The Sun. — London, England, 1839-06-28 00:00:00

--EvNkN IN - 6 EDITION.' eENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT. - ..... THE GOLD DUST ROBBERY. The examinatioa of Henry Solomons continued from our tirst ediion of yesterday. \ Cross-examination continued—He melted it for her The 4001. was pail after the third melting. He did not direct his son to get t h e c h ec k c h anged— i t was a natura l i caution on his son's psrt. He was so agitated that he does not recollect whether any body was in the shop when he gave hi sox the bar cf gold. lie suspected there was something won, when Moses said—l do not know • you, ncr von do . net knew me. Before Mrs. Abraham brought the gold to him, he suspected it was stolen, but he had no belief one way or the other. Dean assisted him in meltieg the gold dust ; all the gold that he received he received on the Tuesday, before half-past six o'clock ; All the gold was 'melted in the presence of Mrs. Abra- hams; each melting; took about half-an-hour, and then she went away to fetch more. What he stated when he first went before the Magistrates was false; to the best of his recollec tion the question he refused to answer at Lambeth. street was about some 1001. notes ; be swore falsely to screen himself. He comes here toolay to tell the truth, to screen himself. He now tells the truth because he Feels remorse for his conduct, Has heard since his sons bad absconded, but as he was in prison he cannot tell. Witness's brother-in law was in custody. He saw Mrs. Abrahams at the Police Office, but he was so panic struck he could pay no atten tion to what passed. Saw she was g iving evidence. Be lieves he heard his name mentioned by Mrs. Abrahams— has hardly any doubt about it. Wit ness ma d e communi cation to his attorney in prison, which was taken down in writing for the purpose, as he believes, of being commu nicated to the attorney for the prosecution. By Mr. CLAIIKSON.—The statement was in writing. Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant BONPAS—Iie made that statement before any communication was made to him that he would be lice:vett as a witness for the prosecution. This was a long while before he was examined as a witness. Believes it was longer than a fortnight. Knew where the gold was. Had no communication either directly or indi- Neely with Deal. Sent no message to Dean. Had some communicatioa with his ettorncy about getting rid of the ) )ease of the le uic in the Strand, because he could never tvetbere after this transaction. His wife still carries on the tusisiess in Covenitry-street. Ile told his solicitor he was really to make every reparation in hispower, and desired him to deliver up the gold ; 301. was taken out of his cash box, but_he never gave up any money nor has he undertaken to give.up any money of any kind. He had paid 350/., 4001., 7001 and 131. to Mrs..Abraharas; be cannot form a notion Of What - be gave for the gold. lie received 1,200/. from cult for the gold, and 4001. from Cook and Johnson, and there is a balance due from Bolt of somewhere about 601. Does not know Davis. His sons were at home when he was taken up. He was at liberty above a week after he was examined, before he was taken up. Ile took the gold out of the iron chest and gave it to Dean to conceal it, because be was alarmed about it. lie did not.see where Dean put it. His house was not searched before be was taken up. He did net ask Dean where it was before be was taken up. No one but Dean and him self had anything to do with it. Cross-examined h; Mr. Ancernes.—Had never dealt with Moses for gold before, but had for spirits. It was quite by accident that the furnace was hewed and the crucible ready when Mrs. Abrahams brought the gold. Alloy is put with gold to make it workable. Had heard that gold-dust had been stolen, but asked Moses no question's. His son Isaac saw Alice Abrahams Come in on the morning when she first came. Neither Dean nor his eons came to see him while he was in cus tody. Does not know where they were. He never sent to them to come as witnesses. Ile left it in the hands of his solicitor. Had heard that some one else had taken a house for his wife and fernily in Hanway-yard, to carry on the business, but does not know who it is. Does not know that it was Rces. Rees lives in Hanway-street. Did not say anything about the transacti o n, b ecause h e did not lik e to expose himself that he was in it. lie sent but one statement. He was examined privately by Mr. Hardwick, and produced a statement drawn up by his attorney, and signed by himself, and Mr. Hardwick said he should receive it only as his voluntary statement. lie did not swear to it. The attorney drew up the statement from his dictation. Does not recollect that Lee or Roe were present at his private examination. Re-examined by Mr. Cltnesoe_The clerk to tine Ma . gistrates was present at the private examination, and read over ise him the statement that he had signed. The Ma gistrate told him it would be used against him, and he should be. put to the bar if it were untrue. At that time there had been no promise made to him that he should be a witness, nor did he know he was to be examined for the Crown until long after. The Court then adjourned 'for a quarter of an hour for refreshment. I - Mr. Justice LITTLFDAI.F. having resumed his seat on the bench at a quarter after two o'clock, the trial proceeded. Isaac Solomons is the son of Henry Solomons, the last witnees ; was an assistant to him at his shop in the Stra n d. Was in th e s h op on E aster Tuesday last, when Mrs. Abrahams and Mr. Moses came there. Moses came first. Witness's father was there. Moses said he wished to speak to witness's father. They went up stairs together, and remained ten minutes. Mrs. Abrahams came shortly after and went with witness's father into the back shop, , where furnaces are kept. Did not remain at home all the time when Mrs. Ahraharns was there. His father directed ! him to go out. Went to Ransom's. Returned and went cut again, and took a cheeque with him. Changed it, and took the change to his father. Knows Woolf. Went to him. Received it chesque from him on Ransom for 100/. If ~d. een!., h. melee. - Whatever he recei v ed o f R ansom i n change for.the c h ecque he delivered to his father in the same state he receised it. Went to Cook and Johnson with a bar of gold. Received a 3001. note from them, which he ilentifiess e ,Teap-k it to the Bank of England and received 20:104 notes anAl,o .51. notes. Changed the 100/. note for 100' SC ve,re lien e.. ;„Toeska s e. 1...- to Ad. , father:'-- Found IVles"Kaatihin's tb'ere on his return, with his father. The everiingliiie4thee - received the summons to attend at the police. office, witncs3 saw the prisoner Moses at his house in Vine,gar-sard, alone. lie showed him the paper, and said, my father has received this summons, and -asked hie) for the Bank Notes and told him if he would let witness's father have the bank notes he should have sovereigns as soon as possible. Moses said " Don't ) make yourself a c hild , " and h e promised that he would not ' part with the bank notes ; witness then left him. Cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant Boespes._When he was at Lambeth-street he thought it was sovereigns he had got for the 100 t., but about a week ago Mr. Abrahams, his father's solicitor, told him it was part in notes and part in-sovereigns —he gave him his deposition to read over— does not know whether his brother was present at this con versation with Mr. Abrahams—has seen Mr. Abrahams several times shout this matter. Mr. Abrahams took his statement about three weeks ago, his brother was present ; this was p rev i ous to their going before the Magistrate. Imagined he might assist in getting his father out by mak ing a statement. Cross-examined by Mr. Anotnettus.—There was not in the shop a sufficient quantity of stock to have made up such a bar. I Selina Solomons, son of the witness Henry Solomons, was examined by Mr. Doane, and corroborated the evidence of his father. On the Thursday after Easter he had heard of some one being taken up for the robbery, and went to the prisoner Money Moses' house, and told Lim he had come in consequence of being very uneasy from having heard in the course of the day that the Cas pars were taken. Moses said " Don't make yourself a child, for neither me name nor your father's name will he culled in question." Witness asked if he could have the notes back, and Moses said he could. Witness then told him he had come witheet the knowledge of his father. On the Saturday he gave a note to Dean to change, and took 200 sovereigns to Money Moses' house, and gave them to Nloses, who gave him back two of the 1001. notes, which had been given to Alice Abrahams. Moses told him so. lie gave the two notes to his father. Went to Moses' house at d;fferent times in the following week to receive the notes, by his father's directions. Saw Moses each time, and received the notes back from him. Gave him sovereigns for them. Ho went there afterwards, and saw Alice Abrahams, who said her father was out. They got into conversatio n r, specti•eg Caspar. Witness asked her if the 10 U was ',ate. She said it was, she had given it to her ..inter with sown ot h er notes sealed up in a piece o f paper. Witevss asked her if she was sure she was not watched when she brought the gold dust, she said she w as sur e she was not, she would tell him - why. She had an old sweetheart, named Jessop, whom she had asked to lend h, is a cupboard to put some things