The Sun. — London, England, 1845-02-05 00:00:00

Ebtrb Utitttell SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock. • - • SP T * Au. PUBLIC- JOURNALS. EVENING I'AFF.RS OF THIS DAY. GLOBE. 1-1"04 Aobert Peel alone for " turning diseases •to .cornindliriri tide ies, quitted by a colleague of whom it ia 'not much - to sartlauthe was the sole re presentative in the Government Of tiny rif4:fotes.prin ciple of its party; and moreover that he .setes . Sin Robert Peel's sole reliance in debate on many ques tions.. One would h ave thou g ht this (morally speaking) a heavy blow, and a great discouragement. Sir Robert Peel makes a Merit of it He shows off Mr. Glad stone to the malcontent Irish Roman Catholics as a scape goat, whom he has driven into the wilderness, charged With all the sins of his party. See what a prize Protestant we have sacrificed !—what a credit to the flock we have whistled down the wind. All for the love of the Irish Ro man Catholics !—all for the sake of "the Romish Church n that country." In our humble judgment Lord J. Russell, in critiscising the mode of passing the Charitable Bequests Act, instead of pressing too hard upon the Premier, let him off too cheap. That Mr. Gladstone did so is not surprising.: As he did not mean to head a party against his late chief, he could not gracefully go farther. But we confess our surprise that the strongest point against the party in power has been tressed so little ; especially as that point is so salient that it canna escape any eye. The point we allude to is the flagrant inconsistency of S . r. Robert Peel's recent recognition of the Irish Roman ecclesiastics—not merely with the principles of his party—with thi professions of his past life—but' with the Emancipation Act, if not with the Act of Su premacy. - The Oath of Supremacy, administered to every candidate for a degree in the Dublin .University, affirms that the Roman Pontiff " hath not any ju risdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence, or autho rity, ecclesiastical or spiritual, within this realm." An "Ex-Scholar of Trinity College, Dublin," in the Dublin Evening Mail, puts the question to Dr. Radcliffe, Vicar-General of that Diocese—" Whe ther, on perusing the Charitable Bequests Bill —and observing that the ecclesiastical functions of men are therein recognised and ratified by British law, which functions are only conferred, and can be only conferred, by the Pope of Rome—and that the men bearing those functions are, in virtue of their official station, invested with certain powers under that Act in this country—permit me, Sir, to ask whether you choose to stake your official character on the pro priety of administering to candidates for degrees in the University, an oath in which they swear," &c. &c. We can conceive that the Ministerial advocates may get over this inconsistency, on the plea that they recog nise the Roman Prelates, not as appointed by the Pope —an appointment which they choose to know nothing of —but as the de facto spiritual dignitaries of the Roman Catholic population of Ireland. . They do not acknow. ledge the right of the Pope to appoint, but the right.of the people to receive them ; and they recognise the in only in consequence of the function they find them really holding. Well, we will let the Ministerialists off on the Oath of Supremacy. But let us just look at the Act of Emancipation By this Act, at all events, they built a wall, which, in the Charitable Bequests Act, they have been themselves first to run their heads asainst. - The follow ing was a leading provision of the Act of Emancipation, " for the peace and security of the Establishment and of the Protestant religion t"—" Whereas the right and title of archbishops to their respective provinces, of bishops to their sees, and of deans to their deaneries, as well in England as in Ireland, have been established by law; Be it therefore enacted, that if any person, after the com mencement of Allis Act, other than the person thereunto authorised by law, shall assume or use the name, style. or title of archbishop of any province, bishop of any bish, prie, or dean of any deanery, in England or Ire land, he shall for every such offence forfeit end pay the sum of 1001." Ce r t a i n ly no enactmen t could be devised better fitted to bring the law into contempt. The Doman Catholics consider their, prelates as de jure bishops of those very dioceses, whose titles Sir Robert Peel's Eman cipation Act forbade them to assume under a heavy penalty. Of course the titles were assumed ; and of course the penalties were not enforced. But what be came of that respect for the law, so desirable to create in Ireland? And what becomes of Sir R. Peel's own re spect for his own enactment? He is its first signal Protestant violator ! He is not content with having set tip an Act of Parliament, as a thing of straw, to be dis obeyed with impunity—he is not content without signalizing his own scorn for it in another Act of Par liamen's The Charitable Bequests Act recognises the Roman titles which the Emancipation Act forbids. Will it be said that those titles are neither recog nised as Roman nor local ? We will wave the former—we will suppose there is no breach of the Act of Supremacy. " C'est une fa-e supposition." But that titles of bishops and archbishops always suppose a " local habitation and name." Suppose Mr. O'Connell Roman Catholic Mayor of Dublin in the face of a Protestant legal one ; that the Act of Emancipa tion had imposed a fine of 100/. for assuming that title; and that the Charitable Bequests Act had re cognised • Mr. O'Connell as Lord Mayor —of Nowhere ? The Dublin Pilot pushes this recog nition to exceedingly awkward consequences : " Spiritual peerage was a creation of the law of Eng land, while England was yet Catholic—meaning by spiritual peerage the title of I-Ord or Dominus, accom panied with the right of taking a part in the LegiAa.- five Council or I,Jarliament of the nation. The law con ferred this title ,and privilege on Catholic eeclesiust:cs, in virtue of their having canonical consecration as pre late., which ordination and consecration they could de rive only f. ora -the See of Rome. Therefore, by the ancient constitution or common law of England, which time only can destroy, the title to the spit Dual peerage is canonical ordination and consecration in communion with the See of Rome. ...... The law iow tardily, and, we suspect, not very honestly, does recognise that SpiritUal peerage belongs to Catholic prelates—and, indeed to them alone. We should like to st e this great question tried at law. Suppose the Most Reverend Archbishop Daniel Murray insists that he is, as a British subject, and by virture of •the law of England, the true, legal Archbishop of Dublin, and claims to sit in Parliament, instead of Dr. Whateley, and so appeals to a court of justice, what would be the probable decision on such an issue ? Dr. Whateley could only show that he derives his cure a souls, as bishop,' from a lay tribunal. Dr. ti. urray could show that he has the canonical ordination and consecra tion required by the ancient law to entitle him to a spiritual peerage, which Dr. Whateley has not. Consequently, he is, in our mind, the true and legal Archbishop .of Dublin, and not Dr. Whate ley—and he, instead of the latter, should be called to sit in the British House of Peers." We shall no', of course, be supposed to acquiesce in this Ronianising conclusion. But it is evident to us that Sir R. Peel, . by the idle and most mischievous provision which, we have cited from the Emancipation Act, end by the . consequent unavoidable evasion in the Charitable Bequests Act of the local titular recognition of the Roman Catholic prelates, whom he recognised, has created an •embarrassment which is by no means merely fanciful. How much better, in the first place, never to have enacted the penal provision ! Or secondly, to have repealed it openly—And thirdly, to have given the Roman prelates their entire popularly acknowledged titles, accompanied simply by a saving clause for the concurrent legal. rights of the. Protestant prelates. What would have been simpler than to have recognised Dr. Murray as Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin ? which he is. LORD STANLEY.—We regret to state that Lord Stanley is suffering from so severe an attack of gout in the knee that his Lordship is not able to leave kis bed-room without assistance: TITS EARL .9F MORNINGTON.—The answer to numerous inquiries,this morning was that his Lordship con tinued in the same weak state. . The Earl ofLucanis to succeed the Marquis of bilge as Lord Lioutenant of the county of Mayo. Her Majesty will hold a Council to-day, at which Sir George Clerk will be sworn a Privy Councillor, and named Vice President of tho Committee of. Council for Trade —Evening Paper. SOUTHAMPTON, FEB. s.—The Peninsular and Oriental COMpany's steamer, Royal Tar, Captain R. W. Evans, arrived this morning, at eight o'clock, from the Pe ninsula, bringing the whole of the Peninsular mails. Her dates of *departure' are 'as follow :—From Gibraltar, 26th ult. ; Cadiz, 2i to ; Lisbon; 29th ; oil Oporto, 30th; and Vigo, 31st. Ships of war lying at Gibraltar— Her Majesty's steamer Flamer, Danish war-steamer Ilecla, Swedish frigate Josephine, and corvette Carlskrona. At Cadiz—Her Majesty's ship Scout, Danish brig Mercurius, Norwegian - corvette Nordstjernen. At Lisbon-French brig - Jan 29 -English transpo rt, Cygne. • General Palmer, bound to Ascension with troops, put into Lisbon on the 13th ult. for repairs, having sprung a leak in a gale of wind. There are twentv-three packages on board, and a fair average cargo o f merchandise. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. (THIS EVENING.) HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four o'clock. CALEDONIAN RAILWAY. Mr. H. JOIINSTONE presented a petition in favour of the Caledonian Railway Bill. PONTEFRACT AND GOOLE RAILWAY. _ Lord POLLINGTON presente d a pet i t i on i n favour of the Pontefract and Goole Railway Bill. A great number of petitions for new railway Bills were presented, but the petitions were read so indis tinctly that the designation of not one of them could be correctly ascertained in the gallery. SLAVERY. Mr. SPOONER presented a petition from the Anti Slavery Society, signed by the chairman, against the importation of Coolies into the West Indies, an expedient which had been tried in the Mauritius, and altogether failed there. The Hon. Gentleman pre sented another petition from the same Association against the employment of an armed force on the coast of Africa to suppress the slave trade—an object which, in the opinion of the petitioners, could not be effected by means of war. PUBLIC-HOUSES. Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from Durham against the extension of public-houses, and for the restriction of the sale of intoxicating liquors on Sa y , turdy. THE BLEACHING TRADE. NALLACE presented a petition from the bleachers of Lanark, Renfrew, and Stirling, g of the oppressive nature of their occupa ' 4 -' 7 '4 1 40. 113 we understood, praying for legislative re --2'N • • LI. THE SUN, LONDON, WE INESTIA* EVEN - ING, FPI3ReARY 5, 11445. gulations.. The llon. Member gave notic3 that to morrow he would move that the petition be printed with the votes. MEDICAL REFORM BILL. Mr. ESCOTT presented a. petition from the medi cal practitioners of Hampshire against the Bill intro duced by her Majesty's Ministry. TROOPS FOR THE COLONIES. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Reading (as we understood), praying the House not to sanction the embarkation of any troops to those colonies which _were destructive of British constitutions. He (Mr. flume) could not agree to the whole prayer of tho petition. laws which had passed in bygone ages, and had be come obsolete; but these orders were passed annually, and therefore they ought to be drawn up in such a manner as to.give the House the po xer of enforcing them ; ,. He did not intend to submit any motion .on the atbject, but should content himself with having called the attention of the House to it. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not consider that the members of the Government. Were more interested in this question than any other Member of the House. These privileges were the privileges not of the House only, but of the,whole; people of the realm. The right of deciding on the return of Members was vested in that ,House,'and .there was no other legally appointed tribunal for the decision of those quest one. As Members of that House, they had the right of deciding if the persons whose names appeared upon the poll were proper voters or not, and from the earliest times it had been decided that Peers were not admitted to vote for Members of Parliament ; and, although not a lawyer himself, he would venture to say' that it was contrary to the law of the land for any Peer to do so. As regarded the elections of Members of Parliaty ent, anti the decisions upon them, that House was the sole judge ; and he would take it upon himself to sly, that if a Peer should claim the right to vote at an election for a Member of that House, the House had the undoubted right of rejecting the vote. It was the privilege of the frouse to prevent any interference on the part of Peers with the election of its Members ; and for his part he should be very sorry to see any alteration made in the resolution to -which the Hon. Gentleman referred. Ile believed that any altera tion would be an abandonment of the privileges of.the llcuse, and of that control which. it ought to exer cise over the election of its Members. , Mr. 'WILLIAMS said, that as the law now stands a Peer 'goes before the revising barrister, and claims to have hie name inserted in the list of voters. The barrister knows nothing of the sessional order of the House of Commons, and he allows the Peer to be re gistered as an elector. NoW, what he (Mr. W.) wished to ask was whether, as the House had no power to strike the name out of the registry after it had once been inserted, there was any means by which this privilege could be enforced ? The SPEAKER (no answer being given to Mr. Williams question) proceeded ,to read the orders, several of which were agreed to seriatim, when Mr. T.' S. DUNCOMBE said he should take that opportunity of renewing a notice which he had given last session of Parliament, of his intention to move for a Select Committee to inquire whether; in any counties or boroughs empowered under the Reorm Act to send Members to the House of Commons, such Mem• bers were returned through the illegal or unconstitu tional interference of Members in the House of Peers ? Theitight Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exch equer said he should be extremely sorry if any altera tion were made in the standing resolution, thereby implying that nothing would horrify him more than its violation -by any Peer of the realm. Why, the Right Hon. Gentleman must know per fectly well, that there was not a single county Member, and that there w ,e-c. very , few borough Members sitting either behind or before him, who did not previous to their election consult some Peer or other for the purpose of obtaining his influence either requesting him by letter, or almost by supplication on their knees, to concern himself in their- eleetion.—(Laughter.). lie ventured to say that in the case of some of the vacancies which had occurred recently Peers had been consulted and requested . to concern themselves in the elections; and if a Peer had not given his consent to , the individual standing for the borough, which partly belonged to him, 'he ventured to say that they must have been deprived of the' present Secretary for Ireland.—(Latighter.) Yet, the Chancellor of the Exchequer got up in his place, and with• a solemn look, and still more solemn . voice, declared to that .llouse that he should be sorry to see any alteration made in the existing resolution. Ile would test the Right Hon. Gentleman's sincerity. When he moved for the Committee, he would under take to prove, as he had said before, that there were very few Members, either for counties or boroughs, in whose election Peers had not concerned tLemslves. How the Right Hon. Gentleman could maintain his gravity while making such a speech, was to him (Mr. T. Dun combe)' utterly inconceivable. If they put the resolu tion in force, three-fourths of 'the temporal peers, and two-thirds of the bishops must be convicted of an in fringement. of the privileges of the -House of Com mons. What ai mockery, what an insult ' was . it to pass this resolution unless it Were enforced. (Hear, hear.) The time had arrived when it should. be either acted upon or expunged. Ile himself had, on a former occasion, voted for its being expunged. He would much rather, for his own part, that Peers appeared on the hustings, and voted for Mem bers of Parliainent. The tnlre they came in contact with the people, tl,e more would their prejudices be remov,d. They would find the humble mechanic and others, who were now deprived of the right of voting for Members of Parliament, possessing as much ability and more patriotism than themselves ; they would find men who did not wish to obtain, seats in that House for the purpose of acquir ing some dirty star or - garter, for the paltry purpose of obtaining a peerage; or for the idiotic purpose of securing a baronetcy. If this resolution were not expunged—if, after this warning, they still adopted it, they need not be sur prised if he called upon the House to act upon it, and he would in that case promise them that he should move fur a Committee of the- House to inquire into its operation and whether its intentions were carried out at the different elections. Mr. lIIJME, gild he . had frequently appealed to that House upon the same subject, how they could reconcile the spirit of the resolution.with the practice observed at many elections. That was not a mere question, as his Eon. Friend (Mr Duncombe) seemed to think it, for the Minister more thanlor any other: It happened that a Minister frequently sat on these benches, having, perhaps, fifty behind him acting as fuglemen on those occasions. Ile (Mr. Mime) had . again and again, for many years past, warned the House upon the subject ; but to hear common sense appealed to by the Minister was something new, 'and how; he asked, could this resolution •be maintained on that principle. He recollected a number of in stances in which inquiries were instituted before that House, and in which it had been shown that Peers had been known to propose , the Members, and, in fact, of returning them for that House. He agreed with the Hon. MeMber who had last spoken, that it would be better if peers were' to go more among the lower classes—if they were' to 'go to the public hustings, where they would at least learn that which would do them considerable good, namely, the feelings which actuated the lower classes. Ile was quite prepared to vote for the abolition of the resolution. • The gallery was then cleared for a division. None however took place, and the order was agreed to. ADMISSION OF STRANGERS TO THE tion, in fact, had nothing whatever to do the standing orders on the books of the house. The exclusion of strangers did not depend upon the sessional orders. It was a clear right for any Member to call the attention of the Speaker to the fact that. strangers were present, and to revest that they might be ordered to with draw. It was an inherent right of each individual Member, and rested upon the same principle which were o present it was i n nMember observed to the - gave any Hon. - Members the privilege of moving that the House be counted , which was immediately done upon Pe and upon the same. made; c principle, suchmotion t pn h instantthe eta bei a t i m strangersnng to order them to withdraw. It was open to the Right Hon. Baronet to move an amendment to put an end to the latter privilege. Mr. HUME wished to ask whether any new ar rangement had taken place by which the space allotted for the accommodation of strangers had been altered as the space already allotted for their accom modation, was extremely small. The SPEAKER said he had not given any order on the subject. There was great difficulty in making desirable arrangements regarding the admission of strangers. Mr. lIUME. said that, on behalf of the publi., he would. impress upon the House the necessity of snaking arrangements more convenient than the present ones. Those persons who came there to hear the debates were much exposed to cold, and had scarcely any room. The SPEAKER said that every arrangement would be made for the accommodation of the public con sistent with the accommodation of Members of that House. • • The question was then put and agreed to. • PRIVATE COMMITTEES. Mr. WALLACE begged to call the attention of the House; especially of those Members belonging to Committees of Selection, to the waste of time and money which the present arrangements' of private Committees involved. • He mentioned last session, that, in the- instance of- one railway-Bill r the expense had reached the enormous amount of 100,0001. He trusted the present session would not pass without some effectual arrangement being made on the subject. He was far from impeaching the conduct of Mem bers on these Committees, who bestowed the greatest pains and labour in endeavouring to keep them in a seasonable condition ; but they had -it not in their power to do that which they so much desired. Last session he called the attention of the House to two private Bills ; the first was the Monkland Rail way Bill, the second was the Paisley Gas Bill. Although these Bills came before the Committees on March 25th, on July 25th they were yet in the House. Now this was a fact which could not.be contradicted, and he would leave it to the House to say whether it was not its duty to alter such a state of things. He would contend that the House had the power to enabled Private - Committees to guard against such. annoyance. It was not right that. solicitors should have it in their power to send for counsel after counsel, thui entailing .enormous expense ; but while the solicitors had the power, it.would be useless for parties concerned .in private Bills to expect any curtailment of these- expenses. He -felt quite con vinced that it, would be grsatly. for the benefit of those private .companies, if counsel were prohibited altogether from entering Committee-rooms. He did believe that this practice gave a facility to 'parties taking fees, which was not permitted by the House in Committees on public • business, • and which tended' materially to increase* the expenses, and afford. facilities -for delay and procrastination - which could not otherwise .occur. This was a practiee that had brought discredit upon this II , ouse and s hich discredit would go on increasing if some step were not taken •to stop it. The Hon. Member concluded by calling upon such Memcers of •pris vete Committees as were then present,-to say.whether they agreed with him in part or in the whole of what he ha& said, and by moving for a Select Committee to ascertain whether they could not suggest some mea sure by which to prevent.this dillatory mode of pro ceeding with private Bills. Mr. EWART wished to put .a question to her Majesty's Government•reletive to the constitution of Coriimittees of that House upon private Bills. He wished to seethe Members. of Committees on private Bills free from all personal interest in the ques tions which - had to be .submitted to then.. This principle had been recognised with re spect to certain railway Bills; namely, those for competing lines. Ile had a notice of motion on the paper upon this question for to-morrow evening, that the princip!e to which he alluded should he extended to all Committees on private Bills ; but he wished to know whether her -Majesty's Government would re- lieve an individual Member from that responsibility, which he, however, was ready to take upon himself. Sir H. PEEL said he Nas not prepared to make any announcement on the part of the Government which would relieve the Hon. Gentleman from the duty which he had undertaken. It would be very difficult to define what was the direct interest of con stituents in Railway Bills, and it would be almost on, as lie (Si r R. P ee l) impossible to determine what was indi rec t i n t eres t. He hoped the Hon. Gentlema n wou ld wa it unt il ,n iveanopinion came upon th e quest i on now. h w i i s she l d mti gio With respect to the observations of the Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Wallace), he could only say that it wou ld be excessively difficult effectuall y to - control counsel with respect to the length of tl • len. addresses.-- (Laughter.) it would be. also difficult to carry out the lion Gentleman's, other suggestions. He (Sir Robert Peel) believed that, in the course of last session, the sum of 75,000/. was expended , in the prosecntion of a railway Bill, which was ulti mately thrown out. This Bill, he understood, was to be again brought forward, and there w • as every pro bability of its succeeding. Lord HOWICK said he thought there ought to be longer time. given for the presentation of petitions for, railway Bills than for those for-other p r i va t e Bill s. Unless they adopted that course great inconvenience and great it-justice would ensue, in consequence of the adoption of the system of subjecting all railway Bills to a preliminary examination by the Board of Trade.--(Hear, hear.) The House was aware that great decisions on projected railways had already been arrived at; while the decisions on others were yet .unknown. Even with respect to those which- were known, the House and the country and -the persons interes ted in th ose Bills were all left in ignorance of the grounds on which the recommen dations of the Board of Trade were founded. There , fore, it would be unjust to call upon those parties to decide at once whether they would abandon the measures in which they were interested or noti ' If they now fix the time parties interested in these measures would be forced either at once to take the preliminary steps, and to incur great expense in bringing their Bills before the Il ee „, or they would be deprived of the opportunity of submitting such Bills to the fair decision of a Committee. It was not just to call on these parties to take either of these decisions at present—(Herr, hear)—for he believed that if'' they should find that the reports of the Board of Trade were founded upon good and adequate reasons the parties interested would not commit the mistake of incurring a useless expendi ture of money in bringing their Bills forward. But, on the other hand, it might happen that some of these decisions would not prove satisfactory, and parties before they determined to abandon their scheme, had a right to canvass the grounds of the recommendation of the Railway -Department of the Board of Trade.- -(llear, hear.) He urged f his argument on the pre sumption that the Government and the House did not intend that the decisions of that Board should be final.—(Hear, hear.) When lie looked to- the report of the Select Committee of last year he found it distinctly laid down- that tha Board of Trade was not to decide on the merits of Railway Bills but was merely to investigate the representations made, and to report to the House, stating facts and opinions for the information and guidance of Parliament, and for the purpose .of assisting Parliament in coming to its decision. Such had been the decision of the Committee of last year. When the arrangement was recommended to the house -by the Right Hon. Gentleman the late President of the Board of Trade, he did not propose it for the purpose •of increasing the • influence of the Board, but for the purpose of aiding and assisting the judgment. of the House. There was an order of the House, that if any report from the Board of Trade relating to a Railway Bill be laid before the House, such report should be referred to tie Committee on the Bill. It was perfectly clear what was the view of Parliament in agreeing to the arrangement made - last year. He belied the arrange ment-would continue; but he saw s ymptoms in what was going on out of doors that an authority was ascribed to these reports Of the Board of Trade, which would be a tt e nded with great inonvenience, and to which he desired to call the attention of the House. No one was more anxious than he to im prove the system of private legislation, in which he knew great abuses had grown up. He approved of the recommend a ti on o f l as t year , but he thought that the Board o f T ra d e . s hould be„ confined to the preliminary investigation of railway projects, in which they might obtain valuable information for the House, upon measures in which large in terests-,were concerned. But if, instead of being merely advisers to Parliament, this Board was to have an authority i n determining upon Railway • Bills—if their reports were to be couclusive as to what Bills should be adopted, and what. rejected, that would be the creation -of a new . authority which Parliament never contemplated. Was the Hhouse aware what was the amount of the interest involved in these questions between com p etin g lines ? He would gi ve the House one instance, that of the London anti York Railway. In that c om p an y the s hares were 60,000, and these shares had been the subject of dealing on the Stock Exchange. Bafrgain o 2 were made in them at the rate premium on each share, conditioned on the I report of the Board of Traipe—that was to say, that if this report, which wa, ; regarded :as con clusive, should prove favourable to the plan, it would add 201. to the value of each of these 60,000 shares. Thus the deteriniaation arrived at in an internal department of the Government in the absence of all the parties concerned, would effect the transfer of no less a sum than 1,300,000/. from the pockets of one set of persons to those of another, was a judgment involving such sums to Le pro.. nounced, by such a tribunal as the Board of Trade.— (Hear, hear.) . Ile found no fault with the BOard of Trade possessing certain, functions ; but such a tribunal was utterly. urfitted for pronouncing an opinion on subjects involving such enor mous Ennis. He could show them a particular instance in which the sum staked was not less 1,200,0001., and that was only one out of a mul titude of cases; and would it be said that those re• ports were to be conclusive on subjects involving the disposition of millions ? They (the Board of Trade) disposed- of sums compared with which the sums ad judicated upon by the Lord Chancellor and all the Judges of Westminster Hall sunk into insignificance. But was that department constituted in a manner so that they could ,ay it ought to Le intrusted with such enormous responsibility. What did it consist of? There was at its head a nobleman of high character and ability, but who possessed little experience, and there were assisting him four gentlemen scarcely of higher official rank.than chief clerks in the _Public depart ments. One of theoe gentlemen was, he believed, placed in that department from being private - se cretary to the Eight Honourable Gentleman op posite. Was a Board, having to dispose of such encrmous interests, and thus constituted the proper tribunal for the purpose—(Hear, hear). And it was not merely that . the tribunal was improperly coustituted. He said that none of their proceedings were such as to make their decisions, if ..they were to be taken as decisions, in matters of this nature, satisfactory.—(Hear, hear) He happened to be unwillingly forced into connexion with a. railway project, . and being concerned .in the pr 0..., motion of that railway; project, he could speak from experience unto the course adopted. It was this, the promoters of Bills sent in a short statement of the ground on which they p ro p ose d their measure. That was followed by depositing in the Board of Trade plans and sections giving full details of the nature of the scheme. Before -any decision was pronounced on their case, the case of the oppo nents of the Bill were made known. And after they knew that case, the promoters of the measure put forward a rebutting. case. The case of their oppo nents was to be put in before the 30th of November; and the . favourers of the Bill concluded, that before any decision was pro nounced by the department of the Board of Trade, they would be informed of what the case was which- had been sent in by the other side, the allegations of which they would then be prepared to answer. The session of Parliament was coming near : sever.l decisions had been pronounced, and they began to think they would be. pronounced upon after the case of their opponents was known. Accord ingly they applied for an interview with the. Board of lie had to acknowledge this extreme courtesy with which he and the other Members of the de puta'ion were, on very short notice, received by . the Board, They. knew nothing of the plans of their Opponents except from the public newspapers and the plans deposited with the clerk of the peace. They stated very shortly. the reasons why, in their judgment, their own scheme was entitled to preference, and having done so they . retired. Before they did so, however, one of.. the gentlemen who composed the deputation ob served .to the President of the Board of Trade, that he expected that they would have been called upon to answer the case of their oppo nents. The reply of the President of the Board was one of great importance. He said, " That is not our course. There being such a multitude of projects, it would be physically, impossible for us to hear the comments of the _parties upon the opposing plans." No doubt that was perfectly true. It would be 'phy sically impo,sible for tie 13(.ard of Trade to hear all .the arguinents in favour of the conflicting schemes. and precedence to Dr. Croly and Dr. Murray in the Commission, he thought the Noble Earl would have rated him soundly ; he thought that no railroad could carry the No'ale Earl to the House fast enough to state his surprise and indignwion at so extraordinary an inno vation. The Noble Earl had rated him in the noose ino,t soundly for having given Voce and title to the Catholic Bishop of Quebec; and the Noble Lords who supported the present Government foi the most part concurred in censuring him (Lord Normanby) on that occasion. However, he concurred with the Noble Lords opposite in the propriety of placing the Catholic bishops in the Commission, with the acknowledgment of their authority over those dioceses., the limits of which they would have to fix. He had always thought that the dis tinction which prevented the Catholic bishops from as suming their titles was childish and impolitic. As well as he recollected the tenour of the Act of Parliament, they were forbidden to assume any titles not authorised by. law. Now, with respect to the title of Archbishop of Team, what was there to prevent Dr. M‘Hale from assuming that title? There was no Archbishop of 'Tam authorised by law, and therefore Dr. M-Hale's assumption of the title could not interfere with other rights. What reason could there be why Dr. Murray and Dr. Crolly should not be allow el to assume the title of bishops? Another word as to Ireland—as to the passage in the speech, that there wouki shortly be laid Le• fore the House the report of the Tenure of Land Commis sion. Now, there Lordships would recollect that in the course of lest session, he (the Marquis of Normanby) had expressed his regret that so little information had been obtained by the Commission, and that he be lieved it would not effect the object for which it had been appointed. He believed that most exaggerated expectations had been rai ed by it which never could be realised. He did not think that the report would give any. valuable information, but he thought it was most desirable that it should be laid be fl:re the House as speedily as possible, in order to give the Government an opportunity of stating whether they intended to produce any measures on the subject, and what the nature of those measures would be, in order to allay the excitement which prevailed from the erroneous and unfounded expectations to which the Commission had given rise, and which had done, perhaps, more mis chief than the political agitation which prevailed before. He believed that the agitation on this subject would not have arisen but • for the ill-timed appointment of the Commission. Ile was ready to admit that the political agitation had in some degree subsided ; but he believed it would not have arisen to the height which it reached if it had not been for the injudicious appointments made by the Government. lie would not now allude to that subject further than to say that it had been made matter of an attack on him in that House, that the agitation was increased in the time of his government. But he had repeatedly shown from unquestionab!ft documents that the agitation had decreased, and that crime. also had consi derably diminished during his administration. He had also always stated that the present Government was not to be blamed forAhe agitation which prevailed in its time, as that was to be traced to the mismanagement of previous Government§ for ages past. • In resp ec t to other topics, he concurred with the Noble Lords opposite, that every one must feel satisfaction at the gratifying state of manufactures and commerce. But, at the same time, they should not forget that this prosperity was iu the regular ebb and flow of prosperity following adver sity, which they always were accustomed to witness. Let them hope that the periodical return of prosperity would continue longer than usual. But let not the Go vernment claim credit for it, unless they could show that they had prevented the recurrence of depression and distress, -which usually followed upon the period of prosperity and activity. He concurred, also, in the satis faction of the Noble Lords opposite at the good under standing which existed with France and other countries. IVith respect to France, he felt that there was a feeling so sensitive connected with that subject, that he would best promote the good understanding by saying no more than that no one could be more anxious than he was for the maintenance of peace with France and the rest of the world. Perhaps it might be unusual to allude to the personal visits of foreign sovereigns. But he would say that the .:visits of two Sovereigns; so remarkable for their personal characters and . elevated positions, were matters of cordial congratulation.—(Hear.) In recurring. to a notice of the periodical returns of prosperity and adversity, he could not- but take some credit fur the Government of whiCh he had formed a part, in devising the measures which, while they took some time in bringing forth the fruits n'f their results; were not the less sure of doing so,.and, if they had at length been productive of good to Ireland; no one would rejoice more heartily with those who prepared her Ma j„ty's speech than himself, and those friends•on that side of the House with whom he had the honour to act. He rejoiced to perceive that there was a clause in her Majesty's speech, referring to the measure which •was passed last session, for promoting the health of the in habitants of large towns, and he saw that the words which on this subject had been put into her mouth, were in accordance with that deep and intense feeling for the welfare of her subjects, which' all knew to be in perfect unison with that greatnesS and benevolence of character which was one of the_ most ..honourable fea tures of her mind. He rejoiced in this, and sin cerely and earnestly hoped that the measures which might be brought forward , would tend to promote that happiness and health among- the people which were ne cessary to insure that physical power which once dis tinguished the lower orders of this country, and enabled them to achieve their ancient renown, and which toge ther with the moral rectitude by which they had been characterised, constituted their chief greatness. With this hope he most heartily concurred in the recommen dation of the speech, and trusted it would be carried into effect-. The Duke cf RICHMOND was unwilling to intrude on their Lordships' attention, but there was one omit • sion in the address which he felt compelled to notice. The address congratulated their Lordships on the im proved condition of the country, and he would not pre tend to say but that in some respects ther2 was great cause for congratulation, but surely her Majesty's Go vernment would not pretend to say that there was no distress in the agricultural districts of the country ? The Board of Trade was the medium through which any communication froin Government we's received by the manufacturers, but there was no such medium be tween the Government and the agriculturists. He could state from his own knowledge that great dis tress then, existed amidst the agricultural tenantry, and he certainly thought that the speech should have directed that inquiry be instituted upon the subject. He hoped that if the income-tax were continued the agriculturist would be excluded from its operation, for it was a moral impossibility that a tenant with only 1001. a year could stand it.—(Hear.) The farmer at present lost instead of gaining. If they made the inquiries he prayed for, they would find that what he had stated of existing agricultural distress was but too true, not in any isolated spot, but in the different parts of the country.—(Hear, hear.) TheDulie of MONTROSE said that any alteration of the present currency in Scotland would be viewed with the utmost distrust by the commercial men there, and he regretted exceedingly that her Majesty's speech expressed an intention on the part of the Government to interfere with it. - The - same feelings actuated all classes in that country, that any alteration of it would be altoge ther unnecessary, more especially when not a word of complaint had been uttered by any person to the present system, and when great complaints had been expressed to the English banking system. It appeared to him sin-. gularly strange, that Government should i n t er f ere i n that case at 11, when, by so doing, they were assured the advantages then resulting from the system would by any such alteratior. be completely lost. The m erc h ants of Scotland were decidedly opposed to any alteration in the system, and therefore he hoped that any change pro posed would be trivial, and not of great importance. Lord WHARNCLIFFE could not let tke remarks, or, more properly, questions of the Noble Lord who had last spoken, pass unanswered. With respect to the remarks of his Noble Friend who sat in front (the. Duke of Rich mond), who stated that he thought her Majesty's speech, in r, ference to the improvement of the country, should in that consider the state of the agricultural dis tricts. He spoke of the state of the farmers as not being very flourishing. He (Lord Wharncliffe) thought that when the state of the country was referred to, it more particularly meant the condition of Manufactures and commerce. With respect to that part of the Queen's speech that spoke of the banking system in Scotland, it did not say any change in the currency ; and he there fore wished to set the Noble Duke right in that parti cular. He should be sorry if anything should arise to disturb the unanimity which seemed at that time to pre vail in the House, and therefore he would add nothing further on, the subjects referred t o . Lord BROUGHAM did not wish to prolong the de bate, but as several topics in the speech had been adver ted to by the Noble Marquis (Normanby) behind hini, he (Lord Brougham), inasmuch as they were very vaguely mentioeed in tho speech, would also make few remarks upon them. One of these was a very gra tifying one—he meant that of the financial state of the country. No one more rejoiced than himself in the pre sent improved condition of the labouring classes of the country ; and their Lordships might remember that it was but two short years since he had felt it to be his duty to bring before that House the misery and distress which prevailed among the lowest because the largest classes of the country. The contrast which appeared at that time, from the state of thing when he had called their Lordships' attention to the subject, was most gra tifying, and it was the more gratifying that such itn— provement was not confined to one or two branches of the community, but was perfectly general over the excise and customs, those two great indications of the pros .perity of the kingdom.—(Cheers.) Nothing, therefore, could possibly be more gratifying than this improve ment, for by reference to the financial state of the country they would observe that the last year showed a considerable increase over the year preceding, and that again over the one that went before, as did that last over the year 1841, thus exhibiting a fact which could not bat be peculiarly pleasing, satisfactory, and, what was more, trustworthy—trustworthy inasmuch as the im provement was a progressive and not a sudden one.— (Cheers.) He was led to speak of the income-tax, but he must be distinctly understood as not pledging him self in favour of any motion of the Noble Marquis's, whom he had heard for the first time that day with great pleasure. He was a worthy scion of his illustrious line, and none of them could forget the one who sat in that House, and that other whom no subject of these realms ought to name but with a feel ing of admiration for his splendid generosity—a generosity never to be surpassed, scarcely ever to be equalled—(Hear, hear)—but which, he was sorry to say, from the thoughtlessness of mankind, had never properly been made the subject of a nation's gratitude. —(Cheers.) In giling his .concurrence to the address he did not pledge himself to a continuance of the income tax ; for his compliance depended greatly upon the other taxes, whether those might be added or remitted.' 'fill they should see the plans which were intended to be laid down, he thought it would be improper and inexpe dient to say whether the income-tax should be repealed UN EQUAL TAXATION. Mr. HUME also presented a petition from the Provost and Town Council of Montrose, complaining of unjust and unequal taxation in the b9youghoind praying the House to institute an inquiry into the grievance, with the view of getting it removed. CARLISLE, DUMFRIES, AND GLASGOW RAILWAY. Mr. EWART presented a petition in .favour of the Carlisle, Dumfries, and Glasgow Railway. NOTICES OF MOTION.—THE GAME-LAWS. Mr. WAKLEY gave notice that he would wive, upon a future' day, for a return for the years . (632, 1833, and 1834, respectively, of the names, occupa tions, arid ageS of all persons accused, convicted, and punished for breaches of the game-laws ; distinguish ing those who were married from those who were single, and stating, in cases where the punishment was imprisonment, whether the families of the hus band, or 'the father, were supported out of the poor rates. AMERICAN CORN. Mr. MILES gave notice that he would move for returns, stating the amount of American corn imported since the passing of the Act. FOREIGN SUGAR. Mr. F. BARING gave notice of his intention to move for returns of the quantity of foreign sugar im ported into the United Kingdom during the- past year. SCOTCH BANKS. Mr. MACAULAY gave notice that he would ask a question of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to morrow, relative to the law as affecting Scotch banks. RAILWAYS. Mr. WALLACE wished to ask a question of the Government relative to the accommodation of the publie on railways; but having understood that the President of the Board of Trade had resigned his office within the last few days, he did not know to whom to address the question. Perhaps the Chan cellor of the Exchequer would be able to answer the question. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, perhaps the Hon. Member would better obtain the information he required by moving for a specific return on the subject. Mr. WALLACE, seeing the Right Hon. Gentle man the Member for Newcastle in his place, he would put the question to him. He wished to know how many of the railway companies coming within the provisions of the Act of last session had complied with the regulations laid down in the sixth clause, as to having seats and protection from the weather for the conveyance of third-class passengers ; and also how many had failed so to comply ? Mr. W. E. GLADSTONE said that as this ques• tion bad reference to the provisions of the law rela tive to railroads that had passed some months ago, he would endeavour to answer the question. The railway companies which now came within the pro visions of that Act were quite satisfied with the charge of one penny per mile for each passenger ; they had strictly complied with that clause ; the complaints on the part of the passengers were very few, and the different companies had expressed their entire satisfaction with the Act. He need not trouble the House with reciting the names of the companies who had complied with the Act of last session, because they had all complied with it with the exception of one or two. The Board of Trade had required, in all ca'es, seats in third-class carriages, and likewise that effective protection should be supplied ; and the Board of Trade considered that such protection was supplied, as those carriages might be entirely closed when the weather was severe. In every case the companies had complied' with the ie regulations, and the House would be glad to hear that the result of the Act of last session had been to afford increased accommridation to persons of the poorer classes who travelled by rail road. He had only that morning received a memo randum of a report agreed to at a meeting of the Grand Junction Railway Company, from a Director, in which it was said that the writer felt much plea sure in stating, that by the Act of last session the Company, without much injury to their receipts, were able to afford accommodation to 2,600 poor persons who could not otheru lie be accommodated, and who could not afford to pay the price pre. viously charged. lie would mention also that the London and Birmingham Company, during the late quarter, had carried about 48,895 passengers in third-class carriages, at the rate of a penny per mile for each person, being about 193,000 persons in the year more thln the London and Birmingham Railway carried before the law of last session came into operation. In previous years the number of third-class passengers conveyed was 6.5,000, instead of 193,000, showing that the number of passengers had nearly trebled.—(liear, hear.) Mr. WALLACE gave notice that he would avail himself of the suggestion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; and gave notice that he would move to morrow for a return, showing not only what companies had complied with the regulations prescribed by the Act of last year, but also those companies who ftirmed an exception to the rule. SESSION AL ORDERS. Mr. YOUNG having mOved,the order of the day on sessional orders, Mr. E WART rose to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice; but The SPEAKER said that the Hon. Gentleman's motion had reference rather , to the standing orders than to the sessional orders. Mr. MART said he would then bring forward an independent motion on the Subject to-morrow. He did not know whether the Hon. Gentleman, the Member. for Oxford, intended, as a member of one of the Committees of the House, t.) bring forward the subject. If he . did so, he (Mr. Ewart) would co operate with him, but if not, he would feel bound to bring forward the subject in a separate motion to morrow. SCOTCH PRISONS. On the motion for the order of the day for readitg the sessional orders, Mr. lIUME asked the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he was prepared to institute an inoiry into the ope ration of the Scotch Pr6ons Act? Sir J. GRAHAM was understood to say that be should institute such an inquiry. MEDICAL REFORM. Mr. WAKT.W.Ylenindedthe Right Honourable Baronet the Secretary of State that he, last evening, promised to state to-night when he should be able to ask leave of the House to introduce , the Medical Re form Bill. _ _ Sir J. GRAHAM said he intended to bring in the Bill on Tuesday se'nnight. Mr. WAKLEY asked if the Bill would be pre cisely the same as that of last session ? Sir J. GRA lIAM said there would be some amend ments introduced into it, and on moving for leave to bring it in, he should state precisely what those alte rations were SESSIONAL ORDERS. Mr. WILLIAMS said, at this period of the last session he had called the attention of the House to the strange and anomalous state of the sessional orders of the House. One .of them he believed to be in direct contradiction to the law of the land. He was sorry that neither the Attorney-General nor the Solicitor-General were in their places, or he would have put the question to them ; and if he re ceived an assurance that the order was not contrary to the law, he would not press his objection. The order he objected to was this :—" That no Peer of the realm, except such as may be Peers of Ireland fur the time being, who shall not have declined to serve as a Peer of Ireland, hath any right to vote in the election of any Member of Parliament " lie (Mr. Williams) believed this was a point that had been disputed by Peers. Another order was to the effect that "it is a high infringement of the liberties and privileges of the Commons of the United Kingdom, for any Peer or Prelate, not being a Peer of Ireland, to interfere himself embeenrforoefedP, would be arliament." in 'These most a s n a y i orders,ut aelectionry ; if b u they l e f % y o , er a rceou theyl could be' not violated daily ? It was well known that a large portion of the Members of that House were returned by Peers of the realm, in direct violation of those standing orders. He should like to know if a case were distinctly proved against a Peer o f a violation of that sessional order, how it could be enforced ? What power—what means had they of enforcing it ? None. No Hon. Gentleman would venture to say that they had any power of enforcing it. What use was it, then, for the House to main tain orders of this showy sort, declaring their independence of Peers, which every man in the country knew did not exist. Let them deal honestly and plainly with the country, and admit the existence of that which they had not the power to avoid. Let them place Peers in the same position as other indi viduals, so as to be enabled to proseeute them when they violated the law of the land", by commit ting bribery. Ile had drawn the, attention of the llouse to this subject last „session, and he hoped her Majesty's Government would take this question into their consideration, and make sesional orders mole in accordance with the real position of the llouse. It was not creditable to them to continue these orders. They were not like those HOUSE. Mr. CHRISTiE said he believed he was at liberty to state-that the amendment he was about to propose was sanctioned by the Speaker. When. he moved a similar amendment last session his proposed alteration was resisted by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, because from its wording it had reference to other parts of the House than the body. His present amend ment, however, had been drawn up in strict accordance with the views of the Hon. Baronet opposite, and it fully met with the concurrence, as he had previously stated, of the Speaker. Under these circumstances it would be unnecessary for him to trouble the House, and he w ould simply move the following amendment: " That the Sergeant-at-Arms attending this House do, from time to time, take into his custody any stranger whom he may see, or who may be re ported to him to be, in any part of the House or gal lery appropriated to the Members of this House, ar.d also any stranger who, having been admitted into any other part of the House or gallery, shall mis conduct himself, or shall not withdraw when strangers are directed to withdraw, while the House, or any Committee of the whole House, is sitting, and that no person so taken into custody be discharged out of custody without the special order of the House. That no Member of this House do presume to bring any stranger into any part of the House or gallery appropriated to the Members of this House, while the House, or a Committee of the whole House, is sitting. That the above resolutions be standing' orders." Dr. BOWRING seconded the amendment. u . sh \ o 'k u rl ld LL n l o A t A b l e S a I c l o o v e d d s t e o e e n n t o e r r t e h a a s t o o •s u v h s e y . stra A t i l r g . er ß s He fully admitted the necessity for order and quietude, but at the same time he thought it was unjust not to allow strangers to be present at debates. Lord J. RUSSELL interrupted the Hon. Member, and pointed out to him that the amendment did not exclude strangers. Mr. WILLIAMS, after reading the amendment, continued.—The fact was, he had made a slight mil tr.kQ.—(A laugh.) He had been so much engaged that day that he had had no opportunity until then of reading the motion paper.—(Laughter.) He would, therefore, not trouble the House further. • Sir IL 11. INGLIS wished to put a question to the Speaker, bearing upon the exclusion of strangers. hitherto it had only been necessary for an Hon. Member to observe that strangers were present, and the Speaker immediately requested their withdrawal without the question being put, as in other instances, to the vote of the House. Now he wished to be informed whether, looking at the construction of one of the sessional orders, it was not necessary that the question should be decided by a majority, and not absolutely by an individual Member. Ought not a debate and a division to take place on the question ? The SPEAKER said that he had previously inti. mated to the Right Hon. Baronet that he could have no objection to an amendment to meet the views of the Right Honourable Baronet. But the ques- SUMMARY. Lord HOW ICK concluded by suggesting that the time allowed for bringing in Railway Bills should be twenty-one days after the report of the Board of Trade shoal be printed. Sir R. PEEL agreed with the Noble Lord that some delay ought to take place with regard to rail way Bills, and proposed that the discussion should be adjourned in order to consider the subject. [LEFT SITTING.] DUCHY OF LANCASTER, FEB. 3, 1845. The Queen has been this day Pleased . to appoint Puthey Dawson, of llornby castle, Esq., to be Sheriff of the county palatine of Lancaster for the year tnsuing. tEII.ALL, FED. 4. The Queen has been pleased to constitute and appoint the Right Hon. Sidney Herbert to be her Majesty's Secretary at War. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 4. THE ADDRESS. The Marquis of NORMANBY said if, before he had heard the spetchts of the two Noble Lords opposite, he had not intended to address many observations to the House, nothing- that had fallen from them had induced . him to alter his intention. The Noble Lord must be aware that there was a clan-like affection and loyalty, which made them-receive the address of her Majesty in a spirit different from that , which might be applied to the measures of the Ministry. He would not have thus early troubled their .Lordships with any remarks, but that in her Majesty's speech there were one or two allusions to subjects to which he had himself called their Lordships' attention during . the last session of Parliament. It seemed now to be conven tional, that upon occasions like the present, the address should be considered as a matter of form, and it would hardly become anybody to protest against any part of it, even though they did not acquiesce in the construe tion put upon it by the Noble Lords who recommended it for her Al*jesty'S adoption. He thought it would be well to adopt a practice which prevailed in other coun tries, and which was an improvement, he thought, upon our own—of having some short interval before they were called upon to pronounce an opinion upon the many topics which were contained in the address. Such, how ever, was not the custom here. It must not be consi dered that in agreeing to the address that they were thereby pledged to support fully those measures which might subsequently be brought forward. There were two topics in the address upon which he wished to make a few observations. The first was, that which related to the state of Ireland. Ho , alluded to this subject be cause,'during the last session, he had announced to their Lordships that it was his intention to make a motion on the general state of that country. It was not, however, his intention now to do so, as he was content for the present to turn the responsibility of that state upon Noble Lords opposite, until they had before them those measures which were so vaguely shadowed forth, and which, perhaps, might be followed up by larger measures in the same direction. He did not intend to call the attention of their Lordships to the state of Ireland, because he was in hopes that some mea sures would be proposed to which he could give his assent. At the same time he could not agree in the widest interpretation which had been put on that sen tence. of the speech which alluded to the gradual abate ment of agitation and excitement. He did not think that the existing tranquillity was- so secured as h a d been anticipated. Still he hoped that the particular direction which had been given to the agitation in Ire land, had somewhat checked the feeling on the part of the Irish people, as to the practicability of the measure which had been recommended to them—he meant repeal. But they might depend upon it that until they adopted something more comprehensive than that which had been shadowed forth in the address, they would never secure the affections of that people, and they might never look for any permanent or well founded tranquillity. He bo lieved that the mrasures, so far as they went, which were to be proposed by the Government were likely to have his support. If those measures should be incon sistent with the course which had been taken on that occasion by Noble Lords opposite, it was not for his Noble Friends around him, or for himself, to complain upon that score. That was a queStion which history would record, and posterity decide. At the same time he could not avoid making this a subject of 1-elec tion, when he considered the slight success that had hitherto attended the attempts of Noble Lords opposite to conciliate the people of Ireland. They need not go farther... back than two years, since when the Minister of the Crown, charged with the particular con. duct of Irish affairs, was reported to have said, that con cession had reached its utmost limits, .and could, there fore, go no farther. When such was the case, the people of Ireland felt that they had no claim on the Legislature, and, therefore, it could not be wondered at that. such small success had hitherto attended the efforts of Noble Lords opposite. The Bill more particularly . alluded to in the speech from the throne; was one to vvhieh he had himself given his most cordial support in the last session of Parliament—he meant the most important part of it— that which established a more efficient and impartial board fur the distribution and management of charities generally. He gave Noble Lords opposite credit for the best intentions with respect to . persons professing the Roman Catholic religion. But he regretted-that some thing had not been done to conciliate the Roman Catho. lic Prelates in Ireland ; but he was happy to say th a t h e gathered from a statement made by Archbishop Murray that an amendment was likely to take place in that re. spuct. Her Majesty stated that that Act had been car ried out in the spirit in which it was passed. He gave Noble Lords opposite great credit for having done so, and it was not, perhaps, for him to consider the ap pointments which had been made •to the Commission, or to declare their inconsistency with the cause in the Emancipation :Act, which prohibited Roman Catho lic Prelates from assuming the titles of their dioceses. When he considered that the religion over which these prelates presided was that .of the majority of the people of Ireland, he, for one, could not object to giving them precedence in the ComMissiom But if he had proposed to do so in the presence of a Noble Earl, who was not then in the House, the Earl of Donotosh more, if he (Lord . Normanby) had proposed to give place ------ -- -- -- ---- or not. He said this, putting liTs own prejudices out of sight ; for he thought, in truth, that to t:,at tax there could be urged the most valid objections.— (Bear, bear.) But that was not the ground on e hich it mast be con sidered. If it could be shown that another tax prts'e d more heavily upon the industrious classes, fettering and stunting y— the commerce of the countra bad manu iae turing tax, if he might say so—a tax which pressed upon the raw material of manufactures ; and if, by giving up this latter tax, they gave a spring to home manufactures, to the materials consumed by the low and middle classes of society, then did he say they might with propliety give to the retention of the income-tax a favourable h. tiring. He had listened with the utmost attention to one part of her Majesty's speech—that part of it, he meant, which had treated of increased academical instruc tion for the country ; but as that subject would be, at a future time, discussed by their Lordships in detail, he wou ld n..t do more than thus briefly notice it. With respect to the congratulation which the Noble Marquis called for on the improved condition oflreland as regarded its freedom Irons agitation and from internal disturbances, he (Lord 13.) without having any desire to remark upon this topic: d° because it ought by every means to be avoided, col not et the same time avoid (in order that h is Bi e l c. : might not be wrongly construed) saying that o opinion that improved state of the country was conse (went upon the Stateprosecutions—(Hear , prosecutions—(Hear , he would be quite ready to prove so, should the matter,f in an after day, come on for discussion. One part 0 the speech referred to the visits p a id us by foreig n se"' reigns, and he believed that those visits had given uni versal satisfaction. If he (Lord B.) were allowed, lie should congratulate her Majesty and their Lordships 9rei the last visit of a foreign monarch, and he would tf!ki that opportunity of saying that the fsct of that vi,it.t.aus created a friendly feeling, not col fined to the graciohu Queen who received him, to the brilliant Court the which they were surrounded, but extending a cross h s e Channel, and into the heart of the French dominion : Prejudices the most inveterate were by that visit over come, and this advant a ge had been attained without al sacrifice of principle, without any concession, without loss of interest or of honour. Without any concessi"' lie said, either on one side or the other —without_ 11_1,1Y_ alliance being entered into between themselves and the French—without even the shadow of an alliance. must was the footing on which these two great POWS .onied continue to act in relation to each other f they s , u' d seneaktopr peace eserve of peace between w ebe tossr•ld. een themselves unbroken► aft grd the " Non ego, nec Teucris Italos parereitihe°, Nec niihi regna pet o: paribus se legibus ambse . wouildvircetsefergetiolatensowthteernrpaairnt,frceedlaetrainuagittant." He policy, and here he could not help ereisl that persons could be found to say that the monopolies.comme greatness of England depended upon her even Why, commerce was absolutely inconsistent With ferren t feeltoingouarseteoAnrceinati the slightest monopoly. In conclusion, the moSt __ , i iee prayer to which he could either there or else Qu id utterance was that a continued good feeling Bh , u 7 on g, be between the English and, French nations, tu' most be trusted, would the present amicable. relation s l tween them.—(Cheers.) Lord HARDWICKE regretted that the the President of the Council, had not give° n the definite answer to the Noble Dukes who sat e nr ct had cross benches (Richmond and Montrose). Th shout the touched a chord that would reverberate thro class.• known as agricultural labourers, country ; and from the state of feeling o ` hat ` bell .. pen fie an d in I , ‘ „, of the position held by the Noble Du ke an swer ference to themselves, he felt sorry that the w e re N'oablfeulgoli itra, had not been more full and decided. Sub j e ct, he called on to give his opinion on the . e bould t aka he should say that a motion on the speece 3 . o f tho place in reference to that question—the questleo, ~,. Os distress alleged to exist among that numeroufs latrones..if impression was, that the egriculturist, if le earl by th e not interfered with by legislative enactments, e_ iiar doe panderers of the press, who ministered to a Pec?_ ooo to —a class fond of agitation, for reasons best K" „i c ultUr ia themselves—if thus left alone, he said the i a 4 eto ph. --- interests of the country would eventually g bst dusts (Hear, hear.) It should be remembered bt class would that the depression which affected the one mate r ests l ir in a similar manner aff e ct all the others , for the .. s i t, y fee were so closely connected, that they Mu st of nee° a common evil. , never is The Earl of MALMESBURY said be he° e d as is his life seen the agricultural inter est so dere:. 4 in her was at the present moment, and he regretted. tv*_ f es Majesty's Speech there had been no expressionden, for pathy with that interest. Was there no pee ( ' e t here , such an expression ? He apprehended that not hee" and therefore he could not see why it bad i e in ad The Marqu h p is of LANSDOWNE said that , I .4ose a his full assent to the address which had hee ded ta haYe to their Lordships, he had certainly not inte topic in her addressed them upon it, but there was one f e w r e ; Majesty's speech upon which he would offer.i_..ds bog marks, and upon which several other Noble lat(e)100esoel already addressed the House. He now re s , e fallen froth their Lordships in consequence of what hat' , 103 ) ! his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Breng',, n i s ce 'A regard to the late proceedings which had take."„seuke Ireland. His Noble and Learned Friend Ital i e o f ti i : e itnoatthseesseiiorneumofstarnacrefiatnethantt,dounrteosf the wb ° „ e to t:, deferenic:oso troth' pending judgment of that House relating te., h t he ea u , a and having connected that observation w' as affO rtl i e , tional observation that now an opportunitY vrroceedi:oi':. andfoe considering the thine which spirit otfheytboisiteld P bes si if :t es t ducted, he (the Marquis of Lansdowne otestb' : of f t fair was anxious to take the first opportunitY 1 for the g that if the first opportunity was not take' fio sieg " h o e . pose of instituting such an inquiry, or p i r r o to rdsh' i ,P o _ adoption of any vote on that subject in the the ePP to House, it might not be considered to involv.ee wis hed , n, bation of those proceedings. All that f e f o r 0,0„i , claim on behalf of that forbearance, which i r , so d°. l l ° tended to exercise on the subject was, t": 1 at the ta t he might not be supposed to have apPro v o d e in w d i t l or upon reflection, to approve now of the In ites tion se those trials were conducted. But in wh a . a -e-t W u - he find himself ? and in what situation digt t e nf,„ o . s . th . a u , find itself ? That at the close of those ghatproeuiTeis!or House had, by a solemn judgment set asid e opin ion ' itc h e s of the courts of law of Ireland. Whatever Hou se, 0 0 that judgment had been pronounced in t,lia..t.hich th„ . ' e might entertain with respect to the mode in " . . a d in 11 4 proceedings were carried on in that count's'content' courts of that country, he certainly, for one , :o, far ha t with that judgment, and he was _teen of ! 3 ' s , was concerned, not to revert to the consiqorn estee!,, subject, and to avoid as much as possibl t_n: ine d eitt,'T' t tin of those topies,,which could not be est e a se. in that House or 'elsewhere, without exe!“ e j oi t o. lis.; which he would be sorry to see excited gs" ) ,, iein ic, `,.; he would say on the subject, that without Prt o ffer e he to to nt offer now what be would not have presu , _ iudg 04 n eht n be the ' sc ; the time, any opinion as to the merits of tt . i: ~ o „ in io .. which that llouse, after hearing of Noble and Learned Lords, mu culated than he was to judge on _ as tha t . ject had pronounced—all he would saY t he d id 11 0 whatever were the merits of that judgm e i n h had led t°o sider it to be one of the circumstances wh'e, tie mo re , at better state of feeling in Ireland among " : „i on of that better state of feeling in Ireland ong thc tional persons who composed the pt.i blic n o t P„„i a ting o ` so country. He thought it impossible, in co h. enie t e h tha- ,; the care and caution and forbearance with w iof Ireien':ieee had endeavoured to secure to the P e"l %lahl e P„,,rittll4ll - perfect enjoyment of that most inv.__ with.— f . ' t ee of the British cohstitution—trial by jell icnognsttihtuattiothneoyfhtandebueenniteidnteibntgdedotino that abrdavvenhtielilleoh°f:c;:re; and attention to their rights and privileges, , su i c i T il e, der no Government and no constitutTnit;:d b at a t have obtained to a greater degree. lie . b _ e in i n the ~ion that moment, in that respect, he could to __ dispo st. , , e , guage of the address, that whatever unh 3' % P io e'er class A t h.io.her dos tri might prevail among the misguided :that Counted better in Ireland, there prevailed among tliine 1 _ he attr'.he better tone of feeling than had existed for a long time past, and this circumetainm:e diligeliOet.c%o in a great part to the operation of t ,_., tha t 11._a u f care, and the respect which was shown of pe op t.re for the feelings and constitutional rightsant 1 ' i obst ae ' e' that that country. He did hope, now that i n teres t '' hie removed with respect to political P Pose 11110, the proceeding which had been Pr P be e), ''' 0 , he I , ' .ho Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Cell o w oss P o able and constitutional lawyer as d v i „ t • e ct fin (.1 la euliarly suited to take up that sub.) t _ ropo se an d hoped would again propose what he had F th ve so !;teat, 6,11 year, and which was objected to merely o ti n ni t e ll , e s g ie r . ° , ll 4 : of its effect on the proceedings at Act, the effect of which would be to rearntoo, in:Iloilo), stigma from the law of England, as th at r the endurance of a part of that sentence, I" d a person convicted, before that convict.o::::_sticohuulnPertgl:ooo. tted 3 , 1 , 0 ,1 his completion w as s of that judgment ius ti°e , he dw:tialsdhneeorat . a - d 0 i coun tr Y' t ied the administration of the law of any ot . _..., Le er e „, he could not beli...ve, that if his Noble h :e"buject, th ei l i t Friend could be induced to take up t Lordships would give a ready of Ireland only, but in behalf of E i tessentee to wa s subjects. Before he left the subjlatletiof was no part *if the address which . Ire lall i cl e's with on mea t vt I tak e greater cordiality than the intim,asti o to _ au . G e v ol er t n ending as ca tbio assent, i n ontd tonntdheittileisrhe now the intention of her Majesty_ up the subject at an early period, or 1 s orrow b ' p f o re. timid education in that country, extension would be a real one ; the on taken 0 - ' 0 not been d e ducato ' to express was, that it had .e __,, ea d e steal He believed that to the absenoe of that f a yielOU S e ) c i t ha and he might add, to the existence to° be attribute f that of education in that countrY, wereocial condition S id n ot and he trusted tic , t e had many evils which existed in the t the a ddress w ould country. Upon those topics o . ~. _ dojo, Ileutter think it necessary to trouble their , IsAr ha d b e en ta - nce o f only say that Hot one word regard the isepor i riy t he by his Noble Friend, with I" more Par tici' h a he gil d maintaining the peace of Europe , ~0 in whie or i e nd and Fran; g sis N o ble e el peace between this country s hoe-- that it would be lamentable indeed , , e late ly not cordially concur. He agreed if that peacebreught into question. But what he nia la, th at frertl reis eil be compromised for such interests...ais tn la o m s ent was , i t i l i l e l i t wor con vo k o f it was notorious to all the causes, those interests eery, htlicussen, thud nbeethne and this country had been pleee" . ° _ reading of bo th warfare. He thought that this was w Governl nenta tee her which ought to be studied by the he did of co u ld ," not countries, because acquitting as s ure they /st ; ) , t bout , Majesty's Government, for he was or w- an d ked r Franc e ' Id enter into any such hostility erntnent 0. - ha w oo-- motive, acquitting also the Gov acquitting for 5... ,....th05Q not only acquitting them, but aceo other _t. any not, unless he did so, be doing je , in Franc° of who were considered their oppone n ' u nprovo to wa r ' he sn' a" intention of plunging this country into w what wtts foi call on their Lordships to consider, th_a lculate d _antte of and insignificant in itself, and net.ea, °lit for the 0 s o he en ta lowed up by great consequences, nee involve t he 111 gradually magnified as ultimately to explicit explanation in the first instance • 'crest AY • -