The Sun. — London, England, 1845-06-03 00:00:00

as carriers, tion for any damage or loss sustained to goods in their possession Other clauses were inserted conformable to the " Model Bill ;" and after some amendments of a technical nature, The Committee agreed to report the Bill,and then adjourned. liK. zsvEß.roox. AND 35117.'3T Lamm. The Committee resumed at the usual hour this morning, Sir C. Lemon in the chair. - - • ....... The first witness examined was Mr. T. Taylor, an extensive cotton-spinner, residing in Wigan, who stated that the present cost of sending goods to Liverpool was Ss. 9d. per ton., including cartage; by the proposed railway it would be ss. exclusive of cartage—with cartage, 7s. Most of the machinery used at the Wigan mills was made at Bolton. There were a great many manufacturers of ma. chinery at Bolton, but none in Wigan. The roads between Wigan and Bolton were so hilly, that, though they were only ten miles distant, it occupied a day in carting goods from one place to the other. He principally hired carts, paying at the rate of 6s. Sd. per ton. If the new lime were made it would be only ts. 3d. If the projected line were wade, the traffic between Wigan and Bolton would be greatly in creased. There was a large agricultural district lying on the line projected. Farmers would be greatly benefited by the projected line ; and in respect to passengers, he thought there would be a great number of third-class passengers. The saving both in time and money would be very great to the people of Bolton and Wigan. Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant Beu.asis—Had been in the eo‘lon business for nine years. Had been a tanner, and did not mar, ufacture anything merely spun. Would as soon send twist by railway a; by canal. Obtained machinery from Bolton as well as from Bury. The cost per ton, for machinery from Bolton, was at preseut Cs. Sd. When he said the cost of goods by railway would be 2s. 3d. per ton, he did not include any extra charges, but merely the railway tonnage. The distance between Liverpool and Wigan was twenty-four miles by the present line of communica tion, and by the projected line it would be lessened to 18. Re-examined by Mr. HARDY— It was of great importance to get cotton-twist expeditiously. This railway would afford cheaper conveyance than any other. The opinion of the people was divided in favour of the projected line. Might have slightly over-stated the distance between Liverpool and Wigan half a mile or so. To the Comm ITEEE—Cotton-twist did not suffer by railway car riage. . . . The next witness examined was Mr. Richard Pennington, a cotton-spinner at Hindley. He said—The distance from Hindley to Wigan was three miles, and to Bolton seven miles. These towns lay very close by the projected line of railway. The popu lation of Hindley is about 5,500. That population is chiefly em ployed in the manufacture of cotton, and in working at the col lieries. I employ about 400. I employ steam.engines of 100 horse power. The amount of cotton spun at Hindley per annum is about 2,000 tons. The cotton is nearly all brought from Liverpool. We obtain it chiefly by the Leeds and Liverpool canal—from Liverpool it is taken to Leigh, anti thence carted to Hindley. The distance by this route from Liverpool is about 441 miles. The canal charge is ss. per ton, the cartage from Leigh 2s. per ton, so that the total coast from Liverpool to Hindle' , is about 7s. per ton, ex clusive of cartage and porterage at Liverpool. By the projected line the distance would be limited to about twenty miles. The new line would pass close to Hindley. Re-examined 133. Mr. Sergeant BELLASIS—There would be a triliing cartage, even if the line were formed. There was a rail way branch about two miles from Wigan, but it was of no use to them at Hindley. Re-examined—The price of coals at the pit's mouth in Hindley was 4s. 6d. per ton for a very good quality of coal, and for slack about 25., and for best house coal, ss. 10d. Mr. William Glover, clerk to Messrs. Jackson and Brigg's, so. licitors at Bolton, and clerk to the Cotton Spinners' Association of that town, gave very important and interesting evidence. There are in Bolton 61 cotton factories. From 57 of these I have ob tained the informtion lam about to give in evidence. At 56 there is a horse-power of 1,685 and 793,800 throttle spindles. There are 2,131 power-looms and the weight of raw cotton an nually used is 13,705,636 lbs. The tonnage of coal at 55 out of these 56 cotton factories is 69,278 of common coal and 888 tons of cannel coal. There are in Bolton 15 iron founders and machine makers—of these there are 13 in my table with a power of 433 horses. They employ 2,793 hands. There are 18,390 tons of metal used, and the tonnage of coals is 28,150 tons, and of coke 3,231 tons. There are five bleaching crofts. Two of them have a power of 120 horses. In one of them J 6,000 tons of coal are yearly consumed. There is a paper-mill at Bolton which makes 470 tons of paper annually, and consumes 3,640 tons of coal. The number of people in Bolton in 1841 was 52,380-97,000 and upwwards in the Bolton Union. The assess ment of poor-rate on the factories is 141,3021. The present mode of sending the mails was very circuitous. _ _ _ Mr. Sergeant BELLASIS said he would not and had not disputed the importance of the town of Bolton ; it was, therefore, unneces sary to examine this witness at any greater length respecting the trade of the town. Mr. Thomas Cullen, a magistrate of the borough of Bolton, and a cottton-spinner, was next examined—Employed 200 hands. Worked 21- tons of cotton per week. Had been 44 years in Bolton, and knew that the population of Bolton had nearly doubled during the last twenty-five years. The cost of bringing cotton from Liver pot to Bolton was I Is. per ton by railway alone, and 10s. by rail way and canal. Thought the present mode of communication between Bolton and Liverpool insufficient. The general opinion of the people of Bolton was, that they should have a better mode •f communication with Liverpool. . Mr. Arrowsmith, a cotton-spinner at Bolton, confirmed the tes imony of the last witness. Consumed more than 4,000 tons of ccal per annum, and paid 6s. Bd. a ton for them. Would save 2s. a ton by the proposed line, for they were sold at the pit's mouth along the new line for 3s. a ton, and the carriage would make the difference. The witness went into other calculations, showing that his firm would save 5191. 10s. 4d. by the projected line, and that other manufacturers there save in proportion. Mr. Charles Howard lived at Horwich, near Bolton, which was famous for bleaching—Owned a bleach croft himself, and employed 451,' hands, and bleached 430 tons of cloth per month. Consamed 70 ions of coal per day. Used 36e tons of cannel yearly. Used in bleaching large quantities of flour and China clay, which they got from Liverpool. Their traffic to and from Liverpool was 63 tons per month. The present mode of conveyance was insuffi cient, and thought the proposed line of railway would much benefit .Bolton and Horwich. Thought the present line required that Bolton might retain its present trading position. Cross-examined by Mr. LOWNDEs, Q.C.—Thought the Wigan coal of a good quality, and that the proposed line of railway would cause the price of coal there to increase. Mr. Staten, mayor of Bolton, a bleacher—Thought the pro jected line of railway would afford great accomodation to the bleachers there, and to the townspeople generally. The principal part of the bleaching of England was done at Bolton. The petition in favour of the proposed line was signed by the magistrates and principal persons of Bolton. Knew of no opposition to the line in Bolto.n. Mr. Howard was recalled, and stated that the bleachers of Bolton employed about 4,000 hands, and used 185,957 tons of coal per annum, and 1,240 tons of cannel coal. The total traffic to and from Liverpool, as regarded bleaching materials, was 9,831 tons. Mr. Morris, a druggist in Bolton, complained of the present mode a:bringing goods to and from Bolton and Liverpool. His traffic was ten tons a month. In consequence of the sluggish mode of conveyance the traffic between the towns was not so great as it aught to be. COUNSEL—Don't you get fish from Liverpool ? Witness—Not tr, , uch, for when it comes it is bad.--(Laughter.) This: witness re,lieved the dullness of the proceedings by a story of a lady who, on her way from Bury to Bolton, jumped out, and said she could not wait for it, that she must walk —(Great laughter.) .11. r. Moore, chairman of the Liverpool Dock Trustees, in which witness said a large amount of property was invested. Six new docks had been commenced at the north end of the town. If the projected line of railway were carried out, and the proper com munication established between it and the dock the export of coals would be greatly increased, as well as the export of many other articles which was at present limited. The present Aireign export of coals was 117,718 tons yearly ; and the coasting stonnage of the same article 56,218. This was the; calculation aaede in 1840. Seven-eighths of the whole exports went from the docks at the south end of the town. Mr. John Stones, wholesale grocer and provision dealer, Bolton , confirmed the evidence of Mr. Morris as regarded the desirableness of the projected line. About 450 tons of groceries were monthly brought from Liverpool to Bolton. There were twenty-two rocers in Bolton who supplied the small grocers for seven miles xo and that town. Mr. Hardmood, corn and flour-dealer, gave evidence in favour oft he projected line. r. John Metcalfe was manager to Messrs. Dobsons, machine manm'actuvers at Bolton. Thought the proposed line would greatly benefit 'iis trade, as it would communicate with Wigan, Bury, and HayvOrt;l, which used machinery. His house employed 730 hands, and us,N l 91) tons of coal per week. Thought they would lave 2 s. per ton i,7 cool by the projected line. Part of his employers' business was done a t Wigan on account of the bad commmunication be tween BoltCo and Wigan. The Committee adjourned at four o'clock. GROUP K. prizEcT iffORVTIC/1 It 5 XLWAV. The Committee on thid line met this morning at the usual hour, , rd Sandon in the chair. 1 'revious to the examination of witnesses, Mr. ALEXANDER, Q.C. inforMed the Committee that, acting on of the the suggestion irect t i ros 7n out on Friday last , the promoters D Norsel oh line had entered into negotiations with the engineer of the .Chelmsford and Bury branch, for making amicable arrange ments rt•specting the construction of the rail through Bishop St"rt. ford or Cl, ,9msford, and he was happy to state that those overtures had been met in the fairest spirit, although no specific answer had as yet been received ; he trusted, however, from the courtesy evinced, that a corerromise would be effected. Mr. Rawlins= here !sanded a note to Mr. Alexander, which the latter explained to the committee was an unequivocal refusal on the pert of the Bury and CheiMsford line to enter into any terms or comprOnlise whatever. The Learned Counsel expressed his surprise at this termination ofa negotiation, opened with the fairest and most amicable intentions, and regretted the necessity of pro.. •ceeding with the evidence of witnesses !O establish their case. Mr. JAMES, Q.C., at a subsequent perk of the day, stated that tho reason for breaking off the communicati!;:l was the untenable proOosal of the Direct Norwich to form a bri:llc.t to Wickham broo;:. Such an overture could not be enteruzined for a moment, and despite the opinion of the three engineers, Sir John Rennie, Mr. Robert Stephenson, and Mr. T. Braithwa:te, the promoters of the Bury and Chelmsford line had determined to reject the terms. The evidence of the witnesses was consequently resumed. Cross-examined by Mr. LEE—Is a miller, residing at Little W.ratten, a small town midway between Bury and Bishop Stortford. These is a difference of 3s. a quarter in the price of barley at Ilavei-shill and Bishop Stortford. Is auditor of the Risbridge Union, about; twenty-fiee miles from Bishop Stortford. The price on the present land carriage is lid. p er q uarter per mile, making in all 3s. ; while the price by rail Would be little more than 63d. Riabridge Union comprises a petpulation of 18,000 and an extent of 58,500 acres of the latter 48,750 acres are arable, 7,800 pasture, and 1,930 wotA, giving 12,187 for wheat , 12,187 for barley, 6,093 for peas and bean.s, 6,093 for c lover, of 23 for seed, and 1,323 mown for stover. As to the convey ance s urplus produce, wheat comprises 18,56 1 vs. (allowing 5 qrs. to a t 45,010 quaiters, or (6 on), amounting to 3,712 tons; barley, quarters to a ton), 7,501 tons ; peas and or beans, 19,041 quarters, 3 ,908 tons ; seeds, 165 tons; stover, 2,9.84 tons; and hay, 1,605 o making a total, for export, of 19,095 tons. The oatsirns tons pr-t of etitamnsOunt to 21,060 qrs., or 2,633 tons, giving a total of 21,72 conveyed needing a means of transit. Wheat, peas, and' beans, at present over twenty miles, at 9d. per quarter land carriage; by rail to Stortford, ninateev miles, at lid, per b t y o e n fr p e es mile, is equivalent e to tin i g thus a saving of AO 6:4d. per quarter for the same oistance in barley, a a r n e d s t I m s market. 