The Sun. — London, England, 1845-05-17 00:00:00

'Ol O o Pe""olic , t io ishi p Dor(' tit er nt•rose 4 fi lso OO P- IWO . frC i l Lt1 011' .1,15 0 tbe nye tr ess ar/ ine e c o' Tb e d the e, aDat , diDg fel/ to bet t vi er e re her e ook' ci. the ~1 13 Id Pju • oti ' an d bon"' claY )1° to s4.s' !. j, fog P'• P 11:1 1 4 of se r OE O fo lo . 1 bis ete t.l i O5- ing 'no dis' . t he 0 0 per , 3 vis e 1, 00 , 330 se re - thes a der the , for hl , 0 0 il l ` * ov e ore a• Rilll °n it• . ar lea . e ntlV , • rvr Acfc o ld rith oet .o listrlre' • e tb t" 3 - ,0 1 5 rit • into" gr6 °c g ° ic on the of cl 11°61 Lard. a9t °ll fforla/ ti de 11 . e , vllr 1 30 i ilsa i. the Whet' of London; v esta, the ;tions to $ ls and read nu mber Of a t• t ions al Ve' l o f the se" ft pe titio n icy g °f i , tbe ion - g ht , lhat re „üb ,tur'c o f portion d rC3 , out it into ''the aria ' 0 31'1' j , 11 s otee 6 • 00' be g ee „ ~ive v" yed ilea I'l corporfi.te, 11 1 Y, frttte rn.) tc ; vs terf ver hoe linthis , res weans" in t h ‘ ir , nft harit io c ov body' .s :ell 0 to b e re- tS• 00 • a are en 113/4irj ii t t hr A l9l 'of 1 e Aug' e 5 of ;he °' re' Y to b' if re' ro ve, to t E louse,, , r e c hstP or i et, i O O roPriat oP the efor g l oot ' a de' 15 gri Conr iyel tO lOreol. 01 ch r iosv a fll )6 0 , 1 %.00 1 c 1 lea° At• io rt• toP so ots. for Po oil The il/. ifer C o t o • to t i oe re ill en dttu uo lic no P in , le of , r i o c resPettb b i 4 o ldP" on thOt the bt - (1 4 f riell baa be . f f it•lm ,ppo•• rre" f c; .ti'SE• tb° raing 96 GAN P isce Foul r o the as for 0 , ,; iv re ° 1 t; fig 615 e ift op e , 0 0ti" , he 4o0d ) i 3 ill° reral de fecil log , ll ce. ..eu was at that time at the .ve h te ea n d om Board of Trade, and he had from tion reason to believe that it was not p h t e l t f h e a r t es g e e w ntlem et an s intention to have stopped there, m o t f h u n i the C a l s railway projects were introducedfosromeshefunrhtih,etrherreegreurlae, lions would have to be adopted. move that the clause of which should form one of the standing . o Hh r e d e er h s ad of g t i unnecessary, it Should experience prove that this was The vheen House.no t notice lion. Member , could be very easily rescinded. then moved that a clause be addedto t e la f e Bill authorising the Railway Department Betted of Trade to the the railway by And be it further enacted, that nothing herein shall be deemed or construed to exempt e e e ff n ec ta t in : — ed thisor the said recited Acts authorised to be m sn a e d h e ß fr i r e, of an of any general Act relating to - may or o f any general Act relating to railwiyys, hereafter pass during the present or any . of Perliament, adhat the said resolution order of this u s e on f a b e t wn a rheic standing shes i °n Mr. GISBORNE objected to these frequent attempts at patching up the standing orders.. Mr. DARBY thought the motion ought to be ad •'°uresd to a more convenient time. Mr. AWES thought a longer notice e o t f ie t n he nu m g o h t t io t n e o ught to have been given, and that the be br for a week. gest that the motion should be deferred ien _ ha ve forward in a fuller House. m ile would sug d would adept te Si r G• CLERK hoped his Hon. Fr the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Lambeth. heard '''' G• Clerk) had only that moment M otion. of the e Mr. LABOUCHERE agreed with the principle ofci t p n leaniot•e the Motion, but tho ug h t it ought to be postponed eftvenient period, de fer the A.D STONE recommended his Hon. Friend to motion. Le he motion was then withdrawn, and Mr. S. WORT ', gave notice that he should renew RAILWAY. „ebI.TIILIN AND MULLINGAR 1 . appeared at the -"be Lord Mayor of Dublin, Mr. O'Brien, l ett vy w A ee .y. k . . petition in bar fav ' Athlone Railway in his oificial robes, and presented a t il ' l ' . ll r of the Dublin, Hollinger, and ,4•NCIIESTER AND LIVERPOOL RAlL a W ne A h Y es .. tes".4 and naotion of . Mr. ENTWISLE, • the M tura Liverpool Railway Bill was re A ad isT a D second time. lIIIGIIAM, GLOUCESTER, • TER RAILWAY. Oa the • lied r„ motion of Mr. SPOONE . R, on) Railway Bill was vioucester (Worcester Extension) reel It second time. the Birmingham his tie at- Trubnt‘tain PECRELL presented a petition from William ra e i sue a of Eustou in Essex, complaining of Assessed Taeee- In the hands ' of the Commissioners of Colones!rri urcharging him for a e eg e i ta .h VVO^asse' presented a ga p m etition from Brecon, Lora tee grant to Maynooth. . . ro e e 1 tlil.lloN presented a petition against the Pa s,. a ,ettlenapnt pill. threl:Z* '3IIERVILLE prevented BaißeaA,lii f avour of the Dublin Me L s , and Belfast el P f e as ti tt petition from Junction ' nnetieee,sorderr's Eofli tnlhe"eddayi Arthu'r ig . , 4 11 07, 1... /3/. .....tia lk o z v r e e d ed f t o e r . leave of absence for Sir ~ Sa• It se.SINESS OF THE HOUSE. that th at thi of motions on Teesdays. shouldaftehravMeonvolay,detnheee2edveorf ise e , s w ould n ot i n any wa y interfere s Motion - M e ei . ie 8 H e hadr precedence e i t t h a taken car e x very materially intepterelio.nourable Baronet Right sseuLBIiELEY said that the proposition of the would d e had given notice, and whi i l i ul l the motion of which h Ne e° e was of c onsiderable interest.. as he had h eee of th e s h, postponement of that motion,t obtain a Hoti en e l le, on two several occasions, He had given or thse*, e r oust say, that the exressed intention che_ e , night its Baronet would d pr i e le clud tr e ns the ted that th ot its comin g on then, an shoul d ee Governesent would give some assurance i t t h e a t t e h ed e on 'e allowed to bring it forward on the day of the paper for. His nao - tion referred to an amendment S' llB(Av eneY Act passed last session. le . lee , keeping le vet , e t' or the Government was a party said that he was not aware that any made a ilip'::_`lternbers•This was evidenced the ° the other evens ap e hen HL for Finsbury Onourable Member eppor tonite' t? which the Government had had no ett6 ‘-jt rePlYing. He could assure the i nt to er that he should offer no impediment o pr's ard of his motion. t H t o h n e o h u r r i a n b g l e_ to t aidt e il ' BBIMELEY said that he did not wish b° chow .isPeech, and if a Committee were granted him Se t ad he perfectly satisfied. vtlii,tl u‘VISING said that a very great anxiety pre he th on the subject of the Hon. Member . s mot w io es n, a im nd_. Pezt r , ° . :; . _ g ly i l te,ti nomination motion on the of • a Committee Pap e , 'Y4IO) mid that he also had interests a of the eeerrelative to the agricultural il,,g P ry, ,, which he had not had not have a Nte:r..4rd• and he was afraid heshouldHe attached no bla k es of bringing it on this session. He an opportunity of bring , A1r1,,,e/er. to the Right lion et eni Z, he felt bound to say that though, ") hie- "siEy sa id , that as reference l3a ha e d n b t e h e e n made r t eed . Yet h e 44 deal g he had had an opportunity_o f fsaying y not expressed the half finger of what a h g e re in a - t I,i d t o ha e aid._ (Ironical cheers, and cries of " Oh, ° Re wnui 'l setrnit that he had finished as the et the clock emit 40,1041 Iv..,n;c: and he approachingepeeted that as the ‘ ht Right V ern e "lb • Gentleman was g o i ng to reply, e that period there the fatal h . , ur ely tyrould have listened te him. and sixty hers prsent, and • whe n It the Bight 11 might be remembered opened the quest' we re between fift l y mmedia Membersattenipt hasdenh ; pre on. B aronet the Home Secretary t to e, tlen•e were not more than thirteen es If get led f Yet, even under these circumstane side r , „ een Made on that (the 0 tooldlt dou d like to if th e u „. - .eie Motion by couuting the o of ppos Rion) u. w 4y, . Pe Ns:uelbusiness was to be got rid of in this sort allt hotline* persevered in, hould know how any businessat no be e ne ? Ale did think that such a course s the bY the sof the country was to be attended to. He saw if it was intended that I_. the _ the that the Right Honourable Baone - t 4 t of her Majesty's Government had a notice of ioat t 4 o , e 0 the e e, ffect he would move that after the 13th notices of of the day should take precedence he t would lik e motion. If that should be agreed °I bri a p h e,,,!°snow what chance any Hon. sn'ee ,7-6 any motions of which he might have ee „ibott, otice. IT chance eels uld say they had no Membet'rl'had % nu !r• Therefore be would say that if the Right HT. ii % ,s (4pmet would withdraw his mess of a Medicalß i ttl e , itbJecteje;'lde.Y) would not say a word more upon formh %,k, t,‘,l9ar, and a laugh) —but in its present Me es,LerlY impossible it could be carried. Weeds CIAPPORD O'BRIEN begged to say a few d " t .ads hIl AFFORD to th 11 hi ado is ses e on. Member opposite,__ art of *' 'Per h`,r.,.. O'Brien's) name the most striking pa ' l4 ra• e ' Now, he h e he Hon. Member as he had no .mists' ctogethegg:d tot say . that a_tetr had r .bou him, 1 Ilea, nelalieti or s u from the Right (fl e •s•teeet ggestion whatever h to move that the House be cmented.— sPeeei; ea r.) out h he received the cei e of th e R , e would say, that during Neeti, te Peatese n. Gentleman he (Mr. O'Brien) had re esclissi, ea,o applicatiors to move that the House be hter, Steeeries o f t 4„ Ilion. Members opposite.—(Laughter, the the;s'', G entl e et !'e, name.") At one period more 01 1 S.P,elve tu a° s speech there were 'lee) d . etnbers present ; but even then heMr. l ecieled be d ea t ee) Lo int ers% odd vette -- for he said he spoke well—and It w St te rto ear pt the Hon. Member—(Hear, eetebeeierre obi Hon. '' " a 'ss- ' what he had to say in that House than be e s roas de h—(Laughter) —and when the 4,6 v counted but h had received no intimation ' h ' l lse he Ale, he (Mr. O'Brien) intended to innve th . a n t (e i ,e to that , e . th at gar sQ , Gra. effect from the Right Hon. Gentleman e lets r l 'e had t'.r2are). However as he now undrsto i o l d e c , `on e be, nterrupted the Hon. Member before .4 z ;al teal I r ,gged to apologise to him.—(Laughter.) er 4 ' Stye ''HELL presented a petition from • .Ny ul ' h, of }li r 9, t ,, ~the county of Southamton formerly due to ar, fi'thich 4 , he and Purser in the navy, for a balance tl tri eteeclld Governmentbtrin though he frequently c) s for it. c t t h S UPPLY. ' air II ()tin t, \ ,' -, o le s li . e that the Speaker should leave the on "avt rsti'ClUse going into Committee of Supply grade.r -r,,tt,aates, aohrth .eNEY, according to noties, brouht eedailS, eaettZeeration of the House the case of ; Mr. tea i j i ftlgh t i Mortgagee of the ship Velocity, seized 1 ted -at° Plymouth for an act of smuggling itte'lr. Q4at.t..lout the knowledge of the owner. _ tes'eaefee. woueWtLL said that he deemed it right to hone q 01'0,4_143 about the facts of the case. In the sesePit itit'uher last the ship Velocity was seized and kse t , led tc , itlYris.. .outh harbour ; the circumstance srs,on_oent fo,, s, aeizure was a quantity of contraband sr d"7:lentet,er.tit_ on board, and when the Custom-house toieeAtteZetl fest'`tie vessel, they were forcibly detained, th Q -4 . the cabin. It was true that in this_ e s te ot 1 Petitioner was onl the mortgagee, and 1 e-entetet. h ave h ad .. y , . 