The Sun. — London, England, 1839-02-08 00:00:00

WATIMNAL CONVENTION. (YESTERDAY.) Mr. S,.P.,; KF ,y, dele ga t e f rom Edi n b urg h , was called to the le l lairs Mr. Lovett, Secretary. The minutes of Wednes- Cla proceedings were read and confirmed. 7alr. RierIARDsON moved that the report of the Corn- Inittee yesterday for the purpose of disseminating political knowledge be now read and adopted. Seconded by Mr. Mathews. The report stated that your Committee have to report that they do not think it necessary to recom mend to the Convention to enter into any expense in regard to having meetings in the Metropolis. But they have made arrangements with the Metropolitan Delegates Who were present, to have an experimental meeting in the White Conduit House, on an early day, and from the sue- COS of which they will be able to judge of the propriety of holding meetings in the other districts of London. The Committee have also to recommend that six or more Mis sionaries be immediately appointed to visit certain districts of England for the purpose of explaining the principles of the Charter, obtaining rent and signatures. The coun ties which have appeared most in want of this attention arc Cern vvall, Devonshire, Dersetshire, Kent,and I la mrsh ire, and probably Essex and Surrey. And also that as the principles of the Chartists, to obtain universal adoption by the industrious classes, require to be known; and as it is judicious that a general system of proceeding be followed, • having the sanction of the Convention, notice be sent to the several districts which have appointed delegates, recom mending strongly that each of these districts appoint a paid lecturer to instruct the people in political knowledge. The lecturer not only to attend to the instruction of the district, every town and village, but also at times to perambulate the neighbouring country, particularly those parts which have not joined the Chartist movement. And likewise, to recommend that such branches of the Northern Union, or the Working Men's Association, as require speakers to assist at their meetings, should apply to the Council at Newcastle, to obtain one or more. The Committee also suggest that this recom mendation be embraced in the proposed address to the people. Mr. J. P. Course-re said that before this important re port should be adopted, a report which embraced in some of its recommendations questions of law, which required the most exact and searching inquiry ; he alluded to that paragraph which proposed the sending of mis sionaries to the country ; as this might lead to a breach of the Convention Act, he did not say this positively, but he suggested that all due means should be taken to prevent our falling into the meshes of the law, as the Acts of Parliament were so vague and indefinite in their construction, they could easily be interpreted to the wishes of contending parties. He would, therefore, strongly advise them to give the report the most serious consideration in order that no hold could be taken of their proceedings by those who he believed were only waiting for an opportunity to do so. In accerrkince with this suggestion he men tioned that a friend of his, who was well versed in those matters, told him that he was afraid to send a letter into the country for fear of having himself put under some un defined clause of the Convention Act. The CIIMMAN said the reason of giving in the report so soon was to comply with the wishes of yesterday's meet ing, which recommended dispatch, that the petition might bit perfected for presentation as soon as possible ; but not withstanding the necessity fur haste, he fully agreed with the suggestion of Mr. Cobbctt, that it should before adop tion be laid before a competent person for advice. In accordance with these suggestions, it was moved as an amendment by Mr. Frost, and seconded by Mr. I3rough, that this report be further considered, Mr. fIETIIEraIIoToN said that although not a lawyer, he_ still had some csomfidence in hims e lf as t o hi s ltdOwlcdge on some legal points, and that he had looked with the greatest care through the Act of Parliament alluded to, and he could not find in it a siegie clause that could be construed so as to prevent theist sending missionaries through the country, fur the purpose of disseminating political information, the clause was particularly against illegal oaths and secret meetings. Ile however fully agreed with the caution of Mr. Cob bett, as some of the Judges have decided Acts of Par liament in the most contrary manner. Mr. Timor. said he was confirmed in his opinion by this discussion, that it was better to leave the agitation to the London IZadicals. Mr. RICIIARDiON said, that in consideration of the opi nions expressed, lie should withdraw the resolution, and therefore give the Committee an opportunity of re-consi dering the report. Ile did not, however, agree with Mr. Cobbett, that it would put us under the barns of the Cuss- vcntion Act. Mr. :',I•DowELL was glad that his Friend would not press his resolution, as the Acts of Parliament w ere lik e a bag of cols—you had the privilege of catching only as many as you could—while they ha 1 the privilege of catching you when they pleased. Original resolution withdrawn. Mr. ItionattosoN complained that the attendance of gen tleman on the committees was anything but punctual. At the appointed time of meeting, namely, 10 o'clock, Dr. Taylor, Mr. Fletcher, and himself were the only persons present.—( vicar, hear.) The committee appointed to wait on Members of Par liarn':.nt requested that further time be allowed before they bring up their rt port.—Allowed. Triton moved a resolution, which he said was of the most urgent necessity. As the great number of notices of motion on the book showed how important it sans that they should regulate their time with regard to the public interest in the best way possible. His object in doing so was not for the personal convenience of the Members, but for the interest of their constituents, as that alone ought to be considered; he hoped, therefore, that all would agree with him in the propriety of the present rcsolutioe, that Satur day be appointed solely for the sitting of Committees, and that the Secretary be empowered to hire a room for the special use of the Committee. Bailie CRAIG seconded it. After some discussion, as to whether it would not be better to have two days for that purpose instead of one, it was passed. Mr. CARDO observed that as circumstanocs might arise which would stamp the meeting of the Convention with some importance, and as it was both right and actually necessary, for the satisfaction of the constituency that all possible publicity should be given to their proceedings, be would introduce a motion to the follo%ting eff,ct " That each delegate be allowed to issue an, order for the admission of one stranger each day, to be a witness of their proceedings." After some little discussion as to the propriety of ad mitting ladies, a member having observed that by adopt ing such a course they would show themselves to be a more polite body than another he could name; and al lesion having also been made to the important services that had been rendered by bodies of ladies on many ne easions the motion was carried, it being understood that the term "stranger" was not to bo received in a limited sense. The remainder of the time of the meeting was occupied by passing resolutions incident to the abive motion, and to the appointing of officers. It was also resolved that the nr . jority of oach Coalmittee be considered a quorum for conducting the aff iirs of such Committee, The meeting then dissolved. LAW INTELLIGENCE. QUEEN'S BENCH, FEB. 7. CHIN. CON.—WALTON V. GOMME. (Continued from our First Edition of jesterday. ) Sir Pommel( then proceeded to address the Jury on The part of the defendant. This, he said, was one of the most extraordinary cases that had ever been brought before a Court. Cases of this description were deserving of the most serious consideration on account of the great mural principles bound up in their investigation, and the large share of human happiness that depended upon a correct view of the social relations imported into these inquiries ; and he should very much regret if, even by accident, any remark should fail from him which was in the slightest de gree calculated to raise a smile. His Learned Friend had desired the Jury not to measure their damages by the Which the husband had to their sympathy— to that sYmpathy exercised on the cruel wrong of being depriv e d of the wife of his bosom and the partner of his affections. B u t th ere was one person in this ease, above all others, entitled to their sympathy, but who, unfor tunately in proceedings of this description, was entirely forgotten--he meant the wife—whose situation had been bought forward ; she was arraigned of a crime, calcu lated, if it were true, to drive her from society, to rob her of the protection of a husband, deprive her of the counte nance of her friends, and place her in a situation far worse than if on her death-bed she was expecting a life of shame and misery would terminate ; and all this took place in a Court of Justice, with all the artifices of nisi pries, with Counsel looking only to the pocket interest of the husband, who asked the jury, by their verdict, to load his wife with the infamy of an adultress—to charge upon the defendant participation in the crime, and then to fill his pocket as largely as he could with damages. It was one of the anomalies in inquiries of this nature, that no one appeared to defend Mrs. Walton, who might cast back perhaps upon the husband some of the imputations which were sought to be thrown upon her. Ilcre was a husband asking a jury for damages—seeking to load his wife with the highest offence that could be committed against mo• talky, and the wife so undefended was dragged into court to gratify the avarice, and possibly something worse, of the plaintiff. It was the universal rule that when an imputa tion was sought to be cast upon any one, the inquiry should at least be conducted properly, by laying before the jury all the matters which belonged to it. The plaintiff, when he came into court, ought to have Come with the fullest history of his domestic life. He ought to give not a mere case to entitle hi m t o t h e SYrnpathy of the Jury and their verdict, but to lay before them evidence which could not be questioned, every fact and circumstance upon which he presumed to ask them to dip their hands into a n y man ' s poc k et; and lie appealed 1 th e Jury as men, as the husbands of their wives, as the Perms of theirdaughters, as the brothers of their sisters, to tell his Learned Friend and his client, that when the 11) riolar and character of a woman was assailed, he who came to assail her must not come in