3n 2s. 9d. per quarter in conveyance by rail In the same proportion a laving of .s. 51d. d . lit oats, would be effected. Cross-examined by Mr. RAWLINSON—The surplus wliea v t in the Union he computed at 13 , 561 qrs. Artificial manure i chiefly procured at Misldon, and coals from Cambridge and Colchester at a considerable cost. Joseph Boreharn, examined by Mr. GIROEN, is a maltster, resid ing at Haverhill ; originally carried on a very extensive trade, but since other towns had been afforded railway facilities, while liaver hill had been left unaccommodated, the trade had almost wholly been withdrawn. Cross-examined by Mr. RAWLINSON—One of the reasons for the decline in the malt trade is the introduction of pale and patent malt instead of brown. Coal is 365. a ton at Haverhill, and during the last winter the suff erin g s of the poor te want of fuel were extreme, while, if a means of transit had existed,:ti2.;s:e disad. vantages would have been obviated. Daniel Gurteen, examined by Mr. HETAgIttIIOII,OI-.-IS a manu. facturer of Haverhill, employing upwards of 600 hands other fac tories in the district, but their traffic Is limited for want of a better means of transit. The present cost for carriage between the town of Haverhill and the metropolis is 245. per ton; that by railway would beabout 12s. or 13s. per ton. The cross-examination of this witness was considered unneces sary, as the Committee were unanimously of opinion that the Bury and Chelmsford line was preferable to the Bury and Bishop Stott ford, as projected by the Direct Norwich, and this scheme was virtually abandoned by the latter Company, though formally re tained during the continuance of collateral opposition. By the traffic table handed in at this period by the promoters of the Direct Norwich Line it appeared that the income expected on that railway from the conveyance of passengers and goods is : From passengers by coach, 14,882/. 11s. 6d.; by post horses, 780/. 9s. 4d.; by gigs, &c., 3,328/. 135.; by spring carts, vans, &c., 4,498/. ; in all, 23,4891. 13s. 10d. Doubling for railway accommodation, the total passenger revenue anticipated is 46,9791. 7s. 3d. For traffic :—Gene ral merchandise, 12,589/. 25. ; agricultural produce, 11,825/. ; live stock, 5,3321. ss. 10d. ; coach parcels and mails, 5,000/. ; carriages, &c., 2,7001. Total goods' revenue, 37,4461. 7s. 10d., which, together with the passenger amount, gives a total of 84,4251. Iss. 6d., deducting 40 per cent. for working expenses, or 33,7701. 6s. 3d., the nett annual income anticipated for the line is 50,6551. 9s. 3d., being 6 2-3 per cent, on the capital sum of 760,000/. John Peto, examined by Mr. LEE—Has contracted for the con. struction of the Direct Norwich line between Bury and Thetford, and is ready to undertake the works for that distance of twelve miles, at a cost of 179,0001., including permanent way, and every thing except the land. The cost between Thetford and Bishop Stortford would be 685,000/. By Lord SANDON—The district north of Bury is easier than that in the Southern parts. No tunnelling will be required on the line, nor any level crossings. The height of the loftiest embank ment will be 50 feet. In consequence of the absence of Sir John Rennie, whose evi dence was considered indispensable at this period of the examina. tion, the Committee deferred the further consideration of the Direct Norwich case till to-morrow, and in the interim proceeded with that of the IPSWICH AND THETPORD LINE. The Bill for this project being unopposed, formal evidence was taken on the traffic, plans, and sections, and the preamble and clauses were immediately passed. The Committee adjourned at four o'clock. GROUP L. PORTSMOUTH ATMOSPHERIC LINE. The Committee on group L sat this morning on the atmospheric line to Portsmouth. Present, Mr. E. B. Denison in the chair; Mr. Oswald, Lord Clive, Mr. R. M. Milnes, and Mr. Vyvian. The Hon. Mr. TALBOT, Q.C., opened in favour of the promoters, and in the course of his observations stated that if there had been a more important string of towns to which for the first time the South- Western Company were about to give the benefit of railway com munication, he could not for a moment pretend to contend with the right they claimed to supply the two important ports of Southamp ton and Portsmouth with their transit to London, but such was not the case, and it was evident that if the South-Western Company obtained their line they would provide but an inefficient line and deprive their shareholders of a portion of their revenues, as the return on the Portsmouth line must be an abstraction of the re turns from the line to Southampton. If two means of convey. ance, however, were established, there would be all the advantages which could possibly be derived by the public, while neither of the companies could possibly be injured. In addition to this, the pro pesed line directly to Portsmouth introduced a new principle, which all allowed to be of the utmost importance if it were available. The bugbear of amalgamation, however, could not here affect the question, because the proposed line must go through the lands of several companies. By the establishment of the atmos pheric line, there would moreover not only be the benefit of corn. petition but the advantages of the testing of a new principle of the highest importance. The expense of constructing a double line of atmospheric railway was undoubtedly greater than the construction of a single locomotive line, but equally undoubted was it that it was not superior, even if it were equal to the con struction of a double locomotive line. The expense of working an atmospheric line was far less than that of a locomotive line, and in proportion as the trade increased the cost of transit was reduced. The first expense was greater, but the po;ver was concentrated, and the interest of the Company was evidently to increase the number of trains. It was, therefore, intended that the Company should make their trains as numerous as possible. On the locomotive lines it was the interest of the Company to attach as many carriages, whe ther of passengers or goods, as they could to one train, so as to re duce their expenditure. An instance of this was given lately by the London and Birmingham Railway Company, who had refused passengers, except by their usual trains, while, on the other hand, it will be to the benefit of the Atmospheric Railway Company to send as few passengers, even as few as ten, by one train. By the report of the Select Committee on the atmospheric principle, it appeared that that principle was, except at the crossing places, both safer and cheaper. In another place they came to the decision that the cost was in all respects cheaper ; and in deciding on competing lines of railway, it was always to be re membered that it should not be held to be an objection to an at mospheric line, simply because the gradients on that line were too severe to be overcome by a locomotive train. He was prepared to call the same witnesses as had been examined before the Select Committee. He thought that it was unfair that they, who had been throughout opposed to the atmospheric principle, should take the benefit out of the hands of those who had struggled day by day, and inch by inch, to carry out a new principle. It was ne cessary to make this statement, as the Berwick Atmospheric Company had lately been placed in a false position, in consequence 'their witnesses, Mr. Brunel included, not having been cross_exa mined, while the witnesses against it, including Mr. Stephenson, Mr. Harrison, and other eminent men in that way, had been kept under examination for three weeks. He, therefore, claimed the right of making the examination in chief short, but of recalling his witnesses for re-examination, so as to elicit as much information as was necessary to explain or refute the evidence. The room was cleared for consideration, and on the re-admission of strangers The CHAIRMAN stated, that considering that by the report of the Select Committee, Parliament had allowed the practicability of the atmospheric principle, and had sanctioned its application, therefore they thought that it would be unnecessary to adduce evidence to demonstrate its advantages. Mr. TALBOT said that this met part of his difficulties, but it did not altogether relieve him from the difficulty of establishing the superiority of the atmospheric principle as tested by fare, speed, and safety. He thought that some declaration should be made by the counsel on the other side as to the course they intended to pursue with regard to the cross.examinatioa of the witnesses he might call. Mr. GURNEY, Q.C., stated the course adopted by Mr. Talbot was the result of consultation between the gentlemen engaged on behalf of the promoters, and he thought that as he was alone this morning he ought to have the same advantages before he gave a decisive reply. Mr. Tamen assented to the reasonableness of the proposition, and proceeded to say that he should say nothing further respecting the atmospheric principle, except to state that it was untried—that the works on the atmospheric line to Epsom were abandoned. The line was certainly not laid down, but it had not been urine. cessarily delayed. The proposed line was intended to restore to the country the traffic which had hitherto passed through the district, and to save the ruinous consequences of a permanent abstraction of the traffic. The line proposed to pass through Croydon to Epsom by the line now in formation, thence to Leatherhead, Micklam, Dorking, Gcdalming, Haslemere, Havant, Chichester, and nearly the same route as the other line. The population had been stated very unfairly by the other side, it being in reality 132,000 on the atmospheric line against 119,000 on the other line. The fares proposed by the atmospheric line for first.elass passengers would be 2d. per mile, for second-class passengers lad. a mile, and for third class pas. sengers Id., making the fare for the whole way, for first-class passengers I Is. 6d. against 215.; second class 9s. against 14s. ; and 6s. for third-class against 6a. 6d. The distance was 69 against 53 miles; the capital 1,400,0001. against 1,000,0001. The works were much the same, the tunnelling on the atmospheric line being 4,230 yards, while on the Guildford line there would be about 4,217 yards. The Atmospheric Company proposed to dispatch 15 trains every day both ways, and to attach third-class carriages to two thirds of the trains, while the South. Western Company only sent nine trains a day, and only one regular third-class train both ways. The time which would be occupied in the journey to Portsmouth by the atmospheric line would be 2* hours, while the South-Western Company would require 33i hours, being a saving of nearly one half. The traffic had also been unfairly re. presented, there having been an evident attempt to under-rate the traffic from Portsmouth. By the coach travelling there had been formerly ten coaches a day, making twenty journeys, thus giving an aggregate of 7,300 journeys in the course of the year, which, at the usual average of nine passengers each journey, made at least 65,700, at 10s. each journey, gave a total of 37,8b01 a year ; doubling this, after the usual railway communication, made 65,7001. Adding to this 20,0001. more for incidental pas. sengers, and 10,0001. for parcels, gave upwards of 90,000/. a year. exclusive of a great portion of the intermediate traffic. By the Guildford line there would be twenty-four public roads crossed at a level, while there would only be eight crossed at a level by the at. mospheric line. He had only further to observe that he might, perhaps, have to trespass on the Committee to some length with the traffic, because that had been so much dwelt upon by the opposite party. With these observations Mr. Talbot closed his address, and called Mr. Grover, a provision -merchant at Portsea, who