The Sun. — London, England, 1845-05-27 00:00:00

r- . _______,_. ......- proposed in 1840. Yet still it would be a fixed duty. In 1840 proposed a fixed duty of Bs. per quarter. That is more than I would now propose. I would prefer at present 45., 55., as te Per'erbe6st.r uarte r , as preferable to what I then proposed, and in th e present state of affairs, th a n a total repeal of the whole dety as some oth• r parties proposed. Another pro- Position is to impo se a sliding duty of 10s. or Bs. gradually goin g Position down to a shilling. Now in comp ar i ng th ese t wo pro s my opinion isdecidedly its favour of a fixed duty, because I consider a sliding scale necessarily entails a change If tyhe carrnourat of duty and of price every . year —( Hear, hear. ) r A .__t v w a e asked whether I consider it a desirable to have any ;at i , v,lai n corn at all i should say, as an from b raet P rinci p le ' No; ttlat ellltsn,:reautyhe iejury likely to accrue o the sudden ;with long. established custom, however pernic i i t ou as s may have been. It may be said, " If you regard an evil, why will you not Consent - to its . removal?" But thus ie i r e 1., - t gut also be inquired respecting a man who, during a pro ;:-fatted life, has bn accustomed to stimulating diet ; no phy • !iatnotl°uld advise an immediate change of diet, or prescribe lis abstinence from the reeimen, however deleterious. le hist light that I regard the present restrictions imposed On ,T e rn : and yet that there will come a time, as has already i t'll --''' 'or wool, when a total abrogation of duty will be Lund -1-:lievitabie and accorded 1 for one entertain no doubt ni le, though I look upo ' n such . a course at the present time as pretnattir e, and its success equivocal, I think I do but consult a t h r e best interests of the country in proposing that chie said My resolutions —.‘ That this House will take the e t a t o d tv . e a ws into cOnsideration, with a view to such h en , e es and deliberate arrangement as may be meet 1 egei al to all classes of her Majesty's subjects." now arrive at the next question vaiieh I consider materially iste e l,'ng the condition of the labouring classes of this country, u _ • m e, In the words of my motion, I assert "that the freedom of 14st rY would be promoted bya careful revision of the law 0 ,, i•o.,:hial settlement which now prevails in England and Wales to Zleg the war the system whereby the labourer was assistedui eiatiisipoverty, or remunerated for hie work, was most per ix atr 2 as the war continued the price of corn rose, and the Pursued was to distribute the . effects of the high price tilovaer. the tin e ene family, instead of increasing the d wages, and and for. In ih,zmore lur was employed than there was em . al stem that e 'Nem was altered, and it has been said that the a tt % eras injurious , but I w ' ill avow my opinion, that if thatwould 44 1 :i h ad been continued, the labourers of England _ w et:mi l t i t pai reen reduced to pauperism, while the foccd and them c u r Y charity of the poor -rate would have scarce,Y gui d en r the PreseeTeans 0 f subsistence, instead of ' a as the un ewhole holue'"_, a 3 stern, charity being 9 t 4 Plov i e n - s Pe of . wages under t g h i e ven sup t e n rintendence of hav e 2_ r • I will again all to an authority from which I hv u r gie re than once quoted to-night. In a report drawn up g e . " • Tffnell, respectin the working of the poor-law h i t tthiiioat,e,...vwo,uittliit vuofhwitah.,l:: was long officially connected, 1 find t the paid in that neighbourhood, during Wes netts Preceding the establishment of the ion If lull b ee , 'h, and for the two years succeed.ng, 810 . 1. 1 such a tal e , lz i te wholesome effect of the poor-laws, is . it no t , laboererisrePresentation to hold up that law as injurious c, i 2 11._ (Re ar, i t while in reality nothing could be mere bene c s ia siu . ,, that l aw ea r.) It is now a little more than teeacrhildren eth° ree;e a' .e amended, came into operation. . The em ~ o y.. inent have "'en in a state requiring no immediate I taeat e l y e now grovvn up —they seek for labour, t i ipiteir-iii,lll.4ot,,aurit.i.fiucial state of labour which risecharact . f our ago, still inflicts its disas -0;o: col: 18 , 4 4 0 ' " c L e i e ta u a few years grctalture, our manufactures, and l e:h i :v il e r a raade alterations, but it is not suffi netoese4thtniZlii'ci•berere:iteeed p , Your poor laws, it is not suffic ent that you Measures must e r inciplesof that law; temporary and alleviating ties o f 41 41 -- we It • -ougOt must be adopted, to meet the exig,en (lentleroaPerabundant la:lnsur.—( Hear. ) The Right H__m c . Partaleat rihsPPosite, the Secretary of State for the Home p - th e pr '• 55 undertaken to introduce a measure, admitting tbknsfe°,Peitsilstirlthat it was a hardship that a man could not at, whil e ' , Jour to a locality where demand was greater aye ),,ar .'"eriting to this, he does not agree or propose that t. (Flea what 3 rtantlioltrious employment should give a settlement , r, hear.) be More rational, more equitable, more just ? Woreio And what is the working, or the effect of the rie s fro g_of the present law of settlement ? A young map mare sta te ~L_Q the agricaural districts, he settles as an artizan _ s sleit,c,tuatrivafactering town, gives the district the benefit o h i tome stui , fter ten or twelve years of thriving industry, by Z irie "en panic in trade,he is deprived of work—he seeks ile, Arnsoloif iernpora.ry susistnce from the Union, but is tat e d n , ust go back to the town whence you originally Abet ass seek that relief we cannot afford you her . (I°4 6t! uch Ystern is fraught with evils no one can surely r e 'lnel ev re l'etd Jet,"°D.---Hear, hear. e ,fer s th at 'IN RUSSELL—The Hon. Member for Brecon lewd expression. He proposes that one year's residence . iod re a settement.; 1, however, do not think that a lels 'litls 44 five years be advisable to establish as aru e. far t re gard to lesser periods of two or one years, if a relief_ , ejrilln ed Po fo a r ry . votress were required, it might be beneficially I° 4 r -• . a rnonths, even should not tip applicant . be l. o . f . qehtiti.ioence in the town, because a great hardship I c ndd en i y c e p saled artisan, on a poor man engaged . as an ar N4illiwnter but temporarily distressed, being sent back to , eet place of residence, where, losing all employment or eg all eniPloyment he becomes a pauper, and eventually whet, Moral elevation of character ceases for ever to be, e her _ i oder due care he might still have ' remained—a good and heulnlenaber of societ (Hear, hear.) I now pass to the Plku oe tane ll of eny series of resolutions—" That a systematic celp.r colonisation would partly relieve those districts of the t kiet t iy. where the deficiency of employment has been 1443 t° th 4ur ieus to the labourers in huebandry." In adverting question, difficult and delicate as I admit : it to be, %e h , b lade my allusion cautiouely, because I conceive thate noly b e °' emigration too extensive , or compulsory, would. not ,that a "advni_sable, but dangerous. Nevertheiess I consider kik. ° Qunt --, e ta t art' system, carried out with ca t u r tion an a d nd th b e en e e m 7: IN . Ibe made beneficial to the country N th r I have been told by se that the effeet 'Resented th tof Kent in this Hou , i. _ OO. t i,_ i tt hi „ .. e coun y Mr. Hedges, who for many °d ill ... of tees Parish, of voluntary emigration, has been p . , happiness to wastl Z ec i : h e k_ s gN' e atest advantage t c o ul t u te ie d s ist u r f ict, and by lute _ t; Z . rt 6 1 , 4 7 0 4 r ived it. The price for labour in Canada h embraced it. 14 0 g• 4 4 4 h bitants speak the e ae , cite ~ Y, and in est Canada 83. a . nd upwards. Wen e rni -g e 1 this go to a r c ountry whose in a s ee ltri 4 ti ll h ' u tl . a gea n d are characterised by the same habits, the b„: e qui I r s Positively advantageous . to them. ; But great care t h L'• std In the safe working of this system for you must --"ltr,ao:.ti.ts emi grants men who are unable to bear extreme must )ou t - ‘oe Privations to which they are too often subject ; nor Itl4rtie hi t % s tem be that of indiscriminate assimilation between yintshi,L,lrtf:_unkilown. They should go out, not only a a n c- I 0,1,1?" gle e rlected with each other. In ec t e he a arm off ,•roev ,4"ae officers who choose to 1 theyll. gratds and '64 certain favourable terms. Let your eau- Thent, a n d i n °f l i t under th The y w i ll a s een a tr ansa 9 5 0 as head, and by that arrange- Produce i ceept y a llr ho d send you their etion all a partiesevi I be the gainers. e r i tieh 1 0 returo,__(Hree Manufactures, an next net shall advert • now enter ear, heir.) The 9uestion w t i o l is, the important one of education. I i eo vas a t si i , n e ter ests,a a ri t d ie fFa e l . into a subject connected with such educ:tiea: That h eate n •° - the peo demands such anxious and maderotirnactthede a great advance has been edit ain a daub.. Preyurig these last few years : one can ta i n a to ta ct i t ; ious te that it was considered that ,Whatsart_general and useful, but an notinquiry sh e _. reli g i ous ", proved it nominal, and to the in,livaracter a n d i instruction which would : tend elevate i e ui a a late re mprove the social condition of the people. I o a uti ; d e u fe f r tehrieee toPtohretit?f tape British and Foreign School Society, : gaol returns, that in some counties one ; I Y fuse • P°Pidation was unable to, read • in Devon, out of 6 and jecould either read or %lite, in denbighshi i re ss one N -h u a w lf : Si r t i,' e ther count . either the population was even ie. .. 41;1 i."e are eta , If ' °tit it e _ eillents made in regard to counties in Eng it te to bead,reaY be said that although these prisoners are un- Cli_lnay _yet religious instruction has been given to tham. fr om :l e i:" that they have received such oral uommunita knit', fr o g Y ri len in the gaols, and other ministers of the zittlis..4eombeersitanlnldrs.itekarittles and fr *g , 1b rs that they cannot be o ' f i gno o r m an n c e e t i - Ind ° , I ' must confe . ss that I reli Prevaieu,`":(4e, among whom reading and writing may h a ten t s and ‘ ln 3he r t who, if such pains were taken to teach ih e E t i d 0 b e a far fral truths, might, in point of _ learning, a find , i ° ese, Was th ein u nins , ructed people. What, I (m y , t Pe coin the sarn e ease in Sussex. some short time a,, . hi es i„ . e return 1 have already quoted, that out of 171 . fee e in ti e, i l , ii jorddluid not know the Saviour's name; 24 knew his th ai tl ed a r , • more l and only 6 out of the whole number had It!..e r , vv. _ y instruction. Some indeed of them had been, by th2vtat: ,acknowledgment, at places of worship, but when . ro4W, si r n uid all was darkness and confusion to their minds. eeli,b'eillgcloufsay, that when you take measures to promote krti 1 It lY rest', :tne people _where you take measures , 0 _ to re itistaetoes riecessaire_tio,n which may press upon the introduction 1 rs, ~,‘... ~ ,Y for food -4 say that as Christians„and as le. tliZatsc e. "`;., should not shut your eyes to this gross state of t o e ar e e 4.10 not forget that while, in this month of May, 41 %Aside,. xcellent and pious men ' meeting day after day, the „ i l i e s r ; °l 2 l Bums they shall distribute in China, t haCoti or e ' Sea Islands, and in A frica, for t t u l in sh e „ of the Christian faith--do not, I repeat, forgc u 44, 4 nd, a "tY of Sussex, and in every other county i Ithi r erizeitwiir.e.tached number of persons, who have felt the lash e d ou l : Ch r i sti : I w, are existing in total ignorance of every duty p hi u f that t j' s o uglat to perform. Sir, I cannot entertain d k e l ut eril ; / "e House will wish to pass measures to amen tin Wouideirot entertain a doubt that the present Govern ,lt'cti g thi s i e fe see measures passed, with the view of cor jeeo! ih.'arraing evil. True, we are here met by the ob- eo h ° Nies, atosti9l measures may jar with certain sectarian ' 14 4 4 46 e interfere with l'g . n and that you cannot Ne s " aria • • re " ' the religious 'the ta tad r . , In disregard of Yo h e of e .,. ) gnts of conscience, passgeneral a" dkiecto inak2lncation.