The Sun. — London, England, 1821-04-07 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT, HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIL 6. ROYAL ASSENT. At half-past three o'clock, the LORD CHANCEL... LOR, the Earl •of SHAFTESBURY, and Viscount MELVILLE, appeared with a Commission from his ,Majesty, and gave the Royal Assent to the fol lowing Bills :—The Commercial_ Intercourse, the Husbandry Horses Duties, the Irish Attornies' Fees Regulati.on,:the Irish Witchcraft Law Re peal; the - Grampound 'Witnesses Indemnity Bills, and a vatiety - ef.private Message was ordered to be sent to the Commons. to' request leave for S . ir Manasseh Lopez to attend the se cond,:peading of the Grampound • Disfranchise ment White, -from the King's Bench o.tliseargsented extracts and copies of certain RecadS of Conviction, pursuant to their Lord ships';%rder.—Laid -on the table.—The Inn keeger's-hates Bill . was read a third time, passed, ansl sent to the Commons. ~• • • ROMAN CATHOLICS.. Viscouit SIDMOUTII presented' a Petition from the Pmn..and Chapter of the Collegiate Church of St;P4er's, 'Westminster, against the Catholic Ciaiins.—Laid on the table.. ' Th. -- Bishop of • LONDON presented similar Pe titioss from the Clergy of Sion College, and from the Rector, Churchwardens, and Inhabitants of the P:iiish of chrisichurch, Middlesex. The latter,'lN :Right Reverend' Prelate stated, was signed by.2s€9o persons.—Read, and laid on the table... - 77. Viscoutit SIDMOUTH presented a petition against the Catholic clahns from certain Parishes in the county 'Of Stirling.—Laid on the. table. The Earl. or SHAFTESBURY presented petitions to the same effect from Hitchin, in the county of Hertford,' Sutton Colefield, in the county of Warwick, and from the Royal Burgh of Dum fries, irk the county of . Dumfries in Scotland.— Laid on the ,table. The Earl of DONPUGIIMORE held a petition on the samPsubject, from a most respectable body of Clergy Men; not of the Established Church.— They., were, in fact, Roman Catholics, and ob jected ,not to. such a Bill as that which had come befoie their Lordships, but to some of the provi sions which if contained. That objection was .the same which he entertained, and would, he trust e I, be removed by the alterations which their Lordihlps would think proper to effect in the measure. The•petitio'n was from the Roman Ca thr,lic Bishop . and Clergy of the county of Li merick, than whom there could not be a mere respectable body in; existence. As the petition was against some parts of the Catholic Bill, he should beg that it be read at length. The petition having been read, The LORD CHANCELLOR was understood to object to the description given by the petitioners of themselves, as the Roman Catholic Bishop and Clergy•of the county of Limerick. The Earl of DoNouanmonE-could not conceive how any doubt could be entertained of the pro pri,4y of a person exercising the functions of a Bishop. calling himself by that name. The power of ordination was the touchstone by which the character of a Bishop was to be known ; and it wasa fact, that if any person ordained by a Catholic Bishop afterwards chose to conform to the -Fistablished Church, - he became at once a Minister of that Church,,,Withotit undergoing any freshordiriation: ThiStad been exemplified in the ca.e . .ot. the celebrated preacher, • Mr. Kir wan;,who had. become a Protestant Minister after having : been ordained by a Catholic Bishop.— This, proved- that - the character of a Catholic Bishop was. acknowledged by our laws. Tie Latin- CHANCELLOR had never meant to deny s tfte character of a Bishop to the individual mentioned in the-Petition s or that he had a. right to exercise the Episcopal functions. lie only objected to the phraseology of the Petition, whicirrepresented him as the CatholicTishop of Limerick,: for' t could not be admitted- that there were twin 'Bishops for Limerick, any more than for Glaticester,- or nay other places He, how trot•rneati to oppose the receiving of the Petition. The Petition was then ordered toile on the table.A.djourned till Monday..: HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Sr EA KER took the Chair at' half-past.three o'cloc,k, and was shortly after summoned in the usual manner to the House of Lords, to hear the Royal Assent given to certain Bills, for which see Lords' Report. NEWINGTON VESTRY BILL COMMITTEE. As soon its the SPEAKEIt had returned to the House, and resumed the Chair, _ Sir R. WILSON addressed the Chair on the subject of some most disorderly and irregular conduct which had taken place that morning in a Committee up stairs, appointed by the House.