The Sun. — London, England, 1839-07-10 00:00:00

RIOTS AT BIRMINGHAM. FROM OUR OWN C ORRESPONDENT.) BIRMINGHAM, TUESDAY, HALF PAST 3 P. M. ANOTHER DELEGATE ARRESTED. This morning at two o'clock, Mr. George Julian Barney, one of the Northern Delegates, was brought into I3irming ham,in charge of Spittle,a Birmingham officer. lie had been arrested on the previous evening, at Beddiington, and reach ed Carlisle by the train late at night. On Lis arrival at the latter place, as soon as it was known, the inn where the officer put up with Mr. Harney was immAiately set.• rounded by the people, who demanded his immediate release, or threatened to rescue him. Having indulged in other threats, Mr. Harney was compelled to implore of them not to in'erfere. At length, seeing no prospect of the people being appeased, a chaise was drawn up at the rear of the inn, and while the people were busily engaged in the front, Spittle and Mr. Harney got into it, and drove off. lie was arrested on 'a warrant issued some time ago. He will Le brought up for examination this night. bail it is expected, will be procured for Messrs. Collins and Lovett this evening. To the great astonishment of the inhabitants the Magis trates again yeste, day evening called out the military. There was, no doubt ; a great assemblage of the people in the different parts of the town, but not the slightest indi eltion of a riot until the police made their appearance. At seven o'clock a troop of the Royal Irish Dragoons gal loped down Moore-street, and was quartered in the Wool Pack, an inn adjoining the public office. At eight o'clock the Rifles oa duty at the public office turned out and formed an advanced guard, leaving open spaces in their ranks for several squadrons of dragoons, who at that moment came at a brisk trot down Moore. street, taking their station in the Bull-ring. Then a large body of the Metropolitan Police followed, supported by several companies of the Rifles. The dragoons were stationed in all the avenues leading to the Bull-ring, after which no one was allowed to pass their lines ; the people at this moment, conjecturing what could be the object of those warlike preparations. After some time the police divided into sections, each section followed by a troop of Dragoons. Immense crowds were attracted to the spot and wherever the police saw them congre gated, they attacked and dispersed them. (Our Corres pondent states that this was done with great violence, and that several persons were seriously injured.) At one o'clock the police again made another attack down St. Martin's. lane on the people, crying out " Close the doors ;" this they did in order that the people might not obtain shelter. It is said that many will die from the effects of their wounds. The people, having been denied the Town Hall for holding their meeting, were assembling at Holloway-head. The Rifles were ordered to disperse them, the people re sisted, and were commencing to pelt the military with stones. The order to load and make ready was given, when, fortunately, the Dragoons having made their ap pearance, prevented the necessity of the fatal word— " fire." Several prisoners were arrested, and brought in under an escort. It is reported that the people are about seeking the removal of the Metropolitan Police, of whom an additional force arrived last night. The following handbill has been this morning circulated. " NOTICE. " Every trade is strongly advised to meet without delay, and at once elect its own delegate, who is to act as a mem ber of a Committee of Public Safety. Advice will be given to all deputies on application at the Convention• room until further notice." Martial law is still enforced. The authorities must have intelligence beyond what is generally known, or they would not keep Birmingham in its present state of siege, which IZust seriously injure trade. From five o'clock in the evenL , g the shopkeepers of High-street and its vicinity are quite idle. The object of the Magistrates cannot be long a secret. The people will not allow it. FRUITS OF THE CORN LAWS. We have received the following communication from a party who is well known to us, and whose respecta bility is a sufficient guarantee for the accuracy of his statements. We have, on former occasions, directed the attention of our readers to the process which must infallibly go on, unless our Corn-laws arc materially mo dified ; and the letter furnishes a sample of its working. To suppose that we can maintain our manufacturing pre.emineuce against rivals who procure their food at a much lower price—who have machinery equal to our own—and who are rapidly acquiring an equal degree of skill and capital,—is just as absurd as it is to imagine that water will run up a hill, or to conceive any other physical impossibi lity. If we will not allow cheap food to come to the workmen, the workmen will assuredly go to the cheap food ; and they are now doing so in considerable num bers : TO THE EDITOR OF THE MANCIIESTIR GUARDIANS Sir,--On Saturday last, as I was standing at the door of my warehouse, I observed some of my best weavers, whom I have kept going for two or three years together, bringing in their geers. I was much surpri.ed at this, knowing that work generally is slack ; and I followed them up stairs. On my inquiring how it was, one of them said, on behalf of the whole, " Oh! we are going to Belgium to learn them to weave there, and we are to have 15s. a week, house rent, and fire found, with free passage, and our Wages will start as soon as we set off ; which you know is a great deal better than we can do here ;" and he added, " Some other weavers that I know have gone to the same quarter, and would arrive last Friday." You may judge how I felt at this ; it came upon me like a borne thrust ; and though the affair may be small in amount, and to some may appear altogether insignificant, yet, as far as it goes, it is a blow at our manufacturing supremacy, It is no ideal matter ; no speculative guess as to the competition we may have to encounter, but at once a word and a blow. I shook hands with regret with my old weavers, — regret at losing good servants, and regret at the pro bable effects of their engagement. England provides the elements of, and offers at the same time the mightiest incentive to, foreign competition. What laws of persecution have done in other countries, the laws of starvation are doing in this. Yours, truly, A MANUFACTURER. Manchester, July 4, 1839. THE STEREOTOMY, OR NEW SECTIONS OF THE CUBE, APPLICABLE TO ALL THE PURPOSES OF BUILDING, PAVING, &c. __...-- A meeting of Noblemen and other scientific men was held yesterday afternoon, in the large room of the Royal Botanic Society, Pall-mall, to hear an exposition of numerous experiments that had been m ade b y a fo reigner of distinction for dividing the cube. His Royal Highness the Duke of Sussex occupied the chair, and there were present, amongst other gentlemen well known in the world of science, the Duke of Hamilton, the Earl of Munster, Colonel Rushbrooke, Sir Charles Le rman, Colonel Sir Burges Comae, the Hon. J. Bruce, Colonel D'Arcy, Captain Slade, Dr. Ure, and Dr. Sigmond. The object of the Expositor was to exhibit a division of the cube, or as he called it, the anatomy of the cube, and he observed that it was an extraordinary fact in the history of science, that although the cube was the most regular of all solid bodies, and the most learned men amongst the Greeks and other nations, had occupied themselves for many years in order to ascertain and measure its proportions, it bad never hitherto been regarded as a ody to be anatomised or explored in its inward parts. So,'ne years ago, it had occurred to a French mathema , ticiac that it was divisible into six pyramidical forms, and th.'s circumstance seeems to have suggested to the Lecturer of yesterday that the natural formation of the body was by a combination of these forms. Hav ing detaile d a number of experiments which he had made, at id shown how the results thereby obtained were in strict .accordance with mathematical principles, he proceeded to show the various purposes to which the diagonals of the tlubes he had obtained might be applied. By cutting the c o,be in half, and then dividing the half in a diagonal form, 1,! , e obtained a figure, namely a quarter of the cube, in which,' he observed, the whole strength or power of resistance of the entire body resided ; while its figure was such at' to be capable of forming a horizontal line that .might be extended to any length. The more immediate object was to show the application of these .figures to the purposes of paving by wood, in com,!nnation with asphalte, used as a cement for uniting the cubes, and which, it was alleged, would constitute a p;ivement at once eco nomical, clean, and enduring. Amongst the various ap plications of these figures shown, was one forming a spiral column, which was appropriate l y denominated the skeleton or osteologic part of the quadrangular column, upon a scale equal to 120 feet in height. The practi cal uses of this for the purposes of architecture were pointed out, and appeared to be a ppreciated by the company present. The whole of the exposition s were, in fact, listened to with great iuterest, and several ques tions were asked. At the conclusion, his Royal High ness expressed his obligation to the distinguished gentle man who had addressed the meetinj, and gave it as his opinion that the informati on imparteci was not only ex tremely interesting, but highly i mpor t an .t to the interests of practical science. CHELTENHAM ELECTION.