The Sun. — London, England, 1845-02-26 00:00:00

TRH SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY MORNING, FEBRUARY 26 , 1845. i they would substitute the words, which the Hon. Member for Plymouth had taken from him, " prejudicially affected" for' lying Lear." Mr. ENTWISLE said that he thought the constitution of appeals to the Board of Trade was good for the railways themselves. By that means they were saved from falling 1 4 , nrd ' into the h an d s o f an attorney, w h o hurried them sho r a d OUGHA s ot r , BAIL gave notice that ' 00 Friday next, he up a bill. F or t h ese reasons h e thought this course m cond readi ng o f the 8.11 in Error Bill.o f appeal 11 be better fir the companies themselves. wou r . Th e . N. DIVORCE. The Hon. Member for Cockermouth thought that the present i yte _ _, O out and LEA kNED Lour) also g .v e notice of his . wording of the clause limited the facility a appeal, and he .., r tribunal Nortaunntns!‘o.n Thursday week, to introduce a Bill upon the im- • ( Mr. Entwis/e) entirely agreed with him in the observation. attach e q °Ject of the transfer of the jpri.d•ction in divorces to Lord G. SOMERSET would make no opposition to the km of -tad pi u z vv . recommendation' of the Hon. Member for Cockermouth. ru hi , par Fr...LIAM presented several petitions from va- Mr. HAWES obiected to the jurisdiction given by the " Wales, Westmoreland, and York. in favour of present clause to tile Board of Trade. He thought they Ltrrd Br% , tr' t he oill;t not to extoid the lowers of an irresponsible tri- day next '-' 1 oil gave notice of his intention, on Thurs- booal. The Board ~ • rods we 3 a secret tribunal. and he put a que , tion to her I.Sl , jes , y's Goverment quit••• ohiected to ils , •.71S; itlltil,ll. dativeC , A the proceedings which had taken place with respect Lord G. SOMERSET said that if the Hon. Member ur '' ,l and Calabria, would mention any other court which would better answer to r d r , BANKRUPTCY. the purpose than that of the Board of Trade, he should be earned CA BANKRUPTCY. wished to know when his Noble and very happy to give his best consideration to it— klt'n'd Friend en his left (Lord Brougham) intended to pre- but at present he was giving, by this clause, Alf u the petition with respect to the London Commissioner® an opportunity of appeal to those who felt them akr 2 L td t PtcY • selves aggrieved by the encroachments of any railway petitio_ ROUGFIAM said that he could have presented the line, which they did not before possess. Although the clause . fh e , u , r ! a week ago, but that he had last •it off, in order that gave powers to the Board of Trade to decide appeals of this tk lect might be fully considered. If the returns sw isfied kind, he did not at all agree with the Hon. Member, that it h ad ;'t" since he had given the notice the Commissioners would be a setting aside of the courts of law. petitionended more to the business, he would not present the Mr. FOX MAULE said that, though there could not be the c o L !-Fe, however, could net think it right that five of any men better or snore honourable than these who formed leasingulotrssioners should be out of town during the summer, the Board of Trade, yet, as they were an irresponsible ft. hei r I ! _,ne . Commissioner to transact the whole business. tribunal, he notbjected to granting them the extended powers 4 4 0,00--ccushil,s then adjourned till Thursday morning, at mentioned his clause. Mr. HAYTER would rather confide in their decisions than in those of any two justices of the peace. Mr. AGLIONBY was surprised that the Hon. Member for Lambeth, and the Right Hon. Gentleman who had spoken after him, should have wandered so far from the real ques tion before the House. His suggestion was to substitute the words " prejudicially affected," for the words " lying near," and in that alteration lie was supported by the Hon. Gentle man near him (Mr. Gill), and by the Hon. Member for Lan cashire. Mr. HAWES explained. Mr. ENTWISLE said that Hon. Gentlemen overlooked the fact that the proposed tribunal was not to redress griev ances, but to prevent them.—(Hear.) Mr. STANSFIELD thought that the clause would give toe great powers to the Board of Trade, and that it would not be efficient in preventing people's property from being injured. Mr. WALLACE wished to know in what way his country men were to obtain redress under this clause? Was a man to travel from John o'Groat's house to London at a penny per mile? If he did so, he would surely lose his tem per on the way, finding himself carried at twelve miles an hour, and all the other trains passing him-,-(A laugh—or was the appeal to be to the Board of Trade in Edinburgh ? Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET said that the Hon. Mem ber did not give his countrymen sufficient credit for their ability to write, whereas the appeals under this clans* were to be forwarded in writing. The object of the clause was to afford protection to those who could not obtain it under the existing law. Sir T. ACLAND supported the clan* Mr. HAWES said that the 47th (+tense raised the whole question, although the Noble Lord opposite said that his dis cussion of that clause was irrelevant. He asked the Noble Lord to point out to him any precedent for a tribunal such as the one proposed, sitting in secresy. Would agents or wit nesses be admittad ?—(Hear.) Lord G. SOMERSET defended the clause, as providing a much better mode of redress than any other which could be devised. All the relief would be given in favour of small proprietors against powerful companies. Mr. HENLEY suggested the postponement of this clause until the 47th came under discussion. The power proposed to be given might be the means of throwing a great deal of odium on the .Executive, as the reasons for their decisions could not be known. Mr. Aglionby's amendment wa s then agreed to. On the question that the clause, as amended, be agreed to, Mr. HAWES proposed to add the following words : " Provided always that parties interested may ap pear, by themselves or their agents, before the Board of Trade." The Honourable Member said his object was to raise the question seriously whether this should be an open or a secret tribunal. If the Noble Lord were disposed to maintain this tribunal with all its powers, be could not help telling him that, in his opinion, it was a tribunal the existence of which he would eventually be the first to regret. Lord G. SOMERSET saids:the question now proposed to be raised was one of very great importance. The proposition of the Hon. Gentleman was one which, at first sight, had plausibility at least on its side, because it was always desirable that matters of this kind, so largely affecting the public interest, should be conducted in the most open manner. There were, however, peculiar consi derations attached to the various matters brought before the Board of Trade, which might make such a condition inconvenient. It was impossible for him to pledze either himself or his colleagues to support any particular pro posal, but 1:e would suggest to the Hon. Gentleman to pre pare a clause for discussion in a full House. After a few words from Mr. F. MAULE, Mr. HAWES said that on clause 47 he would raise the question, whether or not this clause should be omitted, and he would withdraw his present proposal. Mr. FOX MAULE thought it would be better to post pone the discussion of the measure till the Right Hon. Baro net at the bead of her Majesty's Government could be pre sent at an afternoon sitting, even if some important business should be deferred to make way for it. The clause was then put and agreed to. The House resumed, and the Chairman reported progress After some remarks from Mr. HAWES against proceeding with the discussion in the absence of the influential Mem bers of the Government, Lord G. SOMERSET said, he would not proceed with clause 47, which was the important one, without due consideration, and he should be prepared to state to the House the course he should adopt at the next morning sitting, which he proposed should be on Thursday next. The CHAIRMAN then obtained leave to sit again on Thurs day next, at Twelve, and the House adjourned till Five. Awe Thee ° 41 G USE OF COIII3IOIVS, Feb. 25. 18 'r4ittee on private Bills sat to-day at Twelve o'clock. Lora G. c, CO MPANIES CLAUSES BILL. „ '''OMERSET moved the order of the d a y f or re teipireport on this Bill. tiae A WES wished to know if th e amen d ments proposed +ord ill o,adittEeenn.snEv se:id they had. His reason . for now furher consideration of the Bill, was in order ' , eve t i i .Su bet reprinted in its amended form. He would 'lt em to "‘ it he re -committed on Thursday, pro forma.— _ (II I.W .AI . rd c r . O COMPANIES CONSOLIDATION BILL. ERSET moved the further consideration of "4 „ t hoe t 4 ,,,one to four, i nc l us i ve , were rea d and agreed to ‘-;l:44""servation. The t o te was omitt e d. teat4,,t; clause having been rea d, p ot et• ew " L IONBY said the provision for obtaining the con note 4 thatners in this clause was extremely vague. It pro - stet the consent should be in writing. The clause did ~." 414 4 ghati, e ; it should be so, but the introduction of the mit vir r • • re (4 iting would render the mode of proceeding L, Lord G i u,te• "grodo„,.'‘ANVILLE SOMERSET had no objection to the t tsele sz Cgon of the words proposed, though to him they seemed 14 'd It Won the consent were obtained, that was sufficient, matter little in what way it was expressed. : 4 h e „. -L 'IONBY was a friend to consistency in everything, ~,teis t. rbed to assimilate the clauses of this Bill, so that e eti Lte or misconception should arise. In another clause make -r-nt Was requi re d to b e i n wr i ting, and it was well to Xo(othe clauses assimilate. fich e said, befor e th e c l ause was put, he !kt th t° Point out the great disregard which had been shown en - ti r i i _gbts of owners of land in this Bill. The Bill pro- It'ot?irkter.ai deviation might be made of 100 yards from the ettpl ete ," e• Now a deviation of such an extent might 4etw'l3:_lestroy the value of a piece of land, the subdivi -Iseet.."-len the owner never contemplated when he gave his ic""the'me running through his property. There was o k,, al Board of Trade, but that was, in his opinion, Lorr er tse• ,t 4 Whi,h(iItANITILLE SOMERSET said that the provision tairi.the Hon. and Gallant Member complained was t 'l th 1,„ r. e next clause. tTortii:ll the said that, as the consent was to be proved J u stieea in petty sessions, it was immaterial whether at lit w e • . t. A GL . u .s in writing or not. ieir he t,'"BY said that when he first came into that a t `t h. ,t , t on ., mm2_ , Committees , and had foolishly be tB tie , pit , Railway companies were actuated . solely by br e glad it; but he had since then become wiser. He saitherefore, that the Gallant Officer opposite had t„.!stat, right s of the public befitre the Committee. The z 4414 4,l.Uompanies were large Lied pwerful bodies, and P otect themselves ; but the landowners, though '41 4 POWere qv: ke a ,,. -4 .• in their own way, had not the Ish eti ';', and were often sufferers. But there was one taliat h„ no body protected. He meant the public. This th„ ost s hamefully negligent of the rights of the people. 4tere"Shtionstruction of railways the people possessed their arki e „lhe use of the p u bli c ways . Th ere was no right th Pith ". or better estabiished. But no sooner was a IttZ,t the °Jetted than it unhesitatingly interfered with every t 4 1 . Public possessed ; too often crossing and destroying; te,Y, the public markets; and, where it did not de "'n `'./ oft • • ee • en interfered, to a serious xtent of none of those who had charge of these the neon °aid h'", "ad any power of preventing the interruption. iip roat c told by the advocates of railways that they were N h „tliiß i ve I ,, e , s t Public utility, and that minor considerations „Ng, - I ,eoe l - .1 to them. Why should passengers be put to 14 %.' 11 4 h„,'n'tence? Let all ways be put on the same foot /OM e s ' 'toned that foot-passengers would be equally ao reLatllttyprs were. thought that his Hon. Friend's remarks had ilthe GitA,",fte clause under discussion. L4lr.L''Ortflko4 VILLE SOMERSET thought the alteration tile - IliOrq, °,/ the clause, proposed by the Hon. Member -beret„' would rather weaken the protection afforded 4 1 . yti - • 8 of land than strengthen it, and he could rot th old • ANlseu t to any change in it. 8 4, asie,N - BY proposed that the word " highway" illy - ViNBlituted for carriage road. `t, S e 4 aclud e ,,SLE was of opinion that highways were suffi )t.°lr, Peee a ...',' in the words carriage way, and he therefore •,'IGI,/,-1,,`3 7 for the alteration. b . - stlh f ;a th e " i -ABY said that the words " street or carriage e'ause were not sufficient to include footpaths 11'eq 8 313. 