Society, but he did not consider it fair and impartial justice in her Majesty's Ministers to transfer !he services of that Hon. and Learned Gentleman direct from that Association to the Government, by promoting him to one of the most important offices connected with the administration of justice, and in the exercise of which he would be brought in direct con tact with the magistracy of the kingdom.—( Hear, hear. ) He desired to see no other qualification for office but per sonal fitness, but it had been the tendency of the conduct of the Irish Government to impress the people with the belief that agitation and Associations formed the surest passports for promotion.—( Hoar, hear, hear.) He would now say a few words with respect to the prerogative of mercy. He agreed with what had fallen from the Home Secretary on the subject, that the most valuable, and the most delicate prerogative of the Crown should be interfered with with great caution. But, on the other hand, he maintained it should not be lavishly exer cised, without care or discrimination, for the purpose of swelling personal popularity on a tour throughout the country. in In the county o f Sli go 25 persons w ere dis charged one batch. Of these 25 persons, two had been ordered by the Judge to find security for good behaviour after their discharge ; and another out of the twenty-five was to be confined six months longer, unless he could find bail for his good behaviour at the expiration of his term of imprisonment. In one case the offence was great—sentence of death was recorded ; and yet the order of the Lord Lieu tenant was, "to be discharged on marrying Mary Ryan." Could the Sovereign in this country pursue that course which her Representative had done in Ireland ?—( Cheers.) Would the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Home Department dare to recommend such a course.— (Cheers.) Would the people of England tolerate it. He wondered not that the Government under those circum stances flinched from the inquiry, and asked that House to pronounce an opinion on the subject without inquiry—and the House of Commons was asked to say that such con duct as this tended to the effectual administration of jus tice,,( Hear, hear.) It could be shown that the office of the Judges of the land had been treated with contempt, that in one case a superior Judge tried a prisoner for a most aggravated offence connected with forgery—that prisoner was convicted, and sentenced to two years' imprisonment. The Judge received no communication of any sort, but the next week, walking in the streets of Dublin, he was confronted by the very man whom he had tried and sentenced to imprisonment.—(" Name, name.") It was a delicate matter, hut he had no objection to tell the Noble Lord privately the name of the Judge. He had no hesitation in saying that the prisoner stag the father of a son who was in Maynooth, and that it would spoil ills advancement if his father was confined for any length of time..—( Hear, hear.) He would not state the name of the Judge. Suppose a person convicted of an offence, and that the Judge was written to that the law should take its course; the Judge says the prisoner is not deserving of mercy; a letter is written to the Government from his brother, a Roman Catholic clergyman, saying that the Judges are wrong, and then the prisoner is liberated.