The Sun. — London, England, 1845-05-17 00:00:00

Who was at that time at the head of the Board of Trade, and he had from private communica -4: . reason to believe that it was not that gentleman's 1 ntien to have stopped there, for he foresaw that as raflway projects were introduced some further regula ttons would have to be adopted. He should, therefore, awe that the clause of which he had given notice eheuid form one of the standing orders of the House. Should experience prove that this was unnecessary, it could be very easily rescinded. The Hon. Member then moved that a clause be added to the Bill authorising the Railway Department of the Board of Trade to the following effect : And be it further enacted, that nothing herein contained shall be deemed or construed to exempt the railway by this or the said recited Acts authorised to be made from the provisions of any general Act relating to such Bills, or of any general Act relating to railways, which may hereafter pass during the present or any future session of Parliament, and that the said resolution be a standing order of this House. Mr. GISBORNE objected to these frequent attempts at patching up the standing orders. Mr. DARBY thought the motion ought to be ad journed to a more eouvenient time. Mr. HAWES thought a longer notice of the motion ought to have been given, and that the motion ought to be brought forward in a fuller House. He would sug gest that the motion should be deferred for a week. Sir G. CLERK hoped his Hon. Friend would adopt the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Lambeth. He (Sir G. Clerk) had only that moment heard of the motion. Mr. LABOUCELERE agreed with the principle of the motion, but thought it ought to be postponed to a more convenient period. Mr. GLADSTONE recommended his Hon. Friend to defer the motion. The motion was then withdrawn, and Mr. S. WORT LEY gave notice that he should renew it next week. DUBLIN AND MULLINGAR RAILWAY. The Lord Mayor of Dublin, appeared at the bar, in his official robes, and presented a petition in favour of the Dublin, Mullingar, and Athlone Railway Bill. MANCHESTER AND LIVERPOOL RAILWAY. On the motion of Mr. ENTWISLE, the Manches ter and Liverpool Railway Bill was read a second time. BIRMINGHAM, GLOUCESTER, AND WORCES- TER RAILWAY. On the motion of Mr. SPOONER, the Birmingham and Gloucester (Worcester Extension) Railway Bill was read a second time. Captain PECHELL presented a petition from William Trubshoo of Euston, in Essex, consplaining of his treat ment at the hands of the Commissioners of Assessed Taxes in surcharging him for a game certifitate. Colonel WOOD presented a petition from Brecon, against the grant to Maynooth. Lord MAHON presented a petition against the Pa rochial Settlement Bill. Sir. W. SOMERVILLE presented a petition from Drogheda, in favour of the Dublin and Belfast Junction Railway Bill. k. LEFROY moved for leave of absence for Sir Arthur Brooke.—Agreed to. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. Sir R. PEEL moved, that after Monday, the 2d of bine, orders of the day should have precedence over asOticest of motions on Thursdays. He had taken, care emit this would not in any way interfere with any ex isting motions Mr. IL BERKELEY said that the proposition of the Might Honourable Ban net would very materially interfere with the motion of w hich he had given notice, . . ,• and which was of considerable interest. He had given attite of the postponezneut of that motion, as ho had bean unable, on two several occasions, to obtsin a firspaae. Ile must say, that the expressed intention a 1 the Right Honourable Baronet would preclude the chance of its coming on then, and he trusted that the Government would give some assurance that he should bt alk,wed to bring it forward on the day it stood cal the paper for. His mt,tion referred to an amendment of the Insolvency Act passed last session. Sir R. PEEL said that he was not aware that any Member of the Governrneet was a party to the keeping away of Members. This was evidenced the other even ing, when the Ilonoyrable Member for Finsbnry made a speech, to which the Government had had no oppor tunity of replying. lie could assure the Honourable Meneeer eliat he should offer no impediment to the bring iris of his motion. Mr. H. BERKELEY sn'd that Le did not wish to make a speech, and if a Committee were granted him he should be perfectly setisfied. Dr. BOWRING sail that a very great anxiety pre. veiled on the subject of the lion. 2,l4mber'e motion, and he thought the nomination of a Committee was im peratively called for. Mr. WARD :aid that he also had a motion on the paper relative to the ogricultural interests of the country, which he had not had an opportunity of bring ii g forward, and he was afraid he should not have a chance of bringing it on this session. Ho attached no blame, however, to the Right Hon. Baronet. Mr. WAKLET sail, that as reference had been made to him, he felt bound to say that though, on the other evening, he had had an opportunity of saving a great deal, vet he h a d no t ex p resse d th e h a lf o f what he in tended to have said.--(lronical cheers, and cries of " Oh, oh.") Ile wonbi admit that be had finished as the finger of the clock was approl.firhing the fatal hour of seven, and ha expected that as the Right Honourable Gentleman was going to reply, the Hone would have listened to him. Immediately bef'ore that period there were between fifty and sixty Meeibere prtent, and it might be remembered that when the Right Hon. Baronet the Home Secretary opened the question, there were not more than thirteen Members present ; yet, even under these circumstances, no attempt had been made on that (the Opposition) side 10 get rid of the motion by counting the House out. If the public business was to be got rid of in this'sort of way, he would like to kaovr how any business at all could be done ? He did think that such a course should slot be persevered in, if it was intended that the business of the country was to be attended to. He saw Joy the paper that the Right Honourable Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government had a notice of potion, to the effect he would move that after the 13th of June orders of the day should take precedence of , notices of motion. If that should be agreed to, he would like to know what chance any Hon. Member had of bringing on any motions of which he might hare given notice. He should say they had no chance whatever. Therefore he would say that if the flight Hon. Gentleman would withdraw his mess of a Medical Bill, La (Mr. Wakley) would not say a word more upon the .subject—(Hear, and a laugh)—but in its present form it was utterly impossible it could be carried. Mr. -STAFFORD O'BRIEN begged to say a few words in reply to the lion. Member opposite, as he had mule his (Mrs O'Brien's) name ale most striking part of ids speech. Now, he begged to say that the Hon. Member was mistaken altogether about him; for he had received en intimation or suggestion whatever frem the Right Bon. Baronet to move that the House be counted. *mar. hear.) But, he would say, that during the ernech of the Hon. Gentleman he (Mr. O'Brien) had re exiled repeated applications to move that the House be counted, from Hon. Members opposite.—(Laughter, and cries of "Name, name.") At one period of the Hon. Gentleman's speech there were not more than twelve Members present but even then he (Mr. O'Brien) declined to Interrupt the Hon. Member—(Hear, and leaghter)—for he said he spoke well—and it would be better to hear what he had to say in that House than et the Reform Club—(Laughter) — and when the Hon. Member had done, he ( Mr. O'Brien) intended to m ye that the House be counted, but he had received no intimation whatever to that effect from the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir James Graham). However, as he now understood that he had Interrupted the Hon. Member before he had done, he begged to apologise to him.—(Laughter.) Captain PECHELL presented a petition from Mr. James Stretch, of the county of Southampton, formerly ea paymaster and purser in the navy, for a balance due to him, which he could not obtain though ho frequently epplied to the Government for it. SUPPLY. On the motion that the Speaker should leave the stair on the House going into Committee of Supply on the Navy Estimates, Mr. TRELAWNET, according to notice, brought under the consideration of the House the case of Mr. John Seceombs, mortgagee of the ship Velocity, seized and brought into Plymouth for an act of smuggling committed without the knowledge of the owner. Mr. CARDWELL said that he deemed it right to say a few words about the facts of the case. In the month of October last the ship Velocity was seized and brought into Plymouth harbour ; the circumstance which led to its seizure was a quantity of contraband goods being found on board, and when the Custom-house officers entered the vessel, they were forcibly detained, and tied fast in the cabin. It was true that in this Instance the petitioner was only the mortgagee, and might not have had any participation in the guilt of the transaction, but the law recognised nO distinction, and under such circumstances it was impossible for the Go vernment to exercise any discretion. He much regretted that any individual should suffer, but in the present in stance it could not be avoided without making a dange rous precedent. _ gTATE OF THF NAVY Captain BERKELEY called the . attention of the House to the present'of manning • her Majesty's Nary, and the difficuly systemtat arises in procuring able sea men for her Majesty's service. The ha, Hon. and Galla n t Mem ber proceeded to say, th at he had been influenced by party or factious motives in . bringing the state .of the nary under the consideration of the House, whether in or out of office- - on that or on the other s id e of the House, office—whether allow any consideration whatever' to e s e w n ay his conduct. never would %yar comple - He did not like to see sea comp , . neents, or place complement,-., beca use h e t, ' nt sva. , ,theth that was considered them all nonsense ; a proper complernr required. He would refer the Hon , and Gallant l; Admiral to a letter which he (Capt. Berkeley) had written to Sir e co r g e Seymour. In that letter he sent Before Si t ; George for manning the navy on principle. Seymour entered office he said that the sugaest -1 which he (Captain