The Sun. — London, England, 1839-07-19 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION. tioners in S• : , ',l r. 1831, after events had changed the ra'igning fare , . ' i'raace, were requested to leave their convent. Has in,. r, fused to do so they were expell.'d by force, And he believed took up their abode (as we understood the i Noble Lord) in the South of Cornwall. A great deal of f correspondence had taken place respecting them, and a ' question upon their case had been referred to Sir Herbert Jenner,wh o was ofopinion that there was no ground whatever i to authorise the English Government to demand compcnsa- Nation for them from the French Government. He did not know that there would be any objection to a production of extracts of the d o cum e nt s . Th e w h o l e o f t h e de l`spatchea were extremely voluminous, and it might not be expedient to make public certain parts of them. He really could not think that any good purpose could be an• sweied by their production, but he hoped his Noble Friend would be content with extracts. CHARTISTS. Lord BRO LTG El A M rose to present a petition to their Lordships to which he had to solicit their Lordships' ) best attention, because it involved conduct the most i shameful he had ever heard of, and the most ! d iscreditable to any Government he ever knew. Having ; been one who had always contended for the Irights of the people, when they remonstrated against the act s o f a G overnmen t, h e d ee med it t o b e t h e more labsolutely his indispensable duty to state what h© thought to be the very worst course which men could take, with a view to obtain their own purposes, when that course involved the safety of the public peace. He had two petitions in his hand : the first did not so i mmediately refer to the object as the second. The first Was the petition of William Lovett, of North-place, Gray's Inn:road, and John Collins, of Birmingham. [The Noble and Learned Lord stated parts of the petition, for which see oue report of the proceedings of of th e House of Commons of this day.] If Sir F. Bur dett, who in the same county was, within the Noble and Learned Lord's recollection, prosecuted, tried, and con victed of the same offence, viz. of publishing a libel in that county—if he had been incarcerated by warrant of the Birmingham Justices, and carried to Warwick gaol, the treatment which the petitioners had un dergone, must of course have been the lot of of Sir F. Burdett.--(" Hear, hear," from Lord Lynd hurst.) He did not believe the statements in the petition whe n he first real them, but the most respectable person who had applied to him to present the petition had made the most vigorous inquiries on the subject—subjected the Parties to the most scrutinising investigation--and he (the Noble Lord) A ould pledge himself to the accuracy of this most extraordinary proceeding. Among other indignities they were script a s econ d t i me in the presence of eight persons, onic of them in a most filthy state, compelled to wash in the same cistern of water as those men did, and to use the tae tow e l. A common f e l on was then ordered to crop off f eir hair'—( Hear, hear, from Lord Ly n dh urs t, an d a l aug h ,rom som e on t h e oppos i te b enc h es.) The Noble and 1, -arned Lord was extremely mortified to perceive that such a statement as this should produce, in any part of the House, tokens of merriment. lie deemed it to be the most dis graceful conduct he had ever known ; and he was ashamed itbelong to such a House as that, in which a statement of would excite a smile.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) He really was ashamed to belong to any place where any set of r n e e,ti were, wh o cou ld h ear a d eta il of such indignities u ttered to their fellow-subjects, and who could consi. der such detail a source of merriment. It could 2,, n 1Y, however, b e w i t h a very f ew o f t h e i r L or d s hi ps. mhe petition ers state d that t h e i r s hi rts were taken f rom em, and mar k e d with the i nitials of the i r names, the that th ey were put i n a war d i n w hi ch one of e priaoners was infested with the itch, and that for nine days they were confined in the gaol of . N yttravick. T hat they were brought into the yard to answer meir names, and they were examined by the doctors t o le e if they had taken the itch. The petitioners also Stated that they were limited to the common gaol 4 "°wance, and no one was allowed to supply them With any addition. Their allowance was a small loaf two Sorge oatmeal, arid at dinner they had about 4 ,.0 ounces of cheese. In addition to the common gaol allowance they were allowed to spend threepence a day on butter, eggs, and b acon , b u t th ey were not a ll owe d any fi re to , coots them, and were obliged t o ea t th em raw ; t h at d uring eight ut of the twenty-four hours th e y were l oc k e d ul t ? in a cell, and they were compelled, under the pain theolitary confinement, to make their own beds, and to roll ~ in up in 30 c om p act a f orm as tota ll y to exc l ude the air, the result of which was that when they were unrolled the a i nt??l , l was most offensive. In addition to this, they were pro . 7 .ed from seeing any person but the gaoler, except at cer ,' in hours ; their watches, money, and everything was taken ("Gin them, and they were not allowed to use either knife or they No books were allowed them, nor pens or paper, and . were not allowed to read any letters that were addressed of ! them, until t h ey b a d b een previously read by some officer .. .the gao l . In making these statements, the petitioners did not complain of th e p ersona l con d uct of the Governor, and • , in conclusion, they prayed the House to take their ease int o cons id eration. The result, therefore, was, that t he petitioners were detained eleven days, upon the ground that they had not offered sufficient bail, although they had urged that it was difficult for men in their situation to find it. Bail, however, was tendered, but it was refused without any inquiry being made as to its sufficiency, and when Made it was found perfectly sufficient. Why was not that sufficiency inquired into during those eleven day;?—( Hear. ) If any one thing was more clear than another, it was this, that if a man was charged with a felony —not a political o ffence—nay, with murder itself, no person had any right w hatever, according to the principle of law in any civilised ccn ntrY, to do more in detaining him than that which was absolutely necessary for his safe custody. The Lord Chief et ,Ine was in the House, and if' it was wrong, he would to " in ' right ; but here were men imprisoned, and exposed • every indignity, not allowed to spend their own money I.,nagetting the necessaries of life, when it did not appear `6' r t they were to be put upon their trial, or even that a and Jury would find a true bill against them. He sa w much worse—much stronger language in the tC l 'spapers ev er y d ay , yet t h e Attorney-General, or any su e r offi cer , never thoug h t of prosecuting them. Would Such treatment be likely to m a k e p ersons f a ll i n l ove w i t h Qe administration of justice, to make them more peace. able and quiet subjects ? He thought not. The men who had b een treated with such indignity would feel themselves more or less degraded men during the whole course of their li ves. It was in the nature of things that where those who had shown so much vigour in executing the law in su c h a case it was perfectly consistent, that they Should be supine under other circumstances, and when their interference might have saved bloodshed and rapine. He had generally found that those who were excessively anxious to enforce the law, or even to overstep it when there was no danger, were the most timid and supine in cases of emergency. He had another petition connected with the same subject to pre sent. It was from the Chairman of the Working Men's Association of London, complaining of the conduct of the same Magistrates in dispersing a meeting which hid been held in the Bull-ring two days previously. a lt was most likely that the Magistrates who had ueen so zealous in the discharge of their duty, when li tt l e was to be apprehended, would be pine when they ought to have been more vigorous in the dis c h arge of their duty.—( Hear, hear.) It was the bounden duty o f a ll th ose w h o were anx i ous to ex tend the franchise by every means in their power, and o n every fittin g occas i on , t o ex p ress t h e i r d ec id e d TPinion and reprehension of all acts tending, in whatever gree, to a b reac h o f th e p u bli c peace.— ( H ear, h ear.) here was no enemy to the rights of th e p eo pl e more pe rilous ...... no more fatal enemy than those men who I ti , r ,Re e d the p eop l e on to b reac h es of the peace, in t l i tn h Perils and guilty operations those very men were not "'selves f oun d to be engaged. They shrunk from the danger into which their own machina'ions had driven others. T e . -se men o f tent i mes, w i t h t h e i r pens i n the press, and wihth their tongues at public meetings, and by other ni.entrivances, led the people to s e di t i on an d rebel r',". and are not f oun d at w h at i s ca ll e d t h e i r tl er , a ph rase w hi c h they are so fond of ~- * Pg• They are found skulking while they allow their 'ulaes to be the victims of their crimes. He held these 41e n in utter contempt and scorn, as he looked upon their c.oanduct with abhorrence, and he hoped and trusted I)l.h_ t the lesson which had been lately given to some their poor deluded dupes and victims, would teach them sle w they would again pin their faith upon such men's %r ee ves. One word more respecting the consequences that ere likely to ensue. One single act, such as had lige a arace u the town of Birmingham was sufficient to put hatak the cause of Reform for a long period, if these men really had it at heart, and not mischief which be very much be:ieved. It was more calculated to stay the im provement asf tee people of that country than any acts of °Ppression whiesh the Government and Parliament in these ti mes were likely !o be suffered to permit. He recollected a sayin g of a Venerable and Gallant Friend of his, now ti ° more, Lord St. Vincent, than whom no man was more distinguished. That Nobleman said that there was no error more fatal than when the authorities, from misplaced humanity, which he often called timidity, abstained from taking vigorous and instant measures to Put down mischief and preserve the public Peace. It was true humanity to be vigorous in sea !cm, and it was cruelty to the victims themselves to, thr eaten when the Magistrates were called upon to act. Ile believed that no man who knew anything