The Sun. — London, England, 1839-05-03 00:00:00

:.-: G CrilT .1 f ) NATIONAL CON VEN TION. The, National Csnvention met yesterday, Mr. SA-marr in the Chair. NEW DELEGATE. Jr. Vincent introduced Mr. Convcr as Deleg:te from Troubridgl, elected at a public mr.eting, composed of up wards of 15,000 persons. Mr. CON Y&R accordingly took his seat, having first pre sented his credentials. COF.RESPONDENCIE. ' After reading the minutes, the Secretary proceeded to read letters from— Kettering, accompanied by four sheets of signatures to nat'oall petition. On , ^ from Detiborough, containing 131 names ; two from Rothewell, containing 250 sigr,a tures ; one from Kettering, containing 32 names additional to those already sent. From Cirencester, with 549 additional names to the petition. They would have sent rent before this, but that the expenses of agitation there were very heavy, and were borne by a few only ; they would, however, shortly make a remittance. From Du r. tries, accompanying additional signatures. From Hacia•k, inclosing resolutions passed at a meeting there to the efsct— That the General Convention of the Working Classes have, by the talent, energy, and determination they have evinced since their sitting in London, entitled themselves to the confidence of the people. T . yat as long as they continue to conduct th emse l ves i n the ,same wise, firm, and temperate mariner, this Associa tion express their determination to support them in any ulterior measures they may think requisite to secure the adO'ption of the People's Charter as the law of the land. 'That the members of this Association resolve to perse vere in doing all in their power to arouse, enlighten, and organise the friends of liberty until the Charter becomes the law of the land. That a county meeting be held in Jedburgh on the 18th of May, and that one or two Delegates do attend the same, and requesting particularly that Mr. Frost and Mr. Low rey should be the persons, as they were to be in the North of England about that time. The letter stated that May 18, was designed as being a border holiday, and all the mills being stopped, would y e ean opportunity to large numbers to be p resen t. I t ' o gave as a r eason f or th e requ i re d atten d ance o f t h e legates, that the country was mostly under the influence of the Buccleuch and Minto families, and consequently the people would not attend, unless a meeting, to be ad dressed only by local speakers. With this letter were 455 additional signatures from Hawick, 694 from Jed burgh, and 201 from Earlston to the National Petition. .i From Gloucester, regretting that the Chartist agita tion was behind in that place. From Birmingham to Mr. Collins, stating that the effect of tlre late disunion, and breaking up of the coancil had back warded the glorious cause of the people, declaring the Mal cation of Mr. Salt fruit) the Convention, contrary to his for mer expressed opinions. The writer never had an opinion as to Messrs Douglas, Edmonds, or Mur.tz, going on steadily for Universal Suffrage ; but he was surprised at Messrs. 141adley and Salt giving up supporting that cause. It described 1 great meeting in the Town-hall, on Friday-- such a meeting as is seldom sea , —on the horrors of war. The Lecturers would not be heard by the people until an opportunity was given Mr. Bro,, a to address it on the duties of the middle classes. From Plymouth, with signatures of 2,250 persons to the National petition. It complained of the small numbers which composed the Committee, and that some of them were strangers—that they would send .5/. rent in a few days. Mr. COLLINS observed that the lettt , r from Birmingham r.-a 9 from a member of the Society of Friends. From Cirencester, applauding the conduct of the Con vention. I From Plymouth and from the London Democratic Asso -1 cietion, expressive of their confidence in Mr. Williams, . their Delegate. From Stoke Newington enclosing 10s. rent. From Mr. Douglas, Birmireeham, relative to the defal cation in the rent. The letter stated that "the several matters of finance requiring explanation, had nat been specified. That he (Ms. D.) had never been Treasurer of the National Rent. That he had become liable for, and had paid certain expenses, which he had not been paid, and that the Secretary must continue to put his questions in such a form as to render them intelligable to men of limited comprehension." Mr. MOORE thought they bad no authority to accept Mr. Ryder's resignation. His constituents alone were compe tent to do that. Dr. FLETCHER thought the discussion irregular, and I moved the previous question. I After some discussion, in which Mr. Burn, Mr. Cleave, and other Members took part, it was decided that Mr. Rvder's resignation be accepted, Mr. Ryder observing that he held in his hand a letter from another portion of his constituents, approving of his conduct. RESIGNATION OF MR. RYDER. - Mr. F. O'CoNeort then read an extract from a letter 1 containing a resolution of the Committee of Delegates of the Radical Association, of the West Riding of York ' shire, passed on the 29th April, accepting M r . W. R.vder's resignation, and stating that they no longer considered him a Member of the Convention. Mr. O'C. observed, that there Was a question then before them, which Mr. Ryder alone could decide. The resolution emanated , from a Meeting of Delegates, and not from a public meeting. If they were governett by rules in any instance they must observe them in the present case. The Con li vention had nothing to do with th e reso l ut i on o f the Delegates, but he had felt it right to lay it before the I Convention. Mr. RYDER (who was in the room, lona had not taken I his seat among the Delegates) said if any portion of his I constituents objected to his conduct he should at once re ; sign, and he now did so, but would present himself before 1 them at the ensuing Pilgreen meeting..—( Hear.) i Mr. O'CONNOR thought Mr. Ryeer might take his seal amongst the Delegates to- morrow if lie thought proper. ,'I Mr. FROST thought if Mr. Ryder resigned his seat to day he could not take it again to morrow. 1 I - he SECRETARY n e xt rea d a l etter f rom H ull, addressed ' to Mr. Vinnent, and statieg that 1,671 ar'd;tional s;stla / tires had been obtained to the petition, and that of 1,400 females. It was iatimated that it would be desirable if f the Convention would endeavour to irifese more energy and preserve more union in it; pracee:iines. —(Cheers,) • Mr. Pitkeithley, Mr. ileartweil, Mr. Collins, and other Members, announced the receipt of several additional 1 ' thousand signatures to the petition for the People's I Chart e r. I A letter was then read from the West London Radical 1 .Aseeciation, st at i ng t h at they felt much pleasure in nreseet. ing the Convention with a frame for the National Petition. 1 —( Hear, and cheers ) On the motion of Mr. FITREITIII,EY, seconded by Mr, O'CONNOR, the thanks of the Convention were voted to the IWest Loeclon Radical Association. Mr. I:ICIIASDSON announced that Dr. Fletcher and him self had gone dawn to Mitcham, in Surrey, and hal ad- I dressed the people there. It appeared to him that they f were ,all melt anxious to support the Convention, but they I rec - eurneedsd more unanimity in their proceedings. He also Mated that it was intended to send a Delegate from I I.3str.s!ey, and one from Caine. . PRESENTATION OF THE NATIONAL PETITION. Mr. Rstoeits was then caned on to report, on tile part of ithe Committee appointed to confer with;;eases. Attwood end Kelderi, as to the p-esentation of the National 1 Petition. They had - hoer; extremely anxious to make their report sooner, but circumstances hal prevented them They had had several i n t erv i ews well Messrs. Attwood I, and Fielden, and these gentlemen had written letters, aid 1 he thought the best repoit the Committee could make to the Convention, would be to real these letters—(lissr, hear.) Mr. Ro,sesss than read Mess's. Attwood and Fite'd ing's letters. The purport of them was that the writers wished to have from the Convention, before the presents. thin of the petition, a resolution condemnatory of the strong and violent language which it was said some of the Mem bers made use o f at public meetings; and also that in fu ture they should he governed in their exertions to procure the People's Charter by the principles of peace, law, and order. This resolution we; sought for in order that they (Messrs. Fielden and Attwood) might be prepared with arguments against their opponents in the House of Corn s mons when they would present the petition. The reading of the letters excited strong marks of dis [ approbatione—sorne parts, however, were cheered. Mi. DUNCAN said, these were two very important documents, and he would at once move that, they resolve 1 themselves into a Committee of the whole House to take thorn into consideration. Mr. WHITTLE moved as an amendment, that the peti tion be placed in the hands of Messrs. Attwood and Fielder], as it was not likely to be in better hands—that the thanks of the Convention be sent to these gentlemen, for their communications, and that they resolve them selves into a Committee on Monday next. Mr. Glee—But the petition is to be presented on Monday. Mr. O'CONNOR did not see any advantage to be derived from deferring the consideration of the present question-- it would be better, in his opinion, to proceed to discuss it at once. Mr. DUNCAN thought it was most important that no thee should be lost. They ought to have men who would prey t .eir petition, without any conditions, if su c h men e a t' e could be found—if that Convention was the veritable Re presentative of the People—(Cries of " Question.") Mr. RICHARDSON saw no necessity for going into Corn . mittee. Why not discuss the matter as they now stood ? Mr. CLEAVE moved that the Standing Orders he sus pended, and that they proceed to take the question into consideration at once. The motion having been seconded, was carried unani mously. Mr. Cesevx then moved that the offer of Mr. Attwood to present the petition to Parliament be accepted, and that the Secretary be instructed to send him a copy of the in structions given by the Convention to all its missionaries. Mr. GILL seconded the motion. He thought that was making as great a concession as they were called upon to make. Mr. DUNCAN said, if the proposition was acceded to, it would only prolong the controversy. If the instructions were sent to Mr. Attwood, he would say, "true, these are are your instructions ;" but at the same time he would point to the facts.