The Sun. — London, England, 1844-02-02 00:00:00

R~.+_. sot h't feel p, • •ashamed of themselves .or ha- leg e;l,oe-i -he ‘,.ninese so far t o h ave out - steppe d t h em i n en li g h tene d win ;tides of commerce. By the Ch i nese tariff, every artic l e of 0 ° (1 was admitted free of duty. Let the Right Hon. Baronet mid his Coll e t ar , ea e ues follow that example. We had been called te . oarians by the Chinese, and ha thought the r ut was not misapplied when the principles (I stir tariff were considered. He would take that opportunity of referring to one subject, which he thought was highly credits tdeto the c h aracter of th i s country and lionoureite to the in dividual in whom it had originated. He alluded to the V_Plemental treaty which had been concluded by her -119esty's Plenipotentiary. By this treaty every nation wa tsdhrnitted to I t with our recent possessions in China. He , o ught this m os t pra i sewor th y , an d an h onour t o th e coun t r y. Ile (Mr. Hume) had propo-ed an amendment to one of the tar,„agraphs of th e a dd ress , w hi c h- was t o thi s effect— % "at whilst we acquiesce with your Majesty in lu e co mmendations bestowed on the officers and men employed hold °or late military ope r ation •in Sinde, we with any expression of opinion respecting the la dice negotiations pending with, and the dethrone tirt and imprisonment of, the Ameers of Sinde." f ound that before he came into the House, a notice had if:: given, by w hi c h th e su bj ec t wou ld b e brought before the ae on an early day. For his own part he protested trinst the whole proceedings that had been taken against t unfortunate country.—( Hear, hear.) He thought Eng :s had disgraced itself in the eyes of the world by the pro el:ll°lrs they had adopted in Sinde. The Hon. Gentle who had secon d e d the address had talked of the f r ; e ne cittl progress of commerc ; he hoped in doing so he did not til,lude India, where by armies conquests had been effected in al violation of every engagement this country had made. we e , Right Honourable Baronet ought to have tome forward .L''s further information on this subject at the close of the last to . , s , i ° ll ; and if he had done so, he would have removed a great `' of the st r if e an d bl o odshed that had taken place in that H untry,_(Hear, hear.) Now it might be curious for the ss tuse to know the statements that had been made in King's il„ . " @teen's speeches for the last twenty-five years; for that "i both in war and peace, the same statement was made ltith respect to the estimates. They were always told Olt they h a d b een f rame d w ith strict economy, regard e H ri e l b g had to the public service. Nostatementw he thofroughtm House ought not to take such a A linister o f the Crown, unless they had a control over Hthe es timates, which they had not. It was impossible for the I ,",°se, or any o th er person, to believe that they would have r i ',,"ahle estim a t es l a id before them while these things con ued, and, for the purpose of obviating such a state of things, ,e shouhl move an amendment.—(Laughter.) lie had no Ib t the adoption of such a course would not be very Pleasurable to many, for they thought, as long as the y, pt money, or money's worth, it was all right. ' once the money left the Exchequer it flowed through so m l oy rivul e t s th a t the r e was no k now i ng h ow many persons "Med a share of the public money. It was the most im portant duty of Parliament—it was the only duty that Parlia•• rent was capable of executing efficiently—( A laugh)—to e e ,CP I guard upon the public expenditure. With regard tothe !_turittes they ought to adept the plan which was adopted ts. France and Belgium. There every estimate was sub- Muted to a Committee. The Committee had the head o it f the department before them, and called upon him for I:4_eplanations they might require . These explanations vro „ i s et rid before the Chambers before the estimates were ap ado ti of or rejected. In this country we had erred in not bex p r „ n ,g a similar course. He was pleased to observe from the th e br i graph that there was an improvement in several of a es i ni a nches of the revenue. He admitted that there had been th a r - Psement in some articles of commerce, but he feared p od ,lat improvement was only partial. He believed it de ar, upon the opening of the ports of China, °r l the improvement in the trade of America, Rat he could net see any prospect of its continuance. But, rs "ever might be the improvement, it was impossible to deny ,S's existenee of great distress and destitution. One of the :uses to which he attributed the evils of the country,. was the h er of the means for the people to exchange the products of e 'r industry for the means of support. In short, he attri- Ptsd thos e ev il s to our restrictive commercial p o li c y. Th e all lion. Baronet had very acutely left out of the speech I f allusion to the corn-laws. Now when the Right Ho n . a ronet, in bringing forward the tariff, had so ably and clearly 'ensPounded the doctrines on which the commercial policy of this l ie utty ought to be conducted, he was either right or wrong. Ri k (ttle. linme) believed that he was right, b u t he ask e d th e a u g ut ßaronet why had he stopped short ? The con )et which the Right Hon. Baronet was pursuing in doing , s _wss sure to give general dissatisfaction. He was to glad to oPpesite several gentlemen who had taken part in a meet togtv,"t up to oppose the Anti-Corn-law League. They could T s us ignorant of the operations and influence of the League. C 't e Y now admitt e d th at t h e L eague w as a great fact, end they ad .°P meetings to oppose it. The Right Hon. Baronet had L theu r n es i o t ri t z ed sit. th a t the time might come when the principles of the i u a gue might be carried out ; he had never said that free trade ould never be granted. He had acted unwisely in t reaviug the subject in doubt and difficulty. Those inte le„sseed support of the law got up meetings to oppose the e a lie s ue• One of them had been held at Steyning ;it had been e g a meeting of tenant-farmers. Among the names of I % ,?se Present he read those of the Earl of Egmont, the Earl of e leh lisee, the Duke of Norfolk, Lord Gage, Sir C. iffoord Sir C. Burrell, Colonel Wyndham ; there was Page filled with the names of Noble Lords ad Hon. crobers, and these were all tenant-farmers. _(A laugh.) Whyad , ▪ there ever before been exhibited such a faree?—( A laugh.) accused them, at these tenant-farmer meetings, of abuse the ;oft foul, and of language the most discreditable. Now, he eauld venture to say, that in all the Anti-Corn-law meetings o u t had been held in England and Scotland—and how .....teerons they had been was known to all—( Hear, hear) e ° language to be compared for its vulgarity and bi scr editableaess to that employed at the tenant-farmers' assem 2sges had ever been uttered. Bat what he had to maintain Zs that the Right Hon. Bart. at the head of the Government rs,_ s doing great injustice to these tenant-farmers in leaving s e7re in the state of uncertainty which he did, and rt telling them of his determin a ti on t o propose total repeal.—(Laughter.) Why he hoped he would do that, tor, from a proposal or an advocacy of a fixed duty he had entirely precluded himself, as well by his votes as his speeches. !:te thought all classes, but more especially the tenant-farmers, 4 ,4 a right to complain of the Right Honourable Baronet for Just - subje c t of the corn-laws in the mentioning the T e question was, did the Right ;Le n a? jr e o n i t u le t m he an T in h r e o a n n e t . o 110 something this session in refer ence to the corn-law, or did he not?—( Hear, and a laugh.) He (Mr. Hume) believed that he did not i n t en d to do anything, this session, for in the yeer 1841 he had brought to book the Noble Lord near him (Lord John Russell) because he had not introduced into the speech from the throne the subject of the corn-laws, and yet, at a subsequent period of that session, he had brought it under their consideration. He said, why not put that into the *Peed' from the throne as the advice tendered by Ministers, and then broach the subject afterwards? and from this he (Sir Robert Peel) had volunteered the expression of his convic tion that the subject of the corn-laws was an after-thought of, the th en Mi n i s t ers , an d reso l ve d su dd en l y upon b y them. 'hough, then, the Right Hon. Baronet might have no intention cf interfering with the corn-law , still the country h a d a r i g ht to ex .Pect him to say something in reference to them and to the „inisterial intentions. What said the Duke of Richmond ? ;te said that they were entitled to know distinctly the inten -1,1:It:A the Government—that it was their duty to ask, locu ‘ n u t t k he language of threat, or even of reproach, what was tcertitiellietutt4 them, and that they were entitled to tell the Minis whether :fer"in that suspense was the worst of all evils, the all punishments, and that they required to know n t the protection they now enjoyed was to be continued ar rs i n ° l4 "e(liear, hear.) Now his (Mr. Hume's) complaint notice the speech from the throne was, that in i t no rest'. whatever was taken of that important inte- G ow This course of conduct on the part of the sh att e r:Mein was mere to the detriment of the landed interest B *f any other. If the landed interest thought itself the g interest which it did—and that it was a great interest he g r ound enough to concede—then it had a very just re se r of complaint indeed. He would refer to other T e ngs of tenant-farmers—the one at Northampton. arunune Anti-Cone-law League," said Sir C. Knightley, " rank Th e them the whole refuse of mankind."—( Laughter. ) such ° use might suppose that that included everything, but le r , less not the case. " This League, called the Anti-Corn :cisctieetUtiagton I think, the most pestiferous society the Jacobin Club, in the days of the French (Great laughter .) " The object of one Ve rt : tlf those gentlemen is to overthrow the present Go to th: n a t " He denied it.—(Laughter.) He did not belong With 7 A nti-Corn-law League, but he repelled that charge ohj ect '"dignation. "Of another section, the Radicals, the di rect 's to overth row th e Constitution." He gave the lie to that. — (L aug h ter. ) H e was a R a di ca l , h e h a d b een eeel• Radical,• e and h e s till a vo we d himself one ; and he d that any man who stated what he had just read tier ed ! e llurnniatiation of himself, and of all with whom he the w (Hear, hear.) He went on to say, " I conceive th e 0 ,1 1 : about as muc h a ff ec ti o n between the on e pa r ty a n d er, as there was between Jonathan Wild and Jack Shep hetwee-e(Great laughter.) What was the affection that existed *he ro n e the Right Hon. Baronet and many of those from sir he received support he would not then inquire. is su • Charles then went on to accuse the League of stie l l, b las . phemous publications and indecent publications, seeltering them all round the country. Now the Anti resit Rh o League contained, he believed, many of that class oleo s • e re more careful of public morals than almost any other ett ero l ° the country.—( Cries of " Oh, oh.") He thought this a nd w as highly discreditable to Sir Charles Knightley, to eet i ose with whom he was connected. There were other of iutt n ,iftt at which the language used, and the mode of speaking thoughtuc individuals, were equally unjustifiable. He such things were in a great measure attributable to the Pik ed " in which the Right Honourable Baronet had i himself t -ons, te ", by not carrying out his own inten ctilties "e was not ignorant, indeed, of the diffi tie r of the Right Honourable Baronet's position. leon.eVlessted a speech made in that House by the Right low tb s 'sronet opp os it e , i n w hi c h h e to ld t h e Noble Lord be .serdzst, if he knew any measures which he believed to be no uc dst to the prosperity and welfare of the country, he was Pror oc ' L a s a Minister of the Crown, having taken . an oath to %eh "' the interests of the country , to bring forward for Measures • and if he abstained from doing se h fe ar 'ate • of not carrying them, he ought not to tio se hi s situati on a moment . L e t the Right Hon. Baronet ho n 4. `,: s what h e as k e d t h e N o bl e L o rd to do. If the Right Prop er s 'aronet believes that the principles of free trade are the sThy r ,P r ineiples for a free country—and who can doubt it— the, ;°t propose th em ?