The Sun. — London, England, 1844-04-23 00:00:00

SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. 2 ROM TETE EVENING PAPERS OF YESTERDAY. GLOBE.—Whether accidentally, or by design, we take not upon ourselves to determine; but certain it is that the proceedings against O'Connell and his co-defendants-have been brought to a dead lock. On Saturday, shortly before the rising of the Court, the Attorney-General, in person, applied that the motion for a new trial, which stood for Monday (to-day), should be postponed! From the state ment of the Attorney-General, it would seem, that the prosecutors have not taken a single etep toward. answering the affidavits on which the counsel for the defendants moved for a new trial. The report of what took place on Saturday sufficiently explains the new dilemma in which the Crown lawyers find themselves involved. The effect of this new impedi ment will be to throw the case over the term. Should the motion for a new trill be refused by the Court, the writ of error cannot reach the House of Lords during the present session. The party which goaded tLe Government into the ill starred prose ,ution, and whose journals, indecently anticipated the verdict, and actually assigned the measure of punishment which the defendants would receive at the hands of the Court, were loud in their complaints whenever an objeetion was taken to any part of the certainly very questionable pro ceedings of the Crown lawyers, that justice was d leyeil by unnecessary impediments. The Irish Tories thus showed their thirst for the conviction, and fs;r a vindictively severe punishment, as the result of that conviction. Easter Term was anticipated with impatience. It would then be known what course would be taken, and when that course would be entered upon. That was to be the termination of all doubt.. Certainty would then be sub stituied for conjecture. These rabid prophets would then see their predictions confirmed by the event. 'he ordinary proceedings were adopted on the part of the defendants. Oa receiving a four days' rule, giving them notice that the Attorney-General, on the part of the Crown, would move the Court for judgment, a motion for a new trial, founded on affidaviteee!mtas made on their behalf. The Court fixed this 'day for - the argument. One class of the affidavits filed in 'support of the motion had reference to the mytterious loss . of a consider . ahle number of names from the jury lists. These affidavits, as the Attorney-General saw, were of a nature which demanded a specific answer : " He con ceived it to be his duty"—so he stated to the Court— " to cause the clerks of the peace to be served with a notice, setting forth the charges in these affidavits of the traversers, in order to ascertain whether they would "swear affidavits in reply:" The clerks of the peace, it would appear, from the Attorney-General's state ment, had taken no official notice of his notice. What private. intimations, explanations, or directions have b6n conveyed on the one hand, which, if known, would account for the expressive silence of these func tionaries, or whether that which appears pregnant with suspicion of design be only the result of one of those accidents, or " mistakes,' which have sig nalised the proceedings against O'Connell from their commencement, perhaps time, the great ex pounder of mysteries, may explain. All we at pre sent know is, that the order of the Court has been discharged generally, and that the notice stands on the _ lists without any day being named for its renewal. This new delay, caused by the prosecu tors, will tend t, strengthen the generally-believed report, that the Gevernment has not the intention of pressing for judgment against the parties. Modera tion may, and will be, condemned by the intempe rate; but it will be 'approved by men of all parties who desire to see the mass of the Irish people conci liated and emancipated from the delusions of repeal. Next to abstinence on the part of the Government 'from interference with an agitation which (as Sir Robert Peel admitted) was "burning itself out'!— but which was revived by the new fuel supplied by the - prosecutions to its flickering flame—we could . wish to see a decided disposition on the part of Mi ftTeters to proceed no further in the course on which they ought never to have entered. The Government has gained nothing, but has lost much, in character and moral influence by the prosecution. Every step onward in the ill-advised course will be fraught .with danger. It. is possible that this new hitch in the proceedings is the result of accident. At ; all events, it must cause considerable delay. By arrest ing the progress of the law it will afford to the Go vernment an opportunity' of more dispassionately re viewing the whole proceedings. If that review in duce a prudent disposition to abandon the idea of pressing for udgment, a plausible ex c use i s supp li e d. Time, in such a state of things, is of great importance. This is obtained lef the accidental or designed impe diment to the argument on the new trial motion, which was to have been entered upon to-day; but is now postponed, sine die. STAN DARD.—From what passed in the Irish Court of Queen's Bench on Saturday, it is certain • that the Attorney-General will have the fraud of the abstracted names of the jurors' list searched to the bot tom. In consequence of the traversers and their solicitors having sworn to theirbelief that the abstrac tion of the names was not accidental, the high-spirited Attorney-General instantly called upon the Clerk of the Peace and the other functionaries who had access to the lists to answer these affi davits before twelve o'clock on Saturday. At three o'clock on Saturday, however, they had neither answered the affidavits nor intimated any purpose of doing so; and there the matter rests. The Attorney-General, unfortunately, has no power over the Clerk of the Peace and the other persons concerned. They are the servants of the repeal corporation, !or of the well-known Mr. Frederick Shaw, the person to whom chiefly the repeal corporation owes its existence. Magrath, the person responsible for the' lists, is, we presume, wholly in Mr. Shaw's hands ; for we remember that in the late debate, in which this question of the lists was raised, Mr. Shaw declared, with some affectation of scorn, that he had not dismissed and would not dismiss' Magrath. Of course he will not dismiss Magrath, even though that person still decline to purge himself of the fraud imputed to him in the affidavits of the traversers and their attor neys. This most extraordinary conduct of public offioers calls for another delay, and this, no doubts is one of • the motives of the recusants. While we are upon this subject, let us follow up a hint of the Morning Herald, by a suggestion that we think might go far to baffle the dilatory sc h eme o f the traversers. They say that they will split their motion, in fact into eight motions, each traverser employing his own counsel. Now it is observed by our Contemporary, that the punishinent, sooner or later, or at all, of. six of the conspirators is of little moment, and we so far agree- with the Herald. The cases of Messrs. Barrett, Dully, Steele, Ray, John O'Connell, and Doctor Gray, may very well stand over for as many terms as shall be found convenient. But the case of Mr. Daniel O'Connell and Mr. Tierney must be disposed of at once. Why not then, as the traversers choose to split their mo tion, take them separately in fact : first deal with Mr. Daniel O'Connell, then with Mr. Tierney, both promptly, and afterwards take the rest at leisure. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. (YESTERDAY.) MANSION-HOUSE. Edward Blthurst, the person who was brought before Sir Peter Laurie, charged with having endeavoured to obtain 2,00f1 Exchequer bills from Mr. Joseph Davis; of the Stock Exchange, was re examined yesterday. Mr. Thrradaile, and other mercantile men of eminence, were present. Mr. Wise attended as solicitor for Mr. Davis. When the prisoner was placed at the bar, - Sir PETER LAURIE asked him whether any friends of his Iv/ r( present? Bathurst—l have friends ; but they will not ackowledge me in this condition. Sir PETER LAURIE—Can you procure any bail ? Bathur4-1 fear nobody will will bail me. Mr. Borradaile said that he attended at the justice room, in consequence of the statement which apr eared in the newspapers, having received a bill of exchange drawn by the prisoner from the Cape of Good Hope, upon Sir Charles Cockerell and Co. The prisoner had no funds whatever at the house, and had no authority to draw upon it, and Sir Charles Cockerel' knew no- - thing at all of him.. The money had been paid at the Cape. Hem? Sir PErrEa Lanny. handed the bill of exchange, w hi c h w.as regularly noted, to the prisoner, and asked ;whether he know anything about it. Bathurst (with a long sigh)—Yes. I do know it, unfortunately.--- , (A laugh.) Sir. PETER LAURIE—Wiw did you represent at the Cape of Good Hope that you had authority to draw upon Sir C. Cockerel! ? Bathurst—lf I had my papers here, I would show you that I had a correspondence up on t h e subject and that I had no improper desig n i n w h at I had do ne.. I am merely unfortunate —certainly not ed.