The Sun. — London, England, 1839-02-22 00:00:00

SOUTHMARK ELECTION. - I Last evenin g a mee ti ng was h e ld o f t h e S out h wark Reform I il asociation, in the London Bridge Hotel. At eight o'clock .the Chair was taken by EMMANUFL Loor ea , E s e . ts , who said they had assembled to 'leer from Mr. aavey whether he was vet in the position of eepreseetative for the borough of Southwark ; and if the answer should be in the - negatiee, to consider what steps it behoved them to take in order to secure his re-election. Ile for one was eel fectly satisfied with Mr. Harvey's conduct—(Applau , e)—and if it were necessary, would do all in his power to forward so desirable an e nd. Ire would not detain tee meeting ; as they must be all , anxious to hear the Hon. Gentleman—he was assured he might me, worthy candidate. Mr. Weaver then rose and was rec ived with cheers. He said, although all present were pretty nearly as well acquainted with the facts whidi had led to the decision of that day, it might pr o b a bl y tier. At e b e as w e ll th a t th e y were s t a t e d i n a b r i e f man through :le expiration of last Se ss ion the Go ver nm e nt, Lord John Rus ssu ll, i n a ver y ki n d an d h an d some man 11e '', made him an offer of a situation, to which he wa• not disinclined to listen ; but before he stated the qualified circum stances unde r which he had listened to the offer, he would state ,th•at some mont h s prev i ously an overture had been made to n la by the Foreign S ecre t ar y o f st a t e , g i v i ng hi m the of f er of a consular appointment in the United States. lie had never concealed either from his private or political friends, that in consequence of the persecution to which he had had been Subjected he was inclined to listen to any overture to accept an honourable situation, one of usefulness to his country, which was adequately rewarded ; but at the same time he had always been determined he would accept of no office which should under any circumstances prevent him from acting, as he had always hitherto done, conscientiously._ (Cheers.) He had always determined to accept of no office that would prevent, in the slightest degree, the free exercise of his judgment, or would render it in any way necessary for him to conceal his opinion upon any subject.—(Cheers.) Though he was offered the Consulship of Boston, with a reversion of th e Co nsu l -Generalship at 'New York , which would have been one : Of honor and emolument, yet he declined the offer because the ac , eeptin g of it would have separated him from his political con nections an d f r i en d s—and he also felt that it y as not a situa tints which coriespunded with his pretensions as the re- P r esentative of the borough of Southwark. When tl.e other office was offered he was the very first to guard, 1• M the most cautious manner, again.t his acceptam e of ' it bein g cons i dered as t h , slightest tye tipun his free ' s ex Pression of opinion, or that because he acc epted t e t te Once, therefor e h e was to b e com p e ll e d t o su p por t ere es srnment. Lord J. Russell at •nce, and in the most hand tone manner, replied that the office was not a political one, nor 0 .1 it enjoi n any po li t i ca l obl i gation. At the moment it was offered he was not without apprehension that his acceptance of the office might be involved in legal difficulties—not from any apprehen s i on of appealing to his constituents, but that he knew hat every point would be strained against him.—( Hear, hear.) He therefore at once told Lord John Russell that if the place were tenable with his seat, and the duties not Positively uninviting of themselves, he would accept it, and that he would at once apply to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the Chilt ern H un d re d s, so that his constituents should have the power to say whether he had d one r i g ht or wro ng.— (Cheers.) He applied to the Attorney-Genera', who told hint (and repeated it in a letter to Lord J. Russell) that the office did not come within the statute of Anne, and that, there 'ore, there was no necessity fora new election. Notwithstanding that opinion, as there was doubt upon the point, he at once de clared to L or d John Russell that until the point was settled he would do the duties of the office, but that he would accept of no salary. It might very reasonably be asked why he had hav ing th e off i ce with those doubts hanging about it, and accepted it, why did he resign it without facing his con gauents. A s t o t h e res i gnat i on of the office, uninviting as it a, in et ere c t er , t h oug h useful as a matter of metro te,"tan police, he at once frankly owned that, considering e had b een in Parliament for twenty years, and the more espe cially as the representative of the great constituency of South wark, and having taken no slight part in the discussions SAfilell the whole of that time delivered his opinions with freedom and s Meerity ; and looking at the complexion of the public men of th - present day, he did not conceal from himself that if he was en titled to any office at all, he was entitled to a higher one than t d hat of th e mere Registrar of Hackney Carriages and Cab riv,ers•—( Cheers an d l aug ht er. ) Th en , w h y did h e acce pt it at all ? They were not unaware of the persevering persecutions 7hich f or a number of years he had suffered from the legal pre "'ion —they h a d not on l y d epr i ve d hi m of t h e opportunity o f establishing himself at the bar, but for a great number of Years the party had been trying all means to establish an a l )t nion that no Government dared give him office, and, therefore, he was determined to take any office what ever ?!' that wou ld not degrade him and his constituents. ad he been as certain of the result as he then was, acting U pon that feeling he would have pursued exactly the same course ,he had done, because he deemed the waste of six months in he public service without reward, which six months, might 9hive been more pleasantly spent in recruiting his health 5 n decidi ng upon some thousands of coach and cabmen ' s ai n's, as of no moment when compared with the higher object he had in view. The question had been brought before the House, but he would ask had it been done in a Pure and h onoura b le spirit ?—( Laughter.) Had it been so Ile ould not h ave care d f or t h e i nconven i ence he had been put to. But he had no hesitation in saying, that it did not originate in any such pure spirit.—(Cheers.) He had enumerated many !a, s a es the o th er evening to the House, in which he had shown ` i n t many m em b ers o f t h e H ouse had accepted off i ce u o th during the last and the p resen t S ess i on , ye t th ey re tained their seats, and nothing was said on the matter. As One instance of great reward with little labour, he would give them that of Sir H. Parnell. He was in one well-paid office, one in which the country was entitled to his whole time, yet he Was appointed one of a Commission to enquire into the .working of our fiscal duties in the departments of Cus toms and , Excise. This was said to be an Honorary Commission. The Members of Parliament, on which were no t to receive any pay. Sir Henry was receiving pay for ano ther office, which, demanded all his time, yet he was put on a 'Commission, in which it was to be presumed there would be Considerable labour—he was a hired servant of the public, who Paid him. Well, 2,0001. was voted for this Commission, of Which he took his share, and still retained his scat.— :(Loud cries of Hear, hear.) No notice whatever was taken of this case, either from pure love of regularity, or any other pure tnot ive.—(Cheers.) He had accepted the office upon the ex- Prass understanding that he was to receive no salary, yet they t a to him that they would force him to take the salary now, , 'ante that having accepted the office, he had accepted '• t With all its contingencies. Again there were the cases t e A ir. Hodges, the Member for Rochester, one of the ~,, is t Men in the House, and of M. Shaw Lefevre, who We as closely connected with the Government. 'They e l '? Put into a Commission to inquire into the highways. They mi re not be paid for it, but they were both largely interested I)l i tn ei d : and of course, though their labours might be very . be lle --.44 and necess ar still they of course were deely mhtaed rested in all highways and byeways, and the effect the t ru the county-rate, and the manner in which the peor s-rate acrected their interest, all this of course was interesting to them b: hedaw, according to the decision of that day, were to - to all indiscriminately, then Hodges had as much lost his e - ate as Harvey had done, for taking a hard-working office, and no reward. Then take the case of Mr. Wynn himself. It sPared that ever since the year 1796 he had been in possession disome office—a steward, or constable, or something of Den : gh—where he had small pay, great honour, and political tvrintages and no duties. Though in London the people j e (iel d upon him as merely Mr. Wynn, it was very different f '', t ne county, there the ignorant vassals would clear the way w-i. the High Steward much in the fashion those he addressed ould do to her Majesty when issuing from the marble gate :7. her Palace. The office was one very useful to the Wynn 1: 1 4 : 1 ! 1 .), and accordingly they were not long in nosing it for . ee Y not yet of togge, because Mr. Wynn would be very angry if .:.7.Y.orie were say he was more than sixty-two years of age, u- ng he had filled the office for forty- three years. Well, it ap- Pelesred that he held the office quietly through the reign of s , e , 111. Now upon the demise of the Crown all places fall t lav inell are held during pleasure ; accordingly, his office of reeeward ceased. There were fees to be paid upon a eeneveal, and theress was - - also a, heavy stamp' duty, the Air. w ,,, - eares se i r nothing of these, and he goes on filling le.. ei fiee without any legal right, through as reigns of George at and William IV% ' 'There was Mr. Wynn creeping and it T e in g round thelreaiery yearly for his 401.