4 (le r I CII, b ut allY participation in the guilt of the v ele aac toie the law recognised no distinction, and thetaletitereartistances it was impossible for the Go 111Yhttli t erei4 e any discretion. He much regretted o e , elt eeAseal should suffer, but in the present in ,,CPreeedellteot be avoided without making a dange te, ;1,11 ptkin b§rikirt OF THE NAVy. 4 tt ,,le tq and called the attention of the , Se tt )", eed te Present system of manning her Majesty's able eea tlrpircioerh%*blettitf6st_ell,lstY th.at arses in procuring__ nt Mem. J' k r , esded to _.Y ervice. Ihe Hon. and Gii ', th '3' o r fe'eae', that he had never been a influenced a ;Ihe s aeth 'lave, et;',`.."°es motives in bringing the state , e l' i n oe "er the consideration of the House, 10 'its sid e out of office—whether on that or on the 'III ° I . the , did any cees, . Rouse, he never would tF , i t , t. t„, 1., !aeration whatever to sway his conduct. to '&4 4 ' , er isi "ce to see sea. co mplements,war coreple sciitils'74ls:;eeace°2l2Plernents, bee he considered them .; a I st , • tie weo'SePer complement was the thing that was_ i ~,,,,.‘.er bie, bas refer the lion. and Gallant Admiral en ey 4 , o " ne (Capt. Berkeley) had written to Sir Okt` g iliti,,, t b U r• In that letter he sent a scheme asee }, ICltered p.inciple. li"kh - e (C a t . ° ee he said that the suggest( 9.lli''llr '' " na.v . °n "' ' Before Sir George .m ak,'tee the / I P ate Berkeley) had made was one ss, t hat t R&D° George t be e adopt, and he -Ns- e,,, , --er ueorge : m ur was quite as tave as is, -.1 7 out the prin:iyleo after he came into e s 4 - was , l et ad et before. It apteared that ships of 82 4, t sh% etitti4:4l; 01144,ea nu mber of - tn - en as ships of 84 guns, ,It ,hr te eet , 8411) must have too man en, o Oir s Ip, a, m . , too few. Give him y a m singhl ttl,4 4:11111 the"voodeck ship, or a three-deck e ship ts each had to umber, of guns and the weight f carry, and in one moment he would :h i ip7as. ks f th e proper consplement each ship ought - `' l lse ''t 9n clund t hat, th 4 1,. Rue, at, tinder the present system, e t. ee tt t lt the ', and 92 guns and 104 guns, were all 'lt surdit ~413ae number of men. Now, was not Cap e ; e( % r ill )eklatiltk . litatztt —lt is not so. ' Y Said the only method that he had of knowing was by looking to the returns of the ships, acd, as far as he could judge from those, the ships he had named were classed the same. Sir G. COCKBURN—The 104-gun ships are not. Captain BERKELEY con t inued—W hy then was there no difference between the 90 guns and the 92-gun ship 3? It was as great a fault to over man as to under-man a ship, for in all cases the crews should be proportioned to the number of guns. But above all things, it was unwise to send the experimental squadron to sea under-manned. —(Hear, hear.) Certainly a better man could not have been chosen than the Gallant Admiral who was to take that squadron to sea. But he feared that the result would be disappointment in consequence of the want of a suffi cient complement of able seamen. The consequence would be that the officers and the captains would become discontented with each other, and the Admiral would " blow up" them all. The Hon. and Gallant Officer then read a letter of considerable length from Sir Hyde Parker, but from the low and rapid manner in which he read it, we could only gather that the Gallant Ocffier disapproved of the mode in which the experimental squadron was to be manned. Now he would go back to 1836. He was going to show that this was not the only board that meted in this way, but that other boards acted in a similar way. In 1836 he was appointed to a ship. There were seven ships of the line building at that time. He found at that time that there was the greatest difficulty in getting men, and other captains were in the same predicament. They were obliged to have recourse to the coact-guard service. It was stated that they had no reason to complain, for the same class of ships as that which he commanded bore the same number of men now. It was well known that captains were anxious to get able-bodied seamen, and men came to him and said that they would enter for his ship, provided he would enter them as able bodied men, but he told them he did r.ot consider them as such. He feared he was wearying the House with these de tails, but this was a subj, ct of the greatest importance to the House and to the public; and whether they were landsmen or seamen they should all consider that this was a question en which the safety of the navy depended. The lion. Member then described the duties of a sailor, and said that in former days no man was deemed an efficient seaman until he was thoroughly conversant with those duties; but now-a•days sailors were very dif ferent indeed, and so they would continue to be until hie plan should be adopted. When he was out upon a voyage recently he found that out of twelve of his crew there were only seven who knew how to go into the chains and use the lead. When on that station, he re ceived an order from , the then Board of Admiralty, stating that the men in his ship should be allowd to volunteer into any other ship. On receiving this order, l.e took it on himself to do that which he conceived was required by the peculiar circumstances of the case. But he was well aware that if he threw difficulties in the way of the Board of Admiralty—if he endeavoured to shirk the order which they bad Riven him—he should not be doing his duty. He therefore addressed a letter to Sir William Gage, and he told him that if any man from his ship were allowed to volunteer into any other, he should not be able to bring her home—he would not undertake to bring her home. Sir William Gage, who commanded on the station, came on beard his ship ; he examined the company, he went through the whole of them, and then he said that he should not take one man from him, nor allow them to volunteer into any other ship. Be recollected, in 1836, that there was one man who was asked at the rendezvous how long he was at sea, and on informing them that he was twenty-two years at sea, he was put down as an able-bodied seaman. But the fact turned out to he that he was a discharged marine.— (Laughter.) The Hon. and Gallant Member then read an extract from a letter which he had received, in 1839, from Portsmouth, which stated that the Powerful an chored after dark, and the mcn were in such a state that they took more than half an hour furling the sells, and the maintop they could not furl. In 1840 he (Captain Berkeley) was appointed to her Majesty's ship the Thunderer, and it appeared that the few good men whom he had in the Hercules were paid off and came to the Thunderer. He sent an officer to Plymmth, and Sir David Dunn sent one to Portsmouth. Sir David Dunn told him there was no use in having a rendezvous in Plymouth while the Thunderer was in Portsmouth. Sir David Dunn told him (Captain Berkeley) that when he asked able seamen in the streets to join his ship, they said " No, we will go to the Thunderer, for the officers there make the work light, and wish to see their ship gully and properly manned." He asked the Gallant Officer opposite was not that accounting for the under , manned state of the navy. The Hon. and Gallant Ad miral had, some nights ago, hinted that the blame of de ficiency was not owing to him, but to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who would not supply the funds. If he (Captain Berkeley) were in the Hon. Gentleman's place, if they did not give him men enough, he would make his bow and withdraw from office.—(llear, hear.) He would now pass on to show why men could not be ob tained. The first great reason was the general use of steam-boats substituting machinery for hand labour. Let them look to Liverpool and the other great ports, and they would find that passage-boats had been entirely laid aside. At Plymouth and Portsmouth a great number of wherries were formerly in use, and a great number of persons were thus trained to the sea ; but this description of vessel was now but little used. He would now again turn for a moment to the case of the Thunderer, from which he had been diverted by an interruption from the Honourable Gentleman opposite. The course they were pursuing would not do. They ought to have a system fur manning ships, and they ought not to break faith with the seamen. They ought not to do with the men what they had done with them in China. It was true they had _given batta to them, but the fact was, they had not given them prize money for what they had done in China. What hsd been done ? Why, Government had taken everything, and given their seamen nothing. And now, let him ask, why was it that he had taken the trouble to make these statements? In former times the merchant service was a sort of nursery for the men-of- war ; b u t now th e ships were rigged in dock by old Greenwich p e n s i oners , and, in fact, it was the men-of-war who fur nished the merchant service with men. He did not expect that the Board of Admiralty would be induced to remedy those defects of which he complained, merely because he made those representations ; but those discussions would have a very useful effect out of doors ; and it often happened that they tended to carry a point; for upon a former occa sion he was defeated in that House by a large majority upon a motion that he had brought forward ; but it was looked upon as so important by the public, that the Whig First Lord of the Admiralty, who then came into office, expressed his approval of the project, because public opinion and the press were in favour of it.