The Sun. — London, England, 1803-03-10 00:00:00

eed Royal Noble lidt that ofarn given it was g• fur resent 6Eiirs. pp!. 0 .7 . louse; 'since anct, were 3 the he 5 was . roouti t the d his been Year 1 the :sent hoot ne. that on tion lure con- hich 104 the give dr. itish ;cry fa ;o4 his }ion the .1 .' 0 1.1 • 116 , . V~~ :tJ«' F • y gust long 3 Oa, olll• 5 in `lere !OW by the he . 0$ ',ESO . 4 - doubt, if requeste d on such an occasion, they were 4it sacrificersviti . ch would:be cheerfollyttliade ; but here 1/ he begg e d i t to b e undetstood, that all which was stared:in His Majesty's Message had reference to a system of Defence,and was only matter of Precaution. He : was sanguine enough to hope, that, on this day, the House would give proof of an unanimous deter mination to enable His Majesty to adopt such mea sures as were essential to the true interests of the Country. He should not propose to convey the sentiments of the House in terms by which any in dividual should he pledged, or committed, to any future measure; or by which the discretion of Par liament should be pre-engaged; but he trusted, that Whatever Gentlemen's sentiments migbt.be on some 0 1. the measures of Government, either on the Terms ot,the Peace, or the supposed advantages of a state of War, yet that all would concur in supporting the Motion he should have the honour of submitting to the House, the substance of . which was to assure His Majesty, that he may rely on his 'Parliament in sappfitting .His Majesty in such measures as may be necessary fur the honour of his Crown and the essential interests of his People. He then moved an Address to the following substance, " That an Bumble Address be presented to His Majesty, to tilAok is Majesty for his most .gracious Message ; to assure His Majesty, that his faithful Commtins are, 4 ,.imPtessed with' a full sense of this fresh proof 11 s14ajesty's unceasing attention to the wel. Ara of his People ; that under the present circurn. !Levees, they could not hesitate to concur with His .a lsiesty in thinking it expedie nt/o adopt additional " f alls*f preeautiOn for the security' of :his Do. ainions l 'tha t though the preparations to which His ' l4 a,lesty referred were avowedly direded to Colo. Savice,' yet as discussions of great importance were still 'subsisting between His Majesty and the French Government, the result Of which might be t neertain, that they partake of his earnest and' un. "frit* solicitude for the continuance of Peace, ltd that His Majesty might rely with confidence on 1 44 exertions to enable His Majesty to adopt - such eheasureit as circumstances night require, for sup. Porting the honour of . his Crown and the essential interests of his People." This Address being read, and the question put, itir• FOX said, that no vote hail ever been given on any occasion; and particularly by'hins, in 'such compleat and utter darkness as that which was now proposed. To thank His Majesty for his gracious Communication—to concur with him in the support tif, the Honour of his Crown, and the essential in terests of his People, were prdpositiani which it was morally impossible to oppose. The Message stated two grounds : firSt, the ground of the Anna, rnen t in France and Holland : this was matter of fad capable of proof, and therefore must be sup. Posed to be correEtly stated. The next was the ground of Disi.ussion . ;, and 'here he was entitled to avail himself of what had been said by the Right Hon. Ge nt lem a n in the opening of this subjed to She n o ose, whidi vas, that tie Address did not pledge the House to any thing. His 'Majesty stated there were Subjeds of discOssion. He did not give to the House the remotest hint what they might be, 'whether 'in tetdpe, Assia, Africa or. America ; tspon no part oj whirh 4.J he Piire any urhatever ,must assume, that what e ver h e - stared to ae of fttspertance was of importance ; but be had no means of forming his opinion upon it ; be was left in a state of entire darkness; That he 11435 ready to thank' His Majesty for - his gracious ehlrnunication, and was ready to join in any tnea. surer which might be necessary to support the Dig. Lily of the Crown, and promote the 'W e lf are o f the P eop l e, tvere 'propositions in this Address to which he gave his assent most readily ; but not farther, without some information. Haviog said this, Le would add,shat any one who would carefully exa. Mine the present state of the British EmOire, would feel there never was a period . in Which it was so essential this Country to