The Sun. — London, England, 1803-03-22 00:00:00

PARL,IAME yOUSE OFTEERB. dONAAY, w aca 2x. Cotawszt were fOrther heard relative .to the Scotch Appeal, Crawford ae. po!itts, Piz. the Lotto ,ADVOCAyeB, in continuation, .on the part of the Appallant.—After which the .furtletr hearing was deferred tilLto r tnoreow. The fOrther consideration of the case of Lloyd Grady was pciatponed till tomorrow. • The various Bills before the House were fora warded in their respective ; stages. The' Committee on the' Irish Chalking Bill was, We under Stand, Postponed t.: 4 ;1 Friday. 'lt Earl of CARLISLE rose to bring forward Lis prOmised' Motion relative to the Artificers in His Majesty's , Dock Yards : His Lordship prefaced it with st few general observations, referring to the teeeesaity which existed in the present situation of the Countey, for Parliament to be informed upon certain points respelling the contlet of that most important branch of the Governrnent, to which the aubjea of the Motion related, On a due admi. oistration of the affairs of that - Department, the ,security „of the Country, in the present state of :ffhits, in .0. 'great degree depended. • The infor -motion called far by the Motion, was important, the Noble 'Earl .observed, as forming the ground. 01 other . propositions, 'which, perhaps, he should find it necessary to bring forward. He then repeated :ionic of his for:Tier observatiens respelling the generaleonduca of Ministers; who, he seemed to say, were, not yet .fairly tried.; when they were, it would then appear how far they:enjoyed that.con fdenee of which they boasted. After some further eotneuent on these topics, the Noble Earlonoved to the following effed That the proper Officers Ao lay before this :House, a Monthly Return Of all the Artificers employed in His IVJajesty's Dock yards, from he Month of May, t§oz, to the pre_ period." Lord 11013 roseond expressed hit opinion, that the House ought not to agreeto a Motion of s u c h a pe _ ealiar trata rennd importance,w ithout hearing adequate . grounds and reasons assi;;n4i for its adoption, Not ooe, he contended, had been advanced by the Noble Earl. His Lordship seemed to regret the absence of .the..Vohle arl at the bead of the Marine Depart - naeht, who of course possessed a more detailed know_ ledge of:he subje to which the Mntion referred,than 'he could be supposed to possess. With respell to what the Nnhie 'Earl had been ph' tied to advance 'relative to the geeeral condtotl of Ministers, he could only then asooe him generally, that these Ministers always held it their duty, and had so aaed, to du that vhich they 'firmly'believed yeould most con.. epee to the real:interests of their country, and so ;piing, they were secure of its confidence. The Noble Earl .!hid spoken'of the trial of Ministers, but let Ilea trial come on when it may; he, for one, not apprdlCllslY6 of its result, He was sure that Parliarnent Aid sufficient grounds for 'judging of ;Ministers, by their condult, and the candull of 'Paha:tient had as clearly manifested its sense of their merits. He then vindicated, in general terms, the eharaaet and conduft of the Noble Earl at the head of the' Admiralty, against every imputation ; I:id he must believe tbsit that character stood as J in rite opinion as.ever, - until he heard that stnuethinz like a specific charge seas urged eaainst insinuathies were of no weight with 'him ? , until specific darges were made.. isle hid every right to ptesurne: that there was pOthing in the administration of the important De. pi:tumor in question, that called for an inquiry to be set on foor ; end with !weft to the 'particular Motion then hefore the Hotise, he hell it his duty 1 . 6 resists it, uniik he should hear adequate reasons assigned for its adoption. : . 40t1 of CAW ISLE in reply, observed, that the thioft was so sirople in itselfi 'and he ;had so lainly..stated the objell of the Motion, that lie did not think it necessary. in thelirst instance to take up their Lordshipa' time. He contended, that rarlisrpent Should have every 4c 4 ree ef information which could be'attained without dangerous come. quencesto the real interests of the Country. No. thing could tie further from his Intention-than to offer : any personal imputatiort.aglin'st the Noble Earl, or disteslielt towards him,' On the contrary, no mat 'in that House could more highly value that 'Noble Lord's services than he did; He felt the obligations which the Country owed to Earl Sr. VINCENT; Rod no man tould mote duly appreciate Ilia great and eminent services. Bur,, on the other hand, the . more -especially on such, a ' crisis as the present, he had tri consider his own duty as a Mem ber of Piirliament. The Noble Lord in - goes. tion -was to be ,regarded as a pplAie character, and