The Sun. — London, England, 1821-04-03 00:00:00

bes presenting a petition from only the smallest parish of the five composin t ;; the Borough of Southw a rk, w as a . proof that ha(Six R. Wilson's) statement was right. He noped the Eton. Member would bring proof to the contrary if he could, as he would, at least, have the inducement of causing one Member from that side of the House to withdraw ; for if he hoci..not the - concurrence of the majority cf his constituents for his conduct in that House, they were welcome to take his seat bona kim. He was, however, convinced, that the lion. Gen tlecr.an, upon further inquiry, would find, that the sentiments of theinhabitants of Southwark on the subject of the Roman Ca tholic Claims were very, different from what he represented alifl23 to be ; and notwithstanding the Clergyman of St. Saviour's Parish conceived that IS they were"" anted, Sunday would no longer be a day of religion but a day 'of profaneness, licen &in-sliest; and crime, he still was of - tiPinicm, that it was' the s.iteat course for House to yursue. The petition was or-" tined to be priht&l. Mr. IL DAVlSpreiented a petition from the Parish of St.- agmnst the Roman Catholic Bills.—=Ordered to belinted.„ at W. : SCOTT prey a similar Pe6tion from Christ ii:finrcti s Canterbury—Ordered to be 41rinted.. Ai% PEEL presenicd a iimilwr Petition from the Royalllurgh of Dumfries, Nortb Britain.--Laid on the table, and ordcr:red to be • • " • ' , • A Gentleman from the Office of the .chief Secretary of Ire - 44,a4 presented an aceounc of the Expenditure of the new Post INiblin.—Laid on the Labia. Ibdenture ofApT?rentieei Bill 'was read a second time, ar...1 ordered to- Le committed on,Thursday next. IRISH BILLS. -- 711eCaiitm or.lii4tice (Ireland) Bill' went through a Com mittee ; the Report was received by,the House, and ordered for 1 - ,4.-1.7 - it:r consideration on Friday next. - - The Irish Prison Pets Bili, and Irish Oer.cral Sessions Bill," iv.!te read a second time. , • SUNDAY NEWSPAPERS. Mr. BUT TERWORTII moved for an account of all the "Weekly Newspapers" üblished in the Metropolis, and a state =m it of the amount of revenue derived from their stamps.-- thdered._ SCOTCH BURGEI,S3. Zeor d - A. HAMILTON presented a Petition from the Bur ' gee ere.seind Members of the Guildry of EdinbUrgh, complaiping I.t the 'very improper and corrupt manner in which their Ma keet-elites have been elected. The Petitioners stated, that in Etpet Of obtaining redress at law, they instituted actions in the Curt of Session, and incurred an expence of nearly £3,000 ; . teat, they obtained judgment in that Court, bpi that they then hovered that the judgment was not binding that they axiother jiidvient, which also proved ineffectual ; that the 3lagiat.ates threw every - legal impediment; and every formal e. 7 e,' - ection, in the way of the Petitioners obtaining redress ; and thet.in fact; they had to hope of obtaining relief but from the interebraice of Parliament. .;:rlr. ABERCROMBIE assented to all the statements of th e P 4-tition • there.neVer was a Petition presented to P ar li a me n t' Which ha d stronger claims on public attention. He hoped that ample justice would be don e t o the parties. M Mr. IV. DUNDAS said, that with respect to the particular' eaee of the Petitioners, the-question simply Was, that two par.. tieshaving-had a dispute,. they unwisely went to law, and in.; cierred expence. One party .(the Petitioner!) not having suc- I eee'tied at law, sought for aid from Parliament; The Right reaue Member contended, that the cast "of the Petitioners was Let one , which called for the interference of that House. • • 3lr. HUME said, the Petition was from individuals who had tamed that the Right Honourable Gentle Mari (Mr. W. Dnn "deo was illegally elected, and had obtained a decision of the Ceeirt. of Session to that effect. The Right Honourable Gen ie:reign had cons:qulently sat in the - House two Sessions 'Was it to be Wondered; therefOre, •that he should ::commend thepetitioners to put an end to all their differences? 7 4 - hat the petitioner's complained of was, that individuals who -s--eyed-under abusei in the Scots Burghs, could get no redress, azel - were.oyerwhelmed with expences. • The petitioners com.., j.qained that th e self-elected• Nts. & istratcs had squandered .. -- 17,11,000 of the public property. Did the Right Hon. Gentle neezi recollect that the individuals who petitioned were ensiver e;ele for the debts contracted ? The Right Hon. Gentleman :;id. them to wait till the subject. came opt of a Committee 7.'ne. Right Hononiable Gentleman must have imagined that he vre:., speaking to persons ignorant of the • proceedings of that herr !)