The Sun. — London, England, 1839-08-14 00:00:00

EV - ENING 14_:111TION. COURT CIRCULAR. The Lord Mayor, accomi:atied by the Sheriffs of E on don and Middlesex, Mr. Alderman Jehtison, und 31r. Alderman Thomas Wood, had an audieuc, of the Queen yesterday, at Buckingham 1 3 .,1ace. M,4je,ty w:La ct tendel by the Countess of Cuarlemont, Lady in Waiting; the Lord Chamberlain, the Marquis of Headfort, Lard in Waiting ; Sir William Lumley, Groom in Waiting ; and Colonel Buckley, Eqrerty in Waiting. Viscount Melbourne had an audience of her Majesty yesterday. . . The Royal dinner party at the Palace last evening in cluded the Earl of Uxbridge, Lord Plunket, Lord G-rl ner, Hon. Col. Cavendish, and the Hon. Wm. Cowper. '1 he Duchess of Cambridge, accompanied by the Prin cesses Augusta and Mary of Cambridge, and at-ended by Miss Kerr and Baron knesebcck, left Cambridge 111 use at twelve o'clock yesterday for the residence of the Duchess of Gloucester, at Bag - shot Park. The Princess Augusta, attended by Lady Mary Pelham, came to town on Monday from Frogmore Lodge, and visited Lady Taylor, at her residence in the 114 genes Park. Her Royal Highness returned to Frogmore Lodge in the afternoon. His Excellency Reschid Pdcha, with his Secretary and suite, left the Turkish Embassy at five o'clock on Monday afternoon for -Mr. &dame's cottage in the Kent toad, where his Excellency dined ; and at eight o'clock pro ceeded on his journey to Dover, for Paris, thence to Con stantinople. Lord Boston and Lord Hill had interviews with the Marquis of Normanby yesterday at the Colonial The Military Secretary to the Commander of the Forces had an interview with Lord John Russell yesterday at the Home Office. Despatches from the Governor of Van Dicmen'b Land Were received yesterday at the Colonial Office. FASHIONABLE INTELLIGENCE. ARRIVALS. His Excellency Reshid Pacha, and suite, in Bryanston square, from Paris; Baron Stroganoff, at Ashburntam House, from Brighton ; Lord Nugent, in Cbanclosstrect, from Lilies, Bucks; Sir Edward and Lady Cust, in New ;trent, Sprieg-gardens ; the Hon. William Owen Stanley, M. P., at Lord Stanley's, of Alderley, in Great I.)...ver street ; Lord Wicklow, from 'Brighton; the Marquis of Casa Reira, at the Clarendon Hotel, horn Paris. DEPARTURES. Sir Robert and Lady Harland, from Thomas's Hotel, to embark at Cowee on board the Will-oithe- Wisp yacht; Admird Sir Charles and Lady Ogle, from Belgrave. square, for Cowes, Isle of Wight; the Earl of Nor mantra', for Sorneriey Park, near Riegivbod, Hants ; Lord and Lady Burlington, from Compton-place, near East. bourne ; the Earl and Countess Listowell, from ditto, on a tour; Admiral Sir G. Martin, froM Berkeley-square, for his seat, Leigh, Kent ; Mr. Thornhill, M. P., from ditto, for Riddlesworth Hall, near Thetford, Norfolk ; Mist Eden, for the Queen's Lodge, Bushy Park ; Mr. and the Hon. Mrs. Frederick Angerstein, from Ncrot's Hotel, Clifford• s tre e t, on a cont inental tour; Mr. Chand ler, from ditto, for the seat of the Baroness Sample, near Great Malvern; Mrs. Temple West, from Mon tague-square, for Morrelion House, Somers:et ; Lady Anne Dashwood and Mr. F. Dashwood, from Seamore- place, Curzon -street, for Mount Pleasant, noar Bexley - . Kent; Ad miral Sir John and the Misses Beresford, for Kent; Lord Petre, from Mansfield•street, for Thorndon Hall, in Es3ex ; Lady Bateman and family, for the Marine-parade, Brigh ton ; the Hon. • Sydney Herbert, M P., for Wilton House, near Salisbury; G. R. Robinson, 'Esq., from Chester-ter race, for Germany; Mrs. Pattison and family, from Clifford street, for the Continent ; Pauncefort Duncombe, Esq., from BryanstOn-sr i vare, for Brickhill Manor, Bucks ; the Right Hon. Sin. Gore, Lady, and Miss Ouseley, front Upper Grosvenor-street, for the German Spas; Sir Robt. Sheffield, Viart.,,from Portland-place, for Normanby Hall, in Lineo'inshire ; Earl Fitzwilliam, for Wilton Park, near P eterlyarough ; Major-General Cartwright, for Paris ; E dward Heneage, Esq., M. P., on a cruize in the Chan nel, in his yacht, the Sparrowhank ; the Earl of Yarbo tough, from Arlington -street, for Cowes, Isle of Wight ; Mr. and Mrs, Charles Lushington, from Mansfield.strcet, on a tour up the Rhine ; Sir Charles Lamb, from Band street, on a visit to the Earl of Eglintoun, at Eglintoun Castle, Ayrshire ; the Doke of Buecleuch, front Mon tage House, Whitehall, for his seat, Dalkeith Palace, Edinburgh ; Sir Drayton and Lady El liott Drake, from Upper Brook.street, for their seat, Dockland Abbey, Devon ; the Earl of March, front Port land-place, for the family seat, Gordon Castle, Foehabers, N.B. ; Sir James H. and Lhdy Mary Williams, from Grosvenor-square, for their seat, Edwinford, Carmarthen shire ; the Marquis and Marchioness of Lothian, from Bel grave-square, for New Battle Abbey, Dalkeith, N.B. ; Lord and Lady Saltoun and the Hon. Miss F. aser, front Cumberland-place, for their seat near Inverness ; Sir John Swinburne, Bart., and Lady, from Grosvenor place, for Capheaton, his seat in Northumberland ; Viscount Low ther, M.P., from Carlton House -terrace, for Whitchaven Castle, Cumberland ; Lady Montgomery, from Bond. street, for the seat of the Earl of Eglintoun, in Ayrshire; Viscount Dungannon, from Grafton -street, for the family seat, Brynkiralt, North Wales ; Lady. Julia Howard, from Park -street, Grosvenor-square, for Bath ; the Earl and Countess Cadogan, and the Ladies Augusta and Honoria Cadogan, from Picadilly, for Cowes, Isle ofWight ; Sir A. and Lady Duff, for their seat in Aberdeenshire; Sir and Lady Jane Walsh, from Berkeley-square, for their seat, Ormaithwaite, Cumberland ; the Earl of Lonsdale, accompanied by Lady Frederick Bentinek, from Charles street, Berkeley-square, for Lowther Castle, the family seat in Cumberland ; the Earl of Malmesbury, from Whitehall-gardens, on a tour in Scotland ; 'Viscount and Viscountess Holmesbury, from Lower Grosvenor-square, for their seat, Wellesbourne, Warwickshire; Lord Byron, from Eaton-place, for Park Hall, his seat, near Chester field ; the Hon. Henry T. and Mrs. Liddell, from Jermyn street, for Easlington House, Northumberland ; Lord and Lady Teigninouth, from Portland-place, for the lakes of Cumberland ; the Lady Noel Byron, from Dover-street, for Leamington Spa, Warwickshire; Lord Boscawcu, from St. James's-square, for Cornwall ; the Hon. Colonel Lowther, M. P., from Bruton street, from Cumberland. THE LATE FORGERIES UPON MESSRS. DRUMMOND. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. - - SIR —In reference to the statement, reported in yes t'erday's Sun, of one of the witnesses who gave evidence relating to the above forgeries, that on the 10th July the prisoner sent him with a note, addressed to Mr Cooke, who he said was his brother, at Messrs. Bard's, coal merchants, Earl -street, Blackfriars, where he received a note, &c.," will you permit me to state in your Paper, that I have no one of the name of Cooke in my employ, nor has any note with that address been delivered here, but it does appear that a note of the same date, pur porting to be written by a Mr. Cook, addressed (not to Cooke) but to Messrs. Beard and Co., requiring our lowest price for 20 tons of coals, was brought here by a porter, to whom was delivered in reply a printed circu lar, containing, our prices of coals, accompanied by a verbal remark, that " we are not dealers in coals of the description required." I have sent the note received by us to the Solicitor for the prosecution, and have little doubt it will be found 'to be in the hand-writing of the prisoner. I am, Sir, Your most obedient servant, RICHARD BEARD, A WORD AGAINST JUDICIAL MURDER. TO THE EDITOR OFOF THE SUN. Stn,—l beg to submit, through the medium of your Joui:nal, eight reasons why the three unfortunate men, now under sentence of death in Warwick prison, ought not to be executed : 1. Because it was not proved, at the trial, that they actually took part in the destruction of the property at Birmingham. 2. Because, by an oversight of those who, a few years ago, revised and mitigated the Lorrible English penal code, the offence of " demolishing, or beginning to de molish" a building, remained capital, although much graver crimes were excepted from the extreme penalty of the law. 3. Because the punishment of death, except for mur der, is repugnant to the opinions and feelings of the great majority of the nation. 4. Because those who sent bludgeon-men to violently disperse a peaceable meeting at Birmingham were the originators of the popular exasperation that eventually manifested itself by incendiarism, and destruction of property. 5. B ecause, by hanging these men, the eestroyed property would not be restored ; and society would lose three persons, who iflt b e (supposing, f or an i nstant , t h a t th e y m.. are incendiari es )ref f ormed, and be rendered useful and peaceabl e citizens 6. Because, if the se v i ct i ms ofthe State. political i n j us ti ce are is every reason t exec uted, there apprehend, consider ing the excited state of the locality, ty sp , ite of the p resence fresh tum u lt s an d greater destruction of property, in of the soldiery and police. 7. Because too much b ood has already recently b e e n shed in support of bad instit utions , in those parts of the British domino ns called Canada. 