apparently with clean hands, but with an open heart lie must tell a ll th at b e l onged to the ca se. The man wh o came i n t o C ourt to state just enough * Tstamp a verdict of guilty, and procure an award of da agee, dishonoured the term ; it was not o b ta i ning a ver. rn utet fairly, b ut i t was attempting to get one by unfair y r ea ns. Here th ere was nothing to show the course o f he which h a d b een l e d in this house ; from the first week after the marriage all was blank up to the month of a 'aseb or April,and then it appeared that this was he o.)arle, of domestic life which then prevailed in the fiily, They ought to have sh o w n th e manner i n w hi c h t h e Parties h a d lived together during the two years preceding t hese tra called, nsactions, b u t no re l at i ve of the family had been The Learned Gentleman, after commenting at endued ength on the . _ evidence .adduced, concluded by remark mg, that eve" •by she witnesses, -.lf the jury believed all that had been stated their sense' cosfses' there could be no coin too small to express thel" , the injury of which the husband complained, ..n and l tglected and exposed his wife for months toge wbo concealed ever thin;; wide!, could t,•11,1 to throw an y light ou the subject. Looking to the sizuati,ai The defendant, who was not proved to be in a condition to pay any damages, looking also to the conduct of the de fendant, and to the sympathy which the exposed situation of the wife entitled her to, he was quite satisfied they would give such a verdict as would meet the justice of the case. Lord DENMAN then charged the Jury, leaving it to them to say, if they believed the testimony of the witnesses, to what amount of damages, under all the circumstances, the plaintiff was entitled. The Jury, after consulting for a few minutes, returned a verdict for the plaintiff—Damages 301. COMMON PLEAS. FRE. 7. petition had been presented do .any subject; and Other Gentlemen ittie* they had petitions of the same na ture, they had brought them up without even asking for discussion, which had been the means of saving a great deal of time. But he heard with the utmost surprise, if anything could surprise him in that House now-a-days, the Hon. Bart, the late Member foi Westminster stand up and state it Wati a hovel question whether the House should hear the petitions of the people —(Cries of " No, r,0," and Yes, yes.") What was it the Honourable Mem ber had asked for but that petitions should be discussed ; and the Honourable Baronet the Member for Wiltshire said that that was a novelty, because forsooth the mere presenting the petition would make an ex parte statement. What petition could be presented with out an cx parts statement ? If the objection were good for any thing, it would hold good in reference to every petition that cern° before the House. It was, in truth, an objection to speaking in that House, because every M3ll who presented a petition said something or other. He would say that this question was not worthy the consideration of the House at present. With regard to the practice it was now a good many years since he had had the pleasure of sitting in that House with Mr. Speaker, and he would put it to Mr. Speaker whether it was not the ancient and ordinary practice to discuss petitions on presen tation ? He would refer to the Orders of the Day, who ther petitions were not discussed night after night, even to eight and nine o'clock. It was not very long since that the Speaker was in the habit of pointing to the clock, calling the attention of the House to the fact of its being eight o'clock, and therefore time to enter upon the ordi nary business. He denied, therefore, that it was a modern practice. No doubt it was attended with its inconvenience. Ile had with others offsred his ad vice, probably as erroneous as the advice of others, as to how the inconvenience might be best aooided with out limiting by rule, or order of the House, any obser vations to be made on the petitions of the people. Ile had been willing to try every thing be could with a view to give satisfaction to the people, and at the same time not to interfere with the business of the House. What state were we in now ? He certainly was much surprised at the statement of the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord, who had stated that it was the old practice not to speak upon petitions, must have forgotten that he himself had taken part in the discussion of petitions. Yet now the Noble Lord would limit or put down that, which it was to be presumed was the proper practice. He ( Mr. Hume) differed from the Speaker, and from the Noble Lord, who urged that no petitions were to be heard but those in which the majority of the House concurred.-_( Cries of " No, no.") If he understood—( Laughter)—he took that to be the effect of what they had said. He thought no re. solution ought to be passed, limiting the right of petitioning. Did the House concede the right of petitioning ? Ile presumed they did. Was it meant that petitions should be heard and understood ? If so, no rule ought to be adopted restricting the right of stating their contents. He knew that great dissatisfaction prevailed in the country vie to the way in which petitions were re ceived by that House. He admitted the inconvenience which had occurred, and that he had concurred in an en deavour to obviate it—but now that the trial had been made, he was bound to state that it had failed, and that the people of this country were greatly dissatisfied with it; it was frequently said at public meetings that it was no use to petition the House of Commons, for that petitions were only thrown into a bag under the table, and the Member presenting them was not allowed scarcely to mention the names of the places from which they came.— ( Hear, hear.) If the House were anxious to satisfy the country, would they allow such a state of things to continue ? 'Last Session he (Mr. Flume) had repeatedly incurred the displeasure of the Speaker fur endeavouring to speak upon petitions, which he contended lie had a right to do, arid which he did do, as long as he pleased. Ile contended that every Member had a right to do so; there was no limit to speaking in that llouae.—( Laughter. ) No limit fie meant but the discretion of Members, and those just restric tions which ill every public assembly must be adopted, that speakers should keep to the subject under debate. Every Member ought to be allowed to use his own discre tion, in presenting a petition, to advocate the interests committed to his charge ; and he believed that in no case would petitions be unneceseal ily dwelt upon.--( Hear, hear.) He hoped, therefore, the House would place no restriction upon the right of pctitioning.—( Hear, hear. ) Sir ROBERT PE EL believed the universal feeling to be, that any restrictions which had been imposed on the discussion of petitions had been for the convenience of the House ; and also that the regulations which had been en forced were calculated to promote the convenience and dispatch of business. —( hver, hear.) They had various important duties to perform—the duty of hearing peti tions—the duty of legislation—the duty of examining the expenditure of the year—the duty of discussing great con stitutional questions. Human strength was limited. There were limits to the time which could be devoted to the perfor mance of those duties; and it had become necessary to attempt to make a compromise of them, and he believed the rule had been to give no advantage to any particular duty, but to make that arrangement which was most likely to give the greatest satisfaction to the people. Now, it was discovered that there was one particular duty which it was of the utmost urgency they should perform, and he did not deny it.—( Hear, hear.) It was their duty to receive the petitions of the people, but it seas their duty also not to permit any lengthened debate on such pe titions. They were to be bound by strict constitu tional rights. The public had a right to present petitions, and it was the duty of the House to hear them ; but he apprehended they had a right to determine the b..st mode of discussing any great public questions. Let them adhere to the strict constitutional right. The petition was to be received, but the pe tition, according to strict constitutional right, ought to be read at the table, whatever its length, in an audible voice, and every Member ought to be silent, and listen, not to the speech of the Hon. Member who presented it--(Tory cheers)—not to the acrimonious de bate of opponents on either side, but they ought delibe rately to listen to the statement made in each petition.__ The Hon. Member opposite had said that his Hon. Friend was wrong in his Rule of Three, and that he might put down three hundred petitions at once. The Hon. Gentleman might bring forward any sophisms in whatever way he pleased, namely, that whore 300 ought to be put down, one should be inserted; but it was a different ques tion whether he presented one petition, and slid there were 300 corresponding ones. It was very well for the Hon. Gen tlemen sitting in Committee, with all the petitions which had beenpresonted on the table, to examine each and fled they all • ;le esponded ; but he (Sir R. Peel) should like to ask whether his powers of intuition were equal to his powers of calculation—(Laughter)—and whether, when he (Sir R. Peel)—appeared with his petition, the Honourable Gentleman would undertake to say, " I strongly suspect either by sight or smell that your petition corresponds with the other petition which was presented before, and therefore your petition shall not be read." They could not prove that his petition exactly corres ponded wish the petition that had gone before, and suppos ing that he took care that there should be some verbal alterations in that petition, in what manner could they dis charge their constitutional rights of listening to all they had no right to say? The object of that petition was of particular importance ; it was equally their duty to receive from the remotest parish of England or Ireland any pe tition, and to pay attention to it ; and he would tell them that, supposing after establishing their rule, any party chose to embody an article, or to issue pamphlets, to say, " We will not use simple prayers; we will suppott our prayer by lengthened argument upon it ;" he would say it was equally his (the Speaker's) duty to read in a more audible voice than he had of late done. They cannot deny t ictn. Gent.lat whatever madetli time a p excitementse speech on might s petition, u, t oebe been while an the moment they came to read that petition there was a general inat tention. They told us they wanted other opportunities f r discussion, but did not say that their object was to en able all to listen attentively to every