The Sun. — London, England, 1839-06-01 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION. ipest has been suff:red to sit for seven years ; nor if we 1 Ileave the S e pt ent s a l A ct as i t i s , w ill any pru d en t MI 1 1 nister all ow it to s i t f or seven years . If, t h ere f or e, yen 1 wish the duration of Parliaments to be shortened to three y, a-s, the proper course would he to fix the legal term of four years, ited if you wish them to sit for four years, the proper course would be to fix the legal term at five years. I ant inclined to take the legal term a t ) five ye a rs, th us l ea vi ng the prectical rule to be a Par ) h meat every four years ; and I ought to add, that whenever we shorten the duration of Parliaments, my opinion is, that we ought to abolish that law by which Parliaments are dlseolved six months after the death of the Sovereign. It is altogether an unnecessary law, introducing capricious dissolutions, by which Parlia ments may be dissolved three weeks after being elected, and it is to be attributed to nothing but a legal tech nicality, with no reason that can be given de rived from the public good.—(Hear, hear, hear.) I come now to another suiaject—of the highest and gravest importance—l mean the elective franchise. / This is a subject on which I doubt whether my opinion will be equally pleasing to you, as, judging from your expressions, I presume my sentiments on other sub jects have been. I shall express my opinions, how ever, on this subject, as frankly as I have expressed ' them when they may be considered more pleasing—l shall express them with the frankness of a man who is more desirous to gain your esteem than your votes. — (Hear, hear, hear.) I stand on the principle of the Reform Bill. I think that principle an excellent one ; and that it requires only to be followed out. I would follow it out to its full extent. I deeply regret that it should ever have been departed from. There are two deviations from it to which I was especially opposed— ; and which the Government, when they consented to them, regretted as much as men could regret ; but they were driven to them partly by the vehemence and urgency of their opponents, and partly by the divisions lof their friends. The one was the admission of the freemen, the other was the admission of the 50/. tenants at wall. At the same time I must say that I despair of being able to meet with any direct remedy against either of these evils. As to the latter, the greater evil of the two, the only real corrective is that which is to be found in the Ballot—the only corrective for the other is by Parliament keeping its eye -fixed on those places where corruption prevails—by vigilantly detecting the prooie of abuse„ and by disfranchising the towns so soon as the proofs ef g n , r a l c o r r u pt ion are b roug h t home to ‘ them. As to other changes in which you may be soli citous to know what my opinion is, I think the diffi culties of the registration ought to be removed out of the way—the clauses relating to peyrnents ought to be amended or altogether removed—(Cheers)--and that the elective franchise ought to be extended to every 10/. householder, whether within the limits of a ho retools or without.—(Laud cheers.) To this length I am prepared to go ; but I should not deal with you ingenueu.ly if I did not tell you that at present I am not prepared to go farther. There are many other (petitions as to which you ought to be satisfied of the opinions of your representative ; but I shall only glance rapidly arid cursorily at the most important. I have ever been a determined enemy to the slave trade, and to - personal slavery under every form.---(Cheers.) I have always been a friend to popular education. I have al ways been a friend to the right of free discussion. I have ever been averse to all restrictions on trade ; and, above all, on those restrictions on trade which affect the price of the necessaries of life.—(Loud cheers.) lam averse to religious persecution, in whatever form it exists ; whether as direct penal laws, or as imposing civil disa bilities to the exclusion of any one from the blessings of our civil institutions.—(Cheers.) Now, having said so much upon measures, I hope you will permit me to say something with respect to men. If you send me your representative to Parliament, I wish you to understand that I go there determined to support the Melbourne Ministry.—(Cheers mingled with hissing.)— I assure those—(A cry, " It's only one")—No, no ; I am perfectly used, by long experience of po pular assemblies—sthough my band is a little out at present—to these expressions of dissent ; but I can as sure those gentlemen that I have no feeling other than that of respect and kindness for them, in their using those expressions which they are perfectly entitled to use ; but I must say again, that if you send me to Parliament, I shall support the Melbourne Adminis tration, and that not from any personal interest or feel lag. I have certainly the happiness of being on kind and friendly terms with many members of the Govern anent ; and to one member especially—the Noble Pre silent of the Council, I owe obligations which I shall ever be proud to avow. By that Noble Lord, when I was unknown in public life and scarcely known to litirgeif by sight, I was placed in the House of Com dons ; and during my seat there he never interfered in the smallest manner with my freedom of action as a member of that Assembly. Since that time I have represented a constituent body to whom I can never cease to be grateful—the populous borough of Le-eds. I may now by your kindness bi• placed '.in the proud situation of representative of Edinburgh, but never can I feel more indepen dent in the House of COMmons than when I sat there its the nominee of the Marquis of Lansdowne. Buit. while I acknowledge my obligations to that Noble Peer—while 1 openly avow my friendship for many of his colle; pea, it is not on that ground that I shall support them. I have no right to sacrifice your inte , rests to ray feelings. The support which I propose to give to the present Ministry, I would give on the fol lowing grounds : I believe them to be by many degrees the burst Ministry which, in the present state of the wintry, can Possibly be formed.—(Cheers and hisses.) I believe we have but one choice. I believe that ou' only choir* is between a Ministry substantially—for of muse 1 de not speak of particular individuals--be tw sen a Ministry in substance the same as the Mel bourne Cabinet, and a Ministry under the direction of the Duke of Wellington and Sir Robert Peel. I de 1406 hesithte to pronounce that my choice is in favour of the farmer.—(Continued cheers and hisses.) 1 cannot understand—and it is an objection to these poses that they convey no reason—(Great laugh ter)--I cannot understand whether the gentlemen lare angry with the Melbourne Government because they are too Conservative,*or because they are not Conservative enough, else I would frame my arguments accordingly ; bat is my present state I have no guide to dir.ort ine as to their opinions. Ido not deny, I an, far from denying, that the Government have committed great faults. fsee them ; but I also see the difficul- illaes which Governmtnt have had to contend with ; (and I say, looking to their past history, they arc entitled to praise ; and looking to the future, I con fidently auticTate that they will be entitled to sup port. It is a ccnamon error—anti one which I should have been surprised to find in a meeting so re speotable and intelligent as the present, if I had not found it also existing among men, not only intelligent, but mueh cb..vsrsan tin public business—it is a com mon error to think that in politics legislation is ever\ thin; and administration nothing. Nothing is more usual than to hear men say—What, another Session, gone, and nothing done—ao new Bills passed—no Irish Municipal Bill—no Ballot—Reform at a dead stand—why, how could we be worse if the Tories were in? My answer to this is, if the Tories were in, we should have the same bad laws, and we should have a bad Administration into the bargain.—(Cheers.) alt seems strange to me that gentlemen are not aware that it is possible that it may be better to have unre formed laws administered in a reforming spirit, then r formed laws administered in a spirit hostile to all reform. We often hear the expression, " measures, not men ;" and there is a sense in which it is a most excellent sentiment. " Measures, not men," certainly ; that is, we are not to oppose Sir Robert Peel, merely becaust he is Sir Robert Peel, or support Lord John Russell simply because he is Lord John Russell— we are not to follow our political bodies in the same bland spirit as my honest Highland ancestors followed their Chieftains when all the Campbells were found on the side of Gto ge 111., because the Duke of Argyle was a Whig, and all the Camerons fought for the Stuarts because Lochiel was a Jacobite. --(Laughter.) But it you mean, that while the laws remain the same, it is un empertant by whom they are administered, thee, I say that a doctrine more absurd was never broached by any political party. Why, what are laws ? They are mere words, they are a dead letter, till a living agent comes to put life into thorn. This is the case even in judicial matters ; and yet it is possible to tie ' up the Judges of the land much more closely than it would be right to tie up the Secretary for the Home or the Foreign Department ; but even there, in framing a code of laws, is it no matter whether it shall be admi nistered by Chief Justice Hale or Chief Justice Jeffe ries ?—(Cheers.) It would be easy, as many of you must be aware, to point out instances of societies, where bad institutions, under good Administration, have made the people prosperous ; and other instances, where coostitut.ons that looked remarkably well on paper, yet under a bad Administration have ground the people to the dust. But we need not go out of our own country. Let us see within our own island. and in our own time, the power of a good Administra tion to mitigate bad laws. For example, let us take the law of libel. I hold the present state of our law of libel to be a scandal to a ci%ilised community. Nothing more absurd can be found in the whole sem , Is of jurisprudence. How it was abused formerly you all know. It was abused under the Administra tion of Lord North, of Mr. Pitt, of Mr. Percival, of the Earl of Liverpool ; and I am sorry to say it was abuiled—most unjustifiably abused—by Lord Abinger, under the Adenieistradion of Sir Robert Peel and the Duke of Wellington. Is there any person who will pretend to say that it has been abused under the Go vernment of Lord Melbourne ? That Government has had enemie s in abundance—there h eis no want of ma ligners ; it has b een attacked by Tory r opponents and by Radical malco n t ents ; but ha s a ofthem, ever had the effrontery t o say thei it everny o abused ee the power of ex ofdo inforteations?