— ( Hear, hear.) But he left ses u e°setry in a state of excitement—league against It we While the country was torn in pieces. He said eltsd t e t,l i we duty of the Right Hon. Baronet to speak out ce i n ' Duke of Richmond and Sir H. Verney know what the ,inroad to do. Commercial restrictions were the cause o l e ie ve th !of the country, and every person eves bound . to re -orie it distress by contributing toremove them. Nothing was crea sed t session, it was a mere blank. Pauperism in- Ni el .. throughout the county, which was left without toid d A recoil took place, because it was impossible things bett er ! °on as they had been going. Things were now getting %e we The Hoe. Seconder of the address alluded to ck %stances of this improvement. One was a case in Pe, rs o " un s reduction had . been made in the number . of lAD%receiving relief in one union, from .2,000 to to r ue _ But was it n o t th e d uty o f a G overnm ent care and provid e - t h e means of work i ng for 4, 000? leweete se g of opinion that the corn-laws, and all other prohibitory th e °oght to be considered and amended, he regretted that t rusted contained no notice on the subject ; but RightEnure, ,e 0 73 they would have a declaration from the do z . Honourable Baronet, which would do away with i°l4ious to all He was confident that the corn-laws were classes in the community, even to the landed tn4o°P:ients.irs themselves ; and that they would become more and Ir qs ts t Janous, and it was upon that account he said that it inititsztolomon object of all to remove them. There were h t s dn4 irs.sfiosr relieving the distress of the metropolis, :ett s rm Y t r3 a, ,ltops and Ministers of the rown ; there were ei ens in LT 1 institutions for-this purpose; there were besides c oath on eis t ,o. 4,.. tu_ted.o.ll, e_ v_ W e o ry oll p en ar , ish ; notwithstanding which the distress An increase of treble had taken place in and hardware trades, but notwithstanding . tie edi sutt .. all their charitable institutions, the distress conti to);eQuarnaFetthtu had daily reports of persons dying of hunger erefore, to call on her Majesty's Ministers to Pori arinus _es ,. ith them in removing all restrictions on the im- Nsloy me !' w tocel and every article of industry. Nothing but osea one _ euld afford substantial relief to the country. They ate nv ,ze i ju t er ld that the repeal of the corn-laws would lower wages. ed that impossible, because wages were lower in THE ANN, LO Nn oitl% XT AY ENTI47NING, PEERUARY 2, 1844. devoted to the purchase of clothing and other things of which the poor stood in need. It was obvious, therefore, that the bounty of Providence had much to do with the improvement to which reference had been made.—( Hear.) This was qaite independent of any policy which might be adopted with respect ' to corn. The es:parienee of the las' year could hardly be quoted in favour of any particular law ; for he doubted whether, if they had a law prohibiting the import of corn, the effect would nave been very different. But as the Hon. Member for Montrose had spoken on that subject, he would venture to say a few words as to the disadvantageous position of the landed interest and the farmers as to the policy of the Right Hon. Baronet. There were many schemes bearing upon this subject. One was the old scheme of protection for all articles of British industry. That policy still had numerous advocates. Another opinion was the direct reverse of that, that there ought to be no protecting laws at all, that there should be no taxes except for the sake of revenue, and that they should beware, in imposing taxes for the sake of revenue, that they which th e pr i ce o f an y ar ticle of industrysould be enh ance d. Th ere was a third domesticdi d not i opin:on, which was the opinion held by the Right Hon. Gentleman, and very nearly that held by himself ; that although anything v by the first opinion was totally erroneous, and although the second was absolutely true, yet, in the con diti on o f t hi s coun t r y, having to raise the interest of a debt of SOO millions— having, also, to appoint numerous establishments—and having, for these purposes, laid on many taxes at various times, and of various kinds, some pressing on one class of industry, and some on another—in making the change from what was erro neous to what was true, they should make it with great caution, and they should rather look to having a fair competition, with some advantage to their own consumers , who had been, hitherto, unduly favoured, than go at once into a system of total and entire freedom. Now this last principle was, he conceived, that upon which the Right Hon. Baronet had founded his tariff two years ago. But the fault of the corn-law was, that it did not carry the principle far enough. The cosn-law, if it were good for anything, was founded on the principle of protection to British industry. All those who now defended the corn-law defended it upon that ground. It was a law which was left alone; it was a law which was repudiated by their policy with respect to all other articles ; and it was a law which could not be defended, except upon a theory which they themselves (the Ministry) said was indefensible.—( Hear, hear.) Now that appeared to him to be placing the whole landed interest at a disadvantage. If they said. " Let all classes of British industry be protected, for that is the true principle," they might tie up the corn-laws in a bag with the rest of the laws, and they would then have strength to resist any inroads which it might be attempted to make. On the other hand, they might defend making corn a source of revenue. But whilst, as regarded other articles, they had adopted a moderate duty, as regarded that article in which the majority, both in the House of Lords and in the House of Commons were deeply interested, they had a duty of 40 per c nt., that duty shifting and changing in a way which every commercial man declared to be irreconcilable with sound principle. When, therefore, gentlemen attending agricultural meetings expressed a hope that the Right Hon. Baronet would come forward and declare that the corn-law WM binding in all perpetuity, he did think that they made the most extravagant request that ever he heard,—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet told them last year that he did not mean to alter the corn-law that session ; but that as regarded the future he must be guided by the condition of the country, and the probable effect of any new commercial law. He thought that was the only answer which the Right lion. Ba ronet could fairly be expected to give ; but he would be much surprised if he now found him saying, " I am so enamoured of my law, that I am determined to stand by it."—( Hear, hear. ) He spoke thus much with regard to the subject introduced by the Hon. Member for Montrose He did not know anything more to add, than that he gave his concurrence to the address. He did not want any addition made to it of the kind alluded to by the Hon. Member for Montrose, and he would give his de cided negative to the amendment now proposed.—( Hear.) Sir R. PEEL si.id that, before adverting to the motion of the Hon. Member for Rochdale, or the observations of the Noble Lord, he was sure the House would excuse him for expressing the satisfaction with which he heard the speech of his Noble Friend who proposed, and the speech of his Hon. Friend who seconded, the address.--( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Montrose, who was their political opponent, stated distinctly that he never heard an address moved and seconded with greater judgment or with more ability than on the present occasion. —( Hear, hear.) He was sure the ability they mani fested, combined with the sincere and unaffected diffidence exhibited on their own parts, gained for them the favourable opinion of the House, and he hoped that the favourable opinion of the House would induce them to overcome that feeling of distrust and dididence, and to apply their abilities to the service of the country.--( Hear, hear.) it was his duty to state his decided opinion upon the amendment of the Hon. Member for Rochdale. He apprehended that motion was intended as the foundation of measures to be adopted for the purpose of stopping the supplies. If he concurred with the Hon. Gentleman in entertaining the opinion he entertained with regard to the advantage of introducing more of the democratic prin ciple into the Constitution, he should be equally energetic in deprecating the course indicated by him.—( Hear, hear.) Ile could conceive nothing more injurious to the popular prin ciple of the Constitution than the abuse of the privilege which a minority of that House possessed. The power of adjourn ment was one which it might be well to act upon on certain occa sions, but it was given under the greatest responsibility, and unless used with great caution by Hon. Gentlemen they would only injure the popular principle and those interests of which they were the sincere—he was bound to suppose—and the strenuous advocates.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman would stop the supplies till the people obtained a redress of grievances. But what various opinions were there with regard to those grievances, anti the.mode of redressing them? and if the Hon. Gentleman, and those who acted with him were to form the Government of the country, and possessed a great majority, they would be setting an example which might he used against themselves, and a privilege, intended for other purposes, would be used to obstruct the the public business.—(Laughter.) The privileges of a minority were important as a protection against an oppressive majority, but he had seen no case in which a mi nority would be justified in resorting to it. But, above all, that great instrument which the House possessed of stopping the sup plies was one which it was of the utmost interest to them should remain intact, and one which should not be inconsiderately and unjustifiably used, bat reserved for some great and important occasion. —(Cheers.) It was not to be resorted to because a small minority differed from a great majority as to what was right. He had seen many occasions in which, at the com mencement of a session, the Hon. Gentleman, and those who sat on his left, came forward with strong declarations as to their intentions, which in the course of the session they saw reason to alter; and he had that confidence in the good sense and sound judgment of the Hon. Gentlemen which induced him to call upon them to reflect, and to consider whether, being the guardians of this great ipopular instrument by which popular privileges, interests, and rights, might have to be defended, they ought to resort to it on trifling and unimportant occasions. —(Cheers). With regard to the speech of the Hon. Member for Montrose, he agreed with the Noble Lord that it was much better to abstain from introducing anything into the speech from the Throne which might lead to a division, and for this reason, that if it were otherwise, the Government would possess a great advantage. They knew the entire of the speech, and if they wished to carry any particular paragraph in the address, they might by a large majority do so by getting pledges of opinions from some parties and by issuing summonses for their trienda to attend. He thought, therefore, that it was better if possible to avoid anything th a t wou ld l ea d t o a division. l e for Commonsthe m t t o o g t i h v e e the 23 consideration paragraphs o th f at th it e The Hon. Gentleman (the Member for Montrose) had said was address in a few hours. He said th a t th ey s h ou ld a t least have ui impossible b 24 hours ; but he (Sir R. Peel) very much doubted whether the important and various subjects alluded to in the address could be satisfactorily decided even in that time. The Hon. Gentleman did not show his usual modesty and dis trust in his own opinion, for notwithstanding the shortness of the time he came prepared with three or four amendments, and he called upon the House not to lose a moment in pledg. ing themselves to them.—(Laughter.) He thought that it was for the public interest that they should not raise a sepa rate discussion on all the matters introduced in the speech. He was of opinion that the present practice was far preferable to the ancient practice of reading it at the Council the day before. He was glad to bear that the general tenor of the speech met with the approbation of the Noble Lord.- With regard to Ireland, the satisfaction with which he heard that approbation of the Noble Lord was not much lessened by the small taunts with which he indulged in the course of his speech. With regard to France, the No ble Lord, in his own vindication, referred to a period when there existed a difference of sentiment and action between this country and France. He would not refer now to the causes which produced those differences, but he contemplated, and h e believed the House concurred with him in contemplating, with great satisfaction the re-establisment of better feelings between both countries—(Cheers)—and he thought it was infinitely better not to disturb that feeling by any refer ence to former times till a period arose when they would have an oppportunity of discussing the subject. The discussing the amount of blame to which each party might be liable, would be likely only to revive animosity, which could effect no good purpose ; but he saw with satisfaction that the House was almost unanimous in expressing their satisfaction at the re-establishment of better feelings between both countries, upon which the interests of peace and civilisation so much depended.—(Cheers.) When in Opposition he never con cealed his sentiments as to the policy of having a good under standing with France, and it was better that he should explain what he meant by a good understanding.