The Sun. — London, England, 1844-06-18 00:00:00

spiOr of the PUBLIC JOURNALS, lilt Oar TUE EVENING PAPERS OF YESTERDAY. GLOBE.—Of all the funny things we ever read or heard of, we think the most lugubriously funny was yes terday's meeting of creditors of the great test and West India house, whose Calcutta branch failed lately, and who§e sudden dissolution of its Jamaica partnership brings its affairs to a final crisis. Whether the connexions of the firm, who consider they have cause to complain of it, shall support its credit, or whether they shall whistle it do*n the wind, and leave Peel and Gladstone un certificated bankrupts, without 'one signature of confi dence to break their fall, rests, it would seem by this morning's Tames, in the breasts of the not too unani mous gentlemen who met yesterday (being Sunday) in the drawing-room of the Carlton, and who mean, it ap pears, to meet again to-day in that " cradle, temple, and tomb," of the great Conservative party, " built up' since 1835. In the meantime, Ministers also have been holding their councils, and it is bruited forth as their result— 'first, that they won't resign; and, secondly, that they will retract their own proposition for altering the sugar duties. Oh, most lame and impotent conclusion Wa it for this that the Premier sat biting his thumb all Ifriday evening ? Was this the only resolution his re verse could suggest to his magnanimity ? What, that high-minded statesman, who was so fond of assuming indifference to office without power, and of insinuating others to be less indifferent to it. That heaven-born Minister who, in 1841, declared " No consideration or mere political support shsuld induce ma to hold such an office as that which I fill by a servile tenure,—a tenure which would compel me to be the instrument of carrying other men's opinions into elrest"—who ex claimed, " Free as the wind, I reserve to myself the power of retiring from the discharge of onerous and harassing duties, which, under such circumstances, could no longer be discharged with satisfaction to myself or advantage to my country." Free as the wind, Sir Robert? Didn't you mean, free as the weathercock? Turning from the ludicrous aspects of this crisis which really are those which first suggest themselves— it becomes us to examine the source of these successive variances between Ministers and their friends—now re *lilting to the discredit of the latter—now again of the former—but recurring continually. Each has alternate occasion, in Eastern phra-e, to ejaculate dolefully to the other, "I am your sacrifice 1" Such an internecine war of Ministers with their party, and a party with its Atinisters—as regards character and consistency—surely was•never witnessed. The Ministerialists have now their revenge before them for the humble pie theyhad to eat on the Factory Bill. But what is the perennial source of these flowing waters of bitterness ? We have repeatedly pointed to that source in the previous over-issues of false prat nees. In the present instance, it is tolerably plain what is the source of difficulty. Ministers thought them seli es obliged to do something to relieve the market from its t tarred condition. They thought themselves obliged to tin something ; but the ground they had previously taken precluded them from doing anything large and lasting. They wished to appear to alleviate a present wart, without appearing to espouse the policy they had professed to eschew so righteously. They wished too to avail themselves of whatever weight still belongs to the Anti-Slavery party, and whatever odium that party could . aid them to visit upon their opponents. .All this temporising temporary policy was vastly re -linedj; but of too much transparency, as well as tenuity, to prosper with either party. The Liberals see that little is proposed by it—the West Indians that every thing is threatened. The former could scarcely be ex pected to vote on credit—on the credit of probable next year's measure!. The latter distinctly foresee such measures ; and act on the maxim, Principiis obsta. Thus, by seeking to trim his bark between all parties, the Minister's policy is taken aback, and s wa mp e d. STANDARD.—Yesterday the town, and especially the Clubs, were agitated by a rumour that Ministers had can Saturday resolved to resign, in consequence of the adverse division upon Mr. Miles's motion ; and it was even asserted that Sir Robert Peel had carried the resig nation of the Cabinet to her Majesty, who had accepted it, and " sent for" the Duke of Richmond. The members of Brookes's were prominently active in promulgating this (to them) joyful intelligence ; and we regret to ha ve seen members of the Carlton, zealously, and, as it seem ed, with equal pleasure, assisting the men of Brookes's in propagating the delusion. The Whigs, however, said nothing of the message to the Duke of Richmond, although they did not dare to pretend that any one of their own party had been summoned to th e P a l ace. The truth is, that the Ministers never once contemplated a resignation. The step was not, we are sure, once canvassed either at the Cabinet Council on Satur day, or at the meeting at Lord. Aberdeen's yester day. The Ministers owe much to their party, but they owe more to the Queen, to the country, and to their own character, and as long as their party permit them to carry on the Government with honour, they will persevere, to the completion of the restoration of Ireland to peace—the perfect tranquillisation and security of India—the consolidation of the peace of Europe, of which we have lately had such flattering proofs in the visits of so many sovereigns, and of which we anticipate the most gratifying proof of all in the visit of Louis Philippe, the wise and the good—the work of restoring commerce and finance. These are net duties tobe capriciously abandoned in anger at a momentary fit of petulance on the part of some of those who placed them is office ; not, it is to be presumed, for the purpose of protecting particular interests, but to promote the honour of the Queen's Govern incnt, and the happiness and prosperity of all her Ma jesty's subjects. The Conservatives who, on Friday sight, voted in the majority, are not by themselves suf ficient to displace Sir Robert Peel's Government ; but let them be so, and let them persevere in a course which renders it impossible for Sir Robert Peel to administer the affairs of the country with honour to himself, and *here is little reason to doubt that the Right Honourable Maronet will cheerfully retire to the private station, which must have so many more attractions for him, than for any other man who ever burdened himself with the toils and vexations of public life. Let these consistent Conservatives ally themselves permanently with Lord John Russell and Sir Thomas Wilde, who insist that the Irish incendiary has not been fairly tried, and must therefore turn him loose to repeat his mon ster meetings—with Sir John Hobhouse to project new Affghan wars, as brilliant as that of 1841—with Lord Palmerston to replace our foreign relations in the posi tion in which they stood in 1840—with Mr. Hume and Mr. Roebuck to remove the Church and reform the co :onies—with Mr. Baring to reverse Sir R. Peel's finan cial measures, and substitute deficit for surplus—above all with Mr. Patrick Maxwell Stewart, free-trader, who organised the disgraceful intrigue that resulted in the late division ; let, we say, the discontented Conserva tives, if they are sufficiently numerous, perpetuate their alliance with those persons and those parties whose prin ciples they represent, and they may dismiss Sir Robert Peel to that private station which he is so eminently qualified te adorn and to enjoy ; but when they shall have done so, they will have to render an account to the country for condemning it once more to a Whig- Radical Administration, and, as the inevitable conse quence, to rebellion in Ireland, disastrous war in India —war of enormous cost, whether successful or unsuc cessful—in Europe, a paralysis of commerce and a defi cient revenue, with constant, and probably fatal, assaults upon the Church. LAW INTELLIGENCE. COURT OF EXCHEQUER, June 17. (Sitting at Nisi Prius, before Baron ROLFE and a Special Jury.) TIM ATTORNEY GENERAL r. JOHN DEANE —THE CUSTONI-lIOCSE FRAUDS. (Continued from our paper of yesterday.) Several witnesses were examined oa behalf of the deren dvut, to establish the case stated by the defendant's counsel; which was in effect, that, under the denomination of " plain silk," the defendant had imported ribands of an inferior quality, made of in cartoons, which occupied the whole space contained in the three cases, and on which he had paid the full duty. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL. in reply. commented on the un satisfactory nature of the defendant's evidence, and the facility with which, if so minded, he might have called per sons who could have explained the real nature of the trans action on which the charge was founded. Baron ROLFE left it to the jury, upon a careful investiga tion of the evidence, to say whether the defendant was a party to any fraud upon the Customs in the importation which was the subject of the information. After a short consultation the jury found a verdict for the Crown, and assessed the single value of the goods imported at 2,8401., which renders the defendant liable to penalties in three times that amount. CENTRAL CRIMINAL CO URT. OLD COURT. (Before Mr. Baron UR NEY. Edward Yoangman Cotton; 27, 'w G as indict ) ed fur stealing three gold seven-shilling pieces, several sovereigns, and other articles, the property of Edwani Driver, and Henrietta Sharpe was charged with receiving a portion of the property, know ing the same to have been stolen. Air. Clarkson and Mr. Bodkin conducted the prosecution. The facts of this case having been very recently fully de tailed in the police reports, it will be unnecessary to repeat them on the present occasion. It will be recollected that the male prisoner was footman to Mr. Driver, the auctioneer and surveyor, and that at the time the robbery was committed an attempt was also made to set the house on fire. The j ur y found Cotton guilty and acqititted Sharpe. The prisoner Cotton was then indicted, with a man named Chandler, for stealing a quantity of plate, the property of his , master. Loth In this case rs the jury returned a verdi c t of giflity against prisone. The prisoner Cotton was then upon a c h arge of having feloniously set fire to the ; house of the prosecutor, but upon this indictment no e - fidence was offered, and the ju ry , therefore, returned a verdict of Not Guilty. The COurt sentenced Cotton to be transported for fourteen years upon the first Indictment and seven for the second, and Chandler was eter.teUeed to be transported fur ten years. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. (YESTERDAY.) MANSION-HOUSE. The Lord Mayor granted a summons, calling upon the commander of the steam-boats which ply bet Ween London and Blackwall, to answer the serious complaint of having overloaded the vessel on Sunday to the imminent danger of the lives of the passengers, several hundreds of whom were on board; The complainant, in answer to questions from his Lordship, said that when several gentlemen not only ex postulated against the crowding of the boat, but actually quitted it from apprehension of the consequences which they considered likely to result,those in authority on board wholly disregarded the appeal, and that'for fifty who abandoned the vessel at ene of the places at which she stopped in her pas sage .100 stuffed. themselves into her. His Lordship 'i n ti mate d , t h at h e, as conservator of the river, would attend to all complaints against th e comman d ers of ste am - vessels for any acts by which the lives of the public were endangered, and that if any awful catastrophe should th re should be nu imputation against the magistracy of London at all events. George llaeket, a young fellow, who has been frequently Mayor offending as. a smug ler brought before the Lord A M c a t y , o w r h a i n ch d itiftrici'vtra LatAe,'cwhaa'rged under a clause of the penalty. of. low_ The case was repre muted. by the Solicitor to the Customs as an aggfaVated one: The defendant Was seen by a Custom=house racer to leatie the Belfast steamer, eVidently taffy : llg something heavy about hint ; and was follovted by the officer; *lt i asked hint whether he Was In possession of anything tip°, tiiiich the duty had not been paid. The defendent replied that he had not much, which was correctly tfansdated by the former into the affirmative. Thret bottles of brandy were then flung by the defendant into the water, and he smashed a fourth bottle upon the arm of the officer, having failed in the object of breaking the man's head with it. The Custom-house officer and his assistant knew from the smell of the liquor which was spilled that it was foreign brandy, and hoped the whole penalty-would-be inflicted on account of the dangerous course pursued by the smuggler. The defendant denied that he had made any effort to in jure the officer, and said the bottle, which really contained sugar and water, had been broken in the unnecessary struggle which took place. The prisoner was stated to have, about six months ago, flung four bottles, containing, no doubt, contraband spirits, into the Thames, when pursued by the officer. lle was convicted in the penaly of 1001., and, in default of payment, was sentenced to imprisonment and hard labour for three months. CLERKENWELL. Mrs. Margaret Broughton, the wife of a surgeon, residing x I, Old North-street, Red Lion-square, was charged wit) stabbing Mrs. Jane Brockett with a knife. A surgeon's certificate was produced, stating that the pro secutris was unable to attend. Police-constable Andrews, 65 E, deposed being on duty in Old North-street. Between one and two o'clock on Sunday morning he heard cries of " Police" proceed from No. 4, and on entering the parlour of that house saw Mrs. Brockett bleed ing from a wound on the right arm ; the wound seemed to be deep, and was about an inch in length. She said the prisoner had stabbed her with a knife, and gave her in charge. Witness u n de rs tood th a t th e interference of the pro secutrix between the prisoner and her sister, who were quar relling, Was the cause of the stabbing . . The prisoner was remanded. Mr. William IVigley, of 11, Wood-street, Lambeth, a clerk in Somerset House, was charged with violently assaulting police-constables N 122 and N 428, and with tearing the dress of the former officer; also on suspicion of damaging the cell in which he was confined. On Sunday night police-constable 122 N being on duty at Higlibury, saw the prisonnr, who was under the influence of liquor, strike a gentleman who was passing by, in the face ; witness, at the instance of the gentleman (a respectable soli citor, who, however, did not appear), took the prisoner into mato ly, but had no sooner done so than the prisoner turned on him and struck him violently on the chest. He knocked witness down, and kicked him, and before assistance could arrive literally tore the uniform coat off his back. When 422 N arrived he assaulted him likewise, and in order to remove the prisoner to the station-house it was found necessary to fetter his limbs. Witness never saw any one more violent. The prisoner said he was drunk, and did not know what he was doing. Police-sergeant Allen stated that the cell in which the prisoner was placed was much broken and injured, he be lieved by the prisoner. Mr. GREENWOOD said the prisoner's station in life very much aggravated his moral guilt, and he felt it necessary to impose such a punishment as would deter persons of what ever station from acting in so disgraceful a manner. The prisoner said he had a wife and three children, that he was sorry for what lie had done, and besought the magis trate to deal leniently with him. He had been twenty years in Somerset House. Mr. GREENWOOD said, that drunkenness was an aggrava tion of his guilt. He felt it his duty to commit the prisoner to the House of Correction for seven days. Mary Jones, servant to Mr. John Norton Knatchbull, of Provender House, Newtown, Kent, son of Sir E. Knatchbull, M.P., was charged with stealing a gold watch, the property Martha of Rossiter. The prisoner and prosecutrix were fellow-servants at 1, Great Coram-street, on the 22d of April, on which day the watch was stolen. The prisoner left on the 4th of May, and soon after went to Kent, and entered Mr. Knatchbull's ser vice. Meantime the prosecutrix heard she had been attempt ing to sell the watch, and in company with police-constable 40 E, went to Provender House on Saturday last, where the prisoner was arrested, and the watch found. The prisoner fainted when apprehended. She acknowledged her guilt, and was committed for trial. LAUNCH OF HER MAJESTY'S STEAM-VESSEL PORCUPINE. The interesting event of launching the Porcupine, the first vessel built at the royal dockyard, Deptford, since its re establishment, took place yesterday afternoon, at half-past two. There a large assemblage of spectators, and a great number of ladies were launched in the vessel. She was named with the usual ceremonies, by Miss Lucy Hill, the daughter of the gallant Captain Superintendent of the dockyard, Sir John Hill, and went off the stocks in easy and graceful style amidst the prolonged cheering of the company. Imme diately after she was afloat she was warped from off the slip wherein she was built into dock, where, from the excellent accommodation provided, the ladies were enabled to walk ashore. As the construction of the Porcupine is on a novel and peculiar principle, the following, account may be interest ing to our naval readers. In appP,arance she is cleiyi and handsome for a steam-vessel, with the unsightly paddle-1) 4;le*, and presents no remarkable difference from other vesseb of her 1 0.. _ class. The frame of the vessel is on a new pla introdu ce d by Mr. 0. Lang, the master shipivright 'of Wpo ich Dock yard, similar to that on which he Is construet#l the Prince Albert, 120; and the Porcupine is the fist'ever completed on that principle of " dowling " and boltiat the timbers in separate pieces instead of one solid WO'. Her planking also is on a new plan—a modification of the diagonal plank ing of boats (brought forward some years since at Devon port by Mr. Johns, late foreman of that yard) by Mr. 0. Lang, Jun., the acting master shipwright of Deptford Dock yard, under whose superintendence the Porcupine has been built. Instead of the old plan of fore-and-aft planking, with a single three-inch thickness, she has three one-inch planks, two of which are diagonal, clossing each other at:right angles, and the third or outside one is longitudinal. She has been exactly six months building. The following are her princi pal dimensions : ft. in. Length between perpendiculars ..... l4l 0 Ditto of keel for tonnage 124 7i Breadth, extreme ••• Ditto, for tonnage Moulded 23 6 Depth in hold l3 6 Burden in tons, old measurement 382 40-94 Ditto ditto, new ditto 293 In launching she did not break a quarter of an inch, and her light draft of water was afore 4ft. 1 lin., abaft sft. llin. She was originally intended as an armed sloop, for service on the coast of Africa; but subsequently it was ordered that Captain Bullock (who very . much liked her appearance) should have her as a surveying vessel for the Thames, in which operation he is now engaged in the borrowed