The Sun. — London, England, 1821-03-08 00:00:00

not fail to consitth whether; if 'savings should be made by means of retrenchment, the amount of those' savings ought not rather to be applied to a reduction of the debt than to an immediate di minution of the taxes.—(llear, hear.)—lle great ly feared, therefore, that unless the House was prepared to give up all hopes of reducing the debt, it would be vain to expect any great relief to the agricultural interest by means of diminished taxation. He threw this out only for the purpose of expressing a confident opinion , that the Com mittee would take a judicious, a comprehensive, and a statesmanlike view of the whole subject. Still there were many persons who maintained that the only permanent relief was to be derived from the establishment of high protecting duties on every species of agricultural produce.. Indeed it could not be doubted that this was the direct object of the petitioners; it was almost in plain terms avowed to be so. Great pains had been- taken to produce a conviction amongst landed proprietors that it was the only system under which the interests of agriculture could be promoted. He had said, during the last Session, that he could not assent to the principle ; but great exertions had been made to mislead the public opinion on this point. Many persons be lieved that there was now a free import of various kinds of agricultural produce, which had been actually subjected to duty since the year 1812, and now yielded a considerable revenue. Such was the case with foreign sheep and other live stock, with a great variety of seeds, on which a. duty was imposed, that, without prohibiting their , importation, rendered it highly advantageous to the Revenue. It was so with cheese, butter, and a long catalogue of articles too various to be enumerated. If all these were to be excluded, th e Revenue would sustain a loss of about 6 00,0001. raised from what was generally sup posed to pay no tax at all. He could not conclude these few observations, without ex- Pressing thanks to his Honourable Friends, the -Mover and Seconder, for the , temperate and able manner in which they had introduced and treated this important subject.—(llear, 1) Cntering upon the inquiry in this spirit, they night be enabled tb accomplish much that would be useful ; but if they entered upon it with feel ings hostile to each other, and to the interests Which they espoused, it could produce no public advantage, and must terminate in disappointment. In the other case should their endeavours fail of realizing any great improvement, they would at least be attended with "the good effect of showing . that the. grand specifics which were sometimes . so loudly vaunted, were either impracticable, or if practicable, inexpedient. Perhaps if this con l'iction were spread, and there were no means so effectual for spreading it as that of showing that it resulted from the inquiries of a Parliamentary Committee, an object of no small value would he attained. With these views he should support th e motion of his Hon. Friend.—(Hear !) Mr. CurtweN was not disposed to reproach the President of the Board of Trade with inconsist ency, for not acceding to the appointment of a Committee in the last year. • Considering the view of the question taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman, he was not surprised at the course hich he had pursued on that occasion but he did not think the Right Hon. Gentleman'argued t he question fairly, becaus e the Right lion. Gen ;man thought the object of the advocates of the e titioaers was to prevent the importation of fo• re i gn corn. He disclaimed .any such intention. i he object of the Petitiouers was to put the English farmer on a footing with the foreign far iller• This was the only object of the advocates f this cause, though he would agree with the ;lon. Member, that granting a Committee would "e grateful to the feelings of the country at large ; but he could not agree with that Hon. 'lv,Tember, that no blame could be attached to his illajesty's Ministers for -not proposing some re- Medy. His Majesty's Ministers were. in a situa tion in which- they could have the best possible advice, and- they had sources of information . Which no other man had. Having these re sources,. and not having proposed any re medy, he must think them ignorant or the extent of th e distress. He considered the distress of such a nature, that if a remedy were not applied in time, before long it would be out of the power of Mi nisters to apply a remedy. 