—(Hear.) But this you can t.... Pie,' and Lhasa grant to those who apply for it for that peg.. thtie plant's dean Promote and assist to educate the li: h.. s tye e toout Or , en try ; anoth pother teach t e e r a s ch to er s s c , ho a o n l d s s th u r t o u u ed.. s ., te e b rnaii se • eis to endow ..lith,ssoo se t ramaries. And here I must call the attention - "d - 'e ke n ° what is the present situation of schoolmasters. t heiZ e illa r CePend much— the important religious education lite sre r e nowledge of thepeople of this country, and yet lie a l° of these me who remain satisfied with their sta nolittietris ihe -r fa e catTtio*.uso to n returnto the situation of teachers. k: th : t er lod th fi n mant would remain a have e olmaster for a understood ) 4 ' 1 4 . / i ' t: the case" wjl7 r r s' egard to the National Si " and "a" f requently asked the Secrery of the i h t 4. al, e h orei- n a , s• School Soclet with regard to t st, and he !h 4t hool. e /le -.e m arl clever young men educated in a sehool e y •e, 1)o:'4h-road, they ) go from g us and take charge of likehttilre oil People finding that they are worthy of confidence s ee s l iete: e sitiel! t l i ed away to other more profitable pursuits and . •aei r ,•'' Tb.'es and leave to inferior masters charge of their to il oiliti ps l ' is a misfortune. They are in consequence of th ose % nf e ' et°l4 "Yed by merchants and manufacturers in si !he of 'Pertance. Rut not surely more important than hi ble u in.structin g the children who are to form tstr ut of the conntry.—( Hear, hear.) It must y rot l ' wh o ;le observation of every one, that it is the schoole rhep e e eertee•allY forms the school, for ' though one may teach ~, ii-eroitiCatee-ris:ortds or certain' parts of the : Bible or the ar o 8 eipi, ,_ ,ne cantot communicate one idea, still less kiei n lire, si " accordance With the doctrines of the Bible. a kti s s a s I r , that all Hon, M be s who hear me are a s t o i n of th a nt, to second any Mein r for improving the edue teett4oee oo ° People and it mea t ns done if we vainly 1, 1 41 4 .1 seho:jlYUlrrY re gulati c o a n n s7o r s 4,.. it ... , of es th e otherwise. be to drive the child to 4 'nit th 'uncle of ed M be . established ones or ,Y thi s e schools ucation is impracticable, but you can ‘l. Now 010(1. fo unded by Protestants or Dissenters, and t ittt et i, „ s - t s !'ii get rid of the objection I have referred to e "Y Th e ~" r egard to the national schools, it has been s taa oll that w‘,orninittee of Education that if they were to e e l ° req uire oo l4 be required for educational purposes, they c pe e'l P e riis o t° eznend 130,0001. in addition, implying a t hat i 4 for e e re °!. 411',000e. I still think that, the grant you etopiet should purposes should be increas d. I think 1 011 4 of E ti l he less than 150,(1001', per annum for the s ° *t e Part 1 ,3 a nd and Wales and I think that the tr, th Part or o . that SUM ShOilict,go to the national scheel ; I ' l lie e No It M ight b bi eel an assistance w e "eh we l scho o l 5 elml n ' " Ztill b °° ls th„ , 8, and the rest might he expended on the oueutplid undeur,nout the country. And this might very Rai e i the p riv the supervision of the Committee of Edo "atiu aro arn, Council, and lam of opinion that in that 4f terit: Thi °ut't of o might th • - 1 .41 „S, th e , S c r o d be done to the cause of edu h ei r , pr , end if 1 , is the resolution to which I beg the !!e rte lale a ti* erne as m ay, the approbation of the Heuse—" that sf,, _ : x w ell a_ ..de of late years in the education of the 40 p4 t1 :41 by li'dit!„,rnore general diffusion have been seen with 14 shottidsk4euse.” I mean nut by these words that " instructed in the way proposed by Go- vernment—not on the principle of exclusive support to the Established Church, but on a principle of separate education for all the denominations into which the inhabitants are divided. I have given a very im -1 perfect outline of this measure, which I think ought to be introduced for the purposes of education. I have, in un dertaking to introduce this measure before the House at this time, taken into consideration the improvement which hag at this period been effected in our trade—the general and political tranquillity and obedience to the law which prevails over the empire—a tranquillity which obviates the possibility of affirming that it was brought forward to put down clamour or to further any political end or party object. You ought also to take ad vantage of such a period, and to propose such measures as you may think beneficial to the great mass of the people. I have given you my views of what is the course of policy which I would adopt; and whether you think free trade, or the prin. ciple of protection should maintain the ascendancy, you should not, at least, wait till a time of disturbance or calamity mould arrive, before you do something for education. If you do so—and I pretend not to know what measures may arise in that time—it will not be so beneficial as at this time. And let me say one word to those who support the agricultural interests in this House—namely, that the settlement of this question will be most favourable to them. Adopt my resolution ; add to it any further resolution that you may think fit, according to your own principle, and as your own views may dispose you ; but my opinion i that your laws cannot stand as they now are. The condition of the people requires alteration—not for the purposes of providing directly for their well being, but for the purpose of giving, as far as in you lies, freedom irom those restraints on food an% education which your own legislation has imposed. The resolution having been put, Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD rose, and said that the amendment of which he had given notice, on the first resolution of the Noble Lord the Member for Lon ion, had reference to a period long before this time. In the year 1842 a petition had been laid before the House, signed by 3,324,000 of the working classes of the country, praying the House to sake into its consi deration the propriety of extending to them some measure of political right, by an extension of the suffrage. A motion in conformity with the prayer of the petition was brought before the House by the Hon. Member for Finsbury and by himself, but that motion did not meet with the opinions of the House, and had, in consequence, been thrown out. The Noble Lord had advocated the principle of the new poor-law, but he de nied that many of the propositions that had been put forward on that subject had met, with the assent of the late Goverament. It was his (Mr. Sharman Crawford's) belief that the object of the New Poor-law was totally to deny to the poor man the right of relief. He believed that the operation of the poor-law was to diminish wages, because the poor man was willing to take any wages rather than submit to the means of subsistence that the law held out to him.—( Hear, hear.) In his opiniou the Poor-law Commissioners ought to be compelled by public opinion to relax the restrictions that were placed upon the poor.—( Hear, hear.) As to the law of settlement, he would not now enter into that question, as he should have an other opportunity of doing so, when he hoped to be enabled to persuade the House not to adopt the proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet on that subject. With respect to emigration he was anxious that means should he taken to keep all the able- bow w ed. 18 43 esrc nano , a d 01 ature 4 , too bodied labourers in this country, and he . was sure, if the means of the country were properly carried out, that could be easily done.—( Hear.) He thought that 44 millions of acres of arable land would be quite sufficient for that pur pose and for the comfort and existence of the whole population. The great evil of the country was that the poor were driven off the land, and that there was no mode by which the agri cultural labourer could elevate himself from his condition.— . ( Hear, hear ) The manufacturing districts were overwhelmed with labourers from the agricultural districts, and that had arisen from the causes he had pointed out. He believed there was no mode by which the House could make itself more popular with the working classes than by respectfully consi dering their petitions which expressed a desire to be properly represented in that House, and to participate in making the laws which were to govern them. The Hon. Member then concluded by moving the following amendment to the Noble Lord the Member for London's resolution : " That the present state of political tranquillity, and the recent revival of trade, afford to this House a favourable opportunity to give im mediate attention to the claims so repeatedly urged in the peti tions of the people, for an extension of the Parliamentary suf frage, as well as to consider of such measures as may tend permanently to improve the condition of the labouring classes." . . . . Sir J. GRAHAM then rose—With the permission of the House be should have wished to have addressed it immediately after the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London had sat down, but as on the first resolution it was his intention to move the previous question, and as the effect of that motion would have been to have prevented the Hon. Member for Rochdale from moving his amendment, he felt it but right and courteous on his part to give him an opportunity of doing so. After reading the resolutions of the Noble Lord, he confessed that he had come down to the Home with great doubt and per plexity as to the course he should pursue, because he felt assured that it would be no slight task to follow him through the different positions he had laid down ; andif any thing were wanting to increase the difficulty, it was the statements of the Honourable Member for Rochdale. Having made these preliminary observations on the difficulty of following the Noble Lord, he felt bound in justice to him to say that any thing more comprehensive, or more worthy of the subject, than the speech of the Noble Lord, he had never heard in that House.—( Hear.) It was totally devoid of any party feeling or any acrimonious assertions. He believed that no subject was more difficult to start with than that which related to the improving the condition of the labour ing classes. Their labour was their only property ; and no subject, therefore, could be more important than their welfare. He trusted that the House would believe him when he said that he intended to meet the Noble Lord in a spirit totally devoid of party, and a desire, if possible, to benefit the working classes. The Noble Lord had asserted that the present Government had been unmindful of the in terests of the working classes, and that the Member s on that side of the House generally were careless about them. In order to deny that he thought he need only refer to what had been done by the Noble Lord the Member for Dorsetshire— Hear, hear)—and what had been the course pursued by the Government with respect to the measures of the Noble Lord. It was true that some modifications had been made in them, but their general principles had been approved of by the Go vernment, and no doubt they would ultimately be carried into effect. The Noble Lord had said that the wages of the agricultural labourers of England did not exceed Bs. a week. Now, his information on the subject differed from that of the Noble Lord. He believed that the average was 10s., and that it was somewhat higher than it was a few years ago. In Norfolk, Suffolk, and Lincolnshire, he was certain the average was above 10s. He would now follow the Noble Lord through all his resolutions. In the first place, he would address himself to the protecting duties. The first resolution could not be looked upon in any other light than complimentary to the present Government. The second resolution, which was with respect to the protecting duties, he would now proceed to. The great policy of Mr. Huskisson was not the abolition of protection, but a substitution of the protecting duties for the prohibitory system. Mr. Huskisson was a strenuous advocate of the corn-laws of 1815, and was the principal author of the corn-law of 1828. He admitted that whilst Mr. Huskisson was the advocate of a protective duty, he was also the author of a gradual de crease of the duty, in proportion to the increase of the population. He asserted that such had been the po licy of the present Government.—(Hear, hear.) He did not wish to weary the House with unnecessary details. But as the Noble Lord had gone so far into them, he must follow for some way. In the first place he must call the attention of the House to how much had been done in the last three years in relieving the productive classes from indirect taxation bearing upon their enjoyments. In 1843 and 1844 no less than 6,300,000/. of indirect taxation had been repealed.—( Hear, hear.) At the same time, by means of direct taxation, the deficiency had been removed, the income was raised above the expenditure, and the naval force of the country had been en larged so the amount of 1,000,0001, per annum.