—( Hear, hear.) "If these instructions were attended to, such language would not be tolerated." He apprehended that Mr. Attwood would satisfy himself, be fore he allowed the controversy to close. Why not apply to Mr. Wakley.—( A Member—" It is now too late.") Then he thought the Committee was highly reprehensible in not making their report sooner. The character of the Con vention was at s t a k e w i t h respect to t h e presentation of the Petition, They bad b een thi rteen wee k s s i tt i ng i n L ondon, and if they now returned to their constituents, and told them that up to the last moment they had never ascertained whstobstaeles stood in the way of the presentation of the , petition ; that the Members they had so confidently relied 'up would not present the petition,. or would not cordially . ;port the demands made in it ; every Delegate in that 70eas must hold himself ci LI i•ation was, were they to say to censured. Now the g that had sot 2 .• for the langu e - e Jr. Att wood that they were ;,- ' tes beg him to preset-A be used, and like crouch eneet v i t e i r o ns submit m it Whateverto have i o ther members might do, he sve'eellre !A,' V l 4; his future course shaped by Mr. Attwood or Mr. Fielden.— ( Loud cheers.) He would say further, without recollect ing the specific language he had used at public meetin s, he should never utter a particle of regret for all the Mem bers of the House of Commons—( Renewed cheers) —and unless every member of the Convention asserted his independence in that way, they would stand degraded .n the estimation of those who had sent them, and ;hey would soon find their places filled by more energetic men. They ought to pass by the letters altogether, as an insult to the Convention, and appoint another Committee to wait on some other Members. if they could not find some Member who would present it without any conditions, then it would be their duty to tell the people whom they re presented, that they could not find a Member of Parlia ment to present their petition unless they first passed a vote of censure on themselves.—( Hear, hear.) That vote of censure went :to imply that, as leaders of the people, they had used language for which they must now go to the " black stool," and do penance.—(A laugh.) He would therefore move as amendment, that a fresh Com mittee be appointed to wait on other Members who would support their petition in the House of Commons, without reference to the past, or conditions as to the future. Mr. FENNING seconded the amendment. Mr. F. O'CONNOR said, if Mr. Duncan was right in his anticipations, be would gladly have seconded his amend ment. There was a good deal that transpired at the inter view with these Members, which perhaps might alterethe opinion of Mr. Duncan and the Convention, as regarded the mere presentation of the petition. The same argu ments bad been urged by the Committee when they had waited upon the Members. It was steed that the adop tion of such a resolution would be a vote of censure upon the Convention, and that they would enter into no com promise that would involve its honour. They stated that they would not restrain Mr. Attwood in the course he was to pursue. Mr. Attwood had gone into a long and ram bling account of his campaiga seventeen or eighteen years ago, and he had then referred to the language used by Members of the Convention out of doors, and instanced two who were not the worst of their Members. Both these gentlemen said they would have nothing to do with Vincent, or O'Brien, for these two men had completely outraged all decency.—( A laugh.) Mr. Frost said that Mr. Att wood was in the habit of associating with gamblers. immo ral, and improper men, and men of bad character—that he had the honour of knowing Mr. Vincent, and that he was a better and more moral man than most of those Mr. Attwood associated with. It would appear from Mr. Attwood's statement that their cause had wonderfully re trograded since 1830. Mr. Attwood said that the peti tion of 1830 signed by 40,000 men went further than the present one. It went to do that which one of Mr. Att wood's resolutions would now denounce. It gave every man who was taxed a vote—removed all placemen and pensioners, and interfered with the law of settlement. Mr. Attwood further stated that it might be sixty days before an opportunity would be afforded him of presenting it, according to the Ballot. He (Mr. O'C.)suggested that Mr. Attwood might move an amendment on the question, that the Speaker do leave the chair on going into a Committee of Supply on Monday night. Mr. Fielden objected to that ; but, however, it was agreed that the petition should be lodged in their hands on the 6th, and Mr. Attwood promised to have it presented, if possible, on Tuesday the 7th of May. Then the difficulty was, if these resolutions were not passed, Mr. Attwood would take his own course, and denounce the means by which the movement had been got up. He reminded Mr. Attwood of the principle that the House of Commons was not responsible for the language used by Mr. O'Connell or any other member out of the House. He reminded Mr. Attwood also that he had said he wished to see the country in such a condition of physical strength as that, at five minutes' notice, he would be able to take every town, village, and hamlet - in the country. He be lieved the Convention would go no further than that— ( Hear, hear.) He ( Mr. O'Connor) was not going to shrink from the responsibility of any language that had been uttered. Whatever attached to one attached to all. If they adopted the course pointed out by Mr. Attwood, and subscribed to his terms, what situation would they be in ? They would be under the corn. plete leading strings of Mr. Attwood and Mr. Fielden. He repudiated the notion of placing implicit reliance, with out a further interview, on these gentlemen. Let the petition be placed in Mr. Attwood's hands, and let the Convention rest upon its own character, its own actions, to form the best answer for anything that might be advanced against the Convention. He would not be accessory to withdrawing a word said by ally member of the Conven tion. If the Convention was unanimous and united, and he trusted it would continue as united as it had been, it might defy all the wily machinations of both its enemies and sham friends. He should not support Mr. Duncan's amendment or Mr. Cleave's resolution. He hoped the entire opinions of the Delegates would he taken, and that such a resolution would be come to as would embody their sentiments. As to presenting the petition on the 6th of May, the Convention must place it in the hands of Mr. Attwood on that day, and the Convention was so far within his trammels that the appointment of the day for present in; the petition must be left to hint. Mr. Attwood and 317. Fielden did not seem to understand the step that was to follow, the necking the Charter the law of the land. The Members of the Convention knew their exact posi tion : every Delegate, therefore, ought fearlessly and de terminedly to give his opinions to those gentlemen, that the Convention would not submit to any dictation, would not enter into any compromise, but that their business was to see the petition presented. If he had omitted anything of impertance he trusted that other members of the Com mittee would supply the deficiency ; and it would then be for the Convention to come, if possible, to an unanimous resolution on the subject. Mr. FnosT did not wish to say anything against the character either of Mr. Attwood or Mr. Fielden, believ ing that that they were desirous to promote the great cause. But he had been exceedingly disappointed in Mr. Attwood and Mr. Fielden. He placed no confidence in them, and if any one moved that the petition be placed in other hands he would support it. Mr. Attwood stated that he , felt it due to himself to guard his own character; but what had his character to do with the presentation of tens petition—a petition which prayed for that which he ad mitted to be right..—(Hear, hear.) As to the charge mode against Mr. Vincent, he could not see that any re liance was to he placed on the accounts which bad ap peared in the papers on which the charge had been founded. Mr. SANKEY could not say that he had no confidence in. those Members, but he must say he thought it rather ab surd that they should have raised objectio - ns founded on language which appeared. in the papers, particularly after Mr. Attwood hirnsc.lf had been misrepresented. Mr. ROGERS, as a member of the Committee, felt called upon to state his view of the matter. His confidence in the gentlemen who had been named remained just where it was. He never had confidence in any man, cr set of men. Ha had the greatest respect for Mr. Fielder,, and would put confidence in him if he had been in the habit of putting confidence in any man; but not being in the habit of putting confidence in any man he could not do So now. His ( Mr. Ro gers's) idea was that the inernh'rs of the Convention ought to have cot:the—cc in themselves.—( Cheers.) He went to the gentleman earned, delegated by the Con vention, to learn from them what their views are and what suggestions they had to make—not to increase their confidence in Cm- e gentlemen, but to ask how the ob ject of the Conv..ntien could be best effected. Ile cer tainly- heard a great deal of talk, for Mr. Attwood had not the most condensed way of expressing his opinions,: and his observations were so diffuse that they were ex tremely difficult to be comprehended ; and he therefore was very glad when Mr. Atticood intimated his inten tion of putting his ideas on paper, so that the Convention might comprehend them better than he had been able to do. —( Laughter.) Mr. MILLS said ti: at Mr. Fielden laid great stress on the word if, asking if those reports were true. Now he (Mr. Mills) wished to know if those reports were true, and he must certainly say he would rather have seen Mr. Vincent here after the unfortunate affair at De vizes than that he should have been absent, because certain reports had gone forih not very cr editehle to the Conven tion. The Convention mould now he put to the test of its in tentions asto the future. He was one of those who believed the people of Great Britein were not prepared for the great movement which some imagined was to take place. He would discharge his duty here, and if the people wanted to go a little further, and he agreed to go with them, his tote might be al' ercd. Although Mr. Fielden might re quire certain things to be done, it was fur the Convention to consider whether it would do those things or not. Mr. WHITTLE wished to bear testimony to the correct ness of the manner in which the last speaker had mentioned the remarks of Mr. Fielden relative to Mr. Vincent. Mr. Fielden had not thrown any imputation on Mr. Vincent's character, but disavowed entertaining tine intentions which Mr. Vincent was supposed to have adopted. Nearly all that had occurred, had convinced him that the considera tion of the matter ought to be adjourned for a day, in order that they might be sure of what they were about ; for the whole of Mr. Duncan's speech had been levelled at the supposition, that a stipulation had been made as to the presentation of the petition. It had been stated that no confidence could be given to Mr. Attwood. That was an expression of great latitude. He ( Mr. Whittle) had fre quently had occasion to find fault welt his judgment—with his having voted, for instance, confidence in the present Administration—with his having dined the other day in honour of Mr. Hume, after Mr. Hume had declared his intention to support a Bill for a centralized police.