mail steam-packet Myrtle, from the Dover station. She will be coppered and sent to Woolwich, where it is expected she will be fitted in about six weeks. She is to have the engines which were taken out of the Black Eagle steam-yacht, of 130 horse power, with new tubular boilers. The Spitfire, steam-vessel, is ordered to be laid down im mediately on the slip whence the Porcupine was launched, and is to be 50 tons larger than the latter. The Spitfire and the Terrible steam-frigate, the largest in the service, build ing on the adjoining slip, are both to be launched before the commencement of the next financial year, April 1, 1845. Deptford Dockyard has much improved In appearance since its re-commission on the Ist of April last. We under stand, among other improvements, it is in contemplation to build a new roof over the large slip whence the Queen Char lotte was launched, and a new mould loft, to replace the old sheds with new ones, to repair the two slips, in such ilapi dated condition, and to convert the small dock into a slip. LLOYD'S SHIPPING. NOTICE TO MARINERS. ENLARGEMENT OF THE HARBOUR OF GREENAAE, JUTLAND, DENMARK. By a letter received at Lloyd's from Oreenaae, it appears that the harbour of this port, which hitherto has had only six feet water in it, and which with certain sandbanks has prevented large ships entering, will, by the consent of the Government, be considerably improved by the formation of a commodious basin, which will admit all vessels under a draught of 10 feet, and give shelter to about 40 vessels. HARBOURS OF REFUGE ON THE COAST. It has been suggested to Lloyd's, that if the Spatwav, or passage between the I3uxey and Gunfleet Sands was better known, and such measures as are necessary for that purpose. such as the laying down buoys, &c., and a leading mark through and into the river Coine, the shipping interest would be greatly benefited, as although that harbour is but little known to seamen generally, it is capable of holding 500 sail. ---------- MEETING OF .CONSERVATIVE MEMBERS.—A very numerous meeting of the Conservative Members of the House of Commons, was held in the drawing-room of the Carlton Club this morning. Before twelve o'clock up wards of 200 Members had assembled, and many others entered the room afterwards. We understand that at this important meeting a resolution o f ent i re confidence in Sir Robert Peel's Government was proposed and carried unanimously. The resolution was forwarded to the night lion. Baronet in Whitehall-gardens, previous to the as sembling of the Cabinet Counoil.—Evening Paper. THE, CITY OF LONDON WELLINGTON STATUE.—In consequence of adverse winds, the pedestal for the eques trian statue of . the Duke of Wellington, to be erected in front of the Royal Exchange, did not arrive until Sun day night from Scotland. Mr. M 4 Donald, the con tractor for the pedestal, waited upon Sir Peter Laurie yesterday at the Mansion House, to inform him th a t t h e statue would be fi xed complet e ly on this day, the anni versary of the battle of Waterloo. DESTRUCTIVE FtnE.—A short time before five o'clock yesterday morning, a fire of a most alarming charac ter broke out in the extensive range of premises belonging to Messrs. Craven and Lucas, sugar refiners, Red Lion-street, Whitechapel. The private watchman first perclived flames issuing from that part of the building denominated the " pa tent house," in the immediate locality of the flue of the fur nace. An alarm was immediately raised, and information of the circumstance transmitted, with all possible dispatch, to the Jeffery -square, 1 :;ellelose-square, and Watling-street stations of the ;ire-engine establishment, engines from which place° as well as from the West of England office, in the aterloo-road, were quickly in attendance. Water having been obtained from the mains of the East London water works, and the engines being brought into full play, a power ful stream was pumped upon the blazing materials, which from their peculiarly ignitable character burned so furiously, that by a quarter past five o'clock it was apprehended the whole of the premises would be consumed. Beside the build ing on fire, a double house occupied by Messrs. Craven and Lucas also caught fire, but happily the flames were arrested before they obtained firm hold of it. The lower floors of the patent house were most seriously damaged, the upper floors destroyed, and the roof burned off. The stock in the upper part of the building was reduced to ashes, and considerable injury was done to the whole establishment. Without a question, the " stop" effected by the united efforts of the firemen in this case was never excelled; and consequently property upon the contiguous premises and in the neighbour hood to an immense amount is preserved. Mr. Braidwood reports the tire to have originated in the flue of the furnace, the soot accumulated there having ignited, and thus set fire to the building. The loss in the case of the manufactory will fall upon the offices of the Sun and the Phcenix ; the contents of the dwelling-hous e are covered by policies of in surance in the Alliance, Imperial, Phcenix, and Sun fire offices. - ----- THE TEMPLE.—On Wednesday a special call to the bar was made by the Honourable Society of the Middle Temple, in the person of Mr. Titus Hibbert Ware, the eldest son of Samuel Ware, of Edinburgh, Esq. The peculi ar cha racteristic of a " special call" is in the fact of its b e i ng made only under particular circumstances, and upon petition to the bench, which petition is brought before and decided upon by the benchers when in " parliament" assembled for the trans action of the affairs of their corporate body. THE POLKA.—The police of Paris have received strict orders to prohibit the Polka in all the public places where it was danced, not corrected, but with additions, which made it doubly reprehensible. " The Polka," says the Ga.. zeta de France, " has lived its day." IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. of the Corrimissidnets ot Woods and Forests. There *as Ito, interition of the Cottimigsioner§ of .Woods and Forests of building houses within the park.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") There was a strip of land belonging to Greenwich Hospital ad joining the park, and in order to render that ground more available, it had been agreed to give up a piece within the park, but the park would remain exactly of the same extent. In company with one of the officers of the Hospital he had gone over the proposed alterations, and, not approving of the plan, had sent it back for alteration.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HAWES—Am I to understand there is no foundation for the report about building in the park ? The Earl of LINCOLN—No foundation what ever.—(Hear, hear.) Sir W. CLAY presented a petition from certain Wesleyan deputies against the Dissenters' Chapels Bills ; and other petitions from the Tower Hamlets to the same effect. COUNTY RATES BILL. SOUSE Off' 4,,aubs ; ittite if. 'Pheir Louisliipls asserrlblei at Five o'clock. OPENING LEITERS AT THE POST-OFFICE. The Earl of RADNOR, adverting to the petitions which were presented a few evenings ago in the House of Commons, complaining that the parties who had signed those petitions had had their letters opened at the Post-office, expressed his surprise at this power having been so recently exercised, and contended that no ground existed for such a stretch of authority. He was inclined to say that such a power ought not to exist; but if it did exist, he thought it ought to he exercised under responsibility. He should take that opportunity of moving for a return of the num•• ber of letters which had been opened at the Post-office since January, 1844. He would also take that oppor tunity of asking for some explanation as to the arrest 3f the Count Ostrowski, who bad been forcibly taken From his lodgings on a vague charge being made 'Against him. He (the Earl of Radnor) contended that this arrest had been made contrary to law, and if this gentleman had killed one of the parties who came into his room he would have been perfectly exculpated in law. The Duke of WELLINGTON said that if the Noble Lord had looked into the statute-book, he would have found that the power of opening letters by the Secretary of State had been exercised since the reign of Queen Anne ; and the warrant which was necessary at the present time, was precisely in the same form as that which was required in the time of Queen Anne. If it should appear that the Secretary of State had abused this power, that would be ground for inquiry, but in the present instance there was nothing of the sort, and, therefore, there was no ground for the Noble Lord's motion. With respect to the other matter alluded to by the Noble Lord, to slay the least of it the person alluded to had acted in a most indiscreet manner, and if there had been any thing improper in his arrest he had his remedy. It was a subject for the consideration of a court of law, and not for that House. Lord CAMPBELL thought the question of open ing letters under a warrant from the Secretary of State was a question requiring the earnest considera tion of their Lordships.