The Sun. — London, England, 1821-02-13 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LOaDS, Fro. Mr. Johnson presented the First Report of the Irish Fisheries, and Mr. Parkhouse the venteenth Report of the Carnatic Commissioners —Ordered to lie upon the Table. The Longi• tilde Bill was brought up from the House of Commons by :Nlr. Brogden and other Members —Read a first time and ordered to be printed. CONDUCT OF THE ALLIED pOWERS-AUSTRIA ANfl NAPLE•4. The Earl of RO , :sr. - vs said he had "been re coosted by his Nob/e Friend, who had given notice ; of a motion for thk day, to move to dis charge the order for summoning their -Lordships, aad to postpone it fora few days ; several circum stances had contributed to induce his Noble Friend to wish for this delay, but more particu lai-I'v the intelligence which had re C en tly arr i ve d of the' mar - 0 of' the Austrian army to attack Na p!e. n e did not believe that so unwarranted an r *tack upon the rights and liberties of an Inde pendent 'State could be parallelled by any in cance that had occurred in modern times, nor did he think that in the whole history of Europe there could be found any event s o ou t r a geous l y , i•ola.ting,the feelings of an independent people, N . , nose only .offerkce was an attempt to secure their own freedom. It was probable, however, that. some pretences would be_put forth as the motive for this attack, and it was . for the purpose of ! - N-in , what Pretences were alleged on the part of the it7 \ vadrs of the territory of Naples, that his . Noble fi fend' wished for some delay before he brought forward his motion. Ile therefore moved to discharge the order for summoning their Lord !ships this day, and to renew it for Monday next. —Ordered. The Earl GROiVENOR, regretted that he could not he present on 'Monday next, some }it circum stances requiring s absence for a certain time, ns he could have wished to have declared his ab horrence of the . hlood-thirsty and infamcnis con du—et of the Sovereigns - who had attacked Naples. FOREIGN TRADE—AGRICULTURE. The Marquess of L tysnowN gave notice, for Filday next, of his intention to move the revival of the Committee on Foreigm Trade. He also intencted, in bringing forward his motion, to state the limitations and objects with reference to which he should move the re-appointment of the Com- Llittee. The Earl of TAVEIIPOOL had no objection what ever to the motion ; he merely rose to state, that ..1:e should take the opportunity, on Friday next, of moving for sortie information with reference to a point which he had alluded to in his speech on a former evening, he meant the present state of th-.. Agriculture of the Country. In that speecti, founding his argument on the information which he had received, and which h^ had every reason to relrupon, he had attributed the distress of the. Agricultural interests to the excess of pro duction., The Noble Marquess (Lansdown), on t!ie other hand, attributed the distress to a dimi nution of consumption. He (Lord Liverpool) admitted, that this was a fair alternative, as the d;stress must arise either from increased produc titm, of diminished consumption. With a view, therefore, of putting the House in possession of facts with reference to this point, it was his in tention to move for, certain information upon this subject on Friday next. THE QUEEN. The Earl of DARNLEY adverted to an under standing some time since, that there would be no objection on the other side, at the proper time, to the production of an Account of the expences of the proceedings against the Queen, and ob served that as the prosecution or persecution pinit her Majesty was now t erm i na t e d, at l east v ith referenc e to any open proceeding, be sup- posed there would he now no objection to the Production of the Account ; if there was, how ever, he would make the motion on Friday. His Lordship then moved for an Account of the ex- Fences of the proceedings against her Majesty the Queen, from their first commencement to the present time. The Earl of LTYEaPOOL suggested that the Account should be from '1817 : but afterwards oliA;erved, that the motion would, be sufficiently uu-derstood as originally worded. - The Account was ordered.—Adjourned till to murrow (this day.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr..T.thlison from the Office of Chief Secretary for Ireland, presented 3 - Rl..;Port from the Comthissioners of the Irish Ei,Lh-tries,—Oriered to - be prir.ted. - Mr. Curtis, frthn the Bank of England, presented an Ac count of the total number of Bank Notes in circulation.