The Sun. — London, England, 1803-07-23 00:00:00

THE 4t. 04i. a , :y -, •ir , t"' t fi a . ‘li.‘ % P ' / • .41 . • *.e(" 7 .4..., ..... , t . IA --,-"`, • ' . . 'V. IW V 44 _...,_,---.. ~. • . ,g.,.. 5 : - zi:-.- . -- - - . 1y5 ;,,.,: ..,:2*.: Vlr N ....". ........... ~..„...,..,.. , i') Ot t * . `.... . .• • , 11).' V , k . 4i" i i :~;~'~•, ‘ .Z . . 3. )4a. T i t ejl(i •;'• i, l':.; . V.' . • NILABER 3384.] IAIPERIAL PARLIztiVIEIVT. HOUSE OF PEERS, FRIDAY, JULY 22. Tilt various Bills betUre the House were forwarded in their respective stages. Sir C. M. Pu►.v and others brought up from the Com- Mons the Longitude Bill, akd the Chatham Chest Bill, which were both severally read a first time. The Glasgow Theatre 'Bill was referred to a.Corrunitteo above stairs. Atter disposing of some private business their Lordships adjourned t►ll Halt past Two to-morrow, INCISE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, JULY 22. A 141tiCSAGT from the' Lords stated, that their Lordships had agreed to the Thames Police Bill, without any amend ment. SirCita* tes Burnet:ay presented a Petition from the Debtors in the County Gaol of Suffolk, praying relief.—Or. dered to lie on the Table. The House went into a Committee to consider of the Bill relative to the-Exportation of Tea:to Ireland. the House resuming, the Report was ordered to be received on Monday. next. The House went into a Committee on the Duties on Quassia, when it was agreed by the Committee, that an ad ditional Duty of al. tbs. per cwt. should be laid on that ar ticle. On the Motion of the. Cu.ernett,toe of the Exernetzuee, the House went into a Committee on His Majesty's Message of Novembers last, with respect to the Commerce at London. 7he CHANCE LtOR of the EXCHEQUER then called the attention of the Committee to the nature of the subjeet, on which he observed, that by the 13111 for Bonding and Ware housing different articles in the Port of London, these articles should consist of five different classes, such as Sugar, Drugs, heavy articles, &c. but he had to observe, it was pc. cessary to deliver many articles to the owners, which would be done on security being given to the Revenue for the pay. silent of the Doty. The Right Honourable Gentleman also informed the Committee, that the Bill in question fettered the Power of the Treasury from all piejudice in favour of parties, therefore the Lords of the 'Treasury will not have the power to grant a Licence to the Ports of' this Kingdom without the permission of the Privy Council. He thought the principle of the measure. would not be ob tCted to b y the Lonunittee, as it wo u ld on l y app l y, to t h e ort of London, and all Licences to the other Ports will be granted by the Privy Council. lie should therefore conclude by Moving, that the Goods stated in the Bill should not be Imported into the London Ports without permission. tieneral GA sco Yn a: expressed his wish that' the Bill bad been brought in earlier in the Session, yet he did not mean to objet} to the measure. After a few remarks from Sir W. E r.roe e, Mr. VA es Iy. TART, General TAKE.LToN, slid Mr. Flu - rent so rit the C HANCRI.LoR of the F.x en sot) ea. observed, that it was not the intention of Government to extend this Bill to Ireland. Me. P'4N.s/TT/IRT said, it was the intention of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer for Ireland to bring before the House a Measure of the same nature for that Country. The House then resumed, the Report was brought tip s 4 and the Resolutions read and aereed to. On the props sition of the Crt tees Lame of the EXC IiKQO Lk, the Bill was brought in, all o w i ng a n i n t erva l o f s i x days for its fair. tiler progress. The Report of the Scotch Cotton Weavers' Bill was brought up, the Amendments read and agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be engrossed. The house went into a Committee of the whole House on the Irishjustices' Bill, after which the House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be received on Monday. The House went into a Committee of the whole House on the Prize Goods Bill ; the House resumed, and the Repore was ordered to be received on Monday next. The House went into a Committee on the Irish Militia Fa. rniltes' Bill, anti the Report was ordered to be received on Monday next. The Committees of Supply and Ways and Means, were postponed to. Monday next. Mr. A ex N exit brought up a Report of the Committee on the Northern Light House B i ll ; i n consequence of which, the Bill was ordered to be brought in. The Bell-Rock Light-House Bill was brought in and read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday next. The Staeß v.r AR v at "An moved for leave Wiring in a Bill to amend the Scotch Additional Force Bill—Leave grantetL The justices' Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Tuesday next. The Report of the Volunteer Corps Bill was brought up ; the Amendments were read and agreed to, and the Bill order. ed to be read alhird time on Monday next. The SECRETARY at WAX moved the third reading of the National