The Sun. — London, England, 1821-06-02 00:00:00

. • . • . • lattyesr.'• Deducti . 4g the amount of the revenue from this; there woul4 xomain a sum of X.13,2b%i.,848 ofexpenditUre beyond the reiTnue. But as the Sinliing Fand - .amounted to . X16,13 , )0,01.10, there would- be an actual. reduc.tiob of debt to the amount of 3,590,0001. As he' befbre r ,- anarkea, there was 400,8001. for the interest. of Eit - ivpier Bills in arrear. This suit was •to be • added to the•excess of income in the present year, which would thus be. made to arnciunt to about .; It would be rccollected that it was the object of the House to obtain a clear Sinking Fund of 5,000,0001. 'lt. waii not likely. that a Sinking Fund to that amount would be obtained in the coin?. of the present, year, unless the revenue experienceda very 22 i erable increase.„ . But there Was every reason to hope that Y• s3111,1 so nearly approach the accomplishment of the ob eseject the. -A li Gus , . hair in view, as in• the proportion of four to five. ati„ ll s- a7 . -ea eNplain the reasons ,that• he. had calcu al' the revenue of the present" year would not fall he of the revenue 'of the lest. The ground upon which Pa entertained this expectation was the amount of the actual ents in .the first five months in the year. Sa far'as it was Possible to make up the account (the Irish accounts rev being left ° fortnight in arrear), it app eare d - th a t th e progressof the /evenue fully _justified the hop e h e had expressed.. The actual Pa Ments made in Great Britain, between the sth of January the Ist of June, 1820, amounted to_ . 1:15,55ii,184 -out th a t sum included payments for the stock of malt in hand, which tornied no part of the re- , rlar income of the year. The sum recei ve d ,„r the stock in hand amourlted to _ .1.113 deducted from the actual payments into the txchequer for the first five months of the year, • reduced the sum he had mentioned to - . - 15,213,83 The actual payments in Irelano. up to the 20th of May, amo u nt e d to • - - - • The Payments for, Great Britain 312,353 £1,339,480 15,243,831 • F?'he tctal amount,for the TTnited - Kingdom being X 16,1563,311. cis was the amount of the Revenue up to the period which he riientioned in 1820. In the present year the actual pay ,4lenta made in G reat B r i ta i n f rom t h e st h of January to the tat of Jude, amounted to - - X 15,383,322 T hepayrnertts for Ireland - - - 1,435,312 • .Total - - X. 16,823,634 ---It therefore appeared that. in the_ first five r "ilthii of the present year there was an excess over the same period in the last of 24 . 0,0001. If they -deducted from the last year's receipts th e 31)000/. for the stock . of Malt on hand, .the Revenu e had thus cleared in five - nioaths 240,006/. ° F the extra Rim raised last year upon that ac, c . ,"at_.; and th e y had only to snake_good,To,oool. in seven .months, to plate the'llevenue of this Year upon.an .equal footing with the last, even with that adventitious. increase of its amount. He th ought th en t h at u nl e s s Some unexpected mis fortune occurred, it must be .clear that Ministers e il, - tiotaverstate the argument in their own fa !oar, in making that calculation which he had 33st 'submitted teethe Committee. In 1819, Par-. lis• • tnent had determined on doing that which cer ,tl4lly threw a great burden on the country, by i • Posing new taxes, calculated to produce 6'47900,000/.. for The . purpose-of obtaining a clear . I.lll(ing.Fond*to the amountof 5,000,000/. That bad nOt yet 'been .attained, but lie .had the ,Committee that they already. ap- Proached a:: Sinking Fund of 4,000,0001. would . be well that they should remember what ..the circumstances under which this effort 'as made. The . situation of the country had be en - extraordinary in every point of, view. It "iii to be b orne i n m i n d t h at l arge re d uct io ns h a d bee n„ciNde WTthin the period he had alluded to, "` cettain liranches . of. the National Debt. In ? -• 1 4trit•1818, - the Bank had held Government Zicurities to no leSs an amount than 28,000,000/. ' L c i 'at sum had been _reduced under the sanction ° , l l - Parliament, till the Securities held . by the ' 14 ,, 'ark in • ExChequer •Bills were little more than , vi u:( 3 00, 0 001. beyond the usual current account. 