The Sun. — London, England, 1844-03-20 00:00:00

T}E. ci s 19—T te ar nestly only 11 00 ' but ,vss . '" de , le rt' t duel 110 a nd 1 ,11 a ltb`L a "b tianla ice 0! fo r Ag 4, 1,17f1, ANNOYANCE JUR. Last • • 8 evening, a Committee of tradesm lES n, elected at a meeting held on Wednesday last, an account-of which t teared in Th e S un o f t h e Satur d ay even i ng follow i ng, th k Place at the Windsor Castle Tavern, Long-acre, for ,arpose of taking into consideration the best and 1 ,79 a iest method of effecting an alteration in the Act of weights and relating to the regulations respecting , e ,lghts and measures" and the " annoyance juries." be't MARSHALL, tea dealer, of No. 20, Strand, having e.'l? u nanimously called to the chair, in a brief speech mentio n the objects of the meeting. Ile said he would cl el e ltion one astounding fact, in addition to what he had 3 ,_,dY stated, in proof of the absolute necessity of a tr`tllY alteration being effected in the present system ned lithe Annoyance Juries, viz, that the jurymen men actuy been inflicting penalties on those trades ,riewho, rather, as they imagined, than subject them :7,l's s to their eaprice, have preferred giving the pur- Zsuia,er the benefit of over weight. Was this, he would carrying out the objects of the Act of Parliament ? w ,"s what he referred to an act of dishonesty ? If not, , e y Were upright, honest tradesmen, paying heavy is and taxes, to be thus subjected to such ti, l °ll.v enience and injury to their business by ;s perver s i on o f t h e A ct of Parliament ? He fecnild exp!ain the reason. It was on account of the 14 arising out of the numProua and frequent fines, 'eh fill the pockets of-the High Bailiff, the burgesses, "T, and others. A tradesman being fined had no ap peal, unl ess i t was to the parties by whom he had been , e d• The fines for the last month, in Westminster, , t i li° Rated to 381. 7s. 6d., which for one year gave a total L 4 60/. 10s. There were, however, other fines, not a ced upon the list, the names of the parties so fined ,op en by some means been suppressed. The Chairman Of ` ri read a portion of the Act relating to the disposal the th penalties. It ran thus :—" The High Bailiff; for e time being, shall be, and he is hereby entitled to one 'etY or half part thereof, and shall receive and take tsame to his own use ; and the other moiety or half in thereof shall be taken and applied by the Court of that to pay the necessary charges and expenses 4eat shall attend the execution of this Act." i n IIAYNA.N, corn chandler, of the Westminster-road, at ding to the Annoyance Jury, said that the loss of the stabslard weights and measures at the time of the destruction by fire of the Houses of Parliament was the b a de of many strict investigations being entered into the Committees Cf those Houses touching the manner which the Act respeciing the same was carried out. C 0 would urge the necessity of every Member of the eamittee as also their friends, to immediately furnish of eir Chairman with a written statement of their grounds t ia .,, l4 Plaint, preparatory to a deputation of the Com -Ice la company of their Members of Parliament (silo la 1 11 . , the latter comply with their request to acconi adnY them) wa i t i ng upon th e S ecre tary . of State for his x vi ce r. and assistance touching their grievances. ,„'" /Carom., the Secretary, having read the resolu s relative to the above, which were put and carried ; A l 's subscription, headed by the Chairman and Mr. ImPhilion, was immediately entered into for the pur tba,:,of furthering the objects of the Committee; and, ' 4 * ha v i ng be/on voted to the Chairman, the Cominit sePavated. B OUTH EASTERN COUNTIES RAILWAY. I ,,erestexclay, at one o'clock, a special meeting of the 2rietors and Directors of the above Railway was held ' tio c * ` ,* terminus, London-bridge, for the purpose of I lg into consideration the draft of a Bill to alter and t ,e . ove the h ar b ou r at Folkestone, and to form a branch Cf - a wa y from the main line to that place; also the draft E ta l ee° ed Bill, empowering the Company to make I/ Il ea line from Ashford to Canterbury, Ramsgate, and ti a . t gate ; and to consider the propriety of autho r the Di rec t ors t o r aise, by the issue of additional t 96 , e 8 to the amount of 28,000, a sum not exceeding iz z 'ut, for the purpose of providing for a correspond rtiount in securities new existing under the seal of T k ° MI/any. tWe Chairman of the Company, Mr. BA XENDALE, p r .‘ tile chair at one o'clock, and said, the object of the I,etit meeting was only to confirm certain pleasures N el ; had been-adopted at the last general meeting of t th, p ropriet ors . As they had so recently explained all th olti °l 2ects for which the present meeting was called, he not detain them longer than to express his perfect to ts 'lneas to answer any questions which the Proprie , ktnight wish to put to him. ili l tekly to ques ti ons p u t to him by several Proprietors, e uRAIRMAN said that the new shares would not kja -6L3 tered until the first instalment of 4L had been otherwise it would be only a scrip. Every person t o Paid 41. would have his name entered upon the TlZPanY's book for 6/. 55., and be debited accordingly. 'tt li n of money so raised would be strictly appropri t.7 the purposes named in the requisition calling kpic o ee ting, and if there were a residue , it would be 14 - ," to the Parliamentary liabilities to which the " In Y was subject. *lli o ll nrober of resolutions, confirming the objects for 45 the meeting was convened, having been passed, h t ed. "isaks voted ° to the Chairman, the meeting sepa- / 1 E POST-OFFICE AND MR. ROWL AND HILL. (From the Westminster Review for March.) tie o q r . Rowland Hill has printed an analysis of the evi -1 taken before the late Post-office Committee of ko(stiry W , and we are anxious to assist in giving the ut his Possible circulation to one of the principal facts of , 13 , 4 ninhlet, entitled the " State and Prospects of Penny e " bli h by Mh o g, pu s e Knight. The fac to which w o e h y " is the complete refutation of the statement mad th e Chancellor of the Exchequer during the last that, under the new system of penny postage, ost - office did not pay its own expenses ;".—and tot,yro el is u tation is by Colonel Maberly himself, the Secre bpor, the Post-office. The statement was made, not t o return but a mere estimate, which is now proved it e ;re been incorrect in nearly every item. One of its key W as a sum of 612,8501., the whole cost of the pac tits."rvfee wrongly charged, and charged, for the first • t ° the account of Post-office expenditure, as if de ledlY to d amage penny postage . It did damage it so the 1 " at foreign Governments, balancing at the time di att3 Propriety o f corres p o nding _ r red_uctions, imme taesttY took ala rm on r ea d i ng M . Goulburn's state lish and withheld the boon on the ground. that the Eng thatYstern had proved a failure. The mischief, abroad, 14 und a s been occasioned by this extraordinary official er• •has been incalculable ; and we do not doubt, 1 , i. .tit o a question of personal honour, that Mr. Goul his place in the House, will hasten to remedy t itttr y 'r, to the utmost of his power, by a correct expla % °f the case, now that he is better informed. In I \''‘,Teantira e our friends on the Continent would do the to disseminate through all the foreign ai journals :— Tllowing evidence given by Colonel . M b y 4 1 , 1 ,7 I have stated over and over again, looking at . it hlise,trtis the Post-office revenue now ascomparedwith t he 1 , 40 Post-office revenue was before the . penny post, • " r Phla of income over expenditure is somewhere 6 ° 0 ,000/. !" t e l ,li tt i ° national honour is equally involved in the present eta of the Government and the country weto Mr.Ba i nitt: l ld Hill. If his plan had proved abortive, be k, is,ar ~ltand why their author should . have . ; but to adopt his plans, admit their success to as V l l)7ll,. t heY have been yet carried out, and disown • 44 th' u "e obligation to Mr. Hill, is to disgrace the nation. 1 .41!,, r " nobleman in the House who would us disown Creltt' eontraeted on Newmarket race course, ta an te d sm is en a trloral debt to be utterly disregarded by s 'at 'egislator 2 We talk of American " repudiation,' ' "at • s * . And where o otsd is this ? in the history of the eat e n! tates shall we find a' parallel to Post-office eff ec ted of near) y every - one who . has proved himself c •t; c 1 1141 . benefactor by the great improvements he has Ni o In postal communication ? Mr. Dockwra, who N a i t ed town posts shortly before the Restoration, , 44 ttes - ' l ‘. Palmer, introduced madeonehes about the "‘klpi li d of the last century, both saw their plans kl,tif e h g, and found themselves, like Mr. H .1, turned_ 'aitt.,"R• 'hi,Y the Treasury, through the complaints and op of th e Post. office authorities. parcel° d' we write we are reminded of the benefits which re sult from , one of his proposals, that of a light l '' ll t d elivery, by a letter from Paris, in which the_ Ihts nninquires why he cannot send to London through % A N a ; st, under the new postal convention between Eg- Cael i T Prance, a co py of the Journal des Economis t es, 41, 4 8 ? e finds th e Post-office will take no further than ° • Ur proZaders should know that while that treaty . wa e s „'"' o 4l -eB s, an effort was made to procure the privilege Ott, ~rebange through the Post-office, of pamphlets `ae oY lit and scientific men on both sides th, This This failed (as was understood) through 1 1, 11 ° e ,, l iis started by the English Post-office, f te ak`ii e ulae4 the old fallacy, that the mails would 'ltt.• 1,1,,-()2,11 with their load. A clause, however, was L't(lh,',„ e ed in favour of periodicals, but even this nig "htitovisior for the interests of literature and sci t7ao t''s been, up to the present moment, rendered nullity. r times we have endeavoured m'O' Periodicals under the new treaty, and in Itlstanee foundthem charged nearly five shillings, n ors f4 l II over weight. In afifth instance, we went Mae a l ce r to, St. Martin's-le-Grand, and submitted 4 : p,,,, tag eautalnessecdle d w to s Trance for pre-pament, khi r led nine shillings. W'e then ^h ll clerks eh the he ea at the Pay-office to the treaty, of nita3ett aPPeared to know little or nothing, but they 3' sendi ng our pac k e t i nto the Secretary's ull : P eaty - t `) in wh e th er it was one which under the (s 'Nves be fo rwar d e d at t h e re d uce d ra t e . The `°trool retur ned was i n th e affirmative, and. that the „ ,Pestage would be eightpence. The eigh . tpence ' Y e vald and although in - France a volume .. like the Sal r t f '44i nste ran r Review can be sent any distance for Pak e k' ~f i. f te en francs were demanded . for this .