in, which she intended to send to her sister in the country, and it was there she had put the gold dust, and from there she had brotight it. The rattle of Davis was mentioned by her ; she said she was in his house when it was searched. On the 13tb April he received a message from Dean, in con sequence of which he went to Money Moses' house, and found :qrs. Abrahams there ; she took him upstairs, and told him Are must have those bars back, witness told her No, she could not. She said if she had them back, she thought she could sell. them to the prosecutor. He then asked her if her father would give up 'the money he had received, she said No, and witness left her. The Witness underwent a long and severe cross-exami nation by Mr. Sergeant BOMPAS and Mr. Anoeenus, but nothing material was elicited to shake his testimony. ;moss NEGLECT ON THE PART OF TILE CIVIC AUTHORITIES. The adjournment of the Court was delayed a considera ble time this evening in consequ ence o f t h e a b sence of a l l the: 'Aldermen, Si r Peter Laurie having left the Court shortly before six o'clock. On Mr. Sheriff Johnson making his appearance, Mr. Justice LITTLEDAL E informed hint that he could not dismiss the Jury, nor should he leave the Bench until the arrival of an Alderman. This neglect on the part of the city functionaries ap peared to annoy both the Judge and the Jury. After half an hour had elapsed one of the Jury suggested that perhaps the Aldermen had all left town. Mr. Justice LITTLEDALE—In that case we must sit here until ten o'clock to-morrow morning. A JurtYNlAN—But we need not detain your Lordship. Mr. Justice LITTLEDALE--Oh, yes, I shall remain; but it is a very unpardonable thing. At a quarter t o seven o'clock, Mr. Wheaton, the su perietendont of police, arrived, and said that the Lord Mayor was gone to Blackwell, and there was not an Al 'lerman to he found in the City. At ten minutes after seven Mr. Alderman MAONAY invie his appearance on the Bench, and the Court was Iml i°urned. • Justice LITTLEDALE congratulated the Jury on seem release Birch, 'rite aldermen on the rota this Session are Alderman is suffering under severe illness, Alderman Brown, s- ° Aldermana‘Whetapman Marshall, Sir Peter Laurie, and We understan a . it o f _Alderman Brow n 7071 the duty of Sir Peter Laurie or have been in attendance. The Court, in c°usquaence of this gross neglect, was ;detained more than all hour. I AE ,. W t RIOT CO URT. AND ASSAULT IN TILE FLEET PRISON. , Sarah Rig (both prison char/es Calvert Brownin g , ors in the custody of the " den). David Nathan James . Cridland, Geo. ' Wright, Tholkat, Wm. Hazleitztrst, Thos , c Charles Fitzgibbon, John M. Dill, Jervis. Ellis, Frederick Fox Cooper, David Peek, Jeremiah Halls, RObert ThoMp son, and H. Critchner were indicted for committing an assault upon William Treethy, and Celia, his wife, aid causing a riot in her Majesty's prison of the Fleet, at which time the prosecutor and said defendants were confined for debt in the said prison. After a long and desultory conversation between the Recorder and the Counsel on both sides, the prisoners pleaded guilty, and entered into their own recognizances in the sum of 200/. each to keep the peace towards the prose cutor and his wife, and, all her Majesty's subjects. They were then taken back in custody to the Fleet. METROPOLITAN POLITICAL SUMMARY. The Courier of last evening makes the following comments on the postponement of the Irish railway scheme :—" Amongst the numerous postponements of the Session, none are to be more regretted than that of the whole scheme of Irish railways. The measure stands over until next year. But next year will npst probably bring with it new diffi cu l t i es o f i ts own . The Irish rail ways will then be sacrificed again—and then, like every other project conceived upon a great scale, and pregnant with the hope of advantage to that unfortunate country, it will be consigned to the tomb of all the Capulets.' Mr. French intends to raise a discussion upon the sub ject, if he can, in the course of a fortnight or three weeks. But he will have no audience ; or there will be no House ; or it will be counted out ; or some fresh battle, got up by the miserable aspirants to office, will swamp his motion ; or something or another will as suredly intervene to add one more to the myriads of dis appointments which never fail to crowd upon the heels of each other the moment Ireland seems upon the eve of entering on a course of real prosperity." The Globe, recurring to the question of the Ballot, says :—" 'W e have repeatedly shown that the Ballot proposes nothing more than to make real what is false, and to make moral what is immoral in our existing elective system. All honest opposition to it must rest on the ground of an assumed inefficacy or unfitness for is purpose. We have shown in the next place that the subject is by its nature calculated to produce variety of opinion ; and that among those not interested in upholding corrupt elections, that variety of opinion really exists. Now, therefore, when we find one party—the party supposed to be interested in a very high de gree in the maintenance of bribery and in timidation at elections, hut professing to de r sire their suppression —wholly and unconditionally opposed to the only remedy yet suggested, and affect ing a conscientious unanimity of opinion that it is not the proper remedy ; while all other parties not so inte rested are divided in their views, approving or disap proving of the measure, according to a natural diversity of views and judgment, have we not a right to draw the plain, inevitable conclusion, and to say, " The Tories are opposed not to the Ballot per se ; but to the objects the Ballot proposes to accomplish ; not to this particular broom, but to the cleansing of their stable, by that or any other instrument. Filth is their element ; and filth they must have. Like Gulliver, they have lived among the Yahoos and a foul smell is essential to their happiness." The Standard observes, with reference to the agita tion of the education question, " Christian education may be made, and will be made, co-extensive with the whole population, if only Dissenters will lend their aid, or cease from allying themselves with Romanists and Socinians in hostile opposition. These are truths which no one, as we believe, will venture to dispute; and the question, therefore, really comes to this—will Dissenters knowingly oppose the extension of the Gospel merely from a feeling of pique against the Church, or from even more dishonourable motives ? We are confident that they will not ; and we look to the present agitation as certain to bring the Dissenting body to a better mind, or prodigiously to thin its ranks. Not less useful is the effect of the agitation upon the members of the Church ; for when were persecution and danger less than the best Christian discipline ? When men are insulted or injured for their opinions, they—if they are wise and honest—review those opinions with a care and severity unknown before ; if they find them erroneous they abandon them, for none will willingly suffer for falsehood ; if they see that they are sound they will ad here to them with firmness and with renewed zeal." CARLOW ELECTION COMMITTEE The Committee yesterday afternoon, shortly before the hour of adjournment, decided the vote of John Car penter, which has been under consideration for a week, to be a good vote, and therefore retained it on Mr. Gishorne's poll, leaving the parties still on an equality. Mr. WRANGIIAM said that he should now proceed with that class of voters who were objected to on the ground of havi ng rece i ve d b r ib es f or t h e i r votes. He then objected to the vote of John Dunn. The brother-in-law of the voter deposed that shortly after the election Dunn told him that be had received 81. ss. 6d. for voting for Mr. Gisborne. The witness was under examination when the Speaker was announced to be at prayers, and the Committee then adjourned until to-morrow. SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE. (LLOYD'S.) DEAL, JUNE. 26.—Wind W. S. S. moderate.—Arrived the Elizabeth, Whitmore, from Jamaica; Mersey, Mather, St. John's, New Brunswick; and Euphemia, Butt, New foundland. Sailed Emma, Chapman, for Algoa Bay; Hartlepool, Hubbard, New York ; Guineaman, Freeman, Cape Coast Castle, with the rest of the outward bound. PLYMOUTH, JUNE 26.—Wind S. W. to S. S. E.—Arrived the Orion, Hill, Odessa; and Atalanta, Malcolm, Stettin. FALMOUTH, JUNE 25.—Wind S. to S. E. moderate.— Arrived the Joseph Fenton, Cooke, from Messina; and Queen, Cooper, Marseilles. LIVERPOOL, JUNE 26.—Wind N. E. moderate.—Arrived the Salon, Wood, tram Mobile ; Ambassador, Davies, Galveston ; and Port Royal, Ohrt, St. Petersburg. Off port—Laura, New South Wales. Sailed, the Tyrer, Shad well, for Canton; Hebe, Green, Rio Janeiro; Australia, English, Bahia; Mansfield, Edmonds, Africa; Mohawk, King, New York ; Niagara, Cole, Philadelphia ; Ben Morgan, .Johnstone, Charleston ; Rosine, Delane, New York ; Columbine, Mason, St. John's, New Brunswick ; and Ganges, Corkan, Quebec. UNIVERSITY OF LONDON. FIRST B. A. EXAMINATION FOR IIONOURS. Mr. Waley, of University College, bas gained the &bo la-ship (the highest attainable honour) in Mathematics and Natural Philosophy; and the following is the order of proficiency of the Candidates for Honours in Classes : Waley University College. Case Ditto ~ Ridley Ditto I equal. Butterworth.. King's College. Ball Ditto. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, JUNE 27. The SPEAKER took the chair shortly before Four o'Clock. Mr. OSWALD took the oaths and his seat for Glas. gow in the room of Lord William Bentinck, deceased. Returns were presented froth the Custom House. On the motion of Mr. LIDDELL the Lords amend. merits to:the West Durham Railway Bill, were agreed to Mr. BAINES brought up the Report of the Com• mittee on the Pontefract Honour Courts Bill. • Mr. HAYTER brought up the Report of the Com mittee on Ivanoff's Naturalization Bill, which was read a third time, and passed. Mr. GREENE brought up the Report of the Com mittee on the Duke of Buckingham's Estate Bill, which was read a third time, and passed. The HON. MEMBER also brought up the Committee on the Rotherham Small Debts Bill. On the motion of Mr. BARNARD the Deptford Pier Bill was read a third time and passed. On the motion of Mr. LOCKHART the Lords amendments to the Wishaw and Coltness Railway, and the Stamannan Railway Bills were agreed to. Robertson's Estate Bill and Sharpe's (or Giles's) Estate Bill were read a third time and passed. BELFAST WATER WORKS. Mr. O'CONNELL moved the second reading of the Belfast Water Works Bill. Mr. EMMERSON T ENNENT presented a petition from a Water Works Company in Bel fast against the Bill. He felt it his duty to oppose the further progress of the Bill, inasmuch as it was not desired by the people of Belfast. He defied the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin to produce a single petition in favour of the Bill ; on the contrary, every meeting of, the inhabitants had con demned it. He begged to call the attention of the House to the late period of the Session (within two or three weeks of the prorogation) at which the Bill was brought forward, when the parties opposing it could not take proper steps to defend their interests. The Hon. Member concluded by moving that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. Colonel VERNER hoped the House would permit the Bill to proceed. He would call the attentio❑ of the House to only one fact—that was that it was not of a party or political nature—(Laughter)—as it was proved by the Bill being introduced by himself, in conjunction with the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin. He trusted the House would send the Bill into Committee for the purpose of seeing whether it would benefit the people of Belfast. _ . Mr. O'CONNELL hoped the House would not stop the progress of the Bill in that stage. Belfast was in great want of water, thousands of the poor people being obliged to purchase it from water carriers in their cans. Belfast was the town which was increasing in Ireland—that inc rease b e i ng no less than Pi tha ra n2 dl ,o Y oo annually. The opponents of the Bill had appointed a surveyor, from whose report it appeared that the present supply was only 112 gallons per minute, and the necessary supply amounted to 509 gallons per minute. There was a sum of 2,5004 paid annually to the water-carriers. Was that a situation in which a manufacturing town like Belfast ought to be left ? If the opponents of the Bill had any merits, why should they not go before the Committee, and not take the obnoxious step of opposing the second reading ? The case for the Bill was so strong, that he would not trouble the House with more than one fact. The Bill did not impose any rate or tax. All they wanted was the power to sell water, and obtain payment from those who were customers. Captain PECHELL supported the B:11, as the Hon. Member for Belfast had made a most extraordinary failure in his opposition to it. Mr. DUNBAR was perfectly aware that the Bill was no party one, for all parties in Belfast were opposed to it. There had not been one petition for the Bill. Would 'there not had the people been in such a destitute state as described ?' He hoped the House would follow the precedent d the Hon. Member for Brighton, and throw the Bill out on the second reading.—.( Hear, hear.) Mr. O'CONNELL observed that the Hon. Member for Belfast had not denied the statements in the Report made by their-own surveyor. Mr. E. TENNENT then rose to make some obser vation, but was prevented by Mr. O'Connell and seve ral other Members near him crying " Order, order," " Spoke, spoke." The SPEAKER said it certainly was contrary to the rule of the House for any Member to speak more than once, except in explanation, in any discussion. Sir J. GRAHAM (to whom Mr. Tennent apparently communicated what he had wished to mention to the House) stated he should not have troubled the House, if- the Honourable Member for Belfast had not been prevented making known an important fact (notwith standing the Honourable Member for Dublin had, by the courtesy of the House, addressed. them more than once, although not in explanation), which was this that at a meeting in Belfast, called by public adver tisement, a resolution was agreed to, stating that any application to Parliament for a Bill establishing a private company should be opposed as oppressive, impolitic, and unnecessary, and that their representatives be requested to give their vigorous opposition to such measure, as it would increase the rates.—(Cheers.) Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided. For the second reading .. lO7 Against it Majority in favour of the Bill On the motion of Mr, HODGES, the Earl of Darn ley's Estate Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. GREENE brought up the Report of the Com mittee on the Dublin and Drogheda Railway Bill. Mr. FINCH presented a petition from Walleall, in favour of the Government plan of education. Mr. BAINES said that he had to present a petition affecting the manufacturing and commercial interests of this country ; and as the petition related to a matter which required the immediate attention of the: Govern ment, he should state to the House its material con tents and prayer. This was the petition of the mer chants, manufacturers, and other inhabitants of the town and neighbourhood of Leeds interested in the woollen and woollen stuff trades. - The petitioners alleged that the trade and manufactures of this country had been seriously injured by the regulation of the Ger manic Commercial League, and by the want of a commercial treaty found e d on the principles of free and unrestricted intercourse between this country and the States included in- that League. That independent of the general principles of the Ger manic Commercial League, there are several circum stances connected with its details which imperiously de mand the attention of this country. Before the foun dation of the Tariff the standard of duty on English goods was 101, per cent. ad valorem, but that duty is now levied by weight, and the result has been to in crease the impost on English goods to a very alarming extent, and operates upon certain woven fabrics, almost to their exclusion, the amount being in some cases not less than thirty, forty, and fifty per cent, instead of the original duty of ten per cent.—(Hear, hear.) That this evil is likely to be aggravated by a prospec tive change, which, unless guarded against, will have the effect of still further increasing these exorbitant duties at least 7 per cent. The petitioners further al lege that a meeting, consisting of the repre sen t a ti ves of the different St a t es inclu ded in the Germanic Commercial League is appointed to be held at Berlin in the month of July in the present year, for the regulation of the general affairs of the League, and that the sittings of this year appear to the petitioners to be peculiarly impor tant, inasmuch as two Members of the Confede racy, who have the largest trade with England, viz., Prussia and Saxony, must give notice before January, 1840, of any alteration which they wish to have made in these duties, and unless those States give such no tice, the terms of the present League or treaty must con. tinue in force for twelve years longer. The petitioners say that they are informed that the merchants of Leipsic are petitioning their Government to return to the original standard of taxation, viz. 10 per cent. ad valorem on the manufactures imported, and that the King of the Netherlands has lately made a treaty favourable to his subjects with the members of the Germanic Commercial League, and that the City of Hamburg has also suc ceeded in obtaining equally satisfactory terms. They further submit to this House that the present is a crisis highly favourable to the negotiation of a commercial treaty with the States comprised in the Germanic Com mercial League. .A.nd thex . pray . that, M n eilsures may be taken to secure tic aetenJance of some dilly autho rized and competent representative of the British Go vernment at the approaching sitting of the Commission at Berlin, to promote a commercial treaty between this country and the Germanic States, on the principles of a free . And unrestricted intercourse. The Hon. Gen tleman concluded by moving that the petition should be printed with the votes, and by signifying his Intention to bring the subject under the consideration of the House by a substantive motion on Tuesday week. Mr. R. PALMER presented a petition from some place in Berkshire, against the National Education system proposed by the Government. BARRACKS. An HoN. MEMBER on the opposition side of the House gave notice that on the first Committee of Supply he would call the attention of the House to the state of many of the Barracks in Great Britain, and their inefficiency for the reception of troops. COMMUNICATION WITH DUBLIN. Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice of a motion for an address to her tlajesty, that she would be graciously pleased to give directions to institute an inquiry into the best means of communication between London and THE - SITN. LONDON. FRIDAY, JUNE 28. 1839 RAILWAYS. Mr. GREENE presented a petition from the Lancaster and Preston Railway Company com plaining that a Committee of the House had ne gatived the right (as we understood) of the proprie tors of Companies for competing lines, or lines not in actual formation, to oppose newly projected lines of Railway. The Hon. Member stated some of the grounds which were urged in support of the prayer of the petition, which was, that all competing lines might oppose, as well as those in existence. But he spoke in so inaudible a tone that we were unable to hear with any degree of accuracy the purport of what he said. Lord JOHN RUSSELL gave notice of his inten tion to move for leave to bring in a Bill to suspend the appointment to ecclesiastical preferments for another year. _ _ The dropped orders and notices of motion of Wed nesday were then disposed of. ECCLESIASTICAL DUTIES AND REVE NUES BILL. On the motion for re-instating the dropped order on his Bill, Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he understood a wish had been expressed that the Committee on this Bill should be postponed. He was quite aware that there were many reasons why it would be desirable that the Bill should not be proceeded with further at the pre sent period of the Session. It was stated that there would be a difficulty in the other House of Parliament, in obtaining a full attendance of as many Spiritual Lords as would be desirable. It was likewise stated that an imprecsion prevailed among many Hon. Members of that House, and out of doors, upon what grounds he would not attempt to say, that some proposition was intended to be made, or some modification proposed, which would gain more general assent to the Bill. He certainly felt desirous that the Bill, whenever it passed, should have the general consent of Parliament and of the Church. He was, therefore, not unwilling to postpone the consideration sf the Bill ; but he cer tainly should be very reluctant to postpone it, if it was considered that that postponement would be at all giving up the objects which the Bill was intended to carry into effect, or the principles contained in it. But it was quite necessary that what the Bill proposed should be carried into effect by some Parliamentary enactment. Therefore, in postponing the measure, he wished, at the same time, to propose the Bill of which he had just given notice, for suspend ing certain Cathedral dignities. He was aware that that was a course liable to objection if it were repeated year after year without the prospect of coming to some termination. What he proposed, therefore, was that in the Bill to be introduced the vacancies which took place should not be filled up. He should therefore propose that the Ecclesiastical Duties and Revenues' Bill be postponed, with a view to ascer taining whether the Bill for the suspension of Cathedral Dignities was likely to receive the assent of Parliament. If that Bill did not receive the assent of Parliament then he should give up the other Bill for the present Session. But whatever the inconvenience might be, he should think it necessary to press the Bill in order to show that he was not disposed to abandon either the principle or the manner in which it was proposed to be carried into effect. He should, therefore, propose that the Bill be postponed till that day fortnight. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. Sir ROBERT PEEL thought a better opportunity would not be offered him of suggesting to the Noble Lord (as the present was the last week of the sitting in the month of June), the propriety of announcing, not on that day, but at his earliest convenience, what were those Bills with which the Noble Lord intended to proceed during the present Session, and what Bills he intended to postpone. That was a course which had been generally taken at an earlier period of the Session—(Hear, hear)—but he was satisfied that it would greatly facilitate the discussion of those Bills which were to be discussed, if the Noble Lord would state what Bills respecting Scotland, England, and Ireland were to be proceeded with. He hoped an early day would be fixed for the Canada Bill, and he thought it right to state that. he should feel it his duty to oppose that Bill. He did not contest the principle, but he must contest its being affirmed, if it were not intended to be carried out during the present Session. If he were to hold that it was intended bona fide to legislate during the present Session for the union of the Canadas, he would be pre pared to accede to it—if they were to enact something upon the principle being affirmed. He would not oppose the second reading,- if they were to follow it with actual, legislation for the Canadas, other wise he must by some means oppose the second reading, on the ground that, the question could not be discussed without entering into. various considerations which ought certainly to be followed by some enact ments, because if the discussions in that House were to go out to Canada, and be considered there for some six or eight moths without anything having been done by that House, it might great l y prejudice le fu ture legislation upon the question. He should not di rectly oppose the second reading of the Bill, but he would feel it to be his duty to move either the previous question or the passing to the other Orders of ,the Day, in order to mark his sense of the impropriety of affirming a principle without other legislation. He would feel it to be his duty to pursue the same course with other measures. To many Bills on the table he had no objection in principle ; he would agree to the second reading of many of them if it were proposed to proceed to legislate upon them,-but if it were intended to propose the second reading, merely for the purpose of affirming the principle—with out proceeding with legislation during the present Ses sion—he must take the same course, and invite the House to refuse their assent to any principle upon which it was not proposed to legislate during the pre sent Session. Lord J. RUSSELL would certainly take an early opportunity of informing the House as to the Bills which the Government intended to proceed with during the present Session. There were several Bills which had been already abandoned, therefore it would not be necessary for him to make any fresh declaration with respect to them. He would take advantage of the offer made by the Right Hon. Baronet, he would cer tainly take time to consider before he named the Bills, because in the hurry at the end of last session be had postponed one unintenti ona lly an d for that oversight he bad been very much blamed. He might take that opportunity of stating, however, for the information of the gentlemen connected with Scotland, and the House generally, that with regard to the queitions connected with that part of the country, - there were three Bills that would certainly be proceeded with. They were the Salaries of Judge's Bill, the Prisons Bill, and the Bankrupts Estates (Scotland) Bill. These three Bills would certainly be proceeded with this Session, but it was notintended to press to a f ur th er stage any other Bill s re l a tive to Scotland. As to the Bills respecting Canada, he was afraid some misapprehen sion might exist regarding the Right Hon. Gentleman's statement if it was not further explained. There were two Bills which the Government had obtained leave to introduce respecting Canada. • There was one which Le had already stated they did not mean to pro ceed with during the present Session ; but there was another, with respect to the powers conferred by Act of Parliament on the Governor and Special Council, ' which it was the intention of the Government to pro ceed with this Session. He hoped the Right Hon. Gen tleman's statement did not refer to that Bill, because, after what passed last year with respect to the Judges in Canada, he should certainly think it necessary to press that Bill. He would not then enter into the question of whether it was politic or impolitic to ask for the second reading of - the Bill respecting the union of Canada this year, . but would enter into that, when the question should he regularly before the House.—(Hear.`, He would take that opportunity of stating with regard to the Orders of the Day, that he had understood from a Right Hari. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Shaw), it was the wish of himself and same other Members that the Irish Municipal Corporation' Bill should not- stand for to-morrow. Now; he con fessed he bad not heard any reason for that post ponement. It appeared to him they were ready to enter into the discussion of .that Bill ; and as they were now speaking of the proceedings of the House, it might be as well for the Right Hon. Gentleman to state why he wished postponement. Sir R. PEEL—Let us take Canada first.