—Or dered to be printed. •Mr. Parker presented the Seventeenth Report of the Carnatia torr i .nis;or.t - Ts.—Ordered to be printed. .• stif.W. LEMON presented _a Petition from biskeard; COrriviall, praying for the restoration of her Majesty to her full rjghts,,arol to the insertion of her, name in the Liturgy.—Qr dered to 1:- printed. .. . • Mr. 4 t ONSLOIV presented a Petition from the In o: .;..;Idford, expressive of the alarm of the Peti ti•—.z: ; ..arnple of an infraction of her Majesty's rights iolntion of their own, representing the general c • :•• 1•' 7: ., 10.1i the country labenred, and praying for ;:t_cforin.. - On presenting the Petition the Hon. and L%1.1":".'. • ,:::tlnnan argued at some length to prove that the oniission of tie Queen's name in the Liturgy was illegal anti - _tinconstitutional—that the precedent of the Queen of George the Fitsl was quite inapplicable to the case; and that the Act cf.lit.4'ormity prescribed the rule, any departure from winch was whclly unjustifiable—The Petition was ordered to be printed. ()n- the .motion of Mr. S. AtORTLEY the Bull Poor Rates' Bill. was reads second time, Mr: LAMBT()N giving notice, that as he understood it trenched on the.rights of some of his - Coastituents who belonged to the Shipping Interest, lie would oppose it at a future-stage. ROPEIVAKERS' PETITION. Sir R. WILSON presented a Petition from above 700 Rope makft's of the Metropolis, co mpl a i n i ng of distress. .Many - of them were absolutely living on charity. They attributed the evils under which they laboured principally to excessive taxa tion; from winch they prayed for relief. SOme part of the op pression which they suffered, - the Petitioners ascribed to toe introduction of machinery into their trade, which had thrown more than two-thirds of their number out of employ. They were by no means hostile to ingenuity; hut there was one most obnoxious machine called the .devil, which enabled 5 or. 6 men to do that which was formerly the work of 70 or 80. This devil the Petitioners trusted the house would put - into imme diate connexion with the Right lion. Gentleman opposite, in ondet. that he might be made to take his share of the general toestiOn.—CA • laugh.)--The lion. Gentleman observed, that if the Pro Sen t -condition of the country long . continued, the gr. - Alcoa of all callinities must ensue; for in that case, we iitiould have rot Only a suffering population, but an idle popu lat.ion ; • and the effect of idleness on morals was too well known to render it necessary for hire, to expatiate on the subject.— (Hear, hear !) On the motion that the Petition be brought up, Mr. CURWEN observed, that on a former occasion, when a Petition was presented remonstrating, against the undue use of machinery,, and praying for a restraint upon it, a long discus sion had taken place, in the course of which it appeared to be the unanimous opi n i on o f a ll t he most intelligent :Members :of the House, that the discouragement of machinery would be highly injurious to the country ; opinion in which he be lieved the Petitioners theirnihlvea afterwatds concurred. The Petition ww.; then brOughtnp, read, and ordered .to 'be. printed. Mr. BENNET presented a Petition from Hinckley, con demning the late proceedings htgainat hereMajestyots unfair, and scandalous, and recommending the immediate re storation of her Majesty's name to the Liturgy. It also prayed for Parliament try Rethrm.—Ordered to be printed. On the motion of Mr. WESTERN, an account was ordered to be •laid before the House of the quantity . of. Corn-wash dis tilled in England from the AM July, 1789, to the sth July; 1820, distingejahing the qthintities distilled in each year. - Sir R. lIERON presented a Petition from Alford, in Lin: colnshire, signed isy - a aminber of industrious and respectable inhabitants, praying ;hi- the restoration of h er Majesty's name to the Liturgy. The floriel3aronet said, that feeling as he did the impoliey; illegality and inju s ti ce o f h er M a j esty ' s name being omitted, h e had great pleasure in declaring his hearty concurrence in the.prayer of the Petitioners. The Petition was ordered to be printed. •On the motion of Sir G. CLARKE, the Longitude Bill was read a third ti me an d p asse d. STATE OF AGRICULTURE. Mr. GOOCH gave notice, that on Thursday the let of March he would move,for a Committee to take into consideration 'the present state of agriculture. Sir J. NE WPORT, in moving that certain orders for re-- turns of sums paid - into - the First Fruits Office, in Ireland, Sec. which had not been complied with, should be complied with forthwith, observed, that