—(Cheers.) And is that from want of provocation? On the contrary, they have i been attacked and libelled in a Government way i n w hi c h never was libelled before. I it , 1 Is t h en t h e e ff ect of the law ? Has the law been altered —has it been mo difi e d ? Not at all. We have exactly the same I law as when Mr. Perry was brought to trial for saying that George 111. was unpopular—and Mr. Leigh Hunt f:r saying George IV. was fat—(Laughter)—and o Sir I'. Burdett for expressing—not perhaps in the best taste —but when he expressed only a natural and honest in dignation at the proceedings at Manchester in 1819. The law is precisely the same ; but if it had b n re modelled entirely, the Press could not have had more liberty than it has enjoyed since Lnrd Melbourne came into power.—(Cheers.) I give that as an instance of the power of a good Administration to mitigate a bad law ; now, look at the necessity there is for a good Government to carry a good law into effect. In 1828 Lord John Russell carried a measure, which of itself is a great distinction to him, but not his greatest ; for he also carried the Reform Bill, and the purification of our municipal institutions. I speak of the abolition of the Sacramental Test as a qualification for office. Well, a Noble Peer, the Lord Lieutenant of Nottingham shire, thought fit to re-enact the Test Act so far as the county of Nottingham was concerned. I have already mentioned his Grace the Duke of Newcastle ; and to say truth, there is no life richer in illustrations of mis government in all its forms and branches than his. His Grace replied to a communication from the Lord Chan cellor, that he had not recommended a certain indivi dual for the Commission of the Peace because he was a Dissenter. Now, here was a law passed to admit men to office altogether irrespective of their religious opi nions ; and a Tory Nobleman avows the resolution to repeal that law. But it happened that we had at the time a Whig Admistfation. What did they do ? Why they put the Dissenter into the Commission, and they turned the Tory Nobleman out of his Lieutenancy. —(Loud cheers) Do you seriously imagine that un der a Tory Administration this would have been done? —(Cheers, and cries of " No.") I shall always speak with that respect which is due to the talents and per sonal qualities of the Duke of Wellington ; and I have no other feeling regarding him than one of pride that my country has produced so great a man—(Cheers)—nor can I feel anything but respect and kindness for Sir Robert, Peel, whose abilities by none that have ever been opposed to him will ever be slighted. Nor do I imagine that they approve of the conduct of the Duke of Newcastle. I believe the. Duke of Wellington would as soon - have thought of running away from the field of battle, as he would think of doing the same thing in Hampshire, where he is Lord Lieu tenant. But do you believe they would have turned the Duke of Newcastle out ? I believe not. As Mr. Pulteney said, who was a keen political leader in his day, parties are like snakes, whose heads are car ried on by their tails.—(Laughter.) It is impossible that the Duke of Wellington should have discarded such a great and influential Tory Nobleman ; unless, indeed, he had determined to leave the Tories altogether, and to throw himself for help, like Mr. Canning in 1827, into the arms of the Whigs. I give you these two in stances—mere instances which I have taken from the events of our own day, that you may see that when the laws are exactly the same, there is all the difference in the world between their administration by a Whig or a Tory Government ; or in other words, that a Tory Government would have half repealed the Test Aboli tion Act, while a Whig Government have half removed all that is bad in the Law of libel.—(Cheers.) If this be the case in England, in a healthy state of so ciety, how much more must it be so in the diseased part of the empire—in Ireland. Take any man, fkhatever his political sentiments may be, whether Re pealer, Precursor, or Orangeman, and he will tell you that he does not think it of slight importance what kind of Government they have. Go to any man in that country, from O'Connell to Colonel Conolly, and they will tell you that it is with them a matter of life and death—that, in fact, every thing depends upon the men in whose bands the Government is vested. I have heard people say, what is the good of a Whig Govern ment—they have been hammering for four years at an Irish Muncipal Bill, without ever being able to pass it through the Lords. But would any ten Acts of Par liament make such a difference to Ireland as the change between having Lord Ebrington for Lord-Lieutenant and Lord Morpeth for his Secretary, and having the Earl of Roden for Lord Lieutenant, and Colonel Max- well for his Secretary ?—( Hear.) Ask the Irish Leaders whether they will remain as they are. with Lord Ebrington as their Lord Lieutenant , or whether they gill have the Muncipal Bill, and any other three Bills they may name, to purchased with the Viceroyalty of Lord Roden, and they will at once answer, " Leave us to the Government of Lord Ebrington, and you may keep your Bills."—(Cheers.) The truth is, that the more defective the Legislation, the more im portant is a good Administration ; just as the personal qualities of a Sovereign are of more importance in des potic countries, like Russia, than under a constitutional Government. If we have not in our statute all the securities necessary for good Government, it is of the more importance that the men who administer the Government should be, in their feelings and by their operations, an additional security.—(Cheers.) But we are told that the Government is weak. That is most true ; and I believe all that can justly be imputed to the Government of blame is resolvable into its weakness. But we are to consider what the nature of this weakness is. Is it that kind of weakness which readers it a duty to oppose the Government ? or is it that kind of weak ness which renders it a duty to support it ? Is it that sort of weakness by which faults are committed which, when they are found in a Government, it ought not to be suffered to stand ? I mean intellectual or moral weak ness—the incapacity to discern, or the high moral re solve to pursue, the true interests of the nation. Such was the weakness of Mr. Perceval's Government, when 'hey expected an invasion upon our shores from Bourdeaux—such was the weakness of the Government that sent out the wretched Walcheren expedition, and starved the Duke of Wellington in Spain—whose only strength was shewn in prosecuting libellers, who could not describe too severely their misdeeds ; or in slaugh tering rioters whom they had driven to insurrection by their own misgovernment.—(Cheers.) Is that the weak ness of the present Government ? I think not. They are not deficient in intellectual or moral strength. On all questions of difference between them and the Conserva tives, I hold them to be in the right, and I say that their %veakness is not the weakness of incapacity. When I see the difficulties with which they have to struggle, and how manfully that struggle is maintained by Lord Melbourne—when I see that Lord John Russell has excited even the admiration of his enemies, by the heroic manner in which be has gone on year after year—when I see that, in the midst of weakness and difficulty, and desertion, and sickness, and domestic “ffliction, he has fought the battle of Reform, I cannot say that the Government is intellectually :or morally weak.—(Cheers.) I say that their weakness seems to are to be of that sort which requires not opposition but support. If I bad been permitted to consult my own Inclinations, I should have kept aloof from this scene of conflict. I know if you shall be pleased to send me to Parliament, I shll enter an assembly very different from that which I quitted in 1834—1 left the Whig party united and dominant—strong in the confidence and attachment of one House of Parliament—strong also in the fears of the other. I shall return to find them helpless in the Lords, and forced almost every week to fight a battle for their very existence in the Commons. Many whom I left bound together by what seemed in , dissoluble private and public ties, I shall now find assailing each other with more than the ordinary bitter ness of political hostility ; many with whom I sat side by side, contending through whole nights for the Reform Bill, often till the summer sun broke on our undimi nished ranks from the other side of the Thames, I shall row find on hostile benches ; I shall be compelled tc engage in altercation with many with whom I Lad hoped never to have a conflict, except in the generous and friendly strife which would best secure the great com mon cause.—(Cheers.) I left the Liberal Government strong enough to maintain itself against an adverse Court—l see that the Liberal Government now mainly rests for support on the preference of a Sovereign, in whom the country sees with delight the promise of a better, a gentler, a happier Elizabeth—(lmmense cheering)—a Sovereign in whom we hope our children and our grandchildren will have cause to admire the firmness, the sagacity, and the spirit which distin guished the last and the greatest of the Tudors, tempered by the beneficent influence of more humane times and more popular institutions.