—( Hear, hear.) When the present Government came into office, they ((mod 1,152 articles, of almost the first necessity to the working classes, subjee to duty. They reduced that number more than one-half. —(Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord referred to the ante tedent history of the National Debt, am had stated truly that reductions of the interest had at times served to relieve industry in a considerable degree. But the present Government hat not lost sight of that question. On the contrary they had last year been able to effec an operation of great mag nitude, by!which a a saving of more than a million was obtained. The Noble Lord would excuse him for saying that he was rather amused by the dexterity. with which the Noble Lord evaded the responsibility of his own restrictions. He thought that when a member of that House brought forward such a re solution as the Noble Lord's fourth, it was the duty of that Member to move for a Committee of the House to go into the consideration of the question, whether or not the food of the people should be a matter of protection.—( Hear, hear.) That would be the right course, instead of bringing forward so vague a resolution. —( Cheers.) He thought that the course taken by the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton was the right course, as it went to the question directly.—(Cheers.) But it was quite clear that the Noble Lord himself had not made up his mind upon his own question. Then he said that the time was gone by for a duty of Bs. a quarter upon corn, and that • duty of 4s. or ss. would be sufficient.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord now repudiated the idea of taxing food for the purpose of raising a revenue, and was willing to admit of a duty for the purpose of protection. But, in fact, as a matter of protection, a fixed duty would be a delusion. Four or five shillings, when prices were low, would be no 'protec tion at all, and when they were high, no Govern ment would be strong enough to preserve the peace of the country with such a restriction upon the importation of food. He was satisfied that all the speculation which the Noble Lord attributed to the sliding-scale would be as nothing compared to what a fixed duty of ss. would give rise to. The Noble Lord said that the sliding-scale caused fluctua tions of price. He (Sir James Graham) denied that. He thought that absolute fixedness of price could not be attained with the variability of our seasons. But he would say that no law could produce less variability than the present law. It was very true that a larger amount of foreign corn was brought to market in the three months antecedent to the harvest, than in any other quarter. That, however, was the result of very natural speculation.—(Hear, hear.) He thought it very na tural that the holders of corn should keep it back, until they saw what the state of the harvest would be in respect to quan tity and quality.—( Hear, hear.) He did not wish to overlay this part of the question, but he would absolutely deny that the present law produced uncertainty. In the last twelve months, the fluctuations in price had been--considering the nature of the seasons—very small. Since the Ist of January last, to the present time, 57,000 quarters of fo reign corn had been introduced and brought to market at the highest duty of 20s. a quarter. And with respect to barley, he was able to show that nothing could be more equal or advantageous tkan the present regulation. One million one hundred thousand quarters had been introduced at the highest duty, and notwithstanding that importation, the price had never fallen much below 325., and had not varied more than Is. or Is. 6d. per quarter. Of 135,C30 quarters imported, 131,000 were entered for consumption. New he would ask what wou d the effect be if there had been the uniform duty which the Noble Lord recommended in force, with such harvests as we had had the last two years ?—(Hear. ) The Noble Lord said that no impulse had been given to agriculture by protec tion. But the Noble Lord should admit that since the termination of the French war, there had been a great improvement in agriculture, so much so as nearly to keep pace with the wants of a population which had doubled in the mean time.— (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had stated that the increase of the population was nearly miraculous— that it amounted to 250,000 a year. The Noble Lord under stated the fact, for in the last year the increase had been 370,000. In the last four years no less than 1,500,000 had been added to the population of these narrow islands, whilst the whole amount of the population of Canada was little above 1,00tr.000. The population of Holland was but 2,800,000, and that of Switzerland not quite 2,100,000. Bat this country, with the conduct of which he (Sir J. Graham) and his colleagues had been charged for the last four years — (Cheers and great laughter) —the population had increased by a number equal to more than two-thirds that of Holland or Switzerland, and beyond that of Canada.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") But at the same time the rate of wages had risen, and the prices of all the necessaries of life had diminished.—( Cheers.) But he thought that if they were to do away suddenly with the protection to the agri culturist, which—( whether wisely or not) —had existed a quarter of a century, they would inflict a great injury upon the whole community. The Noble Lord had said, that measures should be adopted to improve the condition of all classes of the community. But he would ask, was it not the fact, that all Y THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, MAY 27, 1845. classes had improved in their circumstances since the present , against it, and in ease of its being rejected, then he should Govei nment came into office ?—( Hear, hear.) He would move the previous question. ask, what was the condition of the manufacturing districts Sir C. BURRELL said, that in the course of his speech when the present Government took office ? Look to the state the Noble Lord had made some reflections on the county of of Paisley, in 1842. —(Hear, hear.) Look to the condition Sussex—( Hear, hear)—at least such was his impression of the of Stockport at the same period.—( Hear, hear.) He observations which the Noble Lord had male. When the then read extracts from the reports of the inspector Noble Lord recollected how great the changes which a few of factories at Stockport, to show, that the menu- years made in the population of the county. and when he espe facturers of that place were then in a state of the cially recollect e d hew that population was now tending towards greatest distress, that the works were almost all closed, and the the coast, he thought that the Noble Lord would change his operatives thronging the streets in a starving condition. Mr. position, and allow that the lower classes in the county of Sus- Saunders, an inspector of the woollen district of Yorkshire, sex were not so reduced as he representedthem. Had he known made a statement from which it appeared, that in 1838, the thatcounty properly he would never have so aspersedthe gentry of number of 54,000 p erso ns, o f all ages, were e m ployed in ;the that county. In another part of his speech he had spoken factories. In those f ac tories th e re we r e n ow employed of the want of education among the labourers, and 114,000, showing an increase of 38 per cent. of persona of all of the disregard which was felt for their wants. He (Sir ages. Tee reports of the manufacturing districts in Scotland C. Burrell) thought that he might pretend to know something and Ireland were at least as satisfactory, and there were in some , of the country, and he could assert that it was a constant districts a want of hands. He (Sir J. Graham) had there also desire among the landowners, and all connncted with the some individ ua l case s re p r esented to hi m by Mr. Clements, property of the country, to find employment for the peor, even an Assistant-Poor-law Commissioner, which he would not read, though at a s icrifice, rather than send them to the poor-house. through the fear of delaying the House. He (Mr. Clements) ,He knew something of the labourers, also, for he had been in stated that in one manufactory in his district, the the habit, for many years, of paying upwards of seventy number of labourers who worked for thirty days labourer:, and had never heard that they were either in want or during the five weeks ending the 3d of May, 1845, 1 dissatisfied, and he was certain that there was a great desire received 384/., while the same number, who worked nineteen j throughout the country to meet the necessities of the poer, and days during the five weeks ending the 3d of April, 1842, re. j provide them with employment, and he should be glad to know ceived 2161., making a difference of 1 38/. A master-mason 1 from what source the N o bl e L ord derived h i s i n f orma ti on . told him (Mr. Clements), that during the distress of 1841 I Lord JOHN RUSSELL certainly did not d es i re to t h row and 1842 he would gladly accept employment at two shillings any a - persions on the county of S usse x. He had derived his a day, but that now he was getting three shillings and seven- information from the report of' the Commissioners to investigate pence per day, and that, if he close to leave his present the state of the prisons in the county, and to report upon the master, be could receive four shillings per day. He ( Mr. state of the education of the prisoners whom they might find in Clements) further stated that they could now get anything the gaols. they liked to ask for. He then dilated on the relative condi- Sir C. BURRELL--Would the Noble Lord state what lion of the operatives, and how it depended upon the price of gaols ? the necessaries of life. He (Sir James Graham) wished to Lord J. RUSSELL—Certainly not. assure the House that upon the point of the extent of Mr. LA BOUCIIERE said that he had listened with great wages in the manufacturing districts, he instituted the most satisfaction to the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the Secrc careful inquiry, and he held in his hand an account tary for the Home Department. He was glad to perceive from of the wages of the various departments of labour, and prime- that speech the course which the Government intended to pally of the skilful labourers in Liverpool, Sheffield, L e eds, pur s ue, and that they intended to carry out many useful and Newcastle-on-Tyne, and Manchester, comprising s ix y e ars, practical measures for the advantage of the country. He was which stated the annual average of wages in 1845 was as high the last person to obje c t to suc h a course, or to any set of men as that of any of the five antecedent years ; and, on the whole, when they evidently were desirous of promoting good and great with the exception of one or two towns, it was higher than in purposes. But still h e th oug h t that there was some d ou bt o f th e any of the previous years. He would read to the House the utility of the mode w hi c h t h ey adopte d i n carry i ng ou t account from Newcastle-on-Tyne, which stated that the their designs; and w h en t hi s impress i on was preva l en t wages of labourers had been on the increase, and that the in the country he th oug h t h e was not going ton f ar i n s t at i ng workmen were generallly employed. It s t a t e d th a t i n 1841, his opinion that the distress of the lower classes had riot been 1812, and 1843, the trade was had, but that it revived in 1844 ; sufficiently considered. —( " Hear, hear," from Lord J. Rus and the most of the trade prices given for work had advanced. sell.) He thought, therefore. that the motion of his Noble In Liverpool it said that in the years from 1840 to 1844 1,000 Friend was both a useful and a wise one, and that he had workmen were out of employment, and now that there were taken a wise part in bringing this matter before the considera. scarcely sufficient applications for work. During the last six weeks tion of the House. He thought it was ba'ter to resort to good ending on the 19th of April, 1640, the wages paid in a certain advice rather than to resort to the hazardous assistance of the establishment then were 303/. ;in 1841, 3951. ;in 1842,260 e; empiric. He could not but repeat that he had heard the in 1843, 282/. ; in 1844, 2901.; and in the six weeks ending speech of the Right Hon. Baronet with great satisfaction. As the 19th of April, 1845, that house paid to the same hands no an indication of the course which the G o vernment intended to less than 695/.—( Hear, hear.) Ile (Sir J. Graham) said pursue, it certainly was good ; but what did the speech amount that the amount of wages was not the only one ingredient in to ? That there had been a great revival in trade—that cora the comparative comfort of the labouring classes; they should merce and manufactures had been aroused from their great look also to the prices of the articles of the first necessity. depression, anti that the people were relieved from the dread- He stated also that in the agricultural districts, so far from ful depression ce high prices.