—( Hear, hear.) He thought these circumstances indicated a great want of firmness of purpose ; but he could not go the length of saying that he distrusted the intention of Mr. Attwood to fulfil his promise, when he said if the petition should be put into his hands he would accept the charge with good faith, and take the earliest opportunity of present ing it to the House. On the contrary, he believed Mr. Attwood would perform the duty which he had undertaken. Mr. FROST explained that he did not impute dishonesty either to Mr. Attwood or Mr. Fielden, but that he had re ferred to their judgment. Mr. WHITTLE was glad that explanation had been eli cited by his remarks. He would ask had Mr. Wakley done anything to give countenance to the movement ? Had he even said he would vote for the Charter ? Had he not been going from one side to the other, and had he not also been present at this very dinner ?—( Hear, hear.) Had he not been for a long series of years supporting the Ministers against whom a charge of finality was now made ? Mr. Attwood had strongly struggled against this Adminis trution—he had made very great exertions to get the people to combine in the manner which he thought best—he had never deviated from that, and he was now ready to present the petition ; he was ready to move for a Bill, and he wanted to know, finding it stated that the Con vention had made up their minds to physical force, whether that was true or false—whether it was avowed or declared? Circumstances of a very unhappy nature which might have been precipitated by the indiscreet lan guage of members of the Convention out of doors, made it imperatively necessary to show whether the Conven tion would encourage the people to acts of violence, and share the responsibility of it or flinch from it. Such cir cumstances would shortly come before them ; and he thought, from Mr. Fielden's public character and conduct, considering the strong opposition which he had given the New Poor Law Bill, the effective resistance which ho had TUE SUN, LONDON. FRIDAY, MAY 3, 1_9:39. made to the New Police, that every suggestion from him I i to the Convention was entitled to the utmost respect. If 1 the Members of the Convention chose to put themselves in comparison with Mr. Fielden as having a claim on the public confidence, a very short time would decide that a larger portion of public confidence was bestowed on Mr. F:elden than on the Convention.—(No, no.) He: never knew a public man in whom more confidence was reposed ; and it was his firm conviction that a declaration of want of confidence in Mr. Fielden, on the part of the Convention, would be a publication to the world that the Convention was not entitled to the confidence which it had enjoyed in the country.—(No, no.) He should certainly vote for the motion of Mr. Cleave because he considered that it gave a proper answer to Mr. Attwood and Mr. Fielden. Mr. NEESOM supported the amendment. If the National Petition was presented by Mr. Attwood, and its prayer was supported by Mr. Fielden, it must be done condition ally, that this Convention should sign certain documents. —( No, no, no.) Allusion had been made to violent lan guage, particularly that used by Mr. Vincent, but it should be remembered that he was the representative of the working classes. Mr. WHITTLE said the moment it was alluded to every member of the Committee expressed his belief that no such language had been used. Mr. NEESOM said, that if violent language had been used, Mr. Vincent was responsible only to the people by whom Ise bad been elected. He had no confidence in either Mr. Attwood or Mr. Fielden, and therefore sup ported the amendment. Mr. VINCENT would vote for the amendment. He was of opinion that the Convention was now in a position to place the petition in the hands of any Member without any condition ; and although Mr. Whittle said the Con vention would not have to make any condition, the letters sta'ed that the answer given to the questions put would guide them as to the course they should adopt when they presented the petition. It mattered not to the Conven tion what line of conduct they adopted in presenting the petition. If they could not get a .:11ember to present the petition, they would go to the country with a stronger case than ever.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. V.) never had made use of the language attributed to him.--( Hear, hear.) He belonged to the moral force party. He cer had spoken warmly, and would not be bound in his lan guage, nor was the Convention answerable for any expres sions which he might use. During the time he had been out he bad been strictly guarded in his expressions. He contended they ought not to submit to the slightest at tempt at intimidation on the part of any Member. It was all right when Mr. Attwood was at the head of the move ment, and no fauit would then have been found. He would now place the petition in the hands of Mr. Att wood and let him do what he liked with it. If he did not choose to present it he might:let it alone, but let not the members of the Convention make fools of themselves. Mr. LOWRY said they had one of two things to consi der, either to submit to the request of Mr. Attwood or Mr. Fielders, or not. If the Convention passed the reso lution required, they would be tying up their hands. They had already come to a resolution not to discuss ulterior measures till the petition was decided on, and the Convention reserved the right to decide on the mea sures necessary to he adopted if the Legislature refused their request. He supported the amendment of Mr. Dun can for this reason. If Mr. Attwood and Mr. Fielden would present the petition, the matter would be at rest. If not, the sooner some other Member was requested to ds so the better.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. HARTWELL supported the amendment. Mr. SKEVINGT ON would object to the petition being pre sented by persons who made objections against the conduct which the Convention had hitherto pursued, without mak ing inquiry whether these imputations were or were not well founded. It would be contrary to their duties if they did so, as by it they would at once admit that they v,ere guilty of the calumnies so heaped on them.--( Hear.) Mr. Recneensoe, after disagreeing with Mr. Attwood for the line of conduct which he was now pursuing and condemning the Convention for conduct which, if even true, was not half so violent as some of the singular resolutions which he had formerly proposed at public de monstrations of the people—(Hear ' hear)—still thought the petition ought to be left in the hands of Messrs. Fiel den and Attwood. He thought the responsibility of the Convention was shared in by those gentlemen as well as any other member—as they identified themselves with its acts by contributing to its establishment, as much as any of the members present.—( Hear, hear.) Would it not he preposterous that they should be held responsible for language which might be used by any of their body when their instructions to these persons were that they should abstain from using such language.— ( Hear, hear). He thought they ought to get the Peti tion, and then let them have the option of refusing to present it.—(Hear, hear). They did their duty when they had doneso, and the country would consider that their duty so far was performed—( Hear, hear). Messrs. ROGERS, BURN, and MILLS supported Mr. Cleave's motion. Mr. MARSDEN and Mr. LOVETT supported Mr. Duncan's amendment. Dr. FLETCHER thought they were not competent to take the petition from the hands of Messrs. Fielden and At wood. He had the fullest conviction of the honesty of Mr. Fielden, and of what he thought are the privileges of peti tioners—a right which he invariably desires us not to give up. —( [leer, hear.) If our Society is a treasonable or illegal Society, Mr. Attwood is as much implicated ;as any other of the members : and if there is any shade in the degree of guilt, he is more guilty than many others ; for he it was who constituted the Convention.—(Hear, hear.) He would not refer to any language which might have been used, as it was not proved, except in their lying newspaper paragraphs that gave the statements for the purpose of pandering to poll er ; and he himself was on some occasions in the habit of using language which those persons had also formerly made use cf, but which now seemed to be them to be violent— ( Hear, hear.) He would say that this was not a clamorous disposition on the part of the people, and it was their firm determination to obtain their pulp ?se, a determina tion which they would carry out.---( Hear.) He thought Mr. Cleave's motion would do all that was necessary for them to do at present. Mr. COLLINS defended the conduct of Mr. Attwood. All that gentleman required was to be put in a position to repel the charges of the enemies of the people.— (Cries of " Hear, hear.") This was all he asked, and was it unreasdnable that he should do so when they knew how many calumnies had been put out against them ? Let them deliberate with due consideration—they ought not to be taken by surprise in such a time—they were now coming to the crisis, and it would be their duty to uphold the cause for which they had assembled by strict and deliberate attention to their present duties. Mr. Collins continued to impress on the Convention the necessity of abstaining from making allusion to the gentlemen who were to present the petition, as to their former expressions, with regard to the movement, and which exoressions were not proved to be true. And concluded by stating, that he agreed that the instructions given to the missionaries should be sent to the Members who were to present the petition, in order that they might have an op portunity derived from those instructions of what was the real sentiments of the Conv en ti on .