The Sun. — London, England, 1839-04-24 00:00:00

VEING EDITION. COURT CIRCULAR. viscount Melbourne had an audience of the Queen Yesterday. D h e r Majesty, [accompanied by her R o y a l Hi g h ness th e ucess of Kent, ho no ured the Italian Opera House with her presence, last evening. The Royal suite inclu3ed the Count ess o f Charle mont,bLady Flora Hastings, Hon. Mr. Blau,?, Marquis of Headford, Right Hon. George Stevens t 3 Yng, Hon. William Cowper, and Colonel Buckley. The half-length Portrait of the Queen, from Mr. Chalon's picture, engraved by Mr. W ags t a ff, was yester day su b mitted to her Majesty. The Duchess of Gloucester visited the Princess Au gusta yesterday. had Thpeh 013riys,h3Apirof Sodor and Man, Mr. Pease, M. P. , Mr. . Bowes M. P., and Mr. Ilarland, M. P., interviews with Lord ' Julio Russell yesterday at the Home Office. • bm Sir Hu ssey Vi vian had an interview with Viscount Mel yesterday in Downing -street. The Lord Chancellor will 71.0 i hold his Levee on Satur day next, of which a notice has been erroneously given in the newspapers. . The Com mander of the Forces and Mr. Buxton had in.. terviews with the Marquis of Normanby yesterday at the Colo nial -office. Count &nth transacted business yesterday at the Fo reign Office. Despatches from Colonel Doherty, Governor of Sierra Leone, were received yesterday at th e C o l on i a l Offi ce. had The M em b ers of the Naval and Military Commission a meeting yesterday at the official residence of Vis coun t Melb ourne in Downing--street. The Duke of Wellington, REafl.of Minto, Lord Hill, Sir Hussey Vivian, Sir Thomas b were 'ru Sir H enry H ardinge, and other Commissioners present. M The Right H on. T . Grenville entertained at dinner, on —4n alY, his Grace the Archbishop of York Lord and Ley Franci s Egerton, Lord and Lady Mahon, , and a se lect party. METR OPOLITAN POLITICAL S UMNIA I: y. Th e T. erne of is mornin still continues its " la" fo t he result of s the t l h ate Irish discussion in the House m of ent Com r rnis ° na- " The Irish debate," quoth our afflicted Contemporary, Ov er, but not the recollections and responsibilities eon ()fleeted with it. Evidence, full and fearful, has been given f . the utter insecurity of that unhappy country which her slajesty's Ministers insult by the assertion that it has en 3°Yedein effectual administration of the law, Evidence, no less conclusive, has been adduced, that the principles of the Whig Government have been among the leading causes and m eans of this mischief. The narrow majority wh o , in the face of such a mass of testimony, have voted against all inquiry, will find thei devoti o n t o the reign ing Whigs a very insufficient r excuse to their con st!tuents The inquiry which they so naturally dread "ill go on, despite their attempt to stifle it; it is work i_ng in the C ommittee of the House of Lords; and We can tell th em i t i s working in the mind of the public. i W a b en we say that the di s t ur b e d state o f I reland, and the effectual administration of the law, are ma i n l y owing to the misconduct of the Government, do we mean to have it understood t h at the Government have an object in the that i ti l a i v e i a n t g a i " of outra ges i n I re l an d ? C erta i nly not; but great object in the encouragement of the party from whi c h t h ese outrages proceed, they have par tined the crimes of Ireland from favour to her criminals." One would imagine from these remarks that Ireland had never been disturbed, nor the laws violated there, until the present Ministry came into office. Tbat such things as Insurrection Acts had never been heard of during the Tory regime. That the sister -country was thon all tran- S n illity and contentment ; and that now for the first time it is in a state little short of absolute anarchy. Such is Timesthe inference to be drawn from the above passage in the Ti mes; but hi story , w i t h a pen steeped in blood, tells a far . story. The Morning Chronicle, in the course of a leading article on the subject of further Reform, urges these observe tioas :— What is the real o pi n i on o f Ministers on the re turn of the Tories to power? Do they regard it as a probability? Do they deprecate it as a calamity? If so, we would gladly learn by what means they would aim at its prevention. To suppose that the course they have pursued will answer the question is little less than sheer fatuity. Not merely has it cut down their majority, even on the strongest point of their practical policy, to almost the smallest number that consists with the retention of office; but the fact is now distinctly brought out that t hey are only upheld by a contingent support which, °n any day, and on many questions, may be suddenly withdrawn. What then do the Ministry intend to Cs? If they decline to aid in the reconstruction of a Re. form party, it must be reconstructed without their aid. The existing and prepared materials for such a party will soon shape themselves into form and order. With union, independence, and principle fur their policy, Reform for their banner, and the people at their backs, they will com bat Toryism by anti-Toryism—the only permanent success ful mode of warfare--and leave Tory- Whiggism to its fate, neither responsibl e for its fall, nor tainted by its disgrace. The Ballot is obviously the first practical change that should be the object of Parliamentary effort." The Morning Herald makes • the following remarks on the New Poor-law Bill, suggested by a petition presented by Lord Stanhope last night in the House of Lords:— " We have long been aware that the Poor-rates are ra pidly increasing. We believe that these rates are increas ing univers a lly. Such a result is inevitable. The New Poor-law, false as it is in its principles, and inhuman in its tendencies, is too clumsily framed to secure even the great end for which it was professedly devised—diminished ex pense to rate-payers. The field of employment is liable to be narrowed at any moment by influences over which the labouring poor have no contr o l ; an d th e di rect e ff ect of th e New Poor-law is to punish men who live by the sale of their labour, for results to which bad laws and dishonest g 'Pc ulation! on th e p art o f tra d ers are, from time to time, in brth. Such a law i s , i n it s u l t i mate results, in inPatiblei with the existence of social orderi n its "Mediate effects suc h a law tends to lessen fearfull the atoek of soci a l ki n d ness. " y Th , Morning Advertiser, speaking on the su bj ec t o f t h e b N avy' saYs:—" It is a di s gr ace t o G roat B r i ta i n to treat best defenders With so much severity that her ships Of L tr i,n entergenci es cannot b e manne d b ut b y the cruel and ep—trclitng sy udsstem of impre ss m en t. A country s h ou ld never its defence to thosed forced into its service. On the contrary, it would be far more judicious so to improve th e condition of our men-of-war, that admission to the ser lee should become an object of competition, not of abhor leftleceThe condition of the sailor should not at least be ,asitis at present, worse than that of the convict. It i s not hat we a re so d es i rous of increasing our naval strength or of p utt i ng a greater number of ships in co mission,rne as o f i mproving the condition of those already empl oyed. . The Morning Post, in a leading article on the present State fpartie, remarks as follows The Radicals are drunk with vanity, and believe in the possibility of excit inge country to coefide in their management. We be lieve.in no such possibility That is not the present dis position of the British 'n;tion, nor is there any prospect that it soon will be, The Irish Romanists, led by their crafty ecclesiastics, are the only great- branch of the p u e r o p p o le se; thats can at p resent be depended on for revolutionary Pand th e E nglish have now learned to look upon he Irish machination s with wholesome suspicion. The leaders of the Movement are, we think, to aliy wrong in their estimation of their own strength, but we should not be surprised if they sought an opportunity of making trial Of it; and for our own parts we caic not how soon." ISLE OF WIGHT. IURSIDAY, APRIL 23.—. A tlrge ship, the Henry David sOn, Rainer, f rom L on d on f or Jamaica, with passengers, run on shore last night, between Lurcombe Chain and Dunnose—it was very thick, aad but little wind, that right off the land. The sea was smooth as a mill-pond ;at 6 a.m., when our informant left, she had her topsails aback, and was heaving on two anchors astern. The Adder cut ter was rendering every assistance, as were a number of fishermen and Preventive men from the station. The shore is rocky, but being what are called flatners, and there being no sea, she will probably be got off this tide, without much damage. The Protector bark, Edgar, with a general cargo from London, for A:atigua, also went on shore nearly at the same time, at Puckster, near Itick d enend b -- sh i : is making some water, and a barge is alongsi ei ig_se n hey ! she is in , a mo re d a ngerous situation than the Henry Davidson, avou ra ae . as W there i s more sw ell, but the wind, .S. W., is f b LLOYD'S SHIPPING.-(THIS DAY.) DEAL, APRIL 93. Wind, W S. W., squally.