petition they might choose to present. What right had a Member to give his paraphrase of a petition ? Had not the petitioners a right to say, " hear our simple prayer ?" This was their strict duty. How were they to discharge otherwise their duty in the strict letter of the law, " that this 13i11 be read a second time ?" He supposed that the Clerk of the House had seen the Bill read before he said " that this Bill be read a second time." He apprehended that every Member had a righ to ask that a Bill should be read a second time, and tha four Sessions of Parliament, and arose out of . these cir cumstances s it had been very seriously felt to be a great inconvenience that so much time had been lose in the prb sentation of petitions, and that the title had been adopted for the purpose of removing the interruption of the public business by lengthened debates on petitions. First morning sittings were established, and it was found that they did not at all facilitate the presentation. of peti tions; they were established in February, and in the folk lowing May the accumulation of unpresented petitions became so great that it became necessary to refer the question to a Special Committee then sitting to recom mend some means by which the presentation of petitions might be facilitated. During the whole of his expe rience in that chair he had not heard any applica tion from any side for morning sittings to be re stornd. If debates were to be continued upon the pre sentation of petitions, as in former times, it was for the House to consider how public business could be forwarded— it was for the House to decide and dispose of the question. All that be had to say, and he thought that it was necessary for him to say, both for himself awl his suc cessor was,—that whatever rule might he established, the rights of all Members might be taken care of convenience of the House consulted, and that every care should be taken to facilitate the access to that House of all classes of her Majesty's subjects. Ile trusted that care would be taken that the resolution should be one that should afford a distinct rule for the guidance of the Speaker in all times coming, for lie was free to confess, that leaving their own discretion trenched upon and adding to the discretion of the Speaker, was one which no wise Speaker would ever wish for—(Cheers)—as it would involve him in constant conflicts with individual Members, a state of things to be very much deprecated. Ile would say no more, but leave the House to d ec id e , an d h e trusted that any rule that might be adopted would be one conducive to the public good. Mr. WARD need not say with what feelings of respect and attention ho heard what had fallen from the Speaker, or how much the remarks he had made had with him due weight, and how much he approved of tho sage observations he had uttered. But it was not, nevertheless, to be for gotten that those observations and this dictum was not guaranteed by any vote of the House ; those who agreed with him on this important subject would re ceive that dictum with as much satisfaction as himself, hut, like himself, they would also receive it only as it deserved. This rule of the House was of recent occurence, and he begged the House to re collect that it was not based upon that foundation would entitle it to attention. Where was its origin? Nut, surely, in any record on the journals, to claim sufficient authority. This regulation, which affected is the deepest manlier the principle of the right of petition, could not be allowed to interfere with that right, yet this rule on which it is said the discussion on petitions must be set aside, and whi.sh makes us depatt f r om s e ttl e d max i ms , is only of three years' standing. This want of discussion on petitions, presented to this House, has engendered through the country a feeling that the people are treated with no consideration, and that their petitions arc not heard with that attention which they ought, and that they arc read over in a cold flippant manner by the Clerk of the House—(he mentioned this without dis respect to that gentleman)—and then thrown under the table. Some of them are printed, and we just hear of what they purport, and how many signatures are attached to them. There is, he denied, any record of that House to make him silent on the presentation of a petition —nay, so far was this novel and unjust practice carried, that petitions under which the porters of the House groaned, were only just mentioned, and suffered to pass away unnoticed. He could not at all understand why it was so. He would prefer his duty before anything. The question was of the most serious and important deset lo tion, in connection with our influence throughout the country, and might be attended with the disruption of all tics with those who were represented here, and who had a right to bring their sentiments before the country, and with those who had no direct representation here. Ile should make no motion upon the subject, but leave it in the bands of the house. He would, however, claim the right to ac company any petition with remarks, and to open a discussion whether any other Member presented such petition, or if it were presented by himself. He thought the point was of importance, but it must be from those who thought differently from himself that a motion must come. Ile would leave it in the hands of the House, with a sincere wish that the point might be settled. He claimed and asserted the privilege, and would exercise it whenever the case seemed to him to require it. Lord JOHN RUSSELL, in the present stage of the subject, would only say it was the province of this House to regulate its own practices, and as long as any prac tice was confirmed by the House, and seemed to meet the general sense of the House, his impression was that such practice should be continued. That being the case he could not see how the [lon. Member could wish to over turn any practice without bringing forward a distinct motion to that effect. The Honourable Gentleman wanted to restore what he calls the ancient privileges of the House. His belief was that the ancient practice of the House was, that Members presenting petitions stated the substance of the petitions, the numbers of the petitioners, and the calling of the persons petitioning; but he was not aware that the petitions were to afford opportunities for those presenting. them to de liver their sentiments upon them.--( Hear, hear.) He did not deny that :there were extraordinary occasions when Members presenting petitions travelled out of the ordinary route, but the occasions were so rare that they could not be considered to afford precedents for a depar ture from the practice of the House. He would mention, among others the petitions of the Friends of the People presented in 1793. He thought the Honourable Gentleman, without making a distinct motion, could not depart from the ordinary practice of the House. Mr. HAWES did remember one very remark able instance when a petition was presented by a distinguished Member of that House. He was present upon that occasion, and he well recollected the spot from whence the speaker addressed the House ; and if his memory did not fail him greatly, he deliberately argued the question. Upon that occasion there was one word which dropped from the chair, front which alone he ventured to dissent, which was the statement that if the House laid down any rule it would be expe dient that it should be a rule that would govern the House throughout the session upon thepresentation of all pe titions. Now he could not but think that that was unneces sary. He had no objection that the House should decide that petitions on the Corn-laws should be presented without comment. He was free to admit that great inconvenience arose in consequence of having discussions upon all peti tions ; but upon great questions, where there was a manifestation of public opinion, he thought they should be made an exception to the general rule.— ( Hear, hear.) He believed that there was no ques tion now before the House, but if it was necessary lie would move that Mr. Ward should be heard.—( Cries of " No, no.") He hoped that his Hon. Friend would persevere, and take the sense of the House in order that Members might reserve to themselves the right of making observations upon petitions when they thought it necessary. Sir F. BURDE TT doubted very much whether this proposition could be acc e d e d to,:considering the greatly aug mented numbers et' petitions, and h ow many Gentlemen pre sented petitions Who never intended to move upon them,being anxious :merely to speak upon them. After the very clear and distinct statement of the Noble Lord, it was evidently ( - elite impolitic to adopt such a proposition. At the same time Honourable Members would recollect that there were particular exceptions, and that it was always in the power of the House to afford opportunities to Hon ourable Members on peculiar occasions. He did not see how it was possible to carry on the busi ness of the House if the now system were adopted. He could not help adding that he was an old enough Member of that House to recollect the time when no man ventured to do more than open the petition, state its object, and perhaps refer to the respectability of the signatures ; but he was not permitted to enter into what would really be a very unfair mode of statement—an exparte statement which might lead to continual long discussions, or produce impressions every way contrary to justice and common sense, and greatly to the detriment of the public service. —(Hear.) He hoped that that novelty would not be introduced, which had grown up within his own recollection, but that the good old mode—( Great laughter)—of merely presenting a petition be adhered to. Nothing could be more unfair than that kind of statement, and he had seen it raise the greatest possible obstacle to the business of the House. He begged, therefore, that the House would not depart from the old rule, which had been found so convenient. Sir R. INGLIS—The question was not one so much of convenience as of policy and justice. The Hon. Member for Shef f ield stated that petitions were read so formally, or inaudibly, that no knowledge could be conveyed to the House on the subject. He would ask whether it had been taken into consideration the time that would be occupied in reading these petitions. The year 1833 had been referred to as that in which the experiment had been made on the subject of petitions. In that year 10.394 petitions had been presented to the House, and he called upon the House to recollect, if the Hon. Member for Sheffield was right, and that Members might not only read but provok e discussion, how much time would be occupied—the same right being conceded to every other gentleman. He pledged himself that not one of these petitions could be read in less than a minute and a half, and some of them would take three or four minutes ; arid he would ask the Hon. Member for Kilkenny to calculate what time it would take—( Great laughter)—to read 10,394 petitions at that rate ? If the House sat 100 days, at six hours a day, morning and night, they could not dispose of all these petitions. In fact the whole twenty-four hours would not be sufficient to dispose of the whole. The Hon. Member for Lambeth talked of the extreme importance of the petition from Shefkeld. He (Si r R o b ert I ng li s ) was no t one to undervalue the importance of the petitions, whether for or against the Corn-laws, or of the subject itself.