— (Hear, hear.) He meant the affsir of the ten-gun brigs. —(Hear, hear.) He would not trouble the House with any further observations. Sir G. COCKBURN said he should answer the state ments of the Gallant Officer, first, by saying that he was very much surprised to hear the Gallant Officer begin his speech by charging him (Sir G. Cockburn) with having stated that he conceived there was no difficulty whatever in manning the fleet. Now he (Sir George Cockburn) had stated exactly the reverse of that, for he said it had been found impossible to get efficient men when they were wanted ; and that when men were dis charged from a man-of-war they either went into fore'gn service or the merchant service, or got some sort of em ployment, for they required bread. as well as other men; and then, in three or four years time, if they should happen to be wanted, they were not to be had. But at "present the state of the navy was not so bad as the Gal lant Officer supposed; for all the vessels were well manned, except, ho believed, the Queen, the Hibernia, and the Canopus. As to what the Gallant Officer had stated about men unfit to use the lead in the chains, he (Sir G. Cockburn) begged to say that when he was in com mand of a ship he always tried his men before he rated them. Captain BERKELEY said that the men he had men- Coned had been sent to him rated. suffering a full-manned vessel never to leave her moor ings was the greatest. These . vessels were supplied with some thirty or forty-five wave young fellows, who were anxiously expecting that they would one day become officers, but whose inexperience did more injury to the service than anything else. He recolleeted an instance of a line-of-battle ship having been kept at her moorings for three years and three months, and then sent to sea. Now, what was the result ? Why, halt — the seamen were sea- sick, and the vessel itself %as found unseaworthy. If they wanted to have an efficient service, they must place active and experienced officers over the men, and not put persons in command who had never seen a storm or a squall. He would break up the fifteen line-of-ba•.tle ships, and distribute the men and officers amongst small brigs. If Government would adopt this plan, the service would be restored to its• former state, for thus the men and the officers would have an opportunity of being constantly at sea and in squalls. Captain PECHELL concurred with the Hon. and Gallant Member who had just sat down, and thought it was sufficiently clear that the Hon. and Gallant Member admitted the existence of the want of men in the navy. Now he should be glad if the Hon and Gallant Member would explain how it happened that when he was in com mand of the Pique, and was required of his superior officer to furl a sail, or to perform some other manoeuvre whilst in the Bay of Cadiz, he stated that he was unable to do so because some of his men were absent in a boat. Why did not the Hun. and Gallant Member state the real cause of his being unable to perform it, namely, that his ship was not sufficiently manned. Captain ROUS—It is the first time I ever heard of it. Melville said, some years ago, that we could no longer depend on the merchant service, but must look to ourselves, an d k eep up a l arger p ro p or ti on of men in training. The -same observation now forcibly applied, and he calls d upon the First Lord of the Trea sury and the Government to come forward in a liberal spit it and supply the deficiency of the navy. Though the cloud to whi c h t h e Ri ght flon. Baronet a f ew even ings ago adv er t e d was li kely to pass away, they should not forget that l as t year they were on t h e ver y verge o f a rupture with France. There were two other evils to which he wished to call the attention of the House. The first was to the men's clothing, and the second their pay.. Men should be paid by twelve months in the yen-, and not by thirteen, as was the present way—an absurd practice, whi c h h a d not hi ng but ant i qu i ty to recommen d it. Again, tl:e pay of the petty officer should be varied, so as to give him confidence in his position, and make a substantial distinction between his position and that of the common seaman. The first class petty officer ought to receive -IL a month, and the second 31. As regarded the present systeth of Clothing, the .sooner it was aban doned the better. Nobody was benefited by it but the contractor. The men euilit to be clothed at the ports at which they touched. They ought to be measured and fitted out in a proper manner, and not on that poor slop-shop system,which was a disgrace to theßritish navy. The institution to which he had referred was the Sea man's Home in London. That institution had been founded by Captain Elliott, a commander in the navy, at his own especial risk, nay, indeed, he had risked his a hole fortune in establishing the - institution. It was an institution of a highly important and valuable character. Most men would have thought that some mark of dis tinction would have - been conferred on an officer for such a sacrifice as this. But no such mark had been con ferred.. Yet this institution took men out of the hands of the crimps, p rov id ed them a comforta bl e an d re spectable home, where th e y cou ld o bt a in everything on moderate terms. H e t h ought some means m i g h t have been adopted by the B oar d of Admiralty to avo id t h e ex cessive charges to which seamen were subject, for the system of crimps had become a regular traffic. The men were laid hold of--they were taken on board ship, and charged a high price for everything they required. Their clothing was of the worst description, and all the articles they obtained were hardly worth one-half of the money which they gave for them.—(" Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) Hon. Gentlemen might say " Hear, hear," but he had been obliged to employ crimps himself.—(flear.) The men were laid hold of— they were .made half drunk a few shillings wrapped up in a pound-note- %%ere shoved into their hands, and they were told that they had been paid two months' wage's in advilice. He had seen this practised on three or four hundred men at a time. He stated these circumstances because he wished to obtain efficient sea men for the service. This had occurred not in the time of the present Government.—(Hear.) He did not care a farthing about parties when speaking of the navy. He had urged upon the preceding Government, though he was not, at that time a Member of the House, the pro priety of making some small grant to the Sailors' Home— something that would enable it to lift its head above water when it was in great difficulty. And now he would urge upon the present Government the same thing. If. they would make only a small bounty, it would enable the institution to reduce the charge of board to the men from 12s. to Bs. per week. He would do more than this, for he would venture to press upon the Government the necessity of establishing Sailors' Homes at Portsmouth, Plymouth. and all the other places where ships were paid off. If they did this, the seamen, instead of falling into the hands of the sharks when they returned from a voyage, would be able to go to a place where they would obtain every accommoda tion at a reasonable rate, vliere they could leave their things, and when they went on a cruise, .as they were sure to do, they could put ss. or 10s. into their pockets, and the reet would be taken care of, inst ea d o f as now spending the earnings of years in the extravagance of a week.—(Hear.) There was but another su bj ec t t o which he would allude—the prize-money in China. The ships taken in that country, of which there had been a great number, instead of being regularly condemned, had been sent into different ports and afterwards re turned into the Chinese at a , . very redu ce d rat i ng. T he seamen had been sent to Caine, an unhealthy coun t r y. They had honestly earned their prize-money and they had been always accustomed to rec e i ve i t ; and yet he ch believed that the Eastlna Company at this time was in. pesseesion of 150,0001. from the sale Of guns and other stores, and that more than 80,000/ of Batta money had never been paid which was due forthe Canton cam p a i gn . He did not think it • was fair that th e seamen should be deprived of their prize-money, in order that the Government might obtain a sum from the Chinese towards defraying the expenses of the war. This, he thought, was a penny-wise and a pound-foolish system. He would not trouble the House with any further ob servations, but he had been anxious to bring th e su bject of the navy strongly under the notice of Government. Mr. WILLIAMS had a very high respect for the of the 1101149, but he had a very great objection to opinions of the two Gentlemen who had spoken on his side in creasing the navy estimates, and he thought the matter had better be left in the hands of the Government. Sir G. COCKBURN then continued, by saying the. very few vessels of war had now more than six or eight landsmen each in them. He concurred in the observa tions of the Gallant Officer, that men-of-war sent abroad should be manned by efficient seamen. When he (Sir G. Cockburn) was in command of a ship, the navy e as la a most efficient state, because it was necessary the.i ; and he remembered, upon one occasion, that several men-of-war were ready at forty-eight hours' notice to sail for Lisbon. He could assure the Gallant Officer that means had lately been adopted to procure efficient men ; and when the vessels now in preparation were ready, they would be taken to the mouth of the Channel, and the qualifications of the sailors and marines then tried. As to what had been said about not having ten sail of the line always in commission and ready for sea at a short notice, that was matter for the consideration of Government, and they would have them ready if they should deem it necessary, but the question was, was it necessary to put the country to such_ an expense at such a period.—(Hear, hear.) With re gard to men entering the merchant service in preference to the navy, he conceived that the contrary was the fact, for when men entered the merchant service they were so badly treated, and had so many deductions made from them, that they entered the navy when they could. — (Hear, hear.) He did not know that he had left any other point of the Gallant Officer's speech unnoticed. Mr. SOMES remarked that a good deal had been said of the paucity of men at present in the navy, and fur his part he could not understand how Hon. Members could indulge in assertions of this nature. In 1814 the num ber of seamen in the service was 170,876, and at the present time the number was 216,350, making an increase of 42,000. He however admitted that the number of men who were active and able had nut increased in propor tion to the quality that were in the service in 1814. Mr. H. LAMBTON complained that the crimping system was the cause of the existence of great evils amongst seamen. Numbers of poor sailors who entered the port of London were daily being plundered by these crimps, and he thought Government ought to take some steps to put an end to the system. There was another abuse which ought to be put down. When sailors came into the port of London they were seized upon by low boarding-house keepers, who plunged them into every sort of vice , _ and when they had got all their money out of them they turned them into the streets to starve. He hoped Government would take these matters into their serious consideration, and see if some means could not be devised to put an end to these abases. Captain ROUS said there was as great a scarcity of men in the service in 1824 as there was at the present time, but he did not attribute the evils which existed in the navy to this cause, but rather to the want of experienced and efficient officers. It was well known that when they arrived at a certain time of life they began to think women were not so handsome as they had before imagined them ; and, in his opinion, some Hon. Members had arrived at that time of life when they began to think seamen were not so able and active as they were formerly.