—(Continued cheers.) Whether Royal favour—never more needed, and never better deserved—will enable the Government to sur mount the difficulties with which it has to deal, I cannot pretume to judge. It may be that the blow has only been deferred for a season, and that a long period of Tory domination is yet before us. Be it so. I entered public life a Whig, and a Whig I am deter ruined to remain. I use that word—and I wish you to un derstand that I use it in no narrow or contracted sense. I mean by a Whig, not the subscribing to the contents of a book, though that book may have been written by Locke—or the approving of the conduct of any states man, though that statesman may have been Fox—or adopting the opinions of any fashionable circle, though that circle miry be composed of the finest and noblest . spirits of the age. But I discern through the lapse of centuries the conduct of this party—a party which, though often depressed has never been extinguished. I recognise them as a party, which, though tainted with the faults of the age, has always been in advance of the age—a party which, though guilty of many errors and of some crimes, has the glory of being the best promoter of liberty, and of civil and social improve ment ; and of that party I am proud to be a mem bee. It was that party, who, in opposition to mono polies, stood up against Elizabeth—it was that party who, in the reign of James 1., organized the first re gular Parliam en t oppos i t i on — w h o gra dually advanced the privileges of the people, and gradually drove back the prerogative of the Crown. It was that party who, under Charles 1., destroyed ship-money, and the Star Chamber, and the High C omm i ss i on C our t—that party who, under his son, Charles 11., carried the Habeas Corpus Act—that party who effected the Revolution — passed the Toleration Act—who b ro k e t h e y o k e o f a foreign Church in this country, and saved Scotland from the fate of unhappy Ireland.--(Loud cheers.) It was that party who reared and maintained the Consti tutional throne of Hanover against the hostility of the THE SUN, LONDON. SATTJRnAY,''JITNE 1. 18:39. Church and the landed proprietors of England. It was that party who opposed the war with America, and the war with the French Republic—who secured the blessings of the Constitution to the Protestant Dissenters---and who, at a later period, by unparalleled sacrifices and exertions, extended the same blessing to the Roman Catholics. To them, in the seventeenth century, we owe it that we have a House of Com mons ; to theca, in the nineteenth century. we owe it that the House of Commons has been purified. The abohtion of the slave trade—the abolition of colonial slavery —the spread of popular education—the miti gation of the rigour of the penal code—all, all ori 4inated with that party ; and of that party, I re peat it, I am a member.—(Cheers.) I look with pride and with glory on all that they have done for the cause of human freedom and of honest happiness. I see them now oppressed, struggling with difficulties, but still fighting the good fight. At their head I see men united in spirit and in sen timent, as well as in blood, to the champions and martyrs of freedom. By their side 1 propose to place myself. Delusion may triumph ; but the triumphs of delusion are but for a day. They may be defeated ; but their principles will gather fresh strength from de feat. But be it as it will, my part is taken. I will stand by my old banner while a shred of it hangs to gether—l found it the good old cause, as Sydney said when be shed his blood for it on the scaffold ; and though deserted, or flouted, or scorned by others, the good old cause shall still be the:good old cause to me. Whether I am in Parliament or out of it ; whether I am to speak with that authority which must belong to the representative of a great and enterprising commu nity, or whether I am to express myself in the humbler accents of a private citizen, I shall maintain inviolate my fidelity —my fidelity to the principles, which, though they may be borne down for a time by senseless clamour, are yet strong with the strength and immortal with the immortality of truth—my fidelity to the men who, however they may be misunderstood and misre presented now, I am assured will find justice in a better age.—(Loud cheers.) Gentlemen, I have done. I have only to thank you for the kind attention with which you have heard me ; and to hope, that whether my principles have met with your concurrence, the frankness with which I have expressed them has at least met with your approbation. The Hon. Gentle man resumed his seat amidst general cheering, which lasted for some minutes. Mr. CADELL said he thought he saw, from thirty years' acquaintance with the citizens of Edinburgh— he thought he saw, in the display of the faces of those before him, something which told him of the response which the motion he was about to make would receive —he thought he saw from that meeting, that all the good steady supporters of Liberal principles in Edin burgh would respond to his motion that Mr. Macauley was a fit and proper representative for the city in Par liament.—(Cheers.) There was little necessity for him to tell in Mr. Macau ley's presence, what were his quali fications. It was enough to say, that he supported an Administration who had done more for them in nine or ten years than had been done by other Governments for 100 years ; and one reason for their weakness, which had been alluded to by Mr.Macauley, arose from the ingratitude of the country.—(Cheers and hisses.) He repeated, they were ungrateful.—(Renewed marks of disappro bation.) But he thought he was safe in sayir.g that they would not be ungrateful to the Hon. Gentleman who had just addressed them. Another quality in Mr. Macauley was, that he was a distinguished mem ber of society. No man could look into the history of the three years during which he was in Parliament, without seeinc , that he had made a distinguished figure. After some farther b observations, he proposed that Mr. Macauley %% as a fit and proper representative in Par liament for the eity.—(Cheers and hisses.) Sir T. D. LAUDER said, that after the eloquent speech they had heard from Mr. Macauley—so re markable for liberality of sentiment and for strength of argument—(Cheers)—he conceived it would be out of all taste for him to detain them for a single moment, but he wished to explain why he was there. They had so often called upon him on former occasions to be come their representative—( Cheers)—which he had felt it impossible, from private circumstances, to comply with—that he felt it a kind of duty to keep a watchful eye on the individual whom they were most anxious to have as their representative, and to devote his best ser vices to see that individual returned.—(Cheers.) He now called upon them as liberal men to throw away all their small and petty divisions, as he was doing—for he went farther than most of them—and to join heart and hand in returning a Liberal Member. Till he en tered the room he had never seen Mr. Macauley, but no man could have read the literature of his country, or looked to the political history of the times a few years back, without knowing that he was a most redoutable champion whom they were about to return to Parlia ment.—(Cheers.) He concluded by seconding the motion. Before the motion was put from the Chair, Dr. GLovea, of St. Pat.ick:equare, rose to ask some questions. He admitted the extreme candour of Mr. Macauley, whe had certainly told them all that they had to expect from him. But he wanted to know, it he thought the libel laws so bad as he had described them, why he had allowed them to remain in the sta tute-book when he was in Parliament before ? If he had been so negligent of his duty then, was it likely that he would be more active in their service ? Dr. Glover proceeded in this strain, amidst a good deal of Mips tience and some cheers from the meeting. He con cluded by asking if Mr. Macauley was prepared to pro pose a vote to the House of Commons of 20 m lions of money for the education of the people, in which, as we understood the gentiemem, the Roman Catholic Bi shops and priests were not to be allowed to interfere —( Laughter.) Mr. MACAULEY said he would not propose any such sum, for it was greater than the object required ; and the effect of it would be to produce a job. As to his observations on the libel laws—if he had been better acquainted with the proceedings of Parliament, he would have known that a great part of the time is taken up with transacting the regular business of the country ; and that not more than two or three Bills besides that business can be passed in one year con sistent with the rules of the House. When he said that he bore no undistinguished part in the discussions on the Reform Bill—the Abolition of Slavery—and the opening of the China Trade, he confessed that he thought he needed hardly to give any other reason, why, during the twenty months—for that was the ex tent of actual sitting he was in Parliament, he was not able to repeal the libel laws.—(Cheers.) Dr. GLOVER was proceeding to argue the question, but the noise in the meeting rendered him nearly in- audible. lie next asked whether he was prepared to grant a sum of money to the College of Maynooth, or for Roman Catholic priests visiting prisons, while a similar grant was denied to the Church of Scotland ? Mr. MACAULEY said, when the State placed men in peculiar situations, where they could not have access to religious instruction, the State ought to provide it for them, though it was not of such a kind as the State might approve. This was the case when men were sent to Prison ; and it was much more so, when soldiers were enlisted and sent to India. As to the College of Maynooth, whether it was wise to establish it, he would not say ; but it was established ; and assuredly he would strike no blow to put it down. The LORD PROVOST inquired if any more questions were to be asked, and no one appearing to do so, he put the motion proposed by Mr. Cadell, which was re sponded to by general acclamation, mingled with hiss ing. He then declared the motion to be carried, which was answered by another shout. Mr. MACAULEY said he was a little exhausted with speaking so long, after six years' disuse ; but he had still enough of breath left to thank them. He proposed to meet them in smaller electorhl districts, where they could ask questions more conveniently than in that large meeting ; and he trusted he should be found to answer with the same frankness which they had already admitted in him.—(Cheers.) On the motion of Sir J. G. CRAIG, thanks were voted to the Lord Provost for his conduct. in the Chair, and the meeting separated after giving three cheers for Mr. Macauley, and three cheers for the Queen. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MA I , 31. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat at a little before ive o'clock. Lord ASHBURTON presented petitions from War minster, and other places, m favour of a uniform rate of penny postage. The Marquis of WE STMINSTER presented petitions to the same effect. _ _ Earl HARE WOOD presented a petition from a place n Yorkshire to the same cff,!ct. Lord ELLENBOROUGH presented a petition from Stroud to the same effect. Lord DACRE presented petitions to the same effect. The Earl of WICKLO W and several other Noble Lords presented similar petitions. BRISTOL AND GLOUCESTER RAILWAY. The Marquis of SALISBURY presented several peti tions relative to Turnpike Trusts. On the motion of the Marquis of Salisbury, the Bristol and Gloucester Railway Bill was read a second time. Lord SEGR AVE begged to make a few observa tions upon the subject of the motion of the Noble alarquis. He should in the first place make an observation or tvve on railways in general, because unless Railway Bills were watched, and some gene ral restriction introduced into them, railways would become great instruments of tyranny upon, instead of con venience to, the public. He would detail a case that hap pened on the Gloucester railway, which would show an in stance of great tyranny, and which succeeded for a time. The Great Western Railway was opened now to the public as far as Maidenhead. There were two stage coaches which started from Cheltenham to Lon don at the same time, and which took moat of the passengers who travelled by coach on that road. hi the middle of winter the proprietors of one of those coaches pat their coaches upon the rails. The other did nA—they resolved to try which of the coaches got the most passengers. It was found that the coach that was put upon the railroad loaded best. The proprietors of the other coach then determined to put their coach on the rails also. Mr. Nelson, of the Belle Sauvage, who was a part proprietor applied to have it put upon the Railway, and upon the same train with the other coach. The Rail way Company distinctly refused to allow that because the proprietors of the other coach had given them the advan tage of their custom first. He was sure their Lordships would consider that a very hard case.—( Hear.) Things remained in that way for some time, to the great prejudice of Mr. Nelson and his co•proprietors, until another of the proprietors had an interview with the Company or their secretary, when be succeeded in obtaining his object. In reference to the present Bill, the second reading of which hiid just been moved, he the (the Noble Lord) intended to Wove that it be read a second time this day six months. First he had a gent objection to the line proposed. There were two other lines which would be greatly preferable to the line which the promoters of the Bill had chosen. one of those lines was by Wooton-under-Edge, which would pass through the great manufacturing districts. The other was close by the Severn, which would nut do a great deal of injury to the property which would be ne cessary to be takers for that purpose. But, moreover, there was one of the best turnpike roads between Bristol and Gloucester in the kingdom, one of the first rivers for carrying goods, and for more than half the way there was one of the most convenient ship canals in England—all of which su perseded the necessity of the present Bat. He was per fectly prepared to admit that private property and private convenience must give way to public convenience and private good ; but he would submit, that before private property was invaded and abodes ren dered uninhabitable, a strong case of public necessity must be made out. —( Hear, hear.) In such a situation he himself now stood. It was proposed that this Railway should pass directly through his property. It was intended to take land from him of the very best descrip tion, and in the highest state of cultivation, without offering him any recompense at all adequate to the injury proposed to be done to him. I'here was One other person in particular, who was situated very ranch as he himself was, and who belonged to that class of persons which certainly the Noble Duke opposite was always anxious to do justice to, he meant the Yeomanry of England. The individual to whom he alluded was Mr. James Gurnett, of Bossington Hall. He and his family had lived in the parishes in the neighbourhood for between three and four hundred years. His property consisted of from 80 to 100 acres of the richest and finest grazing land in this country, upon the produce of which he and his family lived. It was proposed, that the Rail road should go immediately through his property, which would render 136 property untenable, and his house not habitable. It might be said that Mr. Gurnett might come in by Counsel and obtain redress, but their Lordships might as well tell him to come up and live at the London Tavern on turtle and champagne. He had enough to support him, living with his family in the country, but he really could not afford to pay ten guineas a-day to Counsel.— ( Hear, hear, hear.) He would, therefore, strongly urge upon their Lordships the hardships of this gentleman's case. If it was found hereafter that railways were of such decided advantage to the country, then he (Lord S.) and any other person whose case was a hard one, would be obliged to submit. For these reasons he would move that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. The Duke of BEAUFORT could not conceive any line of country in which a railway was so little wanted as be tween Bristol and Gloucester; and he would add, that if any line was required they had taken the very worst line that could be seleptna_ The Marquis of SALISBURY said his Noble Friend (LOrd Segrave) had done him 3ustict. in supposing that he Was most anxious to protect the rights of the landed inte rest.—(" Hear, hear," from Lord Segrave.) If the fact of a person not being able to employ counsel was to set aside every undertaking like the present, he feared it would be very difficult to improve the internal communication of the country. With respect to the line being the worst that could be adopted, all the parties asked was to be al lowed to go before a Committee, and prove their case. Lord BROUGHAM could perfectly well understand what the position of his Noble Friend (Lord Seagrove) was, and he thought his case, as well as that of Mr. Gurnett, extremely hard, when a party at law was attacked by an other claiming his property, which might be said to be the case in the present instance. He was obliged to lay out his money in his own defence, but if he succeeded, be recovered his costs from the opposite party. He wished there was some reform in their proceedings in that respect, although it could not be done in the present case. The House of Lords had no power of giving costs unless the parties made a private arrangement to in demnify Mr. Gurnett. He was anxious to call their Lord ships' attention to that point—he did not know how they could throw out the Bill upon the second reading, for that would be too strong a measure.—( Hear, bear.) Lord ELLENBOROUGH had no doubt that the public would feel greatly obliged to his Noble at,d Learncd Friend if he would draw up a clause to be in serted in every Act of this sort, which would meet the case suggested. Of the line he (Lord Ellenborough) knew no thing, but he did not think that on the mere two statements of two Noble Lords, the Bill ought to he thrown out, when no man could doubt that it was of the greati , s.t im portance to the city of Bristol such a Bill should pass. The existence and prosperity of the city of Bristol might be said to depend upon it, considering that this line would be connected with all the no, thern Nothing could be so injurious as to throw out a Bill on the second reading merely because an individual Peer said that his interests were involved, and that he thought a letter line should be adopted.—( Hear, hear ) The Bishop of GLOUCESTER said that on coming into the House a petition was put into his hand, signed by 800 persons, merchants, and owners and occupiers of land through which this railroad would pass, strongly en treating their Lordships to pass the Bill. He thought it was but right that a question of this kind, i n w hi c h so man y of her t‘ iajtsty's subjects were interested, s h ou ld h ave a proper examination in a Committee o f t h e i r L or d s hi ps ' house. Their Lordships divided, and the numbers were— For the Bill Against the Bill Majority for the Bill -11 Several petitions having been presented against the Government scheme of education, and for a penny postage, The Earl of WI NCH I L SE A rose and said, before the House adjourned he would beg leave to offer a few ob servations, in the hopes of eliciting some information from tLe Noble Viscount at the head of the Government, as to the principles which were now to guide that Government with regard to their foreign, their colonial, and their domestic policy. Under any circumstances, when a Government had felt it their duty to resign he should have been prepared to contend, not only that the people of this country had a consitutional right to expect an explanation of the grounds which had led to such a step ; but that if that Government should return to the offices which they had abandoned, the country had a fair right to ex pect a public announcement of the principles of that Government—( Hear) —seeing that the act of resignation and the acceptance of that resignation had put an end to the former Government. In the existing state of this country it was most dangerous, and the experience of past ages had also taught that constant changes of Government tended to shake the public confidence and to unsettle the public mind. He would take as the foundation of his appeal to the Noble Viscount, the statement of the Noble Viscount when he surrendered with his colleagues the offices of the Government ; and when thee Noble Viscount had stated, that he had not the confidence of the House of Commons, it could not but be the opinion of him (the Earl of Winchilsea) and his Noble Friends, that the Noble Viscount could no longer hold the reins of Government with honour to himself, with advantage to the throne, or with benefit to the general inte rests of the country. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) The Noble Viscount had stated that the result of the division upon the Jamaica Bill in the House of Commons was such as to render the sue. cess of the mea‘ure hopeless, and to make it impossible for him any longer to administer her Majesty's Govern. ment in a manner satisfactory or beneficial to the country, and he concluded by saying that there was no danger to be apprehended from the difficult circumstances of the country. Now he (the Earl of Winchilsea) would resigna un tion, andt whether, he on had the a right p rinciples o contend that t h e N o bl e Vi scount ' s late Government was t k the oble altogether ext i ngu i s h e d b y t h e acceptance of their Visco of as his late N Go_ vernment, and wh et h er after his own d ec ' aration, he could with b ene fi t to they c ountry, longer c onduct the Ad . ministration.