The Sun. — London, England, 1845-06-24 00:00:00

trust which had been confided to him, for the sake of a foolish joke. He would say that if he were in the poshien of the Noble an- 4 . Learned - Lord, and hal mad , a , sfatem.-nt with respect t.o matess that had been confided ta him. whin he thought fit to divulge, and that he would in explan iti.)n make it appear that authority had been given to 'aim to act in the manner he had, he ihouo , he should not gain much credit by allowing him to 13.• suiijected to any wrong imputations. The reason why he had given up these Bills was, because it had been so suggested by the hon. and Learned Member for Cork. He (Mr. O'Connell) well knew that he had never, by any base or servile adulation, committed himself in any way. He was well ac quainted with the whole course of his political career since be had entered Parliament, and that he would exercise the fuir and legitimate use of his own judgment upon all questions connected with Ireland. He knew also that the last act of his public life was not to give in his adhesion to the principles which were promulgated from Conciliation-ball. ( Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances, he might be at liberty to ask whether he was to labour under the charge of having committed a breach of confidence by way of a foolish joke, or was he to look down in slavish obedience to the dictum of the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork ? SPANISH COLONIAL SUGAR. Mr. LABOUCHERE wished to put a question to the Right Hon. Gentleman opoonte with reference to the claims advanced by Spain for the admission of her colonial sugar into the ports of this country. He wished to know if any arrange ment had been come to with that country in reference to this subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that not knowing that the Right Honourable Gentleman would have put the question, he was net prepared at that moment to answer it. Mr. LABOUCHERE then gave notice of his intention to ask the qae4i on a future day. POOR-LAW SETTLEMENTS BILL. Mr. S. CRAWFORD wished to know if it were intended to pass the Poor-law Settlements Bill through the House this session? Sir J. GRAHAM said, that as there was a great contrariety of opinion on the subject of the law of settlereent, it was not his intention to press that part of the measure at that time, but it might be expedient if the HOll9l would permit the Bill to be read a second time in the amended form. He did not think there could be any objection to this course, for he was not aware that any opposition would be shown to that portion of the Bill which related to the law of removal. RELIEF TO IRELAND. Mr. E. B. ROCHE said it might be in the recollection of the Right Hon. Baronet that he (Mr. Roche) had in the beginning of the session asked him whether before its close he should bring in two measures for Ireland, one for a reform in the Municipal Reform Act, and another for the extension of eke franchise. At this late period he did not think it out of place to again inquire whether it was the Right Hon. Baronet's intention to bring these measures forward ? Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the state of Ireland had received in a very considerable degree the attention of the Go vernment. One important measure had already passed that House, and another was under the consideration of the other House of Parliament—he meant the Landlords and Tenants Bill. IRISH COLLEGES BILL. Mr. JOHN O'CONNELL presented a great number of petitions against the Irish Colleges Bill, signed together by upwards of 144,000 persons : among them one from Dublin, which alone was signed by between 50,000 and 60,000 persons. Mr. ROSS presented a petition from Belfast, very nume rously signed, in favour of the Bill, and stating the satisfaction the petitioners experienced from the equality with which all sects were to be treated. Mr. WYSE presented a petition from several distinguished inhabitants ef Dublin in favour of the Irish Colleges Bill. Mr. J. O'CONNELL was sorry that his sense of duty com pelled him to object to the reception of the petition. The SPEAKER interrupted the Hon. Member by re minding him that it was out of order to enter into a discus sion oe the presentation of a petition. Mr. J. O'CONNELL merely wished to enter his protest against a petition which, without any offence, he must declare was drawn up and presented under false pretences. He denied that it represented the feelings of the inhabitants of Dublin generally, er any but an unim;eirtant and comparatively insig nitleant portion. Several names had been obtained to it under an impression that the petition condemned the principle, but approved the motives that actuated the measure ; and one gentleman in particular had, after signing, expressed his de termination ef withdrawing his name. For these reasons, therefore, he felt justified in protesting against the petition. Mr. WYSE rose to reply, but The SPEAKER intimated that such a course was out of order, and that the petition had been received. Sir J. GRAHAM presented a petition from the professors and students of the Belfast Institution in favour of the Irish Colleges Bill. Sir R. PEEL presented a petition from a large number of the citizens ef London, including fifty barristers, against the in troduction of theology in academical institutions generally, and in favour of the Irish Colleges Bill. Also a petition from the literary institutions of Belfast in favour of the system. This petition was signed by persons ef different religious per suasions. ACADEMICAL EDUCATION (IRELAND). Sir JAMES GRAHAM then rose and said, that con nected with the motion that the Speaker do leave the Chair to go into Committee on this Bill, there were some matters which he was desirous of explaining. Questions had been put to him by Hon. Members connected with this measure, which with the per mission of the House he would answer. He would now endeavour to avoid everything in the shape of argument, reserving that for the motion of which his Hon. Friend the Member for Yar mouth had given notice. He wished to answer a question put by his Hon. Friend the Member for Northampton, with refer ence to the class of persons for whose benefit the measure was intended. The House would recollect that, upon the second reading of the Bill, he stated to the House that his colleagues were of opinion that, considering the great spread of educa tion among the humbler classes in Ireland, 400,000 of whom were now receiving education undcr the na tional education system, and 100,000 under the Cha ritable Societies, and considering the means of education which the Dublin University afforded for the higher classes, he thought it was requisite that some provision should be made for the instruction of the middle classes. The inhabi tants of the great towns and cities of Ireland, Cork, Waterford, Kilkenny, and Belfast, were without any means of collegiate education ; and for the middle classes, thel present collegiate education in Dublin was too remote and expensive. The education provided by these colleges would be equal to that in the Scottish Universities, and not inferior to that of Trinity College, Dublin. He would be doing the measure an injustice if he said it was In any degree of an exclusive character—it was as open to the higher as it was to the middle classes, and would, he expected, be acceptable to most of them. A question of a more prac • tieal character had been put to him by the Noble Lord, the Member fur the City of London, regarding the appropriation of the money voted. With respect to the 30,000/. for build ing the colleges, he must say that he did rot consider the sum by any means exorbitant—it would be impossible to erect them at a less cost. At the same time, he believed that sum would be sufficient. He proposed to appropriate the sum of 7 ,0001. a year to each of the institutions. In each college they contemplated the appointments of President and Vice- President—the maximum of President to be a salary of 70s1. per annum—the maximum of Vice-President, 500/. In each co lege there would be from twelve to fourteen professors, with a salary of not less than 2001. nor more than 300/. a year. In each college there would be a librarian of 2001. a year; a bursar, 100/. ; servants, 300/. Astronomical and other scientific instruments, as well as a library, would be nes oessary, for which 2,000/. a year would be allowed. He would propose that in the first year there should be an exa mination of those pupils who were in their first year. In the se cond year he thought there should be public examinations for those of the first year and of the second. He would in that year propose premiums of from 20/. to 25/., and exhibitions in the third year of not less than 30/. for twenty students. The exhibitions in the third year may vary, if it seemed to be de sirable, from 2 1. to 30/., or to 411. That brought him to another point, on which a question was asked of him, not, he believed, by the Noble Lord the Member for London, but by the Hon. Member for Dumfries, a point to which he knew that great importance would attach, and in reference to which the Hon. Member for the county of Limerick would address the House: In opening to the House the reasons which in duced her Majesty's Government to propose this Bill in its present form, he stated specifically that, consistent with the principles on which it was founded, it was not possible for her Majesty's Government to propose that any religious test should be administered either to the governing b :dy, the students, or any persons connected with these colleges. To that principle he would steadily adhere. At the same time he was bound to state that it might be found that ample precaution was not secured by the statute against professors lecturing in these colleges, abusing their power of giving instruction, and seek ing to undermine the religious doctrines of those students to whom they administered secular instruction. He knew no security which they could devise. He must say that when ever the State endowed, the Crown had generally the power of nomination. It had the power of neminating the Regius Professor• in the English colleges. So the rule was that when the State endowed the Crown nominated. Ile was not, however, prepared to say that with respect to the first nomina tion by which tt was necessary to give the first movement to the new machine, it was iodispencable that the advisers of the Crown should be responsible for their nomination. With re spect to the professors, he was not prepared to limit their election, according to the desires of those on the opposite side. When the measure should have been in operation for three years then those appointments should b• regulated by Parlia ment. This role would be admitted to be absolutely necessary when it was remembered that these colleges could not spring uo by magic, or could not be brought into effisient working order before the taper of considerable time ; therefore it had been deemed necessary that those appointments should be re considered and renewed after the lapse of three years, and in the meantime everything that could be devised to facilitate the progress of those colleges to something like perfection, should be done. It might be asked, why not limit the period to one year ? He had already said that it could not be possible that those colleges could he in active operation by that time, and that it would be advisable not to renew those arrangements moil such time as the colleges could be included under one university—(Hear, hear)—in which the pupils should be en abled to sake out degrees in the law, and the arts and sciences. —( Hear, hear.) There would also be examiners attached to the university ; but before that university could be granted an application should be made to Parliament, and the appointments in it should vest in the Crown. And to apply the ulterior arrangements of the university to the population, it wou ld appear to him the natural way t h at examiners and head s o f co ll eges s h ou ld have a power o f recommending. to the C rown t h e pro f essor whom they thoug h t best e qn aided, with th e power to the Crown of a veto upon all h recommendations. Now, there had seemed to be a g eneral I opinion i n th e H ouse that the control of the moral education of I the youth sent to the Colleges had not been sufficiently provided 1 Gee in the Bills. To m edy that defect, c l arses h a d been introdaced which he belie vedre would be acknowledged to be ' perfect. Youths sent to those colleges should either be resi dent with their parents or or they guardians, or reside n t w ith persons :selected by th eir parent, should be congregate d i n I boarding-houses or halls, under the contro l of the he a d of the colleges. Whe n the pupils resided w ith their parent s or guardians, no other co n t ro l over their moral and er r gouseducation eras necessary, and nothi ng cou l d be worse than the inter ference of the Government in such cases. (Hear, hear.)B u t i,‘ the students did not reside with thei r parents ' it would ouldb e neorsoo ry that the persons selected should be approved of by the 6 ,ads of the colleges. The houses, therefore, in which studenots not resident with their parents should be placed were to have licences, and the heads of the colleges were to have the power of revoking those licences, if they disapproved of the eanduct of the persons holding them. W ith respect t o th e establishmeent of the halls, perfect facilities would be given to the Board of Work s to make advances for the bu ild i ng of tho s e pl ac es, and they would be g overned by ru les enacted by the visitor*, The power also of appointing the princi pals of the halls would be vested in the visitors. It was proposed that the heads of these establishments should be appointed by those who possessed the confidence of the large bodies of the different religious persuasions. There remained bat one question to answer, and that was one of some im portance, which was put by the Rig ht Honourable the Jambes for Dungarvon, who asked if the Government were prepared to appoint religious professors, and to make _ religion a part of the education in these sem inari es .'The Government had given the question their best considera tion, and ;they were of opinion that, in such a case, the per iltramutoe religicos worship with* the college, t hey were de mstatedly op*sed te.