The Sun. — London, England, 1844-05-21 00:00:00

GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY COMPANY. A special general Meeting of this Company was held yesterday, at the Paddington Station, the Chairman of the Board of Directors in the chair. The CHAIRMAN said that, as the meeting was small, he believed the business would be small also. The Directors had called the Proprietors together for the purpose of asking them to c, nfirin the sanction which they had already on two occasions given to the Bill for enabling this Company to unite with, and subscribe 150,0001. to, the Sipth Devon Railway Company. The Bill had been re.ad tt second time, having unanimously passed through the Committee, and would shortly be read a third time, notwithstanding the great opposition which had been offered to it. But, according to:a Standing Order of the Home of Lords, before the Bill could be read in that House, it was necessary that the draft should have been approved of and accepted by three• fifths of the Pro prietors present at a general meeting specially convened for the purpose of taking that subject into consideration. To comply with that Standing Order the present meeting had been called. The Secretary would then read the report of the Directors. The SECRETARY read the report, which stated, almost as concisely, the matter contained in the opening expla nation of the Chairman. The report further stated that on the 10th instant the Royal Assent was given to the Bill for enabling the Company to amalgate with the Oxford and Cheltenham Railway Companies, whereby they would all be under one management, and the lines would be completed at less cost. On the motion of Mr. Wrsnew, seconded by another Proprietor, the report was received. The SECRETARY then read the clauses in the South Devon Railway Bill which applied to this Company ; aue/, after a brief conversation, th!t. SNITHERS moved a resolution, to the effect that oprietors present approve of those clauses. The resolution was seconded, and adopted uanimously. A Paornrwron begged to suggest that some means should be adopted by the Directors to give the Proprie tors more early intelligence of the approaching special meeting. He thought the Secretary should be instructed to write to the Proprietors, instead of leaving the matter , to the chance of their seeing the advertisements. For his part, he had not seen the advertisement until late on Saturday evening. The CHAIRMAN said that the advertisements were in sorted in strict accordance with the Act of Parliament. If they were to write to every Proprietor the Secretary would have to write 2,500 letters.—(Hear, hear.) Still he thought the suggestion of the Hon. Proprietor was of importance, and the Directors would give it due consi deration. Thanks were then voted to the Chairman, and the meeting separated. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. IRON THE EVENING PAPERS OF YESTERDAY. GLOBE.—Church-rates continue to supply matter for expensive, and we will add, disgraceful litigation. Several cases, which have recently been published in the daily journals, are calculated to diminish the influence which the national Establishment ought to exercise, with salu tary effect, upon public opinion, and the confidence which ought to be felt in the impartiality of the authorities who administer the law. We have invariably employed our efforts to induce the members of the Established Church and the dissidents from her creeds and worship, to unite in an application to the Legislature for an altera tion in the law, which is unhappily so fruitful in oc casions of expensive and injurious strife. We have less hope than ever of effecting amicable arrangements between the belligerents. But the dispute—which appears interminable, if its termination is allowed to rest upon a compromise between the advocates for and opponent of the existing system—produces a state of things with which the Legislature ought to interfere for the purpose of applying a remedy. A law which would place the repara tion of the structures upon the taxation of the country, and compel the members of the Established Church to provide what is requisite for the performance of public :worship in the churches, according to the rites and ceremonies of her liturgy, would remove this constantly arising cause of parochial strife. In many parishes the expense incurred by litigation has amounted to more than the entire amount of thetrate which cc ,: „ . casioned the altercation and the subsequent legal pro ,: ceedings in the Courts. This was the case in the still unterminated Braintree church-rate dispute. There the costs—which were eventuallycast upon the parish, or rather upon the churchwardens, owing to the rate being pronounced invalid—would have built a new church from the foundation. Two cases illustrative of the evil of church-rate;, as now provided for, have taken place within the last few days. The one was decided in the Court of Queen's Bench, on appeal from Sir H. Jenner Fust, the judge before whom the proceedings were brought, and the case decided in the Arches Court. The parties, " Francis and others," inhabitants of St. .-George Colegate, in the city of Norwich, wore cited by Archdeacon Bathurst, to appear in that Court for refusing to join in making a church-rate. Archdeacon Bathurst, acting in concurrence with other Archdeacons in that diocese, actually instituted proceedings against these parties, and brought them into the " Court Christian," to answer " for having contumaciously obstructed, or at least refused to make, or join, or concur in the making, of a sufficient .rate for the necessary repair of the church of the parish of St. George, Cologate, in the city of Norwich, they being parishioners of that parish, and liable, as such, to a rate for the repair of the church." Mr. Francis appeared to the citation ; and pleaded, by way of protest, that he had not been guilty of any ecclesiastical offence in the matters alleged against him. Sir Herbert Jenner Fust, after argument, decided that an ecclesiastical offence had been committed by Mr. Francis, in "refusing to make, or join, or concur in making, a church-rate." A writ of prohibition was obtained in the Court of Queen's Bench; and Lord Denman delivered a judgment, remarkable for clearness, in which the judgment of Sir 11. Jenner Fust was reversed, and all proceedings in the suit stayed. The power of vestry meetings to refuse church rates was fully recognised. The expense of those pro ceedings must have been very considerable. This, how ever, is the least part of the mischief produced by such contests. Their influence upon the public mind with reference to religion generally, and to the Established Church in particular, is extensively injurious, and ought to be stayed. Another case of the same character and . tendency was disposed of by the Judicial Committee of Privy Council, on appeal from a decision of the same Judge, on Thursday last. A church-rate had been made in a vestry meeting of the parish of Hornchurch, in Essex.' Against the validity of this rate, Pigott, an in habitant of the chapelry of Romford, alleged to be situate within the parish of llornchurch, appealed, on various grounds. The Court of Arches decided against the party who impugned the validity of the rate. Pigott, who is a very poor man, had conducted his case in person. On the decision of the Court below being pronounced against him, he appealed to the Judicial Committee, where he obtained the able assistance of Mr. Roebuck and Mr. Nichol.. The deci eo glen- of the Judge of the Ecclesiastical Court was re . .versed, and the whole. proceedings quashed. The juilg . - anent was given ears only one ground. The Court, by Lord Broughams s aVho-presided, stated ,, that as the rate was manifestly.bad.vn this. ground, it was unnecessary to CO into the . others. Several hundred pounds have been spent in this litigation ; and materials for future litigation are suggested, of which par .ties will avail themselves in future. If those who cline to the existing system refuse to be influenced by a love of peace, let them at least listen to the voice of pruden ce . Th e requ i rements of the law to 'give validity to a Church-rate are so numerous, and the probability that one or more errors will be detected, in any rate which may be disputed, so great, that almost every appeal brought against a rate is succeesfuly prose cuted. If the law expenses incurred in pre-ecuting and resisting appeals, and in enforcir 6 s payment of Church rates, were ascertained, it would go far to produce a desire for a final settlement of the question in those now most attached to the existing law e and most strenuous in maintaining it. ' .e. -e • STANDARD.