—Arrived,the Reform, from westward ; Raven, ditto ; Vernon , Madeira. Airived from the river, Navarine, Warning, for Sydney, N ew South Wales; Agostina, Perry, Culcutta ; Active, Hick, Constantinople. PORTSMOUTH, APRIL 23.--Wind S. W.—Ayrive tie ftgle, parki n , fioin L on don, with loss of jibboom, & c ., having been i n contact, off the owcrs , with the Mariner of T 'endon • Iris, Mackwo , d, Cejlon ; Mariner.—Sailed, th n e e. Lancer, Mowbray, and Atlas , Smit h, G u lf of St. Law " PLYMOUTH, Amt. 23 --Wind W. S. W.—Arrived, tl.e t B Pe , ia, Hooper, f om Reguejaba. El 1111. i 1d N. W. to W.—Sailed, the V. zabeth May, Canaries; Liverpo ol steamer, Burne y , a ; ut back, Thames steamer, Williamson, Dob _ w ith damag e t o machinery. I..!..IVILRPJOL APRIL 0 3.—Wind W.N.W.—Arrived the M'Nullage, from Charleston ; Queen Victoria, Maass, Port Medway • Caroline, Jones, St. Michael's ; itura, Weeks, Terceira ' ; Bombay packet, Wyllie, san).; Gertrude, Lisbon ; Sophie, Garling, Ostend. t i )_ El the Savanilla, Ridley, for Carthagena. N e ___ks APRIL 23.—Arrived off, the Esthorica, from jweeastle, for Alexandria. 4 4 . 4881 ', APRIL 20.—Arrived the Hebe, from Rio !ire, and sailed act 21st for Antwerp; Jane, Savage, • Sailed the Harmony, for Newfoundland. H un :m i l-TN, APRIL 22.—Sailed the Duke of Gordon, chliP n reY, for S . . Domingo • Culloden, Davis, Valencia ; Mark, Penny, Leghorn. :" 8 the nO VER, A PRIL 23, 1839. —Their Excellen e Cour.t and Countess Sebastiani arrived this after °° from Londe n, and e nbarked immediately, under a tea from t h e Western heights, in the steamer Water , Captain Hayward, for Calais. The Countess Ludolf, relict of the late regretted Count Ludolf, the Neapolitan Minister, has returned to tae residence of her friend the Lady Hamlyn Williams, in _ outh- street, fr om h er Ladyship ' s villa at Norwood. The -,'o unt ess intend s , we b elieve, to fix her future residence ! 1 .0 this country, a n d as t h e Count left only a small private h er % rtune, the Ki ng of the Two Sicilies, it is said, will grant liberal of th e first class ion ' as the widow of a diplom a ti c Mi n i ster di /Es FOUND.--Yesterday morning th e bo o e a ßon .of two resp ecta bl y d resse d young men were found voati n g" Yare between Vauxh a ll B r id ge an d Ch e l sea College, pposed to be those lof the young men wh o were 'M off Wa nd‘worth Meadows. 4........._ NATIONAL CONVENTION. (TUESDAY.) On the motion of Mr. SKEVINGTON, Mr. Warden, Delegate from Balton, took the chair. The Secretary having read over the proceedings of yesterd,y, Mr. NEESOM begged to introduce to the Convention Mr. Joseph Williams as the new Member for East Sur rey and Lambeth. Mr. HARTWELL begged to enter his protest against Mr. Williams being received as the Delegate for East Surrey and Lambeth ; he was duly elected to represent East Surrey alone, and not Lambeth. Mr. O'CONNOR was sure that Mr. Williams would do his duty by those who sent him there, no matter which of the places lie represented.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. NhEsom was present at the meeting held yester day on Kennington-common, and he distinctly stated that Mr. Williams was elected by a large majority for both places. Dr. FLETCHER would say that it was of very great importance that the particular place which a Delegate represented should be named. He thought the public notice calling the meeting which went to elect a Delegate was enough to decide the election ; but it was necessary to show that this notice had been distributed properly. Hear, hear.) Mr. O'CoNrion—The meeting being a public one was prima facie evidence of its being a proper one to make an election. Mr. MILLS—It seemed to him that the Convention was placed in very peculiar circumstances, by one Mem ber introducing a new Delegate as representing a par ticular district, and another Member protesting against the .eligibility of the . Delegate so introduced. He thought their best course would be to appoint a Select Committee to investigate the subject.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. O'CONNOR protested against such a line of con duct being adopted by the Convention as Mr. Mills recommended. There was not, of all the bad practices indulged in by the House of Commons, one that de served so much reprehension as the manner in which they decided on objected returns of Members to serve in Parliament ; and it was, he thought, the duty of the Convention not to imitate them in this part of their con duct. If a Committee was to be appointed it should be a Committee of the whole House.—(llear, hear.) He also thought that one meeting held in a particular place could not elect a Delegate for two places. He thought fiat Mr. Williams would be satisfied to take his seat for East Surrey alone. Mr. LOVETT said the circumstances were really these. Mr. Westerton, a gentleman of talent and of true pa triotism, had by great exertion got up in the neighbour hood of Wandsworth, Kennington, Putney, and the surrounding districts, Associations for the purpose of carrying out the subjects of the Charter—which Asso ciations had organized the tratlesmen, principally dyers —had obtained many signatures to the petition, and proceeded to collect the rent with great success—and finally, resolved to bold a meeting for the purpose of electing a Delegate to the Convention for that district. —( Hear, hear.) The Democratic Association marched to this meeting yesterday in thousands, and op posed with success the election of Mr. Westerton, who was supported by the people who knew him well. He thought it would form a bad precedent, if it were allowed that Mr. Williams should be permitted to take his seat as Member for both places. The same line of conduct was about being adopted by the Democratic Association in Stepney and/other places, where elections were purposed to be had during the ensuing week. Mr. O'CoNNoR said in his opinion the Convention was bound to receive Mr. Williams as the Delegate of the Working Men of East Surrey—he appeared in the dress of a working man, and he hoped to God the men of SpitalEelds would send them a Delegate without either shoes or stockings. Ile therefore moved that Mr. Williams be received as a Member for East Surrey. Mr. NsEsou seconded the motion. Mr. HARTWELL did not oppose the reception of Mr. Williams for East Surrey, he merely protested against his being received as the Member for Lambeth. He was elected for the London districts in an open meeting, which was called by circulars distributed all round London, and until he was found fault with by a meet ing as freely called, he would continue to think himself the representative of the working men of London, not withstanding the under workings of the Democratic Association. He therefore would oppose the reception of Mr. Williams as Member for Lambeth, and lie would, on the same ground, any of these new elections for the Metropolitan distri c t s . Dr. FLETCHER said the Convention ought to have the credentials of the member who had been introduced. He had been introduced as Member for Lambeth, and when that was called in question, it was at once changed for East Surrey. Ho thought it was a matter of much importance, for he suspected that there was a foul conspiracy afloat to swamp the Convention, and he further suspected that Mr. Williams had joined it. He a I heard him say that the people should meet in hun dreds or one hundred and twenties, and choose their Delegates from the Democratic Association, and then they might swamp the Convention. His constituents were determined that they would not be controuled by any portion of the people of London.—(Cheers.) Ac cording to the Democrat of last week, it appeared that they had now Jacobin Clubs, which were trying to overawe the Convention. He hated all such mockery of the French Revolution.—(Cheers.) There was no feature in it which was so very gratifying to the people of England. He, if they were to be con trolled, would like to see the names of the As sociation—to know their residences—and how they got their livelihood. It was their duty to watch over the elections. The present Member had been intro duced for one place—that was given up when questioned, and another selected. The election having been called in question, it was impossible that they could receive him without his credentials. Mr. CARDO said that London was not represented in districts. Dr. FLETCHER explained. Mr. SANKEY said that about - a fortnight ago it had been specially stated that a meeting would take place an Kennington Common, for the purpose of electing a Delegate, and Lambeth was one of the places stated, and therefore he thought Mr. Williams should be re ceived as Member for Lambeth, as more than ten days notice had been given in this case. Mr. AlooltE rose to move the adjournment of the con sideration of this return until the bills convening the meet ing should be produced, and the credentials obtained. If the bills say that tha meeting was convened for the purpose of electing a Delegate for East Surrey, and for Lambeth, then they were bound to receive Mr. Wil hams as such, but if the bills mentioned East Surrey only, then he could only sit for East Surrey ; he ex pressed deep regret that Dr. Fletcher should