The Sun. — London, England, 1839-03-12 00:00:00

: EVENING ED/T.ION . nter- Ait. the ruler 11101 but .. s ed ,ts of Lo rd :Nlr. LEADE R thought t h e answer o f ate Noble I was as unf a ir as it was pumsi'ole.—(oll, oh.) He f Would proVe it in a moment.—( Laughter.) The cote fillet of the Noble Lord %yes as unfair to his Hon. 4 Ptietd the- Member for Finsbury as it was to those Peri Cons engaged in the theatrical prefessien in West- t Minster. He had - treated the question as if it, ti: kilted to theatres generally—as if it aeplied ant. 1! only to the theatre§ in the Whole of the metropolis, but to the theatres throughout the country. Now every :I o ne knew that the question was confined to the t.heatres 4 , ill Westminste r . The Noble Lord said the feelings or the peopl e weuld be shocked by the theatres being kept I o pen on Wednesdevs and Fridays—hut if suer, was the (rose those persons rims:: have very India-rubber con seienees who were shoekiel at performauceA in West transter while they were not at the seroc things in Lam bctli or Marylebone.—(Hear bear.) }le thought that . , th.e conduct of hi s Honourable Frieze' was perfcctly jus tifi ~ble, l , caue eee Mieisters had teeeted a resolution "'' shat House with utter contempt, and ordered their. 21 amberlain to treat it as nothing. It might be a tie °lt, g matter to the Noble Lord and to the House, but it 1\1 ..' a very different affair to the many blind-a - els of fa n .'l` , s Who ‘tet-. robbed by the absurd regale' tion of one , ' i l i ' l ' l et their weekly earnings. Tee conduct of the (' l, e Lord W,s .certainiy not very cc oeistent—(Cheere I atli hurphte r )__l otit he was very .elruft t'ilat. the Noblelee i bait come round to a better wr.q of thint.ing. -Mr. 11 /:.‘'iIIBURTON could runt agree with much t he` had falle n f rom th e N o bl e ',teed, tout as; in the let '" Part of his speech 1:e had shoern so much conelliation -e-,l .ou•lchl:ers)—he thought tl Ae motion of the Honour aele Nlen.ber for Fiesbery, if pre:•.sed would show a ;l e er y had- s e i r i t . Th e e h o l e a ri air was a ver y small mat r ' a"d could only be raised into importance by oppo 'it" lr'• Now that it haul got into the stream of opinion, .. :.'1:!iell wa s lik e l y to wa f t i t —(L aue l iter )— to a favour °-'- seal; he thought it would be inierndent to press motion. te -.. St r He INGLIS trusted that the - House would not t . i i i - k it right to censure her Majesty's Government for cour se they had theught proper te ptir:ue. The peo ple el E i• e (k uguan u were entitled to haye the question fully eues td, o f that there could he no doubt, but he would be 4 ... • ° Prirty in favour of that which he believed was not Just, , It had been stated that this was a relict le barbarous a ge . H e b egge d l eave t o deny that :P"ition• Ti.,..re could be to doubt that ge pr opert i on o f t h e people of England did not rlt id er the prevention of performances on Wednes ' 3 : 4 awl Fridays as the remnant of a barbarous age 'CONN I 'a m 4 r• O s s" e Ll, could not consider that the lame of tl.e public was tlarown away in discussing the eee T v it . question.- Ile was as inti . cli . es any . man lot . the . N 's . :- anee of Lent, but lie thou ht if the views of the i : 1 - 4, ! btronet were to he coal 'd into effect, instead of i i ttioa• liirwelt, he was desirous thet all connected with e ' wo th eatres s h ou ld f ast. —(H ear, h ear ). H e t h oug ht f o l yns ludicrous that two theatres should be prevented 0, 41 having peeformances on the nights in question, and eat other theatres in London should not. we Alr. PLUMPTRE t h oug h t i f any vote o f censure i gi :i lnissed upon Ministers, it ought to be for having 1 4' way oe this subje c t.—( H ea r, he a r.) '..: r ' PUNCOMBE said that if it was understood ::: " alteration was intended to be made in the next gigs'"ll un on thi s su bj ect ,h e s h ou ld h ave no o bj ec ti on tto ° n moti on , b ut h e w i s h e d t o h ave a direct or .from th e N o bl e L or d as to w h et h er suc h was 'r a 55. not his intention. sht: :::( 1 S'OHN RUSSELL observed that he had es a , t _ e d generally the views that the Government had 'tined upon the subject, and, having done so, he his motion. object to the Honourable Member withdrawing s p i Ti le SPEAKER.—D oes t h e H on . M em b er f o r n sG • tirs indend to divide the House ? tio kr. T. DUNCOMBE had no wish to put the k eo us e to ithat alternative, but he was desirous of th e w ing whether the Noble Lord had the sanction of it ', Bish op of London to the Bill, which he had stated th ‘_ l . is the int - Rntion of-the Government to introduce in li en e c e s x n t sv, S e e r ssion.—(Hea r , hear.) Unless he bad a dis upon that subject from the Noble Lord, (illiveTuld divide the House, even if he stood alone— ight' r ' hear)—because he considered that be had a that to ask whether the Bishop of London, after what eon __ 'gilt Rev. Prelate had stated, had given his 4;essioni to the measure of the Noble Lord. the SPEAKER. —Well, then, do you divide? e _ !Mr- T. DUNCOMBE.—C er t a i n ly, Sir, unless I 41 1 get a sat i s fa ctory answer from the• Noble Lord. fewStranears were then ordered to withdraw, but, after a observations from M r . CHARLES BULLER, the motion was withdrawn. SUPPLY. NleT.lfTelleetouese t hen went into a Committee of Supply, pi ° • 1 A in t h e: Chair.—That 34,165 men be em t. )e , for the Sea Servic e for thirteen lunar months, to she :31st of March, 1840, including 9,000 Royal Ma "es, and 2,000 boys. w _nlion the qu e st i on that a sum o f 34,0001. a nd up "s sh ou ld b e voted for the support. of semen, Srl He PEEL rose.—lt was not his intention to fake any opposition to the vote that had just been o r , e - r se d• Peer Majesty's Government had, upon their te j e re sPonsibility, proposed the vote, and by that of n ' s had determined the general 'amount of number een s s e i a d men. that should be engaged. No one who at all cliee eu r . ed the q ues ti on cou ld en t er t a i n an y doubt of the to h i tl with which it was surrounded. It appeared th e t t , h, that th e ma i n cons id era ti on of the House was s he str engt h in t hi s countr y ; and, secondly, the 41 n et of politi ca l a ff a i rs , from which, and from which be ci.e ; t he Hous e cou ld judge of the strength likely to otre l' iP uir °d• Now, looking at political aspects through the " Ni ' l e world, be felt bowel to say that the increase of N ese ', avY proposed was not extravagant. It was im tioesi'le for the House to exclude from its considera le ° th e preparations that had been made by other - ° ears ......_ the e j • when they : looked to what had been done in le e United States and in Russia—(Hear, hear) —the :seer must not only look at the strength of othe r th e s, but they must also look to see on what Powers that e ° l llel rely for co -operation. It was all very well stet n 0 course s h ou ld b e t a k e n that would produce a th e ; °l' feveri s h ac tivity, but he trusted that Ple e ' W ould l not adopt that course which would °ba ll e t t here under the imputation of bringing to , 4 t " evil of raising disturbances. He was bound e xert ? that the time had now arrived, looking at the lithstriilla,nsttrhyaottliigad been made by other Powers, when ht : to interfere, and upon that ground lia er th "ed that her Majesty's Government would con hoe. e , e . Proposal that . had been made by his Right th e b -c o ',lend, and make such additions to the strength of th ttt eivards as might be required.' He trusted that th e _ tradition would be made in corresponding ratio to heell'e:fn other Powers. He (Sir R. Peel) would . have eee er l sotent to have discussed the present question on t he A Principles if it had not been for the speech of st. t h eir ° l °. Gentleman opposite (the Secretary for the Act, e l !' ty), who, finding himself pressed upon the sub othiehTiought it right to reflect on the Government of Th e a (Sir R. Peel) was a Member.—( Hear, hear.) sta g °o• Gentleman had talked about Conservative ti s and Conservative condemnation.—(Hear, hear.) o w h (Sir. e e R. Peel) must be allowed to say that that _t attle _ te es, r i t mation had not come from, Conservative quer le out from an anonymous writer.—(Hear, hear.) 4 w toe s as surprised to find the Government so sore on b ed 1. attacks, b ecause h e f oun d th a t th o se who st eed ' en loudest in attacking the Government, in \f 1, of being denounced, had been rewarded liberally. eer\!lear, h ear .) A s a proo f o f t h at lie could only re oorni.° wh at had been done for Admiral Napier and e r 9ander Craufurd. Those gallant officers, instead r eeti el "g denounced, had been hid up to public esti kiia °.!"--(ll e ar, hear.) It, therefore, could not be 41e h tel : a h t a t t a, hadc,,tlltiea ttac.k had come from the Conservatives. come from the friends of the Govern te,CZtilica, hear.) He must, therefore, deny that tipon his G " ad a right to make any attack upon him, or erna nent.—(Hear, hear.) In the first place he should proceed to consider whether the attack th at had been made upon te a , • it ~ lh e o s u t l T i e u, l , or riot ; end ha l : l it-7g .! o r r ep o e n lle h a ts that attack, e , es . tit proceed to inquire, whether the course r t ' :. tied by the Admiralty was altogether without blame. aelPeered th a t th e tid e was now set aga i nst econo my e4il k (Lau,. he (Sir R. Peel) was ch a r ge d, be tie,.'i he adv oca ted economy on a former occasion, with G,7 e ,ting the i n t eres ts of the naval service. The Hon. th - '`• . 'aid that be had been the caused all the reductions tr e ., s " , l taken place ; that the present Government had in- P,, e ` i - ,: \ " t , he navy in 1835 and 1836, whereas his (Sir R. IQ lq..kiovernment. had prepared inadequate estimates vot e r'• He ht , 2ged to remind the House it they chose to 1 4,00 0 _ • et . , e or 35,000 men in 1839. Or any other num le3l'iat was no conclusive proof that the estimates of int o in wer inadequate. Fi e (Sir R. Peel) had come G v °ree, Q en . ,. in, 1834 , 'S'ad he found that in 1818 the o- d toari ees L . haft teen content with 20,000 seamenan 1 Th , 13, 1 a " - d . in 1823 with 25,000 seamen and marines. t tel e 2p_upesition he mede to the House in 1835 was . o t I Nte •' ) " .4l ° men ; and' it was no proof because the esti 'tits ;,, H1 181 8 was only 20,000, that his (Sir R. Peel's) 4 ow ; 11 a 1) :°,1),er or exaggerated. Nor, because . _ the Vrate esti :eat : i _°l,soo, was that to be a commendation of the 'tee% he had proposed. What wore the eircum tehte, m which b e was p l ace d ? H e h a d l an d e d i n (A ce : 3 'u ten th e 9 t h o f D ecem b er, and b ad accepte d Mit e , II the 10th. The Board of Admiralty was con that " t `' l d le ° o the Ist of January, and Parliament required estimates should be laid on the table within a lort o i 4 , e411, e ,. ~ , i a t after its meeting. The House would re c; T ,. 