The Sun. — London, England, 1844-05-08 00:00:00

r 4 11 P - ..4. .--,r.e. THE WELSH CHURCH. (FROM A CORRESPONDENT.) " We do hear them speak in our tongues the won tierful work s o f God.' What a glorious opening scene, and how gloriouly continued on. " S ound is gone out into all lands."—" There is neither t + leech nor l anguage b ut t h e i r vo i ces are h ear d among ", e rn."—Es en th e di s t an t i so l ate d B r it on re j o i ce d in t he heavenly privilege, and his descendants have en 'vd it as th e i r r i ghtful inheritance to the presen t ea s , , • But, ala s ! h ere we are f orce d t o s t o p. A Briton s has come over t h e i r f ortunes ; an d w h en th ose 1 3 ritons now stand forward to hear the joyful tidings in their t ongue wherein they were born, they meet ; . it .:; an unqualified refusal. " No," says the Church Kingland, " you shall hear no such things unless ° I learn English." oess,e,ssehort tim e ago we a d verte d to th e prac ti ce i n the theof Llandaff, of denyi n g the communion service o i h ge poor in th e i r na ti ve t ongue , a nd the many li unchristi an p rac ti ces concurren t w ith that ; nd as such p rac ti ces must b e t oo no t or i ous t o esca pe Public animadversion, it may be asked why the age th.erd parties do not remonstrate and memorialise iv e l , ll43 ,hop on the subject.. Memorialise . the Bishop ! Atil,‘tur_yiea.tn.eed,has been memorialised, expostulated with, .implored, supplicated upon the subject. What said on the part of the Bishop? Why, Ghat he is pastor pastorum, and not pastor populi ; 11 The %,.ith these scraps of Latin the matter is dismissed. 13 , ishop does his work by deputy, and the people —' f 411.1 as they were. Deputyisin and sinecurism : 1 ,,r 11 1 the vital air of the Ch urc h o f E ng land. They ti , e the oxy gen an d hydrogen of its constant respira i 11 , only that to thi s com bi nat i on i s a dd e d anot h er ngredient of no less gen-ral diffusion, and that is 74 ,„P'.! ti8 nt• This is the laughing gas of the Establish -el.""t• It was this principle that operated so effica ,tuts,l.vin the recent arrangements in . the palish of th- "il, and produced the usual fruits there. In _ er s parish the peopl e were accu-toined to hear tee eliti,•tryzat:tloyhe Chur c h in their native Welsh langlr'gc; the Navineginningof the present yearthe Welsli th e 'lig left, it was contrived that through ', a j a r °r some little reciprocities between influ cisioan.e,,et;p4sostiesrri in this di ocese and others on the English , with ou t i n th e l eas t cons ulting the emence of the parishioners, an English clergyman as placed here totally ignorant of the Welsh lad getliagv, and who, of course, withheld from them their teestomary service. Upon this the parishioners de _ rtnined upon addressing the Bishop, and accordingly 4 , P!±titin e Was drawn up to the following effect, and delivered to the Bi.-hop the Right - Reverend the Lord Bishop of - aridaft .. ]ti" We, the undersigned inhabitants of the parish of ei m ,mlaid in the county of Monmouth, and diocese ° I - . 1 14 ,°,claff ' , hUmbly beg permission to state to your &c. And here they proceed to say that p ar t t ne e 4 been accustomed . to have the service of their hurch performed in their native Welsh lan shiegei and that the congregation was often very con imerdable, but . that in consequence of the . change al us to it was continually diminishing, and was thatreduced to seven individuals ; and then they added . f such practice was persisted in, they had no the ir parish but to absent themselves altogether from , 11 7'r parish church, and seek some other place of wor 4, where they could hear the word of Gaki in their t "gue, and concluding with a prayer that the I ,, c) P Would redress their grievances. ould it not be natural to suppose that such an Would be immediately attended to ? But no. p o ti c i astor pastorum had nothing to do with this vox d • Week aft er week passed away, and nothing that one ; and the last we heard of Mamhilad was, ( 1 4, , !he seven tenacious churchmen had at last dwin aei Whether those five have followed their th a lnbour s we know not ; but this we are assured of, par , .iiere is a Dissenting chapel to be erected in the tla.".e.r,l,he.rtowirlich a popular and eloquent Welsh he appointed ; and the swarm which has % . 6 t i he old hive will be better housed, and if not more L u e ," lo y, at least more bountifully fed. sy,te me other fact, not less characteristic of the al so 4 1 1 is, that t hi s same English clergyman has been jac eti P t a4 " l as minister t o th e ne w ch u rch in the ad- A A(111 iron works, i n th e m id s t o f a W e l s h- spea ki ng S s ,i t.t at i°°, under th e patronage o f t h e P astora l Aid susp ec t Little do the contributors to that charity It 110 w their money is applied. not ma y be asked, where will all this end ? We do sttivPeossess the faculty of second sight, but with such fe w . esr ea uses before us we will venture to predict a e uets, ilects, and in so doing we shall announce a few e s , a Probably new in certain quarters. There is Will I ' s ‘v a decree gene forth from the Vatican that tsib ut r i e long visit this nefarious system with the re this a tribune, it so righteously deserves : for there are at Catho,'?rnent.preparing for the ministry in a Roman well h seminary a number of young Welshmen, qa ett ac euaint e d w i th the language, talented, elo arranylnen, devoted to their creed, who, as soon as jaelselnents are comp l e t e , w ill b e sent out i nto t h e khiit P. 4 lity as missionaries and parish priesas ; and, liish mere, there i s ac t ua lly a W e l-h C at h o li c his 1.5,P,'1S dente far Wales; yea! and he will fix Pal a :' ° enee in th e an cient see of Llandaff; yea, his that " 4 cathedral are already planned out, and 14 1 „ 1 " °O l in a style of magnificence worthy of the suffer 4n ee of his charge, where, surreunded by his istar s ,g 4ll3 and coa dj u t ors , h e w ill complete the or- Tb""° ,l which hi s Ch urc h i s so co mpertnt to design. Chun Chur e h of Rome was once expelled by the kndersto °r . ,England for not ministering in a language exile by the People. Three hundred years of ther rival her wisdom. We shall see her en afi rivalrith the same weapons, and most pro es`n3 not without Jared effect. " See," she will say to the 2 0 7. (1 E insChur c h u L lte( s i peaple of Wales, pointing to the Sour of g'4ll(i' "Seeheartless _ cries. m how that false, Coyouers famishes your souls and mocks 4 4 ye to me, and be ye comforted . And when this takes places, who is to 4% it the Lo battle in defence of the Protestant faith ? bt)gl at , du erlPPled, crutched, and dotaged Church of 41e /ne Will she resist the march of mighty as,.aterl+nen she comes forth in the vigour of her re es Youth ? Is it the fashion-ridden Anglicised Fy of ala, thatthe Establishment, who preach to bare Pro ßre:i _gt will direct the popular feeling and stay the re 4 .nf the enemy ? No; if the encroachment is 4 4 th sis ,ted at all, it is not by the Church of Eng tii:tt it ill be done, but by her deadly enemies, are ilse sent ers• And in that conflict, if the Dissenters the s e ir ls a e t t e t d e i r t s h p e r C ev h a u il r , ch of England is gone; but if that very success will establish httr e i l il • l supremacy, and be equally fatal to the Lo, thi s is our prediction 4.11•11.111 4 311 .1. 7 , 1 t 4l ''''gxt, A cEns. It is a matter of great surprise h t " 44 (11,.. - 41 t erk or business in the city, that, notwithe 11 - ?..e r. t r . ;.,? l ,_ e . , , ihnutn era bl e warnings which the public ttiq s T " , through the Press, against intrusting ti„, fi r money to persons unknown, and n l 'PeatPci convictions which have taken " Q er e , 14 the cases of bill-stealers, and the c ti i. ll ,. 4 ts, -r t il h p tt nees whii-h have beenpassed upon the delta. ~- THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY MORNING, MAY 8, 1844. President of the Board of Control, had not felt it con- t sistent with his duty to produce those papers. The Earl of WINCHILSEA concurred in the regret expressed by the Noble Lord who spoke last. He thought the Board of Directors would, on consideration, repent the step they had taken. If the policy pursued by Lord Ellenborough was condemned by the Board of Directors, would they have concurred in the appoint ment of a member of the same party, and of the same Cabinet, to succeed him ? Lord CAMPBELL said that nothing could be more unfortunate than 'the course pursued by the Government on this occasion. It was condemned by all parties. • It was condemned by the supporters of the Government, the personal friends of the Noble Lord (Lord Ellenborough), and it was condemned by those who disapproved of their po licy. Ile regretted that the Government had not thought fit to produce those papers, because the Government al ready, in the person of the Noble Duke, had pro nounced a heavy censure on the Court of Directors. As to the appointment of Sir H. Hardinge he could not concur with the Noble Earl who spoke last, that it showed the contrition of the Court of Directors. He thought the Court of Directors were treated very hardly by the Noble Earl and his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack, when they spoke of the Court of Di rectors as if they were now doing penance in sackcloth and ashes, and making amends by the appointment of Sir H. Hardinge. He approved of the appointment of Sir H. Hardinge, because he did not think he would follow in the footsteps of Lord Ellenborough—that they would have no such proclamations from him as they had ha'l: about the gates of Somnauth. With respect to the act of indiscretion, as it was called, which the Court of Directors had committed, he (Lord Campbell) thought it a most felicitous act of indiscretion. He would say, with Hamlet— " Our indiscretions oft-time serve us well When our deep plots do fail." Lord NORMANBY inquired if all the dispatches which had been received relative to the affairs of Sinde and Gwalior had been communicated to the Court of Directors ? Earl RIPON was not sure that he could exactly answer the question. He thought. with regard to Sinde, that no papers had bean communicated to the Court, except those which had been laid before the two Houses of Parliament. With respect to Gwalior, all the pagers, whether of importance or not, which had been received in the course of last summer, and up to autumn, were, at the request of the Secret Committee, laid before