The Sun. — London, England, 1803-05-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PAR L I.IIMENI. HOUSE OF PEERS. TUESDAY, MAY 3. Counsel were heard in continuation ,relative.to the Scotch Appeal, Macpherion and Others, Creditors of the late Sir Samuel Hannay, Bart. v. Ramsay Hannay,. Esq. viz. Mr. H. Eau(' Ns at considerable length, as leading CrnittScl for the Respondent 4 after which their Lordships; deferred the further hearing till Thursday. The. Earl of FIR It 111.3,. and Lords HAWKE and &I "r 0 N, were sworn, and took their Seats. Several Bills of a private or local , description were brought up from the Commons by Messrs. R. D u 3, BALDWIN, Ossottirt, and others, among which, was the Glasgow Theatre Bill : thcie were severally read a first time. Mr. IR v t N a, Inspedor General of the CUStoS, presented . several Documents relative to the Exports Customs, and Imports, our suant to a recent Motion of Lord'AuciA4Ns,.,which were laid upon the Table. Mr. OWEN from the Diredors of the gast India Company presented certain Accounts, direded to be annual?) , laid be fore Parliament. . The Order of the Day for the riecond reading of the Bank of Ireland Restridion Biil being read, and on the Question being put that the Bill be, now read a second time, Lord KING rose, and in a Speech of some length, fraught with Financial calculation andtietail, de. livered Ms sentiments Upon the . measure before the House, and upon the important subjeds conned td with lie. In discussing these, however, he ob. served, he should, though- in a general view of them they might bear a more comprehensive scope,' confine himself to these points which more imme diately concerned Ireland. The Nitble 'Lord' iet our with observing the very great increase of Bank of Ireland small Notes in cite'ulation, which . within a comparatively short space of' time hail in. creased more than foUr.fold, and which considers. tion should operate upon their Lordships' 'minds with resped to. the great discretionary powers which the present Bill continued to vest in. the Ditedors of 'the Bank of Ireland. lie was aware, that 'in defence of the measure much stress would he laid on the utility of COuntty Rank'., the great assistance afforded them by the National Bank, &c.; but with respell to Ireland, a part of this argu. ment would not hold good, for it was well known that Country Banks had riot increased e of late years in that Country,- which was chiefly to be attri buted to the unfortunate situation in which that Island had for a long time, been plunged. In con ' sidering this part of the subjed, his Lordship adverted to the large issue of, small Notes, as for s:seven anti ten shillings, &c, and to the eft eds pro. duct(' by such a circulation, and alluded to one ad-, vantage which private Banks possessed over those grounded upon extensive public iostitutions, name ly, the far greater control they poisessed with - reaped to false and fabricated Notes. To a Cer.._ lain txtent, he admitted that the competition' pro. duced by a number of Country Banks was of public utility ; and he adverted to a circumstance, which he said refleCted honour 'Upon them, namely, their continuing to pay in specie for a considerable time after the prohibitory order was issued in 1797. Their : Lordships would be aware of the exorbitant abuse of the discretionary power vested in - the Bank Diredors of Ireland, when they comemplatsd the excessive increase in the issue of small Notes, and Which was a sufficient, reason, that in 1,80 , the course of the exchange should ()eye ,per 'cent. against Ireland, a circumstance which he regarded as singular in the history of Commerce ; ; and specie, lie observed, had in a great measure' disappeared in the Southern . parts of Ireland.' The .Diredurs had perverted their discretionary powers .to . ends of private advantage; he neeant the Prop ietnreof the Bank Stock, which was ad tantaged to the public detriment. He contrasted the large issues made by the Bank of .Ireland' with those, 'of 'the Bank of Englend, within regiven,period; and he contend. :ea, that it would' he impolitic an,l improper to. vest in future - such a discretionary power in the Bank of Ireland Direttors, .after they had seen the nature and tendency of eheir former condud. He bad -it in -contemplation to pro. pose a Clause to- be introduced into the which in its effed would in some meau . re doaway the nauseous parts of it the °Ned of tins would he, to oblige the 41ank of Itelarni DireaOts, :after a given:period, suppose six months, to ivy ib Bank of England Notes, which would have the'cfled of placing the Bank of- Ireland,' to a'certain degree, • in the same situation as that of England was before The suspension of pay ments in specie. 