of the Ma gistrates who were concerned in the late proceedings at Birmingham, and he ( Lord B.) knew one of them per sonally and the others by character, that nothing could be attributed to them, but an error of judgment, and however amiable that lenity might be in private life, when a man took upon himself the office of a Magistrate, he must brace up his nerves with vigour. He hoped that any in quiry into the conduct of those gentlemen would lead to an entire acquittal of even the venial offence of the want of firmness, and as he understood that inquiry was about to be proceeded with, he would say nothing more about it. The E ar l o f WARWICK felt b oun d to soy a few words to their Lordships. It would appear from the insinuations thro wn out as if he bad not done his duty in his official sit uation, an d g i ven that support to her Majesty's Govern 'tient which he ought. He felt perfectly satisfied that he need not appeal to any Noble Lord in vi n di cation cf his c haract er upon that po i nt. The Noble Viscount now at the head of her Majesty's Government was aware that When he held the office of Home Secretary, he (the Earl c)f Warwi c k) h a d commun i ca ted to him everythi ng con _ ne eted with the town of Birmingham. So far as his public i'ituation was concerned, he had never allowed his private `With to interfere with his duty to the Government. glad regard to the late unfortunat.e occurrences, he was ts ",ao to find that some investigation was about to take i c il,, d ee, and he hoped it would be satisfactory. He 13, 1 1 " not therefore wish to allude to the matter, Ni t if his information was true, there were no welfistrates present during these riots. They all knew ti th at there was blame somewhere, and the only ques. I,,'''' Was wh ere t h e blame lay. He (the E ar l o f W.) h a d 1, n censured far saying that these occurrences were a e li n ci g time brewing. and he had also been censured for tu he fault w i t h the Government for appointing persons wi ne Magistracy r.ho were so closed connected with these ki.r „: t eal unions, and some of whom were seen walking 4 le arm with the very persons who, an hour afterwards, he slim gaol. Th e M ember for Birmi n gham denied that wh at an agitat or, b ut b e (ihe Earl of W.) did not know last ...t agitation was if he had not been agitating for the nine or ten years. When he had been found fault with "sea,— for stating that her Majesty's Government htei eerie tioned these political unions, he thought the Neh Lord must have misunderstood him. ( Ilsar, hear ) With respect to the appointment of Magistrates, 10 of the old ones were retained out of 22, being four of one party and six of the other; to which were added no less than 13, all of one description, so that the numbers were now 19 to 4. And this was called a fair distribution.— ( Hear.) He should move that a return of the Magis trates appointed since the Municipal Act was passed be laid on the table. Lord MELBOURNE wished to say a few words on the subject of this petition, and on the matters stated by the Noble Lord who had just addressed the House. It must he evident that with respect to the petition it must be impossible for him to contradict, deny, or give a n y ex planation whatever.—( H ear, hear, hear.) It was a petition on the part of two individuals committed in de fault of bail on a charge of libel; and they complainedof what appeared to be exceedingly hard treatment. Whether the Magistrates demanded too large a sum, or did not use due diligence, or kept these persons too long in confinement, were matters for the Magistrates to answer, and it was not too much to ask of the House a little calmness and delibe ration, and that they would not at once pronounce an opinion when they had heard only one side of the care. He did not know whether the treatment complained of was ac cording to the regulations of the gaol or not. It certainly seemed to be very hard, and the regulations of the gaols appeared to border somewhat upon injustice. It should be recollected that the object of legislation in this respect of late years had been to equalize the law ; but whether these measures bad not been pushed to the extent of in justice was quite another matter, which deserved serious consideration. He could only say that this matter would be inquired into—thatif grievances had been suffered all the remedy which was possible would be applied, and all the re. dress which was practicable would be afforded. The Noble Lord who had just sat down had commenced his statement by a vindication of his conduct as Lord Lieutenant of the county of Warwick. So far as he (Lord Melbourne) had inquired into his conduct as Lord Lieutenant, he had no reason to speak otherwise than with praise and approbation. The Noble and Learned Lord seemed to countenance the opinion expressed on a former occasion, that there had been a want of attention to their duty on the part of the Magistrates, and that they had been guilty of negligence and inactivity. Without going into the subject generally, he considered it his duty to read to their Lordships a state ment which had been made to the Government by the Mayor of Birmingham, and which had this morning been received by the Secretary of State. The Noble Lord then road the letter, which was dated Wednesday evening, eleven o'clock, and which was of considerable length. It stated that the Magistrates, after several days of quiet, and thinking that Monday was a day on which the town might require some protection, sat till five o'clock at the public office, to consult as to the means of defence in the case of an out-break. They received at their sitting only two reports, one stating that a meeting was to be held at noon, at Holloway Head, and the other that the mob in tended to arm themselves at night, but these reports came before them under very vague circumstances. At five o'clock the Magistrates adjourned, leaving word at the public office that if there should be the slightest appear mice of disturbance they were to be sent for immediately. At seven one of the Magistrates was at the public office, but found all tranquil, and went home at half-past seven. A gentleman saw the course of the meeting at Holloway Head, and observed seve ra l t o move towards the centre of the town. He arrived at the Bull-ring at eight o'clock, and at a quarter-past eight there was not the slightest symptom of disturbance. About half-past eight the Bull ring began to fill, and a body of men, women, and lads, appeared at the lower part, having come from a place at which they expected t meet two delegates who were to have been released from War wick gaol. On their arrival, the attack was begun on the shop of Mr. Bourne, whose windows were broken. In the meantime the Chief of the Police started off for the house of Dr. Booth, who immediately drove to the resi dence of the Mayor, where he arrived at nine, and they together went to the barracks, and about 20 minutes be fore 10, a considerable number of the military were in the Bull-ring. Before that time many other Magistrates were on the spot. The house of Mr. Bourne and another house was found in flames, but by 12 o'clock the fire was mainly overcome. A question had been raised why it was not in the power of the police force to put down the dis turbance at the outset, and the general opinion was that it might have been done; but Superintendent May had stated that they were not to act without the orders of the Magistrates. lie (the Mayor) did not recollect having sanc tioned any such instructions, but if there were any such they must have been conditional on the number and force of the mob, so as to prevent needless injury to the police and the fatal effects of a repulse. The inferences to be drawn from this statement was, that the Ma g istrates had b e en d u l y i n attendance on Mond a y, an d on the other days since the commencement of the disturbances, and that they went away only when satisfied that there was no ground of fear that the peace of the town would be disturbed, and that no riot could be anticipated. In conclusion, the letter stated that although every outrage bad been suppressed, it had been done without loss of life, and was signed " William Scholefield, Mayor." It was the intention of the Govern. ment to institute an inquiry into the conduct of the ;Magis trates upon this occasion. At the same time, their Lord ships m ould upon this as on other occasions consider the difficult and delicate situation in which the Government and the Magistrates were placed on occasions of this sort. If they were a moment too quick, as they had been accused in the first instance of being—if there was any doubt with respect to their conduct, they would be condemned for haste and rashness.—( Hear, hear, hear.) It was for their Lordships, as far as they could, to support those who were in authority, and not to bo seeking by every means to weaken and embarrass them ; not to look at such a question in a political point of view—not to con sider it with reference to what the conduct of former Ma gistrates had been, but to remember that the peace and safety of the country were committed to their hands, and that whether they should discharge their trust well and effectually, must greatly if not entirely depend on the sup port they received from the Government and from Parlia ment.—(Cheers.) The Duke of WELLINGTON said the Noble Viscount had been so full of his eulogy of the conduct of the Magistrates—of his deprecation on the part of their Lordships of any blame of the conduct of the Mayor and Magistrates of Birmingham, and of his gratifi cation in having seized the exact opportune mo ment for interference, that he had entirely neg lected to allude to the reason of the ignorance of the state of Birmingham in which his Noble Friend the Lord Lieutenant of that county had been kept. Her Majesty's Ministers had last year thought proper to make Birming ham an incorporated town, and that being so, the appoint ment of its Magistrates rested entirely with her Majesty according to the Act of Parliament, no one interfering with her Majesty in that appointment except the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack ; yet in defiance of that Act of Parliament her Majesty's present Ministers had taken upon themselves to appoint those Magistrates, and for their conduct they must be responsible. He was not surprised that the Noble Viscount should be so exceedingly anxious that the House should not pro nounce any opinion upon the proceedings of the Magistrates, inasmuch as their conduct was to be inquired into. When this subject was discussed on the former occasion, the Noble Viscount hesitated not to in sinuate that it might be the fault of the troops that this riot was allowed to be proceeded in ; and to support that insinuation the Noble Viscount instanced the conduct of yeomanry who had forborne to act some years ago, when the castle at Nottingham was burnt, although the troops on that occasion obeyed the law by refraining to act until they were ordered to do so by a Magistrate. The Mayor from his account bad stated that there had been no reason to apprehend a riot. Now he (the Noble Duke) had heard that a person had gone through the town in the middle of the day ringing a bell—(Hear, hear.)