the Court. _ IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Mig 7. Their Lordships met at Five o'Clock. SAVINGS' BANKS. Lord MONTEAGLE said he had to call the atten tion of the Government to a statement that had appeared in one of the papers of that day, which it was necessary, in justice to himself and the Government, and also, what was more material than either, tee public in terest, that he should notice. Their Lordships were aware, from the Votes of the other House of Parliament, that a Bill had been introduced by the Government fur the purpose of reducing; the interest on savings' bank stock. Of course it would be unbecoming to discuss a question then pending in the other House of Parliament, but he might say, in passing, that he approved of the ob jects of the Bill, and considered its principle to be per fectly right. It would be absurd on the part of the public to pay a rate of interest on the de posits in savings' banks which had been fixed at a greater amount than the rate of interest which now pre vailed in the market. But !he interest of the depositors was a critical 'Latter to deal with. They were a nume rous class, and many of them were probably not very well informed on the subject ; they were apt to take alarm, ebeee all, when suggestions were made to them calculated to excite that feeling. The state ment he referred to, arising probably from misap prehension, e as calculated greatly to impede the object the Government had in view, as well as to create alarm on the part of depositors in savings' banks, and consequently to prejudice the public interest, and much more to prejudice the interests of the depositors themselves. It was mainly in consideration of the in terests of the depositors themselves that he took the liberty of bringing this matter under the considera tion of their Lordships as soon as possible. Their Lordships were aware that, during the period he had the honour of being the Chancellor of the Exchequer, a purchase of Exchequer bills e as made by the Trustee; of Savings' Banks, which bills were afterwards funded in the three per Cent. stock. This was not a time to defend that mode of procedure. The Noble Duke opposite knew perfectly well that that pro ceeding was eerfectly in am irdaece with the existing law, under the Act of 1828, which gave the Goveinment the power of mak ing such investments. The statement he referred to was this: "If it should be found that the funds inve;ted in savings' banks have been seriously in jured by the jobbing that prevailed during the time the Whigs held office, the parties interested will be entitled to compensation, and have all the circumstances duly considered in any new arrangement it may be necessary to make." It further appeared by the statement, that interest amounting to 680,000 1 ., representing a capital of 2,000,0001. or 3,000,000/. ster ling, had been lost by these proceedings. He need not assure their Lordships that no such loss had been sus-, tained ; the statement was altogether fallacious. If any loss were sustained it would not fall on the depositors. To them the public faith was pledged, and every depo sitor was entitled to receive the full amount of his de posit, whatever might be the loss sustained by the sale of stock. If this were not the case there wonld be no se curity for savings' banks. If an early opportunity were net taken of contradicting such a statement an alarm would have been raised which would have caused a run on every savings' bank in London ; and, there fore, he had thought it right to bring the matter under the consideration of their Lordships.—(Hear.) DEBTOR AND CREDITORS' BILL. Lord BROUGHAM, in proposing the secend reading of this Bill, said that its object was to remedy a great defect in the law, which enabled a debtor, with his cre ditors' consent, to effect a composition as soon as he found insolvency approaching. Under present circum stances, unless all the creditors agreed the composition could not be effected, and in consequence there was a great premium for a few of these to hold oat against the rest of the creditors, in order that they might ultimately buy up the interest. of' the parties whom they opposed. That defect would be remedied by the present Bill. Lord COTTENHAM had no objection to the second reading being now taken, provided that so doing would not pledge their Lordships to the principle of the Bill. The Bill was then read a second time. Lord CAMPBELL, in the absence of his Noble Friend, Earl Gosford, presented several petitions from differen parts of Ireland relative to the Presbyterian marriages. RECAL OF THE GOVERNOR-GENERAL OF INDIA. Lord NORMANBY rose, pursuant to notice, to take the first opportunity on which they had the pleasure of seeing his Noble Friend the President of the Board of Control in his place, to put a question on the subject of the correspondence of the Board of Directors of the East India Company with her Majesty's Government. Under the peculiar circumstances in which he meant to put this question to his Noble Friend, it was neces sary for him to make a few preliminary observa tions. He might be more strictly in order in moving for the production of those papers, but at the same time, now, as hitherto, he had every reason to be lieve that those papers would be produced by her Majesty's Government, and if not, the refu to pro duce them could only be based upon ore ground, which, if stated en the responsibility of his Nob.e Friend, he (the Marquis of Normanby) should not be prepared to resist. He thought, then, it would be more convenient if he ads )pied the 11101 e inf 'rural but more usual course of putting a question, making at the same time a few observations on the subjec.-matter. %Vile,' certain opinions were pronounced in teat House in answer to a tuiestion from hie Noble Friend on the subject, he (the Marquis of Normanby 1 thought that the immediate con-equence would be the pro,inetion of ail the corres pondence so as to enable the House to form a judgment on the matter. On that occasion he stated that he regretted that of those ofatt i t had t, sheo though ga t.t an thth p•hertsh. ey yeedrNiea Noble n e nbolaet Duke r a p • a .set s da t rt o eod t : he giavte p rod uction , athne tim t. imme diate answer, yet that Parliament had an undoubted right to the fullest information on the subject. (Expressions of dissent from the Duke of Welengton.) tie (the Marquis of Normanby) bad certainly so under stood the Noble Duke. Ile might also allude to what passed on another occasion, in another place, when two of the Hon. Gentlemen connected with the administra tion of Indian affairs, stated that they hoped, in spite of what had passed in their Lordships' House, public opinion would be suspended till the papers were produced ; and her Majesty's Prime Minister, in answer, stated that he was not prepared at once to produce the papers. He (the Marquis of N ormanby) might therefore infer that up to that time no conclusive reason was entertained by the parties interested against the production of those papers; at the same time, if his Noble Friend opposite should state that the production of those papers at the present moment would be detrimental to the public service, he should not press for their production. He regretted that such decided censure had been pronounced on the conduct of certain parties in the affair, though he must state that his regret was by no means inconsistent with the high respect which he as well as the rest of their Lordships all bore to the Noble Duke who pronounced that censure. However, as a deliberative assembly their Lordships should protest against any weight being attached to that censure. He thought that they were bound, not only as members of a deliberative assembly, but as the highest court of judicature in this country, to hear before they con demned.—(Hear.) If there were any strong objection to the production of those papers, he should feel his re gret at the premature expression of opinion on the part of the Noble Duke very much increased.—(Hear.) The power of the Court of Directors to recal the Governor- General had existed more than half a century, and the present was the first time that any collision between the Board and the Government had taken place. Now, he would ask, was there anything in the constitution of the Court (ef Directors which might elan:: them to take views adverse to the present Go might be that the Directors had judged improperly of the conduct of the Noble Lord (Ellenborough)—it might be that they did not give the Government a sufficient notice. On the last point, however, they had been given to understand, that the Government had had full sev , :.n or eight months' notice. Therefore the indiscretion of the Directors (for so it had been called) wanted one quality which usually attended indiscretion—rashness. He repeated, in conclusion, what he had before said, that if, in the opinion of the Government, it would be inexpedient to furnish the papers, he would not press for them. In that case, however, he must be permitted, as a matter of justice, to say . that that House could not . entertain a shadow of suspicion of the propriety of the conduct of the Directors, till an opportunity was afforded of placing the whole case before that House and the country. The Earl of RIPON said he deeply regretted that he had been hindered by illness from attending to his duties when the Noble Marquis was first desirous of putting his question to him. However, he was then ready to state his views as to the production of the papers asked for, though before doing so he must say that the Noble Marquis had introduced the matter in a most fair, candid, and reasonable spirit. And he thought he had acted much more conveniently by bringing it forward as he had done, than by submitting a more forinal motion on the subject. He mugti say, however, that feeling a deep sense of the duty and rasp,nsibility which attached to him and the Government, Ministers were unable to consent to the production of the papers. He believed their production would be the cause of great injustice to the Noble Lord who had been recalled —of great embarrassment to the Right Hon. Gentle man who was about to proce,-d there—and would be most injurious to the best interests of the ser vice. Therefore he must, though reluctantly, decline ; tor all the papers ought to be fur nished, or none of them ; and to do this at present would be alike unfair to individuals and injurious to the service. To