The Sun. — London, England, 1844-04-25 00:00:00

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. )ItOK THE EVENING PAPERS OF YESTERDAY. GLOBE.—We may now, we think, consider our selves as pretty completely justified in the intention we expressed of calling certain assertions by no other n ame than F erranc l s ,— a lth o ugh there is a name snorter by one syllable for assertions of the sort we Vude to. O n any po i n t, th ere f o r e , referring to the Loor-la w or Factory question, whenever an assertion 1 , 1 : 15 3' be put forth in any quarter, which neither Proof nor probability = neither document nor fact °f any kind can be brought to vouch—whenever an assertion is put forth which no man of honour would hare made, without anything to adduce its ground, or any idea that the only alternative f ora man of honour is to support or retract his words -- to state on what supposed ground he uttered them, apologise for them, as words which should not &sa . re been uttered—whenever such a s sertion shall come before us in future, thus gross, thus unsupported 7- we:shall be saved a world of trouble in describing its character, by s i mp l y t rea ti ng it as a " Ferrand." Fernand and his friends are, indeed, right worthy of each oth er; an d we re j o i ce to have found so succinct an expression for the style of assertion characteristic of them as of him. The Times, Post, and Herald are tyi.i.ittefthattavaloss to imagine how it should be expected %able friend should justify in one place what he L' e , said in another. Sufficient for the day to tens thereof; what Mr. Ferrand said e r s - s l c : et a h t ing one time, he could not expect .gentlemen to call him to account for at another... to be said in favour of this view of the matter; and it has at least the advantage of Setting, for all future time, all assertions of Mr. Fer rand (endorsed, as the case may be, by Times, Post, °r neralor) at their just value. Those who like to t ake such inconvertible currency may. He and they 111 It'Y fly any more such kites as they think proper; their reciprocal attestations will henceforth only 'flake the most predestined dupes. The citation of 'Mr. Ferrand's authority will render quite harmless anything else that follows ; and the broadsides of the Times and his other confede rates will flash a mere brutum fulmen, whenever they seek to blaze away in future with Ferrands in lieu' of facts. Thank heaven, one " tall bully" at l east may henceforth " lift his head and lie," as un cuallenged as the old original Monument—and for the s a,rne reason. We pave always thought it a pity the O ld flagrant inscription brazens it out no longer ; and we should think it a still greater pity that Mr. Fer rand should henceforth be treated by any one as an ac countable being. There are varieties of vermin 11 ' hich fe e d on eac h o th er • there are newspaper agita tions which require such pabulum as the speeches, F b a nd which nourish, in turn, the notoriety of a 4:erra n d . STANDARD.—The unpleasant and unprofitable s cene of Monday night was last night renewed in the Rouse of Commons. Mr. Ferrand, who, it will be re ... t aenibereil, made a promise to examine the reports '-` O, ? the speeches ascribed to him, and then to disclaim i r avow his charges against Sir James Graham and dr• llogg, declared that he had read the reports and. ond then faithful, and having reiterated his convic ir of the truth of his charges, walked out of the wi c) nse• The scene that followed illustrates in a re v arltable manner the extreme impropriety and incon a„enAie,nee of the meddling of Messrs. Roebuck, Hume, e r„ Ward. Mr. Ferrand had made two grave charges, vi the utter injustice of which we are as fully con ricedi as we are of Mr. Ferrand's bona fide sincerity in advA • - "lug them; but they were charges from their esetraYbinish i atur n e incapable of specific proof, for who can evidence the motive of a judge, or trace A• the lips of witnesses the influence of a Mi ter le , For this reason a cool and discreet man, star Mr. Ferrand is not, will carefully ab -84" from making such charges ; for the same rea °Ts a zealous and bold man, which Mr. Ferrand is, VI b e prompt to make them and will be eIY forgiven for making them ; and for all these rec as 'anil such charges rarely do harm to any one, n ever to men of such established high character as the H ome Secretary and the Member for Beverley. taiseems to have been the view of the matter tak e n by Sir James Graham and Mr. Hogg, who it the charges of Mr. Ferrand's speech unanswered an d unnoticed, until the officious zeal of Messrs. : oebuck, Hume, and Ward suggested the policy of puttin g them into form as a distinct impeachment, and bringing that impeachment by a certiorari pro ceas of their own into the House of Commons. Thi• s, we say, Messrs. Roebuck, flume, and .„.",ard had no right to do, and this we say, "th all respect, the Speaker ought not to have P e rmitted them to do. The House of Commons hi work enough to do, and duties of sufficiently ec tlortance to discharge, without looking after the "net of its Members out of doors, except where cond i s of the country have pronounced upon that whe ~--" , or, as in the case of Mr. O'Connell's slander, elf ,me direct attack is made upon the House ar e , 'n Bo its collective character. If Members r i te Lo be followed abroad by the censorial appa egir„rs of Parliament, in order to compel them to ra an account of their reports of other Mem -8008 of whom they may speak, Parliament will if. „ a have .enough to do. There were but few, 11;', t1 Y , of the monster meetings last summer at which co '• Daniel O'Connell did not deal out tolerably Ruse s and minute charges against Members of both l t ,i °llB ,es of Parliament, but we do not remember that i t r . Roebuck, Mr. Hume, or Mr. Ward, ever thought , re necessary to require the Member for Cork to s 3eat those charges in the House of Commons, and LLos tantiate them by proofs. True, Mr. O'Connell o r chartered slanderer, and Mr. Ferrand is a man a honour ; but surely the mistakes of a man of honour al ! entitled to as much indulgence as the deliberate A ., 4 nders of one of an opposite character ; and one an ,_Lantly indulged case opposing it, is decisive bliAlnst any rule. 'We repeat it, then, that Messrs. offing Hume, and Ward had no right to Mr. Ferrand's Leeds speech under the notice Larliament, and that the Speaker ought , 111 1 to have permitted the introduction of the dJect• When, however, the subject was intro luced, neither Mr. Ferrand, Sir J. Graham, nor Mr. gg had any choice as to how each ought to act. Ferrand ought to avow or to disavow b e 2Peech at Leeds ascribed to him in the news „ie'F'ro• Sir James Graham and Mr. Hogg ought ~show th emse l ves rea dy t o .v i n di ca t e th e ir cha fiers ; and this is pretty much what has been done. Ferrand avows the speech, and being forced ee a nswer, professes that he adheres to the opinions f ., t weyed in it. It i s , h owever , go i ng t oo f a r o treat this avowal of the speech and of its 4 111 °us as a pledge to substantiate anything by te dente. Neither at Leeds, we believe, nor cer fr; n br in the House of Commons, did dr. Ferrand h ave any such pledge. The charges, as we th. : l ° intimated, are hardly of the same kind r e ' r t admit of specific proof, and were they dif pr e nt, the House of Commons has too often ex tieeasl-Y, by implication, and by an unhappy prac aw:' Condemned itself ' as a judicial tribunal for moan to look for a just judgment from it, tp a r e especially in a matter in which strong at ty feeling must have place. It is unjust, fli ec , re f°re, to treat Mr. Ferrand as one who s e roln an accusation that he has pledged him lie ip to support. A s t o Sir James Graham and Mr. p e Fg, they have acted as might have been ex from their high spirit, integrity, and `l to r ti • g sense, and from the tranquillity they main- L i e d until Messrs. Roebuck, Hume, 'and Ward rt , st 'ew the coal." Sir James Graham lets the matter ii n g„ fs , r ld Mr. Hogg seems to 1111'4 been disposed to ti e the Right Hon. Baronet, except for an insinu- Q O ll 4 its the Times of yesterday ; this insinuation our thi s t m e nVerary has. very handsomely withdrawn this sucruing, and therefore we trust that the business a tir a $,(,). no further, and that Messrs. Roebuck, Hume, s s ard will be disappointed. FREEDOM OF LABOUR. 4 (From the Leeds Times.) • *" Why should P ar li ament di c t a t e to grown men and l o :een, or e ven tb youug men an d young women, how eti% they should work ? Have not these parties sense to refuse doing what they find injurious to at r May they not leave their work any day that theia ?"--Leeds Mercury. b0 4 4 ,.' 