The Sun. — London, England, 1821-03-27 00:00:00

• Which the Roman Catholic Was 'placed—Ant forward only to the extent of power which it was intended to grant, and considering the, degree of . perverseness • and incurable bigot r y of those Roman Catholics who might find th e i r way _ into that 'House, Had proceeded to delitrer a ser i es of observatiOns, which he " W as surprised that any• man, at the - present period, could make up his mind to address to such an assembly. He stated, in the first place, that he meant to Address two sets of people in that ifouse—ono party who considered restric tions of no value, and another who considered there of, considerable importance. Now he was one who looked to penal restrictions as of very little importance; and if any one expected to hold and bind that vast and powerful body by no other means but those' enactments which they Were called on to sanction, he should think, in that case, that the state had a very slender hold on them. But, when he knew that men were governed by their interests, feelings, and passions, When he saw that the Roman Catholics had a great stak e iu, the country, when he was aware that many of them possessed extensive information, and 'were looked up to as men of high consideration-- !hen he came to this conclusion, that their interests bound them to support the existing institutions of the country as strongly and as decidedly as any set o Persons in that Ho u s e .. (H ear , hear.)-7-Ile 11fessed that he looked to these securities —se,. ettrlties derived from interest and information— . r inhnitely better than,any that c ou ld b e d er i ve d E rc " legisl a ti ve enac tments.—(Hear, bear.)--The Catholi cs Gentl eman sa id , " If we a d mit the Roman, into this House, we give them an Op- Pvrtunity. of making themselves of such conside- I-4 t l na, that they will carry what measures they Please., Having conceded to them scats in Par liament, they will immediately unite toeether and °,vercorne the wholeProtestantpowerof tliecountry.l S uch an argument was in fact to suppose that the Protestants were less attached to their faith, th ey were less attached, to their . Constitution, that o they l oo k e d w i t h less fondness n that which ,;atl made th em a great an d powerful nation, than 'nose persons, who, it must be recollected, formed a- very small minority in the whole scale of the Population. The Hon. Member then proceeded lo descant on what was done in the year 1793. 44 (Mr, Calcraft) hardly thought that it would. Over hare -fallen to his lot to defend a measure San ctioned by-M r . Pi tt, aga i nst the attack of the I ". Gentleman. But if ever an unfair attack Were made on the memory of a great man, it was contained in the observations which the Hon. {'Cattleman had made on that measure. He had asserted that the privileges granted in 1793 were Conceded, because there was a race of popularity between two parties, each of whem was anxious to (1 0 the most, in order to conciliate the Roman C atholics, and thereby to assist themselves.— ' (Rear,-hear !)—Did the Honourable Gentleman really think that Mr. Pitt, and Those who acted With him at the time, were influenced by stich mo tives and reasons ?—(Hear, hear!)—W as it then 'merely a political expedient of,the day, resorted t ° for the purpose of procuring the support of that •F i ." -er fal body ?—(Hear, hear !)—lie denied th a t : W as any such thing. Mr. Pitt, an d th ose.w h o F t ed With him, were influenced: by the change of , Itireurnstances—by the growing power of the 4.!jaku--Cattioncs, by the g ood conduct they h a d a "Played, an d b y the praise -worthy desire of at 'aching to our general system that great aed im irrtant body, t h e R oman Catholic population o f %ireland•—(Hear; hear!)—But let the lion. Gen enian recoll ec t th at t hi s was not the first con t a!'sion that was mad e . Al t h oug h P ar li ament, aat that ti me, granted the Elective Franchise to ge Rom an C at h olics, it had, before that period, eought them b y d egrees within the pale of the t t eins titution.• Th ey had .been -allowed to pur .tv".ase and t o h o ld lands, and also to intermarry 1, Protestants. Mr. Pitt was of opinion, and .tie thought the opinion a correct one, that the was come when Pa r li am e n t m i g ht g i ve to t h e Catholic b o d y t h e pr i vilege-of the -Elective Fran till set, Did the lion. Gentleman think that if j us , ttoman Catholics exercised the right so given, Y, fai r l y , ant i w i th perfect propriety, Mr. Mr.ttt meant to stop at that concession ? Certainly, 'aa r Teant no such thing; for seven years after taus, when the Union was proposed be at., er r England an d Ireland, one of. the main sa lt , t qrt en.s on which he founded that mea tsal Was the necessity of merging the Ito latiao Catholic population in the. whole popu tifaerti of the empir e ; an d w h en t h at was t he n e(1 , he was prepared to give them fur 4(laitr.ights and privileg e s.