—( Hear.) During the present there being a fall of wages, there had been an actual increase year this had been remarkable, and he trusted that such in many counties. He would wish to call their attention to measures would be taken as would effectually prevent any re the command that the same amount of labour had over the ne- turn to the disastrous pion of high prices. But what was all cessities of life compared with that of former years. this ascribed to? Owing to the speeches of the Hon. Gen. He was not one of those who denied that a bad har- tlemen opposite all these advantages had been ascribed to the vest was one of the greatest curses that Provi- wisdom of the Government, and it was not until they were in dence could inflict, and that an abundant harvest was terrupted by the laughter on the other side of the House that one of the greatest blessings that it could bestow ; that all they began and perceived that seasons had something to do human legislation was vain against the dispensations of Pro- with it. When, in additiou to this, they were induced to vidence, and that all legislation was inoperative when compar e d l oo k further they might, he thought,' ascribe some thing with the blessings of Providence ; but when he came to read to also to those periodical changes to which commercial them the prices of the articles of the fiat necessaries he would affairs were always subject, and to the low prices show that a great many of them had decreased during the pre- which had ensued in consequence of the general prosperity. sent legislation. He would compare the present year with the Assuming that tha argument of the Right Hon. Gentleman prices of the year when the change of Government took place. was correct, what a strong argument it was why they should In the year 1841 the price of wheat was 645. per quarter, in proceed in a course which had been been attended with such the present year the price was 465. per quarter. In 1841 the beneficial effects. Let them then proceed—let tirem develop price of barley was 335. per quarter, it was now 325. 3d. per the resources of the country and open up its channels to the in quarter. In 1841 the price of oats was 21s. 11d., it was fluence of still further changes in these high prices. —(Hean ) now 21s. 4d. The price of flour was 10ed. per quartern, Ile was not, however, disposed to go much into detail. He it was now Bid. The price of oatmeal was 61 considered ,that the calm and tranquillity which pervaded the per quarter, it was now 3d. The articles which he country was favourable to the consideration of such questions. was about to enumerate would not so much depend on the The Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir James Graham) said that harvests. The price of beef in 1841 was 7d. per lb. it was the country was at the present moment in a state of great pros now 50. per lb. The price of mutton was 7d. per lb., and periry, and that part at least of that prosperity was owing to the within the last fourteen days it was 6d. per l'e. The price of late commercial changes that had been introduced by the pre pork which was 7d. per lb. in 1841 was now 6d. per lb. The sent Government. If that was so, let them take care that a re price of sugar which was 7d. per lb. in 1841 was now sd. per coil would not take place, and producea state of thines worse than lb. The price of coffee which was 2s. in 1841 was now Is. 4d. what preceded those changes. The country ought, he coo per lb. The price of currants which were 9d. per lb. was sidered, to be grateful to the Noble Lord who had brought new 6d. Candles were sold in 1841 at 7d. per lb. they were forward this great question, influenced, as he was in doing so, now sold at 6d. per lb. He cou ld enumerate various by no factious or party feeling. He (Mr. Labouchere) per other articles, almost every one of which and- fectly concurred in th e resolutions which h a d b een b rought ponded with those already referred to, and there forward by the Noble Lord, and he would earnestly implore was not an increase in any one article. He thought the Government to take them into their serious consideration. that the Noble Lord did injustice to h er M a j es ty' s Government, He had great objection, however, to the manner in which and to the Right Hon. Baronet a t t h e h ea d o f th a t Govern- they had brought about the changes which they had already ment, when he referred t o th e measures w hi c h h e h a d adopted, introduced. Not only did they disarrange trade and commer with respect to the monetary s y s tem o f thi s c ountry.. It was cial affairs, but he believed that they had been the cause of most true that there was a large increase of the circulating prt :lucing the great discontent which prevailed in the manufac medium, but while there was a necess i ty o f pay i ng in gold, turing districts. He thoughtthat whatever claim the landed in their prosperity was decreased b y th e un d ue i ss ue of paper, terest might have to a protective duty, they were not entitled to payable on demand, which was no t on ly evanesce nt, but was have it in such a way as todamage the commercial interests of the attended with the most severe pressure upon all classes, and country. They—the Parliament—of that House, had set an upon none more than upon the labouring classes. In the year example, he would not say for what purpose or pretext—they 1841, the amount of bullion in the hands of the Bank of had pursued a course, in reference to sugar, which set a bad England was only 5,000,000/., and the amount of notes in example to the rest of the world. He thought that their re circulation was 16,4 , 10,000 e. Wh en h e was now addressing cent measures and policy, in reference to Brazil, had the ten them, the amount of bullion in their hands was 16,00,00 U/., dency rather to perpetuate than to put an end to the slave instead of 5,000,000/., and the circulation in notes, instead of trade. But as that was not the time to enter into that ques being 16,400,0001. was no less than 21,163,0C9/., and consequent tion, he would not detain the House further, but conclude by upon the measure of last year, vti`h reference to the Bank of giving his hearty support to the resolutions which had been England, there was now a progress in -the same respect in the brought forward by the Noble Lord. —( Hear. ) banks both of England and Ireland. Measures were taken Sir J. T YRRELL considered that parties in that House against the undue circulation of that sear, and he believed that and in the country were in an extraordinary position. They they were going certain lengths with respect to the Bank of had an opposition doing the business of the Government, and England which would render that prosperity not only not they had a Government who were deserted by those who evanescent, but stable, and these measures were not only in o ught to be, and had been its most strenuous supporters. For progress, but had received their completion and had produced his own part, he gave his best thanks to the Noble Lord who theirwffects. Then let him call attention to the state of ape- had brought forward this question for the opportunity which culation in this country, for it should be admitted that specu- he had afforded him of expressing his opinion on it. lie did lotion had had great effect upon the state of the labouring popu- not think that any Member of the House was open to the lation in this country ; and the first class of speculation to which charge of prolonging the debate when he attempted to lay he would call attention was the amount of capital that before the House the judgment he had formed on these had been embarked in railway speculations within the last four all-important questions. The Noble Lord had brought forward years. Up to the year 1841, there were laid down in this his motion on the corn question, feeling that this was the country 2,345 miles of railroads, at a cost of 66,700,000/. ; in great battle-field, and the main question for their considera. the year 1844 there were 728 additional miles laid down, at an tion. The Noble Lord had done great injutice to the agri additional cost of 10,4C0,0e0/. ; and during the present session cultural interest, inasmuch as there was a great fund at the the creation of new lines of rail amounted to 6,000 additional disposal of any Minister who might think fit to carry it out for miles, with a capital equal in amount to 80,000,000/. Last the benefit of that interest. By the 43d of Elizabeth it was year, the lines of railway which received the sanction of Par- enacted that all persons should contribute to the poor-rate in liament extended to an outlay of ten millions ; and this year proportion to their means.—( Hear, hear.) If that were now it was expected that the outlay in the country upon rail- the case he thought Government would soon find a large fund roads that should receive the sanction of the Legislature, at their disposal for the purposes of education, and for vile_ would amount to about 20,033,030/. Now, of course, a great viating the distresses of th e poor • b u t it happened that of late deal of this money whould be expended in giving employment ; Ministers had fought very s h y of the commercial and menu in fact, for many years to come it wou ld g i ve very extensive factoring districts of the country. Yet there were many indi employment. There was another matter in connexion with viduals in the large towns of this country who did not con this subject, to which he would beg to direct attention, in re- tribute one particle to the ma i ntenance o f the poor-rates— ference to the state of the working classes—namely, the dimi- Howell and James's, or Storr and Mortimer's, for instance, who nution of crime in E ng l an d. H e f oun d, by returns that had would tell him that they had invested their money in pro been laid before the House, a very considerable decrease in perty.—( Laughter. ) the diminution of c ri me . H e f oun d that, in the year 1842, if the principles of Hon. Gentlemen u h oppositeter were there was a diminution of f u ll 50 per cent. ; in 1843 were harshly dealt with, as those on that s id e o f t h e House did it was still greater ; and the diminution of crimes of not carry out their own p r i nc i ples. With respect t o m alt, for e an o question true, o c u n e which, they an atrocious character was still more remarkable for instance, they did not take off any portion of the duty, and yet the last year.—( Hear.) He would next call attention such would be the increased consumption, and such the addi to the Report of the Poor-law Commissioners that had been tional amount added to the revenue, t h a t no loss would be sus laid on the table of the House this year, by which it appeared tained by any such course —on the contrary, when the agricul that, as compared with last year, there was a diminution equal tural interest complained, th ey sa id t o them, "We cannot to 20 per cent. as compa r ed w ith t h e year 1843, of able ho- forego any such imposition;" and when they asked for a trifle, died persons relieved in the workhouses. With regard to what they told them that it was unworthy of the agricultural interest the Noble Lord had sa id a b ou t t h e l aw o f se ttl e ment, he (Sir to make such a demand. He could not, however, descend to J. Graham) begged t o s ay that hi s o pi n ion was in favour of personalities, because he was perfectly aware that they ought making birth the test of a right to settlement, though objet- not to be tolerated when great interests were lions might arise to the regulation in the rural districts at stake ; but this he would say, that when the which could not apply i n manu f ac turing towns. manu f ac t ur i ng di s t r i cts were in a state of d epress i on , th e With reference to the Noble Lord's opinion upon emi- Right Hon. Baronet altered the corn-laws,.but when the agri gration, he (Sir James Graham) was rather at a loss cultural interest complained —as they did at the commence to understand the Noble L or d. Th e em i grat i on t o America ment of the present session —the Right lion. Baronet's re was a comparatively cheap and sho r t v oy a ge—it cost but 71. medy was to make the manufacturing and commercial interests of but there all the Crown lands in that country belonging to this t h e co u n try so rich and at the same time so hungry—( Laugh had been made over to the local authorities, so that there was ter)—that he was not able to find them provisions. That was not much to be expected by emigrants going to that country. th e way great interests were dealt with. It had been said that. And as to Ass walla, that voyage occupied five months, and th ey we r e n o t in a condition to form an agricultural adminis cost 191., while in Sydney there was at present such an excess tration.