The Sun. — London, England, 1839-02-22 00:00:00

• Mti MIK 4 .. ~ ~' cording to the occasion, a very . material difference, When in the last Session a Right Hon. Gentleman in troduced a 13111 for the purpose of obliging those gentle men to carry the public mails and correspondence they raised a mat outcry, as if the most flagrant injustice on their interests was about to be perpetrated, but when they wanted a Bill on their own behalf, they came cap in hand, the most humble supplicants, before the House. In truth, when they had attained their objects, they were the most stringent of all monopolists. He was sorry indeed that a Noble Duke elsewhere had not pressed his motion for a periodical revision of the rates and tolls on roads. In many instances the railway shareholders had been permitted to advertise the hours of starting trains, xithout paying any advertisement duty. He should I,ke to see all these duties abolished ; but if they were taken off one, let them be taken off all. Great as were the advantages of railw a y s i n regar d to spee d , h e con tended they were chiefly advantageous to persons travelling_ from point to point. But for short in termediate distances, or over cross-roads, they were comparatively unproductive of adv tntage. He believed the most effectual appeal be could make to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was that accord ing to the present system, the revenue was actu ally falling off. He had moved for a return of the amount of the composition and mileage duties on railways and stage•carriages, and he found the amount in 1837 to be .514,039/. ; in 1338 it bad fallen off to 49 9,0861., and on the sth January 1839, to 494,1301. This was from the composition and mileage upon railways and stage-carriages taken together. If they compared that with the old modes of communication on stage carriages alone they would find it had fallen off from 583,742/., which it was in 1837, to 424,4961. in 1839. Showing a falling off of 49,2461., and /he earnings of coach proprietors would exhibit a falling off of 393,968/. He had not been able to obtain a return of the Post-horse duty, but he knew an indi vidual in one town who, in October, November, and December last, had paid 81/. loss than in the correspon ding period in the three preceding years. Without a reduction of two-thirds on the Post-horse duties the Post masters would not be able to contend with their rivals by steam. Ile would now state to the House what proposals he meant to come to; that;he might not keep the House in the dark as to what he intended to do, he would, shortly state the sum ; he proposed in the first place to abolish all duties on coachmen and other servants employed about coaches ; he proposed to lower the licence duty or abolish it, and all supplementary licences, which was a source of great annoyance in beach offices ; he proposed to change the mileage duty, but it was not his intention to give them an oppor tunity of overcrowding the interior of their coaches, and he proposed the charge should be at the rate of rail way carriages, and that the charge should be exactly the. same—he proposed to abolish the duty on all four e} eeled carriages let for hire—he proposed to diminish past horse duty to the amount of a halfpenny or pe , n: per nurse —a large diminution of charge, in fact, such a one as he was confident his Right Hon. Friend, the Chan. cellos of the Exchequer, would receive larger sums after the diminution he proposed, than from the large sums now Paid. There were two charges which he wished to with hold from the diminution he proposed. lie could not con ceive any means by which a commercial country could r,,ceive a greater benefit, and it appeared specially meant as a benefit, he alluded to carriages employed in carrjing on the offices of labour, and those in which the poorer classes might have the opportunity of riding out to enjoy the fresh air or participate in the beauties of the country. The Chancellor of the Exchequer would say that I propose too much and could not sup port all those changes, but be begged leave to say that he was not absolutely abolishing duties, but meant only reduction or equalization. He proposed to place a small tax on the conve3anee of gentlemen's carriages by the railway. At present gentlemen could travel from 13h minglia m to London, paying but a very small tax owing to she opportunity afforded them of transmitting their carriages by the railway, but it would be found that if the same carriage travelled by post-horses lie would pay a ta x cf 1/. Bs. to the Government; if it travelled by rail nay he would only pay a tax amounting to the small sum of 4s. 8,1. He proposed, therefore, to lay a small tax on gentlemen's carriages transmitted by the railroad. He Proposed also a small license duty upon steam-boats._(A loud cry of " No, no ") Why steam-boats carried oa the trade of licensed victuallers, and he thought it but just that a license-ditty should be paid by steam-boats; therefore it was his intention to propose it; he contended that the time had arrived when it was absolutely necessary that s , me such charge should be made in justice to all parties. The legitimate object of ail taxation was revenue, but a large class of most respectable individuals say that we ought to push reduction to a farther extent than we find it practicable. He had been occupied in lacing before the House stale and dry details of facts, but he trusted that he had been enabled to establish some claim to the justice of this House. He had been enabled to show the community that they were unfairly dealt with by the present state of taxation. He should move that the House resolve itself into a Committee to take into Consideration the subject of taxation, with a view to its reduction and equalisation. Mr. HINDLEY rose to second the motion, and was very anxious to have the attention of the House for a small time, because on a former occasion he was en gaged by a large body of innkeepers and licensed victual ler,: to lay their case before the House. The Chancellor of the Exchequer then did all that he was able to do—he took off a portion of the Post-horse duty, hut he did not go tl:e length the Hon. Gentleman had now gone— the losses, of those people had now brought them nearly to a state of ruin. No man more than he rejoiced in the triumph of the arts, they might change undoubtedly as lie hoped they would, the state, and add to the camforts of the people ; but he assured the House, no ore re , gretted more than he did himself, that men not exceeded is respectability were placed in such a state in pro portion to others that they were more highly taxed than any other of her Majesty's subjects —men who when oppressed by losses, had no other alternative than in that of closing their houses altogether. The improvement Steam navigation was s o rap id t h at no one could treeipate it and it came up on th e wor ld a ll at once. In 817 a document appeared with the signature of John Croker, the mere mention of whose name should erveage the admiration of every Member of that House. He at that time declined giving any assistance to steam - navigation, because he said it might Ile of some service in canals, or sma ll r i vers, b ut never could be made avail able to any considerable extent. When now, however, they were nearly bringing India over to our shores, and when a trip from London to Dublin might be made within 24 hours, it was well known what was the ex-1 tent of steam navigation. If the sympathies of the House were not enlisted in favour of the people—for whom he begged leave to claim its attention—he still felt grateful for the patience with which they had heard him on the subject. Before closing his observations Ile would allude to the state of farm labourers, and those mon who were engaged in public works ; but he begged the House, and he begged her Majesty's Government, not to let the Session pass by without interfering to pre vent their extension. The Birmingham Railway Com pany had this day put on the table a Bill to enable them to raise more money—now he thought it was the duty of that House to ascertain for what the money was wonted- H e believed that On many.lines of Railroad, the coaches had been driven off the neighbouring roads, and at this very moment, none were left in the neigh bourhood of the Railroads, such as run on the Railroad. As much as 3,000/. had been paid to one proprietor by t a h r i a s t road which bought up his interest—in addition to all the grossest impositions were practised—it was only Me other day the when his own servants and those of the offic e er for North Lincolnshire were told at a Railway there was no r oom i n t h e second train, and shey must get into the first, not choosing to do that, they were told to come again to-morrow—they were too late, said unless the law was altered by which these great bo dies was regulated, they would become grevious mono polies. If such was the case at the commencement of these concerns, what might not be expected when they lied lasted some time longer. - He hoped this session would not be allowed to pass without the Chan cellor of the Exchequer bringing forward some measure on the subject, as he had promised ; but if he did not, he would himself bring forward some measure—he did not say that it would make the difference between ruin and prosperity, but he hoped it would contain enactments of service to the public, and instead of being an evil, they would prove one of dee greatest blessings of this eountry. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not surprised at the remarks which had been made ; but at the very time it was his intention in the course of the year to introduce a Bill with a view of remedying the abuses adverted to by the Hon. Member. There were many evils existing which ought to be removed ; at the same time he thorstqlt it proper to say he did not quite accompany his Hon. Friend in many of the state ments he had made. They would sympathise a little more for him than for former times, after what had been stated to-day ; but it was right for him to state that his friend was correct upon two points which he would say were unjust as he had stated them to be and he accompanied him when he was told that they could be remedied by a revision of the laws, but his Hon. Friend mentioned some of the duties to which he adverted, and stated them at t wo high a sum. During the last year he had made a selection exactly: to suit his purpose —anything, might b..aleproved by such selections as those. In speaking of the Poat-horse Duty, he hail mentioned the year 18:37, wh en he said the Post-horse Duty amounted to 4,000/, tint out of a five years' return, he had selected precise]; h tl e is_s .ono whieh be wanted. If he had taken last year re turns have found there was a decrease. The re -101113; were not yet printed. The Hon. Gentleman had (1111aiieb,,iyucci.dalrtrhiaalet,h,ey exhibited any diminution in dutY but they exhibited an isareese in the I'l raiirt,:d the intent 3. by railroads, because on the commencement they were much travelled on. These were new dutir :ens', and notice bad been given that in the Honourable theyAl particular branch would be allowed to remain. The .ember for Falkirk had referred to one wa3si of the Post -office returns. Nothing „ Ises, a, ` n e l tUlotn,ecroes than to generale° from special ‘ w ia, , ding w .s more likely to lead astray. And 1 7sn the else with the Hon. Member for a tea in . steece. The Post-hoise duty in the year just expired, bad, contrary to all anticipations, amounted to a larger sum than in any one of the five 'preceding Sears.—(Hear, hear.) Certainly when it was considered that railway passengers only paid eibout one-eighth of a penny duty, while stage-coach passen gers paid Is. 4d., and post-horse masters Os. 4d a it was clear that such was not a just system of taxation.— ( Hear, hear.) He should therefore propose, as soon as the finances of the year would permit, to intro duce a Bill on the subject.---(Hear.) But let not the House be led astray by the notion, that under any cir cumstances there could be such an extent of coach accommodation as before the establishment of Rail ways.—(Hear.) If there were no duty on the one, and the present amount continued on the other, the velocity of railway travelling would alone secure a greater degree of patronage from the public. At the same time he thought railway competition now was carried beyond, that extent.—(Hear, hear.) He had lately heard for the first time, that the Rail way Companies bad been buying up the existing coaches on their lines,in order to increase the monopoly. Undoubtedly, however, these purchases would be in effectual, if other parties considered they could run coaches on such lines with profit to themselves.— (Hear, hear.) Hon. Gentlemen would be mistaken if, they supposed that the effect of the railways must necessarily be prejudicial to the coaches and post horses. On the contrary, the railways had brought into existence almost as many coaches as they had been the means of putting down.—(Hear.) True, the new conveyances might assume different names—might be called omnibuses, for instance, instead of stage coaches, but no doubt could be entertained that the railways had introduced a great number of new carriages. Let any one travel from London to Birmingham ; and he could be astonished at the im mense number of new vehicles of all descriptions which the railways had called into action.---(Hear, hear.) He well recollected that there had been coach con veyances from Dublin to a place called Black Rock, and when it was suggested that a railway communica tion should be established between those places, it was expected that the result would be the total ruin of the proprietors of those coaches. But exactly the contrary had been the effect produced ; for there had been ac tually more of them since the railway was formed.— The Hon. Member for Falkirk had made some observa tions as to the conduct of the railway proprietors or of individual companies. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) knew that abuses must exist in all such large establishments, especially in their infancy, but he believed there was every disposition on the part of the railroad proprietors—and it was their interest—to provide adequate accommodation for the public. The House had last year interposed with respect to post communication by railways, and doubtless would again, if necessary.—( Hear, hear.) He was ready to enter more fully into the question—but lie thought the Hon. Member for Falkirk would see that his objecamight best be attained by leaving the subject in the hands of the Goyernrre t. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would introduce a Bill on the subject, in the course of the present year. He would not, however, promise that it would be entirely satisfactory to the Honourable Member, but if it were not, its provisions could be best discussed when they were before the House.—(Hear, hear.) He would just remark, before he sat down, upon the form of the Hon. Member's motion. If a notice were to be given at all, it ought F 0 to be framed as give every Hon. Member notice of what measure was to be proposed. Now the Hon. Member, on this and on other occasions, had fallen into a most incon venient practice, which had lately become too common —of giving a notice, which was rather a blind than a guide, that is merely that " the at tention of the House would be called to a cer tain subject." It was most important on all occasions, and particularly with regard to financial mat ters, that. full notice should be given of the precise mea sure that was to be proposed.—(Hear.) Mr. WARBURTON said, if the object of the mo tion were to reduce the duty on post-horses and stage coaches, in order to place them on an equality with railroads and steam-boats, it would have met, perhaps, the general concurrence of the House. But, when the object was, however disguised, to place additional taxes on railroads and steam-boats, he hoped the parties in• terested would take the alarm. When gas lights were first introduced, the Government applied to Sir Joseph Banks; to know if there were any objections to them on account of danger occurring to the public, &c. But the shrewd old gentleman advised them to allow the gas-lights to go on, because they would one day be come a subject of taxation—(A laugh)—and that was a conclusive reason with the Chancellor of the Ex chequer of that day. Fortunately it was, that the gas lights were then exempted from the blighting influence of taxation and inspection which were once proposed, just as they were now suggesting with regard to steam boats and railways. What a vast improvement took place in these modes of conveyance every year. "This year communication was established by steam from the Th axles to Plymouth ; next year the communica tion will have extended to the Atlantic, and there was no bound to the improvement which might yet take place, if- they remained unfettered and untaxed ; but if once the Chancellor of the Exchequer stepped in, there was an end to all improvement.—(Hear, and laughter.) What the Chancellor of the Exchequer's plan of equa lizAtion would be on this subject, of course he (Mr. Warburton) could not tell ; but certainly every argu ment was in favour of a reduction of the duties on coaches and post-horses, inasmuch as the cheapening of travelling by reducing the duties a l wa y s h a d t h e e ff ect of increasin g the tr,e, and thereby augmenting the revenue.—( Hear.) And let not the country gentlemen, who no doubt were afraid of a diminution in the consump tion of oats, consider it their interest to place obstacles in the way of railway communication,.for by so diminishing ravelling, they would defeat their own object. He :Mr. Warburton) hoped that the parties interested in railways would have their vigilance excited by theinti- Illation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; and he hoped that the House of Commons would not support that Right Hon. Gentleman in his endeavour to place railroad-travelling under new taxation.---( Hear, hear.) Mr. HUME said he thought this subject ought not to be dismissed without understanding from the Chan cellor of the Exchequer whether he intended to place additional duties on railroads, or whether the Right Hon. Gentleman was not prepared to effect an assimi lation, by reducing the stage-coach and post-horse duties. It was bad policy to tax the means of internal commu nication—( Hear, bear)—and why was it the Chan cellor of the Exchequer could not reduce the duties on conveyances ?—.because he had not funds enough, owing to the heavy expenses incurred by the misgovern ment of Canada. It was not possible to calculate the advan tages which would result to commerce, to manufactures, and to agriculture, by the speedy and cheap communica tion furnished by railroads. But more important still were the beneficial effects which would be produced upon the social system of the country at large.—(Hear, hear.) And Government, so far from increasing, ought to take every possible means for diminishing the taxa tion on railroad communication.