produce part of the papers would be ob viously unsatisfactory, though it would not be possible for bun to say shy, because he should then be ding incidentally that which he felt it his duty to decline to do directly. He therefore declined to produce these papers, and the same consideration led him to decline entering on the matters' alluded to by his Noble Friend. But he would take the liberty of saying this, that however he might regret the step taken by the Board of Directors —or, how ever inconsistent he might have thought it with the course which he considered advisable to take, he was nevertheless bound to say, and lie did.say, that he was entirely con vinced that the Court of Directors, in taking the course they did, were influenced by no other motive than an honest and sincere conviction on their part that they were doing what their duty called them to do. In saying that he (lid justice to their motives, but expressed no opinion on their policy, if he was ready to du justice to them for the motives which had _influenced their course, he hoped he might ask their Lordships to do justice to him and her Majesty's Government, by believing that they had been influenced by no other considerations than these in the course which they had taken, and which obliged them to refuse their concur rence to the step of the Board of Directors. As he could not consent to the production of the papers he thought it better not to risk any discussion on the suiiject by enter ing into any of the other topics which had been alluded to by the Noble Marquis. With respect to the production of the papers at another time, he thought nothing was more unwise than to pledge oneself on a sulliect of that kind, and he must decline doing so. Lord BROUGHAM entirely concurred with what had fallen from the Nob!e Lord, but he felt bound to state succinctly his opinion on the course the Govern ment had pursued. The Government was charged with indiscretion. The Noble Duke opposite, the least indis creet of human beings, was charged for the first time, he would venture to say, in the course of his long and illus trious life, with indiscretion for having pronounced an opinion on a question, the materials for forming an opinion on which were not before the House or the public. In justice to the Noble Duke and the Governor- General, they should recollect the position in which the Government was placed. They were called on by the acts of the Directors to pronounce an opinion, because if they did not they would have adopted that act as their own. It was easy for the Board of Directors to say, as he heard they did say, that they were responsible for the peace of India, but somebody else would have been re sponsible besides the Directors, if the Government had adopted their policy. Before sitting down, he must re mark on the highly satisfactory appointment of the Gallant Officer who was about to proceed to the govern ment of India—an observation most favourable to Lord Ellenborough arouse out of this appointment, as the Board of Directors had unanimously concurred in the appointment of Sir Henry Hardinge. They had se lected Sir H. Hardinge for the purpose of censuring the conduct of his predecessor—of rescinding all he had done so gloriously—the Court of Directors must say that they chose Sir H. Hardinge for the purpose of act ing diametrically opposite to the purpose, of acting dia metrically opposite to the policy of Lord Ellenborough, or they had chosen the very man who was most certain to pursue the very saute course. Why did he say so ? Because Sir 11. Hardinge was a near connexion of the Noble Lord—in fact, his brother-in-law—because he was the bosom friend of that Neb'e Lord, and because he s+ as a member of the present Government, which hacl disapproved of the recal of Lord Ellenborough.—(Hear, hear.) It was then clear that it was not from any dis approval of the policy of Lord Ellenborough that that Noble Lord was recalled, but from a more insignificant and merely personal motive. He was glad, then, that it had appeared that no condemnation of Lord Ellenbo rou_lt's policy was the cause of his removal, as that would be the most comple e preventive of any mis chievous consequences resulting to Indian affairs from that measure. The Duke of WELLINGTON hoped, as tte Noble Marquis had adverted to what occurred there on a former evening, that he might be allowed to shy a few words. In the first place, he begged to observe that, when he spoke on that occasion, he did not entertain any intention of interfering with the privileges of the Court of olAi er)trgioruniei;cssot)ou rememberedrcs s e o u o or f fs e t p h a e i rnl E i at aamhsneeti their th n :L d n : ovg a hr doCe ships' o ihei pse pa sr,( n t ahr y oye Du Isquef Duke t ee h sa e otni fo N dm rn o t b rehe l l e e z s u p eg ec u t i i t ng him lnd o i f a o n ri a g ff in a a ir ti s ng wa a s ny br m ou e g a h s t ur f e orw w a h r i cl oh , h w e ou ssio d u b ld e det W henrimental u t b o j e t e h t e i nf n m t e b r e e s fo t sr before t f h t e h e t, E o u a s s Ind e t had been a before their Lordships on a former occasion, he (the Duke of Wellington) thought it his duty to ex press his opinions on the subject, and he thought he had expressed them as moderately as possible. There could be no doubt respecting the power of the Directors. He had shown when the power was given— he had quoted the Act of Parliament. But he stated at the same time that it was a power which ought to be exercised with discretion; and he did give his reason for thinking that the power had not been exercised with discretion in this case.—(Hear, hear.) He did not think there was anything offensive in that expression, and nothing Auld be further from his thoughts than to say anything offensive to the Board of Directors. Still he thought that when any doubt was thrown upon the con duct of an officer holding one of the highest and most responsible situations under the Crown—and discharging his duties most meritoriously—(Cheers) —it was the duty of a person representing her Majesty's Government in that House to protect i the officer at a distance. He thad thought alreadyght proper stated to demand his opinion, thea r e thatso reasons why if theParliamentCourt h ad h of Directors had adopted that measure, the papers should be produced, unless there were reasons, as his Noble Friend stated, for considering that the production of them would be inconsistent with the public interest. The Marquis of NORMANBY, in explanation, said that he had not called for the papers on the very grounds that he thought that it might be considered inconvenient CHARITABLE BEQUESTS (IRELAND). The Marquis of NORMANBY said he had a motion fixed for Thursday next, for a Commission to inquire into the Board of Charitable Bequests and Donations in Ireland, and he was happy to learn that a Bill, regarding the constitution of that Board, was under the considera tion of her Majesty's Attorney-General. He would, therefore, beg to withdraw his notice of motion, as that Bill would answer all the ends he had iu view. RAILWAYS. Earl FITZWILLIAM said that, previous to his proceeding with the motion which he had on the paper, for an address to her Majesty, for the appointment of a Commission on the subject of railways, he wished to inquire of the Noble Earl whether it was the intention of the Government to assent to or negative his proposi tion. Until he had received an answer on that matter, he would not trouble their Lordships further. _ _ — Earl DALHOUSIE would state in a few words the reasons why Government did not think it right to accede at the present moment to the motion of the Noble Earl. The ground of their so doing was that the whole of this question had now for some time past been under the consideration of a Committee of the House of Commons. At a very early period of the session his Right Hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade had brought the question under the consideration of the House, when an instruction was moved to the Committee to consider all modes of providing for the public good with respect to railways. Three reports had already appeared from that Committee, and had been laid before Parliament. Two of those referred to the railways that came before Parliament this session, and the third took a wider range, and suggested very important alterations in the railway system. One of those related to providing car• lieges of a more commodious kind, and having seats in in them, for third class passengers. The present mode of keeping those passengers standing for twelve or six teen hours in a carriage, while making a journey that could have been made in seven or eight hours, was very discreditable to the companies that adopted such a course, and would be equally discreditable to the Legis lature if it permitted the continuance of that abuse. Care should be taken that there should be no evasion by the companies of the regulations on this score. Another recommendation of the Committee was, that it should be an indispensable condition of railway Bills in future, that the proprietors should consent, at the end of fifteen years from the time when the original Bill was passed— .they should submit to the alternative, in case their pro fits were above tcn per cent, to permit those profits to be reduced to that amount, but not below it, or allow the Government the option of purchasing the line for twenty five years' visible profits. He mentioned those things to show that the Committee of the House of Commons had entered in earnest into the consideration of the subject. Earl FITZWILLIAAI was glad he had taken the course 11..