(under, four ounces) when it . arrived ) at 1141 k 44 we l' know. Wh n er o e t, the blame o e c o t rt h s is irregularity to obtain 'nation at home have not hitherto been any d' the Vtit)t In addition to this subject of corn of ge `. °U scientific . men formerly en e,4llol t h e g their letters and printed papers abroad t % pre" A mbassador's bag has been stopped.. Such tooeea sent state of international communication be -4.1i50 great Powers claiming to be at the head of %-ilisation. A •••••■ ••••m•••,.... 1 dreadful accident occurred on the 13th in the Ait 4 t t i l i On e of St. rrive, A female of that place had ascended ;ttrk el' son to the fourth story of his windmill, situated at ri4siniii, and was standing near the edge, when the wind 1 . , her dreSs to an iron bar which. was used to raise bags 1 4 ( 41, :11,,,,i4g round. The dress got wound round this pieca of the bar was im ;ately put in motion, and carried htt-ton round and round, notwithstanding all the efforts the )1 4°11 to prevent it. He then rushed down and stopped , t , t 4,,, 11,1 Jut Pieces, having when he returned he found his mother literally n 4 t o been forced by each rotation against 414 ' invathed her last immediately after. ~~. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS. - TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUZ Y . happened lately to peruse the Bill brought into the House of Lords by the Lord Chancellor, for the regulation of I the Ecclesiastical Cotirts, and having previously read in your Parliamentary reports that his Lordship had stated five Administrations had before ,attempted a Bill for the same purpose, and failed from the conflicting interests, and that, if the present Bill did not pass, the Government would bring I forward no other. As a tradesman, and parishioner of Green wich, I endeavoured to trace out what I should have to do under this new Bill, if I was called upon to act as the execu-. tor of any fellow-tradesman, or what my wife would have to do if 1 died, leaving nothing but my stock in trade and debts due to me by my fellow-paraioners ; and I think you will be as much astonished as I was, to find that inhabitants of Greenwich, who, by land and water steam-carriage, are within half an hour of London, at the expense of 6d. or Is , are bound,to lodge their wills at the Bishop's Court at Ro chester, twenty-five miles off, at a considerable increase of expense of money, time, and convenience; and when so lodged at Rochester, that the stamp on the probate (which stamp-duty the Lords of the land, under the old borough mongering Parliament, unjustly placed on my stock in trade and debts, and yet have, and do still keep it off their own landed property) must be obtained from Lef4 m ; and that after wards a copy of the will must be sent from Rochester to Lon don, that my children may pay one per cent. on all the pro perty I have scraped together to leave them, and vet the owner of 100,000/. a year in land may leave it all to his chil dren by his will, without their being compelled or liable to pay one farthing of duty. Oh, outrageous, unjust class legis lation ! Do, pray Mr.' Editor, make some observations in your able paper, that will awaken the just, honest, and true Members of the Lords and Commons Houses of Parliament to this crying and invidiously cruel abuse. Surely the Bill brought in by the Chancellor must have been drawn up by some one not possessed of common sense, and totally unacquainted. with the subject on which lie was directed by his patron to draft this abortive foetus Bill, and utterly reckless of the wants and wishes of the public. I suspect—the suspicion having its birth from the speeches and proceedings in Parliament— ' it is a Bill never meant to succeed, but is brought in as a de ception, that the Government may seem to be doing some thing to help to stop the hands and mouths of others, but which something it never meant to be completed. The population of Greenwich, Woolwich, Deptford, Lee, Lewisham, Eltham, Bromley, &c., in the county of Kent, who are thus sacrificed to conflicting interests,are upwards of 150,000. Poor hard pressed over-taxed John* Bull will think their case is the worst possible instance of rich oppressing the pcor, but where does he think the poor inhabitants of Southwark, Ro therhithe, Kent-road, Lambeth, Brixton, Clapham, Wands worth, Putney, &c., in the county of Surrey, with a popula tion amounting to near a quarter of a million, living within a few minutes or hours' walk or drive of London, and whither they can proceed on foot or by some conveyance almost every minute of the day, at au expense of about one shilling, must lodge their wills under this precious new, well-considered Bill ? Why, the interest and convenience of 500,000 inhabitants, being, of course, duly considered and thought of (amongst the other conflicting interests), by the patriots who now com pose her Majesty's Ministry, they have in their wisdom de termined that Winchester (the Bishop's Court there), being only about seventy miles off, is the most convenient place for the Surreyites to take their wills to ; and, no doubt, as the Surreyites are worse off than the Kentish men, the Kentish men can have no just cause of complaint. .4h, bah ! I would, Mr. Editor, I had a voice of thunder, to make this rank jobbing well known, and heard from one end of the country to the other, from the Land's-end to Shakspeare's • Cliff, from Plymouth to Hull ; or that my pen was like the tongue of the Psalmist, a ready writer, that the inhabitants of other localities might be roused up to peruse this Bill and see how tenderly her Majesty's Ministers, through their Lord Chancellor, attends to the convenience and interest of her Majesty's subjects. I cannot do the subject justice ; you - can, and I trust will. What does the Lord Chancellor mean by conflicting interests? Is not the interest of the public at large the first interest to be attended to by a Government in its legislative enactments, and should not all interests that come in conflict with this primary and essential one fall into the shade? As to on of the conflicting interests, I have heard it cal allate4 that, in §llleCures held mostly by the relatives or con nexions of the present or past Arch or other Bishops, or by other persons having interest, direct or indirect, in Parlia ment ; and in fees to the clergy under the present working of the Ecclesiastical Courts, including therein the fees on marriage licenses ; there is the enormous sum of nearly one million annually divided amongst sinecurists and clergy. Here is, indeed, interest enough to make the conflict very sev - cre, annual income sufficient to raise an army, or to main tain a tieg ; this is the key-stone to a social change, which has been WR•ntNI and attempted for 300 years past, never yet having been effected, and which for the last fifteen years has engaged the serious attention of all the Administrations for the time being, without their daring to face it ; but the , country at imp will now require to have it settled, not by such a disgraceful, place-hunting, time-serving, sinecure screening, Bill as that brought in by the Lord Chancellor, but by a measure founded upon broad k large, and liberal principles, haying the interest of the public, the poor equally with the rich, properly provided for; and I beg to subscribe myself, ONE OF YOUR, CONSTANT READERS, and one of the quarter of a million living within five miles of Loudon, south of the River Thames. WARWICK SPRING RACES.—TIIO Queen of the Gipsies was declared not to start for the Trial Stakes. RAPID TRANSIT.---An attorney's clerk may steam it to St. Petersburgh and coach it to Moscow, and be back before the long vacancy is over; ay, though he do Warsaw and Berlin by the way. The shop boy in Liverpool, after his Saturday's labours are ended, em barks his cherished person on board a steamer for Dublin,. stares at Nelson's pillar in Sackville-street and Wellington's obelisk in the Phcenix.park ; and, after hearing Pathly's opera in the cathedral where Swift once presided, and visiting two or three meeting-houses (the best schools for flirtation in the world, as is known to every visiter to the Irish metropolis), he may re.gmbark about bed-time--when be may reckon with tolerable certainty upon being home in time to open his master's shop, at the wonted hour, and soberly assume the cares and duties of the week.—.7ll - qatrit Traveller. . The price or bread in Paris, for the re►nainder of the present month, is fixed at 34 centimes the kilogramme. A letter from Palermo, or the 25th ult., contains the following account of an event which Occurred in the recent earthquake at Caltanissetta, in Sicily. In one pf the sulphuric mines of the Prince de Trebbia, in the province of Caltanissetta, four men were buried by its falling in upon them. The Prince immediately employed men to release them, but their labour was continued for eighteen days be fore the sufferers could he reached. Three of them were found dead, but the fourth, named Giacomo Paterno, was still alive. He related that he escaped the wounds and bruises which his companions received, and supported life by licking with his tongue the moisture from the sides of the galleries as he roamed about hoping to find some aperture by which he might escape. The Prince de Trebbia has granted him a pension sufficient to maintain him without labour. SUDDEN DEATH. Yesterday an instance of the awful uncertainty of human life took place at the office of the Morning Advertiser journal, Fleet-street. It appears that Mr. Blake, who has been the secretary at that office for a number of years past, and resided upon the premises, re tired to rest on Monday evening at gout eleven, in his usual health and spirits. I esterday, however, not making his appearance at the breakfast table at his accustomed time, the servant was sent to call him; but after knocking several times at the door and receiving no answer, it was at length found necessary to burst it open, when Mr. Blake was found dead in his bed. Mr. Wray, surgeon, of Salisbury-square, was immediately called in, but that gentleman pronounced life to have been extinct some hours, apoplexy having, no doubt, been the cause of death. The deceased, who was about fifty years of age, was a bachelor, and was deservedly esteemed by all who knew him. DANGEROUS EXPLOIT—GILDING THE BALL AND CROSS OF ST. PA.ur;‘,---Qn Monday numerous persons were attracted to St. Paul's Churchyard, watching anxiously the movements of a man placed on the extreme Summit of the cross which completes the height of St. Paul's, whilst regild irg the ball and cross. The dangerous undertaking was per formed, we believe, in pursuance of acontract lately entered into to keep that part of the venerable pile in a state of good condition. From the extreme height the man was scarcely perceptible—marked only .45 it were as a dark moving object, w hich the brightness of the cross reflecting the sun served to make visible. SINGULAR CASE.