Bz•rkeley) had made wass .3on which the Board ought to adopt , and he b r a 'e : Jieved that Sir George Seymour was quite as anxious to carry out the principle after he came inlo odice, as he was before. It appeared that ships of 84 guns had the same number of men as ships of 8.1 gulls, eoneequ: , ntly one ship must have too many men, or :the other must have too few. Give him a single deck ship, a two-deck ship, or a three-deck ship --give him the number of guns and the weight of metal each had to carry, and in one moment he would tell what was the proper complement each ship ought to bear. lle found that, under the present system, ships of 90 guns, and 92 guns and 104 guns, were all classed with the same number of men. Now, was not that an absurdity? Sir G. COCKBURN—It is not so. Captain BERKELEY said the only method that he THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 17, 1845. had of knowing was by looking to the returns of the ships, and, as far as he could judge from those, the ships he had named were classed the same. Sir G. COCKBURN—The 104-gun ships are not. Captain BERKELEY eon tinued—W h y then was there no difference between the 90 guns and the 92-gun ships? It was as great a fault to over-man as to under-man a ship, for in all cases the crews should be proportioned to the number of guns. But above all things, it was unwise to send the experimental squadron to sea under-manned. —(Hear, hear.) Certainly a better man could not have been chosen than the Gallant Admiral who was to take that squadron to sea. But he feared that the result would be disappointment in consequence of the want of a suffi cient complement of able seamen. The consequence would be that the officers and the captains would become discontented with each other, and the Admiral would " blow up" them all. The Hon. and Gallant Officer then read a letter of considerable length from Sir Hyde Parker, but from the low and rapid manner in which he read it, we could only gather that the Gallant Ocffier disapproved of the mode - in which the experimental squadron was to be manned. Now he would go back to 1836. He was going to show that this was not the only board that acted in this way, but that other boards acted in a similar way. In 1836 he was appointed to a ship. There were seven ships of the line building at that time. He found at that time ' that there was the greatest difficulty in getting men, and other captains were in the same predicament. They were obliged to have recourse to the coast-guard service. It was stated that they had no reason to complain, for the same class of ships as that which he commanded bore the same number of men now. It was well known that captains were anxious to get able-bodied seamen, and men came to him and said that they would enter for his ship, provided ho would enter them as able-bodied sea men, but he told them he did not consider there as such. He feared he was wearying the House with these de tails, but this was a subject of the greatest importance to the House and to the public; and whether they were landsmen or seamen they should all consider that this was a question on which the safety of the navy depended. The Hon. Member then described the duties of a sailor, and said that in former days no man was deemed an efficient seaman until he was thoroughly conversant with those duties; but now-a-days sailors were very dif ferent indeed, and so they would continue to be until his plan should be adopted. When he was out upon a voyage recently ho found that out of twelve of his crew there were only seven who knew how to go into the chains and use the lead. When ou that station, he re ceived an order from the then Board of Admiralty, stating that the men in his ship should be allowed to volunteer into any other ship. On receiving this order, ho took it on himself to do that which he conceived was required by the peculiar circumstances of the case. But he was well aware that if he threw difficulties ia the way of the Board of Admiralty—if he endeavoured to shirk the order which they had given him—he should not be doing his duty. He therefore addressed a letter to Sir William Gage, and he told him that if any man from his ship were allowed to volunteer into any other, he should not be able to bring her home—he would not undertake to bring her home. Sir William Gage, who commanded on the station, came on beard his ship ; he examined the company, he went through the whole of them, and then he said that he should not take one man from him, nor allow them to volunteer into any other ship. Ile recollected, in 1836, that there was one man who was asked at the rendezvous how long he was at sea, and on informing them that he was twenty-two years at sea, he was put down as an able-bodied seaman. But the tact turned out to be that he was a discharged marine.— (Laughter.) The Hon. and Gallant Member then road an exeraet from a letter which he had received, in 1839, from P.Jetemonth, which stated that the Powerful an chored after dark, and the men were in such a state that they took more than hilt an hour furling the sails, and the main-top they could not furL In 1810 he (Captain Berkeley) was appointed to her Majesty's ship the Thunderer, and it appeared that the few rood men whom he had in the llercules were paid off and t came to the Thunderer. He sent an officer to Plymouth, and Sir David Dunn sent one to Portsmouth. Sir David Dunn told him there was no use in having a rendezvous in Plymouth while the Thunderer was in Portscouth. Sir David Duun told him (Captain Berkeley) that when he asked able seamen in the streets to join his ship, they said " No, we will go to the Thunderer, f‘r the officers there make the work light, and wish to see their ship fully and properly manned." lie asiced the Gallant ' Officer eppocite was not that accounting for the under inenned state of the nary. The lion. and Gallant Ad miral 11,141, 801113 nights ago, hinted that the blame of de ! .. • I nciency was nut owing to him, but to the Chancel 0e of the Exchequer, who would rot supply the funds. If he r (Ceetain Berkeley) were in the Hon. Gentleman's place, if they did not give him men eueugh, he would make his bo-.v and withdraw from offiee.--(llear, hear.) lie would now piss on to show why men could not Le ols• tained. The first great reason was the general use of steam-boats substituting machinery foi heed labour. Let them look to Liverpool and the other great pone, e rel they would find that passage-bents- had been eleirele laid aside. At Plymouth and Portsmouth a great !lumber of wherries were formerly in use, and a great number of persons were thus trained to the sea ; but this description of vessel was now but litale used. ile would now again turn for a moment to the ease of the Thunderer, from which he had been diverted by an interruption from the Honeurable Gentleman opposite The course they were pursuing would not do. They ought to have a system fur manning ships and they ought not to break faith with the seamen. They ought not to do with the men what they had done with them , in China. It was true they had given batta to them, hat the fact was, they had not given them prize money for what they had done in China. What had beets done ? Why, Government had taken everything, and given their seamen nothing. And now, let him ask, why was it that he had taken the trouble to make these statements? In former times the merchant service was a sort of nursery for The men-of-war ; but now the • ships were rigged in dock by old Greenwich pensioners, and, in fact, it was the men-of-war witp fur nished the merchant service with men. He , did not expect that the Board of Admiralty would be induced to remedy those defects of which he complained, merely because he made these , representations ; but those discussions would have a very useful effect out of doors ; and it often happened that they tended to carry a point; for upon a former occa- , sion be was defeated in that House by a large majority upon a motion that he had brought forward ; but it was looked upon as so important by the public, that the Whig First Lord of the Admiralty, who then came into office, expressed his approval of the project, because public opinion and the tires§ were in favour of it.— (Hear, hear.) He meant the affair of the ten-gun brigs. --(Hear, hear.) He would not trouble the House with any further observation& `air G. COCKBURN said he should answer the state ments of the Gallant Officer, first, by saying that he was , very much surprised to hear the Gallant Officer begin his speech by charging him (Sir G. Cockburn) with baring stated that he conceived there was no difficulty whatever in manning the fleet. Now he (Sir George Cockburn) had stated exactly the reverse of that, for he said it had been found impossible to get efficient men when they were wanted ; and that when men were dis- , charged from a man-of-war they either went into foileign service or the merchant service, or got some sort of em ployment, for they required bread as well me other men; and then, in three or four years time, if they should happen to be wanted, they were not to be had. But at present the state of the navy was not so bad as the Gal lant Officer supposed, for all the vessels were well manned, ' except, ho believed, the Queen, the Hibernia, and the Canopus. As to what the Gallant Officer had stated about men unfit to use the lead in the chains, he (Sir G. Cockburn) begged to say that when he was in oom- ' mated of a ship he always tried his men before he rated them. Captain BERKEUJY said that the men he bad men tioned had been sent to him rated. Sir G. COCKBURN then continued, by saying that very few vessels of war had now more than six or eight landsmen each in them. He concurred in the observa tions of the Gallant Officer, that men-of-war sent abroad should be manned by efficient seamen. When he (Sir G. Cockburn) was in command of a ship, the navy was is a most efficient state, because it was necessary then ; and he remembered, upon one occasion, that several men-of-war were ready at forty-eight hours' notice to sail for Lisbon. He could assure the Gallant Officer that means had lately been adopted to procure efficient men ; and when the vessels now in preparation wero ready, they would be taken to the mouth of the Channel, and the qualifications of the sailors and marines then tried. As to what had been said about not having tea sail of the line always in commission and ready for sea at a short notice, that was matter for the consideration of Government, and they would have them ready if they should deem it necessary, but the question was, was it necessary to put the country tosuch an expense at such a period.