The Sun. — London, England, 1845-06-21 00:00:00

S L. .A I , A k 0 .VA it it 4,r, als s , fa. k.,1 , nt bear fre tterly et on (YE:,.STERD:- . 1 Y.) bar* at 'A° ,f M. its 0 ,f the vice' irioto iyde d to lob ,ient E9Cl'' an 'rd i• 0" * AST GROUP K. 4 JEREHAIVE AND NORWICH RAIL WAY. I t, P ORTANT AN UNCEMEN T. A Nhax ws resumed the business of the Committee this tr i L r'2 by summing up hir case on behalf of the circuitous line %% 11 - ' 4 Dereh am and N orw i ch v i a W yn dh am. Th e L earned 4trupt'l by ad made a few preliminary observations, when be was in 'loses, who begged permission, before other business was t4 t.47eti with, to state that he had been instructed by the pro- °f the Bill to announce WITHDRAWAL or THE DISS, 1 4% A , CCLES, AND YARMOUTH LINE. thr retir ouo ,lon had been presented against th e di vers i on o f th e li ne 6th ob. qetheringham. The promoters had at first anticipated nu kit, je ction but as it had been emphatically urged, and the in -411e2 Yarmouth had unquestionably a right to insist on their Atip - i ", the petition was deemed worthy of eff.ct, and theretore ta ken calculated to meet the wishes of the petitioners. Th s ''' A rttsfsx expressed his approval of the course adopted by a 4 11 ' 6 - ,, °t ers of the scheme , as being a fragmentary line and open iti o bjections • the Committee had entertained strong doubts Il qit; aib ilitY end Merits. brzavv - AL or THE mAsrErtiv UNION --- - - - kr, j EXTENSION* PROJECTS. '"las wished also to state, that as the Eastern Union Rail 44hsons Bill had not yet passed, and as, from its present t, l er,iT, l immature state, it could not possibly pass the Standing P , St ° Mtnittee this session, those extensions, which had refe :itsl— (he di strict before that Committee, would be immediately IA. h: P W • pr eamble Of the above Bills were, accordingly, formally ne. Ohl, JA itt X ES inquired when the case of the Thetford and Norwich 11 4 , s rte , CS between Thetford and Bury, would be preceded the witnesses of the Eastern Union Extension Company .740 4 in toivn at consiskrable expense, ann a doubt was enter ,,'"ether the promoters o f th e f o r mer Bill h a d m a de out any T h ‘ tpv, ~ttt c,„ ' 4l alsN could not intima , e any feeling of the Committee t or r nY line as yet In abeyance, but he . would name Monday '3'1, 41. ' 1_ earth'? the case of the Eastern Union Company against 1 , 4 1 t, 4 :il and Bury line. Z i ek,„ t ' a twa, Q.C., after these important changes had been s h ,7Minued his address, urging that all the traffic which had ett by his opponents as goil , g on the direct line h ste til l (cessarily in preference adopt the non-circuitous ts ) ,, ke i . l. "-gh Wyndham At the same time other and ti,: ti t et e e important trade would fall upon the latter, and be M e te I ver the vast consuming districts through which it would the promot of the other line regarded time and dis. to, imabie as between Norwich and Dereham, how much the Otlf I .' , and as respec t s suc h accommo d a ti on , th e so.called tOo n in e travelled over 128 mi l es b e tween Norwich and s * bs s ; w hile the line through Wyndham, between the same etlsi,:(ll.lired a dist ance o f no n o r e th an 111 m ile s , thus etfectmg le n Neti °t. 17 miles, and a consequent decrease of time. Thu 'ttl tt s t C ` l uMel cincluded by calling on the Committee f ly p e the preamble of the Bill he represented satistac- N, th r oy 2 e d, to give the inhabitants of the district the t heit , selves pref. rred, and not to keep districts neeiiing railway accommodation divested of such ad -11 N e 4 gu t d ire , u 'ing the promoged perked which the opposing project 1 I, t Ii .„."iatt:°°4l was then cleared, and on the re-admission of ` ll -) e ,t4st (4illn ittee announced their decision that the preamble of Ittt, l %or ti ; r 'ugh Wyndham to Dcreharn was proved, but that the tisi,°"gh and Di s s, and the Dies, Beccles, and Yarmouth pro. w ithdraw n , the communication south of Norwich and Ic h er 4 .° London sho u ld be left e n tirely f o r the discussion of i 'si° n• They therefore negatived the Bill for the Direct el N% 6, 44 t hroughout. throu hoot decision „ was received with the most intense ex ' I N, III appeared to take all parties by surprise. Q 'Clock the Committee adjourned till 12 on Monday. 40 4 GROUP L. 1 )1 1 , 1 4 c r It SAIOUTEL ATIVICOSPIMIZIC ttcli ad i l ' Q t n ittee resumed this morning, present Mr. E. B. De -1 ‘' Oswald, Lord Clive, Mr. M. Milnes, and Mr. Vivian, h o L s t -e 'e was cross examined by Mr. ALEXANDRE, and stated V ta, te., o 7 i said that - the atmospheric line was unfavourable for h -ve l ine, in consequence of its gradients; but the '1, 1 7 l ine. of which he was the engineer, had also 4(, t t 'e ' re ' • r ' 4 . The steepest would be lin 75, over a plane 4 , t,s4 es ,; 1 . on a line eighty miles in length. He had ad. tft4tikty.4l.,;`nele line of rails from Lancaster to Carlisle, a distance 'lt t l em ed "e rinks by Shapp, and it was on the recommendation flit I • hi - ," i an Company that they altered that line to a double 11 •4 lin e for - w all not the only instance In which he had advocated a 1." et, Moderate traffic. S t , n - 'Wato and Lord Crave., Mr. Locke replied that the N.Ntti r , tu nnelling and that it passed over the Shapp over h a I ' •C -g• Theearthw orks were originally prepared for a f but • the bridges and other brickwork had been pre. k.nnble line. This alteration had been partly occasioned lt,"eti:Jable increase of tra ffi c for Scotland, hut chiefly by the tki.t4etitveq railway speculation on the minds of the Directors. T° Vi e w ri that a single line , if properly managed, was perfectly I 4 , 4 t t 'N a ,' n ow working a single line from Woking to Guildford. N e t "' e Mr. Locke replied that when land was taken, 1; 4 4 1:' "works we re made for a double line, and only a single t 44 ,14 'v ot e it was put down on one side, and one line might be t Pa while while the other line was being made. Such was the it an " the Newcastle and Carlisle Railway. e t 'll l)4 ' i ott er ti s t° ALEXANDER, Mr. Locke stated that it was s, fl e d tc , - "at the circumstance of the atmospheric trains being fir44tl io ct ?" , at high velocities between the stations would ruln:,ase the danger. The express trains on the London thNGt o 6nar n line passed each other at Rugby, and twice on the : 1, 4, 14 4, 4 li ne at the Guildford Junction and at Bishopstrike, ' Ma . ean weeper however, tne train stopped. At these er,,s... ing 4 " was the same, but on the atmospheric line it was ih rd ''eVe r 10 8 to the number of crossing places. His objec t tt only held as to the rate of speed, and he thought that an hour would not he tow much. He knew nething of iht 4 : e " on the . Great Western line or on the Blackwall it 11 44 11 or e't that the atmospheric princzple had attained its • 'Peed -tar lY forty miles an hour, for he found that was the 4ttained in Mr. Steplieeson's experiments at Dalkey, t7%iti,4 the e the impediments were the last and the motnen ajlta4k t 4 th ig : tat egt• It was immaterial to him whether the op. N' to f n "Peee arose from the friction in the tube or from th 4 Vi t U htt ac - ',: t here was the effect, and that was *sill:Helen' corn. 1 111 t t • ttle IN ES, Mr. L oc k e rci d :e d th a t, on the whole, he vrt'lo n gation of the tube was likely to diminish the fro 14 , to 'r • s e C .t ga lANn ek, Mr. Locke said that he had never stated lcth saai giirnreittee, for he merely looked at the matter as a N ti t,ll)easee"ti°n—so much power lost, so much coal used, so 4 b tatb g 'neu rred. The increased length increased the increasing the power of the engine—by increettng HOUSE OF CtO,I3IOINS. ROUT A. SOITTH-EASTrAtIV On the re -assembling of the Committee this morning, kr. Norton, partner to Me. lloggart, the celeirated auctioneer, t ; s 4 c alled and ex am i ne d as to tke value of property through which ee s proposed l ine passed. ' 41. • Aural; on the part of the London and Croydon line, r. e'v to a proposition made last eve: log by the Chairman, to the et that the ease on the part of the South-E:.stern li.ie, and aort,ainit the London and Croydon line, shreed for the present he L n stP° hed until th e conclusion of that against the north Kent - , t e ; Mr. Austin spoke at some length in favour of this course. th **" . • Cocesuare, on the part of the Suuth-Eastern line, said that emproposed course would be highly inconvenient to him. 0 .„ Wilna-re thought that the proposed course would game re l oss ef ti me, an d t h at i t wou ld b e very i ncons i s t en tt o s u s p e nd P a rt et the case now that it had been partly heard. !mfr. la 11. •• . ANGHAM spoke in favour of the propo,ed course. r * y= EittEwETHER said that he was not prepared to go on with il - e •rwitn esses but those against the Croydon line the other wit i t , s rn a .a being out of town, and :hat he could not carry on his case es course were decided on. ba 'Qom, was then cleared, in order that the Committee might r,l o Pportunity of consulting. zai .'"o ttee our ,ret u r n t o th e C omm i t t ee room we l earne d th a t th e Corn !' h ad decided that the case against the London and Croydon Must be postponed until that against the North Kent line had ' lt n C oncluded, tia :.MErcanwErrilies requested that the Committee should adjourn ato nday, in order to give him an opportunity of collecting the witnesses. He lnicl at present no witness to examiee but ii i i o Caffin, who w as some ti me ago e x a m i ned concerning Mr. q,„ Powder-mills, and of whom he wished only to ask two or ki j t a questions. The loss of time would be very little, as the Corn tti wou.d not be likely to Ct to-morrow, even if he were pre se;l t ° go on with the case. 4r.. Sergeant WRANOILAM said that the Committee had almost I. : el to Meet tomorrow. in n a te some further discussion, Mr. MEUREIVETHEII agreed to .4',Tl examine . C alfin whose evidence entirely referred to the probable dan "r fro m ' the North Kent line passing through the powder district raversham; ,rl-1 rrli ne ti Sergin WRANGITANI then spoke very strongly against the 1 to Monday. tri or , e C aareataN said that the Committee would not meet to. pr oc - ' w but that on Monday they would expect Mr. Wilmore to s Ne ee d With the case of the Croydon line, and that at present no „ nC e against that line, on th e p a rt of the South-Eastern, should ! Zolittee . 10 4 i r ; M ERREWETIIER agreed to omit the evidence against the Croy. g eise he, and added that he intended only to call four other wit. Mt. l l.stoee expressed his readiness to proceed with his caw. r,' W Ser geant WRANGIIAM then addressed the Committee as to l a h a ertissibilit y of a report of the Board of Trade as evidence. qT r e Cwaters•N said that he had communicated with the Board lei,,i ad e, from whom he expected to receive information on the 4, ice °n Which Mr. Sergeant Wrangham wished to produce evi. 41 b . s ergeant WRANGRAM then requested to he allowed to call tl t i red erick Smith, late Surveyur_General Railwas, in answer tiei ' H rs. Hall's petition. He contended that he had a right Oil evi dence in answer to any petition against the Bill UERILEWETHER objected, and nrged that if Mr. Sergeant lisi a i n eharn were allowed to produce evidence to answer to Messrs. lt,h! wou have the same i. right with regard to the evidence on ee I,7 r t of the ld Croydon Comany. c nateNlAri desired that the room be again cleared. 4 4 " . attr re -admission the Com m itt e e refu s ed to a d m it . the evi °l. Sir Frederick Smith. TeeC °runaittee then adjourned to Monday at twelve o'clock. GROUP GG. SCOTCH RAILWAYS. 44 t...__XtirEAD BRANCH or THE GLASI-OW, -.'44151.4.R.N0CK, AN.D 1:. xisivivAy. , TbC o mmittee met this morning in the Court House, West titer, and proceeded to hear the evidence of C.E.