The Sun. — London, England, 1844-03-12 00:00:00

s e wed. h i idu) A s)ong as tat y required it, they it- had sought ti,_ et heissgislature to grant them protectioi! against .':_e,cisions of the courts of law, by which their rights latherties were trampled under loot. It would seem P rot n iMpossible thins , to get from the Lessis'ature a th me ee , ti °.n against the ' decisions of courts onaw w hen th oecisions deprived Arians and Uni:aleans of the property waned teurped and applied to purposes different to tho_e brie t he owners intended. Protection from the Legislature 8t th esee decisions could be obtained. There was a Bill rs.en. arlia, laid on the table of the House of Lords sl`!',e Lord Chancellor, practically for the purpose of subvert ing,.needecisions of courts of law, because those decisions took larwnceties property that never ought to have been theirs, i t , c h they misapplied to the propagation of deadly errors. lthki` t t "'n they went to obtain protection against decisions et, tratnelled their movements, and thwarted their efforts to falsekit'ione the waste places of their native land, then no legion. sots ° protect them could be obtained. The decisions of the i ht ,.." e of law were enforced with the utmost rigour; on the t i v a n title of those decisions , the Home Secretary laid down, ;he bad ement of P arliament, and said that the principles a 4 t' '.ch the tteruish. How f ar h e h a d succee d e d l et t h e prosper i ty o f Gee r a,e Church in Scotland tell !—(Loud cheers.) Let its sters, its 200 probationers, its 3,000 elders, and its lati o °ll pf People, tell !—( Cheers.) In proportion to the popu eiliinot this was the same as if 5,000 ministers, and six or seven tst is t !' of people, had seceded from the Church of England. th e 'us tell how far the Home Secretary had succeeded. Let 411Z et ines in England —let such meetings as the present Chute, successful he was.—( Cheers.) The stablished ith," as it remained, had excommunicated Christendom; si a `u t eut off from itself the communion with all the Christian tho e "' in the world; surely it ill became her to make he r aeseagainst others of alienation and disaffection towards he Was now endeavouring to take the places of worship 1,014 the money of those who had joined the Free Church the l "' e rn. Standing, like Shylock, on the bond—on what pi tee e s tter of the law would give her—she took to herself these Ithe ct w ftabip, and even the buildings erected by the efforts tae it Missionaries. And, as if to crown all, she was labour ell lb an s f Y parts of Scotland to keep the a dh eren ts o f th e F ree t4 cli of th . °c l having a shelter over them from the inclemency d ad , wint er ' s sky. He would not allude to what had been trot nett county, but he would read an extract from a letter c 'tc which stated that a congregation had been fontltped to meet t in the open air, when there was snow a atpr "P on the ground. He admitted that objectionable h e :icons had occasionally been used, but, on that subject, Otte "l4 saY, let those who were faultless cast the first stone. oaf,of that the charge was not very extensively applicable, be found in the fact that their opponents were obliged *ere a . r ecourse now to the same hackneyed anecdotes which ss _ t it:e twelve months back.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) theeritted that they were opposed to the Established Church ; (Cie 4i n t st be so as long as it continued in error.— ( 4 ,„Ost el e e ' o ." Rear, hear.") That which justified their conduct aotit r ll- 7 4 atilY be condemnatory of their opponents.— t They firmly believed that that institution could anti l'er, and must come down. Truth was mighty and qui Ultimately prevail. The true seeret, the true philosophy, her 1 4CIIS !uption of the Scottish Establishment was found . in she i s - L :l'4 evangelism, in the growing fidelity with winch !ere i,:",tifYing against error and sin. Everywhere . there • tli' s - e ing indications of a great league between the infidel ter s i - papa power. It was high time that they should o ast er e : u t of sleep ; it was high time that the old Highland Jae " Shouldes to shoulder," should be raised amongst , s '"estisf ss , ( if Fite Lord's host , that so they might be ready, in lee migh t Phalanx, to " come to the help of the Lord against • j " ged 42.111 3 FORREST, an elder of the Free Church of Scot paseat addressed the meeting. He said it should not be " tits tie `o that the question which they had heard mooted that tl !ey ll, W as a clerical question, although it was one in which IN — ', from the first, felt the deepest interest. Their !Pet:ail friends had not been contending for clerical power, ek•t?e interests of their own order, but for great principles, ge ott Zn all were interested. It was for this reason that the 40 4 of,,_People had supported them in their struggle. A wt and- Ilterth7orle had already joined the protesting Church, t 'tad 'gnes were at that moment rising in all parts of Sc . o - %eel there was a necessity for instant and immediate assist *ire), Eight hundred churches were being built, and others „ n templation • and in such instances it was neces . sa . ry a 'ts Of% strenuous'efforts.—( Hear, hear.) Their min s- 7 Made great and noble sacrifices; many of See " c ' e ls were worshipping, as yet, under the e te a s s af ,fleaven.--(Hear, hear.) He was happy to say that t tabirs' ° England met with the kindest sympathy. Even in t i Lai% in spit e o f a ll th e p re j u di ces exc it e d aga i ns t th em , ile s .o been r ece i ve d w i t h t h e greatest ki n d ness, an d t h ey t ai t;7 to derive cons id era bl e su pp or t f rom th a t town. ) T ..—. e 4 . o-morrow they proposed to visit another strong lot the enemy —Oxford, where they hoped, notwithstand- Nee, c haracter of the University, to meet with similar Chetah) eiaenT n • and Rev . B. W. NOEL said he had had great cause a s'efOt -- ",fle the p it; 411 s and conduct of the Free Church hsg'inff principles e adhesion to the cause ; and ho s'ets self be to beable to state publicly that both se "eh hi s ( Cries of " Hear, hear.") t lee ord entire approval.— I t eselee tn ce with his views on this subject, he had to propose k . h e which trusted would be adopted by the meeZt s4oinhat this meeting, having heard the statements of the renews its expression of gratitude, for enabling s . s ~ 6ti ministers in Scotland to witness before the world this hi s el nifes sion o f the supremacy of Christ and the spirituality lohehnrch, an d learns with delight that such a large pro- Mie r ; ° f the people of Scotland adhered to their faithful d ;) and their testimony for truth in a day of peculiar trial, a Ympathising in the privations to which ministers ; _miste o ,"P'e have been subjected, and at the same time recog tlis'4t h indree Church an instrumentality which promises, klen d : of the quickening Spirit, and in friendly co elltiown with other evangelical churches, to revive the ari t!' of Scotland, besides largely aiding in the , lanisation 4nd er the of the world, this meeting resolves . Free Church its best assistance in g Plaeesof wo rs hi p f or i ts adhering people."—(Cheers. ) t es olutien di v i ded itself into four particulars. First, it ired the justic e of the principles upon which the free soessch was founded ; expressed approval of the pa -_ tot of those who maintained aeeouy ' these principles ; thirdly, it t4 t aid a 4 e ttii them fo . r sympathy with them in their sufferings s ,th e their fidelity had exposed them ; and lastly it pointed te e° sequences which m i g ht b e expecte d to resu l t f rom g etit• t e ,"aciples, their conduct, and their su ff er i ngs . Th e R ev . "'tie M ars then went on to show how in each of these k eeti4 - 11. _ . 8 th e reso l u ti on was wor thy o f a d op ti on b y th e rat, th s ' He said he did not hesitate to declare his conviction th; Prit.cipl es o f t h e F ree Ch urc h were so und to the care. mte : ati to him that these principles were resolvable iothefirst °; the' t he second that of the spiritual liberty tss,44 t 0 lurch . By non-int r usion he meant that no minister t th, '°teed upo n a re l uc t an t Christian congregation, but the ,'sent of the congregation must be obtained in order "kiseio scrination of the pastoral relation.—( Cheers.) That ifi irap o ' i t a ta wal one of the simplest common sense. Ina relation t „ z it, aiscl upon which so much of the happiness of a th i lpe ol Van, or district depended, it was not reasonable that le let s ,: should be debarred the right of protesting against t. sselh, Uction of an unspiritual and unconverted minister. Ostk;;', G eutlercian then - referred to a number of scriptural "or the purpose of showing that this principle was in , ttikissothee with the practice of the primitive Church. Hooker p ss be k:cla s tiented to the principle that a minister was not l ies nded against the consent of the people ; and both l's'ga s , a nd Episcopalians in great numbers had • - ‘est s t he same principle. In the Saxon, in the French pl c i 4 in the Helvetic, and in many other churches, the Ik e a di i i t. ! ° question—the principle of the Free Church—had •bt ahei 14etly recognised. Were not this the case, however, e et, a i !ers of the Scotch Church would still be worthy the r t e4 .l 4 Maintaining what bad been the principle of t ' t e t t de, tablishreent from the very earliest period ?—( Cheers. 47a, 4 d itriciple could only be sustained by the aid of a r weli of larger 'atger principle—that of the spiritual liberty of the gist ,Christ. This was, in substance, that the Church sZty, ais sooeld in every land, and in all its branches, be at tlejao,restrained by y stranger power, to fulfil all the .Christ. T a h u e - ministers of the Church could not It 4 0 ., others, for any emolument, or on any ground,_ the ne es 1; 0 ,2 diet authority which had been entrusted to themalo kN",I; of las e es %Z i a* its_then ere to determine the meaning of . Christ's ' might the Church itself trample on his coen treeNth:juience to the law.--( Hear.) There was . a great * s t ers o f w , s en the claims of Papal ministers and those of had atipsh re Scotch Church. The Church of Rome te,,,,,ith th e u itself with the civil power, and sought to load its sk i i4u tect• e thunderbolts of the State. 