—(Hear.) Mr. EASTHOPE said he could not think the Chan cellor of the Exchequer entertained theintention ofincrea sine- tbe already very heavy taxation upon Railroads; but if there was such an intention, surely the Right Ho nourable Gentleman would deem it right to make a spc • cific declaration upon the subject as early as possible. Mr. H. HINDE was glad to hear, from the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, that he had directed his atten tion to the subject. The Honourable Gentleman (we believe, but he spoke in a very inaudible - tone), -ex , pressed his hope that a reduction would take place in the taxation on the means of conveyance, Sir R. BATESON said it was important that some regulation should take place with respect to steam vesstlF; the proprietors would run to the last moment, that their machinery would last without breaking. It was the feeling in seaport towns that there should be some system of general inspection, so as to insure the safety of those persons who embarked in these vessels. Sir R. PEEL bad made it a rule, to which be in ended to adhere, not to consent to a reduction of taxation until be knew the state of the revenue, and the amount of the national demand ; nor could he consent to the reduction of a particular tax, till he bad an opportunity of comparing it with others—for instance, what was said of the cotton manu facture? He might be desirable to reduce a certain tax, but he should like to compare it with the policy of taking off the tax on raw cotton. It could not be doubted but there would be competing claims of other taxes- for reduction—(Hear.) He believed the only satisfactory way of settling this question would be by taking off the duty altogether upon post-horses. (Cheers.) There would then be a fair competitio n be tween railways and other modes of conveyance, which must take their chance of suffering by the improvements. wEich took place ; that would stand on some intelligible principle ; but suppose it should turn out that the country could not afford to lose this duty, they would then have to consider whether any attempt at equali zation could ba made. He would rot pronounce an opinion on the subject, but he thought it would bo found exceedingly difficult to make any compensation to the possessors of post-horses for the losses they might sustain. Before they were called on to decide that lie trusted the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be able tq give them the fullest information on the sub ject. For instance—that they might see the lines of road on which the Post-horse duty had fallen off, and where it had increased, that they might attempt to as certain how far the railway communication had dimiminished th e P os t-h orse d uty in certain districts, and h ow f ar i t h a d tended to in . rrease it others. The Ch ance P or of the Exchequer said it was in vain to attempt to make such anarrangement as should enable, on the great lines of road, the Postmaster to contend with the Railroads. He (Sir Robert Peel), was afraid that they could do nothing for the Postmaster. Suppose they reduced the duty from 3d. to I Id., and put ld. on the Railroad, they would be doing no benefit to the Postmaster on the line, but subjectin g the Railway to an a4ditional charge. I _(Cheerg.) The Chancello r of the Excliequ-r had said, with respect to the Post-horse duty, the deficiency on the great lines was made up by the collateral lines of communication. So far as these were concerned, the duty had been called into existence by the railway, and did not want any equa lization there.' It would be important also to consider how far the facility which railways afforded tended to increase consumption—there might be a great addi tional consumption of exciseable articles—( Hear, hear)—and they must also consider whether a new system of taxation bore unequally on some articles.— (Hear, hear.) With respect to those who were in a low condition of life, it was impossible to estimate what advantage was derived by the rapid transition of labour from one part of the country to another.— (Cheers.) The upper classes of society were concerned principally in the post-horse duty. Now, it would re quire great consideration before subjecting rail ways and steam-boats to new taxation.—(Hear, hear, hear.) They must first consider whether the new communication had not been serviceable to the revenue, and take care before they attempted to give compensation that they were not injuring the revenue. —( Hear, hear.) Major HANDLEY wished to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether an increase in the Post-horse duty had not taken place since it had been taken into the hands of Government. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought it could not be attributed entirely to that, al though the charge might harp had a tendency to increase the duty, but putting an end. to vexatious pfosecutions. Mr. GILLON briefly replied and withdrew his motion. ENFRANCHISEMENT OF COPYHOLDS. Mr. JAMES STEWART moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the 'enfranchisement of landS of copyhold and customary tenure. It was not his intention to tres pass at any length on the House, inasmuch as similar Bills had been brought in in four preceding sessions. It was generally admitted that the principle of suet] a Bill was desirable, the only question being how far such prin ciple should be carried out. The Bill •of last session had been referred to a Select Committee, which had almost unanimously come to a very important report, for it went to the entire abolition of that species of tenure. The present measure was brought with the full concurrence of her Majesty's Attorney. General and many Hon. Members on the Other side of the House Indeed be was yet to learn where opposition was to conic from. He would not, therefore diseifss the ques tion now, but reserve himself until the Bill had been printed. Leave was then given to britig in the Bill. THE STADT DUTIES. Mr. M. PHILLIPS presented a petition from the Merchants of Manchester, complaining of the injury to British interest by Stadt Duties, imposed by the Kin g of Hanover. Mr.H UTT, on bringing under consideration the motion of which he had given notice, namely, the injury inflicted on British commerce by the duties levied at the town of Stadt by the King of Hanover, hoped the House would give him its attention, not on his own account, but on account of the subject itself. It was of very .great importance to the commerce of that country, for it related to the outrages and oppression which had been carried on by the King of Hanover in levy ing the Stadt Duties. As that subject might be less familiar to many Hon. Members then local circumstances had rendered it to him, he trust , d the House would allow him to explain briefly the nature and origin of these duties. It was not necessary to travel far back for that purpose. At the Congress of Vienna, in 1815, a claim was preferred by the King of Hanover, to levy upon all ships and cargoes, passing the toxn of Stadt, in the river Elbe, certain tolls and dues. Among many other most pernicious actions of that Congress, the claim on the- part of the King of Hanover was admitted and ssnctioned by a treaty. The details of these duties were referred to a Convention. held in 1831, at the city of Dresden. On that occasion the Ministers Plenipotentiary admitted the right of the King of Hanover to levy those dues, but re quired that he should submit a tariff of those dues be intended to levy. The Kiog of Hanover formally pledged himself to lay before the Convention a tariff of the dues, and pledged himself never to in crease them without the consent of the parties interested. Such was a brief history of the origi n and obj,ct of tht Stadt dues. For these advantages received e i s n b t a n d at be u e n r; principled manner, no pri v il eges or i i granted by him. All the arrangements for the naviga turn of the river,, being made by the city of Hamburgh. The Stadt duties were to be collected not on the vessels dell countries. There was an invidious, and so far a: Great Britain was concerned, a most injurious distinc tiou between the flags of Hamburgh, and Hanover, and that of Great Britain. He (Mr. Hutt) never could reflect on the conduct of the Minister, who, for the pur pose of increasing the King's private revenue, bad inflicted so serious a blow upon the commerce of that country, without indignation and dis gust. There, however, was the treaty ; and deep! ) as they might lament the subserviency that had given rise to it, they were bound to ob serve the faith of treaties, and without adequate grounds they could not propose its abolition. if the King of Hanover ccr,.ld establish the right, under tht treaty of Vienna, to exact those duns ; it. would be on just and impolitic on the part of - England to ask fol their abolition. lie (Mr. Hutt) complained that the King of Hanover had infringed the treaty of Vienna, and he thought, before he sat down, lie would establish. to the satisfaction of the House, that his Majesty, the first place, was not content with the extraordinarl concessions made to him by a British Minister. He had exacted a far higher rate of tolls than the convention of Dresden had ever authorized him. He had treated the British 11 ig in the most arbitrary and vexatious manner, because they had not given a blind submission to the orders of his Custom house officers ; and if he did not state the particular s to the House, it was only because he feared they would scarcely give him credit for the recital. He bad said that the King of Hanover had pledged himself to pro duce, through his Plenipotentiaries at Dresden, a copy of the tariff of the duties which he intended to levy on shipping passing - the Stadt. But no such docu ment had been brought before the assembled Pleni potentiaries—or, if ever it was produced, it was surreptitiously extinguished. During the time that he had been the Representative of Hull—a town which was most deeply interested in this question— he had used every pains to procure a copy of the docu ment in question. He had asked for it at Hanover, but the tariff was not to be had there ; he had asked for it at the - FOreign Office, but it was not there ; he had asked for it at- the office of "the President of the Board of Trade, but it was not there ; he had asked for it from the British merchants generally, but they knew nothing of it, except that they were obliged to pay heavy under its alleged provisions. He believed there was little doubt that the tariff had had no existence whatever, but was merely an act of' the individual will and pleasure of the Sovereign of Hanover. Such being the case, it was pretty clear that the King of Hatiover had not fulfilled one portion of the contract in virtue of which the right to levy duties had been conferred upon him. But he (Mr. H.) had said that the King of Han over had levied higher rates of duties than he was warranted by the Convention of Dresden. He would admit that not having documents he could not adduce direct proofs of this, but he had the strongest presump tive evidence. He could show that since the year 1821, those duties had been continually varying, but always increasing in 'amount ; and that in the year ! 