The Sun. — London, England, 1803-12-10 00:00:00

f r NT.::e.r!IER 4504. If IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. FRIDAY, DECEMBER 9. Couxstt. were heard at considerable length fin . the Appel. lant, on the Appeal Cause from the Court of Chancery Joseph English Keighly v. the East India Company.—After Which their Lordships deferral the farther hearing of the Case till Tuesday. Mr. ilostioust, accompanied by several Members, brought up the following Bills from the Commons, via. The Annual Indemnity Bill, the Malt Tax, he Place and Pension Duty, the Sugar Bounties Drawback, the East India Bonds Duty, the Bank of Ireland Restridion, the Habeas Corpus Suspension Bill, and the Irish Martial Law Continuation Bills. They were severally read a first time ; the two last men. tioned Bills were, on the Motion of Lord HA wicessuay, ordered to be printed ; his Lordship at the sank? time gave notice of his intention to move for the second reading of those Bills (as the Measures were intimately connedeAwith each other) on Monday next. The Earl of DARNLEY, previous to the Order of the Day being read, wished to obtain some infer. matiun on a Subjrit confessedly of the highest. im. pottsnee: seeing the Noble Secretary of State in his place, he would take that opportunity. The sub. jed in his contemplation was such as that not only that House, but many thousands of 'His Majesty's subjeds must regard with the utmost concern. He alluded to the Volunteers, respetting whom, he begged leave to ask, if it was the intention of 111 4 - • Majesty's Ministers to propose any general Regulations previous to the ensuing Recess. Lord lIAWKESBURY shortly replied, that he knew of no intention at present on the part of His Majesty's Government to propose any specific mea. sure, previous to the Recess, of the nature to which . the Noble Earl alluded. The Earl of DARNLEY resumed the topic : he by no means whited, he said, to pin the Noble St- CRETs.II7 of STATR down to any particular time for proposing such a measure as he had alluded to; he was fully aware, not only of the importance but of the delicacy of the subjed. He repeated the anxious view in which it was very generally re, garded. It was not his intention, however, then to go into any detail upon the subjeCt, but there were one or two prominent points, which struck him so forcibly, that he could not refrain from ad. vertitig to them, and endeavouring to press them On the a ttention of the Noble SECKETARY, 'as re quiring the most serious consideration of His Ma. jesty'r, Ministers, and calling for adequate 'Vila. lion. He first adverted to the consideration of the. way in• which the services of several Corps were originally accepted on the part of Government, which certainly appeared to him to have been done on liberal principles, with respect to allowances, &c. but in regard to those' he had to observe, that a syste m had been latterly aded upon, which ap. ,peaked to him to be the reverse of the former con. dud . of Government in that respell. The second consideraticin to which the Noble Earl principally adverted, and which he seemed to regard as one of extreme delicacy anti importance, was the idea of the force in question, appearing, in some points of •view, as a species of Military Democracy. Ha thought it incumbent on him thus early to throw out those considerations, as meriting the most se. rious and anxious attention on the part at His Ma. jesty's Government. The Noble Earl also alluded to certain difficulties which had arisen under the present Volunteer system, which he thought it would he important speedily to obviate what he seemed principall7 to advert to, Was the re gulation .of exemptions, &c. Lord ;if ATKESBURY, in the course of his re. I ply, obscOed, that he should avoid at present enter ! ing into 'any - detailed' view whatever of the subjelt. He agreed with the Noble Earl as to the great int' portanee of the subjeft ; it was one therefore which naturally attraded the serious attention of His Ma.. jetty's GovernMent : their Lordships, however, would be at the same time aware of the complexity and intricate nature of the general subjeti,the variety Of details which it embraced, and the correspondent difficulty of forming adequate regulations. He agreed also with the Noble Earl, that 'certain diffi. culties had arisen in the progress of that system of measures, but of that nature as that they could not fairly bc'expdled to be in the contemplatitin at the time, of those by whom, under the circumstances of the case, the Bill was originally framed 4 He repeat. ed that' the subjeli certainly occupied the serious attention of His Majesty's Ministers—but while he Ovule thin avowal, he wished to be understood, as by no means' committing.. himself with respeitt to the in t rodu&ion of any specific measure upOn'the subjeft. The Earl of DARNLty and the Noble SacttErA. Rl' of StAt it. spoke severally