--(Laughter) r_ r i. very moment that feu was yearly cheating the Revenue. r es • forty Tearsa•iientl and' this eminent and disinterested upwards coon e man does nothing but receive 1,6001. of the people's man for doing nothing but for nearly forty years cheat ring t he Revenue of its dues.—(Loud laughter.) The esentQte en came to the Th rone an d d own aga i n goes M r . thL Yan to the Treasury for his 401., and it was to th credit of ces s t r i eser t it Government that they said, " Why your office has coms, -- ue 4 . l ow your patent; it is not quite sure that , you can l ' e neya th in the office, therefore we cannot pay you. But ha 'new at S Pring Rice was Chancellos of the Exeheraier—he men tte.ihmatt they had formerly sat on the same benches, therefot e to use a common expression, evengea'' his late protegees " It was all right."—(Laughter.) knew "P r ing Rice was Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he , that had the cases been reversed that he would have been e_alt right," and therefore the place was at once promised to i e n Mtinued, but at the same time it was necessary that there s .snould be a new patent. In the mean time he had been elected, (land be that the office would vacate his seat, and send him w r e n . lain amon 1 ' b y h cuspocu- in the Heme lgstiis v a ssa ls, some o et he ets the deed ante-dated before the election—fraudu !ntle ;„ fli,, to law, and not creditably in fact. But it was in the ei —s e of Commons as it was in our Courts of Law—in that "se there was one decision for a party man, and another for t:e Who had co party but the people.—(Cheers.) Had he H e n married to the tenth cousin of some Noble Lord or h nnourable Gentleman belonging to the Cabinet, or L ad he even been connected with one who could not h ave claimed such a legitimate relationship with any of them, t hey would have found the adherents of Government sum- Noned to defeat Mr. Wynn, though it was even doubtful W hether that pure-minded gentleman would, under such cir cumstances, hav e b roug h t i t forward. The Attorney-General t • anxio us l y an d care f u ll y looked through the Statute of Anne, and h e office in question did no t come at a ll w ithi n it s p rov i s i ons . • ehad been told that d a y, that had he voted once or twice a g ai nst the Government, hat in the morning he might have r , e i e,_ . eived a n o t e f rom L ord J. Russell, stating that the dut i es of .. 7. e Office were too much for his health, and that, in considera rn thereof, h e h a d exonerated him from perform i ng t h em any oenger. His answer w as , th a t h e wou ld like to see the Secretary w, M ate who w ou ld d are to act so un d er suc h c i rcums t ances . H e , se as . anito certain that Lord John Russell was incapable of doing e i but it s eeme d t h at such was st il l to b e t h e T ory pl an , be lns° they were his info r ma n ts that day. It was an office e e at e d r , ay a Ref P ormed arliaste nt with du —an office not of Of ''''" , n, but ef the people, ties attached h an ardu ous nature. If th e resu lt of his case i t.ould b e not that the Person accepting office should be te'squalified, but that in all cases he should be sent back to his moettnatti t tu i, e . ets for their approbation, lie would not for one me he, "lnk of the personal inconvenience, and he trusted t hat jelate constituents would not care fur their share of the trouble tablishing so very principle.—(Cheers.) ile.—( Cheers. ) Those • important a pie s li e , "ho agreed with him in thinking that the Par e. -e nts were too 1 nes would—all who thought with ;i n ' , that every one --, whes took office, or who at a" that ttient tou c h ed the public money should face his consti- f sue , s wou ld — rejoice with him in the establishment Ri o courseu principle in his person.—(Cheers.) That was tae cid e e lie fully intended to have pursued had it been de , that it was competent fur him to hold both the office arid el e se at. It was most gratifying to him, that notwithstanding jourinnaa,nifold villanies of the Press, that not one of the London It ie .,. a had expressed one word against his fitness for office. organs s true some of the most base and violent of the Tory ( A;_ e ns had attacked other parties for the paltriness of the o“totcofvs,.icli was given him—that was the meanness et' others, L e e ee n im ; and it was indeed gratifying that not one of them het fur said one word against his fitness for any situation. 0 the trouble thrown upon his constituents, he would ky b e _ fr ele, en glad of the decision the House had come to—his iiei Zsts of mortification at the result did not arise from any per eenst homey, but he regretted the trouble thrown upon his its e heen nY, the greater part of whom he knew to be engaged . .._ .,.. re heavy but also very useful occupations. He trusted, ni, s. ever, that those who thought with him chat Parliaments St Int to be shorter in their duration, would not be displeased e b isa aving an opportunity of again exercising the elective fran r, -• He would give a short history as far as he knew of the s •fi e , ce e edings of the Committee. They met for the first time on ae' e a u V:i•aYe and only five member; were present nut of the 15 ; they • , sse the various euestiens that - ere to come before them, I resolved them into five, anu then sent • hem te the remainder of ...._ ' the Members. They met again that day to discuss the Report. At no time were there more than eight Members present, and as they thought proper in their judg ment to eXclude him as a party interested, he of course did not know the grounds en which they had decided except from hearsay. However they intimated to him the result with such soothing sympathy as is generally as sumed when parties have unpleasant intelligence to communi cate•—( Laughter.) They were very sorry forsooth—they were very willing to let him fall as gently as possible—they were very - willing: to bring up tl.e report Ihat day, or to keep it for a day or two, as might. lee most agreeable to him ; but he to'd them not to de , .y 'he execution, but let it. issue instantly. At cordingly, th.• result was brought up, anti the 'consequ, nee of no oppositi .n b, ing offered to it was, that a new writ was ordered to be issued. Ith.ity Members who had before prais, d him for the independence of his conduct, now said what a pity it was he did not keep the place. So it was with the world. Now, had he kept that place, it would have been in everybody's mouth—" Who new can we trust ?—there is Harvey, who for five and twenty years has been talkieg louder than any one else of purity and independence—he has now deserted those who stuck to him in adversity for the sake of 8001. a year." He had always pursued one cour s e during his l:fe, and he was sure he would have all reflecting men on his side, but they were the great minority of mankind. In all his actions he wanted only the sanction of his own conscience ; if he had that he was rich, and cared little for the opinion of others. He would indeed be very sorry if, after a service of twenty years in the House, and of ten more strug gling in the cause of the people, he could be capable of accept ing any place that was not worthy of his own services, and of the representative of Sou,hwark. His own con duct upon this a., .d every other occasion had the sanction of his consc . tnee, and he hoped that it would also meet with the sanction of his late constituents. He would therefore leave his cause in their hands, ready to do as they pleased. If he were to pursue his own wishes, he would to morrow drop the curtain upon public affairs, for the country was now so divided, that there was no satisfaction whatever, even when a man had done Isis best according to his tr,vit conscience for the people. He was not, however, prepared to be driven from the field.—( Loud cheers.) He had fought the good fight, and he would continue it to the end. Everything appeared at present to be still, but they must not be caught asleep. Ile had received a letter from a friend, from one of Mr. Wakley's District Committee-rooms, in which it was stated that a letter had reached the Secretary—he did not write " honcrary" before his name, be believed—( A laugh )—but it was telling him not to despair, for the clerks, and secretaries, and coachmen, and all others who delighted in a general election, would have plenty of work over the water next week, for the Tory gold would fly about.—( A laugh.) There was not the slightest doubt that Mr. Croucher had received a " retainer."—( A laugh.) He was glad that a gentleman would present himself who had a right to boast more of his gold than any other qualification. Let the Reformers organize, and the result would be what they wished. He rather wished that some such person, with such a qualification, would come forward, for he would find that however much of Tory gold he might have, the borough of Southwark was no market for it. The Honourable Gentleman, who had been loudly cheered throughout his address, then sat down. The Meeting was subsequently very shortly addressed by Messrs. Con N TEuLON, and other gentlemen, and resolutions were unanimously passed declaring that. Mr. Harvey having lost his sear in the House of Com mons in consequence of the political integrity and indepen dence,it was the duty of the constituents to reinstate him in that situa•ion free of expense. The Association then formed themselves into a Committee to secure the election of Air. Harvey, which it is expected will take place on Tuesday next. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, FER. 21. The Loan CHANCELLOR took his seat o❑ the Wool sack at Five o'Clock. The Earl of WINCHILSEA presented a petition from the neighbourhood of Mahon in Yorkshire, signed by nearly 900 owners of land, against any alteration of the Corn-laws ; also petitions from various parishes in Lincoln, to the same effect. Lord PORTMAN presented a petition from a parish in Sowersetshire to the same effect. Lord WHARNCLIFFE presented a petition from (as we understood) the Moderator of the Synod of Edinburgh, praying their Lordships to take some steps for the advancement of education. The Noble Lord presented petitions from B trnsley and various other places against any alteration in the Corn-laws. Lord WROTTLSLEY presented petitions from Portsmouth and various ether places, praying for the total repeal of the Corn-laws. The Duke of WELLINGTON presented petitions front parishes in Cumberland, Durham, Yorkshire, So mersetshire, and other places, against any alteration in the Corn-laws. CANADA. . Lord ELLENBOROUGH having put a question to the Noble Viscount opposite a short time since which he was not able to answer, in consequence of the ab sence of the Noble Secretary for the Colonies, and now seeing the Noble Marquis who had accepted the Seals of that office, in his place, he begged to know if there was any despatch from Sir J. Colborne stating the names of the persons whom he had appointed to be of his Spe cial Council, and if there would be any occasion to pro. duce that despatch. The Marquis of NORM ANBY said there was a despatch giving the named of the Special Council whom he had thought fit to appoint, and as he believed there was scarcely any other thing in that dispatch, there could be no objection to its being laid on the table. Lord WYNFORD presented a petition against any alteration in the Corn-laws. Lord RADNOR presented a petition praying that their Lordships would be pleased to hear evi dence at the bar in respect of the Corn-laws. The Noble Lord said he was requested to give notice by a Noble Friend of his, who was pre vented from attending in his place in consequence of the sudden death of a near relative, that, on Thursday, the 14th March, he should propose a reso lution on the subject of the Corn-laws. The exact terms of that resolution he had not yet deckled upon, but they probably would be to this effect—That the present laws fail produce the steadiness of price which was essential to the best interests of the country. The Noble Lord also moved for returns of an account of the average import of wheat for each year from Oc tober, 1828, to October, 1838, and also the average prices of wheat during that period. MEXICO. Lord STR AN G FORD gave notice that be should on Monday, as we understood, call the attention of the Noble Earl opposite to the state of the relation that now existed between France and certain States of 'South America. He would now take the liberty of asking the Noble Earl, who had replied in a very satisfactory mariner to a question put by his Noble Friend the other evening, whether, at the time the trans action took place to which the Noble Lord's answer referred, there was a single ship of war in the Gulf of Mexico ? Lord MINTO was not able to answer the question so satisfactorily as he could have wished. He believed there was one, if not more, British ships of war at Vera Cruz. There had been a large frigate there, which left the station about that time. He had seen letters from officers so immediately afterwards as to lead him :,to believe there must have been one, if not more, ships there at that time. Lord STR AN G FORD made an observation or two in a very inaudible tone. Lord MINTO—As soon as it was known that an ex pedition was contemplated orders were sent to the Com mander-in-Chief in the West Indies. to make arrange ments for the protection of the British trade. We had no concern with any other. Our power was merely for our own subjects and our own trade ; and as soon as it was known that there was any intention of proceeding against the Mexican country, directions were sent out to make every possible arrangement for the protection of the British of that station, and the answer in return was, that measures to that Effect had been taken. As it ap peared obvious that there were events likely to lead to war between France and Mexico, a considerable ad dition to the force was required, and the Commander had taken what he conceived to be sufficient means of pro tection. Lord WHARNCLIFFE said something which it was impossible to hear in the ga:lery with accuracy, in reply to which Lord MINTO said it was true that a man had been taken from on board (as we understood) a corvette. He was cautioned not to take the men, but the officer had certainly carried him away, saying he did so on his own responsibility. The French Admiral at once perceiving the impropriety of the proceeding, tendered to the Commodore what he considered a most , handsome and ample apology ; and he (Lord Minto) believed that if the Commodore had thought the man had been sufficiently under his protection to render it necessary for him to desire that he should be released, he bad not the slightest doubt that he would have been released ; and be had the pleasure of saying the greatest harmony prevailed among the officers of the two countries on the station. They bad the opportu nities of rendering each other service, and in every in stance they had eagerly availed themselves of those opportunities. Lord LYNDHURST wished to know if the Noble Earl had any objection to lay on the table Commo dore Douglas's d►spatch, and also the letter which had been received from Mr. Parkingham ? Lord MINTO said that be did not exactly know what was in those papers, but ho would look at them, and lie did not believe there would any objection. Lord ELLENBOROUGH begged to say that no French officer could have a right to board a British merchantman, and take a man from on board of her in any part of the world. The Earl of MINTO said he did not at all intend to excuse this trar.saction ; on the contrary, he had stated that it was most improper, and that he had made a representation on the subject to the French Government through the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, but that before that representation the French Admiral had offered the reparation which, under the circumstances, every honourable-minded man would have given. Lord LYNDHURST asked whether Admiral Baudin had not ascribed the occurrence to the inexpe rience of the person commanding the ship, (as we under stood the Noble and Learned Lord,) and whether there were not at the time signals going from the French Admiral's vessel ? The Earl of MI N TO said that might be possible, but he could not positively say—he would inqu're ; to say the truth, the affair having occurred so suddenly he was not aware it would have been so minutely inquired into. Lord LYNDHURST—I really am surprised that I the Noble Earl should not have expected that minute inquiry would be made into the matter. I hope the' Noble Earl will lay all the papers on the subject before the House. Lord BROUGHAM—The Noble earl at the head of the Admiralty, must have misunderstood the remarks of my Noble Friend opposite (Lord Ellenborough). My Noble Friend never suspected that any one, much less the First Lord of the Admiralty, would vin dicate or extenuate such a procceeding as this—for which, however, a satisfactory apology appears to have been made. But what my Noble Friend said, and what I thought very material—was that lie felt surprised that the First Lord of the Admiralty should get up in his place and say when a pilot has been taken out of a British Vessel—" if Commodore Douglas had understood the pilot to be under the protection of the British flag, no doubt he would have interfered." MY Noble Friend most naturally and properly expressed his surprise at this new doctrine in the law of nations — this new provision in our naval discipline, that her MI- • jesty's naval officers can only consider those under their protection who are actually on board the Queen's vessels, whereas any man on board an English merchantman is as much under the protection of the Queen's flag as if he were actually on board the Queen's ship.—( Hear, hear.) The gravamen of the charge is not that a man has been taken, but that he has been taken from on board an English ship, and I hope it will never be un derstood that there was any difference whether a man was taken from a merchantman or a Queen's ship, if` be an English vessel.—(Hear.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said the moment it was ascertained that the French had arrived in Mexico, Commodore Douglas was sent out with specific instructions to protect the commercial trade of England ; and no doubt Commodore Douglas with such instructions would have conceived himself bound to protect a person on board an English vessel whether a merchantman or a Queen's ship. It appeared, however, to be suspected that Commodore Douglas had not fulfilled his duty ; but he (the Marquis of Lansalowne) believed it would be found that the gal lant Commodore had perfectly discharged his duty. At all events the Commodore had expresied himself per fectly satisfied with the reparation of the French Admi ral, and it must be gratifying to find that that reparation was made before the representation to the French Go vernment. Lord ELLENBOROUGH said he threw no dis credit on the Commodore.--(Cries of " Hear, hear.") But he had expressed his astonishment at what he understood to have fallen from the first Lord of the Admiralty as to the distinction between the protection to be afforded to persons on board merchant men and on board Queen's ships—a distinction which he (Lord E.) knew to be altogether groundless and preg nant with the greatest peril to the commercial interests of the c.untry. Lord BROUGHAM said the whole misunderstand ing•had arisen from the word " if," which had been said to be a peacemaker, but on the present occasion had certainly produced a contrary effect.