The Sun. — London, England, 1839-07-09 00:00:00

!7_IrENING EDITION. Iwith banking, they would not have f..llen into such errors, nor would the public have suffered to the extent which they had done. But they advanced between 5,000,000/. iand 6,000,000/. in or(:er to pay the dissenti !uts, thus de v i a ti ng f rom th e principles of bank -Ins and lending money on stock security. The evil did not stop here, but went on gradually increas ing till it arr i ve d at an unprecedented height. Ile had calculations showing the gradual increase of paper money. He took his estimate of the issues of the Bank from their securities, he thought th e r e could be no better criterion. He had found that as the Bank securities were increased, beyond what was the fair amount for the market, in the same ratio had the bullion disappeared. Now the Bank had increased their securities in a most unprincipled man ner, in a manner that is contrary to all rule. In the year 1822. the paper currency was—Bank of England 24 ,000.0001., country, 6,000,0001. ; total, 32,000,0001. In 1824—Bank of England, 30,000,000 1 ., country, 11 ,000,0001. ; total, 41,000,0001. This showed an in crease of 9,000,000/. in the general paper currency of the country. In 1821, there had been an issue of 2 8,000,000/. in sovereigns ; but few of them re mained, for the currency had been so debased by the large increase of paper, that the gold rapidly ran out of the country. Could there be a clearer proof that, in proportion as the value of paper was lowered, so that it was no longer exchangeable for gold, the gold disappeared out of the country ? The general currency having been greatly increased, all things assumed the appearance of prosperity, which, however, did not last. When the Four per Cents. were about to be reduced, which led to a double increase of currency, on the 28th Feb. 1823, Consols were at 731 ; in April, 78; Feb. 1824, at 92i ; in April, 961-; but in 1825 the bubbie burst, they fell to 28 and 23. Of course an property was depreciated in the same proportion. What was the situation of those posses sing Government Securities, when there existed in any body the power of working such sudden changes—of so tampering and d a bbli ng with the currency against all principle and rule? What was the state of the currency in 1825 ? He would show them an account which was beyond the pos sibility of doubt or question, and which would prove to them the cause of the lamentable results which took place in the course of the following y e ar —he meant between the 23d of February 1823, and February 1822. In one year the in crease in these securities was 2,300,0001. On the 25th of February 1826, as compared with 1823, the in crease was half a million. When the dead weight money was paid by the Bank in 1825, the increase was 6,079,000/. showing that the increased issue of paper currency up to rebruary 1826, was 7,967,0001., so that from February 1822 to February 1826 the increase was 16,9.15,0001. —all that would be proved by the returns on the table. He would allude to the country bank paper by and by—he was at present confining himself to the Bank of England, be cause .at that time it had not made itself responsible for the country banks. On the Ist of July 1825 the Bank paid 6,500,0004 by an issue of bank notes. They had also made an advance on stock to the amount of 2 ,000,000/. They had advanced on mortgages and other bills 1,500,0001, and there was an increase of commercial bills discounted, as compared with 1.923, of 1,500,0001., making altogether a sum of 17,217,0001. which included a payment of 4,200,000/. I to the holders of Four per Cent, stock. So little did the principles of sound banking appear to be understood or recognised, that it was understood at that very period, in imitation of England, France had determined to reduce her Five per Cents., and Mr. Rothschild and Mr. Alex. Barinr , had contracted to supply money to carry them through. The Bill passed through the Chamber of De puties, and it was lost by a majority o. one in the Chamber of Peers; and the fact was, that Mr. Rothschild had re c.'ived from the Bank Directors a promise to advance them a ..sum of tvro millions for that purpose. and it was only that morning a gentleman told him that Mr. Rothschild said i; was a most fortunate thing the Bill was thrown out, beeau,se the payment of two millions to the French Go vernment would have occurred during the commercial crisis in England, and would have been utterly ruinous to that country. There, then, was an accession to the issues of 76 millions. He had a most important document which he would read. The great issues made by the Bank produced a degree of speculation unequalled in this coun try. He had a return laid on the table of the jdouse by Mr. Huskisson in 1825, from which it ap peared that in that year the increase in the im portation of flax amounted to 44 per cent. ; tal low 71 per cent. ; tobacco 81 per cent. ; cotton 52 per cent. ; and sheep's wool 94 per cent. All those articl el Were thrown into England because the prices had been unnaturally raised by such immense issues, and foreigners obtained in 1825, the largely advanced prices. When the bubble bulli o n -1825, and the Bank had nearly ceased to pay in when their stock of bullion did not amount to 500 , 0 00/.—that very Government which bad so reduced the interest, were obliged to borrow 8,000,0001. at 4 per cent, at 94/., being a loss to the country of 1,600,000/. by forcing that scheme. The revenue had fallen off two mil lion and a half, the interest of Exchequer bills fell to 2 per cent. discount, and the Government were obliged to raise the interest up to 3 per cent. The 3 per cents., also ifell 20 per cent., and the dockets struck in the Court of Bankruptcy increased to a ten-fold degree. All this arose front the causes he bad just stated, and it was to prevent such an occurrence that he was anxious long ago have an inquiry, in order to bring proof before the House. While the ruin was taking place, however, in the country, that Bank flourished, for the moment the difficulties began, they raised the interest 5 per cent., and it was only last year that the Governor congratulated the proprietors on the profits they had made during the years of the panic. It might be said, that this had taken place, but that there were no means of preventing it ? Could any one doubt the Power of the Bank to prevent the difficulty ? The currency ought to yield to the wants of the country. Ile might be told the Back did not know of the change that was going on in 1825, but if they looked at their own returns, they would see the most distinct notice that could be given to any body was given to them. On the 26th February, 1824, there were 13,700,0001. worth of bullion in the Bank of England. Oa the 26th of May, it declined to 13,000,000/., and went on gradually decreasing till on the 22d February 1825 it Warm 8,800,000/. On the 26th May in that year it was 6,000,000/. On the 26th August it was reduced to .3,500,0001., and they all knew there vas a panic. So that in the beginning of 1824 the creation 'of paper by the Bank had become so large that the bullion was forced out of the country. On examining page 88 of Report 32, it would be seen how very slowly the prices advanced, and that notwithstanding the increase of the paper currency in 1824 of 9,009,000/., the decrease of bullion from' February to November was only 3,000,0001., 1 but from November 1824 to November 1825 the decrease was 8,000,000/., and the Bank had only 8,000,000/. in bullion. It was impossible they could have a better test of the increase of the issue. The result was that they obtained an increased command over the property of the country. In proportion as the amount of securities was afterwards decreased, did the gold re turn ? Commerce was brought back, but under such enor mous suffering that he trusted it would never be witnessed again. So much for the Bank of England. But they had been in the habit of throwing all the blame on the Joint Stock Banks, and he admitted they were not without blame. The following was a statement of what they contributed to produce the failure at that time. Ho had stated that there was a difference of 17,000,000/. in round numbers in the securities of the Bank of England. The creation of paper money by the country banks during the same period was 6,415,000/., which, added to the sum of 17,206,000/., made an aggregate of 23,621,000/. Was it to be won dered at that they should witness the ruin which was caused ? Had this ptvved a salutary lesson to the Bank it might have been looked back upon with feelings of something like complacency, but no sooner had the coun try been relieved from one misfortune than another fol lowed. The misfortunes of the country in 1836 and 1837 were all attributable to the Bank of England, and the facts which he would relate would make this matter clear to•the mind of every person.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He Would lay it down as a rule that when the Bank securities and their bullion were of equal value—the ex changes would remain in their natural state, and the com merce of the country would go on prosperously. In the Year 1833 Lord Altherp renewed the Bank Charter, and be (Mr. Hume) looked back with satisfaction to his con duct on that occasion. He had opposed it in every stage, and had then stated what would be the result of that mea sure. Two considerable alterations had been made at that period. One was the establishment of Joint-stock banks. These Joint-stock banks had been blamed as the authors of the misfortunes of the country. Now, although he would admit that they had sinned a little, yet their sins were but little indeed when compared with those of the Bank of England. All that the three volumes of evidence could make out against them was that in one or two in stances there had been individual mismanagement • and was it to be expected out of so many establishments Of this nature that such should not be the case in one or two in stances ? but he would say, let those parties who had en trustee the management of their affairs to the hands of in , competent persons take the consequences of their own i neglect, there was no case made out justifying public in terferenee. Another alteration which took place was the 1 making Bank of England paper a legal tender, and the Joint-stock Banks were only required to pay their own paper, by tendering Bank of England paper in exchange for it. He bad foretold what would be the result of this measure, and had begged of the Bank Direc tors not to allow that clause to remain in the Bill, because by throwing the providing of the whole of the bullion to meet the circulation of the country on the Bank of England when the pressure came it would be felt no where more severely than at the Bank, and 88 by that clause the care 1 of providing bullion f or t h e w h o l e c i rcu