The Sun. — London, England, 1803-06-21 00:00:00

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Oti the Motional' Lord Et.i.tritiaitoualt, the Amendments made Lythe Comrnclns:to the Capital Offence Regulating 'were' taken into consideration, in the course of which, }Ai Lordship, i n answ e r tb a question put' by Lord Sit Er -7lttu! slated that the Bill in question did not extend to IL•land, because Ireland was to be alretied by a separate The Amendments were then read and agreed to by their I ordshiPs. ./..2 , -.lp.E.Libljti presented Copies of certain Surveys of the Coast of Scotland, &c. which, after a variety of Obser ..v4tions relative,ao the general sittijeB, from • Lord Stir ottc, in the Muse of hich he stated his opinion that Covernmenr - should give tvery pradicable a•.;sisianee to the. rojeCt or the Cakciooian Canal, and amelinr,te the condi. orate lower order of peilde in Sitothititt, particularly t4hicti tve . ry- f}r Ot.lTed to lit on the Table. LOrd FILI - 1.604, spoke shortly in explattaiton, in consl quence of seine Oints,whiihfellfrom the Noble Earl. DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY.' The Order of the Day being Moved for taking Ris Majesty's IVl.ssage on this subjs.:a into coo_ sideration, the same was accordingly read. Lard HOBART rose to move an Address to flis IVlajesty On the occasion of His most gracious Mes tage. lie oloerved it was unnecessary be shoold , take up touch of theit Lordships' tinft in order t t r induee them to agree to the' Address—for whatever difference of opinion might obtain as to the manner in which the furce recommended in His Ma, jesty's Mess* should he raised, lie was sure there Could be hat cne sentiment. as to the necess4 of having tecourse to such a meaStire. Under the 'pre sent Circumstances he airtight it incumbent on hint , to state the outlines of the plan which it was the intention of His Majesty Government to propose on the present occasiotr. It was judged necessary to place the Country in, such a situation of Defence as not only to render it:secure against every attempt which may be made by the enemy ; but to place it . in such a state as to render the success of any attempt so little likely as to deter an advirsary from making it--,-What he should. then state would certainly be no more than a mere outline of the measure it via's proposed to adotit, and ehicfly with a view to enable their- Lordships to be the better prepared for the discussion, when the details of t h e measure thould come regularly before the House.—Previnus to his stating the outlines of theplan, the Noble ecretary took occasion to assure their Lordships that every possible exertion had been made by I lis Majesty's GovernMent to increase the regular force of the country, anti to put the.same on the most re al'eflable footing. - With reaped however to the pre-, sent crisis, and the measure in contemplation, it was peen rrece., , aythat ex! r ! lo rd i ry cff , rts should be made. He was aware that such a largs l'Oice as was IIOW necessary, could not be raised, without more or less interfering with the Industry and Agricul ture of the Country ; 'but every possible regard would be had to those considerations, which, bow ever,.he thought, were but trifling, when coin pared to the magnitude of the Objects to be at tained on the other hand, He - then proceeded to state the outlines of the Plan in queStion—which being exaCtly similar to those stated by the War Minister, in the other House of Parliament, we feel the less necessity of regularly following. After staring the numbers which were raised for theTroopi of the Line and the Militia Corps, &c. in the pre. *milt, and comparing the same with what had been done on t h ose occas i ons, in the late War, he stated geuer a lly, tha t t h e a ddi t i ona l F orce proposed to be raised,.in cootemplating the Subject before the tieuse, Was 4ceotio 'Men, for Great Bijtain and the Islands in the Channel, and sO i cioci for Ireland ; than the services of the Men so raised were to be inter changeable, with respat to both Countries. With te- Bard to the consideration of officering theie Levies, it Was proposed so be done by persons havingAiniy rank, - from the Half-pay List, Officers of Fencible Corps, and also by Offio:rs who hadbeety - in the East India. 'Company's Service—frcim those sources there was, do doubt of 'procuring the men proper °Vers. It was intended that the Levies should be made on the principle of the Militia Ballots, in the different Counties, Distriels, i !sc..or by .Volunreers; as in the Militia ; that they should be enrolled for- ser- V.ice; that hey should be taken from the age of IS years to that of 45. .With respea :to 'the men in Ireland, they were to be raised on, the principle of the in that part of the kingdom, which cx: tended 'to the mode of enlisting, as well as raising by ballot'. 