The Sun. — London, England, 1839-02-19 00:00:00

....... ...'...."'". urying " ay ; s say : L. r the ships w ell wig& 1;tiOn• frOrn what m 2 nu- your i3ce.: ire', is Lt ) •ou t that &sir what Is e to Lords ,ngtish breign I t a it might o ciety. ho at the t.ctures !s and a r t , ese •ers in Lieg e ' iernbei where twist►. old by and of other, ce the e man ant this at they said, anufac cnanu' 110 ILSWS as with trade but hind :.:,.ail !ze 'eeeer." The beunty was tdaert off in 1773 ; but 1773 :led 1774 were the begiening °C the mos t reinerkable Cr;a_ and I vvi;i say the proudest era in th e hi story of tlie ceuriti le The mines of this country, and of Wales es ; :eciaiiy, teaming with wealth, Ive , 'e then first fill/3T explored, you-ing out their r ides to Ethe surface, that not only aggrand!zed their P" ) ° 3 sors but were instantly worked up into innumerable tools and engines nee maahinery of lee most exquisite and, most vigorous description, by ehieli rocks tevh,,,nr:uh(li: n st r ed, and trees felled, eed foreats cleered, and all roducc worked un into the finest :nanufactures— the infinite skill, at the same tire, of rae.nufectairioe inge fleit-y, exerted to cid the wealth which the bowels of too earth 'poured out, till by tie spinning jenay, and tr im= most extraordinary feats performed by the new Power of steam, enlarging the sphere of human potency, giving man almost a new existence, as well as a new 'dominion upon the earth, the whole lace of nature was changed by the aspect of art, and this country became that which she now is—that which God forbid she should ever cease to be—one large, wealthy, industri °es, ingenious, expert, and skilful workshop of the m oat labo r i ous , meat i ngen i ous , an d I w ilt a dd, f rom intimate knowledg e o f th em , th e wor thic-t, I '.fishT "aid add, the wealthiest of mankind. This was the Peri o d of manufacturing prosperity-- not blessed with Peace, but in spite of broken peace, bearing up against a rui nous war, overcom i ng b y t h e s kill an d i n d ustry o f one class of men the clients of the fatal—or, but for theta- Ireelth and'worth, would have been the effects of the pro fligacy, of anotherset of men—and during there years, notw ithstanding ten years of one war and ten Years of another, the genius of Washington, the successes of Napoleon, and all the competition by land tted by water to which our rights and our commerce were el P'eti all this could not tame these wonderful men to - "oat we owe so much — Quo% neque Tydides, nec Levisceus Achillis Non omni domuere decem, non mille carinre. ..My Lord s , see t h e consequences o f a ll this, and from these these con s e quences d observing that during 'lc self-same years the price of agricultural produce was ex ''etlY double, esti von have the slightest reason, can I" have the least ier na ini ng ve stig e o f d ou bt, th a t Si r tv:isttil_ahtrCailLis u ld was rightt when he said, it shall never be well (ntting manufactures), but land. too shall d •'tosh ? 1 ray, these manufactures were ',he cause of A nu bittnr the value of almost every estate in this realm. th t e'n I ask you to look with what coefidenee and with 'that little dismay you can on the. evidence I am r :Nly to produce at your" Lordships' bar. The Corn-la w s ,z l l4 ,giving wings t o these manufact u r es t o fl y away t h a t or c eeled in value in the course of 30 or 40 years, in spite L every landed estate in th 6 country. These, my t 0 Hear are . the grounds of my request to your Lordships ear evidence at the Bar. I offer to prove upon oath the destruction of the corn . trade by the Corn-laws. I offer to prove upon oath the removal of alt security against tßene by th e C oin -laws., I offer to prove upon oath the le e t'antion of a ll p r i ces a t a ll t i mes b y t h e Corn-lairs. I utt r to prove upon oath the equalization of prices abroad " at home, prevented by the Corn-laws. I offer to l';ave upon oath your manufactures destroyed rather than 7 o uraged by the competition ag 1, ainst the manufactu r ers dell the Corn-laws create. I offer to prove, by evidence oath at that Bar, the destruction of the ex port trade 'of this country by the destruction of the farei. z,n market for the manufactures of this country by f bn s'ne Corn-laws ; and with the proposition with which Z.j,:an I n ow c l ose my statement , or rat h er my to d er of ' t l lenee to y o u r L or d s hi ps , t h at if :a ll t h ose e i ght propo n, I °'ls I hav e now state d are refused —if the request I 6renled upon the statement of th em i s d en i e d me —if l am not to be allowed to give evidence of all those eight seve ral Nopcitiona which I have now illustrated and concluded _I3Y en umerating —that refusal can only be grounded on one ' to r, either of these arguments—either that you admit them be true, and require no proof of them—or that i w ° ,, ,l Say that they all impossible to be true, and that it ti ukl be childish to hear evidence open them—or that 6 " e eY are wholly immaterial, and therefore it signi haBvettoth ing whether they are proved or not. Now I v ._ shown, that as to the two last propositions but are not impossible —that they are not improbable, "it must be true ; therefore there but remains my first ground upon which you refuse me, viz.—that you admit theta all to be true, in which cast I take them to be as de eldedly proved as if I had brought forward evidence to p r ove them, and. I ground upon that which you ad m it t o be w ! I F on a ll hands, my said eight several propositions, upon 'ltch my Noble Friend n o t now h ero w ill:p ro b a bly move 'erne resolution. I pray your Lordships to pause before You reject these pr o p os iti ons , un l ess y ou are di spose d to reject them with an explicit admi ss i on o f thetruth of them aotile way I h ave state d . F or b e ye we ll assured, i f you reject them, the day will come when you will r ate, You had b e t ter h ave t h oug h t tw i ce w h en i t w i l l b e too te, and wh en repentance w il l not supply the place of Soar acceptance of the render on this occasion. I know . 1 20 body of men less likely to be in the remotest degree in fluenced by anything like the least approach to, or sem blance of, a menace. I never knew a Senate less likely to be moved by anything of that sort ; therefore what I have kindly and what I am going t o sa y i s ten d ere d to y ou as a I 'edly sad as a hearty advice, not a menace. But, my Lo r d s , I know that that advice will not be lost on you. I know that you will kindly take it into your candid and most serious consideration; and I add but one word t° re to induce your Lordships to listen to the prayer of ~ re - se petitions, their prayer to be heard, not by Counsel, ,° r , You cannot hear them by Counsel, according to your but by witnesses—and that is, that whatever resolu .l" 3 .0 u shall come to—suppose you were ev e n re so l ve d Zy our o v e n minds to do nothing against the Co r n-l a ws at ~i , t r o i''God-sake do nothing against the Corn-laws ; or !:0 them, re-enact them, resolve never to say a word e utu a l. ""r a word to be sa id aga i ns t t h em , f or t h e eau e e ' but do that after h ear i ng a ll th e ev id ence t h a t ue addu ce d at your L or d s hi ps ' b ar. I protest if I ev ert , t he most strenuous advocate of those laws—if I wer e d t • fro. e ermined that nothing would make me budge te e ? t heoa—if I were resolved before-hand—though ,ieirvould not be a very praiseworthy resolve—not a ne ' t "e . w ary deserving of judges whost business it is if I tie.ludge before-hand, but after a hearing ; but even t Prejudged tile thing, and had determined not a G r4 o .." it °P. I should deem that so far from being an stl:""t egainst going into the inquiry, the most po se argument to induce me to go into it. But sup 410e what the consequence of this refusal will be th:egst mankind, that there was evidence offered at ti . er b ar affecti ng th ose e i g h t p ro p os iti ons o f fact, ei% 37 one of th em a ff ect i ng t h e we ll-b e i ng o f corn :tier'es-(ilear)—propositions, the importance of which t tuti r i nan can d en y, an d no man can d ou bt—th e tend of which i s so l emn ly assser t e d an d ev en art eeed on oath at the bar, dolt all these propositions 're nt t° be given away to the wind, put down by the e ver e % el oquence of numbers, by the mere force of one V1°1.1141 ,7 Parliamentary majority, and that the Peopl e of England are to be told, Porliament has made A its Tind—go your ways—go beck to your workshops tai repair to Your maaufnetories—bie away to your foreign ‘, where in your commerce, you have gleaned all this in ferse at i • Wilt to on you have offered to tell U 3 01 your oaths—we testi n ,„ ' l6 of your evidence, we will hear none of your our in i .ll „Y" - -Ire want none of your facta—we have niad! up afraid to the foregone conclusion, and because we are shak e that y our ev id ence m i g h t perc h ance ten d to we a ,that determination we will not listen to it, because ac es not run that risk. My Lords, this refusal may be bet4P a nied by such suspicions and such cone - net - As as • Ise - °lake it a more pleasing task to contemplate the • ere Jett a , eets of acceding to it than to have the sub which.'" My Lords, I can conceive no earthly event the re would tend more to reconcile the people, if ever ae oo 4 ,as been a ft cling on the part of the people at vari your w ith the order to which your Lordships belong, than Pr ayer kindly, considerate, paternal listening to the wid e 4 , or thes e pet i t i oners, and show that your opening on, t l!'e doo r to t h e peop l e ' s prayers, s h ou ld not b e to s h ut die t 0.. " . 6 evidence of their distresses, and the mute my ee''Y Propose. With these matters, I humbly tender ?r, th lit thanks to your Lordships for having granted me ir,e uh e Part of the people of this country so patient and so onc e lfnt a hearing. I commit the case to your hands tlen e j' Or e, repeating that I tender all that important evi aeret of great material facts, on the oaths of re tii leis and experienced individuals, which I hear- The he Te o Pe your L or d s hi ps w ill net refuse to hear. th e Noble and Learned Lord concluded by moving that P e tition be re f erre d to a C omm i ttee o f t h e w h o le House. al, y , 6 Duke o f BUCKINGHAM wou ld not trespass a t sp ee q'agth upon their Lordships' time, after a very able h e eh of the Nobl e and Learned Lord, f or w h ose ta l ents eieaerri t tertained a very gre...t respect. It was perfectly om , 0 him th a t t h e whole gist of the liable and Learned th e S peech was nothing more nor less than a repeal of i s t Co rn-laws._ Th e N o bl e L ord ha d as k e d f or w i tnesses foe.:.h.°ard at the B ar of ,he House, but it w:is impossible • self-,‘,.. 41 (the Duk e of Buckingham) to disguise from him- Ai .,3l;u v e fact that the u l t i m ate'obje et of the Noble Lord was hi a 1 of those laws of which he honestly acknowledged not to ' 4 firm and strenuous advocate. It was impossible also th e . 0 Perceive th a t t h e ag i tat i ons now going on in all alon t Z litr Y. was for the s o le purpose of creating dissen atid.,„• Shen the in anu in c t urer an d the aerieulturist ; his .. " e n 'he heard from the Noble Lord opposite what 0 1 °Pinio n —l3 Were he could not but recollect the who 4 . 