--(If ear !)—F or these 'ia t ; l "al rights and privileges, the friends of the Catholics had been since contending; l ~eT e l h le 'se rights and privileges he hoped they ' - `\V - ,", ° ‘v near gaining for that body.—(hear!) !() th e C, When the Elective Franchise was granted frig -4 tholics, could they be blamed for proceed ittli e course they had done, and endeavouring Pta..4.—;7eae every privilege that remained ?- 3 o % )--- -Could they s a y t o th e h uman mind— ,lV l as 4 Shalt th ou go, an d no farther ?—(Bear !) 'li ti it not the necessary and natural result, Ct34artPart was granted, to seek the rest?— ill was glad the opponents of the k e he ered him for this principle was the very -st o „ ,„ 't-Ipp tie on which he stood—it was the main Ir I le ' l4 of his whole argument.—(Hear, hear!) I:l,,aintained that the Roman. Catholics had, I ,:ee e i7ir excellent conduct since they had to t ed this indulgence, qualified themselves that tile high situation to which their friends in ' l e4 l , a °use wished to introduce them.—(Hear,ti liti --- onsiderin g the march of the human il)ta Pei it was i m p oss ibl e to grant a fragment of ) cl such as th e e l ect i ve franchise, to the ei'an Catholics, and to withhold the remain taih They m i g ht as well tell a child that he n ot , t walk, but that he should not run. It was f or L in . natu re , when m en h a d qualified themselves i n n igher situations, to prevent .them from ask and taking those situations. Those . situ ,s they had a right to demand ; and that de 4,itnjt ought to be acceded to, if it could be done tr ,t 4 Safety to the whole comrnuni ty.—(ifear!)— [ lo ne could -contemplate the danger which the le 1,1• Gentleman had conjured up to his own view, . would be the last man to support this proposi it were likely to lead to the subversion of the church establishMent in Ireland, Or if it, were likely to lead to any of, those dangers which the Hon. Gentleman had described, he would not ac euiescia in it. But let Gen tlerrien consider the por tion of representation which, even on the showing of the RCHOn.Gent. opposite (Mr. Pe el) W ou ld, if the Measure we re carried, be introduced to that House ; and then let them,exathine what danger could be apprehended'from it. If prejudices re mained in the mi n d s o f the Roman Catholic laity, if they were not sufficiently acqtiainted with the business of the world, the very way to.eradicate those prejudices, and to enlighten their minds, would be to mix them up with the Protestant eithblishment in that House: Every one who, wished well to the Censtitution said, When a radical or a demagogue broached his opinions— " send him here ; here we can talk to him ; here we can deal with him!" And the same observation would apply to the Roman Ca tholics, if they entertained any improper views. But if the Roman Catholics did, indeed, en tertain such views as were ascribed to them, why did they not endeavour to effect them, al though they were not in - Parliament ? Every one knew their preponderance in Ireland ; and every one also knew their peaceable and loyal habits. Were they then to suppose that these men, who, tho Ugh oppressed, remained 'reasonable, loyal, and peaceable, would' become unreasonable and disloyal the moment they got into that House ? (Hear !)—But it was said, " 0 ! they want to get political power !" Get *power Why were 20 or 30 persons, educated, as the Hon. Gentlethan had said, at Stoneyhurst, so formidable, that the safe ty of the Constitution would be endangered if they were admitted to Parliament ? But the ef fect would be, that in order to qualify them for seats in that House, they would not be educated at Stoneyhurst. They would be obliged to seek elsewhere for .that education which would enable them to fill seats in Parliament,-and which would be necessary, even for the carrying into execu tion those diabolical plans to which the Hen. GentlernarP had adverted.--(Hear, hear !)—The Roman Catholics were already admitted to the command of fleets and armies. They - were intrusted with power in' situations where they could not. be controlled, but they were refused admission to Parliament, where they could be controlled by a great majority.