The Sun. — London, England, 1845-04-04 00:00:00

It was perfectly understood that the College was to be eqablished and supported by the voluntary contribu tions of the Roman Catholic body, and on the present 3d of April th ere was no compact, statute or i mp li e d, or existing even in feeling, that sutport should he de rived f rom G overnment. On the ')9th April, leOS, a statement had been made by Sir Arthur Wellesley, at that ti me S ecretary of the Irieh Government, that the College of Maynooth was not to be supported from the thtt'lit4 if be made that - Abe. ow,a ea were to this esent was necessary, in order that the peace of' society might be better secured, he (Sir R. Inglis) would ask, *hat was the state of society in 1794 and 1793, and the state of the Church of Rome, as compared with the pre. sent time ? The experience of any man acquainted with public affairs would reply to the ques tion, that it was expected that the Roman Catholic Church was to be supported at its own expense. This was evident from the memorial of the Roman Catholic Archbishop, presented to Parliament on the 4th of April, 1794, in which he had expressly declared that if permission was granted to erect the College of Ida,ynooth, the members of the Roman Catholic C h irch were prepared to support it from their own funds. His Right H pp on. Friend at the head of the Government had referred to the opinion expressed by an illustrious states- Man in the course of his speech, to whom he could never refer without bearing his (Sir Robert Inglis's) testimony, and who had exhibited a consis tency of conduct and principle well worthy of the great interests he was called upon to direct, but it should he recollected that that great statesman bad not originated this grant, for it remained during his time just as it had been previously conferred. It mattered not whether it was 8,0001., or any other sum ; he could say for himself, and he believed he might assert for those friends who acted with him, that it was perfectly immaterial whether the sum voted was 8,0001, or double that amount, or half that amount; what they objected to was, any endowment at all for the Church of Rowe. lie believed that they would, none of them, be accused of want of toleration for refusing to be parties to this grant, and he did not despair in the hope that there would be found a majority in that house who would represent the majority of the People of England—(llcar)—and if his Right Hon Friend was disposed to neglect the opinion of that majority, he would beg to remind him, from the in fluence of public opinion on the education clause which her Majesty's Government had propounded some font or fire years ago, on the discussion of that measure, and to brg them to calculate what'svould be the effect of the expression of that same public opinion on the present measure, for he hail sufficient confidence in his countrymen to beli, ye, that if even a majority of this House were to confirm the grant which had been pro posed by his Right Hon. Friend, that it. would be:vir tually nullified by the opposition which it would en counter in the feelings and convictions of the country. If the opinion of Jr. 2 Grattan ware to be referred to, it was plain that that opinion was in opposition to the principles of this grant to Maynooth, for he believed that it would promote `anything but order and peace. In the discussion five years ago the lion. Member for Dun ga.rvon (Mr. Sheil), in speaking oa this question, had expressed his opinion as being hostile to this grant; and Lord Morpeth, then Secretary for Ireland, who on that occasion came down to the House with the Irish sta tutes in his hand, had created a sensation from which the House did not recover so soon as lie thought it ought to have done; but he was surprised that the inti mations of that Noble Lord had not been acted upon. What was the language of the Act to whi c h th e H on . and L earne d Member had made reference ? He (>ir R. Inglis) believed that it would not bear the construction put upon it by the Hon. and Learned Member. It was the foundation on which his Right Hon. Friend had en deavoured to build the argument lie had advanced that evenine-. How r In the Act of the 35th George 111. ? It ran thus :—" Whereas by law, as now enforced, it is not lawful to endow any college or seminary for the edu eution of Roman Catholic persons, be it therefore e nacted," and so forth. Then it went on—" The trustees named in the Act and their successors will have power and authority" —Did the House think it was to demand an annual grant from a Protestant country ?—" to re ceive subscriptions and donations, to enable them to establish and endow an academy." Did this em power them to ask support for their College at the expense of the nation ?—(Hear.) When the Roman Catholics of Ireland asked in the year 1794 or 1795 for only one seminary to educate their priest hood, they asked as much as the Parliament of that year would grant, and more than the Irish Parliament of a I'M years before would have even entertained. So far Were the Roman Catholics of that day from maintaining that they were entitled to support from Government, that they were even contented with the permissicn to apply subscriptions and donations to the purposes of education. In the construction of an Act of Parlia ment the intentions of the parties making it should be considered, and he was sure that the promoters of that Act never intended to lay down the principle that the support of the Roman Catholic priest hood should be binding on the country.—(Hear.) Re contended that the pledge given at the Act of Union that B,OOOL should be given to this College for twenty years had been fully redeemed. He was opposed to her concessions on this subject, for the experience of the last twenty years proved that when concessions were *lade by Parliament its power was just so much weakened.—(Hear, hear.) In the same degree that they endowed the Roman Catholics they withdrew their support from the Protestant institutions of the country. It was alleged that the proposition of the Government would have the effect of conciliating Mr. O'Connell and his party. But how could that be ? In 1831 Mr. O'Con nell said that the grant ought to be 70,000/., but that he did not care whether it was abandoned altogether, as the `Catholic clergy would still be educated without Govern ment aid,—(Hear, hear.) He hoped that he had not failed altogether in proving that the proposed measure, it could be defended at all, was not to be defended on , t he gro un d o f an y com p ac t, e i t h er by Act of P arliament or by unbroken usage. If it could be defended at all, it was only on the ground of expedi ency —a word for which he had no particular favour— and which was justified only when considered with a view to correct principle.—(Hear, hear.) But he thought that, even on the ground of expediency, the Ministers would signally fail. He thought that the Catholics were as well able to maintain the education of their priests as the Dissenters of this country ; and he could not, recognise any claim of theirs to pre-eminence in this matter. Surely the education by the State of a body of men whose conscientious desire it must be to root out the Protestant, or State Church (as he would call it), as a nuisance in the sight of men, and a serious evil in the sight of God, was as great folly on the part of the State as that of the Dutch who sold gunpowder to their own besiegers. He did not suppose that the Ministers were actuated in bringing forward this measure by any other motive than a wish to do what was right between all parties.—(Hear, hear.) But he hoped his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government would believe that he spoke in the most inoffensive spirit when he said that it was to be regretted that the Right Hon. Baronet had not earlier made known to the House and the country what his views were upon this question.(Hear, hear.) He regretted that the Right Hon. Baronet did not state those views in 1840. (Cheers.) For his own part, he (Sir R. Inglis) was not ashamed to say that he took his stand on Protestant Christianitv—(Hear, hear)—that had been the Consti tution of this country for three hundred years—and although the vessel had, of late, been much tossed and shattered, yet there was still a Protestant feeling at the mast head, and as long as one plank remained, he, for one, would nail to the mast that flag of Protestant Chris tianity which, in better times, had waved over the whole empire. —(Cheers.) Ho thanked the House for the patience with which he had been heard, and concluded by moving a negative on the question, in the terms of the notice which he had placed in the hands of the Chairman.—/The Right Hon. Baronet was much cheered at the conclusion of his speech, and immedi ately after his resuming his seat, Members in great numbers left the House.) Capt B. OSBORNE, who was for some minutes in audible from the noise of Members leaving the House, said, that for three hundred years the Government of this country had been endeavouring to root out the Catholic religion from Ireland, but without success. That religion had survived and flourished when every thing around it had been destroyed. He thought the present Government was right in changing the policy ; and as they could not make seven millions of people Protestants, they should try to make them good Ca tholica.—(llear.) There was one fact which was not sufficiently known in this country—that every pulpit in Maynooth was required to be provided with a Bible ; and, from the paltry allowance, the College had given away last year 300 Bibles.—( Hear, hear.) The bishops had also expunged, from the notes to the Catholic ver pion, every passage which was considered offensive to their Protestant fellow - countrymen,—(Hear, hear.) He was not at all surprised that the opposition to this mea sure arose from those who were the most ready to rail at the Roman Catholic priesthood for their want of edu cation.