—( Hear, hear.) Mr. DONALDSON spoke in favour of Mr. Attwood, but said he was lately unfortunately misled by persons evily disposed to the people's interest. He was of opinion that the petition should be sent agreeably to Mr. Cleave's motion.—( Hear.) Dr. M'DowEen said more consequence had been paid to this discussion than it was really worth. If he was mak:ng use of violent language here he might be called to order; if ho made use of such language away from the Convention, what right had Mr. Attwood to call him to order for using it. —( Hear, hear.) It was extraordinary that those two Members (who formerly expressed such love fur the people) should now be about to pass censure on them for the supposed use of language which the Conven tion was not responsible for.—( Hear, hear.) He thought the popular course should be to leave the petition in the hands of the Members without the instructions.—( Hear.) Mr. PITKEITIILEY supported Mr. Cleave's motion. Mr. O'CONNOR would move an amendment to be added to what appeared the most successful amendment. They had a double duty to perfurm. They ought to be obliged to Mr. Duncan for pressing the question. Their object was to get the petition presented by the two best men in the House of Commons, and he conceived these were Messrs. Fielding and Attwood. They had as much right to make them confess for using violent language, which they had formerly use:', as they had to make us confess what was not proved Yesterday Mr. Attwood asked him what were the ulterior measures ; he told him that these ulterior measures were lose which he, Mr. Attwood, recommended, namely, strike.—( Hear, hear.) His object in moving the amendment was, to unite all the Convention in one opi nion, which he thought it would do. He did not know what were the present opinions of Mr. Wakley, but he would say if they were of the very highest description, still he thought Messrs. Fielding and Attwood were the best men to whom the petition should be entrusted. Mr. CLEAVE- The object of his motion was to free the Convent ion from the aspersions which were cast upon it ; and the best mode of doing this was to forwaralk the instruc tions which had been drawn up for the government of the missionaries. These instructions, it would be remembered, were not drawn up for the occasion, but were agreed upon long before the charges were made.--( Hear, hear.) This lie thought was due to the Members of the House, in which they had but few friends. It was with the best intentions those Members threw out suggestions which in their opinion would advance the cause in which the Convention was engaged, and place its Members' in a fairer light in the eyes of the world.—( Hear, hear.) After some explanation the amendment of Mr. DUNCAN was put, and lost by a majority of eighteen. Mr. O'CoNNoa's amendment was then proposed, and was seconded by Mr. HETHERINGTON. It was as follows " That this Convention believing that the right of peti tion has been hitherto considered the constitutional privi lege of British subjects, in order to obtain a redress of grievances, and that the National Petition being the just exercise of that right, for a perfectly constitutional object, we cannot consent to any conditions dictated by Members of Parliament to induce them to present that petition. That the Committee be therefore empowered to call upon Messrs. Fielder, and Attwood, for the purpose of insuring the immediate presentation of the National Petition, and that the Committee be directed to hand to Messrs. Att wood and Fielden the instructions of this Convention to its missionaries, as a respectful answer to their letters and resolutions; and that in the event of any condition being annexed, that in such case the Committee be directed to appeal to other Member or Members of Parliament to present the national petition without any conditions; and that if such Member cannot be found, this Convention will declare the right of petition a farce." Mr. O'BRIEN—If they were to accept conditions from Members of P ar li ament on t h e presentat i on o f petitions, they would eternally disgrace themselves in the eyes of the country.—( Hear, hear.) These Members had no right to say of them that they contemplated violent measures. Much as he respected Messrs. Fielden and Attwood he could not allow them t o say t hi s o f th e C onvent i on w i t h out sa y ing it was anything but behaving well to the Convention. —( Hear, hear, hear.) They (the Convention never gave room for the imp uta ti on w hi c h th ose M em b ers h a d laid on them, on the contrary, he thought the other party opposed to them, would be the party that would commence the ulterior measures here.—( Hear.) Mr. Bussey rose to order. Mr. O'BRIEN was not discussing ulterior measures. The CHAIRMAN agreed with Mr. Bussey. Mr. O'BRIEN bowed to the decision of the Chairman. The House of Commons did not interfere with this right cf petition, which those Members, by thus endeavour ing to impose conditions on the Convention were trying to interfere with. (Order, order.) Mr. O'Brien continued to say that they honoured the Members by intrusting to them the Petition, and be would consider it derogatory of its dignity if they should submit to any condition being imposed on them. He at o nce would resign if this were the case.—(Hear, her. ) On a question whichwas raised, whether there could not be a resumed discussion on the subject, in consequence of Mr. O'Connor's amendment, a short discussion ensued. The CHAIRMAN decided that there should not be a dis cussion on the amendment. Notwithstanding which the debate was renewed for some time longer. The CHAIRMAN then put th e amen d m ent, when it was carried by a majority of six. Here a most confused and unintelligible discussion ensued as to whether a new amendment could be put after the previous amendment had been carried against the original resolution. After being taken through the laby rinth of some dozens of opinions and standing rules of the Convention, it was in the end discovered that the amend ment proposed might be decided on. It was " That the previous question be put." It was accordingly put from the Chair, and was lost by a majority of 21. Mr. O'Connor's amendment was put as a resolution, and carried by a large majority. regularly under discussion, he should be prepared to meet the Noble Lord, and the House would then see whether the Noble and Learned Lord would differ from those with whom he had hitherto acted. Lord BROUGHAM said the Bill was brought forward because it was said to be favourable to the negroes ; on the other hand, if he found that it was intended as a Bill of Pains and Penalties—and it was not denied that it had that tendency—he should certainly oppose the measure. The Marquis of NORMANBY would be perfectly ready to meet the Noble and Learned Lord on that point. It was stated that the Bill would have the effect of postponing the enjoyment of the elective franchise, but when the Bill came before the House he would be in a condition to proved; that it would not defer these rights one moment longer than the time they were able to enjoy them. Lord BROUGHAM said, if the Bill was so good a thing for the negroes, why not extend it to Barbadoes and the other Colonies? The Marquis of NORMANBY said the necessity was obvious. The other Colonies had not refused to legis late. Lord BROUGHAM—Then the Bill is a matter of punishment, and not of bounty and favour—( Cheers and laughter)—and be would oppose it, as he had done the Canada Bill, because it was a penal Act. It was sent, from the Noble Marquis's confession, for the mischief of the whites, and not for the advantage of the negroes. The Marquis of NOR MANBY had admitted that it had that tendency, and that he would be ready to meet the Noble and Learned Lord on that ground also. The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition in favour of the Caledonian Canal. The Earl of ROSE BERRY and the Earl of ZET- L AND presented petitions in favour of a penny postage. The Marquis of BUTE presented a petition in favour of Church Endowments in Scotland. Lord DUNCANNON brought up the Report of the Committee on Irish Education. The Designs Copyright Bill and the Designs Copyrigh Extension Bill went through Committee. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Mar 2. The SPEAKER took the Chair shortly before Four o' Clock. Mr. MACKE NZIE presented a petition from Aber deen, complaining of the Aberdeen Harbour Bill, and praying to be heard by Counsel against certain parts of that Bill. Oa the motion of Mr. ESTCOURT, the British Mu seum Building Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. ESTCOURT moved that the Standing Order No. 12 should be repealed, and that the following should be substituted in place :—That no postponement of the first meeting of any Committee on a Private Bill, or a petition for a Private Bill, shall take place unit as notice be given in the Private Bill Office and in the Committee Clerk's Office one clear day before the time fixed for such meeting. Sir E. WILMOT thought it would be for the convenience of all parties if the Committee, when a selected Member did not attend, had the power to nominate another in his room. The Committee in which he was to have sat to-day was obliged to adjourn, in consequence of the non-attend. ance of a selected Member, which might have been avoided if another Member might have been chosen. Sir T. D. A CLAND said that a similar occurrence had taken place that day, in the Collumpton Roads Bill. Mr. SHAW LE FE VRE hoped the Committee of Se lection would not be blamed, as no neglect had been com mitted on their part. They had sent notes to Members selected, requesting to know whether they could attend or not. - Sir J. Y. BULLER thought a little more time ought to be given in sending out the notice. The motion was then agreed to. On the motion of Mr. Alderman THOMPSON, the Wearmouth and Tyne Bridge Road Bill was read a third time and passed. Sir E. KNATCHBULL presented a petition from dif ferent parishes in Kent, in favour of the South-Eastern Railway Bill. Sir EDWARD FILMER presented petitions in favour of an alteration of the line of the South-Eastern Railway Bill. The Perth Harbour and Navigation Bill was road a third time and passed. SOUTH EASTERN RAILWAY BILL. Mr. DARBY presented a petition from a parish in Kent in favour of the South-Eastern Railway Bill. Captain PEC HE LL presented several petitions in favour of the Bill. Sir E. KNATCHBULL then rose for