'I he Church of Scotland l• sh a,sti sid sa w ' such aid. There might be danger where an , ;cs *he r ° ite ° !Pooration separated from the laity were erecting eitotho spiritual despotism ; but there could be no danger . t ifV‘t th:erY authority exercised would not be exercised Se.% 1 „, eonsent of the people.—(Cheers.) The charge tiftt' chi c k -4 Pation a eared to him wholly factitious, and the %Aer t 'ceded pp h support must be feeble indeed.— e in suc quieted the the . Cburch of Scotland which might r t 'ad fears which had been . entertained?—(Hear,... reference to the manner in which these principles e, t ate ue en style th-4intaieed, he demanded from the meeting admire tsd rtee...,eourage and prudence which had been displayed. thtttlie dissentleman then referred at length to the Veto law iesttllaW ilP i tte With respect to it. To the establishment of iee pry ttributed great benefit to the Scotch Church.. he,cegttaded to notice at some length the charge of vio '01:1_ be s g s c , which had been brought against Dr. Chalmers, ere-t'oßised as one whose writing, wisdom, and bene- St ess t 'tite e e qually blended, and who would live in the minds es et rter t ' h as he now lived n the hearts of thousands. He St o ,lg o t t. the seceders had done the noblest act which the rith`, l c desad witnessed. If the Scotch Establishment fell, 'to CeVe to fall or deserting the principles which it nePtie aye M aintained. But he diought a day was dawn , lito-Zseeedreotland which it was impossible to describe. L t itl7, afesgtninisters remained true to their principles the ''paysked WRS such as ought to till every Christian heart ed Were in that country 500 Dissenting chapels ; L et a aoliT ss es of worship belonging to the Free Church N° 41 4 7 of erection, and the ministers of these last etlet beet, t cr amPted in their movements, as they , had s'st 'ne se ssslit were missionaries to every part of Scot.and, , Is t k ith cue s , - -instance s it was not too much to expect h l / 4 (L- se tt e tho rn Parish would '- be found testifying their ap se, Veer s . ) trinciples which men had condemned.— s s ,t e s .° Pla ss 'c'neland itself might be benefited by what kt'itlee reinie-Z-(Rear)—but whether that were the case or teed. to — y r s of the free church would be equally tttit admirati principles to which 0 hn ., 4 _ on. The two i l ue s t eno .were destined to be the h kpZ; it the s e ,,,!„ b :t of . all Christendom..—( d C e s er i s m .) er T i,h he . ( e7t t4 'lid historyliv vu e l i e gx ' i niste . rs had commit would be te re w c a ordeir as the tti4e rs.) enl which , and it present age.— t he roe: Fonclusion hT a a ur o r l e o ised for having so long de est,i u ng p g ed e • D r. 4,, rircintn seconded the motion, which was joli eeti zionsiy. rt e . p. 7 was then made in aid of the building fund. t 4t , t 4 l l s Ir e sas CalsnLisn then came forward to address the 1 01 .. I ;,Y gi st I d the sympathy which had been manifested tatig. 'or .1 1 tt "' e c . c tin. was an ample recompense, if any were istlntfu l s s It was hick they had suffered in the defence of their tl t 'nel s „tie seoi.!_lutettost cheering to him and to all the deputation, ZOlt ss!'_'ey had noes advocated and pressed home with a power t , mast •seen since they were first put forth by aq r e so ught th e Prit . , Dr. Chalmers.—(Cheers.) They _es.etgislature to look at this question ti fr ast i t.a ...i .b n e t e l ie t ° : s e tish statutes, and Scottish practices; ' et qc,l o Lt e at in l . fusal to do so, they were now engaged in thi:ist l ;7t hi stor z•neland itself.—( Cheers .) Throughout the the N t lo wh i ,Y of Scotland they had maintained the p t w it a ti a eo c 0 they ' seceded to be vital and fundamental; t k so ot krsu e d le °Pen to them, therefore, but that which ta > sl ow est t ;_ Nothing had so sustained their minds in 04 0. , ot e l to ,15 circumstance that they had never had Pe a, to re ,„,"le path of duty.--( Loud cheers.) He then wes a 7 Wrir) ! to some accusations made against him in a tijk add re-_n against the Free Church and concluded a E te of tl. " amidst loud plaudits. 'edg ed 'guil ts h a . the meetvitug been given to the Chairman, and ng dispersed. ac • 4 tie lis, e vi e ei ltf . ndrep ers 0 koqgh t. °l.4 hav e a ' ° Kee of Woolwich, Greenwich, r, 14 ,. n i ,,, ths greed to close their shops at early hours, Stas--then a , i;t eight o'clock in the evening except estat stt n;_s_o.alfspast ten; and in May, June, July, " Le ' aud on Saturdays at eleyen. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF LORDS, March 11. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Wool sack at five minutes after Five. The Earl of RADNOR presented a petition from the county of Somer:et, praying for the removal of all duties on the necessaries of life, and that there should be a revision of the whole system of the taxa tion of the country. The petition was agreed to at a meeting presided over by the High Sheriff, and which had been called by a requisition very numerously signed byfreeholders. The meeting, he should state, was called for a very different object than that which was the result of it. It was called for the purpose of passing resolutions in favour of what was called pro tection. That was the avowed object of the meeting. A motion was made in support of Legislative protec tion, considerable discussion took place upon it, and an amendment, embodying free-trade principles, was submitted. This was put to the meeting ; and, as decided by the high Sheriff, it was lost—the original resolution, in favour of protection, being declared by him to be carried. On this, parties became dissatisfied, and much altercation ensued. The Sheriff was required to put the resolution a second time, and he refused to do so. But in consequence of this, when a petition to Parliament embodying the resolution was brought forward, a petition embodying free trade principles was also brought forward by way of amendment. This amended petition was car ried by a very large majority, and a vote of thanks passed to the Anti-Corn-law League. These were the circumstances as represented to him. In general it happened unfortunately that the protectionist party objected to discussion. Their meetings were select and exclusive. This he could speak to from personal experience ; for only the other day he went to a meet ing called (as the notice said) to discuss this question, but when he got there he received an intimation that it was of a private character, and he consequently w ithdrew at once. The Anti-Corn-law League had been accused of sending their emissaries through the country for the purpose of creating discord and disunion. Now he denied distinctly and emphatically that the Anti-Corn-law League was at all capable of any such act as promoting any societies that would have a tendency to promote disorder or discord, and he defied any one to show that they had ever, by word or deed, justified such an accusation. He thought the subject of free trade was one of such im portance as to call for a distinct expression of opinion on the part of those who were entrusted with the in terests of the country. Lord PORTMAN wished to say a few words upon this matter. His Noble Friend had stated that that petition had emanated from the major.ty of the persons present at the meeting. In any assertions he should make, he did not mean to allude to the Noble Lord's brother, the High-Sheriff of the county, who presided upon the occasion, but still he (Lord Portman) thought that a meeting, which was composed of only 3,000 persons (and those mostly town inhabitants), could not be construed into an expression of the opinion of a county containing upwards of half a million of souls. For his own part, he had all along abstained from tak ing part in the proceedings of either the Anti-Corn-law League or the Anti-League Association. For, on the one hand, he thought it dangerous to carry, by a legisla tive enactment, the total, immediate, and unconditional repeal of the corn-laws; and, on the other hand, he, thought it equally dangerous to affirm that the present sliding scale should not be interfered with, because it was partially a system of pro hibition. Under these circumstances, he was a sort of amphibious animal, between the two parties. and could take part with neither. He hoped yet to see the day, when both would be disposed to meet upon his view of the question. Lord BROUGHAM wished to explain the circum stances under which he had made the observation re ferred to by his Noble Friend (Lord Radnor). He (Lord Brougham) had not been present at the meeting, but he had received a com munication from a highly respectable gentleman connected with the county of Somerset, who assured him that the account of the proceedings which had been published were altogether erroneous. lie (Lord Brougham) differed altogether, upon this question, from the Hon. Gentleman, and the latter had thought that on that very account he was a fit person to be applied to to give an impartial version of the conduct of the High She riff (Mr. Bouverie), who seemed to have acted very fairly and justly, according to the way in which such things are done in Somersetshire.—(A laugh.) The resolution first submitted to the meeting was in opposition to the views of the League. An amendment, in favour of the League, was then proposed, which, after some discussion, the Sheriff properly put to the meeting before the original motion, according to the usages of both Houses of Parliament and well-regulated meetings gene rally. Mr. Bouverie, upon the show of hands, declared the amendment to be lost, and the original re solution carried. A great part of those assem bled then went away, and afterwards the amendment was again put, and declared to be carried by a larger majority than had carried the original reso lution.—(A laugh.) That was a course of proceeding peculiar to Somersetshire.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) But at reminded him of what was once said by an old sergeant-at-law, upon the Western Circuit, that " the further he went west, the more he was convinced that the wise men came from the east." He did not agree with his Noble Friend Lord Portman, that a meeting of 3,000 was not adequate to express the sense of a county containing 500,000. He had some experience in county meetings, and thought 3,000 were more adequate to express the sense of the county, and to discuss a ques tion, than 40,000 would be.