suffer himself to be taken out of his course by those who, in comparison with himself, were mere pigmies. Mr. FEARGUS O'CONNOR would withdraw his pro position for the purpose of seconding Mr. Moore's amendment, and he merely did so to comply with a point of form. They had important duties to perform, and ought not to let themselves be led away by techni nicalities. With regard to what had been said about Jacobins Clubs, he knew nothing of the existence of such Clubs, but if Jacobin Clubs were capable of infusing knowledge and energy into the Convention, he would as soon that knowledge and that energy should come fro m Jacobin Club as from any other club. He was sorry that any Member of the Convention should dread any infusion of democracy whether from a Jacobin Club or a Democratic Association. He did not dread the intro ductions f any one possessing over-zeal. There was judgme►. , . sufficient in the Convention to soften any over -zeal. He preferred over -zeal to over-caution, which was like a spark smouldering among embers. It was not an uncommon thing for the people of one district to attend elections in another. The Preston people had attended at Blackburn. All he asked was, whether the Democratic Association was an Association of the peo ple ? and if so, they had a right to attend that meeting. He himself had not been aware, until yesterday, that the election was to take place, and had never heard the name of Mr. 'Williams until this day. He considered that his election was valid,"and was sorry the Convention dreaded an infusion of democracy. Ho hoped the De mocratic Association, whenever an election was held in London, would go with all the force they could muster, and hold up their hands.—(Cheers, and cries of " No.") If he thought that that Association had held secret clubs and committees for the purpose of taking advan tage of the Convention, be (Mr. O'C.) would take his name off the rolls of the Association, if he thought they practised in the dark that which they dared not avow in public. There were many members of that Association present who could bear witness that they had never held any conversation with him on political subjects, and they would show that it was unlikely they had adopted any secret proceeding on this subject. Dr. Fletcher had said that those who returned him were able to write their names and point out their places of abode ; what was this but Household Suffrage ? (Cheered Mr. SKEVINGTON deniod that it was Universal Suf frage to allow bodies of men to perambulate the country and control elections. Mr. CARDO supported Mr. Moore's amendment. The Convention had no power to refuse Mr. Williams. The Democratic Association had last night held a meeting in Smithfield, supporting the Charter, and had thus carried the movement into the City. Mr. LOVETT said that it was an important point that had been alluded to by the last speaker, because Tories might be sent into the Convention which would destroy their union. On union their lives depended, and persons might obtain admittance who, by their speeches, might place their lives in jeopardy, and he thought they had a right to interfere with those sent here in opposition to the objects of the Convention. Mr. NEESOM regretted the course the discussion had taken. Mr. MILL' supported Mr. Moore's amendment. Dr. FLETCHER explained. Mr. BUSSEY contended that Mr. Williams had a right to sit until evidence of the invalidity of his elec tion had been produced by the objecting parties. Mr. WHITTLE agreed with Mr. Bussey. He had no objection to members of clubs attending elections as individuals, but was fearful of clubs degenerating into cabals. Mr. CLEAVE also protested against the interference of the Democratic Association, and expressed his disappro • bation of those who showed their approbation of the French Revolution by styling themselves Murat and Robespierre, which was likely to prejudice the Conven tion in the eyes of those whose support would be of ser vice to them. Mr. HARNEY had been present at the election yes terday, which had been conducted in a proper manner, and he would assert that Mr. Williams had been elected in ac fair a manner as any Member of the Convention — Members of the Democratic Association were present, but as a body they took no part in the proceedings. Several Members denied this. The CHAIRMAN called to order, and— Mr. HARNEY resumed—He would repeat what he had said—As a body that Association had taken no part. The sections of that Association never met in secret to conspire ; all their meetings were public ones; and as to their being divided into sections, other so cieties, also, were divided into different sections. The National Union of the Working Classes was a case in point. Mr. Westertoti was put in nomination, but it did not follow that he must be elected.—(Hear, hear.) He was present at the election, but he took no part in it, because he formed one of the Convention, though some Members of the Convention did interfere with the election in favour of Mr. Westerton. Mr. Williams was fairly elected yesterday, and, according to the hills, he represented East Surrey, but still it was the general understanding of the men of Lambeth, the Delegate was to represent them also ; and if the question was put to the vote, he would feel himself bound to vote that Mr. Williams was Member for Lambeth, as well East Surrey. It was not true that the Democratic Association had marched to the meeting with their banners. The flags were his own and he had lent them to the committee of the day. He denied that the Asso ciation ever attempted to put down or controul the Convention, but they were not contented with the mode in which the London Delegates had been elected, and thought they ought again to go back to their constituents. —( Hear, hear.) He denied in the strongest manner that the Democratic Ass.ociation had ever attempted to exereise any controul over the Convention ; such a measure had never been mooted amongst them. He knew thathe had the people on his side and he was not to be put down because it was said that he was a favourer of the French revo lutionhe was for its virtues, not for its vices. He would rejoice in the name of Jacobin, and posterity would yet do them justice. 111 r. HARTWELL gave an account of the election of Mr. Williams in order to prove that the election was for East Surrey, and not for Lambeth. The motion for the adjournment of the question was then put and agreed to. Mr. CARDO handed in 3/. from the West London Democratic Association for the Borough of Maryle bone, as National Rent. His constituents complained that the rent they had formerly paid did not appear as if coming from them. They had called twenty-six meetings, and they had never come to the Convention for any of the expenses attendant upon them. Mr. CLEAVE said there was no question before the Chair. Mr. CARDO would not be put down. His consti tuents had been charged with not doing their duty, and he was bound to defend them from such an un founded charge. Mr. HARTWELL said the question had better be dropped. He must deny all that had fallen from Mr. Cardo. Mr. BUSSEY thought the whole of the members had run mad that morning.--(A laugh). He would move that the Convention take no notice of these disputes. The conversation then dropped. Mr. SANKEY had been down to meet his consti tuents, and they were most enthusiastic in support of the Convention, and had sent up by him a Scotch note. In 1825 they showed their determination, when small notes were attempted to be put down ; they were now d oecer in d ogrnAch e oi r .l2noe m a:aoashei i nd addition rent i d ,(t:)i o t of o ro: tsmoigupholdtEnhacoit those une signatures rr e gmt to the formerly hy a erHrt reported, petition t had ttdei l odt no, e msf t aa : then i h i e E thatc equally o : 1g l br e t oi all. Mr. forgot additional to s asyi signatures he had fro u that i m a r o y r i n e • bone.• Several letters, approving of the proceedings of the Association, were read by the Secretary. SIMULTANEOUS MEETINGS. ♦ report from the Simultaneous Meetings Committee was read, and was as follows : The Convention having decided on the propriety of holding simultaneous meetings in different parts of the country, in order that such determination may be carried into effect, recommend the publication of the following Address : " TO THE PEOPLE OF GREAT BRITAIN. "Entrusted by the industrious classes with the Na tional Petition for presentation to the House of Com mons, it becomes the duty of the Convention to lay before the people of Great Britain the opinion which they have formed from observation and conversation. It is the opinion of the Convention that the House of Commons will not accede to the prayer of the Petition —that leave to bring in a Bill founded on the Na tional Petition will be refused. In that case the functions of the Convention will cease. The Conven tion will then separate and return to their homes ; or they will receive fresh instructions from their consti tuents. To give the people of Great Britain an oppor tunity of deciding on the propriety of abandoning the cause in which they were engaged, or to direct what ulterior measures shall be adopted, the Convention re commend that public meetings shall be holden in as many places as possible during Whitsun week. The Con vention earnestly advise the people of Great Britain to be careful in the consideration of this all-important sub ject, for one more important was never submitted to the consideration of any nation. The conduct of the ruling powers for the three last months, con viuccs the Convention that it is in vain for the people to expect relief from those in authority. The Convention have no hopes oth er th an i n the rfirmness and energy of the people. Be careful then, people of Great Britain ; he in council wise—in action prompt. Delegates from the Convention will attend as many of these meetings as their number will admit. The Con vention advise that Committees be formed for carrying these recommendations into effect, and that information as to time and place of meeting be transmitted as soon as possible to the Convention." Mr. Moor.e moved the adoption of the address. Mr. SKEVINGTON seconded the proposition of Mr. Moore. Mr. CARPENTER felt great reluctance in opposing the adoption of this report, and this reluctance was much increased from the report having received the very best attention of the Committee who had drawn it up, and who had unanimously agreed to it.