The Sun. — London, England, 1821-02-02 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT, 'HOUSE OF LORDS, FEB. 1. The House having met a quarter before four o'clock, •adjourned during pleasure. At five, the LORD CHANCELLOit resumed his seat on the Woolsack. FOREIG:C PO WERS The Earl of LlyEapooL said, that in •conse (pence of the Address presented by that House to his Majesty,.be .had beep althorited to lay on the' table a copy - Of - certain Dispatches, dated Fo reign. Office, ittly - 'IV, -- 113 1 20 - and tto Foreign Powers,.in reply to -the- Circular ii-:saed-by them at Troppau. lie should move that the said Paper he printed, and - their Lordships might be-put in possession of it tp-morrow morning. Lord HoLiAND wished to ask the Noble Lord a.e 4 t - tettlion on -a, subject so intimately connected, -with- the peace and - happiness of the world. He wished to know whether - the Paper now laid be fore the ITnlge, and which he understood. to be it denial of any obligation by -treaty on the part of this country to go to war with any Foreign State, and A disclaimer of the principle on which the4proceedings towards Naples were carried on, liad been commtmicated officially .to. thepreserrt Government of Naples, to the Courts of - Madrid an.ti Turin, to Portvgal, and to the Independent States of Italy ? The Earl of LIVERPOOL had no objection to inform the Noble Lord that the document - in question had not only been communicated to all the Governments in - Europe, but even to that of Brazils. The Paper;-on the motion of the. Nobl e. t.arl, was then ordered to be printed ; and the .house adjourned till Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. At a few minutes before four • the SPEAKER teak the Chair, and: some. time was occupied-in transacting public business. TIOTLOITGH• OF GItAMPOUND. Lord J. RUSSELL innueht in a Bill for the Disfranchise ment of the• Borough of Grampound, which w=is read a first time, and the second reading ordered to stand for Mon day next. • A MEMBER moved for Accounts of all Coals exported from the ports situated on the Rivers Tyne and Wear, during the yea' ending uu the 10th of October last. Mr. - W. DUNDAS presented a Petition signed by ia,ooo of the Inhabitants of the City of Edinburgh, praying for the . restoratiorr of the Queen's Dame to the Liturgy.—Ordered to .be printed. Mr. KENNEDY presented a Petition - from the town of Dalreitir,in - the County of Ayr, praying for the restoration of her Majesty's name to the Liturgy, &c.—Ordered t& be printed. A similar Petition was presented from a Royal Scotch Borgli, whose name. we could not ascertain.. Sir G. ROBINSON presented a: Petition to the same effect from the town of Northampton; it whs signed by. 1660 per sons, and he could answer, from his - own knowledge,•for the Trspectability of the signatures,. which had been obtained at a public meeting. The petitioners, in the sentiments they expressed, anticipated the feelings 6f the whole- people of England. With regard to.tbe Milan Commission, they thought that the whole proceedings gave indication of a foul conspi racy, and - all the circumstances Conflicted with it Called for a rigid int - Lino% :Mr. DICKENSON presented a similar Petition from the Freeholders and Inhabitants - of Shepton Mallet. • dr. P. MOORE presented, a similar Petition from a Lodge of Odd Fellows at Monmouth; he had introduced the peti tion on a previous occasion, hut had advisedly withdrawn it. to make some alterations in its fOrm..lt• isas . now re modelled, and, as he considered it, wholly unexceptionable. Mr. LAMBT(IN -presented a Petition from the town of Yerchea, in Yorkshire, fur the restoring her Majesty's name tn the Liturgy. The petitioners had desired him to say that the inhabitants of the town, with the exception of the Post toast and•his family, and the persons connected with the taxes, were unanimous in entertaining the sentiments expres sed in the petition. Had •t hey not been abaid of its being too late to he presented to the Llotise, it would have received the signatures of all the Inhabitants of the Town, with the exceptions which they had.pointed out. • Lard A. HAMILTON presented a Petition from the Royal Sec - itch, Burgh of Whitehot n.•pravit.g that her Majesty's name be restored to the La urgy.—Ordrritl to he printed. Mr. 111:M E presented a similar Petition from Selkirk.