4 : b ° 3 ' e all, it should not be forgot that factory la hi i s Voluntary, not compulsory. No man, woman 14, 3 need stay in a factory a single day longer than he It Mercury. is contended by the opponents of a Ten Hours' k at Ltila the i n t er ference of the Legislature in a ti es of of this ki n d i s a gross v i o l a ti o n of the Tiber es of the s u bj ect; the advocates o f corn -l aw r e peal • thileecially insi s ti ng t h at t h e on l y wa y o f s hortening su e l l i i°llll of labour is to destroy the necessity of (4 n Prolong e d drudgery by removing those bur ial,: a nd restricti ons which cripple trade, rartiDA• c h e.ap and provision dear ; while the Leeds tt lei ril pressingly insist that all legislative enact is„., an interference with freedom of labour, and ohroires (a),rfliTentilas •nothing to do with shortening the inasmuch as it is voluntary on the part 14 l abourers, man woman, and child, and they they n ot stay in a factory a single day longer than y pleas." Why was not the same objection urged when the Government proposed to take the women and children out of the coal-pits? That, too, was an interference with the poor man's labour ; and its tendency and actual result was greatly to diminish the earnings of the colliery population. But, no! Writers of all political parties lauded this measure as one of great humanity and unquestioned necessity. When the revolting-features of colliery labour were brought to light by the Children's Employment Commission, and it was found that tender women and helpless children were daily employed underground to do the work of brutes, one general shudder of horror ran throughout society. The thing was too bar barous to be tolerated in a Christian country ; the practice of female and infant slavery in mines was universally condemned ; and men of all parties de manded the interference of the Legislature. They did not see in the question one merely of vested inte rests, of capital sunk, of profits suspended,—but of national humanity. of benevolence and philan thropy. The Legislature, thus invoked from all sides, stepped in and put an end to the practice at once, and let us hope, for ever. Now, the very same principle is involved in the question of factory labour. Society in this country has established the principle of interference, in the case of women and minors. It regards them as unable to protect and defend themselves ; and where it finds them over worked or oppressed, it steps in and interferes. This has already been done in the Factory Bills repeatedly passed by the Legislature. What is now sought for is, that ten hours, and not twelve, should be the standard period of labour in factories, for women and children. But this would be "an interference with the rights of labour, and a violation of the liberties of the subject !" Alas ! how slender are the rights of labour ! How worthless are the liberties of the subject ; What is the " liberty" of the English labourer ? To starve or to toil! He has no alternative. He has no liberty. He has no proprietorship in the State. He is cut off from all rights and privileges. He is taxed without his consent ; his earnings are taken from him by a class who are altogether irresponsible to him; and thus he is, to all intents and purposes, a slave. He has no alternative but to toil or famish. He yokes himself, body and soul, to the iron machine— a sleepless, indefatigable labourer, whose only food is a little oil. Not only himself, but his wife and children, must also yoke themselves to the work. They run a neck-and-neck race with want. What a mockery to speak to them of free dom! And oh, what bitterness of mockery to tell them that after Parliament has interfered to protect the dumb brutes, and also to protect the women and children of the colliers, that they are not to be re lieved because it would be an interference with their liberty ! STATE OF TRADE. (From the Manchester Guardian of yesterday,) There was no material change in our market yester. day. Perhaps, upon the whole, yarn was a little steadier in price than last week, and rather more business was done, principally on Russian account. In goods, with the exception of shirtings, and other fabrics suitable for the East Indies, which continue in good demand, there was not much business doing, and, though prices are generally firm, in some faw cases trifling reductions were submitted to by manfacturers. ROCHDALE FLANNEL MARKET, MONDAY, APRIL 22. —There has been a rather quiet market to-day, some what similar to those of the two last weeks. It has been, what is called " Little Monday," and in general fewer buyers attend. The business transacted has been upon a limited scale, and prices have undergone little or no change. The wool market still continues dull, and prices stationary. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. (YESTERDAY.) WORSHIP-STREET. John Hickey, a process-server, employed at the Palace Court, Westminster, was charged before Mr. Broughton with hawing committed a violent assault upon Miss Jane Perry, the daughter of a respectable tradesman re siding in Brunswick-street, Hackney-road, under the following aggravated circumstances:— The complainant stated that between nine and ten o'clock on the preceding night the prisoner knocked at her father's door, and on its being opened by witness he stated that he was an officer of the Palace Court, and had a writ to serve upon John Perry, whom he wished to see immediately for that purpose. She requested the prisoner to call next morning, as her father had retired to rest, at the same time intimating her belief that he was mistaken in the person, as her father's name was William and not John; but the prisoner insisted that he was right, and after using very gross and insulting language towards her, he seized her by the shoulder and forced her back to the end of the passage, where he struck her a violent blow on the face. On hearing the disturbance, her father instantly hastened down stairs in his night clothes, and, on asking the prisoner what he wanted, the latter said that he had a writ to serve upon him, and that he knew him to be a common thief and swindler. Although re peatedly urged to produce the writ, the prisoner re fused to do so, and he was ordered to leave the house, which he at length did, but, on getting outside, he re newed his violent language, and collected a large crowd, whom he addressed in a loud tone of voice, and, point ing to the house, explained that it was inhabited by a nest of swindlers. The prisoner persevered in his out.. rageous conduct until the arrival of a policeman, when he was given into custody. The father of the last witness corroborated the greater part of her evidence, and said he was w h o ll y at a loss to account for the extraordinary behaviour of the prisoner, as he did not owe a single farthing to any one, and had resided for 30 years in the neighbourhood. His daughter-in-law was lying dangerously ill at the time, and her complaint was so greatly aggravated by the prisoner's violence that he did not expect to find her alive when he returned home from the Court. In answer to the charge, the prisoner said that he had been instructed to make some inquiries preparatory to issuing a writ against a person named John Perry, whom he supposed to be the complainant, but on dis covering his error he immediately withdrew, and posi tively denied having committed any assault on the oc casion. Mr. BROUGHTON ordered him to pay a fine of 505., or to be imprisoned for two months in the House of Cor rection. not re that price. it left trates. to the Lrs af s were t these Man menu- he law ow, if I, pre rought obliged iten ce. trrole ost I that ed to le, at doubt; s Was, led oak .ed the 3d. per mann y. Ia n this. 1825,, ere tea loying k was toying 1 silks )yed in were beers.) )rotec alfields ::ry for dustry lustry, n agri- A* It in—it l's pro tection vish to best of But , 1822, oun try lea; in been ing an her in )which led the hod there planted their standard. Let them tell them that they had taken their position, and that they Would not be driven from it—that they had corn- Illenced the battle, and that they would continue it, 4 owever few they should get to support it. Let them tell them that they had put their hand to the plough, to plou g h through this old, hard, weed-grown land of P.totecti on , and that they would never take their hand 'rota it until the field was all turned up, and the seed "11 had pr o d uce d a rich and abundant harvest.— (Great cheering.) The CHAIRMAN then announced, that Lord Kin naird would take the chair at the next meeting, after which the meeting separated. THE SUN, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, APRIL 25, 1844, CLERKEN WELL. John Fuller was charged with stealing 2/. ss. 6d. from Edward Gibbins, a .patient in the Royal Free Hospital, Gray's Inn-road. The prisoner, who was suffering from a severe attack of erysipelas, was likewise a patient in the hospital. On the 23d ult., a day or two after poor Gibbins had his leg amputated, he asked the prisoner to take some money for him to the nurse ; he did so, but in the course of the same night, stole Gibbins's trowsers from beneath his pillow, and having pocketed the money, the whole of the prosecutor's earthly treasure, decamped, but was ar rested in St. Giles's a few days after.—Committed. Assaults on the police have been of late exceedingly frequent in the districts over which this Court has juris diction, and some of them of a very savage and unpro voked character. They are, for the most part, com mitted in Islington and its immediate vicinity. Mr. Combe yesterday remarked on the great increase of of. fences of this nature. He was of opinion that fifty as saults were committed on each policeman in the dis trict in the course of a year. If the system were not put down, the Worthy Magisttate observed that no de cent person could be obtained to serve in the police. Mary Anne Harris was charged with violently assault ing Charlotte Franklin. Great excitement was produced in St. Giles's on the previous evening by a report that Harris had cut Frank lin's throat, and an immense mob followed the prisoner from the George-street station-house to the Court this morning, hissing and shouting all the way. The pro secutrix was conveyed from the hospital, where she had been all night, to the Court, and she presented a truly frightful spectacle. Her head was bandaged, and her face was so livid and swollen that hardly a feature was discernible. The parties live in Church-street, and quarrelled about some trifling matter, when Harris seized an iron shovel, and struck the unfortunate woman on the head with it until she was insensible, inflicting several severe wounds. The iron shovel was exhibited, and had spots of blood on it. The prisoner was discharged because Franklin declined to prosecute. SHOCKING ACCIDENT.