—(Hear, hear.) At the same time Ise would not be doing his duty to his numerous constituents if he did not dissent from that part of it which inculcated the principle, that the people had no reliance on the result of the Petition. He believed there was no mem ber of this Convention had any doubt on this subject, but still he would consider it imprudent to give any expression on this question to the country at large. Seeing, however, that the chief object of the Convention in being brought together was to have the Petition pre pared in the most effective manner, and that it should be presented in a shape so as to conduce to its success, he did think that the duty of the members was this, and that no steps should be omitted to ensure the passing of the Charter into law.—(Hear, hear.) He thought it would be great dereliction of duty in them if they put it forth that their mission or function went further than this. We have no right to say that this Petition will not be effective, no matter how much we are of a con trary opinion.—(llear, hear.) Mr. SANKEY—Much had been done to forward the great cause in which they were embarked, which this Address had kept out altogether. If the House of Commons refused the prayer of the Petition, he thought that the Convention should continue to dischar g e those functions which they had undertaken to do.--(Hear.) Ile would move an amendment that the report be sent back for reconsideration.--( Hear.) Mr. O'CONNOR—Mr. Carpenter seemed to think that although we were unanimous, the people outside were not. Their duty hitherto was but a preliminary step, mere matter of form ; it was only the bringing on of the question to the Court. All they had to do was to bring the Petition to the House of Com mons, and wait to see the event of its success, and then be guided as to what they should do in future. Notwithstandine• the misunderstanding that had taken place, it would be difficult to find a body of men who had done their duty better than had the members of the Convention. Universal Suffrage will yet come, like a thunder-shock—it shall overspread the land with the rapidity of lightning.—( Hear, hear.) If we go to the country, and tell them that we had no anticipation of the petition being unsuccessful, will they believe us ? Will they not say they were de ceived ?—( Hear.) He could not undertake to tell the people that he had any expectation from the House of Commons more than that address expressed —(Hear, hear.) He did not think that the small gleam of sun shine which Mr. Sankey thought to produce would be effective in dispelling the clouds which were hanging over them.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped, that as the Address had been the subject of much deliberation, and of great labour to the gentlemen forming the Committee, those opposed to it would withdraw their amendment. He thought it so much in point, its sentiments said so much in so little compass, and gave the people to under stand what it meant, that it would not be prudent to withdraw it.—(Hear, hear.) It was so short that the people could see in it at once that they had nothing to expect from the House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. CARPENTER explained. Mr. WHITTLE concurred entirely with the view taken by Mr. O'Connor. They did not declare that the object for which they were assembled was hopeless. Mr. Carpenter appeared to be labouring under a mis• conception, because that object was to bind the people , together in support of the Charter. The fact of the non-yielding of the House of Commons was a fact of no importance. Mr. ROGERS wished the Convention not to step out of their way to assert that of which they had no proof. He would ask if the House of Commons was worse now than when the people were called upon to sign the Petition. Mr. O'CONNOR—Worse within the last month. Mr. ROGERS believed it to be as had as it ever was. but not worse, than it. had been months ago. If Mr, Sankey's motion went so far as to hold out any expecta tion of good from the House of Commons, he should oppose it, but it did no such thing—why should the Convention hold that language before the petition was presented which they could only hold after ? Their strength consisted in their sitting as a petitioning body ; would they cast this shield from them at once, and enable the advisers of the Crown to say that they had only assumed the cloak of a petitioning body as an eva sion of the law ? He should support the amendment. Mr. MILLS would not give any Members of the House of Commons the opportunity of saying they had prejudged the case. He should support the amendment. Mr. BUSSEY denied that any false hopes had been held out to the people. The only way to obtain their rights was from the fears of the House. He thought it would be right to state the Convention sat because it had a Constitutional right to do so. Mr. BURRELLS supported the amendment. Dr. FLETCHER—They were bound to express their expectation of meeting a refusal from the House of Commons. He admitted that they sat under the cloak of being a petitioning body, and the men of the North held their meetings under this cloak, because the right of petitioning was almost the only Constitutional right they had left. The amendment was then put from the chair and lost, and the original motion carried. Mr. O'CONNOR withdrew his motion for a grant of money, for the purpose of holding general meetings, in timating his intention on a future day to move for a grant of money to convey several Delegates to the dif ferent meetings and back again, leaving it to the meet ings themselves to make any necessary arrangements. BIRMINGHAM MISSION, AND IMPUTATIONS AGAINST THE MISSIONARIES. Dr. PLETCHER proceeded to relate to the Convention all the facts connected with his late Mission to Bir mingham and its neighbourhood, in company with Dr. Taylor and Mr. Carpenter. When he arrived in Bir mingham, on Friday week, he found that a plan had been determined on by the Committee of Observation, sitting in that place, under whose directions the Missionaries were instructed to act. The three Missionaries directed to proceed to their different dis tricts, accompanied by a person selected by the Com mittee, to whom each Missionary was to pay two pounds for wages during the the time they were out—say eight or ten days—and also the travelling expenses. Dr. Fletcher was accompanied by Mr. Powell to Westerbury, on Friday, where arrangements were made to hold a meeting on the coming Monday. On Saturday they went to Belston, where they found people quite satisfied that we have had enough of reform—(Hear)—though they expressed much dissatisfaction at the conduct of of the present Ministers. As they had a large space of country to go over, they did not waste their time at this place, but made inquiries as to the possibility of getting up a meeting. After passing through Dar listen, where two individuals promised to get up a meet ing, they returned to Birmingham, for the purpose of spending there the Sunday. On Monday they attended, at Westerbury, a meeting , which was very numerous, and which was imbued with the proper spirit of reform. —(Hear, hear.) They went to Darlisten, according to appointment, having first made arrangements to hold a meeting at Walsall ; and in Westerbury they found that the persons who had undertaken to get up the meeting had disappointed them. One of them, they found, was elected Churchwarden, which accounted for his retiring from the ranks of Radicalism.—(Hear, hear.) As it was too late in the day to hold an open air meeting, and as they could not obtain a room for their purpose, they were forced to take an opportunity which offered them of accepting the accom modation of the Whig and Radical club of the place, in order to make known the objects of the Charter. They argued with some of the Whigs at this Club, who, lie must say, treated them very cour teously, on the inefficiency of a repeal of the Corn-laws to give the people the real means of happiness. He need not say how easy they found it to prove the fallacy of the Whig nostrum ; but he would say that the greater part of the meeting testified their willingness to enter into an Association to carry out the five great principles of the Charter.