8. Because the Government of Louis Philip pe noal though notoriously blood thirst y , did not execute on, f the insurgents of the 12 th of Ma y ; and, , althouoh t h% Whigs are awfully unpopular, they ought not, for their own sakes, to exhibit the government of their " lov e l y maiden Queen" as more vindictive and san guinary than that of le Roi des ndlraillades. _ Your obedient servant. August 13, 1839. JAS. H. LORYMER. ------- amsgate A new Town-hall will be opened at in about a fortnight. The weather in this quarter has been somewhat variable during the last three clays, and a good deal of rain bas fallen, particularly on Saturday c venin p , when it really descended in torrents. The air, however, is mild and genial, and crops have not as yet suffered any detri ment Glasgow Herald. The water in the Severn is now reduced to nearly its accustomed l e v e l, t h e weat h er since Saturday last h avirg been fi ne an d warm. A cont i nuan ce of w ill we hope entirely remove any injury which the wheat may have sustained. The number of medical graduates at Edinburg h this year amounte d to 119, being 21 more than last.A gentleman engaged on our railway, and who hs s a contract a l so at Southampton, left the latter place - early one morning last week, and was on the quay at Greenock by noon the following day, basing travelled a distance of five hundred miles in less than thirty hours I Greeneck Advert i;er. THE WEATHER AND THE HARVEST The corn harvest has commenced in this neighbour hood within the last day or two, a n tnuA become ge neral if the weather should continue so favourable as what the last few days have presented. The meadows and lower pasture land between Leicester and Lough borough are now quite clear of the water. The crops look most luxuriant. The hay has suffered much ; a considerable quantity will be utterly useles, except for manure.—Leicester Chronicle. Since our last the weather has been fair, with .the exception of Tuesday . night,, when the rain fell rather heavily, and again excited anxiety for the remainder of the hay crop. The declining prices hi the great corn markets prove, however, that the alarm as to the next harvest has materially abated, and from all we have seen during the week, we should think this iy a legiti• mate effect of the more seasonable weather with is Lich we are favoured.—Leeds Mercury. About an acre of barley, a new kind, and a most ex cellent crop, both of grain and straw, was cut and carried at Gordon Castle on Monday. • • _ EAST KENT.—Reaping commenced last week, and throughout this week the farmers have been particularly busy. The crops on the whole are very good. The wheat is a full average one, though the farmers say the straw is shorter than what was anticipated.— Canterbury Journal. The weather has been most propitious throughout the week ; all the grass crops which were not mown and were not inundated will be hotted in prime condition. More hay has been damaged and destroyed by water in the lowlands of this county and Monmouthshire, than can be remembered to have shared the same lite for very many years. The wheat looks better than might be expected ; it is much down in some places, but, on the whole, it appearance is favourable ; the grain is fast maturing, and should the sunshine continue, which we most fervently deSire it will do, the corn harvest will probably be general in this county the week after next. The hops, where they have not been irrecoverably da maged by the winds, look promisinely well, but the picking will be very late.—Hereford Times. HOLYHEAD.—Tae crops in this neighbourhood, not withstanding the late heavy falls of rain, are in a re markably fine condition. Tile present settled appear ance of the weather, a serene sky, and a fresh breeze from the northward, indicates a fine harvest season.— Clamart:on Herald. THE HARVEST IN IRELAND.—The weather, we are truly happy to state, has taken a decidedly favourable turn, and is admirably calculated to promote the ripen. inn of wheat. The accounts from the country are, in the aggregate, of a favourable nature, and their ten den,...y is to show that the crops have suffered less than had been supposed. Wheats have certainly been in jured to a considerable extent, but all other crops, in luding potatoes, promise well. Considering the well grounded alarm that prevailed ten days ago, we have reason to be thankful to Providence for our present prospects.—Dublin- Evening Post of Saturday. - - HOP INTELLIGENCE. MAIDSTONE,—The bops have made Utile progresi during the last week, as the weather has, with the ex ception of one or two days, been uriscasonably. cola. The grape hops seem to " hang fire" in the burr, and the Goldings, which have done soMething better, are yet far from being as for:; and as they ought to be. Ge nerally speaking the bine is slack, and as there. is now no chance of making more, and as the pines will have some difficulty in recovering the shaking they lately re ceived from the high winds, it is not probable that their prospects will be much improved. Some of the best grounds in a neighbouring parish, w bleb were much in fested with vermin, and seemed strong enough to struggle through their difficulties, have come to a stand-still, and are very black. Another informant says that in the strong grounds, generally, someimprovement is visible ; but not so much as is desirable at t his late period. Under the ragstone hills, in the Wead district, the bines seem to flourish better, and to look stronger than in Mid- Kent. The weaker grounds are still very much affected by vermin in Mid-Kent, and in some spots mould is visible, but not to any great extent. The strong grounds, however, of this district have much improved during the last week, the burr having come out kindly and well. TICEHURST.—The plantations in this and the ad joining parishes are now fast coming into hop, but they have not the healthy appearance they had be fore the late winds. Duty called at Hawkhurst fair on Saturday 190,0001. LAMBERHURST. — The late winds have evidently dOne much damage in our plantations, and as the burr advances it is plainly seen that the part which grog: s the best hops has been so completely whipt, that the crop must fall much short of the estimate formed from the appearance of blues at a distance. CANTERBURY,—The hops are upon the whole look ing tolerably well, but all depends on the " skyey in fluences." .It is decidedly a weather crop:7--.lllaid stone Gazette. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge visited the Florentine Anatomical Museum on Saturday last the 10th instant. LAW.—During last Trinity. Term no less than .105 attorne3s and 42 barr,isters were added to the profes sion, the proportion being five to two. _ _ _ . • . • ROBBERY BY A SERVANT.—At Maryleiaone office on Monday Joseph Hedge, a footman, in the service of Mr. M.Danneti, IG. Dorset-place, New-road, was finally examined and committed to Newgate on a charge of having stolen a gold watch, and a ntimber of silver spoons and forks, the property of his master. The parti culars of the robbery have already appeared. Many of the articles traced to • the prisoner were produced, and identified by Mr. M‘Donnell. THE HARVEST.—Our Contemporaries con tinue to supply somewhat conflicting accounts of the Wheat Crops, but having no duteA what:ver that they are severally accurate reports of the actual condition of the crops in the respective districts to which they refer,,we . have read them with attention, and our impression is thereby strengthened that we shall be blessed, with an average crop. The deficiency in some districts Will be counterba lanced by abundance in others. The harvest has com menced in all the midland and southern counties, and will soon be general. _ _ DETERMINED SUICIDE.-011 Saturday even ing as the Diamond Graveseud steam-boat was off Stone house-point, in Long-reach, Mr. Pcllatt, residing at No. 32, King William-street, City, one of the passengers, observed a gentleman appareetly about twenty-three years of age, hanging over the side of the boat by the huh ark, and holding on by his hands. Supposing he had got there by accident, Mr. Pellatt pulled him into the vessel, but in doing so the gentleman lost his hat. Mr. Pellatt said, It is a pity you have lost your hat," when he replied, " Oh, never mind it will be all the same by the time we reach London Bridge." Mr. Pellatt took no further n o ti ce o f the c i rcumstance, and was in the act of walking to the other end of the boat, when a splash was heard in the water, the gentleman having thrown himself overboard. The vessel was instantly stopped, and a boat lowered, but before they could reach him he sank. The hat (a silk one) was picked up immediately afterwards, but neither the maker's- name nor any other mark was in it which could identify the deceased; the only part of his dress which was noticed was his coat, a blue frock one. THE WEATHER.—With the exception of Tues day at.d Welnesday, the weather for .these last eight days has been genial and favourable for maturing the crops. Several fields of Barley in this neighbourhood are now quite ripe, and will, in the course of this day and to-mor row, yield their preduce to the sickle. Although the crops have sustained no damage from the recent rains, yet, even with a steady continuance of dry and warm weather, there is little probability of a general harvest before the next three weeks. —Kelso Chronicle. . SHAM PARCELS. - Monday morning a man of wretched appearance was charged before the sitting Ma gistrates at Bow-street office with having attempted to defraud the proprietors of the Morning Herald of the sum of Is. 10d., by means of a sham parcel. The prisoner represented the parcel to have come from Brixton ; but the clerk, suspecting all was not right, having been imposed on a few days ago, opened the parcel, which contained a fictitious notice of marriage. The prisoner admitted it was a sham parcel. The gentleman to whom it was ad dressed being on the Continent, the proprietors declined pressing the charge, and the prisoner was dismissed. REASON FOR DIVORCE.