--Yesterday, an adjourned coro ner's inquest took place before Mr, G. I. Mills, deputy coroner for Middlesex, at the Marquis of Hastings, Ossuls ton-street, Somers town, on the body of Henry Hughes, aged ten years, the son of an excavator. From the evi dence, it appeared that on Friday, the 9th instant, the deceased, who resided with his parents in Ton-buildings, was at play with two other boys, named John Silk And Henry Nicholls, at a game designated by them as that of " Dead Mari," which, it appears, was performed by deceased, and who, in representing the defunct, was carried about Tom's-buildings on the shoulders of his companions. In the conrse of their perambulations, one pr other (it could not be ascertained which) let go his hold, and the " dead man" fell on to the ground, and his right shoulder came in eentactwith a brick, which savarely injured him. As soon as ha had recovered from his pain, he well thrashed the boy Nicholls, wham he deemed the most culpable party. In the afternoon of the same day the game was renewed, the de ceased again playing the part of "dead man," and, strange to relate, the same accident in every particular, again occurred, and the deceased then conceiving Silk to be in fault, thrashed him, and went in doors. Towards evening, he became very bad, the shoulder swelled, and medical aid was procured, but erysipelas ensued, of which deceased died on the Sunday evening following. The boys Silk and Nicholls were called in and questioned, but their statements were of such a conflicting character that nothing tangible could be made out of them. Mr. Johnsen, the parish sur geon, who had made a post mortem examination ) said, de ceased had died of erysipelas, in all probability induced by the injury to the shoulder. Mn Mills said, that the case was a pefuliar one, and he could not, strietly speaking, say that the fall was accidental, nor did he believe there was any evidence upon which A charge of manslaughter could be sus. tamed against the boys at - the Old Bailey. The jury ulti mately returned a verdict, "that izieemeci died from erysi pelas, producecl by a fall." • • A VIEW OF MapplT ETNA.—Did }Etna exist be. fore the human race f Was it for ages a great lonely earth monster, sitting by the sea with its rugged woody shoulders and ghastly crown ; now silent ; A d quiet for centuries, like A basking giant—now roaring to the antediluvian solitudes, vomiting forth fire and smoke, drivelling with lava, then silent again as before—alter nately destroying and nourishing the transitory races of analogous gigantic creatures, mammoths, and mastodons, which preceded nobler humanity? Was it produced all at once by some tremendous burst of the earth and ocean— some convulsion, of which the . like has never since been known , --erhaps with all Sicily hanging at its ro o t ? or did it grow, like other earthly productions, by the aeemulations of time and its own energies, inward and outward ? In Whatever way it originated, and however the huge wonder may have behaved itself at. any period, quietly or tremen mendously, whody can doubt that the creature is a benevolent creature—one of the comities of the peaceful and profitable existence of the far greater And more mysterious creature rolling in the shape of an orb round tbg sun in midst of its countless like, and carrying us all along with it in our respective busy inattentions. We do not presume to inquire how the necessity for any such evil mode of good arose. Suffice . for us, that the evil itself works to a general good purpose ; that the earth apparently could not exist without it ; that nature has adorned it with beauty, which is another good, and fertility, which is another, and grandeur, which is another, elevating the aind; and that if human beings prefer risking its neigh.. bourhoed with all its occasional calamities, those (341AMities are not of Its DIM willing , nor of any unavoidable necessity, nor perhaps will esdet AIWA , ,I'A. Suppose Etna should some day again be left to its solitiAlo 2 d people resolve to be burnt and buried alive no longer ! What a, pilgrimage would the mountain be then ! What thought for t - fie poet And the philosopher! What A visit for those who take delight in the borders of fear and terror, arid would love to interrogate na ture the snore for the loneliness pf her sanctuary.—Leigh Hunt in 4insworth's Ncipa;irif, THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY MORNING, MARCH 20, 1644, IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF LORDS, March 19. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat at the Wool sack shortly after Five o'clock. The Three-and-a-Half per Cent. Annuities (1818) Bill, the Three-and-a-Half per Cent. Annuities Bill, and the Consolidated Fund Bill, were severally read a third time and passed. A Mescage from the House of Commons brought up several Bills, which were read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Thursday. Lord CANIOYS presented a petition from Paisley, complaining of the exclusion of Catholics from the jury lists in the late State trials in Dublin. The Bills on the table were forwarded a stage, and the House then adjourned till Thursday. HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 19. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Enur o'clock. Mr. HARDY presented three petitions in favour of the Bradford and Leeds Railway. The report on the Lancaster and Carlisle Railway Bill was further considered and received. On the motion of Mr. MONCKTON MILNES, the report on the Great Western Railway Bill was further considered and received. Colonel SIBTHORP , presented petitions from places in the county of Lincoln, against any alteration in the corn•laws. Mr. Alderman HUMPHERY presented 54 petitions, signed by 9.400 persons in Southwark, praying for a re duction of the duty on tobacco and snuff. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD presented a petition from Rochdale, complaining of the monopoly enjoyed by railways in the.conveyancg.,of goods, and praying the House to interfere. Mr. M. GIBSON presented petitions from Manchester, signed by 22,000 persons, praying the House to take into its consideration the state of the representation of the people, and also praying the House to abolish the corn-laws ; and that they would take into their consi deration the misgovernment of Ireland; and also discuss the grievances of the people before granting the supplies. HULL DOCKS. Mr. HUTT gave notice that he would move that the minutes of evidence taken before the Committee on the Hull Docks Bill in 1840 (and printed in 1841), be re ferred to the Committee on the Bill for the construction of Docks at Bull, now before the House.—Ordered. FACTORIES BILL. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented two petitions from Yorkshire, in favour of a Ten Hours' Bill. Lord MARSHAM presented a petition from the Dean and Chapter of Rochester, against the union of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor. Mr. EWART presented a petition from Dumfries, praying for a repeal of the corn-laws. Lord G. SOMERSET presented a petition, praying for an alteration in the law of arrest. Sir G. GREY presented a petition from the inhabi tants of Christ-Church parish, Lambeth, complaining of the supply of water afforded by the Lambeth Water Company. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr. GILL gave notice that on Friday next he would call the attention of the House to the circumstances of the arrest of Capt. Brewster, of the 76th regiment, in July last. Mr. HUME gave notice that after Easter he should submit a motion to the House, that a humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying her Majesty to abo lish the Lord-Lieutenancy of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BORTIIWICK gave notice that on that day fortnight he would move that a humble address be pre sented to her Majesty, praying that her Majesty would be graciously pleased to direct that Parliament in all matters ecclesiastical should receive the advice of the clergy in convocation assembled, according to the con stitutional and ancient practice of this realm. CONTROVERTED ELECTIONS. Sir ROBERT PEEL gave notice that, on an early day, he should move for the appointment of a Committee, to inquire and report whether it was desirable that any alteration should be made in the law respecting contro verted elections. IRELAND. Mr. MORE O'FERRALL rose to ask the following questions, namely:-1. Whether it is the intention of her Majesty's Government to introduce any measure during the present session to carry into effect all orany of the recommendations contained in tie Report of a Com mission, appointed to revise the several laws under, or by virtue of which moneys are now raised by grand jury pre sentment in Ireland, more particularly as relates to the recommendation to effect a saving cf 160,0001. in the ex penditure of the county rates in Ireland ? 2. Whether any steps have been taken consequent on the Report of the Commissioners of Inquiry, in respect to the convict department of Kilmainham prison, which established the fact of great extravagance and misapplication ofpublic moneys, under the Inspector of Prisons? - 3. Whether it was the intention ofher Majesty's Government to introduce a measure founded on the report of the Commission ap pointed to inquire into the common law courts in Ire land ? 