The Sun. — London, England, 1839-02-28 00:00:00

MANCHESTER-TUESDAY. (FROM OUR OWN REPORTER.) The feeling of astonishment with which the news of 1 the refusal o f th e L eg i s l ature to li sten to t h e case ten dered to them by the great manufacturing interests has given way to a spirit of resolute resistance to the 1 unjust verdict of an interested tribunal. Manchester 1 is again in motion, preparing to take the van in a new campaign against the landlords. This evening, at a 1 meeting of the Council of the Anti-Corn-law Association, preparations have been made for a great pudic meet. inf.', which is to be held in the Corn Exchange, on Thursday next. A large number of workmen, delegated from the different trades who signed petitions to be heard at the bar of the House, attended for the first time this evening, and offered to take a part at the public meeting next Thursday. This is one of the first steps in the progress of amalgamation of all classes. All minds are now looking to that union of the m is ters and workmen which may be expected to go on. In : deed, if the taunts of such enemies of the industry of their country as spoken in the House of Commons, ) were not enough to force the employers and the opera ; Lives to join in a common effort to put down their in fo- lent oppressors ; the sufferings of both, from the opera , tons of the Corn-laws are now sufficient to unite thee:, This has been the principal weekly market day in Manchester, when the spinners and manufacturers from the surrounding towns assemble for business here. To-clay's transactions have been of a very limit ::d extent, and prices ruinously low; it is, in short, the wonder of all that there are not many La ' lures. The difficulties of the spinner have indeed led him to suspend operations in many instances, and in others to work short time. To-day, upwards of one ,Itundred mills were enumerated on Change, which are no w working only half-time. This is a ruinous step for the poorer mill-owners who, in many instances, a re oblig ed to keep their wheels in constant motion, in order to find the means of paying their way. To the ;rich spinner, who has perhaps hundreds of thousands of pounds invested in bricks, mortar, and machinery, such a course involves the necessary sacrifice of interest, and wear and tear of machinery the sole taoi.on for keeping open at all is, that some partial employment may be found for their work people. Vet the London Tory papers are raising the absurd ory, that the cotton-spinners are throwing their hands out of employment to create distress, and thus operate upon the fears of the flovernment ! The Post and Herald may learn, by a lade candid inquiry, that many of their Tory partisans are driven to the necessity of closing their mills for want of customers ; for for tunately it does happen, that the Aristocratic Corn laws prevent the Conservative as well as the Radical spinner from working his machinery at a profit. And this will by and by be found out by the Tories of Lan cashire and Yorkshire, and must eventually force them into the ranks of the Anti-Corn-law agitators. At the meeting of the Anti-Corn-law Association this evening, a vote of thanks was passed to Colonel Thomp son for his exertions in the agricultural districts ; and it seemed to be the general opinion that the efforts of the Association must be directed towards enlightening the agricultural population. Lecturers will be dispatched into the south of England, and thousands or perhaps mil lions eitracts will be distributed. In short, I should not be surprised if the seven er eight thousand pounds already subscribed by the members of the Anti-Corn-law Asso ciation, and a good deal more yet to be raised, were to be spent in educating the labouring classes of the rural districts. Let the 'Squires and Parsons, who possess a vestal interest in the ignorance of the peasantry, look to it ! IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, FSR. 27. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. Mrt. HARVEY was introduced by Mr. Humphrey and Sir Matthew Wood, amidst loud cheers, and took the oaths and his seat for Southwark. Mr. HODGES brought in the South Eastern rail way Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time. Mr. GREEN brought up the Report of the Petition Committee, upon the Petition for leave to bring in a Bill to be called the Liverpool and Manchester Exten sion Railway Bill, stating that the Standing Orders of the House had been complied with ; also a Report from the same Committee, stating that the Standing Orders had been complied with, with respect to the Bill for improving the harbour of Aberdeen. The Bill was ordered to be brought in by Mr. Bannerman and Mr. Duff. NEW WRIT FOR DEVONSHIRE. On the motion of Mr. E. J. STANLEY, a new writ was ordered to be issued for the Northern Division of Devonshire, in the room of Lord Ebrington, called to the House of Peers. COURT OF REVIEW. Mr. GODSON presented a petition from an attorney of Furnival's Inn, complaining of the present state of the Court of Review, stating that the two Judges were seldom of the same opinion, so that no decision could be come to on most occasions. —(Hear, and a laugh.) •The petition had been submitted to the law officers of the Crown ; and on a future day he (Mr. Godson) would bring it under the consideration of the House • Mr. WALLACE presented a petition from the ship. owners and merchants of Greenock, in favour of an equalization of sugar duties ; also petitions from a vil lage near Peterhead, Aberdeenshire, and from the fe males and inhabitants of Forsyth, praying for the re moval of all laws affecting the food of mankind. CORN-LA WS. Petitions were presented by Sir E. Filmer, Sir J. Graham, Mr. Duncombe, Mr. Plumtre, Mr. Chute, Sir J. Round, Mr. Christopher, Mr. G. Palmer, Mr. Bratnston, and Mr. Handley, against any alteration in the Corn-laws. Petitions were also presented by Mr. Baynes and Mr. o, l liott, praying for the immediate abolitiQn of the Corn laws. ,`::AYLEY presented thirty-five petitions from various plac'N in Yorkshire ; and one from York, and its vicinity, sig - ued by several thousand's, against any alterations in the a'rn-laws. Mr. BROADLEY presented twenty-six petitions to the same effect. Mr. C. WOOD laid on the table certain returns relative to the number of Marines employed on particular stations. Mr. GREEN presented a petition from the Mayor and Corporation of Manchester, praying the House to adopt Mr. Hill's plan with respect to postage. Mr. HUTT presented a petition from the Mayor, .Al-dermen, and Town Council of Hull, praying for a repeal of the present Corn-law ; but the petitioners were or opinion I.h4t for a time there ought to be a low fixed duty imposed upon 011 corn imported, until the capital now ,ruployed in the ;:ultivation of land was equalised. Also one from the sa - gle parties, complaining of the duties levied upon English commerce at Stade. Sir GEORGE SINCLALK presented five petitions from places in the counties of Orkney and Perth, in favour of an extension of the Church of Scotland. Mr. H ALFORD presented a petition friZa Leicester, praying that the House would not sanction any further grant to the College of Maynooth. Mr. WOOD presented a petition from the town of Uxbridge against the present system of beer-houses. COPYRIGHT BILL. Sir ROBERT INGLIS presented a petition from a clergyman praying the House to give its sanction to the Proposed law for an alteration in the law of copyright. DISSENTERS. Mr. GROTE p resen t e d a pet i t i on from different Dis3enting congregations within twelve miles of Lon don, praying- that the grievances of Dissenters in Eng land and Wales might be immediately attended to and redresssed—that the Dissenters might be relieved from the exaction of Church-rates, and against their exclusion from the Universities of Oxford and Cam bridge. The Hon. Member also presented a petition from Mr. Thomas Tegg, against the Copy-right Bill. Mr. EASTHOPE presented a petition from Lit terworth, praying for the total repeal of the preseat Corn-laws ; also, a petition, signed by six thous& id persons, many of them retailers of beer in Leicester, complaining of the hardships ia curred by a loss of their trade, and that no alt era ti )n might be made in the laws affecting their interests. Sir E. L. 13UL WER presented a petition f rom L . 1 - coln, praying for a comprehensive change in the pres-,it Corn-laws. PRIVATE BUSINESS. 4 Mr. P. THOMSON said he would now place in the hands of the clerk at the table the resolution which he intended to move to-morrow with respect to private business. t Mr. HUMII--I cannot hear a word that the Riglit • Hon. Gentleman has stated. Mr. P. THOMSON stated that it was his inten ttion to place in the hands of the clerk the resolution which he intended to move to-morrow with respect to 4 tile private business of the House. His object in placing the resolution in the hands of the clerk that day was, that i t might be printed, and in the hands of Honourable Mem-ber.' to-morrow morning, as it was his intention to bring I :_he subject forward to-morrow, at half-past four o'clock, iromeJiately after the private business was con cluded. Mr. HUME salld, that upon the occasion of the Right Hon. Gentleman bringing forward the subject, be should submit to the House three resolutions as an amendment, to the effect of haw far local influence should be permitted in Committees on Private Bills. Sir J. GRAHAM said, that if the object of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny was to move his resolutions as an amendment to those of the Right Hon. Gentleman they ought to be before the House, in order that Hon. Members might have an opportunity of comparing them. Mr. HUME said that he would take care that Hon. Members should be furnished with a copy of the reso lutions he should move as an amendment. CORN-LADS. Mr. VILLIERS gave notice, that on the 12th March h e wou ld move that the Hou se ' do go into a Com mittee of the whole House for the purpo4u, of taking into consideration the 9th George IV., which regulated the importation of Foreign Corn.