—(Hear, hear.) He con tended that the words of the Act of Parliament, which gave the Secretary of State this power, provided that for every letter opened there should be a separate warrant isued by the Secretary of State under his hand and seal. The order of the day for the further proceeding with the County Rates Bill was read in order to be postponed. STATE TRIALS (IRELAND). Mr. WYSE said that he was compelled to defer the motion of which he had given notice to-morrow night on the subject of the State trials in Ireland, in consequence of the delay which had taken place in laying before the House the papers which he had moved for; he, therefore, gave notice that he should bring it for ward on the first supply night, as an amendment to the motion that the House do resolve itself into a Committee of Supply. He begged to move that the petition which he had that night presented be printed with the Votes. —Agreed to. DISSENTERS' CHAPELS BILL. Mr. F. SHAW gave notice that he should more an amendment to the second clause of the Dissenters' Chapels Bill. METROPOLITAN BUILDINGS BILL. Mr. MACKINNON wished to ask the Noble Lord when he intended to bring forward the Metro politan Buildings Bill? Lord LINCOLN would bring it forward the first opportunity. POOR LAWS. Mr. HOGG presented two petitions against the new poor-laws. SUGAR DUTIES. Sir ROBERT PEEL, in rising to move the order of the day for going into Committee on the Sugar Duties, said—Sir, it is probable that the House will expect from me some statement of the course which her Majesty's Government propose to pursue under the circumstances in which they are placed by the vote of Friday night upon the sugar duties ; and assuming that a statement will be in general conformity with the wishes and feelings of the House, I am prepared to make it, if the House will allow me to make it, when the House shall have resolved itself into a Committee, and Mr. Greene shall be in the chair. Before we pro ceed any further with the resolution, I will then take the opportunity o f s t a ti ng t o th e louse the course which her Malesty's Government propose to pursue. Lord J. RUSSELL said he thought there could be no objection to that course. The House then went into Committee. Sir R. PEEL then rose and said—Sir, I propose now, with the permission of the Committee, to put it in possession of the views her Majesty's Government entertain with respect to the effect of the decision of Friday evening on the subject of the sugar duties, and the course which it is their intention to pursue as a preliminary to their intention. The Com mittee will permit me, perhaps, to refer, in the first place, to the course the Government have pursued in the present year with respect to the finan cial policy of the country, and the motives which have induced them to take the course they have pur sued, and particularly the views they entertain upon those particular duties which were imposed on foreign and colonial sugar. The opinions we entertain on the subject of the sugar duties are those we have entertained and continued in for r several years past views we expressed when oppo nents of her Majesty's Government, and which we have entertained since we have been entrusted with power, and which we still at the present time entertain, and intend to act upon. We are of opi nion that the ordinary considerations which deter mine matters of financial and commercial policy do not apply to the article of sugar. We find that this country had adopted, with respect to the slave-trade, a particular course of action, from which it may be inferred that it considers the continuance of the slave-trade as one of the greatest evils and curses by which humanity can be surrounded. This country has entered into treaties with foreign Powers, engaging them to co operate for the putting down of the slave-trade. Un der ordinary circumstances we are willing to admit that the regulation of the affairs of every country is within the province and exclusive jurisdiction of each independent State, but we have engaged other powers to co-operate with us by treaties for the suppression of the slave trade, the chief onus of attempting to suppress which has fallen on this country. We have thought ourselves justified with regard to the general interests of the world to do the best in our power for the extinction of slavery in our dominions, and we have thought ourselves justified upon considerations wholly apart from interested motives, but as the promoters of humanity, to call upon this country to make greater sacrifices for the suppression of the slave trade, than any other country in the world. This country had voted 20,000,0001. of money, and up to the present hour great expenditures were going on in Africa and other parts of the world, not in the dominions of this country, but at its expense, for the suppression of slavery. In the course of the last session we passed an Act enforcing additional penalties countries where the slave trade was carried on. agai nstthat A t c h t e British capital in House eonconfoe f rred very considerable powers upon the Executive to visit with heavy penal ties all persons subject to the control of the British th a e " H li o c u a Crown, who might use their capital for the purpose of giving encouragement to the slave trade. We have, indeed, for years, by the whole tenor of our policy, given conclusive proof of our intention of go verning by different principles that branch of our trade in which slave labour is by other countries employed to those which generally prevail over and guide the general commerce of this country. When, in opposition, we supported those who were then in power—l refer to the year 1839—in resist ing a proposal which was made by the Honourable Member for Dumfries, the effect of which would havo been to reduce the protective duties, upon foreign sugar, as compared with British colonial sugar, .to an amount of twelve shillings. That pro posal was resisted by the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J, Russell) and his colleagues, upon grounds on which he will do me the justice to say I have never mentioned with anything approach ing to a taunt—which I have never considered as imposing any impediment to a reconsideration of the sugar duties, and which I have never referred to excepting for this purpose—to show that a very high and respected authority did entertain the opinions I have now expressed, that, upon the sugar question, Parliament should be guided by different principles than those which generally governed it in dealing with the other great commercial questions. When the Right Hon. Gentleman, I refer to (Mr. Labouchere) was met with the argument as to cotton and coffee, his reply was that he was not prepared to say that the course of legislation he suggested was consistent with the broad principle which usually governed our commercial transactions, that it should be borne in mind that the ten articles referred to did not come into competition with the free labour of our own colonies—and that it would Lord BROUGHAM thought this was a matter well worthy of the consideration of Parliament, but he expressed his regret that the subject had been intro duced without notice. Re said it was impossible to Carry out the object of the provision in the Act of Parliament for the issuing of a warrant for the open ing of such letter, inasmuch as to be enabled to do so the Secretary of State would have to be acquainted with all letters the person whose letters were to be examined was about to be receive. Lord DENMAN regretted that the return of the Noble Earl was resisted, as this was a subject that ought to be fully inquired into. It was a subject of great importance, and was not at all connected with party considerations, and he believed that the only object of this motion was to obtain information. If this motion were rejected, he trusted that the Noble Earl would give notice, and bring the subject Forward at a future day, with a view to the considera tion of the clause in the Act which gave the Secretary 0 State the power of opening letters, for, in his (Lord Denman's) opinion, such a power ought not to be in existence one hour.—(Hear, hear.) Lord BROUGHAM and Lord CAMPBELL briefly ex plained. The Marquis of NORMANBY said that it was only in cases where danger was apprehended to the State that this power of opening letters by the Secre tary of State was exercised. He did not think that et present there was any ground shown for the production of the returns which had been moved for. tie believed that the Secretary of State would be very glad to,have this power removed out of his hands, for it was a very unthankful arid unpleasant power to hold. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said that the letters which had been opened were the letters of a foreigner, and 'he understood that they had been opened at the suggestion of the Sardinian Minister in this country. if this were the case, he thought it Was an interference which ought not to be tolerated. He thought they ought to know precisely what the law upon this subject is. The Duke of WELLINGTON said there was no ►round whatever for the rumour which the Noble Marquis had adverted to. The motion-was then negatived without a division. PRESBYTERIAN MARRIAGES. The LORD CHANCELLOR laid on the table a Bill on the subject of Presbyterian marriages. LIBEL BILL. Lord CAMPBELL postponed the second reading of the Libel Bill till to-morrow (this clay). POOR-LAW (IRELAND). The Marquis of CLANRICARDE postponed his motion for calling the attention of their Lordships to the subject of Mr. Penethorn's report on workhouses in Ireland, till Thursday. The Duke of WELLINGTON said that Mr. Penethorn's report had been referred to a Committee of the other House of Parliament in consequence of some letters having been received, contradicting por tions of the report ; and when the Committee had concluded its labours, the Government would be pre pared to take some steps upon it. SURCHARGES UNDER THE COURSING ACT. The Duke of RICHMOND moved for the num ber of surcharge's which had taken place under the Coursing Act.