— This conduct was of such a nature that he con ceived it incumbent on him to represent it to the House, and to obtain that justice from them, which it had been found impossible to obtain from the Chairman of the Committee. The House would remember the circumstances under which the present Committee on• the Newington Select Vestry Bill_ was appointed. It had been the opinion of the last Committee on that Bill, that the preamble of the Bill was not true, in conse quence of some of the Standing Orders of that House not having•been strictly complied with.— Upon receiving this Report the House was in. duced to appoint a Special Committee, to ex amine into the abstract point of whether the Standing Orders alluded to had been infringed or not. That Special Committee having reported that the said Orders of the House had been suf ficiently complied with to .justify the further progress of the Bill, the House again appointed a Committee on the Pill, with power to send for persons, papers, and records. this was the his tory of the transactions up to that day, when on the assembling of the , Committee, his Hon. Friend, the Member for, the Borough, thought fit to make a proposition to send for the Report of the Special Committee, which ' motion was carried by a decided majority ; but, notwith standing that, the Chairman,.the Hon. Member for Surrey (Mr. H. Sumner) was the means of preventing the decision of the Committee from being carried into effect. Under these circum stances, the perverseness of the Chairman ob structing all proceeding with the business of the Committee, he (Sir RAY.) moved an adjournment, in order that they might have the benefit of elle Speaker's advice; for their exclusion from sending for the Report by which they were authorised to sit, appeared to him to be a gross violation of justice, and the orders of the House itself. That question was put and carried by a majority in the negative, and thus they saw themselves deprived of the means of ascertaining the extent of the powers with which they were invested, or of the views by which they were directed to sit again. Ile was aware that in the space of time which these proceedings occupied, great disor del; prevailed in the Committee ; and in the course of the discussion about to ensue, allusions would be made to the irregularities that were committed ; but he begged to ask who were the cause and origin of the whole ? Those undoubt edly who refused to send for the papers demand ed by the Committee in the first place, and then opposed a reasonable proposition to refer the questions at issue to the Speaker. Such conduct was in violation of every principle of common sense and justice. He was confident the House would bear out the decision of the Committee, by ordering the paper in question to be referred to it, and he hoped it would be remembered that if they did not enforce their own regulations they could have no hope of being able to command respect from out of doors. For these reasons he should move " That the Reports made by the late Committee on the Standing Orders of the House with respect to the Newington Select Vestry Committee, be referred to the said Com mittee." Mr. 11. SUMNER did not rise for the purpose of opposing the motion of the Gallant Member ; nor for the purpose of making any reply to his observations as to the origin and cause of the dis orders which had occurred that morning in the Committee of which he was the Chairman, (Hear, hear!)—lie should only observe, for the present, that the course of proceeding there was one of the most extraordinary he had ever known or witnessed.—(Cheers from both sides of the House.)—T hose proceedings opened a question for that House relative to the regulation of Com mittees up stairs, as important as any that had ever yet come before it ; and he, as Chairman, should feel it his duty to bring it before them in the spirit of complaint. lie would not at that moment be led into a partial debate. The matter was of that consequence that he would not bring it forward till there should be a full House, in about an hour or two. Mr. HUME said, that the present was the proper time for the Honourable Member to bring forward his threatened complaint. He felt that it would be the duty of some Member to bring forward a complaint against the. Chairman himself.— (Hear, hear !) • Mr. H. SUMNER said, the only reason for delaying his motion was the very thin state of the House. Mr. HUME said, that he thought the reason an extraordi nary one. He saw millions of the public money were voted by much thinner Houses.