— Surely the lion. gentleman could not but be lieve what had . been stated by 'those Noble Per sons who had petitioned the HOuse. Surely he could not believe but that they would take the necessary oaths in their plain and obvious sense, as they had solemnly declared they would. The Hon. Gentleman had wandered very much from the - question ; which. was, whether, after the House had decided on an oath, with the express object in view that if the Roman Catholics took it they should be admitted into Parliament, they should .now agree to a ' clause nullifying what they had previously done. The conscientious scruples of those very persons with whom they were dealing so harshly had alone kept them from entering that House before. The existing oath militated against their religious scruples, and therefore they declined taking it. Formerly, when thi; question was discussed, they were told of the • power of the Pope, of the influence of Buonaparte, and'of the Misconduct of the Roman Catholics in Ireland. - They now heard nothing of. this ; and it . appeared to him to 'be a mere. qUestion of 'jealousy, whether the , Protes tants 'should admit a few Roman C atholics to the rights an d- pri v il eges. which they en joyed. The great points to be considered were, was any danger to be apprehended from things remaining as they now were—could this change be effected with safety to the Church . and State ? Had the conduct of the Catholic 'population of England and Ireland been such as to justify the Legislature in considering their claims ? and, finally, was the Protestant mind in this .country, ripe for` conceding those claims? lie conceived that the present was the happiest moment that could be.selected for concluding this measure— (hear, hear) ;—because there was, in the public mind, a confidence 'in the wisdom of Parliament, and the light of reason was now dawning on the popular understanding, in consequence of the repeated discussiOns on this measure in the two Houses 'of Parliament. The Honourable Gen tleman then ridiculed the idea of a few Roman Catholic Members producing such effects as the Honourable Mernber for •Corfe Castle antici pated, and concluded by 'expressing his decided hostility to the clause proposed by that Hon. Member. The SPEAKER said, he should confine himself to a very few observations upon the question im mediately before the House. He agreed with all the Hon. Members of that Reuse, who had argued that exclusion was in itself to be regarded as a griev ance, and that it could only be justified by an ade quate necessity. . Now the Bill before the House not only recognised exclusion from some offices, unless certain • conditions were complied with, but in some instances it recognised absolute and unqualified exclusion. Thus the Catholics were absolutely .excluded _ from -exercising judicial functions in the Ecclesiastical Courts. lie did not refer to this part of the Bill with a view of expressing any dis Sent from it ; on the . contrary he felt. that the exclusion was a necessary, and therefore a justifiable exclusion. But if he were justified in feeling a jealousy as to the participa tion of the Roman Catholics in, the administra tion of the laws directly affecting ourEcclesiesti cal establishment, he knew not how he was to be answered, if he declared that a jealousy might be reasonably entertained of their participation in the enactment of the laws themselves. This con sideration led immediately to that of the clause by which they were admitted into the two Houses of Parliament. When he looked to the Preamble of this Bill, in which it was stated that the laws relating to the Ecclesiastical -Establishment were permanently established, it was a necessary inference, that the Catholics were excluded from judicial offices in ecclesiastical matters, lest. any injury should arise from their maladministration. But when those laws were said to be-permanently established, the meaning of those words could only be, that they were permanent so .long as it should not please Parliament to alter them. Was it not rea.sonable,therefore, to feel a jealousy as to the continuance of those taws i.' kveit as to guard against their Maladministration ? 1 ht.! Hon.. Member who had just sat down Sw.unedfii think that the Hon: Member for: COrfe Castle had car ried his views of danger to an' 'unnecessary ex tent .; but it surely belnived them, in legislating on so important a subject, to take the longest view within their.reach ; for the law once passed was beyond their reach, and if any consequent mischief should arise, it would be no answer to say that the law might be repealed. The lion. Member for Corfe Castle said, that there was much ground foralarm; and the Hon.. Member who last addressed the House, thought there was, no such ground ; but both. th e one an d t h e other opinion were mere speculations. They were speculations upon which he did not presume to judge ; -but he must say, that upon a question of such para mount importance, he would rather look for his security to the law, than trust to the results. of chance. The Hon. Member for Bramber (Mr. Wilberforce) had said the other night, that he felt strongly inclined to believe that if the re strictions upon the Roman Catholics were re- Moved, many of them would abandon their faith and become Protestants.