—Ordered. DISSENTERS' CHAPELS BILL. The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL presented peti tions against this Bill. Lord LURGAN presented a petition in favour of giving power to the Poor-law Guardians in Ireland to apprentice children who had been brought up in workhouses. DEBTOR AND CREDITOR BILL. This Bill went through Committee, and was or tiered to be read a third time on Friday. INSOLVENT DEBTORS' BILL. Lord BROUGFIAM moved the second reading of this Bill, and proposed to take the discussion on the next stage. The Bill was read a second time. PARISH CLERKS' REGULATION BILL. This Bill passed through Committee. The House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 17. The SPEAKEIt took the chair at a few minutes to Four o'clock. DISSENTERS' CHAPELS BILL. Petitions against this Mil were presented by Mr. B. Smith, from Norwich; Mr.Duncan,from Dundee; Mr. Chute, from King's Lynn; Lord J. Stuart, and Mr._H. Berkley from Bristol. _ Mr. B. SMITH presented a petition from the printsellers of Norwich, praying for protection against art-unions. Mr. HA.MILTON presented a petition from Ireland against the national system of education in Ireland. Sir E. FILMER presented a petition from Kent praying for protection to agriculture. Mr. G. KNIGHT presented a petition from 1,800 inhabitants of Port Phillip, New South IVales, com plainifw of the Governor. General having removed a judge from the bench, and praying for inquiry into the circumstances. Mr. C. ROUND presented a petition from Suffolk, against the Bank Charter Bill. - Mr. YORKE presented a petition from Essex, praying the House to take steps to arrest the progress of mcendiarism in that county. " Lord ELIOT presented a petition from Cornwall, praying that the owners and not the occupiers, of small tenements may be rated to the poor. KILMARNOCK ELECTION. The SPEAKER informed the House that he had received a letter from the agents on the petition against the return of the Kilmarnock burghs, stating that it was not their intention to proceed with the petition.—(Hear, hear.) THE STATE TRIALS. not then do to interfere with the success of the great experiment then in operation, by opening the flood gates to a supply of - foreign sugar which might inundate the British markets, and materially interfere with the prospect of success to the great cause of emancipation of the slaves. We considered these views to be well founded, and we acted upon them when opposed to the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite. These views appear to have received the sanction of a very high authority—of a gentleman, whose name I have never mentioned in this House, without accompanying it with my expressions of respect for his authority—l mean the late Mr. Deacon Hume.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. Hume, the advocate of the complete removal of all restrictions—the decided opponent of the protec tive system—the authority who, of all others, had ex pressed his positive opinion in favour of unrestricted commerce, and of the abolition of all protection—Mr. Hume had excepted articles the produce of slavery and the slave trade, as not coming properly: under the consideration of our commercial legislation. " It is now thirty years ago," said Mr. Hume, that you abolished the slave trade—you have now abolished slavery. I canno t therefore believe that any question of free trade can arise between Jamaica and Cuba. Cuba has not only an abundant and fruitful soil, it has not only the advantage, if it can be called an advantage, of slavery, but it is notorious that from 40,000 to 50,000 slaves are imported into that island every year. It is, therefore, impossible that the question of trade between Cuba and the British plantations can ever come in the category of free trade." Such were the opinions of Mr. Deacon Hume in 1840, and I think that it would be unjust to expose the British planter, who has neither the advantage of slavery or the slave trade, to the competition of Brazil and Cuba— countries possessin g a v i r gin soil more fitted by nature for the p ro d uc ti on o f sug ar than any other country. I do n o t thi n k th a t' it would be proper to expose the. British planter to the competition of those countries. We have had most convincing proofs that hitheito all our efforts for the suppression of the slave trade to Cuba and the Brazils have proved inef fectual. The public mind in those countries is not awakened to the frightful 'horrors of that traffic and although the competition with Manilla and Mr. WYSE presented a petition from Pieree Ma honey and others, the solicitors to the traversers ,in the late Statetrials, complaining of the course pur sued at the late State trials in Dublin, and praying the House to institute some legal inquiry into the system that had been adopted in empannelling the jury. The petitioners also expressed a hope that that Housa would be found the guardian of trial by jury. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. HARDY presented petitions against the Dis senters' Chapels Bill. Lord ASHLEY presented several petitions to the same effect. Mr. LIDDELL presented a petition from Durham, signed by 4,000 persons, praying . the House to con tinue protection to agriculture. Mr. WAK LEY presented a petition from the stage coach and carriage proprietors of the metro polis, complaining of the monopoly of railways. Mr. HAWES presented petitions against the Dis senters' Chapels Bill. GREENWICH PARK. Mr. HAWES said he had a petition to present from certain inhabitants of Greenwich, complaining that there was an intention on the part of the Govern ment to make an encroachment upon Greenwich Park, and to bUild private residences therein. Seeing the' Noble Lord, the Chief Commissioner of Woods and Forests, in his place, he trusted he might waive cere mony upon the occasion, and take the liberty of ask ing him if such intention did exist ? ' The Earl of LINCOLN was quite willing to ac cede to the wish of the Hon. Member, and had great pleasure in assuring him,that, the. anxiety of .the petit tioners was not justified by any application or conduct should not be delayed past the 10th of Novem ber. We thought that if, at this period of the year, there was an increased demand for sugar, and there should be a deficient sup ply—we thought if prices should rise, in con sequence of increased demand, the West Indian' interests could not be benefited by any such rise- in price; and we thought, therefore, that it NVOUltl i be better for the interests of all parties to take security against such an event as that of a scarcity of sugar TIIE SUN, LONDON, TrESDAY ETENING, JUNI 18 , ig44, China, where sugar is raised by free labour, might be a fair toMpetition i , yet to expose him to a competition with Braiii end Cuba, would be most unjust to the British planter. It *as but very recently that the House of Commons came, to an unanimous decision, declaring that expense was to be a subordinate consideration to the suppres • sion of the slave trade. We are of opinion that the opening of the British market to sugar the produce of Cuba and Brazil would give an increased encourage ment to the slave trade, as carried on between those countries and the coast of Africa. We therefore en tertain an opinion that, after the decision of the House of Commons, it would be inconsistent to give that en couragement. lam not insensible to the arguments —at least, I attach their due weight to them—which attempt to show that the opening of the markets of England to sugar, the produce of free labour, -would indirectly give encouragement to sugar, the produce of slave labour, in Cuba and Brazil. But I cannot help entertaining the conviction that the encourage ment of free-labour sugar will ultimately tend to prove that free-labour sugar can compete favourably with that grown by slaves, and thus, indirectly, if not directly, it will act against slavery. These are the general grounds upon which we still entertain the opinion that, although it may be said with referenle to the West Indian interests, to admit a limited and qualified competition with free-labour sugar, yet we think it dangerous to admit, as my Hon. Friend proposes, this sugar at a differential duty of 10s. We think that admission would be inconsistent with the. course this country had taken, and the declarations the House had made on the subject 01 the slave trade. With these opinions the question upon which we had to decide at the commencement of the present year was this— what course shall we pursue with respect to the admission of free-labour sugar ? Now, of course, Sir, I do not mean to ask any gen tleman to give up the opinions which he has formed as to the policy of pursuing a different course. I only assumed that our opinions were correct, and on that assumption it is I argued that there ought to be a discriminating or distinctive amount of duty. I aslc, Sir, what course consistent with that opi nion, and with the admission of foreign sugar, can we pursue ? As bearing on this question an important event will shortly occur. On the 10th of Nov., 1844, the existing treaty with Brazil will cease. Previous to that day it would be most diffi cult for that Government to do away with the discri minating duties. Entertaining the opinions which I have avowed, I have thought it right to adopt a dif ferent course, for Brazil is entitled to have her pro duce admitted into her Majesty's dominions on the footing of the most favoured nations ' • nor could the title of Brazil to that equality be affected by, any alteration in our relations with other countries; she has a clear right that her produce shall be in. troduced on the same footing as that of Java, Ma nilla, and Siam, but on the 10th of November that state of thing's will cease. Therefore, at the com mencement of the year, in considering what course it was our duty to pursue, we came to the conclusion, that the alteration which we have proposed was the only one which we could adopt. It had been