—(Hear, hear.) With re gard to men entering the merchant service in preference to the navy, he conceived that the contrary was the fact, for when men entered the merchant service they were so badly treated, and had so many deductions made from them,. that they entered the navy when they could.— ' (Hear, hear.) He did not know that he had left any other point of the Gallant Officer's speech unnoticed. Mr. SOMES remarked that a good deal had been said of the paucity of men at present in the navy, and fur his part he could not understani how Hon. Members could indulge in assertions of this nature. In 1814 the num ber of seamen in the service was 170,876, and at the present time the number was 216,350, making an increase of 42,000. He however admitted that the number of men who were active and able had not increased in propor tion to the quality that were in the service in 1814. Mr. H. LAMBTON complained that the crimping system was the cause of the existence of great evils amongst seamen. Numbers of poor sailers who entered the port of London were daily being plundered by these crimps, and he thought Government ought to take some steps to put an end to the system. There was another abuse which ought to be put down. When sailors Caine into the port of Loudon they were seized upon by low boarding-house keepers, who plunged them into every sort of vice, and when they had got all their money out of them they turned them into the streets to starve. He hoped Government would take these matters into their serious consideration, aid see if there Was u g s r 's e . at a could not bo devised to put an ell ' J these 131:7 means scarcity of men in thesaisd,:rviee I S: 4 4 tri a t s l tei the i re was a w t h t i l e i h e p e r x e i s s e te n- d t time, but ebuntavhye t(d)ittihnisotetitizo , b ' n ' t rather te' to the want of experienced and efficient otEer.rs well known that when they arri ve d at a certain Li t t n was life they began to think women were not so handsomeof as they had before imagined them ; an d, i n hi s opinion, some llon. Memhz , rs had arrived at that time of life when they began to think seamen wero not so able and active as they were formerly.—(Laughter.) But if they wished to have good seamen in the service, they must take care to have active and experienced officers over them. At present ships were allowed to remain at home, and he thought, of all th# absurdities in the world, that of suffering a full-manned vessel never to leave her moor ings was the greatest. These vessels were supplied with some thirty or forty-five active young fellows, whet were anxiously expecting that they would one day become officers, but whose inexperience did more injury to the service than anything else. He recollected an instance of a line-of-battle ship having been kept at her moorings for three years and three months, and then sent to sea. Now, what was the result ? Why, half the seamen were sea-sick, and the vessel itself was found unseaworthy. If they wanted to have an efficient service, they must place active and experienced officers over the men, and not put persons in command who had never seen a storm or a squall. He would break up the fifteen line-of-battle ships, and distribute the men and officers amongst small brigs. If Government would adopt this plan, the service would be restored to its former state, for thus the men and the officers would have an opportunity of being constantly at sea and in squalls. Captain PECUELL concurred with the Hon. and Gallant Member who had just sat down, and thought it was sufficiently clear that the Hon. and Gallant Member admitted the existence of the want of men in the navy. Now he should be glad if the Hon. and Gallant Member would explain how it happened that when he was in com mand of the Pique, and was required of his superior ofiiicer to furl a sail, or to perform some other manoeuvre whilst in the Bay of Cadiz, he stated that he was unable to do so because some of his men were absent in a boat. Why did not the Hon. and Gallant Member state the real cause of his being unable to perform it, namely, that his ship was not sufficiently manned. Captain ROUS—It is the first time I over heard of it. Captain PECHELL said he had been informed of the circumstance by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Gloucester, who at the time it occurred was in command in the bay of Cadiz. He believed they had the will to man their ships properly, but they would not effect that object in the way they were proceeding. He complained of the way that men were transferred from one ship to another. The moment a ship was paid off, the seaman whether belonging to the navy or merchant service was considered a mark to be plundered by every person who was so inclined—that was a system which ought to be reprobated. Another thing which seamen had to com plain of was their being placed in the ten-gun brigs. It was well known that they were unsafe, and not fit to be used as the means of conveyance between this country. What was the opinion of the country with respect to them? Why, several of those vessels were offered for sale at Somerset House by Mr. Corry and Sir William Symonds. They asked 1,0001. for each of them, but they would not fetch even 5001. Then, again, they had good reason to complain as to the payment of their wages. They felt that they were not paid well enough, and he told them it would be well to raise the wages of seamen now, when it was probable that they would be obliged to raise them in a short time. His Hon. Friend alluded to the want of able-bodied men. That was a matter which the country had a deep interest in. How could it be expected that those able-bodied men would come to them, when their wages were so small ? They would not come back till a more liberal system was adopted towards them. They were gone, he was afraid, to America and elsewhere, where they were better paid. The Gallant Officer stated that it was the intention of the Government to man the experimental squadron, and to give the ships the proper complements. That was very good, but what he (Captain Pechell) wanted was, that the same system should be carried out generally with regard to the navy. Those ships may not be wanted alone at the chops of the Channel. They might! be wanted again at Tangiers. to look after the Prince de doinville and the Belle Poole. They were told they ought not to speak of that Prince; but if their presence were wanted in any part of the world, they ought to he in a position to enable them to be there with effect. He knew that the Admiralty were not the great obstacle to what he required. Ile knew the great obstacle was the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who was a millstone around the necks of the Board. But there were the Hon. Member for Montrose and the Hon. Member for Coventry, who looked so well after the pub lie puree, and they had no ebjection to see the navy of the country put into a proper and efficient condition. Mr. SOMES explained. Lord INGESTRE rose for the purpose of expressing his assent to what had fallen from his Hon. and Gallant Friend the Member for Westminster. He thought that no more important question could come before the House than the way in which their ships were manned. The Hon. and Gallant Member for Brighton had spoken ' of the way in which the seamen belonging to the navy were treated ; but he believed that they had more com forts in the British navy than in any service in the world. He gave the present Government credit for wishing to see the navy properly manned. Sir C. NAPIER said that the Right Hon. and Gallant Oilieer had frequently complained that the lion. e'embers on his (Sir C. Napier's) side of the House were constantly finding fault. The same assertion had been repeated on that night. He declared now, as be had clone on former occasions, that he . had no wish whatever to find fault with any B Lard of Admiralty— the present or any other—however constituted. He felt satisfied that his IL,n. Friend the Member for Glou cester did not get up for the purpose of finding fault. It was not their interest to find fault. Had he (Sir C. Napier) remained silent— had he behaved himself in a proper tnanner—(Laughter)—he would be now in a better position. The Hot,. and Gallant Officer srai:ed at this, but it was not the less likely that had he be , l more quiet, and ltsss given to the fair and open ex pression of his opinion on naval matters, he would now Lacy been in command of the experimental squadron, or at least of on , : of the ships belonging to it. A Lord of the Admiralty hid assured him that he would have been very happy to see him in command, and had ask,d him what ship he liked ; but when he subsequently expressed surprise at having been passed over, he was told that he was too violent and too much of a party man. He disclaimed being a party Klan, or a violent man, upon any question in which the naval service of this country was concerned, and he defied any cno to show it. lle had long sought, by private representations to the Admiralty, to reform abuses, and render the service more effective, but found such representations utterly useless. Nothing could be done for the navy in that House, except by agitation.