1 ie arg tied, that such a regulation. would be attended with no fats, and he expatiated upon the itripropriety of Vesting in the Bank of Ireland power of depre. dating the standard of the currency Of that Country. - He, thought the case - at best ail exireme 'one, and e were Parliament called upon to at stn, with respell to the Bank of Englend, it would cerestinly refuse the interference,; He knew norwhetleSr the present was the regularstage for proposing .. sueli 'a Clause, but whenever it . could he ee reduced jot° 'the lie most seriously recomMended . that . ' Lord ,hies to adopt it. The Earl of LIMERICK made a very able end • :spirited answer to this 'observations, of 'the. Nihle Lord. In a sticed) . replete with calculation anti at egumentative..deteil, he conteiatt4 'that the Direc. tors of the Think of Ireland were driven by neces.. . , , stty, and from step to step, to increase the issue of their small Notes, and that the - protrosed remedy, iostead of removing, would 4)14 aggravate'whet. ever unavoidable evils might exiSt. Towards' the close of 1790 it was a part of-the'plan of a set of desperate and ambitious .Conspirators,-wha plunged their Country into rebellion, to palsy, by every means in their power, the exertions suer credit of the Bank of Ireland; a very eor6ideeable issue of small Notes was the ne , ulr-of-their nischinetiods.— }le contended thet the reedit arid - security Of the Bank of Ireland was made stronger titan ever—it :had withstood 'tlie shocks of; Rebellion, Invasion, and of untoward event,,, from a variety of other causes. Ile expatiated at length opt the various causes of the unfavourable course of. E against Ireland, which however.he to the degree laid dewn the Noble, teed ; the Chief of these he stated to arise (corn the eir;:4lS of the-Rebellion, the Inteieseof Debt ro.itted to this Country, and to the increased - Araiof , of Absentees, These \fallouts positiens were , established, by the Noble Earl by calculations and details draWn from official documents, &c. He concluded by strongly recommending i► to their Lordships to accede to , ilie Rill before them. Lord AUCKLAND, in a short but argUmentAtive speech, supported >everal plate leading poii ts'atll. vanced by the Noble Earl. -- . The Marquis of SLIGO shortly defended the .eha.. fader and copdul• of the Dire fors of the Bank of Ireland.. . The Earl of LIMERICK and Lord KING said each a few wouis in exp!anatitin, after which the Bill was read a second rune, and committed for Thurs. day. The Insolvent Debtors Bill, after a few words' from the Earl of Mar RA I Was read a second time, and committed for Friday. Some tontine business was then disposed of, and their Lordshipi adjogrnecl till to.morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. TUESDAY, MAY 3. A Message from the - Lords stated, that they had agreed to the Irish Revenue Bill, the inn-keepers' Subsistence Bill, and to several private Bills. Mr. HAWKINS BROWNS moved the Order of the as) , for the third Reading of the - Nottingham Elretion Bill. Mr. FOX said, the Ugh he had stated his objec. tions at some length on a former everting to the Bill before the House, yet he thought it his duty now to address the House on the same subject. ' 4 ' The Bill now the`subjetf of discussion, wateof se rious consequence to the Kingdom, as it went to . undermine the ancient LaW of the Country, and give an improper power into the hands of Govern merle: he therefore wished the House to give the Bill due consideration before it was suffered to pass into a Law. , Much had been said of the lenity Which hid. been shewn to the. Magistrates by the • present measure, but he thought there was no lenity in taking a man's charader away, when no charge h - ad been made against him. This was exactly the Case with respect to the Mayor and Magistrates' of Nottilcgliani ; they have been abused, but : n othing has been offeted to prove that' they were guilty - of any 'offence : they have challenged the Comtnittee to come forward and accuse them of improper Con duet, but the challenge has not been accepted ; it . was therefore ottretneir. improper to