said that instead of post poning the consideration of the great questions which must be considered before the expiration of the treaty, we should have declared our general financial and commercial policy in the present session, and that we should have declared our intentions as to the renewal or continuance of the income-tax, and the reduction of the duties on the importation of foreign produce, but we thought that before we asked the House to take into consideration the important question of the renewal and continuance of the in come-tax, we should be possessed of the fullest ex perience as to the effects of those alterations in the Customs' duties, which took place in 1842, at the time the income-tax was proposed. Many of those were not to have effect till a recent period, and before the question for the renewal of the income •tax it would; be advantageous that the House should know what had been the result - of those reductions of the Customs' duties. In the case of the important alteration of the timber duties, the total amount of reduction did not take place till October last. There was, therefore, but a limited period in • which to determine the effect of the reduction on timber. There have been also for months past de cisive indications of increased' demand for in dustry ; of greater employment amongst the manufacturing and working classes gene rally ; indications, I think, that cannot be ques tioned, of returning prosperity as far as trade and manufactures are concerned. I expressed an earnest Wish to the House that those indications of returning prosperity might be significant of their permanence ; but at the same time, we have on 'former occa sions been deceived by appearances of prosperity, so that they cannot be perfectly relied on. That constituted a decisive reason why, before we took a revision of the whole commercial policy of the country, with a view of abandoning the income tax, or whatever else we might think advisable, we thought it advantageous that time should elapse to decide upon the effect of the measures we have passed. Another and more conclusive reason for postponing till next year the consideration of the tariff was, that we had every reason to believe that in the present session we should call the attention of the House to two other great financial questions, which would probably press for immediate consideration. The one was a reduction of the interest on Three-and-a-Half per C.!ent. Stock, by far the greatest operation effected in modern times, the failure of which would be to every interest the most unfortunate. The other was a pro position of great importance, which I, as the organ of the Government, submitted to the House—the renewal of the Bank Charter, the regulation of joint-stock banks, and the regulation of the paper circulation. At the commencement of the session we foresaw that there was every prospect that both of these must undergo alteration, and we thought it was not desirable, seeing also the mass of legislation which was left undisposed of in the course of last session, and which was presse I forward in the present, that it was necessary to impose a re duction on the 3i per Cent. stock, and that it was also necessary to propose a measure for the regulation of the Bank Charter, to call the attention of the House to other measures of great commercial importance, and the question of the renewal of the income-tax. There was a third reason alp for postponing the mea sure, which to our minds was- conclusive. How were we to deal with this question of the admission of foreign sugar ? To propose the continuance of the income-tax, and to make.no proposal on the subject of sugar, would probably not have conciliated the support of the. House of Commons. It would, I think, have been expected that on pro posing the renewal of the income-tax, some proposal by her Majesty's Government, in respect to the sugar duties, must be made. I doubt whether the House of Commons would not almost have considered a pro posal with respect to the sugar duties a necessary condition of the renewal of the income-tax. It was impossible for us, pending the treaty with Brazil, to make that proposal. Supposing, in the month of March, we had brought on the questions of the in come-tax and the sugar duties, and had not, at the same time, proposed any considerable reduction of the duties on sugar, Brazil would have been enti tled, until the month of November, 1844, to share in all the advantages of the renewal, and would have made a plausible claim to admit her sugar into the market of this country, with the advantage of whatever reduction might have been made. Now, from the combined operation of those three reasons, I think any gentleman who permits me to assume that we are right in making a distinction between free-labour sugar and slave-labour sugar, will admit that we had no alter native but to postpone the consideration of any very extensive measure in respect to the sugar duties until our discretion was unfettered, so far as Brazil was concerned, by the termination of the treaty. We therefore did resolve deliberately not to ask the House to pronounce an opinion in the course of this session, in respect to the continuance of the sugar duties. At the same time, we felt it to be our duty to make a preposition to the House upon the subject of the sugar duties. We saw indications of a rise in price. The price of sugar at the commencement of the spring was about 2s. higher than the average of the last two years. There were, then, reasons to apprehend that there might be a deficient supply. In the month of November, 1844, the period would arrive when we should be at liberty to deal with the ques tion of free-labour sugar. The only monopoly that remains, almost, is that of sugar.—(Suppressed laughter, and cries of-" Corn, corn.") Ido not wish to provoke a discussion. I wish studiously to avoid saying anything which is capable of contradiction in the way of argument, and, still more, anything which can provoke angry feeling.—(Hear.) But, certainly, of the great articles of consumption in this country, the only one with respect to which there is almost unqualified monopoly, is the article of sugar. On the article of foreign sugar there is a duty of three guineas, which operates as an exclusion. We thought, therefore, it was our duty to avail ourselves of the earliest opportunity of proposing a measure which, without being detrimental to the interests of Brazil, might be of advantage to the community at large, without- injury to the revenue, and which would have the effect of breaking down monopoly, by admitting sugar, the produce of free- labour, at a duty something above that on which colonial sugar was in troduced, and we thought that such a measure by admitting sugar the produce of free labour at the duty we proposed. We had another reason fctr dealing with this question in the present session. W e w ished the producers of free-labour sugar to know what the intention of Parliament were—whether it intended to confine the competition With Colonial to free-la bour sugar, or between colonial sugar and that pro duced by slave labour. It was also our anxious wish to take security against increased prices. Notwithstanding the discussion that has taken place we adhered to the opinions we have hitherto expressed, believing that the measure we proposed will not be injurious to the revenue, will be advantageous to the consumer, and likely to be productive of the best into • rests of the West Indian proprietors themselves. On submitting, however, to the consideration of the House, the measure on sugar duties determined upon by the Government, the Noble Lord opposite (Lord John Russell) assuming our distinctive sums as between colonial sugar and foreign sugar not the produce of slave labour, proposed that the duty of 345. should be applied indiscriminately, without reference to the source whence the sugar might come. The Noble Lord took a division upon that proposition, and our measure was affirmed by a considerable majority. At a subsequent state of the proceedings we were met by a counter proposition on the part of the West India party. It was proposed by an Honourable Friend of mine, the Member for Bristol (Mr. Miles), that there should be a departure from the scheme of the Go vernment—that instead of the relative amount of duties being as we proposed, namely, 245. and 345., it should be 20s. and 305.; and that with respect to a certain clayed sugar, there should be a discriminating duty to the• extent of 4s. We had proposed that the discriminating duty should upon all sugars be 103. ; he proposed a protection to the amount of 14s.—(Hear, hear.) Her Majesty's Government have considered the proposal of my Hon. Friend—acting, I shall say, not under the influence of temper caused by being in a minority—but upon a careful and dispassionate view of the whole subject— they have considered it one to which they cannot give in their adhesion.—(Expressions of surprise.) That proposal of my Hon. Friend—supported accord ing to some understanding by—(Cries of " No," " no," and expressions of surprise)—l don't say Hon. Members were under any obligation to vote—(Hear, bear)—but I certainly was given to understand that khat proposal of my Hon. Friend (Mr. Miles) was to receive the support of the other side of the House. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman is under no such obligation; he expressed his opposition. I do not say that on the other side there is any general obliga tion to support the proposition of my Hon. Friend— (Hear, hear)—hut I say that many Hon. Gentlemen opposite preferred supporting the motion of my Hon. Friend to supporting the proposition of her Ma jesty's Government.—(Hear, hear.)