— A repirt is in cir lulation that it is intended to get up a requisinn to Mr. Roc 'luck to stand a s a candidate for the borough- at the next ejection.— Cheltenham Gazette. SUDDEN DEATH. —On Saturday last a sOlemri 1 instance of sudden death occurred to Mr. Andrew Morgan the respectable farmer of Cum Maddoc, near Monmouth, The de, cased retired to bed in his usual health ; but early in the morning, his wife awaking, fancied him restless, and- aeon endeavouring to ascertain the cause, she found that the vital spark had tied for ever. The painful sensation which this awful bereavement earned to the widow and family of the deceased is beyond description.—Merlin. ph Neeld, M.P. HARIWW SCHOOL.—Mr. SC,s.se for Chi p p e nliam, and one of the Govecilors of Harrow School, has just founded two additional scholarships Uni t a 1 Harrow for boys going thence to an y college in the ver s ity of Oxford. Mr. Alexander James Beresford Hds opoe, .on of Viscountess Beresford , has g iven up the proceef his scholarship gained at Harrow in 1837 to fo und a prize at the same school. The Govet Tiers have adopted the plan of Mr. Decimus Burton for rebuilding in a handsome manner the head-master's house , destroyed by fire Octob there 22, IS3 8 , in the same style as the set. ,00l building and new chapel, now nearly completed, for the use of the school. THE HOUSE OF LORDS. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. SIR Will nothing rouse the people of this country? Are the annual and oft-repeated insults of the Lords never to be resented ? If tha effect expected of the Reform Bill was, that it would restore to the people their power to elect and fairly control their Rcprt,z,entatives—and, at the same time, destroy the usurped and undue power of the Aristocracy, how miserably have they been deceived I The startling truth must force itself upon us—that the 1?e -form Bill is now a dead letter—its object, a delusion—its effect, a nullity. Bribery and intimidation, more gross and open than ever before occurred, now render the im partial voice of the people unattainable. The Lords, re senting the loss of their unjust power in the Commons, have, in revenge, pursued a systematic course of blind and determined opposition to every measure emanating from a Liberal Ministry, heightened by a studied contempt for the decisions of the House of Commons. They trust to their obstinacy, and to their party's tactics—outcry and de lusion—to gain the day, and shall they succeed? Luckily for them they live in a country possessed of more than human patience. " They order these things better in France"—there, half the provocation would have settled the question long ago. " Quosque tandem abutere pati critic nostra? " blow long will they be suffered to pursue their insane and reckless course? Plunging the country into difficulty abroad, and creating distress• and distrust at home? If the Government is at a dead lock, who is to blame? What can the Ministry do ? flow can they act? With a majority, overwhelming and always ready, in the Lords—with a party nearly balanced in the Commons— ' what course is left? "To resign," say the Tories—in other words, " reward us for having reduced the affairs of the country to a stand still, by giving us power, and then we will carry on the Government." Create Peers, say the other party. Follow the example of the Tories, who first set the example in destroying the independence of the Lords. Creating Peers is but adding to a nuisance al ready too powerful an obstacle to improvement; and which the plain, common sense of the people will yet destroy, if their outraged patience does not. Let us then meditate constantly, let it be for ever in our thoughts, and in political actions let it regulate the conduct of every Liberal, that the sole power of the State is now, and has been for some years, centred in the Aristocracy— our Queen is of little use, our Commons of none at all— the Lords, the Lords only, are all powerful. If they were destroyed politically, or made elective and responsible somewhere, the country would then thrive. Restrictions on trade, and consequently on industry, bigoted and anti quated notions in religion and politics would cease, and prosperity and content would once more visit the country ; but till the Lords are either destroyed or made responsible, the boasted integrity of King, Lords, and Commons—the often vaunted glory of the English Constitution—must give place to a tyranny ever hated, and from the earliest times productive of ruin and misery to that country in flicted with it—the detested power of an oligarchy. I am, Sir, Your obedient servant and Constant Subscriber, London, July 4. D. D. The will of the late Andrew Henry Poulett Thomson of Austinfriars, and of Marlow, in the county of Buckingham, merchant, has been just proved in the Prero gative Court of the Archbishop of Canterbury by George Julius Poulett Scrope, the brother of the deceased. The personal proper:) , of the deceased has been sworn under the value of 50,0001. which he,has bequeathed to his wife and daughter, viz. 15,0001. to Mrs. Thomson, and a legacy of 1,000/. ; and 15,0001. to his daughter, Mrs. Weyleim ; the re mainder of his property, after two annuities of small amount, together with a legacy of 5001. to his executor, is bequeathed to the issue, should there be any, of his second wife. The deceased was the brother of Mr. Poulett Thomson, who is in the present Ministry, and the melancholy death of this gentleman is, doubtless, in the fresh recollection of our readers. He was drowned in the Weir, at Buckingham, together with Captain Wyndham, on the 28th of April last, on returning from church. The deceased only executed his will on Thursday, the 25th of April last, and was drowned on the Sunday following, the 28th. The deceased had only been married to his second wife about two years, who is now enceinte.—Observer. SWIMMING FEAT OF THE DUKE OF BOR DEAUX.—A correspondent of the Gazette de France at Prcaburg, in mentioning the recent visit of the Duke of Bordeaux, states that his Hoyal Highness performed a remarkable feat in swimming while stopping there. The Duke had told some of his friends of his intention to swim from the Margaret island in the Danube to the swimming school, and, this having got rumoured abroad, a great number of young Hungarian gentlemen went to wait for his Royal Highness in the island in swimming costume of brilliant colours. As soon as the Prince appeared on the shore, a military band struck up some lively airs, and the gentlemen advanced to pay their respects. The Duke appeared flattered with this unexpected reception, and shortly after, at the head of his cortege, plunged into the stream. A boat preceded him with the Hungarian colours flying, and several others followed the party with bands of music. On account of the length of the traject a boat had been stationed half-way for the Prince to rest himself in if he pleased, hut be declined doing so, and swain on with the greatest ease to the end of his appointed course. The Duke of Bordeaux was still at Vienna on the 27th ult., but preserved the strictest incognito, and the Court has consequently renounced the fetes prepared for him. THE NELSON MEmmitAL.—On Monday morning the members of the Nelson Memorial Committee assembled at the Thatched House Tavern, St. James's street. Mr. Railton, the architect, was also in attendance. The following is a correct list of the Noblemen and Gen tlemen appointed to form the sub- Committee to superin tend the erection of the monument :—The Duke of Wel lington, the Duke of Northumberland, the Marquis of Lansdowne, Lord Colborne, Mr. Spring Rice, Mr. Herries, Mr. Croker, Sir Robert Inglis, Sir John Barrow, Mr. Wood, the Duke of Buccleuch, and Sir G. Cockburn. On Monday morning the sub-Committee were occupied in consulting Mr. Railton on his tiesign, which the general Committee had determined should be adopted. It is un derstood that the cost of erection of the monument is es timated at 30,0001. BOROUGH OF MARYLEBONE.—It is said to be the intention of the Liberal electors of the parish of St. Pancras to bring forward the Hon. Edward Bouverie, second son of the Earl of Radnor, as a candidate for the representation of this borough, in the event of a dissolution of Parliament. SEA.HORSE SHOT IN THE SEVERN.—About three weeks since a half-grown walrus or morse, about eight feet long, a well-known inhabitant of the polar re. gions, but which very seldom, we believe, is seen in these latitudes, was shot on the sands, near Purton. It was afterwards conveyed to Berkeley Castle.--Cheltenham Chronicle. On Saturday, at the Insolvent Debtor's Court, Thomas Kingston, a general shopkeeper in Kepple-mews, Russell-square, whose debts amounted to upwards of 1,4001., was opposed by a great number of creditors who appeared in person. On seeing the number of opposing creditors, the insolvent refused to swear to his schedule, and asked time of the Court to amend it. Mr. Cooke asked him if he would give up the 2251. he had concealed from his creditors. The insolvent replied that he could not do so. The Court refused him leave to amend the schedule, and discharged the order for hearing. The Queen continues her equestrian exercise almost daily, in which she is always attended by Miss Quentin, the daughter of Sir George Quentin. This young lady, though holding no specific appointment in the Royal Household, might very properly be styled eques trian lady-in-waiting, as it is her duty to prepare and train the horses destined for her Majesty's own use, assist her Majesty in mounting and dismounting—in short, to per form all the petite sans usually performed by attendant cavaliers on maidens of lesser degree. Miss Quentin is a first-rate horsewoman, and has trained five horses for the special use of the Queen. She rides from Kew, every morning, to attend her Majesty.