The Sun. — London, England, 1845-04-01 00:00:00

_ - doubt the utility of his propositions. Now - onat he would propose was that instead of ten a 2 . ..0. of the line there I should be twenty—not moored_ up in Portsmouth or Ply mouth, where there w"..5 a liability of all their services becoming useless ; :Jut In the Cove of Cork. His reason for this pt74o.ltion was this, that in the Cove of Cork they would have a full command of the Chan nel and all its bays.—(Hear.) In two months or six weeks perhaps they would obtain a set of naval officers of experience in their profession, and of high character. But he believed that it was a very bad effect which was wrought upon naval officers by serving in small ships, and he felt assured that no education was equal to that which was obtained by services in small -vessels. There were several series of services in the respective ranks to which he was happy to bear testimony, but to the terms of which he was not quite ready to assent. The Hon. and Gallant Admiral the Commander in-Chief had been said to hare been sixty-eight years in the service. Sir G. COCKBURN—That is wrong. Captain ROUS—He believed, at any rata, that the Gallant Admiral had entered the service in 1777, and that would show the term of service which he had stated. He thought it much better to have twenty sail of the line effective in their department than ten sail of the line lazy and useless. Admiral BOWLES said that he thought these ob serv,'ations were superfluous and uncalled-for. Captain PECHELL said that he had not the slightest desire to confute the representations of the Hen. and Gallant Admiral, but he did think that something was due to the country, in order to assure them of the qua lities of the ships in the navy, and of the means by which it was to be assured of the nature of the defences -on which the country depended. He was the list man in the world to disparage the efficiency of the navy. He was not one to cry up the Russians, or to allow the representations of Admiral Darini, of the French navy, but he did believe that some alteration was necessary, in order to render the navy effec tive in itself and satisfactory to the country. He would therefore support the Gallant Officer in all that could be done to promote so desirable an object; but he, at the same time, hoped that he would give those vessels a fair and proper trial. lie (Capt. Pechell) did not blame him for turning frigates of large con struction into steam-vessels. He thought the experi went was right, although he thought that such altera tions were not in accordance with the strictest rules of ship-building—sawing ships in the middle and putting engines into them, leaving the fore parts, the bad parts of the vessel still standing. But still it was a different thing to do that only once and to do it always; and he did hope that when the Gallant Admiral gave orders to construct other steam-vessels, he would place the pro pelling screw in them, at the same time ad a pti ng th em for that purpose. It was more than two years since he had drawn the attention of the late Secretary to the Ad miralty (Mr. Sidney Herbert) to this subject, but it was only very lately that he heard of the s) stems being so far adopted that the screw was placed in the Rattler. He had recommended some time before that the pro pelling screw should be placed in the royal yacht, but that recommendation was not acceded to. He yet found by the public press that a vessel to be attached to the royal yacht was to be acted on in that manner. At the present time it was absurd to talk of steam frigates being used as vessels of war, when half of teo-e vessels were required for the machinery and similar pur poses. He did hope that the construction of these ves sels would be on a different principle, and he thought that the secretary of the Propelling Company would re ceive the reward which his merit deserved from a grate ful country. They had been indebted to Captain Symonds for great improvements in their naval architec ture ; for though he had not had the advantage of being a ship-carpenter by trade, he was a thorough seaman, and had opportunities of testing, and abilities to judge, the merits of the ship. Thus he could remedy the errors by supplying what was required by her. They were also indebted to Mr. Whyte for certain improvements, end he thought it was but right and fair, that they should encourage competition. It was one of his quar rels with the late Admiralty that they did not encourage Mr. Whyte. He had no hesitation, however, in saying that their navy had arrived at such a state of perfection that they might fairly set at defiance the naval power of the world. He had not been in the House when the Secretary of the Admiralty opened his budget, and he rather thought that the Hon. Gentlem to had taken the House by surprise on this occasion ; but, before he acceded to this increase in the navy estimates, he should wish to hear a few particulars as to the expenditure of this public money. At this moment they were told that a Committee was on foot in London, to endeavour to sate rtain in what manner the treaties of 1831 and 1833 hail been carried out. They were told that a large sum of money went to support a fleet on the coast of Africa, which might, on to morrow, be withdrawn. It was rather an unusual circumstance that treaties obtained at so much labour, and so much cost, might yet be, with seareely any notice, converted into so much waste paper. They were told that the Ministry of this country might find some other mode of doing away with the slave trade, otherwise than by retaining cruisers at the mouths of the rivers where slaves were embarked, and in those other places where they were landed. But it was curious to him to find in every part of Europe parties flattering themselves that they c auld by any other means than by cruisers do away with this nefarious traffic. No complaint had, he be. lieved, been made that they were not sufficient for this parpcee. As for the question which had been raised in the French Chambers, and entertained by the Minister of this coantry, he (Captain Pechell) should be ashamed to sit in his place as a naval officer in that llouse, if he did not state his opinion on the subject. The circum stance of a French Minister comin g into this country— ' into Downing-street—seemed to him the same as if a thief were deputed from the " swell mob" to sit in Scotland-yard with Colonel Rowan, for the purpose of getting rid of the police officers. No doubt this commis sion and the Noble Duke, on the part of France, who was a party himself to the treaty of 1833, would be glad to get rid of this section of the British navy. Before the year 1835, they had not been enabled, to any great extent, to put down the traffic in slaves on the coast of Africa ; for before that time the efforts of the officers and men on that station had been completely paralised. Since that year, however, he found that the British cruisers had been eminently successful, and if they took the two last years, they wou!d find there had been cap tured eight vessels bearing the flag of the United States, the Brazilian seventeen, the Portuguese sixteen, the Spanish sixteen, the Monte Vilean five, and an other ship sailing under no flag, making altogether sixty-three slave traders taken in two years, only nine of -sthich, however, had a cargo of slaves on board, and therefore ho thought that the British cruisers had shown themselves peculiarly efficient. Had it not been for those treaties, those vessels would not have been taken. In conclusion, he hoped that the naval officers employed on that coast, subjected to the pestiferous influences of that climate, would be found deserving the support of their country, so that when they returned with shat tered frames and destroyed constitutions, the Board of Admiralty would give them that promotion to which they were so justly entitled, and which they preferred before any pecuniary reward which it was in the power of that House to bestow upon them. Captain CARNEGIE would only occupy the House by making one remark in reference to the strictures pass* d by the Gallant Commodore on the construction of their steam ships. He (Capt. Carnegie) would only say that he would deem it the highest honour to be placed an command of one of them.—(Hear, hear.) He thought 'the Board of Admiralty, by their exertions for the improvement of naval architecture, deserved the support of the House, and the thanks of the country. Mr. HUME admitted that observations made in that jiouse on the state of the navy frequently produced good, - and he, therefore, did not object to discussions of that nature, but he must remind the Committee that they were altogether running away from the question before them.—(Hear, and a. laugh.) The question before them was, what was the number of men to be employed in the navy and what was to be the expense. He was one of those who always advocated economy, but he never did so at the expense of the interest or the character of the nation. He could not however suffer that vote to pass without opposition. At the same time he was sorry the Right Hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Treasury, was not present, because the Right Hon. Baronet, when he :brought for ward his budget the other even ing, said he would reserve any observations upon the proposed increase of the nary until the navy estimates should come before the House. He . had therefore expected that the Right Hon. Baronet would have stated the reasons for augmenting or con tinuing the present number of men employed in the navy. The present taxation of the cou ntr y exceeded -58,000,000/., and it was a matter of regret to him that so few Hon. Members were present, when a large pro portion of that sum was to be voted away. They were going to mak e an i ncrease in the navy es ti m ates, and he wanted to know, from any lion. Member of the Ca binet, whether they could state any reason why the naval force of the country should be so much augmented over what it was in former years. For every previous augmentation, they had had a good and suffi cient reason assigned, and he could not understand how - it was that none was given now. The situation of this country was much better now than it was ten years back, and he therefore considered Parliament had a right to ask the Government to give some good reason for this proposed augmentation. The Committee must not forget that they might do harm by maintaining too great a force as well as by keeping too little, because it not un frequently happened that an increase in either our army or navy excited the suspicions of foreign powers, and in duced them to augment their forces. In 1836 the num ber of men employed in the British navy was 115,100, I bet in the present year it was proposed to increase it t o 149.100, making a difference as large as 34,000, being equal in comparison to the total force employed in the 1792. It did appear to him then that they ought to have some explanation from the Government, as to the grounds upon which this augmentation was to take place. The expense of the army, navy, and ord nance in 1835 was 11,000,0001.