The Sun. — London, England, 1844-03-26 00:00:00

;)N1)• re' Lnit inn ic.ot; p b s i r e rrt i ter lon A rr, j scO• vnit • tee fPe" °rj r fo law"' am ber ° offe ne A ti l a den ; °sec ted 136 0 „„ . he 0.; Hof I,lr. tg, ( I ) 3 f r iSnt C rA 11 , r1 ft pe rt ° Of 1411.. JO gal A Brela n .land. , 0 ° i 0 ° , o° 0 THE THEATRES. DR UR Y-LANE. ?Prdi n : ( l 4Ppeared here last evening in the character of and in Donizetti's opera of the Favourite. This iii h a s be en so repeatedly performed at this theatre gtro' the Present season, that it must be familiar to all tiV d r e s., , lt . was originally composedT,..r the Acad4ade IN4"tusique, the character of Ferdinand was writ- P os r essi,y for Duprez ; and as no composer knows 1 . 0 e ka i" 4 , ll ponizetti how to " lit" the artistes who are )1 1 14 e ,uis characters, it is to be expected that Duprez reali sed a perfect triumph, and he certainly more f` a "sed the highest expectations that could have 4419 4 of him. The opening duet with Borrani, i s of the Convent, was exquisitely given. ktk i : was the very beau ideal of a young, energetic Oao ra r 4s ,sionately desiring to exchange the quiet and o a convent for the tumult of active life. He , Is tiii " v er, too, an ar d en t and impassioned one, and line r of giving the words, "1 lore her," in answer t t li h 4etuonstrances of the Prior, was beautiful ex - S e 6 ,„.y; He w as a d m i ra ble, too, in the grand martial 4 ili t e h ltt which th e ac t concludes, when, having ob '64s hr s commission as an officer in the Guards, he liithcs brothers in arms. In the third act we find taroatried to his lady love, not knowing that she S ih ,rite of the King. He is spurned by his old tat this in arms—he knows not wherefore. Indig- M,Va treatment he is about to attack them, when ti)e:;`„ enters and informs him of the disgraceful nature 4i l „ - `"ance he has contracted. His bride enters at °Al tti rlent, accompanied by the King, and Ferdinand 'ilt t fer from his presence, casting to the earth that 4 1 .„, ° ,,, k uighthood which is the badge of his dishonour, Igh t — king that sword with which he had heretofore \ll. king that in the cause of his ungrateful sove hi he acting of Duprez throughout this scene was f ie , ( lbly ,„nt• The struggle between love and du t y was Iliq7 ll eated, and there was something very beauti rk manner of throwing himself into the arms of o o Ala 'appealing, as it were, to religion to fortify thek i execution of that duty which he owed to him eltiZses king refuge from the miseries whi ch 0ver ,11441: nitu in the calm and quiet cloister , from which Ni; °l Therly been so - eager to escape. The bu rde n F 3, act falls almost entirely upon him, and nobly losustain it. The beautiful opening scena in kster was given with the most exquisite V There w as a holy calm, the calm of despair, in t4f4, pie of entering the chapel to take the vows; and vis . 1 he was as it were dead to the world, when Ni t again seeks him, and his former love was gra- Net.awakened, there was a subdued tenderness about Ittli tt l a i g that was most pathetic. His Ferdinand is a ttro,, i ` ri ttroph, and we are only sorry that he can ap ref,7l twice more in this character. As a whole we ' 4 lli ti l t even to his Arnold. His reception was most 41 `1, 48t ic• The house was crowded to the ceiling for e • the rising of the ST. JAMRS'S THEATRE. ,Itad FRENCH PLAYS. Albert is an artiste in the highest sense of kNi r • She is a delineation of character. She two pieces last evening, in characters of about `lll", 3i te a nature as can well be imagined ; but still "Itracters In the first, Un Secret, she is it w b.. ife of a . baker ; she has been discovered ' let 7th a young inan—her husband accuses L 'llt,, l afidelity—circumstances seem to prove her ic• ' e t still she preserves her secret. and it is kkr ti l l lt l i l her husband insists on a separation that she s , B ita that the young man is the son of one to ' 4 t , ,„",_ e, in early life, had been under great'obliga :*g;'"o had been stamped with infamy, and reduced t 4 " a rY, by the loss of a portfolio containing a large tl / 4 1 q al k , 'lacy, which had been found by a person who Itb,rr r opriated it to his own use, and that, to save ILktroott from infamy, and at the same time to make a to the young man who had been.his victim, ZIT' sold her jewels, had sought i nterv i ews "' II ; • and had exposed herself to those 4 1 , 1 4 . 80 spicions 9 from the effect of which she 9. l4i ti " r e ling. That person, whom she had thus screened Ift /1 1 ; 4ra Y at the risk of losing her fair fame, was the ox en who had sought to convict her of dishonour— rg rl husband. Nothing could be finer than the *tq ci t ,... t Madame Albert throuhout this trying scene. tra • and trage dy of the highest order. th e tragedy, • appeared I,lllq vulgar ond piece, Une Dame de I' Empire, she • 4 e wife of one of Napoleon's Generals, who ti tt n raised from the ranks. The General is a cou:ourite with the Emperor, and his vulgar wife is ro.„ se Pled by all the ancienne noblesse who are ▪ 11 3 of basking in the sunshine of the Imperial Co urt. ri t ; Pt the audience in a continual roar by her and her vulgarisms, while she exhibited at I,_!ltime such strong good sense, andsuch t horou g h rtedness, that it was impossible not to respect Nd I,' feeling which no one entertained f o r the re ut selfish beings who seemed so horrified at her `tllt 4 •Y; It was the combat of nature with art , and tr l umphed. She was called for at the fall of the k k r - ' and loudly applauded. - The house was exceed !? ell attened; not o the pit andwere crowded. CrCONNELL IN LIVERPOOL. te tj, ll ? the following correspondence, which has taken L . 47 t leen Rathbone and Mr. O'Connell, it will N IL ~,tnat a public meeting of the Reformers of Liver ▪ '" A be held, in the course of the present week, at ,le% k„ Iwtneatre, to express sympathy towards the rN etlt Ireland, and that the Hon. Gentleman will be Ot t the occasion lk o slty " Liverpool, 19th March, 1844. -ear Sir,—At a respectable private • some meet i t su e of the leading Reformers o f Liver likt,Yof was determined to take the opportn ,,l, ti t ,l° . ar passing through Liverpoof to have a .public r, t 'llgi' e xpressive of our de ep sympathy with the n f Ireland, and to protest against the violation ' A:i' c Lastitutional rights of the subject in the conduct p ro s tate trials in Ireland, to request that you would . th e -vat at that meeting, proposed to be in the evening, 14 ttt Aaa Phitheatre. I am desired respectfully to re ai~reayoh 0-:r Consent to be present at the meeting, and 1,44 u s ing us to be informed, at your early conve i3let You kindly consent, to say what day you can . ntr, I n Liverpool.—l have the honour to be, with t• e , s Peet, your faithful servant, 'D RATHBONE, Chairman of the Meeting. ' O'Connell, Esq." OtY" London, 20th March, 1844. D ear Sir — I had the honour to receive your 1 4, CI t 4`' t he lt t r n 19th instant, stating the desire of the lead- Vks; r ta t. ers of Liverpool to hold a meeting to ex iitOulicly, their deep sympathy . with . the wrongs of s l ll ti c , i ll i ncl . to protest against the violation of the con s• a , rights , of The subject in the conduct of the I t th i t 't Late trials ; and, also, desiring to know whe: kp ti t th"„ °111 d consent to be present at such meeting. I • eatest satisfaction •in announcing my re ady assent to be present at the intended meet rokill'ieed, it d e li g ht s me exceedingly to find that the s ets of Liverpool are ready to unite with so many, i t lii s i ll taerous classes of intelligent and enlightened ea in expressing their regret at the misgovern %lt* i t reland, and their deep disgust at the mockery 4 „ t 41 1 1, --I , ld justice exhibited at the late State trials in it,,Th e 4 PPY country. 11 1 , i i n onstrous nature of the accusation ; the pack (4's,ta • ' th e fraudulent abbreviation of the list of f L , Ne t!, „11 I, perhaps more than all, the one - sided cha r g e ; these facts have elicited from the lovers of England, as well as from the admirers of of jury trial, a unanimous expression of ab -1,tik,41 the entire system of partiality and . . delusion • t OY the minions of the present Administration , 7 ,recent trials. the p I " 4 Y , the 29th instant, will suit the eolivenienee , i ,.,.ketlernen who intend to hold the meeting, it shall 7 4 1 ,feir., If an earlier day be selected by them, I fi r b u l k a duty to adopt their day. Yo ". the honour to f be, very respectfully, my dear • althful and obliged servant, OP 11 " DANIEL O'CONNELL. athbone, Esq." pN ,„ it (IZtnnlittee of the Reform Association met at two ikry'" Saturday for the purpose of making the pron. +1 41 4 rugements, when, after some discussion , it ap htißiet it was impossible to obtain the use of the t 4 (Jr it ea tre on Friday evening, in consequence of the k i tt th,a_gees which are going on there at present , and it 'lajority o f th e C omm ittee were of opinion that Ir t , leg eeting was preferable to a morning one, as 'ter "able the operative classes to be present ifi .vrS than might otherwise be the case. lip se Circumstances, Thursday evening next was for holding the meeting.