± had, but still he thought it doubtful whether, even after the labours of the Committee had been brought to a close, such a motion as that which he had on the paper would not be necessary. He would, how • ever, withdraw his motion. The motion was then withdrawn, and some priva'e Bills having been forwarded a stage, the House ad journed at Half-past Seven o'clock. • HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 7. • the SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. LEEDS AND BRADFORD RAILWAY. - On the motion for the further consideration of the report on the Bill. Mr. MACKINNON moved that the report be consi dered that day six months. Mr. LASCELLES seconded the motion. Mr. YORKE supported the Bill. He thought im proper methods of influencing the Hon. Members on the question bad been resorted to. Sir E. COLEBROOKE thought the opposition to the Bill came at a rather late stage, and that the House was called upon, under the circumstances, to confirm the de cision of the Committee. Mr. STUART supported the motion. After a short conversation the House divided, when there appeared— For the amendment Against it, Majority for the Bill, —66 The report was then ordered to be taken into further consideration. After a few observations from Mr. M. Philips, Mr. S. Wortley, Mr. C. Wood, Lord Howick, and Mr. Greene, Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to know how the House could do these parties justice by binding them to the absurd regulations of the Standing Orders. He thought the public interest ought to guide these proceedings, and he would propose, therefore, that the debate be adjourned, in order to see if the parties could not make out a case that would induce the House to re-commit the Bill, in order that the public should have the best line. The Hon. Member concluded by moving that the debate should be adjourned. The SPEAKER the,n amendments should be rea d- a - second t i me; an d a l so th e amendment of the Ho n . M em be r for F i ns b ury , t h a t th e debate be adjourned. put the question, that the Mr. LAWSON opposed the amendment. He thought it vms their duty to support the Standing Orders of the House. Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND thought there was no practice so . bad as that of excluding evidence, The ce e ,- er e -------- law now, in accordance with the increased intelligence (11 1 C , Ity or should be exhibited evidence of the vernment ? Certainly not. It was well•kno . wn that the to the publicservice to produce them. . e 4l , Itar y „ e ,Pe:•sons, in other respects, possessed of majority of the Court of Directors were of the same The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said that the of the age, admitted evidence more freely than it k et r ied ort"n sense. The practice of bill-stealing is political opinionswith her Majesty's present Government; Noble Duke and the late Governor-General of India had heretofore been accustomed to do. They were now to w TO an enormous extent in the west end ef the and it was natural to inquire what could be the cause ha i always been great advocates of the authority of the .Railroad arguing a case of the .exclusion of evidence before a Committee. Were they not, by giving such an ki : p a i l o'freare numbers of persons about the fashion- of their disagreement with the Government in this mat- Court of Directors—(Hear, hear)—and when the m Ileretehr.s.,, al the . metropolis se ho are designated "Bill 4114 ,1 p, 41:14 ( 0 , , bill agents. They form a kind of part- ter ?—(Hear.) He by no means thought that a ma- sure for limiting the powers of that body was proposeden- interpretation to j t u b s e t i i r ce 7tating . ) had jority of his fellow-countryinen were now in favour of by Lord Grey's Government in 1833, the Noble Duke.. a r t d h e e r h s, ig e h o a m u m th i o tt r i i n ty g three ity, The +l into each other s hands with much in- her error in puttinc , such an interpretation upon their Stand her Majesty's Ministers, but still it could not be denied supported by L or d Ellenborough, emp h a ti ca lly r esisted of their Chairman for saying that the House was in t o e ledi ei .V e hrtn lainsists, in each locality, generally of that they were backed by a majority of ninety in the measure, on the ground that it would give too muc . kitFeerfortn.utals, each of whom has a different character the other House of Parliament which had not power to the li e . P .." an etleY are called ' the bill macer," " the grab yet run through halt the t-rm of its existence. It could with the authority of the East India Company.—(Hear, whenever a railroad was projected, whatever injury Governor-General, and interfere too much tog Orders. It this interpretation were the true one, e af rorr e ,, ri, “ the buffing mater." The bill macer is the it might run, there would be the greatest diffi not be through hostility to the Government the Directors hear.) Ile would not attempt to-night to discuss the it might inflict on the . proprietors, through whose k at is to r beseatative of the peeuniary st rength of the firm, had acted . but it was said that it was through igno- conduct of Lord Ellenborough in India, but he must property the e ! is t o considered its the negotiator. The grab ranee of the facts. That was not the fact—(Hear, hear) sa y th a t a b e tt e r, or more j u di c i ous selection, could not culty in pro . ving that injury. 'lle should support the to `lgyer n , u" found constantly haunting coffee-houses —for the Secret Committee were not bound to conceal be made than the appointment of the Gallant Officer amendment i ll ( let e bitaoh theluok out for those who may be anxious such matters from the general holy of the Board. who w a s to succee d hi m . B u t r e verting to the subject Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the all 1. 44 t o in t r o genuine stiff," or good bills, di,counted, He had read over the statutes and the Charter, of Lord Ellenborough, he begged leave to say that they House divided, when theri-appeared -72 tetettrees mad duce theta to the bill-mater, who is at and he found that it was only on questions of war were not called upon, on that occasion, to judge the Of t tr is alb a dY to misappropriate ; and the buffing- the Committee was sworn to seereey. All questions of conduct of that Noble Lord. That was not under their Against it • 110 Pe ,e oth ei , a Ys in the way to be at the bcelt and call internal policy, and the appointments aid dismissals of Lordships' consideration. A high functionary had been Majority ti, -- vtisi on. °lacers, in order to swear to tee right of were then read a second time. For Mr. Duncombe's amendment servant,, civil and military, were entirely unconnected recalled, and a censure had been pronounced by the The amendments . r e , t g e t u gu r a n e . 0 turn er t il 0 thtahtatdah)e fortnight, h b t rin f g rr o h n e t pik °I) the f eat payment & part of the negetiat , T, and to the posi- with the oath of secresy. Was it possible that Parliament organ of the Gover nmen t on th e b o dy w hi c h h a d t a k en L or d ELIOT .. gave notlFetil a at a , TB on ailbl T utl u oa e ror sday l n t extir he % tee " , th e „, (): the amount, with deductien of the inte- should have given that power, and not retained to itself o n itself to make that recal. What Parliament just would move for leave to bring h e - oree lod "nlortuna t , ati o , ,- e person, w ho c a ,cul a tes upon the the means or knowing how the power was exercised ? now had to d . o, was, not to judge Lord Ellenborough, pike trusts in Ireland. each y' year ! ending k.l et thi s a `t 4 'r he has placed the security at the Suppose it wer e th e case o f sind e , o n account of which but to consider the conduct of the Government, and Dr. BOWRING gaVe ne.t a i ii ce 4h e ties are gal , g ~f thie v••s. It i- vi eil known that ;he arecters theught it n. cessare to recal of the Board of Directors of the East India Company. his motion on quarantine- foraort a e d " in i et4 v e de seri , every day perpetrate.' upon the system Lord Ellenhorough. Why should not Parliament be That the conduct of those Directors bad been so indis- Hon. Member also moied b uti tlie , flitr i' a ed ; and when a gentlemen happens to ;alla s, potato . es, informed what the instructions of the Government at creet he (the Marquis of Clanricarde) very much quantities of wheat,. flou . r m , me, barle hi i 5 ear to ingeniously laid and ailed upon, the home had been ? He perfectly agreed with the proprie doubted. The indiscretion, more probably, attached cattle, sheep, and pigs, 1 front 1835 to ( for th te tte a e to beat him by a circumstantial cletail in of deferring any opinion upon the conduct of the Go- elsewhere ; for it was admitted that six or seven months the sth day of January, r ~ into the k ee the 4° , 1 '1 Place and the number of sovereigns paid vern"r•Gelleral until he was there to defend him- ago the Directors bad expressed to the Government the Isle of Man ; exhibitingthe ave ra g e h a lso he Lon d erdi Pt . l atlee °tiat er always pays in gold) are sworn to, self.—(Hear, hear.) H e (L or d N orman h y ) h a d f e lt di ssa tisfaction which they felt. It appeared there was several species of corn -y, „, ?? 1 azette, and the 1 14 'd he i s thereon. Tabular return, for the Y nerv e i . prepared to act with mere than -in a smaller sphere the inconvenience of exercising no hope of the production of the papers during the . ses- average duties payable jItteeItAIVELLI ri his own defence. articles exported from the Isle important functions in a distant part of the empire, and s i o n. G ov ernment c harged th e East India Directors same years, of the same tee a"--" Moil-t o ll 11l SPAIN.—We read in a Madrid h e s hould be the last person in the world to say that the with having been guilty of great indiscretion, and Par- of Man."—Agreed to. 4 11 4er s , like t n i, il-c° achPat with three places for pas- acts of a man placed in such circumstances should liament was bound to know, as speedily as possible, the Sir R. PEEL brought up copies of the correspondence 14 , ()u ric _ , ..osa ofthe - France, have been established upon not be viewed with consideration and candour. proofs which the Government had to bring of this indis- which had taken place between Government and the at i t eati on l, lB o It is difficult to give an idea of the multi- His Noble Friend need not be afraid that, cretion. These were the only things that Parliament Bank of England, which were laid on the table. De rtlenin public Carriages of all kinds in Spill. They in calling for these papers, h e h a d any i n - cou ld j u d ge o f until the return of Lord Ellenborough, The Exchequer Bills (18,407,0001.) Bill was read a ant ° gla ever • • t 'av 111 t hat th y direction, and there is so much op- tention of urging on the discussion which for most unjust would it be at present to judge of the third time and passed. s m elli ng has b a fares are brought extremely low, and ought, in fairness, to •be postponed until Lord Ellen- conduct of that Nobleman, who might have been a wise COLONEL - BONET. et „„, c ' t her es become 80 greatly increased, that the inns b o rough had returned to this country. B ut it h a d man as we ll as a faithful servant (and he was sure he Sir B. PEEL said he wonld hadtake that opportunity of tahlish t,eatly i tt r _ meats for their accommodation are been said that there was an intention on the part of the had been the latter) of that great Company- alluding to a statement which been made in 'that te f r igand 13 "' ye & If our highways ar e but cleared of Government to take steps for depriving th e C our t o f Th e M arqu i s o f NORMANBY, in consequence of House (upon which certain questions were put to the le l' or 3 who infesteffect that a British el l e our co th em , foreig ners will flock to Directors of the power which they on this occasion exer- what had fallen from the Noble and Learned Lord Government) to the officer, ship off %1: 1 10 a t m° untry and i ts interesting curiosities, cised. If there was any such intention entertained in any (Brougham), w i s h e d t o ask th e N o ble Lord opposite commanding a . Alicante, had been ape 'Plan ' st unknown to the of E " there was one Noble Lord that ought first of a ll (E ar l R i p on ) w h e th er a power was vested in the Pre- plied to by a Spanish officer, Colonel . Bonet, c i s ef essen rest Europe."