The Sun. — London, England, 1844-02-15 00:00:00

proceed no p. yly to had ie Corn ;ter had ent ease ) enter )gations ut. He apposite moved 3ominit" , to in° a suf . lose in navy of making offence. lief was aade on a served e s hould lenee in ie que s. n giving himself. ly borne , ys con . e gal. Ise' had Lecessity en front opinion though t end th 9 let the ent Bi ll ions for I urn! of thins ht the, te, as he 3reSellee Govern ambling bling• if the to the i y W ade ation of of three yPd. Above' ntinued, brought islatur ntlernan oar in: El would -Afember ling t il l , ments f action of or wh e. For , , ro patw ' T i l er° than 110 peoc i l : ws. n ittee. E y, the 7 o IP uss on 04 the OP . 1311 51)1.ug or'o tha t er, Or -178 iii of t h e dew tere s ibiLl33' the previous evening, but, unfortunately, his sentiment h co ncession had reached its utmost limits had gone e to the country, and the Irish people believed that 7 fl a s in earnest when he made that declaratio . The Honourable Baronet said he deprecated the " meat of a military Government in Ireland, be the that in any country it would be attended with • e IllOst lamentable effects ; but his own words were ' fl eensi stent with his professions. It was now the fashion tt i adopt a centralising system. He (Lord Clements) had I ,:sYs been opposed to that' system. In Ireland there 4,,trinisa,fooorOc'e policemen under 0 77 officers, and the whole underthe control of a single individual. li e ' l , ll such a stem the greatest evils might be expected. (If ,nad the bet authority for asserting that the police L ieland resembled a military force, and that it was so loseact for all practical purposes. This force was . not d dangerous to the liberty of the country. but it im er,un, a heavy burden on the Irish people. In the wa q - Y of Tipperary alone the cost of the police force e l s - rm uPwards of 40,000/. The Right Hon. de tar 4 that he had no wish to continue the p resentp mi force in Ireland, but he manifested no disposition the Whatever to reduce it. The great number of abuses in re „, su Perannhations tended to show that the Govern thintt,did not contemplate any alteration. Considering e ,„" toe Arms' Bill of last session was proposed to aid the ilit7,stahulary force of Ireland, he thought they ought to a en‘ '!' seen that it was perfectly carried into effect. He ti a - j;,, e , (1 9 however, that such had been the case. The con kent-LurY officers had not even registered their own i 0 0 8 1 and it was his intention to move for a return w order to show that this statement was correct, There ao n d hey a nr er of the most stringent character from the_ to r ", 4 , the police in Dublin, before there was any Act gli,ntte the importation of arms into Ireland. Yet 110 4 Police of D u bl in anticipated the Act of Parliament, clause" authority to search, at the very time that the $e would was under discussion in that House.—(Hear, hear.) A os w i p uld now r ea d t o th e House what he considered a ett distressing case, under the operation of the Arms aril ; Mr. John Hall, who was licensed to make and sell p oli s, in Aungier-street, Dublin, died last year, and the t ers ee 4 Dublin took possession of his stock before let- Nita administration were taken out. Gentlemen op positei might laugh, but let them put themselves in the th°n of the deceased man.—(Laughter.) Let them put emselves in the gun-maker's case.—(A laugh.) Let l ie , 4 put themselves in the widow's case.—(Great 'ap o t te r.) He would not tire the House with dwelling h ave a hardship, with which gentlemen opposite could th e e "" sYmpathy.—(Hear, hear.) They had shown in th eir u arse of the evenin7 that they had sympathies for and v Own 6111 SS, but they had none for a bereaved widow th en , I ,e oppressed orphans. But he would now state to W as . ". t ,a,e case of a gentleman—Colonel Hodder—who e ' - 'atted upon to pay a duty of 21. 12s. Gd. for a license di d "IT his own gun into Ireland. But Colonel Hodder *-'ftnot think t h e gun was wor th the cost of the license. 4`,l ie ar, hear, and laughter.) Gentlemen would laugh, it a 'night laught again.—(Renewed laughter.) But was 1 1 10 ',flatter of laughter that the principal provisions of ,ert.tAct had been neglected by the officers of the Go -4ely,,lne°t, the officers of the army, and the police them in e r The A c t provided that it should be proclaimed hke ve lY county. But in the county which he no t u 3 honour to represent, there had been e r ae ntt , a ei amation.—(Hear, hear.) The officers of the do r ,,,J "ad not registered their arms, nor had the police tea r " (Hear, hear.) He could come to the law of on which he would say no more (because an th e h r Y was :going on upon the subject) than this—that trio rA - 7 of distress and ejectment required alteration t o titan any other of which the people of Ireland had lal u ' ata lllaim. He had himself known cattle of ofthe -.4° 1 25/. to be taken away and sold for a debt 3/. t ts s .P.r: hear.) In the case of con-acre, the grievance 4 04 1. ' 1, 11 more serious. The hardship pressed severely 'CO; t t b n e Poor, and required alteration far more than Jive law of ejectment. He had the misfortune to he re it ,ngst the - poorest part of the population, and th ey e.etted to say that the poorer they were, the more da t ; ver e oppressed.--(Hear, hear.) There was hardly Pe oe 4 Passed that he did not hear of complaints from the ° f Cases of the most flagrant oppression and unjust tinit ee t on the part of the magistracy. He admitted for s ( -_,O subje c t o f con - acre was one of great difficulty evil shat to handle. Still it was so great an io hi, -at something should be done. He had done all froilt-trxwer to dissuade the people in his neighbour '44 " i s species of gambling. But food was such a qta(„ a ,° lo ll_gst them that they would run any hazard to Nv e ,„ - f lt• He thought it would be very much to the akvi n —a ge of the people of Ireland if t he gentlemen L 'ilbj er giPr„oPerty there would turn their attention to the uett e „ - ",, ° ' eon-acres. As matters now were, it was far ta ark • ior the poor man to purchase his potatoes in the \l nt e p. th ,. 411 to go in debt to possess the doubtful ad elil,lhoi a con-acre. The system was fraught with goat led to continuous discontent and quarrelling. 04,,„ e litiCTriall when speaking of the poor of Ireland referi:ed to the Roman Catholic population. Illeta t i Present i ns t ance he did not mean to do so. He 'Non to advocate the case of the poor Protestant popu-the _ It o ' Whose sufferings were equally great as those of 'eat d man Catholics. The Protestant poor of the pre - Ivlte r ,„ 4 Y in Ireland were men who had fallen from a state R ate - o in they possesse d a compe t ence an d com fort into a 7at ilu f abject misery and distress, in consequence of the tha t e of legi s l a ti on which was adopted in respect to a s tO ti ntrY. He alluded to the class who were known i ast s enai ddle-men in former times. He recollected an 3 at l ' ee in which a gentleman who had formerly J ilt , with hi m (Lord Clement) on t h e G ran d thal' l ,,llui fallen into such a state of poverty of d h ad wife, who had been educated as a lady, ra _ been accustomed to the luxuries of a lad Ally was now obliged to milk her own cows. e evils w ere t o b e a ttributed to ill-directed hot stio. The passing of one measure alone would 10 :Pet' that state of things. The Legislature, htehty -er to' effect any good, must be ap.xiously of th ' l,l l to improve the means, and foster the industry e People. Then, with respect to education, he must eeeatheirnfot rtdhi(- that unles s the Government - were prepared to adopt thrown Wyse), s l e as ), t night bai the Hon. Member for thto establish colleges throughout sceountry, for the gentry and middle classes, be thought l y'q who were now studying in the national-schools I , ( ` li a 4 itl e far . outstrip in information and intelligence . those_ onsidered themselves far superior to them in rank. thereev,.was also another subject of complaint ; it was the k`TT I n in which many of the parishes were with re ohe religious. instruction. In the pariah next to the w as .0 Which he lived the rector was an absentee. It postPpossible that the curate could do all the duty im no C e ., 11 1 3 ,0n him, and thus many who paid tithes received . h e t h Q ue fit whatever. The Ecclesiastical Commissioners, tend in ught, were at fault in the matter. It was by at g t° such subjects as those he had mentioned, and ivc,4ll,State prosecutions, that the people of Ireland lahli sh ° e,c9nie satisfied, and peace and tranquillity be es .)4r. in the country. Plant "DUNG said that one of the subjects of com down, enumerated by the Noble Lord who had just sat whi c h . W as the Arms Bill. That was a measure might neededh,s no vindication ; but, if it did, he made, the allowed to state one fact, viz., that ki lns le o ld system there were only 10,000 stand of th e lissletgiatered, while, under the system established by kiote rm A rnts Bill there were 120,000 stand of arms re a° much for the alleged grievance of the Arms seemed -e Point on which the main difference of opinion `ice 44 to exist, appeared to be this—that on the oppo • tihe prof.e of the House they were willing to do away with - "„ l ,enih e ,, st ant Establishment in Ireland, and that Hon. " I tae °n his side were not willing to do so. On the tee la r f a l,", e, in the course of this debate, much stress had 'tht 11" a sentiment which fell last session from the n e E t i,,2 ll ourable B arone t the Secretary for the Home 1 . - " el lt• He r e f erre d to the words that concession (" tie-cached it s po i nt, an d cou ld g o no further.— ‘'he a ' t r i hear," f rom t h e Opp os ition benches.) Now, Lsed l e Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) had 1-ha re these words, it was in reference to the Catholic uN . 1, and not to the sister country. So, too, had it ka„ c i ( Plained last evening by that Right Hon. Gentle " 4, 415e1 f• And he was perfectly right in so using Oct the declaration would have the most ex -44 . How could it be expected, after all that tish he d e n said and done by Mr. O'Connell, but that he to do away with the dignities and emoluments of k'tablish Church? ed The emoluments of that 4 h(l e t h" h ad be e en d d with no unsparing hand; , 4 °° ,ish e a",. were lice L an es so great as its enemies ;' 4l if p - i t ue wo Id y t no b believe. Nor were those who att:d the r o Church e Establishment ve. in Ireland sub rserl'atr the annoyances and insults which had been b i4 hOp r ; Church-rates had been abolished, several "en i - ; 4 been reduced, a portion of the tithes had 1. 1 , 113-i n en °P, the other portion was paid by the land -.°4 w e n - an agreement as to the rent, and, if that por and , (I " t re taken off, the gain would be to the landlords ~(4 1 v es to any other class therewhateve.