The Sun. — London, England, 1844-03-13 00:00:00

----- _ f iition ° Conn ell, vas far , to rt aPP e , l3cl 104: ea • 4 . • igr. isistea 01 abt t b3t le Iron. JurP i ' (Fr MARKET INTELLIGENCE. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. f m t h e , . Su e , Lonafin New Price Current of Meech 12.) th e a•-• There has been less desire shown on the part of HOUSE OF LORDS, March 12. The LOAD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at , trnadaeri%onirchase West India Sugar sin •e Tuesday la•t ; the de Five o'clock. GWALIOR. eas es u has been limited for all cl, serf lions and in some V ilest rather lower - ' ' • e The Earl of RIPON laid on the table of the House certain rates accented. I o-day the quantity of "" India Muscovado Sugar on show was somewhat larger ; g r ocer s a d papers relating to Gwalior. th e o refiners however pnrchrsed with much caution, and CORN-LAWS. A rat eS Clay Week taken were decidedly 6sl to ls. u: der those cf this Petitions in favour of protection for agriculture were pre sented by rho Duke of Richmond from Yorkshire, and the b ste it e e t e i r C. -To -day there was little business transacted in 4...441; browßnar'mated that he did not agree wish the prayer of the petition,. for home consumption, a: prices arc still going In answer to a question from Lord CAMPBELL, 'onlara L saleable Lumps selling at 75s Gd to 765, and The LORD CHANCELLOR said he should proceed with taken "Ifs 77s per cwt. Bonded Crushed Sugar was , spariool • the Feclesiestical Courts Bill on Friday next. 'l , laln y. e.), and KGs per cwt is the current rate for first 111 4 , a Lord CAMPBELL wished also to put a question to the Plibli , er ius•-This afternoon the biddings were languid at a Noble and Learned Lord respecting a particular portion of that dent Sale x_4,651 • . • ei„ tio bags, and prices declined Is per cwt fur all. Bill, he meant that part relating to the granting_ of probates or wills• Ho would wish to know if his Noble and Learned fd, "3 64',0Zlowyellow 59s to 60s 6,1, mid 61s to 625, good ' 6 d toe s 6d, fine 65s to 665, low grcy 59s to 59s 6d, mid Friend ' intended this to apply in cases of Si. when a probate Nel 5- l a 6d, good 62s to 645, low mid brown 545, and . had been taken out , bonaJpe. Ens 1 1 srer cwt. 1 The LORD CHANCELLOR said this was a most im d perhaps the best course for his Noble Friend Iter- m INDIA --This afternoon importers of Bengal Sugar port d ant Bill, l and go o 7, _ ore desirous to realise. Fine white sold at Ells to 695, !oa opt be to allow the Bill to pass, and then he might 675, raid introduce w a o n u o ( ther Bill to extend its operation. n t: 6 6 3 l t° d 64s to 63 .- s, low 63., low yellow 575, mid I L d BROUGHAM said he had made many attempts to re 1s Whits fid, good strong Db h 64s rid to 665, dam brown i " r t ' e n 1) a ' .p .. model the law on this subject, but had been frustrated by party ve -1,64 to 6 , inf.) and washed 63s to 695. eellow ditto 3es 6d , interests. a‘ u,s In bond, mostly sold at and since the sale, good 1 METROPOLITAN IMPROVEMENTS. 3 'elloe s ~P 1 s to 425, middling 38s 6d to 395, middling strong I i The Marquis of NORMANBY, seeing that the Govern team 3 u, a s 6d to 335, good 34s to 365, grey 32s 6d to 35s 6d, Iwere about bringing in a Bill in the other House, i meat pi - a 1 6d to 385 6(1, washed 25s to 33s per cwt. , I for the purpose of regulating the different buildings and kig er ° x " .- To-clay there was no public sale of Forei n ; wishedaskwhether they ''' ' improvements in the metropolis, to Lot seee privately little business was done, but holders would intended to extend this to the other parts of the country. He 4 0LA P_t lower rates. also would ask in what state the irnprocements in the Victoria 'andacted .s I West India little busincsa has been trans- Park, about being constructed in the east-end of the metropolis I9s Rood previous rates are barely sustained. Bengal Syrup were at present. PaidCoc e ,g ua ti,tY• . Cuba Honey taken in at COs er cwt. The Duke of BUCCLEUCH could not answer the latter L Inlva•tl ()reign is held firmly. To-day higher rates were question of his Noble Friend. It was not at present the inten ' 4,60 e y for West India Cocoa ; fine red Trinidad sold at lion of the Government to extend the provisions of the Metro 111 j et , 3 1 and good 55s to 57s per cwt. The stock is nearly Ile dealer ' p litan Buildings Act to other large towns in the kingdom. R ic ,. s hands. ° many large towns there were local Acts affecting buildings 4 larfr:"----The transactions privately in Bengal have been to in n these particular towns, and it would, therefore, be impolitic cle s , l l l' d e e t r e:it in all descriptions, and firm rates paid. Carolina to pass any general measure which might affect those local Acts. earoli o " at 21s to 245, and 26s per cwt. This afternoon , fhe Marquis of NORNIANBY would suggest to his Noble R om , Rice from New York taken in at 18s 6d per cwt for Friend the propriety of at least. applying some of the provisions -eourfpelit white. of the Bill to large towns in the kingdom, for the purpose of latel y i E„R.---Purchases to a fair extent have been made si- . • • t le " 41 ' V est India Coffee,rather I' 1 prices paid ass de _ e , and ng str The Marquis of SALISBURY did not think the provisions eip a n . s riptsons; the business done has, however, been prin. f this Bill would remedy the evil of which the Noble Marquis Itreeie r „ a fnongst the dealers For Foreign the advanced rates ° • complained. Ceyioo""Y established are . fully supported. This afternoon . batch , r eet with l ess attent i on, b ut holders remained firm. 1,4`-earapany's Java, good ord pale yellow at 53s to Ms. ere legs To•day merchants displayed firmness, but the trade i desirous The at to purchase. The public sales attracted only ole de tendanee of dealers ; in all 10,783 pkgs were put up, gin eti ,mand was limited for black and green Teas, and of the tet e , .Y offered only 2,600 pkgs were actually sold,but former hi,„ ',ere sust • "ght eine or ngou and wan ay. d f Co T - k Orange Pekoe .. a small advance. 11' u ", Ba s .est hid. BRANDY, AND HOLLA,NOS.-All descriptions of °` Id a,,,, 1a Rum have found ready purchasers at an advance taisk a r gallon on last Tuesday's prices for every sort. Je t° g sed ' it 3 5 4sl to 4s 3d for 30 to 37 per cent overproof of fair * Ns a t rl e ual itY ; fine in small parcels at 43 6J to 5s 6d. Lee -413 to ass 2ilto 2s 3d proof, and good and fine Demerara at L. 14 t a d per gallon. Calcutta Rum is in ,request, at b ''' the Brandy'° Ild per gallon for proof with certificate. i a rds ,-. market the general tendency of prices is up ,3 lid 'ognac, best brands of the vintage of 1838, hhds at 'NO, lid, 5s 9d • ditto, 1839, hhds 5s Bd, puns 5s tid ; ditto, 0 4 uhd , • tIS A 8 • ) 8 6d, puns 5s 4d; ditto, 1841, !lids 5s sd, 41d infos 3d; ditto, 1842, hhds ha 4d, puns 5s 2d; tbe ~rior and middling marks 3s to 4s 6d per gallon : 1 0 "erlde e , Os, Yof prices is upwards for the younger descrip. s ulee ag s - i e eneva for exportation at Is 10d to Is lld ; fine for 'A t, - i 13 fetching 2s 4d to 3s per gallon. English Corn Z,'')ris t , ° ,geod demand, at lOs 2d per gallon cash. To. •` 21 3e' all descriptions was much inquired for ; 2s lid „ele et ,_ ; Paid for proof Leewards, and Is lld for proof 4 i i. 4 there are not further sellers of the latter under Pet 'Se Demerara 37cent f • t landed,3s 3d g e n o . erara per overproo , just • sac n refused, P a aliti e ° ;" -- Tlle demand is brisker a n d p r i ces fi rm ; common g o at Flo I4s to 16 s , an d 18s for small old white Pea r l te s t4k our at 19s to 195 6d per cwt. This afternoon Sago j ) .ave sh e° . i n, good large b r i g ht P ear l a t 17 s Gd t o 18 s, b e i ng 4 4e ' value, Tapioca taken in at 51d to 7d per lb for good k 'Nbi i:Palli:P' s- FOr E as t I n di a previous, prices are well sustain e d. 'ill Pw 4 I ' scarce ' and much wanted; the tende nc y o f p r i ces i s oara s. )2/ 1 4...... p er t For Sperm Oil higher rates paid; British at 70! to le sf u n- All common Fish Oils at firm rates ; Pale Seal t'ases c , e ° „ s /, Cod 33/ 10s to 34/, Southern 32/ to 34/per tun. ale at 'II at 27s to 27s 3d per cwt on the spot. Rape Oil, le 3 5s ea se o il to 365, and brown 34s Sel to 35s per cwt. For (‘ to', a,dvanced rates paid Itop fetching 471, Spanish li ll kt 2 - ' 9 4, , and Barbary 42/ 42/ lOs per tun. Cocoa Nut 4th A S t o 32a per cwt. Palm, fine 28s to 28s 6d per cwt. Te st " 4ll eri - can Lard 411 to 421 per tun. j; p Forl, W.--- Russian Tallow on the spot, stiffer rates 8. , ' e el ' . I • Candle at 40s 9d to 41s, and small parcels at 41s 3d 'te e ' Crf delivery 41 3d to 41s 6d per cwt for the last 1. 0 leonth at s . . 0 0O 'll Tall s of the year ; American at 33s to 38s pe cwt; -11 D . b ow at 40s 6d to 41s per cwt. net cash. This r after- Candle i 41s to 41s 3d on the spot, for prime. 0 Tu r ,_ "Ikti l i si t i 'DAY NIGHT'S GAZETTE. ~.„ 'n , by the Lord-Lieutenant of the County Palatine of ) eLi Lancaster. 1, 4 y, h nke of Lancaster's Own Regiment of Yeomanry Ca to A, c..‘kbdale Troop-A. H. Royds, Esq., to be Captain ; be re`a°k, Feb, to be Lieutenant ; W. E. Royds, Gent., Kernet, Fb. 27. , ge.,,'inrnissio by the Lord-Lieutenantof Dor etshire 1 I,_ ' , se, ,-, n s . . Yee ° k'svn Regiment of Yeomanry-W. G. Pitt, Gent., 1 suet, M arc h 5. tls p ° SElati BANKRUPTS. t s ., , h 2 1, S CHOLEFIELD, cutler, Cheapside, to surrender 1400, 1 at eleven, and April 19, at two, at the Court of tano.e.e,,eY• Belcher, official assignee ; Shield and Harwood, WlLi:a te s e , t , , Cheapsi4. qtot e h, - ' ,l l SMITH, printer, Strand, March 22, at half oor_,oand .April 26, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. ~ ktr:: o fficial asslgnee, Basinghall-street ; Webber, Caro- It . I 40,, 1, Bedford -square ' 4 4 MA ADAII ' . • ' e,,,,th 1 0, .I, publican, Newport, Isle of Wight, lett tit , s at twelve, and April 23, at half-past twelve, at the 7, oiiilankruptcy. Edward., official assignee, Frederick's 414,,IIARLibewrY ; Foster, Jermyn-etreet, St. James's. n e eli 2 0 -cS EICK E, iron rivet manufacturer, Rotherhithe, h al ;n't of i, at half-past eleven, and Ap r il 24, at one, at the q s tr„„' a oltruptcy. Johnson, official assignee, Basinghall asL4T,; Taylor Clement's-lane, Lombard-,trect. 4 ai a - " RN ON ' ' RKE ' rehant Jewin-crescent, .It re SI A , wine me . , s4 i St t wo et, City, March 19, at half-past twelve, and April Ple t . 4 ° , at the Court of Bankruptcy. Johnson, official I4l'vlLL'i Chisholm, Cook's-court, Lincoln's Inn. bi s r th ee , A AI BOTT, silk throwster, Macclesfield, Cheshire, Ahl t i ' ., iet Co t WelVe and April 22, at one, at the Manchester 4 tt, er'n"• Stanway, ' officinal as.ignee, Manchester ; ' l lth 'barl • Th ester ctte-street, Bedford-square, London; Bennett, nisi4llA- le , S MILLAR, hosier, Liverpool, March 27, and SP,. ee, iat the M anc h ester Di str i ct C ourt. Putt, official ill s, tondanehester; Abbott, Charlotte -street, Bedford lite 41 4 e4„° ; Bennett, Manchester. 't, u A1...0P r Ilanchester, March 22, at e pt ar id . . s , groce , s kt, , r _ n•pril 23, at one, at the Manchester District weath:re, official assignee, Manchester ; Johnson,, Sons, 4111esserran, Temple; Hitchcock, Buckley ; and 1 idswell, b qrh Ett N„ ti„' , a, A i C ROWDER, iron founder, West Auckland, ",se:: 1 1p 0e 4 , 1 ' 0 1 22, at two, and April 30, at one, at the New `atOtle„;', " Inc District Court. Baker, official assignee, lf .r -la s , I y e • Steavenson, Darlington; Burn, Great 20 ILL e ' boct ' ~ ‘ ' As , , ors -commons. Nelda, :" NAIITH smallwareman, Nottingham, March 4 tat i'nt oa ' ktli on, ..-,., at eleven, at the Birmingham District Court. ,qi til,,,imeial Essignee, Birmingham ; Cowley, Nutting- SelolNebarn and Giddey, Birmingham. e t :',„26 , 3 / 4 , WOOD, banker, Ingram, Northumberland, Pe s., 'er i ' e - ` t wo, and April 30, at twelve, at the Newcastle. "lc bet_l),lstriet Court. Wakley, official assignee, New kolleeet. NY" ; Nicholls and Doyle, Bedford-sew, Lon :,llt4e, iiillQ-evveastle-upon-Tyne. pt lereh qLIMBERT, shopkeener, Boroughbrisige, York "sy,' Y on " 9 and April 26, at eleven, at the Leeds District I,Cll',ltie Ig, official assignee, Leeds ; Williamson and Co., 'ases`'llen,, °ll dori ; Blanchard am'. Co., York. )a s :2 2,e , :''' ALLANBY STOREY, corn merchant, Leeds, 'et e '•`qes i, "nd May 1, at eleven , at the Leeds District Court. alt en a ° , te lal assigee, Leeds ' • Summers, Princes-street, 4. a, l 'l s lre, London ; Ray, Leeds. Olsktes , ° TICES OF INSOLVENCY. kotseey, rblican, Heaton Norris, Manchester. liklt et k t ,g,.._a• and straw salesman, Woolwich. 4 , 4 k , : r e Cr, Tiverton, Devonshire. 