— (Cheers.) The name of the prisoner was acoshan. It was because the Judges were treated with disdain that they abstained from attending at the Vice-Regal Court.— He had never charged the Government with being the cause of all the crime in Ireland, but he charged them with giving countenante to agitation. ...(Cheers.) During the last two nights they had had many petitions, but no doubt they were all in the same language, and he had no doubt also in the same handwriting.—( Hear, hear.) Such a state of things existed merely from the necessities of the lion. and Learned Member for Dublin, and Roman Catholic priests were dragged into it much against their will and their conviction. They did not like their altars desecrated in the manner they had often been, and would be glad to get rid of the thraldom.—(Cheers.) He wished the laws to be enforced firmly but temperately— let justice be administered, but in its milde s t sense— (Cheers)--let the Government strenuously - diseo;age agitation—(Cheers)—whether it be Whig or Tory let the Government know no religion, and Ireland would be safe.—( Loud chew's.) Mr. MORGAN JOHN O'CONNELL then moved the adjournment of the debate. The House adjourned at Twelve o'Clock. NEW NOVEL, EDITED BY JAMES MORIER, ESQ.--We are requested to state that the new work of fiction, entitled " The Banished, an Historical Tale of Suibia," edited by J ames Morier, Esq., author of " Hajji Baba," " Zobrab the Hostage," &c., in 3 vols. post Bvo., is published this day by Mr. Colburn, of Great Marlborough street, and rday now be had at all the Libraries. Mr. Colburn has also just published Captain Marryatt's new naval novel, " The Phantom Ship," in 3 vols., post Bvo., and the " Romance of the Harem," by Miss Pardoe, author of " The City of the Sultan," &c. 3 vols. post Bvo. SEED TIME.—It is exceedingly pleasant to speak of a favourable seed time, after three years of un propitious seasons. The springs of 1836.37-38 were wintry ; the spring of 1839 has been cold, but such as to advance agricultural operations. The oat seed is now in the ground, in a better bed than it has had for years. The potatoes—that esculent on which our population so much depend—will be planted by active farmers before this week is closed. The high prices of the last two years has given an impetus to agricultural industry, and in the event of a good summer we may expect an amount of produce fully sufficient for the wants of our population. Our cli mate may not be the best—our stdl :nay be cold and corn fortless, 3of British skill and industry a r e so effe.e tive that - in ordinary seasons we could ex p ort f ood as we didin former ages.— Glasgow Chronicle. EVENING EDITII HER MAJESTY'S LEVE St , ire Queen held a Levee yestei.4ay afternoon, 'l atc r i fr aLts a m fler pa M l a a c je e s , ty e s c c a o m rt e ed in b si ; at , e t , p e a t r t t w y o: f Guards. Her Majesty's suite c onsisted of the Coundt?l.s ( Charlemont and the Marchiones s of Tavisteck, La Waiting • Viscount Torrington, Lor d in Waiting , William 'C in ow ‘‘ p a e i r t , int; ?r ; oram mast i e n r c lA G Ta v i v t e i i n i g a: ndColoiatisetlerßuccakviH` dish, Pages of Horton:* in Waiting. 