The Sun. — London, England, 1821-03-21 00:00:00

)1E N: ) Tur • IVT - S - VAV 4,1'. • D-4 fr? A • TO im _DL--iimvEß, ED GR MIN TES OF EVIDENCE Ta ken bffo re the Select Committee appointed to - consider of the deans of maintaining and imprown g the FOitEiGN TRADE of country; and t o re p or t their Opinion and Observations thereon to the House. Lance, 19 die Fcbruarii, 1821. THOMAS WILSON, Esquire, in the chair. Examination of MOMS Toeke, Esq. continued. of liter you should suppose more difference Would be produced by levying a duty s s• on the one, and reducing the duty ss. on the other ?—The timber trade gee ner dy, I conceive, would be benefited by a reduction ; but in no ease can it be ,enefited by a mere additional duty upon the American timber, without any re duction upon the Baltic timber. Should you conceive, that so small a reduction as ss. on the Beide timber would give th a t a d vantage to the importer- of the timber, or that it would be likely to raise e price in the p orts f rom w hi ch it would be shipped ? I think a reducti on o f s s l . would be too trifling to produce any perceptible effect on an article of such vCry large consumption and importation generally. Are you suffieiently acquainted with the relative value of the timber of the growth of the two countries, to state what d u t y on A mer i can t i m b er, or what reduction of the duty on the Baltic timber, you should think likely to Produce a beneficial effect on the timber trade, without driving the American timber out of the market ? am not sufficiently acquainted With the difference of quality between the two, to be able to pronounce a n y distinct opinion on th at po i nt . What, in your opinion, ought to be the alteration of duty, either by a reduction of duty on Baltic timber, or by imposition of duty on British colonial timber, or by combination of both, so as to place the timber trade on the fairest footing, in order that each article should be applied to the purposes for which it is best adapted ?—I should conceive that a reduction of the duty upon Baltic timber, or aAreduction of the duty on the Baltic combined with ari imposition of duty upon boutcan timber, so as to reduce - the pr esen t p rotect i on i n f avour o f t h e l atter b y 30s a load, would be a material benefit to the Baltic trade without, as I conceive, removing the competition of the timber from our own colonies. Can you inform the Committee what are the data on which you rest that opi nion ?_Although not practically acquainted with the precise difference of the v rality of th e t i mber, so as to speak of it tech nically, or with any degree of posi eness, I have the impression that it is of an inferior quality, which, upon the Principle of an ad valorem duty, would justify a smaller duty on the American Diasn Balti c t i m b er, supposing the voyages equal in distance. the timber from R u s sia i m p orte d i nto this country, chiefly imported in d ea l s a tti quare timber, and in what proportion ?—I cannot speak from present recol '3n ; I believe the proportion of deals is larger than that of timber. lls not th e d uty on ,Russian deals considerably less in proportion th an th e d u t y taqUare timber ?—I am not competent to speak with accuracy on that point. nlyerfectly aware that it is less, but to what degree I cannot say. to as it a b out one-third ?—Yes ; I cannot say positively, not ha v i ng h a d occas i on make the calculation. Its not the ti m b er tr ad e at present carr i ed on with very little profit ?—Noi only carried on without profit, but it is, I believe, carried on with a loss. / e ls not t h at trade carried on prin cipally, if not entirely, with British ships ? 7lieve the Russian timber trade is wholly carried on by British ships. a rn u a as not the system of this government, of discouraging the importation of Baltic la 'er, produced very great commercial prejudices against us in all the countries ei, s a. Baltic ?