—(Hear.) He disapproved as much as any one could of the violent charges which were made against the League, that they were inciting the people to capital crimes —(Hear, hear)— but it was to he recollected that there was as great a fault on the other side. A gentleman, lecturing in favour of the League, once asked his auditors, what could they expect from the Iron Duke—meaning his (Lord Brougham's) Noble Friend the Duke of Welling ton—who had put to death men, women, and children at the siege of Salamanca ?—(A laugh)—a place at which there was no siege.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) It Was a very common thing for certain persons to im pute murder to the landowners, because they advocated protection. It was also said, too, that they were blas phemers whenever they read the Lord's prayer. Persons using such language as this did more harm to their cause than they did to their enemies'. Lord RADNOR explained. The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that after what his Noble and Learned Friend had stated, it was hardly necessary for him (the Duke of 'Wellington) to address their Lordships. He had received a letter from a gentleman in Somersetshire, giving him an account of the meeting which had been held there. That gentleman stated that, after the original resolution was carried, an amendment was moved, and was carried by a considerable majority; but he stated in the strongest terms that that majority consisted, not of the persons by whom the meeting had been called in the first instance, but were persons not capable of deciding such a question. With respect to the speech of an Hon. Member of the other House of Parliament, made at 'Warwick, and which had been alluded to by the Noble Earl, all he (the Duke of Wellington) could say was, that he had never heard of such a speech. With respect to the abuse which the Noble and Learned Lord had alluded to, he could only say that all their Lordships came in for a share of their abuse, and he would recommend them to bear their fate tranquilly. He was not at all ashamed of his opinion with respect to the corn-laws, and he ear nestly recommended their Lordships to leave the corn laws as they were. That was his opinion, and he was not ashamed to avow it.—(Hear.) The Duke of RICHMOND said he was glad this discussion had taken place. For the last two or three years the Anti-Corn-law League had been in the habit of abusing everybody. They were continually going about the country stating things which were as often proved to be untrue. They had repeatedly stated than farmers of England were in favour of a free trade in corn. The tenantry of England were independent men, and they had now themselves come forward in op position to the Anti-Corn-law League. • It was a great misfortune to the Anti-Corn-law League that they in dulged in inflammatory language. It was this that had induced him (the Duke of Richmond) to join a protec tion society. He thought the conduct of the Anti-Corn law League had been most atrocious from the begin ning. It appeared that at the meeting in Somer setshire a lecturer of the League had attended. Lle had been in Bridegwater two or three days before, and had organised a set of men to attend the meeting. This was the manner in which the farmers had been treated. He (the Duke of Richmond) always thought that unbought opinions were the best, always barring, of course, the opinion of lawyers. Lord BEAUMONT denied that any attempt was made at the meeting in Yorkshire to impute criminal motives to the Anti-Corn-law League. The fact was, that, at the latter end of that meeting, the persons who came in, and carried the amendments, were the more idle and dissolute portion of the town population. He denied that they could expect so much international traffic as that anticipated by the Noble Lord. When the duty upon American ground corn was reduced to 45., was there any concomitant reduction of the duty upon British manufactured goods ? What had the people of Bir mingham gained by the reduction of that duty? and, by analogy, what might they expect from any further re duction of those protective duties? Earl RADNOR regretted that his Noble Friend had misunderstood him. He (Earl Radnor) did not com plain of any gentleman explaining his views on any sub ject. He did not complain of any gentleman explaining his opinions at a public meeting. He denied the assertion of the Noble Lord, that any mem ber of the League had ever gone about de livering lectures which had the slightest ten dency to inflame the minds or passions of the people. It was with great regret he heard the declaration of the Noble Duke, that there would be no alteration in the corn-laws. It was a declaration for protection at a time when the principle of free trade was making the greatest progress in France, America, and other countries. (The Noble Lord then read an extract from a pamphlet re cently published by Mr. Colquhoun, a candidate for the Presidency, avowing his determination to oppose to the uttermost the principle of protection.) This country (continued Earl Radnor) had been proceeding for the last twenty years upon the principles of free trade. It was absurd to stop short in the progress. They should either go forward or go back.--(Hear.) The Duke of RICHMOND then presented a petition from Guildford in favour of the existing corn-laws. PRIVY COUNCIL APPELLATE JURISDICTION BILL. Lord i3ROITII4III, in moving for the appointment of the Select Committee to which this Bill should be re ferred, said that he had seen some attacks made upon himself in respect to it, which could only have emanated from wilful Calumny, or her bastard sister Falsehood, begotten by the Father of Lies, upon the weakness of human nature.—(A laugh.) If he meant, as was said, to make a place for himself—if he became tainted with the vice of old age, avarice—from which he had been free all his life—he might have taken the place when it was offered to him, three or four times. He brought in this Bill in the first instance, when it eould have been carried as a Government measure, because the arrears of appeal business in the House was increasing every year, and could not be kept down by the present arrange• ment. lie (Lord Brougham), the Lord Chancellor, and other Lords were occupied six hours a-day, four days of the week, and yet the business could not be gone through. The Noble and Learned Lord then mow d, that the names of the Lord Chancellor, Lord Cottenham, Lord Denman, Lord Campbell, Lord Tenterden, and several other Lords should be appointed as the Select Committee to consider the Bill. Lord CAMPBELL said, that in going into Committee, he must say that he was strongly opposed to deputing the apellate jurisdiction of that H ouse t o any ot h er body. After a few words from the LORD CHANCELLOR, the motion was agreed to, and the Committee appointed. THE NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT. - _ In answer to a question from Lord BROUGHAM, Lord WHARNCLIFFE said the new House of Lords was now raised above the ground about 25 feet, and it would be covered in in about two months. The House of Commons was at present only about nine feet above the ground. He had consulted the architect re specting the probability of the new House being ready for their Lordships' accommodation by the next session of Parliament. The architect had stated that it would be ready for their Lordships. provided they would be satisfied with temporary fittings. Those temporary fittings, of course, would require a sum of money, and it would be for the House of Commons to say whether they would grant that sum. The architect said it would not be safe to fit up the new House with permanent fit tings by the next rsssion of Parliament. Lord BROUGHAM said temporary fittings would cost very little, and he had no doubt the House of Com mons would willingly make a grant to defray the ex pense. - Lord CAMPBELL thought every effort ought to be made to get into the new House as soon as possible. Lord SUDELEY thought there was ample time before the next session of Parliament to get the new I:ouse permanently ready. He thought the architect's plans ought to be laid on the table of the library, so that every Noble Lord might have an opportunity of inspect ing them. Lord COLBORNE thought it would be most impolitic to hurry on the building. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought it would be better to go into the new House in the next session of Parliament, even if they had temporary fittings. Lord BROUGHAM said his Noble Friend near him (Lord Colborne) need not warn them of being in a hurry—(Laughter)—they might as well warn the Court of Chancery not to be in a hurry.—(Laughter.) It was now ten years since it was promised that the new Houses of Parliament should be completed in seven years. He agreed with his Noble Friend (Lord Sude ley) when he said that the plans of the architect ought to be laid on the table of the library, and he hoped his Noble Friend near him (the Marquis of Clanricarde) would move for the re-appointment of the Committee on this subject. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE then moved for the re-appointment of the Committee ; and after a few words from Lord Wharncliffe, Lord Brougham, and the Duke of Wellington, the motion was agreed to. The Duke of BUCCLEUCH presented a petition from Edinburgh, against altering the corn-laws, and took that opportunity of declaring that he had not altered his opinion, which entirely concurred with that of the petitioners. The Duke of RICHMOND presented a similar pe tition from a place in Surrey. EXCLUSION OF CATHOLICS FROM JURIES. Lord CAMOYS presented a petition from " the Ca tholics of England," complaining of the exclusion of Catholics from juries on account of their religious opi nions, and of the uwfair manner in which the jury-list was struck on the occasion of the late trials in Ireland. The petition was understood to be that which was agreed to at the great meeting held at the Freemasons' Tavern recently, when the Noble Lord presided. It was signed by 3,740 persons. THE CASE OF THE REV. MR. MARSH. Lord GIFFORD put a question to the Bishop of Pe terborough as to what steps had been taken in the case of the Rev. Mr. Marsh, a rector and prebend in the Rev. Prelate's diocese. The Bishop of PETERBOROUGH had not expected that an 7 question would have been put that evening upon that painful subject, which he regretted to say had been made the occasion of some undeserved strictures upon himself. The Church Discipline Act prevented him from punishing any offence committed two years back, or out of the diocese. This prevented him from visiting any punishment on the reverend offender, other than to forbid his performing any service in the diocese, THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, MARCH 12, 1844. for Stockport, whether it was h's intention to proceed to-morrow with the motion of which he had given notice, for a Select Co mm itt ee t o i nqu i re i n t o th e ef fects f protective duties on imports upon the interests of the tenant-farmers and farm-labourers in this country ? Mr. COBDEN said, that thinking it would be in convenient to proceed with the motion to-morrow, it had been his intention to postpone it ; but finding that, if he did so, there wo u ld be n o c h ance o f it s coming on before Easter, he had determined to adhere to the notice. Mr. MONCKTON MILNES gave notice of a motion for a lithographic print of the arch to be erected in front of the British Museum.