— quarter, t i ,,_ OPp Et Eta ger. others to be heard—that Noble Lord having made the sident of the Board of C o ntrol to release the members of who was under great apprehension with re end 7 t is net CIIII CITY.—AIthough it is not quite most decided objections to any reduction of the power the Secret Committee from their oath, and to allow them gard to the probability of his immediate execution, tdoNlY electfierralland that the d Y known that a man may be literally o f the Court of Directors- - (Cries of " Hear, to com municate p a p ers — w hether in point of fact that to be taken on board that ship, ~. officer com a at ta was : with newly ground coffee. The manner hear.") No one had taken a more active had not been done, and w h e ther in consequence nu- mending the ship, which was caned the Scout, had re ie• 4 shop i ,x exhibited to the writer of this a few days or useful part in that House in the administration of merous papers re l a ti ng t o Gvt a llor and Sinde had not fused admission to the vessel to Colonel Bonet. The 1 a stp n tne /New 4 th 4 M-engi n Town.. A large coffee-mill, drivenlndian affairs,. no one was more conversant with them, been communicated to the Court of Directors ? question which was put to her- Majesty's Government of t ban. ; e , was gr ndm the frog e !sto o d a Co I g coffee into a huge barrel.whether the • had given instruc • either when he was at the head of the Board of Control The Earl of RIPON said that none o f the instructions upon this subject was, ... ,e . ta t itch : r sh_ ground cotrereiperzio9p, directly under the . fall or unconnected with the Government, and lie had on which went through the Secret Committee were sub- tions to the officer commanding , the Scout, to refuse 4 1 Rlit e i n se of the copper iron rod being held within more occasions than one warned Noble Lords not 'flitted to the Dire c tors. with res p ec t t o Gwalior all admission, under the eircumstances, to Colonel .„04. tor stream of eleetgooN, .aninstantaneous flash of interfere with the hitherto successful balance the early papers were laid before the Court and were Bonet, and whether any account had been fill tyre instead result folloue-edul when was th attracted by the to o f powe r. Those were the opinions of the Noble Lord— afterwards sent to I n di a . Other documents Which pro- received by the Admiralty -from that officer respecting a s tOf 4 p i ne wri the the rod, and a slight shoc e k f ;i n k g e er the 'a p s u e n m c - - [Lord Ellenborough was understood to b e th e Noble- ceeded from the Board of Control were not produced the transaction. He (Sir H. Peel) stated at the time Ni l o k was asoas quite perceptible. By a rude contrivance, man referred te]—and h e (L or d Normanby) had no to the Board of Directors. that no such instructions had been given. Since the Nt e a tat, wh e c : ln off n micated from th e groun d coffee t o th e d ou bt his opinions so sound then had been confirmed by Lord COLCHEST E R t h oug ht that the friends of the statement to which he had referred, however, had aP zatteroeisthe Tacit e scampered the bewildered animal in a the practical experience he had since acquired.— Governor-Gener a l ought in justice to him to have Pro - Peared, Captain - Drumenond, o lhFofficer in question, t'phe r , cu e r iaus, and not be asnetaotniisltiiment. Altogether the I (Hear, hear.) Though he hal been ready, .en the duced to them the reasons why he had been deprived of had forwarded a statement I the whole transaction, ‘ . l ? , ae gtr, 2n there be electricity in i attention of the phi- request of the Noble Duke, to postpone 1 goes- his . "" q. office. It was very well to ask of their Lordships which he (Sir R. Peel) read would to the House. flour, oatmeal, or snuff? iti_le, pr,,e•ll3osed to friction as well Lion till the better h ea lth o f his Noble Friend to suspend their opinion, but was opinion suspended out and he thought it would be adecisive proof as to the po ,s;til v i i t ;" the one to b genuineas coffee ; and a test (Lord Ripon) permitted his attendance in his place, yet ;of doors ? The organs of public opinion had already Hey of their suspending their judgments upon reports • eots,,, an 7 reg ard to the others or the reverse, may be 1 must say he regretted the mail had left for India I pronounced their judgment, anduntilthey became acquainted with the subject. The too.—Correspondent of the , he gment, some one way, some 1 before he had an . opportunity of putting it, it another; and he regretted that the Noble Lord the •t 's ship Gribraltar, lttter was dated her Biajes y S co u t , April 20th, 1844, and was addressed to the operations of Gwalior, but I entertain a different opi- Secretary of the Admiralty. Captain Drummond said, nion. How can that difference of opinion be settled ex " Sir, I have just read in Galignani's Messenger an article cept by the production of the papers?" Now, what I which was taken from the Chronicle, containing a most doubted was whether there were sufficient grounds for libellous statement against a British vessel of war lying the production of the papers.—(Laughter.) Sir, no at Alicante, during the late disturbances ; and as it con- doubt a difference of opinion has prevailed with eludes by hoping that the question would be mentioned respect to the recal of Lord Ellenborough. No doubt in the House, I think it right to inform you of the tran- the Court of Directors had a right to recal Lord section that occurred, I being the officer in command of Ellenborough, and her Majesty's Government no doubt that station at the time. On the 13th of February dissented from the course which they pursued, believing I arrived at Alicante, ;and Mr. Wearing, the that there was nothing in Lord Ellen borough's conduct Consul, immediately came on board, and he stated that which made it wise or just, that he should be recalled. Colonel Bor.et, the Governor, wished to come to see me. Lord Ellenborough's conduct met with their full appro. I replied that I could not receive any such person ' he bation, considering the present state of India compared being in arms. Mr. Waring replied that my refusal to with that in which they found it. Looking to the receive Culonet Bonet would greatly exasperate manner in which he performed his duties, looking to his him, and might endanger the British and British whole conduct throughout his administration, nothing property in Alicante ; upon which I consented had passed in their opinion to diminish the confidence to see Colonel Bonet on deck in the presence of the which they had placed in him. But the Court of Direc officers of the ship. Colonel Bonet then stated that he tors, having full power, took a ditlerent view of the sub came to offer me any assistance I might require during ject, and exercised the powers which they possessed. my stay at Alicante ; and I replied that my sole I was asked when this matter was last under discussion, object in visiting Alicante was to protect British whether or no I considered the executive Government subjects, and British property, and he then responsible for the administration of affairs in India quitted the ship and he never came along after what had passed ? My answer to that question side of the ship again d ur i ng m y s t a y a t Alicante, and was, that, without reference to the differences which had I left on the 6th of March." This was the whole of the existed, the Government would feel it to be their duty to transaction, and it now appeared that instead of Colonel take those measures which appeared to them best calcu- Benet asking assistance, he came to offer it.—(Hear.) lated to diminish any hazard which might arise from the Captain DrumMond went on to say that he would have recal of Lord Ellenborough.—(Hear, hear.) The ques had a most unpleasant duty to perform, but that he t'on which we had to consider, after the C our t h a d de would have been quite prepared to act on his own re - termined on the recal of Lord Ellenborough, was what sponsibility, had Colonel Bonet applied to him under the should be done with respect to the appointment of a new circumstances which had been stated. Governor-General. We might have said to the Court of Lord JOHN RUSSELL was understood to express Directors, "You have acted upon the provisions of the his satisfaction at the statement which the Right Hon. law in recalling . Lord Ebenborough ; act upon those Gentleman had just read to the House. provisions also with respect to the appointment of a suc- Mr. P. BORTH WICK said, that his object in putting cessor, select the man whom you think qualified to exer the question to which the Right Hon. Gentleman had cise this high trust under the possibly increased difficulties referred was only to elicit information on the subject. which may arise from the recal of Lord Ellenborough ; COALS. notify to us your selection, and the Crown will inform In answer to a question from Mr. HUTT, respecting you whether it sanctions the choice. We felt it our a return of the amount of coals exported, duty, however, to pursue a different course, and we de- Sir G. CLERK said there was considerable difficulty termined to act in friendly concert with the Court of in making out the return wished for. Some time must Directors—(Cheers.) The Court appealed to the Govern elapse before it could be presented in a satisfactofy state. merit to act upon the ordinary usage with respect to the Lord HOWICK thought the return might be made nomination of Lord Ellenborough's successor. Sir, I out in a short time, and if there was any inconvenience had interviews with the Chairman and Deputy-Chair in making out the return, he thought the Right Hon. man of the Court of Directors, and I recommended that Gentleman himself was to blame. He hoped the return all past differences should be merged in considering the would be furnished before the discussion on the Bill, question what course it was best to pursue under the ex which the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the isting circumstances. I said, " You have appealed to her Exchequer proposed to introduce, took place. Majesty's Government in the appointment of a successor INDIA. to Lord Ellenborough; on the part of the Government, I Mr. HUME said that, agreeably to the notice which am willing to enter into concert with you for that purpose. he had given, he rose to bring forward his motion re- But I wilt suggest no one on the part of the Govern specting what jiad recently taken place relative to ment, unless I feel assured that the person nominated India. Believing, as lie did, that the subject was will command the confidence of the Court; and unless it an important one, he claimed the indulgence of appears probable, that the line of policy pursued will be the House whilst he stated what were his views of the approved of by them." I mentioned the name of my situation in which they were placed by what had lately Right Hon. Friend, Sir Henry Hardinge.