The Sun. — London, England, 1845-04-29 00:00:00

testant foundations and the Protestant constitution of the coun try, that they should not be assailed from the only quarter to which those concessions had been made. He thought he did not mistake the Right Hon. Baronet wheat he said that he had held out expectations of the fullest and most distinct character:toihe people of this country that he would determinedly adhere to the fundamental articles of the union, which pre served her revenues not only to the English church, but ex tended the same to the united churches of England and Ireland, and which covenanted to extend the same privileges and per manency for ever to the national Scottish Church. He did not rise to make these remarks from any invidious feelings, for none could exceed him in sentiments of respect and sincere admira tion for the Right Hon. Baronet. In the removal of the Roman Catholic disabilities he (Mr. Law) had given the Right Ho nourable Baronet full credit for his avowal that he had removed these disabilities because he thought such a course would strengthen the Irish Protestant Church instead of weakening it, neither did he doubt the sincerity of the intentions with which he had brought forward this unhappy scheme. He regretted that the Right Hon. Baronet had not at an earlier period divulged his scheme of Irish academical education. If the grant had been withdrawn altogether from the College of Maynooth he should have been happy to assist in any arrange ment founded on just and equitable principles, by compensa tion or otherwise, to satisfy the parties interested in that ar rangement. He had no ungenerous feelings towards the Ca tholics of Ireland. On the contrary, for every shilling with drawn from the College of Maynnoth, he should have been happy to have given them fourfold. If they avowed that agi tation could not be put down by force, and that they must have recourse to concession, he (Mr. Law) would ask how they could come to any other conclusion than that the power would no longer rest with the Right Hon. Baronet to "grant or to withhold further conces sions? If they admitted this principle, it was the first fatal step taken to educate all the Roman Catholic priesthood, at the expense of the State. When they knew that there was no tax imposed in this country for the education of ministers of the Established Church—when, instead of Church extension, they found the slaughter of bishoprics—was it not too much that when they saw Protestant endowments—sees well endowed and in their favour the affections of the country—was it not too much that the national Church should be deprived of its bishoprics, and a sum larger than their revenues, by this proposition, granted to the education of the Ro man Catholic priesthood in the College of Maynooth ? He felt that it was impossible they could rest here if this prin ciple were conceded. He did not say that the measure in terms and expressly provided for the endowment of the Catholic Church from the revenue of the State, but if the House acceded to it they could not, at a future time, object to a proposition for the ,permanent endowment of that Church. He, therefore, looked upon this Bill as the last battle field of the British Protestant constitution.—(Hear, hear.) The petitions which had been poured upon the table had been disregarded, but he thought that those who had so much con fidence in the possible duration of that Parliament for two years to come, as to treat in such a manner these whom they professed themselves to represent, would find themselves mis taken.—( Hear, hear.) All that he (Mr. Law) had observed was conclusive to him that, although the motion of the Hon. Member for Sheffield had failed the other night, confiscation would be again recommended.—(Hear.) The motion of the lion. Member for Sheffield had been defeated by a majority very singular in its elements. It was composed to a large ex tent of those who had reason to complain of the course which the Right Hon. Baronet had taken in respect to the principles in which they had heretofore supported him, and who stepped in at a critical moment to save him from degradation—if it were possible for so high a character to be degraded.—(Hear, hear. and a laugh.) He (Mr. Law) was sure that whenever the Church was threatened, and the Protestant foundations of the empire were in danger, the old supporters of his Right Hon. Friend would rally round the Right Hon, Baronet, who, with such troops, had so often conducted them to victory. In making these observations, he assured his Hon. Friend that he had no doubt of his sincerity.—(Oh, oh, and a laugh.) Although his (Mr. Law's) proposition was adistinct negative to the resolution, still he could have well understood a pro position to have been brought forward for the endowment of Maynooth, in which it might be consistent in him to concur. No doubt the professors of the College had some right to ex pect that for their lives at least the grant would be continued. Ile would say. give them such a grant freely, liberally, and generously.—( A laugh.) But then it should be said, at the same time, that from this moment all connexion between the State and your College, as an ecclesiastical foundation, must terminate.—( Hear, and a laugh.) But he would join with his Right Hon. Friend in the establishment of lay foundations, strictly so, where Christians of all denominations would receive education, and have open to them alike the prizes of merit, and the treasures of science and literature. But this measure had raised another Catholic question, under more painful cir cumstances than ever had been agitated before. He was sure that a majority of the petitioners who had agreed in the uni versal prayer against this grant would support a measure for the general education of the population of Ireland. .--( Hear, hear.) He would have the Irish lan guege taught to every class of the Irish people—h gh an d low.--( A laugh.) It had been said that the Bill was o c t a ee -maeent endowment, and that the Act could be repealed. Why so could the reformation be reviewed, and the Act of Union or the Act of Settlement be repealed. But he would say more of this grant—that it conferred upon the trustees of 3laynooth a saleable interest.—( Hear, hear.) Instead of being a measure of conciliation, it would only be food for fresh agita tion.—( Hear, hear.) Now ho fur one denied the right of any Minister to convulse the ceustry by such means.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon, Gentleman concluded by moving that the report should he read that day six months. Mr. VERNON SMITIi had imagined, when he read the I - lon. Gentleman's notice, that he meant to raise some ques tion as to the source from which the money was to be received, but, after all. the Honourable Gentleman had merely recom mended that the grant should be withdrawn, and the sustenance of the College left to the voluntary contributions of the Catho lies themselves, although for fifty years they had taken no measures for that purpose. The Hon. and Learned Gentle man had said, on his reputation as a lawyer, that the trustees would have a saleable interest in the grant ' • but he (Mr. Smith) would like to know what the value of Maynooth shares would be in the market ?—(A laugh ) He thought that lion. anti Right Hon. Gentlemen around him had not acted in this matter in the wisest manner. He thought they had been too readily captivated with the apparent liberality of the grant, an I that they had pledged themselves to the support of the Covernment before they had considered to what they were led. More friends had been sacrificed on the Opposition side than on the Ministerial, on this duration, and he did not think they ought to have run such risks for such a mea,ure.-- ( Bear, hear.) There were two monstrous evils in the eccle siastical affairs of Ireland—one was, the state of the Pro testant Church a; it existed, and the other the state of the Roman Catholic Church as it existed. He did not know which was the greater evil. He did not know whether the Church of the State was too much overpaid, or the Church of the people was too much underpaid. But he thought it would have become the Liberal party in that House to have first con sidered what they were doing before they gave their support to this measure.—(Hear, hear.) They ought to have consi dered whether it would not be possible to reduce the Church of the State so that it should not be so offensive to the people. The Protestant Church in Ireland was a deformity and an eye sore to the people of England. It was indefensible in its pre sent condition, and there was no statesman in Europe that would not regard it as such. He thought some bold, decisive, and coneiliatory line of policy towards Ireland should have been adopted, and if so the bugbear of "No Popery" would not have been raised. The " bit by bit" reforms in religion were pernicious, whilst the same sort of reform in politico might be desireable. As regarded the principle involved in the measure, it had been over and over again recognised by the Legislature in providing religious instruction and educa tion for our colonies. To urge the foolish argument that what was done in the colonies should not be done at home, resembled that sort of argument used by the woman who was accused of connubial infidelity. She boldly alleged that the faux pas was committed beyond the Cape. His reason for wishing to endo v the Catholic priesthood was, that it would give them an interest in the welfare of the empire. He would wish to see the Catholic clergy independent of their flocks, so that when a discontented feeling was prevalent they might tell their flocks, , s we will not join with you—our breed no longer depends upon your caprice —the State is inclined to be just, and we will stand by it," and, on the other hand, if the State was oppressive, they might say to it, ‘' we will no longer accept of your money—we will again throw ourselves on our faithful flocks for support." He must admit that this was the first time that Parliament had voted money for education with out inquiring what the nature of that education would be. He would support the measure as a new measure and as a new Bill, because he thought it was the index of a better line of policy towards Ireland. The Maynooth measure was, after all, a poor thing. Much had been said about the lavourable manner in which it had been received in Ireland, but he owned he could not place much reliance on that sort of disposition which we were told, by one post, denounced Sir Robert Peel, and that, if he came to Ireland, even Majesty itself would hardly protect him, and by the next post that the Conciliation hall resounded with cheers for Sir James Graham. He did not see how the improved mode of education in May nooth could favourably influence the minds of the Catholic clergy in Ireland towards the State—( Hear)—if nothing snore were to be done for them; on the contrary, he thought that after having received an expensive and elegant education, they would feel the difficulties of entering upon the duties of a poor parish much more keenly. The Right Hon. Baronet would be highly culpable if, after raising so fierce a " No Popery " cry, and after stirring up so much bigotry, he did not persevere in this course of conciliation, and bring in large, comprehensive and healing measures for the Catholics of Ireland. His reason for voting for the grant was, that though he considered it a small measure it had achieved two great ends—it had terminated the religious question as regarded the Legislature, and established the precedent of Roman Catholics receiving State money for their Church. He would not re proach the Right Hon. Baronet with inconsistency, though he thought it would have been a great saving of his political repu tation, if he had in 1829 retired from the Cabinet and allowed others to carry it. Sir ROBERT PEEL—But would you have carried it if you had not left office ? Mr. VERNON SMITH—The Right Hon. Baronet might have come down as an individual Member and supported the measure, which would have been much more decorous. He hoped, however, that in giving his support to this measure, he might venture to hope that the Right Hon. Baronet would not atop at that ; that he would not p ro pound great principles merely for the purpo se o f e ff • lees of all opposition ecting small ends, but that fromregard less this side of the House or that, he would persevere with th ose Ireland, which would be the measures of conciliation towards the peace and prosof elost certain means of leading to that part of the United Kingdom. Lord NORRE grits'said he did not think that this mea sure b a d yet been properly sifted. The people of this country had been led by the convince th em representations they had h ear d to b elieve that the measure now before Par liament, the House f or th e f irst to been ment, in ref erence to t h e endowment of Mayno o th, m had time, instead of mea ns h av i ng been tak e n of what was the real f ac t— name l y, that it before the ' House every year for th e l ast fif ty years, and that the proposi tion now before the H ouse was really nothing more th an a re-assertion of that pri nc ipl e w i t h the detai ls carried out upon ey a more liberal and extend e d scale.