3 or Noble Lords and others in another place, Tl 3e nlY avowed their intention of repealing the •of aw s• lie would take the earliest opportunity fa rts .P e r , e ssing his diss,nt from those opinions, and his 0 4, 4yberance to those laws which lie considered . were ., • sol::lttst Protection to a large class of r Majesty s th e d y class which, when in distress and difficulty any l a "ealed to both Houses, had done so in vain, NA ; c ad still borne with perfect temper the distresses Oon e ver ses to which the had been subjected. He ever Y ak " the manufacturer 3 s, for whom he entertained 3 Pessibl tory inet _ -c respect, how were the English farmers to t e k e ' n oun.with foreigners if these protecting duties were would It was iinpossible they could do so, and he s e h ont aPpeal t o t h e Noble Earl opposite (Spencer ) , lie wou a i s _, 4 practi ca l f armer, an d h e was sat i s fi e d t h a t lawa agree with him, that if they repealed those n u, fa rwier too k away all protection from the English Could 4would be impossible to compete with those who ,With w their grain under such superior advantages. sir ro „ e eru to the consumers, it appeared to him that a loteeesrs,onerating price would not interfere with their ient tsivehdil.e the great manufacturing interests of the t " i utl y tr • fairly 3 would receiv e that protection to which they were . What alarmed him upon the present influentialques ja°4ewa! the difference of opinion which was said to exist (No:1 o qarrs, and he should have wished that a POrtioil of r . that sort, affecting the interests of a large e n c,uel.the community should not have been made an hers ehe ', L iOo by the C;:tinet, or one upon which its mem tinlevsfl(Ril bold divided opinions.—( Hear.) All parties Miais ters e di tlieulty and danger look to her Majesty's ds bathe ra u l s m t s ,2 a v y . m th:t t. u:ll)(;.°;_t:ll:3,a,inrsaqii°itfierstPtriou, tne,,tche apricultural classes of the country could T leek to One arlia ,Cal ths 1r friends in buzi, fro vial the exertions they would make in their own There was another point to which THE SUN., LON DON, TUESDAY,-EtENING EDITION,-FEBRUARY 19, 1839 assured the labourers, then and nets Unhappily suffering grievous privations—that tlseir object iti endeavouring to effect the proposed alteration in the Corn-laws, was to supply the working classes with cheaper bread, and to enable them to consume a greater quantity of agri cultural produce, than they could now (Hear, hear.) What however must they think, when they found of those very Anti-corn-law advocates asserting at a meeting lately held, as reported in a newspapar, " without a repeal of the Corn-laws we never shall be able to beat down wages sufficiently."—( Hear, hear.) It was clear that the manufacturers of this country found it every day more difficulty to compete with foreigners,—but much of that evil wits attributable to the manufacturers themselves, as he (Lord S.) would at another time show from official documents. From the end of the year 1834 to the mouth of August last—a period of three years and a half—the machinery employed in the cotton trade alone had been increased 53 per cent. Thus the means of production being disproportionately multiplied beyond the consumption, the manufacturers were not relatively in so good a situation as they were before—( Hear.) It was to be apprehended that if the prices of corn were reduced the wages of the operatives would bo lowered to a greater degree than the prices of articles; and as he had already intimated, the duties in foreign markets would be raised much higher than they were now, the inference was, that no party would derive any benefit from the change. Though not possessing that ability to follow a train of arguments which distinguished the Noble and Learned Lord, he should briefly expose some of his misstatements, especially those respecting the. prices of corn at various times. While he (Earl S.) was a member of the Central Agricultural Society, he re membered that the average prices of wheat from the end of 1835 to the beginning of 1836, was 365. a quarter. When the Noble Lord talked of the rents having doubled, lie ( Earl S.) would refer to the prices of corn during the last century. He would find that in 1730 the average price of wheat was ls. a quarter higher than in 1830. ( Hear, hear.) On reference to the official tables, they would see that wheat was comparatively higher during the reign of King William, of Charles the Second, and the latter part of the time of James the First.--( Hear, hear. ) It was most material to consider that the Noble and Learned Lord had overlooked w hat was of extreme and vital importance, and ho appeared to rest the whole of his argument on the relief the repeal of the Corn-laws would give to the labouring classes if they reduced the wages of the labouring classes and the price of corn in proportion. What could they do? They did a positive evil. If the labourer was a prudent and careful man, and had been accustomed weekly to lay by a small sum, now, under the most favourable circumstances, it would be impossible for him to contribute anything. The Noble and Learned Lord had nothing to rest his argument on, for if he reduced the price of corn,he would drive out employment altogether, particularly that of a very considerable number of agricul tural labourers. There was another subject on which he rested those eight fundamental points he spoke of. His Noble and Learned Friend had omitted altogether to speak of the effects this measure will produce on the state of Ireland. He may remain quiet and inoperative, except as far as may be relevant for his argument, but in respect of that measure, any hope of benefit for the manufacturers would be revolution in that country, and would lead even tually to a repeal of the union. Before he sat down, he would make one observation more—the just constitu tional authority of this House it was far from his wish to invalidate, and on all occasions he was anxious to assert, but he would not admit that the House of Commons as now constituted had any right—he did not mean of course a legal right—but it had no just and lawful authority to interfere with those laws. That House called itself the representative of the people—had it any lawful authority to reduce the wages of labour throughout the country. He could say it would be no benefit whatever in that ex parte proceeding recommended by the Noble and Learned Lord. It would be of no practical utility what ever to discuss the question at the bar of that House by hearing evidence, unless they were convinced it would lead to a satisfactory result, of which the Noble and Learned Lord himself did not give them any hope, he intending merely to engage them in an inquiry of which no man knew the objects, but which we were told was intended for the benefit of the people. Whenever we heap d any proposition where there was considerable discrepancy of opinion we should take our views generally. Such was the case with regard to the Corn-laws, and we ought to take a general view of the effects that law produced. The Duke of RICHMOND was only anxious to say a few words in reply to what the Noble and Learned Lord urged, on the necessity of hearing evidence at the bar of that House. If the question had been one which had never before been discussed, and which had never been inquired into, he would consent to hear evidence at the bar ; but by agreeing to hear evidence we were holding out to the country hopes, or telling them we were in doubt of the course to be pursued. He would be no party to such a proceeding—he would give it a direct - negative. His Noble Friend had spoken most eloquently on the subject, and had said some things which he (the Duke of Richmond) en tirely agreed with ; one of which was, ,that the interests of the manufacturer and agriculturists were identical ; and I agree with him when he tells us that the manufacturers have improved. They have done so, and you have given them the means. They have been in a state of peace and of consequent improvement for a considerable period. This is the reason they now manufacture more abroad. But the Noble and Learned Lord bad said nothing whatever of the Home Market. Were our manufacturers prepared to sacrifice the Home Market ? He would not dare to say so. He was prepared to reduce the price of labour; and for that purpose was preparing to reduce the price of corn.—( Hear.) He told them that it would be better for the poor to get bread ss. the quarter cheaper —( Hkar, hear)—but bread was not the only thing ; they must get their clothes cheaper and their rents cheaper and many other things cheaper ; he told them it would not much cheapen the price of bread. Why that was the ar gument by which signatures had been obtained to the nume rous petitions presented to the House, and those signatures would not have been obtained if the people had not been told that they would get bread cheaper by the repeal of the Corn-laws. His opinion was, if they repealed the Corn-laws a great portion of the land this country would be thrown out of cultivation. The agriculturists had to pay the malt-tax and every other tax imposed upon the land ; they must repeal more duties if they took off the pressure from the nu tu f m ro a rnt fa h c eh re n r a ; whic t h he w y oul m d u e s n t a b l t e ake them o ff a t t h h o o n s s e e to b u com pete dens with the foreign farmer. If there came a year of dearth it would then be a famine indeed, for the 'farmers would not be able to cultivate more than half their land, for he did not suppose those free traders would compel the farmer to sow his land with corn. He knew not where the money came from, for the construction of those numerous railroads throughout the country; nor the docks at Liver pool and other places, which were said now to be filled with vessels—if the manufacturing interests were at so low an ebb as some of those gentlemen would wish us to be • Hove. He knew how unpopular it was to meet a motion by a direct negative, but he knew he should not do his duty to thousands in endeavouring to prevent the land being thrown out of cultivation, if he did not now move a direct negative to the motion of the Noble and Learned Lord. must be produced on the ono side and the other, we sh be going into an inquiry which would be productive of no good, and nlich would occasion a great weste of time' w ithout affording aly real nat i s f a etiO n t o t h e country.l trust, thefefore, that We shall not go into inquiry. tritat it will not be thought that it is from arty ill feeling to the protection, or from any want of a wish to consider all that is necessary as affecting our fellew-subjects, that we refused to go into it _( Hear, hear)—but that it is from a feeling that the course recommended is mistakenly recommended, and that the objects they have in view mey be better attained in another manner. Upon those grounds, therefore, I shall udquestionably resist the motion for hearing evidence at the bar.