1 . 'lt ill August, 1834, his late Majesty made a 10 0 n l or e the, Throne, in which he stated that pro ea4so peace reigned throughout Europe, and that all 4,teeee:rhanixie,ty was at . an end. Under these eireurn aible to e bad determined to adhere as nearly as thepos three.eo estimates. As his Noble Friend had said, ( L itio vs u t rth s of the estimates were taken as the foun fe4rot o_ )f tlaOee which th.y brought ferwa'd. He Pea ce tv "ere was nothing to warrant a suspicion that riot b e "Id be disturbed, and considered that it would Ile Wi se to provoke the jealousy• of other Powers. eeeieuKed to the provision which his predecessors had IL r - lie looked l e thee seeec'e of his Meir , stv, and to Dyer• ,ouse then o pen. If the Of u pon nter that vlini jesty Iron! :used that w ere ob per: ;Sept t this Hon• that. Ma ished un3er vould posed -alled 03C °I. The o the ISt it, ough t sea A 3 that It )e r of than Nletn' ler, it I Wa s that Corn' estion )pro , that artir , st and I ITO' o ber:, jestY 5 hat hi mane, n, 8 9" rfectl, !d t 8 r e ; to Se' - bee ° sa l a r ) , erfor ° , caus e, w iles a daYs: all ist is•adequate b, prepiratious ' U . :at p;reh - e . u - sions ' of foreign war existed. What force lied tine in December, 1834, at Plymouth, Portsmouth, and Sheerness ? They had not one first-rate—not one second-rate—not s i n e third -rate—net one fourth-rate—not one fiith or sixth —sent one sloop, and not one steers vessel 1. They had ettitionary ships, hut net one sheele vessel .in the ports or harbours of Great Britain. —(Hear, beer, hear.) --Did he say they were wrong on that account ? No, but it proved that they felt confident that there was no danger, dud that peace was not likely to be invaded. In the preceding year the number employed fell short of the estimate by 1,200 or 1,800 men, three larger . ves-els, the Caledonia, Trafalgar, and another, having emue home; and he proposed to take the number of men ac— tually employed, making the estimate less than the pre ceding year by 1,500 men. Believing that then- ap pointment did not endanger the peace of Europe— feeling no apprehension of that sort, he had followed in the steps of his predecessors. After the experience of four or five months it would have been open to them, if they found, as no doubt they. should have found, that the estimates were inade quate, to have stated their case to the House of Commons, and the House with mere readi ness would have given them increased means from seeing that they were determined riot to act upon vague appre hensions of danger. With all their economy. the Hon. Member for Kilkenny and his friends had kept the estimates for ;t beg period berore the Heuse, and he (Sir Robert Peel) hed been obliged to ask the Honour able Gentleman to waive his ohjeetion, and obtain a vote in order to issue the usual notice for the pay of the sea men and marines. If Honourable Geetlernen on the other side thought that his estimates were miserably inadequate, and that he was undermining the naval strength of the country, why bad they not the manliness to come forward and propose at. increase ? (Loud cries of " Hear.") When - his (Sir R. Peel's) Government had put in a claim for economy, they had been taunted on the other side by sayin g hat it did not belong to them, and when they had dimioished the estimates by 4,0001. or 5,300/., every attempt was made to lessen the credit of tura reduction. What was the amount of the enormous reduction they had made ? On the Ist of December, 1834, the Esta blishment left by their predecessors consisted of eleven sail of ts e line and, altogether, one hundred and sixty pennants. These iresdequte estim ,tes enabled Hon. Gentlemen opposite, in 1835, to have 167 ships em ployed in her Majesty's naval service. It was quite true that an increase teas proposed in the following year, and - he (Sir R. Peel) supported it.. 1836 a demand was made for 3,000 more men, arid he hail assented to it with perfect readiness, because the rule of 1835 was no criterion for the vote that ought to be taken in 1836 ; and although the Hon. Gentleman in his speech the other night had said that the estimate of 1835 should have been equal to that of 1836, yet the Noble Lord did not think so. In 1836 he said he was ready to admite that when the estimates were laid be fore the House last year, there seemed no necessity for a higher estimate than what was then proposed, but he was satisfied that if an increase had been shown to be necessary it would have been assented to. That was a distinct admission by the Noble Lord, that the estimates proposed by him (Sir Robert Peel) were sufficient. If his estimates had been inadequate, was it not in the power of the Hon. Gentleman to have come down in the mouth of June, and submit a supplementary esti mate to the House ?. If the necessity was established, Parliament would at once have granted it. Ho hoped, however, that with all due regard for economy, her Majesty's Government would well consider the cir cumstances in which they were placed. He was not anxious to alarm the country unnecessarily, but looking at the state of affairs abroad—looking at the north western frontier of India, and the war in which they were likely to be involved in that vast empire—looking at the state of Canada—looking at the unsettled boun dary question in the United States, and the act of de monstration which was making in the other hemisphere, he did hope that the Government . would consider whether there might not be justifiable demands for an increase of the naval establishments of that country be. yond their present_force. He did think that the force they had was not sufficient to give that protection to the commercial interests of the country which the exi gencies of the case required. He could not reconcile the present disposition of their naval force with the de mands made on them for the protection of British commerce ; and he would state his grounds. In 1836, when the Hon. Gentleman moved for an increase of their naval establishments, he stated that there was no British naval station in the world from which there were not pressing demands for an increased force—in the Pacific, where the English trade was increasing, from Valparaiso and the whole of the western coast of Mexico. When be looked at the large force now at • the disposal of the Go vernment—when he called to mind that they had 21 sail of the line and 34,500 men, he was induced to inquire whether they had given that protection to British commerce in South America which it required ? He would instance one case—in Mexico there were eight or nine establishments of British capitalists engaged in striving speculations. There was a very considerable amount due by Mexico' to the inhabitants of that coun try who had advanced money ; and in Vera Cruz, Campaoca, and every other large town of Mexico there were large British commercial establishments. He thought the amount of British capital and enterprise at work in that country was sufficiently great to demand protection.—( Hear, hear.) The Government had early notice that France had made urgent demands upon Mexico. They were aware that even on the 21st of March, 1830, France was about to enforce those de mands. He could not stop to consider whether or not the claims of France were unjustifiable or not, or whether or not the representations she had made were neglected by Mexico—but he would repeat thit her Majesty's Government had had early notice that France intended to demand reparation from Mexico, and was making preparations to do so.—(Hear, hear, hear.) They must be aware that soon after March, 1838, France, in requiring reparation from the Government of Mexico, not only demanded the dismissal of certain Judges and officers, who had, as was alleged, improperly ' and unjustly treated French subjects resident in Mexico, ' but that France had also made another demand, which, as a sine qua non, as an indispensable condition for the prevention of hostilities, it must be admitted, we a novel ' demand from one independent Statq. another ; that 'IA French inhabitants ' France had also demanded re siding in Mexico sllnid be entitled to carry on retail trade on tl. same principles and with the same adven tee;es as the native citizens of Mexico.—(Herr.) That certainly was a very strange demand.—( Hear.) Not only did France de:nand reparation for whatever injury the persons and property of her subjects had suffered at the hands of Mexico—not only did she de mand the dismissal of those authorities who had impro- perly treated French subjects—but France also de- harried with it great weight. He confessed that when he mended that her subjects should be permitted to carry saw a statement in the papers that his Right Hon. Friend on retail trade with the same privileges as the citizens had taken occasion to observe that in his opinion there of Mexico. These demands were made in March, was a great difference between the naval Admieistration 1838. And the French Charge d'Affaires in under Lord Melbourne, and that under Lord Grey ho had making these demands, stated in his ultimatum that felt some degree of alarm, not being acquaint, d with the particulars of the case. He thought, therefore, it ass " should the answer be in the negative to only one of those demands, or should it be . even doubtful, on the not fair t G t o o ver s o ta m t e e nt that g ife r .r ave m e e h s a t rges bad aga n i o n t st the p m r a e d s t one hand, or be delayed beyond the 15th of April on and that, too, by j gen 3 t ' lemen of high the other, then the undersigned should place the con- authority on the Opposition Benches ; and his Hon. tinuation of the affair in the hands of Mons. Baudin, Friend was perfectly justified in meeting and resisting them the Commander of his Majesty's Naval Forces (a in the manner he did. The Right Hon. Baronet had division of which was then on the coast), stated that he had every reason to believe it bad been the who had already received orders to put those intention of Lord Auckland to have proposed a reduced demands into execution. This was conclusive. A French estimate for the number of men in 1835. He could posi. naval force appeared before Mexico in March, 1838. Now tively state that nothing was further from the thoughts of without entering into any consideration of the justifiable- Lord Auckland than to have reduced the number of men ; ness of the French demands—assuming them to be per- and if that Board of Admiralty had continued, the same num fcctly just and reasonable—he would affirm that the Bri- berof men would have been demanded as had been demanded tish subjects resident or engaged at Vera Cruz and Mexico in the preceding year.—( Hear, hear.) He had heard had a right to protection from our Government—( Hear, with pleasure that part of the speech of the Right Hon. hear)—not to oppose the French, but to give confidence Baronet, in which he stated what he believed to be the to the British.