—There is a homely English proverb, full of good sense, like most of our old English adages, which we think may be usefully - remembered at this particular moment. The proverb is this, that " one ought not .to cut his nose to vex his face." The, principle conveyed in this simple, suggestion, is of great value in politics ; fur in political transactions it is that men will be most frequently offended by the friends in whom they repose most confidence. It is not easy to find a single ques tion upon which even all men pursuing the same cod will think alike, but to find a- succession of Such questions from year to year, is an utter impos sibility. Now, as in the conduct of public affairs the actors must ever constitute only a very small portion of the party to which they belong, it is very plain that these actors must often give offence to many of those engaged with them in the . same common cause ; but to resent this offence, not merely. by war. upon the persons who give it, but upon the principles of the party, is surely a plain case of "cutting: the nose to, vex the face." At present some honest men of the Conservative party, and a great many professing Con- , servative a who aro not honest, are labouring to excite public i n di gnat i on against her Majesty's Ministers.' Now, of the hon est C onservatives we would ask what must ' be the • end of their success sup osino that they should succeed in running down' p ßobe'rt Peel's Cabinet ? The question is a serious one, for they may sue treed, of they perseveßrieusienn, the course i th k at is,c they are pursuing. Lord J. , have already stripped off their Whig liveries, w t: ret t !' r dy to take the reins as soon as they shall be wrested .om t Sir R. Peel's hands, with 'a resolution, however, to on again as soon as they are settled upon P t t h i the them box L ot Conservatives only remember the fadlity with . which the change was made in 1830 by the effect of Tory apathy or Tory aid, and the return that the Whigs trade to them, and then think twice befor e th ey again "cut their noses to vex t h e ir faces, ' haiingnow, far less provocation than they had fourteen years,ago, Do they want another ten years of Whig rule ? As Conserva tives, they must have some care for the institutions of the country. Do they wish to place these institutions once more at the mercy of Wing rulers, because it is surmised that the present Ministers, though greatly miti gating it, have not violently reversed the whole of the Whig policy (this is the complaint) will Conservativese consent to return to the arms of the 'Whigs? W e speak Here of the efforts made by honest men to run down her Majesty's Ministers, and we wish broadly to mark the distinction between running down a Cabinet and voting against it, or advising others to vote against it. The first must, if successful, be always fatal to the party to which the Cabinet belongs. The other may, in many -cases, augment the personal influence of Ministers, while itluts them Out of office for a moment, and it may at the same time greatly exalt the character of the Perti to which the retiring Ministers belong. It is baogriere:ttiinimisstaiokneott hatdivision politics is weakness. An opinion, not fandamental, jeer-such more frequently as acce 9l s • 011 of strength, b e cause character is strength, in public opinion ; but compromise is always weakness—fur w ht.iher dishonest or not, it looks like honesty. We could have heartily de sired that upon the occasion of Lord Ashley s late propositior, every Member of the Hou >e of Commons had voted according to his own conscientious judgment, the effect of which would undoubtedly have been to leave the Ministry in a minority, and remove them for a -.no ment from office ; but it would have been for a moment only. Without a dissolution of Parliament the Con• servative majority would have insisted upon the resump tion of office by a - Ministry that had achieved so much for the peace, the wealth, the prosperity, and safety of the country ; or with a dissolution, the present Conservative majority of 100 would have been about doubled, by reason of that very stand made for the la bouring classes by the Conservatives in Parliament. Lord John Russell,' Lord Howick, and the other Whigs saw this, and they hedged, as the jockey's phrase is, in contemplation of the possible appeal to the country ; we will not give any more charitable con struction to their pirouette, because we do not find one of them offering amends' to the memory of the great and good man who commenced the work of protection, and whom they persecuted for doing so—Michael Thomas Sadler the only man of whom we know anything that ever deserved to go before Lord Ashley. To have out-voted Ministers on the factory question would have done no harm, but a great deal of good, to the Conservative part•; but what possible good can result to the Conservative interests from the attempt to rundown the Conservative Cabinet —the best Ministry, too, that the country has had for half a century? Will abuse of Sir R. Peel's Govern ment tell in tavour of a Conservative candidate on the hustings, or anywhere else? And, next, we would have our readers to remember the parties who urge them into a course prima facie so unwise. STRANGE MALADY IN NEW BRUNSWICK. (From the Montreal courier, April 12.) We translate the following from the Quebec Cana cl:en ; we have seen no account of the affair in any of the lower province journals as yet:— " The Governor of New Brunswick, Sir W. Cole brooke, has sent a message to the Legislature on the sub ject of a disorder the most hideous and fatal, which exists amongst the French population on the borders of the Gulf of St. Lawrence, and which the Medical men of the neighbourhood consider resembles the fr feprosy of the seventeenth centary. " The Chamber of Representatives went into com mittee on the 21st of March, to take into consideration this message, and the documents which accompany it. It appears from these papers, says the New Brunswicker, that this disgusting malady made its appearance in 1824, and that since that year seven persons have died of it, after languishing for five or six years in the most miserable condition; one of these patients, who had been sequestree' in a log hut, and fed through a hole, died, as is believed, in a state of mental derangement, and the contagion was so dreaded, that, in some cases, the in spector of the poor had been himself obliged to carry to these unfortunate creatures the food necessary for their subsistence, and for which they still preserved their natural appetite and desire. " Those who maintain the contagious nature of the disease assert that it has been communicated by sleeping with those who were afflicted with it, and that a young man who had assisted in bearing the bier of a dead patient, and on whose clothes some corrupt matter from the corpse had dropped, took the disease and died of it. " It appears, in addition, that there are at this mo ment twelve patients labouring under this malady in the county of Gloucester, and about the same number on the other side of the line which separates that county from that of Northumberland. It is probable that there are others who conceal their sufferings, fearing that if they were known to be thus afflicted they would be shunned by their neighbours. " Amongst the other cases enumerated is that of a woman who was shipwrecked at Carraquet, on her way to Quebec, and who afterwards returned to Chatham, where the malady developed itself, and was communi cated to two other persons in the family, with whom she resided, and also to a child who frequented the house, who all died. It appears that the disease is invariably fatal. " The reading the different documents which accom panied the message excited in the Chamber a lively sym pathy for these unfortunates. Doctors Thomson and Earl both declared their opinion that the disease was not leprosy. The former of these physicians explained in a most lucid manner the mode of living and the habits of the French population amongst whom this malady has manifested itselt—a population, he said, amongst whom many bad habits are prevalent, which not only predis pose them to receive scrofulous maladies of every kind, but render those maladies more difficult of cure. He recommends, above everything, to change the manner of living and food of these poor people, and to impress both on their minds and bodies, by education and amusements, an action more healthy and vigorous. The Chamber, by a unanimons vote, granted 5001. to the Executive to pro cure for those unfortunates the assistance of medicine, to separate those who are afflicted with this horrible malady from the other inhabitants, and to ameliorate the short span ofexistence which remains to the afflicted." MURDER AND ROBBERY. Yesterday morning considerable excitement was created at the Thames Police-court by a rumour that a man named Luke Williams, proprietor of tie Chequers public-house, Wapping-wall, had been robbed and murdered at a brothel, 6, Brunswick-place, Dorset-street, Ratelitf. With the ex ception that the man still breathes, though without the :itlighteSt chance of recovery, the report proved but too true. • :It AAttinis that Williams, though a married man, and nearly sitiSVYears of age, had formed a connexion with a young worn= named Rosetta Bragger, who resided at 6, I.lruns wick-place. Ho had frequently been robbed in that house before, but in consequence of his attachment to the young woman, always refused to give the parties in charge. About ten minutes to nine o'clock in the forenoon of yes terday, information was conveyed to Sergeant llarris, the acting inspector, that Williams had been robbed, and was then lying insensible at his own house, in a most precarious condition. He immediately directed Wiseman, 156 K, who had been on duty in Dorset-street the previ o us day, together with Munford, another constable of the K division, to lose no time in taking into custody all the parties supposed to be implicated in the robbery and assault, and, accordingly, about three o'clock, James Halstead, a coalwhipper, Alexander Nicholson, a milkman, Mary Anne Ashe, and her sister, Rosetta Bragger, who was the chief attraction of Williams to Brunswick-place, were brought up to this Court, Halstead being charged with having assaulted Williams, and the three latter with having robbed him of about 30/. Police constable Wiseman stated, that on Sunday morning, about half-past 8 o'clock, having been informed by Mrs. Williams that her .husband had been robbed in Brunswick place of a 20/. note, a 51. note, and some sovereigns, he went to the place, and found Williams outside the door, and was answered from the window by the prisoner Rose, who re fused to admit either of them. Williams then broke a pane and undid the sash, when they both entered, and found the two female prisoners and their mother. Williams refused to give any of them into custody until the prisoner Nicholson, who resided in the house, and had part of the money, came home, when he would give him and Mary Ann Ashe in charge. Witness called again at 4in the afternoon, and saw Williams, as he thought, insensibly drunk on a chair. Mary Ann Ashe was there, and another sister, named Louisa ; but Nicholson had not returned. The mother of the female prisoners told witness that Williams had been fighting with a man outside, who first lent him a shilling, and then knocked him down. Mrs. Williams then came and took her husband home in a cab. 