4. Whether it, is the intention of her Majesty's Government to introduce any measure during the present session relative to ministers! money in Ireland y _ Lord ELIOT said thealteratio - ii and revision of the grand jury laws in Ireland, was an important and diffi cult subject. With respect to the adoption of the re commendation of the Commissioners, to which the Hon. Gentleman referred, he (Lord Eliot) could assure him, that very considerable diversity of opinion prevailed in Ireland, He was quite sure that if any measure were to be based on that recommendation, it would fail to meet with the support of •Junty Members. He would remind the Hon. Gentleman that there was at that moment on the table of the House, an experimental mea sure which was to lie applicable to the county of Dublin. That Bill had been framed with the intention of embody ing a great portion of the remniimendations of the Commissioners ; and he (Lord Eliot) hoped that it would become law in the course of the present session, for he thought it was very desirable that the House should ascertain the result of that experiment before they proceeded to apply a general measure of that description to all the counties of Ireland, He did not complain of the way in which the Hon. Gentleman bad put his ques tions, but they appeared to him (Lord Eliot) to partake of the nature of a statement. The Honourable Gentleman had, referred particularly to the recommendation of the Commissioners, having for its object the saving of 160,0001. per annum. There were several instances in which money had been saved. In one case 12,000/. had been saved out of fines and penalties. A sum of 16,0001 had been saved in the county of Dublin. He did not think that any legislation was necessary on the subject, if the recommendations of the Commissioners were carried into effect. With re gard to the second question, he begged to say that it was the intention of the Government to provide a separate place for convicts before their embarkation. With regard to the third question, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to introduce any measure relating to the common law courts, he begged to say that her Majesty's Government were not prepared with any measure on the subject. FACTORIES BILL. Mr. LABOIJCHERE said he had a question to put to the Noble Lord, the Member for Dorsetshire; he wished to ask what was his intention with respect to the amendment he had introduced into the Factories Bill? He wished to know from the Noble Lord what course he intended to pursue. Lord ASHLEY said—lt is my most sincere and ar dent desire to make any sacrifice of personal feeling, in order to do what may to the utmost conciliate my opponents, and render the amendment it was my good fortune to carry as little objectionable as pos sible. This morning, I had an interview with five or six considerable manufacturers, and likewise with several operatives, who represented the feelings of the operative manufacturing classes. I proposed to them a plan which am about to state to the House, and I am happy to say that it met their entire and hearty concurrence. On Friday next I shall take the liberty of entreating the House to affirm the proposition of ten hours' labour, by the substitution of the word "ten" for fi twelve" in clause Bof the Bill. Should the House affirm that proposition, I will prepare a clause which shall enact that the present duration of labour, twelve hours, shall continue from the time at which we may pass the clause for six months, till the Ist of October in this year. This will give six months' notice before any change takes place. From the Ist of October, this year, the period of labour I propose shall fall down to eleven hours, and continue at that rate for two years, or till the 12th of October, 1846, when the period of ten hours' labour shall commence. This will give ample time to test the experiment, and during the course of that time should any mischief rise out of the enactment, the House would have the means in its own hands of preventing the clause from running away with the interests of the manufacturers. The clause shall be prepared the day before the House goes into Committee, that Hon. Members may see the pre cise wording of the proposition I intend to make. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, that though it was not quite regular on his past to address the House, perhaps he should be pardoned if he said a few words. In the first place, it was most desirable that the House and the country should underst an d t h a t h e , an d h er M a j esty ' s Ministers, had now heard for the first time, the pro positions which the Noble L or d (A s hl ey ) h a d ex expressed his intention of submitting to the Committee ; but he (Sir J. Graham) had no hesitation in coming to the conclusion that it would be his duty on Friday next to resist the motion of the Noble Lord, and take the sense of the House upon the proposition of substitut ing- " ten hours " for " twelve." He might be permitted to add, with respect to the further proposition which the Noble Lord contemplated making, should the Noble Lord succeed in carry ing it, as he had his other proposal last night, the scope of that proposition had not removed the objection which he (Sir J. Graham) had urged against the other proposal, and it would be his duty to resist it to the utmost. ROYAL PROGRESS. Captain ROUS said that there was a report very Prevalent that her Majesty intended, about the month of May, to proceed to Berlin, on a visit to the King of Prussia. As such a proceeding on the part of her Majesty would materially affect the interests of a great portion of his uonstituents, he wished to know from the Right Hon. Gentleman whether there was any foundation for the rumour ? Sir ROBERT PEEL said that really there were so many reports abroad, totally destitute of foun dation, that he must protest against the practice of requiring a Minister of the Crown to find answers for these reports. It really gave a sort of sanction to these reports which was by no means proper. But as the Hun. Gentleman had said that he had heard the reports which he mentioned, and that they were injurious to the interests of his constituents, he (Sir R. Peel) had no objection to' state that he believed them to be entirely without foundation. COSIAISSARI AT ESTIMATES. X T . W. WlLLlAUS'incipired of "'the Right Hop. t-, .. , Baronet when the papers connected with the Commis sariat estimates would be ready to lay before the House ? Sir G. CLERK said that the documents were in the hands of the printers, and would be laid before the House next week. INDIA. Mr. MACAULAY inquired what had caused the delay in the presentation of the papers ordered respecting the late occurrences in India. Sir R. PEEL said he was sorry if any delay had taken place. but he had not peen certain whether the House should get the papers printed or not. The SPEAKER was understood to say that they should be printed by the Foreign-office. Sir R. PEEL again said he was sorry for the delay. POOR-LAW (SCOTLAND). Mr. E. ELLICE, junior, inquired of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J Graham) when the Commissioners of Poor-law Inquiry in Scotland would send in their report ? Sir J. GRAHAM understood from the Noble Lord at the head of the Commis ion thar,the report would Le ready to be laid before the House soon after the recess. THE TARIFF—FOREIGN RECIPROCITY. _ _ Mr. RICARDO rose to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice, to the effect—That an humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that her Majesty will be graciously pleased to give directions to her servants not to enter into any negotiations with fo • reign Powers which would make any contemplated altera tions of the tariff of the United Kingdom contingent on the alteration of the tariffs of other countries; and hum bly expressing to her Majesty the opinion of this House, - that the great object of _relieving' the commercial inter course between this 'country and foreign nations from all injurious restrictions would be best promoted by re gulating our own Customs' duties as may be most suitable to the financial and commercial interests of this country, without reference to the amount of duties which Foreign Powers might think it expe dient for their own interests to levy on British goods. The effect of the course which had been hitherto pur sued was altogether unsatisfactory. Having signally failed in obtaining their object by means of nego tiations to extend their exports, it became them to inquire whether they might not arrive at the same end by simple legislation on their imports. The treaties which were in question in 1842 were those with Brazil, with Portugal, Spain, and France. The fate of the first of these treaties had been most pathetically described by the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade. It was now clearly understood that the result of all these pro tracted negotiations with Brazil was a handsome propo sition on the part of the Brazilian Government not to raise the duties on our commodities more than 25 per cent., in return for concessions on our part. What the concessions were the Right Hon. Gentleman had not shown; but he ventured to say, however preposterous were the proposals of the Brazilian Government, those of our own Government were so in a four or five-fold degree. Great as was his respect for the abilities of the Noble Lord; at the head of the Foreign Department, and of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, displayed, as these last were so conspicuously, in making a good case out of bad materials, he could not imagine what arguments they had used in order to entice the Brazilian Government to adopt the course which they re commended. Certainly aproposition to reduce restrictions would not come well from a nation which had imposed a duty of 400 or 500 per cent. upon Brazilian produce.— (Hear, hear, and laughter.) A convention for the sup pression of slavery was one thing, and a treaty of com merce was another, and if slavery were the ground upon which they voted, he would suggest to the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it would not be best togrant compensation to the Brazilian slaveholders, as they had done to the West Indians.— (Hear.) In Spain they had done more than negotiate. Che Government of Spain could not but know that upwards of 300,000 of her people were employed in smuggling, and in smuggling only. And yet with every circum stance apparently in our favour to assist and encourage our commerce, it was a fact that we were further off our point than ever. British influence had never been so low in the Peninsula as at the present moment. The next commercial convention which had miscarried was that with Portugal, and he need not now point out the derangement in the wine trade which had been occasioned by it. Owing to this circumstance alone there had been a diminution in the usual quantity of wine, amounting to not less than 1,080,000 gallons. Those interested naturally remonstrated on the subject with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but, instead of redress, their position had been aggravated by a fresh impediment, which had grown up to a reduction in the duties on wines, in the shape of a drawback, which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had granted to the merchants. So that before any arrangement can be made with Portugal, for every one shilling of duty that may be reduced an enormous sum of money must be paid by us as compensation. This was what had been happily termed by the Honourable Member for Taunton (Mr. Labouchere), always ending, never ending. The Hon. Gentleman then referred to a paper which had been laid on the table 'of the House, containing a valuable series of commercial tariffs drawn up by Mr. Macgregor. A French gentleman, Mons. Saint Ferrier, had laid down the system of commercial policy pursued