—(Hear, hear.) Ile "le le -a le to th t *huh ,o us „ a_ wle was h eal question before 6,,v• It was whether the principles of the party p +. • b now the majority in that House were such as .w‘diu;eititztiebpalrilittheoftest of reason and justice—whether they aa tha accordance with the enlightenment of the age the British Constitution. Now, it was 'Nay n all hands that the grievances which afflicted that all i were not of easy or speedy cure; and he believed Zhieh partial men were of opinion that the party to \ i t nna mit 7 belonged were d o i ng t h e i r b es t t o l a y the "aistr n for this cure. But it was asserted by the late '"Aitlyelarihinwtheir usual offhand way, that all the evils think were Young) did of easy remedy. Be (Mr. ion residence ,for did those who best knew . the country ... 'smenc e in it. The two most prominent evils of 14 .hands h b 1, 44 g t e found in the evidence of Mr. Drummond, - tent -m il° man had exercised a more sound judg tara :regard to her affairs, or evinced a sincerer re elite ,Vr lamentedgentleman had de. 'That of dash,e4,tlLat.ii,e chief evils were a bad secret societies workingmass which, ti t l es whie ti i u ~e rt?r, had become recklesse.n a wthe reme hadedesigned for tir e: y e : p is w " e Ze a rn t i e n t e te nts of latey ad ni'stra e ti a o r n s of justice, an im • te aal on s Ystem of cons r talm i lar n ; a poor-law, and an ex `aid te °I . national education. Now could it be fairly th, tr . ' , tat the present Government host The efforts to `c }teen wanting ad tai .carry out these remedies?- - \ -- 1 dear, hear.) i ° flat- ministration of justice had been gre‘tly iinreyedu. Illi tt:a '4e " s, and the late Government, he fairly ;4 11 „ a L s o,_improved the coustabulary force,. though Riricost that it was maw one of the most y aw toreo,„ in (1 . the 0 Europe. The next remedy, the poo.rto - Jo h ! . ry owed to the Noble Lord opposi toe, to h e fitusso l .l), and he thought that Ireland ought I s _ that;r e,ir h y a t law most grate sd to him for it, for he believed it • 1 4 17 h pacleovern o l l i i r _ a blY suited to the habits ' and genius of the p ie. was receiving . from the Tiresent in d° nbt support al; d encouragement, and hp had Mt(' and hy their Zostering care it tad got th e va st Tam devel6pment, it would produce all e wer e advantages of which it was capable. But . ' 4 005 : r e other °. whichadvantages, besides its own intrinsic 4 4 iling to afford was being made capable. It was be edihfrst, a nucleus for other societies, whose pro- Lo,esecrtien4enelslabours would be productive of excellent •. Alre amany dy agricultural societies had 'vnut Into existence by its agency, many others were about to be formed, and there could be not doubt that their results would have . tkehappiest effect on the resoui ces and industry of the country.—(Hear, hear.) Then there was the system of national education—a measure on which certainly much difference of opinion had pre vailed in that (louse and throughout the country. That measure had received the best support from the present Government of the country, although he was s-irry to say at the expense of some political support, and con siderable political popularity. 'They were indebted also to the present Chief Secretary of Irel•uid (Lord Eliot) for two measures which he knew would confer great advantages on• Ireland—he alluded to the measures for the improvement Of inland naligfttion, and the encouragement of the most important branches of national education.—(Hear, hear.) Of the evils to which he had adverted, the combination of workmen, and the existence of secret societies must be looked upon as the greateSt. He was ready to admit that these societies had no direct political object. But though he would admit this, they were all acquainted how, in that country, by some insidious means or other, agitation connected itself with disaffection, from whence sprung, at all times, a tendency to disturbance. These matters always, some how or other, merged in agitation, disaffection, and disturbance. Taking this view of the consequences of agitation, it was evidently the duty of Government to suppress it in every way, and it was on this account that he rejoiced at the institution of the recent trials and.the success which attended them. There had been _ . much forbearance exhibited by the Ministry hefore in stituting these trials, and many persons had blamed them for it, but he confessed he thought they had exer cised a sound discretion. But fo"rbearance must have its limit,- although the grand difficulty was to fix where that limit should be. It might have been drawn at one' meeting or at another meeting ; but this he would not hesitate to say, that at whatever time it was drawn there would have been found plenty of Members on the other side of the House to mark it with disappro7 bation.—(Hear, hear.) But it was said by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord John Russell) that these measures would not produce permanent tranquillity, and that to Mr. O'Connell and his friends, and to them alone, was owing the present peace in Ireland. Now, he begged to say that that opinion was by no means shared in by men. who lived in Ireland, and who had the very best means of judging what was desirable for her welfare and ne cessary for her peace. It was the opinion of these men, watching with unceasing anxiety the course'of events in that country, that they owed nothing of good, nothing of peace, and nothing of tranquillity to Mr. O'Connell, but rather a sense of danger to them all --(llear, hear.) They thought certainly that Ireland had made great progress of late years, but that progress was by no means owing to the causes or the persons pointed out by, Hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the House. That prosperity was mainly owing to the vast extension of steam navigation. encouraging com munication, and developing her natural advantages and industrial energies to a wonderful degree.—(Cheers.) But they were told to rely on the popular leaders for the peace and prosperity of Ireland. True, at various public meetings Mr. O'Connell had made great promises on this head. He had said that when the union was re- pealed there would be universal peace and happiness in Ireland. Yes, there was to, be fixity of tenure, and every other blessing; whilst on the ruins of the Estab lished Church, should be raised the standard of univer sal freedom and toleration. He would quote, as a parallel to the speeches of Mr. O'Connell, one little para graph from a man who, like that agitator, had in another country wielded " the fierce democracy." It ran thus : "People have by their conduct confounded all their enemies ; not one has been shot in the struggle; not one drop of blood has been shed ;—how worthy of the en lightened people among whom it rose." Were not these words identical with those which generally marked the speeches of Mr. O'Connell ? Undoubtedly they were. And the words he had quoted were those used by Robespierre, at the breaking out of that Revolution which deluged France with blood, and handed over her people to those fiendish tribunals which had for ever earned an infamous nototiety to the period in her his tory known as the Reign of Terror.—(Hear, hear.) He was firmly convinced that of the thousands who at tended the great meetings at Tara, and other places, there was not one who was not persuaded that the , re- peal was to be carried by their mere appearance at those meetings, and the speeches made there. But he was sure that there was a fund of good sense in the Irish people that would, now they saw those meetings were opposed to the Constitution, induce them to refrain from such proceedings. Sir G. GREY said, whatever difference of opinion might exist as to some of the topics that had been introduced into this debate, whatever difference of opinion might be found in that House as to the policy of her Majesty's Government with regard to Ireland, and as to the mea sures which the present state of that country demanded, he thought there was one point on which the House was agreed—there was one point on which no difference could exist—he meant as to the important crisis under which the motion of his Noble Friend had been sub- mitted to the consideration of the House.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") It had not been denied by the Right llonourable Baronet the Secretary of State, or by any gentleman who had addressed the House, that there was deep and wide-spread excitement and dissatisfaction in the great bulk of the population of Ireland.(Hear, hear.) It had not been denied that Ireland was now occupied by a military force—that it was held by military occupation.—(Hear, hear.)lndeed, if any difference of opinion did exist upon this point, he would say the case had been still stronger put by the Right Hon. Baronet himself than by his Noble Friend. The Right Hon. Baronet stated in distinct and emphatic terms last night, and he would not question the accuracy of that statement—that such was the risk of that portion of her Majesty's dominions — such was the emergency of affairs in that part of the kingdom, that this military occupation waA rendered necessary by an attempt to wrest the country by physical power from the authority of the British Crown. Under these circumstances, his Noble Friend asked the House not for a Select Committee of inquiry, but, adopting the constitutional mode usually taken at such a crisis, he asked the House to consent to resolve itself into a Committee, by which the whole state of Ireland might be duly weighed and considered ; he took this step to enable them to express their sense of the importance of the crisis which had ar rived, and to express their determination to take such measures as might . avert the ^ cala- mity of Ireland being separated from the British Crown. And on what grounds, he would ask, did the Government invite the House to reject the motion of his Noble Friend? What grounds of hope or encourage ment for the future—(Cheers)—were stated by the Right Hon. Baronet, in his speech of last night, or by the only other Member of the Government who had addressed the House—the Hon. Member who had just sat down ? He admitted that the Right Hon. Gentleman objected to this continued military occupation of any portion of her Majesty's dominions ; that he stated that he did not look to that as the permanent remedy for the evils that afflicted that country, or for the perManent security of that portion of the empire. The Right Hon. Baronet stated this; but the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down said that the population of Ire land did look to the army for the maintenance of public peace and security. He would ask, what were the measures which the Government contemplated ? What course of policy were they ready to lay before the House, as the one they were determined to pursue, that would enable any reasonable man to think, taking the policy they had hitherto pursued, that it was one likely to win back the affections of the people of Ireland, which had been alienated from the Imperial Parliament ? whether it was one calculated to detach one man from the ranks of the repeal agitation ?