The Sun. — London, England, 1844-01-22 00:00:00

COURT CIRCULAR. WINDSOR, SUNDAY.—Yesterday morning her Majesty and his Royal Highness Prince Albert took their customary walk in the grounds about the Castle. The Royal Family were taken for their yoal airings; the Prince of Wales and the PrinceSs Alice in afe:riag,e, and the Princess Royal in the neighbourhood of tlaipastle on a pony. His Royal Highness Prince Albert hunted with his harriers at Salt Hill, attended by Sir Edward Bowater, Captain Mey nell, Mr. G. E. Anson, and the Hon. C. A. Murray. The Duke and Duchess of Buckingham and Sir Robert and Lady Peel took their departure from the Castle yesterday. Lady Caroline Somers Cocks and the Hon. Miss Frances Devereux have succeeded the Hon. Misses Liddell and Hamil ton as the Maids of Honour in Waiting on her Majesty. This morning her Majesty and Prince Albert, the Ladies and Gentlemen of the Royal Suite, and the Household, attended Divine service in the private chapel. The Hon. and Rev. C. Leslie Courtenay officiated. '1 he Rev. Gentleman took his text from the 13th chapter of the 2d of Corinthians and the 14th verse. In the forenoon the Queen and Prince Albert, accompanied by the Duke of Cambridge, took their early walk in the pre cincts of the Castle. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent and her Lady in Waiting, and Sir George Caliper, attended Divine service to day in the parish church. The Rev. Mr. Carter (Rector of Clewer) officiated, preaching a most excellent sermon from the 20th and 21st verses of the 17th chapter of St. Luke. The Royal Family were taken out to-day. Their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and the Princess Mary, have arrived at the Castle, on a visit to her Majesty. Her Majesty and Prince Albert, it is expected, will remove to town in the early part of the week after next, for the open ing of the session of Parliament. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridv arrived in town on Saturday morning from his residence at Kew. His Royal Highness left Cambridge House, on a visit to the Queen, at Windsor Castle. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge left her residence, at Kew, yesterday, for Windsor Castle, on a visit to her Majesty. A Cabinet Council was held at two o'clock on Saturday afternoon, at the Foreign-office. The Ministers present were Sir Robert Peel, the Duke of Wellington, Lord Wharncliffe, the Duke of Bucclepch, Earl of Aberdeen, Lord Stanley, Sir James Graham, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Earl of Haddington, Earl of Ripon, Mr. Gladstone, Sir H. Hardinge, and Sir E. Knatchbull. The Council broke up soon after five o'clock. Sir Robert and Lady Peel arrived at their residence in White hall-gardens on Saturday morning, from a visit to her Majesty, at. Windsor Castle. Mr. J. S. Brownrigg, Governor of the Australian Agricul tural Company, had an interview with Lord Stanley on Satur day at the Colonial-office. The Governer of the Bank of England and the Deputy-Go vernor had an interview with Sir Robert I'eel and the Chan cellor of the Exchequer on Saturday. Dispatches . were received yesterday at the Colonial-office from the Governor of New South Wales. Sir James Graham visited Sir It. Peel on Saturday. Lord Melgund arrived at Farrance's Hotel, Belgrave-street, on Friday. Mr. and Mrs. Vivian also arrived on Friday at Farrance's Hotel. IRELAND, THE STATE TRIALS. FIFTH DAY. (FROM OUR OWN REPORTERS.) DUBLIN, FRIDAY, JAN. 19. COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH. TIEF: QUEEN V. DANIEL. O'CONNELL AND OTHERS. The Gmrt sat this morning at ten o'clock. Mr. O'Csnnell, attired in the bar costume of a Queen's Counsel, entered Court shortly before ten, and took his seat in the inner bar. The other two traversers were also punctually in attendance. The jury having been called over, and answered to their names. Mr. Ross, whose evidence occupied a considerable portion of yesterday, was again called and examined on the part of the Crown by Sergeant Warren—He deposed that he was present at a meeting of the Repeal Association, which took place on the 28th of August ; that meeting was at tende 4 by three of the traversers—Mr. O'Connell, Mr. John O'Connell, and . Mr. Ray ; witness has a note of Mr. O'Connell's speech on that occasion, in which he adverted to a plan which he had introduced at some previous meeting, for the reconstruction of the Irish Parliament.—( Read the ex • tract in question from Mr. O'Connell's speech.) Has not in his notes a copy of a letter read that day from Mallow, but thinks he has a detailed manuscript copy of it. This manu script was written partly at the Association, and partly from my notes. Look and sec if you have a letter dated from Mallow, and purporting to be written by Richard Barnet Barrey, which was read at that meeting. Witness (reading from his short-hand notes)—Mr. O'Connell observed, on reading a letter containing subscrip tions that alluded to the Queen's speech, " that the speech from the Throne was merely a 'Ministerial production, and deserved to be characterised, as it was by the Morning Chronicle, as the essence of stupidity." Ile then adverted to the plan he proposed at the last meeting for the constitu tion of the Irish Parliament, and he said he would take up as the basis of it the census returns of 1831, which could not be supposed to have been framed for any purpose connected with the repeal of the union. He was disposed to adhere to that census, except where it was mentioned that some error existed in the details. He Lad received a letter from Mallow— Air. Sergeant WARREN—That's what I want. that letter ?—I have not a copy of it ; it is not here. Sergeant WARREN—WeII, we cannot help it. What did Mr. O'Connell say in reference to that letter?—He said that he thought that a fair case was made out for giving Mallow two Members, and he proposed that the letter should be referred to a committee, to inquire whether any change should be made in thu plan with reference to that town, which was agreed to after some further observations. Where is Mr. HESS—Have you any notes of what you call further observations have read them. Witness continued to read from his notes the speech of Mr. O'Connell, the ma terial parts of which are as follow :—" There are many candidates for the Preservative Association. Gentlemen of the first fortune and of the highest rank are daily proposing to me that they should be named as candidates for it ; there will be no difficulty whatever in getting 100 gentlemen. I am speaking entirely by anticipation. 'We must keep within the letter and spirit of the law. I am not at present prepared, nor do I think it necessary, to open the scheme of the Preservative Association ; but I am working out my plan for the constitution of the Irish House of Com mons, when it shall be established by Act of Parliament, or by the exercise of the prerogative of the Crown. lam working slowly but surely. lam working for the Irish nation, and want to satisfy them with my progress. I will give way if any lyidy will show me that I have taken a false step— the way to avoid it is to proceed gradually, and therefore I will confine myself to the appointment of Repeal Wardens." Were you present at the Association on the 29th of August, the following day ?—Yes. Now, will you look at your notes, and say how many of the traversers were present ?—I have none but Mr. O'Connell on my notes. Did Mr. O'Connell, upon that occasion, say anything on that part of the Queen's speech relative to her determination to maintain the union between England and Ireland ? He said, " It is now my duty Mr. IiENN—Is that the beginning of his speech ? Wit ness—lt is. Mr. HENN—Did you take full notes of what occurred at that meeting, and the one before it ?—I took a full note' of various matters that occurred. Mr. HENN—Where is that note ? I have not a full note of all that occurred. If you will allow me I will explain. Mr. HENN—I would rather you would answer me. Did you take full notes of such portions as you thought material ? —Yes. Have you those notes here ?—Yes. Those are the short-hand notes ?—Yes. Mr. HENN (addressing the Court)— I respectfully submit that he is not at liberty to use those notes. Sergeant Wwititax"—Mr. Henn, my Lord, is under a mis conception. Mr. HENN—Pardon me, I am not. Mr. Justice CE.A3trroN—What is the exact effect of what the witness has said? Mr. HENN—He said he did not take full mites of all that passed at that meeting, but only such portions as appeared to him to be material. I submit that he is not to be a judge of materiality, and that he must have the whole proceedings on his notes in order to give evidence on any part. Sergeant WA IMEN—I will leave it to the Court. CHIEF JITSTICE-If the witness swears that he gives the substance of what was :o spoken, according to the best of his skill and judgment, the Court will admit that evidence—other wise no note could be admissible that the witness was not able to swear was literatim et verbatim. Mr. HENN—We don't require liberatinz et verbatim ; but we require the substance of all that passed, and without the whole he is not entitled to give evidence of any part. Sergeant WARREN—That is certainly the most novel posi tion I ever heard asserted. Mr. Justice BuazoN—Suppose that no note had been taken at all, but that a witness came to give evidence of certain things he heard said, would not that be adrnissable although he might not recollect every word? Mr. Justice CRANtrroN—Aye, or every sentence ? Mr. Justice BURTON—If the witness was present at a time when particular expressions were made use of by particular persons. surely that would still be evidence? Mr. HENN—That would be a very different thing, for in that case we might examine his memory; but, if a person goes deputed, as the witness announced he was, by the Govern ment, and takes notes, he ought to be able to produce them— not garbled extracts. We are entitled to the whole of what passed at that meeting, and not to part. Sergeant WaititEN—The witness has said that he took a full note. Mr. I-lEss—lle has said that he took notes of such portions as he thought material. Sergeant WARREN (to witness) —Have you taken a , note, to the best of your skill and judgment, of Mr. O'Connell sspeech on that occasi on ?— I h ave . I believe I have the entire. I can always tell when I have taken a thing consecutively, and when I have taken only the heads of the subject ; the Govern ment accepted my services on one condition. Mr. lIENN—Now, don't make a speech. I object, my Lord, to this witness going on. He swears be did not take all of the speech. Sergeant WARREN—If Ido not mistake, he swore he had taken a full note. Mr. HENN—Pardon me-- Mr. O'CONNELL—Let Sergeant Warren ask the question again. Sergeant WARREN (to witness)—Have you taken the entire of that speech ?—I know I have, because it's all consecutive. Mr. HENN—AII consecutive ! Witness—l can always tell when I have taken only a branch of a speech. Witness then took up a bundle of notes. Mr. HENN—Now, tell me are those full notes, or loose ab stracts, in them ?—I cannot depose to a fact of which I know nothing.—( Roars of Laughter. ) The witness, in reply to Sergeant WARREN, said I have not as yet seen my notes at all, so that there may be a blank in them, or there may not be a blank in them. Sergeant WARREN—Look at your note-book, and say if you have taken an entire note of Mr. O'Connell's speech on that occasion or not ? ( The witness looked at his note•book for some time and said) don't think I have a full note of all that occurred that day ; but I have taken such a note as enables me to give a description of it. Sergeant WARREN—I submit, my Lord, we are entitled to have this evidence, and it will then be for the jury to say how they *ill receive it. Judge Prams—Did you observe the last answer the witness has given?