—(Laughter.) THREE-AND-A-HALF PER CENTS. AN NUITIES ACTS. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, that the Order of the Day for bringing up the Report on those Acts be read, Mr. HINDLEY asked the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, when he would be prepared to lay the papers respecting Otaheite on the table of the House? Sir R. PEEL said they were in the course of pre paration, and would be laid before the House as soon as possible. The Order of the Day was then read, and Mr. GREENE brought up the Report. On the question that the Report be received, Mr. HUME said that, as he was not present when this question was brought on, he was anxious to make a few observations connected with it, and which, in his opinion, the House ought to take into considera tion. As far as he was able to judge, the Right Hon. Gentleman had made a very fair arrangement; he had performed the duty which he owed to the public and himself in an excellent manner, and with a kindly feeling to the parties concerned ; but what he wished to press on the Right llon. Baronet at the head of the Government was this, that the income of a large portion of the community would be considerably lessened. The situation in which the public would be placed was extremely unsatisfactory. The estimates were kept up to a war establishment, but the means of income to the people was reduced. Ile thought the public had a right to expect the diminution of taxes that interfered with industry. He did not wish to throw any difficulty in the way of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but he was anxious that the public generally should profit by some measure which Govern ment ought to introduce. He took it for granted, as a matter of course, that the income-tax would be put an end to after next year, and he thought that the estimates might and ought to be reduced to a peace establishment. He felt convinced that unless the House took the course he had pointed out, they would create great dissatisfaction. The resolutions were then read a second time. The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER rose and said, I am anxious to correct a misappre hension which prevails with respect to the conditions made applicable to the Three-and-a-Half per Cent. Annuities of the year 1818. I find from those or gans of communication to which we all have access, that I was understood to say that the Government was limited, and that they could only pay off that Fund at 500,000/. at a time, and that in consequence it would take a long series of years before the reduction could take effect. Now, the law does not bear that construction, and it is not what I stated. The construction of the law is, that the Government having given six months' notice, may pay off the whole if they please, but must not pay off at one time a less amount than 500,000/. The resolutions were then agreed to. The CHANCELLOR of — the EXCHEQUER then moved that the Speaker give notice forthwith, that the Three-and-a-Half per Cent. Annuities of the year 1818, created by the 53d of George 111., be paid off and redeemed.--Agreed to. NEW' SOUTH WALES. Lord WHARNCLIFFE laid on the table the Report of the Commissioners of New South Wales, and other returns. Their Lordships then Adjourned at Half-past Seven. HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 11. The SPEAKER took the Chair a few minutes be fore Four o'Clock. Returns from the Court of Bankruptcy were brought up. The Padstow Harbour Bill was read a second time. Mr. G. BAN KES presented two petitions against the Canterbury and Ramsgate Railway. SOUTH EASTERN, CANTERBURY, &c., RAILWAY. On the motion that the South Eastern, Canter bury, Ramsgate, and Margate Railway Bill, be read a second time, Mr. G. BANKES strongly objected, on the ground that it unfairly and unnecessarily interfered with private property. He moved that the Bill be post poned for a week. Mr. BRADSHAW considered the Hon. Gentle man was labouring under a mistake and urged the second reading of the Bill. The Bill was then read a second time, on the understanding that the Committee should be post poned for a week The Rochdale Improvement Bill was read a second time. The Liverpool Docks Bill was read a second time. Mr. H. HINDE moved for a copy of the minutes of proceedings and evidence taken before the Com mittee on Railways Bills' classification. Mr. B. BARING objected to the motion, which, after a few words from Mr. Rice, was withdrawn by consent. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD presented a peti tion from upwards of 2,000 inhabitants of Rochdale, to the effect that the taking of human life under the power of the law is the most serious and solemn duty which can be performed; that when executed by arbitration of the sheriffs, as it usually is, it is often done without due decorum or solemnity ; that if this practice is to be continued under the sanction of the religion of the State, it shall be performed in such a manner as to make a solemn and religious impression on the minds of the people. Therefore the petitioners prayed the House to enact that, whenever the taking away of human life is commanded to be done under the laws of the State, it should be performed as a religious ceremony, and by a clergyman of the State Church. The Leeds New Gas Bill, and the Kingston upon-Hull Dock Bill were read a second time. Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition, praying for the repeal of the duty on the importation of foreign wool. Petitions against the Factories Bill were presented by Mr. T. Duncombe (59 petitions, signed by 7,800 persons), and by Mr. Hume, from Yorkshire. Mr. HINDLEY presented 40 petitions from the Peace Societies in several towns in England, Ireland, and Scotland, against any increase in the war estab lishment of the country. Mr. T. DUN COMBE presented a petition from the guardians of the poor in the parish of Islington, praying that their local Act might not be interfered with. RELIGIOUS TESTS. Mr. WALLACE presented a petition from Gree nock, against enforcing religious tests on the holders of situations in colleges. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr. WALLACE gave notice that he should to morrow move for leave to bring in a Bill for extend ing the provisions of the Act of Geo. 111. c. 69 to all roads and highways; also to move for certain returns connected with railways. The Hon. Member also gave notice that he would present a petition to morrow from the inhabitants of Bermondsey, com plaining that the Lambeth Water Company supplied foul and unfiltered water, contrary to their Act of Parliament. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. Dr. BOWRING gave notice that, on moving the Order of the Day for going into Committee on the next Supply night, he would call the attention of the House to the necessity of improving the form, and removing the prominent defects in the present system of keeping the public accounts. LAW OF CONSPIRACY. Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice that on an early day after the recess be would move for leave to bring in a Bill to define the law of conspiracy.— (Cries of" Ilear, hear.") Also, for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal the several statutes and laws relating to landlords and tenants, passed since the union, with the object of abolishing the power of levying under a distress for rent for a less amount than 201., except in cases w here there is a lease of 21 years. INCLOSURE OF COMMONS. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD gave notice that, on the second reading of the Commons Inclosure Bill, he would move that the Bill be read a second time on that day six months. MAYNOOTII COLLEGE. Mr. WYSE postponed un til a ft er !E as t er th e motion of which he had given notice, respecting the Catholic College of Maynooth, and altered the form of the notice in some respects, which were not dis tinctly understood in the gallery. Mr. $. ESCOTT wished to ask the Hon. Member WAYS AND MEANS. The Report of the Committee on Ways and Means was brought up and received. DUELLING. Captain POLHILL wished to put a question to the Hon. Member for Truro, on the subject of the motion of which that Hon. Gentleman had given notice. The Hon. Gentleman had given notice for Thursday of a motion on the subject of duelling. Now, as that question would most probably be dis cussed this evening, he wished to kn ow if th e H on . Gentleman intende to persevere in his motion on Thursday ? Mr. TURNER begged to inform the Hon. Gen tleman that he intended to bring forward his motion on Thursday. SUPPLY. The Report of the Committee of Supply was then brought up, and the votes, up to that for the pay ment of " Pensions to Officers' Widows," were con firmed. DUELLING. On the vote for the "Pensions to the Widows of Officers" being proposed, Captain BERNAL rose to move for a copy of any letter or correspondence which had passed between the Secretary-at-War and the widow of the late Lieutenant-Colonel David Lynar Fawcett, C. 8., re lative to the withholding of her pension. In bring ing forward this motion, he begged to return his thanks to the Secretary-at-War for the cour tesy and kindness which he had received from that Right Hon. and Gallant Gentleman on this occasion, and he would venture to express a hope that the sub ject would be discussed in a spirit of temper and mo deration. It would be necessary to recal to the re membrance of the House the fact that the Hon. Mem ber for Truro