—(A laugh.) The mistake arose from the First Lord of the Admiralty stating " if Commodore Douglas had understood the pilot to be under the protection of the British flag," &c., whereupon the Noble Lord opposite (Ellen borough) had understood the Noble Earl to have said that there was no protection on board an English merchantman. The Earl of MI NTO said no doubt the Commodore must have understood the piot to be under his protec tion ; and the only thing to be doubted was whether the pilot had required the Commodore's protection, and whether it was desirable that the Commodore should have interfered for his protection ; had this been the case, there could have been no question that the appli cation would have been attended to. CORN-LAWS. The NOBLE EARL then presented petitions from Kinross, Hoy, and Hawick, against the Corn-laws. The Marquis of BUTE presented petitions from the Isle of Mull, the Isle of Bute, the Presbytery of Lorn, the town of Arbroath, and other places, in favour of the present system of Corn-laws ; also a petition, of a very different character, from the Town-Council of the borough of Ayr, praying for a revision of the present system of Corn-laws. MURDER OF LORD NORBURY. The Earl of RODEN, seeing a Noble Marquis (Normanby) in his place, and being anxious not to prefer a charge without due notice, begged to state that it was his intention to-morrow to put a question to th• Noble Marquis respecting the murder of the late Lord Norbury. NATIONAL EDUCATION (IRELAND.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, by command of her Majesty, laid on the table the .sth Report of the Commissioners of National Education in Ireland. THE sciN, LoNDUN, FRIDAY, —EVENING +'DI they had hitherto pursued. The Speech on this occasion was little more than a lamentation, and expressed no more on the subject than if it had been one of the la mentations of Jeremiah. He wo.uld ask the Noble Lord whether, after this waste of treasure and of men for the last five years, that Government were determined to continue this assistance to such an extravagant extent as they had hitherto done. He thought their Lordships were entitled to a distinct explanation from her Majes ty's Ministers as to whether they intended to pursue this war on the sam e f oot i ng as t h ey h a d hitherto pursued it, or whether they were disposed to take a wiser and a better course. If the txpense was to go on, OH the present extravagant scale, would the country be satisfied ?—(Hear.) In this unhappy state of affairs, the claims of the Legion still remained unsatisfied. Did the Noble Viscount believe that the Spanish Government would ever carry its pro noses Into execution ? Did he really believe that the c!ai,us of the Legion would ever be settled ? A Noble Duke had stated that this war was nothing but a stock jobbing war. He (the Noble Marquis) wished to say a few words on this subject : a negociation was actually going on a this moment in the City for a loan for the Queen of Spain under false pretences.—( Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances he should like to know from the Noble Viscount whether he was a party either directly or indirectly to this negociation. It was stated that this loan was to be raised under the moral sanction of her Majesty's Government. What this sanction might be he did not profess to understand, but from the recent exposures in the public Journals re lating to transaction s which had taken place inDowning street, he should be inclined to place but little trust in any such moral sanctions. The publication of a cot respondence of the Secretary of State of the Foreign Department had created such a sensation that it be hoved their Lordships to make a demand for explanation on that subject. He would not follow this question fur ther in this place, as it would be more conveniently made the subject of discussion elsewhere. [The Noble Marquis spoke throughout in a low tone of voice, and so frequently turned his back to the Gallery, that we had considerable difficulty in catching what fell from him.) No circumstance had created more noise at home or abroad for a considerable period, and in addition to that it now appeared that her Majesty's Government was about to give their moral sanction to the loan which was now being negociated. He was not prepared to go farther at present, having already frequently tres passed upon their time. With respect to the foreign policy, he could not help observing that he felt great satisfaction at having seen the affairs of Belgium and Holland brought to a happy settlement. It would ap pear as if her Majesty's Government had at length made use of their "cheval de battaile" of the Quadruple Alliance in the West, as the Quadruple Alliance in the North, had been formerly resorted to. He hoped the event was conclusive, and that it was not waiting other changes, as was the case in the Spanish question. He hoped, however, her Majesty's Government would not suppose that that great country would continue hanging on the decisions of another country. The people of England required and demanded from the Noble Vis count some explanation upon that matter. Did the Noble Viscount mean to feed the war in Spain, as he had hitherto done, with the treasure and men and money of this country ? That was the main object of the ques tion lie had to put. In conclusion, his object certainly was to move for Returns which would show the enor mous loss and sacrifice of men and treasure which had been made and which had ended in disgrace and discom fiture. He should now move for a return of all the supplies forwarded in the service of the Queen of Spain from July 1838 to the latest period ; including any ar ticles furnished to the Chief Mujagorri, in money, arms, cannons, and stores. He would also move for a Return of the extra charges of the Navy, caused by the continued blockade, and the Marines on shore, and the expense of the Commissioners of the Queen of Spain. Also for a copy or extracts of the correspondence that had taken place between the Go vernment l betweenB3 8 , Lord relative . to H tahye and pro gcr Colonel l s o s n o e l f the war, a s n i d n c e al J so ul \\'ylde and the Foreign Office, relative to the aid afforded by the British Government. The greater part of the correspondence related to the outrages that had taken place in carrying on the war. He must do her Majesty's Government the justice to say that in that correspondence they had admitted they had made mistakes. He thought that the concluding parts of that correspondence called upon the Govern. ment to adopt more decisive measures. He had only moved for these papers for the purpose of more fully elucidating the subject. Lord MELBOURNE said, that if he rightly under stood what fell from the Noble Lord on Wednesday last, when his gave his notice, it was that he should ask certain questions respecting Spain ; but he gave no notice that he should move for certain returns. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said that he distinctly stated to the Noble Viscount that he should move for a return of the supplies and correspondence. Lord MELBOURNE then said that he had entirely misunderstood the Noble Lord. He understood that he was going to ask questions, but not to move for re turns, and it would certainly he better that the Noble Lord should beforehand state what he in tended to move for, in order that it might be consi dered whether it would he prudent and wise to accede to his motion. The Noble Lord had asked what course her Majesty's Government meant to pursue in respect to Spain. He had no hesitation in stating distinctly that the intention was to observe the Quadruple Alliance, and peraite the same system which had been adopted, and Observe those engagements that had' been entered into.—(Hear, hear.) It was impossible to deny that that system had not been attended with the speedy effect which it was hoped would have been produced ; but he would deny that it had been as the Noble Lord had described it, from beginning to end, nothing but a failure and dis grace. He had asked whether Government intended to feed that war as they had been doing, and whether they intended to send supplies to the extent they had supplied them. With respect to that they would act . according to their discretion, according to circum stances, and according to that which occasions and opportunities required ; but unquestionably they would act on the system they bad adopted of maintaining their engagements, and following up their stipulations. The Noble Lord had said that he should have thought they were about to abandon the system they had hitherto pursued, unless he had heard in the course of last Session that they had sent certain sup plies, and given certain encouragement to a chief named Muniagorri,who had made a movement in those provinces. It was to be observed that that was a movement for the purpose of establishing a pacification between the Go vernment of Spain and those provinces, by acknowledg ing, on the one hand, the Queen's Government, and of securing on the other the rights and privileges of those provinces. He (Lord M.) had no hesitation in saying, that when Government saw a spirit of that kind de• monstrating itself, and a probability of terminating those hostilities by that attempt in that country, un questionably the Govern men t th oug ht it was p o li c y, through their agents, to communicate to the leaders of that movement their sympathy and approbation of such movement, and to do every thing in their power to bring about a final peace between the Queen's Go vernment and those provinces. Communications had taken place, therefore, to that effect between the agents of her Majesty's Government and that leader, and some small amount of supplies had been placed at the disposal of Lord Hay at his discretion, to afford to that leader or not. How far they had been given, he (Lord W.) was un able to say, but to any return on that subject there could be no objection. The Noble Lord had then al luded to a subject which had been before discussed in their Lordship's House, namely, the arrears due to the Legion. The Noble Lord knew ver y well how that subject stood. He knew that th ere was a Commission sitting in London on the subject