—guarded by 12 men with bludgeons, and in the vicinity of this very public office also, giving notice of the intention to assemble on that very day —( Hear, hear.) Under these circum stances he thought it would be difficult to say how the Mayer could be free from blame. But there was one other thing that he must notice—the Town Clerk of the Magistrates, who everybody knew was the officer of this very Bench of Justices, was present to defend, upon that very night, one of the parties who had been taken up charged with being concerned in this riot.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped a proper inquiry would be imme diately instituted, and that the House would be immedi ately acquainted with the result. The Earl of WARWICK said that he had had four or five statements from Birmingham which, in reference to the presence of the Magistrates, was diametrically contrary to toe account given by the Mayor. The bellman went round giving notice that the meeting would take place in the evening. Notes were sent to the Ma fistrates, but no Magistrates were on the sp o t. O ne . pecial constable saw a Magistrate, and told him that if he, the Magistrate, would give him authority, he would himself head the police, and interfere to disperse the mob; but that Magistrate told him that strict orders had been given that the police should on no account interfere, un less by the order of two Magistrates. He hoped with the Noble Duke, that at the earliest opportunity a full inquiry into the circumstances would take place. Lord L YND HURST could not allow the present op portunity to pass without making a few observations. He did not think it right to enter into any detail with respect to the conduct of the Magistrates. They were upon their trial—( Hear)—and therefore he should not think it fair to enter into that part of the subject. But he must say, with reference to what he had heard and seen, that he thought her Majesty's Ministers highly responsible for the transactions which had taken place.—( Hear, hear.) Let him call back the recollection of their Lordship s to what had taken place in the months of September and October last—to the Chartist meetings that were held in every part of the country, of which no notice, or at least no unfavourable notice, had been taken by her Ma jesty's Government. Upon these occasions great multi tudes assembled, and the most inflammatory and seditious language was used—the parties there publicly threate n i ng to make u se o f p h ys i ca l f orce , for the redress of wh a t t h ey were pleased to call their grievances. —(Cheers.) The whole society of this great city was astonished at the supineness of her Majesty's Minivers.—(Loud cheers.) But there was a circumstance which occurred at that time that excited still further astonishment, because at the very period when those meetings were held day after day, and parti cu l ar l y i n t h e nort h ern part o f t h is island, one of her Majesty's Cabinet Ministers, he who presided over the domesti c transactions of this country, at a public meeting held at Liverpool, made a speech, which he muit say in its scope and tendency was calculated to give encourage ment to those meetings.—( Hear, hear, hear.) If at a public meeting, such as he had described, a Minister of the Crown had thought proper to advert to to those proceed ings, it ought t o h ave been his duty to have adverted to them in strong terms of condemnation. —( Much cheering. ) Instead of that, those who adverted to the language of that noble individual at that time, must agree witChim, that the whole scope of his speech was such as tO give encourageme n t te th e ac t ors. He did not say that the speech of the Noble Lord, to whore he had alluded, if made in times , of calm ness and of peace, should not be considered as tree from blame ; but when the Noble Vis count had said in the course of the discussion of this even- THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, JULY 19, 1839 ing, that every thing depended upon the circumstances under which a publicatian was made, or e speech deliverad, he would call their Lordships' attention to the speech of the Noble Lord, and then he would ask them whether that speech was not calculated to encourage and to incite the people to inflammatory proceedings ! He held in his hand an extract from a speech of the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Home Department at a public meeting in Liverpool, at a time when there were Chartist meetings holding daily around him :—" He could not in such a party wander into the field of politics but there was one topic connected with his own department"— Mark that—his department ; the duty of which was to preside over and preserve the domestic peace of the coun try—" on which he might be allowed to dwell a few mi not-s. He alluded to the public meetings which were now in the course of being held in every part of the country." He alluded, therefore, directly and distinctly to them. " There were some who might think they ought to be put down, but such was not his opinion nor that of the Go vernment with which he acted." "He thought that the people had a right to free discussion." Of whom was he speaking ? Of the men who advocated physical force, and who used language the most inflammatory. Was that the idea of free discussion entertained by the Minister of the Crown ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) "It was free discussion that elicited truth."—( Dear, hear.) " He thought they had a right to meet, and if they had grievances they had a right to declare them, that they might be known and redressed." He asked whether a Minister of the Crown at a public meeting was justified in making these statements with regard to persons who, be it remembered, were in the habit of even meeting at night, and whether they were not calculated to produce the most disastrous results ? The Noble Viscount deplored the evil, and said he foresaw the result, and so far he (Lord Lynd hurst) coincided with the Noble Viscount, and he agreed with him also in being surprised that these results had not occurred sooner. It was said that in the then state of the law and of public feeling it would not be judicious to put down these meetings by force. He admitted that; but should not the Government have abstained from giving them any direct encouragement? Instead of that, they had selected for office persons who were deeply impli cated in these transactions.—( Hoar, hear.) Among them was a person of considerable talents, a member of the Political Union, of the Chartists' body, and who had been sent to the meeting of the Delegates in the Con. vention at London, one of the co-trustees for the manage. ment of the funds of that Convention, and a Delegate to Scotland, and who had stated, according to one of his own colleagues, " that as for moral force, it was all a farce ; they must come prepared, and he would advise the people to be provided with rifles."—( Hear, hear.) Such was the man selected for the high office of Magistrate, and when the Government had selected him, it must be supposed that they were pleased with the kind of agitation that was going on. Their Lordships could not forget the procla mation made in 1831 or 1832, by the present Government, in which it was declared that these unions were illegal and unconstitutional, and the King's subjects were cautioned to refrain from joining them. Now it would appear, that the advocates of these violent measures, were to be en couraged and rewarded, and their Lordships had seen the necessary results.—( Hear, hear.) He would say little of the transactions of the last few days. No doubt there was a sufficient military and police force assembled. Ample notice had been given, and it could not be supposed that her Majesty's Government would be so supine and inactive as not to have collected a sufficient force. Without enter ing into details, it was quite certain that there was a sufficient force to preserve the peace of the town, and repel any outrage. But it would appear that the people began to assemble at seven o'clock, and it was not till a quarter before ten that any force was collected to repel them. It was clear then, that the persons whose duty it was to attend to the peace of the town, had been guilty of a gross dere liction of duty--and that there was neglect and supine ness on the pert of the governing authority. Such had been the result of giving encouragement to persons whom it was the duty of the Government to repress and to restrain. The Marquis of L A NSDOWNE complained of a dis cussion having been got up upon a matter which was about to be the subject of investigation in another form. The Noble and Learned Lord had himself admitted the impro priety of discussing the subject. He complained of the unfair deductions that had been made front the speech of the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Home Department. Ceetain extracts only had been read, and then an attempt was made to affix to them a meaning they did not bear, and which he would take upon himself to aver was not their real meaning. It would appear from the Noble and Learned Lord's statement that free discus sion was not to be encouraged or sanctioned by that House.—( Hear, hear.) lie hoped however it would be always the maxim and the prevailing custom in that coun try that there should be free, fair, and public discussion, and no man did his duty or was fit to hold office who did not recognise the fitness, the propriety, the justice, and the constitutionality of free discussion. The t Noble • and Learned Lord had appeared to insinuate that the speech of his Noble Friend was calculated to bring about these un happy results,'but that speech had been explained again and again, and it was shown that it bad not the slightest connection with these disturbances or meetings, although the Noble and Learned Lord, with his usual astuteness and ingenuity had endeavoured to connect them. He found the following explanation of the Noble Lord's ob servations, which he would take the liberty of reading to their Lordships:—" My opinion is, that whatever be the number of persons assembled together—however large the meeting—yet if they really met for nothing more than discussion"—Was that the case of the Chartists in Bir mingham?