—(Cheers.) Mr. CHRISTOPHER—Then, Sir, I give notice, that upon the 12th March, I shall move that the House be called over. Mr. PACKINGTON gave notice that on Tuesday, the sth of March, he would move for leave to bring in a Bill to alter and amend the laws relating to the sale of beer.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. GRATTAN renewed his notice respecting the appropriation of the 50,0001. annually voted for the pur poses of education in Ireland, for the sth of March. Viscount DUNGANNON gave notice that on the sth of March he would move for a Committee of In quiry into the state, expenditure, and system of educa tion in the Roman Catholic College of Maynooth. Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice that he would move, by way of amendment, to extend the inquiries of the said Committee to Trinity College. Mr. CAYLEY gave notice that he would move, that considering the heavy debt and taxation to which this country was subjected, the existing Corn-laws, by the protection afforded to the grower against low prices, and to the purchaser against high prices, had essentially answered the purposes for which they were enacted.— (Cheers and laughter.) Lord ASHLEY gave notice that on the 4th of March he would call the attention of the House to a report made by James Stuart, Esq., one of the factory in spectors, which had been, by command of her Majesty, laid on the table of that House. PATTERNS AND INVENTIONS BILL. Mr. P. THOMSON said, seeing his Hon. Friend opposite in his place, (Mr. Mackinnnon) he wished to ask him whether he could, consistently with his duty, postpone the above Bill. In consequence of the various Bills brought in by the Hon. Gentleman last Session, the attention of Government had been turned to the subject, and he was quite prepared to show that the Bill of his Hon. Friend, then standing for the second reading, ought to be divided into two Bills. He was prepared to show both his Hon. Friend and the House good reasons for so doing ; but as the whole subject was now under the consideration of Government, probably he might think it consistent with his duty to postpone the con sideration of the present Bill for a short period. In the present state of the question he (Mr. Poulett Thom son) did not think that the question would at all suffer from the delay ; probably his Hon. Friend would consent to allow the matter to remain is the hands of the Go vernment for a short period. Mr. MACKINNON would willingly have acceded to the wishes of her Majesty's Government, but he must say, that having given great attention to the subject, having devoted a great deal of his time to making researches con nected with it, he thought it was hardly fair to take the Bill out of the point of his mouth at the moment he had come to the mark. He would ask his Right Hon. Friend whether he had any objection to let his Bill go to a Committee up stairs in eonjitnction with his own Bill. His Right Hon. Friend might name his own Committee, and out of the two Bills a measure might be formed which would be valuable to the House and the cotntry.—(Hear, hoar.) He bad bean two years occu pied with this Bill—(Hear)—he had been disappointed in bringing it forward for two successive sessions ; and now when the time had come for the second reading of this Bill, her Majesty's Government bring in a Bill on the same subject. He would therefore ask his Right Hon. Friend whether he had any objection to refer both Bills to a Committee up-stairs. Mr. P. THOMSON must oppose the proposition of his Hon. Friend. Upon the consultations which he had had with the trade on the subject be was satisfied that his Hon. Friend's Bill was very unsatisfactory to them. There was nothing at all requiring that they should go before a Committee up-stairs. Since hi, Hon. Friend refused to accede to his proposition, he must bring his measure before the House in the re gular way. Mr. MACKINNON said, that in consequence of what had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend the Presi dent of the Board of Trade, he would beg to postpone the second reading of his Bill to that day fortnight. FICTITIOUS VOTES (SCOTLAND.) Mr. G. W. HOPE seeing the Noble Lord in his place, would wish to draw his attention to the recom mendations contained in the report of the Committee on fictitious votes in Scotland, and he would wish to ask whether it was the intention of the Government to give effect to those recommendations. The LORD ADVOCATE replied that it was the intention of the Government to introduce such a Bill. Mr. HOPE asked when ? The LORD ADVOCATE said he could not exactly state when. COMMITTEE RESPECTING MR. WYNN. Mr. JERVIS then moved the appointment of the Se lect Committee respecting Mr. Wynn ; substituting for the Attorney-General Mr. O'Connell, and for Mr. Aglionby Mr. Harvey.—(Hear, hear, from the Liberal Members ; No, no, from the Opposition.) Mr. AGLION BY said he had requested the Hon. Member for Chester to withdraw his name from the Committee, because he was Chairman of Committee No. 3 on Private Bills ; and there were some hundreds of specific objections to be considered ; and the Com mittee had to sit day by day till these objections had been disposed of.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) - ""*On the SPEA VCR putting the names of the Committee, Mr. GOULBURN said the object of publishing the names of the Members who were to be proposed on the Committee was of course to give full notice—(Hear) — and that object was frustrated by proposing two names which had not been published in the Votes, and of which, therefore, no notice had been given.—(Hear.) Mr. O'CONNELL said, to-morrow the Attorney- General might be in his place, and he might be able to serve. Mr. JERVIS said he did not know whether the Attorney-General could serve. As a, matter of privilege he doubted whether he could not have proposed the Committee without any notice. But he did not wish to press that. He was anxious for a full and fair inquiry, and to that end wished every name proposed on the Committee to be thoroughly canvassed.—(Hear.) If it were the wish of the House, therefore, he would give notice :bat to morrow he would move the appointment of the Com mittee, with the names of Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Harvey included. Mr. HUME—Sir, I wish to ask the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs a question re specting Belgium.—(Several voices on the Ministerial benches exclaimed " He is not here, he is not here ;" which created great laughter, in the midst of which the Hon. Member resumed his seat.) HAND-LOOM WEAVERS. Sir R. BATESON wished to ask the President of the Board of Trade if he knew when the Report of the Hand-loom Weavers' Commissioners would be laid on the table of the House, as very great anxiety was felt by that class of her Majesty's subjects relative to this matter. Mr. P. THOMSON said the Report of three of the Commissioners had not as yet been sent in, conse quently it was impossible for the Commissioners to make their general report. The Reports of some of the Commissioners would shortly be laid on the table of the House, and no time would be lost in presenting the general Report. MR. FROST. Mr. PR AED , having seen a statement in the papers that Mr. Frost had been struck off the Commission of the Peace, wished to ask the Noble Lord opposite whether that was the case, and whether there would be any inconvenience in laying on the table of the House the whole of the correspondence between the Home-office and that person. Lord JOHN RUSSELL had thought it his duty to represent the case to the Lord Chancellor, but did not think it would be right to produce the correspon dence at present. CANADA. Sir R. PEEL wished to ask the Noble Lord what course he proposed to pursue with respect to the Bill for the future Government of the Canadas. He had under stood the Noble Lord to say be would introduce the Bill before Easter, but would postpone the second read ing till after Easter. He wished to know whether the Noble Lord intended to fix the second reading for an early day after Easter, or whether be intended to communicate with the Government of Canada before proposing the second reading. Lord JOHN RUSSELL had certainly stated it was his wish to introduce the Bill be. fore Easter, and still hoped he might be enabled to do so, though at this moment he could not say confidently that the Bill would be introduced before Easter. It was not intended to propose the second reading immediately after Easter ; nor was it proposed to allow sufficient time to elapse for communication with Canada. The second reading would not come on for at least three weeks after Easter. Sir ROBERT PEEL—Does the Noble Lord con template actual legislation on the subject of the govern ment of the two provinces ? Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Yes. ?Zr. HUME wished to ask whether the Government intended to lay on the table of the House all the docu ments respecting Canada. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said the correspondence relating to Lord Durham's Report would be laid on the table to-morrow or next day. Mr. HUME—There is Sir Francis Head's cor respondence. Mr, LABOUCHERE said that was in a state of preparation, and would be shortly laid on the table of the House, Mr. O'CONELL, seeing the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies iP bis place, wished to k now whether any step was intende d to bo taken to stop the effusion of blood in Canada. The insurrect:9n bad been put an end to, but the effusion of blood continued. LABOUCHERE considered that the language of the Hon, and Learned Member was rather dispropor tinned to the real facts of the case.—(Hear, hear, hear, from the Opposition side of the House.) The moment that he had entered upon the duties of the office which he had now the honour to fill, be bad taken the first opportunity of inquiring the number •f persons who had suffered capital punishment, and he had been informed that the great effusion of blood to which the Hon. and Learned Member had referred comprised sixteen persons, who had been executed in Upper Canada, and (as we understood the Right Hon. Gent.) seventeen in Lower Canada, all of whom had been convicted of most atrocious crimes. He (Mr. L.) felt bound to make this statement, because he thought it was extremely improper that the assertions, that blood had flowed to any great extent in those colonies, should go forth to the world without explanation. In making the statement he had done, he begged it to be understood that he entertained feelings of the deepest regret that it should have been considered necessary that a single human being should have suffered capital punishment ; but after what had been stated by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman he could not refrain from making the state ments he had done. He begged also to state that the Government had not the slightest reason to think that the discretion which had been given to Sir John Colborne had been exercised without a due regard to humanity. Mr. O'CONNELL considered after the manner in which he had been assailed, that he had a right to say that an effusion of blood had taken place. The Right Honourable Gentleman seemed to think that the death of sixteen persons by the hand; of the law was not an effusion of blood. Now, he (Mr. O'Connell) was of opinion, that the death of one per son beyond the number of one was an effusion of blood. Mr. HU AIE trusted after the conversation that had taken place that there would be no objection to the Re turns which he was to have moved for yesterday of the names of persons imprisoned in Lower and Upper Ca nada, charged with treason or offenees of a treasonable nature since the Ist of November, 1837, their trade or profession, the day of the commencement of their impri sonment, the date of their discharge, the amount of hail and personal security demanded and given, and if tried, by what tribunal, and the sentence passed upon them, and if sentence of death passed, whether executed or com muted, and if commuted, the commutation of the punish ment. After a few observations from the Hon. Member the Return was agreed to. LORD LIEUTENANT OF IRELAND. Mr. HUME gave notice that on Friday, in the Com mittee of Supply he should move—" That an humble Address be presented to her Majesty, praying that her Majesty will be graciously pleased to consider whether the office of Viceroy in Ireland may not be dispensed with, consistently with advantage to that country and the general interests of the United Kingdom." Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD presented several peti tions from different literary individuals, in favour of the Copyright Bill. Among those literary persons were Mr. Wordsworth, Dr. James Thomson, Dr. Chalmers, Mr. Lockhart, and Mr. Dickens. Upon the question of the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Copyright Bill, Sir JAMES GRAHAM stated that he wished to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet the Presi dent of the Board of Control relative to the treaty en tered .into between the Governor-General and the Shah of Persia. He wished to know whether there would be any objection to lay that treaty upon the table of the House ? Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE said that not only had he no objection to lay the treaty upon the table of the House, but he was also desirous to lay the other papers connected with that treaty upon the table of the House. The selection of those papers would require a considerable degree of care, and it might be some time before they could be produced. LUNATIC ASYLUMS. Mr. BARNABY wished to know whether the Noble Lord afterwards had made up bis mind as to the course he would pursue relative to the motion of which he had given notice relative to Lunatic Asylums ? Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that he had referred the question to the law officers of the Crown. Mr. BARNABY said, that such being the case, be would postpone his motion for a weak. Sir F. TRENCH postponed his motion relative to lighting the House to Friday. COPYRIGHT BILL. _ _ _ Mr. Serjeant TALFOURD then rose for the pur pose of moving the second reading of the Copyright Bill. The Learned Gentleman said—Sir, after the attention this House has paid in previous Sessions to the interests of literature, as affected by the Law of Copyright, an attention which the petitions that I have laid upon the table shows to be well merited, I feel bound in the dis charge of my duty to state the precise position in which the question stands, and the materials on which the House must act. The question to be decided is this— whether the present term of copyright is sufficient for the purposes of justice, or whether the statements in the petitions which I have presented, are true or are not true. Those petitions are coma from some of the most distinguished ornaments of the literature of the day. The Bill, though unsupported, passed tranquilly through the House ; it was passing, without a shadow of opposition, until the demise of the Crown stopped its pro gress, and it was necessarily abandoned for that Session. In the meantime some eminent publishers had disco vered, or thought that they had discovered, that the operation of certain clauses in the Bill, by which it was proposed to give authors an extension of their interest in the copyright of their own works, would be incompatible with their interests—one eminent amongst themselves —one who had amassed considerable wealth in the book. selling trade, Mr. Tegg came to their assistance. I am ex. ceedingly glad that he is now a petitioner before this House, He petitioned against the Bill, along with other eminent houses in the trade, they were joined by compositors, by pressmen, by bookbinders and others, who all thought the extension of the time of the copyright remaining with the author would have the effect of paralyzing the trade in which they are engaged. At that time the Bill was passing through the House ; but the state of public business, and the sort of opposition with which the Bill was threatened, would have required a larger expenditure of time than either the House or myself could afford, and it was accordingly withdrawn for that Session. It is now upon the table of your House again. I was very desirous of so altering the Bill, that I might have been enabled to have disarmed the opposition of the booksellers ; but finding that it was an impossible work, I thought it better at once to give it up, and strike out the clause. There are petitions before the House on both sides, and I will fearlessly ask any Member of the House to compare those in favour of the Bill, with those on the other side, which I must acknowledge to be much more numerous. I have read carefully over the whole of the petitions presented on the subject during the last Session of Parliament, and it is strange that those from the compositors, booksel lers, pressmen and others, contain no information with but one exception. I say so, Sir, because all the com plaints made by the eminent booksellers, were made against the retrospective clause. That clause I have removed from the Bill, and of course they have now no thing to complain of. The petitions, then, of the emi nent booksellers may be taken to have been withdrawn, at all events as that part of the Bill to which they related has been omitted, the petitions go for nothing. There, now then, Sir, only remains the petition of the master printers, of the pressmen, the petition of the com positors, the petition of the bookbinders, and of the assist. ants of all those classes ; but I think it will be easy for me to show that those parties have entirely mistaken the question—that they are not acquainted with its bearings, and that the present Bill will in no way whatever injure or affect in any way their interests. These persons, whose petitions have been thus presented to this Home are not in a situation to from an opinion that is intitled to much consideration. They are persons following mechanical operations, connected with literature, who are under the guidance of others—who are not ac quainted with any peculiar facts—and who, like our selves, are mere speculators as to what to consider may be the probable results of this measure. They do not mention one single fact ; they merely state that it is their opinion