a t p resent, and that that Commission had proceeded to a considerable ex tant io ascertaining what the claims were on behalf of the Legion ; and he asked him (Lord M.) whether in his conscience he believed the Spanish Government would make good those claims or not. He (Lord M.) could only speak to facts, and therefore he could only speak to what had taken place and what was doing, but as to what would take place he could not pretend t o sa y a word. Evet - y one knew the difficulties under which the Spanish Government laboured with respect to its finances, but he believed there was in th e p resent Go vernment of Spain a sincere desire to fulfil th e engage ments into whichit had entered. Th e N o bl e L or d had also mentioned the subject of th e L oan, wh i ch he sai under d e the moral was ramisoingl in this co untry, and as h e lik ew i se stated sanction of her Ma jes t y ' s G overnment. He (Lord M , ) begged distinctly to say that her Ma jesty's GOvernment was in no respect whatever to be considered not only as having sanction e d, but as hay ing done anything or said anything that cou ld amount to an encouragement to that loan, so a s to i n d uce per sons to enter into it or to give tho se w h o m i g h t enter into that speculation the sli g ht est hold on the re sponsibility of Governme nt. Th e Noble Lord h a d th en mentioned some ot her correspondenc e , and asked whe ther that correspondence was correct or auth en ti c . Ile (Lord M.) h ad not seen it, and t h erefore could not say Y he had b etter no t have alluded to it at all. With respe c t t o th e motion, he did not exactl y know ho w its wording stood, but he apprehe o o. and he nded there wou ld be nu thoughti thatimp imperfectly nly , adverted n i to t s e Noble L or d h a d great objection to the production of what it called f or. As to the documents which ha d been written with a view to miti gate the atrocities and character of th e war, not on l y Government were not unwilling, but th ey were most desirous to lay all these documents on the table. They should consider it a great reproach on t h emselves, i f they bad not done eve r y thing in th e i r power, both by communication with the Spanish L ea d ers, and with the Carlist Leaders, and with every other Gov ernor o f Eu iropelive. They knew very well that it was impossible, and against hum an nature, that such a system as had been c arried on cou ld he exercised by times to pu i t n a wiiic stopbto we the a system which w as a di sgrace t o one and not retaliated by the other. Opposing force to force, and the shedding of blood to the shedding of blood, must lead to every possible horror ; but it was but justice t o the Queen's Officers and lON, FEBRUARY 22, 1 I Government to say that he believed those who began it were responsible for the whole ; and he believed it was upon Don Carlos and his officers the whole responsibility rested. He did not say that in the course of such horrors and violence being perpetrated by the one side, horrors and violence would not be committed by the other, but the commencement of the warfare rested with Don Carlos, and the Queen's Go vernment were not justly chargeable with its conse quences. But however that might be, there would not only be no objection to the correspondence moved for by the Noble Lord between her Majesty's Government and the Spanish Government,but also thecommunications which they had had with Foreign Powers on this sub ject. There could be but one opinion among the Al lies—(Hear, bear) —among all nations on this ques tion ; and they bad only heard utter reprobation of the proceedings, and an anxiety to terminate them ; and although naturally any great influence «ith Don Carlos was disclaimed by those to whom they had applied, yet there had been the utmost readiness on all hands pro fessed to exert any influence they had with a view to put an end to such practices so outrageous to humanity. It would, perhaps, be better that the Noble Lord's motion should stand till to-morrow, that it might be considered. The Duke of WELLINGTON said, if his Noble Friend could postpone his !notion till to morrow, be would suggest to the Noble Viscount that he should also lay on the table the despatches which had been written in 1834 and 1835, on the same subject, and which had never yet been laid on the table, because he (the Noble Duke) thought they would prove that if the course of policy adopted then bad been adhered to, the present state of things would not now have existed. Lord MELBOURNE assented to that production. Lord RIPON said, that if this encouragement had been given to this leader without the concurrenceof the Queen of Spain, be thought that was a course calculated to lead those people into a most dangerous situation. He wished to know, therefore, whether this intervention with Muniagorri was with the consent of the Queen of Spain or not ? Lord MELBOURNE said that what was done was understood and known by the Queen's Government. Lord ABERDEEN understood the efforts had been repudiated by the Queen's Commaeder, and with whom, in a certain sense, Muniagorri was acting in hos tility. This was in fact a third party which had been set up, quite independent of the Queen and of Don Carlos—a party who had endeavoured to bring the war to a conclusion, upon a different footing to that pro posed by either of the other two parties. This was really, therefore, a most preposterous assumption on our part, to set up a party independent of the other parties to carry on a war. This could not be said at least to be in conformity with the Quadruple Treaty. It was a party set up who, if he failed, this country was bound to sup port, and therefore calculated to lead people to engage in an undertaking which might bring upon them very heavy responsibilities, hereafter. It was quite gratui tous on our part, and we had horrors enough in that contest, without bringing a new barbarian into the field, for whose atrocities by our assistance we were rendering ourselves responsible. The Duke of WELLINGTON objected to the word blockade in his Noble Friend's motion. There could be no such thing as blockade there. The squa dron was engaged in operations in connection with the Chief Muniagorri, therefore he hoped the Noble Mar quis would leave that word out. Lord MELBOURNE said, that though the - part taken by Muniagorri was that of a third party, and al though he proposed to settle the affairs of Spain upon grounds different to those assumed by either the Queen or Don Carlos, yet, when the questism was whether they were right in encouraging that effort, it ap peared there was a very considerable feeling, by both parties to terminate the war on those principles, and he would ask, if there was a probability presented of that kind, they were not right in taking the chance of producing it ? The Marquis of LONDONDERRY was extremely surprised at what had fallen from the Noble Viscount opposite. It would appear that if there was a now standard raised for a new war, the Noble Viscount would have no objection to embark in it ; and that if any money was necessary to be expended for these Quixotic proceedings—for Muniagorri's was nothing else—the Noble Viscount would have no objection to it. It was just one of those circumstances which he thought it necessary to call the attention of the House and the public to. With respect to any ar rangement for the payment of the Legion, he could only say that he had no such confidence in the Spanish Government as to induce him to believe that the Le gion would ever be paid at all, any more than that this country would ever receive one farthing back of the. 600,0001. which had been expended by us. He would withdraw his motion to-night, for the purpose of making it to-morrow, understanding that no discussion would then take place upon it ; and in the interim he should amend it, so as to include the despatches of 1834 and 1835, and to leave out the word blockade. He could only say that he had no intention of being uncourteous to the Noble Viscount by urging on his motion hastily. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that every step taken by that Chief had been communicated, but no remonstrance nor even an expression had been made by the Government against the interest alluded to. Here the conversation dropped. • MUNICIPAL COURTS' BILL. Lord DEN NI A N moved the second reading of this Bill, which, as has been already stated, has for its object the assimilation of the practice of those Courts in uni formity and expedition to the inferior Courts, and that they should not hold their sittings fewer than four times a year. The Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. Their Lordships then adjourned. ROUSE OF COMMONS. FRI". 21. The SPEAKER took the chair shortly beforo Pour o'Clock. Mr. MONTAGUE presented the annual returnsfrom the Court of Bankruptcy. Mr. HINDLEY presented a petition from the Westminster Improvement Company, for leave to bring in a Bill to carry their objects into effect. Mr. HOPE presented a petition from the Birming ham and Gloucester Railway Company, for leave to bring in a Bill to extend their line. Mr. AGLIONBY brought up a report from the Committee on Private Bills, finding that the - Standing Orders had been complied with in the case of the Lon don and Birmingham Railway Bill, and the Rugby and Warwick Road Bill.— Leave was then given to bring in the Bills. CORN-LAWS. Lord REDESDALE presented a petition from the merchants and manufacturers of Lancaster in favour of the present system of Corn-laws, signed by 1,400 in dividuals. Lord BROUGHAM (after having looked at the pe tition) said that he observed an addition to several of the names " J. P. for the county of Lancaster" which sounded much more like land than commerce.—(Hear, and a laugh.) The petition was said to be from the merchants and manufacturers ; but among the names he saw John Godson, J. P. for the County, of Grassyard-house, which certainly sounded very like land.