— (Hear.) It was the only way to get ships properly manned and fitted out. Unless when driven by public opinion, the Government never would abandon their old course. The Gallant Officer seemed offended that his Hon. and Gallant Friend should have said, on a former occasion, that tho navy was not sufficiently manned ; and the Gallant Officer then said, or at least was reported to have said, that the ships were as well manned as in war time. The next morning, when he (Sir Charles Napier) went to the United Service Club, he was at once surrounded by about twenty officers who asked him if it were possible j that Sir George Cockburn had said, that ships were as well manned as they used to be. He answered that he believed it was, and thoy expressed their surprise at such a statemeot. The Gallant Officer further stated that he had mustered the ships and found them well manned. His (Sir C. Napier's) opinion was, that the eight sail of the line now in commission wore very badly manned. He was in Portsmouth a few days ago, and asked many inferior officers there (whose names he would not mention, because it would probably be inju rious to them) what there opinions were as to the state of the navy, and the general opinion was, that the ships were extremely ill-manned. He could not conceive why those men would say so, if it were not the case, and it also seemed strange that the Gallant Officer opposite should express himself with confidence in a directly opposite manner. This would be very puzzling, was it not very well known, that the Admiralty was not the place which truth could reach. Officers looking out for employment were always ready to put that construction upon the state of the navy which they thought would please the Board. He did net blame the Admiralty for not manning the ships. It was not their fault—they were placed there to do the best they could—the fault lay with the Government. When the present Government came into power, they found 26 sail of the line in commission, most of which had been at sea for a considerable time, and their crews in a good state of discipline ; but the Government re duced that number to five or six. The first year they reduced the fleet in the Mediterranean to twelve ; the next to eight ; and the third to one. When they were in difficulties, all they could produce was three sail of the line, and one of these had to go to South America. They had now a fleet of ten sail of the line, and he hoped they at least would be well manned and efficiently fitted out.—(Hear, hear.) The Gallant Officer expressed his surprise that they should get the men so quick. Why, what did he call quick ? In January or December last the first ship was commissioned, and they were then in the middle of May, and eight sail of the line were net ready. Surely there must be some bungling here, wherever or however that bungling took place. Ships which had left Plymouth commissioned, were brought into Portsmouth, and taken into dock for examination, to have an inspection of their bottoms, at a cost of 500/. or 600/. to the country, and after being commissioned, they were taken into dock again Why could not this inspection have taken place before they were commissioned ? He thought the Government were wrong in pursuing this eisonomical course. If th e y wished to have a proper squadron they must not send the ships to sea with inferior crews. When such was the case officers became slovenly, and the men dissatis fied. Things could not be done with that instantaneous precision and dispatch so necessary on board a ship, nor, indeed, in a manner befitting the dignity of a British man-of-war. The men were incensed and disgusted with eternal work, and were much in the same condition as Sir Pulteney Malcolm spoke of, when he said, they were " all hands all day, and every body at night."—(Bear, hear.) If they wished to make the naval service popular, they must give up all Notions of this miserable economy. It %RS better to send but few ships to sea, but send those few properly manned. It W:l3 not the number of men ‘%hich was so expensive, but the wear and tear of the ships. If the ships were fitted out on a more liberal scale, men would be obtained with more ease, and sailors would discharge their duty when they had but their own proper duty to perform, with a more hearty goodwill. The Hon. and Gallant Commodore then mentioned the defective man ning of the Albion, which, though a very large 9.1-gun ship, had only the same number or mrn as the Thua dorer, of' less capacity. He felt surtnised that the Hoa. anti Gallant Baronet should tell his Hon. and Gallant Friend that seamen were as good as ever. It was im possible that such should be the case. Their seamen had been destroyed by the steam-vessels. They might have very good stokers, engineers, and coalheavers now, but not sailors.—(Hear, I - ear.) They might find such m esiti e ir n .pes a s b iol l : e etr to soe h fde a ad ul a mainsail, but were they the sort of men that would run up the top of the yards on a cold and stormy night? —were they the sort of men to get d by iffic r u ai l l t a ( , firmedsteam what nboew,l I b e y a r, ear. ) Even in donea s . o n rt the time,a trade.grea great whichmTehae would be Hon. Gentlemen opposite might coastingin might laugh, but steam had been a great blow to the • • of training seamen, Lord Melville said, some years ago, that we could no longer depend on the merchant service, but must look to ourselves, and keep up a larger proportion of men in training. The same observation now forcibly applied, and he called upon the First Lord of the Trea sury and the Government to come forward in a liberal spirit and supply the deficiency of the navy. Though the cloud to which the Right lion. Baronet a few even ings ago adverted was likely to pass away, they should not forget that last year they were on the very verge of a rupture with France. There were two other evils to which he wished to call the attention of the House. The first was to the men's clothing, and the second their pay. Men should be paid by twelve months in the year, and not by thirteen, as was the present way—an absurd practice, which had nothing but antiquity to recommend it. Again, the pay of the petty officer should be varied, so as to give him confidence in his position, and make a substantial distinction between his position and that of the common seaman. The first class potty officer ought to receive 41. a month, and the second 31. As regarded the present system of clothing, the sooner it was aban doned the better. Nobody was benefited by it but the contractor. The men ought to be clothed at the ports at which they touched. They ought to be measured and fitted out in a proper manner, and not on that poor slop-shop system,which was a disgrace to theßritish navy. The institution to which he had referred was the Sea man's Home in London. That institution had been founded by Captain Elliott, a commander in the navy, at his own especial risk, nay, indeed, he had risked his whole fortune in establishing the institution. It was an institution of a highly important and valuable character. Most men would have thought that some mark of dis tinction would have been conferred on an officer for such a sacrifice as this. But no such mark had been con ferred. Yet this institution took men out of the hands of the crimps, provided them a comfortable and re spectable home, where they could obtain everything on moderate terms. He thought some means might have been adopted by the Board of Admiralty to avoid the ex cessive charges to which seamen were subject, for the system of crimps had become a regular traffic. The men were laid hold of— they were taken on board ship, and charged a high price for everything they required. Their clothing was of the worst description, and all the articles they obtained were hardly worth one-half of the money which they gave for them.—(" Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) Hon." Gentlemen might say " Hear, hear," but he had been obliged to employ crimps himself.—(llear.) The men were laid hold of— they were made half drunk a few shillings wrapped up in a pound-note were shoved into their hands, and they were told that they had been paid two months' wages in advance. He had seen this practised on three or four hundred men at a time. He stated these circumstances because he wished to obtain effieient sea men for the service. This had occurred not in the time of the present Government.—(Hear.) lie did not care a farthing about parties when speaking of the navy. He bad urged upon the preceding Government, though he was not at that time a Member of the House, the pro priety of making some small grant to the Sailors' home — something that would enable it to lift its head above water when it was in great difficulty. And now he would urge upon the present Government the same thing. If they would make only a small bounty, it would enable the institution to reduce the charge of board to the men from 12s. to Bs. per week. He would do more than this, for he would venture to press upon the Government the necessity of establishing Sailors' Homes at Portsmouth, Plymouth, and all the other places where ships were paid off. If they did this, the seamen, instead of falling into the hands of the sharks when they returned from a voyage, would be able to go to a place where they would obtain every aiscommoda tion at a reasonable rate, .where they could leave their things, and when they went on a cruise, as they were sure to do, they could put ss. or 10s. into their pockets, and the rest would be taken care of, instead of as now spending the earnings of years in the extravagance of a week.—(Hear.) There was but another subject to which he would allude—the prize-money in China. The ships taken in that country, of which there had been a great number, instead of being regularly condemned, had been sent into different ports and afterwards re turned into the Chinese at a very reduced rating-. The seamen had been sent to China, an unhealthy country. They had honestly earned their prize-money and they had been always accustomed to receive it ; and yet he believed that the East India Company at this time was in possession of 150,000/. from the sale of guns and other stores, and that more than 80,000/ of Bette money had never been paid which was duo for the Canton campaign. He did not think it was fair that the seamen should be deprived of their prize-money, in order that the Government might obtain .a sum from the Chinese towards defraying the expenses of the war. This, he thought, was a penny-wise and a pound-foolish system. He would not trouble the House with any further ob servations, but he had been anxious to bring the subject of the navy strongly ender the notice of Government. Mr WILLIAMS had a very high respect for the opiniens of the two Gentlemen who had spoken on his side of the Houie, but he had a very great objection to in creasing the navy estimates, and he thought the matter had better be left in the hands of the Government. Lord PALMERSTON begged the attention of the House to a few observations on the slave trade. The other night he felt it his duty to put a few ques tions to the Right Hon Baronet, and he was sorry t ) say that his replies were anything but satisfactory. He him self had reason to be dissatisfied with the annual returns not having been given in the present