41. 1 , to whereas, the word " highways," which he h:solv'ne jo!uostitute, would include them. (He read from hetiil, ti ee the definition of the word hi g h ways , t o 14 7 calr sitt wee "as by itself more comprehen s i ve th an th e wor d s I_ t ar,, n ol, :rx O lt- 'at k - L.OUSE concurred in every word that had t I , te le . vt--ser Member for Cockermouth, and hoped he cad $ , - (AW D f., In his amendment. h.yrOrri thought that there could be no objection I. ll seZ th e highways" being introduced into the clause. , 11 1 „Vit it was quite unnecessary to amend any kt:te'Thieh'alwav Bill, if the 47th clause were allowed to Ott co Dovre,,BN'e - the re ' ilway department of the Board of i!ileitici,..to alter and amend any railwayßill, "where the to o with the Act might be impossible or incon t7tiet t a t nth thought this clause (47) would give a great ttst"reehrwer. and that if it were passed the House itiot h l st io ,e itself to amend any railway Bill. ttisrj 41 IORP thought that private rights could S econsi rotecte i let • % lEI T P • d '• that to il , It %t end , SET said it would be remembered . 1 10h ot ev e ,„„ ed to introduce any new principles into the 'be Possible question were to be raised the Bill litoh,ll4ssed that session. At the same time, he had littNtez,4sBant fair discussion. - suPported the amendment. 1 ? the ti vor ds from M r . Aglionby, Mr. Stansfield, and AZt air, u se divided, w h en th ere appeare d — I t _ kiln i'..glionby's amendment r a. ; . for the amendment ~t,iciab.l.loN:l4t.,,Was carried. k Nt lOsj t, '4 . suggested a verbal amendment in the t ih„ was agreed to without opposition. i ttp to° the ORY objected to the words of the clause 4to t Zt rAv'tolication of any intended deviation from the ~,:ke r ter i t . Plee : PB f ,,,er in the locality where the deviation ' , Lip th e ' In i , a tle thought the advertisement ought to k zi t, 4t \, b6 P , ers 1 10 4 .-" , ,ord /G. of general circulation. Ile would never I I) , main] Somerset) of anything like smug 111,,etett''ear i o „_Y this looked like it. Let the advertise :l,l 4 1 ) 4), r , Lue Lit-won papers; they all saw them; but 0 01 4 ()Nl,',,ere only read in the immediate vicinity. 41th Oeh 4 SET said the proposition of the lion. .ti c , tl an pre_eer would rather give a facility for escaping froh,Yent it. the localities most affected by the 4 ltt t t o t tl ei ‘ ‘ 4s4.btehplinis the London papers . were . not read. t e , °',gtlt. there was no occasion for advertis ',Cls4 "utb '44Q 'ties f 'ASET said the object of the clause was to t to , rote a 141 ti, ,, k‘.:.,0ei0„ 11 3 7 unfair or unjust annoyance, by raising t i t th t stit o oeyond a certain level. N),44 (1 ° Pr,, te ! . ,', l e only objection he had to the clause i l / 4t 4ti . P 4 „,,Z0 iet4 - ` l( t ui whatever was necesary to be given . 414,,qb. , 45,:, by this House, for there were no clas it I , s _,LL more by railroads than landowners. 011, 1 1 0 Dre".4of rtted upon the clause as one intended for ..,_'11.411 owners, and to enable the Board of 4 : tt atq 4,4ft.,,,p, deviations from the line, although the k :,, 1 4 4 ktiq 1,1 7 such might be consenting to it. He ' , Foi e the t t rest e b y the Gallant Colonel opposite, that the th7r4elqhey h4" l great power in this House ; but he le tii Pr et It i tlllo ß ;n7 power whatever here.—(Hear.) t 40x , , of soelleved the clause to be intended for I, t tihiti..4l to holders of land, but there should be 1:; 4 tl e, t hnitl t tn, they could appeal in certain cases. es e 4V' et t i , u said he should either lay down very ne, he r . g , t s v e Power of appeal to the Board of ‘tert ''''neeived, was the most suitable tribunal was e w k „ well known that landowners threw je,tqq,-,-.(ciiteof railroads, in order to get a high price , h _lviNy .of " No, no.") Ott i (I th, t ",, a 'd that he agreed with the Hon. Mem oea„ th i , eat there Nl vgitte a u -clau se. as a great vagueness in the tcwea die t the term lying near a deviation lyi r Yar ds a uce, a quarter of a mile, half a mile, 4 ti w ti t th ould propose to strike out the tea v sh . -Elt's L ' at would obviate all twee uncertainty. te 4 tit n T said thatthethoebweocrtdws t his i t r it' er to Meet tiNhich he had in othtS•lb, ration would render the passage still of '4144 ° 1 1P • ePre ee said that he could not sit there and t,,,Ns e ntatioes of the Hon. Member for Ply tlo4o,44.%.raPhropr.ietPar,irietors ofland. The lion. Member had t kf t tie t tles • nad thrown obstacles in the way of Di 41 •ult, i n Order to 1 4 ,t. t , Ott o ~ e ena,„ increase the amount of their i'l4 B ort ei i.thei r 13 7 ) landowners were fully entitled to OhneLPertY, but he would deny that they nehh„,,Teans as the Hon. Member had inti- V,*, (l . l lg el ',,ted retort the charge on railway compa ct4`plte'r'Zle'relthe pvurit)!ste.rnents for the purpose of catching 1111 1 011 .1 . 14 le m ' s e 15 L , stating that the holders of their _er_c,ent. for their money. The small vilv4.4 e 4. 4.,i4 - 4 wer e 0 , 0 that s r , ‘ er guilty of such conduct. t4htt 00 1, of th e r 73 Member of that House who fell nii` B rturi ate "°u• and Gallant Officer might count mOt 44 tt „ 3 to en , .---(Laughte kin I th r.) That Han. Member v' j kl i.eth as „ ietor t _ His reference had been to the k m e. Tt i t riot not to the small owners. The er the place was lying near, Oh, 11l o. T4llBl recte klii-er•aß -811 1 d .1. 4 b Yt the deviation from the ori kiri-tar," ""erelore A'te ee s th at - 11 d sub st , Pro Pose, to strike out the d,h th e pre . ILltte the words " prejudicially trSit feriOXllVid en pile tom a property and not its IYtb t 4sheyo jroperty 011,, 415. h., 840 eit to cpensation. x t 1 ": 11 t1): ( to ' r at be quite agreed with the Hon. might be very greatly At the ' t ahr "i"mtitie alipipiootiiisieted range of . deviation l ' l V °4 4h tlt o e r"ntr "t tt kit - ttt b th e 0 Y: ft, railway coll . commanding a view t),_4s both fro Nina' line banfiment was raised Vat til os% 2‘s in pros. , and immediately the house r,, t ,* 11 114 41. A oln. aye and air. The house which Rah) Peel would now be hardly worth o'tage of that if there were ;t1 111,1 e ,for it _ proof ought to lie on the 1„;, , L Pro uri , w as an utter impossibility tir e N • 11, • e l"- who h, L on „_ , resided one hundred Nt 11 4 e t t , e Gt t? core all that di::-tanco 11° (;0 , tho'bi.;ti; wiZAtc;,se.i , and keep- N Wlele a Lee. R e uelaY of the railway Bill fat e thic p oi „ hoped, however, they vo c i er ;, at the present moment, "; alld when 4 wa§ concluded The House resumed at Five o'clock, when there was a con siderable attendance of the Members, and, from the conversation, there appeared considerable excitement. Several petitions were presented by Lord Pollington, Sir Howard Douglas, Mr. Ewart, and other Members, for rail way and other private Bills, but front the loud conversation of the Members the names could not be correctly ascertained in the gallery.. Sir JOHN YARDE BULLER brought up the reports of several railway Bills, and stated that the standing orders of 'hese before the Committee had been complied with. CALEDONIAN RAILWAY BILL. This Bill was read a second time. Mr. MACKINNON presented a petition from 1,800 inha• bitants of the borough of Lambeth against the extension of the South-Western Railway. A petition was also presented from 480 inhabitants of the borough of Lambeth for a free passage over Waterloo-bridge. Mr. BROTHER TON presented a petition from Manchester against the sale of spirits on the Sunday. Mr. S. CRAWFORD presented a petition from the rate payers of Rochdale, complaining of the introduction of the New Poor-law Act by the Poor-law Commissioners into that district. The petitioners prayed that they might be heard by counsel at the bar in support of the allegations contained in the petition. The Hon. Gentleman gave notice of his intention to move to morrow that the petition be printed with the Votes. Lord M AHON presented petitions against the Medical Reform Bill. Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition against the Aledical Reform Bill. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr. COLLET? gave notice that he would ask the Right Hon. Baronet, the Frst Lord of the Treasury, whether he intended to appoint another Bishop of Bath and Wells during the life of the present incumbent? and in the event of his receiving an answer in the negative, whether, at the death of the present bishop, he intended to propose another Bishop of Bath and Wells, or to unite that diocese with the diocese of Salisbury. Mr. S. CRAWFORD gave notice that on Tuesday, March 11, he would call the attention of the House to the petition which he had just presented from the ratepayers of Rochdale, against the New Poor-law system. Mr. WALLACE postponed, from the 6th to the 11th, his motion with r. Bard to railways. Colonel WOOD gave notice that, in the Committee on the Poor-law Settlement Bill, he should move that any poor person who had been resident in a parish for a year without receiving parochial relief, should not be liable to be removed. England, Scotland, and Ireland alike, for they all paid alike, and bore a great cost—no less than 25,0001. per annum —for the p, yment of their judges. He held in his hand the Act that was passed for increasing the salaries of those judges, in order to diminish the arrears of business, and to facilitate justice. He would read another extract to the Buse as to the state of the Scottish law, and that return showed that in the course of one session there were only eight eases adjudicated on. He (Mr. Wallace) had many facts in his possession, all bearing upon the question, but he would confine himself to the particular matter of his motion. He had obtained, last year, a return, showing the number of eases adjudicated on in England, as also in Wales, in Ireland, and in Scotland. The result of that return he would lay before Hon. Members, and he requested their particular attention to it. 'she return was for the session of 1t44, and the proportion of eases in the different countries was as followed :—To the thirteen millions of population in England there were 154 judges, thus showing one judge to every 100,000 inhabitants; In-land, with a population of eight millions, had 124 judges ; and Scotland, with above three millions, had 94 judges, thus showing one judge to every 27,000 persons. The people of Scotland complained most grievously of the two courts of law, and of their ever-varying judgments. The Scottish bar was now so much reduced both in the number of first-rate, and other counsel, that it was perfectly impossible that persons could get their cases conducted without a very great, indeed an enormous expense.—(Hear, hear.) It appeared that in Scotland the vacations of the Courts of Session exceeded the time of the sessions themselves. One court sat 113 days, and the other only 103 days. By a re turn, which he had moved for in 1840, it appeared that for ten years there had been 813 appeals to the House of Lords. Out of these 598 came from Scotland, or nearly three-fourths of the number of the whole kingdom. The Hon. Member then referred to several documents to show the comparative expen diture of the law courts of Ireland, Scotland, and England, and the business done in each. He contended that the busi. ness in the criminal, as compared with the civil courts, was simple, easy, and disisosed of with facility. He next referred to the time devoted to judicial business by the House of Lords, which, he said, did not average five hours a day. Then with respect to the Court of Quarter Sessions, he would beg leave to read a short statement upon that subject. Having done so, he then went on to say, that the reason he had brought this question forward was, because he had hitherto entirely failed in inducing the Government to give them a better system of jurisprudence. All over Scotland criminals were brought up time after time, and for a series of slight offences might be convicted and sentenced to transportation. In England there was a frequent opportunity of trying prisoners, but in Scotland, they had the old jog-trot system of holding an assize once in six months. They had wisely legislated for England and Ireland in this respect, for prisoners were tried at periods near to the time when their offence' had been committed, and they had, therefore, a great advantage over Scotland towards the repression of crime. During the sitting of the Court of Session, and then only, pri soners were tried once a week in Edinburgh. Why was not that. system adopted over the whole of Scotland? But, in stead of this, persons were kept in prison who might be inno cent, for four or five months, and this