—(Hear, lar person who knew anythi ng o f I re l and must know, that th E at v the r }lcman Catholic religion h a d b een, and was, and would be, the ret.,:tion of the majority of the people of that country ' and it no: therefore plain that any vote aga i nst this meas ure b e looked upon by the Iri s h p eop l e as a vote w oul d w as ainst their religion. The question appeared t o him to be regarded by those who opposed it as a question of religion or no religion. Now, though he differed from th e tenets of of the Roman Catholic faith, ha would much prefer to have the Roman Catholte religion than no religion at all.—(Hear, hear.) lie had heard it objected, too, that this proposed grant Ps.; to be paid out of the income-tax ; hut even if it were, surely so small aMU could not affect that tax. But the ab surdity of such a proposition was so plain that he would not further dwell upon it, As to the objection that had been raised to it, that this grant should not be made to the exclu sion of the Dissenters, he would beg to ask how could there for a moment be any comparison maintained between the two ? It. Ireland they had a Protestant establishment, and the Dis senters were also paid there, and yet great opposition was raised to a measure which proposed but a very small compara tive sumlor the education of the clergy of the great majority of the people of that country.—(llear, hear.) He had also heard it objected, that the Right Honour able B a ronet, who had brought forward this measure, ought to have been the last the- man in that House to have done so, upon • eroun d that it vas inconsistent with his usual course , of policy. N . ow , he (Lord Norreys) begg ed to sa y that he had been for the I.lt Aileen years a Member of that House, and, during that time, he had never heard the Right Hon. Baronet say any thing inconsistent with such a course.—(Hear, hear.) He (Lord Norreys) would ask where were now those Hon. Members of that House who used language out of that House in reference to this measure, which they had not the manliness to use within it? He should say for himself that he had never, when on the Opposition side of the House, given his vote against the grant to Maynooth, because he looke t upon such a course as unchristian, and, therefore, he would Leg to say that he would now give the proposed measure his most cordial and unqualified support.—(Cheers. ) Lord DALMENY said he intended to give his vote in favour of this measure ; and, in doing so, he wished to explain what some persons might, perhaps, term his apparent incon sistency. In his opinion, this proposed increase on the grant to Maynooth was the emanation of an enlightened ministry, and one which wouldprove most beneficial in its results to Ire land, while, on the other hand, its rejection would be attended with the most serious consequences. He could not hesitate to give his support in favour of this measure, because he looked upon it not only as one of the wisest, but most judicious pieces of legislation that had ever been passed in reference to Ireland since the removal of the Cathoiic disabilities. He had heard it said that this had been given, not so much as a boon, as an indi cation of a continued series of conciliatory measures. He quite concurred in that, for his own firm conviction was that conces sion should be continued to be made so long as a grievance re mained unredressed in that country.—( Cheers.) Some Hon. Members had said that even for this measure Ireland would not be grateful, but was it because Ireland was ungrateful Eng land should be ungenerous ?—( Hear.) But he denied that Ireland was ungrateful, for they had already seen this measure hailed with gratitude as a boon in that country.—( Hear, hear.) But even if it should not be, why had the Irish people not a right to it ? How could he consider that they had not, when he remembered how his forefathers in Scotland resisted to the death the attempt to force upon them a strange faith ? ( Hear, hear.) Much had been said about the agitation that had existed in Ireland ; but had there been none in Eng land? And why should that which had been deemed a virtue in England be termed a vice in Ireland ? Why should what was regarded as resistance to oppression here be termed tumult there • or why should love of liberty here be attempted to be put down there ?—( Hear, hear.) He would not utter one word that might be considered as partaking of partisanship, but this he would say, that if this act on the part of the Right Honourable Baronet opposite had been deemed by some as an act of epos tacy, he would say that it was an apostacy from bigotry to truth, and from doubt to consistency. And the Right Hon. Baronet now came boldly forward, resolved to stand or fall by the case he had made. out. He ( Lord Dalmeny) would not further detain the Ho than by saying, that he felt convinced that many of his conWtuents were as hostile to this measure as he was friendly to it, but he would ask, was he to think of his own private or personal interests, when those of the common wealth were at stake ? No ; on the contrary, he would say:that even if his vote upon this measure were to deprive him for ever of his seat, perish all his aspirations after ambition, rather than not act with justice to Ireland .—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Sir C. DOUGLAS, who spoke in a very low tone of voice, was understood to say, that he would support the measure. He said he could see no difference between supporting it now, and supporting it for the last fifty years, except that the pre sent measure promised to be more efficacious. They must look upon the Catholic Church as the church of the majority, and as such it was entitled to support. This was one of the reasons why he supported the t.till. He believed it would have the effect of cementing the union between England and Ireland, which it was their duty to maintain. He had pre sented petitions against this measure, and many from his constituents. He could not, however, support the prayer of those petitions, for he considered this Bill as nothing more than an honest attempt to carry nut a spirit of conciliation to Ireland. He should give the Bill his cordial support. Mr. HAWES, for one, would not take upon himself the responsibility of supporting a proposition to make the question a subject for annual discussion. He had given the present measure the fullest consideration, and he had come to the con elusion of giving it his support. Ireland was a Catholic country, and as such it must be governed. This measure was opening up a new c )ur.,e of policy in this respect to Ireland. He believed that it would lead to a great reform of the Pro testant establishment in Ireland, and that reform would cement the union between the two countries, and would give security to both. This Bill was carrying out the principle of the ap propriation clause, and he believed that the people of this country would ere long view that measure with much greater favour than they did now. As a money grant this measure was quite trifling; but he believed that it would be lsrge in its effects. An objection had been raised to this grant on religious grounds, but how such a line of argument could be supported he could not understand. This country had supported schools in India where Christianity was net professed. This country had made grants for conducting the schools of the Hindoos, and various other grants of a similar nature might be found on reference to the records of the East ledia Company. He be lieved that it was too late to olj •et to this grant on religious grounds. The grant must be poked upon as fur educational purposes. The College of Maynooth was for the education 01 both the clergy and laity. Ile could not either see how this grant was to be objected to by the advocates of the voluntary principle. He could under.. stand an objection from such a quarter, if by this grant it was proposed to better the principle, that were to be inculcated at the College of Maynnoth, but this was not attempted ' • conse quently, this grant must b e l oo k e d s p an i n t h e li g h t of private endowment, and therefore in accordance with the voluntary principle. He believed that tli's Bill was far better calculated to advance religious princi r les than any measure which had been proposed fur several yews past. On there general grounds, he should give the measure of the Got'ernment his warmest support. Mr. HINDLEY respected the sieeerity of the lion. Gen tleman who had just sat down more than he admired the argu ' merits which he had advanced. He believed that the Hon. Gentleman's constituents would not support him in the course he had taken. The lion. Gentleman said he would not sup port an annual discussion of this question. Why, this declara tion was in opposition to the principles of the Honourable Gentleman himself, formally advanced by him, with re spect to annual Parliaments. The argument against the annual grant to Mayiroath would apply as strongly if used against the proposition fur annual Parliaments. Ile did not think that he and others who opposed the measure could be accused of intolerance, for he would be as ready to oppose the endowment of the Church to which he belonged, which was not like the Church of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Dungarvon, the most numererous Church in the world, but the smallest Church in the world. He declared that he would rather vote for a repeal of the union than the present measure, because he believed that the principle in volved in this measure was of more consequence.—(Laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman the Menilwr fir Dungarvon said that, if this measure were lost, Ashton-under-Lync would be illuminated. He (Mr. Hindley) would only say in reply that he always voted for justice to Ireland in that Home, and he believed that, if justice were done to Ireland, Ashton would be illuminated for a month.—( Herr, and a laugh.) He did not think it was fair, therefore, to act:use the dissenters of England, who supported their own religion and their own ministers, of bigotry and intolerance. It was no wonder that they should feel alarmed after the declaration of the Noble Lord the Mem• ber for Liverpool, the Noble Lord the Member for London, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the illr mber for Newark. After those declarations it became a very natural question to inquire if this measure was to end in itself, or if it was to be the first of a series of measures ?—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baro net ought to be more explicit, and promulgate the scope of his whole policy with respect to Ireland.—(Hear hear.) If this measure were not to be followed up by others, then false hopes were raised in the minds of the people of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) If it were to be followed by others, then the fears of the people of England were not half as great as they ought to be.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) The Queen was to be sent to Ireland with gilt gingerbread, but the people of Ireland would indeed be children if they were satisfied with such measures as were proposed for their benefit. He would bid higher and go further than the Prime Minister to conciliate the people of Ireland, and though at the present moment they might witness repentant cries and remorse—(Cheers)—yet he and others who opposed this measure showed that they were better friends to Ireland than those who made such high professions now. He remembered, on one occasion, when the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln proposed the discontinuance of the grant of 9,0001. a year, in which he was supported by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Sligo, and the Hon. and Gallant Member for Armagh, that Mr. O'Connell said he would divide with the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln, if he pressed his mo tion to a division, for the Roman Catholic religion did not de pend on this paltry grant, and he said also that he was of opi nion that every religion should support itself, and then, in one of those flashes of wit, never surpassed even by him, he said, " Oh, those Gallant Colonels, they are the Church Militant, and, if I may venture a parody on th em , I would say—. Three colonels i n three distant counties born, Lincoln, Armagh, and Sligo did adorn, The first in gravity of face surpassed-- In jollity the next--sobriety the last. The force of nature could no further go, To beard the one, she shaved the other two. --(Much laughter.) He would beg of them not to spend their time in squabbles respecting differences of religious opinion—(lronical cheers)—but he would ask what tight had they to put their hands into the Dissenters' pockets, and call upon them to pay for an establishment while they were ready and willing and able to pay for their own religion ?