—Cheltenham Looker-on. SEND AWAY THE PEOPLE! !—Whenever the distress and want of employment arising front onr unnatu ral Corn-laws have been found to reach an intolerable height, as in 1819, 1829, and 1839, there was never wanted a remedy—Send away the people ! Horses, cows, and swine still fetch a good market price, but for that superabundant animal, man, the only question that seems to give anxiety to Members of Parliament, is how to get rid of him, even at a loss. A proposal is made, we see, to ship off some human cargoes to countries on the other side of the globe, where they may find food. It has been somewhere observed that man is of all commodities the most difficult to transport; would it not, therefore, be easier to bring the food to him 7—Anti-Corn-iato Ctrcului. The latest accounts from Birmingham enable us to announce that the town is in a state of tranquillity, and the excitement and anxiety are considerably allayed. Dr. Taylor returned to Birmingham about half-past one o'clock yesterday morning, with Mr. Feargus O'Connor, who was one of his sureties. Several of the Chartists were severely injured in the conflict. One surgeon stated that he at tended about 30, who were wounded severely or slightly. DEATH OF A CELEBRATED CHARACTER. — The beginning of last week an exceedingly well-known character departed this life, namely, " Old Jack," the gigantic and venerable swan with whom the public have been so long acquainted, on the canal in the enclosure of St. James's Park, at the advanced age of seventy years. Old Jack was hatched some time about the year 1770, on the piece of water attached to old Buckingham House, and for many years basked in the sunshine of Royal favour, Queen Charlotte being extremely partial to him, and fre quently condescending to feed him herself. When the pleasure gardens in St. James's Park were laid out Jack was removed there, and his immense size, sociable dispo sition, and undaunted courage have often excited the ad miration of the public. Jack's strength and courage were indeed astonishing. Frequently has he seized an unlucky dog, who chanced to approach to the edge of his watery domain, and drowned him ; and on one occasion, when a boy, about twelve years of age, had been teazing him, Jack caught him by the leg of his trousers and dragged him into the water up to his knees. Jack, however, never acted on, the offensive, but always on the defensive, and if' not an noyed was exceedingly tractable. But the march of modern improvement affected poor Jack as much as it has do:le thousands of more pretending bipeds. The Ornitho loggners iound ica; Society was formed, and a host of feathered fo rei t h e i r way into the canal, with whom Jack and furious encounters, and invariably B a t a legion of Polish geese at length hadc arrived, offmanywho c eecrsocsmef successful. u mei hostilities with Jack. Despising everything like even warfare, they attacked him in a body, and then died. The body of p oor old Jack is to be stuffed and pecked him so severely that be drooped for a few days for one of the scientific museums. SHOWER OF ICE.--At Old Windsor, on Sun day night, during a violent thunder-storm, there was a shower of ice. The pieces were of the shape, and some of them of the size of a common hen-egg. One of them, half an hour after it had fallen, weighed fifteen penny weights, and measured in the circumference of its length five inches and a half, and of its greatest breadth four inches. Each piece was transparent except at its centre, which was of the purest white. While falling they were illuminated by the lightning, and seemed like balls of fire. IMPE RI AL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Jur.? 9. The Lotto CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at Fivo Lord LYNDHURST and Lord KENYON pre se,ltii petitions aga , nq the Biackwall Railway Bill. Lord ELLENBOROUGH presented a petition from the West India Dock Company in favour of the Blackwall Railway Bill. The Highways Act Amendment Bill passed through a Committee. The Report on the Ecclesiastical District Churches Bill was brought up. The Watch Rates Boroughs Bill was read a third time and passed. The Marquis of SALISBURY presented a variety of petitions against clauses in the Prisons Bill. The Duke of RICHMOND presented petitions from Exeter and Devizes in favour of the penny post . age. Also a petition from Inverness for Church exten sion in Scotland ; and likewise a petition signed by 300 merchants and traders frequenting the West India Docks in favour of the Blackwall Railway Bill. On the motion of Lord DUNCANNON, the Glass Duties Bill was react a second time. _ _ BEER BILL. Lord BROUGHAM stated that the Beer Bill stood on the votes to be recommitted for the purpose of being read a third time to-night. He found that a Bill un the same subject had met with the assent of a very considerable majority in the other House of Parliament ; and so decided was that majority, and so different to his Bill was the nature of that measure, that he could entertain no hope that if their Lordships proceeded to read the Bill a third time, and to send it to the Ilouse of Commons, that it would be favourably received there. What he should propose, therefore, was to discharge the order for the second reading of the Bill to-night, and to give notice that on Fri day next he should move a resolution expressive of their Lordships'opinion upon the subject of the Beer laws that that resolution might be communicated to the other House. In this way he had great reason to hope that some proceeding would be taken between the two Houses, which would most likely be satisfactory to all, and calculated, in a great degree, to meet the evils of the case. He should also for this reason discharge his order for the Education Bill that stood for Friday, and give notice that he should bring that subject on on Monday. Lord KENYON thought there could not be a more effective mode of expressing their Lordships opinion than by passing the Bill, and he thought a more regular course would be for the Noble and Learned Lord to have his Bill read a third time. Lord BROUGHAM begged to inform the Noble Lord that passing the resolution would not be an aban donment of the Bill. It would only be a postponement of the third reading, and the Bill could be treated here after as circumstances might require. Lord PORTMAN thought this a very dangerous mode of proceeding. It would be much better for his Noble and Learned Friend to take the straightforward course. Lord BROUGHAM said, that generally speaking he always preferred a straightforward to a tortuous course, but if the Noble Lord chose to go straightfor ward and knock his head against a stone wall, unless his head were very hard, he might do it a great deal of injury, and very little harm to the wall.—(Laughter.) In the present instance, a strong wall had been raised by the House of Commons against his proceeding in any other course than that of which he had given notice. Order of the day discharged. BLACKWALL RAILWAY. The Marquis of SALISBURY moved the second reading of the Blackwell Railway Bill. He said the objections which had been made against the Bill were altogether negatived by the Company, who had offered to pay the costs of referring the Bill to a Committee, in order to ascertain the truth upon the case. In con clusion, he moved that the Bill be read a second time. The Duke of WELLINGTON said no one felt more strongly than he did the propriety of referring these questions to a Committee ; but in the present instance an Act of Parliament had passed a few years ago, re stricting this very line of Railway to the Minories. This Bill proposed, for the convenience of certain mer chants, to carry the Railway into the heart of the city - The principle of the Bill therefore having been ex pressly negatived by Parliament already, one good reason was worth a hundred bad ones ; and he did not care one pin for the two and thirty which he understood were urged in favour of the Bill—he stood on the former Act of Parliament, and on that ground, he moved that Bill be read a second time, that day six months. Lord BROUGHAM said it was true one good reason was worth a hundred bad ones , and for that reason he did not care one pin for the reason which the Noble Duke had given for disregarding the two-and-thirty reasons which were given in favour of the Bill.