in explanation. I'he Order of the Day being react,- their Lord. ships resOlvecl into a Committee on the Bank. Re. atrinion 13111, Lord W ALSINO HAM in the Chair. ;The different Clauses and Provisions'of . the Bill were regOlarly gone through, and approved by the Committee. • On the eonsideration . of the Preamble of the Bill s Lord KING rose, and made a variety of ohtervi. tione on the general ittbjell. • [lad he been.preseint at the second reading of the Bill yesterday, he said he wOuld 'hive brought forward some arguments Which iota 'him fOrcitily as 'militating.against the principte'',ofilie BM: the present not being the regtflar oppartitnity forAiSeqtssiog the principle;he should sty very little orfthat head. He however could not 11101 cl expte_ssitig"hia ' surprise that a Bill of this .nature and importinei; should have adrianced so far in its progress in that licluse without any OileOli being assigned for its passing, or without any information whatever on the subjed being laid before their Lordships, to evince the necessity for continuing he tnastsure. Some reasons should,' hethoughti he assigned for the necessity of such a measure' being Fessed, in the present, beyond that of any former War) Of of any period prior to.the year I 7.71.4 hen THE 4 ~. e,,,, SU , '. '. - ..,-• ~ . .i.--.. ,-,...........A, ,4%, ~, • / • •-.4,01 , .'T . '-' / ./.%, ii;! • .. ~, '.:, • ' • PI ' . HOUSE OF COMMONS. FRIDAY; DEC. 9, After a few words in farther explanation between Lards GRENVILLE and I-lAwxesnukv, it was a&reed to fix the third reading of the Bill, in the first inst,rce, for Monday. Adjourned till l'u.tnlrrow. Ttte SPILAKYR informed the House that he had communi cated to the Lord Lieutenants in Great Britain, and to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland the Thanks of that I (wise to the Volunteer Corps of Great liritaits awl Ireland, and that he had received answers from several of the Lord Lieutenants, and front the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, containing the ac knowledgments of those Corps ter the Thanks of the Mr. Fortes, from the Exchequer, presented an account of monies issued in pursuance of Addresses of that House, and not made goad by Parliament.---Ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. HOXHOUSZ brought up the Report of the Portugal • %Vine bonding Bill,which was read and agreed . to, and the read a third time and passed. Sir FR A Nets Bunn rrr brought up the St. Pancras Vestry Bill, which was read a brat time. A new Writ was ordered fur West Lone, in the room of T nom t ru, Esq. who kit. accepted the Chiltern hun dreds. _ . • Mr: HENRY THORNTON moved, that 'ltlv!.•.COHlrOittee•,oo the Sierra Leonb'Petition shoirld have leave to sit during any adjourmnent of the House.— Ocdert:d. Tice Malt Tax, the .Pension Duty Bill, the Exchequer Bills Bill, the I:Apiting Lws Bill, the I rish •Provision hill, the Irish and English St ear Drawb.l Bill, and tile Irish Promissor) Note Bill, were severally read a Writ time and passed. The London -Dock Bill was read a second time and conat. mated to' a select Committee. The Curates Relief Hill was ientl a third time, and passed. Mr. Secretary Yoaict presented Returns at the Yeomanry 'and Volunteer Corps us Cleat Britain and Ireland; whose services had bean accepted by tits MA . ) EST Y. Ordered toile on the Table, and to be printed. The Irish Oats DiStilljpoil.l4ill.was read a third time, and .passed. _ _ SATURDAY, DECEMBER 10, 'BO3. the measure of Restriftion was originally adopted. His Lordship then entered into a variety of calcula tions, respefting the issue of Paper at different pe riods, and the prices of Bullion, value of Coin, &c. with a view to show the injurious tendency of such a measure as that before their Lordships ; and he expatiated upon the necessity of keeping up the cir culation of the Country in a respettable state, but which, he observed, was ,at certain periods, to which he adverted, considerably depreciated. He intended to propose one or two regulations, in the way of Amendments to the present Bill :—the first of which would have the salutary effeft of restrain. ing the Bank DireCtors, to a certain degree at least, from abusing the great discretionary power which the Bill vested in them, with roped to the issue of Paper : the regulation would go to require the Di_ rectors to make a Monthly Return, either to Par. liament, or specifically in the London Gazette, of the amount, &c. of Notes in circulation, suppose on the 25rh•day of •.each Month. Another point which he should have to 'press on the consideration of the }louse, was the state of the Circulation, to which ever► possible degree of attention should be paid. He concluded by moving, as an Amend. j ment, a Proposition, requiring the DireElors of the Bank to make periodical Returns, as above alluded to. Lord WALSINQ HAM informed the Noble Lord, that in the then ace