—I believe it has been productive of very injurious effects in the t b - e rtion of the Russian government, and probably, next to our exclusion of 1.1 li nens and corn, more than any other. zas it not been an inducement to the inhabitants of those countries to press upon , governments a countervailing system of exclusion of articles of the growth eon nt Manufacture ry of this country ? —lt has ; and I believe, that the system in this of prohibitory duties and exclusion, has been the ground upon which the oar refine rs at Petersburg have very recently represented the impolicy of allowing B ra claished sugars to be admitted upon the same footing as the Havannah and a u• sugars ; an d memorials have been presented to the Rus s i a n government spa_tniportant c l asses of its own subjects, proving the superior advantages of their balasatlantic commerce, from the circumstance of . so many of their productions O n g admitted either without duty, or comparatively at very moderate duties, into P orts of America and Havannah, which are wholly.prohibited here, or only gre ed ! l upon the payment of high duties. i y not of opinion, that a country having such extensive and valuable ma peZetures as this, for which to find a market, should give as little countenance as jaible to - a restrictive system, where there is not some very great object to be n ed by it ?—1 am of opinion that ever y restriction that is not warranted by the latainount necessities of the revenue, is disadvantageous, and may be proved Caically t o be so, in every in s t ance i n w hi c h i t h as operated. ti an you state to the Committee, any reason why the duties on the Norway th:er s . hould not b e regu l ate d, so as to g i ve t h at t i mber a fair competition with thi nk comes from the Baltic ?—I am no t aware o f any su ffi c i ent reason ; I Is i t „ e Norway trade is entitled to be admitted fairly into the competition. while thetime, that the Norway timber is principally imported in foreign shins, Nor se , t , n nber from Russia comes principally in British ships ? I believe that the accoualtr ti from is chiefly imported in foreign ships ; but, if it should be, on that Bar rie e . eaeluded, or charged with a prohibitory duty, it seems to me that the bottorulciple would apply to excluding Swedish tar, which comes mostly in foreign \\;;; 4 i,While the Russian tar comes wholly, or nearly so, in British ships. i cael aa . ° a . ' it be easy, by laying a heavier duty upon the timber imported in the e si deraerPs , to secure, that the importation from Norway shall take place to a . con but b e „catent, at least in British shipping ?-4-That would certainly be one mode; 1.11 th e l e 've) that the British shipping need not fear a competition of foreigners 4, 40 ri g rue, and they require no protection beyond a fair countervailing duty. vi t a; you able to st a t e to the Committee, what amount of di scr i m i nat i ng d uty t a a`a have the effect of transferring that trade to British shipping, or give a fair ta,tPeation between the two ?—I am not competent to give a distinct opinion upon Point. ta, al t i e c the fact to be as stated, that the greater part of the tiniber from the w alla °lnes in foreign ships, and the greatest part from Russia in English ships, rot e ,„ You not think it adviseable to encourage the latter trade, in favour of the eeee,,,r? by a discriminating duty ?—I am rather dispo se d t o quest i on t h e po li cy o f Or 04 fur' upon the grounds stated; because, although in the first instance, dial, a superfici a l v i ew, t h ere m i ght appear to be a disadvantage by the whole Peat i e l tl ce of freight, y et i t s h ou ld seem t h at as t h e fre i ght to the foreigners must be tioe s X an exportation, direct or indirect, of sonic of our manufactures or produc be a;rit advantage to the classes connected with that increased exportation would deea lu e ast equal to the disadvantages experienced by that class which would feel the eate esi t lon of employment of the shipping. And lam not 'sure that the general 1 / a ti ee P of our trade, arising from greater facilities, and the removal of the ireita- Ikea hostility which exist, and of which we set so much the example, would give tee es att e xtension to our general trade, as would eventually afford employment to r. O at British . w%an shipping, by the general extension of trade, as would compensate proportion of increase of foreign shipping in the case alluded to. !b a ,st, Paesent price of American timber being 31. ss. if 15s. duty were added to al ting the then price 41. and the present price of Baltic timber being 61. ss. ope l Y i as taken from that, leaving the price 51. 