—Thetiller witness said that the branch to Barrhead th e la 4 "ri contemplated by the promoter: of the Ayr Railway at 1 '41 3 2 down of the trunk line, and they had prepared plans and the i n 1839, but the pr o ject w a s abandoned in cons e quence o f 14"Pl'osition of the Earl or Glasgow, then Lord Kelburne, who s e ktio r i .:"Y was interfered with. That objection was now removed, (fir. Miller) was of opinion that the line was the most un. tv ebs kl natile that could be adopted. The dist.mce in ail was ab,,ut 4 ,ll l ;; i iir, i : and the w o rst g r a d ien t was li n 132. Th e Ni ta hill t ao, w ill end in a mineral district. '1 he total eost of construe the branch line, would be 90,000/. The project p ty l "e trunk line wou ld con n ec t B arr h e ad w ith Gl asgow , k' Y, Gr eenock. Ayr. arid the other towns on the west coast kti ) r e . , S ergeant BELLssts and Mr. MAXWELL cross- examined the N t zs. on the part of certain landlords on the line, and also far the s iv r tin g line (the Glasgow, Neilston, and Barrhead Direct line). k r. l lorne valued the land required at 10,797/. • furray, Provost of Paisley, spoke to the general feeling oh e Oh. , s listed in the town in its favour. 'h t .; ' r oWne, Chamberlain, corroborated the Provost's evidence. k nitC„ W as a considerable tr a ffi c b e t ween Nil s hill a nd Pai s ley in the Th -a ef building, stone , and engine coal. 44 (4 tables were put In and proved by Mr. Anderson and Th. N a res ult showed a traffic per annum of 10,3141. 19s. 3d. Th e clo sed the case for the pr o m o ters. co mmittee adjourned till IVl“nday. .117,1 , " ' he diameter of the piston and tha air.purnp—more than propor. iunabiy, the effect of the increased leak tge might be overcome. instance, coals would not have a very swift transmission, and in this instance the broad gauge would be objectionable, as the ra pidity of the motion would tend to chip the coal, end break it into small pieces, and spoil it for a profitable market. Another article cf traffic that would be injured by a speedy motion was limestone. This would not bear rapid motion. There wet e many points on which the narrow gauge was superior to the broad gauge ; and again, in some instances, the broad was pre ferable to the narrow gauge. He entirely approved of the ap pointment of a Committee of inquiry.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. SHAW said that, as the Chairman of the Committee, he was bound to say a few words in support of the report. The Committee had paid great attention to all the evi dence—( Hear, hear)—and he hoped that the House would hear what he had to say on the part of the Committee. He thought it would have been unnecessary for them to do so, and he thought it would have been unwise for the Com mittee to have volunteered an opinion upon it. And if it had been necessary he believed that it would be extremely, if not insuperably, difficult, because no two engineers, or professional, or scientific men, who were examined before the Committee, agreed in defining what was the broad and what was the narrow gauge, and at that moment he ( Mr. Shaw) was ignorant on the subject. He knew perfectly well that the London and Bir. mingham Railway was called the narrow gauge, and the Great Western the broad gauge, but no two engineers and no one prolessional man would give an opinion as to which would be the best gauge, if railways were about being established through the country for the first time. This was a subject of great national importance, hut he did not see why one company should be made to bear a heavy expense during the discussion of the question.—( Cheers. ) He would tell them his opinion upon the subject, and that was that both gauges were wrong. All the engi neers seeme d to have agreed upon that. They all agreed that one was too wide and the other two narrow, hut they would give no opinion as to what should be the medium width. Last year papers were laid before the House containing the correspondence of General Pasley on this subject. From those papers it would appear that the opinion of General Pasley was that a gauge, varying from five feet to five feet six, would be the best gauge. 'File Great Western eauge was seven feet ; the London and Birminglian four feet eight inches. He would read one sentence from General Pasley's correspondence, to show what difficulties surrounded this subject. Now what did General Pasley say upon the subject? Why. he says " elm Miller admitted in conversation with me that it would be of great importance if the narrow gauge were 5 feet 3 inches instead of 4 feet i inches, which latter has been considered highly inconvenient not only by hint but by all the locomotive engine makers who had been consulted upon the point, except by Messrs. George and Robert Stephenson, who first in troduced it." He hoped, therefore, that the House would not consent to allow an lion. ',Member to pass an amendment which evidently had no other object in view than that of ob structing the progress of a private Bill.--( Cheers.) General Pasley evidently seemed to think that the narrow gauge was objectionable, and yet the Honourable Member, notwithstanding that nearly all the scientific men of the country concurred in that opinion, called upon the House to establish the narrow gauge by breaking up the existing broad gauge, but he had been diverted from explaining to the House the proceedings of the Committee. They had to deal with the existing state of things, and not with the question of which was the best gauge, the broad or narrow. It was not very distinctly given in evidence as to the extent of the one or the other; but a map was produced, upon which was marked the extent of the broad and narrow gauge upon railways in existence, and upon railways in progress, or in course of construction, and from this map it would appear that there were about three thousand miles of railway on the narrow and one thousand miles on the broad gauge. Now, he would ask, was it likely, with this map before them, that the Committee would enter into a speculation as to which was the best of the two gauges to be broken up,? It was contended before the Committee that they ought not to allow the broad gauge to drop into the narrow territory. Well, then, on the other hand, they ought not to allow the broad gauge to be interfered with by the narrow, so that the same objections might be urged on both sides, but more forcible 011 behalf of the broad gauge, b ecause it had advanced nearer to the district of the proposed railway than the narrow. Well, then, the Board of Trade had reported that the district was in want of railway communication, and the only question for the Committee was, which of two lines proposed by two great companies, who were clearly able to carry out their projects, was the best to accommodate the district? The differences of the respective gauges had been, he thought, misunderstood by the Hon. Member for Stockport, and by his lion. Friend near him ; nor had the consequences of the inter ruption of " the breaks" been clearly defined. The Board of Trade said this " break" would be better in one plane—one in another. The inconvenience of the breaks was admitted on both sides—it was all a question of degree. The Committee, after hearing a great deal of evidence, were impressed with the belief that there were many new facts which had es caped the notice of the Board of Trade, and which, in fact, had not been mane public until their report had been issued. The Board of Trade could not be aware of these facts, because the experiments had not been made until after the report of the Board of Trade was made. The argument of the Board of Trade, in favour of this narrow gauge on the Birmingham and London line was, that by sub stituting the broad gauge the line must be broken. Mr. Esk said he had taken measures to carry the narrow guage front Birmingham to Bristol, having determined in any event to carry it. The Great Western Railway Company had decided upon making two separate lines of railway, broad and narrow, between Worcester and Wolverhampton, an important district, embracing some of the first mines in England. This, too, was since the report of the Board of Trade. Ile admitted to the fullest ex tent that there scat a certain degree of inconvenience when ever the two gauges met. He had endeavoured to state to the House, briefly but imperfectly—( Hear, hear)—he had endea voured to put them in possession of the principal grounds on which the Committee rested their decision. He had now pointed out that the question did not turn upon the relative merits of the gauges. The interruption of " the break" was overlooked, but they had chiefly directed their atten tion to more general and far more important considerations. With respect to the route taken by either line, that was a subject which met with the most anxious consideration of the Committee. The Great Western Company, first in the field, proposed to construct one direct line fifteen miles shorter than its rivals. The London and Birmingham Company had, therefore, besides the disadvantage of distance, the objection of circuitous route and questionable utility to be considered. The Great Western Company, connecting, as it would, its present with its previous construction, would endeavour to attract, rather than divert the traffic from the main line. It would be its interest to work it efficiently, and thus improve the prospects of the original railway. But it would be the interest of the London and Birmingham Company to conduct the line that would connect its rival with the great manufacturing and consuming districts, with negligenc e or, at least, inefficiency, its object being to draw all traffic awry from the trunk line.—( Hear, hear.) The ques tion of competition had not been overlooked in the decision of the Committee; it was another and a most int portant objection to the line they had disavowed.—( Hear.) Competition, he was willing to admit, was frequently invalu able, and the cause alike of public benefit and private conveni ence. Butcom petition in railroads was widely different from other cases ; to use technical language " side by side" lines were not calculated to enhance the interests of any part of the corn munity.—( Hear, hear) The London and Birmingham and Grand Junction Companies had in conjunction constructed the line to Liverpool ; the former had arranged to effect the same, independent of the Grand Junction, by a line diverging at Rugby : and the latter would, by the decision of the Committee, be enabled to work, independent of the Lon don and Birmingham, by a branch striking off at Wolver hampton : both Companies thus providing an independent line to Liverpool. ( Hear, hear.) Before he sat down he wished to inform the House on what principles, and in what manner the proceedings of the Com mittee over which he presided had been conducted, believing that in an assembly so crowded as he then addressed, there must be many--and he said it with all respect—there must be a great proportion who were compara tively, if not wholly, ignorant of the details.—( Hear. ) They had sat for twenty-five days, anti they had examined upwards of a hundred witnesses. They had heard counsel at great length, particularly the counsel for the parties who had been unsuccessful, because they had opened the case. The Committee had been most unremitting in the attention, which it had paid to the evidence, and at the close of the case they had separated without any member of the Committee communi cating to another his opinio n on the subject.—( Hear, hear.) During the night which had intervened he had thought it his duty to put upon paper all the points of the evidence bearing either favenrably or unfavourably on either side. He believed that the other members of the Committee had done the same. In addition to which, during the whole course of the investigation every member of the Committee had taken copious notes. They met on the following morning a n d read their papers to eac h other, and after remaining in deliberation two hours the Committee came to an unanimous decision in favour of the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton ( Cheers.) He was sorry to hear an Honourable Friend of his, who had served on that Committee, say that he differed from that Committee, because the Committee were unanimous in coming to the decision that the preamble of the Bill was proved. On that point there was no difference of opinion. His Hon. Friend had differed from other Members of the Committee in this respect : when the time came for the consideration of the clause respecting the gauge his Hon. Friend had proposed an amendment to the effect that the line should be made upon the narrow gauge. But that proposition did not, touch the opinion which the Committee expressed on the preamble. The preamble was passed unanimously, because the Committee was unanimously of opinion that the proposed line was the best one.