The Sun. — London, England, 1845-02-27 00:00:00

be of A ifl o ' 4 ;o rrtir t i c : : CA ti° )t c e i roLl to o r 130,, a it . 0 3pe r. tle ( 4 , • g t o c, ti pr sil o l it, (t oe o f w e r , W 1 1 .5 tro t pi 0 -0 111 i : r oo ) ,Lie l e ? >ogar for Li t :lt l V th i t ark ,dst°l-f i jrai ,) (Il i it ! ' f iti,r av • 5 1 ) e 18 1 to t ' i"ei 're s l e yor e ob l . n e ? 0 ; O f f p 's feel po'f of) L.ide ,os of t oe, t '6 , ;13e. o ite of 5. c o. foO o ef ef r - A i • s 141 ~,,..--w if political dogma out into it full for, They di d, it would de feat s conse and overtu q rn uences Z vithe ry thing which the desired to prove. They had applied this petit' 1 d • . ogma to the subject of bringing :lave n Zus ur into the markets of this country. It was ! that tu'ris , of thoso dogmas were correct in the princip•e winch they were intended to suppert, but there was also certain tendency in them, and if this tendency were 111111a1ified. those Hon. Gentlemen would find that, in me a pp li cation of th e i r d i , smas, t h ey d e f eate d t h e i r own en d• In the d( mile hich they had applied to the i t o aor ki r es e n l t g i lli eu of the in l iroductien of Fumy, they had over e . !' t ' the market's dement. The sugar grown i possession s had the command of a great numbt r of t ile mark: . ts of the amid. It ails a common nee( s le:st it had nearly become so—and cion -141""tly the sugar of the British p .sessions had less Ports s i t h. a, for they we re confined to fswer markt ts. osor of th e West India possessions were cense- Plt . iced under disadvant?geons . circumstances. d I 1. changes 'digs parties, wh o w. re deeply affecte_ as I its . 4 14 W — parties who, from their long experience an. stak e in the interest. now before the House, ought, s itl)iiu i:leopinion, to heard with great re i s . prt o or t l e t y lii or th e ~,t---thybie parties acre fsir judges - erations proposed in the sugar trade, t ' a e n p d might eon admitted with advantage as evidence of _the ati n c(ll4 'nees of the comp.iti.ion which the altti - i rr e h e s de e oln ef peti t , t h i : n ' t d o ilferential duties would create. th e gentietnen had entertaieed great fears oi which they were about to be sub .s "'lad had expressed their deep convictitn that the USIOTI of the sugars of Cuba and Brazll had tended 1 4r e e e4tl Y t" `scum to them a benefit a hich they felt to be s e •"arY to ki los Otis welfare. Had this not beeffi their con 6tslte*-had they nut been assured that they had a great rea yiew in the matter--they would surely have lo . ng the m to the pressure a hich had lain so lif3l%ily upon e s t• In - ' and would, if from tio ode r eatrie, yet for the s: th,Ze i lY aetting this question at r, st, and thus savi . ng of " - es from the injury a hich the constant discu l ion, 8 t i tte rb 1 1 occasioned—have last year joined with '' GI Cietilterean opposite. But they knew, as he (A r. twe sn 't t e b tl . e ) kutrr, that the re was a great difference be . h - A ls country and Brazil. The cheapness of labour cr uPleyment of slaves would have given to t "rsa Err at advantages after. the repeal l . o m use This benefit, the Noble Lore. said, fow ; i t elltahly have been shared among the consumers ; was re aPPeared to him (Mr. Gladstone) that an n trrz resps,itY Prevalent in the country, and in that et t t fl _ s , e b r'unt sl , t he quality of the sugars introduced . into this 4 tsvas - a , s t( uri Havat nah. The overage quality of the i TIPpo ed -- g sugar s was a high quality, and net, as it' was ;"glas s lowarrquality; and therefore it was that . the -11 0 „ . s u"o Gentlemen opposite to this subject was i t ' i t i r e u t ri s s rri tu one, for the application of this fact would Th ere the conclusion at which they had arrived. uf th e , s iss little doubt in his mind but that the .. abo l itit t m th e the 9111erential duties would give a great stimulus t his - , n , e i r e sse of Cuba and Breizil. It a as believed that . titien:tuulus would so act as to crett'e a great compe this- 14 the British market in the sale of sugars, that t his l e ,2 lll Potition would increase the demand,. and that d uni s i?fland womld be sati , .fied by the sugars of Cuba an . wi tho u t so that there would be abundance for the peope pen. that elevation of price which would otherwise be b,,enlned if the thanand had increased and the supply Itt o l f tl dted to the sugars of our West Indian colonies.. that r• Gladstone) did ra t share in the anticipation th e l it t o sugars of slave countries would so groyv in amou ti s „ . answer the . requirements of an increasing popula e 'er pros the contrary, he thought that there wasa eslosi„Pect of this increase from our West Indict t l a ; and he.believed that if their interests were not 4 B,tispred as to interfere with their produce, they would ds th Y th e demands of this country. On these grounds 44 ()light the proposition of his Hon. Friend neither tstitelcable• nor illusory. The Hon. Member (Mr. Pasilechere) who had sat down had said that this pro- Prost,'ett:neither more nor less than a renewal of the stie t h s 't‘oti of 'his . Hon Friend the Member fur Bristol; 'hje:l tw as not . the * * opinion of Hon. Members on his t . ; toe } Luse The Noble Lord had said that his ; 4 p- ! )rit igirg . mation, was to put the House ' e sPee kl , 3 : 4 L°r l of in certainty as to their future conduct tsiq--ng the .income tax. Now he (Mr. Gladstone) asla nt saY that, -for his part. he thought that he had . tilts ,Ilhe hear danything more shadowy and inconclusive (14 tar anything of the Noble dotLrd. He had talked . of '''tr e t '" 14P:, - and labour, 111 ,kse % ,. a s a - duty of 14s. on British-grown h TO would be a duty of 28s. on sugar t „ - " t ha ' (d as ,the produce of foreign countries, and had t'at 4t. t ltuat thi • l'ff , rence was acting as an impe.ch t'elti(),Ce salef s t ( h i e ' sugars ofJava and Manilla, which rrn t o the duties now imposed. He was com• ‘ , ; l. p direr from the conclusion of the Noble Lord, ; 4 tr e f e ,Wila nethino• revent the sale of these sugars, Tit eend or free'. 'This he would endeavour to shoN ti v f t ' l ' 4l.o ,' from the statements of the Noble Lord. s „ l "'s s4,„ws,tthat'the sugar likely to be introduced into i ll he' l 'Y was of two classes. These he would de- I lithe ; t he Clad and the Muscovado sugars, the latter --er quality nd the former of the inferior quality. isarsettware that he was not quite correct in describing w as re:) r qualit of foreign sur as cloyed sugar, but st 4 ,• Y - Now the duty on elayed fr,ritrt tient fur the purpose. 0 8 t . n ,gftr was 9s. 4d., while the Noble Lord was , the 44 5. Th e same terms were applied to .. cachpr ,ta o "dthili P higher d u ty t o th e higher quality, ..n 141 r th e i" s essiorts as well as from foreign countries, it nw 'r duty to the inferior quality from both. is was • • tsi 11 4. - zs. that all the sugar introduced from , At w hich was the largest source from which ar az a nt altect to derive ur foreign supplies of of 2.e sugars from Manilla mere subject to . t heh igh ug u ‘. 6l . C 3 , 8 1. 4d. According to the intimation of the 1: 1 C .1 1 a"' and of the Hon. Gentleman who had last sat C'it' l ' it Al;„,,,*stigar ould be subject to a duty of 285., 14 5 , 41. t roal British possessions t would incur a duty mistake, the sugar i N cis en l But here was a great s t y th 41 fro m_Manilla was rot all of the quality sub tl Ol j e high rate of duty, nor was the sugar from s 01 M n il th e sugar manufactured in those countries,. the . ih tl : l ity, ll ,: ll; the brown, - it was the former, the inferior was best fitted for these markets ; and . if tas (tl4 „ l3t wli e e r were inclined to send sugar of the best quality, P er t i l o was . subject to the highest . . duty, to this h a el l i. 4 e merchant who acted for .him the trans be b est fi t he commodity would select that which is Gi t ted for the markets of this country ; and tut ; 1 10,.. ‘ "t r dstone) would appeal to the experience of s i t, '!ember of that House acquainced with the tit ° s l ,Pri e - n ti ,, (l he might, in this instance, appeal to t h thi' the Member for Dover, as to his correct th:- so, respect He (Mr. Gladstone) could not IS' d h llps - , j et t i . v e that a * ny great injury could . arise from th at 1011 of these duties. Complaints had been 4 .6,. the sugars of the West Indies had lately st * t t , t .R 23 - per cwt. Now, when lie recollected the f Yex, e s e i a - , l t n tstances through which the proprietors t hey' and 4.l;_e West Indies had passed during thelast ssa 4" difficulties which for a series of years thpetichired, he must say, that he was glad to pert°th thi4thstZ ground s of prosperity ; and he eould which grudged them the little prosperity If "tot; ttuvanee evinced. It had been stated as an -4a Jes t i kit! lie n „° ll to the measure of his Hon. Friend, that % V lit " Were derived from it, that benefit would Ites tl ut t he Pockets of the consumer. The question tttl.lo(th'iether. the benefit would at once go into the !Sot It-",„! consumer, but whether he got that benefit "Is well known, that when a reduction first t tittu t-t) fir st ; t ue benefit invariably went to the producer feclY sr- 4astanee but who doubted but that it ulu totiit Mii s e , t l t to the ' consumer? He had received a . letter ° h 1 % l e'ter , th„ 'hi, h , complaining that in the reduction on t d 'w 7 `, 3 1 . g 'lad just been made, the goods were no lt s• y°, l oo ll s degree cheaper, but that the whole of ji n - ' had gone into the pockets of the pro fasiew' he (Mr. Gladstone) did not see any th e Nis s . ease of anv difference in this matter from th,*hes,fiaL Principle, anti he did not doubt but that 4P o ek et t tbe reduction would ultimately go into f e at , sa k ,,, ef the consumer. The fact was, the best , ti r qta sent Over to this country was unfit jlNltrefiner. But the fact was, the ie eala:sittZl.s_tt,gar of a lower quality, and the e x , lean h'' was sent over to Holland. [The Hon. ;Nio„ r te Produced a sample of the best Java sugar w e ] lion. Gentlemen would sse b . y rborwhiell he presented, and which was of a .1, 11 t b s __ any usual!seen in this country, that II Niohl: r i.11. the refiner, if not, in fact, beyond his art. 4r) sih . e ' tt "ii - ...L' o rd had stated er* that e was friendly to some. the • ray st . a Protection of Bs., and had stated that by ' .l 'ie l „ ll ,, t 'utv, i . e , l 9 Process this duty would have saved all ,Tt s . 11, te sets of the plan of his Right Honourable q l 3 C 1 'iad stated that the plan of his Right Hon. 11 1)t, suhstit W.asteful and extravagant, and th . at . frllte would save all the mischief tt h , l theern it—(llear, hear)—that it would have t he l 'a'N sugar trade, given a boon to the consumer, i f t in e4% e h INS to th ' e • tie If such were to be triete,"lollght the N re b l l en iao * d was bound to show ll tt r t l ie tl iv t tt s a, : ,, ,, e t ta e i ) l, h ii o n ,a tl e u re o r t , ° d w e o li c o l li l . n a r t p •a p i l n y generalities. He the Noble Lord's i? Of Practice. The Noble Lord would impose 'he t : 41,1 1 ,..0p the British and 18s. on foreign sugars, t , 1 , 1. 11 1 ,„° kind.lish or 2N on f 'reign, or 121. and 201. on 1 ' Pl t e l4t) °,o " o n f i sti ga.rs; * and thus he save the whole IN of s which was given to the country by b his Right lion. Friend.—(Heat, hear.) en tt ril lli t ' i n ti:', l ' r ig 4 ,ll : , sti v , tn , o e u d id tll ,. at . a duty of 12s. on British, and stimulus than 14s. 4 0 L il ted' - i n s ' 23 i. on ffile'ga greaterll s i flight lion. Friend wliole ore" ; p • n ' of the year at ( 4 5 () ; 4 00 1.th stip ; uttinsd_lole wo• C u o l n d su al u lo - t t v io that the consumption, ‘' l. ls„,',,u , h teh r the Noble Lord's plan, would be ette:l9.) Tio"ei'nConsideredthe a very liberal allowance. e re po i s import Of product of the duty upon the el 230 000 -tons of British sugar, at • •, w ssis , 9 /4) 1 %0 '."