the purpose of calling the attention of the House to the Petition in the case of the South Eastern Railway Company. The House would recollect that it was a petition in behalf of the South Eastern Railway Company. He would trouble the House very shortly. A Bill had been introduced, and the Standing Orders were not complied with, and he now applied to have the Standing Orders dispensed with. The execution of the plan had progressed to a considerable extent, and if this application should be refused, the Bill would be delayed until next year, and great inconvenience would arise. All parties were agreed, and there was no dissentient e oice. He therefore moved that the Bill be al- loe cd to proceed. Mr. 110DGES felt grateful to the Hon. Baronet for having brought forward this proposition in his (Mr. H's.) absence. The circumstances und( r which the question otiAinally presented itself to the Standing Orders Com mittee were now quite different front what they were at that time, for now there was no opposition whatever to the measure. Mr. BARNEBY said.the proceedings in this case were unprecedented. There was a Bill, No 1, which passed the Standing Orders Committee, and No. 2 did not, the COmmittee reporting that in their opinion the Standing Orders ought not to suspended. He thought this was a new Bill, and the Speaker ought to give his opinion, in order to guide the House to a sate decision. The Bill proposed a deviation from the original line of upwards of three miles, and the parties would not have fair play if the Bill were allowed to pass, for they had been deprived of the notice required by the Orders. Mr. HODG ES rose to answer, but he was inter rupted by Mr. BARNEBY, who spoke to order. The Hon. Member had aiready made one speech upon the Bill, and it was against the rules of the House that he should make another, Sir C. BURRELL said the objection of the Standing Orders Committee was merely technical, and ought not to prevail when all the parties interested were consenting to the alteration. Captain PECHE LL —The great opposition to this Bill was from the London and Brighton Railway Com pany. They had now withdrawn all opposition, and were now in favour of the line, as were all the parties whose land was to be affected. He therefore hoped the House would not agree to defeat the Bill upon a mere technical point. . Mr. DARBY said the parties who opposed the first line were petitioners for the second. He thought that no partici could be taken by surprise. Sir E. KNATCHBULL said the Bill now before the House was the one in which all the Standing Orders bad been complied with. The SPEAKER said it was a very strong proposition to transfer the substance of a Bill, as to which the Standing Orders had not been complied with, to a Bill in which they had been complied wi, h. He considered the least objectionable course would be to ask the House to allow the latter Bill to be proceeded with. O❑ the motion of Sir E. KNATCHBULL the debate was then adjourned till Monday. The Rochdale Water-works Bill was received. Mr. H. BERKELEY presented a petition, in which he said he could not concur, from Bristol, praying that Robert Owen be heard before that House as to his new philosophy.—(Laughter.) Mr. BLACKSTONE presented a petition from Wal lingford against the power given to Magistrates to support Popish chaplains for gaols. Lord A. LENNOX presented a petition from Chi chester praying for an extension of religious instruction on the principles of the Church of England. Mr. THORNELY presented a petition in favour of a penny postage. _ Mi.LO(iKHART presented a petition from a parish in the County of Lanark, prayiug:for au Extension of the Church of Scotland. Mr. COLQUHOUN presented three petitions to the same effect. Lord G. SOMERSET presented a petition agreed to at a county meeting in Monmouth, praying that no system of national education might be established, unless it were placed under the superintendence of the Clergy of the Es tablished Church. NORTH OF ENGLAND RAILWAY. Mr. PEASE moved the further consideration of the Report on the Great North of England Railway Bill. Mr. BOWES moved a clause compelling (so far as we could r.mderstand), the Company to complete the work within a given period. Mr. PEASE said he was glad that it was not pre. tended that the Company had conducted themselvesunfairly. But a similar clause had bean proposed in the Committee, and disapproved of. The Company had laboured with great perseverance to effect an important public work ' • and he hoped the House wo u ld not fetter them by thi s Clausa. Mr. LAMBTON said he thought the clause would tend to cast discredit upon the Company, and he hoped the House would :not agree to it ; for if it was a proper Clan,e it should have been .ntredueed before. —(Hear. ) Mr. HUME thought there ought to be some general rule applicable to all railroads. SIMULTANEOUS MEETINGS. Mr. O'CoNNOR moved that a resolution of which he had given notice, relative to the appropriation of a part of the National Rent to the purposes of the simultaneous meet ings, be referred to the Committ ee a pp o i n t e d t o d ev i se measures for the holding of those meetings. Seconded by Mr. DEEGAN. Letters were read from Nottingham stating that a new Delegate would take his seat on F r id ay i n room o f D r . WADK ; and also stating that 17,000 signatures from that place were forwarded; from Yarmouth, enclosing rent and sending signatures ; from the Tower Hamlets stating that they had elected a Mr. Francis Drake to represent them in the Convention. QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. Mr. WHITTLE preparing to bring on a resolution rela tive to the election of Mr. Williams for East Surrey, it called up Dr. FLETCHER who protested against frittering away the time of the Convention in these affairs of persona; altercation. Mr. DUNCAN then moved that the Convention do adjourn until to-morrow. Mr. HARTWELL seconded this, which was passed un• animously. RINT. Upon which Mr. ROGERS stated that he had received. by the hands of Mr. Richardson, from Caine, 201. ; Pa. diham, 51. ; Arthur Calling, 31.; Eccles, 31. Upon which the Chairman dissolved the meeting. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MAY 2. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his scat on the Woolsack at Five o'Clock. Messengers from the House of Commons brought up several Bills to which the concurrence of their Lordships was desired. The Duke of CLEVELAND presented petitions from Durham in favour of a system of penny-postage. Petitions to the same effect were presented by Lord Hathcr ton, from Hereford and Norfolk; by Earl Fitzcvilliam, from Hythe, and a parish in Yorkshire ; by Lord Falk land, from Melton Regis; and by Lord Brougham, from Birmingham, Liverpool, Gutter-lane, Chcapside, Car rington, Chesterfield, Mile.end Mechanics' Institute, Linlithgow, Sandwich, parishes in Nottingham, Ilford, in Essex, Bromley, in Essex, Bradford, Gloucester, Hud dersfield, Norwich Mechanics' Institute, West Riding of Yorkshire, from Newington, in Surrey, Otterden, in Devon, and several other places. AFRICAN SLAVE TRADE. _ . . _ _ Lord BROUGHAM asked whether her Majesty's Government would have any objection to the production of the correspondence that had taken place between Lieutenant Bosanquet, of the Leveret, and the Portuguese Minister, on the subject of the African slave trade. He apprehended there could not be the slightest objection to the production of these papers. He (Lord Brougham) had been abused by the Members of the Portuguese Parliament, most properly exercising their privilege, as he (Lord Brougham) should exercise his; and they had expressed the greatest indignation at his calling it a feeble Government. Now he apprehended that these censures arose from incorrect translations of his speech. He had certainly alluded to the conduct of An tonio de Melho, Governor of Mozambique, who went out in a slaver from the very port of Lisbon, and the vessel, instead of retur&ng there, had carried over 600 slaves to Rio and Cuba, for the profit of the Governor whom it had taken out. There never had been such a gross thing done, and yet the Governor was never pu r.ished for it. In fact, a duty of seven dollar; a head was levied upon every slave-ship, and yet the Portuguese Government called that prohibiting the slave trade, while they were actually deriving a revenue from it. He had been informed that six months ago a vessel was fitted out with a double set of papers and double logs, and when his informant went on board a sight presented itself which, experienced as they were in the atrocities of that execrable crime called by bad courtesy the African slave trade, was enough to harrow up one's feelings, and almost make the blood curdle in their veins. The vessel had been anchored off the coast at night, and in a tropical climate these GOO wretches were kt pt under hatches all night. In the morning no less than 60 were found stretched dead, easing been suffocated for want of air, and 20 or 30 more were in so desperate a state, that thy died before the ship was a league from the shore.— (Hear.) Here were upwards of 80 individuals murdered, cruelly murdered, in one night by that Government, for who did it by another did it by him• self; 'and yet that Government levied a tax of seven dollars per bead on every slave ship. These were the facts which he had thought it his duty at the earliest moment after they had come to his knowledge to lay before their Lordships and before the face of the country, to the useful and wholesome end that they might be inqu'red into in the proper quarter, and that those who bonsted they had made treaties with Portugal by which Por tugal had bound itself to put down the slave trade, should demand an immediate explanation upon the subject, He believed the facts he had stated, were net exaggerated, and if necessary, he had no objection to give his author's name. With these observations, he had only to ask the Noble Lord at the head of the Admi ralty, if there would be any objection to the production of Lieutenant Bosanquet's correspondence on these matters. Lord MINT° was not e.ware that there would be any objection. At the same time he would be glad to have the opportunity of consultieg with his Noble Friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, before he gave a decided answer. A notice had some time since been given by his Noble Friend of his intention to Lev some papers on the table of the House of Commons connected with the Por tuguese treaty, and to found upon those papers a measure of a vigorous character calculated to enforce our treaties with Portugal.