similar delays in .obeying the com mands of the House were frequent, and had very much Te tarded inquiry into public abuses. The returns in question were . ordered to be made forthwith. . PETITION FRO3I DOVER. Mr. BUTTERWORTH presented a Petition from the In habitants of Dover, praying for the restoration of her Majesty's.' name in the Liturgy. While on his legs, perhaps, lie Might be allowed, to advert to a gloss misrepresentation which had, taken place, of What had fallen from him on a foriner evening. In what he had then thought it his duty, to Offer; he had not said one word about the restoration of the Queen's name to the Liturgy, but hi some of the public prints he had been made to express a - very strong opinion on that subject. This - he had carefully .avoided, confining himself solely to other matters. He then read some pasages from the Petition to show the ob ject of those who_ presented it, remarking by the way, that Dover being a place in which the feelings of the populace were likely to be strongly moved, the Petitioners anxious not to do any thing that would agitate the public mind, had not called a public meeting, but had drawn up the Petition in private, and left it for those who thought proper voluntarily tb pot their signatures to it.' The Petitioners_ willing for a Reform, gave as an additional reason the majority in that :louse of 101 in favour of the exclusion of the Queen's name from the Liturgy. This opposition to her Majesty's lawful claims proved to them that the House did not speak the sense of the people. In another part, they :express anxiety for the suppression of those disloyal publications which had appeared against the King, as well as those which had been sent forth -against his Royal CoPsort ; and they declared they viewed the language held in the public prints on both "sides as most repugnant to the principles of mo rality, and they prayed the House to address the Crown, calling for the restoration of the Queen's name to the - Liturgy. • . Mr. IL WILBRAHAM corroborated the statement of his lion. Colleague, as to the manner in which this petition was got up, and the anxiety manifested not to disturb the public peace. He wished the spirit of conciliation existed generally in the country as strongly as it did in th a t di v i s i on o f i t . Mr. LITTLETOIN, tmderstanding this petition to refer to the Public Distress, thought it might not be improper to ad vert to what had f a llen. f rom hi m on a former night (when the Birmingham Petition was before the House) which had. been misrepresented in some of the newspapers. He had suggested, that as a measure for relieving the agriculturist and the "poor manufacturers, it might be. desirable, if it were possible, to fir substitute r those duties whi c h pressed most hardlyon those classes, a Property Tax; and a Tax on the Interest of the Na tional Debt. He had never concurred with an Hone Member opposite in wishing to reduce the rate of interest on the Public Debt. Great as the distress of those he wished tO relieve was, he disclaimed all participation in the project of the Honourable Member to whom he had alluded. Meaning .no.otfence to the Hon. Gentleman, in his view such a measure would be disho nourable—would be a violation of good faith that would go to affect the bases-on which' property rested in this - and in every Other country. • . . Mr. CURWEN hoped he had always been as anxious to preserve an honourable and independent character as the no:- nourable Member who had just sat down. In the long time that he had sat in that House, he had never given a vote which he was-rot prepared to support. He did not kn ow w h y, w h e n se much distress w as f e lt by other classes, why, the property df the fundholder should be exempted from those ',girth:ens - to which the others were obliged to submit. Circumstances had augmented the property of the fundholder, while that of the landholder was diminished. The latter • had fallen more than 2.5 per cent. He knew of two very considerable estates that had been lowered 2 per cent. anti yet the farmers were now calling for a further reduction of rent. Under existing circumstances, it appeared to him that nothing could be more fair than that the fundholders should not only contribute to the . - maintes nonce of' the poor, but their property should .be subjected• to that depreciation which had fallen on every other description of property. Mr. BENNETT (Member for Wilts) . observed, • that the fuuOholder unavoidably paid taxes on the purchase of. various articles of common use. Sir C. BURRELL - thought that the pressure