—( Hear, hear.) lie did not mean any secret engagement which might give offence to others. That understanding ought to be patent and open. They sought not to interfere with the prerogatives or rights of others. —( Hear, hear.) They coveted no invasion of terri tory. They desired not to diminish the just influence of others. They wished not to propagate opinions with regard to the systems of other countries.—( Hear, hear.) Their ob ject was not to weaken the affections between the people and the Sovereign—( Hear, hear) —but the time was come when they were to ask, whether the interests of those countries were op posed to each other—whether there was any necessity for their tomenting party feelings ?—(Cheers. ) If there was no obstacle to a good understanding existing between the two countries, it was for the interests of hu manity and civilisation that that good understanding should become established.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Did England covet any of the possessions of France, or France those of England? Did the:, desire any extension of territory at the expense of each other ? Were their institutions op posed ? They had each a representative Government, and they had each responsible Ministers. On the part of this country he would say at once that he was perfectly certain that a good understanding could not be cordially or permanently maintained at the expense to either country of any con cession of any point of honour, or any compromise of prin. ciple.—( Hear, and cheers.) It was virtually necessary for a cordial and permanent understanding between the two countries that it should be known there were no secret engagements or special contracts with which any other country could find fault. On the part of England, he could say that no concessions were made by France, or the French Government. There was no compromise, no concession of any right, or of any kind, in any particular whatever ; but, from the position of both countries, standing as they did, at the western extremity of Europe, and almost similarly situated with regard to that great quarter of the globe on the other side of the Atlantic, and governed by similar institutions, there was nothing to prevent a friendly under , standing between both countries. But if there was to be in every country in the world, a French party and an English party, he could only say that England and France would be the curses of the world. There would be no advantages in constitutional institutions. He had read that very day a letter from the re presentative of that country in Athens, that able and distin guished individual, Sir E. Lyons, which proved that a good understanding should exist between France and England. It was by the understanding which subsisted between them that Greece now possessed a limited monarchy with all its preroga tives. The letter to Ewhich he referred was dated on the 10th of January last, and he rejoiced to know that M. Placatory, the Minister of France, decidedly approved of what had been done by both Governments. The representatives of one class of opinions in that House—the representatives, if he might presume to say so, of extreme po pular opinions, and the Noble Lord opposite, the head of a great party in that House, declared their concurrence in the sentiment he ventured to express. The great body of the people of this country . had no wish to refer to past animosities, anti those national antipathies, which ought to be buried in oblivion. They admitted the glary of France—that it was inferior in military glory . to no country in the world—that it obtained that reputation in war by the skill of its great com manders, and the national valour of its men ; but he hoped that France herself—and her great and powerful—would not think it necessary to stir up hostile feelings for the purpose of securing to her a reputation of which she could not stand iu Engla,,d than in ant ce - ,,itry in the wed& —( Cries n "Oh ! oh I") Yes. he repeated it—where could they get a shirt made for lid. and a knife and fork for the same price? So great hail been the dissiess, that many had been anxious to get a paltry sum of three halfpence for twelve hours' labour. Was it possible, I.c wouli, ask, to conceive such a state of things? The truth was, in the country pauperism was increasing ; the poor-rates, which had been reduced, were now rising rapidly, and paupers were increasing ; added to this, prices were failing, and how was this? why, because men had no work by which they could get money. In his ~pinion the House of Commons was doing great injury to the country, and he called upon them to reconsider their course. if the Right Hon. Baronet would only postpone the address till Monday, in order to afford an opportunity to the people of knowing what it was that the address contained, he was sure if the Right Hon. Baronet would adopt that course, as quick as the post could bring them, the grievances of the people would be poured into that House. Now it was his intention to move two amendments, he considered the distress that existed in the country was owing to two causes, one the existence of the corn-laws and other prohibitory enactments, which if put an end to would remove that distress and suffering, and the other was the great increase of taxation. Her Majesty, in her speech—or rather her Ministers, in their speech—had been cautious upon that subject ; but these taxes caused misery to the people.—( Hear.) He regretted to see taxation increased to the extent it had been when it ought to be reduced. Then, again, with respect to the income-tax, that impost instead of falling on the wealthy had fallen very heavily on the poorer classes. He believed the larger portion of the poor people had been obliged to pay that tax, and the trouble of getting it back was such that the money was not considered worth it. The Right Hon Baronet did not tell them, as he did in 1828, that a Finance Committee should be appointed to see where the excesses of the expenditure had taken place. He thought her Majesty ought to have called upon her Ministers to look to the distresses of the people. What was the use of having peace, when they were obliged to keep up a war establishment ? He was anxious that the House should not be led away by a species of trickery. If they wished for an example of the evil effects which must follow from any breach of faith with the public creditor, let them look across the Atlantic.—( Cheers.) He had always opposed everything like a breach of faith with the public creditor, although he saw those on the benches opposite who had, in their speeches and their writings, recommended a breach of the public faith.—( Cheers and laughter.) For every pound that was withheld from the public creditor, the country lost millions.—(Hear, hear.) They had recently had an example of the effect of upholding public credit. What occurred in Virginia? There had been considerable difficulty in raising funds to meet the interest of the debt. The Governor had recommended the House to raise a tax to pay the interest due to the public creditor. A small sum, amounting to about 800,000 dollars, had been raised for that purpose, and the effect had been that the stocks which had been at 45 or 50, rose immediately to 70 and to 82. Three-fourths of those funds were held by inhabitants of the States who thus found that their capital was doubled, and that they were able to exchange it, and to use it for any purposes which they might require. Every State in America which had broken faith with the public cre ditor had suffered, would suffer, and ought not to recover until they had regained public credit, by paying their creditors. He agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet as to the necessity of maintaining public credit. That person was the greatest enemy to the working classes who should recommend a breach of the public faith with the national creditor, for the working classes would suffer more severely in consequence, than any other. The most effectual way, however, to maintain the pub lic credit, was by a reduction in taxation, to lessen the burden of the people. If less were taken from them by the income tax, they would be more effectually enabled to contribute to the other taxes of the country. The public credit would have been more effectually preserved if, instead of raising five millions by an income-tax, a reduction had been made in our establish ments. All that was wanted was that they should set free labour, the industry and the commerce of the country.—(Loud cheers.) They had ships rotting in their harbours for want of employment, with which they would have been furnished if we had had free trade. He scarcely pitied the ship-owners, for they had been the greatest monopolists, and they were now paying the penalty of their folly. Much had been said about commercial improvement. Let the Right Hon. Baronet look to every trade except those connected with the woollen and cotton manufacture, and he would see nothing but distress. Our condition could not be a wealthy one as long as there were millions of money unemployed and capital lying dead. Nothing but extending the outlets for our exports, could furnish the means of employment. They were told that if they did this it would not give increase of employment ; but he denied that position. Even those States in which the most stringent regulations existed against our commerce, hail been compelled to take more articles from us whenever we relaxed our commercial code. Our commerce with France had been tre bled. There was not a bushel of wheat imported which did not give additional employment to the people. It did not lower the price of British produced wheat, but it afforded a full meal to those who had only before had half a one.—( Hear, hear). The articles of butter and cheese had not been affected bythe tariff, although a Noble Lord, speaking in the enlightened county of Buckingham, had complained that the farmers had been all ruined by the duty having been taken off cheese—(A laugh)—and when they looked at the article of live cattle— why the whole of the cattle imported in the course of last year wou'd not have made a single breakfast for the working people of this country. They had every right to complain of the Right Hon. Baronet, because he would not carry out the same princles of commercial policy which he had enunciated. —(Cheers.) He believed that over-taxation was one of the evils under which this country was labouring, and he thought that many of those evils had been produced by the conduct of the Right Honourable Baronet. With regard to the subject of the revenue, if it were properly looked into and fairly stated, it would present a very different appearance to that which it was assumed to have by the Ministerial party. If they would deduct the amount received for the income-tax, the revenue derived from corn, and the amount received from China, instead of speaking in the glowing terms which they did of our financial situation and our returning prosperity, they would find their asserted increase sink down into a revenue less by a million and a half than that of last year. Re athey them weel l 'meting to the con di t i on o f t h e wor ki ng c l asses , let r ic he c a o t mpe t l h le e d tore s d a u y e e t d h at r a t t h e e y wereof iwn n a g a es ; anal thing but a state of comfort. When the time arrived at which the Right Non. Baronet at the head of the Government would propose a continuation of the income tax, he would beg them to bear in mind that there would be no occasion for it, no necessity whatever for its further infliction, if they would only do away with the trammels of industry, and give to capital its fair and legiti mate expansion. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Cardwell) in, seconding the address to the Crown, had said much in se of pthe home market, holding it up as the best, s notif the only one for this country. Why, for his (Mr. Hume's) part he could see no difference between the home and the foreign. When a man could sell his articles better at home he would sell them at home, and if he could find a readier market or a better price abroad he would sell abroad.