— ( Cheers. ) Neverthe less, he had no overweening confidence in the decision of the Committee. He had felt from the first that great responsibility rested upon that Committee, and he and his colleagues had acted under a full sense of that responsi bility. It was with great reluctance that the Committee had felt themselves bound to differ from the Board of Trade, and not until after they had given great consideration to the subject. But it should be remembered that the opinion of the Board of Trade was only a preliminary opinion, and that the Board of Trade had not had the advantages of hearing the viva voce testimony of witnesses, of hearing their cross-examination, or the opportunity of hearing the speeches of counsel, all of which the Committee had en joyed.—(Cheers and laughter.) If any member of the Board of Trade, or of her Majesty's Government, or any Gentle man of experience on either side of the House, would get up and say that he was altogether unconnected with either of these great companies, but that on public grounds he wished the matter to be referred to the decision of a more competent tribunal, he, for one, would not say anything against it. He should always be happy to have his opinion revised. Let them take ten as the number of this Committee, instead of five, if they pleased. Let them form a competent tribunal, and he should be willing to submit any decision of his to their revision. With respect to the appointment of a Select Committee, he had no objection. But he hoped the House would not take any step that would set aside what had already been done for pri vate or personal interests. Ile trusted they would do nothing from such considerations, not only for the sake of the Commit tee they had appointed, but the credit and honour of the House. On the part of the great public, private, and pecuniary inte rests, he protested against it. The duties of the Committee had been exceedingly onerous. They had listened with the greatest patience and attention, for five weeks, to the evidence adduced, and it was too bad that the decision they had come to should be put aside by a personal phantasy, which certain great companies had raised, supported by personal and interested friends.—( Hear. ) if such a course was to be pursued—if that House was to be made the scene of such in terested proceedings—if Hon. Members were to be induced to support measures, not on public, but on private grounds, the sooner they transferred the decision of such questions to another tribunal the better for the honour of the House and the interests and prosperity of the country.—( Loud cheers.) Mr. LA 130 UCHERE said he could not allow the question to pass by without giving his opinion on the subject, as it was one of the greatest importance, involving as it did the cha racter of the House. He had heat(' the pre sent contest called the battle of the gauges, and he believed the two great companies at issue had been canvassing and, soliciting for the last three weeks, so as to marshal their respective forces for the settlement of the question. He was anxious that the gambling spirit of speculation which hail developed itself, of which this was a manifestation, and which was beginning to pervade the public to such an injurious extent, should be met at the doors of that House? There was but one way of successfully opposing it, and that was, by anent)? strictly to the rules which GIZOUP X. C.a.M.87Z..7.13r.12.1.41.2..11) 7..X/t7C3X.N At the sitting of the Committee this day, the intermediate traffic evidence vas resumed. Mr. Pollock, aceountAnt and commission agent at Lincoln, de. posed that 20 000 tons of coals per annum were received and con sumed in that town. The consumption of other articles of domestic necessity was equally great. The transit of those articles by the proposed line would be greatly facilitated, and the expense consi derably leuened. Mr. Bartholomew, land agent near Lincoln, was the next wit ness; his testimony was corroborative of that already given by other land agents. General Johnson was then examined by Mr. lirLDTaarr, to Show the superiority of the Cambridge and Lincoln to the London and York line. It passed through the centre of the country, and through a far more populous district; it would, therefore, afford greater facilities for the accommodation of the traffic of the district. After a short cross-examination by Mr. KINGLAHE, The Committee announced that they would pit from half-past eleven o'clock tomorrow till three, and then adjourned. UROUI' Z. THE GREAT WESTERN (DuzLzrAT AND GALWAY). The Committee to whom this group has been referred met this morning at twelve o'clock, in Rocm 17, the Hon. Mi. Clive in the chair. The examination of Mr. Leather, entneer, which was partly heard yesterday, was then resumed by Mr. JAMES. He had no interest in giving any ev dence against this line. His attendance was compulsory. He had no acquaintance with the parties concerned on either side. Mr. Vignolies, civil engineer, examined by Mr. JAMES—rho. roughly understood the nature of the error in the line, and the effect of it was this, with the Parliamentary restriction► it would be impossible to construct the line It could be made, however ; but the gradients would have to be entirely changed. Knew Mr. Hayle and Mr. Hannington ; buqi were persons of skill and ability. Cross.examined by Mr. MURPHY—Thought that even with these errors he might be able to make out an estimate for the construc tion of the line. Re-examined by Mr. JAMES—The line could be constructed, but it would be a different line from that laid down on the plan and sections deposited. Mr. John Rastrick, civil engineer, examined by Mr. JAMES— The evidence given yesterday with respect to the level; and sec tions were explained to him ; the effect of these errors would be to make the cuttings greater, and the embankments higher. The sections would be required to be altered from those which were deposited, so as to construct the line. Cross-examined by Mr. TAYLOR—The line would not be imprac ticable, but the estimates would have to be greatly increased. In the case of the Dublin and Drogheda Railway, with which he had been connected, where the cuttings and embankments were greater than were stated in the plans, the assent of the landowners had first to be obtained before the works were proceeded with—other. wise these errors would have been held by the Committee to be fatal to the Bill. By the Commtrree—The errors were proved by comparing the sections which had been delivered to the landholders and those de. posited with 'he Committee on Standing Orders. The case for the Grand Canal Company against the proposed line here closed. Mr. MURPHY inquired if opposing Counsel intended to call any further evidence ? I.llegations of forgery and fraud had been most liberally dealt out against the promoters of the line, and he had a right to demand that these charges should be either proved or re tracted. Mr. Jamas said that he did not intend to call further evidence. He thought that he had adduced sufficient evidence on the en gineering errors that had been made on the deposited section of the Comp•inv to be fatal to the further progress of the Bill. Some discussion then tor,k place whether Mr. James should ad dress the Committee to or wait till after he heard the rebutting evidence. Mr. MURPHY said, that unless opposing counsel stated their case now, and the grounds on which they relied, he should not allow them to go int the general merits of the question in their address to C e Comtpittce aiier the rebutting evidence w.s adduced, but should conhne them exclusive!y to comments on that evidence. Mr. JsmEs said that he would send for his colleague, Mr. Cock burn, who was then engaged at other Committees, and he would consult with him as to the course they should a lopt. Mr. COCKBURN arrived shortly afterwards, and after a short con. sultation with Mr. James and the other counsel on the same side, proceeded to address the Committee. He said that he had an objection to make which he thought would be fatal to the Bill. He referred to the difference between the real levels and the sections which had bee❑ deposited in the Private Bill-office. It had been proved in evidence that there was an error in some places of 38 feet, and in other places of twenty feet, which errors extended fur several miles a.org the line. In the Bth Victoria. chap. 20 sect. 11, it would be found, that the maximum variation allowed between the teal levels and the plans and sections deposited was only five feet, and two feet in any town nr place near which buildings were erected, unless the consent of the proprietor be first obtained. 1 It was ouvious that some such restriction should he imposed on the landowners, who would be subjected to have their soil cut up and carved to any extent that might seem tight to parties who were engaged in the construction of railways. In the case of the Cambrridge and Lincoln line, the Bill was thrown out for a variation of 10 feet. In the case of the South Wales line, which was recently thrown out, the objection which vas fatal to it was, that a part of the line was laid down contingent on obtaining the consent of the landholders, who were not then before the Committee. Now, in this case, if they passed the proposed line, they would be flying in the face of that decision, and they would pass the Bill contingent on the consent of the land holders, for they had Never been consulted as to the additional cuttings which ;you'd be required. On those grounds, as also be cause it would tie certain to be thrown out before the Committee of the Lords, they should at once stop all further proceedings. Tl,e Learned Counsel concluded an able address, by calling on the Committee not to lend the sanction of the House of Commons to a measure which must end in nullity. Mr. MURPHY thought the care which had been adopted by the Learned Counsel was the most extraordinary ever pursued. In the whole course of his address, he had gone upon the assumption that the points to which he' referred had been proved in evinence. He did not wait for the rebutting evidence which he (Mr. Murphy) would bring forward, and which would completely upset the evi dence on which he relied. Some discussion then took place as to whether Mr. Cockburn should be allowed to address the Committee again on the general merits of the question, after the rebutting evidence was gone Into. The room was then cleared to enable the Committee to decide on the'point. On our readmission, the 01411101 AN announced that the op posing counsel should have the liberty of addressing the Committee on the general merits after the rebutting evidence was beard, and that Mr. Murphy should have the privilege of replying to that speech if he thought proper. The CHAIRMAN then told Mr. Murphy to proceed with the re butting case. Mr. MURPHY said that, in consequence of the strange, and, as it appeared to him, irregular course which the proceedings had taken, he was not then prepared to bring forward his engineering evi dence to rebut the case of opposing counsel, but if the Committee would allow him till Monday he should have all his witnesses in attendance. The Committee acceded to the request, and adjourned till twelve o'clock on Monday. HOUSE OF LORDS. TEM 3 4 1 , ITTUAMPTON 11.11 D DORCHESTER R,AILVI.IY. Th, Committee on this Bill met at twelve o'clock to-day, Lord Auckland in the chair. There were several petitions from landowners against the Bill, amongst whom was the name of Lord Normanton. Mr. Rowe appeared for the petitioners, and Mr. Austin for the promoters. The Learned COUNSEL briefly opened thecase. Lord De Mauley was called, but the Noble Lord not having been sworn, his examination was net proceeded with. Mr Brown, a shipower at Poole, was then called. The witness was favourable to the scheme which he said would be of great auvaniage to the trade or Poole. t•-f.t.N7.3t n...S.I:I;IITAY (S ETON TO PETER.