year at so early a period as they had been for some years past, and he must also say, that they were not of the same useful and ex plicit character as formerly. The observations of the Right Hon. Baronet only went to convey an opinion on the experience of the last three years, but from the re port on the slave-trade it appeared the Government had been not only undoing all that had been accomplished by those who went before them, but had also, in some in stances, absolutely frustrated what they themselves had done. He stated this because it bad reference to the rea sons which had induced the country to wish to see the slave-trade suppressed. The treaties with the several Powers had provided that they should prohibit themselves not only from engaging in the slave-trade themselves, but that they should also submit to a mutual right of search. Their object was not only to prevsnt the slave-trade from being car ried on with those countries into which slaves were im ported, but also to hinder their transmission from the places whence they came. It was not to be expected that the countries which had carried on this trade could change their habits all at once. They could not expect that Spain, Portugal, and Brazil could all at once ac cede to the wishes of the other powers, however much they might desire to do so. What was the state of things when the last Government came into power in 1835 ? These were the declarations of the several Congresses from 1815 to 1822, of the wish to - abolish this nefarious traffic, but these remained as de clarations only. No stipulations had been entered into to give power to the British cruisers to carry their com missions into effect. The late Government had entered into treaties with no less than twelve Powers for the suppression of the slave-trade. The United States had entered into two general treaties, by which they bound themselves not to engage in the slave-trade, and under which they gave power to the vessels of other nations to suppress it in American- bottoms. A treaty had been entered into with Spain, which gave power to all vessels south of the equator. A similar treaty had also been entered into with Sweden. With Algiers, Tripoli, Tunis, and also Madagascar, treaties had been entered into for the release of all white Christian slaves. This was the case when the present Govern ment had entered office. What further did the last ; Government do ? They contracted no lessthii;eiiit:en I treaties with different countries. With France they had formed peculiar engagements. They had entered into a special contract with Denmark. They had obtained an additional clause from Sardinia —from Spain— , from Sweden—from the Netherlands—from Hanover— from Chili—from Venezuela — Buenos:Ayres—Ureguay —Hayti—and also from Muskat. They were also mak ' ing arrangements with Bolivia, Texas, and Mexico ; but there was no power in these treaties to enforce their execution. A stipulation was necessary for that effect. But this was not the whole of their attention to this subject. They had entered into arrangements with the chiefs on the western coast of Africa, to prevent the de portation of slaves ; aid there were six treaties completed ' when the present Government came into power in 1841. They had also entered into arrangements with Cuba to obtain the release of British subjects who bad been either kidnapped from Sierra Leone or legally sold in the market of that island. They had obtained engage ments .from Spain and Brazil to give liberty to the slaves called Emancipados, who, although they were said to be set at liberty by the laws, were still retained in actual slavery. This is what the last Government had actually effected. They had accomplished the league with the five great Powers of Europe to sup press the slave trade, and had they remained in office they would also have obtained the ratification of France. If the present Government had only used common diligence on their accesion to office, there would have be en no t i me f or t h ose i n trigues in the French Chambers which had occasioned the non ratification of that treaty. He had asked the Right Hon. Baronet, the other night, why he had not obtained the accession of Hanover, Belgium, and Greece, to that treaty ; and he would now ask him what reason could be given why those powers had not given in their adherence to the principle after the treaty had been signed by Austria, Prussia, and the other Powers who had become parties to it ?—(Hear.) He di,l not see the conclusiveness of the argument. Did the Right Hon. Gereleman say that the influence of France, in Europ e , was p aramou nt to that of Austria, Russia, Prussia, and England ? He (Lord Palmerston) thought that such an admission was no compliment to the three Powers—Bel g i um Greece, and Hanover — which had not be addressed, in consequence of that deferenee to French influence. He thought it was the duty of her Majesty's Government to have addressed themselves to every Power, whose assistance they could expect to obtain. Ile thou g ht th ey oug h t to h a ve made the Inv?, tatiens, and left it to the three Powers to state their reasons for decli n i ng them.—(flesr, hear.) The silent acquiescence of her Majesty's Government in the re fusal of the French Minister to ratify the treaty which he himselr, as Ambassador, had nep tilted, was no encouragement to other rower s to pive us their co-operation. The French Minister stated in the Chambers that his refusal had met with no re monstrance from her Majesty's Government — (lloan) He would now emoe to the Ashburton treaty, which set aside the former treaty of Washington, whereby the American Government was baind to use the best en deavours to suppress the slave trade. Now he would ask, was it enough to send five ships to watch the whole line of the vast coast of Africa to prevent the prosecution of the slave trade under the Amerie:.n flag?—(dear, hear.) There was another stipulation in the treaty by which the two parties bound themselves to unite in remon strances with countries which allowed the slave-trade to be carried on. .But what had they done?—what did the Right Honourable Baronet state to him (Lord Pal merston) the other night ? Why, that it had been de. cided that a joint representation to the two etvere hr Great - Britain. would look like dictation—(Hear, and that it had been thought better that the representa tion should be made separately lest the feelings of the Brazilian and Spanish people should be hurt by the ap pearance of dictation. But it was not delicacy to Brazil or Spain that caused the deviation. The feelings of Narvaez might be hurt. The feelings of General Valdez might be hurt. But the value of the representation would have depended upon what the Right Hon. Baronet called wounded feelings.—(Cheers.) Everybody who knew anything of diplomacy must know that representa tions made by two nations were of far greater force than separate representations.—(Hear, hear.) The joint re presentations would have been disagreeable to those Spaniards and Brazilians who were interested in carrying on a felonious trade in defiance of the laws of their own nations.—(Hear, hear.) Again, what had the Go vernment done with respect to the slavery of British subjects in Cuba and Surinam? The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that they could not in justice do any thing for the liberation of those persona, unless it were shown that they were British subjects born free. Happily, the actions of the Government had been better than their theory. In the very papers in which that slavish doctrine was expressed, fie found that the libera tion of British subjects had been demanded and ob tained.—(Cheers.) (The Noble Lord then read an ex tract from the papers referred to, demanding the libera tion of British subjects detained in slavery at Cuba.) That document expressed the opinion which he had al ways maintained when in office. Now, with respect to the Cemmission which was to have been appointed— as to the importation of slaves into Cuba and Brazil contrary to the laws of those countries. He thought that, if there was any apprehension that retrospective law would have created confusion, the law might be made prospective. As to what was going on in the negotiation between the ,Commissioners appointed by France and this country, the general impression in the public mind was that it was intended to return to some of the measures proposed by the late Government, such as the destruction of the barracoons and the blockade of the coast. To both these measures the present Govern ment had expressed themselves hostile when out of office. He was pleased to hope that they had changed their views, for he believed that if these measures were adopted they would produce great and important results. He had heard also that the treaty of 1826, relating to mixed Commissions and the right of search, were at an end. He should be glad to hear from the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, that that was not the case. By that treaty Brazil had bound itself to allow its own subjects engaged in this traffic to be dealt with as pirates. He held that by that treaty we had a right to exact from Brazil the suppression of the trade. The Government had proposed to send out to Rio Janeiro, for the pur pose of procuring a renewal of the commercial treaty, and if the object had been to prevent Brazil from co-operating with us for the suppression of the slave trade, a more ingenious course could not be taken. It was not required as a condition of the treaty that Brazil should fulfil her engageusetts for the suppression of the slave trade, but that slavery in Brazil should be modi fied—a demand as hopeless and inadmissible as to re quire the landed gentry of this country to come forward of their free-will and abolish the corn-laws.