—( Much cheering.) Upon the general question, it is not my intention to go into any argument on the present occasion. The Noble Lord has mentioned a great many facts, but the whole of his speech consisted not so much of the statement of the facts to be inquired into, as it did in inferences from those facts and opinions to be derived from them—opinions which we can here consider and determine upon without any further evidencer Un doubtedly the Noble Lord urged a great deal of this very clearly. I do not agree with many of the opinions he has professed on this occasion. At the same time, a great deal of what he said, no one can but concur in. The Noble Lord adverted, among other things to the tampering- with the currency, which he says has been the cause of many evils to this country, and which he says took place during the greet revolutionary war, in which this country was engaged. in the course of the last century. Unquestionably that tampering with, and depre ciating of, that currency was of great consequence. But when that is talked of we must recollect that no country furnishes any history of any example of going through such changes without experiencing something of that nature. The Noble Lord said the changes were made %kith too much haste and too lunch violence, I remem ber the predictions very well. I was in a hum. hie sphere then, but I thought it right then, and still think it right, to have acceded to that. My Lords, my experienc e at that time has made me a little shy as to such experiments, and I know not the effect of the measure which the Noble and Learned Lord pro poses—(Haar, hear)--and I shall be very cautious before I take another such leap in the dark, utterly ignorant of where I am going.—(Cneers.) My Lords, the Noble and Learned Lord, in m dting some very wise and prudent and judicious observations, in which I entirely concur, and, by-the-bye, which the Noble and Learned Lord en tirely adhered to in the speech which he has delivered, and which was not only very able and eloquent, but calm, tem perate, and considerate—( Hear, hear)—the observa tions to which I allude were on the impropriety of drawing comparisons between one set of persons, one class of the community and another, as tending to produce alienation and discontent—( Hear, hear, hear) — and the Noole and Learned Lord thought proper to allude to a Noble Friend of mine, who holds opinions different from those which he formerly entertained on this subject, and has expressed an opinion as to the superiority of the agriculturists of our country over the manufacturers. My Lords, I think, considering the variety of opinions which have been held on this question, and considering that many of those who have best debated the subject, have changed their judgment respecting it—it is no great disgrace to my Noble Friend that he should have altered his opinion upon it.—( Hear.) And as to his opinion re garding the superiority of the agriculturist population to the manufacturing—in respectability, in sobriety, in tran quillity—why, the Noble and Learned Lord must well know that such was the judgment of Adam Smith, an opinion, by-the-bye, which has sorely gravelled and puzzled his later commentator_—( Hear, hear, and laugh ter)—and my Noble Friend perhaps may be excused for committing the same error, if error it be—in such company.—(Cries of " Hear, bear.") My Lords, the Noble and Learned Lord drew a most splendid picture, with all that powerful eloquence which belongs to him—of the burst of prosperity which in 1774 was expe rienced in this country, and which has since continued up to the present time. But the Noble and Learned Lord forgot that the Corn-laws %sere established in 1772 (Lord Brougham—No no; 1804)—I say the principle of protection to the landowner was established in 1772, though undoubtedly it was extended in 1804.—( Hear.) I don't argue from that, as to the advantageousness of the Corn-laws; but I do argue this, that they have not after all been a positive bar to the growth and increase of the prosperity of the country.—( Hear.) My Lords, the ques tions we have to decide are, to what extent and at what prices corn can be grown in this and other countries ? And these points can only be ascertained by experiment, by trial.—(llear, hear ) Inquiry would leave us exactly where we arc, involving as it would do investigations into the facilities of communication and the means of transit in distant countries. The evidence as to which would necessarily bet most unsatisfactory.--( Hear, hear.) As to the growth of manufactures on the Conti nent, there can be no doubt aboutthat ;—by reason of the long peace,—increased exertions—and the industry, in genuity and skill which the Continental nations have al ways possessed in many manufactures, in a degree some times equal, if not superior to our own ; and whether this is owing to the Corn-laws is matter for argument, and reasoning on the facts already before us.--( Hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord himself has stated the facts correctly enough, the imports and exports of • our own country, as compared with foreign nations ; and he drew his inferences ; and no doubt the corn and timber 'awe are obstacles in our negotiations with foreign nations for reciprocity—( Hear, hear) ; but I believe that though they furnish a good argument, they form no motive.— ( Hear, bear, hear.) I very much doubt whether it a our Corn-laws that have raised up foreign manufactures on the Continent.—( Hear, hear.) I am certain that a repeal of the Corn-laws would not do away with them— (hear, bear)--particularly if we throw it before them in this way, with no stipulations.as to reciprocity, giving it merely as a sacrifice to the passions of our own manufac turing population.—(Hear, hear.) tnrcis„ I did not mean to have said so much upon the general' 'question, in tend ng to have confined tnyarlf to the point of hearing evi dance, which Ithink unnecevsary, prejudicial, and useless to the objects of the petitioners themselves.—( Hear, hear, hear.) My Lords, the Noble and Learned Lord on a former occasion, uttered some severe strictures and animadversions on what lie called "open questions." ine, in that House. He would read what the historian said on that suhiect, and their Lordships would see it was mode bf which it wart impossible their Lordships could adopt, more particularly on a subject of such impo,t ance, and in which the interests of the country were so much involved. It was stated that, "on the 20th of April, 1812, the House agreed, without a division, to hear evidence in support of the petitions. The inquiry on the order of the petitions was wholly conducted by two Members, and each night presented new operations and new defeats to the orders in Council, and new advantages to the opposition. By incidental dubatings on petitions presented, by discussions arising on evidence tendered, by other mighty matters broached occasionally in connection with the subject, the Government at first conceiving there was a clamour raised out of doors against their policy, and hoping this would of itself subside, endeavour to gain time and put off the hear ing of the evidence ; but they kept steadily to their pur pose, and instead of calling in their witnesses at the earliest possible hour, they at length prevailed so far as to have it understood that the hearing should proceed daily at half-past four o'clock, and to continue at least till ten, by which means they generally kept on till a much later hour, those who took a peculiar interest in the subject having earlier left the House." Such a course might be very proper in another place, and probably very proper in order to repeal the Orders in Council, but this was a solemn Act of Parliament. It might be considered regular in another place, but it could not be deemed a regular proceeding in that House, where there was no precedent for such a proceeding. lie could not agree with the Noble Viscount, that this pro ceeding was taken for the purpose of delay—on the con trary, he thought the intention was to accelerate the pro ceedings. At the same time he earnestly entreated their Lordships not to lose sight of the question. He hoped they would take into their serious consideration the whole of the grounds stated by the Noble and Learned Lord, in order that they might be enabled to decide upon it according to their conscientious opinion, and consistent with the pub be interests, and at the very earliest period. He had al ways considered the question as the most important one which could come under the notice of the House. The object of the existing Corn-laws, which were passed in 1804, as c ertainly to give protection to the agricultural interests of the country. The agricultural interest of this country had enjoyed that protection for'thirty-five years; that fact alone was a sufficient reason for proceeding with some caution in making any alteration in the laws.—( Cheers. ) It would be an interference with the greatest interest in the country—with an interest which affected every class of her Majesty's subjects. There would be one very bad effect from an alteration from the present shifting duties, as they were called, to a permanent one. A perma nent duty might involve the country in very great difficul culties, for it would ruin a great portion of an indus trious, and at the present time, a wealthy and happy class of men. If it was possible that the House could make such a mistake as to make such a change, it was impossi ble to say what revolution--what change they would make in property. If the Noble and Learned Lord would look back to what passed between 1814 and 1822, and between 1822 and 1828, when the present Bill was passed—he would find that even a very small importation of grain had at various times caused very extensive distress amongst the agricultural interest of this country, and that theie importations, sometimes occasioned by an unfortunate rise in the prices, and at other times occasioned by the in terference of the Government. caused such distress amongst the agricultural interest, that the Legislature was com pelled to adopt the principle of the measure, which was the foundation of the Act which existed at the present moment. He firmly believed that they could not change the law- they could not change the principle, as they would expose the agricultural interest of the country to very great deterioration, and not without making a great revolution in property.—( Cheers.) The law, as originally established, was for the protection of agriculture, and until it could do without that protection ; it must be afforded. The Noble and Learned Lord had taken great pains to prove that the present law had not ensured a uniformity of prices. He (the Duke of Wellington) did not know how a uniformity of prices could be ensured in any country, or in any commodity, the price of which must vary according to the produce. In this country the pro duce surne,iinis varied to the amount of double. There was no doubt that the agriculturist gaMed, then, with low prices, because his produce was greater. The fluctuation for a number of years had been very trifling. The average in 1828 was 645. 6d. ; 1829, 675. ; 1830, 665. 10d. ; 1831, 725. ; 1832, 61s. 2d. ; 1833, 555. 53. ; 1834, 495. 63., and 1835, 425. 3d. The average of those ten years was about the same as that stated be the Noble and Learned Lord as existing from 1772 to 1800. The average was 565. 