The Sun. — London, England, 1844-02-27 00:00:00

Colonel RAWDON, in seconding the motion, said that it was not without regret that he presented himself to the notice of the House. He presented himself for the purpose of entering his protest against the course which it appeared the Government was determined to adopt towards Ireland. The House would bear in mind that, during the course of the Irish discussion, he had had no op portunity of addressing the House. The number of English Members who had addressed the House on the subject had exceeded that of Irish Members. He thought the social and political condition of Ireland was such as to demand inquiry. Let the House remember what M. de Beaumont, a person uncon nected with any English or Irish political party, had said as to the state of Ireland. (The Hon. and Gal lant Officer here read an extract from M. de Beau mont's work, in which that gentleman stated that the condition of the North American Indian, as far as regarded physical comforts, was superior to that of the Irish peasant—that it was impossible to find in the world a race of men subject to greater physical privations than the Irish peasantry, that the greater portion of the population of Ireland was fed upon potatoes, and that whereas, in other countries, beggars formed the exception, in Ireland they formed the rule. Surely, when such was the state of the country inquiry into its condition was imperatively demanded. He knew it must weary the House to speak on the subject of Ireland after the long debate that had taken place on that subject, but the House must recollect that more English Members had spoken than Irish, and he hoped therefore the House would allow him to say a few words. During the whole discussion in Ireland the temperance movement had never once been alluded to.—(Hear, hear.) They had not had an intelligible answer yet from the Right Hon. Gentleman as to what course he intended to pursue with respect to Ireland. He had held out no hopes of redress for the wrongs of the people of Ireland. For the pre sent the door might be considered shut against the Irish people. The Irish Members must go back and tell their constituents that there were no hopes for the people of Ireland from that House. He had heard the other evening, with some indigna tion, an Hon. and Gallant Member express a wish that agitation should be put down in that House. He (Colonel Rawdon) said that that House was the place for agitation—the constitutional and the proper place. He still clung to the Act of Union, but when he heard such expressions as those he had alluded to, his feelings, he must say, began to waver. If there could be found one way more successful than another to increase agitation, it would be in attempting to suppress the discussion of Irish grievances in that House. He sincerely believed the time was come when Irishmen should make themselves more heard in that House. They must be more heard, for the Govern ment were not determined on what was necessary and right. He could assure the Right Honourable Baronet (Sir Robert Peel), that however concilia tory his expressions were, he could see nothing tangible in his intentions. The Right Hon. Baronet might stave off substantial measures for a time, but it would be only for a time. Until he consented to a great alteratipn-in the Church, and to a franchise equal to that of England, there could be no hope of permanent peace in Ireland. For these reasons he seconded the motion. Sir H. DOUGLAS, in reply to _what had fallen from the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman, said he could assure him that he had "not spoken hastily on the sub ject to which the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman had alluded, and certainly he had not spoken with any bad feeling to Ireland. What he had stated was, that he considered the motion of the Noble Lord opposite (Lord John Russell) to be a motion for party purposes, and not for the good of Ireland ; and he further stated that when that motion should be triumphantly negatived, he should be ready to give effect to his sincere disposition to do everything to favour Ireland, stopping short only at that point to go beyond which would Le ultimately injurious to both England and Ireland. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he had listened with great attention to the speeeh of his Honour able Friend, the Member for Rochdale, but he must confess that he did not think his Honourable Friend had made out any. case for the postponement of the present Committee of Supply. If his Hon. Friend had introduced into his motion a proposition that the estimates should be laid before the House, before any portion of them should be voted for the purpose of such estimates being referred to a Select Committee, he (Mr. Williams) would then have supported his Hon. Friend. His Hon. Friend, however, merely proposed a postponement of tke estimates until a ft er aster, without showing any distinct or clear ground why that course should be adopted. He (Mr. Williams) thought the House was fairly entitled, not only to have the army estimates, but the ordnance estimates also laid before them, in order that they might be well considered before they were voted. Ile thought too that the Chancel lor of the Exchequer ought to lay his financial budget before the Parliament before any public money was voted, in order that the House might see how the money was to be obtained. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had stated last year that there had been a balance of receipts over expenditure of 1,400,0001., but it appeared that there was not a single farthing saved ; for on the other side of the account it appeared that 1,300,0001. had been received from the sale of the Chinese dollars, and 1,600,0001. had been paid for the China opium which had been seized. It was admitted that the income-tax had brought in 5,500,000/., but the public never received any , account of the real amount of taxation in the financial statement. They were not aware that 4,500,000/. had been in tercepted by the various public officers in its way to the Treasury. The Commissioners of Customs had been denounced as unfit for the exer cise of the trust reposed in them. They inter cepted an amount of taxation to the amount of 1,200,0001. If there was a Select Committee pro perly constituted, not composed of Members of the existing Government, or of the late Government, but of independent Members of Parliament, attached to no party, he had no doubt it would prove, from the practice and experience of former years, that a large amount might be saved to the country. He would ask, what reason could there be for this enormous expenditure of the public money, when at the opening of the session her Majesty had informed the House that she had the strongest assurances of the most amicable disposition on the part of all foreign Powers, of uninterrupted peace ? What were the actual fa cts of the case ? Why, that in the navy es timates there was an increase of nearly two millions sterling over that of the year 183;. Now he should call on the Hon. Gentleman opposite to explein to this House why a sum of 25,0001. more was required for the expense of the marine force intended to serve on shore, than what it was in former years. He (Mr. Williams) thought this was a surreptitious mode of keeping up a standing army. What else, he would ask, could be their reason for keeping up an army of 129,677 men, a larger army than ever was known in this country since the occupation of France ? He should like to hear this explained, the more so when they considered that, independent of this large army, no less than 10,000 pensioners had been em bodied by a vote of that House last year, and also that they had 20,000 armed police. Did they sup port this large military establishment because they proposed to govern the country by military force; for if they did not in the present state of the foreign relations of this country, there could be no pretence for it. The. Right Hon. Baronet opposite had said he was obliged to support this enormous army on ac count of the state of Ireland, but he (Mr. Williams) contended that the necessity for doing this arose solely from the policy pursued by the Right. Hon. Gentleman towards the country. It was proposed to vote 34,000 men for the navy this year. He should like to know how was such a large force as this re quired now, when in 1822 the naval force comprised only 21,000 men, namely, 13,000 seamen, and 8,000 marines ? In the years, 1832, 1833, 1834, and 1835, only 27,000 men were voted for this service. There was another important question to which he wished to direct the attention of the House, and it was a matter upon which the Admiralty had never given any satisfactory information to the House, and that was the large amount . of the naval pension list, for the amount of these pensions was more this year than it was in the year 1818, after the war, when there were a great number of officers pensioned off, and when it was likely to have more upon the list than at any other period, owing to the nu merous casualties incident to the war. He should wish the Right Hon. Baronet to state why . there had been so great an increase in the pensions to naval officers. He complained of the manner in which the naval estimates had been made out. The army estimates were plain, but such was not the case with respect to the navy. Now, what was the amount of the pen sions given to the widows and children of naval officers ? In 1818 the whole amount of pensions given to those individuals was 18,8001.; in 1822 it was 112,0001., while this year it was 210,0004 Now, he should like to know why this vast increase had taken place. When they compared the amount received by the naval officers, and their widows and children, with the amount given to sailors, the man who fought their battles, what did they get? Why, out of the 1,100,0001., they , got about 207,0001. Was it to be supposed that these men would be satisfied, and not consider themselves ill-used ? He would next advert to the pensions in the civil de partment of the Admiralty. After the last reduc tion of the war establishment, the amount of pole sions in this department was 99,600/., and this year it came to no less a sum than 162,0001., nearly double what it was at the close of the war. He wanted to know what circumstances called for that extra expenditure. Then there were the dockyards, ..- THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, PEiIittTARY 27, 1844. for which 298,0001. were to be voted this year, and during the last five years there was no less a sum than than 1,123,000/ voted for the same. There was 210,000/. voted for the support of officers' widows and children, which allowed about Bs. or 9s. a-week for their support, and if they were not able to live on that they . must go to a workhouse. The amount of the pensions of the widows and children on the army list was considerably less than the navy, although the number of men in the army was so much greater. The reason was obvious ; the army accounts were published, the navy accounts were not. Before asking for any vote he trusted they should be made acquainted with the number of widows and children, and the grades of their parents. It was right that the House and the country should have the information. A Committee ought to inquire thoroughly into these matters. Were this done such an amount as that now upon the list would not be tolerated. Such a Committee as the Finance Committee of 1828, would look search ingly into these pensions, and he was satisfied, without doing injustice to any one, materially reduce the amount now charged upon it. Mr. FIELDING, who was scarcely audible in the gallery, was understood to say, that before supplies were granted they ought to ascertain whether the taxes now imposed were levied in a fair and proper manner. He protested against the income-tax, as being the most op pressive tax in its operation which had existed for centuries. The Government were bringing down the hatred and animosity of the poorer classes by their support of the infamous poor-laws ; and there was a similar feeling rising in the minds of the middle classes in consequence of the operation of the income-tax. He should cer tainly vote for the motion of his Hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale. Dr. BOWRING wished to state briefly the reasons inducing him to support the motion of his Hon. Friend. He did so because he thought it was one of those great constitutional principles which a Member of the House had a right to adopt, when he thought that the people wereunfairly represented, for it was essential that the people, when they were taxed, should have some person to represent their opinions in the House. The people of this country amounted to between twenty and thirty millions, and out of those, not one million were possessed of votes ; and, therefore, the great mass had a right to be dissatisfied when they saw such a want of control on their part, and of want of economy on that of the Government. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when the returns which he had moved for upon a former occasion, with respect to the Income-tax Commission, would be laid upon the table. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who was nearly inaudible in the gallery, was understood to say that two of the the returns to which the Hon. Gentleman had just alluded were already nearly completed, and the third would be prepared as soon as possible. Mr. ROCHE condemned the course which the Government pursued with respect to Ireland in en deavouring to govern there by military occupation, in stead of by justice and conciliation. Those grievances of which the Irish people complained should be done away with, and above all the incubus of the Established Church should be removed. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had not attempted to meet the difficulties in Ireland; they had not striven to grapple with the causes of the present excitement. He told the Right Hon. Gentleman that the Government had not military possession of Ireland, as had been re peatedly said in the course of the present debate. The troops had possession of the barracks, the war steamers of the harbours, but the inhabitants held possession of the country. The country was held by the deep feelings of loyalty whieh the Irish people entertained for their Sovereign. Although Hon. Members might consider that people ignorant, they understood the principle of a limited monarchy, and did not attribute to the Sovereign the delinquencies of her Ministry. They remembered well the kindly feelings expressed by her Majesty towards Ireland when she ascended the throne. He did not mean any disrespect to Hon. Gentlemen opposite, but he did not consider they were equal to encounter the present great and alarming crisis. Mr. GISBORNE said that if the Hon. Member who had brought forward the present motion had assigned any substantial reasons for the course, he would have supported him, but he did not see any practical reason for postponing the consideration of the estimates. Why should they not be postponed after, as well as before Easter ? No reason existed now for their postpone ment, that would not exist then. If he saw that any real good could be effected, or any grievance redressed, he would support the motion, but as it was of so indefi nite a nature, he must oppose it. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the motion Against it Majority against the motion —94 Sir C. NAPIER rose, on the motion for going into Com mittee of Supply on the navy estimates, to bring the constitution of the Board of Admiralty under the con sideration of the House, and said that it must be admitted by Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite that up to a very late period, the mode of ship-building was very defective, and even in this, the greatest maritime country in the world, ship-building was most inferior to other countries. One of the most clumsy, expensive, and inefficient pub lic undertakings ever executed was the dockyard at Sheerness. It cost four or five millions of money; and, though constructed at such enormous cost, it was in a most inefficient state of defence. The progress of steam at the time should have shown that it could have been built much more efficiently at a much smaller expense. He agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet in the pro priety of dissolving the different Boards of Admiralty be had done; but then the question was, whether what he had substituted in their stead was efficient or essential for the purpose. He doubted very much whether they were so, as they tended to place the officers newly appointed under the sole control of the Lords of the Admiralty, who were changed with every Administration. The way in which the Lords of the Admiralty conducted their affairs—he would not call it business, because that gave offence last year—(Laughter) —was most slovenly. They just went down to Somer set-house, and said, " Well, how do affairs go on?" The reply always was, " Very well."—(Laughter.) And then, after some little chat among themselves, they put on their hats and walked off.--(Laughter.) Then, with respect to the dock-yards, he thought that there was much to be complained of relative to them. He admitted the Admiralty, as it was now conducted, had acted with a little more propriety in distributing its patronage than under the former system, but still there were many persons employed who had never gone to sea. The Hon. and Gallant Commodore then referred to several returns which he had called for, showing the persons employed in the navy, and their previous occu pations. Having moved for these returns in 1842, he called for similar returns in 1843, from which it ap peared, that in that year 178 persons, who had never been in the navy, were promoted to lucrative situations in the dockyards. He gave great credit to the present Admiralty for the regulation which they had made that when a ship came into port, the com mander should be called upon to recommend his list of officers and artificers for the situations which he might consider them competent to fill in the civil departments, and he believed that if they followed up that principle, it would be attended with considerable benefit to the public service. He had moved for a return of all persons who had entered into the civil service in naval establishments, distinguishing whether they had been in the navy before, and, if not, what situations they tilled, and who had recommended them. He wanted to getss the information how many gentlemen's. servants had been plsed in each situations. But the Right Hon. Gentleman said that such a return would be invidious; but he would give a return, distinguishing. thecivilians from those who had served in the navy.—(A laugh,) Now, he had once II servant who wished him to procure a situation at the tiMe vacant—there was another situation vacant at the San* Ono, and a relative of his had a similar application, But they both refused, thinking it was unfair to the service; how ever, what was the result ? the places were filled up, but not from the navy.—(Hear, hear,) One was given to one who had lived servant in an hotel, and the other was given to some gentleman's servant ; but he would not mention names. Much had been said at the Ad miralty and elsewhere about the management of the last High Admiral, but, notwithstanding all that had been said, his Royal Highness had given great spirit to the navy—(Hear, hear)—and had introduced a system which promoted discipline and the efficiency of the ser vice. —(The Hon. and Gallant Officer then read several numerical statements relating to promotions in the sere vice, and appointments in the dock-yards, but so rapidly, and indistinctly, that it was impossible to collect his figures or their-application.) From the returns moved for in 1843, it appeared that 332 commanders were promoted to the rank of post-captain ; 535 lieutenants were made com manders; and 945 midshipmen were made lieutenants, —(Hear, hear.) This was referred to as a proof that there had been a great promotion, but what were the facts-234 commanders, 259 lieutenants, and 928 mid shipmen had died since the late promotion,—(Hear.) That, he thought, was enough to show that the principle of promoting one and one-third had, not been carried out at ii e mrm wasps impossible ell to of opinion that unless they came tivooaauilL H r d eg b u e tt of lo a ok retiringfor proper list economyfor th inro the navy P i, motions. He thought that the present Government was responsible for not bringing the navy into a state of efficiency, by expending a small sum of money to in duce men to retire from the service. Having attained that point he should say that no man should be promoted until a vacancy occurred, and then he should give one third to seniority, and one-third .to wbat'was called the " Admiralty appointments." In the evidence taken before the Shipwreck Committee it was clearly shown how just and expedient it was topromote to such situations as landing waiters in the Customs, and very good situations in the Dock-yards- - ---(A laugh).