- mina[. Sir PETER LAURIE you showed me your correspond ence with Coutts' Bank , the particulars of which I id not publicly mention - ; but that only went to show they declined to have anything at all to do with you. Bathurst —I assure you I was authorised by Coutts house to do as I was doing, when it was thought necessary to take me into custody. is your property of Sir PETER LAURIE—Where which Yon' have - spoken ? .Bathurst ample means.l • do de clare to you that I bad once My father was in extensive business in India, but lie died early, and I went out to secure his business Witt conduct it, but I became overwhelmed with embar rassments and difficulties, and I arrived in this country strugglin g with misfortune. Sir PETER LAURIE—You now say you are in distress, hrtil still yon went, in the midst of these embarrass-. ments, to take a enunting-hawse, and to instruct a broker to purchase 2,000/. Exchequer bills. Now, how do you I reconcile these inconsistencies? Bathurst—l was,. .1 de- I' clare t authorised by Coutts' to hypothecate these bills; but I admit I have acted very foolishly. Sir PETER Li tram—The fact is, you thought youwere t o o° clever for us, and you were mistaken. I have made inquiries, and find. that syou have respectable con reogious. r find, also, 'that you have • but very lately , • arrived from the Cape of Good Hope, so that you have not had much time to put impositions of this description into practice ; and the picture which the press has drawn and is likely more fully to draw of you will, in all pro bability, stop you in a career which might, if unob structed for some time, end in a trial in the Central Criminal Court. Bathurst—My friends have all turned their backs upon me, and I have a wife and children to support. I have otlended the members of my family. Believe me it was not my intention to defraud anybody. Sir P. LAURIE—Why, you have defrauded a party at the Cape, as this bill of exchange testifies, and you certainly aimed boldly at defrauding Mr. Davis, but he would not be cheated. Bathurst—l did not suppose they observed such strictness in business here.—(Laughter.) Sir P. LAITRIE--I fancied on Saturday that you were insane, but I entertain a different opinion now. How ever, you have got into kind hands. Mr. Davis, who might punish you severely, is disposed to take a very lenient course, and I shall be satisfied to take your own recognizances, to the amount of 1001., to appear here when required. Do not abuse this kindness. Bathurst—l shall not, indeed, Sir. All I wanted was to establish just the form of credit.—(A laugh.)—He then very eagerly entered into his own recognizances and was discharged. A gentleman applied for advice under the following circumstances. He stated that about a month ago he handed a bill of exchange for 100/. to a friend of his to get discounted, that his friend handed it to a person who was a clergyman of the Church of England, and repre sented himself as having c:introl over large suns of money, on account of which representations the bill was entrusted to him, and that the address this money-agent gave proved to be incorrect, as the house was unin habited, and the Reverend Gentleman was not known there. It was presumed as he had broken several ap pointments promising to give the cash for the bill, that he had obtained the money and misappropriated it. A summons was immediately issued. CLERKEN WELL. TAE LATE ABDUCTION CASE.— William Burton New enham was brought up for final examination, charged with the abduction of Frances Louisa Wrotham, daugh ter of a widow lady residing in Gerard-street, Coburg road, Islington. The bench and every other part of the court was crowded with spectators, amongst whom were several county magistrates, and a great number of professional gentlemen, whose interest was probably excited by the contention between the Court of Chancery and this court for the custody of the prisoner. The prisoner was dressed with great neatness, and fashionably. He wore his shirt collar turned over ala Byron. He looked very pale, but seemed in full pos session of that confidence which he has on former occa sions exhibited. Mr. Southee, of Ely-place, was for the prosecution, and Mr. Humphries for the defence. A great portion of the facts of this case have been already before the public. The following is a resume of the supplementary evidence. Mrs. Wortham, mother of the young lady, who looked exceedingly delicate and depressed, was sworn. Some letters were handed in which had been written to her by the trustees of the property (Messrs. Hawkins and Pem berton) to which Miss Wortham had become entitled. These letters she had shown to the prisoner, one of them regarded the making Miss Wortham a ward of Chancery. (A copy of the deed of settlement by which Miss Wortham became entitled to the property—be tween 4001. and 5001. a year—was handed in.) Witness showed that deed to the prisoner, who said he would take it to his attorney, Mr. Hammond, of Furnival's Inn, and he took it thither accordingly. On witnesses return to her house on the day of the abduction, 13th of Octo ber, 1843, she found a letter on the table written with a pencil, of which these were the contents—" My dear Jane, we are gone to Furnival's Inn, yours affectionately —William." The reading of this laconic epistle caused much laughter in Court. 'Witness proceeded to state that he never addressed her in that familiar strain before ; had always called her Mrs. Wortham, and been very respectful to her. Mr. COMBE said there was no necessity for putting that evidence on the face of the depositions. Mr. Southee wished to have it appear there. Mr. COMBE—It is not material. The prisoner is now charged with felony : on former occasions it was mis • demeanour only. Her daughter had on only a light walking dress at the time of their departure, and upon examination she found that . not an article in her wardrobe had been removed. In June, 1842, the period at which her husband died, they lived in Henningford-terrace, Islington. On the Thursday after they removed to Mile-end. Lived a month there, and went to reside in Stamford-street. Remained a few months there, and went to Swinton street, Gray's Inn-road. Mr. COMBE—And the prisoner met you in all these places ? Witness replied in the affirmative. Prisoner—l don't hear the witness (and with great asperity of tone) ; all through this investigation I have noted a great dislike against me. (The prisoner made some observations of a very severe, and, it is unnecessary to add, wholly undeserved character on the conduct of the Worthy Magistrate.) Mr. COMBE remarked that Mrs. Wrotham was in a condition which precluded the possibility of her speak ing in a very loud tone of voice, but, as the prisoner's advocate could hear her, an able professional gentleman, he did not think there was so much need for the pri soner's interference. What the prisoner said regarding his (Mr. Combe's) magisterial conduct, he did not mind. The witnesses must speak as loudly as they could. Prisoner—l want to know how long she stopped at each of these places. It is important. Mr. Humphries—lt does not signify a pinch of snuff. You must allow me, Sir, to put the proper questions at the proper time. The prisoner shook his head is sullen discontent Mrs. Wortham proceeded to state that she removed from Swinton-street to King William• street. Mr. COMBE—Was your daughter with you conti nually ? Witness—No ; she was absent a portion of the tine. When I was living in King William-street, the prisoner was arrested, and he requested us to go and live in the country ; and we accordingly went to Walton in Essex, where he lodged with us. Then we came to the Lower-road, Islington, from which we finally re moved to Gerard-street. Cross-examined--The prisoner had lodged with her during her husband's life-time. Her husband had bor rowed money from him, but repaid it. Prisoner lent witness money to pay rent and taxes. Lived for a a while at Peckham, in a cottage taken by the prisoner, but in her name. Part of the furniture there was his. They sometimes quarrelled, but " made it up again." He gave witness a gold watch, and half-a-dozen of silver spoons, now in her possession. Had purchased some dresses for her at Stephens and Co.'s, and Willis and Co.'s, in Ludgate-hill, for her. She subsequently borrowed money from him-201. or 301.—whitl she still owed him. Prisoner advanced money to pay for her daughter's education. They had the use of his carriage at Walton. In February, 1843, the prisoner paid 5/. 10s. for her daughter's quarter in advance, at the school. Witness has now in her possession some furniture, pictutei, books, ornaments, of prisoner's ; also a pianoforte which he gave to her daughter. Witness always looked on Newenham as a brother. Her husband died in poverty, and the prisoner knew that. Mr. Hammond, a solicitJr, residinr , at 16, Furnival's Inn, deposed that the prisoner came to his office in January, 1843, when he brought with him the copy of the deed of settlement produced in evidence. He said he came cn behalf of a poor widow to get profeSsional advice. Had previously known the prisoner profession ally. The prisoner engaged him for Mrs. Wortham, and dictated to him an abstract of the deed by which Miss Wortham became possessed of the property. Witness never heard from the prisoner, directly or indirectly, that he had any intention of connecting himself with Miss Wortham. The prisoner told him'that Mrs. Wor tham wished him to file a bill in Chancery. A bill as subsequently filed. Was Mrs. Wortham's attorney in the matter, and not the prisoner's, and was quite wilting to produce all the papers with which he had been en trusted. Mr. George Dunn, a solicitor's clerk, residing- in Vine-street, Regent-street—Had known the prisoner for 14 years. In the beginning of last year he called upon witness, and said he was about being appointed guardian to an infant girl, between 12 and 13 yeari of age. He did not mention her name. He said she *as entitled to considerable property. At a subsequent period, in October last, the prisoner called upon him, and said he had returned from Gretna on the preced ing Friday. He said he was married, and that he had carried, or went off with (witness could not remember which) a girl who had some money, and he was anxious to ascertain whether or not she was a ward of Chancery. 