avoid the Calamities of war as . the present, an d, t h ere f ore, if we were in. • volved in Vas 'by any fault' of Ministers, they would be move guilty than any other Advisers or Counsellors of this or any other Count:3i. • Lord HA WrE.,SI3URY - said it would not be tie. cessary for him to trouble the Hthise Lang upon the preSent occasion, be shoold therefore say but a very few words. In one p,art of his *Speech, the Hon. ( , ;entlernan who spokelast had rather.misapprehend ed his Right Hon. Ft - lend. "Ife nieunt; its the two objed s he had stated, that of the preparations of Armaments in-the ports of France anti Holland, and: the D . iscussion , remaining be tween Hi s M a j esty an d G the OVeirlaiiint iifFrance, Thel-Icin. Gentleman seemed to think his Right. Hon.,Vriep4, had stated, that one of these grounds was only fit ground for t his'AddreSs, 'whereas what his Right_ Htm..Ftiend had said was this, that one of these. graunds was.. sufficient 'fin- the circomspedion and vigilance',ol Government, but that. both .combined,that. was, the Preparations and the Discussion, called for some. thing more, and required that Ministers should advise. His Majesty, to send ; the resent Nessage to the House, and to secure that caution and that vigilance. As to what the Hon. - Gentleman had, said upon the Address, in the latter part of his Speech, he agreed with--'him, that the Address did , not pledge or commit the House to any thing. As .to the subjeet 421 Discussion which might at present be subsisting oettveenliis Majesty and the French Government,' Ile Would repeat is hat'hiSitiglit 06. i. Viiend had already stated : if this discu s sion s h ou ld l ea d to Yvarr, it would be the duty_ of Government to lay b _elose the I l ouse a ll t h e. I n f ormat i on it.coold, as to' causes Of tilt War and the.consludoftMinisters ; t;e Would go. fu r the r .and .say, it woultkbe Tight, up.. u l e r the pre s en t c i rcumstances , not to confine it to, ) j e a,s itOmediately depending, but,he should wish most anxiously, that the whole condu6., of Ga.. e , content. since the c o n c l us i on , of. the . Definitive :lreaty, to the present moment, should be fairly laid fie fore the "louse. and the Country. 'He w as satis. .on a review of that conduti, His Majesty's ''Roisters would have no reason to repent of it ; and when that came before the Muse, he .should be /sad) , to enter into the discussion of the. whole or , any part of that conduft which any Gentleman in the tiouse might think proper to require—Under the present circumstances, however, he thought non ad, i.v,anrages co u ld ar i s e b y catering into the measure of took at p resent , or events that antecedentlY Place; that would answer at presint no useful purpose...lithe Addresi, if it pledgeA the. tense to any thing upon, it, tinittht embarrass the House.-- The Address pledged the House to` nothing but that to which the House was ready to assent at all times, namely, to, sUpport Maj?s!y ing the dignity of the Crown and the essential iu. teres,ts of the Country. . • Mr. lel xpl-LOT assured the House he had no intention to cla im its attention long. He agreed with an :Honourable Gentleman who spoke' before him, that the House was put into rather an hard situation, because it WAS called upon to ad in - the dark ; he. did not think it was sufficient for the House to be told that hereafter they shall be in pos session of the ground on,Which the,present proceeding was proposed. The House ought •to be, in.a tion where it might have some knowledge of events, in a crisis so considerable; the House ought toknow something upon this subje4l,, instead of Proceeding upon a nullity of information ; for upon this matter which now occupied its.most serious attention, the House knew literally nothing; it was told only in general terms, that exertions are necessary.. The House indeed knew that very considerable arma. ments, had been made, - -and a great change made in the system of what was called Peace. He must therefore enter a species of protest against the mode .now adopted, the necessity, being in his opinion, such as to call for it, and.requiring exertion : that the force proposed to be used should.be used merely as defence; now all species of force might be so used, especially in the first instance, but it was here of the last importanee, when great force was necessary, to know what that force was, because prudence might require force of dilferent sorts in dif ferent circumstances : there was some that was in its nature defensive, and