—( Hear.) If this proposed rule were adopted (every Hon. Member claiming the same right), how was it possible for the House to discharge any other duty then that of hearing petitions. He did not mean to undervalue the petitions of the people, but the practice now proposed was a modern one. The greatest difficulty had taken place twelve years ago, when the Roman Catholic Relief 13 It was under dis cussion, and whenever a question of Parliamentary Reform or Municipal Reform was mooted, or any other question in which the public mind was much interested, the same in- Mr. Justice COLTSIAN sat at Nisi Prius at Westminster, with a Common Jury. LOCKE V. GREGORY This was an action (,f libel against the proprietor of the Satirist newspaper. The record was, however, with the consent of both parties, withdrawn. The Court was then occupied with a case which pre. sented nothing of public interest. COURT OF EXCHEQUER, FRB. 7. CROWDER V. SELF AND ANOTHER. Mr. MILLER stated that this case was brought before the jury to recover compensation for an illegal distress. The plaintiff was a cab proprietor, renting a stable and rooms over, at 241. a year, in hill -street, Finsbury, the property of the defendant. At Michaelmas, 1837, he owed a balance of 41. for the previous quarter's rent ; on being applied to he craved for time—for only a few days, as his cab was then under repair. lie went out, and on his return found a man in possession of all his goods for a full quarter's rent of 6/. He told the man that it was all wrong, aTid offered to pay the 41., which alone was due. The man refused to leave or take the money. Plaintiff then saw his master, the broker, and offered him the 4/., but lie also refused to take less than the 61. The man was continued in possession for six days to the great inconve nience and loss of the plaintiff, as the man in possession refused to allow more than one horse and cab to leave the premises at a time. On the sixth day the broker found that he had made a mistake, said the landlord had deceived him, and withdrew the man. The defendant had no right to do so ; be had exceeded his authority ; he had put the plaintiff to great inconvenience and annoyance, and for that he now sought compensation from the hands of a Jury. The Learned Gentleman proved his casa by severa' witnesses. Mr. Ilvt,Es submitted that the plaintiff had no case. Upon the authority of two eases in the books no case would lie unless the landlord had seized more goods than the amount of his debt authorized, as the eebtor received no injury. It had not been shown that more goods had been taken than were worth 41. Mr. MILLER recalled a witness, and proved the goods in the plaintiff's house and fixtures to be worth 301. Mr. 13vLEs then addressed the Jury, and characterised the action as not that of the plaintiff, but what was go nr,rally called an Attorney's action. It vas a trumpery one, and if they were told by his Lordship that they were obliged to give damages, the smallest coin in the realm would be suaicient. His LORDSHIP summed up, and the Jury having given a verdict for the plaintiff—Damages, Is., His LOkDSIIIP certified. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HO USE OF COMM ON S--,FEB. 7. The House resumed at Four o'clock. HER MAJESTY'S ANSWER. The SPE AKER said the House had been to present the Address to the Queen, to which her Majesty had re turned the following most gracious answer : " I thank you for your loyal and dutiful Address. I receive with satisfaction your assurances of support in maintaining the authority of my Crown in my Canadian provinces, I rely with confidence upon your zealous assistance in upholding the observance of the law, and upon your careful consideration of the weighty matters in which you are to be engaged." Several private petitions having been presented for leave to bring in private Bills for establishing Small Debt Courts, Mr. H A WF_',S said he would take that opportunity of saving that it was necessary that the Government should take this matter into consideration. Every Session many of these Biils were passed, and all of them contained almost incongruous enactments. There was no regularity —no uniformity. He was sorry that none of the Minis ters were in their places, for he really thought it was a question deserving their serious attention. CORN-LAWS. Mr. CHRISTOPHER, seeing the Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Home Department, in his place, would venture to put a question to him with respect to a motion of the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton, of which he had given notice for the 19th of February. The Noble Lord having stated that he was in favour of a fixed duty, and against the present graduated scale, he wished to ask whether, in the event of the Honourable Member for Wolverhampton bringing forward his me lion on the 19 h of the present month, it was the inten tion of the Noble to meet that motion by an amendment, recommending a moderate fixed duty, or whether he in tended to meet it by a direct negative? Mr. VILLIERS said if the Hon. Member would allow him to explain in the first instance, he wou?d state that it was not his intention to raise the general question on the 19th instant. His object was to move that evidence be heard at the bar of the House in support of the prayer of particular petitions, and that it was his intention, on a sub sequent day, to move the House on the general question. Lord JOIIN RUSSELL—With respect to the ques tion which the Hon. Gentleman has asked me, and the explanation which the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton has given, I beg to say that it certainly is not my intention to move any amendment proposing a fixed duty to the Hon. Ge n tl eman ' s mo ti on. S o far as the matter has yet gone, I certainly should not like to commit myself absolutely to the motion, not having heard any reason stated in support of it, but the present impres sion on my mind is that I shall oppose the motion to hear evidence at the bar, not having yet heard sufficient reasons or precedents to induce me to assent to such a course. At the same time I must say that as there is a good deal of discussion relative to the facts, if I find that it is cop formable to precedent, and not inconvenient, I think these facts ought to be ascertained, and I shall be willing to support any motion to that effect.—(Cheers.) The Honourable Gentleman having askel me this question, may I be permitted to add that since the formation of the Grey Adtninistrai ion—some time during the government of Earl Grey, this question was always considered an open question with Government; Lord Althorp stated that in 1834 the members of the Cabinet agreed in opinion that no alteration should take place. Ile stated his opi nion to be in favour of an alteration, but against the alte ration in point of time. Now my opinion was with Lord Althorp in favour of an alteration, but I agreed with him that 1834 was unfavourable in point of time, and I think that 1839 is favourable in point of time for entertaining the question. Sir R. PEEL would not follow the example of the Noble Lard. It would lead to great inconvenience if Mi nisters, professing to answer a question undertook to give a history of the proceedings of the Government and of their opinions. He wished to ask whether it might be taken for granted that the motion would be brought forward-- whether it was the intention of the Honourable Mover to persevere? Mr. VILLIERS—It is my intention to persevere. Sir R. PEED—On that day? Mr. VILLIERS—Most certainly. THE SOAP TRADE. Mr. G ILL 0 N gave notice of his intention to-morrow to move for certain return:connected with the Soap trade. The Honourable Member also gave notice of his intention to bring in a Bill for regulating the sale of Exciseable Li quors in Scotland ; and another for the reduction of the taxes on internal cemmunication. Lord J. ST UA RT gave notice of his intention to bring in a Bill for regulating the law of copyright. Mr. G. W. WOOD gave notice that on Monday next he should move for a return of the prices of wheat inserted in the Gazette for the year 1838 and the four preceding years. General JOHNSON gave notice of his intention to move for some retu-ns respecting the Poor-law Amendment Act. Mr. HULL gave notice of his intention to move, on the 21st instant, for certain returns relative to the damage sustained by British commerce, in consequence of the blockade of some of the ports in South America. COUN-LAWS, Mr. WARD rose to present A petition which had been agreed to at a public rneeti7. g of the inhabitants of Shef field, to which the seal of the Master Cutler and the town trustees was affixed, a:,d which had received the signatures of 13,000 of the inhabitants, including all the most influen tial merchants and manufacturers of the North, during the three da 3 F! which it was allowed to remain for signature at the I ' o ,4'n-hall. The petition was for the entire and total abQ,',ition of the existing laws regulating the importation of foreign corn; and he felt bound to state, particularly after be bad given notice of his intention, that upon a subject of such transcendent importance —a subject so vitally inter esting to his constituents, he should claim and assert the ancient right of being heard in support of the petition which he had the honour to present--that it was his inten tion to travel out of the routine of presenting petitions — that it was his intention to make a statement to the House, and to deny the existence of any order or regul a ti on o f t h e House by which he could be arrested in discharging his duty to those who sent him here. the SIEAKR considered that would be the proper time for him to interpose and inform the House of his impression upon the subject. It would be in the re collection of the House that he had always been anxious that there should be some authoritative opinion given by the House upon this subject. It was important that such eimild be the case, not only to the rights of the people, but also to the rights and convenience of the House. It had been most truly said that there was no order upon the subject—there was no such rule recorded on the Journals of the House ; but it was unneces sary for him to state to any one who had the slightest knowledge of the rule, forms, and re gulations of the House, that the same might be said of a great number of what were now the practices of the (louse. Ail the rules of the House arose from a long course of practice, and the duty of the Speaker was to enforce them, so far as he understood them. If there were no inclination on the part of the ticiase to alter tr amend those rules, he knew of no way in which the busi ness could be better done than by following the understood sentiments of the majority of the House. When the majority of that House bad been shown it was the duty of the Speaker to give effi ct to those opinions, so far as in him lay, on most occasions the minority of the House had given way to the understood opinion of the majority, and necessarily so; be cause if it were nit so, any Member might, if lie pleased, occupy the greater part of the time of the House, and it would be most obnoxious to the feelings of the Speaker— his duties would become even more onerous than they were now, and every one who knew any thing of them were quite aware they were onerous enough already.._( Hear, hear, and cheers.) The rule of the House which v.