‘"l Lle 2 ,780,0001. ; and taking the in Rio th st ' , that7, 4 , o ll lort at 70,000 tons to make up the 14 oat Putti a : l yield, at 20s. per cwt., 140,9001 i ; ti ,.: 4 ,04, 4 ,160 , or _ ..the two tog( ther, they d wo ta n d e r ' i t i t i t s „ 1 ( . 1f learn e That plan, therefore,i, The next pr k o. }?l444sitl "ynrl t t !'e Ntl i r e v 4 l . l s l ; e l . 7s (i . le ti r e .) dutL h • of 10s. on 311 0 tet e) 181 * on allow] fi:reigar: sugar. 'Now he (Mr.. Nhis,'°oo wllld that to raise the consumption .11 (!y. 7 11 0 Ca u a Ift agh)—or from '280,000 to 290,000, Isi n 4 , l )a t n wou e ld 't greater although not so good a de o, r aritlita to t any gentleman acquainted with e r . 4 41 ? 4 " ,.. re1' s pilette point.out in what way, upon the is'etstcls Wens n 1 t he amount of revenue would be re -1141 soPttii% "f" near.) Now that was a very serious e 4 Ty or th e etes s t iPp s , the Plan of the Noble Lord, and he a h 'l 4 e siege elite Lord was not in the House, for nrets siori of it was accidental, as it tt P. ll PPos g us t h ts o N s \ 4 th e N _ e Noble Lord's plan, which he did sh lc is thi s , o "(de Lord meant to leave for him to fill Q l4 ',L li tat a Lord Lord John Russell came in and Oy Mid s t some laughter.) He had now . 4 ' 4 6a' Plan tt olit.r sv t 14L a,04 301 b 3, on erti..a s ag„res, that the Noble he g at p'' arid e s cale, would leave a deficiency of th.. to wti art ef.thY another 1 ,290,0001. He would not th o l i b ttw ll e ot h e i p ' s subject delay the House longer, but ti: r i sla ve ,Y i ng a few words as to the disinc at if gIMVn and free-labour sur. He 'Y were to p retend to anything like a r perfect and systematic consistency in legislating en ' these matters, the proposition of the Government must be sustained. But the question was now practically this, whether a ; ractical stimulant should he given to the slave trade by encouraging the sugar of Cuba and Brazil ? The question_had often been brought before the House by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, rod often been de d in favour of the distinction. In 1842 the lion. Member fur Dumfries moved fur an equalisation of the duties, and similar motions had since been brought for. ward. 11e (Mr. G.) could not say that those gentle men who insisted so much upon the interests of .eum merce ere inditrerent to the claims of humanity. They ought not to accuse him aid those alto agreed with the Government in this case of being indiff rent to commerce. because in the present case they were willing to make some sacrifice of commerce to protect humanity. The majo rity of the British Parliament had determined for years that the distinction should be kept up. He regretted that this question had been made me of ratty, and that in 1841 it led to a political crisis, the acerbity engen dered by which had not yet passed ae ay.--(hear, hear.) But he call , d upon G• ntlemen erposite to have respect fur the aseertai , ed and repeatedly-expressed opinion of the majority in that House.—(llear, hear.) In 1840 the lion. Member for Dumfries brought the subject of equalisation before the House. He propesed a duty of 245. on Briti.h, and of 345. on all foreign sugar. This was negatived by a majority of 95. In 1841 the qua soon was negatived, upon a division, of 281 ayes to 371 noel, making a majority of 90 against the lion. Member for Dumfries. In 1842 the Hon. Member for Taunton rroposed that the duty on British sugar should be 205., and that on all fore'gn alike 30z. TIKt was negatived; the ayes were 164, the noes 245. being a majority of 81. In 1843 the Honourable Member tOr . Lambeth moved a propositi. n, involv ing only a differeteial duty of 10:. upon all foreign sugar. The tnejotity on that occasion was 81, the numbers Mug, ayes 103, noes 222. That showed that there had been no advance of public opinion in favour of those Gentlemen's - views. —((fear, hear.) In the same year the Hon. Member for Taunton moved a proposition for the admission ofßrazilian sugar, and it was negatived by a- majority of 73. Last year the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) moved for a duty of 245. on. British, and of 345. on foreign sugar ; that was negatived by a majority of . 69. That was the seventh timee in four years, when Parliament was called upon to recognise the principle of the Noble Lord's proposi tion of that night, and Parliament each time gave a dt fi • nice and sensible response.—(Hear, hear.) He granted that there was a commercial feeling in the country against the policy of the Govertiment,:but there was still a more extended sentiment against rlavery, and in favour of the policy of his Right . HumFriend.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. COBI)EN expressed dissent. Mr. GLADSTONE—The lion. Gentleman need not shake his head.(A laugh.) He admitted the ability and sincerity of the Hon. Gentle man in the advocacy of commercial principles ; but he could not agree with him that.there was nut a strong feeling in favour of hu manity in this quarter. Sir. T. F. Buxton, Dr. Lush ington, -Mr. Sturge, and Mr. Scoleell, were all supporters of the political party now in opposition, but they were also in favour of the policy of the Government on - the present question.-a(Hear, hear.) And it was to be re membered that those were the men who had put an end to slavery in the British dominions.— (Hear, hear.) Whilst he called upen iion: Gentlemen opposite to re spect the often,asce rtained opinion of the majority of Parliament, he would remind them that their movement upon this subject excited little interest in the country or in the ,house, and that the interest was diminishing every. year.—(Hear, hear.) Surely it did not happen upon any question of interest that the benches should be so thinly covered, when the leader of the opposition brought f rward a great motion, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer was to answer.—(llcar, hear. and a laugh.) If he could see any likelihood that the Noble Lord would carry his principle even next year, he (Mr. Gladstone) might think it better nut to oppose it. But when there was such a stagnancy of feeling out of doors, and when the feeling of Parlia ment had been incontestably expressed, he called upon them (the Opposition) net 'to hold out prospects which only encouraged Cuba and Brazil in perpetuating slavery. They had it in their power, by keeping up hopes of equalisation, to prevent the success of the policy of Government in discouraging slavery in those places. — (Hear, hear.) With, respect to the imputation cast upon the British . people of being hypo critical in their professed desire to put an end to slavery—those imputations were snore discre ditable to those who made them than to the British people.—(Hear, hear.) lie could not admit that ' Mr. Colonhoun's book was„ns it had:heen characterised by an lion. Member, a statesmanlike production, and its im putations, upon the people of England were wholly un founded, and contradicted by the facts ; for the English people had made great commercial sacrifices, in ex . - eluding the trade of Cuba and Brazil rather than en courage slavery —(Hear, hear.) He begged of lion. Gentlemen opposite to consider what the effect of their proposition, ifcarried, would have upon the efforts made to put down the slave trade by means of an armed navy. With what decency could they shed blood and take life, in the attempt to suppress the trade, if they ren dered it necessary by the increased demand for the pro ductions of slave labour. The question of armed sup pression was in a great measure prejudged by the move ments of those gentlemen who supported the principle on which the Noble Lord's proposition was founded.— (Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Gentleman concluded by apologising to the House • tbr having detained them so mush longer than he had intended.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. MACAULAY said, if the motion had been one of a merely financial or commercial character, it would have been more becoming in him to have remained silent, because there were Gentlemen on both sides of the House more competent to deal with financial and commercial matters than himself. But he could not conceive that the question before them was either one of a commercial or financial nature, for he did not under stand that. they were called upon to decide the question upon pnrely commercial or financial grounds. lie took it for granted, that the objection to the motion proposed by his Noble Friend was one purely moral. They were told that they were under a moral obligation' to make a distinction between the produce of free-labour and the produce of slave labour. Now be was as much averse to the abominable traffic, which was at present carried on between Africa and the Brazils, as the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. He, however, thought that it was in his power to show that no such moral grounds existed as those alleged by Hon Members opposite existed. The Right Hon. Gen :leman the President of -the Board of Trade had ad mitted that this moral obligation restricted the com mercial interests of the ccuntry; and he (Mr. Macaulay) thought that if he succeeded in showing that no such obligation did exist, the proposition of his Noble Friend ought to be adopted by . the House. The Right lion. Gentleman who had just sat down had said that if the House were to agree to it, the Government would be placed in a position of considerable difficulty. The Right Hon. Gentleman dwelt upon the inconsistency which the Government would be guilty of, if they were to make no distinction between the produce of a slave and the produce of a free state. If they did not, the Right Hon. Gentleman said it would be impossible for them to continue their present measures for suppressing slavery on ahe h;gli seas. Now it was imposs ble for anyone to say that a person, or a body of persons, pro fessing to do a certain thing, for a certain moral reason, could be acting with consistency while they adopted mother course with regard to a similar case. It was - impossible, if this were so, to believe in the sincerity of those persons, or to place confitlence in their powers of discrimination But if this moral obligation were always to hold good the natural consequence would be to throw the whole commercial world into a state of confusion, and lie was glad to see the Right Hon. Baronet's Budget was rot based upon the same principle. He was far from deny ing the existence of this moral obligation ; but it . could not be applied in every came. Ile would give one in stance which would not only illustrate his argument, but demonstrate the discriminating posers possessed by lion. Gentlemen opposite. He would take the simple article of tobacco. Not only did they take the tobacco of the United States and of Cuba, which was grown not only by slaves, but by slaves eh() had recently been im orted in defiance of every principle of justice or of humanity. But they positively interdicted the free labourer of the United Kingdom from growing tobacco. For two centuries they had had upon their statute-book an Act which provided that if any tobacco was grown in England, except for garden purposes, it might be destroyed. This applied only to England.. At one time- Ireland commenced the cultivation of tobacco, and it opened an important labour market to the population of that country. At length, however, the English Legislature took alarm at this bold and energetic step, and they immediately and positively in terdicted the Irish freemen from growing the plant. Now he conceived this etas an exceedingly fair test of th e principles entertained by lion. Gentlemen opposite. It enabled them to ascent - tie to what degree they in tended to carry their consistency, which had been so eulogistically spoken of by the Right • Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of the Board of Trade. It he were to ask if they were prepared to give this restriction up, he was confident the Right Hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury, and the Right lion. Gentleman the late President of the Board of Trade, would in stantly answer, " No, certainly Not." And why not ? Why, because it would injure the revenue. The tobacco which was imported from abroad they knew was grown by slaves, but they knew also that the Custom-house, who were the people to go by, derived a duty from, this source to the amount of 600/. per cent., and in some cases 1,200/. per cent. If, however, this tobacco were grown by Englishmen or Irishmen it would lead to the greatest difficulty, and for this reason they would not submit to the loss in the revenue; and for this reason also they gave the monopoly in tobacco to slave owners. If this were right, if this were the moral obligation which Hon. Gentlemen opposite thought paramount to all fiscal or commercial considerations, what feasible oljec- . tion could there be to the proposal made by his li on. Friend. To be sure it might be said, and he admitted it, they found these things existing when they came into office, but still, if they maintained consistency, these statutes ought to be put down. But this could not be a just and honourable objection, for what was the Right Ilon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury about to do ? Why, he proposed to take away completely the duty upon cotton. Now, did he not know that this cotton was grown by slaves ?