on the landed interest was such, that unless further protection were afforded,' the agricultural classes must he lost to the country, yet he would be the last man to recommend a violation of public faith. But a plan of taxation had been suggested that Would make funded property liable without any violation of public faith whatever. The idea was not his own ; it had been sug gested to him some time ago by a Gentlemen connected with the collection of the revenue. It was this, that a trifling tax should be imposed on transfers of stock, and this, according to the calculation of the Gentleman who had shggeked it, would produce not less than income of between three and four Mil- Lions per annum. This plan, if adopted, might relieve the .generalpressure of taxat i on, a nd th at without' violatin g that good faith, which ought to be preserved with the public.cre ditor. Mr. P. GRENFELL considered the recommended reduc tion of the interest of the public: debt would be neither more nor less than a direct breach of Nth, and a violentattack on prO perty. He did not think the resources of this country so far ex hausted as to make any measure of the kindnecessary. Let Ministers apply themselves in earnest to tranquillize the 1ie0... ple—let them restore her Majesty's name to the Liturgy (he knew of no other way of bringing -.back tranquillity)—and let them have recourse to measures of economy and.retrenchment, and he had no doubt that our resources would - prove sufficient to carry the Nation through all its difficulties. The petition was ordered to be printed. - SCOTCH LAW COURTS. . The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND gave notice of a Motion for Thursday, to carry into effect a part of the Re port of the.Conunissioners on , the Scotch Law. Courts.—ln an swer to a question frot ,Mr. M. A. Taylor, we understood the Learned Lord to say; that lie did not mean to ektend'his pro position to the Court of Exchequer. _KILMAINIIAAL Lord JOHN R,USSF,,',LL postponed his motion, which stood for to-morrow, respecting-the proceedings of the Kilmainham Meeting, to Tuesday - the :27th of March. THE ALLIES AND NAPLES. Lord J. RUSSELL inquired of the Chancellor of the Ex- . chequer whether Governoment had received any copy of a De claration made by the Allies, Austria, Russia, and Prussia,' explanatory of their present intentions, addressed to the ,Go vernment of Naples. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not aware that any such Declaration had been received from the Allies. Some other Member of his Majesty's Government, or his Noble Friend, when he came down to the House to-mor row, would perhaps be.able to afford him. some information on the subject, which it was not in his power to supply. GRAM POUND. Lord JOHN RussEr.r, in moving that the House should resolve itself into a Committee on the 6 rampound Disfranchisement Bill, observed, that it would be quite superfluous for him to go over the grounds on which the Bill had been intro duced, fully discussed as they had been on so many former occasions. Adverting to the pro positions whiCh had been made with respect to the place to which the franchise should be trans feiTed, he said he should himself prefer trans ferring it to Leeds, because that place contained a large and respectable class of housekeepers, who at present had no vote for the election of a Member of Parliament,, and because that would - practically tend to mice the grievance that five of th 1 tit l e e o la r rg a es s t i n t g o l % e V n i s iG t trese r i e l a ta t tive! the 'e s d at Q n S : f time it was aliriost a.great a grievance that n ; County, so extensive nd populous as Yorkshire, 1 should return but t;v Members to Parliament. ' He was really very itliiferent whether the elec tive franchise taker frm Grampound, was con-. ferred on Leeds, or o! the - County of York ge nerally. He shoUlt nt .at present enterjato the general question ofßeorm ; 'what he thought, if the Bill was not p;ssd in one of those forms which he had mentond, it would he to tell the people.that they cotldiave no expectations from that house: The .f.'Zble Lord concluded_ by moving the Order cf. tie Day for the House to resolve itself into aCcamittee. Mr. GIIENFELL stid.that as lie bad , previously resisted all motions for ['reform as visionary, it was necessary for him o state his' reasons for supporting the Bill. 11 . would oppose any great or general alteration of he Constitution, but he, was. willing to adopt anrinciple for the removal of corruption, and for aiplyin, , ,a specific remedy, as it was proposed to do is the yresent