—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland; always spoke in a bold and manly manner, and he was the only person who attacked the voluntary principle. Others, indeed, said it was impracticable, but the Noble Lord said it was not efficient. Now, he believed that the voluntary principle would be more practicable than the present measure. He believed that they could carry out the voluntary principle in Ireland, but they would never be able to govern Ireland as long as a dominant Church was supported for the minority. Then as to the efficiency of the voluntary principle, he would only say that 925,000/. was the amount of money paid for the maintenance of the ministers of the Dissenting bodies, and at the present tim the believed it amounted to 1,100,0001. Then for the expnses of the purchase of ground, and building and law ex penses, they subscribed a million annually, and the amount subscribed for visiting societies and for the distribution o tra :ts and other loc - al purposes, was estimated at 168,2401: Th ty also supported theological academies. By the Indepen dec ts, as far as he was able to judge, two hundred and twenty we Tsupperted at an expense of from 7,0001. to 8,4300/. The Baptists and the Wesleyan s supported similar esta blishments, and he believed that the cost of theo logical education was not less than 30,0001. per annum. He was glad that the Church of England was, to a certain ex tent, also adopting the voluntary principle. In Manchester the Church of England was able to build ten new churches by it; and in his own neighbourhood there were four or five new churches. His Hon. Friend the Member for Oxford would consent to give up the connexion of the Church with the State, and leave it to rest on the voluntary principle. He believed the Church of England would never display so much vigour as if it abandoned its crutches and walked with all the vitality and power of religion itself. The Right Hon. Gen tleman the Member for Newark said this measure was only 6d. in the pound, and that it ought to be 20s. He agreed with him in that, but he combated the prjnciple altogether of a State connexion with the Church. He thought that the ight Hon. B arone t h a d t a k en a s t e p i n th e wrong direction, and he w ou ld, t h ere f ore, g i ve the mot i on every oppos i t i on i n Mr. en hispower..—( Hea r , hear.) w l a thm. . ROUND is a Protestant saidhecould , n fr o o t m sce vc a t ly ng re i l n igio fa u , s o g u r r ou o n f dsto prev her aa s j es limited,ty 's G and ought t o h e overnment, ile extended.bel i eve d education ug i h n t A that,la fnoorotmh an improved system of edu i c i a e tir, the people would become more question whether there should be cited upon this question as a hear.) He was confident that moral and more loyal. .an union or a repeal.--( Hear, if they rejected this measure it would give an irresistible impulse rweatsursnuarentheue unreonoiffatterecrwli,tith. so rep.al.7-(Hear, hear.) lie ~ w r outd receive with a grateful nt til)er alit v. Ile did not place much confidence in the ,14 " n 'd' Ireland, the Right lion. Gennitleozanantl‘iie of l\l the Noble Lord the represe who spoke on this occasion the sen timents for Roscommon, scntative of the Howards, aristocracyer England. Re lievingteoioalf,h.and reek irin,iself, but timents of the Roman Catholic that the measure was less what the consequence might he reserving to himself the free . exercise ment respecting any ulterior measures that ! might udg brought forward, lie should give the measure of her 'la' t be Government, founded, as he thought it was, upon justie j e e , s an likely to have beneficial consequences, not a weak or unhesitat ing, but a ready and a cordial support.--( Hear, hear.) Mr. BItOTHERTON said he voted for the second reading of the measure, because he believed it likely to promote the conciliation of Ireland. He was ready to do justice to Ireland without doing an injustice to the English Dissenters. He thought that the Roman Catholics were in a peculiar position, and stood in a different relation to the Established Church from the Dissenter.—(Hear, hear.) The Dissenters had no fair claim to the Church property ; but, with regard to the Ro man Catholics, they must bear in mind that they were 7-Bths of the population—that they had been despoiled of their ecclesiastical revenues, and that they were compelled to sup port a Church,from which they derived not the least advantage. Though he wished to see the present measure, anchnore, accom plished for Ireland, he wished to see it accomplished by proper means.—( Hear, bear.) As long as be had had a seat in that House he voted for every measure which tended to conciliate or ameliorate the state of the people of Ireland. He did not think there was any very great difference between a grant of 9,0001. which existed for fifty years, and the present grant. But when he heard the Noble Lord the Member for London say that this was not merely a grant for the support of education in May nooth, but that it involved a great principle, and was the pre cursor of other measures, he was led to reflect where that principle would lead him, and to ask whether he would vote to support the establishment of another religion out of the public 'funds. But he (Mr. Brotherton) would be no party to that bigotry and intolerance, and " No Popery" cry out of doors, of which he entirely dis approved.—( Hear.) He looked upon those things with a dif ferent eye from that which the parties themselves viewed each other. He looked upon the Roman Catholics and their op ponents as one great Christian family, all of them having the same object in view. He voted for the appropriation clause, and he thought the friends of the Established Church in Ire land might be made to do all that was required. Were they now about to endow priests out of the Consolidated Fund when they had abundant resources from the surplus funds of the Church Establishment in Ireland, he should be most happy to give his support to any measure which would have the effect of producing so much good, and which would tend to promote union between two countries. Happiness and prosperity might be advanced by the Ministry altering their resolution according to the motion of the Hon. Member for Sheffield. He could not bring his mind to support a motion for a grant out of the Consolidated Fund, which might be the precursor of measures for the entire en dowment of the Irish clergy out of the same fund. Mr. P. BORTHWICK said that the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Law )gave notice that he would ask the House not to grant the money out of the Consolidated Fund, but instead of that he had submitted to the House the propriety of considering whether the resolution of the Government should not be taken tnto consideration that day six months. That was the first time that he rose to discharge a duty which presented to his mind nothing but unmingled pain, as lie was about to vote not only against a very large and extensive body of his fellow-countrymen and against a sincere, conscientious, and patriotic excitement which now laid on the table of the House so many petitions; but he was about to vote against those to whom he owed the deepest gratitude and the most profound respect. He had no personal object for supporting this measure, and, notwithstand ing the smallness of pecuniary extent that the motion covered, he believed it was the basis of a new era of prosperity, because it was the beginning of an union between Ireland and England, from which would spring the best events both for one country and the other. He was aware that great popular feeling had been excited. He had indeed heard that a celebrated preacher at Cheltenham had met an elderly lady on his return from chapel, who had asked him whether they were going totZtAild the College of Maynooth at Cheltenham, or whether it was intended thr.t the Pope should take up his residence there, and be supported by the Government. Now, he had no affiliation with the Pope ; and though he did not agree with the elderly lady, yet be at the same time thought that it was neces sary that there should be the consent of the country to a grant like this, and he thought that the consent of the country as well as of the Government ought to be obtained to a grant of this nature. They had consented to the support of the religion of the country in India ; they had consented to endow the Church of the country in India. They had consented to endow the Roman Catholic Church in Canada and Malta ; in India ; in Trinidad ; in the east ; in the west; in the north ; and in the south ; and he thought it was but talking about terms to speak of the endowment of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland. The Roman Catholic Church, so far as he conceived, fulfilled all its offices ; and he knew not why so much question should be made about the endowment of a Church against. whose principles there was but a feeble opposition, and in favour of whose policy they had the results of experience. The object of this grant was to increase the religious education of the people of Ireland. He repudiated altogether the notion that this would interfere with the religions education of the people of Ireland. He cared not for the question, for the difference between the Government, and the Roman Catholics of Ireland. He would n)t treat this as a matter between the Roman Catholics of Ireland, and the Protestants of England ; he would not consider it as a ques tion between the Government and Mr. O'Connell; but he would consider it as a matter between the Catholic priests of Ireland anti the people of this country. This was not his object. The Reformation could not properly be traced to the reign of Henry VIII., hut to the time of Wicliffe ; and he conceived that the established religion was not to be ascribed to the alteration which had been made three centuries ago, nor did he ground his opposition to this measure on any poli tical grounds.—( Laughter.) He thought that any differ ence that might exist was to be ascribed rather to the spirit of whisky, than to the spirit of reli g i ous f ee li ng, and while he expressed these feelings, he might at the same time say that his oily consideration was that which had reference to the feelings of the people of Ireland. It was not the paltry grant (526,010/. a year which was made to the people of Ireland that entered into his consideration. lie would tell the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Depart ment, that if he made a concession to this extent, he must con ceive that it would not thus stop He would not refer to the case of America which had been adduced. He would not ad duce the agitation which had been excited on this question— he would look on the result of that agitation as a fait accompli, and conceived that it would be better in no way to bring that agitation into this debate. He had put his thoughts hurriedly together—(Laughter) —and had he had mere time he might have made his speech shorter than he otherwise would have done Ile had intended to make his opposition on the second reading, but had thought it better to reserve it to this position of the question, and give his adh es i on t o t h e mot i on, t h at the motion be read that day six months. Mr. FOX MAULS rose and said, that after troubling the House at some length on a former occasion, it was with some regret that he rose at that hour, but he thought it right to notice some personal allusions to the conduct which he had thought right to follow with reference to his vote on that question. The Hon. Friend he meant had thought it right to attack him for having attended a public meeting on that sub ject, and he had endeavoured to make him responsible for lan guage spoken at that public meeting, and for resolutions agreed to there. He (Mr. Fox Meade) did not hold that parties pre sent, or even presiding at a public meeting, had a right to be held responsible for all that might be said in the heat of argu ment or in debate on a question of such prominent importance and of such great public interest ; because it was only on such occasions that individuals could give expression to their feelings on this question, and it was but excusable that strong language should be al lowed them. Was he to be responsible for the language held there, any more than he should be held responsible for the lan guage used by Hon. Members in that House ? Was he to be held responsible for the resolutions passed there, any more than for the resolutions brought before that House or the no tices of motion which might appear upon the paper ? No ; he could not be held responsible for that language or those resolu tions, but he would tell the Hon. Member for Sheffield, that if he were to put down those meetings, he would be doing a great public injury, inasmuch as those meetings had their rise in public opinion. At those places the expression of public opinion found a vent, however strong the language was in which the public expressed that opinion, he thought it better for the House at once to know and hear it. Having said these few words with reference to that point, he would now pro ceed to notice some of the arguments which had been used on the measure before the House, because in discussing the measure at present, arid in voting for the motion of the Hon. and Learned Recorder for London, he confessed at once that he voted for that motion with the simple view of putting a stop to the Government measure. The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government had stated that Hon. Members in that House had already assented to the general principle of endowments in passing the annual grant to the College of Maynootb, but he (Mr. Fox Manic) was very certain that those who consented to the measure containing the clause which enabled the parties to endow such an institution in voluntary principle, would think it very hard if, by giving their vote, they were to be supposed pledged to the general princi ple of endowments. The endowment of a seminary established solely for the education of the Irish priesthood, and what was in his opinion a still more lamentable termination, the perpe tual endowment of the Roman Catholic clergy.