—(Loud occurred relative to that portion of her Majesty s cheers.) I said that I thought upon the whole, dominions. The Government of India was placed in a in the present condition of India, from vary anomalous position. They saw an immense empire his long experience in his public character, containing about 100,000,000 of inhabitants, subjected to his military eminence, and his great experience in civil the Government of Britain by means chiefly of the affairs, my Right lion. Friend was the man who was India Company ; and they saw various large and best calculated to undertake the office of Governor important portions of the government of that country General ; and I was informed at once by the Chairman conducted by the Court of Directors—a body appointed and Deputy-Chairman that the sane name had occurred by the proprietors of East India stock, who, he might to them, and they assured me that no person could have say, first created that immense empire. Few were aware been selected who would be so acceptable to the Court. what had been done of late by the Legislature in reference —(Cheers.) I said at once that I would undertake to to that Company, and what little power had been left to propose the office of Governor-General to my Right them. There were two authorities governing India with Hon. Friend. In performing this promise I stated to paramount power. There was the Board of Commis- him that he commanded the confidence both of the sioners for managing the affairs of India, who con- Crown and of the Court, and I urged him to permit no trolled the power of the Directors connected with India. private considerations to deter him from undertaking One of the most important duties which devolved on this great responsibility. Sir, my Right Hon. Friend them was the appointment of the Governor-General of did not hesitate. He at once accepted this trust ; but India. They appointed whomsoever they approved of. my firm opinion is that he accepted that trust from the A question had lately been raised how far they had the highest and 'purest considerations of public duty. power of retaining that officer. It was said that they had —(Loud cheers.) My Right Honourable Friend the power of retaining him in his office, but he believed will proceed by the next packet to undertake his new no individual connected with India doubted that the duties ; and no consideration on earth shall induce me power of recalling that officer rested with the Court to fetter his administration by sending out in the same of Directors. This very power was retained to them packet a detailed correspondence of the nature and ex in the last charter, as if they had foreseen tent of the differences which had existed.—(Cheers.) I and resolved to provide for the circumstances do hope that the House of Commons will not call upon which had just taken place. The House the Crown to produce that correspondence ; and I ask might not be aware that a hint had been thrown out to the Right lion. Gentlemen opposite whether they do not the Court of Directors in 1833 by Sir Charles concur with me in opinion, that the production of the Grant, then President of the Board of Control, papers might be injurious to the public interest ? lam of taking this power from the Court of Directors. That quite sure that no personal considerations will influence was immediately opposed, and the reasons given for the their course with respect to this matter. The Hon. Gen assumption of the power of recal appeared to him to be tleman (Mr. Hume) said in his speech that my Noble perfectly satisfactory. The Chairman and Deputy-Chair- Friend, the Duke of Wellington, had accused the Court man, Mr. Banks and Mr. Wigram. stated, in June, 1833, of Directors of indiscretion. Why I never heard the why the power which they-had should becontinued to them. Hon. Gentleman attack the Government before, without There was another communication of the same date, by using much harsher expressions. The sole question, Mr. Tucker, who observed that he was willing to hope however, is, whether the production of those, papers that Ministers would render the Court useful ; but he would be for the public interest. Believing that it would could not say how that was to be done, when the whole not, I shall offer the motion my decided opposition. responsibility rested with the Court of Directors, and it Mr. ASTELJe said that when addressing the House had been taken away from the Government. That a few nights ago, he had asked them to suspend their authority had been continued to the Directors, and they judgment. If the Court of Directors were attacked, had now exercised it, and he felt no doubt that it had they would be prepared to defend themselves. What been exercised wisely ; although he had not the papers they had done they had done under an Act of Parlia before him.—(Hear, and laughter.) He might be wrong, ment, and they were above all personal considerations. but still he thought, from all he had heard, that the Their object had been simply the removal of Lord Directors had acted rightly. It was important that the Ellenborough from the Governor-Generalship of India. Court of Directors should stand well in the public opinion, In his opinion the publication of the papers would be and the Government of India, and it was on that ground highly injurious ; and, notwithstanding what had been that he asked for the papers with respect to the disputes said by his Hon. Friend opposite, he should not give him that had taken place between the Government and the his support on the present occasion. East India Company. It could not be a question of Mr. HOGG said, that what he stated on a former oc oriinary occurrence that induced twenty-three men to casion was, that it was his own opinion and belief, and recal Lord Ellenborough. This could not be construed he believed his colleagues were of the same opinion, that into a political question; the large majority of the Di- it would be proper and fit to leave it to her Majesty's rectors were in favour of the present Government, and Government to exercise their discretion as to the publi there must, therefore, have been reasons of the utmost cation of the papers; and he stated his belief and cone importance to warrant the Directors in the course they viction that, in the exercise of that discretion, they had adopted ; it, therefore, behoved all parties that full would be influenced by what was conducive to the pub information should be given on the subject. Judging lie interest. That was his individual opinion; and from what fell from two Directors on a former occasion, when he communicated with his colleagues, he was that it was their wish that full information should be happy to say that they were unanimous in the opinion given on the subject, he had come forward to elicit the he had then expressed. It was essentially necessary information he was now asking for ? Why did he do so? that the Governor of India should possess the joint con- Because a most important Minister of the Crown in fidence of her Majesty's Government and the Court of another place censured the Court of Directors. He had Directors, and for that reason the appointment of the passed upon them a censure so severe, that he believed Governor-General was the joint act of the Court no parallel could be found for it. It was, therefore, of of Directors and her Majesty's Government; and for importance to know whether the Government were right the same reason, namely, that theGovernorshouldpessess in the censure they had _passed, or the Directors were the joint confidence of both, the law made his recal se correct in the course they had pursued, and nothing was parate.—(Hear, hear,) It did not become him to say better calculated to solve that question than moving for more than that the Court of Directors exercised the correspondence.—(Hear, hear.) Now, he wanted to their right under an imperious sense of public duty, and know what the resolutions were that had been passed by they came to the resolution of recalling the Governor. the Court of Directors, in order to judge, after so General with the utmost reluctance and with great pain ; many months' cons ideration, why they had been and even though the Court of Directors should remain induced to remove the Noble Lord. In the speech subject to any imputation, he, as an individual, would of the Noble Duke in another place, he charged the rather remain subject to that than vote for the produc- Court of Directors no less that six times with indiscretion. tion of papers which were considered detrimental to the Was it possible to suppose that the Duke would be i n - public interest.