'Yesterday morning about 9 o'clock, by di rection of Sergeant Harris, who ordered him to take all the parties implicated into custody, witness apprehended 'Nichol son on the charge of robbery. At the station-house Nicholson admitted that he saw Williams on Saturday morning with his waistcoat-pocket full of sovereigns, and received a sove reign from him to get a half-pint 0£ rum. Witness asked Nicholson, who appeared to have been drinking, what money he had then about hint, and he answered about a sovereign in silver ; but, on being searched, 21. and 6d. in silver, and 41d. in copper, were found upon hint. About 11 o'clock the two female prisoners were apprehended at a cookshop in 'Broad-street, Ratclitr. Since then, witness ascertained that Williams, who, he understood, was still insensible and not expected to live, had shown two Bank of England notes at a public-house in Brook-street. When witness first saw Wil liams he had a severe black eye, which he said he had re ceived from a man named. Bragger, not yet in custody, and who either is, or passes as, the husband of the female prisoner of that name. Elizabeth Villiers, proprietress of the King's Head, at the corner of Periwinkle-street, Ratelitf, saw the man Williams at her house on Saturday with two notes and some gold and silver, which he pulled out of his pocket. The gold and silver might amount to about 41. or 51. 'They fell ton► him at the bar; but she picked up the money and returned it to him, wrapping the gold in the notes, and saying " You foolish man, take care of your money." Rebecca Ashe, the mother of the female prisoners, said that on Sunday morning, between 11 and 12, Williams came to the house drunk, and Halstead was authorised by Nicholson to turn him out, upon which Halstead and Williams struck at each other once. George Bragger said he went to Dorset-street to see his brother for the purpose of having a walk, when he met two policemen who told him Williams had been robbed. Nichol son came there; but the policemen did not take him into custody. He slept with Nicholson, who went out at half past five on Monday morning to sell his milk. The witness said he had been all day at the house No. 6, Brunswick place, with the exception of having ran across the street t o the Lamb to get a drop of beer. When ho returned he sa w Williams on the ground, bleeding at the mouth, and Halstead over him. Witness said, " Come ; we've had quite enough of that ; let us have no more of it." Mr. Rose, surgeon, of High-street, Shadwell, saw Williams at ten o'clock on Sunday night, when he was quite insensible, witness believed from some external injury. The left eye was black and the lower lip cut and swollen. Witness could not swear positively whether the injured man was re duced to his present state by drunkenness or external violence, until after a post mortem examination. Mrs. 'Williams could testify as to his state before the injury ; but she was at present at his bed side. Witness endeavoured to rouse him, but in vain ; and there was no likelihood of his surviving two hours longer; neither was it probable that his depositions could be taken. The constable, Wiseman, said that the witness Bragger was brother to the man not yet in custody, and who was sup posed to have inflicted the blow alluded to by the surgeon. He had thrown every possible obstacle in the way of the inquiries instituted by the police. Mr. BAILANTYNE—Then why is not ho in custody? . By his own showing he was amongst the people implicatetlin a transaction likely to end iu a man's death. Bragger was immediately transferred to the dock amongst the other prisoners. Mr. BALIANTYN It remanded the prisoners until Wednes day, and directed that immediate notice should be gii ) en if Williams so far recovered as to be able to make depositions.' We have since learned that the unfortunate mau died in the course of the evening. The deceased was fifty -eight years of age, and was formerly a courier in the service of her Majesty's Government. He was superannuated a few years ago on a pension of 801. per annum. MUNIFICENT GlFT.—George Bayly, E s . of Brunswick-terrace, Plymouth , has given the mu nificent sum of 2,0001. to trustees in perpetuity, the interest of which is to be appropriated for ever as follows :-20/. year to the Devon and Cornwall Female Orp han, Asp. luna ;_,201 to the Damn -and-Cortiwall to the Eye Infirmary ; and 10/. to the Freo School— {Vert Briton, IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, 3118 20 Their Lordships assembled at Five o'clock. Messengers from the Commons brought up several Bills. The Bishop of CHESTER presented several peti tions against the union of the see., of St. Asaph and Bangor. Lord CAMPBELL presented several petitions, praying the House to legalise Presbyterian mired marriages. LANCASTER AND CARLISLE RAILWAY. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented a petition from the Lancaster and Carlisle Railway Company, praying their Lordships to facilitate the progress of this Railway Bill through Parliament. Lord BROUGHAM did not wish to interpose any unnecessary delay in the progress of this Bill. He must say, however, that it was rather a novel pro ceeding on the part of railway jobbers to present a petition to their Lordship; praying their Lordships to interfere between the two Houses of Parliament, when a conference had taken place between them on the subject of some particular Bill. He would just state generally the facts of the case to their Lordships. He had consented to abandon his opposition to the Lancaster and Carlisle Railway Bill upon certain conditions. Had it not been fur those conditions, he would have opposed the Bill in every stage, and he would have devoted himself to that opposition, and he would have done nothing else but oppose the Bill for a period of six months.— (Laughter.) His Noble I riends laughed, but let them be placed in the same situation, and they would find it no laughing matter. It was no laughing mat ter to be driven from your own home by a railway being brought so near to that home as to make it quite impossible to remain there—to be driven from that home in which your ancestors had dwelt for up wards of 900 years. He had waived his objection to this Bill for the public good, upon two conditions. One of these conditions had been performed, the other had not. It was very well to say that the condition had not been fulfilled, because the House of Commons would not consent to it. He could not yet discover in what way the opposition to the clause had been raised in the other House of Parliament. Indeed the Right Honourable Speaker had assured him that the clause was very much talked of in the House before ,it was discussed in the Committee. He -.lla&hargained with the parties to the Bill to withdraw his opposition, on condition that he should have the clause, and it was of no use for them to say that the Commons would not agree to it. He should therefore oppose the Bill, as they had taken away the condition on which he had taken away his opposition. Some of the members of the Company were most respectable men, and his friends, and in capable of any fraud. Bat some one connected with the other parties had procured the fraud to be done. He would ask their Lordships, how would any of them like a jobbing railwaycompany to cutthrough their grounds, to keep a waste all round their domains for three or four years—to drive them from the mansions, and castles, and villas, in which their ancestors had been domi ciled for centuries—and to have their privacy broken in upon by hordes of labourers from every part of the United Kingdom ?—(Hear and laughter.) Still he had pledged his word that, on condition of obtaining the clause, he would withdraw his opposition. But he would not consent to be trampled upon by any Company, because they were many and he was but one.