The Sun. — London, England, 1821-04-17 00:00:00

present Bill had been well considered in the other House. Perhaps no measure had ever been more carefully discussed. The Bill went to ad mit Catholics into the two Houses of Parliament, but doing this it granted nothing which they had not before enjoyed. The Constitution, when this was done, would still be a provident Constitution. The. Bill went but to remove penalties which had been imposed under particular circumstances, and to restore the - Catholic to that which had formerly been his birthright; .in common with every other:-subject: Proper precautions were Ashen forepeexerving the Crowte inethe hands of larProfestart King, and ~ fore protecting .all - the nights aiisile.:.dinitieee of the Protestant Church. :t - was trueedf thisaßillepassed, might ia-veaCa.'tholic- , Mitlisters, but were they not to Aisne thutzonfidence irx a Protestant Prince which *could give-thorn assurance that he would know how. to,:defendihimaelfand the nation against any Ifiseknerinflnence:on the part of Catholic Counsel ,..:by :calling . to. his aid Protestant adyisers. 4ir: this Bill, Catholics were to be admitted to Itise ..henciw: After it was once determined to atiltnit ißbmara . Catholics to the bar, he was :settonished that it should ever have been. thought - svise to exclude them from the bench. He 'wondered how any one could have thought iteviine, after doing so .much, to say " thus ittr shalt. thou go, and no further." Every ii.ornan ; Catholic admitted to the bar - must ftel:hirnself insulted every morning when he got tip, an.d.every night when he went to bed, by h. exclusion. • The effect of this was likely cos it appeared to him) to create the disaffection ;',Limputed. The present Bill relieved the Ca 4alics in.several important particulars. It suf feted-them no longer to. be branded on account caf.lheir.religion, and it moderated the oath of supremacy so: that it could be taken by them as vseras by any other class of subjects. Consider ieg the Catholics to have proved themselves trust 'w.orthy"by the manner in which they had exer cised the elective franchise which had been con cealed _to their now for eight and twenty years, below no necessity for imposing on them any feeels oaths, while affording them that relief which this measure was intended to give, He, therefore, could not see that the second Bill azhiCh : had been brought into the House, and "Lich was incorporated with the first in that which was now before their Lordships, was at all desirable. .The second Bill afforded him no :fa ciiity.f6r agreeing to the first, and was so far fsernaimproving it, that he should expect a Ca tholic-to have the strongest objection , to it, and telete.much disposed to say, 44 Take baCk your Bill of :Securities; to escape that ii am content to give Up the proffered benefits which they are in- Waded to accompany." • The Bill' of Securities sent to insult the Catholic Clergy, by telling them,:if .the law could speak intelligible. lan gnage, that the 'Catholic laity were -denied the privileges enjoyed by their fellow subjects, in consemience of the disaffection' of. floe body of their Clergy: . It was because he kneW them to b. _the very re v erse of what they had been re preseoted te:he„ that he could not agree in pass ing this measure, for the relief of the RoMan Catholits generally, to impose any new shackles on account of the Clergy. The securities which this - Bill required, he thought it must be felt, even by those who proposed them, . were not wanted.. He regarded them but as a tub thrown out-lathe whale--as intended merely to screen those- wholavoured thii Bill from the intolerance of others who were opposed to it, and to appease the ignorant clamours of those 'who would not listen to:reason. lie would not pay their Lord sh'epsao-bad.a.complirnent as to suppose that they would consider them necessary to the measure. They were. calculated to give offence to the Ca thelics, without.affording any additional security. to:the. Protestants; .and without gaining any ob ject. for,the state, they cast an *unjust stigma on a very ineritorions-body of men". He would new 'pro ceed' to offer a few remarks, which perhaps their Lordships might think would be as, well reserved for chic. Committee,. but which he thought it de sirable teeexpress now, that his• sentiment§ on the 1111..anight .at once be knosvn. In its present sleep, ise- could - not advo - cate . the measure as . a whole._ lie should .feel himself unworthy of a seat in that House,•if could give - his entire ap probation to a:Bill - so constructed-. He 'Could not dce : this.a and he would now :proceed to state the modifications of the. olinoxious parts which he_ thought. ought to take !place, and .the Tee rnov4l. of . which. would make the measure .pa late Ale to the. Catholics, ..:without abandoning anyfosectirity that the - .Protestants ought to - . re galia - tea.. In the first plaCee he' would remark this Bill'imkaased *a compuls!nry oath on the Catholic argye s :which. they. must take,. or incur the peasthies of misdemeandur:. lie did not like the paiseci.ple! of.a compulsory oath. The only parallel e;syt; isj whichean -oath had been • forced on the qlergy, .occurred France - at th'eabegin nino' of Abe. Revolution, when every . Clergy.; rnanowaa obliged. -to _take an oath under pain of depoetatioo.,..This was the ordp similar case that Kati v.come to his knowledge,and this,. thank God.. hadenc.cureed, under no Tegular Government; It. was 'only Py.:one•of the revolutionary Adminis: trations (brit, infStnonsecsath had been .enforced -; aadhe trustedethat such a measure WoUld never reassive the sanction of- this GovernmefiL • The oath; whiChi in the present . instance, it was tent Jed to impose ow the Catholic Clergy, he would. adirrit e contained nothing ain its matter to which any..hou6st man could' Object. :He merely object ed'to it that it: was compulsory and unnecessary to Work:the machinery of- the Bill, which - : was fttllyeend: Satisfactorily , provided for by -other parts of themseakuree After the CathOlic. Clergy had•teen. made An swear that they would' not sanction the appointrirent" of any but loyal per -swage:to be their, BishOps of their Deans,:i refe-: recce was made to :another party. He therefore- t eusted that that oath might begot rid - bfaltogea thera.% It was proposed tsi establish a COMMiSgiCitl under this each. country. Without this, he *thoUglii:there - ;was no reason to fear that im proper, nominations should fake place ; but that everything in that respect ,WOuld go on as it hid done for the last sixty 'years. Under this Bill, if-asi)rSori proposed as a Dean should be unfor tunate eoOngla ;to b."i:ejected a hiot • • jected, but he was insulted ; and if he might use the expression, even posted, as his name was to be inserted in the Rolls of Chancery—as a black sheep, or as person phteed in the pillory —there to remain from g ene r ation to generation, as one known to be disaffected 'to the Govern ment. Instead of this, he would propose that the names should be inserted in the minutes of the Board to be 'established. At present it was pro posed that all documents " should pass from the Catholic Clergy to that Bo ard, including confes sions. These could not be submitted to any Ec clesiastical Commission without a direct violation of the duty of the Clergyman, — who was not al lowed to communicate any thing taken in confes sion to anyone, except the head of the Church, where it became necessary to apply to him on a question of conscience. He hoped this provision would be given up, and that an oath that the con fessions taken related but to private matters would be deemed sufficient. Amendments to this effect 'he intended to move in the Committee. Wishing, twmake this great measure as perfect as possible, he objected to its being made to hold any thing in ter rorenz over those to whom it did not ;'apply in the shape of penalty.. He did not object to the establishment of a Board through which all regular Catholic instruments should pass. This was a measure which might net be necessary, but it was one that the House had a right to impose if it pleased. He should be glad if the Catholic could give any thingin return for the liberality with which he might be treated.—z / He should be sorry if the Bill passed. without their being able to offer any equivalent for what' they Were to receive under it. He should hot object to the veto being given, but he was sorry to say the Roman Catholics were against this, and therefore he could say nothing on the subject. He was, however, convinced that no improper nomination would take place, and with this im pression, regretting that he had troubled their Lordships at such length, and thanking them for the patient hearing they had given to what he had had the honour to address to them, he moved —" That the Bill should now be read a "second time." Several Peers rose to address the House. The Lord Chancellor fixed on The Earl of MANSFIELD, who said that it was his intention to express, as concisely as his habits permitted, his opinion on the Bill before their Lordships, which had been formed on mature re flection, and which a pretty long residence in Catholic countries had tended to confirm. The Bill before them had two_ parts, the .one to render all offices open to the Catholics., the se cond to regulate their intercourse with the See of Rome. To the second part many of the Catho lics had themselves objected, His objection, however, was to the first part, to the principle of removing the Disabilities from the Catholics.