— Ordered to be printed. • • Lord MILTON presented a Petition from Gainsborough, praying for the restoratioo•of her Majesty's name tu.the Li tort:ye—Ordered to he printed. Mr. HOBHOUE presented a Petition to the same effect, from the Parish of St. tieorges, , Hanover•square. Mr. BEAUMONT in presentioz a Petition from, the County of Cumberland, praying, for the restoration of her Majesty's' name to the Liturgy, and an initially into flip Mitan Commis sion, would state to the House the peculiar eircums,tances tinder which the Meeting had been called. The Requisition ists who. assembled the county were - a body of meta of very large property and high character. Yet they had been com pelled to cali the Meeting themselves. becaose when they signed a it , qnisition to the High Sheriff, requesting him to do so, he had, withont - assigning any. reason - tor .his conduct, take!, upon himself to refuse a compliance with their'wishes.' The opinions expressed by the Petitioners were precisely those which he himself I Mr. Beaumont) 'held. He ardently hoped that an inquiry would be instituted into that disgrace ful Commission upon which the late proceedings bad been founded. Sir M. RIDLEY could not allow the Petition to be brought up without bearing testimony to the correctness of what his lion. Friend bad stated, with regard tin the weight attached tothe - tignatures, for character anti respectability. As•to the prayer of the Petition, that was mit a timeto enter WO such a subject. it had been already discussed, and opportunities still remained, when those discussions would be renewed.— Bast - this he must state, . justice to the-Petitiemers-- 7 they asked for nothing noire than a common right, when they de sired;that her Majesty should lie cdosidered, and treated, as a persnin legally • acquitted. He ova; convinced that nothing would give satisfaction to the country. but the - dismissal of Ministers.: . • Mr. G. BENNETT did not know by what right - any pt r son, fulfilling the office of High Sheriff, could refuse to as sertible a County when cal-led Upon by such Requisitionists.-- An Hontiorahle Frieud of-his who : pr.:sided at tine w Meet ing, afterards • stated, that the landed property let the County belonging to the persons who called the Meeting produced to them nn annual income of itro,oool. It was little too mostly fir a person, whose name bad scarcely ever te•ro 'ward , lenore, and whose person was me more koown than if he loot uteri in tine of tar . dirty alleys Lrimion, to pre-untie to set up his judgmentagaii.st that of the iudi vidnals who signed • the Requisition. But he suspected that he had not sated upon his own judgment, hot under the direction of others. The Lost! Lieutenant (the Duke of Northumberland)-was at the head of the hole and cornier gentry in that. Connty, and they bait been working in their holes and throwing .up their dirt 11l e moles,. in the way of getting up a loyal declaration. The Noble butte had said, that fur the purpose - of such a loyal. der halation, it NV.-1%5 not necessary to call a county meeting." ma the fact w:ns, that they did -not want a meeting, because , their mock loyalty, their sham loyalty, would hate been dike . ) from the field by the independence of the County; Their loyalty . was MO loyalty to the King, lint to his Majesty's •M inisters. Tire Ho nourable Member remarked on passazes - of the Loyal Art -41: ess from Narthtimberland, and hoped that ail such pro ceedings would. be set at lest. They went to affix the gr:•ssest libels upon the people.—The Petition was ordered to hr printed. Ln,rd•MOUNTCHARLES mused for Copies of an War matimi tinder a hie!) a warrant had been •iasited, and-Slat lionise of a certain individual timid been entered linden - the pretence of searching for illicit spirits.—Ordered. Colonel DA VI ES gave notice of a inoti:nn for to-morrow, for a return of the numbers of M litia new 'embodied : •also for certain accounts of Arrearrdue in that sereice. A new Writ was ordered for the Borough of Newton, Hants, in the room of one of its late Mt-Wires, deceased. Nlr. CALVE:I4:r moved for certain PApers all4l Aceo!mts cititiccted with the Court of Requests •iu the liorutigh. o! Stwthwark.—Ordered. _ The Accoinitant•Grorral of the Court of Chancery ap peareri at the liar of tire House, with certain papers On. sii , eted with the Court of Chancery.