--( Hear, hear. ) The Noble Lord on this side of the House looked forward to that event with the most sanguine expectations—( Hear) — and the Right Hon. Baronet on the other side did not deny that such an event might Happen,—(Cheers.) But the grant was to be taken from the Consolidated Fund of the country. That fund was raised from the taxes paid by the people of this country. Now, he had heard an Honourable Member, in the course of that debate, term this a paltry sum not worth contending for. They had sufficient evidence of the generosity of the British public, in granting the enormous amount derived from the income-tax. They represented to the public that such a tax was necessary for the purpose of meeting the exigencies of the State, and of placing this country in the proud position which it had in former times maintained. The British public came forward with a generosity that eprprised him (Mr. Fox Mauls), and had no doubt surprised tfao Right Hon. Baronet also ; for they had scarcely given any opposition to his measure. Was such a generous public likely to quarrel with this sum of 26,0001., because of the munificence of the gra;.'t ? No—it was upon principle that they opposed it.—(Heal.; They quarrelled with this endowment because it was to be Carried out at their expense, and in violation of their conscientious feelings on the subject.—(Cheers.) It had been said that the "No Popery " cry had been raised against this measure. He (Mr. Fox Mule) did not know what was meant by that s word.-.-( Hear, hear, and great laughter.) Did it mean the I same thing that the .. No Pop er y " cry o f Ins did ? (Hear, hear.) He might say it did not, for that cry had been raised against the possession by Roman Catholics of the civil liberties which Protestants then enjoyed. The opponents of that measure of justice said, that if they took off the dis abilities which affected Roman Catholics, individuals of that persuasion would sit in Parliament and have power to intermeddle with the laws by which they themselves were governed. Then was raised the cry that by such a course they invaded the Constitution of the country—the No Popery cry was then directed against Roman Catholics, to pre vent their enjoying the privileges to which they were justly entitled, and the possession of which could not possibly injure the Protestant religion of the country.—( Hear, hear.) But the case was very different here. They proposed to do more now for the Roman Catholics of Ireland than they did then. Instead of merely granting them civil liberties, they now pro posed to endow the Roman Catholic seminaries. They pro posed to remove them from thesupervision of the State, and they were thus establishing a principle which would, in his opinion, lead to the final endowment of the Roman Catholic Church itself.—(Cheers.) Surely these men had a right to express their conscientious opinions upon that subject without being a n s et h th e er wo r u tg ld ht te n r o m r i s t u , hj s 'e e c r t y ed ha to d t c h ry e odofiugm,Noofptuhpisercyr.y7o, It f t w h a i s s , just to raise that objectionable term against men who acted , N s , olel o y penopceorny ” conscientious iousngorwor ashy did they not complain of ds ; but if they complained of that it at other times ?—( Hear, hear.) That cry was raised I. o f r o d r iralrd _r el be urna —raised, ,h ew Government ouid i n IsBa3y7: in a 11 its 1838,183, a ag nd ai;st so forward or;ginal purity.—(Laughter.) If that Gr,yernment spoke of m d z li b n y g l l h v e ith ,, the municipal from whom 4.id this cry ions in Irel.,^nd, they were No Popery" uni eiPa l e c r;. Baronet was a member and the leader. They (the 'Tories) proceed ? From the very party of which the Right Hon. never tried to put down this cry. They made all the use .of . it they could then, and now when they found something sinnUr against th emse l ves t h ey were t h e ver y fi rs t t o com pl a i n o f it. 1 The Right Hon. Baronet opposite had stated that he had al- Illi,e7eatd ' th h e e ways discountenanced this priseeeding. —( Hear, hear .) He (Mr. Fox Mettle) would say, that when he heard the " No Popery" R h i a g d ht ,rl. made use of against the Government to which he himself heard no disclai . mer hi f g ro r m .ei t r l e ie me ß n i t gb in t. to H o o p n i nourable Baronet ; and when he heard the other da Baronet in position gave countenance Hon. that after the to the No Popery ery, , he thought ie statements latermade by the Right Hon. Baronet, th e House had tion of the course which a right t o h ave a pu b lic explana taken oa th a t occasion, he (th e Ri g h t Hon. Baronet) had At a meeting in Glasgow the THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 20, 1845. other day, a most extraordinary statement had been made by the Rev. Dr: Buchanan—a statement which occasioned him (Mr. Fox Maule) considerable surprise, yet knowing ii , e gentleman from whom it came, and believing that he could not be guilty of any wilful misrepresentation, he had written to that gentleman,expressing his surprise at the statement which had been made, and requesting explanation of the circumstances attending it. He (Mr. Fox Maule) would, in the first place, read to the House the passage which Dr. Buchanan had quoted at the meeting to which he (Mr. F. Maule) had referred. Dr. Buchanan said that he formed one of a deputation from Scotland which waited upon the Right Hon. Baronet on the subject of Church Extension, and they were much struck by the declarations which the Right Hon. Baronet had made on that occasion. He thought it was of the highest moment that the established churches of the country should unite on the common ground of their Christian faith to resist the encroachments of Popery. It was most important, Dr. Buchanan emphatically added, to look to the statement which followed. It was important, the Right Hon. Baronet continued, that the Protestant establishments should unite at that period, when the order of the Jesuits in most of the countries of Europe, particularly in Russia and Belgium, was endeavour ing to extend its influence and establish its power; and when Popish chapels and seminaries in this country were so regu larly on the increase. He was persuaded that ere long a struggle would arise in which they would have to determine whether Popery or Protestantism should have the ascendancy. Such were the opinions of the Right Honourable Baronet in the month of May, 1838. He would now read to the House the grounds on which Dr. Buchanan defended his use of that statement. Dr. Buchanan's letter contained a confirmation of the use of the wards he used, and also contained the Doctor's justifica tion. He wrote to him in answer to a letter which he (Mr. Fox Maule) had written to him (Dr. Buchanan) in these terms :—" I have received your letter of the 15th inst. in re ference to a speech of mine delivered in our Church Synod of Glasgow, in which you express astonishment at a certain statement I then made, and request me to supply you with information relating to it. I can have no possible objection to answer your inquiries, but as you intimate your intention to make some use of my statement, you must allow me to mention the circumstances which induced me to quote from my note book. The Synod at the time was discussing a resolution against the Maynooth endowment, and while speaking on that question I had occasion to allude to the article in replying to the often re peated notion of the present day that the power of Popery, so far as this country is concerned, is at an end. On such a point I thought it important to be able to adduce the testimony of a man whom no one could accuse of religious enthusiasm, and no man could be a better witness than Sir Robert Peel, and fortu nately I had a memorandum in my possession of a remar k a bl e statement made by that Right Hon. Gentleman upon the subject which we were then discussing. lii so doing, I ventured to think 1 was not violating any principle, the state ment in question having been made not through a private indi vidual, but to an official body, and having reference solely to matters which were of an official character. The observation made by the Right Hon. Gentleman I conceive to be both true and important, and which there could be no possible reason or ground for concealing from anybody. For the accuracy of the report which you mention, I can only state that in the Scottish Guardian the quotation from my note-book is given verbatim. I can vouch for the accuracy of the words, for within a few hours time after they were spoken by Sir Robert Peel, I made a note of them. The state ment was made on the 24th March, 1838, to a deputation from the Scottish Synod on the subject of the Church of Scotland ; and many of the deputation, I have no doubt, heard the state ment, and can answer for its accuracy. As to the accuracy of my note-book, I have the most perfect confidence. Imme diately after the words were spoken I wrote them down, and read them over to some of my colleagues, who certainly were sattafied that I had taken the expressions correctly. Mr. Pringle was one of the deputation, and I have no doubt lie will attest the truth of my n o t e -b oo k." That was the statement of Dr. Bechanan—a man, as far as he knew of him (and he had known him for some time), incapable of making a misrepre sentation upon this subject. Now, he would not go upon the declaration of Dr. Buchanan alone, but he would ask his Right Hon. Friend if the statement was not correct? If it were true, what were they to think of the leader of a great party who, while in Opposition, employed these very indi viduals against measures o f this kind, and embuing their minds with feelings which raised a No-Popery cry —now, while at the head of the Government, turned round and brought forward a measure directly opposed to this feeling? He would venture to affirm that such a course was an entire subversion of alt political consistency. lie thought the Right Hon. Baronet and his colleagues might have got rid of their difficulties if they had set to work in the right way of legislating for Ireland. It would have been much better if they had tried to repair the wron g s and injustices under which Ireland had suff ere d, an d p l ace d her people on an equal footing of civil equality with the people of this country. Had they pursued this policy he had no doubt the House would cordially have agreed with them, 'and such measures would have hail a much more permanent efThct in tranquillizing the sister country, but, said the Right Hon. Baronet, this measure woul I give peace and tranquillity to Ireland, but where, he would ask, would be the use of this, if the Right Honourable Baronet left an apple of discord behind him ? If the Right Hon. Baronet had sent his conciliation to Ireland in the shape of an increased civil qualification for its people,the people of Eng land would have b een per f ect l y re ady to give him their suppo rt, for they had already admitted that they were willing to deal with Ireland so far as temporal and civil matters were considered. But by sending such a measure as this they were performing an act of conciliation, which would not have the effect of allay ing the agitation in Ireland, while on this side of the Channel it would serve to encourage and foster discontent. The answer which had been received from the people of Ireland could not lead Government to hope that their measure would have the effect of permanently averting the future results of the Repeal Association. They had been told that the measure had been forced from them—that their fears, and not their love of justice, had been the cause of Government introducing this measure. The people of England saw what the people of Ireland had got from pursuing the system of agitation, and Government might rely up n it that the English people, rather than sanction this measure, would. he believed from the bottom of his heart, become more thorough repeaters than the people of Ireland were at this mo ment. He believed, on his conscience, that the great body of the people of England, arid certainly the great majority of his own countrymen believed, that the establishment of the Roman Catholic religion in Ireland in connexion with the State would be a. most enormous evil, and rather than sanction it. they weve prepared to do away altogether with the connexion between Church and State. For his own part, he -should prefer seeing any other poli• tical party in power than the one which would submit to such a violation of coneciencer as this measure must inevitably lead to. Let the Government try some other road to confer peace upon Ireland than this measure. He did not believe that the sacrifices Government were making were not worth the result which they anticipated from it. If they gave this mea sure to Ireland there would be an end to all public credit and all confidence in the public character of the public men in that House would be sacrificed.