—that was 6,000,000/. for the army, 4,900,000 L for the navy, and 1,000,000!. fur the ordnance, making a total of upwards of 11,000,0001., but now the Government proposed to add 4,000,0001. to the expenses. Unless, therefore, some satisfactory reason were given by the Government, to justify it, he did not think it was the duty of the Com mittee - to agree to the vote.—(Elear, hear.) The amount was one-fourth more now that it was in 1334 or 1836, and in the absence of any explanation, he must snore as an amendment that the sum be 36,0001. instead of 40.0001—(Heer, hear.) Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT wished to say a few words with regard to the question before the Committee ; and, at the same time, he would take the opportunity of re plj i9gr te the Hon. Memb e r w h o h a d j ust resume d hi s ' ( kw . :The Hon. Member had said that no explanation for any increase in the navy estimates. with the Ron. Member. He begged of this ststement, to remind the Coln ,en hie Right Hon. Friend the First T rea sury proposed the contingence _1 S of the income-tax, he did so upon three distinct grounds. The first was the impos sibility of any reduction in the army—the second the necessity for an increase in the navy—and the third the necessity for making great financial experiments. It was upon these distinct grounds that the Right Hon. Baronet brought forward the continuance of the income tax ; and he believed that, at the time, the explanation gave general satisfaction. But the lion. Member must not forget that it was a matter of importance that the country should be protected by good and seaworthy ves sels, whose capabilities could not be ascertained without some practical experience. To acquire this experience, it was necessary that an experimental squadron should be established, and this conid not be done without in curring great expense. It was only by experimental squadrons they could test the capabilities of a ship or a steamer, and the Honourable Member had heard that the Government intended to resort to this expen sive source of gaining maritime information. But what was the state of our commercial relations? Why, it had been stated that in 1841 there had been a positive in crease of 35,000 men for commercial purposes. On the coast of Africa an increase had been made in the naval force, with the view to the protection of commerce, and the suppression of the slave-trade. In China there had been an increase of 100,000, and five vessels, for the pur pose of maintaining order in the merchant service, and the protection of the British commerce in that quarter of the globe. It was to he rem-mhered that piracies in those seas were not eceasional and unexpected, or occur ring at distant intervals, but were systematically carried on by the military chiefs upon the coast of Borneo and the adjacent Islands, as a part of their state policy. The lion. Member, therefore, could hardly object to any ad ditional increase being made in our ravel force, for the advancement or protection of the commercial interests of this country in that quarter of the globe. The commerce of the country was daily extending, and it must entail upon the public a corresponding extension of the expenditure. The Hon. Menilpr had further asked whether in this time of profound peace the Go vernment proposed to build line-of battle ships and in crease the dockyards, because other countries were use lessly incurring similar expenses ? Now, he (Mr. S. Herbert) thought that nothing could be more impolitic than to go on continually chaneeng our own establish ments in accordance with the changes adopted by other countries.—(Hear, hear.) However, he would say, look to the different position of this country and of the others referred to. Those countries had not the same amount of colonies that we had, and they would con centrate all their naval force within their own parts. — (Hear, hear.) But the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) said he agreed with the Galls.nt Officer opposite that there was no occasion to build more ships at present, but that they should wait until war came, when, if they had need, they could build fifty ships in one year. The Hon. Gentleman had also said that they could man 120 new ships in a year. An lloN. MEMBER-It has been done. Mr. S. HERBERT—But they should remember that an enemy would not put off hostilities until this country was prepared with its full naval force.—(Hear, hear.) And the House should look to what was the state of facts at the present moment. The Government could not at present, upon an emergency, immediately obtain an additional stack of timber, sufficient to build five ships in one year.—(Hear, hear.) Sir C. NAPIER—Oh, it would come in. —(Hear.) Mr. S. HERBERT—But while we waited for the timber to build, our coasts might be blookaded.— (Cheers.) Formerly, when we were in an unprepared :tate, it cost the country a vast deal to build vessels in a hurry, which were of little or no use. W e were obliged to build ships upon the spurt of the moment. , & „ e given t. pport It o - „ /- r- - Ag'' .-r ri THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 1, 1845. In the first place, the Government was swindled by the contractors to a great extent ; and beside that, the ships when built were worth nothing, or next to nothin g , He thought, therefore, on all considerations, that it would be impolitic to put off preparation to the last mo ment ; and, for his part, he would be sorry to see the Government left to have recourse to the commercial dock-yards upon an emergency.—(Hear.) At the same time he must say that, although he saw other countries at this moment going to a great, and as he thought w 'stern]. expense tor the enlargement of their dockyards, he should be very sorry to see this country following the example.—(Hear, hear.) Yet, looking to the actual state of the navy—seeing that, although we had a large number of ships. many of them were of great age. Sir C. NAPIER—WeII, break them up.—(Hear, and a laugh.) Mr. S HERBERT—Many of them must before long come to be broken up. It was necessary to increase, at Portsmouth and Plymouth, the means of repairing and building ship. of war, and to extend the means also at Pembroke.—(Hear. hear.) He had had opportunities of comparing the works going on at those ports with those of another country, which had been referred to ; and he could say that they would not cost one-third of the expense.—(Hear.) Although the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) seemed to ferget the explanation given on the subject of these estimates by his Right Hon. Friend the First Lord of the Treasury, the country seemed not to forget, but to be satisfied is ith that explanation. The increase of the expenditure was required for extended operations to suppress the slave trade, and to afford in creased protection to our continually increasing commerce. Mr. HUME wished to state that he had not heard any explanation from the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, on the contrary, he had been in expec tation of the explanation uc to the present moment.— (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The Right lIOn. Baronet had made a statement when he brought forward the sub ject of the income-tax that we ought always to be pre pared for war. But this was the sort of excuse for keep ing up a war establishment to which he had always ob. jetted. But the preparations now proposed looked as it we expected soon another Waterloo, or as if a hundred hostile pennants were flying in the; Channel. With re spect to the suppression of the slave trade, the attempt to effect that by means of a naval force upon the coast of Africa had completely failed. Infect, accord ing to the opinion of the late Sir F. Buxton, the employment of a naval force for that purpose had done more harm than good—had actually aggravated the evil. (Hear.) lie (Mr. H.) had always endeavoured to show the country the uselessness of this waste of money, and to tell the public that if they wished to have a war establishment, they must expect to pay for it.—(Hear.) Lord INGESTRIE regretted that the statement of his llonourable Friend the Secretary at War had not been satisfactory to the Honourable Gen tleman (Mr. Hume), for to him it had been perfectly satisfactory.—(Hear, hear.) He had not been present when his Hon. Friend the Secretary to the Admiralty brought forward the first vote, but he was sure that the statement of his Hon. Friend would be looked upon with great satisfaction by the whole of the naval service.—(Hear.) II believed that the navy was, in every department, in a more efficient state than when gentlemen opposite were in office. (Conservative cheers.) The " trial experiments " instituted by the present Admiralty had been conducted with perfect Ifairness, and promised to lead to important improve. ments in the science of ship-building. He gretuly re gretted that the schools of naval architecture, recom mended in 1806, had not been upheld—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Hume)—and he thought that the gentlemen who were engaged to superintend those schools had b een hardly dealt with. He hoped that justice would yet be done to those gentlemen, amongst whom he would par ticularly. but not individually, mention Mr. Clewin, Mr. Lloyd, Mr. Morgan, and oth'brs (whose names we did not catch). At the same time, he complained of the favour which had been shown to Captain Symonds, whose system he regretted to designate as most rotten and fallacious. Hitherto we had been groping in the dark, in naval architecture ; and the consequence was that, in the beginning of the last American war, we suffered much in reputation, and would have suffered more, if it hail not been for the gallantry of our sailors.