—(Loud cheers.) Ire land, it was admitted, was occupied by military force. There was some confusion as to figures last night, and the Right Hon. Gentleman elicited a cheer from his supporters by attempting to show that there had been but a comparatively small increase in the military force stationed in Ireland. Why, from the figures laid on the table of the House, it appeared that on the Ist of January, 1844, as compared with the Ist of January, 1843, there had been an increase of 7,000 rank and file —(Loud cheering)—to the - army in that country ; yet a cheer was elicited last night by the Right Hon. Gentle man, by a statement that there had been no increase in the army. The Noble Lord on the opposite side (Lord Stanley), with that great zeal which distinguished him when he spoke in defence of any Government of which he happened to be a member, would probably share the sense of security which the Government felt from the display of this large force, provided and guided by the master hand and the master mind—(Loud cheers)—and would express his confidence in the efficiency of the portion of her Majesty's troops stationed in Ireland for the maintenance of the public tranquillity in that country, and to effect, for some time at least, that security for which the Right Honourable Gentleman relied upon the army.—(Hear.) The House must recollect that there had been an increase of 7,000 men, rank and file, during the last few months in Ireland in addition to the naval force. — (Loud cheers)—stationed on the coast—in addition to a battalion of marines.—(Loud cheers.) He did not find the slightest fault with the Government for this. In the state to which Ireland was brought, it was the duty of the Government to provide such a force.-- (Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) He quite concurred with those Hon, Gentlemen that in the state to which Ireland was reduced under that Government, of which they were the sup porters—(Cheers from the Opposition)—he was quite free to admit, that in such a state of affairs it was the duty of the Government to maintain the authority of the Crown, and the security of the British Empire.- But was this military occupation to be a permanent system ? If it was not to be a permanent system, what was to be the change in the policy which had produced this state of things, what was to be the future course of the Go vernment ? On what means did they intend to rely for the maintenance of the tranquillity of Ireland and the security of the British Empire ? He would not at the present moment allude to any of the specific measures which had been mentioned as being hi contemplation. The Right Hon. Baronet had addressed the House in an able and elaborate speech, as all his speeches were, find he was happy to be able to add hi s epiniop t that it possessed one quality which he wished his speeches had possessed when the Right Hon. Baronet sat on these benches.—(Loud cheers.) It possessed the quality of being remarkably calm and temperate.—(Cheers.) lie must do the Right H on , Gentleman the credit of saying that, speaking under,the sense of that awful responsibility which rested upon him as the particular Minister. responsible for the peace of Ireland, lie had in his speech carefully avoided any expression that could tend to increase the present irri t t h a t h e wished that at t he time when the Right lion. t 111.09 or excite ang r y feelings. He could only' say tb whom lie acted, sat on these, obi — he t e had always t used 14nguage temp er.a a t t those t G li e n n o t p e m p o a s n i t , e ge t illeinldbetint"clisie Wl es (Loud h ell ua gentlemen had h then feared that the lang the minds of the Irish eq used had sunk top (ll into e Y people to be soon forgotten . ( Cheers.) The speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman consisted of two parts ; the first was -a defence of -the —Government against the charges preferred against it with-reference to the re cent measures adopted in Ireland. The second part related to the future policy of the Government with re gard to that country. Upon the first of theSe subjects h should w;sh to address, in the first instance, a few observations to the house. The Eight Hon. Gentleman feeling, probably, that the administratiOn of justice was a subject in which the House and the country felt a d (.p and sensitive interest, and feeling the force of the observations made in that House and out of it with re- ~aid to certain proceedings in the late trials Which had taken place in Ireland, addressed himself, in the first in stance, to a defence of the Government with respect to the exclusion of all Catholics from the jury by which the traversers, in the Court of Queen's _Bench in Ireland, were lately tried. Upon that subject he was bound to state, taking up the question at that point at which the Crown Solicitor found himself in the room and called on to strike that jury, he was not prepared to say that he, acting on the part of the Government, could have adopted. any other course.—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches. He would say nothing at the present moment as to the policy of the Government instituting these prosecutions, which necessarily involved such a result. — (Loud cheers.) That wits a point for future and separate consideration, but he was prepared to say this, that if, as seemed admitted, in eight out of ten Roman Catholics found in a list of forty-eight, one was a member of the Repeal Association, and if of the re maining two one of them, though not a member of the Association, was stated or believed at the time to have signed a requisition, calling one of those multitu dinous meetings which was to be held at Tara — the proceedings of which were to furnish a portion of the evidence for the prosecution, he was bound to say that with regard to nine out of the ten the Crown. Soli citor would not have discharged his duty had he allowed them to remain on the jury. —(Cheers.) With regard to the others, 'the Right Hon, Gentleman stated, and as he pledged his own word to the fact, he was willing to give credit to the statement they were believed to be Protestants, and for reasons known to the Government, but which reasons the Right Hon. Gentleman did not feel called on to disclose; they were struck off the list quite irrespective of their being Catholics or Protes tants. But if this were a statement of facts, what were they to say of the admission it-involved of the state of Ireland ?—(Cheers.) A great State prosecution was in stituted after months of deliberation and observation by the Government, with all the solemnity which must at tend such a proceeding ; the eyes of all England, Scot land, and Europe, being fixed upon it, and it being one by which the integrity of the empire might be' affected. The trial took place in the metropolis of a country of which seven-,eighths of the inhabitants were Roman Catholics, and not . one Catholic could be found in the metropolis of that country, whose sympa thies were not enlisted on the side of the traversers—on the side of the men whose crime they were called on to investigate.—(Loud cheers.) They were not excluded from the jury because they were Catholics, but because they were supposed to have feelings in common with the accused. Such a defence might be a good one for an attorney in a petty case, but it proved here that the indictment was not, against O'Connell and the other tra versers, but against the whole Catholic population of the country.—(Loud cheering) The Right Hon. Gen tleman stated that the majesty of the law had been triumphant, and he gave the Government credit for the fact, that they were not then asking for military law for the people, or for a Coercion Act. If they had been asked for such measures, he should have been among their opponents. He was, therefore, bound to give them credit for not taking such a course; but did not the Right Hon. Gentleman know that under the forms of law great injustice must be committed ? Did he not know that the moral effect of a verdict did not consist in an adherence to the rigid forms of law, and that there were circumstances in which the moral effect of a verdict was lost by the apparent partiality of the tribunal before which the case was tried?—(Loud cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had illustrated his case last night, by reference to some actions which might be brought against the master of a pack of hounds for trespass, or the case of an individual against whom a lay impropriator of tithes might bring an action for the recovery of the amount of his tithes. He (Sir James Graham) had asked if such a person could be blamed for striking off the jury list every person who was a lay impropriator of tithes. But let him (Sir. George Grey) ask the Right Hon. Gentleman whether, if the action was tried under circumstances in which, notwithstanding that the defendant had struck off those lay impropriU; tors from the jury list, the jury nevertheless were at last composed exclusively of lay impropriators—whether he, for a moment] believed that, however the verdict might be according to the evidence—hOwever picion the jury might be in their indidvidual capacity, or far from auy reproach of wrong doing—that that verdict would carry with it the moral weight it ought, or be looked on as a fair decision of the case that had been submitted to them? But he would not stop to discuss that illustration, or the other case put by the Right Hon. Gentleman, of a trumpery action of trespass against a master of hounds. A skilful attorney in such a case might certainly take every pettifogging advan • tage—(Cheers)—which his knowledge of the law should enable him to do, and perhaps he would not do his duty to his client unless lie did so ; but let them remember that this was a great State trial, and that then they were engaged in a solemn case of the administration of criminal justice. The Government was proceeding against traversers who were for the most part Catholics, on their trial on a charge of the most important nature, to be adjudicated upon in a country where party feeling and religious animosity ran higher than in any other country on the face of the earth, and yet the jury who tried them was composed of men opposed to them in religious opinion, and it might he supposed diametrically adverse to them in political creed. Then as to the course which the Government had pursued With regard to tho great meetings Which were held from time to time, ending with the prodama tion against the meeting at Clontarf.—(Hear, hear.) Through a great length of time the Government re mained passive spectators of those meetings.