— (Hear !)—The Catholics set no bounds to their expectations; for if any one supposed the Ca- tholics of Ireland would be satisfied without ad mission into all the offices of the State, without seeing their Clergymen admitted into benefices, the' principle at least acknowledged that those who had forfeited their estates on account of their attachment to their religion were unjustly deprived. However inordinate his presumption might be in opposing himself to many great names on this question, he (Lord M.) thought that the person who co .'d come to such a conclusion, had sliewn little foresight as to the general prin ciples of the struggles of parties, or little attention to the Catholic Clergy in particular.—(Hear, hear 1)—It was hinted by some, that as the Pres byterian was the established religion of Scotland, so the Catholic might be the established religion of Ireland, leaving the Protestants merely tole rated. Great as, his objections would be to such a change, he should think it far safer to legislate in this way, than by gradual concession to give them the political power by which this end might be attained.—(Hear, hear!)—By our Constitu tion, the Catholics were excluded from office, and Protestantism was so interwoven with it that it appeared to him impossible to alter it without changing its essence. It mi;ht be assumed that there had been a necessity for the exclusion of the Catholics. If that necessity no longer ex- . isted, it must either have been from an altera- ion in the Catholics themselves ) or in their re _ _ ligion. Their religion was declared unchangea ble. As to the Catholics themselves, would it be said, " you were formerly inconsiderable in your numbers in relation to the whole empire, yet• we dreaded you for the foreign influence with which you were connected; , yet, now, we find that you are more numerous, and we doubt not that your numbers will insure your moderation, an'd we open the Constitution to you with some reservations, designed, really, only to lull unthinking Pro testants." The history and conduct of the Church of Rome deserved some consideration. The desire of power and dominion in that Church was unchangeable and remained undiminished.. For . . thatcbfect the Church could, on proper occasions, make important concessions—it could even adopt Pagan ceremonies. It was known that the bacy - of its Priests was a matter of disciplincr; not of faith—it was a matter of disciplineestublished f6f the .purpose of obtaining supremacy.. The power-of the Pope in this country was put.down' at the tithe of the. Reformation ' • but it continued in full vigour in Spain, in the Netherlands, and in • other countries; the consequence was th a t no concessions were made—no liberal spirit cherished . ;—no, the worst abuses .were confirmed ; the Church denouncedyen-geance against all who should• oppose it. He believed; indeed, that the Church' of Roma would but rarely exercise poWer as it did in' the massacre of St. BartholoMew ; but when did it condemn that massacre ? When did 'it condemn the'revocation of the Edict of Nantz ? He was willing to admit the' friendly disposition of the present Pope. He was Willing to admit that from the power-of the Pope at this day there•wasno great cause of alarm; but what security had this country , that the successors of his Holiness would Cherish a 'similar disposition ? The Church of Rome- acknowledged the power of the• Pope—every. good Catholic ; was subject to that controul—the spirit which .animated the whole of. their institutions was 'a • spirit direCte'd not merelyto the estaDliArnent : of spiritual povier; tensporg - #scpritiappt.. The Priesthood' knew Well hOw to employ the means of effecting those objects—they ivatche.d over the approach ing hour of dissolution, and •prevailed on the ex piring penitent to enrich their order by large do nations—their Mysteries, their cerefnonies, and their sacrifices, alt tended to one object—the en largement of their power. The state, cit . the Roman Catholic Chtirth in France afforded a strong instance of this. At the Revolution the property of the church was sequestrated—the Priests were obliged to fly for refuge and protec tion to foreign countries ; so great, indeed, was the contempt in which the religion was held in France, that even Napoleon, with all his popri larity and power, was not able to get that religion respected, even when he established it by law. On the return of Louis the 18th, the Clergy in creased their-pretensions and their activity. The consequence was, that the religion had lately made an astonishing progress. So much so, that in some places