Defence Bill: he then proposed several verbal alterations in different clauses of the Bill ; those worth public notice are the following :•-•-'l'lle clause which appoints Sunday fur training Volunteers, received the alteration of " before or after divine service." • It was also proposed and agreed to, that any per son having two places of residence, shall give notice to the Parish where he has been enrolled. It was proposed and agreed to, that all persons guilty of misentklutt, , should be soiled to a fine of ss..or imprisonment not exceeding one month, as ordered by the Lieuienant or Magistrate before whom the offending party might be taken. On the Clause being proposed and read for se. curing the Rights and Privileges of the City of London, • Alderman COIIIIIE rose, and assured the House 14hat there was not one man in the City of London who would not come forward fur the protettion of the Country : the Hon. Gentleman highly cotnpli "tc"ted the spirit and zea l o f t h e Citizens, who ma nifested tidily a desire to b e organ i ze d f or the pro of the liberty and happiness of the Nation. T he Clause was then read anti agreed to. here was a clause proposed and agreed to, to ex ' the the attendance of persons whose religious scruples will not permit their attendance on a Sunday for training; it however provides, that these persons shall attend on another day, but without Pay. Mr. IPILBERFORQE said he had no objeaion to Sunday u s a day of necessity and convenience, y e t , if it was possible, he wished it to be under "nod, that nothing but - the necessity of the case allowed the day to such business. It Was however Proper _that an indulgence should be shewn to those per3ons who had religious scruples. The SacarrAtty at WAR proposed a clause which way agreed to, giving power to the Warden 1.4 the Cinqu e Ports, to put in force the provisions of the Att. Put..rtriey proposed an amendment to the cluuse which allows pay to tire Volunteers. i.ord Les I'4 tt thought' that the pay should iki,e only who were poor ; but that Huzst Lud he l e f t • tn. the wisdom and d n iscretio of the r 44 to the nattirc of the pay. SATURDA Y, JULY 23, 1803. Sir. W. PULTENEY explained. Mr. Kf N 14.11 R D said a few words. Mr. .P ITT observed, that a shilling a day was. not equal to the day's work of a labourer, if the whole day, or even halt a day was given to train ing, it was therefore necessary that the husbaind man should get through his exercise, as soon as possible, in order to get home to his daily employ. Mr. WYNDHAM concurred with the Right Hon. Gentleman, Mr. PITT: The Clauses and the Amendments were then agreed to. , On the question, that this Bill do pass e Cal. C R A WFO R D said,, he was convinced of the necessity of this measure, and also ofour having a very large Army at this momentous crisis. He had former ly delivered his opinion on the necessity ofour having a large Regular Force, and he was now about to de liver his opinion again upon our Military situation. There was no person in that House who was more fully ,convinced than he was, that the Government of this ,Country never did - propose, nor did the Parliament ever adopt a measure better adapted than this for the purpose for which it was intended. He thought this measure wisely adapted to meet an in. vasion, but he thought that forcible as this measure might be, something more ought to be done ;we ought to be placed in a situation, that if the whole world was' to attack us we might be able to defend ourselves, and we might be placed in that situation; that vas his opinion, and he had expressed it be fore ; he confessed he wished to see the whole mass of the male population of this Country in arms, and with some measures which he should submit to the consideration of the House, he was• convinced that if the whole world were to attack us, we should not be subdued. The points to which he alluded he attached great importance to. He approved of this Bill entirely, and he thought the Right Hon. Gentleman who brought it forward' had a great claim upon the gratitude of his Country. This Bill was a seal to the ads of the Right Hon.Gentleinan's labours in the service of his Country, to the tote. yetres htsoefcwouhlidcl not o lit help ewas absorbed in his attention ; but be done towards saying there was much yet to putting this Country in a state of petted security. He did nut mean to speak a• lan guagewas it with that waonuyldwish raise ta a e n x y groundless alarm, nor to perform wh a t a pp eare d to him our to be weakness, h isuty but by apprizing the House of that which appeared to him to be the danger to which we were exposed. In doing this he should be under the necessity of justi. fying what he had said on a former. occasion, al. though it had been called, and might be called des ponding language, but himielf, and others who were accused with having held that language, were misrepresented. He thought that at the time, and under the circumstances, the Peace of Amiens was welt concluded, and that Ministers deserved the gratitude of their Country for" that