The Sun. — London, England, 1821-12-05 00:00:00

could discharge his debts out of such returns. The landlord and the tradestnan ought each to tte_paid ; but he ventured to affirm, that in many cases corn could not be grown at its pre seat prices,‘.even if. the rent and poor-rates were left unpaid. .There was one class of persons who had hitherto been more fortunately situated than many others—he alluded to the graziers ; and even these were now forced to complain. Tbis.wat a proof, - as striking perhaps as any that ,tbtild be adduced, of the existing distress. At YISe - markets, there was sometimes a day more thssering than others, - but then it was followed by • a 'succesSion of many bad ones. The agricul twists, he repeated, only came forward to ask a dtte reinuderation for industry—to ask that no : advantages should be 'given to the foreigner ' which they also might not - be permitted to enjoy. • Mr. EI,LMAN, jun., adverting to what he had .before said, relative to the importation of 600,000 quarters of Foreign . Wheat, for which there had been 'no occasion, read the following extract from the evidence•of Mr.TOoke (a Russian Merchant) before the Committee of the House of Commons : scr-11Thy should a different principle apply to corn than any other general production ?—Because a flit in the price of any other commodity, not of ge neral necessity, brings the article within the reach of the consumption of a greater number of ittdivi • duals, whereas in the case of corn, the average • quantity is sufficient for the supply of every indivi dual; all beyond that is an absolute depression of the market for a great length of time, and a succes sion of even two or three abundant seasons must • evidently produce an enormously inconvenint ac cumulation. Is there not a greater consumption of-corn when it is cheap, than when it is dear, as to quantity ?—There may be, and possibly must be, a greater consumption ; but it is very evident that if - the population was before adequately fed, the increased consumption from abundance can amount to little more than waste, and this would be in a very small proportion tOthe whole excess • of a good harvest or two.", If this were correct, the principle would be the same, whether the price were high or low. If there was in 1813 sufficient corn in the country, it followed that the 600,000 quarters of Foreign Wheat must have remained till 1819 ; and the harvests being good, they must Continue unsold through the years 1819, 1820, and 1821. Mr. E. called on Mr. Durrant to say, whether, if this importation • had not taken place, the prices of corn would have been what they actually are?—Mr. D. re plied in the negative. • Mr. MARTIN stated, that he was 'acquainted with a Russian merchant in .London, ,from whom he learned; that if 'our ports should be opened for the importation of foreign grain, he would be enabled, through his' Russian correspondents, for whom he acted as a Commission Broker, to pour in no less than 150,000 quarters at once into this country. The land in Russia, it was known, was not cultivated by-farmers as in this country, but by the Nobles of the country, and by these Nobles - the merchant to whom he alluded was • employed to be on the look out for their interest in this country, or to be in readiness for the dis posal of their produce, should an opportunity offer by the opening of our. ports. The supply - which he had mentioned, this merchant said he could immediately import from Itiga, which every intelligent agriculturist who heard him must know to be the best Wheat in Eu rope. ; yet that Wheat, his mercantile friend told' him, could be sold at 11/. per last, which last was equal to two loads of - Wheat. The freight would be only 31. a last, as he understood, so that two loads of Russian Wheat could be sold in our market at 1-I'. while, even, now, our wheat was at 121. a load. What; then, must be • the condition of the Agriculturists, if their ports should be opened ?—Their ruin, and - that of other classes, who seemed to think their interests distinct from that of the. Agriculturist, 'must in fallibly be the consequence. To guard, then, against such a calamity, the Agriculturists should proceed to action as early as passible ; they should lay their case before Parliament and the country, and the strength of that case could not fail to secure attention. Nothing, indeed, shOuld be omitted on the part of the Agriculturists, to avert the cloud that threatened to burst upon them, and to save themselves and the country from destruction, while it was yet practicable to do so. Therefore, he was an advocate for a County Meeting, or for any other proceeding that promised to give effective expression to the opinion and adequate publication to the case of the Agriculturists. • • Lord EGREMONT thought a County Meeting a very unfit place for the investigation of a ques tion of this nature ; for the details necessarily connected with such a question, could never be duly considered or discussed at such a meeting. But with what view should a county meeting be convened upon this subject ? Was it with a view to petition Parliament ? If so, he:recommended the gentlemen who supported that proposition to consider that they applied to Parliament last Sessions, and what good had they done them , selves or their case by that application ? They should consider also the general sense of the country upon the nature and purpose of their ap • pli cation to Parliament, and that they never could obtain their object without the consent or in contradiction to the decided 'opinion of - the •• other classes of their countrymen. The popula tion of the country had, as he had already ob served; increased within the last ten years no less • than . otte-seventh.