--( Hear, hear.) In July it was resolved true policy of the country in regard to naval preparations. by the French Government that an expedition should sail He agreed with him that nothing could be more impolitic to enforce reparation from Mexico. It left Brest on the than to yield to any unreasonable cry. The true policy 13th of September. .It arrived off Vera Cruz on the was, to reduce the Naval establishment to as 25th of October. Those dates were important. The low a degree as could be done consistently with the safety bombardment of' San Juan d'Ulloa ; and yet after all the and reputation of the country, and- to take care that the warning there was no British Minister at the place then— naval docks and arsenals were in such a state that on any he would admit there was a subordinate there, but occasion of danger arising, it might be in their power to surely the Minister himself, who did not arrive at call into action those great commercial and financial re- Vera Cruz until the 22d of December, should sources of the country, on which, after all, our naval supree have -be e n there at the time of the attack—San macy rested.—( Hear, hear.) He believed that was the Juan d'Ulloa was attacked on the 22d of November, and true policy of the country, and he confessed that he had Vera Cruz was captured on the 4th or sth of December, heard in the statements of his Hon. Friend the Under Se- But after the ample notices we had received, weat force cretary of the Admiralty, what appeared to him to be plain was there off the Mexican coast for the protection of' proof that that had been the policy pursued by the present British life and properly ? Was there a single ship of war Board of Admiralty, and which, in his opinion. was the belonging to this country off Vera Cruz at the time of the wisest and most judicious course.—( Hear, hear.) attack ?—( Hear, hea r .) H e f oun d i n t h e Gl o b e, a Mi n i s . Si r ROBERT PEEL an d Lord ASHLEY, said a few terial Paper, of the Bth of February, a letter from a Cor- words in explanation, re-le:indent at Vera Cruz, which e stat e d th e situation of the Capt. A'COU R,T hoped the House would excuse him British inhabitants may be conceived ellen it is recollected while he M) . fl.a that there was not a single British man-of-war before the thee' a few observations. He would express his place during the attack.. The Satellite , -..es to Ca p t ain Craufurd and had been there a short time before. b te, ut , a I the Flag Officer who had called the attention of the country to the neglected state of December." This was during on the Ist of its naval force. H. thought the Gallant Admiral oppo of the treaty, when the flee— ~re crisis of the pending site (Admiral Adam) might have been a little more coar eeinmander of th e S ate llit e must • teous in his language towards that Flag Officer. H , (Cap. know the loss are! dang e r to which Britis h intere sts were 'tain A'Court) had the pleasure of knowing him , and ha d expoeede — "But, stippo..ing th a t the Sate llite did 'r emain, in early life served under his command, and a more intela lee would ask whether, with our force of twenty-one sail, gent, active, gallant, and zealous of fi cer did not exist in her of the line, and 34,000, men one sixt een gun brig would be Majesty's service.—( Hear, hear). What he wished to call sufficient for the protection of British life and property? the attention of the Committee to was the utterly defence ( Hear, bear. )—lndeed, the Express pocket succeeded the less state of our coasts and barbours, of the truth of which Satellite, and the account stated that on the first mevernent any gentleman might convince himself by visiting any of of the attack, about 30 persons took refuge in the packet, our seaports. Our three principal po r ts ou g h t not to be which left on the 15th December, the day after the Mad e - withou t three well-manned line of-battle ships, which gascer arrived. The Morning Chronicle confirmed the ought to cruise in the Channel for the exercise and statement of the Globe. If Government said that a naval practice of the men. If this plan were adopted we force was not then necessary before Vera Cruz or on the should be prepared for any sudden emergency. It had coast of Mexico, because the French were authorised by been said the Russian Baltic fleet was a mere pasteboard the law of nations to blockade, he would ask the Govern- one. There could not be a greater danger than killing teent why had we a naval force in the neighbeurhood of other posers too cheap. The Russian fleet was a moat Mexico now ? Why had we taken our squadron from formidable sue, and it was worse than folly to underrate it. the North American States and placed then, in the Gulf of If other powers bad large ships we ought to have the same. Mexico?—( Hear, hear ) Of course this force teas not to H ear, hear.) But then he was met with an o b jection as attack the French fleet, nor in apprehension of hostilities to the exp ense . Wh en h e foundincurred on the coast of from it. but in the event of any outrage being committed by ' Spain. without either honour, glory, or profit to the country, ran-uthorisee persons Breiih lit , Or operty. to afford an expense more than equal to cover the expenee of keep b• tier Means of e;ed,i,t , and pr , :tectiou than could be lug the Navy i n an e ffi c i ent s t a t e , he could not consider that given by the Express packet. How then, did it happen, a valid objecti on . I t was f or the country and the Admi that after th e ample notice her Majesty's Government had I rally to take care th a t t h e B r iti s h Navy was not matched. received th e y, having been granted a f or ce of twenty-one I Mr. SOMERSET MAXWELL begged to gi v e h i s sail of t h e line, and 34.000 men, should have been so re - I testi mony o f the private character of C a p t. Craufurd. '. 44 " . reee of Brelah ica - reStS in the: (leerier. Now, he Ad u ADAM said, that in referring to what les Hon. ' , hat ort,, vans i-hero ire the :•1,5 , 11 Frir•wi beside hint (Mr. Wood) lied said, he had ceftsteily ''"e now in the Mediterranean? True, it had been said , stated that he had convicted the writer of that pamphlet of THE SUN, LONDON. TUESDAY, MARCH 12, 1839. the other night, that they were not there because British interests were threatened, but because they would 1w better there than at home. Now, he did not think so.---( Hear, Lear ) Either the squadron in the Me6iterranean was necessary or it was i,ot ; if it was necessary that eleven sail-of-the-line should be in the Mediterranean, and two at Lishot e al be would say wss that the remain. ing seven stub of. the-line appeared insdequato for the protection of the coasts of this country, or to me: t any difficulties that might arise. But if these eleven sail were not necessary in the Mediterranean, he would ask why we, cireunistaner d as we were, should not have fire or six of them ready fer our protection at home?—( Haar, bear.) He wanted to have this riispropottionate distribution ex plained. They had said that the ships in ordinary might be fried nut rapidly enough to meet any emergency, but he denied that. The rapidity with whiali the Malabar had been fitted out, to replace the Implacable on the North American coast, had been alluded to; but if a fleet could be so rapidly fitted out, he much doubted whether they would have withdrawn the fleet from North America.— (Hear, hear.) Now, he would refer to the state of our Navy in times of peace f o r th e proteetion of the home coast. In 1792 we had twelve sail of the line for the home service. On the Ist December, 1634, excepting - he sta tionary ships, we had not one ship for the protection of the home coast, of the first, second, third, fourth, firth, or sixth rates.—(Hear, hear.) Referring again to the absence of any force of ours on the coast of Mexico, he asould say that if our ships were not wanted there for opposition or protection, they would al least be necessary to sustain the moral influence which this country ought cc possess, and which he feared would be diminished if we continued to act upon such a system. The eleven sail of the line would certainly have beet' better employed if, in stead of making useless demonstrations in the Mediterra nean, they had been employed at Mexico, and showing our fellow-subjects that they had not been forgotten.—( Hear, hear.) He trusted that the act of taking the pilot from the Express Packet, would not give rise to the least mis understanding between the two great powers—he would not say one word to place a difficulty in the way of a satis factory explanation—he felt the utmost confidence that a great country like France, jealous of its own honour would be amongst the first to respect the honour of another country. He had the fullest confidence that that eminent and distinguished man who now ruled the destinies of France— who filled the throne of that country—who exercised an influence on its councils less because he was King of a , great people, than because he was endowed With vast quail- ties of mind and powers of command which constituted him the first man of the day since Bonaparte—because he was a man who through the greatest vicissitudes of pros perity and adversity had acquired a great fund of sagacity, and had encountered the most wonderful opportunities of displaying both personal and moral courage ; and had shewn a combination of fortitude, experience, and pru dence which he firmly believed would induce fu ture generations of Frenchmen to regard him as the most eminent man France had produced since the great conqueror he bad named—on those ac counts he - (Sir R. Peel) believed that whatever arrange is were entered into wins respect to that affair, Would he perfectly satisfactory to the people of tins country. Hear, hear.) He was sure that in taking the pilot it would be seen that there was no intention of offering an insult to this country. But then for the satisfaction of tbis country it should be seen how the occuerenee had actually taken place.—( Hear, bear, bear.) It was necessary that we should learn why the Captain of the Express had made no opposition to the taking away a pilot of a neutral vessel. He did not mean to say that the Captain of the Express should have hazarded the lives of his men by a chivalrous fight against overpowering numbers, but he ought to have protested against the act—he ought to have taken his stand on deck, and have asserted that to superior force ;done he would yield.