10s. in what proportion are ycu ees e4 e l. l l sZ! , if such alteration in the duties should take place, the consumption of L ' ' rte of timber for the purposes for which it is most applicable would be asauee l i - • - • I cannot speak to the effects upon the consumption, not being sufficiently `a a l tsee t sl e d. with the details of the timber trade ; but I should suppose that . the i l s ,Pase L a tic a of American timber is depressed below its fair proportion of quality, taken with that from the Baltic, iii consequence of th e grea t i mportation t h at Che elt er I ,dace from America, being chiefly brought fo rwar d by a specu l a ti on on er e'a ti t'a that is expected in the arrangement of the duties ; and the Baltic when e il allee in rather smaller quantity from the very same speculation ; there -0 bo u "'e duties are fixed upon a scale that shall remove some part of the ex ile, and Il tY in favour of the American timber, the reduced importation of the Pee s _ th e • . .'1 port ion of nicreased importation of the other, will bring them to a much nearer 'erie - Price in the market, and I should think, would still admit of the 411 CQU • • f • ling into air competition. -r take ) , ° nr opinion of 30s. differ6nce in the present rate of duty, whether laid on ,r' fr o e t fo at anfr : is not founded upon a calculation on the present prices ?—No, it is a _ eta Ic e d on a calculation on the present prices ; for, in my view of the probable ' be - 1 the expectation that the quality, and the imperfe . ct squarbT of laroseel,an America, which has hitherto been very much complained of, will be Ar e ln order to admit its bearing the increased charges. co unt you aware of the present price of freight of timber from Memel to this a'eat D er • - -Prom twenty sh i ll i ngs to twenty one shillings the ' lead, through the Ir art of 1 4- Vc aseyear: a an . he examination of a price current of timber during the years 1817 and le u ..cl us l „a • aing Which time the shipping of this country was reduced employmeet ratbaas, and the importation of Amelican timber was reduced . to a more fair nger :ai o at present, and you discover at that time, that the best suits of American delis Baltic regular difference of from ten to fifteen shillings, when compared fdee tiniber, or with the timber from Memel, would you infer, that Was If air ' sa re c rl e c e lv in price arising from the comparative estimate of their different value ? Presumption that such was the relative quality. 1, [Adjourned to to-morrow, at one o'clock.] The ComMittee would be glad if you would state the grounds on which you form that opinion ?—I ground my opinion on the evidence before the Lords Committee, Confirmed by what has occurred within the range of my own observation. My house is the largest importer of the more valuable articles of Russia produce, and for the purpose of conveying it, I am in the habit of chartering ships to the extent of from 12 to 14,000 tons annually ; in no instance, however, has it happened that any Russian ship has been offered to me since the year 1814 on terms so cheap as those of British ships. .1 likewise annually charter a'British ship, in consequence of orders from a correspondent at Dunkirk, for the conveyance of a cargo of hemp from Petersburg thither, as being cheaper on the whole than by a French vessel, although there is an extra duty of about 'Jc. Gd. per ton on the hemp, and higher port charges on the ship, in consequence of not being of French origin. In 1817 I chartered a British ship, to convey a cargo of tallow from Petersburg to Rot terdam, as being cheaper.than by a Dutch vessel ; and last year, having it in contemplation to ship some wheat from Petersburg to Holland, I enquired the terns upon which Dutch ships could be chartered in Holland for the purpose, and I found that they were as nearly as possible the same as by British ships : but this equality was merely in consequence of the port charges being lower on a Dutch ship. If the port charges were the same, the freight of the British ship would be proportionably lower. The shipment did not take place ; but if it had, it would have been in British ships, as being the cheaper upon the whole, including the tower insurance, and the greater expedition, and other grounds of preference, which are very obvious, in favour of a British ship. I have no hesitation in adding, as the result of the information I have obtained ) that if I had occasion to make any equipment of article's of Russia produce from Petersburg to Dutch ports, I would give the preference to British, at the present relative rate of freights. My house has of late, as indeed in most years, had occasion to ship hemp and flax from hence to ports in France, Portugal and Spain, and cordage to the Brazils, and I have, with scarcely an exception, found the conveyance by British cheaper than 'by any foreigners, althoughthe British are in some cases liable to heavier expenses in the ports of discharge, than vessels belonging to the foreign state. lam now shipping some hemp to New York, and could readily get a British ship to take it at a freight of 21.105. a ton, but the American navigation laws, which are a coun terpart of ours, prevent it, and I have been obliged to give 31. 