1837 and 1838 the demands were much heavier than in 1821 and 1822. He could show further,that on the same articles, duties differing to a most extraordinary amount had been exacted according as these had been entered in the s'lip's papers, in the German or English larguages. He would not refer to English merchants, who might naturally be regarded as prejudiced on this point ; but he would prove it on evidence that was above suspicion ; namely, a pamphlet published within a few weeks, by Dr. Adam Sobier, a most respectable citizen of Hamburgh. TLe Doeter showed that there was rigorous preciseness in the system of duties : the pay ment not being enforced according to the natu re o f t h e articles, but a ccor di ng to the wording of the invoices. For instance, if the word " bales" appeared in the in voice of a shipment, twice as much duty was charged as if the word were in German. Toys had to pay six times more or less duty as they were entered in the English or German vocabulary. He was sure the Noble Lord, the Secretary for the Foreign Depart. ment, must have had numerous complaints in illustration of the system. He had no doubt the Noble Lord could corroborate him (Mr. Hutt). After this expositio n of the manifold taxation inflicted on the British merchants, lie was sure the House would come to the same conclu sion with him, that the King of Hanover bad levied duties which he was not justified in exacting, either by the Treaty of Vienna, or ti• e:anvention of Dresden. But this was not all. The manner of levying those duties in vo l ve d a d e l ay an d expense f ar more injurious to the British merchant than the amount of taxation. It would be rembered that the town Stadt was on the river Elbe, in the same relation to Hamburgh as Wool wich on the Thames was to London. Every vessel sailing up to Hamburgh was obliged to come to at a castle near Stadt. The captain was obliged to go on shore and deliver his papers to the custom-house officers of the King of Hanover, and the officer then transmitted them to Hambur,eli. The vesiel then pro ceeded on her voyage, and upon her arrival at Ham burgh a most careful examination of her cargo was in stituted, and .if the slightest discrepancies were disco ered between the articles on board, as named in the bill of lading, and as found in the packages, the ship was liable to be seized, detained, fined, or even confiscated. The cap tain who had said he had an anchor " wide was found to have m i srepresented, though he protested it was un intentionally. Hi s s hi p was nevertheless seized, nor was " she released until he had paid a considerable fine. He had another evidence, from a quarter of the highest re spectability—it was from Mr. 'Potty, of Hull, to whose high and honorable character the Noble Lord, the Mem ber for the West Riding, could bear testimony, as could also several other honourable members.—(Hear, hear.) Tilat gentleman shipped a bale of 900ibs. of worsted EU ING EDITION,--FEBRUARY 22, 183? yarn, and also a few pounds of linen yarn, in Ai:frilliest. The ship was seized at Hamburgh at the lea that the the linen bad been ()Shifted in th e invoice. There.avas not the slightest remission of duty on account of the oinis-ion ; nevertheless the ship was seized, and a large fine had to be paid before she was released. In another - case a fine of 221. 15s. was inflicted on account of a misnomer, which was not the cause of the slightest less to the Revenue. Those facts would show that the Government of Hano ver had inflicted a series of wanton injuries on British trade, and had dishonoured the British flag, and that the King of Hanover had violated the Treaty of Vienna, and the pledges he made to the Convention of Dresden. How long, he would ask, was this system to continue? If he were to examine the area of the world, from China to Peru, in order to discover the Sovereign that was most bound to treat this country with kindness and lenity, he should say that Sovereign was the King of Hanover—( Hear, hear)—not merely was he so bound on account of his British birth, not merely on the score of his near connection with the Crown of Great Britain, but on the score that he re ceived annually from the people of this country the sum of 20,000/.—(Hoar, hear.) Had these; disgraces been heaped upon us by any remote and uncivilized people, we should long ago have set ourselves right, even though forced to do so at the mouth of our cannon : he anytneet with th e su p por t o f Heer, h ear. ) H e truste d , peculiar favour Was due tt s ho h e o t r u be l ef t 01 King t t h o oa ft ae o n w osvne w or i u i p y r the House in the resolution he was about to pro pose. The Honourable Gentleman concluded by moving a resolution censuring the conduct of the Hanoverian Government in levying dues on B r iti s h vessels at the town of St a d t , and stating that foreign Powers ought not to be permitted to levelduties injurious to British commerce until their right to do so bad been clearly and fully made out and recognised. Lord PALMEItSTON said that the case brought :oc his time lie Friend en state en eo this hntipso these i a e subii tl n s i te e i House . before the House by hi s H on. Friend appeared to af ford good ground of c om pl a i nt against the Hanoverian ,rechotau dts iet,n that t ihe Government.s t l t h n a e o t state the r o ia ttil n ol en exactG samefor n n in ground s lin levying duties exceeded th e i r rights he was afraid was more than cou:d be admitted. But that they had levied them in a vexatious and arbitrary manner —that they had been guilty of a capricious exercise of the power with which !hey were invested, constituted in his (Lord Pal :nerston's) rated just grthind of complaint against that 'Government. He should be glad if the Haeoverian Government possessed no right to levy this toll at Stadt, but no doubt existed as to their right to do - so. No one could say when the levying of this toll first took place, but as early as 1691 a treaty was concluded setween Sweden and Hamburgh, by which Sweden ,:cquired the right of levying those tolls, which, prior to that period, Harnburgh had possessed—end what ever power had retained posseision of the Duchy of Bremen, had always possessed the. right of levying the tolls in question. In 1719, the Duchy of Bremen was celled by Sweden to Hanover : and in 1736 a treaty Nag entered into between England and Hanover, b 1 which English vessels obtained exemption from bein: ' detained at a Hanoverian port, in order to pay toll, but were permitted to proceed at once u . Haniburgh, and to pay the toll after their arrival a, that port. We now came to the treaty of Vienna. The treaty of Vienna contained a provision that rivers traversin g different States, or separating different Siate.s, should be free to the commerce of all nations, subject to tolls, the nature and collection of which should be regulated by a convention consisting. of Plenipotentiaries from the different States situated on the banks of the river, and all the other powers were bound to acquiese in the tolls which should be established by the Convention. With regard to the navigation of the Elbe, a Convention was appointed in accordance with this article of the Treaty of Vienna. The Plenieritenti o-ies met at Dresden in the year 1821, es.l - ia • tl been mentioned by his Hon. Ftiend, and the Convention agreed to a statement of the tolls, which should continue to be levied ; he apprehended, therefore, that there could be no doubt as to the right of the Government of levying tolls—on the other hand we had a right to re quire that the tolls should be the same as were agreed on by the convention of 1821; that no arbitrary augmen tation of the tolls should take place, and that there Arnold be .no capricious application of the provisions if the Convention of 1821. Thus, however much we :night wish that we had the right to demand the abolition of these tolls, every fact afforded eaidence hat we did not possess that right. Complaints had `teen made to the Government of this country, from the year 1825, of the existence of the abuses in the levy -ng of this toll. A correspondence took place on this :object between the Governments of Great Britain and Hanover, prior to the year 1830. After the change of Government which took place in the year 1830, com plaints continued to be made of the conduct of the Ha noverian Government in levying these tolls ; and a cor respondence with that Government still continued. A communication was opened with a representative of the Hanoverian Government in this country, and with the Hanoverian Government itself, in order to investigate she foundation for these charges, and to obtain redress. "rhe first object we lied in view, was to get possession of the tariff. Mr. HUTT—What tariff? Lord PALMERSTON—The tariff of the duties ;cried by the Hanoverian Government at Statile That we had at length obtained - ; it had been referred to our Charge d'Affairs at Hanover, who was well acquainted with this subject, for his observations thereon. He had not yet returned it, but it was expected back daily. Her Majesty's Government had also applied for copies of the reguletions'issued :by: the :Hanoverian Govern ment for the government of its Custom-house officers in the levying of these duties. When we get poisession of this document we shall be enabled to compare the regulations with the practice of levying these dues at' present existing, and form a proper judgment as to the extent of the abuse complained of. This was the state of the case as regarded the British Government ; they . were still in correspondence with the Hanover:an Go ernment with a view of obtaining redress. He could assure the House the British Government had not been neglectful of its duty as regarded this subject, and that it would lose no time in obtaining every redress the case demanded.—( Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances he felt that the House would depart from its usual course if it adopted the resolution of his Hon. Friend, and the more so as in moving this resolution he seemed to cast a doubt on the right of the King of Hanover to evy this toll, of the existence of which right there could be no doubt ; he would therefore move the previous question, and hoping that his Honourable Friend would feel convinced that the Government of this country was using its best endeavours to set itself right on this question, he trusted he would not object to suffer this amendment to be carried. Mr. WHITE protested, on behalf of the ship owners of Sunderland, against their- being obliged to pay these dues at Stadt, when Hanoverian ships paid here only the low rate of duty. He would not allude to the reciprocity Treaties, which worked very une qually for British ships. If the King of Hanover con tinued this conduct we ought to retaliate on him b 3 le,yying a higher rate of duty on Hanoverian shipping. He should support the motion of his Hon. Friend. Mr. HUTT did not intend to oppose the proposition of the Noble Lord, but he trusted the House would indulge him while he made a few remarks on the speech of the Noble Lord. He would leave the matter with great confidence in his hands, because he thought, after the proofs that the House bad received of the interest he took in the commercial affairs of the country, he could not leave it in better hands. There was one ob servation of the Noble Lord which he must advert to. He could not agree with him, that the King of Hanover had performed his part of the contraet—hc had not produced the tariff; and by that means, in his (Mr. Hutt's) opinion, he had vitiated the contract. It would, however, be pressing the rights of this country to an extreme point to insist upon it ; and the course, there fore, he should propose would be, that having ascer tained what the tariff of 1821 really was or, what he would infinitely prefer having ask/oiled, the t ar iff of 1791, they sh ou ld cons id er th best means of getting rid of this pernicious duty. He trusted that this course would be followed by the present Cabinet, as it was impossible for him to exaggerate the feelings of an noyance his constituents entertained in consequence of the continuance of these duties. The Hon Member concluded by withdrawing his Friction. COPYRIGHT OF DESIGNS. Mr. P. THOMPSON in rising to move for leave to introduce two B.IIs relating to the copyright of designs, stated that he considered it necessary to make a short statement to the House. In the reign of George the Third, an Act had passed with respect to tl:c copyright incalico • Bill assigned to the calico prin ter printing—that the benefiit of his particular print for three months after the period of its first issuing from his warehouse. At that time there was no printing except upon calico— there was no printing of the description usually em ployed upon calico. Since that time, however, a con siderable amount of printing bad taken place of a dif ferent description. That Act applied only to England ; it,did not extend to Ireland ; and the calico printing in that count r y was carried on to a considerable extent-- was frequently extensively pirated. Now e hat he pro posed by the first Bid ayes to extend the calico. printing Act, as it existed in this country, to Ireland ; and next to extend the provisions of the -calico printing Act to other woolle n fabrics as well as calicoes. The other Bill was cute upon the same subject, but of a great deal m ore importa nce . Th e House was no doubt well aware that the subject of patents, and patents,e subject of for patt terns and inventions, was frequentlyl discussion in that House—(Hear, hear)—but more particularly they were the subjects of discussion in Committees up stairs. It was not his intention to meddle with the Patent Act—but it always appeared to him that there was great difficulty' in securing pa tents for inventions. The Patent Act applied princi pally to scientific inventions—it had always appeared to him that there was wanting in those Acts a pro tection for mere designs—designs in these articles o f which a s h ort and sesepo-ra ry proteciion would be sufficient. Such being tire cast' he thought p to it was desirable to extend the ordinary Patent laws to. those articles ; and what he proposed, therefore, was, *ithiiiit Meddling ifith the Patent-laws, to eStablish an office in London where parties shotild base the tipper tunity; if they thought fit, of entering their designs that hating entered those designs, the piny entering should have the privilege, for a certain time,--say six or twelve months,—of enjoying the sole property in those designs, and the articles upon which those de signs were placed. He did not propose to rieder it compulsory that parties should enter their designs, all he wished was to give them an opportunity of doing so they thought fit ; he therefore proposed by his Bill that a Commissioner should be appointed by the Board of Trade, who should have an offlee of the kiid he stated. He proposed that that Commissioner should be paid togo!ther with the other officers under him from fees arieiog from the designs which should be entered. No expense would therefore be cast upon the puhlic.— (Hear, from Colonel Sibthorp.) But the parties who wished to take advantage of the institution of the - office, for recording their designs, should pay all the experpes. There were a variety of different artieles to which the establishment of this office would he of great advantage. It had been shown before Commit tees up stairs that there were a number of articles made, the design of which had taken great time and labour, which bad been pirated before the article for which the design was made had found its way into the market— he had seen articles, particularly in glass, and wire, and grapes, for which, perhaps, 20/., 301, 50/., or 100/. had been given for the design, and before the party who had purchased the design had brought the article into the market, the design had been copied by somebody- 4 0s°, and he had no opportunity of receiving the benefit to which he was justly entitled—the first sale of the article; that was a course which parties had a right to complain of. He thought that a fair time ought to be allowed to parties to enjoy their designs. The particular articles to which he had alluded, differed materially from calico-printing, or the printing upon other woven goods. In those articles there was what was called a publication—the condition attached to the copyright was, that at the end of every piece the num ber of yards, the name of the manufacturer, and the date of the printing, were to be attached. Consequently, in those articles nothing more was necessary than those marks, because they denoted the time of publi, ation, and the duration for which the privilege ought to run ; but that was not the case in the otlier class of articles to which he alluded, and therefore a registry there was absolutely necessary. The calico-printers, he believed, were satisfied with the present system, and Considered a re gistry totally unnecessary, but in the other articles, which must from their nature be merely tempor iry, it was im possible to place upon them stay marks of publication, consequently a registry became necessary, and by the Bill it was provided that a registry should he adopted. If the provisions of the Bill were taken advantage of, well and good—if not things would go on as they were at present. He believed he had now briefly explained what the objects of the Bills were : he had been informed that they were likely to do great good, and he trusted therefore that the House tvould allow him to introduce them.—Leave was then given to bring in both Bills. THE EARL OF DURHAM'S EXPENSES. Colonel SIBTHORP rose to move for a return of the total expense incurred with reference to the appoint ment of the Earl of Durham as High Commissioner and Governor-General of Canada, distinguishing the amount of salaries' paid or to be paid to Lord Durham, and each officer or other person employed in or connected with the said Commission ; also, stating the expense of the outfit of the Governor-General and suite, and all other persons, as well during their residence in Canada as on their return to this country. If he had found that no ex pense had been entailed on the country, he should not have brought forward the present motion. He had read a statement made in another place, that the Noble Earl meant to pay a large portion of these expenses out of his private purse—that, he had been a loser to the amount of 10,0061. Tiost mig be very true, but it inigLt apply only to the gew.gaws, and such knacks of that high and princely station. What he (Colonel Sibthorp) wanted to know was the expenses charged to the country for the Noble Earl's most expensite and unfortunate mission ? He almost doubted the Noble Earl's intention, when he found in the Court Contin gencies of 1835 the following items :—Outfit end equipage of the Earl of Durham, on proceeding as Ambassador to the Emperor of Russia in 1834, 4,000/. Then there was another item for the entertainment and conveyance of the Countess of Durham on board her Majesty's ship Cleopatra, 176/.—(Great laughter.) Another item was an entertainment given on board her, Majesty's ship Borham, 1871. Then there was the conveyance from St. Petersburg, and thence to Constantinople and Odessa, 200/. ; and a balance of 191. 2s. 7d.—(Hear, and much laughter,) When lie found all these items paid for by the Government, he had. some right to question whether the Noble Earl had lost 10,000/. by his mission, or whether that sum would cover all the expenses to which he had put the Government of that country. Last year they had had a retura of the expenses incurred in fitting up the Hastings to convey his Lordship to Ca nada, and they amounted to 573/. Why was not that paid by the Noble Earl, if he WaS so pttriotie and independent ? Nay, the word " Commissioner" was not enough for him, although Commissions were man r expensive things, ane had cost that country a million and a half of money. Thd word Commissioner would not do; they must have " Lord High Commissioner," a sort of Jupiter tonans—( Great laughter)—with a staff of military secretary, principal aid dc-camp, and half a-dozen other aid-de-camps, all of whom, lie believed, discharged their duty very efficiently. Then there was a legal adviser, the lion. Member for Liskeard, and he also must have been paid, for lie had never found a legal gentleman working for nothing.