they claimed and obtained the res titution of Church property, even from persons to whose possession it came by descent or by pur chase. In other parts of France,the Clergy in forced the payment of tithes. In stating these facts his object was to shew that the Roman Catholic reli;- gion aimed at nothing less than absolute power— no matter what caution might be used—no matter what opposing force might be employed. When that force was once removed, the spirit of inno vation peculiar to that religion, was sure to be ex erted with increased energy, and spread over a greater space. He recollected having had a con versat'on on a former occasion with a foreigner of distinction, who said to him, that as - a zealous Catholic he regretted the failure of the measure, bat so well did he know the character of the Ro man Catholic Church, its unabated desire . of poWer in Civil Government, that if he were a Member of the British Parliament he would have resisted it. The Noble Earl hare entered intoa recital of the civil privileges which the - Bill be fore the House purported to . grant to the Ca. tholics. The Bill held that the Sovereign should be a Protestant, but it permitted his Ministers to be Catholics. To him it appeared very plain, that if the religion of the one or the other was to be dispensed iVith, the religion of the Sovereign should give way. The.Bill, - therefore, abandoned the :greatest security and -.obtained the lesser.-:-- The Catholics, by the Bill, were prevented from sitting as Judges' in Ecclesiastical Courts,,but the Bill did not prevent Catholics from interfering, in directly at least,with the Protestant Church. There was no provision in the Bill to prevent a Catholic from being a Preceptor to the Heir Apparent— thz.re was no security that a Catholic Preceptor, countenanced by a Catholic Minister, might not pervert the religious and political principles of his pupil. The 'Bill prevented Catholics from holding the place of Lord Lieutenant of Ire land ; but the Secretary for Ireland might be a Catholic—the Secretary, in whose hands the efficient power of the Administration lay—every suggestion, - every representation to the Lord Lieutenant was made by . his confidential - adviser, and that adviser might be a Catholic. He could not but lament the difference of opinion which existed on this important ,subject in hiS. Majesty's Councils. Some men might praise that difference of opinion ; he, on the contrary, felt' that on great questions of State a unity of senti ment gave vigour' to public councils, ‘vhil,st the want of it detracted from the merit, and para lysed the energies of those who presided 'over them. But it was said, that the 'influence of Catholics would not be considerable ; he con tended that their would have power in the - other House' of Parliament, while in that House; in addition to the Catholic. Peers, who would im mediately come in,' a.number of Catholic Peers might be created by a Catholic Minister. The Catholic party would have considerable 'power ; and any party acting in Parliament with energy and perseverance must ultimately obtain success. In such a state of things, what, he would ask, would prevent the Catholics from uniting with the Dissenters to oppose the Church. Establish ment, to which both parties were equally hostile? There was one argument - which, if true, would, be certainly calculated to make a strong impres . sion in favour of the was that the rhea- - sure would tend to conciliate the people of Ire land. TO attain that object there was scarcely any sacrifice that he would consider toe great-- but when people.talked of conciliating :Ireland; they merely looked to a part of the peeple , of 'that country--=they did not take into considera-; tion the- Protestants of Ireland: There were in deed amongst the Protestants many who, in the generosity of-their feelings, overlooked the -dan gers of granting political power to their Catholic countrymen. , To the recollection of those gene rous but mistaken men, hemould fecal the Acts of the Catholic - Parliament' and 'Clergy in the yearl6B9: They repealed the Act of Settlement —they seized on, the . revenues Of the Protestant Church—Alley .claimed,tithes-- - -and though King James, who affected to protect the Protestant Church, and- ordered a restoration of the pro :perty, the Priests set his order at defiance, and declared that - the King had no contron! over mat ters-concerning the' Church - . The Noble Lord next observed, that-of the system of exclusion so long • established, the country had no cause to complain. Under that system the country ob tained great military renown—great commercal prosperity, arid made a splendid .progress in al- 1 most every useful science: The if; Onstitution was admitted even by Protestants to be admi rabic. -Under its venerable sanction, :the rightsl of the subject were protected—the power of the Monarch restrained—the good of all consulted and upheld. With that Constitution stood inse parably connected the Protestant -Church—that Church which stood pre-eminent for its rare and exalted qualities. The Catholic religion had a predilection for arbitrary power. The Presby terian leant towards democracy—but the PrO testant religion, worthy of the people who hap pily acknowledged its sway, taught the maxims of charity, justice, rational liberty, order, mo- - deration.