— those men in the coast guard service, who had distin guished themselves, by their exertions in saving life. The Hon. and Gallant Officer then read extracts from the evidence, to show that such was the opinion of the naval officers examined before the Committee, He would next refer to the regulations respecting masters in the navy. The rate of remuneration to those officers was regulated in the most extraordinary manner ima ginable. A master of a three-decker received 212/. per annum as his salary, which was never increased unless he was promoted to a situation in the Pngklard ; whereas the master of a small b r i g , o r an y other small craft., was paid a yearly salary of 2191., thus receiving / 4 more than the officer of the larger vessel, on the ground of there being tie W11147411t qffieer to attend to the stores in the small craft, while it seetne4 tp.be left out of con sideration altogether, that the master a th e #rst- T ate ship had to attend, not certainly to what was known a - 4 the stores, but the yards, rigging, spars, Scs., a ll of which were Edged in his charge, and this, too, when it was well-known that if the master of a three-decker did his duty, he must be generally up, all night pa deck, whenever there was a ga le or the vessel was' iii after shore, and, in fact, whenever and wherever (and such occasions were very frequent) the least duty connected with his important office was required. So important were the duties of the master that he (Sir C. Napier) would not enter upon the command of any ship unless he had a master upon whose skill and knowledge he could rely with the greatest confidence ; yet so badly were things managed that this important officer in a first-rate vessel was actually paid less than a similar officer in a small craft. He hoped the Board of Admiralty would re-consider the position of those officers. He next came to his own proposition. He repeated, he approved of what the Right Hon. Baronet had done, and he only wished to make the Right Hon. Gentleman's plan a little more perfect, which could be effected with very little trouble. He would now read to the House what was his own opinion in the year 1828, previous to the Right Hon. Baronet's being in the Admiralty, respecting the constitution of the Board of Admiralty. Those opinions were addressed to a Member of Parliament, who in the year 1830 became First Lord of that Board. (The Honourable and Gallant Member then read the following extracts:— " As it is generally supposed the office of Lord High Admiral is too high a situation for an individual, re course must be had to a Board, which, though an irres • ponsible body, may be constituted much better than it now is. If a civilian must sit at its head he should be First Lord ; if an Admiral, Commander-in-Chief of the Fleet ; he should be assisted by the Vice and Rear- Admirals of Great Britain, which situations should be abolished as sinecures, and conferred on the two senior naval Lords, thereby causing a saving of 900/ a-year. Their duties should be the same as they now are ; an Admiral as superintendent of the Dockyards, another admiral to superin tend the victualling and medical departments ; a cap tain of the fleet to assist the First Lord of the Admi ralty in his inspections, and be the man to whom officers should address themselves, instead of to his pri vate secretary, and he should be accessible at all times. The Treasurer of the Navy, who should be a good financier and speaker, and who should bring the esti mates before the House • the two lay Lords should be abolished, and if they really have any duty to perform, let our naval officers do it. Attached to this Board (be side what there now is) should be a surveyor of the navy, storekeeper-general, accountant-general, superin tendent of transports, physician of the fleet, purser of the fleet, and adjutant-general of the marines. All cor respondence should be carried on with the members of the Board charged with the department you had busi ness with, and, if dissatisfied with his decision, a letter, addressed to the Secretary of the Admiralty, should be submitted to them on board-days, and each individual member should also bring forward such subject as he did not think himself competent to decide on. When the First Lord of the Admiralty had not time or in clination to make his inspections at the different naval stations, the vice or rear-admirals should be dis • patched, they should hoist their flags, and, for the time being, be superior to all admirals; the chiefs of the other departments, in like manner, should be paramount in the dock-yards, victualling departments, and hospitals, but should have nothing to do with the fleet. The First Lord, accompanied by the captain of the fleet, to in struct him in the particular parts which he did not understand, should be commander-in-chief in all the departments.") The Honourable and Gallant Member then went on to say that he wanted to see the naval Board conducted in the same way as the Board of Ord nance was. It was quite impossible that the Accountant- General could attend to all the things imposed upon him—such as the description of the fleet, courts-mar tial, the management of the various stations throughout the world, &c. It was thereupon necessary that some remedy should be adopted for the present state of things. In respect to the building of ships he admitted there was a great deal of talent displayed. He gave to Captain Symonds great credit for what he had done, but Captain Symonds, like every other man, had his crochets, and re quired the superintending eye. There was no doubt he had built some of the finest ships in the world, and the Admiralty in employing him had done quite right. They were right to secure six or seven builders, in order to have the best work in the end that the country could se cure. But he must tell the Admiralty plainly that in their building they were not so clever as they thought themselves. The French had a far better class of steam vessels than England, and the Navy Board ought to be ashamed of such a fact. Even the Royal steam yacht, the Albert and Victoria, was a failure in its construction, and could not sail steadily and properly until 100 tons of ballast had been placed in her. Take the Albion. She was to be the largest in the British navy, and it was boasted she should be superior to the Rodney. Experience had proved that she was not to be compared to the Rodney. He had now finished the observations he had to address to the House, and he apologised for detaining it so long.—(Hear, hear.) It was not his habit to trespass on th House, and he had occupied its attention much longer than usual. But he hoped what he had said would be received indulgently by the House, and, command the consideration of the Board of Admiralty.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. WILLIAMS said a few words, which were in audible in the gallery. Mr. SYDNEY HERBERT said the Hon. and Gallant Officer had at considerable length criticised the manage ment of the Board of Admiralty, with respect to the construction of different classes of ships and other mat ters; but he should recollect that these defects existed in former Boards of Admiralty. Sir C. NAPIER said he had admitted that to be the case. Mr. SYDNEY HERBERT—He did not wish to mis represent any thing that had fallen from the Hon. and Gallant Member, but those defects ought not to be charged entirely on the present Board of Admiralty. With respeet to the statements made by the Gallant Officer, the first related to the patronage of the civil department of the Admiralty. As a general principle, it would be intelligible to say that where naval men were necessary, naval men should be employed in the civil department, and were civil men were necessary they should employ civilians. But they had gone much farther than this; they had made 612 additional appoint ments of that kind to the civil departments of the dock yards. He was not opposed to the principle where it was practicable, that naval men should be employed in the civil services. He had himself introduced it into Somerset-house. But he was not blind to the fact that some inconvenience had arisen from it. If a naval man was taken as a clerk, he was still looking out for a ship, and when they went to sea there was a continual interruption, so that they were constantly teaching men what, as soon as it was learned, the service could derive no advantage from. He defended the special promotions for particular services as absolutely necessary, as rewards for the dangers not only of war, but of such pestilential climates as the coast of Africa. With respect to the Coast Guard, all names for promotion in that service were sent up to the Admiralty by the Comptroller, and his selection was always adhered to ; there was no in stance of the Admiralty having chosen any others than those so selected. There was, besides, an objection to the principle of giving promotion in the navy for services that were not naval. With regard to the masters in the navy, he should not dwell on the particulars of their keeping the stores in small vessels, but he might state that no class of officers occupied more of the attention of the Admiralty than the masters. They had been promoted to the rank of commissioned officers ; one had been promoted to the rank of Com mander, and two had been made Lieutenants. —(Sir