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord had approved, as no doubt the House would approve, of the sending troops from time to time to maintain the public security. But they looked on at those multitudinous meetings, which the Right Hon. Gentleman said long before the meeting at Clontarf were held with military array, andimder all the circumstances which he so forcibly detailed, and which were socalculated to inspire terror and great alarm—they looked on at those meetings without issuing a single pioclamation to warn those deluded victims of agitation—(as the Right Hon. Gentleman styled them)—of the consequences of attend ing those. meetings.—(Hear, hear.) That • conduct on the part of the Government led them to suppose that, so long as they preserved the peace unbroken-;;-while no act of violence was committed—while they kept within the law—the Government would not interfere with the meetings.- 7 (Hear, hear.) The people thought that they were doing, everything consistent with the law.—(Hear,hear.) Such was the course (according to the. Right on. Gentleman) up to the eventful week, beginning on the 6th of October—(Hear, hear)—and the people thought that nothing else would be done with respect to the meeting at Clontarf, and those other five or six meetings which the Right Hon. Gentleman told them were announced to be held—(Hear, hear) — had not, fortunately for the Government, a sort of military proclamation been transmitted to London on the 29th of September.—(Loud cheering.) It was clear that there had been. no intention of inter fering with that meeting had not what had been called the military proclamation appeared, containing the magic words " half distance," " muster," and " troops." —(Cheers and laughter.) The Lerd Lieutenant and the Lord Chancellor of Ireland were absent from their posts. It was clear, therefore, that nothing like any interruption with this series of meetings had been contemplated, and that the Clontarf meeting would not have been inter rupted had it not been for this dispatch, which had been sent to the Right Hon. Gentleman. The Right Hon. Gentleman, it appeared, had immediately summoned to the Home-office the law officers of the Crown, the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, and the Lord Chancellor of Ireland. That meeting had been held at the Home-office on Mon day, and although the Right Hon.,Gentleman had not told them what had taken place at that meeting; he presumed that there had been discussion, and also some disagree ment, for they had come to no decision, but had ad journed to Tuesday ; and notwithstanding the serious objections which many Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite had to adjourned debates in the House of Commons, they had again adjourned that meeting from Tuesday to Wednesday. Then it appeared . that another pro clamation had arrived—the amended proclamation, relating to the Clontarf meeting ; and the Right Hon. .Gentleman and the Lord Lieutenant, and Lord Chan cellor of Ireland, and the Attorney and Solicitor-Gene rals, were employed during the whole of the Tuesday a nd the Wednesday, in comparing the verbal and literal dis crepancies between the two proclamations, and whether the alteration of " troops," into " goups," and the sub stitution of " ward," for . wardens,'` would not make it too hazardous for them to attempt to stop the Clontarf meeting.—(Cheers.) If they had been cer tain that the repeal proclamation had emanated from Mr. O'Connell and the Repeal Association, it appeared that they would have had no hesitation on the subject, but an amended copy had come over, which, in their opinion, had rendered it extremely hazardous to in terfere with the meeting at Clontarf. The discussion at the Home-office ended without coming to any decision. It was determined that the Lord-Lieutenant and the Lord Chancellor of Ireland should proceed to Ireland on the Thursday. He would ask why they had not been instantly sent off if the Govern ment had determined on taking any steps with regard to that meeting ? Why was a moment lost in making arrangements after it had been determined to put a stop to the agitation ; and why was there an instant of delay in warning the people not to attend that meeting ?—(Cheers.) He did not know whether the Noble Lord concurred in the strictness with which the observance of the Wednesday was enforced in another place.—(Cheers and laughter.) It appeared that if a Wednesday intervened when an interesting de. bate was adjourned, that that debate must be ad journed over the Wednesday, in order not to interfere with the usual mode of spending that day in social enjoyment.—(Cheers and laughter.) On Thursday it appeared that the Lord Lieutenant and the Lord Chancellor of Ireland had quitted London, but what had they carried with thein.—(Cheers and laugh ter.) It might have been supposed that they would have carried with them a proclamation to have been issued on the instant of their landing, a proclamation which had been agreed upon previously by the Minis ters of the Crowu assembled at the Home-office, warn ing the people of Ireland against attending that meet ing.—(Cheers.) They were, however, charged with no proclamation. Nol They were only charged with certain fixed principles upon which said the Right Hon. Gentleman, they were desired to act.—(Laughter.) It appeared flint the Lord Lieutenant and the Chancellor, charged with those ft g a prinpiples—(Cheers and laugh ter) —had arrived in Ireland on the Eriday. A Privy THE , . raw, ii 0 N 11_ ON, TII URSDAY .E VENTI NG, rrßßtT A n v 15, 1844, Council was summoned, mid a proclamation was - drawn up. It appeared that the greatest care was required ii, the wording it, such was the responsibility under which they felt that they were acting ; so that time was de layed, and it was not until four o'clock on the Saturday afternoon, that the proclamation was posted upon the walls of Dublin and its neighbourhood.—(Cheers.) It the Right Hon. Gentleman had been desirous of showing that the existence of such oflicers as a Lord Lieutenant and a business,Ct e h c i eofu idnSecretaryexposingohav e of donelreland i n Governmentson l o y r a e s n a m u p h t o a tri obstructionemphatically publicdelay,y andthan t t to he had done by a relation of these proceedings.—(Hear. hear.) Ile was surprised, after listening to that state-, ment of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that among the' remedial measures which• the Government intended to propose, they did not include the abolition of the office of Lord Lieutenant and the appointment of a Secretary for Ireland to communicate directly with the Home• office.—(Loud cheers.) If that had been the case on the hmi p la r ie e gvd s ehj e at n atdi t el yd o or c ne c w.s a si s etG i hd o e n nht , itill c men o n t it i sn l a d ens et t rrl h i.ue, e ote r ant e ril instructions oabrr a ye. drtcheooleuambn communicated Monday's,l t b n u ai t noad t tl a dv t op u t oi nhls would to take measures to put a stop to the meeting?— (Cheers.) The Government had reason to congratulate themselves on their fortunate escape from the fear ful responsibility which they had incurred. — (Loud cheering.) The Right llon. Gentleman himself could not deny that they had run, with regard to that Clontarf meeting a fearful risk of the delay which had occurred in posting that notice.—(lmmense cheering.) When they considered the immense num ber of persons who on the Saturday wore flocking to that multitudinous meeting, for so the Right Hon. Gentleman in expatiating on the necessity for prevent ing it had properly described it, who could doubt but that they had run great risk in consequence of the de lay, of Clontarf becoming the scone, not of a peaceable repeal meeting, but of strife, of tumult, of disorder, of bloodshed ?—(Loud cheers.) They had run the risk of kindling the flame of civil war--(Loud cheers}—and had such unfortunately been the case, fearful would have been the responsibility which would have devolved upon her Majesty's Government.—(Loud cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had admitted that the exertions of Mr. O'Connell, added to those of the Government, had succeeded in preventing the holding of the Clontart meeting; that by his aid the appalling catastrophe of. which Clontarf might have been the scene had been averted.—(Loud cheers.) After that admission he thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman had pressed rather hardly upon Mr. O'Connell when he had stated, in referring to those exertions of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that his exertions to maintain the peace at those meetings had been produced against him as evi dence to prove the existence of the conspiracy for which he had been indicted.—(Cheers and counter-cheers.) Ile thought that after the admission which the Right Hon. Gentleman had made, that that reflection on. Mr. O'Connell might have been spared.—(Cheers.) He knew that such an allegation had been made by those who conducted the prosecution, but where was the proof of it? That fact had not been substantiated by the evi dence submitted to the jury • and he thought that, con sidering the situation in which the lion. and Learned Gentleman now stood, such an attack upon him was unjust and unfair.—(Loud cheers.) With regard to the future policy of the Government, the right Honourable Gentleman had stated certain measures which it was the intention of the Government to submit to that House. With regard to those measures, so far as lie understood their character, he should give them his support.—(Cheers.) They were, as he understood, the extension of the franchise in the counties, the re moval from voters in the boroughs of the necessity for paying certain taxes before they could exercise the franchise, the appointment of the landlord and tenant commission, and the intended augmentation of the grant for the purposes of education.--(Cheers.) He believed that all these measures had a tendency to do good ; but, whether taken separately or taken toge ther, they were net in the least degree adequate to meet the requirements of the present crisis. He would ask if they thought that a trifling extension of the county franchise, that the removal of the necessity for the pay ment of rates and taxes by the borough voters, or oven the proposed augmentation of the grant for the purposes of education—and while on that subject he would ex press a hope that the proposal of that grant would not give occasion to the lion. Gentlemen who sat behind the Treasury Benches, and some of whom were con nected with the Government, to indulge in fresh attacks upon their Catholic fellow-subjects—(Loud cheers)—or that the appointment, by the Crown, of a landlord and tenant commission, which, however industrious and dili • gent it might be, could not present any Report till nearly the close of the session,—could they imagine that any, or all,of,theso measures, would be sufficient to allay the excitement existing in Ireland, or to win back the affec tions of the Catholic population ?—(Cheers.) These were not sufficient to remedy the evils existing in Ire land, or to bring back society in that country to a state of peace and tranquillity.