—for they had shewn.no disposition tee:lY , Reform;.though no one had strewn so little disposition to' •es - the Right Honourable 'Gentleman himielf. The Right • kionourable Gentlenian asked the Petitioners to have•patience. c2ley had had patience from year to year, and now they at last carte-fon...aid to ask fcr redress against those self-elected Ma eitirates to whom the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Dundas) ‘ 7 7 , 14 - so much. : air It. FERGUSSON observed, that as the Petitioners could e.c; no redress liórn . COurts of Law, it was very natural that d..y.should tit: n their attention to that House. He decidedly o. ) ..7:ectedte refer the Petition to the Co mm itt ee on S cots B urg h s, 'Thr that Committee . had come to Resnlutions entirely fatal to.all izquiry—alear ll.. The Members had shown themselves so i;o tide to any inquiry that hr (Sir' R. - F.) had withdrawn -from ILA:, Committee, and another Member had followed his ex- The Noble Lord (Lord A. Hamilton) • from a sense el- duty remained in . the Chair, but without the least hope - of Coing any good. - Toe LORD ADVOCATE defended the jCommittee.. It. . , M be recollected, he observed, that the Committee had . b,:co appointed three years ago, and that it had made Reports ut..examplod, - he believed, in Minuteness. So far from •their 1 - ‘aitig . stopped all inquiry, they h a d reso l ve d, i n ev e r y one in saike whieli . the Pet:toners had complained, that the abuses erz; riplained of: did exist. Ai to 'the nature of the remedies, t. - ;4ere..Was a difference of opinion between the , Committee d tiic , - Petitoners, but it could npt be sa that they had resisted 41 - inquir i y, when tliey had inquired id nto and admitted'all the agiertions of the Committee; Lord A. HAMILTON said he-would confi r m th e assertio n, 6:st:the Court of S . :-ision had come to two deti'sions in favour of . .the petitioners. As to the Committee on Scots Burghs, an other opportunity would tome for entering into their proceedings; tu t t.he..wonderW how it could be said that they hail never - re sikted in • t 4 ,uiry, when in two instances it.was urged - by himself, arlit., lir his lion. Friend behind him, and refused. It was itSiird to refer the petitioners to a. Court of Law, when the self c.4:l.cti Magistrates might legally put the money of the Burgh into their own pockets, and laugh at.the Burgesses. • . . A.ftprJl few words from. Mr.. J. P. ORAN I f, the petition was ordered to be - The 1 1 ,14rquess of WORCESTER presented a Petiton from Parish cf Clifton, Gloucestershire, against the Catholic _ . _FIUME presented a Petition from Chilley,.. a pri ar,t•er- Ilcliester (laol, who complained of ill-treatment— (lr&.scd. to lie on the table: • • - • - • • CP..ffi(E P. Withdrew-his.notice of to-morrow, respecting the baths taken before the Lord Steward. mcvecl for Accounts of the Officers. on Half cf efe, Pensions and Allowancaa granted under the Uttli CI Geo. r tf, , ordered. , • Fiord PA LM!...R.STON iai3d various Accounts relating to the ArrilLEEtinrates_on the table. "Idr. }INE, after a question to the Chancellor of the Ex;. &Ape:, moved for a Statement of the Accounts of the Public v:-ft J. Ford - jal Esq. late Receive r -li enera l o f S cot l an d , an d with *f.A. , .?r:i i Esq.—Ordered. P.C.:MAN CATHOLIC BILL. • 'ThA Order of the Day for the third readin 7, of till Rorran Catholic Disabilities Removal Bill beiiag reaci, • 41r. firtorcEr. rose to ask the Right Hon.. Bart. whPtiirr he had any more amendments to propose to this Bill. ' Sir joav kinwportT was understood to say that at present he could not answer the question, but if the Hon. Gent. would only wait a little time he - could judge from the turn which the debate - would take.. Cao Kza saki his only reason for asking the •wit-Stiori was to 'earn whether these new amend ments might Lot at a future• time ,fodUce another debate: Sir W. SCOTT confessed that as faras he was. ;dile to forma- judgment - of the Bill, the' expecta tions of-any improvement. of. it, so as to obviate! the. objections to which it had. been open, had not been realized. After commitments and re-'. cisMinitments, and all the elaborate attention that had been bestowed on it; the Bill came before them worse than it was before, In the instances' dflforther Bills, for the same purpose, -they had diisltisfied one party only. But by this Bill all ides were dissatisfied; the party who objected to it; and those whom it was to conciliate.