—(Laugh ter.) He was quite aware the Noble Lord had two Bills relating to Canada, and distinctly under stood with respect to one of the Bills, it was the intention of the Noble Lord to proceed to effective le giAation in the course of the present Session. His ob jection (lid not apply to that Bill. His impression was that he should not oppose the principle of that Bill. All he intended to do was to oppose the principle of any Bill on the second reading, which the Government s' ated it was not their intention to carry out this Session. Mr. SHAW said, with respect to the Irish Corpo ration Bill, he would state vrhy it was not convenient to proceed- with it to-morrow; The Noble Lord had stated his intention to bring on that Bill, and another (the Controverted Elections Bill) to-morrow night, the latter of which would take a considerable time. Another reason, that on the last night on which the Souse 'sat it was not understood that. he meant to pro ceed with it this Session. It would be more convenient for the House to understand 'positiyely when it would come on, and that some other night should be fined.. Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN appealed to the Noble Lord to give precedence to the Irish Corporation Bill to-morrow. • He thought it would be inconvenient to delay it longer. for -a great number of his friends were anxious to leave town next week. Sir D. ROACH also ex p resse d hi s w i s h t h at th e Bill might come on early to-morrow night. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, as there had been a very full attendance this week, he did not think there was any necessity for postponing the Bill beyond to-morrow, although he could not agree with his Hon. Friend behind him, who proposed thatit Afield take precedence, of the Controverted Elections Bill. That Bill had stood over for a considerable time, and he thought it would not require any long time to settle the remaining points in question. He did not think that the business could be arranged so as to suit all parties, and he did not think it fair for Hon. Members to object because they happened to be en gaged for dinner.—(A laugh.) Sir R. PEEL did not think that was any ground for delay ; but as it was a Bill of importance, they ought to know that it would come on on a certain day. There were 280 . clausesla the Bill. It had been pretty often before the House, but he ' had not a perfect recollection of all the clauses. He should be so much engaged to morrow with the Election Jurisdiction Bill, that he should have no leisure to .attend to one word of the other. He suggested that the Bill should be fixed for Thursday next, and would venture to say in .that case there would be no disposition to enter into any prelimi nary discussion. Mr. HUME said this question pressed very much with regard to the people of Ireland, and he hoped the Noble Lord would take it to-morrow without tiiil. Ireland expected something, but, nothing had yet been done for her. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said it was not to be sup posed they could get through the 280 clauses to-morrow. There was one point cspe&ally in the Bill which had been frequently a matter of difference in the House, and baying taken the discussion on that question he should postpone the consideration of the clauses till some future day. SUMMARY JURISDICTION BILL. Mr. KELLY wished to know if it was the intention of Government to proceed with the Summary Juris diction Bill during the present Sessio n ? Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Yes. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL. Mr. LUCAS wished to ask the Hon. Member for Waterford whether he intended to proceed with the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill during the present Session? Mr. BARRON was understood to say that he should take the sense of the House on the principle of the Bill. CONTRACT AND VAGRANCY LAWS IN THE COLONIES. Sir S. LUSHINGTON wished to ask the Under Secretary for the Colonial Department, whether any in formation had reached the Colonial-office from the Le gislature of Barbadoes, communicating the information that they had passed two laws on the subjects of con tracts and vagrancy, in conformity with the Orders in Council. Mr. LABOUCHERE had the satisfaction to state in reply to the question of the Honourable and Learned Member, that information had been received from Bar badoes, that the Legislature of that Colony had passed laws on the subject of vagrancy and contracts in exact conformity with the Orders in Council.—(Tory cheers.) Also that in the Island of St. Vincent a law on the subject of contracts in exact conformity with the Order in Council had been passed by that Legislature. FACTORY BILL. Lord ASHLEY w i s h e d to as k t h e N o ble Lord what course he intended to pursue with respect to the Factory Bill. In consequence of the numerous delays which had taken place from February to July, all the parties interested had left London, and he should be ob liged to write to them that they may be in town on that day. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I stated in the face of the House that the Factory Bill would take precedence os the other orders on Monday next ; and I have only to repeat that notification. HOSTILITIES IN THE EAST. Mr. HUME asked the Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Foreign Department, whether, after the news which had been received to-day from the East, of hos tilities having commenced there, he would have any objection to lay b e f ore t h e H ouse t h e tre aty or conven tion made in 1833 ( at some p l ace, t h e n ame_of whi c h was quite unint e lli g ibl e to our ears ). Lord PALMERSTON said there had been no formal , treaty or convention, but merely an arrangement between the Sultan and the Paella of Egypt, by which the Sultan undertook to nominate Mehemet Ali Governor of certain pachalics, and which had hitherto been executed merely by the annual list of pachas. With respect to the dispatches on the subject, he would read them over, and see if he could produce them ; he did not at present see any objection. THE EDUCATION VOTE.—CARRIED. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I beg to ask the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, whether he intends to rake the sense of the House upon the Report of the Education Vote ? Sir R. PEEL said he intended to hare made his reply to that question yesterday, had it not been for the accidental circumstance of a House not having been formed. He would now state, that as he believed the House considered the subject had been exhausted in point of debate—as the question upon the Re port would be identically the same with that which had been decided in Committee, and as he had ascertained that every Member of the house had voted upon the subject, except 24, he deemed it unnecessary to trouble the House by another division. He did not, therefore, propose to take the sense of the House on the Report, and had no objection to its being received now. Lord J. RUSSELL accordingly moved that the Report be now received. Mr. F. BARING brought up the Report. Sir E. WILMOT ssished not to enter into a discus sion upon the subject, but to call the attention of the Noble Lord to a subject intimately connected with it. The Noble Lord was aware, from the Report of the Charity Commissioners, that there was an immense fund applicable to the purpose of education which was wholly squandered away. There were grammar schools well endowed, in almost every town in England, which were almost wholly useless. There was one in the county of Warwick, where a gentleman for many years had en joyed a house, and an income amounting to 4001. a year, but as it was a grammar-school, the Lord Chancellor had dsoided that he could teach.only Latin. The con sequence was, that for many years he had only one boy as a scholar, who stammered so abominably that nobody knew what he said.—(A laugh.) In Macclesfield he believed the trustees of the grammar-school, by arrange ment, applied to .the Lord Chancellor, and a new scheme was introduced, which had been most beneficial. He wanted to know whether the Noble Lord would bring in any Bill to enable the trustees of grammar schools to enlarge the scheme of their trusts, subject to the approbation of the Chancellor.—( Hear, hear.) The result would be, that in place of gentlemen getting large salaries for doing nothing, there would be funds suffi cient for the education of tradesmen's sons free. Lord J. RUSSELL said Lord Brougham had paid much attention to the subject, and last year introduced a Bill on it. He believed it would again be brought forward, and he trusted with success, as it was a mat ter of much importance. Mr. C. BULLER. said the country was deeply in debted to the Hon. Baronet for calling attention to that important subject. There was a fund which might and would educate the whole of England wholly wasted. He would state one case of the misapplication of these funds. One of the Commissioners of Charities told him that in three parishes in Lincolnshire which he had examined, there were general charities which were frittered away in slangs of ls., which did no good whatever, which might educate the whole of the people in those parishes.— (Hear, hear.) If the Government really had at heart the education of the people, the first subject to which they would turn their attention was the application of those charities to the purposes for which they were ori ginally founded. Mr. BROTHERT ON, in order to show the im portance of the suggestion of the Hon. Baronet oppo site, would mention that there was a grammar school in the neighbourhood of Manchester, with an income of 6,0001. a year, and in which, up to a very late period, not more than 200 scholars were instructed. At the present moment there were not more than 300 scholars, and yet the funds were sufficient to instruct and edcu cate a great portion of the children of the people of Manchester. Mr. T. EGERTON said the Hon. Member for Sal ford was labouring under considerable error. The trustees of that Charity were now acting according to a scheme settled by the Master in Chancery. They had appropriated the funds to two schools, one for classical education, and the other was open to the whole world, any individual might send his child there. It was un fair, when the trustees were acting under a decree of the Lord Chancellor, that the lion. Member should come forward, and declare in the House of Commons, that which was not in consonance with the facts. Captain PECHELL said they need not go so far north as Manchester. A most villanous subject was the Berkhampstead school—(Laughter)—in which the moat monstrous abases existed, that were ever divulged by the Charity Commissioners.