- . It was natur. 1 far that Hon. Gentleman, being himself an extraordinary good Protestant, and looking, as he did, to the intrinsic merits of the Protestant faith,, to enter tain such an opinion, but he (the Speaker) doubted whether a good Catholic would not be equally inclined to say " only give me admission into the House of Commons, and I will so con vince you of the troth of my religion, that you will all turn Roman Catholics."--(A laugh.)—lle could not disguise his own opinion, that difficulties had arisen, arid were accumulating, in consequence of the alteration which had been made in the clause originally proposed. It was contended by some Hon. Gent. that the Words proposed to be added, made no difference in the meaning of the claus e , but if that w ere . so , where was the necessity for alteration ? The Right Hon. Gentleman ' went On to observe,' that the only difficulty which he felt in the case was the necessity of altering the oath for the purpose of admitting...the Catholic. Te disliked two oaths, one for the Protestant and the other for the Catholic, and that for the Pro testants containing something more than that sworn to by the Catholics. He never attempted to conceal that this was the part of the question which was infinitely of•the most importance. He could not but object altogether to the present in terpolation, and yet he did not see how the oath could be altered so as to effect its purpose with out it. An Hon. Gentleman had said that the whole question turned upon, whether, on the ad mission of the Catholics to Parliament, the safety of the State could be guaranteed ; whether also the conduct of the Catholics entitled them to the enjoyment of such a .privilege; and whether, supposing those points to be allowed, this was not the most convenient time the concession should be made ? With respect to the last, though he had not the same confidence in the suc cess of the measure, he agreed with the Hon. Member that never was there a time when the deli berate judgment of Parliament was more likely to be the deliberate judgment of the people.— (Cheers !)—As to the second point, he was most willing to admit that their conduct for a long time past, and the benefits they had conferred on the country, entitled them to every thing that could be granted consistently with the safety•of • the State. He did not doubt their sincerity, but he did not think that their admission to seats in Parliament was a privilege which, in conformity with their tenets, they could exercise beneficially to the Country and Constitution. In his con science he did not believe such a privilege could be safely granted. This was his sincere and de- liberate opinion, and, as an honest man, he was bound to support his lion. Friend's Amendment. —(Hear, hear!) Mr. CINNING opposed the Amendment. He -said he considered the point now debated as the most vital one of the whole.—(Hear, hear !)—lt was that point, the withholding of which would take away much from the value of- whatever else might be conceded, and the concession of which, 'if all others were withholden, would of itself be of the greatest importance. It was this privilege which, in addition to the others which the Rt. llon. Gentleman who had just spoken, and those who maintained 'his opinion, confessed themselves ready to grant, that would form the key-stone of the arch which was to perfect the ample incor poration of the great interests which the present question of / conciliation went to promote. As to those Hon. Metnbers who maintained with him self the practicability of an arrangement, he conceived that they were not :.ailed upon to ne gative the Amendment by any previous vote.-- (Hear, hear !)—An lion. Gentleman opposite had argued, that there was much difficulty experienced in reasoning upon this subject separately, on account of what had been already granted in fact, but he ('Mr. Canning) did not admit that there was any thing granted either in fact or argument, that made it improper that the present point should be discussed in its own exclusive merits. Before he considered the grounds of the adverse .argument; he could not but acknowledge the manly and can did manner in which the 'Right Honourable Gentleman (the Speaker) had delivered his opi _ _ nion—an opinion, which, as he had formed it most conscientiously, so he was bound in duty to cot press it freely.