4 hos the linfunded Debt had not only been e !1,1 11---ceduced but 19,000,0001. o f th e sum t ) t PiOirrlated. to that purp o s e h a d b een paid 1 1 :.,.;i1e Bank... I n every o th er case , money et iby the Government on one side and receiv. e ti lt 45 ' some party on the other, was immediately v 0 ,"4 into all the various channels of circula ft was not so with respect to payments ce,'-'e t o the.. Bank. Whatever sums th e y had re-1 ah - ed. were taken from the general circ u lati on , . t C" this circumstance necessarily tended to cramp resoUrces of the country. Had not this mo p been in some degree thrown again into circu -1144°41 lie hardly knew ['Ow the country could been- sust a in ed such an effort. But bow had it e "- Put into circulation ? The Bank had ern t-4Yd it purchasing bullion. This wa s cer -401417 for a.most important ohject--4he resump- Pt " Cash P a y men t s . B u t th e money was ex ailed nt for th a t which was useless when it came e ° ,tile country, which was l a id up unprofitably, alle coffers of the Blink, and could not be made co al lable fora co n s id era bl e t i me. Th ese ' th i ngs sid ered, li ee s n e doubted whether any country had tt , d r 'made so severe an effort—had ever submit -4a to so great a sacrifice to sustain its credit, 1 1'4 t° keep good faith in all its engagemen t s .— e qfort had been made, and the country had a n d Phed over-the ditliculties.connected with it, r efuted the'aspersions which had been thrown • t i; on i ts integ r ity. . Il e congratulated the Hous e a : lt it had been made, and that they now saw Ba nk 'paying in cash. There was no longer h tit dre ad of - further restrictions being imposed, O w 48 r t 1 PRPTIeIitS in fUture would be left to take , course, and stimulate all the diver se:4d. Powers of re-production: This was already tru tt i',, and they beheld a degree of life and mil., whicii4.,throvvn-iitto the industry of the country ago . .•,,",a . ct been little calculated upon a few months th e . 0 ne great increase which had taken place in v‘ah . ; e -alu e_.of fUnded property, must increase the e 0 1.., of all other deScriptions of property in the in t " h ` r Y• This must be felt in the mortgage or th a _ e sale of lands, as many, reluctant tnpur toraNie, stock at its present high price, were na rect!'Y led to employ their capital .in that . di ". In 1816 and 1817, much distress was hee• Perienceo .similar to that which had recen tly ria.t . 4 the subject of complaint. A general stag of trade was alleged to exist, and entire . 21".!lernand for different commoditi es , an d the o f the circulating medium. What was 1. 1 7 e ffect of th e r i se i n t h e funds which followed %„ 'he years 1817 and 1818 ? That rise was not Permanent in its nature, as, he trusted, the eat would_ be found to prove. We had then I vl l2 .nderg o th at great change in our currency "'gal was now • in progress, an d t o t h e conse i7oces of which every one was t h en looking kith• alarm. They might now hope, from the 474313reS 'which h a d b een adopted, that • if the `l_l'nce of th e country was more tardy than k insd be wished, that there was all the less t ." ll .ger •mu. going back to that state of dis.: at r!ss from which we were recovering. If we tiq_ONl.d.liaZe-..b.b:new enemy to encounter, fliictua ~°l o e s might expected, occasional misfor.: "A 3 would be experienced, and partial Chancres' would take place in the value of preperty ; but therewereno grounds for - atiticipatipg a recur rence of calamity on . a scale so general as that which seemed to ihreaten the nation be fore the great' measure to which he had alluded had been adopted by the wisdom of Parliament. But reverting- to the effect produced by the rapid rise of the Funds-in 1817, he could not but re merriber that onan occasion similar to the present, he had congratulated the House on the Three per 6.Mts: having risen to Seventy.four. The price - had now for some days been above Seventy.: four. Shortly after the period to which he had• referred, they rose to above Eighty, awl the con sequence was,.the most sudden revival of the in dustny of" the country that had ever .been wit nessed. So that of late - they had been accus tomed to look back to the year 1818 as to -a year of comparative prosperity. It was with pleasure that he directed the attention the House to the change which s had lately taken place, as nothing could more distinctly indicate the immense in herent resources, and the solid means which the country possessed. We have got over the diffi culty arising from the state of our currency, cer tainly not without great inconvenience and suf fering, but there Were grounds for believing that much of that suffering proceeded. from , other causes. For it was remarkable that similar dis tress bad been experienced in most of the coun tries of Europe, and in a more extraerdinary.;le gree. in the United States of America, where no such system as ours had been in operation to any considerable extent. It was therefore clear that some great and more general cause produced that wide-spreading distress that had been experi enCed..