—(Laughter.) But if they wished to have good seamen in the service, they must take care te have active and experienced officers over them. At present ships were allowed to remain at home, and he thought, of all the absurdities in the world, that of Captain PECHELL said he had been informed of the circumstance by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Gloucester, who at the time it occurred was in command in the bay of Cadiz. lie believed they had the will to man their ships properly, but they would not effect that object in the way they were proceeding. He complained of the way that men were transferred from one ship to another. The moment a ship was paid off, the seaman whether belongig to the navy or merchant service was considered a mark to be plundered by every person who was so inclined—that was a system which ought to be repro%ated. Another thing which seamen had to com plain of was their being placed in the ten-gun brigs. It was well known that they were unsafe, and not fit to be used as the means of conveyance between this country. What was the opinion of the country with respect to them? Why, several of those vessels were offered for sale at Somerset House by Mr. Corry and Sir William Symonds. They asked 1,0001. for each of them, but they would not fetch even 5001. Then, again, they had good reason to complain as to the payment of their wages. They felt that they were not paid well enough, and he told them it would be well to raise the wages of seamen now, when it was probable that they would be obliged to raise them in a short time. His Hon. Friend alluded to the want of able-bodied men. That was a matter which the country had a deep interest in. How could it be expected that those able-bodied men would come to them, when their wages were so small ? They would not come back till a more liberal system was adopted towards them. They were gone, he was afraid, to America and elsewhere, where they were better paid. The Gallant Officer stated that it was the intention of the Government to man the experimetrusl squadron, and to give the ships the proper complements. That was very good, but what he (Captain Pechell) wanted was, that the same system should be carried out generally with regard to the navy. Those ships may not be wanted alone at the chops of the Channel. They might) be malted again at Tangiers, to look after the Prince de Joinville and the Belle Poule. They were told they ought not to speak of that Prince; but if their presence were wanted in any part of the world, they ought to be in a position to enable them to be there with effect. He knew that the Admiralty were not the great obstacle to what he required. He knew the great obstacle was the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who was a millstone around the necks of the Board. But there were the Hon. Member for Montrose and the Hon. Member for Coventry, who looked so well after the pub lic and they had no abjection to see the navy of the country put into a proper and efficient condition. Mr. SOMES explained. Lord INGESTRI rose for the purpose of expressing his assent to what had fallen from 'his Hon. and Gallant Friend the Member for Westminster. He thought that no more important question could come before the House than the way in which their ships were manned. The Hon. and Gallant Member for Brighton had spoken of the way in which the seamen belonging to the navy were treated • but he believed that they had more com forts in the British navy than in any service in the world. He gave the present Government credit for wishing to see the navy properly manned. Sir C. NAPIER said that the Right Hon. and Gallant Officer had frequently complained that the lion. Members on his (Sir C. Napier's) side of the House were constantly finding fault. The same assertion had been repeated on that night. He declared now, as he had done on former occasions, that he had no wish whatever to find fault with any B nird of Admiralty— the present or any other—however constituted. He felt satisfied that his Hon. Friend the Member for Glou cester did not get up for the purpose of finding fault. It was not their interest to find fault. Had he (Sir C. Napier) remained silent— had he behaved himself in a proper manner—(Laughter)—he would be now in a better position. The Hoc. and Gallant Officer smiled at this, but it was not the less likely that bad he been more quiet, and less given to the fair and open ex pression of his opinion on naval matters, he would noiv have been in command of the experimental squadron, or at least of one of the ships belonging to it. A Lord of the Admiralty bad assured him that he would have been very happy to see him in command, and had asked him what ship he liked ; but when he subsequently expressed surprise at having been passed over, he was told that be was too violent and too much of a party man. Ile disclaimed being a party man, or a violent man, upon any question in which the naval service of this country was concerned, and he defied any one to show it. He had long sought, by private representations to the Admiralty, to reform abuses, and render the service more effective, but found such representations utterly useless. Nothing could be done for the navy in that House, except by agitation.— (Hear.) It was the only way to get ships properly manned and fitted out. Unless when driven by public opinion, the Govertliment never would abandon their old course. The Gallant Officer seemed offended that his Hon. and Gallant Friend should have said, on a former occasion, that the navy was not sufficiently manned ; and the Gallant Officer then said, or at least was reported to have said, that the ships were as well manned as in wartime. The next morning, when he (Sir Charles Napier) went to the United Service Club, he was at once surrounded by about twenty officers who asked him if it were possible that Sir George Cockburn had said, that ships were as well manned as they used to be. He answered that he believed it was, and they expressed their surprise at such a statement. The Gallant Officer further stated that be had mustered the ships and found them well manned. His (Sir 9. Napier's) opinion was, that the eight sail of the line now in commission were very badly manned. He was in Portsmouth a few days ago, and asked many inferior officers there (whose names he would not mention, because it would probably be inju rious to them) what there opinions were as to the state of the navy, and the general opinion was, that the ships were extremely ill-manned. He could not conceive why these men would say so, if it were not the case, and it also seemed strange that the Gallant Officer opposite should express himself with confidence in a directly opposite manner. This would be very puzzling, was it not very well known, that the Admiralty was not the place which truth could reach. Officers looking out for employment were always ready to put that construction upon the state of the navy which they thought would please the Board. He did net blame the Admiralty for not manning the ships. It was not their fault—they were placed there to do the best they could—the fault lay with the Government. When the present Government came into power, they found 26 sail of the line in commission, most qiwhich had been at sea for a considerable time, and their crews in a good state of discipline ; but the Government re duced that number to five or six. The first year they reduced the fleet in the Mediterranean to twelve ; the next to eight ; and the third to one. When they were in difficulties, all they could produce was three sail of the line, and one of theSe had to go to South America. They had now a fleet of ten sail of the line, and he hoped they at least would be well manned and efficiently fitted out.—(Hear, hear.) The Gallant Officer expressed his surprise that they should get the men so quick. Why, what did he gall quick ? In January or December last the first ship was commissioned, and they were then in the middle of May, and eight sail of the line were not ready. Surely there must be some bungling here, wherever or however that bungling took place. Ships which had left Plymouth commissioned, were brought into Portsmouth, and taken into dock for examination, to have an inspection of their bottoms, at a cost of 500/. or •6001. to the country, and after being commissioned, they, were taken into dock again ! Why could not this inspection have taken place before they were commissioned ? He thought the Government were wrong in pursuing this economical course. If they wished to have a proper squadron they must not send the ships to sea with inferior crews. When such was the case officers became slovenly, and the men dissatis fied. Things could not be done with that instantaneous precision and dispatch so necessary on board a ship, nor, indeed, in a manner befitting the dignity of a British man-of-war. The men were incensed and disgusted with eternal work, and were much in the same condition as Sir Pulteney Malcolm spoke of, when he said, they were " all hands all day, and every body at nig'it."—(Hear, hear.) If they wished to make the naval service popular, they must give up all notions of this miserable economy. It was better to send but few skips to sea, but send those few properly manned. It was not the number of men which was so expensive, but the wear and tear of the ships. If the ships were fitted out on a more liberal scale, men would be obtained with more ease, and sailers would discharge their duty when they had but their own proper duty to perform, with a more hearty goodwill. The Hon. and Gallant Commodore then mentioned the defective man ning of the Albion, which, though a very large 9 )-gun ship, had only the same number of men as the Thua derer, of less capacity. He felt surprised that the Hon. and Gallant Baronet should tell his Hon. and Gallant Friend that seamen were as good as ever. It was im possible that such should be the case. Their seamen had be-n destroyed by the steam-vessels. They might have very good stokers, engineers, and cottlheavers now, but not sailors.—(Hear, hear.) They might find such men able to haul a mainsail, but were they the sort of men that would run up the top of the yards on a cold and stormy night ?—were they the sort of men to get ships out of a difficulty?