--(Hear, hear!)—ln discharging that great duty, he had not left for a moment the road of fair argument, and one, wholesome result of the course which he adopted was, be sides contributing to the fair elucidation of the subject, to elevate and improve thin temper of de bate.—(Hear,'hear !)—The distribution of what he intended to observe upon, in reply to the ar guments adduced on the other side, was first •to state what he conceived to be the Claims of the Catholics; under the present circumstances, to ad mission to seats in Parliament; and secondly, what grounds there were for those dangers which had been raised to obstruct that concession. speaking , of the claims of men to any political offices, he should be understood to speak not of what were called natural claims, and which had no existence but in wild and impracticable theory, but of the claims of men in civilised society, where it was often expedient to controul • the rrgh Of a part for . the Sakti of the whole ; .but then that necessity'should be clearly proved, and made demonstrable : upon undeniable argu ments. When the point became a matter of -doubt, it 'could only be deterinined ,by showing whether soch r a necessity existed or no.--,(Hear, hear !)—Without reverting -to any wild theory, he must lay it down as a principle that there be- , longs, in,the nature of things, to wealth, intelli gence, station, and power, wrhether natural - or acquired, a desire of something greater, and the natural ambition of cultivated minds, and the chief object of persons of rank and opulence in this country, and which 'had been so for past ages, and' he hoped would be so for countless ages to cone, was the lendable object of a seat in - that Assembly which . !roverned the interests of the nation..,---(Hear, Clear.!)—lf, any .class of qualified persons were to be excluded from both the possession and hope of that honourable privi lege, by positive enactments, circumstances should be shewn to justify such exclusion by the existence of a necessity which could not be controuled.—(Hear, hears).l'i, t ow did such a necessity exist in this case, either in fact or reason ? lie looked to the history of the country, and found that up to a certain period no one had been prosecuted or affected at all by such enactments. But in that time the face of Eu ro p e h a d c h a n ge d, an d t h e line o demarcation which separated all nations and people among themselves, was changed. In looking through Europe, he saw that whatever was the policy of States, or the basis of their faith, that lines more especially in Spain and Portugal, was effaced, and only remained in full force among ourselves—(Hear, hear !)-WI en our Govern ment was compared with _simpler monarchies, it would be found that we enjoyed a fuller as well - as a more regulated liberty - , which gave to every man, whatever his original station. in society Might be, a capability of rising to the exercise of the highest functions of the Constitution. This right had been denied to the Catholics—the ne cessity ought to be made evident ; he had looked anxiously for the time when that separation took place. The claims of the CathOlics had been overlaid since the time of'the Reformation ; they were overlaid in the-struggle of parties, of which they afterwards• formed the ;minority ; and were more overlaid on account of circumstances of sub sequent misconduct. But it was the statute of Charles 11. which disqualified Catholics, on the ground of Foreign interference. That Foreign in terferehce was the cause alleged: Here he was en abled to return from theory _to- fact,:,and to ask what was the For e ign interference, and the sub servience to Foreign Powers to be apprehended now—(Hear, hear!) ?—The cause was removed, and the consequences which flowed from it ought no longer -to have any existence. 'Though the 13th of Elizabeth prevented Catholic Commoners' from sitting in Parliament, yet Queen Elizabeth did not prevent Peers froth sitting therein. The Commoners had been 'excluded on the ground that they were liable to Foreign influence, and were bound to a Foreign allegiance, but as Peers were More under the view and controul of the . This eAdlotnhaartcici,asthheo.ldicids not from having s e ats in that House by doctrine. or not exclude originally epnrtoevd dogina-L(Hear!)—lt was not their belief in tran substantiation which excluded them, it was a political reasons and not one of a 'religious na ture.