—(A laugh.) It seemed to him very like an agricultural petition. Then there was William Moore, of Grimshall, J. P. for the - county. There was another gentleman, apparently carrying on the manufacture of gra;n at Millinghall ; and two Other respectable Justices of the Peace. He saw also among them a solicitor. Lord REDESDALE merely stated what appeared on the face of the petition, but they could net have a petition signed by 1,400, all merchants and manu facturers. The Marquis of WESTMEATH knew a manufac turer who was the best farmer in the country. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM presented peti tions from Hereford ; Ramham, in Essex ; two parishes in Northampton ; Bassett, in Wilts ; Maidstone, in Kent ; Lincoln, and other places, against the repeal of the Corn-laws ; from Diss, in Norfolk, from a place in Essex, and from Monmouth, to the same effect. AFFAIRS OF SPAIN. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to move that that portion of her Majesty's speech relating to Spain be now read. Lord BROUGHAM reminded their Lordships that the papers moved for last Session were not yet laid on the table ; he meant a return of any despatches which may have been received from the Governor-General of the Leeward Islands, or the Council of Government, touching the dissolution of the Legislative Assembly of those islands. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said it would have ill become him to occupy their Lordships time when the address was moved, by giving expression to his sen timents on any point, and he therefore reserved himself for the present occasion to express his sentiments on that part of her Majesty's Speech which related to the af fairs of Spain. He would move that that part of her Majesty's Speech which related to Spain be read. The deep interest which he took in that subject in duced him to move for papers at the close of last session. li their Lordships had had the patience to read those pa pers which had been laid on their table, they would have have been acquaintedwith the dreadful state of affairs in that unfortunate country. He appealed to the candour of the Noble Viscount whether there was any exaggeration of any nature in the statements made by him (Lord L.) on the subject. He would endeavour shortly to explain the situation in which we stood with regard to that country. We had made an expenditure upon the war now carrying on in that country of 569,1631., and had sacrificed upwards of 8,000 men. He would ask if we are still to continue our exertions, to waste our money and treasure, for the purpose of upholding a cause so disgraceful in itself and so despised by all the Governments of Europe ? In offering those observa tions he was confirmed in the hope that a dif ferent system was to be pursued, by remarking that the expressions in her Majesty's speech this year expressed a spirit so different from that that was sx pi essed in previous speeches from the Throne on that subject, he trusted that the Government had deter mined to abandon the course they had hitherto pursued. That Government through the Commissioners and Lard John Hay had opened a communication with the Span ish Government, andlhad afforded them, consequent upon that, a supply of ammunition and cannon. Thus they had only escaped the disgrace inflicted on them by the return of the Legion in November, to fall into such another trap immediately afterwards. He would call the attention of their Lordships to the different manner in which the affairs of Spain had been alluded to, in the Speeches from the Throne, since 1834. In 1834, the Speech from the Throne stated that his Majesty had directed to be laid before Parliament the articles of the treaty entered into between himself and his allies, the King of the French, the Queen of Spain, and the Queen of Portugal. In 1836, the speech expressed that the measures he had taken, and the energetic conduct of the Queen of Spain would be fully sufficient to bring the civil war to a speedy termination. In 1837 the speech expressed regret that the civil contest in Spain had not yet been brought to a close, and stated that his Majesty still continued to afford the Queen of Spain that assistance which he wes bound to afford her by the treaty of the Quadruple Alliance. These speeches all speak of affording every assistance, and of the expectations of ultimate success in the contest. In November, 1837, her Majesty expresses her regret a t th e continuance of the civil war in Spain, and states th a t s h e continues to execute with fidelity her engagements with the Queen of Spain. In 1837 their Lordships would perceive there was still the same decision to con tinue in the same course which had hitherto been pursued , but on the opening of this Session we only find one single sentence expressing her Majesty's regret at the continu ance of the civil war in Spain. Their Lordship's would observe the great difference in the expressions of her Ma jesty's Minister at these different periods. He wished to know from the Noble Viscount whether this charge of ex pression had any allusion to a determination on the part of her Majesty's Government to desist from the course CORN LAWS. Mr. L ANGDALE presented a petition from the owners and occupiers of land of MO townships in York shire, praying for an alteration in the Corn-laws, ,but that the agricultural interest might have some moderate protection. Mr. GILLON presented a petition from Selkirk, praying fur the immediate repeal of the Corn-laws ; one to the same effect from the Provost, Magistrates, Town Council and inhabitants of Peebles. One to the same effect from the Provost, Magistrates, and Town Council of Falkirk. Petitions from Kinross, a place in MidlotLian, and other places, against any further endow downient to the Kirk of Scotland ; and petitions from the retailers of spirits in Peebles and Dingwall, praying for a reversion of the lincensing system. Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND presented a peti tion from Combermere, praying for a total repeal of the Corn Laws ; also, a petition from Silston, in Yorkshire, praying for leave to bring in a Bill to establish water works. Mr. COLQUHOUN presented thirteen petitions from different parishes in Scotland, complaining of spi ritual destitution, and praying for further endowment. The LORD ADVOCATE presented a petition from Leith, praying for a repeal of the Corn-laws. Mr. lIODG ES presented a petition from Tunbridge in favour of the Corn-laws. Mr. CLIVE presented a petition to the same effect. CHURCH-RATES. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Mr. John Childs, of Bungay, representing that the petitioner deemed it incompatible with religious liberty to be obliged to pay the expenses of the religious service of the Established Church, and that he had been imprisoned in former years for refusing to pay Church -rates, and that the dissensions created by that impost had caused great disquietude in the parish in which he resided, almost to the breaking up of society, and he prayed the House to take measures for abolishing this unjust law, and also to do away with the jurisdiction of the Ecclesiastical Court, except as to members of the Established Church. The Hon. Member gave notice that he should call the attention of the House to the subject to-morrow. STAGE COACHES. Mr. GROTE presented a petition from persons con nected with the stage-coach business in London, praying for the reduction of the present rate of taxation that pressed so heavily upon them, and that an equivalent tax might be placed on other modes of conveyance.—( Hear.) Mr. HU NIE presented a similar petition. Mr. M. PHILLIPS presented a petition from the Preston and Wire Railway Company, praying for leave to bring in a Bill to extend their line. CORN LAWS. Petitions against any alteration in the Corn-laws were presented by Mr. lleathcote, from a place in Lincoln shire, and by Mr. Christopher, from several places. Mr. E. J. STANLEY presented a petition from Rumford, in Chester, against. any further endowment to the National Church ; also a petition from the li censed victuallers of the same place, against the Beer Bill. THE CASE OF MR. D. W. HARVEY. Mr. WYNN brought up the Report of the Select Committee appointed on Mr. Harvey's case. The Re port was read by the Clerk at the table. The Select Committee appointed to consider the papers relative to the appointment of Mr. D. W. Harvey, the Member for Southwark, to the office of Registrar of Hackney Car riages, and directed to report whether Mr. Harvey having accepted the said office has vacated his seat, hare agreed to the following Report :--Resolved, that the Commit tee consider the. under the provisions of the 6th of Anne, chap. 7, 41 Gto. 111. chap. 52, and 1 and 2 Vict., chap. 79, the Committece are of opinion that the office of Registrar of Hackney Carriages is a new office of profit under the Crown, within the intent and weaning of the said Acts : that Mr. D. W. Harvey has accepted the said office, and has thereby vacated his seat. Mr. NV YNN said, in accordance with the decision of the Committee, which he would observe was unani mously agreed to, and in which they were assisted by the law officers of the Crown—under these circumstances, unless any Hon. Gentleman wished for time in order to induce the House to come to a different conclu sion, he thought it due to the electors of the borough of Southwark not to keep them without a Representa tive for that, borough any longer, and he therefore moved that a new writ be now issued. On the question being put that the motion be agreed to, Mr. HUME said he had no hesitation in expressing his concurrence in the opinion of the Committee, and the question appeared to him as plain a one as could possibly be submitted.—( Hear, hear.) lie rose only to state that there had been many instances of Members of that House receiving the public money, and appointed to public offices, without vacating their seats, and without any notice being taken of it, and it would appear that the objection in the present case was directed against Mr. Harvey.