l at i on o f this 1, country, and of Scotland and Ireland as well, had de volved upon the Bank of England, they ought to have been more circumspect than ever. It was thought the pub- 1 liaising o f the Quarterly Report of the amount of bullion in the coffers of the Bank would be a sufficient protection, but every one now knew and admitted that it was of no value, no attention was paid to it, it was no check to keep the cur rency in a proper and healthy state. He believed the Branch Banks had been useful ; but when they looked at the manner in which the Bank had lent their money, it was no wonder that we had constant fluctuations. They had four principles of interest going on at the same time. They lent country banks a sum of from 300,0001. to 350,000/. at three per cent—then for the same advances to another class they charged three-and -a-half per cent, while they I were discounting another class of bills at 4 per cent — a pres . sure came, and then they raised the price of money to five and five-and-a-half ; and who could say it might not soon reach six per cent. ? Now, bow absurd to be raising the rate of interest in London, while they allowed so much of their paper to remain upon loan in the country—that was acting partially, unequally, and therefore unfairly; and these were the errors which produced such disastrous results, which rendered the currency unsteady, and ought not to be allowed. He charged the Bank with breaking through their own rules. The Hon. Member quoted from the evidence given by Mr. H. Palmer to show that the Bank was established for the purpose of supplying the country with money according to its legitimate wants, and he said it was necessar y th a t th e a m ount of securities should always be the same. Now, how had they carried out that ? He did not agree with Mr. Palmer, for he Would not confine the Bank so much ; but he thought the securt:ies ought always to bear a proportion to the amount Of bullion and the currency of the country, yet within a very few months of that evidence being given there was a great departure from the rule—in fact the fluctuations proved that the Bank had no proper and steady system of dis counts and securities. In May 1835 the currency was in a healthy condition ; the Government were then wishing to barrow 15,000,000/. ; they had communications with the Bank, which refused to say whether the usual facilities would be given. The Chancellor of the Exchequer ob tained his money at 34 per cent , but within two days after that loan was concluded the Bank issued a notice offering advances of money upon India Bonds, Exchequer Bills, and other securities at Three and a Half per cent. That did not do, and in 15 days more they issued another notice offering advances upon stock, being the first offer of the kind since the disastrous period of 1825. He had no hesitation in saying that those different notices were advertisements that money would be lent ; money con tinued to decline till the year 1838; but notice was again given that money would be lent on Exchequer bills, &c. at Three and a Half per cent. There had been a difference of 11,267,000/. in the amount of the circulation within a very few years. The irregularities that existed in the affairs of the Bank were such as to make it impossible for any commercial man to conduct his business or speculations on any fixed principle. The greatest variations that had taken place in the Joint stock Banks amounted to 2,107,000/., while the varia tions in the issues of the Bank of England had been, as he had satisfactorily shown, at various times most enormous. In December, 1838, the Bank had given notice that it would renew its. issnes ; and cotton, which before that time was being sold at 6d. and 61d. per lb., was, from the im petus thus given, in a very short time raised to 9d. and W. per lb. How different was the course pursued by the Bank of France from that adopted by the B ink of Eng land ? During the severest pressures that Bank never re fused to discount, and only on some occasions slightly raised the rate of discount. It had not altered its rate of interest from 1818, notwithstanding tbe Revo lution of 1830, which was 4 per cent. When he (Mr. Hume) last visited France, he inspected that Bank, and on asking the foreman whether there was any objection to his looking at the books, the reply was " None at all, our house is a glass house." Every morning the Chancel lor of the Exchequer of France received from the Gover. nor an account made up the previous evening of every shilling received in the Bank, and a statement of all its transactions. By that means the greatest confidence ex isted in the Bank, and when the Belgian Bank failed, and here was a considerable pressure on the Bank of France, all that they did on that occasion was to re-discount the notes which Lafitte's Bank had issued. That was all that was done to place the question in a proper position. The distress that existed in 1836, when many thousands of poor people in Manchester, Birmingham, Sheffield, and other manufacturing towns were thrown out of employment and starved, in consequence of their masters being ruined, might be traced to the pernicious system adopted by the Bank. It was absolutely necessary, in order to protect the pro perty of the country, that there should be a currency of one uniform standard. Private interests must not be allowed to interfere with those of the public. It behoved Parliament not to separate until they had ascertained what was the proper course to be adopted to prevent similar occurrences again taking place. If it could be shown that one course had done the evil, and that another course would have avoided it, the Bank Directors ought to be anxious to have the benefit of the investigation of a Committee on this subject. He ( Mr. Hume) had wished for the appointment of a Committee earlier in the Ses sion, and regretted that it had not taken place, but in the present critical situation of the Bank he thought the Chan cellor of the Exchequer ought not to allow the House to separate without appointing such a Committee. The Hon. Member concluded by moving his resolution. Mr. WILLI MS, in seconding the amendment, re gretted that so little interest was taken on the subject, which was of such great importance, for there could be nothing more important that an inquiry into the fluctua tions which bad taken place in the value of every descrip tion of money in the country. At one time they found every interest in a state of prosperity—at another time they saw the commencement of adversity, which went on progressing, until every interest in the country was in a state of depression—tl ey saw prosperity and adversity moving about as in a cycle. There must be some great and powerful cause for this ; and some remedy ought to be sought out for these evils. He thought they had been occasioned almost entirely by the mismanagement of the machinery of the Bank of England, and the great powers given to it. The connection of the Exchequer with the Bank of England, had tended to agggravato the evil. The issues of the banks, et one time high and another low, were continually varying. It' he began with the stoppage in 1797, more evil could be traced from that period than any other. In 1810 bank notes had become depreciated, and great alarm was caused. A Committee of the House of Commons was ap pointed, and an inquiry took place. In 1815, at the time of the general peace, the Bank of England was obliged to resume cash payments. The Bank, thereupon, began to draw in its issue, with the view of meetingits, obligations, and the consequence was again a great depre ciation in property, great distress among the working classes, and amongst persons engaged in trade and com merce. The prices were so great, that an Act was passed relieving the Bank from the obligation. Then, again, they got into prosperity. Matters went on until Peel's Bill was passed. The pressure then was so great, that in 1822, just before the Bill came into effect, the Bill was repealed in part, extending the time for the circulation of one pound notes. Immediately after the Bill came into operation, commodities rose trom 50 to 100 per cent., and gold and silver were exported to pay for this vast increase of the raw material. That brought on the panic of 1825, and perhaps no other country was ever placed in such a situation of jeopardy. as this country was placed in at that time. Every de scription of our trade and manufacture was reduced to one half, and Mr. Huskisson said that in consequence of the mismanagement of the affairs of the Bank of England this great country had been within forty-eight hours of barter. Seeing the great increase in the value of com modities, Mr. Canning, who was then Minister, became alarmed, and he got a Bill passed to repeal the Bill which extended the circulation of 11. notes. Great and distress ing fluctuations were thus produced. In the year 1830 the highest price of Consols was 94f per cent., the lowest 77k, and in the next year it was 74,k, being a fluctuation of 23 cr 24 per cent. This reduced the debt of 800,000,0001. by about 16,000,000/. or 17,000,0001. Again there was gradual prosperity and high prices until the end of 1836.—( Hear, hear.) The mismanagement of the Bank was most destructive to the public interests. As for their three months average, God knew, it was very incorrect.— ( Hear, hear.) He found that on the 3d of July in that year, 1835, their circulation, including deposits—which he asserted were a vital part of their stock, although they would affirm the contrary ; for when they began to take in their gold the public took in their deposits, as they could make better use of the money—the circulation of the Bank was 29,269,000/. and of bullion 6,219,000/. On the 14th of January 1836 it was exhibited as 36,431,000/. and the bullion 7.760,0001. being an increase in six months of one-fifth of the whole; while the increase in the bullion was 850,000/. The next year the prices of some ar ticles were advanced 30,40, 50, 60, and even 70 per cent. It was really wonderful that while the circulation of paper affected the whole of the property of this country, there should he so much indifference and ignorance respecting it.—( Hear, hear.) In 1836 the Bank again reduced its issue. The West India loan was almost all paid up, and the " rest" of the Bank exceeded 9,000,000/., which they were so anxious to employ that there was a glut of money in the market ; almost any kind of bills of exchange could be discounted at 2 per cent. It was a lamentable fact that nearly all the corn we imported last year was paid for in bullion instead of being paid for in manufactures, as we used to do before. It appeared that, on the Bth of Ja nuary, in the present year, the circulation was in money 28,526,000/. ;in bullion, 9,360,000/. On the 25th of June last, it was in money 25,660,060/. ; in bullion 4,344,000/. The country was really bound to look carefully to the operation of the Corn.laws.