- This exclusion lasted 260 years. .But Peers sat in Parliament till the 30th Charles 11. which. made tranSubstantia c tion not the cause, but the symbol of the cause;; why both'Peers and commoners were excluded. He would ask them for a plausible reason why. Catholic Peers satin Parliathent froth the Ist Elizabeth to the 30th Charles LI. ? and why it was ,unsafe to let them sit there now ?—(Cheers.)—He would for a mo ment leave Commoners,out Of the question,' and ask upon what imaginable ground was it that Peers sat all that tune in the Great Council of the State, and were unfit to sit - there now—why in what strange anomaly did not those laws stand at present? Commoners were only deprived of 'a moral right, however qualified, they might 'or might not be elected to serve in Parliament, but Peers were divested of a positive privilege, and these laws going further,annulled their birth rig;ht.—(Hear.)—They were dispossessed of an inherent right, they were deprived of that which belonged to their station and dignity. They still re ceived summonses to the House of Lords, and the Catholic Peers were summoned to the trial the other day ; they paid the , postage of the letters, but could not, come. —(Hear, hear ! and laughter.)— With God's blessing, he hoped this would be altered ; he did not believe it would lead to the ruin of the Constittition, that seven Catholic Peers, when summoned, should redeem them selves from postage, and take their seats.—(A laugh.)—With respect to the Commoners, some Honourable Members were Afraid . that they would outnumber them, they were in such masses at the doOrs,.looking for admittance. TheSe Hon. Members, whenever the subject was spoken of, looked and spoke as if they really heard the lion at the door, and were alarmed lest, if it were once opened, the many-headed Catholic monster should be sent in to devour them.—( Laughter.) As to the Peers, their number 'depended on the creation of the Crown, and their right was only suspended. He could easily believe that right 'could be fully exercised by allowing seven Ca tholic Peers to take their seats in the House of Lords, without causing the subversion of the Constitution. Was any one' prepared to sup port the principle, of exclusion with reference to them, on the ground that there were demagogues among tliein as among the Commoners ; or would any one say that the Howards and Talbots had so degenerated, that . they could not sit in the House of Lords without danger to the State ? (Hear, hear)—As to-- the commoners; what was the danger? let it be looked in the face, and what did it really appear to be ? Was it feared that there would be a very numerous return of Catholics. to that House, or, that being returned', they would combine, -and being combined, they would endeavour, by force or argument, to pre vail on Parliament to subvert the lawful Reli gion of the State, and in its place establish their . Church ? He never knew of such a combination ; some men had strong antipathies, and knew at once, by a sort of instinct, *heft the cat was in: the room.-L- - - -- (A did not know - whether any body could discover st Dissenter in the same manner; but he believ- , ed that it Was such - a sagacious antipathy, and Hot the force Of reason, Ivhich raised tip this danger, and detected men in selling themselves beforehand to an object of which they had never dreamed: He Would like to know, supposing the Catholics Cherished such intentions, how they were. to be adcomplished ? would grant that one hundred Catholics should be returned, foe argument's sake, and that they should congreg.ate to overturn the State and the Church, though he should be obliged to retract that by and : by. Now he knew but three ways in which any men or body of men could attempt to carry any ob ject ; first, by reason ; secondly, ,by , numbers; and thirdly, by force alone. Was it then, in the first place, to be...supposed, that the 100 Catholic Members should possess such powers of argument and eloquence, should have such a prodigious as cendency of intellect and wisdom, as to prevail on all the other Members of ,that House to disa place their own Church establishment, and erect the altars of the Catholic worship on i .ts ruins ? Wcs this for a moment to be supposed probable ? was it not one Of the wildest of all imagi nable absurdities ? would not the most distant at tempt of the kind be at once met and defeated ? Would, not even a motion for a scrap of paper, • having such a tendency, be scouted with disdain ? —(Hear, hear !)—ln the next place, could it be imagined they were to prevail by numbers ? How. was that to be done ? He could not conceive, unless they treated the majority of that Rowe in the same way that an Hon. Gentleman the other night threatened to treat the opinions which he had to combat, when in arguing against Arch deacon Pale' s -, he said he would throw the book in the fire ;—(A laugh.)