- I do not say that there was any general disposition on the part of all Hon. Gentlemen opposite, but certainly there was a disposition on the part of many to support that naotion.—(Hear, hear.) Her Majesty's Government, after a serious consideration of the subject, notwith standing that vote, have not changed their former opinion, and are not prepared to adopt the motion of my Hon. Friend. We are not prepared to acquiesce in that motion ; I for, on additional and more mature consideration of that proposition, we think that our original proposition is preferable to it. —(Hear, hear.) My Hon. Friend proposes that after the .20th of November next a prospective reduction of the duty shall take place. I think the proposition for the reduction of the duty to take place at a distant day is most objectionable. rThe consumer will derive no advantage whatever from it, and the West India interests will not be benefited by the increase of price. The period between this and the 10th of November is a most critical time in the sugar •trade, on account of the increased demand for sugar for the preservation of fruit. This will, I think, give rise to an in creased price, on account of the unwillingness of the retailers to take out a supply of that article at the present duty, when they know that in the month of November a reduction will take place. Ido not think that the West Indian interests will be benefited by it, because the retailers of sugar will refuse to increase the supply so as to meet the demands of the public. The only effect pro duced by the proposition of my Hon. Friend would ,be to increase the profits of the growers, and • retail dealers of sugar, who had stock on hand. I wish shortly to draw the attention of the House to what took place in 1842, when we pro posed a reduction in the timber duties. We were induced, in consequence of the representa tions of the parties interested, to forego our first proposition, which was for an immediate reduction of those duties; and, in order to give the holders time to dispose of their stocks on hand, to postpone the reduction until October, 1843, when it was certainly known that there would be a great reduction -in the duties on timber. The measure of reduction was to receive completion, and the per manent duty to take effect on that day, the sth of October, 1843. I have compared the effect of this change in the timber duty, on the demand, and on the public revenue. I have compared the amount of duty received in the quarter ending the sth of January, 1842, with the corresponding quarter, between the 10th of 'October, 184 . 3, and the sth of January, 1844. I omit the quarter of 1842, because the duties were then in a state of change, and I considered the fairest period with which to make a comparison was the quarters of 1841 and 1843. In the quarter ending the 10th of October, 1841, the total amount of timber duty received by the Exchequer was 646,0001. For the following quarter the total amount of duty was 292,000/. The proportion, therefore, between the timber duties received in the two quarters was as 100 to 45. But in the quarter ending the sth of January, 1844, the duty being then settled, the amount re ceived was 268,0001. as compared with 158,0001. The reduction in the timber duty made by the tariff was about one-sixth. My opinion is, though I am willing to admit that the stocks of timber are larger than the stocks of sugar, that it is highly probably the same results will follow; that there will be a depression in the sugar duties in the five months elapsing before November 10th ; that there will be an increase in the price, which will go into the pockets, not of the West India interests, but of the retailers ; that there will be an increased price to the consumer, and a loss to the revenue, with no advantage to any interest except the retailer, who has no claim on their protection. He thought, therefore, that the proposition of his Hon. Friend for the reduction of the duty, to take place upon a stated day, would be most unwise. We ourselves are accused of having encouraged ex pectation, that there should be a further consideration' of those duties, and that there might be a further reduction contingent upon the result of the income tax, and its renewal or discontinuance. But that vague expectation is very different from a fixed assurance that a certain reduction shall take place and shall be effected on a particular day. If there be any inconvenience arising from holding out such vague expectations, her Majesty's present Government alone have incurred the blame. The late Chancellor of the Exchequer has before now held out expectations of an alteration in the sugar duties contin - gent upon circumstances. When he brought forward his proposition in 1841 for an alteration in them, he said that the West India interest had no right to complain that they were taken by surprise, because Lord Sy denham had informed them, in 1839, that they must prepare themselves for a c hange in the sugar duties, and that that change would take place in 1842, or possibly earlier. So that the late Government cannot be said to have given the word with] the blow— (Laughter)—but they told the West Indians to pre pare for the blow. But we have not said anything more than what was known to every one. We said that the income-tax would expire next year, and that when the time for its expiration arrived the consideration of its discontinuance or renewal must be combined with the consideration of these and other im port duties. Surely that explanation and avowal could not have the same effect as the particular an nouncement that the reduction is to take place upon a stated day. Sir, on another ground the Government cannot assent to the proposition of my Hon. Friend. They cannot acquiesce in the proposition that there should be a discriminating duty of 14s. on certain sugars.—(Hear, hear.) I will not now enter into the question whether a classification of sugar, according to certain processes of manufacture, or according to certain qualities, be desirable or not ; all I contend for is -this, that if a classification be desirable, it ought to be universally applied.--(Hear, hear) and that to do justice to the consumer, if yon classify sugar the produce of foreign countries, you ought to classify sugar the produce of your own colonies. — (Hear, hear.) lam of that opinion, because there is as great a variation in the quality of sugar the produce of your own colonies as there is in the quality of sugar the produce of foreign countries. There is as much injustice in subjecting the coarse descriptions of brown sugar coming into competition with sugar of the highest quality, such being the produce of your own colonies, to an equal rate of duty —there is as much injustice in that arrangement as there is in subjecting your own sugar to compete, at a corresponding rate of duty, with sugar the produce of foreign countries, and in subjecting the inferior classes of your own sugar to competition with the inferior classes of foreign sugar, as the superior class of sugar the produce of your own colonies, with the superior class of sugar the produce of foreign countries. But I cannot admit the justice of taking a classification of foreign sugar until you are prepared to make it in the case of your _ own sugar; _ and therefore, Sir, if we ever come to that part of the proposition of my Hon. Friend, her Majesty's Go veymisent will 'still retain their original opinion,. and they cannot consent to ask for an escape from their present diffictilties by undertaking to give an in- creased protection to West India sugar.—(oot cheers.) No.vv my opinion on the sugar nuest. and the effect of duty on sugar, little. 1t can only be formed from general rem a de; as to the effect of prospective duties on the sugarli oft it can only be a speculation by me foun d s l i ca : experience with regard to other duties ; but receissed by the post of this morning, froai practical atithority, strong confirmation of the 'T eo which I have expressed in this respect, that w an d is danger in a prospective reduction of the datP, in g that there is no sufficient ground for a discrimiaseeol duty in favour of white clayed sugar, the Pre dtl e i se a is worth our colonies. The gentleman from whom I r ec t or n this letter states that he has been engaged i n theie.op trade for 20 years, that he turned over near a lae the money per annum, and was most desirous to se ios ial 'duty on foreign sugar, and more particularly o n c° de sugar, reduced as much as possible; but he was i g io ts certain if Mr. Miles's proposition was carried all effect as it stood, it would be most disastro us po parties interested, as well as to the revenue; f°'o,o person would engage extensively in the trade, l':°so. ing that the duty would be much lower in o ff, umber, when the 4s. duty would be taken He would likewise strongly recommend them to Pi' of the same extra duty of 4s. on the better class3t it foreign colonial sugar, as Mr. Miles proposed to Pa,f, on what he called white clayed free-labour s It was well known that extensive refineries had i , oes recently erected near Calcutta, and in other pool for the purpose of making a fine strong-gr3ory sugar. This fine kind of sugar had of late g nt _ much into use, and bade fair to supersede the Tes( o , refined or lump sugar; so much so, that scarce]) other was used. This fine crystallised glb:so was likewise made in Demerara, an d „oile now selling at 705., while brown Ma se ; ni si sugar was selling at 565. Now, observe (c3°liiiis' the Right Honourable Baronet), the brown ii covado sugar which sells at full price for 513',.;5t exposed to a competition with sugar theproduce °l os ; own colonies, which is worth 705.; and it is exP ti ts to competition with it at exactly the sone tet ss of duty ; there is no discrimination w'll a ' f These processes of manufacture, the result °flee application of great capital, are bringing int ° d r best market, in competition with the ordinary. rot duce of the West India colonies, great quantitfyed fine sugar, at the same amount of duty. r j o . t propose to make no distinction between thos e vies, but to admit sugar from all at the Nam e to but 3rou do propose, in respect to foreign sug ar s establish a discrimination which you do not PrFrfos to apply to your own. If this foreign sugar, W h s ic worth 705., as compared with other sugars at bo s i t be admitted at the same duty, why should you lot able, supposing there be white sugar coming, so Java or Manilla, to compete with the sugar 01utios precisely in the same way, as the coarsest descrl_its of sugar, worth 565., will come into competitio n gor, the coarse description of foreign sugar 0 ?