—( Hear, hear.) No doubt the Ad miralty were informed of all these particulars already from Lieut. Croke himself; but the public would not be satis fied unless they had, all the facts of the case laid before them. He (Sir R. P.) took it for granted that an ample apology had already been given to this Government ; but he trusted that for the sake of upholding the sanctity of the lows of nations and to prevent the enormous evils that must ensue if the British flag, or the flag of any other nation, : sh Lead be insulted by takeing a pilot out of a neutral vs ssel, thereby leaving it in a state of peril—he hoped fer the prevention of any such awful coesequences, that the full particulars and the result of this transaction would be amply recorded.—( Hear, hear ) And now ho would conclude his observations. He would not quarrel with the present amount of force; but if the Government, who had the best means of judging, should come before the Parliament for the means of iticreasing our naval strength and for widening the foundations of our naval power by having a regular supply of ships to be built from time to time, the application should have his cordial support. He would not_ withhold his sanction from the present Esti timates. The second point to which he addressed himself was, the defence of his own Government for not proposing larger estimates; and the third was a statement of grounds on which he imputed to the present Government negli gence and misconduct towards British interests in South America, and particularly on the coast of Mexico, it' it were true that a bombardment took place of San Juan d'Ulloa on the 27th of November; that the port of Vera Cruz was attacked on the sth of December, but that the British squadron did not arrive till the 31st of December, and that in the mean time we had only one ship of war, the Satellite, when San Juan d'Ulloa was otficked, and even when Vera Cruz was attacked there was no larger foree.—( Hear, hear.) He should give his support to the present Estimates, but lie trusted that the time was now come when. on these points it would be felt they had a right to require full explanation, and also on the other point rela tive to the insult to the national flag; and he sincerely trusted that they would have the pleasure of leering that nothing had been left undone by the present Government to give full satisfation to the feelings of the country.—( Cheers.) Mr. L ABOUCH ERE would not prolong the discus sion on this subject to any extent, but as allusion had been made by the Right Hon. Baronet to the conduct of the Board of Admiralty of which Lord Auckland was at the head, and as allusion had been made to that subject by the Noble Lord, the member for Dors,tshire (Lord Ashley) the other night, he would beg to say a few words in explanation. He did not understand that his Hon. Friend the Secretary of the Admiralty, had made it a re proach, that the administration of the Right lion. Baronet had thought fit to reduce the service by 1,000 men, but had merely mentioned that in answer to the loog torrent of abuse against the present Government, which had bees-, so indefatigably got up during the last six Lianas-a (Cheers) —and when, not only through the esd'Atary 'chan nels of the public press, but at public dinners, non. Gen tlemen opposite had given expression to strong expressions, he thought his Hen. Friend was justified in eating, t ha t when it was made a charge asrlinst tlie Government of Lord Melbourne that, tiey had systematically depressed the Navy diminished its strength—he was justified in Zt'ilingVhe attention of the House to this undeniable fact, that toe Estimates presented by the present Government were higher than those presented by the Government of the Right Hon. Baronet.—( Hear.) The Right.'Hon. Be e ronet had said that he had never given encouragement to thd*is attacks, but a great portion of those attacks had 'be'en, encouraged by those who supported him.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) Was there no gentle man of great weight and authority who sat on the other side of the House who had expressed those opinisns ? He would refer to a speech of his Right Hon. Friend, the Member for Pembroke, made at Glasgow, amid any ex pression falling from his lips in reference to this subject wilful misrepresentation• He had said he could not apply to it any other term than wilful misrepresentation—that was the only expression 1w had used.—(oh 1 oh l and laugh ter on the Opposition benr.hes.) He believed that charge w n g.made out, because if an anonymous writer chose to sit down and concoct false stitements, and publish them to the world, while he must have had accurate returns before him, no'other motive but that of an intention to deceive could be artributed to him. When he had accused him of wilful misrepresentation he did not brow who the writer was.— ( Cries of t• Ohl oh I") Mr. MAXWELL—You knew perfectly well.—(Cheers from the Oppositton benches, and cries of " Order, order," on the Ministerial.) Admiral ADASI begged to state that he did not know who that author was. Mr. MAXWELL had the means of knowing that the Gallant Admiral, when he mentioned the term " wilful misrepresentation," knew very well who the author was.— 'Fury checis, and Ministerial cries of " Order, order.") He had no objection to mention his name to the country. Admiral ADAM said it was 'perfectly immaterial whether he knew his name or not. What he had said had been borne nut by the statement of - his Hon. Friend. Mr. C. WOOD said the - 13orrd . OT Admir.atr, through out the whole of what had passed, had been the assailed and not !he assailing p rty, and Hon. Members had not made sufficient allowance for the situation in which they had been placed. Mod:Tate and reasonable men would have been in- t.luced to believe that the Navy had been grossly neglected sod in several of the main articles reduce-I, and the effect of the representation generally was most prejudicial to the character '.tae Government. It had been the great ob ject of the Government to vindicate their conduct and stop these reports. The repreEo l t a ti ens were these-4• the Navy is in a bad state ; it is brought to that state by reductions, and those reductions havo been made by you."—( Hear, hear.) Now he denied the bad state of the Navy—he de nied it had been brought to that state by reduction ; but if those who made the attack, and represented the Navy as in a bad state, did persist in attributing that bad state to the reductions that had been made, let them not impute that reduction to the present Government, but blame those who made the reduction ; and that reduc- Bo:A were made by the Government of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite no one disputed. His Right Hon. Friend near him had completely answered what cer tainly was the inference of the speech of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, that it was in the contemplation of Lord Auckland's Board to reduce the number of men; and what ills Hon. Friend opposite repeated was, that the estimates were in a great measure framed by those who went before them. Now on the points in dispute, the number of men and the amount. of stores, he must be entirely mistaken. lie did not hesitate to say that no such intention was for a mo- mina entertained by Lord Auckland. And in support of this assertion he could refer to Captain Peelle 11, Captain Berkeley, and Sir William Parker.—( Hear, hear.) The ft!ght Hon. Gentleman opposite very naturally might conclude that the number of men on the 31st of December was a fair criterion. He would only refer him to the Hon. Baronet on his left, or the Hon. Baronet on his ri, t ! ht, who would tell him that it was not the CBS,. , in any instance, and that in ail probability the lo, , cst number of men on the ships' books was iu the month of December. Last year, on the 31st December, they were 1,800 men short; A March only 300: they were up to the niunber now; and if in June they were up to 1,800, the average number would have been kept up. With regard to the stores foundation of the calculation was the account of the stor,-5 actually in the yards in December. In the beginning of January it was laid before the Board; and the report of the Storekeeper-General, in 1835, on which the amount was be decided for the ensuing year, was dated on the sth F:bruary. Some of the observations of the Right Ho.. nourable Baronet, as to the distribution of force, re. qnired a slight notice. He first asked what had been done for the protection of the trade from the in creased force entrusted to the hands of the Government. They had mode a considerable increase to all the stations where ships were stationed for the purpose of pro tectinea our commerce. If the Right Hon. B aronet re ferred to the returns from which he had quoted, he would fled that, taking the stations where, generally speaking, it might be said that ships were stationed for protection, the East Indies, the Cape of Good Hope, South America, North America, and the West Indies, on the Ist of De rember, 1835, sixty, six ships were stationed there, and in December, - 1838, eighty-nine ships ; or, if he took the station where, according to him, the greatest disregard and want of protection existed—the North American and West Indien station—he wcuid find that, in, 1835, there were twenty-seven ships; and in 1838 no less than forty. The Right Hon Baronet referred particularly to the pro tection of our trade in Mexico. He said the first alarm at Mexico was on the Ist of March. On the 26th day of March a sloop of war entered Vera Cruz; and there had been one always employed on the coast of Mexico, except so far as to communicate with the Commander at Jamaica. , Orders were given early in the year to the Commander in the West Indict, to afford protection to the British interests in Mexico— A considerable disposable force had been at his command throughout the summer, and if he considered it necessary to send it there, he had the power to do so. When the Right Hon. Gentleman said it was necessary to with draw the force from North America, he was mistaken Commodore Douglas appeared there with a squadron of ten ships of war. Four left frOm England direct—two were already in the West Indies—three were dis posed between Bermuda and the West Indies, and the Admiral's ship left North America in the beginning of August for other lessons than those stated. The only ether subject to which the Right Hon. Gentleman alluded vies with regard to time, In the tone and temper with which be dealt with that subject, there was no member of the Government who did not concur. He agreed that the whole transaction ought to be brought before the House, but in the present state of affairs it would not be prudent to call for their production. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Pembroke had alluded to the state of the dockyards. From the year 1834 till the increase was made in 1837. the yards were working with a reduced number, but during the present spring three ships of the line would be launched.—( Hear ) He believed the system recommended by Lord Auckland, of keeping the ships in an advanced state I.f completion oa the slips, was a far better system than that of launching them. It was the system pursued by the French and they lasted for a much long , r time.