by France. Amongst other things, he said that in the negotiations of France with England, most of the con ditions proposed by the latter should be avoided. The French Government had lost great sums of money in fostering its own manufactures, which they might have had at less expense from other countries. It was usual to introduce some clause relating to commerce in most treaties. There was such a clause in the late treaty with America. Lord Ashburton had a clause introduced that the agricultural produce of Maine might be admitted on the same footing as the produce of the American colonies. But, Maine being now as much a portion of the United States as New York, the other States might claim to have their corn admitted en the same terms as that of Maine. The Right Hon. Baronet had admitted American rice on the same terms as the rice from the west coast of Africa. The Right Hon. Baronet admit ted, in answer to a question from the Noble Lord, the Member for London, that great difficulties existed in ne gotiating commercial treaties, and that even greater dif ficulties existed in negotiating them where constitutional governments and the representative system had existed. It was unwise and impolitic to wait to see what other countries would' do. It would be better for them to commence with their own Custom-house. M. Guizot, in answer to a question put to him by one of the Members of the Chamber of Deputies, announced his intention of not following the ignis fatuus of com mercial treaties, but would adopt such measures as might be necessary for the welfare of the country without reference to foreign countries. He also said that the modification of tariffs would produce all the benefit desired by all par ties in extending their commercial relations. If this were true, no person could find fault with him (Mr. Ricardo) for not bringing forward his motion before. With respect to Russia, a country which was surrounded by protective duties, he should say that their trade was much greater. The imports from that country amounted to five millions sterling, while the exports amounted to only 1,600,000/. It was asserted that this balance would have to be paid in gold, but he considered that a profitable trade could be carried on in gold. He thought there was no supernatural attribute in the word gold. The exports to Russia during the year 1841, consisted chiefly of cotton twist, sugar, coffee, wine, rum, and such articles, which came from the bonded warehouses in this country, where they were sent by the Brazilians, who received in return cotton, woollen, and other manufactures from England. If they could not find Ministers bold enough to carry out those principles which would tend to abolish restrictions which crippled trade, they might bid adieu to the greatness and prosperity which this country had so long enjoyed. He hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet would not content himself with contemplating the present years of plentiful harvests. He trusted, that the same causes which were in operation in past years were in operation now, and it was possible that they might have years of scarcity again. He hoped he would throw aside all the old principles of protection and monopoly, and see the absurdity and injustice of forcing the people into such costly sacrifices. He trusted that their Ambassadors would receive instructions to tell the different Courts of Europe that Great Britain had aroused herself from her delusions, under which she had so long laboured; that she now knew she could not sell without buying, or buy without selling ; that in using the productions of other countries they were only using their own in another shape. He hoped they would be able to say that all the ports of the country were opened, and that the only limits to their commerce were those which they them selves imposed. He concluded by proposing his motion. Mr. EWART seconded the motion. In referring to the history of commercial treaties, he asked what good result had this country ever obtained from them ? The first treaty to which he would refer was the cele brated Methuen treaty of 1703, Which was for a long time the wonder of the commercial world. The effect of it was to introduce into this country a taste for the wine of Oporto, which then superseded French wine, that until then was the only wine consumed in England. The next great treaty was that which was concluded with France in 1786, by Mr. Pitt, of which it was said that it was so advantageous to the English nation that the French ought never again to make a commercial treaty. He turned from our own country to other countries, and he asked whether the reduction of the duty on im ports had not been highly beneficial. The most obvious country in reference to this part of the question was the United States of America. For a long - series of years, while the United States of America were steadily pro gressing, their imports largely exceeded their exports, and the attention of one of the most acute observers of human nature, Dr. Franklin, was turned to the subject. He said, that if the importation of foreign luxuries could ruin a people, they, the Americans, would proba bly have been ruined long ago, for the British nation had claimed and exercised the right of importing, not only the superfluities of her own production, but of every nation under heaven. But setting aside these questions of the past, the simple question was, whether they. were likely to succeed in future. There appeared to be no approxima tion on the part of France towards a commercial treaty with this country. He believed that there existed in France, and in almost every nation in the world, an extreme ealousy of English commerce. The s am e thi ng prevailed in Germany. He did not believe that the ny approach towa r ds a connexion with them c U u n m it m ed ere S i t u a l t ceusunceoxnitueri.plaoteudr futurea could only consist in our throwing open our ports to them, and taking whatever we wanted, convinced that they would in the end take from us what ever they wanted, in return. He did not think that the answer of the Minister would be satisfactory to the country. The mind of the country was made up on the subject. The French Government had given a decided answer on the question, and her Majesty's Government ought to take the same course, and relieve the commerce of the country from the mischiefs occa sioned by the uncertainty. Mr. GLADSTONE did not think it would be difficult to show the House sufficient reason for refusing the motion. Whether he should be able to answer the honourable Gentleman to his own satisfaction, he did not know, for he did not quite under stand the terms of the motion. He thought he could satisfy the House that the motion ought not to be conceded, and that without disputing or even referring to a great many of the Hon. Gentleman's statements. The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the negotiations which had taken place between Great Britain and other countries. Now, he (Mr. Gladstone) did not think it necessary to enter with him (Mr. R.) into the policy of these negotiations. He did not think it necessary, because if he agreed with him that all these were use less, still he had not made out a case for a motion so broad as this. The Hon. Gentleman last year brought forward a motion that it was neither useful nor expedient to make commercial treaties ; but this motion was still larger, as it would go to declare, abstractly and without condition, that this Government ought never to enter into arrangements respecting tariffs with other countries. It would declare that no two countries could enter into any arrangements involving questions of trade. He thanked the Hon. Gentleman, however, on the part of his Right Hon. Friend for the high opinion he had ex pressed of him and which he believed to be deserved, and for the extreme charity of his judgment. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ricardo) in speaking of Brazil had ventured to say, that the proceedings of this country in the attempted negotiation with Brazil were absurd. Mr. RICARDO—NoJ said preposterous.— (A laugh.) • Mr. GLADSTONE—WeII, preposterous. He said that nothing could be more preposterous than that on the part of Brazil duties on certain articles, to the amount of only 40 per cent. should be charged, whilst in our tariff we charged 300 per cent. on some of the articles coming Brazil. Now, did the Hon. Member think that this was a fair representation of the case ? Why it was only the other evening that he (Mr. Glad stone), when discussing another question, had been called upon to show that the 40 per cent : duties of the Bra zilians were imposed not for the objects of revenue, but )r the avowed purpose of raising up a protective system. Surely that was a very different matter. Mr. RICARDO--4t comes to just the same thing. Mr. GLADSTONE then did not understand thdsub ject at all—he knew not the distinction between duties laid on for revenue and duties laid on for protection. However, that was a matter into which he would not further enter. The Hon. Gentleman had adverted to the case of Spain, and to the failure of every attempt to effect a - commercial negotiation with that country. He did not at all wish to disguise the particular objections which lay in the way of these negotiations. But he ought to have taken into his view all the special circum stances which affected Spain, and the difficulties which this Government had to encounter in a country where Government, at the best of times weak, had lately become powerless, as, unfortunately, recent events had but too clearly proved.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the case of America, and had said that one of the clauses of Lord Ashbur ton's treaty was likely to produce the worst effects; that was a question that he would not now go into, but he thought that the Hon. Gentleman had given a wrong interpretation of the clause he had alluded to with re spect to the State of Maine. The opinion he had formed on one of the clauses was entirely groundless; so also with respect to rice. With respect to Maine the privi lege given to it was one that had been given by treaties. The Hon. Gentleman appeared to think it unreasonable that they should stickle with the duties that had been put on by Portugal on goods the produce of this country, while they were placing a duty of 30 or 40 per cent. on the products of that country. Now for his own part lie thought there was no comparison between the two cases. He would not deny that there were great difficulties connected with the subject. The uncertainty itself was a great evil. The delay was an evil.