—(Hear.) The fact at this moment, was, that all our best ships were built upon the model of those that had been taken from the enemy.—(Hear.) He believed that the system of building ships that had been adopted was most falla cious. Ha considered that the surveyors of the navy had acted upon the most erroneous principles, and that the worst results had attended their exertions. Mr. W. WILLIAMS objected to the vote. He be lieved that the grossest practices had taken place, and he thought he should be able to prove that, if they would only grant him a Commmittee.—(llear.) He entirely objected to the vote for the increase of the estimates of this year over the year 1835. The esti mates of that year were 4,200,0001, those of the present year amounted to 6,900,0001. For keeping ten sail of the line the expenditure was 200,0001. more than in 1841, when there were 26 sail of the line at sea. These were circumstances which required explanation. The Right Hon. Gentleman said that they were obliged to suppress piracy ; surely piracy had been carried on formerly as well as at present. lie (SirJ.Graham) also ailuded to their three establishments in China, where the expenditure could not b 3 very large. The increase of the navy was attended with an increase in the estimates of the ord nance. In 1835 the expenditure in the navy, army, and ordnance department was 900,0001. less than the vote of this year. He (Mr. Williams) sh i o nG ul ot d hvee li r k en e smtiem to natt k et ti vs o hi w yn theysfrom s h o o H u ie ld A require rember such ch h earn iMajesty'snrease these three 3 establishments w hlis a h s me m n o ts re com t p h a a r n ed th w e ith wh th o o le se ofof the year 18.5 . the expenditureonlyplacoef t t h h e ey a rm h a y said dto f navy ea r_ o t f the e ir onlyUn i t e d d i i S ii t e a u t i e t s, y was in that point. There was not one year sin the t the r vi e e e a s c . e , whenpeg s t u h c e h y l e a a r rs e s l u B p 4 p l lie a s a w d er t e B4 v 2 o y e w d h f e o a r there was not only a war in China, but a large fleet in the Mediterranean, and when there was an actual war on the coast of Syria, when the fortress of Acre was taken--in each of these ears the expenditure was 340,0001, l ess than in the present year. After alluding to the immense.increase in the expenditure in the service in this year over the year 1818, so soon after the peace, the lion. Gentleman esti I he could not help calling it ex cessively extravagant. Sir C. NAPIER observed that he did not think that the Gallant acted that re h e s Officer ent fairly (s.tr o BoardrC. justlyN of on thaepi Napier) towards r opposite aide (Sir G. Cock burn) fur r eaet h ed.r o ldm w i a tso s ch n tih o ee t aware r to the p imputedAdmiraltyhthim al h s t e h r a v t arn er e s last. The Gallant Admiral made use of ob which wen© qu it e unca ll e d f or ; he i ntimated were twenty naval officers in the command of steam boats who eould su pp or t hi s statements. They oughtt have sent for these otlicers and brought them before the Admiralty for examination. He did not think it fair for the Gallant Officer to say that he (Sir C. Napier) was damning everybody but himself. He however did not say a single word about the ships which he (Sir Charles Napier) said were in the docks. The Gallant Admiral said that he did not pull those vessels to pieces; but he (Sir C. Napier) wanted to prevent them from bein g pulled to pieces in future. If one Admiralty allows it now, why not another do so in future? When a Minis ter came into power, he generally selected those who were in Parliament hunting for place, and who may be the greatest blockheads in the world, to conduct the affairs of the navy, instead of those who were well versed in those matters, but this was the nature of things. —(Hear, hear.) He (Sir Charles Napier) himself might be in office, but they could find many better men than he was. Were they to think that gen tlemen of the House of Commons, who came there to make a House, to keep a House, and cheer the Ministers, were the only persons to conduct naval matters ? He only found fault with the construction of the 90-gun ships and all the small ships, the 44-gun ships and the 50-gun ships, which were good fur nothing ; and the sloops of war the Gallant Admiral knew, as well as he did, were good for nothing. He was not opposing those small ships which were of such use on former occasions. When they came to blockade coasts and keep ships during winter, they found those small ships work well. He could not allow the Gallant Admiral to persuade the House that the Penelope, that porpoise, was a good steamer, for it was well known by the Captain that there was not an officer in her that had a dry jacket. The Penelope, with steam, in a calm, would do very well, otherwise she had only 4 feet 11} inches out of the water, instead of six feet. There was not an officer that did not knew it. She was the most splendid man-of-war in the world when she had no coals in.—(Laughter.) Well, then, if she was the finest vessel in the world, why not make Penelopes of all the men-of-war?--(Laughter.) That was another fact to which lie would wish to call the attention of the Gallant Admiral opposite. And now he came to the case of the Terrible, and he would tell the Gallant Admiral that lie was deceived about that vessel ; she never was intended to carry guns astern at all, for she could not carry them.—(Hear, hear.) It was true that many improvements had been made in her; but the best thing the Admiralty could do in her regard would be to correct in the vessels now in progress of building the errors made in the Terrible.— (Hear, hear.) One of her defects was that her ports were only 4 feet l 1 inches out of the water, and the consequence was, her engines sunk her much too low. Then, with regard to the Penelope, of which he had been speaking—why, in fact, half the power of the engines of that vessel was lost owing to her defective construction.—(hear, hear.) Another matter he had to mention was one which was really provoking to a degree to think of—(Hear, hear)—and there were a great many Hon. and Gallant Members present, at both sides of the House, whose concurrence in his views on those points delighted him, and they had come forward to bear him out in a manner that did him credit.— (Hear.) The House had already heard, from the Mediter ranean, that there was a feeling in favour of the Queen. Now he had not the reports with him in reference to this ship ; but he had read it to the House before, and a most amusing report it was—(A laugh)—for the answer to every question in the report was—" Not tried."—(A laugh.) One question was—" How did she ride at anchor?" and the answer was—" Not tried." Of course she had not, for she had been moored at Malta harbour all the time.—(A laugh.) Then, there was the Coiling wood. In respect to that vessel, all he would say was, that if her construction had not gone too far, he would strongly recommend that she should be built upon the plan of the Vanguard, which was admitted to be a well constructed ship.—(Hear, hear.) He understood that such a mistake had been made, in regard to the Tremen dous, that she was now about to be cut down, without the least comounction.—(Laughter.) Under these cir cumstances, lie felt bound to bring forward this subject before the House, and not lose the opportunity of doing so, however much he might regret the cause that com pelled him to do so. Sir G. COCKBURN hoped he had said nothing that the Hon. and Gallant Officer could find fault with in regard to himself personally. With regard to the state ments he (Sir G. Cockburn) had made, all he could say was, that he hal given his authorities far those state ments, and the Gallant Officer had contradicted them; but he (Sir G. Cockburn) could not see what good could result from asserting and contradicting in that way. Mr. HUME did not intend to oppose the present pro position, though he did consider it a large one; but he did hope that her Majesty's Government would not lose sight of the claims of meritorious officers in the contom plated promotions.—(Hear, hear.) He also hoped that acme system of regulation would be adopted in regard to those promotions, for it was the only country in Europe that had not some such regulation. He had received many letters from very deserving and merito rious officers who complained of being put aside, al though they wished to continue in the service, and young m n put in their place.—(Hear, hear.) On these grounds he did hope that something like a rule would be adopted in making promotions, and that it would no longer be said by the Government, as an excuse for un just promotions, that there were some younger members of the aristocracy for whom they should provide. Lord PALMERSTON said he had a few observations to make upon this question. The navy was at all times the most important branch of the service of this country, but it never was more peculiarly so than it was at the present period.—(Hear, hear.) Without adverting to events which had happened, or which might happen at no distant period, he did think that enough had transpired and taken place between this coun try and foreign countries to convince the British Government, that they should turn their most serious attention to the state of their naval defence, with a view to place it in the most efficient state possible. —(Hear, hear.) When first the present Government came into power, they flattered themselves, that by making certain concessions and acquiescencies to the wishes of ' certain foreign Powers, they would be able to sustain their friendly relations with them, as far as regarded their na val and military establishment; but he (Lord Palmerston) conceived they had gone too far in making these conces sions, and what was the result ? According to what had transpired within the last few months, in the decla rations of the King of the French and the Queen of England, it appeared that this country had, within a very short period, been on the verge of a serious rupture with France. Then, they had heard enough of the state of the United States of America to impress upon the Government of this country, the fact that it would be impossible to rate too highly the value and import ance of having their naval force in the most efficient state possible.