The Sun. — London, England, 1844-07-25 00:00:00

IMPEItIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 24. The SPEAKER took the Ciair at Twelve o'clock. Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from Durham„de precating the practice of opening letters at the Post-office, and praying the House to make such practice illegal. • TURNPIKE TRUSTS (WALES) BILL. Sir J. GRAHANI moved the order of the day for going into Committee on this Bill. Mr. J..H. VIVIAN moved that it be an instruction to the Committee that they-have power to include high ways and countybridges within the provisions of the Bill. He quite agreed with the principle of this measure, which be looked upon as a great experiment, and one likely to Prove very beneficial. He thought, however, they ought to go one Ltep further, and include highways and county bridges in the operation of the Bill. Sir JAMES GRAHAM did not wish to embarrass the Committee with any . consideration as to highway rates, and the manner in which they should be levied. This Bill had received the fullest consideration of the Government, and it might be extended or .altered in Committee, if the Committee should think fit to do so. Colonel TREVOR asked if, in case en abolition of certain tolls shOuld take place in Wales; the Right lion. Gentleman would be prepared to sanction compensation being afforded to the clerks of the turnpike trusts ? . Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he was not prepared at present to say that he would sanction such compensation. 'After a few words from Mr. Ginsos CRAIG and Mr. WILLIAMS, the amendment aas negatived without a division. The. Route then went into Committee on the Bill. On clause 1 being proposed, in answer to a question from Colonel TREVOR, .Sir JAMES GRAHAM said it was not the intention 'of the Government to continue the Turnpike Trust Com • Mission beyond the 29th September in the next year. Indeed, it was with considerable reluctance that the Government continued it to that time, as the expense of the Cotrimission was defrayed out of the public purse, and not out of any local tax. The elanse was agreed to. Clause 2 was also agreed to. On clause 3 being proposed, - Mr. MACKINNON said he thought it would be bet ter to abolish - tolls altogether, and substitute a rate upon houses in its stead.—The clause was agreed to. Clauses 4 to 8 were agreed to. On clause 9, Sir J. WALSH moved an amendment, defining the debts of turnpike trusts, but it was opposed .1 1 Sir J. GRAHAM, and withdrawn, and the clause, with've - rbal amendments, was agreed to. Clauses froM 10 to 24 . were agreed to without dis mission. On the clause proposing the rate of interest in the Government Loan as 5L ss. per cent.; Mr. WILLIAMS suggested that the rate should be reduced tei 5/. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not think that the conduct of persons borrowing from the Government could be taken as an element in the calcu lation of the amount of interest they were to pay. .Colonel TREVOR would be disposed 'to agree to terms which would 'press more lightly on those who Were to-pay than those proposed in the clause under consideration,.but he did not think that money could be got on terms more favourable than those proposed by the Government.' • • After a short discussion the clause was agreed to. On clause 39 being proposed, Colonel . TREVOR said he would take that oppor- Utility of statink, in . reference to the petition he pre• . seated befinv the House went into Committee; that he trusted compensation would be granted to the clerks under the - turnpike trust. • • Sir J. GRAHAM said that, under the large powers given to the county boards, they would have the means of selecting the most meritorious clerks, and provid in g 'or them 'Under the new Act. But he should resist the Principle Of giving compensation to clerks who held their - 9tlices only during pleasure.—(Hear, hear.) • Clauses up to 53 were agreed to. On clause 53 being proposed,' 'Colonel WOOD (Brecon) said he hoped the clause Would be. 'withdrawn. The clause recognised an une'- (Dial thllage. He thought it would be bettor if the Will age was uniform. • _ _ - Colonel TREVOR thought the clause was a re lieving one. Sir J. GRAHAM said the clause, as now framed, was a relief to the toll-payers. The clause was then agreed to. Clauses up to 58 inclusive were agreed to. On clause 59 being proposed, Colonel WOOD said he had, in an earlier part of the session, suggested the propriety of exempting lime from toll. H e now h o p e d th e Committee would enter into a compromise, and fix the tolr on lime at a load. Sir JAMES GRAHAM did not think it was expe dient to reduce the toil on lime. Colonel WOOD said that lime was very extensively Used in the Principality as manure, and as throughout the country, all manure was exempt from toll, he thought it vk as unjust not to reduce the toll on lime. The motion was then negatived without a division. Mr. J. H. VIVIAN then moved that coal be place on the same footing as lime. The proposition, however, was rejected. The clause then agreed to. Clauses up to 75 inclusive were agreed to. On clause 76 being proposed, Mr. J. H. VIVIAN moved to strike out so much of the Clause as distinguished branch roads from main roads, in order to abolish such distinction. Sir • j. GRAHAM said this was a very important question,"and before he made up his opinion upon it he would be glad to hear the opinion of gentlemen who were really acquainted with the subject. Colonel TREVOR was of opinion that it • would be very beneficial to the Principality of Wales if they abo lished these side-bars, and the distinction to which the Hon. Member for Swansea (Mr. Vivian) had alluded. Dr. NICHOLL expressed th e . same opinion. Colonel WOOD supported the amendment. Mr. CRIPPS thought it wou ld b e b ene fi c i a l t o abolish the distinction between branch and main roads. Aftei a brief discussion the clause was agreed to. Clauses" p to 81 were agreed to. On clause 82 being proposed, ' Colonel WOOD said that the landlords of the Prin cipality of Wales were most willing to take on them• selves the liabilities of existing debts, but the present clause gave'power to the boards to borrow fresh money. This would subject them to new debts, and against this he, for one, should protest. Sir JAMES GRAHAM thought the House would act very improperly in buying up these* roads and pre venting them from borrowing money for the purpose of improving the roads. After some observations from Colonel WOOD, and Mr. WILLIAMS; the clause was agreed to. On clause 83 being proposed, Mr. J. H. VIVIAN moved several amendments which !ere not agreed to. The clause was afterwards agreed to with some verbal amendments. Clauses 84, 85, 86, and 87, were agreed to with some verbal amendments. • Clauses 88 and 89 were agreed to without alteration. Clause 90 was agreed to with some verbal amend °lents. The remaining clauses were then agreed to ; the Chairman reported progress, and the report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow. Mr. COW PER presented a petition from a place in * Yorkshire, in favour of the Field Gardens Bill. . Mr. P. M. STEWART presented a petition from the eneral Assembly of the Free Church of Scotland, in favour Of the Presbyterian Marriages (Ireland) Bill. NOTICES OF MOTION.—UNION WORK HOUSES. Captain . PECHELL gave notice that he would, to- ' morrow, move for a return of the union workhouses in Which mills orinachinery for the crushing of bones have been erected, tocrether with the date of their erection. - HEALTH OF TOWNS. •„. Mr. MACKINNON gave notice that he would , on Tuesday, the 30th of July, call the attention of the Ykitise to the report of the Committee on the Health of gowns, and also to the report of the Ecclesiastical Cora- I nissioners, signed by the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Bisho of London, in which it was stated that the burial of p ersons in churchyards in towns was injurious. GAMING. Mr.. BUTVERIE gave notice that he would move that a message-be sent to the House of Lords, to ask for the, I,,ekort of the Select Committee on Gaming. LusToirts FRAUDS—PRINTING OF THE RE- PORT FOR THE USE OF MEMBERS. Mr. HUME said that after he left the House last 'light a resolution had been come to that the report on t he Customs Frauds should be printed for the u se of Members only., He should like to know what was the 'neaning of those words " for the use of Members only ?" o r what would be the consequence if it fell into the hands of another person ? He only wanted to know What was the feeling of the House. Sir J. GRAHAM said it was thought more expe dient by the House that the report should be printed for th e use of. Members only. Mr. fIUME said it was altogether novel. Sir J. GRAHAM—It was by no means novel, for many Petiti ons had been printed for the use of Members only. Mr. DuNCOMBE said he'had altered the motion he n iakie last night, for the publication of the evidence , at the anggestion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, though he stated at the time that it was a most urd proposition. Suppose the report were ly tqh en his (Mr. Duncombe's) table, and a gentleman Should take hold of this blue book, was he to say, k Don't touch that, it is for the use of Members only; if ' do, I shall call a policeman ?"—(Hear, hear, and ".pghter.) He really wished to know whether they were to keep this blue book locked up •,. 3n their desks or drawers and not show to any indi "adual but some other Member of the House of Commons? when that House ceased its labours what was to become of these blue books ? They were for the use of Mew! ber g only, that was for the use of Members of that , use. Th e p u bli c wo uld be much disappointed at the u oterminatit m which the House had come to last night, - and he hoped the Government would reconsider the re !olution.and do as it had done on a former occasion, 1 1iduce th e H ouse to resc i n d i t . —(L ou d l aug hter.) 