13: iron The Duke of C trobriclcre arrives, a ttended yb - Knesebeck ; the Duke of Sua"aex also a tteuded the Le rev n t a tto oto In the Diplomatic Circle, the foilovvin Pre se the Queen took place:— • ip by Count The Baron deStrcglitz,and M.de Stchert Pczzi di Borgo, the Russian Ambas3ador. Barol M. Balek, of the Hanoverian Infantry, by Munehausen. the Hanoverian Minister. M. Joas Oliveira de Carvalho, Attache to the L egat: of her Most Faithful Majesty, by the Chevalie r Rels ale Carvalho, Portuguese Charge d'Affaires. M. B. Muriel, Attache to the Mexican Legatic M. , Garre the Mexican Minister. At the Entree Levee, General Viscount Combs ren° ll was presented, on his marriage, by General Lord H a ble Hon. Edward Butler, Lieutenant of the Bono , iret Corps o f Gentleman-at-Arms, on his ma rria g e, la I the Captain, Lord Foley. Sir John Morillyon Wilson, on being appointed a e i !: panion of the Most Honourable Military Order of the Bet h ' and receiving the honour of Knighthood , by the M ircl°l of Tweeddale. The Levee was attended by the Ru ,- sian and Fre i Ambassadors, Reschid Point, Ottoman .Ambassa.Jora a° Mr. Salame, her Majesty's Oriental Interp,-eter, the ar temberg, Belgian, Bavarian, Netherlands, .rdiniart 1 1 1 " noverian, Spanish, Mexican, and .axon MOW" ; ate . De Hummelauer, Austrian Charge d'Affaires Daron de hausen, Swedish Charge d'Affaires; Chevalier Rebel 101. Carvalho, Portuguese Charge d'Affaires; Praire • es Soutza, Grecian Charge d'Affaires ; Command, Mss Lisboa, Brazilian Charge d'Affaires ; Count S tont, n n ron Behr. Bolgian Ministef to the Sublime 0t .. " - a a nd Porte ; Mr. Nothomb, Minister for Public Wo. 101 ', a; Member of the Belgian Chamber of Represei tta'll4,. Baron Werther, Secretary of the Prussian Legatic in; ; ‘ ,9 ' ron Bentinck, Secretary of the Netherlands Le ra t ,be Mr. Henry Brockholst Livingston, attache t o United States' Legation ; Mr. de Paiva, 004' to the Brazilian Legation ; Mr. Negrete, eere" tary of the Mexican Legation; Ali Effendi First Secretary to the Turkish Embassy, Count Wor 00 °4 the Archbishops of Canterbury and York, Bishop or Lnei don, the Lord President, Lord Privy Seal, First Lor d° the Treasury, the Secretaries of State for the 1-1:0Inei Foreign, and Colonial Departments, the First 'Le /1 U the Admiralty, the Secretary at War, the Earl Mal 1 P o the Lord Steward, the Lord Chamberlain, the, Mast ~er :b e H ei se. the Captain of the Honourable Corp of ` L ' ef H the tiemen firms, Lord Hill, G o ld Sti c k i n W a iting', ;be Captain of the Yeomen Guard , the Treasurer 01 , : o f Househoid, the Contitroller of the Household, Maio:V i no Huntly, Aid-de-Camp 4 0 the Queen, the Master 01 i t b e Ceremonies, Mr. Thema% Shiner, Paymaster of sir Household; Mr. Sulivan, Deputy Secretary at War,..,; s Thomas Reeve, Standard-bearer to the Honourable o° l o of Gentlemen at Arms, the Solicitv-General, Sir V iillis_f Woods, K. 11. Garter, Rev. Dr. Si,ort, Deputy Cl lark e r , the Closet, Sir George Houlton, Ensign of the Y: !on ie qf Guard, Colonel Cavendish, Clerk Marshal,. Mr. t ibe r 'f Wood, Mr. James Bunco Curling, Clerk of the Chonitrii ! the Hon. Corps of Gentlemen at Arms, Lieutenan t-LA'. Reid, 2d Life Guards, Silver Stick, Sir B. Smith, CB 01 11 5 ' Sir Francis Collier, Naval A.. C. in Waiting D. Co'inn e „ Sir Adolphus Dalrymple and Wynyard, C. to Queen ; Captain George Pechell, R. N. Equerry to i!, e , Queen Dowager ; Colonel Walton, Field OiScer Waiting ; Captain Green and Mr. Blackwood, Gentleln° Ushers in Waiting. Among . the general company were Mr. Colqubo.ilinr: Agent and Consul