'Witness said,. " Surely it is not that little girl you were telling me about?" He replied that it was. It being now nearly six o'clock, the further hearing of the case was postponed until to-morrow (this day). The above witnesses had their depositions read over to them, and were bound over in 401. each to prosecute at the ensuing sessions of the Old Bailey. THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 23, 1644, IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, April 22. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woo' ck at Five o'Clock. DISSENTERS' CHAPELS BILL. Lord DACE% presented seven petitions in favour of the Dissenters' Chapels Bill, but the designations of the petitioners were not heard in the gallery. The Duke of WELLINGTON presented a peti tion to the same effect from a place in Lancashire. Lord BROUGHAM presented a similar petition from a congregation in Belfast. MESSAGE FROM. THE COMNIONS. Mr. GREENE and others from the Commons brought up the Hartlepool Harbour and Dock Bill, the Yar mouth and Norwich Railway Act Amend:nent Bill, the North British Railway Bill, the Brandon and Nor wich, and other Bills. PRESBYTERIAN MARRIAGES. Lord BROUGHAM presented a great number of petitions from congregations of Presbyterians in Donegal, Trim, Down, and other parts of the north of Ireland, in favour of Presbyterian marriages. The Noble and Learned Lord presented also a petition from the National Association for the Political and Social Improvement of the People, complaining that they had not been able to obtain a certificate, which would exempt them from paying taxes for their pre mises ; also a petition from the Mayor and Corpora tion of Nottingham (as we understood), praying for the alteration and amendment of the Bankruptcy laws. Lord NORMANBY presented a petition from the Dissenting congregation of a place in the north of Ireland, expressing surprise and alarm at the nature and probable results of the Bill brought in by the Noble Lord on the Woolsack, entitled the Dissenters' Chapels Bill, and praying their Lordships not to allow it to pass. The Noble Lord presented another petition from the ministers and presbytery of a con gregation in Yorkshire, expressive of their approba tion of the provisions of the Bill, and hoping that it might be allowed to pass into a law (Laughter.) Lord CAMPBELL presented several petitions against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill. After a few words from Lord Brougham, the Lord Chancellor, and Lord Cottenham, the Debtors and Creditors' Bill, which stood for a second reading, was postponed till Monday next. Lord NORMANBY presented a petition from the members of a Presbyterian congregation in the north of Ireland, praying for an alteration in the existing marriage laws. THAMES POLICE. Yesterday Thomas Anson, a man about twenty-five years of age, who appeared to be in much pain from a severe wound in the hand, was brought before Mr. Broderip on a charge or stealing a portable writing desk, containing ten sovereigns in gold, 21. in silver, nine silver spoons, and various other articles, the moneys and property of Daniel M'Beath, the landlord of the Ro bart's Arms, Devonport-street, Commercial-road. The prisoner had lived in Mr. Beath's service as pot man for nine months, and during that time property to a considerable amount had been stolen from the house. On e 28th ult., the prosecutor went to Gravesend, and on the evening of the same day Mrs . M‘Be a th di rected the prisoner to go up stairs and fetch his m as t er ' s desk from the bed-room, where it was de posited. H e brought handed it to his and mistress he shook it, and said he could hsheaakreherandlecskaeid theret chain, an d t h en gave it anot h er Mrs. M'Beath said wastii plenty of money in it too. , and t e h r a e t i was fas both plate in the desk, contained all moneyshe andan d inhree i I ,v n i la d incl if h de she pn es. xi deposited was d to tahy o, her husband were possessed lose it, they would be ruined. whencon tents r;fmr.ai‘,intel3deainth'threetbuarre-epdarhleo.i:t desk and its desk in his bed-room again. On the Ist of two sovereigns in it, and on the f e ol , l e ow ef in a g d afternoon entered his bed-room for the put ) to his board, when he missed his desk. Ile immediately called in Murray, police-constable No. g aoth 6B, IC, whos suspicions at once fell upon the prisoner, whom he knew to keep very bad'company. No , one had access to the bed-room but the prisoner and the family, and on the night previously to the prosecutor missing his desk the d eAn i f ri lt :l r r li no h o e prisoner absented himself. He was apprehended, and detained for a fortnight, when the magistrate, for want of evidence, was obliged to discharge him.. Orr Satur day morning last, Murray was -passim along, a no torious place, called-Vinegar-lane, St.:Gorge's-in-the- East, when he met the prisoner with his right hand .I dreadfully shattered and bleeding. The palm of the hand was carried away, the thumb broken, and the wrist severely injured. Murray asked the prisoner what he had been doing ? and he said he had just been firing off a pistol, which he had loaded to the muzzle with powder and shot, and, owing to the powerful na ture of the charge, the barrel of the pistol was dislodged from the stock, but did not burst, and the stock itself was broken to pieces. The prisoner also stated that he had another pistol loaded in a similar manner, and plenty of powder and shot. Murray immediately con veyed the prisoner to the London Hospital, and, in his way there, asked him what he had purchased the pistols for ? The prisoner first said he intended to shoot birds, and afterwards declared he intended to shoot the woman who had brought him to ruin. After the prisoner's hand was dressed, and while he was labouring under great pain, Murray was about to leave him, when the prisoner called him back, and said he would tell him all about the robbery. The prisoner then confessed that he had stolen the desk, and after taking out the money and plate, had thrown the desk into a water-butt. Murray asked him if he meant the water-butt of the house, No. 41, Vinegar-lane, where he had been lodging with some loose women. The prisoner replied, "No, you will find the desk in my master's water-butt. I com• mitted the robbery, and have spent all the cash on the - woman." On searching the water-butt the desk was found there, as the prisoner had described, with two pieces of iron in it. to keep it down. There was nothing else in it. except a butter knife. Mr. M'Beath identified the desk as his property, and said he had been a great loser since the prisoner had been in his service. Mr. Buotwalp—lt is my duty to commit you for trial fur this felony.—Committed. THE NEW FACTORIES BILL. Last night the new Factories Bill was read a second time. This is one of the stages of the affair which was to have been performed in dumb show, in order that nothing might detract from the solemnity of the final struggle. In consi deration of the "free and gentle passage of arms" arranged for the 3d of May, we were warranted to have not a single jar, or squabble, or skirmish in the interim. The two hosts were to pile their arms, and repose on the plain, while the leaders were to stand surveying one another, with that deep and silent reverence which brave must ever feel for brave. But, alas, for the uncertainty of all human expectations ! One army, at least, has all but disbanded, as if the fighting was all over, and the armistice was a peace or something worse. But, instead of one war, we have a dozen. The battle array is broken up into guerilla bands. The head and centre are gone. The spirit has evaporated. In spite of the contract between the two belligerent chiefs, the second read ing has been almost drowned in the clash of mutinous arms, the, charges, and threats, and recriminations of combatants. In the first place one of the chiefs himself, viz., the Home Secretary, rather spoilt the repose and mutual confidence which there was to have been, by letting out that he was not aware of anv arrangement except such as Lord Ashley had publicly, singly, and spontaneously pro claimed. Then Mr. Ward took care the House should not forget his motion against all interference with labour what ever. Then, Mr. Roeuck announced his intuition of pressing his motion for an instruction to the Committee, notwithstand ing the strong opinions expressed as to the disorderliness of that proceeding. He might be unwise for doing so, but he had a right to do so, and was quite satisfied with the course he had chosen. On this, Mr. buncombe, considering him self as much at libeaty as anybody else, informed the House that he meant to move for a Select Committee up stairs. Such a measure certainly was not calculated to bring the question to an early and decisive settlement ; but under pre sent circumstances there was no hope of this, and, as we cer tainly were booked for a protracted deliberation, we might as well have a thorough one, and give the operatives an op portunity of conferring with their legislators. At this crisis, Mr. Stuart Wortley judiciously interposed to add the horrors of anticipation to present discomfte. It struck his far seeing mind that it would be exceedingly inconvenient