--(Hear, hear.) A short time ago an Irish Lord, a Peer of Parliament, published a letter in the Evening Mail, relating to the controversy which he had respecting the shutting up of a path to a chapel. In that letter the Noble Lerd, the Marquis of West meath, was witty upon the bad spelling of the parish priest, and designated the Roman Catholic priesthood as " emasculated vermin " and " amphibious creatures," who put their " unwashed feet upon the necks of the poor, unhappy, and much to be commiserated people." fle was surprised he had heard nothing of the low Origin of these priests, but he could tell the House that Roman Catholics prided themselves upon raising their clergy from the lowest classes. In the middle ages the higher classes monopolised all the higher stations and offices of state, and it was through the instrumentality of the R , omish Church alone that democratic principles could find any outlet, and had it not been for this system Luther himself would have remained a farmer peasant. H e h oped, therefore, he should hear no more of the low origin of the priesthood. Prussia boasted of a Protestant population, and the Ring himself was a Protestant. In 1815 the Rhenish jStates, whose inhabitants were Roman Catholics, were oined to Prussia ; and what was the first step Prussia .took after this union ? Why, to found a Roman Ca tholic College, and to place themselves in communication with the Pope ? In 1821 the Pope issued his bull, by which he empowered the Prussian Crown to confer with the clergy in the election of Roman Catholic bishops ; and now a correspondence between the clergy and the Pope annually took place, under the ' superintendence of the Crown. And, if this system answered in Prussia, why, he would ask, should it not succeed here? It appeared to him that there were two classes of opponents to this measure. Some Hon. Members objected to making any provision whatever, while others, like the Right Hon. Baronet the Member fur Oxford, who thought they had an exclusive monopoly of the truth, and therefore they objected to what they called the endowment of error. 'With reference to the first class, he differed with them; but he had some diffi culty in meeting the objection of the Right Hon. Baronet the Alember for Oxford. The Bight Hen, Baronet objected to the endowment of what he called religious error ; but he wonl,l ask the Right Hon. Baronet who was to be the judge of what was religious truth? Wee that House to go into Committee, to discover what was and what was not religions truth ?—(Lsughter.) But the Treasury had no religious T , rstiesion at all, and the question, after all, was not whether there should be a Roman Catholic priesthood in Ireland, but whether they should be bad or good—literate or illiterate—clergymen or de magogues. But where was the sam to support these clergymen to come from ? He could not conceal from himself that the resolution of the Right Hon. Baronet op posite would ultimately lead to the endowment of the Roman Catholic Church ; and he was not prepared to take so large a sum from taxes, which were principally upon the'English people. But were there no other funds from which the money could be taken? He would put it to the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the Ec clesiastical Commissioners, wh3 were acting under the Church Temporalities Act, had not had a great deal more money in their hand than they well knew what to do with ? He very much regretted the Hon. Member for Sheffield had not, on that occasion, brought forward his motion for abolishing the Established Church in Ire land, because he was convinced, until they put an end to that Establishment, the question relating to Irish griev ances would not be set at rest. When he first entered the present Parliament, he heard the Hon. Member for East Kent express his delight at the Right Hon. Baronet taking office, because the Right Hon. Baronet was op posed to the maintenance of Romanism in Ireland. The Hon. Gentleman's opinion must be somewhat altered now. He was afraid they would have to call in some of the Custom-house authorities, to discriminate between the views of the Right Hon. Baronet, and those of the Noble Lord who sat on the Opposition side of the House. Ile fully sympathised with the Right Hon. Baronet, and hoped he would not be deterred from his present princi ples by a" No Popery" cry. The time was gone by, when the House was to be deterred from doing its duty by a bigoted agitation.--(Cheers.) Mr. GREGORY confessed that he had heard some singular arguments in favour of this measure. In • the first place the Right Hon. Gentleman who brought it forward had told them that it would tend to encourage Protestantism in Ireland. Why, if this were so, they had only to make an additional grant to the Pro testant Church in Ireland to encourage Remanism. While the Right Hon. Gentleman was speaking, he stated that it was in accordance with the wishes of the !Zeman Catholic prelates that he introduced this mea sure. lie (Mr. Gregory) however heard it perpetually stated that this measure was decidedly against the wishes of the Roman Catholic clergy, but that they were forced to it by the laity. He was not of opinion that the clergy had lost their influence so far over the laity. For a long time he could not understand how- this measure was to be brought forwerd. When the subject was on a former occasion introlueed by his Friend the Noble 2lember for North Lancashire, it was objected to his measure by the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) that he was unwilling to adopt any course that would connect the State with any Dissenting Establishment. It was said that this was it qu ,, stion whether the Roman Catho • lie clergy should be educated or not. He never would be an advocate for ignorance, but he would object to the course of education pursued at the College of Maynooth. He would ask, hail there emanated from that institution within the last twenty years one single constellation in the literary world? He would contend against the course of education proceed«l with there, and also would vote against the grant. Had the Right II?n. Baronet come to the House and said, Do away with the College of Maynooth, and institute colleges through out Ireland, and let there be no exclusive religious edu cation, then he (Mr. Gregory) would support those colleges. Maynooth had brought up the priest hood in a manner that had rendered them a repulsive body. It did not raise them to a position that would do justice to their ardour and zeal. It made them unwilling to enter into society. He hoped he had not said anything that was in any way calculated to offend the feelings of those who were op posed in religious opinion to himself, if he had, he hoped that they would not attribute it to intention on his part. It an exclusive religious education was adopted, and if this establishment was disconnected with the State, they would find tlie Roman Catholic priests loyal and or derly, not the leaders in agitation, but exercising that influence, which should be used not to sever, but to rivet those chains with which nature had bound down their consciences. Lord F. EGERTON said that he was deeply sensible of the fact, that his vote this night would be at variance with the views and opinions of those who supported him —of those, the representing of whom he always considered the greatest honour he could obtain. It was, therefore, with regret that he could, with reference to any subject, express a difference of opinion from his supporters. He on that account felt it incumbent upon him not to keep silent altogether, though he was not anxious to interfere with the House on a subject that was nearly exhausted. He would not enter into the state of the establishment of Maynooth, but it was clear, that whatever contracts were made consequent on the arrangements of 17 . 95, it was evident, he would say, that no such contracts would bind them at the present day. He was of opinion, that the other course which was suggested by his Right Hon. Friend who had just sat down—that cf abolishing the grant altogether—would be, under the circumstances, an un reasonable one ; he thought that such a measure would be dangerous to the State ; it would be considered as an insult and an injury—it would be perilous to the Established Church, and an obstacle and a bar to any increase of Protestantism in Ireland. It had been ex plained, that the expenze at the College of Maynooth was given per head, and it apps ared to be three pounds less than was allowed to a private soldier.— (Hear, hear.) A private soldier got from the State 251. and a student at Maynooth was allowed 231., which was 2/. less. He would take the occasion to say, and he was sure that the House a ould agree with him in stating that the Hon. Member who had just sat down had not used any language which could be hurtful to anybody, and that what he had said reflected great credit on him. He (Lord F. Egerton) had, on a former occasion, which was referred to by hi s H on . F r i en d, th e h onour o f moving for a larger grant to Maynooth, and he wished to say that, with reference to his constituents, he had nothing to reproach himself with, as regarded consis teney. He would also say that, with reference to his religious feeling, which could hinder him from sup porting the course now suggested, he did not think that discussions on religious faith were fit for the atmosphere of that House. He hoped, however, that hi s re li g i on would be only known by his practices. From what k now l e d ge h e h a d o f Ire land, and the views which h e ent e rt ai ne d towards that country, he. aid not see anyt hi ng that could deter him from exercising that liberality which was to-night pro posed. He should ha ve some diffi culty in coming to the conclusion of granting 30,0001. to the Maynooth College, if his religious feelings were to be alone considered, but he did not see how they could interfere. He recollected that on his introduction of a measure of a like nature some time ago, it was received with great consideration by the House, and was not met by any uncontrollable principles; even in the state of opinion in that day it was not considered an inexpedient measure. H e con fessed that he thought the measure a reasonabl e one , and it would not be met by any objection from him. H e could not alter his opinion as to the expediency of the measure which he on a former occasion proposed. Mr. WARD said that he merely rose to state, in as few words as possible, the reasons why he should press the vote which he should make to-night. He should, also, express the heartfelt gratification with which he had heard the principles laid down by the Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government. It should be pleasing to any man to see those principles stated to the House in such an irresistible manner. Whatever the Hon. Member for Oxford might say, though he stood there as the repre sentative of a Protestant constituency, he could not believe it could be the real and unaffected feeling of this country, when the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet came to be calmly and deliberately discussed. The Noble Member for Dublin, considering the party which he represented, made a speech which did credit to his taste, but he said he felt deep disappointment at the result of the experi ment tried in 1795. What better ground could he seek for that disappointment than the fact that he had refused to educate the Roman Catholic clergy in a proper manner ? Ile assigned salaries to the students of the College of Maynooth, which he would not assign to his butler or his cook. When such was the state of things, what else could result than disappoint mutt? If they treated them as good subjects, and as fellow Christians, they would find different results. The Hon. Gentleman asked also why they should make a grant to the Catholic clergy, when they did not allow such a thing to any other dissenting sect. Why should they not give it to them when they confis cated their property for their own purposes ?