was so because the con venience of the judges was consulted rather than the proper administration of the law. He did submit that this was a state of things which ought not to be suffered to continue. There was great inconvenience to the inhabitants of Scot land generally, under the present mode of proceeding, He believed that nothing could be more injurious to the morals of the people of Scotland, and to their right to have justice fairly administered, than the present system. With respect tot he penitentiary system, that was found to be an entire failure. *hen the criminals were discharged they returned to their old habits; and he was satisfied that if the House adopted his recommendation, it would remedy the evils. If the proposal he had suggested met with the approbation of the House, there would be a great improvement in the general jurisdiction of the courts of Scotland. The Honourable Member con eluded by making the motion of which he had given notice:—" To bring before the House the amount of business done yearly by the Court of Session, and the nature and extent of the duties of the judges composing that Court; and to ask leave to bring in a Bill to repeal so much of the Act I William IV., c. 69, as provides that there shall be thir teen judges in the said court ; and to extend the jurisdiction of the stipendiary county judges, called sheriffs, by giving them the power of awarding the punishment of transportation, in the event of the judges in the Court of Session being reduced below the number of thirteen." The LORD ADVOCATE objected to the motion. The Hon. Member had not made out any case for any alteration of the constitution of any of the Scotch Courts. In 1840 the Hon. Member had made a proposition very similar to this. At that, time an investigation had taken place. That investigation had been full and ample, and a hat was the result? It had then been decided, not that there should be a reduction of the num.. her of the judges, but that the business should be so divided, that each case should obtain more of the time of each of those judges. Many of those views which the Hon. Gentleman entertained at the time that investiga tion took place, he seemed now not to have taken. One of the two inner chambers of the court—those courts of appeal which reviewed the adjudication of causes before single judges—has before it an excess of business. At the date of the Commis sion in 1840 the business of those courts was less than it had been for some years before. It continued to be much smaller than it had been up to 1842, and during that and the following year it gradually increased; but he believed no inconvenience had arisen from this circumstance. or to affect the result of the investigation of the Committee in 1842. It should not be sup posed that because a greater quantity of business is at times performed in one court than another, that that court was inef ficient or useless. Still less should it be supposed that because a less number of cases was heard in one court than another, that Court was idle. A combination of circumstances some times threw a greater quantity of business into one court than another. In one of the divisional courts of Scotland there was at that moment a most fortunate combination of talent and legal knowledge.—( Hear, hear.) It was not wonderful, therefore, that such a number of causes were brought there. If two courts were wanting in 1840, which it was clear were required at that time, surely they could not in 1845 dispense with one of them. It frequently happened that causes of greater intricacy were brought into one of the courts—the hearing of those causes was more protracted—and occupied a greater length of time. It would, therefore, be seen that the number of causes was a most fallacious test. But even with respect to the number to which the Hon. Member had so pointedly alluded, let him, instead of considering the mere quantity, look to the description of those causes. Now, those gentlemen who reported in the law courts, reported only those cases which were in some points of view remarkable, and deserving notice. He would read for the House, from an official return, the record of these causes that had been tried in the two courts. In the first division of the court in the year I&12, 108 causes had been reported. In the second 158. In the fi. st division, in 1834 (the year ending Nov. 4), there had been 98 causes tried; in the second 111. The judges of both courts were almost continually occupied between the circuits and what was done in the ordinary courts and in the chambers. The whole period intervening between the rising of one session and the sitting of another, was in this manner occupied. The Hon. Member proposed to do away with the circuits of the supreme judges, and to vest in the sheriffs the power of passing sentence of transportation. He thought that this would be an unwise and unsatisfactory measure. At present those who were sent to be tried before the circuit courts had their cases previously anxiously investigated. If they gave to sheriffs this power, what would ensue? There were thirty-one sheriffs, each of whom might arrive at a different decision. At all events, it was quite clear that with such a number there could be nothing like uniformity in the punishment, than which nothing could be more desirable. Here were thirty.one separate discretions, in addition to the judges; and, in short, he did not know of any course that would be mere likely to cast a blot upon their criminal jurisprudence. At present no man was tried subject to transportation without being defended by counsel. In the High Court of Justiciary every man was defended by counsel. If he asked for counsel, the request was at once con ceded, and he got any counsel, he chose to seek. If it were a serious charge, no counsel at the bar would refuse his assist ance, be the situation of the accused never so odious. One case of this nature, in which counsel had been asked—they must be all familiar with it—the case of Burke and Hare. The present Lords Moocrieff, Jeffreys, Robinson, and Cockburn, lent their assistance.—( Hear, hear.) After some further ob servations the Noble Lord concluded by saying that without a case of great necessity, which the Hon. Member had not made out, his proposition could not be maintained, and he therefore felt bound to oppose it. Mr. FOX M A ULE said, that whatever opinion they might entertain as to the merits of the question before the House, they must all admire the ability, good temper, and moderation with which his Hon. Friend had introduced it. He felt hound to say that he did not agree with him—( Hear, hear)—and en tirely agreed with the Noble and Learned Lord that it would be unwise to give the inferior courts greater jurisdiction than they had at present. Such being the case, he could not assent to this motion. But it was possible that eircurnstances might arise to bring this matter under the notice of the Government, and if such circumstances did present themselves means might be devised by which the business of the Court of Session might be so regulated that parties coming to that court might be redressed. He would not say what means ; but perhaps one of the most obvious was to give parties coming to that court the power of choosing their own courts. Should this means be devised, he believed it would be sufficient for the purpose; but, if not, there was little doubt but that other means would present themselves of obviating the difficulty. Air. WALLACE, in reply, said that he understood that the opinion of the Lord Advocate was, that young persons who had committed an offence should go on until their tendency to offence was nurtured .into habit.—(" No, no," from the Treasury Benches.) Either such must be the ease, or else the offences which were daily committed must be stopped. What was the course pursued ? Young persons were seldom brought before the inferior courts. They were first subjected to the jurisdiction of magistrates, then of the sheriffs, and then of the Court of Session. There was no power that could iudict the punishment of transportation below the Court of Session. Now, it was well known that persons were frequently committed, respecting whom it was not known whether they were subject to the penalty of transportation or not, and no fitting adjudication of their case could be made. The Hon. Member for Perth had passed a Bill to remedy some of the defects of which he (Mr. Wallace) complained. But he believed that it was the opinion of all Scotland that that measure was a perfect failure, or if not a perfect failure, yet ris nearly so as possible. It did not, at any rate, obviate the evil of which he (Mr. Wallace) complained. The real question was, whether prisoners liable to transportation should be tried once in six months, as was the system now followed in Scotland, er whether they should, as he desired, be brought to trial once in every ten days or a fortnight. The judges complained that their time was so occupied by reading papers that they had no sufficient oppor tunity of fulfilling their public duty. Now he (Mr. Wallace) wished that no papers should be read by the judges. If the judges were so oppressed, and had their duties to perform, he would put the Jurisdiction Act in force. He believed that the judges acted on something the same principle as the Board of Trade. They were fonder of reading those papers at home than of doing their duty in the public courts. He had been led to believe that the custom of the Board of Trade was for its several members to take the papers to their own houses, and, after considering them there, to give their decision, when they assembled at the office. Now, in his (Mr. Wallace's) opinion, it was perfectly absurd to go on to a certain position, then submit the papers to a judge, for him to put in his pocket, to consider at his leisure at home. The Lord Advo cate had said that a remedy for these defects would be to allow the people to choose their own courts. But, for his part, he believed that the true remedy would be to allow the people to choose their own judges, rather than their own courts. It was his belief that if the Lord Chief Justice Clerk, by any accident were to be removed to any other Court, he would have as little business to transact as he had now. He was aware that he was using strong language, but he believed the facts of the case would justify the use of such language ; and he hoped, at least, that the discussion of the matter in that House would do some good. In the face of the opposition which he had experienced, he felt it would not be wise to pro ceed, and therefore he should withdraw his motion ; but he believed that the admonition to the judges would be of service, and he should consequently have the less regret in withdraw ing his motion.. CONDITION OF LIBERATED NEGROES. Sir R. H. INGLIS said that his object in calling the atten tion of the House to the motion of which he had given notice, vsus sireely one cf 1r! ‘ , fir t 9 thr. rerfons whnrrt be ‘r..5 de sirous to serve; and he therefore hoped that the terms were such as would avoid any hostile discussion. When negroes were deported from Africa and taken by our vessels, it was generally supposed that they were provided for. From the time the slave trade was abolished by law it was certainly understood that their necessities should be supplied; but the country would be surprised to learn that when a Spanish or Portuguese slaver was taken by one of our vessels, and trans ferred to British protection, their wants were as little cared for as ashen on board of the vessels of their original captors. Nor was the case mush improved when these unfortunate creatures were landed at Sierra Leone. By the narrative of Mr. Pascoe Hill, whom he had not the honour of knowing, but whom every man would honour for his kindness and humanity in accom panying a cargo of those negroes 'in the character of an in terpreter—by that gentleman's statement it appeared that all the horrors of the slave trade were not exaggerated, and that they were such as to surpass the conceptions of the most fervid imagination. These horrors were the same, whether those unfortunate creatures were placed under the command of a British officer, or whether under fa at of an officer of a foreign country, for the horrors appeared to be a part of the system. The physical condition in which these negroes were landed at Sierra Leone was described as being in the extreme frightful. He would not speak cf the wretched fate of those whose deaths were caused by their sufferings— that he would pass over ; his business was with the survivors. Colonel Nichols had stated, that when they were landed from the vessels they looked like ghosts. Those who were landed at the