—He says he did not take a full note of the speech,but such a mote as would enable him to give a description. Mr. ii r.mx— And I submit that is not evidence, because he eannot say anything except what is in his notes, and he admits ; he did not take a MU note of the speech. THE SUN, LONDON, MONDAY EVENING, JANUAR 22, IM4. Londonderry attached to it. Ile denied that the Speech from the Throne was the personal speech of the Sovereign—it was not a personal speech at all ; it was no more the Queen's speech than it was his (Mr. O'Connell's), and he was not very likely to pronounce a speech of that kind. The suggestion contained in that Speech was grossly disloyal ; it was disloyal to represent the Queen to the people of Ireland as hostile to their liberty. Ile then called attention to the letter in the Morning Chronicle, signed " One Who Whistled at the Plough," from which he read extracts. He pointed out the injury done to the Reform cause in England by the physical-force doctrine of the Oliartists, and warned the people strongly against violence of any kind. He said the resolution for the non-consumption of exciseable articles was not yet . proposed ; it was saved for a great emergency. Ile would shrink from nothing. He announced his intentisin of attending meetings at Loughrea and Conne mara in the following week, where he would defy the spies and informers of England to produce confusion. He then pro ceeded to detail his plan of the management of the fran chise of the Irish Parliament. He would arrange them in such a manner that if the Queen chose to issue; writs for the assembling of the Irish Parliament in six weeks, they might be directed at once to the respective boroughs. He had taken the population of the Reform Bill as the basis of his plan. He (Mr. O'Connell) was anxious that men of wealth and station should join them (the Repeaters). The time was come when Ireland could no longer be governed for or by a faction. England had given them emancipation in 1829, but not equality. With re spect to the law of landlord and tenant, it had been said by Chief Justice Pennefather that the nature and intent of the Act of Parliament was only in favour of the landlord to enforce his rights. The law never had the interest of the tenant in contemplation at all. These were the words of a Tory :Lord Chief Justice.—(Laughter throughout the Court. ) Cross-examination resumed by Mr. Sergeant WARREN— Did you attend the meeting at Loughrea ?—Yes. State en what day that meeting took place ?—On September the 10th. Who were present at that meeting ?—Mr. O'Connell, Mr. Steele, Dr. Gray, and Mr. Barrett. Have you a note of Mr. O'Connell's speech at that meeting? —I have. Read it. Mr. Hsiex, traversers' counsel—ls this a - note you took yourself, and not a copy of another's report ?—Yes. Mr. Sergeant WA a eax—Read it. "Mr. O'Connell said he reeretted that the state of the weather would compel him to narrow his expressions of gratitude to the smallest space. They all knew there was high authority for saying that it rained on the just as well as on the un just. He would wish to give before them the outpourings of his heart at the splendid spectacle of that day. Connaught was doing well. He had around him that day enough of physical force to achieve the greatest revolution. But let them as semble peaceably, and Ireland would be again a nation." Sergeant WARREN —Did you form an estimate of the num bers that attended the Lourghrea meeting ?—Yes, I did. Sergeant WA a REN—How many persons, or about how many, were present, do you think ?—I should say about twelve thou sand. I was present at a public dinner on the evening of the same day. If I said that Mr. Barrett was at the meeting, I said so inadvertently, and I took the first opportunity to correct my error. Mr. Barrett was at the dinner. _ Sergeant WARREN—State the names of such of the tra versers as were at the dinner ?—Mr. O'Connell was there, and so too were Mr. Steele, Mr. Barrett, and Pr. Gray. I heard Mr. O'Connell speak at the dinner, and have a note of his speech on that occasion. Are you acquainted with the appearances of the traversers ? —I am. Sergeant 'WARREN—Point them out, if you please. The witness turned round, and, after some hesitation, said— " I only see Mr. O'Connell, Dr. Gray, Mr. Ray, and the Rev. Mr. Tierney." Sergeant WA RREN—Look round and try if you can identify any more of them? Ohl yes, I see Mr. John O'Connell. Sergeant WARREN—The traversers ought to be together ; this difficulty on the part of the witness arises, my Lords, from the circumstance of the traversers not being all here. 11Ir. WHITESIDE—I am rather inclined to think it results from the circumstance of their not having been all there ( Laughter.) The Learned Counsel alluded to Loughrea. COURT—Do the Counsel for the traversers admit that Mr. Duffy was at the Loughrea dinner? Mr. WHITESIDE—I do not admit that Mr. Duffy was at any meeting, except, perhaps, an Association meeting. Mr. M‘Dosiouc tr —I admit that Mr. Barrett was at the dinner. but not at the meeting. Mr. O'Con NELL—The witness did not say he saw Barrett at the meeting; hut he said he was at the dinner. Mr. FITZGIIIRON— Unless there be an attempt to dispute identity, we will readily concede the fact of any of the tracer sers having been at any meeting, which, in point of fact, they did really attend. Sergeant WARREN—You said you had a note of Mr. O'Con nell's speech at the dinner of Loughrea ; pray be so good as to read it.—( The witness here read from his note-book his note of Mr. O'Connell's speech on the occasion in question. The speech commenced with a denunciation of the Tories for having put into the mouth of the Sovereign a speech, in the sentiments of which she did not herself concur, for the paltry purpose of keeping themselves another year in office. He expressed above that what he uttered might reach the ears of her Majesty, and that she would learn that from the accession of her family to the Throne up to the present day justice had never been done to this country. ) Witness—Then, my Lords, Mr O'Connell proceeded to denounce George the First, George the Second, George the Third, and George the Fourth ; I have only a topical note of the proceedings just there, and, consequently, am unable to give his express words ; I only know that he denounced them. Sergeant WARREN—Go on with the reading of your notes of Mr. O'Connell's speech. The witness complied, and read his note, the substance of which was, that the Irish people had ever been distinguished for their loyalty and allegiance to their Sovereign, and they would never cease to be so distinguished, for that their loyalty was— " True as the dial to the sun, Although it be not shined upon." That the Government had commenced by threatening civil war upon the Repealer:, but that the people had not crouched to that threat, and that the menace, consequently, would not be repeated ; that the Government had spent. a great portion of the session in forging an Arths Bill ; and that he (Mr. O'Connell) would get his arms branded in perpetual proof of the insolence and tyranny of the Sax,in ; that the Irish people, if they were unanimous arid did not vio late any law, must succeed in obtaining their liberties ; and that they ought to humble themselves before Providence for the purpose of imploring that the virtue of perseverance might be vouchsafed to them, and that wisdom might be granted to their leaders to conduct them in the paths of peace and tranquillity into the temple of genuine and rational liberty, which was fonnded upon religion aed morality. " I tell the Times that those meetings are the safety-valves through which the boiling wrongs of the national soul" (witness remarks) I have lost the next word after soul, bet 1 suppose it was evaporate') " into the certainty of success ; they raise in them ( the people) a Divine hope that the days of the woes of Ireland will net last for ever." '1 he witness continued to read the speech of Mr. O'Connell at length in nearly the same terms as previously published, until he came to the following passage :—" Ireland wants no monarchy." Mr. O'CONNELL, who was sitting, as on the previous day, at the table, immediately under the witness's chair, here said, with the apnearance of much astonishment, "No monarchy ?" —I would make Mr. O'Connell's meaning more clear if I were to write out another translation from my notes ; but this is a literal translation of what he said. Mr. O'Connell did not mean to say that Ireland required no monarch, for he says afterwards, "To the Sovereign we are attached by the most dutiful allegiance." This part of the witness's evidence and explanation were very confused, and rather in an under tone, so as to render it difficult in the gallery to catch his precise words. Mr. Sergeant WARREN—Turn to the meeting at the Corn Exchange on the 13th ef September; look at your notes of that day's proceedings, and say which of the traversers were there? —Am I to give you an answer founded on my own observa tion, or from what I find on my notes. Mr. Sergeant WARREN—You are not bound to omit any names, if from your own knowledge you can speak positively of persons having been present, although you do not find their names on your notes?—Mr. O'Connell was there. His name is the only one on my notes; but I know Mr. John O'Connell and Mr. Ray were there. Sergeant WARREN—Refer to Mr. O'Connell's speech in presenting the draft of the address to the fellow-subjects of the Crown in every part of the world.—The witness then pro ceeded to read the speech, after which he said he had notes un connected, of the points in that address, and he read several disjointed passages, among which were the following . " They say that the English Judges are better than ours—l deny it." " Such a judgment as that of the English Judges, respecting the Presbyterian marriages, never was given on this side of a hot place."—( Laughter. ) When that speech was concluded what was done ?—Mr. O'Connell moved the adoption of an address to the inhabitants of all the countries subject to the British Crown, and that that address be placarded wherever the British Crown had power. You mentioned yesterday that you had received a manifold copy of that address ?--I did. i'sow read it.—The witness took up the manifold copy and had read about six lines of it, when he was desired to read the printed copy of the address, as it would be more easily perused. When the witness had read as far as the fifth article of the address, he appeared to be very weak—when The CHIEF JUSTICE said, this gentleman seems very much exhausted. Witness—l will be better in a few moments, my Lord. Judge CRAMPTON—Perhaps it would be better for the Clerk of the Crown to finish the reading of the address. The address was then handed to the Clerk of the Crown, who concluded the reading of the document. Here the Court adjourned. On again meeting The direct examination of the witness was resumed. By Sergeant WARREN— Was at the Clifton meeting; it took place on the 17th of September ; some of the traversers ( Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Steele) were present; does not remember any one else. A Juror—Only the two ? Witness—Only the two. Remembers Mr. Dillon Browne was there; heard him speak. (Head his speech from his notes. ) He said the men of Connemara had actea bravely in rallying at this meeting ; that if not so numerous as in other places, they were few, but brave. He wished Peel and Wellington were there to see their mountain cavalry ; and he would be glad to know if the heavy dragoons cou.d follow them through the mountains. They assembled that day to show their strength, not to violate the law ; they were resolved not to sully their conscience at the will of any despot. What he had said of Mr. Darcy was wafted on the wings of the press to the ears of that gentleman. Sergeant WARREN—Did you take a r. ate of what Mr. O'Con nell said on that occasion ?—Yes. Sergeant WA RREN—WiII you read it?—The witness then com menced reading Mr. O'Connell's speech at the meeting. He commenced by saying that the present was the most transcend ant meeting he had ever seen—that he was now making an ex periment, and he wanted to know whether they were not as brave as the rest of Ireland—whether Connaught was not as honest and as faithful as the other three provinces. —( Cries of "We are, we are.") Whether they did not hate Saxon tyranny as much as any other portion ?—( Cries of " We do more so.") All he wanted was, Ireland for the Irish, as France for the French, England for the English, and Scot land for the Scotch. The Irish were as brave and more moral, than any other nation in the world. The battle of Ireland was to be a peaceable battle, and he would keep them out of danger. They should proceed in a constitutional way, but if he wanted them they would come again. He wanted that every person should pay his own clergyman ; the Pro testants could then have what they liked for their own church, and the more they paid the better. The struggle for emanci pation was one for the advantage of the rich ; but Repeal would bring physical prosperity to the people. They were to use no violence. He came to teach them another lesson from that— that peace, order. and obedience to the law, were the means by which they would wrest everything from their enemies. If they had the Repeal, prosperity would flow in upon them, and would they not give a shilling a-year for this object' Every sergeant recruit, the m b t u o t e h n e hst told and th them tra Ireland him should ; bu t b h e e for the Irish. He again repeated that no violence as to be did paid anot shilling w•a nt to to eachentrap used. His motto was—" Whoever committed a crime gave strength to the enemy." He could not be doing anything that was bad when he had the support and countenance of the sainted clergy of the people, and their venerated archbishops. When they found him possessed of such support, they did say that he must be doing some good. Then came the quotation—" The nations have fallen," &c. Mr. Sergeant WAnues—Were you at the dinner on that day was. CHIEF JUSTICE—Let U 3 take down his answer corrected, and see what it is. What is your answer, Mr. Ross have taken a full note of all that I considered important and ma terial in that. speech ; for instance, I will give you. my Lords, an example of the sort of notes I took. When I came to a passage in the speech which I considered material I took it down ; for instance, there is a passage in the speech of Mr. O'Connell, when speaking of the Union, where he states that trade and manufactures had fallen off greatly in consequence of the blighting effects of the union. I considered that ma terial, and took it down. COUNSEL—The falling off of trade and manufaoture is rather material certainly for this country. Judge CRAMPTON—If I understood you correctly, your an swer is this—you took a portion, or part, of the speech, ver batim, and other portions of it you made a summary of?— Yes, my Lord, that's it exactly. Judge CSLAMPTON—Then, you can't give the words of the portion of what I call the summary part of the speech, can you? —I frankly confess I cannot ; nor do I pretend to do so. CHIEF JUSTICE—In the summary which you took down, I suppose you put down a catch-word, did you 9 —l will give you an explanation of the manner in which I took the notes. When Mr. O'Connell came to particular passages, I took up the words he uttered; for instance, he says here, " There is another bill of indictment against the Government, and he ( Mr. O'C. ) also read a letter from Smyth O'Brien. He (Mr. O'Connell) said the Welch committed crimes and they were favoured with an inquiry ; the Irish committed no crimes, and were, on that account, denied their rights." CHIEF JUSTICE—WeII, Sir?—Those are what I call heads, or the summary of two or three sentences, but I did not take the precise words uttered on the occasion. CHIEF JUSTICE—WiII you take on yourself to swear, to the best of your skill and judgment, that what you did take down contains the substance of what was spoken on that occasion? It contains the substance of what was spoken, certainly. Mr. Hess—lf I understand you right you have taken a verbatim note of what you thought to be material in the speech, and a summary of the remainder of the proceedings. Now, will you take on yourself to swear, that in the summary you have taken you have correctly taken the substance of what was said ? Why the topics—(the end of the sentence was lost, as the witness spoke so low). Mr. O'CoNNELL—Raise your voice, Sir ; the end of your sentence is always lost, for you let your voice fall so short, and so low, that no person can hear you. Mr. HENN—I want to know from you, Mr. Ross, if you pre tend to swear that you have correctly taken the substance of what Mr. O'Connell said in the discussion of the topics on which he spoke?—l have not taken a full note of the substance of the comments he made, but I took down the heads. Mr. HENN—Then you did not take a full note of the com ments he made ?—No, I slid not. Mr. HENN—Then, can you supply from memory the sub stance of the comments which he made use of ?—Yes. I would be enabled to do so on referring to my notes. Mr. HENN—Did you not swear, Sir, five minutes ago that you could not give the comments ?—No, I did not. Mr. HENN—You swore you could not depose to the sub ' stance of the comments most assuredly ?—ln general I can swear to the substance, but with reference to passages of the comments I do not pretend to give the precise words that were used by Mr. O'Connell. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said there was a preliminary question to be settled, and on which he was entitled to the judgment of the Court before the discussion went further. If the witness said he could give the substance of the comments, or the language of Mr. O'Connell on that occasion, they had a right to get it from him by reference to his book and memory. If the witness was not able to depose to all that was said on that occasion from beginning to end, it ought not to be con tended that he could not state such portions of the speech as he could depose to fully, and to give the portion of which he took the substance. It was a new proposition to say so, and one that he ventured to assert was not to be found in any law book. They had a right to get from Mr. Ross any portion of what Mr. O'Connell did say, and then let the gentlemen on the other side get the remainder from him if they pleased, and not presume that they (the Crown) could not get what they really were entitled to, and could give in evidence. M. HENN—Why, strictly speaking, you could not use the notes taken by the witness at all, except to refresh his memory ; if there was a written publication given in evidence they might read a portion of it, and it would be then for us to use the re mainder of it ; but when a witness takes a partial note of pro ceedings, hr is not entitled to use it. By the strict rule the witness could examine his notes to refresh his memory, and he must rely on that then. Judge CRAMPTON—I think you confine your objection to the short summary taken of the speech by the witness, or do you extend it to the words that he is really able to swear to ? Mr. HEN object to Isis entire evidence, unless he has taken a full note of all that passed, and I therefore submit his evidence cannot be received. State to the jury who were the traversers present at that dinner.—Mr. O'Connell, Mr. J. O'Connell, Dr. Gray, and Mr. Barrett. Look at your notes ?—Oh, no, J. O'Connell was not present I was thinking of Mullaghmast meeting, when Mr. J. O'Con nell was in the chair. Look to your notes of the Clifden meeting?—There were present at the Clifden meeting Mr. O'Connell, Mr. Steele, and Dr. Gray. I don't remember that there were any other of the traversers. By a juror—You said that Mr. Barrett was present ?-1 was confounding this meeting with that of Mullaihmast ; the only persons present at this (the Clifden) meeting wero—Mr. O'Connell, DIP. Gray, and Mr. Steele. Have you a note of Dr. Gray's speech on that occasion?-- Yes. Dr. Gray in answer to the toast said— Have you a note of the toasts preceding that ?—No ; I have no note of the loyal toasts. Dr. Gray, in answer to the toast of the people, said —" That formerly the aristocracy tyrannised over the people, but the people were now showing the bearing of men, determined to be free—that h e was muc h struc k w i t h the difference in the bearing of the people then and that exhi bited by them some two years before, when he had visited that place. Let their conduct be firm, and let them flinch before ne tyrant landlord, and where w as th e man t h at would dare to eject them from their holdings because they were repealers ? Let them observe peace, order, and tranquillity, and they would finally triumph. Mr. Sergeant WARREN—Hare you a note of Mr. O'Con nell's speech on that occasion ?—Yes. Read it.—( The witness here proceeded to read the speech, which commenced with expressions of delight on the part of Mr. O'Connell at the majestic sight whi c h was presented on that occasion. He said that Leinster, part of Ulster, Mun ster, had done their duty, and n ow C onnaug h t was at its post. There was then (said the witness) a sentence a b out v i rtue and religious sentiment which I was not able to catch. The speech then went on to refer to the prosperity of Irela n d un der a domestic legislature. He (.Jr. O'Connell) might be asked why, when having so much ph ys i ca l f orce around h i nt, he did not make use of of it? He replied that he would use it, but not abuse it. Iteure w as legal an d mora l co.n bi nat i on. There are then, said the witness, the words " poetical imagery" —(Laughter)—but I have not the whole sentence. The words are not mine, but Mr. O'Connell's. The speech went on to express Mr. O'Connell's delight at seeing the thousands and hundreds of thousands that poured out of every valley to the meeting. They would use no violence--they would reserve their strength till they were attacked. But the Government would not attack them ; the English Government said they would not attack them. To that s t atement he would reply, " Thank you for nothing, says th e ga lli pot. " — (Laughter.) They could not catch an old bird with chaff—( Laughter)—and they would not catch an old lawyer with chaff.—( Laughter. ) (The witness here stated that a sentenco followed, which he was unable to catch, and then proceeded.) Mr. O'Connell then alluded to the reports that hail appeared in the news papers of the first meeting of the Arbitration Courts, Dr. Gray in the chair, and the announcement that they would meet every Friday after. He stated his conviction that they would work well, and hoped that hereafter he should be able to apply the principle on a more extensive scale, so that before long he should deprive the principal Courts of half their busi ness. He would play a game that should checkmate the Go. vernment in time. It might be necessary to go slowly to work, and that the people of Ireland should continue their confidence in him, but it was better to go slow and sure, than fast and uncertain. In allusion to some opinions that had been expressed in the newspapers, ke said he never took advice on matters of lay: from the newspapers ; he relied on them for matters of fact only. No country in the world had an abler or more honest press than Ireland ; and it was a great proof that they were in the right road, when they found so much talent in the press in listed on their side ; but he could not take the law from them. Ile had more projects in his head for checkmating the Govern. ment, but he should not speak of them. Ile said further, that the English Government had done nothing to conciliate Ireland. They had offered nothing as a remedy of their grievances but a miserable compromise, giving them what children called the smallest half. At present his monster meetings were almost done ; there were not more than seven or eight to be held. He remarked on the conduct of the people at those meetings which had been held, and the extract concluded by an eulogium of the moral and religious character of the people of Ireland. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL—Did you make any calculation of the number of persons at the meeting at Clifden ?—I did. What number attended ?--Five or six thousand. Were you present at the meeting of the Association at the Corn Exchange, on the 27th September ?—I was. Which of the traversers did you see there ?—Allow me to look at my notes. I never was a day without seeing some of them. I only ask you as to that particular day.—Dr. Gray, Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Ray. Did Dr. Gray make any remarks on that occasion?—He did. Have you a copy of that report read by him, or do you know what was the subject of it ?—lt was with respect to the Arbri tation Courts. Is there among these documents (handing them in) a copy of the report read by Dr. Gray ?--I have not a copy of that report. Were you furnished with copies of any documents on that occasion connected with the Arbitration Courts?—Yes. Have the goodness to read them. Witness then read one of the documents. It was an un filled up notice that an Arbitration Court had been appointed for the d istrict of --, and that Mr. -- hod been appointed to furnish every information that might be required. It was signed, Thomas Ray, and printed by Mr. Brown, 36, Nassau street. Judge CRAMPTON—I understand ; that is quite sufficient. CHIEF JUSTICE—We will admit the evidence, considering that we are acting in conformity with the well-known principles of the law. Sergeant WARREN—Proceed, and state as fully as you can, from your notes, the speech of Mr. O'Connell ; and when you come to the portions which you hare not taken fully, er where your notes are imperfect, state so. The witness proceeded to read the speech of Mr. O'Connell for a few minutes, and then, ad dressing the Court, slid, "Now, my Lords, I have come to the point at which my note; are rot so full—shall I read them ?" Mr. Justice CRAMPTON—Do you object, Mr. Henn? Mr. HENN—If the witness can give the substance and mean ing we do not, my Lord. We call upon him to go on. The witness then proceeded to read—" 'f he Union was not a compact or agreement. It is not valid. But it is said, that although it was carried by the foulest and most atrocious means, that it has worked well for Ireland. I deny that. From the Declaration of Independence, in the year Have you any other document connected with the Arbitra tion Courts ?—Yes ; but not on that day. Other documents were handed to witness, and from them he selected one which was read by the officer of the Court. It was headed by a harp and crown, and ran thus These pre sents ate to testify that the,Loyal National Repeal Association has perfect confidence and perfect reliance on the ability of Mr. --, as Arbitrator, to dispose of, adjudicate. and settle, any disputes that may arise in the said district of --." 1782, up to the year 1799, there never was a country progressed more rapidly, and I have the authority of Lord Clare to that effect. Before Emancipation, no man spoke of repeal but myself ; I always looked upon the Relief Bill only as the means to an end—but a step to repeal— and lest that should happen, which has since happened, namely, that I should be accused of suppressing from tke people of England my intention ultimately to seek for it, I always de clared my determination. In my address to the electors of Clare, in the year 1828, a contest which was of such import ance in effecting Catholic emancipation, I distinctly put it forward as an inducement to the electors to vote for me, and I promised that if I obtained a seat in Parliament I would bring the measure before the house. I have now, for the last time, vindicated myself from the charge of concealing my inten , ion, and I will read an extract from Mr. O'Driscoll's book, dedi cated to the Marquis of Lansdowne." The witness tken said he had not taken a note of the extract. Sergeant WAR REW—Have you any other documents respect ing Arlsitration Courts, which you received that same des?— At the meeting of the Repeal Association, which was held on the 16th of October, I got a document which purports to be a copy of the . rules and regulations to be observed by arbitrators, and also by persons in various districts of the country who wish to submit their disputes to arbitrators. Sergeant WAUREN—Read it. The witness, who appeared to be very much exhausted, handed the document to the Clerk of the Crown, who read it. It was as follows: " RULES TO BE OBSERVED by ARBITRATORS IN DISTRICTS, THE PEOPLE WHEREOF MAY CHOOSE TO SUBMIT THEIR DISPUTES TO ARBITRATION. POWERS OF ARB ITRATORS. " I. Arbitrators will remember that th e y d er i ve th e i r l ega l powerfthe and award of the arbitrators, and will th ere f ore b e care f u l never to enter on any case , until both partie s h ave consente d to disputingto adjudicate part i i n es a , n y submit th e i r di sputes to the arbitra tionoto given case, so l e l y f rom t h e consent submit the cause of dispute to their decision. This consent should, in general, be had in writing, and the name of the ar bitrators, as well as the cause of dispute, should be stated therein. The consent (which is legally called a deed of sub mission) should then be signed by both parties in presence of a w it ness . In trivial cases, a verbal consent, in the presence of a witness, will suffice ; but, as in the case of a written consent, the arbitrators should be named by the disputing parties. o IL—lt is illegal and an indictable offence for arbitrators to administer an oath. In hearing cases they will therefore not only not administer an oath thern•elves, but they will not permit the disputing parties or their witnesses, or any of them, to take an oath, or use such asseverations as may be deemed or son strued into an oath. Neither ought the arbitrators to take any form of an oath themselves. " Ill.—Arbitrators may, when duly nominated by both the disputing parties, decide and adjudicate in all cases ex cept such as are called felonies , as theft, forgery, p ass i ng b ase coin, and such like. " The cases that more properly belong to the province of arbitrators are such as hither to chiefly formed the subjects of expensive litigation in the magisterial and other Courts. Such as wages, debts •f all kinds, disputes between employers and the e mployed —including servants, labourers, and mechanics— trespass, disputes concerning meanings_claims on foot of al leged damage sustained in any mode whatever, whether by breach of contract, or by assault and battery. In cases of as sault, the complainant must seek for the recovery of damage sustained as the result of the assault committed, and the arbitra tors may award to the injured party any amount of pecuniary damages that they may diem a just recompense. " IV.—Arbitrators are not limited as to the extent of their jurisdiction as are Justices of the Peace and Assistant Bar risters. They ma y, when duly nominated, adjudicate in cases involving any amount of property. In all cases, however, over '2Ol. a stamp will be n ecessary to ren d er t h e consent (or deed of submission) an award legal; but in all cases under that sum, the consent and award require no stamp to render them binding in law. The ordinary sche dule of stamp duties, to be had at the office of every vender of stamps, will show the amount of stamp duty required in each case, amounting to, or exceeding 201., and the arbitra tors should direct the disputing parties to procure same, and the cost of same should be allowed, in making up the award, to the successful party. 3lr. HENN—Are you able, from memory, to give the sub stance of that extract am not. Witness then proceeded to read the remainder of 3lr. O'Connell's speech, where he stated that from the year 1800 to 1828 the British Constitution was only in existence in Ireland during an interval of five years, and stated 31r. O'Connell referred to various Acts of Parlia ment passed during that time. Mr. HENN—Are you able from memory to supply the sub stance of what was said?—No. Mr. Hee understood you to say you could ?—Mr. O'Connell quoted several Acts. Sergeant WARREN, for the Crown, submitted these inter ruptions ought not to be allowed. Vitness proceeded to read the portion of Mr. O'Connell's speech, where he relied on the vast falling off in the trade of Ireland. There were more cattle sold at 13allitiasloe before the Union than since. There was not one head of cattle ex ported then for every 800 exported now. The Irish people consumed them, and did not export food. Ile took the trou ble to look over Lord 13rougham's speeches, and Mr. O'Con_ nell referred to several passages. Also the report of the Poor law Commissioners—number of destitute poor in Ireland-- comparative number of Protestant and Roman Catholics—that the Welsh, who committed crime, were much better treated than the Irish, who committed none. H e proceeded to give a summary of the conduct of Ministers during the last session of Parliament, which closed with a speech of an extraordinary nature, and said he was greatly pleased with the Morning Chronicle, which he was not generally in the habit of being from the way in which it described the speech. It stated the speech was the very essence of stupidity or impudence, he forgot which, for his part, he thought it contained both. He would not banish the impudence from the stupidity, or the stupidity from the impu dence, but rather have both combined. He denied any inten 'ion of speaking disparagingly of the Queen. He separated her acts from those of her Ministers. Kings condescended to scold and Queens to speak hastily of him. Ile called a Minis terial speech base, bloody, and brutal, and he never retracted what he had said. The present was a Ministerial speech. They could not help giving it utterance. But he blamed the Minis ters for not having advised the speech to be given by commis mission, and not have compelled her Majesty to speak it. But she could have expected no better from them. At the very commencement of her reign the vilest insinuations issued from their villainous press. A dropsical complaint of one of 'the ladies of her Court gave rise to statements which out raged every feeling dear to a child or woman, and which he would not venture to repeat in the presence he was in. Did they not inflame the mind of the English public, until a mis creant thought he would be doing a good act to shoot the Queen? He loved the Queen, the object of his kindliest affections, and, consequently, with his station, felt towards her the tenderness of a parent. He thought it was cruel towards the people of Ireland to disturb the affection they entertained, by making the Queen utter this speech, and make them be lieve they never trusted the English, but were deceived. If they had given the speech by Commission, he would not blame them ; but all should recollect this was not the speech of the Queen, but the Ministers ; but there was nothing in the speech to retard, on the contrary, it should rather stimulate their ex ertions. They had now the additional motive to rescue their beloved Queen from the hands of those Ministers. He be lieved if it had not pleased God to give her a family, her life was not safe among them. The Queen's family had this peculiar merit, that they stopped the irregular ambition of one who it was frightful to think would come to the throne. Nature had placed their innocence as a barrier against the worst calamity that could be inflicted on the nation. Oh ! thank Heaven, there is that security against the worst evil that could possibly happen. We have a double motive for our exertions—to rescue the Queen from those miscreants, and our country from tyranny. We have the two highest motives that can give energy to human action, love of country and al legiance to a woman. Rally, then, with me, and hurra for the Queen. I now come to the Ministers' speech, and Peel, Wel lington, Stanley, and Graham. What a scene for the con queror of Waterloo, with the Queen in his hands, to make such a speech to Parliament. She is made to whine out something half-piteous and half-imploring about the real of her subjects. The Queen is made to say, I have done something for the good of the Church, about being unable to do more, and leaving the rest to the zeal of her subjects. The Duke of Wellington, if poor Napoleon had been alive to witness his defeat (then fol lowed some references to the Church of Scotland and the disturbances in Wales). It is my opinion that the Legislative Union is inconsistent with any good object whatever—that instead of being essential to the strength and stability of the empire, it tends to produce weakness and decay—that instead of being a bond of connexion between the two countries, it is the very thing which puts the continued connexion in jeopardy. Circumstanced as Ireland is, I am perfectly convinced that if the union is not repealed by legal and constitutional means, and above all, if it does not take place during my life-time, the result will . be a san guinary struggle m for perpetual should be u separsd. I do notaation,and God say this dforbi is a forbid that any unjustifiable natural or unavoidable result; all I say is, while I live I hope my countrymen will not despair. As long as I live, at least, I will struggle legitimately and constitutionally ; and I bequeath to those who follow me their own course of proceeding. He concluded by a motion for a committee to prepare an address to be placed before the Queen and all her subjects. Sergeant WARREN—Was the motion agreed to?—Yes. Have you taken a memorandum of any approbation or disap probation of any part of that speech ?—No. I was present at a meeting of the Association on the 4th of September. Mr. O'Connell, Mr. Ray, Mr. John O'Connell, and Mr. Steele,'were present. Mr. O'Connell spoke at the meeting. The witness then commenced reading his note of what Mr. O'Connell spoke on that occasion. He commenced by referring to the meeting which was to take place at Clontarf on the Bth of October and to the prospects of success for the repeal. He then referred to the Queens Speech, and the effect which it produced on the Irish mind. The Ministers dared not to make that speech till the end of the session, when it could best be ex posed to view. A weak and miserable Ministry was incapable of resorting to any other advice. He congratulated the people en the increase of the repeal feeling among them, and also on the symptoms that were apparent of a better temper among the high-flying Orangemen of the North. He mentioned the surprise he felt at seeing a sensible letter with the PAW of "ORDER OF TROCEEDINGS. V.—The form of notice from the plaintiff to the defendant, should be signed by the plaintiff, and the notification appended thereto, signifying the willingness of the arbitrators to act, if duly nominated, should be signed by some one of the arbitra tors of the district. " V I.—After the parties have come to the place of hold ing the arbitration, and before the plaintiff be allowed to maka his statement, the arbitrators should ascertain whether both parties be present. If :hey be not, the hear ing must be postponed. liut if both parties be present, the arbitrators will inquire if they mutually consent to submit the cause in dispute to their arbitration. Should both con sent. then tke arbitrators will follow the directions given in Rule No. I. Should they, however, not consent, the arbitrators will, on no account, proceed. any further with the ease. • " VIL —The parties having indifferently chosen and named the arbitrators, and consented to abide by their decision and award, the arbitrators will proceed to hear the case in manner following : —The plaintiff should be called xam respectively on to state hi s case, and having done so , h e ma y exa mined alled by the a r bit rators , an d cross examined by the defend an t. Th e witnesses for the p l aint iff t o b e th en e by yecttihe defendant.velyexamitied T b h y , „ t a he „ arbitrators it t r h a e to p r l s ai, a o ri dl d cross-examined and having closed, the defendant should then be called upon to make his statement, and having been examined by the arbitrators, and cross-examined by ;he plaintiff, his witnesses are to be called, and a similar course pursued :o that directed in the case of the plaintiff's witnesses, The case on both sides having closed, the arbitrators will proceed to make their award, which must in all cases be in writing, and be signed by the arbitrators named by the disputing parties, and by none others, save the S ec r etary , who must sign as witness. Whew so signed, the award should be publicly read by the Chairman. " Note. —In all cases of arbitration, the wife or child of either party may be examined; and a witness may be called a second lime should the arbitrators think fit. It may be ad visable, for the purpose of eliciting truth, that the witnes. , es on both aides should be sent out of the room until required for examination. " VIII.—The disputing parties, or either of them, should be allowed to have the aid of professional men if they choose. In such case the professional agent will state the case, and ex amine and cress-examine witnesses, instead of the party litigant, as stated in Rule VII. " IX.—Should th e ar bi trators find a dif f iculty in coming to a decision in any case, a reasonable time may be taken for making the award ; but it is advisable that, in all cases where it is practicable, the award be made immediately after the hearing. "GENERAL RULES. " X. The arbitrators should sit in a room open to the public ; and it is deem e d a d visable that all man if es t a tion of approval or of disapproval b y t h e suitors or audience, b e prohibited, as cal culated to disturb the proceedings. '° Xl. The A r bi trators will 'cause the secretary to make an entry in the minute book of each case that comes before them. Should there be no appearance to the notice of complaint, or should the case have been settled, he will enter it accordingly ; and should the case be heard, he will enter the particulars under their respective heads. " Xll.—The original deed of submission and the award are to be carefully preserved by the secretary, as they may be ne cessary for the futu re secur i ty o f t h e res pective parties f rom NNW PINRIsr It Will be his duty, however, to supply eqies of the award, free of expense, to each of the parties, if applied tor. " Signed by order, "JOHN GRAY, " Chairman of the Arbitration Committee, " Loyal National Repeal Association. " A copy of these Rules should be posted in some conspi• coons place in the room where the arbitrators sit." Sergeant WARREN—Look at your notes, and see have vou a memorandum of the appointment of any arbitrators on the 27th of September for the districts of Kingstown, Dundrum, or Blackrock ?—I remember that Dr. Gray made a speech on that occasion in reference to the appointment of arbitrators. Sergeant WARREN—Have you a note of that speech ?—Yes, I have. Sergeant WARREN—Read it.—The witness read from his manuscripts a note of a speech delivered by Dr. Gray, on the occasion in question. The substance of the speech was, that he (Dr. Gray) as chairman of the Arbitration Committee, was commissioned to inform the Association that the Committee had under their consideration the form of a testimonial in favour of such persons as they thought tit to recommend to the office of arbitrators, and he then proceeded to read the doeu tent alluded to, a copy of whirls the witaeas produced. Did any appointment of arbitrators take place that day ? I have a memorandum on my notes to the effect that several gentlemen were proposed as arbitrators and agreed to. I know that Mr. Nugent, of Kingstown, was appointed, and returned thanks, and Doctor Gray moved that the Chairman should be recommended as an arbitrator for Dundrum, whereupon the chairman returned thanks. I was present at the Mullaghmast meeting. I took a note of the proceedings of that meeting, which I hold in my hand. Sergeant WARREN said there were certain extracts from that speech, as reported by the witness, which he wished to have read out. He wished to know whether the Counsel for tile traverser, had any objections to having certain extracts read from the speech, or did they mean to insist, as they had a right to do, that the entire speech should be read over again ? It would be in the recollection of the Court that the speech hail already been read in its entirety by Mr. Hughes. Mr. FITZGIBLON—If your two witnesses agree, Sergeant Warren, in their reports of this speech, I really cannot see the use of having it real, or any part of it, over again. But if, on the other hand, you want now to give a different account of the speech from that which has already been deposed to, I cannot see how you can do so, for surely you caw have no right to pit one of your witnesses against the other. So which horn of the dilemma will you select?—( Laughter.) Sergeant Wsteles—l don't want any horn of a dilemma. I merely wish to have certain extracts read from the witness's report of Mr. O'Connell's speech, and I ask you whether you. require to have the w hole speech read, as you are entitled ? Mr. FrrzGraeos—We don't require anything. Take your own course. Mr. lIENN—If the two extracts correspond in omnibus, there is no necessity for reading the second, but if there be any discrepancy, I think it very essential for us that the whole of the witness's notes shouldtbe read. Sergeant WA RR EN—I believe that the two reports do corre spond, fors I trust to the .reporters ; but lam unable to say positively, for, I have•not examined the reports. Mr. HENS—We have no opportunity whatever of knowing whether the reports correspond. Judge CRA rToN—You have only to state that you wish the whole s ., tieeeli rend,:alr. Henn. Mr. Sergeant WARREN—State from your notes what Mr. O'Connell said at Mullaghmast ?—There was considerable confusion at that meeting, which 'inconvenienced me, and pre vented my taking some of the first of Mr. O'Connell's observa tions. I had not an opportunity of ' , taking his 'first, words, but he was speaking of Para ; I put down the word Tara first, and then I go on. The witness here read Mr. O'Connell's speech, which agreed as nearly as possible with Mr. Hughes's version of it, and very slightly differed from the report as originally published in the Freeman. Whenever he missed taking down a %void, he said, " I lost the next word." tle read on until he came to the' passage—" Peel has 500 colours in his flag, and not one off them permanent—to-day it is Orange, to-morrow green—and next day it is neither one nor the ether. One of the Scotch historians, Allison, says that if Wellington got well out of the battle of Waterloo, it was by the British troops, and by their unconquerable. I have lost the remaining words of that sentence. He then mine to a quotation from a song, which he introduced—. " At famed Waterloo Old Wellington would look blue, Only Paddy was there too." And I have lost i the rest..—( Great laughter.) He said further about the Duke of Wellington, They had no place for him in the Cabinet, nor no duty for him to perform, except that ofra sort of inspector of Anti-Repeal W ardens. I selected this Rath for obvious reasons to hold this meeti n g,. for it was the spot on w hi c h E ng li s h treachery, ind Irish treachery too com mitted a massacre unequalled in the annals of history, except by the murder of the Mamelukes." When the witness was done reading the speech, Sergeant WARREN asked him it he was at the dinner in Mullaghmast ?—I was. I suppose you took a note of Mr. O'Connell's speech at the dinner ?—I did. Can you recollect how many of the traverser, were present at Mullaghmast ?--There were present, Mr. O'Connell, Mr. Ray, Mr. Steele, and Dr. Gray. Now, at the dinner who did you see ?—I saw Mr. O'Con nell, Mr. John O'Connell, Dr. Gray, Mr. Steele, Mr. Ray, and Mr. Barrett. Did you take a note of Mr. O'Connell's speech upon the latter occasion?—Yes. Read it. —I will. I have also notes of Mr. Barrett's speech on the same occasion, but my notes of his speech are very in complete. Mr. M`Dosouctr—Your Lordships, perhaps, did not hear what the witness said to Sergeant Warren. lie stated that he has a very incomplete note of Mr. Bart ett's speech. Now, we had from Mr. Hughes yesterday a very perfect note of that speech ; anti I take the liberty. on the part of Mr. Barrett, to do n ap o p ts l t : h • rgi t t t e : ka t n h itt e o rA. u ß r E n N o t t o o j e t e n s , . i e ) _ t h i r a v i e c o I m . incompletecomplete note W (t of any part of Mr. Barrett's speech? If you have not I ve.ns't ask you a word about it. Witness (having looked over his notes)—No, Sir. Sergeant WA RREN—I should be very sorry to ask you to give any statement of it You said you had a complete not. of O'Connell's speech at the dinner ; will you reel it ?--The witness went on to read the speech made by Mr. O'Connell, which took place at the Mullaghmast dinner. He (Mr. O'Con- Dell) asked on that occasion was there any Repealer brought before a bench charged with any crime? Was there any of them brought before a magistrate for a breach of the peace ? Ne, not one. They (the lii-h eople) had made a moral de monstration which no country on the face of the earth was ca pable of producing save Ireland. They (the Irish) had met in immense numbers without the slightest violation of the laws of God or man, and yet that country and such a people were enslaved. Mr. O'Connell the, spoke something about the cold water cure, but I did not catch it.—( Laughter. ) Mr. O'Connell continued, and said the only way to obtain the Repeal of the Union was by the peaceful wurkiog of the Irish people themselves. They would not commit a Ineaeh of the peace. They would not commit a violation of the law. He went on to read that portion of the speech relative to the Duke of Wellington, in which it was stated that if a man hap pened to be born in a stable it did not make him a horse. Witness continued reading Mr. O'Connell's speech for some time longer, and the direct examination being ceneluded, Mr. Henn, Q. C., commenced the cross-examination. Mr. HENN—WiII you state what time you came to Ire land first?—The first time I came was in July, lEt43. I was never here before. M H -•- - - - here to report the proceedings at the meeting held at Donny- Was there a contested election in Carlisle in 1841 ?—I rear: brook—you could not report unless you had a place on the do not remember. If there was an election, it made no ira• platform to hear and see. Tell me to whore did you apply ?—I 1 pression on my m i n d. do not know. 1 And you say ycu don't know w h o th e can didate was?-IHow did you get to th e mee ti ng ?—I went t h ere with a, do not. gentleman connected with the Dublin Evening Post; he Do you remember any election in Carlisle ?—Yes, there wall being well known did everythins for me, and got me a place on an election in '39 or '4o—it was an election for the county. the platform. Look to this placard, it is a dd resse d to t h e wor ki ng classes You said when M r . O'C onne ll arr i ve d t he re was great con- of Carlisle ?-1 have looked at it, h ut n e ver saw i t until now' fusion ?—Yes. I may have seen it on the walls. Let me look at the date. , That was created by p ersons com i ng on t h e p l at f orm?— (Witness then looked at the date, and said he mistook the It was. dale; he never saw that placard before. ) There was no breach of the peace—no alarm on your part? Mr. Henn handed him another placard, an address to the —No. working classes of C ar li s l e, and he said he never saw that Mr. HENN—You would not give 50,0001, to get away from either. it—(Laughter) —was not all quiet and decorous?—lt was. Now, you edited the Carasle Patriot in 1839 ?—Yes. you report of what o ccurre d a t D onny b roo k you transcr ib e d Look at this (handing him a printed document), ha ve __ from the not es y ou t oo k ? — Y es . any recollection of that ?—I have not the slightest recollectipla Have you that paper ?—Yes. of it. Now, having c ome over i n a d ou bl e capac i ty, d id you furn i sh a Was it not publishrd in the Patriot as a leading article? ---1 report to the Government and to the Morning Chronicle ?—Yes. do not know. I have no recollection of it. To the CHIEF JUSTICE-1 ass i ste d i n preparing a report Can you say that that did not appear in your paper?....l for the Morning Chronicle. cannot say. Mr. HEN N —W as t h at on t h e same day ?—Yes, it was on B ut i t may have appeared ?—lt may, Sir; I cannot JAY it Monday. did not. Did you on that d a y copy t h e s h ort-hand notes you took to The article to which I call your attention says — tiro.' " •• ur e s furnish your repo r t t o th e Ch ron i cle? Oh, no ; I sent off by test in the most ardent manner against the conduct of the post that ni g ht, an d i t was not more than thirty flues ; I only magistrates in compelling us to give evidence against the Pr'. wrote a portion of Mr. O'Connell's speech without referring to loners." Do y ou remem b er t h ose words ? -4 do not. my notes at all. Sergeant Waiters; begged to interrupt Mr. Henn. When did you w r it e ou t th e report f or Government?—On the M r . H ENN —I th i nk I amentitled now to ask him w ill _ next day. he swear that this was riot i nserte d i n the paper with his sad Is it a full report ?—As full as possible, except in those per- tion ? tions to which I have referred. Sergeant Wait REN—He has already stated that he has no re. I understand you took a verbatim rep or t of wh a t you consis collection of having seen that document before, and, therefore, dared material ? Yes. you have no right to read one word of it. You cannot he always precisely verbal?—Oh, no; and the Mr. Justice CRAMPTON—Certainly not. change of a word might otter s mak e a ver y material difference Mr. HENN—Very well. lam entitled at all events to . a l ‘ .' in the sense of a sentence . him this. Will you swear you did not, when editor of the P a' But of those part s y ou did not cons id er material you did not triot, protest against reporters being examined ?—I said be f ore take a note ?—No. I did not. You took what you call topical notes of what took place 7 I k now you di d, but answer me again ?—I did not make 1.11 Yes. such protest — even i n t hi s sentence which I have us ed But you do not pretend to say that you even gave the sub- (Laughter)—l made no such protest. stance of what was s a id i n t h ose spec i a l notes ? - 1 do not un- Th en you did use the sentence ?—You mistake roe l..- derstand the latter part of your question. I took notes in such did not. a way as not to misrepresent the een,e of the speaker upon those Were you in the habit of reporting in the House of Cow points on which he spoke ; bt,t Ido slot pretend to have given mons ?—Yes. the words, or anything like them. I suppose you often reported Mr. O'Connell's speeches 7—t Do you pretend to any you have given even the substance of did —very often. the observations made o n the va r i ous topi cs 7 -1 do not know Did you ever state that you found considerably difficulty ill how far the expression " substance" ezends. following Mr. O'Connell ? Yes, I did. Mr. HENN—Why substance is substanc e , and it is so plain a And that is the fact ?—Yes ; almost all reporters find dim' word that it could not be made plainer.—( Laughter. ) Did cuity in following Mr. O'Connell. you give the s ons ub ? stance?—l gave the substan c e, or mean i ng of Nvr o the Don n yb roo k meet i ng was perfectly qu i e t and the observati e a ee a bl e ? I t was. Of all the obs erva ti ons ? Oh, no. peaceable?—lt it not so at the Clifden meeting ?—lt was. What then ?--1 he discussions of these topics might have was as it not so at Leughrea ?—lt was. occupied twenty sentence, •; but those twenty sentence, might Was it not so at Mullaghmast?—lt was. contain but one idea, sod I on l y pu t d own t h e id ea. —( A 14 4 1 0 And at Clifd en you saw men corning on horses, with theu W hat are the topical note,? —The substance of the obeerva- wives behind them ?—(Laughter. —I cid. • lions made on the vapou r t o p ics a ll u d, d to. And numbers of the cavalry witho ) ut any saddles or bridles' , Now, Mr. liras, having escaped from the savages —(Loud (Laughter. ) —Yes. A slaughter)— on and got ba c k to Lrlen, you got courage to come Y ou were not frightened ?—No, I was not frightened at - i_ bark again ?-1 did not come b ac k again. any of the meetings ; I kne w th at near any of the traverse rs Why, you were only at D onny b roo k fi rs t ?—Oh, yes , I I was sure to be sate, and I al wa y s kept near theme''' came back. (Laughter. ) Were you not under the same alarm then, as at first ? Yes, Was it so wet at the Clifden meeting as to interfere wi th I was ; 1 had experience of only one meeting tnere ; but it your reporting ?--No, we had an umbrella over us—still it WI 'was not in the neighbourhood of Dublin that I was afraid ; I unpleasant. entertained apprehensions at first. Were you able to take notes fully ?—Pretty fully. Were you then in the employment of the Chronicle ?—No. But only " pretty" fully ?—Yes. Did you come as a reporter for Government?—No, 1 came Did you at end the meeting of the Repeal Association et] th e as a reporter for the Standard. 4th of September ? Yes, I (lid. Not on the part of the Government ?—Yes, on the part of There used to be a great number of persons besides al the Government also. traversers at the meeting of the Association—used there not Who recommended you to the Standard?—Myself. —Yes, there used. Were you known before ?—Every person connected with the The room was very large in which the Association bad to press knew me in London. meet?—Yes, it was; I think it would, probably, held as maul You know Mr. Bond Hughes, then ?s e -Isit s. I, have not the as this rain. ' '''' '-' ' ' '-''' ' ''-- ' "-` ^ ' ' 'pleasure tilkieWrig - Sli:lfirglie4. —4" 4 ' - "' 4 ' 44- Used large n um b ers to atten d t h e meetings and the d i nn er! Did you see him here ?—Yes. He knows you ?-onl7 by reputati on . in the cou n t ry ?—Y es, t h e d i nners and meetings were very DI Your reputation recommended you to the St an d ar d 9-.-1 did merously attend ed. Answer me this question, Sir, if you please—Did you at sot not say itein that way, but 1 believe it was my reputation that of those meetings see any of the traversers do any' act inconsis recommended me. tent with the duty of a peaceable citizen?—Do any act? Ye s ' a Having been thus recommended to the Standard, you came Was there any tendency to a breach of the peace at any °, 13 , - , here on the part of the Standard and the Government, and of these meetings ?—No, there was not ; I attended the rtreetl °6 with that intention you attended several meeti n g s of the Asso- of the 4th September at the Corn Exchange. ciation ?—I did. Mr. Herne, after cross-examining the witness at grea t i , Now, you will tell me how you got access to the Association. length, in reference to his connexion with the CarliP_ Was it your reputation introduced you there ?—No, it was either Patriot, and the protest put forward in that paper, whilst bl the gentleman who went with me to Donnybrook, or another was editor, against the examination of reporters, proceede d gentleman from the same establishment. to ask him several questions, on the subject of a speech o f —Yes. you tell him you were connected with the Standard ? Mr. O'Connell, made at a meeting of the Association, der i c c —Yes. ing the course of which he read a letter from Dund d And with the Government?—No, I did not want to tell him respecting Ribbonism. The witness declared that he 131 that I w as connecte d w i th the Government. taken no note. He was cr oss - exam i ne d i n re f erence to , You saw Sir. Hughes ; did h e k new you persona ll y ?—Y es ; speech of Dr. Gray, delivered in the Association on the 27th' he was, lam told, in my company about seven years ago at an and a speech of Mr. O'Connell, in moving the insertion d a entertainment given to a gentleman. the minutes of a letter from Mr. Napes, of Lougherews I t i 1 Did you send re p orts to t h e Chronicle ?—I sent reports of a letter from Lord Londonderry. Mr. O'Connell on tha t three public meeti ngs t o t h e Ch ronicle. occasion denounced in strong and emphatic Wig's!,, When you c ame h ere , did you come for the Standard and the conduct of Mr. Conner, in attempting to give non . Chronicle and the Government 2—Yes. of a motion for the non-payment of rent, and moved that 10 Did you ;end reports to the Standard, Chronicle, and Go• name should beexpunged from the list of members, which 03 ° . vernment ?—I did to the Standard and Chronicle, but not to lion was carried unanimously. the Government. I wrote the report out here. Did you not tr ansm i t reports to London?—Yea, Mr. HENN her e c l ose d hi s cross - exam i nat i on. Standard a n d Chronicle. to the By J u d ge PE RRIN— Did not send the report of the D oo oY' The Stand ar d i s a Government paper?—l never disclosed brook meeting to any n ews p aper ;i t was very late at the t ime' cross_examin e d by Mr. H aTcsrEee—Saw Mr. Hay at M u . • de. the fact that I was here on the part of the Governme n t until highmast, on the scaffold, and spoke to him there; came ,__ last night. rect from London in August, by railway; took a strong jaw: May be you stated that you had come here for the Chronicle rest in the Cumberland election of 1837; knows Sir Jame alone ?—Oh ! is it I? 1 never stated a falsehood ;n my life, Graham. and it is too late now to b eg i n . 1 did not s t ate a t all that I Mr. HATCHELL—Had in mes Graham June last? came here on the p art o f the Government. There is one with Ja whom lam c onnecte d - 1 mean my wife—whose wishes and The ATToRNET-GENERAL objected, and the Court rule feelings I always consult—(Much laughter among the ladies in that the question could not be put. the gallery, and the persons in the body of the Courtj—and Sr. HATI'HELL—You may go down. she was averse to my coming here a s a Government reporter. The Court adjourned to ten o'clock (punctually) to.inur* I had my own feelings, too, on the matter. An artist of re- row morning. putation, who had been asked to exhibit, in Dublin, a picture containing portraits of celebrated Englishmen, had refused to do so; and when a gentleman, such as he, entertained appre hensions on the matter, some allowance must be made for my having a reluctance to state why I came. Well, then, I take it for granted that yen would not under take the business for 50,000/. ? You (lid not communicate the matter to the Morning Chronicle?—No. Now, Sir. Riiss, you attended at Loughrea, Clifden, and Mullaghmast meetings. Did you send reports of the proceed ings at each to she Chronicle ? I did not send the report of the Mullaemast meeting to the Chronicle. You are acquainted with the prisons who represented the Chronicle there ?—Yes. Had you any communication with him at that meeting ? Yes; he was close to me. Oh ! then, you know Mr. Geary ?—Yes. You at e quite sure you did not send that meeting to the Chronicle 2—Yes. Did the Chronicle pay you for that meeting ? The Chronicle paid me only for what I sent. Did you charge them anything for the Mullaghmast meeting? —Yes, I did.—(lndications of surprise in the Court.) How much did you charge for sending them nothing ?—Oh, they got the Mullaghmast meeting. Gear. then (lid the whole of the meeting, but you charged for it, anti got the money ?—No. What !—Allow me to explain (witness, turning to the SIXTH DAY—BY EXPRESS. SATURDAY, JAN. 20. The Judges sat at ten o'clock precisely, at which hour the traversers were in attendance. The jury having been called over, the evidence for the Crown was resumed. The first witness called was Mr. John Jackson, the Irish correspondent of the Morning Herald, who, having been swort i l ' was examined by Mr. BREWSTER, Q. C., and deposed as , t l .° o ; logs: —I ass connec t e d w i t h t h e press—with 'the Lon Morning Herald. l am t h e I r i s h correspondent of that Paper, and was so in the course of last summer and last autumnt n attended at the me e ti ngs o f th e R epea l Association. I Was i s the habit of tran sm i t ti ng regu l ar l y to L ondon by the post r e. ports of what took place at those meetings. Mr. BREWSTER—My Lords, I w i s h to appr i se you th a t it is not my i n t ention to ma k e this gentleman go over all ~,, s:;ceches which the Court has already heard. I will cow:: myself almost excl us i ve l y to as ki ng him who took pare at LP' meetings. Take these dccumelits in your hand, Mr. JacksOth and see whether they are the original notes which you sent t ° London?—Yes, they are. Is this paper which 1 now hand you your report of the :nee' . ing that was held on the 30th of May last ?—lt is. I wish you to look to page 3of that report.—l are it. n ots . .... ._ Jo you see in these notes a report of a speech made ur Ir. _ENN-Were you muc h ( F i g m ent ,' a t th e idea of bench, said)-I regret I must state those circumstances, but that occasion by :Mr. O'Connell ?-Ye I do. coming over?-Yes, I was frightened a little. lam compelled to explain. This, gentleman, Mr. (scary, Read the first few liees. -The witness proceeded to 0 4 the report. which commenced by noticing the fact of :If; Mr. He N N_l s upp os e y ou f oun d th e a l arm false?-Why, yes. wanted some money to enable him to go to those meetings, in O'Connell's having directed the atteution of the Assoeiatio ,_ e Mr. HEN N-I suppose you were paid fairly for coining over 7 order to send . reports to London. I advanced him money . on several occasions for that purpose. On this occasion, being a , error , Yes, I got 3501. which appeared in the report of the proceedings of ,=_, Mr. lIENN-Altogether do you mean? I got 501. for the run a lit t l e s h or t, I wante d some money my se lf, and he could Longford Repeal meeting, which had been published in ° Donnybrook, and 350/ for attending all other meetings, and up get no supply of money from London, and he therefore pro- Freeman's Journal of the same date. In that he ' ca l nmy msde to apply ' report 0' to the next session of Parliament. posed that the Mullaghmast meeting should be sent over i the phrase "ruffian soldiery" to the arra) , hid Mr. lIENN-You have fount it a profitable speculation, name, as I should be sure to get paid for it. Great Britain ; but he begged leave to state that he ne j Did you get the money from the Chronicle for that meeting ? then ?-Yes, I have. used any such expression. 'She circumstance to which he in i . Mr. HENN-Have you ever made as much money in as short -I did, but I gave it to him. alluded in his Longford speech had reference to the pathet. i e e a time before?-No, I have not ; I have sometimes done very Having attended at those monster meetings here, may 1 ask ballad of " Aileen Aroon." He (Mr. O'C. ) then proceeded 1 " you whether you have ever, in the course of your duties in well, sometimes not. his customary strain to -(Laughter.) Mr. HENN-Have you ever taken the benefit of the Insolvent England, attended at any of the great public meetings there ?- er t 3 alr• I3REWSTE R-That will do. Act ?-I have once. Not at many, but at some of them. Go to p age 6 now an d rea d f rom that ; I believe you b......al Mr. HENN-Only once ! when was that? I was arre s t e d on At any of the y Anti- Cornslaw League meetings?-No, I not seen thos e manuscr i p t s s i nce you sent them to London ? the 25th of June, and my petition was heard on th e l at h of never reported an of them. only got them from Mr. Kemmis to initial. 6 st July, I think ;it was some time before I cams over. Don't you think it very wrong that a reporter should be Take that document, and refer to the meeting of June Mr. HENN-You have stated that the employ men t you have called upon to give evidence ?-No, certainly not. I think the Association. I should observe, my Lords, that this ge,"" undertaken was suggested to you by some person on behalf of a reporter should obey the law of the country ; and I tlernan's evidence applies only to the meetings of the Assoell y the Government-who was that person ? never heard that uestioned until I heard it by some gentlemen tion at the Corn Exchange, and nothing else. Sergeant WARREN-I object to his answering that question. here. 'Tis preposterous. -(Laughter.) in this Mr. lIENen-I have a right to t es t th e accuracy o f t h e w i tness You were not always merely a reporter ?-No. Look to p age 1, an d see w hi c h of the traverser, were at t hat way. You were, I b e li eve , an e di tor ?-I was. meeting ?-D an i e l O'C onne ll . Lo o k l ir sergeantWAaneN-Thisprincipl e wasdecided in Hardy's case, W ere you the editor of a newspaper called the Carlisle -Y es , th e M em b er f or K ilkenny, Mr, John O'Conce the" and Lord Erskine distinctly l a id it d own t h at a witness em- Patriot ?-I was . there to page 6, an d see if t h ere were any others of ployed by Governm en t i s no t o bli ge d t o di sc l ose t h e name of his About what time?-In the years 1837, 1838, and 1839. I.llr. Barr e tt, o f th e Pil ot , and Mr. Steele. Go back to page 6, and read a portion of Mr. O'Conetel l' l employer, and Lord Chief Justice Eyre also said that though in What were the politics of that paper ?-Conservative. speech. - Witness, reading, "He (Mr. O'Connell) Itse se se general a witness may be asked such a question, yet the secrets Are those your own politics?-They are. yesterday amid the scenes of Saxon cruelty, and the sangum% of the Government ought not to be laid open unless in an ex- Were they always so ?-Not always. Cromwellian, cold-blooded butcheries, commencing with. 1 , 11 0 teems case. In Philips on Evidence, the doctrine was also For the last ten years ?-The title has not existed for ten murder of Sir Charles Astley." (Mr. O'Connell correcting t' stated. Mr. Philips says that though under ordinary circum- years. witness, " Askell"), Sir Charles Askell, and ending with the stances the credit of a witness may be tested in this way, yet But the principles might ?-True enough. little drum boy. Why, Now turn to where he announces the meetings he has fixe n d f witnesses will not be permitted always to disclose the What were you before you became a Conservative ?- names of their employers, and it was not proper to inquire if I might define it-- to come off, lied read.-" I will be at Kilkenny on the Bth ,-„, w h at o ffi cer under the Government hid induced a witness I only ask you to name it ?-Why, I might answer that June ;at Mallow on the 11 th ;at Murro e o r Abi ng d o n on e !" to come forward. He quoted this from the Ist volume of if I may define them 13th ; at Ennis on the 15th ; at Athlone on the 18th ; at 1 ° 1 ; Philips on Evidence. In another case Mr. Gibbs had asked a "In moderation placing all my glory, niskillen on the 21st."-(Mr. O'Connell, " Oh, oh," I° . witness under cross-examination-How came you to go ?By The Tories call me Whig-the Whigs a Tory." laughter.) thew iiness again corrected himself Ennistysrs° ° ' whom were you sent ? The witness replied_lf it b e a fair been complained of (said the witness) by some of my own at Galway on the l ot h ;at Dundalk on the 29th. t he ques ti on I will answer. Chief Justice Eyre said-If you family, who are strong Liberals, for being a 'auk Tory ; arid I Did Sir. Steele snake a speech at the meeting ?-Yes ; choose to answer the question you may; bet I will not insist have been condemned by some of my To r y f rie nd s for being Steele came forward amidst great cheering, and said than 0 upon it. The then Attorney. General said, Ido not think the too much of a Liberal.- ( Great laughter.) I had received a letter, stating that the Glasgow Re peelers Vero examination should be permitted to go on where the delicacy of And perhaps, both were right ?-P er h a p s so . I c an only Ito hold a banquet on the 29th ; and Mr. O'Connell handeei t , the witness is interfered with. Mr. Gibb 3-1 don't see arrive at a mean by the asset lion of opposites.-(Laughter. ) , a sovereign from an Englishman, who blushed for the LT° w h ere th e delicacy is. Lord Chief Justice Eyre--I do not lam glad you cam e over tu Ireland to enslighten us ! When t mere by his countrymen of the noblest race ir, th e world. A , think it proper to press this wit e e ss t o an swer . Th e nature you edited the Carlisle paper you h a d re , o bj ec ti on t o tell me i Mr. HATCH ti.L. asked if this meeting was set forth ire 1 " of the connexion between the parties ought not to be dis- what denomination of politics you belonged to?-The title bill of partiuulars? closed here ; and Mr. Gibbs then add e d-I w in n o t press the existed at the time, designating a body of men who enter- Mr. lintEwsrEit said all the meetings' were set forth id it ' q stion In Monaghan's case there wa s a l so an objection. Mr. tainted opinions in reference t o ' m ien, aff a i rs , i n whi c h, gene- , but he would now turn to that of the 4th of July. Erskine's ue' question went to test the credit of th e witness ; but ' rally I concurred with them. If you ask me what I was before Mr. Forso made an observation, which was inaudible ies the Lord Chief Justice Eyre held it was a most important rule fur that, I should say, a moderate Whig before the Reform Bill gallery. re the public that the nannies of persons were not to be disclosed, passed. Mr. BREWSTER should not tell the jury that, because, there unless they were material to the case. He referred to pages Never had a touch of the Radical about you ?-Never ; I was no such meeting. It was struck out. ( Handing wiitne4 807 and 82 3 . When Mr. Erskine wished to examine a wit- ; had the same feeling as all young men in favor ot Liberia in- enother document), Look to page 1, and tell me which of lil j ness as to information obtained from a particular quarter, and. stitufions, end I trust I shall always entertain it. !reversers you find attending that meeting ?-Mr. Daniel 11° asked if the information came from a man or woman, the Mr. HENN-And I h e p e y et , may i ns p ire the Government Mr. John O'Connell, Mr. Steele, and Mr. Hay. Chief Justice would not allow the disclosure to be made. The with a similar feeling. Go to page 7, and say if there was any money received theca Am es rule was clearly laid down in Philips's Law of Evidence. NVitness-I don't think it at all necessary. from America ?-Yes, several sums were. handed in from A el- e Mr. HENN, Q. C.-There is a manifest distinction between ,W. re any of the members of the ' , resent Gevernment con- rice. 3lr. Duffy and Mr. John O'Connell were present at 111 ‘ the principle here, and that relied on by the Crown-between fleeted with that Carlisle paper ?--Not that I know of. 1 °' meeting which took place on the sth on July. I see page so questions arising out of cross-examination and front the direct. ' You clen't know who the proprietors were while you were toy notes of that meeting ; Mr. O'Connell said he wished „. This is a questions arising from the direct examination, and I t edit e r ?-No, not one of them (after a pause), except from their call the attention of the meeting to two points ; he had another was rather surprised to hear it asked in a leadine form, " Was own statement. eeived a letter tram a person in Sligo which inclosed anot;, i t no t sugge ste d to you on the past of the Government ?" and Do you remember a prosecution of a person named Taylor at l e tt er f rom a dis c h arge d soldier, who stated that he stsse e s e , i , the witness answered in the affirmative. lam now t es ti ng his Carlisle-Dr. Taylor-and g i v i ng e v id ence on that oceasio n ? ploy ed by O'Connell to drill the peasantry. He (Mr. 0%0%, credit, and how can I test the accuracy of his anseer unless al- i -No, I do not. bell) then called the attention of the meeting to the Ilib b , ° e s lowed to ask the question? You do not. Is that your answe r ?-Why, if I gav e any conspiracy which existed in the north, and said it was origins ke Chief Justice PENNEEATHER-The Court are of opinion evidence, or answered any quest ions , it mu s t have bee n about by the Chartists in Scotland. He (Mr. O'Connell) spOtrf the distinction taken by y ou Mr. H enn , ma k es no difference ; . some very ueimportant matter, fur I don't recollect it. ' ,se about Lord Cloneartby who attempted to prevent his ten° Very likely : I suppose it was a topical note you took of it as from going to a Repeal meeting. the protection must be upheld. Mr. HENN then proceeded with the cress-examination-You ' ,ou didn't consider it material?-1 took no note: at all. It f t re" Was Mr. Ray, the secretary at that meeting ?-I don f had a communications with a p erson bi g }, i n office?-Yes. was just an examination before magistrates. O that. The witness proceeded to read an abstract ° , 4 Shortly before you came from England, were you in connexion I Fee your recollectien is revivin g . Now, I again ask ou Sir. O'Connell's speech in which he alluded to the Marquisvg were you riot examined before the Magistrates ?-1 don't re-with any newspaper ?-Yes, the Morning Chronicle. How long in connexion with that paper?-About a collect that I was, Duwnshire, who endeavoured to prevent his tenants from gli e to a Repeal meeting or joining the Repeal Aesociation• oe , year. Did not you protest, upon th e hi g h auth or it y o f a reporter, (Mr. O'Connell) also read a letter from America on that ell that you should not be called upon to give evide nce ?__Wisness casion. I see page 4 of my notes where Mr. O'Conn- Does it support the present Government ?-No. t the Were you in connexion with any other paper ?-Not at that (apparently astonished), Oh, certainly not. moved that the letter be inserted on the minutes, and the , 10 . time. Are you sure of that ?-s ure o f if ! I „o ver did an y such thanks of the Association be conveyed to the writers. or Were you at any other time ?-Yes ; the Times. Arc in my life. poi (Mr. O'Connell) said there were allusions in the rip , When did your connexion with the Times cease . In 1836: Did you take any active part at elections in England ?-No. which came well from America, as the tone of it was or _ When with the Morning Chronicle 9-After the last session Not at all ?-No. sponsive to liberty. The witness continued to read a s ltto of Parliament. Did you always confine yourself to the mere drudgery of re- tion of the speech made by Alr. O'Connell. Be i the Since then, have you been engaged by any other paper ?- porting. -When? O'Cdimell) concluded by moving " that the thank , ° ow Yes ; by the Standard. During the course of your connexion with the press ?-No. I meeting be sent to the subscribers in America." T he ly. Then, when you came here in July were you not connected have occasionally written articles. with the Morning Chronicle ?-Yes ; I wish to state the tion was seconded by Mr. Steele, and passed una ni V : '- u ise. Did you ever write an election squib ?-Not that I am I see page 10 of my notes, and observe a portiren of t fe, reasons why I came. aware. If you will show anything of the kind l'll tell you im- O'Contiell's speech ; the notes are not in shoei-handn 4 ; 00 , Mr. HENN-You have already given 330 substantial ones for snediately. ' John O'Connell read a letter on that day from Wilt ni of coming.-(Laughter.) Do you remember an election at Carlisle ?-Yes, , Delaware, which letter contained subscriptions ; a voten to Witness-If I had not come as a newspaper reporter, I would Do you remember a Alt. Wentworth standing as a eandi- thanks was passed to the subscribers. The witness went ° „ e ll not come for anything. date ?-"-No. read portions of Mr. O'Connell's speech. Mr. O'Ci n a " riy e Would you not come forward for 100,000/. ?-Oh I I might You do notl-I do not, ' said the people ought to avoid the example of 1798, and any' -(Laughter) for 75,000/. Mr. HENN (handed up an election placard to witness)-Do - thing like it, as it was by such means the Union was c arried' Ca , Why, would it be so hard to tempt you?-I was led to ap. . you remember that placard ?-No. tHe did not forget the language used by Members of the t p e el prebend some damage. Do you remember the name of the candidate whose name is binet ; Wellington, in the House of Lord,, and Sir Rober t . c i v il Well, now that you have come over, would you entertain the to it?-No, Ido not. I never saw or heard his name before, 'in the House of Commons, had the audacity to speak " t hey same apprehension ?-Now that I have seen how things are Were you connected with the public press in 1841 - Yes; war, but that would check the march of Repeal. Wh e . n an d if carried on, I would not have the same apprehension. I W 5.3 connected with the London press. spoke of civil war, let them look beyond the Atlantic the y Having been deputed by some one high in office, and while And do you t e ll me th a t y ou , w h o w ere connect e d with a the people were attacked they had the consolation to f e e l, o , in the employment of the Morntng Chronki e , you came to London newsp a pe r i n 1841 did not h ear of a contested dee- would not stand alone, but the people of Ireland looked t° j ' to) Iceland -Yes. . tion in Carlisle at that period 7-1 tell you again I never heard and under his advice they would never commence, b ut " Well, to whom did you apply on your :mini ? Ycru came .of rho names Were. i they was , attaiiked. te t o,c lac Co IN leo ley 110 O'i tin Ire Da %al 41 tei At