testified to the general convenience of the termini both at London.bridge and at Portsmouth, espeeially the latter, where the road where the railway terminated was the highway entrance to Portsea, and amply broad enough for the purpose. Mr. Redwarn, a fishmonger and importer of foreign fruit, stated that he had a considerable quantity of goods from London, for which he had to pay ss. a ton for cartage, and the terminus at London-bridge would be of the utmost convenience, as when yes. seis arrived too late in the tide, they could be got down the same evening, while they would of necessity be too late either for Vauxhall or Hungerferd. He now paid 3001. a-year for car riage from London, and would, if this railway were made, have all his London goods by rail, instead of, as now, having a large quantity coastwise. To the inquiries of the CHAIRMAN', the witness stated that he paid ss. a ton for carriage to Vauxhall, 20s. thence to Gosport, and ss. more thence to Portsea. He was not aware that the terminus at London-bridge had no communication with the water. Mr. James W. White, a linendraper, stated that he had fre quently been obliged to have goods by van, instead of by rail, in consequence of the delay, arising partly from the distance of the terminus at Vauxhall from the City, and from the early hour at which it was necessary for the goods to be there. The van was, however, now taken off the road, and great inconvenienee was now felt, as the wholesale houses in the City were generally very busy just at the time when the goods ought to ne sent off, and thus a day was lost. It was his o f inion that the feeling in favour of the atmospheric line was very strong. Mr. Marshall, clerk of the Commissioners of the town o Portsea, testified to the narrowness of the road through the gate over the Unicorn.bridge, it being a single line of road and was the only means of access to the town of Portsea. To the cross-examination of Mr. M. Sarni, the witness stated that passengers might by another route get into the Lion-gate.road which was the main approach to Portsea. The termini of the two railways were about a quarter of a mile from each other. MT. James Paul, a brewer and ale and porter merchant at Parties, stated that he should make a considerable saving if the proposed line were formed. He had had 53 tons down early in May, the cost of which for freight, wharfage, and insurance was 49/. IBs., while, according to the reduced rate of the South. Western Railway, it would have been 26/. 12s. for all the ex penses. By the atmospheric line the charge would be only about two.thirdi of the latter sum. All his ale, and most of his porter went by water, and as much as five or six weeks' delay frequently occurred. If the terminus were at London-bridge he should save Is. a barrel in carriage, and he thought that if this terminus were used that all the goods would go by rail, and the trade to Gosport would almost entirely cease. The ter minus at Portsmouth was also much more convenient than that of the Guilford Extension line. He testified also as to the feeling of the town, and to the signatures to the petition. The Committee here adjourned till twelve o'clock to.morrow. GROUP S. This Committee re-assembled this morning at twelve o'clock, Mr. J. S. Wortley in the chair. MONDONIIIEILItir AND COLZILA.INE IZAILI.I7AY. On the sitting of the Committee the opposition of Mr. Dimsdale was withdrawn, the Committee having intimated that he could not appear against the preamble and the estimate. The case in support of the Bill was then proceeded with. Mr. Jsstes, for the promoters, called Mr. J. Gibb, C.E., who stated that the proposed embankment of Lough Foyle was perfectly practicable, and could be done within the estimate. He had had much experience in draining seas and lakes in Holland, and was, therefore, competent to judge of the proposed works. Major Scott, who reskleti on the banks of Loughl , deuce in favour of the proposed line, which he wouldsaidgave evi_ b of grea t a dvantage to the district through which it would ' pass. Mr. John Ze nnie gave evidence as to the increasing trade of Coleraine. The trAdi since 1826 had doubled. Mr. James Smith Ylm and stated that he valued the land fioufh Foyle at 31. an sere il annum. ,bad been reclaimed ii9.l 4 Mr. Samuel Eason, a land-surveyor at Newtown Linivady, was called, and said that the land to be reclaimed from the lough was worth, in his opinion, 25 years' purchase. Mr. Samuel Hemming, contractor for public works, proved that the embankments could be made within the estimates. Mr. James Beadle, a surveyor, of London, gave similar evidence. Mr. Lanyar, the engineer of the proposed line, was called— The cost of the line over the embankment would be 14,0001. a mile. The Committee decided that the preamble had been proved, and adjourned at four o'clock till to-morrow. GROUP SS. The Select Committee on this group re.aesembled shortly after one o'clock this afternoon, and proceeded with the case for the promoters of the COVENTRY, SET/WORTH, AND NUNEATON IZAILVJAY. Mr. CALTERT intimated that since Saturday a negotiation had been going on between the promoters and opponents of the Bill. The negotiation had not yet been brought to a close, but, if the Committee had no objection to adjourn till twelve o'clock to. morrow, he had no doubt such an arrangement would be come to as to render it unnecessary for the Committee to waste any further time on the subject of the railway. The CHAIRMAN asked whether all the opposing parties were wiling to consent to such an arrangement? Mr. DANIEL replied that, on the part of those for whom he appeared, he was instructed to concur in the application for all adjournment, upon the specific ground that the traffic tables had not been delivered till last night, nothwithstanding that the Com mittee had directed that the delivery should be made on Saturday. Under these circumstances, he had as yet had no opportunity to look into the tables, so as to put himself in a position to cross examine the witness who had made them. Mr. HUMPHREYS, for the same reason as that stated by Mr. Daniel, was willing to consent to an adjournment. The CHAIRMAN could not help thinking that the traffic tables ought to have been delivered earlier. It would put the Committee to great inconvenience to adjourn, but as an amicable arrangement was likely to be come to between the parties, the Committee had no alternative but to put up with the inconvenience, and accede to the application for an adjournment. Mr. DANIEL remarked that he was quite in the shade as to the negotiation mentioned by his Learned Friend, and added that his only reason for wishing for an adjournment was to enable him to examine the traffic tables. The CHAIRMAN said it appeared to him to be very like a one sided negotiation. Mr. CALTERT was surprised that any difficulty had been thrown in the way of an adjournment, for before the Committee met his two Learned Friends appeared to be quite favourable to an ad journment. However, as they were now oppised to such a step, he begged to withdraw his application. Mr. DANIEL said that he was now placed in the position •f his Learned Friend, and would in his turn, for the reason he had al. ready mentioned, pray the Committee to adjourn till to-morrow. The CHAIRMAN thought the engineering and traffic evidence ought to have been put in at an earlier period. Had that been done, there would have been no necessity for complaints, or an ap plication of this nature. Mr. CALVERT had pursued the usual course of business adopted in Railway Committees. It was usual to close the case for the promoters with the traffic tables and engineering evidence. The CHAIRMAN had served on many Committees, and he confessed on those Committees the engineering evidence was always put in at an early stage of the proceedings. Mr. CALVERT reminded the Committee that In the London and York, Leeds and West Riding, Sheffield and Newark, and in other important Committees the engineering evidence had come last. Mr Hurr said a good deal of the miscellaneous evidence had been quite unnecessary; indeed, he thought, in some respects, it had been against instead of in favour of the railway. The CHAIRMAN concurred in the latter observation of his Hon. Colleague. Decidedly, the evidence of the last day or two was rather against than in favour of the promoters. Mr. CALVERT admitted that the evidence of some of the wit nesses had materially differed with his instructions. With regard to the traffic table, the fact was the clerks were at work upon them from the very hour the Committee adjourned on Saturday, and it was quite impossible for them to finish the tables earlier than they had done. The room was then cleared, and the Committee having deli berated for a few minutes, strangers were admitted, when The CHAIRMAN announced that the Committee did not think sufficient ground had been made out for an adjournment. Mr. Humphrey Brown, who had made out the traffic tables, then proceeded to explain to the Committee the basis upon which he had made his calculations ; after which he was cross-examined at considerable length by Mr. MURPHY and Mr. DANIEL, with a view of showing that he had assumed that the carriage of the pro duce of all the collieries on the line, whether near to or distant from, Coventry, would be charged at one price—lid. per ton per mile—namely, Id. for toll and id. for the use of waggons. He admitted, therefore, that a collier, whose mine was twelve miles from Coventry, would have to reduce the price of his coals to enable him to compete in the Coventry market with a collier, whose mine was only six miles from that town. He admitted that, during some portion of the time that he was making his calculations, the canals of the district were frozen up, but shortly after the thaw he calculated the traffic by these conveyances, and, of course, the advantage was in favour of the canal, because immedi ately after a thaw the coal traffic for the first two or three weeks is always very considerably increased. Mr. John Addison, an engineer, residing in Delahay-street, Westminster, said the length of the line was six miles, fifty-eight chains, and fifty links, and was the most favourable that could be marked out for accommodating the mineral traffic of the district through which it passed. The junction of the Leamington with the London and Birmingham Railway was about half a mile from the Coventry station of that line, and the junction of the pro posed railway with the same line was about another quarter of a mile further on. The line would form a junction with the London and Birmingham Railway on an inclination of 1 in 330, or 16 feet per mile. At passing this inclination the line came to a level plain for about twenty chains. It then came to a rise of lin 200 for about a mile, and this line run on another level for about ten chains, and then the line rose lin3 )0 forlabout a mile. The line then ran along a level plain for about half a mile, and then came to a rise of 1 in 176 for nearly a mile, and then it came to a level for about a mile and a quarter. The line then came to a rise of 1 in 619 which extended for about half a mile, and at the ex tremity of this inclination the line formed *junction with the Trent Valley Railway. There were no tunnels nor engineering difficulties on the line. The line would pass on a level across seven roads, which would be amply guarded and protected from danger. The Speaker being here announced at prayers, the Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow. GROUP N. CORNWALL RAILWAY. The Committee met in Room No. 3, at twelve o'clock. ENGINEERING EVIDENCE. Mr. Brunel was examined by Mr. MERREVIETHER on behalf of the promoters of the Bill. He said that he was the engineer of the Great Western and South Devon Railway., and when he laid the latter line down it was with the design of carrying it on to Cornwall. He had considered how the proposed line could be carried across the Hamoaze, and had reported to the Board of Trade on the subject. The plan which Captain Moorsom had detailed of carrying the trains across the Hamoaze would, in his opinion, be successful. The boat at present in use with improvements would be sufficient to convey the carriages from one side to the other in safety. In the event of his reporting in favour of the line, the Great Western, the South Devon, and the Birmingham and Gloucester Companies 'proposed to become joint shareholders to the amount of 250,0001. He had, in consequence, examined the plans and sections drawn up by Captain Moorsom, and had gone over the proposed line. He reported in favour