—(Hear.) The lion. Gentleman (Mr. Ward) then proceeded to observe that he never saw a nobler determination than that which was displayed by the Right Hon. Baronet at the bead of her Majesty's Government, to make amends for his former conduct in refusing to increase the grant to that institution—(Hear, hear) — and he could not see what inconsistency there was in it. The principles laid down for the government of those who made this grant at the time of the union were the same as they were now; and when Mr. Pitt and Lord Howick, and many other lion. Members, had agreed at one time upon this subject, they were overruled by the act of a small but compact party in their thirst for that power which was the p-incipal element by which they were banded together in that House.---( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet has made a liberal proposition in his proposed increase of this grant, and he (Mr. Ward) would not oppose it; but it would be his duty, in order to follow a consistent course, to contend that this sum should not be paid out of the general taxation of the country.—(Hear, hear.) Therefore he could not say that this measure had h's cordial support, for he thought it was a mistake to supply the grant from the fund from which it was proposed to take it. He did think that the Government ought to pause before they imposed a tax upon the Dissenters of this country or of Scotland for the support of a faith to which they did not belong, and which they did not believe in ; and this part of the sub ject he would take care to introduce to the notice of the House again at the proper time when the Bill should be introduced. But in the mean time he would give the principle and the proposition his most cordial support, for he believed it would have the effect of creating much good feeling amongst the Catholics of Ireland. Mr. LAW said he would have no hesitation in stating that it was his intention to oppose this proposition ; but he would like to state his reasons fur doing so. And at the same time that he did express his objection to such a measure, he should also express the obli gation he felt under to the Right Honourable Ba ronet for the extreme candour of the course he had pursued in giving a full and timely announcement of his intention to propose this measure ; and whatever objec tion he (Mr. Law) might have to the principle of the measure, neither he nor any one else opposed to the measure could say they had been taken by surprise. There was also another Act of the Government, between the last and the present 6 ession, which afforded a clear indication of the intention of the Government not only in respect to this, but to other measures of a like nature, but of more extended and of greater importance. He alluded to the Commission in reference to the Roman Catholic Bequest Bill, in which he found the names of the Roman Catholic prelates, not only placed in juxta position with eminent divines of the Protestant Church, but a precedence allowed to the former over the latter, which gave to them, as it were, by anticipatioo, a position superior in rank and degree to Peers of the realm.—',Hear, hear.) But he did not complain of this ; on the contrary, he did think that the Right Hon. Baronet was entitled to claim credit for the candour and honesty of the course he had stated his intention to pursue in reference to the Roman Catholic t C o h u t b rc o h, E a s T a l bl b is y b o w d 'hi c ch bur a c b e e r w t a a i s n a c m e r o t u a n i n t o t f d o e f r o o l l g o a ,, t . i . o_n (Hear, hear.) He felt it would he out of place for him to quarrel with any increased grant proposed to be given for the education of Roman Catholic priests in future ; but he could not but regard this proposition, whatever the intentions of the Government might be, as a precursor of other measures for the ultimate endowment of the Roman Catholic Church, and to place it in a coordinateordinate position hear.) it w ionwith the Established becauseilisecl Clnir ch in Ireland he could discover no resting-place for this proposed exten sion and liberality between a mere act of that nature, and such a result as he had stated be feared would follow, that he had, after much anxiety, been compelled, with great regret, to state he had come to the determination, part butof h t i o s b t b o o n n s i d n e o n e d r i u t t y y , a n n o d t c o o n n l) s , i s t t o e n t h cy e , Established own C a s h a u reh, opinions,aut. nea —( to offer Fora ffer his decided considerabledecidedopposi timetioit bois this propeteed ,grant.—(Hear) judgment was in the balance, while he saw that the Right Hon. Baronet's proposed liberality to Maynooth was mixed up with a large scheme for a comprehensive system of aca demical education in Ireland ; but all doubt and uncertainty was removed from his mind when ha heard the announcement that the increased grant to Maynooth was to be a separate and distinct proposition. He (Mr. Lau-) hoped it would not be supposed that he meant to impute any but the purest and most exalted motives to the Government in adopting this course ; neither did he feel that, though he differed from the Government upon this question, he should feel called upon to withdraw his general confidence from that Government which, for the last ten years, he had reposed in them— (Hear, hear)—and, in return, he claimed only the same charitable construction for his motives that he conceded to ethers ; and that, therefore, the sincerity of his views ought not to he questioned when he said he felt confidence in this, the best Government that this country ever possessed since the passing of the Reform Act.—(Ministerial cheers.) He did very much regret that the Right Honourable Baronet had IV deemed it expedient to develbp his scheinefor acadeeiical edu cation in Ireland. If he had done so, and,. Made it a unieersal increase of generel erlecation for all creed; and classes of the community, instead of making May nooth College an exclusive seminary for the education of Roman Catholic priests, he would have deprived this measure of much of the mischief which he (Mr. Law) believed would attend it in its present shape. With re gard to the question of academical education, he begged of the Right Hon. Baronet, and the House, to recollect that there was at present Trinity College, at Dublin, in which Roman Catholics were frealy admitted, and had open to them, if they chose to take advantage of it, all the honours of that University. But in the College of Maynooth there was now presented one of the grossest anomalies ever exhibieed in any establish ment instituted for such purposes. It was true that this was a boon which had been granted by the Govern ment of this country for the institution of Maynooth College, and it was established for the purpose of afford ing education to Roman Catholic priests, and thereby prevent them from resorting to foreign countries for such, and imbibing with it revolutionary principles, or sentiments inimical to the Government of their own country.--(Cries of " Hear, hear," from the Mi nisterial benches.) He would not attempt to follow the arguments of the Hon. and Learned Member for Oxford, but he was willing to admit the truth of the assertion, that in the year 1795, and at different periods since then, several Acts were passed for the endowment and main tenance of this establishment, but he begged to remind the House that these Acts invariably limited the period over which this grant was to extend to twenty years, which had long since expired, though of course subse quent enactments had amplified the time. However, if he could persuade himself that this was an honourable engagement which the Government ought to feel bound to fulfil, he would be the last to oppose it, but he did not feel that the Government were at all called upon either. to extend the grant to Maynooth or to continue it, But there was a great difference between extending their grant and continuing it at a fixed sum. This, he was aware, would be met by the assertion that the fixed sum was . not sufficient. He could not deny the fair spirit in which this proposition had been made; and he could not doubt the purity of the intention of those who had proposed it. If it was the determination of the House that the grant to Maynooth should continue, then he thought it was desirable that the annual discussion on this question should be discontinued. Feeling satisfied, however, that this permanent grant would involve the destruction of the fundamental article of the Union, and at no distant period that it would destroy that portion of the united Irish and English Church in Ireland, he should feel it his duty, as they were not to be permitted to make the annual grant without being told that they conceded the principle of a permanent obligation, he for one should oppose the measure, the effect of which was—first to increase the grant, to render it per petual and national by Act of Parliament, and through that grant and through that admission of principle, ulti mately to destroy the united English and Irish Church.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BELLEW thought that the majority of the ob servations of the Hon. Gentleman whip had just sat down were quite irrelevant to the subject; under disCussion. They had heard from the Hon. Member for Oxford, who. might be considered the Coryphmus of the :party most opposed to this grant, and from the Hon. Member for Kent, much about contributing to a system of idolatry by giving the grant to Maynooth. He did not think that many would be found to carry out to their full extent the principles of those who opposed the present measure, and neither the force of their argu ments nor the charity of their sentiments made up for their numbers. What did he see lately in a Dublin paper ? He would read an extract to the House—" The policy of Sir Robert Peel is to declare war against Jesus Christ. That the devil entered into his policy was as manifest as if the inspired historians recorded the fact." —(Laughter.) There was a petition presented that night from Trinity College, which he thought might be better employed. After stating in that petition that they heard with regret of the measures about to be adopted by the Government, they said that it was unwise to endow the Catholic religion, which was opposed to revealed truth. Let them act on that principle, and persecution would be the result.