The Sun. — London, England, 1844-02-15 00:00:00

ettrti lattion SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. FROM THE EVENING PAPERS OF THIS DAY. GLOBE.—When we said that people would not fight in these days about points of faith, we did not mean to say that they would not squabble about the appropria tion of Church revenues. We should be guided by one principle, and by one alone, on that subject, in a country like Ireland. We need not say, perhaps, that ours is not the principle of Sir J. Graham—that so-and-so was esta blished at the Reformation, and ratified by the Act of Union. Other things were established soon after the Re formation, which have been altered since. The wise King Jamie, who planted Presbyterians in Ulster, restored Episcopacy in Scotland. England has not maintained that Episcopacy—or else that too might have been "ratified" in the Act of Union with that country. Suppose it had, and that discontent at our hierarchy had continued undiminished. Would the date of its establishment have been :any good argument in its favour ? Would it not rather have been an argu ment against it, as something no time could naturalise ? Our principle, then, as to Irish Church mat ters, is not that of Sir James Graham ; or that still more naively stated the other day by the Herat!. The Herald said that " Peace between the two contending (ecclesiastical) parties (in Ireland) is morally impos sible. Away, then, with all false pretences and delu sive hopes of this kind ! Let the question be - reduced to its simplest and only intelligible form—that the mere majority of the people of any country, ne matter how ignorant or how superstitious, ought to prescribe what the faith of that country shall be ; and that to maintain a particular form of religion, merely because it is true and divine, is an act of bigotry, and an exhibition of religious intolerance." We are quite of the Herald's opinion that peace between the two Church parties in Ireland is impossible ; so long as either have material objects to defend, or obtain, which they think worth straggling for. But the He rald's idea that the faith of a people is not to be at all consulted in prescribing the faith of a country, that people who think differently are to decide what is true and divine instead, is precisely the assumption which (if nothing else) would deter us from turning Roman Catholics. That the Roman Church makes that as sumption is sufficient to keep us out of it—but in Pro testants we look upon it as quite preposterous and suicidal. "What, then, is the principle on which we should proceed in the Irish Church question? It ap pears to us a very simple one—that of cutting down the real matter of contention. Sir James Graham con tends for continued preference of the Protestant Church. To this we say that a Protestant Church is very well among a Protestant people, It is even very well among a Catholic people—provided it is not preferred. We would not unteach Roman Catholics the lesson that they cannot expel Protestantism from their country. We would not knuckle under to their ascendancy. We should think it worse than the present—worse in all respects except one—that it would at least express the popular opinion, and therefore would not remind the people of conquest and degradation. We do net wish to attach to this sentiment more weight than really belongs to it. We do not believe, and bave seen no proof, that the Protestant clergy are particularly un popular, since the conversion of' tithe has removed them from collision with their parishioners. But they are not the clergy of the bulk of the population ; and there fore the avowal of political preference for them is the avowal of preference for an institution professedly in tended for the bulk of the population, and rational pre ference for which can only be founded on its fulfilling that intention. Substitute N for R, and instead of ra tional preference you have national preference. But what has our national preference to do with the Church of the Irish people ? What has the choice of a Church for another people to do with political union with that people ? Sir James Graham says everything. We say nothing ; and worse than nothing. It is a topic of dis union. That churches will not be fought against in these days we indeed believe ; but will they be fought for ? Tha Herald affirms they will ; and that the people of England are quite ready, if necessary, to do battle in the cause of the Irish Establishment. But mark the much less enthusiastic tone of Lord Eliot:—" There were agi tators in Ireland who would not be satisfied with any measure short of the actual subversion of the Church, and he did not believe that that House, or any Parlia ment that might be summoned in this country, would consent to a total subversion of the Protestant Church." Nothing short, then, of the total subversion of the Pro testant Church appears to Lord Bliot likely much to stag ger the Parliament or the public. Now that is just our opin ion too. And the sort of proposition we should found on it would be the division of Irish Church revenues among the three principal communions, Romish, Anglican, and Presbyterian—and the equal division—as likely 1; be attended with least dispute and difficulty. Lord John Russell indicated the policy of some such set tlement ; but it is not upon his, or any other party stathority, that we throw out the above sugges tion. That suggestion is founded on the view which seems to have prompted former measures—so far as they went—the view, namely, of diminishing the odium of the endowed and ascendant Church, by diminishing its ascendancy, and paring down its endowments. We and the exclusive endowment altogether ; and when there Is no bone of contention between sects, big enough to be worth wor e• - ryin one another for, we shall expect them—not, in deed,' to cease quarrelling, but to cease disturbing the state with their quarrels. STANDARD.—The dabs re the state of Ireland IfftS resumed last night in the House of Commons, and again adjourned. The commencement of the discussion was unusually heavy, but it improved regularly in in terest with the last three speeches—Mr. Young's, Sir George Grey's, and, above all, Lord Eliot's, which was really excellent. But, after all, what remains to be said, upon the state of Ireland, that has not been said a thousand times ? or what practical remedy for Irish evils can be proposed that is not al ready in active operation, or the necessary preparations for which are not earnestly pressed forward by the Go vernment ? The Opposition speakers are, therefore, Limited to vague common-places, or to querulous and • very unjust accusations; but they can propose no thing definite, and they can prove nothing wrong. Their speeches, therefore, necessarily amount to nothing, And to be obliged to read, or listen to, hours of spoken ';thing, is very wearisome. The Conservatives have a great advantage in this respect, for though such "special nothing " is dull in itself, very pleasant commentaries in verse or prose may be made upon it, as one of " The poets of Charles's days, The mob of gentlemen who wrote with ease," shlwn, and we doubt whether the verses of the p,et in question upon " the elder brother even to shade," are better in their way than the speeches of Sir James Graham and Lord Eliot, in reply to Lord John Russell And Company. Something must be done for Ire 3luttl, say the Whigs and the ultra-wise Conservatives. Softly, gentlemen, we say. Suppose one of your selves thrown into a fever by bodily or mental exer tion ; what do you think is the first thing that a skilful physician would order in your case ? Would he physic you while still rolling in a rumbling diligence over the paved road of the Continent, or leave the pen in your hand, and the midnight lamp before you, while applying cupping-glasses and blisters ? No ; you are well aware that the first thing he would order is rest—rest which would probably work a cure by itself—rest, without which all other means of relief would be undoubtedly in effectual. Before you prescribe your nostrums for Ireland, then, would it not be just as well to try what may be the effect of that rest wfii.ch the Government has won for her, more par ickularly as no two of you are agreed upon the proper nostrum ? How that rest has been won will be seen in an article which we have copied from the Morning Herald of this day ; the article is long, but we entreat that it may be carefully read, not merely as a complete vindication of the Attorney-General for Ireland, and of the Government which has the honour of having selected and supported such an officer, but as a vindi cation of the British Constitution itself. Peace, has at length been won for Ireland. The Repeal Association is already melting away. Mr. O'Connell absents himself upon one false pretence ; for what business has he here, after having sworn that he would not set his foot in the Saxon Parliament ? The newspaper pro prietors withdraw on another false pretence, for it is not true that their newspapers were made evidence against the conspiracy because they were implicated; ;heir newspapers were made evidence against the con viracy, because the conspirators in a corporate cha racter circulated these newspapers at their own charge, and hi that way these newspapers would be evi dence, though the name of a single person connected with them did not appear upon the books of the conspi racy. Thus, the monster nuisance has been abated, and still we are told that nothing has been done ; and we are stunned with projects, the only possible effect of ?urging which, besides disturbing the present peace, imust be to call into existence another like monster miganee. The Duke of WELLINGTON gave notice of the inten tion of the Government to introduce a Bill, in the course of the present session, on the subject of Turnpike Trusts. All the Reports on the subject not having been received, the Bill could not be introduced immediately. STATE OF IRELAND.