—( Hear, hear.) In the ge neral situation of this country, b ot h at home an d a broad, he (the Earl of Winchilsea) saw ground f or t h e g reatest apprehension. With regard to our foreign alliances he feared it would be found that many of those co untries which, at the terminati on of the late war, were most favour ably dispo se d towar d s us, wou ld now, in the un fortunate ev ent o f war, b e the first to raise their standard ag a i nst us. A n d i t wa s impossible to see the warlike mo vements o f some S ta tes, without fearing that this country was i n great danger of b ein g involved in a war of which t h e term i nat i o n could not be foreseen nor the re su l ts ant i cipate d. Our colonies, both east and we s t, were i n a s ituation affording cause for the deepest alarm, and displayed a spirit of insubordi nation which was, in no ordinary degree, portentous. He knew not what measures of importance the Noble Viscount was alluding to when he made that declaration. If they looked at the internal state of the country, whether as rehiring to Ireland, where there was an organized state of rebellion and conspiracy, to break off the English connection and subvert the existing institutions of the country—if they looked at the most fearful conspiracy which was now going on it. their own country—a conspi racy,of which their Lordships had very little idea, either as to the extent, or how long and how powerfully the orga nizers had been working for the last five years. If they looked at all these things, and if they found the Minister of the Crown stating that he was not able to carry out those measures of energy and of the greatest importance, as affecting the peace and: tranquillity, nay, the very existence of the country itself, he asked their Lord ships and the country, whether they had not a right to expect from the hands of that Minister some declaration, some statement, why, on the 7th of that month, he made a declaration that he could no longer carry on the affairs of the country with honour to the Crown or security to the best interests of the country ; and why, on the 14th of that month, he should come down and say that be was placed in a different position.—( Hear, hear.) One of two things was clear—either that there was an abandonment of princi ple on the part of the Minister, or on the part of his followers. There were three parties among the followers of the Noble Viscount.—( Hear, hear.) One of them, lie hoped, having the interest of the country at heart, although greatly mistaken as to the means they sought to attain it. Another party boldly declaring that they were bent on revolutionizing the country, and over turning the pure form of Monarchial Government, under which the people of England had so happily lived, and from which they had obtained a greater extent of civil and religious liberty, than was enjoyed in any other country. With regard to the third party, there was a certain portion belonging the Roman Catholic Church, on whom political power had been recently conferred. They conceived that they were only doing what they conceived to be their duty in promoting the civil and religious supremacy of that Church. Although one set of conspirators might deny any connection with the other, the country would in the end be the sufferers. It was his firm, conscientious convic tion that there was an organized conspiracy going on throughout the country, to render the people disaffected with the institutions of the country ; and when, in ad dition to that, they saw a Ministry supported as they were by parties entertaining the most opposite views and compelled to make concessions to these parties to secure their support—( Opposition cheers)—without which they could not exist as a Government for one single mo ment, when they saw them driven to advocate measures which were not only detrimental in themselves, but which would tend to destroy the peace, the tranquillity, and the permanent prosperity of the country, it was important that some explanation of the views and intentions of the Go vernment should be given.—( Hear, hear.) He had said much more than he intended, but he felt the importance of the position in which the country was at present placed, and which, from a misunderstanding on the part of the Sovereign, had led to the downfal of a constitutional and independent Government. As he said before in that House, he had no party but his country, and the measures he had advocated had been advocated from no object but the welfare and happiness of the country, to which he was sincerely and devotedly attached. But if the position of the country was such that a Minister of the Crown could come down one day and state that he no longer possessed the confidence of the country, and was unable to carry into execution the measures which were necessary for the welfare of the country, he did say that the time was arrived when it was necessary, in the name of the people of England, to demand some explanation why they were now better prepared to carry on these measures than they were before.—( Cheers. ) Lord MELBOURNE said the question which the Noble Earl very naturally, and with perfect propriety, has put, will render it necessary for me to take up but very little of the time of your Lordships in the observations I have to make. My Lords, I certainly admit that the Noble Lord and the House and the country have a perfect right to expect from me an explanation of those circumstances to which the Noble Lord has adverted. But I had thought considering the whole of his speech, and considering the whole of the circumstances be has stated, that I had al ready given to your Lordships that explanation, and that I had already stated to your Lordships the ground of my re signation—grounds which have been perfectly understood, completely apprehended, and most distinctly and accurately stated by the Noble Lord. My Lords, I thought I had also stated very shortly, very plainly, and very simply to your . . Lordships those circumstances which induced * Mc to re sume office again—circumstances which have already been discussed in both Houses of Parliament, and made well known to the country; circumstances which, allow me to say, even in the continued existence of that state of things which caused my resignation, and notwithstanding the continuance of the difficulties by which the Government was sur rounded—circumstances of such a nature as made it im possible for me, with a due regard to the interests of my country—impossible for rite as a man of honour, and of feeling—( Hear, hear, and cheers)—to act in any other manner than I have done. This is the explana tion which I have to give of the conduct I pursued. I perfectly admit that the causes which occasioned those difficulties and the change of Government may yet be undiminished.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Sure I am that they will not be diminished by any abandonment of principle on this side of the House, or that the Govern ment will be conducted on any other principles than those on which I understood it to be formed, and througlaut conducted.—(Hear bear.) Those principles unques tionably are principles of .progresssion and reformation. I have always been in favour of every measure which was in my opinion for the good and advantage of the country, but certainly I never was, nor am I now for purchasing, or for obtaining support, either by bringing forward or by sup porting measures which are contrary to my opinions, and contrary to my conscience. —( Cheers.) That is what I have understood to be the general principle on which this Government has been found.—( Hear, hear.) But lam not myself perhaps a very great friend to de clarations on the part of Governments. They are in general so extremely obvious and so very universal as in fact to be-admitted and professed by all Governments, and to have the disadvantage of being interpreted by every person just according to his own feelings, his own views, and his own wishes, and often producing subsequent em barrasssment anc subsequent disappointment. I am, per haps; not a friend to such general statements ; at the same time I admit that upon occasions like the present it is, perhaps. as the Noble Lord has stated, necessary that some declaration of that nature should be made. My Lords, up.an a former occasion I stated that there was a censure of which I was indifferent, and of that censure I am at present perfectly indifferent, but the censure I should be most sensitive of is that of having deceived any one, or having given a notion that I professed opinions which I did not hold or maintain. That, I trust, cannot be said of me. My opinions upon most of those subjects of popular dis cussion which now agitate the public mind are perfectly well known; they were perfectly well known in 1835, just as they are at present. I will not declare or repeat them _ . on the present occasion; I will only say that all measures of reformation, which I conceive to be really measures of reformation, I am a warm and anxious friend of, but I am not prepared to adopt measures which arc contrary to my feelings, contrary to my opinions, and contrary to my conscience, for the sake of gaining the support of others and of conciliating. The Noble Lord has adverted to the difficulties with which the country is surrounded, both internally and externally. I do not mean to extenuate the difficulties that prevail within our own country—l do not mean to extenuate the dangers that exist from the feelings of disorder and tumult which have been raised and excited within the bosom of this cointry. I conceive there is at present what appears .1 1 '0 me, who have not been an inattentive observer, something of a new feeling and something of a novel symptom. There is something in the present day, I know not whether it is more dangerous than in former times, but the dangers of former times were always glossed over with something of reformation, and something in the shape of amendment ; whereas in the present day at public meetings, and by persons of no small power and no incon siderable influence, there has been an open intention de clared of plunder, of violence, and of bloodshed. I know not whether this is 'mere dangerous or less dangerous—l trust it is less dangerous, because if it be more dangerous we must suppose that the country is now so infected to the core that it is impossible we can hope for salvation from any course of measures that can be adopted. It is true, also, that great difficulties we have of an external nature—dif ficulties adverted to by the Noble Lord, and which it will be necessary to have brought to your Lordships' most serious consideration. There are difficulties in many parts of that great and extended empire which is committed to your Lordships' guidance, and where, from the feelings that are excited the seeds of disorder may be expected to germi nate. I have but one word to say upon that. Great . changes have taken place in the Constitution of this country of late years—changes which have excited a very considerable degree of alarm in the minds of many who have great experience of affairs and great knowledge of public mat ters. The opinion of the most able and most accomplished statesman in Europe with respect to us is that they may do very well in fair weather. They may do very well in time of peace ; they may do very well in time of tranquil lity ; they may do very well when there are no great financial difficulties—but let us see you in time of war— let us see you in times of pecuniary difficulties, and then, let us see how you and your new constitution are.