—On Tuesday . night, about half-past eleven, a watchman in Candleriggs, Glasgow, found the dead body of a man, dreadfully mangled, lying in a back court off the above street. It appears that the deceased lived in the fourth storey of a tenement over looking the court, and the supposition is, that he had been attempting to -get admission to the house by stepping from a stair-case window to the kitchen window, when he lost his balance, and was preci • pitated to the ground. It is known that, on previous occasions, he had effected an entrance in this way ; and there is scarcely a doubt that he was making the effort in the present instance, when he failed, and met his dreadfnl fate. The deceased was a stout heavy man, and death must have ensued instantaneously, as his head was bruised and battered in a shocking manner. The attempt to enter the house by so dangerous a path, and at such a giddy height, seems little short of madness; but perhaps an explanation is to be found in the fact that he was much addicted to liquor, and there is too much reason to fear that he was intoxicated when the accident occurred. Glasgow Argus. Our military friends have n ow go t th e i r new " military cap, " and of course we civilian lookers.on must give a diffident opinion on such matters. We hope they will not be distressed when we express our opinion that the " cap fits" them extremely well. Its appear ance is rather foreign, but so was that of the curvilinear "chako" at first, which was a Prussian importation. The "poke" is a far more sensible thing than .the up and-down affair, which gave no shade or comfort, _how ever knowing might be its look.. The leather chin -strap is bad. but then that was used latterly with the former chako; it has an especially shabby appearance, whereas the lately introduced brass curb chain, fixed on one side and hooked on to the other—looked both serviceable and elegant. Why discontinue it ? One great advan tage realised by the smallness of this head gear (besides lightness and comfort) is, that it is so much inoro becom ing to the figure ;—it adds two inches of apparent breadth toithe shoulders. We wish it might furnish a hint in this way about those monstrosities the Grenadier caps.— Hampshire Advertiser, IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 24. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. NEW MEMBER. The Marquis of BLAWDPORD took the oaths and his seat for Woodstock. _ Mr. DENNISTOUN presented petitions against the Prisons Bill, from the Magistrates and Councils of Glasgow, Rutherglen, and Renfrew; from the Glasgow Emancipation Society, against the admission of sugar produced by slave labour, and from the merchants and bankers of Glasgow, for the repeal of the Duties on Cotton Wool. MASTERS AND SERVANTS BILL. GIBSON presented a petition from Nottingham against the Master and Servants Bill. Mr. AGLIONBY presented a petition from Cocker mouth. _ _ Mr. DIVETT presented a petition from Exeter to the same effect. COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE BILLS. Mr. GREENE, as Chairman of the Committee of Se lection, begged leave to state to the House, that some in convenience had been occasioned to the persons inter ested in the Hull Docks Bill, in consequence of the agents not having received notice of the adjournment of the House and the Committee till Friday. That Com mittee had been appointed for Thursday, and as it could not sit on that day, he now moved that it should have leave to sit on Friday.—Ordered. An Hos. MEMBER presented a petition from a place in Tyrone in favour of Presbyterian marriages. The British Iron Company Bill was read a third time and passed. SUGAR DUTIES. Mr. DIVETT presented a petition from Exeter, pray ing for the admission of sugar the produce of free labour. Lord HOWICK presented a similar petition from Sutherland. Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition to the same effect from Kendal. COAL DUTIES.—COTTON DUTY. Lord HOWICK presented a petition from the Town Council of Sunderland, praying for the repeal of the export duty on coal. Lord SANDON presented a petition from the manu facturers of Heywood, in Lancashire, praying for the repeal of Ow duty upon the importation of raw cotton. THE CHARITABLE PAWN SOCIETY. The NOBLE LORD also presented a petition from the iawnbrokers of Liverpool against the Charitable Pawn societies Act. Mr. HAWES presented a similar petition, but the names of the petitioners were not heard in the gallery. Mr. TATTON EGERTON presented a petition against any alteration in the Bishoprics of Bangor and St. Asaph. Mr. DICKENSON presented a petition from a regis trar in Somersetshire, praying that Taunton might be placed in schedule C in the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill. NEW ZEALAND. Mr. AGLIONBY said, that on Friday evening last, when the estimates were before the Committee, a consi derable part of the discussion arose on the subject of New Zealand, the state of the colony, and the manage ment of the Company's affairs. He then implored the Government to grant an inquiry, and the Noble Lord at the head of the Colonial Department acknowledged that the matter was a very important one, and, as he be lieved that the Nobl e Lord would not object to the ap pointment of a Select Committee, he now begged to move that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of tho Colony of New Zealand, and the proceedings of the Company, the said Committee to re port its proceedings to the House. Mr. LABOUCEIERE thought that the consent of the Colonial Secretary was not alone necessary. The House ought also to decide whether the subject was of impor tance enough for a Select Committee, and was entitled to have some notice of the motion. Mr. AGLIONBY said the blame of not having given notice was entirely his own ; he would comply with the suggestion of the Hon. Member, and give notice of his motion for Friday next. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Sir R. PEEL moved that the House at its rising do adjourn till Friday next.—Agreed to. NOTICES OF MOTION. LORD LIEUTENANTCY OF IRELAND. Mr. HUME gave notice that he would, on this clay fortnight, bring forward the motion of which he had given notice respecting the abolition of the Lord Lieu tenantcy of Ireland. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL. Mr. BORTH WICK gave notice that, on the motion for going into Committee on the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill, he would move that the House resolve itself into the same Committee on that day:Six months.—(Laughter.) FACADE OF THE -BRITISH MUSEUM. Mr. M. MILNES gave notice that, on Friday next, be would ask the Right Hon. Gentlernan the First Lord of the Treasury, as a trustee• of- the British Museum, whether the new façade httd been definitively agreed on; for, if not, he would move for a Select Committee to reconsider the plan. INFLUENCE OF PEERS IN ELECTIONS OF MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE .gave notice that on Thursday fortnight he would move for a Select Committee to in quire what persons had been, either directly or indi rectly, nominated through the influence of Peers or other persons, to sit for boroughs as Members of the House of Commons. SLAVE TRADE. Mr. M. MILNES gave notice that he would on Mon day move for a return of the number of British cruisers which had been employed from 1831 in the suppression of the slave trade ; also for a similar return with regard to French cruisers. COLONIAL ESTIMATES. Mr. HUME said that two nights ago, in the dis cussion on the colonial estimates, it had been agreed that certain returns should be made relating to colonial in come and expenditure. Those returns would be very voluminous. He, however, had prepared a digest of retn", which would be much less voluminous, but which would answer all the purpose, and he therefore begged leave to move for them.—Agreed to. SINKING FUND. Mr. lIUME would move, if the motion were not ob jected to, for returns of the amount of the Sinking Fund; of the sums which had been voted from that fund; of the various purposes to which those amounts had been ap propriated; and of the sum to which the Sinking Fund would have amounted if those appropriations had not taken place. Sir GEORGE CLERK thought the Ron. Gentleman had better give notice. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to know when the Ec clesiaEtical Courts Bill would be brought on. It stood in the Orders for Monday next. Dr. NICHOLL intended to move on Monday that the Bill be committed pro .forn,a in order to enable the House to get through the money clauses awarding com pensation. Mr. BORTHWICK had already given a notice on the subject. If he allowed the House to go into Committee pro 0,, •ma he should lose his right, and he therefore gave notice that when the Hon. and Learned Gentleman Should move the commitment of the Bill, he should pro pose his amendment. PR: r . gg E ri- 11 : 6 1 R IR;. I F IA ER M R r A o N se D a 'S nd ik s C ai C d U — S S A. ir T , ' S rise . to address the House on a case of privilege. At the same time, I may truly state, I think, both on the part of my Hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and myself, that I am extremely unwilling to occupy any portion of the time of the House in hearing a statement on a purely persona 1 matter. If I could have regarded it merely as a personal matter I should have hesitated long before I brought it before the attention of the House; but, as I said yesterday, I feel strongly, that whatever concerns any Hon. Member of this House, is indissolubly connected with this. House itself, and, after what occurred on Monday and yesterday, lam satisfied that the deliberate opinion - and dispassionate judgment of the House is, that the matter then considered cannot be allowed to rest where it now is. The course with respect to the case of the Hon. Member for _Beverley that has been pointed out for adoption is, that certain passages of his speech, purport ing to be delivered by the Hon. Member for Knaresbo rough, and published in the Times newspaper of Wed nesday, the 10th of April last, should lee read. These passages contained, first, the charge against myself, and, secondly, the charge which applies both to the Hon. Member for Beverley and myself. I do not think it right to add more now, and I deem that I shall best discharge my duty—and I believe my Hon. Friend concurs with me in that opinion—by laying the two passages on the table for the purpose of having them read by the Clerk. The Clerk at the table then read the following pas sage :—" The meeting should remember that no man had resisted the poor-law more vigorously than Mr. Walter, and it therefore was felt necessary by Sir James Graham to get him unseated. Against that gentleman's (Mr. Walter's) return a petition had been presented, and in that petition an allega tion was made that between thirty and forty pounds had been improperly expended. His speech went on to say that the Committee to try this petition consisted of three Whigs and of three Tories, and its Chairman was Mr. Hogg, the Member for Beverley, one of the most puro boroughs in the kingdom, but whether he (Mr. Hogg) got his seat for forty pounds or not, he (M r . Ferrand) did not exactly know. This Tory Chairman, aided by Sir James Graham, unseated Mr. Walter. Mr. Hogg tried to explain away his con duct on that occasion, and all the Government side of the House, on which I sat, listened with feelings of dis gust while he 'higgled and haggled' in that explanation. There was but one man on that side of the House who vociferously cheered, and that one man was Sir James Graham." When the Clerk had done reading, The SPEAKER said—ls the Hon. Member for Knar es- borough in his place ? No answer being returned, Sir R. PEEL said—Sir, I believe I am acting in con formity with general usage in undertaking, on account of the position in which I have the honour to be placed in this House, as the head of her Majesty's Government,- respectfully to tender to the House my opinion as to the course which it will be desirable to take.