'He did not intend to exaggerate, he disclaimed such an intention ; but 'lie called upon the Noble Lord for retrench /neat, as the only means of saving the country fro m ruin ; and in doing so,, he could assure the house that he (M r . C urwen ) h a d no t i n hi s C ontemplation any violation of public faith by reducing the national debt. The taxation upon the income of the country paid in taxation 50 Per cent. In that income of 400 millions, t here was a reduction of 100 millions, and yet 44 11 this reduction the country was called upon (Pay in taxation upwards of 60 millions. If , •as some persons thought would be a remu i'rating p r i ce t o th e f armer , an d th a t a reduc fan of on e shillinga bushel would make a dif zs re ilet .of five millions to the agricultural- in- , e "rc•st,it was clear that a reduction of 3s. a bushel '`ould make a difference of 15 millions.. This 'f'duction having taken place, there was a de ficiency of ten millions in wheat alone ; in barley a ad oats 15 m illi ons , an d on o th er s t oc k t en mil lions. Here was a reduction of 40 millions, from 'hat the Legislature thought would be a fair re munerating price. It was thought that the amount of the agricultural property of the whole empire was 200 millions, and taking the diminu tion in Scotland and Ireland at 15 millions, there "tas a diminution of 55 millions on the whole agricultural property. If a tax of 20 per cent. Were laid upon agriculture as a remunerating Pric e , and that the capital, though being reduced by one quarter, still paid the same tax, it was tvident that agricultural property now paid at the rate of 261 per cent. It was this enormous taxation which the country was unable to hear, and it was the duty of Ministers to look to its diminution. Hon. Gentlemen.said, " lower your rents." The rental of the kingdom was about fou r hundred millions, and a reduction in the value of the lands had taken p lace equal t o 14 yew. of th a t rental. What alarmed hirn more than any thin g was the statement which had been made out at the other side to show the increase of the revenue by increaser' consumption. Could any man be- lieve that the capital and not the income of - the country was not spent. He would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman was there not a reduction in tobacco, the real comfort of -the poor ; there was also a great reduction in shoes. But with all these circumstances, it.still appeared that. France intercepted- supplies intended for this country, and •in June, 1819; corn fell, there 20s. a quarter. 'There came Mice from India equal to a.consump tion of two month's supply. There were even now 40,000 quarters. of- foreign wheat in the -market of this country ; if, after all:this, the agri culturists were left without protection even for three weeks, fifteen weeks' supply would be poly:- ed. into this..couutryi to the great injury and de struction of the. British grower. lie disclaimed those prices that bore hard on the manufac turing districts, he. only asked the. interests of grower- and courumer to he equally. considered. Would any one say. that low prices improved any party- If fifty millions. were now reduced, it was that that ruined, the home market of this conntry, which was the truly profitable market for any country. The return to cash payments might have had some effect ; but it was taking away this fifty millions that operated to the great evils of which the country now complained.: He. wished for no extremes: extremes 'in either way pro duced the same unhappy results. lie wished for no countervailing duties beyond what were ne cessary. The Poles said 12s. a quarter would completely repay them ; at eight shillings they would not complain. How, then, could the -English farmer enter the market ? The. Right lion. Gentleman said 600,0001. was produced to this country by the duties on foreign butter and cheese, and he was asked, would he resign that ? Certainly not. But he wanted to in crease it and at the same prevent the agri cultural distress. Eighteen millions of quar ters were consumed in England and Scot land, and only seven millions five hundred thou sand quarters were grown on particular or poor soils. Now, who that remembered 1796, could trust to the recurrence of such times, or look to it without horror? Again, it should be considered that this land was cultivated by about 300,000 persons, and at an ex-pence of 6,000,000/. ! It was said our distress now arose from over production. Good God ! must not the farmer ..be a madman. to produce by extra labour or capital .more than he could sell ? The reverse was the fact ; and if there were an appearance of over production, it was the worst sign of the times.lnformer times the manufacturer required fi ve acres to feed him ; now he was reduced to that of the labourer, to three acres ! The manufacturer was obliged now, to feed on potatoes and barley bread, while formerly fed on meat. What could inducE the farmer to wish his best customer to decline buying his commodity ? Ile regretted the Go-, vernment had not Much earlier taken up this ,subject; and if the GovernMent did not take-it, up, the people had a right to enforce it. .lle would: now put a challenge ;to the-Noble Lord, andlie, begged him to ask any thousand farmers he pleas-'• ed,- have you or have you.not lessened- your ex-: tent of labour? If that were true, if the. labour were so lessened, nothing more fully proved, the: deterioration of land. No man would say,this! was not to be met in every.