4d. which was ilot a very high price. —( Hear, hear ) He claimed for the law that it had brought the prices to as steady a point as was possible. The Noble and Learned Lord said the effect of the Bill had been to destroy the trade of the country. He begged to inform their Lordships that in the 20 years from 1815 to 1835, there was imported un der the different laws, 8,428,589 quarters of wheat from foreign countries, making an average of 401,361 quarters annually. The quantity imported in some years was great, in .1829 it was no less than 1,259,000 quarters; 1830, 1,493,000, and in 1831, 1,034,000 quarters. He was therefore astonished that it should be stated that this measure had been destructive of trade. Another re sult that appeared from the paper he had before him was that between 1815 and 1835 no less than 6,585,242 quarters of wheat were imported fros - n Ireland. This, therefore, showed that the measure had not only encou• raged the trade in corn, but also the growth of that article and the trade in it with Ireland. Besides the quantity of wheat imported there was 3,934,695 hundred weight of fo reign flour, and 6,994,665 hundred weight of Irish produce also imported, and it was therefore impossible for any mea sure to have encouraged the trade in corn more than the existing laws had done. !laving said thus much he would now proceed to make a few observations upon the complaints made by the Noble and Learned Lord with respect to the misfortune that betel a merchant whom it appeared bad imported a large qeantity of wheat from the Mediterranean, but who was not enabled to sell it,had itin bond in the country, and the expense of keeping it there, together with the other charges upon it, bad exceeded the value of the corn itself. If lee understood the Noble and Learned Lord rightly, I would advise them not to adopt that doctrine - too hastily he had stet, d that the corn was at that time, including which coedemns all open questions because it condemns a insurance, freight, and other things, 425. great deal of the past, and may, if you adopt it, render a great Lord BR OUG HA M.—Forty-seven shillings. deal impracticable for the future. —( Laughter. ) All argu- The Duke of WELL I NGTO N— Well, he would men eall eloquence and all sound seems to be on one side; but say 4es. ; but this merchant expected to get 725. for it all reason, all practical sense, common utility—the general at least, because he bought it in at a time when the duty mode of things working—are entirely on the other. The was Is. ; that was a pretty good speculation if it had an- Noble Lord said much about the Government not making swered, but it did not succeed.—(Laughter.) The up its mind--the public has a right to demand of you that prices fell in the country before he brought in his corn, you should do it—or it is a matter to be expected, and it is and the duty therefore rose: if he had sold immediately a mere excuse for the purpose of keeping the Government he might have had a profit. together. Why the Noble Lord's experience might have Lord BROUG II AM.—The price fell before the wheat told him that the keeping the Government together was a arrived, while it was at sea ; when the vessel came into vet) , sorry, and not a very easy task. (Great laughter.) port the price was 425. Some years ago I should not have been surprised at my The Duke of WELLINGTON—Then the vessel Noble and Learned Friend making such an observation; must have ben a long while on its passage.—( Laughter. ) but considering that he himself had been a Minister, I am There could be no doubt that the individual intended to somewhat surprised at it.—( Renewed laughter.) And, make a very good thing of it ; but he was disappointed my Lords, with respect to open stueetions, do Noble Lords (Laughter.) He (the Duke of Wellington) thought the forget that took place in 1812,1820, and 1827, under the present subject ought to be taken into consideration upon Government of Lord Liverpool, who conducted this country general grounds, with a view to the benefit of all classes in through the great war in which we were engaged, and through the country, and not with a view to any particular interest. some of the greatest difficulties which ever beset this country ( Hear.) He thought, however, that their Lordships in the time of peace—do Noble Lords forget that that Go- should well consider the whole subject before they withdrew vernment did make the measure which was the most fro- that encouragement which was afforded to agriculture by quent in dispute, and which was of the most frequent the existing laws. Let their Lordships never forget that occurrence, on open question ? Ido think it is a little un- during the last five and thirty years, during which agricul wise to pronounce all open questions as discreditable-- lure had had this encouragement, not only had they brought always prejudicial—and always to be avoided. My Noble that great war to a conclusion, which the Noble Viscount had and Learned Friend said that was a state of thin g s which referred to, but they had found their way out of another mis he always contemplated with the utmost disgust. Now, fortune, the alteration of the currency.--( Hear.) Lct them I almost doubt that.—( Laughter.) I remember when recollect, too, that they had paid off, for he called paying I was engaged with the Noble and Learned Lord in dis the interest paying off, let them recollect that they had cussing certain questions that were considered open ques- paid off a hundred millions of the National Debt—( Hear, tions, aid I don't think he was so very much disgusted.— hear) --and they had also repealed an enormous amount (Laughter.) No doubt, we were always pleased with of taxation.—( Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he trusted those ei o were with us, and angry with those who were their Lordships would maturely consider the subject before against us. Ido say that, considering the difficulties on they decided upon one that was of such vast importance to this question—considering the difference of opinion upon it the nation at large. and the inaneer in which it affects the various interests of Lord .BR.OUG HAM rose to r e pl y . H e t h oug h t the community, it is one o f those which, in my opinion, it necessary to correct one or two very great mistakes may he as well left to the fair, impartial, and unbiassed . which had been fallen into by some of the Noble Lords decision of Parliament, as any other that ca n be conceived. that had addressed their Lordships.--[Here consider ._._( Hear, hear.) I have nothing further to say on the able confusion prevailed in cons equence o f N o bl e L or d s i general question, but I trust your Lor dshi p s will think it leaving the House.] is unnece.ssary to enter into the inquiry. — ( Hear, hear.) Lord BROUGI AM continued—This w a s no t th e p r o- The Duke of WELLINGTON commenced by saying per way to treat a subject of such vast importance as the that he concurred in the exhortation of the Noble and present.—( Hear, hear.) Learned Lord opposite in the commencement of this Lord W YNFORD made an observation which was in speech, that their Lordships would giVe their utmost atten- audible in the Gallery. tion to the arguments urged on this question, and he trusted Lord BR 0 UGH A M—My Learned and Noble Friend their Lordships would do everything in their power to come on the opposite side seems to have forgotten his old judi cial habits of hearing both sides and then the reply. Your to such derision as would bo most consistent, not with the which opposite to avoid interests of one class or the interests of another, but with ) but you must and shall hear it, whether you like it or not. Lordships seem as if you did not wish to hear the reply, the interests of the public in general.—(Hear, hear, hear. This is nothing to the House of Commons. The. Noble and Learned Lord in the arguments which he play, compared to the noise of' the House of Commons. This is child's had addressed to their Lordships Viscountn th:s subject certainly appeared to him as to the Nobl. —(Laughter.) He was glad to hear the Noble particularly that part of the subject related to the tech- Duke's statement as to the felicitous situation in which the mode of inquir Lordshipsy y this country was placed after a war of unprecedented which he had proposed to their for their adop. extent. The Noble Duke had talked about paying tion. The ma d e of inquiry proposed to their Lordships off a hundred millions of the debt. There could be no was one he believed entirely without precedent. He did doubt that the taking off the interest relieved the burthene Meal question before the House,namel not believe there was an instance of a Committ ee o f t h e of the people, but they could not take credit for paying off whole House havi n g been moved to to receive p et i t i ons, so large an amount. The N o bl e D u k e h a d a l so talked and to take them into consideration b y the exa m i nat i on of about the reduction of taxat i on. I t was true t h at a very witnesses at their Lordships' bar—there was n o s i ng l e i n- great amount of taxes h a d b een ta k en o ff , an d d ur i ng t h e stance of such a procee din g , and he was positively certain time that he was in power those with whom he was as this was a case of all others, in which_t_heir Lordship s oug h t sociated, had ta k en o ff some m illi ons i n t h e i ncome tax not to eroceed in that mode -(Hear, hear.) There alone. The Noble Viscount at the head of Hor Majesty's was, indeed a precedent for it in another House of Par- Government had stated that he (Lord Brougham) had a respect of the in liament, but he thought he wouldadopt e able to show their bad case because he was so dull in his statements. Lordships they ought not to Noble that precedent, and It would have been very extraordinary with him he entirely agreed with • .Duke on the cross (Lord Brougham) if he had been otherwise. The hh a e t d a o ri o n: p the inqu i r y that the ted nbeyodtehehier Noble Viscount said he did not argue the cause with that benches, in the grounds he had stated to thedirsuLcohrdpsohiinptss h n e gu N ir o y b o le u a g n h d t warmth with which he usually did any case that he took an interest in. Now he must tell that Noble Viscount that word had b t e o en st.t a o :recedent in another he was extremely mistaken if he thought there was any want of argument on his part from a disinclination to enter cittbLloieuefii. be yrer h ne dt e ehtia , bra i n : L. ci u trto l eor a ddi s. Lordship : tt t daeb dsaht thgilbee)3enoeb,siejf, consent :en) tuctuhomtli objects t ouyo l dpr i neterho whichev show inquiry,.i consented!bsuect upon the subject. If his argument was dull it was from the nature of the subject upon which he was arguing. It was an exceedingly dull subject, and one that was ex eofNionbqleularnyd learned Lord, who but Lor d h s e h i d p i s d . not N state o th o e i r i onee e tremely difficult, and required a great deal of state. proposed. was the prop upon this occasion. place in respect to an inquiry upon petitions on a great anent and facts, which were of themselves dull in public question, which petitions