destroy the repu:atiort of the Magistrates; without givi n g t o the House some . proof of their gear, 1-k did tint _ mean 'to doubt but much disturbance had taken place in the Town of Nottingham ; the Resolu.: tions, however, did not go so: far as to prove, in ans ., way, that the Magistrates . had wilfully con. hived at the evil complained of. If the Honour able Gentlemen who had brought this Bill ipso the House were satisfied that the Magistrates were guilty of any wrong, why not bring those Gentle men before a Court of Justice ? The Magistrates: have repeatedly solicited to have their condud canvassed in a Cowl of Law, but a species . .of. lenity has been shewn them, that has gone ,to de. stray their peace of mind and character. These Gentleinen, by the present Bill, were to ace count for the Riots Which took place, not only at the late Elediott, but, for these ten years past ; he considered it -a dangerous principle to be acted upon, and ought not to receive the Vote of the House. Agreeable to the Meaning of this Bill, whenever , an Inhabitant is inclined to •find fault with tht condutt of a Magistrate, he, in con. jurtdion with a Party,' may increase tlie number o f Magistrates till there i s no en d to them, andtin a • few years half the men ,in the County will be chosen Magistrates, under the idea of looking over each other ; this certainly was contrary to the ancient Law of the C.otintry. It is a charaderistic feature Of .the perfation of the British.Conslitution, that Magistrates should be under the nomination of the Crown : no increase was Made to -the number of Magistrates in the City Of London in Consequence of the. riot's which took :place in the year 1780, but he was ready to allow there had been au in. 'Crease 'of Magistrates in the City and Liberty he had the honour to represent ; and he was proud to say, that the Magistrates of. Westminster had been flighty "useful to the Inhabitaots,; If the riots at Nottingham had been mentioned at the ; time the riots,ot loodon and Birmingham had taken place, little indeed would have.been thought of the cum; plaint, lie must again'repeat, it the Magistrates were guilty, there was" riot an inch of ground for them to stand on ; but they had challenged a pro. • secution, they had solicited their opponents' to pro ceed against them, as they knew a.Court of Justice would send them into society free from disgrace: As he had mentioned the name of Mr. C OKE re . pettedly in the course of the debates on the present Bill, lie thought it necessaryto say, he never- knew a man of 'a better private cherader than that:Gentle. .'man. It was almost unnecessary to mention the great difference of opinion which has lung existed at Nettiugham with resped to'Politics : he, how., ever, would say, if the present Bill passed' into a law, it would be in favdur,.of Mr. COK.E, It had been said, thit the power of concurrent Magistrates would be only called in on extraordinary occasions; but he would ask the:House, whether a man, having been once nominated a Magistrate, would-nor, ac-, 'cording to the state of human - nature, -take upon him all the authority of his office ? and then his power : would be a compound of duty and interest; 'therefore the Hon. Gentleman saying, that the assistant duty of the Magistrates was required dur ing a .;lot, was absurd. Notwithstanding ail that :had been said with respect to the Magistrates of Nottingham, he would ask, whether, the judicial i i ow ei o f Nottingham was worse than in any other Town ?—:-.!He knew it was not. Mr. COKE brought ' it Bill 'into FariiaMent Some years age, to carry the causes ftmn the Sessions of ,the Town of Not ringharn id the County, but no, man had thought ,proper to avail himseit I.lw to. this day:' The present Magistrates were .nor only to 'suffer for the riots of the LISt Eledt.ioo, hut for all pre vious disturbances, such as pulling t I OWn houses, ittills, tie. All these offences had been stated in a very ingenious way to attach blame to the present 'Magistiates., Fox: then produced a iiatttpltiet, and read several passages from it, wine') weet to Slice . , Iliac it the Bill passed, it'would -Operate. as a rtniishment on the present Kigistrates' l by the (n.tal,iishment of a concurient .jerisditlitin of tlle , Comity Kagisti4tes i though it ditrpot debtroy 1 their present power. He said he should !rouble the House but a minute or two longer, in observing he had.no objeaion to