of the line, and recommended those companies to pay their quota of that sum, and become joint proprietors of it, which they did. It was a special instruction from the companies that It should be surveyed for both locomotive and atmospheric power, and that it might be applicable to either. There were curves on the line of 15 chains, but he had seen smaller curves than that worked with safety—on the Great Western, and Bristol and Exeter lines, for instance. The effect of short curves were over.rated, but not generally so. If a curve was well constructed it would not have much effect on the traffic. At the Bath station they had a radius of between 30 and 40 chains, on the: Bristol a radius of 11 to 11 chains, yet 25 to 30 miles an hour were accomplished without inconvenience. The dis advantages in the construction of the proposed line would be met with in other parts of the country. They could not avoid sharp curves and steep gradients. A speed of from twenty-two to thirty miles an hour might be obtained on these steep gradients and sharp curves. If atmospheric traction were used greater velocity could be obtained. The Bodmin branch could be worked with locomotive power without inconvenience. At the Hamoaze the railway carriages would be run on the boats in the same way as private carriages, and removed in a similar manner. The process was exceedingly simple. No longer time would be consumed here than two minutes, and not snore than was occupied on other lines in breaking up the trains and starting them afresh. The boat might be easily made to oarry six carriages. One million, the estimated amount, would be sufficient to construct the line, and render it fit for locomotive power. The witness was examined by Mr. Rowe, but nothing was eli cited to show that the line, with its curves and gradients, could not be effectively worked. A line to the north of Bodmin might be made, but it would net meet the wants of the district. Mr. P. Smith, the solicitor to the Cornwall Company, was then called by Mr. Rowe, for the purpose of being examined with re spect to the consent of the Board of Ordnance with regard to the line crossing the glacis at Devonport. He stated that the Board had proposed the insertion of a clause in their Pill, to the effect that they would consent to their passing the glacis in the event of the Falmouth Docks Bill passing, but, if it did not pass, they should withhold their consent. Mr. MERREWEIVER said that was the case for the promoters of the Bill. EVIDENCE ON REHILF OP VIE PETITIONER. Mr. Rowe then called Mr. Humphrey Williams, of Truro, a banker, and connected with th• copper trade there and in Wales — For the last thirty years he had been acquainted with the agri cultural and commercial interests of Cornwall. A line from Fal mouth, avoiding Penryn, to Truro, and avoiding Mr. Thomas's property altogether, passing on eastward to Bodmin, by Liskeard, Saltash, &c., and so on to its destination, could be constructed with equal if not greater advantage to the public. The greater portion of the ores raised were shipped and would not go by the coast line, as was stated. The agricul tural produce of Neybrldge and its neighbourhood, which was a considerable corn-growing country, would not go by the line. Granite, instead of going by the line, would be shipped at Penryn— it could be conveyed cheaper to London and other places in this way. The population of Cornwall was 350,000. The majority of those residing in the south were opposed to it. Sir Joseph Saul, Mr. Tremaine, and other large landed proprietors, were among the number. There would be no difficulty in raising the money for such a line as he had pointed out. If the coast line were constructed, it would be a great obstacle to other railway accommodation for a great many years to come. The mining interest were decidedly opposed to it. By Mr. M. SMITH—Was the banker for a rival scheme. The district through which it was proposed to carry the line did not produce one-sixth of the ore raised in the mines between Falmouth and Plymouth. Mr. Tremaine—Had represented the county in Parliament, and was a large landowner, having his principal residence at two or three miles from St. Austel. He was conversant with the mines in that part of Cornwall, and was of opinion that none of the mineral pro. duce would go by the line, nor the materials consumed in the mines. A line like that alluded to in the examination of the last witness would be of greater advantage to the country than the pro. posed one. They were desirous of having a direct communi cation with Falmouth from Exeter, and would no doubt obtain it if the south scheme were abandoned. By Mr. M. SMITH—Had been desirous of obtaining railway ac commodation in Cornwall since 1830. He was a friend of rail ways, and held a number of shares in the Great Western. Had said that it wou'd be desirable if the Great Western would carry on their line direct from Exeter to Falmouth. Re-examined by Mr. ROWE—Was desirous of having efficient railway accommodation into Cornwall, and would bear a share in the expense of surveying the country for that purpose. The avoidance of the Hameaze would be an advantage in railway ac commodation. Mr. Pendarves, M.P. for the western division of the county, a chairman of the quarter sessions, and generally acquainted with the county. He said he was a considerable holder of shares, and was familiar with the south coast between Plymouth and Pal. mouth. He was of opinion that the coast line would not carry much of the ore or much of the materials used in the mines. The other line indicated on the map by a red line would offer far greater facilities. St. Columb, Collington, and other districts which did nut grow sufficient agricultural produce for their own consump_ would have su c h pro d uce by the line of which he was i n Savour in plac e o f t h e coast line. He was in favour of a line which would not cram thF Hamo afe, and avoiding the or4natic ct tin ro 4 e • • at Devonport. The inhabitants of Penryn were adverse to its pass ing that creek. He would do all he could to aid a proper and effi cient line of communication to the country. Mr. Richard Davie, of Redruth (which is on the line of the West Cornwall), examined—His brother and he were owners of mines. He was well acquainted with the mines in the south, and agreed with Mr. Williams and Mr. Pendaives that the proposed line would not carry the ores or the materials used in the mines in that district. The other line would be used to a great extent, and would offer far greater facilities. Mr. Aviary, timber-merchant, said he imported timber from the north as well as the south coast. He imported timber between Falmouth and Truro, and along the south coast generally. He agreed in the opinions expressed by the other witnesses called on behalf of Mr. Thomas, the petitioner against the Bill, that tha coast line would no,t offer so many inconveniences for the transit cf these and other materials as the ether tine specified in the map as the " red" or " northern line." The Committee then adjourned. GROUP F. The Committee met this day at twelve o'clock, in Room No. the Right Hon. F. Shaw in the chair. The Committee resumer the inquiry into THM MOLTDCN, WORCESIVISTZ, AND SOUTiE STOLDIX sir. R.IIICLVJAY. Mr. Sanders, examined by Mr. COCKBURN—With regard to that part of the report of the Board of Trade referring to our inten tion of guaranteeing the Severn navigation from loss, the Board reports that we have not done so, but it is our intention to carry out that guarantee. Cross-examined by Mr. DANIEL—With regard to the population on both lines, I have since prepared tables of the population, and they are as follows: Population from Oxford to Evesham :—Headington, 1,668 — Marston, 396—Elsfield, 185—Wood Eaton, 62—Wolvercott, 470 —Wytham, 189—Ensham, I,B93—Cassington, 381—Yarnton, 302 --Begbroke, 110—Kidlington, I,3o3—South Leigh, 326—Church Handborough, I,oo9—Bladon, 687—North Leigh, 6l7—Combe, 605—Woodstock, I,4l2—Wilcote, 9—Stonefield, 553—Hurley, I,44o—Claarlbury, 2,9B2—Spilsbury, 597—Ascot, 463—Sars den, 179—Shipton under Wychwood, 2,624—Fyfield, 213 Idbury, 207—Westcote, 240—Bledington, 354—Kingham, 555-- Churchill, 651—Cornwell, 97—Daylesford, 81—A ddleshop, 200— Churtleton, 239—Stowe.on-the-Wold, 2,l4o—Upper Swell, 80 _Broadwell, 345—Little Compton, 301--Evenlosle, 325 Loughborough, 625—Seizincote, 67—Moreton in the Marsh, 1,345 —Batsford, 79—Great Walford, 585—Todenham, 474—Blockley, 2,l36—Shelton on Foss, 434—Chipping Campden, 2,oB7—Elring ton, 583 Saintbury, 133—Weston Subedge, 134—Mickleton, 698—Long Marston, or Marston Sicca, 337—Pebworth, 829. Total, 37,378. Population of Places between Marsworth and Bicester, and be tween Fenny Compton and Evesham, on the London and Wor cester and South Staffordshire Railway, exclusive of the two Termini. From Marsworth to Aylesbury :—Cheddington, 439—Drayton Beauchamp, 231—Buckland, 534—Aston Abbots, 356—Win grave, 814—Puttenham, 136—Aston Clinton, I,o2s—Weston Turville, 718—Hulcot, 133—Bierton, 605—Aylesbury, 5,429. Total, 10,420. From Aylesbury to Bicester:—Hartwell, 138—Stone, 809— Quarrington, 64—Fleet Marston, LS—Hardwick, 747—Whit. church, 930—Oving, 391—Pitchcott, 68—Quainton, I,oBl— I,7so—VVooton Underwood, 265—Grendon Under. wood, 384—Luggershall, 566—Piddington,427—Ambroseden, 892 —Edgcott, 195—Marsh Gibbon, 863—Stratton Audley, 319—Staun ton, 619—Wendlebury, 214—Chesterton, 393—Middleton Stoney, 309—Bicester, 2,022. Total 14,484. From near Fenny Compton to Petworth Gaydon, 276 Chadshunt, 36—Lighthorne, 384—Kineton, 1,248 Butler's Marston, 313—Radley, 397—Radway, 374—Oxkill, 348 W hatecote, 182—Pillerton Percy, 217—Loxley, 318—Upper and Lower Eatington, 704—Alderminster, 508—Whit. church, 247—Preston.on-Stour, 394—Atherstone-on .Stour, 93-- Clifford Chambers, 309—Stratford-on-Avon, 3,32l—Lower Quin ton, 666—Weston.upon-Avon, 161—Welford, 738—Binton, 269 —Bidford, I,s67—Dorsington, 141—Long Marston, or Marston Sicca, 337—Pebworth, 829. Total, 14,377. Population of places within three miles on either side of the Moreton-in-the-Marsh and Stratford-on-Avon Railway :—Lower Leamington, 53—Great Wolford, 311—Toddenham, 474—Bur. mington, 720—Tidmington, 70 Barchetton, 44—Shipton-on- Stour, I,B46—Honington, 335—Tredington, 287—Flirnington, 873—Halford, 425—Lower Eatington and Upper Eatington, 704 —Alderminster, 508— Whitchurch, 247—Preston-on-Stour, 394 Lower Quinton, 666—Atherstone-on-Stour, 93—Clifford Cham bers, 309—Weston-upon-Avon, 161—Stratford-on-Avon, 3,321. Total, 11,841. Crose.examination continued—l have been guided by a diagram drawn up some time since. Mr. D &NIEL- We knew nothing of it. Mr. COCILBURN-It was made by the London and Birmingham Company, and surely you cannot disown it. Mr. Saunders—lt was made about seven years ago by the London and Birmingham Company, in promotion of their line from Chel tenham to Tring. Mr. DANIELS—We cannot take it as evidence; it is not your own getting up, and it was got up by us for a totally different purpose to this inquiry, with which it has nothing to do. The Cualawsx—We had better not examine Mr. Saunders on it, as it is not his own evidence. Mr. Saunders then retired, The evidence on both sides having closed, Mr. COCKBURN addressed the Committee. The time had at length arrived when he would have an opportunity of laying before the Committee in argument the case which he had to urge on behalf of the promoters of the Wolverhampton, Worcester, and Oxford shire, and of the Rugby and Oxford line of railway, and he was glad that this opportunity had arrived, for he could not but regret, on behalf of his clients, that that period had been so long deferred. He did not express his satisfaction that the time had come from any belief on his part that his humble powers would do much fer his clients, but he really did feel that the great delays which had taken place in giving him an opportunity of making his ob. servations on their behalf, had greatly tended to their disadvantage. First, there had been before the Committee, from their first sitting, a report of the Board of Trade, and no doubt that was a competent authority to make such a report, but it was the means, to a certain extent, of prejudicing the case, for it was, he con sidered, assumed by the Committee that that report was founded on a full consideration of the subject at issue. He thought the result of the evidence, as far even as it legitimately went, must have satisfied the Committee, without casting the slightest imputation upon the Honourable Board, that 'they had not sifted the case, inasmuch as it was proved they had not