—(Hear, hear.) On that po int they were prepared to make no concession whatever. Having answered all the questions, he thought he should now be but performing his duty in moving that the House do go into Committee on ' the Bid. On the question that the Speaker leave the Chair, Lord J. RUSSELL said that he did not quite understand the mode in which the professors were to be appointed, whether the clause should be left open for the future consideration of Parliament, or whether Government had determined on some present mode of filling up these offices? Sir J. GRAHAM was obliged to the Noble Lord for having retpinded him of this point. He thought it would be desirable to leave the point open until perhaps 1848, with the view of securing the opinion of Parliament after they should have had experience to guide them on the subject. He would read the 10th clause of the fill if the House would allow him, and he thought it would be sufficient to satisfy the inquiry of the Noble Lord.—( The Right Hon. Baronet then read the clause re ferred to.) Viscoont MAHON then rose to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice, that in the establishment of colleges in Ireland, provision should be made for the religious instruction of the pupils, by means of lecture fees, till such time as private benefactions for that object may have taken effect. He admitted the integrity of the motives by which the present measure had been actuated, but believed that the in troduction of spiritual and secular education should be simul taneous, and that without this no system of education whatever would be valuable or efficrecious.—( Hear, hear.) In the 15th clause, it was provided that any person might bequeath land for securing the benefit of religious instruction in the institution, and Clause C and its amendments effected similar contingent provisions ; but how could any reliance be placed upon such an uncertainty, or how could the House say that any bequests would be made for those purposes ? The dependence on contingencies of private capital was not such a basis as this measure ought to rest on.--( Hear.) If it could, however, be even preyed that these anticipations would ever take place, he for one should still object to the precedent of thus endowing colleges, as it might subsequently be applied to locali ties or circumstances where no such contingency existed. In what way must the student receive the advice of his tutor ? " Astronomy is of great importance; there is a skilful pro fessor, attend his lectures, and acquire a knowledge of the science. Mathematics also must be carefully learned; and medicine, too, for which there is another skilful professor ; but as to religion, learn it anywhere, or nowhere, or not at all." That may not be the meaning intended by the House, but it was that which the pupils would universally and naturally put upon the system. By the 15th clause no student was compelled to attend any theological lectures or re ligious instruction. To such a provision he unequivocally ob jected, and though the amendment brought forward in a good spirit would go far to remove the objection, that was no reason why the Government or the House should not go further. On a former occasion it had been stated by his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government, that even religious differences would prevent religious education being sanctioned by any Act of the State. There could be no doubt that it must be a great advantage for students to have the opportunity of acquiring secular learning with all the splendid discoveries of science and art, but as far as religious instruction was con cerned the pupils would be left totally unprovided for, and re moved entirely from the cautious superintendence of parental care, exposed to the inculcation of any strange doctrine. With reference to that part of the subject he would call the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Govern ment to a letter which he had received from Dr. Cahill, in which he pointed oat, not by mere guess, but from positive re ferences, that it was very usual for professors, eien when talking on abstract subjects, to indulge themselves in remarks which had a decidedly religious tendency. The inference he would draw from this was that the advantages to be derived from secular learning were not to be diminished, but that the pupil, in conjunction with these benefits, should have every opportunity of enjoying religious instruction. The Right Hen. the Secretary of State had contended that the system of policy now proposed was founded on the same principles as those on which the National schools of Ireland were based. He had heard that statement with great surprise from a Minister so well acquainted with Irish affairs as his Right Hon. Friend. Setting aside the consideration whether the system had worked well or ill, advantageously or adversely, it was certain that, notwithstanding no regular general system of religious instruction was professedly taught, a portion of re ligious education was insisted on and taught in those schools. In showing the design and intention of the National schools of Ireland, he could not find words that would better illustrate that than those which were used by the Minister at the head of affairs, when that measure was first proposed in another place. Earl Grey, on the '22d of March, 1832, stated that, if they were to have a system of National education for Ireland, it must not exclude the Roman Catholics. who constituted the great part of the population of Ireland. To meet this difficulty, he (Lord Grey) said, though the indiscriminate use of the Bible would not be permitted, instead of that, on certain days of the week, in addition to literary instruction, extracts from the Bible, in which all parties were agreed, would be used as a school-book. It could not, therefore, be said that Earl Grey excluded the Bible. That Noble Lord's description of the National system was, that it was to be a system of education of which reli gion should necessarily form a part.—( Hear, hear.) If he (Lord Mahon) were to state his views of a system of educa tion not for England, for Scotland, or for Ireland, but adapted for all eountries and all ages, he could not better express him self than in the language of a Noble Lord (Lord Stanley), not when he introduced this measure into that House, but when speaking on it at a later period—namely, on the 14th of June, 1639. He (Lord Stanley) said he was not contending for absolute control over the direction of education, but only for the principle that education, whether applied to Dissenters or the Church, was not a thing apart from religion, but a thing in which religion must be made not only a part but the foundation. He (Lord Mahon) in agreement with those senti ments, would say that religion must form a necessary part of every well regulated system of education. Could this be called a new opinion? Had it not been held by the most eminent men that secular should be blended with spiritual education, by such men as Pascal, Fenelon, Wesley, and Hooker. If the importance of religious instruction was felt as essential in State education, was there anything peculiar in the state of Ireland to forbid its applica tion? When the country was Protestant, there would be no difficulty in applying it, but in Ireland he thought it would not answer. If provisions had been made by the State in this Bill for professors of different religious denominations, he would certainly have op posed it.—(Hear, hear.) He would now state fully and ex plicitly the views which he intended to recommend to the adoption of the House. He thought that there ought to be in each college a professor of theology, according to the doctrines of the Established and the Roman Catholic Churches, and in the college of Belfast a Presbyterian professor It had been correctly stated by the Right Hon. Baronet that evening, that if the professorships were sanctioned by the State, then the State was bound to endow them, but he ( Viscount Mahon) did not require this endowment. He would afterwards explain how it was he proposed to support them. He proposed that the appointment of the Established Church professor should rest with the Bishop of the Established Church, the Roman Cath6- lie professor with the Bishop of that Church, and the Presby terian professor by the General Assembly. He should pro pose as a general rule that the students should study under and be examined by one of these professors, but in many cases he should allow exemptions. In the first place, he should propose that exemptions should be granted to every class of Separatists ; and there were particular ex. emptions which might be regulated by the heads of the diffe rent . seminaries. The amount of lecture-fee might be stated by the Beard of Visitors, and if they would suppose a hundred pupils, at perhaps two-and-a-half guineas per annum—a suffi cient provision would be made for the maintenance of the lec turers. He did not doubt that even with these limited means they would be enabled, even at the outset, to secure the ser- vicis of highly-gifted men—men of the highest character as professors. Looking to what they saw daily in the public offices, where young men of talent and education ente r ed for an inadequate salary of perhaps 1001. a year, in the hope that a future period would find them more adequately provided for. Looking to this fact he could not but think that persons could be found equally ready to undertake the duty he referred to till such time as the means could be provided for more adequately remunerating them. He did not think that it would be ne- cessary for him to enter more into detail, and he begged the House to remember that however much they might wish to conciliate Ireland, a good and sound religious education was the best boon they could confer upon the people. Mr. WYSE rose to second the motion of his Noble Friend. He was strongly impressed with the conviction that education, to deserve the name, must be based upon religion and mora lity. They had established colleges, and he thought they should also have established professorships of theology in them. He was anxious that there should be chairs in those colleges for religious instructions, and he did not mean theological. But he thought that the endowment of those chairs should be de- rived from the communities for whose advantage they were in tended. He was so far in favour of the voluntary principle, that he should support the proposition for defraying the charges of those professorships by means of fees from the pupils whose parents wished them to avail themselves of the instruction, whether Roman Catholic or Protestant. At the same time, he must declare his belief that if there were not such professorships, the religtoug education of the Catholic youth in the universities would not be neglected. For he knew too well the untiring seal of that venerable body the Catholic clergy to doubt that they would watch ov er the youth of theiichurch —( Hear.) But, in order to prevent an hiatus in the establishment of the colleges themselves, he was willing to adopt the proposition of his Noble Friend, and . . . , agree to the appointment of religious professors to be paid by fees from the pupils. By such a course State endowment would be avoided, and religious instrection would be provided for; and he would rejoice if that plan received the general concurrence of the House.