4 . q 'iro4e4'ngrocer Grosvenor-row. Pimlico. qat e C e ; baker, S'outhampton. • li 7 sa ,lifeth ' °reach maker, Castle.street, Tonbridge. y 11,,, , . e 0 ,, 8 ' victualler, Llanelly, Carmarthenshire. L owe*); fernission agent, Bexley-heath, Kent. ii,'ll sv t, l, tattnP trimmer on the Brighton Railway, Croydon. Ite k,Ne, tool keeper, Llanrwst, Denbighshire. 4:A l .' 4 s, ("' m anufacturer, Coaley, Gloucestershire. \ , e (1 td,), !qur, Cwnicarvan, Monmouthshire. 4.ANl4,"•lliterer, Prospect-place, Old Kent-road. In a ikee , heogineer, Landport, Portsmouth. 4' Q. t alo, backster, Wolverhampton, Staffordshire. liikewlaekert"qher, Kirkby Ravensworth, Yorkshire. k',llapaptds) fa tailor, Topsham, Devonshire. "111 4raioer, Llanarmon in Yale, Denbighshire. 3 it. 'r, er, nh,am ope Flintshire. Chelte . L The remainder to-morrow. 1 much to blame, was also to be tried by reason of his vio lation of duty. About that time a measure was in c ontempla tion by the Commander-in-Chief to repress it, and t was de termined that those officers should be tried under /he new arrangement, and as both violated their duty-one in a most unjustifiable manner -the Commander-in-Chief chose to punish them in a manner not uncommon in the army-. that was arrest at la rge , w ith ou t b e i ng a ll owe d t o join - the mess, wear their swords, or attend on parade. Under those cir cumstances, the Commander-in-Chief, as their arrest had continued so long, meant to release them immediately aster a suitable admonition. Captain BERNAL asked was it not the case that, by the Articles of War, no officer could he kept under arrest more than eight days without being brought under a court-martial ? Sir HENRY HARDINGE said an officer might be kept under arrest a longer time by his commanding officer or the Commander-in-Chief. COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS. Sir VALENTINE BLAKE put the following questions (of which he had given notice) to the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary for the Home Department :- I. Was it his intention to introduce a clause or clauses into his Bill for regulating the Medical Colleges and the Medical De grees of Universities, by which it will be enacted, that hence forth the College of Physicians in London will be enabled to prevent any physician from practising in any part of Ev gland unless he be possessed of the license of the College of Physi cians in London ? 2. If this power be given by the Bill to the College of Phy sicians, is it intended that medical graduates of Edinburgh and of Dublin Universities, at present practising in England, short be admitted licentiates of the College in London without exa mination, on the payment of a small fee, say 51., the additiou al stamp duty being altogether remitted ? 3. Was it his intention to modify the charter lately granted to the College of Surgeons of London, so as to allow prescribing surgeons, who practice midwifery, to be eligible for the le How ship; and also to allow a surgeon-apothecary to become is nme diately eligible on abandoning the business of an apothecary ? Sir JAMES GRAHAM said there might be an incou veni ence in going into details in answer to the Hon. Ban net's questions. The object of the measure he should introduce was not to impose new restrictions on medical prac titioners, but to relax the restrictions already existing. He hoped this would be a satisfactory answer to the two first questions. With respect to the last question, a practitioner of midwifery was not, as such, eligible as a member of the College of Surgeons, and he had no intention of, in that respect,, modi fying the charter of the College. In answer to a question from an Hon. Member, Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he should bring in the mea sure immediately before Easter, or directly afterwards. DUTIES ON IMPORTS. Mr. COBDEN then rose to bring forward his motion for a Select Committee to inquire into the effects of protective duties on imports on the interest of the tenant-fareuers and farm labourers of this country. He said-Sir, the motion I have to make is one which I believe is not ordinarily refused; it is one for a select Committee to sit up stairs, to take evi dence of an important nature on a question that ex cites great controversy out of deors, and which I believe is likely to excite considerable discussion in this _House. It may be said that my motion might have been appropriately placed in other hands. lam of that opinion too. I think it might have been more appropriately brought forward by a Gen tleman on the other side of the House, particularly by a Gen tleman connected with the counties of Wiltshire or Dorsetshire. Though I am not yet acquainnted with the grounds on which I may he opposed, I think it right to state that I intend my motion to be for the interests of the agricultural classes as much as any Honourable Gentleman opposite could pretend it to be, and that the principles which I advocate are calculated to do justice to them as much as to any other portion of the community. I wish to have it known that I take my stand this night as the especial advocate of the agriculturists ; and in bringing forward this motion I submit, in the first place, that it is not usual for this House to refuse the appointment of Committees on important questions. We have instances of Committees being appointed to take evidence as to the importation of silk, the exportation of machinery, the navigation laws, and on all questions of similar importance. It must also be admitted that such Committees are also appointed without the parties more immediately concerned having, in the first instance, petitioned the House for their appoint ment. On the appointment of the Committee relative to the exportation of machinery, the motion was granted, not at the instance of manufacturers who had a monopoly of ma chinery, but by parties whose interests were more particularly affected by the then existing laws. Ido not therefore antici pate that any just grounds can be stated why the Committee should be refused because petitions have not been presented de manding it. I shall now state what my conduct shall be on entering that Committee. I shall be prepared to bring impor tant evidence forward before that Committee showing the effects of the protection, as it is called, to th e agr i cu lt ur i sts b y the examination of farmers themselves. I will, in fact, not bring forward a single witness before that Com mittee who will not be a tenant-farmer or a lauded proprietor.- (Hear, hear.) The opinion which I shall hold on entering the Committee is, that the protection, as it is called, instead of being beneficial, is delusive and injurious to the tenant-farmers, and that opinion I shall be prepared to sustain by the evidence of tenant-farmers themselves. I wish it to be understood I do not admit that what is called protec tion to agriculturists has ever been any protection at all to them, but, on the contrary, I hold that its only effect has been to mislead them.-(Hear, hear.) I have recently read over again the evidence taken before the first Corn-law Committee of 1815, and I leave it to any man to say whether it was not con tended at that time that sufficient protection could not be given to the agriculturists unless they got 80s. a quarter for wheat.-( Hear, hear.) I wish to remind the Hon. Member ' for Wiltshire whetoer it was not at that period thought that wheat could not be grown in this country, unless the farmers got 965. a quarter, or 12s. a bushel for it, while now the Ministry are only willing to give the farmers a rate of 56s a quarter. It is denied that this House has ever promised to guaran tee prices for their produce to the farmers. Now, what was the custom of the country from the passing of the Corn-law in 1815 ? Why, 1 will bring old men before the Committee who will state, that farmers valued their farms from that time by a computation of wheat being at eighty shillings a quarter. I can also prove that Agricultural Societies, that met in 1821, came to resolutions declaring that they were deceived by the Act of 1815, from which calculations were made at the rate of wheat being at 80s., while, in fact, it was only at 435. I can also prove that, in the Committee which was esta blished in 1836, the witnesses stated that they had been deceived in the price of their corn ; and I will ask the Right Honourable Baronet at the head of the Government whether, at the present moment, rents were not fixed rather with reference to certain Acts that were passed, than any intrinsic worth of the farmers ? I know that the pre sent is a subject which causes some little irritation ; but I will ask whether farms under the Corn-law Bill are not valued at corn being 80s. a bushel. In consequence of the alteration that was made since the last Act, tenant-farmers have been valued on the ground of corn being 565. a quarter. Now, I know an instance where a party occupying his own land, was rated at a certain amount-viz., at the amount of the valuation of corn being 565. a quarter, while, in fact, it was selling at 475., and upon his asking why he had been so rated, he was told that the parties did not know, but they suppo se d it was i n consequence of what the Prime Minister had stated was the price of corn. What I want to go into Committee for is, to convince the far mers, once for all, that thi s H ouse h as not t h e power to regu late the price of their commodities. The Right Hon. Gentle man stated to me that he could not regulate the wages of the labourer, or the profits of the manufacturers or traders ; and if he could not guarantee any tixed profits, how could the House possibly fix the price of agricultural commodities? Now the first point to which I should wish to make this Com mittee instrumental w ill be in fixing in the minds of the farmers the fact that this House exaggerates its power to raise and enhance prices.---( Hear.) The prices of agricultural produce have never been, up to that point, legislated for and guaranteed by this House, and it is on that main point that I wish to have a settled and sound opinion given to the country. The farmer's interest is that of the whole community, and is not a partial interest-(Loud cheers)-and you cannot touch him more sen sitively than when you injure the manufacturers, his cus tomers.-(Cheers.) I do not deny that you may regulate prices for awhile-for awhile you have regulated them by forcing an artificial scarcity; but in so doing you have only sown the seed by which you destroyed your own power and prosperity, for you carried on a war against nature.- (Loud cheers.) You may produce by this means the ruin of trade, the bankruptcy of capitalists ; but is this con sistent with the interest of the farmer ? These are the fun damental principles which I wish to bring out, and with this primary view it is that I ask for a Committee at your hands. -(Cheers.) Now, with regard to other monstrous fallacies with which the farmers have been beset and latterly more so than ever, the Committee I ask for would elicit the truth upon them, and also upon other most important questions. The farmer has been told that if there was a free trade in corn, corn would be so cheap that he would not be able to carry on his farm. He is directed only to look at Dantzic, where corn is selling at 15s. 11d. per quarter, and on this the Essex Protection Society put out their circu lars, stating that Dantzic wheat in England is but 15s. 11d. per quarter, and how would the British farmer contend against this.-(A laugh.) Now I maintain that these state ments are not very creditable to the parties who propagate such nonsense, nor to the understandings of the farmers who listen to and believe them.--( Laughter.) The truth, I suppose, is what all men desire to arrive at. Now the farmer will very easily be disabused on this and other points if you will grant me the Committee I seek, for there we shall be governed in our statements by the tests of experience, . and not by the mere predictions of interested partisans. We know what the price has been in the Channel Islands when the trade is free. These islands send corn to this country, and they receive foreign corn duty free.-(Hear, hear.) Sir, I know of no better test of what the price of corn in this country would be in a state of free trade than the prices in the island of Jersey furnish, taken for a number of years, com prising a cycle of high and low prices in that country. We know that the fluctuation of prices in that country embracre the fluctuations of the whole of Europe, and therefore I think we could have no better test of what the effect of free trade upon prices would be here. We have papers on the table showing what the prices of corn were in - Jersey in the ten years, from 1832 to 1841, inclusive. The average price was in those ten years 48s. 4d. What do you think was the average price in your own markets, in those years ? It was 565. Bd.