—( Hear, hear.) Now the remedy for that is to be found in the wisdom and in the prudence of Parliament—the absence of party spirit and the manner in which Parliament will be found to discharge its duties. That is the first hope to be looked to in respect to those changes in the Constitution, and I trust that Parliament will be prepared and ready to meet all exigencies and all difficulties. But unless there be wisdom in Parliament— unless there be wisdom and prudence in the people, and a due regard to common sense, it is rather difficult, I con fess, not to share in the apprehensions which it must be acs knowledged are common to many on the subject. I have stated now to the Noble Lord the reasons why I have been induced to take the responsibility of the Government upon me again ; and in fact, I believe, I have substantially and virtually answered the question he has put to me. —( Hear, hear.) With respect to the result of what has taken place, I am anxious, undoubtedly, for the sake of the great interests which are at present committed to my charge—l am anxious for the sake of the country, but as for myself I am very little anxious. With respect to the country, I am sure I know not who are the persons best fitted for power in it. It is reported by Bishop Burnet, who was a man of great prudence, of great knowledge of the world, and of a most impartial mind, that King William said to him on one occasion—" I have often considered the question between a Monarchial and a Re publican Government, and I don't know which is the best. I think there is a great deal to be said on both sides; but, though I cannot tell you which is the best go vernment, I can tell you which is the worst. and that is a Monarchy which has not the power to carry into effect the measures which are good for the country." Well, now, I am sure I do not know which is the best Ministry or which is the worst Ministry in itself consi dered but this I do know, that unquestionably the worst Ministry is that Ministry which does not possess sufficient confidence of the Parliament and of the country to enable it to adopt these measures which are necessar, For the good of the country—( Much cheering)—and I truat for the benefit of the country, that if they c be now a deficiency of that confidence, the wisdom and the pru dence of Parliament and the wisdom of the country at large, will cause an alteration in that respect.— (Great cheering.) The LORD CHANCELLOR put the question that the House do now adjourn, when— Lord BROUGHAM rose and said—My Lords, many considerations disincline and well nigh dissuade me from tak ing part in the discussion which has been raised by the Noble Earl on the present occasion. The part which I have always taken in common with my Noble Friend near me, in public life, upon great public questions, being always with them—the habits of intercourse which for four years prevailed amongst us—the long and sincere personal friendship which has attached me to them, and still unites me with them unbroken by the accidental circum stance of my having ceased to be in office with them—un impaired by the political differences, which differences alone have severed us for the last two years—but, my Lords, my devotion to what I deemed the service of my country—my sense—my . cleep sense of its highest interest, which I firmly believe to be nearly touched by the pr sant position of things—my anxiety to discharge my public duty without regard to any personal hazards or even per sonal feelings which might interrupt it—have over come those motives which might have otherwised im posed silence upon me; for, my Lords, those motives are greatly increased by the singular peculiarity of our present position, which though it has not been adverted to by my Noble Friend to-night, formed the only subject of his observations, and of the statement made by the Noble Duke upon the occasion to which he refers, but the No ble Earl opposite is the one to whom ho has given, as he flatters himself, a complete and satisfactory explanation of the phenomena in the political world, of which he is the subject.—( Hear, hear)—and of which the Noble Earl has been the commentator ; and mixed up with that, and stu diously mixed up with i 1 by him in his supposed explana tion—by all his supporters out of doors ever since that day —by all the Ministerial Members who have addressed their constituents—by all the most powerful Ministerial sup porters in both parts of the empire who have addressed large bodies of their fellow-citizens—all, without excep tion, have concurred in augmenting the difficulty, in exacerbating the pain of the feelings of whoever at this moment would take part in a discussion which yet they feel they cannot repudiate, because all that explana tion—all those efforts to support and prop up the falling Administration uniformly centred—beginning, continued, and ending—in one topic and one topic only—not a mea sure—not a principle—not an opinion--not anything that has been done in Parliament--not any course of measures or po licy purporting to be pursued henceforth in Parliament, but the name of the Sovereign of these realms put forward— ( Hear, hear)—has been the only argument brought out and tendered to the country in lieu of all reasoning, in lieu of all explanation—and the private individual personal feelings of that illustrious Princess made the topic of every riotous meeting that is held—of the still worse meetings of mobs in the morning of the day—and of every harangue of all the demagogues who had been called to the support of the sinking Administratien.—( Immense cheering.) They have nothing to say of themselves ; they have no measures to propose—no defence of their policy to make—nothing but 44 Queen, Queen"--( Hear, hear, hear)—the feelings of their Royal Mistress — the Bedchamber quarrels—( Deafening cheers)—with respect to promotion.—( Much cheering and laugh ter.) And that I may sum up all in word—and I take it fairly and impartially, study, becawe it is the word of a Noble Friend of mine, and no kinsman, but the word of a Noble Friend and kinsman of a Noble Friend near me— the private secretary of the Lord Chancellor—" Sir Ro bert Peel's formation of a Government has been beaten by two Ladies of the Bedchamber."—( Renewed cheering. ) I know that these feelings are natural to man—l know that an appeal to such feelings in this country never can be made in vain. But I also feel and know—and at this moment I feel deeply impressed, though not oppressed, thank Good, in the discharge of my duties—but it makes it trebly difficult for me, without incurring the hazard of giving offence elsewhere in a high quarter—for that is the unfair—that is the unmanly character of the argument— ( Great applause)—to discuss and to argue touching the Go vernment of the whole realm committed to the Queen, that you are at the same time called upon to discuss it upon such terms as these ; we take an issue which makes who ever doubts, or whoever differs from us incur the hazard of making a personal, an invidious, an offensive opposition to the Sovereign.—( Much cheering.) My Lords, as I know my own heart—as I know that no one of her Ma jesty's servants—no one the most devoted to her service, feels a more perfect devotion to that illustrious Princess than I do ; as no one feels deeper gratitude than I do for those kind acts of condescension from her, and from her il lustrious family which I have had uniformly occasion without the slightest interruption for one moment,to receive, and to be honoured and exalted by them—l know that I cannot feel anythingwhich a man ought not at once openly and publicly to avow upon that delicate and painful topic. And I also know there is so much justice, so much kindness of feeling —so much inflexible candour and integrity swaying that Royal bosom, that my motives have no risk of being mis construed, and that the unmanly and dastardly attempt to mix up her name with these questions, which I do not ac cuse any of my Noble Friends of, but which I do accuse many of their supporters of out of doors, I am confident must fail. ( Hear.) The attempt will fail in the high quarter towards which on the one hand it is pointed. I know it will fail in another quarter—it will fail if it was meant to deter me, and if it was meant to deter others in the discharge of my or their public duty. My Lords, the general avowal made by men possessed of the' powers of Government it would appear is not to be highly estimated, and for the reason which my Noble Friend at once assigned in his statement, and which he has illus trated in his practice, as it may mean little or nothing be cause a more vague, useless, fruitless exposition I have not heard. The statement he has made would be exactly as good for one man as for another— ( Hear, hear, hear)—for there was not one single word that my Noble Friend offered that I, differing with him a little in some things, could not equally as accurately have said in his place.—( Hear, hear.) Nay there was not a word offered by him which the Noble Duke opposite, dif fering from him much more, could not have said—or which any body who differed from him could not have said.