—( Hear, and laughter.) Mr. R. ALSTON said that at Willoughby, in Lin colnshire, there was a school, the master of which had 6001. a year, and only one child attended it. Sir EDWARD SUGDEN hoped no scheme fOr the establishment of Commissioners of Education would be agreed to. At present there was a disposition to fritter- away the justice of the country by introducing tribunals for particular objects, and while the judicial business of the country was at a stand-still for want of suilicient force. He entirely objected to the suggestion thrown out by the Hon, and Learned Member for Lis kcard. Gentlemen should not forget that grammar schools were established for the sole, express, and only purpose of classical education ; that they had been of very great use, and that the persons now appointed were appointed as classical masters ; and to ask them to teach little boys reading and writing, would be one of the most unreasonable things in the world. He was one of those who thought part of the funds of th . ose charities might be used for general edu cation, that there might be a common school established as well as a classical school, but they ought not to trench on the original foundation so - as not to leave a sufficient sum for classical education, accord ing to the intention of the founder. He thought that in the new state of society both systems might be com bined with advantage to the public without acting ad versely to the real intentions of the testators.—( Hear.) Sir R. INGLIS did not mean to undervalue the im portance of a popular system of education, but he pro tested against the suggestion they had heard. If it were adopted it would be acting against the general principle that a testator might dispose of his property as he liked, provided he were not devising anything injurious to the public good. Sir E. WILMOT explained some points upon which he had been misrepresented. When some of these pro perties were devised they were not worth more than .50/. a vear, now they produced incomes of 5,000/.—(Hear.) We understood the Hon. Baronet to say that the schools of Birfield and Birmingham were already enlarged for the extended system of education they had heard re, commended. Sir R. PEEL said this was a question of sery great importance.—( Hear, hear.) There was one point which he wished to submit to the Learned Attorney-General. There were several schools for which trustees would be found willing to act, but an application to the Court of Chancery for authority would cost from 201. to 80/., and some of the foundations were too poor to afford so great an expense. He suggested that some summary form in the shape of clauses, to meet this difficulty, might be advantageously introduced both for the schools and the public, and this being once effected, and th e schools actually set t o wor k, he knew several gentlemen, so far ai the schools he knew of were concerned, who would cheerfully subscribe towards them. Lord JOHN RUSSELL promised to bring the suggestio❑ of the Right Hon. Baronet under the notice of leis Learned Friend. He thought it might be bend cially adopted, and he should always be glad to receive the advice of the Right Hon. Baronet on this subject, which he regarded as one of the most difficult now be- fore Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that they might safely adopt a middle course, not strictly follow ing the injunctions of the testators, nor yet so far de viating from them as some Hon. Gentlemen had sug gested. He had no doubt that an endowment might be well administered without literally following out the will of the testator, as had been insisted upon by the Hon. Baronet, the Member for the University of Oxford. He did not think that even be (Sir R. I.) would desire to see those wills literally acted upon in all cases. Should he like to see the money arising from some of the be quests made to the University of Oxford applied as the testators had required,—namely, for the saying of masses for the release of their souls from purgatory.—(Laugh ter, and " Hear, hear.") Sir R. INGLIS—WouId have no objection to agree to this if his Hon. Friend would first repeal the statute which had been introduced by another Lord Russell, which made the saying of masses unlawful.—(" Hear, hear," and laughter. The resolution was then agreed to. SALE 'OF BEER BILL. Petitions on either side of this question, were pre sented, amidst a confusion which rendered the names of the places and the precise object of the petitioners generally undistinguishable, by Mr. Warburton, pray ing to place the beer-sellers and the licensed vic tuallers under equal laws ; Sir B. Hall, Capt. Pechell, Lord Stanley, Lord Sandon, Sir Jatbes Duke, Sir IL Peel, from a body of teetotallers, against the beer-sellers — (Laughter)—the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Lord Worsley, and Mr. Cresswell. - On the motion that the House go into Committee on the Bill, Mr. HUME complained that no case had been made out against the beer-sellers by the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Pakington). He denied that the beer ! shops were the scenes of greater irregularities than the public-houses. He assented that they were even much less inculpated in this way. He therefore could not understand why houses in which a large share of pro perty had been invested, and which were as regular as could be expected—for they all knew the class of per. sons that resorted to them—should be charged by the Hon. Gentleman with being the centre of thefts and robberies. Had it been proved that the keepers of those houses were hostile to the laws, or flagrant vio- , lators of the regulations under which they were permitted to sell ? The only authority the Hon. Geetisman had been able to give them was that. of c: , :cs or two ano nymous letters ; but what were those in the face of the official returns which he (Mr. Hutne) should now refer to, and which would prove that the public house keepers were much greater violaters oF the law than the beer retailers. According to the re turns laid before the House, it appeared that in the year 1835 there were 29 dealers in retail convicted of adul terating beer, of whom 20 were licensed victuallers and only nine beer sellers.--(Hear, hear.) In 183 G, out of 146 convictions for the same offence, 144 were licensed victuallers, and two were beer sellers. (Hear, hear.) In 1837, there were 48 convictions—how many were there in that convict class of those whom the Hon. Gentleman had so severely attacked? Why— let the House attend to it—there was one beer seller and 47 licensed victuallers. (Hear, hear.) So much for the general comparative morality of the licensed victuallers and the beer sellers. He would now refer to the returns from London since the passing of the Bill. In 1830 there were summoned before the magi strates for irregularities 123 public house keepers, of whom 109 were convicted and 14 were dismissed : in the same year four beer sellers were summoned, and the four were dismissed.---(Hear, hear.) In 1831 out of 155. licensed victuallers summoned 143 were con victed. In the same year only ten beer sellers were convicted. And here he would remind the House that many of those transgressions for which the beer sellers were convicted, were for opening their houses half an hour earlier or keeping them open half an hour later than the time prescribed by the Act. Even a difference of five minutes rendered them liable to such a visitation. In 1837 there were summoned before the magistrates 546 licensed victuallers, of whom 519 were convicted and 27 were dismissed. In the same year of 241 beer-sellers summoned 207 were convicted and 24 were dismissed. In 1838 there were summoned 655 publicans ; 603 were convicted, and 52 were dismissed. The number of beer sellers summoned was 349, of whom 322 were convicted and 28 dismissed. In the whole period there had been summoned beforg, the Magistrates 2,519 publicans, and with all their difficulties only 1,008 beer sellers. After this he thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer should place houses of both descriptions under an exact equality of law. Why should they shut up the beer shops where men seldom did themselves so much injury, and leave the gin shops open, where men make them selves mad, and ready for the perpetration of any crime after filling themselves with ardent spirits ?