-(Hear, hear.) Now, I have taken some pai n s t o ascer t a i n th e op i n i ons o f those who best understand this subject, and I find that the greater de mand for labour in this country would raise the price of corn here to three or four shillings above the price in Jersey with out the danger of throwing land out of cultivation.-(Oppo sition cheers, and Tory counter-cheers.) What I would gentlemen say that the difference between 51s. and 565. Bd. would throw land out of cultivation, ruin the farmers, and pauperise the labourers ?-(Cheers.) But in years of high prices, the farmers do not receive the high prices for their corn. n the contrary, they sell their corn at the lowest prices, and the speculator sells his at the highest.-(Loud cheers.) A short time ago I met a miller from near Winchester, who said to me," I think I can give you some practical information on this subject," and he took Out his book and told me the prices which he paid every year for the corn which he purchased before the harvest and after the harvest during five years. What he paid for the load of five quarters, in August, 1839, was 191. 10s. ; in November of that year it was 16/. the load. In August, 1840, the price was 18/. the load ; in Octo ber, 141. 15s. In August, 1841, 19/. the load; October, 15/. In August, 1842, 17 guineas the load ; September, 121. hs In July, 1843, 17 guineas; September, 121. 10s. I think this may show that the farmers do not gain by the increase of the price, butthat they sell at the lowest price of the market. Now, Sir, there is another point upon which as much misre presentation exists as upon.the one I have just stated, namely, the price at which corn could be grown abroad. The price of wheat at Dantzic during those ten years to which I have referred was 405., and if you add to it the freight of Bs., it will corroborate the statement I have made with regard to the price at which wheat has been sold at Jersey. -(Hear, hear.) Another point upon which misrepresentation has gone abroad, relates to the different items of expenditure in bringing wheat to this country. We have had cost for freight at various periods, but we have not had full accounts of the other items of expenditure.--( Hear, hear.) It would be im portant to elicit as much information as possible upon this subject, and the best means of arriving at it would be to examine practical men from the City before a Select Com mittee of the House, as to the cost of transit.- ( Hear, hear.) As far as I could obtain information from the books of merchants, the cost of transit from Dantzic may be put down at half-a-guinea, including, in this freight, land- I ing, loading, insurance, and other item s o f every kind. This is DISSENTERS' PROPERTY. Lord COTTENHAM presented a petition from the Dis senters of Dublin, praying that the Bill lately laid on the table of the House, respecting the property of Dissenters, consisting of chapels and burial-grounds, might be extended to Ireland. The LORD CHANCELLOR had no objection to the ap pointment of a Committee to consider the prayer of the petition. Lord COTTENHAM then moved for the appointment of such a Committee, which was agreed to. MAYNOOTH COLLEGE. Lord MONTEAGLE rose to put a question to the Noble Lord opposite, respecting the College of Maynooth, and in doing so, he did not mean to make the slightest allusion to a State provision for the Roman Catholic clergy. During the existence of the penal laws, Catholic clergymen were compelled to seek in foreign countries for their education, and it was not until subsequent to 1795 that any grant was made to the Catholic College. He knew that many of the men who were educated as Catholic clergymen abroad before the French Revolution, were men of very highly educated and enlightened minds, but at the same time he thought, as a matter of policy, it would be better if the Irish Roman Catholic clergy were not compelled to receive a foreign education. He now came to the condition in which the College of May nooth was at present placed. It was asked why should this college not be enlarged, and why should it be kept exclusively for Catholic ecclesiastics? Why, at the time of the endowment of this college a petition was ipresented to the Irish House of Commons, pr a yi ng that Protestant students might be admitted to the college. This prayer was not granted. On the contrary, a provision was introduced into the Bill which endowed the college, by which no person professing the Protestant religion could be admitted into the college. It was therefore unfair to complain of this prohibition, considering that that prohibition had been created by our own laws. In the year IkoB an application was made to Parliament for an increased grant to the College of Maynooth. In answer to that application the Noble Duke opposite ( Wellington), then Sir Arthur Wellesley, wrote to the authorities of the college to state what ground they had for making their application. Upon the answers which were then furnished to the Noble Duke, he (Lord Monteagle) had founded the motion with which he intended to conclude. Although he knew there was no intention on the part of those in autho rity to withdraw it, yet he feared that from ignorance of tho facts many persons in this country were averse to the only available means by which it could be made useful, namely, by increasing the grant. There were 500 students altogether, 250 of whom were supported out of the funds of the college, yet the amount of the grant was only 9,0001. ; and the cost for each of these persons was only 231. a head. He thought this very wrong in the case of men who were to exercise a vast influence in the country in after life. The labour they were ready to un dergo, and the virtue which they displayed in all cases, was most admirable. As an instance, he would state that, accord ing to the Government returns, in one week no less than ten Catholic clergymen were carried off by typhus fever in the county of Kerry, and he could name many other cases in other counties. At present the College of Maynooth was in a state of great dilapidation from the want of proper funds to repair it. Surely that - was not a fit state of things for such an establishment.—( Hear, hear.) He believed that the Government, by taking,an enlarged and liberal view of this matter, would be doing far more for the benefit and tran quilisation of Ireland than by any other measure. The more sensible people of Ireland were in favour of their clergy receiv ing that liberal education which would place them upon a level with the Protestant clergyman and the country gentleman. By doing so the Government would also show to the people of that country that they were anxious to promote their temporal welfare and spiritual happiness. How could Noble Lords ex pect that children who were reared in happy and comfortable homes would join such an establishment ? There were no fel low ships or scholarships attached at present to this college ; but still he thought that there ought to be some small endowments for the benefit of the more deserving stu dents. The Government, even if they did not take the general support of the establishment upon themselves, yet ought to place the building itself under the superintendence of the Board of Works, and guarantee that it should be kept in proper repair. As a matter of policy they ought to get the hearts and feelings of the Roman Catholic clergy with them, and they would be their best coadjutors in maintaining peace and good order. It was a mistake to apply the term, agitating priests" to the Catholic clergy of Ireland, because the greater number of these priests were against all system of political agitation. The Noble Lord concluded by moving for certain returns with respect to the Roman Catholic College of Maynooth. The Duke of WELLINGTON said he would have no ob jection to lay before the House the returns moved for by the Noble Lord. He was giad that the Noble Lord had brought the matter before • the House. At the present moment, he, (the Duke of Wellington), was not prepared to state that there would be any alteration in the present grant to the College of Maynooth ; but if there were any intention of that kind, a declaration to that effect mould be made in the other House, from whence the grant emanated. He should afford the Noble Lord all the information of which her Majesty's Government were in possession. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE thought it essential that the Catholic clergy should be men of high education, in order that they might properly discharge their religious functions; but how, he would ask, could this be done, when the grant was so paltry ? One of the great benefits which was attributed to the system of the English Universities was that it brought the clergy and upper classes of the laity into more intimate intercourse, and he thought it most desirable that the same should be the case with respect to the Catholic clergy and the upper classes of the Roman Catholic laity in Ireland. The fullest information was already before the House with re spect to this subject, and he called upon her Majesty's Govern ment to act upon it, for upon them lay the whole responsibility of this truly important matter. After a few words from Lord MONTEAGLE in reply, the returns were ordered to be laid on the table. Their Lordships then adjourned at Half-past Seven. h tb 1. 4 ' N.,._..._______ _ t t ll4 ,,N,, t4 Tr eet ,'-'W ROYAL EXCHANGE. b 4 , 441 14 to ~4 10 f the Corporation of London, for improving the tiNte ''' co —"do n-bridge ) held yesterday, the deputation ape othtlfer with the Commissioners of Metropolitan Improve.. Nitet4o:ll°*hoy4(lit_tio.n of obtaining further space at the east.end of NI vPtitati:'enange made their report. 0 4 I t . bat the consisted of Mr. Richard Lambert Jones, the Iti t t Zleha m e jloYal Exchange Committee, Mr. W. Lawrence, 1 11 41 %. 41 . I , ' 4aYlor attended by Mr. Tyrrell, the remembran. • 44'4 rite the ko h . teor'ed th ' architect of the new building . . .2 t cltsi e at the deputation had had several interviews with tli:tee'ehse?._e4. and that they submitted their plans or sugges. i k ) , 14 t4;,!' su g4 ,P,r°vernent s . it t -0 4 ,,-4 th,,—"en Was to make an opening into Finch.lane, I teC t iti 11. Paa s4 ac ler as that which was made in Fleet.street,called „te ll ! Pro p° ge, but wider ; the width of the Finch.latie open- I he 8- 41, ti " at sixty feet from house to house, and thirty ii: ei, i — co lla ' e shop s. .I,l>kteer,,ng estUrtstion proposed the same opening, but included kth q a th i inat eari ' Main street at the east-end of the 'Change to I 6 et N p 14,.. off o rty•six feet six inches as at present. NI Ntt " I th Proposed th taking down of Finch-lane alto. gt end e c ons . e 'll Li on 4 or th truction of a new street, seventy feet wide, at 4% ° the 'C hange •n 't lac All the plans contained a a 't he ij .• to ' -ide N i n P e. e l - ap pr - M ere g T hreadneedle.street from the Royal Ex. t rtk e ko e . t eati o ,., ant Tailors' Hall. lh ''t . 1 41 fr . "on the part of the Corporation was supported by e t ,. it y. or, ~,._ ~10'. This '"e merchants, barkers, brokers, and traders n l l pp e . to e was signed by all the first names i k 1,, % Nor , , 'orqPnt ar a") further inlprovement in this quarter, Magdalen l ip t te t h 'r 4 5 4 3 ' their steward, Mr. Blagrove, and Mr. Sheriff N at t It 'a g e • tt, N I app ear yidence from all these parties, the Commis. tt, t t o f qth e 4 ed, determined that a more extended space at the Ni l i , t kai t , h ,e bili l e Y ° It°Yal Exchange would greatly conduce to the iltitt:41zu::;;41113;tiltollgal alzkitnhge convenience of those who might to the numerous and important Voto ta gr nen ta u ?da which might be provided by the Legislature 'e p ‘ a l or r :hdlo g t''' here metropolis, they could not feel justified IN f , ° tie) , fr,„° Maj or to Parliament, that any ad. Qiilt, 'lit 4 thi a "ro PUblic sources, or from local taxation, should , r ,ttet ev Purp ose. th 'lty ~i n atio n as„:...ni e b appears to have produced but one feeling ''n lost ~.,.Icoat of universal ag Bllregret that an opportunity hi t rt II c annot occur Ntt ..----"-----.........„,,.....____,__ 1 0 1t'' 4(31.(.k1.131 TIILATII.E.—An attraction of the t0141,.t.te4.1)tit4„ Pres_ente(l lase this t venin , inasmuch as M. k o ‘t,Y ~..in Guilluunte T •11 -'-- .1 l '' f !lowed by , , m .„.( , i will be o thet4L. VeZtell...t,,,ip. which 111(.111e. Henry, Mons. Albert, - --g. " lii perform, The house will be crowded THE SUN, LONG,ON, WEDNESDAY EVENING MARCH 13, 1 a similar inquiry to that then carried on before that Committee should be instituted into the condition of the agricultural poor. —( Hear, hear.) An application was made for the purpose to a member of the Cabinet, but he refused to consent to the ap pointment of a Com m itt ee, and would only agree to allow a Commissioner under the poor-law to take evidence on the sub ject. He also refused to allow the Commissioner more than thirty days to carry on t h e i nquiry, notwithstanding the length of time that the Committee to which I have alluded had taken for a similar inquiry.