—(Hear, hear.) Considering also that Ene land was possessed of colonies whose value was of such importance to them that their naval force could not be in a state too efficient to defend them.—(Hear, hear.) The first point, then, they had to consider was, as to the number of ships they had, the number they had in an efficient state, and their different qualifications.— (Hear.) He had heard the Gallant Officer near him speak upon this subject, and it evidently ap peared that he was much more capable of express , in" an opinion upon it than he (Lord P.) was. He thought the discussion of that evening had shown, if it luta been doubted before, that they were come to a pass, at which it was expedient that the Government ' should call in science to the aid of practice, with regard to the construction of ships, because it was all very well for the Right Hon. and Gallant Admiral to say, as he had that night, that in the last war we had ships that were regarded as of a clumsy and unsatisfactory de scription, but that with these ships our sailors had sailed after and overtaken the enemy, and defeated a superior force. But this was not a proof that our ships were good. It only proved that. our sailors were expert and skilful, and that with inferior ships they had triumphed over the enemy. The French ships that were taken, when they came into cur service, were admitted to be very superior to our own ships by which they had been overcome. This, therefore, only proved the superiority of our sailors over those opposed to them. It was well known to persons at all acquainted with the matter that no problem in scienc or mathematics was more diffi cult to solve than that respecting the constructi in of a ship destined for the purposes of a war. It was not very easy for the most skilful mathematician to tell what form a solid body should be in order to be best adapted to go rapidly through a fluid. It was not very e asy beforehand to say what would be the floating line of a ship not launched. It was not very easy to tell before hand what construction would give the greatest steadi ness to a ship. Mere practical men could not do this, and the man of science, in giving an opinion upon these points, must take into his consideration the principles of stowage, and in this, of course, he would require the as sistance of the practical seaman. They bad been told that the Admiralty were trying the experiment of em ploying two or three men—one man to build three ships, and another four, and so on. That was very praiseworthy, as far as it went, and it un doubtedly showed a great desire to improve and perfect the construction of ships of war. But, with all deference to the Admiralty, he did not held them altogether to be possessed of that scientific Knowledge which was a necessary element of this sub ject, and, therefore, they ought to call in the aid of scientific men, and also the experience of practical men. —(Hear, hear.) He thought this would involve a very trifling expense, while it would be the means of approach ing to certainty with respect to the principle of con structing ships. Undoubtedly, the class of ships which peculiarly required the attention of the Government was the steam-ships. It was quite evident that the construction of their ships required great improvement. The Right Hon. Baronet had said that we were placed on a satisfactory footing in this respect, as compared with other countries ; that our horse -power of steam, as compared with the horse-power of our nearest neigh bour, was in the ratio of three to two. He did not think that was altogether a satisfactory statement, as the Right Hon. Baronet had omitted to state. what was the proportion of the vessels, which was a material point of consideration. Now there was another branch of this subject which his Ilon.andGallant Friend had intended to bring under the consideration of the House, but whit he had purposely abstained from touching on that night, because the subject was too large to be treated inci dentally, and some more fitting occasion would present itself for bringing it forward. lie (Lord Palmerston) meant that part of the motion which referred to the defence of our dockyards and protection of our coasts. That was a most important subject, and he would net anticipate what his Hon. and Gallant Friend might sly upon it, but he believed that there was no subject which more urgently required the serious attention of the Go vernment and of that House. There was one other point connected with this subject which he could not re frain from saying a few words upon. He did not at all agree with lion. Gentlemen who found fault with the amount of the force, nor did he require any further ex lab] a e n y a h t iaodn madf r() m e. tit), e w G o o u tie d r , fr o w e n e t v e t r o , o j ff u e s r t i a fy fe th w e o r i d n s e r u e p a o s n e ths augmentation o Africa for th o ft h e e su fo p r p e r e e , ssion at the stationsthesle trade. Now, on the coast Now, he should most cheerfully concur in any reason able augmentation of force for so great an object, but he must own that there did appear to him a great and manifest inconsistency between the proposal which the Government now made, and the language which they held on the subject of the slave trade. lie might say without exaggeration, that the present Government had turned ont their predecessors on the question of the slave trade. It was the division on the great sugar debate, which had caused their aecession to office, and on that occasion they had said that to admit Brazilian sugar would be impious, as it would only have the effect of en couraging the slave trade. What had happened ? The very first thing thoy did after coming into power w— rist* a treaty for the suppression of the Aliv- ' r(i trade, and the next thing they did was to let the United States out of their engagement to co-operate for the suppression of that trade, and they were now about to cancel a treaty with France for the mutual right of search. Was he the only person who thought that the mutual right of search was essential to the suppres sion of the slave trade? The first authority to which he would refer was one at the time of 1814, at the con clusion of the war. The Noble Lord then read an ex tract from a dispatch from Lord Castlereagh to the Duke of Wellington in 1814, in which the necessity and im portance of prevailing upon France to establish a mutual right of search was set forth. So strongly at that time was the importance of this measure felt, that the Prince Regent, with the advice of his Minis ers. wrote a letter to the King of France, urging this point, and expressing in the strongest terms his anxiety that the French Government would agree to the proposal. the Duke of Wellington was instructed to make. The Duke of Wellington, on the 26th of August, 1814, made a proposal for a mutual right of search within the northern tropic, as far as longitude 25 from Greenwich, which was to the same extent as the treaties then existing with Spain and Portugal. Upei, that note a conference with the plenipotentiaries of France, Austria, and Russia, was held. That memorandum was transmitted to the respective Courts, but there was no answer to it till the conven Lion of Aix-la-Chapelle, in 1918. A number of ques tions had been sent to be answered, and they were of importance in this respect, that the answers to them showed that the slave trace was in those times accom panied with as many horrors and excesses as it was at the present moment, contrary to the opinions of some who thought that the measures adopted with regard to the slave-trade had increased its cruelty and harshness. On the 29th of September, 1822, the Duke of Welling ton wrote to Mr. Canning from Paris. In that memoran dum he stated, that the slave trade was carried on generally under the flag of France, for the obvious rea • son that France was the only one of the great m ar iti me Powers of Europe which had not entered into the trea ties concluded with his Britannic Majesty, and the other Fevers had too much respect for the flag of France to seize those vessels which sailed under it. The Duke o! Wellington went on to say, that endeavours had been made to introduce improvements with respect !o Spaie and the Netherlands, but no improvements could be carried into effect as long as a contraband trade was carried on under so respectable a flag as that of France The memorandum had been sent to the Congress or Verona in November 1822, but the Congress separated with a vague expression of their desire to see an ono put to the slave trade. Now he (Lord Palmerston) would say that no man of proper understanding cool» doubt, even if there was no authority to prove it, that it was absolutely impossible, unless there was a mutual right of search, to put an end to the slave trade— (Cheers)—and that the conduct of the Government, in having virtually given up the mutual right of search with France, was quite inconsistent with all their declarations. the consequence of which they now found to be the augmentation of their navy. He confessed the declare ; floes made by the Government with regard to the slave • trade were calculated to excite the most painful feelings in the minds of those who heard them. But perhaps it • might be said his alarms were unfounded, because 0 the - result that might be expected from the labours of the Commission, that Commission being composed of two distinguished men, who enjoyed the highest possible reputation. He could place no confidence in men placed in their position, for they could only come to one result If, indeed, they were asked to consult upon some means in addition to the right of search, for the suppres sion of the slave trade, he could place confidence in their labours, because they could say nothing more was to be done. But in Lord Aberdeen's dispatch it was said that the right of search treaty was suspended in the meantime, and once suspended by the mutual consent of the two Powers, it could not be revived again without their consent. And to make it more humiliating to this country it seemed that the pro position for its suspension was made a condition imposed by France upon England.