10s. a ton to a second-class American ship for it. Other houses, I understand, have paid as high as 41. If, then, the shipping of this country is thus able to.maintain the competition to foreign ports, without protection inUny instances, and with heavier expenses of port charges in most case s in th e plac e of discharge, subject moreover to heavy direct taxes on the materials of ship-building, particularly on timber, there seems to be little reason to apprehend any great increase of employment of foreign shipping in importations to this country, where they are subject to_heavier port charges, and the cargoes to extra dutice. And it is still less to be appre hended, if, by a reduction in the duty on Amber, this most important of all the materials of ship-building become cheaper. Do not those observations principally apply to ships which are taken to carry cargoes of considerable value ? The articles to which 1 have alluded, namely, hemp and flax, may be considered to be valuable as compared with timber ; but of very inferior value compared with cargoes of manufactured goods and colonial produce. Are not an inferior description of ships capable of conveying the timber ?—Yes. Are not those ships likely to be found in Denmark, Norway and Sweden ? Not, I should apprehend, in any considerable numbers, to meet any extra demand for timber in consequence of additional encouragement to the importation from the European ports. _ Then your observation does not apply to those ships as ship„ but in consequence of there not being a sufficient number to meet the demand ?—I rely upon the evidence before the Lords Committee to justify the opinion, that no new ships, to any extent, are likely to be constructed, at any thing like the present freights, to Imeet an increased demand for the importation of timber. If there was an increased demand for the importation of timber from the ports in the North, would not the price of freights rise ?—By the supposition of a pro portion of British shipping being thrown out of employment by the diminution of the importation from America, it is to be presumed that freights would not advance in any material degree; and I beg leave to observe, in reference to the question of the employment of foreign and British ships in the wood trade from the Baltic, that in 1319, the number of ships declared inwards to Memel were 268 British, 153 Prussian, 270 Dutch, Swedish, French, &c. together 691 ships cleared inward. Of these the whole of the British vessels departed with cargoes, but of the Prussians, being as above 153 in number, about4o laid up for the winter, 80 went to Holland, remained 33; to these add the number which wintered in 1818-19, making 30 ships, leave 63 ships under the Prussian flag which went to Great Britain, or about one to four to the number of British. Do you think, that while the British shipping is in the situation in which it is at present, that there could be any inducement to foreign states to build ships for,the purpose of carrying on any trade that may be created ?—I should think not. Do you happen to know whether, within the last few years, in point of fact, ships have been built in those countries to any extent? —I cannot speak positively to the fact ; but I infer from the information of parties concerned in those trades, that there has been a diminution in the quantity of shipping in those parts. By the diminution in the quantity of shipping, have those ships, which have been worn out, been replaced by ships newly built ?