—ADJOURNED DEBATE. On the motion for resuming the adjourned debate, Earl FORTESCUE rose, and said that he understood a statement had been made in another place which affected him personally, and also the character of the Go. GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY vernment, at whose head he was in Ireland. A person high in office had stated that, within three COMPANY. months before the late Government went out of office, seven The half -yearly general meeting of the Proprietors of this stipendiary magistrates had been appointed in addition to the Company was held at the Paddington Station this day, at one existing establishment of stipendiary magistrates in Ireland. o'clock, Mr. C. Russell, M.P., in the chair. The meeting, as Before he proceeded further he begged to inform their Lord stated in the notice, was made special, &c., for the purpose of ships that he alone was responsible for those appointments. .considering and authorising the Directors to make application The Government with which he had been connected had no -to Parliament, in the present session, to alter and enlarge thing to do with them. On reference to the official documents, the powers of any Act or Acts relating to this Company, or to he found it was perfectly correct that seven new appointments -the Cheltenham and Great Western Union Railway Company, were made between the 15th of June and the 28th of August, or to the Oxford Railway C ompany, as well as the propriety of 1841. It was not, however, true that these appointments joining or becoming parties with any other person or persons in were made in addition to the existing number of stipendiary applying to Parliament for a Bill for making a railway from the magistrates. During the time he had mentioned three Great Western Railway at Pangbourne to the town of New- vacancies occurred, and those vacancies were filled up. That - bury, or of agreeing with any person or persons who shall apply left four out of the seven. Of those four, one was appointed to Parliament for such Bill, as to the expenses of such a appr - in the city of Armagh, at the earnest request of Lord G os f or d , 'tion, or of the construction of such rail way, or for takin g in consequence of a dreadful murder that was committed in the lease or use of such railway when made, upon such terms and neighbourhood. Another was sent to Tralee, in consequence of conditions as may seem proper. The Ciastemmi said, the Directors would perceive by the d th is e pu fi t sh es e c r o rn n e t i i i n i u .n al t l h y e oc n c e u ig rr h i b n u g u , r w h h n i nd ch . ter H m . einta.hteeduiwn was s riot e s p a pu moz e s d t -accounts that the receipts for the last half year amounted to to a wild coast district in Donegal, in consequence of 377,7971., whilst those for the corresponding half year disturbances having taken p lace between the people and in 1842 amounted only to 359,376/. During that interval the urteanue police. He did not exactly recollect why their line had been extended eight miles and three quarters. the As these were The inerease in the receipts, therefore, was more than propor- ment m ade e vi re as t e e ointed, but he knew that the appoint to the increase of distance.—(Cheers. ) A reduction f utust theto ft e e equally case, h he urgent truste d that circumstances. this wuuld turn to the • had been effected in that portion of the expenedxitpuernediotuvreer bHeeawsuuuf fi ldcinennwt ans wertur statement made in another . place. which the Directors had control. The immediate subject under discussion. for the last half year of 1842 was 129,417/. ; that He could not agree with those who said that this motion of his /or 'the last half year of 1843, 129,4361. This, at Noble Friend was ill timed. No one could doubt the &rat sight would show no reduction of expenditure ; but it importance, and its importanc e , h e conceived was a must be borne in mind, fi rst, that in the latter period they had su ffi cient justification for its f u ll an d immediate cons ideration . ibeen working nine miles more than in the preceding one, and He stated that much of the exciteme n t o f the people aros e . km; secondly, that there was a portion of the expenditure the attempts made to restrain the franchise. But for those I I over which they could exerc i se no con t ro l. The attempts, these great meetings would no t, i n all probab ility , •cluty, rates, and taxes, for the last half-year of 1842, have been held. He cited the large amount of the repeal rent, .amounted to 19,223/., those for the corresponding period in during the last year, compared with former years, as a proof k 1843 to 26,6291., showing an increase in those charges ,of the great discontent of the people. He felt b oun d <of 7,40 W. The expendit ure b e i ng equa l , i t followed ;to render a due meed of praise to Mr. O'Connell for the Quit the decrease in the c h arges o f t h e establish- i manly stan d w hi c h b e ma d e aga i ns t the propagation of the doctrines which were endeavoured to be spread t hrough e out Ireland by the Chartists. During the time when ( the Earl of Fortescue) was Lord-Lieutenant, the amount of the repeal rent was scarcely more than 2001. for e ach week, but during the Administration of the present Government, it had risen to nearly 2,0001., Mr. O'Connell had refused t accept the highest situation which had been offered to him, bu in the instance of his son's appointment he (the Earl of F o rtescue) would say that Mr. O'Connell never made the ht gt application. On the subject of the Irish Clg urch he theught that there could be but one opih h After some further observations, which were quite inaunib! . the Noble Lord concluded, as we understood him,by a iscl u , that the present discussions might tend to the benefit welfare of Ireland. As he sat down, some Noble Lord m j s that the House proceed to the Order of the Day.—(Laught h Lord HADDINGTON said the Noble Lord complao of a statement that had been made elsewhere, of the dismii ed of the stipendiary magistrates in Ireland. It had been sta n e r, that the Government removed ten of them, and it was e order to defeni the Government from that charge that c ad statement was made. The number of stipendiary magistra . s in the early part of 1841 was 59, and between June and 28th of August, that being the day on which the No u Viscount opposite (Lord Melbourne) left office. As sooneq the present Government:came into office, those seven wv removed, reducing the number again to fifty-nine, t 4 being the number for which the House of Commons had g;n a vote. At present there were sixty, being one more stipe ndit magistrate than in 1839, 1840, and up to the 15th June, 18ra He did not think therefore that her Majesty's present Govea meat were liable to the imputations which had been ; tempted to be cast upon them of setting aside stipendiary in gistrates for party purposes. (LEFT SPEAKING') HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER took the chair at Four &Clock. NEW MEMBERS. Mr. SOTUERON, for North Wiltshire, and Mr. MAHER, for Tipperary, took the oaths and their seats. The Hon. Members were introduced by Mr. M. J. O'Connell and Mr. Estcourt. Mr. WATSON presented a petition from a number of soli citors in the metropolis, complaining of the high amount of compensation given to the six clerks' whose offices, in the Court of Chancery, were abolished under the late Act, and praying the House to take the subject into its consideration. THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY _EVENING, FEBRUARY 15, 1844. ment, over which the Directors had control, was as nearly as possible proportionate to the increase in those which were beyond their power, or about 7,5001. When the Directors undertook a revision of the expenditure, last year, they led the Proprietors to think that they would be able to effect a reduction of about 11,0001. But for this increase of public charges, there would, in fact, have been a reduction of about 15,0001. The increase chiefly consisted of parochial rates—an increase, not only enormous in amount, but perfectly unjustifiable in principle.—( Hear, hear.) There was n o reason why railways, of all commercial enterprises in this country, should alone be subjected to assessments upon the profits of their trade.—(Hear, hear.) The grievance was so unjust and intolerable, that they must endeavour to obtain redress from the Legislature. The total amount which they now paid in the form of duties, of parochial rates, and of in come-tax, was about 64,0001. From the accounts there appeared to be 116,820/. applicable to such pur poses as the Shareholders might be pleased to di rect. The Directors recommended a dividend of Three per Cent. for the last half year, which would require 102,6781., and would leave a balance of 14,1421. The Directors con sidered that this balance was not more than suffi cient to enable them to ensure a dividend of Three per Cent. for the next half year, and, therefore, it was that they proposed to retain that sum. He hoped that the income of the current half-year would exhibit a further in crease, but for any material improvement, they must now look to the completion of the branch lines. The Report of Mr. Brunell as to the state of the works on these lines would, he thought, prove highly satisfactory. There could be no doubt that the Bristol line, as far as Exeter, and their own line as far as Oxford, would be opened in the early part of the ensuing year ; and that the line to Cheltenham and Gloucester would be opened in ample time to fulfil the requirement of the law, which limited the period to June, .1845. The project for the exten sion of the line from Exeter to Plymouth was also advancing satisfactorily. At the last meeting the Directors were em powered to raise 150,0001. towards that undertaking. In order to secure the passing of the Bill in the present session, it became necessary that the railway companies interested in its com pletion should contribute a larger amount. The Directors had taken upon themselves the responsibility of raising 475 shares at 501. each, and of course they would dispose of those shares as soon as possible. In Cornwall a very earnest wish had been manifested for the continuation of the line towards Fal mouth. He hoped the period was not remote when the line would be continued as far as Falmouth. The works at Swin don were now completed. There was one subject connected with that great establishment which he was sure would be interesting to the Proprietors ; he referred to the religious instruction of the men and the useful and moral education of the children.—(Cheers.) In deference to the religious feelings of a portion of the Proprietors, the Directors had thought that the best mode of accomplishing this object was that of private subscription. The amount which had been received by subscription for the church was about 4,6001., without taking into account the assistance which they might expect from those bodies, which were in corporated for the purpose of promoting Church building. The amount raised for schools exceeded 6,000/. The Directors still required further aid, however, from the munificence of the Shareholders. Besides the religious instruction of the workmen, and the education of their children, the Directors thought there was no better way of obtaining a sober, industrious, happy, and contented class of workmen than by giving them the means of innocent recreation.—( Hear.) A library had been established by subscription amongs the workmen themselves, and the Directors felt it to be their duty to encourage this de sire in the workmen for their own improvement. The Direc tors wese in treaty for the purchase of a piece of ground for the purposes of cricket and other manly sports.—( Cheers. ) He hoped that those Proprietors who, from conscientious scruples, were unable to contribute to the building of the church, would contribute now to this object, against which no such scruples could be alleged.— ( Hear, hear.) There was one subject which now excited considerable attention among those interested in railways—he meant the inquiry in relation to them which was now pending in the House of Commons. If he abstained from making any remarks upon this subject, his silence proceeded only from a sense of the delicacy of his po sition as a member of the Committee. He believed that the Government were disposed to deal with railway interests in a fair and friendly spirit.