to have all these motions discussed at once, and he thought it would be as well if the Speaker settled their precedence. The Speaker assigned the palm of priority to Mr. Duncombe's mo tion, after which he said any Hon. Member might move a reso lution, so long as it was to the purpose. On this cruel hint Mr. Stansfield spoke, and announced several alterations and amendments in the Bill. It was now the order of the day for every one to do what was right in his own eyes; sc. Mr. Ross gladly improved the occasion to announce an altera tion and amendment, not prospectively, in the Bill, but already taken place in his own mind. Starvation, not over working, is the malady of Ireland; and Mr. Ross's Irish con stituents, whom he had consulted, had given bins quite a new view of the case. So, without further ado, he marched off to the lines of the enemy. That the present leader of this cause may achieve some great and sudden mastery over his present difficulties—that he may impress a noble conclusion upon the minds of his hearers, as deeply as his opening speech impressed the gloomy premises of his argument; is just possible. It is never known what there is in man till the hour of trial. Till then no one knows either what he can do or what he cannot do. We know not which of these two discoveries it is reserved for Lord Ashley to make. For the present the dry rot has seized his cause; not the cause of the factory women and young persons, which is too vital for us to doubt its imperishableness—but the cause of Lord Ashley. He has tied his own hands without tying any other person's ; and now discovers that it is easier to answer for him self than for others. Mr. Roebuck had already done his duty to the powers that be in the above melee; and if his forward affections had been content with the modest rule, nulla dies sine lined, he might have retired for the evening. But he was anxious to be more than ordinarily servicearde. Without any notice, therefore, without giving the least ground, of expectation, he suddenly put Mr. Ferrand on his defence'for having " charged a Minister of the Crown with the use of his power as a Minister to induce an officer employed by the Government—viz., an Assistant Poor-law Commissioner-to make a false report to this House, for the purpose of crushing a Member of this House." The attack once begun, Mr. Ferrand was forthwith assailed on all sides for what he had said, for what he had not said, for what others had said, and for what nobody had said. Sir James Graham is singularly favoured in possessing so warm an advocate in the very ranks of his political foes. We know not which of his own party feels for him so keenly, so thoroughly understands his wishes, and so exactly antici pates his intentions, as the Hon. Member for Bath. Scarcely for any one of his own party, scarcely for himself, could Mr. Roebuck have been so touched, so emphatic as he was for the Home Secretary. The subject, with which our readers are already familiar, is one the rights of which, it is evident, never can and never will be dragged from official obscurity. A false report, containing false charges, against an opponent of the Government by an officer of that Government—the report unexpectedly and trium phantly used by a Minister of the Crown—inquiry long re fused, and only by a necessity granted—that officer long and almost indecently shielded—a fresh inquiry, in the shape of returns, with difficulty obtained—the charge proved false— the officer dismissed in time to prevent a thorough investi gation—all this may not carry conviction of downright con spiracy to all minds, but may very well leave in the most candid an impression of some culpable, though indefinable, management. That Mr. Ferrand, who, through believing what he has publicly stated—through suspicion of a sort of conspiracy, and also by dint of the greatest determination, succeeded in clearing himself from a false charge, should still believe what he then believed, is of course most natural, if not inevitable. The correctness of that belief is another question ; as also is the proof of it to the world. Mr. Hoe buck, however, in his blind zeal for the Home Secretary, cannot see how a man may thoroughly believe what he has not certain and undeniable proofs for. " If," said he, "it should turn out that the charge is false, I want to know the value of the authority of that gentleman who should thus employ his powers as a Member of Parliament in propagat ing such a falsehood." This was rather strong language, and, as it was humanly certain to provoke a retaliation, might, in prudence only, have called for a measure of that official rebuke, which the retaliation, when it came, did not escape. By the help of Mr. Hume and Mr. H 1 G. Ward a speedy transition was made to Mr. Ferrand's account of what he witnessed when Mr. Hogg " haggled and higglo" at his explanations about the return of the Nottingham Elec tion Committee. We are far from distressed to find from Mr. Hogg's own words that an article on Mr. Ferrand's stMe ment, last Thursday week, has given it prominence in that gentleman's eyes. As Mr. Hogg's ann., as well as Mr. Mott's, is to be brought before the House more deliberately this evening, little need now be said of the former. An elec tion committee, a troublesome member whom it would be convenient to unseat, a chairman with the name of a lawyer and the offhand decisions of a partisan, the report and its long explanations received with surprise by the chairman's own side of the House, and singly cheered by the hostile Minister,—these, and other more unmentionable circum stances, will have their weight so long as man is man, and not a mere abstraction of the law of evidence. Of course, they can be shown to go for nothing, to have no kind of relation to one another, to be barren, insulated facts. Of course, Mr. Hogg can defend himself. The misfortune is that his view of the case, is too legal. his defence is too Parliamentary. It proyes too much. It covers with its ample protection the returns of all the election committees that ever sat in the chambers of St. Stephen's. An unjust return, he says, aided by Ministerial influence, is the grossest and vilest perjury. The least suspicion of it should and will banish the miserable wretch from the respect and society of the House of Com mons ! Here I am, respected and conversed with, and here I sliall remain to be, for all you can ever prove against me. If we could forget a thousand election committeess the de fence would be valid.; but who can forget the almost uniform certainty with which their returns have been predicted from the prevailing opinions and interests of their members ? So to-night is to be a night of questions and answers; of charges and explanations. Impertinencies are to be the etiquette of the evening. Mr. Ferrand is to be the general butt ; with, however, the liberty of rejoinder, and answering questions with other questions still more difficult, if he can think of any. This is the time for some curions person to ask Mr. Hogg whether he did not (as was stated in the papers), some time about the above-mentioned return of the Nottingham Election Committee, apply for a Certain important office ? If the report was without foundation, Mr. Hogg will doubt less be obliged to anybody for such an opportunity of con tradicting it.— Times. Contous EXPERIMENT.—The Courrier Francais states, that " an experiment calculated to excite the greatest interest was made in Paris, in that part of the river opposite to the Quai d'Orsai. Towards five o'clock in the evening of Wednesday last, Dr. Payerne placed in an enormous metal bell, weighing several hundred kilogrammes, descended un. der this heavy apparatus to the bottom of the river. The Doctor remained more than half an hour under water. He had under his bell a chemical apparatus, with the assistance of which ho absorbed the carbonic acid gas, and produced oxygen and azote to render the air fit for respiration. The experiment succeeded completely, and we are assured that with this bell, of a new construction, a person may remain under water for an indefinite period at a depth of 50 yards. An instrument of a similar construction, placed in the hands of our pearl and coral fishers, would be of vast importance." BRIDGEWATER CABAL.—We last week stated that preparations were making for carrying on an extensive trade in salt between the mines, atNorthwich, in Cheshire, and the port of Hull, through the medium of the Manchester and Leeds, the Leeds and Selby, and the Selby and Hull rail ways. This communication, it is said, is to be completed by converting the I7uke of Bridgewater's canal, which was con structed about the year 1760, under the direction of Mr. Grindley, the engineer, into a line of railway from the telt mines to Manchester, to join the railways passing eastwards and communicatingwith the German Ocean.— L eeds Mercury. Tn WEATIIER.—For some days past we have had glorious spring weather. Vegetation has made a rapid ad vance. The cherry, pear, and plum trees are literally' perfectioncft ah () e v e covered r r a e b d lrli Itvihikbacyn productions blossoms; tohf e colour auvroe t f h at e iehde wall-flowers a akl oe - pl fl avu o e nr w u- egd this r ae s do a efc r al e bi ma are o u aoe n tn n l e f ; o a gra l lrnmeeddaa greater many a year. Masoxs.—Bishop Philpotts hath refused to allow the Freemasons to go .m_procession and hare a masonic ser- Tice la Airminster church.