the increase of the number _of Magistrates, if there was an alteration in the manner of electing them; the prtsent method he could never submit to. BOND • said, that what had ken before rsaid on the Bill, rendered it unnecessary for,him to go at- length.into its merits; but he-could. not but express-his surprise, that the last Hcn. Gentleman should have said last night, when the Bill was in a Committee, that he had no ohjedion to-the Bill i~~if his Amendment was acceded to by the Commit- Htee,.and to bear him now, in the mnst energetic lan. guage, .reprobate the whole of the Bill ; he thought the' Hon. Gentleman a little inconsistent in his con. dua. The Bill went, in his' mind, to prevent fuiiire riots in the town arid county of Nottingham, which must be the object of every man.'s wish who was ac.! quainted with the wickedness which-had taken_ place in that town and county. Now the. clause which the :Hon. Gentleman had proposed, -went to give pottier to persons after a riot had taken place ; this he thought very inconsistent, and not of all calculated to be of service to the inhabitants of Nottingham. The Hon. Gentleman had used many strong words to weaken the Bill with the HOuse, but he had to obkrve, that no threats should prevent him from ,doing his duty. • He thought it would be extremely wrong to wait for riot before the inhabitants nomi. nated Magistrates to put a stop to it, and.therefore the Hon. Gentleman's Ainendment could not he ap proved of. The Learned Gentleman (Serjeant LENA who addressed the House on the merits of the pre.' sent Bill , had stated that the measure had been concluded in a very lenient way to the Mayor and Magistrates, and that much blame certainly attached to them ; he should therefore give his decided •opinion in favour Of the Bill. • Mr.' GREY said, that the Hon. Gentleman had not answered. the arguments of his -lion.. Friend, but he had ventured to make bold assertions t he did not recollea that the Learned Counsel had, •in his address to the House, said, that the Magistrates' were guilty of Wilful neglea of duty, and he. thOught it was contrary to the custom of the House to refer to • any former debates.—- If he was permitted to recur to what had been said oik a farmer Debate, he was sure his Hun. Friend had not approved of the principle of the Bill, as ft had been s.lid : on the contrary, •he had reprobated ihe'whole of the Bill ; but finding. that it had the support of , the House, -it WaS his wish 'that an Amendment he proposed, should:be adopted, in 'or der to -make it less objedionable ;. he, however, would not trespass on the time of the House peating his Hon. Friend's arguments; but he thought they had been perverted. in a most unjus.. tifiable manner. The ATTORNEY.GENERAL expressed his stir. prize, that the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fox) should have opposed the Bill, after he had proposed an Amendment yesterday in the Committee ; the Ho nourable Gentleman then gave a statement of the faits whin took place in the Town and County of Nottingham, and observed, that the present Bill was btought into the House, from a cony* tion, that the Magistrates had not done their duty, and he assured the House, that lie would not have given his support to the Bill if he had not been . .sati,fied'rthe Magistrates had not done their duty. It was therefore necessary that some measure should he adopted, to keep the peace of the Town and CoOnty ,of Nottingham, and ensure the Freedom of Election. He could not approve °ldle conduct of the Magistates and returning Officer, notwithstand. ing ail that had been said in favour of them; and it had been pretty clearly proved, that they had not taken any effedual means to suppress the riots. If the Magistrates had made use of all their civil power, and that would not do, he had no hesitation in say. ing, that they ought to have called in the military to their assistance ; and he was sure the Re. turning Officer would not have been' censured for seeing the peace of the town kept during- a• fair and legal. Ele&ion ; and the House of Commons would pause had the business come before them, ere, they would censure the Returning Officer for doing all . he could to support the, Freedom of Elec. tion, and keep the Peace 'of the Inhabitants. An Him. Member opposite to him had said, that the Judges had bestowed great praise on the order and regularity of the Town of Nottingham, but it must be