—(Hear, hear.) The -Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Pembroke, the eother night doubted the accuracy of his ( Mr. Wood's) assertions as:to 'site building of American vessels. From the report of the Secretary of the American Navy, it appeared they had four ships of the line on the stocks, and eleven contracted to be delivered in 1841. In 1822, they had one ship ready for leunehing, two on the s'ocks partly finished, and two frames re ovided. Since 1822, one ship only had been launched.—(Hear, hear.) The ships ready for launching seventeen years ago, still remained on the stocks, and the frames erected seventeen years ago were kill on the stocks. The Right lion. Baronet the Member for Stamford had made some allusion to the quantity of stores which were in the 'dockyards under Lord Melville. The Right Hon. Baronet would be glad to hear that the stores were in as good a state as then. - The stores of timber were rather lower, but the stores of fixtures were considerably increased; the store of tanks was considerably higher ; of hemp the stock was higher than in 1830—not quite so high as in 1834; the stock of cables, &c., was higher than in 1834 ; the stock of 'canvass was not so high, but there were many contracts' nut. He did not recollect that he had any other point to brine under the notice of the Committee, or any observations of the Hon. Gentleman opposite to answer. With tha, ke to the Committee for their kindness, he would relieve them for the present. Lord ASHLEY wished to explain. He would not detain the Committee more than a few moments. He had stated that when he left the Board of the Admiralty, the amount of stores was greater than when he joined it. Captain PECHELL did net thinkahat the Hon. Gen tlemen opposite had discussed the question with a view to the honour of the service —(Cheers, and cries of " Oh") —the debete throughout had been conducted upon party principles.--( Cheers.) The Right Honourable Secretary for the Admiralty had most successfully, and at one fell swoop, demolished the preposterous and exaggerated state ments which 1.2 been so industriously circulated upon that point.--(Cheers.) He could not withhold his support from our present Naval rulers, for he believed the i y e w d e i r f e . pursuing a better plats than their predecessors. He I subject feted from them in many things—especiallsvhaotn there were many grievances under which the of manning the Navy, and he considered professionam onstrous humbug ( liver, from Sir E. Codrington. ) It was frighten with the idea that was any dancer to our shoes from t laboured. cl,eval de baltaile of the Right Hon. Member for Stem sae i Russian :It s s i h a a n d fi n c e e a t. rly T se h r a v t e d ß i u ts ss p ia u n rp purpose to t h adb een tmheadpeeotphl the place, sorry madenot t oh his see presence in his. place. (Sir (Sir G. Stam ford, Clerk w h h e o h m , f 4, He preposterous; no one (Captain P. h ) ien w hw a i s ass glad to see him present, for he had a high respect for him, as lie was the Lord of the Admiralty who sigced his commission. --( Laughter-) Was the lion. Baronet prepared to place 27 sail of the line in the Channel ? lie said that we would have swarms of privateers he a ar t i h t i f ng would ever take place, and he did not e h xp e ß c i ht Honourrotal the Right i c n ou t ld h'' for Ch a Honourable Baronet. been e done g by Sir ae Baronet had boasted of what had n George Cock twhich carried the t w su t a o e s h to Lis burn, in equipping the . momentnnel , bufta fancy y e ta t merely en flute as it art" Lis bon, but they were d was called. were not t all rtsan o a a to be compared They were mere transports to the fitting out of the Powerful by Capt. Napi er • It was tand four years cruise, was going to a sta tionfitting out for a no dockyards, and was fitted in where there e perfectwer manner for such a serviceolltH. a complete and the Right lion. Baronet the Member for quite agreed with to the coast blockade. proved with respect of .. . • He ap • hment snips in ordinary and proved of the establishment . he much was te inhaving a large quan titythought there was yards ; of course he exceptedtimber. of stores in the bought there was a aed hemp. but be t considerable quantity of sails loss in having a large et _ (Sir James ying idle. The Right Ho , Baron for abolielilng Graham)that had de served well of the country for incubus on (Hear)—and for este lishig the Navy, the Naval 130 unequalled ' ships in the world,-_ system of constructinget to the manning of the Nav he ( Hear.) With r espect : I ,__ ts _ rie . i a the opinions of Ca y' t • (Captain Peehell) le Im 't most important that the Gov ') al" Berkeley, and thought 1 , ern - steer) at present • • merit should alter the S3' . existing, and establish one more efficient. The pension system ought that regulation done away • also to be changed, and who had acquired with which prevented seamene from resenterinees tahepension by twenty years' servieforfeiting his pension. H Navy, unless upon condition of widows —( ear.) The sum allowed for pensions, to and orphans, d nate: to th 14,0001. a year, Was q""e ;n a d ' l c i l e misted thethat numerous cases which required relief; 5 0001. or 6 the amount would be increased by at least , •000/.—( Hear. ) Now one word as to the Express packet.toiab f He thought it was the duty of the .Government Y e ore the House, as soon as possible, every ; information Croke they could obtain as to the conduct of Lieutenant --an officer to whose Peehell) could • courage and honour be (Captain testify— as to whether he had made any remonstrance or protest rior force—a credit deeply involv upon yielding to a supe dthe - - iwl the honour of the service an —( Hear, le . ) Captain (SO RDON observed, that he would not follow the example of the Secretary to the Admiralty in hi! , first speech on this debate, in derAing in accusations against Whig Governments and Tory Governments.—( Hear, hear - ) But this be would say, that preceding Govern ments had been compelled to make great reduction , ,, where as the present Mrnistry had experienced no opposition on the Naval Estimates.—( Hear, hear.) The error of the present administration of naval affair's was, in their disposi tion of the naval force which they did possess.—( Hear, heir.) For a long series of years it had been the naval policy of this country to keep a certain number of ships of war in time of peace constantly in readiness for any service that might be required, and that was a wise policy.—( Hear, hear.) No serious apprehensions could be entertained as to immediate agg!essions from the Baltic.—( Hear, hear, hear.) But in 1826, let it be recollected that when a naval force was required to be sent to Lisbon, it was the boast of Mr. Canning that in one week the whole 11!_et was on its passage.--( Hear.) That was effected by having a eertain number of men-of-war always in readiness—and he (Capt. Gordon) feared that not one single m m,of war could now be got ready for service in the same period.—( Hear.) An experimental squadron vas sent out in 1836 under Sir Charles Paget's command, consisting of the 11:1-cules, the Minden, the Bellerophon, the Pembroke, :Ind the Vanguard. The Hercules sailed with seven teen on board, who could take the lead, and only double that number who could take thc.. Hear. hear, hear.) The Minden never could get beyeud Plymouth Sound. The Vanguard and the Bellerophon, both happened on the same day to ly:corne dis•tbled ; so that of the whole the Pembroke alone was fit for service.—( Hear.) With re . spect to the manning of the ships, difference of opinion might naturally be entertained aci to the home station ships ; but this (Cartain Gordon) would contend, that no ship of war should leave this country for a foreign sta tion without being fully manned, as well as being fully equipped, for every emergency that might arise.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Much had been said of manning ships in time of peace. One great cause of complaint was the great change in the coasting trade; now it was a great satisfaction to him to hear from his lion. Friend opposite that the coasting trade had increased, and be was happy to say that it was likely to increase if steam vessels were increased also. According to the statement cf the Honourable Member opposite, almost the whole of the costing trade was now carried on by steam-vessels. He could not but remark on the impolicy of giving men in the Navy pensions after 21 years' service. In his opinion those pensions ought to be given at a much shorter date.—( Hear, hear). What man, he would ask, would enter the service under such conditions ?--( Hear, hear.) The coast-guard had been alluded to, and also the ordinary ; lie would pass that by, as the observations upon that subject had been so excellently dealt with by other lion. Members.—( Hear, hear.) A good deal had been said on the subject of building ships. Now upon that point he feat himself called upon to agree with the observations of the lion. Member, in his remarks as to the deficiency of steam-vessels. He trusted that the Admiralty would turn their attention to the subject of turning merchant steam vessels into men-of-war. In his opinion a great deal of good might be effected by turning small 74-gun ships into powerful frigates.— ( Hoar, hear.) Much had been said en pamphlets that had been written. They had been stated to come forth from Tories. Now, what was the real fact ? Why, no lion. Member on either side of the House could state that those pamphlets had been writ ten from factious motives. What were those pamphlets ? One had been written by a Flag Officer, who had been se . eerily handled by the Gallr.tit Admiral opposite, in hia opinion totally without foundation, for he was inclined to i e ve every statement that had been put forth. Who wi! e the eflic, rs that had so written on this subject? Could they be accused of Toryism ? Certainly not. WaS Captain Napier a Tory ?—( Hear, hear.) Was Captain Marryat a Tory? or was Captain Berkeley a Tory? and last, though not least, was Captain Craufurd a Tory ? ( Hear, hear.) Then the only question that remained was whether Sir John Barrow was a Tory ?