—(Hear, hear.) It was in• deed painful to see two individuals of such distinguished character compelled to do work so little worthy. Of the reputation they had hither to maintained he could only say that if the Government pursued the course they seemed determined on pursuing, an enormous in crease of the slave trade must be the manifest result. Looking at the returns he saw that there was is marked increase in the number of slaves landed on the continent and islands of America since they had left office ; and, though it had been said that this was owing to the exertions of General Valdez, and some sudden changes in the Government of Brazil, and also that some assistance was afforded by the Governments of Cuba and Rio, yet, without denying that these causes operated in a slight d. give, he maintained it was owing much more to the measures which the late Government adopted, with respect to the Portuguese vessels, both north and south of the line, and the mea sures they adopted with regard to the baracoons on the coast of Africa, both of which caused the Brazil, Spanish and Portuguese capital to be withdrawn from the slave traffic. He did not wish to throw blame on any one ; but he believed the traffic had lately increased. He should be curious to see t he r eturns. If the Govern ment persisted in their plan of relinquishing the mu tual right of search, there must be an enormous increase of the estimates of the nave ; and, if they looked to what passed, it was curious to see how the Government, in dealing with foreign Powers, were led on from one step downwards to another.—(Hear, hear.) What passed eith respect to this particular commission ? M. Guizot, who had negotiated the treaty of the right of search in this country, was an ardent supporter of the treaty. He authorised his ambassador in London to sign it, but in six weeks afterwards he turned round and refused to rwify it, which, he must say, was a breach of national usage and of good faith.—(Hear, hear.) And this was done without any remonstrance ; but the French Chambers, encouraged by that, demanded of el. Guizot that he should ask to have the treaties of 1831 and 1833 cancelled. What was the reply of M Guizot ? He said, " How can you ask me to cancel existing treaties ? Why, what would be the conse quence ? I shall be met b y a d istinct refusal on t he part of the English C a bine t, and will y ou ask of me to submit my country to a direct refusal, which would b. an insult to her. That anewer was accepted by the French Chambers, but M. Guizot soon found that he was entirely mistaken in the men whom he had to deal with. Then there came other things ; there came the Ash burton capitulation and the dealings with Spain, which y— led M. Guizot to see that he w as dea lin g with p ersons who—to use a phrase of h i s Hon. Friend the Member for Finsbur " we re made of very squeezable materials." Guizet then said to the French Chambers, " - Well, I have been thinking these twelvemonths on this subject, and now I think that these negetiations may not be so hopeless as I thought they were last year, and that, by doing so, I will not expose my country to such a decided and peremptory refusal ;" and M. Guizot judged rightly of the men with whom he had to deal. The negotiations were entered upon, and M. Guizot had been successful. The Government of this country, out of compliance to a foreign Government, and to maintain as they thought one foreign Minister in power six months longer than he her might retain it, and to catch for him otar:.vi ise v otes on a narrow division, sacrificed all those pr i n ciples which this country, the nation, and Parliament had for years held as most sacred, and were goingto bring upon the innocent and unoffending in habitants of Africa an increase of those horrors which must necessarily accompany the slave-trade.—(Hear, hear.) He could only say if they pursued that course it would be difficult for men to determine, and he would leave it to them to choose whether they would be guilty either of most miserable weakness, or most hateful and detestable hypocrisy.—(Cheers.) Sir B. PEEL said that he would first address himself to what had fallen from the Hon. and Gallant Officer opposite. He.regretted that the Hon. and Gallant Offi • eta. had 'been prevented from making his motion in the manner he himself wished (Hear) but he had an opportunity of making his speech and he could not help thinking that the result would not be very different if he had made the motion in the manner he intended. The Noble Lord said that he con curred with the Gallant Officer in the opinion that science ought to be called in aid of practical experience in respect to naval improvements. He (Sir R. Peel) concurred in that sentiment; but the question was who should be the presiding authority when science was called in aid of practical experience. The Gallant Officer proposed a Committee, but he (Sir Robert Peel) must say that the Board of Admiralty was the proper tribunal to conduct an inquiry of that kind, and to decide upon its results. He could conceive no advantage in superseding the au thority of the Board of Admiralty, by making them su bordinate to the authority of the Coramission :ought to be established. lle apprehended that the Board of Ad• miralty took th e course w hi c h th e H on . an d G a ll ant Officer d rho e oppo3ite recommended the Commission composed r would clearly a t rust ln of naval officers to take. It did avail itself of the aseist !ulnooo,Neor men di s ti ngu i s h e d f or s cience and for p ract i ea l k pr l e r se t n hi t s ß C o o ar m d m o i r A ssio d n a a s l apm ty wpooui implied, and there could be no doubt but both Boards rwould come i n t o coll i s i on i n a manne r w hi c h wou ld b e fa from serviceable to the country. He did not object to the course which the Hon. and Gallant Officer had taken as to the propriety of calling in the aid of men of science. When they looked to the immense sums of money expend e d i n t h e b u ildi ng o f s hip s , h e must consi der it of th e utmost importance t h at any exper i ment for improving the construction of vesselseshould be fairly tested. Wh at h e contended for was, t h at as the Board Admiralty WaS responsible for the expenses of the navy, its authority ought to be enforced, and they should be entrusted with lie conduct of experiments. Why th e hoard had contemplated these experiments by calling for an additional number of seamen, for, otherwise, th ose experiments could no t be mu l e . If th e nav y was re d ed to the bare number of men consistent with the national safety these trials could not be made. M• s Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Admiralty expressed himself • entirely of the same opinion with the Gallant Officer opposit e i n tsis respect, and even invited the assistance of the Gallant Commodore, and offered to place at his disposal a steam-vessel, which his • great naval knowledge and experience would enable him to superintend.—(Bear, hear, and cheers.) Sir C. NAPIEB—I have been applying these twenty years for it. Sir R. PEEL —And the Gallant Officer has now, from a Board of Admiralty composed of hien tif adverse politics, obtained now 'h yi n at he rintless y sought for during twenty years.hear.) Could • n ' thing be a stronger proof ear' • the proper constitution of the present Board of Admiralty hear.) The Board was presided ore member of the r by , the most navaldistinguished member hear.) The Gallant Office r said that Board was formed from party considerations, an d 0 : Ad ministration he it there was a change of Ad e-might be a member of the Board of ee • Well he (Sir R. Peel) would think the ...owe a. ,judicious one. The Ron. and Gallant Officer might speak of his friends beside him, but surely a Board of which such man as Admiral Otago and the lion. and Gallant Officer near him (Mr. Corry) were members, could not well be censured for its party bias. With re spect to the defence of the dockyards, to which the Noble Lord had alluded—by whom were the dockyards neglected ?—(Hear, hear.) 'Was this Government chargeable with it ? Why it was the present Govern ment that originated a plan for their defence. There was no necessity for a Commission—they had had a Commission already—and the subject had already under gone the fullest consideration from the highest autho rides in the country. He could assure the Noble Lord I,hat the subject had not escaped the atten tion of the Government, and the result would be seen in the measures which they would propose in the course of the present session. —(Hear, hear, hear.) The censure of the Noble Lord on this head did not apply to the present Government. So much for the particular motion ; but the Noble Lord opposite had considered this a legitimate opportunity `'or making observations with respect to the foreign policy of the Government, and particularly regarding the right of search. He wished the Noble Lord would bring this matter to the test, and take the vote of the House of Commons on it. The Noble Lord recollected per fectly well the result of his motion relative to the Ashburton Treaty, or as he called it, Capita , lation," and did not like even to make a motion for the production of papers, the House had on that occa eion shown so little sympathy with the Noble Lord. L i The treaty made by Lord . Ashburton with the United States had teen entirely approved of by Parliament, and whose vote had declared it consistent with the honour and interests of England. The Noble Lord, he repeated, would never forget that unfortunate result of his attempt to depreciate the services of Lord Ashburton. The Noble Lord, fearful of encountering the opinion of the House by making a specific motion, had introduced the discussion on the navy estimates. The Noble Lord talked of concession, but at the same time admitted the propriety of conciliatory language. hut he (Sir R. Peel) felt convinced that the Noble Lord had no reason to complain of any undue concession, and the use of tem perate language would