—(Hear, hear.) Toleration would be but a matter of degree. The Inquisition, the Dragonades of Louis XIV., and the penal statutes of William and Anne would be justified.—(Hear, hear.) Why, lately, when the Dissenters' Chapel Bill was before Parliament, a prelate of the Protestant Church opposed it, because Unitarianism was opposed to the land. And was there so much uniformity in that House to justify any of them in saying what was and what was not right in religious matters ? There were members of the Established Church who were divided between Calvinism and Catho licity. There were members of the Calvinistic Church, who were divided between Calvinism and Armenianism. . There was the Church of Scotland, divided not only in discipline but in doctrine, he believed. And why should it not be so? It .was the great boast of the Protestant churches that the Bible, and the Bible alone, was their reli• glen. But it was hard that the gentlemen who opposed this measure, who claimed the principle of a free interpreta tion, should also claim the advantage of authority by establishing what was right and wrong, and what doc trines were alone worthy of consideration of the State. ' The time had gone by when such a principle could be acted upon. They got Canada in 1774, and there the Catholic religion was endowed. When by their arms they had extended their colonies, Spanish Trinidad and Dutch Demerara were equally welcome, and the mainte nance of the Catholic religion was extended to the colo nies. There was not one among the forty-one colonies which they possessed, in which the Catholic religion was not supported by this country. In Newfoundland the Catholics shared in the endowment of the State, in a very small and inadequate degree, indeed, but still it was endowed. Th en , at home, hey supported the chaplain of th e I r i s h military regiments, the chaplains of the gaols were supported and those who officiated in workhouses, and that was a stronger case, because the payment was in proportion to the work done, and the Catholic chaplains h av i ng , o f course , more to do, were paid more than the Protestant chaplains. If those things were done when bigotry was strong and robust, how absurd to object to it at the present time. They had about 200 or 300 clergy men connected with their mili tary regiments in Ireland, and in their colonies, and in their workhouses, who had received money for the dis charge of their duties. Why, then, should they object to the payment of 30,0001. for their education in Maynooth? The original endowment of that College was the re sult of, a cold policy. At the time the College was endowed. there was a great dread of what were called French principles, and being afraid that if those who were intended for the Roman Catholic Church would be inoculated with those principles if they were educated abroad, the College of Maynooth was en• dowed, but in the most miserable spirit, as the wretched grant which was ,given proved.—(Hear, hear.) The number of persons at present maintained at May .nootti was 250, and there were about 200 educated else where in Ireland and abroad. Now, it was clear that in a question like the present the State should be every thing or nothing. There must be a great national ob ject in view, or this subject would not be considered at all. He would not enter into theological details, because he considered that House was a most improper place to enter into a discussion of theology; but he would refer the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, and the Hun. Member for the University of Oxford, and all . others who thought that something exceedingly bad was taught at Mayno.oth, to the evidence given before the Commission of 1&25 by the Professor of Moral and Dog matic:ullfd world l'fit: ; ahu sod t that r Gentlemen ew as nothing read taughthis evidence, T h taught a ught dogmas throughout .lay e t o h l e o y gy wo . Maynooth Catholics which a w t hole were the dogm as of the Sorbonne, and noo ti t i h e were the same which were taught to the 1 20,000,000 of human beings who composed! the Catholic world. There seemed to be a very erroor.sous impression . also in favour of the Catho lic priests of Ireland in a time gone by. He would read to the F.ouse the opinion of that sagacious man, Edmund Burke, upon that point. That great man said ti"*.at those persons who were intended fur the Roman Cat:nolic priesthood, after scraping up such scanty '.education in Ireland as the penal -laws permitted them to obtain, they went to the continent, and, after acquiring a little theology, they came back, without any solid knowledgea, and ill-disposed towards this country. The same erninent person, in reference to an exclusive teanhtoati itt htoline. establishment for the clergy, to which objections had been urged that night, said that, in providing education fur any body of men, they ought seriously to consider the particular functions they were intended to discharge; that the authorities of the Roman Catholic religion, and the celibacy required of its priesthood, rendered it undesirable that they should be educated in common with others intended for worldly occupations. He (Mr. Bellew) did not think it would be right of him to sit down without expressing his gratitude to the Right Hen. Baronet for the manner in which he had brought it forward, and next to the measure itself, for the language he used.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman brought it forward in a liberal and confiding spirit, and he believed and trusted it would be received in Ireland in :a similar spirit. The Right Honourable Baronet had !not used a single expression to detract from the grace and favour of the measure. He hoped that as the Right Hon. Baronet had been the means of carrying Catholic Emancipation, it was yet re served for him to link together the two countries in the bond of mutual friendship. Ile saw many occurrences taking place which led him to hope that though unfortu nately there, was at present in Ireland considerable agi tation, still there was every day a better feeling spring ing up there by which the education board, the pro mised measure of academical education, and this Bill showed the Right Hon. Baronet was determined to con ciliate the Irish Catholics, and no party feelings would prevent him from expressing his gratitude to the Right Hon. Gentleman, and he would further say, and he wished he only Lave utterance to the feelings of the Roman Catholic people of Ireland, when he said that such measures had their right good wishes.—(Cheers.) Lord SANDON hoped the House would excuse him for saying a few words in consequence of the position he was placed in. He looked at this question as one of compact, and, as he had already stated, it should have his hearty support.—(Hear, hear.) That compact should be carried out in that large and liberal sense by which intercourse between the two countries should be guided. He agreed with his Right Hon. Friend (Sir B. Inglis) that there was nothing in the Act of Union which affected this grant one way or the other, but in the discussions which took place on the question in 1808, shortly after the union, in which the men who carrted the union were en gaged, the propriety of this grant was distinctly recog nised. Then there was the lapse of time, fifty years of unbroken continuanc e o f thi s g rant. If they had en do wed a college in Canada fifty years ago, would they withdraw that allowan ce now ? They would not. Then why treat Ireland diff e re n tly ? Next they should re member the circumstances under which the grant was made, liegland was then i nvo l ve d in a continental war, and nearly all the nations of Europe were leagued against her ; and in order to obtain the hearty co-operation of the Irish people, they promised to endow Maynooth.— (Hear, hear.) Ought they now, after fifty years, to violate that engagement. Suceeedbw Governnectite and Parliementa—Whig and Tory—had all eg-reed to this allowance, any why should a less liberal feeling now prevail ?—(Hear, hear.) With respect to his own feel ings, he owned he was intlueneed by other motives than those of a compact. Ile had always voted in favour of the claims of the Catholics—he had no conscientious temples. They should not treat Ireland on &fferent principles from the colonies. They passed Acts of Par liament making provision for Roman Catholic ministers in the colonies, and for chaplains of gaols and workhouses at home, and if they were now to act otherwise, they must pull to pieces the whole machinery of society. There were nearly 7,000,00 0 of Catholics in Ireland, and it was we who put them into the condition of suppliants. —(Hear, hear.) We seised upon the Church property in Ireland. and gave the people of that country no equi valent.—(Hear, hear.) IVithout any change in their religion, we took their property from them.—(Hear, hear.) These facts could not be overlooked. This was not a simple question of endowment ; it was one of retribution.