---We see it stated that a lady in a neighbouring state has applied for a di vorce from her husband, because he would always insist on licking the cork of the molasses jug when she unstopped it. What would our Divorce Committee think of such a cause as this, asks a Hartford paper? We believe they refuse a divorce unless the husband actually licks the wife herself, which is a little worse than licking the molasses stopple. —New York Express. THE MOORS.—This is the 12th of August, the most inspiriting and important day in the calendar of the sportsman— amid the conclusion of the respite which is ac corded to the feathered populaticn of the moors. Leaving the amusement of the matter out of the question, there is health and joyous excitement amongst the heather which the denizens of the city wot not of; and the sportsman who is up and doing with the first carol of the lark, has often been said to possess the beet of all chances for life lengthened and kindly, for " there is a fresh ness in the mountain air, whi c h bloated ease can ne'er enjoy." The present season promises to be one of the mos t p ro p itious which h as been known for many years; and the accounts During k e ef the m p e a e s t t from all the shooting grounds speak of the grouse eever having been stronger on the wing or more numerous. ro w se eek arr '- i Glasgow Ott the way to their respective moors. The a v r e i d ous sportsmen passed through D and shoot 3 over his estate in Stirline•shire, as does ando 0 frotnLondon on Saturday, also Lord Douglas estates in Arran a Keck quis of Douglas and party, at Douglas. The Mar . - and by this means t e li e C k lydesdale a usually opens upon 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1: or ten days later than the grouse e M o arqui h s is enabled to take . t . o the black and red s time the young Earl of Egarrived By th at n l n t t on e sa will e have day. his seat in Ayrshire, h but the preparations for the Tour nament, where England's chivalry will be sithixtd to. gether, will in all likelihood aff or d a short jubilee to ' the feathered tenantry of his moors. Notwithstanding all that has beenbeensaid of the battues on t h e Highlandshoot jag grounds, we think the sport in the lowland counties is not a whit behind it, for. though the game be scantier, .the travel and excitement is greater; and there is not much merit in bagging 50 brace when the birds are so abundant that the sport resembles a farmer shooting in his Own poultry. yard,—Glasgow Herald. IMPERIAL PAIIMAMENT. HO USE OF Co LW ()NS, Aucusr 13 Lord J. RUSSELL (i❑ cominuat on from The Sun of y,s:erday) Frocetded to say— That view had betel practicelly suiported by many of the Police Cernmisione,s, te.etu,e there had Leen a rotest siened by 92 out cf 240 Commissioners, stating thee considered the rate aught not to be levied by them—. that it would be an illegal rate, and that the rate payers for their own setae ity, had better . nut .pay the rate.— ( Hear, hear.) He did not think the police in Man chester was in a satisfactory state, When on the one hand, there were parties refusing to pay the rate to the Corporation, and on the other parties denying the Police Commissioners had any power to levy the rate. He had very recently received accounts, both from - the civil and military authorities of that town, stating that mobs had collected at different places for the purpose of inducing men to leave their work, and to produce a general strike by means of . terror and intimidation. The police were immediately sent to disperse the mob, two of whom had threatened to set fire to the mills. The military were called out in sup pun of the police, and the police were'then able to act— they were successful in taking several into custody and dispersing the remainder. Now what would have been the case if there had been no local police in the town and the Commissioners bad been unable, to maintain an efficient police ? Why, the military would have been called out, and instead of standing by and en abling the police to take those men into custody without injury, they would have charged the rioters, and probably there would have been' loss of life.--,(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Would the House be justified in se.ying they would not take measures in case of necessity to preserve the peace, and that the loss of life was a matter of indifference to Parliament, that they would leave a town in the critical state in which Manches ter was, without providing measures to prevent the calamities that might take place ?—( Hear, hear ) This he ( Lord John Russell) would say that he was. at least bound to urge this Bill on the House; and if those. lamentable consequences should arise, owing to the want of an efficient poice, in consequence of the - rejection of the Bill, it would not be because the Government had, failed to urge this subject on the House, but because Parliathent had refused to interfere.—(Hear.) That was the short statement he wished to make in sup port of the Bill. He knew there were parties at Man-, chest, r who opposed the Bill, and he was sorry that these, parties did not confine themselves to their own wears and to their own respectable parties, but that theyy - should re ceive the aid of a great ,many of those who were the enemies of the Hear,. hear.) He had been informed that at a public meeting those who were now tryi:ig'to de feat . thi. law, and to establish a reign of terror against the law, had assisted the par tics who were ()Hosing thii These parties . certainly acted most consistently, because,. if they prevented any efficient police being established, their lawless objects would be tided, and their m e ans 'of intimidating the loyal subject s o f the . Crown would .be. promoted, bat lie would ask that House whether they would countenance views of that sort, or - whether„ they would support a Bill which was essential for the n,ainten. ante of peace and the protection of life and property ? ( Hear, bear.) Colonel SAL Vr E Y admitted the necessity of a police in all large to►z'ns, but then that police ought to be a constitutional force, and he did not think the police sought to be established by this Bill would be constitutional. The military would be 'glad to be relieved from a most painful duty, and which was repugnant to their feelings ; but any police force that was established, ought to be es tablish; d under the entire control of the parties who re quired it._( Hear, bear.) Mr. C. BULLER said that insinuations had been made against those who opposcd the Bill, that they. were the enemies of peace and good order, and were opposed to all police. Nuw all he wished was that the police of Man chester, us well as of BirMingham, should he placed under the authority of the Town Council, elected .by the.people. —(Hear, hear.) He protested against the new and alarm ing doctrine of vesting the management_ and control of th e whole police of the country nut in local autho- rities but in persons appointed .by the central Go vernment ; but whatever might •be the authority •in which they who opposed this Bill would place the police, they were perfectly justified in resisting it being plaeed . in those h an ds .which they thought dangerous to the liberties of the country and the etficiencyiof the,police.. The Noble Lord had said that the course proposed to be adopted by this Bill was suggested by ,the Right Hon. Baronet the MeMber for Tainworth. All that the Right Hon. Baronet had said was, that under the particular, citcumstances f the case he should wish that principle to be applied to Birmingham, and he had not said that, when he gave that' inch he wished the Noble Lord to take an ell, and go on . applying this centralised system of police to the whole country—( Hear, hear)—at any rate if the Right Hon. Ba °act did not think it worth while to be present and support the Bill, he (Mr. C. Buller) would not allow him to be run down in that most unjust manner by an insinuation that he was for supporting arbitrary and unconstitutional power.— ( Hear, hear, and laughter.) And he begged to tell the Government that he did not think it was decent at this time of the Session, by small majorities_ iri a small House, to carry on .Bills which so many Members of different par ties on both sides of the House combined in resisting.— ( Hear, Lear.) Mr. BRISCOE said the Hon: Member who had just sat down seemed to think this Bill was to be a permanent one ; but it was only to last until the dispute between the Corporation and the Commissioners was settled by the Court of Queen's Bench. This Bill was absolutely re quired, if it was desirable to preserve the peace and order of Manchester. He was surprised at the opposition given to the Bill by the Conservative party, and could not but . think that their conduct bore the appearance of faction. He hoped the measure would be carried by a considerable majority, and considered the Government entitled to the gratitude and confidence of the country for haling intro duced it. Mr. KEMBLE said this measure wait not taken up as a party question.