—( Hear, end a laugh.) That was a rara axis in terris that he had never met with. He wanted to know who appointed all these gentlemen—what salaries they bad, and what the expense of their outfits had been, with other contingent expenses. It was matter of grave consideration for the House, and be could not see on what grounds an economical Gavel n• ment could refuse it. His return had, he believed, been called a corkscrew return, but he cared not.--a(Laughter.) But he only found mutilated returns. He had strong grounds for suspicion, but it was only for suspicion, for he was kept in the dark by these returns. They must come to it, howev e r, i n t i me. Ia the other Hous e , thi s Commis sion bad formed a subject of conversation ; and various papers had - been moved for, which he consi dered matters of th e fi rst i mportance. He wished the scrutinising eye of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny was uncorked upon this subject, as it was on many others; and be only wished he had moved for papers connected with this subject. He (the Gallant Colonel) should much like to know what were the expenses of this commission. They must all admit that no document could prove more strongly than the letter of the Colonial Secretary, the opinion of Government as to the proposed ex penditure of the Noble Earl. I was found to be an excessive expenditure of the public money; it had been made and allowed by her Majesty's Govern ment; in a matter in which no success bad taken place— where the business was not yet settled—and it would be long before it was settled. When it was found that the Con fidence of the Government was centered in the Gallant General, who might have performed all that was performed, and fully satisfied the public without any additional expen diture at all. Ho should submit the motion, as the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer bad not done it, and take the sense of the House upon it. There would be, perhaps, a return of nil. He did not like these ails—they had too many of them. He then concluded by moving that there be laid upon the table a return of the total ex penses connected with the appointment of the Earl of Durham, as Lord High Commissioner to Canada. (There were some further matters but the notice of mo tion was different from that which appeared on the printed list.) Mr. HUME seconded the motion, not that he concurred in many of the views of the Gallant Colonel, but because he thought it most important the Hon. Member himself should be convinced. It appeared the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had no objection to lay the papers before the House, and therefore he had rather that the whole of the expenses had been included, without, however, going into the personal expenses of the Earl of Durham. Mr. BARRON did not object to this motion, but must object to the constant attacks on the Noble Earl. They were disgraceful. r The SPEAKER warned the Hon. Member, that the application of such a term to any particular person, was utterly unparli-mentary. Mr. BARRON did not so apply it; but he did apply it to the tenour of the remarks made upon the Noble Earl (ol 1 . Durham), and he took that mode of defending the conduct of a Nobleman who had conducted himself on every coca. sion, in his humble opinion, with the strongest feelings of independence and honour—a Nobleman who had distin guished himself on all occasions as the champion of the rights of the people, and on every mission, both public and private, when he came before the people, as one of the greatest ornaments of the age in which ire lived. He con sidered it his duty, and the very best duty of a Reformer, to stand up in defence of so eminent a character. He knew he could not take upon himself to tell any Member that these returns were moved for for the purpose of attack ing the Noble Earl. He knew his situation in this House too well to do that, but he felt it his duty to express him self in the way he had. SIBTHORP begged to ask the Lion. Member who last spoke, if he intended the expression referred to (" disgraceful") to apply to him ? Mr. BARRON stated that he had already said that he did not intend the expression to apply to him. Lord JOHN RUSSELL had no objection to the pro duction of the papers, but they had been moved for in rather a singular way, and in a way not altogether consis tent with common sense. Without imputing any motive but that which he had stated, of merely applying himself to the usages of the public service, it was not to be ex pected that the Earl of Durham, any more than any other person, would go to Canada or Russia, and pay large ex penses out of his own pocket. The Gallant and Honour able Member might propose that persons appointed to such situations, should pay all the expenses themselves, but that would be only saying, none but very ‘Nealthy persns ought to engage - in such offices. In regard to the remarks re- speet4lg Russia, he was allowed a regular outfit, and be thought: the outfit given to the Earl of Durham, was the same as that of any other person, with respect to the Courtess of Durham, there was a sum paid for her accom modation in the ship, which it was not supposed the Earl would be allowed to pay out of his own pocket. If the lion. and Gallant Gt.ntleman would attend to thrse . .... things genera ll y , L c wou ld l ear n to understand them a littl e bt , tter.—( Loud lau, 4 l,ter.) -At at event , , ivlslTd for ellagf's, let him propose them generally—.if he wished for changes, let him propose theta with regard to all Ambassadors and Governors generally, and not throw out impntations against the Earl of Durham that he had incurted more expenses than other persons.—(Cheers.) Whether Lord Durham's appointment was a right one or an improper o'ne s this was not the occasion for the Hon. and Gallant Member to discuss. If he would look to the way in which persons were employed and paid, he Would be sorry to persist in such an attack. With regard to asking for the amount of the expenses attending the ap pointment, lie did not complain, and should be prepared to justify them.—( Cheers.) Colonel SIBTHORP—The Noble Lord has told me about a Want of common sense. He is the last man I should take any instructions from with regard to that— ( Laughter)—and any such imputations on the part of that Noble Lord I shall treat with all that 'sovereign cont.. mpt which the rules of the House will allow me to express.— ( Laughter.) It is unbecoming in any Member of the Go vernment, or any Member of this House, to impute it to me ; and the Noble Lord would have taken good care net to have made that observation out of the House.--( Loud cries of " Order.") The SPEAKER—The lion. and Gallant Member must perceive that that is not a proper expression— (Cheers) —and that he ought to retract it. Colonel SIBT HO RP—I shall be perfectly ready ;Put at the same time lam entitled to ask the Noble Lord to retract that expression. The Noble Lord imputed to me want of common sense—( Loud laughter, and cries of " No")—I so understood the Noble Lord. The SPEAKER—What I object to is the last expres sion of the Gallant Officer, which is that the Noble Lord will not venture to make that observation out of the House. When I heard such an expression as that, it was impera tive on me to interfere.—( Cheers.) Col. SIBTHORPE—I am entitled to some explana tion from the Noble Lord opposite with regard to that ob servation relative to myself. If it had not been for that, no such observation would have fallen from me. I deny that I cast any direct imputation upon the Noble Earl. I spoke of him as a public man, and I am entitled to free dom of speech in this House in questioning the conduct of any public man, but it is not right that the Noble Lord should impute to any Member of this House a want of com mon sense.—( Loud laughter.) The SPEAK ER—I think the Gallant Officer must be mistaken. What I understood the Noble Lnr.i to say was this, that the motion which the Gallant Officer has made is not the same motion as appeared on the printed vctes, -and that the motion as it appeared in the votes was not consistent with common sense or good grammar.—( Cheers and laughter.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was quite ready to agree to any returns connected with the public service, but he did not think the House wou!cl ac company the Hon. Gentleman in saying that any distinc tion ought to be made between the expenses of this corn mission and any other.—( Cheers.) If the Hon. and Gallant Member would move in the usual manner for the usual accounts, they would be laid before the House with out disguise, restriction, or reserve. However he might differ with the Gallant Colonel on this question of Cana dian politics, he could not but consider it improper to raise it upon the question of the number of corks drawn or trumpery expenses incurred by this appointment. He should therefore moved as an amendment, for an account of the expenses incurred by the mission of the Earl of Durham, as Lord High Commissioner and Governor of Canada, dis tinguishing the salaries paid, and all the expenses incur red in the passage of Lord Durham and his suite. Colonel SIBTHO RP said it was important for the House to know how far these returns would contain what he wished to have, and it was ridiculous to say that he had amended his return. Ho was not going to take the returns moved for by the Government, for he had the strongest suspicion of anything that emanated from them. He could not consent to any returns of that kind. The Right Hon. Gentleman would perhaps be verb glad that many returns of that sort should not be made. How ever be should have his return or no return at all.— ( Great laueliter.) If it was negatived he would put in another. lie certainly would not have the Right Hon. Gentleman's return shuffled in upon his, more especially as he was rather attacking the Right Hon. Gentleman than the Earl of Durham. He had never been indebted to her Majesty's present Ministers for anything, and they were the last set of men he would ever ask to teach him any thing. Mr. H. El IND E did not attach much importance to the return in either shape, but Le would be glad to know from the Right Hon. Gentleman what difficulty there could be in furnishing the return. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER be lieved that the return he had made would comprehend all the Honourable and Gallant Member required. He had refused nothing which had been granted with respect any similar mission, and he did not think it right to deviate from the usual course on the present occasion. If any fault was found with the return or any objection raised to it, then it would be competent for the Hon. Member to brirg the subject before the House. Ha had given neither more nor less than had been granted in similar cases. lie was ready, if' the return was found incomplete, to give every possible information in his power. Lord DUNGANNON suggested to his Hon. and Gal lant Friend to accede to the amendment. Athough he did not think the Noble Earl's mission should be placed upon a par with others, he hoped the present return would be found satisfactory, and if not, it was competent to his Hon. Friend to bring the question again before the House. Colonel SI BTH 0R P would not press his motion, al though he would repeat be had no faith whatever in the re turn of the Right Hon. Gent. opposite. The motion was then withdrawn, and the amended re turn agreed to. CHARITABLE COMMISSIONS (IRELAND). Mr. BARRON bad given notice of a motion - for leave V) bring in a Bill for the appointment of Charitable Com missioners in Ireland ; but as he understood the subject had been taken up by her Majesty's Government, he would beg leave to withdraw it. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS (IRELAND). The Hose Mesona then proceeded to bring forward his motion for a Bill to consolidate and reform the Ecclesi astical Courts in Ireland. He read the following extract from the Report of some Irish Commission :—" Our at tention has been directed in a peculiar manner to the offi cial and professional services connected with these Eccle siastical Courts. The general impression is that the ex pense of the proceedings in the different ecclesiastical jurisdictions, compared with the superior Courts of Common Law, is unreasonable, and that this im. pression, as applied to the Prerogative Court, is in great measure well founded, the evidence sufficiently proves. These evils may perhaps partly be attributed to the abuses of official practice, and the excesses in official and professional charges; but there are other causes in herent in the very form and constitution of the jurisdiction itself, to which they must primarily be attributed. The proceedings are conducted on the principles of the civil law, and therefore enhance the expense. The length of the pleadings, the multiplicity of interrogatories, the mode of examination—frequently inefficient in eliciting the truth— tend to an accumulati. n of expense from which the pro ceedings at Common Law arc exempt. We feel ourselves warranted in laying these statements before the Legislature to show how much the subject is en titled to their serious attention." The Hon. Member said his attention had for three years been directed to this question, and he had procured the appointment of a Com mittee of that House upon it last session. That Com mittee, of which he, was the Chairman, had found the ex pense and delay of the proceedings in these Courts moat oppressive ; and consistently with the recommendations of the Committee, and with the suggestions of the Com missioners, that Bill had been prepared (by the highest legal authorities), which he now begged leave to introduce. The Bill was similar in its provisions to the measure which had been brought in by the Learned Member for the Tower Hamlets (Dr. Lushington) in regard to the Ecclesiastical Courts of England. The object of its enactment was first, to consolidate into one court all the minor teclesiastical courts in Ireland, which were at present established in every diocese in that country. Since the law upon tithes had been altered in Ireland, these courts had none of that tithe business, which formerly was their principal occupation, so that now they were utterly useless. The Judges in those courts were clergvmen,wbo had no knowledge of the law, and theßill would enact that there should be but one ecclesiasti cal Court in Ireland—the Prerogative Court of Dublin. The Supreme Judge in that Court would be appointed by the Crown, as the Judges of this country were. The Judge would have the power of framing rules for the regu. lation of the Court, and also to call in the aid of a jury to try matters of fact. He trusted that the Primate of Ire land would not give any opposition to the Bill which he now proposed to bring in. Lord MORPETH would not offer any obstacle to the Bill, after the great pains that had been bestowed upon it by his Hon. Friend. He trusted that its details would receive great attention, not only from the House, but the Hon. Members for Cashel and Clonmel. He hoped that his Friend would not press on the subsequent stages of the Bill until the House had had a full opportunity of making itself acquainted with the details of the measure. Mr. LE FRO Y did not anticipate that the Noble Lord would have given his assent to the Bill, considering the object it had in view. What was that object ? Why, not only to make a revolution in the whole course of proceedings in the Ecclesiastical Courts of Ireland, but to rob of his right of patronage the head of the Church of that country. He thought, if such a Bill was to be intro duced, it ought to have been brought forward by her Ma jesty's Government. He should, therefore, enter his pro test against the measure, and be felt convinced that the end of the matter would be, that her Majesty's Government would themselves feel compelled, at a future stage, to give their determined opposition to the measure. Dr. STOCK supported the Bill, considering that i would be of essential service in Ireland. Dr. LUSHINGTON did not think that his Hon. and Learned Friend opposite exactly apprehended all the cir cumstances of the case. He did not mean to enter into a particular relation of all the facts connected with the Etig lish Eecclesiastical Commission. He would merely re mind the House that that Commission had been ap pointed by the Duke of Wellington, in 1828. That referred to bad received the sanction of the successive Ali, nistries ; had been acceded to by many Bishops and other high ecclesiastical authorities. That no important difference of opinion had taken place on the subject, and with regard to the matter refereed to they were all agteed. Bills founded on the recommendations of the Commissioners had from time to time been introduced, one in particular by the Government of Lord Grey. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Lambeth had also taken up the subject, It was not quite corr ec t t o state that the measures had failed from the opposition given to them. The real state of the care was this—a measure founded upon these recom mendations had been introduced into the House of Lords and there was this difficulty felt respecting it: the Bishops were of opinion that it should be preceded by a clergy dis cipline Bill. A measure of this sort had been introduced, hut had not passed the House of Lords. With respect to the patronage he would just state, that, having waited on the Archbishop of Canterbury to submit to that Right Reverend Prelate a measure the effect of which was to depiive that Right Rev. Prelate of patronage to. the amount of 10,000/. n-year, his Grace had said, " Give me ten mi. nwes to consider of it ;" et end of the ti , n o-;inw,-s, t xpri.‘ss-.:sd hirns - •if perfectly v.-Ay to give up the -N-,(1,1c, ( t b e e h m e s e e r l s y ) e — s i a n n d t b ever esa m y e one n o o f e t r h . ( B L i s o h o o d p s o b h o a e d r n o g : . was perfectly c onv i nce d o f th e necess i ty o f some 8 11 c ,1 ! measure for Ireland. He was p er f ec tly sa ti s fi e d that unti l some reform took place in the E cc l es i as ti ca l Courts of tha t country—until a consolidation of th ose Cp u rts, and I SUP' pression of the minor juri s dicti on t oo k pl ac e, that a ses sion would never pass witho u t c o mpl a int on this subject.. It was impossible that persons n o t b roug ht up to the 10% 1 profession, whatever might be their determination to d their duty, could so deliver their j u d gmen is as to secure the confidence of suitors in that Cou r t. Mr. SHAW said that the objecti o n which his Righ t Hon. Friend had made bad not been met by the Hon . p ) ress fl ed o and Learned Gentl e m a n who had just sat down. The objection of his Right Hon. Friend was, that this measure had not been brought forward in such a manner as to chum m th e e m s b u e p r po o r f t boefrthe Majesty'sHouse,Government. w With re spect t: the last matter menti on ed by th e H e n. And Learn ed " Gentlemen, it appeared th a t th e meas ure • bad as not broug htforward by submitted to the Archbishop of Canterbury. He eteo u ld like to know whether an y suc h course h a d been pursue on the present occasion ? and with all due defer: ence to the Honourable Gentleman he did not tbinl the measure bad been b roug ht f orwar d in a way to mee t ' with the concurrence either of the House or of the parties concerned. Had it ever been brought before the Prelates of Ireland who were so deeply concerned in the subjec t? He considered that the Noble Lord, the Secretary for Ireland, entertained a somewh a t s i m il ar o bjection, at least so he interpreted the expression of anxiety Ina" use of by the Noble Lord with regard to the Pre sence of the Solicitor- General for Ireland, " h 0 had been so short a time a Member of that House. If the Hon. Gentleman would agree to place his Bill IA the bands of the Government, then he (Mr. Shaw) would have no objection to agree to it ' • and he believed that the Noble Lord (Morpeth) would be nothing loath to t alcs charge of it. This was a measure which required very great care and deliberation, and however competent the lion. Gentleman might be in other questions, it could IT. be disputed that he should have had the ample materiel,' and the extensive professional experience that would be necessary in one bringing forward a Bill for effecting total change in the Ecclesiastical Courts in Ireland. AS the Bill in the case of the Charity Comnoissionel was left in the hands of th e G overnme nt, he di not see why this measure al so s h ou ld no t. If t he measure was lett in the hands of her Majesty's Go vernment, he (Mr. S.) had no doubt that it would receive the most careful and extensive preliminary consideratio n. In that case, also, it would have a better chance of soci cess. He was also of opini on , th a t a new arr angemec, of the Diocesan Courts of E ng l an d, m i g h t b e i n troduced with great benefit. Mr. GRATTAN would net agree with the doctrine of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Shaw), that everything should be left in the hands of her Majesty's Government'. If this Bill was bad, let it fall—if it were good, why should it not succeed on its own merits. He objected t 9 the Right Hon. Gentleman's principle, as poor and wise. rabic. He also objected t o t h e coro ll ary h e d e duced from it. It was, in fa c t, recommen di ng a Member of the House to abai.don hi s i n d e p en d ent pr i v ilege f introducing a Bill of himseif. Nor was it necessary th at the introducer of a legal measure should be a lawyer' The Hon. Member for ROscommon introduced the Me' dical Charities Bill last year, yet he was not a doctor.