—Liverpool Albion. r, f , J••••1•11• thN,j 4 , T x LOUD WILLIAM Ihm—The Marquis t f i atie r ,;"'e has arr i ve d in town from Ireland, to attend lt . ` of his son, the late Captain Lord William Hill, 4,,,i ? or i r i al Scots Greys. The interment, at the urgent tl / 4 ,l"lee n , th e O ffi cers of that regiment, expressed through • 1 , 14, b -41 ed colonel commanding, Colonel Clarke, is to 'kf t ,: i k l tth,,,'" at Ipswich and not at the general family vault !q t . ): of - ,lNtead, Be;ks. It is a great consolation to the 1 4 k i i `ladiZ late lamented young officer, 'that his amiable 4' Itli,, il 'u•sPosition had rendered him an object of esteem no o aria h ad , the pleasure of his acquaintance, both in Eng ot,taiBreland. The Marchioness, who has borne the % l i d i "ed bv the receipt of the melancholy intelligence • 1.) 'ratite fortitude, came from Hillsborough Castle, 44 11-kteir. l, with the Noble Marquis, and is now staying titZk r , e > Hall, the Earl of Hillsborough's residence, near IV, to ci , e . where Lady Charlotte Chetwynd has also ar ts 4 ' exp r "„ n dcde with her mother The Earl of Hillsborough Sod to C s to Ipswich on Tues . clay, but on Thursday re 1t ti e ID t. ,1 4 1 , tat „,,„ Nette rd ZLACKFRIARS..BAIDGE.—This bridge V t i °fit ? morning the scene of self-destruction, in the ; 1 11 ( tk , Iv a • ° , l log woman who a short time after twelve ,; f ° ,userved to r u n down the eastern steps of the 'ritOrtn th e bridge and precipitate herself into the river. '14 4,4 1• Kis i nunediately g'ven and one of the watermen t,l3e-, eatebing holdpoi eworthy intrepidity ;bed • a ft er her and sue -4% 014 disa f it her ru cloak ; in this, however, gave PPeared. The waterman was now obliged dk r i e (1, 4 1 ° sl!allevr Water to recover his breath. He had no 4ft "" thanshe • N 4 ev , er and s _ in agam rose, and he immediately ,Pem. ide ntiv bringing her ashore. She was 1 7 :4 7 4i , , 3 ve. With the assistance of police-constable ittql.,t°r4veyee to another waterman, the poor creature I,4B,veetn`t /.° Mr. . Rose, surgeon, corner of Stam pL NI vs es li ackfriars-road, and a ft er ringing and knock rge was not t 4 14 s ktn ade l is at the door, the young man, who had gone anearance, .but they were informed that •,,en k ~„ at_liorne, and were referred to Mrll . leymott, hithdilected btamford.street, where on arriving, they i 7 !Ley we ° Con s vey her to St. Thomas's Hospital. Pe net 3.tltati_ re obliged to proceed, but nn the surgeons of Aon_ eliamining her, life was pronounced to be iNt, ll3 s ibl e„ . e t du ct of some persons in this case is highly la th e ": t hes deceased was not more than five , s % p e 'llsed 1 ,„,^ water, but nearly three quarters of an hour v . —Lore she was attended by a medical man. ti,n, le • "d dress of -1)1 the deceased is described as follow- NV "Lion ."5 " of age, five . feet high, dark hair . and 44. 1 41 e i • dress, h Is . )„,,, oak with velvet au-mourrung cotton gown, cloth and black silk bonnet, black c w at a io s u f . ound upon her person IMPERIAL PARLIAMEN'f. HOUSE OF LORDS, March 23. The Lola" CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'Clock. The Earl of BESBOROUGIT presented a petition from the Dissenters of Derby, praying that so much of the poor-law which authorised the payment of sa laries to Protestant clergymen attending in union workhouses, might be repealed. Petitions against the unions of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor were presented by the Bishops of LICHFIELD and BAN'GOR. LUNATIC POOR IN IRELAND. Lord MONTEAGLE gave-notice that, on Thurs day, he should move for certain correspondencewhich the Irish Government had entered into on the sub ject of lunatic asylums in Ireland. LABOUR OF FEMALES. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the men employed in Short's iron works, in the county of Lanark, praying that females might be allowed, under certain restrictions and modifications; to resume their labour in the iron and stone„, works in Scotland. The Noble Lord said these females, owing to the intervention of the Legislature had been deprived of their only means of subsistence. He would never look upon the inevitable decrees of Providence as oppressions on the part of man ; and, therefore, he would never be a party to anything which, under the semblance of humanity, in flicted greater evils on the labouring population of this country than they were at present suffering. Not a few of the many occupations in which opera tives were engaged, but were quite as deserving of legislative interference as those in the factories. Many years ago he applied to that eminent man, Sir Samuel Romilly, to take charge of a Bill on this subject in the other House, but that great and good man refused to interfere, saying that labour should not be subjected to such legislative restrictions. Let those who say those restrictions should be alone placed upon manufactures, go into the agricultural districts, and there see the men growing prematurely old at 40, and decrepit at 50, and they would change their opinions. Would any Noble Lord or Hon. Member in the other House consent to have a law which would prohibit their coachmen from driving them to a ball or rout, and then waiting until five o'clock in the morning to the certain injury of his health, or to prevent a child from being taken at the age of seven years, and starved and sweated, in order that at the age of twenty years he might be able to ride a race ? The question was, whether ten hours' work was to be paid for by twelve hours' work. Some said that Parliament could prevent the wages from being lowered in the same ratio as the hours of work. " 0 lepidum caput r Those who now advocated this measure would find out their error eventually, and that the best friends of the poor were those who did not restrict their industry.—(Hear, hear.) If Parliament legislated for one class of labourers they must do so for another. Those men who said that Parliament could legislate so as to give twelve hours' wages for ten hours' work did not know what they were talking about. Such men were more dan gerous than the hypocrites themselves. After a few words from the Marquis of NOR MANBY, the petition was laid on the table. The Marquis of NORMANBY presented a peti tion, praying that Parliament would prohibit the en listment of boys, under fourteen years of age, into the army from union workhouses. THE CASE OF MARY MILLER. The Bishop of EXETER rose to move for copies of all correspondence from the Poor-law Commis sioners, with respect to the case of Mary Miller, who hung herself in the Penzance Union. He said this unfortunate female's moral character had not been impugned, and having applied to the union for relief, she was admitted, when the master, instead of placing her in the probationary ward, ordered her to be confined •in the refractory ward, or, in other words, put her in prison. After being in the workhouse for some time, she succeeded in procuring a situation out of the house as a do mestic servant, but was unable to keep it, and conse, quently was again compelled to apply to the work house. She was subjected to the same treatment, although, being rather superstitious, she begged and prayed that she might not be confined in this cell, or if so she would commit some desperate act. Her entreaties were in vain, and she was again placed in it. After some time, she succeeded in effecting her escape into the women's sleeping ward, where she got into bed along with another female; as soon as the master was informed of this, he entered the room, where a great number of females were in bed, and com pelled this Wretched woman to get up and dress her self, when he dragged her down stairs, and with the assistance of three other persons, dragged her across the yard without her shoes ; and after inflicting several violent blows upon her, threw her head long into the cell, which he locked. In the morning, a female pauper went to him and told him that Miller had hung herself, and his answer was let her hang. Another application was made to him with the same result ; but upon the third female calling upon him, and saying she was sure the unfortunate women was dead, he proceeded to the cell when he found her quite dead. Col.Wa.de examined into the circumstances of this case, and he made a representation to the Com missioners in London respecting it, and they imme diately sent down a peremptory order for the dis missal of the master and mistress. The guardians refused to comply with that order, and they addressed a memorial to the Commissioners, entreating them to allow the man to remain in his situation. The Com missioners then and more strongly than before, ex pressed their reprobation of the conduct of the master, and peremptorily insisted on his removal, and he was then removed ; but his removal was attended with a vote of thanks from the board of guardians by whom he had been appointed. If those papers were pro duced he (the Bishop of Exeter) would pledge his veracity as to the accuracy of the circumstances he had just related. Lord WHARNCLIFFE said there was no objec- tion on the part of the Government or the Com missioners to produce these papers but he did not think, after the statement of the Right Rev. Prelate, that any benefit would result from their production. The Bishop of EXETER said that, if he knew that the present board of guardi ins were not the same in dividuals as those during whose tenure of office the circumstance which he had related had occurred, he would not press his motion. Lord WHARNCLIFFE said that more than one half of the present board had been elected since the occurrence took place. After a short conversation the motion was withdrawn. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said that some time ago the Right Rev. Prelate (the Bishop of Exeter) had brought a charge against the same board of guardians with respect to the appointment of a chaplain to the particular union to which the Right Rev. Prelate had referrel. In answer to that charge the board of guardians had put themselves in communication with the Commissionens in London, and the result was a full vindication on their part. Now he thought it would be but justice in the Right Rev. Prelate to move for the production of that cor respondence. The Bishop of EXETER hoped the Noble Mar quis would himself move for the production of these papers. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE then moved for copies of all communications made to and from the Poor-law. Commissioners, respecting the appointment of a chaplain to the poor-house, Penzance. The motion was 'agreed to. Messengers from the Commons brought up certain Bills, which were read a first time. The Duke of BUCCLEUCH presented a petition from Caithness against any alteration in the corn-laws. The House then adjourned. ROUSE OF COMMONS, March 25. ! parish, against the contemplated amendments in the Poor-laW Act. Mr STRUTT presented a petition from the Dis senters of Derby, praying that the chaplains of union workhouses might not be paid out of the rates, and that nonconformists might be at liberty to appoint their own chaplains in workhouses. : Sir J. Y. BULLER presented a petition from workmen employed in the silk throwing business, 1 praying that manufactures in silk might not be sub jected to the operation of the Factories Bill. Mr. O'CONNELL presented several petitions from places in Ireland, praying for (as we understood) the repeal of the legislative union. Mr. HUME presented a petition from the Scottish Central Board, for securing . the rights of professors, praying that all the restrictions on the professors of the Scottish Universities might be removed. Colonel RUSHBROOKE presented a petition from , Bury St. Edmunds, and twenty-six parishes in Suf . folk, in favour of the protection of agriculture. NOTICES OF MOTION—GWALIOR. Mr. MACAULAY gave notice that he should, soon after Easter, submit to the House resolutions touchingthe late transactions in the State of Gwalior. The Right Hon. Gentleman said he gave the notice thus early in order that her Majesty's Ministers might, if they thought it desirable, lay on the table before that time any documents which might appear to them likely to elucidate the subject. It was not his own intention to move for any such documents, as he conceived that he had already, from authentic sources, the means of judging of the transactions which had occurred. On the motion of Mr. WYSE, the petition from the members of the Repeal Association, praying in quiry into the late State prosecutions in Ireland, was ordered to be printed with the Votes. Dr. BOWRING gave notice of his intention to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham), whether it was his intention to propose, during the present session, any measure for the re dress of Welsh grievances ? Mr. HUME gave notice that, before the House went into Committee on the Commons Inclosure Bill, he should move that the Bill be read that day six months ; also, that on going into Committee on the Coroners' Bill, he would move to continue the charge at 9d. per mile as before. POOR-LAW AMENDMENT ACT. Mr. FERR AND, seeing the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary for the Home Department, in his place, begged leave to ask whether it was the intention of the Right Hon. Gentleman to proceed that evening with the Committee on the Poor-law Amendment Act, or not ? Sir J. GRAHAM said that the Committee stood upon the Orders Of the. Day for that evening, but it was his intention to move that the order should be postponed till after Easter. SLAVE TRADE. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. Mr. T. BATESON took the oaths and his seat fc;r the county of Londonderry, in the room of his brother, deceased. Mr. BROTHERTON and Sir H. DOUGLAS presented petitions against the Liverpool Docks Bill. The Blackburn and Preston Railway Bill was read a second time. HARROWGATE AND KNARESBOROUGH RAILWAY. Mr. LAWSO 4 N moved the second reading of this Bill. young persons in factories 112 had to sate, in reply, that lie had found in his dice a Bill introduced by .Alr. E. Maul' upOn the subject, and that h e proposed to bring in thatßill with some alterations and modifications." I also was asked if I proposed to make some alte rations in the hours of labour, and I replied it was not my intention, on the part of the GOvernmeot, to propose any such regulation. I now, then, beg the House to observe that, in the very first session of the present Parliament, and almost on the first day of that session, I gave this answer to the question put to me. I -have read this not for the purpose of taunting any person, ibut I have read it, Sir, for the purpose of showing that, as in 1833 and in 1839, so also in 1842, 1, for myself in dividually, firmly adhered to the opinion that the limitation of adult labour was inexpedient, and on the part of my colleaguesthat they had come to a similar determination.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") I will now proceed to discuss the three possible courses that are. open to us. The first involves the question of a compromise for a limitation of labour to eleven hours. I am quite prepared to admit that I do not go the length of those who may suppose that it is the duty of a government to carry every thing with . a high hand (so we understood the Right Hon. Baronet, whose meaning, from the lowness of his tone, it was most difficult at times to catch) ; on the contrary, I do say, that there are many occasions, especially one involving, such a question as this, when a compromise is not only . justifiable, but expedient. But when it is either justifiable or expedient there are two points which are indispensa ble. These are, that the point to be conceded shall be a safe one—(bear, hear) —and if there is to be a compromise that there shall be a fair prospect of its being adhered to. Seeing that among a great body of those lion. Gentle men who usually support her Majesty's Government a division on this occasion unhappily exists, and look ing dispassionately at the question, I am bound to state on the part of her Majesty's Cabinet that the compromise to which I have adverted, appears to us not to hold out any prospect of utility. I do not wish to argue the question unnecessarily; but still, to vindicate myself, I must touch on some prominent points. I bold that, in the first place, a compromise would be most injurious to the manufacturers.— (Hear, hear.) A change from twelve to eleven hours seems in itself to sound like a small matter; but I beg the House to consider that when applied to machinery, it is absolutely no less than the destruction of its use for three or four weeks in the year.--(Hear, hear.) It is a most important matter, and I have received since I last addressed the House circumstantial information, from the highest quarter, informing me that in the cotton and woollen districts—particularly in those districts where cot ton machinery is more actively employed—a re duction of the hours of labour from twelve to eleven, at those times when trade is brisk, and when the demand is steady, and when the manu facturer may be able to make up for the time when he worked at a loss, is a matter touching not only the profits of the manufacturers, but the permanent con tinuance of machinery.--(Loud cries of " Hear, hear ") It is a most important consideration because, as I mentioned before, the prosperity of manufactures is, in my opinion, bound up with the prosperity of the State. This being my belief, my deliberate judgment Aed me to the conclusion that this diminution of one hour of adult labour would end in bitter disappointment to the working classes them selves.—(Hear, hear.) a I am quite satisfied, though it would b tedious to repeat the argument now—l am quite satisfied that in proportion to the reduc tion of time there must be a corresponding and im mediate reduction of wages—(Hear, hear)—and more than this, that unless the master manu facturers submitted to a diminution of profit, this diminution of profit must be added to the dimunition of wa g es coincident with the dimu nition of time, and, as I before stated, notwithstand ing the amended declaration of the Hon..and Learned Member for Liskeard (Mr. C. Buller), my firm belief is that this reduction of wages cannot fairly be esti mated at less than from 15 to 22 per cent.