—Laid on the table, Sir R. ‘I , ILSON noised for Copies of a Circular which had been sentrtn tie alit crent nt Pure'ign C.burts, (Utica Fore Offiet; the i9th of July, 142 Q.—Ordered. TIIE NA'rioNAT. DEBT. Mr. 'J. P. (;RANt moved for Accounts of the total amduht of -the..-National. Debt .of ,Great Britain and Irelah&-ot 'the end of every from 1786 down toli.'2l inclusive ; distinguiSh- ing the amount)of total Charge; upon the Funded Debt. Also for - Accounts of the Aus trian and Portuguese Loans. Mr. JAM LS said, thit — the hiinattirarafidihipre cedented distress which weighed upon all classes of he community, and under which,they were now groaning, was the con,equence, of that enormous ta.:attbn crated try:the:National Debt ; - and he could not hittreprObate - that which he would call the dishonest encroachirients upon the fund set aside - 'fen - the purpose of. diminishing its - amount How much more honourable would it be, instead of dipping in that_ fund, to call in our outstand ing'clOts. Why not - demand from the Emperor of Austria that W . hich he owed to this country ? lie would mike that despotic gentleman pay, and thereby prevent his hostile intentions against the brave and independent Neapolitans. If he could 'afford to send armies of - observation into Italy, he certainly ought to be obliged to pay' his just dehts.L--(Hear, hear, hear !) • Mr. GRANT explained. Lord J. ItIJSELL gave notice that he should to morrow present a Petition from the Freeholders of the County of 'Dublin upon the subject of the outrage at Kilmainham. 'W. SMITH moved for an Account of all sums due from the Government of Austria to that of Great 'Britain, upon 'the loaro granted to that Tower in the years 1795 and 1797 ; together with an Accohnt of 411 dividends and sums ad vanced on the part" of Great Britain, in conse quence of the don-payment ,of the` above loans. Also,- for Copies of any Agreement or Treaty entered into between this Government and that of Austria, in the year 1795. After a few words from Lord' CATLtnE.% all and Mr. Ttiacy across ,the - table, we under stood the motion to - be agreed to: 'FOKG-Etiv OF BANK NOTES Mr. GRENFE'LL made some inquiries respect ing the final - Report of • the Commissioners ap pointe& to inVestigate' the methods for preventing the forgery of 'Bank - Notes. It was impossible to witness, and not to lament, the melancholy executions which were continually taking. place for the crime of forging Bank notes. lle wished to ask the Right lion. Gentleman opposite when the new notes-would be ready The - CH ctr,ton of the - ExeitEou'Eu made some observations iu reply. which Were inaudible in the Gallery. lie was understood•to say that the Notes. would be produced at the earliest pos sible season. The mostsanguine-hopes had been entertained that they would have been ready be fore that time. Xvery eXertion.in the pqwer of the 'Committee had been made to forward the object so desirable to all. Mr. GRENFELL did understand that the plan for the new notes was settled in February last, and he was sorry to find that it was still in a state *hich wanted hurrying and exertion. Mr.:P. GILBERT said, that the great object was to obtain from one artist .a. note which no other could produce. The most sanguinary ex- Pe ctations had b ee n entertained all along ; .but frOm time to time the specimens had progressively improved, so as to induce them to hold back for sonic time .longer. That was undoubtedly an evil, bUt not so great a one as if they were not to ailainthat perfection in'the new note Which was confidently - hoped for and expected; Mr. G. BENNETT considered that there must be _great difrictilty in - obtaining from one artist, what others could not imitate. He whs•Willing to allow that a note Might . be made more difficult to imitate than the present one, WhiCh, indeed,. afforded pecular facilities to - the forger. But he would caution the House against entertaining the erroneous idea that any note could be made which it was impossible 'to imitate. implored the House to remember, that as long as the pre smit.notes remained in Circulation,. the Bank held life and death in their hunts. . . • Mr. D. Gir.nutur explained.