—( Hea , hear.) Did that recognise or let in the principle of brute violence which had been unhappily avowed by these men?--" no attempt should be made to check the expression of public opinion." He then went on to say that that was more particularly the case with re gard to the Poor-laws, with reference to which many of these meetings had been held. Did the Noble and Learned Lord object to that?—( Hear, hear.) And yet the No ble and Learned Lord, without the slightest allusion to the explanation, had attempted to use these extracts at a moment of excitement. Ilia Noble Friend bad added that he thought it was not too much to ask that those who took advantage of the liberty (namely the liberty of freedom of discussion, which had so long existed in that country, should not abuse it by exciting others to a violation of the law, and the :injury of those employed in their execution. Was it meant to be said that that gave a countenance to Chartist agitation and brute force?—( Hear)—and yet such was its meaning, according to the gloss which the Noble and Learned Lord meant to put upon it. With regard to the exact point at which it might be proper for her Majesty's Government to interfere, short of actual outrage (with re spect to which there could be no doubt) it must be left to the sound discretion of the Government and the Parlia ment.—( Hear, hear.) The result of the late meeting of the delegates of that body in London was a satisfactory proof that the Government had acted with a proper discre tion; and they had been unable, with all their arts. to af fect the sound . feelings and poison the minds of the people of the metropolis—who bad repudiated their offers, and had preferred the tranquillity and good order upon which their comforts and happiness so much depended. If the No ble and Learned Lord had seen any statement or report of his Noble Friend, the Secretary of State for the Home De partment, giving encouragement to resistance to the laws of the land, it was his duty to have made a direct and sub stantive charge against his Noble Friend at the very first meeting of Parliament—( Hear, hear)--and if he did not bring it forward himself, it had been made the subject of decision in another place, and his Noble Friend's explana tion had been deemed perfectly satisfactory.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the conferring of a charter upon the town of Birmingham, it had been done after a very de tailed inquiry, instituted by order of the Committee of the Privy Council, and after it had been ascertained that the great majority of the inhabitants were in favour of it. The Noble Duke stated that the Act of Parliament had been violated by his Noble Friend the Secretary of State, who appointed the Magistrates upon the recommendation of the Town- Council ; and that his Noble Ft iend had always acted upon such recommendations. It was no such thing. His Noble Friend did not always act upon such recommendations. The Noble Lord was not bound to consult the Lord Lieutenant of the county, though no doubt his opinion, if offered, would have been treated with great attention. But his Noble Friend did as he ought to do—called for the opinions of persons of authority in the neighbourhood respecting the characters and qualifications of the persons whom they required to be appointed Magis trates.—( Hear.) So far, however, from taking the opi nions of Town Councils, he knew a case in which his Noble Friend had rejected the opinions of a Town Council, and had appointed Magistrates on his own personal responsibility.—( Hear.) There was another point which he wished to advert to. The Noble Lord the Lord Lieutenant for Warwickshire had expressed a doubt that the Magistrates of the county were exc l u d e d f rom acting in the district of Birmingham, by the charter of the town. He (Lord L ) thought the county Magistrates were not excluded except in rate•paying cases, but their juriss diction still existed in criminal cases, and a connection still existed between the municipal Magistrates and the Lord Lieutenant of the county. For example, when the local Magistrates had occasion to call upon persons to act as special constables, they were obliged to communicate with the Lord Lieutenant of the county.—( Hear, hear.) He (the Noble Marquis) had received several communications within the last few weeks, on the occasion of Magistrates of towns appointing constables, in the apprehension of a disturbance. The recommendation of persons to be Mae gistrates did not now pass through the Lord Lieutenant alone, it passed through other persons, and then the Secre tary of State appointed them on his own responsibility. The Duke of WELLINGTON referred to the debate which took place on the proposition of the Birmingham charter. There Lord John Russell was to be found stating he had no hesitation in saying as long es lee and his colleagues should have the honour o f act i ng under the Crown, they should consider it the best mode of selecting Magistrates to request the Town Council to send the Go vernment a list of those in whom they thought confidence ought to be placed.—( Hear, hear.) The Lord Lieutenant of the county of Warwick, had not been called on this oc casion. Her Majesty's Ministers alone were responsible for the Birmingham Magistrates.—( Hear, hear.) Lord MELBOURNE said he thought the Lord Lieu tenant of the county should not, necessarily, have been communicated with in this instance—when he heard of a disturbance in his county, lie should have gone there..— ( Hear, hear.) The Earl of RIPON contended that the Lord Lieute nant of the county should have been informed by the Ma gistrates of Birmingham of what took place in that town. If they did not inform him of the apprehensions and dan gers of the town, they, not he, were responsible.—( Hear.) Respecting the charter of Birmingham, he would re mind their Lordships that the discussion which took place in that House upon it, originated with him. Those who opposed the granting of the charter, stated that they who called for it were but a small number of the rate-payers, and paid but a trifle in the aggregate, and yet if the charter were granted the new Corporation might nit them all. They presented a petition through him to that effect, which also stated, that on grounds Connected with the administration of justice and the public peace, the Privy Council should refuse the charter. The applicants for the charter meanwhile urged their claims. He (the Noble Earl) then succeeded in prevailing upon his Noble Friend the President of the Council to promise that the Charter s hould not br granted until the opponents to it were:hcard Noble Friend then sent a person down to Birmingham to inquire into facts, and he then thought that he (the Noble Earl) should interfere no further with the exercise of the prerogative of the Crown. But having seen a portion of the result of the inquiry, he was astonished beyond measure to hear his Noble Friend say that there was so clear a preponderance in favuly of the Charter, that her Majesty's Government felt bound to grant it.--( Hear, hear.) In the first place, they were not bound to grant it. But the decision was a most unfortu nate one, and he feared it would very much interfere with the tranquillity and welfare of the town.—( Hear, hear.) The Duke of WE LLINGTO Nthought the Noble Vis count opposite should not have thrown out the insinuation against his Noble Friend the Lord-Lieutenant of Warwick shire, thathe should have gone down to his county whetherhis services were required by the Government or not. Now he hoped that what he had to say would not again ex cite the Viscount into a towering passion.—(Loud laugh ter.) His Noble Friend was ready to do his duty in Birmingham or in any other part of the county of Warwick where his services were required. But consi dering the state of the Magistracy he thought he was right in keeping at a distance until he was called on to act. —( Hear, hear. ) The LORD CHANCE LLOR remembered distinctly when the petition was prevented against granting the charter to Birmingham. A gentleman was sent down to examine the comparative numbers of thi parties and other circumstances. He found that a large number of those signatures which had been attached to the petition against the charter were fictitious, and no such persons were to be found. The gentleman was sent down again to examine more accurately. He first inquired into the names and circumstances of those who had applied for the char ter, and he found them to be as they had re presented. On inquiring for those who had signed the petition against the charter, he found whole streets of fictitious signatures, and when he called upon the principal petitioners for a minute explanation, they de clined it.—( Hear, hear.) Thus the Government had no other conclusion to come to than that there was a clear preponderance in favour of the charter, and it was there fore granted. The Earl of RIPON was quite sure a Peer of the realm would not have been so imposed upon by those with whom he had had the honour of communicating as to be made the medium of presenting a petition signed to a great extent by fictitious petitioners. Lord DENMAN respectfully suggested to their Lord ships that it was dangerous, as well as useless and prema ture, to enter on a discussion upon a subject which was immediately to come before a judicial tribunal. It could have no other effect than to send men with preconceived opinions to an investigation to which they ought t o come wholly unbiased. H now begged leave to correct an erroneous opinion which had been expressed re specting the obligations of the county Magistrates, and whether they had not a concurrent jurisdiction with the town Magistrates. He thought that when the Crown appointed a municipal bench of Magistrates under a char ter, the jurisdiction of the county magistrates was at an end._( Hear, hear.) If they bad a concurrent jurisdic tion they might be placed under a serious responsibility for acting without being called upon, or for refusing to act when called upon. The county Magistrates were in no way answerable to the Crown on this occasion. The entire responsibility rested upon those Magistrates who took upon themselves to keep the peace of the tovvv, and to answer for it whenever their conduct should be called in question. It was deplorable that these doubts and hesitations should have taken place at a time of imminent danger, and it was most assuredly the duty of the Magistrates and all her Ma jesty's subjects, to act on emergencies of this kind. The LORD CHANCELLOR explained that the ap plications for the charter sit Birmingham and Manchester were made at the same time, and he might have con founded one with the other. Lord BR.OUG AMI - ep - lied. The parties in this case had proceeded on a supposition as erroneous in point of law as any man could imagine. They seemed to think that, without the presence of a Magistrate a policeman could not act, and also that one Justice of the Peace could not act without the Mayor, and therefore they waited until he was sent for. Ile ;greed in the remarks which had been made on the improper appointment of one of the Ma gistrates. If he had the habits and associations which had been mentioned, and had held the language attributed to him at Perth respecting physical force, he should no more have thought the peace of the town safe than if it had been in the charge of a lunatic.