—( Hear, hear.) It was not at all impro bable that the papers now referred to might form part of more to be produced by his Noble Friend. Under such circumstances, the Noble Lord would probably delay making his motion till he saw what papers were produced by his Noble Friend. He (the Noble Lord) would say th at as far as his recollection served him the account of the transactions given by the Noble and Learned Lord wo u ld b e found to be pretty cor rect. The Noble and Learned Lord had said the slave trade had been connived at very openly—he might have used a stronger word than connived. The active and zea lous conduct of Lieutenant Bosanquet had been the sub ject of great complaint on the part of the Portuguese. When those complaints had been received, the answers sent out to them were that vs soon as Lieut. Bosanquet returned to this country, every opportunity would be taken to promote him for his conduct.—(Cheers.) Lord BROUGHAM was exceedingly glad to hear the statement which had just been made by the Noble Lord. He hoped the measure about to be taken would in deed be a vigorous measure. The more vigorous it was the better pleased with it would be be, and the more heartily would he support it. It was useless, however, to talk of abolishing the slave trade until they put an end to slavery. He agreed on this subject very greatly with Mr. Buxton. He thought a very. good encouragement might be given to the abolition of the trade by admitting first into the Colonies and next into this country all sugars made by free labourers, and excluding all that was made by slaves. There had been no English Slave Trade since his Bill of 1811, making it a felony, and it was more than 20 years after that, before their Lordships abolished Slavery in the Colonies. He would just say, that he by no means agreed in the doc trine that it was not right to scud armed cruizers, to take into custody pirates, and persons who were carrying on this horrible crime. ( Hear.) Having stated on a former occasion his great admiration of the conduct of the Assembly of Antiguain abolishing slavery b e f ore t h ey were even co mpelled. it was now his painful duty to say that he found the present House of A ssem bl y h a d ta ken a great deal away from the credit of their predecessors, who had acted so admirably, an d w h ose con d uc t be bad. hade a occasion in so much to approve of. They ha d d 0 their power to take away f r om the neg ro his political rights. They had raised the qualification fromcur rency to 501., th e e ff ect o f w hich was to disfranchise 2. every negro in the island of Antigua. This tended in no way to give stveeepons fidenee in Colonial Legisl ation. In his opi nion, ought to be country refused takentorepe torepeal that r epeal the law t and if the Legislature of that t law, their Lordships ought to interfere, and repeal it for them. The Noble and Learned Lord concluded by mov ing for the production of the Act of Antigua in reference to raising the qualification, as be had no information at present upon the subject. The Marquis of NORMANBY thought it would be better that the Noble Lord should give notice of that mo tion, as then he should be enabled to state what course he would pursue. Lord BROUGHAM said that be would give notice of that motion. The Noble and Learned Lord then pre sented a petition from the Jamaica Merchants in Lon don against the Bill introduced into the House of Commons for suspending the Constitution of that countr y . The reason why he had been entrusted with this petition, was in con sequence of the course he had adopted on the subject of Canada. He was not acquainted with the merits of the cases of the petitioner, but be must confess that the conduct pf the Assembly of Jamaica with respect to the former Bill, was anything but creditable to themselves. But it was another question, whether the course they had pursued ren dered it necessary that their Constitution should be abo• lished for any length of time. Lord St. VINCENT supported the prayer of the peti tion. He censidered the measure one of the hardest and most uncalled for that had ever been brought forward. Lord NORMANBY said that when the Bill came PENNY POSTAGE. Mr. HODGSON presented a petition from Hertford, praying for the establishment of a penny postage on the plan of Mr. Rowland Hill. Mr. HUME presented petitions to the same effect from Kilkenny, the Town Council of St. Ives, Fowey, Dundee, the Mayor and Inhabitants of Huntingdon, Bardwell, Burnham, six parishes in London, and several other places. Sir R. FERGUSON presented petitions to the same effect from three parishes in Nottingham. Mr. HOPE presented a similar petition front Weymouth. _ . Mr. PEASE presented a similar petition from Hudders field ; and petitions with a si m il ar prayer were presented by Mr. Fitzsimon, Mr. Hughes, Mr. 0. Gore, and Mr. Round. Mr. COLQUHOUN presented a petition from Green wich, complaining of the manner in which certain signa tures had been obtained to a petition presented from that town. MALTA. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Malta, praying the House not to adopt any measures to deprive the people of that country of the benefit they cherish under the Press. The Hon. Member moved that the petition be printed, and gave notice of his intention to call the attention of the House to the subject of the petition on the 19th. THE CHARTISTS. Lord DUNGANNON gave notice of his intention to move for a return of all the communications received by the Government, - relative to the arming of the Chartists. THE BANK OF ENGLAND. Mr. HUME postponed his notice relative to the Bank of England, to the 16th. re Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but the clause be tsken out of the general rules that the paper shows• was negatived without a division. laid on the table, and especially as the French Govern LONDON AND SOUTHAMPTON RAILWAY. - ment not only refused to make compens ation, but even de- The Report of the Committee on this Bill was taken vied the justice of the claims of the suffer ers, be thou,, t, produesion of the papers by the Noble Lord would j "b ir The London and Greenwich Railway Bill, and the the statements he had made, and show th at if t h e casee bad Wishaw consideration, and ordered to be engrossed. ... Wishaw and Coltness Railway Bill, went through the same not been settled before this, it was not through the negl' stage. nonce of her Majesty's Ministers. The fact was be CLAIMS OF BRITISH SUBJECTS ON FRANCE. en- Sir T.) had no doubt that the French determined to Sir S. LUSH INGTON, in m o ving an address for copies gross all that part of Africa which exten ded from the ee e ; Me of all correspondence between her M a jesty's Government diterranean to Gambia, and that the outrage c om p lain e d and France, relative to the cl a ims o f B r iti s h s u bj e cts for re- of had been committed, not as a reerisal for su pp dress on account of injuries inflict e d on B r iti s h t ra de on the wrongs, but that they might the more easily put them d western coast of Africa, since the year 1834, said that nearly sign into execution. five years had now elapsed since this att ac k h a d b e e n made Mr. HAWES was of the same opinio n as the Beni; on British property, and no redress had been obtained; and Gentleman who had just sat down. He was rea d y to re. if these injuries, to which he allud e d, were really and mit that the foreign department of her Majesty's Goye e. ment had not been inattentive, but it would not do to truly injuries which ought to be redressed, tTie time bad British trade suspended and British merchants unin Government n n_t, now arrived when there must be ample opportunity fled from year to year. When the French Governme . our for the most perfect inquiry. This was a matter interest only refused compensation, but denied the justice t a ing not merely to the commercial interests which were atwas stake—not merely as regarded the interest or certain indi. claims, on the ground of principle, and even negativedn viduals concerned in this trade, but it was a ureat and construction of the treaty upon which the claimme".! important question in another point of view, whe- founded, we were bound to adopt more effective_re . I ` h ther or not the British nation should be sures that mere negocietions, seeing that the and a .t e le excluded from the liberty of trading on the western had already taken possession of Algeers, , e l a. coast of Africa. If he was not only misinformed ,as to whole of the Mirth of Africa after their expressed territorial the circumstances, an insult had been offered in the ration that they did not intend to make any territor h t n l is l f person of British merchants to the British nation, quisitions there. The Noble Lord now took upon i s , _a w remaining up to this hour not only unredressed, b u t a great responsibility, and it would be his duty to . 7_. without the shadow of an attempt to obtain redress. them, before the close of the Session, the Correspood eu° He did not wish to disturb the amicable relations between that would explain the part he had acted in the nag oeis• this country and France; but he thought the best and tion with the French Govern,nent. safest mode to secure the continuance of those relations, if any injury should take place, would be to require rapers- produced. Mr. HUM E timegtw +4l correspondence ought to.be roduced. He did not approve of the dilly. dallyit,Yst tion within a reasonable time. He should confine himself al- tem—( Laughter) —and he thought that in this 1 romp, most entirely to the statement of facts SS he understood they least it was clear that it was not likely to lead to prr u i s " . had occurred, and the House should first be apprised that redress, or to maintain good feelings between twof"_..n. the aggression of which he complained took place on the tries. The post t emement of the settlement of the "°!" western coast of Africa, in the neighbourhood of a place dory Question with the Americans was mother cal—nuto called Portandique. By the treaty of 1783 the right of could say whet this might lead to in another year ?on trading with Portandique was secured to the British nation, Government ought to take the sense of the House ', le and in that state it remained for a long period. Prior to question—then they would be doubly armed if th e Y u Tat the breaking out of the war of 1792 the French went and to seek for redress. The Attiericy President had ' been devastated the country, and left it entirely desolate. At once have taken the , ense ri . the Congress, if he h oed bad the cessation of the war in 1814, although Portandique had treated by the French Government as the Noble b i again become one of our possessions, it was again considered been. to be ceded to France, as by the treaty of that year, all that Lord PALMERSTON begged it to be un der s st bla ci she was in possession of in 1792, was restored to her. The that he did not say that the French GovernineT on place, however, had been utterly destroyed by the French finally rejected the claim, if that were the case tl?e was before that period—it had been abandoned by them. The for the papers would be quite proper ; what he Said_ . . ice question then was, whether Portandique returned to France that the French Government had not admitted the J .ii e s s c ` to , under those circumstances or not.