--(Cheers.) He would not deny that, in certain cases, negotiations of this nature might give rise to hostile feelings. The negotiators might be apt to over-estimate the advan tages which they themselves offered, and to under-esti mate the advantages offered by others. He admitted that inconveniences might attend negotiations of this nature, and therefore he admitted that negotiations for commercial treaties ought not to be undertaken without some prospect of their being brought to a success ful termination. He had no desire to underrate the practical difficulties of the subject, but the question really raised by the Honourable Gentleman was this—Could commercial treaties, under any circumstances, be advantageous ? Because if it were possible to form an ad van t ageous commercial treaty, it would be most unwise in the House to preclude itself from taking advantage of such a circumstance, by consenting to this resolution. Now, the treaty with the Brazils was an advantageous treaty. He admitted that the treaty was in one respect an illustration of the ar gument of the Ilonourable Gentleman, because in later years it had tended to create a belief among the Bra zilians that they had been unjustly dealt with. No doubt in that treaty political countenance and eneou rq;ement had been exchanged for commercial advan tages, and when that political countenance was no longer necessary, those who had to pay for it, in the shape of commercial advantages, felt no doubt a degree of sore ness. The Hon. Gentleman said that the trade with Russia was as great as that with the Brazils. He de nied that such was the case ; but it should be recollected that the Brazils had a population of six millions, while Russia had a population of sixty millions. The stipula tion with regard to the limitation of duty in the Brazilian treaty, was a most advantageous one for the manufac turers of this country. The lion. Gentleman had referred to the commercial treaty with France, in 1787. Now, that was an example of a good commercial treaty. He 'wished to draw a distinction between occasional duties, and an indiscriminate system of commercial duties. He hoped that the present Government, and those who might in future govern, would profit by ex perience, and give to commercial treaties not mere than their due weight ; but that need not preclude the possi bility of making any treaties. The question was, whe ther abstract. propositions in commercial matters were the most convenient forms for expressing the opinion of legislative bodies upon - them. Instead of allowing cir cumstances their due weight, they were called on to tie up their bands, and put it out of their power to legislate at all. The Bon. Member talked of the spinning-jenny and steam-engine being abstract propositions ; he was not aware that either of them made their way into this world as abstract propositions. He thought they were the result of labour and invention, perfected by men who studied, and followed Nature, according the guide of cir cumstances. That was the principle on which he should wish to proceed. The doctrine sought to be laid down extended to all commercial treaties. He denied that no case could arise in which it might not be desirable to make a remission of revenue duty, without depending on the contingency of concessions made by foreign Powers. The Hon. Gentleman appeared to assume that because, as he said, he would gain his result in another shape, as in the case of Russia, from the shape in which it would be obtained in the case of India or America, that there fore it was a perfect matter of indifference in what shape it was obtained. He (Mr. Gladstone) admitted that the trade with Russia was beneficial to the country, but that it would be more beneficial if their tariff, instead of being almost restrictive, was more liberal. It was a great mistake to exclude from their view the purposes for which the commercial treaties had been completed. The Methuen treaty was a case in which the manifest result was, that they paid in hard money for real or supposed political advantages. The treaties entered into during the last two years had not been entered into with a view of establishing permanent systems of dif ferential duty. It had always been plainly avowed that the reductions would be extended to other countries. The negotiation with France five or six years ago was not undertaken merely with reference-to Sheffield and woollen goods. He believed the object was to break down the system. L e t th em watch the use of the means as much as they pleased, but let them not take from the Government the means of doing what, in given circumstances, would be a powerful instrument in producing a favourable change in commercial legisla tion. Unless the Hon. Gentleman could show that it was immaterial to this country whether other countries with which we dealt should have prohibitive systems or not—unless he could show that the treaty with Brazil had been injurious to our trade, and that the treaty en tered into with France had been injurious—he had no right to call on the House, in language perfectly clear and perspicuous, to affirm each and every one of those propositions which he (Mr. Gladstone) had mentioned. He, therefore, called on the House to reject the motion, and to affirm the principles of common sense, that if a commercial treaty was to be attended plainly with advantage it should not be refused in consequence of the Hon. Gen tleman's proposition. He again called on the House to reject the motion, and not to tie up their hands for the future, and shut the country out from the possibility of availing itself of advantages which might hereafter offer. Lord HOWICK had heard with satisfaction much of what had been said by the Right Hon. Gentleman. His Hon. Friend who made the motion did not more clearly show the impolicy and inconvenience of those negotia tions than the Right Hon. Gentleman himself. — (Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had expressed, with greater force and conciseness than he (Lord Howick) could attempt that inconvenience and impolicy. The only objection which the Right Hon. Gentleman alleged to the motion, and in which he called on the House to reject, was that there was a probability that a case might arise when it would be desirable to enter into a negotiation.—(Hear.) He (Lord Howick) con fessed that he was astonished to hear the Hon. Gentle man object to this motion on the ground that it was an abstract one.—(Hear, hear.) Would the Right lion. Gentleman inform him how anything could be less ab stract than this : that the House in the exercise of its constitutional right should address the Queen, praying her to exercise her prerogative in a certain manner, and to state the reasons why they asked her to do so ? They knew that the Government entered into negotiations with - out the House having any control, and then they called upon the House to give their sanction to what had been done. What then could be more proper —what less abstract than that the House should address the Queen on this subject, and state their reasons for doing so. It was the common, the proper, and the constitutional course for that or for the other House to give advice to her Majesty upon any subject which they might think justi fied or required such a step. The only question for them to consider was this—is that advice proper on the present occasion? He (Lord Howick) for one, was prepared to argue that it was. It was impossible to compare the language of the leaders of the great political parties in this country, and not be surprised at the practical re sults of their legislation. In the abstract—that was in their language—they were free-traders ; but in their practice, they were complete restrictionists. Hon. Gen tlemen opposite said, free trade - princii les were the principles of common sense—they said they ought to buy in the cheapest and to sell in the dearest Market. Though this was thcir general cloctrine, ihey did their best Y. 7 e n e wi l lj 9 t i the ITucountryconn with the Y most noxious and oppressive provisions. They laid upon our various branches of national industry the heaviest duties—duties which could be defended on no grounds of necessity, and on no sound political or com mercial principles. What was the reason for such conduct ? It was plainly this, that private interests were enlisted against the public good. It appeared to him, that the motion of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ricardo) was a motion calculated to be most eminently useful to the country ; but it was calculated to bring before the House, and the country, distinctly and separately from other questions, the policy of insisting upon what were terined• reciprocity concessions. If the House might judge of their conduct, there really appeared to be very slight grounds of difference between her Majesty's Go • 'eminent and those who supported the motion. The supporters of the motion held that all restrictions in trade were disadvantageous ; and that restrictions by other countries were just as disadvantageous as those in thii country. Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite held that it was injudicious to maintain high duties, and there by punish ourselves because other nations did so. No man had avowed that opinion more strongly than the Right Hon. Baronet himself did in his speech when he introduced the tariff. So far they were entirely agreed, and the only difference between them was re duced to this, first as to the expediency, even for a short time of submitting to the inconveni ence o f restric tion upon our own t ra d, in the hope of getting other countries to join with us in taking off the restrictions they imposed, and next as to what would be the best course to pursue for the purpose of placing the trade between this country and the other nations of the world upon that footing .which all agreed was desirable that it should be Owed. Now it appeared to him that if they ad • mitted that it was inexpedient to punish ourselves by high duties, because other nations imposed high duties on our produce, it was hardly possible to avoid the conclusion that it was necessary at once to make the change ; because time was a very material element in this case. If they admitted that the system was punishing themselves, and that it was unwise per manently to continue it, he could not conceive how they could reject, even for a day, that relief which was available to them, and which would better the population of this country. He could not conceive how they could do this under the vague expectation that by main taining the system they would get other countries to join them in the establishment of perfect freedom. It appeared to him that this must be a mistake, arising from misconception as to the relative importance of re striction upon our imports and exports. Her Majesty's Government seemed still, with all the advances they had made in the doctrine of free trade—they still seemed not entirely to have shaken off the old notion, that it was the export trade that was the most advantageous, and that what was long ago called a favourable balance of trade was desirable. It was no iv nearly three quarters of a century since that theory was exploded by every educated man ; yet something of this opinion still hung on the minds of statesmen, and still seerned to be the governing influence of the conduct of nations. We still seemed to think that the exports were really the most advantageous. Now he entirely concurred with the Hon. Gentleman behind him, that the real value of trade lay in the imports, and not in the exports. —(hear.) The first question to be considered was, what amount of goods they were able to obtain for the consumption of the population.