—(Hear, hear !) Mr. LITTLETON took the opportunity of calling the at tention of the House to the manner in which private business was conducted • and he gave notice of his intention to bring the subject before the House during the present Session. ' Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW said, that the ground of difference, as appeared to him, sprang out of a motion that the Report of the Select Committee should be read. Mr. LAMBTON said, that he was the person that made the motion. It was, that the Report should be laid before the Committee—not that it should be read. Mr. W. WYNN said, that the motion was altogether un necessary, for every Member of the Committee had an oppor tunity of referring to the Journals when the Report was to be made. Mr. F. PALMER said, that it appeared to him that one part of the Committee wished to refuse information to the other. Mr. SUMNER persisted in his intention of bringing the question forward in the course of the.evening. Mr. G. BENNET said. that if the House went into a dis cussion, they,would be edified with hearing the statement of one side contradicted by the statement of the other. , Mr. S. WORTLEY suggested the propriety of deferring further discussion on the subject. Mr. P. MOORE bore testimony to the confusion which reigned in the Committee. Every motion that had been made by Gentlemen on his side of the House had been negatived. Mr. W. COURTENAY begged to call to the recollection of the House that the motion of the Honourable and Gallant General,'.the Member for Southwark, remained to be dispos ed of. - - Sir R. HERON said, that if the Honourable Member (Mr. Sumner) had, as Chairman of the Committee, pursued a more emperate line of conduct, the present transaction never would have been brought before the`House. The conduct of the 110- nourable Member-.appeared more like a partial advocate than an indifferent and impartial Chairman of a Committee of that House.—The motion was then put and carried. COMPLAINT AGAINST THE CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE. Mr. HU3IE next rose, and was about to address the House, when Mr. S. WORTLEY said, that if the HonOurable Member were about to bring forward any motion respecting the conduct of the Chairman, he would protest against such motion without previous notice being given. Mr. HUME submitted to the Speaker that the present was the time to call the. attention of the House to transactions re specting a private Bill. The SPEAKER said that the House would not expect from him to decide as to what was or was not the proper time. The House was aware that private business was usually transacted in the early part of the evening, but it was the privilege of Honourable Members to bring public matters under the atten tion of the House at any time they might think fit. Mr. HUME then proceeded to make his motion. lie should not have persisted in troubling the House at that particular period, had it not been for the threat held out by the Hon. Chairman that he would, as .soon as the Speaker took the Chair, bring a charge against every individual who had opposed him in the Committee. The lion. Member then recounted the occurrences of the morning in the Committee alluded to. There were he believed twenty-five Members on each side who would be able to corrobciate his state ment, or put the House in possession of the facts of the case. As he disapproved of the principle of the Bill, which went to disfranchise a great number of the inhabitants of the Parish of New ington, he had made a point of attending this Committee, which that morning he had found very fully attended with not less than 50 . or 60 Members. His lion. Friend moved as he went into the Committee that the Report of the Se . , Ject Committee be read. A.. division took place pn this question, which was opposed by the lion. Chairman. At• the moment of proceeding to di vide three members came in, one of whom was the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury. The Chair, man upon this declared that those members should riot vote, and directed them in a manner not re markable for mildness or urbanity to leave the room. His Hon. Friend the Member for Shrews bury refused to do this, declaring that although he might not be permitted to rote he saw no reason for quilling the room, .and had never heard of such a command - coining from the `Chairman of any COnirnittee up- stairs before. The Honourable Chairman. - then, with no ghat alteration in tone -or gesture-, ordered the Clerk to write',tlOwn the names of these three Members, vowing • that, they should not be allowed to vote. This• might tend to give the House a notion of the temper likely to have been. created in the Committee: The lion. Member for Hull declared,. that he should have been in the room time enough to be entitled to vote had. it not been for the exit of strangers which prevented his entering, although he had his hand on. the handle of the door, and heard the question put from the Chair. Under these cir cumstances he contended it was the duty of the Chairrnan to put the question again. This the Chairman refused. •It was then moved that the Committee should adjourn, in order to refer the: point in dispute to the Speaker. This motion was also negatived, although he was convinced there could not