—( Hear.) Here people were constantly protesting against foreign markets, and holding up Home mar kets as the only good for the country, and what was our actual condition? Take the agricultural parishes. Were they not now burthened by persons thrown upon them for relief, thrown back from manufactures, which were rendered idle and unproductive by the very system which he (Mr. Hume) complained of, but of which Hon. Gentle men opposite desired the continuance. These poor people, thus thrown back upon the agricultural parishes, were so thrown, by their own narrow policy and unjust laws. Let them give employment to the people, and they would very soon find all their difficulties at an end. Their disasters were not limited to one class of the people—the agriculturists were suf fering the same as the manufacturers—they were both to be pitied, and ought to be relieved. In order that these matters might in a proper way be brought under the attention of the Crown, he should move certain paragraphs to be added, by way of amendment, to the eleventh paragraph in the proposed address. (The Hon. Gentleman then read his amendment, which was to the effect that the industry of the country was shackled by laws of repression which ought at once to be re pealed, and the principle of free trade fully acted upon—that monopolies should no longer be permitted—and that her Ma jesty having announced the prospect of continued peace, very considerable reductions might and ought to be made in the naval and military services, and the various overgrown esta blishments of the country.) The force now in Ireland was larger than that of 1792. It was a question of importance both to Ireland and England whether such a force shonld be con tinued. Why was it maintained? Because they would not do justice. When the Hon. Member for Cork introduced the question of repeal in that House, he opposed him, believing that repeal would be injurious to the best interests of both countries. But they must now make their selection between two courses ; they must either remove the well-founded com plaints of th Irish people, or they must let them have repeal. —( Hear, hear.) If he believed that justice would not be done to Ireland by the British Parliament he would himself become a repealer.—(Hear, hear.) What was the feeling of Irishmen themselves in reference to their present position? He had in his hand a copy of a petition agreed to be presented to that House, not by the riff-raff, who they were told were the only supporters of Mr. O'Connell and repeal, but at a meeting at which the Duke of Leinster pre sided. (The Hon. Member then read the petition, which de scribed the state of Ireland as one of deep-seated and wide spread discontent, and stated that the petitioners considered that until the causes of complaint were removed, peace could nut be secured on a lasting tooting). He thought the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) and the Noble Lord his colleague, might have learned something from their experience in 1834, when, as Members of the Government of that day, they brought in a Coercion Bill for Ireland. What was the result of that measure? Why, it was a perfect failure. When, subsequently, injustice ceased, when a desire was mani fested to remove all causes of complaint, Ireland immediately responded to the new feeling ; and at one time the army was reduced from 20,000 to 8,500, and troops were sent over to assist in maintaining the peace in Yorkshire. What had oc curred since? They had refused justice to the nation, after pledging themselves to remove all grievances, and the country was deluged with a naval and military force which was a disgrace to any Ministry in a time of peace. The Noble Lord, who had proposed the address, said that he did not wish to raise any topics of dispute. Why, unless they stated what they were prepared to do, the Mi nistry were shirking their duty.—( Hear, hear.) They wanted the moral courage to brin the subject fairly before the House, and they did not redeem the pledge which they hail given, to propose all measures which might be necessary for the welfare of the country. Mr. S. CRAWFORD said he wished to move an amend ment to that part of the address which referred to the esti mates. He wished to add to the paragraph the following words :—" To assure her Majesty that her faithful Commons will be always desirous to vote such supplies as may be found just and necessary for the public service, but that under the existing circumstances of the country we hall deem it our f rst and most important duty to inquire into the various grievances complained of by her people, and to devise such measures as shall be most effectual for the removal of all just causes of complaint." It was their duty to inform her Majesty of the causes of the complaints of the people. That House was the proper organ of communication between the people and the Crown. They possessed no other, and it was therefore their duty to represent to her Majesty what the wants and wishes of the people were. The people had at various times represented those grievances to that House, but their complaints were not listened to, and they therefore believed that they were not fully or fairly repre sented in that House. By representing their grievances to the Crown, her Majesty might, if she so thought fit, desire her Ministers to inquire into their grievances. They complained of the accumulation of property while the destitution of the great body of the people was every day increasing. They com plained that the means of living of lessened, and that while the taxes on fond were continued they sought to give re lief through the adminis tration of the poor law. He would not at that time eater into the subject of the poor-law,_ though he had st ron g opinions upon the subject. When the grievances of the people were not inquired into, it became their duty as Members of that House to take all fair and reasonable means to tome their consideration upon the House, and if possible to obtain redress for them. It was to be regretted that references were not made in the speech from the Throne, but that not being done, it was their duty to make those references in the address. He maintained that it was only their duty to inform the Crown of all the com plaints of the people, and it was the best means of securing the stability of the Crown. It was with that view he brought or ward his amendment, feeling it absolutely necessary that when there was nothing in the speech but accounts of pros perity, while great distress pervaded the great mass of the com munity, so severe that the population could not be afflicted with them, and at the same time subordinate to the law, the Crown should be informed of the real state of the country. He had re ceived instructions from his constituents at Rochdale to adopt the measures which he now proposed. Of course he meant no discourtesy to her Majesty, but he thought it right to give her that information which they ought to receive from the repre sentatives of the people. He should not press on the conside ration of the House any arguments on the subject, further than to move that the amendment be added to the 10th paragraph in the address. The address, which was an echo of the speech, and the amendments, having been put by the Speaker, and no Member rising to address the House, strangers were ordered to with- draw, when Air. WARBURTON mse to address the House. lie did so because he thought that any lion. Member who intended to vote should state his reasons for doing so. if the lion. Mem ber who had moved the amendment—he alluded to the Hon. Member for Rochdale—meant by that amendment to stop the supplies until the grievances of the people were redressed, he could assure him that that was not the vote he was inclined to give. Formerly, when the Crown ventured to commit Mem bers to the Tower, to stop the supplies was a justifiable pro ceeding. They knew one another well ; they knew that civil war was inevitable, and that the House of Commons was fully prepared to support the cause of the people. In those times the evils of stopping the supplies were not of the extent which such a proceeding would now entail on the Crown. Colonies at that time this country had none ; but if they stopped the supplies now they would throw all the foreign establishment of the country into confusion. Formerly the Crown had va rious revenues by which it was supported, but now the reve nues of the Crown were little or nothing. At that time the stopping of the supplies was just ; but it would not be so now. He thought with the lion. Member for Montrose that the estimates were capable of large reduction, and that in addition to that reduction a larger deduction might be made in the naval and military service of the country. A con siderable alteration might be made in the collection of the revenue. When he came into the House he had no intention of addressing it, but as his vote might be liable to misrepresen tation if he gave it for the motion of the Hon. Member for Rochdale, he thought it right to say thus much, and with this explanation he should vote for the Hon. Member's motion. Mr. WALLACE had not, when he entered the House, en tertained any intention of addressing them that evening, but he felt bound to offer an explanation of the vote which he in tended to give in favour of the amendment which had been proposed by his lion. Friend the Member for Rochdale. He agreed with his Hon. Friend the Member for Kendal, as to what had been the former practice of the House, but to such a condition had the people now been brought, that the House must proceed a little faster and a little further than they had hitherto done, or they would be brought to a stand still.— (A laugh). This was not a time to be fastidious, and he would support the Hon. Member for Rochdale in his attempts to stop the supplies whenever he might be of opinion that circumstances might require it.—( A laugh). Hon. Members might laugh, but perhaps they might have an opportunity of judging on the subject before the session was over.—( Re newed laughter). He did not say when he would do it. He would not say whether he should do it on the first occasion that the supplies were proposed, or not, but whenever he should see occasion he would do so most assuredly. He supported the satisfied with amendment ti o the N f it u H s o n. s E MemberLL would f u la n- Ro h av c e h d bee l e e e . n giving a silent vote against the amendment of the Hon. Mem ber for Rochdale, had it not been for the speech of the Hon. Member for Kendal, and for that of the Hon. Member who had just sat down. After that speech, however, he thought he might as well take the opportunity of delivering his sentiments, not only on the motion now before the House, but on the general address, which had been so ably moved and seconded by the Noble Lord and the Hon. Gentleman opposite.— ( Hear, hear). With respect to the motion of the Hon. Member for tiochdale, if the Hon. Gentleman meant to say that the House of Commons ought to have the power to inquire into and to redress grievances, why, if the majority of that House were persuaded that it was fit to inquire into certain matters, and thought that certain remedies were necessary, he knew of nothing in the address which could prevent such a ma jority from engaging in such inquiries, or from adopting such measures ; and the insertion of those words proposed to be in serted by the Hon. Gentleman would be totally unnecessary.— (Cheers). But if it meant that it was intended that a minority of that House should stop the proceedings of the majority— should stop the necessary supplies—necessary, not for the pur poses of the Crown, but for the maintenance of the honour and safety of the country—if the meaning was, that a minority would stop the supplies until opinions which were not those of the majority should be forced upon them by obstruction and delay—he would at once say that to steps of that kind he would never give his sanction, and that he would never give any vote which should tend to that purpose.—( Loud cheers). He thought that in the first case there was no need to introduce the words proposed, which were merely superfluous; and in the second case, he was glad to embrace the earliest opportunity to express his dissent from projects which he had seen had been broached elsewhere, of forcing the opinions of a minority, by means of obstruction and delay upon a majority of that deliberative House of Parliament.—( Cheers.) With respect to the speech from the throne, and to the address itself, he was glad to find that the topics touched upon were treated in such a manner as to meet with his concurrence, so far as his vote on the address was concerned.—( Cheers. ) The Hon. Member for Montrose had said that it would be the better course, as there were so many topics touched, that the House should have time to deliberate, so as to form an opinion upon each topic. According to the method which Lad in former times been adopted with regard to the speech of the Sovereign, it might, perhaps, have been advisable to adopt the plan proposed by the Hon. Member for Montrose ; but according to the method which had been adopted of late years, and which, perhaps. was more adapted to our own times, it had been more usual, both in the speech and the w'dress, to treat the various topics touched upon in such a manner as not to oblige the House to come to any opinion on matters of doubt and controversy—not to call upon the House to express any decided opinion except upon questions which had been over and over again discussed, on which Members were tolerably agreed, such, for instance, as the maintenance of the legislative union with Ireland.—(Cheers.) On other topics it had of late years been usual to thank the Crown for the com munication which had been made, and to reserve those other topics for separate discussion or separate motions.