--( Hear, hear.) Having under the law only , thirty days to complete the inquiry, Mr. Austin set forward on his task, and lost two days in his journey. He had thus only twenty-eight days to inquire into the condition of the agricultural labourers in four counties in the south of Eng land.—( Hear.) We h ave , h owever, some facts elicited on thatinquiry, which ought to have drawn forward remarks from Honourable Gentlemen opposite as to the wretched condition of their own constituents.—( Hear.) Before I allude to the condition of the agricultural labourers, I wish to state that whatever may have been the animus which influenced others in invading the manufacturing districts, I have no hostile feel ing whatever towards the agriculturists; for, bear in mind, that my conduct has been throughout marked by consistency towards them.—( Hear.) I brought forward the case of the manufacturers, and I have throughout maintained their interests. We first knocked at the door of this House in 1839. We have since then continued to do so, without intermission. We have knocked at the doors of 'Ministers and Prime Ministers, until they complained of intrusiveness on our part. '%'e stated the entire of the distress to which the manufacturers were exposed. We did more. We prescribed a remedy for that distress.-- (Hear, hear.) And here I may state my solemn belief that one of the principal reasons why the last four years of such fearful suffering and destitution among the man ufac turei s of Lancashire, and Yorkshire, and a part of Scotland, has passed over without any consider able destruction of property, or the loss of a single life, was because they knew that a great body was actively and incessantly at work to make known their suffer ings, and to find a remedy for their distress.—( Hear, hear.) I also state as the result of my conviction, that the labouring poor would not have taken the diabolical and insane course of burning property in order to make known their sufferings, if any party devoted to their interest had come forward in this House and in the country to make suggestions for their relief.—( Hear.) If it were known that the sympathies of the country were aroused in their behalf, the fact would have produced such a humanising effect upon them, that they would never have had the blindness to destroy the very property that ought to give them employment and support. (Hear, hear.) I have looked through this volume, which is the result of Mr. Austin's twenty-eight days' travels through the agricultural districts, and I find that during that period he visited Somersetshire, Devonshire, Wiltshire, and Dorset shire. He has given the testimony of various re spectable gentlemen in these several localities, as to the condition of the agricultural labourers. Some of these ac counts are highly important. The first that I shall refer to is the evidence of the Rev. J. Guthrie, who states that he could never make out how the poor labourers lived and supported their families on the wages which they received. The next is the evidence of Dr. Greenock. (The Honourable Gentleman then read extracts from the evidence alluded to, in which the witness stated that in the union to which he be longed the support of each pauper cost, on an average, Is. 6d. for food alone, though the guardians, by purchas ing provisions wholesale, were able to procurejthem 10 percent. cheaper than the public generally ; and that he could not con ceive how an agricultural labourer, earning 6s. a week, could possibly support his wife and four or five children, and at Use same time pay rent and procure clothing. Another witness, a medical gentleman in the same district, stated that the women and boys who la boured in the fields suffered materially is their health, not from the extent of work which they performed, but from the want of a sufficient' supply of food. He also read a passage from the evidence of Robert Boland, a farmer, stating that in the great majority of cases, a family, consisting of a man and his Wife, with four or five children, were obliged to subsist on eight shillings or nine shillings a week, and passages from the evidence of the wives of two agricultural labourers, describing the inferior uature of the food which they Made use of, and stating that their children were always anxious to get more food when they rose from their:meals.) The Hon. Gentleman then continued. That is a just specimen collected in the south of England, in the purely agricultural districts, by Mr. Austin. I have my self bad the opportunity of making considerable observations in the agricultural districts, and 1 have come to this result, that the further you travel from that much maligned region of tall chimneys and smoke, the less you find the wages of labourers to be ; the more I leave behind me Lancashire and the northern parts of England, the worse is the condition of the labourers, aed the less is the quantity of food they have. Does not this, I will ask, answer the argu ment that the agricultural labourer derives no protection ? (Hear, hear.) Now what I wish to bring out before the Com mittee is this—that even during your casual high prices, caused by scarcity, the agricultural labourers always suffer.—( Hear.) Pauperism increases as the price of food rises—( Hear)—and in short, the price of the loaf is in a direct ratio proof of the increase of pauperism.—(Cries of " No, no.") An Honourable Gentleman says, " No, no." I hope I shall have him on the Committee, and if he will only hear me out, I am sure I shall persuade him to vote for the Com mittee. With regard to the condition of the agricultu ral labourer, I have taken some pains to ascertain what has been the progress of wages in agricultural districts. I know that it is a very sore point indeed for Hon. Members opposite, but I must tell them that in those very districts of Wilts and Dorset the wages of labour now are about on a par with wages 60 years ago, while the rent on land has increased from two-and-a-half to threefold.—( Hear, hear.) Now, I consider that to be a very sufficient answer to the statements that have been made of the increase of rages. When you have a law that produces scarcity, while it increases rents, you must not be surprised if yon are called upon to look at how the system works upo n th ose you pro f ess to say it was made to improve the condition of.—( Hear.) Now, the following is, 1 believe, a correct statement of the price of wages. In Devon they are from 6s. to 75. 6d. a week. In Wiltshire from 6s. to 7s. In Somersetshire from 7s. to 9s. In Dorset from 6s. to 75., wheat being at the time ss. a bushel, and in Gloucestershire from 6s. to 75., while the rents have in creased three-fold. Now, you have chosen to take this course in an illegltimate way.—( Hear, hear. ) You cannot therefore wonder when I call upon this House to consider how these laws have acted upon you, and upon those whom you profess to serv e . I was d own i n Gl oucester a little while ago, and had a good deal of conversation with a Mr. Hand lord, an experienced land agent, who stated that he had lately sold property which had belonged to his great grandfather, and which brought him ten times the price his ancestor had given for it. I have lately been reading a work published by Judge Hale, somewhere about the time 1 am referring to—somewhere about 161;3—and in it he states that the then wages of the labourers averaged 10s. per week ; and he remarks, unless a fa ther, mother, and four children, have this amount per week, how arc they to get on but by stealing. Now, in the pre sent day, wheat is forty per cent. higher, and wages have dropped pretty generally to only seven shillings per week. It is an actual fact that l found, on the journey that I am referring to, that the labouring poor out of doors are actually compelled to live on less than what is allowed in the workhouse. ( Hear, hear. ) A gentleman of the name of Hunt, a guardian of the poor in that district, told me, that on consult ing with the medical officer as to the diet, he found it on a scale much higher than those who were working hard out of doors were enabled to get.—(H car, hear.) Now I have spoken of the food o f th ese people, and when 1 do that I imply also lodging, clothing, morality. education—aye, anti religion also.—(Cheers.) There is a point in the volume of evidence which I have already referred to, which mere especially cabs for the attention of this House. I mean the subject of lodgings for the agricultural poor.—( Hear, hear. ) In this quetion, more almost than in any other, is the character of the landlords concerned. Mr. Austin states an instance of a fa mily at Stourbridge of eleven persons in one room and three beds. In the first bed vs as the father and mother, a little boy, and a little girl; in the second bed were three daughters, two of them twins, twenty years old; and in the third four sons, fifteen years old, seventeen years old, and the like.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") There were no cur tains to the beds, nor anything else to assist in observing the decencies of life.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. Phelps, agent for the Marquis of Lansdowne, has given an instance which occurred at Studeley, where twenty-nine persons were living under one roof—the married people and the young persons being all huddled together in one small tenement.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. Austin further says, that a married woman told him the room in which she was being confined was shared with thirteen other persons, in three beds; and that it was neces sary to lay her on the middle of the floor, in order that proper attention should he given to her, and she declared this to be the roost painful part of her illness.—(Hear, hear.) Another clergyman of Dorsetshire stated that he resided in the neighbourhood of a Noble Duke—whose name he (Mr. Cobden) would not mention, although the Noble Duke was not himself very fastidious as to the terms in which he spoke of the members of the League—the labourers were as badly off as they could be. Nothing could exceed their immorality, even between brother and sister.— ( Groat sensation.) In some cases, in order to prevent this, the males of two families were taken to sleep in the one house, and the females in the other.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") Mr. Austin declares that he could see no regard to chastity in the females, and no respect to that sex in the men.—( hear.) Sir, I should not do justice to my feelings if I did not express my indignation at the conduct of the owners of land, however they may be described.--(" Hear," from Lord Ashley.) lam glad to hear that cheer from the Noble Lord. However you may remark upon the owners? of mills and factories, and upon the evils of town populations, I think you must acknowledge that these cannot come under the cog nisance of particular individuals, and certainly not of any particular proprietor ; but if you go into the villages under the control of the landlord, you will find them living in a state worse than in" the wigwams of the Indians. It was well said by the late lamented Mr. Drummond, that " property had its duties as well as its rights," and I say that the landlords neglect their duty when they allow their tenants to live in pig sties, and /worse than pigsties. I never saw the Rev. Adol phus Osborne ; I think if we met, we should differ upon many points ; but I cannot but admire the moral courage with which he exposed the state of the population in Dorsetshire.— ( Cheers.) He says that "in the neighbourhood of Bradford, from one year's end to the other, the people live in the greatest destitution. They bast nothing but- bread and pota toes, with sometimes a little bacon of an inferior kind, and, from what :he knew of the quality of the bread, he was not sur prised at the diseases with which the children are afflicted." Another clergyman gave evidence to the same effect, from which I shall trouble the House with an extract. ( The Honourable Gentleman then read a passage from Mr. Austin's Report, in which the witness alluded to states that he had on one occasion four blankets given to him for the most destitute persons of his parish. Endeavouring to discover the fittest objects of the bounty, he found that amongst eighty-four individuals there were but thirty-five blankets—of these ten were tolerably good, as they had been in use only four years, but twenty-five were completely warn out.) Thus you see that this is not a sudden case of distress, but the constant and permanent condition of the agricultural labourer. ( Hear, hear. ) The periods of manufacturing distress are, after all, remote—certainly not permanent—and we charge them upon your bad legislation.