—Not fully replaced, as I understand. You have suggested, as a compensation to British shipping, when in competition with the shipping in Norway, and other nations in the north of Europe, that a tonnage duty should be laid on the ships of those countries equal to the direct taxes in this country on the materials for shipbuilding; thus taking a part of the first cost of the British ship, as the rule to be applied to the rate to be levied for each voyage on the foreign ship ; as for instance, supposing that the difference of cost, . from those causes, of a British ship, amounted to 51. a ton, how would you propose to distribute this sum on the various voyages of the foreign ship which she might or might not be engaged to make in competition with the British ships This is a calculation which shipbuilders and shipowners, and brokers may, I should imagine, be able to make ; - but which lam not prepared with at present: I willing to admit that there maybe complexity; .and perhaps uncertainty in such a calculation, but it may afford some approximation to an equitable rate. At the same time there can be (to doubt, - but that . a repeal of the duties altogether, upon the timber employedin the construction of ships, would be very much preferable ; and in such case I should expect, that British shipping would be enabled to obtain very far the greater part of the carrying trade of the commercial world. ,Supposing that the principle laid down by you - was found practicable and adopted, ought it not to be extended .to the additional cost of the stores necessary for .the outfit of the British ship on each voyage respectively, whether of British or foreign production, as well as the difference in the amount of the seamen's wages ?—.lt is only in as far as the increased cost of outfit can be ascribed to direct taxation that it should- be included in the calculation. The Committee understand you to have stated, that British ships in the trade with Russia obtain a preference over those of Russia in the ports of that country, can you inform the Committee, whether or net British ships so employed, are pro ductive of profit to their owners ?--I am concerned as'a part-owner in only one ship, which ship has been navigated at the current freights; and I can only say, that by the economy and activity of the managing owner, it so happens that she has made money each season, at the very lowest frieghts at which vessels have been chartered from this port. We have had a dividend each year, more or less. When you say, each year you have received a dividend, more or less, can you state to the Committee the average extent of that dividend ?—I cannot from memory. In receiving those dividends, have you taken into conside r ati o n the natural de preciation in the value of the ship ?—I cannot speak without a reference to the accounts. Mortis, 20 die Februarii, 1821. Tile Ri g ht Honourable TilomAs WALLACE i n th e c h a i r . Th e Thomas Tookc, Esq. again called in, ancl.further examined. ~ ~, btif)ll,..k..otrunittee understanding that you are desirous of giving a further cApt,..- * ow -r1 reference to one of the questions put to you yesterday, the Conitni.tee th e "`_ , K)e glad to repeat the question t 3 you, which is, " Are you able to state to tetri,oiamittee what amount of discriminating duty would have the eff ec t of trans ,„litght,he trade to British shipping, or - give a fair competition between the two ?" th at (1 ,- , lgu I must repeat, that I am not competent to state what the quan m„t I.Zrtliitninating duty should be, it occurs to me that there is a rule of theut authorities"; a PPlicabl e to such a case, namely, to determine, from the competent direct t ,_s_ the extra. expense attaching to ship-building in this country, from the the of l'essel. ~ i ' S on the materials, and to compute the amount on the tonnage i , strictly a 4 extra Charge to this extent on the tonnage of the foreign . vesse wouldvessels hieh ott countervailing duty., and would have nothing of the invidious character e ildl esa i r restricti :n e d an c d ot prohi bitory . system , poses t s t e o s, su an c _d i has given rise to I ha ve ri nl itatio s f0,e4,01:, doubtsh Brititsheshil w a h c i o c u h nteryailing duty, restraints. Subjec to a1,,,t, s Lind I:ut ve • 1 h 'e no reas • on r 3, shipping maintain a successful competition with ` h 1 " " e ll(' the thr 1 1 ~ Iv to think that we should at ith this si 7 °win g °Or ports generally open to all importation in foreign I ng,e r . ecaution. , 1 Has not this particular ship, from the extensive and important connections of your establishment, obtained advantages in the outward as well as homeward freight, which do not fall to the lOt of shipping in general, engaged in that trade?— Possibly she may, but not to any material extent, as the freight has always been at the lowest of the then competition. Has she not, in such cases 'of competition, obtained'a preference ?—A prefer ence at the lowest freights. And whilst she thus obtained outwaid freight, were not many other ships going at the same time in ballast ?