—(Hear, hear.) I advised the House, in the course of yesterday evening, when this subject was under consideration, to permit an interval to elapse before they came to any decision, in order that there might be , the opportunity during Om:: interval for each Member, taking un interest in this case. to refer to the precedents which have hoen established case at all of an analogous nature. The position in which we are now placed is this—that two Members of this House,considering a t v h e e i b r e e t, li n a i r ) a r, c f t e e r r r i e s d a fl a "egcatiends t b c c h n a l r s in a s h p i u c e h ei pr l a i - thatto h pH v e e o r r u e s d soe at hf t haaivspe country,u t b h l o i u c gh t meeting,fi and t,in attributedteh reported r e txe exercise to eoanomef o t e h f m e the e M ir ember e o g w f h tst,ph as ai Members of Parliament, to place on the table of the House the passage of which they complain, in order that the House may take that course which may appear to be the best. That is the position in which we are placed. I have referred, Sir, during the interval which has elapsed eine° this subject was last under our considera tion, to the cases in recent times which appear to bear or y y th madeat l h v we are have e him, r a o k f iunsogeraered:aol. lecst d vu t (hoolh hY gti uaienahcsori Itghtsrvaedaattwcheionvrl upon this. I think the three principal cases are, the case of the complaint preferred by Lord Maid stone against Mr. O'Connell, the application made to the House by Mr. Sheil, the Right Hon. Gentleman, who is now a Member of this House, for the vindication of his character against certain charges, which were brought against him in a speech delivered by a Member of this House, Mr. Hill, at a public meeting; and the third case is a complaint made by the Hon. Member for Warrington, Mr. Blackburn, against a gentleman who had been unseated by the report of a Select Com mittee—Mr. Poulter. Those are the cases in recent times, which appear to have an immediate bear ing upon our proceedings in the present instance. Sir, I will not point out the nice distinctions which may exist between these several cases and the present. The con clusion which: I have drawn from the course pur sued on the whole of these occasions is this, that it would be right upon the present occasion to re solve that this House will take the complaint, which has now been made by two of its Members, into consi deration on Friday next.--(Hear, hear.) My respect ful advice to the House is, that we shall proceed in this case with strict adherence to all established formalities —that we shall give no party any right to complain was prepared ml epllgi h rt eeo a spnvt reportah e t. roamet hds Mem ber hvtodoei. paragraph b f eia t srir h da i e esg n fp x or k be p ar) repl,t explaining Knaresborough that, coh. mplained elbr t a ag h o n i h t correct a a a a h been made. • Still, although he made that admission, he did not conclude the speech he was then delivering ; and it is possible that had that speech been brought to a con clusion, some mitigating statements would have been made by him, which he had not an opportunity . of making. I think that strict justice would in cline me to advise that we should not take advantage of admissions made under such circumstances. —(Cheers.) I should advise that we resolve to take the matter of this complaint into consideration on Friday next ; and I would combine that resolution with another, namely, that the Hon. Member for Knaresborough should attend in his place on Friday next, for the pur pose of hearing that paragraph read to him by the Speaker, in order that he may state whether or not he admits this report to be a correct report, of what he said ; and I think also that we ought to give him an opportunity of establishing the odledaftnohat ywtigadtpacehreiihassneatrtlehtai fdnrglaihdmercetaeaatl yesterday, agn admissionspio- precipitately, pnc iarttsatultnae opportunity charges which he has made.—(Cheers.) If he admits the report, and if he states that he is in a condition to prove it, and that he is willing to prove the charges which he has preferred, my advice to the House is to give him an unreserved opportunity of doing so. I would not assume the falsity of the report, but I would advise the House to be willing to accept the proof and to appoint a Select Committee for the purpose of enabling the Hon. Member to substantiate his charges. I will discuss no other contingencies, and I trust that I have spoken as becomes my position in giving my advice to the House. I want to act most dispassionately, and my advice is to act with all due regard to established forms; and I there fore content myself by moving, that the House take this complaint into consideration on Friday next, and if the House should affirm that resolution, I will move that the Member to whom this speech was attributed do attend in his place on that day. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I rise merely to say, that I entirely concur in the course now proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman. I think I cannot do better than refrain from saying a single word more respecting it, as I think a better course could not be pursued under the circumstances.—(Cheers.) Mr. FRENCH—The impression on my mind is, that the words which have been just read to the House do not bear out the charges which have been made by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. I cannot see that the passage in the Tunes bears out the charge that the Right Hon. Baronet opposite tampered with the Hon. Member for Beverley, and as to the charge against the Right Hon. Gentleman, I can only say tht the Right Hon. Gentleman did read the document which had been got up by Mr. Mott, and which document, if the public papers speak the truth, was acknowledged to be false and Mr. Mott has since been dismissed from his office.— (Hear.) I think that as far as the Hon. Member for Beverley is concerned, he must have perceived from the cheering of the House that hischaracter stands altogether unimpeached.—(Hear, hear.) As to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, I must admit that he has the mis fortune of not being able to control his tongue.—(Loud cheers, and laughter.) But I think it i s a d angerous precedent that a Minister of the Crown, backed by a majority of the House, should be able to put down any man who ventured to bring a charge against him. On that ground I must object to the motionallear.) Sir R. PEEL said—Sir, the Hon. Gentleman has altogether mistaken the course which I meant to pursue. I have proposed a resolution to the effect, that the House shall consider the charge, and shall give the Hon. Mem ber a full opportunity of proving its troth.—(Hear.) Mr. DU.NCOMBE was not quite sure that they were going according to precedent. He thought that it was the proprietor or printer of the newspaper who should be called to the bar in this case. The Noble Lord opposite (Lord Stanley) had gone rather too far when he said that the }lon. 'Member must have known when he made the charge, that it was untrue. The course proposed by the Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Department would have been the best, to have the words of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough taken down—(Hear, hear)--without going through the intermediate process of reading a newspaper.—(Hear, hear.) He did not mean to justify in the slightest degree the speech of the Hon. Member, nor did he think there was the slightest ground for the accusation. But he must also recollect that the two. g entlemen impugned had allowed ten days t o pass over without noticing the charges, instead of calling the accuser .to account on the first day after the recess, which was what he (Mr. Duncombe) had expected when he read the speech.—(Hear, hear.) No doubt the charge was calumnious, and, as it was made in the pre s-.nce of thousands, no time should have been lost in calling for explanation in the House on the first op portunity.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Be verley had said that he had been advised by his friends to treat the charge with silent contempt.—(Hear.) In his opinion the advice so given was sound and good. But then another Hon. Member, totally unconnected with the matte r — w h ose name had' never been brought forward in relation to it —got up and said to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough (Mr. Ferrand), " Pray, Sir, did you say so and so?"—(Laughter.) Now, in answer to that question, had be (Mr. Duncombe) been the per son interrogated, he should have said, " Pray, Sir, what business is that of yours?"—(Loud laughter and cheers.) He should, however, if interrogated by certain of the Hon. Gentlemen, certainly have given them the satis faction they had a right to ask, either in that House or out. of it. B u t t h ey not choos i ng to ask it, he really h a d not been able to see w h at right any other Honourable Member had to ask it f o r them.