—(Hear, hear.) Even the steam navy would be, in a short time, in a great mea sure superseded by railroads, by which would be per- formed what was now done in the coasting trade. The Hon. Gentlemen opposite might laugh, but steam had been a great blow to the training of seamen. Lord Lord PALMERSTON begged the_ attention of the House to a few observations on the slave trade. The other night he felt it his duty to put a few ques tions to the Right Hon Baronet, and he was sorry ti say that his replies were anything but satisfactory. He him self had reason to be dissatisfied with the annual returns not having been given in the present year at so early a period as they had been for some years past, and he must also say, that they were not of the same -useful and ex plicit character as formerly. The observations _of the Right Hon. Baronet only went to convey an opinion on the experience of the last three years, but from the re port on the slave trade it appeared the Government had been not only undoing all that had been accomplishes! by those who went before them, but had also, in some in stances, absolutely frustrated what they themselves had done. He stated this because it had reference to the rea sons which had induced the country to wish to see the slave-trade suppressed. The treaties with the several Powers had provided that they should prohibit themselves not only from - engaging in the slave-trade themselves, but that they should also submit to a mutual right of search. Their object was not only to prevent the slave-trade from being car ried on with those countries into which slaves were im ported, but also to hinder their transmission from the places whence they came. It was not to be expected that the countries which had carried on this trade could change their habits all at once. They could not expect that Spain, Portugal, and Brazil could all at once ac cede to the wishes of the other powers, however mach they might desire to do so. What was the state of things when the last Government came into power in 1835 ? These were the declarations of the several Congresses, from 1815 to 1822, of the wish to abolish this nefarious traffic, but these remained as de clarations only. No stipulations had been entered into to give power to the British cruisers to carry their com missions into effect.. The late Government bad entered, into treaties with no less than twelve Powers for the suppression of the slave-trade. The United States had entered into two general treaties, by which they bound themselves not to engage in the slave-trade, and under which they gave power to the vessels of other nations to suppress it in American bottoms. A treaty had been entered into with Sp a i n , w hi c h gave power to all vessels south of the equator. A similar treaty had also been entered into with Sweden. W.tb Algiers, Tripal;, Tunis, and also Madagascar, treaties hal been entered into for the release of all white Christian slaves. This was th e ease w h en t he present Govern ment had entered office. What further did the last Government do ? They contracted no less than eighteen treaties with different countries. With France they had formed peculiar engagements. They had entered into a special contract with Denmark. They had obtained an additional clause from Sardinia —from Spain— from Sweden—from the Netherlands —from Hanover— from Chili—from Venezuela—Buenos Ayres—Ureguay —Hayti—and also from Muskat. They were also mak ing arrangements with Bolivia, Texas, and Mexico ; but there was no power in these treaties to enforce their execution. A stipulation was necessary for that effect. But this was not the whole of their attention to this subject. They had entered into arrangements with the chiefs on the western coast of Africa, to prevent the de portation of slaves; and there were six treaties completed when the present Governinent came into power in 1841. They had also entered into arrangements with Cuba to obtain the release of British subjects who had been either kidnapped from Sierra Leone or legally sold in the market of that island. They had obtained engage ments from Spain and Brazil to g i ve liberty to the slaves called Emancipados, wile, although they were said to be set at liberty by the laws, were still retained in actual slavery. This is what the last Government had actually effected. They had accomplished the league with the five great Power§ of Europe to sup 7 press the slave trade, and had they remained in office they would also have obtained the ratification of France. If thb present Government had only used common diligence on their accesion to office, there would have been no time for those intrigues in the French Chambers which had occasioned the non ratification of that treaty. Ile had asked the Right Hon. Baronet, the other night, why he had not obtained the accession of Hanover, Belgium, and Greece, to that treaty ; and he would now ask him what reason could that ad the Hanover—which influence be given why those powers had not given in their adherence to the principle after the treaty had been signed by Austria, Prussia, end the was paramount to that of Austria, other Powers who had become parties to it ?—(Hear.) the England ? Ile (Lord Palmerston) He did not see the conclusiveness of the argument. Did ig p, fl ) : H er o s ii. B G ai F R r u e s n s p i n r u E s s u i a r p a e n , d thought that such an admission was no compliment to the egliltmlle:ganreescaye, three had not been addressed, in consequence of that deference to French influence. lie thought it was the duty of her Majesty's Government to have addressed themselves to every Power, whose assistance they could expect to obtain. He thought they ought to have made the invi tations, and left it to the three Powers to state their . reasons for declining thern--(Hear, hear.) Th e s il ent acquiescence of her Majesty's Government in the re fusal -of the French Minister to ratify the treaty which he himseK as Ambassador, had nego tiated, was no encourag ement to other Powers to Live us their co-operation. The French Minister stated in the Chambers that his refusal had met with no re monstrance from her Majesty's Government.—(lloo.) He would now come to the Ashburton treaty, which set aside the former treaty of Washington, whereby the American Government was bound to use the best en deavours to suppress the slave trade. Now he would ask, was it enough to send five ships to watch the whole line of the vast coast of Africa to prevent the prosecution of the slave trade under the American flag? —(gear, hear ). There was another stipulation in the treaty by which the two parties bound themselves to unite in remon strances with countries which allowed the slave-trade to - be carried on. But what had they done?—si hat did the Right Holiourable Baronet state to him (Lord Pal merston) the other night ? Why, that it had been de- TUE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY MORNING, MAI 17 1845. Mr. BANES objected to the vote. He had the au thority of Colonel Maberly in stating that not Ling could be more incorrect than the Post-office return which was laid on the table of the House. The return was as yet unexplained by the Government. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Honourable Gentleman called for an explana tion of the account with respect to the Post-office revenue. He could, however, satisfy the House that the return was not open to the objections of the Hon. Gentleman. When it was first presented to Parliament, and when he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) sat on the ether side of the House, he stated that the real revenue was very small, if they deducted the whole expense of collecting that revenue. After making that statement, he moved for a return not merely of what the Post-office produced, but also what were the charges necessarily incurred, in producing the revenue, which included the expense of the pack ages an d the delivery. The greater part of the Post-office revenues was borne in the naval account. It was thought better after that to conduct the packages in the King's ships, and consequently the charge which had been made against the revenues of the Post-office, became charged in the naval estimates, while the receipts remained in the Post-office. It was necessary to put en one side all that was paid for the conveyance, and on the other all that had been received by the Post-office. Mr. HAWES said a few words in explanation, and alluded to a deputation, which was received by Sir R. Peel, two years ago, when the Right Hon. Gentleman stated that the Post-office revenue did not amount to 500,000/ or 600,000/., but only to 110,0001, for the purpose of creating an unfavourable impression of the penny postage. Sir R. PEEL said that he was entirely misunder- stood, and that nothing was further from his mind than to show that the arrangement was a bad one, for he wished most cordially for its success. In answer to the deputation, he said that the net produce of the Post office did not amount to five or s►x hundred thousand pounds, for the purpose of removing an erroneous im pression which they laboured under, not ibr the purpose of making unfavourable contrasts. Mr. WILLIAMS said that the net amount, up to the sth of April, was 09,0001, and the charges for pack e t s amounted to 544,0001., leaving a net revenue of 155,0001 Mr. WARBURTON did not think that the Post office should be charged with the whole of the cost of con structing the packets, seeing that they had been built in a very expensive manner, in order that, upon an emer gency, they might be turned into war steamers. The CHANCELLOR of the EXOREQuER said that o the return which he had ma d e was not a-c.‘,mpara,- tivne.' Sir C. NAPIER, believed that so long as the Board of Admiralty was constituted as it now was, a great deal of money would be uselessly expended. He bad 1 a ways tided that a joint representation to the two Powers by Great Britain would look like dictation—(Hear, hear) — and theta had been thought better that the representa tion should be made separately lest the f. elings of the Brazilian and Spanish people should be hurt by the ap pearance of dictation. But it was not delicacy to Brazil or Spain that caused the deviation. The feelings of Narvaez might be hurt. The feelings of General Valdez might be hurt. But the value of the representation. would have depended upon what the Right Hon. Baronet called wounded feelings.—(Cheers.) Everybody who knew anything of diplomacy must know that representa tions made by two nations were of far greater force than separate representations.-,—(Hear, hear.) The joint re presentations would have been disagreeable to those Spaniards and Brazilians who were interested in carrying on a felonious trade in defiance of the laws of their own rations.