-J.5 COY under their coniiciera! ion, if he under steed it . iroperly, gee w up with th e concurrence and sanction tithe House, and had been acted upon during convenience would arise. Mr. HUME would take the Hon. Gentleman upon his own showing, and demonstrate by the rule of three that he was wrong.—(Great laughter and cheering.) He would put this case, and he would remind the Hon. Baronet that h.: had had the pleasure of sit ting with him for a number of years on the Committee of Petitions, whether they had not found on several occasions 200 or 300 petitions iden tically the same except the signatures; that he fancied broke down the whole of the lion. Baronet's objections, because by the rule of three he would rut down these three hundred petitions as one.--( Roars of laughter.) The Hon. Gentleman referred to numb;rs. He would every Membr had farther the right, if he chose, to insist that the one hundred and thirty-nine cluses of the Stamp Consolidation Act should be read at length. But what he would ask, would be the effect of the adoption of such a course? Why the whole time of the House would be occupied, and little or no business would be done.—( Hear, hear.) What would be thought, he would ask, of an Hon. Member getting up and stating that he had 500 pe titions to present—that he was desirous that the whole of them should be read, and that he insisted upon his right to make a speech upon each of them ? Why if such a circumstance was allowed to take place, it would be im possible to go on with the public business. Ile regretted that the question had come on in its present shape, be cause the inconvenience of adopting the proposition would be that it would establish a rule without consideration for the future proceedings of the H mse. If the llonourable Gentleman's proposition were acceded to, every Hon. Member would have a right at five o'clock to insist on pre senting meanspetitions, the t„i molting ouse woau would speech • involved eponeach n of them, c a o n n d f b u y that . sion, and probably be prevented from leg isla'ing alto gether. He thought that the House would satisfy the people far more if they would devote more time to making their l og i slativo enactments effective.—( Hear.) It was notorious that there was no nation upon the face of the globe in which the Legislation was conducted more slo venly than in England, for there was hardly a single mea psuurrepobsreouogfhatmfoerowdaiorgd,abruotooindothweontes.xt Session another mea sure was intr o d uce d fa the purpose of amending it. In deed, the re were often measures b rou , r h t f orwa rd fer the _(ettgliter. ) If the Hon. Me m b er said he insisted on his right to make obser. Each ssue wasclfh asubjected rci gol: Member must act for himself. It would be better p v e a t t i i, bheefomreust tell him lie had no right to bind us. ti t a o t he for themselves and the public that the business of the House of Commons should proceed without such interruptions, and their attention net be diverted from whatever discussions might arise. Honourable Nutseeamtisvb:ceereheand till, as l If the wishes of the Honourable Member prev aile d, every IlJn. Member would wish to present a ldthbee Speaker. 0 p Theand making a l ow . Speaker...--( the authority of the a • would matter con o s f ti n t e u c te es f s o i necessity, of• r R. Peel) however, would remember what he stated on this occasion, and e h h C u w ' acinterruption hear.) o. would l o'clock, ' disregard would tell him that he would not allow him to persist in ( Hear, hear.) Petitions were all upon an e q ua lity, Petitioners were all upon an equality, and the Hoo-ourable Member ought to know that all subjects were ulna an equality ; and he was not to be allowed to select any peculiar subject of his own, and claim an exemption from those rules which had been laid down.--( Hear.) Mr . WA RD must say the Right Honourable Baronet had met him in a most unfair and uncourteous man ne •. He did not say uncourteous to the House, but to himself, man who seldom intruded his observations on the House. —(A laugh.) li e was discharging a great public duty, and 1149 i'otti4.l tell the Honourable Baronet that be would I --- --- find that thay had agreed to print one only out of a series, uhatever that series might IK-., and of counting that one only worthy of notice. If it had been tie practice up stairs it had been so down, in that House. When' one THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY.-EVENING IMITION,-FEBRUmIy 8., 1839 discharge diet dUtY. tte vosottldll fel- the ride, and would say, that such a rule as that referred to, ought to be distinctly laid down. He would tell them who said there was any such rule to show it to him, and would persist in saying it was a rule which pre /Tented him froth dist:hating his duty in a proper man ner. The Hon. Baronet had addressed him personally. He would say it was for them who did not wish the rule to be broken through, to lay down some intelligible rule. Let those who object to some moderate and discretionary power to those presenting the petitions, lay down the ride they arc to abide by.—( Hear.) Mr. P. THOMSON addressed the House, but we were unable to catch the first words of his Address. We un derstood him to say, that his Hon. Friend who spoke last seemed to have a great dissatisfaction to the practice pur sued in that House. He must say, that, by the remarks his Hon. Friend had made, he had shown himself unac quainted in h the present practice of the House with re gard to the effect it had on the petitions themselves. He said they are not read, and that they ought to be read, but his desire seemed to be, not that-the petition should be read, but he seemed to be anxious to have an oppor tunity of making a speech, and other Members should also make speeches. The Hon. Member complained also that the petitions of the people were brought up, put in a bag, and treated without any ceremony. Ile would say that he had neglected his duty, if he thought such t o b e the course adopted with respect to the petitions—the petitions were presented, read, and afterwards published_ and having been classified, any Member had the power to give notice to call the attention of the House to that petition. His Honoureble Friend might' have dote so, and then this discussion might have taken place. But he was prepared to rest this case upon the merits of the petitioners themselves. Ile was prepared to contend from the best attention he had been able to give to the subject, and the observations he had been able to make—and he had, perhaps, been mere constantly in the House for the last three years during the presentation of petitions than any other Member—he was prepared to say that the present course would be more satisfactory to the petitioners them selves than the old practice. He was prepared to t( st that by reference to what was introduced by his Hon. Friend the Member for Lambeth. He had proposed that which could neither be admitted nor adopted, the departing from the rule with respect to one particular subject, and the ad hering to it with respect to another. But when he was prepared to test it by his Hon. Friend's proposition, no doubt could remain of his desire to give the matter the fullest consideration, and to allow it to have all the advantages possible. What was the former practice ? Had Members not to come down day after day in the hope of being able to get his name put down that he might be ena abled to present his petitions. One gentleman gave evi dence before the Committee in 1832, before the Honour. able Baronet, that he had come down 24 mornings in the hope of being able to succeed in getting his name upon the list, and that during that time two or three speeches a night had prevented him from getting his petitions heft,' e the House ; and in that way petitions had been delayed for three weeks or a month before their information could be communicated to the House. What was it the peti. tioners wished? Their wishes were that their prayers and the circumstances of their cases should be made known to the House as early as possible. Well, then, if thc House was to go back to that practice which prevailed before the same re sults would take place, the hopes and expectations of the petitioners would be disappointed, and the House would be deprived of the information contained in their petitions. His Hen. Friend, the Member for Wolverhampton, had a motion on the subject of the Corn-laws, is hich stood for next week ; and it was to be proposed on that occasion that witnesses should be examined at the bar, reference to the Corn-laws. Ile had heard there were hundreds of petitions coming up, praying that that course mi g ht be . adopted. If those petitions were pre sen t e d acco ruing to the present practice, they would be all classified op stairs, the House would be made aware of the number orsigna, titres to them, and the places from whence they came ; and when it came to a discussion upon the point they would be able to know the number of petitions both for and against the course proposed, and come to the discussion of the ques tion with all the additional information which those petiti oners could communicate. Adopt the other course, and whet would be the consequence ? Two or three petitions would be presented, accompanied by eloquent speeches no doubt, and the House would come to a discussion upon the subject utterly uninformed of the number of petitions either for or against the course proposed. He would put the case to