• It was quite incredible that such increase should not produce an additional do - mand for corn. He believed that , within the last two years our agriculturists had to encounter very little or nothing of•competition from foreign corn; The•agricultnrists had not long since an opportu nity of baVing from' Parliament a conditional ar• rangement as to the import of foreign 'corn or a permanent duty upon that iinpOrt, and they chose the former. Still the agriculturists complained. According to his opinion, the permanent duty • would 'have been better for those agriculturists, while that ditty would• hive been paid by fo • reignera.- - --(Applauses.) - --Bot he confessed that he felt great difficulty upon the whole of this question ; and $ anxious wish was, - to ascertain wisatcould bo-4one,for the agriculturists, or what others Framed to o. lie wished, however, to have something definite and distinct proposed, before any further proceeding was. determined upon. Mr. ELLMAN, jun. after expressin g the utmost respect for the judgment of the Noble Chair man, expressed his opinion that another appli cation to the House of Commons upon this subject would be highly advisable. It was necessary, indeed, to satisfy the minds of the agriculturists, that something farther should be done. He bad reason to believe that the Re- port of the late Agricultural Committee, which was then before him, was only carried by a ma- jority of two. Ali the County Members, in deed, who were upon the Committee, were una nimously against its adoption ; and still retaining their views, it was the wish of those firm advo cates, for agriculture, that the agriculturists • themselves should come forward to declare their own opinion. If, indeed, the agriculturists did not make such , declaration their advocates in Parliament must feel themselves deserted by those whom they endeavoured to serve. But the report of the late Committee having been laid before the public for their consideration, it was the duty of those mast. immediately interested to state their approbation or dis appiobation of its purport or tendency. lie had, therefore, taken occasion to draw up some Resolutions founded upon that Report, and if their tenor were not borne out by that Report, he would be ready to admit that all that had been done by the Agricultural Associations was egregiously wrong. These Resolutions were, he felt, rather long, but he would submit them to the consideration of the Meeting, to be disposed of as its superior judgment might think proper. The first Resolution referred to the cause which had collected so many farmers together on this occasion, and it obviously could be no ordi nary cause that could induce industrious do mestic men to leave their buiiness and homes, and come from different and distant parts of the country to attend that Meeting.. That cause was indeed no less than this, that these honest farmers saw that ruin was staring them in the face, and they came there in the hope that some measure would be adopted likely to con duce to their relief or deliverance; to justify such a hope, and to advance the object of those who entertained it, he had ventured to draw up the Resolutions Which he held in his hand, and which, with permission, he would read to the Meeting—(cries.pf Read, read !)—and the worthy Gentleman then read the. following : " That at a moment like this, when ruin is' daily overtaking many of the most industrious of the tenantry, and threatening to overwhelm the whole of the present race of farmers it is a paramount duty which they owe to themselves and families, and to the numerous classes of society dependent on them for em ployment and support, to endeavour, by every legal means, to avert such a general calamity. " That in the last Session of Parliament, entirely in conse quence of the respectable Petitions presented to the Leaisla- Lure from all parts of the kingdOin, a Select Committee of the Rouse of Commons was appointed, and directed to inquire into the allegations of those Petitions, and to report their obser vations thereon to the House.' _ " That the Report, which was nude by a majority of the said Committee, although allowing to its fullest extent the dis tress of the tenantry, as alleged in their Petitions, and admitting the justice of their claims (which indeed it was impossible to deny), is nevertheless so incongruous, its reasoning in some parts being so directly opposed to that contained in other parts of the same Report, as to leave the present race of farmers very little hope of escape from irretrievable ruin, unless Petitions; and,in still greater numbers, be presented to Parliament in the ensuing Session, setting forth their dreadful and melancholy situation, and praying tor immediate relief. " That the said Report, at page 1, admits that, ' in their judgment, the complaints of the Petitioners are founded in fact, in so far as they represent that, at the present price of corn, the returns to the occupier of an arable farm, after allowing for the interest of his investment, are by no means adequate to the charges and outgoings, of which a considerable portion can be paid only out of the capitals, and not from the profits of the tenantry :'—thus spewing how rapidly ruin is overtaking all oc cupiers of arable land. That the said Report, at page 12, ad mits that the present system of Corn Laws tends to aggravate the evil of scarcity, and to render more severe the depression of price from abundance.'