—(Hear, hear.) Again, what had the Go vernment done with respect to the slavery of British subjects in Cuba and Surinam? The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that they could not in justice do any thing for the liberation of those persons, unless it were shown that they were British subjects born free. Happily, the actions of the Government had been better than their theory. In the very papers in which that slavish doctrine was expressed, he found that the libera tion of British subjects had been demanded and oh tained.—(Cheers.) (The Noble Lord then read an ex tract from the papers referred to, demanding the libera tion of British subjects detained in slavery at Cuba.) That document expressed the opinion which be had al ways maintained when in office. Now, with respectto the Cemmission which was to have been appointed— as to the importation of slaves into Cuba and Brazil contrary to the laws of those countrier - li7thougKi that, if there was any apprehension that retrospective law would have created confurion, the law might be made prospective. As to what was going on in the negotiation between the Commissioners appointed by France and this country, the general impression in the public mind was that it was intended to return to some of the measures proposed by the late Government, such as the destruction of the barracoons and the blockade of the coast. To both these measures the present Govern ment had expressed themselves hostile when out of office. He was pleased to hope that they had changed their views, for he believed that if these measures were adopted they would produce great and important results. He had heard also that the treaty of 1826, relating to mixed Commissions and the right of search, were at an end. He should be glad to hear from the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, that that was not the case. By that treaty Brazil had bound itself to allow its own subjects engaged in this traffic to be dealt with as pirates. fie held that by that treaty we had a right to exact from Brazil the suppression of the trade. The Government had proposed to send out to Rio Janeiro, for the pur pose of procuring a renewal of the commercial treaty, and if the object had been to prevent Brazil from Co operating with us for the suppression of the slave trade, a more ingenious course could not be taken. It was not required as a condition of the treaty that Brazil should fulfil her engagements for the suppression of the slave trade, but that slavery in Brazil should be modi fied—a demand as hopeless and inadmissible as to re quire the lauded gei.try of this country to come tbrwa , d of their free-will 'and abolish the corn-laws.—(Hear.) Here then we were supporting a great domestic monopoly, under the pretence that we could not admit Brazilian sugar unless slavery was modi fied in that territory ; and we abstained from a united remonstrance against the violation of solemn engage ments, when we did not hesitate to offend the most deeply rooted prejudices of the nation. He believed that attention to other matters had prevented her Majrsty's Government from giving a due attention to this subject. But he hoped they would give it greater attention, and that they .would show to other Governments a determi- nation to use all the means of political influenceand of physical coercion which Great Britain possessed, to put down the slave trade. He trusted that the papers would be laid upon the table of the House within a tsin period. Sir R. PEEL said, that with respect to the period at which the papers required by the Noble Lord would be laid on the table, he (Sir R. Peel) had a confident hope the Noble Lord would have an opportunity of referring to them. The Noble Lord had stated that the present Government were so much occupied with other business, that they could not give that degree of attention to the present subject which its importance deserved. He could assure the Noble Lord that the business of the Foreign office had not been in the slightest degree diminished, but he yet did hope that the slave trade papers would be presented in such a period as would meet with the approbation of the Noble Lord. The Government had been taxed with indifference on such an important question as this, but the Noble Lord would have an opportunity of looking over them, and in the event of his disapprobation, of bringing for ward a motion for the purpose of testing the opinion - of the House, as it respected the Government. The Noble Lord on this occasion, as on others, took the chance of passing a merited eulogium on himself. The Noble Lord had entered on a subject which he (Sir R. Peel) • felt considerable difficulty in referring to, He meant the question with respect to the treaty with France. The Go vernment, it was well known, had entered into a tr, at.y with Brazil, by which that Government was bound for fifteen years to contribute to the suppression of the slave trade. The Noble Lord had been rightly informed, that the Brazilian Government had dec'ared that con vention ended. But whether that convention Here ended or not, they were bound by another engagement to this country, which provided that no Brazilian should carry on the slave-trade in any manner e ha . ever. and made it capital for any native of the Brazils to carry on the slave-trade, holding that to be an act of piracy. The Noble Lord had said that the present Government were to be blamed for not having had the signature of France attached to theireaty of 1841. But the Noble Lord well knew that the three flags of Europe which had been made use of in carrying on the slave-trade were those of Belgium, llanover, and Greece, although no warrants had been granted by the respective Powers for using those flags in carrying on the slave-trade. The Noble Lord, in his reference to France. had said that the refusal of that country to ratify the treaty extended much beyond France. Again, with reference to what the Noble Lord called the capitulation of Wash ington, he (Sir R. Peel) would say that the people of the United States were of opinion that their country had granted a very great concession to the Government of . this country. He (Sir R. Peel) hoped, therefore, that this country would not take the character of that treaty solely from the representations of the Noble Lord. The treaty of Washington had provided that a joint representation should be made to other parties, and a conference had, in consequence, been entered into be tween Lord Aberdeen and Mr. Webster.—(Hear, hear.) He thought if the Noble Lord looked to the language the Government had used with respect to Brazil, he would at once admit that they had shown no desire to snare their feelings on the subject. There had been no disposition on the part of the Government or any of their acts to support the slave-trade, either in Spain or Brazil. Was it not, he would ask, apparent to every one that the Government had not the power to compel Spain to put an end to the slave-trade? He thought they, ought to compel the countries who had engagements with this country to put an end to the traffic, and by persuasion to endeavour to bring those countries to enter into an engagement to put an end to the slave trade. When the papers were laid on the table of the House it would be seen whether her Majesty's Govern ment were liable and deserving of . the insinuations that had been thrown out by the Noble Lord, and whether they had not done all they could to remedy the evil com plained of by the Noble Lord. He was sure they did not deserve the wholesale condemnation that had been cast upon them by the Noble Lord. Lord PALMERSTON said that he never meant to argue that the Government should violate the law of nations. What he meant to say was, that there were treaties, if properly carried into eflect, which would put an end to the slave trade-altogether. Mr. P. HOWARD deprecated any difference being made between any Foreign States. He hoped in the next session some measurres would be adopted by a hich the impolitic course that had hitherto been pursued would be avoided. The House then went into Committee, and upon The vote of 129,0922 for the salaries of Admiralty officers, been opposed to a civilian ruling the navy. The sur veyor of the navy and the storekeeper were responsible for their department, and yet they had a Lord of the Admiralty appointed over each of them. Dr. BOWRING did not think that the public accoants could be satisfactorily kept unless the departments of receipt and expenditure were svparated. CaptainPECHELL said he would wish to bringt , efore the House the case of the pursers of the navy, who were a class of very meritorious and deserving officers; and in doing so he only regretted that they had not entrusted their case to an Hon. Member calculated to do it justice. He held in his hand a memorial forlarded to the Admiralty by a meeting of the pursers on the 2d April, 1841, in which they stated their grievances, some of which were that many of these officers were from 31 to 36 years in the service, and were none of them under 60 years of age. He then read extracts from the report of the Admiralty Commissioners that had been appointed to in quire into the case of the pursers, by which it appeared that all the recommendations of the commission in favour of those officers were negatived or reduced by the Board of Admiralty. By those reductions and deduc tions it appeared that there was a sum equal to the amount of 4,8001. in the hands of the Admiralty to the credit of those officers, and he hoped the Board of Ad miralty would be prepared to divide this sum equaTly amongst the pursers.—(Hear, hear.) Sir G. COCKBURN said these pensioner were first put upon half-pay in 1814, and in 1842 he believed there were about 932 of them; 100 of them received 55., 200 45., and 672, 3s. In 1834, the third-class petitioned the Board of Admiralty to reduce the first-class from 9ths to 10ths, and in 1834, by the consent of the first-claw, this arrangement was carded into effect ; and the third-class had an addition made to their pay. Shortly afterwards the Naval and Military Commission recommended that 50 of them should be allowed a retirement pension of ss. The Treasury acceded to the proposition of the Naval Commission, that there should be 70 at 75.,. 100 at 65., and the rest, 350, at 35., thus proposing an increase of is. 6d. a-day. The number now on the list was 4,000. Captain PECHELL hoped that the case of the pur sers who had had 9,000/. taken from their -pr , fits last year, and from whom the Chancellor of the Exchequer received 4,8841. annually, would be reconsidered by the Government. After a few words from Admiral MINIMS, Sir C. NAPIER said, much anxiety was expressed en the subject, and he was anxious to know when the decision of the Government would be made known. Sir G. COCKBURN said, he could not say, as they had not yet come to a decision. The vote was then agreed to. A vote of 11,6001. NI as then proposed to the Seaman's Register:office.