--( Hear, hear) ( The Hon. Gen tleman then read further extracts to show the crowded im morality of of the cabins in Dorsetshire, and the frightful of their inmates.) You talk of the immorality of our manu facturiog towns—what can you show us to equal this ? Your villages are normal schools for vice anti prostitution.—( He ar . ) You cannot blame us for the vices of our tow ns , if you rear the people thus and send them into our towns.—( H ear , h ear.) I say emphatically 1 do not attack individuals, but a system. Although I hold the proprietor to be resposible for the state of lod g i n g on his own land, I do not hold him responsible fur the price of w ages. I never held the farmers responsible for the price of me that I did so. I challenge the Argus-eyed opponent I have to deal with, to show that I have ever done so.—( Great cheering.) What does Mr. Austin say of clothing —you have heard what he said of food and lodging ? He says, that to have a change of clothing was all nonsense. If a woman came home with wet clothes from her work, she must put them on in the moroing as wet as when she came home.—( Hear.) And yet you tell us t hat these are our g reat home customers. —( Cheers and laughter. ) Lincolnshire is an exception.—(Hear, hear, from Col. Sib thorp. ) It is an ex ce pti on b o th w i t h regar d to t h e condition of the farmer and the labourer. —( The Hon. Gentleman then adverted to the wretched condition of the farmers and farm labourers in Scotland and Wales, an d qu oted the description of the protection we give to the farmers of this country.—( Hear. ) But I may be answered, that the farmers of this country have the cost of carriage to pay also, as, for instance, from Norfolk to Liverpool or London. But I beg to remind Hon. Gentlemen of one thing which they overlook, namely, that a very small portion of corn is carried coastwise at all.—( Hear.) Accurate information upon this point might be got before a Select Committee of this House. Only 1,000,000 of quarters were carried coastwise at all, or 5 per cent. of the whole growth of the country ; the rest was carried from the barn-door to the mill. This is an important consideration for those who say that there is no natural protection to the farmer, inasmuch as it gave the farmer here a constant protection of half-a-guinea. But Honourable Gentlemen ought to tDhaanntzitiewwasasgnroowt n gr o o n wn th o o n rin th ay e o q f ua L y t s v — er ( p bear this in mi n d, t h at the corn which was brought from Ho Liverpool. r , h o e n a r t ) n — e contrar ya. n y r e , it is brought from a very long distance. I have seen a state ment made by an Hon. Member from Scotland, who said that the rafts on which the corn was brought into Dantzic paid the cost of transit.—(Laughter.) I have not been able to verify that.etatement in the course of my inquiries. —(Laughter.) Now I s'oeuld like to have farmers themselves examined before a Com - neittee of the House as to their ability to compete with foreigners %don. Gentlemen would do well to consider what happened in the case of wool.—(hear, hear.) Every prediction that is now uttered with regard to corn, was uttered by Gentlemen opposite with regard to wool.—( Ifear, hear.) If Hon. Gen tlemen ransacked the British Museum, and hunted in that Herculaneum for all the pamphlets which were written on the subject of wool, what arguments would they net find in the future tense, and what predictions of may, might, could, would, should, ought, and shall ! — (Laughter.) But what was the result 2—( Hear, hear. ) Did they lose all their sheep walks ?—(llear, hear.) Had they no more mutton ? (Laughter.) Were there no more sheep cots ? 1 have an account of the importation of wool and the price of wool, and what I wish to impress on Gentlemen opposite is this, that the price of commodities springs from two causes—a temporary, fleeting, and retributive high price, produced by scarcity—the other, a high price produced by prosperity. With regard to wool, you had a high price springing from the ability of the consumers; The statement he had made showed that the higher the price of wool the greater was the importation ; and the lower the price, the smaller the im portation. In 1827, the price of South Down wool was 10d. and the importation was 29,000,000 lbs. In 1829, it fell to 7d., and the importation was only 21,000,000 lbs. In 1836, the price rose to IBd. et lb., and the importation had risen to 64,000,000 lbs.—that is three times more than when the price was less by half. In 1841 the price of wool was I Id., and the importation 56,000,000 lbs. ; in 11842, the price was 10d., and the im portation had dropped to 145,000,000 lbs. ; so that when yeu have had the highest price of wool you have had the largest competition from foreign countries; and when you have had the lowest price you have had the least competition. —( Hear, hear.) Well, now, that is the principle which I wish to see applied in viewing this much-dreaded question of corn. You may have a high price of corn, through a prosperous community, and it may continue a high price : you may have a high price through a scarcity, and it is impossible in the very nature of things that trade can prosper.—( Hear.) Now put thi s l es t o f woo l i n t h e case of cattle and other things that have been imported since the passing of the tariff. I w ant this matter to be cleared up.—( Hear, hear, and cheers. ) I do not want Gentlemen to find fault with the Right Hon. Baronet for doing what he did not do. Ido not believe that he caused a reduction of one farthing in the price of articles of consumption. And I must say, with all deference to him, that I think ho himself is to blame for having incurred that charge by the arguments which he brought forwaid in support of the tariff. It is said that the tariff has caused a panic and distress among the farmers. Why I don't believe there has been as much increase in the imports as would make one good breakfast for all the people.—( Laughter.) Did it never enter into the minds of Hon. Gentlemen who are interested in the sale of cattle, that their custom ers i n large towns cannot be sinking into abject poverty and distress without the evil alternately reaching themselves in the price of their produce. Why, I had occasion a little time ago to look at the falling off in the town of Stockport. I cal culated the falling off in Stockport alone for three or four years at more than all the increase in the importation of foreign cattle. It appears, therefore, that the distress of that town alone has done as much to reduce prices as all the importation under the tariff. It has been estimated that in Manchester forty per cent. less of wages was paid in 1842 than had been paid formerly; and it has also been estimated that the country was paying 7,000,0001. less in wages per annum in 1842 than in 1836. How could you then expect the same consumption ?—(Hear, hear.) If you would but look to your own interests as keenly and as wisely as manufacturers look to theirs, you would never fall into the error supposing of that you can ruin your customers, and yet, at the same time, prosperity your pursuits.--( Cheers.) I re member hearing Lord Kinnaird, whose property is near Dundee, state that, in 1835 and 1836, the dealers used to come and bespeak his cattle three months in advance, but in 1842, when the linen trade shared the fate of all the manufactures he had to engage steam-boats three months in advance to bring his cattle to the London markets. Hon. Members, who lived in Sussex, and the southern counti es , an d w h o were i n t h e habit of joking about Cheadle Mill, should recollect that they are as much de pendent upon the prosperity of Cheadle and other mills, as those who live in their immediate neighbourhood.—(Hear, hear.) If graziers, on looking at the " Price Current," find they can get a better price for their cattle in London than in Manchester and Stockport will they not send their cattle up to London, to compete with the southern graziers. The point, therefore, which I wish to make out is, that the tariff has not caused the reduction in price. There is nothing which I re gret more, than that the corn-law or the tariff should ever have been touched. Without this, we should have had prices lower than they are ; our lesson would then have been complete, and the landlords and tenants would have been taught how dependent they are on their customers. Hon. Gentlemen must not content themselves with learning this lesson ; but they must reduce their rents—they must go down in sackcloth and ashes—( Great laughter)—instead of hallooing on the farmers against the Anti-Corn-law League as the cause of all their suf ferings.—( Hear, hear.) Now, with regard ,to the low prices consequent on the change in the tariff, I do not know whether a Noble Lord happens to be present, who illustrated this very aptly, by stating that the farmers in the west of Scotland had been ruined by the reduction in the price of cheese. —( Laughter. ) There could be nothing more untortunate than that statement, as there happens in that respect to have been no alteration, and yet I believe cheese fell in price as much as any other article. The mistake of the Noble Lord who made that statement was quite natural ; for if he believed that the change in the tariff caused the reduction in the:price of cattle, he was bound to believe that nothing else caused the reduction in the price of cheese. It is well known that whilst the price of cheese has fallen in the home market, the importation has been also considerably diminished.—(Bear, hear.) Now there is another point upon which 1 must entreat Hon. Members' forbearance, for it is an exceedingly tender point, and one which is always heard with great sensitiveness in the House. I refer to the subject of rent.—( Hear.) Now we have no tenant-farmers in this House.—( Hear, hear.) I wish we had, and I venture here to express a hope that the next dissolution will send up a bona fide tenant-farmer. I knovv:nothing more likely than that to unravel the perplexity of our termonology— nothing more likely to put things on a right footing, and to make us steak plainly on this subject. The landowners, I mean the political landowners —those who dress their servants and their cattle in blue ribbons, and who treat this question entirely as a political one they go 3 to the tenant-farmers, and they; tell them:that it would be quite impossible for them to compete with foreigners, for, if they had their land rent-free, they could not sell their produce at the same price as they did. To bear out their statement they give a calculation of the cost per acre of growing wheat, which they put down at 61. Now the fallacy of that has been ex plained to me by an agriculturist in the Midland Counties, whom I should exceedingly like to see giving his evidence before the Committee for which I am moving. He writes me in a letter-which I have received to-day, " You will be met by an assertion that no alteration in rent can make up the difference to the tenant and the labourer of diminished prices. They will quote the expenses of a single crop of wheat, and say how small a proportion the rent bears to the: whole: expense • but that is sot the true way of putting it. Wheat is the farmer's remunerating crop, but the farmer cannot grow wheat more than one year in three." The writer stated that they should compare the ex penses of the whole farm with the price received of the land lord. " I have," said he, " for this purpose, analysed the ex penses of a farm of 400 acres-230 arable, 170 pasture;; parish and county-rates, 90/. ; interest of capital, 150/. ; labour, 380/. • tradesmen' s bil ls, 80/. ; manure an d li me, 701.; wear and tear of horses, 20/. ; making altogether for expenses, 790/. the rent being 800/. ! So that in this farm, which is very fairly cultivated, the rent is 8001., and the other expenses 790/. Now if it require 553. per quarter, on as average year, to enable the tenant-farmer to pay the rent and make 1501. profit, it is obvious that without any rent he would be able' to pay labourers and tradesmen the same amount out of a price of 30s. per quarter. But Ido not anticipate that wheat will ever fall below 455. per quarter. by means of free trade." Now that is a very important state ment of a very competent judge.