that fewer books will be printed, fewer reams of paper used, should this Bill pass into a law, and that all these departments of trade will suffer a sudden para lysis. But they do not state one single fact which can warrant them in coming to such a conclusion. The fact is, that the trade underwent a much greater change in the year 1814, when the copyright had been extended from 14 years to 28 years. The measure of 1814, when it was first proposed, had met with quite as great opposition as the present measure, from the same class of persons, but not one of these fears have been rea lized. There is no press unoccupied that lam aware of, and since the year 1814 books have multiplied ; and in consequence of the increased number of readers, the books have increased in number, whilst at the same time, they have become cheaper in consequ ence. But there is Doe of the petitions which have been presented to this House on the subject, which contains an allegation so curious, that I trust the House will bear with me awhile if I draw their attention more mi nutely to this subject. The petition to which I allude, was the one presented by the Hon. Member for Rib. kenny, and purports to be the petition agreed on at a meeting of compositors, pressmen, and others, held at the Mechanics' institution in Southampton-buildi ngs , and after the usual statements regarding cheap books, it stated that the books to which at present the law did trashy th and em not meretriciousa ff r d character, whose authorschiefly in a vain hope of attaining immortal fame. Now when those h a of d written a it is recollected that the works to which I more parti cularly alluded as requiring greater protection than law at present affords them. and which these gentlemen de signate as works of a dasily and meretricious character, are the works of Coleridge and Wordswoyth, and of Sir W. Scott, I think it will be admitted that these ge 4 . tien3ee have read these cheap books to very little pur pose, or rather that they wasted their time by • reading books which must be considered dear at any price. But, Sir, just observe the extreme folly of this argil meat. Supposing the protection of this Bill were asked for trashy and meretricious:publications, it is impossible tbev could be prote, - ,4,ed hy it. How many of them would survive the term of 11 Yearsi There would Le. rpanya brilliant succession of works "to blaze, to sparkle, and to dip" in the meantime. The printing presses would be occupied all the while s and in fact the appre hensions of these pedtiOners are as absurd as those of the nervous remainder man, who w a s terribly frightened 5 .-- when told that the tenant had granted a lease for 999 i descendants. I will read a little portion of a petition years—overlooking the slight proviso, " if he should which was presented from Mr. Smith, an eminent book-. live so long."—(A laugh.) Just as certain as that the seller of Glasgow, whose father and forefathers had been decay of the body would result it: natural death—just as in the trade in that town for upwards of 100 years. certain was it that. these trashy productions would die Mr. Smith differs a little from me, as he thinks this away in their sparkling and giddy course, doing g ood to copyright ought to be p er p e t ua l, an d w i s h es for some the printers, and nobody els e ; an d t h ey wou ld expire restriction upon the assignment of copyrights, which I long before the close of the present term of copyright. have not thought it right to put into my Bill. This simple —( Hear.) Sir, the petitioners go on to say that " the statement of Mr. Smith's may well be put in contrast with present high profits of authors are an ample return the inflated statementsof Mr. Tegg. It must be borne in for the time employed in the composition of their mind that Mr. Smith is not a purchaser of copyrights— works." Sir, this is rather modest—for these compo- he purchases editions ; and he states in his petition, sitors to estimate the trials and anxieties of an that while the booksellers could transmit their property author's life—all his fond hopes—all his partial fail- to their heirs and posterity, the author, who was ures—all his agonising struggles—it is surely arrogant the sole creator of the property, was shut out, and could for these petitioners to judge of what they can know do no such thing. It is remarkable, that in the peti nothing about. They go on to say that works will not tions that come from Scotland upon this subject, they be rendered more valuable by this Bill—not more are joined in by all parties. To the one petition were valuable to the seller perhaps, but infinitely more attached the names of Dr. Chalmers and Dr. Wardlaw. valuable to the author. It is a remarkable fa c t that Dr. Wardlaw, the Chief of Dissent in Scotland, joins every distinguished author who has petitioned the Dr. Chalmers in this cause, although he is the zealous House in favour of this Bill has a copyright entirely Apostle of the Scottish Church. I could not see the unassigned—not having sold any part of it. But if in petition signed by such eminent names without recoi truth works will not be rendered more valuable the letting an incident which occurred to lee a few days public cannot be the losers. Well, Sir, after these ago. I was waited upon by a great-grandson of the late general statements then comes this rather curious ob- Dr. Doddridge, in a state of most pitiable distress. Dr. servation—" that the profits derived from a book de- Doddridge was one of the idols of the religious world— pend not upon the art of writing, but the art of print- his works have been multiplied by thousands and mil ing—because, but for the facilities of improved mecha- lions, yet one of his descendants was obliged to ask for nical arrangements, the number of copies diffused the charitable aid of strangers. One single shilling would be less, and at a high price, so that the profits upon even one of the Doctor's most celebrated would be less, and it is unjust for authors to endeavour works would have prevented the almost immediate to injure the profession to which they are entitled for descendant from the necessity of making such a distress the value of the works." Sir, if this claim was made ing appeal. Upon this state of facts, Sir, I have to upon behalf of the original inventors of printing, I ask the judgment of the House ; but before I sit down should remind them that thought and genius existed allow me to anticipate some objection with which I may long before their art, and not at all undervaluing the be met. Some Gentlemen may tell the House that aid of that art, the idea of their assuming a superior or they appear not for this class or that class—that they even an equal share in the glory of authors, is as absurd appear not for compositors, not for pressmen, or for as if the manufacturers of bayonets and gunpowder by bookbinders, but for the public—that he felt bound to which some great battle was contested should dispute oppose the Bill because it cannot fail to increase the with the conqueror the triumph of the day, because but price of books, and that such an increase of the price for them it could not have been won.—(Cheers.) of books must be injurious to the public. In the first Sir, I cannot help remarking that I hope there is some- place, Sir, lam not sure that the mere diffusion of thing in this world more valuable even than knowledge. cheap books is such a benefit to the public as many It might be as well for these petitioners to recollect persons seem to suppose ; but granting that it is so— what they owe to one individual—to recollect how granting, to the utmost degree, that cheap books are a many presses have been set in motion—how many fa- benefit to the public, where is the evidence that books milies have been comforted and enriched—how much must become more dear in consequence of an extension activity spread through all the branches of their trade of the copyright ?—where, I ask, is the tittle of evidence by the efforts of one of those distinguished authors to prove that such a consequence would be the necessary whose interests would be protected by this result of this Bill ? I defy any one to produce such evi- Bill ; they might have seen the mind of Sir Walter dente. There was no rise in the price of books in Scott, after burning so brightly, glimmering, and fading consequence of the partial extension which took place in away, God forbid I should say perishing, in the midst of 1814. The Hon. Member for Finsbury, instructed by worldly embarassments.