it, was essential that the management 'of the Af 'cairn of the Department river Which that Noble Lord presider? { should be such as to meet the present ex igency. - of' affairs. . Its' vigour and alertness, his Lordship seemed sal say, should be such 33 to enable us•to meet the French off Brest. He must be al lowtti to entertain his own tiOubtsi ?tnd to observe, ~that even •genetaily, in the public mind, some .existed with texatd to the management of the affairs of the Adusiralty, at Vas important it should he JI known hoW Ministers had aded in these- respells during the sununer, and -at a time when they Were alteruately arming arid disarMing, - and Whether the other measto us of Ministers at home were commen. our: , te to their conduet abioad. In this view, he thought it was iacuMbent on MinisterS to afford informaiion. He had, at - first,eno wish to urge the Motion, but entereaked an idea of NVithdrilWill; it; hat Wh4 . .i'lla' r iased, he had his doubts with reseeet to the f): 9 6Oriety of such 3 prt)CCedillg. I'IPC Lotto CHeareveooli then put, the ques. ' tioo• , LQrd GRENVILLI .I?o,llei.l i leav4 to" ()fret his advice to his Noble Frief , d, 'namely that.on the resent occasion, he' would vithdrew th'e Motion, lowevq, should lie be compriled. to give a vote, he would dolt •on the ground pf his having b ear d no argument whatever i'or its 'reieeliona In a moment like the present, he should be Eprry that' any thing 4110Uld Coale from those with whom - he agreed opiili(.4.l—even • a • motion •in that House, throw any thing like embar wsment,• on the contlud of the !:".irg's servants. ferred,. it was one s he thought, into which inquiry ,should be instituted at a proper time. Its conse quence of the line ofcondua adopted by Ministers. for the last 18 months, for some time past, their responsibility was great beyond all former precedent, inasmuch as they had afforded 'no aatisfaaory in formation to Parliament, nor explained any part of their condat whatever: They had seen measures &one and undone, adopted and altered, and Par liament called.upon to vote large• Estimates, merely on grounds of supposed notoriety. Ministers and the Country were now so circurastanced, that he wish- , e 4 it might not be said with truth, that those with whom he acted, had done any thing tending to throw difficulties in their way ; there 'would be fu ture opportunities for discussion, and: on these grounds it -was that he requested his NOble Friend to withdraw his Moti6n for the present. The Earl of CARLISLE, in a few words, ex- . pressed his acquiescence in the proposition of his Ntible Friend, but at the, same time observed, that no well-founded objeEtions had been offered against • cord PELHAM expressed his .opinion, that Motion like that in question should not, be agreed to, except distina and adequate 'reasons were assigned for its adoption, and specific grounds urged - for go ing into the inquiries alluded to. He perfettlY agreed in what had fallen from his Noble Friend, that nothing had been suggested,by . the Noble Earl, in reference•to the Naval Department, that constituted suflicient ground for inquiry ; he should not, there fore, at present enter into that line of discussion. With respea to the point of which so much had been said,, the •conduCt of Ministers, that, with a re ference to the peculiar circumstances of the Coon. try, Svould at a proper period be a fair ground for. • inquiry. Bur it was the cOosolation of His Ma_ . jesty'a present Ministers, that -with a reference to the existing circumstances of the Country, their condua bad been such, as they conceived to be most conducive to the honour and the interests, of the Nation. - On that ground it had been satisfattory to themselves, and had been . , sanClioned by Parlia ment ; in that line of condo& theY would persevere,' nor would they be drawn from it by any taunts which may be thrown out against them. With re- speet to Motions of such a nature as the present, he expressed his hole: that the House would .not countenance a sudden investigation at any time,. without 'adequate grounds being previously as. signed. Lod GRENrILLE in explanation observed, :that IVlinisters could-not consistently be said to rely' • on the.confidence of ParliaMent and the Country ; as they uniformly withheld all knowledge and infor illation whereby either could rightly judge of their condo& They had gone on arming and diSarming, without condescending to let the Public know the circumstances which warranted such contradiaory • •• and opposite measures.. Lord HOB ART, in reply, observed, that it was with Parliament alone to draw such conclusions; the conduct of which, had plainly indicated how far it approved of the conduct - of Ministers. Since their accession to,OlEce two very. great 'and