—( Hear, hear.) H e of the claim, and that the question was still under a as contended that under eith e r of th e t reat i es F rance h a d sion. The trade to Portandique was not unprotected a n to most decidedly violated the l aw . If t h e y a bid e d b y t h e Hon. Member for Lambeth seemed to think. W he o we treaty of 1783, the British had a d ec id e d an d permanent gum trade commenced in the season, armed vessels m time right to trade in gum throu g h ou t th e w h o l e di str i ct . If sent to protect it, and if it had declined, it was not fro they went upon the treaty of 1814, then he contended want of protection. rot es' that Patandique was no longer a C o lo n y o f F rance , b ut Mr. HUME asked what might the extent of the p under either state of the case, the aggression of which he tion be ?__( Hear, hear.) complained took place. In July 1834, th ere were t wo Lord PALMERSTON said that one or two ship ships, the Industry and the—, carrying on the accus- of war were sent to that point every year , ss c at, tomed trade in gum on that coast, and, without case might be, and he was not aware that anY any notice whatever, the French commander upon the plaints had been made of want of sufficient protection. .as station ordered those vessels off. Th e H onoura bl e Sir ROBERT PEEL wished to put a question to the and Learned Member then read a l e tt er a dd resse d Noble Lord, relative to the seizure of the pilot letil° by the French commander to the captain of one of Express packet. The explanation given by the e b t wits these vessels, stating that the carrying on of that trade was Lord was, that the pilot had been taken from a 'll' oo a violation of all law, subsisting between civilised coup- man. Now, what he wished to aek was, whether ill { tries. There was not a singl e syllable in that letter either had been any admission, on the part of the Govern tabs founded in fact or law, and whatever might be the measure here, that a blockading squadron had the right to b e et adopted by the French Government, their first act in cum- a pilot from a merchant vessel, and whether a the eke d mon justice ought to have been to di savow a d ocumen t o f vessel, under the flag of England, was not to be 10 that description. By the treaty of 1783, it was agree d upon in the same light as a ship of war ? er r that the English should carry on the gum trade from the Lord PA L MER.SON conceived that there was a a e d ill month of the river Suigc to the bay of Portandique, pro- rence between a merchantman and a ship of war; L a : bpi vided they did not form any permanent settlement. What the letters addressed to him by Count Sebastiani , " t t llis was the lawless construction which had been put upon that not said that the French Admiral was not aware thisiptst treaty by the French commander ? That a ship at anchor vessel belonged to the Royal Navy, but he had W I it ner forsooth, was a " permanent settlement."—( Hear, to him, that in French the word " marine" applied hear, hear.) No person who was at all conver- to merchantmen or the Royal Navy. we e %t sant with the African trade would imagine that- Mr. P. HOWARD did not think that it would -pie it would be carried on in a ship under sail.--( Hear, pedient for the House to accede to the motion of the hear.) The answer of the British commander was mo- Hon. Gentleman. i o l° derate, and characteristic of a British seaman . H e re - Dr. LU S H ING TON felt considerable diffient t l n c er fused, properly refused, to obey the peremptory mandate the course he ought to pursue, for he was in the sara'n e , tis of the French officer--( Hear, hear)--who therefore dition now as if he had never made his motion, becanbo fired upon the vessel—destroyed 5001. wor th o f gum , had elicited the same answer fr o m the N o ble Lord 19 bid seized the vessels, and made the supercargo and officers head of the Foreign Department as he obtained iron:elle prisoners. —( 'leer, hear.) This took place in 1834—and in August last. He would put it to the French G.% rit up to the present moment no reparati on h a d b een ma d e. ment whether it was honourable to them to go on ill' h ots (Hear, hear.) In 1835, the French b a d bl oc k a d e d t h e gotiations from year to year, leaving British Ine rc w with coast, and cut off the British trade in con t ra di ct i on to a unredressed. If he gave, way on the present oeei;,,,it promise that they would not make a blockade, without and did not press for the papers he bad moved n s wat any war, or justifying cause for it, an d i n f act t h e would lee upon two grounds, first, because he WI e e blockde was but a false and pret en d e d bl oc k a d e , d es i gne d pending a negociation between two countries i. " f g to put a stop to our trade—that trade h a vi ! , g b een t rans - not usual to grant papers; and secondly, because h e tot I e adeaino 0 ferred to a French Company.—( H e ar, h ear .) Th e gum convinced that a stronger appeal would be w trade of this country with the western coast Africa was French Government, backed by the House of Ccor one of vital importance to many of our manufactures-- and the people of this country. The Right HO' ! and last year amounted to 27,000 cwt.—( Hear, hear)-- tleman then withdrew his motion. w.Ol ' but though it had greatly increased of l a t e y ears , HARBOURS ON THE SOUTH-EA STe'w 4 it had increased to the prejudice of British commerce. COAST. ,071 being carried on in foreign vessels.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. E. RICE t h en rose to move an a dd ress for an '7 o ait. Doubtless the Noble Lord the Secretary f or th e F ore i gn i nto t h e state o f t h e h ar b ours on t h e south-eastern e i'w ii?, t Department had made energetic remo ns t rances t o t h e H e cons id ere d t h a t t h e h ar b ours on t h at coas t W a '''d the French Government, and it was high time that the form a sufficient state of defence in time of wa,_ ;Bn „ ii s 0 . French nation should be taught that neither their Govern- great object in the motion he was about to Ina 'a -- t , 1 ` ment—when they ward lucky enough to get an adrninis- have an inquiry, by scientific persona, in order t.,":_ots tration—( A laugh)—or their King, who seemed to govern might be seen what improvements could be made. b u til l o t entirely by his (sea will-_( Hear, hear)—should trifle with ing at the measures for the formation of railroad, to tdot British interests; but that ample recompense must be, part of the country which had received the sanction ()oio, without further delay, given for past injuries, and full seen- House, and which would afford a more speedy Comte of rity against future aggressions.—( Hear, hear.) The tion to the coast, he thou . ght it was desirable that 00 Hon. and Learned Member concluded by moving an ad- improvements should dress for copies be immediately made in of all correspondence between the French there. The Hon Member raav ' n ' concluded by and English Governments relative to the outrages coin- addressofwhich l . nu a 0 milted on British traders to the western coast of Africa, in 1834. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE - E • ate not rise for the purpose of throwing any obstacle 1 % 4 Mr. GROTE seconded• the motion of his Right Hon. way of the present motion. He believed the i n got Fjerl. He (Mr. G.) was not disposed to make snch would be attended with the most beneficial results, ° so y harsh criticisms on the spirit of the French Government, as the Government and Parliament would be put in P ° o ld !he author of the pamphlet quoted by his Right lion sion of the best information that skill and science c o os Friend had done. He (Mr. G.) was most desirous to see. produce. He hoped, however, that undue expeet a ns etl friendly relations continued with the French Government,t would not be excited out of doors, as if it was °IIP t fa r the rhaer to but he thought Sufficient attention had not been given that large sums would be expended by the Governtepifis. the wrongs inflicted by French authorities on British mei!)_ improving particular ports, it would only pareln hin welt chants, amongst whom were some of his own constituents, dual efforts. He would have no objection to Ple ° _€ dn e vitt ) Reversing the case, in order to come to a sound opinion on to h inquiry, but inquiry only. It would be !!" it, lie hacr asked himself what he should think if the aggres sors had been British, and the sufferers French, insteasi of n possesiO. t e most beneficial results, locally, so far as directing the efforts of particular parties, if they were put I , c old i' v the aggressors being French, and the British sufferers, as of the best and most impartial information that they now were; and his answer was that if Bri- procured upon the subject.—( Hear, hear.) coast ofij tish authorities had committed on French merchants E COa- • Alderman THOMPSON thought the north-eass ea ogan ... 