—(Cheers.) He should go to the inquiry deeply impressed with the magnitude of the interests, and the vital importance of the principles involved in the investigation—on the one hand, desirous of giving a libe ral and just consideration to the claims of the public, and on he other steadily watching the legitimate interests of railway proprietors.—( Cheers.) Several resolutions would have to be proposed after the Shareholders had resolved them selves into a special meeting for the purpose of considering them. The secretary then read the report. Mr. WISIIAW, in moving the adoption of the Report, com plained of the inefficient accommodation for third class pas sengers, and suggested that a day train should be established for that class of persons. Mr. NicnoLsoN seconded the resolution. With reference to the subject referred to by the Hon. Proprietor who had just spoken, he begged to say that in consequence of the complaints which had been made, he had himself travelled by a third-class carriage on this line, and he found no reason whatever to com plain of any inconvenience.---( Hear, hear.) Mr. Wztua sts, M.P., concurred with the mover of the resolution in the view which he had taken of this subject ; and stated that if the Directors did not make some alteration in the present arrangements, he should himielf make a pro posal upon the subject. Mr. VOUSLEY deprecated any interference with the Direc tors as regarded this matter. The poor were in a better con dition now than under the old coach system ; and if the Share holders interfered the result would probably be that they would, by-and-bye, have to complain of low dividends. Several other Proprietors expressed their opinions on the same subject. The CHAIRMAN, in reply, contrasted the accommodation now afforded for third class passengers with the most expen sive and luxurious mode of travelling formerly known to them, namely, the outside of a stage coach, where they were exposed to all the inclemency of the weath er ; w hil e by far the greater number were either compelled to walk, or jolted along the road, at the rate of two or three miles an hour.—( Hear, hear.) At all events, he hoped the Proprietors would not interfere ...to, after the inquiry before the Committee of the House of Commons had been completed, and the evidence had been laid before the public.—( Hear, hear.) After a short conversation, the motion for the adoQt the report was pat and carried. Mr. WILLz sus. M.P.. moved the following resolution : " flat it is the opinion of this meeting that a , nt of tne receipts and expenditure of this Company should be sent to each Proprietor four days previously to each half-yearly meeting.' Mr. IVlstntw seconded the resolution. After some discussion the resolution was withdrawn. A resolution was then passed declaring a dividend of 3 per cent. upon, the profits of the last half-year. A resolution was then proposed for the purpose of procuring an amicable settlement of the differences of this Company with the Birmingham and Gloucester Companies. • A resolution was also passed for the construction of a branch line between Twyford and Basingstoke. The four retiring Directors were then re-elected. The meeting then resolved itself into a special meeting, for the purpose of considering the propriety of applying to Par liament for a Bill for making a railway from the Great Western Railwaylat Pangbourne to the town of Newbury; and a resolution in accordance with that object, and generally with the other objects stated in the notice paper, was passed, after some discussion. A vote of thanks was then given to the Directors, after which the meeting separated. TATTERSALL'S.-THIS EVENING QUARTER TO SIX O'CLOCK. CHESTER CUP. 14 to 1 agst The Prior 16 to 1 agst Merry Andrew 20 to 1 agst Freedom 25 to 1 agst Pagan 25 to 1 agst What. DERBY. 11 to 2 agst Ugly Buck 7 to I agst Rattan 16 to 1 agst Orlando 17 to 1 agst Leander 20 to 1 agst Cockamaroo 25 to 1 agst T'Auld 'Squire 35 to 1 agst Loadstone Very little doing. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT (THIS EVENING.) H OUSE OF LORDS. Their Lordships met at Five o'Clock. The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from Chi. ehester:against the union of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor. THE CATHOLIC OATH. Lord STOURTON withdrew the motion, of which he had given notice, for bringing under the consideration of their Lordships the construction of the Roman Catholic Oath. LORD DUNDONALD'S INVENTIONS. Lord BROUGHAM postponed the motion, of which he had given notice, respecting the petition presentecl by Lord Dun donald. Lori MINTO took that opportunity of bearing testimony to the value of one of the inventions of the Noble Lord—an improvement in the application of steam machinery to vessels of war. It had been subjected to a trial of four or five years, and the experiment had been highly satisfactory, both as to its operation and durability. POOR-LAW UNIONS. The Bishop of EXETER gave notice that be should to-morrow move for a Select Committee to consider the expe diency of making some provisions for religious worship and spiritual instruction in the poor-law union houses both in England and Wales. TURNPIKE TRUSTS. CORN-LAWS. Lord WORSLEY presented petitions from places in Lin colnshire and Scotland, complaining et the conduct of the Anti-Corn-law League, and praying that the House would not consent to any reduction of the present inadequate protection. METROPOLITAN BUILDINGS. _ The Earl of LINCOLN moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the better construction of buildings in the metropolis. COMMUNICATION WITH AMERICA. Sir VALENTINE BLAKE gate notice of his intention to bring under the consideration of the House a motion for a Select Committee to inquire into the expediency of promoting a more speedy communication between this country and Ame rica, by establishing steam carriages in connection with the grand canal across Ireland, and thence by steamer across the Atlantic. Sir R. PEEL was understood to state that the discussion of the question would be premature on the present occasion. ARMY IN IRELAND. Lord CLEMENTS gave notice that on Tuesday next he should move for a return of the salaries and stations of every officer who had been sent: to Ireland on particular or secret service. Also for a return of the expense of the military and police force in Ireland during the year 1843 ; also, for a return of the expense of erecting barracks and police stations in that country; and for several returns con nected with the registration of arms in Ireland. RAILWAYS. Mr. WALLACE gave notice that, on Thursday the 29th, he should call the attention of the House to the general state of railway communication throughout the United Kingdom. THE CLONTARF MEETING. Colonel RAWDON gave notice that, on Thursday the 29th, he should call the attention of the House to the circumstances attending the issue of the proclamation against the meeting at Clontarf. He also gave notice that he should to-morrow move for certain returns connected with the expense of the army in Ireland. POOR-LAW. Mr. LIDDELL, on behalf of Lord Ashley, postponed the motion of the Noble Lord, which stood for this evening, re lating to the administering of relief to the sick poor. FACTORIES BILL. Sir J. GRAHAM moved the Order of the Day for the Committee on the Factories Bill, for the purpose of postpone ment till to-morrow fortnight. Mr. HINDLEY wished to know whether it was probable any further postponement would take place. He knew that many of the provisions of the Bill of the Right Hon. Baronet had given great satisfaction in the manufacturing districts. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said it was his intention to proceed with the Bill on to-morrow fortnight. The Committee on the Bill was then postponed. EDUCATION. Mr. WYSE moved that an address be presented to her Ma jesty paying that she would be graciously pleased to direct that the Minutes of Council taken upon the subject of education in Great Britain be laid before the House.. 7 -Agreed to. ELECTION COMMITTEES. The names of those Members of the House, who being sixty years •f age are exempted from serving on Election Committes, were called over. Sir R. PEEL moved for exemption from serving upon Election Committees as long as he had the honour of bolding the office of First Lord of the Treasury.—Agreed to. Similar motions were made by Lord Stanley, Sir James Graham, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as long as they had the honour of holding their respective offices. —Agreed to. Mr. GREENE moved for exemption from serving upon Committees as long as ha continued to discharge the duties of Chairman of Committees on opposed private Bills.—Agreed to. The SPEAKER called upon Mr. Hume.—(Laughter.) Mr. HUME—I beg to be excused—(Laughter)—on ac count of age. PUBLIC BUSINESS. Mr. HUME wished to know from the Right Hon. Gentle man, the First Lord of the Treasury, when he would bring for ward the estimates ? Sir R. PEEL said he proposed following the course adopted during the last session. and would waive the right of proceeding with Govewrmet t - ^r-iment nights, during the 'Tr. TTITME ee Supposed the e81,....►tes then vz4ul4 ." • Mr. THE:LA V.' ooponed till Monday th e motion of which he had given notice for a Select Committee to inquire respecting the Duchy of Cornwall. Mr. GIBSON also postponed his motion for a Select Com mittee for an inquiry into the laws relating to gaming. The other motions on the paper were also postponed. The Offences at Sea Bill was read a third time and passed. STATE OF IRELAND—ADJOURNED DEBATE. Mr. ROSS rose to move the Order of the Day for the ad journed debate. He said he was heartily in favour of the propnsition of the Noble Lord (John Russell) for a Select Committee to inquire into the causes of discontent' and dis affection which prevailed in Ireland. He had listened with great attention to what fell from Honourable Gentlemen oppo site ; but he confessed that although he heard some intimation of measures which were not only unobjectionable, but even having some amount of good in them, still he had heard no thing from the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary for the Home Department, of a disposition to remove the complicated maladies of Ireland, or any intimation of an intention to deal out that measure of justice which had been se long and so ear nestly sought.—( Hear, hear.) He thought, therefore, that the interference of this House was more than ever essentially necessary to the welfare of Ireland—indeed, for the safety of the whole empire.