impor. rant political measures had been completed, namely, the Peace with the Northern Powers, 'and the sub sequent Peace vs ids France. The- unanimous aPpro.: 'ration which both thesetheasures met with was un preCedented in the annals of Parliament. Lord GRENVILLE shortly observed, that there circumstances had no application whatever to the points in question,, which referred only to the con. duet of Ministers during. the last 18 'months. The, Earl of CARL Ist. a spoke Shortly irl farther explanation. The LORD CHANCELLOR - quitted the Wool Sack, and after noticing the tenor of the Motion, 'observed that the Noble Earl's ten Plaining. that. no reasons were given , why the ,Motion should not be agreed to, appeared to him a little extraordinary, as Ire had always understood, that when Motions of that kind were made, it was necessary that some reasons should be given for their adoption. , The subsequent conduit of the Noble Earl appeared to him to be equally extraordinary. After having proposed the Motion without assigning any reason why it should be adopted, he'noVe contents himself with withdrawing it, because he had beard no reasons fort rejeCti?ns. The Noble and Learned Lord then pro. .ceeded to enforce the objeaions offered by the, Peers on the Ministerial Bench, and added that the Noble Earl had rather inconsistently asserted the objeft of the Motion to be for the curreetion of evils, without condescending to state what those evils were. 'His • Lordship then proceeded successfully to cbudiat the general assertions made by the Peers in t Opoosition, argued the inconsistency 'of their conduft, on their own principles, in judging- the conduCt of Mini. sters, previously to the institution of those in. quirks they .so loudly called tor: The question was , then put, on a proposal from the Noble Earl (Cmt LISLE) • for withdrawing this Motion, and agreed to. Several Bills, mostly of a private or local de. scription wereohan brought up limp the Cosinons,... and read a first time, after which their Lordships adjourned till to-morrow. HOWE OF COIII.II,iNS. MONDAY, MARCH 21. THE Bill for regulating the Offices of Surveyor. General of His Majesty's Forests, was road a se. coed time and comnitttett for to.tnorrotv, LORD GLENDIRVI P moved for leave to bring iu n Bill, for allowing in the Greenland_ Fishery to complete the full. number of men, in certain Ports in the North. Seas.—Leave given. ,Sir F. BURDETT said, he felt it his duty to address the House on the merits of the Pancras Bill, and the manner it• had been prepared, and brought into the Howe, before he should come to the particular object of his Address ; the Parish of Saint Pancras consisted of seven thousand inhabi_ tants, but it so happened, that a few persons who had formed themselves into a seled Vestry, had considered it pettedly justifiable to prepare the till now before the House, contrary co the vnval wish, and cort,currence of the major part i,)f the inhabitants. Several public meetings had bcFn wherein the wisdom of the Bill had been discussed, and not above an hundred inhabitants out of near the con.trary the Bill had niet with the disapproba; don of almost every inhabitant, in the parish ; hovever, as the, Bill hall beep brought into the House, it was now his duty, and the business of the Committee to investigate its merits, but he wished for further time to be granted, in order to give him and others an opportunity of considering many parts of it, as they at present appeared. to him objeetionable. He. therefore moved, that-the. Corn, mittee appointed to sit to-morrow on the Bill in question should be postponed to the 3oth of this month. beluestion being put, Mr. ALEXANDER *laid a few words in favour of the Bill. Mr. DENT • said, be thought ti m e enough bad been ~.allowed for the consideration of the Bill, and the present motion only appeared to him as a Tea. 'Mire to' get rid of it. Mr; HURST, and 'several other Members said a feW words on the question, and Sir FRANcrs re. pealed his remarks on the impropriety of preparing the Bill without the concurrence of a Public Vestry. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw and the House divided ; • For the question . 