—(Hear, hear.) The Court of Directors discreet enough to make such a statement without good were influenced solely by a regard to the public interest, grounds? He must have had the documents before and they would stand ill' before the public if they per-- him, and yet he six times charged the Court of Direc- . mitted themselves to be influenced by any personal con tors with gross indiscretion. After a Minister of the siderations whatever, or any considerations except such Crown had made these charges against the Directors, it as they conceived would be conducive to the interests of was absolutely neeessary that the papers should be laid the country. His opinion was that the production of before the House, in order that the matter might be the correspondence sought for by the motion of the Hon. cleared up. He would not allude to any portion of the Gentleman would be injurious—most injurious, if not dan conduct of Lord Ellenborough, except to what had been gerous—to the safety of India. alluded to by the Noble Duke on that occasion. He Mr. MACAULAY hoped that the Hon. Gentleman had stated it was indiscreet to remove the Governor- would not press his motion at the present time. He General while Sinde was disturbed and unsettled, and thought it would seem ungracious to the Noble Lord immediately after his recent successes in Gwalior. From who was so deeply implicated in the inquiry, and whose the documents he had seen on those subjects he had return was expected to this country, not to wait until come to a conclusion diametrically opposed to that of he had arrived. It was that feeling which led him (Mr. the Noble Duke.—(A laugh, and cries of " Hear, hear.") Macaulay) to postpone the motion of which he had No doubt the Right Hon. Baronet opposite had his own lately given notice. lie thought it would be advisable opinions upo n th e subject ;he was acquainted with all for the Hon. Gentleman to put off his motion for the the documents ; but he trusted that he would permit present; but he must say he had heard no argument to him (Mr. Hume) not only to entertain but to express convince him that on a future occasion, when the his opinions also.—(Hear, hear.) Believing that if an Governor-General should have returned to this country, explanation were not given, the character, not only of the motion now made ought not to be renewed and granted. the Board of Directors, but of the Government also, If ever there was a case in which Parliament ought to would suffer, and that serious consequences would ensue have the information, it was this case. Certain it was, in India, he appealed to the House to support the mo- that there was misconduct somewhere, either on the tion. All important orders sent to India are submitted part of the Government in continuing the Governor to the Board of Control, and to the Secret Committee General in office, or on the part of the Board of Di of the Court of Directors. He did not ask for the cor- rectors in recalling him. Let them take which horn of respondence between the Government and the Secret the dilemma they pleased. A noble personage con , Committee, but he did ask for the correspondence be- nected with the Government said, the recal of Lord tween the Government and Court of Directors generally, Ellenborough was an act of the greatest indiscretion and the production of that correspondence was necessary that had taken place during his recollection. If that to free the Court of Directors from the aspersions which noble personage spoke the sentiments of the Govern had been cast upon them, and to free the Government meat, the Government must have considered the act of from the charge of having acted unjustly to the Court the Board of Directors an act of greater indiscretion of Directors. In support of his motion he would appeal than the Walcheren expedition, or the Bill of pains to the Noble Duke himself when asked if he was pre • and penalties against the Queen. This was a charge pared to bring such information before the House as which ought not to be made, unless those who made it would enable them to judge of the indiscretion of the were prepared to substantiate it.—(Hear.) It was said Court of Directors; the Duke had said that he was not that the East India Directors had acted with prepared to say what papers would be produced, but the greatest rashness and indiscretion. Then, if so, that Parliament was entitled to all the information that they were unfit to be entrusted with the high powers could be afforded. All he asked for was justice, and which they exercised. And if they were unfit to be en the British and the Indian public were alike entitled to trusted with these powers, Parliament ought to be made the production of those papers which were necessary to acquainted with the reasons ; but it was not fair to thro w bring the conduct of the Beard of Control and of the imputations on the Board of Directors, which might pm' Board of Directors before Parliament. The Hon. Mem- judice the public mind of this country a gainst them. leer concluded by moving for copies of all correspondence He was content, for his part, to postpone his demand for between the Court of Directors of the East India Com- those papers until Lord Ellenborough returned toEng: pany and her Majesty's Government, respecting the land, and until his conduct was brough t under the wereeon recal of Lord Ellenborough, the Governor-General of sideration of Parliament. But unle ss those p apers India. Sir R. PEEL—Sir, I rise to offer my most decided thent the e o g n ranted tvel e? it the might House trulybeof Commonssaid there onsioi ivet was yvt he anG endGovern opposition vev a t o . i of Ministers. opposition to the motion of the Hon. Gentleman. The ment—there was an end to the , P his usual dexterity Hon. Gentleman states that this House is the authority The Right Hon. Baronethed withres to which an appeal should be made in case of a differ- and skill, evaded the question which a h n a d d t b u e rn en ed pu f t ro to m hi thee ence of opinion between the two chief authorities in this lie had glided, almost inh i i n esat s rr t a r t—i ta on ne o o f us ia ly o , rd fr E om llen t b m h o l country invested with the Government of India. If it past to the future—(Hear, adm of his successor, which was be true that this House is the court of appeal, and that present or antece dent in India. Ie would not then particular ya t i y e iuntlha that th a ii e st t 81 0 1, f aa Lord taenootf Ellen conduct n fair l l e e e n troi we are called on to exercise our judgment in such cases, rough to the adm i nistration lam confident that the House will not proceed to per• now about to commence H form those duties and to pronounce an opinion on the bring before the ous l e d a e n o y u conduct of my Noble Friend the Governor-General of b orou gh's h b o u u t s h e e an w d ou the again to attempt to prejudice the public mind Directors. India in his absence. Those considerations of justice and leave the equity which induced the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite tainty, nor the Court o the Ministry, at least AoneNowbhleo Lord, gave themwho had given notice of a motion on a matter which &con- against con sidered of the utmost importance—l mean on the subject nected with of the recent transactions in Gwalior—those same con- his support, said that the power which the Board of Di siderations of equity and justice which induced the Right rectors at present possessed should be taken from them, Hon. Gentleman to postpone his motion, because Lord as it was both anomalous and absurd ; but he (Mr. Mac- Ellenborough had been recalled ; those same considers- aulay) did not think it either anomalous or absurd, and he tions, I say, must prevent the House from pronouncing felt it his duty, although not immediately connected with any judgment in the absence of my Noble Friend, con- the Board o f Di rectors, to stand up for the charter and sequently I doubt whether , if th e Hon. Gentleman should the East Indi a B oar d o f Di rectors . Thi s was a o btain the papers, his object wo uld be gained. But, Sir, power which, h e th oug h t , t h ey h a d hi t h erto exerc i se d that is not the ground upon which I offer my opposition en a sal u t ar y an d proper manner, an d w hi c h to the motion of my Hon. Friend. The single point he promised should not be taken from them without a which I think ought to be considered in this case is long struggle; but with respect to the exercise of that what is most conducive to the interests of India, and the power in the present instance, since there were no maintenance of British power in that country. By that papers laid before the House to help its judgment, consideration, and upon that alone , was I influenced they should not hastily pronounce against the Board of when we came to our decision.—(Hear,hear.) All perso- Directors. He would not touch upon any single act of nalconsiderations were ent i rely suspended. Ido not deny Lord Ellenborough's but merely refer to the Court o f the right of the Hon. Gentleman to exercise his judgment Directors in the present ' instance. The Court was with respect to the affairs of Gwalior. When I inti- unanimous. They knew how the Court was composed. mated a doubt as to the position which he assumed in They knew that there were to be found i n that Court the course of his observations, my d ou bt arose f rom t hi s a great number of men eminently qualified to judge of circumstance, that the Hon. Gentleman said, "the Duke the polioy of the Governor-General ; and he did not of Wellington entertains opi n i ons favourable to the believe that the most ignorant ten gentlemen, members 1 V w."'~T~ of that Board, were not more conversant vigil). the ,r7:4\ affairs of India than any lion. Member on the Treasury ; Benches opposite. It had been said that . the ,‘ Court of Directors knew no thi ng a b out t h e 'private, instructions that went out f rom the lionja , A . " ; ." Government to Lord Ellenborough—that they did tual - 7,/t. see the papers which passed through the Secret D ePa N LS ktIC meat. But it should be recoll ec t e d t h at the pape r which passed through the Secret Department related chiefly to peace or war, and that there were three mem bers of the Court of Directors who inspected these papers. Now, as the Hon. Director opposite (Mr. Hogg) had told the House th t all th e Di rectors were unanimous, it followed that those three gentlemen, whe had the opportunity of consulting these papers, must' have been favourable to the recal of Lord Ellenborough. —(Hear, hear.) He could have imaginei that strong party feelings might have dictated a recal, which could not be justified. Had the majority of the Court of Directors been Whigs, there could have been a • plausible pretence assigned for the recal of. Lord Ellenborough from party motives ; but the fact was the majority of the Board of Directors were Conservatives, and not only Conservatives, but had supported the Government of Lord Ellenborough on a very trying occa sion, when the question of the gates of Somnauth was brought under the consideration of the House of Com mons. He would mention a name great in the history of India—a man remarkable for his presence of mind and eool judgment. He alluded to Sir Richard Jenkins ; be was a member of the Board of Directors, and yet he was in favour of the recal of Lord Ellenborough. There was no doubt but it was with the greatest reluctance the Board of Directors took this last and final step. They struck the blow, but they immediately started back.