of the proceedings of the Committee, such a proposition could not regularly be considered. His Lordship would have an op. portunity, on the occasion of the Report being made. The Bill being gone through, the House re. sumed ; and the Report was forthwith. made, and taken into consideration. Lord KING then regularly moved his Amend. meat as above. .Lord 1-I.4II7(ESTURY deemed it unnecessary to follow the Noble Lord, through the greateifpart of what he had advanced, as, being partly applicable to the principle of the Bill, .which was not then under discussion, and as partly foreign from the subjed. regularly under consideration : there existed, how. ever, a great and an obvious necessity for the pre. sent measure : the Bill proceeded on similar grounds with that of 170, and at least an equal necessity existed, for the Restritlion now as then. The pe. riod of the present Bill was somewhat different from that of the above year, and was in its nature more definite. 'He differed from the Noble Lord as to the causes. assigned by, him for the unfavourable state of the Exchange at diffetent. periods. He had softie serious objedions to eht adoption of the Regulation proposed by the Noble Lord; first, there was no such provision deemed necessary . in s any of the former Bills which had been enacted on the sohjett, though any reasons which might now apply for its adop. lion, obtained at former periods to equal force.— Secondly, As the Bank Direttors had never in the smallest degree abused the discretionary power vested in them, they were, on the contrary, al. ways most willing to come forward with every ne. cessary information on the subjea, and they never shrunk •from any inquiry whatever: • He addition. ally objected to the proposition, as it would tend, (though pethaps such a thing might not be in the Noble ;Lord's contemplation) to retied upon the Direaors,. a body who, so far from meriting any refledicin upon their contlud, had uniformly des. charged - the trusts reposed in them with prudence, caution, and circumspeition. However, the House would be aware, that in negativing the Motion of the Noble Lord, neither he, nor any other Peer) went. precluded from coming forward at subsequent pe. dads with motions for specific informatiott:pponthi subject ; mid, - indeed, such proceedingsAlud taken place, in many instances, on'the suggestions of Mem bers of both Houses of Parliament. On the' whole, he deernedit his duty to oppose the Noble's:Lord% motion.' An explanatory conversation then ensued, be. tween Lord KING and the Noble SBCRISTARY of STAir, in the course of which the former • oh,: served, that the circumstance of such a provision not being in the fanner Bills, .oaf no reasoo what: ever against its introduition'into the present—such a principle would militate against all legislative im: provement whatever. ;,. , . • . 404.11/IWICESBIIRY Contended, that such a c ons ideration Was a reison• against the adoption of the clause, inasmuch as the omission 'of the pravi. shin in the fernier Bills, was produdive of nti in. Orion; tendency whatever, nor of any ground of complaint. With resped to the Unfavourable stated the course of Exchange at the periods alluded to; it Was by no means to be attributed td the issue of paper' from the Bank, but in a great degree to the immense mnia - which were necessarily sent out of the Country' at the time for the payment Of 'nib: sidieS; , And in consequenCe of ,the alarming scarciti Whia4heiVprivailed. On the question heing put ',opening the third reading of tlie Bill, • - ZontORENPIL expressed his opinion, with: Out iinaning in the lean' to' resist the progress of it'd . Bill; that the passing of such a measure ss the prese6l'diould not be regarded is a matter ofcoarse in that House. He showed hove ro offer a feW 'ob servations', which - he thooghr it' incumbent on - hint to' advance, on the Occasion of the dint - reading, respeeting. the measute, - • and Mate especially ,on , poinf r i Of' considerable Importance • conneded the tinhjA :of. the Bill, He should therefore pro peat that the hitt beJeatl' a third' tune on ,Monday. Lord 11/11rKa 'BURY observedi that lie bad no objediao to postpone. the third reading of the Bill till ;Mpoiiay, but as 'there .stood some impottant - amortising business for',that.dity, which posOly might take up some time, liesogge!ted that "lUes.. day would be a prvkrable day. N. ARMY ESTIMATES. The SICRITARY at WAR moved the Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into a Coin. o sitee of Supply, to which the Army Estimates were ordered to be referred. . The House resolved itself 'into a . coMmi tee, Mr. HoaHouse in the Chair., . . •'„ The SIiCRET ARV at WAR , said, it was unne- - cessary for him, to take up much of the time of the Cominittee, as the greatest part of the Services for which it would Ise his duty to move Votes of S u p, ply, had already received the sandion of