defensive only ; that must be the case of the Militia ; but for the interpretation of the present vote, nothing . more need be said, than that the Houseconcurred i,t. They pledged themselves to nothing but •that which had been already stated, and in that no man 'could have any difficutty. Here he should have ended, if it had ,not bren for some observations made on the other side of the House It was said, on a former occasion, by au Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fox), that Peace was his policy and first wish, said Mr. WI 0-DHAM, and that War was mine. ' 4 I am, at present, in no state to say, I can be in no state to say, whether War would_ be expedient or not ; if it were necessary to come to an opinion, no conclusion could be drawn from the. conduct of those who were the most vehement opposers of the. Peace, what their "opinion would be now. That they should be sup posed. -to. be glad of what was now proposed, that they exulted in it, would catch with patience at any prospett at the renewal of the War, would be a conclusion as false in red. suning, as unfounded in fad." The very reverse was the fact ; he who was a vehement oppose! of the Peace of Amiens, who had no reason now to alter the opinion he gave then, but abundant reason to adhere to it, might nevertheless not conclude now. that War could be made with advantage: he might think otherwise, in proportion to the.con vielion of his mind at the time he oppose did the Peace.' He might be the less readtto catch 'at War now Irian lie was then, because he might be of opi. •nion that we had lost the opportunity which might have been then afforded, -and therefore persons tertaieing the opinions which he did, would consider thia as a very serious matter, An Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Fox) had often said, , that no evils could be stated which were equal to the evils of War. Ha believed that •it now began to be snspeCied, perhaps felt, that there were dangers in Peace as well as in War, and they might go on as ra. picily too. in that state as the, evils' of War, and might lead a. Country into :that state in which no- War could stop them. Now he would beg leave to observe to the Noble Lord who spoke last, that there was a double responsibility attached to a Mi. , sister, that of making an improper Peace, and also that of making an imp ro p er . War ; the danger of the . one might in some cases, be equal to the danger of the other. Consigning this, as he did, ,completely to His Majesty's Ministers, he could only remind them of .their responsibility, and that it applied to either side, the alternative of Peace or War. Mt. SHERIDAN said, that there was something very extraordinary in the speech of the Right Hon. 'Gentleman' who had just sat down. That Rt. Hiin. Member had stated, that he might feel an extreme relUttince in agreeing to a War at present, that lie had been a vehement opposer of the Peace, 'and that by beingio, lie was necessarily reludant to our now going to war. He understood the Right lion. Gentleman by this to mean, that this Country had, by agreeing' to the Peace o incapacitated itself from going to War. The Right Hon. Gentleman had also said, that we were not now able to renew the War ;' he had even stated, that we were not now able to.defend ourselves. Such language had certainly been held by the First Consul of +ranee, but he, did not exreci to hear it re-echoed by any 'Member of the British House of 'Commons. This Country had'observed great moderation and for beatance, in order to maintain Peace, but if re. pealed insults and provocations rendertdit neces. sary for us to go to War; single-hatided its we were, yet he had the most: perfect confidence that we., should. be able , to cOnvince France that we were capable of supporting our honour and dignity, and' that each Individual in this,. Country would he ready to follow- the illuatrious example of His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, in .determining to forego every consideration of personal convenience or accommodation, when the interest of the Coun try was,at stake, and, with fortitude and magnani.. miry to preserve the Country in that state which he was sure had not been injured by' our modera tion.. Mr. WINDHAM. said, that the Hon. Gentle. man bad impute& to Itint that which he hail, never said, for he had giverr no decided opinion whether this Country ought. to go to war or not. Mr. CANAING said, it was highly necessary, whether the result was War or Peace, that the House Should know if the explanation given this day Was all the explanation the House and the Country were to have: lie waited till that moment, because he was not willing to suppose the existekee of any dis. ability on the part of His MajestYis, Ministers to give a proper explanation, till after a full opportu. pity. biid been afforded thew. It had been said by I the iiiitie - titott of the tliai in the eVent of. War,-,the .fullest .explanation:lhould, be inade ; het that was not sufficient ; it sirsisnecesiary the ground - of, this inest alartnio; communication - should be explained ,to its very foundation.