—(Cries of " Hear, hear," from the Ministerial Benches, and " No, no," from the Opposition.) He hoped that the rule which had now been enforced would in future be rigidly ob served, and that there would be no ground henceforth given for any imputation as to the partiality of the House, for there was nothing so important as that strict impartiality should be observed in their proceedings, and no person ought to be injured by that House on account.of his political opinions. There was no doubt this was a very hard case as to Mr. Harvey, who, however, had frankly avowed that what ever the decision of the House, he would avoid putting them to any embarrassment or uncertainty. Mr. WARD, as one of the Committee, felt bound to say the case was so clear and the facts so settled that there was not the slightest shadow of a shade of doubt upon the subject, and the Committee deemed that they were only discharging a public duty in putting an end to the uncertainty with regard to the borough of South wark, by the report which they had presented. Mr. AG LIO NBY would not have said a word, but for the assertion of the Hon. Member who had just sat down, that there was not the shadow of a shade of doubt among the Committee—( A laugh)—which was not strictly correct, for he (Mr. Aglionby) had suggested a doubt ; which doubt he still feu, a:though he bad on the Committee submitted to a superior legal authority, whether there was not a distinction between the ac ceptance of an offi - .:e, to which a salary was at the time of its acceptance attached, and the acceptance of an office to which there was only a contingent and un certain salary. In this latter case he did not think that, as the Court of Queen's Bench could not grant a mandamus, neither did the rule of vacating the scat in that House apply. Sir ROI3ERT PEEL trusted that the Hon. Member for Kilkenny would allow him to suggest that if he was aware of any other instances that fell within the same principle, that he would have the goodness to mention them, and move for new writs.—(Hear, hear.) If the Hon. Member made such a motion, he should be disposed to second it for the sake of impartiality.—( Hear.) Mr. HUME had no hesitation, in explanation of what he bad said, to state to the Right Honour able Baronet that the first question he had put to some of the Members of the Committee was whether they had inquired into the pre cedents of that House. He had asked whether they had inquired into the case of the Hon. Member for Marylebone, who had been sent abroad.—(Hear, hear.) Whether they had inquired into the case of the Hon. Member for Kilmarnock, who had been allowed a sum of money for a Special Commission—( Hear) — and also, whether they had inquired into that of the Honourable Member for Dundee.—( Hear, hear.) This was the first blot that had been discovered. Ile (Mr. Hume) did not disapprove of that discovery, but he would take care that in all future appointments, inqui ries should be made, and also into those that were now existing.—( Bear, hear.) Mr. GOULBOURN said, with respect to the case of the Honourable Member for Kilmarnock, to which the Hon. Member for Kilkenny had al ' luded, he (Mr. Goulbourn) had called the attention of the House to the subject hiMself, and no person was more vigorous in casting imputations upon him for do ing so than the Hon. Member for Kilkenny.--(Hear.) Mr. HUME begged to explain. He denied the statement of the Right Honourable Gentle man. That Right Honourable Gentleman had made some imputation which he (Mr. Hume) con sidered improper with reference to the estimates on that subject, and what he had stated was to depre cate the course he pursued. Mr. W. W. WYNNE, on behalf of the Committee, wished to state that they were appointed to consider whe ther Mr. Harvey abrocated his seat or not, and it was no part of their duty to inqnire into the circumstances of the cases of the Hon. Member for Kilmarnock, or the Hon. Member for Dundee. If the Hon. Member for Kilkenny was aware of any other case, it would be his duty to bring it under the consideration of the House. He could not but observe that the present law upon the subject was deficient, inasmuch as there was no provision calling upon parties, to inform that House of the appointment of Members to, official situations. There were other cases, but they were.passed over sub silentio ; if, however, these were brought before the House from any quarter, the House would then inquire into them. Mr. JERVIS rose, he said, to give an opportunity to the Right lion. Gentleman, the Member for Mont gomery, to contradict a rumour which was very preva lent in Wales, that since the last election he had re ceived a place of profit under the Government, the Lord ship of Denbigh, for which he received something for doing certain duties. Now it was within his own (Mr. Jervis's knowledge, that the patent was made out since the last election. It was true it is dated before, but it is dated on an erasion, and he was informed it was not in fact made out till after the election in the month of March. He was told that the Right Hon. Gentleman had ap plied to the Chancellor of the Exchequer before the election, but he apprehended that the appointment not having taken place until after the election made no difference. The date being upon an erasure, cad having been dated subsequent to the election called for explanation. The Right Hon. Gentlemnn was originally appointed to the office in the year 1796—it was an office held during the pleasure of the Crown, and of course was vacated by the demise of the Crown. The Right Hon. Gcnticmm had held the office during the reigns of George 111. and William IV., he believed without any renewal of the patent. The election took place, and the Right Hon. Gent. applied for the re ceipt ()Ibis salary. It was then inquired of him whether he had any patent, which, being produced, was found to be dated upon an erasure. He (Mr. J.) made inquiries at the office, and he was informed by the officer there that though the appointment was made on the sth March, 1837, it bore the date of the 18th July. He thought he had stated sufficient grounds to entitle him to call upon his Right Honourable Friend, if he would allow him to call him so, for an explanation. (Laughter.) He could assure him that it had excited a feeling in the minds of many Welchtnen that he had vacated his seat by the acceptance of the office in ques tion.—(Laughter.) Mr. WYNN thought that he had a good right to complain of the unfairness of bringing a question of that nature without his having been favoured with any notice, or without, so far as the Hon. Gentleman was concerned, the slightest intimation of his intention.— (Hear, hear.) As it happened, however, he had had notice of this case, because his Right Honourable Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had informed him that the Honourable Member had been making inquiries into the subject. He would meet the case by stating the real circumstances attend• ing his appointment. It was true that he received the appointment originally in the reign of George 111., in the year 1796—it was perfectly true that he had held the appointment throughout the reign of Geerge IV., without any new patent, un der the provisions of an Act of Parliament which rendered such appointments legal unless there was an actual tender of them. Upon the death of William the Fourth, and prior to the election, he was still hold ing the office, which he might legally do for six months. Before the expiration of that time he wrote to the Chancellor of the Exchequer to know whether it was intended to continue the appointments, and in reply before the election he received from the Right lion. Gentleman a letter stating that the appointment would be continued, and that the patent would be prepared forthwith. Though he had received time patent after the election, still heapprehended that it would not vacate his seat, because before he was re-elected, he had in fact in that letter received his re appointment to that office. Under these circumstances he considered that the lion. Gentleman had, what was vulgarly called, found a mare's nest.—(Laughter.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he felt it to be his duty to say a few words on the subject ; he might, perhaps, not ex, press himself so clearly on the subject a; if he had been present the other night—but he believed there could be no doubt of the fact, that before the election the lion. Gentleman had applied on the sub ject of the appointment, when he was informed that. the re-appoin tment would take place as a matter of course, and the only r eason for the delay which had occurred, was, that a doubt had arisen as to whether the ap pointment was to take place tinder the Woods and Forests, or under the authority of the Treasury. With regard to Gentlemen accepting the Chiltern Hun dreds, what was constantly occurring, Gentlemen were in the habit of applying for the ixppointmentt of Steward to the Chiltern Hundreds, and between the making out the appointment and the acceptance of the office a delay of two or three days frequently took place, and yet there is no instance of a new writ being moved for in . 1 that House during this interval on the ground of the • . - appointment to the office. In fabt, it was the accept, ance of the office, and not the 4ta of, the . a p:- kingnut pointment that brought the law into operation. ',lf any irregularity had occurred, he (the Chancellor of th e Ex chequer) was responsible fcr it, ankit-iroiet.Out-of•an u n certainty as to what department itlhobild tie v t f ec.e q Mr. JERVIS certa ; nly would not have mentibne'd the case at all if the Right Hon. Gentleman had not wished to know if there had been any case at all anala gous to it—(Much laughter, and cries of Hear, hear.) Whether he might be right or wrong he really had no notion ; he contended that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had no authority to give the office ; he merely recom mended the appointment to the Crown, by whom th e office was granted, and he subsequently signified his approval in the usual manner. Although the appointment was made on sth of March, the office was not legally given away until the patent was actually made out. It seemed to him therefore that if they were to act with strict impar tiality and seek to subject the Hon. Member to penalties for every vote he had given, that some further inquiry was necessary.