38 • Against 4 0 After some preliminary remarks, Mr. tOYD moved, that a Committee' be appointed to intuire into so much of the Elefflon Trial MI, as relates to the employment of persons skilled in the art of writing short hand, to take the evidence adduced before such Committees ; that they do consider of the expence occasioned thereby, and' the means 'by which they shall he paid ; and tbat they do report tbe' same, as it shall appear to them, to the House. Ordered, and that such Members as have served, and are now serving upon Elation Committees, be of, thiS Committee. • The Clergy Non-Residence Bill was read a second time, and committed for to-morrow. A Message• from the Lords stated, that they bad agreed to several Bills without any amendment. Mr. Iltvir!a . presented several Accounts, which were ordered to lie on the Table. The MAsTEx of the RoLts gave notice of a Mo tion for leave io bring in a Bill to exempt Rdman Catholics from taking any Oaths but the Oath of Allegiance ; and to entitle them to'the bene fi t of. the Liith of His present Majesty. EAST INDIA ACCOUNTS. The Report of the Committee on Eastandia Ac. counts was taken into further. consideration, The Resolutions were all read and agreed to, without any observation being made on any of them, except the last ; and the question being put upon which, Mr. FRANCIS said, ,he thought it proper, for the staisfaßion of the House, to explain what was meant by the word ; I false,' as applied to the Indian Accounts now before Parliament ; and in doing this, he hoped every Gentleman would put that liberal construaion on the in. . _ tended applidatiop of the word, as was really meant, by the uses of it. When he,,used the word false,' as applying to the accounts before the Home, he did not mean to accuse any Hon." Gentleman of neltiltibe having com ~ .:: least aptrthat would stain his honour: lie a - d only used it to,convcy this meaning s that the accounts which had been offered to Parliament were incorteet; and, therefore, to ex. press his.opinioti of tho'se accounts, he had called them false —a_ word used and. well : understood in ,Lngic, which is, not of person a l appli cat i on ,b ut on. • ly expresses the inaccuraey,of a position or Statement. He could assure every Gentleman present, that ha had no intention 'to apply the word in any, other way than as 'explained by him. He understood of. the Noble Lord who had laid the India Papers before the House, that the Legislature was to guarantee the stack of the India Company, to the amount of millions 'of money, with other eircumstanees con neFled With' the Company, .which had not in'his irind been clearly laid before the House ; the negled of which, 'and inaccuracy of the accounts, were the objects of his complaint, THEOPHILUS METCALF said, every Member in that House had a right to investigate the Papers now before the9i.relative to the Affairs of India, but no Gentleman should go so far as to say, : that the East India , Company had taken any 'measure to conceal any part of their Accounts, with an intention to deceive 'Parliament. If. the Hon. Gentleman thought the Accounts weretise, it was his duty to bring, the business before the House in a, regular way. The article alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. FaAwqrs), he had taken every Method to explain on a former occasion, and had pointed out to the Home, in the clearest pos sible way, bow the money had been applied, and every circumstance connected with the article which 'has been the objetl of comment by that Finn. Gen tleman. He said, he was aware that publishing the Debates in Parliament,was contrary to the Privileges of the House ; however, on that subjea he should not dwell, but he could not but make an observer. lion on a Paragraph -- in one of the Public PrintS,. which, inhis'Mind, appeared something like a TEA and intended to have some weight with the Public relative to the . question now under discussion ; but he ,could assure the House and ahe Hon. Gentleman, that the Company's accounts would hear a minuet investigation, and convince : those Gentlemen who may feel' inclined to. examine them, of the justice and 'honour of the East India CoMpany, and'that the, affairs of the Company were in a better. state by a million or two 'than they had been. Mr. MET. CALEB theo requested the Clerk to read the Journal of the House with repei.l to.the sum of r 2 millions alluded to by' the Hon. Gentleman. [After the' Clerk had read the record) he - declared that there was a' balance in,,fa your ot the Company of upwards of two Millions, notwithstanding they have. had many heavy dilEcultiea.to struggle with, 'and which must alwayti attend them during 'a War. The Hun. Gentleman then went over several parts of the ac, counts,he had:on 'a former occasion entered at large into, which,, he said, most be clear to any Gentle man who would take the trouble to give them a minute consideration. Lard C.O77 4 tHREAGII Said - the laSt cifentleman had, in his rain 4, given so clear 4t statement of the fads, that it was unnecessary for him to trespass oft the atteptiop.of the House a tt4u.te, but he thought . . the Public.. He said thtt the original capital Was ' 6,700,000/. His Lordship then went over several parts of the Accounts which he had before eXplain.. ii d• on the night he brought the subjed before the . I House; and