The Sun. — London, England, 1844-02-13 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, FEBRUARY 13, 1844. comprehensive, my Lord, as the first included all the others. The Crown Clerk—On the fourth count you say D. O'Connell, J. O'Connell, T. M. Ray, J. Gray, T. Steele, C. G. Duffy, and R. Barrett are guilty. On the fith you say D. O'Connell, T. M. Ray, T. Steele, C. G. Duffy, and the Rev. T. Tierney are guilty. On the sixth there' is no finding. On the seventh all but Mr. Tierney guilty. There is no finding en the eighth or ninth counts. On the tenth you have found D. O'Connell, J. O'Connell, T. M. Ray, J. Gray, T. Steele, C. G. Duffy, and R. Barrett are guilty. On the 11th there is no finding, but only the foreman's signature. Mr. Justice CRA.MPTON — This verdict is imperfect, RS I take it, Gentlemen, and you must have it returned 'to you. You have named certain traversers as guilty in some counts, not naming the others ; now, you ought to say " not guilty" to those whose names you have omitted. With respect to those counts on which you have made no finding, you should state whether you are agreed or not, or whether you think the traversers, or any of them, guilty or not guilty, stating the names in each case respectively. With respect to those whom you have not named, you must state that you find the traversers not guilty, if it be your intention so to find, or if your meaning in passing them by is that you are not agreed you must so state it. Now, in the first count, you should state on how much of it you find the traversers or any of them guilty or not guilty, naming each on both findings. The Foreman said, that they thought the first count tic) comprehensive. Judge CRAMPTON and the ATTORNEY•GENERAL instructed the jury that the first count entertained all the charges of the indictment, and that the others merely took it to pieces. A Juror—Will it be enough, then, to say " not guilty," if we do not find the traversers guilty of all ? Mr. Justice CRAMPTON—Certainly not, but to so much of it only as you do not find the traversers guilty of. At this moment a tremendous burst of cheering from the mob outside, repeated again and again, broke in upon the silence of the Court. Some prac tical joker had told them that O'Connell was acquit ted, but the High Sheriff ordered the police to clear the hall, if it were repeated. Mr. Justice CRAMPTON continued—lf you are not agreed as to any of the traversers you must so state it, and mention their names. Mr. Floyd, a juror—My Lord, we are all agreed. There is no difference of opinion among us, and it is merely as to the wording of the findings that we are not sure.—(Sensation in the Court.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was about addressing the Court, when Mr. MOORE, interrupting him, exclaimed—Pray; let the jury retire, Mr. Attorney, before you speak. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that other counsel had addressed the Bench while the jury were in Court, and (the jury having retired) continued to make some observations on the first count, which he wished to have laid before the jurors. Mr. Justice CRAMPTON said he had already ex plained the nature of that count to them. Mr. Mooas said that he had, on the part of the traversers, to object to the directions which he under stood his Lordship to have given to the jury, on the ground that he had directed them to give a finding on every count, whereas they could not do so on those whereon they were not agreed. Mr. Justice CRAMPTON—They do not disagree on any part, Mr. Moore. Some further discussion ensued upon this point, when, at a few minutes before 12 o'clock, The ATTORNEY-GENERAL , rose and said, that he thought that the Court should be adjourned till Mon day morning, as after 12 o'clock on Saturday night he apprehended that the verdict could not be received by the Court. He therefore thought it right to state that he thought the Court should adjourn. Mr. Justice CRAMPTON, observing that it was not 12 o'clock, directed the jury to be summoned at once, and asked was it quite certain that the verdict could not he received after that hour ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL in reply said, that in a case of such importance, for fear any doubt should arise, he certainly did think the Court should adjourn. The Jury entered their box, and the foreman said that they were not yet quite ready. Mr. Justice CRAMPTON advised them to be in a hurry, as it was close to twelve o'clock, and they retired hastily, followed by a peal of derisive laughter. Mr. Justice CRAMPTON — This noise and laughing is extremely indecent, and I must exercise the au thority of the Court if such a breach of order and decorum be again committed. His Lordship ap pealed to both sides to know if some consent could not be arrived at to receive the verdict, or to let the jury go home. Mr. HATCURLt would reserve any point that might arise upon receiving the verdict after twelve o'clock. in favour of the traversers, and The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that he could not agree to permit of the jury separating. Mr. Justice CRAMPTON made another attempt to bring matters to an issue, and asked the Attorney • General if he was perfectly sure . that the verdict was not receivable after twelve o'clock ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL did not know ; he was not aware of any precedent upon the point, and would not go the length of saying that the verdict would not hold ; but he thought it the safer course to adjourn. • Mr. Justice CRAMPTON, for his own part, would not object to receiving it upon his own responsibility, though he could not say if he had ever taken a vet diet after 12 o'clock on Saturday night, but was sure that he had done so on other occasions. He wanted everything to he done according to law, but he thought both sides should consider the great inconvenience that would result to the 12 gentlemen on the jury from being confined the whole of that night and the following . day until Monday morning. To some of them it might be fatal. He wanted to know if there was a necessity for such measures, for they,were not at all advisable if there was no necessity ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL persisted in his desire for the adjournment of the Court. Mr. Justice CRAMPTON several times repeated his request to be informed if the adjournment and conse uent confinement of the jury were necessary , but did not elicit any answer on the point from the At torney-General, and, turning to Mr. Moore, asked, " What do you say ?" Mr. Mooas—Nothing, my_ Lord (tittering). Mr. Justice CRAMPTON—You do not much commit yourself, Sir. Mr. HENN, Queen's Counsel, after some consulta tion with his learned brethren, said that he did not object to a verdict being receives after 12 o'clock, nor yet did he consent to it. • Mr. Justice CRAMPTON complained that he could get no information from either side. The ATTORNEY-GRNERAL said he was willing to give all in his power. but the case was a singular one, and lest an objection should be raised here after, he thought it the safer plan for the Court to adjourn. Mr. Justice CRAMPTON said he would not discharge the jury, as it seemed to be against the opinion of both the Crown and the travel-sera. Mr. Mooae—Not ours, my Lord ; we say nothing. His LORDSHIP repeated his remark, which was re pudiated by the traversers, and said that he would adjourn the Court till eight o'clock on Monday morning. Mr. MoottE—What hour, my Lord? Mr. Justice CRAMPTON—Eight o'clock on Monday, as it is only fair to release the jurors as 'soon as possible. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Perfectly so, my Lord. 'However, after some grumbling, it was arranged that the Court should stand adjourned till nine o'clock. Mr. MON LH tig, Queen's Counsel, on behalf of the traversers, handed in a written objection, which was understood to be to the competency of the Court to adjourn after twelve o'clock on Saturday night. The jury were then summoned. Mr. Floyd (a juror) entered and said, " My Lord, we have been twice summoned when it appears we were not wanted." Mr. Justice CRAMPTON —You are wanted now Sir, The jury having made their appearance, His LORDSHIP expressed his regret at the unplea. sant Communication he had to make to them. lie had been informed that his jurisdiction to receive their verdict had ceased after twelve o'clock, and he wis much distressed to be obliged to. tell them that they would have to remain in con finement until Monday morning. It was a fatality growing out of the period of the morning at which they had arrived which it was impossible to ob viate. His Lordship stated that every effort would be made to render their situation as easy and comfortable as possible, and that they would be at liberty to attend Divine service, under the ' care of the High Sheriff, on Sunday. After having expressed his regret again at being obliged to Order them into confinement, and given them some general directions, his 'Lordship directed two bailiffs to b e sworn for their safe custody, under whose care they were conveyed to their room for the night. _ As they left the box the crowd in the gallery broke into a loud laugh of derision, whereupon 'Mr. Justice CRAMPTON directed the High Sheriff to have the first person arrested whom he could de , „j:7 - ,tett in the commission of such a gross brea ch of p ro- VE)2A - ‘ ''''' 'sty after the repeated admonitions he ,had given •,:,r.,-, t ". He 'would instantly commit to Newp t . •_. ;Mtdm.soever was brought before him, and proved to _lifn4uiltof such an act. His Lordship then retired; <, . 