—And at page 13, it admits that ' should the average of the six weeks, preceding the 15th August, be 80s. Id. per quarter, for wheat, whatever may be the abundance of the forthcoming harvest, the ports and the warehouses of Fo reign Corn will be opened for at least six weeks, and in refer ence to the principal exporting countries for three months :,' thus fully acknowledging that the present Corn Laws are no protection to the British Farmer. " That the Select Committee, at pate 16 of the Report, ex press their great anxiety to suggest to Parliament, as a matter highly deserving of their future consideration, whether a trade in corn constantly open to all nations of the world, and subject only to such a fixed duty as might compensate to the grower the loss of that encouragement which lie received during the late war from the obstacles thrown in the way of free importation, and thereby protect the Capitals lIQW vested in Agriculture from an unequal competition in the home market, is not, as a perma= nent system, preferable to that state of law by which the corn trade is now regulated. The Committee also add, that t it would be indispensable for the just execution of this principle, that such duty should be calculated fairly to countervail the difference of expence, including the ordinary rate of profit, of producing it in any of those countries from whence our 'prin cipal applies of foreign corn have usually been draWn, joined to the, ordinary charges of conveying it from thence to our mar kets.' Thns admitting in its fullest extent the principle for which the different Agricultural Associations have at all times contended, viz. :—A duty on all foreign produce, to the growth of winch our own soil is congenial, equal to ie difference in the openee of raising it, here and abroad. eteThat after reading these arguments, so ably put, and so im retiZele to refute, it is with the greatest surprise that we find it in the said Report, that by the present Corn Laws, there is 4 can absolute prohibition against the introduction of every description of foreign grain, meal, or flour, into the consump tion of the United Kingdom, when the average prices, ascer tained according to the mode established by former acts, are below certain specified rates when it is known,. so far from • this being - the case, that any quantity, however Unlimited, of foreign grain, meal, or flour, imported previous to the shutting of the ports, is, from the moment it arrives, amalgamated with the British corn, and enters into the consumption. of the United Kingdom for months, nay, years afterwards, although the price may have fallen fifty per cent. below such specified rates—which has been fully exemplified by our having had fo reign corn free for sale on the London Market, from the 15th February, 1818, to the very day the Report of the Select Com mittee was made, 18th June, 1821, a period of nearly two years and a half. " That this Meeting are the more surprised at this descrip tion of the present Corn Laws, in page 1, seeing that it is in di rect opposition to the description given of them in page 13 of the same Report. " That this Meeting also feel great surprise that the Report should state that "rhe ruinously low prices of agricultural pro. duce, at this moment, cannot be ascribed to any . deficiency in the protecting power of the law. That protection cannot be earned further than monopoly, and that this moeopoly the Bri tish grower has enjoyed for the produce of the two last har vests.' When the very deficiency in the protecting power of the law, which the Honourable Committee so freely admit in page 13 of the Report as quoted before, was taken advantage of in 1818; when the Ports continued open for three months after the 15th of August of 'that year, by a very small excess above the import price, at the . moment we were reaping an early and abundant harvest, andiwhen we did not stand in need of a single bushel of foreign grain : and that in the opinion of this Meet ing, one great cause of the present distress of the farmers has been the immense importation which then took place, super seding the use of an equal quantity of British corn, and glutting the markets of this kingdom with foreign corn , comparatively I untitled and untaxed. " That were it possible to take one-tenth of all foreign pro duce imported for tithe, one -tenth for the relief of the poor, one-tenth for the repairs f highways; county rates, church rates, &c.; and two-tenths for .the payment of the national debt, pay oforeay and navy, support of Government, and so forth; the British Farmers would not object td the admission of all foreign produce, duty free ; but till this be done, they merely pray for such a duty to be imposed on importation here, as maybe equal to those expences to which our own . produce is subjected ; so that the British and Foreign Farmer may meet on equal terms in the British market. • . • " That the Report of the Select Committee, in briefly notic ing the evidence of some of the Petitioners, who gave it as their opinion that a duty of 40s. per quarter would be the lowest amount of duty that could secure the British Farmer, states as an objection to the _proposition,_ that it would be a prohibition , except in seasons of scarcity. - But that this Meeting, so tar from thinking this an evil, suppose that Corn. Laws are enacted for this express purpose. They are the more confirmed in this opi nion, as they find in the Report of the Select Committee of the House of Commons in 11;14, which sat on the same subject, the following words on this very point i--- 4 nooking to the impor tant change in our situation, to the abundance which we now enjoy, and to the great and extensive improvement