—( Hear, hear.) He said if they passed this measure they would be doing more damage to this country than any Minister—whether the Right Hon. Baronet opposite or his Right Hon. Friend the Member for the City of London—would ever be able to remedy. Mr. PRINGLE did not intend to have offered himself to the attention of th e House, but io n. Gentleman as the Hon thatAl . e h Member could u f l or Perth had referred to of m som in e the course o w f h h ic i h s s h p a e d ec f h a , lle h n e could hardly avoid troubling th e House for a few moments. It fo h rp a oe d ma k b h e i teso the h been stated t t e( I n b o y n t he Rightaccura cy riend at the head of the Government some few years hack. It would, however, be impossible for him to tax his -memory so far as to be able to affirm the cor rectness or truth of the words which had been read to the House, but, so far as his recollection went, he believed they were nearly those used by the Right Hon. Baronet himself. He had no hesitation in saying that they contained the sincere sentiments of the Right Honourable Gentleman at the time, and it was his belief that the Right Honourable Baronet was no less sincere when be thought that this measure would greatly improve the condition of the people of Ireland. Had the Right Hon. Gentleman thought his measure would have the tendency to injure the Protestant interest of this country or place the Roman Catholic Church in the ascendancy, he was sure the Right Hon. Baronet would never have brought it forward. It was because he feared that it would have that effect, that he ventured to oppose the Right Hon. Baronet on this occasion. There was no statesman for whom he had a greater respect than the Right Hon. Baronet himself, and in all ordinary measures introduced by the Government he should have his confidence and support. Had he had any doubt upon the tendencey of the measure, he should have been inclined to have relied upon the better judgment of the Right Hon. Baronet, but he w as fully convinced , that the measu re wouldhave the effect of encouragingßomanCatholic supremacy. And he should not, therefore, be following the dictates of his own conscience if he did not oppose it. He was, moreover, fully convinced that this grant would be followed by ulterior measures, and this was an additional reason for his appearing on the present occasion as an opponent to the Government. He thought that ultimately the struggle must come, and that the time was not very distant. He did not wish to take up the time of the House, and, besides, he did not think it was very edifying to discuss questions of this nature in the House of Commons.—( Hear.) The speech of the Hun. Member for Sheffield had a tendency to provoke the discussion, b u t h e was not desirous to go into it.—( Hear. ) Neither did he wish to t le ho p se ro w v h ok o ed ditf to er s e a c y i a f n ro y m thi h n i g w inihnich rei c ig ou io l n d_hu ( r c t he the ers) tel a in of ndgs he would assure the House that towards his Roman Catholic fellow-subjects he had no feeling but kindness. —( Hear.) lie should, therefore, merely conclude by stating that those senti ments of his own which, however, he had feebly expressed, were the opinions of a large proportion of the people of this country....( Cheers. ) Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL, as an Irish Member, and an Irish Roman Catholic, was unwilling that the debate should pass over without an opportunity to him of expressing grati tude on the part of hit countrymen and so-religioniits to her Majesty's Government for the course they had taken on this ,subject.—(Hear, hear, hear.) H e wa s grateful for the candid ru :snner in which the Ministers had stated that their past poli,w could no lo nger b e ma i nta i ne d.—(Cheers.) In th a t did can avowal he saw the beginning of a better policy.— ( Cheers. ,) He believed, also, that many Members upon that (the Oppo, , ition) side of the House equally deserved his grati pemoeule)laeusrouefrse tude—( Hear,• hear)—and he particularly thanked the Noble Lord the Mem her for London for the manner in which he re sisted temptation; which none but a man of his strength of mind could resist, which some of his former colleagues were not able to rosist—(Cheers)—and bad come forward to give this measure his undivided support.—( Cheers.) The measure was valuable notwithstanding the smallness of the sum with which the Hon. Member for:Alton had taunted the Roman Catholics of Ireland. The measure was only valu able as the promise of others.—( Hear, hear.) Let him not dlcs be piofdeaut m hidkne isunderstood—h e diet not mean the promise of endowment to the Catholic Church..--(" Hear" and a laugh.) Let him borou boo t pte o ir. e sr_dHe desire (s o ni isA n trt e . eml omhtn:b): iewrreeser,i eirogerollwenofis.3oifttletedid,, ea f oum r kp o a m otjnho ertmithat Oxford—to on what ground Kn a ro 3 _ t ( Hear, hear)—For he was glad to say that the majority? - g - ro ( u H n e d a , r it h w e o a u r id ) h not l looked ed surprising fo r stwloaiyeetrhett i har f otua t ft h s : e a!, anhirrc,another endowment were demanded as a right— s I reland w such h i e h as long ago were brought under the consideration of the House all that he would wish, va s qu would i althoughry , and lose notnh oe by Mr. Smith O'Brien. There was the landlord and tenant ( w F l a s e ab question.bound d a n t ol d n time in bringing forwar h ear.) kind—they r. ) twheerem t p h o a r . h e r I li e awjeosutlyd,snGotonveorw, t hat trt e he r sem s ui rltuth h come a hf d eGtmah m os aouvatrredeerienn inquiry, Government than he eoxnpetchteedr—e t f:nie.hFfroiremme: tinno‘ ,Ariaermi bce, of the t:rn g fh, o ,eern i t tp i s t rh o heaest t effil h , nn e etol q ttis u uhl : ba s id t te i t o iatt n bo;l o yu f bt u t to h :f e .ohtu f he r ge a h.ti n rrt c u h c.sbo i t s ene e id-s- , b, who Again, as to the Established Church, which c f s o i o d r n e: r i t i a t lie House, he trusted. the Government would put it in a Oionthmore befitting a. church which was oppose to the re ligious feeling of the peop ae , were compelled to support it. --(Hear.) He trusted that Ministers would take, up all these questions without the fear of being twitted by their political opponents on the ground of inconsistency. He trusted they woad do what was right, without feeling the satire of their enemies or the deser tion of their topporters. He did not say that they would suppress the repeat agitatiim—they might still have pamphlets and speeches in favo sir of repeal, and great meetings, such as some honest men might fear, and many partisans pretend to dread. But they s i p uld recollect that there were tw o kinds of agitation,—(ll IV ? hear.) If they convinced th people of Ireland that they were disposed to do as much for Ireland as a Parliament sitting in Colleee-careen, they weel-1 take away from ayit all i claliger, a:. , 1 fr..m the all their animosity. —(Cheers. ) They would leave to the people of Ireland only this question to consider, whether a British Parliament could legislate for Ireland, when it showed the disposition ; but if this coalition between the highest of Churchmen and the lowest of Orangists were suc cessful, then indeed the ,i . agitation for repeal would be dan gerous.—(Cheers.) If friends like those round him were driven from the representation of populous places by this out cry, they would have to fear not the repeal of the Legislative Union alone, but a more fatal severance. Th e o il o f voluntaryism had been mixed up with the vinegar of "No Popery." The Hon. Member for Ashton had referred with pride to the voluntary support given to religion by the wealthy Dissenters of this country, and he had asked why the poor Catholics of Ireland could not do the same.—( Hear, hear.) It was an insult to common sense.—(Hear, hear.) It reminded him of the naive observation of Marie Antoinette when she was eating a bun, that she wondered how the people could be starving when they might buy such nice cakes for twopence.—( Great laughter.) He had given his vote for the proposition of the Hon. Member for Sheffield, because it was just ; but whatever means could be adopted for carrying out this grant, he would support them. He admired the argument of the Hon. Member for Stockport, that instead of looking upon this measure as a violation of conscience it should be re garded as doing truly an act worthy of Christians, uniting to= gether two people of different sects, who, whatever their differences, maintained the most important parts of that which all admitted as their common Christianity. Sir ROBERT PEEL said,--Sir, already on three several occasions I have had an opportunity of strting fully to the House the motives of the Government in introducing this Bill, and their general views, and of answering those ques tions which were put to me in the course of the debate, as to our ulterior objects. I think it therefore unnecessary on this occasion, to trouble the House at any length, for I think this motion the same precisely as on the second reading. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman, the Member for the University of Cambridge, avows that it is his object to defeat the measure. I think the issue, therefore, on the present oc casion is the same with that for which we contended on the secovd reading of the Bill, and that those who voted for the second reading will feel themselves under an equal obligation to vote against the proposal of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. That proposal was supported by the Hon. Member for Ashton-under-Line, who, I understand, was the organ and re presentative of a great body of public opinion in this country who are friendly to the voluntary system. Yet I was sur prised to hear, in the course of the speech of that Hon. Mem ber, this statement--that if the measure originally proposed by me was an annual instead of being a permanent grant, or if I would new consent, instead of making it a permanent to make it an annual vote, he would be prepared to acquiesce in that proposal, and grant the whole annual sum that I proposed of 26,500/.; on the other hand, if the grant was to be permanent, the Hon. Gentleman said lie would feel it his duty to contend with the utmost vehemence against it. Now, I cannot recon cile his opinion on the voluntary system with his readiness to support the annual vo t e ; an d I cannot understand how I am almost think mi vote n gain ookts etth t aoe h sf rweee2sristrong oslsupportpinotrgotei presented an onaftned to differencelant least wmearjeoritymeorf merely y os t e o n, whose ake petitions a change from permanent to annual.—(Hear, he ar .) I o i rn engagementp epointromnaonofeupnrrtilnypc—ai part unless u a a raisings nml t oe o lsignttsh e tore should be som e strong conclusive reason for the withdrawal of the annual vote—f or t h oug h the vote of 26,500/. a year should be annual, there wou ld b e, i n po i nt of fact, a virtual engage ment for its co n ti nuance li ttle less than permanent.