4 wrongs to the same extent as those now corn- of equal importance with the south-eastern. Th s ete"a m ers Pa l plaincd of by us, the person responsible for traders segually dangerous, and the intercourse by_,_ tigis . e . :,',l them would deserve a very severe reprimand, and the damage ought to be made good to the injured parties. In. would therefore move as an amendment, that the w'° rd case the damage was not less than 100,0001. Another North" be introduced after the word ' "'South." a ' t v ery Alto consequence, was the entire depression of mercantile enter- Sir E. CODRINGTON thonht the question °` prise between this country and the west coast o f Africa; importance, and in case of war it would be most &si r : at et' our ships had been driven away from that district ; indeed have harbours of refuge. There could not be very g r in English capital end energy were almost interdicted from pense in the survey which was proposed. n obiee tec Vit any exertion in that quarter. He was ready to admit The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHERUEw n - 0 . '" i that the Noble Lord had not been inattentive in pressing the amendment, as no previeus notice had been g' r : ro on . ,,ll l , was acceded to there would be a series of a mendmen v t a e y the claims of all the merchants upon the French Govern- round the House. Let them perfect the present sur 3' not' , ment, but as at the end of five rears, that Government first instance and t then it would be seen whether e h or ope d oP showed no more inclination to ir.ciemnify the sufferers than prosecute iveuld it be further. wita wn l: t 001 at first, lie thought it was high time the question should these grounds advantageous e g r e an nu e s n t d o mnt be taken up the House of Commons. The trade of the Col. PLANTA thought the inquiry a most n e porta a titn e ~ English to Portandique, admitted of no more question whether he regarded it as a measure of protection in b beael than our trade with any other part of the w o rld ; an d if war, or f or th e secur ity o f th e i r merc h an t vess els. 11 6g la l ah r e after all the care and caution of our merchants,th e i r s hi ps had witnessed the destruction of no le s s than slit Ve ; a rl w lie were to be driven away by a French Comm an d er, year on the north-eastern coast between Dungen° s he Pil o their supercargos insulted, and the wh o l e tra d e ' mouth of the Thames. He was delighted to hea r ' i s iefi g almost entirely ruined, with impunity, a genera l Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the ExcheVe r f r old , allowed an assent to the motion, and he hoped tine/ fin -W. l Z r feeling of insecurity must in consequence extend itself vedto perfect that inquiry before it was extende?_,.avy it . i ip among those engaged in British commerce. He (Mr. (Hear, h ear.) He, believed all parties who were_ w'e eni eot G.) was fully sensible of the importance of this question; reseed would be willing to co-operate with the Crovel" he was awiLe of the justice of the complaints of our mer- the measure so soon asit et foot ~ t 0( 5 chants, end of the bona fide character of our trade with Mr. WHITE would ce w rt a a s in s ly support the arneno i- f,. efr,, Africa. He was also aware of the right that had b ee n se _ Hon. Member for Hull, believing the protection of th d. e" .e . o l to" cured to them by express treaty, and feeling that those r i g h ts was equally necessary on the North as on the Sout h -¢ had been violated, he felt the necessity of taking some CO ewe the steps to secure redress for the grave and serious injury The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said if the amend° t bat ww Hon. Member was carried, he should certainly Inc° Wis'l4 which had been inflicted on our interests, and to prevent a words" and South-western" be added.—(A laugh.) 00 bow recurrence of similar outrages , . On these grounds he se- stituents were deeply interested in the question• conded the motion of his Right Hon. Friend. Lord PALMERSTON said that when his Right Hon. equal Ni justice would be dealt out to all parties. eesse il rr. DERBY hoped supported the amendment. be P" t oir Friend brought this question before the House last year, he ''M hoped the amendment would n0 t,. 0 &pi (Lord P.) stated that he was fully sensible of the m- as it would' deprive Y the country of the benefits of t he ' portance of the matter, that negotiations were pending with sion altogether. the French Government on the subject of the claim for resoca lte ealt t Sir THOMAS TROUBRIDGE hoped no " - ; fo ' pOr - s be compensation from the British, and that he hoped would be thrown in the way of the very useful an" - of before long to be able to lay before the House motion that had been submitted to the consideration lit 5 a satisfactory reply from the French Government. He House. , 0 l e was now concerned to state that the discussion between Mr. PEASE thought the House had taken far L cs ees sel the two Governments bad not yet -reached that agreeable view of the subject. It was well known that for one cars A stage; he undoubtedly agreed mainly with his Right Hon. passed down iiA t i ! l te c ar o ne l l ten passed_ Northward' c R sa id ' CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUsnot Friend, not only in his s t a t emen t o f f ac t s , b ut a l so i n hi s words in explanation. be opinion that a wrong had b een d one to B r i t i s h su bj ects, for Sir. Alderman which they were entitled to compensation at th e h an d s o f ti on was un d er cons id erat i on un d er he administratiVoulde the French G overnmen t.—( H ear , b ear .) Th at being the R. Peel, he got a promise that the north-cast coast res, opinion of h er M a j esty ' s G overnment they conveyed it to attendedto; therefore he was only acting consiste ntl y let itY the French Government, and endeavoured to satisfy and his amendment. , the to convince e them of the justice of the claims of our merchants. Mr. HUME did not see any reason for postpoli n teble f 0 Th .. Government of France had not yet admitted that those quiry respecting the north-east coast. It syas 10a , on ° i n wrongs had been committed by their servants, and they also see the distress of a number of ships on the conwild (1 , said that our documents had failed to convince them that storm, and therefore he trusted the Government waanr oforo the ccmplainants had as yet shown any ground to Entitle duty and make inquiry as to the best spot for a h n l a aitY tP them to pecuniary compensation. Her Majesty's Govern- foge - which would do much good. It was due to sum his the matter ought to be instantly commenced. ~ ~,i d a we ment not being satisfied with this answer, next transmitted The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUED• - 1 ' to the French Government reasons which they thought only objection was to the opening of the whole questiea'opioie most conclusively established the justice of the claims highestmilitary authorsaty in. country had Wie s ve e n s h a v is o a e be w ' t already before them. The discussion was still pend- of the necessity a survey of the cast coast. "I Pa' 0 o itFPL u i ing between the two Governments ; he therefore ginning, and he trusted it would be allowed to go on on, submitted to his Right Hon. Friend who made the motion, burdening it with one other part of the coast of flgl'i t es that it open the question respe c ting the whole sea c ast tactics, nor advantageous, but, OR the c o nt rar y, disadvanta- would be neither consistent with Parliamentary Scotland, and Ireland. He was most anxious4-not: toit p li o e u g l s3 De the motion of the H on. Alderman, and he hopeds geous to the public interests, if he (Lord P.) were to yield ht floe' ithdrawn. to the motion, and consent to the production of the papers ". Mr. A. CHAPMAN sepported the views of the Rig , the called for. It had never been the habit of the House to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. insist upon the production of papers while discussion was Sir E. KNATCHI3ULL was perfectly satisfied : o l id g ive pending between this Government and a foreign Power, views of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he ''' r ep especially ri ,; especially when that discussion was on a subject of the him all the aid that lay in his power. notr. too i tott o nature to which the present motion alluded. For the same The Gallery was cleared for a division, but reasons he was convinced that the House would be of bpi- the amendment haying been withdrawn. The origin' F i r st nion with that it was not fit that he should now enter into was then A agreed r to. respecting the postponed his motion ns . t , cor e an examination of the facts and arguments in the case, nor proper for him either to state in detail the grounds on Fr A u l it r s . and ß Tenths p o e t* Mr. GIB SON thou rose er t gy ti" thfoerla6trhetiurref 8 . 11 Deo' which he thought the claims of the suff er e rs were just, or s p on denee between our Gover o n in m o e s n e t and their agent i n on tb° to inquire into the answers and reasons brought forward mark, relative to the duties and fees lately by the French Government. He could assure the transit of goods between Hambur and Lubeck. o to pike House that her Majesty's Government was fully impressed sage was becoming the high road g for our c"" er a c til la to g i m posed g at pas; with the importance of this case, both as regarded north of Europe, and had been free for centuries as u_ it4 ee . e, t the interests of the parties concerned, and as regarded when heavy dues were imposed upon all goods P 5 g the sls r a ji the general interests of the commerce of this country, and Hamburg to Lubeck. They were also abrogaetirues one o ti he could also assure the House that on their side no en- of the Reciprocity Acts, by imposing double !h lev i e d 1 , 41. 0 deavour should be wanting to convince the French Go- goods going from Hamburf to LubC:ck—to those going fro yernment that her Majesty's Government felt this to be a goods from Lubeck to I amburg. The goods w e , while those conilr!orrto chiefly the produce of England, Russia ann t w ss just and proper claim, and although it might be under 'll3' bi stood that the French Government were slow to admit the • Lubeck to llamburgh, were the produce of IL t for elf u s justice of the claim, which others had no difficulty in recog- ca, thereby giving them a great advantage over us. f o rt oss nising and sympathising with, he was satisfied that the nation.. The Government of Denmark put _ e we , a sufficient ,s,eround for calling upon the Govermen or m -- ere° French Government had much too great a respect for itself reasons for these dries—for instance, they said conwniong arid for the great country whose affairs were entrusted unto taking such a course that the Sound dues will notd o re 0 .° 5 other b e h a o h r aS it, not to feel that it ought to make reparation as soon as valuable. They were in themselves questionablre,,auneg. Th ed i it was satisfied that it was bound to do so. qui 0 F y e Alderman THO 111 P SON concurred to a great extent per se and but 0:5 this was a case good subject foll d n i d i a t a i o p n pe a u r p t o o n with the Noble Lord, him m hie t b n t n o nil ra fn is r e in witi a l Teduties leyied 1 the as the negociation had been going on for four years with- Affairs, that he was pretesting the House would hear from the Noble Secretary ,i)ovv.cr i : no t o ti :Y e out any advantage to the sufferers, he thought . againstthose duties, but against the Sta e H would not de tal e it ought to k• ing of Hanover.—( Hear, hear.) e EVENI , \G U,