--(A laugh.) He never interfered with private Bills unless they involved some important legislative principle on some point of practice in the proceedings of the House, and such he considered was the case in the present instance ; for he believed the motion of the Noble Duke if carried would involve the abrogation of those orders referring to private Bills, which had been found so bene ficial in their operation. If ever, without the strongest reasons—the most extraordinary exceptions—such Bills were taken from the investigation of a Committee, and decided upon at once, in the House, the effect would be much the same as if the House of Commons were to depart from that salutary act—the Grenville Act, and decide upon election petitions in the whole House. The practice on private Bills in their Lord ships' House had formerly been as corrupt as that of election petitions in the other House, and to decide such questions in the whole House would in both cases be productive of the same mischievous results. All the evils of canvassing would be revived, and though the Noble Duke might not be accessible to such acts—others, with less firmness and perspicacity, would be influenced by them. What was the argument of the Noble Duke for throwing the Bill out on the second reading, without examining its merits in a Committee—that Parliament had in 1836 passed an Act limiting the Railway to the Minories. But would Parliament tie up its hands for ever by its own act? Certainly not ; that was in fact the only thing which Parliament could not do. Parliament only legislated for the present ; not to prevent legislation for the future. The circumstance of the prior Act having been passed might indeed be an argument in Committee. But unless their Lordships were prepared to say that no explanation of the law—no statement of facts—could ever induce them to pass such a measure it would be highly improper and unjust withou t in q uir y to reject the Bill. Let it not be said that expense would he in curred, for the Company had most liberally offered to pay all the charges of referring the Bill to the Commit tee. That such offer should have been rejected was doubtless owing to the opponents of the Bill hoping by their influence to defeat the Bill altogether, in which hope he trusted they would be disappointed. Lord ELLEN BOROUGH supported the second reading of the Bill. Lord W H ARNCLIFFE said he should be sorry to see a Bill of this sort thrown out on the second reading. After the Committee should have reported it would be open to any Member of the House to move the rejection of the Bill, but the House ought to be very cautious how it threw out a Bill on the second reading, because certain facts were disputed. The Bishop of LONDON objected to the Bill on the ground that it was likely to prove a public nuisance. The proposed terminus was to be equidistant, and at a small distance from three of the principal churches in London, and the thousands of passengers would prove a source of great interruption to the performance of Divine worship, to say nothing of the noise occa sioned by the engines and carriages. The congregations of these cm..-ohos had petitioned against the Bill, as well as the Corporation of London, and he telt no scruple in supporting the Noble Duke, because under no circumstances whatever could the Bill be rendered palatable to him. Without entering into the question touched on by the Noble and Learned Lord, he rested his objection on public expediency, as connected with the principles of morality and order. Lord FITZ WILLIAM said that very strong rea sons indeed ought to be made out for rejecting the second reading of the Bill, and he thought it would be unjust to these parties not to allow them to go on. The Right Rev. Prelate had said that the effect of the Bill would be to disturb the quiet of public worship. It would be exceedingly unfortunate if the administration of religious services were at all interfered with by the railway, but he could not help considering that a rail way between London and the country was more likely to take people out of London on a Sunday than to bring them in. But his principal object in rising was to express the regret which he always felt when a dis cussion arose on a Railway Bill, that some more com prehensive view had not been taken of the general system of railways in this country. Every debate which he heard convinced him more and more that a great error had been committed in not establishing a general system of railways over the coon. try ; and so far from the proceedings before Commit. tees being satisfactory, he was satisfied that individuals whose interests were either really affected, or who fan cied their interests were interfered with, would be infi nitely more reconciled to these measures if they felt they were part and parcel of the same general system, than they could be in the discussion on individual measures. Any one who imagined that the system of railroads was in more than its infancy, took an erroneous view of the extent to which these communications would be carried. And if there were many lines still to be considered, almost an infinite number in comparison with those which had already been carried into effect, it was not too late even now to institute some general system. The mode of proceeding would be analagous to that adopted in Ireland, which would be productive of very beneficial results. It would lead to the best selection o fthe lines which ought to be adopted, and the points w hich were to be connected, and he trusted that some such step would be taken. Lord ASHBURTON said hp should object to this railway coming into Fenclaurch-strret, just as Ihe should object to the Birmingham or the I Great Western coming up into the Haymarket. All those railways should have their terminus at the skirts and not in the heart of the town. He was not prepared to state any specific mischief, but he looked at the general injury that would result from bringing it into the city. Lord FA LMO UTH objected to the terminus being brought into Fenchurch-street upon what he had heard stated since he entered the House. The Earl of WICKLOW did not think it fair that Noble Lords should come into the House avowedly ignorant of the merits of the , Bill, and upon the statements of one or two Noble Lords determine to vote against the measure. He really had heard nothing whatever stated that ought not to be brought fairly before the Committee, and therefore for the purpose of having the measure properly considered, he hoped their Lordships would give the Bill a second reading.—(Cheers.) The Marquis of SALISBURY said that the nearest pciint of the terminus of the railway to any Church was 135 feet, and that there was a street and a row of houses between them.—(Hear.) This would not be the first instance of allowing the terminus of a railway to be brought into the City, because three years ago a Bill was passed, giving permission to bring a terminus into Smithfield. The Duke of WELLINGTON said that there was an agreement here, in the Bill which had already passed, between these parties and the public, that the terminus should not be brought past the Minories. He was not usually opposed to such Bills as this going into a Committee, but this case presented the exception of a bargain , upon which bargain he took his stand, laying asid all minor questions of incon- venience. Lord WHARNCLIFFE did not apprehend that any clause in any Act of Parliament was to take away the power of Parliament to extend the terminus of a railway, if upon what appeared before it it should think proper to do so, and that was a question for the Com mittee. For his own part, he thought there was no ground for throwing out this Bill at present, except upon a feeling that there ought to be no railway brought into the City of London. Lord BROUGHAM said if that were to be so he should be glad to know upon what principle it was that the City of London was to be kept more inviolate than any other city or town. Ile hoped their Lord ships were not going to lay down, by the vote they were about to give, that the railways were very good things for country places but very bad for towns. The Marquis of SALISBURY wished to inform the House that there was not one word in the Act which the Noble Duke said contained a bargain that pledged the Company not to come to Parliament again for an extension of their road. He was informed that the Company would be able to prove before a Com mittee that they not only did not enter into such a con tract, but that Parliament was told when they obtained their Act that it would, at a subsequent time be applied to for a further Act. He was likewise in formed that he should be able to prove before a Com mittee that the House had already passed a Bill of a similar nature to the one now before it, so that the principle was not new. And as to the parties who now came forward upon their petitions to oppose this Bill, certainly no persons ever appeared under worse colours. Lord WILTON said he had a decided objection to the Railway coming into the heart of the City of Lon don, and therefore be should vote against the second reading. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. Upon our readmission we found the numbers to be— For the second reading 33 Against it ......... 26 Majority for the second reading 7 BLOCKADE OF MEXICO. Lord STRANGFORD said that he had given no tice for a motion tonight on the subject of the blockade of Mexico, but as the Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty, (Minto) was not now in his place, and as the question was one of considerable importance, he should postpone it until Monday next. TITHE AMENDMENT BILL. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, in moving the second reading of the Tithe Amendment Bill, said that great progress had been made in the adjustment of these important interests, and that principally on vo luntary agreements, upwards of one-third of the cases having been already settled, with the fairest prospect of their increasing every month. The principal objects of the present Bill were—first, to provide in the case of tithe having merged into the land, for transferring any charge that previously ex isted on the tithe to the land ; and secondly, to en able the Commissioners to make supplementary awards. Another part of the Bill related to Lammas land, and was to enable the occupiers of it to come to an agree ment for commutation, without interfering with the graziers, who turned out their cattle for part of the year. With respect to the tithe on fruit and orchards, it had been assented to on the part of the Commissioners, and those who represented the fruit growers, that there should be one tithe levied on the land generally, and a further commutation on tithe as cont.ected with the capital embarked in growing fruit. Lord ASIIBURTON said that in consequence of some recent proceedings which had taken place as to the rating of farms, and also of crops, considerable doubt existed as to what was really the law, and the matter ought to be settled by Parliament. Lord FITZ WILLIAM said the question was ono of c oosiderable importance, and rested, he understood, on the case or the King is. Joddrell. Lord LYNDHURST said this was a very difficult and important question. Lord FITZ WILLIAM had no hesitation in saying that whatever respect he entertained for the judge, it appeared to him that his decision had been made from confusion of judgment on other than legal matters. The Duke of RICHMOND said if the decision of the Judge was to be maintained the law must be altered, for how could the profit for a farm be rated ? If it was, they must rate the merchant and the manufac turer. The land would gain a great deal by this, and he wished it could be got at, for the land bore every thing, and the manufacturing interest ought to bear a little more. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, of appor tionments there had been 1,361-458 confirmed. The Bill was then read a second time. The Scotch Prisons' Bill was read a second time, The Duke of RICHMOND observing, he was most anxious the Bill should pass, for bad as the prisons were in England, they were ten times worse in Scotland. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF CO-4.1101V5, JuLr 9. The SPEAKER took the chair a few minutes before Four o'Clock. Lord A. LENNOX moved the second reading 01 \Veguelin's Divorce Bill. Read a second time and or. dered to be printed. On the motion of Mr. LASCELLES, Mellin's ll: vorce Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. TURNER presented a petition from the at torneys of Cornwall, compliaining that by the 14th clause of the Summary Jurisdiction Bill, improper per sons were allowed to practice in the Court. Mr. CLAY presented a petition from the church wardens and overseers of Christ's Church, Spitalfields, against the Bill for the Collection of Rates ; and a similar petition from Whitechapel. Mr. HAVES presented a petition signed by seven hundred of the merchants, bankers, &c., of Glasgow, whose united capital amounted to 12,000,0001., praying for the protection and extension of British commerce on the shores of the Black Sea and in the River Danube. The petition was ordered to be printed with the Votes, and the Hon. Member gave notice that he should call the attention of the House to the subject this day week. Captain PEC HELL presented a petition from thirty coach Dropr;of...r. at Brighton, complaining of the de pression under which they were labouring in consequence of being obliged to compete with lightly taxed railroads, and praying the House to repeal the duties imposed on t h em , or otherwise to place them on an equality with their rivals. Sir G. CLERK presented a petition from Stamford to the same effect. Mr. FOX MAULE presented a petition from Elgin against any further grant to the Church of Scotland. Colonel THOMAS gave notice that he should move for sums which had been expended for repairs of bar racks ; and alt.°, copies of all reports that had been re ceived of the state of barracks, during the last five years, on Tuesday next. Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved that the considera tions of the Lords' amendments to the Jamaica Bill do take precedence of the other Orders of the Day. Lord MORPETH presented petitions from Hud dersfield in:favour of National Educ a ti on ; f rom B arns l e y, in favour of a p enn y postage ; from th e P res byte r ians of Derbyshire a nd Yorkshire, in favour of a system of general education ; from the merchants of Barnsley, praying the House to investigate the state of the trade with Sicily, more particularly with respect to the Sul phur monopoly ; and from some place in the West Riding of Yorkshire, praying that C omm i ss i oners m i g ht be sent to Berlin for the purpose of endeavouring to nego ciate a commercial treaty. Mr. GILL o'S gave noti ce th a t on M on d a y, on the motion that the House resolve itself into a Committee should move for a Committee of the of Supply, he whole House, to consider the duties levied on internal c ommunication. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON moved for certain returns respecting the expenses attendant upon emigra tion to Van Diemen, s Land and New South Wales, in the year 1837, distinguishin g the ports at which the vessels were taken up, and the number of vessels,— , Ordered. SPAIN. Lord MAHON wished t o k now f ro m the Noble Se cretary for Foreign Affai rs , w h e th er any steps were likely to be tiken for the purpose of extending the Eliot Convention in Spain, in order to put an end to the barbarities attendant on the civil war in that country. He also desired to direct the Noble Lord's attention to a passage in the despat c h o f L or d Cl an ricarde of sth February, stating that Count Nesselrode had said to him that the Russian Government bad thought of endeavouring to put a stop to the barbarities of the Spanish contest, and that it would be but one step further to put an end to the war itself; and that the five Great Powers might devise a plan for the pacification of Spain. He (Lord Mahon) would like to know if any measures had been adopted in consequence of this suggestion. Lord,PALMERSTON said, with regard to the first question, the Eliot Convention was originally intended to apply only to the Basque Provinces, and the Spanish Government had hitherto objected to extend it further, stating, with some appearance of reason, that owing to the disturbed condition of the country, and the consequent suspension of the legal authorities, there were many bands of predatory marauders who, if the convention were extended over the whole kingdom, would, when taken, assert that they were Ctrlists, and claim the privilege of being exchanged as prisoners of war. The Spanish Government could not, therefore, consistently with what they owed to the se curity of the country, consent to extend the Convention with respect to the negociation for the interposition of the Austrian, Prussian, and Russian powers. The effect had been a convention between Cabrera and his oppo nent, the effect of which was that prisoners should be ex changed. He (Lord P.) could assure the House that no efforts should be wanting on the part of the Government to humanize the war in Spain. In answer to the com munication of Count Nesselrode, the Government had expressed a wish to know what were the ideas of the Russian Cabinet as to the means by which this object might be attained. Count Nesselrode had replied that the Russian Government bad formed no plan on the subject ; and for the present the negociation dropped. TURKEY AND EGYPT. Mr. MILNE said, hostilities having been '4com menced between the Sultan and the Pacha of Egypt, he wished to know whether the Noble Lord was aware that Marshal Soult had sent an officer to nego tiate with the belligerents, in order to promote a sus pension of hostilities ? and that the Pacha had directed his son Ibrahim to suspend the march of his troops, in consequence of the assurance of the Marshal, that the Five Great Powers would settle the dispute with the Porte. Was this act of Marshal Soult done with the participation of the Noble Lord ? Lord PALMERSTON had great satisfaction in stat• ing that the French and the British Governments perfectly understood each other on this subject ; the French Go vernment having communicated their intentionofsending envoys both to Alexandria and Constantinople, with the object of bringing about a suspension of hostilities, and that Austria, Prussia, and Russia, had evinced a strong and sincere desire to promote a pacification, by which Europe might be relieved from the evils of such a war. Lord PALMERSTON, in answer to a question from the same Hon. Member, stated that the Persian Ambassador had been told, at Constantinople and at Paris, that he could not be received here till the Go vernment of Persia had rendered that satisfaction to the country which it required. Mr. O'CONNELL wished to put a question to the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Department relative to that portion of the Mexican territory calling themselves the State of Texas. He wished to know whether any thing had been done by the. Government for the purpose of recognising the independence of that State ? Lord PALMERSTON stated that an application had been made to the Government in the early part of the last year by persons from Texas for the purpose of knowing whether the Government were prepared to acknowledge the independence of Texas. The answer given to that application was that the general principle of the Government was to acknowledge every State that was de facto independent, but under the circumstances at present existing with respect to Texas, they were not prepared to adopt that course with respect to it. Communications had passed between both parties on the subject, and that was the result of those communications. Mr. O'CONNELL wished to know whether the system of the slave trade that was carried on under the