endeavour to procure the blessings of Peace; hut he was con. vinced we must not make another peace until some reparation was made for their intolerable insolence, as well as security against the repetition of it; but we must not look for any thing of this kind until we had convinced the world that we , had nothing to fear from an Invasion: He subscribed to every thing which had been said, and indeed it had been said with an eloquence which it was impossible to de. scribe, by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite to him (Mr. PITT), he subscribed - to it entirely . ; he was delighted with it, and he thought it impossible for any human effort to go beyond it : but he must still say, that although that Right:Hon. Gentleman had praised this measure so highly, yet without s ome measures besides this, we should continee to b e in 0 state of comparative weakness; and he must b e permitted to say, he sincerely lamented that more pro mpt anti decisive measures had 'not been taken to increase the force of our regular 'Army, for to that we must principally look, even after - this tinea. sure was enforced, for the true defence of England ; and however Gentlemen might differ from him, he must take this opportunity of sincerely lamenting that measures much more prompt and decisive had not been adopted for extending the regular Army of the Country. • He remembered it was said, that he had not sufficiently considered the difficulties the French would have in coining : here, when lie had talked of their landing scOoo men, and of their coming up with that number to London : after making allowances for the difficulties of wind and tide, he had said they might possibly land that num ber; now although he had been ridiculed upon the occasion, yet the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Se. c ETAR Y at VAR, had afterwards himself admitted the possibility of that number landing. He had supposed that too,ooo of them might embark, and that 50,000 of them might land here, anti on which occasion he had expressed a patriotic and English mau-like wish, that out of she 100,000, 50,000 might be drowned; but be would rather take the number of those who should land at 30,000. This he only mentioned to shmi that the Right Hon. Gentleman (the •SICR ETARv at WAR), had changed his opinion upon the probability of the 6100 land ing a considerable force in this CoUtitrY. How ever this might be, he had an heartfelt' concurrence to this Bill, as a measure of prompf'and necessary, vigour. 'With resped to the exemptions of the Bill, it was a matter entirely in the care of the Executive Government. He hid no difficillty in saying he was perfeetly convinced that five or six thousand Englishmen would drive ten thousand Frenchmen into the sea, if they invaded this land, and he thought it would be adviseable to train a ,great number of men under this Bill to the' use of pikes. A Corps of pikes might soon be formed, even of those who had nut yet been trained, and they might do great execution among the enemy. He knew the force of' this son of armament ; he had witness sea the dila of it in the Irish peasantry, when em ployed against their own Countrymen in the late re. hellion ; and if they had been so efficient against their own Countrymen, what might . , not be expected when they Caine to be employed. against a foreign and invading foe ? For this reason he wished to see this armament extend to the whole of the male po pulation of the Cotintry, some with firearms and. some with pikes. But supposing that Invasion should take place before all the people could be armed, and that 70,000 French troops should and that they might gain some military advantage of positibn, he thought that in such case the,Capital might be exposed to the danger of battle ; and al though it might be three thousand to one against this being the case, yet we ought not to risk, even with so much odds in our favour, the Capital falling into the hands of the enemy, cwt.() for the shortest of all periods, because the disgrace of the thing would be incalculable in its effetti, as it would be most galling in refledion. , 'therefore we should not say that we had done our duty until we had done all that could be done by human effort. It would be an indelible disgrace to us to leave a possible chance against ourselves, if it could be possibly avoided ; but the chance of the , Enemy getting possession of the Capital was a think not to be endured in thought, if 'provision could be made to render it impossible ; we. therefore could never say We had done enough for that purpose until we were perfectly sure we could do eo more. As to what . had been spoken on a former occasion by an Hon. Baronet (Sir WILLIAM ERSKINE), who spoke..so much like an Englishman and a Soldier, he must observe that in his opinion, and it was not a light opinion, but a deliberate one, after hearing all and reading almost all that had been said and written upon this subjeCt, - that 60,000 might possibly be sufficient to decide the fate of a battle, and that then the-Enemy in the event