—(Hear.) Now, then, if I have proved it is dangerous to the master, and would end in disappointment to the work man, I ask myself is it possible that a measure having those two effects can fail to be dangerous to the State. My own opinion is decided, and it is also the opinion of my colleagues that any measure which affects such as those I have adverted to is dangerous in the extreme. I am quite satisfied the workmen areunder a delusion on this point, and that they do not anticipate such a reduction in wages, as I have no doubt must be the inevitable result of limiting the time of work. What would be the first effect of their disappointment. It would be, I am persuaded; that they would stand out resolutely against the reduction of wages as unnecessary and unjust. Why, at this very moment, unless I am misinformed, with twelve hours' work, with a high rate of wages, and improvement in trade, there are many branches of workmen dissatisfied with the present rate of wages ; and I have no doubt if we come to effect a legislative reduction of wages, the effect of the consequent disappointment of the workmen would be a very general strike throughout the manufacturing districts, which, concurring with other things, would lead to fatal and most inexpli cable confusion..—(Hear, hear.) I hope that nothing which may fall from me may be considered in the nature of disrespect to as y parties, but I have aduty to discharge, and will discharge it; but I must say, with all respect, that the measure of the Noble Lord is dangerous in its nature, and that, dangerous as I conceive it to be, the arguments by which it is supported are still more dangerous.—(Hear, hear.) I do not know whether the gentleman who used the argument is present, but I heard an Hon. Gentleman on Friday night say that a larger diminution in wages was not detrimental to the working classes. It was said that there were moral wages, which were more important to them than even money wages, and that high wages led to immorality and improper conduct on the part of the workmen ; and even when they were reduced starvation was not possible in this country. Now, those are dangerous arguments. It is dangerous to say that there cannot be too:large a legislative reduction in the value of the only commodity which the working man possesses. But I cannot for one instant believe that the re duction will not he attended with deterioration in the labourers' moral condition. So far from benefiting his conduct, it is rather likely' to drive him to despair, and the commision of crime which he would not otherwise have the least desire to commit; and it is no consolation to the Legislature or to the unhappy individual whose suffering, under a legislative loss in the value of the only commodity which he has for sale,—and undoubtedly he has a perfect right to the free exercise of that commodity as he pleases—to tell that individual of the moral ad vantages of a reduction in his wages, and that there is a poor-law in this country which prevents the possibility of starvation. I pass on to another, as I think, hardly less terrifying argument. I allude to the argument that we have now arrived• at a new social state—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—that there is to be a departure from all fixed principles which have hitherto guided the wisest men in legislating upon this subject, and that we are to meet a new social state by a new scheme of legislation in this matter. (Heal', hear.) The opinion has hitherto prevailed that interference with the free market of labour is most dangerous, and can only be justified in very strong exceptions. That rule is now to be reversed ; legislative inter ference is to be general, and there is to be no limit to that interference, excepting not even the necessity of the case but the possibility of the case.—(Hear, hear.) Now, I say, that if that doctrine is to pre vail, it would., be much better for this House not to deal • with the complicated question of the maximum of labour, but at once to establish the minimum of wages.—(Hear, hear.) I say that a more dangerous case was never opened to the view of a legislative assembly.--(Hear, hear.) I have seen within the last eight and forty hours the use of a very strong expression to which, on the whole, I must give my' assent. I do not think it is too much to say that this is on the whole the commencement of a Jack Cade system of legislation.—(Cheers from all parts of the House.) Now, I will just notice one other argument which, I must say, fills me with alarm. I allude to the doctrine that it is desirable to take this step with a view of checking intense competition. — (Hear.) Now, competition in this matter, inasmuch as it is the great regulator of produce and price, if coincident with profits, promotes the interest of the community. But I contend that this legislation so far from tending to diminish competition, must have the directly opposite effect.—(Hear, hear.) If the demand in the market be the same, and the work to be done be the same, the inevitable effect of your diminishing , the power of executing it, will be that fresh factories must be built and fresh capital sunk in machinery. The sinking of capital is itself no small evil, but if you prevent the running of machinery fur twelve hours, the effect of that will be the shifting of the burden to the working-classes; that fresh machinery will be built; that needless out lays will be ineurred that there will be a fresh de mand for the labour of young persons and children; that population will be stimulated, profits ulti mately fall, and the condition of the working- PlaSses permanently and hopelessly injured.—(Hear.) According Le my views, which I win s h or tly state, I would say that I cannot conceive that it ever can be conducive to human happiness to impose limits upon human industry,---(Chcers.) I think that if it ever appears to be the interest of the State to reduce the profits upon capital—to restrict industry at home—to give premiums upon foreign competition—(Cheers) — and to impose penalties upon the employment of machinery, and even on the employment of Bri tish capital in manufactures—these objects would be effected fly tl pr9P9 4 .1!1° 11 . qf my NW() Friend.— (Hear, hear.) I have now dealt with the first part of the subject—l hope not at too great length. Wo sum Sir R. PEEL, seeing the Noble Lord, the Member for Tiverton, in his place, begged to ask him whe ther he intended to bring on his motion on that sub ject on Thursday next? Lord PALMERSTON said, if he could not get precedence on an early day after Easter, he would bring it on on the day for which it was fixed. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Sir R. PEEL gave notice' that, on Wednesday week, he should move that the House, at its rising do adjourn for the usual period, till Monday week following, for the Easter holidays. Lord J. MANNERS asked at what period after Easter the Government would proceed with the Poor;. law Bill. Sir J. GRAHAM said he would, after Easter, give notice of the day. FACTORIES BILL. Sir J. GRAHAM in moving the Order of the Day for going into Committee on the Factories Bill, said—lt now becomes my duty to refer to the Order of the Day respecting the Factories Bill. In moving that Order of the Day, I shall, under the present circumstances, trespass on the indulgence of the House for a short time. In the observations which I feel it is my duty to address to the House, I beg leave most emphatically, on the part of myself and my colleagues, to express that de ference which, as a constitutional principle, we owe to the decision of this representative assembly. That deference I beg to express for the decision of the House of Commons, on the part of the servants of the Crown. I only know one duty which is on their part paramount to it; it is this --that no Minister of the Crown, even in obedience to the declared wish of the House of Commons, should make himself responsible for any act, or adopt any policy which in his conscience and sober judgment, and after mature deliberation, he be lieves to be inconsistent with the ,well-being and prosperity of the country.—(Cheers.) I know no other limit than this to the deference due to the decision of this House, but that limit must be religiously adhered to.