—(Hear, hear.) So little did the Right Hon. Gentleman seem to regard the complaints of the Irish people—so little did he attend to their rights, that he was at issue with the great body of the people of that country—with the majority of their representatives, who constituted a formid able minority in that House—( Hear)--with a great mass of the people of England and of Scotland, and with all the world who are spectators, whom his policy to Ireland appeared to be in explicable. It must appear inexplicable and astonishing to any foreigner who read our history, to observe that after a connexion of six centuries, and a nominal incorporation of forty-three years, no real union or consolidation of interests had taken place. It must be astonishing, that with the opinion of statesmen and of sages, in favour of a more con ciliatory course, with the experience of recent events as well as of; past history, the Right Hon. Gentleman was obsti nately bent upon persisting in the unfortunate course, that was calculated to fill the whole civilised world with astonishment. The vast empire of India was governed by an attention to its welfare; and even the late aggressions upon the frontier were accompanied with promises of amelioration and conciliation, but in Ireland, to this moment, no such promise was held out. It was impossible to doubt that a proper exer cise of moral power would pacify Ireland in a month.—( Hear, hear.) The Legislature of this country was absolute, and for the tranquilization of Ireland the will alone was wanting. An experiment was tried a year ago, and was eminently successful. The feelings of his (Mr. Ross's) countrymen were soothed by the impartial, just, and gentle administration of the laws.— ( Hear,' heir.) The gaols were empty —the soldiers' useless. If the Government had continued in that course, and had en larged the boundaries of popular rights, the same tranquility would have continued. It happened during that time that this country became involved in difficulties with one of the colonies ; and, in allusion to that subject, a Noble and Learned Lord in the other House quoted from Mr. Fox a passage, to which he (Mr. Ross) would refer, and which had previously been cited by a Noble Lord in this House ( Lord Jelin Russell). He had no doubt that the Noble Lord conceived the use made of the quotation was more able than just.—( Hear, hear. ) The Hon. Gentleman then read an extract of a speech of Lord Brougham's, and went on to ask where was that parental care exhibited for Ireland, of which the Noble and Learned Lord had spoke—whose complaints were now unheeded—whosehopes disappointed? Were they those of the people of Ireland. And with reepeet to the political leader of that people, Mr. O'Connell, he must say, it was unfair to charge him with want of sincerity in his endeavours to serve his country, The men who were called O'kionnell's police" were appointed in good faith to preserve peace and order at the repeal meetings, and very successful they were in carrying out that object. He repeated, he believed that Mr. O'Connell was perfectly sincere, and it was a very hard thing indeed to proceed against him by criminal prosecution for his exertions. Had he not frequently said, that one drop of blood would be too dear a price for any good he could obtain, and upon what ground, he asked, would Honourable Gentlemen charge Mr. O'Connell with being a hypocrite, and say that his words were smoother than oil, but that his thoughts breathed nothing but violence.—( Here the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork (Mr. O'Connell) entered the House. His first ap pearance at the door was the signal for a loud and enthusiastic burst of applause from all the Members of the Opposition, which as well as those on the Ministerial benches were much crowded. The cheers as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman walked up the floor of the House, were renewed again and again, and as he took his seat in his usual place, Mr. 'Hume and several other Hon. Gentlemen around crowded forward, and shook him warmly by the hand. Mr. Ross, who was addressing the House, was then about to resume his observations, when the applause again burst forth, and was:continued for some seconds, when the excite ment ceased, Mr. ROSS proceeded to ask; was it wise in them to treat the man who had been received in the way in which Mr. O'Connell was received at that moment, as they had treated him.--Loud cheers.) They might put him in a gaol.--( Loud cheering.) How much safer would they be if they did so?—(Cheers.) What security would there be if he declared ?—( Continued cheering, and cries of Oh, oh.") He treated this as a political question. He asked them to pursue the same course in Ireland which they had pursued in Canada.—( Cheers, and Hear, hear. ) Had they welt considered the consequences of alienating the Irish people. The Hon. Gentleman then referred to the Arms Bill, the only consequence of which was that it caused alarm and consternation in Ireland, and all parsons were anxious to procure arms. He knew himself a clergyman of the Established Church, who went about the country procuring arms for the Orangemen, and large collections of arms and ammunition were made for them on the easy terms of paying for them by instalments. He believed that the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland was aware of this. In one place 3,000 arms had been registered. What, then, ought to be done in such a state of things? In the first place. he thought that the religion of the majority of the people of Ireland ought to be scrupulously regarded. The affections of the people ought to be cultivated, and every abuse ought to be found out with a keen eye, and cut away with a firm hand. Such were the means they ought to adopt instead of fruitlessly scattering the revenue of the country in supporting troops in Ireland. The Hon. Gentleman then referred to the opinion of Lord Bacon, who, after giving a very flattering de scription of the fertility of Ireland, and her bold, hardy, and active population, said that they ought to unite the hand of man with the hand of nature to elevate and raise her. An Hon. Gentleman said last night that the discontent of Ireland was owing to the physical discontent of her people. He denied that that was the fact. No doubt it was one cause ; but the poorer classes of Ireland were not those who were most discontented. It was the educated class wko felt themselves to be inadequately repre sented and who were most discontented. Notwithstanding what had been said by the Right Hen. Gentleman to explain the striking off of the Catholics from the panel, he confessed that he was not altogether satisfied. He was not satisfied that the proper measures had been taken with respect to Mr. Dunn ; and with regard to Mr. Hendrick, some charge appeared to be hanging over him which no one could guess at. The people of Ireland were diseonted at the manner in which justicehad been administered. It was not very gratifying, and could not be very satisfactory to the people of Ireland for him, the Lord Chief Justice of the Queen's Bench, to say that he spke under correction of this counsel for the Crown. That was not language which, in is opinion, ought to be used by so high a judicial functionary. There was no medium or safe course between a Government of conciliation tnd a Government of violence. He did not believe that her Majesty's present Government e s to the other contemplated oaG,,vernment by force f or an y l eng th o f ti me -- a e: course, that of conc ili a ti on an d concess i on , coundt a he knew it would be very disagreeable to them and to those who supported them—it would requ i re grea t pa ti ence great moderation and some considerable sacrifice, but they must make up th.ir minds that Ireland must be a Popish country—he knew that it was difficult, but they must make up their minds to it—not less than had been done in Scotland, of whie. country the institutions were in many respects at greater *ariance with the Anglican Church than was the Roman Catholic.—( Hear.) They must arrive at equality They must not remain in addition, substraction, and division, to arrive at equality,tiey must go to the rule of proportion—to the rule of three.—(Laughter.) But by ne posssibility could they reconcile the . present state of the Church to the feelings of the people or to justice. Could they by possibility make up their minds to go the length which he, and ethers on his side of the Reuse, thought they ought to go, they would no longer have to say that Ireland was then difficulty.—(Loud cheers.) The Hon. Member sat down amidst much cheering, in which his concluding sentence was quite lost. Mr. P. BORTHWICK said that in the able speech which the House had just heard, the Honourable Gentleman did dot say what remedies he would propose in the social, civil, or ecclesiastical institutions of Ireland. If the Hon ourable Gentleman prc•poied to establish the Roman Ca tholic Church in Ireland as the Presbyterian Church was established in Scotland, and he (Mr. Borthwick) thought that by far the most equitable and feasible arrangement. Yet he believed that the Hon. Member would have no more determined opponent to such a proposition than the Noble Doctor who sat beside him (Lord John Russell). With respect to the late trials, he mist conf e ss that h e had look e d upon it with dread. He thought that one result of it must be that it would increase the influence of the Libe rator, who would now •be regarded by the people not merely as an agitator, but as a martyr in their cause. However, it would have this advantage, that it would enable the Government to advance to Ireland with measures of concilaton, when they were in a condition to say that concession, had not been extorted by intimidation—when they had put an end to those multitudinous meetings which disquieted Ireland, and, he might say, alarmed Europe. What benefit did they expect would arise from a debate on the sufferings of Ireland in that House? Why, none what ever—or rather the effect of a debate which would be nothing but an interchange of charges between the opposing parties would be but to embitter the animosities which dis tracted that country and add to the fuel that consumed it. That would be the effect of a debate and not a remedy for the evils of the country. The Honourable Gentleman who had spoken last said that Mr. O'Connell was perfectly sincere in his desire to benefit his country. (LEFT SPEAKING.) LAW INTELLIGENCE. COURT OF CHANCERY, Feb. 14. IN RE S OMBRE.