--( Hear, hear.) It was probable that the individual might do his duty, but tke effect of such an appointment on the people ought to be considered,—( Hear. ) The Earl of WARWICK then moved for a return of the Magistrates appointed for the county of Warwick. He complained of not having been informed of what was going on, and said that if he had had an intimation of it he would have gone down. Lord MELBOURNE said, when the Secretary of State received information that the peace of a county was disturbed, it was not unusual for him to inform the Lord Lieutenant. But there had been disturbances in Birming ham for sixteen days, and the Noble Earl could not say that the peace of Birmingham had nothing to do with the peace of the county. _ BEER BILL. Lord BROUGHANI, on the suggestion of Lord Clarendon, postponed his Beer Bill until Monday next. ELECTORS REMOVAL BILL. Lord CLARENDON moved the second reading to the Electors Removal Bill. He hoped this would net be viewed as a parts question, because it affected all voters alike, and a s it was the second time the Bill had been sent from the House of Commons, he trusted their Lordships would give it a second reading. Lord REDESDA LE said he felt perfectly disposed to view this Bill, as regarded politics, in the man ner in which the Noble Lord had done, but he must say that a more wretched piec e of legislation he bad never seen. He had three objections to the Bill. The first was, that it enacted that which was contrary to the principles of the Reform Bill, which was now the basis of the representation of the country in the House of Commons. Secondly, it clearly enacted that which was contrary to all ancient law, both theoretical and practical, with regard to the right of franchiLso from the earliest period of time; and thirdly, it was i mpossible so to amend the Bill in Committee as to be able to remove the two former objection s to it. He certainly thought that legislation was v ery much required on tbe subject of the registration, and therefore he trusted the atten tion of her Majesty's Government would be so direc ted to it, as that, by an early pc tiod of next Session, they would be p repare d to i ntro d uce a measure to remedy its existing defects. He. would say as an additional reason for his opposing the siccc,nd reading of this Bill, he thought if such a Bill as this were to be passed, it would throw an impediment is the way of any sound remedy for the existing abuses in the p resent state of the franchise. Unless the Noble Lord.. therefore, would consent to withdraw the Bill, he worad. t Peg to move as an amendment, that it be read a second tie le this day three months. The Earl of WICKLOW considered t73i s a bad Bill, and the fact of its having been twice sent up from the House of Commons, presented no inducement to him what.. aver to give his vote for a second reading o fit. If such a Bill as this were to be introduced in reference to Ireland, the injury it would work would be intolerable. Lord COLBORNE had always regretted that a mea sure of this kind had not been the law of th e land, and therefore it should have his cordial support. The Duke of RICHMOND thought if th ere was to be any measure altering the law of registration, it ought to be a general measure. He could not see any reaso n for the passing of such a Bill as. this. It was a petty mode of legislation. There ought to be no legislation fot the bo roughs without at the same time legislating for the ei minties. If a division should be pressed, he should feel himself bound to vote for the amendment. Earl FIT Z WILLIANI agreed that thy, whole state of the registration required revision. But as to the objec tions which he had heard, he considered them all to be objections which would be more applicabl eto be nade in Committee than to the second reading o' F the Bil 1. He himself could not think but that there we re great objec tions to the Bill ; yet still, as the House .of Comm, ms had sent it up twice, it would be better to give it a second reading, than by rejecting it now to show :an unailli ngness to enter upon a full consideration of wins it the He .use of Commons had twice submitted to them. ......., Earl of DE VON opposed the second reading;..and said he should vote for the amendment. ----- Lord REDESDALE said it appeared to him. th at the person who had framed the Bill had taken a very ittal •-• row view of the subject of registration, and 'nad only looke d to the interests of the class with which h.e was connect d. Earl of CLARENDON—Do you raux t consider tl,a..t personal ? Lord REDESDALE:--No. Lord HOLLAND—The remark of my Nob le Friend is however very pertinent, that this , o.pposition wou ld not have been given to the Bill six mont as ago._..( Hear.) Strangers were then ordered to withdraw , and their Lordships di v id e d, w h e n the numbers were For the second reading .....• Against it O - • • . 80 Majority The Bill is consequently lost. PRISONS' BILL. The House then went into Committee sin the Prisons' Bill. Clauses 1,2, and 3, were agreed to, aft Ar a few verbal amendments. On clause 4 being read, The Bish o p o f LONDON moved the introdu c ti on of an amendment to the effect that the b 104 '(s f or t h e in struction of the prisoners should be select ed by the Chap- lain. The Duke of RICHMOND objected to the amend ment. The Earl of CHICHESTER !ty ggegti d that the Chaplain should have a concurrent ,p.trisdict ion with the visiting - justices. The Bishop of LONDON had no tbjeC .ion to shape his amendment in that way. The Earl of WlCKLOWsaidthetewer era any Protest ant Chaplains in Ireland who would feel it in consistent to allow a Roman Catholic book to _enter r g •.a.ol even for Roman C a th o li cs . Il e believed the sarr a fc t ling pre vailed considerably here. He should ye to aga inst the amendment. Lord ELLENBOROUGH knew a f :i g h t n 0,.. 'rend Prelate in Ireland who acted differently, I hinking tha '' as the Catholics would have books, they had ' sette r ;lave t, ' l e best books of the kind than bad ones. He ehe re f,,, e 1 0 01" care they should have the best. The Bishop of I, OND ON said if a clerg r i , a) I in his dio cese had refused to admit the Catholic b . o t. --, he s hould take him t o tas k.—( H ear , hear.) Still ?w ? , oug h t the Protestant c h a pl a i n s h ou ld supervise t . l ' .e books g enerally. There were so me books, such as Soul," whi c h oug h t not to be admit.: into an me " Gat ed prkson. The Marquis of WESTNIEA-11/ y .den of the tho u gh: t his Noble Friend (the E. , rl of Wicklow) Wag rilis t. - ,tali en, as every gaol in Ireland had a Catholic. Chaplain, . ,o(1 therefore the Protestantshad nothintc to ''..,0 with them. The Bishop of EXE,TIZR oppose' I t h e amendment. There ought to be some legitimate mode of enabling per sons not belonging to the Church to have those books of their respective persuasions which they required. After some further discussion, The Bishop of LONDON withdrew his amendment for the present, and clause 4 was agreed to. On clause 5 being proposed, The Marquis of SALISBURY moved the omission of the clause. The LORD CHANCELLOR said the object of the clause was to classi'y the prisoners, distinguishing debtors, prisoners committed for trial, and those convicted. If the clause should be 'ejected, there would be no classification at all. The Duke of RICHMOND said that prisoners con victed ought not to be allowed to mix with the others. He did not think the clause ought to be struck out. Lord WHARNCLIFFE said the former system of classification had put counties to enormous expense, with out any benefit whatever. Prisoners before trial ought not to be put in the same class as those who had been con victed. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but the clause was agreed to without a division. On clause 6 being proposed, The Duke of RICHMOND proposed that the word " Governor" should be inserted, which was agreed to. Clauses 7, 8 and 9 were also agreed to. Clause 10 was agreed to. Ciause 11 was agreed to, with a verbal amendment pro. posed by the LORD CHANCELLOR. Clauses 12 and 13 were agreed to. Clause 14 was agreed to, after a short conversrtion upon a proposition made by the Marquis of SALISBURY, that the number of prisoners mentioned at 100, should be altered to 50, but which was not pressed to a division. The Duke of RICHMOND proposed that the 15th clause should be omitted altogether, on the ground that no age was stated, at which superannuated allowances to officers of prisons was mentioned. After a few words from Lord WROTTESL EY against the amendment it was withdrawn, and the clause agreed to. — On clause 16 being read, The Marquis of SALISBURY said he objected to the appointment of Roman Catholic Chaplains to the pri sons, and moved that the clause be omitted. The Bishop of LINCOLN also objected to the clause. The Duke of RICHMOND thought the matter should be left to the discretion of the Visiting Justices who might appoint a Roman Catholic Chaplain if they thought proper. The Earl of FING A L regretted to hear that the Noble Duke, who had paid so much attention to the subject of prison discipline, should object to the present clause. It was admitted that much advantage was derived from the system of separate confinement, and the instruction of the Chaplain could in such cases be very much enhanced. II the subject had been taken up on religious grounds, he (the Earl of Fingal) would not stand up in support of the clause, because he was certain he should be in a fearful minority. Neither could it be taken up on party or politi cal grounds, because it had been supported by all parties in the other Ilouse. It had been supported by Lord Stan lev and all the most strenuous friends of the establishment. There were, he believed, few gaols in England in which the number of Catholics would amount to 50, the number fixed by the clause. Indeed, in Liverpool the number was very large, there being 216 Protestants