—(Hear, hear.) Now, in the interval that has passed since we last met and discussed this question, I and my colleagues have maturely deliberated on the position in which this question is placed. It is right that I should shortly recal the recollection of the House to what has occurred. On Monday last, in concert with me, the Noble Lord, the Member for Dorsetshire, took a discussion in an early stage of the Bill, the interpretation clause, on which he distinctly raised the question, whether the hours of labour of young persons and women should be restricted to ten hours or twelve? This was virtually the question submitted to the de cision of the House. I, on the part of the Govern ment, stated the importance of maintaining the exist ing law, which imposed no restriction beyond twelve hours. The Noble Lord, with perfect consistency, and in accordance with the course which he has pur sued for the last twelve years, raised the question that ten hours should be substituted for twelve. The division on that occasion, in the first instance, was on the question which had been virtually raised if twelve hours should be retained. The Noble Lord proceeded to a division and carried his point, which was, that instead of twelve hours, the time of labour should be restricted to ten hours, by a majority of eight. Unwilling that any surprise should take place, I immediately gave notice, on the part of the Government, of our inten tion again to appeal to the Committee on this impor tant matter, on the Bth clause being proposed, when the matter would come in a more substantive form before them. That question was deli berated on on Friday last. I proposed that twelve hours should be the limit on that occasion, and her Majesty's Government were defeated by a ma jority of tliree. My Noble Friend then proposed that the blank should be filled up with the words " ten hours." Her Majesty's Government resisted that proposition, and succeeded by a majority of eight. The effect of these various divisions, as the Bill now stands, has been to involve the measure in inextricable confusion. It has been recorded in the interpretation clause as the opinion of this House that ten hours should be the limit of the labour of young persons— Mr. HINDLEY—Ten hours and a half.—(Loud cries of " Order" from all parts of the House.) Sir J. GRAHAM—I trust the Hon. Gentleman will let me proceed without interruptioi—(Cheers)— if I mistake anything he will have an opportunity when I sit down of rising to correct me, but I hope he will permit me to proceed with my statement without interruption—(Cheers)—l stated that the effect of . the amendment on the interpretation clause is virtually to record the opinion of a Committee of this House that ten hours should be the limit of the period of labour for young persons. On Friday the whole proposition was more fully debated, and the Com mittee negatived the resolution which they had for merly affirmed. These are circumstances which demand, and which have received, the most attentive considera tion, of myself and of my colleagues. In a matter of this kind it is of the utmost importance that we should deliberately and dispassionately consider this subject, and I am now able to announce to the House the decision which her Majesty's present con fidential advisers have come t.) on this subject. There are three courses, as it appears to her Majesty's Ministers, which they may pursue in the present state of affairs. Any course that is to be taken by the present Government must be simple, firm, and intelligent ; and looking at it in that light, there are only three courses which you may pursue. The first would be—since the House has, at different times, by votes, affirmed that the hours of labour shall not ex ceed twelve, and that they will not limit them to ten — it appears that within those two points, some point, as a matter of compromise, must be come to, And I will, for the sake of the argument, suppose that eleven hours will be satisfactory' to all parties. Now that is one course. Another course her Ma jesty's Ministers may adopt will be to remove from the Order-book the Order of the Day for the further consideration of this Bill, for the purpose of expres sing their avowed opinion of not making any altera tion in the existing law. And the third course which they may adopt will be to rescind the Order of the Day, and to ask leave of the House to produce a new Bill, embracing such points and re gulations as have either received the assent of the House, or are likely to receive it. I will now, with the permission of the House, discuss these three pro positions. In the first case, I think it desirable to clear up what has passed On the subject since her Majesty's present Ministers became responsible in the matter. I wish to call to the recollection of the Howe that previous to the commencement of the present session, my Noble and Learned Friend, the Member for Dorsetshire, announced, in his place in the House, that he understood that her Majesty's Govern mentiAt factories rn. softut ha ret Glovfoovtrwsli7lipyveo asked s h c u we r hours' t ' hmw respect s k ;e .. hcatt O tow n ta t hs h e were not prepared to depart from the regulations b t h oi nu F tre e ni b n: factories, and I will react what was the answer I then made. " W the 7th 'With respect t t . illy it i qps ~put him_ by his Hon. Friend, whether the Govern ment intended to bring in any measure on 'the Alb - - ject of the regitlation of the labour of children and Mr. BECKETT DENNISON having moved, as an amendment, that it be read again that day six months, The Hon. Mr. CAVENDISH seconded the motion. Mr. FERRAND supported the original motion, because he thought such a line would be of much benefit and convenience to the inhabitants of the lo cality. Dr. BOWRING thought it would be well if the Bill were now to be read a second time, in order that the House might have an opportunity of considering it in Committee. Mr. JAMES denounced the whole matter as a job, and trusted the House would reject the Bill. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, when the nnmbers were — For the second reading For the amendment Majority in favour of the second reading —7 The Bill was then read a second time. SEVERN NAVIGATION BILL. On the motion of General LYGON, the Severn Navigation Bill was read a third time and passed. On the motion of Mr. AINSWORTH, the Bolton and Preston Railway Bill was read a second time. UNIVERSAL SUFFRAGE. Lord DUNCAN presented a petition from Bath, signed by 1,400 persons, in favour of universal suf frage. Captain ROUS presented a petition from the churchwardens and other inhabitants of St. James's TEE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, MARCH 26, 1814. up, in one word, I thin!: tint a compromise for eleven hours would be da.trerous to tke State, and inadmis sible in policy.—(llear, hear.) I come now, Sir, to the second branch of the compromise. What would be the chance of itspumanent endurance? To turn first to his Noble Friend the Member for Dorset shire, who, with the most honourable zeal, and the most humane intentions, has firmly hered to the prosecution of this _object, which he thinks indispensable fn• the happiness of the working classes.—(Hear.) My Noble Friend has excluded himself from that power which is an object of honour able ambition to every man in this kingdorn.—(Hear.) He has made that sacrifice.' He has placed himself— I will not say in hostile collision, but in opposition to the political friends whom he respects and esteems. —(Hear, hear.) But, Sir, we must consider that my Noble Friend is not only the able, but the principal champion of this cause ; and in the most solemn manner, in speech and in writing —years ago —two months ago, and on Friday night last—using the strongest language in the most solemn manner — he declared that he would never rest until he obtained a Ten Hours' Bill. lam satisfied, then, that the matter would not stop there. The House has re ceived a solemn warning from the Honourable Gentleman (the Member for Oldham) who is se cond to my Noble Friend in this object, that if a Ten Hours' Bill were to pass to-morrow it would not satisfy him, and that he never would be satisfied with anything less than an Eight Hours' Bill.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) But, then, Sir, I hold in my hand what, perhaps, is more important still, the de claration of the delegates of the operative cotton spinners of Manchester—this resolution, which was passed this morning, is to this effect :—" That, notwith standing the defeat of Lord Ashley, brought about by the official influence of the government, never to relax in our exertions until a Bill is carried through Parliament ; and that we will avail ourselves of every advantage which constitutional means afford, to prevent the employment of children and young per sons in factories, for a period beyond eight hours daily. I say at once that, as between the proposals for eleven hours and ten hours, if I were di iven to make a com promise in this matter, considering the circumstances 1 have adverted to, I think it would be more wise on the part of the Government, and of this House, in the hope of arriving at a durable settlement, or a probable permanent arrange ment of this question, to go at once the length of a Ten Hours', than of an Eleven H ours ' Bill.