had put a question to the First Lord of the Treasury on this subject, and that the Right Hon. Gentleman had, on that occa s i on , t a ken great credit to his Government for exerting their legitimate influence for the discouragement of duelling, by refusing a pen sion to the widow of an officer of great military reputation, and who had distinguished himself in the service of his country, but who had unfortunately fallen in a duel. Those, he believed, were the exact words of the Right Hon. Gentleman — no special circumstances had been alleged, beyond the fact of the officer falling in a duel, to justify the refusal of the pension. Ile must confess that when he heard that voluntary declaration of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the First Lord of the Treasury, he had been astonished, not so much at the manifest in justice of the act, as at the manner in which it had been attempted to be ju s tifi e d. H e h a d been told that precedents might be brou g ht f orwar d to support that act. He had searched diligently for precedents, but had not been able to find a single one. At the time the Noble Lord, the Member for Tiverton, was Se cretary at War, in the year 1817, a pension had been refused to the widow of an officer who had committed suicide ; but he would leave the House to decide whether that could be considered a case in point. It was not his intention now to enter into any general discussion of the question of duelling. He would not do so for this reason. He thought so long as the majority of Members on both sides of that House were so ready to follow in the footsteps of Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox in becoming parties to a hostile meeting, that such dis cussions were of no avail, and he would suggest to the Hon. Gentleman who sat below (Mr. Turner), that he would pursue an advisable course in withdrawing the resolution of which he had given notice; and if he would turn his attention to the state of the law at present on the subject, and bring in a Bill by which the relations in any case of fatal duel might come upon the survivor for damages— as was the law in France ; and, to come nearer home; Hon. Gentlemen were not perhaps aware that such a law existed in Scotland—it would have greater effect in putting an end to the practice of duelling than any other course of proceeding. The Right Hon. the Secretary at War had coolly told the House the other night that there was a clause in the Mutiny Act, by which all officers, or persons who conveyed challenges to others, were liable to be tried by court-martial and cashiered. He would read that clause: it was to the effect, that any officer or promoted a another with not o e h r a s ll o e l n d g i e e r t w o h o a n ogtahveer, or r e n t n , p c h o r ;y d e e y d e d , fighting a duel; or, if commanding a guard, should per mit any member of that guard to go ou t t o fi g h t a d ue l , should be liable, if an officer, to b e cas hi ere d or suffer any other punishment, according to the nature and degree of the offence as in the judgment of a court-martial should be awarded. He (Captain Bernal) did not scruple to say that that clause was certainly a dead letter. He could state, from his own experience, that no officer could ordinarily re-' fuse a challenge ; and he knew of no instance where the conveyor or promoter of a challenge was brought to a court-martial for that offence. In looking o ver th e A rmy List he saw certainly that an officer on the half-pay list bad some years ago been struck off, not for fighting a duel, but for fighting with a superior officer. He alluded to the case of Ensign Batty; and the superior was blamed, not for fighting a duel, .but for fi g hti ng w i t h an inferior officer. But he would give a still stronger proof that an officer was not allowed to receve an insult without taking notice of it. He held i n hi s h an d a letter of a man of high military reputation on the subject. It was to this effect:—" Is a gentleman, who happens to be a Minister, to submit to be insulted by any gentleman who thinks proper to impute criminal motives to him in his conduct as an individual? I can not doubt the decision I ought to make upon the question, and I now call upon you to give me that satisfaction which every gentleman has a right to require, and which a gentleman never refuses." That letter was signed Wellington — (gear)—and that Noble Individual, it - was needless for him to say, was now at the head of thellorse-Gukrds, and that letter was conveyed by the Right Hon. Gentleman who was now Secretary at War.—(Hear.) He would refrain from adducing any other examples of duels that had proved fatal, although he could produce many instances. Gentleman h a d s aid He would, however, refer to thean c u a n se for o tu f n a ate cal d .a u l e ry l. , o r ffi h c e er, R w i g h h o t was H c oncerned 11 that there was no instance on record of an officer who had been cashiered for not fighting a duel. If he would turn back to 1818—he did not mention names for an ob vious reason—he would find an instance o f a Li eutenant - General of the Royal Marines, who was brought to a court-martial for neglecting to demand the honourable ad justment of a quarrel, &c.. Another i ns t ance: an officer . was sentenced, for a offence, to be suspended for six months ; and in his own regiment he was ae. quainted with an officer who refused to fight a duel, and for doing so, he was driven from the regiment. So that, if an officer obeyed the dictates of reason, he must give up his commission; and if he followed those of honour, he was liable to be tried for his life.—(Hear, hear)—and if an officer fell, they car ried their vengeance beyond the grave, and deprived his widow of a pension. He would now say one word with respect to pensions. There was some considerable dif ference of opinion between Members of that House with respect to them. Some Hon. Gentlemen thought an officer's widow was entitled to a pension, but he (Capt. Bernal)believed that in no case could a widow claim a pen sion; it rested entirely with the Secretary at War. In the present instance, if Lieut.-Colonel Fawcet had sold his commission before his death, the sum of 3,500/. would have been at his widow's disposal, but as it is, she lost both the capital and the pension. Now, if he might allude to an unfortunate circumstance that had recently taken place, in connexion with the State prosecutions of Ireland, he must be permitted to say that he dirt not do so for the purpose of indulging in any unworthy taunt. Whatever difference of opinion there might be in reference to the trial itself; he thought that the manly and spirited way in which a certain Right Hon. Gentleman had ex plained away his conduct, was sufficient to obliterate all unkindly feeling, and for his own part he sincerely hoped that upon this ground the door of legal promotion would not be closed upon him.—(Loud cheers.) At the same time he was at a loss to understand the principle n hich overlooked a practice in one party, and upon the other, a weaker and more defenceless one, visited such heavy punishment. Surely it was anguish enough for this wretched lady, that her husband had fallen by the hand of her brother-in-law —surely that was sufficient punishment ; and now that the seconds in the duel—the more culpable parties by far—( Loud cheers) — now that they were acquitted and still held their com missions, surely it savoured somewhat of persecution thus to visit upon the wretched woman the consequences of her husband's fault. At the best, it was paltry to visit his sins upon her helplessness. He did not know that unhappy lady, and could have no motive for his conduct, but that which all in the House would partake in common with him ; and he could not but entertain a strong hope that the Honourable and Gallant Officer opposite (Sir Henry llardinge), whose character for courage was only equalled by his reputation for hu manity, would yet revise his opinion, and agree to the motion he now submitted to the House.—(Loud and general cheers from all parts of the House.) Sir C. NAPIER seconded the motion. Sir. H. HARDINGE said he should certainly endea vour to follow the Gallant Officer with the same excellent temper and good feeling which he had shown in introducing his motion.—(Hear, hear.) lle felt called upon to justify to the House the decision which he, in the exercise of his judgment, had formed, and which had been subsequently confirmed by his Right Honourable Friend. In that decision he was influ enced by special circumstances, and not governed by any direct or general rule. On the contrary, he had been influenced by considerations, that there were circum stances so unjustifiable in this duel that required the Government to show as much discouragement and as marked a displeasure as possible. He would inform the House what had taken place. In September he received a communication from the agent, asking for a pension for Mrs. Fawcett. He sent to the agent a communication, informing him that in his (Sir Henry Hardinge's) opinion it was a case in which a pension could not be recommended by him, but under all the circumstances of the case, he recommended the agent not to press his application at that time. In the course of a month he received a letter withdrawing the first application—he did this in order that the case of Lieut. Munro, who was then understood to be about to take his trial, might not be prejudiced from any record of his that he considered the duel unjust. He did not, therefore, make any record at the time of the reasons which influenced him m withholding the pension, but he had since stated that it was riot a case in which, in his opinion, a pension ought to be granted. With regard to what passed between him and his Right Honourable Friend, who wrote to him upon the subject of Mr. Munro, from the country, he begged to state that, in the answer which he wrote to his Right Honourable Friend, he said he understood that expectations were held out by the friends of Mr. Munro that in a month or two that gentleman would return and take his trial. This was subsequent to his decision upon the case of Mrs. Fawcett. Having the expectation that Mr. Munro would take his trial, he though it would equally prejudice his case if he had been deprived of his commission previous to his His Right Honourable Friend concurred with him in that opinion, and he also concurred with him in the opinion that it was not a case, considering the near relationship of the parties, in which a pension could be granted to Mrs. Fawcett. But, as he said before, the pension was refused on special grounds, and not on any general principle. He would now state what the practice of the War-office was on this subject. The Right Hon. and Gallant Gentleman then referred to a duel which took place in Ceylon in the year 1829. One of the parties was shot, and an application was made for a pension for the widow. He made a minute upon the case to the effect, that it was for public service performed by the husband that a widow was entitled to a pension, and not if he lost his life in any private or personal quarrel. He also stated that due allowance would be made for the force of custom and the usages of society ; and that upon the whole else being known it would be for the discretion of the War-office to say whe ther the circumstances in that case were such as would justify a pension. He received a re port of the case from the General commanding at Ceylon, but his information upon the subject was as scanty as his own. Shortly afterwards Mr. Wynn succeeded him as Secretary-at-War, and he found that Mr. Wynn made a minute on the subject. The minute of Mr. Wynn was to this effect, that as there were no circumstances of palliation in the case, the pen sion must be refused. He now came to a more unfor tunate case than that of Col. Fawcett--he meant the case of the late Capt. Boyle. It appeared in that case that the pistols had been actually forced into Capt. Boyle's hand, and in that case the then Government, being of opinion that the re w e re c i rcumstances o f pallia tion, determined that tile widow of Captain Boyle was entitled to her p e n s i on .—(ll ear, h ear .) Th e at tention of her Majesty's Government had, during the recess, in consequence of thin unfortunate affair of Col. Fawcett's, been directed; in attempting to devise means for the discouragement of duelling. The circumstances of that case had been brought• prominently under their attention. The insult had been but trifling. Nothing had passed between the. parties beyond a request that .one of them would leave 'the room. Colonel Fawcett was well known as a gallant officer in the service. His cha • racter was firmly established. There n as no necessity for him to have hurried forth in breathless haste to shoot his brother-in-law in the morning. There was nothing whatever to justify a duel between such near relatives, and under these circumstances he felt that he was justi fied in refusing to recommend his widow for a pension. The manner in which pensions to the widows of officers were granted was regulated by circumstances. If an officer were killed in action, Isis widow had a double pen sion. If the officer was killed in a legal manner the pension was granted, but he did not think that he should have been justified in recommending the widow of Col. Fawcett for a pension, and her Majesty's Government agreed with him in opinion On that subject. He knew that in certain cases pensions had been allowed to the widows of officers killed in duels. Thirty years ago, when our army was serving with foreign troops, duels used to take place constantly—sometimes as many as four or five a day, in consequence of insults offered by foreign officers to the British uniform. In those cases the officers were obliged to fight to maintain the honour of their country, and where in such duels British officers had unfortunately fallen, it would have been most un just to have refused pensions to their widows. He had taken his line of conduct in the matter, and to that line he would adhere. As to the case of Lord Londonderry, to which the Gallant Offieer-had alluded, he was blamed not for fighting with an inferior officer so much as with an officer on half-pay; the distinction between whom and an officer on full pay was known to the Gallant Officer, who was ,acquainted with the customs of the service. With respect to the case of the Duke of Wellington, to which the Gallant Officer had also referred, that distinguished individual had had a differ ence with a Noble Lord who was not in the army, and it certainly never had been a code of the army that of ficers should not resent an insult offered by a party un connected with the army. -The Gallant Member had said that no officer had ever been dismissed the army for fighting a duel. General Burton, who had fought a duel on half-pay, had been dismissed on that account. With respect to the case of the Colonel of Marines, that officer had allowed several aspersions to be cast on his conduct, which were afterwards renewed by another Lieutenant-Colonel, and gave rise to such recrimina tions on both sides, that it' was found necessary to re move the parties, and, in consequence, one of them was dismissed the service, and the other was put on half-pay. He was prepared to state to the House the arrangement which had received the sanction of her Majesty, and which would be comprised in a clause to be inserted amongst the Articles of War. That arrangement, he trusted, would have the desired effect of putting a stop to the mischie vous practice of duelling: the clause would be a declara tory one. (The Right Hon. Gentleman here read the clause, which declared the approbation of the Govern ment of the conduct of all officers who, having had the misfortune of giving offence, or injuring, or insulting others, should explain, apologise, or offer redress for the same ; or, having the misfortune to receive an of fence, injury, or insult, should cordially accept an ex planation, apology, or offer of redress, frankly given; or, if such were refused to be made, should submit his sub ject of complaint to the commanding officer of the regi ment, corps, or garrison; and they accordingly acquitted of all disgrace all officers and soldiers who, being wil ling to take such redress, had refused a challenge.) This clause, he had no doubt, would have a very conside rable effect in discouraging duelling to a great extent. They might not be able to eradicate duelling al together ; but he trusted they would succeed in modifying the practice very much.—(Hear, hear,) When the officers of the ar m y f oun d w h at h er Ma jesty's sentiments were--sentiments so openly expressed - 7 -they would act in accordance with those opinions, and disfavour the practice of duelling as much as lay in their power. There had not been a single duel in any regiment for eight years, and he believed there was as little duelling in the army as elsewhere.—(Hear, hear.) Notwithstanding ,what the Gallant Officer had said, there were some cases which defied legislation, for it was impossible for any Government or any Secretary at-War to devise articles of war which would meet every case.'of duelling. The Articles of War at present existing referred only to officers in full pay, who were in full military duty, and did not apply to half-pay officers who were not in active service. If officers had a quarrel with private individuals, he would not consent that they should not have the same opportunities of obtaiiiiDg satisfaction for an insult as other members of society. To officers on half-pay he had already said the Articles of War did not apply, and, unless in a case so flagrant as to demand the exercise of the Royal prerogative,- they would be in the same position as civilians. There was not one duel now for fifty heretofore. The papers the Gallant Officer called for would be produced, but he could not hold out any hope that the pension would be granted to Mrs. Fawcett, as there were many reasons for not acceding to it which might not exist in other cases. Mr. DUNCOMBE said he did not think her Ma jesty's sentiments on the subject of duelling would have the effect anticipated by the Gallant Officer. The friends of Lieutenant Munro had done him (Mr.,Duncombe) the honour of addressing a letter on this subject. He believed if all the circumstances of the case were known Mr. Munro would be entitled to deep commisseration, instead of the censure of the public.—(Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that the affair might have been settled, and ought to have been. If the Right Hon. Gentleman had a correct statement of the affair he must have known that the most gross language had been used to Mr. Munro. The quarrel took place on Thurs day evening, and the parties did not fight till Saturday, the Ist of July. The whole, therefore, of the following day (Friday) was passed by the seconds and Lieutenant Munro in taking the opinions of persons of high station, not in the military life, but in society generally, as to what ought to be done. Now, Lieutenant Munro had written the letter to him, from which it appeared that the opinion of several friends was taken, who all of them agreed that either an apology must be given to Lieut. Munro, or he must demand satisfaction; that Lieut. Munro most deeply deplored the being obliged to go out; that he did all in his power to prevent it, but that he was told by his second that Lieutenant-Colonel Fawcett was so obstinate that there was no hope of his coming to a friendly understanding. Now that letter placed the whole affair in a very different light to what it had hitherto been. Now, what was the state of the case ? Why Lieut.-Col. Fawcett's widow was deprived of the pension that would have come to her if her husband had fallen in any other cause. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that there were spe cial circumstances in the case that precluded him from recommending the Crown to grant the pension. He (Mr. Duncombe) could easily understand that there might be such special circumstances not justifying the Government to grant the pension. Now, what was the case of Mr. Munro ? The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that he should have no objection to grant the production of the documents asked for. He (Mr. Dun combe) would like to add to them copies of all the cor respondence that had taken place between Lieutenant Munro and the Horse Guards as to his being superseded. He purchased his commission: that was lost, and his pay from the Ist of July last, though he belonged to the army up to the end of February in the present year, was stopped._ _ Sir HENRY HARDINGE—Of course ; he was ab sent without leave. Mr. DUNCOMBE—True ; but then there was on the part of the Horse Guards a tacit acquiescence in this absence. But what was the situation of Lieut. Munro now ? From the touching letter he had received he found that he was in the most unhappy state that man could be in, and he (Mr. Duncombe) maintained that blame did not attach to him, for in point of fact the duel was forced upon him. He was a victim to the horrid and barbarous system which was allowed to prevail in this country. The parties who were really to blame was that general officer—(Loud cheers)—and those other officers— (Cheers)—who told Lieutenant Munro that, at the hazard of his life, he must stand by not only his own honour, but the honour of his corps.—(Continued cheers.) If he had not fought, it was very well known that he would have been dismissed and scouted from his corps.—(Cheers.) Were Lieutenant Munro now to throw himself on the laws of the country, he would most probably be transported.—(Hear, hear.) So, on the one side, having fought, he was liable to transportation ; and on the other, if he had not fought, he would have been visited with an ignominious dismissal from his corps.—(Loud cheers.) -It did behove the House to go a step further than merely denouncing this barbarous practice—it behoved it to declare that any member in dulging in it should be held as degraded. They might go through the farce—for farce it would be—of agreeing to those regulations which her Majesty was about to issue ; but he felt Very sure, that even while condemn ing duelling, there was hardly a Member at that mo ment in the House who would not resort to it if he supposed an insult had been cast upon him.—(Laughter and Hear, hear.) But even as to those regulations, they must go a step further, by punishing half-pay as well as full-pay officers taking part in this practice. The sub ject was one of the most delicate that could be touched on in that House ; but whoever assisted to do away with so horrible a practice would be entitled to the re spect and the gratitude of the country.—(Hear.) Sir CHARLES NAPIER said the Right Hon. and Gallant Officer (Sir H. Hardinge) said there were special reasons in the circumstances of this duel which precluded the Government from giving a pension to Mrs. Fawcett; but he had not made the House acquainted with them. He wished him to state whether that lady herself had or had not anything to do with the fighting this duel. He for one did not believe that she had. lie fully agreed in the heinousness of the practice of duelling; but this duel he held to be the most wicked he knew of. There was nothing on earth to excuse it. No brothers, or brothers-in-law, ought ever to fight—he would go further, and say, cousins ought not to fight.— (A laugh.) They might laugh, but that was his opinion. He thought that the general officer was not justified in the advice which he had given ; and he was of opinion that the seconds ought not to have suffered them to go out. If the seconds had refused to act, he would answer for it that, when the circumstances had been fully explained, they would have found no other se conds.—(Hear.) The seconds had been tried and acquitted, and had not been punished in any way; and the Secretary-at-War, in refusing the pension to the widow of Col. Fawcett, had punished the least culpable of the parties to the duel.—(Cheers.) The Secretary-at- Warhad brought forward certain new regulations, which he did not think would be effectual. There was no officer in the army or navy who was not aware that there were certain persons who were practised duellists, men who were constantly practising with pistols, and who could shoot out the eye of a sparrow. Now, a pistol was not a necessary weapon of defence; it was :used only occa sionally in the navy, and in the army it was used only by a portion of the cavalry, and it was of no great use to either of the services. It would be of great advan tage if some regulation were adopted to prevent those professed pistol-shooters from belonging either to the army or the navy. They should go further, and pre vent duelling in civil life; but if he looked round the House, he saw many persons high in office, who had fought duels or sent challenges.—(Cheers and laughter.) The first Minister of the Crown had done so.—(Laugh ter.) But he should like to see a regulation introduced by which any person who had fought a duel or sent a challenge should be incapacitated from serving the Crown either as minister or law-officer.—(Cheers and laughter.) He knew that if such a regulation were passed it would thin the benches opposite—(Laugh ter)—and perhaps there were many on his side of' the House who would be unable to take their seats there.—(A laugh.) He knew that if that rule were adopted, the country would be deprived of the services of the Duke of Wellington—(A:laugh)—as Com mander-in-Chief----(Renewed laughter)—and of many other eminent men. The best way to put down duelling would be to legalise it—to pass a law that all duels should be fought across a table—that one pistol only should be loaded, and that the survivor of the duel should be hanged. If they shot one and hanged the other, an effectual stop would be put to duelling.—(Laughter.) Colonel WOOD denied that duelling was more preva lent in the army than in civil life. He had known cases in which officers had been called together and prevented duels in cases which, had they occurred in civil life, could not have been prevented. Lord PALMERSTON said, that as his name had been introduced in reference to the subject of duelling, he felt it incumbent on him to say a few words on the subject. The case alluded to he had forgotten, but from what had been stated of it, the circumstances entirely differed from that of the present case. In the case alluded to, an officer lost his life by his own hand. In the :present case he had fallen by the hand of another. He considered therefore, that tho same rule should not apply to both. The pension was granted not so much for the considera tion attached to the case of the widow, as to the services the deceased officer had rendered. The security that an officer had of a pension for his widow prevented the ne cessity of sacrificing a portion of his pay during his life, and it was pro tanto recompense. He should have been, in this case, disposed to come to a different conclusion from the Government. The only circumstances he had learnt were from the newspapers; and from the reports there it would appear that Colonel Fawcett was the least to blame. The challenge was not from .him. He thought the seconds were blameable in the next degree, as, if they had exerted ordinary means, they might have pre vented the duel which ensued. With respect to the new Articles of War, he thought if the old ones had been en forced they would have been sufficiently stringent. He agreed in the opinion that the army could not be ex pected to act differently from the rest of the community; and, as long as the practice found favour in society, it could hardly be extinguished in the army. If it were the determination of the Government to withhold pensions from the widows of all officers who fell in duels, they had better record their determination publicly ; but he would still entertain a hope that Government would re consider the present case, and if there were not some very aggravating features in it, which the public were not yet apprised of, that they would grant Mrs. Fawcett the pension. Sir ROBERT PEEL said he gave his cordial appro bation to the course pursued by the Secretary. at-War. Last session he (Sir H. Peel) had acquainted the House that it was the intention of the Government to discou rage as far as they could the practice of duelling, al though they dispaired of introducing any effectual en actment on the subject. The Government disapproved of making any enactments, and approved of the course taken by his Right HOD. Friend. There was a general rule of the War-office, that it was not the circumstances or the merits of the widow that should entitle her to the pension, but the merits of the deceased officer. Now, surely it was no additional claim in favour of Mrs. Fawcett that her husband should have fallen in a duel. No doubt there might be circumstances of hardship at tached to her case, and so there were in every case in which a rule was rigidly acted upon. If they merely looked at the condition of the widow, the case of a widow whose husband had fallen by his own hand, might be quite as distressing as the case of an officer who had fallen in a duel. Now, with regard to this particular case, he did not think it such as to merit any exception; at the same time he would cautiously guard himself against using any expression in the least disrespectful to the memory of Lieutenant- Colonel Fawcett, or the character of Lieutenant Munro. It should be recollected that Lieut.-Col. Fawcett was all officer high in rank—he admitted a distinguished officer —but it should not be forgotten that, with all his experi- ' ence, he selected as seconds two very young men. He (Sir R. Peel) must again express his sorrow at being obliged to enter into these matters, but he really did think, from all the circumstances that had come to his knowledge, that it:would not have been inconsistent with the honour of Lieut.-Colonel Fawcett to have offered an apology to Lieutenant Munro, and he (Sir R. Pee)) thought it was his duty to have tendered this apology. If his Right Honourable Friend gave the pension in this case, it would act as an encouragement to duelling in the army. Now, with respect to the disniissal of Lieutenant Munro, he hardly "thought that course could have been objected to. Lieutenant Munro was not dismissed in the first instance. He w as told he would be tried for wilful murder, but he chose to absent himself for two sessions, and then, and not till then, did the Commander-in-Chief dismiss him, having no other course left open to him. (The Right Hon. Gentleman then read the new articles of war, which earnestly recommended the discouragement of the prac tice of duelling in the army ; and if one officer had the misfortune to offend another, he should offer a fair and frank apology ; and if, on the contrary, an officer had been offended, be should receive an apology, in the same frank and generous spirit. They further declared that no officer should be considered as having in the least forfeited his pension for having refused to accept a chal lenge ; and in cases where an amicable arrangement could not be effected, it was recommended that the matter should be laid before the commander of the regiment.) New, said the Right Hon. Baronet, if these declarations, coming from so high a quarter, do not discourage the practice, he feared that any step taken by that House could not have so desirable a result.- Captain BERNAL was sorry that this unfortunate affair had been so re-opened, particularly by the Right Hon. Baronet, who had just sat down, and agreed in the view taken by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at-War, that the pension could not be demanded as a right. They were driven to the necessity of either fighting a duel or losing caste in society ; yet the Government now refused to grant a pension to the widow of Colonel Fawcett. He knew nothing about that lady's present circumstances, but he was aware that Colonel Fawcett had been signalised for his bravery in China during the late war in that country. He knew nothing either of Lieutenant Munro beyond the fact that he was univer sally spoken of as a gentleman. After considering the regulations and the Articles of War, he (Captain Ber nal) felt sure that no officer in that House would rise and say but that a military man was placed in pecu liarly trying circumstances in some of those matters. Lord HO WICK said, that after what he had stated on a former occasion, no person for a moment could doubt the sincerity with which he would join the Govern ment in any course which would have for its object the putting down of duelling. He should, in touching upon the present case, not at all allude to what was called the various causes of aggravation to which men were sub ject. If the object the Government contemplated by the course which they now adopted towards Colonel Favv cett's widow were likely to put a stop to the practice of duelling, no man would sooner coincide with them than he would ; and he should be at once in favour of withdrawing the pension ; but if there existed a connivance on the part of those in authority at this custom, he thought the withdrawal of the pension was nothing more than a ease of individual hardship, which was likely to produce no social effect. If he were asked whether, during the course of this debate the effect likely to be produced upon the public mind was not quite the reverse of a tendency to put down duelling, or -to discountenance it , he should answer distinctly, that it would have a wholly different effect upon the public mind. The tone of the debate was merely that the two persons were both to blame, and no strong criminality was attached to either. According to the doctrine now laid down, officers in the army were not allowed the same privileges of protecting them selves from insult as civilians were. This he (Lord Howick) thought was most essential where a number of officers were serving in the same regiment, because a contrary course would be subversive of all military dis cipline ; but, in the case of Colonel Fawcett he did think that principle was inapplicable. The practice of duelling would never cease in the army so long as it was allowed to prevail amongst civilians ; and he called upon the Government to put it down amongst that class, first, before they punished the widow of an officer, who fell in a duel, by withholding her pension. Before sitting down he should say that he agreed with the Right Hon. lita• ronet in his assertion, that, speaking comparatively, there were fewer duels amongst military men than civi lians; and he also concurred in the opinion that that reflected much credit upon them. The only possible ex cuse to render for the course adopted in this case was, that it might tend to prevent duelling, but it had not the slightest likelihood of producing that effect ; he thought it was a most severe course to adopt towards the widow of Colonel Fawcett. Mr. W. COWPER said he quite agreed with what had fallen from the Noble Lord, the Member for Sun derland. He believed that duelling was a crime con demned by the laws of God and man. He believed that there were no circumstances which were sufficient to justify a duel. The Hon. Member for Weymouth said he doubted whether there was any one who, on religious grounds, would refuse to fight a duel. Now he (Mr. Cowper) felt it his duty to state that he, for one , would. —(Cheers.) There were many perso ns , w h o stood high in the army and navy, and whose courage was un doubted, who had pledged themselves to do all in their power for the suppression of duelling. He thought the Government had taken a step in the right direction when they recommended that disputes between officers should be referred to the commanding officer of the regiment ; but this, however, did not go far enough. He thought that all commanding officers ought to have instructions given to them of summoning courts•martial to inquire into the merits of disputes between officers. There were precedents for this. During the reign of George the Third two cases occurred, in which the matter was settled by the intervention of the Horse Guards. One was a dispute between Lieut.- General Murray and Sir William Draper. In both cases, the parties concerned pledged their honour that they would abide the decision of the court, and in this way their differences were settled. Sir R. INGLIS could not sufficiently express his re spect for the moral courage which had b een s h own b y the Hon. Gentleman w h o had just sat down.—(Hear.) He thought that it required more courage to make a declaration like that just uttered by the Hon. Gentle man, than it did to fight a duel. He (Sir R. Inglis) thought the Government was now called upon to adopt such measures as would show that they had a disposi tion to discourage to the utmost of their power the practice of duelling. It might not be in the knowledge of many Members of that House, and the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman who had just sat down— An HON. MEMBER—Not Gallant. Sir R. INGLIS—Yes, Gallant ; and it was this that made the declaration which the House had just heard from the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman the more praise worthy. It might not be in the knowledge of many Hon. Gentlemen, that an association had been formed for the discontinuance of duelling. They sought for no legislation on the subject ; they only sought the means of discouraging the practice of duelling. They had ad dressed her Majesty on th e su bj ec t. The memorial was sent to the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary for the Home Department, for presentation, and though he (Sir R. Inglis) did not complain of a want of cour tesy towards him personally, on the part of the Right Hon. Baronet, yet he did complain of the manner in which the memorial had been received. The answer to the Noble Lord, who was chairman of the Association, was merely, " I have the honour to acknow ledge the receipt of your memorial for presentation to her Majesty, and to inform your Lordship that it has been laid before her Majesty."—(" Hear, hear," from Sir James Graham.) The Right Hon. Baronet recognised the accuracy of his (Sir R. Inglis's) detail, and he grieved to think that he also recognised the propriety of the answer. He thought the Right Hon. Baronet, in his answer, might have thrown some discouragement upon the practice of duelling, by simply stating that her Ma jesty had taken the subject into consideration ; and he might at least have appreciated the purity of the mo tives of those from whom the memorial had emanated. Mr. W. 0. STANLEY thought the time was now come when the law with respect to duelling ought to be put into full force. He thought the public out of doors would not be satisfied with the explanation of the Go vernment that night. lie trusted that measures would be adopted, by which - every officer guilty of fighting a duel should be tried by a court-martial, aad punished accordingly. Mr. TURNER thought the feeling of the public at large had been so roused upon this subject, that sooner or later her Majesty's Government would be compelled to bring a Bill into Parliament for the entire suppres sion of duelling. me L n o t rd for ß. h G av l i t n O g BVtatNen°tßhefe s l u t ble r : t t eful up to the te the Gmoaviceinrner they had done, although he regretted that they had not gone much further. The discussion that night had turned :on the subject of duelling in the army only, but the practice of duelling amongst the other portions of her Majesty's subjects it had left untouched. The matter, therefore, 'could not rest where it at present stood.—(Hear, hear.) He was sure, after what had passed, more would be done. He trusted that those who felt with himself would give due time for these matters to be settled, because he felt if they legislated in too great a hurry they would run the risk of aggra vating the evil.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BROTHERTON said that, although several Hon. Members had declared that duelling was contrary to the laws of God and man, yet it was chiefly among the higher "classes that it took place. He for one would never give or accept a challenge. Let the principle of duelling be discouraged, by its being considered dis graceful to send a challenge. He would say, let 'the House express some opinion of its abhorrence at the system, and public opinion would put down the system. The resolution was then withdrawn, and the Report on the Committee of Supply _was broug ht up. ROMAN CATHOLIC CHARITIES. Mr. O'CONNELL obtained leave to bring in a Bill to alter and amend the law relating to Roman Catholic charities, and the tenure of lands for the purposes of Roman Catholic worship, in Ireland, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on the 19th of April. TOBACCO TRADE. Mr. HUME moved for a Select Committee, to exit. mine into the present state of the tobacco trade, and to inquire what effects have been produced by the changes in the laws relating to it ; and whether any and what Legislative measures, compatible with the general in terest of the country, might be advisable, in order to pro mote the trade, or to check smuggling in tobacco ; and to report their observations thereupon to the House. The motion was agreed to, after a few observations from the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, and )dr. F. BARING. The Committee of the Poor-law Amendment Bill was postponed till Friday. On the motion of Lord ASIILEY, the following Members were appointed as the Select Committee on Netlical Belief to the poor;—Lord Ashley, Mr.