C. Napier—" Out of 450 1") With regard to the construction of vessels, no one had a higher admira tion of Captain Symonds than he had ; but the Board of Admiralty did not consider any man to be infallible. In addition to the ships constructed by him, the Board had allowed other builders to compete witk him, and they had at that moment no less than nineteen experi- mental vessels building, on lines laid down by different persons ; that competition induced the greatest anxiety in all of them to give the greatest attention to the science. With respect to the alterations that had been made in the ships with round sterns, and the altera tions in the bows and magazines, he contended they were necessary, They must recollect that as time advanced sc i enc e e.deanced also, and if the Board of Admiralty confined itself to the present plans of construction only, they would be behind other nations. Those changes and experiments could not be made without expense, but that expense was no more than necessary. He believed the Hon. and Gallant Officer's own plan of placing the magazine on board vessels had been reported on, and stated to be very dangerous. With regard to the steamer, Penelope, though many accusations had been made against her, yet on reading the reports from'the officers on board of her, he found her per formance highly spoken of. She was stated to have beaten every war steamer she had met. With respect to the Albion, he read a letter from Commodore Bowles to Captain Symonds, expressive of admiration at her con struction, and stating her to bo the finest three-decker in the world • he also read another letter from Mr. Northcote, the master, who stated that he rejoiced at the opportunity of refuting the diabolical assertions with respect to their noble ship.—(Laughter.) The report of the particulars of her depth of water when loaded, &c. contradicted those of the Hon. and Gallant Officer. He did not quite see what the objections of the Hon. and Oallant Member to the present system were ; he did not see what advantage his plan would have over the present system. The Gallant Officer said, that the Board was changed at every change of. Ministry, and those who came in were obliged to depend on the Information of the inferior officers, The same objection applied to every department ; it applied to the offices of the Secretaries of State. If it was an evil, it was the neces sary result of their representative system, which created frequent charges of parties ; but it did not apply to the Board of Admiralty more than to any other department. It was a mistake to sup pose that the members of the Board of Admiralty con 'mod themselves entirely to Whitehall; there was also a regular n a aT o n r 4 g az ic eof the officers at Somerset House. Before tthoeprreofovreer absolute e n itn e g s e si t y a fo s ni r ati 4 e jit w w a a s s necessary b ; htmdhhei He discharge might Rightr drna r e do s ?d e wn u t bowee o t Herffiu d e p odne u r noe il v e the quite sei4istttlseywatreehiy: were incase ill e n e o ffi w t P t o l o e u o il l e d nu n e e o li t tli fo s e a r y p t r h e a e s n ell ß a t o d l r d r i d a ti r o t d n o t h t e o the o dischargew alterationsa r ; i b n u to t rfo dai its us cdedu t presentduties. Baronet (then the M b required ; they had stood the test of ten fa years, and had been found to work well P , m and r he for di C d ul n:t think the alterations proposed by the Hon. and Gallant Officer were then required. 404 1 4 pgp#4l. said, the argument that no or ganic change Ought to 1)P InaclP till the 444 astem was proved not to have worked well, waypott Ili , H onour able Baronet opposite, and the cha r ii Officer next him, when the sweeping measure liciform was proposed, which they both r es i s t e d. The tratlailt , Q*4 - 94 k - Pt complained of the con struction of the Boar of mir 4 4. 1 44 Pf %fiffiP pursued by them. He always looked 'on these" Mauers without any reference to party. The Board of Ordnance bas arranged in a different manner, and it worked far utter awl the 844407 Bog* There waft po re- sponsibility in that Board. On one occasion, Captain Berkeley proposed an improvement with regard to the complements of ships ; and, though he considered he had a majority of the Board with him, he afterwards found that his proposal was upset in the private room. He in consequence left the Board. He gave the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, the' Secretary: of State for the Home Department, full credit for the im provements which he made when at the head of the Admiralty Board ; but he could not give the present Board much credit for the mode in which they con ducted the navigation of the country. It was a disgrace to the country, that while France and America had the Archimedian screw in full operation, the navy of this country had not a single vessel to which this great im provement was applied. He recollected, that in March last, he complained of the manner in which the Board of Admiralty had acted towards Mr. Smith, who inven ted that invaluable improvement. He was then told that the Rattler was being completed, and that this improvement would be applied to her ; but at this very moment, though twelve months had elapsed, there was no Rattler in commission. He was aware she was cruising up and down the river for the purpose of mak ing experiments, but it was not Mr. Smith's screw which was applied. Other machinery had been applied, but it was always found that the speed of the vessel had diminished. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman then referred to the contemplated employment of the Pene lope and Prometheus vessels on the coast of Africa, for the suppression of the slave trade, and said that they would be of far more service at home. He complained of the navy being employed to collect the poor rates in Ireland.—(Cries of " Hear.") He recollected that complaints were made with regard to the employ ment of naval officers on the coast guard service. It was not now looked upon as an invidious service ; but he certainly was of opinion that it was a disgrace to the navy to be employed m collecting poor-rates on the coast of Ireland, and to bring an 84-pounder to bear on some farm-house in Connaught. It was something equal to what had been done at Tahiti. He complained of the ignorance in which they were left with regard to the experiment made upon the Fox frigate. From the bow of that vessel 15 feet had been cut off, and 20 feet of new material had been added. She had been sent to the Shannon ; and though the whole naval world were most curious to know the result, they were left in entire ignorance on the subject. With reference to the subject of shipwrecks, it appeared from the Report of the Shipwrecks' Committee, that officers frequently risked their lives without receiving any pension as a reward; and even where officers lost their lives no pension was bestowed. He thought that some alteration ought to be made. Great complaints had been made on the other side of the appointments of Lord Minto as being of a political character. He thought there was no foundation for that charge. Admiral Stopford would not have been appointed to the Medi terranean if the First Lord of the Admiralty had been actuated by political considerations. He would reserve any further remarks which he might be desirous of making until after the Secretary for the Admiralty had made his statement. Dr. BOWRING regretted that some uniform mode of preparing these estimates was not adopted by the Admiralty. The great error was, that the department of expenditure was always made the department of receipt. In the estimates of this year, there was 171,4791. received by the naval department, and de ducted from the expenditure. He thought it was ex tremely important that the gross revenues should come into the hands of the Government, and that a different mode of preparing the accounts should be adopted. The accounts could never be satisfactory till the princi ple was established that whatever was realised from and for the public service should be paid into the Exchequer, and that no department should realise for itself. All ought to be paid into the Queen's Exchequer. Ile hoped that, little by little, they should reach the ultima Thule of his desires in these matters ; but, until they did so, he should not cease to protest against the esti mates in the form and extent which they now assumed. Captain PLUMRIDGE had only one suggestion at that moment to offer to the House. Considering the high and responsible duties attached to the master of a vessel in her Majesty's service, he thought it but fair that that meritorious class of officers should be entitled to gain the rank of captain.