Mexican flag was involved in that communication ? Lord PALMERSTON said that the communica on did not advert to that subject. SCOTCH FISHERIES. Captain PEC HELL wished to knew whether any arrangement had been made with the French Go- ' vernment relative to their encroachments on the fisheries of this country and Scotland? Lord PALMERSTON said that c ommunications had taken place on the subject, that the necociations were nearly brought to a satisfactory conclusion, and he was in hopes in a short time of laying the result of these negociations before the House. STEAM NAVIGATION. Mr. H. HINDE wished to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether it was his intention to intro duce any measure during the present Session, for the purpose of carrying into effect the recommendation of the Commissioners with regard to Steam Navigation ? Mr. P. THOMSON said that it was not his inten tion to introduce any measure on the subject during the present Session, as there would be no chance whatever of its passing. It was his intention, however, early in the next Session to introduce a measure upon the subject. CANADA. Sir ROBERT PEEL wished to ask the Under Secretary for the Colonies, whether any despatch had been received from Sir John Colborne explanatory of the advantages that had been stated would result from allowing the Ordinances of the Council to extend for a longer duration than 1842, so that parties undertaking private speculations might be enabled to make the necessary improvements, and whether the Right Hon. Gentleman had any objection to lay them on the table of the House. Mr. LABOUC HE RE was not able to say that there was any despatch from Sir John Colborne upon that particular subject, but he believed that in one of these despatches there was a distinct allusion to a Bill, by which the Seminary of Montreal would be enabled to purchase certain property.—(Hear, hear, hear.) lie was not prepared to say, that Sir John Colborne had suggested any legislative amendments ,0 that measure. Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved the Order of the Day for taking into consideration the Lords' amend ments to the Jamaica Bill. He would state now generally that he proposed to agree to all the amend ments made by their Lordships except one, and that was merely of a formal nature, owing to a blunder that was made in the House of Lords.—( Hear, hear.) The chief alteration was the omission of the first clause, and it was unnecessary for him to state to the House the argu ments upon which that omission was founded. It certainly did deprive the Bill of a great deal of its power and utility but it was far better to send the Bill as it was to the Governor than to send no Bill at all. Another altera tion provided that two months should pass after the meeting of the House of Assembly before the Gover nor should have the power to continue any Bills that were about to expire. The first amendment to which he had alluded, was of the following nature. The preamble recited that whereas the altered state of society consequent upon' the Abolition of Slavery in Jamaica, required the enactment of certain measures ; and whereas, the House of Assembly, by an address, &c.—and so the preamble went on, but by the a mendment made by the House of Lords the first part of the preamble, excluded the word Ja. maica ; and it did not appear to what island the Bil alluded—a mode of proceeding which it was quite neces sary to correct.—(Hear, and a laugh.) He proposed, therefore, the introduction of the words, " the Island of Jamaica." The other amendments were then agreed to. Sir ROBERT PEEL said the amendments made to the Bill restored it to very much the form which be proposed should be adopted. Ile rose, however, more for the purpose of expressing his earnest hope that the House of Assembly of Jamaica would justify the con fidence which was now placed in it by the general sense of Parliament, and that they would realise the expecta tions that were entertained that they would not only re sume their functions but that they would proceed in that spirit and temper which would at the same time raise the Assembly of Jamaica in public estimation in that country, and show them that the intention of suspending the Constitution and abolishing their Legis lative functions, were not justified by the result. That was the advice which he (Sir R. Peel) would give the Assembly of Jamaica, and he trusted that it would be received by that House in"a proper spirit.—(Hear.) RIOTS AT BIRMINGHAM. Sir R. PEEL wished to know from the Noble Lord what was the number of the men belonging to the metropolitan police force which had been sent down to Birmingham. In doing so he would earnestly recom mend the utmost caution to the Noble Lord in em ploying that force against mobs in any other town. Con sidering the high character and efficiency of the body, he trusted that in employing them in future, the greatest caution would be taken not to compromise that cha racter.—( Hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL said the question put by the Right Hon. Bart. rendered it necessary for him to state the circumstances of the case. What had taken place was nothing very different from what had taken place in different parts of the country during the last three years. The Mayor of Birmingham, accompanied by two other Magistrates of the town, came to London expressly to make application to the Home-office for assistance. They informed him (Lord J. Russell) that as semblies of a tumultuous nature were in the habit of being held every night, and that they had not a suffi cient police force to arrest the personsguilty of disorder. They said they had taken measures to organize such a force, but as it was not ready they could not call upon the military to act without a civil force. In com pliance with the demand a force of sixty men was sent down along with the applicants—they, in a nswer to It!s question, saying they were perfectly satisfied with the mi litary force. It appeared afterwards that on arriving at Birmingham the Magistrates thought proper unnlF diately to arrest certain persons then tumultuous!): assembled at a place called the Bull-ring- He would not give any opinion upon the law of the case, as that JAMAICA BILL. ..: could only he done by one who was on the spot, and said the timber duties of this country keep our labouring knew all of the circumstances. The mob, against whom population poorly lodged, because the American timber that part of the police force were dir ec t e d t o ac t, wer e was not fit for the purposes of their houses. In his opinion some of them armed with knives and other offen- the timber duties pressed even more hard upon our poor I sive weapons, and some of the police bad been wounded. than even the Corn-laws. It was a very important He was glad to say that the last accounts stated that I question, and it led them to ask what excuse there was those who had been wounded were not at present in for the continuance of those duties which pressed hardly any danger. The next morning he received an account upon every productive class of the community. If any from Birmingham, and 'a request to send down 40 more one deigned to answer his few observations, he had no men. He hesitated somewhat with respect to the step, doubt he would hear the old watchword cry of " our and consulted Col. Rowan, with the view of ascertaining ships and colonies—that our marine depended upon our 1 his opinion, what effect such a measure would have on the commercial navy—that it was greatly encouraged by police force in general ; and Colonel Rowan, thinking our colonies, and our colonies could not purchase our that a reinforcement of forty men would give con- manufactures unless we took their timber." He every fidence, he sent them on the second day, and they day saw the result of discussion, and he was satisfied it arrived that night at Birmingham It appeared, would be ultimately productive of good. After having that although the military had acted with that given the best consideration in his power to the subject, promptitude and temper with which they had in: he woulJ say that if there was one point on which he variably acted on these occasions, and although the was able to speak with confidence, it was that their special constables had not failed in their duty, yet the navy was in no way benefited by the seamen employed presence and assistance of a small body of well-orga- in that branch of the commercial marine, and he was sa nised police had been exceedingly useful in maintaining tisfied that the bounty given was not only injurious, L the peace of the town ; and every letter which he had but greatly retarded the prosperity of that country. The received expressed a sense of the utility of this evidence of the Committee that sat in 1835 was conclu foree. He was happy to say, likewise, that sive on that point. Mr. Macgregor, and other gentle there was a l e tter this morning from one of the men well acquainted with the subject, stated that it had sup er intendents of the police who was at present at the direct tendency to divert capital from its more Birmingham, a man of character and intelligence, stating useful employment, and tempted men to embark in that although great crowds assembled yesterday evening a most demoralizing and gambling speculation.