— 'Feuer?' Times. GWALIOR. The Marquis of NORMANBY said that, on Fri day evening last, he had given notice of his intention to put, on this evening, a question to his Noble Friend, the President of the Board of Control (the Earl of Ripon), respecting the omission of papers that had been moved for on the subject of the recent occurrences at Gwalior. But he had commu nicated with his Noble Friend this morning, who informed him that he could not come down to the House this evening, and, of course, he (Lord Nor manby) would not carry out his notice. Nor, in deed, was it necessary that he should, as his Noble Friend had told him that the paper omitted from the returns—which was the order of the Governor-General of the 14th of August, relating to the formation of the army of the Jumna—should be supplied; and as to the arrangement with the Maha raja, there was no writing on the subject in the hands of the Government at home, nor was there, probably, any writing on the subject, as the arrangement was only a modification of that which had been entered into in 1820. For these reasons it would not be necessary to put the question, but there was an other question connected with these subjects, which he wished to put, but he would reserve his notice until his Noble Friend was in the House. The Duke of BUCCLEUCH then laid on the table the paper alluded to. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented pe titions against the Dissenters' Chapels' Bill. The Earl of ZETLAND presented some petitions in favour of the Bill ; also a petition from schoolmas ters in the Highlands (as we understood) praying for assistance. The Birmingham Canal Bill, and some other pr vate Bills, were read a third time and passed. Their Lordships then adjourned HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 22. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. NEW MEMBER. Mr. BRISCO took the oaths and his seat for the borough of Hastings. The Yarmouth and Norwich Railway Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. DENNISTOUN presented a petition from Glasgow, one from the Lord Provost and Magistrates in attendance, for an alteration of the provisions of the Prisons' Bill—from the licensed pawnbrokers against the Charitable Pawn Societies Bill; and from the merchants and shipowners with upwards of 850 signatures for a reduction of the duties on sugar and tea. Mr. GREENE brought up the report of the Com mittee upon the Thetford Inclosure and Drainage Bill. NORTHERN BRITISH RAILWAY BILL. On the Order of the Day foi• the third reading of the Northern British Railway Bill being put, Colonel WYNDHAM said he was opposed to the system of free-trade in railways, which tended to trench upon the rights of either the poor man or the rich. He should, consequently, move that the Bill be read a third time that day six months. Mr. P. BORTIIWICK agreed with his Hon. and Gallant Friend that this Bill would be a direct inter ference with the rights of property, and he should consequently support the amendment. Mr. MACAULAY said, the opinion of the Com mittee had, after mature .consideration, been pro nounced in favour of this line of railway. He denied the statements of the Honourable and Gallant Gentleman opposite, that this Bill would inter fere unduly with the rights of private property. The very marshes which Mr. Millar himself pos sessed gave forth a stench which was intolerable.— ) He did not think that which had heard and ould be rescinded by a examined e o a an r l 1 , ot r ea d e Committee, i l d a e u n g c h e . , sII tribunal which had no opportunity of hearing any evidence. Mr. LOCKHART said that he was not very well acquainted with the locality, but he had been there more than once, and he had never perceived any noxious effluvia from the marshes, nor had he ever before heard that there was any. The House then divided, when the numbers were— For the third reading ..... ... 102 Against it. Majority The Bill was then read a third time and passed. The Eastern Counties (Brandon and Peterborough Extension Railway) Bill was read a third time and passed. SUGAR DUTIES. Mr. THORNELY presented a petition from Liverpool signed by 30,000 persons, complaining of the excessive differential duties on sugar. The peti tioners stated that the produce of sugar from our colonial possessions had been for some time diminish ing, and that at the same time the price of foreign sugar had been constantly declining. During the last year 114 British vessels had sailed from Rio Janeiro, and out of this number only twenty-one had sailed for England, all the rest being bound to Ham burgh. The petitioners therefore confidentially alleged that the differential duties on sugar had been, and were, exceedingly injurious in their operation, and they prayed that they might be abolished altogether. MASTERS AND SERVANTS BILL. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented n petition against the Masters and Servants Bill. The Hon. Member also presented a petition from the manufacturing dis tricts in favour of the ten hours' clause of the Fac tories Bill ; also a petition from Sunderland praying for the liberation of Cooper, and in favour of the Charter. Mr. COLLETT presented a petition from the bo rough of Athlone, praying for a Bill to legalise mixed marriages in Ireland. Colonel VERNON presented four petitions with the same prayer. Dr. BOWRING presented a petition from Bolton against the Masters and Servants Bill. Sir H. DOUGLAS presented a petition from the merchants and shipowners of Liverpool, praying for a reduction on the duties on tea. --------- Mr. R. YORKE presented a petition from York, against the Masters and Servants Bill. NOTICES OF MOTION. Dr. BOWRING gave notice that, to-morrow, he would inquire of the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Gladstone) whether he had any official notice •f a treaty signed between the United States of America and the States that comprise the German and Prussian Union, by which goods were to be reciprocally intro duced into each country at duties much lower than those levied upon articles of the same kind introduced into either country from Great Britain ? Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved that the petition of Charles Price and William White Thompson, com plaining of the illegal conduct of certain magistrates of Warwick, when summoned before them for the non-payment of church-rates on the 16th inst., be printed with the Votes.—Agreed to. NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT. Mr. HUME begged to ask the Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and Forests whether he had any objection to lay on the table of the House a copy of any correspondence that had taken place between the Commissioners of Woods and Forests and Mr. Barry, the architect of the new Houses of Parlia- Inent, relative to the sum which had been fixed upon as that to be paid to Mr. Barry for the building of the Houses. The Earl of LINCOLN would have no hesitation in granting the correspondence if any such existed, but he was not aware that there was any such cor respondence. Mr. WILLIAMS Tucked for an account of the public income and expenditure of the United Jiang dom, in the years ending the sth day of January 1842, 1843, an 11844, distinguishing the actual pay ment for the expenses incurred in the collection and management of the revenue; for the charges of the public debt (the terminable annuities being also valued by estimate) ; for the expenses of the Civil Government; the allowances to the Royal Family, and to his Majesty the King of the Belgians ; the establishment of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland ; the expenses of the two Houses of Parliament, and the Civil departments : the other pensions on the Conso lidated Fund, on thegross revenue, and the Civil List ; also, the payments for the administration of justice, diplomatic expenses, and on account of the sums voted for the army, navy, ordnance, and miscellaneous services; also public works, bounties, Post-office, the quarantine and warehousing establishments, and all other payments, not coming under any of the fore going heads; with an. appendix, showing the several items composing each }mad of the account (in con tinuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 494, of session 1143).—Agreed to. MEDICAL CHARITIES (IRELAND). Mr. F. FRENCH rose to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, if it were the inten tion of her Majesty's Government to introduce any Bill into Parliament, during the present session, for better regulating and rendering more efficient the Medical Charities of Ireland ; and, if so, whether it was intended that such Bill should contain provisions similar to those contained in the Bill for the better regulation of Medical Charities in Ire land, introduced by her Majesty's late Go vernment in 1837 ; or provisions similar to those contained in the Bill for the like purpose introdueed by the Noble Lord the present Chief Secretary for Ireland in 1842 ; or any or all of the provisions re commended by the Select Committee appointed last session to inquire into and report upon the Medical Charities in Ireland ? Lord ELIOT had nothing to add to the statement which he had already made upon the subject, which was, that it was not the intention of her Majesty's Government to introduce any measure for the regu lation of the Medical Charities in Ireland during the present session. TAXING-OFFICERS IN BANKRUPTCY. Mr. SCOTT wished to know from the Right Honourable Gentleman, the Secretary of State for the Home Department, if it was the intention of the Government to introduce any measure for the appointment of a taxing-officer in Bankruptcy. In the Bankruptcy Bill, which had passed two years ago, there had originally been a clause appointing