—( Hear, and cheers.) They had good meetings at Walsall on Wednesday, at West Bromwich on Thursday, at Bloxwich on Friday ; and on Saturday they failed in getting up a meeting at Greatbrid ge , b ut got numerous s i gna t u res to the Na tional Petition. On the whole, they found among the people of the district a great lack of political spirit and information. The great bulk of the people are in a most prosperous state, from the great demand for iron by the rail-roads, that neighbourhood being totally employed in the smelting.—( Hear.) They appeared to themselves, ignorant as they were of political move ments, to be reaping all the fruits promised by the Reform Act.—(Hear, hear.) The Birmingham Dele gates app-ared to him, Dr. Fletcher, both as mission aries and influential inhabitants of the districts to have totally and grossly neglected the people of Birmingham itself—he had not seen much of it, but he feared they were much divided among themselves—but he must say, there was among the Radicals a feeling of universal approbation of the proceedings of the Convention. Dr. Fletcher then proceeded to state, that he had proposed attending the meetings which were to be held yesterday in Birmingham for electing the new Delegates, but that, having seen from the newspapers, that some remarks which were other than complimentary, had been used with reference to this mission as applying to himself and his brother missionary, be must say these remarks were uncalled for, and that with regard to the missionaries formerly sent out a different line of conduct had been acted on.—( Hear, hear.) Before lie proceeded further, he begged that the Secretary should read the resolution which sent them down to Bir mingham; Read accordingly. Mr. DEEGAN wanted to have the subsequent reso lutions rrad also, which was done. For one and a half hour from this the Convention was a scene of confusion and altercation, between some ten or twelve members, arising from the pro ceedings of which Dr. Fletcher had spoken, and which occurred on last Thursday, as will be seen on refer ring to the reports of that day's assembly. During this time the Chairman had much difficulty in preserving even the semblance of order, and at length was only successful in doing so by some of the most well-ordered among the members declaring that they would retire. At length, after explanation on explanation had been given, on the motion of Mr. Whittle, seconded by Mr. Deegan, the ma r k e d t h anks of the meeting were given to Dr. Fletcher and 'Mr. Carpenter, for their conduct on the Birmingham Mission. GENERAL PETITION. Upon the motion of Mr. PITKEITHLEY, seconded by Mr. FEARGUS O'CONNOR, a Committee was appointed to take measures for the purpose of obtaining an in crease to the signature s to the National Petition, and that all such signatures should be forwarded to London qn or before the 2d of May. RETIREMENT OF A PHYSICAL FORCE DELEGATE. tBie On Mr. R YDER , the Delegat b y e for orthe es ballot to go on the g of Yorkshire, being appointed London Agitation C o mmittee , he declined doing so, saying that in future h e wou ld no t consider himself Member of the Convention, having lost all confidence in the body. After which the usual vote of thanks was given to the Chairman, and the meeting dissolved. WIGAN ELECTION COMMITTEE. The Committee met yesteiday morning at eleven o'clock. Mr. CuiLDEns in the Chair. At four o'clock only one vote on the poll of the sitting Member was decided. The Committee was of opinion that the vote was a good one, leaving the sitting Member still in a majority of one. The investigation is likely to be a very protracted one. The Earl of Yarboroug h has arrived at Appul dercombe, his scat in the, Isle of Wight, from town. The Nuble ,Earl purposes a cruise in his sp l endid yacht the latter end of the ensuing month. The Earl of Wilton has left town for Eglintoun Castle, Ayrshire, on a visit to the Earl ofglintoun. Lord Macdonald was to have arrived at the above seat on Monday last. A numerous party assemble at tho castle during this week. parties, at Bath burton's Ash Lord and Lady House, will be discontin ued during the present season, i n consequence of the domestic bereavements they have re cently sustained—name l y , the death s of the lion. Mrs. Mildmay and the Hon. Arthur Bari ng, both under 30 years of age. A MERICAN ABOLITIONISM.-- Success will in volve the stability, not to say the existence of the Ame rican Government. For both these powers cannot occupy the same field as victors. The American Abolitionists must trample on the Constitution, and wade through the carnage of a civil war, before they can triumph. If it were a mere conflict of opinion, that were a different thing ; but it is a body politic against a body politic —a faction, under the o.g tnization of a state machinery, against the state. All ;race, therefore, is necessarily suspended, till the strife shall be brought to a close, by the suppression of one of the hostile parties. Henceforth, nothing can be done for the amelioration of the condition of the slaves till this warfare is ended. The south has been compelled, in self-de fence, to rivet the chains of slavery afresh, and to hold on to their political rights with a stronger hand. And the day can hardly be remote, when they might be obliged to avail themselves of their claim on the general government for protection and redress. The cause of these disturbances of the public peace must be inquired into, and the charac ter of the agency scrutinized. And when it shall be found that it is an unconstitutional, illegal organization —as doubtless it is—that it is an organized sedition in the Re public—then a collision between it and the Government cannot be long delayed.—A Voice from America to Eng land. THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, APRIL 24, 1839 IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIL 23. Lord RADNOR presented two petitions in favour of a penny postage. Lord CAMPERDOWN presented a petition from Dunfermline to the same effect. Lord BANDON presented a petition from the phy sicians, surgeons, and medical practitioners of Band9n, complaining of inadequate remuneration for their at tendance at Coroner's Inquests. Earl GREY presented a petition from the parish of St. Margaret's, London, praying for the adoption of a Penny Postage. Lord LYNDHURST presented a petition from a town in the county of Essex to the same effect. Lord VERU LAM presented a petition in favour of Church Protection. Lord MINTO presented a petition in favour of a Penny Postage. Lord BROUGH AM presented petitions from Fer managh, Glasgow, Kelsey, Wolverhampton, Bilston, a town in the county of Suffolk, and numerous printing offices in London, praying for the adoption of a Penny Postage. The Bishop of NORWICH presented a great many petitions, but in so low a voice as to render it quite im practicable to hear in the gallery, either from whence they came, or on what subjects they were. The Marquis of DO WNSHIRE presented a petition from Newbury against any further grants to the College of Maynooth. Also a petition from the same place expressing the fears of the Petitioners, that the Votes of the Roman Catholics in Parliament were actuated by a feeling against the Established Church. Earl STANHOPE presented a petition from a churchwarden in the county of Somerset against the New Poor-law Amendment Act. The Marquis of BUTE presented a petition from the Synod of Glasgow and Ayr, praying for a repeal of the Catholic Emancipation Act ; also two petitions from places in Ross-shire in favour of Church Extension in Scotland ; also a petition from Wales, praying pro vision might be made for the support of the Established Church in the British Colonies. IRELAND. The Marquis of WESTMEATH had on the 19th February moved for certain papers connected with proceedings in the county of Westmeath, and the Noble Marquis opposite had promised to grant certain of them. On this understanding he had remained patiently up to the present time, and con sidering the improper use that had been made of his name, he thought the Noble Marquis could not com plain if he gave notice that he should, on Monday next, move for the production of those papers, unless some ex planation were given. The Marquis of NORMA NBY had written to Dub lin for the papers at the time, and ten days ago he had again written to remind the authorities that these papers had not been produced, but the officers of the Castle at Dublin had of late been so occupied that this subject might perhaps have escaped their attention, but he could assure the Noble Marquis that there was no de sire, either on his part or on the part of the officers at the Castle of Dublin, to withhold the required in formation. The Marquis of WESTMEATH said the Noble Marquis might be as facetious as he plesaed, but the manner in which he had referred to his (the Marquis of Westmeath's) name in his official papers, was such as he would not permit, and