—(Hear, hear.) But be that as it may they thought of labour that people were wandering about there unable to th a t they had done so. He for one did not consider that any get work, and therefore the Government should exercise greater reflection on the intelligence of that body than it would the utmost caution in recommending emigrants to that colony. be in a nobleman who had not two sets of butlers, nor two sets Ile had before him a table s h ow i ng t h e em i gra ti on which had of cooks, and who did not offer his guests the entertainment taken place from the United Ki ng d om d ur i ng tee last ten they had expected. Those on the bench below him he thought years. In 1641, 18,000 persons emigrated ;in 1842, 28,000 ; had forfeited their confid ence , and so far as they 1843, 57,003; and in 1844, no less than 70,000 persons emi- were concerned they might look for other friends. grated. During the first quarter of the present year, the emi- It was true they might not get better.—(Laughter.) grations from the United Kingdom amounted to 13,507 ; the The great parties in this Howe were so united that th e r e wa s number for the same period of last year, being 7,286. He now very little difference betw een t h em o n great or small questions. came to another point on which the Noble Lord dwelt with —e Laughter.) It was ne cessary t o call them by name to spe great earnestness and anxiety—he alluded to the means taken cify their opinions. He felt considerably indebted to the Noble for the education of the working classes. He admitted with Lord for bringing forward those resolutions. He regretted ' the Noble Lord, that all efforts to improve the education of the that he could not vote for them—(Laughter)-because they. working classes, without attention being paid to the improve- were not of a practical character. The Noble Lord ment of their physical condition, would be found useless and tended that they should be so.— ( Continuedtlauguhutderiu'uk But unavailing. Ile was satisfied, that in the first instance they he must do him the justice to say that he k t e c p must pay attention to the improvement of the physical con- keeping a man at the mast-head watch dition of the working classes. Their physical condition being moved, that he might avail himself of he should utmost attention on their moral improvement. Had the Go- fidence of the Queen. Under circumstancesthesee iiedi a any l aw o gh p e p n or t t f improved, it became the duty of the Government to bestow the taking the reins of Government, and of obtaining the con utmost not believe that vernment shown neglect in this respect ? In 1841, the annual sit down.—( Great laughter.) not for him to point out. and last year it was 70,0001. Since her Majesty's present What might happen in the future was vote for education was 30,000/. ; in 1842, it was 4 0 , 0 ° 04 ; the constituencies of the country had changed their opinions. hu laughter.) s e t ty out,anow had been granted to the National School Society, Lord held power he . had not propounded Government came into office, the sum of 10,000/. —( Loud laughter. ) During the ten years auy w in h t i e c t h lig t i te le N nt o e b a le . ing master., and the sum of 750/. had been granted to the great pains 1,000/. in aid of the Normal schools for train- sure in tll t House od, lte wornth its s es i p m e p c n t r t t o a n e e d e u . cat l i t l e al w th er o e ug as h k h ed e took why g ra h c t t chiefly deplored, he would say that they arose from a granted to a school at Chelsea, 3,500/. to a Normal school at for one Foreign School Societies. The sum of 3,5001. had been all classes were in the receipt of such small wages, which he school of the West. Riding of Yorkshire. The sum of 9,0001. policy which they intended to pursue t towards h those engaged in Battersea, and a further sum of 3,500/. granted to the diocesan want of confidence in the Ministers and in that flo bi u cea s l e rliyg as hwt t: obn t u h gt e : m eh ig , h t tdm e a hy h e n a m n pi ttobe acorn-law establishment h b l e i s e h n ul grante dNormaltot eG s e ch n :r e a l ! a Assembly u w e f atotlEadnidu Edinburgh, hhe, being itstlfyar right, theorys they h w . men as well as of vances—had been made for the foundation of schools in Great debate. The Hon. Member and generally speaking very large advances--progressive ad- It could not be disguised b th er at c t un w el w ud as e that house, he saying that when Britain. No less a sum than 320,000/. had been spent in the they next put their noses into of establishment of schools since the year 1833. Those sums taken if there was not changeaN had been advanced in addition to subscriptions of private Lord POLLIN GTO differed entirely • measures. from the views of individuals. Altogeth er w ithi n th e l as t t we lve years the Right Hon. Baronet who had Just sat down. A n anc i en t as much as one milli on o f cap it a l h a d been philo s opher said that there were two great feeling s i n our expended in Great Britain i n b u ild ing an d f oun di ng sc hool s . na ture, the sympathy and antipathy,.. but the strongest f ee li ng Nor had the Dissenters been behind h an d i n thi s , f or they hail of of all was the sympathyantipathy . y- He thou g ht thi s observa subscribed as much as 70,000/. He had now b u t one o th e r ti on v ery well applied to mans tin• Members on th a t s id e o f subject to notice in reference to the moral i m p rovemen t o f the th e H ous e who opposed the Government. The Hon. Baronet to his own country , hut would people of this country, and that was in reference to a measure boasted of his affection James's t , yet raise brought forward by his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the a palace of foreign stone in St. J s reet, erected by foreign to the - Government, and which received the sanction of Parliament artists.—(Hear.) With respect . e corn-laws, he had not the in the course of last year. He alluded to the measure which same feelings of dislike to their repeal as many Hon. Members enabled the Ecclesiastical Commissioners of England, without on that side of the House.—( " Hear , hear," from the Opposi any contribution from the public funds, to build churches and tion.) He objected to colonization . on any hut a full and colo of sending convicts to to place endowed ministers in densely-inhabited manufacturing plete system. The plan our colonies had districts of this country. The measure had now been in opera- been most pernicious. Withrespect .to the question of educa tion for about t welve months, and during that time thirteen tion he thought much good had been done by the attention churches had been built, thirty - nine were in progress of being which Parliament. had lately devoted to the subject. He pre built, and forty-seven were contracted for to be built. ferred no education to education without religion—t ota l d ar k - Those churches would afford accommodation to 260,000 nese was b e tt er than false lig hts, which would lead them to people. He had now shown that, coincident with the destruction. said measures which had been proposed in the last three or f our M r . VILLIERS rose and that .he bad been listening years, there had been a most remarka ble re vi v al of the trade of with the greatest attention for some hours to the discussion this country. There had been, on the whole, an increase in promoted by the Noble Lord, and he took great anxiety the wages of labour, and there had been a diminution of crime to find an answer to the principal question raised and a diminution of pauperism. Much religious instruction hail by his resolutions —to see some reasons why been afforded, and, on the whole, he did hope and believe, that lie should not intrude himself upon the att en ti on o f the account which he had been reading would be regarded as the House, either by an answer to his Noble Friend's indicative of no neglect of duty on the part of the Government. arguments, or by a d etermination of his Noble Friend He was confident that the British public would see that they t o relieve him from t h e trouble of obtruding himself on that h a d f a ithfully discharged their duties, with a sincere and h ones t H ouse i n f uture . Ni) one could. ~ dislinte the great questi on desire to promote the interest and happiness ' of all classes of raised by his Noble Friend that night—it was a question of pro ber Noble Lord Majesty's subjects, but more especially the interests and tective duty, because the brought before the welfare of the labouring classes. He must say, that in his opt- House the condition of the labou classes, with a view to the nion the resolutions which had been proposed by the Noble improvement of their con dition. Ile allud e d to many t i m i ngs Lord, must be regarded , both by the House and by the w hi c h h a d d e teriorated the condition of the labouring classes, country. as demonstrations of a disapprobation o f t h e con- but which were not within the reach or cor.troul of the Legis duct of her Majesty's Government, and as indicative lature, but he alluded to one thing in p art i cu l ar w hi ch had of an opinion that her Majesty h a d been ill advised. He should b een the especial cause of _ this d e t er i orat i on an d feel it to be his duty be fore he sat down t o move the previous which was within the control of Parliaments—( Hear. ) question, but to arrive at that previous question it was first ne- He had presented to t he House that night a high duty with cessary to negative the amendment of the Honourable Member 11 that lie had said on t h e subject, and they had been waiting hear the for R oc hdale. He could hardly think that the Honourable n t h at s id e o f t h e House to, theory defended, and to would be disposed to press the amendment t o a h ear w h et h er it wa s practicably true what had been prqposed. Gentleman division. If, however , he should persist in p ress i ng hi s amend- He really listened with interest when the lion . IllemUer for t nent, it would be his (Sir James Graha m ' s ) d uty to vote Sussex rose, and thought h e would rise with just indignation ' ~. ~, " to defend the aspersions that had been cast on the opposition offered by the Right Honourable the Secre tary of State. He thought there were arguments in its defence, which would reconcile the House to the con tinuance of the measure. The Right Hon. Gentleman laboured to prove the great blessing and great advantage to the community at large, and especially to the labouring classes, which had resulted from certain restrictions on trade. The arguments which had been submitted appeared to him to hare been adduced merely to consume the time of the House. He believed in no other assembly such arguments would be tole rated. For the last seven years, these arguments had been heard over and over again. The prices were low, which meant that food was abundant, and they had the Right Hon. the Secretary of State for the Home Department as a witness to what were the effects of low prices. if it were wished to put a witness in the box to speak to these effects, he knew of no man in whom more implicit confidence could be placed, and to whose word more could be trusted, or whose evidence would be more satisfactore, than the Right Hon. Gentleman. He says, in the first place, the labouring class are well off. He does not say this as a progressive improvement, but he contrasts it with the time when he would have wished it. He gives you some results, to show what was the effect of low prices in diminishing misery. He goes through every test to try the condition of the lower classes. He says, crime is diminished, and crime is usually the result of poverty. He says that wages are increased not only in the manufacturing, but also in the agricultural districts. He told the House that the rates for the relief of the poor had been diminished, aid there was less destitution in the country. He had given the price of provisions, and had said that the price of meat had been reduced from 7d. per pound to 6d., and that sugar some time ago was 7d. per pound, and was now only sd. ; and told us to regard the blessing that had resulted from this reduction in price. The Noble Lord has said, by the system we were pursuing,. we were raising the price of food u l ion the community and the labouring classes, and if they were obliged to pay more for their food, they would be less able to clothe and educate their children. If those on the Opposition side of the House succeeded in raising the price of food, then they were willing to go back to the law of 1840 and 1841 ; but if •they failed in raising the price of food, then they cared not for 10s. additional to the present rate of duty. There was no escape from this con clusion, so he would leave them to settle them as they could. —(Cheers.) The question was, is protection worth having, or is it not ? The Hon. Gentleman who agreed with the lion. Member for Sussex had stated they withdrew their con fidence from the Ministry, for the injury they had inflicted on the agricultural interest by their recent tariff,was this the fact. According to the Hon. Member for Sussex, the labourers in his county were never better off than they were new. The labourers were well employed and paid. He had in his own employment seventy labourers, who were described to be ex ceedingly well to do; yet this was at a time when he was threatening to withdraw his snpport from the Government who had passed the law under which this prosperity had taken place.