— (Cheers.) I hope that nobody present forgets what my Noble Friend said ; if he does I will remind him of it. He says—l am a friend of all progressive improvement. I should like to ask whoever gets up iii this Howe and says I am enemy of all progressive improvement.— ( Hear, bear, and laughter.) But he says, lam a friend of all safe mea sures of reformation, and if you will only prove to me that they are safe I will adopt them.—( Laughter.) Why the Noble Duke's statement was just as satisfactory, who said that if the wit of man were to be set about devising a new Constitution it could be hardly ever thought possible for him to make so good a one as the one we hod unless he were to take the same.—( Laughter.) The Noble Duke might as well have said lam a friend of all reform, if you will only prove to me beforehand that that reform will be safe.--( Hear, hear.) But my Noble Friend said lam against accepting of any thing contrary to my conscientious opinion in order to conciliate support. Would I not say so? Would the Noble Duke not say so? I must say that a more safe or a more simple doctrine than this kind of political placebo I never knew administered to a delibe rative assembly. —(Much cheering.) Really my Noble Friend has left us with respect to his intentions upon 'the great political questions that occupy men's minds out of this House this day—he has left us at the close of his state ment precisely as he has left the Noble Earl, with respect to whom he hoped he had answered his question in a satis factory manner.—( Hear, hear, hear.) For my own part I never heard an answer that answered so little. Now upon one point I must differ from my Noble Friend. He has denied that there are great difficulties surround ing the country. I say that there are great difficulties both at home and abroad. He said, on the 7th of May, th A there were difficulties of various kinds, but that the Government was enabled to cope with them. But my Noble Friend went further ; he said that it had been the opinion of many men of great weight and high authority as statesmen, that the new Constitution under the Re form Bill of 1831 might do very well for fair weather, but that it could not withstand the tempest of foreign wars and domestic strife.—( Cheers.) He seems to deem it a matter of doubt whether the new form of our Con stitution is fitted as well for the storm as the calm.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Upon this - subject I must avow at once, that I entertain no doubt, no hesi • tation, no apprehension or alarm whatever.—(Cheers.) I say if it is good, for;the calm, it is better yet for the tem pest. I say if in smooth waters your vessel is the better for being well trimmed, well found, and well manned, and all her rigging tight and her timbers sound, by having with you the hearts of the people—(Chef rs)—and by having the good will of your constituents in the other House of Parliament, it is still better for the tempest when more stress will be laid on its timbers, sails, and rigging . The repairs then that you have wisely and ti me ly mad in the Constitution, will become more valuable, because more necessary, when the storm begins to beat against its bark. — ( Cheers.) I know that Ido not share this opinion with the majority of your Lordships.--( Cheers.) 1 fear I hardly share it with my Noble Friend. I perceive from the omi nous signs around me that I don't share it with my Noble Friends, who, in former times, when it suited the hour, were the advocates of Reform.—( Cheers.) In fact, my Lords, I almost stand solitary in this House in looking at the Reform Bill as the salvation of the country.--( Cheers.) Be that as it may, 1 have frequently had occasion to stand up alone against measures in this House, and as long as I their( the G mak ing r repar nlfso.ainycnetdtdhse corporation cheering. Friend ) consider measures prejudicial to the people, I will always stand up against them. My opinion stands steady, that the reformation effected in 1831 and 1832, if good for ordinary occasions, is far better for the occasions adverted to by Noble Friend.—(Great cheering.) There can be no doubt that the Government is in great difficulty; indeed, its Members have admitted that they have lost the confidence of one House, and never had that of the other —(Laughter)—and that, having only the support of the Crown, they could not carry on the Government. That ad mission was made on the 7th of May, and on th a e ppei l sebi 3 cay th tgsuhtenh m att.eot. y Noble Friend in . the same place stated, notwithstanding what he had said a week before, that lie had resumed the Government, and meant to continue to carry it on ; but he asked the House to adjourn for 10 or 12 days. Many thought, and I among that number, an adjournment of such a length seemed out of the ordinary course of Parliamentary pro ceedings, and that it betokened an intention to recon struct struct the Ministry, and that having lost the co nfidence ae o k Parliament, they were going to take measures to ( t. , 1 i f a , t 0 long confidence. ab a d i 0 I ur llneverm adjournment u doubted o ; u butbte dwtbhh what tt been aethatsin been was the the casecaus e ? Why, my Lords, that interval bas ting up an outcry—(Cheers) — a nd ignorant m l b u s u - ; molls—(Cheers) —deluding s red for that y N l obl This was for the doubtless was not the i ntention bu y try. It h s m i s representations. — ( G reat s r e ) s — e n d t e a l I t ' : o : n i nn s dg . e pu r pose of gttingup o a r m c n t :curd: town had meetings, e t et been iug to raise t h cao t un c ty ry— mc c e L ttl a rei n gr g yse h . p th u e rp t o w s e e l . ve days that meetings have taken place, beginning with Liverpool, and en di ng with the Corporation of London yesterday.... 1 , DUTCH MAIL. THE HAGUE, MAY 28.—His Excellency Rear- Admira Ryk, Governor. Gene' al of the Dutch Possessions in the West Indies, sailed for the Helder on the 26th, on board his Majesty's corvette Amphitrite, bound to Surinam. It is observed that for some days past the sittings of the Council of Ministers have been very frequent, in conse quence, it is supposed, of the approach of the time for ex changing the ratification of the two treaties which put an end to the differences between Holland and Belgium. The ratifications are to be exchanged at London, on Friday next at the latest. The Grand Duke Alexander and Prince Henry are ex pected to leave England at the end of the month, and return to the Hague. We learn that the young bride of the Hereditary Prince is diligently studying th e Dutch language, and that she will bring no more than a couple of attendants from Germany, as the household will be composed entirely of Dutch ladies. All who have had the good for tune to become acquainted with the young Princess who is one day to adorn the throne of the Netherlands, unani mously speak in the highest terms of her amiable qualities. Her beauty is well known to us from the repeated visits with which she has for some years past honoured our coun try in company with the King, her father. It is less known that the Princess is no less favoured by fortune than by nature, her property being at an annual receipt of 700,000 florins.—Dutch Papers, May 29. BERLIN.—A storm, such as the oldest inhabitants have never before seen, burst to day over the city. A torrent of rain inundated the streets in a few minutes. and a tremen dous shower of hail covered the ground. Everything in the gardens is literally cut to pieces. Two children were drowned. MAY 23.—The Grand Duke and Duchess of Mecklen burg Schwerin, have arrived here. MAGDEBURG, MAY 17.—1 t is said that the Hanoverian Government has opened negoeiations at Berlin for a treaty with the Stateci forming the German Commercial League. --Journal de Frankfor t, May 26. EV fis,NIN'G rt. ITION. (Great cheering.) Tho battle has been fsuelit with va rious suceess—(Cheers)—but I any, and I know the Noble Duke opposite, who understands more of battle than I do, is of the same opinion, that that attempt has signally failed.--( Cheers. ) In fact, a worthy friend of mine, who is a staunch Whig, stated to me that he never witnessed such a failure in the world.--( Cheers ) This was not for want of zeal out of doors.— (Cheers. ) How was this attempt made.? Why, the ten-times repeated falsehoods have been without exception reproduced. and on them have been grafted slanders the most despicable; but though ridiculous and contemptible for their absurdity, yet not the lest despicable, and incite iting a deep, malignant, and a false and corrupt nature, and those who could make them the subject of their discourse.—(Great cheering.) My Lords, I deeply regret to have lived to see the day when so great a name should be mixed up in such false hoods. It shows me that common reason, and sense, and charity are no longer hereditary in a family, which was in former periods of its history illustrated by all those orna ments of reason and sense, and advanced, besides, by im mortal genius and spotless integrity, which once made the name of Henry Grattan to shine pith such a surprising bril.iancy and I ustre.—( Tremendou cheers.) Is ly no noire, my Lords, with respect to these slanders, on recount of the weakness of reason to which I have ascribed them— ((heers)—but there have been others, for whom neither from past history nor present times I feel such tenderness and pity.—( Cheers.) I warn my Noble Friends against saying that they will give up their conscientious opinions to the dictation of others —(Great cheering.) I warn them not to suppress those high and honourable feelings that burn within their bosoms, from f-ar of losing any support—(Cheers)--for they may be well assured it they persist in counteriancieg such persons, they wol be them selves deserted—(Cheers)—it they truckle to them they Will be abandoned—(Cheers)—if they yield to them they will be despised—if they promote them they will he abused.—(Cheers.) And if they contaminate the Bench with them, they will be impeached.—(Tremendous cheering.) But there is ap honourable and manly course open so them—they must discountenance all such persons, tney must refuse to pay the filthy price.—(Cheers.) They must pref . , r hostility to support from such quarters, they must consider that alliance is worse than hostility, and feel with the noble portion of their countrymen, that the saliva is more pernicious than the too h. —( Great cheering.) Then, my Lords, I come to ask the question, having dealt with the history of the last 12 days, what there is on the 31st May, that shows that the Government have more the confidence of the Houses of Parliament, than they had on the 7th.