—(H ear , hear.) I, therefore, discard the compromise on the part of the Government ; and I now advert to the second course which it is open to the Government to pursue—namely, to ask the permission of the I louse to discharge this Order of the Day, with a view of allowing the existing law to remain in full force unaltered. That would be a possible course, one which, as com pared with the compromise I have been discussing, would be a practical course ; but still, in the progress the Bill has already made through the Com mittee, several important amendments have re ceived the sanction of the House. The limitation of the hours of the labour of children—that portion of the working classes which, as a general principle, was the most entitled to the protection of the Legislature, —with respect to children, almost by common con sent, an important change has been effected. The duration of their labour has been limited to eight hours. Then with - respect to the education of the children in the manufacturing districts—of which I will not despair —a most important regula tion has been sanctioned by the Committee in the provision that they shall not work both in the forenoon and the afternoon of the same day. I am, therefore, not disposed to throw away the advantages of these new arrange ments that have already been sanctioned by the Com mittee, or of the other arrangements contained in the present Bill, and which I am confident will receive the assent of the House: lam now brought to the third course, which I before stated I should be brought to discuss—that her Majesty's Govern ment might withdraw the present Bill, and ask leave to' bring in another, not to repeal the existing law or to .re-enact it, but for the purpose of amending the existing law and introducing such amendments and modifications as had already re ceived the sanction of the House, or were likely to receive its general assent. I am bound in frankness to tell the House that, as we have resisted, so we shall con tinue to resist, any departure from the limit of twelve hours.—(Hear, hear.) This declaration may not appear consistent with that respect which I have said ought to be shown for the decisions of this House. But if we could believe that we had forfeited the confidence of this House ; that it was possible for the Government to give effect to the prin ciple of the Ten Hours' Bill, upon which a small ma jority of the House has decided, our course would be clear. But it is our duty steadily to pursue the course I have intimated as the one we shall adopt. I am not aware that I have omitted to state any. thing that my colleagues have deemed it right that should state. At all events, I hope that the House will acknowledge that I haveroncealed nothing ; and I hope that I have said notbini , that is inconsistent with the 'profound respect which 'I feel bound to pay to the decision of a majority of this House on whichever side it may be found.—(Opposition cheers.) If the House will permit me to conclude with a motion, I ought, perhaps, to move that the Order of the Day for the resolving ttself into Committee on the Factories Bill be read for the purpose of being discharged.—(op positiori cheers.) If, however, any Hon. Gentlemen should think that I am taking the House by surprise —(Hear, hear)—if any Hon. Gentleman should feel that impression—(Hear, hear)—l shall feel it my duty to ask that the Order of the Day be postponed to Friday, for the purpose of giv ing the House time to consider what course it may be advisable to pursue.—(Loud Opposition cheers.) I move the Order of the Day for the House resolv ing itself into Committee on the Factories Bill be now read. Mr. Brotherton rose, but there were loud calls for Lord Ashley. During the confusion mes sengers from the Lords brought up certain Bills. When the messengers withdrew as the calls for Lord Ashley still continued, Mr. Brotherton gave way, and Lord ASHLEY rose, and said that he thought there could be no doubt but that the most reasonable and fair course to take, would be that which had been suggested by the Right Hon. Gentleman, to allow the House until Friday, to consider the determina tion to which they would come. He (Lord Ashley) had been taken by surprise, and although his resolution had been by no means shaken .as to the eventual course which he should take, he had not decided what course it would at present be prudent for him to adopt. It was wholly unnecessary for him to follow the Right Hon. Gentleman through the whole of his able statement, for the subject had been already fully discussed.—(Loud cheers.) Every one had already made up his opinion on it—(Cheers)--and not only had the subject been fully discussed, but the question had been solemnly decided.--(Loud cheers.) That great assembly, in three successive divisions, had affirmed the principle, that twelve hours' labour was not to be endured, and therefore, whatever might be the result of the proceedings of Friday next, he would make a solemn appeal to the House to stand by its de cision. —(Hear, hear.) Upon that decision he would rest ; because of this, he was convinced that it was not necessary for him, or any person whatever, to deal with this subject by any further argument. He regretted that his Right Hon. Friend the Secre tary of State for the Home Department had introduced into this discussion observations which, but for him, would never have been thought of again, and were forgotten.—(Hear, hear.) He deplored that he should have made such a statement, as that this was the beginning of Jack Cade legislation.—(Loud cheers.) He (Lord Ashley) would not repudiate, nor would he be ashamed of the title.—(Cheers.) But he would ask that House what it was that gave birth to Jack Cade ? Was it not that the people were writhing under oppressions which they were not able . to bear, and, when smarting under these oppressions, they determihed•to take the law in their own hands?—(Cheers.) And that would be the case on the present subject, unless they took care how they legislated upon it.—(Hear.) And if for this they were to be told that they were rebels like Jack Cade, they would be only adding insult to in justice.—(Hear, hear.) As the Right Hon. Gentle man had said that he would postpone the question till Friday he would not detain the House further, and he would only repeat that he trusted, as this question had been solemnly decided upon three different occasions, that upon that decision Hon. Members would stand and would vote with him. Of this he could assure the House that he would never depart from the course which he had adopted upon this subject. . In that course he would be sup ported, as he had hitherto been, by that House. Lord HOWICK thought that the House could not with fairness and propriety decide upon the question at that time. But what was the course the Govern ment was now proposing to adopt? They were told by the Government that they would not listen to any compromise. They would neither adopt a Ten nor Eleven Hours' . Bill, notwithstanding their own inspectors had told them that twelve hours' labour was more than ought to be borne. The evidence of the highest medical authorities went me effect, and yet the Government t o ld them ld allow no red uc ti on . Wh a t did the t t h o e t y h e w s o a u Go vernment intend to do ? They had been de feated on this clause, . and how did they pro pose to take the decision ? Why, they took the extraordinary course of saying to the House if you choose to regulate labour to a greater extent than we approve of, then you shall not regulate at all.—(Cheers.) That was what the Government presumed to say to the House.—(Loud cheers.) At the present moment,. let it be recollected, there .was no chieck at all on the labour of women. The inspectors appointed by the Government had reported that a check • was ,Osolutely necessary— that worsen r, ho were not, in fact, their own masters, required and should have the same protection as children. Well, the Government said they would regulate this labour by confining it within the limit of twelve hours—the House said they would confine it to ten hours ; and then the Government said to these females, and to the House, you shall have no limitation nor re gulation at all.— (Cheers.) lie now suggested to his Noble Friend (Lord Ashley) that the course he should take on Friday night should be to resist the discharge of the order. If he allowed the Bill which had now made such progress to be withdrawn. what would be the effect ? The Government would intro duce a new Bill still more objectionable in shape than the one now before the House—the Noble Lord (Ashley) would have to re-propose his clause, and if it were carried again, the Government would drop the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) If the Noble Lord (Ashley) meant to persevere, let him persevere on Friday next ; if he had diffi culties to encounter, rather let him meet them in the first instance than in the last. Let them rather go on with the Bill as it was than allow a new Bill to be introduced with all the disad vantages which the original proposers were anxious to avoid.—(Hear, hear.) He put this for his Noble Friend's consideration, and, at all events, when the motion was made to discharge the order for further considering the Bill, he, if he stood alone, would say " No" to it.—(Hear, hear.) Before he sat down he wished to correct a misstatement of the argument put by himself and his Hon. and Learned Friend, made by the Right Hon. Gentleman. The Right Hon. Gentle man, obviously alluding to what he (Lord H.) said, made him say that intense competition was at the bottom of the evil. That was not the argument he had used. What he had said was, that if intense Competition was the source of the evil, they could only get at it by widening the field of industry. He had said that intense competition gave a power to one or two individuals to adopt a system of carrying on great bran Ches of industry to which the great majority of persons engaged in them were, in their wishes, strongly opposed.—(Hear, hear.) He asked those who had listened to the able speech of the lion. Member for Liskeard (Mr. C. Buller), whether his arguments had not been perverted by the Right Hon. Gentlemen. His Hon. and Learned Friend had stated, and he (Lord Howick) believed had stated truly, that they had acted too long upon the principle of leaving these mat ters to themselves.