—(Cheers.) With respect to the annexation of Sinde for instance, if he had been called upon to thank her Majesty for having under taken a military aggression against Sinde, he must say he should be anxious to pause and inquire before expressing an opinion on the subject, but the address had been very properly framed, and it only called upon the House to thank her Ma jesty for the information she had been pleased to communicate to them, and for the promise of further papers and information. The Hon. Member for Montrose had complained that there had been twenty-three different topics introduced into the address, but while these topics were treated in this manner, he apprehended that if there had been 53 instead of 23 different topics introduced into the address, the House would have very little difficulty in paying the compliment to the Crown of agreeing to the address without a division. There was one topic which had been treated of in the speech, not, however, in such a manner as to preclude him from voting in favour of the address, but en which he thought it necessary so say a few words, He meant the state and condition of Ireland.— (Hear, hear.) He agreed that while the proceedings to which allusion had been made were pending before the judicial tribunals in Ireland, it would be impossible with a due regard to the proceedings of the Courts of Justice to discuss topics which involved the conduct of persons who had to defend themselves before those Courts. It was therefore impossible at present to discuss those questions fully. But he wished now to be most decided and pointed in precluding himself from any supposition that he gave his approbation to the conduct which had been pursued by the Government—to their most unfortunate proceedings—or to the measures which the Crown was now pursuing or proposed to pursue withrefer ence to the calamities which now Afflicted Ireland. With the few words he had thus uttered he quitted that subject. A friend behind him had. just reminded him that he had given notice of his intention, at an early day, to bring the whole state of Ireland under the consideration of the House, and he fully intended to do so, subject, however, to the circumstance that by the time he had fixed for his motion, the trials now pending would be brought to a close.—(Hear, hear.) If this were not the case—if at the time fixed the trials were still pending —then he should venture to ask the House to give him the preference of the earliest day after their con clusion.—(Hear, hear.) There were several topics treated on in the speech, in which he was most happy to express his concurrence. He was very glad to find that with respect to China a commercial treaty had been made between the two countries likely to be advantageous to both, and that the Chinese Government and our own had both been of the same opinion, that the advantages we had obtained for ourselves should be extended to all other nations. He quite agreed in the sentiment expressed by the Hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) that conduct like this was becoming such a great na' ion as England, evincing as it did a conciliatory and noble feeling towards other nations, and a continued and un abated confidence in our own resources and enterprise.—( Hear, hear.) He was glad also to find that after the panic which had been expressed at the exceeding might and power of the Emperor of China—(Loud laughter)—that the dread which formerly pervaded those now on the other side of the House at the almost irresistible strength of three hundred millions, had somewhat abated—(Loud laughter)— and that it was now with them matter of congratulation that we had not submitted to the ignominy—( Hear, hear)—of having British subjects confined and threatened to be put to death if they did not agree to certain peremptory terms. We had vindicated British honour ; and so far from the result being as calamitous as then it was predicted it would be, our just demands had been enforced by the naval and miliiary skill of the commanders and forces, and by the diplomatic skill of Sir H. Pottinger, acting under the directions of his Noble Friend the Member for Tiverton (Lord Palmerston) ; and we had obtained terms which, so far from being dishonourable, gave hopes of advantages greater than even they had a right to expect.—( Cheers). The speech alluded to the good under standing which we now enjoyed with France, and to the pacific relations which existed between us and the principal Powers of Europe. He snort unfeignedly rejoiced at these intima tions, and trusted that our policy would continue to insure that good understanding. He (Lord John Russell) was one who had been frequently taunted on the subject of the French alliance—with being too fond of that alliance, in contempt of other alliances with the more despotic Powers of Europe. It was imputed to them that, after the alliance had lasted a considerable time, they were the cause of breakir.g that alliance and good understanding. He was happy to find, by some declarations recently made in an Assembly of another country, by persons of autho rity—by the late Prime Minister of France and the present Minister of France—that if there had been any decline in the intimacy and good understanding, that such was not owing to any act on their parts, but because France, for various rea sons, and from various motives, began to look to other ideas and other feelings, which, as he thought, she ought never to have done, and then the good understanding between them would never have been impaired. With regard to the treaty of July, 1841, he was most happy to find, from the Minister of Foreign Affairs, that France had now reverted to her ancient policy, thereby signifying that, for a time, there had been a depar ture from it. That ancient policy had been to maintain the integrity of Turkey by the protection and assistance, not of one or of another, but of all, the great Powers. In that spirit they had acted, and in that spirit he thought France ought likewise to have acted. But, unhappily, she had wan dered from her usual track, and turned to worship some Egyp tian idol—(A laugh )—that for a time had charmed her. But glad was he to find that she had deserted that new track, and returned once more to her ancient and her true policy. Glad should he ever be that our good under standing was renewed with that great country, which he looked upon as one of the most intelligent and power. ful in Europe, distinguished alike in letters, arts, and arms. Other parts of the speech turned upon the present state of our industrious population. He was happy to hear from the Hon. Gentleman who had seconded the address, that there were great signs of improvement in the manufacturing districts. He had no doubt that although there had been exaggeration in some quarters, much real and solid improvement had taken place. If they came to inquire into the causes of that improvement they would no doubt find that one of the greatest causes was the abundance of the harvest of last year and the year before. He was making some inquiries the other day with respect to the price paid for food by some poor families: He found that in one family there was this year a saving of one shilling a week for the consumption of bread. If they considered the number of families who must be in the same condition, it seemed not improbable that some millions had been saved in food, to be need.—(Cheers.) He hoped that this general concurrence of the House of Commons as to the value of having friendly relations subsisting between both countries would prove to France that this was also the honest opinion of the people of England.—(" Hear, hear," and cheers.) With respect to Ireland, he would imitate the example of the Noble Lard. The opinions of the Government had bean de clared in her l‘L.j:styls speech regarding that country. The law would be maintained, and those who violated it would be tried before the legally conaitutcd tribunals of the country. It was impossible to refer to the subject of the present legal proceedings, without, in some manner or other, prejudiciniz the parties who were the subject of it. The Notile Lord fixed a particular day for his motion regarding Ireland, anticipating that the trials would have then concluded. On that occasion the political state of Ireland would be brought under the consideration of the House, and he would, therefore, abstain altogether from reference either to the particular subject of the trials, or to the events neces sarily and immediately connected with them. The only other subject of very great importance was the subject of the corn laws. The Hon. Gentleman stated that in 1840 he (Sir R. Peel) had complained that the Government had not brought under consideration the important question of the corn laws in the speech from the throne. He remembered having made these observations, and considering the magnitude of the subject, and the complicated interests involved in them, he thought it was the duty of the Government, as they had made up their minds regarding the question of the corn-laws, to intimate their intentions through the speech from the throne.—( Hear.) The Honourable Gentleman said that as the subject of the corn-laws was not mentioned in the speech from the throne, he apprehended that they did not mean to alter the corn-laws.—(Load cheers from the Ministerial side of the House. Amongst which the vehemence of Colonel Sibthorp's cheer was distinctly audible, and excited laughter from the Opposition.) If the Government had it in contemplation to submit to the House a proposition for altering the system of corn-laws, he would have thought it his duty to mention it in the speech from the throne. The Noble Lord said he thought the agricultural interest, which he sometimes defended—(Laughter)—had a right to complain of the course the Government were pursuing. The Noble Lord said there were three different opinions regarding the corn-laws. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I said with respect to cemmer- cial policy. Sir R. PEEL—One of those opinions was, that it was de sirable to protect articles of foreign produce—that the present protection was not sufficient—that they ought to be regardless of the imports from foreign countries, but that the true policy was the protection of native industry. Another opinion was the total and immediate abolition of all duties—a protection which merely existed as the means of raising the revenue should be incidental. A third opinion was—and the Noble Lord said that he thought he had the honour of concurring with him (Sir H. Peel) as to the general principle, namely, that although it was tine in a new state of society there should not be protec- tion to native industry, yet in a country having such vast inte rests, burdened with so large an amount of taxation, it would be dangerous at once to apply the abstract principle of free trade, as they would thereby incur the risk of disturb ing capital and injuring vested interests by the removal of that protection. He thought it would be wrong to apply to this country the principles that might be abstractely right, and he thought such application would produce confusion and distrac tion.—(" Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) The Noble Lord said the difference between them lay in the fixed duty and the fluctuating scale. He ( Sir Robert Peel) re tained his own opinions, but he agreed so far in principle with the Noble Lord regarding its application.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) The Noble Lord proposed protection by a axed duty; he (Sir R. Peel) thought it was better secured by a sliding scale. The Noble Lord said that the Members of that House and of the other House of Parliament had sub jected themselves to an imputation by maintaining protection ; but would they not, if a fixed duty were established, be also sub ject to that imputation ? The Noble Lord asked why this tax should be hid upon foreign corn, and not upon home-grown corn; and the Noble Lord instanced the cases of barley and malt,as a proof that revenue was raised from home produce. If revenue (he said) were raised on barley and malt, why should it not be raised on home-grown corn ? Why not pursue as to wheat the same course as to barley, and why not subject the foreign and the home barley to an equal duty? He stated last year, not because it was in the contemplation of the Go vernment to alter the present law, but when pressed to make a declaration on the part of the Government—he did say that he would not, under all circumstances, pledge himself to adhere to the present law, for he thought that was a course inconsistent with the duty he owed his Sovereign and his country. He did not say that because he contemplated a change.