Cape of Good Hope, he believed, were better in appear ance ; their lot was certainly preferable, but still it was bad enough. He did not impute this as a charge against any Government, for in this matter he believed Whig and Tory to be equally blameless. All he wished was, that her Majesty's Government would review the instructions given to the Governor of Sierra Leone, and issued by him on the 10th June last year. By those it appeared that negroes, when liberated and carried to Sierra Leone, were to exercise their discretion whether they would remain in the colony, or whether they would be removed to the West Indies ; but how were they able to exercise any such discretion? In the Pro gresso, the vessel which Mr. Hill had joined as inter preter, out of the whole cargo of 447 not less than 230 were boys. In a dispatch from the Colonial office it was required that every able person who was liberated at Sierra Leone should decide whether they would support themselves or whether they would emigrate to the West Indies. Now, in this direction, no distinction was made of age or sex. The child of six years of age was in the same posi tion as the adult. In the case to which he had alluded the Governor withheld the application of this instruction on his own responsibility, and restricted it to those children who were nine years old. Now, it was a perfect mockery to offer such an alternative to those persons. They were landed naked and destitute on the shores of our colony, ignorant even of every word of the language of their captors. He (Sir Robert Inglis) did not think that he was a wiser man in 1845 than he was in 1842, but he had yet the advantage of experience, and he did not, therefore, feel himself bound to abide by a de cision of the Committee in that year, notwithstanding he had not at that time protested against it. At page 15 of that report Hon. Members would find a provision which recommended that if a liberated negro was able either to maintain himself or could get any relatives or friends to undertake for his maintenance, he was to be at liberty to remain at Sierra Leone ; but if he were without the means of maintaining himself, that then he must of necessity become an emigrant to the West Indies. He was tempted to deny the right of Government thus to en force the departure of those slaves within such a limited period, for they must recollect that when that country took upon itself the carrying of them to Sierra Leone, they promised also not only to protect but to provide for them. He doubted, there fore, how far gentlemen could be said to be at liberty, after en tering into this engagement, to free themselves from the obligation to protect and provide for that population. The expenses of maintaining them at Sierra Leone had been very considerable, and it was for them to consider whether it would be better to retain them on the coast of Africa or to remove them to where labour was more abundant. Admit ting that that cost was 12,0001. a year, or, taking the average at 19,000/., whatever it might be, he (Sir R. H. Inglis) maintained, that up to that moment there had been an excess of income above the expenditure of the colonies. The pro clamation to which he had already so often referred, had the authority of the King of England, and he held therefore that it was not enough to say that they (the slaves) were a burden on the local resources of the colonies. They were pledged to France, to the world, and to the whole negro race to maintain and protect them. Much had been said against the state of Sierra Leone, but if the House looked to the report of the Committee he had quoted from, and which had before it evidence of a mixed character '—they would find that a large proportion of persons in that colony were liberally educated, more so, indeed, than in any other of the dependencies of this country. The report stated, that one-fifth of the inhabitants were in course of education. If that were so, surely the founders and sup porters of Sierra Leone were entitled to credit for their ex ertions. They at least were not responsible for the misma nagement of the affairs of the country. One of his ob jections to the course which Government had pursued was, that they had interfered with this system of things.—( Hear.) in the month of July in last year a Government agent had gene throughout the schools, and he would quote from a letter, written by an individual, detailing the effect produced by his interference. The agent had required many of the children to emigrate to the West Indies, or to be put out among the cultivators of the country. No less than 100 boys and girls had been induced, through misrepresentation of the Government agent, to leave the schools of education, and to embark for Jamaica. He would not say one word which would imply the slightest objection to free ingress into the West Indies, but he most certainly ob jected that, in the plan proposed by Government, they were giving the negroes a semblance of free-will, knowing well that they could not exercise it. They were, as Dr. Johnson said, throwing them out of the window, and recommend ing them, at the same time, not to fall on the ground. They were in this manner depriving Africa itself of one of the means of improving its advantages. He found, in a letter addressed by the Governor of Sierra Leone to Lord Stanley, in April, 1844, that such were the facilities for leav ing the colony, that a very large number of the black popula tion were quitting for other parts of the country. He would always speak with respect of the labours of the Wesleyan Missions, but he must also speak of the good done by the Missions of the Church of England. In that colony alone they had no less than ten pastors, two of whom, he (Sir R. H. Inglis) had the honour of knowing. Those were circumstances which would benefit to the utmost degree the colony and those per sons who were brought from the interior of Africa and liberated there. He (Sir R. H. Inglis) had no wish to prevent emigration to the West Indies, but he certainly desired that her Majesty's Government should continue the same policy that had been pursued by their predecessors, and for a time by them selves. if they gave to the black population a bona fide free dom of will, and if then they chose to leave for the West Indies or for other places, he should not desire to deter them. When the Noble Lord at the head of the Colonial department at first undertook the revision of the policy of his predecessors, he required that the proportion of the sexes in Sierra Leone should be no less than one-third of the female to two-thirds of the male population. Now, it could not be contended that it was impossible to preserve that proportion, for during the last few years the population in Sierra Leone amounted to about 20,000 males and about 17,000 females. He had stated, in the commencement of the observations which he had addressed to that House, and it was hardly necessary for him to reiterate it, that he bore no ill-will to the Legislature for their course of policy upon this subject. But he knew the sufferings that had accrued in consequence of this act of theirs, and he could not conceal from himself that it might be productive of evil consequences in their relations with other Powers. He would recommend the Government to study the interests of their colonies in the first instance, and not to refrain from doing that which was right, because some of their neighbours might think it was wrong. Yet, at the same time, they should regulate their conduct so as to give no occasion of offence to other powers. They had seen with what a jealous eye France looked upon the proceedings of England—how they watched the question of the right of search, and every thing connected with the culture of sugar, and with the ame lioration of the condition of th at section of their fellow-men, who were known as slaves. In the last report that had reached them of the proceedings' in the Brazilian Cortes, it was distinctly stated that their right to introduce negroes into America remained untouched. It was evident therefore, from what he had stated, and from many facts in his possession, but with which he would not then trouble the House, that there was too much reason to believe that something very like a slave trade was peculiar to the east coast of Africa in supplying the Mauritius. Among the correspondence for which he had moved there was an ordonnance relating to the Mauritius, and he had no reason to suppose that it would be withheld by the Government. There was reference made to a regular importation of negroes into the Mauritius ; and in the Slave Trade Papers of 1843 they would find a long account of the mode in which slaves had been taken from the east coast of Africa to supply that colony. There was a somewhat ludicrous phrase in the instructions emanating from the agency-house which authorized this slave traffic. They (the captors) were to pre-dispose and to captivate the mind of the negro—they were to paint in glowing colours the landscape of that island they were to expatiate upon the happiness and comfort which there awaited him. All the evils which took place upon the west coast of Africa occurred in every part from which there was an emigration of the labourers. Th e ki n g s h a d a property i n their subj ec t s , and when labou re r s were wan t e d to em i gra t e , if the kin gs could not find a sufficient number of their own subjects to dispose of, they made incursions into the lands of their neigh bours, and carried off their population to supply the deficiency. It was true that this statement did not apply to Sierra Leone, to which the first part of his motion referred, but it did apply to the Mauritius, which was the object of the second part. Now he would not ask the Government to follow the example of their predecessors, but to follow their own example. Their predecessors the Marquis of N or manby and L or d J o h n Russell had spoken distin c tly on t h e su bj ec t : " th at no pre caution could be taken which would prevent the misery and infamy of the slave trade from being attached to the system of emigration." His Right. Hon. Friend at the head of the Go vernment had expressed himself in similar terms. For his own part, he (Sir Robert Inglis) was not prepared to say that the experiment should not be made, if it were made under circumstances which would afford a probability of suc cess. But they should sacrifice no principle in the attempt. They should not keep the word of good faith to the ear and break it to the heart. He was sensible that in the great expe riment for which England paid 20,000,0001., it was said that it would take away from the West Indians only the power of coercion—that the bodies of the labourers would remain, and that the planters would only have to supply in wages the place of the coercion which was taken away from them ; but there was no doubt entertained of the adequacy of negro labour in the West Indies to compensate for the aboliti on o f s l avery. He believed that the climate of the West Indies was a d m i rably fitted to the African race ; but he was not prepared to weigh the interest of the West Indies against the blood of the Africans, nor did he think they were bound to do evil that good might come.