General for the Hanserowns; o s George Frederick Dickson, Consul General for 1 3 u ell o f Ayres ; Sir Harris Nicolas, Chancello ,. of the Order St. Michael and St. George ; Mr. Ja.,atice Ersit e c i Count de Salis; Mr. Birch, of the House of Loree;rlas Captain Stockenstrorn, Lieutenant Governor at the of Good Hope. „„cat 'Mr. Justice Erskine was presented on his appoiLlt"" 00 as one of Her Majesty's Justices of the Court of C on. 4 Pleas by the Lord Chancellor. a Captain Stockenstrom was presented by the Marquis" Normanby. also The following Noblemen and Gentlemen wore a present : MARQUISES—Tavistock, Aylesbury, Exeter. Der' EARLS—Cbarleville, Bandon, Clarendon, Can i r i ra y, down, Bruce, Shaftesbury, Wilton, Dela Warr, De 'La ' Clanwilliam, Durham, Shelburne, Talbot, Aatier' Grey, Sandwich, Ripon. VISCOUNTS—MeIgund, Clive, Grimston, Marsh.'on' d LORDS--Dinorben, Gardner, Eliot, SegraYe, Rtl s el. Edwa.d Howard, William Russell, Prudhoe, S t u a rt, P a , - Saye and Sole, Seymour, Crofton, Portman, Jetties P',, - 01 Lyttleton, Bolton, Farnham, Rolle, Heytesbury, 1 1° ' worth, Montford. nge 6 Bistions—Norwich, Winchester, Salisbury, a-8 Chester, Ripon. Rober t RIGHT HONOURABLES—Sir Rhbert ‘ordon, Si: r Adhir, Sir G- Ousely, Charles Brownlow. virm• r aser, tioNoußAßLEs—Sidney Herbert, H. Corry, - E. H, Grimston, J. C. Hanbury Tracey. BARONETS—James Clark, Henry Dukinfielct, Somerville. John P. Boileux, J, Herschell, H. wood, M. T. Farquhar, Walter Stirling, C. K n ightlelf J. Barrow, J. Gerard, S, Glynne.- KNIGHTS—John M'Geill, R. Jenkin, J. Robison, J. Whalley, J. Hill, G. Stanton, J. Crott e " F. Hopkins, J. Meyrick. BARON—Henry De VismeS. DEAN— Windsor. REv. Doc TORS Dibdin, Binning, Knox, Bloomfie lci a" • MESSIEURS—James A. Sadler, Charles Lane , M‘Neiti, W. Fisher, Mr. Hine. Ward/ R EVEREN D MESSIEURS—X. Wynyard, J. G. - Lord W. Russell. Rose DOCTORS—TayIor Gordon, William' Pollock, J. Cormack. High Sheriff of Kildare. MESSIEURS—Edw.. rd Buller, M. P., Murchison, E A dsc lb a e r : i t Foley, M.P., Brand, N:rilliam Honywood, Hogg, egto p, William Wood, Gr fEth lit chards, Q. C.; J. Gird. o, Q C., Henry Tufuell, Lawreruce, R H. H a ywood William Goodenough Hayter, .M. P. David Saloroo.o William Woodgate, Pulman, J. Burke, W. ,r, J. Blewitt, M.P., E. Marjoribanks, Speirs, M.P. , iO , Paget, Mackenzie, F. Walpole, H. Grat:ao, Tertognv.be% Long, Buck, W. A. Robinson, Egerton, T. 5g Jones, W. B. Bayley, H. A. Cowper, Knox, t amp C. Stewart, Wallace, C. M. St. George, Farquiralir, Ce Rose, Longdon, F. French, G. Carmichael, Sanforoe Philip„ E. Ellice, A. Ellice, P. Stewart, Travers , Heneage, G. P. Bushe, Biddulph, J. Parker, F. C B l.V ar . Murray, Digby, R. Palmer, W. L. Melville, G. H• ti non, E. Harcourt, V. Smith, 11. Pierrepont, Knighnl: M. Tupper, Buxton, H. Georges, Edmonstone, ing, Ferguson, M. P., W. Hasell, Nussey, A. Stilt'" Cooper, Ellice, Halswell, T. Patterson, G. Mitchel l i d , Richards, T. Joslin, G. Rowe, J. C. Harper, W. it u J G ENERA LS lion. Sir Charles Colville, Sir Etl,„jo, Bowater, Sir Henry Bethune, Hon. Sir H. Pa ket ni Shrapnel, S. Rebow, C. Macleod, Sir J. :Mcleod, Goldie, Trevor, Sir W. Houston, Sir L. XimCnee• i vott GENERALS—Sir T. Bredford, Briggs, Stanhope, g Sir F. Adam, Sir F. Wetherell, Sir E. Stannas. ,sir COLONELS—O'ReiIIy, Pringle Taylor, Wenayss, -%1 0 5, Seymour, Crosse, Baimbrigge, Mackintosh, D.C.; Lambert, Tinling, Robinson, North, Badcock , Shaw, Gurwood, Warre, Wells, Richardson, H. Ben ts. Yorke, Sir H. Townshend. MAJORS.