- The attention of the House would soon be more particularly called to this subject, and he was therefore unwilling to detain them upon it now. He would only say that a more striking illustra tion of the great. internal resources of this.contry could hardly he afforded, than was supplied. by that change to which he had called their atten tioi.. He - Could not but notice with satisfaction aCcumulatlon of capital which might. be re- marked among .the• lower classes. The wise measure adopted by Parliament for establishing depositories for small savings had been attended witlcThe most gratifying results, and furnished a curious- barometer of the -internal state of the country. Accounts which had been presented to Parliament, and to which he wished to call' the at tention of the House, proved that these savings had progressively increased in every month op,to the sth s gf April. The increase had in alMost every instance - been gradual and' progressiVe. !end at the latest period, a greater progressive iicrease appeared to have taken place than had been pre .viously. known.. Since the period he had !lamed, since the sth April, from 19,0004 to 20,0001. per week had-regularly been paid into the Bank of England upon account of Saving .13anks..-.When this %vas considered, from. the view which it gave of the condition of the middling and of the lower classes—from the indications whickit presented of the industry and wealth of the counfryiit might safely be assumed that there never waS:a period Which furnished a more gratifyilirdis play of the - safety of the country, and the stability of its resources. lie felt the more satisfaction in pointing out these things to the consider ation of the House, as indivicluals - Ailid'Vf'ere only in the habit of viewing public affairs through the medium of particular iii.ejUdkes,.Were accuS-, tomed to describe the country as exhausted, enervated, crippled in its resources, and unable to make those exertions which particular circum stances- might call `for. ,Such ideas were erro. Rebus: It was not true that other nations had gained advantages-over us. lie believed that England, compared with the other nations of Europe, would. be found to have its full share of .those blessings which peace might be expected to bring. This country had undoubtedly sub mitted to a greater effort of finance than had been made in any other. But this was the only country that had lessened its debt since the ter"- mination of the war, and in which taxes to the amount of many millions had been repealed. These circumstances were most gratifying sub jects for - reflection. Difficulties were still to be encountered, but greater difficulties had been triumphantly surmounted than any of those with which we had now to contend. What remained would, he 'doubted not, be van quished, as those which preceded them had been, by the wisdom of ParliaMent and the, firmness of the people.—(Loud cheer ing.)—lle then moved his first Resolution for a grant of thirteen . millions in Annuities -12,500,000/. for Great Britain; and 500,0001. for Ireland. Mr. MA.nEnt.iy wished, before he 'proceeded to make any obgervations on the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman, to ask one or two questionS. En the first place, the surptus of the Ways and Means of 1820, comprising both mo ney. paid on account, and that arising from the actual produce of the duties, appeared, from the statement which had been distributed, to Amount to 81,630/. The difference, however, between the estimate for the year 1820 and the sum raised was considerably more. By another item he ob served that the miscellaneous services for 1820 were charged at 2,444,1001., whereas only 2,100,000/. had, been voted for them. These• two points required explanation. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQuER, observed, with respect to the first point, that a part.of the overplus had been carried to the Consolidated 'Fund, and the remainder, by an ACt of Parlia ment of the present year, had been made appli cable to the supply of the year. With respect to the miscellaneous services, it was true that only 2,100,000/. was narged for them in the Budget of last year; but about 300,000/. had been previously voted for the service, he be lieved, of the militia;, but he was not quite sure whether it was under that head. Mr. MABEIME ir then rose and said, that the observations he should make would refer princi pally tattle Supplies. In the early part of the Session he had suggested a saving of upwards of two millions, but that suggestion had been re jected. The saving now stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman, he was sorry to say, was very small. .It was not proportioned to that economy Which the prederit situation of tho country so irn • tor:: sheer the nicessiif of this economy, he would' take a general vie* of the- state - of our financial affairs. The present 'interest upon the whole of our- debti . funded and unfunded, and including the Russian and Dutch loans and the Irish Annuities, amounted to 48,328,Mg.; and