--(Hear,' hear, heard)--The other party, the House, had, stin.equal reason to be di ssa tisfied. They had no su;:cess in - the manufactory of conciliation which they had -set . up. - Their machinery- had - totally failed, and it had turned out a bankrupt adven- tare. It was said, that the Catholic Noblemen fore the Ilouee went to do away with Protestant and Gentlemen were feietadly_te the Bill, He Counsellors by opening th e door to Catholics. . did not derogate from the merit of those Neble= It put both the property and,.theevligion of this men and Gentlemen, but he could - not look: to country in peril—it admitted Catholics to be them as proper,guides, in point of faith, in _pre, [Members of 'the Privy Council, to be Governors ference to the assemblies convocated Under the of Colonies, and what was still more tremendous, proper Ecclesiastical authority. Resolutions had it allowed, them to act as Sheriffs, 'and , it gave been passed in Ireland, almost by unanimity, them seats in Parliament. He felt alarm for the against the Bill. One Petition,too, had been pre- use that might be made of the power given to the sented to the House from an Ecclesiastic, who had Catholics acting as Sheriffs -in Ireland ; they been treated with a considerable degree of free- would have the right of selecting juries, and dom. - He (Sir W. S.) was not qualified to enter, above all, they would be authorised to return into a defence of that Gentleman, but helcould say Members who were elected to sit in that House. that he (Sir W. S.) respected the learning, he Ile thought the danger of admitting Catholics to respected the zeal, he respected the integrity, Parliament had been undervalued-, and considered which he had displayed, in the defence of his the measure to be revolutionary, because, while tenets, and he should have been glad to see him it relleYed the Catholic from the old oath of Su eneottntered, in an effectual manner, by his premacy, it. required the - Protestant to take it. more conciliatory brethren, The first thing No catholic Was„to take the old oath, and after which he had to remark on was the celebrated this Bill passed-, without any hypocriticism, he exposition of. the meaning of the oath of supre- _did , not see- how any Protestant could swear, macy. This exposition _was withdrawn, and he " that the Pope neither has . nor ought to have should treat it with the indulgence due to the any power -in this realm." In his opinion, no dead.' It was the first attempt ever made to ex- conscientious Protestant, after the passing of the plain an oath in a different. manner from that in , Bill . now. before the House, could take this which it had been understood for centuries, and oath. His conviction was, that this Bill would he trusted that, for the credit of Parliament, it not prove a measure of conciliation. The Ro would. be the last. The Learned and Right man Catholic Clergy and 'Laity, he knew, Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to argue, were now united against it. They gave it on the authority of the Protestant and Catholic every opprobrious name—they called it " The writers, that the explanation which bad been Slavery Bill," " The Bill; of Insults," and there fixed upon the Oath of Supremacy by the sup- was no epithet—no word too insulting to be ap porters of the Bill was erroneous, and to contend plied to those whom they sneeringly called " their that it was the power which the Catholic faith advocates."—ln Dublin, last week, the Titular. gave to a foreign Prince over the consciences of Archbishop, Dr. Troy, assembled the Clergy, the believers, which made them dangerous sub- and though they were more moderate than the jects. fie cited from Selden, Locke, and Clar- Catholics in other parts, they bad come to cer endon, passages to prove that it was in this light tain resolutions, declaring that they could not as that the Catholic doctrine had been viewed by sent to the provisions of the Bill for regulating them. He then quoted the words of Blackstone the intercourse of the See, of Rome, or to that to the same purpose, and laid particular stress on which sanctioned the intermeddling of the Go the following passage, where it is said, that ".as vernment with the appointment of their Bishops. to Papista, what has been. said of the. Protestant The.next place in which this matter had been de- Dissenters, would hold equally strong for a ge- bated was Limerick. There, as in Dublin, the neral toleration of them ; provided their separa- Roman Catholic Bishop had felt it his duty to tion was founded only upon difference of opinion call the Clergy together, and they had come to in religion, and' their principles did not also ex- certain resolutions, disapproving of the proceed tend to a subversion of the Civil Government.