—(Hear.) Indeed the Bill of the Right Hon. Baronet did not, from the first, exclude religious instruction, but left room for its provision, otherwise he should have been unwilling to vote for a measure which contemplated no means of providing for religions instruetion.—( Hear, hear.) But he would not concur in the objections that had been made in a quarter for which he had the most profound veneration, to the appointment of teachers of geology and anatomy. —( Hear. ) He always deferred with humility to the opinions of that dis tinguished body of men—the Catholic Bishops of Ireland ; but with all deference, he thought that if their objections were to be carried out, it would apply equally to the teachers of astro nomy, of geography, of history, and all rudimental instruction —(Hear, hear)—so that there would be no such thing as mixed education at alt.—( Hear, hear.) An Hen. Member, now behind him (Mr. J. O'Connell) had attacked him in his absence in Conciliation-hall —( Hear, hear)—f,sr the views he had expressed upon the subject, and had stated that he was returned to Parliament as a Catholic, but had ceased to be one, thereby implying that he was to lose his seat for the course which he had taken.—(" No, no," from Mr. J. O'Co nne ll.) But he w.luld tell the Hon. Gentleman that he was not his ....___ _ ( Mr. Wyse's) Pope.—( Cheers. ) He would:ask, why was the objection to Protestant teachers of philosophy in Trinity Col lege objected to by the Catholic prelates? Why had they never objected to Catholic youths being taught the sciences in that Col lege by Protestant professors? Why had they never objected to Protestant teachers in all the medical schools ?—( Hest., hear. ) The Hon. Gentleman then referred to extracts from the . - s se pe p e e p e o hh which i fir. John ch l gaveo O'Connell, and ecasionsothe read attack, contending from ingt th e e hath h h a e d h b ad ee e n ul m og is i r se e d pre a sen p t r e u d s , sia a n nd ry es s p te e m cial o ly f i e n du th ca e ti a o l n le , g w at h io le n h t e h x a - t eluded religious instruction He begged leave to tell the Hon. Member that th ere wou ld b e s h own m ore Christianity and more Catholicity in an indulgence for the opinions of others, than in denouncing Mr. Wyse of Waterford as an " Anything arian."—(Cheers. ) The Hon. Gentleman concluded amidst loud cheers, by reading an extract from the Bishop of Down's address •to the students of Trinity College on the subject of tolerating the opinions of others, which extract, the Hon. Member said, ought to be written in letters of gold. Mr. J. O'CONNELL hoped the House would allow him to ssy a few words upon the matter, in which he had been per sonally alluded to. He would not then go into the general question, as he supposed that the Right Hon. Baronet would give the House at least thirty-six hours to consider his amend ments. If that were not the case, he would state his opinion of the amendments at a later hour of the night. He did not think the Hon. Member for Waterford had a right to complain of his (Mr. John O'Connell's) observations as having been made in his absence. He had been required by his constituents to attend in Conciliation-hall, and so had the Hon. Gentleman. He (Mr. O'Connell) anted upon the instructions of his con stituents, and not being able to attend in the House, he com mented on the speech of the Hon. Gentleman in Conciliation hall, where he was obliged to be.—(G reat laughter.) He thought that in his speech he had modified the language of which the Hon. be Gentleman i f c t o h m e pl a Houseined ; b knew u the t all t h n e e wspaper report mightbusiness th a t was dons i c a or ConCillation.hall—(Grest 4tughtc.)--tb.7 would not wonder if gentlemen were sometimes unable to say all that they intended.—( Hear, hear.) He, however, was not reported to say that the Hon. Member for Waterford was a Protestant, but that be was very near one—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—at all events, that in his opposition to his bishops upon a religious question, he was a schismatic Catholic.— ( Cries of " Oh, oh.'') It was not a Catholic act to appeal to the House of Commons against the authority of his bishops—it was practical rebellion.—( Renewed cries of " Oh.") He (Mr. Wyse) spoke of the demands of the Bishops as petty and insignificant. These were the declarations of the Roman Catholic Bishops, which he ( Mr. J. O'Connell) be lieved to be supreme authority in Ireland, controllable only by the Sovereign in Council, that this Act was dangerous to the Roman Catholic people in Ireland ; and that there were certain terms which could alone render such a Bill at all safe. They had declared that; and they had further declared, in an interview with the Lord Lieutenant in Ireland, that these were demands less than which they could not ask. He (Mr. O'Connell) submitted to them, as in duty bound ; he ad vanced no other objection ; and if the Honourable Gentleman called that objection petty and insignificant, he could only tell him that he was not abusing him, but the Roman Catholic Bishops. He also praised the law in Prussia, in 1819, that a priest should not administer communion to the children at the public schools. Nobody could deny that that was a gross infraction of ecclesiastical right. They were ready to secure for the Pro testants and Presbyterians their colleges, and all they asked was to be treated in the same way. He would ask them not to force down the throats of the Irish Roman Catholics a system which was revolting to their conscience, and which would bring the utmost confusion, strife, and discord, in that country. It would more strongly unite the people in the desire for their own Parliament, and in the with not to allow theorists to talk away their religious feelings, and would by no means tend to put down the repeal agitation. He would tell the Hon. Member that if the Bill passed into law, instead of causing conciliation in Ireland, it would cause utter con fusion and would increase the determination of the Irish people not to be mislegi slated fur by the English representatives, or those calling themselves the representatives of the people of Ireland. The Hon. Member said that he (Mr. J. O'Connell) wanted to renew religious feuds in Ireland, by calling on the people of Waterford to ask him to resign his seat in Parliament, as he was not representing his constituents. He thought that it was most unfair to impute to him that which he abhorred in his soul, namely, the idea of renewing religious feuds in Ireland. His words were misrepresented. He called upon the Catholic electors of Waterford to take notice that he was not represent ing them as Roman Catholics. They were inclined to be led by their bishops, and the Hon. Member for Waterford was ex claiming against them, and consequently he was not repre senting them as Reiman Catholics. It was on that account that he asked them to call upon him to resign, or net to elect him after next election. Mr. WYSE then explained, and read the report of the words of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, as contained in the columns of the Nation newsoaper. Sir JAMES GRAHAM felt confident that he expressed the opinion of the great mtjority of the House when he de clared his strong impression that that was not the place to discuss what degree of submission Catholic gentlemen owed to their ecclesiastical superiors. It must be very painful to the House to hear some observations which had fallen from the Honourable Member who had just sat down. The Honourable Member for Waterford was not bound in explicit obedience to the opinion of the Bishops in his representative capacity. He was at liberty to express his own judgment on a matter whi h was not considered spiritual but temporal. He ( Sir James Graham) felt that he must also state what he considered to be due to the Hon. Member for Waterford, namely that he had not been guilty of any deception whatever towards his consti tuents. His religious opinions and his religious practice, whatever they might be, were known to that constituency. So much for his orthodox catholicity, and as far as his political opinions went, to his honour be it spoken, he waa a friend to Bri tish connexion as founded by the legislative union. He invariably declared that opinion to the electors of Waterford, who all knew his religious and political feelings. He therefore prac tised no deception. He had discharged his duty to his consti tuency in the most honourable manner, and he (Sir J. Graham) would despair of the welfare of Ireland, if the people of Ireland held a different opinion. He attached the greatest importance to the strict observance of the rules of the House, and the ex perience of every year taught him more and more their value and importance. His Noble Friend must excuse him when he would say, that while he (Lord Mahon) adhered to those rules he had most decidedly violated their principles. The rule was, that it was not competent for any Member to move any instruc tion to a Committee on a provision which, without instruc tion, it shall be competent for that Committee to make. The spirit of the motion now made was nothing more nor less than an instruction, and if it was it was grossly irregular. This de parture from the rule of the House had involved them in ex treme difficulties, to the disadvantage of the measure now be fore them. His Noble Friend should have introduced his plan as a clause in the measure. Now that they were compelled to discuss the motion of his Noble Friend, he must express his surprise that the Hon. Member for Waterford seconded it. Its object was the appointment of theological professors, and in seconding it the Hon. Member for Waterford stated that he had insuperable objections to that. After hearing his Noble Friend's speech, he was still in doubt whether the object of the motion was to have those professors paid voluntarily or not. He, however, collected from the speech of his Noble Friend that the Roman Catholic professors were to be nomi nated by the Roman Catholic bishops, and the Prote s t an t pro fessors by the Prot es t an t bi s h ops , and the Presbyterian pro fessors by the Presbyterians. Was that rule to be confined to the orthodox Presbyterians ? Were not the Unitarian Presbyterians of the North of Ireland entitled to it also? The Hon. Member for Waterford stated that religious instruction was excluded; but any gentleman, looking to the 15th clause of the Bill, would see, that so far from religious instruction being excluded, every encouragement was given to th e p ro p aga ti on o f re li g i ous doctrines. Considering w hat the principles of the Bill were, he could not see how the motion of his Noble Friend could be listened to. Religious instruction ought not, in his (Sir J. Graham's) opinion, to be given within the walls of the colleges while all facilities could he had for affording it without the walls. It had been said also that it was the intention of the Govern ment. not to bear in mind, in`selecting the ecclesiastical instruc tors, the ecclesiastical authorities of the district; but again he should remind Hon. Members that there was to be no ecclesiastical instruction within the walls of the colleges. The Hon. Member for Waterford had said that he, a Roman Catholic, had been educated in Trinity Coll ege , D u bli n . W e ll, th en , he (Sir J. Graham) need not remind the Right Hon. Gentleman that there was no religious instruction given to Roman Catholics within the walls of that institution. There were a great many Roman Catholics educated within its walls, who received their ecclesiastical education without, and therefore he could not see why the same principle should not be applied to the new col leges.