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Sir, I Mr. Tegg, may amuse the House for a short time with pass from these petitions, and I proceed to the facts a list of those works which by duteous attendance on the stated by the authors who have petitioned in favour of death-beds of expiring copyrights that gentleman had the Bill, and would•give a practical illustration of the amassed to the amount of 170,0001. ; but that would insufficiency of the present system of copyright for justly not prove that a rise in the price of books must of ne rewarding the labour of authors. There is another in- cessity follow the passing of this Bill. Another author, stance of the hardship of the present system, in the and one who has not come before this House by peti person of Mr. Allison, who was the son of a man tion, but who has committed his case to me—he is a eminently esteemed in public life. Mr. Allison early in man of no mean celebrity—Dr. Southey. waited upon life devoted himself to the bar, at which by his talent me the other evening and told me that he had just com and industry he had the prospect of making an honour- pleted a corrected edition of all his works, which he able competence. But he perfected a great work on was about to publish. That corrected edition of course the history of Europe during the French Revolution, his representatives would have the power of disposing and being determined to devote himself most assidu- of, but those works which he had been publishing during ously to his important undertaking, he withdrew from the the last fifty years—those works which been before the bar, and became Sheriff of Lanarkshire, the proceeds of public for such a lengthened period, may be kept be which office would afford him a moderate income. fore the public with all their imperfections on their He has spent twenty-five years on this work, and heads, and his family might be driven out of the in pursuit of materials he has had occasion market by the bookseller representing their own impel-- to visited the principal cities in Europe. He is feet er hasty works as being the best. If a man were now out of pocket 2,0001., partly on account of those to be tied down to every rash thought or hasty expres journeysand partly on account of the books which he sion to which he had ever given publication, I must say has had occasion to purchase ; and if he lives to finish that great as is the blessing of the press there is a curse the work his expenditure must be more than double mingled with it. But suppose that the price of books that sum. True the copyright is his own, and he had had will not be affected, let me ask is there nothing desirable advances from the booksellers on successive editions of it. to have but cheap books ; as education advances is the It has been slowly and surely making its way amongst rising generation to be taught that while they are rioting the public. But it would require the whole of the 2 8 in the genius and the best sayings of an author, that at years for which he was protected before he could have that very moment the family of that author was, in received one farthing of remuneration. But even if the consequence of the state of the law, almost deprived of work should be completed, and should be successful bread ? Those Gentlemen who have spoken in opposi within 28 years, he will not receive half as much as he tion to these claims pretend that they are speaking for might have accumul a t e d if h e h a d d evote d hi mse lf to th e peop l e . I b e li eve, Si r, that the people disdain the ephemeral productions of the day. Mr. Allison such advocacy—l believe that, poor as they may says, "if you pass this Bill—if you extend the period of be, they are too rich in soul—they love too protection to even forty years, you will have secured in dearly that author, to whom they are indebted for those the work a substantial provision for my children. If high delights, to be influenced by any considerations, ex you do not they will lose a valuable property." There cept those of conducing to the utmost of their power to are many learned, laborious, and illustrious men now his comforts. I do not believe, Sir, that the people of depending upon the justice of the House for a guaran- Scotland are so ungenerous as to take advantage of tee that they shall receive from their toils that reward those cheap editions, which the competition among the to which they are entitled. There is a distinguished publishers has recently caused to be put forth of the Doctor in the University of St. Andrew's, the author of " Lady of the Lake,'" and the " Lay of the Last Min the History of the Reform in Scotland, Sir David strel," because they are a few pence cheaper than if Brewster, who has devoted much of his valuable life to the they had been the editions emanating from the mighty composition of works which charm and instruct the mind, minstrel himself. I cannot believe that they can so and who will have but; a minimum of profit unless soon have forgotten the obligations which their coun you extend the present protection. There is also try owes to him for the immortality which he has Dr. Thompson, Professor of Mathematics in the Uni- conferred upon it. I cannot believe but that they ex versity of Glasgow, who has written several valuable ele- ult in his fame, and spurn to take this ungenerous ad mentary text books. These books are esteemed and used vantage merely because his voice is now silent and his in his own locality, but they are but slowly making their halls deserted.—(Cheers.) With regard to Burns, too way into general circulation,for books of that description great a length of time has perhaps elapsed to remedy have to contend against the prejudices of readers, and the evil, but I cannot believe that the Scottish peasant, the opposition of booksellers, who have a property in when on the Saturday night he looks exultingly at the existing works. They do not, therefore, come into works of his gifted fellow peasant, I cannot believe that • general circulation for a long time. These are a few he will love the well thummed copy less because • out of many practical instances which I could bring it may chance to have cost some sixpence more than before you. It was with surprise, indeed, that on a these cheaper editions. There is only one other con former occasion I heard an Honourable Friend of mine sideration to which I will draw the attention of the say that when once an author gives his thoughts to the House— it is a consideration which has struck the ye world he ceases to have a property in them. But I nerable Wordsworth, and to which he has alluded in would ask if the toil, the capital, the waste of human the recent edition of his works, and therefore I consider life, the sacrifice of honour and gain in other quarters, are it well worthy the attention of the Legislature. The to be overlooked ?—if all his ambition in the hope of venerable Wordsworth says, with respect to this mea honourable success is to be disregarded and set down as sure, that it has his support, because one of its main nothing ? Surely the pecuniary outlay of the author objects is, to free the literary man from his present de ought to be considered. But is it to be said that this grading thraldom—to release him from the degrading property is of a nature so ethereal that it is impossible necessity which he is now under, of becoming the slave to consider it as the subject of legislation ? I of the prevailing taste of the day, and of pandering to will advert for a moment to a case of a dile its prejudices. Surely if it ought ever to be the object ferent kind —to the case of a great poet, wh ose of the Legislature to enable literary men to emanci name has been introduced in connexion with this pate themselves from this thraldom, and to induce them subject, but who has never before appeared to pres en t to undertake works of high and mighty and influen his case to you as as a petitioner—l allude to Mr. tial character.—(Hear, hear.) The immensely in- Wordsworth. Mr. Wordsworth states that he has at- creased intellectual activity of the present age, renders tamed the seventieth year of his age—that he began it more than ever necessary that authors should to devote himself to literature six-and-forty years ago— be rendered independent of the prevailing taste, and that he then published his first work, and that since be enabled to undertake those works which may that time, at various intervals he has published other immortalize themselves and benefit future ages.—(Hear, original works. He then states, that having engaged hear.) I have been accused of attempting to legislate and persevered in literary labours—less with the ex- upon this subject in a sentimental manner. I deny the pectation of producing speedy effect than with a view accusation, it is an accusation much more applicable to to instruct and benefit mankind, his works have mad e the petitioners against this measure, whose imagine their way slowly into general circulation ; and he states nations have conjured up certain spectral phantoms, as a fact which I cannot help thinking any unprejudiced having no real existence, and to the absurd dread of mind must feel as a most intimate and important bearing which they have become victims. If I had had asked on the question before the House, that during the last for your aid on some frivolous subject, this accusation four years he has received a larger remuneration for his might have been justly brought against me, but I ask labours than during the whole course of his previous you for aid on no frivolous grounds—l ask for aid on existence.