—( Hear, hear.) He should object to a Bill of this kind, if it could be shown that no necessity bp e x eo is rt t keptei c d . for uip3 i u t and t t withoutopp i aef eared ri t c 3eidi cou l d h be shown this i m tichiar : td h if he te6 a ei t v ui okut police se c n cdi tidso sup_ not pass this Bill, it would incur an imm ense h az - r d, an d when the Government said it was necessary, it was not a time : in the present state of the country when he could forbear to give them his vote. Mr. HUME said ho had opposed the Birmingham . Bill, because it had been introduced against the wish of the Corporation. But there was a great difference between that Bill and the present, for the Manchester Bill had the support of the Corporation of Manchester. In supporting this -Bill he was supporting the means of maintaining the peace of the borough. Mr. DUNCOMf3E said the Howe was plaid 11 a situation of -difficulty between the speeches of the Hon. Members for Westbury and Kilkenny. But he looked to the petition emanating.from men of all parties, signed by 7,200 rate payers, composed of men of all shades of po lities, Tories, and Radicals and Whigs, if such thing,s were to be found in Manchester.—( A laugh.) The Noble Lord had said the petition was signed by the Chartists. He (Mr. 11, ) di,3 not know why they should not petition as well as other parties. He admitted that it was the duty of the Ministry and of the Howe to pre serve the peace and protect property, but that might be done without violating the dearly-cherished rights of the people.—( Hear, hear.) These Bills violated this sacred principle, and he asked Hun. Members to reject it with out reference to party politics. The people ought to have the control of their money, whether it was expended for the relief of the poor or for the preservation of the peace. If this principle should once he adopted it would riot stop either at Birmingham or Manchester, but would be ex tended throughout the country whenever the miserable fears of the Ministry of the day should induce them to make such a proposition. Sir R. PRICE said Hon. Members who resisted the Bill omitted to say how an efficient police was to be cx pHeecttehdouignhArtlatnhceheitoeursewiwthoouuldt assumes u m l3 e i I l a . - - re ( a E r l f e u a l r , r c h s e p a o r n . ) sibility in rejecting the measure, which he believed ac once necessary and constitutional, and which he earnestly entreated the House not to be so foolish as to throw out. ( Hear, hear. ) Sir C. GREY declared it to be the old Constitutional principle that the police of the country should be derived from the authority of the Crown—the Constabulary were appointed by Magistrates, who had their Commissions from the Crown—this was the general principle, to which, however, there were exceptions, as in the case of towns which had charters, containing an efficient clause, placing the police under the management of the Councils. Nuw, in the present 'case, there were dis putes on that point. And what course would the pre sent Ministry then pursue more consistent with the ancient constitutional practice than establishing, to meet- the dreaded emergency during this period of doubt, a force under authority emanating from the Crown.—(Hear.) Mr. Fl EL DEN considered it was improperly assumed by the supporters of the Bill that the inhabitants . of Man chester would not take sufficient care of their own pro perty. Fur himself, lie declared that he should feel his property iu the to n less secure under this Bill than with out it ; therefore, he should oppose it. The House then divided, and there appeared— For going into Committee Against it 17 Majority On our return to the Gallery, we found the House in Committee upon the Bill, and On clause 1 being. proposed, Mr. HINDLEY moved that the words "her Majesty" be omitted, and the words ‘• Town Council " insetted in their place. Ths Committee divided, when there appeared : For the clause Fur the amendment .to Majority .55 The clause was agreed to. Clause 2 was agreed to, with some verbal amendments. Clauss 3,4, and 5 were agreed to. On clause 6 being proposed, Lord GRAN VI LLE SOMERSET proposed ti!at the words " Treasurer of the Borough" should be emitted, and the words " Receiver to be appointed by her Ma jesty" inserted in their place. After a short conversation the amendment was negatived without a division. The clause as-amended was then agreed to. Clauses 7 and Bwere agreed to without any amendment. The remaining clauses of the Bill were agreed to. The Huse resumed, and the Report was ordered to be brought up to morrow. BOLTON POLICE BILL. •- - On the Order of the Day being read for going into Committee on this Bill Mr. BOLLING presented a petition, signed by 900 inhabitants against the Bill; and moved as an a mendment that the Bill be committed that day three months. Mr. GRIM SDITCH said the circumstances of the town of Bolton were quite different from those of Manchester, and ho truqed the Noble Lord would consider the addi tional burden imposed on the town. The amendment was not pressed, and the House went THE SUN., LONDON, WEDNESDAY, AUGUST /4, 1E39. in.° Committee cn the Bill. The clauses were agreed to, the House ri_surned. TITHE COMMUTATION ACTS AMENDMENT BILL On the motion of the SOLICITOR-GENERAL this Hill was read a third time and passed. • JOINT STOCK BANKING COMPANIES' BILL. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX CHEQUER the Joint - Banking Companies' Bill was read a thiad time and passed. EXCISE•LICENSES(SALE OF SPIRITS) BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER muted the third reading of this Bill. Mr. AG . LIONB 1 7 moved the omission of clause A. His object was to restore the Bill as originally framed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. A distinction bad been drawn betwe,n brandy and rum, which had no real founda tion, as to the consumer. And he considered that any person should= be. able to get a small quantity of spirits at that place: yvkre he believed he could get it best, v iz., at. a wholesale dealer's and not be compelled to go to a gin palace. He earnestly recommended the Government early next S - :ssion to consider the whole system of licensing generally—having regard alike to the interests of the licensed victuallers, the beer houses, and the public.—( Hear.) Mr. HUM E seconded the motion. The CHANCELLOR.of the EXCHEQUERthought it would have been an improvement of the law to pass the Bill as fist framed.--( Hear.) But after a great deal of consideration as to the large interests affected by the Bill, he had agreed to alter the Bill into its present shape, and to that he must adhere.—( Hear.) At the same time the whole subject undoubtedly required great consideration. Captain PECHELL thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer had taken a wise course. He must express his hope that the statutes on the subject generally would soon be consolidated and amended.—(Hear, hear.) The motion was negatived: On the question that the Bill do pass, Mr. M..PHILLIPS begged to join in the request that the general subject would be hereafter considered with attention.'—( Hear.) The Bill then passed. - The Report en the Patents' Invention Bill wan brought up and agreed t 0... The Real Estates Liabilities Bill was read a third time and'passed. SHERIFFS EXEMPTION BILL. _ . The Sherffs Exemption Bill was then read a third time and passed. . STANNARIES COURTS BILL. The Lords' amendments to the Stannaries Courts Bill were ageefl:to. CONSOLIDATED FUND BILL. kkot.c.l Bill was read a second time. BILLS BILL. The,Exehequer„, fie 1301 efts read a second time. CORIWATIi, , PROPERTY (IRELAND.) Th e ; Corprate , Property• (Ireland) Bill , was read a T HOUSE. second ti , .llc Sir F. T.R:E.N9aicl;:. that- in. bringing forward the motion of which he had given notice,, he felt.somewhat in the -Plrigom ,, who:was obliged to com mence the service, in consegurnce of the nomattclidanee of the. congrag,ati,on., dearly b e l ove d Roger." He jct!ggo -4. t.0 the a ttention of the House to al experi- Monts submitted to the Buck Light Committee, and to move,' tits lustr's be furnished with candles, short thres ,to the pound, in. - itead of long- threes, which give no more light than six to the-pound, and which therefore de feat the intention of making a fair comparison between the power .of the Wax Light. and the --Bode Light."— (Loud laughter.) Justice had not been done to the candles.. The former experiment with the Bede Light had proved a .failure, and .now they were about to institute a third.—( Hear, hear.) It was a beautiful light, but was not suited to the House. lie bad been ill treated. Dr. Ure stated that short threes gave a m uch better light than long threes—( A laugh)—a long th r ee gave no More light than a six—( Loud laughter)—and yet he had been put-off with long threes. __( Laughter. ) Mr. PRYME seconded-the motion. Sir R. INGLIS supported the motion, thinking the House indebted to his Gallant Friend for the exertions he had made with respect to lighting the House. '. The CHANCI?,LLORof the - EXCHEQUERthought the time (-f the House might have been much better em ployed than in discussing the comparative merits of long firees and short threes.—.( Laughter.) He would not throw any obstacle in the way of the experiment, if it was worth while making it. After a short conversation the motion was withdrawn. The other Orders were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at - Five - &Clock. • - HOUSE OF -1,01?DS, AucusT 13. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at Five o'Clock. • A message from the Commons brought up the Col lection of Poor-rates Bill, the Birmingham Police Bill, the Slave-trade Suppression Bill, the Disembodied Mi litia Bill, the Road-money (Scotland). Bill, the Stan naries Courts Bill, with their Lordships' amendments agreed to, the Prisons Bill with their Lordships' amend ments agreed to, the Excise License Sale of Spirits Bill, the Joint-stock Banking Company Bill, and several other Bills, which were severally read a first time. Lord LYN D HURST - presented a petition, praying that certain clauses might be introduced into the Copy hold Enfranchisement Bill. Also a petition from (as we understood) a Mr. Clarke, praying for compensation in consequence of a clause in the Metropolitan Police Bill. Lord DUNCANNON said the ci,im should have hio c URS said he should propose at inT th Lord struck out unless comp ensation were to she s u t s L t t bl e N be made to such persons as the petitioner. The Duke of RICHMOND supported the claim of the petitioner. Lord LYNDHURST said that, if the Noble Vis count would give a sinailar.assurance to that which he gave with respect to the Municipal Corporation Bill, Lc had no doubt it would be, satisfactory. After a kw words frOui Lora DUNCANNON, `Viscount MELBOURNE said he bad no objection to give a similarassoro'nce. Lord LYNDHURST—Then I am satisfied. UNLAWFUL OATHS'(IRELAND) BILL. Lord 'DUNCAN NON moved - the third reading of this After a few words from the Earl of GLENGALL, the Bill was read a third time and passed. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from three licenced victuallers, the agents representing their brethren in 43 towns, against the Spirit Licenses Bill and praying the House to reject it. He trusted their Lordships would, at all events, reject one clause in the ' Bill; wondered h ow i t ever got into it because it did neither more nor l ess t h an make every grocer's shop in the country a gin shop. Th a t w as absur, end he hoped it would be rejected. Lord ELLEN BOROUGH presented a petition against the two Bills connected with the administration of the Poor-laws, now before the House, from the pa ish of St. Luke Chelsea. The petitioners prayed that no parish, containing more than 2.5,000 inhabitants, might be compelled to unite with any other for the purposes of the poor. They also objected to the system of proxy voting , mentioning an instance where one indivi dual obtained 900 proxy votes in favour of his son, and outvoted all the parishioners present. They also stated that the law had not operated economically for them, but that the rates had been increased. This was not surprising, considerinv that the Clerk received 400/. a-year, and . the Deputy-clerk, in whose favour the proxies had been.obtained, 100/. a-year. A NOBLE _Loup „ingitirecl the name of the Union., .Lord ELLENBOROUGH said—The Kensington . . . Union. . . Earl STANHOPE 'presented a petition from the parish of St. 'Pancras, against the Metropolitan Police Bill, and the Metropolitan Police Courts' Bill. A siinilar petition from St.• Leonard's, Shoreditch. Also apetit the io Collection nfromlitel of Rates' ensin 13th gtonUnir and a (webelie) against similar petition from St. Luke's Chelsea:: Also a petition from the Stroud Union against the New Poor-law, stating that the rate had steadily and seriously increased under that Bill. A petition from St. Mary's, Newington, I -praying for the immediate repeal of the Poor-law Act ; and petitions against the Bill from the parishes of St. Andrew's " Holborn, and St. George the Martyr. Also a petition from the Commissioners of. Pavi ng• of the parish of St. George the Martyr. Another from the parish of Gatesby , and "another from th e town of ' °ldha min Lanccishire aga inst the No w P oor -l aw . CAPITAL."CONVICTIONS AT WARWICK. Lord BROUGHAM had to present a petition to which he begged the attention of their Lordships. It purported to be the petition of Mr. Carpenter, the Chair man of the Convention, representiag the industrious i b t o s d t y d the opini ons o f ate I classes. Of course the ir Lordships couledxocneplytrtehceeiiviecitulsiee petition as the petition o f the individual si g ni ng it , because as they could recognize no convention of th e industrious co thee classes, lfaes ; °ems 'nino°rns h a—nyn e erc w yPe i rr sl et t h e ee d inct io stiv 'as call their Lordships' 'a t ten ... tion to it. The petition stated that three men, named Roberts, Jones, and Howell, were at present under sea= fence of death in Warwick gaol, basing at the late I Assizei been capitally convicted of destroying pro perty at Birmingham they llad been committed for riot and afterwards had been capitally in dicted—this circumstance had prevented many per= sons - from coming forward, and among others., the masters of the prisoners, who would have come for ward to give them a c haracter, had they known they were to be capitally indicted. He did not complain of • this, it was what was frequently done, as after a person had been convicted for ri ot, it mi g ht be afterwards disco vered that there was evide nce to su pport a capital charge. The petitioners also comp lained tha t the Learned Judge an Agrarian todeprive others o in charging the Grand Jury stated th a t th ey. b e l onge d t o property, and to divide it among thems elv e s, an d that they were Association, the Obje c t - of which wastheir convicted under one of those barbarous enactments which had ecaped the notice . of the Legislature. The petitioner also stated that the same Government that bad encouraged meetings had, by a perverted course of reasoning, instituted prosecutionsagainst persons for attending lawful assemblies, and called the attention of their Lordships to the fac t that tw o of the oxriefended.by counsel, a n d th a t the King of the French It&l:; recently extended the r oyal pardon - -tcr 'Babes', prsoners were who Was 'convicted of high treason. ' The - petition :after repudiating the charge, that Chartists had any desire: to plunder property, destroy life, and 'invade the-Constitu. Lion, prayed the House to present an address to the Crown, imploring her Majesty to extend her Royal pardon to these unfortunate prisoners. SALE OF SPIRITS (IRELAND) BILL. The House then resolved itself into a Committee on this Bill. On the motion of the Earl of WICKLO W, the 9th - clause was struck out. - The other clauses were then agreed ite House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be received on Thursday. The Assaults Ireland Bill went through Committee, a clause having, on the suggestion of the Earl of GLENGALL:been struck out, which prohibited Jus tices of the Peace from deciding oil cases of assault when questions of disputed right to land were involved. METROPOLIS POLICE COURTS BILL. Lord DUNGANNON moved the further conside ration of the Report on this Bill. Lord BROUGHAM moved, as an amendment, that the 2d, 3d, and 4th clauses be omitted,—the Biii going to propose at this lwe period of the Session, an entiroljr new organization of the police of the metropo litan districts. Lord LYNDURST—And to give the Secretary of State the power of charging the country with 27,0001. additional expense. Lord DUNCAN NON admitted that, but said the amendment would prevent any improvement in the me tropolitan police system. Lord BROUGHAM—UntiI early next Session, when the Government should consider the question deliberately.—(Hear, hear.) The LORD CHANCELLOR suggested that the Noble and Learned Lord's amendment ought to be con- fined to the 3d clause, as the 4th clause related to the filling up of vacancies only, and if it were to be. struck out there would be no power to fill them up. Lord BROUGHAM agreed to the suggestion, and accordingly confined his amendment to moving the omission of the 3d clause. The Gallery was cleared for a division— For the amendment Against it - 3O The clause was lost by a majority of The following clauses, to 38 inclusive, were agreed to with slight amendments. Lord BROUGHAM objected to clause 39, relat ing to masters and servants. It, proposed to introduce a totally new principle into the law affecting masters and servants, and at this late period of the Session, it ought not to be entertained. Lord WYNFORD agreed with his Noble and Learned Friend. This was an attempt to alter the law in a way that had never been attempted before. Lord' LYNDHURST wished to know if this was proposed for the benefit of the master or of the servant ? Lord DUNCANNON said for both. The Earl of WICKLOW said that the principle proposed by this clause might be new in this country ; but it certainly was in accordance with the present law in Ireland, end as he had always advocated a similarity in the laws for the two countries, he must confess that he was greatly in favour of the clause. Lord L YNDHURST said that vve might endea vour to assimilate the laws in Ireland to those in Eng land, but it would not do to adopt the principle of as similating the laws in England to the laws in Ireland. —(Hear,.hear ' and Lsughter.) Lord DUNcANNON said, that after what had transpired, if their Lordships should think it was too late in the Session fully to consider this clause he should not press it. Lord LYNDHURST said, if the Noble Viscount would introduce it into the Bill he no doubt would bring in next Session, relative to the matters that had bt.en thrown oat ti s Session, no doubt the House would thr_a fully consider it.