—(L ou d c h eers .) But the ques tion having been put, they h a d now to deal with a state ment which h a d b een avowed, and they were doing so in a very round-about way. In his opinion, the -most proper course now to pursue was to re -fer the matter to a Committee of three or five. Mem bers—aye, and he would not object to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough himself nominating that Committee. If, before that Committee, he refused to substantiate his accusations, or if, in that Com mittee, he failed in substantiating his charges, then it would be for the House to exercise its undoubted au thority should nbt that Hon. Gentleman—as he hoped he would do, and as he (Mr. Duncombe) would not hesitate to do—at once withdraw the charges he might be un .able to substantiate; and express his regret for making assertions for which there was no foundation.—(Cheers.) Mr. D'ISRAELI said he had been a member of the Nottingham Committee, and could bear witness to the utter groundlessness of the charges brought against the Hon. Member for Beverley.—(Hear, hear.) No man's conduct could have been more satisfactory; True he , (Mr. D'lsraeli) differed in opinion with the Honourable Gentleman, but he never for one moment questioned the conscienciousness of his deci sions. With regard to Mr. Ferrand, he entirely dis• approved of the course he had lately been pursuing in the country. -He disagreed as to the spirit he evinced and the tone he used towards the master-manufacturers. He acknowledged them to be an order of men second in importance to none ; but in treating this subject as the House seemed now inclined to treat it, he thought they were taking a very injudicious course, and one of which they would repent. There were two courses open to the Hon. Member for Beverley. Having felt that the charge ought to be noticed, he might have asked some friend, some man of sense, temper, and firmness, to have applied to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He knew that some gentlemen thought that an appeal of this kind immediately led to Wimbledon-common and pistols ; but he believed that in 990 cases out of a thousand this was not the case. If the affair had been entrusted to an it was imp oss ibl e b ut t h e ' to the Hon. M em b er to the Honour a bl e for d s v B l Member for Knaresborough. But there was another i t demuwaurls Beverley, v t a l e i n a db t e c o h nn a o r st aact degrading e s ef r g ra , r at odri yn g course open to the Honourable Member for Be verley. He might have thrown himself upon the House, and might have asked it to give him its protection in his official character.—(" So he did.") But the Hon. Gentleman did neither ; be neither made a public nor private complaint on the subject. The mat ter was brought forward by the Hon. Gentleman who as sumed the office in that House of public prosecutor.— (Ministerial. cheers). He brought it forward without the least notice, without affording the object of it,' that golden bridge which the social' spirit and social usages usually furnished to every orie in similar cir cumstances—lie brought it forward without giving the slightest opportunity for.accommodation.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Roebuck.) The Hon. Member for Bath seemed to exult in the effect he had produced ; he totally disapproved of the conduct of the Member for Knares borough; he knew the imputation he made to be false and frivolous, but nothing would exceed the indecorous conduct of the House if it assumed the judicial character, in what was anything but a judicial spirit. The charge was suddenly made by the Hon. Member for Bath, attended with sarcasms—not very successful ones, indeed, but su,:4l as showed the disposi tico to present, though the band of the master might not be very apparent.- The Honourable Member for Beverley had not thought proper; ; either. in . his private or public capacity, to, appeal to the Honour able Member for iiearesborough. The affair was precipitated on the notice of the House, and the very body that was to decide the .question had shown a di 's what he believed to be the poeition,not in accordance to. Judicial spirit. Time Bight ad to-night Dal-04ot, h . endeavoured to retore some—degree ---of order to their proceedings, and to invest the course they were taking with some degree of dignity and decorum. But the question was, after wasting two nights on this subject, whether, after the extract had been read at the table, they should not go a step further, and let the matter fall altogether to the ground. They were now entering on the question of what limits ought to be drawn in public discussion. In case of any charge made in that House, was the House to convert itself into a court of honour to decide upon it ? There was sufficient power to keep a speaker in order in that individual responsibility which attached to every man. He had heard graver charges than any which were made by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He bad heard last session the leader of the House of Commons charge an Hon. Gentleman opposite with making speeches which would lead to assassination. —(Hear, hear.) How was the Right Honourable Gentleman treated ? Was he howled at and hooted down ? No ; Hon. Gentleman opposite sunk before the accusation in a manner which told little for their spirit.—(Laughter, and " Hear, hear.") But, in this instance, because the individual was obnoxious to them, he was treated in a different manner. He did not agree with the Hon. Member for Knaresborcugh. He entirely disapproved of the course he had taken. He objected to the spirit which animated his remarks. But because that Hon. Member was obnoxious, and because he was not backed the moment he made this charge he was baited. —(Hear, hear.) Gentleman after gentleman got up and asked him, " Why did you say this ?" If the Hon. Member had the common courtesy of society exercised towards him, he would have had an opportunity of extricating himself from the painful position in which he was placed.—(Hear, hear.) It had been said that the Hon. Gentleman had flown from the tribunal. He (Mr. D'lsraeli) was not at all surprised that he did not wish that tribupal to decide the question. He had no communication with him on the subject, except for one moment when he was passing out of the House, on which occasion he told him that he had a bad case and a worse tribunal.—(Laughter.) That was his (Mr. D'lsraeli's) opinion. He believed the Honourable Member for Knaresborough had not de ferred to the tribunal, but had demurred to it. He considered it was unnecessary for him to enter into any explanations with the House, but that individuals who thought themselves offended would take their own course. He did not consider that this quarrel should be made the quarrel of the House of Commons, or that the House should convert itself into a court of hoaour.—(Hear, hear.) The practical question for them to consider was—whether the House ought to establish so dangerous a precedent. The ques tion between the Hon. Member and the Right Hon. Gen tleman was very different from that between him and the Hon. Member for Beverley.—(Hear.) He had beard the Hon Member for Knaresborough, on several occasions, enter into the Mott question and the Keightly Union, and he had heard the Right Hon Gentleman the Secre tary of State for the Home Department. and the Right Honourable Gentleman at the head of the Government, answer him, and enter upon all the details. He never could depict to himself any clear idea with regard to that involved and implicated transaction. All he could understand was, that there had been a sub commission who had made a report which had been brought forward. That the transaction was-involved in obscure and suspicious circumstances, no one could deny, but it was absurd to suppose that theßight:Hon. Gentle man should make such a perverted use of his power for so slight an object.—(Cheers and laughter.) But it should be remembered that this was the case of a Member of Parliament of warm feelings, who was not supported by any great party, who imagined that an attempt had been made by a Minister of the Crown to put him down, and • that he had resisted that attempt. They should make some allowance for the exaggerations which excited feelings and pardonable vanity—(Cheers and laughter) —would naturally induce a Member under those circum• stances to make use of while addressing the masses of the operative community with which he deeply sympathised. What could be more natural than that he should say, " I did this ; I said this? An attempt was made to put me down by a Minister of the Crown, who drew from a green box an unpublished report, but it would not do, I was not to be crushed." Are we, Sir (continued the Hon. Gentleman), come to such a pass that a Member of Parliament was not to be allowed to say this ?—(lronical cheers, and laughter.) Was it for a great statesman like the Right- Hon. Gentleman, to come forward with a demure countenance and say, " the State is in danger, there's something rotten in the state of Denmark ? The House of Commons must interfere to vindicate the reputation of this strong (even if not popular) Ministry." —(Loud cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Gen tleman did not appear at first disposed to move in the subject, and if it had not been for the attack on the Hon. Member for Beverley, he thought they would never have heard of the great Mott case.—(Cheers and laughter.) He declared solemnly that he had never read the speech of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, he had never heard it read until he had heard it read with unusual powers of elocution by the Learned Clerk at the table.--(Laughter.) .He had paid great attention to it, and he confessed that he had been astonished at the weakness of the assault. He really thought that on that occasion, when addressing the masses and the mil lions, the Hon. Member for Knaresborough had lost a great deal of that impassioned fervour which usually characterised his addresses.