—( Hear, hear.) They were bound, both as indi viduals and as a nation, to secure for those persons for whom they had made so much exertion and sacrifice, for forty years, a protection from the miseries from which it had been the object of this country to rescue their race. He concluded by moving for the returns set forth in his notice; that was, for dispatches and other papers relating to Sierra Leone and the Mauritius. Mr. HOPE rose, amidst loud cries of " Order, order," and " Who seconds?" H e sa id that he rose t o second the motion. —(Laughter.) He assured his Right Ho n . F r i en d (S i r R. Inglis)e rs t f h or at h w e ho fe m lt an iequifoaoll. Friend's sy mpat hi es had been y deep interest i n t h e un f ortunate awakened. But he must protest against som e o f t h e l anguage used by his Hon. Friend. He must deny th a t th e Govern mentwould weigh the interests of the West Indians against the blood of the African ; or that they would; do evil that good might come. The very reverse was the course pursued by the Government, and instead of breaking faith with the liberated Africans, the endeavours of the Go vernment had been to promote their substantial good. As early as 1807 there was a provision enacted by statute for the pro tection of negroes liberated from slave ships, and several alte rations and improvements had since taken place from time to time. His Hon. Friend had commented on the proclamation of the Governor in such a way as to leave the impression that when those unfortunate persons were landed at Sierra Leone from the slave-ships, in a state of debility and emaciation, they were required to make their option whether they would emi grate to the West Indies or support themselves in Sierra Leone' by their own labour, before they had recovered theirstrength. —( The Hon. Gentleman then read the proclamation.) He contended that his Hon. Friend was not justified in Sheanter eretation which he had put upon it. The object ottbe Proclama tion was only to warn the negroes that they must look to their own exertions, bet it did not hind the Government from aiding them, Until they Were in a condition to sustain themselves ' • and they were alway s a ll owe d t i me to recover their strength before they were required to work for Mr. MANGLES said the speech of the Hon. Gentleman would lead one to suppose that he could hardly have heard the remarks made by the Hon. Member for Gateshead. The Hon. Alember, instead of opposing the motion, spoke in the highest terms of commendation of the tone and manner in which the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for the Univer sity of Oxford, had brought the subject before the House. The Hon. Member, moreover, had expressed his earnest wish that the Government might succeed in their present policy, and he (Mr. Wortley) could hardly understand how the Hon. Member for the West Riding could object to the spirit or mode of delivery of the Hen. Member's speech. He thought they might discover the interference of the Church Missionary Society in this motion. He had himself been a member of that Society for some years, and he had found that, generally, they had done much good. There were, however, occasions on which he thought they exhibited an undue degree of inter ference. Sir T. D. ACKLAND next addressed the House. We under stood him warmly to defend the proceedings of the Church Missionary Society, with which he was proud to be connected. Adverting to the Niger expedition, he contended that, although it had been attended with mi sfortune, yet it had done more to advance the interests of this country in Africa than had been before accomplished in centuries, and he believed that great benefits would yet result from it. Although the sacrifice of life was very great, yet, in the same year of the expedition, an equal mortality occurred in a regiment stationed in the West Indies. This country Was much indebted to the exertions of his lamented friend, Sir Thomas Buxton, whom God had been pleased so recently to remove ; and be thought that no man in that House would withhold the meed of praise to which that great man was entitled. With respect to the motion imme diately before the House, he would say that he concurred in the recommendation in the report on this subject, to make free labour, obtained from the other side of the Atlantic, available in the West Indies. He never could understand why the planter, after the use of slave labour was denied him, should not be assisted in obtaining the u se o f f ree l a b our . He bought, with his Hon. Friend the Member for the West Riding of Yorshire, that this was only a question of r egulation. In conclusion, he expressed the satisfaction which he felt at the dained two or three natives of Africa. b ap e poi wu nt a m la e i nt, to in fin S d ier t r b a at Le t o b n e e, B o is f b m op en of of c Lo o o l d o o u o r t b o ad offi la c te el y a o ad r. a b t ou th rs at bSadocie ex tended,tybad notwithstanding Mr. PLUMPTRE said he had long been a member o f th e Church created Missionary greas Sac blessings,iety, ding the taunt of the Hon. Member oppo site, with respect to undue interfe rence. Mr. MANGLES explained. He had t he greatest respect for the labours of the Church Missio na r y Society. and w wherever r he ev e believedr their tlha After a few words from Mr. HOPE in explanation, and Sir It. brcus in reply, the motion was agreed to, themselves.—( Hear.) Now, his Hon. Friend had stated that children of nine years of age were required to emigrate to the West Indies. That was not the case. Children of nine years of age were retained in Sierra Leone in the schools until they were twelve years old; and then, if they chose to emigrate — and every one who knew the African race would know that in those three years they would be sufficiently matured to be allowed an opinion. And then the persons who took them out were bound to send them regularly to the schools, and to have them taken to the church on Sundays. The Hon. Gentlemen read several extracts from the proceedings of the Church Missionary Society, of which his Hon. Friend (Sir R. H. Inglis) was a leading member, to show that the education of the young negroes in Jamaica was in a most fa vourable state. The adults who did not choose to emigrate obtained employment amongst the agriculturists at Sierra Leone ; but their condition was very inferior to that of their free brethren in Jamaica. (Hear. ) The Hon. and Learned Member then said he would call the attention of the House to certain Government returns and other papers and letters issued in the year 1843, and having read extracts from them, he contended that they proved be yond all doubt that nothing could exceed the rapidity with which education had advanced in Trinidad. By the same papers he conceived it was quite apparent that emigration to the West Indies from Sierra Leone had gone on successfully and should be encouraged; for the returns before him proved that in Jamaica there was a very large preponderance of females over males ; that in Dominica it was the same ; in Trinidad the same ; and in Java, at George Town, the same facts ap plied to the relative numbers of the male and female population. The Honourable Member opposite had made allusion to the ordonnance that had been issued by the Govern ment upon the subject in regard to the Mauritius ; but he (Mr. Hope) believed that a copy of that ordennance had been received here this morning, and therefore he had no means of ascertaining whether it had been enforced or not. The Hon. Member concluded by saying, it was his opinion that the people of the West Indies should be educated. (The above is but an imperfect outline of what the Hon. Member said, for, owing to his having stood, all the time he was speaking, with his back to the gallery, and speaking in a low tone, only a word or two he said in each sentence could be heard.) Mr. AG LIONBY said it would be impossible for him to follow the Hon. Member, the Under Secretary, in all the statements he had read, or to have had any of the information to which the Hon. Member had access ; but he was glad that those papers had been produced and read, because they con veyed information important not only to the best interests of humanity, but also to the interests of the inhabitants of the West Indies. He was one of those who had objected to the House granting any loan or grant for the purpose of eman cipating slaves, for he (lid not think such ought to have been necessary ; and he would not have alluded to it, or to those papers at all, but for what the Under Secretary had said upon the subject. With regard to what the Hon. Member had said about emigration from Sierra Leone, he (Mr. Aglionby) would be glad to hear a fuller statement upon that subject ; but whether the Hon. Member should give it or not, be (Mr. Aglionby) begged to say that there was a strong feeling abroad that the missionaries to Sierra Leone and other countries had done much mischief. As to the missionaries to New Zealand, that had proved most injurious, for it bad produced persecution without end, had materially retarded civilisation in that country, and created great excitement amongst the abori gines. He mentioned this subject now with a view to calling attention to it, and to hope that some inquiry would be made into the principle upon which those Missionary Societies were founded. He had beard of cir cular letters being sent to Members of Parliament, having for their object to deter those gentlemen from taking any part against that Society's proceedings in regard to the West Indies. He then read a copy of the circular, and said his ob • ject in doing so was, to show Hon. Members how misled they had been in reference to those Church Missionary Societies.—( Hear.) Mr. HOPE said a few words in explanation. Lord SANDON said he conceived that the Honourable Member opposite had introduced a matter into the question before the House, which had no relevancy whatever to it, namely, the Church Missionary Society; and the Hon. Member appeared so anxious to do it, that he had gone off at half-cock, on a hair-trigger.--(Laughter.) He would beg to assure the Hon. Member that the Church Missionary Society must have been misrepresented, for that body did not at all interfere in the manner described with the natives of those places. The Noble Lord concluded with expressing a hope that the motion of the Right Hon. Member for the University of Oxford would be acceded to by the Government. Mr. HUTT, having been a member of the Committee ap pointed to inquire into the subject of negro emancipation, could not avoid the opportunity of saying a .few words on that occasion. He had listened with great attention to the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, as well as to one or two state ments made by the Under-Secretary for the Colonies, but it appeared to him there had been no facts brought forward which had not been previously considered by the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies. The Government had fol lowed out the recommendations made in the report of the Committee alluded to ; and though he did not usually support their views, he felt bound to do so on that occasion. The policy they were now pursuing was an exceeding wise one, and he only re gretted it had not been ad, pted earlier. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated his views with considerable moderation and firmness, and he wished some Hon. Gentleman who possessed his opinions would follow his example. It certainly appeared to him that many of the statements brought forward by the parties to whom he referred, and he might allude to the Noble Lord the Secretary himself, were wanting in the feeling of moderation and temper evinced by the Right Hon. Bert. For his own part he was conscious, if the Government would only pursue the course they had already so successfully commenced, they would improve the condition of the colonies, and advance the social compact of the emancipated Africans. They owed the West Indies a heavy debt, and the only means of im proving their condition was for the Government to proceed steadily forward in their present course, and then they would have the additional satisfaction of throwing open to the British manufacturer an extended colonial market. If they did this he was persuaded that the dream of Wilberforce, Clarkson, and other philanthropists, would ere long be realised. By affording ample opportunities for emigration to the West Indies, the system of slavery which had hitherto resisted all their attacks in the United States, Mexico and the Brazils, would be entirely overthrown. He was satisfied of this, because the course he recommended would afford the only means to the colonists of underselling the States he had mentioned. They would thus put down African slavery without collision or vio lence with any other power, and all this would undoubtedly be accomplished if the Government were disposed honestly and boldly to carry out their present course. They had increased the price of colonial sugar, and thereby given an impetus to labour, while the course pursued on the other hand was only calculated to encourage the exhibitions made at Exeter Hall. He hoped, ;therefore, the Government would mai n t a i n th e i r present policy, and they might rely on his strenuous and cor dial support. Mr. STUART WORTLEY could see nothing in the motion of the Right Honourable Gentleman the Mem ber for the University of Oxford, to justify the rhapsody of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down against slavery. What connexion there was between the speech of his Right Hon. Friend and Exeter-hall, he was quite at a loss to dis cover. At all events, any one who had listened to the speech of his Right Hon. Friend, would agree with him that no ob servation which fell from his lips justified the attack which had been made upon that place by the Hon. Member who had last addressed the House. It appeared to him that the Hon. Gen tleman had misinterpreted the observations of his Right Hon. Friend, the Member for the University of Oxford. The Honourable Gentleman seemed to think that the mo tion was brought forward with the view of per petuating some of the objectionable proceedings which had taken place in the West Indies. 