and 174 Catholics. He hoped the clause would be retained. The Earl of WICKLOW said the principle of having a Roman Catholic Chaplain appointed to the gaol was re cognized in Ireland, and therefore it could not be considered a new one. Although there were very great dissensions between the clergymen of both persuasions in Ireland, he must say that he had never seen anything of the kind in their attendance upon the gaols, and they had performed their duties respectively without animosity or ill will. The right of a clergyman of the Roman Catholic persuasion to enter a gaol was recognised by law, and it was much better when such a right existed to place the chaplains under the control of the Visiting Justices. After a few words from the Duke of RICHMOND in explanation, The Bishop of LONDON said whatever the opi nion of the Noble Earl might be the principle was a new one, and he hoped their Lordships would not sanction it. Looking at the controversy that existed between the two churches he was satisfied that if the present privi lege was granted it would be made the means of proselyt ism in prisons. If there were 49 Roman Catholics in prison, it would be the interest, or the duty, of the clergyman to have a 50th added. But after having once appointed the chaplain, if the number fell to 45 or 40, you could not get rid of the clergyman then—he would remain attached to the prison. The only difference between the proposed and the present system was, that whereas formerly the prisoners received spiritual instruction whenever they re• quired it gratu,tously, now it would be paid for. He felt that the clergymen of the Roman Catholic, as well as other sects, would deem it their duty to attend to the wants of their flocks just as well without being paid for their services. He hoped, therefore, the clause would be excluded from the Bill. The Lord CHANCELLOR supported the clause. Let their Lordships consider what they would be doing by rejecting this clause. The object of improved prison discipline would be to give these individuals religious, in struc: ion, and in every other way to improve them. But if they rejected the clause, they would deny Roman Ca tholics spiritual instruction altogether, for it could not he supposed they would receive instruction from the Chap lains of the Church of England. Their Lordship's had come to the conclusion that L..)0 prisoners were enough fur one Chaplain to attend to, but that 170 might be at.. tended by the Roman Catholic Chaplains, without any in struction whatever. Independent of religion the question was, whether the public generally were not benefited by this instruction being afforded. The Bishop of EXETER said as soon as this clause should be adopted, there would start up a population of Roman Catholics in all our gaols.—( A laugh.) The Noble and Learned Lord had said that the prisoners could not receive instruction from chaplains of the Church of Eng land ; but he was not borne out by experience, for he vsas assured by the chaplain at the prison at Clerkenwell, that out of 130,000 prisoners in various gaols, he had not found any objection to listen to religious instruction. Persons who were inmates of gaols were not of ♦ery scru pulous tenets. With them there was a want of religion altogether, and they were likely to derive important benefit from the instruction of the clergymen of the Church of England. The Liturgy was such that the Roman Ca tholics of all ranks for many years after the Reformation attended divine service in the Church. In this case there was no proposition about general religion. There was a great principle involved in this case, and there were many peculiar considerations which made it undesirable that they should sacrifice it. If there was one s3stem more than another dangerous, it was the Roman Catholic religion, on account of the doctrine of absolution ; and in proof of this he need only refer to what was stated in 1 525 by the Rev. J. Burnett, who said, from his experience, he was satified that no Roman Catholic had any dread of ge neral perdition. Their Lordships then divided, when there appeared— Contents Non-contents Majority against the clause —42 The remaining clauses were agreed to, and the House resumed. The Metropolis Police Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be printed. CUSTODY OF INFANTS BILL. Lord L YN DH UR S T in moving the second reading of this Bill, said he did so at this late hour (12 o'clock) be cause his Noble and Learned Friend, the Chief Justice of the Queen's Bench, would be prevented from attending on a future occasion, in consequence of his duties on Circuit, and be was certain their Lordships would be anxious to hear his Lordship's od inion. In the late Ses sion e Bill similar in principle, but differing in some of its details came up from the other House, where it had passed by a large majority, but it was lost in this House by a majority of two, there being nine for the second reading, and eleven against it. The Bill had again come up, having been passed by a larger majority than before, and that coupled k ith the circumstance that their Lord ships had scarcely pronounc ed any opinion on the subject, would insure their anxious consideration of it. Under the present law a husband might, from the mcst corrupt motives, to justify vengeance, or from profligate intentions in another quarter, take away from his wife their common children, and refuse her all access, and yet the law would be powerless in her behalf—she could ob tain no redress. Was not this a cruel and unjust law ?-- ( Hear, hear.) Who that knew a mother's love and solici tude for her offspring, and how much her happiness de pended on being always in their presence, could say that this was not a cruel, harsh, and unjust law —a law which violated nature as well as justice ? Before 1 he called upon their Lordships to apply a remedy, he would cite three cases to show that it was as he described it. But the law was harsh only to the virtuous-minded moldier. She was deprived of all control over her chil dren, or even of access to them ; while the mother of an illegitimate child, a profligate woman, perhaps might have uncontrolled dominion over her child. The first case was one which came before Lord Ellenborough in 1804. It was that of a French emigrant who had married" a wife possesssed of 7001. or 8001. a year. She set tled 2,0001, upon him, if he should survive her. They had one infant. The husband, disliking the settlement, wanted her to make a will in his favour, which she refused. The man threatened to take the child from her, if she would not yield. She applied to the Court of King's Bench for protection, but Lord Ellenborough said that as the law stood he was powerless—be could afford no relief. Thus this man was protected by the law, while he was gratifying the basest of all purposes—to extort pecuniary sacrifices from the terrors of an affectionate mother. The next case was that of a man named Skinner, who treated his wife with extreme bru tality. He then left her, and lived in adultery with a woman named Donovan. The conduct of the mother was irreproachable, but the father took their daughter from her, and placed her in the hands of Donovan. Mrs. Skinner applied to the Court of Com mon Pleas for a Habeas Corpus to bring up her daughter, and deliver the child to her ; but his Noble Friend near him ( Lord Wynford) said he could riot interfere, and the case was dismissed. The next case was that of Mr. and Mrs. Ball, who were separated on account of the adultery of the husband. Their child was taken from her, and placed in the care of a woman of all work. Mrs. gall applied to the Vice-Chancellor, Sir John Leach for redress, but he told her there was no relief. The next ease was that of Mrs. Taylor, who left her hus band on account of his gross adultery. Yet the husband „,. ou ,-1 have taken their children from her, if she had not evaded the law by escaping with them to the Continent. Mr. Justi.ee Patteson Nal° then heard her application in the Court of King's Bench, said that there was no re dress for her. Now he (Lord L.) trusted he had proved his proposition, that this was a tyrannical, unjust, and un natural law 2—( Hear, hear.) This Bill proposed the remedy. All it proposed was, that the mother, on application to one of the Judges of the Court of Equity, should be allowed access to her chil dren under certain restrictions. They might consider the details in Committee. All he now requested of their Lordships was, to agree to the second reading of the Bill. He knew there were several objections to this measure. One was that a wife's property became that of her hus band; but this hardship might be mitigated in the Court of Equity, if due care were observed in framing the mar riage contract. It would be said that he could refer to any three or four cases of a wife applying to a court of jus tice; but it should be remembered that a wife would endure a great deal, before she would apply for redress to a Court; and she was the less inclined to do so now, because she generally was told that the law would not relieve her. It was also objected that those cases would take up much of the time of the Courts, but was that an argument where the most important rights of humanity and justice were involved. It was well known that a wife would endure much misery and wrong sooner than leave her children or lose her position in society, but they ought not to legalize brutality, injustice, and cruelty on this account. He trusted their Lordships would assent to the second reading. Lord W YNFORD concurred with his Noble and Learned Friend as to the hardship and injustice of the law but he thought the proposed remedy would be most mischie vous. Ile thought a very judicious Bill might be introduced on the subject, but the present was not one of that descrip tion. It bad been most properly said that the care of the children belonged to the husband, and that that right can not be interfered with ; but where both the parties had misconducted themselves, let their children be taken from the custody of both their unworthy parents. It would be impossible otherwise to have them properly brought up. He never entertained any desire to oppress women in such a situation, nor would it be supposed that he was influenced by any such desire. He contended that where the custody of the children was in one of the pa rents it was most improper to give access to the other. There were many cases in which it would be most injudi cious to allow the guilty party to see the children. He should be glad if his Noble and Learned Friend, instead of bringing in a Bill like the present, had introduced one to diminish the expenses of proceedings of that description, and to give