have been a more reasonable one un der the circumstances made. The division accord ingly took Place ; and when the tellers handed up their report of the numbers, through the Clerk, to the Chairman, that Hon. Gentleman, with that peculiar Suavity of manners for which he was distinguished, threw the paper down on the table, declaring that he would-not put it. Such were the circumstances which originated the confusion complained of ; and although he scarcely knew if he were proceeding regularly, he should movk.! that it be a resolution of the House, " That the conduct of the Chairman of the Committee ap pointed by that House'to sit upon the Newington Select Vestry Bill, was intemperate and irregu lar, and led to riot and disorder in the Com mittee' The Honourable Member was proceeding to write down his motion, in .order to hand it to the Speaker to put to the House, when— " Mr. NVYNE remarked upon the anomaly of calling upon the House to pass an opinion upon a subject of which they could know nothing.—(Hear !)--If the motion were enter tained, the House would be occupied the next hour and a half in hearing contradictory staternents from the two sides of the House, which could Lead them to no satisfactory conclusion. Mr. HUME declared his readiness to meet the convenience of the House, by either withdrawing or delaying his motion ; for, as he had before said, it was only brought in consequence of the threat of the Honourable Member for Surrey to bring his charge against them as soon as the Speaker should take the Chair. Mr. WROTTESLEY thought it would-be most inconve nient to the "'Ouse to go on with this matter at present, and he thought the better way would be to adjourn the debate. The SPEAKER pointed out the inconvenient shape of the motion proposed to be made by the Hon. Member for Aber deen. If the question for the consideration of the House were some abstract point as to the duties of Chairman of a Committee under any supposed circumstances, there would be no difficulty in the House entertaining it. But when the question was a charge against an individual for his personal conduct in the discharge of the duties of his situation generally, he did not see how the House could make their way clearly through it. At all events, if a proposition Of that nature were to be entertained, it would Le necessary to hive the Minutes of the Committee in question, in order to have the best and fullest information to help them to a correct decision. . Sir J. MACINTOSH would remind the House that the whole originated in the notice given by the Hon. Member for Surrey. Undoubtedly it was competent to a Chairman of a Committee to originate a motion in thatliouse with respect to the proceedings of that Committee. But he believed that for a Chairman to give notice of a criminatory proceeding against any part of a Committee, without the authority of the majority, was at least unusual. He thought that the notice was objec tionable also upon the ground that it was introduced at a mo ment when the parties must be so heated by their recent alter cation as to lead to the occurrence of scenes, such as no friend to order and the dignity of that House would wish to see take place. How fax, indeed, the. Hon. Member himself, with that peculiar felicity of his temper to which all who ever knew him could bear testimony, might come to the discussion free from any share of those heats and irritations, it was impossible for him to say ; but he would venture to assert, that very few in deed of the parties on either side could expect to meet the ques tion with that 'calmness and conciliation which were . necessary to make the discussion any way beneficial. Indeed, he depre cated the introduction of the subject altogether. It could pro. duce nothing but discredit to the Committee and the House.._ He was persuaded that the Hon. Member for Surrey, on con sideration, would' withdraw his notice ; and he was sure that the motion of his Hon. Friend, the Member for Aberdeen, which was purely defensive, would be also withdrawn. Mr. SUMNER said, he would not be thrown off his guard by the very invidious insinuations of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (a laugh), or the very unhandsome part which he had taken. He denied that his notice, thOugh one certainly of complaint, was of a criminatory nature, and he was ready to gO on with it. He waited .for the opinion of the House, whe ther he should' ppear as the accuser or the accused. Mr. WYNN suggested the propriety of a delay to Monday. Mr. DENISON said, he was sorry that the Hon. Gentleman should have been betrayed into a slight deviation from the right line. Mr. SUMNER spoke to order. He wished to know whe ther he was now called upon to defend his conduct ? Mr. S. WORTLEY suggested the propriety of the Hon. Member withdrawing his notice of motion