—( Hear, hear.) Since the Bill of 1819, the country had been almost in continual danger on account of the irregularity cf the Bank, in direct opposition to their own evidence when they solicited the new charter. Ought the property of the country, the subsistence of the working classes, the com mercial and manufacturing interests of the nation, to be hazarded in that manner ?—( Hear, hear.) He trusted the House would grant that inquiry which the Hon. Member for Kilkenny had proved to be necessary. The anion between the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Bank was most injurious to the country. The Exchequer now depended on the Bank for funds to meet its payments : the payments of last year were made out by the Government on deficiency bills. The state of the Bank most impera tively called for inquiry. At the half-yearly meet ings there were asked and answered a few civil questions which contained no information whatever. Ile believed that not one Bank Proprietor—nor a Direct•r knew anything of the management of their concerns. Was it fitting that the Government and the country should be placed at the mercy of such a body ? lie could imagine a state of things in which the Government would ark the Bank a loan to save the Exchequer from stopping pay ment, and the Bank mi g ht re p l y that if the y advanced the money, they must atop. Should a system be allowed in which the country might be placed between two such alter natives ? As to which was the most to be deprecated, opinions might vary, but for himself he candidly confessed that ho thought the stoppage of the Exchequer infinitely the most mischievous and dangerous. He would now say a word as to Savings Banks. There were 22,000,000/. of deposits. Let it be recollected that this was payable at very short notice, and that a general alarm might produce a drain upon these funds, the consequence of which could not be foreseen.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had exulted the other night in the increase of the deposits, as s h o wing the prosperous state of the working classes, He (Mr. Williams) maintained, on the contrary, that the in crease of those deposits was no such indication, because the poorer classes did not form, by any means, the largest nor even b the k s prineip al.—(lJea portion of the contributors to the savings Hear, He knew that the deposi tors were, to an imm , ° lls e extent, persons not only in the middle n affluent circumstances- He knew that ranks, entire family would have r t their names in a saving s bank, every" one of them for the s h , em but e m in members s;: o i vfel arty ut m ost amount allowed by the re g ulationt, the father de riving the whole benefit , fr om the one p er cent •dditiorzal interest.—( Hear, hear.) For that advantage the con^trY I would, at a period of unusual depression, and of a conse quent run upon the banks, have to stand a loss of 4,000,000/ or 5,000,000/ principal. Now, if the savings banks were chiefly beneficial to the working classes he would not grudge this—( Hear, hear,)—but he did grudge it, knowing as he did that those classes formed but a small minority of the depositors.—( Hear, hear.) Let it not be forgotten that the fluctuations in the funds were such as the following 1825, Consols, 94, 1 1 , down to 77 ; 1827;89 - to 76i ; 1829 , 743: to 23k. The country was always, under the existing system, on the verge of a precipice. In 1825 Mr. Huskisson said the courary was within forty eight hours of a state of barter. Such a system ought to be n oBu:l Bank tentirely management, do e ne a quite way separate or rather, n d distinct' the h issuing p o s s wef i r n rom o ft shouldhe paper rest n o money o f the longer be continued in the establishment which had inflicted so much evil on the country, and had departed from every THE SUN, LONDON. TUESDAY, JULY 9, 1839. I fixed principle of banking, notwithstanding its engegernent in the Charter that it would abide by some fixed ride. The country lost more in one month by the system than • • it would gain in twenty years.. The issuing of paper mo • ney ought to be placed entirely under the control of Par!iament. He thought a Select Committee should be appointed to inquire into all the facts and determine upon the best course to be pursued, in order to place the system on a firm and solid basis, and prevent those changes which now so frequently occurred, and produced such ruinous fluctuations in the value of property.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. T. ATT WOOD said he almost entirely concurred in the speech of his lion. Friend the Member for Co ventry, but wished to say a few words in explanation of one point in which his Hon. Friend appeared to him to have been in error. His Hon. Friend was quite correct in ascribing the distress which had so often prevailed in this country to the action of the Bank, but he ( Mr. Att wood) believed it was utterly impossible for the Bank to have acted otherwise; that the Bank was a mere instru ment in the hands of the Government, and that thus it was that it had ruined thousands and hundreds of thou sands of families in its own defence. 'The Government had compelled the Bank to relax the screw upon the currency, In 1816 Lord Liverpool carried the continua tion for two years of the Bank Restriction Act, which would have expired in 1817, with a view of increasing the circulation of the Bank, which increased from 23,000,000/. to 30,000,000/. This relieved distress and brought a pros perity, which soon, however, passed away ; the Bank were compelled to relax their issues, and on the distress that followed to 1822, he need not express his opinions, which were well-known. Lord Castlereagh, to his surprise, found the country in a state of distress, and proposed in one day five monetary measures, maintain ing that it was a monetary distress. Of these five mea sures one was to renew the 11. note Act for eleven years, which meant, for ever. Another was to enable the Go vernment to borrow 10,000,0001. for the dead weight from the bank. Another to borrow 3,600,0001. from the Bank, (to force the circulation). Another to lend money to the East India Company and to landowners on mortgage. And if these measures had not been adopted the country would have been thrown into a most dreadful state of anarchy. If the country were not governed ill, there would have been no call for Radical Reform. He (Mr. Attwood) was a Radical, but he only desired to use Radicalism as a means of promoting the prosperity of the country ; and if he found the lower classes able to maintain themselves the House would have no trouble with him as a Radical. —( A laugh.) He believed the Bank of England had always done its duty. He had not found that the Bank Directors had, as they might have done, made dishonest fortunes. —( Hear, hear,: from Sir J. R. Reid.) When Mr. Jeremiah Harman and the Bank Directors had remon strated with Lord Grenville, who was as ignorant as a hog on these matters—( Laughter)—and said that they thought' the country could not bear the system—Mr. Jeremiah Harman, one of the best men in this world, or in any other world—(Laughter)—received from Lord Gren ville the answer—" Mind your own business—what have you to do with the country—leave that to the Government ?"—(" Hear," from Mr. Warburton.) The stoppage of the Bank of England would involve the stoppage of the Exchequer. and the stoppage of either, or both, would involve the discharge of every workman in England. It might be said that this would be recovered front—that there had been a general stoppage in America. There had been, and it had not yet been recovered from—but the system of banking there was totally different from the system here. Every individual in that country had a direct interest in the sup port of the Banks, but there was nothing of the sort here. The ruin produced would be so enormous that it would be impossible to distinguish between that which had been oc casioned by the act of the Government, and that which was the consequence of previous insolvency ; and besides, the depreciation in the value of all kinds of property would be so great, that a manufactory worth 20,000/. previously, would then be worth not more than 50/. All would be alike insolvent, and there would not be the slightest hope of escape from the most awful revolution. He would now state to the House how that panic had passed away. He ( Mr. Attwood) had prepared one-pound notes for three weeks before they were wanted. Doubtless the lion. Member for London would tell the House that the Bank had found a parcel of one-pound notes in a box ; they had done so, but that was only to the amount of half a million ; but he bad prepared a quantity long before, and if the Bank had not kept their clerks pretty active in signing the notes a dreadful crisis would have arisen. These notes were issued by the special order of Lord Liverpool, who had consulted him (Mr. Attwood) on the subject, and he had advised his Lordship to have them issued instantly, and they acted like a wet blanket on the panic. He told the 'Minister that they wanted a mass of money to meet the mass of debt. He told him that he ought to throw ten millions of 1,000/. notes into the circulation, and he did throw nine millions by the issuing Exchequer bills and the purchase of Consols, and this in eight days; and this the Bank did as the organ of the Government. He did not blame the Bank for this, but he did blame them when, only two months after, Lord Liverpool came down to the House and brought in a Bill for abolishing the one-pound notes, which was a violation of public faith ; he did blame them for not on that occasion saying to the Government, " No more of these tricks—you owe us thirty-six millions ster ling ; pay us this in sovereigns ; you set the first example, and pay your debts in standard gold." If such had been the language used by Lord Liverpool and Mr. Huskisson, they would have looked surprised ; for if they had put up the Crown of England to auction, and all the land of Eng land with it, and thrown in India to boot, and given twelve months' notice of the sale, they could not have raised thirty-six millions; and yet these men thought they were imposing no hardship on the Bank in compelling them to raise two thousand millions. In 1826, 1827, 1828, and 1829, the country was in a state of suffering; and in 1829 the Political Union was formed on this basis, that it was a great iniquity to force the people to pay debts, taxes, and rents which had been contracted in a paper currency, in a standard of gold. In 1833 the Noble Lord had brought forward other measures ; he had been compelled to relax the screw. Ile had said before that, that it was too late to retreat; but on that occasion the Government did retreat—they had retreated in 1816, 1822, 1825 ; and in 1823 Lord Spencer was again compelled to relax the screw, when, as the Right Hon. Baronet expressed, he twisted into the Bank Charter Bill the clauses, ono authorising the Bank to lend money to the Government, another making Bank-notes a legal ten der, and another authorising the formation of Joint-stock Banks, which deluged the country with paper in 1834, 1835, and 1836, and to which the country had been in debted for its prosperity during those years. This measure it was that enabled the Government to stay the march of anarchy, and to give contentment during those years. All his constituents of Birmingham were perfectly contented during that period, but the cause of it was not known except to statesmen. It was generally by the peo ple attributed to the Reform Bill. The public press knew the true cause, but wilfully concealed it. How was the adversity of 1837 produced ? The public press had been incessantly calling on the Bank to reduce their issues, and in 1836, the Bank had been compelled to force back the sovereigns from going abroad—the Bank had played the butcher. It had butchered tens of thousands of human beings—it had produced what was called the City fever, or the monetary fever, but what he called the Peel fever— he believed the Bank had actually produced the death of thous inds.