1\ ow, he did not understand that his Hon. Friend made use of any such argu ment to justify his motion. But this he understood, that his Hon. Friend brought it forward because he thought a change had been introduced into the regulations relating to the re moval of the negro population from one place to another which was not consistent with justice. His Hon. Friend was, there fore, perfectly justified in proceeding with his motion, and he did not think there had been any very serious objection urged against it. It was desired upon all hands that those regulations should be made as effective as possible, so long as they remained in force. The question as to whether they should be continued was another matter. But if they were to give the African the right of exercising option, it behoved the House to see that such regulations were established as would seeure its exercise. What was the object of his Hon. Friend's motion ? Why, his Hon. Friend moved for papers which had certainly introduced a change in the regulations respecting this option ; and no one could be sorry that he had brought his motion forward ; for if these documents, when produced, should not prove satisfac tory, they would have an opportunity of placing the option on firm ground. What was the real state of the case with respect to these documents P So long ago as the year 1841, a dispatch from Lord John Russell, who was then Secretary of State for the Colonies, announced that the time had arrived for assisting the emigration of negrocs to the West Indies ; and therefore the negro must support himself, either by removing to the in terior where his labour might be made available, or, taking advantage of the other alternative, of emigrating to the West India colonies. It was required by the same dispatch, that the negro should pronounce his option within six weeks after he had obtained his freedom ; but this period of time being considered too long it was subsequently reduced to three weeks. If at the expiration of this time the negro failed to make up his mind, his allowance was discontinued. Now it was impossible to suppose that a negro, immediately after his deliverance from the slave ship, could be in a condition to sup port himself in the colony where he obtained his freedom, or to emigrate to any distant part of the world ; and he did think that some additional assistance ought to be afforded to the Africans. With regard to the motion, he would say but one word. Its object appeared to be to ascertain if the regulations relating to the removal of negroes was fairly and properly carried out. COLONY OF HONG-KONG. Dr. BOWRING said he was about to ask for some informa tion from her Majesty's Government, which was well entitled to the attention of the House—he referred to s woe proceedings which had taken place in Hong-Kong, and although he knew it was difficult to find a person to manage their interests in China as they were managed by Sir H. Pottinger, whose bril liant administration exposed his successor to the danger of a disadvantageous contrast ; it was at the same time the universal wish that all the proceedings in that quarter should be charac terised by prudence and wisdom. It was of the utmost im portance that no impression unfavourable to the British repu tation should be made on the minds of the residents. A posi tion had been taken up by the Governor in Council, from which he was obliged to retire. He referred toan ordinance of the 21st Aug., 1t44, which, however, appeared not to be promulgated till two months after date, so that the Governor in Council had time to consider its effect. It stated that, for the purpose of secur ing order and tranquillity in Hong-Kong anti its dependencies, the ordinance was published, but the immediate effect of it was to create confusion, and to lead to an outbreak. It not only referred to Hong- Kong but to its dependencies ; but is hat the dependencies of Hong-Kong were he did not know. The ordi nance stated that all the inhabitants, of the age of twenty-eight and upwards, were to appear at the registrar's office, where the following particulars were exacted from them, which, if even bearable by the English residents there, would be perfectly intolerable and impossible of execution to those educated in oriental ideas. They were required to eeme to the regis trar-general's office, where the age, and birth, and place of residence of every person were to be registered. 'I hey were to state the date of their arrival, what the circumstances of their family were, and those of their connexion, with places of red ' dense, what their e - nployment was, ss hether they were male or fena'e, married or single. What would be the feelings of per sons in England if they were subjected to such an inquisition, and if they would be indignant at it, he askei them to con sider the feelings of persons accustomed to oriental habits. When, some year. ago, Mehemet Ali attempted to get at the population of Cairo, be was every where met with so much opposition, that he was obliged to give up the attempt. If the difficulties to be met with in Egypt were so great, they would be still greater in Hong-Kong. The consequences of this ordinance was, that 3,000 of the inhabitants left the colony. The Bazaar was in a state of great commotion. All public works were suspended, and the markets of ic toria Town were deserted. Every head man was re sponsible for every coolie he had under him, and arbitrary punishment might be inflicted on any person who came to the colony and did not report himself within twenty-four hours. Every overseer was also responsi ble for the inhabitants of the village in which he resided. Any person who had a property of not less than ten dollars per month had to pay one dollar for registration. It was no wonder then that the appearance of such a document should have created a great sensation in the colony. Meetings of the com mercial men were held on the subject, resolutions were passed, and a remonstrance was made to the Governor in Council, who stated, in a second answer which he made, that he was surprised at the repetition of the statements contained in the first letter, which had already met with the strong reprobation of the Governor in Council, and the Governor in Council would in future abstain from paying the smallest attention to their re presentations. Now he would ask whether it was right that such a state of things should be continued ? He thought that it ought to be rectified at once, that such a stigma might not rest on the English character. The Hon. and Learned Member concluded by making the motion of which he had given notice. Mr. G. W. HOPE opposed, th e mot i on on the ground that the Government had not received any communication on the subject. Sir J. STAUNTON opposed the motion on the ground of its being premature. Dr. BOWRING said he did not understand that it was intended to refuse the ultimate production of the docu ments for which he had moved. He would, for the present, withdraw the motion, reserving to himself the right to rein troduce it when all the documents were in the hands of the Government. The motion was then withdrawn. MEDICAL REFORM BILL. Colonel WOOD "presented a petition from medical practi tioners at Kensington, preying for some summary mode of convicting unlicensed practitioners; also complaining that the appointment of a Council of Health, without including a single representative of the general practitioners, was most unjust. On rising to move for leave to bring in a Bill for the better regulation of medical practice throughout the United Kingdom, Sir J. GRAHAM said he hoped that before he sat down he should convince his Honourable Friend, who had just presented a petition, that that petition had no reference to the Bill immediately under consideration. He should not feel it his duty to make any elaborate statement with reference to the measure; but, considering the great importance of the subject, and the excited state of public feeling, he would at once candidly bring under the consideration of the House and the public, the alterations which he proposed to make in the Bill introduced last session. The House would remember that when he introduced the Bill towards the close of last session, he stated that, considering the great public interests involved in the measure which he proposed, and the manner in which it affected both the public and one of the most useful and learned professions, hasty legislation would be most imprudent, and that he should act most fairly towards the pro fession, and best consult the interests of the public, by laying, at the close of the session, the precise measure which he proposed on the table of the House, for the purpose of securing that it would undergo general discussion. The fair ness of that course could not, he thought, be denied even by those who were opposed to the measure, and its usefulness was equally evident. The measure had been amply discussed, and he was now about to state shortly to the House what had been the result of the discussion, as regarded the amendment of the measure which it was his duty to pro pose. He would now briefly recapitulate the leading objects of the measure—objects which would, he thought, form the basis of any measure which might be introduced on that subject. The first object of the measure to which he adhered was the establishment in thin country of a council of health, which should exercise general superintendence and control over me dical and surgical education throughout the United King dom, to consist of a board in the metropolis, of easy, and therefore, as he thought, of useful access to the Execu tive Government, on all those great questions affecting the health of the people which must, from time to time, necessarily arise and claim serious consideration. His object was, that in cases of sudden epidemic, and with respect to measures which it might be necessary to adopt on the authority of the Executive Government, with reference to the health of large cities, and generally in all cases affecting the public health, a council, easy of access, should exist, which might be consulted by the Executive Government of the country. That was the first object. The second object which he had in view was to secure that all medical practitioners should have equal facilities of practice throughout the United Kingdom ; and also, that with that equality, as regarded prac tice, there should be, on behalf of the public, security for the possession on the part of practitioners of an equality of attainments. The third object was, that those at tainments being secured by examination, and the standard being kept uniform, there should be a registration which should give to the public notice that the practitioners so registered, having undergone examination, had come up to the required standard; and that notoriety being in possession of the public, he proposed that public medical offices, for the encouragement of medical practitioners, should be given only to such medical practitioners as had been duly registered, and that by law no title to practice should be given to those who had not undergone the examination. This was a short recapitulation of the leading objects of the measure. Such were the objects secured by the measure which he had the honour of introducing at the close of last session. To those objects he adhered, and those objects would, he believed, be attained by the Bill which he now asked permission to introduce. Having recapitulated the leading objects of the measure, it now became him to state shortly in detail the alterations which he proposed to in troduce into the measure. Last session he ventured to pro pose the entire repeal of the statute of Henry VIII., which gave to members of the Royal College of Physicians and surgeons the exclusive right of practising in the metropolis and within seven miles round. On the present occasion he did not propose the entire repeal of that statute, but he proposed its repeal absolutely and entirely with reference to all practi tioners registered under the Bill. He proposed, however, to insert a clause exempting the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge from the operation of the Bill.