5 : Ai* n h is exit from the Court was followed by several ---,'-'-:. fin ds of the mob , who groaned and hissed' hint + ''' r , Ainti driven back by the police. • "` (2 14 i to two o'clock on Sunday morning- all c0n .,11 'ti ued quiet; Large bodies of police, horse and foot, patrolled the neighbourhood of the Court s , and it was ~,- 'O; ta understood that all the troops in garrison were ready to act at a moment's notice.. Mr. O'Connell has not attended the Court sinee the day on which he made his defence. It is said that the Hon. Gentleman is far from being well, and that the illness under which he was labouring visibly when he made his address to the jury, has been in creasing ever since. THE INDICTMENT. FIRST COUNT. The first count charges the traversers with "unlaw fully, maliciously, and seditiously contriving, intending, and devising to raise and create discontent and disaffec tion amon ,, the liege subjects of our said Lady the Queen, and to excite the said liege subjects to hatred and contempt of the Government and Constitution of this realm as by law established, and to excite hatred, jealousies, and ill-will amongst different classea of the said subjects, and to create discontent and disaffection amongst divers of the said subjects, and amongst others her Majesty's subjects serving in Majesty's army ; and further, con triving, intending, and devising to bring into disrepute and to diminish the confidence of her Majesty's subjects in the tribunals duly and lawfully constituted for the administration of justice ; and further, unlawfully, maliciously, and seditiously contriving, intending, sad devising by means of intimidation, and the de monstration of great physical force, to procure and effect changes to be made in the Government, laws, and Con stitution of this realm, as by law established heretofore to wit, on the 13th day of February, in the year of our Lord 1843, with force and arms, to wit, at the parish of St. Mark, in the county of the city of Dublin, unlaw fully, maliciously, and seditiously, did combine, con spire, confederate, and agree with each other and with divers other persons whose names are to the jurors afore said unknown, to raise and create discontent and dis affection amon g st the liege subjects of our said Lady the Queen, and to excite such subjects to hatred and con tempt of the Government and Constitution of this realm as by law established, and to unlawful and seditious opposition to the said Government and Constitution, and also to stir up jealousies, hatred, and between dif ferent classes of her Majesty's subjects, and especially to promote amongst her Majesty's subjects in Ireland feel ings of ill-will and hostility towards and ag ainst her Majesty's subjects in other parts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and especially in that part of the said United Kingdom called England; and further, to excite discontent and disaffection among st divers of her Majesty's subjects serving in her sa id Majesty's army; and further to cause and procure and aid and assist in causing and procuring divers subjects'of our said Lady the Queen unlawfully; maliciously, and seditiously to meet and assemble together in large numbers, at various times and at different places within Ireland, for the un lawful and seditious purpose of obtaining, by means of the exhibition and demonstration of great physical force at such assemblies and meetings, changes and alterations in the Government, laws, and Constitution of this realm as by law established ; and further to bring into hatred and disrepute the Courts by law established in Ireland for the administration of justice, and to diminish the con fidence of her Majesty's liege subjects in the administra tion of the law therein, with the intent to induce her Majesty's subjects to withdraw the adjudication of their differences with, and claims upon each other, from the ' cognizance of the said Courts of law established, and to submit the same to the judgment and determination, of other tribunals, to be constituted and contrived for that purpose." Forty-three overt acts are set forth in this the first count, relating principally to the various monster meet ings, the numbers attending them, the speeches deli vered at them, and the publication of the same by Messrs. Barrett, Gray, anti Duffy, proprietors of the Pilot, Free man, and Nation newspapers. The counts that follow this, down to the tenth, vary but little from the foregoing, which contains the grave mena of the whole charge. On this most important count, the verdict of the jury, as it at present stands, subject to the amendment they are to give in this day,finding." SECOND COUNT. This count charges the traversers) with " unlawfully. maliciously, and seditiously contriving, intending, and devising to raise and create discontent and disaffection among the liege subjects of our said Lady the Queen, and to excite the said liege subjects to hatred and con tempt of the Government and Constitution of this realm as by law established, and to excite hatred, jealousies, and amongst different classes of the said subjects, and to create discontent and disaffection amongst divers of the said subjects, and amongst others her Majesty's subjects serving in her Majesty's army ; and further contriving, intending, and devising to bring into disre pute and to diminish the confidence of her Majesty's subjects in the tribunals duly and lawfully constituted for the administration of justice, and further unlawfully, maliciously, and seditiously contriving, intending, and devising, by means of intimidation and the demonstra tion of great physical force, to procure and effect changes to be suede in the Government, laws, and Con stitution of this realm as by law established heretofore." On this count there is " no finding." THIRD COUNT. This count charges the traversers with unlawfully, maliciously, and seditiously, contriving, intending, and devising to raise and create discontent and disaffection amongst the liege subjects of our said Lady the Queen, and to excite the said liege subjects to hatred and con tempt of the Government and Constitution of this realm as by law established, and to Q-with hatred I jealousies, and ill will, amongst different classes of the said subjects, and to create discontent and disaffec tion amongst divers of the said subjects, and, amongst others, her Majesty's subjects serving in her Majesty's army; and further contriving, intending, and devising to bring into disrepute, and to diminish the confidence of her Majesty's subjects in the tribunals duly and lawfully constituted for the administration of justice; and further, unlawfully, maliciously, and seditiously, contriving, in tending and devising, by means of intimidation, and the demonstration of great physical force to procure and effect changes to be made in the Government, laws, and Constitution of this realm, as by law established ;" "and with attempting further to bring into hatred and dis repute the Courts by law established in Ireland for the administration of justice, and to diminish the confidence of her said Majesty's liege subjects in Ireland in the administration of the law therein, with the intent to induce her Majesty's subjects to withdraw the adjudication of their differences with, and claims upon each other from the cognizance of the said Courts by law esta blished, and to submit the same to the judgment and deter mination of other tribunals, to be constituted and contrived for that purpose in contempt of our said Lady the Queen." On this count the jury found Daniel O'Connell, R. Barrett, and Charles Gavan Duffy guilty. • FOURTH COUNT. The fourth count only varies the third, and again charges the traversers with attempting to excite her Majesty's subjects to hatred and contempt of the Consti tution of the realm. On this count the jury find " that Daniel O'Connell John O'Connell,Tho3. Mathew Ray, John Gray, Thomas Steele, and Charles Gavan Daffy are guilty." FIFTH AND SIXTH COUNTS. The fifth and sixth counts are also repetitions of the fourth, and charge the' traversers generally with at tempting to create dissatisfaction and hatred of the con stitution. On the fifth count the jury find that Daniel O'Con nell, John O'Connell, Thomas Matthew Ray, John Gray, Thomas Steele, Charles Gavan Duffy, and Thomas Tierney, are guilty. On the sixth count the jury says nothing. SEVENTH COUNT. This Count, in addition to the general charge of resting disaffection, charges the traversers with " pro curing divers subjects of our said lady the Queen to meet and assemble together in large numbers, at vari ous times and at different places within Ireland, for the unlawful and seditious purpose of obtaining, by means of the intimidation to be thereby caused, and by means of the exhibition and demonstration of the great physical force at such assemblies! and meetings, changes and alterations in the government, laws, and constitution of this realm, as by law established ; and, especially, by the means aforesaid, to bring about and accomplish a dissolution of the Legislative union, now subsisting between Great Britain and Ireland, in contempt of our said lady the Queen, and the laws of this realm ; to the evil example of all others in the like case offend ing, and against the peace of our said lady the Queen, her crown, and dignity." On this count the jury find Daniel O'Connell, John O'Connell, Thomas Matthew Ray, John Gray, Thomas Steele, and Charles Gavan Duffy, are guilty. EIGHTH COUNT. The traversers, by this count, are charged with " un lawfully, maliciously, and seditiously contriving, intend ing, and devising to bring into disrepute, and to dimi nish the confidence of her Majesty's subjects in the tri bunals duly and lawfully constituted in Ireland for the administration of justice heretofore, to wit, on the thir teenth day of February, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and forty-three, with force and arms, to wit, at the parish of Saint Mark, in the county of the city of Dublin aforesaid, unlawfully, maliciously, and seditiously did combine, conspire, confederate, and agree with each other and with divers other persons whose names are to the jurors aforesaid unknown, to bring into'hatred and disrepute the tribunals of law es tabltshed in Ireland for the administration of justice, and to diminish the confidence of her said Majesty's iege subjects in