—( A laugh.) Honourable Gentlemen thought he was exaggerating, but he would appeal to many Phy sicians and Surgeons who could bear out the truth of what he had stated. This measure had, besides depriving millions of bread, injured in a greater or less degree every merchant in England. The exchanges had been forced in oar favour, but with all this misery they had not been enabled to force back a sufficient supply of bullion. The iron interest and the coal trade were in a comparative state of prosperity owing to the immense demand for the supply of railroads ; and the shipping interest also was in a comp 'natively prosperous state, but every other branch of trade and commerce was suffering the most unbearable distress, which the people could not endure much longer ; they were killing them by inches, and the lion. Member for Leicester (he would not be Member for Leicester again—that laugh would throw him out)—was laughing at the idea of the Bank killing people.—( No, no, from Mr. Easthope.) Ile begged the Hon. Gentleman's pardon for having stated that he did so. —( A laugh.) Perhaps it was not at his statements, it was only at his manner that they were laughing.—( Cries of " Hear," and laughter, but he would warn them not to push the screw beyond endurance with a view to get back gold. They had no right to get back gold, no man had any honest right to have an ounce of gold in his possession ; they had retraced their steps and they must retrace their steps; there was no fraud in doing so, the fraud was the other way. His consti tuents, out of three days' work, were now compelled to pay in the shape of taxes, out of three days' work a week, more than, twenty years since, they paid out of six days' work a week. When the Bill had passed it was said that it could not make a difference of more than four per cent., but he had shown that it made a difference of more than 400 they this coulda fraud? not g, o on They in hadblin blindness muchbli d for per 2 c o e y nt as not ears, w but he longer, and if they would not rectif y the evil themselves, — t nature would do it in a manner not so agreeable to them. The Bank had recently been applying the screw, they had raised the rate of interest, 5} percent.; why did they not instead of doing this, say to the Government, " You owe us thirty millions—pay us." If they had said this to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, they would have done good to the country. If they would take his advice, he would say, keep the currency affluent, let the gold go abroad if it will ; when you come to the bottom of your purse issue one pound notes—( Hear, hear)—and when you cannot pay in gold you shall have a Restriction Act.—( Ironical cheers.) He hoped they would not press the screw too far, or they would produce an insurrection which, when it happened, would be touch and go. It would not produce a civil war, but a scene of universal confusion. When the war ended in 1815, they were told that all the distress was owing to surplus food, surplus population, and over trading ; that they were like flies in a honey pot, smothered by abundance. That was the Argument !held in 1816 and 1819, but now they talked about emigration, for the purpose of getting, rid of the surplus mouths. The Joint-stock Banks had done something towards prepping up the country, notwith standing the great outcry that had been made against them. Now, all the blame was thrown upon the Bank of England. He was surprised that lion. Members would not open their eyes, and look to the real truth. Parliament had been for 22 years attempting an impossibility, viz., that I the a F a r in g 800 millions of debt in gold. lie wished to support this ;netuire, not with a view of criminating the i3an for the purpose. of inquiring into the of the e ofl FA e sr . eet of which 34 . ik.l,(it be to show that every act h Bank of gogtstnd had been e oenpelled by the law. Now, with respect to the asses of the Bank of 1.4471;,n4, be did not believe then; the Bank had in Threadneedle-street more than 1,000,00 Q of sovereigns. It was utterly impossible that they could by any ,chance bawa :pore than 2,000,000 of bullion in their coffers, unless the Bank 4 !rance had lent them money as it did le 1625. Snell Fae,ia,g !nV attto of things, was it right that the Benlf thould victimise nue people to get back the gold ?—( [fear, ima.r.) if there were to be any victims let them be the Government. He trusted the Bank of ;ngland would relax the screw, and instead of increasing to pcil!ice their discounts to three per cent. In conclusion he Legere: to say that he would c ordially support the motion of his Hole. Frietid the Member for Kilkenny, lie had intende4 ; to Kaye 41 . oyo an amendment upon die amendment of his Hon. Friend, but as he had been ieorrned it would be out of order for him to do so, he should decline pursuine . that course. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he should occupy the attention of the House but for a very short period, as it was his intention to confine himself to the practical question, and not to be led away by the wild and theoretical speech of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. He did not know if he might venture to talk of the Bank of England, which, of the two circumstances that had occurred in that debate he should most regret, the attack that had been made against the Bank or the defence of their conduct by the Honourable Member who had just sat down. If the Honourable Member for Birmingham had defended them in their capacity of bankers, he had brought charges against them in another capacity. From the Bank Restriction Act down to the present time, he appeared enraptured with their procedings, and loved his mistress, not for her beauties, but her defects. Hear, hoar.) This, however, was not all—he could assure the House it was not his intention to follow the Honourable Member through the whole of his remarks, but lie wished to remove one or two impressions which had been created by what the Honourable Member had stated, which, if not contradicted at once in the most decisive manner, might lead, out of the House, in foreign countries, to the most extraordinary and extravagant mis apprehensions. The Hon. Member for Birmingham had informed the Governor of the Bank that he had in his pos session no less than ten millions of Exchequer bills.—( A laugh.) Could any one for a moment believe that such was the fact ? He had also adverted to what he called putting on the screw, or in other mords the efforts made by the Bank of England in the face of adverse Ex changes. He had stated that the effect of that was to re duce the price of wages ; he could not conceive on what ground the Hon. Member made such an assertion. He had stated also that if the country adhered to the present gold standard the effect would be to call upon the country to perform impossibilities.—( Hear, hear.) Then again, in part of his defence of the Bank of England, he had taken upon himself to state that the Bank were not in possession of one million of sovereigns.—( Hear, hear.) That was one of the fancies, doubtless, of the Hon. Member.— ( Hear, hear, hear, from Sir J. R. Reid.) Now, as te the practical part of the case. he should be sorry if the House or the country thought there was any indifference on the part of the Government on this subject. A more important subject than that which related to the affairs of the Bank of England could not by any possibility occupy the time of the House. Undoubt edly it was somewhat inconsistent with that, that there should be so thin an attendance of Metnhers and such inat tention at the outset of the debate. What was it that produced that result ? was it because he had overrated the importance of the subject? no such thing, for it did not necessarily follow that because the subject was important that therefore any motion that might be made with respect to it was one that was to create much interest in the House. The reason why there had been so thin an attend ance was, as he believed, that the great bulk of the Mem bers of that House were of opinion that there was no ground for appointing a Committee on the subject at that late period of the session. He believed that the mass of that House were disposed to think that it would he imprudent to enter into the inquiry at present. Upon what statements had his Hon. Friend the Member for Kilkenny grounded the motion—and what was the motion itself?—(The Right lion. Gentleman here read the notice of motion. ) The inquiry was, therefore, to have no limits; the whole transactions of the Bank of England were to be gone into, involving, as they did, the whole question of public credit and mercantile affairs for the last 30 or 40 years ; and then the motion concluded with a sweeping inquiry into the present constitution of the Bank of England, and whether, under that constitution, it ought to have the support of that House. If ever there was a subject which, if once entered into. would branch out into a vast variety of topics, it was the question now brought forward.—( Hear, hear.) What had the Hon. Member for Kilkenny said in justification of his motion, why, that he would not call a single wit ness before the Committee, but would appeal only to writ ten documents, and from them and them alone in fourteen days he would lay before the House the conclusion to which it ought to come. It was very easy for the Hon. Member to say so, but not quite so easy to accomplish. Did not the Hon, Member know full well that from those t t o lem ti e lo n se wo a u t l l t N i h c i r conclu sionsketohadar: very documents exactly th the many op osi Gteenrived, and thus the fourteen days might be extended to ten times that number ?