--It was. a measure, compared with which, any thing in big memory was.. triiiy t ; and ,unimportant—it had planned and agitated the minds of all the people of the Country, ;and yet he had not" heard that -the' 1 m14 1 105t communication as to the cause which had produced it was.to be laid before the House. He did not mean to detain the 'House - with 'comment ing upory.the Message of His Majesty, but it did seem to him to behard to be thus dealing with the feelings of a generous people, jt was not that degree ofcommunication whicli ought to exist be tween the Executive GoVernment,and the People: There had beers shewn in the two feverish and anxi. ous. years which had. last passa, - , that there. had been a docility in the minds of the people to adopt the impression of the Executive Government. Those - feelings ought not to be met by.a reserve,- which he would venture to say, the most despotic Govern ment never maintained, towards's!rhe most enslaved People. .He did not believe there:ever was an event in the World which had- produced a greater sensa tion than theone announced yesterday, or one which • had ever been less expeded. It it should announce, that a communication would, at all events 'be Made, and that it was intended to be sufficient, ample, and sasisfadory ; its such case,. the few observations he had made would have been thrown away. He trial waited with impatience, but hut heard the inten.. Lion ola Communication to Parliament announced only in the'tvent . of one alternative. Not that it could make the least alteration as to the Vote, li. miledand understood as it was ; he only meant to infer, that it was nut a proper modetO - be 2dr:tined towards the Country, considering the uniform de. claratiotis of its Loyalty. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in explanation, alluded to what had fallen from a Right Hon. Member (Mr. CANN 1 NG), •OR bad stated, that no information had been promised to the House, except in the alternative of .War, And that no communication would have been'made, but in that event. He begged leave to stare, that lie . had given no pledge whatsoever ; but this he would say, that whatever might the the event,' he ed the reserve which had been imputed to him, and that he never would withhold any communication from Parliament upon any subjed relative to the .publie interest, .which might be communicated with a due regard to 'that interest. AIr.T.GRENYILLE rose, to 'make a few ob.. servations uptin what had 'fallen froth a Right Hon Gentleman respeding the Answer which had been given by the Minister. He admitted that, which he was very sure was felt by every Member in' that House, that upon such a subject as this there ought to be no dissenting voice, but a question had been put to the Ministers, whether, in anratterna. tive, eXcept that of War, they intended to lay any information. bel - ore .the.Hottse To. this question the an swer was, that no pledge whatever had been given upon the suhied. Now he could not help observing, thoethe.very mode in- which this answer had been given, was a satisfactory justification:-of the Hon. 'Member who had put the question. Hay ing ssid tittti'Mtreti, beg - ged to obseive, 'that no man was more unwilling than himself tti enter into . any °discussion whatever that could operate to re, . raed, or even to throw a shade upon the Resolution which had been proposed. He did feel a great deal 11 of embarrassment on his mind as to the ignorance in which thelioust. Was placed on .this occasion ; for when Government proposed to the House an Ad. dress, which the Right Hon. Gentleman had de. scribed as containing no pledge whatsoever, yet the House must be supposed to be pledged. in the customary manner to the fads to which they as, seated. He could not help remarking, ,that if on the one hand unanimity was felt to. be, so desirable, yet on the other the effed of it would he consider_ ably lessened in the eyes of alle ntankind, if the