-111y house ships very little to Russia, and it has not been once in a dozen voyages that she has had any goods outwards, of any consez quence, from my house,. Speaking generally, are there not more British ships that oiler for freight in the Baltic' than employment can be found for them?.-L-That is. a question of freight : I should observe, that in .1818 I had very great difficulty indeed, in getting the requisite quantity of tonnage; and indeed, it rather fell short of my intended im portation, from the inability to get it, without a more considerable advance in freight than the goods would have borne. Did this circumstance mem' at any particular season?—Through the whole season of 1818 ; there might. be short intervals, in which the demand was not so great. In point of fact, how has it been in 1819 and in 18' 7 0 ?,--Ncither in 1819, nor in 1820 were the freights of those ships that I chartered lower than they were in 1816, and the early part of 1817. Bet in point of fact, has there not been a greater number of British ships seek ing employ in 1819 and 1820 than could 'find it ?—That is a question of freight ; and the chartered freights were not lower last year ,than iiv 1816. When you were desirous to charter one ship, could you not, with equal facility, have obtained two, had you desired it ?—Yes, but not at lower freights than in 1816, and the beginning of 1817. Is the fact not within your knowledge, that there has been, during the last two seasons, a considerable surplus of Britisl; shipping at Cronstadt seeking freight, beyond what could find immediate employment ?—Yes, there was a stuplus of seeking-ships as they are termed ; but I have seldom, with the exception of 1818, known a season of late years, in which that has'not been the case You have stated to the Committee, that of - the Prussian ships employed from the port of .. .Memel, of late years, only a small prop6rtion of them have come to this country, but that the greater part have traded ,with Holland; do you know, whether the whole" f the Prussian ships, belonging to or resorting to that poet, were not employed am not, from immediate experience or connexion in business, ac quainted with any further detail, relative to shipping in that port,; cannot, therefore, answer that question. You stated to the Committee, that on a late occasion you were obliged to pay 70s. a ton for freight in an American ship from hence to New York, whereas a British ship might have been engaged at 505.; supposing that the article had been one of British production, and therefore open to be carried in the shipping of either nation, would it not have been in that case taken at equally a l o w freight in the American as i n th e British ship ?—I cannot say, having had no occasion to snake enquiry. Were there American ships" in competition for the freight of hemp at the time you applied for the tonna ge ? —Of course the terms I have mentioned imply a scarcity of American shipping, ru proportion to the demand, compared with British shipping. Are you aware, that seven-eighths of the trade carried on from Liverpool with the United States of America, is carried on in American ships, and not above OF THIS ATIS. one-eighth in British ? I was not before aware of it to such an extent. I knew that the pFapartion was considerable. Does it not, in point of fact, follow, where shipping of one country has no pre ference from additional duties or charges over the ships of other countries, that the American ships must be able to carry a freight on terms more favourable to the charterers to obtain such preference ? There may be peculiarities in the nature of the trade which may compensate to the shippers for the higher rate of freight, such as the proprietor of the cargoes being connected with the ownership of the vessels ; at the same time I cannot speak with any precision upon the question of American shipping, having only an impression from general information, that they are not navigated at a lower expence than British. Do you happen to know, that English ships, seeking fizr . employment in America, are under peculiar difficulties as compared with American ships ? lam not sufficiently acquainted with the nature of the American trade in America to answer that. Do not the prejudices against out restrictive system, which you say have pro duced an unfavourable disposition against us in the minds of the Russian govern ment, extend to other points besides the duty on their timber ? Yes ; I believe that our exclusion of their linens is considered in a more invidious light than even our high duties upon their timber. Was not a great deal of dissatisfaction expressed at the Polish Diet last sum mer, on the restrictions put by the government of this country on the importation of Polish corn ? I believe that our prohibition of foreign corn, under the present bill, is very obnoxious to the powers of Russia and Prussia. Would not, then, a reduction of the duty of timber be chiefly valuable, as a 'hoof that we are no longer anxious to uphold our present system of restriction, amounting to a prohibition of the 'productions of other countries? As far as relates to Russia that might be the case ; at the same time I would add, that there are some of the minor ports of Russia in the Baltic and in the White Sea, where the exportation of deals forms nearly the whole of their trade, and therefore it is an object of more importance, probably, to the government than the mere pecu niary value of the article in question. In your opinion, would a reduction in the duty on the article of timber alone remove that unfavourable disposition which you say is entertained against us, unless followed by the removal of the restrictions upon the other articles ? It would contribute' to such an effect chiefly as an earnest of a more liberal system. What is the comparative export of linen, corn, and wood, from the northern powers of the Baltic, in point of value, on an average of years? I will endeavour to obtain it for the committee. From the general knowledge which you have of the trade of the country, and particularly of that branch of it, the carrying trade, have you any reason to sup pose that the shipping interest has been as successful, generally speaking, as that ship to which you have particularly alluded, as belonging to yourself ? Perhaps not : but with severe economy and activity and prudence in the management, 1 should suppose that in a great proportion of instances they may have made a bare livelihood. Do you know the selling prices which northern timber has borne in this country for the last twenty years? I will endeavour to prepare a statement, to lay before the committee. What number of voyages do ships usually make between the principal ex porting ports of timber in 'Russia and London, in the course of the season ? Be tween St. Petersburg and London they make generally two voyages; sometimes, but rarely, three. From Riga they may, if there be any adequate object for it, make three voyages ; but Ido not believe, in point of fact, that they often make more than two. From Archangel and Onega, one voyage. What proportion of the timber is carried on from Archangel and Onega, com pared with St. Petersburg and Riga? I should think it is about one-fifth, com pared with a total of the Russian ports in the Baltic. How many voyages do the ships make, which are employed in the timber trade between Prussia and this country ? I cannot speak from personal knowledge re specting the trade with Prussia, Can you speak to Norway and Sweden? No, nor to Norway and Sweden. _ _ . .. Have you made out a statement of the rate of freights outward, from the ports of America and the ports of the Baltic to London, during the last year; and also of those engagements, as far as made to your knowledge, in this present year ? I have. [ It was delivered in, and read.] " In 1820 : The freights from Quebec to London, or the ports in the English Channel, were :- 475. Gd. per load, for pine timber. 50s. to 525. 6d. per load, for oak timber. 71. ss. to 71. 10s. per standard hundred, for deals. Staves, 121. to 151. per mile, for broken stowage, and two-thirds port charges, or 5 per cent. From Miramichi, Picton John's, or St. Andrew's, to London, &c. 40s. to 425. per load, for timber : Broken stowage, in proportion thereto, and two-thirds port-charges, or 5 per cent. The Baltic freights to London were:- Memel.-For timber, 20s. to 21s. per load ; deals, 31. to 31. ss. per standard hundred, and .5 per cent. Dantzig timber, 225. ; deals, 31. 10s. per standard hundred, and 10 per cent. Riga timber, '24s. to 235. per load ; deals, 31. 15s. to '3l. 10s. per standard hundred, and 5 per cent. St. Petersburg.-Deals, 41. to 31. 15s. per standard hundred. No timber im ported ; but the freight would have been 255. to 265. per load, and 5 per cent, "In 1821: Quebec.