—( Hear , h ear. ) Ile should sa y that, independent of all other re asons, the im p ossibilit y of bringing an inquiry of this description to any practical conclusion was of itself a sufficient objection. But he had still greater objections to the measure. A time might come, as it had come, in which it would be necessary when they were about to change the law with respect to the Bank, that a full and searching inquiry should be made into the manner in which the Bank had managed its affairs, and other occasions might arise when it was expedient to inquire into the general banking system of the country ; but with respect to the present proposed inquiry, he thought that discretion and expe diency showed clearly that at the present moment, when Gentlemen knew the exchanges were unfavourable, and when there was a considerable diminution of the amount of bullion in the Bank, and when it was known that the value of money had considerably increased, such an inquiry would only create a tendency to distrust. He must, there fore, on the ground of the state of the country, and of the other circumstances to which be had already ad verted, deprecate this inquiry. —( Hear, hear, hear,) The lion. Member for Kilkenny would recollect that when he spoke of an inquiry into the operations of the Bank last year, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had consented, provided there was to be no infraction of the bargain which the Government had made with the Bank, that inquiry should take place. So far matters rested last year. But if it were wise and prudent to consent to the proposition then, it was not equally judicious to assent to the motion when there was not sufficient time to complete the inquiry, and when nothing practicable could be proposed. On these grounds, be should resist the inquiry. The lion. Member bad also suggested as a fitting subject of inquiry the general principles of banking, and such ether a as ou the ght constitution t c o d f . the 3 th an r k of England especttot is or iieques is question n no o t f tt highestgeneral es principle pec respectof f for the b a decisionsn lsi g , although o Committeesf o f the House when confined to subjects which came legitimately under their consideration, he feared there were matters of revenue which could not come advantageously before them ; and he doubted very much whether that house or the public would receive such information from the Report of a Select Committee, as from the writings of men on a sub ject which they knew, and giving their opinions calmly and dispassionately. He would take the question of a single Bank of issue, and an extension of their paper cur rency, as subsidiary to a gold currency. That was one of the most important points that could engage their atten tion.—( Hear, hear.) That was the first point in the pivot on which the discussion would turn. Now, he would ask the House whether they and the public were not more likely to be instructed by the writings of such men as Mr. Loyd, Mr. Palmer, Colonel Torrent, and Mr. Gooch, than from the Report of a Select Committee of that House ?—( Hear, hear.) He did not quarrel with the present discussion, although he complained of it as inter fering with the other business before the House. There were many observations throWn cut which might ke beneficial to himself and the Bank, but he still contended that these were not matters to discuss before a Select Committee,— ( Hear, hear.) One suggestion, which appeared to him of sonic importance, and which he was satisfied had not escaped the attention of the Bank Directors, was the sepa ration of the Bank's transactions as regarded its issues and discounts.--( Hear, hear.) He did not think, however, that the solution of that question would be much assisted by the deliberations of a Committee. Another point was the system adopted by the 13ank of France ; but was: it likely, at so advanced a period of the Session as the month of July, they would be able to look into the question with a view to any practical results. He had also referred to the permanency of the Direction of that establishment. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was a friend to de mocratic institutions in connection with the monarchical system ; but it was a question with him whether the con stant vicissitudes of the officers of that establishment was advantageous to the Bank, or tended to the sta bility of the whole corporation. The principle of the French Bank appeared to him a better one than that adopted in England; but that was only a proof that a difference of opinion existed upon the subject. Other Gentlemen might think the continued changes and the popular mode of election a great benefit, but the question was one clearly beyond the decision of a Committee. He had endeavoured to show that there were reasons why the Committed should not be granted ; but there were a few incidental matters to which allusion had been made. The lion. Memberfor Birmingham, in defending the Bank, bad dealt out an unsparing measure pf censure on some who had been connected with the finances of the country. lie did not stand there to vindicate them ; but he would say a word as to the principles involved in the Hon. Member's statement, which could not be too strongly disclaimed on their parts. lie had said that Lord Grenville, in the most cruel and hard-hearted manner, had said he would not interfere with the Bank ; and the same charge was brought agoinst Mr. Huskisson. Why, if there was one duty more than anoth er which t he Government had to fulfil it was that of non-interference.—( Hear, hear.) If the Bank thought that whenever they were in a difficulty or in danger, the Government was bound to rescue them, and to come down with a Bank Restriction Act, and if Mr. Huskisson and Lord Grenville were to be reproved for not having taken that course, he must say that the Hon. Member understood the duty of a Government very diffe rently from him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), and held out a principle which he should be sorry to recommend. Another point to which the lion. Member for Coventry had alluded was one upon which he would say a word for the purpose o f undeceiv in g hi m. The lion. Member said it was the duty of the House and th e G overnment to d o a way with the savings banks, bec ause t h e pr i nc i p l e h a d been in some case s misapplied, and parties for whom it was not intended had a vailed themselves of th e p ro t ec ti on an d advantages these banks afforded. Now, although that might be the case the limitation in the amount of the de. posit showed that the evil could not his very extensive , and lie held in his hand a return taken from the last column of the Statistical Tables, by which it appeared that the number of depositors in England altogether were 506,273 persons, and of that immense number only 2,900 persons had deposits ever '..20 0 /. it was quite clear, therefore, that the fraud, if any were practised, prevailed to a very small extent. At that hour of the evening he would not occupy the attention of the House further. One word as to the West India loan before lie sat down. It was true the ciiscoL:cts had been paid much earlier than he (the Chan cellar of the 'k.l4nP,4-04srts had anticipated ; but when Hon. Members complained f that, tbq enoeld Lave the oucl nets to r e collect that the law compelfed him tornake the loan. When t h e opportunity was afforded him, with re speq, rem ainin five million s o f th e loan, he had created t . ti transferred it to the parties, Pg it Was requira4, apt „ -rlj , 4Crip r e nrinciple had been applied to the fifteenthd' embarrassment that resulted would have been obviated —there would have been no disturbance in the circulation, or the money market, and all would have gone 03 as quietly with the 15 millions, as it had done with regard to the five millions. He was not, therefore, respon sible for the difficulty, and should not have been taxed with the consequences of the loan. He thought he had shown that the inquiry could do no good. He had not ventured to undertake the defence of the Bank of Eng land, when ther e were o th er H on . M em b ers muc h more conversant with the transactions of that establishment. There might be facts and objections to the present sys tem ; but assuming all these he believed the inquiry could not be entered into with any practical advantage, and not without being productive of inconvenience to the commer cial public.—( Hear, hear.) Sir J. R. REID said it was then 10 o'clock, and four arcVa half more disagreeable hours he had never passed in his life.—(Much laughter.) He regretted to have heard so many and such general complaints against the Bank of England, but considering the source whence they came, he felt less than if they ha I emanated from any other quarter. He was sure the House would not wish him to go into any details at that late hour, but as complaints had been made relative to the circulation of the Bank, be held in his hand an account of the notes in circulation for six years, from 1833 to 1839. It was a curious circumstance how closely the amounts went together. In the year ending April 5, 1833 the circulation was... Xi 8,900,000 April 5, 1834 lB,-190,000 April 5, 1835, 18,500,000 April 5, 1836 18,400,000 April 5, 1837 18,300,000 April 5, 1838 18,300,000 April 5, 1839 That would show the House that the Bank was not the cause of the overtrading which had taken place, although that bad been attributed by the Hon. Member opposite to the excess of issues. lie bad also the average amount of the circulation for 13 weeks previous to and ending the sth April, :833, up to 1839, and he found the sums were 19,400,0001., 19,300,0001., 19,600,0001., and indeed the sums ran so closely that it was unnecessary to trouble the House with them. The average amount for each year ending the sth April, 1833, to 1889, were similar, and varied only in a very slight degree, ranging from 18,100.0001. to 18,600,0001., 18,500,000/., 18,400,0001., &c. There was one observation of the Honourable Member for Kilkenny which had exceedingly annoyed him when he said that the Bank Directors were instigated by private interests in a certain course they had adopted. Now he did most firmly and at the same time respectfully throw back that imputation with scorn— ( Hear)—having acted as he had done with twenty-four Gentlemen, as high-minded and as honourable as any others in the kingdom, he could not sit there and hear any man living assert before the House and the country that they were instigated by private motives.—( Hear, hear.) Another statement of the lion. Member was that the amount of bullion in the Bank did not exceed three mil lions That was not the fact. But he was not going to tell the Hon. Member what the amount was.