—(Cheers.)--That glorious fabric over which their ancestors watched with a pious care, was now menaced with' danger, it was openly assailed by its avowed enemies, and by the secret but more dangerous arts of others. Should its natural protectors withdtaW their assistance from it,. it would sink for ever, and it its ruins Would be buried the property, the knowledge, the li berty, the distinguishing virtues of this country. The Bishop of LONDON said, that after the elo quent speech which had been just pronounced, he rose under peculiar disadvantages; those disadvan tages were increased- by the speech of the .Noble Earl (Dortoughmors k ), whose add ress as remarka ble for temper and ability,- On former occasions he contented himself with giving a silent vote on this question ; he would now beg to state the reasons, why he was under the painful necessity of opposing the present Bill. He objected both to the principle and to the form of the measure. He disclaimed every illiberal feeling.' His oppo sition did not originate , in intolerance. He was disposed to gra n t t o M en of every religious per suasion, wlnAe doctrines were not . repugnant to morality,decency, and good order, every privilege that could be granted with safety.—To the Ca tholics he was willing to grant every blessing the unfettered enjoyment of their property—the protection from injury—and the fair administra tion of equal laws. If he resisted their claim for political power, it was because he was apprehen sive that the exercise of that power by them would be dangerous to the Protestant Establishment. In candour and in justice he was bound to admit the respectability and loyalty of the Catholics of Great . Britain for more than a centurypast. If the Catholics of Ireland had not been equally correct, great al lowances were to be made for them. He . was con vinced that no act of lenity or of wisdom that ! the Government could accomplish, much less the • measure under consideration, would be an immediate remedy for the evils which pressed upon the country. The Catholic religion (how ever respectable might be the conduct of many of the Catholics) required implicit submission to its laws=-it asserted domination, exclusive of all concurrence—it recognised no authority but its own, and assumed unlimited dominion over the Minds and consciences of men. Every individual Who acknowledged the authority of the Roman Catholic Church; was hound to uphold its power --to that high obligation every other should give way ; and it followed as a Matter of course, that no oath, however soled - in—:no allegation, however sacred, could be made by a Catholic, without an important reservation on his part in favour of the rights of his Church. He did not state this for the pUrPose of calumniating the Catholics or of insinuating that they disregarded the of an oath. The Protestants simply held their duty to God as above all (Akers; the Catholics held their duty to God and their duty to the Church; their oath was, therefore, to be estimated with re, ference to this reservation-'-a reservation, no doubt, which they conscientiously made. The abuse of this principle, so long and so unhappily held, pro ditced much sophistry in argument, and bad faith in practice; from it he drew one simple conclusion, that. no Catholic felt himself bound to observe any engagement at all at variance with the high and primary duty which he owed-to the Church. That consideration, he confessed, weighed much with him ; it had great .weight with the leading characters of the Revolution ; they, liberal and.enlightened as, they were, saw no security for the Church but in making Abe. Government essentially Protestant, and in.ex eluding the Catholics from places of. trnst, of power, and .authority. The necessity, of that ex clusion was.still acknowledged in tbe. ease of.the . King . ; but if the Sovereign was to be driven, from his Throne for . 