—( Hear, hear.) Having stated thus mull, he would leave it to the Co.n mittee to say whether there had been any Tory or factious opposition put forward to the present proceedings ? (Hear, hear.) In conclusion, he could only say that be regretted that the Hon. Member opposite had not come down with a better argument for the vote be in tended to give. Mr. ELLIOT was surprised at the course that had been taken in the present debate. It was said that this was a party question ; be denied it, and he could not but regret the smooch that had been made by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, at Glasgow. There was a great difference between the present oppositio❑ and the late op position—the laie opposition hsd opposed the measure from Liberal principles, but the present opposition was from a far different motive. It was said that the pay of men of war was exceedingly small compared with the pay of men no board a merchantman ; that might be- the case in short voyages, but in long ones it would be found that the men on board a man-of-war had the advantage, besides having pensions and bounties. With regard to the question of short manning, it had been stated by an Hon. - Member that men would not enter the Navy in consequence of the ships being under-manned. He did riot profess to be a judge whether 160 or 180 men were the proper compbment for the crew of a jackass frigate, but if any man entered into . the merchant service under the idea that he would have less labour than on board a jackass frigate, he would find himself egregiously mis taken. A merchant ship of 700 tons carrying 1,000 t , :ris of cargo, had 35 men, and all hands were obliged to be turned ty to do work ht all times. Comparisons had been made with the present state of the Navy, to what it had been some years ago, but the men were now more ' advantageously ei.-cumstanced in many respects, both as regards pay and punishments ; punishments could for , merly be inflicted at the discretion of the Captains, but now they were subjected to several restrictions. The deserip ' tion of men in the Navy it had been said were worse now than they were Wmerly, lie would read them a decrip tion of the crew of the Caledonia in 1811:,—(Th - e :Gentleman here' eead the 11,,t,bY - which it appeared that her crew contained several ftreinet's in it; and in addition to able seamen that there entered into the' composition or it a curious collection of tailors, hair-dressers:, weavers, wheelwrights, soap-boilers, pattern makers, sawyers, masons. butchers, clerks, wool-coinhers, " and," con eluded the Hen. Gentleman, "thirteen I'm sure I don't know what."—( A laugh.) What would be said, he would ask, bad such a list as this been produced as the crew of a ship scut out by the present Government to the Gulph of Mexico ? Sir JAMES GRAHAM considered it incumbent to ad dress the Committee after the speech of the Hon. Gentle man whe had just sat down, who had talked of tailors and sawyers, and attempted to treat the subject with ridi cule, but lie would rather be the object of attack of the Hon. Gentleman than be capable of entertaining the feel ing which had induced the Hon. Gentleman to make the observations ke had done, and treat the subject in such a manner. Tire speech of his from which the Hon. Gentle man had quoted, was in answer to the attacks made on him on this subject in the newspapers connected with the Government, the statements of which had been brought forward the day before in the Town Coun cil at Glasgow, during the debate which took place in that body, as to the propriety of presenting him with the freedom of that body ; it had been necessary to defend himself from these attacks, and he would ask how he could have done so more cautiously ? he had asserted nothing respecting the present state of the Navy because he had then no means of testing the accuracy ot any state me, to that might be made, but he bad asserted that the administration cf Lord Melbourne was not the same as the adrr inistration of Lord Grey, and, when he considered the small remnant of Lord Grey's Cabinet that remained in Lord Melbourne's Cabinet—( Hear, hear)—a remnant growing small by degrees, and " beautifully less"—a rem nant which had even grown less since the commencement of the present Session, and which would he thought, possi bly, may probably, be still further reduced before the ter mination of it, he would net shrink from repeating that assertion ; but he thought that this was too high and im portant a subject to be made the arena of party attacks (1-/ear, beer, hear) but there were two points from which her Majesty's Government had deviated from the policy pursued by him, first with regard to the demon stration ships, the facts would prove that although the pre sent land roleit be superior to him in point of economy, yet it was inferior in promptness and efficiency. The letter of Captain Napier which had not been noticed by Sir John Barrow, aryl for which the author had been appointed to the command of a ship, says, in answer to a speech on this subject, that the Rusell demonstration ship in 1835, had been got ready for sea in three weeks. Now, let the House compare that with the ca:;e of the Ganges, which took three months to get ready for sea. Again, Captain Napier's own ship the Powerful, had been commissioned three months ago, and was only just now able to proceed from Sheerness to Portsmouth, with 200 men short of her crew. Again, he would call the attention of the House to the case of the Impregnable. The Malabar had re turned from Canada with her fulrcomplement of marines, officers, and seamen. Her Majesty's Government, desirous to fit out the Impregnable with the least possible delay, had turned the whole of the crew of the Malabar over to her more than a month ago, and she had not yet left Plymouth Sound, and yet the Russell had been got ready in three weeks. The experiment bad b-en tried three times, and here again he would repeat that the Administration of Lord Melbourne was not the Administration of Lord Grey. Again, upon the subject of launching, great mistakes had been committed by her Majesty's Ministers. During the three and a half years of his naval administration ho had launched seven ships of the line, and left three ready for launching, two of which he supposed were those that were about to be launched. He found no keels bad been laid down, and had laid down five—stone had been laid down since. Many of the ships in ordinary, when he left the Ad miralty, had required large repairs ; as the duration of aship was tested by its age and its repairs, many ships which were at that time in Class A., might new, perhaps, be in Class C., and be not worth more than two years' purchase, in consequence of their having received the necessary re pairs, and he beseeched her Majesty's Government, not to delay a single day in making arrangements on this subject. With regard to the reductions that had been made in the Dock-yards, there was no opportunity of testing its effects, owing to the addition which had taken place in the day's labour ; but although her Majesty's Government had taken additional labour, they had undertaken more than they ceuld accomplish. The Hon. Gentlemen had talked of the advantage of leaving ships under cover with out launching them. He believed that that experiment had succeeded, but then it behoved the Government to make new ships, in order to enable them to continue building new ships. At present they halted between two opinions; they k e p t the ships full, and would not task for more, so that it was impossible that ship-building could go on. In 1835 matters were not in the same position as at present —the state of their foreign relations was not such as to command so large a vote as in the present year. He ( Sir J. Grahlm) had in 1836 encountered the unpopularity of voting in favour of the increased estimates, conceiving that the reduction proposed by l the Hon. Member was at the period inexpedien t.—( iaro' hear.) He had heard no ans wer given to the speech f his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth, as to the present distribution of tl. e f o rce. If 11,,•_.:•.-J was eo f. 4 pre,aetiston of foreign aggressiuu why wa s it steces sary to have el even sail of the fine in the :Mediterranean—( Hear, hear)—or why were t!tey to have their shcres completely unprotected as they et present were? Why had they not a force on the American coast, where warlike operations had been going on for tome time past ?—( Hear, hear.) When the French expedition arrived at San Juan D'Ulloa, tho Eng lish vessels of war on that station had, actuallyconscious of its weakness, gone to Jamaica for the purpose of communi cating with the Admiral. He would b© glad to bear what defence her Majesty's Government had to offer for the total neglect of British interests in Mexico which that movement exhibited ? If there was a formidable B t .:ash squadron at Vera Cruz he was satisfied that the pi:lt would never have been taken cut of the Express packet.— (Cheers ) If any doubt existed as to the conduct of Lieut. Croke (who was said to be a gallant officer), why should he not be put on his trial, end then the whole facts of the case would come before the public and the blame would be placed upon the_rif,, , ht parties ? He re gretted having trespassed so long upon the time of the Committee, but he felt that so many attacks had been been made upon the Adminiqra.ion with which he was connected, that he could not remain silent on the present occasion —( Hear, hem-. ) Lord PALMERSTON contended that the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member fat Psmworth, had completely exonerated the Government from any neglect of British interests of Mexico. The Noble Lord, after alluding to the circumstpnces which had oeclsioned the blockade of Mexico by a French force, observed that her Majesty's Government could not t:isp a t e th e r i g ht o f th e renteh Government to hive recourse to a blockade, in order W obtain a compliance with their demands for reparation. All thst was necessary on their part was to see that the British interests were protected, and a sufficient Naval force wa s rent for that purpose. The French Govern ment, finding that Mexico refused a compliance with its demands, sent out a larger force, in order to bike more active measures. When that - intention was intimated to the British Government an adequate force was sent out far them, but not with the intention of offsring any hostile opposition to the French; and when the R'gsht Honourable Baronet said that the British squadron arrived too late, he must have argued upon the assumption that the squadron went there to oppose the French force, which it was not intended to do. They had received the most satisfactory assurances from the French Govern ment that they had no intention to take permanent posses sion of the citadel or any portion of the Mexican coast, and it would have been perfectly unjustifiable on their parts to attempt any ewgressive measures under such circumstances. It had been stated that, from the accidental delay in the arrival of their squadron, British interests had suffered. He believed that was not a fact. One would suppose that the town had been attacked and pill govt by a hostile army, but the fact was that the crews of the French vessels had merely landed, rendered the guns of the fort useless, and then re-embarked. It was said also that there was no authorized negotiator at Vera Cruz *0 endeavour to effect an arrangement between the Mexican and the French Governments; but 'Mr. Paken ham, who had come home on leave of absene, returned on the breaking out of hostilities, and he, in conjunction with Mr. Ashburnharu, had exerted themselves most effi ciently, and he believed there was every prospect of a speedy and satisfactory arrangement.