his Hon. Ft iced the Member for Wolverhampton, which would be the most convenient course, and the best to his advan tage? Under what system it would come with the greatest advantage before the House. He contended that tie prac tice of the last three years had given satisfaction to the House itself, and he had heard some of those who were now anxious to alter the system, express themselves satis fied with the system of the last three years. A dep eoure front that system would create a much greater inconveni ence. Once go hack to the old system, and they must consent to put aside the public business of the country altogether, and attend not to the petitions but to the speeches made on their presentation. Adeclaration of the con tents of the petition might be made—the number of signatures ought to be stated—the facts of the petition ought to be laid before the House, but the eiscuss;on of the merits of the question ought to be reserved for a future occasion. Mr. VILLIERS was very sorry to hear the ecrimonious manner in which that question had been discussed It wes a question of mere dry dkail, and more stormy declamation he had scarcely ever heard imparted to a question of the kind, which ought to be discussed with the utmost calm ness. He confessed the present arrangement, was very con venient for the • Members themselves, but was also very un satisfactory to the:public at large. It was no doubt very ha-d and very unfortunate that a Member should come down night after night and yet have no opportunity of presenting his petition. The system of his Honourable Friend (the Member for Sheffield) would add greatly to the labours of individual Members, but the present system very much dissatisfied the country.— ( Cheers.) The public said, "We leave our businesses— we deeply consider these petitions—we write to our repre sentatives. No doubt, the petitions arc presented, but we hear nothing of them ; we see nothing of them in the Papers. Then what is the use of our so losing our time ?" Now, it was impossible to deny that last year the subject was one of general complaint. He had felt the incon venience himself, and he had been answered that the public business had been advanced by it. But he never had heard any answer made to what bad been replied to that—. What is public business ? What do you do when you get to the public business? We have been sitting here night after eight, watching the proceedings, and we find that the two hours following are occupied by not very pertinent questions or by personal discussions, which were Ly no means of national importance." That was confirmed by the state ment of the Right Hon. Gentleman. It was clear that the greater portion of one Session was occupied in rectifying the errors of the previous one. One point deserved notice, and that was that the proposed plan would afford an op portunity of discussing questions which could not o:her wise meet due consideration when all discussion was reserve d for one night's debate. The people of England had not time to devote themselves to political matters.—(" Hear," and a laugh.) It was necessary that their attention should be directed to these matters by repeated discussion, in order that they might come at a due understanding of there. Many of these errors had arisen from their over-hasty le gislation, and he hoped an opportunity would be afforded of discussion these questions more fully, before pro ceeding to legislate on them. It was merely a ques tion between the convenience of Members and the wants and exigencies of the country.—( Hear, hear. ) If the House made up their minds to attend to the public business he did not believe that these complaints would have been made, aod if that was done now he thought this claim would be withdrawn.—(llear.) But with the tes timony of the Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel), to the un satisfactory way which the public business was conducted, it could not be expected that the people would be con tented.—( Hear, hear.) Sir DE LACY E VANS said, having a petition of the same nature as the lion. Member for Sheffield, he must support the motion.—( Cries of " No, Oleic is no motion.") Ho certainly must admit dint inconvenience had occurred in former years from the public business being delayed, but, on the other hand, he must say the inconvenience had since been carried to a greater extent the other way.— ( Hear, hear.) With regard to his own constituents, he must state there was a feeling of great dissatisfaction on the subject, and they had entrusted him with several peti tions, which they had instructed him to withdraw if he was not allowed to state their representations.—( Hear.) It had been said it was important to economise the time of the House, and so it was ; but then upon party discussions the people saw there was an extreme and lavish loss of time.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. BROTHERTON rose amidst loud cries of •` Question," and " Divide." He said there was no man more anxious to save the time of the Howe, but he could not concur in what had been urged by his Hon. Friends around him, for though he believed that there was some dissatisfaction on the subject, he was persuaded that arose from the _public mind having been misinformed as to the facts.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) It had been represented that petitions were merely thrown into a bag —such was not the truth.—(Hear, hear, from the same quarter, and from the Treasury Bench.) Every Hon. Member had a right to state where the petition came from, who were the petitioners, and what was the allegation.— ( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Greenock had last night, in presenting a petion, occupied a considerable time in stating its allegations—( Hear, hear. )—besides which, any Member might name a subsequent day for the discussion of the subject of a petition, which be was anxious t) have more fully considered, with out infringing the rule of the House.—(Hear, hear.) It had been stated, he knew, in many parts of the country, no matter bow contrary to truth, that the petitions of the people have been treated with contempt. This statement he never allowed to be made, without contradicting it in a manner that his knowledge of the proceedings of this House enabled him to do; and from that knowledge he knew that the petitions of the people fared much better than when the former practice was followed. He must say that some ten or a dozen of Members monopolised to them selves the right of taking up the time of the House with petitions.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) Indeed, said the Hon. Member, such Memlm.s as himself never get time to speak on the presentation of petitions. Under all the circumstances of the case, he thought it much better that the present system should be kept up ; he therefore would give his vote to keep the rule as it at present stood. Mr. JOHN PARKER, who spoke so very low as to be scarcely audible, said he must allow that the view of the question which his Hon. Friend had taken was that in which he coincided on this subject. Ho did not at all doubt of the inconvenience of the practice, but notwith standing all those arguments the system ought to be met with due attention. He could not consent to depart from the rule adopted by the House. Mr. WARD believed that he might now rise to present his petition, because he stood precisely where he had done before. He had made no compromise, he had made no motion, and the same course adopted by him to-night would be adopted by others - to-morrow, and throughout the Session. He certainly thought that some proposition would have come from the Noble Lord.—(Calls for Lord John Rus.ell.) Lord J. RUSSELL thought it was the duty of the Hon. Member either to submit to the rule laid down by the Chair, et to introduce some motion of his own.— (Cheers from the epposition Benches.) It was per eetly competent for the lion: Member to say, and • he (Lord J. Russell) could understand, that there were a • number of Gentlemen entertaining the same feeling es the Hon. Member, that the present mode of proceeding did not allow sufficient attention to be given to petitions, and therefore that the rules and practice of the House • ought to be altered. He could easily understand their saying that, but he could not understand when the Chair had laid down what the rule and practice was, that the Hon. Member should not either agree to abide by that rule and practice, or attempt to alter it by a vote of the House.—(Tory cheers.) He was wishing to interpose his • own authority and decision against the decision of the Speaker in apparent conformity, at least, with the decision of the House.__( Hear, hear. ) He must say that he did not think the Hon. Gentleman had pursued a course which was consistent with the respect which he ought to pay to the House. But as the que tion had been now discussed, and as he thought the House had heard sufficient reasons to induce them to perse vere in the present practice, and as he did not wish to add to the arguments that had been adduced, he would shortly state why he should now propose that the House should come to a vote on the subject. Ile did say, on the ground that the lion. Member had stated that he • would still persevere, and that others like him would per . severe in attempting to make speeches by which the Chair would be placed in the very invidious and unfair position of calling a Member to order every time he transgressed the usual practice, without ascertaining whether or no the House would support him in that position. Lie did not think the Chair ought to be placed in that position._ (Cheers.) With respect to the question itself, he wished • to make a remark on what had been stated by his lion. Fr:end bahind him—that the public business of the House was of little importance, and he gave what was hardly a respectful account of its proceedings to his constituents who had inquired of him on the subject. The Hon. Member fur Lambeth had called the attention of the House last Session to the subject of the police of the metropolis, and had drawn up a very able report. He ( Lord J. Russell) was about to introduce Bills in con formity with the Honourable Gentleman's suggestion ; but what would he say if, at the end of the session, he declared himself unable to get them through the House of Com ► mons, because the House had been so entirely occupied in debatiag and discussing petitions without coming to any result, that it was impossible for him to get forward these measures ? In order that they might have some rule to go by, he should move, " That the House do adhere to the . established practice with respect to the presentation of . petitions, as now laid down by Mr. Speaker."