were taken into consider- their natnre. He saw that their Lordships ation be a Committee in the other House of Parliament. were not over.willing to hear him, and thus he had rather Their Lordships had beard that the result of those petitions an ungrateful task to perf,rm ; but that task, however un had been h o ld out to the pu bli c a s an inducement to urge the grateful, lie was determined to accomplish. If ho had aHdeolwitahs;nqoufitae certain u r take the lively views one Noble Lord had taken, not so humorous, not so droll, but as comfortable to himself, as had made the present motion, had no intention that a similar easy to himself, for nothing was easier in dealing with the mode of proceeding should be adopted . there, with a view subject than to pass it over on one side—and it was easy in to prod uce t h ose same en d s , more particularly as he (the proportion as it would be difficult, and it was just pleasant Duke of Wellington) had got a note of a recent history in proportion as it was difficult, and it was just as natural published of that transaction, which would show what was in proportion as we felt not very able to deal with it— the mod e o f p ro ceeding on that occasion, and what was (Loud laughter)—and these things altogether tended to the object of it. He believed it would be found that it was eet the Noble Lord out of the difficulty, instead that mo d t e h the object in view, of those out of doors, who had insisted of trying to get over it. Now, as to what the on having this mode of proceeding adopted on the present Noble Duke had addressed to himself as to the occasion, and the Noble Viscount would s ee he was wrong in Corn duty. His Noble Friend opposite, and the supposing that delay was the object of this mode of inquiry. Noble Viscount above all, had most egregiously misunder- The N 1 1 V", •nt would see it was to accelerate the • e • c.• 10.., LCOI. stood his (Lord Brougham's) statements, when they saw inquiry ee much as possible, and to render the result cer- he did not apply himself to the matter which be was 1 tain, by clamour rather than by a fair inquiry and reason- j bringing before the House, namely, whether evidence Viscount MELBOURNE—The Noble and Learned Lord had stated at the conclusion of his speech that it was his intention to submit a series of eight resolutions to the House, upon which a Noble Friend ,pf his hereafter in tended to bring forward a motion. This was a most con stitutional and a most Parliamentary mode of proceeding —it was exactly the mode of proceeding that the Noble and Learned Lord ought to adopt. My wonder is that the Noble and aid Learned Lord has not adopted this mode of proceeding in the first instance. I cannot help think. ing, although the Noble and Learned Lord has delivered a speech of great power and eloquence, that he has brought forward this subject more in compliance with the wishes of others than in accordance with the suggestions of his own mind. The Noble and Learned Lord has made a powerful appeal to your Lordships, at the same time I must say that, in the course of his speech, and more particularly at its commencement, he laboured a little.--( Hear, hear.) He did not speak with that spirit which I have frequently heard ihim address your Lorships, when he had his own good sense as his advocate and assistant. The Noble and Learned Lord laboured under the disadvantage of his own accuracy, and his own certainty, and his own knowledge of the subject being arrayed against him.—( Hear.) Because the more clear the facts he stated, the more certain the propositions he had laid down—the more obvious his reasonings, and the more decided his facts, the less ground is there for the inquiry he has proposed, and the less necessity has he proved for proceeding in the course which he has recommended.—( Hear, hear.) My Lord:, I entirely agree with the Noble and Learned Lord, that I am sure this House would not decide on a question of this great importance—a question of such material and vital interest to all classes in this country and this community— a question in which such deep and general interest is felt, and which so deeply and materially affects them, without full consideration, without a full hearing of all parties on the subject, and without a full consideration of all the argu ments which can be adduced in order to influence your Lordships' determination.—( Cheers.) But then we arc to hear them in the mariner which may be best for the subject and for the petitioners themselves. Let us not throw in the way of that great and important question useless embarrassment and impediments by this inquiry at your Lordships' Bar; for I declare, if it was wished in any manner to defer or postpone the measure—if I wished to cast delay upon and to avoid the question—if I wished to perplex and puzzle it—if I wished to endeavour to em barrass it in an inextricable msze of conflicting facts and opinions, I don't know a better way by which it could possibly be done than having this enquiry at the bar of your Lord ships House.—( Hear, hear.) What is that which the No. ble Lord has stated which we are to inquire into? What is there in the way of fact that is not either perfectly ob vious, or that is not in itself so difficult that it it impossible to be ascerrained ? Is it not evideslt that we would be hereby involved in a mass of nquiry without end or deter mination? The Noble Lord says we must engege in the inquiry, unless we are prepared to admit that all th a t has been stated is either obviously true, or false, or p er f ect ly immaterial. Is it because nothing has been stated which is immaterial—is it because nothing which has been stated is obviously false, but that much has been stated which is obviously true, and because a difference of opinion exists unon this subject, that we are to go upon this in quiry 2—( Hear, hear.) The question of these laws is not a new one—as the Noble Duke says, they have bean long sufficiently investigated and inquired into—it is not a new subject, but the whole question as to its operation, in fluence, and the conclusions to be drawn from its effects, are known to your Lordships, and can be as well decided upon by yourselves as by hearing all the evidence that the Noble and Learned Lord proposes to have presented at your Lordships' bar.—( Hear.) It is not absolutely necessary that we should go into this inquiry just at the moment we are ripe for the considera tion of this subject in any way the Noble and Learned Lord may thi n k pro p er to bring it forward. It is not an inquiry that is calculated to lead to a useful end. Look to the delay it would occasion, and the interminable nature of the disputes it would involve us in. It is nothing less than going into a Committee upon the state of the nation. It is calculated to exclude all consi detalion of po!itic. It is a Committee on the coin . coerce—on the agricultural state of the country —in short, , on the state of the nation. From the evidence that he ai=led to call their Lordship,' attention. He would remind them of what had taken place in that and the nth !louse of Parliament during the last Session. Their Lordships would recollect that the question of tithe corn position had agitated the country for some time previously. That question was settled by taking the average of the last seven years, and no sooner had that Act received the Sanc tion of Parliament, and become the law of the land than the averages, which were the basis of that hill, and which adjusted all differences between thz.. firmers, landlords, and tithcoNners, was at once destroyed, and the librie on which it was built overturned. The propo'itiou of the Noble Lord was therefore unfair to all the class of land owners in that country. He conjured them, as they valued their country's welfare, the prosperity of its inhabitants, and the stability of the Throne of theca realms, not to permit that interest which had always been foremost in manifesting its loyalty and affection fur the Throne, t, be deprived of that protection and defence which they only asked for, because they were fairly and legitimately entitled to it —( Hear, hear.) He would not trespass further on their attention, but he felt he would not be doling his duty to the country at large if he had not, on taking his seat in that Ho us, performed a duty to those whose confid -nee he had maintained for so many years—( Hear) —and if he had not at the earliest opportunity entered his most stre nuous protest against the propositoin of the Noble Lora opposite, arid asked their Lordships not to agree to a mo tion which had for its object the entire ov...rthrow of the Corn-laws of that country. tin disagreed totally with that proposition, and he adhered firmly to the present sys tem of Corn-laws—he wished for no alteration in them, and in that opinion he was supported and guided by a large majority of the commerce of that country.—( Cheers.) He asked forgiveness for trespassing so long on their Lord ships' attention, but he could not sit in that House with out deeply and honestly giving his entire dissent to the motion of the Noble and Learned Lord.—(Cheering.) Len STANHOPE would wish to call tic attention of the House to the course which had been pursued by the Noble and Learned Lord, not to tl•e arguments he had used, for those he had disclaimed, bat to the statements which he had made. In the whole course of his address he had not stated what was his ultimate object, supposing that evidence was produced at the Bar. He did not say whether he wished for a total or a partial repeal of the Corn-laws—whether he would be content with a moderate or a high fixed duty, or no duty at all. He trnsted there fore when the subject was brought forward on another oc casion in regard to its real merits, that he (Lord Stanhope) would be allowed to speak his opinions upon the general view of the question. At present he would confine him self solely to the serious series of statements which the Noble and Learned Lord had made. No man felt more strongly than himself that it was the duty of that House to open wide its doors to receive the petitions of the people —to afford them every opportunity and advantage of establishing by evidence—nay more, by the arguments of Counsel at the bar, any grievances of which they com plained ; but it was obvious that that could apply only to a case where in the first existence there existed a prima facia grievance, and secondly, where the Legislature had the power of redressing it. He would now proceed to notice those statements of the Noble Lord in which he stated that under the existing system of . Corn-laws the trade in corn had ceased to exist. He would ask whether the f :ct was not that, with a general deficiency of corn in that country and abroad, the importation for the last year had amounted to 1,800,000 quarters.