—(" Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) The Hon. Member said that there were two courses—either to maintain the pre sent law or to repeal it. As for the fixed duty, he thought it would be impossiole for the Government to maintain that. He (Sir R. Peel) thought whenever the present corn-laws were repealed—whenever that revolution took place in the present system of corn-laws, he (Sir Robert Peel) would not be the supporter of it. He said now, as he said last session, that though he would not think it consistent with his public duty, he would not conciliate support by en gaging to adhere, under all circumstances, to a par ticular law he repealed, he did not contemplate any altera tion in the present law. The price of corn since the operation of the present law—( Renewed cries of " Hear, hear," from the Conservative benches)—the price of corn since the ope ration of the present law was as fixed as at any former period. Let them look to the price of corn for the last 4 or 5 years, and its variati.ms. He held in his hand a list of the prices of corn for the last 54 years—since 1790—the average price of wheat was 50s. Id. In 7 years of that period the average price of wheat was less than during the last four or five years. He thought the present law had operated favourably. He hoped that the general state of the country would justify the expectations re garding it in the Queen's speech. Trade had revived in some of its most important branches. It should be remembered that great changes were made in the commercial policy of this country in the year 1843. When he (Sir R. Peel) last year stated in that House that there were indications of the improvement of trade, his observations were scouted with derision—that nothing could be greater or more hopeless than the depression. The iron trade was still in a depressed state, but he hoped the consumption of that article in branches of manufactures in which it was much used would cause its im provement. With respect to the revenue he would not pourtray its condition in bright colours. In the present year the usual deficiency had been avoided, and there was amply sufficient to meet existing charges.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped the Go vernment had met Parliament under improved circumstances. --(Crier of " Hear, hear," from both sides of the House. ) Looking to their foreign policy they had not adjusted all the questions of difference in the United States, but they had re moved those immediate obstructions to a good understanding which two years ago threatened the relations of amity between the two countries. In France, without a concession of either Government, he was justified in stating that a friendly under standing between the countries had been established ; that friendly understanding would be mutually advantageous to them in every quarter of the globe in which their interests weree concerned. He hoped that that de pression which caused so much suffering among the working classes—would at last be converted into grow- ing prosperity. There still existed in many parts of the country distress which they could not view without sympathy. He hoped they had been justified in stating that they (the Government had fulfilled their duty, and that they had met Parliament after having fulfilled the promises which they made, and the prospects which they held out, and that they had not been wanting in their duty to the Sovereign er to the country. The Right Hots. Baronet resumed his seat amidstgreat cheering. Lord PALMERSTON said he had viewed with great satis faction some of the announcements made. It was very grati fying to learn that the distress which continued so long and so severely was beginning to disappear—that the revenue was beginning to recover, and, with the addition of the income-tax, was likely to exceed the expenditure. Whether these results would have happened earlier from the measures which the Govern. ment, of which he (Lord P.) had been a Member, had proposed was another question. —( Laughter from the Ministerial benches. ) He would imitate the example of those who had preceded him, reduced. to in not referring t o th e state o f I re l an d. H e cou ld not but remark upon th e dil emma w hi c h hi s N o bl e F r i en d an d the Hon. Memberst was o n said that sidehat n of e the was House fora wale fixed duty corn, and anoth er f or l evy i ng a duty upon all corn pro d uce d a t home. If the latt er was a d m i tted, i t was sa id w h y no t abolish all custom s d u ti es . B ut there was no i ncons i s t ency .said d to yo havenforeign been I whatever—they levied duties on the importation of many articles coming from abroad, and there would not be any in consistency in imposing a duty on corn coming from abroad without imposing a duty on corn produced at home. The doc trine of the Right Hon. Baronet was much more extensive than they were aware of. They were for an indirect duty, and no good reason had been shown why foreign corn should not be subjected to an indirect taxation as well as other commodities. He participated in the general satisfaction at the successful termination of the opera tions in Canton, and which had been so satisfactory in their results. A treaty had been laid on the table, by which he was glad to perceive that all the privileges which had been granted to England had been extended to every other country in the world ; that was a very wise and fitting condition. Whether the proposition w as ma d e b y t h e E ngl i sh Government, or by the Emperor of China, it was entitled to commendation. Sir ROBERT PEEL—It was a supplementary treaty. Lord PALMERSTON—No man could feel more strongly than himself the desirableness of continuing on terms of amity between this country and France, and which would prove mutually advantageous. (Hear, hear. ) It had been lately stated in the French Chambers by one of the greatest Ministers that country ever had, that between the years 1830 and 1836 there was a most cordial union between that country and England, and the effect of that union had had a most material tendency in preserving the peace of the world. They were constantly taunted during that period of six years— certainly not by the Right Hon. Baronet, at the head of the Government, nor by the Honourable Members at that moment immediately surrounding him, but by persons of that party to which he then belonged and with which he was now acting, with being subservi,nt to the policy of France. He ( Lord Palmerston) stated, whenever that unmerited reproach was made, that that alliance would last as long as the interests and policy of the two countries, real or supposed, were identical ; and that when those interests, real or imaginary, were no longer identical, whenever they began to diverge, the alliance would at once become less cordial. The interests of the two countries had become less identical, not because England had parted from France, but because France choosing, as she had a full right to do, to change her views, the policy of the two countries necessarily became divergent. But he must say that in that transaction in which divergence became most apparent, the course which England pursued was the same which she had marked out for herself long before, and which she had steadily followed out with the co-operation of France. Their course of policy from the first was to rescue Europe from the dangers which threatened her from the un happy state of Syria. England never had any selfish objects in view, and if she had had the misfortune to differ with France, she at least differed from her along with the other Powers. Glad was he now to find that the coldness and irritation which succeeded those events had disappeared, and that now a cor dial and complete understanding existed between the two countries. He could not, however, avoid expressing some re grets that the results of this cordial understanding were not in all respects the same which so strongly and happily marked the union of the two countries on the former occasion. The re sults which followed the good understanding between France and England, from the years 1830 to 1836, were, he was proud to say, conducive to the interests of liberty and happi ness of mankind in general. The result of that understanding was, first, that Belgium was rescued from being subdued and annexed by force to the Netherlands. The next result was that Portugal was freed from the despotism of Don Miguel, and admitted to the enjoyment of free and constitutional govern ment. The next result was, that Spain enjoyed the inestima ble advantages of popular institutions ; and another advantage of that alliance was, that the two nations laid aside their jealousies as maritime Powers, and agreed upon those treaties of 1831 and 1833, which, by conceding the right of search, aimed the most effectual blow in putting down the slave trade. Now, if he looked at what might probably be the result of the present union between the two countries, he was sorry to say he could not see, nor dare he hope to see, fruit of the same kind. He saw—whether in consequence or not remained to be proved—he saw in Spain, that that person, who, by the admis sion of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite ( Sir 11. Peel), had been the main cause of peace and the chief preventive of anarchy—he saw him expelled the country, popular liberty suspended, military license triumphant, and Spain governed by proclamations instead of by law.—( Hear, hear.) That was the state of Spain. He greatly feared that another result of this alliance would be, that the progress which had been made towards the suppression of the slave trade would be interfered with. That, indeed, those treaties which had produced this progress were about to be rt?scinded; and be would tell the Right lion. Baronet and his colleagues, that if they were done away with, a great blow would be givr , n, and a great injure inflicted GU the general interests of burnanity.—( Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had adverted to the fact of the treaty which was sigiL•el last sear between England and the United States, as having roulorod all causes of pres(ult inisunderstanding, and facilitated most materially tin, settle ment of others. He (Loral Palmerston) regretted to say that he could not see, in the last speech of the President of the . , United Stole?, when speaking of the Oregon territory, aus manifestation whatever of that feeling of concilia+io❑ and go-d will which they were so positively assured was to he the result of the treaty of last year.—( Hear, hear.) He saw exactly the same language with regard to the Oregon territot as they had been accustomed to see with respect to the North-Eastern boundary—the same talk of arms—the same advice to establish military posts.—( Hear, hear.) Ile could not, therefore, Lut fear that the same arguments which had been successful with England, in regard to the North-Eastern territory, would be used by America, and expected to prevail in regard to the territory on the shores of the Pacific. In February, 1842, it would be in the recollection of Hon. Members the ,peech from the throne announced. that Government was in negotiation with several Powers, which it was tiusted would lead to conventions founded on just principles, and which would lead to great commercial advantages to all parties. Now they had never yet heard who were these several Powers, nor what was the result of these negotiations. It might hu presumed, however, that amongst the Powers thus alludNl to were France, the United States, Portugal, Spain, and Brazil. Ile (Lord Pahnerston) believed that with none of those Powers had con ventions been concluded. 'I hev perhaps would hear, if not that night, then in the course of the session, what were these negotiations, and what were the results of them. They knew that with the United States the determination _of the English Government to maintain the sliding scale forbade success to any negotiation—they knew that wih Portugal negotiations had not succeeded—they knew nothing likely was to be done in Spain—they knew there had been negotiations with Brazil, and questions might probably be asked, negotiations being at an end, why they had not there been successful? They had indeed been informed that the cause of the want of success was this—that the British Government said they were prepared to admit Brazilian sugar, the product of free labour, but not sugar the produce of tree labour ; and, consequently, that slavery in that country must be abolished, or at all events considerably modified. The offer of the British Government might have been made in good faith, but if it was, then it showed little knowledge of the feelings, habits, and prejudices of the Brazilians. He (Lord Palmerston) would as soon think of asking English gentlemen to ab 6 ish the corn-laws, as expect to see the Brazilian Government abo lish slavery. The one was just as likely as the other. Ru mours had prevailed of the intention of Government to pro pose some considerable ameliorations ef the criminal law. If such intention did prevail, they might reasonably have ex pected some allusion to it in the speech from the throne. To it, however, he could offer no objection, for instead of pledging them to so many things, as supposed by the Hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume), it pledged no one to anything. In deed, there was nothing in it, and, therefore, he should give his vote for the address in answer to it, and against the amend ments which had been submitted to the House.