not make them less firm and de termined, though they were certainly anxious to pre serve the peace of Europe. If the Noble Lord ()lei& cted to the conduct of England with respect to the affairs of France and Morocco, and France and Otaheite, let him bring forward a spec.fic motion on the subject. He thought that the most had been made of those op • pertunities, and if concessions had been. made, they had been made with the especial object of preserving the good understanding that had hitherto existed be tween the two countries, and surely it would not be conceived, that the peace between two such countries as these should be risked or destroyee for the sake of the protectorship of two small islands in the Pacific, 8,000 or 10,000 miles from the particular sphere of the French Government ; and he did not think that the good un derstanding which had subsisted between this country and France should be destroyed on account of this difference occasioned by the island of Otaheite. With respect to the right of search, the Noble Lord appeared disturbed because the most eminent men, each of them known for his hostility to the slave trade, the Duke de Broglie and DI. Lushingten, had united together for the purpose of ascertaining khether or not it were possible to substitute some ottu r measure on the part of Engl aid and France for the suppression of the slave trade, that should be more efficacious than the right of search. No doubt it was to be lamented that a public feeling should have arisen in France which tended to paralyse the efforts made to carry out the right of search. If England and France cordially co-operated, it appeared to him that that mea sure was more efficacious than any, but its efficacy must greatly depend upon the cordiality with which it was carried on.—(Hear.) The treaties alluded to by the Noble Lord, in the case of countries not very willing to act upon treaties, were not very specific and particular. It is true that at a certain period there was a strong dis inclination, on the part of France, to exercise this right of search, and a strong opposition arose against it. But when had that opposition arisen, and who had been the cause of it ? It was after the events of the Syrian campaign in 1840, when the Noble L.ird was Minister for Foreign Affairs, that the opposition to the right of search arose. Nothing of it was heard in 1838 or 1839; and without entering into the question of who was to blame, it was certain that in 1840 there was an inter ruption to our amicable relations with France. It was no inherent opposition to the right of search which led first to the vote in the Chambers, then to the non-ratifi cation of the treaty, and then to the strong exhibition of feeling in France km. the substitution of some other mode of suppressing the slave trade. The Government were not to blame that they found that feeling prevailing when they succeeded the Noble Lord in the administra • tion of foreign affairs ; but if that feeling was in exist ence in France, it was the policy pursued in France and England which was the exclusive cause of the - opposi tion manifested in France to the right of search.— (Hear, hear.) If the Noble Lord thought the Govern ment were wrong in not resenting; the non-ratification of the treaty, there was a period in which he should have called the attention of the House to it. The Noble Lord, as he (Sir Robert Peel) understood, said that the right of search was now suspended. It was not so. Did the Noble Lord believe that these two eminent men, the Duke de Broglie and Dr. Lushington, would have assumed the functions they had consented to undertake if they were not animated by the sincerest desire to put an end to the slave trade. Dr. Lu.hington could not be charged with a desire to promote the political objects of the present Government ; he saw that the right of search had become ineffective, and he had only consented to accept these ditties in the earnest hope that it might be possible to devise something more effectual. lie (Sir Robert Peel) believed, in spite of what had been advanced by the Noble Lord. that the efferts that htel been made on the crust of Africa had been most be• neficial, and he trusted it was needless to say that the Government would not give their consent to the substi tution of any plan that should be less effectual for its object than the' right of :search.—(Hear, hear.) If some other plan should be found, then it was an agreement with France that the right of search should be sus pended, not abandoned, until it could be proved by ex perience whether or not the new experiment were effi cacious. If France would consent to keep a very large naval force upon the coast of Africa, cordially acting with us in the determination to make every effort for the suppression of the slave trade, and if no conside ration on the score of expense were suffered to interfere with this cordial union, he believed that that course might be more efficacious than the right of search as it now existed It was in the hope of devising some such means that the commission had been consti tuted. With respect to other matters touched upon by the Noble Lord. as the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Jobe Russell) had given notice of a motion upon the subject, tie (Sir R. Peel) thought it better to abstain from any reference to it, or matters connected with it, until the Noble Lord had had the opportunity of bringing for ward that notice. But when the Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston) said that, in making the agreement which had been negotiated by Lord Ashburton, that the Government had acted inconsistently with the honour, and had sacrificed the interests of this country, to that statement he (Sir Robert Peel) felt bound to give a prompt, a most distinct, and peremptory denial.— (Hear, hear.) He believed that no such sacrifice had been made. The Minister of the United States had been charged, as this Government had been charged, with sacrificing the interests of America ; and because he had made an agreement with this country for the interests of peace, he had been denounced by the war party with having consented to an arrange ment that was subversive of the honour of his country. And so it would ever be. If two great countries, animated by a sincere desire to preserve peace, attempted, in a spirit of mutual conciliation, to effect an adjustment by which immediate danger was removed, no doubt it would suit the views of party men in either country to denounce the Ministers by whose agency such an adjustment had been made; and if those Ministers were not supported in conciliatory endeavours, there was no security in any country against the risk of constant hostilities —(Hear, hear.) He did not believe that either that House or the country disapproved of the efforts that had been made to maintain peace.— (Hear, hear.) He did not believe that that House or the country would think that the power of the Govern ment to resist unjust demands, or to maintain the inte rests or honour of the country when the maintenance of them became necessary, had been in the slightest degree impaired, 'either by the holding of conciliatory language, by the direct avowal of a desire to preserve peace, or by having consented to compromise, Where-compromise was possible, and where mutual concession had put an end to immediate danger.,-(Hear, hear.) He did not believe that past moderation would incapacitate the Govern ment from acting with vigour, firmness, and determina tion, whenever it might become necessary to assert them. —(Cheers.) Lord J. RUSSELL was astonished at the tone assumed by the Right "Hon. Gentleman with respect to the obser vations of his Hon. Friend. He thought there was suffi cient reasons for making an inquiry respecting the in crease of the naval force upon the coast of Africa, when there was an increase of the navy estimates de manded.—(Hear.) There might be reasons for this in crease of the estimates, but there were also other reasons for the obser va tions o f his Hen. Friend ; and it was necessary for the satisfaction not only of the House, but also of the country, that these questions should be ex amined. There was certainly very great excitement respecting the suppression of the slave trade. His Noble Friend (Lord Palmerston) had stated that Lord Castle• reagh and the i)uke of Wellington had thought the right of search a point of the greatest importance. It had been written, signed, and ratified b y them ; and was the House now t o b e to ld that it should be abandoned and yet Government proposed, at the same time, that the estimates for the navy should be increased in order to suppress the slave tr a d e . W as i t not under such circum stances excusable in his Noble Friend to say, " We do not object to this vote, but is it not fair, at least, that we should know .the purpose for which this money is wanted —the object to which it is to be applied ere we grant it?" The Right Hon. Baronet, in reply, had taunted the Noble Lord with the course he had taken with respect to what was called th • Ashburton treaty. Ile did not think the Right Hon. Baronet h a d an y reason to p l ume himself on the r esu lt of that treaty.—(Hear, hear.) The proper merits of that question Noble L weino o t r T be lost sight of in the able s p eec h o f t h e Wan the treaty in effect? His N o bl e FriendWth n e y S' wechrnet tary of State for Foreign Affairs at that time had in formed the House that the American Government bad advanced certain claims, and they (the British Govern. ment) had made th e i r c l a i ms , w hi c h, nut b e i ng acceded to, • they gave the question up. The American Government said, if we accede to your propositions, shall you, in return, give us the navigation of' the river St. John's. Many persons might think that a great portion of the territory given up to the Arne ricane was scarcely to be considered either as a loss or gain ; but then they ought to consider the manner in which that territory was trans ferred ? Was it fair to the Madawaskwa villagers that they, if willing to abide under the protection of 4er Dritsuuio JAaJesty, should Pir trash:Ted to another country? The Americans had said, "We must have the whole of the right bank of - the St. John's. We cannot allow the British to cross the river." The demands of America arose as she found them readily ac ceded to, and they obtained possession of a further terri tory which we granted to their claims. It was certainly his (Lord John Russell's) opinion that in those treaties the interests of this country had not been sufficiently at tended to. This might be thought a partial opinion ; but it was one he had always maintained, for when in office, in concurrence with his Noble Friend, he had in structed Lord Sydenham as to the negotiations with America; and he had also, in conjunction with the Noble Lord, conveyed to Lord Sydenham their approbation for having broken off those negotiations. The Right Hon. Baronet had said that these were matters to keep up a hostile and vindictive . feeling, and that a better and more moderate tone would tend to the consolidation and preservation of peace. He .