— (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") The Noble Lord was misinformed on many other points. With respect to the price of corn at Dantzic, it might at present, after an unfavourable sea son, fetch the price mentioned by the Noble Lord ; but he would venture to assert that some years ago the best wheat could be procured at Dantzic for 28s. a quarter. He was also most grievously misinformed on other points, for be confined his observations to the port of Malta (although that was only a port of deposit, Melts producing no corn of its own) and the single port of Odessa. He was also misinformed with respect to the relative price of bread in that country and on the continent. He happened to have been at Calais last month, and he had inquired the price of the 41b. loaf, and was told it was Bd. ; he had also in quired in that part of Devon with which he was connected by property, and he found that the 41b. loaf there was also Bd. He need not observe, taking into calculation the comparative value of money in both countries, that the price on the continent was considerably higher. The Noble and Learned Lord had told them a very pathetic story of some unfortunate merchant who, no doubt, from purely patriotic motives, and the public good, and having no re gard to emolument, but ceutenining lucre and pelf, had provided a large supply of foreign corn— Lord BROUG HAM—I never said he did. Earl STANHOPE—The Noble Lord related it as a matter of suffering, and as if he had been acting solely for the public good. His Noble and Learned Friend had grossly misstated the case upon that point. He was not going to read an extract from an Act of Parliament, for nothing could be more tedious, and, he might add, unin telligible to peruse.—(A laugh.) He would find, how ever, that when the average was 725., the duty was Is., and that the duty increased 2s. for every is. the price de clined. So that that unfortunate gentleman, because he would I of consent to sell his corn at a moderate loss— Lord BROUGHAM (handing the Act of Parliament across the table)—Look at the Act. Earl STANHOPE (throwing it back again)-oh, I can't.—(Great laughter.) There was no variety of opinion or interest which had not some class of supporters—no idea so paradoxical that had not some zealous supporters. They had been told by the Noble and Learned Lord, to their great gratification and entertainment, that the Corn-laws threatened the land with famine. Now was it not much more probable, and much more to be apprehended, that those laws being re pealed, and we being obliged to rely for food upon sup plies from foreign countries, should be much more liable to the visitation of famine. If our communications with those countries were interrupted, either by edicts from their respective Governments, or by the occurrence of war, the inhabitants of these realms would un doubtedly be much more in danger from famine, if they had to depend upon those countries for provisions than if they could draw them in general, as now, from their own resources.—( Hear, hear.) Now was it not a fact that the soil of this country was well able to supply its people with food? Why even the Noble and Learned Lord him self admitted that from 1832 to last year there had been no importations whatever of corn into this country.—(Hear, hear.) He (Earl Staphope) would now proceed as ra pidly as he cold to disprove the points on which the Noble and Learned Lord had successively dwelt with so much emphasis as the ground work of the propositions whieli he expected their Lordships to adept. It was ne cessary to do this as carefully as possible, as there was no ether question in which were so deeply involved the in terests of those engaged in commerce, in manufactures, in agriculture---and most, though last of all, the labourers. —( He;:r, hear.) One of the strangest complaints of the Noble snd Learned Lord against the Corn-laws was, that thee caused a fluctuation of prices. Now he (Lord Stan hope) would admit this proposition. He actknowledge•.l that the Corn-laws had not answered their purpose in main taining remunerative prices to our agriculturists. But could it with justice be asserted that the fluctuations wet e to be ascribed to those enactments ? Were they not rather ascribable to the measures which from time to time bad been adopted respecting the currency—( Hear, hear.) —and which had had a great influence in producing the fluctuations they had witnessed in the various articles of trade and manufacture?—(llear, hear.) In 1822, he (Earl S.) showed that a fluctuation of not less than 30 per cent. had taken place in the prices of several articles of foreign manufacture, from the very same cause that had caused the fluctuations in the prices of corn—nan - iely, the alteration in the currency. ( Hear, heat.) And the argument he and others then advanced had never been conclusively replied to. The Noble and Learned Lord had enlarged upon the benefits that would arise from the reduction of a full tax of one shilling per individual, per year—that being taken as the annual consumption of each —assuming that to be the amount of burden imposed on each member of the community, by the Corn Laws. Now he ( E trl S , anhope) was anxi,ess to declare that no one regarded with more anxiety than he did, the paramount im portance of the duty which was incumbent upon them to do all they could to raise the condition of the labouring classes, to alleviate their distresses, and to promote their comforts. But he would ask the Noble and learned Lord to ask the opinion of any intelligent labourer (for to labourers a great portion of his argument ought to be ad dressed) whether he would consider himself relieved to the amount of one shilling a quarter, per annum, for each member of his family, if the Corn Laws were repealed, or whether lie would not consider it more conducive to his personal benefit, to pay somewhat ;store for wheat, and with that price have the satisfaction of procuring permanent employment. ( Hear, hear.) But there was a subject on which nothing that had fallen front the Noble and Learned Lord, in connection with this argument, should induce him now to advert to, he meant the New Poor-law Act. On that subject nothing should in duce him to enter at present, as he should reserve what he had to say regarding it until the subject was regularly be fore the House '1 he Noble and Learned Lord had said much on the difference of wages, and on the difficulty of competing with foreign manufacturers. If you were by iegt:lative enactments to lower the price of corn Is. per quarter, you could not thereby enable the English manu facturer to compete with the foreign one. • - • Lord BROUGHAM here begged leave to remind the Noble Lcrd that he had merely taken the Is. per quarter poli-tex as a hypothesis, for he had previously argued it on the basis of 7s. and ss. Lord STANHOPE would then take the hypothesis of Is. Now the object of the manufacturers in g for a repeal of the Corn laws was to undersell the foreign manufacturers in their own market, being enabled to re duce their prices by having lowered the scale of the wages of their artizans to the level of those on the Continent— ( Hear, hear.) But even if those reductions in the price of food, of articles, and of labour had taken place here, the English manufacturers could not succeed in under selling the foreign producers in their own market. Hear, hear.) Here he would retort on the Noble and Learned Lord. After all he (Lord B.) had said of the great increase of foreign manufactures, did he think that the Governments of the Continent would, in compliment to 113, and to gratify that spirit of inordinate gain which distinguished the manufacturers of this coun try, permit the importation of English manufactures, ut terly to crush and extinguish their own ? Did it occur to any rational human being that they would exhibit such a feeling of acquiescence ?—( Hear, hear.) The Noble and Lear, ed Lord had with his customary judiciousness and ingenuity abstained from detailing the modus operandi of thi.; desirable object. Supposing, for the sake of atgu ment, that which he (Earl S.) denied to be in the power of any Legislature to accomplish, were carried into eff.:ct. If it were possible for our own Legislature to give English ma nufacturers a charter on these terms to supplythe whole globe with their produce, would thetsubjects of the several States have the baseness to submit that their respective Govern ments should abstain from imposing heavy duties for their protection ?—( Hear, hear.) Being certain that the reduc - lion of wages here must be not in the proportion of is., or as. a quarter, but to an enormous extent, if the Corn laws were repealed. he (Earl Stanley) could not suirHentl' express Lis abhorrence indiatitio% at the conduct of those persons, who with consummate falsehood and hypocricy, had, at various public meetings, should be heard. He really thought he had an usque ad neuseam, said this was not his opinion, but that he offered to prove it by evidence. That was the whole burden of his song. flow could any person argue in favour of receiving evidence more strongly than by saying bore are important facts which bear on the question, which are material to the question, which go to decide the question —they are not impossible of proof—you admit the mate riality of them, you admit the truth but won't allow me to prove the truth.—Hear, hear.) That was the most com plete non sequitur he ever heard. But, said his Noble Friend, we all agree more or less as to the facts but not as to the conclusions. But the Noble Duke, and the Noble Viscount at another part of his speech, when he had forgotten the first part--(Laughter)—every ono of them denied the facts on which lie relied. There was a no less difference than this. He (Lord B.) said they could not import from Dantzic under 465. or 47a. Now that was very important. His Noble Friend opposite said, that he was ready to prove that not to be the case. He (Lord B.) was ready to prove that he was right. Now, said the Noble Viscount behind him ( Lord Mebourne), you are at issue upon a n i m p or t an t f ac t d ec i s i ve of the question. And what was the conclusion to which the Noble Viscount vaulted in his buoyent manner.--(Laugh ter). Why, that they should not be allowed to examine witnesses on one side or the other, but make the "aye" of one side pair off with the " no" of the other. ( Laughter). Now his ( Lord B.'s) statement eras an average of seven years at Dantzic, and his witnesses were ready to prove that on that average wheat could not be bought at Dantzic for less than 36i., nor be brought here for less than Ios. The Noble Duke said that it would not do to hear evidence at the bar; but that it was not custo mary in this House. He never heard it denied that this House was competent to call evidence before it to satisfy itself upon any subject. The Noble Duke said, and their Lordships were excessively merry, and he was sorry that he had interrupted their pleasantry, that it was neither more nor less than a gambling traffic, and that a person wanted to make 40 per cent. profit, whereas in a wholesome trade they would be satisfied with a moderate profit. Then the Noble Duke said it must have been ,a very long voyage, otherwise the transaction could not have happened; and then their Lordships were delighted. It was a Voyage of ten days, and as the average was taken every week, one week was enough to make it come down. If they doubted these facts, he was ready with evidences to prove them at the bar of the House. The Noble Viscount said that two lines had been taken, and that it was very difficult to steer between them. He wished to hear the whole matter fairly, but he feared it's lasting too long, and interrupting the business of the House. What business ? What House ? Where they in the House of Commons ? Why, they bad no business here, except the business of going to their dinners, for he never saw any business done in this House until the last week" of the Session.