Ireland in the administration of the law therein, with the intent to induce her Majesty's subjects to withdraw the adjudication of their differences with and claims upon each other from the cognisance of the said tribunals by la.v establieted, and to submit the same to the judgment and determination of other tribunals to be constituted and contrived fur that purpose, in con tempt of our said lady the Queen and the laws of this realm to the evil example of all others in the like case offending and against the-peace of our said lady the Queen, her crown, and dignity. On this count there is no finding. NTH COUNT. The ninth count is only a variation of the eighth, and on this, too, there is no finding . . TENTH COUNT. This count repeats the charge of attempting to super sede the established courts of law for the administration of justice. On this count the jury find that Daniel O'Connell, John Connell, Thomas Matthew Ray, Thomas Steele, ohn G ray, and Ec C oL h uE a n r ty le cE s hNa Giv f G ov an o D eu u t fk raT , ye a . re guilty. y, and seditiously The eleventh rs e e o r n s tr w iv it i h ng ': "un lawfully, inaliciousl tending, and devisini, , ,b by means foansreceif, and intimidation, and the determination of physical and procuring large numbers of' persons to meet and assemble together in divers places, and at divers times, within Ireland, and by means of seditious and inflammatory speeches and addresses to be made and delivered to the said persons so to be assembled as last aforesaid, and also•by means of the publishing and causing and procur ing to be published to and amongst the subjects of her said Majesty, divers unlawful, malicious, and seditious writings and composition*, and 'further contriving and intending, by the several means aforesaid, to intimidate the Lords spirit temporal, and Commons of the Parliament of the Mited Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and thereby to effect and bring about changes in the laws and constitution of this realm as by law esta blished." On this count there is no finding, but merely the sig nature of the foreman affixed to it for himself and fellows. . The verdict is imperfect, as on some of the counts there is no conclusion come to as to the guilt or inno cence of the traversers, and it is therefore returned to the jury for amendment ; but the effect of it may be taken to be the same as a general verdict of Guilty. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 12. Their Lordships met at Five o'Clock. On the motion of Lord COTTENIIAM a Bill was read a first time entitled an Act for the Amendment of the Law of Imprisonment for Debt. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS. The LORD CHANCELLOR laid on the table of the House a Bill for altering the jurisdiction of Ecclesiastical Courts. THANKS TO SIR. CHARLES NAPIER. The Earl of RIPON, in rising to move that the thanks of the House be presented to Sir Charles Napier, and the officers and men under his command, said that he should take especial care to abstain .from anything which might by possibility lead to a difference of opi nion, or refer in' the remotest degree to any political question. It had always been the practice, on occasions of this kind, to pursue that course, which was recom mended as well by reason as by practice. He might, however, be permitted, before he moved that the thanks of the House be given to Sir Charles Napier, to state to their Lordships, as briefly as ho could, the grounds upon which he thought the conduct of that gallant officer, and the army under his command, was most de serving of their Lordships' applause and thanks. He would take the liberty very shortly of de tailing to their Lordships the course of those operations which had given new lustre to the mili tary character of that distinguished o ffi cer. It ap peared that in the course of th e - early part of last year Sir Charles Napier, who was in command of her Ma jesty's and the East India Company's forces in Sinde, was called upon by the Governor-General to enter into cer tain negotiations with the Ameers of Sinde. In the course . of those proceedings he received information, upon which information he (the Earl of Ripon) would offer no opi nion. Me received information which led him to believe that the Ameers, with whom he was about to negotiate, were collecting troops and the means of resistance, from which he inferred that it would become Impossible for him to bring the negotiations to a satisfactory issue without hav ing at hand military forces to support his proceedings. Under these circumstances, he felt it his duty to move from his position on the Indus at the town of Sukkur to the town of Bukkur, in order by this operation to disperse those forces which his representations had failed to do. When he ar rived there the Ameers and their forces retired, but he was led to believe, from information he had received, that their dispersion did not take place, and that a necessity might arrive for a display of force on his part. The Ameers returned from Khyrporo, and took anothdr direction, and Sir Charles Napier, feel ing a necessity for securing his line of operation, moved forward and secured the fort of Sukkur. The Ameers, feeling their position was not a secure one, retired from the position they had taken up, and Sir Charles Napier determined to move forward, in spite of all the difficulties which pre sented themselves ; and though there was a want of supplies, and there was great apprehension of a defi ciency of water, it seemed to him that Sir C. Napier, being a man of great spirit, was not to be daunted from effect ing his march; but being at the same time a person of great sagacity and prudence, he felt there was some risk in effecting it, and he felt it necessary to guard against the consequences which might follow. He, therefore, placed an advanced force on the road to Hyderabad, the capital of Sinde, and it was so posted as to enable the main body to carry on their operations. His mea sures completely succeeded. He now felt it neces sary to advance further towards Hyderabad, which was not very easy, particularly as he had reason to believe that the Ameers had collected a consider able force, which might place his army in jeopardy. He advanced forwards some distance from Hyderabad, where he remained for some days. In the meantime, after :certain negotiations which he had reason to sup pose would lead to a termination of the affair, an attack was made on the 15th of February, by a large body of Beloochees upon the residence of Ma jor 0 utramovhich was within a short distance of Hyderabad, between that city and the left bank of the Indus. In the defence of this place Major Outram behaved with the greatest gallantry; though he had only a few troops with him, and though the attack was made by upwards of 800 of the na tives, and pushed with great vigour, he maintaind his position for a considerable time. It unfor tunately happened that he had not received some supplies of ammunition which he had expected, and he was obliged to support the attack with a small number of forces. He was not a man to yield. He was well known to be a brave and resolute soldier; and Sir Charles Napier spoke of him in the highest terms, and of all who served under him on that occasion. An attack had been made on three sides of the building, and though they we re obliged to retire, they did so in good order, wit h a trivial loss of only ten or twelve men. When Sir C. Napier heard that Major Outram was compelled to re tire, he felt it necessary for him to take further steps, and to move forward. He did so, and he found the enemy posted in a well selected position, which showed that they were not ignorant of military skill. Their front was defended by a deep ditch, and their flanks were covered with jungle, their right flank was further defended by a ditch. This was a most formid able position. Sir Charles Napier attacked 22,000 men in this strong position with 2,800 in front. He could not attack them in any , other way. The moment he saw the position, he perceived, with that quickness which was characteristic of him, how the attack was to be con ducted. He placed his troops en echellon, and advanced at once and stormed their breastworks. The enemy made a stout resistance, but after a severe struggle they were routed with great loss, and their ammunition and baggage fell into the hands of the conquerors.—(Cheers.) The troops in this battle had distinguished themselves by their coolness, courage, and energy.—(Cheers.) The effect of this battle had not been, however, to dis perse the whole of the enemy's force. It was a remark able circumstance in Indian warfare that an enemy once defeated should not at once disperse, but in the present instance it so happened that one of the Ameers had a body of troops untouched. He was joined by the re fugees of the battle of Meeanee, and he commenced mili tary operations. Sir Charles Napier, therefore, found it necessary to advance from Hyderabad against the Ameer of Trapore. The Ameer had under his command 20,000 men, and Sir Charles Napier 5,000. The Ameer had taken up a strong position. He had two nullahs, or ditches, in his front, which was also de , fended by a rampart and breast-work. Sir C. Napier, in his dispatches, said that it was difficult to ascertain the exact position of the enemy's left flank, and that, therefore, he determined to attack his right flank. The attack was made by the cavalry, supported by the 22d Infantry. The Ameer, finding that he was outflanked on his right, drew troops from his left to support his right. Sir Charles Napier judged from this manmuvre that his right flank was his weakest point, and therefore had determined that he would make his attack on the right. The troops advanced steadily, reserving their fire until it would tell with effect, and the result was the complete defeat of the enemy.