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Lord CAMPBELL said that the opposition of his Noble and Learned Friend might be very proper, and the clause might be very justifiable. But the opposition to it, as he understood, was grounded on the fact that it had been introduced, not in Commit tee, but upon bringing up the report, and that with out notice, so that it was passed sub silentio. It was on that ground, as explained to their Lordships in the conference, that the House of Commons threw out the clause.—(Hear, hear.) He was sure that no one could suppose it was thrown out to disoblige his Noble and Learned Friend, for (as he said unfeignedly) no one could think of disobliging his Noble and Learned Friend, who was so courteous and obliging.—(Laugh ter.) The objection to the clause was, that it ought not to have been inserted without notice. Lord BROUGHAM said that the objection to want of notice was groundless, inasmuch as the other parties had assented to the clause.—(Hear, hear.) For his part he had rather throw out the Bill than accept the clause.—(Hear.) The Marquis of CLANRICARDE wished to ex plain why he had presented the petition. He had taken no interest in the measure, but as the petition was placed in his hands he had thought it his duty to present it. He under stood the facts to be, the Railroad Company had no objection to the clause, but that the Com mittee of the House of Commons looked upon it as in the nature of an amendment upon a Turnpike Bill, and therefore rejected it because it had been intro duced without notice as required by the standing orders. He thought this so great and important a railway that it ought not to stop because the House of Com mons would not pass an Act to amend a Turnpike Act. He hoped his Noble Friend would have no ob jection to discuss this subject to-morrow, or Thurs day. The Noble Marquis concluded by moving that the petition should lie on the table, and that the reasons of the House of Commons for disagreeing with their Lordships' amendments should be printed. —Agreed to. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from a place in Lancashire, in favour of the Roman Catholic Charitable Bequests Bill. HARBOUR OF PORT PATRICK. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY seeing the Noble rao, the First Lord of the Admiralty in his place, wished to know whether it was the intention of the Government to withhold this year any grant for the purpose of putting the harbour of Port Patrick and Donaghadee in a proper state of repair. If that harbour was not to be kept up as a packet-station, it ought at least to be put in a proper state of repair, so as not to endanger the lives of her Majesty's subjects, and if it was not so the fault would be with her Majesty's Ministers, of whom it would be said that they would not expend the paltry sum of 8,0001. to secure the lives of her Majesty's subjects. The Earl of lIADDINGTON said that this sub ject had excited a great deal of interest. Last year when his Noble Friend put a similar question to him, he stated that it was not the intention of her Ma- jesty's Government to take any vote for the improvement of Port Patrick, as the Government believed that they had done enough towards the construction of the harbour. Since, however, his Noble Friend had given him notice of this question, he had made inquiry, and he found that a communication had been made to the Government, and the result of that was that the Go vernment had altered their former determination, and they now intended, in the course of the present ses sion, to take a vote fur the purpose of dredging the harbour of Port Patrick and Donaghadee. The Earl of GALLOWAY expressed a hope that steamers of great power would be placed upon this station. After a few words from the Marquis of DOWN SHIRE, the subject dropped. CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD RAILWAY. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE wished to put a question to the Government on the subject of the Chester and Holyhead Railway, as it was called. He wished to learn whether the Government would have any objection to refer this Bill to a Select Committee, inasmuch as he understood that if it should pass, a con ' siderable sum of public money would be expended by the Government in carrying out the project ? The Earl of _DALHOUSIE said there was no ob jection on the part of the Government to the appoint ment of such a Committee, but he would remind their Lordships that the subject had already been fully dis cussed in both Houses of Parliament. After a few words from Lord KENYON, The Marquis of CLANRICARDE gave notice that he should to-morrow move that this Bill be re ferred to a Select Committee. THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVE TI_IsYG, MAY 21, 1844. anticipate any objection to the second reading. It was a Bill to amend the law relating to factories which was passed in 1836, and the measure was founded on the report of the Commissioners on that subject. He would now endeavour to explain what difference there was between the proposed and the existing law. The first alteration proposed was with respect to children in factories. At present children from nine to thirteen years of age worked nine hours a day. Now the presse Bill, in the first place, proposed to make the age eight instead of nine, and to decrease the hours of labour to six and a half hours, making certain provisions with respect to the children going to school for a certain number of hours in each day, namely, three and a half hours in sum mer and two aria a half in winter; and the utmost work for any male child under the provisions of the new Act would be seven hours. He was sure that he need not point out to their Lordships the fact that such a provision would prevent a great deal of overworking in chil dren. The regulation by the law, as it now stood, was, that all young persons between thirteen and eighteen should be restricted to twelve hours' labour. The present Bill made no alteration in that respect, but it restricted the labour of females and young per sons. The other provisions of the Bill affected the inspectors. In the former Bill they had the power of acting as magistrates, and making rules and regula tions ; both those powers were by the present Bill taken away. It was thought necessary that the re gulations should be fixed by law, and not be left to the discretion of the inspectors. This Bill provided that no child should be allowed to go into a factory without a surgeon's certificate, and the expense of those certificates was to be defrayed by the millowner. The Bill also provided that the existing fines upon millowners for infringing the provisions of the factory laws should be reduced, so as to insure their being imposed in every case where it should be necessary. The Bill also contained provisions respecting ma chinery, inasmuch as it provided that certain guards should be placed round the machinery in facto ries, so as to protect the persons employed upon it. These were the general provisions of the Bill. Their Lordships were aware that there had been considerable difficulty in passing this Bill through the House of Commons. The Go vernment, unfortunately, were compelled to differ with some of their best supporters. But there were times when it was the duty of the Government to be firm. It was the duty of the Government to inform themselves, as well as they could, upon the particular subject before they proposed any law, and they had studiously done so with respect to this Bill. The Marquis of NORMANBY said the Noble Lord had introduced this Bill with sufficient clear ness, but, at the same time, he had not entered much into detail as to the principles upon which the mea sure had been introduced by the Government. Hav ing occupied the department of the Government be fore which this subject more immediately came, he (the Marquis of Normanby) had devoted considerable attention to it. He felt that the present Bill did not go far enough.—(Cheers.) His opinion, in spite of the ironical cheer from his Noble Friends behind him, was, that as they had once commenced inter ference with labour, the Bill did not go far enough. No doubt, in stating this opinion, he should be placed with those who had been termed idle philan thropists ; but this would not deter him from the full expression of his opinions upon the subject. He had always felt that, owing to the vast accumulation of population in the manufacturing districts, some mea sure of legislation was necessary with respect to the hours of labour of the working portion of that popu lation. He had observed that, for many years past, the owners of factories had employed women and chil dren whenever they could, to the exclusion of the male portion of the population ; and it was a very common thing, in the manufacturing districts, to see a mother and her children working, while the husband was at home, living in a state of forced idleness. He believed that a limitation of the laws of labour could, in a great measure, remedy this evil. He did not believe that a reduction in the hours of labour to ten hours would injure any branch of our manufactures. Twelve hours daily toil was too much, for it would only leave about nine hours of repose, inasmuch as one hour and a half would be daily consumed in the meals of the operative, and the other hour and a half would be consumed in going to and from the factory. Those who worked by tilling the soil did not work, on the average, twelve hours per day through the year, because their hours were limited by the light of day. Why, then, should the operatives in the manu facturing districts work