the money for which-this in terest was payable, had been borrowed on spe cific terms, and the lender had been . assured; that a Sinkingd Fund was expressly appropriated for its gradual . repayment. To think-of saving from such a fund as this, would undoubtedly be highly.unjust; except as to the five per-tents. from which ultimately he thought a qualified saving might be made to the amount of 1,600,000/. Upon the subject of •the debt he would say a few passing words. Much had been said in doors as , well as out of doors upon the propriety, the necessity of taxing it. He for one, however, thought that those who had embarked their pro perty in the Funds, had already made great sacri. , ficei upon occasions of public emergency. Gentle men talked of borrewing froni the Sinking Fund, but in his opinion it was•absolute fo i ll'y to talk of borrowin g ; it was taking aw a y f rom 'th e Si n ki ng Fund and diminishing the property ofJhe'Fun.d holder. This species of property•had contribut ed largely to the public tenders, as much, .he .be lieved, _since the beginning of the war, as 1-12th of its whole amount. He had, said enpngh to Justify his opinion that nothing Could with jus tice he saved from the interest of the debt ; but _on the . ..re' m mainder of the taxes, amounting .to 26 or 2t he_thought a__ considerable saying might bo - made—(Hear;- hear !)—from the Army, the Navy, the Ordnatic:i; and 'the Miscellanies: (Hear; hear, hear !)—With respect to the pro prietk of saving - from the Civil L he 'had his doubts ; but upon the points he had men tioned his opinion was clear, The Commit tee of 1818 had . ,recommended. certain , re luc tions, but not one of them had taken 'effect; and the annual expenditure had ur every' year exceeded the sum reCOMinended 'by the Com mittee. The Committee of 1818 . had, he thought, takenea fair and dispassionate View of the coml. try,.and sorry was he that the turbulence - of - the times was made an excuse'for :incurring apart of the present enormous expettco. The House and the other branches of the:Legislature had passed strong coercive laws,- abridging they liberties of the.people, and.althoUgh thodanger which ren dered. them- necessary was. a mere temporary d a ger, the laws thern e- selves had - been, made perma- Iteht, .*as the removal of those dangers Which he conceived rendered a: -considerable portion of the present expence altogetherenneceSSary: The expence of the. army might-be reduced atyleast.a million. Upon this subject he spOke with confi dence,.although he : had net taken an active part in the debates of the Session. The Hon. Member for Aberdeen had, very fortunately for the coun try,directedhis valuable exertions to this subject, and:had adopted a mode which must ultimately bring.about a reduction of public expence. He had hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would - himself' have proposed- a reduction of 10,000 men from the Army ; but to show the inconsis tency of Ministers on all subjects of, this nature, it was only. necessary to remind the. House, that -.when. _he (Mr. • Hume) proposed a .measure of economy, he was metAq a motion for the pre vious question ; that Ministers themselves after wards came -forward - with a set ..of resolutions speaking of 'the necessity of economy, and of vigilance over charges, relating to the manage ment. of Public Affairs, and that, subsequently they proposed and . caused a resolution .for 1,900,0001. more thanfthe sum recommended by the Committee of Finance as the limit of our ex pence.—(Hear, hear,: hear Right. Hon. Gentleman had adverted - to , the :Sinking Fund, but he (Mr. Maberle.y) -should not follow, him through a detail, composed. partly cf truth and partly of fiction. When the Audit Bill should be brought before the House, he would 'have a better opportunity of enlarging upon this subject', and he then ,most certainly should propose a More simplified mode Of keeping the public ac counts. He meant to propose something resembl ing :what was called by Merchants a Balance Sheet. The Right lion. Gentleman had been at some pains to spew the situation of the Sink ing Fund for the present year, but -his statement had been very confused. Indeed, it now appeared that a larger sum was due upon Exchequer Bills than the House had been informed of. .He be lieved the difference was not less than 4 or 500,000/. Upon this-subject also he was deter mined to move for a full and clear account. - . Sinking Fu‘nd lie thought absolutelynecessaryt sustain public credit; and had economy been resorted to at a proper thbe, the country would have had an efficient Sinking Fund, fully able to answer its intended purpose. In the year 1792 Mr. Pitt took an extended view of 'our financial situation, and proposed the permanency of the Sinking Fund; in order to bring the reduction of