—( Cries of " Name.") It is Mr. Lagett, of Ruginton Grange, near Worthing. Allow me now to state to the House what is the best way to calculate what proportion rent bears to the expense of cultivating farms —what amount of produce the farmer sells in the market— what amount of money he brings home from the mar ket, and what proportion of that money goes to the landlord for rent. That is: the way to consider the sub ject. You have not to count the money laid out in seed, corn, and manure, because taxes were never paid out of these. I am prepared to prove before the Committee, by a witness who shall be deputed by the Lothian farmers, that one half of their produce goo ;to the landlord—out of every 525. per quarter of wheat 265. ; also that if they had but twenty-six shillings per quarter for their wheat, and the land rent free, they would do as well, pay as much wages, and everybody about their establishment would be as well off as they can be now when paying rent and receiving 525. per quarter. I believe many Hon. Gentlemen opposite and on this side of the House have never entered into calculations of what proportion of rent goes to the quarter of corn. The way to calculate is this—what quantity of corn do you sell every year of the whole of your farms if all their produce was turned into wheat? I will make that calculation. I have often told you my own opinions, and I have taken the opinions of men who have taken great pains in i nves ti gat i ng the subject for months past, in their respective circles, and I have arrived at the conclusion that farmers, upon the average, do not have a sale per annum more than equivalent to 10 bushels of wheat for every acre they rent, so that in 500 acres there would not be more than 5,000 bushels, and yet half of the produce of the price of wheat goes in the shape of rent to the landlord. As regards cheese, lam likewise prepared to prove that more than one-half of that which goes to market, goes to the landlord in the shape of rent. For every sd. paid for cheese, 2d. goes to the landlord; and in the same way in the grazing districts, such as those of Northampton, for every sd. worth of beef that is sold, '2d. goes to the landlord. This is a point the public need not be concerned about for the farmer. Ido not put it forward on that ground. I never told you that you raised the rent of your land by the corn-laws. I never believed it. But it you come to this House and enact apparently for the benefit of the farmer, and say that free trade ruins ' the agricultur.st, then I mutt put forward the real state of the case. I shall now touch upon another and more important branch of this question, I mean the interests of the farm labourer. We are told that he is be nefited by a system of restriction which makes the first ele ment of existence scarce. Do you think posterity will believe it? They will look back upon this doctrine, in less than twenty years, with as much amazement as we do now when upon the conduct of our forefathers they burnt old women for witchcraft. Yet in the face of the plainest evidence you go on maintaining a law which makes food scarce, in order to benefit the agriculturist. We have had a volume presented to us on the condition of the agricultural population, which ought to be before the House long before this time. A Commission was appointed last year to inquire into the em ployment of women and children in husbandry, and I wish to state the manner in which that Commission had been appointed. I was a party to having that Commission named; as a motion was made by an Honourable Friend near me for the purpose of having a Committee then sitting on the employment of women and children in manufactures extended to the agricultural labourers. The Committee had been sitting for two years in a particular form, and was afterwards engaged, I believe, for four years in inquiring into the condition of labourers in other trades and manufactures. What my Hon. Friend and myself wished was, that HOUSE OF COMMONS, March 12. The SPEAKER, took the Chair at the usual hour. Mr. H. HINDE brought up the Pontop and South Shields Railway Bill, which was read a first time. The Epsom and South Western Railway Bill, and the Croydon and Epsom Railway Bill, were read a second time, and ordered to be committed. Mr. WALLACE presented a petition from the inhabitants of Lambeth, complaining that the Lambeth Water-Works Company had violated the terms of their Act of Parliament, and praying the House to inquire into the subject. Mr. STUART WORTLEY presented a petition from Yorkshire against any alteration in the corn.laws. Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition against the poor laws ; also a petition against the employment of young persons in factories. Mr. DRUMMOND presented a . petition praying for the establishment of local courts in certain parts of the country. Mr. BECKETT presented a petition against the short-time clause in the Factories Bill. NOTICES OF MOTION. Colonel WOOD postponed till Tuesday, 26th inst., the mo tion which he had upon the paper relative to the exemption of the carriage of lime from toll in Wales. Mr. CURTEIS wished to give notice that, in the Committee on the Poor-law Amendment Bill, he should move a resolu tion to the effect that boards of guardians be empowered to permit paupers in workhouses to go outduring the day for air and exercise ; and, in case of that resolution not being agreed to, he should move another, to the effect that beards of guardians be permitted to allow paupers in workhouses who were above 60 years of age, to go out during the day for the enjoyment of air and exercise, subject to such regulations as the guardians might think fit to impose. Sir WALTER JAMES gave notice that, in Committee on the Factories Bill, be should move that the word " child" in the Bill mean a person under 15 years of age, and that the words " young person" mean a person under years of age. Dr. BOWRING gave notice that to-morrow he would ask for a statement of the changes which had taken place in the book-keeping department of the public offices since the Report that was made on the subject in the year 1822. Mr. GILL wished, pursuant to the notice which he had given yesterday, to put the following question to the Right lion. Gentleman opposite—namely, whether the Right lion. Gentleman was aware of the fact that there were two officers of the 76th Regiment now in lievonport under arrest since the 24th of July last, now nearly eight months, and that they were put ander arrest in consequence of a dispute in the mess-room to present further consequences, also whether or not applications were made in December and January last by letter to the Horse-Guards on behalf of one of the officers, and if so what notice had been taken ? He wished also to know whether the Right Hon. Gentleman had any objec tion to state to the House the grounds of the continued de tention of those officers, and why they were not released or their conduct submitted to a proper tribunal. Lastly, he wished to know whether /Sr not that arrest was not contrary to the articles of war, which stated that no officer should be detained longer in arrest than eight days, or until a court-martial could be as sembled ? Sir H. HA RDINGE said, in reply to the first question, that it was correct that two officers were so detained in arrest, and secondly, they were put under arrest in consequence of a dis pute which occurred in the mess-room, to prevent further consequences. With regard to applications made on behalf o f one of the officers to the Horse-Guards, he believed it was correct that some letters were written to the authorities there. In reply, to the fourth question, as to whether he had any objection to state the grounds of the continued arrest, and whether the said officers should net either be released or tried, as the Articles of War quoted by the Hon. Member directed, he (Sir H. Hardinge) had stated to the Honourable Gentleman and to the House, that those officers were placed under arrest, because one of them, a junior offi cer, was the bearer of a challenge to a senior officer, which the latter accepted, both having thus violated their duty, and therefore rendered themselves liable to arrest. After he had been arrested the junior officer made the most ample apolo gies in his power, which were accepted by the other officer, and the aggressor, who was very m uc h i n th e wrong, was about to be tried by Court Martial in conse quence of his • conduct. The other, who was not so 144. the state of the population of the latter country given by the reporter of the Times.) I need hardly refer to the condition of the population of the sister country across the Channel. It is acknow ledged that there are 2,500,000 destitute persons in that country. They are frequently on the point of famine ; and yet, at this moment there is a duty of 18s. 3d. a quar ter on the corn imported into that country.—( Hear, hear.) (The Hon. Gentleman then quoted from the Report of Dr. Southwood Smith, respecting the state of the fever hospitals, in which there were 1,462 patients, being 418 more than in preceding years, and consisting chiefly of persons coming from the agricultural clistricts3seeking for labour.--( Hear, hear. ) I have now given a description of the state of the agricultural population ; and I ask of the Members of Counties, whether they are not put out of court ? There is no class of the country benefited by these laws, and all I ask is, that we should have a Select Committee to inquire into the facts.—(Hear, hear.) Yon don't want an Act of Parliament to protect the farmer; you want a fresh bargain with him. You want leases upon fresh terms. The men f should bring to be examined before the Committee would tell you how they could employ more labourers. They would tell you that they could do so by breaking up some of that old land which is lying not under grass, but under moss, and has been l)ing in that way for, perhaps, a hundred years, in order to please some landlord aho prefsrs seeing in that state to seeing corn groping there or the plough passing over it. All such coxeombry as that would disappear before such a practical farmer as my Lord Ducie, who would he ready to come and tell you what to do. You would derive immense advantage from the examination that would be gone into in such a Committee as that which I propose. Alen would be examined who look upon land as we look on our raw material in our manufactures, as that which is to give employment to the people. We have now advantages presented to us for holding this Com mittee that we have never had before. Recollect that hitherto you have not heard two sides of the question be fore your Agricultural Committees. Now I wish to impress this upon the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite ( Sir R. Peel) —I strongly appeal to him to allow me to have this Committee. There have never yet been two sides of the question stated in Committees of this House. The witnesses that have been examined were all in favour of protection. You have never had any enlightened agriculturist brought forward to state both sides of the question. In the evidence taken in 1836, great doubt was expressed as to the value of an intervention by Act of Parliament. No direct evidence, however, was brought forward as to whether it would not be better to get rid of the old system altogether, and adopt a system of perfect free trade. Now it is on that ground that I especially appeal to Hon. Gentlemen opposite. Ido not want men examined who are farmers only. Let them be landowners if you choose. I would respectfully ask Lord Ducie and Earl Spencer first. I presume that the Duke of Buckingham and the Duke of Richmond would be chosen by gentlemen opposite.—(Laughter.) There is nothing that I should more wish to see than four noblemen brought before the Committee, and subjected to a cross-examination. We would take your Noblemen and you should take ours.—(Laughter. ) This is what I should wish to see. But, however, you have Hon. Gentlemen on your own side of the House who make out my case altogether. There is the Hon. Member for Berk shire who well knows what the land is capable of, who knows what is wanting, and who knows that those districts where there is the most pauperism and distress are the very places in which farming is most neglected. He says, " I wish to see more drains cut, and more lime used, and more manure procured ; and 1 should like to see their cattle fat tened up, which have hitherto been starved." Here is testi mony, you see, from your own side, that nothing is right. Now suppose you could read a book upon manufactures, in which you could show that every thing was wrong that we manufac turers were doing. Suppose a theorist could come to me in my business, which is the manufacture of garments—things almost as necessary in a civilised land and cold climate as corn—(Laughter) —now, suppose this theorist were to come to me in my manufactory anti say, " You must bring your indigo from India, your madder from France, your gum from Africa, your cotton from Ame rica, and compound all these together, and you can then make a peasant's gown for two shillings." Why, this is all done. They are doing this daily in my manufactory. It does not require a theorist to tell us to do it. If we did not do it we could not carry on our competition with each other and with other countries. This, however, can be said to you.