__ Sir C. NAPIER objected to the payment of the bounty of 101. to seamen newly enlisted. -.Seamen were in the habit of receiving 101., but, in the event of a proclama tion of war, the bounty was doubled. Now, no war might take place, yet they were bound to pay this gratuity, which entailed great expense on the coun try, and which, he thought, might be dispensed with without injury to the service. Mr. COLLETT was not satisfied with the explanation of the Honourable Gentleman. The charge was a very large one. Mr. CORRY said the expense was owing to the fact, that it was the first year the Bill for Registering Sea men had come into operation. Captain PECHELL said that the pursers who for merly received an eighth now received only a tenth, by which the Treasury had effected a saving of 4,0001. Should not this sum be refunded to the pursers, and their salary be increased ? Sir ROBERT PEEL said that it was one of the most unenviable duties of his office to be obliged to resist the claims of particular classes of persons in the army, the navy, and the ordnance. He could not agree with the Hon. and Gallant Officer, and must oppose his views, as if realised they would form a most dangerous precedent. .After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the Ix- CHEQUER and Captain PECHELL in reply, the vo t e was agree) to. — On the proposition of 39,545/. for the salaries of the scientific department of the navy, a conversation ensued between Sir C. Napier, Captain Pechell, and Sir G. Cockburn, respecting the salaries of the hydrogra pliers, and the want of accommodation for the Greenwich pensioners when they came up to be examined, during which Sir G. Cockburn stated that he was sensible of this want, and an intimation was given that some provision should be made to shelter them from the weather. •The sum of 231,0474 was proposed for the expense of naval officers at home. After some observations from Sir George Cockburn, Captain Nebel), Sir Charles Napier, and Mr. Hawes, the vote was agreed to. -A vote was also agreed to of 23,019/. for captains abroad, and 41,0001. for the naval department. 22,9512 was then vcrted fur the victualling department abroad. The House then resumed, and the Chairman obtained leave to sit again on Monday next. The Banking (Scotland) Bill then went through Com mittee, and the other orders of the day having ht en disposed of, the House adjourned at One o'clock. PARLIAMENTARY MV ISIONS. (From tae Votes and Proceedings of the House of Conunoms.) THUR*DAY, MAY 15. BIRMINGHAM AND cLorclisTEr: RAILWAY MOINE HAMPTON LINE) MIA Motion made, and Question proposed,• " That the Bill be RCM read a second time :"—Ainendment proposed, to leave out the wort; " now," and at the end of the Question to add the words " upon thh day six months:"—Question put, " That the word ' now' stand part of the'Question." The Rouse divided : MAJORITY—AYES, 41. ♦ntrobus, Edmund Ellis,Wynn Mitchell, T. A. italue, Walter Entwisle, William Newry, Viscount Bannerman, A. FeWen, William Osborne, Ralph Barclay, David Forman, T. S. Pendarves, E. W. Caring, F. T. Forster, Matthew Pulsford, Robert Brothorton, J. Fuller, A. E. Staunton, Sir G. Christie, W. D. Green*, Thomas Trench, Sir F. W. Colborne, W. It. Basile, Archibald Turm.r, Edmund Collins, William Hatton, Captain Wakley, T. Collett, John Ilawes, Benjamin Walker, Richard Copeland, Alderman James, William Yorke, 11. R. Craig, W. G. Labouchere, Henry Dounistoun, John Lowther, Sir J. 11. TELLERS. IC Duncan, George M`Taggart, SirJ. Spooner, Richard Duncombe, T. Mitcaltio, Henry Bowring, Dr. MINORITY—NOES, 22. Inglis, Sir R. 11. Stanley, Ed ward Jones, Cu r tain Wcutyss, Captain Lygon, GsnOral Winnington, Sir T. Mahon, Viscount Wrightson, W. B. Mordaunt, Sir J. O'Brian, A. S. :TELLERS. I'raed, W. T. Polliagton, Viscount Itolleston, Colonel Pa kington,J. Ruslibrooke, Col. eland, T. D. Arbuthnott, H. Baldwin, Barry Buck, L. W. Egerton, W. T. Eeteourt, T. G. B. Fitzroy, Henry Forbes, William Hallyburton, Lord PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS. THURSDAY MAY 15. , The following Bills were read a second time, and committed, and referred to the Committee of Selection : • Whitehayen and Furness Railway. London and Croydon Railway Enlargement. London and Croydon Railway (Chatham and Gravesend). London aid CiOydon Railway (Maidstone, Ashford. and Tonbridge). London and Croydon Railway (Orpington Branch). London and Croydon Railway (Chatham to Chilham). Great Western Railway (Ireland) ( Dublin to Mallingar and Athlone). Birmingham and Gloucester Railway (Wolverhampton Line). The following Bills were reported, and the report referrk to the Select Committee on Standing Orders:— Epping Railway (No. 2). Eastern Counties Railway (Cambridge and Bury St. Ed mund's Extension). The Preston and Wyre Railway Branches Bill,—Petition for additional provision ; referred t o th e S e l ect C omm i ttee on Petitions for Ir'rivate Bills. _ICES GIVEN AT THE PRIVATE BILL OFFICE. Eastern Union and Norwich Railway (No. 2),—Select Committee on project, Mo n d a y, M ay 26, at half after twelve. Scottish Central Railway,—Further consideration of re port, Tuesday, May 20. Bolton and Leigh, Kenyon and Leigh Junction, North Union, Liverpool and Manchester, and Grand Junctioa Rail way Companies Amalgamation,—Committee on petition, Monday, May 26. North British Railway,—Committee on petition, for addi tional provision, Tuesday, May 20. Chester and Holyhead Railway (No. 2) (Mold Branch and Purchase of Chester and Birmingham Railway),—Re port, Monday, May 19. Midland ailways (Nottingham to Lincoln),—Report, MOnday, May 19. Wells and Thetford Railway,—Select Committee on pro ject, Monday, May 26, at half after twelve. Preston and Wyre Railway,—Committee on petition, for additional provision, Tuesday, May 20. Birmingham and Gloucester Railway (Gloucester Exten sions, Stoke Branch, and Midland Railways Junction), — Second reading, Monday ' May 19. Londonderry and Coleraine Railway,—Second reading, Monday, May 19. Lynn and Ely Railway,—Farther consideration of report. Tuesday, May 20. Eastern Counties Railway (Ely and Whitt.lesea Davis • tion,—Further consideration of report, Tuesday, May 20. Belfast and Ballymena Railway,—Further consideration of report, Tuesday, biay 20. NOT: ERRATUM.—In our report of the Court of Chan cery in yesterday's paper, the case, " Cropkill v. Cam bridge," should have been printed "Cresskill v. Cambridge.* ENDOWMENT OF MAYNOOTIC—Thursday a meet ing of the parishioners of St. Clement Danes was held in the vestry-room, Strand, Mr. Wilkinson, churchwarden, in the chair, to consider the propriety of petitioning against the grant to Maynooth. Mr. Adey moved a resolution condem natory of the proposed grant to Maynooth ; which was se conded by Mr. Benning, a Quaker. A parishioner, in an energetic speech, regretted that such an uncharitable resolu tion should be proposed in a parish where so many Catholics dwelt. Two other gentlemen followed on the same side. After which Mr. Adey replied. The-motion was then put and upon a show of hands there appeared 15 for, and 21 against it.—(Cheers) Thanks were voted to the chairman. TERBOROUGH RAILW AY FROM and o t p h E e N e e G t i n o g p broke u p p. E arsworcrit TO Sinsorr.—The Directors of the L on d on and Birmingham Railway h ave decided to open the new line from Blisworth to Sibson, near Wansfordr (forty-one mil es ), o fo n r IS t Lo o n tdraoyn,sthe f 2 t d h t e 'f t j ra u i n n e s, n b e u x th e ti de e la w y er o k f a sar f e ew da ailr 7 d i ) ; indispensable, in order to allow the authorities of the Post office time to arrange anew time bill for the H u ll an d be Leeds mails, whi c h will r conveyeditis also , ex hm by this route on their a way ntt Leeds, from which toS leafd: ii places con, it a Ne p m ee •ar t k e4 Dthonerce will aster be a mid-dav mail into London when the arrangements are completed. An elopement took place from the neighbourhood of Wolviston, near Stockton, on Monday week. The parties were a knight of the cleaver and a young damsel who, on her last birthday, only numbered fourteen years, but who is reported to be worth "some thousands." When their flight was discovered, pursuit was madeafter them in a post-chaise But love flies now on the•wings of steam; and the loving fugitives had been linked together by the son of Vulcan, at Gretna-green. lon g before their pursuers had any chance of overtaking them. It is said that the young lady is the third member of the same family that has sought connubial bliss in the same manner.— Tyneirercur.y. RAILWAY COMMITTEES. (VESTERDAY.) Group F. The Committee re-assembled at twelve oclodi this day, the Right Hon. F. Shaw in the chair, and proceeded with the inquiry into THE LONDON, WORCESTER, AND SOI7TH STA.F -_ _ FORDSIIIRE RAILWAY Mr. P. Clarke examined by Mr. llons:—Has been in the service of the Midland Railway Company. Woe super• intendent of the general traffic on the Hue. The amount of goods traffic taken on part of that line was 20,000 tons per year. It has lat e ly amounted to 50,000 ton s p er year. 'This quantity patsea up to Birming ham from the Midland line and the Grand Junetion. The change of gauge at Gloucester had greatly diminished the traffic. The delay has been so great that the canal took the greatest part of the goods traffic. There is canting from the Gloucester line 10,000 tons of salt per annum.