heard the statement of one of the parties in comparison with the other. They could not have made oat a prima facie case for their report, which was not based on cogent reasoning. Yet he could not but feel that a report of that nature, emanating from such an authority, and having the semblance of reason in its favour, and apparently in some degree supported by evidence, would naturally be calculated to produce a strong impression on the minds of Honourable Members. Again he could not but remember that the case for the other side was opened by his Learned Friend Mr. Austin, in a speech calculated to uphold the conclusions at which the Board of Trade had arrived. He did think, looking at the report on which the case for the other side was based, accompanied with all the elaborate ornamentation in which the exuberant playfulness of his Learned Friend's fancy abounded, and the singular grace which he imparted to all these matters, that it was calculated to possess a degree of favour in the eyes of the Committee which he thought under no other circumstances it would have received. His Learned Friend opened this case in a speech of some two hours, and certainly a most eloquent opening it was, for though he (Mr. Cockburn) had not had the advantage of hearing it, he had read it word for word, and he was convinced that more able argu ments never were addressed to this or any other Committee. And he could not disguise from himself that the effect of that address, coming upon that report, and followed up by evidence which, no doubt, was calculated to give it a form of solidity and substance—with all this to contend against, he could not conceal from himself that there must necessarily have been much less chance for their case meeting with a favourable reception from the hands of the Committee, than their case would have had but for those circumstances, by which the others have, in the first place, ob tained a footing and ingratiated themselves with the Committee. He, therefore, did not disguise it from himself —and, If he should happen to be mistaken, be should sincerely rejoice —but he could not help thinking (and he was sure the Committee would under. stand that he did not use words, which in any case, could be tortured into a want of respect to the Committee) that their case was to some extent prejudiced in the minds of some Hon. Members en the Committee. By the time their adversary's case was completed, there was an impression on the minds of the Committee prejudi cial to the case he was engaged for. It was natural that it should be so, for their opponent's case had been recom mended by the report. It was supported by a most able address, and aided by a series of evidence which undoubtedly required strong evidence on their part to break down. The result was, that there was, to a certain extent, a determination on the question in some of the Hon. Members' minds before they had heard the other side of the question, and he well knew the difficulty which that placed on a party, however strong his case might be ; not but he did every Hon. Member of the Committee the full justice to believe that he and they, one and all, had moral courage enough to avow to themselves—ay, and to others—if they had expressed an opinion based upon one view of the case, that that opinion should be eradicated from their minds, if they once became satisfied that that opinion so formed and so conveyed was founded upon error. The CHAIRMAN said he could assure Mr. Cockburn that he was in error if he supposed that any such opinion was formed. Mr. COCKBURN received that statement with great joyfulness and thankfulness, and he begged to assure them that he had formed that opinion in common with his colleagues. He rejoiced to think it was not so, and he entered on the discussion of the case with, he owned, a weight relieved from his mind, for which he could not be sufficiently thankful. He would proceed now at once to the case. It was one undoubtedly of very great importance ; and he did not know that he took an erroneous view of the case, but it did not appear to him to be one of that magni. tude and importance which the other side sought to invest it with. It appeared to him, that as far as the Board of Trade was con- cerned, there never was a more complete mystification han that which had been practised upon their minds. It had been sought to make this a question of national importance with regard to the two gauges—whether the preference should be given to the wide or narrow gauge. It seemed to him that that was not the question at all. The simple question here was, whether one of two lines communicating between the Staffordshire mineral district on the one hand, and Oxfordshire and the district around it on the other—and here it has been that the cunning, the artifice of the adversary had succeeded fo an extraordinary degree in their endeavour to persuade the Board of Trade and the Committee that that was not the ques. tion, but that the question was to be viewed with another, as he submitted, wholly foreign to it, and which had not the remotest bearing whatever upon the case. The question be fore them was that of two competing lines, to connect, by means of railway communication, the mineral districts of South Staffordshire with Worcester and Oxford, and the districts around. The question was, which of the two systems was the better. It was very true that it did so happen that one line was to be en the broad and the other on the narrow gauge. It might be incidental to the question to determine which of the twe the Committee would give the preference. If they thought one so superior to the other as that that superiority should alone entitle one line to the preference over the other. But that is not the question which the Board of Trade had taken up, which appeared to be, that in one line with which this has no connexion whatever, except that it runs into it, the narrow gauge should be substituted for the broad. He did not dispute but that that might be a grave question. but it did net arise upon this inquiry, and he should presently show why. But before lie entered into the discussion of the gauges, let the question be considered as if there were no gauges at all—let them put aside the question as to whether on the Birmingham and Bristol lines of railway they would prefer the broad or narrow gauge, and consider which line they would prefer, irrespective of that question. Then he would have no diffiulty to show to the Committee that, viewed alone on that which appeared to him the legitimate scope of in. quiry, the line which he advocated was decidedly entitled to a preference at their hands. After that question, then, he would come to the ether. He would then submit whether the Great Western line was to be entitled to the prefer. ence of the Committee irrespectively of the question of gauge. Then he thought he should be able to show that the question of guage cannot deprive the Great Western line of that preference to which he should submit to them, on the whole of the evidence, it was entitled. Take the first question now. The line advocated by the Great Western Company proposed to connect the mineral dis tricts of South Devonshire with Oxfordshire and the.surrounding districts. No one can appreciate too highly the importance of con. necting the South Staffordshire district, both with the North and the South, and the neighbourhood of Oxfordshire. . . The Learned Counsel, after going into the evidence submitted on the other ide, closed a very able address by calling on the Committee to pass the preamble of the Bill._ . . . . The Committee rose at (our o'clock And adjourned to twelve o'clock to-morrow, GROUP V. The Committee met this day and proceeded to hear the further cross examination of Mr. Cope, which had been adjot:rned from the Saturday evening, on the subject of the traffic tables. The witness was questioned at great length as to his details, but without in the slightest degree causing hint to alter the substance of his tables. Mr. Skidmore, an accountant and assistant in the formation of the tables to the last witness, was examined by Mr. BAINES, and stated that he had placed men on different stations of the intended and neighbouring lines, and he was satisfied from daily examination that the returns given were correct. He afterwards assisted Mr. Cope in making them up. Mr. Gibbs, C.E., was called, and examined by Mr. ADAM—He had examined the line, and thought the proposed one the very best line that could be laid nut. He had examined the estimates, including the permanent way, and he thought them correct. The length of the line was 12 miles l furlongs. The gradient de scending into Sheffield would be a severe one, but as the bulk of the waggons would descend it, it would be of the less consequence. ll^ steepest gradient was 1 in SO, and that was only for a length of 11 miles. The viaduct into Sheffield he thought constructed in the best possible manner, but he :could not give an °pi as to the value of the property beside it. lie thought the height of the piers were 25 feet, and he was - of opinion that they would not inteifere prejudicially with the market. He believed that there would be sufficient stone taken from the cuttings on the line to construct the stations, &c. He had also a list of the borings, some of which he had examined, and he was of opinion that the different strata on the line were most fa. vourable. Cross-examined by Mr. WHATELEY—He did not anticipate any danger from the fact that the viaduct at Sheffield would be built over a coal formation, because he observed that near the pro posed line they were building churches, large houses, and mane. factories of infinitely greater weight than a viaduct 20 feet high. He supposed, from the existence of that very fact, that the coal had not been exhausted. He considered the first ten miles from Sheffield very heavy work, but he was confident there were many lines heavier. Sir J. R. REI D—lf you were asked to lay out a line having re ference to these coal.fields, and communicating with Chesterfield and Sheffield, would you adopt this line 7 ➢lr. Gibbs—l would. Mr. Ilawkshaw, C.E., said, that without examining the line, the sections and plans were sufficiently explanatory of the engineering works upon it, and he fully agreed in the opinion already given by Mr. Gibbs, and on a preceding day by Mr. Vignolles. The Committee adjourned till to-morrow. GROUP W. DRAYTON AND GOOLE RAILWAY. The Committee on this line met to-day at 12 o'clock, Mr. Pakington, chairman ; Lord Seymour, the Hon. Mr. Maxwell, Mr. Bouverie, and Mr. Whitmore present. The examination of the merits of the proposed line was then continued, and Mr. Fletcher, whose evidence was partly heard on Saturday, proceeded to state that 2,500 tons of stone were yearly sent from the quarries in the neighbourhood of Leeds, and exported from Goole. A line was at present being constructed near the quarries, which would greatly increase the facilities of exportation. Some of the docks and bridges at London have been built with the stone from this district. The proposed line would greatly increase this trade. The chief market for the stone was London. Woodhouse stone was an excellent stone for common purposes. Coals at present came on the Leeds and Selby line. Thought that coal would come from the collieries in the West Riding by the proposed line to Goole. From his opinion of the comparative merits of Goole and Selby, as ports for the exportation of the coal of the district, a great portion of the coal which now went to the latter place, would if this line were formed, go to Goole. About 50,000 tons of mer chandise (sugar, wool, indigo, soap, spirits, fuller's-earth &c.) came from London to Goole in the year 1844. This quantity all went to the Bradford and Leeds district. A great proportion of this quantity would go by this line. Keeps two steam boats for passengers, one plying between Goole and York, and the other between Hull and York. There was another party who had a vessel plying between Hull and York. Received 2501. per week as his gross receiptslfor the Goole boat, and rather more for goods. The receipts of the other boat he should say were more. The receipts of the Hull boats from Goole to York were about the same as the Goole boat, but from Hull double that amount. In his opinion the whole of this traffic now shipped at Selby would be trans:erred to Goole. It would be very injurious to himself. The feeling at Goole was very much in favour of the proposed line. In his opinion the corn from the eastern district would continue to be conveyed by water from Goole inland, in