-LUNACY. Mr. WAKEFIELD and Mr. WALI'OLE renewed an applica tion made some short time ago for permission to the profes sional adviser for Mr. Sombre to inspect a box of papers, which might assist in traversing an inquisition by which Mr. Dyce Sombre had been found a lunatic. Mr. BETHEL!. and Mr. CALVERT took a preliminary objec tion, that Mr. Sombre was out of the jurisdiction of the Court, residing in Paris. The LORD CIIA - ~rtLort, after a long discussion, directed the case to stand oN atil a committee of the estate was appointed. An appeal was then heard, which, it was con tended, was for costs only, the arguments on which occupied the remainder of the day. VICE-CHANCERY COURT, Feb. 14. (Before the VICE-CHANCELLOR OF ENGLAND.) THE NEW ZEALAND COMPANY V. BARNEWELL. The arguments in this case were commenced to-day. Mr. Bethell and Mr. Heslop Clarke were heard on the part of the plaintiff, and the further arguments of the case were post poned to this day. COURT OF EXCHEQUER, Erb. 14. (Special Jury Cases before Mr. Baron GURNEY.) BECKWITH, GILMAN, AND OTHERS V. BULMER AND GILLAN. The action in this case was brought to recover from the defendants the amount of costs incurred in proceedings car ried on to obtain a Bill from Parliament for the improve ment of the town of Norwich, and which had been lost, in consequence, as averred by the plaintiffs, who are solicitors in Norwich, of the negligence of the defendants, who acted as their Parliamentary agents. The Bill in question con tained compulsory clauses in reference to the purchase, when expedient, of property within the borough ; and in respect to provisions of that kind, a Standing Order of the House of Lords, made in the year 1838, required that strict and special notice should be served on parties whose interests 'might be affected by them. In this instance th; • had not been complied with, and when the Bil been —2 L. , .. j • • tog Chairman of the t`niwnittee. ^: !-41m.p. 11, re turned it to the defendants, with of "wish to know what entitled the parties to co....pulsory terms." Notwithstanding the intimation conveyed in these words, the defendants did not take measures to comply with the order of the House. The consequence was, that the Bill was thrown out, and this action was brought to recover the amount of costs incurred in the vain endeavour to carry it. Mr. THESIaER (with Mr. Martin and Mr. Addison) ap peared for the defence, and drew from the evidence for the plaintiff inferences that there had not been negligence on the part of the defendants, and that Mr. Beckwith had joined with them in their various proceedings, and shared their re sponsibility. It was also proved that there had been an action for their costs in this case brought, and successfully, in the Court of Common Pleas, where the question of negli gence had been vainly urged against them, even on a motion for a new trial. The jury, without a moment's delay, gave in their verdict for the defendants. Y sen e te O nc U e R was T, s F ign eb e . d. l4. Dr. Daubeney sat for the Le arned Judge 11‘„sles:llit,oeAanryin,rs. Ann T ay l or. The parties were committed by M r . J o h n C . T ay l or (who was in at tendance at th e Judicial Commitee of the Privy Council), The case and disposea o f assignations. In the case o f " Taylor v. Tay- CONSISTOR prayedli v o e i r fte , h' referred Ee n dm o fo t t i i orl c y e b,a d yiGi ert l ge a hee s edn t married on the 18th of July, 1831, and cohabited together till May 27, 1842, when Mr. Taylor eloped with Emily Greenwood, and proceeded to New York. By the marriage with Mrs. Taylor the issue was four children. The suit was in poenam, there being no appearance for Mr. Taylor. CLITICI° Ssi U ORV ' FA..NE.) FREDERICK r FOX COOPER. Feb. 14. on petition for his interim order. He was the proprietor and editor of the late Cerberus news paper. It was contended that he was not a " trader," and there fore The baßnkAruN(pßliCtNecfßaoßmree u p could not be brought under the operation of the Bankrupt Act, and was, as the editor of a newspaper, placed in the same situation as an author or an artist, who could not re spectively be said to deal in paper or in canvas. The Learned COMMISSIONER, however, ordered the peti tion to be dismissed, but granted an adjournment till the Ist of March next, and the protection of the insolvent for that time. CENTRAL CRI VIINAL COURT. NEW COURT. TY THE MATTER OF T. HOLT. — Yesterday this de fendant, who stands charged with a misdemeanour, of which Lord William Paget is the prosecutor, was called, at the opening of the Court, to surrender, but he did not answer. Shortly afterwards he came into Court, when an application was made by Counsel for the trial to be postponed, on the ground that Mr. Holt required more time to prepare his defence. Mr. Commissioner BULLOCK granted the application, and his recog - nizances were enlarged to the next sessions, which will commence on the 4th of March next. _ _ The defendant was then re-conducted, by a tipstaff, to the Queen's Prison. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. CLERKENWELL. An elderly widow ofdi;t7essed appearance came before Mr. Combe, complaining that excessive interest had been de manded from her on a pledge by Mrs. Sarah Condwell, a pawnbroker, residing in Exmouth-street, Clerkenwell. Mr. COMBE, having heard her statement, sent Bingham, the warrant officer, to Mrs. Condwell's to inquire into the matter. _ Soon after, the pawnbroker's foreman and the poor woman came into Court. She stated that three years ago she pawned a petticoat in Mrs. Condwell's, which she had not been since able to redeem. The skin she obtained upon it was 3s. 6d., and by "backing" the article by the payment of interest, she had prevented the duplicate from expiring. On Monday last she tendered Sid. to the foreman as the yearly interest, but he refused to receive it, saying he would not ta ke less than a shilling. Having never paid so much interest before, and being very poor, she &dined complying with his demand, and came before the Magistrate. Mr. COMBE said the ,egal rate of interest would not en title the pawnbroker to more than what the applicant had offered. Why was it kot received?—The foreman said he asked the woman no more than he received from others. He was bound to ask what his employer wished, and not to take less. Mr. Comm told him he was not bound to commit an illegal act, and nothing wuld warrant him in doing so. In this case an attempt hat been made to charge an interest of fifty per cent. more than he was entitled to, and that from a poor widow. The woman, in answer to questions from the Clerk, said she had lost a great deal of time, and been at much trouble and inconvenience, in coming before the Court, and waiting on Mrs. Condwell on several occasions. Mr. CO3IBE recommended the :pawnbroker to allow her some compensation for loss of time. The foreman obsti nately refused, upon which the Clerk observed that Mrs. Condwell had rendered aerself liable to a fine of 10/. for charging excessive interest, and that in case the applicant laid the information, she inuld be entitled to half the p enalt y . This useful suggestion b r o u ght the foreman to his senses , and he made ample compensation to the poor widow , who thanked the worthy --agVtrate, and left the Cou rt. At - - , HAMMERSMITH. SERIOUS CHARGE AG4INST A RESPECTABLE TRADES MAN.—This Court was crowded to excess, in consequence of Mr. Samu e l N as h, a resptta b le m as t e r baker, residing at No. 3, Oak-te r r ace , N ott i nt-hill, b e i ng c harged before Mr. T. Poynter, the sitti ng Ma strate, with having committed a criminal assault upon th e , person o f Mary Horn, a young woman eighteen years of ale. Mr. Duncomb e , the sohltor, of Gray's Inn, attended to ti defend the prisoner. Mary Horn, a good-lookiq young woman, deposed that she had recently come up from Brighton, and was a stranger to London. She was now staying at No. 5, Clifton-street, Shepherd's Bush. For two or three weeks she had been living as servant at No. 4, Church-street, Ken sington, but had left there on Saturday last. On Monday morning last Mrs. Harris, at whose house she was staying, asked the prisoner if he would call with his cart for her (witness's) boxes, at the house in Church-street, which he agreed to do if she (wit ness) would meet him there between five and six o'clock that evening, in case her late master should wish to examine the boxes before they were removed. She did so, and when the boxes were placed in the cart he asked her to get in also, saying he was going straight home. On doing so she, how ever, found he turned his horse's head towards London. She asked him if that was the way home, when he said he was going to leave some bread in Kensington, which he did. He then still went on towards London, upon which she again said that was not the way home, when he said he was going to call at Knightsbridge. He, however, still went on, and on her asking him which was Sloane-street, Knightsbridge, he told her they were then at the Regent-circus, Piccadilly, and he inquired of a man the way to Holborn, where he told her he had a little law business to settle. On reaching Holborn the prisoner drove under a gateway into a square with a garden, where she got out of the cart and walked about by the horse until he returned. She then again got into the cart, thinking the prisoner was going to drive home, but he stopped at a public-house in Holborn, where lie induced her to go in and partake of some gin and water. On coining out the prisoner said he was going to call on a young man close by, and he drove to a street just out of Holborn, where he gave the horse and cart to a man to take care of. She said she would stop until he came out, but lie said she might as well go with him, which she eventually did. He then took her past two or three houses, when he turned back, saying he had passed where he was to see the young man, and took her into a house, the door of which was open, and going straight upstairs into a room where there was a bed and sofa. On looking round the room, she told the prisoner she had never before been taken into such a room as that, and she would not stop there. The prisoner, however, insisted that she should, and told her.to take off her bonnet or he would, which lie did. (The witness then related the particulars of the prisoner's conduct, which left no doubt that he had completed his purpose.) She helloed out, but no one came to her assistance, although she heard persons going up and down stairs. Prisoner called her a d—d fool for making such a noise ; but she told him she was not, as he had ruined her for life. He said he had not, and that she was a fool. The witness was then subjected to a most strict and search ing cross-examination by Mr. Duncombe, who endeavoured to show that she was a consenting party. She, however, most strongly denied that she had in any way consented, although she acknowledged; that he had attempted to take liberties with her before she got into the cart in Gray's Inn square ; that lie had put his arms round her waist in the cart, though she told him not, : before they got to Holborn, and that she had been to two public-houses with the pri- soner instead of one. It was also elicted from her that she went home with him afterwards in the cart (as she did not know her way), and that she told no person of the outrage until the next morning. She tried to get out of the room and away from the prisoner, but he had locked the door. Did not get home with him until half-past nine or ten o'clock, although they left Church-street between five and six o'clock. By Mr. PAYNTER—Was not the worse for liquor. Told the defendant she would tell Mrs. Harris and Mrs. Nash (his wife) what he had done; to which he replied, that he did not care a for either. Mr. Brown, surgeon, of Hope House, King-street, Ham mersmith, deposed to having examined Mary Horn on Tues day evening, and stated that he had no doubt but that the capital offence had been completed, and that more violence than usual had been used. The complainant's manners were those of a modest woman. Mrs. Priscilla Harris confirmed the complainant's state ment as to acquainting her next morning of the prisoner's conduct. Complainant said the reason she did not tell wit ness over night was, because witness's husband was in bed and would have heard it. By Mr. Duncombe—Complainant did not tell her own fa ther, although he lived only a few doors off. Mr. PAYNTER said he did not see there was any occasion to remand the case. The evidence for the ends of justice was complete, and the case must go to trial. Mr. Duncombe then applied for the prisoner to be admitted to bail; as the case was one in which it would be impossible to get up the evidence to disprove the charge, unless the pri soner was at large to do so. Mr. PAYNTER consented very reluctantly to the applica tion, saying lie did so not on any ground of doubt in his mind as to the prisoner's guilt. No such thing, he had no doubt ; and be should, therefore, require very high bail—viz., two sureties in 400/. each, and the prisoner in 800/. The bail was immediately tendered and accepted, and the prisoner was directed to attend at this Court on ➢londay next, when the depositions will be taken, and he will be formally committed to take his trial at the next sessions of the Cen tral Criminal Court. THE HAGUE, FEB. 11.