—(Hear, hear.) lie entirely concurred with his Hon. and Learned Friend, and he thought the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite was of the same opinion, for the question between them and the Government was a matt& of detail—the number of the hours. The Right Hon. Baronet had said lust now that he could not conceive how it was conducive to human interest to limit human in dustry.—(Hear, hear.) Why, did not the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite propose to limit industry? In many of the factories they were at the present moment working fifteen hours per day. - Mr. FE R R AND—Eighteen hours. Lord HOWICK would not state more than fifteen hours; but did not the Right Hon. Gentleman pro pose to limit that time ? He thought that the House ought to resist the motion to discharge the order of the day. Mr. BROTHERTON had heard with very great regret the announcement of the Right lion. Baronet. Had he announced that it was the intention of the Government to consent to eleven hours, he believed it would have met with general concurrence. —(Hear, hear.) He did not yield to her Majesty's Government in anxiety to promote the commercial prosperity of the country.—(Hear, hear.) It was formerly customary for mills turned by water to work day and night ; but that custom had ruined the trade. Before factory legislation was commenced, the average time of working was seventy-seven hours; it was now sixty nine, yet no injury had been suffered. He did think that if her Majesty's Government had come forward with a good grace, and bowed to the decision of the House ; or if they had said " the House has de clared that it will neither have ten hours nor twelve hours, we therefore propose eleven hours as a medium," such conduct would have met with general satisfaction. He hoped they would even yet re-consider their decision.—(Hear.) Captain ROUS congratulated the House on the prospect of getting rid of this Bill. He had risen three times in vain during the first night's debate, for the purpose of condemning the policy which in terfered with self-government. In the first division he did not vote, but on the last night it appeared to him that a sort of party , spirit governed the votes, and therefore he came to the conclusion that he should vote for the Twelve Hours' Bill, as it appeared to him to be the lesser evil.—(Hear, hear.) In the first place he would observe, that whoever drew up this Bill, must be totally ignorant of the feelings both of the manufacturers and the workmen. — (Great laughter and cheers.) He had heard I-lon, and Right Hon. Gentlemen speak of the ex cesses of Jack Cade and of Wat Tyler, who killed a man for taking improper liberties with his daugh ter.—(A laugh.) But he (Captain Rous) believed that this Bill would be as great a grievance as those which caused the insurrections of Cade and Tyler. He looked upon the master manufacturers as being the most valuable men in the coun try. No men in the country deserved better; they did not spend their capital abroad in unprofita ble luxuries, but they employed it in endeavouring to promote industry at home, and giving employment to hundreds of thousands of the people. Nothing could be more mischievous than the interference of Govern ment with private individuals.—(Hear, hear.) Now, if the House of Commons was to tell him to give eight half holidays in the week to his servants, he would tell the House that he would see the House of Commons —(Hear, hear, and great laughter)— he would see them somewhere else first.—(Cheers, and great laughter.) The master manufacturers had also their feelings, and this meddling and interference with private affairs was attended with the greatest evils in all parts of the world. Look to those places where the Governments inter fered with trade and private affairs, and what were the consequences? In Sweden and Prusia the Government interfered with families even to the sending of the children to schools ; and, ac cording to Mr. Laing, there was three times the amount of crime in Sweden that there was in this country. Government had quite enough to do to look after their own proper business ; there was not one Government whose affairs were managed with proper economy. Were any private establishment to show such a contempt for economy, they would be bankrupt in three months.—(Hear, hear.) The same causes must produce the same effects; if they pursued the, same course as Sweden and Prussia, the same re sults would be produced. The diffusion of education among the people of the lowest condition only ren dered them unfit for their station. The Right lion. Baronet the Home Secretary had stated that the Noble Lord (Ashley) had refused a high seat on the Treasury bench. He could only say that if men of such tender and sensitive feelings were to carry on the Government, this smiling country would, before three years were over, become a desert.—(oh, oh, and laughter.) Such constant interference must be mischievous. If they went to ten hours, they' would go to eight, and where should they stop? The Noble Lord would make a most excellent Archbishop of Canterbury, but he would make a very bad statesman. He believed that the poor men, generally speaking, in this country were well looked after ; he believed that in that respect there was no country like England ; and nothing was more likely to make them miserable than Hon. Members and Noble Lords getting up on each side of the House, and making the statements they bad done.—(Hear, hear.) He believed there was more good among the labourers of this countr = y than any other upon the face of the earth, because if they had not, Noble Lords on that, and Honourable Members on the other side of the House, would drive them mad.—(Great laughter.) Mr. V. SMITH would not take three days to an swer the observations of the Right Honourable Baronet, although he had done so to answer his. He would explain to the House what he really had said. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that he (Mr. V. Smith) had asserted that the Poor-law would be the resource of those driven out of the factory, and that high wages were productive of immorality. Now, the Right Hon. Gentleman had most grievously misrepresented him. What he said was, that the poor-law was a provision for those poor people who could not possibly themselves obtain a subsistence. He had not said that crime was the consequence of high wages in the sense stated by the Right Hon. Baronet, but that high wages being disproportionate and unusual were generally the cause of dissipation to the recipients. The reason of this was, that high wages were generally conferred upon hard-workers, over exertion produced excitement, and excitement stimulated men to the use of strong liquor, and strong liquor led to immorality.—(Hear, hear.) That this was the sense in which he used the phrase " high wages," and he appealed to any Hon. Member who had heard him.—(Hear, hear, from the Tory Mem bers.) That such was the effect of high wages on thOse who received them., he appealed to any person conversant with the condition of the manufacturing districts, and to the Report of the Children's Employ ment Commission. In that report the Reverend Alexander Gilmour, mini3ter of the Presbyterian Congregation in Greenock, said that high wages would promote intemperance rather than comfort. Mr. Hall, of Wolverhampton, before the same Committee, stated that the best workmen were the oftenest drunk from the same reason ; he said such men were often a whole week together drunk. The Right Hon. Gentleman was unable to support his version of his (Mr, V. Smith's) speech by any report of it in any newspaper in the kingdom. Ile very much regretted the determination to which the Government had come—(Hear, hear)—and the thought the Right Hon. .:a t e-- . Gentleman would not in his cooler nio - olerii:, say tha an hour's labour a day less than at pyesent would be the ruin of the country, which sccmea, to be incon sistent with good sense and experience. —(1-lear.) Sir J. GRAHAM said he was veiST-' l scirryi aet Iron. Gentleman h a d f e lt hi mse lf b oun d to say thaile l ' aNY (Sir J. Graham) had put words into his mouth. No thing„ he could assure the !louse, was farther from his intention. He had taken a note of the Hon. Gentleinan's words at the time he spoke them, and he certainly did understand him to say that high wages were productive of immorality and vice in the factory dis tricts; and the report of the Hon. Gentleman's speech in the Morning Chronicle agreed with the notes which he had taken, and which he had stated to the House. The Right Hon. Baronet then proceeded to read the extract from the Morning Chronicle, but was inter rupted by 'cries of " Order" from the Opposition. The Right Hon. Gentleman appealed to the Speaker whether or not he was in order. It was a personal matter—it affected him personally—and as such he put it to the House 'whether he had not a right to explain and defend himself.