— no.movaa). This Committee met at eleven o'clock, Lord Devon in the chair. Mr. HILDTkiD opened for the promoters. The Bill was opposed by Lord Harborough and the Melton Mowbray Canal Company. THE E'i.TY AND HILTNTLAIGDON E,AILWAY. The Committee met this day at twelve o'clock, the blaiquis of I.lnrmanby in the chair. Mr. AUBTIN brit fly opened the case for the promoters. Mr. Ceowoca opposed the Bill on behrlf of the Eastern Conn ties Railway ( rpany, on the grounds that the scheme would com pete for six miles with the opponents' line. Mr. AusriN said that an arrangement had been came to with the opponents, by which he had been given to understand that all opposition had ceased. Mr. CROWDER, in reply, said that such an understanding bad certainly been come to with respect to one portion of th.: line, but not to the whole extent of the promote's' line. The room was then cleared. . THE SUN, LONDON,SATURDAY MORNING. JUNE 21, 1845. had been laid down for the management of the private business of the House, and by —taking great care how they interfered with - the. ..decision of any Committee they might appoint for the purposes of investigation. This was not a question of broad and narrow gauges, as it was stated to be by the Hon. M em t er f or Stockport.The ques tion before the House was, whether they should stop the further progress of the Bill ? And there was no pretence for their doing so. They had heard from the Right Hon. and Learned Member, the Chairman of the Committee, that it was not a question of gauges but a question of line.—(Cheers.) It was utterly impossible that the House could form any opinion on the subject. They had not the power of investigating the subject as the Committee had, and they certainly ought to repose some confidence in the Members who composed it. With regard to the argument that the Committee had decided contrary to the report of the Board of Trade, he did not Fee that they should pay a slavish respect to those reports. He well knew that when he was appointed a member upon a Railway Committee, that Com mittee had given the most marked attention to those reports, but he did say, that when a Committee bad investigated the subject brought before them, arid when they had considered the report of the Board of Trade, surely it was no ground for distrusting the decision of that Committee—a decision come to after full consideration-- that they were opposed to the opinion of the Board of Trade.—(hear.) On these grounds it was his intention to support the further progress of the Bill ; hot, after hearing the speech of the Right Hon. Chairman of that Committee, he (Mr. Labouchere) was not prepared to deny that some special circumstances connected with this Bill required special consideration. He would also admit that they had asserted a principle which he believed to be perfectly new in railway le g islation, namely, that the line was to be con structed on both principles—both the broad and the narrow gauge. He could not himself give an opinion on the subject ; but it was asserted by the Board of Trade that this course was likely to be attended with public danger. But that was no reason why they should stop this Bill, for this error it would be an easy matter to remedy. They might introduce a claude in the Bill on the third reading to oblige the Company to lay down eit er the broad or the narrow gauge. He hoped that before the conclusion of the debate some Mem ber of the Government would inform the House whether they were prepared themselves to look into this question, and to make some report to the House on the subject, or whether they would consider a Committee the preferable mode of mak ing the inquiry. He certainly thought that the question should be fully investigated by the House and the Govern ment. He should be exceedingly sorry that the House should insist on an alteration in the decision of the Committee. If they should attempt to alter the decision of the Committee, they would at once throw a slight on the whole of their pro • ceedings, and by a declaration that their decision was other wise than impartial and judicious, in dealing with the large pecuniary interests on which they had to adjudicate, be cause they were in opposition to the decisions of the Beard of Trade, they would be unsettling the confidence of the whole country in the most important decisions. It would be be lieved that this could only be done by the aid of pecuniary in- 1 terests in that House. and through a system of canvass and solicitation, and would only lead to a state of confusion, and occasion injury to the whole community. Mr. BERNAL was inclined to give all the respect which was due to the decision both of the Board of Trade and the Committee, but still he could not help saying that all the speeches were on one side, and he felt in the situation of being compelled to call upon the Right Hen. Boronet to state his opinion. The Right Hon. Baronet was in possession of great mental and physical power.—( A laugh.) He was serious ; for it was well known that the Right Hon. Baronet possessed a power which it was almost impossible to oppose; and he called upon him not to give the weight of his influence against the Bill, on account of its being opposed to the Report of the Board of Trade. He must take it that the principle of this Committee had been an impartial one, that it was a serious arid intelligent tribunal. Nothing could be said against the ability, attention, and integrity of the five Members of which it had been composed ; and when he heard of the mistake of one of the Honourable Gentlemen who had spoken, he was glad to learn th a t th e d ec i s i on a t which the Committee had arrived was the unanimous approval of the preamble. But the question was not respecting the line on which the Bill was opposed. The ground of opposition was the difference between the broad and narrow gauge. It was proposed to adopt the broad gauge from Oxford to Rugby, and from Oxford to Worcester, and it was to be considered whether the broad or the narrow gauge should be adopted on all sub sequent lines. He did not, therefore, see any sufficient neces sity for disturbing the decision of the Committee and opposing the progress of the Bill. He believed that even yesterday in the City there was the wildest speculation going on as to the question of the broad and narrow gauge.—( Here the Hon. Member became almost inaudible, amidst loud cries of " Divide, divide..") He was understood to say that Mr. Walker, the engineer, when examined, stated that though it would be for his own interest to recommend the narrow gauge, yet for the benefit of the public he would recommend that the harrow gauge should be uprooted throughout the kingdom, and one broad gauge adopted. There might be some doubt as to the extent of the broad and narrow gauge, and when he heard it asserted that the narrow gauge was uniformly adopted throughout the Continent, he thought there was a doubt as to the exact width. He believed that they would find it five feet in some places, and six feet in others. The length of junction was in favour of the arguments produced on the London and Birmingham line. It had been already stated that the Board of Trade had not an opportunity of considering how to remedy the evils of transferring passengers on the narrow and broad gauge.—(Loud cries of " Divide, divide.") He would call upon the House most earnestly, and more par ticularly on the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, to confirm the decision of the Committee. The Committee had been ap pointed a properly constituted judicial authority, and he re quested the House to support them in the position they had assumed as arbiters of the most beneficial mode of laying down rails on railway lines. Sir G. GREY said there were some particular circumstances affecting this question which he thought made it a proper question to bringbefore the House, and 4e expressed a hope that the Go vernment would see fit to express their opinion on the subject before any division was come to. When the question came before the Committee on the Bill, there was a peculiar circumstance which arose between them and the Commissioners of the Board of Trade. One of the differences between the Committee And the Board of Trade was a ques tion of competition. It had been stated that the London and Birmingham line was an integral independent railway, and it was asked that another competing independent line should be established by means of the Great Western Company. His opinion was in favour of it, but he really thought it would be desirable to have some expression of the ideas of Govern ment. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated at length, the circumstances connected with the whole proceedings of the Committee, how it was proposed to lay down four lines of rail way without making a new railway. He would read a few passages in support of that idea. The House was called upon to forbid the construction of a line of railway which had been adopted by the Committee contrary to the expressed report of the Board of Trade, which could not be adopted without occasioning great inconvenience both to passengers and traffic. They stated that laying down a double line of railway would in many cases be disadvantageous. The difficulty of maintaining the permanent way with a double set of rails would be very great ; the difficulty was so great as to prevent experiments being tried to any extent. He (Sir George Grey) thought that the House was not justified in stopping the progress of this Bill, even though the Board of Trade, after the evidence which had been adduced before the Committee, should be still of the same opinion as that which appeared in their report. He thought it would he well for the Government to appoint a com mission to inquire into this subject ; but he did not think that the House would be justified in postponing this Bill. Sir G. CLERK said that after the appeal which had been made to him by the Right Hon. Gentleman it was impossible for him to allow that debate to close without saying a few words on the subject. He perfectly concurred with the Right Hon. Gentleman as to the importance of supporting Committees of that House. He believed that no tribunals had bestowed greater attention in the discharge of most arduous duties than had the Railway Committees of that House. This was a question of very great importance. They were not called upon now to decide, for the first time, as to which was the best width of gauge. That question had already been decided. He was of opinion that the laying down of another kind of gauge would not be of that advantage which was be. lieved, and that the loss would more than counterbalance the gain. Yet, the Committee in passing the preamble of the Bill, gave a decision in favour of a particular company, and practically decided the question. The London and Birmingham railway ran through one of the most important districts in the kingdom, and was of considerable length. Great traffic might be expected on any branch lines connecting the contiguous districts, which abounded in minerals, with the main line, so that the question was one of great importance to that line. It was on that ground that the Board of Trade, looking at the traffic which might be expected on that railway—that three-fourths of the traffic would come from the north, and either terminate at Bristol, or before it reached it, and that a very small pro. portion would come from the south, arrived at their decision. With regard to the transfer of the goods from one line to an other being of great inconvenience, he did not think that ob jection had been sustained. But he was ready to admit that the change from one line to the other should take place at a place where it would be attended with the least possible de lay.—( Hear, hear.) However, all the traffic of which the Hon. Member had spoken as passing south of Birmingham, about nine-tenths of it terminated at Bristol—(Hear, hear) — and no inconvenience whatever could, therefore, be felt from the fact of a change of the gauges there, for there was very little through traffic there.