—(Hear, hear.) Could he make out a case of consistency after this ? Butit was said that cotton was not quite so had as sugar. Cotton was less destructive to life than, sugar. No country on the face of the earth produced mere human misery in slavery than the republic of the United States of America, and tin produce of that coot - try the Right Hon. Baronet proposed to admit free of duty. It was not the province of Members of Parliament to discuss the affairs of other nations, nor could they ex pect that such a course could have any salutary effect; but his constituency might ask why they should -take the duty off American cotton in preference to Brazilian sugar. The paper makers, the soap makers, contribu'ed largely to swell the income-tax, and they naturally asked why they were to be exempted from having their share in the benefit to be derived fr )in a surplus revenue. The answer was, Brazil 'maintains the slave trade. He (Mr. Mace.uley) said that in the United States the slave trade was more odious and de moralising than the traffic which was going on between Africa and Brazil. In America there were two classes of slavery. There were the breading States, where human beings were reared up and supported until they were able to be ar the fatigues of labour. Then there were the sugar and cotton States, where the slave was sent to end his days in toil. In the census of 1830 and 1840 they would see the fluctuation of human beirgs which took place in these two descriptions of States. In North Carolina and Virginia they would find an enor mous increase in the number of human beings. What became of them ? If they looked to another par tof the census they would ascertain. In Louisiana and Alabama they would find a proportionate decrease in the same period. Now, any Englishmen who had travelled in the United States must be aware of the humid state of tl.e climate of the places he had just named. Was any description of slavery more horrifying than the traffic which was carried on be twee n Africa and the Brazils, where they saw human beings driven, in bands of three and four hundred, from one State to another, in the same way that they drove oxen in this country to Smithfield. God forbid that heshould say one word in a xtenuation of any form of slavery, but this, he must say, was more horrib'e than the other. How a Christian could lrirg up 500 or 600 human beings till the age of maturity, and then send them to labour, which generally terminates their existence in five or six years, was to him most surprising. There was something in it that surpassed the acme trade on the coast of Africa. Brazil had given them the power to exercise the right of search, but the Republic of the United States stood out against the right and threw every obstacle in the way to prevent a sup pression of the slave trade. The United States, re fusing to submit to this right, had virtually taken it away; but not content with refusing to submit to the right, they held them'elves out to other countries as the fosterers and apostles of slavery. Could they wonder, then, that any nation entertaining notions of-national freedom and national pride, should say, " We do not know why we should submit—other persons have re fused to do so, and why should we do so?" It was all very well for Right lion. Gentlemen oprosite to talk about maintaining the right of search, but under their present system it was impossible they could carry it out. They would even have Spain asking to be released. 'I he reason the right of search could not be maintained was in cansequence of the conduct of the United States of America, and for the slave trade going on between Congo and Brazil, the United States were more answer able than any other power. America seemed to glory in being the evil genius of this traffic, and they openly avowed the it determination to encourage this state of so ciety.. Ile thought he had made out a case that the re public of tho United States had acted, and were acting, in a manner most culpable, and to them ought to be ascribed the evil ari'ing out of the African slave trade. On those grounds. then, he would say he thought he had made out clearly this fact, that of all the countries in which the slave trade was carried on, the United States stood alone as most determined to resist the right of search, and as preset ting every manner of facility for the continuance of the slave trade to a much greater extent than that between Brazil and the Coast of Africa.-- (Hear, hear.) But was it because the United - States had this facility in the slave trade that they would treat slaves more leniently ? or was it to be supposed that this was a reason why those jobbers in black flesh would not become more numerous than ever ?—(Hear, hear ) It had been said that this right of search would be a great boon, and one which all who detested the slave trade should applaud ; but he is ould confi ss be was utterly at a loss to understand how the Right Hon. Gentleman oFposite could reconcile it with his conscience to encou rage slavery in one part of the world, and lend his aid to a partial suppression of it in another, and he would in deed be very curious to learn how he could do so,— (Hear, hear.) There certainly was something like a want of consistency here, fur while in the Budget it was stated that the object which,above all others, the Govern ment were anxious to effect, namely, the suppression of the slave trade—they in the same breath said, that under existing circumstances they could not interfere with that trade in the United States.—(liear, hear.) It would be rather precipitate in him (Mr. Macaulay) to have anticipated such a course by the Right Hon. Gentleman ; but as he had adopted it he (Mr. Macau. lay) felt bound to state his reasons for the vote he should give in favour of his Noble Friend's motion.—(Hear, hear.) In the abstract he fully admitted and recognised the power and authority that moral obligation ought to exercise; and if an opportunity offered ler doing a bene volent and kind act, to neglect that opportunity would be highly blameable. There were sonic in the com munity ho would attempt to justify such a course ; but at the same time people were not bound to look after- the affairs of others to the prejudice of the interests of their own families. If they did act in this manner they would producs more misery than happiness where they intended the latter—(Hear, hear) ---and therefore he would mite, d for it, on the same principle, that a Prime Minister should not injure the interests of his own country in order to b, nefit those of others. lie would then say to tie Right lion. Baronet, it would be better, to taterniA the amelioration or removal, of a grievance that affixted the interests of this country, than to attempt to deal with that which did not. Ile would a-k lion. Gentlemen to look at the factory system, and he would ask, would it rot be ab surd for the Prime Minister to propose that he should undertake to supply a measure for the emanci pation of the serfs of Russia, and call upon the Emperor of that vast country to undertake the correction of the English factory abuses?—(Hear,. hear, and laughter.) Now in taking this view of the subject, he begged to assure the House he did not mean to el al in diffuse argument or sophistry; on the contrary, he conceived that this. was a common sense view of the question, and he bad adopted it in order. to vindicate his principles and state his reasons for the vote he should give.— (Hear, ,hear.) When he first came ; into Parliament he found the slave trade going on in unmitigated force, and he gave every aid in his power to bring about its.sup pression ; and the Right Hon. Baronet the Home Secretary, knew very well that he (Mr. Macaulay) resigned his office into the hands of Earl Spencer when he felt himself bound to differ from him on the slave apprenticeship project ; aid that, too, at a time when office was as much acceptable to him as it could be to any man.—(Hear, hear.) His resigna tion was not accepted ; but in the meantime the slave trade had been very much mitigated, and he was happy to be able to say he lent his aid to removing the stigma from England that the continuation of that -traffic in human flesh placed upon it. He now came to the ques tion of the slave trade in Louisiana, and his opinion was that it did stand in the same position as those of the West Indies ; for the former were obliged to nork from sunrise to sunset for the commonest necessaries of life. They, too, had a right to be relieved, for all nations were entitled to enjoy a state of comparative freedom ; and he would be as anxious to lend his aid for the amelioration of those grievances which Ireland had to complain of, as for those of the slaves ; but at the same time he should confess, that when he took up a New York paper, and read the Speech of the Presi dent's son against the Government of this country, he felt half inclined to retrace his steps.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The next point of the Right Hon. 13cronet's policy upon this question, to which he would call atten tion, was in reference to the refining of sugar. But here he would take the liberty of endeavouring to illus trate the course of the Right Hon. Baronet, by relating an anecdote which he had read in a Spanish novel, called Gil Blas." There was a character in that that put him foroibly in mind of the Right Hon. Baronet's public course. The character was an old silversmith, who affected great piety, and the most scrupulous and austere observance of all the forms of his religion. He wont to mass every morning, and never missed a day, while he was remarked as being continually counting over his beads. —(Laughter.) This old man made it a habit to tell his apprentice that of all human crimes there was not one of which lie had so great a horror as the robbery of a church, and that no inducement could he sufficiently strong to make him become a purchaser of any articles stolen from a church.—(llear, and laughter.) In a very few days after having indulged in one of those sermons to his apprentice, a very suspicious, ill-looking fellow came into the shop and offered a silver crucifix and other articles of church plate-for sale. The silver smith recoiled with horror, and said he would not buy them. " Not buy them," said the man, " Well, then, will you melt them down for me?" " Oh, that is quite another thing," said the old 113811—(Great laughter)—so lie took the precious relics between the points of a tongs and melted them down ; and then,turning to his apprentice, he asked him did he not observe how carefully he bad avoided touching the relics—(Renewed laughter.)" Now, he contended, that this was precisely the conduct of the Right lion. Baronet, in reverence to the slave-trade ; and he would contend for it that nothing could have a more immoral tendency than such quibbling with so vital a question.