made in cultivation both here and in Ireland, your Committee cannot but INDUI:GE - AHOPE that we have nearly arrived at that state in which nothing but a discouragement and consequent falling off of our own Agriculture can again drive us_ to the necessity of trusting to large importations, of foreign corn,-Ex cErr xx UNFORTUNATE SEASONS, when it may be neces sary to resort to this resource to supply the deficiency of our own harvest.' "That although the Report of the Select Committee of 1821, in one part, recommends a fixed duty as the best possible pro tection to the Agriculture of the United Kingdom ; still, in ano ther part, •it considers the present moment unfit for making such alteration. It recommends a continuance of the pre sent average system; urging, however, that the import price should be lowered ; because, the Report adds, ' it is obvious that the duty would otherwise not only cheek the sudden and overwhehning amount Of import, . but also enhance the price beyond what it might reach under the present law.' That this Meeting, • so' far_ . from thinking thiS obvious, be- .„ lieve it would make no difference in that respect, particu larly as in page 13 of their Report, the Select Committee expressly admit that the. prices of corn on the Continent are not regulated by the cost of production, but entirely by the price of other countries in which there is a demand for it. That the Report at page 23, affirms that the demand of the Agricultural Petitions for equal protection with manufactures, rests in part upon a misconception of facts, because the duties payable on several manufactured articles are imposed to counteract the ex cise duties on the manufactory of them in this kingdom ; but that this Meeting, with due submission, conceive, whether taxa tion be direct, as in the case of the manufacture of glass, or in direct, as in the case of thegrowth.or, as it May be called, manu facture of corn, it can make no difference as to the justice of their claims for protection ; because, if all indirect taxation were removed, and were it pOssible to impose a duty on the production of every quarter of corn (the same as on hops) equal to the indirect taxation now paid, the price at which the British Farmer could afford te sell his produce would remain unaltered. _ 'That this at :fleeting are of opinion that 40s. per quarter on wheat, 10s. per cwt. on meal, and the amount of duties as enii merated, are the lowest which can aftbrd protection to the Bri tish Farmer ; there being at least that difference between the cost of production here, and the cost of production there, to gether with the expence of conveying it from abroad, and therefore, according to the admission of the Report, at page it;, they are only asking what they are fairly entitled to. " That it is clear, that although the ruin in the first place must fall on the tenantry, still it is not less so, that as rent is merely the surplus left after allowing the tenant a fair return for his capital and industry, it' Will soon reach the landlords, and through them every class of society." • After some pause, Lord EGRENIONT rose, and observing, that as no one appeared disposed to speak upon this proposition, he would take leave to suggest what, in his opinion, ought to be done; he was not able, he was ready to say, to form any judg ment upon so long a paper, .merely from hearing it once read, and he presumed that the same inability must attach to others. Therefore, he proposed, that this paper should be printed and published for general consideration, before that or any other meeting was called upon to decide as to the propriety of its adoption. In his opinion, too, it would be more expedient to postpone any decision upon the subject of this Meeting until the spring, the Meeting pledging itself, that if, at that time, any pro bability should appear of opening the ports, it should immedi ately re-assemble, in order to deprecate such a proceeding, while the assemblage of every other district in the county should also be recommended for the same purpose ; for he was himself fully persuaded, that the opening of the ports for the import of foreign corn would be productive of the ruin of the country, as foreign nations, which had such a great accumulation of corn, would promptly pour in such a supply . at any price, as must serve to destroy our own agriculture. At present, lie thought that nothing more should be done upon this subject, and he particularly oppoied the reference of the question to a County 11leeting, ,from which no practical good could be expected. He, indeed, never knew of any useful result from a County Meet ing, and, therefore, he bad long resolved never to attend one of them ; for he found only plenty of talkers at such Meetings, while no deliberate consideration appeared, while no salutary effect was produced. But his objection to a County Meeting was peculiarly applicable to the present case, which required. serious and cool investigation of various details and arguments, before any satisfactory decision could be pronounced upon it.— The Noble Lord repeated his opinion, that any further pro ceeding upon the question which had assembled the Meeting, should be postponed until the spring, before which the evil ap prehended by . the Agriculturists could not possibly occur.