(Lord John Russell) hoped that no one could accuse him of being insensible to the blessings of peace, but he also thought that this was not exactly the best mode of procuring peace. The language which they might consider conci liatory other persons might call piisillanimoue and weak, and the consideration that the Government might have gained more if they had shown a somewhat in creased determination.—(Hear, hear.) lie at the same time gave the Government the fullest credit for never having consented to anything which they really con sidered injurious to the interest or derogatory to the honour of th, it eeuntrv. The Right Live. Baronet had asked his Nolie Friend to specify a case in which the Government had not rated the honour of England suf ficieetly high. He would mention one in which he thought the Government standard had been placed a great deal too low—he meant the case of Spain ; and he complained that in the transactions relative t that country they bad not ascribed their submi , sion to the power of France, but to a revolution of opinion in Spain itself. He would not. touch on the other mesriens as he intended to bring them forward on u future night. Dr. Lushington, as far as he was aware of his opinion, held thrit the right of searob was ore of the most effica cious means by which the errantry coulti pot down the slave trade, and he believed that the formation of thin Commission was solely ownig to an excitem•nt in France upon the - eubject, and that it was deemed expedient to give way to that excitement. I-I i did not contend that the leading men in France laid any great stress upon it.; but still this. he thought, led to its formation. He was of opinion that, on such a subject, it would have been better for the Government of this country to have at once, and directly, treated with the Government of France, , for he thought it too important to be left. to the decision of two Commissioners. The Right Hon. Baronet had admitted that were both Governments increasing the number of cruisers upon the African coast, that course would be more efficacious for putting down the slave trade than any other. With respect to the vote before the (louse, he was glad the Government had determined to inch ase the naval force of the country, and he therefore thought that sufficient reason had been shown for the Committee acceding to the vote. Theme was, however, another subj.- ct upon which he wished to make one or two remarks.—(Hear.) He alluded to the employment of steamers for naval purpeses. He did not desire to disturb the present power of the Beard of Admiralty, with regard to the employment of steamers in a general point of view ; but with regard to . their employ ment for carrying on a war, he thought it would be exceedingly . useful to have E commission con sisting of scientific persons to inquire into and report upon this branch of the subject. At the same time he wished it to be understood that he had no de-. sire to disturb the present functions of the Board of Ad miralty, but he thought a report of- a body of scientific gentlemen on the subject would assist, instead of embar rass, them. Upon those grounds he was inclined to support the vote. Captain PECHELL was sorry to interpose at that late hour, but it would be seen that he had given notice of an amendment to that vote, and he thought it would be his duty not to omit that opportunity of mentioning it. The case of a class of officers, who had a strong claim upon that House, had been entrusted to him, but, somehow or other, db , cussions of a political tendency had prevented him from bringing it forward. He might be told that he could bring it forward upon any other vote, but unless he could come to some understanding with the Gallant Officer opposite, he should feel it his im perative duty to proceed with it at once. He had, how ever, great faith in the humanity and integrity of the Gallant Officer; and he trusted the Gallant Officer would suggest - , some remedy for the evils of which the parties for whom he pleaded complained.—(Hear, hear.) Sir G. COCKBURN suggested that the Gallant Officer might move his amendment upon the vote relating to wages being-brought forward. And, upon the recommendation of Mr. Hum and Sir C. NAPIER, Captain PECHELL said he Would adopt the course recommended by the Gallant Admiral. • Sir CHARLES NAPIER took that opportunity of giving notice that upon the wages vote being proposed he would bring the condition of the masters before the Committee, and also the propriety of advancing seamen's wages.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HINDLEY was, on the whole, not opposed to the vote, but he protested against the principle which argued that it was necessary to augment the naval force of the country for preserving peace. The vote was then.agre,d to. The Chairman was ordered to report pr:gres. The Howe then resumed, and the Chairman reported accordiagiy, anl obtai..el leave to sit again. Customs Duties Act, hind the Pu'sdic MuFeunit Aitt, , a ere severally read a second time. The House then adjourned - at ten minute:: past Twelve o'Clock. The folowing is a list of the sleam-ships and frigates, with their cost and tonnage, referred to by sir Charles Napier in his admirable speech last night on the Nay) Estimates:— STEAM-SHIPS. Name. Guns. Horse-puwer. Tonnage. Cost. Gorgtui Driver Styx Vixen 8 Geyser Growler 8 Devastation Thunderbolt Cormorant 8 Spiteful VirAgo Eclair 8- !tattler Hydra . Vesuvius Stromboli D"e Phoenix Medea Black Eagle Flamer Plug) Firefly Rhadamanthus ... 4 Salamander He next came to the class of steam-packets which cost the country a sum of 58,752/. without the machinery. They were as follows: — Guns. Horse-power. Tonnage. Cost. Spitfire Blazer Tartarus Hermes Alecto Prometheus Lizard Ardent Megara 5 160,37 . . •717 Dasher Widgeon Merlin Medusa 0 Acheron Hecht Hecate Volcano Polyphemus Sydenham 3 . 232 Albert Wilberforce 0 Soudan 0 Bee The steam•frigates of which they had no returns of the expense were as follow: Firebrand . ' , 1,190 tons. Vulture . Eclair 1 059 Gladiator . Sampson Retribution . 1,641 Scour t:e . Terrib!e 1,840 Penelope - He n' xt came to the steam-ships that were building. They were:— F RIGATES. Guns. Horse-power. Tons. Dragon 8 Avenger .lO ..... .... 650 Centaur 8 Amphion Odin Vplean . 8 • SLOOPS. Sphynx Bulldog Fury Inflexible Harpy Torch Spitfire Trident Myrmidon Grappler STEAM-VESSELS ORDERED. Hound Niger 0 Dart... 3 0 .. Fury . ....... .... 6 Dauntless . Steam Frigate... 46 Encounter 8 Conflict Desperate. 2 Iron steam- frigates. 2 Iron steam-shops. SPORTING REMINISCENCE OF TAwEI.L.-A sme what singular fact occurred in 1827 ; Captain lions was in Sydney, New South Wales, and had a horse taken suddenly ill ; he went to the shop of Tawell to procure some medicine. Tawell's horse and chaise was standing at the door at the ihoment, and he volunteered to drive the Gallant Captaiu back to his stable, and administer the remedy. Captain Rous consented, jumped into the gig, the medicine was given 17 Ina% sad me horse recovered. COURT CIRCULAR. WINDson, MONDAY.—Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales, Prince Alfred, and the Princess Alice, were takee for a carriage drive this morning, accompanied by the Dow ager Lady Lyttelton. Their Royal Highnesses the Duchess of Cambridge, ea the Hereditary Grand Duke and Duchess of Mecklenburg Strelitz, attended by Mr. Edmond Mildtnay, left Kew yes' terday morning for Belvoit Castle, Leicestershire, to hones the Duke of Rutland with a visit. The royal party travelled by the London and Birmingham Railway. Her Royal Highness the Grand Duchess Stephanie Baden, attended by the Baroness de Strumfeder and Ber 4 4, Roth de Schreckenstein, visited the Tower of LondoOrester- • day morning. His Serene Highness Prince Edward of Saxe Weimar accompanied the Grand Duchess during her inspec tion of the different objects of interest within the ancient edifice. Her Royal Highness, attended by her suite, after wards went to view the Thames Tunnel, and then returped to the Duke of Hamilton's, in Portman-square. In the f& ternoon the Grand Duchess visited her daughter at her resi' dence in Connaught- place. The Chevalier Bunsen, Prussian Minister, paid his respects to the Grand Duchess Stephanie of Baden yesterday. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge attended this rehearsal of the Concert of Ancient Music, at the Hanover' square Rooms, yesterday morning. The Royal Duke visited her Royal Highness the Duchess of Gloucester, at Gloucester House. His Serene Highness Prince Ernest of Hesse PhilipPitab l arrived at Christie's Hotel, St. James's-street, yesterday, from a visit to the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, at Kew, A Cabinet Council was held yesterday afternoon .at th e Foreign-office. The Ministers present were—Sir R. Feet , the Duke of Wellington, Lord %Vharncliffe, the Duke of Bac' clench, Earl of Aberdeen, Lord Stanley, Sir Jatne,s . Grahan t : the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Earl of Haddington, Earl of Ripon Lord Granville Somerset, Earl of Lincoln, and th e Right Hon.i Sidney Herbert. Sir R. Peel arrived in town to attend the Council from Osborne House, Isle of Wight. Lord Wharnclitre arrived to the forenoon from Brighton. • The. Council sat two hours. • Lord Wharncliffe left town, on his return to Brighton, ha' mediately after the Council. A Deputation connected with the West India colonies , consisting of Messrs. Cavan, Cave; Barkly, and Colvile, had an interview with Lord Stanley yesterday, at the Colonial' office. His Excellency Sarem Effendi, Turkish Ambassador, trans' - acted business yesterday at the Foreign-office. '- The new Commission respecting the slave trade held.their first meeting yesterday, at the official residence of Sir Rober t Peel, in Downing-street. The Duke de Broglie and the nigh' Hon. Stephen Lushington, D.C.L., Judge of her MajestP High Court of Admiralty, attended. The Governor of the New Brunswick and Nova Scot a i Land Company, and a Deputation accompanied by th e Secretary, had an interview yesterday with Lord Stanley. Mr. John Wood, Chairman of the Excise, had an interyieri with the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday. ' Dispatches were received yesterday at the Colonial-offic e ' from the Governor of Gibraltar. I tispatches were sent au , , last evening from the Colonial-office, for the Governor 0 Van Dieman's Land. HER MAJESTY'S VISIT TO Tll ISLE OF WIGHT. COWES, MONDAY —The inhabitants here are i ll ecstacies at the prospect of her Majesty periodical ref' dente among them. Her Majesty was driven over her newly aegoirgd e: main in the royal poi y phaeton yeiiterdsy. The lei: spi ctor of Palacio% and royal architects are busily .e. 1 1 4" gaged in planning altPrations and improvements, .t.I I the upholsterer is also in attendance to receive , he r Di v jesty's commands as to the furniture. A messenger was dispatched this morning to Gos Po rts to order her Majesty's coachman to have the royal riage in readiness at the Royal Clarence Victualling Establishment by half-past three o'clock to- morrow, W convey her Majesty and their Royal Highnesses Princ e Albert and the Princess Royal and suite to the terminl of the Gosport Railway, whence the royal visitors return to Windsor or Buckingham Palike by a spe c [ '" train about four o'clock. Sir Robert Peel left for town this evening. SPORTING IN TELLIGEN OE • • TATTERSALL'S.—YEsTERD.AY. a r t The attendance included a considerable number of r oun d betters, but so small a proportion of backers, that 'alth ou many horses were touched upon, the investments in 0 1(1 . 3 „ cases were so insignificant, that we have some hesitation 11., making a quotation. As exceptions to this remark , we Mai mention Semiseria, Obscurity, Ratan, Celeste, Ould Irelands and Patriot for the Chester Cup, for which. too, Pug, Priddi of Kildare, and Yheomun-ac-Knuck were in some deman and Lord Exeter's lot, Pam, and Weatherbit for the D er„ ; Inquiries after Newsmonger, Mentor and Pantasa, but ; 1 0 business done. For the reasons stated above we giv e t following list, " errors excepted :"- NEWMARKET HANDICAP. 5 to I agst Lord G. Bentinck's Croton Oil 10 to 1 apt Mr. Drinkald's Vol-au-Vent—taken, 20 to 1 agst Mr. 11. Davis's Gorhambury—taken Offers to take 6 to 1 about Porto Bello, and 10 to 1 skuv Skeleton. TWO THOUSAND GUINEAS STAKES. . 5 to 2 agst Lord Stradbroke's Idas—taken and An ° P 3 to 1 agst Colonel .Anson's Kedger— taken 5 to 1 agst Colonel Peel's Cobweb colt 20 to 1 agst ldas winning this and the-Derby—take' THE CHESTER CUP. 8 to 1 agst the Irish lot—taken 10 to 1 agst Mr. Jaques's Semiseria—taken freely 11 to 1 agst Mr. W. Scott's Cataract=-no backers 12 to 1 agst Mr. A Johnstone's Obscurity—taken 13 to 1 agst Mr. I-I. 11. Johnstone's Thelra—tk 25 to 1 agst Mr. Bell's Winesour—taken 30 to 1 agst Mr. Stebbings's Celeste—taken 30 to 1 agst Lord G. Bentinek's Pug—take 35 to 1 33 to 1 agst. Sir. Cutht,ert's Queen of Tyne—taken 33 to 1 agst Mr. Isaac Day's Portrait—taken 33 to 1 agst Mr. Arnistrong's Ratan-35 to 1 tknr,i 33 to 1 agst Mr. Davies's Yheomun-ac-Knuck-t 35 to 1. agst Mr. Jr sin's Pride of Kildare—taken 40 to 1 agst Sir. Irwin's Ould Ireland—tAten 40 to 1 agst Mr. Meiklam's Trueboy—taken 40 to 1 agst Sir. Irwin's PAtriot—taken 40 to I agst Mr. Osbaldiston's Sorello—take 50 to 1 1000 to 15 ag,t Mr. Irwin's Faugh-a-Ballagh—takell 1000 to 15 agst Mr. Irwin's Polish=taken • • DERBY. 33 to 1 agst Lord Exeter's lot—taken 40 to 1 agst Sir G. lleathcote's lot—taken 40 to 1 agst Mr. Greviile's Alarm aft er 14 to 1 agst Lord Stradbroke's Idas—taken an, wards offered 15 to 1 agst Col. Anson's Kedger—taken and aft. tr. 18 to 1 agst Lord Chesterfield's Yam—t. and aft. on. 0 0. 18 to 1 agst Mr. Ferguson's Clear the Way—t- & O ft "s„ 22 to 1 agst Lord Chesterfield's Newsmoniger—take 30 to 1 agst Mr. Gully's Weatherbittaken 35 to 1 agst Mr. Gully's Old England—t. and aft- °y -35 to 1 agst Duke of Richmond's Laird o'CockPc taken and afterwards offered 40 to 1 agst Mr. Lintott's Cabin Boy—t. and aft. Z e d. 50 to 1 agst Mr. Ford' s F uz bos—taken and aft. of OAKS. 16 to 1 apt Lord Chesterfield' e Chesterfields Lady Wildair--te k i eri vii 0 Ersom SPRING R ACES .—A s man y p er sons are enu o re impression that these ra c e s w ill take place this week , vi t he requested to repeat that they are postponed until Eric's'', 25th instant. . 4 14 $ ATCAR COURSING MEETING.—The Se ft on Cup vi tr. bite by Mr. Parry's P unc h ; th e Molyneux Plate by Mt. 0° t he son's . Scotia ; the Croxteth Parse by Mr. Ball's Breeljele Atcar Stakes by Mr. Ball's Baron ; and the West Stakes by Mr. Ball's Burgundy. • COAL MitIZNZT. ,gajOt Prices per ton at th e c lose of the market :—Adao, 4 ,6 d ; 15s 6d ; Huddle's West Hartley, 16s; Carr's Hartley, ',lel ( Davison's West Hartley, 16s 6d; Holywell Blain, 1 7 , 8 ; f ield , Tanfield, 14s 6d ; Ord' s Redheugb, 14s 3d ; Old r i 31 ;100 14s 6d ; Townley, 155 ; Taylor's West Hartley, 16s ; ort h, Hartley, 16s 6d ; West Wylam, 15s 9d ; W.E., 16s 6d ; New Walker, 15s 6d; New March, 15s 6d ; 168 6d ; Belmont, 19s; Braddyll's Hetton, 20s ; ' , nor 17s 6d ; Houghall, 19s ; Hetton, 18s 6d ; Lambton, 1 73 .4,,, 6 a ; rison, 17s 6d ; Hett on Ly ons , 17s 6d ; Richmond, 7; r tle - Russell's Hetton, 19s ; Stewart's, 19s ; Caradoc 195; Tees/ pool, 17s 6d ; Kelloe, 19 5; Ad e l a id e , 18s 9d ; downdon Tee s, 17s 6d ; Dennison, 16s 3d ; Maclean's Tees, 16s dp r thlri: 18s 9d ; 'West Tees, 16s 9d ; Clackmannan, 210; ""iiresfr 218 6d ; Sidney's Hartley,Snapethorpe, J 6s ; . 14 3 ' Hartley Netherton, 16s 6d.—Ships arrived since listo BIRTHS. On the 26th ult., at Upp er S eymour - s t r eet, Por tman' g4 itige4 Mrs. Bernard Duffy, of a daughter. On the 27th ult., at Regent-terrace, Stepney , W s. Parker, of a daughter, still-born. So" On the 27th ult., at the Rectory, Sheptou BeauchaalP' merset, the lady of the Rev. J. Stratton Coles, of a s(__ MARRIED. e On the 25th u lt., a t Westerham, Kent, France s gen pr oetl Woodf mho, M.D , of An ford and Taunton, Soc;',„'" to Mary Ann e , e ld es t d a u g hter of Samuel Cotton , Lothbury and Lower Clapton. On the 27th ult., at St. Giles's, Reading, the Rev..lelelluite Hawtrey, to Frances Mary Anne, third daughter of tu Lieutenant-Colonel George Procter. On the 29th ult., at St. Matthew's Brixton; •- g • Esq., to Mary, relict of the late G. Keeling, Esq. i f e of On the 30th ult., after a long illness, Marguerite, lc Joel Pinney, Esq., of the King's-road, Chelsea. (gee' At Catton, near Norwich, o f infl uenz a, Susan, wife ` ) %Torrith Admiral Hawtayne, daughter of the late Rev. Rob ert Rector of Tat terford, and of Ajdborough, in Norfolk. . c On the 26th ult., at Clifton, Mrajor-General Josiah IU3 a On the East India Compa B ay ny's service. the 26th at ley Hall e Hertford, - He n c e fc r , ton, Esq., one of her Majesty's Justices of the Pea Herts, aged 83. On the 27th ult., in South Audley street, Charlotte.6.ll.ll. ville, the wife of T. G. French, Esq., Marino, Ireland. On the 28th ult., at Twickenham, G. Magnus, Esq' On the 28th ult., at Hastings, E. Fuller, Lsq. On the 28th ult., at Lewes, W. B. Langridge , Dn . lose s On the 29th ult., Elizabeth Bloom, the wife or sat Row, Esq., of Page-green, Tottenham. On the 29th ult., in Brunswick-terrace, Comm erciiii.r° Mary, relict of the late Mr. J. Taylor. 010' 611 ' , On the 29th ult., at Park Lodge; New-cross, 4 Esq., aged 65. iIiOATTHL 1' MILITARY OBITUAR • viro,le , Generals—Sir T. Saumarez, Guernsey; Sir Char' K.C.15., Col. 33 F. Lieutenant- General—Thos L'Estrange. w . r, an d Major-Generals—Clement Hill ; Reeves C.B.► -,..,,,-'1,"0/01 K.H. late of 27 F., Lieut.-Gov. of Placentia : ' Sir "- Corsellis, K.C.8., E.I.C. Seri/. ; Roome, E.I.C. Sere -- , , Colonel—Kingston, E.I.C. Serv. n F. Lieut.-Colonels—Bouverie, 89 F. Mackay, h.pe 6- To r Majm-s—Byron, 34 F.. London ; G r iffiths, h.p. 94 F s —Byron, ijusfa linson, linatt. (late 11 Dr.); Geo. de Illutier, hP. ' Germ. Le. 'VW Captains g W I F. V —eleverty , 79 F • Henderson, R. Ei.ngdoebello colt, h.p. 4 F. ; Haviland, h.p. Wagg on Train ; l'• h.p. 1 Line Bn. Germ. Leg. RA 12 Lieutenants—Tynte, 4 Dr. Gds. ; G. H. n 40 1 . j aw F. ; Juxon, late 6 Vet. Bn. ; Riddoc h, h. p . 44 F•' ston, h.p. Can. Fenc. Fort Adj. Isle Aux Nom. sm. 2d Lieutenants and Ensigns--Tulk, h.p. Z 6 F. ; 31, ' L ithe 8 Lin e 3W. I. Reg. ;B. Pogson, h.p. R. Spiel, 11-P - Bn. Germ. Le F . Adjutant—fwiss, Kerry MiL (.Icna als"-"'. Commissariat Department—Dep. C o mm. ..., Gauntlett, h.p. ; W. Webb. h. p- Medical Department—Surgeon—Vassall, h.p. `2!,.. } : e Dn. Assist, Surgeons—lrving, 68 F. ; Gerson, b.p. u"' Germ. Leg —.o'4 et London: Printod and Published by BIURDO s o . 111 No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sin 00e, .r in tl5 he Cono. Strand. in the Precinct of the Sayof, TUeSdai;ipril 1, 1845. CP] !rrom TE Star 0: Ito Notice of the - Tavern, 1 One o'cic EEPOlti 31st Deco and one Ellice, E who go o selves for come a c must sip (ace, fox C'' The C It AIM. Lincoln l ' and at w in favour by large The fo. • and 2A:col " Reso system c xeported Itud Line coin to Both t either lie Northerr -to the wl liament 1 The a: John Coi Lincolna Upon decide w affirmati similar r place, wi to decide have the The C proof to of persoi Norther] t* hold t aiderabh parts of part tat OF The C PAM( that the vemor, parsuan 5734, 014 o'Clock They On Spec C' porters Dealers extensi) London, by their Gs. ; Au Cubas, Cabana! kind eqi choice 21b., 41t 200 lb. W. BUT Gene: Wareho P' F the ord vrincip Unpure The Mend° .nd Ci ddrcus, 31arkt and in Direct gi Old B A Nervo Iluenz prcvei duced sealed full le Agent may medic Tet:7l mod Mee men ing 1 mitt of tl