—(Cheers and laughter.) It appeared to him that he did not attack the Hon. Mem ber for Beverley, absent, with half the furor which he ex hibited in attacking the Hon. Member for Stockport, present.—(Hear.) He really thought that they might with as much reason have had the speeches which he made almost every night, read at the table, and then have had the Secretary of State solemnly moving a resolution on the subject. New, he thought this subject had been treated by one great master in the right spirit, He thought that when the Right Hon. Gentleman, with that historical research which he al ways displayed, called their attention to the case of the bottle conjuror, he hit the right nail on the head.— (Laughter.) He was surprised after the admirable example which the Right Hon. Gentleman had set to find him followed as he had been by the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire. There was always something very chivalric about the Noble Lord ; but when they wished to exhibit a perfect model for the Hon. Member for Knaresborough—when they wished to teach him what should be the spirit of Parliamentary discussion, and how an Honourable Member of that House should hesitate before he made a statement that could not be proved, he was rather surprised to find the Noble Lord, the Member for North Lancashire, get up, and, in his zeal for his Right Hon. Friend, denounce the statements made by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough as false and calumnious, and announce that the Hon. Member for Knaresborough was conscious that they were false and calumnious when he made therii. That was an example which the Hon. Member for Knaresborough would probably study as a model ; and when he returned - to that House and re sumed his place, they-would probably find his speeches distinguished by that amenity of manner, and choice selection of conciliatory expressions, which always dia racterised the speeches of the Noble Lord.—(Laugh ter.) So it always was with the speeches of the Noble Lord. the Member for North Lancashire. He destroyed Mr. Ferrand first, and destroyed his own po sition afterwards. He was the Prince Rupert of Parlia mentary discussion. His charge was resistless, but when he returned, his camp was- always in - the possession of the enemy.—(Laughter.) 'Then, as if all the great guns were not sufficient to sink this unfortunate craft, the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department, keeping up the solemn spirit of the farce, rose and said " This is the British House of Commons, and not the hustings." A gentleman might tell hes upon the hustings, but he was not to tell lies in th e H ouse . This was the political morality of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department.—(Hear.) Now he entirely differed from the Right Hon. Gentle man. He did not think they ought to tell lies on the hustings.—(Hear, hear.) He thought a gentleman ought to be as measured in what he said on the hustings as in what he said in the House of. Commons.—(Hear, hear.) And he would even go further than that, and would say that a gentle man ought not to make pledges on the hustings which he did not mean to redeem in that House. He did not think that gentlemen on the hustings ought to denounce the New Poor-law, and come into the House of Commons and vote for it.—(Laughter and cheers.) He called that corrupt and unprincipled conduct— (Cheers)—and if any Honourable Gentleman in that House felt that he was guilty of this conduct, let him propose a vote of censure upon him (Mr. D'lsraeli) for uttering such a sentiment.—(Great laughter.) On Friday next, the Hon. 'Member for Knaresborough was to - come into that House, if he accepted the lenient alternative, of the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government, and they were . to recommence the proceedings of which they had had two rehearsals.—(Laughter.) Whether the piece would succeed after the initiatory proceedings he could not take upon himself to decide, but he did know that any attempt in that House, whether it was right or whether it was wrong, to hunt down an individual had never succeeded, but had always terminated to the disadvantage of the persons attempting it. He remembered what another Sir Robert, who was not a greater man than the present Sir Robert, said with respect to a similar subject. That Sir • Robert said, " I am quite tired of roasting a parson." After his experience with Mr. Stockdale, and after his contest with the sheriffs, when, as on the present occasion, he was supported by the Noble Lord the Member for London, who had rather withdrawn of late his support from the Government, he (Mr. D'lsraeli) thought the Right Hon. Baronet was taking a good humoured view of this case—a bottle-conjurer view of it—and ssaid—" Why, really, after what has occurred, we ought to allow the matter to drop, feeling quite aware that Mr. Ferrand has already re ceived a great moral lesson, and that when he appears on the hustings in future, I doubt not that he will re- . member the advice of the Right H on. Baronet the Se cretary of State, and always be as cautious as he is in the House of Commons."—(Cheers and laughter.) Captain BERKLEY could not agree with the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down in recommending that the two Hon. Gentlemen who were most interested should-make this a personal ,quarrel. Such a doctrine was most extraordinary, to say the least of it. He Capt. Berkeley) hoped that he would be the last in that House to offer one word of offence to any Hon. Gentleman ; but if he ever should do sn, he 'would be ready to apologise for it the next moment. He never would " 'attempt to make a personal quarrel out of any , thing . which had taken place in his public character. Perhaps, in, the first instance, silent con t empt wou ld have been the best cure ; but wimp, after twenty-four • hours' deliberation, the Hon. Member for Kintresborough came down yesterday and pledged 'himself to the truth - of his charge, declaring that he - would not retract a Single woid.—(Heari hear)-under. these circumstances he did . not • ink that it would he for the dignity of the House that the matter should_ be _allowed to drop.— (Cheers.) It must be in the recollection of every gen tleman in the House that the Hon. Member for Knares borough had been cheered on in the most vociferous manner by a set of gentlemen who, whenever the Honourable , . Gentleman indulged in any coarse language levelled against the Members of the League, or the Opposition of that House, encouraged him by their " sweet voices."—(Cheers and laughter.) These were, in a great measure, the party answerable for the scrape in which he had -now got. It was very aptly remarked by a'gentleman on that (the Opposition) side of the HouSe, that the Hon. Member for Knaresborough had been kept like a dog chained up to check the manufac turers, and that, having broken his chain, he turned round and worried his master.—(Cheers and laughter.) Lord JOHN MANNERS said it bad been his inten tion when he came into the House, if any vote of cen sure should have been proposed, to move the previous question, and he now thought that it would be the best course for him to make that motion as an amendment upon the present question.—(Hear, hear.) First, on general grounds, because he was not prepared to agree in the proposition of the Right Hun. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department, that the House was bound in every case to interfere in quarrels between in dividual Members, and to decide which was right, and which was wrong. There seemed then, to be two courses of procedure—the one which was recognised by the law of the land—there was an appeal to the courts of justice, to which even at the present moment the Hon. Member for Knaresborough was amenable—the second was that course of procedure which had been indicated by the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury.—(Great laughter.) He wished to refer to the particular question as it affected the Hon. Member for Beverley (Mr. Hogg). Nothing, he could assure the House, was further from his intention than to question the honour and integrity of either the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hogg) or of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department. Having acquitted himself of any such intention, he must beg the House to reflect upon what was the direct charge said to have been brought with respect to the Hqn. Member for Beverley (Mr. Hogg). As that charge had been stated by him (Mr. Hogg), it was to the effect that that Hon. Gentleman had been in fluenced in his duty by the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham), in order to do an injustice to another Hon. Member. Now he (Mr. Hog g ), in reading the passage of which he complained, said that, in a court of justice, such passage would be judged as to its obvious meaning, and as to the ordinary acceptation of the words used. He (Lord J. Manners)_protested most strongly against such a line of argument. The House ought to take that charge in its literal acceptation, and not to put one and une together in order to cumulate an offence. Such a course he considered to be essentially unfair. They could only take the speech in its literal sense, and, that they might judge it in its literal sense, he would take leave again to read it to the House. (The Noble Lord here read the speech in. question.) Now, was there in these words any imputation of dishonourable motives on the Member for Beverley ?