— In the mean time, he recommended that the paper which had been just read by Mr. Ellman, and which, so far as be could understand it, appeared very good, should be printed and pub lished in the Newspapers, m order that all parties interested should have due time to consider and judge of its merits. ELLMAN, jun. stated, that, he had this morning re ceived a communication froin a gentleman, who stated that it was the intention of Government early in the ensuing Session, to propose the abrogation of the present Corn Laws, in order to substitute the imposition of a duty upon the import of foreign corn. This gentleman was Mr. M ebb Hall, who stated that he had received his intelligence from Mr. Huskisson ; and here Mr. E. read an extract from the letter of Mr. Hall. The in tention of Ministers Was perhaps of the same nature as that proposed by Lord Londonderry in the late Agricultural Com mittee, namely, to reduce the importing price to 70s. a quarter, and to impose a duty of 15s. on every quarter of foreign wheat which should afterwards be imported. To this proposition, however, the Committee did not attend, or at least no decision was pronounced upon it. But with respect to the Noble Chairman's recommendation of waiting until the Spring be fore any measure was taken to guard against the evil of open ing the ports, he could not by any means acquiesce in that recommendation ; for such delay on the part of the Ag riculturists would imply the desertion of their Parliamentary advocates, .and especially of the County Members, who had 'so strenuously stood by them. Besides, he had reason to believe that early in the next Session a motion would be made for the revival of the Agricultural Committee, and therefore it -behoved the agriculturists to ,proclaim their opi nions, in orderto give support and countenance to such a mo tion. It was also to be considered, that if the agriculturists should defer any proceedings until spring, and that the price of corn should get up, which, however, seemed not very likely, particularly, because, from the very"bad quality of this year's growth of corn it could not keep, and must be taken to market within the year, to be sold at any price that could be obtained, however low, they would lose the argument which low prices afforded at present in support of their proposition, as many per sons might say, what do the farmers want but good prices for their corn, which they now have ? and thus the adoption of any measure for the perManent relief and protection of the agricuL tural interest might 'be endangered.. Mr. LANIBE tbought a County 'Meeting very desirable, upon this occasion, as the _declaration of such a Meeting, not only upon the distress of agriculture, but uponthe general state of the country, must be so much more impressive than the r 2..: solutions of any parochial or mere district meetings. This he knew to be the decided sentiment of the eastern part of the county with which he was immediately connected, especially with a view to the adoption of a Petition to Parliament, for which he should certainly be an advocate, believing such peti tions necessary to support the friends of agriculture, and to counteract the hostile influence and active opposition which they had reason to apprehend. Mr. ELLMAN, - sen., took occasion to ask Capt. Haviland; that supposing the present state of agriculture to continue, and that corn should not rise to such a price as to occasion an oro ing of the ports, the markets being supplied with the old corn in conjunction with the produce of the present year, what was likely to be the condition of the labouring class in the parish which lie inhabited ? Capt. HAITI LA ND answered, that lie had no doubt one half of the agricultural labourers would be reduced to a state of ab solute pauperism. Lord EGIUnIONT asked whether, if money were had to employ those people, such a result could be apprehended ? Captain HAVILAND replied in the affirmative. Lord EGIMMONT—Do you think the want of money and employment in this parish, to proceed from the falling off in agriculture ? Captain HAVlLAND—Certainly. Mr. INGRAM—If money were found for the employment of those labourers, do you think they could be advantageously employed ? Captain HAVILAND—Yes. And there would be no want of money to employ them, if the farmers had an adequate price for their corn. Mr. HITCIIINS expressed an apprehension, that if nothing were done for the agriculturists on this occasion, and that all farther proceedings were to be postponed until, spring, a great and general despondency would be created throughout the Country ; and under all the circumstances of the case, he really thought it would be much better to keep alive some hope in the breasts of those who were most severely suffering. Mr. HITCH INS proposed that the paper which had been read by Mr. Ellnian should be referred to - a Committee, in . or der, after due consideration, that it should be submitted to an other meeting, which should be 'fixed - for some future day. • Lord EGRE MONT repeated his opinion, that it would be better to have this paper published for general consideration, before any day was• fixed for deciding upon its merits. Mr. ELLMAN, sen., expressed his regret, that he had the misfortune to differ from the Noble Chairman as to the expe diency of postponing any proceeding upon this business. He, however, entirely concurred with thel\ Ale Lord's objection to a County Meeting, "especially upon a question of this nature.