—(Hear, hear.) Ile considered the Bill quite uncalled for, and should move as an amendment that it be committed that day six months. Mr. SANFORD opposed the statement of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, and said that the true state of the conduct of the beer-shops would be much better learned from those residing in the. respective .10- calities than from the official returns. So far back as the year 1494, it had been found necessary to issue le gislative restrictions on the selling of beer. In 1552 the restrictions were renewed. In 1787 the Secretary of State issued a circular to the Magistrates cautioning them against the system that prevailed in issuing licenses. He thought it absolutely necessary that some plan should be adopted for licensing these houses different from the present. All that was necessary now was to obtain the certificates of six householders of the neigh beurhood ; but if the excise officer by whom the license was granted took care to ascertain that the person aps plying was a man of good character and respectability, much of the present evil would be done away with. He thought the measure would be one of very general utility, and he hoped there would be no objection to going into Committee on the Bill. Lord DUNGANNON complained of the very un fair course which had been adopted by the Hon. Mem ber for Kilkenny in taking merely the returns for the metropolis, instead of taking the average of the entire country. Mr. HUM E.—Th ese returns are for the entire country. Lord DUNGANNON understood the Hon. Mem ber to refer merely to the Metropolitan returns. He would however give the House the returns for the Borough of Liverpool. which would show what the propor tion was between the offences of the two classes of houses ; In 1830-31 the number of convictions was—licensed victuallers 80, beer-houses 106 ; in 1831-32, licensed victuallers 82, beer-houses 81 ; in 1832-33, licensed victuallers 88, beer-houses 77 ; in 1833.34, licensed victuallers 72, beer-houses 95 ; in 1834-85, licensed victuallers 67, beer-houses 179 ; in 1835.36, licensed victuallers 193, beer-houses 312 ; in 1836-37, licensed victuallers 39, beer-houses 87 ; in 1837-38, licensed victuallers 83, beer-houses 135. That, he thought, was a fair criterion of the two classes of houses. He believed, if the Hon. Member made inquiries among the clergymen and magistrates from one end of the country to the other—front Northumberland to Corn wall—he would hear that a great portion of the vice and immorality existing among the agricultural classes was to be attributed to the establishment of beer houses. As a County Magistrate he could state that most of the robl9eries—not those of a trifling, but many of a much graver character—were concocted in the beer-houses, whose proprietors were, in most cases, men of no capital or property. Ile hoped the motion would be carried by a large majority. The CHANCELLOR .of the EXCHEQUER was not prepared for any opposition to the measure, and could not support the Hon. Member's amendment. —(I - Iear.) He had stated, on a former occasion, the course he meant to pursue, which was, when the Bill went into Committee, to endeavour to equalize the condition of the two classes of houses so far as he could. He had further stated that if he failed in Isis endeavours to make the Bill just between the two parties, he should undoubtedly then join the Hon. Member in voting against the Bill on the report being brought up to the third reading. It appeared that the number of signa tures to the petitions presented in favour of equalizing the laws between the two classeS of houses were 248,000. Now if the statements of the Noble Lord opposite relative to the immorality and vice of these beer houses, was true, instead of supporting the present Bill, he ought to move for the total repeal of the Beer Bill.—(Hear, hear.) In fact, if the statements were not exaggerated, he ought to proceed criminally against the parties.—( Hear, hear.) He should take the liberty of refuting some of the very extraordinary statements of the Noble Lord. It was was assumed in the first place, that the Beer-shops altogether were disreputable places, that their owners were men of no character or property, and that they were all hot beds of vice. He would show that there was no ground whatever for these statements. The House would hardly believe that the property invested in these houses was very considerable. He held in his hand a letter from one party, who stated that he had invested 4,0001. in the establishment of a beer-shop.—(Hear, hear.) It might be said that that was only an individual case, but he had a return of 360 Beer-shops, and the total amount of the rental was 8,226/. ; the amount of capital invested was 74,2101., and that was but a small proportion of the 40 or 50,000 houses which they were called upon to legislate for. He would now give the Noble Lord another instance, and he would take a case from the metropolis. There was a beer-shop in Mile end, the property of an individual owner, the value of the house and fixtures was 1,500/., the stock 1,325/., and that was one of the class which the Honourable Gentleman opposite represented as persons without property, and in many cases without character. Lord DUNGANNON had merely alluded to beer houses in agricultural districts. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Noble Lord and those Hon. Members who had dis cussed the question, had brought the arguments as against the whole body, and he, for one, could not al low them to back out of the question in that way.— (Hear, hear.) The next case was that of a beer shop in Ratcliffe street. The value of the house was 6001., and of the stock 5001. Then with respect to residence, which was an excellent test of character, there were in stances of 8,6, 10, 16, 5, and even 23 years constant residence in one house, the parties paying rates and taxes,and contributing to parochial and other dues during all that time, and yet they were told that these men were wholly without capital, and altogether devoid of respec tability.—( Hear, hear.) There was another point to which he wished to call the attention of the House. In stating the want of capital embarked in that trade, he had not taken into account the amount of capital em barked by brewers, and if that were added to it, would form a sum total which would entirely astonish Hon. Members. He would take the number of licensed brewers before and after the passing of the Beer Bill, and he would begin two years before the passing of the Act. In the first year, the number of licensed brewers was 27,161 ; in the year after the passing of the Bill it was 36,284 ; but in th e f o ll ow i ng y ear the number was 42,976 ; and in the one following that 43,087. Therefore there was an addition of capital of from 27,161 brewers to 43,087, the, number of licensed brewers in the last year, and he wished Hon. Members, and more especially landed proprietors, to re collect that it was these brewers who furnished a market for their barley, and formed a peat addition to the de mand for the agricultural produce of the country.— ( Hear, hear.) He was merely applying himself to the arguments that there was no capital embarked in these beer houses. He held in his hand another return of a very extraordinary nature, and to which he would call the attention of Hon. Members opposite. Nothing was more easy than to say that the licensed victuallers as a class were all men of wealth and independence ; while the keepers of beer shops were men without capital. I - 1: had procured a return from the Excise Offi cers of the the number of public-houses and beer-houses withinn ie of respective collections extending over the England. It appeared by that r eturn - number of public-houses was 55,513, and that th the num e ber of beer shops linceused to s ell N b l e v er ofe to th b s : consumed on the premises, 36' 054 . ,) 55,000 public houses, the owners of which were sup. posed to represent so much wealt h and capital, there were 18,379 who rented h o uses under 10/. yearly value.—( Hear, hear.) And it should be remembered that the value of the house was increased by the license, EVENING, EDITION so that the 10/. was not the rent, but a fictitious value, Amongst tic beer shops there were inbahitirg houses under 61. in value, 1,858 ; and over 5/. in value 34,196. That, however, might net be considered a fair mode of comparison, and he would take the question in another point of view. There were of publicans inhabitating houses under 10/. in yearly value. 18,379 ; ar d beer shops snider 10/. yearly "value, 15,318. It should be sides be borne in mind that the value of the public houses was increased by the license, which was not the case with the beer houses. What, then, became of the ex aggerated statements of the wealth of the one class, and the absence of capital of the other, which had been put forward by Hon. Members opposite.—( Hear, hear.) He would lay these papers on the table of the House, because he thought they would go far to dispel the de lusion that existed on this subject. He did not how ever think it would be wise to continue the licence to houses rented under five pounds, and there ought to be new police regulations. The deputati on o f beer sellers who had had an interview with him had thought that instead of that being a hardship it would be a protec tion to their trade, and had assented to the proposition. They stated it was the want of police regulations in small places that had raised the storm against them, and they were perfectly willing to acquesce in the proposed modification.—(Hear, hear.) He had now disposed of that part of the case which related to the value of the property ; and he had shown the contrast between the one class and the other was founded on entire delusion. He now came to an important question, that which re ferred to crime; and the assertions that had been made on this subject were just as gratuitous and unfounded as they were on the other. Could the Noble Lord oppo site prove that crime had increased, and then prove that that increase had arisen from the beer shops ?