—(Cheers.) He had thus given a short and imperfect account of the two great aeons which had been fought by Sir Charles Napier. These victories had not, however, been won without loss. Our loss, in killed and wounded, had been 500 men ; amongst there we had to regret many of the bravest officers of our Indian army.—(Hear, hear.) He would not detain the House by describing the gallant acts of ndividuals—thoseservices had all been described by Sir Charles Napier, in his dispatches, and were now part of the military history of this country.—(Cheers.) He might say one word as to the non-commissioned officers and soldiers,—though, with respect to this por tion of her. Majesty's army it was almost needless for him to speak. Many of their Lordships knew what they were as soldiers, with what spirit they fought, and the discipline which they maintained in action. But there was another portion of the army—the native troops— (Hear, hear)—of the East India Company; these troops must always, on occasions like these, be looked on in a peculiar light. They were not mer cenaries, for they were volunteer soldiers ; they were not English though they were British subjects. But in many respects they had the hearts of Englishmen ; they were as brave as any troops in the world—(Hear)—they were capable of as admirable discipline—(Hear)—they were patient of fatigue, and willing to sacrifice their natural prejudices. They went from their own country to places beyond the seas, of which they knew nothing, and they displayed as much spirit and disciplie in fighting in another climate, as if they were fighting in their own homes on the con tinent of India. These qualities they had manifested on occasions without number ; and in addition to this they were remarkable for their unvarying fidelity. But for that fidelity the. Government would at times have been placed in difficulties from which it could not easily have ex tricated itself. Their Lordships then would agree with him in tendering their thanks to that army. And let them not suppose that their thanks would be barren. These men might not know accurately what spaCe their Lordships filled in the eyes of Europe and the world— what their functions were in the Government of England ; but when ' they looked at their standards, bearing the names of these victories—when they felt on their breasts the medals which her Majesty and the East India Company had ordered to be pre sented to them,—they would feel an equal pride and gratitude, for the honour their Lordships would confer upon them by agreeing to this motion. His 'Lordship concluded by moving that the thanks of their Lordships be presented to Sir Charles Napier, the officers of the army, and the native troops engaged in the , late military operations in Sinde, particularly in the battles of Meeanee and Hyderabad. The motion having been put from the Woolsack, Lord AUCKLAND rose. He trusted he should stand excused before their .Lordships if he rose for the pur pose of seconding the motion of the Noble Earl oppo site. He could add little to what had fallen from the Noble Lord, but it was a gratification to himself to be allowed to say that he cordially, and without quali fication, concurred in the vote of thanks to that no one more alive than himself eX7sitalsi94oo of the Indian army ; there was no army that possessed in kt tilth9F damp tjr best qualities of the soldier. He Shq l c! n9t , f l ollow Noble Lord in his details; he should oily say Oat pliqug4 by good direction and 4Qoci diseipruie their arrili had fretluentlk vanquished forces infinitely supe rior to themselves, yet in -no instance, - not even excepting the battles of Plessy and As saye, was the disproportion or the difficulty greater. He was glad that the motion had been confined ex clusively to the military operations, it being so desirable that in a vote of thanks they should be nnimous. There was nothing in the vote that could give rise to a differ ence of opinion. The Duke of WELLINGTON said it was not his that could occasion n this question ; but a in n t y enti d o i n ffere t n o ce sa o y f o a p n in y i t o h n ing o he• could not listen to such . a motion as this, im pressed as he was with the strong importance and merits of the services which had been performed, without expressing his cordial assent in the expressions of approbation which had fallen front his Noble Friend (Lord Ripon) in submitting his motion to the notice of their Lordships. He (the Duke of Wel lington) must say, that after giving the fullest consi deration to these operations, he had never known an in stance of a general officer who had shown, in a higher degree, all the requisite qualifications to enable him to conduct great operations.—(Hear, hear.) Major-General Sir Charles Napier had manifested the utmost discretion and prodence in the formation of his plans, the utmost activity in perfecting the preparations so necessary to success, and finally . the utmost zeal, gallantry, and silence in carrying these plans and prepara tions into - execution,—(Hear, hear.) His Noble p r ia t t in introducing his motion, had spoken of the celebrated march of General Napier, and he (the Duke of Wellington) must say, that it was one of the greatest feats that it had ever been his good fortune to peruse, and that it was completely successful. — (Hear, hear.) He had marched with his army through the desert with all his heavy guns, transporting all his materiel as well, and this in the most extraordinary manner, having thus been, by his activity, zeal, and determination, enabled to deprive his enemy of the means of retreat.—(Hear, hear.) 'Af ter his return from this masterly operation, he collected all his troops and made all prudential and necessary pre parations for whatever po s ition future events might place him in, should he be called upon to engage his enemy. It was proved that he could only collect but a moderate number of troops. That mat tered little, for Major-General Sir Charles Napier had confidence in his troops, in himself, and they had confidence in him. He then was called upon to make a most extraordinrry attack, which most com pletely succeeded, gaining a complete victory, having secured the guns and wateriel of his enemy, and taken every precaution to keep his own together. Again he found himself in a position likely to be attacked by a greatly superior number of forces ; he secured for him self and his troops, not only the honour of a glorious victory by the conquest of Hyderabad, but made his position on the Indus so good that nothing could sur prise him. He then brought up reinforcements from Sukkur, and by his activity and decision, found himself at the head of a stronger army than that with which he had fought the original battle. Now, he (the Duke of Wellington) must do Major-General Sir Charles Napier the justice to say, that in his operations, made with a view to obtain all the reinforcements he could, he had manifested all the discretion and foresight of an officer entrusted with the highest description of operations. When joined by these reinforcements .he immediately advanced and made his attack, th 9 result of which was one of the most brilliant victories that ever was achieved ; and which showed in the general, in the officers, and in the men, all the highest qualities that soldiers could possess . (Hear, hear.) Having achieved this victory, he pursued his enemy to his capi tal, Meerpore—on the borders of the desert, of which he took possession ; and having afterwards pierced into the desert, with the view of taking possession of another post, he did so take possession of it, and so deprived his enemy of the means of making it an asylum at any time afterwards.—(Hear, hear.) He mentioned this fact, because-in the course of the operations connected with it, an instance occurred which manifested in a strong degree the confidence which Major-General Napier's officers reposed in him. Having determined on making his attack on Meerpore, he found a river some way in his rear; it was most difficult, but necessary to keep up a com munication with Hyderabad. He determined to secure this, and actually sent orders that operations should be stopped, and directed the troops to fall back on Meer pore. An officer who was there, Major-General Napier's aide-de-camp, rode from Meerpore through the desert, in the hot season, not less than forty miles, and let him know the state of the siege. Having received fresh orders from Major-General Napier, this officer rode back on-the same day—thus making a distance of full eighty miles in one day—and the place was taken.—(Hear, hear.) They captured the place.—(Cheers.) This he (the Duke of Wellington) mentioned as an in stance of the confidence in Major-General Napier, by those serving under his command ; their desire to further his views, and, in every way they could, to co-operate with him for the good of the service. He could not pronounce anything to their Lordships which could more strongly prove to their Lordships the confidence of all officers and soldiers in their General.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped he had said nothing to disturb the amity which had hitherto reigned amongst their Lord ships upon this vote of thanks, to which never was there an army more entitled than the General, the officers, and men—British and native—who had taken part in these brilliant operations.—(Hear, hear.) It happened to him to know that the Governor-General had transmitted to Sir C. Napier his warm appropation of the gallantry of the troops at Meeanee. He hoped their Lordships would be entirely unanimous on this occasion.