The Sun. — London, England, 1821-04-19 00:00:00

. . _ .. . - • . ttid. two oili.r '• ' 0 ;:- •• - r-• -. • - , principal '0 o f tne.kown, Cld he had thre , s' It'll ich he knew of was that of Lord Chatham, by St ti l i ss m ss ls,ss.s. :a .: , rit i itt ed . , bv'_ . ,.. thein . of'"the .. eliol g e.i . bro - ught against addinss to the County. • tattoo and t . • s , , , •: .. st tie n- e ed the Committee, notknowing the c:rcumstaiices . Rtpresen •. , , sans - t o_ch a , ,, eas e , would nots*Ftu n ie any thingntifavouralile'to the feriing the franchise from decayed' boroughs to , 5.1 ,. ., 'sr of,e , t indiiitittal from the' ex-name - statement the Y large and populeus towns. It was no objection is a nea 7 l. As to what -the- Lord President' had gaid upon the ; ° c'ca 9 'o , l,'all thr..the did was- ill writin ~- and therefOre .o id b Imr, .. . (., ui e to urge against going into a Committee,- that the reserreds 3 for f: correctnes s said, th a t C apta i n Brow n had been ac- .' . '' - • Re o t formers - were not agreed among themselv e s t.ls, BENNETTI• • Len. plans. If they did e x a ctly t a lly w ith finit . .tedby•the:Lord Pr es id ent uynn his own .c o nf e s s i on o f 'his as t 1.,h ,gout,d in defiance of the opi n i o n o f ' t h e w h o l e of the police each othe r , it. would be said that they h a d a ll "nasSibeitow n . In Short., It was part of the old regurtr Scotch- come from the' . same Officina. It was' well.ols -/'iSsilr‘sfvuss.—,sup_norting an abuse whenever it mine to light. served- OR the . preceding night, that the diffe ,„, , 0 ovirse Grants were then voted:— - '-"•, r l a ' , ., ~,G , owsPensions on the Irish Establishment • - £20,795 rences of opinion among the Religious Reformers, 4 defray the charge of the Half-pay of the Officers of did not prevent the establishment of the Refor 'l),e Local Mllitia ' l9 800 .matron, yet their differences were. more nume- To; defray the charges of Corps to be disbanded inflino. - ' . . , 1 -,alld, m 1821 • 1-.3,12 / toils and more .important than those of the poll '" defray the charges of Corps to be dish nd d in Ire ' a e., .-.. , tical Reformers of the present day. They differed land., in 1841' = ' • - 2i,193 Vote ofboth doctrine and discipline, and yet were Credit on account of the Ordnance Service for .. : u pon 1821 —' • - . - 150,000 now etijoyiog the blessings of the glorious tri, The Ilauselhen resumed, and the Chairman reported pro- urniili of their cause.—(Hear, hear !)--.-Ile would gress,' and 'the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. , 0 „4 was then or d ere d, on the motion of the CHANCELLOR not dwell longer on this • subj ec t. Th e quest i on !_e EXCREQUER, 'that the House s ho u ld a g a i n r e so l ve 'h a d b een so a b ly discussed already that he could "sit into the Committee on' Monday sennight. . do no more than repeat the arguments which • . PARLIAMENTARY . REFORM. • On th e mot i on of Mr. L AMBTON,. the Order of others had used. H e h a d ear l y enterta i ne d t h e ... th, of th e n ecess it y o f R e f or m , an d he e Day was read f or resum i ng t he d e b ate on t h e conviction Stat e of the Representation of the 'Peopl e . was proud• to pr o f e ss th e p r i n Ci p l es o f t h e sc h oo l . 1.1 In. Wisv.mi, expressed jiis. earnest. hope that of such illustrious politicians as Fox, Saville,.and Chatham. It must besavident to every one who R i e nousei would accede to the motion of the reflected on passingsevents, that Reform was in tli°ll. Member. In the present distressed state of its progress, and it could not now be stopped. three "untry, when the amount of . the taxes was He would therefore rather deal with it now in form times as great as it was 30 years ago,•Re a friendly manner - while that might- be done, ps °l was loudly called for by the' Voice of the than when it should have assumed a-character of nor and : that voice it would be neither wise violence. Now was the time to redress the er r e c.Pedient to disregard. He concluded by s tors of the Constitution—now it was safe and U PPortincr the motioo. s s, . .. Air, S er j eant O NSLOW thought the measure of practicable to rem ove th e v i ces in its practice, tk • • t sR lio n , G entleman opposite was highly objec- an d repa i r t h e d amages which •it had sustained; ionabl e i n its principle, - since it went to disfran- a time might com e w he n we s h ou ld regret t h at • c hi§e asgreat -number of individuals, who were not such an opportunity w a s a ll owe d t o pass away. -- -e jeff accused of an y crime.. Much had' been said (Hear!) 'la the eaorse s of this debate of a Paper; which was Mr. BENNET (of Wiltshire) saids he-would not circulated iii the year 1792, i„ w hi c h it was- go at any length into the question then. •It was Stated, that a certain number of Peers and .Coms sufficient for him to know that corruption did • • Metiers nominated a majority, of the Members of exist In the representation ; and, as far• as be ‘t } .lat House ; that paper was, howevers a mere 'knew, that HOuse ought to be the. real represen s'ssue olmistakeS. The names of Peers had been tative. of the Commons - of England.