—(Cheers:) He wanted to know if there was any rational ground or pretence for protective duties at all? The Noble Lord the Member for London, in the course of his address, had pointed out with great clearness and ability the benefits which had resulted from the removal of protection. He had instanced wool and silk, about which the greatest cry was raised in both Houses of Parliament at the time the duties were reduced.—( Hear, hear.) Noble Lords and Right Honourable Gentlemen manifested the greatest fears of the bad consequences which would follow, Yet so far from anything injurious resulting, the step taken had been attended with great advantage to those particular trades and the general interests of the country. There was not one single argument applied to wool or silk, but what equally applied to corn. The Noble Lord had shown that wherever the protective system was in existence, the interest sought to be benefited was invariably depressed. The Noble Lord had c mtrasted his intermediate scheme for a 4s. duty with the less equivocal measure propounded by him self and colleagues. But wherein consisted virtually the diffe rence between an insignificant restrictive import, acknow ledged to be but temporary, and an immediate free trade? The principle was admitted, but the mischief retained. For himself, however, he thanked the Noble Lord for the opportu nity he had afforded the House of discussing the question, and he trusted it would meet with that consideration its interest and importance demanded. The Hon. Mr. SCOTT thought it was incumbent upon the agriculturists of the county to raise a sufficient supply of food for the population, and without protection were afforded to that interest it was quite impossible that the object could be ac complished. The population of the country, it was admitted, increased a thousand per day or 365,000 per year, and this circumstance rendered it necessary that agricultural protection should be increased in order that the supply of food might keep pace with the demand. In his opinion, it was absurd to expect that a repeal of the existing corn-law would induce corn producing countries to export their grain, or increase the manufacturing trade of Eng land. Prussia had imported the largest quantity of corn into this country, and yet in the l as t year P russ i a had only taken 201. worth of printed goods, and 1271. of cotton goods. It was much better, therefore, to give protection and encouragement to the British agriculturist, and they might rely upon.it, in pro portion to the increase of protection, the trade of manufacture would be augmented. On the motion of Mr. HOWARD, the debate was then ad journed till Wednesday. The report on the last Committee of Supply was brought up and agreed to. MILITARY SAVINGS' BANK BILL. The Bill went through Committee, and the report was ordered to be received on Friday. The remaining orders of the day were then disposed of, and .he House adjourned at One o'clock.; RAILWAY COMMITTEES (YESTERDAY.) Group E. IMPORTANT DECISION. ATMOSPHERIC RAILWAY BILL THROWN OUT. The Committee met this morning at twelve, Lord Worsley in the Chair, and immediately afterwards the room was ordered to be cleared. The doors were re-opened shortly be'ore two o'clock when The CHAIRMII4 announced that the Committee had decided that the preamble to the Newcastle and Berwick Bill had been proved, and that the preamble to the Northumberland Atmosphe. ric Bill had not been proved; thus deciding against the Atmosphe ric principle. The most intense anxiety was manifested during the time the Committee was in deliberation, and the lobbies leading to the Corn. mittee-room were crowded to excess. NEWCASTLE AND DARLINGTON (BR ANDLING JUNC. TION) RAILWAY. This Bill for enabling the Newcastle and Darlington Junction Railway Company to purchase the Brandling Junction Railway, and to enable the said Company to make certain branch railways, stations, and works, and for other purposes, occupied the attention of the Committee for the remainder of the day. Mr. TEMPLE addressed the Committee for the purpose of show. ing the advantages that would accrue to the public if these two junctions were brought under the control of one board. Mr. Hudson, Chairman of the Company, and the purchaser of 1,000 shares in both these junctions was examined by Mr. TEMPLE, and stated that when it was understood that the Newcastle and Darlington Company contemplated purchasing the Brandling Junc. tion, the shares were 18 or 28 per cent , thereby showing the confi dence they had in the advantages to be derived. After a short cross-examination, during which nothing material was elicited, the Committee adjourned to eleven o'clock tomorrow. Group R. DUBLIN AND ARMAGII. The Committee met today at 12 o'clock; Mr. Gibson Craig in the chair. The Citatemax said the Committee had been considering the order in which the business should be taken up; and thought the best course to pursue would be to take up the two projects first ; and should their promoters make out such a case as to lead the Committee to think the preamble of the Belfast Junction ought not to pass, to call upon the latter to reply to the case of the projects. But it otherwise, the Committee would proceed to take up the re. maining lines, deferring the decision on the preamble of the Belfast Junction till the whole were finished, when a general decision would be given on all the lines. The Dublin and Armagh project was then gone into, Mr. M. Chambers appearing for the promoters, Mr. CHAMBERS proceeded at once to call his witnesses, reserv ing to himself the right to address on the summing up instead of the opening of the case. Mr. Blacker, agent for the Earl of Gosport, was first examined. He knew Armagh well. He thought the inland line was much preferable to the coast line. He knew the country on both lines well. His reasons for thinking the inland the best were, that it wag on a much lower level than the other, there being 236 feet difference between the two, and that it would afford much greater facilities for the carrying of produce from the interior to the sea. ports along the coast. The produce that would be carried along the line would be grain, flax, pork, butter, and eggs, Immense quanti. ties of which were taken to the ports along the coast, more espe cially to Belfast. According to the Belfast Junction, the people of Kells and Navan would have to go round by Drogheda to get to Dublin. The feeling at Armagh was decidedly in favour of the inland line. He had attended several meetings in which this feel ing was very strongly expressed. There were not so many towns in direct connexion with this line as there were in the coast one, but there was a larger agricultural population, and he believed it was intended to connect these towns with this line by means of branches. To Mr. Mortenv—He could not tell who were the projectors of this project. He came forward at the Instance of the solicitor of it. He was not there to answer as to the parties who composed the Company, but as to the merits of the line compared with the other. He was not acquainted with the promoters of the project, but he had no doubt, if the line was favourably entertained by the Committee, there would be, in his opinion, no want of money or supporters to carry it out. He thought the Dublin and Drogheda line very good, as connecting the towns on it, but not as a national undertaking. He thought the line from Drogheda to Portadown better than the former in this respect, but still not what a national line of railway ought to be. Such a line ought to be more inland, and he was of opinion the Dublin and Armagh line was decidedly the best for such a purpose. This line would not be serviceable to the coast without branches to Drogheda, Newry, and Dundalk. He thought it would be of service to have a line from Drogheda to Dundalk, and that the Dublin and Armagh line would not be of service for tuch a purpose, but he supported the latter, because he held it was better adapted for the wants of the whole country. The CULIRMAN—WouId not passengers in going from Drogheda to Dundalk, and from Dundalk to Newry, have to go up frog, each place along a branch to the main line, then along the tnain line, and, lastly, from the main line down a second branch to the respective terminations; in fact, to have to pass along three sides of a square. Most undoubtedly they would, but he thought ten or fifteen minutes extra in passing between these towns of little consequence, compared with the general interests of the country. Mr. Paton said he resided its the city of Armagh. He had a pretty good knowledge of that part of the country. This line, taking into account general purposes, was to be preferred, as it would take in the whole interior of the country, and by branches accommodate the leading ports on the coast. He knew there was a line proposed to be carried forward to Portrush, and the inland one would be decidedly preferable, to accommodate those travelling from Armagh along that line. He had heard Mr. Blacker, and he was not aware that there was any point in which he differed from him. S4veral meetings had been held in Armagh, at which resolutions were unanimously passed In favour of the inland line There were a great number of flax mills, corn mills, and bleaching grounds in the neighbourhood of Kendy ; in his opinion as many as at Port down ; all of which would be accommodated by this line. The length of the railway from Drogheda to Dublin was either 32 or 33 English miles, and considerably further than the mail road. tie had seen the section of the Belfast Junction at Newry, and thought it would be very inconvenient, on account of the elevation above the quays. He did not think the people would be satisfied with it. To Mr. MURPIIY—He did not mean to compare the Portedown district with the Kendy one, if the former was extended to in. dude Tenderageer, Lurgan, Banbridge, and Guildford. He did not know whether there was a market at Kendy. He was not aware of any company being formed for this, neither was he in any way connected with it. To Mr. Bone—He believed that If the coast line were rejected by the House of Commons, the inland line would be immediately taken up, and a company formed for its execution. The length of the inland line we understood to be eight y.five miles. Mr, W. Kirk said he had not curie to town to give evidence on this line, but on the Newry and Enniskillen. But here he had met Mr. Cumming, the solicitor, who had requeste-1 him, if he had no objection, to come before the Committee and give his opinion. He is a linen merchant and bleacher, near Kends', and a magistrate of the county of Armagh. He considered the inlet ill line much preferable to the one along the coast. Armagh was a con siderable market for the linen trade. He bleached himself daily about 500 pieces, or 157,000 a year, and the persons directly and indirectly employed in producing these pieces amounted to many thousands. The coast line would not accommodate him at all ; but if the Newry and Enniskillen line were formed in addition to the coast line, then he would be as perfectly well accommodated as if the in land line were constructed. To Mr. ALEXANDER—If they took ten miles on each s'de of the inland line, they would find as great a population as they wou!d find on the coast line—taking it ten miles on the side op posite the coast. Ite-examined by Mr. CiIAMBERS.