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. S. HERBERT (who spoke so hurriedly and so indistinctly, that it was with the greatest difficulty a whole sentence could be heard in the gallery) was understood to say, that after the miscellaneous conver sation, which always took place before the question was entered into, a good deal of matter was cleared away, and he would show his anxiety to save trouble to the House by postponing any vote on which there might be any strong difference of opinion. Upon the Admiralty vote, there were two alterations which were not very material. There was an item for the manufacture of an instrument to make lunar observations. He was not very well ac quainted with scientific pursuits, but this instrument had received the approbation of Sir W. Herschell and other eminent astronomers. With respect to the ordnance survey seventeen surveys were in progress. It was the inten tion of the Government to re-establish Deptford as a construction cimader that a t sh e e by yeare pi purpose to ts of hr e fe, ha d 02 ,A R33 .0 8e 9i beenk4 Right Hon.the numberarie in the building yard. He mentioned last year that a large steamer had been building there. It was now completed, and two or three others were in progress of completion. There was an increase of two hundred shipwrights in this yard, and of an inspector, necessary for supervision. At Woolwick dockyard there was an increase of two in spectors and fifty shipwrights, There had been also an additional item of expenditure for this dockyard, viz., lighting with gas instead of oil. A school for naval ap prentices had likewise been established, and he could speak from personal knowledge of its efficiency. There was likewise an item for the manufacture of steam engines, and salaries to additional inspectors for superintending their manufacture. At Chatham thef an extra Ply mouth there was no alteration of any importance. At nextcon sequence (as well as we could understand tha Hon. Gentleman) refer to the item which showed the expenses incurred 3g46Bwconsequenceo Baronet o f t tons th e f copper by the copper-sheathing of the several vessels of war in yoo t h fe e a ar d i o clBk4yo alterationaai r tp d pi a , edadni increased to n e expense of State for the Home Department in the disposal of convicts , a considerable difference would be r was tons. tincurredH 3 Ine sithou d n made in the amount of the regular paid labour which would be required for the operations to be carried on in the several dockyards; but he (Mr. S. Herbert) had no doubt but any extra expense thus incurred would be more than compensated for by the superior manner in which the work would be done. He had now gone through all the separate items, with the exception of the smaller and more insignificant, and all that remained for him to say now was, that a large sum had been ex pended in the improvement of the docks ; and besides, they were gradually getting rid of the more expensive portion of the machinery in those different stations. Although it was not possible, at the present moment, to make any diminution in the numerical strength of the navy, yet the House might depend upon it that the strictest regard had been paid to economy, consistent with the interests of the empire. The number re quired in the present estimates would be 30,000 men, with 10,500 marines, and 2,000 boys. Mr. WILLIAMS wished to know what were the cir cumstances of the country, which could justify the vote of a sum for the naval service this year which exceeded that of the year 1835 by nearly two millions of money. He felt strongly bound to object to the vote for any item for the support of the marines who were required to do duty on shore, for he considered them as part and parcel of a standing army, and bound to act in common with the soldiers. What he wanted to know from the Hon. Gentleman opposite, the Secretary of the Admiralty, was, what were the necessities of the country now above those of 1837, which required an increase of 25,000 men? Sir G. COCKBURN said the Government were anxious to have a certain number of marines in the case of our going to war suddenly. Marines were useful, too, on shore in dock-yards, &c., and in the event of a war suddenly occurring, when it would be necessary at once to man ships fully, they' would suit the service much better than soldiers, who would become sea-sick. Besides, it was necessary that we should compete with other nations, which were extending their marine ; and as two-thirds of our seamen were generally on foreign service, unless we could get the entire command of the Channel at the commencement of a war, those seamen would go into French prisons instead of into our. ships. To prevent such a misfortune, an increase in the marine force would be requisite. Sir C. NAPIER quite agreed with what had fallen from the Eon. and Gallant Admiral. He wished to make a suggestion respecting the manning of our ships. He thought the guard-ships ought to be fully manned with men fit for active service instead of de crepid men, who, when they returned from sea, were generally obliged to be sent to hospital. If the guard ships were fully manned, the men could be drafted from them into the vessels for service, and then those vessels would not be detained five or six, and sometimes even nine months, in port, waiting for their full complement of men. The Hon. and Gallant Member then adverted to the manner in which the magazines in ships were fitted up, which he condemned very much, and stated his opinion, that unless our naval officers were better trained, we must suffer much from the enemy in time of war. Admiral DUNDAS had no such apprehensions as the Gallant Officer who spoke last. If we had two hundred steamers with thirty-two pounders, we might defy the navy of the world. After some observations from Sir G. COCKBURN and Sir C. NAPIER, Dr. BOWRING said the objection of the Hon. Member for Coventry had not been noticed, namely, that an increase in the marine force was, in fact, an in crease in the standing army. Captain PECHELL hoped that an explanation would be given to induce his Hon. Friend to withdraw his mo tion. Tint if a satisfactory explanation was not given, he would move au amendment, He hoped, however, it would not be necessary to press the motion. Before he sat down ho wished to ask if it were true that the crows of her Majesty's ships had been employed in levying poor-rates in Ireland ?—(Hear, hear.) He thought that a great' improvement might be effected by employing steam-vessels instead of frigates to carry out Governors to such places as Gibraltar, Ho was sure that suoh employment of frigates gave very great dissatisfaction to the officers, and served to change her Majesty's s hips into floating ta verns, and caused the dismissal of the Commander of t il t l Wfffillite:l l 4flr, IMP') Tig rnt Pmtnin Pig, PP PI di@ €104Y4 s P,.P mentary patrOnag..e, and the only questions asked of a candidate were—Who recommended you ? and, Whom did you vote for at the last election ?—(Hear, and a 191 1 9 He hoped the whole system would be changed, a *r A4*jr.ffi a l lp,Fooppciefit oroi hYP power o appointing fit peraons, sOeding ipeT the naval service. —(Hear.) Ile oso #100.4 Ole 1 -I R. 4n4 04444 t (Am aeorge G 00441411) W 91 4 14 ii4414C9 the Admiralty to take into their consideration the situation of the masters in the navy. Admiral DUNDAS concurred most heartily in the wish which had been expressed upon this subject. The vote was then agreed to, and the House resumed. HORSE-RACING PENALTIES BILL. Mr. WORTLEY moved the second reading of this Bill, and proposed certain verbal amendments on it. Mr. C. BERKELEY would not oppose the motion if the addition he had to propose were acceded to. Mr. WORTLEY was not prepared to accede to the addition. Mr. BROTHERTON moved an adjournment ; but from a few words that passed, believing the subject would soon be brought to a termination, the Hon. Gentleman declined to persist in the motion. After a short pause, and cries of " Adjourn," and " Go on," Mr. HAWES said he wished the House would either idjourn or go on. Mr. C. BERKELEY said, as it seemed the wish of the House that he should go on, he would shortly state the nature of his clause. The object he had in view, was to extend the operation of the present Bill to the second clause of the 4th and 6th of William IV., and to the 47th of the 2d and 3d of Vic toria ; so that no information should be laid under those clauses until within three months after the passing of the present Bill. They should then have the Report of the . Committee sitting up stairs on gaming, and they would be able to determine whether certain sports and games to which those clauses related continued to exist or not. There was nothing so objectionable as legis lation, which it was impossible to enforce, and they could not enforce the clauses of this Act of Parliament. If they did attempt to enforce them, they would not be doing justiee by thus legislating for one class only, and therefore he would move the insertion of the following clause:—" And whereas, by the third clause of an Act passed in the sth and fith year of the reign of his late Ma jesty William the Fourth, intituled, An Act to consoli date and amend the several laws relating to the cruel and improper treatment of animals, and the mischiefs arising from the driving of cattle, and to make other provisions in regard thereto,' and also by the 47th clause of a certain other Act, passed in the second and third years of the reign of her Majesty Queen Victoria, intituled, An Act for further improving the police in and near the metropolis,' certain penalties are recover able by summary process against parties engaging in certain popular sports and games therein mentioned : be it enacted, that it shall not be lawful for the space of three calendar months from the passing of this Act, to lay any information for the recovery of penalties under the said recited clauses of the said Acts." Dr. BOWRING seconded the motion. They had by their legislation encouraged informers, by trusting to them the enforcing of certain laws, and now because those men turned round upon the rich and powerful there was this outcry raised Against them. He disap proved of the measure itself, and of the clause that was proposed to be added ; but, from a wish to do equal jus tice to the humbler classes of society; he felt bound to support it. The clause was then brought up and read a first time. On the motion that it be read a second time, Mr. WORTLEY said he thought that the Honourable Member had not informed the House, nor the Hon. Member next him (Dr. Bowring), to what sports the clauses of the Acts he alluded to referred. He would find that they were directed, not against the sports of the poor only. but to sports which had received the highest aristocratical protEction—such as cock-fighting, and other sports of the like description, which he need not name. Ills objection to the clause was, that it had nothing to do with the Bill. The Bill merely suspended, for a limited time, certain actions brought to re cover penalties of so large an amount—an amount totally disproportionate to any offence the parties might have committed. Now, the penalties to which the Hon. Gentleman's clause referred were against sports of a cruel and inhuman character. He might propose an alteration in the general law, but this Bill had nothing to do with that. If those gentlemen had not been of aristocratical ranks and connections they should not have had so much opposition to the Bill. Captain PECHELL denied that there was any ana elnBd3isn,gtoa c r t ec i o o n v s e b r brought i e a s g a i i n n e s u t r r n e e d w s b p y a the between th e p resent Bil l and the motion he had proprietors u in pe e r violation of one of the regulations of the Stamp-office. Mr. C. BERKELEY would not trouble the House, as he saw, from the number of gentlemen opposite who were adverse to his motion, that it would be perfectly useless. After a few words from Mr. PETER BORTHWICK the Report of the Bill was brought up and agreed to, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow (this day). The House then adjourned at a Quarter to One o'clock. STATE OF IRELAND. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-Fzi. 23. LORD J. RUSSELL'S MOTION. ABSENT LIBERALS-19. Ainsworth. P.—Bolton Johnstone, A.—Renfrew, &e. Bridgeman, Hewitt—Ennis Lambton, H.—North Durham Callaghan, D.—Cork City Langton Col Gore—Somerset Cayley K Yorkshire Martin, Thomas—Galway Co. Clive,, Edward B.—Hereford O'Brien, W. S.—Limerick Co. Cobden, R.—Stockport Ricardo, L.—Stoke-upon:Trent Drat. J. S. W. E.—Warehm Somerville. Sir Wm.—Drogheda Greenaway, Charles—Leominster Talbot, C. R. M.—Glamorganshire Heathcote. G. J.—Rutiandshire Tue b i tH. M.--West meath Johnson, W. Augustus—Oldham ABSENT CONSERVATIVES-12. Attwood, J.—Harwich Mackinnon, W. A.—Lytnlngton Benett, J.—South Wiltshire Neeld, John—Cricklade Carnegie, Hon. Captain—Staitbrd Rolleston, Col.—S. Nottingham Eastnor, Viscount—Reigate Sheppard, Thomas—Frome Forman, T. S.—Bridgewater Somerton, Viscount—Wilton Hamilton, Chas. J. B.—Aylesbury Vyvyan, Sir 11.—Helame PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS. The Parliamentary Paper (No. 40, Session 1844), or dered by the House of Commons to be printed, on the 16th instant, was entitled an " Account of all Supplies remaining in the Mint, of Advances for Purchase of Bullion for Coinage, Seignorage arising therefrom, and Repayments into the Exchequer on Account of Ad vances." has been prepared under nine heads. From Table No. 1, it appears that the supplies remaining in the Mint on the 31st of December, 1843, amounted to 81,8911 13s. Bd. (of this aggregate 1,804/. 10s. 2d. was " Balance remaining on the Exchequer at the Bank of England, and 27,275/. 16s. 11d. balance, or cash ac count, also at the Bank." The silver bullion, uncoined, at 665. per lb. troy, was 26,251/. 4s. 3d. The silver coin in the stronghold, 19,837/. 18s. 2d. The copper, uncoined bullion, at 2241. per ton, was 3,322/. Is. 7d. Coper coin in stronghold 9351.25. 3d. Cash remaining in the latter, silver and copper, 2,4451.) No. 2 shows the total of the sums issued out of the Consolidated Fund for the purchase of silver and copper bullion, under the authority of the Lords Commissioners of her Majesty's Treasury (including balance on Exchequer credit at the Bank, on 31st of December, 1842, 1,8041 10s. 2d.), at 351,804/. 10s. 2d. In No. 3, headed " Purchase of Silver Bullion and Dollars, and the Seignorage of the Coinage," it appears that the prices paid for silver between January 1 and December 31, 1843, ranged in the following proportions ; namely, for dollars, from 575. Old. to 595. Old. per ounce; for worn shillings and sixpences, their nominal value ; for s il ver in bars, from 595. Oid. to 595. Old. per ounce; colonial seals (to the amount of 5841 ss. 10d., whereof the Mint value was 650/. 17s. lid.) at 595. Old. Total of purchase value for the year, 339,106/. 14s. Bd.—Mint valu% 356,273/ 6s. sd. Loss on the purchase of ;Torn coin for recoinage, 9,483/. 2s. 7d. ; seignorage (or dif ference between market and Mint vaue), 26,649/. 14s. 4id. No. '4 shows the " Nominal Value" of "Old Worn Silver Coin" (i. e., shillings and sixpences) " received from the Bank of England, purchased for recoinage, from 31st of December, 1843, to• 31st of December, 1843," to have been 107,000/, whereof the Mint value, at 665. per lb. troy, was only 97,5161 17s. qd., showing total of loss on said purchase, as 9,4831. 2s. 7d. No. 5 (for the year. January 1 to December 16, 1843, inclu sive) gives the total "Purchase Value of Copper Bul lion" at 12,160/ Os. 7d.; of which the Mint value, at 224/. per ton, was 34,124/. ss. 10d., leaving to the Crown a seignorage of no less than 21,9641. 58. 3d. From No. 6 it appears that the " Total of Coined Silver Moneys delivered into' the Mint-office in all 1843," amounted to 276,606/ and of Coined copper, ditto, to 10,985/ Is. 10d. No. 7. The " Cash Account of Payments for Silver and Copper Coin," during same period, shows an aggregate of 293,913/. ss. 2d. Under Ne. 8, " A Return of Payments made into the Exchequer out of Cash received for Silver and Copper Moneys," we find that the repayments in the like term, on account of advances out of the Consoli dated Fund for purchase of bullion, amounted to 265,000/. ; and the "Payments on account of Seignorage or the purchase of Bullion," and excess of " Tale on the Coinage from Ist October, 1842, to 30th of Sept em b er 1843,' were in all 16,121/. 18s. 1 Id.—Total, 281,12 1 / Bs. 11d. No. 9 is the General Debtor and Creditor Statement of " The Master of the Mint in account with her Majesty's Exchequer," for the year 1843. Debiting the assets (shown in No. 1), 81,8911 ; the advances from the Exchequer (set out in No. 2), 350,000/, the seignorage accruing on coinage of silver and copper (given in No. 3), 48,6131, and the fractional excess by tale for the whole year of 4s. 6d.—this side of the ac count gives a total of 480,505/. 17s. 7d. On the credit side, after the payments into Exchequer on account of c i a r a j b e d v i a t e i n t d c f e o i snr and less N o .4 o n silverpa ymentsma k for coin,g together calledi Seignorage n29f 00 ( ,ar6sco recoinage u o s B , )6, (ex d . the " Assets remaining on 30th December, 1849," are brought in ; and thege (including 11,5001 due:from Com missariat, and. Exchequer credit balance 5371. 135.) amount, for slyer and copper bullion, coined and un coined,.collectively, to 149,8331 12s. 11d. Cash hiIIATIOO to creditor of Master of the Mint on the Bank of Eng land, 40,0671 13s. 2d., exhibiting a total corresponding aggregate of 480,505/. 17s. 7d. GREEK LOAN.—The I l iarliamentary Paper (No. 39, Session 1844), presented o the 16th inch,ttnd of nee Tinted and delivered out, entitled, ‘i An Account paid out of the Consolidated Fund, under Acts 2 and 3 Will. IV., c. 121, and 6 and 7 Will. IV., c. 94, in the year ended Dec. 31, 1843," shows such payill goo ß: t f h : i I terest and Sinking Fund (on that portion of the Greek s li x oa m n on wi th lie s h , br ue hae on n t g h U e ar l a S n t te o Od f py ma t r t h is , c l o B u 4 n 3 t , ry t ) o , fla b : de ficiency3s3l o s f l ih s e u rnte t r o es b t e a a n p, S ied ink t i o ng in F ak u i n7 on that por tion so guaranteed, for six months, due on the Ist of September, 1843, 10,2601 128. id, I igother, 89,5851. 17s. 141 Sul GEORGE MIIRRAY.—We are happy to state that this distinguished officer, who has been suffering under rather severe indisposition during the last few days, is suffi ciently recovered to enable him to resume his official dutieß gt the Dowd Qf OrdniiiNo t Tio lo rt {lncl SiT Tikornps Fremantle bud an inYPIONT GWlCeilor 0 the Exchequer yesterday, t.tl Tt)sidelice et the Right Linn. Gentleman in ROBung,street, SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS FROM THE EVENING PAPERS OF YESTERDAY. GLOBE.--Sir Robert Peel has just made another stand, and it is a stand by which he will one day fall, for he stands now upon the Iris} Church. Of the sin cerity with which he does so we make no doubt, nor have we any fault to find with his motives. It is quite true, as he says himself, though in rather more words, that he cannot afford to change again. He has already, by one con • cession, lost Oxford, his early pride—he will not forfeit Tamworth, his remaining boast : and as Tam worth is to Oxford, so will be the character for con sistency which he may still hope to gain, to that which he once posssessed. After all, as a matter of personal feeling, he is right to make the most of his oppor tunities, such as they are ; and hence it is that he will stick to the last to his Irish Church, that " dear ruin" which ho has helped to make, and as he tells us also at the same time, to his English Chancellor —another striking proof of the desperate fidelity with which he will henceforward adhere both to his mea sures and his men. his constancy, too, in the last instance, is brought out in bold relief by contrast with the very opposite conduct of the Whigs towards one of their Chancellors—poor Lord Plunket. We would not willingly speak hardly of him, but the un f. praise of Sir R. Peel compels us to say, that with all his talent, even before his incapacity became so notorious, he was the worst Chancellor that either Ireland or England had seen since the days of Lord Erskine. We speak not as partisans, or we would not have cited the latter name. Lord Plunket, however, had, in an eminent degree, that merit which Sir Robert Peel appreciates the most in a judge ; and if he read the debate of Friday night, how much he must have regretted that he was not born either a Tory or a Scotchman ? Even as it is, we wonder that Sir R. Peel did not, in his own peculiar way, show his sense of merit in an opponent by offering to make him either a Master in Chancery or a pro-Vice-Chan cellor, as he did offer to that really eminent judge, and most judicious, though unobtrusive, politician, Lord Cottenham—who had, we thought, done his duty in his own sphere, both too modestly and too well to have been singled out, as he was by a political adversary, as an object of that which we will make bold to call the most un paralleled instance on record of official im pertinence. But to return to the Irish Church, which, like the late Irish Chancellor, will take no hints, and will not retire even upon a pension, except upon compulsion : it seems certainly to be a little less near to its end than we had thought it to be before the late debate; for it is now proclaimed, in the hearing of all men, that Sir Robert Peel will not give it up, that Sir James Graham will not betray it, and more than this, that. Lord John Russell will not attack it in right earnest. As the leader of a party which may perhaps not very long be in