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to the distribution of their Naval force, it would be found on inquiry that they had had a large disposable ft.ree at their command. The Gallant Officer who had spoken in a previous part of the evening had asserted that the course of their foreign policy va.s such, that they could not with their present force carry it into effect ; and he had added that if any ad dition was proposed to their present establishment, it should have his support. They (the Government) thought the present means of defence wassufficient, but if an addi tion should be required they should be happy to avail them selves of the services of the Gallant Officer opposite. Two objects of a navel force were the defence of our own shores, and the protection of British commerce in foreign countries. Bearing this principle in view he would refer to the observation of the Right Hon. Baronet (the Nlembir for Tamworth), who had said that it would be bettor to have eight, or ten, or eleven guardships, as before, than to have part of our force on some foreign station as now. However, he (Lord P.) thought the present method- batter, because while they had a squadron in the Mediterranean, or in other stations, within a convenient distance of home, the men and officers were practically instructed and trained in the various duties of their profession, much more effici ently than if they were confined in their ships in our own ports from year to year.—( Hear, hear.) He was quite sure that if they were to keep their ships at home, the Hon. Baronet opposite would be the very first to say, ,‘ Why do you put us to the expense of maintain ing so many useless ships every year? Surely it would be better to have them on some foreign station, where the crews might be exercised, thee to have them rotting in our ports at horne."— ( Hear.) If lie were asked why we had such a force in the Mediterranean, he would reply that we had always important stakes in those countries that bordered that station, as any person who would look at the map of Europe might see, end where it was necessary that England shonld exercise a moral duty ; in fact we always had an effec tive squadron in the Mediterranean. In the year 1834 the Mediterranean squadron was 8 sail of the line ; in 1835, it was 6 ; in 1836, it was 9 ; in 1337, 7; in 1838. 9 ; in deed he was afraid that we hardly had a force large enough there now. But it had been said that if we were at war, the Mediterranean fleet would be of no use ; he would ask where else it would be more wonting ? If we went to war with Russia, as many Hon. Gentlemen apprehended (but he did not apprehend), the very first thing we should do, would be to send a strong fleet into the Mediterranean sea. ) But if we should go to war with Russia, be admitted that we should equip a larger force for the Me diterranean to cope with the 28 sail of the line which Rus s:a could bring into the sea; but he would repeat there was no likelihood of a rupture with Russia. Nor was there anything in our relations to justify such apprehensions. ! Every thing on both sides tended to show a strong desire for mutual peace and friendship. If any emergency, however, should arise, be- had no doubt that Parliament- would sanction any increaso .of force which the Government mi ght feel it expedient to demand. __As for the squadron of a frigate and two sloops on the coast of Spain he would repeat that they mere scarcely more ex pensive there than elsewhere. However, in this noticn he was sure that those who prayed for the success of Don Carlos would not go along with him ( Lord Palmerston) who desired the success of Queen Isabella and her Government. —( Laughter and hear.) He believed our rumerous com mercial interests in Spain, and the maintenance of the ba lance of power, required all the naval farce that we now had there. He had reason to knave that it had done very considerable service to the cause of the Queen and Con stitution.--( Laughter and hear.) As for the 100 Marines employed there, we could have them home as soon as the ships could receive them.—(Laughter and hear.) No doubt the Government had acted judiciously in not having as yet called upon the House to sanction the equipment of a large number of ships. He contended that British in terests had been nowbeve neglected, and that from what ever quarter ;Applications had been made for protecion that protection had been granted.—( Hear, hear.) Sir G. CLERK was glad that the Noble Lord had met the question on the ground on which it ought to rest. He believed that was unfortunately too true. He wished to call the attention of the House back to the charge brought against the Government by the Right lion. Baronet the Member for Tamworth, and to which no satisfactory answer bad been given, viz., the delay that had been al lowed to take place before any force was sent out to Vera Cruz. It was publicly announced and notorious to the Government here, that the French were about to send out an expedition, and that they intended to take Vera Cruz immediately on their arrival. The French squadron sailed on the 13th of September, and yet no reinforcement was sent out to Sir Chas. Paget until the end of October. He did not wish to enter into a discussion upon the out rage that bad been committed on the British flag, but he hoped it would appear that the Noble Lord the Secretary , for Foreign affairs had availed himself of the earliest op portunity of making some communication to the Am bassador at Paris, although he was afraid there was some considerable delay either in the communication from the Government with Lord Granville, or in Lord Granville's communication with the French Government. Mr. CORRY thought, whatever naval deficiency might exist, it was not to be attributed so much' to the Board of Admiralty as to the mistaken system of economy. The state of the Navy was insufficient to defend the interests of this great empire; it was insufficient either for peace or war. He was one of those who, in forming an esti mate, did not think expense ought to be the first consider tion, but efficiency. Lord SANDON would appeal to any one connected with a commercial community, whether the protection afforded to trade were sufficient. The petition that would be presented to the House on Thursday next, would afford a better test of the opinions of commercial men than any thing be could say. Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not wish to trespass on the attention of the Committee, but the second speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, made it incumbent on him to say a few words. With respect to the question just raised by the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool, namely, the protection of the commercial inter ests of this country in the Gulf of Mexico, he did not state there bad been remonstrances against the state of the block ade.—( Hear, hear.) The point which the Noble Lord spoke to was especially one on which the Hon. Baronet had made some statements. The Hon. Baronet complained that there was not a sufficient force in the Gulf of Mexico, after the capture of St. Juan d'Ulloa. With respect to the blockade and capture, was it the duty of the Mi nisters of this country to enter into liabilities with France to prevent by force that capture ?—( Hear, hear.) The question was whether our commercial interests would be injured during the attack upon San Juan D'Ulloa. No doubt the persons and property of the English were then in danger; nothing, however, took place—no danger was incurred, and it was not necessary thatthere should be a force there for this protection. The Right Honourable Bart. had stated—taking advantage of that which was almost usual—that the Agent, the Consul, who was there pro tecting British interests, was also the Consul for France. It was true that it was so, but it was a very usual o ccurrence, when the Consul of one country should have occasion to leave his duties to entrust them to a friendly power, it was so in this case, and he believed that the duties conld not have been placed in better hands. Then as to the insult which had been offered to our flag, the Hon. Baronet said that we ought not to wait for facts—he said we should not wait to hear the real facts of the case, but insisted that they should at once have an explanation, without the facts of the case being known.-,-(Cheers.) Another point which tht Honourable Baronet found fault with was the large force we bad in the Mediterranean, but it was to be remembered that there were two powers, who both had large fleets, Turkey and the Pacha of Egypt. And it was most important that England should take caro there should be no collision between the two fleets—he believed that there was no immediate danger of that kind, but still he thought it was necessary to keep several line of battle ships in the Sea. He did not recollect there was any other point to which it was necessary for him to advert. He trusted that the vote would be allowed to pass. Mr. PLUMPTRE, after alluding to Capt. Napier's EVINING EDITION letter, said that in his opinion the shores . of let is country were left too much rtnproteef ted.. It was unbecoming such a great nation that our merchants should be left without protection, and that *our shores should be left without • any one to take cam de e ' -them. He felt that more perhaps than any other Mereber t present, because he represented the eastern part of Kent . which most probably would be the first attacked. —( Loutl laughter.) He must protest against the vote as an insuf- I ficient one, and he thought that more ships should be im mediately put into commission. Mr. HUME wished to make a few observations upon smallestte that extraordinary debate.