—(Cheers.) They were utterly inadequate to the occasion.—(Loud cheers.) There was one important point which had been touched upon by the Noble Lord—he meant the state of the Irish Church. —(Cheers.) Was not that a grievance which was deeply felt by the Irish Catholics ? What hope could the Catholic population of Ireland—the millions who inhabited that country—what hope could they entertain of redress being granted for their grievances, while it was determined to continue this grievance ?—(Cheers.) In considering that subject, it was impossible for any one who knew anything of the feelings of human nature, not to be aware that they must be considered as a great grievance by the Irish people—(Loud cheers) —not so much in a money point of view, as in its operation upon the feelings of the Irish people.—(Cheers.) It would be recollected that seven-eighths of the people of Ireland were Raman Catholics, and the other eighth were divided between Presbyterians and Protestants ; and that the Established Church was kept up , exclu sively for that eighth portion. That was a grievance that could hardly be exaggerated—it was a grievance which demanded - a speedy redress, and should be con sidered irrespective of all party opinion. He believed the Right Hon. Gentleman had said that great difficul ties surrounded the question, as if any difficulty should deter him from entering into the consideration of it. Was it sufficient for a Minister of the Crown to come forward on a great ques tion like that of the Irish Church, and tell that House that it was surrounded by difficulties, and, there fore, they did not mean to change the present system, nor to adopt any measure o f conc ili a ti on ? Upon this subject he (Sir G. Grey) must say that he had a very strong feeling, and he was sure, that if any lion. Mem ber were to be placed in the position of the people of Ireland, he would feel strongly on the subject.--(Hear, hear.) Nothing had struck him with more apprehen sion than the expression of the Right Hon. Baronet, that the consideration of that question was not to be at all entered into. The Right Honourable Gentleman said that the Protestant Church Establishment had been settled by the Reformation, and g uaranteed by the Act of Settlement an d by the Union. He did not yield to the Right Hon. Gentleman in respect for the Protestant Church E s t a bli s hment, nor in the d e sire that its principles sh ou ld b e prom ulgated ; but at the same time he could not consen t th a t the Protestant Church should be made an instrument of oppression. He repeated, that it was most unjustifiable that the great body of the Irish people should b e compelled to supp ort the establishment of a Church to the tenets of which they did not subscribe. The history of the Esta blished Church in Ireland would show that it had been the cause o f en dless disturbances and bitterness which it was hardly possible to exaggerate.—(Hear, hea r .) H e w as not to be silenced by quotations from th e p ag es of " Hansa rd . Those pages would like w i se f urnis h the sentiments of " Sir Robert Peel on the qu es ti on o f Catholic Emancipa tion, which were quite a s o p pose d to the success of that measure as any of the exp resse d sen timents of the R i g ht [lon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department or the First:Lord of the Treasury, were now against the modification of the Church Establishment. He feared the discontent at present preva ili n g inlreland would be greatly increased by the declaration on the part of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary of State for the Home Department, of his time, d e termination to maintain the present Church Establishment. H was beset with difficulty ; but, at the same t, he _ thought that if there was an agreement _ both sides both Church re peated, he believed that the question o f the Irish common consent of the leading men sides of the House to en t e r into a fal?.;full, would do a great deal to strengthen the bond of union between and impartial consideration of the q uestion the two countries , It would give to the peop le of Ire land some confidence in tho Imperial Parliam ent, and render less their anxiety for a local legislature. He would ask in what position had the Right Hon. G entle man placed those Irish Mem bers who had ke p t aloof from the repeal agitation , a nd who had told their con stituents that they believed the Imperial Parliament would do them justice ? What satisfactory reply could they give to the inquiries of their constituents ? After the declaration of the Right Honourable Gentleman must they not abando n almost alto g ether the ho p e that the Imperial Par liament would do them j ustice.— (Hear, hear.) Mu st the y not wish for a local than Legislature more ardently _before ?Ho hoped the House would adopt his opinions ; and, upon mature consideration. see the necessity of entering into the views of the Noble Lord. He thought that if there was an honest and determined effort made to remodel the Church Establishment, it would do a great deal towards remedying the present state of excitement and discon tent which at present prevailed amongst the Catholic people of Ireland. T hat was the onl y wa y in which th e demand for repeal co uld be properl y subdued. Th a t was the way to teach the Irish people that it was pos sible for them to obtain justice from the Imperial Par meut. He did not say that unreasonable expectations had not been entertained, and that unreasonable demands had not been made. But was it hy, the question of the rea sonable—wasre- venues it fair--was it just—th a t , th e H ouse should peremptorily refuse to in q uire i n t o the subject, merely becau se it was of a religious nature ?—( of. litheear,lhreisae W Church had nothing whatever to do with religion.--(Hear, hea r.) The majority of the Irish people, he re p eated, were .Cathol j ics, and the House should deal With them as they found them. If the people of that country were possessed of the com monest feelings of huma n nature it was impossible that they should not be filled with bitter disappointment and regret at the intentions of the Government, as expressed by the Right Hon. Gentlenian in the language of warn ing,to consider what must be the disposition of the Irish peoople, and what must be the consequence of a perse vering and determined resistance to ameliorate the griev ances which pressed upon them.—(Hear, hear.) The union, to be preserved, must be maintained on the prin ciple of equality, and on that only. That principle could not, be acted upon so long as the Church Establishment was maintained in its present position. With reference to the steps which should be taken to.render the union complete, he would refer to the sentiments, which had been lately Vubli§ ll o .diniiurv4 Review, of one .of the most eminent of living authors—LordJeffrey. He pointed out, in - the language of truth, the attempts which had been made to dissolve the union, and, advert ing to the struggles between the two countries, said that of course it would terminate in favour of the superior power. But such a victory would be to England the source of unspeakable calamity, and the signal of her weakness and insecurity. Lord Jeffrey further said that the Govern ment was bound to mak e ever y p o s s ibl e sa c rifice to diminish the grievances which afflicted Ireland—to do justice, and to show kindness to a people whom it was their! interest as well as their duty to cherish and pro tect.,--(Hear, hear.) The union, his Lordship said, must be made complete, or it would be broken in pieces and thrown in their faces.—(Hear, hear.) He asked whether m l make s in nep thein that advance Englund had done all that it c ould do to avert the im pending calamity, and wh e th er it wou ld no t b e p ru d e nt inin be the suggested,course Lord o it t‘notas conciliation , House to e r e‘ h . andy measuresacquiesce a motionof he Noble shouldt hut the House should show a sympathy with the Irish people.—(Hear, hear.) That people wanted to see a Goqrnment in which they could place confidence. — (Ironical cheers from a Member on the Ministerial benches.) The Hon. Gentleman cheered, but in order to cement the union a-disposition should be evinced to conciliate the feelings of the people.—(Hear, hear.) What was the feeling in Ireland towards the present dovernment ? Need he answer ? Measures good in theniselves had been suggested, but the Irish people viewed those measure.; with distrust—they viewed their acts with reference to their past and present policy. What was' the position they occupied with respect to Ireland ? Their professions were smooth as oil, but their practice • sharp as the sword.—(Cheers.) He could not forget the language they used when sitting on the Opposition benches. They now looked upon Ireland, and be held the fruits of Cieir past opposition.—(Hear, hear.) They_ had chosen Ireland as the battle-field on which they enlisted the feelings and prejudices of the English people, with a view to overthrow the former Govern ment—(Hear, hear) —they remembered the conduct of the Members of the present Administration on the appro • portion clauses, and their refusal then as now to ' depart from the existing ecclesiastical system. They remembered their conduct with respect to the Municipal Corporation Act, and their determined op position to the municipal franchise—an opposition grounded on the belief that a large portion of the Roinan Catholic population would be thereby endowed with increased privileges.—(Laughter.) They remem bered, when that Bill had passed through that House, the resistance which if met, through the agency of those with whom- they were in daily communication, and who sat in the: same Cabinet with them.—(Hear, heir.) They remembered their conduct on the Regis tration Act. The Noble Lord (Lord Stanley) smiled ; he' hoped he would never find it a subject for Later regret and deep remorse.(Hear, hear.) He now told them with all sincerity that, in order to prove the reality of their repentance, they must retrace with wider steps, and give more ample evidence than those declarations in the appointment of a Landlord and Tenant Commission and some improvements in the educational system.—(Hear, hear.) Something else was necessary to convince the Irish people, to enlist their affections, and to win back their confidence—to make the union a union of strength and of affection. The present moment, when, in the language of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the law had been triumphant, was not the least favourable for an advance in measures of con ciliation.—(Hear, hear.) The Irish people would look with a favourable eye on a disposition on the part of the Imperial Parliament to enter into a consideration of their wrongs. Such a step might be the means of uniting them cordially with the people of England. At least there were grounds for entertaining such an opinion, and• no opportunity should be lost for attaining so desirable a consummation.