—(Cheers.) The motion was unanimously agreed to. STATE OF IRELAND. The Marquis of NORMANBY rose for the purpose of laying on the table of the House the resolution of which he had given notice, and which he intended to bring under their Lordships' notice to .morrow evening: "That this House, in answer to her Majesty's most gra cious speech, assure her Majesty that the House fully enters into the feelings of her Majesty on that part of her Majesty's speech with reference to the subject matter of which proceedings are now pending in Ireland ; and this House feels it its duty to tak e th e ear li e st oppor tunity, when no prejud ice can arise therefrom, to record their intention to exa mi ne into the causes of discontent existing in Ireland, with a view to the removal of evils and the restoration of tranquillity, and also that all classes :may enjoy estutl rights and privileges, irrespec. tive of religious distinctions. ST SPAIN.OF oucould Lord CLAR ENDON ' ATE G said he assure their Lord ships that he was not actuated by party motives, in rising to address t hem—bu t recent events which had taken place there, which were pending, were of a cha racter too serious to be passed over. He was sure that these things had attracted the attention of his Noble Friend opposite,, and their Lordships and the country in general were desirous to receive any information which it would not be inconsistent with the public duty to communicate.. It should be recollected that Spain was a country that always must have an important in fluence on the affairs of Europe, and its independence and prosperity was of importance to all. That Bri. tish statesman would fail in his duty to the country if be neglected to promote that in dependence, and to guard against all attacks whether open or insidious, or come from what quarter it night. Events had lately taken place in that country which imperatively called for their Lordships' most serious attention. The institutions and the throne of Spain were in equal danger ; both had been degraded and set aside, and in their place had been erected a military despotism of the very worst character, and of the most atrocioue description, which had been for months past trampling on the law and outra.ing the feelings of the people. That could not be allow e d to go on. No nation would long submit to such a state of things. It might be almost called a chronic state of civil war. Other Governments thought themselves justified in interfering ; and, indeed, no European nation could long hold back from interfering in the affairs of that country. Such a state of things might lead to great dissension among the Powers of Europe; and it was most important for the preservation of that peace which had long so happily prevailed, that order should be re stored to Spain. The institutions of the country, which the people so mac& prided themselves in, had been over thrown; or, what was the same thing, had been nulli fied. He was far from saying that it was in the power of his Noble Friend opposite to prevent those things, but it was hardly possible that this country could be much longer a silent spectator of such events. Those who knew Spain must say that certain classes in that country were very Much totlame for their readiness in calling upon and accepting foreign assistance, come from what quarter it might. It was this servility and com plaisance under a foreign yoke, to which the downfal of the Regent might be attributed. The intention of raising the Basque Provinces, and the attack upon the palace at night, were well known in Paris long before they took place. With respect to the revolution, which had terminated in the fall of the Regent, he really believed there never was a more objectless and wicked revolution. The news of the Regent's fall, it might be remembered, had been re ceived in this country with symptoms of great regret, and in Paris with a feeling of pleasure. He thought, in the course the French Goveanment had adopted towards Espartero, they had committed a great error, because of the political sagacity which the Regent exercised on all occasions, and because the smallest knowledge of the Spanish character would . have been sufficient to have shown the dangers which must result from his overthrow. There were no persons interested in maintaining the thrones of Europe but were interested in preventing the overthrow of the Regent. The difficulties he had to con tend with entitled him to the greatest credit. He had long, amidst foreign and domestic intrigue, maintained the Government of the country, without a single infraction of the laws or the Constitution. With respect to the Queen, her position would have been most di ffi cult, even if her accession had taken place under the most favourable circumstances. These diffi culties were greatly increased by her being compelled to ascend the throne before the period originally fixed, and by her being made the instrument for violating the law, and running counter to the prejudices of the people whom she governed: These were the auspices under which the.youthful Sovereign of Spain had commenced her reig n ; and nothing could have been more easy th an to have foreseen or prevented such a state of things. He (the Earl of Clarendon) certainly, for his pat, did not believe the rumours which had been spread respect ing funds and emissaries being sent from France to p_romote and sustain the insurrection ; but had th e French Government wished to uphold Espartero, they should have enforced the same principles in Spain which they had in Switzerland respecting L ou i s Bonaparte, They might depend upuu it that a re-action would ensue—that the greatest anarchy would hereafter be the consequence an d that it would be almost mira culous if the Spani s h throne could stand up amidst the confusion; andyet it was said in the speech of the King of the French that a most cordial understanding- subsisted between England and France with respect to Spain. It was strange enough that the announcement o f that cor (fiat m2derqtlinding r eisryca fQr thelini s e When .6 " r 0 14j14 0 6 d 484 1 4eell rOcrell• The fitie4n4 which he (the Earl of Clarendon) wished to put was upon what basis was it that this good understanding rested ? and what was the policy hereafter to be adopted with respect to Spain? Whether his Noble Friend thought it con sistent with his duty, to give an answer to that ques tion or not, he would take the liberty of saying that, upon the united action of the Governments of France and England depended the salvation of the people of Spain ; particularly as this rood understanding must involve, and probably related chiefly to, the marriage of the Queen of Spam, and upon that depended the peace and prosperity of that unfortunate country. He was con vinced that upon the selection of the Consort of the Queen depended the establishment of peace and order there. He was utterly at a loss to eonceive upon what right was founded the claim made by the French Go vernment to restrict the Queen's right of choice to a Prince of the House of Bourbon. The individual that they selected was the Count Trapani, a youth of 16 years of age, the brother of the King of Naples, and who bad been brought up the Junta at Rome, and was destined for holy orders. He was astonished that such a choice should be made—the Court of Naples was the the only one in Europe that had protested against the ancient order of succession, and the present King had, after the late revolution, refused to permit his sister Al aria Chri stine to cross the frontier of his kingdom into Naples. If from such a marriage as the house of Naples would fur nish, Spain should again become subject to those priestly and kingly influences, under which that country had for so many centuries laboured, he did hope they would not be able hereafter to plead the advice and con currence of England. The Noble Earl concluded by repeating the questions which he had put in the course of his observations. The Earl of ABERDEEN thought the question of their relations with France would justify a motion before the House, rather than a mere question. He rejoiced that the Noble Lord concurred in the general expression of satisfaction at the establishment of a good understand ing between this country and France.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had entered at considerable length into the events that had taken place in Spain, in the attempt to establish the constitution existing there, and had de scribed the various impidiments which had been thrown in the'way of the completion of that design. No one was better acquainted than the Noble Lord with the anomalies often presented by Spanish affairs ; but he believed it would puzzle him, or any one else, on looking back on the various revolutions, insurrections, and changes, that had taken place there for the last ten years—'sinCe the death of King Ferdinand the Seventh—to give any intel ligible or consistent account of the causes or motives of any one of them. When an event of this kind took place it was very easy to attribute it to foreign influence, and to say, Oh ! this was plotted in Paris—that was contrived in London. The Noble Lord knew well that if the overthrow of Espartero was supposed to have been contrived at Paris, it was no less generally believed that his elevation to power was contrived in London ; this was believed to have been as much an English project, for English interests, as his downfal, according to the Noble Lord, was attributed to the efforts made in France, and the contrivance and assistance of the French Govern meat. He believed that both one and the other statement had an equal degree of truth—that is, they had no truth at all. He was as satisfied that the English Govern ment had nothing to do with the elevation of Espartero, and the consequent abdication of the Queen Regent, as he was that his overthrow was not the work of the French Government. The late revolution in Spain might be objectless and senseless, as the Noble Lord had described it, but to say that it was not a national revolution, was to say what was contrary to all observa tion. In . the course of six weeks there was not a village in Spain that had not declared against the Regent; there was no party in the country, even including his own sovereign, who did not unite to expel and overthrow the Regent. When he was escaping from the troops who pursued him to Cadiz, when he found himself in safety there, he dared not proceed to, or land, at any one of the thirty or forty strong places which Spain has