instance, by transferring the rigt of election to the town of Leeds ; that he thog,ht would be a practical remedy to an admitod evil, the adoption of which could not but se attended with salutary consequences. Mr. R. MARTIN saitl, - that be sho7tld resist the Bill in every stage of it, both as to the pr;nciple and the application of it. It set out with stating : an untruth, .by dedaring Also the elections in Grampound were rotoriously corrupt. In : re futing that assertiorrhe referred to the elections which had taken place since The ,Bill had!been ' pending. In this particular instance they should try the efficacy of the existing law before they ventured on a new plan—they, should try the efficacy of the bribery oath, as tendered at all elections ; if that ware done he had no doubt but that much of the Evil comp)ained of, %you'd be avoided. He shbull as soon think of taking a way the Cha'rter from the Bank of England, as the Franchise froth the Borough of Grampound. Mr. Serjeant Osg,ow contended, that the im provement in the - ptrity of election, as evinced in the two late elections for Grampound, was to be attributed to the fat of this Bill having been hanging over the heals of the electors. The bri bery of Grampound was so notorious, that he would, without hesitation,, consent to the dis franchisement of that Borough. . He approved of transferring the right cf . voting to the Town of Leeds in preference tc the adjoining Hundreds of Pyder and Powder, vltich were already fully represented. Mr. WILSON approvelof the Bill because it went to remedy a practical evil. As to the com parison which had been made between Gram pound and the Bank of England, he contended, that if a blot appeared on 'the Charter of the Bank, it should not be field sacred , after the powers entrusted to it had been abused. lle thought the only wiry in: which Parliamentary Reform could safely take plaCe was, that'wherd ' ever an .evil was proved to exist, a suitable re medy should be applied. Mr. LockuAnT contended, that it had been proved that the King's writ for the return of : Alf4rlhP i'S ' fur : -thA norough of -Grampound had been regularly construed into a.writ of vendicioni exponas. He did not object to disfranchisement of that Borough, but he did not wish that the principle of . extending the elective franchise to •the payers of scot and lot should be Inked up with the present Bill. He believed the repre sentation to be on too narrow.a basis either to shield the people, or to support the dignity of the Crown. Ho should, therefore, give his sup port to any regulation kvhicla would adMit pro perty to a greater share h the representation.— He did not approve, however, of the transfer of the elective franchise to the payers of scot and lot, as it would hear too intensely on a'mixed. Monarchy. To the disfranchisement of Gram- ! pound, as an act of political justice, he had not 1 the least objection. Sir J. NEWPOitTsaid, that the Honourable Member (Mr. Lockhart)expressed himself fully satisfied as to the principle of disfranchising Grampound, he only differed upon a compara tively immaterial point, namely, as to what place the franchise should be transferred. The far greater difficulty_ was as, to recognising the .prin ciple of disfranchising the Borough ; a principle rendered quite necessary, in consequence of the shameful system of bribery' and corruption which had been so long practised by the Electors of Grampound. With respect to what had fallen from the Honourable Member for Galway (Mr. Martin), undoubtedly, if that Honourable Gen tleman thought that there was, no necessity for Reform 'of any kind—=if be thought that gross bribery Ought not to be noticed, there could not, in his opinion, be any use for the House going into a Committee, nr doing any thing else to put an end to bribery-and corruption.. But, that Hon. Gentleman had stated his conviction that Many of the Electors were bribed, and how did he propose to protect the public from that evil ? 13y adding. perjury to bribery (Hear !)'; •for if the oaths of persons guilty of bribery and corruption were to be taken, what would it lead to?—manifestly to nothing but perjory. Ile (Sir John Newport) could not ',help thinking that the plan suggested by the Honourable 111(nnber would rather con firm the evil than promote any salutary Reform, it would be more injurious to the character of the. people than any othertneasure. Mr. MA BTLN explained.