preference to any railway. Cross-examined by Mr. WiLxixs —Did not know whether stone could come down by railway. A considerable portion of this stone came from Bradford. About 30,000 tons came from Halifax, and the districts on the Manchester and Leeds line. Probably half of the wool that goes from Goole goes to Bradford. Thought that if the Wakefield, Pontefract, and Poole line were made direct and saved four miles in the distance, it would be a preferable one to the Brayton and Goole line. The cost of carriage for sugar from London to Leeds was Ss. 4d. per ton. Of this sum ss. was for the sea carriage, and 3s. 4d. by canal. If the rail charged 2d. per ton per mile, the canal would be a cheaper mode of conveyance. The Leeds and Selby Railway Company made an offer to take his goods at a low rate from Selby to Leeds, but he preferred to con tioue sending them by the Aire and Calder canal. By Mr. Buss—Shipped 2,000 tons of coals twice in November, am' twice in December last year at Goole, for London. It was a winning trade. It came by boats from York. He is at present under a contract to ship 700 tons weekly from Goole. The time of t he commencement of the contract did not depend on the construction of any railway. Could not say of his own knowledge where the stone that heshipped from Goole came from. Sent 10,240 tons of general merchandise last year from Goole to Leeds by water. Included in this 1,014 tons of wool, or thereabouts. He got in returned cargoes from Leeds, 300 tons of goods. By Mr. KNOWLES—He had received that morning a letter in re ference to a large contract for coals, which was made with the pros pect of the proposed line being laid down. Mr. Hamer Stansfield, examined by Mr. KNOWLES—Was Mayor of Leeds last year. Was extensively engaged in trade with Ger many for the last eight years. Had a house in Hamburgh. Ex ported from 300 to 400 tons of worsted stuff goods annually. Before the Hull and Selby line was made his goods went to Goole for exportation. When the line from Selby to Hull was made, he changed his shipping port for Null, but if the present Brayton and Goole line were laid down he would go back to Goole. His reason for so doing would be the increased facility for dock accommodation, as well as being a more direct line (saving a distance of twenty miles), and also the cheaper rates which the competition would necessarily cause. The proposed line would afford greater accommodation than the Wakefield and Goole line. Cross-examined by Mr. Wtxxiws—Had shares in the York and North-Midland Counties, and several other lines. A great part of the goods from Bingley, Shipley, and other towns in that district, were taken to Bradford. If the Wakefield and Goole line were four miles shorter than the proposed one, it would be preferable as a transit from Goole to Bradford ; but he considered the gradients of the Brayton and Goole line were much better, and more than counterbalanced the saving in distance of the Wakefield and Goole line. By Lord SEvatourt—Said that the propose° line, if carried out, would have the effect of making Goole and Hull competing ports ; and, on the same principle, he would have no objection to have both lines, believing that thereby a stimulus would be given to trade. Mr. Alihewson. a merchant, resident in Newcastle. upon. Tyne, was next examined. He stated that he was engaged in the mans. facture of sod; bleaching powders, and chemical preparations. He sent 400 tons annually to Manchester, but in consequence of the in sufficiency of railway accommodation, he could not send it direct, but was obliged to send it by ship to Liverpool, and thence to Man chester. He could send it by rail at present, but he would be obliged to send it a distance of 200 miles of a round about. The route in that case would be from Newcastle to Darlington, from Darlington to York, from York to Normanton, and thence to Manchester. The cost by this mode would be enormous, the cost by ship, aid Liverpool, was 255. per ton. They were frequently two months in getting to Manchester at present by ship. If the Manchester and Leeds Company conveyed his goods at the same rate as the other lines, about id. per ton, the cost by rail from Newcastle to Manchester would be 275. 6d. per ton; but the Manchester and Leeds Company would not do so, for the purpose (as he thought) of sending the traffic to the port of Hull. Cross-examined by Mr. WILKINS. There were manufactories for soda, alkali, and soap, at Liverpool, Warrington, and Hull. Thought he bad facility to supply the Manchester trade at as cheap a rate as any of those places, notwithstanding the increased cost of carriage which he would have to pay from Newcastle. Supplied three-fourths of the crystals of soap used in the kingdom. Had a great hand in the making over of the North Midland Railway to Mr. Hudson. Mr. James Allport, manager of the Newcastle and Darlington line, was next examined, and gave evidence, at great length, on the nature, extent, and cost of carriage of the traffic on the line with which he was connected, and read portions of a long correspon dence, detailing the negotiations he had been engaged in with Capt. Lawes on the part of the Manchester and Leeds Company. On the cross-examination of this witness, he admitted that Mr. Hudson had the command of lines of railway to almost all the towns on the eastern coast of England. Mr. Arthur Maude examined by Mr. PICKERIND—Was a sugar_ refiner at Goole. Supplied Leeds, Bradford, York, Liverpool, and Manchester with sugar, but principally the three first. He sent 1,200 tons annually to these places. Consumed from twenty to thirty tons of coal weekly in the manufacture of it. This wit ness pointed out the great advantage which he, in common with others in the town of Goole, would derive from the formation of this litre by having increased facilities for the conveyance of their manufactures, and also by being able to procure coals, &c., more conveniently and cheaply. As the cross.examination of this witness was about to com mence, the Speaker was announced to be at prayers, and the Com mittee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow. GROUP X. LONDON AND YORK LINE. The Committee sat this day at twelve o'clock, in Committee room No. 8. Mr. S. C. DENISON announced that he appeared on behalf of Lord Scarborough. Mr. Sergeant WRANGIIAM—IS it to the preamble of the Bill? C HA I RM A N—Yes. Mr. Sergeant WRANGMAM said he understood that the petitions of lat.downers were confined to Sir William Milner, he being the only one who appeared at the time. Mr. DENISON said that this was the first time he appeared before the Committee, and did so now, because he had been led to under. stand that the power of Lord Scarborough to appear at any time during the investigation had been reserved to Lord Scarborough. The CHAIRMAN said that that was his impression. --- Mr. M. SMITH then proceeded to cross-examine Mr. Cubitt, but the noise in the room rendered the questions and answers for a few minutes inaudible. The witness was understood to say that it was in September, 1844, he was appointed engineer to the line. The line proposed to go about thre e m il es through Lord Salisbury's property ; did not hear that the Company were about to abandon that. The number and names of all the stations on the line had not been at all fixed. The stations on such a line formed a very important item in the estimate. There were to be stations at Lon don and York, besides ten other stations of the first class, ten of the second, and twenty of the third class. He allowed 350,000/. for all the stations—that was to say, 150,0001. for the London, 50,000/. for the York, and 150,0004. for all the other stations; on the loup there was to be one station at every ten miles at an average; for the station at Sheffield he allowed 7,000/. ; had estimatad the ten main stations at county towns at 10,000/. each, inclusive of land; thinks that would he ample; has not fixed on the places for the stations in the different towns ; the quantity of land required for each depended upon local circum stances ; say from an acre to three acres for each ; even considering the establishment of coal depots, the money he had mentioned would be sufficient if all this was exclusive of the London station. The CHAIRMAN here referred to the direct evidence of the wit. nets, and said he had given 117,680/. as the sum for land. The witness said that was for land for the line merely. To the COUNSEL—The 50,0001. for the stations on the loop in cluded the land. The Lincoln station would cost 15,000/., partly inclusive of land, and partly not. Doncaster station came in as a country town station ; the cost, 10,000/. The same with regard to Gainsberough and Bawtry. The cost of the bridge over the Swan Pool, at Lincoln, he had already given ; it was 1,319/. The bridge ever the Treat, at Gainsborough, would cost 10,0001. Did not know that the line from London to Selby could be made at 164 miles. To Mr. Wells—The heaviest cutting on the line was 1,112,212 cubic yards ; part of that would cost 28,3511., and part 25,0001. The estimate of 3,0001. per mile for carriage would include the carriage for coals, To Mr, DENNISON. —The station at Sheffield, on the Bantry line, would run into the existing Sheffield station, therefore it would not cost much, but he had allowed 4,0001. for that. The present station at Sheffield is quite sufficient for present purposes. The 4,0001. did not include lard, for the station would be on the line. Did not survey the Sheffield line, but had it done by an accredited agent, for whom he was responsible, but had gone over the line himself. It was surveyed by Mr. Fairbank, engineer, of Sheffield. The gradients on this line were as follows, beginning at Bawtry :-1 in 125, 1 in 173, 1 in 120, 1 in 121 , , 1 in 127. 1 in 146, 1 in 120, 1 in 120, 1 in 178, 1 in 100, 1 in 120, 1 in 122, 1 in 554, 1 in 640, 1 in 268, 1 in 397 ; that was to sal, there were 56 yards of level on the whole distance; there were two tunnels on the lino ; one was 1,930 yards, and the ettia. 1.245 yards ; the strata was principally rock. The longest tunnel was near Sheffield, and the strata consisted alternately of clay and soil, and very little water. The cost he hal estimated at 60.?. per yard fot wale'. Tun nelling was the most difficult and intricate work in engineering. Mr. DENNISON—And therefore required the greater care and minuteness before making an estimate Y—l wasn't going to add that.—(Laughter.) It required more experience than either. There were four stations on the line. To Mr. PICKERING, on behalf of Sir William Milner—Witness knows Sir William's estate. Does not know how near the line will go to Manapleton Park. It was more than 8-10ths of a mile from the house itself; cannot say for what distance; cannot say whether it was at the hack or front of the house; if the York and North Midland line should be formed, the house would be placed in the fork of the two lines; cannot say if any of the farm-houses were to be cut off The witness was re-examined by Mr. Sergeant Kixor-AKE, with a view to explain some of the answers given by him in cross, examination, in reference to the slips of embankments, gradients cost of stations, &c., but none of the answers s•: ere of any impor tance. Ile said that the cost of the first 20 miles out of London would be about 38,0001. per mile, or a gross sum of 776,607/. ; exclusive of the cost of land on the London station. Mr. DERBY—Suppositig the owners of the present station at Sheffield should not agree to allow you to cross it, have you sche duled land for a station for }ourself? The witness first said he had not, then he looked at souse documents, and said he consi dered the 4,0004. would be sufficient, with the land to be taken in the deviation. Mr. DERBY—But the present station at Sheffield occupies a great deal of room, 1 see by the map. Where have you scheduled for land for a separate station, if you are not allowed to cross the present station ? We will cross it on a level. Mr. Betts, of Southampton, railway contractor—Has had the contract for several railroads. Has estimated for the works on the London and Yorkshire, and is quite satisf►ed that the prices he has named would be sufficient to cover all expenses. The lire presented no engineering difficulty, and it could be executed in three years, if the land were had. Cross-examined by Mr.-Hum - Ann—Contracted for the Vaux_ hall and Weymouth line, and a line to Southampton; also the line from Rugby to Leicester. Part of the: Croydon line was choked up about two years ago by a slip of embankment, which was made of London clay. Could not say what contractor would under. take the whole of the London and York line. Was ready himself to uudertake the contract for the whole, or a portion, of the line. Mr. Betts, jun.,— Was willing to run the same risk as his father in contracting for the whole of this line or any part of it. Mr. John - Tuttle, land valuator—Had valued the country along the line between Peterborough and East Redford. The acreage was 711 acres, and 61 acres on the Stamford branch ; but valued the whole at 122,5011., or thirty-three years' purchase. Cross.examined—Had gone as high as Si. an act e per annum ; 255. was the minimum, and took 50 per cent, for insurance ; did not take into account any sum to be paid by the Company under peculiar circumstances. Re-examined—Had taken some land as high as 4651. per acre. Mr. George Smith, land and house valuer—Had valued the hr uses, &c., at King's.cross. Had included 59 acres altogether. Is of opinion that that ground could be purchased for 208,262/. To Mr. Elltuvanu—Did not consider where the Small Pox Hospital, which will be removed, is to be rebuilt. There were a great many occupiers of houses In the 10 acres, and about 240 houses. Could not tell by what tenure they held. There were no houses on the 49 acres. Had valued about SO acres alto gether, from 'King's -cross to Hornsey. Mr. Jarvis had valued the land on the line from Hornsey wood to Sandy, 45 miles, or 587 acres area, on the Bedford branch ; had set down their value at 97,8581. To the Committee—Had made the valuation upon a calculation of thirty-three years' purchase. The Committee then adjourned. GROUP XX. THE TAW VALE RAILWAY. The Committee met at a quarter-past two o'clock, Mr. Vernon smith in the chair. There was only one witness examined as the Bill was unopposed, and nothing of any public interest took place. It may be added that the line is only three miles in length. THE NAVY. (FR:IOM A CORRESPONDENT.) SlR,—The subject of manning the navy has recently much occupied the attention of Parliament, and the dis cussions and observations of naval men in the House have led to no results of a beneficial character ; in fact the subject has ended where it began, and is an induce ment to me, as a friend of the service, to submit through your influential columns a F.cherrle, a practical and simple scheme, for not only manning the fleet in time of peace, but also of keeping it manned and ready against any sudden emergency. Three modes of entry into the navy are proposed with corresponding methods of discharge—calculated to meet the natural habits of sailors, and at the same time guard ing against their caprices. The first should be, as is actually now the case, and which extends voluntarily from the time of joining that of paying oil—or any broken period of the service, usually about tin ee-4nd-a-half years. The second should be by a voluntary enlistment for a term, say seven years, which is on the average the time occupied in two foreign stations. These men to receive a bounty of four pounds, either in clothes or money—as may be necessary, and to be registered at the nearest dock-yard by the clerks oF the Cheque. To be permitted at any convenient period, upon testi_ mony of general good conduct, to obtain their discharge upon finding a sufficient substitute, and repaying the bounty they received. Ou the completion of one station, and the paying off of the ship in which they have served—to be discharged into the nearest flag-ship, receiving two-thirds of the pay which may be due to them, to have at least a month's leave if they wish it, and on rejoining to receive the remainder. At the end of seven years to be permitted to renew their term of service in either way, and to count all the time they may serve, whether broken or continuous, for the usual rate of pension. The third method of entry should be of boys, which can be most readily obtained, with clothes and necessa ries of the value of fifty shillings. Every boy to enter as a volunteer for the navy so long as his service may be required, and on the paying off of any ship or vessel in which he may have served, to be sent to the nearest flag-ship, and to have leave of absence in the same form and manner as stated in the second method. At the end of the first station, and on being dis charged into the flag-ship, to be carefully examined by medical men, and if physically likely to be of good service to the State, to be retained in the service ; and if otherwise, restored to their friends, or to their parishes. The boys also to be registered like men of the second method by the nearest clerk of the Cheque, and in like manner to be discharged upon their own request, and certificate of good conduct from their captains ifr com manders. Many other minor regulations might be introduced to make the inducement stronger, conceived in a spirit and latitude of great liberality, and removing most if not all the obstacles and prejudices at present in existence, making the fleet the greatest nursery of its own seamen, as well as of retaining those who have been trained in the duties and exercises of a ship of war, and which ex tend much beyond the knowledge of sailors brought up in the m.rchant service, and who have one sirnng feel ing against the naval service, from the prevalence of the soldier-like instruction now in practice, and in sonic vessels of war carried out to a considerable extent. In the hope that these suggestions may meet the at ;ention of those who have power to improve or adopt ;hem for the benefit of the fleet and of the country, I remain, Sir, your obedient servant, Y. Z. STATE OF TRADE. FOREIGN WOOL TRA Da, LEEDS, MAY 30.—We hare no change to notice in this branch of trade since our last report. Sales continue steady, and prices firm. ENGLISH WOOL MARKET, LEEDS, MAY 30.—Sales of low combing wools are quiet; there is a steady demand for the finer qualities, prices of which are firm. Clothing sorts of middle qualities are in good demand, and go off r eadily at late prices. YORK WOOL MARKET, MAY 29.—Our first market for the present season commenced this day ; very little wool was shown, owing no doubt to the continuous cold weather having retarded the operation of clipping, What was sold realised 13s. 6d. to 14s. per stone. LiiEns.—Our cloth markets have been very dull at both halls this week : goods of low qualities have been very dull of sale, and the stocks on hand are on the increase ; prices, however, con tinue firm; for goods of fine and middl e qua li t i es t h ere cont i nues a pretty steady demand : there has also been an inquiry alter fancy cloakings in new styles, but on the whole the markets have been below an average. The very cold weather we have had of late has checked the demand for spring goods. Very few buyers have been in the town, business has therefore been dull in the warehouses. LEICESTER.—There has not been much doing in the ware houses for the home demand, being between the seasons. A fair shipping trade has been done, and moeerate orders are now giving out by the Americans for the fall demand. Worsted yarns remain steady, and are more in request. Wools are quiet and firm.—Leicester Journal. BRADFORD MARKET, THURSDAY.—The demand for Wool continues languid, but the prices are firm. There isqinore in quiry for Yarn, and an increased disposition to buy, but the prices are so extremely low, that the spinners find it impera tively necessary to decline orders, at the late ruinous prices. In Orleans, Coburgs, and Merinoes, there is a steady improve ment in the demand, and the stocks gradually reducing, which tends to give a degree of confidence to both buyer and seller that things have seen their lowest point. TRADE OF MANCHESTER, THURSDAY EVENING.--We have had throughout the week, a steady and good demand for most kinds of cloth, and if prices cannot be quoted higher, they must be noted at least firm and even buoyant, and with the staple at present prices, nri improvement may be confidently anticipated. The dyers are getting busy again.— Spinners are going on satisfactorily at rather higher rates, and with a brisk demand. His Excellency Count de St. Aulaire, the French Ambassador, will this day proceed to Woolwich, in erder to re ceive their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess de Nemours, who are expected to disembark at the Royal Dockyard, from Bou. logne, to visit her Majesty and his Royal Higness Prince Albert. The Royal Duke and Luchess will, during their sojourn in this country, reside at Buckingham Palace. _ Ti H; LATE FILM AT RACGETT'S HOTEL. — During Saturday and Sunday a crowd as numerous as on any of the pre. vious days continues congregated in Dover-street, anxious to as. certain if any other bodies were discovered. The search of the ruins was proceeded with during Saturday, but nothing of conse. quence was found, the only articles of value discovered being two gold watches, the owners of which have not yet been ascertained, The search, in consequence of the seizure put in by Mr. Roberts, the original landlord, to whom large arrears of rent are owing, was to have ceased at six o'clock on Saturday evening, but it is under stood that an arrangement has been entered into between the par ties, under which the search will be continued until the whole of the ruins have been examined. In consequence of the doubt ex isting as to whether the body found on Tuesday, or that discovered on Friday, was the body of Mrs. Round, it was determined by the relatives of that lamented lady that both bodies should be buried in the family vault, but that course is now no longer necessary, since, by a post mortem examination, it has been ascertained that one has been a mother and the other has not. The identification is there fore clear. On Saturday afternoon the fragments of several jewels were found in the ruins. Among them were two earrings, which Lord Huntingdon identified as belonging to his lady. There was also a gold diamond ring, which is supposed to have been the pro. perty of Mrs. Round, and a brooch, which it is understood she in. tended to have worn at the Queen's drawing-room on the following day. IMPERIAL P AMEN - T • • LIOUSE OF LORDS, Jane 2. The Loan CHANCELLOR took his scat on the Woolsack al Five lock, TII E M A YNOO I H GRANT. from The Earl of ti A R.EWOOD presented 160 peliti °l " e et h various pl a ce s i n E ng l an d an d Ir e land against the .11layne Blil. ho r O f Petitions to a similar effect were presented by the S i P I of D Cashel, by Lard Denman an d Lord Brougham ; b y the E a a eh e , Charleville, from Leeds, P en rith, Antrim, Bally castle, Armagh. and a number ot other places. The Duke of RICHMOND prese nted a petition General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, signed by the Moderator, with the seal of the Assembly attached , agg:nr:, was proposed grant. The petitioners considered the me l a culate d in opposition to the spirit of the Reforination, and ea resented directly to encourage Popery. His Grace also pl . ' __ ,l of petitions from the presbyters of the Free Church, SY" e d , Kincardine, Mr. O'Neill, and the Dissenters of Cornwa against the Bill. • • against The Earl ot FALMOUTH presented eleven petitions from thee the , grant. The Bishop o f EXETER p res ented a number of with a similar prayer.etition, p AIR. O'DRISCLL. The LORD CHANCELLOR stat O ed that in ceirequenge ° what had transpired in that House, eight days ago c t o r n e = ee ih e g e e e Mr. O'Driscoll inquiries had been made, and in of that gentleman's recent proceedings, and also in consee:: ' The of som e former misconduct in the Rolls Court of Irelarte, _,,,, Lord Chancellor ( Sir E. Sugden) had considered it his null to dismiss him from the Commission of the Peace. The Mes s eng er o f th e H ouse o f Commons then brollg o h l ,t, tae e several Bills, w hi c h were or d ere d to be laid on the table House. • s from The Bishop of WINCHESTER presen ted petitions ainst St. John's, in the Isle of Wight, and several other places , ag the grant to Maynooth. r ° f The Duke of NEWCASTLE presen ted a great nu mbe r petitions aeaint te geet to Aanoth. The n Bishep s 1 N of OR r WiCH i I resented a great nu m,elow: petitions to the same effect, but he read the names in u tune that we could not ca t c h one o f them. D a vid's , The Bishops of Londo n and Durham, and Lord Kenton Earls Fitzwilliarn and lam presented pc+ itions ag a i ns t the grant to Maynoothiresiera 'l he Earl of ELDON presented p et itions from th e _ war congregations of Lincoln's Inn-fields and swore.' other P against the grant to Maynooth. Worcester , St. yaw SMALL DEBTS BILL. , Dill. Lord BROUGHAM mo v e d th e second reading of 4 ' 1 " .. MAYNOOTII GRANT. 