-- ings in that House on the Bill before them,which If once they could be brought to renounce the were stronger than. those previously come to at supremacy of the, Pope, -they might quietly ene Dublin. Their resolutions declared that there joy their seven Sacraments, their purgatory and were clauses in the Bill in question with which auricular confessions, their worship of reliques no Catholic could conscientiously agree—that and images, nay even their transubstantiation.— these clauses tended to endanger and ultimately But while they acknowledge a foreign Power to subvert the Roman Catholic religion in Ire superior to the Sovereignty of the Kingdom, land.- When -such resolutions- were agreed to, they cannot complain if the laws of that king- where the Roman Catholic Bishop had called his dom will not treat them upon the footing of good Clergy together,, he. would appeal to the House if subjects." lie went on to say, that the house there.were.notaufllcient indications of discontent was taking a most momentous step, no less than. to induce them to pause before they adopted this undoing what had continued to stand as,an integ- Bill as a measure of conciliation. He hoped the ral part of th e C ons tit u ti on o f th e R ea l m , f rom N oble L ord , the, Rt. Hon. Member for Liver the Reformation down to the present time. With pool, and the Rt. Hon. and Learned Gentleman regard to the oath of supremacy, as proposed in its who brought this Bill into the House, would see modified shape, it was a very great departure from the case was different from what they had sup the principle acted upon in ,all preceding times posed, and as nothing could more distinctly shew and which recognised a full and undivided alle- the feeling of the people of Ireland on the sub glance. He then read the words of the oath, and ject than the resolutions he had read, he could said, be could not help agreeing with Dr. hardly think that any one would be so absurd as Milner, that it was quite certain no Catholic to persevere in the Bill with a view to conciliate could take the oath ; he proceeded to areue the Catholics of the Sister Kingdom. Another upon the nature of full and undivided allegiance, Resolution had passed at the Limerick Meeting , which consisted "in spiritualibusl' as well as "in for calling a general meetiug'of the Roman Ca temporalibus." In the former the Catholic felt tholics as soon as possible, to petition the Lords himself bound to acknowledge the supremacy of against the obnoxious clauses contained in . the the Pope, who, as Bishop of Rome, had an au- Bill. An aggregate meeting had also taken thority in his own diocese, but none properly any place of the Laity of the City and County_ of where else, unless it was conceded to him by Limerick.. At this meeting the parties had. de other. Governments; but no such concession had dined proceeding to business . till they had been been made by.. the British. Constitution. To es- informed of what had passed at the meeting of tablish a relig ion by law, which was in th e k ee pi ng th e Cl ergy . Then, very. strong resolutions had of a Foreign Sovereign, was inconsistent with its been come, to. Some Gentlemen present had genius and spirit, and to regulate the intercourse protested against them, and had complained that " in spiritualibus" with. that Foreign Sovereign sufficient - notice of the meeting had not been was to regulate a practice which the Constitution given. But these were immediately answered, never recognised. The words of the former oath, and compelled to confess, that ample time had which denied the legality of foreign interference, been afforded for those to attend who wished were sweeping and universal : if it were the in- to de so. • The protest against the resolutions tention of the Legislature to reserve the spiritual