the Debt to an absolute 'certainty ; and how• far that Fund had been suffered to remain perma nent the House and the Country knew too well. —The people , wished for economy, but they wished it to come .from proper sources. They objected to the large standing Army and when the . people saw the facility with which excessive supplies were granted, they could not but be dissatisfied. Ile wits far from taking a gloomy view of the country. That could not be a gloomy view by which it was' seen that the country could supply 62 millions annually- for Taxes.. The making of new roads, -the erection of bridges, digging of canals, and enlargement of cities, sheaved that there had been an enormous increase of capital, and the country had a right ,to expect a progressive improvethent in every thing else. The country he certainly thought was in a'high state of affluence, and only wanted an economical Executive Government to make it perfectly happy. Whatever might be the con sequence; he trusted the country would keep faith with the national creditor. Distress, he admitted, prevailed among : peculiar . interests ; but time would do much, and the agriculturist would be 'relieved by a reduction of taxes, whiCh must necessarily occasion a fall_ in -the price of labour. . Mr...AsTELL had no desire to take away from the general satisfaction which must he: felt by ' -the licaist at the - sPeeeli - or the-Right_ rien.ithe Chancellor of the Exchequer ; but he could not refrain. from saying a word upon that. part of the speech which referred to the transactions be tween Government and theEast r lndia Company. That a large sum was dtie ict the Company no one. could doubt, and he was astonished to hear the Right Hon. Gentlemin talk :On the subject as he had. The Company had lent their_island of St. Helena to Government for the safe cus tody of Buonaparte, and had expended consider able. sums on- that account. - It was a fact that I payment of-a million of the debt had last - January been promised for the then ensuing May. Mr. CALCRAFT was, happy to learn from the statementof the Right Ilod. Gentleman that the. Revenue had been paid in ; but, he would ask, by what means had the. payment been obtained.,?, OucCode of Revenue Laws, had been supported and enforced in England by the Navy—in Ire land by the Army. The grand result of the Hon. Gentleman's - statement_ was i that Six-mil lions had 'been added Ito., the debt- of the country. What would' be said of a man in private life; who, with an income of 6.0,0001, per annum, had mat five or - six thousand a year at his command for the support of hiS family, the rest being swallowed up by the payment of loans and mort-: gages? Would it-not be said that hewai Avery improvident man ? .and his case, he (Mr. Cal craft) contended, was that of this . coun try.- 'We collected the -revenue , certainly, but at the expence. of the people. The distress of the country was extreme, and it could not be denied - ;.that it' was increased by the, takes. The., Right Honourable. Gentleman had alluded -triumphantly to the Saving ThinkS. Did the Right - lion. Gentleman not know of the general distress and want: of employinent whiCh. pre vailed, compelling great — numbers of the people to seek parish felief ? And -mould the Right lion. Gentleman then infer, from the state of the funds of the Saving Banks . i. that the 'lower orders of the people were in a state of prOsperity?' And was the House, after the grievous -catalogue which had beenirecapitulated„to .pass a vote ...which • would. say that .waa.state of things 'which ought to give .-satisfaction?': -Wonld, d i p :fli g ht . . -lion. Geiftletnan • say that - the six-or 'eight 'hundred millions, of . debt were an increase of the 'capital of the country ? It was, on the contrary, .a mortgage upon the land, and every'estate in the. ' country. was worth-,so..much less,in..proportian as the:ea:pal-debt of the country , was increased. Sir. Jou NEWPO:II:T:eaid fie - .should not trouble the House at : any length. He merely rose to. lay before the House a plain statement of the effect of excessive taxation upon the revenue of [reland, and to shew the fallacious view •of the subject wrath bad been taken by•the Right Hon. Gen tleman. opposite. In Ireland the effect of in creased taxation was the falling off of the, reve nue ; and he feared the same_result would ulti mately be found in England. When the taxation was so heavy as to break in upon capital, it was easy to see that the latter must be gra dually diminished and ultimately annihilated. The tax upon tobacco was -originally 9d in the pound. It was raised to Is., and the revenue then received less than it had received by the smaller tax. The same effect attended a rise in the AutieS upon malt and spirits and in the .arti cle of rum the deficiency‘was.particularly. de