The Sun. — London, England, 1803-08-05 00:00:00

had accused hinv,of the precipitancy of a raw re. cruit, but the Right Hon. Gentleman was so - etsger to return the fire, that he forgot to put a bullet into his piece, for he merely heard the report, but felt nothing. The Right' Horn:lurkle Gentleman , . certainly had a fine piece of artillery, which he sometimes used with great efreB, • hut in general was morelond of throwing squibs and crackers, Of which he always had a plentiful supply in his pocket. . The next complaint of the Hon.-Gentleman was, that this measure was not brought,' forward soon enough . ; but this was a measure which could not • be brought forward .till the public Spirit Was iuffi. ciently raised, and if it had been brought forward Sooner, he was convinced it would not have been received as Well as it was. The Right Hon. Gen f tleman'h ad .repeatedly declared, that there was no spirit, no etier& in the Country, and yet be cent_ timed ,Ministers for not then bringing'forward a plan which:,cOuld only be received with pleasure, and , executed with vigour, when the Country was sen sible of its danger and animated with spirit to meet The Hon. Gentleman said, that the Country was full of bustle,, that it rang with the sound of preparation :—He was glad that it was, though it ' appeared to sound a little disagreeable in the Right • Hon. Gentleinan's ears. He had asked what would all this avail if Bonaparte were to come 1' He hoped 'Bonaparte would not come the sooner for that invi. tation, but if he did come, he would find inaddi.. lion to all our regular force, z?o,000 disciplined Vo.. lunteers ready to receive him. The Right lion. ,Gentleman- however seemed angry that the Bill was not longet - in the House, in order-that he might have more frequent opportunities of doing that which he omitted no opportunity of doing, viz. at tacking- Ministers, and censuring the Treaty ,of Amiens. In fad, the whole system of the Rt. Hon. Gentlerrian, was that of discouraging the Country, anti making it )ay clown in despair. What were the means which the Right Hon. Gentleman had used to encourage ; the Country ? First he said that . every man ought to exert himself as if the safety of the Country depended upon bin) alone; anti then, he said, that every possible exertion would be useless unless One particular person was Minister. That was one mode of encouragement. Then . he said that the Country h a d b een ru i ne d a n d d isgraced by the Treaty of Amiens, and that we had 'nothing like 'glory to fight for. • The next mode of encourage.. merit which the Right Hon. Gentleman a d opte d , was to tell th e Peopl e . that the . Militia or Volun teers,were not fit to Contend against veteran Troops, and,that we could only trust to a regular Force, knowing that at that time our regular Force was • mot so high as could be wished. He had heard of treatises on Musk and upon Painting, but if the Right Hon. Gentlenian was to print a treatise - on the best mode of Encouraging the Country, he was sure it would have the eftseet of throwing it into despair, unless, indeed, Bonaparte should buy op the whole EditiOn to distribute among his Army. The Right Hon. Gentleman had,latmelted . out into the praises of Mr.Colthet, and thought him entitled to a Statue of Gold; he hoped that ahe 'subscription for the Statue would be made on 'the Stock Exchange, .and that part of that patriotic weekly journal would be read to them, which stated that the whole of rite stecks ought to be swept away, for that their exist. cue was incompatible with the security .of the state. [Hfre, Dr. LA* R tVGe exroied tome dir. aPProb a t ;RAJ.] His Lear ne d Frien d seemed to groan at what he had said, but he had stated it correCtly. lit knew not whether his Learned Friend was TO have any share in the ereelion of this - statue, if he bad, he was sure it would be a Ca/cora/ one.:, He cot,r4nied with again expiesiing his approbation of the Mr.. W e SMITH said, lie approved 'of the Bill because it, went to a _general arming of the People, and therefore any thing that took ofF from that. effed he could not apllrove of: 280,000 Volu nteers car. tainly w as a very great number, but then they were spread over the whole •Country, and could not' be bFnught to a single point lie wished therefore to see the arming at the whole People go on as had. been At first proposed. _ Mr. ARCH DALE approved of the measure now before