a taxing-officer in Bankruptcy; how the clause had dis appeared he knew not, but he wished to know if it was now intended to appoint a taxing-officer. Sir J. GRAHAM had not received the notice which the Hon. Gentleman had been kind enough to give him of his intention to put the question until after he had entered the House. If the Hon. Gentleman would be kind enough to put his question to-morrow, he would make the necessary inquiries in the meantime, and be prepared to give him an answer. SPAIN—AFFAIR OF COLONEL BONET. Mr. BORTHWICIC wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman a question relating to certain occurrences reported to have recently taken place at Alicant, in Spain. It was re ported in the newspapers that Colonel Ponta leon Bonet, who had been at the head of the late movement at Alicant, and who had conducted himself with great humanity towards the prisoners who had fallen into his hands, had, after a compromise entered into by the person commanding the fort of Alicant with the besiegers, made application to the com mander of a British ship at Alicant to receive him on board, representing that unless he was taken on board the ship it was impossible that his life could be spared, and reminding the officer in command, in co firmation of this inference, of the treatment which other persons in his position had experienced at the hands of Roncali when they had fallen into his power. It appeared—at least it was so represented—that at the same time a major who had acted under his com mand made a similar application, under precisely the same circumstances, to the captain of a French vessel lying in the same port; that the major was successful, and that in consequence he was at that moment alive. On the other hand it appeared that Colonel Bonet was refused to be taken on board of the British ship ; that he then returned to the shore, and in making a desperate effort to regain the mountain, was taken, and by the orders of Roncali, was shot instantly, and without trial. The question which he bad to put to the Right Hon. Gen tleman was whether, according to the representations in the newspapers, express and direct orders had been given to the officer commanding this and other ships, to refuse, under these extreme circumstances, to take on board Spanish subjects ; whether, in the absence of these instructions, the officer, acting on his own responsibility, had refused to take Colonel Bonet on board ; or whether the statement was altogether without foundation, or, as he was informed, exceed ingly exaggerated. Sir R. PEEL said, in answer to the question put to him by the Hon. Gentleman, he had to state that no specific instructions had been given by her Ma jesty's Government, or by any authority acting under their control, with respect to applications of this nature. The general purport of the in structions given to the commanders of Bri tish ships of war during these unfortunate civil contentions in Spain had been to afford protection to the lives and property of British sub jects, but to observe, as far as possible, strict neu trality between the contending parties. In this case no special instructions had been given. It was quite clear that if British ships of war were, as a matter of course, to receive those who had been engaged in insurrection against the constituted authorities, and that were known, it would be a great premium upon insurrection ; because they might try the experiment with perfect assurance of being received by a British ship of war. No express instructions, therefore, were given with respect to the reception of refugees under such circumstances. The general instructions were the same now as he believed they had always been, to maintain, as far as possible, strict neutrality ; and it was left to the dis cretion of individual officers to deal with any parti cular case. And with respect to the case of Colonel Bonet, as reported in the newspapers, if he (Sir Robert Peel) were to judge from the only report which was in the possession of her Majesty's Go vernment, received from Captain Drummond himself, he should say that the circumstances stated in the newspapers could not have been true. He held in his hand the report of Captain Drummond. It made no mention of an♦ application addressed to him by Colonel Bonet. It introduced the name of Colonel Bonet; but he would say that this report of Captain Drummond was inconsistent with the accounts in the newspapers. At the same time it was stated that the Scout ship, commanded by Capt. Drummond, in con sequence ofa note received from the Spanish government of their intention to blockade the town of Alicant, had arrived off Alicant, and that several British sub jects had been taken on board of the vessel, and re ceived protection. The report also stated, that many applications had been made by Sp an i s h subjects to be received on board, which were refused. That was the whole of the information which her Majesty's Government had received on this subject. As he had said before, no direct information had been - received from Captain Drummond as to whether any application had been made to him. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that as no specific instructions had been sent out, of course the conduct of the officer in command of the vessel to which re- ference had been made was justifiable. He (Lord John Russell) would, however, wish to ask the Right IDIn. Gentleman whether he had any objection to desire Captain Drummond to furnish a statement of the transaction as far as regarded Colonel Bonet ? Sir ROBERT PEEL—I should think it a matter of course that such a statement will be furnished to the Lords of the Admiralty. On a question of this sort I will take the opportunity of expressing my abhorrence and disgust at the sanguinary proceedings which have occurred on the part of the constituted authorities of Spain. Their wholesale massacres without the regular forms of trial, are doing more to injure the character of Spain in the estimation of the civilised world than any other course which the Government of that country could pursue. Ido believe that barbarous nations would observe greater humanity in their con test than is observed by both parties in Spain. FACTORIES BILL (No. 2). On the motion for the Order of the Day being read for the second reading of the Factories Bill (No. 2), Mr. ROEBUCK said he understood from the Speaker, that the proposition which he (Mr. Roebuck) had made on Friday last could not be entertained by that House. He was perfectly willing to bow to that opinion, as he thought he should be able to bring the proposition forward in another way. He should put his proposition in the form of a resolution, and move it on Friday, in going into Committee on the Fac tories Bill. Mr. WARD presented a petition from Huddersfield against the Bill. Captain GORDON presented a petition from Aber deen, against restrictions upon the hours of labour. Mr. GODSON presented a similar petition from eighty firms in Staffordshire. Mr. S. WORTLEY presented a petition from a place in Yorkshire, in favour of a Ten Hours' Bill. Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition from Ireland, praying that the House would pass a Bill to employ the petitioners ten or twelve hours a day, at such wages as the House in its wisdom might think fit.—(Lughter.) Mr. FERRAND presented several petitions in favour of a Ten Hours' Bill, FACTORIES BILL. On the motion of Sir J. GRAHAM the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Factories Bill was read. Mr. HUME wished to know whether any arrange ment had been come to as to when the discussion on this Bill was to take place ? Sir JAMES GRAHAM said no arrangement whatever had been made beyond what the Hon. Member must be aware was stated by the Noble Lord (Ashley) would be the course to he adopted. There was only one clause of the Bill which at all interfered with the period of labour ; and it would be for the Hon. Member for Montrose to consider whether it would be more expedient to take the discussion on it on going into Committee, or to raise it now. But he (Sir J. Graham) should hope that as this measure had been before the House some time, not only in this session but in former ones, and that division after division had been taken upon it—he should hope that on the whole, it would not be opposed now, but that the discussion would be taken on going into Committee, either on the amendment of the Noble Lord the Member for Dorsetshire, or the resolution of the lion. Member for Bath. He would give notice that, on Friday next, he would take the order for going into Committee as the first order of the day.