--(Hear.) Here then we were supporting a great domestic monopoly, under the pretence that we could not admit Brazilian sugar unless slavery was modi fied in that territory ; and we abstained from a united remonstrance against the violation of solemn engage menu, when we did not hesitate to offend the most deeply rooted prejudices of the nation. He believed that attention to other matters had prevented her Majesty's Government from giving a due attention to this subject. But he hoped they would give it greater attention, and thet they would show to other Governments a determi nation to use all the means of political influence 2nd of physical coercion which Great Britain possessed, to put down the slave trade. He trusted that the papers would be laid upon the table of the House within a cer tain period. Sir R. PEEL—In respect to the period when the slave-trade papers for the present 3-ear will be laid upon the table, I have a confident hope that they will be in the hands of Members at an earlier date than when they were prepared under the superintendence of the Noble Lord. The slave trade papers will be placed upon the table on an early day. It will then be seen whether the accusation of lukewarmness and indifference is or is not well-funded ; and if it be, the Noble Lord will have the materials before him for criminating the Government. That I think will be a much better mode of testing the opinion of the Heim on their conduct, than by making, as the Noble Lord has frequently done, speeches on the general question, nut leafing to any practical result.— (Cheers.) The Noble Lord has touched upon somepoints upon which he knows I cannot now make any observation. The time, however, must shortly arrive when the course pursued by Government may be made known, but in the mean time my lips must be sealed. It is pretty evident that th e Noble Lord expects that some arrangement is to be made with France which will be much more successful for the abo lition of the slave trade than any formerly entered into. The Noble Lord has talked of the blockade of the coast of Africa, of the destruction of barracoons, and he says that no doubt we shall be successful in a joint effort with France. It is quite clear, therefore, that he anticipates some mo:t beneficial and powerful effect to be produced on the traffic; but he inquires if it be true that Brazil has lately publicly notified that she considers at an end the subsidiary convention for fifteen years, calculating from the date of the suppression of the slave trade. The state of the case is this—our original treaty was with Portugal, Brazil being then a dependency, and bound by the engagements of the mother country. The separation of Brazil from Portugal took place about the year 1825, and in 1826 Brazil, as an independent state, entered into a treaty with England to the same effect as that with Portugal as regarded the sup. pression of the slave trade. Within three years ,af ter the ratification of the treaty she was bound to declare for the suppression of the slave trade—the sup pression of it by law, but I am afraid not the actual and practical suppression. This brings us to 1830, and a variety of conventions were entered into of very doubtful import, and it became a question whether Brazil, after the lapse of fifteen years, had had a right to declare the subsidiary convention at an end. If she had that right, the period, I think, arrived on the 13th March last, and she has made that declaration. As the account was only received by the last mail, the Noble Lord will not expect from me the statement of any positive opinion whether Brazil is or is not entitled to declare the con vention at an end; but whether she is or is not, there is no doubt that she is bound by an engagement of perma nent operation. There is a treaty between this country and Brazil which provides that "it shall not be lawful for the subjects of the Emperor of Brazil to be concerned in carrying on the African slave trade under any pretext or in any manner ; and that carrying on the trade after the year 1830, by a subject of the Emperor of Brazil, shall be deemed and treated as piracy."—(Cheers.) Thai is the engagement at present in force, and I have the satisfaction of knowing that it cannot be terminated by any act on the part of Brazil. It has declared that the carrying on the slave trade by any subject of the Emperor is an act of piracy; and it is not merely a law of Brazil making it piracy, but an engagement with Eng land that it shall be treated as an act of piracy. The Noble Lord has referred to the answer I gave on a former night with respect to the operation of the treaty signed and ratified by the four great Powers of Europe; and I have only to re-state now what I stated then— that France having refused to ratify the treaty, it be came a matter of serious consideration whether it was politic to exercise the right which other Powers pos• sessed— viz., to invite the four other Powers of Europe, not being parties to the treaty, to enter into the ratifica tion. I will not now enter into the then existing cir cumstances: the House will be aware of the political matters, unconnected with the question of the slave trade, which induced France to refuse her ratification: it is notorious that they were connected with transactions in 1840—with the Syrian campaign, and with the termi nation of the friendly alliance which had previously existed. I forbear to discuss new who was the party with whom the blame rests; there cannot be a doubt, however, that political considerations connected with the treaty of July, 1840, and the Syrian campaign, were the real cause why France declined to ratify the treaty. The Noble Lord would make us responsible for delay in the signature; we are free from any such imputation. We succeeded to power in August or September, 1841, and it was not from any negligence on our part that the signature of France was not attached to the treaty. Circum stances occurred in the Chambers that prevented the ratification, and if the Noble Lord thought that we were entitled to resent the non-ratification, why did he not call the attention of the House to it at the time ? (Cheers:) We did all we could to impress upon France the duty she owed in this respect to the cause of hu manity, and the question was, whether we were entitled to insist on the ratification of the treaty. We certainly thought not, judging either from past usage or the law of nations; and, not being entitled to insist, it became a question in what manner we should direct any remon strance against the act of a country to which she was entitled to resort. As to our passiveness and indiffe rence on the refusal of France to ratify the treaty, the Noble Lord is unquestionably under an erroneous impres sion. The question of ratification came before the popular assembly of France, and, exercising the power which popular assemblies occasionally do exercise, the executive government found it expedient to refuse to ratify the treaty. The grave question then arose whether it was politic to invite the three other powers contem plated by the treaty—viz , Belgium, Hanover, and Greece, to concur in the engagement. The Noble Lord himself says that lie always sew that with the bad ex ample set by France there would be great difficulty in procuring their assent. He admitted it in the course of his speech. I am not prepared to say that Hanover might not have acquiesced, and the Noble Lord asks why an appeal was not made to Hanover ? If Hanover had complied, Belgium might have refused, and the re fusal by Belgium would have more than counterbalanced the compliance of Hanover.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, however, insists that we have undone what he ef fected. It is very easy to make such charges, but diffi cult to prove them even now, and it will be still more diffi cult when the Noble Lord sees, not merely the papers that have been, but the papers that will be, presented. I give the charges a positive denial, and I main tain that it will be seen that we have shown no apathy or indifference. The Noble Lord contends that we bare not even wined what we might have gained under the treaty of Ghent. He talks of eighty guns sent to the coast of Africa by the United States; but let me ask how many guns did the Noble Lord procure to be sent ? (Hear, hear.) Did he induce the United States to send one gun to the coast of Africa ? I therefore assert that we procured more active co-operation than any the Noble Lord was able to gain while he had the tenure of office. But he talks of a stipulation in the treaty of Washington, which he again pleases himself by calling a capitulation. Let me inform him, however, that in America, in reference to that treaty, they are applying to their own Government the very terms of the Noble Lorri • tbr" , ' c Yery ee pressesee.---,esaigi4tei.) lne) Ch arse wll ii executive with having entered, not into a treaty, bat into a capitulation.—(Hear.) They urge that, if certain do cuments had been produced, it is impossible that such an engagement could have been entered into ; and we are to recollect that it is the very treaty which, having been negotiated and concluded by my Noble Friend, received the cordial approbation of this House. I hope, there fore, that the character of the treaty will not be judged by the representations of the Noble Lord, who is evi dently more mortified by it than by any other act of his successors in office.—(Cheers.) My Noble Friend had great difficulties to contend with, and it is not to be for gotten that, had the two States of Maine and Massachus sets withheld their assent, it might have been impossible to have overcome those difficulties. Ido not think that the majority of this House will lightly estimate the wis dom and perseverance of my Noble Friend, in concluding such formidable differences and preserving our amicable relations.—(Cheers.) I should like to know what we lost by that treaty, and whether, while removing the danger of immediate hostile collision, my Noble Friend, Lord Ashburton, really sacrificed the honour or the interests of his country?