—A few ships have been taken up this year to load, chiefly deals, at 71. ss. down to 71. per standard hundred, and 5 per cent.; more could be got on the same terms, or 475. Gd. per load for timber, and might perhaps be prevailed upon to take 455. but at a greater reduction it would not pay. Picton St. John's, or St. Andrew's.—Ships would go at 40s. and 5 per cent. perhaps a few might take 375. Gd. per load; but that is ques. tiOnable. Mernel.—Ships have fixed at 20s. Gd. and 20s. per load, and 5 per cent.: no expectation that they can go lower. Dantzig.—The merchants offer 21s. and 71 per cent. hardly adequate to the ex- pences of that port. Riga, or St. Petersburg.,--Yet too early ; but the freights cannot well be lower than last year, or at most a trifle. • The ship-owners find one Quebec freight to be made in about the same time as two voyages to Memel, and to pay better; as although the wear and tear may be greater in crossing the Atlantic, yet the difference of expellee in only one loading and discharging, besides saving twice port charges, makes the American trade the most profitable. In short Baltic trips, the expenses of the port of London in tonnage dues", dock dues, tice. is severely felt, and deters many from sending their ships to Memel, &c." 19 February, 1821. Can you inform the committee what was the current price of timber of good quality at Memel, during the last year ? Not precisely. I have, however, un derstood that it .varied according to quality, from 225. to 28s. and even to 30s. Can you give the committee information of what was the current price at Riga ? From 30s. to 40s. on board. A t Dantzig ? I cannot say. •In Nor Way ? 'Nor any where else. _ . _ Are you acquainted with the extent of the exports from Riga, Archangel, and PeterSburg ? I have a statement to that effect, which is as follows : 1 t `# fix , T 1 t -4 ttl't 1-3 1 I : 2 1-r r ,: .2- = - F.T.aeTs 3 c, 0 . . . ~. 5 aER. . 2 . i &7_ -tiTi Z p _' , 1 1 ..3 ° ..... ..- .2 l ,•=lW C ) r) L - r F. ,-• -4 ) - 2 .. I ~,,, ,x x --"- .. f,-; ' ...../...., 5 n - tr. 4 , 2 I ..- j iii: tI I I I lii I , , •-• , , ,7,. =, =, 6 ' r ' 2 0 F-4 ' I 73 I I gt, Eid f‘-: i 1 1 1 1 -,- 7 CA • C/2 C/2 C/2 -- c. to 0 C Cr. h: 40 •-• ...-* t-. LI, ND Irt ID - C..) 1.0 7 0Th '4, 1.-.. Z. - 00 k '1.4 10 0: :4 0-4 - CD QD '4 40 1, .- CD CD cn tn 0.) c:t) c. —. .A. Qt ND .4 CD CP t° 'V to .4 Ct <D C en ed. c 4 -4 co a. CD ND .--?3 4. '2 tO .7 7 Oc ~.. CC 01 , 0 OP W IN 7 Izcabl4Cl....Cobs'lslot.:lpmC4 , ZaColD ' 4 CI , CI J- C7l C 2 CO O, C'4 , 4 42 Cr) C 44 , 4 , 4 C. CD O.) C 2 C 2 Za• 00 CO cn 4 , C 3 — 4 CO d( 5.4 01 '4 "4 4. 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G 4 40 i... ,4 :. c. a.: wc...9 oo Vi L .° , 4 4,6 C C 7 CCCn Average quantity of Standard Deals for 7 years Average annual Export Irons Onega - ' - - 20 cargoes, each of I 2,000 Standard Deals - Wyberg. and other ports in Finland, 40 l)o. Do. Narva - .. .. '2O Do. Do. Standard Deals 3,060,64'2 Equal to 250 cargoes, of 12,000 Standard Deals each, of Masts, Bowsprits, Spars and Timber ; about 50 cargoes may be considered the annual average Ex port from Riga. 1820: St. Petersburg - Standard Deals Riga Do. 243,750 Archangel lio. 514,520 John Caldwell, Esquire, called in, and examined. Will you be pleased to state in what capacity you appear before the com mittee ? As a landholder in Canada. Do you not hold some r t ublic situation there ? 1 am a member of the Legis lative Council, and receiver-general of the province. Have you been long a resident in Canada ? Yes ; I was born in Canada. ' And you have generally resided there ? Yes ; the greater portion of my life. You are a proprietor to a considerable extent? I have, I suppose, three or four hundred thousand acres. I have, besides others, one property opposite Quebec, six leagues by six. Are you a large proprietor of timber ? I have a great deal upon my estate. Do you consider the proprietors of land as deriving great advantage from the wood trade, speaking as a proprietor ? Generally, I do. I wish to state, more particularly, the kind of wood in which the proprietors are particularly interested. I conceive, that all the proprietors of land in Lower Canada have particular interest in the question as respects the spruce timber, as there is scarcely a landholder or farmer who has not more or less of that description of timber on his property; and which is available to the market either by its being near to the St. Laurence, or DAY. otd4 t - !tt*l-irxi•-i- ~,I g.V()121-3E-gtg-11L3',1 . "111 . 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