—( Great • cheering.) Mr. LEADER wished to know what the established practice:wa , , because there appeared to him to be some dis pute with respsct to the matter.—( Cries of " No, no.") He (Mr. L.) would say, Yes yes. For his own part he assented that every Member had a right upon the p esen tation„, of petitions to state what his opinions were the subject. When a petition was presented the questioa was put that it be received, and he should like to know whether Members had not a right to speak upon that ques tion ? There could be no doubt that they had, aid it would be a most unjust interference with the privileges of Members to attempt to prevent them from doing so. lie maintained that they had the right, and those who asserted that they had not according to the practice of the ilouse, were bound to show what the established practice was. If Hen. Members consulted their own convenience, they would think rather harshly of those who would introduce a practice inconvenient to them. But he would intreet lion. Members to bear in mind the chief duties they had to per - form were to hear the grievances of the people, and, if possible, to redress them. Be adopting the motion pro posed by the Noble Lord at the head of the Home De partment, the House would be preventing the people from petitionieg at all, because they would feel it to be utterly impossible to do so with success. The Right lion. Gen tleman et the head of the Board of Trade had said there was no dissatisfaction in the country on this subject. Why there was actually a petition from the inhabitants of West , minster at this moment complaining that their petitions were not treated with the respect with which they ought. The other day, at a meeting at Manchester, attend cd not only by men of Manchester, but by delegates from almost all the great towns of this country, when he stated the manner in which the subject was treated by the [louse, there was one universal shout of in dignation, and every possible manifestation of disgust.— ( Hear, hear.) The people knew very well how their pe titions were treated by the House, and he was very well as sured that three or four nights' discussion on the matters of their petitions, would have a far mare beneficial effect on tat • country, than the present practice could possibly have, of printing the petitions, and then distributing them into the hands of Members, many of whom never looked upon them.—( Cheers.) Ile would caution the House against adopting the course which they seemed about to pursue. If they would not receive the petitions of the people, and permit them to present them, they would drive the people toe tier and more unconstitutional means of making known their grievances.—(hear.) There were two Conventions sitting its London at this moment.—( Much cheering.) Did the House think that those persons would take the trouble of coming- to London at a great expense, if they considered that their petitions were received by the house as they ought ?—( Hear, hear.) The very fact of those two Con ventions sitting proved dist there was great dissatisfaction prevailing in the minds of persons in reference to the way in which their petitions were received by the "louse._ (110er, bear.) He did trust that the House would not adopt that course, which would deny to the people the right to petition, and to Members the liberty of speech. General JOHNSTONE begged to draw the attention of the House to the fact that this was a motion without any notice of it. If the petitions of the people were only to be laid on the table of that House, and not looked at, nor their contents discussed, God only knew what was to be come of the country _(Hear, hear.) He trusted that this motion would not go to the vote on the present occasion. _( Cries of " Question, ques!ion.") Admiral COD RINGTON said that this was in truth a motion for rejecting petitions. Such a motion as that could not fail to bring on a debate, and he for one could not understand how the Noble Lord would be able to carry '.is motion into execution after he had succeeded upon it.—( Cries of " Divide, divide.' ) Mr. HUME entreated the Noble Lord to look at the consequences of the House coming to the resolution he now proposed for adoption. If he would only look at the mis construction that such a motion would be subject to; he felt that the Noble Lord would be the last man to subject 114111 self to the effect of such misconstruction. This motion would certainly intei fere with the right of the people to petition as well as with the liberty of speech ; and it would be far better for the Noble Lord not to press his moion at present, but to give notice of it for a future day. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the Hon. Member for Sheffield had left aim no alternative. Mr. J E R VIS hoped the Noble Lord would not press the motion to a vote on this occasion. Rather than that should be the case, he hoped the Hon. Member for Sheffield would withdraw his petition for the present, so that this subject might hereafter be properly discussed. lie for once wished that Mr. Speaker should not be left in the invidious situa tion of having frequently to interrupt speakers, There was nothing tangible in the present rule, and if t his mo tion weie carried, Mr. Speaker would have to be continu ally referred to to state what the rule was; and how were Members in future sessions, for instance, to know what the rule was, when perhaps the present Speaker might not then be Speaker. As a matter of prudence, he hoped the present motion would not be put to the vote. Mr. WARD had no wish to drive the Noble Lord into a hasty decision, and therefore he should have great plea ' sure in withdrawing his petition, and presenting it on any future day that might be more convenient to the Noble Lord.—(Cries of " Divide, divide, question, question," from the Opposition benches.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the course he meant to pursue was perfectly well known from the letter which he had published three weeks ago.--( Hear, hear.) Mr. HORSMAN said that he did not regard this as a discussion against hearing the matters of petitions dis cussed generally, but a discussion against hearing the Corn law petitions discussed.—( Cries of " Oh, oh," from the Tory side. ) As long as the discussion was on the ques tion generally, he took no part ; but now that he should vote, he desired to express his wish to the Noble Lord, along with his other friends, that he should not press this motion, which was liable to great misconstruction—a mis construction of which the Noble Lord would hereafter have great reason to complain. The Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Temworth, had expressed himself ex tremely unwilling to bring forward a motion of this kind, and after all that had been said, he hoped the Noble Lord would not persevere in a course that must lead to great in convenience. lug to Any matter which he wished to bring under the coo' sideration of the House, the course was for him to give ir°":' mediate notice of his intention to present that petition on, future day, which day was named. The petition was th e° - printed, put upon the votes, and placed immediately in the hands of the Members. The great proportion of petitil l ' e,' referring to subjects w hich were before the House . shape of notices of motion, or otherwise, were presented thbi Members, simply statin g th e places from which came, the number of signatures attached to them, and 11130 stating as fully as he pleased, but without reading thel l " (which would be contrary to the rules of tho House) tbl i , contents of such petitions. Those petitions were then Iv" on the table, referred to a Committee, e ither printed o classed with others of a similar import, the num ber . 0 1 signatures inserted in the Report, and, according to the progress of proceeding (probably within three or four , days), then placed in the h an ds of every Member of the !louse. These were the points of practice, and Wi t t i g' stated them the House would perhaps p erm it him to make one or two observations. He never forgot that h e was the servant of the House, and that he could only obel the instructions he received from the House. But • r as depended on him, he had anxiously endeavoured el, since he had bc'n placed in that chair to contribute , by *1 the means in his power, to the introduction of order an° regularity into the proceedings of the House--(H ear ' hear)--and to aff wd, as far as was practicable. equal jolfr tice to all.—(:Much cheering.) The advantage of the pre(l. writ practice was, first, that the petitions were pres elite • immediately, ir contents, the number of their gi g " ; tures, the places from whence they came, were witho delay made known, and the petitions themselves p i . °a in the hands of Members. It was attended with the kill'', titer advantage that the syl.tem was equal to all Meow'''. u and to all petitioners. All petitioners had a right top"- tion immediately, and every member had a right to Pre sent those petitions without delay. Lord JOHN RUSSELL then said it appeared t° him that the most convenient course now for him to Pill' sue would be, after what had been stated by Mr. Spes k „,,;" to move, which he did, that what had been stated by le Speaker be taken down and printed on the votes of !louse ; and to give notice that he should to-morrow, vr bat the House would have had an opportunity of seeing I' thll had been stated, submit his motion on the subject fo r approval of the House. STANDING ORDERS.• Mr. BARING moved the app o intment of the o f C on mittee on Standing Orders. Committee to consi , t, :! Lord Viscount Clive, Lord Ebrington, Mr. Estcou rt, s 7d Thomas Fremantle, Sir Mont agu Chapman, Sir Edr l c i r Knatchbull, Mr. Wilson Patten, Mr. Pendarves, rdißobert Price, Lord Visc o unt Sa n don, Sir George Str r. lind, Sir Matthew Wood. M r . G eo r g e Wilbraham , William Miles, Mr. Pringle. PRIVATE BILLS. The following Committee on Private Bills was then I s Pi Cpointed : —Mr. Shaw Lefev re , Mr. Baines, Mr. Robe live, Captain Gordon, Mr. [lope Johnstone, Mr. Vi lli . e n " Stuart, Mr. Strutt, Mr. Wrightson, Mr. George C ar r , dish, Mr. Compton, Mr. Handley, Mr. Robert p a l f ir , Mr. 13rarnston, Mr. Finch, Mr. Hope (Gloucester) , George Philips, Lord Viscount Eastnor, Mr. Ping n ba n I.3triog, Mr. Bell, Mr , Gibson Craig, the O'Cono r Sir Charles Style, Mr. Aglionby, Sir John Yardo 1 3 w i l i e b ." Mr. Crawford, Captain Jones, Mr. 'namely; Barneby, Mr. Chalmers, Mr. 