'lt would he provided that those who may be so disposed, - should have power to enlist into the General Service,and which4ol course, may be .a metros of increasing ,our Disposable Force. "s--After some -farther remarks upon the' nature and intended disposition of the force to be raised as above, his Lordship said, he was aware -that to this plan many.objetlionS may be urged but it %Vat one which, on the most most mature delibera tion, His Majesty's Ministers deemed to be that, under all the e ir comstances , Whi c h would .be Most 'tile-serous, and-at the sa u t e ti m e least objetlionable : 't 4 any Noble Lord was at liberty suggest any Plan which he might think more likely to answer the 4 nithe in view, or to propose any alterations !19(111111 t which . s huuld b e b roug h t f orwar d. He trusted tat' every ' its that House would support the. "Which would be introlinced,. for the purpose carrying t h e meaSure, o f wh i ch he had stated the out 1-tnes into effsit. The N(ible Secretary' of State c ' ii ? . .ocludeil by moving a correspandirig Address to LASjeity, ,on his moitgiacioUs 'Message. On the question being put; ors sentiment s DUKEtf CLARENCE :rose and delivered sentiments on the occasion at considerablelength. Iri the course of his observations, ' tee R oya l Duke al(! : that the outline of the measure just stated by the Secretary of States was less objediOnable than that :which the Public at large seethed to have had an idea of. Still what was proposed did not meet his approbation, „ but, though he . deetned himself free' to animadvert upon what was proposed, he was one of the last men-in the CoOtory to thrbn , any obstacles in the way of His Majesty's' Ministers, or say any thing that would tend to dsmp the spirit and ardour of the country. His Royal Highness here adverted to the cause the country had for going to war with Franee. Malta was our, as had been asserted by some, the cake; it arose from the o p. pICSsi VC, restless, and outrageoei spirit ef ambition which aduated the ‘ Tyrant who govern, France ; it was that which,forced this country inorthe War; it therefore became all' these who wished weil to . the constitution and independence' of these realms, to stand 'forward in their support, and to twee could he more properly appeal, on such an occasion, than to . the Members of ,that House.. S Royal Highness thin enteired into some detailed animadversions upon the proposed plan, in the cones.- of which he 'referred to the exertions which : were made by. England in her defence on the o c c a s ion o f different` Invasions, or apprehended de.cears at dirs. terent Reettels of it, History, beginning with the at , tempt at invasion by the Sparkish Monarch, in the reign 'teen I..tzabeth, and ending, with the latier 'periods of die recent War ; and obserVed, it was with great satisfaCtion they could contemplate the 'uc. cessful exertions inatie‘ b, England in it, defence, in former periods, particularly t oaler the jthistrions Princess above alluded to. He panegynsed the Mi litia Institution, and dwelt on the brilliant services they had perhe int 4.1, when they had the opportunity of displaying Iheieesllantry, while , n ottive service. .The Royal Dokelike , sise pronounced an eulogium on the gallantry' and ;liesipline - of the Land polices in general'of Great Britain. He Übseryed that the efforts of the counts)' should be in proportion to its increased population, and adverted •to some expe. clients which'he considered as likely to be serVice ableon the present occasion. He particularly awl. 'est to the situation of the Highlanders, whosevapabi s lities a, soldiers, he deemed to be superior to tit )34. o f any other Country. He disapproved of the measure as he had heard the outline stated ; als,ti:sapproveo or the principle of Defensive War, and he stated the advice which he should give the,King Gn such an . occasion: he would propose the levy of a Body er Troops who Should, be' engard to serve in any quarter, North, East,. Sonth, or West ; they should .be enlisted on the most solemn promise . of their being discharged at the end of the War, or as soon after as praetiCable : ttitis would a great disposable Force he Qbtained, and all menace~ of i n V as iou s et at &fiance. He cued not what was the naval force of France and Spain. If this force of the enemy dared to come out,, they would never. return to their own ports , and it w a s ditlicult - to - surrwhAri.