---(Hear, hear !)—The influence of individuals,and of the . 1)11 1 , t down in that list as returning Members to Peers was too great in that town to allow' it to • ll'at House, merely because they exercised the - be a pure representation.. They *Were, therefore • ~e . gififnate influence 'of their. high lineage . - and bound to vote for a Committee, - its:Which the i .`"'•stulguished characters. - It was absurd to say, state of the representation would be .considered: • • -I_9r instauce, that the Duke of Devonshire re !urned the Member for Derby, because:a Mem-. As - to the plan proposed, many objections might °e l . of the be taken against it— a s t o th e po i n t of s h ortens Illustrious House of, Cav en di s h was tingthe duration o f Parliament, he• was riot pre t Represent a ti ve o f th at C ou nt y . li e pared to decide upon that, an d say what should :ectedhe listed, that great property, hi g h c h a r a Ct er , an d a°44bl e manners would always maintain their be the exact term of d u r a ti on ; b u t he zeou ld not -- !la.tural influence in that Houses y He did not Wish see how any man who wished for the purity of li ‘ombers were anx i ous to a dd ress t h e House on ' u i . t r espass upon their time, when so many Ho Parliament could vote against going into a' COM- Rlittee.—(Hear, hear!)—No man, by giving his s , .nis question, but he could not sit down without vote for that Committ ee , pl e d ge d hi mse lf stcsan y „'S ... 7 . t - efi h - . g his solemn protest against a measure specific plan.• If - the Hon. Mover had not pre- . pared a Bill, the charge would have been made ' 'licit went to deprive any man of his fr•anChise 'Ton - which had been often made before, that nothing ~,,.. mere speculative grounds. -. . . was referred to the Committee to decide 'upon. " Lvir • SvitEasaid, he rose to offer a few obser- If the. entire plan was ,not adopted, he hoped variousa,, to the Manse on this question, rather from some parts of it would. It could not be denied , t . le elifig of the duty which he 'owed to his con- some a certain corruption did exist with respect t Itu enfs, than from the hope of throwing any to the return of Members, and it was not the na aesnght npon a subject which had'been so often h r luso ably discussed.. He concurred entirely in .ture of corruption to stand' still ; but it was said, that the machine of Parliament worked well—it th ,e motion of his Hon. Friend. He considered l ia, ',,, s rl-ptactical question, and one in which they might do so at present, but if the principle was s cot fixed principles to direct them. Ile could unsound, it could not work well long. Those si l t refer to a higher authority, on this : subject who supported Reform, were told that it was ne sh4" the opini on of the late Mr.•Bnrke. He said cessary Ministers should have a certain power in p s 4 t t s the House of Commons - ought to be the ex- that House, for if they lost a . majority, they.must s ituof the feelings and v . I - - of the pee.: Pis . age doctrine ; for if it was necessary that. Ministers \st i l e ', Ofear, hear !)—This was not. the sense in lii " the. lion. Member. for Yorkshire (Mr. S. should always command_a majority, _why w e r e ns au osti') interpreted the opinion of that gre a t the Members o n hi s s id e of the' House to come r sn ; he seemed to have r ea d B ur k e i n a diff e - . there and lose their tim e and health, vainly en ' ' Nn e dition from that which he (M r . Syk es ) h a d deavouring to teach Mi n ist ers th a t the acts of men should be subject to the pure con riot for. - his notion . seemed to be this, that the public gs e i- , 1 of Parliament ---. Ilear• hear ' —He hoped trout • ( , .) o ot os of Commons should be the express image to see the time when the, House of Commons of th ! tile feelings of the people but of the feelings would once more represent the people, and when . 'Ab e 4 , e minister of the day.—(Hear, hear !)—lf seats should not any longe r b e so ld,lik e catt l e . .is r , s v e °Ple were, h owe v er , en titl e d t o a rea l R e- in the market. He kn ew th a t th e sa l e o f seats . - Avas sent at i ve Government, the other questi o n o ot w hether the p eo pl e a t p resen t were or were was arranged upon a scal e o f suc h systemat i c stslireally represent e d ? li e h a d. no h es it a ti on i n corruption, that they brought diff eren t pr i ces, '' th e , n g they were not. If any o ne d ou bt e d thii . according to the freedo m o f vo ti ng; an d h e k new co t votes in that recent House ought to produce that if a seat had the• initials DR Y, it b roug ht ' forte co • ' Hd • nvietion. e appeal, to those votes only half price.