—" You have materials moul dering at your own door. You have only to get over a hedge —to dig under the surface—to improve the condition of your people." We should make great advances in agriculture if this Committee were to be appointed. I know that you would have a majority of protectionists on that Committee. I am perfectly willing that you should have it. I know that—l understand at least that there is a sort of etiquette in tl:is House by which the mover of a Committee is appointed Chairman of that Committee. Now I waive all pretension to that office. I will sit as a humble individual in the minority ; all I ask is to be there. What possible objection can you raise to it? I cannot understand what objection there can be. Are you afraid that it will increase the agitation ? I ask the Hon. Ba ronet, the Member for Essex, whether he thinks the agitation is going down in his part of the country ? I understand they have lately raised a large sum of money in Essex. Now do you think that the appointment of a dozen gentlemen, to act in a room for the purpose of taking evidence, would add anything to the excitement out of doors on this subject ? Why, by the ap pointment of this Committee you would draw me away.— (Laughter.) I tell you what will cause excitement. Excite ment will be caused if you refuse this Committee, and allow me to go down to the counties with your votes in my hand, and say, " I only asked for inquiry. I offered them a majority of their own party, and offeredio go into the Committee merely as a member of the Committee, and not as the Chairman. I offered them every possible advantage in the Committee, and they would not, or they dare not, grant me that Committee of Inquiry." Now, I desire to have no advantage of that sort. If you let us have the Committee, let us set to work with a desire, if possible, to elicit a fund of information which shall be beneficial to the country. (Hear, hear.) I feel that much good would be done by this Committee. Ido believe that the system at present pursued, instead of being a protection to agriculture is the destruc tion of agriculture. Let us see if our Committee cannot counteract some of the effects of the foolishness—l will not use a harder name—which, under the pretence of protecting native industry, has been allowed to go forth, by which the farmers have been induced to depend upon an Act of Parliament for prosperity, rather than upon their own energies. Let us conduct the Committee as though we wished to elicit facts —as though we wished to counteract the mischiefs of that system, than which I cannot imagine any thing more demoralising—for such a system deserves no better tide than a system of demoralisation. What is it that you tell the farmers? You get them to feel that they cannot compete with other men. You bring long lists of figures arid delusive accounts, showing that the eultis vation of an acre must cost 61. or 51., and then you tell them to compare that with the cost in Russia. You put every impediment in the way of their doing that which they ought to do. Do you think that is the way to make men succeed in anything? flow should we do? We who are ma nufacturers. If we get a pattern of some rival manufacture abroad, should we call our men together, anti say, tt It is quite clear we cannot compete with the foreigner; it is quite useless to compete with Germany or America ?" We don't do that, but what do wo do? Why, we call our men together, and we say " Such and such a thing is being done else where ; now we arc Englishmen, and whether these things arc done by Russians or Germans, we will do it. "—(Cheers. ) 1 believe that the present system is demoralizing the people. The Nolle Lord, the Member for North Lancashire, had no right to go down to the agricultural meeting at Liverpool anti tell the farmers that they ought not to do as their grandfathers had done before them, merely content themselves by putting one foot before the other. lie had no right to talk to them in that way. What is it makes them do so? Why, every man who conies here or who goes to Lancashire and talks abaut. our " invasion of corn" from a place in Russia which shall be nameless—(Cheers and laughter)—the men who come here and tell us to look to protection instead of looking to our own energies —these are the men who cause the farmers to put their hands behind their backs, and it is that which prevents them from being equal, if not superior, farmers to any on the face of the earth. I be lieve that much good will result from such a Com mittee as that which 1 proposed, because I believe that the present system is as injurious to agriculture as it is to manufactures. It is because I believe that it robs the earth of its fertility—robs the labourer of his hire—cheats the people of their subsistence, and robs the farmer of his independence,—it is because I believe all this that I hope you will accede to the motion which I nosy make—" That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the effects of protective duties on imports upon the in terests of the tenant-farmers and farm-labourers of this country."—( Loud cheers. ) Air. GLADSTONE could not but acknowledge the general moderation and tone of the language of the speech which the Hon. Gentleman had just addressed to the House. He hoped the Hon. Gentleman would allow him to congratulate him upon the manner in which that speech had been delivered. The Hon. Gentleman had commenced his speech by ad verting to a certain case which had occurred in Dorsetshire, the particulars of which he (Mr. Gladstone) was not ac quainted with. The Hon. Gentleman said that it appeared from inquiries which had been made by the public authorities that a number of human beings were living together in a wretched hovel, under circumstances the most degrading to them, and most disgraceful to those who were placed over them. Ile (Mr. Gladstone) felt sure that the sorrow which had been expressed by the Honour able Gentleman with respect to this case, was shared by both sides of the House. But although this case had been referred to by the Hon. Gentleman, it could not be supposed that that was a specimen of the state of the:rural districts throughout the country. If the Hon. Gentleman could show to the House that such was the statelof the rural districts,. hen he (Mr. G) would acknowledge that he had removed one of the most powerful impediments which stood in the way of the proposal which the Hon. Gentleman had recommended. Now with regard to the motion which had been made by the Hon. Gentleman. He (Mr. Gladstone) confessed that he did not think that the speech of the Hon. Gentleman corresponded much with the terms of his motion. The motion of the Hon. Gentleman was for a Select Committee to inquire into the operation of pro tective duties on imports upon the interests of the tenant farmers and farm labourers of this country. He (Mr. Gladstone) confessed, in following the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that it was difficult to discover what really was the object which was sought to be obtained by this Committee. Many por tions of the speech of the Hon. Gentleman had applied to sub jects which the Select Committee, for which the Hon. Gen tlemen had moved, could certainly not entertain. The Gentleman had bestowed a considerable portion of his speech on describing the rural population in particular districts. He had alluded to the population of certain districts in four coun ties. Now he (Mr. Gladstone) would not agree to the pro• position that this was a true specimen of the state of thosesfour counties, but he thought it would be particularly unreasonable to suppose that those counties represented the whole of the rural districts of England. A large part of the speech of the Hon. Gentleman appeared to him (Mr. Gladstone) to point to some proposition for a Committee to inquire into the state of the agricultural labouring population. If such was the Hon. Gentleman's object, he (Mr. Gladstone) ap prehended that the proposition now before the House would not meet it. If such a subject as the condition of the agri cultural population of this country were to be considered in such a Committee as that which had been moved for by the lion. Gentleman, it would materially be mixed up with such a number of different questions of political economy, that no beneficial results would ensue. He believed if the Committee were to be appointed under such circumstances that the Hon. Gentleman must sacrifice all hope of conferring any advantage upon agriculture. T he Hon. Gentleman said that it was ne cessary to have a Committee in order to establish the fact, that the House had not the power of fixing the p r i ce of aericultural commodities. Now before he (Mr. Glad static) assented to the appointment of such a Com mittee, he would like to know whether it had been proved that any Hon. Gentleman in that House had maintained that it was in their power to fix that price.—( Hear, hear.) Now this Committee, if it were intended for anything, was for the purpose of converting the majority of that House to the opinions entertained by the Hon. Gentleman. The Hon. Gentleman had said that the depreciation in the price of cattle was not attributable to the operation of the tariff, but was to be ascribed to the impoverishment of the consumer. In ibis opinion he (Mr. Gladstone) coincided, but he doubted whether the Committee for which the Hon. Gentleman had moved could legitimately investigate that subject. The lion. Gen tlemen had addressed himself t• the subject of the proportion of rent to the expenses of a farm. He had read a statement, from which the expenses of • 11 - -...., some farms had rea c h e d 7901., w hil e t h e rent was 80f2. .. -------, ,Neese;' he (Mr. Gladstone) had no means of denying the ecclttel4 'of ': s Lre..--ter. ' e that statement, but even supposing it to be correct, pas that a 7 e t criterion to go by with respect to the whole countiyi The --?.tae. ',last.* '... - 4 . ... Hon. Gentleman had argued the question of protectipze inekhe '"j - '2.-', 7 : 1 1-' , G .p f . ' abstract —the question assumed a very different asP4 \ fsheri it .' e. . e -.. - -8 ' was considered with reference to a new comn.ercialear - erct, to / ---.- _F', that which it did when considered in connection wit - tt-'7---: r---r -mass of the population whose labour had been influen system of protecti on . The lion. Gentleman said h e did hatitiV. asAski much complain of the corn-law on account of its enhancing the price of wheat, as he did on account of the fluctuations which it cawed. Now he (Mr. Gladstone) very much doubted whe ther a Select Committee could inquire whether the fluctuations in the price of corn were to be ascribed to the present corn law. That was a subject for debate by the whole House. The Hon. Gentleman contended that protection was injurious to the tenant farmer and to the farmer's labourer, but there were gentlemen in that House ready to argue in favour of the other side of the question. The Hon. Member for Wiltshire had argued with much ingenuity and truth, that the removal of protection would be injurious to both these classes. If the landlord was pressed upon by the Legislature, he might himself become a farmer, and take the cultivation of these lands into his own hands, or he might throw his lands into the hands of a class, ylio would farm un a much more extensive and econo mical scale of management, and who would be possessed of far greater igh t then b capital eobtained,than butpr esentheit did occupiers.otfollow i t it w Cheaper oud b produce i m wise in the House to adopt a course which would lead to such a violent disruption—(Hear, hear)—and which would be so manifestly injurious to a considerable bulk of the population. Many were seriously of opinion that the danger of causing the displacement of so much rural labour was in itself a good and valid argument against a repeal of the corn-laws. W as it not perfectly possible that in the change contemplated by the lion. Gentleman, the landlord might, of the three classes (landlords, tenants, and labourers) suffer least ?