the Noble Marquis might discover at some future time that it was not so light a matter as he seemed to think it. THE DEANERY OF EXETER. The Bishop of EXETER said, before the House went into Committee, he wished to refer to what had taken place in the House last night. On that occasion the Noble Viscount (Melbourne) was pleased to say that the Chapter of Exeter, so far as he under stood, did not claim a free election, but that their Bishop had recommended them so to do. In relation to any recommendation which he (the Bishop of Exeter) had g iven them he s h ou ld b e a bl e t o exp l a i n it fully t o th e i r Lordships, and he had on that occasion appealed to the Noble Viscount not only in his official capacity but in the higher character of a man of honour and veracity, to state the whole of the correspondence that had taken place on the subject. It was not his inten tion to persevere in the motion which he had given, as he could obtain all he wanted by addressing their Lordships now, and quoting a few of the passages from letters which had passed between the Chapter and the Noble Vis count. He would first reply to that part of the Noble Viscount's speech, in which, in" a tone of taunt, he had said, that the Chapter had not claimed the right which their Bishop had recommended them. Now he (the Bi shop of Exeter)would read a letter which he bad addressed _ ... to the President of the Chapt er f or thepurpOse — of showing their Lordships what his recommendation bad been. The Right Reverend Prelate then read extracts from the letter in which it was stated that if the Chapter were satisfied that the right existed, they were bound to asset t it, but if not he hoped they would not only not resist the claim of the Crown, but afford every due facility for carrying its intentions into effect. The letter also recommended that the Chapter should obtain the opinion of Sir Wm. Follett upon the subject. With that document open to the perusal of the Noble Viscount, and no doubt perused by him—. Lord MELBOURNE—No, no. The Bishop of EXETER—Thep it appeared, that the Noble Viscount LiadVidditiistiPpOlitio n upon no evi dence, but as that was the only eVidence that did exist he had given the Noble Viscount credit for having referred to it. A Noble Viscount, belonging to the s i s t er coun t ry , a Roman Catholic P e er, thou g not a Member of that House, made interest with the Noble Viscount at the head of the Government, to get the appointment for a protege of his own. In reply to that application the Noble Viscount, with all that courtesy and suavity which belonged to him, when writing his deliberate sentiments, stated that the appointment to the Deanery of Exeter was not in the gift of the Crown. That was deliberately written by the Noble Viscount, and he (the Bishop of Exeter) challenged him to say no. Viscount MELBOURNE said most likely he had done so, and no doubt he was under that impression at the time. The Bishop of EXETER said there could be no doubt of the fact ; the clergyman who was the subject of the communication was so delighted at being so honoured, that he went about with the letter in his hand until every person supposed that had the right of appointment to the Deanery of Exeter been in the Crown, he would have been the individual selected. That letter reached him, and by him was commu nicated to the Dean and Chapter. It was singular that his copy of the letter reached the Chapter at the same time as her Majesty's letters patent for the ap pointment of Lord W. Russell. Having such an au thority it was not likely that the Chapter would quietly put up with such a loss of their rights. A meeting of the great Chapter was held, and they determined to obey the law as it at present stood, and, that no legislative interference was at all necessary. All parties were desirous to pay the ut most respect to the recommendation of the Crown, consistently with their own rights. He would not de tain the House any longer, but would sit down without opposing the motion for the Lord Chancellor leaving the chair. Lord MELBOURNE was glad t o find that the Rev. Prelate had given up his intcntiou of moving for documents, but he was rather surprised that he should have entered into the statements which he had made. The statement made by the Reverend Prelate very little varied the statement of the case, which had been made by him (Lord Melbourne). What he (Lord Melbourne) said was that the Chapter of Exeter had riever claimed free election. He did not say that they had not reserved any rights which they might possess. It was admitted that since the year 1.560 they had always elected at the recommendatio n of the Crown, and it had been stated, over and over again, that they did not intend to depart from the -usual mode of election. Ho (Lord M.) also said that the Reverend Prelate had advised them to in sist upon their right. The Reverend Prelate bad said recollect your oath—recollect you arc bound to main tain the rights of the Church —recollect you are bound to support what you possess against any encroachments and if this power of free election be yours, you are bound to persist in it.--(" Hear, hear" from the Bishop of Exeter.) The Rev. Prelate had taunted him with want of patience, but if the Rev. Prelate would himself exercise a little, it would tend to the order and decorum of the debate. When the Chapter had been accustomed to receive at the recommendation of the Crown, and the Rev. Prelate advised them to recollect their oaths, that they were bound to maintain their rights, &c., it was to a cer t a i n insist degree advising them to upon their right of free election.. From all he had known from his com munications with the Chapter of Exeter, he believed they were very anxious to carry into effect the recom mendations of the Crown, and to act in union with its wishes ; and if their Lordships passed this Bill, he had no doubt the matter would be satisfactorily settled, and accommodated to the satisfaction of all parties. The statement lie had made was very short, and he did not think it had been much varied by any thing the Right Rev. Prelate had said. The House then resolved itself into a Committee upon the Bill. The Duke of WELLINGTON was of opi nion that, by this Bill, the Crown, on the one hand, and the Chapter on the other, would be placed in ex actly the same situation in which they were previous to the passing of the Act of the 6th and 7th William IV. In his view of the case the present Bill went further than that, and considerably further than the amended clause sent up by the House of Commons, which was attached to the other Bill. lie thought the House should make this Bill, as nearly as possible, in conformity with that clause. The Bishop of EXETER moved an amendment, which was in effect to make the Bill precisely the same as thu clause sent up by the House of Commons, and which he had no doubt would meet with the universal approbation of their Lordships. Lord BROUGHAM said there was a much shorter He would just call the attention of the House to cer tain Inclosure Bills, which were now passing throu g h the House, and the breviates of which were in the hands of Members, to show that in some cases the quantities of land to be inclosed were stated ; the reserves were also stated as well as the quantities allotted to the Lord of the Manor, and he wished the disinterested protec tion had been extended to the rights of the poor. In one of these Bills the clergyman had claimed a right of tithe to geese, and he had had al lotted to him as compensation ground sufficient to produce 4/. a year. Ile had no objection, that every clergyman should have accommodation for all the g eese in his parish—(A laugh)—but the rights of the poor should not be neglected. In one Inclosure Bill now before the House, the quantity of land to be enclosed was stated at 17,000 acres, five acres were allotted to the poor and one-fourteenth was allowed to the lord of the manor ; in another no quantity was: mentioned, nor was any allotment made, but one-fourteenth was set apart for the lord of the manor, and provision was made that this should be inclosed at the expense of the general fund. In the Milton Inclosure 15,000 acres were to be inclosed, and only three acres were set apart for the poor, not more, while the lord of the manor was allotted one-sixteenth ; in the Brand Green Inclosure 600 acres were to be inclosed without any allotment whatever to the industrious classes. In the Congleton inclosure no quantity whatever was stated, but the amount to be appropriated to the industrious classes was not to exceed six acres. No relative proportions were observed in these allotments. In one case in which 10,000 acres were to be inclosed, the allotment to the poor was to be not more then 20 acres, nor less then 10. The dangerous power was given to the Com uiissioners for knocking down any cottages which had been built upon encroachments within a specified period ; and in these days of Boards, he wondered that there was no i,oor man's Commissioner appointed to protect the rights of the working classes many of these cottages, which had been erected within the last twenty flee years, had been built by industrious persons during their leisure time—before and after their work for the day—and it was hard that they should be exposed to the caprice of the lord of the manor, who might wish the ground to be laid bare and throw n into his park. It was most important for this House to throw its legisla tive protection over the rights of the poor, as the cir cumstances of the time did not justify them in showing a feeling of indifference for the lower classes. Wishing therefore to carry out the benevolent intentions of the Hon. Member for Wigan, who had first drawn the attention of the House to this subject, he would now bring forward the motion of which he had given notice, Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET would call the attention of the House to what appeared to him to be more than a formal objection. He agreed with bins in the importance of considering the subject.