- But whatever the plait for effi tile ir "" Proof, of what he advanced, as well as to ciently reforming the representati on m i g ht b e, the notorious existence of corrupt practices was Pe e tesin the 'case of the Queen. There the Or l i„ , ~ this • petitioned ground enough for going into the Committee.-- tl ist ,7 of country almost und . v oe e • 'ler righ ts Majesty should be restored to all her (Hear,hear!) , Captain MABERLY stated, that in giving his , to s i u 1 a'9."o -- the House decided against them by support to the motion for a Committee, he might i•shi c ;;'tit' nearly-as' large in proportion, as those he supposed to sanction, in some measure, the (Il ea agreed to the petitions in the country. Principles of the Bill ; against that notion he -against bear !)—The Petitions of the people P wished to guard himself, objecting, as he did, to success; e xtravagant expenditure had no better the Bill proposed by the Hon. Member; what lie o r b ita ":7• The demands of Ministers, however ex wished now.to offer to' the consideration of the trial ?lie net with the ready concurrence of the • e ) and in House, were ,rather some speculations and crude red uced bservatioris o Ids own on subject o ~ . f the of Reform, cr til ed °o compliance with the universal• prayer show ?• nation. It was not enough that • there than any comment upon the plans ofothers. He was, himself, a most moderate Reformer, and s nch ' lv a be able and wise men in that House ; if would only support such a Reform. as •was essen- Pre sen :r e sufficient on that ground alone to re- tially mild and temperate.--L(Hear, hear I)--It th em s's the people, they might as. svell invite could not be denied that there were defects in 1-, o ___ from foreign countries as look for' them at 114.11e?but they wanted men in that. House who' the. representation ; and it was natural that there Ills ' s _ the , . feelings of English Men ; '.there- were should be, for it was now the result of systematic If r es . clever •and . ingenious .....men in that: wisdom, but arose in the course of events, and n us t} , s r , - but the defect was, that. they were adapted itself to •circumstances, still - carrying 1 ,,,L, 4 er:e_turned by the peoPle. He would with it tli traces of those remote ages from . lent w ltav e a pure. representation .than any ta- which ;t first sprung. The defects he conceived rnCua li„ did e 'Corrupt system could introduce. to he these, that several large towns, which, on ,i, not know whether Reform would have' account of their opulence, commercial import the effect . s s , as bad been said, of bringingthat intoance and populousness, ought to have re re 51d n one b ' 44 1 liar .f" but men who were as wise as serpents sentatiies, were at present unrepresented. In lime rn.mhess as doves, but at all events, though, the •march of time, another defect had arisen, I _ nu tg t be returned of a different character, Corresponding to that; it was, that' several towns 7 ii:l7,tWa_e.,!l p_refer purity- of councils in .that 'House which had once a degree of opulence and consi- I v i th u ou e t u i s t Play-of, • th,emiost distinguished abilities d_eration, ceased to possess them,' and yet were He was therefore decidedly of opi- represented: It was his idea that these latter Ilion that th ..inns _ e Rouse, ought to go into a_Commit- places should be disfranchised, and their fran- Oefethtef plan n h he did not, in every respect, approve chise conveyed to the others which were entitled burharrt. _proposed by the Hon, ' Member for to it. , This would have the effect of conciliating ... . _ ..(Mr. Lainbton.) The viee of that plan the people, who: werenaturally irritated from the was, that it excl i electors wit '' used ed -a certain description of absence of that political power which they had a ssor instance ose interests ought to be represented • right to possess. lie then went on to state the .. : s it shut out all • reasons on which he intended to proceed, and uouseholde • • artrzans who were not 8 ft- rs, he did . not entered into an historical statement to skew that u ra ge . I) approve of Universal but l i 6 th' ° n 'an abhorred • it more than he did, . there was of old a discretioriary power in the Elio Olar • that the • artisans should have.a Crown to disfranchise boroughs. - \ o less than e In.th e choi °ear !)_,./,,. .ce of RepresentativeSs--s(H e a s 68 boroughs were disfranchised which had rel.