—Waymouth, J. Limond, Procter, Robb,C. L. y ß re oile ,c a a u d , aßgoasne; J. armtlaecylyet T. L. Mitchell. wbata CAPTAINS—W. Daniel Tyssen, P. DC Laney, - n o man, Williams, Bunbury, Liston, Pitt, G. MonYPe-S. M. P., Lowndes, Chambers, Spencer, Liddell, Vernon , 0, Berkeley, W. H. Halford, W. P. Milner. Chr istie, Vyse, C. Begot, Hamilton, Sir T. M. Wilson. a ., a A. LIEUTENANTS —Jenkinson, Hammond, J. H. V: ePr„' F. Macpherson, J. Phillott, J. Freese, S. Buller, Hc-',„*" . Grimston, M'Donald, R. Fergusson, Goldie, 1 17 . Ward, D'Aquilar, I'akenham, Calland, J. Vernon , Evans, Tabor, Semler, Hon. C. R. West, H. Irvine'co, W. Smith, G. Cooper, G. F. Stuart, Wilder, J. Till Burdett. COHNET—.aI. ENSIGNS—I P ion k . Hamilton Duncan, W. H. Seril °ll4 Longdon ; C. W. Tupper, Lacy, J. Futon. et . J. ADMlRALS—.Wollaston, Gosselin, Sir H. Digby, rra g, Rowley, Sykes. Sir C. Bullen, Sir W. Parker , Fla Eiir C. Adam, Sir E. Hamilton. lt CAPTAINS—T. NichoLg, Girth, Hon. Georg , . ag e, Chappell, Chads, Thornbot: Freemantle, Eden ; A. Crozier, Li; ice, Newcombe , D ell o, 010 J. Jones, S. Vassal!, Festing,, H. Stewart, ugh, Sir T. Troubro Manners, Farr, J. Parker. t, ' COMMANDEES—Butterfiold, A. L. Alorx.tgn riler ' Buckle, C. Newton. • I. S' LIEUTENANTS—Sir Frederick Nicholson, Batts Elltnan. in ted The following Noblemen and Gentlemen Pre fi- Addresses to her Majesty : corIT O The Earl of Charleville—An Address from the ration of Dublin, imploring her Majesty to „scind a nt o f appointment of Lord Ebrington as Lord Lieutellankc., Ireland ; also an Address from the Master, Warden' ie stf of the Corporation of Smiih Dublin, praying h er vha bor' not to give her Royal assent to the Irish Mu nicipal poration Bill. e Te rti Sir William Somerville—An Address from .Z r .i tyl of Drogheda, expressive of confidence in ho=" " t z e es pre . Ministers, and imploring her Majesty to contiowo 7.- - sent system of Government i n I re l an d. d Earl of Aberdeen—An Add ress f ro m the „ C O 7l 0 Fife, praying her Majesty t o cont i nue the proteedv agricu. Mr. lture Henry Grattan—Two Addresses from Ca van 1104 Longford, in favour of her Mest 's Ministers. Mr. Joseph Paget—An Address from Lou Irr g hborntt e , expressive of high satisfaction in the Government ° bo r re land h by the Marquis of Normanby, and an earn ag ed is i that the same principles may be maintained unimPa'r the future administration of affairs in that country.,„ers Mr. William Phillips—An Adress from the in and Occupiers of Land in the Divi s i o n of Christchurfi the Cou n ty of Monmouth, expressive of loyalty 8 " the tachment to h er Majesty, and determinatio n to de 8" institutions o f t h e country against all turbulent and lutionary aggressions. Flo &loon ? ' 1 . e Lord Se r a ve—An Address from the s ent Weavers of the County of Gloucester ; and to 1: w ith Messrs. Joslin, Haien, Rowe, Richards, and HarPe'.'„ s tv'i an Address from Cheltenham, and M edal on her MO" Coronation. were presell-• The following Noblemen and Gentlemen ted to the Queen : s _ by the Earl Bruce, on being called to t he House of Peer, f Marquis of Lansdown by e. he t: 4111° I Lord Farnham, en coming to h is title, Bandon. Lord Edward Howard, by the Earl of Surrey. te_l - 4 .;.~ r ..