—(Laughter, and cries of " Hear, hear.) As he said before, he would not now vote for the immediate production of those papers, but there was no doubt but Lord Ellenborough would be in the country by the beginning of next session, and if the Government then refused the productions of those papers it was only because they dare not produce them.—(Chee s.) Mr. MANGLES was convinced that when the papers were produced they would be exceedingly damag ing to the present Government. However, at present he did not think it would be expedient to produce those papers, but when Lord Ellenborough returned, and when the • matter was again brought under the consideration of Parliament, he should certainly vote in favour of their production, but would not do so for the reasons he had stated on the present occasion. Lord J. RUSSELL entirely agreed with the senti ments which had been expressed by his Hon. Friend the Mmber for Edinburgh. He did not think it would be advisable to produce the papers just now. It must be inconvenient for the public service to do so, and he thought it was better not to make any allusion to the past. It was said that the Court of Directors had been guilty of great indiscretion; even if they had been so they were willing to atone for it as they had shown by their subsequent conduct.—(Laughter, and cries of " Hear, hear.") He trusted that the administration which was about to be established in India, would be productive of great advantages to that country. Mr. HUME should certainly insist upon the produc tion of the papers, and thought the Right Honourable Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh had been incon sistent in saying that if ever there was a period at which the conduct of the Board of Directors and of the Govern ment required explanation, it was the present, and yet he would vote against the production of the papers. Why, the Board of Directors had been declared inca pable of holding their power; they had been told they had acted indiscreetly by a Noble Duke. It seemed they were willing to lie down like crouching dogs, to be thrashed again.—(Laughter.) What the use wanted to know was, the cause of the recal of Lord Ellenbo rough—the reason of the dispute between the Board • of Directors and the Board of Control. He thought the House ought to have that information and he should certainly press his motion to a division. Mr. ROEBUCK rose amid loud cries of " He would only make one observation. Lord Ellen borough had been recalled—his successor had been ap pointed. He was anxious to know whether the Govern ment sanctioned the conduct of Lord Ellenborough, and whether the new Governor-General Vi ould take Lord Ellenborough's policy for his guide. He was anxious to know whether Lord Ellenborough had been removed by the Court of Directors for his policy, or for his private conduct. He wanted to know, whether or not a com promise had taken place between the Government and the Board of Directors—that having Government removed Lord Ellenborough from some personal pique, or personal feeling, they were willing that the new Go vernor-General s hould continue his policy. He wanted to know whether the principles on which Sir Henry Hardinge went out to govern India were those upon which Lord Ellenborough had acted. Sir ROBERT PEEL did not know whether these questions affected him or not. There was no compro mise between the Court of Directors and the Govern ment. Not a word passed, private or public., between the Government and the Directors, partaking of a com promise. The Court of Directors had been consulted regarding the appointment of Sir Henry Hardinge, and in that appointment they entirely concurred. Regard ing the principles upon which Sir H. Hardinge would act, he would, of course, have to decide for himself; but he was sure, from the principles of justice and modera tion which had hitherto invariably guided that Right, Hon. Gentleman, that his government would in no re spect deviate from those principles.—(Hear.) The House divided. The numbers were— For the motion 2l . Against it Majority —l76 - THE MORTMAIN LAWS Lord J. MANNERS then rose to bring forward his motion for the appointment of a Select Committee to inqUire into the mortmain laws. The Noble Lord com menced by stating various cases in which property left to the poor had been misappropriated in consequence of the defective state of the law. In the tows of Stockport 500/. had been left for the poor, and afterwards misapplied. This was but one instance out of many. It must be ad mitted, on all hands, that there was a necessity for in quiry. He would not trespass on the attention of the House, but if the House refused the Commttee, he must be at liberty to suppose that it was not because the laws of mortmain did not require improvement, but be cause they were so absurd that it was difficult to deal with them. Sir J. GRAHAM said he was by no means disposed to say that it was not desirable that inquiry should not be made into the operation of these laws. He thought their policy must be reserved for future discussion ; but he had great pleasure in acceding to the appointment of a Committee. Sir W. HEATHCOTE moved for leave to bring in a Bill to facilitate the collection of county rates, and to relieve high constables from compulsory attendance at. quar ter sessions.—Agreed to. POOR-LAW B ILL. • In reply to a question from Mr. P. BORTHWICK, Sir J. GRAHAM stated that it was his intention to move that the Poor-law Bill should go into Committee pro forma on Friday next. CTORIES BILL. On the motion of Sir J. GRAHAM, after some short. discussion, the report on the Factories Bill was received, and the third reading was ordered to take place on Fri day next. CUSTOMS' DUTIES ACTS. The Customs' Duties Acts report was brought up and received. VINEGAR AND GLASS DUTIES BILL. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX CHEQUER this Bill was read a second time. STAMP DUTIES BILL. • On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX CHEQUER the Stamp Duties Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Thursday. The House adjourned at Half past Eight. TUESDAY NIGHT'S GAZETTE. WHITEHALL, MAT 4, 1814. The Queen has been pleased to appoint Philip Henry hope Esq. (commonly called Viscount Mahon), th e _ . Right Hon. Thomas Babington Macaulay to be isli v an_ifu_t Commissioners for the purpose of inquiring whether, is!l4ln i ar might not be taken of the rebuilding of the House of r merit for promoting and encouraging the Fine Arts. WHITEHALL, MAT 7. to the church and parish of Appleceet the death of the Rev. Locharron and county of Ross, vacant _by The Queen has been pleased to prese,ntittiliethilevireiJobhynterßyeij. Roderick Macrae, late minister ) thereof. d to present the Rev. .1. The Queen has also been Prt, raiinn in the presbytery Blair to the church and parish 0. po u :rt ch at an ion d p o ar f i t s h h e o - R f R. Paton, late minister thereof David's, Gliriv. and county of Ayr . , vacant b St OFFICE OF ORDNANCE, AlAt 4. t t h o e the t e c h s Royal Regiment . of Artillery—Second Captain H. H. D. O'Brien to be Ca p tain, vice Farrell, retired on full-pa )r; Fi rs t Lieutenant F . Ramsa y to be Second Ca p tain, vice O'Brien ; Sec ond Lieutenant F. C. Standish to be First Lieu. tenant, vice of Royal vieeßal Marines—Gentleman ADMIRALTY, saY MAY 3. Corps ' April 28. Cadet W. S. Davis be Second Lieutenant, May 3, 1844. ADMIRALTY, MAY 6. Corps of Royal Mari nes --First Lieutenant G. E. Hunt, to.. be Captain, vice Capt a i n H. S avage , t o half-pay; Second" Lieutenant F. J. Richards to be First Lieutenant, vice Hunt,. promoted, May 3. Gentleman Cadet E. C. Doraville to be. Second Lieutenant, May 6. Commission by the Lord Lieutenant of Middleset. George Forbes, Esq., to be Deputy-Lieutenant ; r4nxi Jelf Sharp, Esq., to be Deputy-Lieutenant, April, 29. West Middlesex Regiment of Militla—The Right Hots: George Stevens Byng to be Colonel, April 29. BANKRUPTCIES SUPERSEDED GEORGE CAVE and RICHARD CAVE, drapers, Ban. bury, Oxfordshire, April 24. HENRY TAYLOR, victualler, Bilston, Staffordshire, April 17. BANKRUPTS. EDWARD HOLMES, warehouseman, King street Chee side, to surrender, May 1 4, at half-put eleven, sad • 010 1:,., at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Penunlit.urer. assignee, Basinghall-street ; Pain and Hatherly• Crest borough-street. prietor, Long.- acre, May 14, at eleven, and June 1 4 , at twe lve at the Court ro HENRY SIMMONDS, sen., coach p of Bankruptcy. Pennell, official assignee, Basinghta-street ; Pierce, and Hawke:, Three Crown-square, Southwark. WILLIAM HENRYNASHand WILL IAM GARDINER, d ra pers, Exeter, May 16, and June 18, at eleven, at the Court.. of Bankruptcy. Whitmore, official assignee, Basinghall-street;, Sole and Sole, Aldermanbury. THOMAS COX, fruiterer, Porchester-street, Com az ypt.. square, May 21 and June 26, at eleven, at the Court of Bad.. ruptcy. Johnson, official assignee, Basinghall-street ; Fennell and Kelly, Bedford-row. CHARLES WILLIAMS, furrier, Sutton-street, York.. road, Lambeth, May 14, at half-past one, and June 14, at uilder, dwan W adr I ds.f L u L no l me A c A liaB l l, B aa A ts K seigni E ev ß eee , "n, Frederick's-place,at the Court of Woolwich,a eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. T urquan d, official as. signee, Old Jewry-chambers ; Jones, Parliament-street. THOMAS May ruptcy. ayt. one, E Old Jewry ; Brooks, Great James-street, Bedford-row. JOHN BIRD, watch-manufacturer, St. John's-square, Clerkenwell, May 15, at half-past twelve, and June 19, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Johnson, official wig. the of Yu- Ind IT- the Rill ject h her s ite 0 16 - Ala