- . • ' 'Lfs ho • • ) )ey ".. ) 4 ever, could i ii z • • .lat.. i n tn - 1 be discus se d w h en wily sent Tdembers to Parliament, and seve n • • - . , aChineitte •• If • rat boroughs hadSclaimed exemption from return- , he " opinion Is' 't it es• - liemight give would rpect . friplinSing Representatives. As the Crown had that say that I proposed, . the first and most efficient plan discretionary power formerly of disfranchising . . which did not 'Meet his approbatron WAS that it did of Ex the mode oielection: ; Ttiia he thought the most essential part* of • all really beneficial plans of Reform, 'as it was More an object that the Representative should be the free, Uninflu enced chOice of the people, than that the fran chise should be, extended ; and to obtain this free choice, he thought something like vote •by ballot ought to be adopted, as that would prese r V e election saf e from the froWn s of poorer, or the more debasing and fatal exertion of influence.— Nothing could, in his opinion, be more fallacious than the supposition; that if the people enjoyed a greater share in the act of choosing their repre sentatives, they would exclude from the'llouse of Commons men of intelligence and integrity.-- That was in 'Other words to say, that the people would willingly and knowingly get rid of what was conducive to their own ' (rood. Mr. D. B ROWNE opposed the motion. He always believed that'the word " Reform" meant nothing but alteration. Sir GEO. ROBINSON said, he would vote for the Committee, although lie Could . by no means agree to all the parts of the plan proposed by the Ilan. Member for Durham. That 'some Reform of Parliament was necessary, appeared to him to haire been abundantly proved during the pre sent Session of Parliament, by the way in which the Petitions of the' peOple had' been treated"" in that House. It 'was" impossible, indeed, hat the people could expect redress of their grievances from a House of CommonS constituted as the pre sent was. Mr. THOMAS WILSON said he could not con sent to. go into the Cotnmittee; at the same. time he should declare that he would be at all times ready to give his vote for the redress of any spe cific grievance which was pointed out. When ever .any instance of corruption in any borough came' before the House, he would be willing to vote for its disfranchisement. He could not concur in the principle that a Member of Par liament was bound by the opinion of his immediate Constituents. His duty was to consider net so much the particular wishes of those who sent him;'as the general 'Welfare' of the 'whole community.- If Members were t o attend to. the wishes of the People, why one wish would be; that they should not pay any taxes.—(Bear !),—and he should be glad to know how the business of the country could be carried. on without taxes ? The effect ;of the lion. Member's proposed Bill would be that the constituents would have entirely too much tontroul civec their' RepreSentatives. lie was aware that in - many places at the present moment,- if a Mernber happened to 'differ from his'cOnStituents, he Van the. risk of losing his seat. This,, however, was not the case in the- metro polis ; and he could say that in the 'whole course of his canvas, - he had only in two instances been questioned as to' what .his - conduct would be i n . Parliament. I n th e one Instance he was asked (add . he did . not expect such' a question from so intelligent a geritleMan) Whether he would vote for Catholic Emancipation ? and; upon answering in, the negative, the gentleman told him he'should not 'have his vote. In the other instance, he was asked whether he would "vote for a Reform in Parliament ? He answered, that that would de- pend upon the shape in - which 'such a question was brought forward. The person who asked the question then said, he would' give him his support: = In conclUsion, the Hon. Member said that the per Son who was sent to 'Parliament should not consider him Self as the Representative of those alone who sent him ) but of the great body of the people. The CHANCELLOR of the'EXCHEQUER could . not consentto'going into a Committee, which should have. laidliown . to-it as a basis for' its proceedings' reguiatonss'uch as those alluded to in the speech of the Hon. Member for Durham; although he would not let slip this opportunity to pay a tri bute to the temper and moderation which that Hon. Member had displayed in submitting his plan of Reform to - ,the House. That speech, be' thought, reflected equal credit on the Hon. Mem= ber, as well : for the industry which he Appeared to have bestowed on the subject, as for the inge nuity .of the arguments by which he had at-' tempted to support the position, he set out with: He professed, however, lie should rather consider it :less, dangerous . to . go' into a Committee of this nature armed . ,with ",something like a distinct and detailed plan of practical Reform, than that such a Committee. should be left to investij gate all the different visionary . plans 'of Reforrzi which had,. for a time distracted many ,Within as well as out of doors. The' plan prOposed "would go to a complete alteration of the System on which the House now stood. One Consequence would be . to Change,' 'in "a' Material degree,' 'the CoUnty representation; by the - addition of copyholders and leaseholders. The lion.. Gentleman- (Mr. Larnbton) who brought forward the trintion, did not say ivhether his plan included -ill'leasehold-- . . .boroughs, and exercised -it in so many: instances, he did not see why the entire Legislatnre WaS not 'competent to exercise such a power; when necessary, to rectify the representative system in conforMity with the spirit of the Constitution.-- - -- (Hear !)—lle -then stated that he objected to the whole principle of the Bill ; it started upon a wrong principle ; by recognising householders as competent to vote, it made property the basis of the right.of -voting, and. if property was Made the basis, the number of votes ought to be increased, on a scale graduated according. to the. Nalue of that property, and in proportionas householders were taxed ; but to make property the basis, and then proceed on .a principle of equality, was an objection not to be overcome. He Could not agree with those who were of opinion that the House should - be purely popular ;- he believed it was necessary to the true support of the State and the . Laws, that both the Peers and the Crown ought to have some influence in that HouSe. He did not think it should too exactly represent the Will'of the peOPle. He could refer to historical facts to shew, that a House of Coinmons, wholly returned and influenced by the popular will, was not the best for promoting the prosperity of the country. The long Parliament was •an example of this kind ; that Parliament was supported by . the whole power of the people ; but the check of influence being removed, it overturned both the House of Peers and the Throne.—(Hear, hear!) appealed also for the truth of his positions to the Parliamentary history in the reign of Charles the Second ; on the whole, he would prefer that House to be connected with the Peers and the Crown, and to be in some measure under the direction of secret influence, than to be con troule-d by the harsh and overbearing .power of popular clamour. He had .made - these .observa tions because no other gentleman had offered what he conceived to be a practicable plan. Mr. RAAISDEN contended that there was a•ne cessity for inquiry ; he was always of this opi nion, but he was. more strengthened in it than ever by what had happened at the close of the last year and the beginning of the present; he alluded to the conduct of his Majesty's Minis ters relative to the Queen. He never understood what object they had in lending - themselves to such an act of oppression.-- 7 -(Hear, hear !)—lle then adverted to the principle of Reform as con tained in the Bill for the Disfranchisement of - Grampound, which WaS'introduced by his Noble Friend, the Member for Huntingdonshire= (Lord John Russell). The principle of that Bill he conceived, if acted upon, would have led 'to a full and efficient Reform, but,' in the - hands Of the Hon. Member for Yorkshire, it had been so mutilated that all its efficacy" was destroyed: .Though he would vote for a Committee, 'he was not prepared to go the whole length with the Hon. Mover in his plan of-Reform. In the prin ciple of shortening the duration of Parliament he agreed with him, provided some plan was de vised for diminiShing the expences of election.--- (Hear, hear !)—lf the elective franchise was to be given to householders, it.should be recollect ed how many must be thereby deprived of the elective franchise. He could not agree in any prOposition of ,dividing the country into 'districts for the purpoSes of election, as in a neighbouring State. His notion of Parliament was, that it ought to be the people's House, and ought to re main so, and that the executive sboUltV have a Controulibg power any yvhere else than there.- (Hear, hear!) Mr.HAniiO Jib was anNious to state the grounds of his , vote thus early in the debate, because he was satisfied that nothing but the most command ing eloquence would be sufficient to arrest their attention at a later hour of the evening. He would not now enter into the details of the, ques= tion,of Reform, but would give his vote for it on the ground of necessity ; for, to quote the opi nion which had been so frequently referred to, he was satisfied that, if Reforth did not take place from within the House; it would from with out. Therefore, in . vOting for it, lie thought he should be doing not only an act of justice, but also one of necessity. If he were asked what species of Reform would he wish to have effected, he would say, that kind which gave to the people that power of which they were now deprived— an effective cheek over the enormous expendi ture of the public money, and also a check on those coercive measures which had been carried to so great an extent by the present Administra tion. He did not .speak of one ,Administration alone, for he would not give his support to any set of Ministers who' were not substantively pledged to the question of Parliamentary Re form.—(Hear !)—lt might be said that if the Reform spoken of took place, the House of Com mons would swallow up the power of the Lords : but that was a result which he thought could not be expected ; for no man could believe the State to be secure unless the Crown and the Peers had their just influence in the scale of the -Constitu tion: As to the influence exercised by Ministers, great as it was, he did not think it was so very extensively exercised as it might be, .considering the temptations and the means they had ; and lie thought also. that the House and the country ought rather to he obliged to them for not hav ing carried their influence farther; but what he wished to see done was, that those temptations should be removed, from them. In conclusion, the lion. Member said that he would vote for going into the Comniittee, without pledging him self to any thing more than that the subject should be duly and seriously considered. -Mr..RICARDO observed,. that the subj e ct o f Re form was . the most important question which could come hefere'that House, - He was anxious, there fore, to declare his opinion with reference to it. He 'agreed with the Hon.- Member for Durham. that • it was quite necessary the House of Com mons should truly represent the people. It was not necessary for him to .have the proof of the recent votes of the House to be convinced that the • people were not represented. (Hear !) From the manner in which that House was con stituted, he - was quite certain before of that fact. He 'would- embrace any plan which was likely to give the country an ,efficient representation. lie was about to 'deliver a sentiment, which he knew would -not meet with general approbation there. The only part of the Honourable Mover's plan , ers, or thoie only whose leases were fOr life. A leas s eholder for a small term of years, 'even for twenty-one, did not stand on the same footing of independence as a leaseholder for life. 'There ---- - were other parts of the Bill which werit to' over'. turn' every existing' right, by extending suffrage too widely.- ;The distinction, was. hardly per ceptible between llttn•ersal Suffrage. and the right of every householder to vote at elections:' Independent of objections to,. the. general prin ciple, there 'were many points in the Ilia that• did not.meet the approbationipven of those Gen-. tletneu who maintained, generally, that. sonde.' Reform was necessary. It was' taken for granted, .that the,.great body of the people were anxious for some change in the present system of repre sentation. Ile saw. no evidence'ef Such a' wish. It was true, that in a number of Petitions it was mentioned incidentally. He did' not mean the slightest disrespect to those Petitions, but it should be observed that 'they all alluded to some specific grievance, which the Petitioners thOught could be redressed by *a. Retorm in 'Parlia ment. , Some complained of 'taxation, some of agricultural, and others'of commercial distress. It was impossible that the grievances complained of could be all removed by the 'same remedY. If.those who petitioned on grounds distinct from reform, could' be s'iliarattrd 'from' 'the friends of. the propoition of the Hon. - Mover, the number of the latter would be found very inconsiderable. The Petitions a rose partly from artificial! excite ment,' Many - from unreal 'grievance-sr and some from a party who desired Reform,but constituted only .a small proportion of the population:• To say that the House of Commons did not exPress the popular feeling was an . assertion totally void of foundation. It was happily so consti tuted as not to fluctuate immediately with .every sudden change of popular opinion ; but the public feeli ng , d e lib erate l y expresse d , was always found irresistable .in that House. . There . was no instance in which; when s o expr e ss e d,. .it was not successful: The abolition of the Slave Trade, Wh en fi rs t pr o pose d, w as not agreeable to . a Majority of- that House: The. voice of the people; however; having been deliberately ex pressed, and enforced by argument, at last pre vailed. The same might be said otvarions other measures that were not at first agreeable to a jority of that House. There were instances also where Parliament swayed what for a time might have seemed to be public opinion, and by so doing rendered very important services 'to' the country. It should be recollected that popular feeling was powerfully influenced by the publiC press, in which, it could not bedenied, that much talent was 'frequently displayed ;. • that many questions were ably treated, .bdt still there. was so much misrepresentation and falsehood, - that it was very doubtful whether public opinion solortn ed could be often correct.A pother argument offered in support of Reform was the influence of the Crown.