— Although it might not be possible to obtain a note that could not be imitated, yet by rendering the Use Of heavy machinery and other methods necessary, 'they !night place the imitation beyond the reach of persons disposed to forge. • Mr. • enitWEN was of opinion that some Bank notes had, been offered, so difficult of: imitation that they ought to have been accepted by the k A Petition was presented from-the Inhabitants of Leominster, praying for her Majesty's name to be -re - Stored to the Liturgy. scorcit LAW. , Mr. KENNEDY gave notice, that on the Bth of February-be should move for leave to bring in a Bill to alter the' mode of administering the Cri minal Law in Scotland. BREACH .OF PRIVILEGE. Sir JOAN NtWPORT said, that on a former oc casion he had notified his intention of bringing before the House a certain Paper which had been published in Tice Gazette. Be did so be cause he considered it to .be a breach of the pri vileges of that House, which had . received the. sanction of the Ministers of the Crown ;—he did, so because he considered the attack to be di rected against the liberty of speech,--he did, so because it conveyed to the Throne a censure upon the deliberatibus of that House. He would refer to*the Journals of"the 23d of May 1810,_where it was recorded by men of the most enlightened minds, that they held it as an ancient, - general l and undoubted right of Parliament to enter into a full and free debate upon any subject which came before it. Thi e s address was said to r have been laid before the Crown, and Ministers had promulgated it through the Country by means of The Gazette, as having been very graciously re ceived b,r the. Sovereign. He was sure the House -would not think it possible that it could have been laid More the King, when they reflected on the early and wholesome principles which were inculcated into his mind. It was one of the great benefits, which belonged. -- to that House, 7 that if any Member demeaned himself impro perly, throngh the medium Of the Chair he would receive a proper Teprimaud. lint these Addressers, v'ho took upon atent to judge the conduct of Parliarnen4.,:were an Ecclesiastical Body, and ouglit - to aftei444.their Ecclesiastical duties: They repiesented:Areinbers of the Op position as making violent and unconstitutional speeches, thereby producing disaffection in the land. It was . impossihl , e ; such language could get the sanction of the Throne ; it was impossible that it could countenance this mode of att.empt .ing-to:-destroy-the-xight...a.lree dehate, and t 4, vilify those who participated in th 4 exercise of that right. He was almost _ashamkto enter at length Upon the subject, but if: there was any privilege more dear to the interests of Parliament than another, it was that of free debate. ft had been stated on a former night, that Ministers had ; a right of selection in the publication of Addresses;. that none were selected whiCh were not moSera ciously received ; and that it was not likely they would publish those which expressed sentiments of disapprobation at their measures. He begged the 'House to see how far such a principle would go. It invested Ministers with the power of ,giving the Royal sanction and authority to any censure which might apply to any . class of his Majesty's subjects. lie conceived it to be im , possible for the House to doubt that ,the Address was a breach of ;privilege. Here the Hots. Mem+ ber read the ; Address from the Presbytery of Langholm, in the County of Durnfries, as it was published in The Gazette of Jan. the 2d. The passage to which he Objected, was the following :--- " We have witnessed with much concern, and we strongly deprecate the spirit of disaffeetion lately become so prevalent, from what we would term the violent and unconstitutional speeches of the Opposition, in both Houses of Parliament, and the infamous scurrility .and misrepresentation of a licentious press." The Clerk at the table •havinp.: read the pas sages in the Addresses complained of, Sir-Jolty NEWT° RT moved that it was a mani fe-SI breach of the essential privileges of this Howe of Parliament. Lord C.I3ThriIEAGII observed, that in point .of fact the Hon, Baronet ought, to have confined his motion to those parts which constituted the breach, and not have involved the whole paper, in ,which ; in point of fact, .there were many pas sages which did not come under