the House,,,but observed, that if he were to take dittaions froM Gentkinen on the either side of the I raise he should tie at a loss bow to act , be cause there was among those GenileMen so much variety of sentiment, that he could. not adopt them all wit hunt abwlute inconsistency. One Hon. Mem ber (Sir FRANCIS ilitraurr) had propoNed as the best mode of our defet;ce in the present crisis, to xepeal all the Laws which have past in the present reign, which was certainly a new, if not an effica. clout mode of defending this Country, but orwhich he would say . tio more, because the Hoti. Member who•proposed it was not present ; only he -could. oat:.: hell+. in partin g , f ro m t h e sent i ment, saying,: coming even from the Representative of the minty of IVliddlesex,' it was entertaining toug,ll A 5 to j i . utt had-been publish e d ; by' Mr. Gobbet, b4ets so much extolled by the Geoti • - WINDHAm he did riot think that Gentleman ( . • ), lion ; fo r . they were entirel y tree frorn objec tins i. e .' , ,I.n l some parts of these publications, Ireland with a certain number of troops, and sub.. du e it "pi • • a Ills was mit of thee , doatin e held • up to V i l s e osvorld by tha t Ge n tleman, anti for which, in ' P i nion; he d id not deserve to have a statue of .gold serefted for him. This was not a publication asyllieh niight be said to h ave for its objet iti'Make fair statement to' the four corners of 'the. earth,' as it hdd been formerly described, olthe 'condition of our araits; but it was a statement, which might aired the four corners of Ireland: To speak plain. I Y, he thought- that all. these general expressions wire _ in tended merely as, attac k s upon Mi nisters ; b ut he d id not thi n k t h at they were well timed, or well direded. He might be said robe a supporter Ministers; and upon that assertion another might be built, that he was under their influence, 'and'that he did not give an independent opinion. Now, if a l, ' anw was said to a c t un d er i nfluence, because he " 41 n e it her place or pension, nor ever was offe ed any such, or ever intimated a wish for either and that such a man was. not allowed to be impartial, a Which be h ope d was not impossible to be deratoo d, r even in the House of Commons, WhY, then be House that-h s was nut impartial; but until that Was made otit in argument, he shottlct claim. the charader of an impartial Member of that House. As to the conclu# of Ministers, Lie not help observing, that the course taken by the. Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Wiztrbunivi) was very irregular; if Ministers tnisconducled themselves, why did, not. the Right Hon, - Gentleman . move a proposition, signifying that they did .not possess the confidence of that House ? This was, in his apprehension, the right course . to be taken, since the. Right Hon. Gentleman appeared to be :so en. titely dissatisfied with these Ministers ; but .tu go on day after day, to depreciate Ministers, .and to reprobate their -measures, and Sometimes even to misrepresent them, was not, in his opinion, wise ; on .the contrary h was useless.and unavailing, lie asked what was the radical utility of coming i Sor. ward with observations; and distraffing thtb r t r mnds of men from their true duty at this impurtanit,,crWs, that of preparing to meet against the cornmeal gne my ; but the Right Hon.- Gentleman, sa,iB ARCHDAI,s, expresses hiniSelf in a way which . l Jim privileged 'to do (being an Irishman) which hn is not—namely, that .we are now raising a . number, of Volunteers against their will ; but I say that the Volunteeti ought to lie encouraged, and that all of us Shotiki go heart and hand together, and then we should produce that which ought to be the effect of Our united efforts, notonly consciousness of success; but. also prevention of danger. Mr. WINDHAM said a few words in explanation, tending to spew that he i ktill retained the opinion he .had .uttered with respeA to the Papers to which he had alluded ; he did not wish ta..discuss that matter now, but ' h e certainly never gave the opi_ nion which had been attributed to him by some Members of the House. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it was with great reludance that 'he- prolonged the discussion of the matter now before the Committee, already too long ; and feeling as he did the impor tance of it, and the propriety of carrying, the prin ciple of the Ad. which this was intended to amend, into execution, he should be sorry to fix on himAell the imputation which, he' contended, attached on some Gentlemen on the other side of the Ilt , uw, namely, that of proteading the proeceilingl of par liament, in such a manner as to interfere very,umeh with the necessary dispatch of public bu,ineSs..; yet he could ;tot help taking some notice of' the sentiments of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wl.NOttitist). It was supposed that a wrong im. pression had gone forth as to the purport of this .Biil. It was to be understood that -the force.to be raised tieder it was to be indefinite' in its amount, and this was to be left entirely to she discretion of th e Crow n, and His • Majesty would, no doubt, exercise his prer og . o i ce 'upon thi s as . upon .every other occasion, with wisdom, and for the general benefit of all his Subjects. That 'was the meaning of the last Bill. This. Bill ..was not intended to alter ter to touch that d'hcreticin in the Crown—it only afforded to His Majesty power to retieve certain descriptions of his Subjed!,, in certain cases, front the rigour of the Bill, when that might be deemed expedient, and to avail himself of that part of the force of the.Geuntry . which . was mast immediately etlicient, but ntlt to do away any part of the last Bill. That was a subject on which he understood there had gone forth a false impression : it was tie. cessary to he understood th at this.me ainre did not lout His Majesty's uniMhbted plerogative of call iug on all classes of his'Sebjeds for military ser vice, in case of actual Invasioo, but it was merely to empower His Majesty to• avail himself of the , most eircdual force in the first instance, without waiting Sur the raising of the whole mass of the People being trained to arms. Another 'mistake hid prevailed with respcd to the extent of the mi litary disposal of Volunteers, for they were not by this measure to be drafted into the Regulars. All these measures, however, might be 'superseded in one event, that of adult! Invasion, for in 'that case most indisputably His, Majesty h a d p ower by L aw , without this mt of Parliament, to call on every one of his Subjeets capable of affording military set vicet and in that event' every individUal . in this country. would he hound to go to any place within she realm die King might think lit to order—all this:however did nut render the system of .accept ing the voluntary service of His Majesty't.gulije o s improper—that was to be prefer r ed to any ot h er ; but ,this system need not interfere with a . ny other . plan that might be adopted, neither need the Corps about to be raisedby Gentlemee in different parts of the country be broken and detached, for at this mo. ment there were many Officers who had offered their, services, and which would be accepted, as well ash . many more which 'lie had no doubt wapiti be so, and which would, fires tattio, carry, into effed the true spirit of this Bill—which. Was - that of calling Ant° adion the true energy of the people . (if , this country. The Right Hon. Gentleman( . \Vim3 4 o had both gratified and surprized him to-night, for he had said, that this measure was to save thiveoentry.from danger, stud fret that was not the principle on which he had assented' to it, when fifst 'proposed, for he had then said, that. he 4honiti not object to it because he thrieght it would .do no harm ; but now it was admitted by the Right , Hon. Gentleman as a measure whichwould save this country from danger. SUCH . from having that kel. log on i ik t foriner occasion Was the Right Hon.. Ge n ',that he spoke of it with coldness and with Apathy, and at best with indifference. ' The Right Hon. Hon. Gentle Man had -changed entirelr his opinion when there'was not one point on which it .niight ,be changed, as-it appeared to others, for the inea ,sure was the same at present as it was then in its spirit ; but that change of opinion was Matter to be reconciled by, the bight Hot,. Gentlernas , nor should he endeavour to account for it ; but lie could not help saying, that it t h e .Public entertained as high a respell for the opinions of that Right Hon. Gentleman as tilt:) , did of his zeal, much of the doEtrine he had maintained in that House would be dangerous to thii Country at this moment. Of the Militia he spoke, until this day; with contempt,. and in such a manner as had produced disgust in the minds of the most respedabfe Officers of that part of our Military Force; but all the objedions of the . Right Hon. Gentle Man to that force had been an— sWered in the best manner ill whic - li speculative . reasoning can be answered,, by . the result if fads IN eve* which , - somi-,,Olise: did tOott- Oat* land, especially proved the reil 'ialut - bf our Militia' force. So` Much for the objt 4 !liont" of the Right Hon. Gentletnan-to our militia foice, - and also for his variety of !opinions on the DefenCe•• Biil ; but then the Right Hon.. Gentleman recurred to his fa, vourise top4coF late, that of iMpoting to Ministers a taidines.!; io.bringing fOrWard thi s measure. How did this accord with his opinions upon the subjed of recruiting the' Regular Army ? Did he mean to say .that this measure ought to precede the Army °lite. serve Would he say thauthis measure; should have been brought forwaid before the Regular or the Sup. pleMentaty Militia ? He,Could hardly say so—The Militia was deemed, and justly deemed, the Consti.' tutional force of this Country, and its efficiency had beeh abundantly proved in the late WarHd would therefore:ask, Whether the ''tight Hon. Gentleman thougltt this' Measure ought to l resorted to before we had,rnade out the itetultrdilitia ?—Would be previous to tdinti oftthit:Army . of Reserve ? If that was his wish; why?dirilse not 'say so. He had C-'a bundant opportunity fonsrhat purpose—Did henot dwell with:great ardour on the principle of our in creasing our Regular Army, which he said was the Nuclera of our strength-in.case of Invasion, a n d th e topic constantly dwelt upon by the Right Honour. able Gentleman was, that' We ought to con. tin tt e•. drafting for the irregular into the re. guiar Forces, • and he had Proposed that the. • ages slrould be from . t 6 to 60, to which Mr. A DDINTI - ON said he objeded, upon which subject . it Rt. Hoo. Gentlemah (Mr.P.; ro• had delivered his opini;in with the weight' that belonged to every thing that fell frOtri him,' 4t id the age' was - settled to be from IS to 55. This' Was on the first dis coision of the present measure, and he would ask hoW it h:fpperied 'that . no such opinion as the Right Hon. Gentleman had lately Alivered, escaped him at that rime ? But after ad he would ask,' whether ; the .Right Hon. Gentleni..D th o ught th at - suc h ainea .. sure as this could he oarried"foto efild without the approbdtion of the Public as a matter ce.msonant to their feelb.gs ; and did he believe that the public. opinion and leelinA were in favour. of the mea_ . sure bebre the nece:,s`gity and 'propriety of it had ben 1011 y explakq ed'ilibift.• 'lt was explained to them, .tilt! he wal'haplry t, ''its ;ti!k they folly approved of it, • because they Were'ekiiiViiieed of its necessity ; but tftis could not be done svithout tittle; and yet Government had been accused of delay ; upon which ' he could .not help saying, that he never heard the charge of delay exhibited against Government with. Out feeling its' glaring• injustice,. nor was he 'urt fotioded in that feeling, for he knew the Magistrates all over the Country who had to carry. the Mea sores of Parliament into execution, had been asto. nished that any delay was imputed to Government in bringing those measures forward, when the truth was, that these proceedings came fpon them with more celerity than they could , keep pace with :—lt was a general complaint of the Magistrates, that they could not execute the Legidative'provisions of the latterpart of thisSessioo within the time allowed f o r that purpose; so that Ministers.were so far Nom being accused of delay •by those who were best,. by practical' experience, able, to form a tort-eft judg , ment on the subjeCt—nainely, those Who had to carry their measures into execution, that they corn. plained of the proceedings being too rapid. What. then would have been the circa' of iill these.measures coming before Parliament - at" once That question answered itself : the execution 'of some of the mea-. , sures would s:ive been inipradicable. Indeed he thought the. Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. WIND frAM) I)ol . Ze . Op many subjt:is mast indiscreetly in that'll: , use, ..should never cease to be of opinion,•that the language of tit mt R;ght. - Hon.,Gen. tletnan, during, the whole period which had elapsed since the Message of the Bth of March last, had been caleul teed (although he was permuted not intended) to add to the hopes of the Enemy, and to depress the spirit of the People of this Country. The • Right I Itlll. Gentleman :Must be mortified to trod: that an exultatiOn IQ the French tea; the result t►f hi s opjoitAlS as they had been expressed in Parlia,.. meat, - and yet 'so it was. He was very far frond . supposing that what the Right Hon. GsMtleman said did not proceed from the purest motives i• he would 'go further and'say, that he believed oo persons nut of too approved of the motives of dust' Itight Gentlenun Who dissented from his opinions : he, verily believed theitmli:t, , bttfiii, that the Right Hon. Gentleman took a wrong standard of human at!tio'n it regarded, else: People of this . Country, that: war: to say,, he .meant to Wm k them up AO their duty through the medium of .theit. fears, which he maintained 'was an erro r to'n os inciple t o guide the actions of the brave a nd free, such us & T wirler) were. This appeared to hiM to be the error to jutlpsdert of that' 'aright Hots, G en .. tleinan ; and this hal led' him to say many w hi c h h a d ' an efrA, and led hilit also to censure the measnr.:i of Ministers, Which were not fourided'on ; hut rho Right Hois..Gen. tlethari wasi - ptirsui,j :t wrong comso, in perpetually eomphani og M.ssissers i4l . the .De.ll;s les o f t h at House.: rea:ly thought them, treat any-cause, unfit for their aito oitss, he ought to move the House for,, an Address for their Dismissal. If he could sheW, that which had appeared abundantly his wi,ll to shew, that alttfough there was now laid •a foundation for a largerforse than, ever existed in this - Comnry before, and that of a nature Much less expensive, abd more effidieni for its defence anti absolute security, and that in the course of be. ing effectuated with.. M an unprecedented erl 'ty ; if notwithstandi4 all, this, and nisters lia4 done 'every thing in their power for the weifire aitheir Countri 3 , - yet if he was'olopi nion they were (for 'aisy rea-..c,n,}so matter what), unfit for their s tat i on s„ .tiiiivoirtlT of •ihe confidence o f the King, which they'pOssesseLf. let him address the House upon that subject, and . take the sense of the House ' tro t s it, aid so that Matter would be at rest As' fat as -it regarded Such Minister s ; lsut it Wa'S a principle which he was .ittcapable of compre hending,to endeavour to :withdraw, without a 'direct motion, the confidence of tile HouseOf Cominons ' from those Ministers who had the confidence of the King : and here he was under the necessity of talc jog notice of the language of that Right Ho- . noutable Gentleman upon various occasions, and particularly 'that - after the Treaty of - AMiens, and before the ittiturc4—'.That language, Was calculated to product 'that the lan: guage he had iiniVersallY held- in that Hoo4 'as caleUlated to tell the French; that such wag the ti. midiry ni the Government of this Country ; the French might inttslt us with imptinity ; for. that the Ministers of this Country would pin up with any insult that might be offered to them ; that the Go. vernor of France might make any demand he pleased on this Country, for It was Stare to be complied with 6 This, to such a mind as that on Widch t his language operated, had produced, or had COntributed to produce this rupture, and had put us Into a state of War, which, however, considering the views and the objetts of France before •we entered into it, he did not mean to say wass - a misfortune, compara. tively speaking; with reference to other evils, and this the Right ;Honourable Gentleman admitted, nay .insisted upon; for he had forcibiy impressed upon the House. and ,upon the Public, the policy of the presentWar—God grant it might'sooh terminate, but that was not ratiobally to be expeCted while the enemy had any thing to hope by continuing the eon. test; which should certainly not end until it could be so with perfeet honour to this country ; and it could not be honourable to this country upon 'the narrow view of its own exclusive safety or welfare. --=God grant that the conclusion of—the cc nfliet might soon take place; but still, if the Right Hon. Gentleman really differed from His Majesty's Mi. nisters—if he thought them unfit for their sta tions, let him address the House at once upon that subject; but let him not on every occasion which the forms of the House afratied, seize the opportunity of holitihg forth .to the enemy that The Government of this Como; is unfit for its ouri pose ; this was only to lessen the real energy of the Country and - increase the confidence of its Foe. On the contrary, while Ministers had the confidence of the „King and of Parliament, for nothing to the contrary of that assertion had ever yet appeared, he thought they night not to be de. rived of the cOnfidence of the Public. But it was observable that }tight lion:Georlcman had An utter contempt for every opinion but his own, ants he' was Convinced that the general sentiments of the Right Hon. Gentleman were iinprwßicable as to any ose ful °Ned, as far as they related to the political situation of this Country in regard to.itS.Admit•i stration. If lie prevailed on the House to addie,:s His Majesty to 'dismiss his present Ministers, he doubted very much whether the wishes of the Right .Honourable Gentleman would he gratified, if he wished, as most probably he did, to torus' those who were to succeed them, if it Was his wish those who were most opposite to the prezrent Ministers, for he did not lidieve that the Right Hon. Gentleman would agree with all of them. There was a greater incongruity of sentiment be. tween that Right Hon. Gentleman and some of those who had been his Colleagues, now, than there was formerly ; how. then was the Right Hon. Gentleman to be gratified ? by no means, unless his opinion was to he the sole guidance of His Majesty's Coun. cils, an event of which there appeared no•probabi. lity, for if the question were put -to every person in this Country, he believed, tb.it although almost every individual. woulii approve of the motives, yet few indeed would adopt his opinion, and therefore at this critical conjuncture he did ,not think the Right Hon. Gentleman was rendering hii Country strvice by the course he was faking. Dot/or L.IIVRENCE adopted the sentiments of Mr, WINDHAM, and disapproyed ui the minticr in which Ministers had conduittfd themselves upon this occasion, and observed, That lie remembered the time, when much of what had. been said to-night ; by the CHANCELLOR of the i'..XCHIQUER have been deemed irregular,, because irrelevant to the question before the House. Mr. ALip‘ANDER, who was in the Chair, said he thought the Debate, had taken somewhat of a mote.general turn .than was stridly applicable to the subject iminediatcly before the House. Dodor LAwßitvca then entered :very, much at large into the discussion .ref. the matter before the louse, and approved throughout .of the sentiments qf Mr WINOnAm upon this, and every other ure sign, since the Treaty of Amiens. The Bill , then pasSed through the Cortimittee,, and the report to be received to-morrow., • The American Treaty Bill 'passed through a Com mittee ; report to-morrow. Mr. AL vx Ar: rit broil :rht up the Reports of the Stainp Con'it'cilidation' Bill; the Tortola Free Port bill, The *Ccinsolidared 'Fund Bill, and the Ware., lt,tusihg Bill ndi;ch a CiAtise Was introduced to save the p'rivileges granted to the Docks in Lon. dun) which were severally read and agreed to, and the Bill's ordieed to be read ►► third time to.morrOw. The F►'oacign Notes Bill was read ' a second time, and committed fir to.morroW. The Mier, Biil':was read a third tine and paaaeci. .Canada Ciiiirrs 13111 passed through a Corti. iniftle'LL4he ItiPoii .. .reeeived, arid the Bill ordered to be' reada third - time to.inorrow. The Neutral hips Bill p.lssed through a Corn. • inittee, in wltiicli . a Clause was introduced to extend it to Ireland,- Report tn.tnocrow. . In a Committee on the Assessed Taxes Bill, some conversation took place between Mr, GARLAND, Mr.VANSITTART, and the. Ctia.sic EL LCIlt Of the Ex. t i EQD E R, respetling taxing Windows above a eel.- tain width as double _Windows, when it at length agreed; on the proposition of Mr. VANS IT. r.r, that the double duty should commence upon tho ) e Windows which exceeded 4 feet 9 iodic% ill width . , and 31 feet in height. The Sugar Bill passed through a Cominittre.— Report to.morraw. Adjourned at half past ten till to-morrow. PRICE U. itoxy. Hank Stock lintia Stock Navy s pet Cent. Ssit India Bonds eerl, en t , ,797 t .5 9 1 I.x. hitt& is. 2s. MI. iiiStt s per Cent. . Otni)ium 8 8 b . 4 ref Cent. Con. 69 - 1311 harper . 3 pert-um. sal 3 per s3i 4 I Ditto Anns. Per C. Con. Slith 3} a& Bank for t , nk L. A. 1614 Cons. 101 Aug. 534 61 2i Ditto short r;• S TO CKS, vxsl i