-He would not now pretend to say ,whether, when a resolution was agreed to, that the influence of the Crown had increased, and was increasing, that resolution was correct , or not; but whatever inight have been then theinfluence of the Crown, it was now counteracted by such strong checks as lessened it very considerably. The publica tion of what took place in that House, the free dom with which the deliberations of Parliament were commented 'on by 'the public pressi the ex pression at public rneetings.of 'popular feeling, wee • counteracting causes -which greatly out -weighed any addition of-influence the Crown de rived from the increase of . establishments. So great-was the influence of the; public press, and the freedom with which it discussed and com mented on passing events, that foreigners. unac quainted with the degree of liberty enjoyed in . this country, frequently thought we were - on the eve of a revolution. Such were the circumstances which, while. they existed, must always render hopeless any attempt On the liberties of, the people. The country never: enjoyed a greater degree of rational freedom .than under the. Par-. liament.as now constituted ; and they could not better provide for the .prosperity.and ;liberty of those who were to come after them, than by pre serving•inviolate that constitution of. Parliament. *under which the country had so long flourished. These being his opinions on the principle of the. Bill, and • various'- parts.of the proposed pian,not, having met the approbation even of ,those Gen. tlernen who were in the habit of expressing them selves friendly to Reform, he should therefore oppose the motion. • The cry of Qizestion rbeing pretty general, the gallery was•ordered to be cleared for a division. CANNING,SiIid ) thatas most of those Gen tlemen were absent' who usually took a leading' part in the debates of that House ; as the Hon. Gentleman also who brought forward the motion (Mr. Larnbton) was not .in his place, he should not, under those circumstances, oppose what ap peared to be the wish -of the 'House; by 7 oGring any observations on' the subject.—The -House then divided— •• Ayes - - - - 43. Noes -12 Majority against the motion SPOILED .STAMPS. . . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER m oved the Order of the Day for tbe furthe r consideration of thell,eport of the Spoiled Stamps' Bill.L—After a few words from Lord Mil ton, the Chancellor of the Exehequet,' the Solicitor-ffenera, Mr. (Irenfell, Mr. Hume, Mr. Wilson, and Mt. •Ellite, the Report was ordered to bkt taken into further considetation on Monday se'nnight. •- . . The Report of the Church Briefs' Bill was brought up, and ordered to be taken into . further consideration on Monday -se'nnight. • • HEREDITARY REVENUE OF SCOTLAND. • ' The Order of the day being moved for the se'- ' cond reading of the, Hereditary Revenue of Scot. land Bill, Lord A.THAat . im-ox,was proce-eding to make some observations on the Bill, when Mr. LAMBTON, whd had ,been- absent during the .divi sion on his own motion, entered the House, and a laugh was-heard from Some Members as 'the. Hon-Gentleman was passing on to his seat. Mr.LAMBTON said, that on entering the House,' he heard -a laugh, and from the countenance of some Hon.•Gentlernen,' who"-took a part ire it,.he was led to suppose that the laugh was directed at him. He wished that any of those Hon/ntle men would 'stand up and. avow' that such- as -the case. Some of those to.whom he alltded:,would doubtless have the manliness :to clo.So, if they felt conscious that the imputation:was - well founded. The SetAxEn said,' the House must- feel that its own dignity-.would be best consulted; :and most effectually secured, by taking care that no Member should meet with. any. treatment, incon sistent. with the rules of order and decorum.- -Whether the offence was. 'conveyed in language or by any other mode, it was .the duty ,of the House at once to put it down.. . But ,as the Hon. Member himself , expressed come, doubt, he ,would submit to him -whether the circus statice was such as could be 'preferred as. a charge, and Whether it might not be fairly presumed-that nothing im proper, was intended ?t , Mr 4 LAMETON sairi,, he. had retired , from,,the House for an hour for the purpose of taking some refreshment.‘• Not having, taken any during . the whole of the• preceding night, tw thought he was justified in doing _so. On n his return, the Member. for Middlesex-,. (Mr. 'Whitbread), informed him . of- the.., unexpected ; circum stance that a ditision had ..taken. place. 'When he- entered the House, ,he: heard a. laugh, and saw the faces of some Hon. Gentlemen: Who took part in it.directed towards.hiw, as:if to imply that he was to blame for the. sudden conclusion to .which the -question had- been .brought.- '.-.The Member for Chichester ,(Mr: Huskisson) was, one7nf the Hon. Gentlemen to,whom. he .alluded, and also the Member: for Londonderry (Sir G. Hill). on. whose countenance he observed' the. same exprcs. sion.—(Cries of ." Chair, chair !)—Mr. Larnbton