—(Hear, hear.) The land of Northamptonshire, it was said, was best adapted to grazing —the manufacturers declared there would be an in creased demand for meat if the corn-laws were repealed, so that here, at least, the landlord would not be the loser. That might be a good argument for the landlord, but how did it apply to the labourer ? Grazing farms occupied comparatively few la bourers; what then would become of these poor people if grazing became prevalent—those men who had been bred to agricultural pursuits, nod knew nothing else ? Why they would be brought to ruin and destruction.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman argued that machinery was not the cause of dis tress. Other Hen. Gentlemen were prepared to argue that distress did not result from the corn-laws. He did not think it would be vise or prudent in Hon. Members to discuss at large the question of the corn-laws.--(lronical cries of " Hear, hear" from the Oppositien. ) There were those who believed the corn-laws were not the cause of the distress in the manu facturing districts, but the means of alleviating it; and he thought those who built their theory of free trade on such pre mises, could not long support it. He could not think that the Hon. Gentleman really contemplated a Select Committee as the fittest tribune' for such complicated, abstract, and grave questions to be dealt with; he was rather of opinion that the Hun. Member had other views in the motion. First, it afforded him an opportunity of making a speech upon the corn-laws ; secondly, it gave him the power of refusing the Chairmanship of tho pro posed Committee ; and lastly it would enable him to collect the different opinions of the Hon. Members of that House. He (Mr. Gladstone) could not suppose how the question of rent, for instance, which must necessarily enter into the projected investigation, could be dealt with by such a tribunal. It was a most abstract and difficult question of po litical economy that had engaged the undivided attention of such men as Smith, Malthus, and Ricardo, and could not be properly considered when mixed up with such heterogenous and conflicting subjects. Now, what was a Select C ommittee ? It was a body to which, whilst sitting, the House might be said to have delegated its authority as related to the subject of its in quiry, and its objects should be to furnish the House with in tormation on that subject. lie could rot assent to its nomina tion. One necessary condition of the concession of the motion would be, that the question of the corn-laws should not be agi tated in that House during the sitting of the Committee. Were lion. Members opposite prepared to submit to that condition? Mr. BRIGHT—We have no objection. Mr. GLADSTONE—Was the Hon. Member aware of the time such a Committee must consume in its investigations ? What were the subjects of inquiry ? The rates of freight from foreign countries to this—the power of Parliament to regulate the pries of corn—an examination into the doctrine of rent— an inquiry into the condition of the agricultural population, not only of England, but of Scotland and Ireland. Then there were fifteen gentlemen with fifteen different sets of opinions, who put fifteen kinds of questions to witnesses. It was clear that the Anti-Corn-law League must adjourn its sittings sine dic. Mr. BRIGHT—I did not say the League, but this House. Mr. GLADSTONE—WeII, then, lie doubted if the lion. Gentleman's associates were prepared to submit to this pro- _ traction of discussion, even in the House, for the labours of this Committee (particularly as the greater number of it, would be probably composed of protectionists) might be pro longed from session to session. —(Cries of " No, no," from the Opposition.) Even though its sitting might not be so long, still he hardly thought the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton, for instance, who had mentioned his intention of treating the House to its regular annual discussion on the corn-laws, would be satisfied at the postponement of the question. Mr. MILNER GIBSON—No. Mr. GLADSTONE—Nor the Hon. Member for Manches ter, he perceived. Well, then, it would stultify the House to appoint a Select Committee, and yet discuss the subject of its investigation during its sitting. If the Committee were appointed they would unsettle the minds of the people, and paralyse those departments of trade and revenue to which its inquiries had reference. His argument was, that no thing could be done with a Select Committee which could not be done without it. The House was already in possession of all the information which a Committee could be expected to obtain. The appointment of the Committee would add to the agitation which at present prevailed, and what was still worse would add to the appre hension.—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) Whether agitation was good or bad, this country, he believed, could bear a larger quantity of it than any others without suffering any detriment, as long at least as that agitation was only on the surface. He had a strong impression that the League, however active or able its members, under present circumstances, as long as Providence gave the people the en joyment of plenty, as long as Parliament and the Govern ment regarded those pledges, expressed or implied, which they had given the country—the League he said might not be regarded with any serious apprehension, the ceremony at tending it was, perhaps, the most important Fart of its pro ceedings. —(Laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet had already explained the views of the Government, these views the Go vernment still held.—( Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) The appointment of a Committee especially considering who the mover for it seas, would lead the people to think that there was a foregone conclusion on the part of the House to disturb the corn-laws—the Government would be justly reproached with improper levity. Confidence in the Legislature would be shaken; agricultural cater-prise would be checked, and trade would be embarrassed. For the sake of these things, and for the good of the people, he would oppose the rresent motion. illr. HAWES said a more unsatisfactory or trivial speech than that of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down he had never heard. It was absurd to say the qnestion of rent must enter into the subject matter of inquiry of a Select Com mittee. When Agricultural Committees had been hitherto ap pointed by this !louse, not for the purpose of lowering but of raising protection, the question of rent was not considered then. Why should it now, when protection was sought to be removed? —( Hear, hear.) 'I he Hon. Member fur Stockport had clearly shown that the greatest moral and physical degradation ex isted in the country, and even if the labours of a Committee were extended over several sessions, it ought not to be refused on that ground. If there was no evil in the system of protec tion, and if inquiry would not expose that evil, why shrink from it.?—( Hear, hear. ) They were questions of fact that would come before the Committee. The Right lion. Gentle man had talked of the plentiful harvest, but he (Mr. Hawes) thought that policy was indeed unsafe which depended upon fa• vourabic moments of sunshine and the chance of good weather. —( Hear, hear. ) They could not always expect such harvests as those of 1835 and 1836, when corn was so low in price ; they were contrary to experience, and were exceptions to the rule ; and yet by those exceptions the Right Hon. Gentleman wished to legislate. Then with regard to pledges, bethought it did not become Right Honourable Gentlemen opposite to talk of pledges, who had pledged themselves to the old system of corn-laws now for ever abandoned.—(Hear, hear.) ( The Hon. Gentleman then read an extract from the speech of Lord Liverpool, in introducing the corn-law of 1815, to show that the Noble Lord's object at that time was to mitigate-the evil that resulted from the fall in prices, and to prevent the new adjustment or compromise which otherwise must have taken place between the owners and the occupiers of land. He then continued to ask if no such adjustment had since taken place, and if they did not hear every day of rents falling, and of abatements taking place in the landlord's de mands.) The law of 1815 was therefore, he would maintain, . ' ] intended not to produce greater regularity in prices, but to meet a special case which had long since passed away ; and , , those who would rely on the case made by Lord Liver. pool to support the existing law, should consequently be prepared to do away with a corn-law altoge ther.—(Hear, hear.) But the Right Hon. Gentleman said if the Committee were granted that prices would stagnate, and that men's minds would become unsettled on the question of corn-laws. He thought a stronger argument than that was he had never heard. They saw the mind of no man settled on - the question, and when public opinion out of doors became well directed, as he thought it likely soon to be, under his Hon. Friend the Member for Stockport, he would not be inclined to attach much weight to the opposition of the Right Hon. Gen- 1 tleman.—( Hear, hear.) They were at this very moment about to have a Committee on tobacco, and they had also Corn.. mittecs on the timber trade and on various other branches of commerce, and he would ask were they the means of producing any great fluctuation in trade?—( Hear.) It was not by the appointment or the inquiries of Committees that trade in the ales w r a s t i c a ff e c t w e d i d , i c b h u t t h ii e ttl,sl C vyaa o hs m seubn m ny t i d t ht t ehe e re e s t s ccoo w oou e r r s e e t a a p k p e o n i appointed d t h e to G investigate over nm en t dvetrhnamt e n n o t in s l a rn id ed ' i l it N e o a l l ' t e t r o at t i h on e l ' p r e o s p p u e l c a t r i ndge demand h a e n m d : was likely to take place ; but nobody believed that by giving a negative the Government intended to persevere in doing so longer than circumstances rendered prudent or expedient.— ~ (Hear.) Th e Ri g h t Hon. Gentleman said that the Hon. Mem- t ber for Stockport had not traced the distress of the country , to the corn-laws ; but he (M r . H awes ) t h ought otherwise. When 1 he had referred to the injury done by the corn-laws to the working men, he had little expected to find a good and apposite proof of his allegation in the Report of one of the Commis sioners sent down by the Government to inquire into the state of education in Norfolk. In the Report of that Commission for 1840 and 1841 it was stated that wages did net rise in proportion to the increase in the price of corn. The Hon. Gentleman then read some extracts from the Report, in which the cases of two families of agricultural labourers were given. In one the man earned Its. a week, or 4es. a month, and his son 4s. a week, or 16s. a month, making in all 645. a month ; out of which 535. were paid for a bag of flour for her u r 6r purposes.ser npoh, o n t rt ' ea 9s. applicabl e t o other In the other only il case, which occurred in 1841, th e ablie, a wee k and h i s son 3s a week, making in al while the cos t o f a b ag o f fl our was 425., l t l l abourer . s a earned n p i leaving 14s. applicable to general purposes. He then continued to say that there were other similar casca given in the Re port, all showing that a fluctuation in prices produced a fluctua tion in the miseries of the poor.--( Hear.) He thought they ought to take into consideration the class to whom the inquiry would be confined if the Committee were appointed. The witnesses that it was proposed to examine would be landlords and farmers, who would be interested in the means by which rent was to be paid. Now, if the payment of rent depended, as he believed would be allowed, on the surplus of produce, and on the capital and skill embarked in raising the produce, it must necessarily follow that all those requisites were materially affected by whatever would give the greatest amount of security to the farmer. But, he asked, did the corn-laws ensure that security ? From 1515 to the present moment, every corn-law that had been introduced had gradually broken down, leaving the agriculturists in constant hasecurity and doubt.—( Hear. ) He considered the speech of the Right Hon: Gentleman as being in reality one in support of the motion of his lion. Friend, for it had altogether failed in shoe big that the tenant-farmers and labourers had any interest in the continuance of the corn laws ; and by refusing the Committee, with such a speech, the Right Hon. Gentleman merely invited them to go into the subject again; for instead of waiting fur a repeal of the corn laws until the country was plunged into misery by bad harvests, when it was to be inferred they would have no difficulty in procuring it, they should rather endeavour to have the question settled while they were blessed with corn- '. l 01 , .. Tb ree 03 t.1:1 5.) 63