—( Hear, hear.) It had been said that this subject had n o t b een before the Board of Trade. Now, be begged to assure the House that no subject had come before the Board of Trade which had occupied so much of their time and attention as this very question.—( Hear, hear.) The difficulty of mechanical contrivance might be got rid of by adopting the report of the Committee, but the waste of time and expense never could. The Board of Trade thought the transhipment of goods, as it was called, was attended with great expense and labour—the proposition of a double line of rails emanated voluntarily from the Committee. The opinion of the Board of Trade was, that danger and inconvenience would result from the proposed combination—that opinion re mained unchanged, particularly as regarded the line of com munication between Woburn and Worcester. It was perfectly impossible that trains passing along at various rates of speed, some on a narrow and some on a wide gauge, could long con tinue to run without some fatal accident occurring. The Com mittee did not expressly recommend either system. Notwith standing the disposition of the House, he must say its natural disposition, he still thought the decision of the Board of Trade the right one, and he should support it. If the House confirmed the opinion of the Committee they would be es tablishing the principle that the broad gauge ought to be ex tended throughout the country. Sir THOMAS WILDE had no personal interest in the question, except so far as it related to his constituents. He must confess that it was an unfair thing that these matters should be referred to the Board of Trade, where the investiga tions were carried ou t in private — (Cheers)—particularly when they had no means of knowing the source whence the in formation was obtained upon which the Board acted. 'When a report came out they found quotations in them apparently from impartial persons, but when they got into Committee they turned out to be extracts from private letters of inte rested persons, and yet they were put forth under the autho rity of the Board of Trade, and afterwards supported in that House by Members of the Government. He must say that the parties had just grounds for complaint. Wheu he attended as one of a deputation at the Board of Trade, from Worcester, he was told by a gentleman of the name of Laing, who came out of the room, that the whole question had been fully investigated on both sides. He inferred, therefore, that a careful consideration had been given to the case of both parties, and he now asked the lion. Gentleman if he could produce the evidence which had induced the Board of Trade to come to such a decision. The Board of Trade had stated certain opinions as to the difficulty of trans- ferring from the one gauge to the other; but the Committee thought there would be no such difficulty. The Great Western had never received any communication op the subject. The Board of Trade had alluded to the great difficulties that would arise from the transfer. When a witness was called and was asked if be wrote to the Board, he said that he had written a private communication which he re private letter in reply to a ceived from the Board of Trade. He then asked the Right Hon. Gentleman if the other side had had any similar infor mation ?—(Hear, hear.) He also asked him if he could pro duce the evidence of those who said that the ehange could be effected with the greatest facility. It was proposed to be done in two ways, either by lifting up the waggons, or by putting them on a truck, and they gave the number of minutes in which it could be done and the expense that would be incurred. When Mr. Brunell had stated this his cross-examination was ad journed, while Mr. Stephenson's evidence on the other side was closely gone into. But there were also other parts of the report of the Board of Trade which, though strong in expres sion, were quite unsupported by such evidence as was adduced before the Committee. What were the facts told to the Board of Trade? They were not known. Were both sides heard before them? They knew that they were before the Com mittee. There counsel were instructed on both side , . of the case. Witnesses were called, and surely those objections which had weighed strongest with the Board of Trade could not be utterly unknown to the London and Birmingham Company. ( Hear, hear.) They could have ine strutted counsel to refer to those objections. Did it appear that their attention had been directed to this? Wit.. ness after witness was called, not making ex parte statements, but examined, cross-examined, and re-examined, and now he should wish to know which of these reports ought to be en titled to most credit ? Whether was an examination taken in private by the Board of Trade—let them be given credit for the greatest intelligence and diligence, still such an accumulation of business could not be properly attended to by them. The inquiry was more satisfactory when both parties made their statements face to face, and where perhaps twenty-five days of examination was the average. The report of the Board of Trade had nothing at all to do with the question. This Bill would be subject to all the legislative enactments which passed on the subject of railways, and it might be an easy matter to bring in a clause in the Bill to alter their gauges, They have done this in the line between Worcester and Bristol, where the gauges were both broad and narrow. They had heard the evidence of engineers on the subject, arid it was a matter yet in doubt which of these gauges was the better one. He was astonished that the Hon. Member for Stockport had not exercised that great intelligence which belonged to him, before he bad expressed the hope that they had chosen a uniform gauge in the beginning of these railway speculations. They did not know then, they did not yet know, which was the better gauge, for they had not had sufficient experience on the subject. ft was quite easy to insert a clause in this Bill to give the power of making either the broad or narrow way. But he thought that it was highly unjust that this Bill should be cast aside by a side-wind. There was the utmost desire to give every facility to the necessities of the country. The broad gauge was proposed as absolutely necessary for the wants of the district through which the lines had to pass, and the inte rests of the parties concerned in the narrow gauge might be met by the introduction of the additional line of rails. He did not know on what evidence the Board of Trade had come to their decision, or why they should make so strong a re port as they had done on this subject ; but hi' must say that the desision of the Committee was much more valuable, fur it had been made with the report of the Board of Trade before them. It was made with the parties advocating both systems face to face, and the counsel employed on both sides fully instructed to state the circumstances woich should give that decision a judicial character. He, therefore, saw no reason why this Bill should not be suffered to pass. There had evidently been a full inquiry, and he trusted the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) would assist in giving effect to the report of the Committee. He looked forward with great confidence to the advantages which would result in future throughout the whole country. He trusted, therefore, that the House would affirm the decision of the Committee. Sir G. CLERK said that the Hon. Gentleman had thrown out an imputation against the Board of Trade for which there was not the slightest ground. The Board of Trade hail not decided without receiving all the testimony they could desire. They had every one before them who could give any inf,,rma tion. They had seen the Direetors of the Great Western Company, and with them all those at all competent to express an opinion on the merits of both systems. The principle had been fully discussed ; and they had not only had one intervi , w, but a second and a third, and had not come to their conclusions without the fullest investigation. Mr. H. WARD said that he should not have spoken on this question but for the undue warmth which the Chairman had thrown into his vindication.--(" No, no," from Mr. Shaw. ) The Hon. Gentleman said that his decision did not coincide with the report of the Board of Trade ; but he had not shown how it furthered the public interest.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that the observations of the Hon. Member for Stock port (Mr. Cobden) were worthy of the fullest consideration by the House, Without disputing the qualification of the Corn rnittee to adjudicate on so important a question, he thought it ought not finally to be decided by the incidental interposition of any committee, and they ought not to complain if the House analysed the details of their decision, and expressed an adverse opinion. The guages were to be judged of by their relative speed, safety, and means of carrying great weight. The report of the Committee itself stated that the same speed could be obtained on both. The Hon. and Learned Member for Worcester had given an opinion on the proposition of tran shipment of goods at the point of the change of gauge, and had expressed a rather strong opinion on the feasibility of such a practice. He (Mr. Ward) having had a little more expe rience in such matters than his Hon. Friend, having had the misfortune to be a director of a railway company fora consi derable time, he could bear witness to the great inconve nience ever arising from changes of a like description, in re spect of stoppages, transferring, waste of time, &c.--inconve niences so great, as he felt assured mast prevent it ever be ing used on an extensive scale.—( Hear, hear.) The real ques. tion was, whether two members of a Committee should settle this important point ; and whether a small party in a Commit tee should decide that which required the wisest heads and the most practised minds, involving, as it did, the best interests of the country.--( Hear, hear.) Sir T. ACLAND said, that if the question was taken up at all it ought to be taken up seriously. lie admitted that an inquiry into the merits of the gauges was a very necessary in quiry, but the present was not the time to make it. It was not fair to raise the question now, after having all owe d the two rival compani es t o pull themselves to pieces, and in so doing spend 10,000/.—( Hear, hear.) This was not the time to settle the general principle of the gauges, but the question was the merits of the two present railways. On their comparative merits the Committee had given a decision, and if the House did not agree in that decision, it would reflect no credit on them.—(Cheers.) Why was not the question of gauge brought up when railways were agreed to be constructed between Reading and Basingstoke, in which the broad and narrow gauges came in contact. Other railways had like wise been constructed, in which this question migSt have been agitated. If it was right to interfere now, why did they not interfere then? Sir R. PEEL said it was exceedingly difficult for those who were Ministers of the Crown to divest themselves of any influ ence they might be possessed of, in giving an o;:inion on a subject of so peculiar a natui e as the present ; and he thought that, as a general rule, Ministers of the Crown should refrain from expressing any opinion on such matters. He had heard the discussion, and he would pronounce his opinion in a purely judicial manner, unbiassed by any considerations except those of general benefit. The Right Hon. Gentleman had asked him to exert all the influence he possessed on the subject. He would, however, exert no influence whatever. He would rot interfere with the report of the Board of Trade, nor, looking at the construction of the Committee, would he attempt to influ ence them. At the commencement of the present session, he had made a public statement that the report of the Board of Trade did not constitute a final decision. He considered that they might be extremely useful in enabling Committees to ar rive with greater facility at a more correct judgment; but the reports were never intended to form a definite opinion. The Committee had been presided ever by a Right Hon. Gentle man, than whom a person of greater experience, or more fit to perform an office of that nature, could not be found, and he had informed him (Sir Robert Peel) that the Committee were unanimous in the opinion which had been expressed in their report. The opinion which he had formed regarding the matter, and formed purely in the exercise of judicial authority was, that it would not be wise to overrule the decision of the Committee. He had acted ex tremely judiciously in the matter, and he could prove it by stating that he held in his hand a petition from his own con stituents adverse to the course which he was now pursuing. He thought it would be inadvisable and replete with difficulty to overrule the opinion of a Committee on matters of this kind, and he should most unhesitatingly give his support to the de cision of the Committee. Mr. .W. 0. STANLEY said he thought there were some paints in the subject before the House which deserved their attentive consideration. The Hon. Member quoted something from a blue book which he held in his hand, but such were the cries of " Oh," and " Divide," that it was impossible that even the Hon. Member who sat next him could hear him. Mr. SHAW said the facts were exactly opposite to what the Hon. Member who had just sat down stated. The Committee was not in favour of any particular line, but would approve of the best. Mr. MUNTZ had no share in any railroad and no interest in any gauge. The difficulty was to have to settle the subject at last. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite said he would not determine in favour of any gauge. Who, then, was to determine? It was a most important question, and the expense of deterntining the best gauge ought to b e p a id ou t o f the con solidated fund.—(Laughter.) It was very well for Hon. Members to laugh, but would they laugh when the adoption of both gauges caused loss of money, loss of time, and loss of life? He ought to know something of these matters, and he pre ferred having one gauge to two. Would the House pledge itself to carry out one of those gauges without further informa tion. The question was of the utmost importance. How were they to get large trucks into little tunnels ? He thought the Board of Trade was composed of very sensible painstaking men, and the House should not lightly disregard its recommen dation. He had no interest or feeling in the matter, but would again recommend them to inquire into the subject of dispute before they decided upon it.--( Cries of " Divide.") He knew Hon. Members wanted to get to their dinners ; he, too, was hungry ; but a broken neck was no such light matter. Mr. VILLIERS STUART said there would be no danger whatever in adopting the recommendation of the Committee, which ke thought should be preferred to the decision of the Board of Trade. Lord INGESTRE said, as his constituents were much inte rested in this question, he must say a few words. He hoped the Hon. Member for Stockport would bring forward his motion on a subsequent day—it was far too important a question to be hastily decided upon. Mr. GODSON rose amid loud cries of "Divide," but each time he attempted to speak he was met by such a storm of " Oh, oh !" that he could get no further than the first syllable. He, however, continued standing with a bundle of papers in his hand, loJking vacantly round the House. After the lapse of a few minutes he proceeded to say that the Committee had no confidence in their own report, and he would undertake to say that the Committee could not receive it. After the noises with which he was assailed had in some degree subsided, he proceeded to say that the original Bill contained fifty-two clauses, and that the Committee had added fifty.eight —more than doubling it. He called upon the Chairman and the Members of the Committee to point out the clauses which they supported in their report.—( Oh, oh.) On the small five lines by the side of the main line, for the use of coalmasters at Stour bridge and Dudley, they increased the toll from Id. to lid. per ton, thus increasing the profits of the company fifty per cent. per mile, and th e company were empowered to charge as much for the conveyance of coals and iron a hundred yards as six miles. Thus the coa l- mas t ers o f S o uth Staffordshire would have to pay 1,000/, p er cen t. more than by any other line. Such was the report which they were called upon to pass. He held in his hand a p e tition from those carrying on business in the mining districts of that county, in which they complained of the manner in which the Committee had treated them.— (Cries of Oh, oh," and " Divide, divide.") Now, proceeded the Hon. Member, amidst the most discordant noises, and with a peculiar action and emphasis, which called forth repeated peals of laughter, I call on any three of the fi ie C omm i ttee men to rise in,theirplaces and say that they read th e c l auses which they inserted in the Bill.—(Laughter.) Th e report which they brought hey brought up is contradicted by the clauses which they have passed, and the House should send it back, that it may be re considered, for I hold that the public have no right to be taxed in the way they have laid down. Colonel ANSON, on the authority of the coal -masters and iron-masters of South Staffordshire, stated, that altboegh there was some ambiguity in the Bill, yet they were perfectly satis fied with the tolls which it imposed.—( Cheers. ) The House then divided, when there appeared—. For receiving the report 2 Against it ...... . 47 ..................... . Majority f or rece i ving it 134 The report was then adopted. OXFORD AND RUGBY RAILWAY BILL. On the motio n th a t t h e report on this Bill be adopted, Mr. LOCKHART said, on the receipt of the Oxford and Rugby Railway Bill, he had said that the two schemes had been supposed to be so assimilated with the one which had just been discussed that they ought to go together. But though he knew that this to a great degree was true, there was indeed so great a resemblance, that what had induced him to vote against one Bill wonht induce him to vote against the ether. He should. LEEDS AND WEST MCDING E,AILVT.PA.Y. The Committee on this Bill met to-day, at two o'clock, the Duke of Cievelano in the chair. Mr. TA Luf.r opened the case for the promoters. The Bill is opposed by the West Yorkshire Company. competing project The opponents were representei by Mr. Sergeant Talfeurd, Mr. Baines, and Mr Hope. Mr. Holdsworth. Chairman of the Manchester and Leeds Com pany, was the first witness examined The evidenCe of this gen_ titular) was strongly in tctvour of the proposed line. Mr. Scrvant TALFOURD oro.4s.examiti , -d the wi , ness, and the Committee, at four o'clock, adjourned till Monday, at eleven. SOUTHAMPTON AND DORCHESTER MA.ILNITAY. Upon Mr. RowE, counsel for the opponents, proposing to cross examine the witnesses, with a view to a projected line for the next session, the Committee interposed. and the room was ordered to be cleared. After a short deliberation the parties were called in, and informed by the Noble Chairman that the Committee would not hear evi dence in favour of a line of railway not before them as a Bill or project. The opponents should confine themselves to a case for the landowners as affected by the proposed line. Mr. Rowu then cross.examined the witnesses with respect to the injury which would accrue to the opponents by the line of railway cutting up some very valuable property. At four o'clock the Committee adjourned till Monday, at eleven. ORDERS COTt*TIKITTEE. The following Bills came before the Standing Orders' Committee this day, Lord Shaftesbury in the chair : The Leeds and Thirk R a ilway, the Newcastle ansi Darlington Railway, the Waterford and Kilkenny Railway. MEMOIRS OF LADY II ESTER STANHOPE ; COMPRIS ING HER OPINIONS, AND ANECDOTES OF THE MOST RE MAKABLE PERSONS OF HER TuirEs.—These memoirs can not fail to interest all classes of readers. It is justh observed in the prospeett4s of the work :—" Throughout the whole of the brilliant period of the life of her uncle, Mr. Pitt. Lady Hester Stanhope (who was the partner of his secret counsels) was dr..wn into daily intercourse with the most ro markable people of the age—statesmen, wits, diplomatists, men of letters and science, women of fashion and celebrity, and all the members of the royal family, with whom she was on terms of familiar intimacy. Her great knowledge of human charac ter enabled her to form the most accurate opinions concerning these distinguished persons, and her prodigious memory, unim paired to the last, laid up a store of personal recollections and illustrative anecdotes, such as no other individual ever possessed the means of accumulating. Her e. nvenations preserved in these memoirs are n• less admirable for freshness and raciness style, than for the singular and striking interest of the matter. The private life of Mr. Pitt—his domestic character and habits—hitherto altogether unknown. are here brought to light by th•- only individual who was admitted to his unre served conFtience. and who alone understood the true elements of his nature. When Lady Hester Stanhope abandoned her own country for ever, and buried herself in the solitudes of :Mount Li banon, the novelty of her position, the marvellous authority she obtained, and the masculine vigour she displayed attracted to a remote and solitary retreat in Syria, the curio sity of Europe, and rendered her an object of universal in terest." iM PERI AL PA lILIA.M.ENT. /risk: COM, I YONS. June 20. The SPKAK ER took the chair at Four o'clock. LONDONDERRY AND COLERAINE RAILWAY. "; he Londonderry and 'Coleraine Railway Bill was read a third time. Certain agreements were agreed to, and the Bill was pafse,l. CORK AND BANDON RAILWAY. The report on the Cork and Bandon Railway was brought up. GREAT SOUTHERN AND WESTERN (IRELAND) RAILWAY. The report on the Great Southern and Western (Ireland) Railway Bill was brought np, and the amendmeuts were agreed to. 130 LION, LIVERPOOL, lIANCHESTER,AND GRAND JUNCTION R AMWAY AMALGAMATION. The Bolton arid Leigh, Kenyon and Leigh Junction, North Union, Liverpool and Manchester, and Gra.id Junction Rail way Companies Amalgamation Bill was read a second time. EASTERN COUNTIES UNION ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The Eastern Counties Union Act Amendment Bill was read a third time and passed. NORTH WALES MINERAL RAILWAY. The North Wales Mineral Railway Bill was read a third time and passed. MANCHESTER, BURY, AND ROSSENDALE RAILWAY. The report on the Manchester, Bury, and Rossendale Rail way Bill was brought up. BROAD AND NARROW GAUGES. Mr. HENI.EY presented a petition from Chirping Norton in favour of the Oxford, Wercester, and Wolverhampton Rail way Bill, Mr. SPOONER presented a petition, signed by the mer chants, bankers, and manufacturers of Birmingham, on the subject of the bread and narrow gauges. The petitioners were, the greater number of them, not interested at all in railways as shareholders, and they prayed the House not to pass either of the rival Bills until a full inquiry had been instituted into the relative merits of the broad and narrow gauges. Sir C. DOUGLAS presented petitions from Warwick, Strat ford-upon-Avon, and some other places, with a similar prayer. Mr. ScOTT presented petitions from Oxford, Bewdley, and various other places, with a similar prayer. Mr. MUN TZ presented petitions from Stourbridge and Kidderminster with a similar prayer. Lord INGESTRE then moved that the report on the Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Rail way Bill he braught up. He had looked through the evidence which had been taken on this subject, and had considered it with very great care, and the great bulk of the evidence seemed to him to be in favour of the broad gauge.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) The matter was one of national interest to the country at large, and also of local interest to the county which he represented, and on both accounts he considered the broad gauge was the preferable one of the two. —( Cheers.) The House also should be cautious how they upset the verdict of a Committee of that House.—( Hear, hear.) Ile would not detain the House longer, but move at once that the report of the Committee on the Oxford, Worces ter, and Wolverhampton Railway Bill be brought up. Mr. PA KIN GTON seconded the motion. Mr. COBDEN then moved as an amendment " That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire whether, in all future Acts for the construction of Railways, provision ought to be made for securing one uniform gauge, and whether it would be practicable and expedient to bring existing lines of railway in England and lines now in course of construction, into uniformity of gauge, and if so, to report upon the best mode cf carrying these ebjects into effect in the present session of Parliament." He said this was a question of a particular line. It involved an im portant principle. They could not disguise the fact, that out of the House the proceedings of that night were looked to with great anxiety. It was a most important question, and ought not to be decided rashly, or without due deliberation. This was, perhaps, the most important question that had vet arisen in the course of railway legislation, and of the greatest national importance. They had fallen into a great error in railway legislation in not laving down a proper system for the regulation of railways. It was, however, a remarkable fact, that in the early stage of railways they took steps to secure an uniformity of gauge. In the London and Birmingham and in the Grand Junction Railway Bills clauses were introduced providing that the gauges should be uniform. But when railway communication was extended into the south of England this principle was departed from, and a different gauge adopted. There were two questions involved in this subject. First, the prevention of evil to the subject from the vs int of uniformity in the gauge; and second, the possibility of bringing the existing lines of railway into one uniform system. They were all he was sure agreed on the necessity of having only one gauge. There coul Ibe none but what admitted that two gauges were a great evil. They prof - Weed the greatest inconvenience to passengers and traffic. and would interfere with the traffic going forward in all parts of the country, unless steps were taken to avert the evil. In the 'Midland counties, in Oxfordshire, Worcester, Warwickshire, and Gloucestershire th. re was a war on the subject at present raging. Now, in those coun ties there was yet a vast area not supplied by railways, and it was here that the battle was going forward, the London and Birmingham and the Great Western Com panies contending which should occupy the vacant space. The war would go forward, gathering strength, unless they stepped in and settled the question. Not only in the Midland Counties was the contest going forward, but it was extending itself to Somersetshire, Wiltshire, and Dors setshire, where as yet railways had made but slight progress. Well, now they had projects for new lines in connexion with the Great We-tern. There was a line from Southampton to Salisbury, which had beers nearly completed, and there was another from Bath to Bristol. But if these lines should be completed according to the present plan, the inconvenience would arise of transhipment from the Salisbury line to get on to the Bath line, and that was a monstrous ab surdity. In Dorseishire it was the same way ; and he under stood that a line now about to be made in Wales would cause a like inconvenience by reason of the narrow and broad gauges coming in contact. This was a question which, if nut disposed of now, would be attended with a great deal of labour and trouble hereafter, and rivalry, and dispute, and discord, would continually be the result. For this reason alone, he did think there could not be a second opinion as to the necessity of having a uniform gauge.—( Hear, hear.) He knew there were some Hon. Members in that House who would go so far as to argue that it was no inconvenience to tranship goods from one line of carriages to another ; but surely it would not for a moment be argued that it was no inconvenience to remove loads of coals, or droves of cattle, from one train of carriages to another.—( Hear, hear.) He believed that a greater annoy ance or inconvenience could not be conceived.—( Hear, hear. ) Well then, that fact being admitted, now let him call attention to the fact that the narrow gauge was the first one on which railways were constructed; and at the pre sent moment there we re more kinds of railways constructed upon the narrow than on the broad gauge, while the projected lines were ten to one in favour of the narrow gauge. On those grounds alone he did think the narrow gauge should have the first consideration.—( Hear, hear. ) What were the objections t o th e narrow gauge ? They were not in a position now to delay the question between them ; and even if there were a preponderance of utility of the broad over the narrow gauge, they were not, he repeated, in a position to defer the settlement of this question. But what was the ob jection to the narrow gauge? It had existed in this country for fifteen years. It was general throughout America, and there the width of the rails, instead of being as in this country, 4 feet Si inches, was but 4 feet 6 inches. It was com mon in France, in Belgium, and he might say over the Continent, with the single exception of Russia. Well then, they had ample experience on the subject. There had been no accident, he believed, that could be really attributed to the narrowness of the gauges. They had had experience of its use, and its spread was so extensive that they were not now in a position to interfere with it. If, at this time, they were attempting to conform their narrow to their broad gauges, they would require to alter their tunnels, their viaducts, their embankments, and, perhaps, most difficult of all, their bridges, and that in some Cases would be altogether impossible. They might come to this House for power to do so. But if the broad gauge were conformatory to the narrow gauge, it would be most expedient. This would require no alteration of tunnels, of viaducts, of embankments, or of bridges ; nothing would be required but an alteration of the rails and plans. Well this, he said, was the proper time to legislate upon the subject. He was aware that it would be a hard matter to interfere by a legislative enact ment to compel the Great Western Railway to conform to the narrow gauge. But he contended that the evil would be less felt at that time than at any future period. They were now going on con structing railways. and they would in all probability live to see railways wherever turnpike-roads at pre sent existed. The railway combined the advantaees of turnpike roads and canals ; the expense of transit was less, an they were still going on improving the construction of them. They did now experience the difficulties which had attended the construction of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway. Could there be any doubt, then, that soon they would have railways over ail parts of the country, and were they to risk the inconvenience of these rival gauges, without endeavouring to End some means of remedying this crying evil? —( Hear.) He was sure that looking at the subject the House woul say. and he agreed in the opinion, that the report of the Committee should not be lightly set aside ; and it would only be on a subject of such paramount importance that he should ask the House to reverse the decision of the Corn miitee This was a question which must be met soon, and he was anxious that the House should do so on the present occa sion. He was sure that no Hon. Member there would reproach the Committee for the decision to which they had come, and he would say that. the Committees as now constituted (and he knew, for he sat on cue for a month past), approached as nearly as regarded probity, to perfection as they possibly could do. He did not mean to impugn the decision of the Committee. His object was not to inquire into the reason which had moved them to that decision, but still on the grounds of an impartial consi deration of the public interests, he thought that the decision might he reviewed by the House, and their resolution altered, without an infringement of the respect that was due to the Committee. He was ready to allow that their decision was, whether the House were to blindly follow their decision, or take the evidence which had enabled the Committee to come at their conclusions for the guidance of the House. This was a matter of importance, for the question was, not whether a present convenience er inconvenience was to be satisfied, but how they were to provide for the welfare of future generations? Colonel WOOD said that this was a question on which all par ties might amicably meet. It was neutral ground, on which they were prepared to state their opinions; but having taken the elements on which the Committee had founded their report, he hoped that he was not transgressing his usual principle in adopting a plan opposed to the decision which had been laid before the House. In doing this he would impress en the Committee, that he was guilty of no direspect in second ing the motion of the Hon. Member opposite. But there were other reasons why he should ask for a consideration, or, rather, a reconsideration of this motion. The five gentlemen on this Committee had refused their adherence to the recom mendation of the Board of Trade, which was in conformity with the side of the question he had taken. The five gentlemen of that Committee had stated their reasons for preferring the narrow gaugetitneiisttihueesbtrioonadwgha j u e g h : vt . Ri T h h ig e h C ly or re m d i i t t t a e h e le ha to d taken an interest them, in but they had not calculated on t he interest which it was l ikely to excite in others who were Memb ers of that House. It was true that they had considered the inconvenience of the narrow gauge, and an immense amount of time and money had been expended in endeavouring to ascertain the respective merits of the two gauges, but it appeared to him that the Committee had come to their decision, anti determined between the two gauges from strong ex parte reasons, The future was, however, so full of importance that he thought they might well review their decision, and the consideration of the Board of Trade was so important that it ought riot to be cast aside without sufficient consideration. Ile thought therefore that the House were interested in the fact that that report had been made and that it ought in some degree at least to be relied on. The Honourable Committee bad reported that the broad gauge was preferable to the narrow gauge. The Board of Trade was in favour of the narrow gauge. There were many reasons which perhaps might be urged in favour of both lines. Ile was quite sati •fied , as far as speed and the saving of time was concerned, the broad gauge was prefer able. In the conveyance of some kinds of traffic however, speed was not :he principal object to be pletaiped- For _ therefore, move that the report be received that day six months. Mr. COLLETT said that the decision had certainly sur prised him. The inhabitants on this line were not as in the ether case divided in opinion, and he should, therefore, feel it his duty to divide the House, not so much on this particular line, but on the great question of the broad and narrow gauge, as it effected the whole country, and he shculd, therefore, second the amendment. Mr. SHAW said that the decision of the Committee had been fully discussed in Committee. The Honourable Member for Sheffield had stated that Oxford was a less impor tart place than Rugby. Without assenting to this, he was yet quite prepared to concur in the arguments which had been adduced by that Hon. Member. He must say, how ever, that this was not a question as to the broad and narrow gauge, for the broad and narrow gauge they had, and they could not get rid of it ; and the only question was the incon venience to be incurred, and he thought that no places were more convenient for the alteration than Oxford and Rugby, and he should, therefore, adhere to his resolution. Mr. GISBORNE said that he quite agreed with the Floyd of Trade, that Oxford was in itself a place of great im portance, and Rugby, on account of its consumption, was of no importance at all. The Birmingham Company were in such a position, from the abstraction of the traffic on one hand from Liverpool, and on the other by the new line from Bed ford to Leicester, that they were certain to provide all the ad vantages which the public could require. The Hon. Member said, that if the railway were lost now, the county would never have a line at all. From this he was compelled to dis sent, for from the experience which they had lately derived from the proceedings from one end of the country to the other, he had very little doubt but that a project would be brought forward next year, and he should, therefore, vote for the amendment. Mr. MACLEAN said that the House was not yet sufficiently in lossession of information to enable it to judge of the ad - vantages of those two gauges. A little more time would not be lost if this question were postponed for a few months longer. The alteration which it was proposed to establish would require an alteration in every one of the coal waggons which were employed on the Birmingham line. Those wag gons cost from 30/. to 40.. each, and as to the attempt to lift those waggons into other waggons and trucks, it would be so expensive that the attempt could never be made with any probability of advantage. They might establish one gauge in all lines running to the north, and another in those running to the west. Mr. NEWDEGATE said that it so nearly affected his con stituents, that. he could not refuse to occupy the House for a few moments. The noise in the House was so great, that it was next to impossible to hear what the Hon. Member said; but we understood him to say that, as the whole district on his side of Oxford must be supplied from the Goa) districts be yond Birmingham, there would be an increased difficulty in getting their supplies if this interruption of the gauges was to be made. Mr. TANCRED said that the coal from the south and western districts was already so cut off by the existing rail ways, that it was of the utmost importance that no additional impediment should be thrown in their way. Their only sup ply now was from the Leicester coal field, and the coal of that district was of so friable a nature, that it was lifted into the carriages in large pieces, and if transferred from one carriage to another would inevitably be made worthless for all domestic purposes. Mr. VILLIERS STUART thought that so much bad been said against the Committee that. he thought it was high time that something should be said in their favour. He, as one of the members of that Committee, could assure the House that the utmost care had been taken by the Committee to make a full investigation into the merits of the rival schemes. He had himself seen, not models, but carriages of the two descrip tions which it was proposed to employ in the transference fn all one gauge to the other, and there was neither danger nor ex pense in the original outlay or the current expense. And with respect to the friableness of the coal, there was not the least probability that it would be in any way injured. Mr. WARD thought that the inconvenience that would arise from the shifting of 60,000 tons of coal from one rail to another would not be compensates! for by any advantages arising from the use of the broad gauge. He thought one of the very first objects in a railway was an uniform line. Mr. 13R AMSTON said that the Bill now before the House would greatly facilitate trade in the districts which it traversed. The Hon. Member for Sheffield had in the course of that debate referred to a member of the Committee who could not make up his mind on which side to vote. He did not know to which of the members of the Committee the Hon. Member referred, but if he referred to him (Mr. Bramston) he was not ashamed to say that where great interests were in volved he did consider on which side, as an honest man, lie ought to give his decision. Mr. SPOONER said that if any Hon. Member would but take the trouble to look how the great northern lines were carried out, he need have no hesitation afterwards in supporting the narrow gauge. He trusted that the House would remember that this was not the decision of a united but a divided Com mittee, and that they would reject the report. After a few words from Mr. Drummond, Lord George Bentinck, and Sir T. Acland, The House divided, when there appeared— For the adoption of the report 79 Against it ...... ... Majority —36 ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Lord G. SOMERSET moved that the House at its rising do adjourn till Monday.—Agreed to. COMMITTEE OF PRIVILEGE. Sir F. THESIG ER brought up the report of the Com. mittee of Privileges, and fixed Thursday next for its consi. deration. CUSTOMS. The House then resolved itself into a Committee on the Customs Bill. BUTTER AND CHEESE. Mr. EWA RT, conceiving that the House, at that late hour, was not in a position to do justice to the subject of which he had given notice, obtained leave to postpone his motion on the subject of butter and cheese till the next supply night. REDUCTION OF THE DUTY ON TALLOW. Mr. E. BULLER then brought forward his motion for a reduction of the duty on tallow. He said that, in 1842, the duty on articles similar to tallow was very materially r.duced, and the result had proved most satisfactory. It was unfortunate that both then and in 1834 the article of tallow was omitted from the reductions made in the tariff', because it was an article largely imported into this erten ' try, and one considerably used by mant.Vacturers. In the pre sent year the duty on articles of the same description was again reduced, but still the article of tallow remained untouched; and it was because he thought it was an ascertained principle that articles of a similar character ought to be dealt with in the same manner, that induced him to ask for the abolition of the duty on tallow. After a few words from Mr. EWART, which were not dis tinctly heard, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that whilst he opposed the motion upon financial grounds, he was ready to admit that the subject of the motion required the serious consideration of the Government. Sir R. PEEL opposed the repeal, on the ground that the Government was not prepared to make the reduction. Mr. WILLIAMS said that that was no ground for the re tention of this tax. The weight of taxation was thrown upon the great mass of the working class. It was better than can great adva n t age would be de o o saidre s h c l a a t s s a . it n rived from taking the impo r t. d u t y o ff tallow. r n . g NC° t E h L e Mr. E. HULLER then replied and withdrew his motion. COPPER ORE. On the motion of Mr. PARKER that all duties on 'the im portation of copper ore should cease and determine, Sir C. LEMON spoke of the value of foreign copper ire, particularly that brought from France 'hrL Chilia, and con tended that the trade of the country in copper would he greatly benefited if the House slvrald accede to the motion of the Hon. Member. Mr. TRELAWNEY made a few observations which were not audible in the gallery. Sir G. CLERK contended that it would by no means be beneficial either to this country or to foreign countries to have the duty altogether ab o li s h e d . Mr PARKER withdrew his motion. Dr. ROW RING moved th a t t h e d uty on pine logs, not exceeding In feet in length, and 11 inches square, be reduced to 12s. 64. per load. He considered that if the duty were re duced to the amount he had proposed, that the trade in tim ber with Sweden and Norway and the Baltic would be greatly increased, more particularly at the present moment, When great quantities of timber were required for the railways in the course of construction. Sir GEO. CLERK opposed the motion, on the ground that when the motion was under the consideration of the House in 1842, the duty on foreign timber was greatly reduced, and he now saw no reason to make the alteration proposed. The galleries were cleared for a division, but none took place. The House resumed. SUPPLY. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, Mr. WILLIAMS objected to their going into a Committee, to vote away large sums of money at that hour of the night, and advised the Government to postpone doing so until Monday. Many Members had left the House on the understanding that the Customs' Duties Bill would have o_laapieci the whole of the night. Sir ROBERT PEEL said Hon. Memb:rs frequently com plained that they did not bring on the estimates on the days which were appointed for doing so. Dr. BOWRING said the Hon. Baronet must know that it was generally understood that the House would not go into a Committee of Supply that night. Mr. WILLIAMS moved the adjournment of the House. The galleries were cleared for a division, but none took place. THE CASE OF MR. MAYER. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply. Mr. WILLIAMS, after complaining of the motion for supply being brought so suddenly forward, brought under the con sideration of the House the case of Mr. Mayer. who was some time bark charged with an assault before Mr. Twyford. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Williams) entered into a detail of the circumstances of the case, which was reported in the police re ports at the time. Mr. Mayer went to the house of hi s brother-in-law, who had seduced his daughter, and inflicted a blow upon him with a stick. Mr. Mayer was taken bef ore M r. wyor, T d who committed him for trial , and refused to t a k e bail, although Mr. Mayer had received such provoca tion. The conduct of the personassaulatedny wvaisolemneoes.t horrible, and would justifyalmost He thought the country had a right to know the grounds upon which that magistrate had acted in direct opposition to his duty, and then the public would see whether the Right Hon. Baronet had discharged his duty in merely censuring him. If proper precaution had been taken, such repeated complaints would not be made of the misconduct of almost every magistrate on the police bench. If the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary tapkreesnen of of State for the Home Dep ar t ment h ad not systematically neglected to apply those correct i ves which it was his duty and in his power alone to inflict.--wa(sHethare, onlyhear.) notice A t the censure of the public press magisterial misconduct, and the only protection which the public possessed. The public were deeply indebted to the press for the exposure it from time to time gave of abuses, and for the defence it invariably accorded every class of the injured and oppressed. Had he been aware that between eleven and twelve o'clock at night he should h ave been called on to discuss a question of such intense interest to the public, he would have been prepared with documents to lay a case of oppression before the House which must have compelled the Right Honourable Baronet, unwilling as he was, to accede to the wishes of the community, and have agreed to the following proposition with which he would conclude. The Hon. Member then read the motion of which he had given notice—" For copy of the correspondence between the Secre tary of State for the Horne Department and Mr. Twyford, the police magistrate, in reference to his commitment of Mr. Mayer, an inhabitant of St.. Marylebone, to Newgate, for an assault, under circumstances of gross provocation, after his re fusal to ac ce pt b a il f or hi m, although tendered to any amount.' Mr. S. CRA WFORD seconded the motion. Sir J. GRAHAM thought that after the Speaker had bens left sitting at half-past two that morning, and had since been sitting ten hours uninterruptedly, it. was too had ! for foran Hon. Member to rise and speak against time, soinetloythel purpose of preventing the House going t li o l an he honourable wouldlk deliberate. 'en detain her the had Housecalled only upon fora h i.m for f few enmaeodic-mmpureiatpun:e.L. The rate great,eprovocation housel e w a h f assault t ieeri'dark,A ihre lle armed with a bludgeon, proceeded hlValday•erli committed re ai;d, very to ;the house of his brother-in-law,t an kdnosctknendnedat him, door, The and when it was epenet, Struck at gentleman assaulted was attended by a surgeon—he had re.