- He did not make light of bribery, what he wished was, that those whir might be found guilty, of bribery and cor ruption should be punished, but he thought that the law ought not to punish their descendants. A MEMBER (whose name we could not learn) said,- that though he had hitherto voted against the measure of Parliamentary Reform, he would . . , yet support the present Motion; 'he would do so because the measure would give great public sa tisfaction. He.waS not, however:, one of those who thought that a Reform in Parliament would remove the public grievances, he was convinced that the public voice was echoed more frequently within the walls of that Horise than it was the fashion to acknowledge. 1 Mr, DAVIES GILUERT rose to move iustruc dont to the Committee. The . lion. Met - liter spoke in a low tone, and was very imperfectly heard in the Gallery: lie said, that on the main question of Reform, lie perfectly agreed to every sentiment contained in a late speech pronounced by the Right Hon. Member for Liverpool, before his Constituents: The Constitution of England solved a problem which no.other Country in like world was ever able to do: \ lt preserved and. united Dentotracy,with Monvphy and Aristo cracy.. 1 1, 11 e Demcit ratic patt ol'th4 Constitution absorbed a great portion of the power of Go verpment,.and it was necessary that it should be controuled by the influence of the other parts.- - Notwithstanding 'what had been said respecting the want of sympathy with the people, he (Mr. Gilbert) thought that the House was more dis posed to be carried away by the temporary opi nions of the people than it always ought to be.— The Hon. Gentlethan then stated, at some length but in a very .inaudible manner, his opinions on the question before the House. He stated that he. was willing to support the principle of the Bill for ,defranchisin , Grampouud, but he thought that no Freeholder, who had _not been convicted of bribery, should be deprived of his right of voting, but that he should retain that right, and that the right of voting generally should be tr ans fe rre d t o th e neighbOuring Hun dreds. The Hon. Gentleman" concluded by moving; " That instructions should be given to , the Committee to make a provisiOn to extend the right of voting of the Borough of GraMpound to the Preeholders of the adjacent Hundreds." Ah.' PHILLIP-3 commenced by replying to the observations which fell from the last Speaker, respecting the Constitution of Parliament, and its relative - situation arid duties with regard to the people'; but owing to the indistinct tones in which he spoke, we were not enabled to collect his sentiments clearly. The . Hon: Gentleman opposite . (Mr. D. Gilbert) did "not deny that gross practices had existed in this borough. Yet he would not extend the elective franchise to. some distant district, where' its example would not -be likely to operate ; but was for confining it im mediately around the spot where the contagious corruption was most probably lurking. Where there was an increase of commerce, wealth, and population; there was always an increase of intel ligence. And if wealth, commerce, pdyulation, and intelligence , was not that which ought to b e represented, he Would ask what was ? lie thought it a great calamity that so much of the com merce of the country was not represented.— If so great a mass found themselves excitliled from the benefits of the Constitution, they would infallibly be . made . enemies of the Constitution. When the. Honourable Member referred to the population of the hUndreds near Grampound, he wished him•also to. refer to the popUlation of other districts.—The County of Cornwall sent forty-four Members to Parliament,. which was the eleventh part of the whole repre sentation. Now the County of Lancaster, which contained between an eleventh and a. twelfth part of the whole population, only sent a thirty-fifth part of the representation. The county of York. contained a tenth part of the populati on , audits a woportiou in the representation Ts'zis between a .!s..eventeerith and an 'eighteenth. Looking at the relation between the population of Cornwall and its representation, and to that of-York and Lau , . caster, Cornwall sent one member to Parliament for every five thousand, Lancashire one to every sixty thousand, and Yorkshire one .to every thirty-three thousand. Now he saw no ground :whatever ,why cornwall should send. this prodi 7 gious number of Members to Parliament. The wealth of Cornwall, in comparison to that of the other Counties, was. as 'one - _to fifteen. The pro perty of Cornwall was one fifty-fourth part of the real property of .England, The real property of Lancashire was one sixteenth part, while the real property of Yorkshire was one-tenth or one eleventh. Thus