—( Hear, hear.) These works are some of behalf of him, who, girding up himself for some great them works, the copyright of which have expired, and literary effort, and linking day to day, and hour if Mr. Wordsworth had been taken from his family to hour, and by continued labour, I ask that he four years ago, the profits he has since obtained would may not when he hears, or fancies he hears the have gone to swell the coffers of Mr. Tait. " All hail hereafter," listen to those sounds with (Cries of Hear, hear.) What answer is to be shuddering and dread, as though he heard them given to such a case. I know the answer before given whispered in hollow mockery, or uttered in the bitter to it was this, " Why you have proved something accents of despair. I will not longer detain the House, against yourself —you have shown that a man of pure but will conclude Sir, in the language of our venerable feeling and of high intellect will devote himself thus, in petitioner Wordsworth, that justice in this, as in all spite of scorn, and in spite of neglect, and all the other other cases, is capable, ultimately, of working out its inconveniences that belong to hone deferred'—you own expediency. (The Hon. and Learned Member have shown he will devote himself to the work of doing here sat down amidst loud cheering from all parts of the good te his own time and posterity without the encou- House, which lasted some considerable time.) ragement you seek to give him ; and th ere f ore (it was M r. HUM E hoped that the House would not be said), to the public it is unjust, because you can get led away by the eloquence of the Hon. and Learned these great benefits without paying for them." Sir, I Gentleman who had just sat down. He would join in will not stop now to inquire whether you might always all that Hon. and Learned Gentleman had said in find in a person of such rare endowments the same praise of literary men, but he could not agree with that small but independent resources, or whether you may Hon. and Learned Gentleman as to the necessity find the same disposition to devote the mind to a high which he fancied to exist for the change of the lee r on and pure aim ; but I must say the argument that was this subject. If the law, as it at present heisted, was used before, and which I heard with sorrow, is contrary such as to prevent authors from undertaking literary to the plainest and simplest dictates of morality and works, then it might be worthy of the consideration of justice. I should like to know whether it was ever said the House, whether they should not make sueh altera to some conqueror, who was about toreceive the thank s of tion in the law ns might induce authors to undertake pu the House, an d the money of the Oh, you have those works, het every word that theoriourtaoblesiantd no occasion to be inconvenienced with the public money, Learned Gentlenaan had said, in praise of the literary the love of country and the glory of the profession, are men of the present day, WAS an argument against any Y enough to make your Nelsons and your Wellingtons—. extension of the present period of copyright. The ex you need do no more—if you do, it is only so much tension of the copyright from twenty-ei g h t money taken out o f th e p u blic purse." Was that ever years, as proposed by the Hon. and Learned Gentle- 37 said ? And yet, Sir, the case of the poet is really man, would n h o a t vi l..a n e g o fo f r a i n t y s hoebnjeefictt ttoheauptohsosirbsle in n ad m va o n- re stronger than this, because you do not seek to reward than one cage out of 100, and he would put it to the him out of any public fund, you do not seek to reward House, whether they would consent to any legislative his own admirers, who enactment, him out of the pocket of any but g a n t d e s p t s o t f e l r i i t t e y - b L o e o a l4 r s n____ . e Learned c4ee Gentleman med di s p h o a a d o d fo t u o n found preventgr eat fault the with diff u si cheap of choose voluntarily to give it, and in this, also, you have tage of one man in 500, while it operates to the direct the advantage, that when you are mak b in . g h a law which and immediate injury of thousands. The Hon. and r e a a r n y b m en e e t t yo o u nl i y ak t e he tim g e re f a o t r os y t o a u n r for your judge. Sir, I will take leave , just to reed the literature, at least, so be judged ftali' House his ta.,{ig House an expression on this subject trmel a Petition of the paltry considerati f University of Q 011 Q one man book which ha; the sanction of the ancient cezapeetleananoth er , The Hon. Andrew's, and the mode in which they i end Learn d Gentle pieced the did not seem to see the full weight of wha e t he had m sai n d case of particular authors of Seet arid, was that with roved to the extended circulation of the works of d a arbiter—and e r of peculiar hardship. After having given a very Dr. Doddridge. Those works would not have been admirable summary of the arguments on this extensively circulated had the copyright• continued in subject, the petitioners submitted that where a Doddridge'a son, end he sold it to some publisher— few rewards that used to be conferrred on life- and in 499 cases out o f 500 thi s would be the case— rary and scientific merit h a d been withdrawn, those iaz end the d propose measure would give a monopoly to dividuals had good grounds to expect their literary ' another, and not to the author. He believedthat rights . rights would be extended, arid rendered as beneficial as authors,,although in genera they stood as much In need of possible to themselves and their children. Among money as most men, yetwere d n . in genera actuated by these Professors was one whose course ha of beee ; pecuniar • y consi erations. Hebeheved they were actuated h had e !imt of a secluded student, 9, voted all by motives of a higher order. He considered that this his energies eo the advancement of our common faith, was the of an attempt so cramp, literature the country, although, perhaps, there were many who might diff er and to prevent the diffusion of knowledge.—(Hear.) with him—l mean Dr. Chalmers, He is one of the The interests oI the author would not be benefited by petitioners, an d I w ill t a k e l e ave to use hi s l anguage, ' t h is Bill. if the authors thought that their pecuniary hot th e l a n guag e o f t h e pet i t i on , but th a t w hi c h he has interests would be advanced by the Bill, of course they done m e th e h onour to a dd ress to me . on the sebecest oi• would supp or t i t ; b ut t h e i nterests o f the public (melt this Bill. He says that his profesetenal Income has to be considered. It was most important that the lwa ys been so Scity, that he wouh ave been in people should be fureiehed with " cheap information ;and gr 6." ditlitljties 1 7, no t been for the profits of he (Mr. H.) belieeed that his. Bell would limit the Les authorship ; and he wa s not aware this 'ne mulliptcatiOn of copies, and increase the price, and that could receive a more desireele eorepeiis'aii • dincalculablymischief held,` than it would more to the present for the meagre emo i u meeta of the office he neld,`tha n t generation, and to succeeding generations, thn n it would that th ose pro fi ts shou ld b e perpetuated in favour of his Ido benefit to the authors. On the ground of these 9,1),- 28, 1839 jections, which had been supported by many eminent in dividuals who had devoted their lives to the improve ment of their fellow-creatures, he moved that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. Mr. WARBURTON seconded the amendment. Mr. O'CONNEL L—Sir, I shall not detain the House but for a very few minutes. I wish to record my opinion in favour of this Bill. So far from it being unfavourable to the diffusion of information, it is highly favourable.—(Hear, hear.) The best mode of making people acquainted with the arts and with knowledge is to secure to the diffusers of knowledge their reward.— (Hear, hear.) If there is any property in the world which ought to be more secure than another it is the emanations of genius.—(Hear, hear.) In everything I else man requires the aid of some mechanical opera tioi, but in literature the work is exclusively his own— ( Hear, hear)—and as society is mainly based upon the fixedness of property and the security of its transmis sion, surely that principle ought to be applied to the highest and best species of property.—(Hear.) The man who builds a house is allowed to transmit it to his successors—ought not the man who increases the stores of knowledge to derive the benefit of his la bours ?—( Hear, hear.) It is quite idle to talk of this Bill increasing the price of works.—( Hear, hear.) I this is a question se highly interesting in this enlightened age, that it is not creditable that we should hesitate about adopting the Bill. I shall give it my support.— (Hear, hear.) Mr. BAINES thought there was no measure that could possibly be more injurious to the interests of lite rature than this Bill. The author now had the exclu sive right of publishing for twenty-eight years, and it was sought to extend that right to sixty years. Con sider how that would operate on the spread of know ledge. Books would sell dearer than at present after the expiration of the 28 years. Endless litigation would result as to the difficulty of deciding upon the duration of the copyright. The till would apply to Encyclopaedias which had no claim to originality, being mostly compila tions from other works, and suppose that a passage was inserted in the Encyclopaedia, two persons would be disputing as to the right of copyright. He (Mr. Baines) believed that authors generally were quite satisfied with the law as it stood. The duration of the copyright had already been extended by the right of assignment for fourteen additional years. This Bill would have an ex post facto effect by extending to works already published. There was just as much right to take from the author's term 14 years as to deprive the public of 32 years' right—which was the effect of this Bill. As far as he was personally concerned he had an interest in the law of copyright being extended, because he had several productions of his own to which that law applied. The House would therefore understand that he was not arguing this ques tion upon individual interests, but upon personal grounds. He was sure that the House would be of opinion that it was a subject for grave consideration, and one that they would well weigh before they deprived the pub lic of a privilege which they had enjoyed for upwards of 100 years. There could be no doubt that the persons who had petitioned the House were interested parties. In saying that he did not wish to underrate their great abilities, but still he could not lose sight of the fact that they were persons who were interested in the extension of the present law of copyright. He would ask if the House were disposed to extend the privileges of authors to sixty years why should not a similar privilege be ex tended to patents ? What would the House say if a patentee came to them, stating—" You have extended the law of copyright to sixty years, now we have in vented improvements in machinery which required great skill on our part, and we therefore ask you to grant the same indulgence to us." How would the House meet such a request ? It could not deny that such men as Arkwright, Watt, and Sir R. Peel had not conferred as much benefit on society as Sir 'Walter Scott : and if they had conferred as much benefit, they had as much right to expect protection as authors themselves.