„ under the tyranny of the ambit was' man who now ruled .France, might not be attempted, He should. not oppose the proposed' measure ; but l.e could not fbibear from expressing his sentiments as he had done. Earl GROSVENOR meant to trouble theirlaord.. ships very elottly : he agreed with much of what had fallen from the Royal Duke, yet •he thought the ,outline stated by the Noble Secretary worthy the serious consideration of the House. He' hoped no impediment' would be thrown by it in the way of , recruiting the troops of the line, or of keeping ep ,the militia forces. His Lordship then stated some objections which struck him as applicable to the proposed mode ; he seemed to allude to the practice of balloting, an d observed, that many of those who were drawn for the militia, were in fact represented, by others. This he regarded' as a• defect in the militia system The Noble Earl then alluded to .some , regulations 'w rich he thought Would conduce to the welfare of the services, chiefly in the view of a' speedy levying of the then, and in a way which •he considered 'as' not to interfere with the re. enticing for the line. The Earl of CARNARrON made .a number of observations on . the Conclude - if Ministers,. and on the Cause of the War. The War,' in tack; as' appeared from the Documents, .he considered - to .be for a Lease 'of Malta, for ten years, and 'afters4ards for the Island of Lampedosa.—With reaped to the points in questioos he censured the. Mode of levying by ballot, as it abtainedin the Militia, asa species of taxation, 'and a proceeding, which went to transfer the Expence from the Public Purse to the Individual, on whom it`shoUld fall.- He concluded, by observing, there 'was more danger to be 'apprehended to the Country, .froM the mal.administration of its Af. fairs . , than from the efforts of the Enemy. The Dues of CLAttspete spoke in etplanation, as did Lord 'Hon ART. 'The Earl of SUFFOLK did not rise to ,object to the Oropaied measure,' but to make a . few observa. dons as a Military .man, He thought, - as was the prattice with all the Roman Governors,' that every Commander should be furnished with a military plan of the COuntry ; there shoold,be'a general Mi.. li tar) , Plan of Defence for the Country, and methods, arranged for a quick conveyance of the Troops froin one point of attack to another, as occasion may le_ . quire e there should be also' efficient Deputy Lieu. , tenants, to at in the absenee of the Lord Lieute_ nantrt of the Counties s—above all, the Troops, shOuld be commanded by Officers of whom the Country entertained a high opinion :- he instanced Lord Gary. Ile alsoSalluded to another Noble Commander s of whose exploits he spoke. most high. ly : he was one who had given she Country Peace -they had almost torn the laureli from his brew— 'Earl Geosst e NCilt spoke to order. In consequence of which a variety of observe. ' dons:Were interchanged upon the point of Orders between the - Detexof Cwousoi, Each Giso-40. NOR, and SUFVOLK, the LORD COANCELLOR, and the Earl of CAR YtiPaiT, i the comae of which the - Noble and Learned Lord- seemed to say, what had f.ttlen from the three first S,peakeis was, strialy speaking, out of order. The Earl ufCnitt.rsLE said a few words on the same point; and Earl SUFFOLX offered a few ad. ditional observations, rather explanatory of what he had advanced in the first instance. The Earl of 1011?4, 1. - vio had,, been alluiied to by the last speaker, in terms of high estimation, said, he was veiledly satisfied with the destination his Sovereign had assigned him; and he assured the Noble Earl and the House, that he should draw his sword with as much ardent zeal, as' private in the ranks of a corps of Yeomanry,' its at the heal of an At my .: he thought the Noble E:trl perfetqlk iu order•in s hat he - had advanced. With respect the question hefOre the House, Ile slid not rise to object to the Addtess—.he should , feel it his duty' lather to smooth the way for the performance of y of Ministers as mdch as he could. At a time when the most energetie'exertions wL-e. to be 6t‘n!led from Ministers, they certainly should' have the most unshackled command, of the Resources - . of the Country ; though other plans.might sbe,stig. tested, yet they should' consider how far such cote,' duet might protra4 . . the hour of efficient exertion. With .resped to the Noble Secretary's idea of looking forward to future Parliamentary discussion, the I - louse should 'consider how I . :net:loos was the present time, not onehonr.shoulit .he lost. they were debati n g, the enemy was aeting:- . ---they will not'wait for the regular ilispersition of our force ; they will be noon us. • On the loth of March; die Me•sage came down to the 1-IJu:te, ,Ministers must at_ that time biaire seim that War was inetritahle, .and now, in the iniddie of June, they came down with the present measure that yeas s ont-the way to deal with the enemy we had to contend With. We .should be in a condition to., meet him elsewhere, thin in this country : we should meet him on' those !ands where the inhabitants groat under his tyranny anclOppression.. Since the last debate, one . of the most valtiable Possessi ,, os of the Sovereign was' wrested from him ; it was the duty, and should'. be the pride of Britons, to defend those Hereditary Do minions of a Sovereign who had.so nobly c,ltinn,rred his personal interests, 'sooner than ' derogate from the safety and honour of this country. this loss we were de l rived of an opport unity of saing against he rear of the enemy, in the event Of certain Conti. rental operations,. Heagreed With the Royal Duke as to the real cause of the War.. He deprecated the idea of a defensive system ; defensive war was a so. leci , m; it was defeat in the first instance. 