—(Hear.) But when the Hon. Gentleman asked the House to lay Mr. COLLIER supported tLo motion. Mr. C. WOOD said he should not oppose the motion. He must, however, say that the order for discontinuing Mr. Harris's invention, had been given, not by the present Board of Admiralty, but by a former and easier mode of going to work than that proposed by the Right Rev. Prelate. There could be but one object, and that was not to interfere with invested rights, nor with a question which might be considered sub judice, and which might probably yet have to be considered by a Court of Law. He could sea no ob jection to any part of this Bill, except that some doubt might arise upon the words " nominated by the Crown," and if those tour words were left out, then the clause would be left precisely as had been suggested by the Noble Duke.--(" Hear, hear," from Lord Lyndhurst.) Lord EL LENBOROLTG H said that the preamble of the Bill related to the Church of Exeter, but then the other words of the clause had a reference to all Cathedral Churches. The Bishop if EXETER was sorry to be obliged to differ from the Noble and Learned Lord who bad just spoken, but he thought there were other words in the clause which would carry it further. Lord LYNDHURST was of opinion that if the four words were loft out as sugested by his Noble and Learned Friend apposite, the Right Rev. Prelate's object wolf!: be accomplished. The Bishop of EXETER thought not. Lord MELBOURNE said that as the Right Rev. Prelate seemed to be so very fond of the clause that had been sent up by the House of Commons, it was a great pity that he had not been satisfied with it when it was offered to him, as that would have saved a great deal of time.—(Hear, hear.) The Duke of WELLINGTON was only anxious that the Bill should be made conformable to the clause sent up, and as the Noble and Learned Lords around him were of opinion that that object would be at tained by striking out those four words, he would re commend the Right Rev. Prelate to accept of that course. The Bishop of EXETER was quite ready to adopt the Noble Duke's recommendation. The amendment was then withdrawn. The question was then put, that the words " nomi nated by the Crown" do stand part of the Bill, which was negatived. The Bill then passed through the Committee, the House resumed, and the report was ordered to be brought up on Thursday. CHURCH DISCIPLINE BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR gave notice, that on Monday next, he should move the second reading of the Church Discipline Bill. The Bishop of EXETER said, that as this was a Bill which affected the Clergy of the Church of Eng land more than any Bill that had been introduced into Parliament for a long series of years, it would be ab solutely necessary that the Clergy should have a full opportunity of knowing what the Bill was, in order that they might form their opinion about it. He hoped, therefore, the Noble and Learned Lord would not ap point so early a day as Monday next for the second reading. The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had ap pointed that day, with the approbation of the Arch bishop of Canterbury, and he believed that that day would be found to be generally convenient. The Bishop of EXETER then said, that as that was so, he should not oppose the second reading of the Bill on Monday, providing it was understood that Noble Lords should be at liberty to take objections to the Bill upon its going into Committee, and that the Com mittee should not be appointed in less than a week after the second reading. The LORD CHANCELLOR had no objection to that. The Bills on the table wer e f orwar d e d a stage, and the House adjourned to Thursday. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Arial, 23. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. Mr. REDDINGTON presented a petition from Dundalk, against the Liverpool, London, and Brazil SteamiPacket Company Bill. MANCHESTER AND BIRMINGHAM RAILWAY. Sir P. EGERTON moved the second reading of the Manchester and Birmingham Railway Bill. The Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be com mitted. On the motion of Colonel RUSHBROOKE, the Lords' amendments to the Molton Inclosure Bill were agreed to. On the motion of Sir RONALD FERGUSON, the Nottingham Common Fields Inclosure Bill was read a second time. PRESTON AND WYRE RAILWAY. Sir HESKETH FLEETWOOD moved the re appointment of the Committee on the Preston and Wyre Railway Bill.—Agreed to. Sir P. EGERTON presented a petition against the Manchester and Birmingham Extension Railway Bill. Mr. FINCH presented a petition from an indivi dual, against the Birmingham Canal Bill. INCLOSURE BILLS. Mr. HARVEY then rose to make the motion of which he had given notice, that the second special Standing Order to be observed on Inclosure Bills be rescinded. His object in making that motion was to introduce another Standing Order in its place, inasmuch as the present one had been found inadequate for the laudable purposes for which it bad be agreed to. Upon looking through the various Inclo sure Bills, he could not but perceive the great laxity that was shown in respect to preserving for the lower classes proper means of recreation. That was not to be wondered at, when it was recollected that the whole of the Committee were composed of gentlemen more or less interested in the matter before them. The object of the resolution he intended to propose was, that in all Bill s f or i nc l os i ng commons or waste lands, provision be made for leaving an open space in the most appropriate situation, sufficient for the purposes of the exercise and recreation of the neighbouring population ; that the quantity of ground iaclosed should be in all cases taken, and that the quantity reserved for the indus trious classes should have reference to the quantity en closed ; that when it was selected the selection should be made in die most convenient locality, and the ground so set apart should be fenced in, and the expense paid either by funds arising from the sale of the waste lands, or at the expense of the parish in which the lands are situated ; that the property should be vested in the overseers of the poor, and that provision should be made for the permanent maintenance of the fences out of the poor -rates ; lie would now submit the resolution to the House : .‘ That in all Bills for inclosing Commons or Waste Lands, provision be made for leaving an open space in the most appropriate situation, sufficient for purposes of exercise and recreation of the neighbouring popula tion ; and that the Committee on the Bill have before them the number of acres proposed to be enclosed, as also of the population in the parishes or places in which the land to be inclosed is situate ; and also to see that provision is made for the efficient fencing of the allotment, for the investment of the same in the Over seers of the parish in which such open space is reserved, and for the efficient making and permanent main tenance of the fences by such parish, to be paid out of the Poor-rate thereof; and that -in any case where the information hereby required is not given, and the required provisions are not made in the Bill, the Com mittee on the same be directed specially to report to the House the reasons for not complying with such Standing Order." RPM EVENING EDITION. down, by a Standing Order, the necessity of always levying a tax on a particular fun d, he could not li-i!p thinking there was great difficulty in acceding to the resolution of the Hon. Gentleman ; because the provi sions of the New Poor-law Act expressly limited the . power of levying on the poor.rates any expense except that which related to the at'ininistration of the Poor. laws. He thought it was a bad principle to lay down, in any clause of a Private Bill, the necessity of taking money out of the public purse, Ile wished distinctly to be understood as not objecting to the principle of the resolution, because he thought it was one that ought rather to be supported than opposed.—(Hear, hear.) Perhaps the Speaker would be good enough to state whether it would not be more desirable that the principle should be laid down in a more regular and constitutional form. The SPEAKER conceived that one of his principal duties was to watch the proceedings of the House, so that on the first appearance of any new precedent, the . consequence and effect of which could not be dearly anticipated, to draw the attention of the House to it. This did seem to him in sonic respects to be a new pre- ceeding. This was a Standing Order describing that on all Bills of a certain clari-3 a certain tax should be imposed. That did appear to him to be a resolution which the House would act unwisely in carrying, without careful consideration.