— But if any proceeding upon this question were delayed, it might turn out, as expressed in the old adage, that we should only have 'to close the door after the steed was stolen. It wa.szlue, in his opinion, to the Report of the Agricultural Committee, as well as to the duty which they owed their own families and interests, that they should declare some opinion upon the merits of that Re port, and that was all that the paper on the. table proposed. But this opinion would, in his judgment, be more deliberately and usefully expressed by meetings in the 'several districts of the county, than by a convention of the county at large; which convention being seldom if ever complete, and only serving to drag the more zealous individuals from diStant parts of the county, while the mass of the meeting usually consisted of the inhabitants of the district where such meeting took. plate. If, however, it should, after the district meetings, be deemed ad. visable to call a county meeting, he had no doubt that the Noble Lord, would readily consent to call it. The Worthy Member then proposed the places at which the district meetings should he called, for the convenience of the gentlemen residing in the' several rapes. • Lord EGREMONT said, that when he.proposed delay, he meant that time should be afforded to allow Gentlemen to con sider Is hat it was adVisable to do upon this transaction. Mr. ELLM A N asked Mr. Durrant what was likely to be the effect of 600,000 quarters of foreign corn upon the price of grain in the market at Mark,lane? DUSP.ANT repli e d, about as. or Ds. a quarter in a pro ductive harvest.' .Mr. ELLMAN asked whether the market at Mark-lane did not regulate the several country markets ? Mr. DURRANT answered in the affirmative. Mr. ELLMAN, jun., observed, that Mr. Durrant's replies furnished an answer to the Noble Chairman's question as to fo- reign corn. • • Lord IiGREMONT said that the Worthy Gentleman was under a mistake, as his questions referred to the quantity of fo reign corn actually consumed within the last year, which was matter of fact, whereas Mr. Durrant's replies referred merely to matter orinfercnce. Mr. ELLMAN, Jun., observed, that it was the same to the farmer whether 50 or 100,000 quarters of foreign corn were disposed of, or reserved to supersede so much of our own produce. Horsham having been proposed as the place for a district meeting, Mr. ELLMAN, Jun., observed, that that town had had a bad name for the farmers, who never went there of late years unless by compulsion—( Applause.) It was moved, that it be recommended to the several district meetings to consider the distress of agriculture as well as the ge neral state of the country. Mr. BLACK3I AN moved an Amendment, which contained an allegation in the Report of the Agricultural Committee, namely, " to consider of the injustice and injury cast upon all classes of the people by an unsettled currency." After hearing's of the cases of calamity which had been stated in the course of that day, and particularly of Englishmen compelled from dire distress to carry barrows from morning till night, with bells about their necks, he could not help expressing his extreme surprise that a greater scope had not been taken by the Gentlemen with whom this Meeting originated, and by whom it appeared to be conducted. He was surprised, for instance, that no observation whatever had been made, much less any proposition submitted, with respect to those men through whose conduct the country had been reduced to its present melancholy condition (Applause). Nor was it even noticed that among all the Lords and Com moners which this country contained, not one was in attendance at a meeting upon a question of such importance, but the Noble Earl in the Chair, who, so much to his own honour, seemed by his presence in due degree to sympathise in the wants or to evince so much solicitude for the interests of his countrymen.— (Loud plaudits.)—But the Gentlemen from whom this Meet ing emanated, seemed to have altogether lost sight of the ob ject which they ought to have kept in view, and not all to have reached the end, or conceived the extent of the evil which they deplored, for they had not even adverted to Ireland, where that evil was at present operating with peculiar severity. He was astonished to hear Mr. Ellman ascribe all our distress to the low price of wheat, while he entirely overlooked the low price of meat. Was he not aware that bacon was selling at 3d. a pound, and that the peasantry of Limerick were in open war fare, as " The Courier" stated, against rent, tithes, and taxes ? Did not the Worthy Gentlenian feel that the principle, of that warfare was the same as that to which the complaints of this Meeting referred ? Yet, the very serious disturbances in Ire land had not even been mentioned by any preceding speaker who supported the views of Mr. Ellman. He agreed with the Noble Chairman, that a county meeting would not be the pro per place for the discussion of a case of this nature, unless the system and practices of the men who had occasioned all our dis i tress were also brought under consideration. The Meeting had heard a great deal about the high and low prices of grain, but he had uniforthly told the farmers that they entertained very mistaken views upon this subject; they were, indeed, always misled. They were told that their condition could not be im proved, unless what was called the natural prices of corn were restored, and Mr. W. Hall described this natural price as that of 11113. But who could truly say what that natural price was, or who could properly separate that subject from the great money question. Ile had told farmers in that room, at the time the resumption of cash payments by the Bank was determined upon, 'to wait for two or three years, and they would see how much, independently of any reference to the import of foreign corn, their produce would be affected by that measure. Our popula tion had increased, he understood, one-sixth, within the last ten years, according to the recent Census, which was not yet pub lished. An increased population must naturally serve to ad vance the price of corn, .by increasing the demand for it ; while our improved produce of corn must reduce its price, and a de preciation of the currency must increase that price, whilst an advanced value in that currency must operate to reduce it.