—( H e ar. ) But I cannot consent to purchase h i s consent by making that change. I n th e fi rst p l ace, I be li eve I s h ould purchase but little support, and even t h oug h I cou ld purc h ase much, 1 would not make the alte ra ti on . I say I b e li eve t h at such a concession would quite alt er th e c h arac t er o f t h e measure i n the eyes of the people of Irel an d.—( H ear , h ear .) I b e li eve it would be considered as an i n di ca ti on o f di s t rus t, an d t h at t h e alterat i on is compl e t e ly a t var i ance w i t h t h e sp i r i t i n which we pro fessed to bring it fo r w a rd. O n th a t accoun t, Si r, i t i s wholly out of my power to con sen t t o it. I s h a ll d o a ll i n my power to prevail on the House t o p ass th e measure as a perma nent measure.—(Hear, hear_) I mus t h ope t h at w i tness i ng the feeling which now prev a il s i n thi s coun t ry , t h ere w ill b e great advantages in avo idi ng th e a b so l ute necess i ty for an annual grant. Ido firmly b e li eve th a t th e present exc i tement will subside, and th a t th e p u bli c f ee li ng i n I re l and will be much improved, fo r w e canno t d eny t h at t h e f ee li ngs of the Protestants of I re l an d w ith respect to t hi s vote i s ma terially different from th a t o f th e people of Great Britain.— ( Hear, hear.) I b e li eve th a t one o f th e great a d vantages of the vote will b e , th a t it w ill serve as a connect i ng link be tween Protestants and R oman C a th o li cs ; b ut h appen w h at may, I believe th a t, f rom th e examp l e set b y t h e great. por tion cf the P ro t es t an t s o f I re l an d , b y t h e i r wish—a w i sh which I believe i s cordially entertained by the great bulk of the Protestant body—l b e li eve I may say t h at the manifesta tion of that wi s h w ill h ave a t en d ency to a b ate rel i gious ani mosities in that cou n t r y. B u t cer t a i n l y, w h atever b e the issue of the present meas ure , I s h ou ld contemp l ate w i t h the greatest pain and regret the p ros p ec t s o f th a t annua l ag i tat i on which must be the inevitable c o nsequence o f an annua l vote .— , ( Hear, hear.) I believe that a moti on t o re p ea l th e A ct, if passed, may be brou g ht f o r w a r d i n th e next se - s i on of Parliament ; but I think that ag itati on w ill b e o f a t o t a ll y different character if the vote be made a p e r manen t one . S o much with respect to the immediate questio n un d er considera tion. Before I notice the speech of th e Ri g ht H on . Gentle man the Member for Perth, I will allude to that of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. V. Smith). The Right Hon. Gentleman referred to the events which occurred in 1829, a n d the course which I took with reference to the Roman Cath o li c Relief Bill, and the Right Hon. Gentleman repeating what he called the inconsistency of public men, referred to, as he had a perfect tight, the course which I pursued in 1829. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, with reference to my o w n c h a r ac t er an d th e character of the class to which I belong, th a t h e regretted' I did not on that occasion retire from office, at the same time that I might give my cordial support t o th e measure . I admit to the Right Honourable G en tle man , th a t th ere may b e many occasions on which it would be th e d u ty o f a p u bli c man to relinquish office rather than propo s e measu re s—m easures which would be altogether contrary to the p r i nc ipl es w hi c h he had hitherto supported. But - I think the propriety of taking that course ought mainly to depend on the effect which retirement would have on tha s ucce s s o f a public measure which he might believe to be nece s sary f or the public good.—(Hear.) I think it was p er f ec tl y f a i r an d just in my Right Hon. Friend, the late Preside n t of th e Boardof Trade, to relinquish office. The Right Hon. Gentl eman thinks I ought to have pursued the same c ourse i n 1829. Th a t is is precisely the course which I wish to p ursue , an d w hi c h I ualyth the House, great intended to pursue. I did, until within a month of the pe riod when I consented to bring forward that measure for the relief of the Roman Catholic disabilities.-1 did contemplate my retirement !from office—not because: I shrunk from the responsibility of pressing the measure—not because I dreaded the charge of inconsistency—not because I was not prepared to make a sacrifice of private friendship and political con nexions, but because I honestly believed that my retirement would promote the success of the measure which I then thought necessary—that I might assist my Noble Friend in carrying that measure were I to make a sacrifice of office, and that I might give, as I intended, a cordial sup port, in my private capacity, to that measure. But when did I change my opinion ? I changed my opinion when it was demonstrated to me that it was not necessary that I should make the sacrifice—when it was shown to me that, however humble my abilities might be, yet, considering the situation which I filled, that with my retire ment from office the carrying of the measure would have totally failed—when it was proved to me that there was opposition to it in the highest quarters, and that that opposition could not be overcome unless I was prepared to make sacrifices of much that was dear to me—when it was intimated to me by my Noble Friend that it was the intention of the highest authority of the Church of England to offer the most determined opposition to the measure—when my Noble Friend intimated to me that he thought that if I persevered in my intention to retire, success was out of the question. It was then, and not until then, that I said I will not expose others to obloquy or suspicion from which I will myself shrink. I know all the con sequences of my coming forward to propose the measure of relief of Roman Catholic disabilities ; but the moment that I was convinced that the obstruction to success would be greatly increased by retirement, then I stated that I will not sacrifice others, be the consequences what they may to myself. I will propose the measure. Sir, these are the facts of the case ; and I think I did act a more honourable part in consenting to retain office, and in proposing that mea sure. I think I took the part more honourable to the charac ter of public men than if I had said to my Sovereign and my colleagues, " You shall be exposed to the suspicion of propos ing this measure in order to retain office ; I think the measure a good one and advise the Crown to consent to it, but allow me to escape the responsibility of proposing it by retiring from public life."—( Cheers.) And now, notwithstanding the taunts thrown out against me, I repeat that, b e li ev i ng thi s measure to be of advantage to the public, foreseeing the opposition by which it would be encountered—in spite of taunts and sar casms, I again say, I think it is more becoming in me to propose this measure, and submit to the conse quences, rather than say I think it necessary, but I advise you on the opposite side of the House to come forward and expose yourselves to the obloquy of proposing it. This is the principle on which I think public men should act with respect to the retention of office ; that if I believed now my retire ment from office would facilitate the carrying this measure, I should infinitely prefer the course of relinquishing office, and supporting it in a private station. And now with respect to the reference made by the Right Hon. Gentleman to:an inter view which took place seven years since between myself and a deputation from the Free Church of Scotland. Of that inter view so imperfect is my recollection, that till my Hon. Friend ( Mr. Pringle) rose to speak and referred to it, I had not the slightest conception that he was one of the deputation. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. F. Mettle) says the interview took place seven years ago. I must say I wish that any Learned Gentleman or Rev. Divine who left the meeting in tending to make a note of what passed had given me the op portunity at the time of saying whether my recollection coin cided with his or not.—(Loud cheers.) I should have liked to have had this opportunity. I have not the least doubt that I said that the Established Church in Scotland should, in common with the Established Church in England, enjoy the same privileges ; and I have not the least doubt that I also stated then my devotion to the principles which I had always pro. fessed on this subject. However, I have no recollection of it ; yet I will say that from what had taken place in Prussia and other parts of the continent, I was not willing that the same struggle should take place in Ireland between the Catholics and Protestants, and therefore I was anxious to avoid all religious conflicts; but never did I hear it said that I at any time uttered an opinion in depreciation of the Roman Catholics. ( Hear.) I never heard it asserted, and the first I heard of it was from what I saw in the public newspapers; arid i must say that all I have heard from all sides is very contradictory to the language which I believe I used.—( Hear, hear.) Again, I beg to say that I have no recollection of the part attributed to me by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite ; but this I will say, that during the cry that was raised against the Roman Catholics, I, for one, never joined in that cry. —( Hear, hear. ) And I must here be allowed to say that it does appear rather strange that, if such was my language, and such my conduct at that period, it is rather remarkable, I say, that I should sub sequently have supported this question as I have done.— (Cheers.) Now, from the manner in which Ispoke upon this subject in the year 1841, the Right Hon. Baronet opposite said, in quoting my words, "it. would be better to follow my advice on this question as delivered by me out of doors." Now, in 1t341, when I was out of office, I did not shrink from avowing my opinion in favour of this vote, for I said it was an honour able engagement, and that it would be impossible, without wounding the feelings of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, to withdraw this vote; and therefore now I support it, par ticularly as I do not believe it to be at all injurious to the I ro testant religion.—( Hear, hear.) I now think it impossible either to withhold this measure, or to advocate the case of the Hon. Member for the University of Cambridge. 1 be. hove that in Ireland they would be very independent of this measure; but still I must say, that if the Hon. Member should persevere in his motion, I certainly must declare it is out of my power to be a party to such a vote.—( Cheers. ) do not bring forward this measure under the impressioa lhat it will not be continued regularly with a view of rescuing for ever the College of Maynooth from the position in which it has hitherto been placed, because I say it would be disgraceful to you to send forward any measure of this nature that could be looked upon as a dissatisfactory measure of legislation in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) I will not say that I was not pre pared for the opposition which this measure has met with from the Dissenters ; but I will say this, that much as I respect the expression of public feeling upon all subjects, so far from deterring me, upon this, it will only tend as an additional im rii4lse to re rn,4.0,1 - ,ori 7; <<t • 41. Ireland that the Government of this country were prepared to adhere to their measures, which were dictated by none other than a kindly feeling.—(Loud cheers.) But of this I will give them the assurance that, in office or out of office, that which I have undertaken to do I will, to the ut most of my power, fulfil—it may be short of their expecta tions, but they never shall have cause to charge me with abandoning their interest—which I will advance to the extent to which I feel, consistently with my public daty, I can pro mote it.—(The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst loud cheers.) Lord WORSLEY then addressed the House for a few minutes, but owing to the noise in the House, and the impa tience which was manifested for a division, his observations were inaudible in the gallery. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that, having opposed the Bill in all the stages through which it had passed, he did not think that any apology was necessary from him for the vote which he intended to give on that occasion. The Right Hon. Baronet had the other night said, " Of course those who vote against the second reading of this Bill, will support the mo tion of the Hon. and Learned Recorder for London," but if he (Mr. Duncombe) recollected correctly the Right Hon. Gen tleman had stated that evening that every one of those Gen tlemen who were opposed to the Hon. Member for Sheffield would of necessity vote for the motion of the Hon. and Learned Member. Sir R. PEEL—He has changed his motion. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE—Changed his motion 1 But how had he changed it' The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had first proposed that the money should not be taken out of the Consolidated fund, and he then proposed that the report of the Committee which had agreed to the money being taken out of the Consolidated fund should be received that day six months. This was splitting hairs. He (Mr. Duncombe) said that the motion was precisely the same. The Right Hon. Baronet was right in calling on those Gentlemen who had voted with the Hon. Member for Sheffield, to vote for the motion of the Honourable and Learned Member for Cambridge. But it (lid not appear that they would vote for it. Were they to be told that the expression of public opinion was to be treated, as the Hon. Baronet said, as a ferment in the public mind, which was about to be set aside ? That was the language of the Minister to the people of England. He (Mr. Duncombe) would give the Hon. Baronet the credit of this. He had never seen any indecent haste on the part of the Hon. Baronet to remain in office, nor had he ever seen in him any unworthy desire to retain office after his power had gone. He (Mr. Duncombe) believed that the Right Hon. Baronet be lieved that it was his duty to pass this measure if he possibly could. But he was carrying it in direet opposition to the wishes and feelings of the body of the people.—( Hear, hear.) What the people of this country so much objected to was the endowment of the Roman Catholic religion. They objected to transfer this property where there was already one establish ment too many--(" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) The Right Hon. Gentleman now set public opinion at defiance. There could be no question about it after his speech of that evening, but he believed the Right Hon. Gentleman proved himself the greatest enemy of the Established Church in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He would however do him the justice to say that he was the greatest friend to the extension of the franchise, for the people of this country would no longer allow the constitution of that House to remain as it was.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. COLLETT (Athlone) rose amidst loud cries of " Oh, oh." He would not detain the House many moments.— (Hear, hear.) The question had been exhibited in so many different aspects, that he, as a young Member__(Loud laughter)—hardly knew how to vary the question before the House. He approved of the motion of the Hon. Member for Sheffield, which he thought might be stated in a few words, namely, who was to pay the piper.—( Laughter.) Except upon the voluntary principle, he was opposed to all establish ments.—( Loud Laughter.) He thought that religion was a matter between a man and his God. He did not think that he had a right to say to the Roman Catholic that his own religion was better than his, nor that the Roman Ca tholic had a right to say that his religion was better than Ma hometanism.—(lncreased laughter.) Religion did not con. sist in reviving obsolete forms, or preaching a sermon in a white, or a black, or blue surplice, but in doing good. He thought if they were to have a Pope, the farther off he was the betier. It was better to have one in Rome, or in Exeter, than in London.—( Laughter ) He thought they need not go to the Consolidated fund for the money, when they could take 5,000/. a year from the Bishop of London and the Bishop of Exeter.—( Laughter.) If they did this they would be put more on a level with the meek and poor Apostles, whose fol lowers they profes , ed to be.—( L aug h ter. ) But they were no more apostles than he was.—k Roars of laughter.) He would support the measure of the Government. The House then divided, when thereappeared— Against the motion For it Majority against the motion ll3 Mr. TANCRED the❑ proposed that upon the report of a resolution from the Committee, that provision he made out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, for the endowment of ihe College of Maynooth, to move the addition of the following words " until provision shall be made for the same, by any Act to be passed in this or any subsequent session of Parliament, either out of any surplus in the hands of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners of Ireland, or by an assessment of the lands of Ireland to as amount equivalent to the remission of tithes made to the land lords of Ireland by the Tithe Commutation Act, as Parliament may deem most advisable." The House then divided, when there appeared__ For the amendment Against it 128 Majority... ........ ..... —76 The report was then brought up. Mr. S. O'BRIEN moved the second reading of the Malt Drawback Bill, which was, however, after a few words from Mr. Hume and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, postponed till Friday next. The Museums of Art Bill was read a third tine. Lord ASHLEY brought up the report on the Calico Print Works`Bill. The remaining orders were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at a Quarter to One o'clock. COURT CIRCULAR. The Queen and Prince Albert left town at ten e'clock yes• terdav morning, in an open carriage and four, escorted by a party of the 4th Light Dragoons, for Claremont. Her ➢la jesty- and his Royal Ilighnets were accompanied by the Princess Royal. The Viscountess Jocelyn, Lady in Wait ing, Viscount Sydney, Lord in Waiting, Colonel Arbuthnot, Equerry in Waiting, and Colonel Bouverie, Equerry in Wait • ing to Prince Albert, followed in another open carriage and four. Her Majesty and Prince Albert were conducted to their carriage by the Dowager Lady Lyttelton, Lady Caroline Cocks, the Vice-Chamberlain, and Lord G. Lennox. Her Majesty the Queen Dowager took an airing in a car riage yesterday. His Royal Highness Prince George arrived at his residence in St. James's Palace at six o'clock yesterday morning, from Dover, having returned from the lonian islands. At ten o'clock the Prince went to Cambridge House to visit his illustrioui relatives, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, the Hereditary Grand Duke and Grand Duchess of Mecklenburgh Strelitz and the Princess Mary. His Royal Highness after wards visited her Majesty the Queen Dowager, at Marl borough House, and also paid visits to her Royal High ness the Duchess of Kent, at Clarence House, St. James's, and her Royal Highness the Duchess of Gloucester, at Glou cester House. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent took an airing in a carriage yesterday. Their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Cam bridge and the Hereditary Grand Duke and Grand Duchess of Mecklenburgh Strelitz, attended by Mr. Edmond Mild may , honoured the Earl an d C oun t ess of Wilton with their com pany at dinner yesterday evening, at their residence in Grosvenor-square. Mr. John' Wood, Chairman of the Excise, had an interview with the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday, at his official residence in Downing-street. Dispatches from the Governor of the Mauritius, and also from the Governor of the Cape of Good cope, were received yesterday at the Colonial-office. Dispatches were received on Saturday from the Governor of Gibraltar. Sir Edward and Lady Kerrison have arrived at their resi dence in Great Stanhope-street, from Brighton. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. NEWMARKET FIRST SPRING MEETING. NEWMARKET, MONDAY AFTER/coon, 4 O'CLOCK. The arrivals since our last parcel was forwarded have been incessant, and with the additions that may be looked for this evening, will, we doubt not, realise our anticipations of a full and brilliant meeting. Most of the visitors met last night at the reading of the list, with what object it is difficult to com prehend, unless by a few small bets at evens and 6 to 5 on Idas, and 8 to 1 agst Cataract, they proposed to show that if the Two Thousand - Guineas Stakes is a certainty, the Chester Cup is not; of regular betting we never heard so little, although the doors were not closed until after midnight. The racing this afternoon, not withstanding the transfer of the Minotaur and Pine apple match to Tuesday, has been quite up to the mark in quantity, although, it must be admitted, not calcu. lated to excite any interest beyond the moment. An early commencement being indispensable, the Plate was run for at twelve o'clock, in the presence of a large and fashionable company, the weather favourable, and the course in good order. Leaving two matches of minor importance for our next, we subjoin the customary returns of the racing up to four o'clock:- 501 i for four yrs_ old, 7st 10Ib ; five, Bst 91b ; six and aged, 9st. Last three miles of B.C. Lord Sandwich's Plantagenet, 4 yrs . ................ ,(N a t) 1 Mr. Edward s ' s T ru d ge -i t, 4 yrs 2 5t04 on Trudge-it. Plantagenet made all the running, and won, after a close race up the cords, by a head, the favourite never having quite reached him. The Jerry Stakes of 100 sovs. each, h ft, colts, Bst 71b; fillies, Bst 41b. D.M. Lord W. Powlett's Energy ........... (Nat) 1 Mr. Booth's New Year's Day ............ ............ 2 2 to 1 on Energy, who m a d e a waiting race .. of . it, ..came at the cords, and won by a le ng th , easy. Handicap Sweepstakes of 20 sovs. each, h ft if declared, for three y m ears old d. and upward s . T .Y.C. (7 Subs. )_three of who pai • Mr. LordJ. D Chesterfi s eld's the Poor Soldier, 5 yrs, 7 s t 131 b (Nat) 1 rake' Anonme, 5 yrs, 7st 61b ............... 2 Lord Exeter's fby Velocipede, ou t of Amaryllis, 3 yrs 3 Col. Peel's fby Slane, out of Seakale, 3 yrs, 6st Ilb ......... 11 to 8 on Anonyme, 2 to 1 ag s t P oor Soldier 4 , and 3 to 1 agst Lord Exeter's filly. P oor S o l dier made all the running, and won very easy by three lengths—Lord Exeter's filly a very bad third. Sweepstakes of 50 sovs each, for three years old colts, Bst 7lb ; and fillies Bst 41b. T.Y.C. (6 Subs.) Duke of Rutland's b e., by Royal Oak ......... (W. Boyce) 1 Lord Exeter's Lyons, allowed 31b5... .......................... 2 Mr. E. Batson's Scarmentado ..... • ........................... 3 Mr. Osbaldeston's Secutor ........ ........ Duke of Bedford's c, by Economist, out of Billow (31bs) 5 Lord Glasgow's f, by Ray Middleton —Impertinence (3lbs) 6 6 to 4 on Secutor, 7 to 2 agst Scarmentado, and 4 to 1 on Lyons. The Royal Oak colt made running all the way at a good pace, and won easy by a length. Produce Match of 300 says. each, 11 ft; colts, Bst 71b, and fillies, Bst 41b. D. M. One to the post. Lord Albemarle's Tislphone ............ (Whitehouse 1 Lord Exeter's Deoda ra ......... ) . ..... 6 to 4 on, Tisiphone ; won easy, b y . . two lengths.. 2 Match-200 h ft, D. M., B s t 71b each ; Duke of Bedfirrd's Captain Phebus (Edwards) beat Mr. Greville's Sir Prancis. 2 to 1 on Captain Phebus ; won easy, by a l'aigth. Sweeps of 50 sovs. each ; colts, Bst 7111, fillies,, Bst 31b. A.F. (13 Subs.) LLord Verulam's c, by Sir Hercules, out of Christina ..... 1 ord Exeter's Tunick .........................................• 2 Lord Orford's c, by the Grand Duke, out of Miss Julia..... 3 10 to 6 agst Christina colt, and 10 to 6 aat Tunick * won by a length, easy; Lord Orford's colt beaten a long wa . Sweepstakes of 20 sovs. each, for three yrs old, 7st 37 ,•four yrs, Bst 91b ; 5 yrs, 9st 21b ; 6 yrs, and aged, 9st . 41b. D.H. (3 Subs.) Lord Stradbroke's Evenus, 5 yrs ......... . ... .walked over. Match.-100, h ft. A. F. ; Bst 71b e.a.c.l; Maid stone's Cockamaroo received forfeit from LordL—ordGlasgow's Amulet colt. BETTING BEFORE RACES. 1•!:<.t. f Cui..