—( Hear.) Mr. ROEBUCK said the debate of that evening presented a most erraordinary spectacle. He had always learned to be lieve that tho time for the proper consideration of the subjects which had only been hinted at was upon the occasion of making an address to the Crown. But the Noble Lord the Member for London (Lord John Russell) had taken to the error that an address to the Crown was a mere form, and that sentiment had been re-echoed by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, so tfiat s they were to understand that the bu siness for which they had met there was merely to listen to two speeches delivered by gentlemen in somewhat extra ordinary dresses, and that such was to be the sum and substance of that night's debate. Ought it to be believed that at the moment when the very union was threatened that nothing was to be said on that matter or on other questions of vital policy ? For at that moment they must all know that the danger was imminent of a dissolution of the union. They could not escape from that danger, and yet at that precise moment were they called on by the leaders on both sides of the Ilouse to be silent on the subject. Did that become the position of parties in Parliament, did it become the position of the Ministry, to be utterly silent, callous as it were, in such anxious and vital cir cumstances, to the happiness and prosperity of the two countries? There were at present two particular questions which deeply interested and agitated the two countries ; the one the corn laws, and the other the legislative union between England and Ireland. And both these questions by both sides of the House were consigned to entire oblivion, —( Cries of " No, no.") He thought great danger would accrue to the union by the course of conduct which the House chose to adopt that night. —( Hear, hear). He thought that the House was playing O'Connell's card, when it allowed the report to go to Ireland that it suffered the present proceedings in that country to pass without comment.—(Cheers). They were doing all they could to effect the separation of the two countries in passing over altogether the question which agitated all Ireland from end to end.—( Hear, hear). O'Connell would say that the House had done more for him in passing over these questions in silence, than he could have effected for himself.—( Hear.) Whatever might be the result, upon the Noble Lord the Member for London must rest the sole responsibility, because he stood forward as the great leader of the Liberal party in this country, of passing over those two great questions, the repeal of the cern-laws and the repeal of the union.— ( Cheers). He (Mr. Roebuck) was obliged to put aside the substantive motion which he had intended to bring forward respecting the grievances of the people. He did not at all agree in the opinion I I that the trials in Dublin would he affected by the discussion which he had proposed to bring forward. But he was obliged to postpone his purpose, because he was deserted by the great body of the Liberal party in that House. Lord HOWICK did not think that the Hon. Gentleman who bad just sat down had rightly represented the opinions of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, or of his Noble Friend who sat near him. He (Lord Howick) did not think that because the House did not enter into a discussion of all the topics which might be alluded to in the speech, the address was a mere form. It would be very inconvenient on the occasion of moving the address to enter into the discussion of a great num ber and variety of topics.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had said, and said truly, that the present state of Ireland was highly momentous. But he would ask the Hon. Gentleman whether it would be convenient to take up the discussion of these two great questions, the corn-laws and Ow union, in a debate upc7n the address ?—( Hear, hear.) The Queen's speech was of great use in laying before the House the general topics of the session. But if the House was to go into a discussion of each of these, it would be a useless waste of time, since the subjects must come before them one by one in a more tangible form.—( Hear, hear.) When, therefore, the Hon. and Learned Member said that in voting the address without the discussion of those subjects, they were consigning the grievances of Ireland and the corn-laws to obli vion, he had most grossly misapprehended both the Right Hon. Gentleman and Ihis Noble Friend.—( Hear, hear. ) On the part of his Noble Friend and himself, he would say that not one moment should be lost in bringing before the House both these topics. At the same time he must express his most entire concurrence in what had been said on both sides of the House, that it would be most inconvenient to bring forward those questions respecting Ireland during the present trial.—( Hear, hear.) It would be impossible to discuss the measures which were necessary to I give peace to that unhappy country, the objects of the present trials, the policy of the Government, and the manner in which the prosecution had been conducted. Could they enter into a discussion of that description without appearing in that House to be making speeches which would be addressed, not so much to Ulse House as to the jury which were to try the case ?—( Hear.) It was an evil, unavoidable in trials of this description, that they enlist political feeling, and there was in Ireland no evil greater than the effect of political feeling upon the administra tion of justice.—( Hear, hear.) 3 hat was the curse of Ireland—( Loud cheers)—and would it be wise to make the jury-box now, more than ever, the scene of party warfare ?—( Cheers.) No; but he trusted that when the trials were concluded, his Noble Friend would bring these subjects before the House ; and he trusted that the House would see the necessity of taking measures, before too late, to rescue Ireland from the danger with which that country and the nation were threatened.—(Cheers.) As to the corn-laws, he thought the question too large to be discussed on an occasion like the present ; yet he could not help remarking upon what had fallen upon this subject from the Hon. Bart. opposite. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that he would not con sent to a fixed duty for the sake of revenue, and he made that declaration in such a manner as to render a compromise be tween the two parties impossible.—( Hear, hear.) Whether the Right Hon. Gentleman was a good friend to the agricul turists, or was consulting their interests in making such a compromise impossible, it was not for him to say; but he thought that the time for compromise was not yet gone by. When the lion. Gentleman, and those who acted with him, came to that determination, they reduced the question to this: " Are we to maintain the cern •laws, or is the importation of corn to be free.—(Cheers.) That was the state to which the ques tion was now brought.--( Cheers.) And whenever it was brought to an issue he (Lord Howick) would adhere to the opinions which he had avowed since he first set foot in that House in Parliament, and on the hustings, in a purely agri cultural county, in favour of the free importation.—(Cheers.) After the opinions which the Right lion. Baronet had expressed it would be idle for those upon the Opposition side of the present flouse of Commons to make any proposition for a fixed duty. But if the' Right lion. Gentleman should hereafter re-consider his opinion and give them the offer of a compromise, he (Lord Howick) for one would gladly close with the offer.—( Hear, hear.) Before he sat down, he must express his cordial con currence in those principles of foreign policy to which the Bight Hon. Baronet had given expression. He believed that there was no greater curse to the world, to civilisation, and humanity, than the carrying on in every court in Europe, a petty struggle between a so-called French and English party. --(Hear.) He abominated the whole system.—(Cheers.) Ho thought that we ought to abstain from giving advice to other nations as to the mode of their carrying on their own affairs.—( Hear, hear.) When our Minister ventured to give his advice to the Court at which he represented us, he grow, by little and little, more exasperated against those whom he could not influence, and more attached to the party which ap peared to yield to his counsel. In nine cases out of ten where this conduct was pursued, two factions were raised—a French faction and an English faction; and the unfortunate country became the prey of both.—( Great cheering.) He cordially agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet in depre cating that sort of interference, and he could not help object ing to one expression made use of by his Noble Friend, the Member for Tiverton, in adverting to the affairs of Spain. " The late Regent had fallen from power, and the state of things was such as one could hardly describe as a military despotism." Now he (Lord Howick) concurred with his Noble Friend in regretting what had recently occurred in that country. But at the canoe time he rejoiced that the Right Hon. Baronet and the French Government had abstained from taking any part in those affairs._( Cheers.) He hoped that the people of Spain would settle their own affairs without any interference, for he thought that was the only way in which they could return to a state of security of person and property.—( Hear, hear.) He did not mean on that occasion to pursue the topic further, but from had what fallen from gentlemen on both sides, he did not think he could have abstained from troubling the House so far. —(Cheers.) Mr. WYSE could not allow it to go abroad, that the repre sentatives of Ireland were insensible to the condition in which the country stood at present, or that they would lose any op portunity of expressing their indignation at the condition in which it was at present placed, and their anxiety about the dangers to which it was exposed, or that they shrank from the expression of their opinions on one side or the other. They did not wish to throw any obstacle in the way of justice, or to interfere with the sacredness of the jury-box ; but, at the same time, he, fur one, was determined not to allow that debate to pass over without expressing his opinion that all the questions connected with the present pro ceedings in Ireland should be gone into on the earliest occa sion. Ho went home to his constituents with the statement that nothing had been done for Ireland but a Bill of Pains and Penalties, and he came back to that House with feelings of still greater exasperation and indignation. The result of the course which Government was pursuing would be, to leave only two parties in Ireland, whose animosity to each other would be more bitter than ever had been known even in that country. The question was now raised, whether the future rule of Ireland was to be in the spirit of judicial tyranny or as a close corporation ? The O'CONOII DON entirely concurred in what had fallen from his /lon. Friend the Member for Waterford, Anti he wished it to he understocd that it he concurred in the ad dress they would take the opportunity of bringing the attention of the House to the grievances of I reland. ?-41 P. 3 Mr. MILNER GIBSON wished to explain in a few word why he would vote for the amendment of his Hon: Friend. The proposition of his Huu. Friend was simply this. He wished the majority of that House to redress the :S , .` grievances of the people at the same. tinle that theyi . ''-J` f3r the expendiiure cf the Stz-te glad t 3. find th a t the Right Honatwable Gentjemareat the head of the Gov ernmen t bad taken the ad. ice of the 'N'oble - 71 4:4, '— Lord the P.leinbur for London, an d th a t h e h a d g i ven a pledge LIAT 11(1t to maintain the existin g ) Ile (Mr. Gibson) drew the ii,ferenee from the speech of the Right lion. Gentleman, that he would not yield to any unreasonable re quest from the agriculturists to pliadee himself to m a i n tain the protective system. They could plainly see in the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that when he intended to maintain any particular line of policy that he would pledge himself to maintain that policy. They saw that he would pledge himself to maintain the legislative union between England and Ireland. lie (Mr. Gibson) knew perfectly well that neither the Right Hon. Baronet, nor any other Minister in the present state of the country, would authorise a speech which pledged the Go vernment to maintain a protective policy ; or that any Minister addressing the House upon his general views would do any thing more than say "at the present particular moment I have • rio measure to submit to the consideration of Parliament." The itight lion. Baronet had taken a most judicious course. He had left this an open question.—( Oh, oh.) Ile had pledged himself to no longer a period than a month. lie had said that if the abolition of the corn-laws were to take place within a month it would be most disastrous to the country. Ile (3.1 r. Gibson) defied the Ri it eht lion. Baronet, or arty other Minister, to stand up in his place that evening, and say in so many words, " I will maintain the existing corn laws." He (Mr. Gib-on) was glad the Right lion. Gentleman had taken that course, because he differed in some measure with his Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose, that it was desirable that the Right Hon. liaronet should pledge himself on the question—especially if he pledged himself to maintain the protective system.