till Monday. ' After the Hon. Gentleman sat down, several Members rose together and caused some confusion in the House. Mr. DENISON said, that, if he were not interrupted, he would have made a proposition which would have reconciled all parties ; it was, that the Committee having got a paper which they deemed essential, if the Honourable Member for Surrey would withdraw his threat of an accusation, the Mem bers of the Committee would be contented not to proceed further. Mr. SUMNER refused to withdraw his notice, and was proceeding to make some observations, when— Sir J. NEWPORT said, that he hoped a delay of at least 48 hours would be allowed to take place. Mr. SUMNER said, it was indifferent to him ; he was ready to proceed now or on Monday. Mr. BENNET would object to the delay of a single hour. He was sure that on whatever day this subject might be inquir ed into, the House would find itself in this singular predica ment—namely, that it would have twenty-five Members on one side flatly contradicting the assertions of twenty-five Members on the other.—(A laugh.)—That this would be the case he ' would pledge himself. If this was the case on the onset, was it likely that the progress and conclusion would be a bit more satisfactory ? For-his part he felt no zeal for a conciliatory ad justment from any alarm about his own conduct. He would submit that it should be considered by the House that what' passed there went forth to the world, and would ask how far it might be to their credit that it should he blazoned forth, in every part of the empire, that a number of Gentlemen on both sides had so lost their temper, that one party flatly contradicted another? He would recommend, therefore, that the matter re ceived be postponed sine die. The SPEAKER said, that the House always reposed in its Committees the utmost confidence, and never imputed inten tions to pursue a wrong line of conduct. With respect to the points that came immediately,before the House, the practice of Parliament was, that Members who entered the House whilst strangers were withdrawing, after the question put, had not a right to vote on the question. As to the other point, it appear ed to him, that where the Report of the Tellers agreed as to numbers, that report was always acted on. Members were never counted a second time,unless where there existed a strong impression that an error had taken place in counting. Mis conceptions and errors might take place without room exist ing for throwing any imputation on the conduct of any party. He suggested, that if any further proceeding should be deemed necessary, the House was more likely to come to a fair and temperate judgment on an abstract question as to the regular motion of proceeding on the Committee, than it could do by involving itself in questions of a pertonal nature. After t& SPEAKER sat down, the subject dropped without any observation. • A Message from the. Lords requested that Sir M. Lopez might be allowed to give . evidence before their Lordships, on the Grampound Disfranchisement Bill.—The House replied that they would send an answer by Messengers of their own.- CRIMINAL CODE. Sir W. LEMON presented a petition from certain inhabi tants of Falmouth, praying for a• revision of the Criminal Code. Laid on the table, .I_l4 ordered toA_printed.. PUBLIC DI ESS. Mr. lIEATHCOIt presented a petition from the inhabi- Cants of the parish of litii - Aerstone, in Lincolnshire, complain ing of the pressure of taxation, and of the excessive amount of the poor rates, and praying for the adoption of an efficient sys tem of economy an:dietrenchment.-.-The petition was laid on the table, and ~ . .-dered tO be printed. Sir It. HERON presented a petition from thelown of Stain ford, in Lincolnshire, • which, he observed, was most mime respectably. signed. He perfectly agreed in the sen timents contained in the petition, and he lioped that the repre sentations which were pouring in from every part of the coun try would at length convince the House of the necessity of af fording some effectual relief to the agricultural interest.—Laid on the table. TIMBER TRADE. Sir G. CLERK presented a petition from the sawyers of Leith and Edinburgh, praying that no alteration might be made in the duty oh the importation of sawed timber.—Laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. CLERKS IN CIVIL OFFICES Mr. MABERLY moved for " a return of all clerks and others admitted to any civil offices in the United Kingdoin, since the Ist of January, 1816, specifying their names r Vatti of their appointment, the offices they hold, the amount of 'sala'- ries and emoluments of office ; separating the different depart; ments in England, Ireland, and Scotland, from each other." '.•'• After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the Eiccur- QUEII, the motion was agreed to. ..•' . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then moved for " an account of all clerks and others whos,q services had been discontinued during the same period."—Ordered. - The Irish Coroners' Bill was read a second time.—To committed on Monday. • • CHURCH BRIEFS BILL. Mr. LITTLETON moved the second reading of the above Bill. Mr. CURIVEN expressed his general approbation of this measure. Under the old system flagrant frauds had been pu petrated. • Mr. MONCIC wished that part of the Bill to be amended which imposed certainly very severe duties on. the Church wardens. • Mr. LITTLETON explained, and the Bill was read a se cond time, and ordered to be committed for Friday next. On the motion of Mr. Serjeant ON SLOW, the tr!al for treason (Ireland) Bill was read a third time. He moved to insert a clause to assimilate the case of attempting the King's life, or Compassing or imagining, his death, to the English law ; and the clause being inserted, - the Bill passed. METROPOLIS ROADS BILL: • Mr. D. GILBERT moved the second reading of the Me tropolis Roads Bill. The Hon. Member stated, that the ob-, ject of the Bill was to consolidate the various Road Trusts in the . neighbourhood of London. He complained that these trusts were too much subdivided, and one object 'of his Bill would be to widen some of the roads and shut up others. Ile did not deny but that the roads under the present syStem were tolerably good, but they were preserved at a great ex pence. Sir E. KNATCHBULL contended, that the new Bill would entail ten times the expence on repairing the roads, which under the present system was required. He opposed the Bill in all its parts, and moved, as an amendment, that it be read a second time this day six months. Mr. DENISON said, that there was already so much eco nomy and management in the roads, that there was no occasion for any alteration in the trusts. Mr. CURWEN objected to the various enactments of the Bill, and supported the amendment. Mr. F. LEWIS admitted that the condition of those roads was very good, but he did not think they were managed with sufficient economy. Mr. CALCRAFT opposed the Bill, and contended that the roads in the vicinity of the metropolis were in a better state than any roads in the kingdom. He then referred to the vari ous petitions which had been presented against the Bill, and in sisted that the measure was altogether unnecessary. According to the theory of the lion. Gentleman who had just sat down, all the trusts were to be superseded without any sufficient cause. He objected to the second reading of the Bill, but if it was read a second time, he hoped it would be sent to a Committee up stairs. Sir H. PARNELL supported 'the Bill, and vindicated the measures pursued by the Committee. He thought that by a modification of the trusts much good might be dated. Mr. SUMNER would support the second reading, but with the understanding that the Bill was to be referred to a Select Committee, and not to a Committee of the whole House. After a few words fro,m Mr. DENISON, the House proceeded to divide,. and the numbers were— For the Motion - 83 Against it Majority for the second.reading . . - 67 Upon our re-admission to the Gallery, we found Mr. D. GILBERT on his legs, recommending a reference of the Bill to a Committee of the whol&House. Mr. If. SUMNER moved Wok the Bill be referred to a Se lect Committee ; and after a short - conversation between Sir E. Knatchbull, Mr.Calcraft, and the Chancellorof the Exchequer, Mr. D. Gilbert acceded to the Amendment. The question for referring the Bill to a Select Committee was accordingly put and agreed to. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved That the House, on its rising, adjourn to Monday next.—Agreed to. Lord MILTON postponed his Motion on Foreign Wool until after the recess. Mr. H. SUMNER gave notice, that on Monday he would move to renew the Committee on the Newington Vestry Bill. SUPPLY. Upon the motion of the CHANCELLOR: of the I ; EXCHEQUER, that the House do now resolve itself into a Committee of Sapplyr . .; • Mr. CREEVEY rose to oppose the motion. The course which he was about to take might not, he said, be very agreeable to the Rt. Hon. Gentle man opposite, or to the House, but he felt it ne cessary, in the discharge of his public duty, to oppose the motion for going into a Committee of Supply. Instead of going on he thought it was the dgty of the House to retrace its steps. There had been supplies enough voted, and, what good had been hitherto effected ? Notwithstanding all the petitions from all parts of the kingdom, corn plaining of the greatest distresses, and praying for the strictest economical reform, the ITOUFC had still gone on voting away millions of money, and all the labours of hiaHon.'Friend the Mem ber for Aberdeen (Mt:llll'93e) had not produced the diminution of one singlg.larthing in the pub lic expenditure. Under theie circumstances, no thing should induce him, as far as his vote or influence in that House went, to go again into a Committee of Supply: The Members of that House had been called the trustees of the people,' but they differed froni all other trustees, for they themselves lived upon the property of the people. ---(Hear!)