—(Much cheering.) But there was a power in the treaty to make joint representations to powers car rying on the slave-trade, and directly after the signature of the treaty negotiations took place between Mr. Eve rett and my Noble Friend Lord Aberdeen on the subject; they thought that the representations ought not to be made simultaneously and conjointly. The subject was considered and discussed, whether it was more likely that a beneficial effect would be produced on Brazil and Spain by a separate or by a joint representation. The Noble Lord says that we wished to spare the feelings of Brazil. That was not our object. We considered only the best mode of efilicting the end in view, and when the papers are produced, the Noble Lord will see that we did not spare the feelings either of Brazil or Spain. I believe, too, that the United States were not influenced by any desire to consult the delicate feelings of Brazil; but what I said on a former day was, that this country feared that if representations were made jointly, they would be less effectual than if each country acted by itself. If the Noble Lord will refer to the language used by our Mi nister at Rio Janeiro in denouncing the continuance of this infamous traffic, and the connivance at it by subor dinate authorities in Brazil, he will not find that the feelings of that State were consulted, but that the strongest language was employed to force upon Brazil the moral and poitical duty of strict adherence to her treaties. These were the considerations which induced my Noble Friend at the head of ForeigrfAffairs, and the Minister of the United States, to abstain from joint re monstrances. I have gone over, I believe, the principal observations of the Noble Lord. I give the Noble Lord all credit for an earnest desire, mani fested throughout, to abolish the slave trade, but I do not believe that the end would be accomplished by an assumption of power by this country which she has no means to enforce. I allow that we ought to make every effort consistent with actual en gagements and the law of rations to compel other coun tries to put an end to this traffic. I would use every persuasion, and urge every motive for concurrence with US in this undertaking ; but I doubt whether our diffi culties, instead of being diminished, would not be in creased, if we were to place ourselves decidedly in the wrong, even in enforcing the admitted rights of humanity. If it could be substantiated, if it could be shown that we are indifferent to the suppression of this monstrous evil, so degrading to civilised nations, I should deeply regret that Ministers had laid themselves open to just censure ; and in such a case no condemnation could hardly be too severe for the Government of a country which had made such sacrifices for the suppression not only of the slave trade, but for the abolition of slavery.—(Cheers.) Lord PALMERSTON said that he never meant to argue that the' Government should violate the law of nations. What he meant to say was, that there were treaties, if properly carried into eflect, which would put an end to the slave trade altogether. Mr. P. HOWARD deprecated any difference being made between any Foreign States. He hoped in the next sea-ion some measurres would be adopted by which the impolitic course that had hitherto been pursued would he avoided. The House then went into Committee, and upon The vote of 129,0921. for the salaries of Admiralty officers, Mr. lIAWES objected to the vote. He had the au thority of Colonel Maberly in stating that noff.ing could be more incorrect than the Post-office return which was laid on the table of the House. The return was as yet unexplained by the Government. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Honourable Gentleman called for an explana tion of the account with respectto the Post-office revenue. He could, however, satisfy the House that the return was not opsu to the objections of the Hon. Gentleman. When it was first presented to Parliament, and when he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) sat on the ether side of the House, he stated that the real revenue was very small, if they deducte:l the whole expense of collecting that revenue. After making that statement, he moved fur a return not merely of what the Post-office produced, but also what were the charges necessarily incurred, in producing the revenue, which included the expense of the packets and the delivery. The greater part of the Post-office revenues was borne in the naval account. It was thought better after that to conduct the packages in the King's ships, and consequently the charge which had been made against the revenues of the Post-office, became charged in the naval estimates, while the receipts remained in the Post-office. It was necessary to put on one side all that was paid for the conveyance, and on the other all that had-been received by the Post-office. Mr. HAWES said a few words in explanation, and alluded to a deputation, which was received by Sir R. Peel, two years ago, when the Right Hon. Gentleman suited that the Post-office revenue did not amount to 500,000/. or 600,000/., but only to 110,000/., for the purpose of creating an unfavourable impressidh of the penny postage. Sir R. PEEL said that he was entirely misunder stood, and that nothing was further from his mind than to show that the arrangement was a had one, for he wished most cordially for its success. In answer to the deputation, he said that the net produce of the Post office did not amount to five or six hundred thousand pounds, for the purpose of removing an erroneous im pression which they laboured under, not for the purpose of making unfavourable contrasts. Mr. WILLIAMS said that the net amount, up to the sth of April, was 699,0001, and the charges for packets amounted to 544,0001., leaving a net revenue of 155,000/. Mr. WARBURTON did not think that the Post- office should be charged with the whole of the cost of con structing the packets, seeing that they had been built in a very expensive manner, in order that, upon an emer gency, they might be turned into war steamers. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the return which he had made was not a compara tive one. Sir C. NAPIER believed that so long as the Board of Admiralty was constituted as it now was, a great deal of money would be uselessly expended. He had always been opposed to a civilian ruling the navy. The sur veyor of the navy and the storekeeper were responsible for their department, and yet they had a Lord of the Admiral!) , appointed over each of them. Dr. BO WRING did not think that the public accounts could be satisfactorily kept unless the departments of receipt and expenditure were separated. CaptainPECHELL said he would wish to bring before the House the case of the pursers of the navy, who were a class of very meritorious and deserving officers; and in doing so he only regretted that they had not entrusted their case to an Hon. Member calculated to do it justice. He held in his hand a memorial forwarded to the Admiralty by a meeting of the pursers on the 2d April, 1841, in which they stated their grievances, some of which were that many of these officers were from 31 to 36 years in the service, and were none of them under 60 years of age. He then read extracts from the report of the Admiralty Commissioners that had been appointed to in quire into the case of the pursers, by which it appeared that all the recommendations of the commission in favour of those officers were negatived or reduced by the Board of Admiralty. By those reductions and deduc tions it appeared that there was a sum equal to the amount of 4,800!. in the hands of the Admiralty to the credit of those officers, and he hoped the Board of Ad miralty would be prepared to divide this sum equally amongst the pursers.—(Hear, hear.) Sir G. COCKBURN said these pensioners were first put upon half-pay in 1814, and in 1842 he believed there were about 972 of them; 100 of them received 51., 200 45., and 672, 3s. In 1834, the third-class petitioned the Board of Admiralty to reduce the first-class from 9ths to 10ths, and in 1834, by the consent of the first-class, this arrangement was carried into effect ; and the third-class had au addition made to their pay. Shortly afterwards the Naval and Military Commission recommended that 50 of them should be allowed a retirement pension of ss. The Treasury acceded to the proposition of the Naval Commission, that there should be 70 at 75., 100 at 65., and the rest, 350, at 55., thus proposing an increase of Is. 6d. a-day. The number now on the list was 1,000. Captain PECHELL hoped that the case of the pur sers who had had 9,000!. taken from their profits last year, and from whom the Chancellor of the Exchequer received 4,884!. annually, would be reconsidered by the Government. After a few words from Admiral DUNDAS, Sir C. NAPIER said, much anxiety was expressed en the subject, and he was anxious to know when the decision of the Government would be made known. Sir G. COCKBURN said, he could not say, as they had not yet come to a decision. The vote was then agreed to. A vote of 11,608/. was then proposed to the Seaman's Register-office. Sir C. NAPIER objected to the payment of the bounty of 101. to seamen nrwly enlisted. cieamen were in the habit of receiving 104-, but, in the event of a proclama tion of war, the bounty was doubled. Now, no war might take place, yet they were bound to pay this gratuity, whiot entailed great expense on the coun try, and veifich, he thought, might be dispensed with without injury to the servtee. Mr. COLLETT was not satisfied with the explanation of the Honourable Gent'eman. The charge was a very Large one. Mr. CORRY said the expense was owing to the fact, that it was the first year the Bill for Registering Sea men had comr, into operation, Captain PECHELL said that the purs-rs who for ' meHy received an eighth now received only a tenth, by which the Treasury had effected a saving of 4,000/. Should not this sum be refunded to the pursers, and their salary be increased ? Sir ROBERT PEEL said that it, was one of the most unenviable duties of his office to be obliged to resist the claims of particular classes of persons in the army, the navy, and the ordnance. He could not agree with the Hon. and Gallant Officer, and must oppose his views, as if realised they would form a most dangerous precedent. After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the Ex- CHEQUER and Captain Pk?CHELL in reply, the vote was agreed to. )11 7 t- l ic tho salaries o f the scientilic :le pat of the raavy, a convers ation eustwj o between Sir C. Napier, Captain Pechell, and Sir . G. Cockburn, respecting the salaries of the hydrogrp phers, and the want of accommodation for the Greenwich pensioners when they came up to be examined, during which Sir G. Cockburn stated that he was sensible of this want, and an intimation was given that some provision should be made to shelter them from the weather. The sum of 131,0471. was proposed for the expense 01 naval officers at home. After some observations from Sir George Captain Pechell, Sir Charles Napier, and M r • the vote was agreed to. The f. llowing sums were then voted : , 051 22,957/. to defray the expenses of her Majesty sn establishments abroad. 