on the coast, but sailed direct to England. Had he not lost all hope rf support, he would not thus have at once abandoned his country. He contended that so general a movement cou ld no t h av e been pro ducedHisN b h lye Friend fore i I,angeewn that h y a t ; i h t e w w as a s perfectly ll y of being the author of the revolution of La Granja ; but however much or little the Noble Lord might have had to do with it, it was certain that their course of policy had been to meddle too much with the affairs of Spain. The fall of Espartero himself was hastened by a very general belief that he was under the influence of Eng land. There was no characteristic of the Spanish peo ple more marked than their resistance to foreign influ ence. Though they might submit to it for a time, yet they would rise and resist it afterwards, at a time when they might destroy the wholesome influence that we did possess. He assured the Noble Lord that the good understanding with the Court s of France, with respect to Spain, was not founded on any specific engagement. It was founded on a belief that the interests of the two countries were not so much at variance as to prevent their acting cordially together, and it was founded on a mutual trust in the honour and integrity of each other, and rested on a desire to secure the complete independence of Spain, to promote the es tablishment of the constitutional system, and to dere lope the great natural resources of that country. These were their only objects ; he acknowledged'no other—he knew no other. With respect to the marriage of the Queen of Spain, that was exclusively and entirely -a Spanish question, to be decided by the Spanish people themselves ; he could assure the Noble Lord that Eng tand and France had come to no understanding on this subject which could interfere with the complete inde pendence of the Spanish nation. Whether they might think fit to choose a Prince of the House of Bourbon or not, was for themselves to decide. The Earl of - CLARENDON expressed his gratifies tion at the opportunity he had given for the answer a the Noble Earl. Lord HO WDEN said that he had travelled a good deal in France and Spain, and he believed it would take two or three years to do away with the effects of what the Noble Earl (Clarendon) had said on this subject. The House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 12. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'Clock. Papers from the Poor-law Commissioners and returns from the Rank of Enzland were presented. POOR-LAWS. Mr. WALT IRpresented a petition from the Poor law Guardians of Bury, praying for an alteration in the bastardy clause of the Poor-law Act. WINDOW-TAX. Mr. W. LASCELLtS presented a petition from the licensed victuallers of Wakefield, praying to be relieved from the window-tax. _ Mr. SMYTHE presented a petition to the same effect from Canterbury. THE PROPOSED DUTY ON COAL. Mr. ORD presented a petition from Newcastle-on- Tyne, against the proposed increase in the duty on coal imported into London. Mr. HUT presented a petition to the same effect from Gateshead. ST. ASAPH AND BANGOR. Lord CLIVE presented . a petition against the union of these two sees. CAMBRIDGE ELECTION. Mr. M. GIBSON presented a petition from Mr. James Coppock, praying that the evidence taken before the Cambridge Election Committee might be produced as evidence in a certain action now pending in the Court of Queen's Bench. . . . . . The petition having been read, Mr. M. GIBSON made a motion in conformity with the prayer of the petition, which was agreed to. Lord G. Somerset, Sir Geo. Grey, and Mr. Wilson Patten were sworn at the table as Members of the Com mittee of Selection for Election Petitions. THP LATE OUTRAGE AT BRIGHTON. Capt. PECHELL said that, seeing . the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary at War in his place, he wished to draw his attention to a question which he put to him on Saturday . , regarding an outrage committed by a body of soldiers in Brighton upon the property and persons of some of the inhabitants. He wished to know if the Right Hon. Gentleman had received any in formation whether such - steps would be taken by the. Horse Guards Kr would prevent the recurrence of such practices? Sir H. HARDINGE said he found by the papers that the quarrel alluded to by the Right Hon. Gentleman originated in a soldier being obstructed and assaulted by three or four men, inhabitants of Brighton. lie called to his companions for assistance, who turned out and pursued the men, who took refuge in a house the property of which they destroyed. It was impossible to. vindicate the violence and outrage which took place on the occasion. Their conduct was most improper ; but, as the regiinent volunteered to give compensation to the person whose property was destroyed, and as one of the parties stood accused of an assault and riot, it would not be necessary for him to enter into the details of the sub ject. In order to prevent a recurrence of such violence, the Horse Guards would take the necessary steps. WOOD PAVEMENT. Mr. HUME wished to ask the Noble Lord, the Chief Commissioner of the Woods and Forests, whether it was intended to pave George-street, Westminster, White hall, and Parliament-street, with wood ? Lord LINCOLN said that the Commissioners of Woods and Forests were not the sole Paving Commissioners for Westminster. He believed that the inhabitants of the streets alluded to had applied to the Commis sioners to have those streets paved with wood, but the answer had been that the Commissioners would not entertain any proposal for the extension of the wood pavement at present. He believed that the whole sub ject would be taken into consideration after Easter. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr. FERRAND gave notice that, on the motion of the Hon. Member for Stockport, for a Select Committee to inquire into the operation of the import duties being pro posed, he should move, as an amendment, that the Com mittee be also directed to inquire into the effect produced upon the wages of the manufacturing operatives by the im migration of agricultural labourers into the manufacturing districts at the requisition of the mill-owners; also, if the representations which had been made to those labourers to induce them to immigrate were true, and if the agree ments entered into with them had been fulfilled; and also the effect which the increase of machinery had produced upon the wages of the manufacturing operatives. Mr. S. WORTLEY gave notice of his intOticai to R pu r4 t E that N the House gave notice that on th e mo - do resolve it se lf i nto a move amendments to certain clanseg in the Factories Bill. tio S u ti irC ei ll ng A Committee of Supply on the Navy Estimates, heiWuld d th ir e ec Mr. WALL ACE postponed his motion for an instruc tion to the Committee on Railways till this day WINIC I B t the oarda Q t r te A n a ti r4 on ira o it f i the -19.1.119 to the c o n s tit ut i on o f He also postponed his motion 011 t h e qtigetickti being wit that the Tim& 4 1 , 54:11v,/ isAt. il Fi tio Cenriittee of tlpply tmtil Alon ay nex t" i 'Mr. ITEMIK Os pored 1 04 ntioll fqr. tA Sel( t ict 90411, qiitte§ 0 i 19 1 , 4 10 4Atc! tile 81 .1 1 V4i 0 § l ANxittle, until _„ Tuesday week, and also gave notice that in the event •f the House agreeing to the amendment of which the Hon. Member for Sheffield had given notice on the motion of the Hon. Member for Pontefract, proposing that a provision should be made for thy, Roman Catholic clergy of Ireland, he (Mr. Hume) should propose that an humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that her Majesty would be pleased to direct an inquiry to be made for the purpose of ascertaining whether the number of persons dissenting from the Established Churches of England, Ireland, and Scotland, was not greater than the number of those in communion with those churches. and, if so, whether the time was not arrived when tl:e public property which had been devoted to the uses of those churches ought to be withdrawn, regard being had to existing interests, and whether the greater portion of it ought not to be devoted to the promotion of national education. TREATY WITH TURKEY. Dr. BOWBING postponed till the 22d of February the motion of which he had given notice, respecting the commercial treaties with Turkey, which now stood for the 15th. FACTORIES BILL. Lord ASHLEY gave notice that, in Committee on the Factory Bill, he should move, as an amendment, the substitution of ten hours for twelve, as the time of the labour of females. (We understood this to be the pur port of the Noble Lord's notice, but he was scarcely suable.) LEGACY DUTX. Mr. J.IUME moved his usual annual return of the amount of legacy duty received during tho past year. — Ordered. POOR-LAW. Mr. FERR AND said he had to put a question to the Right lion. Baronet, the Secretary for the Ilome Depart ment, which referred to a judgment lately delivered by Lord Denman. The question being on the paper he should not read it. The Hon. Gentleman's question is as follows: —" That as Lord Chief Justice Denman has declared it to be the unanimous opinion of the Judges of the Court of Queen's Bench, that there are some cases in which it is necessary to break in upon an Act of Parliament, and upon that which may have existed from all time ;' and has also declared that it is the mother who is the proper party to have the custody of all her children under seven years of age, and that is not 'for the benefit of the mother, but for the protection of the children;' and that he thinks that ' the Judges ought to crush the first attempt to depart from that principle, and that it is of the highest importance that it should be considered the undoubted law of the land,'—whether the Government intend to insert a clause in the new Poor law Bill, for the purpoie of prohibiting the separation of mother and child, if they should become the inmates of a workhouse?" Sir J. GRAHAM said he was much obliged to the Hon. Gentleman for