— Now, amidst the operation of all these causes, who could state what was the natural price of corn, independently of any ques tion as to the import of foreign grain ? Or was there any au thority in this country, however high, who could make any as sertion upon the subject that was entitled to attention ? Yet Mr. Webb Hall had ventured to make the assertion which he had mentioned. But really this' 'Gentleman seemed quite be 'side himself ;- for ne had roundly asserted, that it was of no con 'sequence whatever to the interest of agriculture, or that of the , country at large, whether the Bank resumed cash payments or not, provided adequate provision were made by the Legislature to guard against the import of foreign corn. Nay, in the pamph let in which these assertions appeared, Mr. Hall had observed, that " the most infallible criterion of national wealth and pro sperityis to- be found in a diminished value of currency, whe ther that currency shall consist of paper or metal, as that of poverty is to be found in a high value of currency."— Then, according to this Gentleman's doctrine, France enjoyed great wealth and prosperity when she was deluged by those assignats which were at last scarcely worth more than waste paper ; and so was America, when, at the time of her Revolu tion, she had so many depredated dollars in circulation. But it was quite idle to argue with such a writer, and yet he was ap painted by the present Mihisters Secretary to the late Board of Agriculture, while he was selected by the farmers as Secretary to their Agricultural Associations. How then could the agri culturists estape error or entertain correct views, while they acted under such a guide, . or attended to such an adviser ? Yet his authority had been quoted this day by those Gentlemen who so cautiously abstained from any animadversion upon the con duct. of Ministers, by whom all the affairs of the country had been so much deranged, by whom every visitation that afflicted the people had been mainly occasioned. He really could not see any ground upon which a consideration of the proceedings of these Ministers could be separated from the question before the Meeting. But to return to Mr. Webb Hall ; that Gentleman had stated that the amount of the Bank-notes did not affect the currency, and that we might return to cash payments at once, withumit a piejudice to the-colintrY, if the import of foreign corn could be effectually prohibited: But what said Mr. Thornton, in his celebrated book, about 15 years ago, that the value of the Bank-note currency must be seriously affected if it were allow ed to reach thirty millions, and it had since notoriously done so. With respect to the motion with, which he proposed to con nect his Amendment, he was quite ready to vote for District Meetings, and for a County Meeting after such District Meet ings had dee,4ered their sentiments, which Meeting would, he hoped, be determined upon, particularly with a view to consider the conduct of Ministers ; for how strange was it that the Chan r cellor of the Exchequer should be allowed to remain in office after a Committee of the House of Commons, comprehending four of his own colleagues, had published a Report, containing a direct contradiction of the resolution which that gentleman proposed as to the currency upon the discussion of the Bullion question in 1811. But every part of the conduct of these Mi nisters had some extraordinary aspect, or some mischievous result. The Amendment having been read, Lord EGREMONT declared his entire concurrence with Mr. Blackman, that an unsettled currency was the great source of the evils which afflicted agriculture. But .he believed that the adoption of the measure for resuming cash payments was forced upon Ministers, as the American war was upon Lord North, by the voice of the people. He had opposed both thos e measures, but still he felt that Ministers had in each case bee° compelled to yield to the opinion of the public, as d as to there' sumption of cash payments, the measure was now decid' upon, and as the thing was done, he thought it impossible t° remedy it. Mr. ELLMAN, Senior, felt himself bound to oppose tit is Amendment, lest from its adoption, this might be deemed political meeting, which was a character he did not wish it t° bear. Mr. BLACKMAN considered it mere drivelling and nom sense to say that a meeting was not political which involved th e interest, as its authors alleged, of every class of the people. The money question was indeed the key-stone of the arch of such ! meeting, and therefore the consideration of that question cottl,' not be consistently excluded any more than - the conduct of '.3 l ' nisters, who upon that question attempted to make Mr. Ricard° their scape goat, because they adopted his- plan in order to re' lease,themselves of their own motion. Yet thus the farmer ] were imposed upon and led away from any consideration of tilt conduct of Ministers. But the fairders must, JO 'order to undcr" stand their case, follow different leaders from those to yawl they had heretofore attended. They must plough deep ao' contrive to render their brains clear, and fallow for the receptip il of better secd.