longer? He (the Marquis of Normanby) was aware that, in expressing this opinion, he was differing from many of those with whom he had the happiness usually to concur, He did not intend to make any motion on the sub ject, or to offer any opposition to this stage of the BiII ; he had merely risen to enter his protest against that portion of the Bill which referred to the hours of labour, as it was his firm conariction, that the limits which had been proposed were much too great. He did not think it was necessary to do more than state his opinions upon this question. Much as he regarded its importance in itself, he regarded it much more in consequence of the manner in which it had been brought to its present state. Looking to the names by which the measure had eventually passed in the other House, he thought the means by which those names had been obtained were of great importance. The Earl of DEVON put it to the Noble Mar quis whether it was proper that they should in that House discuss the grounds upon which Members of the other House had given their votes ? Lord KENYON thought the Noble Marquis was in perfect order in discussing the manner in which the Bill had come up to that House ; but he was not in order in commenting on individual votes in the other House of Parliament. The Marquis of NORMANBY said that he did not mean to remark upon the individual votes. But as it had been asserted in the other House, dur ing the discussion of that Bill, that the working classes were not represented in Parliament, he felt it right to express his regret that anything should have been done to justify that statement, and to make the people discontented with the present state of the Con stitution, and to impress them with the belief that however they might be virtually represented in Par liament, their interests were not represented. He did not think that the seat of any one Member of the House of Commons would be affected by the rote which he had given upon that question, because it did not affect the interest of those who were directly af fected. In the northern division of the county of York there was, even amongst that class of electors, a strong feeling upon the subject ; and there wo uld be a great d ea l o f surprise that the Go vernment, which had received so great a support there, should stake its existence upon that Bill. If he supported the Government, he would have thought their conduct most injudicious and unfortunate. See ing that he could gain nothing by resisting the second reading of the Bill, he would not oppose it, but con tent himself by giving his protest against it. Lord BROUGHAM would occupy the House very shortly ; but he must say that from the very beginning of his Noble Friend's speech to theit, he had only heard reasons whyly Brougham) was opposed to the Bill us he end (Lo of d f Coto. He opposed a Twelve Hours' Bill and a Ten Hours' Bill,—(Hear, hear.) Those who opposed any interference with labour might go so far as to agree with the restriction of twelve hours ; but that was no reason why they should go a stage further, and vote for a ten hours He had already so fully expressed his opinions OP the subject, when the Labour in Mines Bill was before the House, that it was not necessary to take ap the time of the House at any length in that discussion. His Noble Friend re gretted that the House of Commons had come to this decision, because fie thought that it would be the means of convincing the working classes that the Reform Bill had not done them justice—that they were not represented in that House, because that branch of the Legislature refused to say that the peo ple should have a legislative shackle put upon them, and that they should not work as many hours as they found themselves able to do, and as they wished to work. These shackles would be as oppressive as any of those on the other side of the Atlantic. It would place those people under the shackles of an Act of Parliament, and would not leave them at liberty to exert their natural powers to their own best advantage. Ilow would any higher class of la bourers like to be confined to ten hours of labour ? But it was from the blunder that they would get twelve hours' wages for ten hours' work, that the whole outcry arose.—(Fear, hear.) He could only ascribe the support of tech a measure as this to a mistaken humanity on the part of its promoters.—(Hear.) It had been said that the agricultural labourers were exempt from such toil as those engaged in the facto ries. It was said that those had more bread and less labour. But that was not the fact, and if ever the question of the condition of labourers in the factories came before the House, he would be prepared to show that the condition of the agricultural labourers was much worse.—(llear, hear.) He would show that they were hardly fed, badly clad, severely wrought.—(Hear, hear.) He would show that in those districts where fuel was dear, they returned— men and boys, and women, too—in inclement weather, through rain and through snow, to houses which did not keep out the wind and the rain—to beds which were not once dry throughout the entire winter—(Hear, hear)—and with clothes which, in wet seasons, were always wet.—(Hear.) A boy of 17 followed the plough ; he was exposed to all species of weather, and yet nobody thought of protecting him ; they left him to make his own bar gain, and if he was under the age that had been adverted to, he was left to the care of his parents as his natural protectors,. He warned their Lordships. riot to interfere with the provisions of nature which had implanted in parents the love of their children. The Legislature ought to interfere between parent and child, the effect of which would inevitably be to deaden the natural feelings of nature. The present Bill had made a great change in the law with respect to factories—it had provided with respect to women that they should not work over a certain num ber of hours, supposing that a woman was not com petent to make a bargain as well as any one else. lie would not object to the Bill further, except enter ing his protest against it, believing that the best course to adopt would be to leave those who laboured in factories to legislate for themselves us to the time they should work.—(Hear, hear.) The Marquis of NORM ANBY explained. The Earl of WINCHILSEI considered this Bill to be a great improvement on the present law, but he could not but express his regret that the limitation of the labour of children in factories had not been re duced to ten hours. lie believed that the atmosphere they breathed was of the most pernicious character. They could not compare the agricultural labourer with the manufacturing labourer, because the former breathed fresh air while the other inhaled the most obnoxious vapours. lie thought the Legislature had very justly established the principle of interference. Ten hours was the extent of labour which the great body of the agricultural labourers in this country underwent. Such a picture of misery among the agricultural labourers, as the Noble Lord had drawn, did not, and could not exist ; but he trusted the time would come when the manfacturers themselves would find it to their advan tage to limit the hours of labour of children in their factories. Lord CAMPBELL supported the Bill. He could not agree with his Noble Friend that the Legislature ought not to interfere, because he thought there were cases in which the Legislature ought to interfere with labour. He thought they could not safely go further in the reduction of labour than twelve hours; and he believed that there never was an instance of less labour than that of the manufacturers of this country, with the exception of the case alluded to by Sir Thomas More with respect to Utopia.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, having read an extract from the writings of Sir Thomas, proceeded:— Until his Noble Friend could persuade him that the statement of Sir Thomas More with respect to Utopia was correct he (Lord Campbell) should persist in supporting the Twelve Hours' Bill. The Earl of lIADDINGTON said that her Majesty's Government had been accused of inconsistency with respect to this measure. He could not for a moment understand upon what ground this assertion had been made. It had been said that her Majesty's Ministers, in the other House ofParliament, were exceedinglyanxious that their supporters should give votes in accordance with the wishes of their constituents, and they de termined upon relying for support with respect to that Bill apon their political opponents. Now, he could not allow this foolish assertion to go forth with out protesting, in his place in Parliament, against it. A more absurd proposition was never put forth, for it was ridiculous to suppose that any Government could resort to such a feeble attempt to obtain support for any measure whatever, The Earl of MINTO objected to this measure, not on the ground of its not going far enough, but on the ground that it went a great deal too far. He was entirely opposed to any interference with adult la bour whatever. The Earl of lIADDINOToN and the Marquis of NOEMANEY briefly explained. Lord WHARNCLIFFE, in reply, denied that the Government had used any influence to turn the majority in the other House of Parliament in their favour. He believed that the agitation which had been got up in the country upon this question had been got up for improper purposes. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on the 31st inst. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 20. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. NEW WRIT. On the motion of Sir J. CHETWODE, a new writ was ordered for the borough of Buckingham, in the room of Sir Thomas Fremantle, who, since his election had accepted the office of Secretary at War. The Whitehaven Railway Bill was read a third time and passed. SHEFFIELD, ASHTON-UNDER-LYNE, AND MANCHESTER RAILWAY. On the motion that this Bill be read a third time. Mr. ESTCOURT sail, that an arbitration clause had been introduced into this Bill, which, if passed, he thought would establish a dangerous precedent. He would, therefore, suggest that the third reading of the Bill be postponed for a fortnight, in order that a person might be sent down to Ashton, by the Board of Trade, to settle the disputed point, and that a clause founded upon his report should be in troduced into the Bill. Mr. LABOUCHERE, as Chairman of the Com mittee, - was inclined to agree with the Hon. Gentleman in this proposition, inasmuch as he believed that the substantial object for which the Committee had been appointed had been accomplished. The simple question was how the land which the 'Company were not about using should be appro priated. He was obliged to the Mon. Member for bringing the matter before the Ilouse, and also thought that his views were the best and soundest that had been taken of the matter. After a few words from Mr. PARKER and Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET, the third reading was post poned for a fortnight. The third reading of the Ashton and Staleybridge Railway Bill was likewise postponed for a fortnight. DUBLIN AND CASHEL RAILWAY. Mr. HAMILTON presented a petition from the Grand Jury of Dublin, in favour of the line of Rail way between Dublin and Cashel. Mr. GLADSTONE rose to move that as much of the Fourth Report of the Select Committee on Rail ways as related to the alteration of the 33d standing order be adopted by the House. The adoption of this proposition was a matter of great importance to all parties connected with railway property. In proposing the repeal of that part of the standing order which related to deposits, he by no means wished to cast the slightest imputation on the stand ing order itself. When made, it might have been the best which the House could adopt, and he had no doubt it was a wise and salutary provision.—(Hear.) Its operation had been this, that money was ad vanced, and so far the House had a guarantee that the parties connected with the Bill were acting bond fide. But, with regard to the persons by whom the money was to be deposited, the Standing Order was not complied with, for the money was principally advanced by persons interested in the new scheme who had the command of capital. The standing order was passed with a view of dis countenancing unsound speculations, but it operated also to check those speculations which were sound in themselves, and at a time when trade was depressed, when it was rather desirable to stimulate undertakings of this description. So far as regarded those periods which were not periods of active speculation generally the reduction of the deposits would produce almost unmixed good. It might be asked what security had they except from the deposits ? His answer was, they did not propose to do away with the deposits altogether, but to reduce them, and the great advantage of deposits was not so much in their amount as in their being deposits of any amount. But he thought it would be necessary that tLe House should take some measures to make a more strict examination into Railway Bills than heretofore -that they should look more narrowly into the public reasons and objects of such Bill than they were previously accustomed to do—(Hear) —because he admitted that if it was probable they should continue for future years to abide by the same unregulated proceedings with regard to Railway Bills, which prevailed to a great extent up to the present time, the proposition which he now made, although it might be deserving of adoption on some grounds, would, on the whole, be liable to grave objections. He was not now prepared to explain in definite terms the precise nature of the measure to which he referred, because its precise nature was now occupying the anxious attention of the Committee to which that House had delegated inquiry upon the whole subject of railways ; but he did say that some measure for the examination of railway schemes was requisite, and it wss because he believed that proposition to be in disputable, that he ventured to put it to the House that they might proceed so far as to part with a cer tain portion of the security which they had hitherto possessed. The proposition which he now made to the House would have the effect of assimilating the rule of the House of Commons to the rule which subsisted in the House of Lords, and he had been apprised on good authority that that rule was not adopted by the House of Lords without mature consideration, which he thought an additional recommendation for the adop tion of his proposition. He therefore begged leave to move that the standing order No. 33 be rescinded. There was another matter to which he wished to refer. It had been suggested that the parties, instead of being obliged to deposit money, should be allowed to deposit Exchequer bills or other public securities. It ap peared to those parties that they were obliged to leave money in an unfruitful state when it was thus deposited. But there was nothing in the Act of Parliament which should prevent the invest ment of those deposits in the public secu rities after the deposits had been made. He did not think it would be expedient that Parlia ment should require the money to lie without pro ducing interest, because that would be imposing a pecuniary fine. Such was not the case as the law stood at that moment, and therefore the Committee had not made any recommendation. The Clerk having read the Order at full length, Mr. HUME said he had listened with, great attention to what had fallen f rom the Right Hon. Gentleman, but, looking at the evils which the stand ing order was intended to prevent, he had great doubts as to the propriety of abrogating it. He was not aware, from the notice, of the extent to which the Right Hon. Gentleman intended to go. He confessed he did not see why greater facilities should be afforded to speculators of this kind than to any others. It had been proved before the Committee that one hundred labourers had received five shillings each fur signing five different names, subscribing 5,0001., in order to make out the list for the prospectus. That was by no means a solitary case. Now he could not see any inconvenience, when a rail way was to be constructed, in having the subscription lodged in Exchequer bilis. He thought that 10 per cent. was not a large sum to deposit. He had doubts as to the propriety of making these ex ceptions in favour of Railroad Bills. He asked that before assent to this proposition, the evidence on which the Committee had determined should be laid upon the table. He thought this discussion should be postponed until the evidence should be before the House. Mr. LABOUCHERE despaired of being able to add anything to what had fallen from the Right Hon. the President of the Board of Trade. lie agreed with the Hon. Member for Montrose, that when these undertakings were little understood it was right to have 10 per cent. deposited, but now that they were better understood such a regulation was no longer necessary. At a time too when so many persons were wanting employment, it was es pecially desirable to encourage these undertakings. He could confirm the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman that the subject had been fully discussed in that Committee before the recommendation had been agreed to. Sir R. PEEL admitted that the House was not bound by the recommendation of the Committee, but still, when they had appointed a Select Ccimmittee, although their recommendation was not binding on the House of Commons, he thought it was at least entitled to the respectful consideration of the House. The Committee was composed of gentlemen ad mirably qualified to decide upon the subject, and who had the advantage of deliberating upon it ; but he took higher ground upon this occa sion. The carrying of this motion would materially facilitate the passing of the Bill for the construction of the Dublin and Cashel Railway.—(Hear, hear.) This railway had been undertaken without any Government grant. It had been undertaken by persons of every party in politics. It was of great importance that the example set in this instance should be encouraged. It would tend to give employ ment to the labouring classes in Ireland ; and he hoped, before the cloSe of the session, that the Royal assent would be given to a Bill for the formation of a railway between Dublin and Cashel.