it appeared, that the representa tion was distributed in an inverse ratio, according to the existence of wealth and commerce. If they proceeded further, it would he found, that in the year 1815, the catinty of Cornwall paid one sixty seventh part of the whole, rates of the county, whilst Yorkshire paid one tenth, and Lancashire between a seventeenth and an eighteenth part. It appeared to him that the populous districts of the kingdom wanted representation more than any other object. lie_ considered it to be a most important principle to be established, that a trans fer of the elective franchise should be made from. a small borough to a large and populous manufac turing town. For that reason be should give his support to the Bill. Ni'. H. GURNEY observed that the llon. Gen tleman who had proposed- the amendment, was a strenuous advocate for his Cornish •brethren ; yet he (Mr. G.) was quite at a loss to know what Cornwall had done to deserve a double re presentation, and he had yet to discover the strong claims of those two hundreds spoken of by the lion. Member, ;'idler and Powder.—(Hear, hear•!)—ln his opinion, there was no more ten-' dency among the County Members towards the democratic principle, than among those Members who were returned .for Boroughs. From the reign of Edward I. down to the time of Charles 11. a period of 400 years, the principle of trans fer had .been acted upon in 140 instances. But no proceeding similar to the present had taken place at a more distant period than 50 years back. That was the case of the Borough of Shoreham, and occurred in the year 1771, when Lord North's Administration was obliged, in its weak ness, to submit, the numbers being, on a division, 76 to 15. The second instance was that of Ayles bury, a Borough that had been stoutly contended for, as being the property of the Marquess of Buckingham. lie now came to say a few words respecting the county of Cornwall. It was as much the prerogative of the Crown to send writs for the return of Members to the House of Com mons, as it was to introduce new Peers to the other House. But then that prerogative was to he cautiously exercisedi In ancient times Corn wall had only six Boroughs ; bot, in the time of Henry -V E., the Ministers of . the Crown, finding themselves opposed in the progress of a certain Bill, Dudley, Duke of Northumberlandonm moned six more Cornish Members for six new 13Orou" telling the electors in th e m ean ti me 0 wilan tiloy were to return. In the Boroughs of Cornwall the royal prerogative had been abused, and a great advantage would arise, if, whenever any orthem were disfranchised, the representa tion was opened to large niandacttiring towns, which at present returned pp Members to that House. The Mori. W. WARD was of opiniod ' hat this' question bad nothing whatever t,c, do sti !liege tikral question of Portiamentary Refesrm; vend lie hoped he should not he thought pledged to sup.: port Reform, because l Ove his ready assent to the present proposition. There was no man who looked at the large manufacturing towns, which did not send Members to the Legislature, but must be convinced that they suffered some incon venience from not having a more direct represenr tation—(Hear !)—Let him not be misunderstood ; he would contend that there was no lar g e boly of people unrepresenied in that Hous e , nor any portion of the population which did not find in it sympathising, interests. Where the cases were not Urgent, he thought indirect representation Wokil I he preferable ; __but where the into rests d t id'f o #:. tunes of men were at stake; as often lia:,•ipened'iti large towns of the description adverted to, he thought a prima facie case was made out idly they should be represented by persons more imme diately under their influence, and in whom they could repose peculiar confidence. But then 4 wenld be said that this was a dangerous prece 4 dent ; as it would lead to an increase of the Metre hers in the House of Commons. That objection might bold good, if it could be sustained—hut in cases like the present it fell to the groUnd. Thtl had now the means in their. hands ,to serve the ~ representation, without increasing the number o, representatives ; and while they were obligeti t.L) be ingenious and active in discovering the mode of disposing of the franchise, he had no hesitation irk saying, that he thought it ought to be trans.- ferred to some of the manufacturing towns: Should it be given to the County . of York, wi c t&t . : . would be taken from the cOrnmercial would be conferred on the Agrivaltural Iw:scrests, whicis- would be a manifest injustice. Without intend.