present Vote did not. convey the tangible opieion of every man in that House ; for so it must be, when the House voted an Address Without any informa tion respeding fads. - With these few remarks he should conclude, assuring the !louse that there MIS . no man in it mare ready or eager he was to carry up to the Throne the Ausseet contained in the present Address. His mind was certainly stn pressed with sentiments' of great anxiety upon this subject, but he trusted that the measures now pro posed would be of a' nature to produce peace and tranquillity. . , • The ATTORNEY-GENERAL 'said, he could, , not be surprized that any Gentleman' who concurred in the vote should wish to lay in his - protest against giving any pledge as to the future sentiments.he might think proper to adont, lie thought nothing could be more reasonable, than that at a time when a _Message of this sort was brought from the Throne, And when the: iI()LISe,WaS called upon to express its thanks for the gracious communication,' those ,Gen. tlemen who were 'of opinion the statement was not sufficient to justify the War, shoald lay its their claim to express their semi scents, whatever they Alight he, on a future occasion ;;.but he could not help thinking, that the House had no reason to deem ,ItSelf hardly dealt with, by inforinaiiim being kept back, when in lad,','no information had been called " for, and when the qUestibn to be consiAeted Only a communication' from the Throne, stating .there were certain 'measures which tendered it ne. Cessafy for us to make defensive preparations and hold , ourselves on our guard, and when it was ex pressly stated too, thava satisladory cononunica. 'ion would, In due time be made to Parlianient. The Hon. Member who had Jest spokehactsaid the Message seemed, to augur well, because it manifested' a disposition to exertion ; buthe thougifflie might as well have .spared that observation - it inferred, that no conclu`siOn- the House should adopt could be too violent. With resped to' what had fallen from a Right Honourable Gentletnan behind him (Mr. CANNING) he answered him 'a little premature, as to the disposition he had anticipated of His Ma jesty's Ministers- withholding- any ornatunication upon the subjed. There• had been no disposition expressed by-His Majesty's Ministers, that in the event of War being 'unnecessary, no- informanion 'would be laid befOte the House. Whether such in- formation shoidd be laid befune tilt 'Kowa, ingsi- ,send upon eiretiniStancei: When it Oias ?lessen tit would be ih 7 the powet of ;last Member to detnand if, and the Hob: 1i; If It proper, would t nlnrce its produCtion: He set-p.!:-; not prolong the Debate, except by tit:CritidniwA , one circumstance. The Honourable Gentleara•i he had mentioned seemed td have recurred to the opinion he had expressed, respecting the ea.: ;amities piOdticed by the conclution of t he Defi nitive 'treaty of .Peace of Amiens; on the groun4 that it'was calculated to promote a war ; nnd that, in the event of this Country going to War, we shOuld he so crippled, that the circumstance Of having had Peace would be attended with the - effeA of render. ing a futitre War more diffictrft: He *holly agreed with him. niaietained, that the opinion of the People at large, going along with tl - fe opinioo of Government, upon a question so important as the present One j was infinitely mote to be eonsidered than the precise state of the proportion of ninitaty force, referring to, the period when the Peuti Ives concluded. If it should ultimately ,ttlin out, t 'be oh I iged to renov fiostiliz ties, the Government, he had atO doubt, Would be' able to state to the House, that ihosellostilities had not been provoked, aod.that they Could not, by any proper, temperate, and honourable conduct, be pre. vented. IfFlkMajesty'i Ministers should lay before the House this state of the case, he was persuaded that the spirit 'of the country would be is unison "With that which- aetuated His Majesty's-Ministers* and that the absOlute necessity of tertewirtg ho4tili ties;Would give enure stteng,tll, vigour, and energy to those which should be undertaken, than could pos. sibly a beimparted, by preserving the exit& miatary position of a particular period. lie trusted the House would think the- question was left open to discussion, 'and- that whatever the measures of Go ‘fernalent, had been, they would he fully inquired into. lie hUped Oarliament and the Country would not be too fond of Peace—an unstable, delusive Peace. He trusted they, would not be