- 7,`200 were brought by the narrow gauge. Bringing up the broad gauge to * Rugby will greatly diminish the coal traffic on the Midland line. The tratiie in goods must be lost to the railway on the change of guage, inasmuch the waggons to heed parts would reach their journey's end by the time the transhipment, could take place. The tranship ment should take place where the break of gauge occurred. - The Witnese was not cross-examined. Mr. Wm. Hanson, examined by Mr. Hone—ls Manager 0 traffic on the Eastern Counties Railway. That line proceeds to Colchester 51 miles, and to Bishop ".torttisrd 32 miles. and further on, making in the whole 83 There had been a change of. gauge, which cost the Company 50 -WOL This change of gauge was occasioned in consequence of coming in contact with other lines—the Yarmouth and Norwich and the Northern and Peterborough —these lines being on the narrow gauge. The Eastern Cennties anticipated the great . delay which would arise, and consequently changed their lice from the broad in the narrow gangs. Some mechanical contrivance had been - suggested to remedy the inconvenience which would arise, het the Company thought, it better to alter the gauge at once. The larger carriages for traffic were most inconvenient . for short stations, as more hands were required to shift the goods. This transhipment took place more especially at short stations, in conse quence of there being goods in the carriages destined for other parts of the line. His objection to the large trucks sm . ; on commercial grounds; they occasioned great delay and considerable expense without any advantage. The Eastern Counties line travelled thirty-two miles •in a time varri inerom thirty-seven to forty-one or forty-two minutes. This speZal commenced within. the last three wee k s . an d i t was perfectly safe and convenient to passengers. The former rate was twenty-five miles, in the same time. For the last_ three years gentlemen going to the races were taken at the higher speed, and they were well satisfied with the mode ci' conveyance and the safety of their lives —(Great laughter.) From this increased rate of speed the Company had no ap prehension of danger; in point of steadineas, the narrow gauge was as safe as the broad gouge lines. - Cross-examined by Mr. COCKBURN—The speed just men tioned was the same on the North Eastern. There were two trains running daily at that rate of speed. The two trains we're independent of the mail trains. The first left at a quarter past nine, and the other in the evening. The time this rate of speed actually commenced for general passenger traffic was on the Ist of May inst. Attached to that train are the luggage-trucks, and a horse-box, and it was intended to run during the year. The junction with the other lines was effected through - the points, and the carriages which stop at that place were shifted into the sidings. The traffic was very large in hay, wool, malt, and flour. It was carried on four-wheel waggons ; all the six-wheel waggons on. the line were about to be done away with, inasmuch as the smaller and lighter carriages answered best. Mr. George Hudson, chairman of the Midland Coun ties Company, examined by Mr. - Ansma—The Mid land Railway to Derby, Birmingham, Rngby, and other places will eaahlish a communication with the. whole north of England and Scotland, now that the Hull and Selby line is leased to the Midland Company. • Was of opinion that the identity-of gauge should loa kept up on the present line, It' by experience he found the broad gauge necessary to the advantage of the public, lie would recom mend it ; and on the other hand, if the traders approved of the • narrow gauge, would favour its adoption. Thought the narrow gauge would give as much convenience to the public as the broad one. In resnect• of speed, AS much could be accomplished by the - narrow as the broad gauge, with as much safety and convenience to the public ; meant on the North Midland line More parti cularly. On the 2d of- September last, on the York line they took 960 tons of manufactured goods on two trait* and they had subsequently taken 95 waggons with one en gine, there being about four tons of goods in each waggon, the latter being three tons each in weight, making a total of 665 t ons to -one train. Took down about thirty-four carriages with one engine for about ten miles, at which part of the line there are thirty tieing running daily. It was done with the greatest safety. The receipts of the North Midland last ve.ar were 600,600/, or very near that s u m, and it might . be * set down at that per annum. Where an additional engine was quisite to get the goods train down in tints no company could be so foolish as to object to put it on, -for • the public paid in return by the increased traffic. By the CietnimAN—The cost of an additional engine wag not more than 300/. per year to any ct mpany. and it was an item too small to prevent them adopting the extra power in cases of necessity. By Mr. 11°m—ft was to the interest of the companies generally to supply an extra train in an emergenc e , the Midland Railway for ten mil es o f t h e line. 'NorinantOn to Leeds, there were sent daily 5,000 tons of goods, and that quantity could be doubled with the greatest safety. Had not the leastdoubt the present trailers were in favour of the narrow gauge, and the traffic would he greater on that than on the broad gauge. At Kest lit they ran down In to I.Uod o r t to York in seven hours and a half, and to Newcastle in ter. hours, and a half, which is thr e e h un d r . s l mike. The latter could - Ile done in nine hours with great safety. They were the first to introduce two large engines on the line, which would - run away with twelve carriages in no time.—(Laughter.) A transhipment of gocds at any place was a great inconvenience. With refemnce to. Bristol the transhipment of goods would be of less conseqUence there than at Birmingham, inasmuch as there would less good s to tranship at B r i s t o l . Mr. Hudson was briefly cross-examined ley Mr. COCK. nuns, but nothing of sny interest was elicited. • Mr. James I3hiaidd, of Swansea, Vice-Chairman of the W e l s h midland Bailway, gave evidence in .- fa Your of the narrow gauge. Mr. 3lutitz, M.P., examined by Mr ArSTlN—AttentW a meeting held at Birmingham in reference to a cenitinnation of one gauge front Bristol to Birmingham. Was largely con nected with merchandise at Birm'nghatn. The merc h ants at that place were greatly interested in haying an unbroken gauge, but they did not "are which gauge was adopted. Com. petition was very good at present, I.mt not where three rail ways competed. It could he better managed lt,y an Act of Parliament.. . . Mr. -Arserm informed the Committee that Mr. Stephen'. son, their engineer, was under examination in another room. and he trusted they would adjourn till Monday. The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock on Monday. Group V. NEWARK AND SHEFFIELD LINE. The Committee, consisting of the O'Conor Don (Chair man), Mr. Hope Johnston, Mr. J. A. S. Davies, Sir Denham. Xorreys, and Sir John Rae Reid. re-assembled this morning.. to hear further traffic evidence. Mr. Johnstone, draper, in Newark, was called, and stated that the present defective mode of communication between Manchester, Barnsley, lludderfield, Re., entailed the greatest disadvantage on the drapers of that town. Ile was sure that the projected railway had received the sanction of the inha tants of Newark. - Richardson, clerk to Giltstars hotel and coach-office, gave the number of coaches that left Newark daily, to the places on the line of railway. He was sure the passengers would, on the compl e ti on of the railway, go by it. Ni', Probed, a butcher in Newark, bought beasts in the districts around Newark, which he chiefly sent to the Rother ham market. The railway would les'sen his expenses at least one-half, besides preventing the great deterioration of his cattle consequent on the fatigues of a three days' journey. - Richard Greenall. thread manufacturer at Mansfield, said that at present he suffered great loss from the uncertainty of the ccmmuuication with Lancashire. The railway would remedy that eyi!. Henry Morris, land-agent and maltter in the town of Mansfield, corroborated the last witness's evidence. Charles Medley, Mansfield, the owner of quarries *hies supplied the stone for the New Houses of Parliament, Trafal gar-square sod several public, monuments, produced s p ec i men . ' of the several qualities. Ihe expense of carriage. .'vu at present 16s. 6d. per ton, and the railway would carry for 4s. 4cl. A great many witnesses fron Nv - i .ho M e a a n e ste e l x d p ,2 re t s k se l d th l e as ot a li p et towns . pr ati i o l l ' i t o h f e tl i i i e ne p , rOlercet,caanil(eld;tated that its formation would be of incalculable advantage to the district. The Committee adjourned till Monday. Group I)I►. THE CALEDONIAN; ANI) THE' ([.ASG(►II', bUM• FRIES, AND CARLISLE RAILWAYS. The adjourned Committee re-assembled this morning at in vestigation of usual hour, and proceeded with the further of the schemes before them. Mr. TALDOT resumed his examination of witnesses, by calling Mr. Landell, mining engineer at 3 lusselborough. He habit V r v ai iti r ; ef min managing eralelds, e a t i l l t d f t o i rt Lt n e lan co n a e l :- practical experience ht. , s i t n a c te e d th l e te yea ha r d lB4 b t er ane e i n l :_a a g s e i ( n l tgheenceoranlsltya pootir:tis%n-i‘b?renklsohnaiggs i tt n oi g letni t 'l o e. c S oln i i r tel J i was t o i n n to Hope, ieti a oe n d lei tr xa o ta c ri t e l ee ta r t i t anhed oth er Scotland.ecgoorn(Tsilpdaednayb which y would be intersected 0 ! ) li r le c etr e ha s Nel, ad by the railway. lie was well acquainted with those dis tricts, and in official capacity bad inspected thein se veral times. He also knew the locality of the' stations an the railway to which it was intended to bring coals alit other produce. The making of the railway Would tend to open up many coal-grounds which at present 'are not worked, owing to the expense of carriage for bringing the coalit to a profitable market. - The principal spot on the line where lime strata were met with was at Freshwater, and the aggregate thickness of it was 55 feet. Sand -stone and clay iron stone were also met with there in considerable quantities. The neighbourhood of Poole. and Sistnahago abounded in various qualities • of coal, and at the present time six workable seams existed in that district. The produce from these places would fur the most part be transmitted to Edinburzh to be disposed of, if a line of railway existed. The expense of putting the coals on the line would amount to about 4s. 6d. per ton. The price of coal at present in Edinburgh was V. Is. per ton. and was still rising. This was a very high price to pay for coal in Scotland, but it - the railway were made, the expense would be considerably reduced, and there would result a better regulated supply. The witness then west minutely into the details of the quantity and quality Of minerals to be obtained generally along the line. The gro4 quantity of lime expected to be conveyed was .66,000 tons. which would yield an income of 5,136/. per annum. The. amount of coal would lie 236,000 tons, and the annual revenue from this item would be 30,0001. The principal iron works nearest the line were situated at CastleLill ; the proprietors of these works had been communicated with. and they had stated they would send their iron to Edinburgh by the Caledonian Railway, in preference to any of the e x s in g modes of conveyance. The. manufactured ir , o t n e f ro m Garthsherrie would be transmitted by the by e 1 ,brraaanocfh. opinion, Landollthat the constructionconcluded l li ne s tati n ga would lie of ref the, pr o posed and other considerably facilitate the conve): ambled the last witness at great Sir T. ' Phillips cr°s6-e x amined in his evidence re*ulted. which it ex pe tv e An throngh all the districts length, lint no material A „Hi m w as cross-examined by Air. AsttinEws—gr. a SoliC Mr. TALBOT called Mr. 11 amson, mining engineer, w h o said he had been engaged for thirty-five years in his pro- fessional capacity by Lord Wemyss, 'Lord 1 7 .1 gin, and othere, and could corroborate in every particular all that had