'Patton Egerton, Mr. SS n!' field, Lord Worsley, Mr. Greene, Mr. Pease, Mr. P; ford, Mr. Edward Rice, Mr. Mildinay, Sir W illig o fleatlicote, Mr. Halford, Mr. Morgan John o•Colinc Mr. Lascelles, Mr. Wodehouse. S The following were PRIVILEG then name E . d as the Commit e° o l, o Lord , Privileges :—Mr. Bernal, Mr. Williams Wynn, - , Russell, Sir Robert P, el, Lord Viscount Clive, Lor" count Palmerston, Mr. Goulburn, Mr. Shaw Lefevre , flume, Si Matthew Wood, and all the Knights for Shire' , Gentlemen of the Long Robe, and Merchants, in the lOW •, PRINTING. hi d% Mr. Labouebere, Mr. Hume, Sir Robert Harry Sir Thomas Fremantle, Mr. Baring, Lord Viscount fled ther, Mr. Vernon Smith, and Mr. Strutt, were aPru. the Comittce on Printing. PUBLIC PETITIONS. Mr. BARING then moved the following Member ° 0 compose the Committee on Public Petitions:—Mr. Ocir William Wood, Sir Robert Peel. Mr. O'Conne ll, Robert Harry Inglis, Mr. Hume, Sir Edward Knatchbligr: Mr. Clay. Mr. Wilson Patten, Mr. Edward Buller , Greene, Mr. Macleod, Sir William H eat h co t e , Mr• rre s field, Mr. Yates, Mr. William John Blake. i O 6l Mr. lIUME begged that his name might be om from the Committee.—Agrced to. 'ING LWS. Mr. Baring, MrEXPIR. Attorney-Ge A neral, Mr. S° l ,, i- Sir General, the Lord Advocate, Lord Viscount How i " lo ho Thomas Fremantle, Mr. Edward John Stanley, M r • j o bn Parker, Mr. Charles Wood, Mr. Hume. Mr' e tr Jervis, Mr. More O'Ferrall, Mr. Benett, Sir John Guest, Mr. Bernal, were appointed the Committee on El P iti ' Laws. SALMON FISHERIES (SCOTLAND ). Mr. 'WALLACE moved for leave to thing in two the nature of which he would state shortly, and the P. o f would be still shorter than his statement. The ob i c io one was for the better regulation of the Salmon Fist,e c; Ito in Scotland, and the principle involved in it will t ° sing the time at which the fisheries commenced, by ca lose them to begin three weeks earlier an d f ie three weeks sooner. The objects be had in ,lic by that arrangement were to supply the P",,, ( 1 with a better quality of flab, a larger quantity , se at a lower price.—( Hear, hear.) NVith regard to th e A cond Bill, what be proposed was, that with reggir: those parties who had lost to a great extent their rigt . 'lo possession in that description of property, they olici g allo-xed to have the right for a a certain period of fi 5 ",, - , 3 % with the rod. He would propose to leave the period to until he had an opportunity of consulting those Nfe °l— „e• who were acquainted with the fisheries. It evas.n°t - be cessary for him to make a longer statement then $6 his felt satisfied that no opposition would be given 10 motion. Leave was then given to bring in the Bi" lt ' hod Mr. BAINES withdrew the motion of which he te d given notice for a return of the quantity of corn lib ergi from bond in 1837. The HON. MENtnesc gave notice that to-morrow even'e.ooi inn he should move for a return of the quant i t y of imported i n t o G reat B r i ta i n w i t hi n t h e last five year' FLOGGING IN THE ARMY. gec an d Capt. BOLDER() gave notice that on the,',." the reading of the Mutiny Bill he should bring unli ni ent andnotice of the . Hous . e the question of corporal 0 0 1' - prison discipline in the army. The Hous e th en a dj ourne d . _ 2... CORN-LAW MEETING AT LEITII. --- _,,Pi i ,tii o meeting on th e su bj ect o f t h e Corn- l aws wa s hei" i; the Trinity House, Leith, on Friday, Provost Wh ite 4oo? chair, supp orte d b y the Magi strates, and Messrs. d iop- Hay, Cold s t ream , S m i th, &c. The fi rst reso lution eg o. proving of the present system of the Corn-laws ag ooln; Wishing an unjust monopoly, was moved by Bad° oe nto who was o f o pi n i on that after the peace, our cc' nti to tb° neighbours could not be expected to shut their eYes suc h mechanical powers which had raised this co untry ° t heo)• pitch, and cou ld not h e prevente d f rom imitating t ons But th e very nature an d extent o f t he conill r oog proved the urgent necessity of enabling our % car er rate, and thereby be enabled to compotn population to obtain the first requisite of life at a c t hose nations that are so rapidly encroaching on branch of our commerce. Mr. James Malarcolct• conded the resolution. Mr. Berry moved, and M r. , c d hf stream seconded the next resolution, which WaSlriength Mr. John Watson, who said he could not go to the Corn' of that resolution. He thought the principle of should be laws perfectly just; but he thought the scale siW o r IP lowered, so that wheat should be admitted at a d, u , t i, as s _ t , when the price was 60s. per quarter, instead of present. Ile moved a resolution to that e ffect, 0 not seconded, and consequently fell to the groan"' 100 remaining resolutions were moved and seconded hi Mr. Philip, Mr. Hutton, Mr. Mitchell, Mr. liamilton•ssocia, William Taylor moved that an Anti-Corn -law t o tb° vttaht gr,ccs". r to tion should be formed ; which was agreed to. , or kiog bt petition founded on the resolutions being read, 3 c al ° r man objected to the clause in it, praying for a alteration of the Coin-laws." lie thought they c nj o b, o o3 s ask at once for a total repeal. This gave rise t star discussion, in the course of which Mr. Pcddi c t ec ting , maker, from Edinburgh, attempted to address the ;li e a l to' he was indignantly put down. In the cadrtlteratioo ration was agreed to, and the clause praying for 11.,,,g been was struck out. 'l he thanks of the meeting IT - ,edir moved to the Provost, the meeting separa te d• Advertiser. PATENT LEVER WA T xts (S 6 With silver double-bottom cases With silver hunting cases This celebrated construction (the most secure irop rer a watch can be made) is offered, with the lateFt,,.. l . ments e. the detached escapement, jewelled in , '': (1 , 1 0 0 _, capped hand to mark the seconds, hard enamel dittl,..; • oaf' taming Flown to continue going while winding up, AL price, by T• CO7i SAVORY, Lo des , Watchmaker, Silver . and Goldsmith, 47, C"n lia (Seven doors from Gracechurch-etree t) 7 c banga . N.B.—Second-hand Watches purchase Al...."! Mr. M YLNE could not accede to the observations lie had heard from the other side of the House. The present question had nothing whatever to do with the presenting of petitions. It was simply whether those who presented peti tions should be restrained from addressing the House. 'l'he privilege of presenting petitions belonged to the people, but when their petitions came into the House, then those privileges ceased, end the petitioners became subj._et to the rules of the Hon,e. He thought that the reproach from the Hon. Member who bad just sat down, might have been spared—that Members were afraid of the Coro-law petition-. He would rather ask whether it was not in con sequence of the Corn-law petitions that this question had now been debated as it had been ? As to the threat of the Hon. Member for Westminster, that there was a rival Parliament sitting in London, he for one, thought those Societies ought to acquire a little more power before they were brought forward a second time as a threat to that House. —( Cheers. ) Lord STANLEY said that he was perfectly satisfied of the absolute expediency, from experience, of adhering to the rule which had been found to be so exceedingly conve nient to the dispatch of the business of the House, and by no means injurious to the interests of the people. He was perfectly prepared, th ere f ore, to support t h e mo tion of his Noble Friend opposite; but his only hesitation arose from this—he was sure it would be desired by all sides of the Howse, that in framing a rule like this, it should be as far as possible free from the slightest misconstruction. — (Hear, hear.) He believed there was not a Member in the House, who had attended to the rule laid down by Mr. Speaker, who did not understand it; and that rule should be put in the most plain and formal manner upon the Jour nals of the House. If, therefore, Mr. Speaker should find any difficulty in expressing the terms in which that rule should be laid down at the moment, he hoped his s ht a o k e c r o n s s h i d o e u r l h f o e s e e l terms. Noble Friend would have no ob j ection to give four- and twenty 'm o u n ts t t h o e M o other e r Sp h e a a nd, p ke r i i f n w h it Mr e prepared at present to state that rule, then probably his Noble Friend would subsequently move that Mr. Speaker having stated so and so to be the rule, such rule be en tered on the Journals of the House. Mr. SPEAKER said he could have no hesitation in stating the substance of what he had collected to be the practice, which bad had the sanction of the House dur ing several Sessions. The first rule was, that in the event of any petition being off.A.ed to the House complain ing of any grievance requiring redress; that that l iesiti, n was immediately entertained and discussed. That the event of any Member offering a petition to the House. mixt of BIRTH On the 4th inst„ at Cole ford, near Frome, Jan e, the rife of the Rev. John layton, f a On the sth i n st., y in Surrey- o street, son. Mrs. Georg e Brice' Aff s. a son. On the sth inst., at No. 1, Bath-terrace, „,, of e Henry Shephard Law, of a daughter. ~ N o m' On the sth inst., at Camberwell, Mrs. B. K • 00 1°4 daughter. On the sth inst., Mrs. Edmund Davis, of Wells, se , the of a son. fielo' , On the 6th inst., in. Serle-street, Lincoln's-inn -- svir lady of S. H. Walpole, Esq., of a son. FA 4 On the 6th inst., in Queen-street, Cheapside, Mrs' William Andrews, of a daughter. fi gifi ll ' Kenningto, _ On the 2d inrt., the lady of James Phillipps, of W in the county of Hereford, Esq., of a daughter. the At Grenille House, on Thursday night, the 310 t1 e ',41.. Hon. Mr. Eeamish, lady of Francis Bernard Beam i " M.P., of son. OW' At Lisen, County Tipperary, the lady of Judkin Flog of a son. _.....----"-- MARRIED. 1)1 the On the 6th inst., at St. G eorge s , nano r ide, /1 , ver_aquar the Hon. and Rev. Thoma s C aven di s h, v i c ar of i" ve Isab el Rev. Edmund Holland, of Benhall Lodge, Suffolk, t;_,,insono Esther, youngest da ug ht er o f t h e R e v. S " Sir John Bart., of Rokeby Hall, in the county of Lowth. t ' On the 6th inst., by the Rev J. H. Bailey, A"' 1100 w Law' Pancras Church, Frederick, youngest son of the late • a Davison, Esq., of Bedford-rovv, and Saltgrass, Hants; vitool eldest daughter of Mr. John Gray, of the Nevr-roac, square. DIED. MO On the 30th ult., at her residence, North Brixton, Mary Ann Easum, aged 31. witlialis On the 3d inst., at Tunbridge-wells, Mary, wife of - # 6 . das h . Congreve, Esq., of Aldermaston-house, Berkshire, and of the late Sir William Pepperrell, Bart. 0, London: Printed and Published by MURDO YOYl4.no, No. 112, Strand, at The Sun Of fi ces, No. 1 2, kr " --- Ow outstay of Idialesex.-.-Friday, Vebroary Inted oPtity Ind, to t alade solel ep ee. and a "aeral Union 1 °navy ^ THI Sir Peter Andr ew c m erge Jinn Bari Su - - reti re th e "Y nisei v( Lotlib t ~The 13, s " 18th Vv , 13" Rail 5 °il More i °4; 1 11. q(.4l l.ttne Wi rk i i s RI! fA: Per -uve A. A lightfel th --I t cr. Et th e e T , the or ,1% %hid, tlelig libse th e Go A. I. tllh l a p )tt.r e C. th e ni tl t y bor 37 ! p