further powers for the safeguard and protection of the children to the Court of Chancery. On these grounds he should feel it his duty to move that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. Lord D ENM A N thought, after the statement by his Noble and Learned Friend ( Lyndhurst) of the present state of the law, it must be obvious to their Lordships that it was imperatively necessary that some alteration should be made to prevent the frightful and revolting instances of cruelty and oppression that were so frequently taking place. The Noble and Learned Lord than referred to Skinner's case, and also that of Greenwell v. Green well, which came before himself and the rest of the Judges of the Court of Queen's Bench, in which a young and blameless wife was deprived of all intercourse with her children, through no fault of her own, while the husband was leading a most immoral life. He could assure their Lordships that there were not ono of the Judges of the Queen's Bench who did not, when obliged to refuse assistance in that case, feel ashamed of the state of the law they were compelled to administer. There could be no doubt as to the facts of the case upon which relief was to be afforded, because it might be provided that a third party should be present. It was said this was likely to produce separation, and pro long it. He (Lord D.) thought quite the contrary. The present law was cruel to the wife, debasing to the character of the husband, and dangerous and ruinous to the health and morals of the children. The third clause provided, that where the child was in the custody of the father, the mother might have the opportunity of going before one of the Judges in Equitt, to see whether she ought to have access to the child. This Bill provided a complete remedy for all the cases which could arise between husband and wife, and he did not think their Lordships would take on themselves the res ponsibility of throwing it out without a second reading. [Messengers from the House of Commons brought in the Canada Government Bill, and the Register of Births, &c. The LORD CHANCELLOR thought there was a jurisdiction attempted to be given by the present Bill for the permanent care and management of the children, which must be inadequate to form a judgment on the sub ject. He did not see why the powers now proposed should not be given to the jurisdiction which at present exercised power over inf ants, but it ought to be used with extreme caution. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday. On the motion of the Marquis of NORMANBY the Canada Government Bill was read a first time. Their Lordships adjourned at Twenty Minutes put One o'Ciock. BIRMINGHAM. (FROM OUR OWN CORRESPONDENT.) BIRMINGHAM, THURSDAY NIGHT. Last night and this morning the weather proved exceedingly unfavourable to the movement party, and so cleared the streets that it was not deemed necessary by the authorities that the streets should be patrolled by the military squadrons, and special constables alone !paraded such places as the rioters were likely to assemble in. During the whole night a few persons, chiefly lads, were arrested, and were this morning discharged on giving bail. The Warwickshire Yeomanry are quartered in the town, and the specials are obliged to attend the roll call, under a penalty of 51. A strong force hangs on the out skirts, but in the town the following may be relied on as being pretty near the force that occupies it : —5OO military, 60 metropolitan police, 21 municipal police, and about 400 special constables ; a force by no means adequate to meet the contingencies of the crisis. EXAMINATION AND COMMITTAL OF THE RIOTERS. Thomas Leyland and Frederick Bird were placed at the bar charged with having in their possession a pike. After a lengthened examination, Bird was ordered to find bail to keep the peace —three sureties of 50/. each, and himself in 100/. ; and, in default of such bail, to be committed to prison fur six months. Ley land was dis charged. John Jones, aged 21, Frederick, 2G, and Jeremiah Howel, aged 34, were charged with riot, on Monday the 15th. The last-mentioned prisoner has only one leg, the other having been amputated from the knee. Constable Hall sworn--On Monday, 15th of July, he was standing near the gates of the Public office, Moore street, between eight and nine o'clock at night. He saw a crowd of persons armed with sticks and bludgeons, com ing up. Those persons threatened him, called him b—g_r. Said, " Throw into him." " Pitch into him." " Remember the election." " Remember Livery-street." " Damn him, give it him." He was afraid, and took re fuge in a house. The Public-office was then safe. He re!urned in half an hour, when all the windows of the Public-office were broken. He saw a crowd in tha Bull ring, and in it Roberts. The mob retired as soon as the soldiers came in. He was then afraid to arrest Roberts, but did so on the following morning, when he found him reconnoitring about Messrs. Bourne's premises. The prisoner, Roberts, was a ring-leader amongst the Chartists, and has impeded him and Spittle in the execution of their duty. Thomas Rose deposed that on the 15th he was standing at his door in High -street, about eight o'clock in the even ing. lie sa x a mob coming down Moore-street, and breaking the windows of the Public-office. They als3 broke the windows of Messrs. Bourne's parlour, after which they forced his shop, flinging his goods into the Bull-ring. A fire was kindled in the centre of the Ring ; a portion of that fire was then conveyed to Mr. Bourne's house. He saw the prisoner Jones with a handkerchief on the end of a pole, in front of the people. He was waving the handkerchief, and said something which witness could not hear. Two witnesses, R. Harley and Charles Whitton, identi fied Howell as leading on the mob from Digbeth. He carried a bludgeon on his shoulder. Several thousands (according to liarley) were present. Sergeant James Howell, 4th Royal Irish Dragoons, sworn.—On Tuesday, the 16th July, he was going down Steel House-lane, when he saw Howell flourishing a large blade knife sword, which on seeing him the prisoner flueg down. Witness dismounted, took up the knife, and ar rested the prisoner. The weapon, which was of a most deadly description, appeared to have been formed out of an old sword, and was mounted on a stick about three feet in length. Mr. Jeremiah Hughes was standing near the Black Boy and Woolpack on Monday, about eight o'clock. He saw a great crowd of men bearing with them 60 or so yards of bed ticker or calico, which they spread across Spiceall street to Edgebaston-street. Howell was in the crowd, and had in his hand a deal scantling. The mub broke the vi-iiidows of Mr. Scudamore's house. The depositions were then read over, and the prisoners called on for their defence. They all declared their inno cence. The witnesses then signed the depositions, and were bound over to appear at the next assizes, to which the prisoners were committed for trial. A letter has been received from Lord John Russell in reply to the requisition forwarded to his Lordship, and which demanded an immediate inquiry into the conduct of the Magistrates, who arc charged by the requisitionists wiJi a dereliction of duty, in having left on the 15th their properties and lives exposed and unprotected to the fury of the mob. His Lordship demands that the evidence of such statements shall ba immediately forwarded to the Home Office. William Be!soy, the Chartist leader, has just been committed for seditious language. Two wit besses proved that on Sunday last, at Holloway Head, he advised the people to blow up the rail-road, " and barricade the streets." This man had been previously bound to keep the peace, and twice convicted in penal ties of 403. and 51., for addressing the mob in the Bull Ring. Al agree that the present state of this borough is awfully critical and posil-us. VIOLENT GALE—ELGIN.—On Wednesday afternoon we were visited by a most violent and destruc tive gale of wind from the south-east. About two o'clock P. M. the wind, which had been pretty high throughout the forenoon, began to blow with great fury; and in a short time the whole country was enveloped in clouds of drifting sand and earth, carried from the roads and fields. Leaves and branches were torn from the fruit and forest trees ; and we much fear the wasteful fury of the gale will be se . verely felt. We have heard that some extemsive fields of turnips have been almost w holly destroyed, the soil and plants having been torn up ai.d drifted away. Th e whea t stalks, tender and luxuriant, with heavy heads, are twisted and broken. Early barley, potatoer, and indeed everything exposed to the violence of the wind, have sufFored more or less damage. When the gale subsided, ab ou t seven o'clock P. DI. the fields had a dingy and wasted appear tince, and th e woods were as thi ckly strwn with fallen leaves aq w e have seen them after a gale in autumn.— El g in Lou , ant. SUDDEN DEATH OF A LADY U NKNOWN.— Yesterday morning, a few minutes res pectably attired before ten o'clock as a middle-aged lady (at present unknown) was walking along high.street, Marylebone, she suddenly fell and expired. The body was removed to Marylebone Infirmary to be owned and await an inquest. EVENING EDITION. SURREY THEATRE. A new play was brought out last night, written by N. P. Willis, Esq., author of " Pencillings by the Way." It was entitled Tortesa, The Usurer. The scene is Flo rence, and the story is founded on a tale of which many among our readers doubtless have heard, of a lady who, having been married against her will, was prematurely buried, while only in a temporary trance, or under sus pended animation, escaped the horrors of an untimely tomb, through the coffin being opened by a sexton, covetous of her jewels, when thus restored to life,' and applying at her husband's door for admission, was repulsed as an appa rition, and therefore claimed by a lover who possessed her heart. This, at least, has evidently supplied the author with the idea, which certainly is romantic and interesting enough for a dram a , an d i s in this play employed with con siderable effect and still greater success. Isabella, the high born daughter of the noble race of Falcone, is be trothed by a needy father to the wealthy and ambitious usurer for certain lands and monies, which are to repair his ruined fortune. Angelo, a young painter, with a soul of fire and enthusiasm unbounded for his art, struck with admiration by Isabella's matchless beauty, strives to mirror on his canvass those unrivalled charms, which fix his rapt affection—while the fair original catches the inspiration of his spirit, and proud of the genius which idolizes her, ardently returns his love. On the day when she is to be wedded to her hated suitor she is found to all appearance dead, and with a celerity rather marvellous is forthwith hurried to the tomb. At midnight, waking from a sleep produced by artful means, she takes refuge in her lover's house, having been refused admittance to her father's, as seeming not of earth. While in the painter's studio, the usurer, with a guard, comes to search for the imagined corpse, which it is sup posed that Angelo had stolen. The p t intingis concealed, and within the vacant frame Isabella takes her station— when the curtain hiding her is removed by her betrothed, he starts in breathless wonderment at what he deems the marvellous pourtrayal. The effect was startlingly dramatic and drew down thunders of applause. The bridal veil, however, is found, and throws upon the painter suspicion of the crime, whi c h Fl orence d ooms to d eat h. A t t h e trial he is about to be condemned, when rushes in, to the speech less bewilderment of all save himself, the imagined dead. She is claimed by the father for her betrothed husband, who, seized with a touch of generous emotion, relinquishes his title, and gives her hand to Angelo. The language of the play is often beautiful, and some times strikingly, because truthfully, forcible. The acting of Wallack, as the Usurer, was throughout warmly ap plauded—and, indeed, exceedingly effective. At the close the cheering was unbounded, and he was compelled to come forward and receive the gratulations of the audi ence. Miss Grant, Mrs. H. Vining, and Mr. Saville were also much applauded. The piece was announced for repe tition to - morro w. THE AYRSHIRE M.C. AND HIS CONSTITUENTS. A numerous meeting of County Delegates was held yesterday (Thursday) in Mr. Paylcr's Hall Mr, M'Ewan, of Mauchline, in the chair. Mr. Craig ex plained the reasons why he had left the Convention—the principal one being that they had adopted ulterior measures before the country was at all ready for them, and before the House of Commons had decided on the petition. A warm discussion ensued. The Delegates from Kilwinning, Stcwarton, Tarbolton, Saltcoats, Prestwick and Ayr, Irvine, Fenwick, Kilmarnock, and Kilbirnie, stated that their places were entirely unprepared for any such thing as ulterior measures. A motion was made and seconded, that Mr. Craig, having received no instruction from his constituents on the subject of ulterior measures, and the country not being prepared for such, this meeting think him justified in leaving the Convention, and they receive his retirement. An amendment having been made, the vote was taker,, when six Delegates voted for the motion, and nine against it—six declining to vote at all. After communicating with Alr. Craig, he stated that he would resign his office of Delegate. The meeting then made arrangements for having a coun ty meet i ng , to c h oose another Delegate.—Ayrshire Examiner. The statement is followed up by the following announce ment in the advertising columns of the same journal : " TO THE PEOPLE OF AYRSHIRE. " The Convention, of which I was a member, having, in my opinion, committed Political Suicide—and a majority of this County's Delegates, met yesterday, having ap proved of the same, I can no longer act in the honourable capacity of Delegate for Ayrshire ; and, therefore, beg leave to announce my intention of being at my commercial post every hour of every lawful day. " Kilmarnock, 12th July, 1839." " HUGH CRAIG. CHARTIST MEETING. -_ T On Friday evening last, a public meeting of the Chartists in Irvine, was held in the Com mercial Academy, situated on M'Farlane's Hill, when, after a long and animated debate on the propriety of sending another Member to the Convention, in place of Mr. Hugh Craig, Kilmarnock, the meeting at length fixed on Mr, M'Crae, teacher in Kilmarnock.—Ayrshire Observer. OPENING OF A CATHOLIC CHURCH AT EVERINGHAM —Last %leek, we noticed to our readers that this building, which the munificence and religious zeal of Wm. C. Maxwell, Esq., has reared for the worship of God, would be consecrated and opened by a very large attendance of the Bishops and Clergy of the Catholic Church, and several of the Nobility and Gentry of the County. On Tuesday and Wednesday last, these rites took place, attended by circumstances of splendour which have not been surpassed, if ever equalled, since the time of the Reformation. The Church is situated immediately contiguous to the mansion of Mr. Maxwell, in his spacious Park, and has been erected principally for the accommoda tion of his neighbours and tenantry who bold the Catholic faith. The model from a hich the architecture of it is taken is the , liaison Dieu, at Nismes, in the south of France. The general plan is after the most ancient of the cruciform churches, being an oblong of about 70 feet by 30 feet, with an addition of an ante-chapel at one end, over which ex tends the tribune or gallery, and a semicircular sanctuary at the other end, in which is placed the altar, forming- alto gether a length of one hundred and twenty feet. The altar is of the richest Italian marbles and workmanship ; and the whole sanctuary will, when completed with the statues and pictures in preparation for it, present a mass of architectural and artistical decJration probably not to be equalled in this country. The whole of the light to the chapel is admitted from the ceiling. The exterior is plainer and more chaste in its character, and the architec tural affect is evidently confined to the entrance front. The work is executed in the most beautiful and substantial manner. The following is a list of the Bishops and Clergy who formed the various processions, and engaged in the ceremonies :---Right Rev. Drs. Briggs, V.A., Carruthers, V. A, Murdoch, V. A., V. A. ; Rev. Messrs. Bar- row, Connell, Weston, Johnston, Clark, M'Kay, M‘Pher son, Dowding, Marsh, Walmsley, C. Newaham, G. Gil low, Fisher, Abbot, Morris, Best, Connatty, Trappes, Etheridge, Burniss, Pratt, H. Newsham, Heptonstall, Kellet, Middlehurst, 12 , gby, Platt, Pratt, Smith, Cock. shoot, V. Eyre, sen., Rigby, Hampson, Roby, Gibson, Eyre, jun., - Ball, Crane, Johnson, Bell, J. Jones, Lon. don, Peter Kay, James Neweham, Robert Hogarth, Thos. Bil!ington, John Walker, George Kcasley, Robert Tate, Turner, James Runder, Morriss, Daniels, Bird, Reed, Keenan, George Gibson, J. Jones, Hasson, John Glover, Hearne, Matthew Newsham, Jos. Curr, Reonalls, Robert Gillow, Charles Eyre. Amongst the company present we noticed the High Sheriff of Yorkshire, Miss Tempest, of Broughton ; the lion. Philip Stourton, Sir Edw. Vavasour, Miss Vavasour, the lion. C. Stourton, Middleton, Esq., of Middleton Hall ; Peter Middleton, Esq., of Stockfield Park ; Mrs. Maxwell, of Thorp-Arch; H. Maxwell, Esq., and Jos. Maxwell, Esq., of Thorpe-Arch ; M. Max well, Esq., Terrigles, Scotland ; P. Maxwell, Esq., Aid. Agar, R. H Anderson, Esq., William Anderson, Esq., &c., &c., &c.—York Courant. [A long account is after wards given of the ceremony.) SINGULAR CASE OF LIFE PROLONGED WITH OUT FOOD. —Agnes Docherty, wife of Farrah Gallagher, weaver in Prestwick, aged 65, died on Sunday morning last, the 7th instant, of a closing up of the gullet just about where it enters into the stomach. For a long time past she had experienced a difficulty in swallowing any solid food ; and for fifteen weeks previous to the closing up of the passage, she was supported on milk and water alone, with occasionally a little whisky made into toddy. The passage closed completely up on the 14th or 15th of June last, and since then no sustenance of any de scription passed into the stomach, and every attempt to administer nourishment in any other way entirely failed. The sensation of hunger, which was very strong, entirely ceased on the closing up of the passage, and for twenty-three or twenty-four days she continued in that state, free, rot only from pain, but from any other bodily ailment whatever. The vitality of the body being sustained for that length of time solely by its own internal resources, and that too, %%hen there resources had been greatly attenuated and ex hausted by the comparative starvation of the five or six months preceding. The only uneasiness felt was a sensa tion of heat in the throat, which was from time to time allayed by swallowing a mouthful of cold water, vlieb, however, she could never retain beyond a few seconds, when it was thrown up again. This, together t; ith lat terly an occasional moistening of the palms of th e h ands nourishment fo r th e l ast yi absorption mere l y, s with water when she fe lt inclined to faint, was the only external receive dthantoub th r ee weeks of her li f e . She a ll i. l .)ng was i s a •ery i%a s possible sourceible fromse could which, ec and happy frame of placid and Christian resignation, and it :s in compliance with her own humble request that this account is made public.—Ayr Observer. ---DEAFNESS.—At length thi s d r e a df u l malady is com pletely obviated, without torture and serious risk by me dical treatment. Th e M essrs. S. and B. the siz e o f a seven-shillingyhavecopnisetcreu,cteaea Voice Conductor, which, 39, Albemarle-street, Piccadilly, when fixed into the eavit% of the ear, is soft, easy, and not more uncomfortable ncr perceptible than having ing wool in its place ; t'al:epieucabli of and that which is deserving attention and approbation ir, that an individual in company e may place it in the ear and remove it unobserved. It pours into the ear the general conversation to such an extent that, in the most severe case, sufferers are enabled to hear the slightest whisper at a public assembly. Their newly invented Spectacle Lenses, immediately they are placed before imperfect vision, bring it at once back to its original and natural state, and the most minute particle is seen, either by day or candle light, li ith exact distinctness. Those valuable improvements in the materials are secret to themselves, and are solely confined to their establishment, 39, Albemarle-street. No agents nor travellers are cm -1 ployed. THE ASSAULT ON THE QUEEN. — The in dividual who was on Wednesday gu ilt y of insulting and absurd conduct towards her Mijes t y , while takin g an airi ng in Hyde Park, was yesterday ta ken to the Home-office, wie. wit privatereahe the examination l‘iate o f Queen-squa re , and seal gistr3 i n to the case took several b e f ore Air. of the Under Secretaries of State. One of the inspec t,ra 1 of the Queen-square district of police was sent down to I Bow-street, to req uest the attendance of Sir Frederick 1 Roe, but the worthy Baronet is at present out of town, and the examination accordingly proceeded without him, After a long examination the prisoner was remanded. I