—(Renewed cries of " Hear, hear.") He repeated, the property of the Roman Catholics in Ireland was extorted from them, and as England had made compensation to other countries, why not compen sate the Irish people? He admitted the claims of our Roman Catholic fellow -subjects to civil privileges, and we should endow them with the means of educating their clergy. Taking all these things into consideration he thought that any opposition to this measure would be worse than useless. Unless the House were prepared to go back through the whole course of fifty years, they must assent to this grant which the Right Honourable Baronet had proposed. If they would but look at the picture drawn by the Right Ilonourable Baronet they could not but assent, in his opinion, to the propo sition which had been laid before them. The main con sideration was, whether there should be a removal of the restrictions on the education of those Who were to be the spiritual instructors of the members of the Roman Catholic church, and whether they should remain in a - comparative want of the necessary elements of their utility, orwhether they should be instructed in all the elements of general literature. He, for his part, did not think that there was any alternative between an entire disruption of the principles on which the Government of the country had been conducted and the acceding to the grant which the Right !lion. Baronet had proposed. It affected no principle whether the grant proposed was 9,0001. or 20,000 L, for the principle was the same, and his Right Hon. Friend waxerdly justified in proposing the grant, which had for tifories of years been made be fore he came into offices, or-a-larger grant for the more perfect education of the Irish ecclesiastical members of the Church of Rome. This grant was simply an en largement of the usual gratit, and it was no affection of the principle that the , grant was enlarged, and in the present circumstances lie saw no alternative between going back and acceding to the proposition which had been laid before the House. To go back was evidently impossible ; and, therefore, there was no other alterna tive than to accede to the proposition of his Right Hon. Friend. If they would' refer to the case of Canada, it was evident that they ,Irmst either withdraw from the poplation of that coining the means which they had griAnted for the religious education of the people, or carry out the same principle with regard to :Ireland ; and he thought that the. Mere mention of that instance ought to be a sufficient warning to those who opposed this grant. And deeply as be regretted refusing to act with those who had been his coadjutors for many years, yet he could not, in the present case, hesitate to support the motion of his Right lion. Friend. Mr. PLUMPTRE said that he had been lately deeply engaged in an anxious investigation of this subject, and he was now fully convinced that the opinion which he had expressed on the first day of the session, that the announcement the Right Hon. Baronet had made at the end of the session would excite no ordinary sensa tion, and he now believed that that sensation would be increased both in extent and intensity, when the inten tions of the Right Hon. Baronet were made known throughout the country. He believed that he should re ceive ample credit for the assertion that any opposition to her Majesty's present Government was to him ex ceedingly painful, but of the measure which had been in troduced on this occasion he must express his most decided disapproval, for he must confess that it exceeded his most enlarged expectations—(Laughter) —and to which the objections of his Hon. Friend (Sir. R. Inglis) were, he thought, unanswerable ; but there were other consi derations which ought to be taken into account. He had, the other night, presented a petition from the Archdeacon of Buckingham and eighty clergy.— (Laughter.) Was this a class whose opinions and feel ings were unworthy of consideration ?—(Hear, hear.) They had objected most strenuously to this measure.— (Laughter.) He (Mr. Plumptre) did not think that this was a class of individuals to be neglected; and he would ask her Majesty's Government whether the rejection of their claim to consideration would put the Govern ment, with respect to the country, into any better position than that in which they now stood? What was the language of the petitions presented, to the House on this question ? They were strenuously op posed to this measure. They said that a provision to the Church of Rome was a provision to propagate idola try. They pronounced the doctrines o the Church of Rome idolatry, and they knew that the displeasure of God was pronounced against idolatry. This was the opinion of the great majority of those who had flooded that House with their petitions. They had expressed a decided opinion upon the subject, and he (Mr. Plumptre) would say, that if they passed this measure they might expect the Divine judgment upon the country. The great majority of the Protestants of this country were influenced by this opinion, and he asked whether the House was right in sitting that night to insult the people —he should not, perhaps, say insult — but he would ask if the House would slight the recorded opinion of the people of England? Why should they measure as nought the entreaties, almost the alarm, of the people of England? He asked if the House would treat with disrespect the petitions of the large body of her Ma jesty's subjects? He (Mr. Plumptre) believed that the Roman Catholics themselves —for they had let their sen timents out—cared but little for this concession— they pressed but little for this boon which the Government was so very ready to accede to them. If they wished to pander to the whims and hu mours of the Roman Catholics, then let them pass this measure. Could they doubt that if this measure were passed they would not be urged to further concessions? He felt pained at being obliged to oppose her Majesty's Government, but he also felt bound in principle to do so. Lord J. RUSSELL said that no one would call into question the sincerity and strong religious feeling which actuated the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. He (Lord J. Russell) did not think that it would be wise or prudent, after the lapse of . fifty years, to st o p su dd en l y and declare agains t an y further grant for the education of the Roman Catholic priesthood, but at the same time if they found that grant was mischievous to the community, if they found a significant reason for its discontinuance, if they found that instead of being educated for ministers of religion, the students of May nooth were brought up as conductors of rebellion, then it would be equally wise and politic of the House to withhold this grant. This would be a sufficient reason why the grant should not be continued to Maynooth. But if, on the other hand, it were admitted and affirmed by a majority of that House, that a grant of the sum of 9,000/. and no more ought to be allowed far the sub siitence of tha College of Maynooth, no religious scruples could be alleged against the incrave of that grant to a larger sum. He thought that all the appeals which had been made to the religious prejudices of this country were beside the question.—(Hear, hear.) If the Gentlemen who opposed the present proposition had ooposed the grant of 9,0001., he might be willing to admit their consistency. But it had been proved that the means of instruction were not pupils—that the instructors paid—then there w as no room for sufficient—that there was not a sufficient provision for principl es aga i ns t th e vote. the were r decent iennteortfea rde c en im ue a f o o t er r lt y.religious —(Hear, hear.) He could very well understand why re ligious scruples should interfere to prevent a Member of that House from agreeing to any vote whatever for Maynooth College; but no Member, who had consented to the vote in any shape, could allege religious scruples as a reason for denying increased comforts to the students or increased pay to the ill-paid professors.— had agreed to the previous (Hear, hear.) Them who votes of 9,0001 had no ground for pretending their re lirlious scruples as an objection to an increase of 17,000/ The religious objection was as great to 9,000/. as 26,000/.--(Criea of " Hear, hear.") He thought it was almost impossible to discuss in that House the religious feeling which the Hon. Gentleman oppo site had said prevailed against the encouragement of the Roman Catholic religion as a system of idolatry. If the persons who entertained that feeling came forward to show that their own religious feelings would be in terfered with, these statements might have some weight. —(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord the Member for Liver pool had truly said, that the great majority of the people of Ireland adhered to the faith of the most ancient branch of the Christian Church, and that no other spiritual teachers but the priests of that branch could supply religious instruction to that people.— (Hear, hear.) He concurred with the Noble Lord and he believed that the improved instruction of the Roman Catholic priests would enable them to make the people as . it had made them—better than they would otherwise have been.—(Hear.) He would not deny that he should prefer that the majority of the people of Ire land had adopted the principles of the Reformation. But he must take them as they were. They had not changed their faith, when the people of England did so. —(Hear.) They had preferred to sacrifice the property of their Church, and the property of its adherents — (Hear)—and, therefore, he agreed with the Noble Lord opposite, that the proposed measure was one of restitution, not of gratuity. He thought that the Right Hon. Baronet had shown in his speech good grounds for the increase ; and he was glad to infer from that speech that further concession was intended. He would. therefore, give his vote cordially for the proposition of the Right Hon. Gentleman. He would not now go into a discussion of the proposition given notice of by his Hon. Friend' the Member for Sheffield. But he would say, that in the course of this discussion, strong and in controvertible arguments had been alduced in favour of an endowment for the Catholic clergy in Ireland.— (Hear.) He would not then go into a discussion of the voluntary system; but he could not allow the debate to pass without saying that he thought the spiritual in structors of the Irish people ought to be paid by the State.—(lkar, hear.) He did not wish every one to be misled by what he stated. But he thought that there was nothing in the nature of the Government proposi tion of that night, which could afford a reason for opposing it to those who for twenty years had supported the grant of 9,000/ ; He concurred with the petitions which had been pre• sented against the grant in thinking it was a step towards a further and more comprehensive measure ; but upon that very ground he supported the proposition of the Government. He could not altogether refrain from re ferring to the opposition which had been given in past years to measures favourable to the rights and calcul3ted Jo improve the condition of the people of Ireland. He deeply reeretted that there was not even now existing that harmony, that good feeling, that concord between the people of England and the people of Ireland, which they all ought to desire. He regretted to see that when a popular leader entered a town in Ireland to propose a repeal of the union, which in the opinion of the majority of that House would be followed, at no distant period, by a separation of the two countries, he was attended by 30,000 or 40,000 people, and that loud acclamations fol lowed at his heels. In the last twenty years there had been too much disposition in this country to inveigh against the religion which the people of Ireland pro fessed and to upbraid them in coarse and contumelious terms. He did not think that men who came forward in 1820 and said they would never get up an agitation for the repeal of the Union, or seek a separation between the two countries, if the Catholic Emancipation Act were carried, would have failed to keep their word, if they had not had good cause for breaking it. These men would have stood to their engagements had all gone on right, and there would have no more been inquiry now into the cause of agitation in Ireland, than they ti-ould have been talking, about agitation in Yorkshire or Middlesex. But he trusted the Government of the present day were about to abandon all former political conflicts, and about to enter upon a wiser and a more generous policy, which should hereafter lead to the benefit of the people of Ireland, and lead to a better feeling between the people of the two countries. Many of the Roman Catholics of Ireland were as distinguished for worth and humanity, as they were for talents and learning. No other part of the Christian Church pro duced men so famous for their piety, and so distin guished for their excellence of character. He said he hoped the people of Ireland would hereafter feel and unite with the people of England. They should feel that they were ready to do them justice—that they were not led by any narrow projects—that they were not led—he trusted the Hon. Clentleman who spoke last would not think that he meant to be personal—by a spirit of religious bigotry, to refuse that which was justice to them, and justice to their suffering country. He trusted they would look to this measure not as a final measure, but as one of a series of measures by which the British Parliament hoped to unite the two countries in enduring bonds.