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) For these reasons, and because be considered that the present crisis imperatively demanded . the interposition of the House of Commons for the amelioration of Irish grievances, and the allaying of the excitement which at present prevailed in that country, he would give his cordial assent to the motion of the Noble Lord.—(Loud and prolonged cheering.) Lord ELIOT said; that his Right Hon. Friend, the Secretary for the Home Department, had so ably vindi cated every act of the executive Government, that he might well content himself with resting the vindication of the Government upon his statements, but the situation which he held would not allow him to remain silent on this debate. The Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had commenced his speech by adverting to a statement made by his Right Hon. Friend, regarding the military occupation of Ireland. His Right Hon. Friend had drawn a comparison between the years 1844 and 1834 ; and shown that there was smaller military force at present in Ireland than before the accession of the present Ministry to office. In Sep tember, 1841, to November, 1843, there was a diminu tion to the extent of four battalions of infantry, and one regiment of cavalry; surely that showed no disposition on the part of the present Government to take military possession of Ireland. But this he would say, that what ever amount of military force was necessary for the se curity of life and property in Ireland, should be placed in that country. The state of Ireland at this moment was not worse, he was bound to suppose, than when the Coercion Bill was brought forward by the Noble Lord, a measure which the Right Hon. Gentleman said he would not support if it were brought forward by the present Government. What was really the motion of the Noble Lord? Did he ask for a Committee to suggest measures for the amelioration of the evils of which he com plained ? Was it not rather a motion, having for its object, the taking the reins out of the hands of the pre sent Government and placing them in the hands of the Government to which he belonged? The Right Hon. Gentleman and the Hon. Member for Waterford spoke in vague and general terms of the grievances of Ireland, hut they did not propose a remedy. They talked of the Church Establishment, and said it was not a question of money ; but if it did not refer to the revenues of that Church to what did the proposed change refer ? lie now came to the question of the issuing of the proclama tion. The Noble Lord then read the conclusion of the Solicitor-General's address to the jury on the State trials, justifying the course pursued by the Government on the ground that a meeting per se did not constitute an offence, but that it was the frequency of those meet ings and their general tendency which called upon the Government to interfere. The Noble Lord then referred to the exclusion of Catholics from the jury, and read the declaration of the Crown solicitor, which affirmed that i one of the two Catholics rejected, although not a member of the Repeal Association, had, in his belief, signed the Carlow repeal requisition, and that the other be believed to have been a Protestant. Her Majesty's Government had been advised by the Law Officers of the Crown that this was a dangerous confederacy—dangerous to the peace of Ireland ; but that it was their duty not to interfere till it bad deve loped itself. The Right Hon. Gentleman talked of the peaceable state of Ireland. He had read to the House a letter which he had received from a Magistrate, and which described the alarm which was created in the minds of the Protestants, and stated that the well-dis posed Catholics were reluctantly obliged to join the ranks of the repealers. An Hon. MEMBER—Who wrote the letter ? Lord ELIOT said he had no - objection to name the gentleman who wrote it. It was written by Mr. Saunderson a Magistrate of the county of Cavan, who had been formerly a Member of that House.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord then read the letter, which stated that there were no soldiers in Cavan ; that the Protestants were preparing their arms in expectation of an outbreak; that if a simultaneous movement took place they would not be prepared to make any resistance, except a few Protestants, who were preparing for a conflict. An Rom. MEMBElt—'What is the date of that letter ? Lord ELIOT—It is dated the sth of June, 1843. (Opposition. cheers.) But military forces were being then introduced into the country. He would take that opportunity of saying that the Protestants of the north of Ireland were entitled to the thanks of the Government for their conduct. They heard the Roman Catholic peasantry using expressions which were calculated to arouse the most serious apprehensions. They believed that an insurrection was preparing, but not to create jealousy. Among those from whom they apprehended danger they maintained a perfectly passive attitude, which did them the greatest honour. They were accus tomed to assemble on certain days, lout they at once yielded obedience to the law when the law forbade those meetings ; and they could not see the difference between their meeting with Orange flags and the repealers meet ing with green flags. He now returned to the Clontarf meeting. There were circumstances attomd ing that meeting which tended to give it an illegal character. The Lord Lieutenant had been absent in England for the benefit of his health, and the Lord Chan cellor was exhausted from the continual attendance in his Court,'to which no person who ever satin it brought higher ornaments. He also was absent. The placard which had been read last night by his Right Hon. Friend, was issued, and such were the circumstances attending the meeting, that he was prepared to venture to prohibit it on his own responsibility. He stated 'his views on the subject, and his Right Hon. Friend near him had con curred with him in the views he took of the subject. He believed it was then agreed that the proclamition should be issued. It arrived on the 4th day of October, the day on which his Noble Friend left London.' He left on Thursday, with the Chancellor, and arrived in Dublin on Friday. The Right Hon. Gentleman ac cused them of having a proclamation ready cut and dry. It was left to the discretion of the Irish Govern ment to act as circumstances might point out, avid when the Lord-Lieutenant arrived they all agreed that the meeting should be prevented. (Hear, hear) It had been said that Chief Baron Brady and Mr. Blake, two gentlemen he was proud to call friends, were not summoned, and that this was an insult to the Ro man Catholics of Ireland. That observation had been made by Mr. Shell in his speech in Court, but he (Lord Eliot) believed that the fact was, that Chief Baron Brady was a Protestant, and he (Lord Eliot) took upon himself the blame of not summoning those individuals. He considered that it was an act of the Executive Go vernment, for which they were responsible, and he did not think that it would be delicate to ask the political opponents of the Government to be present at the coun cil, where they would be in a small minority. Even if they dissented from the views of the Government, which he was not sure they would do, their dissent would not be recorded, and it could only be known that they did so through paragraphs in the newspapers. But it was from a feeling of delicacy that they were not summoned. —(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the risk which was incurred in not giving more time for the sutpression of the Clontarf meeting. Now be (Lord Eliot) believed that the people did not assemble at the place of meeting until after mass, and from an early hour the whole of the ground was occupied by an over whelming military force, and no mass of unarmed in dividuals would have ventured to encounter such a force. Information had been sent of the proclamation to all the police-stations, and he believed Oat few persons Were present 14 the meeting before the day on which it Was to take place, except, perhaps, au inconsiderable number. But from the display of military Yor - ce. he be lieved that no collision would be possible. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that the me.eting . was not legal, but nothing could have been easier for Mr. O'Connell than to try that question by going with a few persons to the place of meeting and bringing an action of trespass against those who prevented them from meeting. The Noble Lord proposed to go into Committee of the whole House, and then to propound resolutions condemnatory of the conduct of the present Government, but the Noble Lord cautiously abstained from propounding any reme dies except to increase the number of stipendiary magis trates. His Right Hon. Friend gave that Noble Lord such a lesson on this subject, that he believed he would not be in a hurry to propose such a recipe again.— (Cheers.) The Noble Lord spoke of the Established Church of Ireland, which he would break up into a tripartite division to make provision for the three Churches in Ireland, Catholic, Protestant, and Presby terian. But the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Waterford, repudiated any idea of making a 'State pro vision for the Roman Catholic Church. It was not worth while therefore discussing the subject, because the only object the Government could have in view in proposing such a State provision for the Catholic clergy would be to secure their good will and affections; and if they were told by Roman Catholics it would be injurious to their religion, it would be al together hopeless to attempt such a proposal. Thep. they came to the question, were they to subtract any portion of the revenues of.the Protestant Church. In his speech the Hon. Gentleman disclaimed any such intention ; he said it was not a question of money. Well, then, it must be the actual existence of the Established Church which was concerned ; and though he believed th a t th e great b oy of Roman Catholics would adhere to the declarations which they had made on this subject, yet he believed that there were men, there were agitators, in Ireland, who would not be satisfied with any measure, short of the actual subversion of the Protestant Church.—(Hear, hear.) He did not believe that that House, or any House which might be assembled, would consent to the subversion of the Protestant' Church in Ireland. He did not know what might now be the opinions of the Noble Lord opposite ; but when he introduced the Church Temporalities Bill, be stated that he did so with a view rather of strengthening the Protestant Church ; and, therefore, though he might have been disposed to take a portion of its funds, as in the case of the Appro priation Bill, for other.purposes, he would not be disposed altogether to subvert the Establishment. The object in that case was to apply a certain Jart to general educa cation, and not to provide for the religious education of the people. Some references had been made to the de clarations that he (Lord Eliot) had formerly made in that House. To those declarations he adhered, both in their letter and in their spirit.