—(Laughter.) There seem e d Itobe a race of extravagance on both sides of th e H ouse, ' not o(nLdaeurgthhteer.) a •Tal the Hon. Gentleman who had spoken last wa s t h e wors e s et . the whole lot with the exception of his H on. Friend tties Membmerefroerßeitrs were mingh am. believed the; the ha alarm—not uno l er half the alarm—under which his Hon. Friend laboured. Where was the money to come from by which such expense was to be paid, pressed as this country was by taxation. The House, be was sure, was not acting in the way in which the people expected them. This country was too fond of meddling with every body's business:but its own. He was sorry that the Government should have been led into unnecessary expenses. How- i ever, on the Report he would express his sentiments more fully than he could at that latehour—past I2—with respect 4 to the extravagances into which the Government had been seduce:C. He bad heard no reason why our establishments 1 . pow should he greater than they were ten years back. Sir J RAE RE ID said the merchants of this country were higiq dissatisfied with the want of p rotection which they experienced from the naval administration ; our trade was i n conseque nce much injured, several ships had re turned from Mexico, with their cargoes on board. Mr. W 0 L VER L i.' Y ATTWOOD wished particu larly to advert to one point, on which he believed depended, in a great measure, the :efficiency of theNiavy_ he meant the condition of lb.' shipwrights in her Ma jesty's dock-yards—who were wens, off than the ship wrights in the merchants dock-yards. One thing these discussions on naval matters had rendered quite plain that no administration would be able here after, in this country, if when any emergency arose, there was not a naval force adequate to meet it, to ex cuse themselves by referring to the restrictions of eco nomy.—( Hear.) Mr. WA RBURTON expressed his astonishment that from the tone of these discussions there would seem to be no desire fur the blessings of peace—no wish to avoid the recurrence of those heavy taxes which were inflicted on the people of this country. Captain BOLDER() adverted to the unfair treatment of the Marines, who were compelled to count two years ashore for one afloat, towards, a pension, and to pay 255. for every great-coat they had, whereas every soldier in the army had a great coat once in two or three years. Sir T. TRO ÜBRIDGE said that the regulation with respect to great-coats was made before he was born.— ( Hear, and laughter.) The resolution wee then agreed to. After a few observations from . Mr. HUME, a vote for wages of 1,080,089/. was then agreed to. Also, a vwe for victuals, of 146,6251., was agreed to. The House then resumed. Resolutions to be reported to-morrow. IRISH OUTRAGES. On the motion of Mr. LEFROY, the adjourned debate on the Irish outrages was resumed. Mr. LEFROY was exceedingly sorry at the present late hour to trespass upon the attention of the House ; but cansidering the situation in which he stood he felt bound to do so. He would not now go into the general subject of the debate es the i details were nearly exhausted, but he felt bound to call back 1 the attention of the House to the charges made by the i Hon. Member fer Dublin, against a Noble Lord who had large possessions in the county of Longford. He regretted that the lion. Member for Dublin was not in his place, because he had given notice to him that it was his in- !, tention to call in question the statements the he had made, and he did so upon the evidence which had Leen given before the Committee upon Fictitious Votes. The Learned Member then read the evidence of I Lord Lorton's agent before the Fictitious Votes' Corn- mittee, from which it appeared that Lard Lorton, in con sequence of the estate being over - peopled , had been corn_ k pelted to rend away several families, but to each person ,thus sent away a sum of money had been given ny way of re- muneration, with which all seemed perfectly satisfied. There • was but one Protestant introduced upon the estate, he was named Rock, and had been located there, to introduce the cultivation of fl.:x ; before he had been there a month he was murdered, and the improvements were stopped. The 1 House should understand that this property was not a por tion of Lord Lorton's hereditary estate, therefore he was t not responsible far the previous letting—it was natural he f should be desirous to clear his estate of bad character h s e , t rile ' t i noon-day, and afterwards scoffed at the ividow c2t heir) mr ! such as those who had committed this murd er dered man when she sought assistance- - ( He ar , him to —but every one had means given to and there was nothing in Lord Lorton's conduct to ex- . emigrate or seek his living in some otheer why? ,' tenuate the outrages. He would ask the Noble Lord op. posite, who seemed to agree in opinion with Mr. DrWth mond whether their new edition of Captain Rock's code —(oh, oh 1 from the Ministerial benches. answered by cheers from the Opposition)—prohibited the landlords cf . Ireland from making any improvements in their property, . on pain of being held responsible for every outrage which might be committed. He would appeal to the Ho nourable Member for Roscommon whether a more be nevolent landlord was to be found than Lord Lorton. There was no instance of his having advertised his lands 1 . to let them at a rack-rent. There were at least 300 of : the constituency of the county of Roscommon on Lie estate—of these five-sixths were Roman_ Catholics, and there was no instance of one of them having voted con- .:; trary to his wishes.—(Ministerial cheers.) He under- i stood that cheer, but he thought it was better that these tenants should vote at the wish of a i.,,:•nevolent land lord than at the dictation of a domineering priesthood. —(Tory cheers.) Lord Lorton bad a large nuzOber of ; dispensaries and other charitable establishments on his pro- perty, and employed on the average 300 labourers c on - sternly, expending between 5,0001. and 6,0001. a year ol'i - the improvement of his estates.—( Hear, hear.) Was that : a man who would treat hisitenantry with harshness or -in- justice? The fact was that he was proverbial for his at- tention to the wants and comforts of his tenants. With t respect to the particular case before the House, it was plain, even from the Honourable and Learned Gentleman' s ' statement that no imputation rested upon Lord Lorton. i He would read to the House the statement of an adve rse newspaper, which would establish that point. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then read an extract from the paper, detailing the facts which have been already alluded to in the debate on this subject. He concluded that the landlord was perfectly justified in obtaining possession of the house after an agreement had been signed to deliver it up. .The Learned Sergeant then referred to the manner iti which the lion. and Learned Member for Dun° stated the caw. Ile had sated that there was a lease hen! by t h e i widow Murphy, of which forty years were yet urn, xVited• Now there was not a word of that kind—neither that s.'le was required to give up the lease, and refused to do so— , nor that the landlord took a party to tear down the twine. o , Now the landlord was not there at all; but the 1 agent was, end the house certainly was pulled down. The lion. and Learned Member had also stated, " that the son at last signed a paper, on the assurance that his mother should be left in the house." Now the son signed the paper iii the first instance, and without any such assu- I ranee. As for the counsel, whose speech the Hon. and il Learned Member read, the counsel merely spoke accord- i ing to his instructions. Make t he most of the C 2,5 0--•it I was all attributable to the blunder of an agent, who had made an agreement for the surrender of the house, instead of for giving up the lease, or he migh t afterwards had brought his action of ejectment. Ho (Mr. Lefroy) admitted that be had not yet received from 1 Ireland the full evidence which he expected, and which I would enable him completely to refute the charge of cruelty, oppression, and injustice thus brought by at l e Hon. and L arned Member for Dublin against Lord I.„_ y ton. He therefore trusted the House would suspend their I judgment for a little time.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. FRENCH was not in the habit of exchaneine even 1 kinderhilandlord._-( o s d d io u r t ,ylm. _at man, or state, Ho et aar, more t h h e a a t r . upright, r i b Hg e he l t i e, therefore there did we o,uol rd n ea o hw t a ar exist iittati a ,ti, the the courtesy of a salute with Lord Lorton. B ut h e f e l t i t I the evidence expected by the Learned Sergeant. But be must at the same time assert, that a vast portion of the out rages which disgraced Ireland, sprung not from the nature of the peasantry—than whom a more kindly or genial race did not exist—but from the oppression they suffered at the hands of their landlords, the physical wretchedness of their condition, and the little sympathy that had hitherto been extended to them from the autho rities of the land. Hence the wrecklessncss and the dis • quietude of the Irish peasants. So far from the Irish peasant being savage, he was convinced the English la bourer would not have undergone half the sufferings and deprivations which the Irish had without exhibiting feel ings of a more turbulent and ferocious disposition. _ Colonel VERNER, after alluding to the results of several trials in Ireland, asked what justice eou e hd t. Protes tantset- expect when Attorney-General auth e o r r e rs d b enabled to ting aside of jurors, whereby prisortiesra pt ? Ho then ing the Judges of the land in e that the Ribbon-. entered into several details to prov regularly trained. pack juries, and the Lord Lieutena:ootesnmewtioned the hold. men went out with arms, and wderteo dissolve itself there When the Orange Society was asks the fact ? There was - be countenanced ; but what was. nen' members were • in Ireland whose most promi s Society was a clear understanding that nopolitical society should upon its ruins immediately rose Society was dissolved ; but fi t ste taken by the Noble ' the Precursor Society, and the rs . .p . . those selected by the Government. for . promotion. That the leader of that Society. The Orangemen were his tabl e Lord th e Secretary for Ireland was ~o invite and entertain at dec w ere cajoled into disuniting themselves upon i false Petences hear.)lreland had been mos t shamefully governed. M r. Duff, who was a chi ef eved—tierY .—( Hear, constable, advised the Magistrates to shoot the pe op l e, by planting a gun, and making a lane through the woMen and children assembled around an orang e arch. He was of course promoted, he was made a stipendiary Magistrate, and was actually sent down upon two occasions in July to insult the people Whom he wished to have slaughtered. Sir C. STYLES rose at two o'clock, and at five mi nutes past, An HON. MEMBER mo ved the House be counted: there .t being only 37 Members p resent, they adjourned. \ ie The Bright o n Gazette says — " We hear th a t an p elo emen t hie taken place from thi s t own , and that it has been followed by a h os tile meeting in the n e i g hb our h ood of London. As the particulars have not yet got into the papers, we will not add to the distress of the parties by mentioning, names." LEICESTER, MARCH 2.—The state 0 1 the country becomes every day more fearfully and momentously interesting. The deep-seated discontent which no w S i, extensively prevails arises not merely from the deprivation of political rights, but from the dreadful practical results of which that deprivation has led. —Leicestershire Mercury.