—(Hear, hear.) He conceived then upon the whole that the general principles in the new Bill afforded a far better principle of arrangement. Need he instance the educational institutions of Scotland, where religious instruction was not required to be given within those walls. In those institutions the Presbyterian and Roman Catholic mixed and received alike the same secular educational instruction, but religious instruc tion was given to no class of Christians in those colleges. In further proof of this he held in his hand a letter which he had recently received from a gentleman, a Roman Catholic and member of the town council of the city of Edinburgh, by which it appeared that by virtue of their charter a large number of the town council of Edinburgh were members of the Edinburgh University. The writer went en to state that he was opposed to a proposition which had been introduced at the University, having for its object religious instruction within its walls—the question was put to the vote and was negatived by a majority of the town council, and, therefore, it was decided upon that religious instruction should continue to be given as before without the wallr of that University.—( Hear, hear.) He would not weary the House by enterieg further into details, but he would beg leave to be permitted to read an extract from the evidence given before a Committee of that House by Dr. Crolley, Roman Catholic Archbishop of Ireland, in reference to the system of national education introduced into Ireland. The evidence had reference to the rules enforced in the system of education pursued in the Belfast Educational Institution. The Right Honourable Baronet then read the extract, the sub stance of which was to the effect, that he (Dr. Crolly) had no objection whatever to Roman Catholics intended for Maynooth receiving their initiatory education at the Belfast Academical Institution. Nor did he conceive that any danger could arise to Roman Catholic students mixing with students of other persuasions, so long as they were under the control of proper masters. This he (Sir James Graham) conceived was sufficient to show that the Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland had no objection to such a system of education as that adopted in the Belfast Academical Institution. His Noble Friend (Lord Mahon) had alluded to the system of national education in Ireland, as introduced by Lord Stanley. Now he ( Sir James Graham) begged to say, from the first introduction of that measure, he had been a warm and sincere advocate of that measure, and he should say he felt bound to add, that that system, which compre hended what he might call a combined system of education, might have been most successfully carried out in that country, but for the Protestant hierarchy and parochial clergy, who offered it from the commencement the most determined opposition.—.(Cries of " Hear, hear.") But so far from that opposition having affected the success of the measure, be (Sir J. Graham) believed he could not give a better in stance of its popularity than the fact that four hundred thou sand children were receiving in that country a good general moral education, under that system—a fact which, he believed, was not exceeded by any other country, whether Roman Catholic or Protestant.—( Hear, hear.) He regretted, also, to observe that the Hon. Member for Waterford ( Mr. Wyse) had fallen into the mistake of believing that scriptural extracts were read in the school-books of the national schools during school hours ; but he ( Sir J. Graham) begged to correct that mistake, and to state that it was after school hours that every facility was given for religious instruction.—( Hear, hear.) A system of combined religious education in Ireland was an- fortunately impossible. The great majority of the people of that country were believers in Christianity; b u t s till it was of vast importance that there should be a combined national system of secular education established, as a similar system, combining religion, would be impossible. inasmuch as such a system, under existing circumstances, would tend rather to foster than soften down religious animosities.—( Cheers. ) Lord MA HON explained. He had drawn this clause in strict conformity with the precedent established by General Gascoigne upon going into Committee on the Reform Bill. Lord CLIVE, after addressing himself to the difficulty of bringing clauses under the consideration of the House upon a Bill of this description, defended the clause introduced br the Noble Lord the Member for Hertford. He thought the Noble Lord had exercised a sound judgment in bringing forward this question on principle. Mr. M. I%IILN ES said it was painful to fi n d th a t th e hie . _ . • •••••:••• • ••, rarchy of the Catholic religion were coming f o r war d t o • oppose a large and liberal measure like the present. He believed that the Catholic religion might be made the nurse of religious free dom ; but this opposition of the Catholic hierarchy would lead a person to believe that their object was to crush everything like religious liberty. Upon this ground, he felt called upon to oppose the motion of his Noble Friend the Member for Hertford. Mr. J. O'CONNELL explained. Mr. B. ESCOTT thought the opposition to the measure had been as useless as it would be nugatory. The Hon. Member for Semersetshire, who alone had objected to it, on the ground that Ireland needed no education, had been very satisfactorily answered by the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department. The only remaining objection was that propunded by the Hon. Members for Oxford and Newcastle under-Lyne, that it was " a gigantic scheme of Godless edu cation," and that religion was eschewed in its principles. Mr. COLQUHOUN—I beg your pardon, I have expressed no opinion. Mr. ESCOTT had misapprehended the course pursued by the Hon. Gentleman ; but at all events the Honourable Members for Oxford and Newark . bad based their oppo- sition on those grounds. But he (Mr. Escott) de fended it, . because it was essentially religious--(A laugh)—and because he . thought . that the only chance of promoting true religion was by excluding sectarian differences.—( Hear.) The measure was calculated to allay those differences, and pave the way for an extensive and effi cient system of sound religious instruction, and the reason that all previous attempts had proved abortive, was that they were not bold enough to propose a measure so enlarged and compre hensive. When it was said that religion was the chief ob stacle to the pacification of Ireland, the very strongest argu ment was used in favour of a measure which supplied the defi ciency and avoided the obstacle and impediment to all efficient education in Ireland.—( Hear.) When he heard Hon. Members denominating this a Godless scheme of education, it put him in mind of the history he had heard net long ago, of a worthy man or good imentions, who lopt a school lu a country village, yEE SUN, LONDON, TUeSDAI I "EVENING, JUNE 24, 1845. a man of unimpeached character, and of whom nothing but good was spoken. All at once a very grave accusation—it was said he was guilty of a very cruel act, that in the depth of the severe winter he had refused his pupils the use of fire. A strict investigation was instituted, and what was the result ? Why, that this excellent pedagogue had denied the use of squibs and crackers, and be cause he prevented them from singeing their coats, he was accused of the enormous barbarity of denying a little warmth to his perishing pupils.—(Laughter.) Such appeared to him to be the kind of accusation hrox,glit against the Government for not allowing the feelings of polemical animosity to prevent the improvement of the people. —( Hear, hear.) Not only was this a religious measure, but that man was above the re!i gious man who would do acts of mercy and justice to the Irish. It had been said that the measure was not palatable to the Ca tholic prelates. If they waited for a measure that would be palatable to them, they must give what would be unpalaable to the great body of the United Kingdom.—( Hear,hear.) He could not think that the Honourable Member for Cork or Kilkenny represented the feelings of the Irish people ; for he thought, nay, he knew, that a great mass of the populatiott of Ireland, Catholic, Protestant, and Presbyterian, rejiced in the prospect of a measure which would give those who could not afford now to procure it, the means of a good classical education without the bane of sectarian animosities.—( Hear. ) But while he denied that the member for Cork expressed the opinion of the Irish people, he equally repudiated the assump tion that the member for the University of Oxford represented the feeling of the Church of England. He would rather ad mit that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who he supposed would support the Bill, merited that claim more than ten to one. Those who professed to be very godly should recollect what was said by one of the first judges of the heart, that it was ever the peculiarity of those who make a pretence of godliness never to be satisfied till they could put their fingers on their neigh bour's conscience, and pinch them there. This measure gave no such opportunity, and therefore it was displeasing : but it was a good, a stupendous, a politic, a worthy measure, and as such he defended it, and honoured the Government for intro• ducing it. It had been said that it had not pacified Ireland, who ever thought it would? but it was not a measure of to day, it was one to create a new and a better feeling, one whose benefits would be felt in future generations, and whose boon would then be permanent. He hoped the Hon. Member op posite (Mr. O'Connell) would excuse him—humble as he was— in venturing to express his disappointment at the course he had adopted. He had expected that party animosities would have been thrown aside, and that the time had come when, after con ferring great benefits on Ireland, and obtaining for his country redress for the injuries of ages, he would have assisted this country in bestowing greater. Why did he not rise superior to sectarian animosities? Why would he not now teach the people over whom he held such indisputable control, lessons of pacification, and refrain from that useless agitation which he had so long carried on ? Why would he not help the Govern ment in effecting a measure which he (Mr. Escott) and the Government and all admitted to be necessary for the benefit of Ireland? He had gained many victories, why will he not achieve one other more glorious, more ennobling than all, a victory over himself.--( Hear.) Many had attacked the Go vernment for a desertion of their former principles; he, for one, could see no such change ; in fact, there was a very close analogy between this and other measures for the relief of the community. One was opposed by the monopolist of religion, the others by the monopolist of protection. He honoured them because they had defied the taunts of bigotry, and in spite of bigots and monopolists had urged those principles which were sanctioned by liberty and truth, and the free and independent voice of the United Kingdom.—( Hear, hear.) He said to them "Go on and prosper."—(lronical cheers.) He could not please everybody ; but he repeated, " go on and prosper ;" their course was a noble one, and he trusted would meet not only with the temporary approbation of the kingdom, but be conducive to the prosperity and happiness of Ireland. Mr. COLQUHOIJN would not oppose the present propo sition of the Government, though he could not support it on the grounds submitted by the last speaker, and it would look like satire if with him he called it a religious measure.