-quarter, friendly or unfriendly to the Noble,,Ler.d. A Noble Duke, friendly, to the Noble Lor d,, had reduced his rents because his tenantscould.not pay him ; and he hoped the same results would generally hap pen. But it-so happened, unfortunately, that the complaints Id the people .were . not believed ; they were considered unfounded ; yet the truth wasp the greater the reduction of rent, the., greater the inability to meet the taxes generally. Taxes should be reduced. He would not shrink from avowing his opiniop—that all sorts of property should share in taxation. The first principles of society said, men should pay for their protection. He denied that the persons on his side of the House wished to taunt or annoy the 'Goverimient. - If any-thing were to be-done with the fund holder, it would be by --thee Noble Lord and his friends, and not by the 'Gentlemen at his side of the hi-louse. Economy- should take place, not 'of cheese-parings and candle-ends, but genuine and substantial economy. If, it (lid not, the same effects would happen here as did in France, when the Government-- were, perhaps,' the greatest of the sufferers. It would be idle to go into a Committee if ultimate relief were not intended. lie had often urged Ministers to relieve the peo ple in a spirit of conciliation. Was ever a country 'placed in the situation of Great Britain ? When every man looked up . to the qovernment of the Country with patience for relief, and were now trembling .on the brink of despair. . Public ruin would take place if thuse persons who pro fusely enjoyed the public money did not now re gorge it. Whatever the in fl uence of the Noble. Lord might hitherto Lave been, whateVer effect he was able, to produce on those who supported his measures,,unless a substantial economy took place it would not be for him to tell what was to follow. The present discussion was forced upon the country., It . was one ef the first and last importance to the stability -of the country. — He implored the ileuse..fullyan,d,attentively, to weighs it ; to look to the, people ; to pacify.; to: relieve them. ,No spirit against the Gov.ernment ,operated on this question ; it was one of vital im portance to the people of the country now, and not less so to their . posterity.—(Cries of hear !) , Mr. Wurrmon.F. rose„ bt4 was for several mi nutes inaudible in the gallery. We understood the Hon. Member to refer to .the averages at dif ferent given perieds_which lie stated, and to their influence upon the general question then under consideration.. lie then, in alluding to the situa tion of the .Empire, observed that he thought it would be the, best policy to- abrogate all the duties which restricted - commerce in; Ireland, except perhaps that . which related to corn, where perhaps, some protection was necessary for the English grower. In his opinion the main cause of the ,present distress.wastaxation.- 7 -(Hear!)— It was that which had so altered the prosperity of the country. It was,_ he thought, idle when particular interests. were affected: to fly to legis. lation, or merely t 0.104 at - the,particular laws af fecting any one species of commerce:. Vufortu nately that had been the course pursued ; (trait , • b. had raised: rviciotir. and: attificial sys'tein• whi'ch could,not now be altogether, laid aside. Of this description were the laws for keeping corn above its natural prke% was hoWeVet, Material' in considering this subject, to bear• in :mind that the rents of country had increased ,inAaropottieo to the risein.the price of produce- He then refer• red - to the, former Lords' Report, was framed in communication with the Beard of Agriculture. From that Report, the. cdst. bf . cultivating' 100 acres of land would, be seen at three different • intervals : In 1790. .. it was .. . ;cBB 6 '3i per acre. In 1603 19.1 71 per acre. In 1813 ' Pit 12 31 pefacre. Tithes had of courselncreased,' and rents,must.be deemedto have increased at least in a proportionate degree with the price of corn. The ll6n. lien bet.' then - illustrated . his "general observation by adducing the case of a Gentleman of landed. pro, perty, whose income. was necessarily reduced to such a" state,, by