—(The Noble Lord resumed his seat, amidst loud cheers.) Colonel Sibthorp and Mr. Stewart Wortley rose together, to address the House. There were loud cries for Colonel Sibthorpi but the Hon. and Gallant Member gave way. Mr. S. WORTLEY was anxious to take an early op• portunity of addressing. the House, and explaining the reasons which induced him to feel that it was his duty to support the proposal of the Right Hon. Baronet. Although he could not admit that there was any literal contract for continuing or increasing this grant, he had a strong impression that there was a moral engagement upon this subject which persuaded him this institution was deserving the support of Parliament. They were answered first of all by the Hon. Member for Kent, that on conscientious grounds they should not make the grant; but though he (Mr. S. Wortley) felt the deepest, and professed the strongest, attachment- to the Church to which he belonged, yet he did not believe it inconsistent with that attachment to concur in the pro posal made by the Right Hon. Baronet. The Ho nourable Member for Oxford used an argument which amounted to this—that, as far as the State is concerned, it should rather see the people of Ireland infidels or atheists, or left to their own choice in religious matters, than see them Roman Catholics. It was their business, however, to recognise the responsibilities that were imposed upon them by the State. He himself felt that responsibility sufficiently strong to compel him to support the proposals of the Right Hon. Baronet. Colonel SIBTHORP here rose to address the House, but, in consequence [of loud cries of " Sit down," and "Divide," was obliged to resume his seat. Mr. C. BRUCE, who was frequently interrupted by cries of " Divide," said he hoped they would not think it unreasonable in him to address the House at so late an hour, but as he had been so fortunate as to catch the Speaker's eye, he could not omit saying that he found with great regret that this motion was brought forward and supported by those who, on former occasions, op posed the further increase of the grant. They were now bringing forward a motion which would be con sidered by many of their supporters, both in side and outside of that House, as a heavy blow to Protestantism in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) it, was with deep regret that he found himself compelled to come to a conclusion which would cause him to vote in opposition to the Government on this occasion. It ap peared to him that the Ministers of the Crown were not acting is accordance with those principles which should regulate their conduct as Ministers. He could not regard the measure, as it was brought forward, as in accordance with their position.—(Loud cries of "Divide, divide.") The Crown was still a Protestant Crown, it was held on the condition of its Protestantism, and he could not see how it was consistent for Ministers of that Crown to pro pose a measure having for its object the endowment of a priesthood who would ever feel hostility to the Protestant religion, and who would, so long as they were sincere,_ and he believed them to be sincere, seek not only to discourage but to subvert Protestantism. He was also compelled to say he could not think that the Right Hon. Baronet was at all justified in adopting this course, because he took an active part in a measure of a nature somewhat similar some time ago, he meant the Catholic Relief Bill.—(Loud cries of "Divide, divide," and "Question," from all parts of the House.) In that latter; measure he (Mr. C. Bruce) took an active part, though not then in Parliament, because he was al ways in favour of toleration.—(Renewed cries of " Divide.") But he did not think that the concessions in the Catholic Relief Bill at all called upon the House for such a measure as that at present proposed.—(Cries of " Question, question.") Therefore he would say that this proposition involved a violation of principle which should be guarded against. At this late hour of the night he would not further trespass on the time of the House. —(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") But he would say he would gladly support any measure involving a system of general education for the whole population. Colonel SIBTHORP would not occupy the House for more than two or three minutes. He hoped that in future stages of the Bill he might be more fortunate iu catching the Speaker's eye than he had been that evening. He had invariably opposed the grant to the College of Maynooth, with no unchristian feeling towards that College, but from a sense of duty to that religion of which he owned him self an unworthy member.—(Laughter.) Much had been said about the restitution of property, but how would the Noble Lord opposite like his family to give up the Bedford property, which originally belonged to the Catholics of this country ?—(Laughter.) He would not have been surprised if this measure had been brought forward by the Noble Lord opposite, but he was disgusted at its having been proposed by a Pro testant Minister. One educated at Oxford, too—some time the Member for Oxford, but he thanked Oxford that he was no longer so.—(Laughter.) To this measure of the Government he (Col. Sibthorp) should give in every stage his unqualified opposition. He would not at that hour of the night discuss the measure, but he would re serve himself fora future occesion. Uporf every stage of it he would oppose this detestable measure—detestable in every light and in every shape.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. SHELL rose amidst loud cries of " divide, divide," and " adjourn, adjourn." He said that only one Irish man had addressed the House during the present dis cussion, and he thought he had a kind of title.—(A par tial cry of " Adjourn" was raised, followed by a more general one of " Go on," in which Sir R. Peel and Sir J. Graham were observed emphatically to join.) He felt at that hour of the night that it was too late to go on.— (" No, no," " go on," and " adjourn.") He found it difficult to go on at that hour, but if it was the pleasure of the House, though ho was in a state of health which made it difficult for him to go on, he would pro ceed.—(" Go on," " go on," and "adjourn," " adjourn.") He certainly would yield to the injunctions of the majo rity,land would " go on. —(Cheers.) And when lie said he would go on, the House would remember that it was his fatality to be compelled to " go on " at such an hour. He gave his entire—his unqualified approbation to the measure proposed by the Right lion, Gentleman, and he thought that measure was, if possible, enhanced in value by the spirit with which it was pro pounded,—(Loud cheers.) He bad no doubt that one object was uppermost with the Right Hon. Gentleman. —(Hear,•hear.) As in the Dissenters' Bill he bad-but one object, so in this measure he had but one object — the interest of both countries.—(Cheers.) And he trusted that, as he would in return meet the thankfulness of the one, so in future tranquillity, when clamour passed away, he would meet with honourable appreciation from the other.—(Loud cheers.) He attached great value to the measure for many reasons—not only on account of the liberality of the largess con ferred, but also because it substituted a perma nent legislative endowment for an annual Par liamentary donation, and thus avoided what all concurred in considering was desirable to avoid—the periodical recurrence of theological dieputation.—(Hear, hear.) This would give, to use an Irish phrase, "fixity of tenure to Maynooth," and he would state his opinion, as reference had been made to the ulterior measures that might be in contemplation by the Right Hon. Gentle man, at the hazard of occasioning dissertation and criticism in Ireland—that, though they might not attempt to take the Roman Catholic clergy under their care, they ought to take the Catholic worship under their protection.—(Cheers.) He thought that an honourable distinction, without any degradation to any party, between the Church and State could be effected —a relation in return for which they should expect, on the part of the Roman Catholic clergy, no ignominious complaisance.—(Hear, hear.) He was satisfied that the Roman Catholic clergy would reject any stipend periodically paid at the Castle, at the plea sure of the Government—(Hear, hear.); but there could be no objection raised against building Roman Catholic places of worship, and glebe houses for the Roman Ca tholic clergy, without requiring from them any condi tions for the favours conferred upon them, thus making them independent, giving them a true conservative interest—he used the word in its general etymology —in maintaining the institutions of the country, and they would reap the benefit of the result.— (Loud cheers.) He would not go into the history of the • origin of the grant to Maynooth ; but every person knew that Edmund Berke, to whom his Honourable Friend behind him had alluded, was the man who suggested that Maynooth should be established.—(Hear. hear.) He saw that French prin ciples and French morals should not be amongst the imports of Ireland. He perceived that a French educa tion and a French fraternisation would be the con ductors between France, and the Gallo-Hibernian establishment in Ireland would not be for the benefit of the State.