—The sections of the Second Chamber of the States-General will begin their examination of the project of law relative to an extraordinary tax on property, and it is expected that the further discus sion of the financial law, now before the Chamber, will not take place till after the termination of the examination iu the sections. It is reported that General List will retire from the office of Minister of War, and that he will be suc ceeded by General Nepven, and likewise that M. Van Hall will be definitively appointed Minister of Finance. On Fri day last the Chevalier de Mize had an audience of his Ma jesty, in which he had the honour to present his credentials as resident Minister of her Majesty the Queen of Spain at the Court of the Netherlands. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 14. HORSE-RACING PENALTIES' REPEAL BILL. Mr. GlBSON—Really they could not sit there to draw distinctions of this kind. The Acts were levelled against gaming in general, and not against any parti cular sport. But that it would be occupying the time of the House, he would move that this statute be read by the clerk at the table. A 3revent -c. l tful and exces sit•c .tming. There were certain pastimes ana games 0110. 4 ' thnCca r , •- • p . I. There could be no u3aCi...ta u~._~r clout): that thlt Act', which was meant so apply to gaming, applied also to horse-racing. He thought that those who supported this Bill in the other House of Parliament must have been jesting when they call e d thi s Bill at present befor e th e House a "manly sport and a wholesome pastime Bill." This was an absurd ground for Right Rev. Prelates to take for supporting the Bill. It put him in mind of the lines " Great men may jest with saints, 'tis wit in them, But with the less foul profanation." —(Hear, hear.) Qui tam actions it was well known had been often brought before for small penalties, yet they never before heard of a gentleman going to that House, and asking for a Bill of Indemnity.—(Hear, hear.) There bad been numerous cases in which qui tam actions had been brought of late years. In 1816, a person named Hill had been prosecuted; in 1827, a person named Wilton had brought a qui tam action for gambling against a person named Taylor. That case was a remakable one. It had attracted the general attention of the' country. It had been brought before the House of Lords by writ of error, yet no one had thought of introducing a Bill of Indemnity. If the law was not what it ought to be, the Legislature had no one to thank for it but themselves. They had invited informers to take upon themselves the odium and the expense of prosecuting those cases ' • and they had a right to complain if the Legislature attempted to deprive them of those vested rights which it had bestowed upon them. It had been the policy of the Legislature which had held out to the informer the advantages which had given rise to these actions. Was it justice now to interfere to deprive the informer of his vested interest ?—(Hear, hear.) Would it not tend to lower the character of the Leg islature with the people ? Would it not be said that a ll t hose who had friends in high stations could suspend the operation of the law—could have Bills of Indemnity introduced to re lease them from the liability to penalties which they had incurred. In the year 1842 qui tam actions had been brought under the provisions of this very clause against a person named Bond—actions of a precisely similar character to those now under discussion.—(Cheers.) The law had been allowed to take its course. The plaintiff had recovered the full amount of the penalties. There was no insinuation that Bond had per mitted unfair play, but merely that he had offended against this particular statute.—(Hear, hear.) He did not consider that Bond was so much to blame as the parties who supported his establishment.—(Cheers.) He was not so much to blame for the supplying the demands of those who were supposed to be raised to elevated situations for the purpose of setting an example to the people, as those parties themselves. He felt bound to oppose the passing of this Bill of Indemnity until he had a resolution passed pledging the House to appoint a Committee to revise the laws relating to gambling. The pledge of a single Member was not sufficient. They had got them now into a corner, and it would not be right to let them escape out of their difficulty, until they had pledged themselves to revise the law generally. He, there fore, must press the resolution which he intended to propose as an amendment to the motion of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to a division. He would take the liberty of quoting from a Conserva tive journal an article on the prosecution of Bond. The Hon. Gentleman then read an extract from the Times of Thursday, Dcc. 8, 1842, expressing the satisfac tion which the conductors of that journal felt at the result of the prosecution of Bond, and stating that the country was not indebted to the Attorney and Solicitor Generals, nor to the Home Secretary, nor to the Society for the Prosecution of Vice, for that pro secution, as all those authorities seemed to consider that the Corinthian atmosphere of St. James's was out of their jurisdiction; they.were indebted for it to an artist of the name of Smith, and to an Act of the good old days of Queen Anne.—(Loud cheers.) That showed that the statute was perfectly well known. Bond had been ruined and forced to leave,the country. No Bill of Indemnity had been brought in for him ; no statute had been passed to prevent the rich from setting a bad ex ample to the poor. Judge Blackstone said that gaming in high life demanded the attention of the magis trates ; it was a passion to which every valuable con sideration was sacrificed, and which we seemed to have inherited from our ancestors, the Germans, whom Tacitus described as bewildered with the spirit of play. Hon. Members opposite had proposed stringent Acts for the regulation of public morals, and they could not now come forward to protect those who had violated the law.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member said it was a very common thing to come down to the House to relieve from penalties parties who had violated exist ing statutes. Ile was quite aware that circumstances had arisen in which it was desirable for the Legislature to interfere; but, as regarded the case of Mr. Wright, who prosecuted the clergy for not attending to their spiritual duties, he believed a more objectionable interfe rence had never occurred. The present Lord Chancellor on that occasion defended the common informer. Ile wished to take the matter on public principles. They must decide the question simply upon the grounds whether it was a case in whicn the Legislature should take the unusual course of adopting ex post facto legis lation. They must pledge themselves to revise the gaming laws before they discontinued those actions. They had given no such pledge. All they proposed was to relieve certain powerful individuals from the operation of those laws. This was not an obsolete law. It had been acted upon last year, and even a few days ago, and Lord Chief Justice Denman had pronounced a judgment under it not a week past. Penalties from Bond had been recovered under it not long since. It was impossible to maintain the plea that had been urged of ignorance of these laws. They were suspected of not wishing to re peal obsolete statutes. How often had magistrates under obsolete statutes fined and imprisoned poor men, and yet no one heard of giving the aggrieved party any in demnity, or of repealing the statutes under which they were punished ? lie would read for them extracts from the Reports of the Inspectors of Prisons.—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") A man, J. C., stated that he had been sentenced to pay a fine of one shilling, and 14s. costs, and because he was unable to pay these sums, he had been in prison for ten years.—(Hear, hear.) He had been summarily convicted before two magistrates for not attending Church on Sundays, and for not showing any reasonable cause for being absent. He was kept in prison until the fine was paid. Was there any leniency shown there— any Bill of Indemnity ? This law was admitted to be an antiquated law, but the man suffsred.—(Hear, hear.) What had the Legislature done to abolish or modify those cruel laws ? Had they shown any disposition to bring in a Bill on the subject ? In 1839, it appeared from the same Report that several persons underwent imprisonment .for trifling violations of the ecclesiastical law. One underwent 63 days' imprisonment, another 61, a- third 16, a fourth 12, a fifth 17, a sixth 12, a seventh 26, an eighth 16, a ninth 27, and a tenth three days' imprisonment—(Hear, .hear)—and when those people were released they were released on the payment of the fine and costs. The people believed that that House did not legislate for them, but for themselves. They believed that those laws on horse-racing would not have been altered but that certain Hon. Members and Noble Lords were not interested in their continu ance. They were not altered for the general welfare of the community—they were obsolete and antiquated laws, and were something similar to ,those on which the late State prosecutions in Ireland were founded.— (Oh, oh.) No, the great bulk of the , people, he repeated, were not aware that in attending those meetings they had been guilty of any offence, against the laws. The people of Ireland saw men high in station, legislators, ministers, contributing to public associations, and participating in public demonstrations. —(Hear, hear.) Why did not the Government prose cute the Anti-Corn-law League? They dared not prosecute the League.