—( Hear and laughter.) During 1836, when there was some ember rasments arising out of their American trade, he had stated that it would be only a passing cloud ; he would repeat the same expression in reference to the present crisis, if such it might be called. The fact was, the balance of trade had latterly been against them, and, as soon as exports took place the money would be returned to them • and he had no more doubt of seeing everything rectified before the Speaker left the chair for the recess than he had of seeing the sun rise the next morning. —( Hear, hear ) After the very disagreeable discussion that had taken place, he would not detain the House longer. But he did not hesi tate to say that the Bank of England were not in any way to blame for the embarassments that had taken place, and he could not permit the statements of the lion. Member to go forth 1 o the public without making these few remarks upon their incorrectness.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. GROTE wished, in a few words, to explain why he could not support the motion of his Hon. Friend for an inquiry into the late conduct of the Bank of England. He thought the inquiry of a Committee would be attended by very salutary consequences; he thought there was much to blame in it, but there was also much that appeared blameable, merely because it was not understood—( Hear) —but be could not conceal from himself that, at that late period of the Session, it would be utterly impossible to enter into such an inquiry as would prove at all satisfactory.— ( Hear, hear.) Had the motion been made three months previously, it would have met with his support. The Committee of 1832 tended more to promote discussion, and to diffuse correct opinions upon the currency than could possibly be done by pamphlets. It put the public in pos session of a large body of facts which were inestimable; it was attended also with the important advantage that Mr. H. Palmer, who held a very high station in the Bank, laid down the principles upon which the Bank ought to act. He was very sorry that those principles had been so unwisely departed from.—( Hear.) In a great part of what had fallen from his lion. Friend the Member for Kilkenny he entirely concurred ; in others helcould not go along with him. If the Bank were to adopt all of his plans, they would manage worse than they did now.— ( Hear, hear.) For instance he could not agree in his wish fur a uniform rate of interest on the principle of the Bank of France; he (Mr. Grote) blamed them for a wish to keep too near it, and for not taking more frequent ad vantage of an Act which was passed mainly at their insti gation, and which enabled them to raise the rate of inte rest when the state of the currency demanded it. He believed they were chargeable with not contracting the circulation when circumstances required it, but that did not arise from interested motives, but because they, being all merchants, and surrounded by merchants, from sympathy they did not in time take those precautions which the state of the currency demanded, and left it until much severer measures were absolutely necessary.—(Hear, hear.) He entirely went along with his Honourable Friend in condemning the system of making large bargains to supply country banks at a low rate of interest—such a system put it out of their power to contract the amount of the circulation at the point when it would be most proper. A Committee baying plenty of time might and would elicit much information on all these points ; and he only wished the Session was not so far advanced, so that all those points might be more fully explained. His Hon. Friend condemned the advances made upon stock, Exchequer bills, &c. He could not go along: with him in that. He thought that, provided' they had bona fide se curity, it mattered not of what sort, the Bank was justified if their advances did not make the circulation too large— if they did not exceed the demands of the currency. He must confess that the continued drain upon the Bank, il lustrated in a very clear and a very painful manner the mischievous working of the Corn-laws—(Cheers)—and he trusted it would cause reflection in the minds of those wbo supported them. He believed that the Bank and Joint-stock Banks—for in that case they were the same—were much more largely accused than they de ' served for causing fluctuations in trade. He believed that though they exaggerated the evils they were very seldom the originating causes of them. —( Hear, hear.) For these reasons he was sorry he could not support the motion of his Hon. Friend. Mr. W. ATTWOOD said the Hon. Baronet, the Go vernor of the Bank, had expressed himself warmly in res. pect of the charge made by the Hon. Member for Kil kenny, and justly so. He for one, and he believed he was expressing the opinion of the mercantile community gene rally, must acquit the Directors of the Bank of any inte rested motives.—( Hear, hear.) He did not believe that any considerable portion of the community held any other opinion. The Directors of the Bank were chosen from the most eminent of the commercial body—were well ac quainted with the mercantile interests, and were capable of taking care of those interests. While he was not ready to concur with the Hon. Member for Kilkenny in casting censure on the Bank, yet he might have supported the motion, if the Chancellor of the Exchequer had not opposed it, and thereby throwing great responsibility on those who supported it. He (Mr. Attwood) thought they were indebted to the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, for giving them an opportuuity of discussing a question that was so important, and was o f opinion no complaint could be made against him, either for making the motion itself, or on account of the period of the Session, at which he had brought it forward.__( Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer had endeavoured to excuse the House for manifesting an indisposition to listen to the Honourable Member for Kilkenny, and had stated that while he was speaking, the attendance of Members was very slight. He ( Mr. Attwood) thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer might have spared that excuse if he had considered the manner in which debates, even on the most important subjects, were attended to at the time the Hon. Member for Kilkenny addressed the House. —( Hear, hear.) The Chancellor of the Exchequer was not justified, therefore, in saying the House had given a tacit condemnation of the motion by the very slight attend. ance of Members. He might have rested his opposition on the other ground he bad taken—that no good resulted from Committees of Inquiry on such subjects, although be (Mr. Attwood) could not but recollect that most important principles of legislation bad been stated in the facts that had emanated from those Committees. Then the Chan cellor of the Exchequer had said the appointment of a Committee would create distrust in the minds of com mercial men. If the affairs of the Bank influenced so much the commercial world, it was far better that the House should take cognizance of them than close the Session without having had the subject brought un der its consideration. if there was any doubt as to the adequacy of the bullion in the Bank to meet the demands upon it, and the Directors should feel themselves bound to take more stringent measures to meet those demands, let the House consider what the effect of that would be on the commercial world, and whether an . , sliscussion could make the matter worse. What was the present position of commercial affairs as connected with the regulations the Bank had thought it necessary to adopt after the drain on its bullion ? He would take the liberty of reading an extract from the " Bankers' Circular," a publication frequently referred to, of the 21st June, which was this : We have made diligent inquiry as to the state of busi. ness among commercial parties, and the facts are that the Bank of England refuses to discount bills that come through the medium of Joint-stock Banks or speculators it corn and cotton. Those commodities, as well as colonial pro duce, are marked for reduction in value." The meaning of these expressions conveyed to every merchant was this—that upon the stocks which they held they must anticipate a loss of 15, or 20, or 25 per cent. The decision of the Bank of England was, that in order to save the commerce of the country, it was necessary there should be a fall in price. The restriction of the circulation of the Bank would be a mere unmeaning phrase, unless it were accompanied by a fall of prices, espe cially in connexion with bills of exchange. Sir J. RAE REID assured the lion. Gentleman that the Bank placed no restriction whatever upon bills of exchange. Mr. W. ATTWOOD was very glad to receive this as surance, as the contrary had bees circulated through the country, and had appeared in almost every newspaper. He believed, however, there wits & practical interdiction plired by the Bank upon all bills offered for discount which had passed through a Joint-steels Bank. Here lie desired ;t to be understood that he did not convey the slightest personal imputations upon the Directors of the Bank. lie knew tnooe gentlemen to be selected from the first mer chants in the City of London, and he alluded only to them as illustrating the commercial difficulties of the times. There In.d been a great deal of difficulty and distrust ex cited in the public mind towards the Bank by articles in ' newspapers, while the House seemed to be very indifferent on so important a question. The Bank Charter must come again under the discussion of the House in 1842 ; hut. considering the magnitude of the interest of the question it would not be at all premature if the Honourable Mem bers should already ‘!irect their serious attention to it. A difficulty had arisen which might test the credit of the Joint-stock Banks. It was supposed by registering the proprietors of Joint-stock Banks against whom any cre ditor might proceed, a security would betiven which did not attach to other Banks. But a case had arisen which gave this a different character. A bank had suspended payment, but the proprietors who were enrolled denied their liability. That, therefore, was a new feature, which might produce fatal consequences. There might be some remedy against the person who had made the false enrol ment of the proprietors, but the creditors had no remedy against the person who might be enrolled. He mentioned this merely to show how great was the difficulty of legis lating on subjects of a novel character. One of the greatest improvements which was thought to have been introduced, was the principle of publicity in the accounts of the Bank of England. It was said by those who introduced it that the effect would be to render it impossible that a difficulty should any more take place. Now he would ask, had that effect been realized? and whether there had not been