that description. He, however, allowed that there were pas sages in it which it would be difficult to defend, .if pressed upon the notice of the House, and he was the last, person in the world to sanction any encroachment on.the privileges of that noose. It was onlr generally, and under prudential. consi derations, that he submitted it to the Right lion. Baronet whether, this was a case for pushing the matter to , its extent. Would it be advantageous, amid the multitude of libels on the House and on its MeMbers, With which the,, press teemed, to take up one insulated example, or, by doing so; provoke a general proceeding against all who of= fended, Which, if done, would entirely occupy . Parliament, for many months, and put a'StOp'to: all other business. The Right lion. Baronet had, he - Was sure, taken a more fair and liberal view of it, and he went along with him in -his statement; but he put it to hint that the matter could not be carried further than the bringing it superficially before the House (which be iyoutsi not resist), without causing a wider movement! than could be wished on either side. It appeared to him that lion.. Baronet could not have heard the full explanation given by his Right Hon, Friend (Mr. Bathurst) on a former night, other- Avise he might not have .thought even the present proceeding necessary. His .Right 'Hon. Friend had stated that the Addresses, for publication in the Gazette were selected from the whole nu I - her presented; by the Noble Secretary of State, his relative; but he had further declared that in the present instance the publication had taken place in consequence of an oversight and inad vertency, and that it occasioned regret when it was discOvered.—(Hear; hear !)-The practice was the practice of all Administrations, and was founded on the principles of sound reason and justice ; and he argued that if this was unfit for the Gazetie, so y a fortiori, were many of the Ad dresses, &c. on the Other side of the que.aion to _be ptiblished where they appeared. He was convinced; that under the explanation of his Right Hon. Friend, the Right Hon. Baronet would admit, 'that so far froth the offence being agg i raveted by the consent of Government, it came extenuated by their protest. The indigna tion of the House therefore would be misdirected in this case, and he hoped the Right Honourable Baronet would be satisfied that it was not 'that which rendered it necessary to vindicate the privileges of the House. He submitted to Honourable Gentlemen the 'expediency of not taking up any narrower 'line with regard • to the freedom of discussion in the public, 'as to. what 'Was clone or said in Parliament. Reprisals 'were the last species of warfare he should 'wish to en gage in ; but it was not to be expected that, how ever patient one side' (the Ministerial) was-in its nature - , they wer-old cuttsent to lie quietly on their backs—(A s u ff e r 'al! the libellous attacks upon them', While the other side covered themselves with the, broad shield of privilege. lie really., did not think that any public - good could accrue from this state of things ; and as it .Could not be allowed, he trusted that the present matter would not be pushed to a law and prece dent for similar occasions.- To publish any part of their proceedings was a breath of privilege ; yet. it would be strange in at"),yr one now to stop that communication which led to the discussion throughout:Abe country of -what was done by the House and by parties within it. With all due deference, then, it was tt little too, much in the Opposition in suppose ttat. there was' one party not liable to be assailed, that there was one party against which nothing must be said, nor any whisper that it could act tinconsatutionally,•whilv another was to be aspersed and vilified at,plea sure. The Right Hon. Baronet in reading the ,Address, he noticed, had riot appeared to him to read it very fairly. lie had proceeded as if it was entirely applied to the ,House, whereas';" zu _fact, it was divided into three , subjects, the speeches of the Opposition, the hhe-..phernous publications of the Press, and (whether'wisely or not) some document that had. issued from the Common Council of London, if for these obser cations he called the Learned Body to the gar of the House—if this were to he all example for bringing forward all similar offences, he would pledge himself by to-morrow, to adduce three or four - Charges - from Addresses of another kind, in which. the most unjustifiable accusations were lavished upon him and his colleagues, the most naiwarrantable motives iMputhf to them fer Their Parliamentary covduct, and, the most gross im potations upon th7ltouse,_of ccirrtiPA, --Ni'sie gard to the - people, and of other crimes. If the Gentlemen oppoSite required that they should be thus.rovered, he begged to offer his counter-pro jet.