--,( set hear.) Those, then, are the grounds upon wincitot Majesty's Government do not think it would he'l to vote for the discriminating duty in favour of en d's nial sugar which is proposed by my Hon. fi l ly resolution, which gives a protecting duty °I the (Hear, hear.) We cannot, therefore, asse nt :J e ri' proposal of my Hon. Friend, because, after 0 1151 o so tion, we entertain a decided preference for O f hicli plan. We do not think what he proposes is one i w it 0 ought to receive the assent of this House, an'orits not, therefore, in our power to vote for it on its 111 'o 0 Differing from my Hon. Friend on the merits, to purely commercial point of view, I do not hesitntepo, admit, on the part of the Government, that, IW ° . li s ists litical grounds, I cannot undertake to adopt hl T he o My Hon. Friend, in supporting his motion, sai d rot was no very material difference between the re posal of her Majesty's Government and his ° r o ses that he proposed, in respect to both ties of sugar the same amount of protecting dutl;t that therefore we might without difficulty ad ° P r of amendment of my Hon. Friend. If it be a matte It no importance we are disinclined to adopt it ' ra llf was carried by a combination of those who gene ,)0, support us, by a combination with our political °Ps;cji nents. If the measure be unimportant, an d 3 ii combinations take place in support of it , l hea r) surely significant of a want of confidence.—(l l " l :' s se e If you cannot effect an important public object , " t e' be no great difference in the two proposals, in c o pts quence of the concurrence between political oPrrie%e• that surely bears strongly on our condition as of cutive Government, and diminishes our means 0 , the our duty. Ido not believe that the concurrence in de' vote was a casual concurrence, growing out of the joe bate. Circumstances—l may be wrong—but 10, pression is that it was a preconcerted arraneerne9pd (Loud cries of " No, no," in which Mr. Miles ..1°.0,0 heartily.) When my Honourable Friend tells roe, , t io that is not not so lam bound to believe him, ba',ol' we inferred there had been a preconcerted under s ' l n o ing.—(Cries of " No, no.") Understand Inc, I a ° ,,i g fil complaining—(Cries of " Oh, oh ")—but I have 1 . 1 1 11 , of to state it.—(Hear, hear.) Ido not deny the , 0 0 Hon. Gentlemen to enter into combinations, but I J r , a right to consider what bearing that has upon t ile s tA salon of the Government when it may determin e . fl isis whether it will accede to an unimportant prop osi b ise I cannot doubt the right of the two parties to cow ba t if they please to carry an unimportant proposition, foilY [must claim for myself the right and manner of dete r pe e , ing what the effect of my position would be in co nsega e , 1 ) 0 When my lion. Friend originally gave noti ce amendment, it was to this effect—that he s hould P i co pose a reduction of duty upon British colonia l sugd dia the amount of 20s.—(Hear, hear.) My Hon Frier' the not indicate any intention at that time of reduciag,,of duties in the form and manner which he subset:Pap, submitted. His original proposition was, that a I Ttsa f tion should be made upon British colonial sugar , ba, oel e there should be no reduction upon foreign. Vie I t ioo Lord opposite (Lord John Russell) had made a 93-doll which proposed that there should be a protective shif t upon all sugars intended to be admitted of ten 00 lings ; and my Hon. Friend (Mr. Miles), at a subsi ii , la period, amended his motion, and shaped it in the fo. ova which it was ultimately brought before the Ho seta e us fearing that the West India party, who had e o va givings, might hereafter have their opinion. j c i l e to t against him, he accounted for his conduct by Sa d k ing 1 the forms of the House did not admit of hi s stir visa his original proposition. Now, in that my IP' e ees was quite wrong, for nothing could have been Inerci of of if it had suited the views of my Hon. Friend need his supporters—(Hear, hear, and laughter) -- t i dtl IT him to have adhered to his original proposition, ge in perfect conformity with the orders of the 'u s t ,' o nia'' without calling forth, Sir, your vigilance, or of r t bial‘ that risk which some of the West India pa% coo l he has incurred by giving effect to a ' l . l measure. It must be recollected that wb e 0 10 4 Honourable Friend (Mr. Miles) wa s whether he would make any relaxation in that duty of his amendment which referred to the Ili'h er .$5 v° white clayed sugar, that his answer was he r itt lefii prepared to do so.—(Hear, hear.) Now, I am as . 1 , 0 vi; dined to be mortified,or to complain of any langn i 7eve c „ e 3 in the course of debate as any man. I cann o t altogether forget the terms in which my 11°0 ' p ( 3 1 (Mr. Miles), as the mover, and the Hon. Gentlen4 pet.; (Bailie), as the seconder of his resolution, iatr,?velte'a this subject. I have no desire to exhibit the i i ' le r r e feeling of, temper on this occasion. Indeed, I ' di , ob; reeling of the sort, but I cannot but alluie Geoid tats' serlvations which were made by the llon. who Supported the motion. My lion. Friend :s - t - e ss s t . '". the Government were sacrificing the colonial and the first proof which he gave of that propootliLs sa ,t the reduction of the duty on foreign w ° ld o !it although he admitted that that reduction vc°l,"et ft materially interfere with the home productions)ters,i; he said that it was a blow to the Australian „,,, l ie sdt"., Now I hope I shall be able to satisfy my lion . - r f A I " ( that point. There has been a considerable sale ° tea tralian wool since that reduction, days since I was assured by an Hon. Gentlen3o,'Alliee„ on the other side of the House, that there never ' 1 ; 0 p is'', a more brisk sale of Australian wool ; that a ris;'„ o btre ie had followed the reduction, and that the price ° i! o ro t i Tian wool was higher now than it had been be cbe er:, reduction of the duty on foreign wool. -- - ( 0 ,3 and tlinx "srltainfl Therefore my Hon. Friend cannot quote aeala s et ive:,,, reduction of the duty on foreign wool as des i trg t ear ,) the Australian wool. My Hon. Friend ssi" hee ri% had better throw off the mask.—(Loud ins o!'01 My Hon. Friend having naturally a fellow - f ceL , the agricultural interest, calls up o n them to 1100111 him. It is but natural a n d l eg i t i ma te that lie' t o to so ; but my Hon. Friend makes a direct " P /tl l bi rs : Noble Lord, and to those opposite who `act, " v ,heta -( v ) and states that he is prepared to combine wit° t eat a 'j the purpose of rescuing the colonies. He wa do ,bie f,O O peal to the Noble Lord knowing that the S' bet' vec e was prepared to establish no distinction whatever° no sii nd „c e sugar, the produce of free labour, and sirar, of slave labour.—(Hear, hear.) My 'Ten. r . Member for Inverness, who seconded the In° t 1 l i / e sr). o that our course was vacillating and tortuousl len e 150 and that the West Indian interest had no o n the intentions of her Majesty's Governin e n e t :r sur po w appealed to Hon. Gentlemen opposite for th 1 t eelP h l e it which was willingly granted.ca beet frily ferring from the speeches of my Hon. Friendsa ° supporters, that in their opinion it is not des'', ire ,gra c e traduce any distinction of duty between si-a 0 , 1 sa d , sugar and free labour- sugar.—(Hear, bear.) ss,.o an occasion as this it is right that I should, s r' be t t s c p o e n r r s e e C q t u e u n n e r e e s s e N r y r i e l a , t t and h ey state n 1a3 t , 1 , 1e reasons Wn_ ) ; / ,',lncti e r abide by the proposition v% hich :e'efirasrternadcletursaeohte:iiiaie ing and counter cheering.) My lion. Frien t u ions ur de , certificates of origin are no security. If aV i , be 1113 or Friend was justified in the observations wh.:_ sn e2r , he must concede the admission of all forell 7r u iel l maintain the present system. My Hon• r i t y agV o s, 0' opinion that aeertificate of origin was no semi the introduction of foreign sugar, and I do o°t ,, s n e c e l; i _ ° ! fi e holding that opinion, he can escape from the 4ql, that all foreign sugar ought to be admitted2,(o,lll,"o, of duties remain as they are. The Hon. 11 0.. 1 Jeri ~0 seconded the motion expressed in still ni n _ c in i t ,g,:,i o terms his opinion of the impolicy of mei I. , e f distinction between free and slav e- ' 1"" Pr e i r os , Honourable Member admitted that 6 he as duty sf. a duty of 15s. on all foreign sugars to ( . - , ,.u .. i' ai dee /e5 applied by the Government to some perPeu., r iecif ie r There was a material difference between tne, Y d. et Frien of the Government and those of his Lion. ca a • be the authors of such a proposition. L 'erne- poi a Majesty's Government have determined th_readtetrhetYbestel,;,;. cuinstances, the course her Majesty's Gol , o p poses to pursue is this :—The Noble Lyra