—He thought the inland line, all things considered, the most adapted for the wants of the country. Armagh was one of the best markets for the sale of flax, and a considerable quantity was shipped for England and Scotland. That for shipment to the east of Scotland went by 13elfast, and that for Leeds and Yorkshire by Newry. The inland line came within three miles of Kendy. Mr. Gardner, examined by Mr. CHAMBERS, said he lived at Ar magh, and was an iron-founder and general machine maker in a firm there. lie was also engaged in the woollen trade. He cast metal for the machinery of the district, and also made up machinery to be employed in the linen trade. His woollen trade was an import and retail one. At present Belfast was their Scotch port, and Newry their English one; but with a good communication with Newry the latter would become their entire port. The whole water power of the district was already taken up, and any additional power would require to be steam ; hence a direct and speedy communication with Newry was necessary for a .cheap and efficient supply of fuel. Upon the whole, his dccidcd impression was that the inland line would be the best for the general wants of the country at large. There was nothing of material consequence elicited by the crcs examination of this witness. Mr. M'Endow, agent of the Canal Company at Newry, said he knew the district well. A great amount of goods were tak• from Armagh to be shipped at Newry. Tnere was between 6,0k,1 and 7,000 tons sold yearly in Armagh, the greater portion which went towards Newry and Belfa.t. The Inhabitants Armagh, supposing both lines were constructed, would, he was so decidedly prefer the inland one. He generally agreed with the evidence of Mr. Kirk respecting the flax and linen trede, as that gentleman, being extensively engag:d in business, was well qualified to give a correct opinion on the subject. Ihe traffic between Dun dalk and Drogheda, and Dundalk and Newry, he thought was but trifling, and not sufficient without a large through going traffic to support a line. To Mr. AUSTIN—He was of opinion that the traffic between Drogheda and Portadown did not pay. The Dubl'n and Drogheda d .cl pay, but he was of opinion the traffic furthertowards Portadown wota!d not he so profitable, the passengers and agricultural produce to Le carried being considerably less. The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow at twelve o'clocl:. Group W. WAKEFIELD, PONTEFRACT, AND GOOLE RAILWAY. The Committee met today at twelve o'clock, Mr. P4kington in the chair. The first witness called was Mr. Joseph Stevenson, who was examined by Mr. Wuxi/vs—He stated that he lived at Darlington, and was engineer of the Great North of England Railway. Had examined the estimates of Mr. Harris, the engineer of the proposed line, and the prices for the different works were, in his opinion, quite ample for the due completion of the works. He had at present two lines before ParliaMent. The Great North of England (Richmond branch), and the Great North of England (Harrogate and. Ripon branch). In the estimates of both these Imes the prices were lower than those of the proposed line. In the Harrogate and Ripon branch the cost per mile was 12,2001. The facilities which the line would afford for carriage would be very great. By Mr. KNOWLES—Had all the estimates placed before him. In his judgment a 601 b. weight of rail was quite sufficient. In the Harrogate and Ripon Junction, on which he was at present en gaged, there was art additional weight of 51b. to the rail—thought that better than 601 b. By Lord SEYMOUR-It was usual to raise railways by laying cn more ballast. By Mr. KNOWLES—CouId not tell the cost of the Great North of England Railway. Was not twice as much as that of the proposed line. Thought it about 11, ss. per yard. Was a single line. He merely examined Mr. Harris's estimatz's. Did not enter into any other calculation. He thought the estimate of the Leeds and Thirsk line a very inadequate one. On Mr. KINGLAKE being about to continue the examination of this witness on behalf of the promoters, The CHAIRMAN said that he did not consider it necessary to hear any further evidence on these details. Mr. J. Thornton was next examined—Lived near Wakefield ; had been a contractor' for public works for IS years. Had con. tracts with the Midland Company, at the point where this line passes their's—also executcd seven and a half miles of the London and Birmingham line, and others. Had gone minutely into the estimates, and examined every detail. Had gone over the whole line, and some parts of it twice, and had made himself, with the assistance of two others, an estimate of the cos, and this estimate agreed with Mr. Harris's. He had contracted for the whole line. The estimate was 202,e001., exclusive of land and permanent way, materials, and contingencies, which are referred to in Mr Harris's estimate. Was satisfied that this amount would complete the works satisfac. torily. If he had not thought so ke would not have contracted for them. He had at present on the spot 200 waggons, and 400 more ready to be conveyed there. Was pledged to enter into a bond to complete the works on the event of the Bill passing. Mr. Thornton, cross-examined by Mr. KNowLes—Had contracted for works at an amount considerably less than for the work: on the proposed line. On the London and Birmingham line he had got Is. per yard for ballast, and on the present line the estimat.7.l cost was Is. 6d. a yard, On the Midland Railway he had received Is. 3d. The quantity of ballast was calculated at 190,537 yards. The CH•IRMAN again suggested the propriety of abridging this examination. He slid not see to what good purpose it could tend, as he conceived that the duty of the Committee would be chiefly directed to the consideration as to which of the two lines was most advantageous to the public interests. Messrs. Durham and Holt, land valuers, were next examine and deposed to the value of the land on the proposed tine. 1; cost per acre was estimated by them at 200/., and would be per mile. The average rental for the land varied from 14s. to GC per acre. Mr. llarday, on behalf of Mr. Smith, one of the dissentiel landowners, cross-examined this witness, and presented a petitli from other landowners who opposed the Bill, and who reser their right to appear by counsel. Mr. Leman, solicitor to the Bill, was :hen examined, and re over the names of the assentient and dissentient landowners. 'l' total dissents for the line, which was 27 miles In length, was miles, 1 furlong, and 67 yards; the assents were 15 miles; tral 2 miles, 4 furlongs, and 3 yards ; and no ar.swers 7 miles a: a quarter. Cross-examined by Mr. KNOWLES—The inhabitants of Goole were greatly in favour of this line, to the exclusion of any of the other projected lines. This closed the evidence on behalf of the promoters. Mr. WILKINS stated they were now ready to submit the case of Mr. Smith to any arbitration the Committee would appoint. Lord SEYMOUR wished to know if any attempt had been made to make an arrangement between Mr. Smith and the promoters of the Bill. Mr. Wimums said that an attempt had been made, but it wal unsuccessful. Mr. PAKINGTON, in reply to counsel, here stated that they would sit to-morrow, but in compliance with the application of Mr. Austin, they would not sit on the Derby day. Mr. AvsviN then opened his case in opposition to the Bill on behalf of Mr. Smith. He proceeded to detail the great injury that would be sustained by Mr. Smith's house and property by the proposed line. There were two railways already running close by him, and this would make a third one, so that he could not leave kis house in any direction without going under or over a railway. In fact, he was regularly inclosed in a triangle of railways. His object was not to set up a rival line, but there were two other lines which might be selected and which would afford better gradients and greater public accom modation. The other lines referred to were about half a mile distant from Mr. Smith's house. He would not detain them, but proceed to call witnesses in proof of the facts he had stated. Mr. Beckett, M.P., was then examined by Mr. HARDY la his opinion the embankment opposite to M 7. Smith's house on the proposed line would be a very serious injury to that gentle man's property. The common that was near Mr. Smith's house had a most !Harmful appearance, and this line would con.. pletely cut it up. The house was one which any gentleman of any rank might be happy to live in, and has been in the possession of Mr. Smith's family for the last 300 years. In his opinion the line between Goole and Leeds, branching off at Oakenshaw, would, be a preferable one. Cross-examined by Mr. TstmoT—The principal room of the house looked to the south-west, in the direction of the railway. The library windows to north-east. Mr. C. Wood, M.P., gave similar evidence to the last witness, and had no doubt but the insection of Mr. Smith's property by the proposed railway would be very detrimental to it. Mr. Henry Clarkson, land agent and surveyor, had examined particularly the effect which the line would have on Mr. Smith's house and lands, and considered that it would be most injuri•us. The embankment would be seen for a quarter of a mile from Mr. Smith's hall-steps and drawing.rootn windows. Mr. Birkenshaw, who had been an engineer for 15 years, gav e similar evidence. The Committee then adjourned till twelve o'clock tomorrow. Group N. CORNWALL RAILWAY On the assembling of the Committee the Counsel for the pro moters of the Bill called Sir Charles Lemon—He said he represented the western divi sion of the county of Cornwall, and was a member of the visional Committee. He was well acquainted with the geology of the county. In 1839 he prepared a paper descriptive of the copper mines, which was read before the Statistical Society in the same year. The three principal mining distriti_ of the county were St. Austel, west of Truro, and in the neighbourhood of Penzance. Those to the east of Truto are almost entirely in the neighbourhood of St. Austel. A population of 80,000 was employed in connexion with these mine , . The principle produce of the mines was copper, iron, zinc, lead. tin, granite, china stone, coal, and manganese. The Hon. Gentb man then read the quaystity of the different ores which had bee raised during the last few years, and their value. Cornwall sup. plied more than half of the ores raised in the United Kingdom. had long been desirable to have a railway like the one propose,' Various attempts had been made to effect this object—one in '36, one in '4l, and another in '43, and surveys be.: been made, all of which had been unsuccessful, and much disap pointment wasthe result. The first landowners in that part of ~ ,e county were in favour of the line. So also were the commert ia: portion of the inhabitants, who had evinced their interest in the undertaking by taking shares. The principal ores annually raised in the county of Cornwall, exclusive of iron, amounted to 191,47;t tons, the value of which was 1,291,7951.—(The Hon. Baronet here exhibited a geological map to the Committee, showing that the valleys in the county undulate from north to south.) A rail way, therefore, running from east to west would cross these valleys One valley, however, undulated in that direction, and would offer advantages for the construction of this line. Tho mas (whu, as in the case of the f N c ‘r o c r s n t wall a great quantity of agri- Cv Cornwall b line, eha hasbehalf °f petitions M r tt Sir C:Lemon, examined by Mr. R c o a w ra z against the the west o great quantity of vegetables were sent cultural produce was raised, and in earlythetta London,par t o a t n h d e s t e h a e so l t , l m a . posed line would offer great facilities for the transmissi on of such Committeenwere d n e o , aware that a great portion members the broccoli o tb s e e / C I m t o produce to London. Perhaps af ' market was from Penzance. Corn was not exported f rom P enzance. The mining districts did not grow enough to support t h e population In the mining districts, and were indebted for that produce to other portions of the country. A great quantity of corn cam e from the Isle of Wight. The north coast w as a considerable Corn-growing district. The Learned Counsel was stopped by the Committee in his cross examination of Sir Charles with respect to other railways and to ether portions of the country, and to various meetings which had been held two years ago to oppose the scheme, on the ground that their time ought not to be wasted on matters which could not in fluence their decision nor strengthen his opposition to the Bill. Examination continued —He was aware that petitions had been presented against the Bill. Those in the north were in favour, whilst those in the south were opposed to it, simply because they were desirous of having a line which would offer more accommo dation to them. Mr. George Smith, a merchant, of Cranbourn, said he was a shareholder in upwards of 30 mines in that part of the country. There were seven companies which purchased the ore in a rough state, and carried it into Wales for the purpose of undergoing the process of smelting. The ores in that part of the country were sold at Truro, Redruth, Cranbourn, &c. A railway would be a great con. veasience, as it would lessen the expense of conveyance, and save time. Agents engaged in the selling of ore were continually travelling about the country, and to them the railway would be a great convenience. He had beard it computed that from three fourths to one-half of the persons who had taken shares in the Company d.d not reside in the counts', and did not fre quently visit it, on account of the great inconvenience of transit. For the conveyance of ores and for materials used in the various mines in its vicinity, it would offer great acilities. Mr. Theophilus Mitchell, merchant,at Se Austol, and connected with mines—The population of that portion of the district, thirteen miles and a half through which