—( Laughter.) Then the Noble Viscount came to what he called the delicate part of the question. The Noble Viscount said that he was surprised that he ( Lord Broughani) bad lost all recollection of the use of open questions, and the difficulty of keeping together a Government, and upon that he was very merry, and their Lordships joined him in his pleasantry. He (Lord B.) did not remember any parti cular difficulties to which the Noble Viscount had alluded, and which had made him so merry. The Noble Viscount said that he (Lord B.) knew what difficulties there were. Now he (Lord B.) professed that he did not, that he had not the remotest guess—he could not fancy or divine what it was; but then he knew that his Noble Friend on the Bench opposite was most correct in stating, upon a late occasion, there was no open question made of the Corn laws, for he never heard it said, until it was re peated elsewhere, that the Corn-laws had been made an open question. He felt it disagreeable not to take the part which he wished to take, and complained to one or two of his colleagues, for his opinions bad been very strong on the subject. Not one word did he say, precisely because he thought it was not an open question. Ile never knew to this hour that it was open. He could not tax his memory with any such thing as an open question. He denied that there was any. It was indeed possible—indeed they had seen the practice —that one Minister might be at one side of an open ques tion, and ano'her at the other, and yet that both should keep together.--( Hear ) The Noble Viscount had said a good deal about the difficulty of keeping Governments together. Now, since he (Lord Brougham) had ceased to be connected with Governments, he had seen much more of its difficulty.—( Laughter.) There were various acts and schemes for keeping a Government together. One way was to turn out one Member to keep the rest in ; he believed that had recently been practised in a certain Cabinet, which he should not name.—(Laughter and " Hear.") Another plan was, for all the Members to cling together like the bundle of rods in the fable, that the weakness of one might be helped by the strength of the others. All these systems he had learned since he had ceased to be connected with a Government, and the result of his observation had induced him rather to envy the twig that had left the bundle than any one of those that yet were linked in connexion. He admitted that much had been done by the Government upon the reservation of open questions. He agreed with the Noble Viscount that there was a great excuse in respect of the Catholic Question. for here the great object was to carry the war to a successful termination. Still, if this question had been brought to a crisis in 1814 or 1816, and had been settled one way or another, he thought it would have been infinitely better for the question itself and for the people of England, and for the country in general. In speaking on one point the Noble Lord looked exceed ingly sly—indeed he ( Lord Brougham) had never seen him look so sly—(Laughter)—he had looked unutterable things; but his words, after all, were as but a dull tune when the sweetness of his countenance was regarded. He must repeat, that the conduct of the Government of the day, in leaving the Catholic question an open one, was most disgraceful, although he ( Lord Brougham) was never. theless most grateful for the support he had received from one part of the Government, as it was better to have half with him than the whole against him. Still be then se verely censured the practice of one member of a Ministry voting black what a colleague voted white—of one rising up in his place to contradict the arguments which another had advanced. It would have been much more honest—more manly and more becoming for them to have acted all upon one side.—(hear, hear.) He ( Lerdßrougham) thought after this statement it would be admitted that all the pleasantry which his Noble Friend had indulged in at his expense, ought to have been paid for out of some other person's pocket.—( Laughter.) Nothing could be more delusive than the statement of the Noble Viscount that he (Lord Brougham) had argued that the repeal of the Corn-laws would only have the effect of re ducing the poor man's bread tax to the amount of Is. per quarter per year for each member of a family. Now he had said that it would go much farther, but he assumed the re duction at only Is. knowing that the fears of the farmer and the hopes of the manufacturer as to the effects of a re peel were exaggerated. He bad even referred to a reduc tion of 7s.—but even a reduction of only is. would be a great deal, as this was a tax paid by every one who ate bread. As for the working classes, his Noble Friend had spoken in an honest and sincere manner ; and his Noble Friend opposite had done himself honour in stating that the interests of that body should be the princi pal object in discussing this question. He thought it was an exaggeration to state that wages would be reduced to so great an event by the repeal of the Corn laws, for wages were not regulated by provisions, but the relation between the demand for labour anal the supply. No doubt pro visions had their effect upon the value of labour, but they operated in a roundabout manner for an abundance of them increased population, and thus diminished the price of la bour. But even if wages should be reduced the labourer would find abundant compensation in having commodities so cheap, even if an increase of the population were to follow. It was a great delusion to' say that the workmen were not i n t er ested in as much, and in the longrun perhaps m ore in the repeal of the Corn-laws than the masters. Lords (concluded the Noble and Learned Lord) these are my reasons, these are my explanations. If you refuse d to hear evidence, admitting the facts propose d to be pro h y . , I have nothing to do but to move my.resolu tions, w eh must then of course be assented to. But if my motion is this night rejected on the pretexts, I cannot call them reasons, which have been urged , I m ust consider with my Noble Friends who think with me, the course to be hereafter adopted. The Noble Duke (Wel lington) has discussed the subject . with g ea . t calm ness and gravity, and the Noble Viscount (Mefilbourne) has expressed his sentiments with candour and rmne.ssii I have also been complimented on the fairness with which I have brought forward the question. It would have been strange were it otherwise ; for I have no interest ay ever—no feeling but the desire to do my duty. A must say that he will utter a gross falsehood who . shall declare that your Lordships considered the subject with anything like levity, or trifling. or indifference; or that you have not given it a patient hearing. I wish your Lordships' opinions had been other wise. But I have said all I can in favour of my proposi tion, I have heard no good reason against it ; and whether I divide the House must depend upon your Lotdshipe.— (Cries of question.) The question was then put, and the " non-contents" declared to have it. Their Lordships instantly separated. BUCKS ELECTION. AYLESBURY, FEB. 18. —The nomination of a candidate to represent this county in the place of the Marquis of Chandos, who was called to the House of Lords upon the death of the late Duke of Buckingham, took place this day at the Town Hall. The High Sheriff, Rice Richard Clayton, Esq : , pro ceeded to the Town Hall at 10 o'clock, accompanied by the candidate, Mr. Du Pre, and his friends. After the usual formalities had been gone through, Mr. Dupre was elected without opposition. THE REV. MR. LYONS.—We have the grati fication of announcing that the statement in the Limerick Chronicle, of the death of Mr. Lyons, noticed in our last, is a fabrication -- one of the most disgraceful fabrications that ever appeared, even in that Journal. The Rev. Gentleman is now in town, as will be seen by the list of the Levee yesterday. We shall have something to say on the object of this falsehood in our next. —Dublin Evening Post. will EARL DURHAM'S WINE.—Tbe Country learn, with all the pleasure which so amusing an announcement can. not fail to convey, that the Honourable and Gallant Member for Lincoln, Colonel Sibthorpe, has charged himself with bringing before the House of Commons a motion for the return of the cork screw expenses of the Earl of Durham's mission to Canada. CORN-LAWS.—In reference to the recent tri umphs of the Chartists over Corn-law repeal, it may be truly said, " A few more such victories and they are undone." THE MARQUIS OF WESTMINSTER.—We are informed, on good authority; that the Marquis of Westminster has become so thoroughly convinced of the injustice and impolicy of the present Corn.laws, as to be an advocate for their total re. peal. We wish we could announce more instances of conversion in the order in which his Lordship belongs.—Manchester Guardian. MELANCHOLY ACCIDENT.—About 10 o'clock on Saturday night, the 9th inst., the Swansea ferry.boat, in taking over a load of passengers, while the flood ran high, the boat either sunk or upset, so that every soul perished excepting one man, who miraculously escaped ; and it is not yet known how many perished ; six bodies only have been found, each of whom left behind a large family. On Monday and Tuesday last, an inquest was held before Charles Collins, Esq., Coroner, and several of the most distinguished inhabitants. Verdict—" Accidentally drowned." ANTI-CORN LAW DELEGATES. The DelegaOs met the usua t Chairhis day, at Brown's Hotel. J. B. Stem, Esq. 9f Among the Members parliament present, we ob served Mr. G. W. Wood, itir. Hastie, Mr., Dennistoun, M r. Thorneley, Sir B. Mr. Baines, Mr. Henry M arsland, p` 11 &Ir. G. A. Hall, and Mr. Hindle'. Colonel The'v Young, the Mayor of Birmingham, and the Honour A. Murray were also present. The CHAIRMAN reported that be bad received a! letter from Bradford, stating that a petition in favour of the re. peal of the Corn-laws would shortly be sent up from that , place, that a meeting had been held on the subject, at I the Ch ar tists attended, and carried en amendment, ! IC stating that it was useless to apply to the House of Com mons as at present constituted; he also reported that seven petitions had been received from the neighbourhood of Bir minghatrethat a petition had been received from Trowbridge which had received 1,400 signatures. Also a petition from Burnley, in Lancashire, which had been got up in a veu short time ; had a delay of a few days been afforded, the pee titioe would have received upwards of 20,000 signatures. t A eetition had also been received from Manchester, which had received 39,679 signatures; from sundry places iu the neighbourhood of Manchester, which had received up wards of 44,000 signatures; from the different trades of