'Another ,ysiein (f operation must be adopted, or we were undone— Rise, rise, ine,Conntry " You miw . !-- , or you will perish." . , • -- ilie - ITtilite - gittivrVeeerOett r .io—the,,co urke Speech not less argumentative and eloquent, to de. liver, Itis sentiments upon the very important subjea before the I-louse but his leadings -points were in of those principles which he laid,duwn in the outset. Lord MuLcizzrEcomplitm.nted thelast Speaker on the display •of patriotism and eloquence. which appeared throughout his speech : the Noble Lord then delivered ins own' sentiments:at. some length, on the suljeA before 'the House.: in the course of v.hich bespoke in approbation of the projed laid down by the Noble Seelei“ry, AS wise, and likely to he effeaii4l; he only. lamented that it was not now, in iaion,- Anti the Troops under arms. Lord llortmq:spoke in explanation. The b,arl IMITERICK agreed with the lost Speaker,. with ,respell-to the admirable and patrio., tic Speech of 'the Noble Earl who preceded - him.— His Lordship then, alter a kw - observations on the mode oflevying Men , far the 'Militia, &c. expressed his approb,itiOn of the M i t:en:ore pro Pose - by the Noble Secretary of Stare, as combining the cap. bilitier'of offensive as well 'as 'defensive Opera... tibn, . The Doke of CLAttrxCE spoke in explanation. The ,Duke of RI4...IINCIND kiivered - his sen(i, meats, in some detail,. and adverted to the lIMLITC of the System of Continental ant offensive War which, in a great degver, deNtlticd upon tircum stancel. He seemed, upon Alte whole, vit h er “ ( L Ver3C .to the proposed Plan, as tendirg too much to interfere with. the - Agricultural Concerns of the Country. He suggested. some 'Expedients which bellinught, answer the proposed end. Earl FITZWIL L I fiiM made 'some observations on the present'nlitta System, and expreised his aver 'llion fur a' War, concluded entirely on defensive principles. Lord GRENFILLE.§poke at some length. and with great ability. He. agreed with ruu6h of What . had fallen from-a Noble Earl (Mota,A) and severe.. Iy teprehended the conduct, of Ministers in not coming forveurd•sooncr, . whet ; twelve mo nths ago they must know that War would be` the alter native : their supineness anti want of energy had increased the danger ten.fold. lie contended that by a tingly and vigorous interposition, theEleetoral Dominions of Majesty might have been saved. He was in favour or•Vigerous and decisive measures —comptilitory it necessary—he.. tween the Sovereign and the Sulijeft, proteaion.and assistance and' s o pporr a vre recipr , cal ; on these principles Society was fountictl—and it W:l5 the kild. ing principle of the British Constitution. Ire agrved with those who thought that the War was not for Malta alone, After arguing some time -on these general y o rounds, his' Lordship sumat to exprrso himsc;lf iather unisvourahly as 'to the speoiiii: plan, l'Ht the Motion he 'would MA oppose, ting ing that, in t h e present crisis, the measures of Go vV"ilicnt, bhoull.fcceive any obstra.tiun Irvin him. Lord. Ho BART, the Mite of RUTLAND, and Lord Gs nrlvrt.t.s, bevcrally spoke in explanation, Lord VIEF F ALL) eontlutied the debate by saying, that in ‘koting for the Address he wished riot to be supposed' to agree that the plan of datnce pro. posed was the best that could be se!eded„ . On the cAvrary, it appeared to him the mist oppressive, ,nest provoking, and owst expensive that COI!Ilt have been chosen. He considered that if the pro.. position passed into a law, there would be a ballot for upwards of t tomoo men within three months, a;;d it the number should ever be coMplete, which he much doubted, thh the wives and families of tiaose t t 0,030 me:), num all fall on their parikbeq„ The question was then put, and the Address voted, '2f/ft dif. and ordered to be presented to His Majesty in the usual way. Their Lordships, in a Committee on the Clergy Residence Bill, truck some further amendments therein, rind the House resuming, received . pro 'Brom the'Report, ordered the Bill to he printed, and the Report to be taken into coniideration ou tVetl•teday. The New. Loan and ()Flier Bills were brought up !rum the Commt,ng, and toad .re first dint., Ater which their Lordships, ett a quarter past ten o'ciucki adjuotti,:d till to•morrow. HOUSE OF C'OMAIONS. UONDAY, JUNE 20. 