Parliament. He should confine bireself. to . s t a ting the ki ffr re nce oetweert the V,,otes,now proposed, arid those of last year. With reaped ttsthe first item, that of Guards and Garrisons, the,number voted last Session; pare.. ly at an early period, and partly. at a subsequent time, amounted in the thole to 108.901,.,the amount of t, the present Estio4it was 167 4 669. making a differ. errs of 58,768. This. difference .appeared'tube large, but the greater part of theatigmentation arose from the Army of Reserve,..from i which an addition had been made •roshe-Regular F0rec0139,4.77 men:v 0f these 19. new Battalions had been tor Med of rOOO men each, : atal 16 Reserve Battalions of 700 men each. The whole of the augmentation there. fore amounted to r 2,455. , The Life. Guards and Horse Guards had been augmented; 24 Regiments of Dragoons had been augmented 42 2 men, the other Regiannts of Dragoons had been augmented two Troops ; an addition had been made to the three Regiment! of For Guards, and the Regiments of the Line,. and other sindll additions had also been made. These were the only additions that had been made to the regelar Establishment of the Army. With respeCt to the next item, that of General and Staff Officers, there was an addition of ,expence of 154,6411. this was undoubtedly, large, but when it was considered the number of Officers of that description whom it was necessary to employ, the .number of Brigades and of. Brigade Officers, this sum would by eo means appear, too large. The next item the,,embotlied Militia, and FenCible In. fatitry, which amounted to 169,447, and the other theVolunteerCorps. lie had omitted however stat. ing the augmentation to the- Regular Force in Ire. Land. The Army of Reserve thereotttached to the Regular Force, amounted to .1.0.5 . 5;-•-1827 had been added to the-Dragoolis and Walloon Guards, and other small• additions. The Estimate of the expence of the Volunteer Corps was ttiViticti into two heads: the first * those of Great- ilritain, and the other, those of Ireland. With respect to Great Britain, it was rather a loose ,calpulation, as it was ble to state: with s sudicient. accuracy the atlual ' pence.-- The Committee would be. aware that the increase stukve ',the .enetice•:a last year was not before die House., The eresent Estimate, found. ed upon general calculation, .emounted,,to 730,000. It appeared,: luovaver,, by, the Return of the Vo, lunteer-Corpstni Great 'which he . had that momerW tosen,.-11tat they amounted to no lege than. 379.943...,._ caleolat tog the expence,' the number heti been taken at .320 1 00(); it would, there. fore; of course appear, that, the attual expence was very likely to exceed the Estimate—it was how. ever to be; olitterve4 that ,out of the number of Va. lunteera, 4;05 t 4 terved without any pay whatever. Forty-six thousand Infantry, ; and, .22,000 Cavalry, had-been established on the. regulations of June last, and 5 z 57 onsthe allowattecs made since. The expence of Pay.aod cloething, taking the various periods of duty whiehtfisight lieppen to arise when the Volun, leers weeetallettonduty,..wastvery likely to increase the Estimate. Amongst the items of expence vela,. t lw l i i vh e l l e s th e o s tshele:7tatss V ol unte er e ll e C :l : )e rs n ia" e l e . haw af a i t h w eetn a e Al c g4 ( c E d s cu i y cl i e °l r vafflebel o f but upon the whole a saving accrued from it of 20,0001. a year. With yespett to Ireland, the Stale of that Coentey r stitd , the various, services upon which the Volunteers had been called, rendered the expence mote considerable in proportion. In this tt Estimate snore Volunteers were calculated upon than were adually embodied ; the present number was 70,000, and they Calculated on 80,000 Infantry, and 12 , 4 300 Cavalry, to which number it was ' , 1. , c f PRICE SIXPENCE. hoped the Volunteer system of that Country would be extended. From the nature of the duty, however, van which the Volunteers t,f Ireland had been, and were very likely Ire. quenity to be called, it wo difficult to estimate the expence, whilst si larger allowance must be made ro them than to those of Hagland.—A t the • same time the Officers received no pay, and Iht%xC Men only received pay who Were adually and. efficiently on duty. There was one suhjed relative. to which there were no Estimates belo t e the H ou6e , but which would be laid before Parliament early after the Recess;---he alluded to Foreign Corps, some of which had already been sandioned by Parliament, and with respect to others, inqasures were taking in various parts of Europe to raise them wherever men could be brought into the service of this Country. There euutd be liowevernoaccutate Estimates upon the subjed at present ; added to which, circuit. Stalle4B of some delicacy prevented the suljeet front being at present brought, forward.. "Iliere was also atiother. article •of expence which-:waS