the railway would run, was 36,663. There were fitly-six tin, copper, and lead mines, in cluding stream works, the annual produce of which was 35,858 tons, at a value of 159,900 1 . The total amount of annual mineral produce was also very large. The annual anuanit of importations he valued at 120,0001., ex clusive of iron. Vans were now used for the purpose of convey ing the general goods, but if a railway were constructed it would be preferred to that mod, of transit. Between Plymouth and Fal. mouth it would offer great facilities. Mr. Samuel Elliott, general merchant at Liskeard, said the value of the mines in that district was front :350,000/. to 400,000/. ; the copper raised he valued at 70,000/. ; coals, 3,000 tons ; timber used, 800 tons; and iron, 400 tons. For the conveyance of these ores, and for other articles, the railway would be most essential, and would no doubt be used. Mr. James Drew, the Mayor of Lostroithiell, and carrying on the occupation of a wine and spirit merchant there, said that the district in which he resided was an agricultural one, and that a railway would be a desideratum. Liskeard was supplied with timber from that town, which he conceived would be transmitted by the proposed line. Mr. Robinson, the chairman of Lloyd's, said it was Trost impor tant to have immediate intelligence of the arrival of ships at Ply. mouth, Falmouth, and other places. It would be of tae first im portance to the country, and to the Gove: =en', to have a direct communication from London to Falmouth ; so also would be an electrical telegraph to those towns, by which ships lying there might be communicated with on the instant. Ile said Ink in a commercial sense, not as an individual connected with t' a country through which it was proposed to carry the line. Mr. Samuel Bone, of Liskeard, holding shares in the mines of that neighbourhood, corroborated the evidence GI other witnesses as to the advantages to be derived Scorn direct communication with London, and internally by the proposed railway. Mr. W. H. Bond said he was the secretary to the Reform Club. Ile had resided at Falmouth for ten or eleven years, until June last year, and had been engaged in the mail-packet establishment there. He bad also been interested in the various railways which had been suggested in that part of the country, and had had oppor. tuoitios of judging of the advantages which the proposed railway would offer for the conveyance of goods from Plymouth and Fal mouth. The establishment of a railway there could no doubt cause the Government to re-establish the mail-packet station, which had been principally removed from the want of suck a railway es the one proposed, in the gettit:g up of which he had used great exertions. Cross-examined by Mr. Rowe—He was well-acquainted with the coast of Falmouth, which he considered safe in every respect. Vessels could not lie close to the terminus of the railway, but:this raighL be effected by the expenditure of a large sum of money. The cammunication b-tween Plymouth was cheap, and the beats ran to Southampton anti to London. He had computed in 1840 and 1841, with the as sistance of Mr. Fox, the traffic likely to go by a railway into Cornwall. Mr. Joseph Oliver, said he had been employed by Mr. Bond tc collect traffic tables. Mr. Geach, residing at Bodnim, had calculated the traffic in connexion with that town within the last three weeks. He calcu lated the number leaving the town during the sitting of the as. sizes at 13,908, two third. of which he estimated could go by the railroad. The estimates of traffic were then read, and bore out the state. ments of Mr. Austin in opening the case on the part of the pro moters of the Bill. The Committee then adjourned until Thursday. Group EF. DUNDEE AND PERTH (NORTH) RAILWAY. The Committee on this line met at the usual hour this morning, when Mr. COCKBURN, Q.C., on the part of the Scottish Midland, urged that a clause should be inserted in the Dundee and Ferth Bill, compelling that Company to keep in abeyance the subject of ter. mini, Inasmuch as a clause to that effect had been imposed on the Aberdeen and North, as well as the Scottish Central, over which an undue influence would be taken, by any other line being allowed to infringe upon - a privilege which their rivals had been denied. Mr CLARKS, on the part of the inhabitants of Perth, demanded the same imposition. It was immaterial to them which line afforded accommodation, but it was of the greatest consequence that the South Inch should not be encroached upon, and, as the question of that locality; as a terminus ha." been by another Committee re. ferred to a disinterested .tribunal, the same terms should be made binding on the Dundee and Pei lb Railway. . - Mr. TALBOT, Q.C., for the promoters, objected to this course as contradictory of the preamble of the Bill already passed by the Committee, and urged that if the question of termini were to be now raised at all, it rhould be at once fairly discussed and die - posed of. The committee decided that the evidence on the subject should be forthwith proceeded with. Group F The Commmittee re-assembled this day at twelve o'clock, in TOOlll No. 11. Present—The Right Hon. F. Shaw, Chairman; Mr. V. Stuart, Mr. Lockhart, Mr. liramston, and Mr. Drum mond. The Committee procceeled with the adjourned case of . THE LONDON, WORCESTER, AND SOUTH STAFFORD_ Sll,lltE RAILWAY Mr. John Houghton, examined by Mr. Citipps—h an exten sive farmer atSunninghill, Berkshire. Is also agent to several gentlemen in England and Ireland. Has travelled a great deal on railways. The Great Western first-class carriages were the most comfortable and commodious he had experien..ed. Had travelled on the London and Birmingham line. The Great Western was far superior in its accommodat:on. Salt was an article much used for agricultural purposes. When the proposed Oxford Extension, or Great Western line, was carried into the agricultural districts, that article would double in consumption had heard of the broad and narrow gauges ; gave the prt fet ence to the broad gauge. The traffic in salt would be very large w hen the railway it,,u'd enable it to be brought into the light soil country. At present salt was at 28i. per ton, and this was almost a prohibitory price. rte cause of this high charge was owing to the distance it had to be brought. It had to come from DroitaTch to L. tisshire and the surrounding districts, partly by railway and partly by canal. When the Great Western line cant, into use, the result wk,eld he would be s tld at it. per ton, and this would to at salt v the consumption, Mr. William Huts examined by Mr. Caiprs— Is a cl , :aler in manure and other articles connect tl with farming purpose& Re sides at• Twyford, near Reading. Attended every market since the opcnin of the Great Western Railway, and could say that that railway was the means Of increasing the business of all the dealers in agricultural produre. Chipping Norton was a very important place for a r..lway to come through. A hoe through that place would exteed its trade to _ _ _ _ a very considerable extent. Tl.e Greet Wes,crit line would enable salt to be brought from Droitwich t the farmers of the surrounding country. The speedy transit article would double the consumption. The be..t line for the mineral traders was the Great Western line. The traders of South Staffordshire were almost all of the same opinion, Mr. Bagnell examined by Mr. CRIPPS—IS s.:l extensive iron_ master at West Bromwich, near Birmin ; ham. Has six iron -works, and employs 2,000 workmen ; works 600 tons of pig.iron and 600 tons of manufactured iron per week. Prefers the Great Western scheme to that of the London and Birmingham line. Was present at a meeting of the Lonmasters of Wolverhampton, and they were unanimously in support of the Great Western line. Did not send lion by the London and Birmingham line ; the charges were too high, and the tonnage excessive. Great advantage would arise to the merchants by a com peting line to the iron districts. Would not bo standing there if he was not of *pinion that a competing line would be of great advantage to the iron and coal-masters. It would make the companies more civil, and ensure cheapness and expedition in the transit of goods. The CHAIRMAN—Do you think that when the parties got their line they would be as civil as they are now Witness—l think the Great, Western Company would be as civil. Mr. Bayley, examined by Mr. CRIPPS—Is a chcmiat residing at Wolverhampton. Costs him GOO/. per annum for the carriage of goods on railway and canals. Found the charges very high on the London and Birmingham line. Contracts with that line. Com petition was necessary to bring down the rate of charge. Mr. G. England, examined by Mr. KINGLAIKE maltster at Wolverhampton. The Great Western line would bring down the rate of carriage on 60,000 quarters of wheat, at the rate of twenty miles annually; that is, there would not be that amount in ratio to pay after the reduction which would be caused by competition The Rev. H. Cartw r i g ht exam i ned b y M r . C arrra —l s vicar of Dudley, and also a magistrate of Worcester. A large meeting was held in the latter place last September, in favour of the Great Western line. Was himself in favour of that line, because it was adapted to the waste of that part of the country. It gives greater accommodation north and south than the London and Birmingham line. Mr. Paul Matthews, examined by Mr. KINGLAKE—is a large brick manufacturer, at Stourbridge; manufactures about 30,000 tons of clay annually. There are other large manufacturers of the same article in the n&ghbourhooe. There were in some of the districts 1,650 tons of bricks, which would go on the Great Western line, and only 5,040 tons on the London and Bir nsi nghana. Mr. G. Hickman, examined by Mr. COCKISURN—IS a eualowner at Worsely. The Great Western line was the beat adapted for the coal trade. The large trucks of the broad gauge would prevent the coals being broken up, as they would not have to be piled up so high as they were in the narrow gauge trues, Mr. J. Hill, examined by Mr. Cur • IiCRIV—IS town-clerk at Worcester. Some time ago there was a line projected for the South Staffordshire district; this was in 1841, but mom y being very scarce the scheme was not taken up. Subsequent to that date the• Board of Trade issued a Commission to inquire into the best line for the South Staffordshire districts, and they adopted the line which had been abandonec. The present Great Western scheme comprised that line. Ther e was a meeting held at Worcester I , st September, it was called by the Mayor, and there were but five hands held up against the Great Western scheme; those persons have since joined in support of it. It was decidedly the best line for the accnnmodation of the South Staffordshire cFstricts. Mr. Alderman Evans, examined by Mr. COCCBI ax—The Great Western line was the best for the mineral traffic of the South Staffordshire districts. it was the best rim for the transit of goods going north and soutli. _ The Speaker being announced at prayers, the Committee adjourned. Group A and T thheeCfoOThm,wititenge Bimet lls t w o- e d r a e y r ,: f n er t r h ed e V: ) c th t:n m in : sler Sessions Hou se . Central Kent. London, Chatham, and North Kent. London and Croydon (Chatham to Chilhana). London and Croydon (Chatham to Graveesend). London and Croydon Eolargoncnt. London and Croydon (Orpington Branch). London and Croydon (Maidstone, Ashford, and Tunbridge;. South-Eastern (Ashford to Hastings). South-Eastern (Branch to Deal and Extension of be South-Eastern. Canterbury. Ramsgate, and Margate Railway). South-Eavern (Hungei ford Bridge to Chi'ham, with branches). South-Eastern (Lewisham to Tunbridge and l'edduck Wood). South-Eastern (Maidstone to Rochester). South-Eastern (Tunbridge to Tunbridge Wells). South-Eastern (Widening and Extension of the London and Greenwich Railway). South-Eastern (Headcoin and Rye). Brighton, Lewes., kitsi Hastings (Hastings, Rye, and Ashford Ex tension). Rye and Tenterden. Kentish Cr,ast. Gravese;►d and Rnchebter Lond'A and Greenwich. Numerous petitions were presentee!, and the required appear ances were entered against each of the above, except the Brighton, Lewes, and Hastings (Keymer Branch), and the Landon arti Greenwich, which were unopposed. Mr. Rastrick, the engineer, and other witnesses, were examined. to prove the engineering capabilities of the Kepner Branch line. BRIGHTON, &e. (KEYMER EXTENSION.) The preamble was agreed to, and the• clauses of the Bill having been gone through, the Committee decided to report it to the House. _ LONDON AND GREENWICH RAILWA Y. The Bill for enabling this Company to lease their railway WAS gone through without opposition, and the Committee agreed to report it to the House. LONDON, CHATHAM, AND NORTH KENT RAILWAY. Mr. Sergeant WRANGttaN, for the promoters of this Bill, then