—(Laughter.) . Lord BROUGHAM was afraid that that would be rather a large BiL.—(Renewed laughter.) The clause was thin withdrawn. And all the clauses having been gone through, Lord WHARNCLIFFE proposed a new clause, the terms of which he read. Lord LYNDHURST objected to the introduction of this clause at this stage. His Noble Friend ought to have it printed, and then propose it upon the third rending of the Bill. • Lord DUNCANNON said the - clause just pro posed had been proposOd up stairs, and had been very well considered. Lord LYNDHURST said it might have originated in a private arrangement between his Noble Friend and the Noble Viscount, but he knew nothing about it. He had never seen it. He bad only heard it indistinctly read at this moment, and could not undertake off-hand to consent to it. Lord WHARNCLIFFE could assure his Noble and. Learned Friend that the clause arose out of no pri vate arrangement between himself and the Noble Viscount opposite, but still he believed the more regular way would be for him to have it printed, and to move the introduction of it upon the Bill being read a third time, which he should adopt. Lord BROUGHAM thought the clause a most be neficial one. The Report was then received, and the Bill was or .dcred to be read a third time on Friday. SLI A NNO.N NA VIGA TION. The Shannon Navigation Bill rvas read a third time and passed on the motion of Lord DUNCANNON. The Report of the Dubin Police 13111 was brought ,up and agreed to. CONSTABULARY (IRELAND). The constabuiary Force (Ireland) Bill went through Committee, and the Report was ordered to be received on Thursday. The Judges' Lodgings. Bill was reported. Lord PUNC A N NON moved the committal of the SheeP-Stealers' (Ireland) Bill. The LORD CHANCELLOR could not allow this Bill to go through another stage without calling the at tention of their Lordships to the effect of its provisons. It made sheep-stealing punishable by a penalty of .5/. which was contrary to all principle. _ . Lord. BROUGHAM concurred in what had fallen from the Noble and Learned. It was monstrous to visit sheep-stealing in one country with the punishment only of a pecuniary fine, while in this country it was formerly visited with .death,--at the • present day with transportation. The Bill then went through Committee, and on the motion of Lord BROUGHAM, the report vs'as ordered to be received that day three months. • The Bill was consequently lost. IDOLATRY—INDIA. The Bishop of LONDON . then rose to move for the following papers :—Copies of so much of any despatch sent by the Court of Directors to India since the Bth of August, 1830, as related to the abolition of taxes in India, connected with religious observances of the natives, or to the employment of Christian troops in the religious procession and festival of the natives. A copy of the, memorial sent to the Governor-General from the Presidency of Madras on the subject of the attendance of Christian troops at the religious processions and festi vals of ,the natives, together with the appendix to such memorial. Also copies of the despatch of the 18th October, 1837 to the GOVeraor-General in Coun cil, No. 14, Revenue Department, and' of Sir Peregrine Maitland's letter thereon to the Court of Directors, tendering Lis resignation of the command of the, Madras army, and of his seat in Council. The Right' Rev. Prelate considered the question to which the papers related one of most vital importaneeto the per manency of the dominion of this country in the vast coun try to which theme! s referred. nose who did not agree with him upon this subject considered that moving this question would have the effect of placing the em pire of this country in the East in jeopardy. He thought if the question was not agitated and the system was allowed to go on, it would be much more likely to shake it. He could not believe that that Government did its duty who encouraged the continu ance of idolatry. If the question was one of observing perfect neutrality with respect to the East, he should be the last man to discuss it, because he felt bound to hold that the way to impede Christianity was to offer violence - in its support. But, at the same time, he held it to be their duty as Christians to do nothing which would encourage the continuance of idolatry and superstition, still less sanctioning such a prac tice. He believed the country at large was but little acquainted with the state of things in India. In the year 1833, the Court of Directors sent out a despatch, which would have entirely cured the evil, and have rendered it unnecessary for him then to trou ble their Lordships, but it had never been carried into - practice. After three years nothing had been done, and then the question was taken up by the Court of Pro prietors, who unanimously called upon the Directors to take steps to have the despatch carried into effect, but the Court of Directors merely said they had sent out a Commission for inquiry as to the connection be tween the Government and the religion of the natives. No doubt that information had been obtained, but it had not been laid before the public. Another despatch was sent out, but in place of progressing, it actually re trograded, for it continued the compulsory attendance of the troops upon idolatrous worship. In two of the Provinces only did the Government actually interfere in and assist the worship of the natives.' In the large provinces of Agra and Bengal there was no compulsory attendance of the troops ; there was no sanction of the idolatrous worship by the Government in those pro vinces. Why should not the same principles apply to the provinces of Madras and Bombay ? That system which was good for .50 millions of natives was surely both good and safe for 20 millions, and as it was evident that it might be safely ttied, it beeame the duty of a Christian Government to put it in force. He was quite aware that he would be met with the old and hacknied excuse, that the troops were not obliged to attend in honour of the idols, but - as a guard of honour upon the native Prioces, the Rajahs but the Hindoos them selves denied that position, nor was it true, because the troops were obliged to fire the salutes at the very .moment. the idol passed... Nay, more, we obliged our CliristiatArtsOps -to do thst - from 'Which we excused the Mahemedlin troops . in our service. He insisted that we Ought to leave the - native religion to itself ; would--eots-its sitery----manner persecute them, but in no way could it be the duty of a Christian Go vernment to compel its servants to honour stocks and stones, and all the mummeries of idolatry. Ignorant although the Hindoos were, they were not de ficient in sagacity, and they actually taunted our mis sionaries with the honours paid to their degrading cere monies. The last complaint he had to make was a most important one. In consequence of one of our sepoys being killed at an attendance upon their idols, Sir Ro bert O'Callaghan, with his Council, issued an order that no troops were to attend such ceremonies in future, ex cept a mere guard of honour for the Rajah. When Sir P. Maitland was about to proceed to India to take the command of the army, he was informed by the Chairman of the Directors that the Board over which he presided wished India governed upon the principles contained in the despatch of 1833. Haring that despatch—ha%ing also the opinion of the Chairman of the Court of Di rectors and meeting, with the order of Sir Robert O'Cal laghan, was it possible that he could for a moment sup. pose he would be found fault with by the Home Go vernment for acting upon them. Yet so it was ; orders were sent out to him which he could not conscientiously put in force, and he tendered his resignation, which was accepted ; but the public, in justice to that Gallant Officer, ought to be made aware of the reasons which induced him to take such an ex• treme course as to abandon a command entrusted to him by the Government, and his motion would ask for a copy of the letter in which he placed the appointment in the hands of the Board of Directors. While speaking thus of the conduct of the India Government he was bound to say they had made one step towards the object all must have in view, for they had in one instance given directions for the discontinuance of the pil grim tax. In consequence of the superstition of the Indians, the atrocities committed under the name of religion in India were frightful, it tended to the entire degradation of the character of the natives, and they were proverbial for their disregard of truth and honour, and no testimony given by a native in courts of justice could be relied on. All that was the effect of superstition. He thought the Government ought to take all the means in their power to lead them to embrace a holier and happier religion, which would promote their prosperity here as w(11 as th e i r h app i ness hereafter ; and they ought not to be led to think it was a matter of indifference to this country whether they embraced the true teligioa or continued in the practice of idolatory.—(Hear, hear.) He could not conceive there could be any objection to his motion except on the ground of expediency.—(Hear, hear.) If we continued to be masters of a hundred million of human beings at the sacrifice of our own religion, the sooner we gave it up the better. His opinion was, that all attempts to retain it would be vain, for he did not be lieve that that merciful Providence which had intrusted us with that vast empire, would allow us to continue in possession of it for the purpose of making it the domi- Lion of Satan, when it was given us for the purpose of extending religion.