—(Hear.) in the streets, the metropolitan force acted everywhere Such had been the effect of these duties upon timber, and with the utmost decision. Although it was unwise to it was shown that these colonies had sufficient support mix up the police force in any case where they for their export trade, independently of timber. Ca would run the risk of being injured or disparaged in nada was enabled to support an export trade with its the public opinion, yet he was of opinion there did agriculture, Newfoundland with its fisheries, Nova occur many occasions in which the assistance of a small Scotia with its mines, and New Brunswick, if it was body of policemen would be of the utmost importance. only allowed to employ its industry in a proper direction. This had been the case lately at Trowbridge, where pro- Not only had they diverted the colonists from their bably the barracks would have been burnt down but for natural occupations, but they had tempted them into a their presence. He trusted that he should soon see business that was most hazardous and demoralizing. In an efficient force established throughout the country. the first place, there was the fluctuations in price which Captain WOOD wished to know if this force was to affected them more than speculators in any other trade, continue at Birmingham. If this system was to be and the slight variation of price in the home market pursued of sending the metropolitan police force through- very often ruined or made a man. There was also out the country, it would be a considerable tax on the great hazard and risk in bringing the timber from rate payers here. the wood to the ports—a great deal of timber was Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that in almost thus destroyed. The nature of the employment also every case he had found the local authorities ready exercised a most unfortunate influence on the character to contribute the greater part, if not the entire and conduct of persons engaged in it. The persons who expenses of the police force when sent down. felled the timber were those who went forth together He would also mention that he had thought it ne- in great bodies, who lived in the woods for eight months cessary this year to ask for an additional sum of money in the year—released from all the influences of civil for the police force, so that there might be a body of society, and who were exposed to great temptations in police always disposable without ever diminishing the the use of ardent spirits. Their constitutions became force necessary for the metropolis. impaired, and their habits reckless and immoral. And TIMBER DUTIES. those were the persons for whose interests it was said Mr. VILLIERS then rose to move, that the House this trade ought to be continued. The old impression do resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, that the timber trade was useful to emigrants had now to consider the present Duties levied on Foreign and ceased to exist, but he was aware that one argument for Colonial Timber. He felt it would be difficult to ob- the support of these timber duties would be, that inte tain the attention which a matter of so great importance rests were already engaged in it ; he believed those in deserved, at that period of the Session. Constantly terests were greatly over-rated. There was not much reminded, however, as he was by those who importance attached to the monopoly by the great ma had placed him in that House of the injury jority of the colonies. He believed no objection to a they had received from this and other commercial re- change of this unsound monopoly existed except among strictions, he felt himself relieved from any diffidence in a class of persons usually termed the shipping interest ; submitting it to the House, as no other person, he ob- and he did not deny that if they made any change there served, was disposed to take the matter up, espe- were persons who might plead that their property would cially as no better: ground was assumed for per- be deteriorated in value, but he denied that they ought petuating abuse, or for sanctioning mischievous le- to sacrifice public interest to private gain. What pro gislation than that such subjects were not brought portion was it of the mercantile marine of this country under the attention of the House. He might claim that depended on the timber trade ? In the report of something like appropriateness in point of time in calling the Committee to which he had already alluded, the the attention of the House to this subject, because they whole amount of shipping trading with those colonies was were not only about to review the relations in which this stated to be 1,806 sail ; and deducting 440 which were country stood with regard to her dependencies in North employed in carrying cargoes other than timber, wesuld America, with which this question was connected, but the leave 1,360 vessels employed in the timber trade. There House was fresh from hearing as t a tement from the Finan- were then only 1,360 ships engaged in the tirw . ber trade, cial Minister, which showed we were in a course of expen- while the number belonging to Great Britain and her diture in excess of our income ; and the case he wished dependencies were 25,600 ; and was this isle to be to submit to the House was one in which the resources frightened from its propriety by so small a fraction of its of this country were in his judgment more prodigally, shipping being thrown out of employment ? But why uselessly, and mischievously was ted th a n in any other case should they be thrown out of employment ? Was it to to which there was a parallel. In the correctness and be assumed that the foreigner was so much more skilful justice of that view there was more unanimity of opinion in naval tactics or architecture—were they so much throughout the country than on any other matter in more energetic and persevering than ourselves that they which particular interests were opposed to the public would run away with the whole of the carrying trade ? 'advantage. Not an administration had existed for the The very same stale and stupid arguments were East 12 years that had n ot condemned these duties, and he made use of when Mr. Huskisson abolished the mari thought it reflected great discredit on this country that time laws, and what had been the result of that wise they should have been allowed to exist for so long a period. and statesman-like measure ? Why, since that time, Even that last resource o f those who were defeated in foreign shipping had increased 11 per cent, while ours argument, a Select Committee, had been had recourse had increased no less than 29 per cent. Suppose we to ; and the only consequence of it had been that it were to open our trade to the north of Europe —sups had elicited further facts confirming the mischief corn- pose we were to take her timber, would not our ships plained of. The story of these duties had been related be employed in bringing it here ? There had lately to that House eight years ago by a Minister of the been a demand for shipping to bring us corn—had that Crown, and be regretted that this story should thrown the trade into the hands of foreigners, or was now have to be repeated. The House was, per- not our own shipping employed ? If any country were haps, not aware that this article of necessary consump- able to compete with us it was America. Now, in 1821, tion to the country was not produced in sufficient quan- our shipping compared with that of America, was tities in this country to supply the demand. This defi- V I per cent., while in 1835 it was 39 per cent. He ciency of supply amounted to 1,200,000 loads of wondered after they had seen that just so as commerce timber annually.—(Hear, hear.) The countries from was left free, so it flourished, that the shipping interest whence the supply of these article could be ob- should still cry out for the monopoly of the tained were the north of Europe and the north of dark ages. It was said the manufacturers of America, and there was this peculiar characteristic of this country were in favour of these dis'airninating the supplies obtained from these respective countries— duties so as to have a monopoly of our C o l on i es , the timber obtained from the north of Europe was Ile did not believe that our manufacturers of the good and was cheap, and that from North Ame- present day held any such doctrines—they had no rice was bad and was dear. Under these circumstances greater love for the trade of our colonies than for the the House had to learn in what proportion the supply trade with foreigners. The States forming the Cora. of this necessary article was imported from these res- mercial League were very shortly to meet, in order to pective countries. Three-fifths of the timber consumed settle the terms upon which it should he continued, and was imported from the country where it was bad and it very much depended upon ourselves in what relation was dear, and less than two-fifths from that country to them we would stand. He hoped the Hose would where it was good and was cheap. If any person see the necessity of affording him an opportunity of should ask what could induce the consumers of this stating his views in Committee. country to act in a manner so opposite to the ordinary Mr. WARI3URTON seconded the motion. dealings of sane men—he would be answered that the Mr. Alderman THOMPSON was opposed to the Legislature had imposed a duty of 555. per load, on the principles of the Hon. Gentleman, and would find it his timber that was good and was cheap , and dut y to o pp ose them at an y p eriod of the Se ssion , Th: a duty of only ten shillings per load on Hon. Member said he would be met with the old silo,. y that which was bad and was dear. Consequently there of our " Shipping and