—(Hear.) Mr. HUME said it would be convenient to the House if there was only one discussion, and he would not throw any obstacle in the way of the second reading, on the understanding that the notice just given by the Right Hon. Gentleman would be ad hered to. Mr. WARD apprehended that another discussion would take place on the motion of which he had given notice, that the clause should be omitted altogether. Lord J. RUSSELL said that the proposal of the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath to take the dis cussion on a resolution of the whole House, before going into Committee, was a proper and convenient course, as it would give more solemnity to the matter in debate to take the question before the House went into Committee, and while the Speaker was in the chair. lie understood the Right Hon. Baronet op posite to say that this Bill was in conformity with the Bills introduced on the same subject in former years. By the clauses in the Bill of last year female labour was restricted up to the age of ,twenty-one, but by the Bill now introduced there was an en tirely new proposal. Sir J. GRAHAM said he had alluded to the pre ceding Acts on this subject, but the Noble Lord WAS mistaken in supposing he alluded to that which the Noble Lord had referred to, namely, the restriction of female labour. Mr. BERNAL said it appeared to him that there was no difference, except in words, between moving a negative resolution, and moving an instruction to the Committee. He believed that the discussion wished for could not be taken on the motion of the lion. and Learned Member for Bath. He believed the intention of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was to move a general, solemn resolution that such a thing should not be done. He never recollected that any step on any occa sion intervened between going into Committee, unless it was a resolution in the shape of an instruction to the Committee. He thought it better to state this now as it would prevent any supposition that they wished to obstruct the intentions of his Hon. Friend. Mr. ROEBUCK thought it was competent for him to make his motion, either on the moti on f or reading the Order of the Day, or for the Speaker leaving the chair, and that he could not be prevented from doing so. lie might be unwise in doing so, but that he had a right to move anything restricting the Factories Bill on the motion for the Speaker leaving the Chair, was as well settled as anything possibly could be. If he chose he might even go further, but he was satisfied with the mode lie had taken to bring the subject under the consideration of the House, the only effect of which would be that the consideration of the subject in Committee would be put off one day. Mr. DUNCOMBE said it was his intention to move for a Select Committee up stairs, but he be lieved when the Order of the Day for the House re solving itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Factories Bill was put, then must be the proper time for him to move that it be referred to a Committee up stairs. The Committee would be confined to the question of wages, because (there was no use in the House deceiving itself on the subject) there was a strong impression amongst the operatives that the restriction of labour to ten hours would not reduce wages. He knew that they said, and that others in their behalf also said, that they pre ferred taking their chance of a sreduction of wages; but then they always said that a reduction of wages would not be the consequence.—(Hear, hear.) The opposition of the Government to the Noble Lord's proposition was founded upon the argument that it would be injurious to the working classes, in consequence of the reduction of wages that would ne cessarily ensue from it. On a consultation with the Short. time Committee lately, he (Mr. Duncombe) told them that he believed that a different impres sion from that which they entertained prevailed in the House of Commons. They complained of the ignorance of the House of Commons on this ques tion, and, as practical men , h e (M r . D uncom b e ) pro posed to them to go to a Committee of the House of Commons, and explain their grievances on the mat ter there, and, with regard to this particular point, meet the argument of the master manufacturers, that this limitation would reduce the amount of wages. They complained, and he thought justly, that the House attended more to the statements of mas ters and millowners, than to the feelings and representations of the operatives. He (Mr. Dun combe) believed it would be satisfactory t o a grea t portion of the working classes, and he thought it was also due to the public, that some further investigation should take place on this subject. He did not believe that which he was told would be the case if this Bill were referred to a Committee up stairs, that it would be hung up for the remainder of the session. He thought it better that it should be hung up for the remainder of the present session than that it should be passed in the shape to which Minis ters had at present reduced it. That it would pass in that shape there could not be the slightest doubt. It was a perfect delusion to suppose that the mo tion of the Noble Member for Dorsetshire could by any possibility be carried, or that it would be acceded to by the House. The only chance the Noble Lord had of carrying his point was by fighting step by step in every stage in the progress of the Bill through the House for the principle which the House had already agreed to. The Noble Lord gave up an opportunity of introducing a clause in Committee, and he had given notice of his proposition for the third reading. The Noble Lord might have introduced the clause in Committee, and he might also have introduced it on the report, but he let those opportunities go by, and deferred it to the time when the Speaker was going to put the question from the chair, that the Bill do pass. Then it was that the Noble Lord's clause was to be brought up, and the Right Hon. Baronet and the Government would then properly say to the Noble Lord and to the House, that the clause which he proposed mili tated so against the whole principle of the Bill, and the provisions which had been already agreed to, that it would be totally impossible for the House now to accede to it. There would be perfect good sense in that. It was perfectly proper on the part of the Go vernment so to do if they allowed, as the Noble Lord was about to do, the Bill to slip through the House until it was about being passed. Then the Noble Lord would, as it were, take a flying shot at the Bill. But, as it was to pass, and when he went to discharge his second barrel at it, he would find that the game was gone.— (Hear, hear, and laughter.) That would be the result of all the discussion that had taken place, and of the decision which the House had come to, that women and children should not work for more than ten hours.—(Hear, hear.) The operatives thought that the Noble Lord (Ashley) and the House had been trifling with their interests— that the whole thing was a delusion from beginning to end. The only course now was for the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir J. Graham) to agree to a Committee. Let the masters and the men meet before an impartial Committee. and let the public be thus satisfied who was in the right, anci who in the wrong. Only by these means could they dis abuse the public mind of the impression which prevailed that they were totally ignorant of the interests of'those for whom they were legislating. Lord ASHLEY said it had not been his intention to make a single remark, but the observations of the Hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Duncombe) in duced him to read to the House three lines of a letter received by him (Lord Ashley) that morning. The Hon. Gentleman said the operatives considered that he (Lord Ashley) had deluded them—that his con duct was, in fact, tantamount to a surrender. Now he (Lord Ashley) believed that the operatives of England were quite as fit judges of what was for their own good as the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Finsbury—(Hear, hear)—and he also thought they hid amongst them ten times more justice and ten times more candour than he could pride himself upon.—(Cheers and laughter.) The letter, from which he was going to quote, was written by autho rity of the Central Short Time Committee of Lan cashire, and it said thus—"'We are all of opinion that the course you have adopted i s th e b es t th a t under the circumstances you could have taken. We shall give you all the support that lies in our power." Mr. AGLIONBY said he hoped the Hon. Member for Finsbury (Mr. 'Duncombe) would not take any course that would interfere with the Noble Lord the Member for Dorsetshire (Lord Ashley). He had ever seen that Hon. Member (Mr. Duncombe) foremost to protect the privileges of the working classes, but he would not show himself the zealous friend he had been to them, if he took any proceeding upon the subject before the House without the sanc tion of that Noble Lord (Ashley). The sincerity of the Noble Lord was great, and his judgment was as great as his sincerity. He.placed implicit faith in the Noble Lord, and re lied entirely upon his judgment and sincerity. He believed that the Noble Lord's course was approved of by the working classes.—(Cheers.) Many of these ••••••- who had cheered the Hon. Member for Finnhultioweiare, directly opposed to the motion, and might, roe. be induced to urge him to go on, in hop es m ole had on t o ing the measure.—(Hear, hear.) They delusions in the minds of the working classes coe, subject, and that wages must inevitably fall in co m er quence of this measure. He believed that the.oceige number of the working classes were as able t ~40 0se , of this question as any of the Members of tht N l r 3 _ . , too They had the greatest interest much for Members who had no acquaintan" did. He believed that too much 1 at oi n t y cs i the practical details to presume to theorise a . : t . h , e o f o was paid to the master mill-owners and to P oei u economises. He acknowledged that the c h it the was one of great difficulty, but he believed te, well intelligent members of the working classes ha u neten t considered the question and were perfectly Noble in it, and it _f o i l to decide it. He should certainly support the Lord.