- lag the slightest disrespect to "country Gentle Men, he wenld Say, that they did not appear ti him to be the persons best qualified, from their ,habits, to. transact all that intricate detail of business which came ,before the House. I a the present instance, the representation had, as it were, been - estreated to the House,. and it ought to he given to some one of those, places, which. were rendered important by their population, trade, and manufactures. There wils, nothing which was more to be deprecated than a ri l conflictio n ercia i i nterests. between c n 4GI 5 .r h o, e a L air et i i c rlt u e,.s l yt t s t oti • i a lga l ibi taiirodo have iv: coin 1% 0 . e i u n pa - .. within the last direct representation. He did not mean that it should be in proportion to the population,' for that he considered preposterous and extravagant ; but he would have all interests as it were per-, ~ sonified in that House. If it was untrue that thrre ~, ever was a time when the represeatation was fa proportion to the population, so it was also untrue that there ever was a time when there were any towns in this.country unrepresented. But while •. they conformed to the wise regulations of their, ancestors, he saw .no reason why . large towns • should not have a more direct representation- Ile confessed Ire did not understand the,grogud upon which the Hon. Member's proposition wa • . founded. He did not see what title proximity L . 5..„. 1 'game to share in the franchise, or %.:Ity a neigh-. bouring hundred should be heir to a deceased borough.--(A laugh.)--To him the inhabitants of Threadneedle-street appeared to have as good,- claim to the franchise as those of 'any of the Hundreds which Were . adjacent to Cirampound- To the voters themselves it. would be no boon as . it would be diffused among an indefinite number-, • . Mr. D. GILBERT said, he proposed to preserve the - elective franchise ,to all the voters during their lives. They amounted to 43 or 50. After- , wards the right of voting would be given to the Mayor and Corporation', twelve in number. Mr. WARD Continued: Rut .2 fter all, what WO/ it they talked of ? Wh a t w as it th e e l ectors of ' Grampound had now l'. A good marketable COw— modity.—(Elear ! and a laugh); --and they were going to give them i n re t urn a dry constitutiona l. franchise. They should put out of the case , Cricklade, Shoreham, and Aylesbury, which were too recent to be of any authority, r and ess,cea sisfent with ancient usa ge . Till w i t hi n t h e me mory of man, there we r e no suc h anoma li e s a 5 , these half-knights h a lfLb urgesses .- Th e bur gesses which his Noble Friend (Lord J. Russell) had dug up in his patriotic excavations- - -(a laugh)/ —had mote the air of genuine antiques than these half-knights half-burgesses representing corrupt amputated boroughs eked out by Freeholders of • . the hundreds. He (Mr. W.) was disposed to liv e , in the old houSe as long I ecould, but if a P ar ' ; 1 as 1., of it fell•down a b ou t hi s ears, he would rebuild it as well as he could. 'He would not willing l7 I pull down, but when it was necesslr y t o renew What was fallen, h e wou ld no t l oo k at ugliness 39 the only pledge of security—(Hear, hear!). — _ 'When the reformers point e d ou t to him the irre-. , gularities of the constit u ti ona l b u ildi n g, h e would-- say, "I will not at all trust my own posers 1 ` ) „ pull it down for the purpose,of ie.:building it; but he would also say, " when lam obliged-to i alter it, 1 will do it according to" a form which pro-, tilses to my judgment strength and convenience . —(hear; hear !). . Mr. W. WYNNE supported the. Bill. No Mem ber had argued that it could be fit or desirable: after. the gross and glaring corruption whicto Grampound had ex hibit e d , i t s h ou ld con tinue send :Membe r s t o P ar li ament. The same n (0. had t rious syste m w hi c h h a d b een e xp O se d now, existed for yea r s. Th ese b oroug h s we re not in fluenced by individuals, nor by localproperty..---", _ As one who sat upon the Committee which led t e ° the disfranchisement of Aylesbury, he could stato, that that borough was not under the influence of any one individual, but always bifluenced by . 1 1 _ e heaviest purse. He saw no earthly reason sc t i . _ the ele-etive franchise should be confined to _tl e e hundreds. He thought the breach ought to : 0 filled up to the greatest advantage. There . 0 no apparent objeCtion.to the plan of the /\ ., , , b.: 1. Lord ; and he could not' agree with hi.". 11° Friend opposite, that it would_ open a door t) ~.-.-