—(A laugh.)—lf there was to be one pro tected set, he contended that there ought to be another ; but as Government had disavowed its - knowledge and assent.to this publication, he hop ed that it would be deemed unnecessary to pro secute.it any further. Mr ScattLETT held that the breach- of privi lege,,committed as it was, he conceived, by an ignorant-person, would not have been,wortify of notice,.hAd it not found its way into The Guyette. This was its sting, for this was its 'sanction and the acknowledgment that it had been graciously received by the Crown. He contended that it . was a great and violent breach to characterise the debates in that 'House 'as violent and unconstitu tional. As for the apology offered, it did not appear to him to bestiflicient. He was no advo cate, and never would be for those, privileges . which would hinder the intercourse between, Members and their Constituents, between the House and the country,. through that best me dium for it, the Press; but the privileges of Par liament were given to protect it against the - Crown, and it was with regret he saw in all later transactions of this nature, that: they had been more frequently used against the people, with a sort'of jealousy of popular encroachment. Widi; - regard to this specific case 'he would - ask, i.v . ho Were the 'Opposition thus designated as insolent. ' . and factious ? Did the King know any thing of, such a body in that 'House.' Did Ministers tell him of it ? If they did, it would be more like a matter of impeachment, -than of breach of.privi-• lege. Upon the whole, however, - if any ineans; ; could be devised for putting the explanation and apolO;,ry upon the Journals, so that N;viiile the A - d-: dress remained, - its verbal excuse should not be lost,lieshould not be'averse to that course being: ad o ptv d .—(Hear:) • BITIIURST repeated the explanation which he had formerly - giiren, and which 'Lord Castle reagh had re-stated to-night. 'For the Noble' Secretarv,' whose office it was to select these Ad-. dresses, it was utterly impossible personally to!' perform that duty, and the :present had 'unfortu nately passed without observation. As for the no tification of its being.graciously,reetilVedi that was:, common to all addresses, and it was only more - . publicly applied to this as it had appeared in the Gazette. - He, upon these grounds, agreed with the suggestion of the 'Learned Gentleman'who' had just sat - down,-and requested that a, motion' might be drawn up to carry it into effect. Sir JOHN NEWPORT also assented'' to this-pro position, and Lord ,C.tstiutarAGn, to afford time for this, moved that the debate be adjourned till to-morrow. After a ,few remarks from Mr. R. G 0 the question was put•and carried. FINANCE-TFIE ttE Mr.•MABEaLtY-rose to move for a string of Papers explanatory -of the finances Of the coun try, and went at some length into the various ob-, jects -which they . embraced: [The noise of Members leaving the House prevented us-from gathering more than his general views.] -He as serted that in 22 years there wasra inference and: loss of eighteen millions, in the expence of col letting the Rev.nue. then expressed his ,re ', gret that the Minister of Finance should use the Sinking Fund for the resources of the year. Dur; ing the last eighteen years the National Debt had been augmented at the rate of 20 millions a year : till it now reached the enormous amount of 900 millions. They were at the end of six years of peace, and all the Sinking Fund had done was to realize two millions to discharge this immense had For to talk of the Sinking Fund at its nominal amount of seventeen millions was a mere fallacy. The Chancellor of the Exche quer borrowed from , this amount the whole dif ference of:the year, and tht. country saw nothin4 of the real Sinking: Fund, which was in fact no thing more than the excess of the Revenue over the expenditure.