—(Applause.) Lord EGRE3IONT said, that 'he could not consider the Amendment of Mr. Blackman as a political or partypropositiPr' Nschatever he might think of that Gentleman's speech for it was the fact, that all partics, in ntrliament and out of it, stIP ported the -resumption of Cash Payments. Lords Grey any Lansdown did . so as well as the Ministers. Nay, Mr. Cobbett himself did so, and " what the devil more," said the Noble Lord,'" would you require ?" [a laugh and applause ?" • • After a few more obsetvations from Mr. 4ii4Aulotio , Mr. Tillman withdrew his opposition, and the Jimendment sra° adopted. ••• Thanks were voted 'to Lord Egrethont for his conduct in the Chair, upon which the Noble EarZ express:ll his acknowledg' ments, which were received with great applauSe, and, after er' dering that the several Resolutions shoula, with-Mr. Ellman, paper, be inserted in the " Lewes Paper," " The Fariner s • Journal," " The Brighton Chronicle," and certain other l'ape'l , . the meeting broke up about font-o'clock. • STATE OF IRELAND. I / A Meeting upon this subject was held nester' day at the Thatched House, St. James's-street' There , were very few persons present.—Mr' STERNE TIGRE moved, that Lord Darnley (I° take the Chair. He was glad that the disgrace' ful state of Iretand was about to attract the at' tentiou of persons in England, notwithstandir4 the absence of many distinguished persons.--' Lord DARNLEY, previous to taking the Chair , said he was limited in point of time, neverthele ss he had deemed it his duty to attend, and Jo therefore hoped that they would allow him t o ' decline taking the Chair. lie understood the ob' ject was to petition the King to convene Parlie meat as early as possible, but from such course he apprehended little advantage. Such was li' e state of Ireland, it could not be remedied at once' Ireland, that unfortunate cointry, had for cell' tunes been under a system of mismanagemeotl and it would require length of time to :Trued , 1 the evils which they all deplored.—There beia, loud calls of " Chair, chair ! " Lord DAR NI. took the Chair. 0 . _ Mr. S. TIGHE then opened the business o f the meeting. His object was to have that inquiri instituted which should make England acquain t ' ed with the real causes of the calamities that 11 0 afflicted Ireland. England was ignorant of then'' Some attributed them to lax Government ; other s to the exactions of landlords ; and others t o the t Orange system ; but all were wrong. The cause s were unknown ; he wished England to becoro e acquainted with them. The alleged exactiao s , of the landlords were founded in error; he coo l ' assure them that, as a general ground of con v plaint, they did not exist. The landlords ° f Ireland did not by any means draw so much frog' their tenantry as the landlords'of England did Cr ° ' , [theirs ; there was nothing like the same proportion; The charge respecting the collection of tithes 0 " as ill-founded ; undoubtedly a more agreeable mode of collecting tithes might be adopted, mo re l suitable to the meridian of Ireland ; but he denret that the Clergy of Ireland collected those tithes in an oppressive manner. As to the Magistracy, the: had done their duty with ability and moderation —the various ill-founded rumours on this so b ; ject were most prejudicial. With respect to o' ll causes of the calamities in Ireland, it was enoug e to know that Ireland was in a most dangerous s tat —a state that risked the tranquillity of the 1,3-' n ; pine. It was .a fit subject for the investiga tio .' of Parliament, and he therefore moved a l'et v tjon to the King to convene Parliament as ear l f as possible, to see whether the evil could-10.e medied, Ireland, amidst its crimes, having escap es ed the suspicion of disloyalty and disaffection to the Government.—lle then.read the Petition. A Gentleman read a speech, in which he Ile. dared that the cause of all Ireland's calarnitie' was over-taxation. Mr. TIGHE repeatedly rose to order without being heard at first ; at last he proceeded to ( l e o / precate the entering upon so enlarged a view" the subject. Lord DARNLEY said, that whatever was calc v lated to unfold the cause of the calamities co n ( I not be deemed irrelevant, though be questioneir the propriety of entering so fully upon the su e t ject. He must nevertheless say, that some ,) the facts of the paper were but too true.—(llea c ) —The Gentleman then resumed, and proceed to condemn the system of " middle-men." 'P e e ( must do something more than make a Barracl* r , Ireland, before they would make Ireland bett e , —The Noble Chairman then called tit? Gentl, e e man to order, lamenting that any thing 1 ,, party feeling should chew itself.—The (ient,)e(l man continued, and said, that he had suffe re r from the villanous system that was now in oPe l. i , e tion.—Another Gentleman moved, that nom of the Gentleman's paper be read.—(A laugh. ie/ )0 The Gentleman, however, continued. The try was, the Government of Ireland was too exl 3 , eo, sive ; it was much too highly taxed; and ti t,* ` t i remedy was applied to that evil, the tranquia l : of Ireland could, not he restored. Mr. WELLS spoke of the imperfect character. 'll4 the laws. The proximate causes of the evils v t.e e the sending home of Irish labourers without pfl viding for their subsistence, and tie low price s i the produce of the land. They were so low tbii eo the occupiers could not pay the rents which 'landlords were entitled to receive. Ile t b read a series of Resolutions, proposing a l'et' t ve to Parliament, to forward the internal impo hs t meat of Ireland, &c. He also proposed ti"o9 Committees be appointed to carry into effec t Resolutions. tfe /1 Mr. WATSON spoke to order. The queseile was, should they petition the King to co G e n' Parliament? .If th e y were to hear every u hije l tleman's 'dissertation on causes and effects,