oar included its the resent, Estimaiesohat of-Barracks. Barrack* had hero cartied.to,,:an . extent greatly,soptrior tau any thing that .had been done in that way before, and it was impossible ar,present . to lay, before th'e 'HOuse an ultiinate estimate of the expence. Ttje whole effective force of the Kingdom, both Re. gulars and Militia, were however now covered with Barracks, and the estimate of the expence should be laldl betnre Parliament as early as possible. Upon this subject, ai upon every other connected with business before the Committee, lie would give. every Information in. his power that was required. He concluded by Moving, that a number .at Land Forces not exceeding 129%039 men, including Coin.. missioned and Non.cOminissioned Officers, he voted for the service of the year from the 25th December 1803 to 25111 December 1804. Mr. Wi NDHAitt said, his view of, this . stabjea was ; 80 different from that Of. the Hon. Secteutry, that his observations might not seem to arise out of - the Finn. Secretary's statements. His view of this 'subject went to the general defence of the Conniry both present and future, and on ibis Al ibi e d h e seiir ee;y knew where to begin. 1n.100ki.% at the danger which seemed to have absorbed every other considetation, and the mea,htes which had been adopted: to avert that danger, he could not lose sight of the Persons by whom Public Affaits were conducted. Of, their eondurt he. could not better express his opinion tliati in aortae poetic lines which were to bemet with on .tnany Windows, : and, which did - not prove :the gallantry: of that Poet to the Fair Sex. Alter speaking u,t the. faults of Men, it was said, XV 01 tlen.hve but two, :171)cre's nothili f i'tiOtt they s4y, jior nottlinr, goui In the present instance he would take the ;wpm: latien and energies of the Country, and. thelnoneke which Ministers had. had at their disposaleand then consider what they had done. He might 'take up the business from. the Treaty of Amiens, going through the confidence expressed by Ministers of permanent Peace being secured at a time when they knew that War could nut be avoided, and when afterwards their partizans without doors *tie ine struded to say that he who believed in the perste', nence.of Oat Peace, ifillit bC Nature's fool and not Mr. A DUI NGTON'S. He would, however, pass by, all that period, he would supppe that Miinster, felt that they were tiding perlealy right in giving up OW conquests, in parting with men whom Ale:) , had, got fur five guineas, and. for whom they must now, give fifty, whilst, many were, not. to be had again at all, 'and in selling off all our implements of War, some at half price, area others for the mere price of. the old iron which they contained—he wreald there. fore suppose all this was riglr. He would there. fore start from the Bth of March, and consider what they had done during a period of nine months. fire would take the general Population of the Country,, consisting of 15,000,000, and the Expenditure. In Beimties to the Army of Reserve, 1,000,000 h a d beeteeepended—,it was true it had not been raised by Parliament, but it had been drawn from the pockets of the People upon %%demi a Tax rhos been imposed by lot, By the Estimate of the Ex. peaces of the Volunteer Corps, it appelred that more than 700,0001. would be required, this would prove to he little 'short of a million, whil st it cot individuals a great deal more—it might he mated at a million inure. Here therefore was “bout 3,000,000 expended, in little more than the mere, creation of force. During this period, the Country only waited the signal which was long kept hack; whither Mrsiisters were. afraid of frightening the holders of Oatnium or not he did not know, but the. fan was, when they. called upon ,the Country it eame. They did not call spirits from the .vasty deep, without their coming ; they .Were then frightened at what presented ; they had no sooner began to dig 4 well, titan the water lose r , so fast ...upon them that they were afraid of being overwhelmed; they no sooner turned the cock, than the water spouted in their eyes.—The force we had consisting of ,neatly sce,oeo Men, wets a splendid force and worthy of the Country. , It was to be considered, however, how mueh of I,,th ani ptaister there was in this force in the fir,t place, there were 370,000 Volunteers, then they rnu / e take 70,000 Militia, 16,03 of the Army of Re.. serve had not been raised at all, and abnot 6,orea temained, unattached. Thus in all, it appeared that no more than Bodo had been added to. the Regul a r Force, though it would appear frost, the steterntlit S of the Hon. Sneetaty, that the number asnuut,rt. rl to 7,000. The second Battalions, of 0:d Regi. toms, composTti of the Army of Reserve, h e e l. lowed. might pa s s for Regular Soldiers, h ut t h e Battalions of Reserve were, he tlh fi t for any service, and the longer they re.