—(oh, oh.) Gentlemen behind him cried " Oh, oh," and such might be their opinion. But, from the tone of all the altercation, he believed that the Right Hon. Baronet was very glad that Mr. Walter was unseated—that Mr. Walter was turned out of Parliament. Mr. Hogg was the Chairman of the Committee by which Mr. Walter was unseated. Still, he believed that the charges against the Member for Beverley were unfounded. As to the other part of the question, as the Right Hon. Baronet had himself said that he should wish the matter to rest where it was, he thought the House would be justified in letting it drop. As he denied the right of the Hon. Member for Bath to get the House to prosecute others just when he might please to interfere, he should therefore move the previous question - as an amendment on the motion before the House. Mr. SMYTHE seconded the amendment. In doing so, he disclaimed any concurrence in the opinions ex pressed by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He believed that the course he had taken on the Factory ques tion was pernicious and illusive ; nor did he believe that the Noble Member for Dorsetshire wished to use any in direct means of crushing any political opponent whatever. He could afford to say that the straightforward conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet en the factory agitation question had been not among the least of the signal proofs of the great administrative ability of that Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) That hallucination of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough with regard to the Right Hon. Gentlemen the Secretary of State for the Home Department could only be paralleled by his hal lucination with regard to the Commissioners. He be lieved that the Hon. Gentleman was in earnest. With respect to what fell from the Prime Minister re garding the . appointment of a Committee before which Mr. Ferrand was 'to be called, he did not think that Committee desirable, because the difference was not about a question of fact, but a question of motives. The Hon. Member for Knaresborough had no more facts to adduce than what he had adduced. In the case of the Hon. Member for Beverley, he believed that, so far from having been influenced by any vicious or un worthy motive, that Hon. Member was influenced by an outrageous sense of public virtue.—(Great laughter.) The House had affirmed the decision of the Committee, and so declared that the Hon. Member, who paid 401. for a vote, could not have a seat in the British Legis lature. The Hon. Member for Beverley had certainly shown more than Roman virtue,. and the House had shown more than Roman effrontery ; because, unlike the Roman augurs, they could look one another in the face without laughiug.—(A laugh.) Hon. Members would find it difficult to give proofs of their belief to that House, though they might believe, very firmly. What Hon. Member could take it upon himself to bring for ward proofs of the correctness of his belief ?—( A laugh)—even the most general sort of belief ? Could the Hon. Member for Tamworth give proofs of his be lief ?—(Great laughter.) The Hon. Membar for Fins bury believed in the six points of the Charter. Could he adduce proofs of his belief ? Mr. DUNCOMBE—Yes, certainly.—(Laughter.) Mr. SMYTHE would be very curious to hear such an exposition. The whole of this mischief had origi nated with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Mem ber for Bath, and the whole of that Hon. Member's conduct certainly seemed something like an understand ing. between purity and power. If he were called upon to justify that belief he could only say that he had been induced to form it by an attentive observation of the political career of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. — (Cheers.) He was not to be deceived by his mock sympathy with a spurious patriotism.—(Cheers.) He was assailing all, yet sparing one.—(Loud cheers.) He was assaulting all, yet fawning upon one. He was constantly saying, if I were not the Diogenes of Bath, I would be the Alexander of Tamworth.—(Loud cheers.) The Hon. Member for . Bath had taken the Hon. Member for Knaresborough by surprise ; he had taken the House by surprise; he had taken the country by surprise; for he doubted not but that the country would feel surprised when they saw the House postpon ing the consideration of the poor-law to enter, at his in stigation, upon these paltry personalities.--(Cheers.) The country would be the more surprised at this, be cause they saw the Hon. and Learned Gentleman uniting in his own person the most perfect antithesis, being at the same the rebels' agent and the Queen's counsel— the champion of Papineau and the champion of the Secretary of State.—(Cheers.) Sir R. INGLIS wished that the advice of his Right Hon. Friend, with regard to this debate, had been taken in the first instance, and that he should not have had such an authority as his Noble Friend behind him asserting that there were but two courses which, under the circumstances, could be pursued, either to refer to a court of law, or to have recourse to the other remedy, which had been not obscurely hinted at by another Hon. Member. It appeared from these statements that it was necessary either to have recourse to the law or to violate the law. He (Sir R. Inglis), however, thought there was another course open. That course was the course taken by the House on the three former occasions to which his Right Hon. Friend. had referred, establishing the precedents upon which he asked the House then to act. He could hardly think that he had misunderstood his Noble Friend, considering the interest with which he always listened to what fell from him ; but, considering the principles to which he adverted, he thought he was called upon to' approve the conclusion to which he ap peared to have come. Mr. Hume and Mr. Roebuck rose together to address the House. There being repeated calls for the latter, Mr. Hume withdrew. Mr. ROEBUCK said he feared that he should disap point the House; he was going to speak to the question. —(Laughter.) It struck him that the position of the question was a very simple one, and if the House would permit him he would state what he conceived it to he in three words. A Member of that House had charged a Minister of the Crown with improperly using the powers of his office, for the purpose of getting a report made to that House which was false, to the end that he might crush a Member of that House. o That charge was made in the hearing went the House by a Member of the House. He furtheren on to say that 'the same Minister of the Crown had em ployed his influence with a Member of thatifo e u r sTto forget the oath which he had given to ag fe i s of " 1•19, no.")tice and co i t t o th return t of fn theseun tr chargesae verdi . c a t . — m ( o e fic i m was made une f mgs o a r btgieoi ß rvne a f ih rh . " iTmh Na That o wH noticeohn.e; i w n o that u,d remindH o se , thaendnoteafeobreowhethenocthicaergde t c h a e me m b o e t f i o on re , i h . t e . " The whole of the mischief," said an Hon. Member, " is hadattri thoughtbuta tfiottthoe ask Hon. e i e s r Mn n t certain un n h .b a a e c A v r c i i Knaresbo roughmembeifr but he at once affirmed that he had made the charge, h co e m h p a l d ai m ne a d de of a and he also repeated it. Were he to charge the Hon. Member opposite with robbery, surely he would not say that he ought to have given notice of the charge. The Hon. Member for Knaresborough complained of the were these. want of notice, but he admitt e d that he had made the achfaorrnigee,ranodechaesiroenp.eaTtehdethe wordsw o words which he had Theus e d H o o nourable Member admitted that he used the words attri buted to him in the newspapers. —( Hear, could he (Mr. R oe b uc k ) be called e hear.) on to, make ha.)defHow for the part, h e h a d taken ? Thesewereeh e arges which e were worth repeating, but before he should thinkts them worth while to refute the ydable must come in a more formi manner than those made against him (Mr. Roebuck) by the other side.—(Cheers,) 'I he Noble Lord did not seem, to understand the extent of his own proposition of " the preview question." - The effect was that the House gave no opinion upon the subject.—(Cheers.) But when a Member of that House charged a Minister of the' Crown with }diving used his power to crush a Mem ber of that House, had they come - to this pass that the House would expr:_ , sS no opinion of the charge ?—(Hear.) It had been said that they were bullying and running down the Member for K - n.aresborough. Why all the bully ing and- running down was on the other side.--(Hear.) He hairtliought it"was his duty, after he read the accu sation, to take the first, opportunity, when he saw the Member for Knaresborough,. in his place, to call on him to prove the truth of his chirge--(Hear)—and he thought that no' honest man Would -make such charges without.bein. able, to ; prove them.—(Hear.) The House S U N -NN; " -: ''''. - - ‘..-.;-----.. - 7.: r ...'s gave him an opportunity of substantiating s'clfarises-sscAsej , he again admitted - tire clmrges, and then 1140(sitesiVii:s l s ) .?. 2 l ed accusation. The House, however, in its se eVjuiti&li-,`" _t" s:? ,ss. , said—" No, we will. determine nothin ssib,*:bl l l 3 / 4 - 1 - - -' --- - --- -'1 the Honourable G en tl eman s h a ll have `lL:fiktki.sk.i.s.-s--'"-'ss_!.., oppportunity of explaining himself."—(Hemslum) rQ t t , :i \T He should wish to know, what the Hon. Mernbei-f a L ' i ` ''' Shrewsbury, and the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Manners) meant by gentlemanly arrangement ? Why, he thought no other interpretation could be put upon his words, than that the charges should be substantiated by the pistol. What, else could be understood, when he said the Hon. Member for Beverley should apply to a friend, who would at once get him out of any difficulty. He (Mr. Roebuck) thought that after what had oc curred in this House within the last two months, Such a suggestion was most disgraceful to those who made it. It had been said that this question was too in significant to take up the time of the House. Let them see how the matter stood. One Hon. Member rose in his place and accused another before the House and the country of acting corruptly. Again, he made a charge against a Minister of the Crown of exercising the in fluence of his office for a similar end, and therefore he thOught this was a matter, which called for the special interference of the House.—(Cheers.) Mr. SMYTHE said the Hon. Member who had just sat down had made assertions which could not be sub stantiated.