the distresses of the times, that he was utterly unable to pay the direct and indi , rect taxation which oppressed•him,. or to emploY those. persons to whom, under more. favourablecircumstances,, he was a large contrihntor. He also expressed his opinion -that it was no lOtiger politic to - force the . Cultivation, of corn in bad been the high prices; b la u n t d now Tit that l l ' o a ‘ d y doneiiad by the. it was. no longer expedient.to perseYere in cultivating that sort of land.' ft was not the interest of the coun try to keep it in cultivation, and the 'sooner it was put out the better. lie urged the impe rative" . necessity of eConotny to all the departments of the State : until arrangements to that effect Were imperatively adopted there was'no chance of promotingthe hiterestsofthe public.-_(dear.)The people of the.conntry were steadfastly loyal in their character; the never 'generally complained unless' when oppressed by intolerable "btirdens ; and when they found themselves in, such a situa tion, they were entitled to exact the most rigid economy on the part of their Rulers . . Entertain: lug these sentiments upon econoniy, he would state the reason why he - had not voted for the motion of an Hon. Member (Mr. Maberly) last night. His reason was simply this he feared the fallin - o - ' oil in the revenue'would be great - next year, and that with such a prospeet, •the House would not be justified in giving up such a.branch . of taxation. As to the Corn Laws them Selves, he thotight them very 'inadequate for their own ) purpoSes. When the price was 80s., th e ware houses must ,be thrown open ; .the cons equence ' from the quantity of foreign corn upon hand must' then be to reduce the market to such a degree as, at once to affect the property of a laro - ° e•pOrtion of the ei Although he: aid not country eon c i u n r a imnotsiie protectingtseriousdeg p e r r ce of 80s., .V e t he thought, situated as the country was;'sdme pric e. Was necessary. For that purpose' he 'thought it, would.be,much better. to refer to the principle" of the act of 1801, which was, when the price' was at a certain rate, to adrnit foreign_ corn sub ject to a duty : that duty, he thought ought to, be'Made variable according to a graduated: scale.' ; On the .subject of the resumption of cash pay.: ments by the llank,he did - not think that when that arrangemoit had been made, the inte - tats'ot the cotintry had been • as' carefully attended to as t t ie done h to s h a ve btlpeapO •Something : mu s t li n l support the la u d e d i n t ere st s of the Country, otherwise it was ii n pO ss ible' t h at . i l ejli l a°teulgyhtbe to that important dais of the community-could main tain itself as it ought for the public good. See the effect which would attend their, removal, from the sphere of their utility, or their being compelled to resort to cheaper countries, or hide themselves. in pOpulous towns. The effect would indeid •be' fatal if they were obliged to relinquish the offi ces which they now so diSinterestedly and gra tuitously filled for the benefit'of the Country.... Mr. lfosrwoon trusted that_ the public mind would not entertain any great hopes of relief from' the Committee, unless it were to go into 'an in-• quiry on the' subject of general - econiimv, for otherwise. those hopes 'would certainly be disap pointed. It had been - stated. by' an 11611. Gen-- genial); that the average price of wheat'frottil79o to 1795 had been 535. and that the average price. of wheat dating the last five years had 'been as high; but the Hon . . Gentleman 'bad not taken into consideratioO that the increase of - the Na tional Debt, froth' 1790 to 179 - 5; was • only 14,000,0001. whereas the increase during the' laSt five years - amounted to 40,000,0001., and conse quently the burdens• on the farmer ' mtist be much greater. Unless, therefore,a system of eco nomy were resorted to, in order to reduce the taxes 'on-the public, it was vain'to think .of affording relief by any legislative measure. If the rents in 1795 were in , the ratio stated by the Hon. Gentleman, let the country have at present the same army, the same number of secretaries, the same number of lords of the Admiralty,. and, the same salaries as in 17 95.—(hear, hear!)----LThe petitioners looked to that. house. for relief, and he hoped that they would not 'look in vain. He believed that the country could still maintain its - faith with the public crediter, if every pdssible measure of economy . Were ,tesotted•to.---(llear.) Mr. W. Buitacti said, that much of the - dis: tress of the agriculturist arose out of the magni tude of the Poor Rates. lie Was' sUrptised7to hear it proposed, that what was called the fens, or poor lands should be, thrown out of 'CultiVa,' Lion. Now it so happened, that-in his part - of' the country (Sussex) - such lands' were - among: the earliest cultivated lands in the kingdOrit. 