—(Hear, hear.) He did not remember the very words, but they simply imported that the Government, of which he had become a member, would conduct the Government of Ireland in a spirit of impartiality. Now, notwithstanding all the aspersions which had been cast upon her Majesty's Government, he was quite unable to fix on any single act which required defence from him. The Government had been in power two years and a half, and during that time he had not heard any imputation except that which his Hon. Friend had expressed last night in reference to the jury, and, generally speaking, their exercise of Crown patron age; and he presumed-the Right Hon. Gentlemen oppo site were not so ignorant of the Constitution of this country as to imagine that her Majesty's Government were bound to dispense that only to their'political oppo nents. Now it did so happen, unfortunately, that a very large majority in the liberal professions in Ireland be longed to the Established Church. Take the instance of Queen's counsel. The Queen's counsel were about sixty or seventy in number. How many Roman Catho lic Queen's counsel were there ? Twelve. Had it been said by any man in that House, or in Ireland, that either the late Lord Chancellor, Lord Plunket, or the present Lord Chancellor, had excluded from the honour of the silk gown any man whose pro ' fessional standing entitled him to it ?—(Hear, hear.) He denied that that had ever been the case. Eight Queen's counsel were employed by the traversers. It was to be presumed that they put into requisition the services of the most eminent men at the bar of the Ro man Catholic religion, yet out of the eight Queen's counsel five were Protestants. Could there be a stronger proof that the great majority of eminent men belonging to the bar were Protestants?—(Hear, hear.) It was this circumstance which made it difficult for the Government to select for office men professing the Roman Catholic religion.—(Hear, hear,) It was painful to him to enter into these personal discussions, but he asked gentlemen opposite, who brought these grave charges against the Government, to consider in what position they were placed. He contended that the Government had con ferred honours on men who, by the common consent of - their profession, stood in the foremost ranks, and lie de fied the Hon. Gentleman to produce any instance in which any unfit orimproper man had been raised to the Bench or appointed to any office. As so much had been said of the partiality of the English Government to English men, he had thought it right to state that he believed, since their accession to power, the Government had not made a single appointment which they had reason to regret. Her Majesty's present Government had ap pointed three stipendiary magistrates—a situation of very great responsibility. They had selected an assist ant barrister for a high judicial office, and that gentle man had conciliated to himself the good-will and affections of the inhabitants of one of the most important counties in Ireland. He referred to Mr. Sergeant Howley, who had received from the whole of the magistracy, upwards of 100, from private gentlemen, from the yeomanry, and from the inhabitants at large of the county of Tipperary, an expression of satisfaction at his appointment. He believed that Mr. Sergeant Howley was the only Roman Catholic whom the Government could have selected for the honour conferred on him ; but, at the same time, he must assert that there were many gentlemen at the bar, belonging to the Protestant Church, whose claims were quite equal to those of Mr. Sergeant Howley, whose politics, though they had always been moderate, were certainly not those of the present Government. He thought he had said enough to show the House that, in the distribution of patronage, her Majesty's Go vernment had not been actuated by any exclusive or un worthy motives, but that they had endeavoured to select the men whom they thought best qualified for their re spective offices, without reference to religious distinc tions or differences.—(Hear, hear.) He did maintain, that in the whole course of their administration, the Government had been guilty of no dereliction of duty whatever, either by tampering with the administration of justice or by promoting anything like an ascendancy of one party over the other. He believed that the strictest impartiality had been observed, and he should be prepared, whenever called upon, to vindicate any of the appointments or any particular acts of the Irish Government. But it was very difficult to deal with these sweeping, vague, and general accusations. He had taxed his memory to the utmost, for instances in which some apology or explanation might be necessary, but he honestly confessed .that he could not find one. He would not indulge in vague and general expressions of attachment to Ireland, but he said unaffectedly that he had always entertained a warm desire to promote the prosperity of that country, and his official connexion with it, the kind and hospitable reception which he had met with in the country, and the friendships which he was happy to say he had contracted there, as well as all which he had seen of the country and its inhabitants, had greatly strengthened and increased that desire. He might be mistaken in the means which he thought adapted to that end, but he honestly declared that he would never be a consenting party to any measure which he did not seriously believe to be calculated to advance the welfare of the Irish nation.—(Loud cheers.) On the motion of an Hosr. MEMBER the debate was again adjourned. Mr. FERRAND then moved for a copy of the General Order of the Poor-law Commissions, which has received the sanction of the Secretary of State, that no child of seven years old shall be separated in any workhouse from its mother. Sir J. GRAHAM said that all that the Hon. Member had asked for had been placed before the House. — (Hear, hear.) It had already been printed in every shape and form.—( Hear, hear.) He must, therefore, protest against the re-printing of the Order alluded to by the Hon. Member. Mr. FERRAND said he only wished for that part of the order which related to the separation of mother and _ _ Sir J: GRAHAM said that he could have no objec tion, if the lion. Member wished it, although he could now hand him up every information, to agree to his suggestion, but in doing so he must be allowed to say that it was unnecessary.—(Hear, hear.) The motion was then negatived, and the House ad journed at Half-past Twelve o'Clock. ADVERTISEMENT. FOUR SUPPLEMENTS WITH THE " DISPATCII."-- The extraordinary demand for the Dispatch of Sunday last, Feb. 11, wins a Second Supplement, extended to 165,000 impressions, and affords the Proprietors the gratification of finding that the exertions they made to furnish their readers with a perfect History of the great National Trial are filly appreciated. To render the Supplements to the Dispatch truly acceptable to their patrons, the Proprietors have been induced, by the length of the proceedings, to alter their original plan, and instead of presenting Two Supplements, they will extend it to FOUR, thus rendering the record of this memorable trial both ample and complete. The Supplements of Feb. 4 and 11 are still on sale ; but early applications are necessary to ensure the pos session of these portions of this invaluable historical register. Orders for the Dispatch are received by every News Agent and Book seller in the kingdom ; and by Mr. Wood, at the Dispatch Office, 139, Fled-street. . _ THE SECRET PASSION.—Of the numberless illus trators of Shakspeare, no one has produced so animated a picture of the poet, and the highly picturesque age in which he flourished, as the author of those entertaining works called " The Shakspeare Novels," now completed by the publica tion of " The Secret Passion ;" a production, the character of which can be best conceived by a sununary of the chief fea tures of its extremely interesting story. 'flue author com mences with his hero in the height of his fame, from his first acquaintance with the celebrated Countess of Pembroke, with whose son he is placed in the situation of travelling tutor; an office, as is well known, held at the same period by Ben Jonson. This arrangement enables the author to introduce some extraordinary scenes and adventures in which Shak speare and the young heir of Penibroice are represented as engaged in whilst at Rome, Venice, and other Italian cities, and subsequently at the Court of Henri Quatre. The scene is then changed to the Court of James 1., and among the principal personages to be found there are the Henry Prince of Vales, Villiers Duke of Bueklugham, Lord South ampton, Sir Hugh Clopton, Sir George Carew, &c. The last portion of the story shows the poet enjoying an honourable retirement in his native town of Stratford-upon-Avon, which cannot fail of being recognised as a most delightful conclu sion to a narrative of unrivalled interest. Mr. Bright will thank the Editor of The Suu to correct the report of the presentation of a petition by him last night. It was from Glaspoy,, , , and not from the Society of Friends, as reported in all fhe papers. REPRE4ENTATION OF LANCASTER.—It is said that George Iliarton, Esq., one of the Conservative I\4ll.l.loers for the borough of Lancaster, will sliorßy vacate his seat in Parliament, and that Garnett, Esq., late High Sheriff of 413p:oily ; whp has recently pnrchased the Queer . mon estate, in the vicinity of the borotigh, will offer Wwself 44 ALL JaglAQA' § 411CCOSPL—Lirc.vool CiauPier., PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. (From the Votes and Proceenengs of the House of Commons.) WEDNESDAY, FEB. 14. HORSE RACING PENALTIES BILL. Order for second reading read ; Motion made, and Question proposed, " That the 13111 be now read a second time :" Amendment proposed, to leave out from the word " That" to the end of the Question, in order to add ;the words " a Select Committee be appointed, to inquire into the existing Statutes against Gamin. of every kind ; an d w h at pena l t i es are enac t e d by such Statures ; and whether the same, or any and what parts of such Statutes have f a ll en i nto d esuetu d e, or oug h t t o be repealed," instead thereof :"—Question put, " That this words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question:" The House divided:— MAJORITY—AYES, 112. Ackers, James Ferguson, Sir R. Mundy, E. Miller Alford, Viscount Ferrand, W. B. Murphy ' F. S . Allot, John Peter Flower, Sir James Murray, A. Antrobus, Edmund Forester, Hon G. Nicholl: J. Archdall, Captain Forster, Matthew Northland. Lord Arundil, Lord Fox, S. Lane Oswald, J ames Baillie, Colonel Fuller, A. E. Pakington, John S. Baird, William Gaskell, J. M. Palmerston. Viscouht Baring, F. I'. Gisborne, Thomas Pigot, R. David Barnard, E. G. Gladstone, W. E. Pollock, F. Barrington, Viscount Gore, Montague Power, James Beresford, Major Gore, W. R. 0. Pringle, Alexander Berkeley, Hon. C. Gore, Robert Repton, George W. Berkeley, Grantley Goulburn, Henry Ross, 1). R. Boldero 2 H. George Graham, Sir James Rushbrooke, Colonel Borthwick, Peter Granger, T. C. Scott, Hon. F. Bradshaw; Jamei Gregory, W. H. Seymour, Sir H. B. Bramston, T. W. Hamilton, J. Hans Shelburne, Earl of Broadley, Henry Herbert Hon. S. Somerset, Lord G. J Binges, W. H. L. Hinde, J . 