—(Here the cries of " Order" and " Chair" became so loud as to render the Hon. Member inaudible, although by his gesticulation we could see that he was speaking with considerable warmth.) Lord HOWICK said he should strongly deprecate the mode of settling this question which was suggested by the Noble Lord' opposite. ¶le thought the House was acting most unwisely in carrying this matter any fur ther ; and his reason for coming to this conclusion was, because he knew that the House felt the charge to be utterly groundless and deserving of contempt, and there fore he hoped it would take no further notice of it. If they took any other course, they were bound to con sider the consequences that might arise hers after. Al though no one, for a moment, could imagine the slightest foundation for the present accusation, yet it was possible that at a future period some Minis ter of the Crown might exercise his powers in such a manner as to call for the intervention of the House, and by passing the vete now proposed, it would be establish ing a precedent which would deter any Member of that House from bringing the matter forward. The man, he thought, who made an accusation which he could not substantiate, laid himself open to that degree. of con-. tempt and ignominy from that House and the country which would be quite sufficient punishment for him if he possessed the feelings of a man or a gentleman. If the public were satisfied upon this matter without any resolution, he could see no good that was likely to arise from passing it. He could not see that great difference between a false accusation made against an individual Member of that House and a Minister of the Crown. The House would remember that the Hon. Member for Knaresborough had made as attack upon the Hon. Member for Stockport a short time since, when he accused him of acting contrary to law, and compelling his labourers to adopt the truck system. In that case nothing was done, yet the House was perfectly convinced of the falsehood of the charge. They had already occupied too much of their time with this subject.—(H ear and laughter.) He again repeated that while there were legislative measures of great import to the country pending it was ridiculous in them to waste their time in investigating this trumpery charge. He felt the present charge was utterly false. But nevertheless he did not wish to establish a precedent which would have the effect of preventing the Members of that House from criticising the acts of Ministers of the Crown when their conduct was such as to call for criticism. He should conclude by expressing his hope that the House would decline any further interference in the matter. Mr. HUME said he was never more surprised than at what had fallen from the Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland. He argued as if the Hon. Member for Knaresborough were the only person concerned in this matter. Mr. Ferrand had made a gross charge against a Member of this House, and that Hon. Member sought , the protection of the House. The Noble Lord had used the word " contempt." Now, against no man in that House had so many charges been made as against him (Mr. Hume), and he invariably treated them with contempt on account of their contemptible nature ; but this was not a case to be treated with contempt. An accusation had been brought against an Hon. Member, that he was guilty of aiding in getting rid of Mr. Walter from the House, because he was troublesome to Minis ters on account of his motions concerning the poor-law. This assertion had been made, and was believed by a great number of p ersons , an d therefore, there was a direct and tangible charge against the Hon. Member for Beverley and the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department. Under this conviction, he thought the case deserving of the special notice of the House. Sir J. GRAHAM certainly was of opinion that when such a change as this was was brought fcrward by any Hon. Member, it was the duty of the House to interfere. The. Hon. Member for Knaresborough had made a deliberate charge against certain Members of the House, and, after an interval of twenty-four hours, when he ought to have had time for due and mature consideration,he reiterated it; and that charge was a most serious one, so far as a Minister of the Crown was concerned, namely, that he had used his influence in that capacity for cor rupt purposes. With respect to the charge which had been made against his Hon. Friend the Member for Beverley, he thought that nothing could be m•re utterly groundless or false. Lard JOHN RUSSELL thought it would be much better if the further discussion of this matter was dropped for the present. With respect to the observations of the Noble Lord opposite, he thought it would be as well if they, or any future ones which he might have to make, should be deferred until the time appointed for the fur ther discussion of this subject, namely, next Friday. Mr. HOGG concurred in what had been just ex pressed. He thought it would be much , better not to press for any discussion until Friday. Lord J. MANNERS said, that after what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary for the Home Department, and also from the Noble - Lord, he felt it his duty to withdraw his motion. He would just take that opportunity of stating that, in what he had said that evening, he had not intended in the, remotest degree to advocate the practice of duelling, as the Hon. Member for Bath had charged him with. The amendment was then withdrawn, and the original motion, after a few words from Lord INGESTRE, was agreed to. COUNTY CORONERS BILL. The House then went into Committee on this Bill. Clauses 1 to 6 were agreed to. Mr. HUME then objected to the Bill proceeding be fore such a thin House, and moved that the Chairman report progress. After a short conversation, the motion was agreed to, the Chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Wednesday next. Mr. F. FRENCH was then proceeding to submit a motion respecting the'Dublin Jury Lists, when An HoN. MEmnEa moved that the House be counted, and there being but 23 Members present, the House ad journed at a Quarter to Eight. LLOYD'S SHIPPING. THE CURRENTS OF THE OCEAN. The following, enclosed in a bottle, was picked up in the port of Isabella, on the north coast of. Porto Rico, on the 18th March last, and has been forwarded to Lloyd's: " MAY 15, 1838, EIGHT P.M.—Her Majesty's ship Andromache, at sea in lat. 47 deg. 10 min. N., lon. 34 deg. 50 min. W., out six days from Plymouth—left Scilly at nine A.M. of the 10th inst. " During the last two days have experienced a strong southerly current of one knot per hour. This bottle is thrown overboard to ascertain the set of the current, and it is requested that. he person into whose hands it "Y fall will cause the circumstance, with particulars, to be pnblished for the benefit of navigation." (Signed by the Captain, Master, and several Offi cers, both belonging to the vessel and passengers to Quebec.) VESSELS SPOKEN WlTlL—ThejaltleS, f ro m London, 17th inst., lat. 50, lon. 11; Ava Portsmou th to Quebec, 18th, lat. 51, lon. 10; Carisbrook, Belfast to Quebec, same day, lat. 51, lon. 8 , by the William Thompson, arrived at Bristol. B omb ay, A u gusta, Bristol to sth ult., lat. 22 S., lon. 29 W., b the Golconda, England, arrived at Swansea. Wilhelmine, Regenburg, from e the in C hina; 5 Nor d, t nl arrived t ,ht. t in u the n o Downs.s )-r e s o W oCto by Ch 2, lon. 24 W. ; W oodman, Cl y de to Toba g o, 21st ult., B Ayres, fat. r B a , , lon. 67 7 p lat. 22 N., lon. 24 W., b y th e K , 1* an-mna, Rogers, arrived in the Downs. Ulverstone, Feb. 12, off the Cape of Magpie, Liverpool, to the Good Hope, by the Ilumayeon, arrived in the Downs. 3d ult., lat. 5 S., lon. 18 W. Celt, Contest, of Jersey, Rio, for Cowes, April 1, lat. 32, lon. ff Cork. N , lon. 21 W. • Adven 'he l o 6th inst., 47,10 n. 16 ; ' Marianne 'elßeY7oltimore American ship, 20th, lat. 49, schooner aohr , pet on b :o y fnLor efo t i ri h n Ge e raoj ß pnooed o dro : lH , lon. 8, by the Ystroom, arrived off Falmouth. James Vir, of Garlie's-town, for Rio Jaeiro, 11th ult., by:the Jacob Kersting, arrived off Dartmouth. Cornelia brig, of and ,fro m Gl asgow, wit h loss of howsprit, and had bore up for th a t port on the 17th inst., lat. 48, ion. 15, by the Palos, arrived off Falmouth. Victory barque, for New Orleans, in the p 2lstuoltw.,nls. _, at. 23N., lon. 34 W., by the Emily, arrived [ADVERTISEMENT.] Pon-OFFICE ARRANGE. )LENTS.-.—WOTSdell'S Vegetable Restorative Pills, pre pared only -by John Kaye, Esq., of Dalton Hall, near Huddersfield, hive now, arising solely from their in trinsic merits, attained the highest celebrity, and be come the most extensively established Family Medicine of the present day: but as many - parties, anxious to ob tain this medicine, find great difficulty in doing so, owing to many country towns yet being without an Agent, from whom it can be procured; to obviate this difficulty, the proprietor has now made arrangements by ,vhich persons, residing in any part of the United Kingdom, may be supplied with a single box, post free, - direct froin the Wholesale Depot, in London, by forwarding fourteen penny postage stamps ; or, for the larger box , 2s. 9d. in stamps, addressed—Kaye's Wholesale Depot, 44, Cole man-street, near the Bank, London. str i e o nl 3 ). 3 o a f t HOLLOWAY'S Pli.l.s.—The virtue of this most ex. ittrawoorndidnearif•yamyepdii.ecisnerevisesso manadm in irahbelaelanthdefficacu strength t t and body, and of all the powers and faculties of his - mind. It is a sovereign remedy for all diseases, - however bad, that adrnit•of a cure. All pergons suffering.from gene=l debility, nervous affections, liver or bilious complaints, sick head-aches, indigestion, want of appetite, as well as every complaint brought onby sedentery habitS, for all such these Pills will be Sound - to give almost immediate relief. Sold (also Holloway's Ointment), at Trofessor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand (where advice may be had gratis) ; and by almost all respectable ven dors of medicine throughout the civilised world;in boxes and pots at Is. lid., 24. 9d., 4s. 6d., 11s., 225„ and 383. each. . ..~: i