concluded by paying Mr. ::lETCALFE a compliment on the accuracy of his statement. Mr. I-raAszc ts explained. Mr. W. Do:cosis made . a few general remarks, .' on the• Company's Accounts, and considered - them as very accurate. Mr. 101INSTOla, said, it was very clear from the Accounts which had been laid before the House, , thauthe Company's Affairs' were iti a worse state this year, than they had been found to be for se vial years back, by Thirteen Hundred Thousand Pounds, together with other deficiencies, which - fully evinced, that they - were not in that flourishing- • state whip!) had been reported ; and on a minute ins vestigation •of the Accounts, they would be found; very defective. Mr. WALLACE contended, that the Estimates ought to be depended • upon,. inasmuch as they were always made with great care', and they liad-alWays been' found to be as correa as the nature Of tLe subjea would admit. Ha then referred to a state ment made by Mr. DONoAs in his Budrt in J79 6 t and contended _that be had never stated, t h a t the -, Public. wire to enjoy. their participation at all events, Whether the Company should Le in a stare Of Peace or War. Mr. KINATAIRD said, he was highly gra tified with the statement given by a Noble Lo rd on a former night, respeding the situation of the East • India Company ; bat there was one •questi sin whic h did not break out in India ti 1 1 .179 3, therefore l y re he wished 'to ask. . It had been. stated, th at the War from the year 1793 to 1798, a the Company enjoyed a state of peace. He Wished to know whether, during that period, any and what money, had been paid to the Commissioners for the Guarantee Fund. Lord CASTLERE4CII said, that if the Ho n !' Gentleman had read the Ad of,ParliaMents period of five eefacirrse , h have found no money could be paid towards rdt.tula.: ht- . GuArantee Fund, until the East-India Company's: debt was reduced to the point . required by Law. ... Mr. KINNAIRD said, he was perfectly satisqecV with the explanation. . . Thclßestslotion was then agreed to. • Mr. ; WI cnsiAtt moved the Order of the Dar for going into a Committee on the -Irish Militia . , Bounty Bill, The HOuse 'having resolved itself into a CO Ol l inittee, • lift. WiCIO7AM said, ' he had two Amen d ''' . inents" Juries what I; t° .: willecre. B ill the levy : - tii money eh"t' teas, that t the` Grand counties, to repay the money which might be issitel nut of the Treasury by order of the Lord Lieutenant! for . the purpose of raising the men, should be ear powered to levy the same upon the counties at largos or upon the ' baronies, , parishes, &c. 'flue other amendment was, to leave out a clause Which imposed ! a penalty of fool. upon the Colonels of Militia who shotildlnalte falSe returni." 'This 'appeared to 110 rather disgraceful, but that was not his only lei" o3 1 for wishing . to leave it Oat, . because withou t this.. ! clause the law afforded other and very sufficient St' " curity,..., , . . •:., After a few words from Colonel .13Nowat.r., the i Amendmenti were agreed to, and the Report was; ordered to be brought up iti:lnorroW• The Report of the Irish Postage Bill was otoug 1 . fi up and agreed to ; the Bill was_ then read a thir d time and passed.. . . • The Report Of the Irish flank Restriction Bill Was brought up and agreed to. . Mr; BAILLI2 moved for the second - reading 0:f the Grenada Loan Bill. . . Mr. WILBERFORCE said that he was on' aware that the bill was to be read a second time to night, and wished that it might not now be' pressed. Mr. BAILLIE said, he Slid not wish to press its • and,the second reading vos postponed till to.3lofr TOW. . The Committees of Supply and Ways arid Means. were put off till Wednesday. I Adjourned at lia!f past six till to•mortow. I MAILS. Dux. ar svaa. Holland o Yrertch 0 - liamburgh 0 PRICE OF STOCKS. THIS DAY AT TWZLYZ O'CLOCK. Camels THE SUN. SOL. Eli r jls DICER". I ALSI'M AUDI! T ? LONDON, MA RC 11 2z, iBO3. AN American Vessel arrived at Falmouth on Sa• turday, which left the Cape of Good Hope on th e Bth of January, four days after the Princess ilia : a Packet. , Our Troops were in quiet possession, O a we understand that a considerable number of o ' 6 Dutch Troops, upon finding that the British '%verq to retain possession of that Settlement, offered to enlist into our. Service. We lay before our Readers today the Articles 01 Agreement for the landing the Dutch Troops, :W I 3 Proclamation issued by General-DuNDAI, after his receiving orders to retain his post, in which he p l°- Claims martial I4aw, for the better maintaining or der in the Colony. His Majesty's Ship Orpheus • arrived at Ports mouth yesterday from the East. Indies ; and the Nordarpton, Bruagnia,,General Stseart, and A- Apfin Indiamen, passtd up Channel Jrf. th e Downs. ;