-7 to 1 S,.DlK,ria, (8 to 1 taken reely)----9 to 1 agst Cataract-5 to 1 agst Fitzallen- offers to take 10 to 1 each, - about Obscurity Ould Ireland. NEW MATCHES FOR THURSDAY . —t o Duke of Bedford's Minotaur, 9st, agst Mr.. Osbaktestou Sorella, Sst Mb. A.F. 200, h ft. ATMOSPHERIC RAILWAY S. rd r of The following is the report (issued yesterday by 0 - 6 the •House of Commons), from the Select Committee ap pointed (March 14) to inquire into the merits of the atmos pheric system of railway : Your Committee have given their best attention to this interest; ing subject, Adverting to the great number of Railway Bills 00 0. in progress, they consider that one of the most practical results ! this inquiry would be lost if their report were delayed until efl e t r these Bills had passed through Committee and a decision it a 7 ready been made on their comparative merits. Your Committee have endeavoured, therefore, House, with as little delay as is consistent with the due discar. the 01 , ..1 r of n their duty, the evidence which they have taken, and ions to which they have come, and they trust that their le t may not prove altogether useless to the Committees that have ° decide on the particular railway scemes now pending. rin. The House are aware that a railway on the atmospheric P to ciple is already in operation between Kingstown and Dal lei to Present bye Ireland. n The first object of your Co mm ittee was to make a fu ll Bea u , e , into the result of this expe r im en t. From Mr. Gibbons, 111 r. Be* - iniri - and Mr. Vignoles, gentlemen officially connected with the the,' - e " town and Dublin and Kingstown and Dalkey RailwaYs . °"owl ceived the fullest and frankest evidence on all the points c . . ta ge with their management. Your Committee had also the adv— w or , of the opinion of Dr. Robinson, of Armagh, whose scien tific : 4 ,oV ledge and acquirements len d er hi s t e stimony particu larly I.' on the theoretical merits of such an invention. ; apPe e° From this evidence, and f rom that of Mr. Samud a, t .it that the Dalkey line has been open for nineteen month', has worked with regularity an d s afety throughout a ll the hso, tudes of temperature, and th a t th e few interruption s which occurred occurred have arisen rather from the inexperience of th e ants, than from any material defect of the system. owe" Your Committee find, moreover, that high velocities ha 10 , attained with proportional loads on an incline averaging I in during o ne to ile within a course in which th e p ower is applied only anal an eighth. These results have been displayed under circumstance. wblcb afford no fair criterion of what may be expected elsewhere; 0)t...0i.. addition to the curves on th e li ne , w hi c h would hav e been e'oo, dered objectionable, if n ot i m p rac tic a ble, for locolootive enttos, there are alleged to ex i s t d e f ec t s i n th e machinery and aPPs-00. occasioned partly by the difficulties of the situation, Part l y etract .akes inseparable from a first attempt, which very seriously u from the efficiency of the power employed, for the reined,' di' provision has been made in the experiments now in P echaniP'. These are important facts. They establish the nt laxity efficiency of the atmospheric power to convey with reg h , ti tareen speed, and security the traffic upon one section of piP e ," - bi tbe two termini; and your Committee have since been 0 06 7 r ' 0 0 evidence of Messrs. Brunel, Cubitt, and Vignoles, that Or' he s he mechanical difficulty which will oppose the working of rogress. system upon a line of any le ng th. They are further congni'-.oe, in this opinion by the conduct of the Dalkey and Kingstowniti on tors, who have at this moment before Parliament a Prnt— ,A, ex Ili d their atmospheric line to Bray . finn itree , addition tot he witnesses already me ntioned, your have had the advant age o f h ear i ng t h e o bj e ctions urged or the Nicholson, Stephenson, and Locke against the adoPt iee or the atmospheric principle, and the grounds of their preference locomotive now in use. , ev idenCe Your Committee must refer the House to the valuab ie of given by these gentlemen. It will be seen that great Whomdiffeor opinion exists between them end the other witnesses t O f your Committee have before referred, both in their esl ialav fa "" ture what has already been etfected, and in their calculations 0( improvement. sots your But, without entering upon all the controverted Po' ' be ric Committee have no hesitation in stating, that a single atoll' oe d line is superior to a double locomotive line, both in r e g uiltl a i ssing safety, itiasmu , h as it makes collisions i mpo ,, , inie, except ast.cr from plac.s, and excludes all the danger and irregularity ar I t f oo of casualties to engines or their tenders. Nom, the imP er to the these considcrai'ions wiil be best estimated by a reference t. it return . of accidents tbr fifteen months appended to this ree r f o urteen l i ch will be seen that there have been during that period lisions upon the road, and thirteen accidents to etillin eavi and would altogether have been avoided on the atin that these casualties entailed the loss of eleven lives, a ' well acel" serious injury of forty-five persons. From the other twen t y two dents, common to both systems, resulted only four death. and Ase persons injured. There is certainly one case in which the:l?-0, ospherie erg.; the passed uninsured over cattle lying upon the road, entire train ; but then against this security derived from th cage of we , ght in surmounting obstacles, must be set ti,ita;;;s danger to which the engin e.driver and stoker are exposed , as they do upon an open platform. of the Your Committee desire also to bring to the attention bee" I ` . House a pecuhar ity of the atmospheric system which has ofito u together e e it .oo. " duce.l by the objectors to prove how unsuited it must be P r ogee to carry en a small and irregular traffic; proportion of the expenses of haulage on the atinospheric_orl? „er ciple are constant, and cannot be materially reduced' " scries, small the amount of traffic may be. This is, no doubt, a elf objection to the economy of the atmospheric system under tt;e cumstances above alluded to. But, on the other hand, as wins, namely, that the g . penses do not increase in proportion to the frequency of Or in apt it is to the interest of companies adopting the atmospheric P r t l i g ht to increase the amount of their traffic by running ff e q uee the • trains, at low rates of fare ; b y w hi c h th e Conven e- nee ova/ public must be greatly promot e d. U pon an atmosPh eria ,;„g the the moving power is mo s t econom i ca ll y app lied by diZ t l- to ins. weight to be carried into a considerable number of conv e ", By locomotive engines, on the contrary, the poWer i l ~.- a c " giber o " niently applied by concentrating the traffic in a sroa ue ", - u nie derate heavier trains. The rate of speed at which trains - make , ee " -- gt of weight can be conveyed on an atmospheri tively little difference in the cost of conveyance , . Wh il e the e t ' the moving trains by locomotive engines increases rapidly w ith • speed, Now, when it is considered that we surrender to grea..tfulea° lies the regulation of all the arteries of communication tr".'ir vier the kingdom, that it depends in a great measure upon th e . d. of their interest when we shall travel, at what speed we sh ah and what we shall pay, it becomes a material consideration, tra in balancing the advantages insured to the public by rival o ° ll' the e im u ate not so much what thay respectively can do, but °P..' p rsu t of their own emolument, they will do. if O . Themain objections of the opponents of the atmospheric seem to rest, I st, on the supposed increased expense of the — f a rt! " phonic apparatus over and above the saving made in the ono - C v . tion of the road ; 2d, on the inconvenience and irregularity ou r tending upon a single line. With reference to the last Po int : Y a l e Committee felt it their duty to direct their first attention t 0 1s question of security, and they have already stated that tb e ioe ,„ — more security in a single atmospheric line than in a doubl e , t ,, a j motive. They may furth er observe, that they fi n d the nrsio r ' n . 0 1,0 that any ordinary traffic migineers who have bee ght be carried on n examined are dwit h ecidedlY slld re guliritl • convenience by a single atmospheric line. places Tiber* Mr. Brunel has proposed to double the line in those pa- - ut trains are intended to meet; and he has further :hewn ° l o w of hilly country, with long pl anes o f su ffi c i en t inclination to a , ht the De descent of tr a i ns b y t h e unaided power o f gravith possible to effect this object without the expense of the Nov' Din ts, With respect to expense, and to some other contested Pads your Committee do not feel themselves competent to repor t • e . fa t cided opinion. It wou ld scarcely be poss ibl e a t OW Pre a ' - il ftee o to institute a fair comparison of a system which has bad 0 l et years of growth and development, with another which , tioeer• in its infancy. That comparin wuld, after all, be ve i l of, tarn ; it must depend much ondetails of which sve ay' much on scientific knowledge which we do not posses' , ballet There are, however, questions of practical importan Tio ase, rai way reference to the present state of the "l Bills b e fore th . to which your Committee consider themselves bound to advert. yrscle' There is a doubt raised in the reports of the Board ed to whether the atm os ph er i c system has been sufficiently won the justify the preference of a line which can only workeedvoble thana tmospheric system, or which presents gradients less f„. competing line for the use of the locomotive engi n . ,, t ii the If it were practicable to suspend all railway legislation .c"reydon at result of the Devon and Cornwall, and of the EPsol n and ost oa el ‘ atmospheric lines were known, it would be perhaps them cou rse, t o d m u e and prudent course to wait that result; but such . a ptly ire it ev ide i pendent of all considerations of expediency, th practicable Your Committee venture therefore to eaPlaell of opinion to the Hous e , th a t i n d ec i d i ng between comPet i " g mo berie railway, those which have been set out to suit the at ra h done principle ought not to be considered as open merelyon account of their having gradients too sever e . 1 ; o ther to valid ot r the locomotive, l nor should they be tested in comparison o i l of o f the lines tie y by the degree of their suitableness to the is locomotive. deCide No doubt , • the ultimate result, but your Committee think that ther e he OP° in matters like these, experience alone e; i ceple evidence which would justify the adoption of an ot.inire°gPed son in the present time. All the witnesses they have in its mechanical success. Mr. Bidder says, cola u`t yoade t ot chanical problem as solved, whether the atmosObe re an e ffi cient tractive agent. There can be no question al fiL Q and the apparatus worked, as far as I observed it, yell on only question in my mind was as to the commercial 31,P,ces it." Mr. Stephenson admits that under certain circuett;viltfr sc%r—nsidge; cf tro" 12 14 tie gradients (1315), and under certain circu mstance s out reference to gradients 'OO P preferable, stroll• cel While your Committee have thus expressed stroll. go y f princ iples 00 0 favour of the general merits of the atmospheric (1204), the atmospheric systems that experience can alone determine under whet c l reu choO li 611 of traffic or of country the preference to either ern" — given. April 22, 1045. Paris,votiest so justly renowned for its elegant n ° , bilC surpassed a this' year, not only maintained its reputl iti° l a' s _Engplissaherodanit g i o n in a g ll th tl e i r a e t ctoonbceerntsfretetdo,ileattev, a:Ivo:: l a derni t , e mode, cannot fail to visit Becker aine, 15, - 11 ss c . des Petits Champs,. where he will find all that riehtleroy material,withco edieengcaencleea, whose talent and bon choice to be cut UP st the va a e n g d ohui F ts o i o s d p tas r 0 vteercbaianl ceovmenbinambey,ltiajtor Lions of the capital.. IRTS. On the 16th i ns t., the B H r,, wife of John Hare, -.-'s(l.' Clifton ' park, Clifton, of a son. f CT. • On the 2lst inst. at Cheltenham, the lady o f t "• Annesley, Esq., of a r son. f HePP On the 21st inst., at Aix. la Chapelle , Mrs. J. A- . of a daughter. ' Thonise Lyooon F th e e n ad ee i , n o st f ., e a 4 t e L o i . tigwood, the lady of the Bel' the lady of Onthe R th e e v. 24 j t o h hn it A ls t t h ., a a w t e l : ouliton Rectory , Bucks' e wi fe a , of a son. _ On the 24th inst., at Castelnan.villa, Barnes, th Mr. Richard Stonnill, of a son. of On ndatohgeh2tsetrh, still-bo rn . il S l t zo a to. tB roltley House, Mrs. AV* " 1 " jacl°°°' i t Serr e f' On the 26th inst., at LansdP;wne•place, Rick"' C°ll3- the lady of Captain Claude 7 i t o b er t s , Hon. Eas t parry's service, o f a son.. - ___---- On the rleitb . i ns t., o ert 'WARMED. gitche Yhter o Es ,c • q. , ,Aptain in the 29th Regiment, to F at Aspall, Henry ri ti o n ra n t y i °d a nb Dr. Ch airier, of Aspall Hall, Suffolk• of On nthD/ED. Earl Stamforde atnhainlsvta.,rraitngEtnovni,llaeglledalBlo, 80. Dubl in ' the publin, At her house in George-street, Rutland-square Olivia. the wife of Sir Arthur Clarke, M.D. Ta , s u lliv ll4 On the 17th i ust., at W estport, I re l a nd, ri enrY Esq., M.D. e stbru °k " On the 2 4th i ns t ., a t G ravesen d , M r . Charles Nv E s q. On the 24th inst., at Wanstead, Thomas Spering' age d 90. On the 25th inst., at Epsom, Mrs. Mary Ash le y' Drydl; as On the 25th inst., Jane, daughter of Mr. Clunes street, Covent-garden, aged 14. ~ nd Published MURPO ~T, Jl2; Strand. ar Pr, r, Tise Sun Office , ...franc', i n th -,- h .r „ ., 1 / 4 .let of the Savoy. in t he uLtualosex % Tuesday, April 29, 1845. _.n.is~