—(Cheers.) Mr. VERNON SMITH wished for the postpone ment of the discussion ; he thought the reason given by the Hon. Gentleman ought not to influence the House. Mr. GLADSTONE said the recommendation did not extend to more than three or four lines. Mr. R. FERGUSON said that keeping the order as it at present stood was a practical fraud, and he proved that it did not afford the slightest security. After a few words from Mr. MASTERMAN, Mr. HUME replied—He had heard no answer to his objection, and he should, therefore, take the sense of the House on the question. Sir R. PEEL said the Hon. Gentleman had mis understood him; he had not supported the recom mendation for any specific Bill, but for the advantage it would give to the formation of railways in Ireland generally. Mr. WARBLTRTON supported the motion for the postponement. Mr. HUME thought the question ought to be ad journed till they got the evidence taken before the Committee printed. The lion. Gentleman moved, that the debate be adjourned. Mr. GISBORNE thought, if the question was put off upon the ground stated by the Hon. Member for Montrose, it would have the effect of putting it off till the end of the session. He hoped the House would at once agree to the resolution. After some observations from Mr. Hums and Mr. GLADSTONE, the amendment of Mr. Hume was with drawn, and the motion was agreed to. SAVINGS' BANKS. Mr. HUME gave notice that he would to-morrow ask for returns relating to savings' banks and Go vernment annuities. Sir R. FERGUSON moved for a return of the expense of each district lunatic asylum in Ireland for the year ending the 31st of March, 1844, showing the total annual expense, the annual average expense of each patient, the number of patients from each, and the sum charged to each county in the year ; also of the number of patients in each on the first day of April, 1843, the number admitted, the number discharged, distinguishing those discharged as cured, as relieved, as harmless and incurable, and the number transferred to workhouses ; the number who have died, and the total discharged, the number in each on the 31st of March, 1844, the number to whom admission was refused, and the average number in each asylum in each year ; also of the total expenditure in each asylum in the year, the total cost per head per annum, the expenses in furniture, bedding, and linen, the expen diture in fixtures, additions, and alterations, work men's bills, &c., the total expenditure in clothing, the total expenditure in salaries and servants' wages, the total expenditure in food only, the cost per head per annum for food, the cost per head per week for food, and the cost per head per day, all calculated from the average number of patients during the year ; also of the particulars of each salary, and servants' wages, and the total . amount of the same for the year; also of the number admitted into each asylum be tween the opening arid the 31st of March, 1844, the numbers discharged or recovered, the numbers dis charged or taken away by their friends as relieved, or harmless and incurable, or transferred to workhouses within that period; the number of relapsed cases, and the number who have died within that period, and the total number remaining in each asylum on the 31st of March, 1844. The Hon. Baronet also moved for similar returns from the Cork lunatic asylum; and also a return of the number of insane persons in each workhouse in Ireland, on the 31st day of March, 1844, with the estimated annual expense of each, and the total in public lunatic asylums and workhouses in Ireland, on the 31st day of March, 1844.—Ordered. Mr. HUME asked the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite if he had any objection to lay on the table of the House the correspondence between the Ame rican Minister and the British Government, relative to the annexation of Texas to the American Union ? The Right Hon. Gentleman would perceive that the whole of that transaction took place in con sequence of the interposition of Great Britain with Texas with respect to slavery. Sir R. PEEL was not prepared to lay on the table of the House any correspondence with respect to any treaty which had been signed relating to the annexa tion of that country. Mr. HUME did not want the correspondence re lating to a treaty having reference to the annexation of Texas. What he - wanted was the correspondence which related to putting down slavery in Texas. Sir R. PEEL wished to know if it were good po licy to publish just at the present moment that which had been published by another Government, and which could answer no good purpose? He thought it objectionable on principle, unless they were pre pared to follow up the example which had been set them by another Government. DISSENTERS' CHAPELS BILL. Sir R. INGLIS wished to get some information on the order in which the business of the House would be taken. He was anxious to know when the Dis senters' Chapels Bill would be brought on? Sir R. PEEL said it was impossible for him to say on what day the Bill would come on. He was anxious to make as much progress as possible with the important measure which was to be founded on the resolutions which he would move that night, viz., the Bank Charter Acts Bill. He therefore, thought that any discussion which might be taken on the Dissenters' Chapels Bill, should be taken on the second reading rather than in any other stage, and he would not take the third reading before Whitsuntide. With respect to any further arrange ments which would be necessary with respect to Government Bills, he would state them after W hit suotide. • BANK CHARTER The House then went into Opi . ninlttee on the Bank of England Chart e r Acta.- Mr: B. ESCOTT preserieed a petition, from the in habitants of the Cities of London and Westminster, praying the House to repeal the Currenu of 1819. Mr. SCHOLEFIELD presented a peiition, from Birmingham to the same effect. • Sir H. PEEL said he should be very.unwilllng to interpose any observations before the commencement of the discussion upon the resolutionaWhich he should move that evening, if he did not think it would• be for the convenience of Members. Who were likely to take part in that discussion, and for the advantage of the discussion itself, were he to make ex planations on some points with respect to which it was probable questions would be put—points relating rather to the details than to the general prin ciples of the measure. He was sure the House would bear in mind that it was necessary for her Majesty's Government to frame their measure, and for him, as the organ of that Government, to make the statement which he did on the 6th of May, without the advantage of communicating with parties whose opinions on such a question were entitled to great weight. In his opinion deep and entire secrecy in all matters relating to money was absolutely necessary. Making every concession to the honour anti integrity of individuals in matters affecting the monetiffkiptefe,Sts of• this country, the Government must be Contented - with availing itself of such information as the evidence taken before Committees and their own experience might supply. They must not enter into comma- YORK AND SCARBOROUGH RAILWAY BILL. Earl FORTESCUE brought up the report on thin Bill, and niored that the Committee be postponed till the 31st inst. Earl 1' ITZWILLIAM thought this Company ought to be allowed to make some deviation in their line, inasmuch as by the presentplan - it;;idLOn a level near to the private residences of many gen tlemen at Clifton. He had understood that in the distance between York and Scarborough there was to be only a single line. He would ask their Lord ships if they thought it wise to allow of a single line for such a distance ?—(Hear, hear.) He also under stood that it was intended to close the line between Maiden and Scarborough for a certain period of the year. He hoped their Lordships would look to the management of those schemes ; for, though he was a friend to railways, he thought the House should look closely to the propriety of single lines for long dis tances, and of excluding the public from the advan tage of the improved communication during parts of the year. • The Mlrquis of NORMANBY deprecated the ,digeussinn.at.,that stage of the Bill. Afters few :Words from the Earl of FORTES CUE-Irf explanation, the motion was agreed to. TheliikirtkliS of LANSDOWNE presented a peti tion trOtntinferick, praying their Lordships to pass a Bill tp, iggalise _Art- Unions. The Earl of DARTMOUTH presented a petition from the . RoyelTiriningham and Midland Counties Art-Union to the same effect. Lord BhAUMONT said that he should to-mor row move for papers relating to the trial of a Maltese British subject at Tunis. FACTORIES BILL. Lord. WHARNCLIFFE then : rose to move the second reading of the Factories Bill. Their LOrd ships would no doubt expect some explanation from him as to what the Bill was, although he did not nication with private individuals on such n,' e , If in the subsequent communications which I,s' had with such parties they had seen r eason . their views, they would have had no areal. proposing the neces s ar y alterations, but ,11311 the opportunity o f communication, he Nvas t , b°' t , say, that the G overnmen t sa w no reason Ivil3# modify the plan which he had proposed on 0 All the principles he then laid down he W r f ', to stand by ; he had seen the proprietors Stock, the Direct Ors of the Bank, represen,eo joint-stock and p r i va t e b an ks, and he was nrer? to say that th e G overnme nt felt any wil b ,„;; , , depart from the pl an p ro posed; and h e 0 the sense of the House upon that Pl an to ' ginally proposed. But th e re we re a few ° bo w , on the details of the plan which he must n° °f V i e ; land had proposed th a t th e i ssu es of the Ba nk R °. land should he m a d e p ar tly on se e-r 'tie' partly on bullion ; the issue on sear' he limited to 14,000,0001., and th e ms's on bullion. But th ere m i g ht be c irca in which the Bank might be requir td wii. crease its issues ; supposing that the sir e S u l e private joint-stock banks should, from " u tl ,' ; f, voluntary agreements, b e r e duced from eig.hgtt be to four millions a month, the Bank In . ' to quired to increase it s i ssu es in or der, ply the void thus created. That issu e t i l t' posed should be mad e u p on sec urities,. , pr p after a communication made to the (I° ',i` oi and with the consent of the First Lf„ ue r. Treasury, the Chancellor of the the President of the Board of T ra de : t not reserve that power from any di striJ n iee l ' principles he had laid d ow n, but to ,e le4 particular case of the concession on h t'' ptt banks of issue, and th e necess ity of t ' e , England, supplying the defi c i en cy with itsf ie ii: At the same time he c ons id ere d it advi saw A ttof sible, to prevent all interference in this T o ok the part either of the Executive or the ne1 5 : 4 0, Government. Yet, at the same time h e ,:he?', it would not be advisable t o g i ve the Ban' t, by law of increasing its circulation excePt tf cs cases. He was not quite clear that in eve t be ‘v hich there should be a void created bi b , r drawal of other circulation, it ought t°, cir°, p tcia o os w ne • r too nb o e f saese t ui h tr e i,s.ti.ae ß ss._a a t nk to increase c ' - up poss, securities.—(Hear, that hear. amount of bullion (about sixteen mill ) i t o lu n e i l i t e liel ; of the Bank, the Bank would have A C V; about thirty millions—namely, sixteen bullion and fourteen millions in securitl e t s idlig: 4 s the circulation of the sixteen millions ° 1 greater part would be dormant in t he ne lol the Bank, for about twenty-two millions v r oo that would be required for the circu ls .e ' o ct ls o l country. Now, in such a case, if a voi d * ,,iti o o o —say in Cornwall, for instance—by the 0 1 ,0 of 200,0001. of country bank notes fron i he was not prepared to say that the 10 once to increase its circulation UP°D4/,55 but if hereafter it should be n e ''' '4 the Bank to increase its circulati on t o c "0 tities, he thought that there should be /111 i t r r upon that power. He therefore proP c " tte d4is,, preamble of the clause to recite what r f, opinion of Parliament would justify' t". e ie":::' increasing its issue on securities. Thes e "tbe the failure of a country bank ; sec ondlY 6 , . drawal by a country bank of its : 1 0 thirdly, an undertaking on the r - c gc . lv ,o o l country bank to w ithd ra w its a o3 o i, if the Bank of E ng l an d wou ld su b s titut , e, r i 'bi4 r e p , the room of those o f th e coun t ry bank int o - in the preamble would show what NvasLk, of Parliament. He prop ose d that the P" ti cter t y it should consider it desirable t o make a n " c i e 1 41 46 its circulation, should not be permitted t c t i .eale cept upon application to the Executive ur t :',Der,; , and that such consent should ; be given I:4# jesty in Council, such consent t ../7 ° ,,, i 0',..1 4 lished immediately afterwards in the - 1 01 11 ';1 1 He preferred that to giving power to th e t oyo any circumstances to increase its issue s / 0 0i' was certain that while the present inap t° 09 Bank continued, that power would not beeboclo, vantage of; but it was desirable to have, i !,,tio c , V t he therefore proposed th a t th e y shoul d L: 00 O' their securities, except with the sa neti se v j o / Council, and not to permit an in er 7,6o o curities, except on the distinct con, 0, 011 the amount of all securities sh °ll ,, teed two-thirds of the amount of ion e 'lielpai i --that the issues on the increase of secn rl s ed be in conformity with the original principle,thirpoi be reserved if the bullion amounted to one;. g te nr bi total issues. There was another poin t ° h .d , portance connected with the issues of t 1,0 England, to which he did not advert on thiepiti°,4o sion. The question was, wind WAS the l e sil' o t? " bullion ?"—(Hear)—whether did it inch', o e ' 1 well as gold, and whether the Bank could the rep or silver as well as gold. It appeared froon; - ,, e made by the Bank, that with them bon' silver as well as gold. Should th e y inelli o d, the amount of bullion upon which it sh° ° ; ;0, 1 ,0 for the Bank to issue notes. This was yell They had not entered into any engage t hey, Bank on the subject, so that d ir t perfectly free. He knew their strict an co bs? herence to the principle laid down woul,(1„e, li e , ' issue of notes to the possession of gold 91° "0 111°Y limited the issues to the possession of g t . ° t her ei a' would not necessarily deprive the Bank °, l i t 11 0 1 sion of silver, because the Bank in,'g r di ;) priate a portion of the banking r, u , e , possession of silver ; and abate si ° ,ive '!' s , banking department ; but as this would I° ea % ) to e 5 bte turn, he thought it was hardly fair ee liEC, Bank would accede to it, howeve r te ptet` i i t e their views might be. If they P re v poi ls , Bank issuing any portion of their 13° 1 1 bolti they must expect the Bank woulu on' t g; little silver for the public accomnl° ohjec'o9' had given some consideration to thems he believed that considerable inconvenifro 15 ,;1 1 ,' if they altogether prevented the 13 si ll iv n e k r. re j s l t e;, F c ,s iF i ' o ", any portion of their notes upon now speaking of any compromise of the g that gold was the only standard. The ° v ) ld. 'tient by the Bank should be in i lialv 9 s ,"if f# person presented 501. in notes he ah° ll ,;fliet' A ght to demand fifty sovereigns in gold, an" . A r il s 1 of the real standard weight, he should ttansyc demand notes in exchange. The 7 0 o ff iit,,s the public with the Bank, s° anreif e ter was concerned, should be p e rfect making a reduction of about 13 0 ,clio 0 FP 9 „ 0 in the gold to be delivered in - tbt notes, and the gold to be received fr°illeativ'%. upon the demand of a person 1, 6 1:4 5 , 11 -1 notes. That was to say e y e he "'oil , Jo should have a right to sell gold to the demand payment in notes, receiving' ,"; 5 10!,00 1 , e : ounce for gold he presented, and that be 510! 4 right to demand gold in exchang e thus ae 10 receiving at the rate of 31. 17s. 1 0 i o ' , e P v e d. for the expense of coinage. of e ° fast 'to` le posed to make no alteration whatever ins richt Every man was t o be unfettered i n N e e r th e )+I mand gold in exch a n ge f o r his notes. ,UnQP 4 tion was, should he permit partial fsill'e.toti`f the Bank with r es p ec t t o the receiving ° 50 10 hoped the country would not admit th e e o toi of silver for gold, but at the sall' sv bie h e 3s t ( ' i were exposed to the inconvenience the # 0 00 0 ? from other countries adopting silver r e e f hi 3 At present the silver was sent out °t wo tiels i tj o in exchange for gold, and the gold „ it th e in the Bank. If they would Pe ri- re eei`;' ,, pS, to pay those who were w illing t ° o peu! c e ,O , 'l,l silver, when the Bank thought it oa t 410 11 ,i do so, the charge of that export and ilnr,iiver 0 0° 4 saved. There was another reason whYl ees ere iii er4 not be altogether excluded. Reinitta“,rote made to a very considerable ex pr te e n i t ent l ec l vou t i lil t be tt : o l and China in silver. If they from issuing silver alb gether, demand for it in this country'%afitries'dollif leek a market in foreign, ev r „, con. we # again, there was a great facility o f t 11 1 04 ,00 universal transactions with some Par` i n b e o pt i t o particularly with India and Ch i l i( ' th e „ e la stock of silver. If a WY, he l l ' ec e o ,l l e of.. getting silver from the 13 0 - 1 1 1 " W ere 0 ,1 to " 0 1,1 enabled to get remittances when til e y, ;I t iv° 0 1: from India or China, inAtead of hav!t!ia tot the Continent for it. It appeared to n_l_l' in i t edl l ' tte st l , i ih give facilities to commerce, if they s ilver , , it rod to issue some portion of its notes 111 3 7 be (:,i' e r r lO , silver as a valuable commodity, _t% 11 00 according to the option of the vale thereand 1.114 now ceased to he a standard ; no " refe rel' e ' r , gether. Formerly ss. 2d. In D O , 5 $ 1/I .te Mint price for silver, but there v as va4tesi now to that standard. Their sily n e r ot_ c doe t r al s l o f i e lit s r; j e ti r it to s k e2da.manouonutnocef idei;ltitibottiel,“rbt tae of to 405.; at the same time he t oe re be a great advantage in having tn . go r e ( in this country which would be us, n u elit il I .tio c h cation of the exchange. He wa,s, o l jo ie ar a o'n 4 rt a that the Bank should be allowed ti t tin t tiP t i i s e ,foll,he its notes upon silver, but that the u:'__ ee d o it should s'J issue notes should not x' on gold, of the amount which it issued uP_ for st Bank should issue notes uP ° _", e ilv e `i ri cr ‘ s v of gold and one million u_ dr y , e then if the Bank found it neee",,,, e asilo n fett j lossts supply sastai n o e f d gold, h e i t conversion f cg b e .th r_ e e_ at r oiii ee u v e lse t tl y ili ; o4t oo thiel into gold, because no legal demand, °n the be satisfied in silver; the Bank must , ve ot i f . ),'! ee eis` t 'ts O n lie r risk of the loss sustained by 1 „ Alai! t he 8 . -15 requiring that gold, and gold alot", :i i ii ing " o i, in payment of a debt—still rn, 11 '` f aeasn o c e V a li to principle upon which th is to an founded, he proposed to exc hange' , this advantage in rectifying tne . i