— : (Cries of " Hear, hear.") His (Mr. Baines') only object was to secure to the public all the benefit.; which they ought to have ; and upon that principle, and upon that principle alone, he was anxious that the law • * should remain unaltered, being convinced that the law, as it at present existed, was quite sufficient adequately to reward authors, and protect the interests of the • public. Mr. WARBURTON rose amidst loud cries of " Divide, divide." The present question was one of too much importance to allow him to let it pass by, without making a few comments. He considered the present measure as an authors' Bill. It was such a Bill as the House might expect to receive from parties who were interested—it was, in fact, such a Bill as a carpenter, a shoemaker, or a stonemason would draw for the protec time of their own interests—it was, in fact, a Bill in which the interests of the public were not at all con • sidered. Now what was the real state of the case ? Why, the House had it in evidence upon its own re . cords in former Committees, that the pecuniary value of the reversion of the copyright, after the expiration of the author's life, or the twenty-eight years was exceedingly small, but what was the interest the public had in the reversion ? Why it extended to them the right to publish works in a cheap form, and such being the case, the interest in the reversion to the public was of inestimable value. Could the Hon. Member who brought forward this Bill ensure , that the authors would not part with their works to publishers, or that their descendants would not ? Was it possible by any arrangement under the present Bill that could be ensured? Certainly not. The House could not prevent authors from falling into distress, or from parting with their copyright in consequence of pecuniary distress. The Hon. and Learned Member had spoken of the public as if the matter was a mere money question ; it was no such thing. What, he would ask, was to be the reward of those who had laid up money in order to educate themselves ?—why that they should participate in the enjoyment of literary pursuits ; hut if the present Bill passed they would be prevented from attaining so laudable an object. What was the effect of this measure if it was not to raise the price of works of authors ? If it did not raise the price it would do nothing for them. If an author was to obtain no more for.his work after twenty eight years than would be a fair return to a publisher for printing the work, it would do authors no good. But it had been assumed through the whole argument, and it was clear that was the only object of the Bill, that it would raise the price of their works, and if it did so, he contended that it would operate as an injury to the public. The present was not a question of money, be cause there would be many works which individuals would feel it to be their interest to re-publish, which brought nothing to the authors, and the ques tion would be whether by the exertions of some booksellers the public should be instructed by the ' publication of some old work entirely out of print, or by works the copyright of which had just expired. It would be easy under that system to prevent a specu lator from re-publishing an important work. It would be easy to reserve a hundred copies on an old shelf, and to say "Oh, here are some copies ready for sale ; you see it is not out of print." Thus the re-publication of the most valuable works might be prevented. There might be many political works of the highest importance which would be of inestimable value if diffused among the community, but which some party or some Govern ment might desire to suppress in order that the public should not be enlightened on matters of the greatest interest to them.—(A laugh.) Those Gentlemen might laugh, as if such things were impossible ; but he believed there were many political tracts of great importance, which some politicians would be exceedingly glad to suppress, particularly if those works promoted Liberal opinions.—( Hear, hear.) Looking, then, at this ques tion as one of the highest importance as regarded the public—as regarded education and its rewards, he hoped the House of Commonv,, which ought to represent the public interests --not th e i n t eres t s o f a class, would not allow the .0111 to pass.—( Hear, hear.) If they did, t hey would prevent the people from enjoying a great part of those advantages which the invention of printing had conferred upon them. If they were to follow the sug gestions of the Hon. Gentleman who sneered so severely at cheap publications, they ought to make works as scarce as they were before the invention of printing, for that would by going but one step beyond the project of raising the price of works to an excessive degree.—(Hear, hear.) H e hoped that at the next stage this Bill would not be brought before the House on a Wednesday for on such nights they saw, by the presene ., House, that many Members of the House, and ts, the Govern ment, who ought to take a part in tb`'..: discussion, were absent. This was a measure w i o . ich was of the highest importance to the public ---not even excepting the Corn-laws.—(Hear.) When the Bill went into Com mittee he trusted_ its clauses would undergo a most care ful discusske'n.—(Hear.) Si': R. INGLIS said the observations of the Hon. eeentleman referred to the copyright, question, as such he thought that under a protection of 28 years the family of an author might gain as much as in the pro posed term of 60 years. Seeing the impatience of the House, he would not detain them longer. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that his Hon. Friend who had just sat down had truly observed that no objection could apply to this Bill which did not apply to copyrights in general. If it could be done consistently with the interests of the author, it would be desirable that every book should be published at a minimum price ; but unless something were added to the price as an encouragement to authors, authors would cease to produce. But, however, he thought On the 22d inst., at Leamiu , ,ton, Mary, relict the that the present term was long enough. The Parker,of York, Esq.,_ of Alkincoats in Learned Gentleman had adduced the case of Mr. n Creed the 23d inst., a.: sq. •anomalous one—but there Ashford, Kent, Henry _ Wordsworth, which was an ston, Esq.radOf Browsholine , liug towe were cases analagous to this in the law. If the Hon. On the 24th inst. Lower-road, Robert Red • s at Suffolk-place, , f e le' Gentleman were to propose that the Privy Council 7 Es aoed 67. should extend the duration of patents, the evil he com- __On tb.e 23d inst., Boley bk - plained of might be remedied, but he would maintain armed 12 . eldest daughter of Captain Th that, considering the interests of the public, the mini- On the John hill, Rochester, daughter of ' only should be held out: as an inducement Esq. otl:ie„-oth dist., Susanna, seconddaug aged 2 ' , tr eet,' mum price to authors. As an instance of the advantage of the dif-,t UPyCr Bedford-place, Russell-square,, Benfick-s On the 2,ath inst., at his residence, " No. '" f e N an fusion of cheap editions he would refer to the copies of Manches‘ B • Ott• B - er Esq., ,tr_square, aijet • at . ] , 00 4 , Paley's Natural Theology----an invaluable work, which Antietee, aeee 79. 0' had been sold lately at 6d . . or Is. a number. No doubt w; " r i 46161. "" 1.1.11 " .2 770 44 r11 Y" ' the wi,tAd of many a man, in dwelling with the mo s t -ondoo: Printed and Published by , Stra n 1-14' I No. 112 , Strand, at 77 Sun O ffi ce. 1- ,; Q fal anxiety on the most important of all questions, Wits t le of socrnar_levu he ',entity of it•litllesex.—Thursday, Febra'ArY 404 cleard up and relieved by the perusal of this work , and directed in a satisfactory train of inquiry,—(He ar ' hear.) Let not Hon. Gentlemen think that this was an unimp or t ant subject.--( Hear, hear.) The subject surely could not he unimportant which involved the power of withholding from, or supplying to, the public in an easy and accessible form standard works of to; q rality and r e li g i on , an d, as aux ili ary to t h ose , of goo taste and correct feeling.