—(Hear, hear.) The export trade was no doubt important, but it was 60 only as a means by which they were enabled to obtain their imports. It was a most extraordinary course of policy that they should refuse to receive imports because they were not quite certain that there would be no difficulty hereafter in providing the means of 'Payment. Now he would ask whether that difficulty had been particularly felt hitherto?—(Hear, hear.) It was enough to state that for a considerable time we had been carrying on what was called a triangular system of trade, by means of the smuggler. The greater facility they gave to the introduction of foreign goods into this country it was clear that a corresponding extension of the export trade must follow. That was a truth which seemed to him to rest upon the most obvious principles of the commonest arithmetic. For his part he did not deny that extrava gant duties existed in foreign countries, and he thought that by such duties those nations not only obstructed the progress of civilisation, but also prevented them selves from benefiting by ie produce of other nations. —(Hear, hear.) It was in that sense only that he be lieved those duties were injurious to us. The grounds for such a cause of policy therefore appeared to him to be almost inconceivable. In con s id er i ng t hi s question he had derived considerable advantage from the state ments of Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite, and he thought lie (Mr. Gladstone) had stated the grounds for antici pating what would be the result of commercial treaties. Ile (Lord Howick) would appeal to experience upon this subject. Ever since the termination of the war we had been engaged in one unceasing course of negotiations. We had lost no opportunity. Our ablest Ministers at home and abroad— Mr. Canning, the Noble Lord the Member for Tiverton (Lord Palmerston), the Earl of Aberdeen, the Duke of Wellington, the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir Robert Peel), and some of the most distinguished men this country ever produced, had, for a period of nearly thirty years, been engaged in attempts to negoti a t e ad vantageous commercial treaties with other countries. W hat had been the result ? Why, that at this time we were no better off than at the beginning. Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite themselves admitted that there was a growing desire upon the part of foreign countries to throw obstructions in the way of trade. What would have b..en the-result if a different course of policy had been pursued by Great Britain ? Suppose that at the end of the war no negotiations of any sort had been entered into—suppose we had commenced by reducing all our duties to as low a point as revenue considerations would allow. If that course had been taken in 1815—. if they hid dealt on that principle with Brazilian sugar, with Prussian corn, with Baltic timber—did they think that they would have driven foreign countries to the ne cessity of adopting a commercial system of so exclusive a character as they had ? He believed no man would contend that such would have been the case.—(Hear.) Although this course had not been pursued hitherto, it was nut too late to adopt it now. Let them teach other countries by example, not by precept.—(Hear, hear). That would be the practical result of the motion of his Hon. Friend. It was not an abstract proposition, but was one eminently calculated to be useful to the country. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Gladstone) admitted the general impolicy of commercial negotia tions, but he said " Do not tie up the hands of the Go vernment, for it is not probable"—(The Right Hon. Gentleman knew it was not probable)—" but it is pos sible, that a case may arise in which we may be able to conclude advantageous commercial treaties." The Right Hon. Gentleman then referred to examples, and the first to which he adverted was a treaty in 178, with France. He (Lord Howick) did not question the advan tage of that arrangement. Although he was a great ad mirer of Mr. Fox; he must admit that, as a commercial Minister, Mr. Pitt was superio r t o hi m ; b u t h e (L or d Howick) believed that if the treaty of 1787 had not been entered into the result would have been more beneficial to this country. If we had 'then adopted a liberal po licy, and had left France to follow our example had she pleased, at this moment the beneficial effects of such a course would have been visible. The Right Hon. Gentleman's next example was the treaty with Brazil. Now the Right Hon. Gentleman himself was obliged to admit that, in point of fact, that treaty with Brazil gave her no commercial advantages, as they were called, while it required a great deal of her in order to secure our p!itical Countenance. That he (Lord Howick) thought was the strongest condemnation of the treaty that could be found.—(Hear.) He firmly believed that if, instead of driving this hard bargain with Brazil—if, instead of doing that, they had liberally admitted her produce, and shots n her the same poli tical countenance, only giving in return what, accord ing to the opinion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, was little better than a bribe—if they had given freely their political countenance, and admitted her produce, he believed they would have obtained greater commercial advantages than they had enjoyed from that time to this. Ile believed that now, in the year 1844, there would have been no reason to apprehend that Brazil would impose differential duties with respect to our commodities. lie believed that they would not have had to apprehend that Brazil would impose a duty of 40 per cent. on British commodities. But further than thi,- lie said that he was prepared to tie up the hands of the ' Government on this point, and he was prepared to lay down a rule, that commercial treaties ought not to be entered into. He would do this in such a manner, as to show to foreign nations that this country did not merely disclaim any attempt to enter into treaties which they thought they could not get but in such a manner as to show that there was a bona fide pre ference of the principle of dealing largely and liberally with all the nations of the world. If they acted on that principle—it they said we want no com mercial treaties—we want no stipulations with foreign countries as to the rates of duty to be levied on our goods, bid we will proceed at once to adjust our duties with regard to the financial interests of this country— if they did this, he (Lord Howick) was persuaded that the result would be, that the trade of this country would make such an immediate spring, and such an ex tension of our present export trade would ensue—he did not say at once, but in the course of a very few years—that other nations would see the wisdom of fol lowing our example. He believed that the feeling which now influenced the conduct of foreign countries, which had been so graphically described by the Right Hon. Gentlemar, would no long er b e ca ll e d i nto play. The monopolyinterests in foreign countries—the iron interest of France, for instance—would no longer be enabled to enlist, in support of that monopoly, the angry passions of a great portion of the com munity, The commercial policy of foreign coun tries would be so influenced, that in a very short time—in the course, he believed, of a very few years—the practical effect of their adopting the policy which he recommended would be, that trade in this country would be relieved of extravagant rates of duty in foreign countries on our goods, which were now levied. He asked thorn, was it a satisfactory answer to them, now he wished to secure those great advantages, by the adoption of a liberal, a generous, and a manly system of commercial policy—now, when he wished to secure those great advantages, was it a satisfactory a nswer to him, fur the Right HOD. Gentlemen opposite to say—" Don't tie up the hands of the Government. It is not probable, but it is possible, that the case may arise when we may conclude some commercial treaty ; and, for the sake of that possibility, surrender those large and great advantages we have now in our power to secure ?" lie (Lord Howick) said that the adoption of that e.ddress to the Queen, by the House, would be a most important step with reference to the civilization of the world at large—(Cries of " Hear, hear")—it would be a pledge in the face of Europe and 'the world, that this, the first commercial nation in the universe, was determined to give up her narrow and restricted system of commercial policy. It would be a pledge binding upon them in future time, and therefore it would give confidence to foreign countries, and furnish a strong inducement for them to follow our example. i~ , i= ,!`: ~ _ ' ~~ `~ ,%_ ~ . a N t ~ ~r The motion of the Hon, Membeillil4gticitWeilaky well-timed; first, because it was introduced when the long protracted negotiations with the four great com mercial nations had utterly and lamentably failed—nor was there any prospect of these negotiations being re sumed with success. Now the ground was clear before them—they had given a trial of thirty years to one sys tem of policy. Let them give as fair and as long a trial to the system proposed ; but he was convinced it would prove eminently successful before a fourth part of that period had expired.