—or, like .Harty the Eighth, who had gone:a little farther, when he said to the schoolmaster who presumed to dis pute with hint on theology, " I will throw- you in the fire."—(Laughter.) —Those two ways•be ing disposed of, there only remained mere fctree ; and he Would ask, if that disposition was pre:Va lent among the Catholics, .how were they- to guard against it now ?—(Hear!)—lf the feeling abroad . was.to use force, was it the way to prevent that by excluding them from the representation, which . calms popular ebullitions,' and .cools dawn men's impulses into temperate deliberation In the scheme of our _Government by which the rights of the population were guaranteed, it was his own opinion that all interests were Virtually represented in that House, except the one, and , the first act of Representatives within these walls, was to take an, oath of-de testation to that interest ; and it was carryingmat ters a little too far, to suppose , that such an. in terest could be watched over and guarded, which was in the first instance denounced by.the Representatives of the People with abhorrence. hear.)—But he said, place the Catholics n ,that House, and neither threats,. numbers, or external violence were to be dreaded. But men, in looking to imaginary, often overlooked real. danger. By looking to the laws, as they :now stood, it was not impossible, that through Catho lic agency, they might have. a Catholic Speaker to occupy that Chair now so ably and -ho nourably filled ; for in electing a Speaker. it was not necessary to take the oaths, and sup- posing, that at the commencement of the new-Par liament, a number of Catholics voted a Catholic into the Chair, where- was the remedy ? -Was it in that palladium-of Protestantism, the 30th Charles 11. ? It was enacted by that Statute, that after the election of a Speaker, each -Iktern ber should take the declaration against transqb stantiation, and thus each Member being attire Table, and a Catholic Speaker already in the Chair, could the taking of the oaths, and mak , ing the declaration, then undo what had been previously done ?—(Hear, hear ?) —Could the maxim be applied in this case, -nemo tenetur ad- impossibile, for here was no impossibility ? The thing was already. accomplished ; not only the practicability was proved, but the fact had oc curred, and how was it to be remedied ? He acknowledged -this was not a very probable.. event, nor was it very wise to apprehend it, but he conceived himself to act just as wisely in put ting such a case, as those Gentlemen who had' conjured up so !nary imaginary dangers.— (Cheers.) The Right Honourable Member then proceeded to observe upon the conse; quences of the concessions already made to- Catholics with respect to the Army and Navy, where not less danger was to be apprehend ed from Catholics, if unfaithful, than from • ParliaMentary power. He next remarked upon the state of the Colonies, where Catholics might perforni the duties of Civil governors; he refuted the argument, that their 'Bishops were not recognized in this-country by law, but only tolerated by connivance, because we acknow ledged the ordination of their Priests, and there fore recognized episcopal functions; •and even if a Catholic Priest were converted to the Church of England, and presented with a benefice, it was not necessary that he should be re-ordained, so completely was the act of his own Bishop re garded as authentic. lie allowed that it would be fair to exclude Catholics from civil offices to which ecclesiastical patronage was attached, as the Chancellorship of England, for instance, though not of Ireland, and from being Judges in the Spiritual Courts. .Ile denied that the oathlo be taken by the Protestant, according to the pre- sent Bill, would be more severe than that taken - by the Catholic, because the Protestant believed less,and indulged in - a greater latitude of incredu- . : . lity. He had no obje'ction that the oath should changed, if it was necessary to ascertain how man3i: -. : Catholics came into that House, though perhaPs - '..,± the best improvement would be that would enable both to take it. Vie Right Hon..' Member next adverted to what had been said by the Hon. Member (Mr. Bankes) who moved the t Amendment, respecting the intercourse of the' Catholics with the See of Rome. Did any man doubt that this intercoT-se had existed for years, notwithstanding the severity, the impracticable severity, with which it was interdicted ? By the 13th -of Elizabeth, it was declared treason to receive any Bull from the Court of Rome, and