—(A laugh.) The Hon. Member for Winchester (Mr. B. Escott) had addressed a speech which ought not to have been delivered on those benches, far more fitting the Opposition, and whose only seconder should have been the Member for Bath (Mr. Roebuck). The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had at least placed his measure on intelligible grounds, and proposed to steer clear of religion. He (Mr. Colquhoun) doubted whether any circumstances should justify such a measure ; but, if they must have secular education, it was better not to aim at any delusion of religion which would misguide all and reconcile none. His only doubt was whether, by the improvement suggested in the 14th clause, the bye-laws which had been inserted in the Bill would lead to obnoxious religious instruction. He must say that his Right Hon. Friend, who had stated on a former occasion that the proposed system assimilated to the universi ties of Scotland, and still more to Trinity College, as re spected the Roman Catholic, had not been very fortunate in his comparison. He (Mr. Colquhoun) thought the scheme would afford a fair, good, and substantial education for the middle classes in Ireland ; but to say it was a university system of education was, in his opinion, perfectly ridiculous. The Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Department had said that when he was at Oxford he had received no religious instruc tion ; now, when he was at College, he was obliged not only to read sermons, hut occasionally to write them. But he would not place on these special grounds the difference existing between the university system of England and the peculiarities of the system which was about to be introduced into Ireland. He would ask what was it that gave life and energy to the system of edu cation in England ? It was the sermons that were read or the inculcation of the principles embodied in the thirty-nine articles. It was the pious example of the teachers, who as clergyman of the Church were respected and followed, not less from their high' position than from their prudent instructions and judicious behaviour. Look at the reformation that had been worked in the great school at Rugby by Dr. Arnold. He had effected there great changes by bringing to his work an earnest and energetic mind, and this in combination with his general demeanor had wrought powerfully as incentives to imitation on the pupils. He was afraid under the proposed system it would be impossible to prevent the junior scholars from being tainted with a smattering of some religion. The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Governmenthad alluded to the proceedings at Belfast College, but he would tell him that it was not the theological professors who had taught Arian doctrines —no, it was the professors of Greek and che mistry and who had introduced Arian opinions into their lec tures. It was very well to provide that in case any of the teachers employed in these colleges should mix up religious matters with what they might teach they should be liable to be discharged from their vocations. It was possible to hinder them from openly employing religious discussion, but how could the professor of Greek, or of astronomy, or of chemistry, be pre vented from conveying a significant allusion by means of a look, or a shrug, or a jocular remark? He would remind the Right Hon. Baronet that by this means an infidel professor might introduce principles of a most obnoxious character, and in the Bill as it stood the public were not safe from these re sults. To talk of the project as a collegiate education equal to the present university systems of either England, Scotland, or Ireland, was absurd in the extreme. If the principle was good let religion be altogether abolished from all our educational in stitutions—let this unconservative element be got rid of, and reduce all knowledge to Greek and mathematics. The Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government had applied the scheme under the peculiar circumstances in which Ireland was placed. His Right Hon. Friend, on a former occasion, had stated that the present system and the national system were the same. He (Mr. Colquhoun) con sidered that the difference was most material. One great dis tinction was, that the Government proposed to reserve to them selves the nomination of the professors. One of the principal objections which he had always made to the national system of education was, the power of appointing masters was practically placed in the hands of those who were not immediately respon sible to the Government. In the Committee which sat in the other House in 1837, on the National Education scheme, there were elicited many instances of the incapacity and inaptness of the persons who had been appointed masters. He would take one instance, which really presented a most curious illus tration of the working of that system of education. In the trial which had been quoted with so much humour by the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork, it appeared that Timothy Lynch, the schoolmaster, in conjuncti on w i t h M rs. P ee bl es, had succeeded i n h u mbugging the public as to his religion. This man had at times as many as 180 children committed to his charge, and he unblushingly admitted, in cross-examine tion on the trial, that he sometimes taught them to lie and cheat, and deceive people. He was a national school master appointed by a rev. gentleman, and the counsel, in his closing speech, alluded to the mistaken motives which had led to the appointment of so great a rascal to such a situa tion. That was a specimen of a national schoolmaster, and he had adduced it as a remarkable example of the unwhole some influence of those local agents to whom was committed the responsibility of appointing masters for th ose nat i ona l sc h oo l s. He trusted that her Majesty's Governme n t wou ld reta i n fi rm l y in their own hands the appointment of all professors, otherwise he should look with extreme distrust as to any practical be nefit resulting to Ireland from the scheme. Sir ROBERT Pe.EL confessed he really had not expected to hear, on the present occasion, the name of Mrs. Peebles in troduced. He did not thick that the Hon. Gentleman, in quoting Mrs. Peebles, had been very successful in showing that anythi ng wrong ex isted in the system of national educa tion in Ire'and, if out of 400,000 children who were instructed on the national system, he could adduce only one instance of a schoolmaster who was not competent to fulfil the duties of that office._( Hear, hear.) He thought there was no single civil or ecclesiastical institution which could boast of so small an amount of vicious regulation : but the subject of discussion had been departed from. The ques tion was not whether the Bill be now adopted, but it was the proposition of the Noble Lord the member for Hertford, and his Noble Friend who had proposed this motion—" That it is the opinion of this House that in the establishment of colleges in Ireland provision should be made for the religious instruction of the pupils by means of lecture fees, till such time as private benefacttons for that object may have taken effect." In bringing forward that motion his Noble Friend had admitted that the circumstances of liefandWe; difficult. He (Sir Pee!) did not tender his plan of the Government as a perfect and finished plan. He thought it would be a better plan if religion were made the foundation of education. He wished that the circumstances of the country admitted that in bringing forward this plan the religion of the State could be introduced. But looking at the peculiar condition of the country the infi nite diversity of opinion on religious matters that existed, he thought it would be best for the country that the education should be rather of a mixed character than an exclusive one. His Noble Friend thought it was advisable to extend the field of operations, and had said, if you establish three professorships of theology, one of each to he connected with the various religions—viz., one professor of the Established Church, another of the Roman Catholic religion, and a third who should inculcate Presbyterian doctrines—such a measure would have met with his decided support. But he (Sir R. Peel) would contend that if that principle was acted upon, professors for every sect and religion, however minute their distinctions, must be provided. He then proposed that pro vision for religious instruction should be made by means of levying lees from students, until private beneficence should afford the required instruction. He would make no perfect provision for the theological professors, but he proposed an in adequate and insufficient means for the purpose. On account of the diversity of religious opinion, the Government were un able to provide religious instruction that should satisfy the various demands of the different religionists of Ireland. The Government had given every sufficient inducement and encouragement both to professors and students. Twenty prizes, varying in value, would be offered to the students as in- - 7 " ".•••.• cry vaau • centives to th — eir emulati on . ~ He believed that in Ireland there was that deep religious feeling ex:sting among the Roman Ca. tholies that induced them to act on the voluntary principle for the support of the majority of their secular and religious insti tutions. It had been seen what had been done in this country by voluntary contr.butions, and he was satisfied that the Roman Catholics would continue to adhere to the voluntary principle. The pupils, brought in contact with eminent professors, were much more likely to imbibe religious feelings than if they were left to the subjection of other influences. He was sure that the parents, or the theological heads of the Church, would provide much better for the religious instruction of the students. Take Cork, for instance. Were they to presume that the Rorinan Catholic clergy of that city, or the wealthy Roman Catholics of that place, would nr t provide for the spiritual instruction of the pupils at the college proposed to be established there ? He was sure that the religions instruction would be better provided for by trust ing to such resources, than by subjecting the students, as ad vocated by the Noble Lord (Lord Mahon). to a compulsory payment on their entering the college.—( Hear, hear.) The plan of the Noble Lord would require that a high sum for religious instruction would have to be raised, either at the I expense of the parents who sent children to those colleges, or by the Church to which the students belonged. Now he would ask what particular form of worship was to be observed, and were the pupils to be compelled to give their attendance? To apprehend the difficulties, let them look at the unfortunate differences at present existing in the Church of England. Sup posing a professor giving theological lectures in the University of Oxford, would it be right to force every student to attend such lectures, irrespective of what particular part the lecturer might take in the questions that were agitating and exciting the Church ? Would it not he better for parents and guardians to have the power of regulating the attendance of those entrusted to their care, upon such theolo gical lectures.—( Hear.) S o w ith th e R oman C at h o li cs o f Ireland. They (the Government) therefore made in this Bill the attendance on theological lectures voluntary. Would they enforce attendance on the part of the students, and if they would not, would they enforce payment ? If they did, they would, he was sure, i atroduce into the measure a great cause of dissension and ill feeling.—( Hear, hear.) He did hope that the House, on due reflection, seeing all the difficulties of the question, would leave theological instruction at these instittie Lions to the operation of the voluntary principle. Any attempt at a middle course between the two principles of religious en dowment or non-endowment would not be accompanied with any corresponding advantage. He had been blamed with not consulting the ecclesiastical authorities in the framing of this Bill, but experience had convinced him that in that course he had done right. Had he done otherwise it would not have been likely that he could have agreed with any measure that would have pleased such authorities.—( Hear, hear.) The Roman Catholic prelates had insisted that the professors of geology and anatomy should be Roman Catholics. Had the Government submitted the measure to an authority of that kind, would it have been right to adopt such a suggestion ? ( Hear, hear.) He never would have sanctioned such a prin ciple. He considered that anatomy might be very well learned from a Protestant, or geology from a Roman Catholic, with out any danger to the faith of the student.—( Hear, hear. ) What would a philosopher of old think of our religion, had he been told that the principles of abstract science could not be learned without interfering with its doctrines. Should the Roman Catholic youths of last century be told that they could not be present at the lectures of John Hunter, a Protestant, without endangering their faith, or that the students of the present day should avoid the teachings of Sir Benjamin Brodie, or Sir Philip Crampton, from the same cause. Mr. O'CONNELL said he could inform the Right Hon. Baronet that Sir Philip Crampton had, in the course of a lec ture he delivered in Dublin, introduced one of the grossest calumnies against the head of the Roman Catholic Church. Sir ROBERT PEEL—Were anything of that kind to take place under the provisions of the Bill before the House the professor would be removed.