1 ~ t ots The Duke of WELLINGTON then roe and said was his duty to re rest the attention of their Lordship: 10d important subject—to explain the principles and the n 9 1 ebet it the provisions of the Bill which he wet" i t tat ° to their Lordships, and entreat them to carry t io execution—namely the maintenance of that in s l sh Istfr That institution was founded fifty years ago by the Iri f eet liament, and that Bill contained a recital of the pro vis a itTs t o edt be Acts by which it was originally f oun d e d. It was ree l c ould found, in the year 1800, and subsequently in 180`'' te at Ole not be denied—and he did not sta n d there to deny , he fee' Acts were inconsistent with the code of laws by which .`,. $0 although this inconsistency did exist with regard formation was established in te at country and in Reis; co ot' merit of these laws, he considered that he should these vs tot ode to show that, as respected religious rinciples, these had not been complained of since P the time when er i s laws had been first enacted, fifty years I° tel 1800 or in 1808, to the present moment° , Ilse - t clearly to understand the principle on which thl affairs g' before, °seer founded he should call their attention to the state of ~ (e at' the Reformation. The necessity for this institution:vele es ti; sioned by the failure of the means for the spread gl en FiSgep blished reformed religion. Th e l aws which had r be froo t o he fo , then had been found altogether incompetent , period he had referred to rebelli o n had succeeded t,.° reeellio ropertil forfeiture .of property had succeeded to forfeiture orfefeper; until this country had become, so to speak, the centl:sessfon w tions of foreign and civil war, in contest for th e P ° d to its own— f i e Wi we- ion The Duke of NEWCASTLE rose to order. his eisca"e o e ' ask a preliminary question before entering ill' °t te 'sla ncj —.whether the Noble Duke ha i l received her Mai es ' Iv Lord BROUGHAM said that this was a s eed for the introduction af this measure der• m os , to or 0 proceeding. The speech of the Noble Duke wa s Ited b i It was an interruption which ought not to be tolef ieo .) f t ee --- House.( Hear, hear, and cheers, and great elle fir- c tieg ° LAO The Duke of NEWCASTLE thought then a v e from Crown was necessary.--( Cries of " Order, ord e ' w eer sides of the Tleuse, in the midst of which) ,i i at b e . the! Lord BROUGHAM again rose, and said ne OP to would sit in that House and allow any man to u e '4,,ue, an f t ee • had a perfect and undoubted right to open, t 1 he e the close, any discussion upon any measure. The es ober ~c i . Crown was required lit one case only, and tha t sc , e onac ern o se revenues or patrimonial interests of the Crown wers'e here ' t he The Dukes of WELLINGTON and NeweesTteries for tegetlier, but there being unanimous and lo ud e ither former, the Duke of Newcastle gave way. It wa s 'Ol e The Duke of WELLINGTON continued in the '. 00 ; from his own infirmity, or a want of elearn e " t ee en esti tiell• Duke who interrupted him, that he had not heard ,esee ree_ es , Afte r a / i prol iertl i ' oe otherwise lie should, without the'slightest hesitation " had ° %,. 0 policy hfon,,:il,ci, interruption, o e ve t , eh t al h iri e i i s rshahLipeloartrdhlsiahatmi would (Loud ic e wished, l7 .9r d sce i . r Ney r sa d s e; f l e c a ; g 3. 1, i, iinoi o n tt e p t : :i l l of successive wars, rebellions, and forfeiture () the posse ss 0. system had been carried on in that country a fer mee t 211 P e : 0 4 of the Crown—that repealed by Act of r 1. ", a, ... s e yeig°, o , the protection of the reformed religion, as codes, and enacted others for the support of t'l.,. e d i n to l ien intro- - t ile. land by the code of laws adverted to. F 'ri c h period the see ,. of that code till the year 1795 (during watch execution in ee;„ formation could not be carried into extensive; the service °fele, land) there never were wanted ecclesiastic' ° try whether natrlil; Roman Catholic mission in that country' s emifla t 0 0, of the British dominions or advocated in Catholic coun -1 Jo The forces of the Republic spread into the ani Italy. a beyond theb athesnk of the Rhine, into GermanY, moldablisbuie the course Revolution, the religious est , France were put down. But still he believed thS so tion 4 have been possible to have found means for .the c st ole , - a the Continent. But the Ministers of the day, Irish Roman Catholic ecclesiastics in the Catholic C° 0 50 4° inttrhor into an d til t to lace they tionsuited in Ireland, did not think it e xpelli en f i e enceee'; the education of so considerable a body to foreign j n .. o to w t ( Hear,Besides, in the fifteen years P e %eliel e ff period to which he referred, the power of the Irio l "e, e tsl 10 had been increased, and that body had become an axy roe„,, independent Parliament. Considering, also, that te e Tare power had been introduced into the existence of that, ter ment by the repeal of the Acts to which he had sidering how much the power of the native pepu lat h ia sides d os augmented, the Government of that day, on b et . t h a t i 4 t ,ip% water, in England as well as in Ireland, decideet_osieen e, their duty to endeavour to discover the means of e n irel, native education for the Roman Catholic ecclesiasticnelsuot_,, rather than to leave them any longer to the Orel% _ e e ' ar l 7 ,7 l , which they might have continued to receive after th e ietea e „ They, therefore, made the arrangement which wa s Was su e. this Bill, being the Act of 1795. That arranger gerept Rein, j grated by two successive Lords Lieutenant, of , t he fr, oo ral political opinions—the late Earl Fitzwillians an' o f ta ut , qeis of Camden.—(Hear, hear.) The c haraele o r t to sw igs inen whom he would now name, would be staCt e ea tal t° lo o this House that they could mean nothing doul.h o se av dr religious establishment of this country. t he into( were the late Lord Chief Justice Fitzgibbo n ' L od iir. adverntebosibe; bishop of Cashel, the Earl of Shannon, the to p, t ee Justice of the Common Pleas, Chief Baron 1 e ieje tel °., tlO Speaker Foster, Mr. Woul le, afterwards Chief u P liere j i ore Queen's Bench, and Lord Kilwarden, who was In T he O s r e. streets of Dublin in the insurrection of 1803. table s t ate , was then sent to England to that highly respec ele of ~10 epected nobleman the Duke of Portland, Secreee ti ;f s , heft , ' 0 ,1 and he consulted with the Archbishop of Canter ° l2os l e 01; e r presented it to his Sovereign, Geo. 111., with w hos e was g. I t° it was returned to Ireland. So that there nev e _ jes t N u fbe sure proposed that offered so much security afehesee)proter the established religion of this co untry.—(H ea li t i eveli dere' Bill went back with the approbation of an eac_ d ther ei , tant Government, with Mr. Pitt at its head , ' o n enee e t° o o. they could net recommend any measure that pey .his cou tho e daneer the religious establishments or opinions 0 1 '" 0 m ake use h il —( Hear, hear.) He had thought it necessarer 1., be es s oot observations before going into the perceived by the petitions presented to the 11 0 °,,!, 'was° d s o• was passing in pultlic, that the opposition to the meat he,, psi owing to the fear entertained that the m easure w; h i e e P re y. , gercus to the Established Church, a fe eh , ng s e ar, hilettri happy to say was quite illusory—(Cries of `,.., cee -e0 o f 0_ and, therefore, they might pass it with conna e P iera tion er t ee A measure to this effect was taken into the cool s° t in 0 0 Irish Parliament before the Union. It was t a jo i o n, a% 00 'd of the so ul 10 consideration of that House at the perm e ~ to , taken account of in the articles of the Union•. s h ow this to their Lordship. the 7th article, which would et t tra- - I,OIL. the case. The Noble Duke then read an tales t , l ir_, article, to the effect that a sum of money no , be forf e eow general questioe ,10dby,e 0 should be applied for the purposes of agrieeletiseeleoge97, which had been granted for a period of six. yue,a,..rrsal aseob je tr ,_ , facturing improvements, and for religious ande United I.`„, e i o in such a manner as the Parliament of th , lf till should direst. Now at that time not a worn ~e n 0i0 . .,, sod the measure. Subsequently, in 1808, two countries was completed, the subjeet s v t :, a „to Tot Prier considerable difference of opinion was manife . sells ettan. of the grant, but not a word was said abo ut j a b o ut ° wee r ", ciples being in danger—not a wor d only nothing to the i eligious establishment. r in g , by t se lt f° was to the amount of the gran:l'4 o les. sass ant whatever about the insecurity of religious Pni u ' r eple, e o reo°,/ Duke of Wellington) said that religious T ee, at ter es ejoe, o l ", there, it was sate ever since, and it wa' g if t he s!, l .. t tog l i d moment.—.( Hear, hear. ) He would now el . , ot._ said after,tedise!sse7ooo.o! s ew ' Th er ` cel l ' their Lordships to the condition of they:. ,_,. ~,e 04 the education- of the Roman Catholic pries n e l' i O a u re for 'f a l s e be no doubt but that some means were nee i. v leber i r it set: cation of Roman Catholic priests of 1r e 1a . 1 ,! 1 4, i n l e,so oer a at the period of the Union was 3,00(?, 0 ":',: 5e e to e °' 01 0 ,4 8,261,000, and now it had no doubt dere 0 o ..f i er; Of this number about 7-Bths were constee sil o by ~ 0 1 ,1 0 Catholics. There could be no doubt sere:Toro' at! Cel re 7 g i ofor larger proportion of the people of Ireland wer e e requ ire s . e d ishe d 0 1. —( Hear, hear,) This large populatr e ~ not fur abrfhet teachers, and these, if Pr ovision ".... eir ed uc , a " to logy their education at home, must receive tilt True, the country th ug se as! na l it was in 1795, but, notwithstand world, Ilecuseettoioo were at peace now with the wholbeii4h e , sue- ~,,t port le his belief, still desirable to este 2., ente of lu e ' ae eesl u t i 'd arrangement in Ireland, that the inhtaLleunde r e nle 100 of her Majesty's dominions should not educa te ' . f Ms 0- ht of of sending their ministers abroad to was in a different the ev!,"„ g toOhnv call the attention of their Lordships to rov , " l- ' le. " ... of P . h peoP o ae two years to illustrate the importanceof the Iris _ ew e 0 .0 e education for the theological teachers of purpose manioc and f . ins the period referred to, great 1 fora the pu rpose ; s e Ire , l b n es e count of the large meetings heldthis eou ntrY „ of `_ ken repeal of the Union existing between _ a _ e ro de u ...d 0 They were aware of the exciting ll a r_l e e then l o , well e ri i eing meetings, and that foreipers had was ."7,, was ale ~,pat .1' to . insgi ,tuatmoi h io prominent part in the proceedifno7seig l' n eountries,;(agref error that meetings had been held in . 0, the union , each n.ooe t with the proceedings for are I 1 offering r i or Peiabutions. I•Th d tiie edae g e ll esrg e support them by money contr _ 0 e • won i to- o f secclesiasticsates'eoulidncountries wits_ _ d re fere e t' -0 the Government of any of those 4 , w elch h e , r ' 4 tooig P a l r! Ord' .." ,u 0 . e yo- , encouragement to the proceedings t h foreigne i r L °cr. countries' the persons d the'', ef log favour towards ,he wilted, , ,i t o r, manifesting any bi n g, but , • Le d, by , g e tt . them. Ile believed no such t ev il tha t ell' broad . ' \ 0 all ships against the possibility ° i f s tobe educeted a _, roac t 1 _ e eo , the ecclesiastics of this countle ,tate of ro ligion o.h a t "by thel ao ch hear.) In adverting to the ducation was souse, he 511/ e%bi foreign countries, in which e nd er the le etlierlanoirdaegerags 00 clesiastics, in France, ItalY e a . n the scleig nS an a nd it 11 f the difficulty to be apprehended j those countries.,teachit!g o f 0 bited by religious systems., in for the theologica_l eout orle 6 e ire sde r usinlitPrsiesdir We di-d noee desirable that ecclesiastr be e mliseeted in t s h t o o se e e t eaee,, e t e peole of Ireland shoulddditional division tu_ed el'ito, to bring back wife theme therefore I repo f e r th e rite existed. They (the Government) tableheti at . home - reiona . 0 ter re' l e s ioe ' institution should be e admi t° • . i erou g o tie° proper . eessary to - t b o llo ,i , resit 0 ~,, tion of the ecclesiastics ne • t; ~ Boman c a de e,ord'" re s it w to her Majesty's subjects of Jett before s ac 'tur _ so Ireland. In bringing the s o. .11 the it e notbin,, 1 i. he had shown there was THE SUN, LONDON, ESDA Y MORNING, JUNE 3, 1845. . et tiR