'when the evidence was first printed, it was done on C 9 ti dition that only one copy should be placed in the lib rary of the House. The Chancellor of the Exche ! %Ler had now consented to print 658 copies, for the use of lion. Members only. He now asked him to go one !!el) further, and print it for the use of the public i'mogether. He wished to know whether he should be guilty of a breach of privilege if he allowed any indivi dual to see this book, except Members of the House ° l_ Commons ? The resolution com pl e t e l y defeated object of a pill brought into that House, to enable it to sell its reports and documents. Sup pose the the newspapers should publish any portion this evidence. He supposed they would be liable to laction; but if he (Mr. Duncombe) were to publish it, ! wanted to know if he would be liable for 0 , S -wow aturdsi afficien t ver irn" lication m these ielay respect THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY M_OftNING, SULit 2 , 144, to an action for libel ? (An Hon. Member—" Yes.") Then what was the use of the publication ? There never was so absurd a proposition as that of limiting the perusal-of' the evidence. As he should not be able, perhaps, to obtain another day,,he gave notice that, on going into Committee of Ways and Means, he should ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to go one step further Lord STANLEY said, with regard to. the conse quences which would follow the publication of the evidence; by the Honourable Member himself, he had better take legal advice. This restriction of the evidence to Honourable Members themielves arose, as his Right Honourable Friend had stated, from the grievous injustice that woul I be felt gilder certain cir cumstances if the House of C . 6iiimous were by authority made ,the medium of circulating public libels. The Hon. Gentleman must, recollect the embarrassing case which oc curred some yearsa,go from the publication, by the House, of what was considered a libel. He apprehended that the newspapers would not be affected in any way, be cause, they were liable for what they published under any circumstances. The House of Commons reserved to itself the right of publication for the use of its Members, in or der to guide them in forming their opinions, but for that purpose it was not necessary to publish generally any matters reflecting on private individuals.. Sir C. NAPIER said the Noble Lord had declined giving his Hon. Friend any legal opinion. He wished to ask whether the Solicitor-General would refuse to do so? • The SOLICITOR GENERAL—Certainly not. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that the House was mono polising the property of newspapers. The conversation then dropped. HORSE SLAUGHTERING BILL. On the order of the day for the. house going into Com mittee on this Bi'l, Mr. T. DUNCOMBE objected to the Bill that it gave too much additional pOwer to the police. Mr. COWPER defended the Bill, which was called for by the accounts made public last year of the cruelties practised in the knackers' yards. All that the Bill proposed to do was, to give justices in quarter sessions a power of cancelling licenses, where cruelty was carried on in knackers'_ yards. He believed that it was a common practice, where horses were stolen, and the party had information where they were, to break the horses' legs, in order that they might state that they came there in that condition. He proposed therefore to give the police the power of inspecting these yards. He hoped, therefore, that the Honourable Gen tleman would allow the Bill to pass through its present stage. Mr. B. ESCOTT disbelieved many of the statements that had been made to the Hon. Member, because he could not see why people should be guilty of the acts of cruelty that bad been alluded to ; but supposing they were true nnder the present law parties could be punished. He hoped the Hon. Member Would wait to see whether it was intended to go on with the Bill or not. • Mr. MACKINNON thought the Hon. Member for Winchester was labouring under a mistake. The report of the Commissioners would not interfere with this Bill. His Honourable Friend the Member for Hertford was deserving of great credit, • for the manner in which he had braved public ridicule in bring ing forward this Bill, which was supported by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. Many of the Hon. Member for Finsbury's constituents belonged to that Society, and he would find it better to have their support than to curry favour with the keepers ofknackers' yards. lithe Hon. Memberwas fond of sausages' he might run the risk of having horse sausages. He could corroborate all that had been stated with regard to the cruelties practiced in knackers' yards. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that if the Hon. Member thought he was a better judge of the interests of his eonstituents than himself, he had better offer his services to them—(A laugh)---but as long as they did him the honour to entrust their interests in his hands, he must be permitted to judge for himself. It was ad mitted at last that this Bill was an emanation from the Society for the Suppression of Cruelty to Ani inals, and on that ground ' he' objected 'to it —(Hear.) There were many of those societies in this town which employed themselves in meddling with everybody's business but their own—(Cheers and lauFhter)—and it would- be better if they attended to their own business.—(A laugh.) The Bill contained several vexatious provisions, and the Hon. Gentleman who had, on the advice of his Right Hon. Friend kept postpon ing his motion on Prison Discipline until it was a perfect farce of him to ask for a Committee, could not do better than recommend his Hon. Friend to follow his ad vice, and postpone his Bill. Policenien were to have power to enter yards, and to ascertain if horses and cattle had a sufficient quantity of nutritious food and water, and if they had not, they might order it for them, and charge the owner double. By the inter pretation clause it appeared that cattle meant oxen, pigs, or goats. Fancy . a policeman being empowered to ascertain if one's pigs or one's goats had a sufficient quantity of food. Mr. COWPER--The Bill does not apply to cattle in tended for human food. Mr. DUNCOMBE—Why, his Hon. Friend had talked of horse sausages which he might get in Marylebone, but which were not made in Fins bur7. This was a piece of pettifogging, vexatious legislation like the Lap Dog Committee, and he should move that the Chairman report progress, and ask leave to sit again when the Committee's reports should be presented. Mr. COWPER said that would be postponing the Bill altogether. His Hon. Friend had said that this Bill had emanated from the Society for the Protection of Animals.' They had certainly discovered the ineffi 'ciency of the present law. He did not think it looked well for his Hon. Friend to say that they had no busi ness to meddle with things which did not belong to them. Why his Hon. Friend was in the habit himself of med dling from morning till night with matters which did not concern' him.—(Cheers and laughter.) This might be put on the ground of public principle in that House, and persons might subscribe, to buy estates for his Hon. Friend, for meddling wish matters which did not con cern him.—(Laughter.) But he thought that other per sons might be treated' With the same indulgence as the Hon. Gentleman in that House. The interference of the Society, on the whole, was beneficial, and the ob ject of the present Bill was to mitigate the sum of mi sery. He trusted his Hon. Friend would not divide. Mr. :.DUNCOMBE said he would move that the Chairman should leave the chair. Mr. COWPER doubted whether his Hon. Friend could make that motion. Mr. B. ESCOTT suggested that the Hon. Member should move to refer the matter to the Dog Committee. The Committee then divided, when there appeared— For the motion • Against it Majority against the motion —93 On clause 2 being proposed, Mr. T. DUNCOMBE objected to the clause. At present the knackers had a perpetual license, liable to be withdrawn only in case of misconduct. 'lt was now pro posed to make the license annual. He objected to this, as an interference with vested rights. Mr. COWPER said, by the 26th of George 111., provision was made for granting licenses ;• but the Hon. Member could hardly speak of vested rights, since the lieense could not be retained if the law were violated. ESCOTT said it was a waste of time to discuss the Bill, when so many, and such important measures were on the paper ' and waiting for discussion. Mr. CO WPER did not think it any waste of time to discuss the measure. The delay, if any, had been oc casioned by Hon. Gentlemen on the Ministerial side of the House. Mr. ESCOTT would resist this, and all such kind of attempts at legislation. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he saw no reason why a Member of Parliament should not oppose or support a a Bill if he thought proper. The Bill bad been cciin pletely emasculated, and the projectors of it would not give a farthing for it as it now stood. It was a perfect waste of time to discuss such a measure, and more than a waste of time when the immense amount of important public business yet to be transacted was considered. The Poor-law Amendment Bill had been postponed from day to day, to give time for discussion on knackers' yards.—(Laughter.) The clause, as amended, was then allowed to stand part of the Bill. . Clause 3 was then agreed to. Several amendments upon clause 4 Were agreed to. Upon the motion that the clause, as amended, do pass, Mr. ESCOTT again protested against the waste of time which this useless Bill occasioned. He also objected to the clause as unnecessarily severe. The clause was then agreed to. On clause 5 being proposed,' Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said he would be glad to know whether this clause had the sanction of the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department ? The clause provided that an inspector "might go into a knacker's yard, in order to see if the horses therein had, sufficient nutritious tOod. Sir J. GRAHAM thought the clause ought to remain in the Bill. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved that the clause be omitted. Mr. E. DENISON supported the clause. Mr. CURTEIS thought the police ought to be em powered to shoot the horses, rather than to see, that they had lood. Mr. COWPER said he would not press the clause. The clause' was then withdrawn. On clause 6 being Proposed, Mi. T. DUNCOMBE objected to the power being given to the police to, demand the inspection of the books of the owner of a licensed yard. After a short conversation, that part of the clause was omitted.