'professing the Roman Catholic religion, he did not see why a subject should complain of political, exclusion. The hill: also excluded Catholics from the offices of Lord Chan cellor 'and Lord Lieutenant offireland. On what principle, then, did, it allow them to be Privy Councillors, Members of Parliament, and Gover nors-of Colonies ? In the Colonies, remote from. domestic controul, the religion of the State stood in need of all the assistanceoflaw • —it Would stand in need of the countenance of a fostering and a . friendly .G overnmen t. Did th e y suppose th a t from a Catholic Governor the Protestant religion would receive that countenance He sin cerely 'believed that the measure would tend to great mischief, if.it did not prove altogether fatal' to the interests of the Colonies. When he turned' from the Colonies to the state of Ireland, he saw still greater Cause for alarm. He spoke in the hearing of those who had a greater knowledge Of that country; andhe believed they would agree with bini that the measure was dan gerous to the interests of the establishments there. He could not agree with those who thought that -the Bill, if passed into a law, would produce such Mighty effects on the condition of the Irish People ; it would - make no sensible alteration in the con 7 dition 'of the population of England—from it the body of the people would receive no accession of wealth, of comfort, of personal independence ; the higher orders of the laity 'alone would be be nefited by this measure, but, the body of . the people would remain as discOntented as ever. Of the Catholic Clergy he was inclined to speak in terms of high respect, but they were men— honest but mistaken—liable to human, errors, and to human passions ; they looked up to their Church, which they believed should hold. the highest and most commanding station ; they looked upon all other religions, as founded in, error, and ,as unhallowed, usurpations; their am bition and their pride were identified with a sense of duty ; emancipation would only incite them to work with more activity on 'the feelings of their flocks, it would be acceptable to them only ,as it might afford an opportunity to future innovation, and thus concession would prove a signal of bat tle—not a sign of peace. The measure was. not a measure of conciliation—it was received .by the Catholics with indignation—by the Protes tants with - dissatisfaction, becausel.the restraints which to the Catholics were vexatious, to the Protestants were not satisfactory. On the nature of those securities he would say a few words. .If the Bill intended to legalize the CathOlic chy,, some regulation to prevent even the suspicion of their intercourse with the Court of Rome, would be but reasonable and necessary.—But the danger which was to be apprehended was not likely to grow out of, open rebellion, .out of any. system Which : would .explode iiiiiolent and ..sad den commotion, fhe danger. was rather to be.ap prehended from changes, which,' in process of tirne, the secret but aCtivePerSeverance of-the Catholics would bring about in the Legislature and Government of the country-. Against that danger no regulation that Wisdom could devise, would be a sufficient guarantee. Ilow would it be possible to restrain the Catholics from the exercise of power once possessed, from carrying by their influenge the Elections is Ireland, from excluding their youth from the schools of Jesuits, from extending by every means their influence and power —power which - ,would stand netes sarily hostile, and might prove ultimately _fatal to the PrOtestant Establishinent?* • • e The Duke of Si..Tssea; declared that it was his • anxious wish to discuss the preset qaestion with coolness, but that he found it impossible altoge ther to suppress his feelings upon the sub:feet._ He had always considered -the present question as one of great magnitude, and indeed of vital consequence to the empire. He bad always con sidered it with a due regard to those princifiles . which placed urn the Throne that family of which he was an humble member. In looking at the question their Lordships ought, in his opinion, -to examine the origin of the obnoxious and cluSive laws, and see whether those laws were. consonant to the present opinion of the Catholics.' Undoubtedly, at the period at which those laWs_ were framed, there was ample reason to justify them, and it was not to be concealed that those reasons were coupled with strong irritation. But a material change had taker place in circUm stances, a stronger proof of which - could not be exhibited than that which might be collected from the Petitions on their Lordships' Table—. Petitions couched in terms so respectful as to command their Lordships' attention, He would, now proceed to 'eXamine the arguments of the Right Reverend Prelate who had lust spoken,. just observing at the outset- that It struck him that much confusion arose from misnomers ; and. that it was essential'in