—(Hear, hear.) He admitted that it was an unfortunate condition in the production of such works that such a reward should be held out to . authors ; but h e cau ti one d t h em aga i nst b e i ng s educed by the speech of his eloquent friend, from exercising their sound judgment upon this most important question. His Hon. and Learned Friend had stated that persons now read works under a sense of injustice, because they felt they were robbing parties of what was the!! property. Upon that subject he totally differed from his i Hon. and Learned Friend, and with those who had fol lowed him, i nc l u di ng t h e H on. an d L earne d member for Dublin. What he calls property is what is ire• plied in the law as the exclusive right of m ultiplYing copies —that is not the production of the brain, but the exclusive creation of the brain—and th e analogy which he put forward to the House of th e right which a person had in his character appeared to him (the Solicitor-General) to bear very little o n the question. Persons were protected by the law in 0 0 characters, and they were protected in their lleAse s. He would sit down by saying he should We i se this Bill bec a u se no case had been e to show that the present term was not sufficient , al' though he considered there ought to be no copyright at all, except such as would induce the production of books' —( Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR o f t h e EX C HEQVg said that, differing as h e did f rom t h e pr i nc i p l e s is t down by his Hon. and Learned Friend t:ne General, and the conclusion to which he had come(_: (lid not think it w ou ld b e f a i r to hi mself or to the l'ltT, if he did not st a t e th e groun d s on wh i ch he shou ld v°' for the Bill. They had got an admission from his and Learned Friend that some law of copyrighlt r essential. He contended it was a question salle t " b ' , the amount of protection at present given eras ene a n g and the recital of the facts which his Hon. - and L eitr- b e e Friend (Sergeant Talfourd) had raade to t . t ," House that night, proved that 'ander the ;,;/ isting state of the law the raotection was no adequate.—(Hear, hear.) No one could be Pi o eager and anxious for the diffusion of knowledge th o t he was, but i n th e fi rst i nstance that knowledge Inert be created, and if men of the highest eminenne!• n g left without adequate reward the inducement to u fl ;,. forward literary talent for the creation of ke% ledge was diminished.—(Hear, hear.) But again,l l s 4 respect to the cheapness of the knowledge? Whal ai l been the phenomena going on under their own el:, Had books b ecome c h eaper or dearer since the ene sion of the copy r i g h t i n 1814 ? Was it not within to knowledge of every individual that books had bee a , cheaper since that ti me , were d a i ly becoming 0164 ' 0i and were becomi ng more accessible to the 1110 of mankind. It was t h e i nterest of the Pera°ot who published, whether he was an a uthor „ 4 , a bookseller, t o p r i nt t h e b ooks in a cheap 611,1/5a The same moti ve wou ld continue to operate, and greater the circle of literature was among the 11 0 110 1 classes, the more certain might they be that the nu for nis own sake, and with a view to his own inter°o Would print his book in as cheap a shape as possibl e d order to make it accessible to the public. He itnPr d a the House not to refuse to the ar.thor, in his last?) ments, that shar e o f rewar d whic:o he might have et A l by his industry and talent. Hon. and Let 4 l Friend h a d sa id, th at if t h ere was anything in theilro of Mr. Wordsworth, th, e way to meet it would b e d , give a p o w er t o the Privy Coun c il t o exten d the 1 4 , right. Why, that was an argument against the ev",, ing state 9f ti le l aw , an d i t was an additional . !, ment favour of his Hon. and Learned Fri I3:ll.—(Hear, hear, hear.) If the law o f c0p)17 4 0 were even abolished altogether they might depend : ,, u r o t it that publish ers an d b oo k se l lers would be able, 3F'OO themselves, t o crea t e a spec i es of copyright that sf°,4t raise the price of books. One word more before lIV down. The Honourable Member for Bridport ) Ig o complained that the discussion upon this 1 3111 , 1 brought o n u p on a W e d nes d ay, and had as'istilis Hon. and L earne d F r i en d to f i x some other do yrelo4 discussi o n, o f i t . H e b egged of his Honou ruble •o°, Learned F r i en d not to atten d to any such sliggke°t because if h e fi xe d upon any other order day., tu e „idbe ment he got up, probably 11 o'clock, there W e ; arsi, a complaint th a t a su bj ect o f such vast importeneole to be brought on at that late hour, and the: Bill o as t perhaps be indefinitely postponed without; the go chance of its being passed this Session:a -4 blie hear, and cheers.) The Bill was of grist, P ose importa nce ; th ey h a d no r i ght to assume thip iiis t i t gentlemen who felt an interest either for it or et 0 80 would not attend in their places, and ino engeg",4y t would prevent him attending to give it his suPP ° any time.—(Hear, hear.) ous e Strangers were ordered to withdraw. The divided, when there appeared— For the second reading of the Bill 73 Against it 37 • Majority On our re-entering, we found give Mr. WARBURTON itating that he wo uld 7 , a ilo every oppositi on t h e f orms of the House: wouTAb: to the furth er pass i ng of the Bill—(Cries °' deo oh!")—be cause h e t h ought it should twit be P r°e %erc with on a day when the Ministers of th e Crown seldom present. COMMITTEE OF sioppLY. s ll The Hous e th en went i nto a Committee of Mr. BERNAL in the Chair. 80 A sum of 2,000 , 0001 . ( we believe) wag vote d , transfer, in a id o f the out-standin g Exchequer Bi l tiol Mr. HUME wou ld take that opportumity of !a' notice th a t upon an early day he would move "r tbe separate account be pre vented of all issues fro Treasury o f E xc h equer' Bills for Public Works• end accounts were at grese•nt kept in a confused mann er ' there was much roe.m for improvement. 0.0 0 The CHANCELLOR o f t h e EXCITE— t hat begged to assure h i s Hon. Friend and the Houser tbe he was most auxious to do all in his power to rends tlqi accounts as simple as possible. He would take r/1 10 opportunity o f stat i ng to the House that he ha d any manner departed from the old practice le n ''''sf out the public accounts. Such a charge " found e d. the t Mr. HUME believed the charges made egsii' 6 / 0 01 Right Hon. Gentleman were not for altering the 0 d of keeping and making out the accounts ; it - was ° V a more serious nature. It was that durir,g t h : o s t o year he had a dd e d b etween two and thref;mil Os' the debt of the country without the sac.etioe %Ole' House. That was the charge, and he (11 .1 Ir. nutil-r; to lieved it wa s true.--(A laugh.) H e did not rel cliu say that the operation was not a propel. one. """00 not mean to say that four millions of f;xchequee d ioo; could h ave b een b oug h t cheaper on the day in fl ue n - u t nor that it was not essent i al to take ttrat amount "clog° the ma r k e t, b ut b e compla i ned that h a d been fog without the express sanction of Quit House' sr Session m us t not b e a ll owed to viss without „ tern being altered, for at present any Chancellor ft o (' Exche quer cou ld a dd to the funded debt and that P know nothing of it for some time. TheCHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQG'-',;, s e ' we."s stated that th e form of makin g out t h e p v Y". - haP," counts had b een a lt ere d , and that in their r,ge"' o l) l , l° they did no t g i ve t h at f ull information which the roe' had a ri g ht t o d eman d ; b ut the charge vax,infoo The transaction referred to was 'perfretlT legal'„,od Act that was p asse d i n 1 827 authoriz e d Ir; t ie to make th e o p erat i on , an d i t was esAntn un i c ateu t" House as soon as possible. 1, p° Mr. HUME o bj ec t e d to t h e.: passing of the be was then told that his atorrAiension.s were e°111 '; groundless,for that no Chancel:i ar of the 7Zxchecie e T io s dare to add to the funded • debt without the sa ille t 'd° that House. He brd fieved it had never been t ic t oe r. before, and the T That House "..der ought to have no suell,r„ tb e , uer such a system were a dding ' l ' ta the burden of f - :„'", ' people in the dark. It was fears for sme th.,ng of the same kind was going on. nevi' Thos war, we ll k nown t h at our expend i ture exce eded:jos ',.lorne, and the deficiency could not be made UP some resource. Adjourned at a Quarter to Eight o'clock. SILVER WATCHES TWO GUINEAS 1 1 t r i An Assortment of Second-hand Watches, aIA of t he 'lor ranted, and of various sizes, may be selee'ced from' above price, at T. COX SAVORY'S, 0 111.. Working Silversmith, G o ld sm ith, and Watchmaker, 47 ; t ). s hill, London (Seven D oors from Graceckurch-stre' the; N.B. A pamphlet, cont a i n i ng a sletailed list of 01%; I% of Plate, Plated Goods, Watches, Clocks, &c. , l n/Y acat i o " gratis, er will be forwarded i n answer to a post-paid Or 0 BIRTHS. t i, • 1 4 On the 23d inst., at Grove Park,, near Warwick, " ' the Hon. Lady Dormer, of a son. ~ d oh ri , On the 13th of December, at Nil Kerr Hills, PO f AO, lady of G. H. Pitt, Esq., of the Bombay Civil Ser tice , ° ,tobir'' On the 21st inst., at the Rectory, Rimpton, `Soilli f9- , the Hon. Mrs. M aur i ce, of a son. ------- ne t I D On the 26th i ns t., at St. MARRIE James's Chmreh, flenrh An the Y ne, ° ltle9 t son of the l a t e Willi am Gi lpin, Esq., t' Mary daughter of the late Matthew Hollatut, F,sq. i :• s,~ 4a. , i k - t , t., 1 4 # ' ~r !: ~: , I. . ' 4„, 5 --, C i ''