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") -After reading the extract the Right Hon. Baronet said that although there was such a coin cidence between his statement and the report of the Hon. Gentleman's speech in the newspaper alluded to, still, as the Hon. Gentleman had disclaimed the observations in the sense in which they were under stood by him, be would of course give the Hon. Gentleman full credit for his explanation, and was quite willing to believe that he had misunderstood him. Sir ROBERT INGLIS was anxious, in a friendly spirit, to observe upon one phrase which had ben used by his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department. He said there were three courses which were open for the Govern ment to recommend to the House, and the Right lion. Gentleman maintained those three' courses in full possession of his faculties and temper—(A laugh) —recommended a particular course which he would not then stop to examine ; but he would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of her Majesty's Government, whether he considered the expres sion used by the Right Hon. Gentleman towards those Members on that side of the House who had supported the Noble Lord were just and proper. lie wished to know, whether the Right Hon. Gentleman and the Cabinet adopted the phrase " Jack Cade course of Legislation" used by the Right Hon. Gen tleman in reference to the twenty-three Members of that House who had been almost the consistent sup porters of the present Government since they came into office. He put the question to his Right Hon. Friend (Sir R. Peel), he need not use any offensive expression, nor apply any epithet nor say any thing which might engender bad feeling; but would sit down by asking if the Government adopted the ex pressions of the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State for the Home Department. Sir J. GRAHAM rose, apparently labouring under some excitement, and said—l used the phrase —(A pause)--T am answerable for it, and with sub mission to the House, I will answer the Right Hon. Gentleman, or, if he will allow me to call him so, my Right Hon. Friend. Notwithstanding the " friendly spirit"—(A laugh)—in which my Right Hon. Friend put the question, I must say that he did not act quite fairly in attempting to make the Cabinet responsible for my words, for my Right Hon. Friend very well knew that, for expressions used in the heat of debate by a member of the Cabi net, all the members of the Cabinet are not respon sible—none but the member of it who used them. That phrase does not affect, and has no reference to, any deliberations here or elsewhere. When I used the phrase; I distinctly stated that I had read it in a newspaper within forty-eight hours, and I adopted it. I hope the Right Hon. Gentleman will not carry the expression further than the words warrant. It was used in the heat of debate, and I did not mean any disrespect to my Right Hon. Friend, or any other Hon. Member.—(Hear, hear.) Sir R. INGLIS said the intimacy between him and the Right Hon. Baronet was of old standing ; and, in answer to his question, whether he would call him friend, he candidly answered that he hoped he would long call him so.—(Cheers.) His question was to the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government, who had not answered his question.-- (Laughter, in which Sir R. Peel joined.) Mr. BERNAL did not think the expres sion of his Right Hon. Friend (Sir J. Graham) should affiliate the Government in the phrase of which the Hon. Gentleman the Member for the University of Oxford complained. The Government were not to speak of the danger of invading the freedom of labour, and interfering with the hours of factory work. The principle had been acted upon forty years ago.- The door had been opened to this species of legislation forty years ago, in the Acts regarding parochial apprentices. The operative classes in the country would not be satisfied unless the measure of the Noble Lord were carried into operation. The Government had called for reports; those reports showed the necessity . for legislation. Medical certi ficates, and the opinions of those best entitled to con fidence, clearly demonstrated the absolute need of ParliamentAry interference.—(Hear, hear.) Lord SANDON wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman if the alterations proposed by him would affect adult female labour ? Sir J. GRAHAM would give a decided answer to the question of his Noble Friend. After the course sanctioned by the House in Committee, he was pre pared to say that the Government would not include in its limitations adult female labourers, putting them on the same footing as infant labourers had been al ready placed upon, Mr. HINDLEY said he had taken a great deal of pains during the last fifteen years to investig,we this subject. If the working-men got a Twelve Hours' Bill by their own efforts, they would not rest satis fied with it, but proceed farther. Mr. FERRAND said—l rise to notice a remark which the Right Hon. the Secretary for the Home . Department made—l allude to his application of the words " Jack Cade."—(Cries of " Order, order.") If the Right Hon. Baronet retracts—(The Hon. Mem ber having been called to order)— Sir J. GRAHAM said that he tad over and over again, during his argulnents on this subject, dis claimed the slightest intention of anything like an of fensive or general application of the word. Itlr. FERRAND expressed his satisfaction at the explanation of the Right Hon. Baronet. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said as this question was one of vast importance, he hoped the Noble Lord would state the course which he proposed to adopt. In this case the general principles of legislation had been departed from. What could be a more general principle than that children should be left to the care of their parents to educate and protect—that they should be dependent upon paternal affection for tend ing and seeing after their interests ? Such was the principle upon which all legislation rested, so far as those matters were concerned. But had they kept to that principle ? No. They found it necessary to depart from it, and in the beginning of the last cen tury a man of most benevolent intentions first intro duced a measure on the subject, and again this prin ciple had been departed from, in 1833, with the sanc tion of the Right Honourable Gentleman op posite. There was another principle involved in this matter, and that was, that persons should be free to dispose of their labour as they thought would be most profitable to themselves, to make whatever contracts they liked with respect to remuneration. But her Majesty's Ministers, in the Bill now before the House, had departed from that principle, and, considering this, he thought that they had been inconsistent ; because, in the Factories Bill of last year, they had never interfered at all with the hours of labour. In this debate there were two par ties—the one, who were unwilling that there should be any interference with industry; and the other, as had been stated, in bringing forward a kind of Jack Cade proposition, and setting the question in a wholly different light. He confessed, that if a Bill for the regulation even of adult labour, founded on a Report of Commissioners properly authorised, were brought in, he should not like to take upon himself the responsibility of object ing to it. The present question resolved itself into this—namely, whether young persons of twelve, thirteen, or fourteen years of age, were injured by being compelled to work twelve hours a day, and whether, if this period were reduced from twelve hours to ten hours, it would be possible to give sufficient wages for that amount of labour, and leave profit enough to the capitalist and manufacturer to induce them to give employment to the vast population of Lancashire and Yorkshire; or whether it would be consistent with the general interests of the manufac turers to make this diminution. This was the ques tion he thought, and the Government maintained it would be injurious to all those interests, and that the proposition of the Noble Lord would excite discon. tant amongst the masters and the operatives, Rua cause a diminution of employment. He gave the Government every credit for being actuated in the course they were about to adopt, by conscientious motives, and for taking every fair means to prevent injurious consequences to the manufacturing interests,, while, on the other hand, he thought the other party introducing those new principles, could not be at all designated as revolutionary in their support of the proposition. He should wish to apply himself to a consideration of all the bearings of this great and momentous question before next Friday, and he trusted that the Noble Lord opposite would also con sider the matter before next Thursday, and state to. the House his views, and the course he intended to, adopt. Mr. HUME thought it a wise course to adjourn this i matter, as then both the House and the country would have an opportunity of considering the matter. Nearly twenty years ago, a Committee consisting of fiftronn Members, whose party views differed from each ober quite as much as those of lion. Members who took a Alt in this debate, and the result of their suggestions was to '. '"~`~ 18 433 949•) — sto