—(Cheers.) That was the origin of Maynooth, and the Right Hon. Baronet was only carrying out the principle of Edmund Burke. It was said that the mo dern Catholic priest was inferior to the old one ; but Farquhar, the Irish dramatist, who was well acquainted with his countrymen, drew a portrait of one, in which the peculiarity of the Irish priNt was drievn. It should be reeollected that the Irish priest was sidug gling for Catholic emancipation against tithes, for rau ntcipal reform, for the Registration Bill—for God's sake let them have the Registration. Bill in the spirit in which this measure was enacted. if they wanted it to be final.—(Cheers.) Let them give an interest — an interest he would say to the Roman Catholic clergy, and a perfect reconcilement would take place.—(Hear.) So much had been said about a contract, and its exist ence was demonstrated with so much clearness, that it was hardly necessary for him to say a word upon the subject.—(Hear.) The Learned Recorder for London had indeed denied it—but his Court was not a Court of equity, and though he spoke against the Ministers, he accompanied his observation with a recom mendation for mercy. But this was a measure which was not to be viewed in a small forensic, or scholastic spirit, but in a spirit of equity and justice. What was the objection to it? 9,0001. was already annually de voted to the purpose. The country had already under gone great change since this grant was made, and in considering the policy of the measure before the House they should recollect that sigreatmetamorphose had taken place, and that no country had, in so short a time, undergone so 'great a change, social, moral, and political. When Maynooth was founded there were only three millions of Catholics, now there were seven. When Maynooth was founded there were only two Catholics at the bar, now there had been a Catholic Chief Baron, a Catholic Master of the Rolls, and four Catholic Attorneys-General. When Maynooth was founded there was no Catholic member of any corpora- tion, now Catholics had a preponderance incorporate bodies. When Maynooth was founded few Roman Ca tholics were educated, now the great bulk of the people were receiving education. And when men were taught to read, and write, and count, they would soon learn to think ; and if the whole body of the people were en the advance, ought the Catholic clergy to remain stationary? A great revolution was taking place, and with it the great Catholic Church must be carried on. Will this measure benefit you ? Yes, because it will benefit us ; for whatever benefits you confer upon us, you will reap the benefits of. An establishment would be founded where genius would be allured by legitimate remunera tion, and all those odious habits which parsimony caused at Maynooth, would be done away with. If they edu cated the priesthood in a proper manner, and placed in every district a gentleman in mind, as well as a scholar in education, whose disposition had undergone a process of refinement, they would do much for the country. The objects of this measure had been gone through, and its utility demonstrated. The Right lion. Gentleman the Recorder for London had talked about the profanity of educating laymen and clergymen in the same seminary. He differed from the Right Hon. Gentleman. In every country on the continent the Roman Catholic clergy were educated in ecclesiastical seminaries quife distinct from the laity. Their ascetic habits—their habits of su bordination—their absence of all sensual indulgence, indispensable to the formation of the Catholic priest, could not be had in a mixed seminary of this sort. In Trinity College, Dublin, he was satisfied at least that four years out of the time of the course was not passed in a manner the best adapted as a preparation for the confessional. The priesthood of Ireland were now moral. This could not be denied. They were not only pure, but unsuspected. Some peo ple said that Maynooth presented nothing but rusticity, where every individual brought his quota of contami nation. That was a mistake. He did not wish to see the sons of the Catholic aristocracy entering the Church. The duties of the Irish priesthood were such, that men trained in habits of luxury would not be very fit to perform them; and besides, they should remember that some of the greatest ornaments of the Church were men humbly born. Nature, as well as fortune, conferred a nobility. Before the Reformational? mighty plebeians stood up, and in the presence of the Norma Conqueror, with the crozier turned aside the lance.—(Cheers.) Was not that a circumstance that redounded great credit to the Protestant Church, that men of the humblest birth might be raised to the bench of Bishops, and take a seat in the House of Lords—a Wolsey taking precedence of an Earl Marshal of England. With respect to the cost, there was great economy—great housewifery. They did not complain of the expense of the State prosecutions, nor of the expense of maintaining a great military force there or a large constabulary. They should educate a moral police of which they would soon find the benefit. Something b ud been said about idolatry. It was inconsistent with their' consciences to propagate an untruth, but was it inconsistent with their consciences to make an annual grant ;for the maintenance of Catholicity in the colonies?—(Hear.) 26,0001. in the estimation of those Gentlemen was a venial sin, but 9,000/. for Maynooth was a mortal sin.— (Laughter.) Such was the casuistry of Kent.—(Re newed laughter.) When they saw the Catholic religion subsisting as it had done since the establishment of Chris tianity, resuscitated in countries where it was supposed to be extinct,' traversing the whole world, immortal and immutable, it was not with feelings of resentment, but with feelings of love that he had listened to the speech of the Hon. Member for Kent. There was no reason for these attacks on the Catholics. He would not enter into any argument with those baneful allies 9f darkness, who with that horrid sophistication which rendered men the plague among their species, because the ene mies of human hope, the obliterators of light, and the messengers of despair. The Roman Catholic Church had been represented as a failure compla, but he would assert, for the honour of that Church, that its mighty influence had for ages been actively at work in the amelioration of manners, the exaltation of intellect, and the promotion of that refining principle which freed mankind from the debasing influence of this lower earth, and left them to follow the natural elevation of their higher nature. In this respect, at least, the Catholic Church had borne salutary fruit. Was there any man who dared to say that the condition of the country had not been improved by the exertions of the Roman Catholic priesthood? With these facts before them, he did not think that any Government had the right to grcund public legislation on the convictions for personal theology, and he believed that to act upon this prin ciple would be to degrade those lofty maxims of policy on which an empire like this ought to be governed. If they would look at the position in which the country was placed, they would find a sufficient answer to all the objections which had been urged in the consideration of this question, and so great did he deem the position of the Prime Minister of England, that he thought that all that was little and insignificant might well be disre garded, and nothing but what was great, noble , and la rge ought to enter into his contemplation. If they w ould but look at the British empire they would see an island contiguous to their own, in which they wouhldfinand every principle developed which was ennoblin g nature—a country whose history. was full of deeds de w ed o s ul o d f lofty heroism and determined p..inciple. T hey endured.ot others, They the would see a country filled with chivalrous men, whose world nd a host heart beat with sympathies as deep, as generous, as active as their own. They would see a country rich in resources and teeming with fertility, and whose manifold advantages must prove of inestimable advantage to the whole empire. They would see such a spectacle as would elevate their ideas of all that was great and exalted, and the aspirations of which were worthy respect, if ever anything was worthy of consideration and respect. He would there assert al e that the policy of G o lgdl v a,i3 e dun r n uagsnbl m ardonp e ntdrlleg,t Ireland ought predilection. incindti huvrne 0. this trusted eathetsa t du o vreteh b taoo e tf Eng landdtahpirepercgedtrceeoidaajttbueyAs p cn e eei r tut o eos n rt Ire rol ice finli ksmintdlenefsrsomand tho co se nc w il h ia o ti r o r n ofe m as ig e h d t to tu fo r u n nd wi a t l h l t a h ( e l i i r sd a a p i p n r f o u - 1 bation on motives of mere political expediency. Let not the maxims of Government be founded on the principles of a small philosophy, and he would advise the Right Hon. Baronet to fling the seals of office to the winds, rather than not proceed in the path of honour and justice to that hourne which was the consummation of his bright est hopes—(Loud cheering.) Mr. DUNCOMBE said that he should oppose this grant on three grounds—first, on its permanency ; se cond, on the sources from whence it was to be derived ; and third, the purposes to which it was to be applied. On the same principle that he had opposed church rates, should be vote against this grant. They first of all plundered the Irish Boman Catholics of their revenues, and then by way of reprisal they took it out of the pockets of the English people,_ and yet the Noble Lord called this restitution.. When they looked to the sum of money which the• people of England had paid to the landholders of Ire land—when they looked to the millions of money paid; to the tithe owners, he could not allow them futile" to• put their handsinto the pockets of the people of Englmiii —he could not consent to this vote. Lord ARUNDEL expressed his gratitude as a Ca tholic of England for the measure of the Right lion. Baronet. Mr. GROGAN opposed the measure of the gigiat . Hon. Baronet. The Committee then divided, when the numbers were — For the resolution Against it Majority for Ministers — 102 The resolution was reported, and the following Bill " to amend two Acts passed in Ireland for the better education of persons professing the Roman Catholic re ligion, and for the better government of the College esta blished at Maynooth for the education of such persons, and also an Act passed in the Parliament of the United Kingdom for amending the said two Acts," was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Friday, the 11 th of April. The House then resumed. Captain PECIJELL moved fnr copies of several re ports relating to the late trial ..,.aises of her Majesty's ships Queen, Caledonia, St. Vinc , :qt, Camperdown, Albion, Espiegle, Daring, Flying Fish, Mutine, Water witch, Pantaloon, Osprey, and Cruiser.