—The clause was then agreed to. Clauses 7 and 8 were agreed to. On clause 9 being proposed, Mr. ESCOTT opposed the clause, as too stringent, which imposed a penalty - of DM., one moiety of which i was to go to the nformer. The - lion.' Member moved. as an amendment, that the moiety of the penalty should not 'go to the informer, but that the whole should go to the parish. . The Committee divided, when there appeared— Ayes Noes Majority .. —46 The clause was then agreed to with a few verbal amendments. The other clauses were then agreed to as was also the preamble, and the report was ordered to be received on Friday next. APPEAL IN CRIMIN.AL CASES BILL. On the motion for the second reading of this Bill, Sir J. GRAHAM said they could not agree to the second reading of the Bill without affirming its princi ple, which the Government did not wish. to bind them selves to do in the absence of the Attorney-General, and without further consideration. He was, however, pre pared, on the part of his colleagues and himself, to pledge them to the consideration of the .measure -in the next session. He trusted, therefore, the lion. Member would postpone the second reading till another session. 'Mr. KELLY acceded to the suggestion of the Right ► Hon. Gentleman, and withdrew the Bill. He trusted, however, in the next session, that the Bill would be unanimously agreed to.—The Bill was then withdrawn. POOR-LAWS. _ _ On the question for the further consideration of the report on the Poor-law Amendment Bill being put, Colonel SIBTHORP deprecated the subject being brought on at the present moment, as many Members had left the House, under the supposition that the Bill of the Hon. Member for CaMbridge would have occupied some considerable time. , ' On the questioh being Put, Mr. P. BORTHWICK thanked the Right Hon. Secretary of State, for ,the ameliorations he had intro duced into the Bill. He hoped, in the same spirit in which he had received the amendments proposed by others, he would adopt the propositions he (Mr.' Borth wick) was about to submit. Though they were four in number—they were nearly identical in principle. The two principal points . were that no separation should take place between the huaband and wife, and paivent and children, when they were reduced to want, not by vice but misfortune. Ile condemned such separation a 3 immoral and impolitic, and though many boards of guardians were kind awl. Christian in their actions and feelings, was it to be endured in a Christian country that they could only be humane by a breach of the law ?—(Cries of " Hear.") Such separation was a violation of the rights of the poor. He used the words advisedly, for he contended that 'the poor man had rights as well as the rich one.—(Hear, hear.) The great vice of the whole system of the poor-laws was, that instead of affording casual relief to casual distress, it converted that charity intoa curse, by its being changed into a continual and permanent cause of depression. He traced the ruinous and demoralising effect on the poor man of being compelled to enter the poor-house in which he was subjected to these inflictions, and stated that it was in a spirit of conciliation to the poor that he submittec his present propositions. He .considered that the poor law, like every system of law applied to the body politic, ought to operate like medicine in the natural body.. In the natural body medicine was no other than the intro ducing one disease less ephemeral and less dangerous than the one they were trying to get rid of, and the poor-law was no other in the body politic than trying to get rid of one evil by a smaller one. In a Christian country like this there ought to be no need of a poor law at all, and he believed if the Right Hon. Gentleman went on in the' system upon which he had proceeded during the present session, by and bye not only would this poor-law disappear from the statute book, but that they would yet see a state or things in England under which there would be no, need of a poor-law whatever. There must always be 'poor amongst them : that they had on the highest authority. But in a Christian coun try, the alms of God's people, collected at God's altar, ought to be enough for God's poor. With respect to the clauses which he should submit, he did not think the Right Hon., Gentleman could. say the purpose of them was not a good one. If there was any difference between himself and the Right Hon. Gentleman, it was this, that he sought to obtain that end by the machinery, of the Poor-law Commission, while he (Mr. Borthwick) sought it by a law placed on the 'statute book, in order to secure that to the poor man as a right, which the Right Hon. Gentleman himself would not refuse as a bounty. The object of the third clause was to provide that children should not be separated from their mothers where the, children were tinder seven years . of age ' and that children. under thirteen years of age 'should have free access to their mothers at all convenient times. He could assure the Right Hon. Gentleman that great prac tical evils had arisenonder the present law. The other clause to which he' should refer was that of providing temporary relief to the able-bodied poor, under certain circumstances. This had been a subject of complaint ever since the law came into operation. The law prohi bited the board of guardians from giving out-door relief ; the consequence was that the able-bodied labourer was forced to go into the workhouse, and he was thereby ruined for ever.—(Hear, hear.) He saw by the Times newspaper that a petition was agreed to at a meeting of the board of guardians of Ipswich, praying the House would give power to order out-door relief to the able bodied poor when labouring under temporary infirmity. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving the following clauses : " And be it enacted, that when any two persons, being husband and wife, both of whom shall be above. the age of sixty years, shall be received into any work house, in pursuance of the provisions of the said recited Act, or of this Act, such two persons shall not be com pelled to live separate and apart from each other in such workhouse ; and to this end suitable and decent accom modation shall be provided in every workhouse for each man and his wife so of the 'ages aforesaid, anything in the said recited Act, or in the rules or regulations for the government of any workhouse, to the contrary not withstanding. " And be it enacted, that when any two persons, being husband and wife, both of whom shall be under the age of sixty years, and either of whom shall, from infirmity of mind or body,' require the attendance or assistance of the other of them, then and in such case two such per sons shall have and be entitled to the benefit or privi lege of the provision hereinbefore contained; in regard to persons being husband and wife above the age of sixty years, anything in the said recited Act, or any rule or order to the contrary notwithstanding. " And be it enacted, that if any poor and industrious person shall, by temporary infirmity or insufficiency of employment, be unable to maintain himself or herself, or his or her family, then upon complaint thereof by such, person to any justice of the peace residing in or near the place of residence of such person, it shall be lawful for such justice to inquire into the truth of such infir mity or insufficiency of employment, and to certify the same in writing under his hand to the guardians of the union in which such poor people shall so reside; and upon receipt of such certificate, the said guardians shall immediately order sufficient relief for such poor person, and his or her family, nut of such workhouse, during the time of such temporary infirmity or insufficiency of em ployment, anything in the said recited Act, or any rule 'or regulation to the contrary notwithstanding. " And be it enacted, that when children, being under seven years of age, shall be received into any workhouse in pursuance of the provisions of the said recited Act and of this Act, such children shall not be separated from their mothers being inmates of the same workhouse, and tilt to all children, being under thirteen years of age, free access shall be afforded for their mothers being in the same workhouse, at all convenient times." The first clause was brought up, and read a first time. On the motion that it be read a second time, Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that, unless , he had been compelled by an overpowering sense of public duty to resist the motion of the Hon. Gentleman,_ his natural feelings would have prompted him to support it. The Hon. Gentleman had not brought forward any new argument in favour 'of his motion; indeed, it was scarcely possible for him to do so, the subject had been already so much discussed. The Hon. Gentleman said that he hoped the time was approaching when the poor-law would no longer be necessary. He (Sir 'James Graham) confeased that he did not take such a sanguine *view of the state of society ; he was afraid that the poor were increasing and multiplying, and that the necessity of supporting them would become more and more neces sary. But that was a vain speculation. In looking back to the history "of the country, he found that provision for the poor was made by Act of Parliament three cen turies ago ; and, looking back through that period, he could not find a trace of the precise enactments which had been embodied in the four clauses submitted to the consideration of the House by the Hon. Gentleman.. With regard to the first clause, the board of guardians had the power of giving out-door relief to persons over sixty years of age in their own houses. It was said that that depended upon the caprice of the Commissioners, and that there was no certainty in the laW ; but there was a general order orethe subject, which was sanctioned by the Secretary of State, and this had the force of law. The Poor-law Commissioners could not rescind at their pleasure such an order..., They must receive the sanction of the Secretary •of State. There was also an order, under 'certain circumstances, by which 'separate apartments were to be given to them. There was also an order, which provided that children under seven years of age should not be removed from their mothers, and that after that period they must have access to them at all convenient hours. Therefore, with regard to those portions of the Hon. Gentleman's mo tion, there was no necessity for the introduction of any new clauses into the Bill to effect those purposes. With regard to the giving of out-door relief the clause which' the lions Gentleman proposed on that subject struck at the root of the entirolaw. If it were agreed to, there was not a single abuse which existed under the old law which would not be revived by it.—(Hear, hear.) He must say that he thought the power of granting out door relief-was much more safely intrusted to a board' of guardians who were chosen by the ratepayers ; and he did not think that the control of the Commissioners was superfluous. He begged to remind the House of what he had often said before, • that the duty of the Commis sioners was by no means a one-sided'orle. It was their sacred duty, by all means in their power, by their influence, by their, advice, and by inspection, to see that the interests of the poor were not neglected. On-the whole,- he was satisfied that the. Commissioners had not neglected their duty. With regard to the re ference made by the Hon. Gentleman. to. Ipswich, lie begged to state to the House that that very place af forded an excellent illustration of what the effects of per mitting out-door relief would be. In that union 425 persons were relieved in the union workhouse, and 2,281 were relieved • out of door. Those who were maintained in the House cost 531/., while those who received out-door relief cost 1.,9401.—(Hear, hear.) If the motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman were agreed to, it woldd subvert every thing which was established under the 'ail', and unless the. House was prepared to incur the responsibility of producing such serious effects, he hoped they would not sanction this clause. Lord JOHN MANNERS said • that everything which the Right Hon. Gentleman bad urged against the motion of his Hon. Friend, could be turned with equal effect against the remarks of the Right Hon. Gentleman him self ; for if the cases alluded to had been provided for by orders of the Commissioners, where was the harm of making them the law of the land ? The Right Hon. Gentleman said that what his Hon. Friend wished should be the law of the land, was already practised under the orders of the Commissioners. If that were so, where was the disadvantage of its becoming part of the statute law ?—(Hear, hear.) The. Right Hon. Gentleman then adverted to the history of the poor-law, and said that during three centuries no provisions similar to those, in troduced by his Hon. Friend could be found. ,He, thought the Right Hon. Gentleman was the last person in the world who should refer to the history of their legislation on the subject, for he would -not find there the principle of centralisation, which was the great feature of the present' law. He maintained that they must legislate according to the wants of the people. They must not say that, because the principle had never before been acted upen,-it Should not be now. The question was, would they legislate in accordance with the acknowledged feelings of the people of this country? The outworks of this extraordirtary system were already giving way. He asked this COm inittee to perfect that which had already been begun, by supporting the resolutions of his Hon. Friend, and thus rendering this session a session for which the poor would ever be grateful. Mr. HAWES said, on the ground both of charity and humanity, he should support the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. No one could have read the reports which preceded the establishment of the present system of poor-laws, and the names appended to them, without admiring the men by whom they were compiled.—(Elear, bear.). Break down this law and how would they secure an effectual administration of relief to the poor? Where would they find a similar security? It was nothing to get rid of the present se curity, unless they provided another equally good. The resolutions were in fact the old system, and,if adopted, it would be better at once to repeal the new poor-law, and let the responsibility rest upon those who advocated that old system.—(Hear, hear.) A great deal had been said about the treatment of man and wife. . Was the Hon. Gentleman acquainted with workhouses under the old system? Would he venture to compare that system with the new one?—(Hear, hear.) He appealed to any one whether the workhouses existing previous to 1834 were not a disgrace to the country.—(" No.") The great advantage of the present system was that there was a responsible officer to administer relief.—(Hear, hear.) If they wished for increased accommodation they must be prepared to incur increased expences.—(Hear, hear.) Gentlemen talked there by the hour of the necessity of 'giving more relief. He heard scarcely a word about those poor ratepayers out of whose pockets relief must come. That class must necessarily have an increased expense thrown upon them if those resolutions were earned. But he ad m i tte d t h at expense was a secon d ary consideration. Still he maintained that some discipline was necessary in workhouses ; without that, happiness could not be secured under any system of poor-laws. It was through the discipline now: maintained that they had that order, and that cheerfulness and content — ;Ironical cries of " Hear, hear" froM Colonel Sib thorp)—which he had himself witnessed in work 'houses.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Gentleman had made a very powerful appeal ; but he asked, the House to refer to the mass of information which from time to time had been laid before the House, and to in quire whether the abuses of the present law could be compared for a moment to those of the old one ? (Hear, hear.) 'He knew no board of guardians which was not prepared to listen to cases of peculiar hardship. He hoped he ,would not be accused of a want of care for the poor, because he voted against the re-establish ment of a system which had engendered such numerous evils, in the place of that which new existed, and which he Maintained was beneficiatto the country. Mr. ESCOTI: did not deny that abuses existed tinder the - old law '; but he would no be led by that circumstance to oppose an amendment of this law. The simple q uestion _ was whether the amendment proposed by the Hon. Gentle man, was an improvement on the present system. That question had not been touched in the least by the Hon. Member for Lambeth.—(Hear, hear.) They had heard from the Right Han. Gentleman what were the cases in which out-door relief might be granted ; but, unfortu nately, the power of granting relief was not acted upon. The powers of the .board of guardians to grant relief were checked by the prohibitory order of the Poor-law Commissioners. To that order there were certain ex ceptions, which were explained by the Commissioners in an explanatory letter.. He had asked his Right Hon. 'Friend a question on that subject, and had elicited from him the answer that the board of guardians were, in all cases, to judge what was or was not a case of urgent necessity. But what was the fact? Why old persons were forced into the house without having any power of appeal. He had heard no arguments against the clause, and he should certainly give it his support. Sir C. NAPIER said he thought the question lay in a nutshell. Where was the necessity for forcing a man and his wife, 60 years of age, into the workhouse? — (Hear, hear.) The expense of maintaining a man and his wife in the house, was considerably more than that of maintaining them out of the house ; and if the Right lion. Baronet would consent to make it the law, that a man and his wife, 60 years old,• should receive out door relief, there would be no necessity for the Hon. Gentle man's clauses.—(Hear, hear.) -- He believed that that principle was already acted upon in well regulated unions. He protested against the cruelty of forcing two old people into the union -house, and separating them. He hardly though t that any gentleman would wish to see two old people thus forced to leave their homes, and not after wards be permitted to see each other.—(Hear.) But if that argument was good for the first clause, it was better for the second. If it was cruel and abominable to separate an old man and his wife, was it not still worse to sepa rate a man from his wife if she were ill? Why should she be turned over to the care of a hired nurse, who might be, perhaps, a woman of bad character,.instead of being permitted to have her husband to attend her?—(Cheers.) He asked the Right Hon. Baronet if he would make the law such that out-door relief should be necessarily granted in every case to persons of more than 60 years of age, for, if •he would not, he should vote for the clause. —(Hear, hear.) Mr. DARBY objected to the wordin, of the clause. What was • the meaning of suitable' ALA decent ac commotlation ? Different meanings would be attached to the different words by different boards of guardians. Then with regard to the second clause, who was to de termine when one person stood in need of the assistance of another? Both clauses were indefinite. Then with regard to the proposal to give magistrates the power in tended to be given them by this clause, he believed ma gistrates would be very unwilling to have those powers. He objected to out-door relief, without any test--there ought to be a labour test in conjunction with the work house test. lie should long since have proposed a clause to enact a labour test, if he had not met with great op position on the part of the boards of guardians, Ile never-wouldloonaent to giving relief to-able-bodied men, without any test at all. The great hardship of the law was, that able-bodied men out of work could not receive out-door relief. He had never seen any case of cruelty or hardship to old people. He would defy any board of guardians to carry the provisions of these clauses into operation—they were too indefinite, and were conse• quently impracticable. The Government proposition was a great improvement on the existing law. Mr. STUART WORTLEY thought the clauses were intelligible, and if they waited until they could draw up a clause without a flaw, they would never legislate at all. He agreed with the Hon. Member for Sussex as to the third clause. He 'thought it would: open a door to the introduction of the evils of the old system, and he should oppose it, as he did not wish to interfere with the discretion of the guardians. With regard to the first clause, he approved of it, as, although he admitted that the orders of the Commissioners had in a great measure carried out the objects of these clauses, yet he would rather hive those objects secured by legislative enactment. Lord STANLEY said thatif these clauses were agreed to, they would, as far as the poor-law was concerned, frustrate the labours of the present session. —(Cheers.) It had been admitted on all hands that the present Bill made many advantageous alterations in the poor-law. But should be deferred till anot h er sess i o n, than purcha s e the.m h e e, t t f h o e r 0110, wou ld rat h er that those advantages price of these clauses.—(Loud cheers.) His Hon. Friend who had just sat down had abandoned the third clause.He had admitted that he did not think it right to empower wsingle justice of the peace to overrule a decision of a board of guardians, and he had also admitted that if such power were conferred on a single however, e i v n e t o r , n justice it would r e - intro d uce t h e a b uses o f the o ld poor law and revive that system w hi c h h a d near ly b roug ht the country to the verge of ruin. The first and second clauses met with the suppor t o f hi s H on . F r i en d. H e intentions satisfied of hs Hon. that Friend however the Member for the W est R i di ng , an d h owever h umane (Lord humane a nl ey), ) 1;e might be the intentions of the . Honourable Member for Evesham, a clause more cruelly bearing upon the old people could not have been 'introduced. It was a com pulsory clause, and would bear upon the aged and infirm poor with the greatest hardship. The law as it stood at present invested a large discretion in the board of guardians, the persons who, of all others, were most cognizant of the peculiar circumstances of each particular case. The board of guardians were not compelled to give out-door relief to persons abovesixty years of age, be cause the law imposed no test upon them, but upon the necessity of the parties. A man of sixty years of age might be capable of doing a good day's work, while an other man of fifty might, from his infirmities, be a proper subject to be taken into the workhouse, or to be relieved out of the workhouse. His Hon. Friend, and the Hon. Member for Eversham, wished to. deprive the board of guardians of this discretion, and confine their attentions solely to the age, without reference to the state of health. The present law gave .tile board of guardians a discretionary power of granting out-door relief, if the parties w ere i n fi rm ; an d sure ly that was a much aafer, a much better, and a much more humane test, than the test of sixty years, which w as proposed by . the Honourable Gentleman.—(Hear, from Mr. Borthwick.) The Insent law provided that the board of guardians should have power to grant out-door relief, without separation of parties - , in their own homes, if they were in a stat e o f b o dily i n fi rm ity. His . Hon. Friend the Member for the West Riding wished that state of things only to apply to parties above sixty years of age, whether they were infirm or not ; and the }Lin. Member for Evesham said that, if they were above sixty, and were relieved in the workhouse, they were to have separate rooms. The princiVe sought to be established IV the Hon. Gentleman existed already, for, by the lirevisions of , the present law, a power existed in the Board'of guardians to allow the infirm or aged husband and wife to inhabit the same apartment in the workhouse, only requiring the board-to report such case to the . Poor-law Commissioners, and subject to the re strictions they might impose. What would be the con sequence of the clause? Why, the board of guardians would have i t nly to choose between the necessity of pro viding aged andinfirm couples with separate apartments in the workhouse, or refuse them admission altogether. They would be compelled from want of the means of accom modation, to adopt the latter alternative, and thus these poor people would be forced back into their hovels, subject to all the privations and discomforts of the lowest stage of poverty. The amendment, if carried, would operate seriously to the disadvantage of the poor and of the rate-payers, and he called upon the House to re ject it. Captain • PECHELL supported the amendment. No.. thing could be harsher than the present mode of separa tion between husband and wife practised in the work- houses. Mr. DENISON regretted that he should feel himself obliged to o ppose every one of these resolutions. Mr. BROTIIERTON did not think the clauses pro posed by the Hon. Member for Evesham could be carried out. If he' thought , they could be, he certainly would "support them. He thought, however, it would be im possible; WW1 -Out-the -wishes of th e H Q!). membei t , cause, to do so, an enormous expense would be incurred in providing separate apartments for the married in•• mates of the workhouses. He had often wished to see the present law ameliorated; but he could never support any proposiiion which was consonant with his, feelings, but against his judgment. Colonel ROLLESTON thought the boards of guardians ought to have more power ,placed in their hands with respect to-granting relief. Mr. P. HOWARD thanked the Right Hon. Baronet for his attemptS to ameliorate the existing law. He could not support the motion of the Hon. Member for Eves him, as it would place paupers on a better footing than those who were engaged in our fleets and armies. He should, therefore, give his decided opposition to the re solutions, fox:, he believed that, if they were carried, they would only hold out an inducement to persons to go into the workhouse. Mr. CURTEIS thought it was desirable that paupers should be - allowed certain times for recreation. Mr. BORTHWICK shortly replied. The question on which they were about to divide was the first clause, and that only. He wished that to be distinctly understood, because he -felt convinced many Hon. Members would vote lor that clause who would not vote for the third clause. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the clause 32 Against it 95 Majority against the clause In answer to a question from Mr. BORTHWICK on the third clause, Sir J. GRAHAM said guardians had the power, under the 22d clause of the Poor-law Act, of ordering out-door relief. Mr. B. ESCOTT expressed his satisfaction at the de claration they had heard from the highest authority on this subject in the House. He had often contested the point at meetings of boards of guardians, but had gene rally been out-voted; he trusted, however, that guardians would now interpret the Act according to its strict literal meaning, and act upon their discretion in ordering out door relief in cases where it was obviously required. The other clauses moved by the Hon. Member for Evesham were then negatived without a division. Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN then moved the following addition to clause 20 :—" And be it enacted, that the Commissioners do and shall take order for the due per l formance of religious services in each of such work houses, and for that purpose• do and shall appoint fit persons, being clergymen of the Church of England, to act as chaplains in such workhouse; and fix the amount to be paid to such chaplains respectively by way of salary or allowance for their services (which amount, when so paid, shall be paid out of the rates accordingly) : pro vided always, that no person who shall be so appointed to be a chaplain for any workhouse shall act as such chaplain, unless be be approved for that purpose by the bishop of the diocese within which such workhouse is situated." He said ho had for his proposal the sanction of a noble colleague of the Right Hon. Baronet, the Lord President of the Council, who, in another place, had suggested that a provision of this kind should be added to the present Bill ; an& he had, also, the authority of the Poor-law Commissioners themselves. The change introduced by the new poor-law was both a social and religious one, as it took a large number of the poor from those who were charged with their spiritual care. Yet in the original Act there was no mention of a chaplain, except incidentally, in an amend ment introduced in the House of Lords in the interpreta tion clause. Acting, however, on that mere mention of such an officer, the Poor-law Commissioners had ap pointed several chaplains, and in 1839 they obtained the assistance of a mandamus from the Court of Queen's Bench to enable them to do so. In twenty-two union workhouses in this Country Divine service was per formed gratuitously by clergymen of the Established Church; but the act of performing Divine service was a violation of the law. It appeared, from a return which had been made to the House, that there were, exclusive of smaller towns, thirty-five towns whose population varied from 109,000 to 4,000, whose aggregate popula tion was nearly 900,000, without chapels. In the whole county of Cumberland there were but three chaplains; in the North Riding of Yorkshire there was but one and in the whole county of Durham, with its population of 325,000, there was no chaplain at all. At their Conservative dinners they drank the Church, and it was boasted of as the church of the poor. Before 1834 it might have been the church of the poor, but it then ceased to be so. A poet of another day had told them of " Ears too delicate to hear of hell," and by a horrible parody these words might now be ap plied to the Church. They deprived the poor of rights to which they had as good a title as they themselves had to their estates .; and if they persisted in this, they would not be performing the part of Christians and statesmen, but of tyrants and robbers. What case, he asked, had been made out for depriving their poor of such rights ? What right had they, in their power and wealth, to make their morsel of bread in this world con tingent on their willingness to surrender all tidings of another ? There were 135 workhouses without chapels, and 20,000 paupers without religious instruction ; and he asked what right had they to deprive the poor of the holy offices of the Church ? Let them show their own consistency—let them show their charity and their re spect for the poor, by their jealousy lest any misfortune should separate them from the holy membership of the Church. For the last ten years the poor had been deli vered over to practical atheism, which was worse than atheism ; but he hoped there would that night be a tri umph over sordid parsimony and a cowardly compro mise of principle. He heard with great pain the decla ration of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that he felt himself bound to oppose the introduction of this clause. He felt that neither now nor hereafter would he regret it, if the opinion of the House was declared to be at variance with his own. He would now conclude, lie had spoken strongly, because he had had to describe a bad and; a dangerous state of things—a state of things unworthy bf any men who called themselves Christians ; but be hoped he had said nothing personally offensive. He warned the House not to refuse to assent ,to a clause_so extremely important as that which he had brought under their serious attention. , I Sir J. GRAHAM said the Hon. Gentleinan had ex pressed a hope that he had not used violent language on that occasion. lie gave the lion. Gentleman full credit for the purity of his motives, and the warmth of his feel ings ; but he thought the expressions which had fallen from him were hardly justified.—(Hear, hear.) He did not yield to the Hon. Gentleman in a desire to promote the interests of the Church ; but he very much doubted whether it would be promoted by an attempt to force the particular form of worship which the Hon. Gentle man and himself were attached to in every workhouse by the payment of a chaplain.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman should bear in 'mind that this was not a novelty proposed for the first time in 1834. The Gil bert Unions had been formed long antecedent to that period ; and when those unions were formed there had been no provision made for the appointment of chap lains. There were none appointed in those unions now. Captain PECHELL—In some of them. Sir .TAMES GRAHAM admitted that the Gallant Officer was a high authority on the subject of Gilbert Unions ; but he would admit that there was no provi sion made in them for the appointment of chaplains.— (" Hear, hear," from Captain Pechell.) The Hon. Gen tleman had described Divine worship, when celebrated in workhouses by clergymen, an illegal act. „, Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN—When the clergyman is, not licensed. Sir JAMES GRAHAM—SureIy it could not be contended that the clergyman of the parish would not be discharging his duty if he neglected to visit the poor in mates of the workhouse who were assembled tog ether in his parish.—(Cheers.) He considered it w as the bounden duty of the clergymen of the parish thus to attend to them. If a chaplain were appointed, he must be licensed by the Bishop, and, therefore, he could not be said to be celebrating Divine service illegally ; and if he were not licensed, then he would be, most probably, the clergy man of the parish, and he would not be acting illegally. In England and Wales there were 537 unions. There were no workhouses •in twenty-one of these unions, in three the workhouses were very small, and of the remaining 513 there were chaplains appointed in 411 under the discretionary power vested in the Poor-law Commissioners, with salaries averaging nearly 501. a year each, and yet the Hon. Gentleman alleged that they were establishing Atheism by Act of Parliament. — (Hear, hear.) While the rule remained in force for bidding the inmates of workhouses to leave its precincts even on a Sunday, he agreed with the Hon. Gentleman that they were incurring a fearful responsibility if' they failed to provide for their spiritual consolation ; but, since he had come into office, the Poor-law Commis sioners, acting in conjunction with himself, had issued an order, empowering boards of guardians to permit the inmates of the workhouse who were members of the. Established Church to leave the work house on every Sunday, Christmas Day, and Good Friday, for the purpose of attending Divine worship at their . parish church, and also to permit mothers to be accompanied by their chit dren.—(Hear, hear.) The board of guardians were also empowered to permit such inmates of the workhouse as were Dissenters to leave the workhouse on Sunday for the purpose of attending Divine service in their respec tive places of worship, and in that instance, also, mo thers were permitted to be accompanied by their chil dren. He thought the motion of his Hon. Friend was not sustained by facts. If they were to render the appointment of a chaplain in every union compulsory, they would be lighting up the flame, not of true religion, but of religious discord.—(Cheers.) He repeated it, he considered it was the duty of the clergyman of the reli gion favoured by the State to attend to the spiritual wants of the inmates of the workhouse situated in his parish. The Hon. Gentleman might call it a cowardly compromise if he liked, but he certainly should shrink from the responsibility of attempting to carry the propo sition of the Hon. Gentleman, although he bore as sin cere an attachment to the Church as the Hon. Gentleman. Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN explained. He had not meant to say that the Right Hon. Gentleman was not actuated by any feelings of attachment and respect towards the Established Church. Mr. LIDDELL said workhouse relief to the poor in the northern counties was of very trifling extent, and the aged and infirm were generally relieved in their own houses. He had never heard of the want of spiritual assistance in workhouses, of which the Hon. Member complained so bitterly, and did not believe any such want existed, at least in the county of Durham. • Mr. M'GEACHY deplored the tone in which the Right Hon. Baronet had treated the Established Church. lie thought it was the duty of a State to provide spiritual instruction for its Members. He earnestly hoped that s b p ? ro P i t er ig o i 6 u the House would assent to the propositio n of his Hon. se Friend. Mr. C. BULLER thought the R i g ht Hon. Baronet had shown himself a friend to the C hurch in takin g the course he had adopted with respec t to this Motion. Mr. S WORTLEY.objected to the forcing , on unions the appointment of chap l a ins. Mr. HENLEY thought th e time had come when the f,ssecuin r- struction. :Le in ggtioslatthai;nionnhgalibitttaonitsuteorfferuenifoonr'i Sir J. GRAHAM explained, and the House divided; the numbers were, - For the .clause . Against it . - B2 Majority against the clause The. CLIAIR3fAN then reported progress, and the douse resumed, the report was ordered to be brought up this day at twelve o'clock., The Other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at One o'clock. s PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. From the Votes and Proceedsngs of the Howe of Commons.) TUESDAY, JULY 23. MR. O'DRISCOLL. Motion made, and Question put, " That an humble Address be presented to her Majesty, praying, for the removal of Mr. Alexander O'Driscoll from the Commission of the Peace:" The House divided : MINORITY—AYES, 59. Aglionby H. A. Fox, Charles Richard Ponsonby, C. F. A. C Ahiam, W. Gore, Robert Rawdon, J. D. krchbold, Robert Hastie, A. Scott, Robert Arundel, Lord Hawes, B. Shell, R. L. Bannerrnan, A. Holland, Robert Shelbutne, Earl of Bellew, R. M. Howard, P. H. Smith, J. Abel Bowes, John Howard, Sir R. Smith, Vernon Bowring, Dr. Hut:, W. - Somerville, Sir W. Brothertou, J. APTaggartJ. Strutt, Edward Byng, G. S. Mircalfe, H enry H Tancred, Henry W Chapman, B. Mitchell , T. A. Thornely, Thomas Colborne W. Ridley Morris, David Villiers, Charles t Collett,John Murphy, F. S.: Wakley, Thomas Craig, W. Gibson Norreys, Sir D. J. Walker, R. Dawson, Hon. T. V O'Connell. M. J. Wawn, John T. Denison, W. J. O'Conor Don ' Wyse, Thomas Duncan, George O'Ferrall R. More Yorke, R. H. Duncombe, T. S. Ogle, S. C. H. Dundas, Admiral Ord William TELLERS. Esmonde, Sir T. Pechell, Captain Ross, David R. Forster, Matthew Plumridge, Captain Browne, R. D. MAJORITY—NOES, 92. A'Court, Captain Douglas, Sir C. Maclean, Don‘ld Adderley, C. B. Douglas, J. D S. Masterman, John Archdall, Captain Eaton, Richard.). Maxwell, J. P. Arkwright, George Eliot, Lord Meynell, H. Astell, William Farnham, E. B. Milnes, R. M. Bankes, George Flower , Sir James Nicholl, J. Baring, B. Forbes, Patten J. W Barneby, J. Forman, I'. Seaton Peel. Sir -Robert Barrington, Viscount Fremantle, Sir T. Peel, Jonathan Raskerville, T. B. al Fuller, Augustns E. Pringle, A. Bateson, Robert Gaskell, J. M. Rolleston, Colonel Beckett, W. Gladstone, W. E. Round, John Bentinck, Lord G. Gordon, Captain • Rous, Hon. Captain Beresford, Major Goulburn, H. Rushbrooke,Colonet Blacklaurne,J.lreland Graham, Sir James Sheppard, T. Blackstone, W. Greene, T. Smith,Rt Hon. T. 8.0 Boldero, Henry G. Grogan, Edward Somerset, Lord G. Bowles, Admiral Hamilton, J. Hans Sotheron, T. H. tiroadley, H. Herbert, Sidney Sp ioner, Richard Bruce, Lord Ernest Hodgson, Richard Stanley, Lord Bruges, W. H. L. Hope, Charles Stuart. H. Buckley, Edmund Hope, G. W. Sutton, Hon. H. M Bunbury, Thomas Homby, John . Taylor, Edward Chelsea, Viscount Hussey, Thomas Thesiger, F. Clerk, Sir George Ingestre, Lord Tollemache, F. J. Cockburn, Sir G. Jernayn, Earl . Trench, Sir F. Colvile, Charles R. Jones, T. Trotter, John Corry, Henry Kemble, Henry Wodehouse, Edmond Cripps, W. Knatchbull, Sir E. Darner, Hon. G. Lennox, Lord A. TELLERS, Darby, George Lincoln, Farl of Young, John Denison, E. Leckett Mackinnon," W. A. Baring, H. AMENDED RAILWAYS BILL A BILL TO ATTACH CERTAIN CONDITIONS TO THE CONSTRUCTION OF FUTURE. RAILWAYS, AUTHORISED OR TO BE AUTHORISED BY ANY ACT OF THE PRESENT OR SUCCEEDING SESSIONS OF PARLIAMENT, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES IN RELATION TO RAILWAYS. Note.—The clauses marked (A) and (B) were added by the Committee. 1. Whereas it is expedient that the concession of powers for the establishment of new lines of railway should he subjected to such conditions as are hereinafter contained for the benefit of the public; be it enacted by the Queen's Most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, that if at any time after the end of twenty-one years from and after the Ist day of January next after the passing of, any Act of the present or of any future session of Parlia ment, for the construction of any new line of passenger railway, whether such line be a trunk, branch, or junc tion line, and whether such' nelv line be constructed by a new company incorporated for the purpose, or by any existing company, the clear annual profits divisible upon the subscribed and paideap capital stock of the said railway, upon the average of the three then last pre ceding years, shall equal or exceed the rate of 1 01 . for every 1001. of such paid-up capital stock, it shall be law ful for the Lords Commissioners of her Majesty's Trea sury, upon giving to the said company three calendar months' notice in writing of their intention so to do, to revise the scale of tolls, fares, and charges, limited by the Act or Acts relating to the said railway, and to fix such new scale of tolls, fares, and charges, applicable to such different classes and kinds of passengers, goods, and other traffic on such railway, as in the judgment of the said Lords Commissioners, as suming the same quantities and kinds of traffic to con ; tinue, shall be likely to reduce' the said divisible profits to the said rate of 10/. in the 1001., and so from time to time at the expiration of each succeeding period of twenty-one years ; provided always, that no such re vised scale shall take effect, unless accompanied by a guarantee, to subsist as long as any . such revised scale of tolls, fares, and charges shall be in force, that the said divisible profits, in case of any deficiency therein, shall be made good to the said rate of 101. for every 100/. of such capital stock ; provided also, that such revised scale shall not be again revised or such guarantee with drawn, otherwise than with the consent of the company. for the further period of twenty-one years. 2. That whatever may be the rate of divisible profits in any such railway, it shall be lawful for the said Lords Commissioners, if they shall think fit, at any time aftet the expiration of the said term of twenty-one Tears, ti purchase any such railway, with all its hereditaments, stock, and appurtenances, in the name and on behalf of her Majesty, upon giving to the said company three calendar months' notice in writing of their intention, and upon payment of a sum' equal to twenty-five years' purchase of the said annual divisible profits, estimated on the average of the three then next preceding years ; provided always, that if the average rate of profit • for the said three years shall exceed the rate of 101 in the 1001., it shall be taken at only 101. in the 100 tr for the purpose of cal culating thereon the amount of such purchase-money; provided also, that if the average rate of profits for the said three years shall be less than the rate of 101. in the 1001., it shall be lawful for the company, if they shall be of opinion that the said rite of 25 years' purchase of the said average profits is an adequate rate of purchase of such railway, reference being. had to the prospects thereof, to require that the rate- of purchase, instead of being calculated upon such average rate of profit, shall be taken at a valuation, to be determined, in case of dif ference, by arbitration. 3. (A.) That nothing herein contained shall be con strued to subject to the said option of revision or pur chase any railway made or authorised to be made by any Act previous to the present session ; and that no branch or extension of less than five miles in length of any existing line of railway shall be taken to be a new railway .within the provisions of this Act ; and that the said option of purchase shall not be exercised as to any branch or extension of any existing railway, without in cluding iu the purchase the existing railway • also in case the company of proprietors of the same shall require that the same be so included. 4. (B.) And whereas it is expedient that the policy of calling into exercise the powers of revision or purchase hereby reserved, or either of them, should in no manner be prejudged by the provisions of this Act, and should remain for the future -consideration of the Legislature, upon grounds of general and national policy ; and whereas it is not the intention of this Act, that under the said powers of revision or purchase, if called into use,*the public resources should be employed to sustain an undue competition against any independent company or companies ; be it enacted, that no such notice se- hereinbefore mentioned, whether of revision 'or pur chase, shall be given, until provision shall have been made by Parliament, by an Act or Acts to be passed in that behalf, for authorising the guarantee or the levy of the purchase money hereinbefore mentioned, as the case may be, and for determining, subject to the conditions hereinbefore mentioned, the manner in which the said options or either of them 'shall be exercised ; provided always, that before any application is made to Parliament for the powers to exercise the said options or either of them, three months' notice shall be given by the said Lords Commissioners to the company or companies to be affected thereby, of the intention so to apply. 5. That from and after the commencement of the pe riod of three years preceding the period at which the option of ransom or purchase becomes available, full and true accounts shall be kept of all sums of money re ceived' and paid on account of any railway within the provisions hereinbefore contained (distinguishing, if the said railway shall be a branch railway, or one worked in common with other railways, the receipts, and giving an estimate of the expenses, on account of the said railway from those on account of the trunk line, or other rail ways) by the directors of the company to whom such railway belongs or by whom the same may be worked, and of the purposes and things for which such sums of money shall have been received and paid ; and every such railway company shall, once in every half year, cause a half-yearly account in abstract to be pre pared, showing the total receipt and expenditure On account of the said railway, for the half year ending the 30th day of June and the 31st day of December, respec tively, or such other convenient days as shall in each case be directed by the Lords of the said Committee, under distict heads of receipt and expenditure, according tf. such form as may be required by the Lords of the said Committee, with a statement of the balance of such ac count, duly audited and certified under the hands of two or more directors of the said railway company ; and shall send a copy of the said account to the Lords of the said Committee on or before the last days of August and Feb ruary respectively, or such other days as shall in each case be directed by the Lords of the said Committee in each year ; and it shall be lawful for the Lords of the said Committee, if and when they shall think fit, to ap point any proper person or persons to inspect the ac counts and books of the said Company ; and it shall be lawful for any person so authorised, at all reasonable times upon producing his authority, to examine the .books, accounts, vouchers, and other documents of the company at the principal office or place of business of the company, and to take copies or extracts therefrom. . 6. Companies to provide one cheap train, each way, daily. (This clause remains virtually unchanged, see clause 25 of former Bill.) And with respect to all rail way companies subject to these obligations which shall be open on or before the Ist day of November next, these obligation: shall come into force on the said Ist day of November ; and with respect to all other rail ways subject to this obligation, it shall come into force on the day of opening of the railway, or the day after the last day of the session in which the Act shall be passed, by reason of which the company will become subject thereunto, which shall tirst happen. 7. That if any railway company shall refuie or wilfully neglect to comply with the provisions of this act as to the said cheap trams, within 'a reasonable time, or shall attempt to evade the operation of such order, such cora- pany shall forfeit to her Majesty a sum not exceeding 201. for every day during which Luch refusal, neglect, or evasion, shall continue. 8. Board of Trade to have a discretionary power of allowing alternathe arrangements. [This clause is the same as the former clause 27.] 9. That no tax shall be levied upon the receipts of any railway company from the conveyance of passengers at fares not exceeding id. for each mile, by any such cheap train as7aforesaid. 10. Certain companies to convey military and Tidily ° forces at certain charges, 5 and 6 Vict., C. 55. ['l his'is the same as the former clause 29.) 11. Railway companies to afford additional faeilitks for the transmission of the mails, 1 and 2 Viet.,fe. 933. [This is the - same as former clause 30.] • 12. And whereas electrical telegraphs have been established on certain aailways, and may be more ex tensively established hereafter, and it is expedient to provide for their due regulation., be it enacted, - that every railway company, on being- required so to do by the Lords of the said Committee, shall be bound to allow any person or persons authorised by the Lords of the said Committee, with servants and workmen, at all reasonable times to enter into or upon their lands, and to establish and lay down upon such lands adjoining the line of such railway, a line of electrical telegraph for her Majesty's service, and to give to him and them every reasonable facility for laying down the same, and for using the same, for the purpose of receiving and sending messages on her Majesty's ser vice, subject to such reasonable remuneration to the company as may be agreed upon between the company and the Lords of the said Committee, or in case of disa greement, as may be settled by arbitration ; provided always, that. subject to a prior right of use thereof fiir the purposes of her Majesty, such telegraph may be used by the Company, for the purposes of the railway, upon such terms as may be agreed upon between the par ties, or, in the event of difference, may be settled by arbitration. 13. That where a line of electrical telegraph shall have been established upon any railway by the company to whom such railway belongs, or by any company, partnership, person or persons, otherwise than exclu sively for her Majesty's service, or exclusively for the purposes of the railway, the use of such electrical tele graph, for the purpose of receiving and sending mes sages, shall, subject to the prior right of use thereof for the service of her Majesty and for the purposes of the company, and subject also to such equal charges, and to such reasonable regulations, as may be from time to time made by the said railway company, be open for the sending and receiving of messages by all persons alike, without favour or preference. 14. And whereas by an Act passed in the 4th year of the reign of her Majesty, intituled, "An Act to regulate Railways." power is given to the Lords of the said Com mittee to appoint any proper person or persons to in spect any railway, and the stations, works, and buildings, and the engines and carriages belonging thereto ; and in order to carry the provisions of this Act into execu tion it is expedient that the said power be extenJed ; be it enacted. that the said power given to the Lords of the said Committee, of appointing proper persons to inspect railways hall extend to authorise the appointment by the Lords of the said Committee of any proper person or persons, for such purposes of in spection, as are by the said Act authorised, and also for the purpose, of enabling the Lords of the said Committee to carry the provisions of this and of the said Act, and of any general Act relating to railways, into execution and that so much of the last-recited Acts as provides that no person shall be eligible to the appointment as in specter, who shall within one year of his appointment, have been a director, or have held any office of trust or profit under any railway company, shall be repealed; provided always, that no such person shall exercise any powers of interference in the affairs of the company. 15. Repealing provision of 3 and 4 Vic., c. 97. (Sarno as former clause 35.) 16. Board of Trade may direct prosecutions to pre vent railway companies from contravening or exceeding the provisions of their Acts. [Same as former clause 36.] li. Notice to be given to the company. Prosecutions to be under the sanction of the Board of Trade, and within one year after the offence. [Same as former clause 37.] 18. And whereas many railway companies have bor rowed money in a manner unauthorised by their Acts of incorporation or other Acts of Parliament relating to the said companies, upon the security of loan notes or other instruments purporting to give a se curity for the repayment of the principal sums bor rowed at certain dates, and for the payment of interest thereon in the meantime : and whereas such loan notes or other securities issued otherwise than under the provision of some Act or Acts of Parliament have no legal validity, and it is expedient that the issue of such illegal securities should be stopped ; but such loan notes or other securities havinc , been issued and received in good faith as between the borrower and lender, and for the most part for the lawful purposes of the undertaking and in ignorance of their legal invalidity, it is expedient t.) confirm such as have been already issued ; be it enacted, that from and after the passing of this Act, any railway company issuing any loan note or other negotiable or assignable instrument, purporting to bind the company as a legal security for money ad vanced to the said railwtty company otherwise than under the provisions of some Act or Acts of Parliament authorising the said railway company to raise such tnoney and to issue such security, shall for every such _ _ . ffeuje forfeit to her Majesty a sum equal to the sutra for which such loan note or 'Other instrument purports to be such security: provided always, that any company may renew any such loan note or other instrument issued.by them prior to the passing of this Act, for any period of not exceeding five years from the passing of this Act. 19. That where any railway company, before the 12th lay of July, 1844, shall have issued or contracted to issue Any such loan notes, or other unauthorised instruments, the company may and shall pay off such loan notes or other instruments, as the same ma 7 fall due, subject as herein before provided ; and, until the same shall be so paid off, the said- loan notes or other instruments shall entitle the holders thereof to the payment, by the company, of the principal sum and interest thereby agreed to be paid: - 20. That aregister of all such loan notes or other in - struments shall be kept by the secretary, and such re gister shall be open, without fee or reward, at all rea sonable times, to the inspection of any shareholder or auditor 'of the undertaking, and of every person inter ested in any such loan note or other instrument desirous of inspecting the same. 21. Remedy for recovery of tithe-rent charged on rail way land. [Same as former clause 43.] 22. Communications to and from Board of Trade, ser vice of notices, &c. [Same as former clause 44.] 23. Penalties. [Same as former clause 45.] 24. That where the word " railway" is used in this Act, it shall be construed to extend to all railways con structed under the powers of any Act of Parliament ; and when the words "passenger railway" are used in. this Act, they shall be construed to extend to all rail ways constructed under the powers of any Act of Parliament upon which one-third or more of the gross annual revenue is derived from the conveyance of passengers by steam or other mechanical power ; and whenever the word "company" is used in this Act, it shall be construed .to extend to include the proprietors For the time being of any such railway ; and that where a different sense is not expressly declared, or does not appear by the context, every word importing the sin gular number or the masculine gender shall be taken to include females as well as males, and several persons and things as well as one person or thing. 25. That this Act may be amended or repealed by any Act to be passed in this session of Pailiament. Thornhill Park is diiected to be sold by Mr. George Robins, by private treaty. It should seem there is nothing in Southampton's beauteous vicinity, that can approach this splendid mansion and estate. Sir William Curtis has in vain essayed to rent it furnished for the season of yachting, but the executors of Sir Barlow Hoy, think they are prohibited from disposing of it, except as a most eligible purchase. A reverend and highly ta lented correspondent of curs, makes the following com mentary upon the property :—" I hope the place is marked in Thornhill Park where the bones of the famous racer Etuilins are interred." He was the founder of a race of " giants" in their way. Mr. Westley Richards, gun-manufacturer, Bir mingham, has succeeded in combining various qualities of steel, suitable for the manufacture of sword blades ; it has all the toughness of the Indian Wootz, with a beautiful Damask surface, but has much greater elasti city, which gives it a decided advantage over the Eastern material. Specimens may be seen at Wm. Bishop's, No. 170, New Bond-street, and at the manufactory, Bir mingham. REVELATIONS OF RUSSIA.—The recent visit of the Emperor of Russia to this country has excited an unsuual interest about the vast empire which he governs, with a will and a hand to the power of which there is no limit; and this interest is likely, as we understand, to be imme diately gratified, in a most unexpected manner by the publication of such extraordinary " revelations," touch ing all Russian institutions, social as well as political, as no press but that of England would dare to put forth. Hitherto the accounts we have received of Russia and the Russians have been prepared and put forth by travellers only individuals, however worthy of credit and attention, who could not from the brief time they passed in the country, by possibility have penetrated be yond the surface, which alone presents itself to a travel ler's eye. But these " Revelations of Russia" are said to be the result of many years' residence and observa tion, and under such circumstances of official and social position as render them more trustworthy than anything else of the kind that has hitherto been given to the world. This work is al,o said to contain the " Secret History," never before made public, of that extraordinary revolu tion which placed the present Emperor on the throne. HOSPITAL FOR CONSUMPTION AND DISEASES OF THE CHEST, BROMPTON.—Considerable anxiety has been expressed, and several inquiries made, as to the probable completion of the new hospital at Pelhsm crescent, Brompton, and of which it may be remembered his Royal Highness l'rince Albert laid the first stone, on the 11th ult. It seems that, although the ground plans and elevation are fully completed, yet the specifications of the builders are not thoroughly decided upon, and hence the apparent delay. The works, as far as they have proceeded, form a beautiful specimen of workman ship, although evidently copipd • from the new building now in progress, in Lincoln's Inn-fields. It is most earnestly hoped by all well•vvishers to this excellent foundation, that no further delay a ill be permitted by the Building Committee, more particulasiy as the claims daily made upon the present establishment, at Chelsea, are increasing to such an extent, that, in some instances, it has become painfully necessary to refuse admission, through the absolute want of accommodation. It is in contemplation to hold another bazaar and fancy fair, on behalf of this highly patronised institution, and of which as a matter of course, due notice will be given. )11'h ai , s hook' order . order Wit h ' n of done° b een ,' r•an wo e, it and Estate ] lesti° n t to be )f cm!'" t he !tsiene4 0 to 3° 1 I'o