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped, how ever, the statement made by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman respecting Sir Philip Crampton was not correct. If it were so he (Sir R. Peel). at all events, had never heard of the fact alluded to. That gentleman (Sir Philip Crampton) held the highest character for scientific attainments and private charac ter, and he was persuaded would not have done anything cal culated to wound the religious feelings of his Roman Catholic hrethrens Mr. O'CONNELL admitted that Sir Philip Crampton was a very eminent man, and a man most exemplary in all the affairs of life; yet he certainly did accuse the head of the Roman Catholic church with committing one of the grossest acts of persecution. He (Mr. O'Connell) would, however, say that a letter was published in reply to the Learned Gen tleman's accusation, showing diet the charge was without foun dation, on which Sir Phillip Crampton came forward and admitted that he was in the wrong. Sir ROBERT PEEL said he • had mentioned that Learned Gentleman's name because he was a gentleman of most comprehensive mind and eminent for his scien tific acquirements. He (Sir Robert Peel) had never, he must again say, heard of the circumstance to which the Hcn. and Learned Gentleman alluded ; but, certainly, he could easily conceive how a professor, speaking of Galileo, should say something against the Roman Catholic Church, and make use of remarks unpalatable to the believers in the Roman Catholic faith. It was, therefore, possible that the Learned Gentleman to whom allusion had been made, in the course of his teachings, might have made, in elucidating the history of the science of which he was a professor, some re ferences to an instance of persecution proceeding from the head of the Roman Catholic Church ; still, he ( Sir Robert Peel) would beg leave to suspend his judgment till he had seen the lecture referred to. But, even admitting that the reference in question had been made, he considered it might be perfectly admissible with a sincere and studious desire to arrive at truth. —( Hear, hear.) If such were the state of feeling in Ireland that public men could not state a fact in reference to the subject they were appointed to teach, without giving offence to the Roman Catholics, he held it was necessary to lay the foundation of a better system, in order, if possible, to put an end to religious differences. The present measure afforded better hope of future harmony than if they had placed the appointment of the professors under the spiritual authority of the Roman Catholic Church . He admitted that they were open to the objection that they had not consulted the eccle siastical authorities. In a letter addressed to him by Arch bishop M'Hale, that Prelate thus spoke of the motives which influenced the Gevernment. He said " They were se conding a selfish scheme of mercenary infidels that were springing up in the country, who, under an affected zeal for education, would not hesitate to advocate Mahometenism. if they could obtain:access to the patronage of the Lords of the Treasury." Suppose they had taken the opinion of Arch bishop M'Hale; he was afraid he would have incurred the risk either of abandoning the plan altogether, or of treating the opinions of Dr. M'Hale with disrespect.—( Hear, hear. ) Then with respect to the Presbyterians, he had received a few days ago a letter from one very high in authority in that Church, which he would read to them :--" Sir James Graham appears to intimate that all religions will be represented in the Colleges; but if he might express an opinion it would be that :f there were one Unitarian or Roman Catholic professor over the undergraduate course the GenerallAssembly would withdraw all their students.—(Laughter.) Of the result I entertain no doubt, that an Episcopalian profersor of the Church of Eng land might be borne, but the appointment of a Roman Catholic or Unitarian professor of anatomy or astronomy would lead to the withdrawal of every student." He felt perfectly cer tain that these ecclesiastical denunciations would be of no avail. He believed that they would rather provoke a fair and liberal spirit among men--a spirit more in consonance, as it appeared to him, with the true genius of the Christian religion. He thought that after the lapse of some time there would be no ob jection to receive instruction of a secular nature from professors of eminence, whatever their religious creed might be, provided there would be full security that no advantage would be taken of that sacred office for the purpose of undermining the faith of the young men who resorted there for instruction. With respect to infidelity, the Roman Catholics had not stronger reasons for opposing its progress than the Protestants.-- ( Hear, bear, hear.) There could not not be a stronger guarantee against the introduction of infidelity than the fact that the power over these institutions lay in a Protestant state. With respect to the insinuation that doc trines favourable to any particular class would be propagated, he could not think that theological doctrines would be broached in the shape of secular lectures on abstract science. His per suasion was that apprehensions on that head were entirely groundless. Practical testimony had been borne to this by those educated in Trinity College—conclusive testimony. The Hoa. Member for Waterford, the Hon. Member fur Kerry, and the Right Hen. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Dungarvon had been educated in Trinity College, Dublin, where.the lecturers belonged to the established Church, with the exception of two, who were Catholics. What was their testimony ?—And let it be recollected that Trinity College was an almost exclusively Protestant institution. They had been four years within its walls, but yet they felt bound to say that from no professor had they ever heard a word disrespectful to the Roman Catholic religion, had they ever witnessed a single attempt to gain an advantage over Protestants or Roman Catholics. If that was true in an exclusively Protestant university, were not their apprehensions groundless respecting new institutions not endowed with an exclusively Protestant spirit as having that tendency—( Cries of "Hear, hear ") where there was no test, and where, so far as secular education was concerned, the principle was to give no preference to any religious creed.—( Hear, hear.) Was it right, he repeated, after the experience of Trinity College Dublin, to credit such insinuations against her professors? He did hope, from the petitions he had presented in approval of the Government plan, that, notwithstanding the symptoms of hostility manifested by such men as Dr. Murray and Dr. Crolly, that the majority of the Roman Catholic Prelates would ultimately lend their cordial co-operation, which he considered would be most important to the success of the measure—he did hope that the opinions of the great body of the laity would in the end be favourable to it, and he would not despair that the Roman Catholic prelates of Ireland, when they felt assured that no advantage would be taken of the system of secular in struction—that every opportunity would be afforded for reli gious instruction, according to the tenets of each Church within the walls of the college—he did hope that, there being such a manifest defect in the system of academical education in Ireland, the plan was, on the whole, a great boon to the country, calculated to carry further the inestimable blessings founded on education, and to lay the foundation of a better and a kindlier feeling among that youth, which was to form the future manhood of Ireland.—( Cheers. ) Mr. O'CONNELL then rose, and the House was instantly silent and attentive. He said--Sir, lam aware that we have already avoided, in a great measure, the real point of dispute, and travelled out of the proper line of argument in the recent discussion ; otherwise I would have risen at an earlier period to express my opinions in a few sentences regarding what I consider to be the merits and demerits of the measure. Before doing so, however, I must say a word or two respecting an al lusion that has been made to Sir Philip Crampton. I wish to bear my humble testimony to the excellence of that man, and to free myself from the supposition that I would have insinuated anything derogatory to the character of that estimable and amiable gentleman. He certainly mistook an hi .torical fact, and in doing so was guilty of great injustice to the Roman Catholic Church ; but at the time he did so he was unconscious of what he stated being untrue ; and when Doctor Miley, a Roman Catholic clergyman, represented the fact, as they really were, he vindicated his high character by retracting his assertion, that Rome had beers ini mical to the advancement of science. Ido not mean to detain the House more than a few minutes; but I really would wish to say a word or two about Galileo.—( Laughter.) The general idea is that he was imprisoned for advocating the Copernican system, but, in point of feet, he was only imprisoned by the Inquisition for three days. So far from being sent to prison for promulgating the doctrine of Copernicus, the Pope enabled C srpernicus to publish his discoveries. Galileo was impri soned for a different thing—that the theory of the revolution of the earth could be proved out of Scripture. He was told he must not preach this doctrine, but was permitted to state that there was nothing inconsistent in the Scriptures with the Co pernican theory ; for obstinacy Galileo was sent to prison for three days ; and there is the entire history of that popular legend so fondly cherished by those of an opposite creed, that though Galileo was imprisoned the world goes round still. But, turning to the Bill before us, Sir, I do not mean to ar raign the motives which actuated the present Government in bringing forward this Bill. Almost all our actions admit of the assignment of a motive, and I believe the motive of the Government in bringing forward this Bill was to conciliate Ireland. I freely admit that. The Hon. Member for Win chester, who paid me so high a compliment, and attributed so much power to me, talked of what the Government had done for Ireland, but I would like to know what other measure at all favourable to lreland had been brought forward by the Go vernment, or now lies before either House of Parliament. I dare say the Government will last all the longer for it.—( A laugh.) Sir, I say Ireland is a frightful state. There is most decided evidence of that fact in Lord Devon's late Commission. In 1830, Spring Rice showed great distress and destitution, but was full of hope that the condition of the people would be speedily ameliorated. In 1834, the Poor-law Commission stated the frightful fact that 2,300,000 of the Irish people were in a state of destitution. The late Com mission stated that 4,500,000—m0re than one half of the population—is in this condition, badly clad, badly housed, badly paid. their food potatoes, their drink water, their bed straw and perhaps a tattered blanket. That is the condition of Ireland, and I am sorry that I should be obliged to trespass one moment on your attention with a subject so full of horror. The report of Lord Devon on this subject is stated to he in correct. If it is incorrect, it is that it is not higher charged, and there is no hope of amelioration held out except by a change of measures. Recollect, also, that the agrarian dis turbances in Ireland committed year after, the murders com mitted by the excited tenantry—tenantry, or their friends, swept into the ditches, are on the increase. These disturbances are at present extensive in the county of Roscommon, in Leitrim, and in Antrim, and in Fermanagh two horrid murders had been committed under this agrarian system, last year. Are Gentlemen of the House of Commons aware that this is the real situation of Ireland ? They cannot possibly doubt it. The evidence is most conclusive. There cannot be a doubt of it entertained by any one. And here you talk of meting out a scholastic boon when the people are starving.— ( Hear, hear.) Oh, don't kick up a din—don't make a merit of bringing in a Bill to benefit the Irish out of the capital themselves have saved. This is a case for the Queen's Govern ment —.a case in which they should claim and obtain the assist ance of every honest man.—( Cheers.) When I addressed this House last year, 1 asked the Queen's Government what they intended to do for Ireland ? No matter what might become of me. I asked what they intended to do for Ireland ? They had schemes of their own for the suppression of grievances ; but they did nothing for Ireland.— ( Hear, hear, and cheers.) I got no response then, and I again ask them now, what they intend to do for Ireland ? I feel exceedingly gratified by the kind attentions of the Hon. Member for Winchester.