—Agreed to. Mr. E. ELLICE moved for a Select Committee to in quire into the practical operation of the Acta 2 and 3 Vic., c. 42, 5 and 6 Vic., c. 67, and 7 and 8 Vie., c. 34, so. far as the regulation of assessment in counties and burghs is concerned. _ Mr. HAWES said he hoped the Lord-Advocate would attend in his place to-morrow, as it was his intention to ask him a question with regard to the manner in which a clause, of an unusual description, was carried in the Scotch Consolidation Bill. The LORD-ADVOCATE intimated his intention of doing so. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the Bill relating to the Excise auction duties be read on Monday, when he would bring forward a mo tion for the repeal of those duties. The House then adjourned at twenty minutes to Two o'clock. PARLIAMENTARY DIVISIONS. ( From the Vo!es and Proceedings of the House of Commons.) w.. 3 DAY, APRIT YOOTII COLLEO3 L(TY THE COMMITTEZ.) M3LioAL maize, anti Qll2 tlOll " Taat the Chairtneet be tiireAfd to niove the House, that leave be given to bring ja 4 Bill to anr• - -e tho Acts - ,elating to' the Col go of Maynootti." ras Co-a2mlttct divided :--1 l'akington, J. S. Palmerston, Viscount Parker, John l'utton, J. W. 1'eelx•11, t'aptain Peel, Sir:lt. Peel, Jonathan R. • Pilot, Praed, W. T. . - I'ringle, Alexander PitLsford, Robert l'usey, Philip Itawdon, Colonel - Renton, U. W. J. Mice, 1•:. R. Roebuck, J. A. Round, John Rous, Captain Russell, Lord .1. 'ussell, Lord E. Russell, Charles Russell, .7. I►. W. /tutherfuni, A. Sandon, Viscount Scott, Robert Seymour, Sir H. Shell, R. 1.. Shelburne, Earl Smith, J. A. Smith, T. 11. C. Smythe, tleorje Somerset, Lord (1. Somerton, V imeount. Somerville, Sir W. Sotherun, T. 11. Staunton, Sir G. Stewart, John Stuart, Lord J. Stuart, W. V. Strickland, stir U. Strut t, Edward Sutton, Ileury Tattered, H. W. 'rennent, .7. E. Thornely, Thomas Towneley, John Traill. Geor.te . .Treuch, Sir F. W. Trevor, t). IL. Tablell, Henry Taite, 11. M. Vane, Lord H. Villiers, Charles Villiers, Viscount Wall, C. B. Warburton. H. Ward, H. G. Wawa, J. T. Wellesley, Lord C. Williams, William Wllshe re, W. Wood, Colonel T. Wonky, Lord Wortley, John 8. Wynn, C. W. W. Wyse, Thomas Yorke, E. T. Yorke, H. R. TELLERS. Daring, Henry Young, John MAJORITY-AYES, 216. Arland, Sir T. D. Et wall, Ralph .](land, 'l'. D. Fergie:on, Sir R. A. Ad are, Vise.mit litzmaiiriee, W. Adderley, C. B. Flower, Sir J. Ainsworth. Peter Forster, Matthew Ablaut, William Fremantle, Sir T. Alliml, Viscount French, I. Arundel, Earl Gaskell, J. M. Baillie, Colonel t;ilison, Milner' (laird, William I b irth in, Captain Baring, F. T. lion., Montague Baring, Thomas (lore, Robert Baring., W. It. Goullinni, henry Barnard, E. G. 11;raliain, Sir J. Barrington, ViscOunt Granger, T. C. Bellew, R. 31. ' Grey, Sir George Bentinek, Lord G. Guest, Sir J. Blandford, Marquis Hamilton, W. J. Itchier°, 11. G.: llamilton, Lord C. I ton liwiek, l'eter Ilarrourt, (;. G. Bottleld, Iterlah Hatton, t'aptain Bowes, John Ilawes, Benjamin Bowles, Admiral : I leneage, G . 11. W. Bowring, Dr. Herbert, sidne3 - Brainston, T. W. Hervey, bird A. Brotherton, Joseph Hill, Lord 31. Browne, W. Hogg, J W Brownrigg, J. S. Holland, Robert Bruce, Lord E. Hope, Charles Buller, Charles Hope, G. W. Buller, Edward llouldswortli, T. Busfeild, William Howard, C. W. Butler, P. S. Iloward,‘E. G. 11311 g,, G. S. Ilowick, Viscount Campbell, Sir IL! Hutt, William Cardwell, Edward Ingestrie, Viscount Carew, It. S. James, Sir W. C. Carew, W. H. P. Jennyn, Earl Carnegie, Captain Jocelyn, Viscount Cavendish, C. C. Johnstone, Sir J. Cavendish, G. 11. Labouehere, henry Chapman, B. Lamhton, If. Childers, J. W. Laseelles, W. S. Clay, Sir W. Lemon, Sir C. Clayton, R. It. Lennox, Lord A. Clerk, Sir George Lincoln, Earl Clifton, J. T. Listowel, Earl Cobden, Richard Loch, James Cockburn, Sir G. Lowther, Sir J. U. Colborne, W. It. Lynn, George Colebrooke, Sir T. :Uncanny. T. B. Collett, John Mackinnon, W. J. Collins, William Macnamara, Major Coote, Sir C. H. M'Geachy, F. A. Corry, Henry M'Neill, Duncan : Cowper, W. F. Mangles, R. D. Craig, W. G. Manners, Lord J. Crippa, William March, Earl Dalmeny, Lord Martin, John Darner, Colonel Martin, C. W. Dawson, T. V. Mines, R. M. D'Eyncourt, C. T. Mitcalfe, Henry Dickinson, F. 11. Mitchell, T. A. Dlvett, Edward Morison, General Dodd, George Murray, Alexander Duncan, Viscount Napier, Sir C. buncombe, A. Neville, Ralph Dundas, Admiral Nicholl, John Eastnor, Viscount Norreys, Lord Ellice, Rt. Hon. E. O'Conor, Don Emlyn, Viscount Ord, William Escott, Biekham Oswald, Alexander Esmonde, Sir T. Paget, Colonel. MINORITY-NOES, 114. Ackers, James Du Pre, C. G. Maclean, Donald Acton, Colonel Eaton, R. J. ' li`Taggart, Sir J. Allix, J. P. Egerton, Sir P. Mainwaring, T. Antrobus, Edmund Ellin°, Edward Marton, George Archdall, Captain Entwisle, William Mastennan, John Ashley, Lord Farnham, E. B. Maunsell, T. P. Bagge, William Fe'en, W. Maxwell, J. P. Bankes, George Filmer, Sir E. Morris, David Baskerville, T. B. Ffolliott, John ; Mundy, E. M. Bateson, Thomas Forman, T. S. Neeld, Joseph Beckett, William Fox, S. L. Newdegate, C. N. Beresford, Major Fuller, A. E. Newry, Viscount Blackstone, W. S. Gore, W. R. O'Brien, A. S. Bouverie, E. P. , Gore, W. R. 0. Packe, C. W. Bradshaw, J. Goring, Charles Palmer, Robert Brisco, M.l Greenall, Peter Palmer, George Broadwood, H. Greenaway, C. Pollington, Viscount Bruce, C. L. C. Gregory, W. H. Rendlesham, Lord Buck, L. W. Grogan, Edward Richards, Richard Buller, Sir J. Y. Hamilton, J. H. Round, C. CI, Burroughs, IL N. Hamilton, G. A. Ryder, G. D. Chetwode, Sir J. Hampden, Rena Sanderson, Richard Ctristopher, R. A. Harmer, Sir J. Sibthorp, Colonel Codringlon, Sir W. Harris, Captain Smith, Abel Cole, 11. A. Bristle, Archibald Smyth, Sir H. Colquhoun, .1. C. Henley, J. W. Spooner, Richard Colvile, C. It. Hepburn, Sir T. B. Stuart, Henry Compton, Y. C. Hillsborough, Earl Taylor, Edward Copeland, Alderman Ilindley , Charles Tollemache, John Darby, George Hodgson, F. Turner, Edmund Deedes, William Jolliffe, Sir W. Tumor, Chriatopher Denison, E. B. Jones, Captain Tyrrell, Sir J. T. Dick, Quintin Kemble, Henry _ . Verner, Colonel D'lsraeli, B. Knight, F. W. ' Vyv) an, Sir R. Douglas, Sir H. Law, C. E. Waddington, H. S. Douglas, J. D. S. Lefroy, Anthony Wyndham, Colonel Duncan, George Lockhart, W. TELLERS. Duncombe, Thomas Long, Walter Inglis, Sir It IL puncombe, 0. Mackenzie, T . Plumptre, J.:P. COURT CIRCULAR. The Queen and Prince Albert visited - her Majesty the Queen Dowager yesterday at Marlboroug h House. Colonel rbuthnot and Colonel Bouverie, the Equerries in Waiting, attended on horseback. Her Majesty and his Royal Highness N iTre received at Marlborough House on alighting from their Parks - - .tv and Prince Albert rode on horseback in the Her Majb...:.Hamilton, Ma id carriai.7 by Sir Andrew Barnard. Equerries in Waiting. . yesterday, ... qttended b y o the Hon. Miss . 'owls Arbuthnot and Bouve rie, of Honour in Waiting, and Their Royal Highnesses • thet--... ~ N,..._ . ft • -ince " of Wales, the Princes s ken a drive yesterday Royal, and the Princess Alice, were in an open carriage and four, accompani 1 by the Dowager • :• e Alfred was Lady Lyttelton. His Royal Highness F r y taken an airing in the royal gardens yesterday. Colonel Bouverie has relieved Major-General) Sir 1, -. 2:ar_ a ci Bowater in the duties of Equerry in Waiting on his B OY Highness Prince Albert. .h e Countess Her Majesty and Prince Albert, attended by A butb of Charlemont, the Earl of Hardwicke, and Colonel' --r-,,„00 not, honoured the Haymarket Theatre with the ir p x,"— , yesterday evening. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge visited her MajeFty the Queen Dowager yesterday at Marlborough House. Her Royal Highness the Grand Duchess Stephanie, of Baden, visited her daughter, the Marchioness of Douglas yesterday, at her residence in Connaught Place. Sir Witham C. Ross, R.A., had the honour to attend on the Queen yesterday by her Majesty's command. A deputation from the Coal trade, on the subject of enlarg ing the Coal Exchange, consisting of Messrs. R. Bantam, James Holl, George Smith, John Hill, and Wm. Horne, had an interview with Sir George Clerk yesterday, at the office of the Board of Trade. Captain Taylor had an interview with Lord Stanley yester day, at the Colonial Mice. A meeting of the Commissioners for the government of Pentonville Prison was held in the Council Office yesterday (Thursday) afternoon. The Commissioners present were— Lord Wharncliffe, the Duke of Richmond, the Earl of Devon, the Earl of Chichester, Major Jebb, M r . C ran f or d, an d M r . Russell. Mr. Spottiswoode had an interview with the Earl of Dal housie 37esterday, at the Board of Trade. Mr. 13. Hawes had an interview with the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday, at his official residence in Down ing. street. Mr. F. Pollock and Mr. Wilsnn had interviews with Lord Stanley Yesterday. Lord Wharncliffe, Lord President of the Council, has ar rived in town from Brighton. The Earl and Countess of March arrived at their residence in Chisham-place on Wednesday, for the season. The Right lion. Andrew and Mrs. Rutherford arrived at Farrance's Hotel on Wednesday, from Edina rgh. Her Majesty has graciousl r donation of 50/., to the Artists' Genczs..; . whose anniversary dinner 1 , 7 - 5 t - i3turday, the 19th inst., when the lbere will preside. DRURY-1.415E TH7' :,•eat impicsnon created by the perfor-. - .e Duprez last ycar have led to his present er b 'cent, which comL;ences, we tiod c on Monday next. The extraordinary rerttation enjoyed by this eminent a) tisk, throughout the .intire continent, is. fully sustained by the extraordinary geniu' be possesses, which has so long and eo completely deve loped itself both on the French and Italian stages, ay.d which was last year equally manifest in his performances at this theatre. THE WRECK OF THE JOHN KNOB. The : above ship, lost on the Goodwin Sands a short time since, has entirely disappeared from the surface. Divers hive been employed lately in surveying her position. A-voltaic battery was set to work . at the beginning of this" week, and a six-pound canister of powder fired, which blr up part of the lower•deck. A parcel of twh - nt.v pounds was laid down, but failed, owing t 9 it wet before it could be exploded.. I TUE: SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 4 1845.