---- ( Hear, hear.) A table had been prepared at the Home-office on this subject, from which he (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) had deduced the following conclusions. Increased commitments were not conclu sive proof of an increase of crime, because that might arise from the establishment of a more active police or greater facilities of prosecution.—(Hear, hear.) Yet it might be assumed that a decrease in the number of commitments was proof of the decrease of crime. He would take the four years average before the Beer Bill and the four years average after the Beer Bill. The mean ratio of increase in criminal commitments for 1826 to 1829 inclusive showed an average increase of commitments of 7:1 per cent. in England and Wales. In the four years subsequent to the passing of the Beer Bill there was not an increase of 71 per cent but 2 per cent. only.—(Cheers.) What became therefore of the statement that crime bad absolutely in creased ?—(Hear, hear.) Now was this crime attri butable to the Beer-shops ? In twenty of the largest agricultural counties, there was a decrease in commit ments altogether. Some gentlemen have said that sheep-stealing was the child of the beer shops, and that such a thing as sheep-stealing was never heard of before the beer shops. The paper he held in his band stated, that it might be generally remarked, that offences com mitted by the rural population had decreased,such as cattle stealing, and that the offences against the Game Laws had decreased 45 per cent. That would answer at once the statement of the Noble Lord, that crime had in creased in the agricultural districts since the passing of the Beer Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He could trouble the House with further evidence on this subject, but he was reluctant to occupy the time of the House by doing so ne did not deny that crime might, more or less, be at tributed to intoxicating liquors. It was at public houses and beer-shops that people, having no house of their own, would congregate ; but the question was , whether every evil and every crime could be traced ex clusively and essentially to the beer-shops ? There was a greater chance of crime originating in public houses than in beer-shops, because, as his Hon. Friend the Member for Kilkenny had observed, ardent spirits were more likely to inflame the passions and to e xcite persons to violent acts than beer. Indeed Hogarth had very powerfully drawn the contrast between Gin Alley and Beer Lane.—(Hear, hear.) He s hould support the motion for going into Committee, because he wished to consider impartially the interests of both parties ; but he thought nothing would tend more to diminish the House in the estimation of the public than a want of consistency —a sort of blowing hot and cold —at one time raising great interests, and at a nother pulling them down. This Bill had been introduced and carried after full inquiry —the objections urged now were urged then ; evidence was taken upon them and the Bill introduced by the Government which preceded Lord Grey's, passed as one of the best legislative mea sures, and as one of the boldest and most effective financial reforms, and for which the Government who introduced it deserved the thanks of the country. If a proposition should be entertained for overturning dm who!e of this trade, no confidence whatever would be placed in:the proceedings of Parliament. If the House did not adopt the amendments of which he had give notice, he should certainly oppose the Bill altogether. Lord DUNGANNON explained. Lord ELIOT said the whole of the.address of the Chancellor of the Exchequer had been a panegyric on beer-shops—(Hear)—but the Magistrates with whom he had communicated in different parts of the country had taken a very different view of the subject. But he (Lord Eliot) admitted that a great part "of the evil"l might be attributed to the inefficient controul over the beer-shops. With a rural police a great many of the ' evils might be remedied.—( Hear, hear.) He should vote for going into Committee, but he did not think the Bill of his Hon. Friend best calculated to effect the ob ject he lied in view. —( Hear, hear.) lie was o pp o sed to the principle of making property the test of respec tability.—(Hear.) Mr. W ARB URTO N recommended his Hon. Friend, the Member for Kilkenny, to accede to the suggestion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He thought that Right Hon. Gentleman had given a trium phant answer to the remarks that had fallen from the Noble Lord opposite, as well as to other remarks which had been made on the subject of beer-houses. The beer-seller was subjected to restrictions which the li censed victualler was not, and in his opinion was that both should be put upon an equality. Captain WOOD said he thought it right to state, that in the London district, while the licensed victual lers were 4,300, the beer-shops were only 1,560 ; so that the convictions were two to one, and the numbers as three to one. Lord WORSLEY said, as a County Magistrate, he felt bound to make a few observations. He certainly did not attribute the increase of crime to the beer -shop s exclusively.—( Hear, hear.) But the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated that crime had decreased. Now that might be the case in large towns, but in the coun try he (Lord Worsley) was afraid that the efficiency of the town police had but tended to drive bad characters into the rural districts.—( Hear, hear.) Certainly he much cloubted if crime had really diminished so much as 45 per cent. At all events, that was not the case in his own county, where the depredations upon the farmers had greatly increased.—( Hear.) The far mers, indeed, generally complained most grievously of the existing law, stating that their servants bad thereby great facilities for drinking, and that their con duct had, since the passing of that law, become much worse. Of one thing he was convinced, that the state provedof t the cou untiln t rayn weoffiu e l le d n n t e t p ' e a r become a b t u h l a o r r y o u vv gl a i l s y es i: - . blished.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped the Bill would be allowed to go into Committee, though he was by no ' means so sanguine as to the benefits •to be expected from it, yet he felt that some alteration in the law was imperatively called for.---( Hear, hear.) • Mr. PA KINGTON said he was not prepared for such a discussion upon the Committee, which he thought would have better taken place upon the second reading. Ile must olsserve that a great part of the speech of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer was against a Bill now before the House—a Bill for entirely doing away with the beer houses. The Hon. Member for Kilkenny had said that no case had been made • . out fUr the present Bill, an observation which he • (Mr. Pakington) would not take the trouble to refute. —(Hear, hear.) The capital alleged to be invested in the beer-houses was very unequally distributed ; a nd the proposal, that they should be such as were rated at 10/. or LW., would secure respectability. As to the argument drawn from the returns of the London dis trict, it was sufficient to observe that the licensed vie' tuallers were to the beer houses as sto 1. No one ethsltielintding from could be more desirous than himself of putting down all the, misery and vice connected with spirit houses ; but because such misery and vice were connected with the spirit houses, were the evils associated with the her shops to go unrernedied ?—(Hear, hear.) It was in evidence before the Committee of 1834, that the Sat! , of spirits had been increased by the competition erets4- quent upon the passing of the Beer Act.—(Rear, hear.) If it had been proved that the public :louses were the haunts of vice, they would have . been equally called out against ; but no such complaint had been directly under the controul of the Magistrates, which made. Besides, the licensed victuall sd e .i r_ n s' it(t l ie t id o e u at s rh e , s abte n sa • verar.s; ho ll u e se a w N a o s w not as the tn t the question u w e i s t t h i o t i h i o e th ese e b eer crime, most important—(Hear, hear)— i anG that unless he could show that the beer-houses were haunts of vice, and injurious to the w orking classes, he had no right to ask Hear, hear.) But the them.—( established any case in throughout the country had not general statistical o b f e been crime, established th at therefore e that refa r t e h e t i b i e e y e , r -Ii o wereu rt t iel l ti i tei e gui rirliitt,f;lu,i that osoeun favour to creb ryei mn merelyte e restricttmha r in creased. The real question was, whether it had not ses were strongly the ob j e h u a t u i u n n t . s able, and the ground of jut and general complaint? Now he contended that this had been abundantly • proved. He would refer emphatically to the numerous confessions of men who had been executed under sentence of the law.—(Oh, oh, from the Liberal Members, and Hear, from the Opposition.) Surely Hon. Members would. - not disregard the declarations of dying men, as to the causes which had led to their unhappy fate.—(Hear.) And he could cite many such declarations of rio:n upon the scaffold, that their crime and their misery were at tributed to beer-houses. He could also quote many confessions of those who had become the inmates of gaols, through the evil associations which they had