—( Hear, hear, and Cheers.) He had determined to give this measure his support wisely and deter minedly; and I do believe that, setting aside religious diffe rences, the English members have, with great manliness, taken a liberal interest in a change of the system. But it will be of no use to make eloquent speeches such as I listened to a few minutes ago. You are listened to and have your triumph here ; but all that won't do ; and therefore I say, that you, the strongest Ministry which has yet existed, have all in your own power. You excuse yourselves for not having consulted the ecclesiastical party in Ireland before bringing on this Bill. What harm would it have done to have consulted them ? It would not have bound your opinion, and, therefore, it could not have done any harm to have con sulted them. I tell you that you must introduce religion in your measure or it will not be received by the people of Ireland. We are essentially religious; and, however much we may differ on points of religion, infidelity is unknown in Ireland; there fore I say, make religion the basis of your proceedings, and you may test assured that you will have the protection of a higher power; but do not flatter yourselves that you can in troduce any measures conciliating to the people of Ireland if you exclude religion from your plan. Give Protestantism to Pro testants, give Catholicism to Catholics. I want nothing ex clusive for the Catholics that the Protestants have not an equal right to ; but let the same justice be done to all. Intro duce religious instruction into your colleges, hut let the same fair play be shown to all. Give them religious instruction and the chances are, that that which is dominant—the charity of God and lave to man—will predominate, and aided, by fair play, and justice will give a prospect of effecting that reconciliation so desired by all.—(Cheers.) If you fail in this scheme of reli gious education—l say, that even if you fail—you will have fallen in a majestic attempt to inculcate Christian duty ; but if you make the attempt in the right direction, I fear not for the result. It has been shown that. the Catholic Bishops of Ireland have pronounced your Bill to he dangerous and immoral, and though you may treat their decision with levity, remember that six millions of the people of Ireland treat it with respect.— (Cheers.) Recollect, that when you come to talk of educating the Catholics, they pay attention to the decision of their bishops. The bishops tell you that your scheme is dangerous and immo ral, and they wished to prevent it s wor ki ng out an i mproper purpose. They had two Protestant professors of divinity in the College of Belfast, one a Unitarian, and one what they termed the Orthodox. If you want protection iu the Presby terians they have it, but the Roman Catholic Bishops require the means of protecting themselves. You tell me that if the Professor preaches infidelity you can dismiss him, but the Ca tholic Bishop says we will run no such risk. These are the grounds on which we stand, and the objection is not an imagi nary on. The Protestant professors in Belfast have been accused of introducing into their lectures matters favourable to Unitarianism, and thi' danger is not an imaginary one. Sir R. PEEL, as we understood.—Which of the professors did so ? Mr. O'CONNELL—The Professors give, no doubt, their own views in their lectures. I mean the chair of moral philosophy. Mr. COLQUHOUN made a remark which was inaudible in the gallery. Mr. O'CONNELL—The ecclesiastical teacher and pro fessor of Greek. Now, if the fact be so, what an excellent argument might be used in this House, " Do you speak of the Professor of Greek? oh, he is only a teacher of languages." Are the Catholic Bishops to be subject to the caprices of a Minister? Have they time to examine into the qualifications of the professor of anatomy, or of any of the sciences. The Catholic prelates are now assembled, and you can communi cate with them. At present they have denounced your Bill as dangerous and criminal, and no Roman Catholic will be found to support it. You deserve credit for the manner in which you carried out another measure respecting Ireland, and though I were not here to express my gratitude, I cannot conceal that that measure was dictated by fair play and justice. Sir, it has been well said, " that education is power." But it is a power of that kind that we cannot be too jealous of the hands in which it is placed.—( Cheers.) Ido not blame those who think that a mixed education is the better.—( Hear, hear. ) But I think that in such cases as yon choose to make the ex periment, the religion of all should be respected.---( Hear, hear.) I think that all parties could meet in a mixed educa tion of general philosophy and physical science, if the religion of each was respected.—( Hear, hear.) There is one part of this project which appears to many to be very formidable, and especially to me who am a thorough Radical.—(Cheers and a laugh.) But, as we have always found that the smuggler is the best corrector of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, so do I think that the encouragement given by this measure to contraband teaching will bring the Govern ment to see the necessity of making religious teaching legiti mate and authorised.—( Laughter and cheers.) I have done. I did not intend to trespass upon the House.—( Hear, hear. 1 It is my wish to render this measure such as would ensure success.—( Cheers.) I think that you cannot expect to make it suosessful, unless you attain the support of the Catholic Bishops, who have six millions of the people under their cure. —( Hear.) I think the Bill may be made useful. But I think there ought to be no pressing of the Committee just now. I trust that we may have a few days' delay, which can make no difference of any moment, whereas the delay would have mportant effects.—( Hear.) It is now past eleven o'clock. and I trust the Committee will not be pressed. If it is, I will divide the House. lam desirous of taking part in every mea sure which may so improve the Bill as to enable me to give it my support.—( Hear.) I would de anything to put an end to the'disaffection in that country.—(Much cheering.) But, Sir, there is great physical suffering in that country, which may lead to the most frightful evils, before many of us here shall have been months in our graves. ( The Hon. and Learned Gentlemen sat down amidst loud cheering. ) Sir R. INGLIS had not intended to trouble the House, nor would he have done so but for the statement of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman respecting the case of Galileo. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had said that it was by the as sistance of the Sovereign Pontiff that Galileo was enabled to establish the truth of the Copernican system. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman must have counted upon the ignorance of the Houre when he made that statement.—( Cheers and laughter.) He must have thought that no one but himself ever knew the history of Galileo—(Cheers and a laugh)—or that if other Members had ever known that history they must by this time have forgotten it.—(A laugh.) The Hon. Gentleman ascribed to Leo the Fifth the power of punishing and of afterwards assisting Galileo ; but the fact was that Galileo was imprisoned in 1615, and Leo the Fifth did not commence to reign until 1645.—( Hear, hear.) He thought the Hon. and Learned Gentleman trusted to the luck of the moment, and relied to the absence of historial memory from the House.—(Cheers and laughter.) Any one who knew the history •f Galileo would recollect that it was not because his doctrine was opposed to the Scriptures that he was punished, but because they were opposed to the Church.—(Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman said that Galileo was in prison but three days, instead of three years. The time made little difference ; but the fact was, that Galileo was imprisoned in 1615, and he was still there in 1617.—(Cheers and a laugh.) The Right Hon. Baronet again apolo g ised for having risen at all, and thank e d th e H ouse for its indulgence.—( Hear.) Mr. O'CONNELL begged leave to explain. The Right Hon. Baronet had misunderstood him, or had not heard him, for he had said that Pope Leo V. was a Cardinal at the time when Galileo was imprisoned.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. S. CRAWFORD rose amidst loud cries of" Divide." He was disposed to regard the Government measure as one of great benefit to the people of Ireland. The assertion of the Hnn. Member (Mr. O'Connell) that the people of Ireland were bound by the opinions and doctrines of the Roman Catholic Bishops was an aspersion on the people of that country, who instead of being held in such a domination by any man, or any body of men, whatever might be their influence, ought to act and think for themselves. He was of opinion that the Land lords and Tenants Bill, in its present form, would not satisfy the wants of the people of Leland. He should support the measure of the Government. Sir A. BROOKE wished to correct a statement which had been made by the Hon. Member (Mr. O'Connell), that two murders had recently been committed in the county of Fer managh. Not only had no murder been committed recently, but within the memory of man no murder had been caused through agrarian disturbances. He did not mean to say that there had not been threatening notices, but during the last twenty years he did not believe there had been either an agra rian outrage or a murder.—( Hear, hear. ) Lord C. HAMILTON said the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) during a great part of his address wished to show that he was doing the bidding of others, and said that all he wanted was fair play. lie (Lord C. Hamilton) was of opi nion that many measures which had been proposed for the benefit of Ireland, had been opposed and ultimately defeated by these whom they were intended to be nefit. If the whole conduct of the Government had not evinced fair play, he hoped the Hon. Gentleman, when he next addressed the House, would give his definition of it. He admitted that he had correctly pictured the mserable condi tiee of the people, but it should be borne in mind that the Ro man Catholic Church received a revenue, in proportion to their number, larger than any other country, and it should be also recollected that large sums were raised from the popula tion to aid that agitation which the Hon. Member thought necessary. He was of opinion that the choice of those to edu cate youth should be left to their parents and guardians. Mr. HOPE said that it was his opinion that as this amend ment was opposed entirely to the Bill, it was entitled to the support of those who opposed the measure. Mr. SHAW said that he would feel great reluctance in op posing the motion of his Noble Friend. He could perceive no difference between endowing their theological professors out of the Consolidated Fund and obliging them to he main tained by means of compulsory fees. He should therefore op pose the amendment. Mr. HINDLEY rose, amidst loud cries of "Oh, oh," and " Divide." He said, that having presented 1,200 petitions against the Maynooth grant, as opposed to the voluntary sys tems, and the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork having as serted in his place in that House, on a former occasion, when that grant was opposed by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln, that if pressed to a division he would vote against it, on the voluntary principle, he did not think that he was now justified in stating that those petitions had raised a senseless clamour. He desired to know if the Hon. and Learned Gen tleman still adhered to that opinion. Mr. O'CONNELL said that he certainly included the peti tions presented by the Hon. Gentleman, and he could produce fifty of them to-morrow, containing the most outrageous calum nies against the Roman Catholic religion. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the amendment 49 Against it ........... Majority -140 On our re-admission to the gallery we found Mr. WYSE on his legs, stating that he was willing to post pone a motion which he had on the paper for that evening re specting the professorships of the intended colleges, till the bringing up of the report in the Committee. - Mr. O'CONNELL hoped that the amendments would be printed, and that all further proceedings on the measure would be postponed till that day week. Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought the suggestion of the Hon. Gentleman a good one, and hoped the Right Hon. Ba ronet would accede to it. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he was perfectly ready to go on, but in compliance with the wish which had been ex pressed, he had no objection to accede to the application. LUNATIC ASYLUM AND PAUPER LUNATICS BILL. Lord ASHLEY moved the second reading of this Bill. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, after a period of ten years, it had been proposed that this system should be altered. Five years had been proposed, but he thought that ten years would be a better period. Mr. BARNEBY was only anxious that there should be a complete fulfilment of the object.—( Order, order.) Sir JAMES GRA HAM was only anxious for a fair state ment of the case, and if any special case were to be made out, it might be considered when the Bill went into Committee. Lord ASHLEY only desired that the Bill should be read a second time pro forma, but he would desire that it should be committed to-morrow. The Rill was then read a second time. PAUPER LUNATIC ASYLUM BILL (SCOTLAND). On the motion that this Bill be read a second time, an How. MEMBER said that he thought it would be only•right to con sider how the interests of the poor should be cared for. Lord ASHLEY said that in this Bill every care had been taken to make the Bill as perfect as possible, and he thought the Bill might safely be read a second time. Mr. ESCOTT was proceeding to say a few words, when he was corrected by Sir JAMES GRAHAM, who told him that the Hon. Member must be under some misapprehension, as the two Bills did not go together. The Bills were then read a second time. IRISH LUNATIC ASYLUMS BILL. Upon the motion that the Speaker do now leave the chair, Mr. BROTHERTON objected, as he said he foresaw the speech the Noble Lord near him (Lord Clements) would make.—( Laughter.) Sir T. FREMANTLE hoped the Bill would be allowed to be proceeded with. The further consideration of the Bill was then postponed. The House then went into Committee en the Timber Ships Bill. The clauses were all agreed to without any discussion , and the Bill was reported. The Assessed Taxes Composition Bill passed through Com mittee. The Bills of Exchange Bill was postponed till Wednesday. The West India Islands Bill was reported. SIR HENRY POTTINGER. The report on Sir Henry Pottinger's Annuity Bill ems brought up and laid on the table. On the report of the Seal-office Abolition 811 being broiight up, An HoN. MEmuxa observed that forty Members were not present. and moved that the House be counted. and The House was acco rdingly cleared for a division, _ thirty-nine havin g b een f oun d present, when Sir J . Gramm! entered just in time to be counted as the fortieth, amid loud cheers and laughter. The Bill was then reported. COMMONS ENCLOSURE (ALLOWANCES) BILL. This Bill was al s o re p or t e d, an d the House adjourned at half past Twelve. PARLIAMEN TAkY .OIVISIO (Front the Votes and Proceedings of the House Pi C° lnra.4l.l MONDAY, JUNE :23. COLLEGES (IRELAND) BILL. _,,,,„ii Proposed, Order for Committee read ; Motion made, and Qutv„ - d n ienr Prr. That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair :"—•t u l e ..,p Questi o "' posed, to leave out from the word " That" to the end 0 ' `''''.., that la in order to add the words, " it is the opinion of this 11°U .,N, made the establishment of Colleges in Ireland, provision 1 sfhluecture FeeS, for the religious instruction of the pupils by means 0- - ~„,,,e taken. till such Hole as private benefactions for that object in3Y '"" firo posea effect," instead thereof :—Question put, " That the word s 1 ; ~.. to be left out stand part of the Question." The House rlli r l deu MAJORITY—AYES, 189. Lord Ackers, James Elphinetone, H. IC°rr : Y : ', Sir PgeoUnt A'Court, Captain Esc o tt, Bickham -;•.TorrYN ort hland, I' i Aldam, William Ferguson, Sir R. Oswald, Janie, Bailie, Walter Fitzroy, Henry Baird, W lliam Peel, Jonui Barkly, Henry Forman, T. S. Flower, Sir James Pi iiiDOS a ll ' -*if!' Baring, F. 'l'. Forster, Matthew -- 1 •. d e , Cap. Baring, W. B. Fremantle, Sir T. Pluturi g_ . Barnard, E. G. Gaskell, J. M. Colonel Barneby, John Gladstone, W. E E. Pawel , Freed, AleWuder Barrington. Viscount Gordon, Captain pringle , Bateson, Thomas Gore, Montague PuseY. PhillPv. j. Bellew, R.:M. Goulburn, 11. Reptom G• N olo el n Benbow, John ' Graham, Sir J. B aotou, C d , itentinck, Lord G. Granger, T. C. Roes' P3vi rd J. Illackburne. J. I. Greene, T. Russell Bodkin, Wm. Henry Gregory, W. H. u ''''' G. D• Richard Boldero, H. G. Grimston, V scount Ryder, N i c ,,..- Snderson', 0 Polhill, Fred,ri.el' Borthwiek, Peter Hamiton, Lord C. ur b it . Botfleld, Eeriall Hamner, Sir J. Sern ° ,.' e deriolt Shaw, „. Bowes, John Harcourt, G. G. Smith, T. 13. i., Bowles, Admiral Harris, Captain peel' Sir ILlian mnolleit , A l,,rd O. Bowring, Dr. Hawes, Benjamin ` rset, -.•- if, Boyd, John Hayes, Sir Edmund Seine oue, Sir l" Bright, John lleneage, 0. H. S ou Brisco, M. Ilerbert, Sidney Sonl es ' l e ic P b h ar d spoone_r . : , s i r a. Broadwood, Henry llervey, Lord A. sta unto , ..,_,,,, Brooke, Sir A. IlindleY, Charles Stewar , .!0_,..7. Brotherton, J. Hobhouse, Sir J. Stuart, 11,1:, Bruce, Lord E. Hodgson, F. Steil, IL n ry Bulkeley, Sir It. Hogg, J W 4 o e 11 Sutton, lie w. Buller, Edward Holes, W. A'Court red, . j. E. Banbury, Thomas H o p e , Ch ar l es Tenncn," sir F• Burroughs, 11. ,N. Hope, G. W. , rnes iscr, ti do-man Cardwell, Edward Hotham, Lord on, "-' TboinPe co rge Castlereagh, Viscount Hughes, W. B. Chelsea, Viscount Hutt, William Tower , John Christie, W. D. Irton, Samuel To yneleY, , Chute, W. L. Jerinyn, Earl Thorni li c il i ; r i;topher Clay, Sir W. Jervis, John , i , -elawILY , I . Clements, Viscount Jocelyn, Viscount -` - Sir - • TrolloPe, Clerk, Sir George Jones, Captain John Trotter, as Clive, It. H. Kirk, Peter VeseY , rill°nl les Cobden, Richard Langston, J. H. Villiers, Char Viscount Cockburn, Sir G. Lennox, Lord A. . Vise° Vibe. , Collett, W. It. Liddell, H. T. j, H. 'Vivian, _ Collins, William Lincoln, Earl of • J . En nm Vivian , *,,,,mas Traill , Copeland, Alderman Loch, James .„,.. ak i e y, ....• Corry, Henry Lockhart, William " ton Henri Wattur , Craig, W. G. Lygon, General Ww 'Tn. V. Crawford, W. S. Mackenzie, T. welby ‘-'• -- Cripps, William Mackenzie, W. F - - ' Lord C. Wellesley, Darner, Colonel Maclean, Donald Darby, George Lord C. S Manners, S. Geor.e s Willitns, N _. _. Davis, David A. S. llarjoribanks, S. Winnington, Sra,T__,, Dawnay, W. H. Marsland, Henry Wodehouse, LL.ou" Denison, John E. Martin, John Wood, Colonel T Dermistoun, J. Martin, C. W. AVoslsleY, s. Drummond, H. H. Martin, T. B. ,„, dey 'Janes Duncombe, T. Masterrnan, John , T° r- ' K. Yorke, IdeelrY Duncombe, A. Mitchell, T. A. TELLKB.s. Illgerton, W. T. Morgan, 0. Young, Joi] B erton, Sir P. Morison, General White, Baring , ll eart Ellis, Wynn Nicholl, John Henry MINORITY—NOES, 49. Acheson, Viscount Dickinson, F. H. O'Brien, W. S. Adore, Viscount Du I're, C. G. O'Connell, P. ,• Adderley, C. B. Esmonde, Sir Thos. O'Connell, It! J. Anson, Colonel Estcourt, T. G. B. O'Connell. J. Antrobus, Edmund Fitzroy, Lord C. Ogle, S. C. Austen, Colonel Gladstone, Captain Itaslileqh, W. Baring, Thomas Wynne, Sir S. Bowdon, Col. Barron, Sir H. W. Hope, A. Roche, E. B. Blake, M. J. Howard, P. H. Sheridan, R. B• Blake, Sir V. James, Sir Walter Somers, J. P . Browne, R. D. Knight, F. W. Sotheron, T. ii• Carew, W. H. P. Lambton, H. Vane, Lord o. d Chapman, B. M`Geachy, F. A. Wortley, John '' Clive, Viscount Maher, N. Colvile, C. R. Manners,:Lord J. Courtenay, Lord Morris, David 1 3 1 1 ,y ah se o , t1, I.l3llNl:linslclas:u.ni Cowper, W. P. Dawson, T. V. Murphy, F. S. O'Brien, J. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE TA TTE RSA LL'S.—YasTERDAY. precosenn.i. If we may judge from the number of subscrib ers yesterday afternoon, speculation at Newcastle will be s lur fined to a very limited circle; nor was the attendance , gether without effect, the betting, if on a moderate s cale, r e , ing touched upon all the races now in the market--theefusey Plrally small amount of the investments, renders it tion e . ) ,, that we should append any explanatory observations t° lowing retarn of the closing prices:— THE NORTHUMBERLAND PLATE. 7 to 4 agst Dawson's lot 7 to 2 agst Mr. Meiklam's Lightning—tak en 11 to 2 agst Mr. Meiklam's Inheritress 7 to I agst Lord Zetland's Coheiress—take n 8 to 1 agst Colonel Cradock's Pagan—taken taken 10 to 1 agst Mr. Cuthbert's Queen of the Tyn e-- 10 to 1 agst Mr. Shafto's Porto Bello , t vrs 10 to 1 agst Major Yarburgles Little John, - 20 to 2 agst Captain Potts' Northumberlan d 20 to 1 agst Mr. Meiklam's Godfrey 25 to I agst Mr. Standish's Little Hampton , GOODWOOD STAKES.-• (ACCEPT OR NOT_i,en 16 to 1 agst Mr. V. Go u ld na Pine Apple` 20 to 1 agst Mr. Vaughan's na Bob reel 20 to 1 agst Mr. Bell's na Winesour ken 25 to 1 agst Mr. A. W. Hill's The Libel--ta 25 to 1 agst Payne's Queen Mab—taken _taken 25 to 1 agst Mr. Wesley's ch g by Mun w, g Even betting on the field agst 22. GOODWOOD CUP. 7 to 1 agst Mr. A. W. Hill's Ironmaster. but The Golden Rule was ba c ked at 18, 16, and 14 to, s igh' was afterwards declared to have been scratched, a' o'clock on Friday evening last. ST. LEGER. 6 to 1 agst Mr. Gully's Weatherbit r larc h 7 to 1 agst Mr. Gratwieke's The Merry 10 to 1 agst Mr. Gully's Old England 10 to 1 agst Mr. St. Paul's Mentor ta ken 20 to 1 agst Mr. Irwin's Connaught Ranger-- 20 to 1 agst Mr. Watts's The Baron 25 to 1 agst Mr. Mostyn's Pantasa—tak en 25 to 1 agst Colonel Anson's Kedger--takeu [,OOO to 15 agst Lord Stradbroke's Idas THE DERBY. 20 to I agst Mr. Forth's Sting 25 to 1 agst Gen. Shubrick's Brocardo 40 to 1 agst Duke of Richmond's Tug -Ne i ' 40 to 1 agst Mr. O'Brien's Traveller 50 to 1 agst Mr. John Day's Cambaules he peg THE WHITE SLAVE. The author 0 f t- Whi te romance just published, under the title of " The 4ider eti h e ea- i s & Slave," has introduced the reader to what tntlz',';i i torf • a new path in the wide field of ima ination. '"' s reo of s''" most extraordinary one, for it consists of the a dvent! fooiliar tot rain beautiful Marchioness, whose name must b r . n its t. every every visitor of the French capital who has mire d r o l o rt °f - of society. Her husband was Ambassador to the 931 0 ; ib Petersburgh, where, in an early period, when IneV i oet fashion, mingling in the gaieties of that gal - esO te JeS her in the strange condition of a slave on one of the be si his Russian friend, Prince Tsaakoff. The i 'vi P „ O ar the a ttr , ctions of a very romantic story, conveYs - The 01° . t of the world of fashion in the capital of the Czar' been b e petency of the author to treat such a subject bat te w ork , satisfactorily established by the success of the zu' i nossiz' b published a short time since, called " Revelations ° lie ifit Mr. Dean, Chairman of the Customs, had an in ter the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday.__. narratice.,d ictor. BTR TE IS. 1 Tel ler On the 10th inst., at Naples, the lady of Sa muel Prior, Esq., of a son. 11s, SO°. On the 19th inst., Mrs. Edmund Davies, of ire l' set, of a son. o f tb• la"" „ On the 19th inst., at Letton, Herefordshire, the Oa an the ee 20th h h i i n u a s t t. :a a t t LElti.althokim,ffilailrl,s.EJa.selxV7llole' ‘, f J°l - Henry Blisset, of a son White Cater, Esq.,. of a soy. Aof so soe• u4 Rev.On I th . e n 2 . othinst., at Hattie) Middlesex:h:La:if. 13f tile r Winbolt, of a daugh .. ter. On the 20th inst., at Tottenham., Mrs. John pea rid 0 4 oi , a son. , goof i On the 21st i s n a s a. t., at Sussex-place, Kensington, lir Vizetelly, of a to 11A. lilt/ ?fa). ' Doroth 1, o On the 18th inst., at 'lwickenhant Church4,o7oooo e 1 oesiom2nngdl eyosiftzdt tahalue, h e t e t r O O p f o t r h t a o , 13 a ß r o a b n e e r a t s Bev of Little Strawberry-hill, Middlesex. Georg e , 0 - On the 20th inst. at St. Mary's, Woolwich, 0 „,, ke wick, Esq., of the A'dmiralty, Somerset House, to ,f o l 3 l 3„tili .g'jhattear onfotnh.e alnadteßS;illiaEm. jbalies' °4.' w iEi i de c Ol k 'e: , an o r' n dtyi l l y child of W. Rutherford, Esq., of the I , ' . 7 taryAcati2l2-2 _ , Woolwich. :;":mvzienl a l e r r . , ::::: ii , 0 a 30 4 amier Gard a, On the 24th of April, at Calcutta. Alex Adam s Pr On e sidenthe Sureon. cy g 15th inst., at Bowdon, Totnes, Willis° Welsfor Esq. i of Exeter. Esq.' On th d, e 16th in t., Th om as Cooper Lakin, ~eed9 4, ' Croescentn the Birminham. oatiie l7 lB th a i i ns g i a t. s , t a . , t Leicester. c ß es a t t e h r : Jivoihran. L E a i t i v z T b n e • t E b NI go 0 , o f Queen's-parade, aged 86. a the ()LiStt a nd reunli MIJIWO so. No. 112, ;Aram', Pr mter. nad at, The Ss* 010 cer „ nas ty 01 Lon6o rintQd Strand. in the Precinct of the S av oy, in. Inc `• 11Iiddlesex, Tuesday, June 24, 1845. i ~ ,~, a Br,~ Als 4 t t! ILI nay, Tio tt.l valv v t ,„ l ZE' .4v e , th lARt 1 / 4 14 ,, 'sit/ To b t el) 041.: 'Vert IX G r, 1 ". cm; : -......__ : • oi : A l tiE t'ith „ rrojec, 41 0 ~ca p i '‘ , o sb -~ n ,~ . -;: