The Sun. — London, England, 1839-08-02 00:00:00

EVPNING EDITION. that he owed his present eminence in the legislature to the poorer people, whom ho was now endelsouring to deprive of every comfort and protection.—( Cheers.) Having given a slap at that Lordling he would mention, but he had seen in the columns of the Conservative papers able articles in aid of the Beer-sellers, and he had known Members of Parliament. professing Conservative priheiples, being the friends of Beer-s,llers.—( Hear.) Therfore this was not a political question—all parties bad been with them, an d a ll parties had been against them, but for the future he hoped they would keep a steady eye to this question.—( Cheers.) Those who were not for them Were against them ; and let them tell certain gentlemen when they came to solicit their votes, that they were ten pounders.—( Great cheering.) He had stated the hosti lity to their cause did not assume a pnlitical character. Now h e h e l d in his band a precious document signed by five of the Odiham Map istrates, amonro the signatures to which was that of Charles Shaw Lefevrc, commanding that the beer -shops should be closed, in the summer months, at 9, in the winter months at 8, and on Sundays, fast days, and thanksgiving days, at seven o'clock. ---( Hear.) There were the Magistrates of Hampshire I but that would not be submitted to.--( Hear, hear.) The Government was a little awed by popular feeling. In days of darkness, when the curfew was heard, people had to put out their fires and candles, but that law was suitable to the day, and did not operate unequally ; but now they found the Speaker of the House of Commons could sit down at nine o'clock in the evening to dinner, while the elodpoles in the country were obliged to go to bed with their old women at eight o'clock.—( Laughter and cheers.) They heard a great deal of talk about the poor man taking home a pint of beer to drink with his wife, but ho should like to see certain Noble Lords do that.—( Hear, hear.) He should like to see the Marquis of Westmeath sit down and take his pint of porter with his wife.—( Great laughter, ) What was sauce for the goose was sauce for the gander— (Hear, hear, hear)—and let there not be one law for the rich and another for the poor. (Cheers.) The Beer, sellers asked for no privilege, they asked for no favour, but only wished for that protection which the Li censed Victuallers had.--( Loud cheers.) . He was much obliged for:the attention with which be had been listened to, and sincerely thanked them far the kind and flattering manner in which they had been pleased to think his health. —(The worthy Chairman resumed his seat amidst loud and long continued cheering.) The CHAIRMAN shortly afterwards rose, and proposed , Th ` The health of their eb:e and efficient Secretary, Mr. " ish op."—( Cheers.) That to a st w ou ld s t an d on i ts own merits. He (the Chairman) considered the open beer tr ade owed i ts ex i stence to the i r Society, and that Mr. Bishop had been the nursing father of that Institution.— (Cheers, ) Mr. BISHOP returned thanks, and explained the cir cumstances under which the Chancellor of the Exchequer h ad ri withd rawn the Beer Bill from the House of Commons. ne and Mr. Hibbold of Somer'a-town had waited on the Chancellor of the Exchequer by desire. They were informed t hat N , as the Bill h a d or i g i nated w i th Mr. Paking ton, i t was r. Pakington's wish it should be withdrawn. He (Mr. B.) ' , is led to b elieve that that step was inevitable, and be was Told that if he opposed the withdrawal of the Bill he must Therefore t the consequen ces b e t h e y w h a t th e y mi g ht. , for the sake of the Beer-sellers he (Mr. B.) cons ented to what h e could not control, as be bad told the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he did so with the greatest pain, because the trade was kept in that stat to e a uncertainty that no man, if he wished (Hquit his house to morrow, knew what it was worth.— , hesr.) Two or three years ago, when forming this Society, he bad prophesied that they were planting an o ac X l l which h e b e li eve d wou ld b y an d b ye grow to a 1 4rge ` y e t th„ Although th e y had n o t as y e t a great oa k, , '''Y nad a tree that promised to be co m e °Ue, and be believed that it would soon attain that height, that (i no man would be bold enough to attempt to cut it ° We. in conclusion, he wished them all success. _ Mr. S EFTON bore testimony to the efficiency and ability of the services of Mr. Bishop. re "r. BISHO P thought there was a toast which would be responded to with t h e most li vely expressions of gratitude meant the P u bli c P ress.—( L oud cheers.) Had the e the press not taken up th e i r cause , an d put public fairly i n possess i on of every information tpo subject, its progress would have been greatly re heect if not a lt oget h er d e f eate d .—( H ear, bear, ". T he ) Pap ers of all politics had taken it up. Tiuses, that glorious l um i nary , Th e S un, th e Tv, forn,ing Chronicle, and the W ee kl y Ch ron i c l e—t h e filly 'True Sun, and the Charter. All had taken it up and said that the cause of the beer-seller was the cause of the p u b l i c, and bad shown that any injury inflicted on the b eer -seller was felt by society at large. He would, the refore_ giv e " Th e P ublic Press. " — ( Cheers.) The toast having been drunk with great enthusiasm the com pany withdre w to j o i n t h e ladies in the ball-room, and dancing was kept up to a late hour. COURT CIRCULAR. ----..,.---..- er Majesty rode out on horseback yesterday afternoon, at tended by the Hon. Miss Murray, Baroness Lehzen, Miss Quentin, Viscount Torrington, Colonel Buckley, Lord Gardner, Mr. Rich, and Sir Frederick Stovin. Viscount Melbourne had an audience yesterday of the Queen. Her Majesty, accompanied by her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, honoured the Italian Opera House with her presence last evening. The Royal suite included the Marchioness of Normanby, Lady Charlotte Dundas, Hon. Miss Murray, Hon. Miss Paget, Viscount Torrington, Mr. Rich, and Colonel Buckley. Colonel B uc kl ey h as re li eved the Hon. . Colonel Cavendish in the duty of Equerry-in-Waiting on her Majesty. Princess Majesty the Queen Dowager, accompanied by the fu.ncess of Hohenlohe, paid a visit yesterday morning to the " elle.. of Bragiaz4. at Alivart's liotel and took leave of her Imperial AThresty, previous to - her departure from town. Her Majesty, the Queen Dowager, also visited the Duchess of Glou cester, at Gloucester House, yesterday morning. The Queen Dowager, aceompanied by the Princess Hohen lobe, drove yesterday afternoon to Sior. House. The Duchess of Gloucester left town yesterday for her resi dence at Bagshot Park. The Duke of Sussex honoured Lord Holland with his com pany at dinner on Wednesday, at Holland House, Kensington. The company to meet his Royal Highness were Viscount Dun cannon, Lord Dinorben, Lord Saye and Sete, Lord Mostyn, Lord and Lady Marcus Hill, Mr. Daniel Webster, of the Senate of the United States, Lady Cecilia Underwood, Lady Charlotte Guest, Sir Charles Metcalf, Colonel and Lady Mary Fox. M. Dedel, Netherlands Minister, arrived yesterday morning at Mina's Hotel from the Hague, after an absence of three months. 1 A Cabinet Council was held yesterday afternoon at the °facial residence of Viscount Melbourne, in Downing-street, Mlt was attended by Viscount Melbourne, the Lord Chancellor. arquis o f L ans d owne, Vi scount Duncannon, Lord John Rus. I , Marqui s o f N orman b y, t h e Chancellor of the Exchequer; f tali of MiNto, Sir Joh n H o bh ouse, L ord Holland, Mr. Ponleti 1 J i!lorttson, Viscount Howick, and Lord Morpeth. The Coun en sat two hours. " i 3 -AN K OF IRELAND CHARTER.—On Monday a meeting was held at Radley's Hotel for the purpose of ° posin g the renewal of the Bank Charter, Martin Burke, f ig, was called to the chair. Mr. Mooney proposed the -odowi h ng resol u ti on .—" T hat i t appears to this meeting that te assertions of the Chan ce ll or o f t h e E xc h equer, on the late debate on the Bank of Ireland Charter, are unsup- Ported by facts; and that we consider his opposition to a free trade in banking, such hS has made Scotland so :inourishing a nation, is inconsistent with the general proles " of Lib era l pr i nc i ples professed by the present Adminis tration, and that an Address, founded on this resolution he Presented immediatly to our gracious Queen." Mr. Patrick Connor seconded the resolution, which was carried unani 11"1144'..—Dubtin Evening Post. I'IEETING OF THE CHARTISTS AT NEWCAS- Yrd' ' 4 ND THE MILITARY CALLED OUT.—We have just been inee.rmuesdleay a ni p g e h r t s , on who left Newcastle about nine o'clock en that about eight the Chartistshad held 4 te.7 numerous meeting in that town, and several inflam matory speeches having been addressed to the multitude, the mayor deemed it his duty to ride amongst them, ac ticompanied by some other of the Newcastle Magistrates. e strongly urged the folly and danger of their pro eedings, ordered them to disperse, and waited a little to Witness the result. The Chartists, however, treated his atuity lightly, and would not obey his order. This being., the ease, the Mayor and Magistrates consulted toge ler, and oedered out the police, and also the mili tary ; an d Its our informant left th e town, he met the soldiers entering w ith all possible dis no t Yet h ear d .-- Yor p k atch. What was the resu l t we h ave Courant. THE WESLEYAN CONFERENCE.—F O r more Lathan a week th e C ommittees have been meeting, for the a uction of th e b us i ness previous to the assembling of he Wesleyan Conference. Yesterday morning a number (w gentlemen belonging to the Wesleyan Society, and con beeted with nautical affairs, met to arrange the business e;!!'neCted with the departure of the Polynesian Wesleyan missionary ship, which is intended to proceed to the South Seas in the course of a few weeks, by which oppor tunity a considerable addition is to be made to the number 'sf missionaries now employed in those regions which the vessel will visit on her voyage out. The most ardent ex pressions of attachment to the cause of missions, and the p g r e o n t . of augmented liberality, were given by some of the preseiat, and it is hoped that the feelings thus expressed will becomtebrneral throughout the country, to the advancement o f tieleause of humanity and religion in the distant regions of earth. It will encourage the friends of the missions, to t h atea the f members of society, or connunicants underrthen t re . o three hundred and forty-one missionaries in foreiLesntations, are two thousand seven hundred and ya-seven, being an seventy increase of five thousand nine hundred nineteen. p r oportionate increase has taken place in the schools of the Society. It is proposed, we Understund, that thirty-s:x ki ssionaries, or more, are to be sent out to strengthen the missions already formed, or to commence new statio ns , as sci on as they can be prepared for their respective.eppoint rnen. • . 3 . It is supposed that about twenty-two of these will Il ea in the missionary ship. Yesterday morning th e an_ Meeting of the Wesleyan Conference took place. l'he Rev. Theophilue Lessey was chosen the President, 5 " the Rev. Robert Newton the Secretary. Nearly 500 ministers were present. Gib were the Animal ' s ' Friend Society's offi cer i vv "t , Week charged Charles Ray, Benjamin Bannister. Ch;, l l i a m Simmons, and William Evans, before Mr. th a i' L 'ain, with cruelty to asses at Southend. It was shown be - nn . t 7 Poor animals were in a dreadful state, their bodies cati on of of holes, and bleeding, from the constant apple rid on of the spurs and pointed goads of the drivers, who the rist sand continually work their heels and sacks into Bradley, edes the overworke d little animals. The Rev. Mr. adleY. however, came forward in defence of the delin quents, and er uelty was produced a lady of his family who said no used when she was in the chaise stopped by Qibb it's ; but Mr. Chisharn prevented her being cross quest' A woreasprutors,,,,boaird.din Rgudp" there was no law to prevent the use ,s , Purs and dismissed his own heel, and saying, " See, I dents r myself ! 1 . will be stopping me ._uppose you . Rent the cases ; upon which the defen ,i t.,_ out of rt, exultingly exclaiming, "We le , ee ever sp urs I', Simmons was, however, brought up a ee.w Bever after,..a.nd fined ss. and costs by the same Magis --a fidet these similar offence, since which the drivers have set 4,Ri. purs. At Bristol, also, the Society brought I 1 sever a l cum !HOW HOLLAND WAS FORMED. The manner in which the country has been rendered habitable to human beings, is one of the most surprising facts in physical geography. The whole of the terri tory, from the Texel to the north, to pretty nearly Ca lais on the south, comprehending a large part of Holland and Belgium, and part of France, is in almost all parts perfectly level, and if it had not been indebted to art, would have been a general marsh, or included within the influence of the sea. On looking at this extensive terri tory, and then proceeding inland to the higher regions of Germany, the conclusion naturally arises, that the whole of the low countries are simply an alluvial deposit, washed from the alpine regions of the interior. The land every where, on being dug is sand or clay. You may travel hun dreds of miles and never see a stone. At this hour land is forming on the coast of Holland, and by a very obvious process. The waters of the Rhine, in all its branches, are very muddy, or loaded with particles of clay and sand, washed from the upper country, and these arc carried out to sea, where they are sinking to the bot tom, and forming sand banks. At the mouth of the Maese, long sandy beaches, produced in this manner, are seen at certain states of the tide. Already they exhibit tufts of herbage, and are resorted to by flocks of sea birds ; and there can be no doubt, that, by a sery little trouble, many square miles of new land might at present be added to the coast of Holland. The exact process by which the low countries have been saved from the sea, has never yet beon fully detailed. Nature having in the first instance produced an alluvial marsh, a certain degree of art has been employed to raise barriers to prevent the influx of the sea ; and this point being se cured ; the next step has been to drain the land, piece meal, by pumping, the water being raised so as to flow off by channels into the sea at low tide. Much stress is usually laid by writers on the prodigious trouble taken by the Netherlands to keep out the sea, by meant of artificial bulwarks along the coast. But on this point there is some exaggeration, and one very material circumstance is entirely omitted to be noticed. It is only at certain places that great exertions are made, by means of artificial dykes, to keep out the sea. Nature, as if anxious to save the counts) from tidal iaundation, has for centuries been energeti cally working to increase the magnitude of the mounds on the coast. At low water, when the bare beach is ex posed to the action of the winds from the German Ocean, clouds of sand are raised into the air, and showered down upon the country for at least a mile inland ; this is constantly going on, and the result is, that along the whole line, from Haarlem to about Dun kirk or Calais, the coast consists of sandy mounds or downs, of great breadth, partially covered with grass and heath, but unfit for pasturage or any other purpose. In some places those downs look like a series of irregular hills, and when seen from the tops of the steeples, they are so huge as to shut out thi view of the sea. The traveller, in visiting them from the plains, all at once ascends into a region of deser barrenness. He walks on and on for miles in a wilder ness such as might be expected to be seen in Africa. and at last emerges on the sea shore, where the mode o creation of this singular kind of territory is at once con spicuous. Loose particles of sand are blown in his face ; and as he descends to the shore, he sinks to th, ancle in the drifted heaps. In some parts of these dreary solitudes, the sandy soil has peen prevented from rising with the wind and injuring the fertile country, 13.3 being sown with the seeds of a particular kind of bent 3 grass, and in a few spots fir-trees have been success• fully planted.—Chambers' Continental Tour. iss Bruce, Miss Dolby, and Mr. Parry, jun., are engaged by Mr. Corrie to sing at the Concerts to ta given next week at Reading, Southampton, Winchester, Portsmouth, Salisbury, Bath, &c. THE CAT NO MATCH FOR THE SWALLOWS. —One evening, during last week, while the wind war from the south, and blowing with sudden gusts, a swal. low's nest in the corner of a window in Maybole, was Mown down, and the scarcely fledged young, six in num her, were thrown to the ground. Two of them wen secured by the humane gentleman, the corner of whose window the "old uns" had tenanted for many a year; three others were afterwards found on the street, and the five were lodged in a woden cup or dish, in a garret room, where, the window being left open, the old birds entered. and converted the dish into a nest, The sixth, however, was still missing, nor was it discovered for an hour after. words, when it was seen on the green sward, behind the house, in a dangerous predicament. A cat had marked it for her prey, and would have devoured it instanter, but that almost all the swallows about Maybolc had come to its rescue, and screeching their bitter war-cry, were swooping at her in dozens, and whisking the hair out of her head at such a rate, that poor Grimalkin ran a great chance of being pecked to death I Fairly routed, Puss beat a speedy retreat, when, unprecedented though the incident may appear, the young swallow was raised by about halt' a dozen of its brave defenders, carried up not without difficulty, to the garret window, and restored to it , place amongst the rest of the brood, all of which are now fully feathered, and will be soon on the wing. —Edinburgh Paper. The Monument to the memory of Guthenberg, to be erected at Strasbourg, in 1840, consists of a bronz, statue of Guthenberg, with a printing press before him. from which he is about to draw a proof, and of four bas • reliefs, representing the benefits of printing in the foul quarters of the world. It is designed and modelled b) M. David, and is now being cast by Messrs. Sayer and Inge at Paris. To carry the object into effect, an auxili. ary Committee has just been formed in Paris, composed of some of the leading savans of that capital. An auxiliary Committee is also forming in England, which already boasts some of the highest names in our literature, science, and the fine arts. The union of enlightened men in both countries, to do honour to the illustrious dead, will serve to cement the friendly union between the people, and will, no doubt, find ample support from reflecting and intelligent men of all political parties. THE CHARTISTS.—We are informed that the Llandiloes Chartists, who were sentenced to transportation at the late assizes, have been removed to the hulks, in order to be embarked for the place of tbeir destination. BRITISH INDIA.—A strange rumour of a very general conspiracy against our Government is stated tt, hare obtained much credit in the Upper Provinces : it i, of the following tenor, as given in the Calcutta Courier : —"A conspiracy has been announced by the Government in the secret department to the head of every political office in India ; Dost Mahomed Khan, the King of Persia, and Maun Sing, of Jodpoor, are at the head of it, but its ramifications include almost every chief of note. The Nawab of Bhopal was the last to join it. His agreement was to murder Mr. Wilkinson, the political agent in Bho pal, and to march instantly to join Holkar in an attack en the cantonment at Mhow. His share of the spoils was to be the country from Raeseen to Ratghur. The Bundelkund chiefs were to make a simultaneous attack on Saugor—the signal for the insurrection was to be the approach of the Persian and Affghan armies, who, it was presumed, would advance unchecked, as our troops would have had enough to do to meet the outbreaks on all sides of India. This conspiracy was discovered by an active Magistrate in the Madras Presidency, who apprehended two men calling themselves pilgrims to Mecca. They subjected them• selves to suspicion on matters they seemed to have no business with. This led to their apprehension — a t the first examination nothing was proved against them, but they were put into confinement, and the matter reported to Government. Before any reply was received, the whole of their most extensive and minute instructions were found sewed up in their clothes, much of which instructions was in cypher. The report is, that the number of emissaries thus employed amounts to 200." EAST INDIES.--Some three years have elapsed since the East India Government, suspecting that the Rajal of Satarra, whose territory is situated about eighty miles from Bombay, was truckling and communing with the English troops appointed to the district, condemning his Ministers to imprisonment, and his Highness himself to the insult and arrogance of the constant " surveillance" of a body guard. Of this act of interference the Rajah has repeatedly complained, denying all participation in the crime of which his captors accuse him, and alleging, that as the troops whom it is pretended he has attempted to suborn, muster a paltry force of eight hundred men, it is absurd to conceive he should have risked the chance of embroiling himself in a quarrel with a nation whom all the Indian potentates have been taught to dread, in order to attain so insig nificant an accession to his armament as the desertion of the British, with whom it is said he has been trafficking, could have secured. The Rajah, whose repeated remon strances have hitherto been either derided, or have at least proved ineffectual, resolved to dispatch en embassy to this country to enforce the claims, the representa tion of which by written communications he had found to be in vain. The Reliance, Captain Robertson; has brought to our shores the personages to the per formance of whom this duty has been intrusted. Inclu sive of an interpreter and attendants, they are 10 in num be. The Vachell, or Plenipotentiary, is Yescoantrow Raja Serka. We may be excured if we omit the cognomens of his suite. It is an easier task to construe Lycophron than to decypher Sanscrit. _ _ _ RAILWAY GUIDES.—Mr. Wvld, y in f o ll ow i ng out a pla n w hi c h h e commence d some , time ago, has just published a guide to the Great Western Railway, con. "lining a full description of all the towns and villages within ten miles of the line, with some interesting and minute details of the mode of constructing railroads in England and the United States. It is illustrated with numerous woodcuts and maps, and also gives some direc tions which must appear strange to foreigners who have heard the liberty of a British subject so much extolled. The following would suit the meridian of any despotic country in Europe. " Take Fare, now you go to meet your sick wife returning born e la te at night from the country, where she has been to 11, re cover her h ea l th. You must wait patiently till she T .sb been h ustled by the swell mob and had her pocket picked i n t h e confusion of arrival, and if you behave quietly. anythin g , b e one carrying off wife sinkin your own baggage, or at least meet you individuals, you may se. has lost g under the insults she has met with. If she careful_ how you to seek for it, because off to the police for that act you may also be dragged go into the station t il l and.• • their fatigues, still certainly strange thar }our wife and children, after all be tolerated —nay sanctiononnedthbeyirPwaral ACCIDENT ON THE 131 England such a system should way unattended." It is erday a serious 1111 IIN:II . ANI RAlL ciaucectileclent happened on the ROAD.—yesterday the carriages, with the en two RAlL linebeing n properly near Coventry . t urbe d , I n fo c u o r n o s fe e of . the pointers not ginc, ran off the road. The guid e Was thrown in bet two carriages and much bruised, and several passengers were left behind. We have not heard, however, that any lives were lost. THE SUN, LONDON. FRIDAY, AUGUST 2, PM. IMPERIAL PARLIAMEN T. METROPOLIS POLICE BILL. Upon the motion of the Earl of Shaftesbury, the Re port of the Metropolis Police Bill was brought up. Upon the motion that the Bill be read a third time, i conversation took place, upon a proposition from Lord Ellenborough, that the clause which prohibits the use rf dogs in carts should be modified, on which Lord BROUGHAM condemned in strong terms , he employment of dogs to a use for which nature had not trained them. The manner in which dogs were used o draw carts, both with merchandize and with men in them, was perfectly shocking and disgusting. Moreover ire had been informed by medical_ men that that mest lamentable of all diseases, hydrophobia, had greatly ncreased of late years ; and that they had no hesitation arhatever in ascribing that to the mode of exhausting the strength and tormenting the physical powers of dogs by their employment as animals of draught. Lord ELLENBOROUGH had received a letter t'rom a poor man which represented that he should be under the necessity of having an ass if he were not to be permitted to use his dog to draw his little cart or truck, which would put him to an expense that he could ill bear. The Noble Lord oelieved that this would be the case with many others. He wished to know if there would be any objection to titer the clause, so as to allow dogs to be used to draw carts or trucks in which goods only should be conveyed. Lord DUNCAN NON should have no objection to that. The Earl of WICKLOW said it was altogether a new system of thus employing dogs, and it was most of `ensive and most objectionable in every respect. He de nied that keeping an ass would cost a poor man more than keeping two large Newfoundland dogs, and lie sincerely trusted that the clause would be allowed to stand in such terms as would put an end altogether to such a use of dogs. Lord HADDINGTON objected to this use of dogs. Lord ELLENBOROUGII withdrew his proposi tion, and the clause Was allowed to stand as originally proposed. The Bishop of LONDON drew the attention of the House to the fact that there were certain parts in this metropolis in which he believed that fever always pre vailed, from their very crowded and filthy state, and hich well merited the attention of the local authorities, with a view, if possible, to remedy that evil. He be lieved the remedy could only be effectually applied by pulling down ma n y o f th e h ouses b y degrees. Lord WHARNCLIFFE entirely agreed in the propriety of the observations that had been made by the Right Rev. Prelate. Lord HADDINGTON wished to know if there was any clause in this Bill which really put it into the power of the Magistrates to put an end to the trifling amusements of children in the streets, and especially to put an end to the exhibitions of the never-to-be-for gotten Purich7—(Hear and laughter.) He could not help thinking that if there were to be any dangerotis exhibitions in the streets, the law, as it now stood, would enable the Magistrates to remove them. If there was any such clause as he had alluded to in this Bill he begged it to be understood that it had n 6 his consent. Lord DUNCANNON was afraid it might by this Bill be in the power of the Magistrates to put an end even to the exhibition of Punch, but he could not con- ceive that any Magistrate would think of exercising such a power.—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") Lord WHARNCLIFFE was understood to offer his objection also to any such clause. Lord DUNCANNON would look again at the clauses, with the view of ascertaining the precise fact. The Earl of WICKLOW did not think that the power given to the Magistrates authorized any such thing, because there was a clause which excepted amusing exhibitions of this sort before houses where the proprietors of houses desired to have them. Lord WHARNCLIFFE called the Noble Lord's attention to another point. He wished to know if -`l there was any clause in the Bill to prevent the large advertisement carriages from passing along the streets? Lord DUNCANNON said there was a clause relating to the placards that were carried along the pavements, but he believed that there was none that directly applied to the large machines to which the Noble Lord had referred. It was found difficult to frame a clause affecting them without having extended it also to inscriptions, &c. on waggons. Report received. Upon the motion of Lord DUNCAN NON, the Bill was ordered to be read a third time. Upon the motion of the Marquis of L ANSD 0 NV NE, the Sheriff's Exemption Bill was read a third time and passed. SLAVE TREIES BILL Lord MINTO moved the se cond reading . of the Slave Treaties Bill. Those who opposed the Bill supposed, if it passed, that it would set this nation in arms against the whole world ; no such thing, for the whole of its provisions were founded upon treaties that bad been made with other States. It was a necessary preliminary to a greater un dertaking. The Bill would make African Chiefs give up their traffic in the slave trade, which was a source of great profit to them. The Bill empowered the capture of Portuguese and other ships if they had not their proper papers on board. The Bill was most essentially necessary and had been introduced in consequence of a pledge on the part of the Government, and he trusted therefore their Lordships would permit the Bill to be read a second time. The Duke of WELLINGTON concurred in the state ments of the Noble Earl who had just spoken as to the necessity of putting an end to the slave trade in Portugal, but he could not think the present measure would have that effect.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") There could be no doubt that the evils of slavery, still existed in that country ; but he thought that those evils had been greatly aggravated by the course that had been adopted by the country. It must be admitted that this country had an undoubted right to call upon Portugal to carry out the treaties into which it had entered with this country ; but he was afraid that more enlightened nations than Portugal—nations which had not been subjected to the horrors of revolutions for so long a period as that un happy country, had encouraged the slave trade, and felt reluctance to put an end to it. He could not see why the Queen's Executive Government should not call upon Portugal to perform its treaties, instead of calling in the aid of Parliament for the purpose of enforcing it. —( Hear, hear.) Such a proceeding, in his opinion, would tend much more to pacification than the adoption of the present Bill. If her Majesty's Government had proceeded to de cide on this subject itself a project of arrangement would have been drawn up, and answers to that project, in a diplomatic form, would have been given up, and upon the reasonableness or unreasonableness of those answers her Majesty's Government might fairly and justly have de cided whether extremities should have been resorted to or not. From such a course the best results he believed, would have emanated but he thought the experiment of the pre sent Bill to coerce would be attended with the worst effects. Portugal might then concede—she mieht admit that she was bound by the treaties of 1810, and 1817—and then both countries would have acted with mutual honour. He was most desirous that a friendly understanding should continue between those ancient allies. The recital of the preamble related to Portugal ; but that recital was merely making out a one-sided case. It did not however state all. It omitted an article in the treaty of 1817. It also omitted to state the negotiation that had lately taken place between the two Governments. There bad been he un derstood a certain degree of support promised to the Por tuguese Government if they would abolish the slave trade— why was not that stated now ? Was it just between man and ma tto pass this Bill without laying that information before the House ? If her Majesty decided upon going to war with Portugal those facts would be first stated. He had heard of the irregular proceeding's of another sort of blockade to secure commercial objects. It made partial war for that purpose. But he was sorry that we, by our HOUSE OF LORDS, Avausr 1. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at Five o'Cloci. A message from the House of Commons brought up the Highways and Turnpike Roads Bill, with their Lordships' amendments agreed to, and some other Bills. The Duke of Argyle, Lord Ashburton, and Lord Roden presented petitions in favour of a penny postage. The Earl of RIPON wished to know from the Noble Marquis opposite if it was likely he would be in a situation soon to lay on the table the papers respecting Malta, which he (the Noble Earl) asked him for about five weeks ago. The Marquis of NOR MA NBY said he should inquire. Lord REDESDALE presented a petition praying for an alteration in the Bartardy clause in the Poor-law Amendment Act. The Archbishop of CANTERBURY presented a petition, most highly and respectably signed, from the city of Edinburgh in favour of the Bible being made the basis of any system of national education that might receive the sanction of Parliament. Lord ELLENBOROUGH wished to ask a ques tion of the Noble Viscount. As he should have to make a few observations, probably it would be the most regular way for him to conclude by moving a motion. He desired to draw the Noble Viscount's most serious attention to the information which had just been received from China with respect to opium. He understood that the Government of China had de termined to put an entire end to the illicit trade in opium, and that a Commissioner had been dispatched to Canton to communicate that, and to take steps for carrying out that intention. He was informed also that no less than 20,000 chests of opium, amounting in value he should suppose at least to two millions of pounds sterling, had been delivered to Captain Elliott, the Su perintendent there, upon an indemnity being given to the British subjects. He begged to know if the Noble Viscount could at once lay on the table the despatches which had been received on this subject from the Su perintendent at Canton. Lord MELBOURNE said no such despatch had been received. He believed the facts to be pretty much as the Noble Lord had stated them, but he had no official information respecting it. Lord BROUGHAM moved that a request be sent to the House of Commons that it would he pleased to furnish this House with a state ment of the Bills brought into that House on or after the Ist of July, distinguishing those that had been brought in since the 15th of last month. He believed [hat a Bill had been brought in only last night by the Lord Advocate for Scotland for the collection of Rogue money. occupation of Carthagena, a part of the republic of Central America, had furnished a precedent for that proceeding. If this Bill were passed it would have the effect of making war on Portugal, but not through the Soverei t 'n, as on former occasions, but through the Legis lature. Therefore he opposed the Bill. It authorised our cruizess to seize any ship and examine her papers before she was permitted to proceed on her voyage. He warned the Government against such a course, The Govern ment ought to proceed on a diplomatic basis, and having made out a case against Portugal, showing that she'liad not fulfilled her treaties, then her Majesty's Ministers might come down with a message from the Crown to this House. He recommended their Lordships not to pass the Bill. Viscount MELBOURNE said that in bringing for ward this Bill they were fulfilling a pledge they had made to the other House. The Noble Duke admitted we had a right to call upon Portugal to fulfil those engagements for which she had received the price and the considera tion. But be objected to the course proposed in this Bill. He complained that there was not sufficient state. ments—sufficient notes brought forward at present. But here were notes between the Secretary for Foreign Af fairs and the notes of the Portuguese Ministers—the whole correspondence between this country and Portugal for four years was now before the House. Portugal de manding that this country should secure her against any danger of losing her colonies if she should abolish slavery, and should permit her to make certain arrangements re specting slaves in those countries; and further, that she should be limited only to a certain time. But this country had objected to all those demands, as tending on the one side to secure Portugal at all times in the possession of her colonies under any circum stances, and on the other to perpetual slavery. What this country wanted was the perpetual abolition of slavery. It could not be denied that Portugal had not fulfilled those engagements for which this country had made such large pecuniary sacrifices, to induce her to adopt. The Noble Duke said then why not go to war with Por tugal ? But this Bill was intended to avoid such an alter native ; it would empower her Majesty to proceed as should be found most expedient to abolish the slave-trade, but it would not bind her to any course. It would enable her to go as far as she could go without an irrevocable de claration of war. It would arm the Government with powers so ample as to secure the cffec/they all desired. But if their Lordships should withhold tTeir support from her Majesty and the Government by supporting this Bill they would give the greatest encouragement to Portugal to continue in her obstin ac y, see i ng, as P ortuga l thn must, that she was supported by a strong party in this country; that party, namely, which would, if they opposed this Bill now, desert the Government and the Crown. He thought the objections of the Noble Duke against this Bill were not sustained ; but he would remind them that their Lordships would inflict a severe blow on this country, and throw a vast obstacle in the way of the abolition of the slave trade, however much they might desire its ex tinction, if they rejected the Bill.---( Hear.) The Duke of WELLINGTON explained. He said her Majesty's Government were bound to enforce the treaties, if they thought Portugal had violated them. That was a question which her Majesty's Government should have decided upon. But if the Government came down to this House to ask for support, they should give the most ample diplomatic information. He still objected to the Bill, because he thought the Government hr d not done so, and therefore he should desert the Government, because he thought her Majesty's Ministers were depart ing from the constitutional, honest, just, and fair course, which ought to regulate our proceedings with other coue tries.—( Hear, hear. ) The Earl of DE VON would not yield to the Noble Lords at the other side of the House, in sincere anxiety to abolish the slave trade. The question was, whother the present Bill was likely to effect that purpose? It should have shown them that they had heard all Portugal had to say upon h er own s id e ; b u t it did not d o so . H e op . posed on e s t art li ng prov i s i on in the Bill—th a t was , t h at which proposed to give our ships tl.e right of search over foreign vessels all over the world. The Government should have judged for itself, how it should act with Por tugal; and if the House should not support it, it would not be deserting it, but the Government would have deserted its duty to itself, and the Crown, and the country. —( Hear, hear.) He chiefly complained that no state ment had been made to show why the particular power required by the Bill, was considered necessary by the Government. He, therefore, suspected the Bill, and would oppose it.—( Question, question.) Earl MINT() replied. There had been a long nego ciation, a n d t h e correspcn d ence i n it was b e f ore the House. They had had the negociation of Lord Howard dc Walden, with the Portuguese Minister, and other diplomatic cor respondence, long before the House—long enough for their Lordships to make themselves masters of all the particulars of the case. The Noble Earl had called this measure unconstitutional.—( Hear, hear.) But the House of Commons was no bad judge of Constitutional measures, and yet, echoing the feelings of the nation, the House of Commonss had unanimously, and with acclamation, passed this Bill, and now it remained for their Lordships to throw the shield of their power over the faithless Go vernment of Portugal and the iniquitous slave traffic.— ( Cheers.) True, her Majesty might order the detention of ships, but that would be at the risk of the Government— (Hear, hear)—and such a proceeding might end in war.— ( Hear.) But the Government did not want to go to war. The object of this Bill was to carry out their objects without war, and to secure British subjects in other countries from the penalties they must otherwise incur if our cruisers were to stop and search the ships of nations with which we were not at war. He could not but regret that the House of Lords seemed to be less disposed to put an) end to this traffic than any other body of persons.— ( Hear, hear.) The effect of the House rejecting this BiH would produce one of two results, either to compel her Majesty to go to war with Portugal, or to leave the slave trade to prevail under the flag of Portugal, fostered and encouraged by England.—(Cheers.) Earl DEVON explained. The LORD CHANCELLOR then put the amend ment, that the Bill be read a second time this day three months. Strangers were ordered to withdraw for a division. When we were re-admitted we found the numbers to be, For the amendment Against it, an d f or the second reading 32 38 Bill lost by ............ UNLAWFUL OATHS (IRE . .. ....... Upon a questio n by Lord WHARNCLIFFE, Lord DUNCANNON said that as the discussion upon the Slave Trade Bill had taken so much time he pro posed that the Unlawful Oaths (Ireland) Bill should now be read a second time, and that the debate should be taken upon it upon going into Committee. Lord ELLENBOROUGH complained that this Bill had been drawn with a superlative degree of carelessness. According to the terms of it, as those terms now stocd, there would not be a Member of their Lordships' House who would not be guilty of an unlawful confederacy from the hour at which the Bill passed, because all of them were in possession of a printed copy of the password of ribbon men.—(Laughter.) Upon the motion of Lord DUNCANNON the Bill was 'cad a second time, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday next. Upon the motion of Lord DUNCANNON the Eccle siastical Preferments Bill passed through Committee, and the Report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow. On the motion o f Lord DUNCANNON the Militia Ballot Suspension Bill passed through a Committee, was reported without amendments, and ordered to be read a third time to. morrow. On the motion of Earl SIIAFTESBURY the Letters Patent Act Amendment Bill was read a third time and passed. The LORD CHANCELLOR laid on the table the Infants (Court of Equity) Bill, which was read a first time, and The House adjourned at a few minutes before Nine o' Clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Avevsr 1. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. MANCHESTER AND BIRMINGHAM RAIL- WAY EXTENSION BILL. Mr. MILDM AY moved that the Committee on this Bill have leave to enlarge the time for making their Report from day to day to the 12th of August. Mr. EASTHOPE thought it proper to state to the House that though this application had been made at the instance of a majority of the Committee, yet there were Members who thought no practical benefit could result from its being acceded to ; that evidence had been excluded of two competing lines of railway, which evidence mast be heard, in their opinion, before the inquiry could satisfactorily be terminated ; and that at this prolonged period of the Session it was impossible that the Bill could pass into a law. On these ground , ' he opposed the motion. BROTHERTON considered the opposition most extraordinary.—(Hear, hear.) The Committee had been sitting forty-six days—an accidental circum stance had produced the delay in making their Report._. a majority of three to one had decided on this applica tion; and now it was attempted to prevent them from reporting.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. MILDMAY said the delay had partly been the result of his own oversight, and he should d ee pl y regret this motion not being carried. Mr. wouldG I S n B o tOR supportN E wtahe li was Membert e Bi for in Leicester principle, but in this opposition.—( Hear, hear.) Bill The motion was ilgreed to. Mr. EASTHOPE then presented a petition from the Midland Counties Railway Company against the Bill. HALIFAX SMALL DEBTS BILL. On the motion of Mr. C. WOOD this Bill was read a third time and passed. PENNY POST. Mr. MART presented a petition from the Con gregational Union, in favour of a penny postage. Mr. HODGES presented several petiti ons from dif ferent pl aces i n t h e count i es ofKent and S ussex, com plaining o f t h e T it h e Commutation Act. COLLECTION OF RATES BILL. Mr. EW ART gave notice that in the Committee on the Collection of Rates Bill, he should move the omis sion of the second clause, and if he did not succeed in his motion on the third reading lie should move the re jection of the Bill. CHINA. An IloN. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, was desirous of ascertaining from the Right Hon. Gentleman, the President of the Board of Control, it there was any foundation for the ramours which had been circulated that the British residents and merchants had been seized at Canton, and imprisoned by the Chinese authorities, and onlry released on condition of g►v►rg up all the opium in their possession,which had been destroyed. These reports. had created a great sensa- PRIVILEGES OF THE HOUSE. Lord JOHN RUSSEL L having moved the . Order of the Day for considering the petition of Messrs. Han sard, also moved that the Resolution s of the House, of the 30th M a y, 1837, respect i ng the privilege of print ing the proceedings and reports of the House, be read by the Clerk. That having been done, the Noble Lord said, he rose for the purpose of bringing under the consideration of the house the steps which it might be expedient to take with regard to the notice which had been served upon Messrs. Hansard, that an action was to be proceeded in against them for publishing the proceedings authorised by the House. In doing so he thought it as well to state the position in which they stood with regard to the power of publishing their proceedings. Upon a proceeding somewhat similar to the one in question the House ap pointed a Committee to inquire into the precedents upon which this power had been exercised by the House, and the ground s upon w hi ch that privilege might be maintained. That Committee found that the right was inherent in the House, and belonged to the consti tutional functions of the House, and was necessary for the ' due performance . o f t h ose functions, and had been exer cised for a very long period of time, more particularly at the time of the Revolution, when, under the sancti,m of Speaker Williams, the Votes of the House were printed and published, nay, sold, and the sale had be come so extended as to be a matter of profit, the re turns from the sale exceeding the expense for printing. That was very likely to be the case in those times, because the public had not then, as now, the facility of reading in the newspapers of the day the debates which occurred the evening before. The pub lic in general only obtained such information, scantily, from month to month, in the magazines, and the only authorized information the public had was from the Votes of the House, authorized to be printed and sold by the House. He only recurred to that fact be cause of a very prevalent opinion that the practice of selling the publications, printed by order of the House was totally a new practice, and did not rest upon the same foundation as the other privileges of the House. The fact he be lieved to be that the- practice in old times was much more extensive than in the present day. In consequence of the Report of that Committee, the House entered into those resolutions which had been read by the Clerk at the table. Discussions took place in the House as to the manner in which that power was given, and how it ought to be exercised when infringed upon by an action being brought in a Court of Law for a publication authorized by the House. It was contended that the more regular way of proceeding was to go into a Court of Law, and thereby inform the Judges that the publication by Messrs. Hansard was one autho rised by the House, and the House claimed the privi 17e, as one that was undoubted—th e privilege of autho rising the publication of their proceedings. It was no doubt the expectation of the House—at least it was held out to the House—that that was the re gular manner in which to inform the Court of their privileges, which were so clear and de cided ; and being informed by the Attorney-General that the Court would allow the answer to be a sufficient one, and that after that answer the case would not be proceeded in—at all events, that the parties could not proceed to claim damages with respect to such publication—that course was proceeded in. The result of the proceeding was certainly different from the expectation that was held out, and the views which were propounded by the Court of Queen's Bench. Whatever they might be as a question of strict law, they were undoubtedly of a most extraordinary nature aa far as concerned the powers and functions of this House, b ecause i t was held that a Report by an inspector of prisons, with regard to the prison of Newgat e and with regard to the nature of the books admitted there, was not a matter that could at all concern this House in its legislation—(Hear, hear) —and could have no effect as to any proceedings which it might take with regard to that person, and that there fore such publication was entirely unjustifiable. With out entering into the question of law, he must say that such an opinion propounded by the Chief Justice struck him with astonishment, and convinced him that it would not be right to entrust the decision of their privileges to a Court of Law—(Cheers)—because the very narrow and contracted notion which appeared to prevail in the Court of Queen's Bench, if allowed to be carried into their full effect, would entirely deprive their House of the most useful, and most important of its privileges— (Hear, hear)—and might prevent it from obtaining for itself, and communicating to the public at large, that general inf ormat i on wh i ch was necessary for the maintenance of the authority of this House and the satisfaction of the public in general, who watched its proceedings. A question was then brought be fore the House whether the opinion having been given against the privileges of the House, it was necessary to proceed in order to prevent the execution of the judgment, to prevent the damages being levied by the inferior officers of the Court. O n that occasion the House was of opinion, by a very small majority, that, having allowed the matter to go so far, that having at least apparently pleaded in the cause, and asked for the judgment of the Court— that that was trot a stage in which they could properly interfere in- vindication of the privilege. The House, therefore, came to the resolution to take such measures as were necessary, upon the Report of the Select Committee appointed to consider the subject ; but, at the same tame, in answer to a question by the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, he (Lord J. Russell) stated there was nothing in that resolution to prevent the House proceeding should any case occur in which it might be necessary to vindicate their privileges before the Report of that Committee should be made. It appeared that such a case had actually occurred, for the Messrs. Hansard had received a letter from a person calling himself the attorney of a Mr. Polack, who was about to commence an action against them for printing and publishing a Report of a Committee. Now, first what was this Report ? And certainly it did appear to him (Lord .J. Russell) that, rather extraordinarily, this was in favour of the House a much stronger case than the former one of Stockdale —(Hear hear.) In this case the action was brought for printing and publishing a Report of a Select Committee of the House of Lords respecting the islands of New Zealand. He would not enter into the evidence—(Hear, hear)—but he would state that the question relative to New Zealand was a most important one ; it had been under the consideration of the Government—it had attracted great attention— and a Bill had been introduced upon the subject. That House had ordered no special investigation of its own, but had reprinted the Report of a Committee which had been appointed by the House of Lords to examine into the subject—" to inquire into the present state of the New Zealand Islands, and the expediency of regulating the settlement of British subjects there. The Lords named upon the Committee included the Lord Presi dent of the Council, the Duke of Wellington, Earl of Devon, Lord Hillsborough, Earl of Durham, Earl Ripon, Viscount Gordon, the Bishop of London, the Bishop of Lincoln, the Bishop of Hereford, Lord Glenelg, Lord Ellenborough, Lord Broug ham and Vaux, and Lord Ashburton. That Com mittee were engaged for a considerable time in taking evidence upon New Zealand ; they came to a reso lution to make their Report, which they did very shortly stating, that with regard to the main point of the subject, the proceedings ought to begin with the Government, but stating also certain opinions with respect to the settle ment of New Zealand, recommending at the same time that a part of the evidence should be printed for the use of the Lords. He thought it could be hardly asserted, having been so printed, that the evidence was entirey confined to the Members of that House—(Hear, hear.) —and they had it now stated upon the authority of the Judge, that the question of selling was not material in this respect.—(Hear, hear.) The whole question turned upon publication. It was extravagant to affect that Hon. Members might have, provided they kept it strictly confined to themselves, the proceedings of both Houses of Parliament, because he could not be lieve that it was practicable. Whoever went into the house of a Peer would find upon his table se veral large books and Reports, both of the proceedings of the House of Lords and of the Commons, and there could be no doubt that if any person wished to have infor mation with regard to New Zealand, a Noble Peer would not think himself justified in keeping from such an indi vidual a copy of the evidence that had been given on that subject. He would take it for granted that the Peers, whose names he bad read to that House only re ported to the House, for the purpose of being p r i n t e d, such evidence as they thought material for the consideration of the subject. They did not print ev id ence wantonly, for the purpose of injuring private indivi duals ; and in the next place he was sure the evidence so printed by them was in fact publ is h e d b y t h em, and made known by them in the way the law csn ridered publication. The Report was then commu nicated to the House of Commons. He would not now enter into the question of what might be contained in it, or whether it had any effect on the character of Mr. Polack ; it was sufficient for him to say that that House. had received the evidence as taken before a Committee of the H o u se o f L or d s, an d lisd it printed by their order. Whether they were justified or not in that proceeding, be (Lord J o h n R usse ll) th o ught the resolution of the Hou se t o p r i n t and publish those proceedings was in it se lf a sufficient autlio ray to Messrs. Hans a rd, an d that they were jus tified. in what they had do ne by the fact of the order Sir R. INGLIS said he should oppose the resolu tions, and he could not help expressing his regret that the Noble Lord standing there, not only as a Minister of the Crown, but as the guardian of the law, should have indulged in the expres sion which had escaped him in reference to tho Supreme Court of Judicature.—(Contemptuous cries of " Hear, hear" from the Ministerial benches.) He had not expressed himself accurately, if he had cen sured the Noble Lord's declaring his unwillingness to trust the privileges of that House to the keeping of the Judges in that Court; but he was sorry that the Noble Lord should have added that those Judges were men of narrow and contracted views. But what were the facts of the case as related to the case of Polack. The House had no real cognizance of the case ; but he apprehended that the Court of Queen's Bench had not only decided the case of Stock dale, but also that of Polack. His information led him to believe that Polack had brought an action against the . Times for publishinr, an extract from th e very Re port in qu es ti on , an d had recovered damages. 'Was the House then to come forward and say that the Court had given a wrong decision, they having had nothing to do with it. His Noble Friend said he wondered that Polack had allowed the publication by the House of Lords to pass, and waited to pounce upon that House the moment they published the document : but the Noble Lord assumed two things—he first assumed that the Lords had published the document.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Now the very first witness put into the box would say that he went to Hansard's and bought the , Report f or 3 s . 4d. C ou ld t h ey say so o f t h e L or ds . He did not pretend to say what wes t , la: whether there was, any difference in po ' in point law in the selling of the papers, but certainly e, there was Abingdon-street o of proofpurchase from an y proved compared to the proof of -'s'etrryeeetssoerntiTalurdnifft,:lreenwcasinfoeprastihle publica tion useless to g t Ito w g: a o s t . o the whole -o ndividual Peer.—(Hear, hear.) on unless they were prepar ed heered in that way they extent.—(Cheers.) If they d e e y the had very strong nerves in ed. believedthey must indeed exert their courage, for he Igreat body of the House would not go along with them. Did they su pp os e that Charles Shaw wou ld , upon the first proceeding fall down upon his knees —at once succumb and beg pardon .of the House? Suppose he were to do so, were there no more Charles Shaws in the profession ? Did they suppose that their weak I thunder would frighten and bring Mr. Joel humbly to their bar as a supplicant for mercy. Under such circum stances Mr. Polack would do what Mr. Pearman had done on a certain occasion; he would take advantage of a fine morning and a steame r for Calais, and then what would become of the orders of that House? The difference between the orders of that House and those of the Court of Queen's Bench was, that that Court was a permanent body, while the House of Commons was dependent for its breath on the will of the Noble Lord opposite.— (Laughter.) If t h at N o b le Lord ' s friends should say 1 tion, and he was desirous of knowing if there was any foundation for them. Sir J. HOBHOUSE said, if he understood the Hon. Member rightly, he had asked him whether he had received any official documents from India with re ference to the rumour that was in circulation of the im prisonment of several of the English merchants at Canton, and the seizure of a large quan tity of opium.—(hear, hear.) In answer to that question, he had to say that no such officialnotice bad been received at the India House; at the same time he could not give the Hon. Member the assurance which he asked that the rumour was not true ; but all that he could say was that neithe r the India House nor him self bad received any official communication on the subject. of the House. He thought they could not be justly accused of having caused the publication of matter wan• tonly reflecting on the character of an individual by pub lishing. the Report of a Committee of the House of Lords, in which the evidence complained of was con tained. This person had instructed an attorney to commence an action against the Messrs. Hansard. He (Lord John Ruseell) would observe, in the first place, that this evidence had been taken before a Committee of the House of Lords, and published by them. Why had this person passed over the opportunity of commencing proceedings against the publication by the House of Lords and re served himself until the publication by this House? He did not wish, however, to transfer the vin dication of their privileges to the House of Lords.— (Cheers.) He would say, that having ordered the publication themselves, it was their duty to take such further proceedings as might be necessary for the complete vindication of their authority. In what man ner should they proceed ? Should they again instruct the Attorney-General to appear in the Court of Queen's Bench, and state their grounds and reasons on which they rested this claim of privilege?—(Hear, hear, and cries of " No, no.") It must be obvious that such a course would be merely degrading their pri (Lvilege, and could only lead to a humiliating result.— oud cheers.) They had:done that which was ne cessary to justify themselves on the grounds of prudence and forbearance. . They had taken care to inform the Court of Queen's Bench of the grounds on which they considered their privilege necessary, and had d one a ll they could to avoid a collision with the authorities of the Courts of Law. Having done this they had not obtained a judgment, although he believed they were fairly entitled to it.—(Cheers.) All that now re mained to them was to adopt some other course of proceeding, in order to vindicate their privileges by Proceeding at once against The first person com mencing this proceeding.—(Hear, hear.) By the resolution which he was about to propose, all persons would have notice not to commence these proceedings, and if they proceeded in opposition to the resolution of the House by proceeding with this action they would have had due notice of the consequences. He thought in this manner they might safely protect the Messrs. Hansard against any consequences to which they might he exposed. He might be told that Attorneys and Counsel would willingly submit to be sent to prison by that House in vindication of what they considered the legal rights of the subject, and the authority of the Courts. It was true that it might be painful and 1 irksome to enter into this contest, but there was no alternative between entering into this contest on the one hand, or on the other the total de gradation of the privileges of the House, and a total abrogation of those functions which were ne cessary for the well-being of the country ; because of all the privileges which could be asserted this was the one which was least of all for the benefit of the Members of the House. On other occasions it might be argued they had asserted their privileges rather out of a jealousy of upholding their own dig nity than for the public welfare ; but observe the consequences of submitting in a case of this sort. If they submitted to the judgment of the Court of Queen's Bench, all the papers printed by the House must be strictly confined to the Members, and with re gard to all the proceedings, whether they were delibera tions on public affairs or matters of legislation, or whatever they might be, they must keep their proceedings secret, and deny the people any power of judging when they had acted with justice or in accordance with their true interests, or when they had denied justice and forgotten those interests.— (Loud cheers.) Would the country be satisfied with this state of things P Would they be satisfied with being told, with regard to a pris )1.1 or a colony, or any subject before the House, they should be ac quainted with their laws, when they had passed ; they should read the bare notes, but with regard to the grounds of their proceedings, with regard to the evidence given before either House of Parliament, they were precluded by a judgment of the Court of Queen's Bench from giving them any information on the subject? If they were to take that course, they would be doing that which in six weeks would be intolerable to the public, who might more justly say the House was taking advantage of this judgment in order to keep secret its proceedings—(Hear, hear)—and that it ought to take some means by which its proceedings should be given to the public. He therefore considered this to be a case i n w hi c h i t was necessary to maintain their privileges, and in the present case be saw no mode of proceeding except against the parties. At the same time, after the course pursued with regard to the late action against Messrs. Hansard, the • House could not, considering the cautious letter of Mr. Shaw, say that any proceeding had already been taken, which should be visited with the severe displeasure of the House. It was necessary the House should enter into a resolution, in order that Mr. Shaw and the public might be informed that the House thought it necessary to vindicate its privileges, and if he should then proceed, he would be summoned to the bar, and committed fur a breach of privilege. He should now move that Messrs. Hansard, the printers and publishers of the Reports of the Minutes of Evidence on the pre sent State of the Island of New Zealand, communicated by the House of Lords to this House on the 7th August, 1838, acted under the orders of the House, and that to bring, or assist in bringing, any action against them for such publication, would be a breach of the privileges of this House.—(Hear.) He should also move another resolution instructing Messrs. Hansard that they be directed not to answer the letter of Charles Shaw mentioned in their petition, and not to take any step towards defending the action with which they are threatened in the said letter.—(Hear, hear.) Sir P. BURDETT could not help feeling the extreme difficulty of the case, but agreed with the Noble Lord that the House ought to possess what ever power was necessary for the proper performance of its functions. The privileges of this House were not intended to be used as powers against other persons, but to shield the Members of the House against the exorbitant privileges of the Crown, which might be exercised so as to put a stop to free discussion, and the free agitation of Parliament. The House claimed privi leges now which were not beneficial to the public. It could never have been in contemplation that Members should be protected, for instance, against arrest for pri vate debt. But the whole object of Parliament had altered with the change in the state of the country. It used to be a regulation that no proceedings in the House should be reported out of it. This, among other things, had yielded to the alteration in the state of society. There was this difficulty in the way of the House, that when it once interfered, there was no means of knowing where it should stop. He had formerly been opposed to the House on a question in which he thought they assumed improper functions, of declaring ex poste facto a libel.—(Hear, hear.) But he considered the House should have all those powers which were necessary for the welfare of the public. And he should not, therefore, oppose the resolutions which he thought rational and consistent with the proper respect for the liberty of the subject. Still he feared that they were the commencement of a great deal of trouble and diffi Cu' ?VENING EDITION. to him, we are tired of the Session, and wish eo into the country, it was only for the Noble Lord to suggest to her Majesty a prorogation, and down it would come the next day. Under such circumstances what would become of the orders of the House, and under what danger would Mr. Pollack be placed ? There was an old adage in a cookery book of " catch your hare and then dress him," and he thought that might be very well applied in the present instance to the House of Com mons. But supposing that they imprisoned Mr. Po lack for three weeks—which, according to present ap pearances, was the utmost extent to which they could t Ho e u e s ts e, the frmn Prorogati ontaking do—would t h at deter some attorney or barrister, be wup similarandthe neaesta.rs—seni( Ha. lies bl e ing r oftio r. e ) He did not kn ow what thestate of busines s i n the Queen's Bench was at present ; but it might so happen that in the interval alluded to a case might be brought forward and decided,and would that House take upon itself to re-argue a cute that had already been decided in the Court of Queen's Bench ? Considering the imprac ticability et: the coarse that was proposed to be pur sued, he for one would not take the responsibility of it, and he should therefore move as an amend ment a negative upon the resolution. He thought that House had very little encouragement to claim what rights they pleased, and in the present instance, the fact of their giving their printers a right to sell, prevented them from holding the doctrine any longer that what they had done was for their own convenience, and for the preservation of their own rights. Having obtained the decision of the Court of Queen's Bench it was too late to say that that decision was wrong, and that the House would continue in the course which had been pronounced to be illegal by the highest tribunal in the country. He believed the House woreld be defeated in the present case, and although he was aware that he should be left in a considerable minority, he certainly felt it his duty to take the opinion of the House on the subject. Sir R. PEEL said that when the question was last before the House, a proposal was made that they should take a course tantamount to the committal of the She riff for levying the fine inflicted on Mr. Hansard ; but having permitted the Attorney-Gener a l to proceed and the Court to decide, he considered that it would be unjust to inflict punishment on a merely ministerial cdficer.—(Hear, hear.) But he then advised the House, if another case should occur, not to appeal to the Queen's Bench, but to assume the vindi cation of their own privileges—(Hear) —which course appeared to have received the sanction even of the Court in the decision which it had come to. He, therefore, asked whether they ought to permit Messrs. Hansard again to plead, or to determine on the vindication their own privileges?—(H ear, hear.) The House of L or d s , i n printing their Report, had taken the course which it was suggested this House should take, that of not giving the mimes of the parties. They had excluded the name of Mr. Polack, and contented themselves with giving the initials J. S. P. ; but inasmuch as Mr. Polack had been a witness before the Committee, and inasmuch as there was no other witness whose tiame bsgan with a P., it was quite clear th a t t h e w i se precaution of the House c Lords was of no avail, as it could refer to no other than Mr. Polack.—(;Tear, hear, and a laugh.) The in quiry had not been to enable the House of Lords to determine what course they should pursue in partic u l ar ease, lint to enabl e them to determin some e what general p o li cy thee should adopt with respect to the colonizstio n of :dew Zeala n d. A n d w h at he wished to observ e fro m ties w as , that the inquiry would be use less if it were only fbr the information of the Houses of Lords end Cemiaons.—( L ou d cr i es of " Hear, h ear .") The quintien was whether Parliament should encourage • emigration or not, and if thes' were not to give to future emigrants the evidence upon the subject, how is it sible th e y cou ll f u lfil t h e i r duties as the Grand In pos quest of the snior] ? It the inicnnation were confined to the Members of Parliameet, who probably did not intend to emigrate to New Zealand—(Loud laughter)—it would be perfectly useless. The inquiry was directed into the means of advancing civilization, and into the general state of the islatel—and how could this in formation b' available for the object for which it was intended, if it were not communicated to the public? Mr. Polack had, in his evidence, made very strong statements, doubtless what he considered to be the truth. Her had stated, for instance, that the slaves in New Zealand were given to lying. S ome persons contradicted this, whereupon Mr. Polack brings an action for libel. One of the most important branches of the inquiry had been as to the state of morality in the island. Mr. Polack was asked if the native popu lation had decreased ? He had answered Yes ; and the principal cause was, not war, but infanticide, stating that the women constantly destroyed their children. Then there were other questions as to the customs of property, hereditary succession, and so on—all topics deeply interesting to emigrants, and. which would be utterly useless if not communicated to the public. How could they conduct any inquiry with advantage to the public, if the Court of Queen's Bench were to pre vent-them from publishing those inquiries. Now, how very important was it to the intending emigrant to know the character of the people of the country to which he intended to go. In his evidence, Mr. Polack said the natives of New Zealand were very quarrelsome ; that they quarrelled if a pig passed over a cemetery ; in fact, that they went to war for the smallest offence ; , that they were children on the subject. Well, another witness was called, and was asked if he knew Pollack in New Zealand ?He said—N o ; but, in answer to other questions, he said he had known him in New South Wales., and, from several facts he knew respect ing him, he would not believe him upon his oath. (Cheers.) Now, should emigrants know, or not know, the character of those upon whose testimony they were to rely. In what situation was the Imperial 1 Parliament to be placed as the grand inquest of the na tion, if the whole of their inquiries were to be co:Abed to themselves. The question of sale made no dill in the qu es ti on , according' to the d ec i s i on o f the Q eeence Queen Bench ; th e y sa id t h e pu b lication was the offenceo that his Ri g h t H on . F r i end could not safe/y rely u , spon the difference between the, practice of the two Houses. The real tact was, that a publication by order of the House of Commons nisde the publication a privileged one—the moment they determined to publish or order a publication, the mariner in which it was done was nothing—it was privileged. What course, then, were they to pursue ? W as i t poss ib le to have a stronger case for dernonstratin e that th e privil ege o f publication was perfectly useless un l ess t h ey had power'to give it t o the public-a-(Cheers) —of what use could it be to the intended ernigrant if the information contained in the Report were confined to Members ? It, no doubt, was for the House to determine what should be published ; some things it might not be expedient to publish, that was for them to determine ; the moment it was left to another tribunal, that House became an inferior body, —(Cheers.) All he contended for was, that the House must hare the power of determining what evidence be fine them it was for the benefit of the community to know, and the moment they determined that it should be published then it became privileged, and they must take care that no extrinsic autlority exercised any jurisdiction whatever over it.—(Hear, hear, bear.) What should they do ? should they direct Messrs. Hansard again to plead ? They bad the decision of the Court of Queen's Bench against them. Should they submit to its authority? In that case they would abdicate at once, and for ever, the right of publication ; the other course was the one suggested by the Noble fLord, which was di s ti ngu i s h e d b y i ts mo d erat i on an d orbearance ; they w ou ld no t p rocee d at once to act upon because, as h e i mag i ne d , they y had theresolution ordered the Attorney-General 7, to pl ea d i n t h e former ease, but they gave notice that henceforth they intended to assume to themselves the vindication of their own privileges, and punish by their own authority all those who were guilty of any infraction of them.— (Loud cheers.) He thought the people would per ceive that this vindication of this privilege was not only not taken from pride or private interest, but was so en tirely intermingled with their public functions that its possession was ab so lut e ly necessary to the eff ec ti ve dis charge of th e i r d u ti es . He thought the pr o p os i t i on of the Noble Lord was calculated to effect this object. Most of the Judges had admitted that they were to discharge of their prope r f • possession of every privilege which was absolutely ne cessary for the aunctions, and if any person committed a Contempt, they might uaensdti°lC.:'.ourtAs ohfighlegal autho punish him by the exercise of their own authority, which socalledletudingeq, rity had laid it down, that in cases of contempt the Common Law could not interfere. That would be the most effec tual course for them to adopt, and having exercised that could function, Courts of Law could not interfere. He thought P V:I I t s t b h e e that no one could complain of any undue exercise of this authority. They House They had had recourse, in the first place, to Courts of Law, and they now exercised that power in vindication of a privilege which was essential to the performance of their duties. He thought by pursuing this course they should have the support of the people of this country in vindication of their privileges ; but, he that as it might, they would not have proved them. selves traitors to those functions which had been en trusted to them by the people of England, and that, after all, he apprehended, was the vital consideration. Sir. S. LUSHINGTON concurred most cordially in all the sentiments that lied been expressed by the Right Hon. Baronet, but there appeared to him some observa tions of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Oxford that required notice. He had only looked to one side of the question, and had not considered what the conse. quenccs would he of not acceding to the resolution. Supposing the House did not adopt the resolution, i n what situ a ti on , h e wou ld ask, would thei r pr i nter be placed ? Supp ose a n action was brought against him, it . was he to defend If he did not, w h at would be Wh damages? .y the jud gment the amount of the being allowed to go by default, th ere not being the slightest deform thousands might be given ae d amages. But suppose the other course t o b e adopted —suppose the prin • ter defended the action, and put in a justifica tion, that was the only other course that could ho adopted. What would be the consequence ? Why, the very case they were now discussing.. -that of having