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The Right Rev. Prelate concluded by submitting the motion of which he had given notice. Viscount MELBOURNE was as deeply impressed the awful importance of this subject as the Right Rev. Prelate could be. He was also deeply impressed with its importance to the character of this country, of its importance to the great spiritual and future interests concerned in it, as well as the great present interests of this country, and to the stability of that vast empire over which we possessed dominion. He agreed entirely with the Right Rev. Prelate, that every respect should be shown to the religion of the country ; that no insult or disrespect should be offered, while at the same time no unnecessary respect and no undue honour was tendered, and that. all practices which could give to those religions any unnecessary or undue encou ragement should be carefully abstained from. He would not therefore enter into a general consideration of the question, because he hoped that on those gene ral principles they were all agreed. It was with very great concern that he learned the Right Rev. Prelate did not consider the pledge which Government hi d given on a former occasion had not been fulfilled, be cause, as far as he (Lord Mlbourne) understood the evils complained of by the Right Rev. Prelate, it ap peared to him that the despatch which had been scut out, and the instructions given to the Governor. General of India did not, in fact, proceed entirely on the princi ples which had been laid down by the Right Rev. Pre late, and did carry out those intentions which all pro fessed a wish to see effected. In compliance with the instructions that had been sent out, he believed the pilgrim tax had been already discontinued in some parts, and that the Government were proceed. ing with a view to its entire discontinuance. The Right Rev. Prelate had said—" You manage the funds of the Pagodas in India, why do you not entirely discontinue that support, and leave them to the management of their own priests, to the collection of their own revenues and the settlement of their own affairs?" Why in 'the dispatch, to which allusion had been made, there was this passage—" We more particularly desire the ma nagement of all temples and other places of religious resource, together with the revenue therefrom, be in signed into the hands of the natives, and that the re- terferenee of the public authorities in' the religious cere monies of the people be regulated by the instructions contained in the 61.'d paragraph of a dispatch of the 20th February, 1833." With respect to the observa tions which the Right Rev. Prelate had made as to the employment of troops in religious processions, all he (Lord Melbourne) would observe was, that respect was paid to the person Whose. rank and station demanded such a mark of tribute and respect, and not to the oc casion. —(Hear, hear.) And he thought it would, not be very wise or prudent to discontinue that respect.— (Hear, hear.) Although, undoubtedly, as the Right Rev. Prelate had said, we ought to regard the con sciences of our own troops and the respect due to our own religion, yet, at the same time, they ought to act consistently with those dictates _of pru- dence, the violation of which might sacrifice and endanger the ultimate interests, not only of the country but of religion itself.--(Hear, hear.) He bad certainly hoped that the principles on which that dis patch were founded, and the measures taken, would have been satisfactory to the Rev. Prelate. He was sorry to find they were not so, but he was glad to think there were no tuck material differences between them as might not be reconciled by further consideration.— ( Hear.) With respect to the motion of the Right Rev. Prelate, he had no objection to the papers mentioned in the two first paragraphs, because they had already been laid before the other House of Parliament. The dis patch of the 18th of October, 1837, had not yet been laid before Parliament, but he had no objection to its production ; still, considering that was the letter of a General Officer, stating his reasons for the resignation of his command, he would put it to their Lordships whether it would be prudent or wise to press for that document. No charge had been brought against that General Officer, and there was nothing that called for a vindication of his character. The Bishop of LONDON would not press for that paper, after what the Noble Viscount had said. Lord BROUGHAM .was sure that every one must be most grateful to the Right Reverend Prelate for the very able and acute manner in which he bad introduced this subject, but the charge which the Right Reverend Prelate had made, that no native could be believed on his oath, was of rather.a sweeping description, and he was sure the Right Reverend Prelate did not mean to carry it to the extent his words would imply. _ There were many persons in India, whom he could assure their Lordships, knowing it from his attendance in the Ju dicial Committees of the Privy Council, were as much to be believed on their oaths, or even their bare words, as any of their Lordships. The Bishop of LONDON explained. • The Duke of RICHMOND agreed with the Right Reverend Prelate, that it was impossible to keep that great empire under our dominion if we did not endea vour to wean the nativesfrom their horrible superstitious practices. Sir Peregrine Maitland had only endea voured to carry out the instructions which he had re ceived, and he (the Duke of Richmond) could not understand the Conduct of the Board of Directors who said they would carry out the the dispatch of 1t:333, but who accepted the resignation of Sir Peregrine Mait land only because they refused tocarry out that dispatch. —(Hear, hear.) He thought their Lordships ought fully to know the grounds on which that Gallant Officer's resignation was accepted. He felt grateful to the Most Rev. Prelate for the man ner in which he had brought forward the subject. The Duke of WELLINGTON said that when he was in India, the army, with the exception of about 50,000 British troops, consisted of idolaters. They were as good soldiers as could be found anywhere. They per formed the best services that could be required from them, and at that time the object of the Government, and of every man concerned in s erving the Govern ment was, to avoid not only to interfere, but to appear to interfere, in any manner whatever in the idolatrous religion of the natives of that country. He had not seen any of these dispatches, and knew nothing of them, except from the discussion which he had heard, L or dships never to lose sight of these He begged their Lordshi facts. He had seen Missionaries at work, and the no progress which they ha jealousy. He wa rne d t h e had made, and that they create d a was of gre a t i mportance Government considerable th adegthat o r l e a e t of empire to this country, and we must not expect to convert these hundred millions of idolaters to our holy reli gion by the small means in our power. With respect to what had been said of the Gallant Officer who re cently com manded there, he no doubt resigned his command, as any other honourable man would have done, because he could not perform that which was required of him. Under these circumstances he thought the Noble Viscount was quite right in refusing to . pro duce the dispatch. The Bishop of LONDON replied,stattn,g that after what had been said by the Noble Duke be should not press for the dispatch which was objected to. After a few remarks Lord from LISMORE in of Sirde fence Pezegrinc Maitland, the other-dispatches were ordered. ADMIRALTY COURT BILL. • On the Order of the Day beinir relictfor the Meuse going - into Committee on the Admiralty Court Bill, R‘rENTING RRITION. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the Bill vvzs so simple in its nature that he should . be able to state very shortly its object. This Court was not only important in time of war, but it had most important duties to perform in time of peace, although those duties were tien comparatively light. It was of importance there should be a Judge in the Admiralty Court ready to undertake the duties of that Court in thcs event of war breaking out, and the authority which that Court justly possessed hal been obtained by having at the head of it men of the greatest learning and ability, who had devoted themselves to the law of this and of other countries. To maintain the high character of the Court was a paramount duly with the Legislature of this country, and he wished to impress their Lordships with the importance of adopting such regulations to maintain the Court in the time of peace as would secure its efficacy in the event of war breaking out. The duties of the Admiralty Court were the most important that could be performed by a civilian. He would call their Lordships' attention to the opinions of Sir John Nicholl and Sir Herbert Jenner, who said that there were matters of great importance before the Admiralty Court for adjudication in a national point of view, because the questions there decided might have a tendency to involve this country in war with other nations. Now, that being so, he would state how ' that Court was constituted as to the remuneration of the important