—The motion was then agreed to. CRIME IN IRELAND. Mr. SHAW gave notice that on 7th March he should mot e for papers relating to the state of Ireland, parti cularly copies of any reports or communications re specting crime and outrage in that country. CORN-LAWS. Mr. WARD said it was perfectly useless in him to hope that the House would rescind its decision with regard to not hearing evidence in the case of the Sheffield petition. He should therefore postpone the consideration of the Sheffield Petition until after the motion of which the lion. Member for Wolverhampton had given notice for an early day for a Committee of the whole House had been disposed of. After that motion was decided he would bring the Sheffield Petition under the consi deration of the House. REGISTRATION OF ELECTORS' BILL. Colonel SIBTHORP gave notice that when this Bill was brought before the House, he should move the insertion of a clause, the nature of which we could not hear. In answer to a question by the Gallant Colonel, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that as delay had been asked for with regard to the Bill, he should not bring it on before Monday se'nnight. GRAND JURIES. Mr. PRIME gave notice that he should, on the 7th March, move for leave to bring in a Bill to abolish Grand Juries in England and Wales.—(Laughter.) PROTECTION OF SHIPS FROM LIGHT- NING. An HoN. MEMBER gave notice that, on the 26th of February, he should more for a Select Committee to inquire into the statements of Captain Harris on the subject of the protection of ships from lightning._ LORD LIEUTENANT OF IRELAND. Mr. HUME gave notice that on Tuesday next he should move a resolution that no more Lords Lieutenant be appointed for Ireland. IRISH MEDICAL CHARITIES. Colonel CONNOLLY wished to ask the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to legislate on the subject of Irish Medical Charities this year, and also whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government in any way to connect the Irish Medical Charities with the existing system of Poor laws. Lord MORPETH said it was not in the con templation of her Majesty's Government to introduce any proposition respecting the Irish Medical Charities. The Bill passed in the course of the last Session to connect the administration of the Medical Charities with the Poor-laws it was not intended to modify or repeal. ECCLESIASTICAL DUTIES and REVENUES. Mr. GOULBURN wished to ask the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Home Department, what course he intended to pursue on Monday next with respect to the Bills which stood for that day, particularly the Ec clesiastical Duties and Revenues Bill. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he intended to move the second reading on that day, and then make a statement as to the objects of the Bill. Mr. GOULBURN said that the day proposed for the second reading had not allowed sufficient time for the consideration of the Bill. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that three or four years had elapsed since the Report of the Commission was made. He certainly did not think Monday next too short a notice, because it was, in fact, a notice of four years. Mr. WYNN thought sufficient time would not be allowed to get up petitions on the subject. Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in answer to a question, said there would be some alteration in the Ecclesiastical Duties Bill of last year. Mr. GIBSON put the question to the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as to whether it was his intention to bring in any measure connected with the Post-office, based on the statements laid before the House ?—(The answer was delivered in a low tone of voice, and wholly escaped us.) Mr. GI LLON proceeded to call the attention of the House to the taxes on internal communication, with a view to their equalization and reduction. It was at all times, he said, an irksome task to him to intrude himself on their notice ; but it was his duty on this occasion to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice. A Committeee had come to resolutions on the subject, and on that he should base the motion whi c h h e was now about to lay before the House. The first class with which he intended to deal, was the assessed taxes ; the second, the duty on the hire of carriages ; third, a amountn modesot equally of mileage duty on stage coaches ; fourth, their lic ense duty ; fifth, the assessed taxes on coach guards ; s i xt h , the duty on draught o h t or horses. taxed, Theor at t o grossthl thought he should be able to reduc e , was 823,8281. con veyanceir l The ne thatx t point w w e were withnreference taxed. As Hon. Members must be aware, a new power of conveyance had aris en , an d was fostered ' by being lightly taxed. He a ll u d e d to steam, in the shape of rail- roa d s or steam boats conveyed persons from place t o p l ace in largenumbers, and yet that species of com mun i cation was only taxed at about one-eighth of a pen n y a mile, whil e that upon other modes of conveyance, by stage-coach, was three times that amount. As an instance of that, he would advert to what had taken place on the London and Greenwich Railway ; in the year 1836 that railway had carried no less than 1,200,000 passengers, and all the duty that they had paid, agree ably to their composition, was 400/. while the stage coach proprietors had paid upwards o f 6,0001. In consequence of this state of things numerous petitions had been presented complaining of the grievances under which the petitioners laboured, and praying the House to adopt some means for their relief, stating that unless they did so it would be impossible for them to compete with the railroads and other means of communication. One of the great coach proprietors, who had been exa mined before the Committee to which he had referred, had stated that unless some alteration was made, the stage-coach-business would be entirely put an end to. Another large proprietor, who might be known to many in that House, Mr. Horne, was examined b e f ore the Committee, when he stated that he fully ex p ecte d that the coaching business would be annihil a t e d , and he was quite correct, for it was nearly ann ihil ated already. If protection was given in any shape—if privil eges were tobe granted to communications of any kind, it ought to be to communications carried on by means of animal power, for animals consumed a large quantity of taxed commodities ; and they formed the only line of commu nication which the public had, as a means of guarding against the great monopolies whi c h sooner or later wou ld bcome extremely dangerous.---(Hear, hear.) The Post, horse Duties was another heavy tax which they were subject to, that was a daty of lid. per mile. They also complained of the duty imposed upon Post Car rihges. In order to benefit the public, many of the post-masters kept four of these carriages while only one was worked at a time, but still they bad to pay duty on all four. The innkeepers were another class who had much reason to complain of the rapid increa se of steam power, for their business was entirely leaving them. They had embarked large capitals n their business, and they would be obliged to give them up, and themselves and families would be ruin e d unless some relief were held out to them by the abolition of the Post-horse Duty and other taxes relie which I were the Chancellor of the Exchequer would find given e Dut ies would his from John John pressed heavily upon them. Unless this entirely reve nue from the Pos t-horse flail hi m . He had a retu rn f 1837 h e paid Government t axat i on three months o John ston of Glasgow, in which he state d tha t in the last d'ng m onths of 1838 he paid onl y 3 1/. in the corresponding 75. 6d., and as the earnings of a p ostmaster ou ght to be upon travelling to the a mount of 112/. 7s. 54d., while eight times the amo unt of taxation which he p ai d , the to Mr. Johnston in that three months was 6 48/. loss llo w wa s it possible that men could carry on their bu siness at this rate . The y could not as was p r oved by list of forty-two coac hes which had latel y b een taken off the road. The tax upon steam carriages was a mere nullity while there was no tax whatever upon steam-boats, the • g n proprietors of which had also the privilege of carrying on the trade of innkeepers , without being a t any expense for licenses. Thero bad been a great cry for justice for Ireland, but he would cry f or justice to the other parts of Great Britain. Ireland was entirely free from these duties, and he would have justice done by assimilating the taxation of both countries. The Hon. Gentleman, after reading extracts from a series of documents, proceeded to say that all the information ho had procured established him in the conviction, that if the duties on carriages and post-horses were removed, or materially dimi nished, the use of those vehicles in Ireland as well as in England and Sc otland, would be very much in creased, and the accommodation of the public e greatly promoted thereby. This would lie the only way to de feat the great railway monopolists, at whose m( r,!a- Parliament had most recklessly allowed s evera l very important interests to be left. In fact, if th e taxat i on against which he contended were kept on, ther e wou ld be no means of competing with those gentlemen. In the conduct of the Railway shareholders there w as , as. s_V ,} . ~'V'.r \. ~~~ ,~n.--