11. Stanton, W. Henry Buckley, Edmund Hodgson, Richard Stewart, John Buller, C. Hope, 6, W. Stuart, W. Villiers Burrell, Sir Thomas liornby. John Stuart, 11. Butler. Colonel Hu,sey, Ambrose Strickland, Sir G. Butler, P. S. Hutt, %V. Sutton, Hon. H. M. Cochrane, A. Irving, John Thesiger, F. Colborne, N. R. W. Jermyn, Earl Tollemache, John Collett, W. R. Knatchbull, Sir E. Trench, Sir F. Coote, Sir C. H. Langston, J. ii. Waddington, Harry S Cripps, W. Leveson, Lord Walker, R. Darby, George Lincoln, Earl of Wall, Charles B. D'lsraeli, Benjamin Lindsay. H. 'Wortley. lion. JohUS Dodd, George Lockhart, William Yorke, Hon. E. T. Dundas, F. Eaton, Richard J. IkAllaaccknealmizaier'a,WW.F. Young, John Eliot, Lord M.Ncill, Duncan Etwall, R. Manners, Lcrd J. Evans, W. Mih res , It. M. Ferguson, Colonel Morris, David TELLERS. Wortley, J. stuart Pecl, Jotfathan MINORITY-NOES, 25. Berkeley, Captain Hindley, Charles Thornely, Thomas Blcwitt, IL Hume, Joseph Trelawny, J. S. Brocklehurst„ J. Marsland, Li Turner, E. Brothel ton, Joseph Mitch ell, T. A. Villiers, Charles P. Busfield, W. Philips, Mark Wawn, John T. Childers, J. W. Phillpotts, J. Clements, Lord Plumtidge, Captain Duncan, George Scholefield, Joshua Gill, Thomas Smith, B. Hawes, B. Stansfield, W. it TIILLIIIIB Gibson, T. M. rechell, Captain A MAN WORRIED by a LEOPARD. On Sunday morning last considerable excitement was caused in Bolton by a report that the keeper at the me nagerie and museum of the Star Inn, had been worried by one of the leopards. It appears, that the unfortunate man, whose name is Matthew Ferguson, was seen going up to the menagerie, about half-past seven o'clock on Sunday morning, by one of the waiters. About half past eight another man, who assists in cleaning the room on a Sunday morning, went into the menagerie, and was alone for a considerable time. The keeper not making his appearance he went down stairs with the in tention of looking for him, but was informed by the waiter that lie saw him come in about half-past seven ; it was now about half-past nine o'clock. The waiter went into the menagerie to look for Ferguson ; he found his jacket and hat in the usual place ' • and, his atten tion being called to the ca ges o f th e leopards, by the female jumping from a ledge at the top, he observed the unfortunate man lying dead in the den of the male leopard, and literally weltering in his blood. He imme diately gave an alarm, and Mr. Sharples and other assist ance were instantly on the spot. The leopard, which is one of the finest in England, was driven into the adjoin ing cage to the female ; and Mr. Watson, surgeon, was sent for ; but there were no signs of animation left, the poor man having evidently been dead for some time. The body was found to be dreadfully man gled about the throat, and the scalp of the head was nearly torn off. He must have been seized by the throat, and killed almost instantaneously ; for, had he given an alarm, he must have been heard by the waiter in the room below. How he came to go into the den to the leopard can only be conjectured. The animals were purchased at the sale of the Manchester Zoological Gardens, where Ferguson was their keeper; and being in the habit, for a long time, of caressing the male, it is thought that he must have gone into the cage with the intention of teaching the animal some tricks, after the fashion of Carter and Van Amburgh, as he had a whip with him, and had carefully fastened the door on going in. He had been strictly forbidden by Mr. Sharples to go into the cage when the animals were in, and he had, therefore, probably taken the opportunity of doing so clandestinely when no person was near. THE INQUEST. At twelve o'clock, on Tuesday, an inquest was held at the Star Inn, before Mr. Taylor, the borough Coroner, and a highly respectable jury, when the fol lowing evidence wrs given : John Wardle said—l am employed as a waiter by Mr. Sharples. The name of the deceased is Matthew Fer guson. He is thirty-six years of age, and has been employed by Mr. Sharples as a keeper for about twelve months. I never saw him in the leopard's cage when alive. The door is fastened by a screw at the bottom, and another at the top, and by a chain and lock. I saw him go past the bar about 4 - half-past seven o'clock on Sunday morning, and going up to the museum to his work. He did not appear to me at all the worse for liquor. I heard no noise afterwards. Sutton, who was cleaning the museum, came down stairs at about half-past nine or a quarter to ten, and said that Matthew had not come. I said he had come in about • half-past seven, and went up to look for him. I could not find him, and was coming away again, when I heard one of the leopards move, and, on turning round, saw the deceased lying on his back, in the den, with his hoed towards the top. The leopard was lying at his feet, with its head to the bars, and its legs crossed, After the leopards are fed they generally go upon the shelf. The leopard's neck was marked with blood. There was a great quantity of blood in the den. I gave an alarm, and Chas. button went up with me, and we drove the leopard into the other den. The deceased was quite dead. Mr. Watson, surgeon, was immediately sent for, and ex amined the body. I could see that he was wounded on both sides of his neck, and the scalp of his head was much torn. He was removed out of the den. He had taken the chain off, and put it upon the squirrell's cage, unloosed the screws, and, when he got in, he had screwed them up again. I have heard that the previous keeper had been in to the leopards ; and I remember Mr. Sharples forbidding bite, and saying, that if he went in again he would dismiss him. I never heard him say anything to the deceased. The whip used by the de ceased in the room was lying at the bottom of the cage. Mr. William Wolfenden, agent, said—l knew the de ceased as keeper. I heard him say, in the month of lle cember, that he had been in the cage. There was a ru mour in the town, that Mr.:Carter had been in the cage, and I asked him if it was true. He said it was not, but that he had been in himself several times, though Mr. Sharples did not know it, or he would be very angry with him. The CORONER said, it appeared to him quite un.• neccesary to go further, if the jury believed the witnesses already examined. There could not be the slightest blame to Mr. Sharpies, even if he knew that the deceased was in the habit of going into the den. The man was in his service as keeper of the animals; he had experience of such duty, and ought to be better able to judge of their temper and disposition than his employer, as he had been a keeper in the Manchester Zoological Gardens before he came to Mr. Sharpies. The probability was, that he bad an idea that it would be a profitable speculation, if he could train wild beasts to exhibit like Carter and Van Am burgh; and, like them, he must take the consequence in case of failure in such dangerous employment. It appeared that he had gone into the cage with a whip, when no one but himself was present; screwed the door fast after him ; and, if that were so, it was his own act, and their verdict must be that of ac cidental death. If a man even worked in a factory, he was subjected to accidents by the machinery ; but a man who foolishly hazarded his life by going into the cage of a wild beast, and perhaps to force it to do something foreign to its habits and its nature, did that which was likely to lead to his death. The jury unanimously agreed in the opinion of the Coroner, and immediately returned a verdict of " Ac cidental death." COURT CIRCULAR. WINDSOR, WEDNESDAY.—Her Majesty and his Royal highness Prince Albert took their accustomed early walk this morning. The Royal Family were taken an airing in the forenoon, and were also taken out in the afternoon. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent dined last even ing with her Majesty and his Royal Highness Prince Albert at the Castle. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge left town at twelve o'clock yesterday for his residence at hew. His Excellency the Turkish Ambassador transacted busi ness at the Foreign-office yesterday. Sir Robert Peel has issued invitations for a grand Parlia mentary dinner on Saturday, the 24th instant, at his resi dence in Whitehall-gardens. The Secretary-at-War transacted business yesterday at the Home-office. _ _ _ Dispatches from the Governors of Ceylon and Western Australia, and also from the Lord High Commissioner of the lonian Islands were received yesterday at the Colonial office. Sir James Graham had an interview with Sir Robert Peel yesterday. Dispatches were sent off last evening from the Colonial office for the Governor of Gibraltar. The Judicial Committee of her Majesty's most Honourable Privy Council, had a meeting yesterday in the Council Chamber, to hear an appeal from the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, " the Right Hon. John Wilson Croker r. the most Honourable Richard Seymour Conway, Marquis of Hertford, and also the Right lion. William Baron Lowther, E. Hopkinson, Esq., S. 11. de Horsey,'Esq., and R. Meyuell, Esq. " relative to a codicil of the will of the late Marquis of Hertford, dated 28th October, 1838, at Milan. Sir Charles Wetherell and Mr. Kindersley, Queen's Counsel,. were heard for the respondent. Lord Brougham, on the part of the Lords present, ap pointed Wednesday next, the 21st inst., to hear the Solicitor- General in reply.. The Lords present were the Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Queen's Bench, the Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, Lord Brougham, Lord Abinger, Lord Campbell, Mr. Baron Parke, the Vice-Chancellor Knight Bruce,• and the Judge of the AdMiralty Court. INCREASE of CitimE.---The Government are going, it is whispered, to establish a criminal court at Birmingham, Malleheater, and other large towns, in imitation of those in the ttletropolis. The assize is to be eight times in each rear, and a judge is to (reside. The number of judges is to be increased to twenty. Would it not be better to improve the condition of the people, and thus decrease the amount of crime, which. grows only as starvation grows? Strange ! that legialatem cannot see this obvious truth.--mac 211-ercury.