putting his question in such a man ner as to render it impossible to doubt as to the nature of it ; it having been printed for several days, every Hon. Gentleman must be acquainted with it. He was sure that the Hon. Gentleman had exercised a commendable caution in framing this question ; but he would allow him to say that he had been inadvertently led into a serious mistake. The Hon. Gentleman set forth in his question what purported to be a dictum of Lord Chief Justice Denman, and his question referred to a great grievance he said existed in the workhouse system, with respect to the separation of mothers from their children under seven years of age. Now the question referred to a matter of fact which had no existence, and recited a dictum of Lord Denman's which was never pronounced. He would first deal with the matter of fact. By a gene ral order which had received the sanction of the Secre tary of State, which was therefore equivalent to a legal enactment, at this moment throughout England, children under seven years of age, if in the workhouse, were not separated from their mothers. In the general order of the Secretary of State, to which he referred, it is expressly stated that under seven years of age children of mothers confined in a workhouse should be placed in the same ward with their parents, and should have the usual allowance ; and to prevent any possibility of doubt with respect to what was meant by " usual allowance," there was an explanation in the order given by the Poor-law Com missioners, which he would read to the House: —" The Commissioners have only to remark upon this proviso—that so long as any mother shall have her child she is to have access to that child at all times except when at work ; and that the child shall not be placed beyond the mother's reach." With respect to the - dictum of Lord Chief Justice Denman, the House would see that in referring to the notes the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Ferrand) stated it to be " the unanimous opinion of the Court of Queen's Bench that there were some cases in which it is necessary to break in upon an Act of Parliament, and upon that which may have existed from all time." The Hon. Gentleman believed that to have been the dictum of Lord Chief Justice Denman. Now, so far from that heir' , the case, the dictum was precisely the converse. He (Sir J. Graham) had it from one of the Judges of the Court, and he had it from the Law Journal Report. In that Report the Lord Chief Justice stated that " cases have arisen where, in order to give effect to the express words of an Act of Parliament, it has been necessary to break in upon established principles." — (Hear, hear, and laughter.) So far, therefore, from stating that there were cases in which it was necessary to infringe upon any Act of Parliament, Lord Chief Justice Denman said no such thing, but precisely the converse. He (Sir J. Graham) hoped that the answer he had given to the Hon. Gentleman was satisfactory. He begged further to state that he did not purpose inserting in the Poor-law Amendment Bill any such provision as that to which the Hon. Gentleman's question referred. Mr. FERRAND begged to ask the Right lion. Baronet whether he intended to introduce into the Bill a provision, giving to mothers the custody of their children until they were seven years old ? Sir JAMES GRAHAM replied that he bad at pre sent no such intention. Mr. FERRAND said that after that announcement he begged to give notice that he should himself propose a clause to that effect. ATTORNEY-GENERAL FOR IRELAND. Captain BERNAL begged to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State for the Home Department, of which he would have given notice had he thought that there would be any difficulty' in answering it. It would be in the recollection of the House, that the Noble Lord the Secretary fur the Colonies had made a quotation on a previous night from a letter of the Irish Attorney-Gene ral, in which he charged the counsel for the traversers with having made a systematic attempt to excite him to commit a breach of the peace. He wished to know whether the Right Hon. Baronet had any objection to lay on the table a copy of the letter in question ? Sir J. GRAHAM—Most certainly. The letter was not within his control. It was'a private letter, addressed to his Noble Friend the Secretary for Ireland. But he felt great pleasure, however, in informing the Hon. and Gallant Officer that he hoped, in eight-and-thirty hours, to sew the Attorney-General for Ireland in his place. Capt. BERNAL gave notice that he would shortly draw the attention of the House to the subject. Mr. E. ELLICE, jun., inquired whether it was the intention of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir James Graham) to introduce, in this present session, a Bill for the better division of parishes in Scotland ? Sir JAMES GRAHAM said his Learned Friend the Lord Advocate would certainly introduce a measure on that subject. In repty to a question from an Hort. Mummt, whose name we could not learn, The CHANCELLOR' of the EXCHEQUER stated that, in consequence of some communication which had passed between himself and the authorities of Man chester, a Bill would shortly be introduced for the bond ing of goods for home consumption, and to that Bill he should give his support, on the condition that Man chester should bear the expense. THE FISHERIES. Captain PECHELL wished to put a qtkstion to the Right Hon. Baronet, the First Lord of the Treasury, with respect to the fisheries. In the year 1839, a con vention was entered into between this country and France, which ended in the preparation of certain regu lations, which were to be submitted to the Governments of both countries. An Act of Parliament had passed the Legislature of this country confirming those regu lations, and he wished to know what course had been taken on the part of France, in order that our fishermen in the English Channel might know in what position they were now placed. Sir ROBERT PEEL said he should be very glad to give to the Gallant Officer every information in his power. The Hon. and Gallant Officer would recollect that the Governments of France and England were in a different position at the time when the Convention between the two countries was agreed upon. At that time the Paliament of this country was sitting, whilst the legislative bodies of France had closed their proceedings. Therefore, it was impossible for the French Government at that time to propose a law for giving effect to the provisions contained in the convention. The French Government had certainly another power, which was not recognised in this country—the power of issuing ordinances during the period when the Chambers were not sitting • but even this power was not sufficient to give a full and en tire effect to the stipulations agreed upon. He was happy, however, to say that he had been advised, on authority, that a projet de lei had been prepared by a Committee to be submitted to the French Chambers, and that there was every reason to hope that no unnecessary delay would occur in obtaining the requisite legislative sanc tion in France to the provisions of the Convention. Captain PECHELL would be glad to know, supposing it was found that the provisions of the Convention were not sanctioned by the French Chambers, whether the Right Honourable Baronet (Sir R. Peel) would lay the entire matter before the House in such state as it might then happen to be ? Sir ROBERT PEEL was. certainly of opinion that the subjects of this country, in such an event, would have a right to every information connected with the subject. LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRELAND) COM MISSION. Mr. ROSS said the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) would recollect the question put to him the other night by the lion. Member for Finsbury (Mr. Wakley) to know whether he had any objection to place some tenant farmers on the Landlo.o avid Tenant Commission, in order to dissipate the suspicions which undoubtedly in some quiwieDs attached to it. When the Right Hon, Baronet expressed his doubts whether such tenant-flirrners could be found to undertake the duty, he (Mr. Ross) had been of opinion that plenty could be found. The next morn ing he (igr, Ilo,ss) had received information which satisfied litrn that in the west and south of Ireland Iblenty of tenant-farmers, with rents varying Acorn 2,000 L to 4001, or 3001., could l iWnd v filling to undertake the duty. 'INW "Wit lion. Baronet expressed an inclination rather iA yield to the wishes so expressed by the Hon. Member for Finsbury. The question he wished to put was, whether, as there was no difficulty ie . fin d ' ing respectable tenant-farmers to act upon the Commission, without salary, the Right Hon. Baronet - would consent to nominate some ; and, „lpposing his answer to be in the negative, whether lie v. ,orisent to associate some of the humbler class of v,ith those already named in the Commission, paying them for their 'time and trouble ? Sir R. PEEL said the Hon. Gentlemen must have misunderstood the answer which he (Sir Robert flee!) gave the other evening to the questi ,, n of tie. llp 7 ' Member for Finsbury (Mr. it.Voliley. and 11:?, thoug7it he did '..fty on th t oe not pr.:pared a) agree to a:ly al_terat:oa :11 tion of the Commission. The Commission had made con siderable progress in their labours, indeed he had reason to suppose some portion of their Report would soon be ready, and he was, therefore, not prepared to sanction any interference with it. • Mr. ROSS said he thought the Right Hon. Baronet had not answered in a satisfactory manner the second part of the question put to him—namely, whether the humblest class of the farmer-tenantry were to be e%a" mined before the Commission ? Sir R. PEEL said that he was most anxious to Con' suit the opinions of all classes ; but still he thought that the object of the Commission would not at all be served by the indiscriminate admission of such evidence