—(Cheers.) Anxious as I was to put an end to the finality doctrine, anxious as I always have been to hold out the right hand of fillowship to her Majesty's Ministers, I was in hopes that they meant tc make some change in their policy; but those hopes have been put an end to by the statements of the Noble Lord. All the supporters of the Ministry stated that they intended to do so, and that they would have crone it before if Lord John Russell bad not placed himself in the way. New, my Lords, from the knowledge I have of Lord John Rus sell, I believe that a stronger Reformer than that Noble Lord does not exist; and when it is stated that that Noble Lord was the only Minister who insisted on the finality of the ROorm Bill, I know that that opinion was entertained by the whole of the Ministry. It was not the doctrine of Lord John Russell alone, but of the whole Cabinet. That doctrine, I trust, they have reconsidered, and if they have, I will tell them that their failure lately will be accounted nothing if they will only allow themselves to be found fighting in the ranks of the people.—(Cheers.) I had some hopes of that, but they are damped by the generalities in which the Noble Viscount has dealt.—(Cheers.) What I de precate, my Lords, is the tendency in many quarters to con sider the basis of the new Government to be totally different from any yet known. Whoever heard, or fancied, or dreamt of a] Whig Government standing upon a Bedchamber question—(Cheers)—a question of personal feeling to wards the Sovereign, and a resolution to stand by the Sovereign, and a rallying cry to fly to her defence.- - (Great cheering.) Yet that is the ground upon which the Government is now to stand, and that is the ground upon which it applies to the country for support. One of the first of the falsehoods that has been stated in support of that ground all over the country is this—that an attempt was made by Sir Robert Peel to deprive the Quen° of all her Ladies of all kinds and descriptions (Cheers.) I have seen that stated over and over again, and anything more false was never uttered by mortal man.—(Cheers.) Another falsehood is that it was intended to take from her Majesty the society of her earliest friends, those friends to whom she had been at tached from her cradle, who had watched over her in sickness, and spent happy hours with her when in health. —(Cheers.) That statement, my Lords, is as utterly without foundation as the other to which I have adverted. Her Majesty is now nineteen years of wee, nearly tsventY' and how long I would ask, have these eadies watche d over her ?—( Laughter. ) None of these associates of her childhood could have been of more than two ye ars' stand ing.—( Hear, hear.) And if the feelings of any man, woman, or child, were excited in favour of the No ble Viscount by the statement of Sir Robert Peel's negoc ia e tion, one hundred men, one thousand women, and ten thousand of younger persons, were excited by that appea l which came bonne to every bosom—that of tearing from a n amiable young lady the friends of her earliest childhood. -- ( Cheers.) All that turns out to be a fabrication.—( Hear.) It is all false—There is not a shadow of truth in it. No man can venture to stand up here and say, that the Noble , Duke opposite, or Sir Robert Peel, ever asked of her Majesty to give up even for one hour, any one of her early associates. Well then it is said, they should not be re moved—what business had they to be removed ? Why not allow the Noble Marquis's (Normanby) Lady. and the Noble Lord (Morpetb), formerly my colleague for York ' shire, why not allow his sisters to remain? For all I know they might have remained. All that was stipulated for was, that there should be the power of removing them. I must say however, that a new ground has been taken elsewhere, something very extraordinary and quite novel has been propounded, and the obvious, simple and natural arrangement now is, that there should be one set of men in the public offices, and another set of women, the wives of their antagonists in the public offices elsewhere.-- (Laughter.) It was reserved for the year 1839, and for us Whigs, to promulgate that doctrine. The Whigs refused to take office because the relative of a Noble Lord opposite, held the office of Lord Chamberlain in his Majesty's Ilousehold.—( Cheers.) The explanation we have had of that circumstance, was the most unsatisfactory that could be given, but it seems to be the rule of these Household 'discussions, that the explanation should be of a 'less satisfactory nature than any other. This is the extraordinary position in which we are placed, but it throws this light on the mat ter, that when the Minister says resign, it means that the . husbands go o ut, but th e wiv e s, for conf o rmity, do not fol low—half go out, but the better half remain in.—( Be e of laughter:) And when he comes down and say', in the usual and customary formula proper to these occasions, that the Ministers only hold office until their successorrs are appointed, is means that they only hold office till their wives and sisters prevent any successors being apfmir' te i t —( Laughter and cheers ) That's the meaning of it. is painful to discuss matter s in which ladies are necessarily involved—it is very painful; but whose fault is it? T he Ladies of the Bedchamber have become a State qu estion h - - tneyhave become a political e ngin e —th e y h a ve become t pivot on which political movement s hi n g e —t h e y are the n el l obstacle to the confidence of Parliament being g iven t o those whom the Parli a ment se l ects t o confide in. , They cease to be the me r e p r i va t e companions :f.: the S o v ere i gn , an d be come the actors in State h fi fairs—they b ecome St atesmen a l t h oug h no t c l o thed w ith a masculine char a cter—th e y b ecome agents an d opera to r! standing between th e w i s h es o f P ar li amen t an d the fu meat of these wishes. If it were no t f or t hese circu m i ; stances it would be try duty to ma i n t a i n th a t s ilence sebi___ # c I observed on the f ormer occas i on ; b ut i t i s no w bee'', a constitutional question, and th ere are so m any gr ay constitutional questions mixed up with it—it has so Mal important bearings connected with it, that I confess I vie the consequences that may result from it with dismay, an I would rather be relieved from the necessity of content' plating them. It is perfectly justifiable ground for a 00 ; vernment maintaining itself in office th a t it has the supp or t of the people. If the Ho uses o f P ar li ame nt differ, ID' constitutional mode of adjustingthe difference is an aPP eal to the people. If the Lords differ from the Comm eegt and that the Crown is not a mere cipher (and no one holds the doctrine of the Crown being a mere cipher 4 greater contempt than myself)—if the Crown agrees t h e te the Commons, and that the Commons differ from Lords, if the matter be of a trifling nature the G„yern merit goes on as usual—if it be of a very important ( e ) b b s ; • ratter the constitution chalks out the proper plan t . d ,,d adopted, and if a new election by a clear and dee' majority shows that the people adhere to the Comftle(e'se' and differ with the Lords, then I say that the Constitution of the country is, that the Lords must give wa y to th e Crown and the people ( Hear, hear,)—othervrise e.s mixed form of Government is mixed in vain. But this not the position they now stane in—this is their novel sod, e portentous position, that neither the Lords nor the peopi. have confidence in them. They have both abandoTid, them ; they have lost the confidence of the confidence of the Lords they never had. They have And lost the confidence of the Sovereign, and that's all. ; rester on what ground is it stated that that confidence ''„gt. h on on Monday the 14th than it was on Monday e th eased what ground is it that this continued but not inc eased confidence will enable them to carry on the business of the country in the face of the two Houses ? That's the question.—( Hear, hear ) It remains yett unanswered.—(Hear, hear.) Then it comes to this, that Parliament and the country are bound to yield to the PecTlee not wishes of the Sovereign. In the present case it is not the caprice of Parliament—it may be the caprice of the Sore arenidgnn.evelra supposititious case; _ who had less of .e than the Illustrious Personage what may be called esprit, now or, the throne.—( Hear, hear.) But, m am wes n trre m a er p e e ly rs p o u n t, r helieve, my Lords, sup pose the Sovereign says ,- I d on 't c are f or t h e Lords or the Commons —I shall insist on keeping i n my min i ster s, because I shall insist on keeping iu those two Ladies of the Bedchamber." And that's the position in which we are gravely told the country is now placed. That's their case—that's their statement—that's their representatio n, stripped of all the exaggeration and falsehood which has been grafted on that statement—that's the real, u nadulte; rated, unmitigated statement o f t h e C ons titution" principles which the Noble Viscount lays before Parlia ment.—(Hoar, hear.) My Lords, this is new—this is p or tentous—this is strange and uncouth language to heard in this House. We belong to a country, and we a re governed by a Crown, in which the wisdom of Parliament's everything the absolutely r personal feelings of the Sovereign not to be named —to be named inpersonal matters surely-- in all things belongingindividual" and considers' tions to torcs tions to be consulted—to beekindl treated, to be respect fully venerated, t o b e touc h e d Wlt Y lt the most tender, nna cautious, and timid, and shrinking hand, but never to in terfere w ith t h e so b er judgment of Parliament—e•never to interfere for an instant, or to countervail the highest inte restst of the State—never to be allowed te eegulatee m. guide, to govern, or to sway the State affairs of this realo,, That is the language of the Constitution, and if it be i n u t_ then we do inot live in a limited but under an + issu e t o monarchy. Gracious God that I should be oat I argue this and to urge this with Whigs.—( Loud ,29 I Years ; eenten Who m When t Over ti the per was at quest ic Ki ng , lo a d of one ne, uever indep, an un realm Whole the Di is the land, this 0 Them a ladj of thi as eve for e% and t its co Parli