—(Hear.) The object Which the Hon. Gent. had in view might be a very proper one, and perhaps he would consider whether his end might not be attained by saying, " provision shall be made for maintaining the same."—( Hear.) Mr. PEASE was very glad to find this subjcet had obtained the attention of the House, because he re gretted to find that in some instances only two acres had been reserved. But it was not right for the Hon. Member to say that no man in that Heuso felt any in.; terest in the comforts of the poor.—(Hear.) He pro tested against the doctrine that they sat there as Repre sentatives of the people and did not feel a sincere in. terest in every thing brought before the House as re spected every class.—(Hear.) Mr. HARVEY said it was very remote from his in tention to monopolize the title of "the pcior man's friend," but he wished it was in his power to be so as substantially in other respects as the Hon. Member for Durham was.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He was well pleased to hear the statement of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Gr nville Somerset), and would most heartily concur in any suggestion that would carry out this resolution. After what had fallen from the Speaker he would, with the permission of the House, withdraw the words that it should be paid out of the • poors'-rate, merely providing that the land should in the first instance be fenced, and that provision should be made in each Bill as to how the fence should, in all future times, be kept up.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. AG LI ON BY said it was not desirable that the matter should be left entirely vague, but thought that some definite provision should be made for maintainieg the fence. Mr. SLANEY said it appeared to him that the matter was one of very easy solution. The parties came to that House and asked that their land might be much increased in value. Surely, then, they had a right to say that if the land was increased from Si. to 500/. an acre, the parties getting such an in• creased value should be obliged to fence in a portion for the benefit of the inhabitants of the parish. The resolution was then agreed to. On the motion of Mr. SANFORD, the Report of the Great Western Railway Bill was ordered to be further considered on Tuesday next. _ _ Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented petitions from several trades in Birmingham and its neighbourhood, against the Designs Copyright Bill. PENNY POSTAGE. An HoN. MEMBER having presented a petition in favour of Mr. Rowland Hill's plan for a Penny Postage, The SPEAKER inquired if there were any snare, petitions on the same subject ? Frem thirty to forty Members immediately rose, with petitions in their hands, and advanced to the table with them, amidst considerable laughter. . _ Col. PERCEVAL presented a petition from the county of Sligo, against the Government plan for es tablibhing Railroads in Ireland, as the most populous places, where the greatest traffic was carried on, were not included. Mr. 0. GORE presented a petition from tam Ma gistrates of the county of Salop, against the County Courts Bill. The SPEAKER stated that he should, to-morrow, sit at three o'clock to afford Hon. Members opportunity of presenting public petitions. MPROVEMENT FOR DEBT ACT AMEND MENT BILL. Mr. SHEPHERD gave notice of a motion in Com mittee on this Bill, to provide (as we understood) that the clause, making a debtor's property at any future period liable to be seized by his creditors, should be restricted to within three years after his dis charge. CANADA. In answer to Mr. GOULBU RN, Lord MORPETII said he believed Lord John Russell intended to bring en the subject of Canada on Monday. PRESERVATION OF SHIPS FROM LIGHTNING. Lord ELIOT rose to move the appointment Of a Committee to examine into the merits of the petition of Mr. S. Harris, F.R.S., relating to his invention for the pro tectionbd rinzj ioitithfoiosfr consider:s,cu,t a l i i ,r p jie s he f tn io alo ti uir t tei l c i l g sffel l li l uo t k, nolvinoipi knowledge e T hege ne cessa ryN le Lord to said under standl e tit ld n de o ern t d lityaitet establishuh el n e c e le t r.itnkl three r et e o propositions : that ships ductors, or provided only with such as yi were nosy in c u o s n e, were in great danger of injury from o itni t ug : that the invention of Mr. Harris was cifect i i'v pur pose ; and that having been tried, and dr found effective it had nevertheless been dise°aru(nledl.so so There ware 170 cases of damage with:n the last fifteen years, occasioned by vessels having been struck by n lightning. These numbers were obtained by Mr. Snow Harris, who had been permitted by the Hydro grapher of the Admiralty to• inspect the Log-books of, the ships, and they formed but a small proportion °in. the entire number. Of these 170 cases, i n one hundred instances, the vessels were s e t on fire, and of the crews 62 were killed, and 111 wounded. In the case of the Repulse 7 men were killed ; in the case of the Sappho 73 ware wounded, and 40 severely, and in the case of Le Juste, several men were killed. No danger was so appalling to sailors as that of lightning ; and within the last two years he beliveved that not less than seven of her Majesty's ships had been struck by lightning. Captain Fanshaw commanding the Rodney, in which two men were killed by lightning, stated that he had never passed through the Levant, in which dangerous thunder-storms were frequently encountered, without wishing for Mr. Harris's conductors, and added that the Caledonia, the Asia, and other ships, which had been for a considerable period on the station, and which were provided with these conductors, bad never received any damage. The second position which he would lay down was that the invention of Mr. Snow Harriss would be effectual fcr securing vess e l s from lightning. Ile was a gentleman well known fur his scientific attainments, and no man had of late years made more interesting discover ies in that branch of natural philosophy. The house was probably aware that the usual conductors were metal chains, which were thrown across the side of the ship in order to conduct the electric fluid into the sea. Those conductors were uemally packed in boxes, and kept in the bold, and the conse quence was that upon an emergency they were hardly ever forthcoming, without considerable delay. The experiments of Mr. Harris had been submitted to the Inspector of the Royal Society, who had appointed a Committee to investigate the mat ter, and the result of these deliberations was a full approval of them. In addition to the testimony to the improvements of Mr. Harris, be might also add that of Sir David Brewster. The Noble Lord read a number of letters, approving of Mr. Harris's plan, from officers commanding ships, in which his conductors were used. It might be objected that the expense would be great. That objection, however, was not tenable, as he had a letter from a most respected and distinguished officer, which stated that the expense of fitting out a first-rate line of battle ship would snoottiex ceed 300/.—the value of the ship was 1 20,000/., the expense of conductors was not a ve r y blip' rate of in surance.an d T it he w e a x s p p e r r o in v i e e s t o had the strength d bee s nm en a g d t e h of the inthe dock yards,r spars was rather increased than diminished b y the p rocess . He was aware that there was a great disinclination on the part of the House to become as it were a Court of Appeal from the decisions of variou s Departments, but ha thought this was a subject of th e last importance, whether considered in a financial poi n t of view or as affecting the lives of our seamen.— (Hear, hear.) This did appear to him to be a question which required consideration. As he had been informed by the Ilon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. C. Wood) that the motion would not be opposed, it was unnecessary for him to say anything further, except that he thanked the house for the indulgence it had shown (Cheers.) The Noble Lord then m oved that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the stat ements contained in the petition of William Snow Harris, Eq., F.R.S., relating to the protectio n of shi p s f rom the effects of lightning. Sir E. CODRINGTON seconded the motion. In addition to the instances me ntioned b y the N oble Lord, he would refer to two ve ssels which had been lost in South America, on wh ich ccest the effe ct of th e lightning was most treme ndous. So many vessels h a d been lost from this cause, that if the cost of the expo riment was likely to be ten times the sum which it would be, it would be well worth the trial, for where conductors had been applied, no vessel had ever been destroyed by lightning. He could see no objection to the plan what ever. _ _ rde r r d so fro° 0 -,: I ..~.,~,