13e-, fote coals were used, thoselands . Were cultivated . for the production of wood, and ever since,- though turned to different purpOses,' , they had . given employment to a numerous 'population. If they were to be put out of ctiltiiTation, he would ask what was to becoMe of that populatiOn ? .(11ear, hear!)-=-If such a proposition as this were. carried into effect,: the population must shift themselves intoother parishes, and•the country, lie believed, would thus he soon in a state of in surrection.—(Hear, head)—He had every :wish • to see economy practiced as extensively as pos-' sible, by his Majesty's Ministers, and, with that view he would support-the motion. Mr. TREMAYNE wished for the adoption of the severest economy, hut was not 'disposed to for an immediate remission. of taxation. The main stay of the country was economy and re trenchment. Ile wished the landed interest to . . be proteCted Onsti.he lic:t;od Would:be Lorne in hind, that the interestsof - the agricAltural classes wer'e inseparablY:bound up 'With . those of -every_ branch of the tounnunity . , _ Mr. J. Vionlyiour said - the man must bean idiot', or worse thtn *an' idiot; who could deny that every' class the Country ''stiffered from taxation. 'He had Voted' last night against the:motion he" then submitted to' 't •fioLise, Lt'- cauSe 'thk . :pioposition 'tad not appeared to hiM the most eligible that could be produced ; 'and he had votecnigainst . the motion' for the repeal of the Agridultural 'llorSe Duty, •beCatise, consider ing,thattO'be of little importance to have voted for the - motion, as if he had regarded it in a clif ferene light, would Lave been to lend him Self to a practical delusion: In . noticing what had been said on the subject of light soils, - he remarked that the finest wheats prodficed . at the London markets came from Essen and Sussex, and were raised on lands, the cultivation, of which -WaS . as' difficult , and: as hazardOuS . as that of any part Of the - Conntry. - He had - a paper in his hand Which contained the experience of an individual fOr the last 'thirty years:: If this - contained but a dish - of lies, - he initst . throw 'up the case ; but he implicitly believed it. - He wished to call attention - to:a conipar:ison on an average of the cropslprOduced on' a particular fararat different periods. He would take the years 1791 and 1819. would also compare the charges_sus tairied f6r rent, tithes, poors'-rates, taxes; labour, tradeirrien's bill, frorn accounts made up to Michaelthas, 1791, and,Mleitaelmas, 1819. The average crop taken from 1 . 791; was 40 bushels of Wheat per acre; which sold for Bs'i6d. per bUshel. The crop of 1819 was 34 bn . shels, which sold for Bs. 11:per bushel. • The crop of Barley, per acre; iri 1791, averaged 40 hnshet;, and was Aold for Gs. Gd. per bushel. lu 1819, the produce and price was th . e Sdr-ne, The'expenci , s borne by the former at the two periods wi - re'as fOIIoW f 1791; 'W acre - £BO 15 0 Rout" - 130 0 6 Tithes .. -. 1 1 1 1 19:, ,. tto r '. -..., .- 14 0 .. .. 39 1) 0 j 1791 - - 82 8 Poore Rat2s - 1 1319 '4 . 49 8 0 Assessed Taxes - 1 lui, 1 1 . - 1 _ 1 0 Labour - . - { 1 1 - 1 1- ! 1 ) - - 116 1 5 193 3 1 Blacksmith's Bill •-t 1 1 , 7 .1 1 A - - 8 10 8 • - 18 13 6 Wheelwright's Bill I t 1 3 % 1 1 110 - . 11 8 11 collarmlltar's Bill - { I T i g - - 28 .0 - !- 7 - 4 0 In 1791, the total expences, exclusive of interest, were 232 6 103 In 1819 • . - - - -- :- , - .op 7 $ - - _ . . At the two periods there was very little diffe rence' in the price 'of corn. It was impossible,: Under such cirCiunstances;that the farmer could' go on long without relief.. Mr. G. BENNETT' began by observing, that . every person' Who spoke on the question admitted, 'the univerSal 'distress'which prevailed, but every: Cautionsly'avoided to mention the sources whence • arose that distress.' If a Committee; were-appointed; and that - Committee did not go into -the whole of the distresSes, not only of the agriculturists, but of:every other class of his Ma-.' jesty's subjects—if they did not inqUire Into the taxation, .the appointriaent of aCommittee would: be a mere 'derusion'; it could give nO relief to the people at large ; it would only keep up rents, and 'raise the priCe of bread. .The hoped the report 46 14 wo uldemanate from that Committee,would • - not be got up as other reports had been:, by the in fluence of Ministers, anclafterwards thrown in their faCe as the report of the House, whereas; in fact, it might have been the report of Ministers themselves. The whole question of taxation, generally, as it bore on all classes,-should be diligently investi gated. The currency of the country should also be considered. -He contended that this ques tion should not be looked at as affecting the agri cultural interests only, but all Other interests, as settlements of-all kinds, -rents, bonds ; .