officers that conducted the busi ness of the Court. The office of Judge was certainly that of the most importance. But there were two other officers, the Register and the Marshal. In former times the income of the Judge was paid almost entirely by fees. The income, as it now stood, was 2,500/. a-year ; but if a war were to break out the Judge would have, in addition to the salary, certain fees, which would arise from the business transacted ; aad it appeared from the evidence of Sir John Nicholl, that at one period the income amounted to 5,700/, and in another series of years to 5,8001. He did not believe that any Judge would involve the country in a war in order to increase his fees. His object now was not to guard against that, but to show the importance of the question before their Lordships. There was a great difference between the income in the time of war and in the time of peace. In the time of war he did not think it too large. It was quite obvious that the nature of the duties required a permanent esta blishment during peace as well as war, and the salary should be so fixed as to enable the country to command the services of the most experienced and able men. The present 8 , 11 proposed to abolish all fees, and to give a permanent salary of 4,000/. a-year, being considerably less than that re ceived by the puisne judges of the country. The dis p irity between the income and fees of the Register was still more striking. In time of war the income amounted to 12,000/., and in time of peace to 100/. But it was - essectiAl to have an officer of that character. The Bill proposed that he should have 1,400/. a year in time of peace, and there would be a power to raise that in case of war, by the Government, on the application of the Judge, to an amount not exceeding 2,000/. a year. But the Bill had still more important objects ; it proposed to add in some respects to the Court's jurisdiction, and im prove the machinery for the' performance of its duties. There were many matters over which the Court had now only a limited jurisdiction, and with respect to which great inconvenience was consequently felt ; for instance, the Court could decide, with regard to a ves sel, points between owner and captain, but could not adjudicate on questions of title. So as to seamen's wages—when there was any contract, particularly if sealed, the Court had no jurisdiction. In such cases the Bill would extend the power of the Court. It was proposed also to give the Court power to adjudicate on cases of booty, when referred to it. With respect to evidence, facilities were given for the examination of witnesses viva voce. Lord LYNDHURST said be agreed entirely that the Bill was one of great importance, and'connected with a subject of great intricacy and difficulty ; and he thought he could satisfy their Lordships that a Bill in volving so many considerations was not a fit measure to be discussed at this period of the Session. The parties themselves who had introduced the Bill were of that opinion evidently, for it was founded on the Report of a Committee of the House of Com mons, made so far back as 1833—six years ago— (Hear, hear)—it had not been committed till July 1.5, and came before their Lordships on the 6th August.— (Hear, hear.) Could such a Bill be discussed, either, in the absence of the Noble Lords who presided over the Courts of Law ?—(Hear, hear.) There were some points, in the Bill to which (though he• assented to the amount of the Judges' salary) he entirely objected— particularly to giving the Court of Admiralty power to decide questions on contracts for seamen's wages. 'No thing could be more summary and effective than the Common Law proceedings in those cases, which were promptly decided by a jury, whereas, in the Ad miralty Court, the expense was enormous. In one case lately occurring, a mate, who had grossly misconducted himself, sued the Captain for 70/. wages, refused on .• account of that misconduct. The captain succeeded. He had, however, to pay 180/. costs.—( Hear, hear.) The mate, nevertheless, ap pealed, the original judgment *as afHrmed, but the unfortunate Captain had to pay, in the whole, 3901. costs.—(Hear, hear.) Believing that the extensive and momentous points connected with this' Bill could not at this late period of the Session be justly and properly discussed, he moved that it be committed that day three months. Lord .I3ROUG HAM said he had repeatedly urged the Government to bring forward a measure - remming the Court of Admiralty from that odious position which it at present occupied, of being paid by a casual vote in the Navy Estimates. But he considered that the Judge, as he was independent of . the Crown, should be equally independent of party contests in the House of Commons.—( Hear, hear.) He would just observe as to the salary, that 4,0001. for twenty eight days' work was the best office in the country ; considering too that the other ten or eleven months in the year the Judge might devote himself to the work of a political partisan ; and this he would say, that there was not a more regular—a more constant—a more zealous—a more useful—and, to the Treasury, a more available member of his party than his Right Hon., excellent, and Learned Friend, the Judge of this Court —(Hear, hear)—Member for the Tower Hamlets, from which most of the cases he would have to try would issue—Member of the House of Commons, en gaged in political debates, often connected with the subject matter on which he would have to decide—one of the authors, for instance, of the Portuguese Slave Bill, the questions under which must come before him for judgment, and how would the Portuguese believe that they had a fair trial ? The Bill also gave the Judge a great extent of patronage, which was most objectionable. Under all these circumstances he thought the Bill far too important to be discussed in the last week of the Session.—(A Peer—" Is it the last ?") He trusted that it was—(Laughter)—and be therefore supported the proposition of his Noble and Learned Friend. Lord LYNDHURST observed that the Learned Judge of this Court had himself described the office as that of a political Judge. To make it that of a party Judge was monstrous.—(Hear.) Lord WYN FORD was very inaudible. He made the same objection to this Bill that he had done to a Bill the other day, that it would send causes for trial to the Admiralty Court before there was any machinery provided for trying them. He thought the Bill ought to be referred to a Committee up stairs, as these altera tions ought not to be decided on without deliberation ; he would, therefore, support the amendment of his Noble and Learned Friend. Viscount MELBOURNE was not surprised at the Noble and Learned Lords on the other side the House objecting to this Bill, but he was surprised at his Noble and Learned Friend—indeed his Noble and Learned Friend seemed almost surprised at himself; and urged his opposition as if he was almost ash amed of . (Hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord had, dur ing nearly half the Session, urged the want of this Bill, and bad repeatedly said that it was scandalous that the Judge of the Admiralty Court should be paid by a vote of the House of Commons ; and when a meas'ire was proposed to remedy . these evils the N o bl e an d L earne d Lord objected to I t : The Noble Lord had urged in de fence of his opposition the lateness of the Session, and he also objected to the Bill th a t i t con fe rre d patronage o n the Judge. It might be said that a Judge ought not to possess any patronage ; but if the possession of it was so •e i t r u y aobjectionable,tnof the Noble l and Learnedod when l eeouldnotbutpitie r xeeedingly the she sat upon the Woolsack, as he then certainly possessed the largest share of patronage of any man in the country. ----(Cheers an d l aug h ter. ) I t was a l so urge d as an ob jection that th e J u d ge was t o ma k e rules for the regula tion of his Court. Did not all Judges make rules for the regulation of their Court's ? But the great objection of all seemed to be the omission of a clause preventing the Judge from sitting in the House of Commons. Indeed he had said he never would consent to the Bill,unless the Judge were excluded from the House of Commons. He was greatly surprised to hear the Noble and Learned Lord opposite adopting this objection. The Judge . of the Admiralty Court had hitherto always been eligib.le to a seat in the House of Commons, and he thought was advantageous to have him in that situation, as his pre sence might be calculated to impart a g ravity to the deliberations of that House , wh ich the Noble and Learned Lord might perhaps be of o p inion had been wanting on some occasions.—( Hear, from Lord Lynd hurst.) Tiiis Judge was conversant with the law of nations, and w ith the laws of other countries ; and the information he was ena bled to afford might frequently be of great assistance to the deliberations of th e H ouse of Commons. The principle of the Constitution was not that of the exclusion of the Judges from.the House of Commons. The Judges of Westminster Hall were excluded because they were considered as servants to their Lordships, but not on any ot h er pr i nc i p l e ; and a lthough be certainly would not make there eligible now, he would not wish to extend the principle" of exclusion any further. The Noble . and Learned - Lord seemed to I think it improper that a Judge should represent a I large constituency. A small constituency, accord.