had been signed by. thirty-six persons, and this power to the Pope, it would have expressed it. had been treated in various publications with the He asked Gentlemen to recollect how the power greatest ridicule and contempt, and the resolu e of the Roman Pontiff was spoken of inthesolemn tions had been considered as the universal de service of our church. - The passage was so fa- claration of the Catholics. lie considered the miller to them that lie did not think it necessary Chairman of the meeting, Mr. Roche, to be a to quote it. He made. a few observations on the most respectable character, but the more respec functions to be exercised by the Commissioners table he was, and the more respectable the meet according to the. Intercourse Bill, of which he ins, the more strongly did it speak the sentiments did not approve. He remarked, that there was of the _Catholics ; and sure he was, that had such no provision made in the Bill against Monastic a meeting appeared, in support of the views of Institutions, and that the mixed commission of those opposed to him on this occasion, that they Catholics and Protestants was a double-headed were fully competent to represent the people of monster.' Ile entreated the House not to put, the Ireland. The Laity had, in the meeting in Protestant community in danger of losing that question, come to strong resolutions against the vantage ground which they - had acquired by Bill, especially • deprecating the attempt made stVuggling through two 'centuries of suffering and op the part of the Crown to obtain a right of in blood. We were only now .recovering from the terferencee with the nomination of their Bi effects ofthat protracted conflict, 'and the country shops, w hi c h th e y stated must create jealousies, ought to enjoy the benefit of some repose—(lleac, and by consequence, _diminish the securities hear! from •both sides of . the House.)—Other for the Throne -end Empire. .Besides those he considerations might suggest themselves to other had already mentioned, meetings were announc minds ; but for himself he would say, now and ed of the Clergy and Laity for the City and at all times, that Whoever the persons were who, County of Waterford, and also for the County under any circumstances, went about to remove, of Cork. One had been called by Doctor the ancient, laud-marks' of the Constitution, he Coppinger for Cloyne—one for Galway, and 'one would for one oppose them.—(Hear, hear!)— for the Diocese of Team. At the .Limerick The _Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman con e meeting reference had been made to the send chided by moving, as an Amendment, that the meats-avowed in 1813, and these had again been Bill be read a third time that day six months. taken up. He did not mean to speak of those • Sir G. Hue considered this Bill to .be most who attended with disrespect. On the contrary revolutionary in its character, as it went-to put he knew the individual who presided to he A down the ancient landmarks of the Constitution, man of most'excetlent and exemplary character; and to recognise for, the first time that against but then he contended the more conscientious and which the legislation of our ancestors had been respectable those whO had "come to the - resolu particularly directed—a right of interference .tions in question, less prospect was there of corning with the subjects of this country. on the part of to any satisfactory understanding with them. the See of Rome, He had heard it argued on Dr. Coppinger had declared the oath contained I this occasion, for the first time, that the Consti- in the Bill to amount to an abj4ration of the Ca- I tution of this country was not essentially Protes- tholic Faith ; and was therefore of opinion that it I tant. Taking the Constitution as it was esta- ought to be indignantly rejected by every good 1 blished at the Revolution, he she wed that the Roman Catholic. Mr. O'Connell had also spoke. I Bill of Rights had . been particularly directed against it, and therefore there was little prospect, against Popery ; and in that the Oaths of Alle- if it passed, of its proving a measure of "concilia giance and Supremacy were enacted, which were tion. lie had no hesitation in saying, that it was now to be altered ; and therefore he considered the object of a vast body in Ireland (but he the present Bill to be a very revolutionary mea- did not charge this generally on the .: Roman sure. It was -provided in , that -Bill that this, Catholics) to gain the Church of Ireland, and . country • must .be governed - by a Protestant that object they were satisfied they could not Prince, and also, that that Protestant Prince must. obtain without a separation from this country:lle. have Protestant Counsellors. The Bill now be- proceeded to shew that the oath which required the Catholic to pledge himself not to attempt, directly, or indirectly, the overthrow of the Church of England, was held 'by Dr. Drum goole to be opposed to the duty of a good gatho lic ; And he read from a p am phl e t sonia para graphs, in which the Doctor-deilared his con viction thatAthe Catholic Chucch,would stand in spite of all opposition, and that finally it would be again placed under a Catholic King and a Catholic Parliament. lie also sheered, from the correspondence between Mr. Fox and Mr. Ryan, that the views of the Catholics extended farther than the supporters of the present Bill seemed to suspect. The Protestant Gentry and Yeomanry of Ireland, who in wealth far outstripped the Catholics of that country, would in his opinion have their property placed it► jeopardy by this Bill, subjected to the decisions of a Catholic Judge, and not having their rights defended in Parliament as they were at present. With these opinions he was bound to oppose the Bill, though, should the measure unfortunately pass, he promis. ed the House—himself—his Sovereign, and his Country, that his best exertions should be used to guard against provoking the evils which he feared were likely to arise from it. Captain O'Ga,tey would not have risen, but for the attack which the Hon. Baronet had made on the place with which he was connected.. The Right Hon. Baronet had in the first place taken the Meeting at Limerick as offering a criterion of the feelings of the people of Ireland. He would have said the same had the Catholic Gentry known of the pretended Aggregate Meeting, but this opportunity had not been afforded to.them, and the Meeting which took place was but an importation under the management of Mr. O'Con ❑el. The Gentry knew nothing of the matter till they saw the Resolutions published as ex pressing the sentiments of the City and County. He had received a letter from a Gentleman who was present at the Meeting, who described it to have consisted of persons of the very lowest. classes. The chairman was a' most respectable person, but he was sorry to see him made the tool of a faction on that occasion. Counter reso lutions had been come to by the Gentry on the 'following day, disclaiming all participation in or approbation of the Meeting calling itself an Aggregate Meeting, and expressing their convic tion that the Catholic Gentry, if apprised of it in time, would have attended to adopt Resolutions of a very different character, and of a conciliatory na ture. They expressed their gratitude to the Right. Honourable Gentleman who .had brought this subject forward, and hoped that he would perse vere till he effected his object, and accomplished the emancipation of his countrymen. These Re solutions had been signed by 39 Catholic Gen tlemen, and the document was not the less vale able for having attached to it the names of the only four Roman Catholics who were Magistrates in the county. With respect to the Chairman of the former Meeting, be had to remark, that from a letter which he had received from Mr. Roche on the subject, he could not but conclude that if he approved of the Resolutions come' to by the Meeting over which he presided, he must.; have experienced a very sudden change in his sentiments. -Colonel Frr.zaintox considered the It;solu tions read by the Hon. Baronet to have been par tially selected, and did not regard them as giving a correct idea of the sentiments of the Catholics of Ireland. Mr. S. RICE (City of Limerick) complained of the want of candour of the Rt. Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir G. Hill). When he drew the attention of the House to the Resolutions which he held in his hand., why had he sedulously all-. stained from going into the merits of the Protest, and acquainting the House with the character and respectability of the individuals who signed it ? He begged to remind the House, that the dis satisfaction of the Roman Catholic Clergy of Ireland had arisen, , ill a great measure, from a clause in the original Bill, by which they were subjected, i,n certain cases, 'to the penalty of, transportation : The clause was, in fact, a mere blunder in the Bill as it originally stood, and it was now removed. The Hon. Member begged to call the attention of the House to a passage in a letter from an eminent Catholic, which he had alluded to on a former night. That individual stated his firm conviction, that if the Bill should pass, even with the restrictions which the Go vernment might find it necessary to impose upon the Catholic Clergy, all the restless and dissa tisfied spirits of Ireland would , be found trifling in the scale of the Empire. He added, that the securities required by the British Government were no more than other Protestant Governments had thought it necessary to require. He (Mr.R.) had never said that the Catholics were unani mously, in favour of the present measure.— To expect unanimity in a question like this, involving so many complicated considerations, and exciting the passions and interests of so large a portion of the community, would be to expect a moral and political miracle, which never had happened; and never would. If there was one part of Ireland more than another in which some irritation was likely to be felt, it was the county of Limerick, for there the recollection of the capitulation of Limerick was perpetually brought, home to the Catholics:---the recollection of that Treaty, which, if it had been faithfully kept, would have saved Ireland all the animosi- Ces and civil dissensions by which it had been torn, and have given her at once that tranquil-- lity which, he trusted, this Bill was calculated to afford.—(Hear, hear !)—While he supported the present measure, which he considered a com promise between the entire demands of the Ca tholics on the one hand, and the extravagant fears of the Protestants on the other, he could not disguise his opinion, that securities were al together unnecessary, and that the conduct of the Catholics, had not been such as to justify them. Sir G. Hirt explained. He had given the House distinct and full information as to the existence of the Protest. Mr. C. ITUTCLIINSON, after complimenting the Hon. Member for Limerick, said, that standing there as the unworthy representative of a family who had now and always stood up in support of the Catholic Claims--advocatin& that great and righteotis cause upon the principles of entire and unqualified emancipation, he wished to offer rt few observations to the House, in explanation o f f the.line of conduct he in ant•to pursue. It wals t imeosible,. but: that. a measure carrying with it ; heavs.penal enajtments should meet with softie 'whoK)bjectsed ansL.,lie• Z'ouPh.not, had a seat in that House, submit that' such leer-' sons should be charged, as they had been . by his Hon. Friend, as tools of faction, riotous spirits, and public agitators. Because, if they :were to be so denominated, he also must be a tool of fsc lion and an agitator ; fer he, had joined in the ob jections which had called down upon them those reproachful epithets. Could it be said that Mr. Roche, the Gentleman who presided at the Limerick Meeting, was one of this description of persons I The Hon. Member here eulogised the character of this Gentleman. Ile thought it very likely that all the Irish Clergy might even tually object to take th e requ i re d oa th s; there fore, he could not suffer that those Gentlemen should by anticipation be aspersed, because they opposed what he apprehended was a highly penal enactment. He believed that it was quite in the power of the Noble Lord and the Right Hon. Member for Liverpool, still to modify the ag grieving clauses, so as to-, make the measure in eVery way unexceptionable. It was not his in tention to submit any motion, or any regular pro position to the House, but he did hope that the Bill would yet be re-committed, so as to go through the modifications which he had point ed out. He should not vote for the amend meat of the Right Honourable Member for Oxford, because that would go, if carried, to throw out; the whole measure ;' and there was no man who would he less willing to do 'that than hiMself. But he did- wish that the Bilk could be recommitted. If it was not, though he should not vote against the measure, yet he would not vote for it. He was ready to acknow ledge, that the Protestants had given up a great deal, and he thanked them for it. They had given up what was most difficult for man to re.. sign,—they had given up their prejudices. But all was rendered almost