seiving of :attention. The tax •was originally ss. Sd. per gallon.. It was raised-to-10s., and the receipt in the•reyenue under the new tax was not one eleventh of. what it hadbeen under the old. —The articles he had meiitiorted might be called luxuries, but habit had rendered them necessa ries; and he produced these instances because the Right Hon. Gentleman had talked about the flattering state of the country. Indeed, when he recollected the many 'Petitions which had been presented to the House, complaining of the deep disticegs in the manufacturing. and agricul -611%1 interests, he was astonished at the language of the Right lion. Gentleman, who surety must h4ve disregarded the evidence of his own Before he .sat down he could not but notice that the leading Agricultural Gentlemen who com plained so loudly of distress, had in general either kept away from the House, or. taken no part in the discussion on the Supplies. • Mr. RicArtno said that the hopes 'held out by the Right Iron. Gentleman'respeqting,the Sink- ing Fund, when he introduced the last Budget, had not been realised. The National Debt had been increased last year by a sum 0f1.,7,2920441. in addition to. which five millions of Exchequer Bills had been 'funded, and an increased, defi ciency of 517,0001. had . occurred, and. Which should be' added to the already considerable surnsdeficient— The lion. Gent. here alluded to an error:-Of a sum of 87,0001. in the Treasury AcCounf . s,JOr the purpose of showing how little reliance could be placed .upon -them. lie con tended that' we had contracted a debt of upwards of '24 millions.. The. fron. Gehtleman here fol lowedf-the -Right4lon..Gentleman (the. Chancel lor of the '.ExChe(Wr) through the different items, and contended that in most instances he'ltad made deduCtions . in which the documents didlnot bear him out. The Sinking Fond for ... the year appeared to be really but. 2,809,000/., and the principal hope of the Right. Hon. Gentleman was, that the Revenue - would - Continue to ,be as pro ductive as• at present. 'On the subject of the Sinking Fund, he would say a few - words. lie was not inimical to its principle, provided that its. , security Could be rende - red inviolable. The lion. Gent. here entered into the history of the establishment, of the . Sinking Fund' by Mr. Pitt, by which that Statesman had intended, by placing its receipts in the Bank. of England, to .protect it from the rapacity of Ministers 7; and he (Mr. R.) would ask what.had become of it ? When taking 7 millions from that Fund, the Hon. Gentleman spoke in such terms as if he had discovered an inexhaustible mine of wealth.—(Hear sooth, his great fears were, not that the country would be overwhelmed by poverty, but', that it would be' ruined by the increase of its prospe rity.—(Hear, hear - I)—lfe (Mr. Ricardo) would assert that no accumulation of capital could pos-, sibly be injurious to,the country„ and he, would contend that taking 7frorn the Sinking Fund was a.gross~violatio❑ of faith ,with the •public'c.redi tor, even though it had been dope. with ale sanc tion áf Parliament--- - -and yet, after that, the Right 'Hon. Gentleman would talk of the Sinking Fund. He (Mr..kidardo). would say. that the Sinking Fund should be is the,pDekets of the people ; and that in its present state th e Si n ki ng F un d was ri diculOus. The Hon. Gent. here read an extract from•the speech of Mr,Pitt in•1792,0n the subject of the Siliking - Funcl,and said that Minister's having , Violated that Fungi, he could not confide .in them,- for, which reason he. , should .vote against that 'Fund altogether.. He did .not mean, however, to say that the Public creditor ought not to have security, but he would ever .object to the placing Of any Funds in the power, or at the' disposal of Ministers., He approved of ,the principle ,of Saving Ranks, and mentioned some instances in which that principle might be applied Co . advan tage; and concluded iv dissenting' fronth . e rea sons given by the ,Right Hon. Gentlenian:fOr. payment made to the Rank of England. Mr. LOCKHART said, a design had been buted tho' Gentlemen of the Agricultural lii terest to propose a tax Upon . the Funds. should never propose it himself, for he was satin- feed that the. necessity of the case would press it self, and ultimately force a law for its elief. Not one Petition from the Agricultural Interest proposed any tax upon the Funds. The general statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman he viewed with considerable apprehension, because the Right lion. Gentle,man dealt in figures, and he (Mr.