reason to recollect the evidence of one of the most influential witnesses examined, he meant Mr. Rothschild, who was questioned before the Bank Charter Committee, particularly upon the question of publicity. He said it might be very well for the Bank to publish their accounts, while their bullion was 10,000,0001., one third of their liabilities; but he should be very sorry to be the Governor of the Bank of England, if he had to publish an account when the gold in the Bank was below 5,000,000/ ; because he should be under great apprehension of stopping payment, unless he had in his pocket at the time an order from th e Ch ance ll or o f t h e E xchequer to stop his issuing any more bullion. The only other objec tion made to the motion of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny was, that it embrac e d fif teen or twenty years, and that theinquiry would be so extensive. During that time many new measures had been proposed to the Houso, and many measures had been adopted, the effect of which was to prevent those violent fluctuations of the circulation which were so much dreaded. The Hon. Mem ber for Kilkenny had some strong ground for imagining that some blame was attributable to the Directors. He ( Mr. A.) did not say there was any blame attributable to them, but he thought there were grounds for inquiry ; and ' though it might not be expedient this Session to proceed to the inquiry, he trusted the House would not be insen sible to the present state of the country, and that at some future period it would be prepared to take the subject into its consideration, its order to place the finances and com merce of the country on a footing of stability and security. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ex plained. Mr. CL AY would briefly state his reasons for opposing the motion of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. Ile did not wish to throw any blame personally on the Directors; hut he thought there could be no doubt existing in the mind of any man that very great mistakes had been com mitted by them, though not to the extent mentioned by his Hon. Friend. It could no longer be matter of doubt that they misunderstood their position in 1824. In 1836, when moving fur the Committee on Joint Stock Banks, he had warned the Directors and the public of the difficulties which were likely to arise from their lending Joint-stock Banks large sums of money at !ow interest, and over which, when they had once parted with it, they had no controul ; and he believed those difficulties had already been felt. Considering the large demand for corn which arose in this country last year, he was perfectly con vinced that the screw had not been applied in time. Evi dence of all those facts was already before the House, and the Committee was therefore unnecessary, as was proved by the fact that his Hon. Friend did not intend to call any evidence, but meant to rest his case upon the documents upon the table. Now he thought a Committee was for the purpose of collecting information, not for digesting that which was on the table. He believed that the errors of the Bank arose from the anomalous functions which they had to discharge. They were not in a proper posi tion to be the conservators of the currency, for they had to attend to the interests of a large body of proprietors, whose interests were diametrically opposed to those of the public. Again, in their situations as men of business, sym pathizing with those around them, it was impossible they could perform their duties as conservators of the currency for the benefit of the public. for it was precisely when the currency was in excess that they were called upon to in crease their issues. What was the remedy to be applied to the evil ? There his Honourable Friend stopped. He did not even hint at what was to be done.—( Hear, hear.) The public, however, were beginning to take a proper view of the case—they now thought the conser vancy of the currency ought to be in the supreme power, and that whatever advantage arose from a paper over a metallic currency should belong to the public, and he trusted when the Bank Charter was next discussed that the currency would be taken out of the hands not only of the Bank but of Joint-stock Banks also. He could not support the motion of his Hon. Friend. Mr. E A STHOPE, while he did not profess to eulo gise the Directors of the Bank, at the same time he would not blame them as the authors of those sufferings so feel ingly depicted by the Hon. Member for Birmingham.— ( Hear, hear.) Ths Directors were as honest and honour able a body of men as could be found in London—he did not object to them, but he was determinedly opposed to the system, and he hoped the time would soon arrive when they, in a body, would refuse to remain in the ano malous situation they now filled.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Bank Directors must, under the present system, be unable properly to discharge their duty to the public in regulating the currency of the country. The public dis tresses had led to a discussion which might tend to a be neficial practical result, for it had been suggested that it would be highly desirable to make the professed publicity of the Bank proceedings a real publicity.—( Hear, hear.) Who could doubt that Mr. Rothschild knew often the amount of bullion in the Bank, and so conducted his pro. ceedings ?—( Hear, hear.) And ought not every man of capital and industry to have the same means of ascertain ing how to regulate his course?—( Hear.) The publi city should be clear and plain, without any mystification. In respect to the expansions and contractions of the cur rency, the public must often necessarily suffer from the situation of the Bank Directors; to regulate the currency of a country like this, ought to be the duty of men having nothing else to look to.—( Hear, hear.) The Bank ought not to be one of deposit, and of issue also-- the two functions were incomratible. He should vote for the inquiry, though he was afraid that not much could be done this Session. He was glad to hear from the Hon. Baronet (Sir J. R. Reid) that the present was only a passing cloud; he trusted it might be so, but it must be a painful thing for the Bank Directors so to contract the issues, as to produce such general distress. Mr. TURNER said ho was for inquiry, but feared that in the the present Session it could lead to no practical result. He was firmly convinced the Bank of England was safely entrusted with the power it had, but he did not think it had a right to single out any portion of society for its victims.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. WALLACE would vote with great satisfaction for the motion of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny if pressed to a division. In two previous Sessions the Hon. Member endeavoured to effect the same object he was now seeking to accomplish, but had always been met with the objection that the proper time had not arrived for the inquiry. There was every probability that the Session would last four weeks more unless something extraordinary turned up, and if the Committee was granted the Honourable Member for Kilkenny would be able before the conclusion of the Session to make out such a case as would force the Government to take such steps as were necessary for placing the currency on a sound footing.. Stringers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided. The numbers were— For going into Committee of Supply 93 For Mr. Hume's motion.. Majority against Mr. Hume's motion-- -64 The House then went into COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. Colonel SIBTHORP then rose to move for the re duction of the duty on Fire Insurance, when The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER trusted the Gallant Officer would not at present press his motion. He wished now merely .to take such votes as were not objected to. Sir R. PEEL thought justice could not be done to such a discussion at this late hour (1 2 o'clock). Perhaps it would be better to bring the matter forward on the next Supply night. Colonel SIBTHORP was always ready to take advice from this side the House.—( Hear and laughter.) He would now be guided by the Right :lon. Baronet, and postpone his motion, and bring it forward on the first Supply day. Mr. F. BARING then proposed a vote of 77,000/. for the salaries and expenses of the two Houses of Parlia ment. Mr. lIUME wished to have a detailed statement of the expenses laid before the House. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER said this had never yet been done, and it would be incon venient for one House to interfere with the expenses of the other. Mr. AG LION B Y said this House had a right to know the expenses, although it might not be proper to inter fere with them. They had a right to know the general details of the expenses of the House of Lords as well as of the House of Commons. The vote was then agreed to, as were the following:- 48 0001. for defraying the expenses of her Majesty's Treasury. 19,5801., the expences of the office of the Secretary for the Home Department. 56,1171., the expences of the Foreign Office. 17,6781., the expences of the Colonial Office. 24,0001. for the expences of the Privy Counc il. 35,2351. for defraying the expellees of her Ma jesty's State Office. 17,1201. for the expellees of the Comptroller of the Ex chequer Offiee. Sir R. PEEL moved that a sum not exceeding 28,835/. be granted as the annual vote for i defraying the expences of the British Museum. It was a .arger grant than before, as 12,0001. was wanted for removing the Library to the new building, and 1,000/. for arranging and printing the new Catalogue. The Trustees hoped next y ear greatly to reduce the expences. In answer to Mr. NYSE, the Right Hon. Baronet said, the Trustees now furnish copies of the Elgin Mar bles to any one who asked for them, at a price which had been made e xtensively known. The Trustees did not wish to profit by them, but they could not spend the public money in that wa y without the consent of the Treasury. After a few words from Mr. O'BRIEN and Mr. PRIME, Mr. HUME asked what was to be done as to the en graving of the valuable collection of coins? Mr. HAWES said the Trustees had memorialized the G o v ernment, and h e h o p e d a f avoura b le v i ew would be taken of the application —to effect what would be a truly na -1 tional work.—( Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the aub;ect was certainly one of great interest, but thy* EVENING EDITION. were other, and more immediately pressing, claims.— ( Hear, hear, from Col. Sibthorp.) The GALLANT CoLoKrn instantly rose and expressed his surprise thrit the Right Hon. Gentleman, without a shilling in his Treasury—(Laughter)—should talk about fresh expenses. The vote was agreed to. The next was 2,0061. for salaries of Professors in the Universities.