—(Hear.) He would ask, why seem to admire the doctrines of Mr. Fowel Buxton, or Dr. Lushington, and not practice them ? He did not mean to accuse the Right Hon. Baronet of hypocrisy, : but he would say, he could not but regret the influence his course would have on the public mind,—(Hear, hear.) When he remembered the strnggle that had been made in that House for the emancipation of the slaves, he si as indeed astonished how any of the Hon. Members oppo site could lend the weight of their influence and abilities to favour the present system.—(Hear, hear.) When the Bill was brought in for the emancipation of the slaves, the Right lion. Baronet said he could not take any part in it, and begged to be absolved from any share in the responsibility of it. And in the year 1833, the late Vice-President of the Board of Trade said that the reason such a cry had been raised about the differ ence between the amount of labour necessary for pro ducing coffee and tobacco, as compared to that of sugar, aros6 from the peculiar properties of the different soils, and cunt( tided that the grinding labour in this country was much worse. Mr. GLADSTONE was understood to deny that he ever had said any such thing. Mr. MACAU LAY—Ile could refer the lion. Member to the n port a his speech, and he would find he had quoted him corn ctly. But, speaking of the horrors of the slat-e trade, he could not help txpressivg his surprise at observing the manner in which Hon. Alemberi oppo site moval from side to side, instead of sticking to the West India question.—(Hear, hear.) Having now stated his reasons fbr the vote he should give, he would con clude by declaring it would surprise him much if Hon. Gentlemen opposite could reconcile their conduct with . their professions.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. GLADSTONE : , aid that the Right lion Gentle man had brought a severe charge against him—namely, that be had used conflicting arguments at one time or another, as they might happen to promote the West Indian interest. During the whole of these discussions he (Mr. Gladstone) had never, to his knowledg, said TIII4I_SUN, LONDON, THURSD A i 7 EVENING, FEBRUAR Y ‘z7, 1815. one word upon the -nature of the sugar cultivation, as being in itself destructive of life. In the year 1833 there was an extremely exaggerated notion abroad on this subject. lie had stated so then, and he believed se. still: but in all the speeches with which he had troulled the House in the discussions within the last four years, he had never said a single syllable as to, the On et upon human life of the sugar cultivation of Brazil and Cuba. He therefore begged to observe Alva the exceedingly severe charge which the Eight lion. Gentlema❑ had made was totally groundless and incapable of being sub stantiated. Sir J. GRAHAM, in rising to address the House. disclaimed any desire of elacing himself in competition with the Right Honouruble Gentleman who had just sat down. It would be disadvantageous for almost any Gentleman in that House to follow a speech so able and sa brilliant as that which had just been delivered by the Right Hon. Gentleman. — (Cheers.) And he could assure the House that it was from a sense of duty alone that he rose to address them on the present occasion. He felt more particularly im pelled to do so by the personal appeal which the Right Hon. Gentleman had made to him. That appeal re lated to a circumstance which redeunded to the honour of that Right Hon. Gentleman, and he (Sir James Gra ham) willingly bore his testimony as to the strict accu racy of the statement which he had made. It ref, rred to the period when that gie at question of emancil ation of slaves in our West India colonies was under discussion, during the administration of Earl Grey, of which he (Sir James Graham) was a member, a hen the question respecting apprenticeship arose. and the Right 119 n. Gentleman, then ho'ding a piece in the Govern went of Earl Grey, differed in opinion from the executive Government on a material point, affecting, as he thought, the interests of the slave, and he was anxious, by his vote, to support a particular arrangement for the ad vancement of that interest. The Right lion. Gentleman on that occasion, regardles s of all personal interests, and from a sense of duty, did piece at the disposal of the Go verntnent the office which he then held, in order that he might support that principle to which he wss attached. He (Sir James Graham) had token a part in public af fairs with reference to slavery and the slave trade, as he believed a consistent One. He was a member of the administration in which the Right Hoe. Genth man retired. He was a colleague, and an intimate colleague, of his Noble Friend the present Seer( tary forthe Colonies, whose duty it was to bring forward that particular mea sure ; and to the best of his belief, he had given that measure his cordial and sinekre support, and ever since he had had a seat in Parliament, he did not think he had omitted an opportunity of recording his vote in favour of the emancipation of the slaves, To the best of his belief he had given his uniform and constant support to the measures of emancipation, which, in his judgment, he thought conducive to the interests of the black- population of our coltinies. Be must he permitted to observe on the able speech which they had just heard, that, brilliant as that speech was, connected with one portion of the subject then under discussion, yet he could not regard it as taking a comprehensive view of the nature of the subject then under discussion. The Right Hon. Gentleman commenced his speech by observing that he would not deal with this as a commer cial or a financial question, that he would rather treat it as a subject touching upon political morality. Now he (Sir J. Graham) thought that such a great question as that under discussion could nut be considered in such a light, for this question could not rightly be regarded abstractedly as a question purely of political morality, discarding financial and commercial conside rations. On the contrary, he was bound to treat this question as one involving not only a question of political morality, but also a question of finance and commerce of the highest moment. The Right Hon. Gentlen an said that when he considered this question of slavery, he took a very different view of it. With respect to the slavery of the West Indies, in regard to political mo rality, and that of the slaves in the territories of other countries not immediately concerted with our domestic legislature, it was not for him (Sir J. Graham), occupy ing the station which he did, to follow the Right Hon. Gentleman into a discussion on the social institutions of a great country with which her Majesty eat. rtained amicable relations. At the same time, from muuy of the private feelings entertained on this subject—he was bound to say individually—that he could not express, with honesty, any great difference of opinion. He was bound to say, as a Minister of the Crown, that this ques tion must be looked on as a question of finance and com merce. He thought an abundant supply of sugar might be obtained at a lower price, with very great advantage to the consumer, by a reduction in the duty on sugar imported from the British colonies and British posses sions. —(Hear, hear.) He could not altrgether dis card from his consideration the present position of the West India colonies. He thought the Noble Lord who had opened this discussion did discard that cen sideration. Although the West India planters had been compensated by a liberal pecuniary grant, yet the means by which their property was cultivated was almost de stroyed. Considerations of humanity had induced them to impose restrictions on their obtaining free-labour as a substitute for slave-labour. Under these circumstances, he conceived that it was the duty of the British Govern ment to supply the British consumers from that merket. He could not discard from his consideration the fact, that in the East there was a population of 100 millions, who were ready to consume our manufactures to an almost unlimited extent. But they had not the means of paying with their produce, and making remittances. It should be remembered that there were places tinder this Government a hose native manufac tures had been entirely destroyed. They had a soil peculiarly well adapted to the growth rof sugar. An Honourable East India Director (Mr. Hogg), had said that the valley of the Ganges, pro perly. cultivated, was capable of producing a sufficient supply of sugar for the wile le of Europe, in dependent of all other sources. Now under these cir cumstances, the question was not one purely of a moral, but of a mixed consideration—of commerce and finance. Would the House permit him shortly to address therm upon what had been urged with respect to the dis tinction between freest:lhour and slave . -grown sugar? The Hon. Member for Dumfries was the first in that 1 - /Onso to trace that distinction. In 1840 the qm s tion was first raised by that Hon. Member. On that occasion the Honourable Member said that it was his wish to propose that the reduction of the duty should be made in favour of free-labour sugar, only—that he was anxious to confine the benefit of the reduction to the manufacture of sugar not made by slaves. On that oc casion the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Taunton resisted the motion of the Hon. Member for Dumfries. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Taunton, and tho NoblelLord and his colleagues opposed that motion. Or. t hat Occasion. the Hon Member for Sheffield (Mr. Ward) presented a petition from Sheffield, praying that sugar, the produce of free - labour, should be ad mitted under such advantages as to exclude all sugar the produce of slave labour, The Hon. MeMber for Sheffield, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for o vs n r t r r i y n . dnict lu n the debat e expressed th e op i n i on t h at t hi s pet i t i on w i' fiveof the f ee li ngs o f t h e people of this u which took place on that occa sionca 'reference was made to cotton and tobacco, which were the products of slave labour, being admitted into the British market. How did the Right Hon. Gentle man the Member for Taunton meet that case ? Why, exactly as they (the Government) did now. In the first place, the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Taunton contended that cotton and tobacco did not enter into competition with similar articles raised by free labour in our own colonies.