—(Hear, heat, hear!)--He diil not anticipate any great diminution of exp euces from the King's Speech, for it Merely mentioned a re duction in the militat Y. An-d_ he recollected, that though the Right Hon. Gentleman had tsti mated the expenditure of 1817 at seventeen tlting elmil istdress economy.es a No l-rieu I lions, 'vet in two years after they fo und i t at nioe. teen. How then. could they expect any more favourable Tbang,e.now ?- Nothing could c ause i t systembut a s,, could of relievethenmtshterii . d ture and the other distresses of the country but a diminution of taxation.. It was with this in view that he moved for certain of these Papers ; thaf the Wouse might see whether some reduction could be 'made, espec2lly in the house and win dow taxes. In the collectiOn of the Revenue, too, he wets certain there might be a great say:- l u g. In this country the charge amounted to Si. ls. 9d. per cent. on th e t o t a l ; and i infinitel greater, at least 21 , per n last year'as high as . 2-5. c f e r e ti l t a „ n d and it l 4 i V e as helieye4 y rQiiS ‘vas enormous, aid he was convinced that a saving of one million a'year might beinade upon Ireland. This, with the difference , between the seventeen and nineteen millions already: 'alluded to, and which was founded on the Right Hon. Chancellor's oven estimate, would - make three millions per annum of reduction to enable them, should war, 9r any other event. require -it, to meet the difficulties of the times. He .had only . to add, that he made 'these motions previon% the period for granting the Supplies', that every Gentleman might have an opportunity of examin ing the state a the finance . s, and of adopting such measuros7as their consideration suggested. lie concluded with moving for an Account of the de ficiency in the Consolidated Fund, frOm the sth , July 1820, to the sth January, 1821,-speciCying by what means the same were made good. • The CIiANCET 4 I,OII. of the ExcifEqu'Elt ob- Fer'ted that altriost all the accounts to be moved by - the lion. 'Gentleman would be included among those annually - laid before Parliament ; if however he thought that they could be produc ed at an earlier period,_and be of use in enabling Gentlemen to see their way more clearly, would not object to the motion. elVith respect to discussing the subject, it witrld be ruoreeagree 41e to him to Acit the llNl.bentletnai\'s obser 'vations hen‘tlie'rrii*Vrs it embraced came regu larly before the ItouTe; and he should therefore content. himself at present with only a few brief statements, which he-was sure the House would be glad to hear. And first he hall. to say, that • in the revenue of last year there wash considera ble -surplus.--(Hear !)—lt was with equal plea sure he had in the second place to state, that all the expellees of the current year would be met by the revenue, without havink recourse to any new loan, and without the imposi tion of any new tax.----(Hear, hear, hear !)---L-They bad now arrived at the period for which the House - and the Government had longed, when, he trusted, they might for many yeae3 bid adieu to the necessity for new }ears, or new taxes:—(Bear, hemehear!)—Under these. Circumstances, with - a: snrplas revenue, they had every reason to look for its improvement every' year, since the mere operation of compound in ,- terest must produce lhat -effect. Ale hoped thilf even the present year would pay off as mult-of the debt as the year 1:74x2, to which the Hon Mover had alluded. Ile should refer- but. o oo.e other circumstance. It appeared from the au counts on the table,- that doming- the early part of last year there had been a failure in the revenete of Customs: it would he consolatory to the floe ee to learn, that this year, so far' as the accoanf-4 could be made up. which they 'only could be in the great ports of the kingdornLethat the accounta• from:London, Liverpool-, and 1•ioil, in IS'2l, ex c-eeded the half year -ending at - the same peritri in 1820, by no less a sum on commercial exports than three and -a half millions.