—Agreed to. On the vote of 12,500/. for the Commissioners of the Insolvent Debtors' Court, Mr. HUME said he bad hoped this expense would have been got rid of by the Abolition of Imprisonment for Debt Bill. Mr. HUME observed that this Bill referred only to arrest and mesne process.—Vote agreed to : as was the 17,0001. for the Milbank Penitentiary. On the vote of 5,308/. for the Ne . w Prison for Juvenile Offenders at Parkhurst, Isle of Wight, Mr. PEASE complained of tome appearance of par tiality—( A laugh)—in the selection of those who were to be sent to the prison. . - Lord J. RUSSELL disclaimed any such partiality, but said it had been necessary at first to be rather limited in the number of inmates, now however the number was increased. Vote agreed to—with 2,136/. f,,r the State Paper Office. And on the vote of 5,1001. for the Criminal Law Com mission, Mr. lltiNlE having inquired as to the result of this Commission, Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that very valuable in formation relative to the Criminal Law would be collected by this Commission. Colonel 6IBTHORP protested against votes for de fraying the expenses of Commissions being agreed to at such an hour (half-past twelve) and in such Houses. lie was astonished that the Hon. Member for Kilkenny could sit quiet when such votes were proposed. Mr. HUN! E thought it would be more satisfactory if the names of the Commissioners were given. The vote was agreed to. 1,456/. was voted for defraying the expenses of the Commissioners for inquiring into the petition of the un employed hand-loom weavers. 3,000/. for defraying the expenses of the Ecclesiastical Commission. ]03,618/. for defraying the salaries of Consuls and Vice• Consuls abroad. And 87,786/. for the salaries of Clerks employed in the Pub lic Offices. The House then resumed. Lord MORPETH brought up the report on the Muni. cipal Corporations (Ireland) Bill. The discussion was fixed to be taken on the third reading. The Election Petitions Trial Bill was read a third time, after a clause had been introduced providing that the re cognizances in the case of the Ludlow petition should stand for next Session, when the Committee can be ap pointed under the new svitem. On the question that the Bill do pass, Lord MAHON called the attention of the House to the question as to whether the evidence given before Commit teesshould be printed or not. Sir R. PEEL said the better plan would be to leave the printing to the discretion of the House. The Bill was then passed. The Municipal Corporations (Ireland) Bill went into Committee pro forma, for the purpose of making some verbal alterations. The House resumed. The Parochial Cure of Souls' Bill went into Committee. Mr. HECTOR said it was disgraceful the House should be proceeding with business at that late hour (20 minutes to 2), and he would, therefore, move the Chair man report progress.—( Cries of " No, no.") Mr. WILLIAMS said, no one understood the nature of this Bill, and he thought it was too much to ask them to pass it through Committee. The CHAIRMAN said the Bill had gone through Com mittee. He then reported the Bill. The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD withdrawing his Copy right Bill in consequence of the lateness of the Se:,sion. Mr. G. PALMER obtained leave to bring in a Bill to prevent ships loading any part of their cargo of timber upon deck after the Ist day of September next, and before the Ist day of May 1840, from any British port of North America. Mr. WILLIAM WILLIAMS moved for a Copy of the Certificate of the Conveyance from the Crown to Jas. Watt, Esq., of the manor of Iscoed, in the county of Rad nor, and of all Schedules and other documents annexed thereto or grounded thereon, with the dates or periods at which such certificates, schedules, and documents were respectively made : alto for a copy or return of all the surveys and valuations of the said manor made on behalf of the Crown, previous or subsequent to the sale thereof.— Ordered. The House adjourned at Two o'Clock. THE MARKETS--(YESTFRDAY.) 231 READ . , e metropolis is W., for the Eb. PRICE sit The highest price of Bread in the Loat. (,Food Bread may he had at Sd. PRICES OF SEEDS.-July 8. Per Cwt. re , ., Quarter. New English Red C10ver...706.1105. St. Foin 405.441 490 Old Ditto Ditto -s. -3. -s I Rye Gr.ts u 28s, 355. 406 New Foreign Ditto ...603. 70s. SOs. t'acev Grass s. 40s. 45s Old*Ditto Ditto -a. -s. -3. ILinseeti, for feeding 465. 525. 565. New White Clover sos. 606. 70s. i I :itto, for sewing -s. 58s. 63a Old Ditto Ditto -s. -s.•-s, i Ditto, for crushing. r .-s. 43 3 . 50s. New Trefoil 17x.201. VA. Canary -1 90s. 118 s. Old Dtto ....S. I.S. "23 ' Hemp -a. 38s. 4316. Trefolitun 10s. I Is. 13s. Per II ustieL English Carraway -s. 4Ss. 52:. White Mustard...lls. 04. 15s. Pd. Foreign Ditto -..., <MR SOs. Brown Ditto . ..... 15s. (tci. 225. tide Coriander . -.8 0 11,1. 255. Tares 4s. 6d. 5,0? Rapeseed, English tine per Last) 361. 38/....... Foreign 34/. Yj. PR ICES OF POTATOES AT SP Fr A LEI ELDS, York Reds (from vessel) V Os. to 6/ Os. per 'ton. Scotch Reds ditto 3l. 114. to 4/. Os. &AG Kidneys 4/. 1113. to 51. 4*. ditto Shaivs 2/. Ds. to 31... 1.,. ditty PRICES OF HOPS.-.lttly e s . Pirnham Pockets (per cwt.) 6l Os. 'II. Ms. to 101. Gs. East Kvnt Pockets. ; .... 4l W.. 51. .15.3. to SI. ii. Ditto Bags ..... ............. - as. r.sl 101 to 71. 10, Mid Kent Pockets n/ . 15s. 5/ . . 55 . . to 43/ 14.. Ditto Bags ........ :u. lOs. 4/. 104. to 7:. 7s. Sussex ............. 34 3s. 31. 151. to 41. Ins, Yearlings 24 I ft 31. 34. to 41. 4s. Old Olds COAL MARKET.-July S. d. Riirdon I. Main IP 9 Chester Csrr's Hartley 2O 0 Holywell Main 2O ti Leaze's Main l7 o Ord's Itedh ugh Pontop Windsor 2O ti Tantield Moor 2.1 0 Tanfied Moor Butes 2l • Townley lB ti West ihrtley 2O 6 NV y lam. Walls Mal Bell and Brown 21 3 Walls End Bewicke and Co 2l 6 Walls End (osforth Walls End Hilda on 5 Walls End Hotspur Walls End Kiliingworth IN) 6 Walls End Newmarch 2O (1 Walls Ead Peareth Walls End Smith .. 19 (1 .hips arrived since L Walls End Todd's Bentham 11 l d. 0 Walls End Walker 2l Eden Main W 0 Walls Endßraadyll'sHetton 2. a Wails End Haswell ZI 9 Wallz End Stewart's ..... Walls End Landiton t.3 9 Walls End Hartlepool ":3 9 Wall, End Adelaide 22 3 Walls End Barrett Walls End Barrington Tees 19 6 Walls End Seymour Tees—. ,21 0 Walls End Tees 22 6 Walls End Tennant Walls End West Hetton 2l 0 Walls End We-t Tees Walls End Wendleston 2l 6 ('owpen ... 19 6 Hartley Howard's Netherton Main 19 0 last market thy. 0. COUNTRY CORA AlAttlaETS. Per go:incr.! s. to s. j P. to S. Boston Gainsborough.; 81 Grant 70 84 4361110 n IR2 t3B flornt n.:t le ! (I 2 80 Lincoln ...... I7O 77 Spalding — SO St:nun:ad 37 29 aa 34 40 32 37 3L 42 35 In 33 f;iiC •-• - .1 Wheat. Barley. Oats. Dearly. 1 Pease. A. tO s. A. to 8. IS. e. 27 31 !40 42 - 28 44 24 28 '34 46 I 22 90 • 'AS 48 !3G 38 9.0 14 1361 42 I 20 'l9 43 50 1 - j 21 25 36 44 24 26 132 44 I LRKETS. 70 8() i 26 3:1, SCOTCH M ‘S heat. liarlcy. 32 to 34 27 30 24 26 126 31 34 37 :'6 SS 35 36. ' 27 23 31 23 26 measure va ON CORN Barley. 43s rid 41a Od Oats. Beans, Oatmeal. 11serdeen Berwick Coldstream Cupar Dunbar Elgin Inverness Kelso 76 to 75 42 52 55 48 65 6t 72 OS 70 65 US 46 54 64 77 (30 ^6 lire of the 1)1)1NG fl Wheat. First Od Second I Cas Lid Third Ws .01 Average..... DA LK EITH Wheat. 72s (ki 62s Od 469 Od 23 to 20 23 25 17 18 19 22 39 39 8 35 27 2A 1t 23 20 23 20 '22 ries througl NARKE'I Oats. 35s Od 325 fid 3fls 0 31. 34.5 d. ( ARKET.— Oats. I 35s 4d 32s Od 24. Od -- to —_ 30 32 —3O 22 2ti 40 42 3 34 32 33 M 34 45 48 2 2 25 'flout the ci I.—July 5. ?ease. 49s Od 4z,s Od 46, Od o.l2ths. —July 4 Dense. 52s t3d 46. Od 40s 0.1 4ti to 48 47 50 40 42 Kirkaldy Perth ...... 43 -. Ce Tho i HA Beans. 47a Od 43, Od 494 Od 39s Od ...... CORN N Barley. Stl3 04s (k 1 rirct Second Third Beam. 4ti. OA 40s Od _ EISINBURGIII CORN MARKET.—JuIy 3. We hail a large supply of all kinds of Grain t.-day,and the sales Wert rather dull. Wheat. Barley. First I 76a. Od. I 43s Od. Second 6 0 89 0 Third Average price of Wheat. PRICES OP PRI I Oats. Pease. Beat's. 38s. Bd. 40s. 01. 48s Od NO 0 44 0 44 II 28 0 42 0 42 U .....3/. 5u 24. /VISIONS, S.C. _. - -- Beef, per lb. ............ os. sd. to Os.titi. Freshßutter, lb. I s . OJ, to Is. 2.1. Mutton 0 fi 0 S Salt Ditto.,..--... 0 9 I s) Veal 0 7 1 0 Ditto, per cat... 80 0 1011 9 1'0rK.„..........—......... 0 5 0 7 Eggs, per des.... 0 0 o o Ci 90 s Il i hia a r y l p y e D rs it t l ......... o ......II Lam, per qr. 3 0 5 0 OatStraw(kpi.)..l2 0 15 41 fallow, rwt...........40 0 45 0 Wheat Ditto...-111 0 12 a g 10 EDINP,I.IIIGH MEAL MARKET.—J u I y 2, p ro u t a a r t t o e e r s n . Loaf ....... U 96i naataet, and B pe d u rle e rn me : tin sales were rather heavy. ILI 0 BarleynAeal....... ..... o 1 hi There pe r w sa as c a k m a i d 2s ol d I I n b r . 1 7 2: p p . p lB. ly 0 00 f Oatmeal s,:eve ao.pneldeinr,:si, at tit tioto.nh. . e. i . 5 ..0... d ..t... a ...i.... y 4.... ' .1. 5 ..4.....1...........1: .1: 14s. --3 d IS. h X° 10 0 - First Oatmeal„ Fitst Oatmeal Second ditto._ 1 ,,,, B u iey—No. loci cwt. 12..-2,,t , mi—ocl.....er—a.t.lt.siness doing In Orlin; prices 1 ,.,,, i , 2 0s . --.lt ,10s. GLASGOW CORN M ARKET.--July 3. Wh ea t, per 2401 b. s. tl. a, ( i„ Oats, per 2841 h. s. d. s. d. British, old :i7 oto :IA 9 Irish - --new I 2Bll 32 0 British 4201.270 £4, 0 27 0 Canada, free 34 0 :34i 0 Beans, per 2601 b.• Irish Barley, per 3201 b. Scottish -`) 0 ' 23 0 Engiith .................. 31 9320 Pe St. t• h LI 5c0t 5h i5 h......................... 28 0 3i 0 Oaatsee 1 -ti tiii 4nii; 23 0 24 0 Ir ........... 26 029 0 Flou m r, a per P llb •.......... s.teady:o,no ' 29; 1! CORNWALL MARKETS. (Calculated at !A gallons to the bushel.) Wheat. Barley. ! O a t s. ' B . d. to t. d. s. d. to s. d. a. d, ;717 Truro.,“ - ' 25 0 0 12 0 0 10 0 Helstone - - .th 0 — 0 92 0 `,B 0 St. Austell — 0 *23 6 0 9 6 —0 b" Bodmm 0 24 6 -- 0 • 5 0 LEkeard 0 22 i' 0 ~ 6 0 7 0 Launceston Camelford 2l 0 24 0— 0 iu il 7 0 8 0 Penzance 24 0 26 o,—. 0 11 0 d 0 0 MINING INT] Quantity of Copper Ore sold Quantity of tine Copper Average Produce Amount of Sale,2l,ls4(S' ELLIGENCE Tons.Cwt.Qrs 4.132 21 310 7 75,4 -Average Standard.lo4/, 15 3 . od. On Wednesday evening last the Baptist Ch ape l , in East-streot, was crowded to excess, to hear a detailed account of the horrors of slavery, as it exists at the present time in America, by Moses Roper, a young man who haul mado his escape from slavery in that country, Several instruments of torture were exhibited, and the way in which they were used explained. The lecture was listened to with the deepest attention throughout, and it must have excited in the minds of malty persons feelings of disgust, that in America, the boasted land of freedom, slavery of a more classing kind titan ever disgraced the colonies of Britain should have so long existed.—Hampshire Telegraph. entry. I 14: L.