Colonies." He trussed the was an inducement of 450 per cent. to consume that House would ever lend a willing ear to that old story—. which was the most destructive, and the most incenve- they were second to no interest in this country. If the nient, and the most injurious to the consumer. Hon. Gentleman had carefully looked at the evidence He believed that the question respecting the quality given before the Committee of 1835, he would find that if was not disputed by those who sought to maintain there were any greatly increased demand for timber in the present duties. Their argument was not that the the north of Europe, the price would be greatly timber was as good and as cheap on one continent as enhanced, because the timber was now all cut down on on another, but they argued that the timber of the the banks of navigable streams, and increased expenses north of Europe was so superior that if any alteration must be incurred in getting it. According to the plan was made in the duties, the consumers would seek proposed by the Hon. Member, there would be no exclusively for timber where it was best and cheapest. bounty given to Canadian timber at all, as the prices of He would refer to the Report of the Select Com- that and the Baltic timber would be very nearly assimi mittee of the House of Lords, to estaclish what he lated. It must be remembered that Canada took four had stated respecting the qualities of the article. That millions a year of our manufacturers, while her returns Report stated that the timber of North America, in in produce was only 2,500,0001. The Hon. Member every respect for which timber could be used, whether said the Canadians did not care for the protection, but for the building of ships or for the building of houses, in 1836, when there was a rumour of a ehane b e, the Le was infinitely inferior to that of the North of Europe. g islature of Canada p etitioned his Majesty for protec- The Committee of the House of Lords, had called be- tion, as they stated any change would reduce their trade fore them several well-informed persons, who had con- one-third and throw out of employ upwards of 8,000 firmed this view of the subject. All the persons who persons. The Hon. Member vas mistaken in suppos had been called before the Committee of 1835, had ing that the vessels made two voyages in the year—not confirmed the views which had been taken eleven years more than one in three did, and that made the before ; and if any doubt existed on the subject, there number of ships employed twelve thousand, em s were two circumstances which would satisfy every one ploying, no less than twenty thousand searivsn, of the justice of the statements. The fact was that this If they transferred the timber trade to the Baltic, timber was ordered not to be used in any of the Dock- they would lose the Canadian trade, and throw the yards, and a special provision was inserted in every whole carrying trade into the hands of thesse countries building contract that the timber of America should not forming the league. Besides, look at Cie time when it be used. There was one fact that seemed to dispense was proposed, when the people of Canada were in re with the reference to any individual, namely, that hellion ; our only hold upon them was our trade : it the timber bore a very different price in the this question were now opciied it would encourage a market. The next point to which it was im- wish for a separation frs,m the mother country. There portant to draw the attention of the House, was the were other considerations than the late pe r iod of the pecuniary loss the country sustained in consequence o f Session for opposing the motion, and he trusted the being compelled to import the dear and inferior article. House would resist it. The public lost from a twofold source—from the dif- Mr. WARBURTON was surprised the Right ference in quality and price. There were four forms in Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade # which the wood was introduced—the fir timber, the oak appeared to he disposed to let this motion pass without timber, the manufactured timber, called deals, and staves, an observation. When he (Mr. Warburton) used to which were of great use. Upon estimating the differ.. bring a similar motion before the Holse;:h O t pi rA nio ig n h :. ence in the price and the quality it would be found, lion. Gentleman used to cheer him, and he hoped the that upon every load of the fir timber which was brought Ri g ht Hon. Gentleman had not changedi hi, into this country there was a loss of 21. ss, and the like The Hon. Member opposite had dwelt as usual on the loss took place with respect to oak ; on deal there was number of ship-builders and shipping that would be a loss of 171. and on staves 38/. This produced, ac- thrown out of employment if a tree trade in timber cording to the calculation he had made, a loss alto- were agreed to. He (Mr. Vsrarburton) did not be gether of 1,500,000/., in consequence of theibounty that liege that that would be the case ; but why did they not was given for the importation of this inferior wood. establish a good system of colonization ? Again there The Hon, Member for Dundee, in his work upon the would be a source of immense employment for shippi ng a fre o e uld sys e t p e e m n subject, had estimated the loss at one million ; in the corn trade, and by their adopting and one witness, who was examined before of colonial trade. By so doing they would lower the the Timber Committee had stated the loss to the price to the consumer in this country, an d w country in twenty years to be no less than 30,000,0001. immense markets for the_ employment_ of shipping. He There was another mode by which the revenue sustained believed n oth o in f g th would force the Legisla,:iturisv-eoottoo the a loss, and that was in consequence of the manner in consideration hoped subject until they were which the duties were imposed. By that means alone alternative (as he they would be) a imposing ad the revenue lost 12s. on every load. He thought the ditiona taxes, or opening their ports for the importation country ought not to sustain such a loss unless it was of goods from the cheapest market, and finding new shown that it was a necessary evil, and that the advan- l c employment . fortheir shipping in the various wave tages derived from having that species of timber coon- which hehad pointed out.—(Hear, hear, hear.) tervailed the loss. He believed that the advantages n, and not till then, would the almost exploded were in no proportion to the loss. In 1835, a Com- doctrines of free trade be again viewed with some mittee of that House had recommended a change had in favour . by the Legislature. It was needless for him to the mode of adjusting the duties, by w hich he been . go into details on this question, as he had very fully ex informed it had been calculated the revenue would gain pressed his opinions before the Committee on the upwards of 1,000,000/. Why that recommendation timber duties. He still entertained the opinions he had had not been adopted he did not know, but he was con when a timber merchant, and he believed the time would vinced that it ought to have been. The_ importance of come w h en th ey wou ld aga i n hav e recourse to that this subject to the labouri n g classes could not be ov er - s y s t em un der which, prior to the establishment of this rated when the consid er ed the situation in which monopoly, the country and its trade had flourished. y thousands of that class were placed.—(Hear, hear, Mr. P. THOMSON did not think it was one hear.) From an account that he had re ce i ve d re l at i ve o f t h e necessar y d u ties of a person filling his to Stockport there were no less than 1,253 f am ili es s it ua ti on to g et up at any particular time which living in damp an d dark cellars, where they were su bj ec t m ight be selected by any particular Hon. Member. to fevers and v arious other diseases. In many instances His Hon. Friend the Member for Bridport bad dealt a two families were huddled together in the same room. little hardly with him when he expressed astonishment This might be prevented if this very necessary article of at his not rising immediately after the Hon Memberhis own,— building coul d be p rocure d at a cheaper rate. If gen- who had sp oken onl y secoisd in the debate. — (Hear.) tleinen woul d refer t o the Reports of the Poor-law and His (Mr. P. T h o mson ' s) ob j ect was to hear the o p inions ot h e r Commissioners they wo u ld fi n d that statement of other Gentlemen 'before he interposed h fully borne out. Good timber was a very necessary part (Hear, hear.) He was glad the Hon. Member for of the dwellings of the poor. He had been much struck Wolverhampton had brought this subject under the at with the words of a l a t e wr i ter w h o gave an accou nt of tention of the Hou se, but if h e (Mr. P. Thomson) his travels in Norway—he said the labouring population found that discussion on such subjects did not meet with of Norway were muc h better, and more comfortably due attention from the House, it would be unbecoming floors, with w ooden lodged th an th e i r f e ll ows i n E ng l an d, S co tl an d, an d I re . in him to bring t h e m for ward, unless be thought a prac land ti ; their dwelling-houses were divided into different tical effect would he p ro d uee d .— (H ear, h ear. ) I n floors and plenty of windows,n 440 year 1835 he l oad obtained a Committee, and EVENING Ear rICYN. THE SITN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, JULY 10, 1839. EVEN ING ED I TION.