Manchester, which had received 17,366 signatures ; and another from Salford and its neighbourhood. The total number of petitions received was 47, bearing 77,068 sig natures. A petition from the borough of Marylebone seas now lying on the table which had received 16,000 signa tures. The Chairman further reported that he had re ceived a letter from Sheffield, stating that the Master Cut ler and Mr. Vickers had been appointed Delegates, and would arrive on Tuesday. Mr. WILSON stated that two petitions from Kendal had been sent to Mr. G. W. Wood for presentation. Me. BARKER said that the petition from Preston had re ceived 9,720 signatures, which, considering the population of the place, shows how strong and unanimous the feeling is on the subject. The CHAIRMAN stated that the petitions from Manches ter and Salford bad received upwards of 50,000 names, a greater number than had ever been attached to any peti tion previously sent up from those places. Mi. ASHWORTH stated that a meeting had been held at Bolton on the subject ; that the statements of the different speakers had been attentively listened to ; but that on a division, 9 to 1 had held up their heads in favour of an amendment, stating that they did not differ in opinion from the proposers of the original motion with re gard to the injurioue operation of the Corn-laws, but they felt that under the present constitution of the House of Commons, justice could not be obtained. Will the House refuse to listen to our requests in the face of such facts as these? If the Legislature will not grant our petitions in a proper spirit, they will have much greater demands made upon them before long. Mr. Weta reported that various answers had been re ceived by the Evidence Committee to the manufacturing and agricultural questions; that the Committee were busied in arranging their answers, to be prepared with evi dence in case the prayer of the petition to be heard at the Bar of the House should be granted. He also read an ex tract from an address from the unenfranehised inhabitants of Cupar, stating their approval of the proceedings of the Delegates, and that they considered the time was now come when a repeal of those laws which pressed so hey; oily on all classes, the Corn-laws .might be obtained. It vp,,es satisfactory to see that a portion of the unenfranchisce class was still willing to go along with them. Mr. Weir then proceeded to read a very voluminous essay on the present state of agriculture in England and France, the object of which was to slim in the first place that the Corn- laws in England were not only unnecessary, but positively injurious, inasmuch as they prevented the culei vation of the poorer soils ; and in the second plate that the French agriculturist is subject to not less taxation than the English agriculturist. The land-tax in France is equal to 20 per cent., and the assessment lasts for twenty year:. , the rates on land are about 10 per cent. so that the burdens upon land may be stated at about equal to 30 per cent. Independently of this, every article of consumption paid a duty on being brought into any town, which was cl:enomi need .an octroi. The indirect taxation on almost ail articles was as high as it was in England, while wheat ease only half the price it was in .England. The landlorr: generally received half the gross produce of the lands in ,f the shape of rent, and out of this he paid all out-goings. The rural population of France were in the happiest state. e The CHAIRMAN reported the arrival of Mr. Wynn as delegate from Wolverhampton, with a petition. Also the arrival of the Hon. Mr Murray, from Edinburgh, as dele gate, Mr. Cobden as delegate from Manchester, and Mr. Coppock as deligate from Stockport. THE CHAIRMAN also reported that he had received a letter from Hoy, stat. ing that a vote of thanks had been passed there to the delegates in London ; and that a petition to each of the Houses of Parliament bad been sent up—the one to the Lords to be presented by Earl Minto, and the one to the Commons by the Hon. J. Elliott. The prayer of the petitions was to be permitted to give evidence at the Bar, proving the injurious operation of the Corn-laws, mad. praying for the total abolition of all these laws, nut nece , sary for the revenue of the State. Three delig a t es from - Greenwich brought up a petition from that place, to which 5,150 signatures were attached. Mr. COBDEN stated that he expected the Manclrester petitions would arrive to-day. Mr. EWART stated that a petition would arrive in favour of the Abolition of the Corn-laws from Newcastle-upon- Tyne. The Agricultural Address had been di awn up by the Committee appointed for that purpose; but as it was thought one or two additions might be made with nil vantage, the publication of it was, for the present, p os t_ poned. , Mr. CLOSE announced to the Committee that the petition of the Anti-Corn-law Association of Notting ham was receiving the signatures of the inhabitants' of the eastern division of the county, and the signature a Lord Radcliffe, a very extensive landholder in than district, would be the first signature to that petition. Mr. THORPE said a petition had been sent from lialirax signed by 4,673 persons, praying for a total end immedi ate repeal of the Corn-laws, and that evidence might be given at the bar of the House. Mr. Iltistnzv, M. P., had called in consequence of a re mark made in the Morning Chronicle of Saturday, with re ference to a motion of which he had given notice for the a"P - pointment ()fa Committee to search the Jo u r na l s f or prece. dents of hearing Counsel and evidence at the bar having been heard. The remark in the Chronicle was, that this was , n attempt to forestal Mr. Villiers's motion of Tueslay, li e should be very sorry if an idea were to go abroad, that there was any disunion among the advocates of their cause. had thought he should be only la3irg the foundation for Mr. Villiers to act successfully.—( Hear, hear.) He wished to take the sense of the Committee m the sub. jeer. If the Committee were of opinion that it would be better to let the debate take its regular cow se, he would immediately go to the House and withdraw hi, notice of motion. Mr. JosErtl PARKES believed that all parties were fully informed on the subject. There were no precedents against what they asked, and it was not neces'sary to find pree,dents in its favour. Perhcps it would be as well if the Hon. Member were to abandon his notice. Mr. liisnr,sv would do anything to meet the wishes o f the meeting, but was far from thinking that if precedents were found , they would not have a greater i fluenee on Members. He had only been influenced in the cours e h e had taken by a desire to promote the object they all had in v iew.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Mr. BA INES said the original motion of Mr. Hindley in the House of Commons was to have precedents read, a list of which he held in his hand, but was told by the Speaker that it would be more regular to have a Committee ap pointed to inquire into them. They all knew Mr. Hind ley's object in what be had done could not be to imped e , but to accelerate their cause.—( Cheers.) it app eare d to , him (Mr. B.) that it would be too late now for the Com. mittee to do them any good, and therefore, un d er all tl . c circumstances, it might be desirable that the motion should be withdrawn. Mr. J. PARKES said there were gentlemen in the Home who would he fully prepared to discuss the question precedent, if that question should arise. If M r. Hind ley's Committee had been appointed and had made a report of the precedents, that report could only be quoted in the same way as all the journals of the House could be quoted by Members. Mr. EWART said Mr. Hindley's motion might be made, and the Committee appointed to-night. Every one knew t tut Mr. Hindley would not have taken this course unless he had communicated with Mr. Villiers.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. lIINDLEY said ho did not mention the circumstance to that gentleman. Mr. Villiers had stated there would be some objection in point of form to hearing Counsel, and it was in consequence of that, his (Mr. Hindley's) at tention bad been called to the subject.—( Hear, hear. ) After a short conversation it was agreed that Mr. Hind ley should be permitted to withdraw his motion, and the Committee adjourned. _-- SKELETONS.--Last week, the workmen em- I ployed on the railway in Falkirk Moor, came upon some htin - an , bones about two feet beneath the surface. Two skulls were dug out, and the perfect skeleton belonging to one of them. At!first, th e rumour was that the latter must be the remains of a shopkeeper, who disappeared at the time the Union Canal was forming, and wh ose house was much frequen ted b y Irish labourers. This dark tale wi t h all its minutim is still, h owever, shrouded in mys•ter y. One of the skulls is of large dimensions. —Scotsman. on workmanthepremies7 a f I employed rrnployed Perkins, at in ungOkinSdoa,t,unradtahyatclhaedsteLs, a Leek Wootton, he was astonished at discovering, i n the thatch, a bird's .nest with two young ones in it. We understand that the bird is of the kind which is generally called, among the villagers, th e " Fire lied Tail." The fact, we believe, is remarkable at this pe riod of the year.--IT'arwick Advertiser. FATAL COLLIERY ACCIDENT.—A melancholy accident has occurred in the Dinas Colliery, near Newbridgo. A stone of great weight, at least 50 tons, fell on two men and a lad, and instantly terminated their lives. The roof is one of the very best in the whole coal district : tile stall was only about six y ar d s wide, being newly turned; but a joint occurring just below thepl ace where the coal was removed, occasioned the tragical event,: W hi ch no human care could have averted.—Cambrian - DEATH FROM FIGHTING. —On Wednesday an inquest was held on the body of Rich ard Roberts, who died fr eiit the effects of lighting in a public - h ouse in Chadwick.stre ct, Vaux. hall.road. The Jury found a ve rdict of Manslaughter, a nd Caul; kill have to take his trial a t the ensuing assizes. T VCrpOol CAronicle. The Fisheries on the Tweed commen ced last in violence Friday with very auspicious success, the trouts taken have beea Katy numerous, and four of the waters below the bridge have had ped hurs.. their " calling," namely, their first salmon.—Bertaick Advertiser. THE WEATHER IN DUBLIN. —Dublin was , but again visited on Wednesday night by a storm almost equal i e i v t ening, in. to that of the memorable hurricane of the 7th ult. The gale (s. addition W. commenced about eleven o'clock, and continued till six on T •by day morning. The roofs of several houses have been &tri) we have not heard of any serious accident. High winds railed to an extraordinary degree since Wednesday have p ro. es easing at times to the fierceness of a hurricane. feared that we shall have much damage to record in " t° be to the fearful amount consequent on the hurricane which vhi ted us on the 6th of January. DEATH FROM DRINKING.-011 Mond a y an inquest was held before Mr. Curry, on the body of Jane Bar ns, , od tw.---tve forty-two, who died on Sunday from excessive drinki r • ' Chronicle. .rpooi ~.,