—(Cries of " Hear, bear.") He thought, if he was not mistaken, that the expres sion of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member fur Taunton was, that he was not prepared to open a flood gate to the supply of sugar which would inundate the British market, if the proposition of the Hon. Member for Dumfries were carried. What was the language used by Dr. Lushington on that occasion? He said that the admission of slave-labour sugar was, in his opinion, an abandonment of the whole of thtir anti slavery policy, and that if it was their object to main tain that policy, it wou'd be imeossible to admit foreign free-labour and foreign slave-labour sugar on the same terms. That was not only the opinion of Sir S. Lush ington, but of many other persons who were distin guished advocates of the Emancipation Act, and who admitted that the measure proposed, if carried, would be a di parture from the established policy with regard to the slave trade, "and that it would be a national disgrace, for the sake of a paltry gain, to depart from a policy to a hich the faith of the nation was pledged. He had voted on that occasion with the ma jority. He had, in 1841, edhered to the same course which he adopted in 1831, and from that line of policy he had not receded. The Noble Lord who brought for ward the present proposition had made one or two hh at the ad missions in the course of his speech, which seemed t o hi m (Sir J. Graham) to be almost conclusive with egard to the he hoped the House w ou ld arr i ve that eight. West Indian p ropr i etors were entitled vote t e admitted tO which t to some protection, and that that must be given in th e s h a p e of a discriminating duty of B s. or 10 s. He ( S'r J. G ra h am ) wouldinto not the foilowhißight Hon. F r i en d t h e Member fur Newark calculations he made with regard to the effect this would have upon the revenuo. He believed th a t th a t could nut be effected without considerable loss t o th e re m give ean a to deny w as t h e i r o bj ect) without protecti ve d uty to the colonies (which venue. It was cot contended by her Majesty's G overnmen t that i they it was p some loss to the revenue. But it was erough that th e G o . vernment had benefited the consumer by reducing the p r i ce o f sugar by Id. or 11,4 d. per lb. Nothing w as so easy as to say, odsisdibl note to when you enunciate some general principle, that those who did net at once put it into practice were dishonest, but, on the other hand, those who would do so without considering all the bearings of such a course might be called absurd. Nothing was so dan gerous, when one was dealing with a great question, as to con sider it without reference to the circumstances which might surround it. He was of opinion that the measure brought for ward by her Majesty's Government would effect great eljects, would give to the British consumer a considerable reduction in the price of sugar, which was an article of first necessity. Com bined with that reduction of price it would give to the British colonist great relies from the difficulties of his posit ii n. It would give great encouragement in the East Indies to the growth of that particular product for which the soil was best suited, and all this would be effected without stimulating the slave trade, against which the faith and honour of the country was pledged. He thought it would he a difficult matter to re concile their professions of desiring to put down the slave trade if they opened - the British markets to the consumption of slave-la bour sugar. To make no distinctionbetween free-labour and slave labour sugar, would be to give a great stimulus to the slave trade. And to wake such a distinction would in his opinion be a great discouragement to it. Any such result fostered by the Legislature, sanctioned last year by a large majority. would be consistent with the course they had heretofore pur sued, end to which the faith of ,Parliament was plighted. tie had, therefore, no apprehension that a measure which lowered the price of sugar to the consumer, without departing from the anti-slave trade policy hitherto adopted, wou'd not receive the sanction of the British community, and he could not hesitate to give the present motion his most decided opposition. Mr. C. WOOD said he did not feel surprised that the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, had not at all adverted to the brilliant speech of his Right lion. Friend (Mr. Macau lay.) He did not attempt any reply to a speech, one the most brilliant in language and most unanswerable in argument which he had ever heard.—( Hear, hear.) The complaint of the Right flop. Baronet was, that his Right lien. Friend had only dealt with the political and moral view of the question, omitting altogether any notice of the com mercial and financial view of it. But. it was admitted, that in that view c f it the Government were out of coml.— ( Hear, bear.) His Right Hon. Friend took the political and moral view of it because the financial and commercial ore was entirely given up.—( Hear, hear. ) And his flight Hon. Friend had not left the Government a leg to stand on, as far as the moral aspect of the question went ; and the Right Hon. Baronet must have felt this strongly, for he did not eaen attempt a reply. In answer to the argument of his Noble Friend, that the Government measure would encourage slave• grown sugar, became the free-grown sugar, which now supplied the markets of the world, would be attracted to this country, and its place would be supplied with slave-grown Sugar, the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Newark said that the whole quan tity of free-labour sugar eyelid not be supplied by slave-labour sugar, though he admitted the measure had that tendency. Now he (Mr. Wood) thought that was mere quibbling (Hear, hear.) How could he doubt but that the measures of the Government would have that effect (Hear, hear.) With regard to the calculation of the Righollon Baronet (Sir -It. Peel) he said that 280,000 tons of sugar would be con sumed in consequence of the reduction of id, or Ihd. per lb. Admitting that his calculation was right, it would not give a large consumption, after all, for it would oi t ly be 201 b. per head in a papulation of 28,000,000 people. That amotint was consumed in 1831. There was nothing extravagant, there fore, in the calculation, supposing the price was lowered. But would the price be brought down ? He did not think that there would be any reduction of price equal to the amount which the Government reckoned upon. He considered that there would be no adequate benefit given to the commercial interest by the c iurse that was to be pursued. It was almost impossible to say to what particular species of sugar the duty would apply. He believed that there was the greatest difficulty in discovering the difference between white aid elated sugar. 'Three •fourths of the description of sugar upon which the Right Hon. Gentleman relied for procuring duty vas sugar of the higher price. The flight Hon. Cantle man had almost relieved him from the necessity cf saying any thing on this subject, by statieg that the sum ly from colonial sources would be larger than he had calculated. Of course, in that case, a less amount of foreign sugar would come in, and thus the loss to the revenue would also be greater than had been anticipated. He believed that., in spite of the course now pursued by the Government, they would in the end deal with suffer exactly as they had done with coffee. After re sisting the reduction of differential duties in the ease of coffee, they eventually came to the House and proposed that reduction themselves; it was his firm conviction that-they would pursue the same course with respect to sugar. Notwithstanding all that was said on the subject of slavery, the question, stripped of appearances, resolved itself into this—whether a heavy tax should be imposed on the people of this country, for the bene fit of the West India colonies? He thought the Government were to blame for not seizing the opportunity row afforded to them of admitting all foreign sugar. They would, in his opinion, have acted with more wisdom had they pursued that course. He did not believe that the benefit to the consumer mentioned by the Hon Member for Newark would be adequate to the locs he would feel from the differential duty. He was sorry, also, to hear that the income-tax was clearly settled ont hem for three years, and that there was no indistinct prospect of the'r having it imposed on them for a stall longer period. Sir It. PEEL said, one complaint that had le en made by the Noble Lord opposite was certainly unreasonable ard unjust. The Noble Lord said that the Government hid not, on this occasion, entered into any detailed explanation of their reso lutions respecting the sugar duties. Why, the wish of the Government was to have an opportunity of entering upon that detail, d explanation.—( Hear, hear.) They had that day given notice for moving the. Committee of Ways and Means. His Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was particularly anxious that the Govern ment should hate an oapurtunity, in that Committee of Ways and Means, of supplying that explanation which he ( Sir it. Peel), in the general statement he had made, 'had omitted to give. His Right Hon. Friend was interrupted in that inten tion by the Noble Lord bringing forward a motion, per:ecily fairly he admitted, hut which at any rate prevented his Right lion. Friend from of availing himself the opportunity he sought. The Noble Lord, in bringing forward his motion, , raised quite a different issue from that which would be raised in the discussion of the details of the resolutions of the Govern ment ; and the Noble Lord contended that before they entered into the Committee of Ways and Means, before they discussed the resolutions of the Government in detail, they should join in a discussion cf that question, which had been more than once discussed, namely, whether or not it was poli tic to exclude slave-I:boor sugar ft om competition with the produce of their own colonies. The Noble Loid avoided en tei ing on all the details of the subject, confining himself parti cularly to the subject—a g:eat and important subject—to which his own motion referred. He said nothing about the establishment of a discriminating duty on sugar, he said nothing of the details of the resolution ; he (Sir R. Peel) thought that the Noble Lord invited them to enter into the great question whether or not there ought to be any discrimi nating duty on sugar the produce of slave labour. They had followed his example, and endeavoured to imitate him. He thought, therefore, that with respect to the complaint of the Noble Lord that the Government had not given a detailed statement of their intentions, that complaint was quite without foundation.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord bad referred them to the income-tax. Now, he ( Sir R. Peel) was cer tainly surprised at observing that while the Noble Lord con stantly attacked the income-tax, and denounced the policy of continuing it, he yet expressed his determination to vote in favour of it.—( Cheers and laughter.) Why, if Hon. Gentle men opposite d'sliked and disapproved of the income-tax, why slid not they vote against it ?—( Cheers.) If it was such an inquisitorial and oppressive tax, why did they concur with him (Sir R. Peel) in the proposal for continuing it for a longer period?—(Cheers.) And observe, it was stated that the Government gave no sufficient guarantee that the income tax would cease at the end of three years. They said themselves that they saw every probability of its continuance beyond that period. Why, how could they reconcile this declaration with their vehement objections to that tax—( Hear, hear)—while they were so passively content to go on with him in its fa vour?—( Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman opposite said that he (Sir R. Peel) had convinced him that there would not ac tually be a su.plus—nay, that at the end of two years from the present time there would be a small deficiency, and therefore he voted for the income-tax ; he voted for it to supply that de ficiency. But the Honr Gentleman contemplated (rely a small deficiency of some 500,0001. or 600,0011., and if it was no more than that amount, surely their fitianciaaingenutty might supply (that without recourse to the income-tax. Why, he (Sir Robert Peel) asked him to vote for a tax producing 5,200,0001 a-year ! and yet the Honourable Gentleman said he was content to continue the present tax.—(Hear, hear.) He said that at the end of one or two years there would be a small deficiency—and, therefore, the Hon. Gen tleman came to the conclu,ion, not that a small tax producing some 500,000/. or 600,000/. should be imposed, but that a tax producing the large sum of 5,200000/. a year should be continued in operation.—( Bear, hear.) And this, not for three years onla, for the Hon. Gentleman said himself that he believed it would be imposed for six. But at the end of three years it was very pessible that the Hon. Gentleman might he reminded elsewhere of his support of this tax, and therefore at the beginning of 1845 he thought it prudent to leave it on record, as it might be convenient to him at the end of 1848, that he had in debate disapproved of this tax. The fact was that Hon. Gentlemen opposite decidedly approved of the proposition of her Majesty's Government.