—( Hear, hear, from some Hon. Members on the Opposition benches.) lie thought the Hon. Gentlemen did not exactly understand the effect of that exemption. The effect of it would be to exclude the physicians obtaining their degree at Oxford or Cambridge from the advantage of practising in the metropolis and within seven miles round, unless they became con senting parties to, and came within the operation of the Act. Oxford and Cambridge were at present somewhat jealous of the measure ; they did not, as at present advised, consent to come under the operation of the Act. He pro posed, then, to insert a clause, the effect of which would be to leave those universities in the full enjoyment of the privilege of granting degrees to medical men, and conferring on them the right of practising in all parts of England and Wales, ex cept the metropolis and seven miles round. He hoped, how. ever, that before the Bill went into Committee, an arrange ment might be made between those two learned bodies and the Metropolitan College of Physicians, which would supersede the necessity for this exempting clause. The arrangement would, he expected, be this, that assessors should go down from the body of physicians in London to Cambridge and Oxford, and that :the same diploma which, being granted by the university, gave the right of practice elsewhere, should, by this arrangement, also confer the right of practice else where. He should then propose the withdrawment of the ex empting clause in Committee; an arrangement being made with respect to the uninesities of Oxford and Cambridge similar to the arrangement with the other learned bodies of Scotland and Ireland. He now came to the question more immediately raised on the petition presented by his Hon. and Gallant Friend, namely, the question of the repeal of the Apothecaries' Act. .Now he had come to the opinion that it would not be expedient to propose the total repeal of the Apothecaries' Act.—(Hear, hear.) It was his intention to propose to the House to repeal the Apothecaries' Act only so far as the parties registered under his Bill were concerned. The effect of this partial repeal of the Act would be this. Complaints were made against his Bill of last session that he provided by it no sufficient security against empirical practice, and that, not satisfied with this, he in addi tion proposed to remove all the existing penalties against such practice. He did not attach much value to these penalties, but still the effect of this partial repeal of the Apothecaries' Act would be this, that it left these penalties untouched in the entire form in which they at present existed. He should also propose an additional security, one which he thought was quite justifiable and consistent with sound principle. He should propose that no person, not possessing the proper qualification, and not coming up to the requisite standard, should venture to practise medicine without subjecting himself always to the risk of the criminal prosecution to which any one was still liable by the general operation of the law for pretend ing to be that which he was not. He could not see why an attempt to carry such an enactment should be objected to. He would here mention that this system of a registration of medical practitioner s h a d b een attempted in the states, and had been attended with very goodeffect. United B this Bill he proposed that any person who .shoioil physician, sur geon, or By himself, or assume the title or designation geon, apothecary, or doctor, or any other fd r title recognised by this Bill, should be liable to prosecution. But, in reference to this part of the measure, perhaps the best course would be to read this clause of the Bill to the House. It was this : " Every unregistered person w h o should falsely pretend to be, or take oruse any f name, or title of physician , doctor, bachelor, the faculty of medicine, or surgeon, or licentiate of medi c i ne, or apothecary, or any other name or title recognised as that of a medical or surgical practitioner, should be guilty of a mis demeanor, and be punishable by such fine or imprisonment, or both, as the court before which he should be convicted should award," He had thought it necessary to give to the public this protection against empirical practice of the science of medicine. He should propose, also, to repeal a portion of the Apothecaries Act, referring to the office of examiners for medical qualifications; by the Bill of last session it was made necessary that i n E ng l an d p h ys i c i ans s h ou l d b e the examiners for the degree of licentiates in medicine. At present it was necessary that in England the examiners should be members of the civic guild of the City of London. To this guild admission could now, in point of fact, be obtained by purchase, by inheritance, and by election ; there was no con dition attached to the functions, save that the examiners must belong to this civic guild. Now he proposed that, in future, these examiners should be apothecaries of ten years' standing, or licentiates of medicine for the same time; he anticipated that, after the lapse of ten years, they might be admitted as j Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. DISMISSAL OF MAGISTRATES IN IRELAND. Mr. BELLEW said that he rose to move for the return of which he had given notice, of any correspondence which took place in the years 1842, 1843, and 1844, between the Lord Chancellor of Ireland and the Earl of Lucan, relative to the dismissal of the latter from, and subsequent restoration to, the magistracy ; also for a copy of the Commission appointing the said Earl of Lucan Lord-Lieutenant of the county of Mayo. In making this motion, he (Mr. Bellew) was fully aware that the Howe had been engaged during the last week in the discussion of matters of much more general interest than the business which he had to bring before them. But he did not hesitate to say that none of those matters created a deeper anxiety than that which he was about to sub mit to the House. It was a subject in which the public in this country always took the most lively interest. When last year the misconduct of a police magistrate had been publicly noticed, not twenty-four hours had elapsed before the matter was brought before the House ; and they had the assurance of the Secretary of State for the Home Department that his at tention should be directed to it. When, also, last year the conduct of another magistrate had been brought under consi deration in a court of law—he alluded to the observations which were made in the case of the Queen v. Humphries upon the conduct of the Duke of Marlborough—the Duke of Marlborough was Lord-Lieutenant of the county of Oxford — and it was necessary for the Noble Duke to give suffi cient evidence of his general efficiency as a Ma gistrate in order to prevent his dismissal from the commission. He (Mr. Bellew) wished that there was the same sensitiveness in her Majesty's Government in the case of Lord Lucan. His (Mr. I3ellew's) motion had as a particul ar object to ascertain on what principle the dismissals of magis trates from the commission of the peace in Leland, since Sir Edward Sugden had been clan. CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD RAILWAY. Mr. W. 0. STANLEY asked whether the line of corn munication between this country and Ireland had been agreed upon, and whether it wa) intended that the line of communi cation should be by Holyhead and over the Menai ? Sir ROBERT PEEL said the subject was under the consi deration of the Board of Trade; and in the event of the plan being approved of, the Government would be inclined to make a grant for the purpose of carrying out that object. Mr. W. 0. STANLEY asked whether it was the intention of the Government to bring in a Bill founded upon the report of the Commissioners of Lunacy ? Sir JAMES GRAHAM was understood to say that he had not yet had time to peruse these reports. The Government would give the fullest consideration to the subject. Mr. BANKES moved for a return of all duty paid by per sons acting as auctioneers during the last three years, distin guishing the numbers who have respectively paid the different amounts of duty. Lord PALMERSTON asked when certain papers con nected with slavery would be laid on the table of the House ? Sir ROBERT PEEL said they had been laid on the table last night. —( A laugh. ) Mr. M. PHILIPS put a question, which was not heard, re lative to the sugar duties. Sir R. PEEL said he thought it better to reserve the opinion of the Government for the present on that subject. COURTS OF SESSION (SCOTLAND). Mr. WALLACE said that for the convenience of members of the Government he had brought forward that motion first which he intended to bring on second. The motion of which he had given notice had reference to the Courts in Scotland, and he hoped before he sat down that he should be able to prove from facts that the time had arrived when a regulation of those Courts was not only necessary but practicable. Hon. Members should know that there were in Scotland two Courts of Review. Now in his opinion there was no necessity for two Courts of Review. The Supreme Court of Scotland might be so con.. ducted that the whole of the business might be confided to one Court, without any detriment to the interests of the country. It was evident that since he had agitated this question greater attention had been paid by the judges to the businesa of the Court. In the first division of the Court of Session, in the year 1841-42, the number of cases which had been brought before the first division of session was 204. In the year 1843-44 it was 174, and in the year 1844.45 it was 270. In the second division of the Court of Session, in the year 1842-43, the number of causes was 216 ; in the year 1843-44, the number of causes was 145 ; and in 1844-45, it has diminished down to 82 ; therefore he had no hesitation in saying that that return proved that the people of Scot land, represented by their attorneys, had not such confidence in the legal knowledge and acquirements of the judges of the second division of the Court of Session, as they had in those of the first, inasmuch, as during the last year, while the number of causes in the first division Court amounted to 270, those of the second division Court had diminished to eighty-two. The next document to which he should refer, was a return of the number of causes in the Inner Court and Outer House. A number of causes were brought from the Outer House to the Inner House. The number of causes brought before the Outer House had considerably diminished. In the first division there had been 298 causes brought fotward, in the second only 46. That was an incontestible proof that in the opinion of the in habitants of Scotland, as represented by the solicitors, the second division of the Court cf Session was not an efficient court. The second division had fallen off, in which the Lord Justice Clerk presided. The difference between the Courts was, as he had stated, in the proportion of 270 to 82. An.: , ther return shcsued that 0111 V one-fifth cf the b., 7 found its way from the Outer Court to the Inner. In three.foui the of the present session there had been but nine causes in the Inner Court of Review, and at the end of the session there will scarcely have been more than twelve causes. The sub ject was one which concerned all the people of J D LE, • Ofib e a id ..,er / $, • ing s Pa d hi - 1"1 1 AYernis, Icy its ;e ' et* °f :i he poor- ung Chirr tbe iftil, il) tile r'esse a Al oll' dill a n ' O il be si. r ; ote tO ,g 5, d futile!, fo ca joriti c ' fir o P be r our eol l ler .1 cf g iro' $O , d tbe 011 ,1 0 car ofo ishe ib , l g r li or °r ti t e doi ° 1 r oeP I g e olok nill 11, AP, .so 16 ' 1 ' 4 1 P : o do.- 3 .1 0 o 3 I'b to on ere !S I; 1.1 a. 00 1 11 t; the o d pisis l oge' id ) OC. he , 00' • tO s to • ers 6 Alc aiv t'" , 0 u- di d as el) e, t o f 55c e rod foe l ig P P ; 1 j O $ ofth debt 0 t ) 1 5° Y f a rid o f ler ir ) e li f erf o ole ,d c 60 s tic c ipg e n os ) f ,c) o o h fl° ed 1 Oi ii 3 to te. d 3 0: 40 0 5 10 oE'clorilucpa S ;0 0 e r tr! 1 ,9 , r oir o o t he et o e. , or, oa oth e iellb e rl ; o f r i l° 6 eot 'so° re prie (3 o o l l the be ieg ti bli 6 l „ss th e P foe hathe f t t it l t ta . tht' , 'rcSY" 0 4CS. LW -d RA I Oros . O ~ 0 315 g C O l l ino s, t est ,. 44 , WO r e ' m of It in; ,- c o:0 Pf e Coll i rcil e g. ~,e' sha ms, , v tintektril;t der et. of tort ~sttisfac Tie i t 3 or s 0104 tre 4°l a . ;3103 v 1 01 '0 50, 0 11 e C°., 6 4 If ie13"41 "cieg t . r e4 th re cei" o l ba d ec t .r,•resPOa at e, , tugs' A t 00 t 0 rellor or' e et r' Lea s ' n'' o ,;(l', ai ° occ uP e a, bri roit c o p ut re fer e r e ct d 11 1 0 Atli ) ) 11 IP utl ve rg :401 frolinl e t . li tb rn ific e 'll .4 . l 4We 1 1 - 1:0 0 10 a l eir - v a est iev e;f our tr °4 flid d Lou 10' . 310 tll 4 11 u°,, of t ~.~. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. Th e HO USE OF LORDS, Ffb. 25. shortly after l) "a CH.