—( Laughter.) Knowing the authority the Right Honourable Gentleman was in the country—know ing the great consequence attached by the occupying tenantry to any distinct enunciation by the Right Hon. Baronet with respect to this question. If he were to do so the pro prietor of the land would say to the occupying tenant, You may have faith that protection will be maintained—you may agree to pay higher rents—you ma y contract safely to take leases at higher rents, for the Right Hon. Gentleman will never give way." That would be the course taken by the landed proprietors if any distinct pledge were to be given by her Majesty's Government. He (Mr. Gibson) hoped the oc cupying tenantry of the country would see how unstable a foundation they had in former times rested upon. Ile hoped they would see hew dangerous it was to place faith in any re. presentation that protection would be maintained. He ( Mr. Gibson) would take the advice given by Honourable Gentlemen around him, and not trespass longer on the attention of the House, as there would be other opportunities of discussing these important ques tions. But he hailed with great satisfaction the movement whirls the Hon. Gentlemen opposite had taken upon themselves to conduct, in support of the protective system. He thought it quite right, if they believed that the protective system was for the benefit of the labouring classes or the great body of the industrial community, that they should express their opinions in public, and all he asked of them was to confine themselves to rational argument and to intelligent reasoning, and not allow themselves to be betrayed into abusive and discreditable language.—( Cheers rind laughter.) The use of such language could not be justified on any side in the discussion of public questions. lie could only say that if ever he had been guilty of it himself he would be very happy to express his sorrow for having been so betrayed. All lie desired was that that this question should be discussed, by the two great inte rests of the community in a rational and intelligent spirit ; and he believed that if it were continued in that spirit, the landed proprietors would see that a system of free trade was more conducive to the commercial and manufacturing interest than one of restriction ; and that if free trade were to be adopted, the landed proprietors themselves would share in the general pros perity which would accrue to the country at large. Sir R. PEEL thought it was hardly necessary for him to answer the Hon. Gentleman. Ile apprehended the Hon. Gentleman meant to be facetious, because be was himself smil ing. The lion. Gentleman had said that he ( sir R. Peel) was the advocate of the abolition, within a month, of all pro. tection to agriculture. That he (Sir Robert Peel) had said was that if such a measure was carried within a month nothing but disorder and confusion would ensue.—(Cheers. The Hen. Gentleman said that all he (Sir R. Peel) had said en the subject of the corn-laws was that he was not prepared to consent to a repeal of the corn-laws within a month. What he had really said—and the House would recollect it, was that the Government intended to propose no alteration, and that if they had intended any alteration it would have been mentioned. The Government had never contemplated any alteration, and they did not then contemplate any alteration. He said he believed that every man who well considered the duty of a Minister of this country who proposed to conciliate support, would see that on the part of the Government, in matters relating to the imposition of a duty not involving a great public principle, he could not involve an eternal principle. Mr. PL UMPIRE confessed that after the speech of the Hon. Member for Manchester he would not have been satis fied. But after the explanation of the Right Mon. Baronet he felt perfect satisfaction. Ile represented an agricultural con stituency, and he felt convinced that the speech of the Right lion. Baronet would prove perfectly satisfactory to them. He could assure Hen. Gentlemen opposite that they would never succeed in putting down the agricultural interest by clamour and combination. He trusted the Government would be firm in their determination to uphold the agricultural interest, for if it were once injured every other great interest of the country mast suffer. - c,r4 Mr. BROTHERTON said, that although he intended to vote with his Hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale, he wished to guard himself against the supposition that he intended to cuter into a compact against the granting of the supplies. He would never do so, because he believed that such means would never attain the object they had in view. He bad lately been waited upon by members of his own constituency, who had called upon him to enter his opposition to the granting of the supplies. His answer to them was, were he to grant their request, they themselves would be the first to turn round and condemn him for having done se. They would discern that a small minority were wasting the whole of the session in useless divisions against the majority, while the grievances of the people remained unconsidered. He could never agree to such a course as that. With respect to what had fallen from the Hon. Seconder of the address, he (Mr. Brotherton) was ready to admit that improvement had taken place in some of the branches of our manufactures ; but in making that ad mission, he must say that there was every reason to expect that that improvement could not continue. He must confess that he did not draw the same inference from the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet as the Hon. Member for Manchester. He fully understood the cheer which followed the declaration of the Right Hon. Baronet, that a fixed duty would not be pro posed by him. The country would coon see who were their mas ters. Ihe landed interest would press them to starvation point, and then, relaxing a little, would save them from'actual death. It was clear the Right lion. Bart. intended to keep up the sliding scale. If it should please Providence to afflict us with another bad harvest, what would be the condition of the peo ple? Were the landed proprietors determined to keep up their protection at the expense of the lives of the people? He. while he had the power, would use every endeavour to get rid of this law, which was a disgrace to the statute book. He saw the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln present. Now, he had read in a newspaper, that at a meeting where he was present they talked of the League, and the language used by them ; but it was said that if Mr. Cobden came to Lincoln shire they should throw him into the river.—(Laughter.) Was not that holding out a premium for assassination ?—( A laugh.) Were men to be threatened with being drowned when they went to a place for the purpose of doing good ? Now, there was a Mr. Chaplin, a great landed proprietor, he was in possession of upwards of 20,090 acres of land, which within the present century was not worth Is. an acre, and now it was worth 255., and yet that individual wanted protection.— (Hear, hear.) What protection, he would ask, had the poor man ? None.—( Hear, hear.) It had been attempted to be shown that he had protection, that protection was given to the farmer and labourer, but neither one nor the other had been shown.—( Hear, hear.) And now the landed class clung to protection because it was beneficial to them. He felt no doubt that the people would feel the injustice of these things,, and would so be enabled to put an end to them. Mr. VILLIERS and Mr. MUNTZ rose together, but the latter gave way, and Mr. Villiers proceeded to address the House :—He felt greatly indebted to his Hon. Friend, the Member for Montrose, for moving the amendment he had done. He had mentioned the subject to him, and his (Mr. Villiers'-)' only reason for either not seconding the motion or moving it was that it was his intention to bring the corn-laws before the House in a distinct form.—( Hear, hear.) He must confess that he did not altogether think the mode adopted by the Hon. Member for Montrose the most efficient mode of bringing so important a subject before the House.—(Hear, hear.) The constitnericies had had the subject most ably and faithfully dise cussed before them, and they ought to have an opportunity of asking their Members which way they intended to vote. Thia subject had been brought under the attention of the consti tuency by a great combination of intelligence, worth, and in fluence, but no fair discussion had been taken on the subject in that House.—( Hear.) Indeed he felt that this question must be discussed out of doors, and, in fact, carried there, before it could be carried in that House.—( Hear, hear.) And if there was any doubt upon that subject that doubt had been removed by what had taken place that night ; because the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government had shown that he felt lie could not maintain the present system or abandon ir.—( hear, hear.) That was the situation Of the question. Those who took independent views of the question felt it was not tenable or consistent with the interests of the people. '1 he Right Hon. Baronet felt that by the principles of the Constitution he could net abandon it. The !Noble Lord, then Member for the City of London,had said, in se many words that it was necessary for the landed interest and the aristocracy, and that they had a direct interest in the question.—( Hear.) Since the revolution of 1768 the aristocracy had governed the country. The Government was not the Government of the Queen, but the Minister was the Minister of the landed pro prietors ; they it was who governed the co un t r y.—(H ear . ) It was not, therefore, to be wondered at that the Right Hon. Baronet would not alter a law which he knew if he did he would not be safe in his place in the Government for a month, or a week, or a day ; in short, that his Government would be at an end the moment he abandoned a system from which the people suffered so much, and the landed proprietors received such benefits.—(Hear, hear.) The protective policy was the most important question that could be agitated in this country; it was the question upon which everything must turn in the country, for it effected the physical condition of the people in every respect.—( Hear, hear.) The present protective system could net be maintained consistently with the good of the people of the country. He thought it did not become the Right Hon. Baronet to countenance demonstrations against the proceedings of the Anti-Corn-law League in order to en. deavour to persuade the people that the repeal of the corn laws would be injurious to them. He had read a work in the Foreign and Colonial Review, in which he believed the Right Hon. the President of the Board of Trade, had some share. The Government were cl a i m i ng pra i se f or the improvement of the general condition of the country ; but s hat were the causes of the fluctuation that had taken place in that condition they were not told. Now the whole of the question was handled in the work he] had alluded to, which had been just put forth. which was a consideration of the commercial policy of the pre sent Government in lowering the duties and the tariff. It was in that work viewed under five heads : —lts effects on trade ; on increased demand for manufactures ; increased demand for employment ; its effect on shipping ; and its effect on agricul ture ; and in that work the very arguments held out by tboee who were advocates for free trade were prominently put forth. It was said it was impossible to have free trade and protective duties ; this very work proved that by free trade the people would have cheaper clothing, cheaper dwellings, and cheaper every thing, if they had free tvlde ;Te t r Z ue: hear.) This work stated that its effects ontrade and inere w ased trade. tion of duty, increased consumption , That in every respect increased co,rnsmumautifoatcituorfeforeignarti cles in led to increased demand fi creased demand trade ; thatits effectfor employmentoz shippin g w w ei a u s ld to b i e nc i r n c e a r s e r ase th d e b fo y m f i r gn ee trade, and also the demand for ships; and its elect on agri culture was the importation of cattle ; and that an extensive I improvement in trade would follow, and be participated in by agriculturists. These were the sentheenta that had been put forth rmiler the especial patronage, he believed, of the Presi dent of the Board of Trade. That Right Hon. Gentleman. last session, had been charged with gelds, the author of a pat ticu!ar article in this Review, and he did not deny it. Now was nut this, he would a s k, t r ifli ng w i t h t h e people? Thet I population of this country was increasing at a Rightful rate. ion al I li )n- ies. ad )ed f its rts, rob na cod nu the leir her ja 1' Ala rd s. - .