—( Cheers, and laughter.) It was not because they saw a probability of a small deficiency that they voted for this tax, but because they saw that this was the proper time to try a great, and, he would call it, a bold experiment with respect to the taxation of the country !—(Loud cheers.) But Hota. Gentlemen opposite said, also, that the attempt to make commercial treaties with other countries had failed. Had he ever denied it.?—(hear, hear.) And her Majesty's Government proposed this—that as other countries would not enter into those treaties, at least as far as the negotiations with respect to those treaties were protracted for a very long time, so that the relations of com merce were thereby disturbed in the meantime, while in the end the negotiations did not come to a satisfactory termination —they proposed measures, not stipulating for any reciprocal advantages from other countries; but believing the reductions they proposed to make to be intrinsically good, and calculated to promote their own interests, they were ready to make those reductions, trusting that the efficacy of this example would ulti mately tell on other countries. If her Majesty's Government ' had been wrong in their attempts to make these commercial treaties, at all events it was an error into which other Govern ments had also fallen. Up to the present period, every Ministry had attempted to make commercial treaties, and if other countries w old enter into them, it would doubtless secure a double advantage. It would secure the great advan tage of carrying on a traffic with many of those countries ; it would also be a great advantage if they induced those foreign nations to make reductions in their - duties on the produce of this country. But the question was, should they propose a great beech to themselves, in the hope 'of, in time, prevailing un those other countries to give them the benefit of reciprocal treaties? The Noble Lord approved olthe proposition of the Government.—(Cheers.) Then, he also approved of the income-tax. If he did not, would the Noble Lord ask them to remove three millions of taxation without that tax? It was impossible that lion. Gentlemen opposite could, in the face of the country, reconcile the votes they were giving, with their speeches, under any other impression that would be favourable to them,except that they approved in their hearts of the proposition of her Majesty's Government.—( Cheere. ) Now, he must own, after reading the resolution of the Noble Lnrd, after havin g listened to a great pa r t of th e s pe ec h o f th e N o bl e L or d, he could not understand why the Nible Lord did not, the other evening, vote for the motion of the Hen. Member for Man , chester (Air. AI. Gibsori).—( Cheers.) A great part of the speech of the Noble Lord was occupied in show ing that they were putting money in the pockets of the West Indians, by establishing in their favour a discriminating duty ; that that was a great loss to the consumer in this country ; that the State did not get the whole benefit of it; that the difference was not divided b tweet' the consumer and the producer, and that a large share of the reduction went into the pockets of the producers.— (Hear, hear.) Why, if he (Sir R. Peel) had not read the resolution of the Noble Lord, and had only listened to a portion of his speech, he should have taken it fur granted, that the Noble Lerd was one of the Gentlemen who would have given their cordial support to the preposition of the Hon. Member for Manchester. The Noble Lord appeared to be oscillating between theta° benches and the benches opposite.--Laughter and cheers ) For the Noble Lord had made that excellent speech in !ariser of the motion of the Hon. Member for Manchester, and then sai "on account of the position of the West 'tidier; colonies, con sidering the great experiment they made respecting slavery— considering that sufficient time had not elapsed to test that ex periment, he was exactly of his (Sir R. Peel's) opinion, that the West Indies hod a good right to protection," The Hon. Member for Stockport, assuming all the airs of an injured fair one—(Laughter)--said, on a former evening, that he (Sir itobert Peel) had jilted him.—( Great laughter.) He ( Sir Robert Peel) felt very grateful to the Honourable ?.1i tuber for the support to which he hail referred as having given him, on another occasion, on the proposition of the Honourable Member for Bristol (Mr. Miles) when he (Sir It. Peel) had the good fortune to vote with the Hon. Gentleman, on the only occasion on which he had ever voted with him in Isis life. The proposition of the Hon. Member for Bristol was, that the duty on colonial sugar 'should be re duced to 205., and that there should be a discriminating duty on sugar produced by free labour, which was not sugar of British production. That was the propcsitionof the lion. Member for Bristol. lie (Sir R. l'ecl) slid he thought the reduction of duty on West India sugar to 20s. would be of very 1 tale bent fit to the geueial cat sumer, and that he thought it was infinitely better, when they made a reduction, that it should be such a reduction as would be felt ; and he had held this language that unless a discriminating duty was established as to the rro• duce of Br.tish plantations, they should not attempt to impose a duty on sugar the produce of free labour. 11 the House would not sanction the imposition of a discriminating duty on sugar the produce of British plantations, they ought not on sugar the produce of free labour. lie thought II sit. Gentlemen might with justice accuse the Noble Lord of "lb rut ion." The Noble Lord, at the beginning of the preset.t session, said that " protection" was the bane of " agriculture." That phrase sounded remarkably well; but if the question were t t o , u u t a i i c i l e e t that the i, is b a N n o e b 0 1 "Noble a L g o r r i d e u o i t o u u r e l i . l put to the Noble Noble Lord that all protection to agriculture —(Laughier, and cries of " Hear, hear.'.') The Noble. Lord JOHN RUSSELL made an observation which wa s laid down the general principle that protectiou was the bane of it7ccr,erdimbvisedcotle.t for the et ' Sir ROBERT PEEL.:—Oh, but the Noble Lot(' said, at iangar•:: Lorcacd u il u e e n . the gallery. the close of last session, that he thought agriculture was fairly entitled to protection.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) He said he thought so, on account of the local charges to which agriculture was subjected, as well as on account of the malt-tax—( Renewed cries of " Hear, hear,")—and the Noble Lord did disturb the agricultural mind during the recess, by holding out Strong expectations that he should propose some measure fur removing or diminishing the malt-tax.—(Cheers. an d cr i es o f " H ear, hear.") " His agricultural friends—( Laughter) —were in expectation of some propositicn of this sort.—( Hear, hear.) But the Noble Lord would content himself with voting for }l's proposition for re moving the duty on cotton,., and the Noble Lord would rote with him if the question should be introduced, notwithstanding his previous calculations against any reduction of the malt-tax. —( Laughter and cheers.) The Hon. Member should no' say that he ( Sir Robert Peel) had jilted him. It was the Noble Lord who had jilted him—( Renewed laughter)—with those fine promises ; and w hen the Hon. 'Gentleman came to the Noble Lord, asking him to fulfil his dec'aaations, the Noble Lord turned round and voted with him ( Sir Robert Peel.)—(Cries of Hear, hear," in which Nlr. Cobden and other leading Members in the Opposition joined.) He thought it was better not to enter into all the details of the resolution. He would Confine himself to the question whether or not it was right that swear, the produce of slave labour, should he admitted into competition with sugar, the produce of free labour. He was glad that this matter bad been discussed in the tone and temper in which it had been. It was a question involving great financial considerations. Although they had been charged with hy pocrisy, he believed it was their duty as Ministers of the Crown to bear with those imputations. Every Ho nourable Gentleman who had used them had disclaimed any intention of giving offence ; but the Right Hon. Gentle man had certainly charged their. with dissimulation in no very courteous language. But the Right Hon. Gentleman added that though he disliked the proposition of the Government, nothing was further from his mind than to charge them with hypocrisy, " Although," he said, " you have recorded a reso lution recognising this principle, if it were not for that resolu tion and a mistaken idea of consistency, I am convinced you would hare taken a different course, and one more in accord ance with your own convictions." In short that they, the Go vernment, would not have excluded slave-labour sugar from competition with sugar the produce of free-labour. Now, he must say, that having considered and recoxsidered the subject, even if this resolution had not existed, he should not have been prepared to admit sugar the produce of slave labour into competition with sugar the produce of free labour. Notwithstanding the very able speech of the Right Hon 'Gentleman, he did not thinkit would he just towards our colunies, - or at all consistent with the principles which they had avowed in the face of the wprld, to. admit sugar, the pro duce of slave-labour, at the same discriminating duty into competition with free-labour produce. First of all, concerning the, question of policy. So far as this country was concerned, if we regarded commerce and fiaance alone, he was bound at once to say that he could not defend this duty-a-( Hear. hear, from the Opposition.) He thought, upon mere ab stract reference either to finance or commercial considera tions, they ought not to make distinctions between free and shave-labour sugar. But it was impossible to dis regard the condition of the West Indian colonies.— ( Hear.) He admitted that Parliament had behaved with great liberality so far as individuals were co nce:nc d, and that a great pecuniary sacrifice had been made ; but he did not think that pecuniary sacrifice, however onerous to the people of this country—however complete as a compensation in in dividual cases—and he doubted that it was complete—but he did not think, he repeated, that that relieved them from the necessity of considering in what relation we were to these co lonies, nor would it justify them in admitting slave-grown sugar into competition with theirs. Now, first as regarded, the slave-trade and slavery. You would tell them in that case, to enter into competition with Brazil anti Cuba, countries where not en!) , slavery existed, but where the slave-trade was carried on to a great extent, and in violation of public engagements. No doubt hut after some time the colonists, set h free labour, might be ultimately able to compete with slave labour. It might be gainful to the commerce of this country to admit sugar, the produce of slave-labour, and to the consumer as well, but it would so disturb the relations between this country and foreign countries, so traterially interrupt progress towards an improved condition, and so disable the colonists from bear ing the burdens to which they were subjected, that he doubted whether, Wtimately, if we maintained existing colonial rela tions, the sacrifice we would be obliged to make for their inte rest would not countervail any immediate advantages from sacrificing the produce of these colonies. The Right Hon. Gentleman asked how it was possible for them, with any re gard to consistency, to make the proposition they had made, looking at what they had done in respect to the admission of other articles the produce of slave-labour. How was it possible (continued the Right Hon. Gentleman) to make a proposition regarding particular articles, the produce of slave-labour, which they would not extend to other articles likewise the produce of slave-labour. And he referred in particular to articles the produce of the United States. The Right Hon. Gentleman spoke with the greatest indignation at the state of society there, in relation to slavery. He had not only ani madverted on the state of the law and usages of society there, but adverted to the declarations made by public men and the acts sanctioned by the constitutional organs of public opinion. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, that if there was any country against which tha indignation of the civilised world -should be directed it was the United States of Anieriea—that the United States continued slavery in its most aggravated form—that there were some States which bred slaves for the purpose of labour—that the United States was the Power which had pre. vented the extension of the right of search, which if universally adopted would be effectual. '1 he Right Hon. Gentleman said that the present state of public opinion in France would not have existed if the United States had not resisted the right of search. All that might be true. But the United States had a right to continue this condition of slavery —they had a right to refuse being parties to the right of search. They might have been very unwise to take either one course or the w her, but being an independent Power they had a per fect right to use that discretion. The Right Hon. Gentleman said that we admitted their cotton, and why thould we exclude their sugar? The Noble Lord did not think that it would be wise to interfere with the proceedings in this matter of the United States. He did not think that it would be either right or wise to interfere with the slaves passing from one slave State to another. Heseemed, indeed, as he had said, to en tertain great doubts whether, by such interference, if he did in terfere, he would be in any way serving the int( rests of hu manity. But what, notwithstanding all this, did he say ? lie charged the Government with hypocrisy, in refusing to admit sugar the produce of slave labour, while at the same time, by the repeal of the duty, they had given free admission to cotton, which was the produce of stave labour also. But what was the crsc? There was a material difference between the two articles—there was a material cliff, rence between the production of the sugar of Cuba and Brazil, and the cotton of the United States. The labour necessary for the production of cotton was far less than that necessary for the production of sugar. Again, there was a material difference also in the healthiness of the cotton plantations and the healthiness of the sugar plantations. But he (Sir R. Peel) did not mean to rely on that; but he did rely on this—that the two countries which would enter into competition with the sugar of our colonial possessions— Cuba and Brazil—were placed under very different circumstances from those colonies, and it was necessary to consider this, in the imposition of the duties on sugar. The Noble Lord had said that he recognised certain duties which he bad to fulfil to his own country and his family. The slaves, he acknowledged, were so situated in relation to him as to give them a claim on his humane interference. But he said, at the same time, that he doubted whether his inter ference would do them any good. Now he (Sir R. Peel) did beiicve that the importation of slave-grown sugar into this country inflicted such an injury on the lowest and most help less of all human beings, and such indeed as to give them a claim on our sympathy and interference. He said this claim Vllt3 the greater frcm the injury being inflicted on the most helpless of huMan beings—he meant the negro population. What was our position with respect to the slave trade? They had put themselves into a position to interfere with those countries which deal in slaves. We had resolved to do all in our power to put down the slave trade wherever it might exist.—( Hear, hear.) For what purpose, he would ask the Noble Lord, was it, if not for this, that this country had constituted its cruisers the ge neral police of the world? The Noble Lord thought that we were unwise in this respect, anti that might he, but we had used cur utmost exertions to put down the slave trade. Other countries had engaged to co-operate with us in this great object. Many persons say that we are unwise in having entered into ties undertaking. He did not argue with them, he argued with that House ; and he did say, that having entered into that undertaking, it was their duty to carry it out. In 1837, the Hon. Member for Oxford had - said that those countries would zealeusy co-operate with us in the suppression of the slave trade. They had accordingly entered into treaties with Spain and Portugal for this object, and the Governments of those countries would do their utmost to suppress that abominable traffic. From various circumstances, the effect of this traffic was removed from us. We did not carry on the stave trade ourselves, and, therefore, its horrors were not brought before us. But he did believe that those horrors were in no way de creased, and he had a firm conviction that, if the sugar, the produce of slave-labour, were to be introduced into this coun try, it would give a very great stimulus to the slave trade, and increase those horrors which we had been at so much pains and expense to prevent. It was thought, and said by some, the anti-slave trade feeling was extinct in this country, but he believed that such was not the case, and that if the exertions which had of late years been made by the country to suppress the slave trade had rendered that feeling dormant, it had not by any means been extinguished. He did believe that, though dormant now, the feeling would immediately revive if any measures were to be taken which were likely in any way to re vive the horrors which that feeling protected. What were these horrors? In a space where the sleeks were only from two to two-and-a-half feet apart, between 600 and 700 human beings were crowded and transferred in that state from the coast of Africa to Cuba and Brazil. Only conceive the hor rors of from 600 to 700 human beings being crowded into such at space, and enduring through the whole of the Middle Pas sage in a confinement of two feet-and-a-half. On their arrival in Brazil, their limbs were so paralyred that they were unfit for the business for which they had been conveyed there. The two countries which carry on the slave-trade are those countries whose produce the Noble Lord was desirous to in trodue.3 without discriminating duties. Beside the advantage which those countries possessed in the cheapness of slave labour, there was also another. In Brazil there was more fresh land, virgin land, than in any other from which sugar was introduced into this country. Now, the opening of the markets for the importation of Brazilian sugar, without any differential duty. would be greatly instrumental in promoting slavery. The effect of the efforts of this country showed the full advantage derived in the suppression of the slave trade. Last ,sear the number of vessels captured and condemned was thirty-seven or forty-seven vessels. In 1844, as compared with 1843, it appea , ed that the vessels condemned by the Commission Courts—tie did not elude to the Admiralty Courts—was in 1843 fifteen, while in 1814 they were thirty- , five. 'I his, it might be said, was an imperfect test, and he saes bound to snow it, for he believed that as many slaves were now landed on the coast of Brazil as there ever were. They did not diminish, but this was to fault of the arrangements with that country, but the fact was the a uthorities neglected tlicir duty in this matter. In Cuba, when General Valdez (who was appointed to the office by Espartero) was Governor, to les honour be it spokon, h e bad honestly and earnes tl y exerted himself to sup] rocs the slave trade. During his goveinment the efforts to that end were eminently successful, and the number of slaves intro duced into Cuba declined from 13.t.,00 to 12,000, to 10,000, and in 1842 to 3, (9. And he ( Sit R. Peet) believed, th a t if General Valdez had remained, the slave trade in Cut:a would have been altogether suppr esse d. I n Brazil, he be lieved the authorities were equally sincere, but private ii:te terest had proved too powerful for public duty, and the slave trade had revived, artl, withnut the concurivtice of the au thorities, he believed it would revive. Would it be consis tent to have a naval armament upon tim coast the ostensible urpose o f p revent i ng the ve trade, for and, at the same time, t o h ave vessels laden with .sugar, the produce and and the supp or t o f t h at trade, sailing from Cuba and Brazil to our ports ?—( Cheers.) Those countries had entered into engagements with us for prohibiting the slave trade, but they had not fulfilled those engagements.—( Heel-, hear.) Ile must admit that there Aremcd to he some inconsistency in allowing the importation o f slave-grown cotton, an d pro hibiting sugar.— (Hear.) He owned it was difficult to take any course on those subjects that would not be. liable to the imputation of inconsistency. Btu he did not think that any one on the opposite side of the House would prohibit the importation of cotton which was the production of slave labour. —(Hear, hear.) But the question was, whether the importa tion Of sugar from Brazil and Cuba, which was the great curse or the negro race, was to be permitted or not ? The growth of sugar in those countries was the greatest. aggravation- of all the horrors of the slave trade.--( Heai, hear.) 'The question was not whether we were inconsistent or not, but what was the course which we should pursue, all things considered, for promoting the great interests of humanity. We had entered into engagements with other Governments, who joined with us in establishing a sort of naval police onlhe coast of Africa. Now, they might depend upon it, that if this country were to take measures fur receiving an un limited quantity of sugar from Cuba and Brazil, we could not expect the co-operation of the Governments who 'aided us in cur efforts for the suppression of the slave-trade, whilst we encouraged it with one hand, and thwarted it feebly with the other. He believed that the Governments of Europe were alive to the real state of this question. They felt that after the measures we had taken it was not safe for them to continue slavery in their own posses sions in its present state.—( Hear, bear.) The King' of Sweden had very recently taken measures fur its modification in his peasessions ; and the question of abolition in the Dauish colonies was under discussion in the States of Denmark. A petition, most numerously signed, had been presented to the States, praying slavery to cease.—(Cheers.) In France the question was under serious consideration whether slavery should be continued or not. And Portugal was making honourable ef forts to fulfil her engagements with this country. Even in the United States, where there were peculiar obstacles—where. there had been a resolution of Congress that no petition for the abolition of slavery should be received; public feeling was un dergoing a change—the resolution was rescinded, and now .it was competent for every Member to present such a petition.-a -( Cheers.) He might venture to say that, notwithstanding the state of public feeling in the United State.., it would be very difficult to maintain slavery there on its present footing. It was not for him to offer any opinion upon the internal po licy of the United States—( Hear, hear)—but, speaking of Europe, he believed that there prevailed through Ger many, France, Sweden, and Denmark, a strong opinion that the time had arrived when they ought to follow the example et England—(Cheers)—that the time had arrived when an end should be put to the state of slavery.