—(Hear, hear.) They used these antiquated statutes and unknown laws to serve their own purposes, and they had shown no disposition to administer justice without respect of persons.—(Hear, hear.) He would force his motion, and he would see whether gentlemen opposite were prepared to take away the penalties upon all gambling—whether of the poor or the rich, or only upon those kinds of gambling in which their own class was concerned.—(Hear, hear.) It would be wrong to deny that much had been done to repeal obnoxious statutes ; and especially in the laws relating to excise and customs, through the industry and sagacity of Mr. Deacon Hume; hundreds of Acts of Parliament had been compresrsO ! 'intO one small volume. But when the gentlemen opposite repealed the Acts inflicting the penalties for'4ffences against the excise and custom laws, they did not suspend the qui tam actions. The actions were persevered in, and the penal ties were enforced. He was bound to pay this tribute to a distinguished public servant, Mr. Hume, not only for his writings on political economy, but for the activity with which he discharged the duties which had been officially entrusted to him.—(Hear, hear.) He would not allow this to be treated as an unimportant question. (Hear, hear.) Many of the gentlemen who had intro duced him into that House were deeply concerned in the gambling of the turf, but there were also many other of his constituents who thought that all kinds of betting were immoral,. and ought to be put down. He was, therefore, placed in a difficult position ; but he would take the course which he con sidered to be right, without considering what might please any section of his constituents. For many of these gentlemen he had a great respect, but if they were his own brothel*, he would stand up in that House and resist any proposition for an ex post facto law to re lieve people of rank from the consequences of their trans gressions. —(Laughter.) He thought he should neglect his duty if he did not stand up and see that they legis lated equally for all classes of her Majesty's subjects. Before he sat down, he would make an appeal to the Government, for he presumed that this was a Cabinet question. It had received the consideration of her Ma jesty's Ministers, and was sanctioned by them in the House of Lords—at least, none of them opposed it—and he thought he was entitled in a matter of such importance as the interference with proceedings in the courts of law, to have the deliberate opinion, not only of the Prime Minister, if he were in his place, but of the law-officers of the Crown. He thought he was entitled especially to have the opinion of the At torney-General as to what he thought was the justice of the case. when so many others had paid penalties for similar transgressions of the law. He conceived that they were entitled to the deliberate • opinion of her Ma jesty's Government, whether they approved o f a measure like this, which permitted an ex post facto law to ride over the ancient enactments of our code. He said that those who were occupying ;he benches opposite, and to whom attached the responsibility of administering the laws of the country, were bound to say whether they were in favour or not of this sudden and partial altera tion of the law.—(Cries of "Hear, hear," and " Oh.") For it would not, do for them to let this measure piss quietly, and then pretend to the country that they 4,re not in favour of gaming—they must not set ur ttat character without any notice being taken of this measure by them. He deeply re •etted that at t Hon. Bar ~ ,net (Sir R. Peel) was not present on that most iny,..: - .rt:.‘nt occa sion.—(Laughter on the Ministerial benches, answered by cheers from t,11.,, casion like the present that they wanted the assistance of n ii.. n like him, who liar? great experience, to guide them in all their proceedings, and who had also influence enough with pity to make them do that which he might ti; ‘). the most proper and just. He said that :11 ' oeing present on that occasion the Right Ho. . • het was neglecting his duty.—(Laughter from cL •• easury benches.) Why he guided his party , of them opposite followed him in the most e .?' „mer.—(Great cheering and uproar.) He cot , ' them pass this law, or throw it out, by his ind: dual dictum.—(Great cheering from the Opposition, When, therefore, the Right Hon. Ba ronet chose to assume such an immense responsibility as he did in guiding the party which had to make the laws for the country, surely to allow it to be sup posed that. he shrank from his duty from an aversion to offend the prejudices of his friends, was not exactly commendable conduct.—(Hear, hear.) He re gretted also to observe the absence upon this occasion of all those Hon. Members who arrogated to themselves the guardianship of the morals and religion of the country.—(Cheers.) He did not choose to impute in tentions, but he could not refrain from saying, that it was a remarkable coincidence that upon a question so important to the morals of the country there should not be present in the House any of those. Ho nourable Members who, when the poor were 'to be schooled, when they were to be legislated into all sorts of virtuous and pious habits, were most promi nent in that labour.—(Cheers.) Those remarkable coin cidences certainly happened to all men—th e y h a d hap pened to himself sometimes.—(A laugh.) In conclusion he begged to say, that in his opinion the House ought not to have been called upon to consider a Manly Sports Bill, and the liabilities any indulgence in betting on those sports subjected individuals to; nor the question whether they ought to protect those who had violated the law to the injury of those who had not. If the attention of the House was to be called to the subject at all, it ought to be to the whole subject—with reference to the future, and not to the past. And therefore, enter taining strongly these opinions, he felt called upon to move, as an amendment to the motion, " That this House is of opinion, that if Parliament think fit to interfere for the purpose of staying legal proceedings which have been commenced under the sanction and authority of existing statutes, upon the ground that such statutes have become either obsolete, or that they ought not to be enforced, it is incumbent upon the Legislature to define some rule by which her Majesty's subjects may be able to ascertain those laws which are considered to have become obselete, or those to which obedience will not be required. That a Select Committee be appointed, to inquire into the existing statutes against gaming of every kind, and what penalties are enacted by such sta tutes, and whether the same, or any and what parts of such statutes have fallen into desuetude, or ought to be repealed." Lord J. MANNERS said the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had not only been the advocate of one side in this particular question, but had also been the advocate of one Hon. Member who wag not pi' sent to speak for himself. The Hon. Gentleman said that he had no guarantee that the House, if it consented to this Bill, would not still sanction the imposition of penalties on gambling ; thus, persons might hereafter be prose cuted for offences under the Act, while persons who had already offended could be relieved from the conse quences of their illegal acts. But it must be recollected that these offences had been committed inadvertently. the class of persons who were considered as tribunes of the people did not deserve the confidence of the people. He wished all those distinctions which had been created by obsolete statutes between the rich and the poor ab rogated altogether. It should, howeyer, be recollected, that the public attention had been just directed to the case of the person imprisoned for not attending church, by his Hon. Friend the Member for Pontefract. The law under which that person had suffered was - the rem nant of a wise and consistent system of legislation— (Hear)—which had been abrogated by the political an cestors of the Hon. Gentleman opposite.—(lronical cheers.) It was partly a system by which, after the poor people had attended the parish church, on the Sunday, they were permitted to indulge in manly sports and recreations during the rest of the day. The po litical ancestors of lion. Gentlemen opposite had re tained the odious part of the law, imposing the penalty, but had abrogated the cheerful part of it. He should support the Bill.---(Cheers.) Captain BERKELEY agreed with a great deal of what . had falle n f rom the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who introduced this Bill. But he wished the House would pause before it attempted to legislate on this sub ject. The p resent system of horse-racing was fraught with dishonesty and trickery. It was not the best horse that a lways won. Th ere was a system called PP betting in existence which had been productive of the most mis chievous effects. He thought the better course for the House to p ursue would be to stay for a period the pend ing actions, and in the meantime to take the whole subject of gambling into its consideration. If that course were pursued he• should be prepared to vote with the Hon. Gentleman opposite, but sooner than lend himself in any way to the continuance of the present dishonest practices in horse-racing he would vote with the Hon. Member behind him (Mr. Gibson). It was a very com mon stying that he who went upon the turf without a determination to be a rogue was next akin to a fool.—. (Cheers and laughter.) If the rules of the House would that this permit him, h e (C apta i n B er k e l e y) wo uld move debate be adjourned, in order that they might proceed with the debate on Irish affairs. Mr. M. MILNES thought that Hon. Gentlemen opP0: site might agree to this Bill, which was one simplf to relieve parties from enormous penalties which they bad unwittingly incurred, and they could still have the Com: mittee for which the Hon. Member for Manchester had moved. Mr. VERNON SMITH did not think a sufficient ease had been made out for the House of Commons to enter: tain this question. He did not think that the allegation s , in the preamble of th e Bill h a d b een ma de out. thought the proper cou r se th e H on . G en tl em an opposi i te ought to have pursued, would have been to have mos? for the producti o n o f th e R e p ort o f t h e S e l ec t Commit" tee appointed by the other House of Parliament, to i t y, quire into the subj ec t. He thought without this b s . ficient case had not been mad e ou t i n f avou r of those In whose behalf this Bill had been introduced. Colonel PEEL could say that he knew that man, t, those persons con sc i en ti ous ly b e li eve d t h a t, i n mak i n g bets upon horse-racing, th e y were comm itti ng no afore"' They believed, and he understood that this belief los borne out by the opinion of counsel, that bets made On the turf were legal. He himself had not been serv e d ~ with any notice of action (he had no d ou bt that he sho u ld be), but if he were to be summoned to give evidence "! any the trials, as to what bets h e h a d ma de, he nu.e s tioned whether a judge would caution him that in giving such evidence, he was makin g a case aga i n st himse e He thought the preamble of the Bill had been fully born out, and he for one could say that he had always cc''' scientiously believed that bets on the turf were legal. Mr. HUME said that if the opinion of counsel had been taken upon this ma tt er , there was no necess o for this Bill, inasmuch as from what had fallen frct the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, that opinio n was in favour of th e legality of the bets. He though t u the best plan in this ca s e wou ld be to suspend t pending actions for three mo n th s , in order that t he subject might be well considered. The present gave power to any person against whom actions ru: penalties for gambling were b roug ht, t o c all up O F: judge to dismiss the case with cos t s . H e did not Op!: they were in a position to grant this. He thought the ought to agree to the adjournment o f the debate, as P .. thought that on a subject of s u c h i m p or t ance the presen c e of the Right Hon. Baronet at th e h ea d o f the Gover n " 0 , ment was absolutely necessary. Thi s was a gamblin g Bill, and indirectly promoted and prot ec ted gamblin e The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that if th e Right Hon. Gentleman looked more closely to the clauses of the Bill, that provision was express for the point to which h e r e f erre d. Th e operation of the Act was not to extend beyond the space of three months, and any proceedings at law would be stayed. Mr. HUME—Yes, after the lapse of three months. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL--Just so. Althouf d i : by this Bill the pendin g c as es wou ld be di s continue d there was nothing to prevent the actions being broug h t afresh unless they were quashed by the Legislat° r _t When the Bill went into C omm itt ee th e H on . Gentlear must move for the inserti on o f th e wor d ses pend" . % stead of " discontinue," whi c h h e apprehended w.,,„ ...° w e answer all his purposes.—(H ear .) Th e H on . Mewr he for Manchester talked about thi s Bill disregarding:. of poor, and having reference o n ly t o t h e amusemen t 0 f the rich. He did not know what particular sectiot e ,, the House the Hon. Member meant by " you," or iv:, they he meant to allude to any particular Member. 1; 4 his own part, he (the Attorney. General) would say t oy he had never been behindhand in evincing sYnig e s for the poor, or in protecting their privileges. be was no Hon. Member more ready or willing tha n l e was to abolish obsolete Acts, through which the pip might unwittingly have offended against the laws hoped the Bill would be allowed to go into C o mmittee tit a few words from M r . C. BERKELEY' House divided, when there appeared— For the motion Against it .... Majority On our admission to th e Gallery, we found the iro i r: discussing the propriety o f go i ng i nto C omm itt e e oti . t i n; Bill. That discussion h av i ng b een conc l u d e d, the J ) " .. was ordered to be committed on Wednesday next. ~,e Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished to ask what vias.,7,l intention of the Government as t o p u bli c b us iness. -I A they intend that the important motion he had brio forward should be pro cee d e d w i t h t h at n i g ht, or t other business that had been put upon the pager , es cially that of the Hon. Member for Montrose, shoal proceeded with in preference? Sir J. GRAHAM said that it was th e i n t e ntion of the Government to give precedence to the adjourned debit,' on the Irish question.—(Hear.) IRELAND.—THE ADJOURNED DEEAT . . Lord LEVESON th en rose to a dd ress the 0,701.- He believed th a t i n th e speec h of the Noble Lino night those great principles were cont a ined, on h ear alone could be p ro p er l y governed.—(Hear. hvi He wished to see liberal principles infused into Ire- - „. 0 —(Hear)---for it was impos s ibl e t o d en y that the Pe7:,, of Ireland had been kept up lately by military force. (Hear.) He hoped they would never continue the e. vernment by such means.—(Hear, hear.) Had, t oi would ask, the governm en t o f I re l an d b ee n condor Std properly ?—(Hear.) Why the first o ffi ces of the St, had been given to men whose principles and wily; politics were not congenial to the people of Rebut if What had been the case at the late trial ? Why, th_, el ,, had been tried before four Protestant judges, by a j u r y of twelve Orangemen.—(Hear.) Was it be wonder': at that the people of Ireland should feel some exasl 34l ,ll tion at this ?—(Cheers.) The Established Church ° he not prospered, in consequence, in his opinion, of t ap protection it had received from the State. It did not,. its (hay if if rp-r -people.—(Hear, hear.) He considered that many P e r, sons the education of w r : sons thought too much of the protection of the A ttie Whoever travelled' through France, Belgium, an l ob North of Germany, must perceive the difference wu' t , existed between those countries and England, owill e b this exclusive protection. After trespassing so mo an on the time of the House, he could not do better tn _t conclude with the wo r d s of one of the most eloq ue ; men who ever sat in this House. Mr. Brougham , l hol y Lord - Brougham, cautioned the House to beware .011 ,„ they converted disco n t en t i nto rage ; how they qhel raged discontent to rage with new weapons. ;t w o alone were responsible if, th roug h th e ir orps" Ireland was torn from the m o th er countr y.--(uL lee h r th e Mr. B. COCHRANE sa id he had listened w't-The greatest pleasure to the speech of the Noble Lord: ..„,/ evils which affli c t e d I re l and had been attribute d to 1 0 7. causes ; to the existence of the Established Church,bot, union, the state of the suffrage, and other sources, reg a in his opinion, none of them was the real evil. Th e _ i ry evil they had to d ea l w i t h, was the great physical u"'", t e be which existed in th e country. The resource s 0i so p country were great, yet the country was, fc ' r with years, in a state of wretchedness and disaffection. t t he regard to the Church it was universally known t lut o tt, Catholic clergy would refuse a provision from the S o w and at a late meeting of the Roman Catholics of woe land, Lord Camoys, who presided at that meeting. _l reported to have said that he entirely 03il is c i , tb• in the propriety o f th e d ec i s i on come to "I no. Irish Roman Catholic Bishops. They mild 1 01 X thing then, in that di rec ti on , f or t h e b enef i t o f R e f t he If the Noble Lord wished to appropriate a part . o k o ovf revenues of the Establi s h e d Church, he did no t a fter how it could be rec e i ve d by the Roman Catholics' Ile their late declaration to refuse a State provision- and was kindly disposed t owar d s t h e people o f Ireland' so . towards their religion. H e was of opinion that,. perior class of p ersons oug h t to be educated for toe CO' man Catholic Church in Ireland. The evil of the oily.. try was its misery, and when they considered th e P e d it sical wants which the people of that country en,,,t r e - k" was not to be wondered at that they comP'd no t (Hear, hear.) People in their situation CO reason ; they could on ly comp l a i n. He hoped, 'oar fore, that some measure would be introduced tto Olt borate the social condition of the people. Ttib.oa!, Gentleman then referred to the report of the "-* d t ina Commission to show the state of the country, " i n ors the greatest benefits would result if the waste lanus gs t he reclaimed.—(Hear, hear.) Another great evil absentee drain, and while it continued the people that it land would not cease to complain. It appeared to hin 2 .,,„,* paid would be a great benefit if the Lord Lieutenant ofr' joy'. • was not changed with every change of the id,,, in ut i a lia Such men as Lord Normanby and the Duke of lb le of, in former times, who were beloved by the Pe c T oo gst Ireland, ought to have been allowed to remain a w ee ept them. The Hon. Gentleman then referred to the I e in trials. He thought this was not a time to WI g higll harsh tirades.—(Hear, hear.) A man who stoo d hist in the estimation of the people of Ireland had heSi o ot convicted of a conspiracy against the State. Ile 00 pretend to say that Mr. O'Connell had not done f good for his coun t ry — t h at at the comm encentent h ° ,ol 6. . career he might not h ave b een influenced b y hig h the rations, but that for me d no excuse for his conduct cote, present time. Manlius, who saved the Ronion.::' fie was afterwards punished for a conspiracy taar i n st w eep s trusted the people o f I re l and would now 9a 11 be, ° ! view of the question, and that this conviction w o '• - io tne great service to the country. He would siT c oo& words of a great judge, that it was not throng 4 on ing the sid es o f t h e Constitution, not by trataP u o ttai o the laws of th e country, that they could hope to ! d uct the results th e y soug h t. It was not by su ch et or they could enlist the sympathies of othe'; eo .) add to the number of their friends. -- ( He d ar 'f r o u r tur t h : They should a l ways f ee l w i th the peop l e , an people, and c h eer th em on w i t h h opes of the Member for He quite agreed with the Nobl e Lord, the b ter the City of Lo n d on , th at i t wou ld h ave been Is r , fire hoot if the proclamati on h a d b een i ssue d earlier. roes.. ventured in that House to suggest the adoption keo cive measures. That observation was met by tf ebo cf. sarcasm of the Noble Lord, the Secretary for a_ ve!! This was in the month of July, and when P,_ ,:est y broke up no one imagined what course her Me.' a! Government would take. The Right Hon : Gen' 9 on it wa d at the Head of the Home Department, sai d _,, twa r account of the meeting at Clontarf, with its u" ev en - ' and visible signs, that the proclamation was. this tually issued. There was nothing abot h , ov er in the indictment, the charges in which were spre efutre9. the space of nine months.—(Hear.) In charges ° f ! ti t son and conspiracy there should be no room foll' i l t u o h ld the nature of the crime should be so clear that A be en might understand it. If m e eting after meeting r do i ff w held, and men did not k now th a t w hat they wer e g o was illegal, they might ask, in the words of Ser a " Where has this tr eason b een so l on g conceal ed s aid (Hear, hear.) The N o bl e L or d (L or d J. Russe ll ) and they should legislat e f or I re l an d, not on ly on Ju hro e) wise principles, but gen erous l y . H e (Mr. E. C'' e ner ons trusted that they wo u ld l eg i s l ate f or I re l an d in a g e ve r the spirit; that their f u t ure v i ctor i es wou ld b e victories onot.- affections and sy m p a thi es o f t h at no bl e and L 464 hearted nation Pe • and that by constant and unr'ThesS, consideration for their welfare peace and htlf:,te,b• truth and justice,- religion and c harity, m i g ht be fished in Ireland:, N Y Lord;CLE'MgMM,- d listened with much ! 5 ) the sp,e4dii)fitidt Hon, Baronet (Sir qb 112 25 __ ? ~ ; L~ ~'~ ,--;