-debts, mar riage Settlements, be all exam - med.— It:was ';;•+ 'The country to pay off the different intidetts nn ''rd ' on it With deteriorated Means. They' shOuld not go into that Committee without an express-determination to inquire into all the distresses under which all classes laboured. 1f augmentation of prices of agricultural produc 'Lions were the object for the 'appointment of - the Committee, -it would. he attended • with the greatest injury to the lower classes of the com munity.; He Yr child Sotirid the alarm to"the country •if such 'were the object:' Hot). MeMbers -might despise numbers and.- public opinion; the Noble Lord - (Castlereagh) might talk insult ingly' of the people's right to petitiOn that 'House - ; but he' would ' tell the Noble Lord and the lion. - Members,' that if the country were to be- toldthat a ComMittee were appointed by that liotweto raise the price of bread,—(tfear, hear.)—the Noble - Lord', with all blandiSh: Merits, could •not.allaY the:ferment such informa:. Lion" would necessarily-produce. He : should take care, and all his friends .should take care, that no 'motion for a Stipply should be carried in that Mouse' without :the , strictest inquiry and examination.--(Hear, hear, hear.) --they would take their stand on the establishment of 1792; and to thtit they • would - endeavour to rednee the present.- NVlien :from Mem -hers rimless that Agriculture is' rnined, that trade is destroyed ; when every one is endeavour ing to "shift 'for himself; it _bet:ante the duty of - sortie one:t6-'Staticrup'for the community , at large. There —was but one line of conduct' to,pursue.. The country -was : not able to support the present establishments. When; therefore, it shotild be told thein'that . the Colonies should' be niaintained,: - that . armies: should'. be kept support-peace and tranquillity,-that all the other establishments were to. be kept up,—it then be 'came the dirty of the Honse to: reply, that - the - `Country needed , theM not, and could not - support' them. That was• the- line of conduct . for tittrn; pursue. Wilful. on that night the blessings of 'plenty and abundance - had been repreSetited as a -curse, •when Ifortintrable Gentlemen stand - up •aud,..ltimenCthe ruined state :of agriculture, on those. Honourable Gentlemen •he - would call to come doWn to that' Buse and watch'the time - when next' a grant was to be votedlot the' 'keeping up:of an. enbrrnousfarmy estaWisbment: It would be then the people might,judge, of the' sincerity of . their motives.;---(Hear, ,heat !)-11 they did. ridt -codie•down and 'olipose:sna-e-nor- rnous ekpi.adittir4i 4 ;-. 11V , Sh4tlltlT s:COUrilae ,117.014( that :conduct; that it.. was :. pA t yrattilt !„.,91* their rents they walltedt--,;(211ear4) hept3,L):-.4lad. that if timse Vad heett•paid., the.. , ll(xtie• should not hear of a.Cornmittee.of inquiry intp .: ytieul tura! I)istr.esses.—(:lfear!). Goocu rose to .order, antLsaid the J. Member' had .tio Tight.to impute .-Lord NUitiViT .his,r lion', tead- •did., : uot Ulna . 1111I1U. personal motives to the floe : Members but was contending that the, 0hi.e.c,t.,.9 the motion was to support, the, tandho.l4ers,--,- (Criesof Chair, Chair-t) .•. • : . J The •Sii"EAKER. saidlio did not conceive the Ron. Member to. itnpu tentot i Yes when be. said if certftiq re Stilt S fol low ed g : but •i he AtnderStOod. him to say if rents were paid there should he no committee ) that - certainly he would consider. disorderly. _ _ Mr, BENNETT said he sebrnitted to.the correc, tion of the Chair. The lion.. Member continued his observations: The estimates. were one -thing and the. Expn - dit ore another. e-The .expenditure always exceeded the estimates. The .only gees tion for their consideration .was, the reduction of the expenditure and consequent diminution the taxes.. Nothing but the reduction of the expenditure- by proper retrenchment in every establishment could save the country. lie 0:o.ul4 be the last. man in the country who would recommend any attack .on the public creditore But he would - telll the Right Hon. the Chancellor. , of the. Excheqtier that he would be driver! out :of his quackery, step by .step e -(Hear !)--and shoelst at length come. down to that House to make. P such a . proposition as•. at another:time he. would , startle at. - lie would he obliged to come dowu • and propose_ to invade the .public creditor. II; (Mr. B.) would wish to avoid so ierrorninious condition ; and would first reduce their expeedii. titre. • He begged pardon of the House for hae..