•l_,.) in substance. He had heard 'a great deal said about the magnanimity shown .by the fandholder. He could see little magonnimity in receiving double the sum originally stipulated o n the, contracting of a. debt. The magnanimity he thought was.all On one side, and the profit on the other. It never could be denied that, looking at the altered value of produce, the _country was.,, paying double what it ought to pay ; and the only relief which could be obtained for the country was that which would result from a system of rigid economy, and an equalization of the public burthens with respect to all classes of the com munity. Mr. RICARDO and . Mr. MAntaLEY . explained. Sir..H. PARNELL thought there was a material. difference between the present statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman and that he had made in the year 1819. The amount of both statements was simply this—that three millions of new. taxes bad • - been - imposed, and yet that only 700,000/. of, revenue had been added to the Sinking Fund. • -He (Sir Henry) thought the sources of taxation.had.been exhausted, and that there.was an end to all increase of our revenue. He coniidered the poSsibility that our present situation . of peace might be disturbed, as an addi tional reason fOi retrenchment ; as• we otherwise should be altogether unable to provide for a•war. . The CHANCELLOR of the•Excutonen, at that late h'our Of the . night - , - thought it - scarcely neces sary- to address the, House, except 'to offera fling explanation. In . deciding "On this course, and in not answering the Hon.. .Members oppo site, he - had no wish to off e r the slightest . disre spect.; bu.t they had 'princiPally answered och laUgh.)—lte had given no opinion on the Jostice of the East India debt. He had, merely, stated that the account . had' not been brought to a settlement, an d th a t there. we're din poled claimS. He thought the plan suggested by. Mr. Woodrow,: and ceferied to, by the, Hon. Member- for Portarlingtop,-- : .Was objectionable. The advantage 'held out t& subscribers would'. b)a too remote. :Saving Banks were much more Ad 'yantageous. on account of theirsimplicity, and th.st immediate 4.dvantige which they offered. Mr. Hume disapproved of. the conduct of Mi nisters in'keeping:up an enormous and unneces sary expenditure, when it 'was in their power to make very considerable savings. For some years_ past, the expences of collecting tho. Revenue, so far from being reduced as they might lie,, had. been progressively increased.. In Scotland, they had been increased' from 5 to :81-• per cent. 'Hie contended that, by the, reduction. whiCti. it was in the poWer of 11.7inisters• to have made is this branCh alone, an annual - Sum of 1,400,0031.. • might have been saved to the country ; ' and, - w hen it was considered that during•the last six. years, there . had been a decrease in all th e neces saries of life, the expences in all the, public de- 'partmentS'might have I)een greatly diminished. He next alluded. to,- the enormous expence that . had been incurred by the detention of Buona-,. parte, in consequence of which a Million •of money was now. due by the Government to the. East, India. Company—the. whole expences were two millions ; and all these had, during the last_ five years, been kept from the knowledge of thif House. He begged that the House might not be led .astray by any extravagant prospects that might be held out respecting the Sinking Fund, which- were altogether fallacious ; for it appeared • that, instead of a Sinking Fund of five millions, which had : been proposed and prOmed years ago, the . fund amounted to no - more than - • 1,500,0001. ; .so that, in this alone, there wal'a : deficiency of three millions and a half. ;At the very - time when - this Sinking Fund was proposed, he,(Mr. flume) stated that one .million must b 4 paid as interest on. Exchequer Bills,--an expence which, al the time, was kept from the view of the House: • • . • . . .Mr..f.r.r.teE could se e no reason f or not g i v i ng up the Sinking Fund altogether. It made us ap pear to foreign nations in darker.colours than we really were, by shelving our nominal rather • than our substantial Pebt.,.. He agreed. that the receipts of our. Revenue had •a flourishing ap-:: pearance, but his hopes of a reduction of expence had not been realized, and he. was satisfied ihat Government would not reduce unless reduction were forced upon them. At the same time he Avas happy, he was proud to find the state of the: 'country.so much better than he: had expected it. —('Near, hear!) The first Resolution .was, then put and agreed., 'next was for the appropriation ‘ of a z part of the Sinkii!g Fund for the public service, as stated-in the speech of the Chancetior of the Exchequer.—Upon the question being put, Mr. flumt: begged, th oug h it was not.exactly regular, to bring under the notice of the Chan.; ictqlor of the Exchequer the detailed manner 'in; 'which the charge was made for Naval Stores. Those for the Ordnance, he thought, should be'