% Ncry Left took his s e a t on th e W oo l tac k 21 . Five o' c l oc k r • O'Alera, the Cl erk of the Crown in Irel a nd, p resente d 1.411111. examiners under another name, that of general practitioners. Ile came now to another alteration, which was one to which he attached great importance. He earnestly desired that the first entrance to the medical profession should be by oneexami nation, common to all, and that, after this first examination, the practice of the science sheuld be open and common to all who should have passed this portal. But one objection had been made to this principle, which, he must say, appeared reasonable, and was indeed insuperable. Physicians had always strongly, and, as it appeared to him, rightly, attached great importance to an university education, whether that education was re ceived in one of our domestic or in a foreign university. At present they enforced an examination before a general tri bunal ; that examination was an early one, and that early ex amination was made before a general tribunal, that examination not being inconsistent with the long study and education neces sary to the accomplished physician. Some difficulty had been felt as to the limitation of the age before which such examina tion for physicians should be undergone ; he did not think, on the whole, thirty-six would be too late a period of life. But with respect to surgeons, he thought the objec tion on this point would not apply. An university education did not form so invariably, or by any means so frequently, a part of the medical education even of the most accom plished surgeons; this objection, therefore, did not apply to them, and he bad the satisfaction of saying, that, as far as the inquiries ho had made went, there would not be on this subject any objection •n the part of the College of Surgeons to a proposal which he thought would be a great improve ment on the Bill of last session. He proposed that no persons should, under this Bill, be qualified to act as surgeons, unless they had previously been examined as a licentiate in surgery. There was also a provision in the Bill which appeared to be a departure from this principle of uniform examination ; the difference, however, was more in appearance than reality. It was in the proposal to which he attached considerable importance that there should be an examination in midwifery, in addition to that of medicine and surgery. He proposed that the council of health should be, by a provision of the Act, err.pov,Tred to examine general practitioners for all three parts of the United Kingdom, in midwifery also, those practitioners to be distinguished on the registry by a mark against their names, denoting that they had passed this examination. Now, his Hon. Friend the Member fir Middle sex had just presented a petition, in which a request was made that medical practitioners should be incorporated. He had given his most anxious consideration to this subject, and at all events he did not wish to preclude himself by any stipulation on the subject, from adopting that suggestion till the pro fession at large should have had an opportunity of considering the measure.—(Hear, hear.) There was another important alteration he ea 'shed to propose to the House. Ile had last year proposed to repeal the Apothecaries' Act, and entirely to obliterate it. But he had now departed from that intention, and would not totally repeal that enactment. A separation which he should have deeply regretted, between the general practitioner and the College of Surgeons, might have been, in some de gree at least, apprehended as a consequence of his measure of last session. He thought he had modified his measure, in this respect, in a very important degree. He proposed that ne person should be qualified to practice as a surgeon without pre viously passing an examination as a licentiate of surgery. He would not now anticipate the discussion that would cer tainly arise on the question of new charters to Medical Corpo rations. But it had been thought necessary to introduce into the College of Surgeons, for the first time, a peculiar order which existed in every other medical college in Eng land, Scotland, and Ireland, without exception— namely, the order of Fellows of that College.—( Hear. ) It had been thought necessary to create this order, as the con stituent body of the elective council of the College.—( Hear, bear.) He was not now arguing the question—he was only stating the difficulties that in the change would have to be overcome, but, if they were surmounted, and the connexion between the College of Surgeons and the general practitioners preserved, he was convinced that this latter class would become more noble and more useful than it had bees at any ante cedent period. Now, reserving to himself a full right of con sidering the policy of advising the Crown to grant charters of incorporation, he confessed he should be driven to give that advice with the greatest possible reluctance, were he not anxious to sustain the character, the standing, and position of the general practitioners. He thought they were the most useful body of men in the community.—( Hear. ) In large cities, where great numbers of people were congre gated, a division of labour was not only possible in the profes sion, but led to excellence, to increased skill, and greater re muneration. In cities, therefore, it was possible to divide the medical profession into the physician, the surgeon, and the general practitioner, and this division had actually arisen from the force of circumstances. But dealing, as it was his duty to do, with the interest of the entire community, he could not dissemble from himself the fact, that the great body of the poorer population, covering the greater area of the kingdom, must look to the general practitioner for assistance, and he thought it was his first duty to the public to do all in his power to uphold the character arid position of the general practitioner. He now sincerely stated that he entertained the greatest doubt whether it would be for their advantage, and for the honour and dignity of the profession, that they should be separated from the College of Surgeons ; and he entertained the san guine hope of connecting the general practitioner with the College of Surgeons. He was most anxious that the altera tions which he tendered in the most conciliatory spirit, might meet with the wishes of the general practitioners, whose opi nions he was most anxious to obtain. He had given the whole subject his most serious consideration, and the changes he pro posed were the result of it. He considered it indispensably necessary for the whole profession, that the body of the several practitioners should be connected with the College of Surgeons, a noble institution, which had produced the most eminent surgeons in Europe, which had o ne of the fi nes t museu m s in the world, and which was renowned for the progress which it had made in the science of human physiology. It was impossible that this arrangement could be otherwise than that of conferring honour and distinction on the general practitioner. He could not anticipate from any other arrangement equal benefit to the general practitioner. He would pass on to another alteration in the Bill of last year. Previously to qualifying as a physician, the Bill im posed as a necessary condition that the candidate should, fey the three years immediately preceding examination, have re sided in the University. Upon consideration, he found it would be wholly impossible to carry out this provision. He therefore proposed to substitute two years after examination, or three years antecedent. And instead of three years' resi dence in a Foreign University, one year was proposed. He now came to the question of the constitution of the Councils. If he had filled any other station he would have ventured to have proposed to the House some alterations in this respect. His own judgment led him to believe that, upon the whole, it would be far safer to leave to the Government, acting upon its responsibility to Parliament, the power of nomination. But he felt it necessary, situated as he was, to depart in some re spects from this principle ; but, upon the whole, he would ad here to the plan for the formation of a Council proposed in the Bill of last session. The matter was still open to discus sien, but he intended to make it a condition that the nomina tion of six members of the Council should be reserved to the Crown ; and that a portion of those six, so appointed, should be general practitioners and country practitioners, for it was only fair that those important classes should be re presented at the Board. In the Bill of last year there was a deficiency which he now proposed to remedy. It conferred no power on the Council to remove from the registry men who had been guilty of flagrant misconduct. By the alterations under the Bill, it gave a power of removing from the re gistry any party who had been convicted before any courts of law, or who had practised, or attempted to practice upon false testimonials. There was one other alteration. He proposed to give to the faculty of physicians and surgeons in Glas gow equal and co-ordinate powers of licensing with the College of Physicians and Surgeons in Edinburgh. By the Bill of last year, lie had conferred on the Glasgow Col lege the power of licensing both in surgery and medicine ; bat subsequent experience had convinced him that they could have no such power. The question had been raised before the Su preme Court in Scotland, and it was clearly proved that the Glasgow College had no power of licensing, and that the power misted only in the College of Physicians and Surgeons in Edinburgh. lie was not aware of any other important change. He had pointed out such alterations as he thought were neces sary, and so far from time alterations being at vari ance with the great objects of the measure, they were perfectly consistent with it. He had been anxious to avail himself of all the discussion which had taken place on the subject, and had not been at all affected by the angry spirit which had been infused into those discussions. He had endeavoured to take a calm and dispassionate view of the subject, being perfectly disinterested, and having only one desire, that of promoting the public welfare. He would not consider that his labour had been thrown away in the least de gree, if he were fortunate enough to introduce some improve ments in this most useful profession. He would not now press the measure upon the consideration of the House, but would give time for further discussion and further consideration. But he hoped this session would not close without some measure beneficial to the profession receiving the sanction of that House, and passing into law.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill for the better regulation of medical practice throughout the United Kingdom. Mr. WAKLEY heard the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman with the greatest satisfaction; and he now believed that the difficulties which pressed upon the subject would be amicably arranged and finally settled. The Right Hon. Gen tleman had shown by the alteration which he proposed his anxiety to meet the wishes of all departments of the profession. He believed the Right Hon. Gentleman and the Government had not been at all aware of the difficulties which beset this question when they first took it in hand. There were so many interests involved in it, se many laws affecting the profession, so many rights apparently opposed to one another, as well as to common sense, that it was extremely difficult to legislate upon it. He felt very strongly against the former Bill, and he had so expressed himself. He thought many of its provisions were most objectionable ; but he now felt satisfied that the Right Hon. Gentleman, in the alterations proposed, was anxious to conciliate all parties, and to listen to any suggestion which might be thrown out from any side. Ho would now only ask for the postponement of the second reading of the Bill, so as to give time for full deliberation with reference to all its provisions ; and the Right Hon. Baronet would receive the gratitude of the most important bodies of men to be found in the country.—( Cheers.) Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. Sir J. GRAHAM mired for leave to bring in a Bill to en able her Majesty to grant new charters to certain Colleges of Physicians and surgeons. He heard with great satisfaction the speech of the Hon. Member for Finsbury. He would ac. cede to the postponement of the second reading of the Bill t ill after Easter. In compliance with this feeling, he was quite to lay on the table of the Hous e four charters. Those eharters were, a charter for the physicians of London, another for the physicians of Dublin, another for the physicians of Edinburgh, and another fir the College of Surgeons in Edin burgh. These, he thought, would sufficiently secure the ob jects he had in view. . ro t 1