—(Cheers.) t h° Mr. STUART 'WORTLEY complaine tho the House should be called upon to discu ss Dill , motions on the second reading of the elle ° The Honourable Member for Bath hn,d ; te le notice of a motion on going int o ,` - '. ° ool tee, and the Honourable Member for 1! t hat had also given notice of his intention to 1110 ` the Bill be referred to a Select Comm ittee. _ jeer ' Honourable Member for Sheffield bad also meena, notice of his intention to propose an claw ment on the discussion of one of theoly in' Now, it struck him that it would be exceedin sed s t convenient to have all these motions disci% t oo. once ; and he wished to ask the Speaker NVlll;,jeober tion would have precedence—that of the 1 1 ° 1 ' bail? for Bath, or that of the Hon. Member for Ti ns 010 The SPEAKER said that, according t°, t r : been of the House, after th e or d e r o f the dity iitteei, : o o read, the Hon. Member for Finsbury al tee s e sns that the Bill be ref e rred to a Select Comra c when that motion was disposed of, it Was c °93 r ; de- A to any Hon. Member to move a resolution, I° it was relevant to the question. dole, Mr STANSFIELD (who was almost inen 00 owing to the noise and confusion in the }Rose), so d understood to say, that he had several a lteratio'_ t he amendments to propose in this Bill when befor c othe t Committee, and which would affect sever ode' branches of manufactures as well as the woollen stie e Mr. ROSS said there was so much exngg am er and so many misstatements upon this subject, r had thought it his duty to appeal to those w" ° 011 0 the best means of coming to a true conclusiol v° o o matter, so he appealed to several of his constitneabeee the town of. Belfast, and in consequence he b / e lont induced to a certain degr 11'1°,ee to alter his olmo and Petitions, numerously signed by working - ate' young persons about the age of 15, had been prei er fere to the House, praying it not ,to ju t f levi with labour. The petitions, taking a differel et tea from that of his Honourable Friend, n o uss that the inevitable consequence of reducing l o ok of work would be the reduction of wages. n i e leil therefore, the opinion of the manufacturing elnriim backed by that of the working men, he had deteritx. to change his course. Although his conduct wiF teo i pear inconsistent, he thought the best c0n 5 , 1 4 g to was that of always endeavouring to act acoc r aae . what he believed the rights of any particular °,7otiti Mr. HINDLEY thought the best alrll/.lol° favour of the course suggested by the 11°7 the Member for Finsbury was the speech of Honourable Member for Belfast. This ehs u l!tbil opinion showed the necessity of p robing doe whole question to the b o tto m . When tb e rs tao. 4 o trines of political e c onom y w ere lin% t e nit'' The they would be found in- favour of hu,„ l- ,4 4ty Right Hon. Gentleman reproached a rat9,l-e the House with being a tyra n t m ajority. conduct of the Go v er n me n t was suc h as to u he the reproach of a tyrant minority.—(Hear' Qerye In fact, he never saw a Government act in so r, - and ungracious a manner.—(Hear, hear.) 4 0 8 Mr. M. PHILIPS was astonished at the ;00 now taken by the Hon. Gentleman who had, u p r ptg last, and w h o h a d, i n f ormer ti mes , vo id e d all I he as' visions ofthe Factories Act. But he might not 00; tonished at what had fallen from the n° 3 ',. gb 4 ber for Ashton- un d er -L yne .—(H ear, and a c e paoir He would leave it to th e H on . Gentleman b i d elle his own former acts with th e opinions w" vi le o o l ° now expressed.—(Hear). He (M r . Philips) osto take the judgment of the H on . M em ber forgemeet in preference to the statement of the Hon• t e r for for Ashton-under-Lyne. The 31 Hon. 0111 %0 Belfast had been influenced on a f o rmer 0cc0 . . 51- tbn the exaggeratious which had prevailed l a 0 House upon this subject, and he Y, Ot s llt favour of the Noble Lord (Ashley)' der l ° then the Hon. Gentleman inquired i n to the Te at frog a judicious manner, deriving his informatio n , 0 1 practical persons, both men and masters, and 1.1 , 6 2 .01) came forward manfully to declare that he was h' in his former vote.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr,' - 1 1 . 1) 0 °:, always been opposed to interference with the oec` of adults. He, believed, that if they on commenced a series of experi men t a l b e ar.)operatic: labour, where would they stop ?—(1-learerr' They would next have to regu l a t e wages—(-"-t it? and did they think that th e y cou ld c onfine OW terference to time walls of the factories ? could not. They must push their experiment? the every department of labour, and i n e v itably ch lY boPe trade out of the country.—(Hear.) Did they a lte r that they could interfere al so w ith th e labour o' - d e r countries ? Let the Hon. Member forAshtoh'uldi try Lyne go upon the Continent, in the vacation , ° go d 0 his influence with the natives there.—(Hear , 00 laugh.) The Hon. G e ntl eman wou ld b e of VI e h ° unpaid commissioner, but n o d ou bt, h e woulh'ftbny , a zealous one.—(A laugh.) But he would , 1113 ; e t t ° he could not i n d uce th e peop l e on t h e Cont" c 5 11° tie their hands before or behind.—(Hear, hearq Or result of the c omm i ss i on wou ld be just nothingl o in iel fi u i s c i t o , n up p o r n ac th ti i s s ed qu o es n tio t n h , e th p e e r o e pie w ._ as a ni st- hear) d (Hear, l og , t e apologised to the House for detaining it 544 01 0 ° This was the only reference which he wished °, , 0 th, to the Bill itself. H e h a d a l wa y s b een o pposea o ' e appointment of sub-inspectors t o f ac tories. ." e 0 ' always wished that inspectors should be gentle i ;port s a certain class and standing in soc i e ty, whos eol° might be relied upon by the Legislature 011 .00 15 is-1 country. He should like to see th o se i',v,l not c selected from a high e r c l ass , f or he "- wish to see subordinates sent int°, tends and factories, by which the sec rets °I / Ove r might transpire in quarters whi c h the Hous e .tha t intended. What he should recommend sy, ss „; ti° d ° they should select men o f t a l en t an d e"0 0 / for this office. He also objected t ° ye' central office being fixed in London, e it cause if there was any business to be clf. li ti lets,; ought to be done in the manufacturing 4 " .4 he fl"; If there was to be any inspection at all, let „i tb . t" and efficient. It was not in the large t°," } , - -, inspection was so much required as In 1-rlslse remote localities. He also thought that those in the Bill which referred t o th e guar ding ° s ee chinery were superfl uous , as h e b e li eve d that th e enr dents arising from thi s cause h a d b een grossli e Berated. bad Mr. HINDLEY rose t o exp l a i n . H e said : h a e . heard those cha rges repea t e d th ree ti me s chl r ` ll ,l th e debate of 1836 • he did not reply to 6 01 yen'' time, but as he heard them cheered by 11 ° ° ' the n hers now, he supposed that they really belles la to be true. I n 1836 h e was connec t e d with t4 , 0 ;0ed 14 concern in the north of E ng l an d, an d he exP t- n f the wish that they would o b serve th e pro vision - 1 ,01 Factories Bill. He hi mse lf li ve d 200 Inil e ., - o t peg s from it in the metropolis, so that he could sonally apply to know if his partners ohn e `i ( lo 11 1 , 6 1 / 1 provisions. After the house broke up he we acto r asked the manager if he observed the „.•`;' -e (w; Bill. The manager replied " No." ^" e twe lv i Hindley) said I hope you have worked onli re "'- hours." He said they had worked twelve ilc u Ab e a half. He (Mr. H.) asked why they did st a ke° manager replied that at Stayley-bridge the,Y, re fore' twelve hours and chalf, and that they were, tT i ., e e co ol , 6 obliged to work the same time. When he 11 °' tri acquainted with these facts, he took care 00 ha d should not continue so a minute longer thar'fbsectori the power of correcting them. When the ch , b e inspectors brought the matter before the hen of the (Mr. II.) did not seek to diminish the force rico 0 0 accusation. He did not even make his apPe a h rs ido i t t i o the bench. The sons of his partners came t 0 know what should be done. He (Mr. fli n "yag l 'd them that they must pay whatever trate ordered, and if they did not do so, he ° le 41° it himself, because, being in partnership, „,. c olt fine the i d pe.7 legally bound to do so. They were fined 2% 11 ` 0 0 1 and he believed that this 401. was the largest "? paid. But what was the real state of the 0 1'1 ) 01 factory superintendents made a speech again s ,imini s d a law-maker and a law-breaker, in order to Elt.e cue his influence in that House. That was what gone; for. Opponents of his heard this s peech, a ll It s minated it to every Member of the 11 ° use ro . e nsu r e was not the way in which the opponents of th e h i t a an d should have acted. They thought to crash t fleer't the 'question ; but they would be mistaken.--e`etiq°,„ Mr. FERRAND said he had attended a ru the operatives of Manchester on WednesdaY,lo shoo last, who expressed their delight that they w'countrf to legislate fur the working classes of thf rott. ge lll j - They i had expressed a desire that the two 1 1 the y ( 1 ,,, bers'for Manchester would meet him, but 1 00:: not show their face, because they knew that am,.. in e frosv 00 0 - . of the case were with the operatives. the c that the master manufacturers throughout befune d try did not meet the operatives ? Because e, s ide, that the working classes had truth on the l . r l Of t . 1 !1 that falsehood and injustice was on the t si f a e ft master manufacturers. If they had not t t he a t why did they no t come f orwa rd and confrolLtevigee ratives ? Because the operatives were an t he ce s y ; class of men, an d men b e tt er able to discuss he no tion than two-thirds of the Members WllOl addressed.