--When the affairs of a private Gen tleman were deranged, the first thing his trustees did was to cut off all needless expences, and to :discharge all the useless dependents and hangers on. But here the trustees of the people were themselves the useless servants and hangers-on.—.- He had often thought that as the people of England found it was of no use to petition that House, it would be a good thing, and certainly an entertaining one, to see them represented by Delegates at . the Bar of the House. . What would be the natural language of Delegates so sent to assert the rights of the people ? They would say, " we are come here to talk to you, and we are bold to say, that we entertain a shrewd suspicion that you make a very good thing of us—(Laughter I)—We are aware that there are snug places. to the amount of 150,0001. a year, which you enjoy, and which you will never consent to forego to relieve the dis tresses of the people. This may be a very plea: sant arrangement. for you, but it is no laughing matter for us." Such was the language which the Delegates of the People would naturally use. Supposing the people to be so represented, he should like to have seen their Delegates in the House during the last ten days ; when 7 his Hon. Friend the Member Vic Essex obtained leave, about a fortnight ago, to bring in a Bill for the Repeal of the Malt Tax, this was considered a great triumph—it was hailed as the beginning of better times. tilt he should neVO forget, and the people of England would never forget, the language of the Noble Lord, who was manager of the trustees. ". Do not triumph too soon," said the Noble Manager, do not halloo befos. you are out of the wood"—(Hear; hear I.)—The Noble Lord, howeveer, had mile good his threat, he had brought rq..the truseees.Of the people from ' all parts . of the country, and his Honourable - Friend's majority of 25 was converted into a rna jority of 98 against him. And this-was not all, for a great Northern GrandeeWas.made the vic tirri_ofhis attenipt_ to assist'his . stifferinw., conntry. actually' coMplained in that House . ,that he..had . foSt4ool,,it year for 'having had'the .hardihood tO Votefor, the.retieal of an'obnoxious r ' . ,:iax----:(llear, - heitt!)-L--This was-41. flagrant breach I 'of,the'privileges• of that House; yet the Hon. MeMbers for Fork and Montgomery,thoseCham- • .pions of privilege.,- were silent upon that subject. Let a printer commit a trifling error, - land the HOuse was . sure ., to hear enough of the attack upon their privileges; but when a gross and tin constitutional attack upon, their privileges:was - made' through the influence of the Crown, not a word was to be said upon the.sUbject--(Hear, - hear !)—'Phis was really enough to mate therit' sick of privilege, and stilt more sick of its .cham- • pions—(Hear, hear !)—The Honourable Mem ber concluded by moving the following Reso lution : " That during the present Session of Parliament, Petitions have been presented to this, House from every part of this king" • dom, and from every description of its population, containing statements of distress hitherto unheard of in this nation, and uni formly demanding, as one species of 'relief to their sufferings, the strictest possible economy in the expenditure of the . public money ; that the statement's so made 'itave in every ins:tans,: been fully confirmed by the local information of tlis different Members of this House, who have presented such Petitions,' and yet, notwithstanding such universal applications flr relief. the ,• different estimates for the public service for the year have hitherto been prOCeeded in, and Millions of money voted for such par.; poses, without any the least possible reduction whatever by this House, although-repeated eiorts lia;e been made to effect the same. That this House entertains the strongest possible opinion, that this marked indifference. of the Representative I.'iody to the sufferings of its constituents, is-mainly attributable to th e follow ing fact, viz. :—That a very numerous body of the Members of tlus House derive for thei:iselves, thsir faneilies, connexions. and dependents, large pecuniary provisions. flora the taxes .of the people ; and as such provisions for the inolt part are made either for Mfices altogether useless, or groisly overpaidr' and therefore the fittest objects for iiitmediat t extinction or reduction, • so the holders or disposers of them in this House have a direct personal interest in resistin7, every species of economical Reform whatsoever ; that in addition to this great permanent bar to all economical Reform, the licruxe has lately witnessed, with the greatest indignation, the influence of the Crown displayed by its Ministers its this House in a manner the most arbitrary, and - with the. express and avowed object of interfering with its Members in the discharge of-their dull to their Constituents ;• the Earl of Fife; who lai'elV held the ot fice of one of the Lords of the Bedchamber to his -Majesty, hav 7 , ing recently declared in his place in the Reuse, as one of its Members, that he had been dismissed from his office as bona of the Bedchamber to his Majesty, in consequence of having voted in this House in favour of a Bill t o re pe a l a t a x 11. 1) 6 n Malt. " That; under all these circumstances, this I-louse:ls of opi nion it will better . Consult ifs own honour and the inter-f:;t public by immediately - inquiring into the facts be.fere • eel, than in go i ng an y l onger inlo . Committees of Supply to co'`_ away the mon e y o f t h e peo pl e Wi t h out th e - slightest -possible, prospect of tenet° the country." Mr. HontiousE rose to second the motion. Nothing could be more constitutional than the course pursued by hiS Honourable FriethL ft was not necessary to go back for precedents stl far as the reign of Queen Elizabeth, for in 0 1 , 6 early part . of the reign of Charles the First, be fore the struggles between that Monarch and tb''' Parliament, Sir T. Wentworth, afterwardS Lord Strafford, moved a Resolution in that House, that supply and grieVances should go hand in 1-13.0 The individual who adopted this sentiment w - ai a man of the first rank and talent in the country' and not liable to the imputation of being a heated enthusiast. In tl4 Parliament, called the Pen sion Parliament, the attention of the House Iva! called to what was then considered a n extra ordinary fact, that 2,400,0001. were voted in 24 hours, but that House was grown familiar instances in which much larger sums were voted away in 24 hours. Ile did not state this fro;' any wish to exaggerate tire grievances of which the people had reason to complain, and 11 ' begged to call the attention of the House to 1 declaration of Lord Grenville in th e oth e r 11 011-:e Of Parliament in 1816, C 4 that if Parliament 011 : tinned to support the keeping up of a large stali; ing, army, ands to lavish- the public money as they did, he would not trouble himself to take: . part in debates which he could regard as nothi n t , less than a farce." In the time of the Pensio n Parliament 24 Memberi were posted as indivi duals who received pensions from the Crown' Now he (Mr. HObhouse), on a recent division counted hirriself no fewer than forty-seven PO: sioners in a very small majority.—Such was t . tu: difference in this respect between the presen t Parliament and the notorious Pension Parliame nt ' - the measures6f which were denounced.by Andre* Marvel as calculated to leave neither liberty O r property in the country. As to the dismissal ° f Lord Fife. from his office of Lord of the Be" - chamber, in consequence 'of the vote which ije gave in that House, it was'a measure taken in , di rect opposition to the spirit of the COT l Stitliti ° "P and in violation of . the Bill of Rights, which de clared that freedom of speech in debates or Pr' ~. ceedingsin Parliament ought not to be impeach" , / or questioned. if the speech of a Mt-either of that. House -could not be questioned, still less oug' h :. his vote to he made the subject . animadverSi gli ' and if the• Ministers of the Crown could not get up in their places and deny the charge, he 11 . 1.; not the least hesitation in saying that they 1 :4 1 , liable to impeachment for their conduct. Honourable. Member then proceeded to eb f s er t ` he . upon the operation which the influence O, been Crown had in that House, which had eti t ° growing up for many reigns, and threaten_ the overlay all public spirit, and utterly destr?.Y iia ., efficiency of Parliament as the organ of the c tional will. On this subject, he quoted' gi. ,,o p:sr u st_ from a famous pamphlet on hush -motley' p fished in the reign of William III.; which plained of the manner in which the House ryas officered , the effect produced upon its suffrages t m p b y r e a n c e saeniduamu, .other ra consequencen d honest, m isexp ectancy,tak ( 1: cou ntry'ieu dneGePtfotfs c e o n m ab p l l e a d in t t he of K g i r n ie g va t n o ce b , afl a i r e i ' d at e r z y tr . r ß y il a i, ny ( l u rn as e;se - t i n - it e , that the Administration might think exPi ,a It stated that 200,0001. had been ei nploy(:,(•; , e votes of es and lalltrves' 50 ) 0°1 t bb h ue e rt s s e .wbi p )ya u trgprwoa was e, us ttih - e t .es o tco a influence sethnetnowsltsh,