recolleCted that was upwatds of eighteen years ago, and, therefore, the encomiums of the then ex. isting Judges could have no weight with the House-' now. It was necessary, in order to prevent riot,. that the Magistrates thonkl be known, that appear anc'e and power should have some effed with a mob ; under. all the circumstances of the case he should not trouble the 'House any longer, as much hat! been 'said with- respect to the present question, but he thought it highly necessary that the Bill should 'pass, the Mouse, in order to support the Freedom of Elec. tion, and the Peace of the Inhabitants. ,Mr cur explained. .1 - k said, he AU n.ot vert to the Hon. Gentleman having quoted the ar. guments made use of on a forrner . day, but Cm; his having: quoted particular words pupposed to have' been used on a torrner day ; ,and that he tOck:the 'liberty of regarding as a praClice, whiCh, if follow_ ed up in othertases, might be attended with many difficul:ies in debate, and sortie other serious incon.l veniencies in the discussions of that House. Air. 'FOX explained also upon the subjel of 'his having .proposed, yesterday, to alter a ehiuse of this in a Committee of the whole House. - tie said, lle thought this-a bad measure; he had therefore en. deavoured to alter it, so, as, to make it less bad,;: but that did .not imply any approbation of any part. ()fit, any more than if n Land.tax Ripl of four Soil: Bugs in the pound were now proposed, andite were to propose in a Committee to-have. two shillings, in. stead' of four, inserted in the- Lill; be could riot be ;kaki to be a friend to the fill irsea - -,,Ase proposed r as a lesser evil than that of the original Bill. As to his. having observed, that the'ttiwn of Tutting. ham had been recommended-on account,of the Iran wnich had beenapproved of by ts'o Learn. j,„f ges , the . HOn. Gentleman who ttad taken' no. of ts, had,very much misapprehended his mean. Fie did riot quote it as an extraordinary case, -merely „naccnnnt of. the ' absence o f a Ri ot, hut he stated it to 'spew the:Policoand general good go. its present N un i c i i vernwent t 4 `fawn under • —and he Lid 4.c....lroparlied it with an ob. Authority servaiinn of a general nature, namely, that there were ,fewer Crimes in the .town of Nottingham , than many others of which no complaint had beers made: this sheweti the purity of the general admi. nistration of justice in that Town ; and the ohscr. vations of the Learned judges, to whom he had re . ferred, fairly bore that interpretation, and he thought the manner in which that subject was naw treated, by Gentlemen on the other side of the - House, full as hard on the Learned Judges, a: , they, could be on him. With regard to certain Officers, who had been alluded to in the course of this De. ' bate, he did not say one we on them, because there was nothing concerning them its the present Bill. As to any accusation that could be made against the Magistrates for not bringingin the Mi iitaty, that was best answered by the fact—thei did bring in the Military. Mr. 171?ANICLAKD said, he should suppose that if a tax was proposed of four shillings the pound, and two_ shillings in the. pound was pro posed instead of it, such an Amendment might be made by a perion whO thought if he could not oppose the Bill altogether successfully, yet would wish to. render it less objectionable; but he had no concep. 'ion of that sort of Amendment, which, under pre ence of lessening.a supposed evil, introduced index peadent matter, that was of itself a greater evil than that which it affected to diminish, and this be considered be the nature .oftheaktnentirnent rea comaneotied yesterday, by the Hon. Gentleman who , hati :lost 'sat down IF (Mr. Fax). gener a l ncro.l 011- jeCtion to thii Bill was, that it m i g ht become a Pre' - cadent, - which might be followed un, and made it last to affea every Borough in the Kingdom a• upon ‘which, he confessed, he had no apprehensions -what" ever ; the Riots of the town of Nottingham were the foundation ofthis—they were not like the R ic " of other places, for they were become- habitat Riots, :mtl required a remedy like the present. I'o'd - GEORGE' C APENDISH said, he t hought that the Question now before the House was a very important one, no-less than this, whether t he Iree . dem of EleCticin of the ToWn of Nottingham should be continued ? He disapproved of the Riots which had taken place in that Town, but