--' ( Hear, hear.) Upon that principle, any measure Pel l ; netted with the reform of th e C or p orat i on s h ou ld be left to the Right Hon. Gentleman, for though he was not I s t lawyer, he was the champion of the Corporation...." ( Laughter.) When the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth introdu ce d h is Bill f or t h e conso lid a tion of the laws respecting property, especially in Ireland, th e Right Hon. Gentleman did not make a single objection on the ground of the mover not being a professional person. ( Hear, hear.) He thought therefore that the Right Bon' Gentleman should not persevere in his opposition. Mr. BARRON replied. METROPOLIS POLICE COURTS. Mr. FOX MAULE gave not i ce t h at be shoulof move for leave to bring in a Bill for the regulation, the Metropolitan P o li ce C ourts. H e h a d ma d e so me a" terations in his measure since it was under discussion bee fore. He would leave the jurisdiction of the City autho- rities just as it was now, but the jurisdiction of the metro polis police courts, he would improve, so as, he trusted , 10 make them more respectable and efficient than they we re at present. He propos e d t o vest i n t h e G overnme nt tee power of altering the situation and the number of thee° courts, as the exigency of the case might require, end extend their jurisdiction to the entire extent of the mar° . politau courts. He proposed further to abolish the seit e : rate establishment of constables attending upon those courts, and to confine the duty of executing w. w. rants, &c., to the regular Metropolitan N i le "; He proposed to increase the salaries of the JuuP e who should preside, and to give to the Secretary of Sta t Y the power of superseding such of the Judges of tho se courts, as at present constituted, as should not be CO"na dered in every way qualified for the station, and that they should have a retir e d a ll owance not exceeding two-third" of their salary. Under the new arrangements, it wafer °. posed that the Magistrates should- sit every day from ~tel l till five, and it was intended t o confer upon a single D gistrate the power of adj u di ca ti ng i n t h ose cases sehr l heretofore required two. H e a l so p ropose d , i n or d e r Wit; sure uniformity of practice, th a t th e M ag i strates o f all tn police courts should bold quarterly meetings, and compa re notes of what had tak e n pl ace i n t h e i r respect i ve C ou rts, an d confer with the S ec r e t ar y of. State upon the subje c and a power would b e g i ven t o t h e S ecretary o f State t issue 'lilts to ensure uniformity of practice—another pow,, which lie also proposed to give these Magistrates, and eve which might create perhaps a little discussion and jealoug/' although he thought it would be attended with great eui vantage, was th a t a mag i strate m i g h t send a prisoner f e rule.. wiceout the necessity of having a presentment before the grand jury ; and thereby prevent unnecessary delays. Thel were the princip a l f eatures o f t h e measure—he thoug ht" better to confine the Bill to the criminal jurisdiction of th e Magistrates, and he proposed hereafter to bring in anothe r measure with respect to the civil jurisdiction of these cola"' With these explanations he would content himself with roc: - ing for leave to bring in the Bill. He might add, that the necessity of this measu re was t h e more urgent, becaus e upon inquiry it had been found, that although the police office at leow. street, had been established 100 years egC' yet, th e Bill w hi c h established the other courts, orig i nat e" in 1792. Since then it had been merely rene wed fr om time to tim e , an d i t appeared to him now high time to brill in a measure which would remodel the whole establish ment of the civil and criminal jurisprudence of this gre at metropolis.—( Loud cries of " Hear, bear.") CORPORATION OF LONDON. Mr. H. HINDE did not intend to offer any oPP°si tion to the measure, but he begged to take the opportu nity of asking whether it was the intention of her M a' iesty's Government to bring forward any measure for the reform of the Corporation of London. Mr. F. MAULS could not answer the question. PRIVATE LUNATIC ASYLUM. Mr. BA RNA B Y at the request of the Noble Lord, the Secretary of State fur the Home Departhient, would post' pone his motion for 'a Select Committee, to inquire intopthe manner in which Mr. John Gilland's Home for the racer tion of Insane Patients at Hereford had been conducted . Mr. FOX MA ULE sa id if t h e Hon. M em b er would forego his ,motior, the Noble Lord (the Secretary for the Home Department) would consider vrbether -a Commie° • could not be appointed to inquire into the whole subject. Mr. BA RNABY—In case that should not be done ? Mr. MAULE —Then the Ncible Lord will haVe no ob jection to the motion. Mr. GIL LON moved far an account of the public come and expenditure of the United Kingdom in the year: ended sth J anuary 1 83 7 , 1838, 1839 ; distinguish i ng tee actual payments tor the expenses incurred in the colleothr and management of the Revenue; for the charges of Public Debt (th e terminable annuities being also valu e by estimate); for the expenses of the Civil Gove rn dment ; the allowan ces to the Royal Family a n to his Royal Highness Prince Leopold, now King 17 s the Belgians ; the es t a bli s h ment of the Lord Lieutenall" of Ireland ; the expenses of the two Houses of P a rliaMec t and the Civil Dep ar t ments ; t h e other Pensions on the Consolidated Fund, or the gross Revenue ; and the Civi l List :—Also, the payments for the administration of Justice Diplomatic expenses ; and the payments on account of th e sums voted for the Army, Navy, and Ordnance Serviceet -- Also, Public Works, Bounties, Post-office, the Quarantin e and Warehousin g E sta bli s h ments, an d all other Percents au not coming und e r an y o f t h e f orego i ng heads; w ith Appendix, showing the several items composing the Account.—Ordered. Mr. HUME said the Chancellor of the Exchequer.had Pre ' tented certain returns which rendered it necessary for hi 0 3 , 1: limit his motion to the metropolis. His object wag : L show that the returns did not b ear ou t t h e great s uper' rity which the Licensed Victuallers claimed over the be t el. ; shops. By th e re tu r n s f or th e year 1837 i t appeare d ts! 3 546 public-house-keepers were brought before the Magis trates, trates, and that 519 c o nvi c ti ons t oo k p l ace ; w h e reas the case of the beer-shops only 241 individuals 'ce r n brought bef o r e th e M ag i s t ra t es . Th e H on. M em b e r the n (limiti n g hi s re t urn to t h e metropo li s ) f or a retur n of the number of Licensed Victuallers having license; Magistrates, agistrates, and th e num b er o f K eepers l x l3 c e i :et Shops having licen ses t o se ll b eer on l y, f rom t h e who have been charged with breaches of the laws, je, tit years 1836, 1837, and 1838 ; stating the number corivlc"" and the number dismissed in each you. The CHANCELLOR of the EXUHEQUEEtio uI offer no objection whatever to the return. If the beer' sellers had any information whatever to give to the Golerrd ment on the subject, he could assure them that they " ti _ be most happy to r ece i ve it, as t h ey were d es i rous of ry; ceiving the fullest information it was in the power of any ndividual to give. The returns were then agreed to. POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL. This Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. PARKER brought in the t wo B i ll s to pro tect th,.. copyright of designs, which Mr. P. Th ompson bad eu tained leave to bring in in the early part of the evening. The House adjourned at half-past ten. GENTLEMEN'S ELEGANT FLAT GO LD „; WATCHES are offered, price Nine Guineas each, of 11 1 , - ar -I d suited to wear in the waistcoat pocket, engine turned case'' , - are enamel dial, and hand to mark the seconds. The movement' , to on the celebrated horizontal construction with going d, einatinue going while winding, jewelled, , &c., at T. COX SAVORY'S, Watchmaker, &c., No. 47, Corolla' (sev•ri doors from Gracechurch-street), London. a . N.B. Second-hand Watches Plate, purchased in ex„„„,el' l &c. and warran _e... BIRTH. aim the On the 16th of January. at Bishop's Lodge, Jam lady of the Lord Bishop, of a sari. MARRIED. On the 21 s t i ns t ., at St. Matthew's, Lambeth, John Harri son,4 of Dul w i c h, E sq., to Kate, daughter of John curling , " Gosruore, in the county of lierts, Esq. On th e 20 t h i nst., at HiII IED. House, Messing, Ess ex, J°l'll Grir , ,, , --sq., aged 77. , Printed anti l'oblis::od by LTRDO YO „ir u in al 1 :2, at The Sun ()like. No. 112. Slra l " ' 1•110,.. -Fralay, February 13 314. ,• M 1... Sh e Pan' hex , the; ties P 1 obj