—(llear,-hear This was the cheering - statement he had to Mlle of the actual improvements and prospects of the' finance of the country.:(llear!) Sir JOHN Newroicr 'contended Warni•ly fora -reduction of the 'expence in•collecting the revenue in Ireland, which he represented to be excessive in the .extreme, and beyond all measure burthen some. So far from havitee diminished, it had increased more than double since 1808, and in .-stead of twine 11 per cent, the charge was nearly 2-5. - On this ground he entirely agreed With the Hon. Mover, and alSo with all his reinaeks on the sys`tem _of delusion kept .up with respect to the Sinking Fund. lie looked with much mis trust at _the statement of the Right Honourable •the Chancellor of the EXcheqner of the great increrse of Customs on the exports, ]le had often. seen an 'appearance of this kind - succeeded by ruinous consequences, the exports having been sent where _there were no -markets, only to the -loss of the exporter. Mr. P. GRENFELT, was not satisfied with : the assurance of the Right Hoti. Gentleman that -there Weald be no new loans or taxes this year. lle wished to know distinctly if there wohld any addition to -thee public debt—if there would be any funding in-addition; to•witat now existed'? Re also expressed himself hostile to the nominal, -and delusive machinery by which the sinking fund was managed, and 1 , 3 , ivhich it was, made to appear at 17, millions, when in fact it was - not morte than two. He,-wouid make a' lereat con cession to theßight.lion. Gen;lernan, and to' this twomillions would consent to-add the three mil lions he hftd assured him had accrued in addition from the cusimms. The live millions thus formed would, in truth, be the real fund, while the other was a mere fiction. The Right Hon. Gentleman would be obliged to have'reconrse e to that farce of an Act to enable the Commissioners for the liquidation of the Nationill Debt to borrow from themselves the twelve millions of deficiency. He Should be glad to know if the Right Hon. Gen tleman had any intention of getting_ rid of this, anomaly. The Hon. Gentleman then - disclaimed. all hostility .to the Bank, but insisted that the system of quarterly •boerOwing f rom i t to pay the dividends was disreputable to GoVertiment. The deficiency in the consolidated fund was now . 8,800,0001. and in this there was another fallacy. it, to ( I pth ,: i irli e e ano t r i : t i • pd l t submitted e oue t r ii ir a )oo t r i s , st t ,h l :o e - 11 . 1 1 1 (1 , f : h i : t i: R i a l l i n i n d s i Ipeeßl specifically e a t e l t i l e:e o fo t u o r . or by e issue of Exchequer' go on borrowings from the, even at the low interest of three per cent. deficiency in this fund was greater than infor mer quarters, and this led him to think there was no reason for - encouraging the hopes held out by Right Hon. Gentleman, that it woull soots correct itself. • • ~. .g ~',t .• The CHANCELLORof the Excirr o vvi agan - t expressed his desire rather to wait :for regular opportunities to discuss these important subjects,' than to enter upon a premature and- imperfect- exposition of them in the shape of answelin questions. He would, howev er , reply-Oniitiy-te nine or two points. %Vit i respect to the Mere:ll - se of eNpence in the collection of -the .Trish revciril to which the Hon. Baronet hy.l alluded", it by apparent and not real. • It arose simply the r i g 3l : c o ti n ce th ' o e r dl%ohf{:leasf.°lriwe :Fd eto fo ß !.e 3 , laying it Oil the fees of merchants. Now,•to'the principal question put to him by.-the Hon: G-eti t . • (Mr.th' en f e ll), he had distinctly to state, that at a tlie public debt would not be increased zips/ means or in`{thy way Whatever this (Hear.)----No stock 'whatever would" be created, and What was autstandinv: at present, he affirmed/ was no more than was consistent with the public: convenien.zy and service. The subject of -tbq Sinkiu4 Fund liail been often-discussed ; and ho continued to be of th e game o pi n io n he had ever been upon it. that it was far wiser to persevere in the present system, which was well and. practically understood, than to unsettle,. - un der the nrme of simplifications, the ,whole'rn thod with which pubh,i; aceountants were con ver.c.ani. 'When the time canie th a t the Sinking' ~ Fund rose above Avliiit might be considered licient -sum for the gradual reduction of the na tional debt, .then it might be. desirable to ad'ort with the 'surplus the si4vilacation now cpp4l...:ci.i