opposition, Lord John Russell may be right in forbearing to connect himself to measures which, as the head of a new Government, he might not be able to carry out ; but we who are not re strained by any such considerations, and who claim the right of saying what we think, both in season and out of season, do not hesitate to say that the time is come, and is not gone by, as some people sup pose, for giving up the... Protestant Establishment in Ireland, that is—for taking from it at once, with the reserve only of existing life interests, so much of its property as exceeds the proportion which the number of its members bears to the po pulation of Ireland. This, or something like this, will be, at some time or other, the inevitable end. This has been, at all times since the in vasion of the Irish Protestant Church, the only just course ; and never, we think, have the rea sons for doing it once been so urgent and impe rious as they are now. We do not say that this of itself would do much for Ireland ; but it is the only thing that will give us a chance of doing any thing, as it affords the only means of acting upon the people by ensuring the co-operation of their leaders and advisers. We speak not of their chief movers at present, but of their natural and habitual leaders and advisers—the Catholic gentry and clergy. The difficulty of carrying such a measure through Parliament is, we apprehend, very much overrated. Who would have thought, three months before the introduction of the Catholic Relief Bill, that it would have passed the House of Lords by a majority of more than a hundred ? And so we think it would turn out now, if the question were well brought home to them, that the English people are too sensible and too just to care so much about the Irish Church as those who claim to represent the religion of the country would have us believe. They require but a little time and a little pressing to remove their scruples ; and if Mr. Cobden could, in the course of his travels, occasionally spare a bye-day to enlighten them, as to the real state of the case, the business would soon be done. At any rate, we believe that it is in the power of Lord John Russell and those who act with him, to de. it; and whatever deference we may feel for the feel ings which bid them refrain from doing all that they might do, we do not hesitate to say that if the Irish Church exists in all its solitude of ascendancy five years hence, it will owe it, though it may not choose to own it, to the forbearance of Lord John Russell and his friends. STANDARD.—The Morning Chronicle affects to admire the tone of Sir Robert Peel's speech. We admire it unaffectedly. We think that the Premier took his line of argument upon the Church question in the very best taste, and with the soundest judgment, and indeed sound judg ment rarely differs from good taste. Our Con temporary, however, while admitting and admiring the Right Honourable Baronet's premises, quar rels with his conclusion—namely, that the esta blished United Church must be supported without deterioration and without a rival. This is some what repugnant to logical rule; granting the pre mises, the conclusion legitimately drawn from these premises is usually taken as granted also. But we see where the Morning Chronicle has bewildered itself, it puts Sir R. Peel's reference to the creed of Roman Catholics generally, for—the creed it is not, but—the abject subjection of the political Roman Catholics, for which Sir H. W. Bar ron, Mr. More O'Ferrall, and Mr. Sheil spoke ; the latter are, however, as regards Roman Catholics generally, but a minority, and as regards intelligent Roman Catholics, a truly " miserable minority." In the Premier's reference to the addresses of the Operative Protestants, he did not condemn men for the expression of their opinions, but he complained, and with reason, of their inadvertently taking a course which !might seem to commit the Executive to these opinions, or compel them reluctantly to treat those taking that course with less kindness and respect than they really entertained for them. Was there any desertion of Protestants in this ? LAW INTELLIGENCE, HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 26. The House sat to-day to hear appeals. The Peers present were the Lord Chancellnr, Lord Brougham, Lord Cottenham, and Lord Campbell. SANDFORD V. MORRIS. The arguments in this part heard appeal were resumed and concluded to-day. The question in the case related to the law of real property. Their Lounsturs postponed their judgment. VICE-CHANCELLOR'S COURT, Feb. 26. (Before the VICE-CIIANCELLOR of ENGLAND.) His Honour took motions to-day, and was occupied the greater portion of the morning with one relative to an article of dress called antigropelos, or mud-boots. The matter has been several times before the Court, and it is unnecessary further to advert to it. COUR7' OF EXCIIEQUER, Feb. 26. (Before Chief Justice TLNDAL.) The Court was engaged this morning in hearing the case of Selby v. Mackade. It was an issue directed from the Vice-Chancellor's Court, and the object was to ascertain to whom certain moneys should be given. There was nothing in the cause of the least general interest. COURT OF COMMON PLEAS, Feb. H. (Sittings at Nisi Prius in London.) There were a few special jury cases and some common jury cases set down for trial to-Ziay, but nothing of an in teresting nature came before the Court. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. (YESTERDAY.) MARYLEBONE. Ford, an Irish labourer, was placed before Mr. Raw linson, charged with having stolen from an unfinished house in Ridgcmont-place, Paddington, five window-sashes, con taining about 60 squares of glass, the property of Mr. William Allen builder. John Hanworth, living nearly opposite the house from which the sashes were abstracted, saw a truck standing there on Saturday night, about twenty minutes after seven, and, suspecting something wrong, he watched, and Room after the prisoner came out, and, after placing the sashes on the truck, he moved off with it. The witness followed, and gave him into custody of Sergeant Taylor, on suspicion of *stealing them. Sergeant Taylor, 11 S., said that the prisoner told him he was going to take the property to a Mr. James, but could not satisfactorily answer AA to where that gentleman and would not give his own address. Ho was theretbre taken into custody. Joseph • Martin, clerk of the works to Mr. Allen, identified the property, and the prisoner having nothing to say in his defence, was folly 'committed for trial. 411(p1rct 4b Assn was charged with a street robbery, but c•Aso Gonld not be fully _proved, She was, however, cons ;Pitted for mouth to the house of Correction as a disorderly person, CLERKENWELL. .Richard Briggs ' 2, Cottage-building*, Pancras-street, Tot tenham-court-road, was charged with having been drunk and driving a cab without a badge. On Saturday afternoon police-constable, G 72, being on duty in AlArgaret-street, Ilagnigge-wells-road, saw the pri konCr driving the cab 1,263 at a rapid pace. The!prisoner was drunk, and had not proceeded far before ho drove his cab over the foot of a man, who was crossing the street. The officer took him into custody, and sent the cab to the Green-yard. It was there ascertained that the prisoner was an unlicensed driver, and had ; iti:PArding to his own state ment, been tidEeil tO , drive the cab by John Baxter, driver to 1311. 8 0 41 4 MC, cab proprietor. Lotter, who was present was placed at the bar and charged L by Mr. Seabrook, with neglect of duty. Baxter's defence was, that he merely asked the prisoner to attend to his cab, whilst in the Green Man public-house, Oxferd-atreet. Briggs admitted he waa tmliecaled• Mr. GREENWOOD said that Briggs had committed a bad offence. If the proprietor of the cab knowingly POr mitted an unlicensed person to drive it, he subjected himself to a fine of 101., and the licensed driver who employed an un licensed licensed person rende re d hi mse lf li a bl e t o a fine It a mercy that Briggs had not killed somebody. lie w" 8 fine Briggs, who had incurred a penalty of 5/., 21, or 0 % month's imprisonment and hard labour, shillings, or seven days. Jolin Blay and Thomas Wigley - were charged with assault ing police-constable Doyle 197, and Payne 216 G. eiag About twelve on Saturday night last the prisoners, b under the influence of liquor, were creating a disturbance r i e Tunimill-street, Clerkenwell, and the extraordinary vi° len .:„ of their conduct attracted an immense crowd about tiler, Doyle interfered, and begged of them to go away Vi et and Baxter te but instead of doing so the prisoners attacked him in &sal manner, and seeing that assistance was about coming t°, ll , aid ran into a house, in an upper room of which one of ta`,., hid himself in a be ' d, and the other under it. They were arrested by Doyle and Payne. When they got into A il ! street the prisoners again attacked them, and Doyle felt great pain from the injuries received. n ot Mr. GREE:MOOD sentenced the prisoners, who did - .„, press the least contrition for their brutality, to ten days 17 prisonment each. teri o On their way to the station-house several bad cha rac threw stones at the p o li ce , some o f w hi c h, striking t ed officers, hurt them severely. A di sso l u t e y ou ng man, aa r e of Lowman, was identified by p o li ce - consta bl e 22 G, 0- 4 the assailants. He was sent to prison for seven day". WORSHIP-STREET. _ is ad STABBING.