- • in trespassed so long on their indulgence ; but he could not hear of a Committee being appointed to raise, unnaturally and forcibly, the prices . the necessaries of life,without entering his protest against it. WESTERN supported the -motion for the Committee, and said that some protection were necessary to the agricultural classes. He did uot think it justifiable to raise the price of bread, oe the manufacturing poor. But he did noteconceiv. that effect could follow from affording to tiee agriculturists .such protection from the importers tion of foreign corn as would prevent the fertil and productive soil of the country from belch; thrown out of cultivation.. The /lon e Member (Mr. Bennett), said, that lion. Gentlemen wished to raise-the price of bread ; and to consider their own interests separate from the lower classes.— He (Mr. Western) had an opportunity of know ing and lamenting the hardships of the peopl. • H.e was confident, a more industrious or more laborious peasantry did not exist in .c.r!y country. If he were to submit the question for consideration to the lower class, and ask their opinion, they would answer, that it was not .th.e money price of bread, but . the .quantity of the necessaries of life-which they could purchase fo,r their labour, that constituted their prosperity:. They were not now so able to procure the neces saries of life as when bread was at a higher price. He would -maintain that iu any c0m1..: try where the price of bread was low, .the pea -sentry could not command so much of the ne cessaries of life as they could in that country' where bread was high. Their daily, labour could command more of those articles necessary to their comforts when bread was at a high price, because high wages and high prices for core accompanied each other, arid were inseparable. Suppose money depreciateS,and'the. price of bread rises,in the same proportion 'would wages ;of labour be found rise. The higher the. price of bread, the•less it pressed on the industry of the country. The burthens of the country should be reduced .by -the reduction of the taxes. He confessed he did riot anticipate any very great benefit-frorn.the Corn mittee, which was proposed to. be : appointed, but it was the duty of the flouse,• in furtherance of the prayers contained io. the petitions,, to in quire into the allegations contained -ire them; and then the petitioners might make one e - cese in suave way as should enable the House. to-adoet Some measure for their relief in a manner that-w.4s not now-thought' of; His opinion.wa's, that hell' ourpresent g rievances aros e fr om the late alteee tienethat•tra been enede in the : currency of the country ;—(Hear,hear !)—and he trustedi.when the Committee was appointed, that. it wouldcoo sider of the• Act for the resumption of cash pay ments, which in his opinion was the cause .o.f till our present suffei.ings It was his .convictiou, and the - conviction of the public out of doors, that the act in question had - been the theireeause.ef the present agricultural distress; and it was indis pensibly necessary to give protection to Ott...agri culture of this country, against the egriCUlture of foreigners ; amid such a protection 'Would give vigour to the activity of this kingdom, particularly, to Irelandefrom which we tnieNticiraw all theesupPliei We shOuld stand in nee&-bf, if such, protectiOa were afforded. This .hai. been the old . pOlicY of our country ; and f:a'd . bnPn one of the great-causes of our prosperity. N.ct , thing could. be mare injurious to the heeele,e, and the riirale , ora country, than . to be .le . prieed of that which was their own genitive the produce" 91 their industry ire ce!ti- Vating soil.—Mr. D. BRoWNE Was Or opinion the . Ll:stress of the-agriculturist arose froin :rant of iidequ,a:e tection aeriinst •the foreign grower.' He 'eritr tained:nolepes.of advantage from the ' le is- thcitie propOied of- taking the average ; the Vele step to be • ta - ken could. operate effectnallv, would be to . prohibit' the importation of foreien greirte . contended .that the ports had. Olken beereeeened .by I:rapd;ol.l : Ore'yftrt of certain !cep:- talists, by which they had been benefite?, .a rd cemetry-- ruirseek Ji was, of. opielen .there should_ be an absolute prohibition ,of. foreign tgu. enem - conceive de : thtrt--if the imperte tion ,orcore.:were prohibit4;d.;:-kireign'-conn'ries not one; Manttfacatres,• and : _eiftert aripplfrs weresearitedlthev tes" proc:nrid. :Aftlie same time it'was an alarming - 6 ; think 'Alit:tin& *as •likelye-o be ettirown out of .enliita tiod,in,consquence of the,' faVrnirs•not being abl, to-obtain-the'ialue . 'of- theie - labour. Upoty-the