—(Cheers.) He hoped that the House would not come to any decision which would interrupt that course into which the current of public opinion throughout Europe had turned.—( Hear, hear.) England was now admitted to be the only power that took effective measures for the suppression of slavery—which made vigorous, deter mined efforts to put down the slave trade on the coast of Africa. Hear, hear.) There might be an inconsistency in ad mitting cotton the produce of slave countries; but that inconsistency did not affect the moral position which England held in the eves of Europe en this question. The efforts which we had made were acknowledged as most generous, nil even splendid. But if we departed from that course—if we unintentionally, but practically and certainly, encouraged the slave trade, by admitting the sugar of Cuba and Brazil, it would be an admission that their efforts hid failed, and it would appear to justify the assertion of Mr. Colquhoun, that we were reviving the slave trade on the coast o Africa under the name of apprenticeship. Whatever imputa tion might have been cast upon him ( Sir R. Peel) for the course which he hail taken upon the reaulutions in 1541, he assured the House that if he now stood unfettered, he would vote against the proposition of the Noble Lord—that sugar, the pro= duce of slave labour, should be admitted into the markets of Great Britain.— ( ( heers. ) ' . Lord PA IM ERSTON said that, whatever might be the re. suit of the debate, nothing could' be more- satisfactory to him than the discussion.— ( Crieers and a laugh.) The Right Hon. Baronet had made no attempt to, answer the arguments which had been urged in favour of his Noble Friend's proposition.--' ( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet, as was usual with expert d haters, began his speech with topics in no way relavant to the question. The Right Hem Baronet began with the income-tax, and taunted the Opposition with inconsistency in supporting that tax, and complaining that use had not been made of the surplus, so as to enable the GovernMent to dispense with it at the end of three years.— ( Ikar, hear.) It was perfectly consistent for • men to think that protection was the bane of the interests which it was meant to prosper, and at the same time that it was not ex pedient to withdraw it from the interests which had been long vested upon its faith. The Itight Hon. Baronet had taunted the Opposition with their want of success in their commercial treaties with foreign Powers. Now, the Right Hon. Baronet some years ago seemed to expect that when he came into office he would be able to settle these matters. What was the fact? Why, the Right Hon. Baronet's Government had en tirely failed.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet threw over the commercial and financial part of this question, and justified the distinction they made between free-grown sugar and slave-grown sugar, on the ground that they had under taken to do all they could to suppress the slave trade. In this respect, his ground was much narrower than the ground taken up by his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade, because they took their stand upon the general prin ciple of humanity, and contended, upon that principle, that the country ought to do everything toward discouraging slavery and the slave trade. The Right Hon. Baronet renounced this advantage, and took his stand upon the arrangements existing between foreign Powers and Great Britain, on the subject of the slave trade. The Right Hon. Baronet, in reply to the un answerable argument of his Hon. Friend the Member for Edin burgh, founded upon the importation of cotton, said the United States had not entered into anegotiation with this country, and, therefore, hone had been violated. Ihe United States were free from any engagements, and of course they had, said the Right Hon. Baronet, a right to breed slaves and employ them in the production of cotton. But, with regard to Brazil, the case was different, and he made the distinction to punish them for doing that which they had wide, taken not to do. The Right Honourable l3ar.,net had thus avoided the principle of humanity, and thrown himself solely upon the rights given to this country by the treaties. Brazil and Spain had entered into treaties, by which they bound themselves not to prosecute their trade in slaves. Those treaties were broken, and, there fore, as a punishment, this Gpvernment said they were enti tled to say their slave produce should not be admitted. If this argument, however, applied to one, it *as applicable to all import duties on slave produce. If this p rotection were given to sugar, it ought to be given to coffee. But what did the Goverdreent do last year? Why, they re duced the discriminating duty on Brazilian coffee, the produce of slave-labour.— ( Heat, hear.) 'flits they did last year, but had they done nothing this year in direct violation of their principles ? The Government proposed to reduce the duty on copper ore, and where did copper ore come from ? From Cuba. How was it got from the bowels of the earth ? By the labour of slaves.—( Hear, hear.) Thus by the tariff of last year, and by the measures proposed, the Government directly violated the principles they asked the House to sanction—(llear, hear)—and withheld from the population of this country comforts and indulgences which might otherwise be afforded to them. But he must say that this course was inconsistent from beginning to end. He. nee•l hardly say that he concurred in all that hail fallen from the Right Honourable baronet about the horrors of the slave 'trade. It was a matter upon which the people and Parliament had always been united, and however strongly Honourable Members op posite might declare that the Opposition only agravated the slave-trade by their present course, he would venture to say, that there were those out of doors, who would confirm their opinion. Instead of the evils being increased there was no doubt they had been greatly diminished. In the year 1840, 1841, and 1842. the number of slaves imported into Cuba and the Brazils had very considerably fallen off, and no one denied the assertion of the . Right Honourable Ba ronet that this change had resulted from exer tions made by the Government to suppress the traffic. Now, though he should feel sorry that there was any division of opinion upon this subject, he was very glad to hear the state ment of her Majesty's Ministers, that it was their intention not to relax in their endeavours until the slave trade should be en. tirely dune away with. But whatever the opinion of the Go vernment should be on this question, or whatever their argu ments might be in support of this absurd doctrine of protection, he would ask bow they meant to defend the course they intended to pursue of continuing this protection? Of what value, he would ask, would it be to the country that large estimates for the naval force should be granted, in order to Ite cp up a number of armed vessels on the slave coasts, if those vessels had not the power of the right of seat ch ?—( Hear, hear.) What had been the object of all modern Governments of England on this question ? In the year 1814 it was a great object of Lord Castlereagh, an.l it was with that view that he entered into a treaty with Gene, and a few years afterwards the (hike of Wellington tried to get a consent from France for the abolition of slavery, but he found it to be impossible. Again, in the year IblB, the same experiment was tried with France, but again a refusal was the result. The same experiment was tried in 1823, and again in 1827, and with a like result. Well, then, the present Government came into office, and what did they do? Why, s s far from following un this subject with I erseverance, they recklessly threw it over lmiard altogether.—( Hear, hear.) Then came the letter of Loid Aberdeen, which was now on the table, and that letter recommended the trial of an experiment as a substitute for what previous Governments recomm ended.—( Bear, hear. ) Now, he would ask, what would b e the result, if . 20,000 tons of sugar were taken out of the market ; whether that were the produce of slave labour or ftee labour, it would create a void which should be made up, and until it was, the price of m hat remained would be increased.—( Hear, hear. Therefore it would be quite absurd to make distinctions which admitted of no difference, as in the proposed plan of the Go vernment. 'Therefore, whatever might have been the argu ments of Honourable Members opposite., there was no real ground on which they could support them ; and when those arguments came to be read by the public, and particularly the speech of his Right Honourable Friend the Member for Edinburgh, the opinion of the public would he that the interests of the consumers had been sacri ficed without any consideration for humanity, but that it had been done merely to promote the West India interests, which in the eed it would be found had not been benefitted, but pa ralysed by such legislation, and uron whom real benefit would be conferred if all protection were withdrawn, and a fair and full and free competition given to every branch of industry. Sir C. NAPIER contended that sugar would be shipped from Cuba and Brazil and sent to Florida, reshipped to this • country, and admitted as free-labour sugar. A s to the slave trade, he believed that sending vessels t o the c oast of Afric a was useless, unless they also sent cruisers to the coasts of Brazil and Cuba to stop the slave-traders that escaped from the coast of Africa.—(Hear . ) The Ri g ht Hon.Gentl eman had put words into the mou th of the Noble Lord the 111ere for the City of London , whic h he ( Sir C. Napier) did n o t think the Noble Lord had wed. The Right Hon. Baronet stated that the Noble Lord had said that the slavers only con. tained two feet of stowage r oo m f o r the slaves. This was evidently mistake, for two feet would not be su ffi c i ent to stow . urke y in.-Laughter, and cries of " Di v id e. ") • stow Strangers were then ordered to withdraw,raw, a and the House divided, when there appeared— .. -- . For the amendment Against it Majority against the an:endrnent -94 The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned shortly before One o'clock. MAXIMS AND OPINIONS CT TAE DUKE OF WEL LINGTJN.—A volume has just been published under the above title, which must meet a welcome reception from all the admirers of the Noble Duke. The Editor oh s.ilives—" Almost all preceding works of which the Duke of Wellington Las formed the subject, have been almost exclusively occupied with the military exploits which tendered him so illustriom during the first twenty years of his public life, while his political career has been com paratively neglected. The Editor of these pages has therefore endeavonred to supply materials by which a just estimate may be formed of the Duke of Welling- ton's claims as a Minister and a Statesman. The volume wid be found to contain the Duke's deliberate opinions upon all the great questions which have agitated the public mind since the commencement of the present century. Disratches were sent off Yesterday evening from the Colonial-office, for Sir R. P. Wilson, Governor of Gibraltar. The great number of letters which we have received on the subject of the glas ; duty, and the statements connected with it, show how lively an interest is taken in this part of the Govern ment financial scheme. Above all, Were is a great anxiety to remove the impression that the present duty weighs so heavily on flint-glass, the material of which decanters and wine-glasses are made. Instead of being 200 or 300 per cent. on the value- of the article, it seems not to exceed 10 per cent. The circular which was noticed yesterday was for the purpcse of showing, that on the rich flint-glass articles no re duction'of price weuld be made, and the trade are evincing Muth enierness to cliobuse - the octal of the public in this respect. ,_ I