valueless by oaths re quired of the Clergy. Supposing, as he had a. right to suppose, that the Catholic Clergy should refuse to take the oaths. Such refusal was de clared to be a misdemeanour. To those who shotild hereafter receive orders, .this penalty" would not be sn great ; because they wo uld have the choice of taking them upon such terraFi or of choosing some other profession. But then there were many who had been in posseasien of their livings and cures for years, who had not the choice, and must either take the oaths, or , if they had conscientious scruples, be dragged t° a gaol. Supposing all the CathOlic . Clere throughout Ireland refuse .to take the oath, was the NOble Lord and his colleagues, and e vell his friends around him, prepared to ssYr that if they did so refuse,' the whole , bodf of the Clergy were to, be sent to gaol ? Whg t would be the consequenc e o f suc h a proceeding ? If, besides the 20,000 soldiers now in Ireland/ they should send all the troops in England an d Scotland thither, they would •not bc ,able quell.the indignant spirit of the people; If such an enactment were carried into effect. Hon. Member then argued that if the oath shou4 4 be generally taken, there was no need of a Ptlfr testant Board for deciding upon clerical appoint' mnts te4 . h lt was first maki ng th em t a ke th e oath? and, • di i l e .n h ot el b d el in ievi l e is tr i t , e a m nd al ft i cl o would not saying trlt lYe them. extract of a letterfrom a Catholic, who was fr" vourable to the general measure. Although l'e t was excessively anxious that it should p a ss, he could not - withhold his feelings against thi s clauses objected to. Ile stat:i:li that he adroi(-; ted the unjust severity with i7!!ich they press upon the Clergy, but must rely upon the ge; nerosity of the executi ve , an d th e m ild e xerc ise o'• the power vested in th e i n . Nov; he (Air. H.) nou ld not so trust, in a case of such momentous , i lllr portance, - to the humanity o f an i n d e fi n it e . Go ; vernment. Supposing th e Cl erg y to silb.lcc, themselves to th e p ena lty p rov id e d by the enact; ment, would the Magistrates act aa.ainSt theni; If they did, they would have the whole count''ry. up in rebellion : and if rebellion could be just e tied, it would b e under,such circumstances. 1 1 . 1 Hon. Member repeated his wi s h th a t th e 13' 11 should be re-committed, and his intention s ( not voting for it, unless they sho u ld. l eav e 0 0t altogether the machinery of that part fela ti4 to the veto. My. STEWART ‘ denied that the Lord Primate of Ireland was friendly to this Bill, as the Be" . Member had undertaken to say ; that,PrelW' on the contrary, intending to attend in his plac e in the House of LOrds for the purpose of v 9 -095 against it. Mr.l - luTermtsoN said, that he had merely re - ' putted what had been communicated to llit ll ./ without vouching f or it s au th e nti c ity,, but that 11 r- ; was very sorry to hear what th e H o n. Mernb e had just stated. Mr. Er.r.rs (Dublin) rose to enter his pro le against this bill, o f w hi c h th e fi rst part made t. : tl„, (." greatest alterati o n i n th e cons tit u ti o n of country, and of which the second part clepriy eu the nation of thos e advan':ages which aioo e " n 1 authorise the passi ng o f it. H e b ro ught to th e / consideration of thi s i m p or t an t que stion prep' experience of the feeli ng s o f tb , c , P r otestar i t habitants of Irel an d th an it W as poss ible fo r the R n fight Tio. mover of it f dave ever ar - r.i - Atred wi th his retired and unobtrusive H e stated that circumstanc e in artier that he might, in the name of the pe o pl e o f I re l an d , an d o f t h a t pro' fession to • wh; c h b ot h t h e P: ight H onou rable Gentleman dUd himself had r.te honour to belo n g , give a mo",t decided contra.dietion to the Rt. Hon. Gentl fl ,man's assertion r e l a tive to the, satisfitc ea. "which it would create. among tll sect s and classes in Ireland. Indeed those assertion? were most pointedly and decfeedly contradicted, in the petitions of the Protestant community 0 1 Ireland—(?loud cheers answered br /Duller laughter) —in the petitions which he bad bad the honour of presenting from Ow. city which be I . e" , presektted, th e se c o nd c ity iv* this mighty ernPr e '---(cheerS arid laughter as befotv)—in Chose petitions were the names of indivitluals of th e i . firsp rank and- characte r in Ireland 3, 'vita