17pO N reading the RepOrt of the Exeter Road. Bill, a slanse by which certitin expenses were to have been throw r i upon the CiTy ustrrArt or the Couray at law. ; was objected to, and a short debate took place, upon whiJi the Haus. divided, .For rejeding the clause, - Or" In support or it, The , Lout Bill I,ya.. read a third time and passed. KING's MESSAGE. The Secerreelear WAR moved the Order of the Day for taking, His Maje.sty's most gracieus Message of Seturd iv last intri Order being reade he moved; that the 11(In se d, 3 noW resolve itself into a Committee of the me t e Huse to consider of the seid.Messageee-Qtdered. That the Ser. Atte& do now leave the Cheit.—Or. deted. The liouse then resolved itself into a Come mittee of the whole House upon the Message ace cordiegly, Colonel STANLEY in the Chair. His Majesty's Message being read, The SECRA . TARY at if<ei. said, he was now about to call the attention of the Committee to 111$ - Majesty's.mosegravioils Mesiege t which hail brim just read, and which 'Message presented three main objeelslo the consideration of the Committee. First, for. ptoviding in the most effctlnd matter fur- the heifer Defence and - -Security of the United tom ; Secondly, : to provide a lerge disposable force for offensive. operations.; and die conceived it did . not•require much argument peeper, that in the prey sent cenjunaute it was, beeetne the bounden duty of Parliament to useevery encelee within its power muse •, ee e bkcly tp be .eireduallotverds this nowt imporeint, neteeSsioeie'thitee+teklleitille e ethee e this lietild tn. done with the least possible ditery. ;In conilderieg the. first of theSe reeizeis, namely, Proteeb !w and Security to the United Kingdom, with reference to the stare of our. defence both Navel and Mille tary at the present moment, with : reference also to' the tithed state and means, of the gaiemy, the posts that each occupied, and their Present ,condition, he could not but express his convidion, founded as• it was on'a deliberate view of the whole of this' sub., jet•l, that a considerable reinforcement was advisee able .for us to make, When he 'said this, lie must b e understood to speak with reference to the extra. ordinary circumstances which we had misfor, tune to feel; peculiar to, the, most :extraordinary time in which we live, and also to the most extra. ordinary conchal of that most, extraordinary p e r. son, wirri.was now the sole depositety of the jute mense power of France. Under other circuenstances, and -if menaced oely by the ordinary . dangers of War, such as ,we. led known. and formerly felt, he sheuld have felt no.hesitatiou in expressing his firm t opinion, teat the Forces which we now have on foot, or shall have within a short time, connected with our decided superior Naval force, would have entitled us to look with contempt on the means to be used diy the enemy egeinse us. Speaking of ordinary times, and otc.ukating upon the ordioary daogers of War, and indeed of almost any dangers.eio which this Country had been exposed until, within the last tee years, and when we had . 140,000 men raised— where we had steth a supplementarrforce as was or. tiered to be raked; it ,that .should be done—and conoeaing that with the powerful Navy which we possessed e lied readye and were now preparing, should be entitled to look with contempt on the preparations of the enemy. That in Ordinary times, and under. Ordinary circumstances, he said, should, from a view of all . -this, he jetitifLel in looking 00 the preperationi of the enemy with corie. tempt, 'and say, 'that if. they dared to make the- at. tempt they menaced, they would fan a sacrifice to' their piesereptioe-e-they would be sent to the bate OM of the sea, or blown to.pieces by the cannon .of o ur brave countrymen on -there, who would crowd most readily and e.tgerly, to receive them. Such, he would 'say, would be liis language in ordinary times and circumstances of .Wet between this country tint Fraece, but the present circumstances were, differeet, and therefore different languaee shoeld be used; and without undeterating the deo, ger to which we were exposed, we muse be prepared to meet it e although the probability - wax that only a certain number of meta_ might be thr ow n on t h e coasts di Great Britain: wed 'lreland, yet ,it wet. his • opinion that e althoeigh Such-will 'always he th e te t e uk VCII an atte i n, l it against the independence, , and eve , existence of this Country, still it was irate business to prepare as the apprehension sires touch more ele t wieg to us. He said he was justifi e d i n •• • cenctiveog that such teas likely to be the ultemate