690,6301. to defray the expenses of the artificers, Wi ael employed in the naval est a blishments at home. W sh -41,995/. to defray the e x penses of the naval eats ments abroad. Cockburn, The House then resumed, and the Chairman obtained leave to sit again on Monday next. to• The Banking (Scotland) Bill then went through ° n mittee, and the other orders of tile day having been disposed of, the House adjourned at One o'clock. ROYAL ORTROPCEDIC INSTIT ON. er e‘ The sixth anniversary TI festival of the Royal Orth pcedic Institution for the cure of Club Foot, an, C " t c h i o n Contractions, took place last evening, at the ra don Tavern, Bishopsgate-street. His Royal High ness Duke of Cambridge in the Chair. At six o'clock his Royal Highness (the Prestentf e at the Institution) arrived, and about 200 gentl eal l the down to dinner, consisti ng o f all the delicacies ° Iw o season, which was put oft the table in the usual xee,' „ t i., style of the London tavern. There was a lso a Me" ful supply of wines of th e c hoicest vintage s. bur sherry, bucellas, hock, a n d c hampagne were is $ dance. After the cloth had been withdrawn, and the u 51 161 loyal and national toasts had been drunk,sl h' Lord ABINGER proposed the health e• 1s Highness the Duke of Cambridge, President of *-:bree stitution, which was drunk with three tiates and one cheer more. 'neer sB 2 The Duke of CAMBRI DGE returned sl isius thanks to the company assem bl e d for the er hts a% c ar manner in which they had drunk his heel l Y;;h*ch sidered the institution, th e es t a blishment 0, Le, el l were met to celebrate, as a most interests ,6 age he was most happy in being enahle"l aieersi the chair on the present occasion.—(L° ll 'a e ngag e° The subject of the cure of these diseases M." gap' his attention at the time that he was VicereY " of c ar over. Hitherto there had been only few m efirt h s d bee n iug these deformities ; but this establishment ; i s , TO founded for the pt.rpose of enlarging these Ines4-e.f the s tudio° ~..„001 means of cure had been enlarged by the medical officers of this establishment — ( ol ,l7o / cre ese he had no doubt but that the institution woo' - doe° in prosperity and usefulness. The intelligent g el % laid who was the active medical officer of the institutio_:ions discovered means for the cure of those unhaPPY r e asedi who were labouring under those'cletormities, tbetiotioni of which was the peculiar object of the l i ns ho efite' and upwards of 3,000 unfortunate persons he st itatt by his exertions since the foundation of the le t to "" —(Hear, hear.) But there was much o th o e r i e r Y lke u rs li ine % accomplished, and he trusted that, by that evening, they would greatly extend the 11 A ge o of the Institution.—(Loud cheers.) 'He 1/11- to ° logise for leaving them at that early hour' ne , be he had an appointment elswhere at half after 0' trusted they would excuse him.—(Loud eheer:ilobbs' Glee—" Star of Brunswick," sung by Ale ssr-. Hawkins, conclusion and Hatton. h eis left At the of the glee his Royal Ilig-11.001 the chair, which was t a ken by Lord Abinger, loud cheering. the ortn. The CHAIRMAN, in proposing " Succes s to bees w-f pceiie Institution," said that his attention he° ero bar o drawn to the Institution, from the fact of a Pi thet " his own family having su ffered from see° formity, for the cure of which this Institsooolol4 founded He had been induced, on that 0 00' to apply to Mr. Tamplin, the surgeon of the in rd Ab t who had performed an operation on hi s ( L° 0 fu1, 11 ..,, su cc re e , his ger's) relative %Mal had been complete l y entirely removed the deformity, a nd had re st° . : t ell i - o da r lative to perfect health His Lordship then nun f scribed the operation which had been Per .° h ich -- passed a high eulogium upon Mr. Tamplin, h loudly ch The toasteered by the company. rod ' of the medical officers wa s then returning thanks for which, interesting iNIr.TAat account pLiN t the e o f s tuhreg meanseon te b y t the f this de l; to the discovery of the operation for the cure 0 w oe . _ A mity. The institution had only been irnoneal andf ursi years, and they already enjoyed roya p l r P ei a s t ide d t vor y o e s . pera i that day had the honour of being Ryal Chairman. From this he argue(' r" go.'" . 1 , that n to o the institution, and he could asgurewhat suceeen,. should be wanting on his part to se c-5 h e course of The subscriptions announced during t evening amounted to upwards of L ona direc tion The musical arrangements were under the Mr. Hobbs, and during the course of the 0017081 On popular airs, duets, and glees were sung Hob l ar * style by Master Sullivan and Stevens, and M e36 l . Ftt§il l Hawkitis, and J. L. Hutton. The band 0 ,` ; „, r poP The e sa w es_ce s rria i es n l pl a ,,,, t ep t r e ue n i a d fir a l la n ei o tri e s , b. and y lad i d e u s r w i : s l o w formedGuTa hiinchstihellthicnadtbgesenedsp toff ` ho e a great interest in the proceedings. TO THE MARITI4EINT.Ii Ir°r•o'r. 111 1 BILLS OF HEALTH AT LISBON. , h ,ileff - 0 Extract of a letter reoeivedat Lloyd's :—" Ist ' hal t Officers at Balem have become more ever, putting vessels inpirtiet o ittiOv affair. Masters of vessels should be par li f e In drs f and have their Bills of Health in order, not to of or less hands on board than specifiean t h ,, rt in I t quarantine for them r t , to Pe. Health, and in case of putting into P,"„"e0e5*,....0 Channel, have their bills signed by the r° l. 7forw,te any other Consul of that place, and in case ef 1i,,,,b0w" Consul, by the Justice of the Peace or Cu stom officerq." iL . c , is icitle First vessel from Cincinnatti. The •":" ( f on L . - ,, I si Wells, arrived at Liverpool on the 15th in ". e oei Id a th b e ov f e olr he er m p o l u a t c h e. of cinnatti (Ohio) and New Orleans is the first y 55 5 yai t She he sippt. _,„ , L're) "-•"=—___. „rvgliy..--' iGE.--(Y E ' L '' i Gibraltar....• •••'' a lO Leghorn •••••••'*"....; ": Genoa ''''''''''' .. mwaisssbisu.ilt and loaded 1, Milan ..... ... ..... . ... .-:-.., Venice ..• •••• .. s r Naples ........ ....... ~.: 11!, Palermo, pc , ' oz•" 5x4 Li5b0n........... ••• .. .. ei Oporto.. - ••••• ......... ~ P; Rio Janeiro •"'......• 5, Bahia • ••••••-'" . - Buenos Ayres .... ... 4 4 ~••• •.dYss i t ..'" NevrYotk-- . ( IP Philaell,),;e ..... .._.., to 0 . -, sVIAJ ° 7‘9 1 7 PRJ(94,.,• • 1“11 109. il Foreig-c• , ,..,_ ,0 u °l 0 0 gi Porta6A' '7olu ‘ , . New Poubloone' 0 '! 10 New ');,:lsis ......... 1 4 Silver ''. 1190 ..... COURSE OF EXCHAIs. Amsterdam CF. 12 81 Ditto, at sight l2 6i Rotterdam 2U. 12 9 Antwerp Hamburgh M.B. 14 0 Altona Paris, 3 days' sight 25 90 Ditto, 3 months 26 10 Marseilles Bourdeaux 26 15 Frankfort on Maine 123 Petersburgh, 3Us — Berlin Vienna, effee. fl. 3 M Trieste, ditto Madrid Cadiz Rilbao Bareolona Seville . 10 2 10 3 3611 36 JO ---------------- v - , at 10 °ft [ADVEIZTISEMBNT.]—BOTANIC 1r AT. - A Li d ~.- peg, oG,!EASE.—When the hair is becoming Olt:idle h e f .l. tr, the only effectual remedy, besides sheYtub v ijeci a is t the use of the two above-named artielast .. 111 0 / :0 r'' • - • ernately—the botanic water to cleanse the ere ` o se s r * os n scurf and as a stimulant, and the hear ° tire ( ' ° •;10% v 9urisher. If any further evidence was rei o res° . i d hair, Mr. Catlin's account of the quli nti gortb Ai . 4) 4 the e tues of bear's grease for renovating nut r i ot t o r duced the use of bear's the length of hair obtained b rican Ind' . ians, would be a sufneisnt ale"' f i r gt 1 I f p Sons, 119 and 120, Bishosgate-street, who se d / or countrflte to p 0 fat and kill the anii - ass d tbe r ib ti l 90 1 f , Inds, recommen an , . • Iv 1 , chase none other but with their nauJg.- pool printed on the pot, or the chances are . their ° t o t „ e a to spurious article. All vegetable oils APP" . til ° are worse than useless. .74 ll'ineeYe p n' i ; Spectacles, 39, Albemarle-street, Piccadilly. -- eli sier °- •7 - ap_ectacles, Telescopes, Opera Glasses, ~ r o ot , ;00 c. Patronised by General Sir Vr,°, ~, ow 0 , • 1 Even Lloyd Maiston, F d • k Goodf°"°4oo‘oll2 pt re elle Grosvenor Morrison, Dyott Robertson, Fos, er b , p . Galway, Biggs, Woolf, Murray, Walker , - 'O, VIP pf• Lindsay, and Thackray, Major-GeneralSir n, T arr 0 stone, P. Fyers, D. Macleod, Lletnilit° s i r Ile i ; o h Wemyss, and Cock, Lieutenant.Genera'ssif T P. 2%. 0 , Bouverie, Sir J. Macdonall, Sir 11• nar' gay , P l "' Of and Sir Wm. Eustace Admirals fiord Joh n v o odai i ii 0 . ,10+ gr yins°tlnheisof the... 11050.0: re Cockburn, Sir David 'l4filtie, Sir G e orge ''l r v. v ea George Martin, Sir James H. Whitshed, b lielll g t . 0 1° Ross, Alexander, Curzons Tompkingerl.,_ritcloo jo, Price, Vice-Admiral Sir 'F. Asen, 1'0010: of/ Brown and Ribouleau, &c. Messrs. . orl es " u poa *i pe Opticians, have invented Spectacle Lens w e re 10 . construction —Immediately they a re Phm: 3 .' b a ppai r j , vi° perfect vision, that mist anti dullness wb o tc„. ect bol, 4,1 fore the eves is at once removed, every ir2oerfeet 9 ,4 r doer and distinct, so that the most ag/ 4 , 4 `te its 4, te' becomes bright and brilliant, and is Albrougfrootie a ful, natural, and original state. so 'risible and 036 scopes, Opera Glasses, Microscopes, 1.1, mpg 8 2 ‘ or .o. l ' kinds of Acoustic Instruments, fondlicceolionos, f r pe deafness. Caution—Messrs. Be „%pers° ll ; ,, ° • Pi clans, are not in any way connected wit" j, nor i n ai , name, in their immediate neighbc-Trhoo , e ca a et , ...tree u ~.strt part of the country. To prevent at tborasi.e. and Observe, —Only to be had at 9, it r i _---- Piccadilly, opposite the York Hotel. ___--- V . •aaraes,,r.amocr.mraern... _. roo ks, On the 16th inst., at CI 13 PITH'S. a ilogg r ' a son. XenrY c , let, On the 9th inst., at Paria, the lady of T o lid ol ' of a son. Drs. 4 On the 10th inst., at Wilton--crescont, ifif tr .. th° of a sea. 0. /306 00. , On the 13th inst., at the Parsooao, the Rev. Edward Miller, of a SOP • Phaid-00111111011, D i r e. d vs, (~ 4f • ".• Bishe fa te, , On the 15th in3tat St Botol Joil' Orgill, of Newinan•street,'Osford-hstreet, wick, of Bread-street-buil:Nilo, City- terrace, a nth e lsl s i u n i g i t n e s n t .. , f 11ff 11. ° O On the 3d inst., Mary, the Wire of G. 1 0 C lgiow natb, ) 11.8 * Wood, aged 91. at Pierrapont-phte4, Pe : co , ues6''rif Louden: Printed and euhliall J by ta gf i f. Nc. 112, strand. Printer, :t The Staa l:00,01 Strand, in tP, ' preset of the Wei, IP - Mx) Saturday, May 11, 1545.