indueed. to think, that nothing short of an attack on the Coun try would justify "Hostilities. He flattered himself they would bring their niinds temperately to the discusiton of the subjed; and to the consideration of--whether His Majesty's Ministers had. aded, wisely in taking the course they had done with regard to both these points ; he was persdaded 'there 'could -be no material difference of 'opinion on generallrounds ; and. respeaing, the question immediately before the House, nothing was pro. posed, than that supposing the case to be ex+ aCtly as it was stated in His Majesty's Meline g the House should pledge itself thus far. and no far. cher ; that it. should admit it ,to be a case which justified Military Preparations, but nothing . .more: if afterwards it --should appear th at t h e ctrcu:n. stances and situation, of the. Country did not justify the present application, it would properly be a Suit. jea for future consideration, To give His 'Wok:sty an assurance of our determination to guard itgitinse surprise, was all the House was ar present called upon to hetrusted, therefore, there could be DO reasonable ground of complaint on the one hand, and that on the other there:would be no . teltidanee In - giving further itlforfnation. The questions was put, and carried in the affiraia. tive. Nernine clntradirente. ADDITION .Q SEAMEN. The . CHANqt,I,LOR of the .ExcHNo grt'e no tice,.that on Friday near, in the Conunittee of SUN ply, he should move fur an increase . of to,Ooci Sea. men and Marines.. • - The I-louse resolved itself into a Cointrlittee of the whole Hottie, - on.the Irish Revenue Aets. Mr. C.dRRY said, several Hon." Gentlemen hid inade:amobjeaion to the.Schedtile, as well as com plained, that the time for taking the same into c o n.., Sideration was too' short. As to the Schedule, ht assured the Committee, that it had been tfra'wn ttis by very able persons ; who had been furnished with the Iwo materials fur the purpose. ; and that he had taken considerable pains to have it as' eorrea nfi posssible ; yet there might be ttifling errors which he should be glad to see correaed. With respen the notice: which hadheen given, and which kitTord. ed time for, the consideration of its merits, he must be permitted' to observe, that he bid given notito of his intention two Seisions-ago, Which tie thought was' quite; long' fur the investigation of the subjeasnow before them. He therefore, hoped, there would be as little delay as possible, as Much had ready been said on the subjeat; and.arit Was tho wish of-Several Hon. Genttemen, he had, no:objec.. riots, to the Taxes being ow voted in the usn , ray for one year, as it had hitherto been usual, reservior, to himself the privilege of renewing his present proposition, to make them permanent in the present Session, if it should be thought necessary to adopt such a proceeding, As it appeared, however ; to be . the opinion of - sever a l Gentlemen who represen t ed that part of the United Kingdom to' which this Bill particularly referred, that a further time should be -given,. for the consideration of this subjcet„ he certainly should not objeit ro it. In bringi t , forwaidthis•subjeft, he only adeti in pursuance or :the notice he hadgiven, and the discharge of that ,which he considered to be his duty. But if there renuined any doubt in the mind of any Gentleman, -with reipe4 to the notice he had given, he should certainly conceive himself bound to adopt the line 'of conduit which he, now did, namely, to vote the ..1~ s for one year, as it had hitherto been done, instead of permanently. He coneludzd with mov. ing the Resolotioh for the continuance:of the: Duties for one year. Mr. iPICKII,IM said 'lle was of opinion that the time had biri sLlSEciencl. , long under all the circumstances of stile cite,. to investipte the merits of thr.subjed and he thought every respe& was due to the Gentlemen mho had paid so much wen 'lion to the business. of their constituents. Mr: said he approved of the Taxes being annual, instead Llf being:noted permanently, awl h shoold.tonsider hiteseii bound to bring Tor. ward the question a future period, to Make smile alterations io the ScleclAt. He hoped" th. o I - lan, .Gentleman would send a printed Sehedu3e to thfri;?.,it: 14erchants of, different towns Lfl Ireland, bo tIAS they may he able to judge of the sulljeCt. A Mtgnut, w ho s e ,name eve could not 1m.,4f.: saia, he hoped torte svoulA be settle atterati**6 mxts betore they were'made permanent,. • Autss said a few , winds. • ~4. :~-_. .. ~':~.:r.;:~