—Martin Kelly, a young I r ishman, was cuarr .in, before Mr. Broughton, with having severely wounded a named Henry Coventry, by stabbing him with a chi whereby his life was endangered. ,throu gh It appeared that as the comp l a i nan t was p a ssing ,lock o u Whitecross-street, on his way ho m e, a b o ut one h o Sunday morning, the prisoner suddenly ran towards from the opposite side of the road, and accused him of ha haa run up a reckoning at a c er t a i n pu bli c -h ouse , w hich " 0 ". left unpaid. The compl a i nan t t o ld hi m th a t he I v s3 ,,„ Tu decl taken in the man, as he had never visited the house au 2 , o to, but the prisoner p e r s i s t e d i n th e c h ar ge, and, be -rthe shaking him in a violent m anner , a t th e same time using t he most offensive vituperations. After a short struggle , pet complainant succeeded in gettin away, b u t the Pr'ss'yo rushed at him, and pulled out a chisel from under the e of his coat, with which he stabbed him in several V 17,, The poor fellow, who wa s covere d w i t h bl o od, was ' ln hre diately conveyed to St. Ba r th o l omew ' s Hospital, w now lies in a dangerous state. O n rece i v i ng informatj e on 1 I ,i; the outrage, several policemen p rocee d e d i n s earch of t he k, soner, whom they at length tra c ed t o a no torious 10; vi l called George's-yard, and, aft e r a d es p era t e res istiuice, ll overpowered, and conveyed to the station-house. onl e Police-constable'lupin stated that he had seen t" . - c plainant that morning, whose face was sh o ckingly 111 7 „° ,116 and he had also received a se vere woun d, at least six "'" e - d I in length, in the fleshy part o f th e l e ft arm. He pro due certificate from the surgeon at the hospital. describing nature of the injuries. Iu his defence, the prisoner said that while he was him bl gling with the complainant, the chisel was given to a looker-on, who told him to use it, and having been duO freely, he unfortunately acted on the suggestion. The prisoner was then remanded for a week. - ....._ AY.) MARKET NEWS.-(YESTER-. ) CORN EXCHANGE. A de" n Of Wheat fresh up to-day the finest parcels conlin, - ii clSi steady sale, at prices fully equal to those of "" a ders,O, se'nnight. In the middling and inferior kinds only A ln 0 fill' amount of business was transacted. Malting Barley to o quotations—grinding and distilling sort on ea.sisr„ e d to. In Malt a trifling abatement in value was subnn . , o tir Oats at late rates. Beans, Peas, and Flour, at bal l ' tionary prices. CURRENCY PER IMPERIAL MEASUEE• to to." WitAT—Essex & Kent, IMALT—Chevalier.......l red ...... ...... 44.1 to 83. OATS—Yorkshire an , . o rs Ditto, white ... ~.. Mis to 66e Lincoltut., feed ... 9 sitA Norfolk and La. Potatoe .. , ........ . coin, red Ditto white 4ss to 58s! black . .............. 19 4 /0 ..,;,- Irish, red...... Ditto, white Rvg—Oki 244 to 33s Ilsyss—llck ........ .. ..... 3. 5% too New 36. to 3as PEAS— Grey . ..... ....."" sso t 4 ' y BARLEY—Grinding Malting ......... Chevalier 32. to 355, Boilers ......... .. ....... rim to HALT—Suffolk and Nor :FLOUR—Town raadc ... s o 07 folk 564 to 62s Sutlo k ..... " _.., ......... 345 t° Brimn sos to Ste Stockton kNorfolk Kingston and Ware 564 to 6t2s' 0 rD. is il. FOREIGN GRAIN AND FLOUR IN & BI f os i e s i WHRAT—Dantzic Hamhurgh 36s to 408 Pit A s.................. . ........ I to ?1", BARLEY 3os to als FLoult—American ..... . 2 0 to OATS—New Feed l4. to 16s SMITHFIELD. 0 gale ° f The scarcity of really prime Scots induced the . .. ot , 0 to hold for improved rates. Although we cannot C 1 L . ,,, tell actual advance in prices, they may be considered nbovr_ higher, yet the very highest figure realised for tpeii ii tfo? mentioned breed did not exceed 4s. per 81bs. Th e , , n ote: Trade may be considered steady, but by no meal° 1° " -- i i. 0 at prices about equal to those obtained on Friday' vol 0t very superior old Downs, realising 4s 6d per 81b4. . 0 01 4 about stationary prices. For Pigs late rates vet supported. , - Per Bibs. to sink the offal. s. cl. i q s. d. to p. A. I S 0 1 Interior Beasts. .... .... 210 8 I, Inferior Sheep .... . . ••• s 4 A I Second quality ditto... 3 4 3 8; Second quality ditto... . g • 0 Prime large Oxen 1 8 310 Coarse..woolled ditto.. .., g 4 / Prime Scots, &c. Large coarse Calves 3.10 4 41 Large Hogs ......... .... tl6 I 0 Prime small ditto 4 6 4 10, Small Porkers ..........,4 g' Suckling Calves, each 18' 0 20 0 I Quarter old Pigs, eacnh - SUPPLY AT MARKET. rig , Beasts. I Sheep. I Calves. I 5,1 2,310 I 24,560 83 Azle* 11 ATEU7GATE AND LEADZN7O.-- griP • With meat killed in the metropolis, we have heel:l4..ooh supplied. Prime Meat has sold steadily, at full quo!: basfl but ity - All other kinds a limited amount of business in , transaoted, and the pri ces o f suc h are b ar ely maintAil lg At per stone, by the Carcass i, a. sag 0 2. d. to.. (1.1 4 I Beef. inferior 2 2 2 4 Mutton, inferior .••••' qlO : I -- ruidiling - middling. •r" - 4 ' 0 - - Frime large - p rime ........• !• , i - prime small V eal 3 6 4 101-small... ........ ... 3 ARRIVALS DURING THE PAST WEE K. Pit a Beasts. Sheep. Usiv'' OP' Scotland 3O 600 --- 9 0 Yorkshire - 2 15 Norfolk - . 18 Suffolk lB 120 Cambridgeshire .. Essex 2211 v ,?) Surrey 42 400 Devonshire Wiltshire Other parts ...----. _ A t i Total - - ~,I 6.11 a 209 2,565 I ",_, gr 7: Previous week's arrival 355 2,572 Er" .....r a i .--....-- .-----' Difference since since our last... 146 7 1 qr - 1 BOROUGH HOP BIARZZ--• 400 i fi, With the exception of Weald of Bents, in pock s per r advanced 2s, some parcels having produced 61 17 s o P t e o tio 01 : 0 we have no variation whatever to notice in the 4 11 u ppli The demand, however, is very steady, with limit e4 5 on offer. S. icli BOROUGH AND sirxTmansz- ID Ad i pi i Prime qualities of Potatoes are in demand, at "-- but in other kinds very little is doing. tifl% 09 • WOOL MARZET. li d : vori By private contract, notwithstanding the suPP-- at v are large for the time of year, the demand is activ* full prices. ..; - 10 1 TALLOW. . ow_iiol There is but little variation in this market shic- fall ' AO no report. There is very little disposition to meal° ,-; ale 7 for the Autumn. Town Tallow is plentiful, and •• . 41s 6d to 42s net cash. Il 1 4 TDB LATE -MILIT ARY O UTRAGE AT „i e At the East Sussex adjourned sessions on Friday Hubbard, a corporal in the 7th Hussars, privates gro oe! e t t , Baldwin, M'lntyre, and Weston, and John Ke en ,st l3 _N l Captain Sir W. Russell, were all i n di c t e d for havnil, ton, on the Ist of February, unlawfully and riotoll„d r 10 3 701 bled to disturb the peace, and being so msembledi l ipd "„ti• fully and violently assaulting Lorenzo Leuriena A il roe persons, and damaging their house and propertY• sent° soners, except the corporal, had b een b a iled out by i t e The prisoners (except William s ) were a ll found j oil , fpf Earl of Chichester, in pa ss i ng sen t ence , sa id the 11 : c i i . ster been guilty of a most serious offence, and one wl" t i t % cnt ° the infliction of heavy puni s hm en t. H e regretted D a 031 dit which to some extent their conduct must th,,, 19 0 1 ji l t e regiment to which they belonged. Ile had "a bed 7th all his life. The regiment had been clistic l „, l- eri c ! t ok for its services in the field, its conduct in gam ‘ s ) , — ,:t abilities of its commanders. He had no doubt . they CP soners had received previous provocation, and t hil ' 001:0 labouring under excitement, for under no other circ J ac w e could he believe that British soldiers could ceinn” t i tl l ° V outrage. Still they had disgraced themselves, thef t : 1 4 discredit on the distinguished regiment to wh: c t oeu ° o l)° longed. The peaceable inhabitants of Brig l . l°o the° B 10 1 , protected against such outrages, particularly frf in ,ieil t o " al; were stationed there for. the purpose of aiding th e ,i the oe, in the preservation of the peace. The sentence v_, t iott 9 was, that they be committed to the House of Co kept to hard labour fur ten months. The case, t 3 the midnight, after occupying ten hours, during sc''." bt, was densely crowded. nig l d .001 : 0 SUICIDE AT WATERL OO - BR IDGE.—wQ./ 1 - g b o few - minutes after eleven o'clock, a decently-are- d ieee• 011 passed through the tollkeeper's gate on the Al",' r eel Asi a Waterloo-bridge. On arriving at the sew n the was observed suddenly to q u it the path, wo uet o ar a t e throw herself from the parapet. Every exert knees es °` to rescue her from her fate, but from the dar ial evening, no traces could be discovered. _ BIRTHS. irh it 11 6r1 , -s- ,. : On the 20th inst., Mrs. Joseph Dodson, 1 ' --4' „is' ''' Tottenham, of a daughter. GIP' Qn the 22d inst., at Reading, Berko, the lady ot o rk Tuprnan, R.N., of a son. . Ni A On the 23d inst., in Henrietta-street, Br an° - . 0 / r Mrs. James Ewart, of a con. Ay Al liel* On the 23d inst., at Whitehall-place, Le- , Iv 4 ,' daughter. of the On the 22d inst., in Guildford-street, the ROY f s lit T y r . Boles Mqra,y, era son. of 'i Sv. % On the 22d inst., at Wilton-place, the WY Esq., barrister -at-law, of a son. -------- 1101 t MARRIED. Cherlel pt' On the 22d inst., at North Shoeburv, Essex' to Ch o f tl l° Esq., surgeon, of Finsbury-place South, London , -c. o n., 4 ls Benton, youngest daughter of Samuel Benton, ' in leP ii e- - i f f, former place. On the 22d inst., at the Holy Trinity Church , 119 f o 'r)L . t h oo k Gee, Esq., of Cottiugham and Bridlington-VaL Ars' ' to Elizabeth Jane, eldest daughter of Theil" Esq., of Hull. the rev. Chels ea ' 10 4 On the .22d inst., at Trinity Church, ri o ~, Ekins, 8.C.L., Rector of Sampford, Essex, t°- ke,P - '" Jane, second daughter of the late George Hart PY SO DIED. in 0 ° lll On the 11th of January last, at Ma nnheim, ' ..‘ ili ot Captain William Payne. Mr On the 12th inst., at Leamington Priors , o i l ln e g htdr On the 20th inst., Mrs. Phoebe Money , se" n ,OP the late John Priest, Esq., of Farnham. ir i,itak e " On the 20th inst., Julia, the wife of John 1, - it , of Hull. iii, 0 f On the 22d inst., at Charlton, Mary , the If IfilLi t w Longlands, Esq. S h e ffield , On the 22d inst., at Bolsover, nea r Joseph, eldest child of William Rose, Esq. CO aill6 On the 22d inst., in Caroline-street, Eaton-44°1* poi wife of Mr. Henry Baker. A Suff° l/4 A, On the 22d inst., at Stoke-by-Naylm u., „ g i p— Anne, third daughter of the late E. Liveing, .r Al ''' toe, ' On the 22d inst., at Bishop's Hun, near Te' an 1 ,4 the wife of theinst Dr. Everard. end, roc the 9th .. M. Joseph Almerie de St. An , o f sr officer of the Guards of his late Majesty Louis X' ' ,G, es -- ---- ,-. —- 0 01 % 1 0 -----tiltpkt London: Printed and Published by M tren d ' No. 112, Strand, at The Sun Office It o. 112. 1144, County of Iliddlosx, Tuesday, Februarf :"' •t tle Th Ir, .!`ee lei !t) . t ) tic4 • 1 ;1 1 41 ai (I P a h „ ih a hi Z , N et , t+a t Oti 4 'ets 4 t, ; b 1 8 '1 ht. t e a ,l et.„4