as that alluded to by the Hun. Member. THE GAME-LAWS. Mr. BRIGHT moved for a return of the number ef a persons who had offended against the game-laws , a u , had been convicted at the several sessions throug hoa " England and Wales during the year 184 a, sped the punishment and penalties inflicted. and in w° 3 county and upon whose property the alleged offence W 5 committed. Lord J. RUSSELL wished to know whether the Commission upon the land tenure in Ireland was in structed to report generally upon the subject, or to re' port upon only one branch of it, and if so, was that Per' ticular branch left to their own discretion? Sir J. GRAHAM, who spoke in an extremely 101 tone of voice, was understood to say that the nature o the Report was left wholly to the discretion of the CO' mission. FRAME-WORK KNITTERS. Mr. FERRAND said that during the last session he had presented petitions from upwards of 25,000 franc!: work knitters, complaining of the injustice done w them by their employers, and stating that the last Cor n• mission had been productive of no good results to Oleo' They now prayed for another Commission. Sir J. GRAHAM said, that at the last C omm ission gentleman named Mugeridge presided, and the filli es inquiry had been entered upon. Mr. FERRAND said, that those people complainhet t of the appointment of this g entleman, as Commission gave great dissatisfaction to them. :t Sir J. GRAHAM defended this gentleman's age''' . ment. FACTORIES BILL. The Factories Bill was read a second time. , METROPOLITAN IMPROVEMENTS BIl•-"' f Upon the Order of the Day for the third reading , e 0 the Metropolitan Improvements Bill being put by t“ Speaker, the Mr. HUME wished to ask the Noble Lord, at her head of the Woods and Forests department, ~vile the Government intended to adopt any measure, whereby to. inhabitants of those neighbourhoods where new inf l i ° , oo l ments were to be carried out, would be prevented injury to their trades caused by leaving those pla ce „n' such a state of dilapidation as they had been for an necessary length of time said . uted Lord LINCOLN the Government had a.•, ° .„ e e every means in their power to prevent the inconVe nie " to which the Hon. Gentleman alluded. . The Bill was then read a third time. On the clue tioa that it do pass— • t Mr. lIUME begged to move as an arnendalen page 2, lino 15, that the words G o vernor and Co pany of the Bank of England," be struck out. Mr. HAWES seconded the motion. The SPEAKER having put the question, wai Mr. MASTERMAN said th e H o n. Gentlema n - 0 8 perfectly right in the objection which he made: .00 (Mr. Masterman) was one of those who thought it o di most prejudicial to the interest s of the public for 1)1100 like the Bank of England to lock up their monef in t t , t he securities, because they could not readily recal it l e. an d public use. Ile very much objected to the p r inciple , the he was very glad that it had been brought before - House. Sa id t - 2 . e The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE" ot that, as he had stated to the House before, a f i o de had been given by an Act of Parliament to the and Forests to borrow money for the purpose of C'u tr i o' ing on improvements in particular parts of them e , t he polls. By that Act the power was given to bor row' money generally from the Bank of England• Tj be had been considerable competition as to who-shn h r e ffere. .4 the parties to lend the money. The terms the Bank of England had been more favourable to public than those which had been offered by any eenl, ti tt and when the plan came into execution, a legal ",," ti k was raised as to whether it was competent for the Dot, of England to lend the money—a legal opinion 7f taken, and it was in favour of the Ba nk er 0. England's - lending the money, without any alt tion of the law being requisite for the PurP ° „ 3 „ Upon the matter being submitted to him, notvv,', standing the legal authority on the question, he thoug h it better to submit it to Parliament; and, thaefor e : the present Bill was only a fulfilment of the' po wer ; given by the 4th and sth of Victoria to the W oo d s Forests to borrow money for public purposes. It way not, as he had stated before, locking I'D money in tr. same way as that which was lent up on Paortfrage. rPi money thus lent by the Bank of Engl an d wou ld be e' repaid in the course of five years ; by instalments frl time to time, as there were proceeds arising fr e de the improvements which had taken place, that it less acceptable security for private parties, but at t' ci same time it rendered it deeper security to the Ban it o England, for the money was not locked up during to whole period, but was gradually taken out from tirnee__ th o time, as he had mentioned, and the arrangement 1 fore did not appear to him to be liable to the obi to to it by the Gentleman opposite. f the Mr. HAWES took rather a different view ° it be matter from that taken by the Hon. Gentleman ` es , Chancellor of the Exchequer). Nothing was R n i°re t o tablished principle in banking than that c apital I v be invested at all ti mes i n suc h se curities as Ft 0 0 most readily conve r t e d i n t o mone y. That certai nl y not the case with th e s y s t em sugge sted in this ins . ., h i c h Would any one say that the investment was one I f be accorded with any approved banking system ? understood the Bill, it gave a clear power to . I s.. It without th e necess ity o f repaymen t f o r four Yea t i o pe4 was an injudicious use of banking capital. and ht ;ey eas the House wo u ld no t g i ve i ts sanct i on t o such a Mis%gai principle. The House had heard what had the upon the subject by his Hon. and Learned Frien%ets Member for the City of London. He did not that any ht i one who was at all conversant with helps. nig could approve o f th e course t a k e n by the The/ f Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchenuer• .metro - were were going to rai se l arge sums of money r t be coal politan improvements fro m a nother sOtirce--edient , 0 t duties, and he thought that it would be exP .1) look to that fund as a means of raising this In nlt io e ' w ple t° all events, the Bank ought RDA to set such an el the other banks throughout the country. Mr. M. PHILIPS said he quite eo ucurre 3 . t i e n t ober the le , view taken by his Honourable Friend, the ' 3 see l for the City of London. He thought Was quite inadequate, and as a merca nt , l eer r.„e his confidence in any individual banker, W i atl y e"' spectable, would be shaken, if he thought that_ o at' siderable portion of his funds were investe d Note n se i gages, and therefore not available for iln w o e f 9 1 ° He would, especially, object to the Bank , holding sec ur iti es th a t were no t th u s availa b l e :b e obj r ' c i Mr. C. WOOD said that in consequence 01 ,:' pe lt , tions which we re enter t a i ne d t o the Bank °S ,grit t advancing money on mortgage, it ha se ct 's ceased to invest money on such to sancta It would be highly in e xp e di en t for Parliament scailalLt such a practice. Th e s ecur ity wou ld not t e oe bt T er and the repay me nt was cont i ngen t. If he t nte ak ° , t i tlig there was no possibility of obtaining money t i 11- n ot source, he might be disposed to waive his ohje;,: aia 4 apprehended that such was not the fact. „Li . ihs tatil' e ; know why money should - not be obtained, I `;` tly der from the Exchequer Loan Commissioner s. to the Bid circumstances he could not give his cons ent th i s Wide Sir R. PEEL said his own opinions en tion f° the would prevent him from giving his sa ne d that . e r general principl e u p on w hi c h it was State eat en d s measure was found e d. Th ere w ere veil • its Of tions to any banking establishment adva ncing ca st s le on securities which might not be avai la u b ' e r dly Pe- ea necessity. But he really thought it was 1 ' 2. 10 .----(i'; 0 0 1 to consider this case as a violation of the ru j og otiu The total sum which it was proposed to he rr e d ora t T;tl exceed 200,000 L, and he thought the prep?. s . h u r to ment was both economical and convenient' ng that the House would not consider that, hY , this Bill, they were instituting a dangerowl,j, t he V on , Mr. rtumE said it was not the amount , gight ciple, to which h e o bj ec t e d. He hoped the iv, iii or Baronet would postpone the Bill till to;ntorr°d, t he to see if any modifications could be introdue e e tion asea in Mr. S. WORTLEY felt the same ° I l incel l ipece Hon. Member for Montrose to the prin e iP the i woe the Bill, but he thought that considering t here ° t he of the sum and the circumstances of the e_af et iug t° little danger to be apprehended from a" n OO measure Bar o netto be' Dr. BOWRING said the Rig ht nOn w . ledg ec t.,;iog ) sanctioning a principle which he aek 1W bad, and, coneurring•in the objection, he • iot r°- - o b. should oppose the measure mov• duce a limitation .for the purpose of r ;, n ot to Sir R. PEEL said, perh . aps it wouldebe_y;a: t he htto jection. • b ey - of 1 interfere with the Bank in making the _ r ot , Mr. TURNER thought that Parliarne use money. • e it ittle tai lliff Mr. GISBORNE thought this Nil mad vcrid c et on the Bank to lend their money , and he e a therefore, vote against it. re4' The House then divided, when there ail , , 45 : For the clause ........................... t Against it .............................. _ OOO, Majority ..................... ;:j ch the: o °l o , 0 0 h A provision was then agreed to, by eget ' to be lent by the Bank should not ex 13 11 1 i after which the Bill was passed. Os - BETS ON HORSE-RACING 1 3 -r4'-' 2 " the th i % p ierf Sir R. PEEL then rose to propose th a httr ies. the House be presented to the Hon. Sir Wa s g up M on which ther e, aiin Mr. HUME rose to order. He t . hong ht t he 03 Order of the Day no t disposed of; na mely ' Penalties Bill, t his was Mr. J. S. WORTLEY said, Bill,—(Laughter.) It left the laws they were gambling precisely in the sa me state,as i_ioittua re:lar: ~____ Afte; • ,