—(Hear. hear.) But the motion was well-timed in another sense, because it was impossible for any man to look around him and behold the present state of the country without being convinced of the urgent ne cessity there existed for the extension and improvement of commerce. It was true the distress was not as great as it had been two years ago. He was happy to believe that trade had revived to a great extent—that there was, in some measure, a return of commercial prosperity ; but no man, who looked deeply into th© condition of the country, would say that it was sistl s .. factory. Were not the rate of wages and the profits of capital ruinously low ? That the profits were low was proved by the measure which the Right Hon. Gen.. tieman . the Chancellor of the Exchequer had brought forward a few evenings ago. Ile agreed in the approba - tion which had been bestowed on the measure for the. reduction of the Three-and-a-Half psr Cents, but the high prices of the funds, which caused the introduc tion of that measure, must be regarded as any thing but satisfactory. The high prices of the: funds proved that there was great difficulty in finding the means of profitable investment for capital.—(Hear.) When there was a low rate of profit there was a low rate of wage , . The Hon. Member for Stockport had adverted, a few even;ngs ago, in the course of his bril liant and unanswerable speech, to the low rate of wages in the agricultural districts of the south of England, and he v ry properly observed, that he threw no blame on the employers.—(Hear, hear.) He said the low rate of wages did not depend on the will of the einlaoy ee , but on causes far deeper. That was his (Lord liowick's) - opinion too. The same state of things had existed some years ago, and the cause was admirably described by the lamented Mr. Huskisson, who said it arose from the great pressure on the springs of productive industry, The same state of things existed now from the same cause.—. (Hear, hear.) It was the great pressure on the springs of productive industry that caused the low - wages of the Dorsetshire labourers, and the miserable earnings of the 1 London semptresses.—(Hear, h ear. ) The Rigt Hon. Baronet told them last ni g ht th at wages and profits were 1 I ground down to so low a state that they could not afford to make any restriction in the hours of labour, even in protecting females from over eNertion, which, in the all. stract, was most desirable. That pressure on the springs of productive industry arose now as then from a defi ciency in the field for the employment of labour and of capital, It was their restrictive laws which prevented that field from being enlarged_it was , these laws that kept down profit and labour to the lowest point. And, therefore it was those restrictive laws which it should be the first object of every man to get rid of. As one of the most important steps towards accomplishing that object, he should concur with his Hon. Friend in laying down the rule that they should not unite for what was termed reorprocity of concession from foreign countries, but ought at once, trusting that other nations would follow our example, (eke into serious consideration tlis means of consistently, and upon general principles, re ducing the rate of Custom duties as far as revenue pur poses would allow them.—(Loud cheers.) Sir J. HANMER, after complimenting the Noble Lord on the ability and force of his speech, said he could not agree in the principles enumerated by the Noble Lord. He thought this country should not be altogether indifferent to commercial negotiations, and he thought to them it owed much of its greatness. Why should we allow corn and cotton to come free from the banks or the Mississippi to our ports, whilst they maintained their present high tariff; or what guarantee had this country that America, or the European States would renounce their import duties, some of which were al-- most prohibitory, if we adopted ever so liberal and uts— restricted a system? This Government should not be indifferent to the reciprocity of concession. A great authority, Lord Ashburton, had declared in 1833, when. presenting the great petition from the merchants of London, that reciprocity was by no means to be disre garded.—(Hear.) He was quite as anxious as Hon. Members opposite to extend the trade of this country, and promote its commercial prosperity, but lie did not think the course at present proposed would have a ten dency to affect those objects, and he should therefore op pose it, Mr. HUME said it must be very gratifying to the House to learn that the Hon. Member was desirous or extending the commerce of this country. He thottOt: neither the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the (to vernment, nor the Right Hon. Gentleman the President; of the Board of Trade, had—judging from their argu ments—read the motion of his Hon. Friend, for not one point adduced by him, he thought, had been answered by them. The Hon. Member was about entering into some financial details, to prove the injury which those restrictions inflicted upon the commerce of this country,. when, An HoN. MEMBER moved that the House be counted, and only thirty-nine Members being present, the House adjourned at a Quarter to Eight o'clock. GREAT MEETING at COVENTRY. COVENTRY, MARCH 18.—The proceedings which took place here to-day were in everyway of an important and impressive character, whether as regards the case of Mr. O'Connell, the cause of Ireland, or the vindication of great public rights. The meeting was held in St. Mary's II:01, which. though crowded in every part, did not appear sufficion.r. to accommodate the great numbers who attended; awl the consequent pressure of such an assemblage, within a space so comparatively small, as regarded the num— bers, produced considerable confusion at one period of; the meeting. At one o'clock Mr. O'Connell arrived, and was ro. ceived with immense cheering, the whole mectting rising and continuing to repeat their plaudits for aeverai minutes. T. B. TROUGHTON, Esq. (the town-clerk) read the requisition, after which J. S. WITTEM, Esq., (the mayor), was called to the chair by acclamation. His Worship said, as it was the first occasion on which he was called to preside over a meeting of this description since his accession to he should feel it necessary to state that he felt it his duty to listen to the free expression of opinion upon the part of his fellow-townsmen, and he should be very happy to? afford them every facility for addressing the meetung.. He could not allow this opportunity to pass without ex pressing his deep sympathy with the sufferings of the. Irish people, and his sincere desire that Englishmen. would unite in their exertions to render the union betwe England and Ireland not a parchment union solely, but a union of feeling and affection, based upon ttie pro sperity of both nations.—(Cheers.) The Rev. Mr. Gonnox then proceeded to address the meeting ; but, after a few sentences, during which his voice was very indistinctly heard in the Hall, there were loud cries from persons at a distance that they could not hear him. In order to obtain a better position for hear ing, a movement took placo towards the platform, and this, by pressing on those in front, caused considerable inconvenience, and produced amongst a large number a desire to adjourn to the open air, as the meeting was so, numerous. The confusion created by these occurrence& lasted for a considerable period, and was prolonged by a few individuals who evidently came for the purpose of availing themselves of the inconvenience that the pres sure at such a meeting must necessarily create, to pro duce noise and disorder. Mr. O'Connell endeavoureti to induce those in the body. of the meeting to keep their places, but the pressure and inconvenience were so great that it was difficult, for a long time, to obtain order. At length, the excitement having been, in some degree, allayed, the Mayor came forward, and assured the meeting that, as soon as possible after the restoration of silence, Mr. O'Connell would address them. Order was immediately restored, and preserved throughout remainder of the proceedings, during which the ..,incon veniences of the , crowded meetin g were submitted to vitt ta the greatest good humour. Mr. GORDON then moved the first resolution ; 'which was as follows :—" That this meeting records its mutt pathy with the grievances, both civil and eccltsiastical„ which a long course of misgovernment has inflicted upon the sister-kingdom of Ireland, and pledges itself to every g legal exertion for the purposes o f obtairling for that kin - dom measures of redress, based upon, the principle of ex tending complete and equal justice to all classes and sects seconded by of her Majesty's subj ec t s ." The resolutio n was Mr. HANNELL, and carried unanimou s ly. The Rev. J. SIBREE proposed the next resolution, which was—" That this meeting hereby expresses its deep sense of the i n j ust i ce i nvolved in the late trial of Daniel O'Connell and others for conspiracy, believing that both as to the principles on which it was founded, and the manner in which it was conducted, it was a vio lation of the constitutional liberties of the people of this realm." It was seconded by Mr. ATKINS, and carried by ac clamation. Mr. BUCKNEY, in an excellent speech, p ro p ose d t h at a petition, embodying the resolutions, should b e a d opte d by the meeting for presentation to Parliament. The resolution was seconded by Mr. Alderman SMITH,. and unanimously agreed to. Mr. O'CoIoTELL then came forward to the front of the platform,. and was received with an unan i mous b urst of approbation, quite equal in warmth and cordiality of feeling to those which greeted him at Birmingham and Covent-garden. Th e H on. and Learned Gentlenuri said—The Rev. Gentleman who spoke last:told you, with much eloquence and some comicality, that E was already sentenced, and that my punishment was to be sent to Coventry. Why, I am free to confess that, at one• time to-day, I was inclined to believe that it might: be looked on as a punishment to be sent to Co— ventry, and during some anxious moments I inigl - m have been disposed to have regretted that I male. here? Why do I allude to this circumstance now? I do so, because I wish more strongly to express the . de— light with which I view thi s unanimous expression your feelings, which i s ev i nce d b y th e meeting now before me.—(Great chee r i ng .) l a m n o t infl uence d in this deli g ht and satisfaction by any paltry, perso na l motives ? No—l am influenced dbyo n foatr appear higlier h a e n r d 4. l nobler motives.—(Hear, hear.) did not come here as an individual merely repre senting my own opinions —no, I come here as the re presentative of the people of Ireland, which i s ev i nce d by the meeting now before me, for it shows that any casual occurrence which took place could not be viewed as an indication of a want of sympathy with the , people of Ireland.—(Loud cheering.) Ido not appear,- here—l did not come here as an individual represent=ng only his own views and opinions. No, I came hern tuated by higher, and better, and far nobler niotiws came here as the representative of the people a Ireland. I same here as the advocate of my fellow-countryw .en, and. not as the advocate of my private interest.-.J Cheers.) )if . w iir • I y It:: ~.. , ‘'sz.,