he thoug ht nO ground was laid for so stronka measure as the p re.. sent, which was 'that of altering the juriscliationot the Magistracy of the Town. He thought there should 'have been laid before the House 'Audi fur thee proofs of 'the necessity of stiella assure as this, before it was adopted by the House., Ho wag himself an Eleftor of Nottingham, but he had 'never exercised his Franchise, nor did he oppose .this mesa sure from any personal considerations of any. mina whatever. He looked upon the Right of Eleainn as a very serious matter, anti not to be altered bats .upon the . most absolute necessity , suc h as, in thi case did not app :he thought innovation in' t hose; p • matters very dangerous. . Mr. ROSE said, . that if this B ill was founded on • - a•ntere Riot happening once at. Nottingham. h' should have thought it ,prudent to have deliberat ed afttxi deal—but that was not the case, fur it alos air merely. on the last Riot at Nottingham that Bill was founded, but on a proof of a system ", rioting, and that proof came,before the Conirnit t 3 on the cross.eXarnmation of the Wit noses . ion behalf of the Petitioner, when it a ppeocto j ot - as a sort of justification of the Riot at the Elation for Nottingham, that what then h i P r there, was not new- Gentlemen seemed ta 5 1," " God bless us! Riots at :Nottinghant ! W h r at aa t you complain of ? We will shew you that. thii new —there never was an 'Elation at Nottinguaol Without a Riot—it is not confined to the Eie6b:ra of Members to serve in Parliament, but it happ ens . the Election of every Municipal NI P l ' 4 3 ; and even on oocasions when there is no Elgl ic ' n 'all, and in some of which men have lost their lives•o This was the species of apology that had been, ' it . up for the late riots at Note h by wh ic3 t; mg am, d gal appe . ared there Was a ,regular system forme carried into effeit, to punish - every person the prevailing party did not like; and th a t PP' lll ,„ nient was infliEted on them by burning their Pf;:a perty, de s troying their cattle, and infltaing ev ; ha species of cruelty that was pthaicahle bY r e rioters ; for which reasons he was convinced' the were abundant grounds for the interference ofr,r) liament. An Honourable Gentleman (Mr. had said, that this was not a proper remedy, i, n ` ~,: .objeaed to giving the additional powei' oft nN i . ference, to Magistrates appointed by the Crow' ' ,now this was the very thing which, in his opini n t r :'; recommended the. Bill most. He did not like the mode of chusing the present. Magistrates of t o, Town of Nottingham, because. they wer e se a l eleCted Magistrates---they eletted each other ; e l ' ej ; when he saw a Bench of Magistrates who Cl each other, incapable, 'or unwilling, to preset:v e x : f a, _peace of a populous Tow n , he could have nn t u i „ r . culty in agreeing to some remedy to that evi" that remedy was not to consist of a ppoioriag Magistrates of the smile Licitaipae,,, l'"`m„. .hesitation in saying, that the conduct of Iva gistrates at the last Eleaion for the ID it of Nottingham, was highly culpable, Or ant appeared, that men came to, the Booth '1"/°° id, an halter at one of the 'Candidates, ar il " 111 had you at another place, you should ,so rm death by this.," and that very man aft erv" re s, sat down by the side of one of It• appeared also, that men sat on the top Booth, and gave notice to others stationed at ?.' alto _ranee, to observe their signals, to insult, In fit most cruel mamitr, all those. who did n atant e 00 their favourite; and all' this was followed 01-'a na , the part of• the Magistrates,. by merely saY i l ie b ra '' Gentlemen, all this is extremely w rong,isn d „ I dio t was no instance: of the Magistrates doing !heir iat i ra the Magistraf the properly. The Military were called in, but " a r _ A d e Law • Sheriffhatl suspended the Elation during -au_ ,bey there would have been 'an end Of the 1t1° 1 ,.. o f cause then there would have been an coripc det . ef t ; io the object •of the Riora The - lion. Gent.".% i i r t (Mr. Fox), in his explanation, had saidathat not mean that the Learned. judge took notice otlvio good Government - of the T own of N ot t ingl o4 , e one instance, but.that he gave the Town hut this general good government of oat there, koeW, to the reproach of a Magistrate a judge's Warrant was once sent there, 1 , 0: t pose of apprehending a Rioler, and a mifs" , it as evidence ot,,.‘i;c