an argument that the terms of it should be clearly understood. lie would request their Lordships to consider the words of the Articles 'of the-Cliurch.' The 3"; th, Article ran thus 7—" The King's Majesty bath the Chief power in thi s rea l m o f England, and. other his - dominions, unto whom the chief; government of all estates of this realm, whether they be ecclesiaStical or civil, in all causes cloth appertain, and is not nor ought to be subject to any foreign jurisdiction." There was no il;o7rni.u. : Catholic whatever who would deny his assent . tO that proposition. The article proceeded thus ee--- " When we attribute to the King's Majesty. the chief governm en t, by w hi c h t i t l eS we un d erstan d the - minds .of some slanderous folks to . be of fended ; we give . not to our princes the minis- tering either of G o d's w o r d or o f the-Sacra , ments, the which thing the injunctions also late ly set forth by Eliaaheth our. Queen, do most plainly testify; but that only prerogative.which we 'see to have been giyen always to all godly Princes in Holy Scriptures by God himself ; that is, that they should rule all states and degrees coininitted to their charge by God, whether they be eccieSiastical or temporal, and restrain with the civil sword the stubborn and evil doers." — After remarking on the definition of ec.ciesia-• stical power which. the article that he had just quoted contained, his RoyaleHighness proceeded. to observe, that when he , was at the university , of :Gottingen (a University of which the King of this. country 'was the. Rector), be was un der .a Professor whose general talents were well known,and whose intimacy with the principles : of the . canon law. Was acknowledged throughout Germany. If their Lordships would allow late, he WoUld read that Professor's definition of ei:cte siastical power. His Royal Highness here react. the Learned Professoe's'opinion-in - Latin at. con siderable length, and maintained that it was-' strictly conformable to the. articles, and to; the injunction, of Queen. Elizabeth, on la'hicb those ,articles were fOunded. If no law. could be promulgated for the internal regulation of society, without the consent of the Sov - e" reign, he 'could see no. difficulty in letting, the Catholics have that share in the legislation/ to which, as subjects of the realm, they were en titled.. In contradiction to the opinions main tained by'the Noble Earl, with respect to- Papal influence, he maintained -that the Pope neitW ought to have nor had influence in any country in which the Sovereign, did not contribute the establishment of that influence. Nobody could doubt that the Sovereign. of this conntri must always be a.Protestant ; and therefore wlot was there to apprehend from influence whirl' ' such a Sovereign would of cou r s e no t. confirm And besides, if he might have the presumption to say so, the sovereignty of this country ( 11 ( 1 not reside in an individual, but in a corporate body. In order to show_ the fact, that the Pope had no power. of interference without thesaho tion. of the Sovereign; eve n i n a C a th o li c cowl* try, his Royal Highness adverted to the consti - • tuition of a General Coencil,. composed of all the - Catholic" Churches Chri , ;tendo w , of Bishops of Sovereigns, of Heads of Monastic Orders, of Heads of Univi , rsities, &c. • a'rid instanced the in efficiency .of the Bull of Pius the.4th, issued t ° Margaret of Anjou, then - Regent of the Nether lands, which was successfully opposed. both by the hierarchy and..the:civil members of the 69" vernment as Well as the efforts made in vain " Philip the Second in Spain, although aide'" ti p the Pope. If such wer e th e difficulties, ever in instruct ions of Catholic country, of car r yi ng th e i n of the Pope into effect, a f o rti or i thosedifficul ties would be much increased i n a Protestant country. After arguing this point at 47-onsid e able length, and with- gre a t a bility, his .Royal,. Highness maintained the exP e dieney rePe aun t laws. the passing of which nothing but state . . cessity—a necessity no lon ge r in existence—cou ld ll.ajesty jostifv. Ile was anxious that all his -rehended (al-, any-dangers which mightebh app faithful ,subjects of the Constitution', Tito srhovoiudliangezinijiachy securities blessingsagi anv,) as the Legislature mi ght though he confessed that I upon to can What their Lordships were called concede, In that night, was to legislate nut to ss _ 3.voual , - l ore but.eNe refit, not the Roman Catho . a s h i i o s n, opinion,l) shut to make m tl a t k e they such h e n re, o g t n t l o at n . io te as any co ‘ t:cL . dill (i e . e n n o i t expe antic ip ate a class of his `Majesty's subjects. 'Msßoyal nig" Dr, tli, ;Nru