of succeeding in that battle, might proceed a consider able way before they could be checked, and as their place of landing might nut be very distant from the Capital, they might come to it, and they might gain possession of it. This would be an indescrib able disgrace to us, if it should happen ; it was our business to take care it should not. The question then was, what wire the means to prevent such a disgrace ? There were two means by which it might be avoided. The one was by increasing our Regular Army—the other by having recourse to Fortification, of which latter we were destitute at present, and wholly defenceless; and by a due at tention to which the advantages might be almost in finite: and the advantage of increasing our Regular Army would also he very great. Upon those two topics, however incapable, he could not help saying what occurred to him. Without entering into any professional discussion, lie would ask this plain guys ti there were 60,000 of the Enctny. in this c o °—lf o n orty,and they had gained one military advantage, could we feel confident that if we had an Army of one-third of the Line only to oppose that, we should be successful in. Battle; or would we not be more likely to succeed if we had an Army composed of t wo thirds of the Line ? Ile was persuaded that every man who .had any knowledge -upon the subject, would sa y, we should have more confidence it the whole Army to be thus engaged were of the Line ; w hy t hen if the danger which hung over us was imminent, as indeed he thought it was, that we were in great peril, and considering what we might, and therefore ought 'to be, of comparative weakness ; when we came to set about a new arrangement, we ought to take care that it should be the most effeetual that the nature of things was t of admitting ; this had not yet been tooe: a t i Pl : e i rt e was one measure which had been omit ted which ought to have been set on foot, Which was to redo* the Militia Force to a due proportion with that of the Regulars ; foe he thought that the Militia in this crisis ought not to be More than one third of the regular force-of the army. He would carry up every one of the Regiments to the highest point of streng,h, by supplying it out of the Militia, as much as that could possibly be dune ; this appeared to him to be a matter of mere necessity, and he thotight that a little exertion on the part of the Militia . Colonels might effeetuate this purpOse, when once they were convinced of the propriety of it.' He believed that io or - 30,000 men might be got low the Regulars out of the Militia, in the course of a month, that expedient might be of in calculable value, but the present measure, great and patriotic as it was, would take a great length of time to carry 'it. into execution, and he must say he - did not think that our power was made use•of in the best manner. We had 6o Regiments, he thought that between 20 and 30,000 men ought w be added to them out of the Militia, as well as to supply that stock out of the Army of Reserve. In this manner we might in the course of five or six weeks have such an Army as we might haVe oc. casion for, and such as would be equal to any con test We might expea, and we might then be confi. dent of success in any adion that might take place in the vicinity of the Capital ; but by the measure now before the House,. without some such addition as he was now recommendireg, we might, and even n several months before we - were in the state to be st b d i es desired to face our danger, part of which was mast that of London falling into the hands of the enemy;. for if they gained any military advantange after landing, they might come a great way before we could stop them : if London were to fall into the handi of the Enemy, he would not say that England would thereby be absolutely conquered, but it would be the most disgraceful situation that England ever was placed in without being 'wholly crinquered, for in.that case the Enemy might have the means of recruiting their own Artily, and so. make it extremely difficult for us to drive them out of the CoOntry - : for these reasons he wished our f PRICE 'SIXPEtiGiit Army to be increased by the most pronint Military measures, and which he did not think we had hi: therto had recourse to ; and here he must again say ? . we were beyond measure to blann hit not (Wing every thing that was in our power to do—that Un a til we had done every thing that human wisdom And professional skill could do, until we could with a safe conscience say, we have done every thing in our power to do—we have not done our duty, that - we did not use the means which Providence had now placed in our hands, and it was flnpiuu9 iii •us to negleEt them. He could not feel: that he should be able to prevail upon GoveYntnent to adopt the measures ,which he desired, ame of which was an extensive fortification; but t a l wa ta of fortification,do unless it was a great national work, taken up the v t re s a r t e a :( l l; an to ta t ge li s ni l t (S il b ia e t d i e v 'r o l t v tl e d d o b i; With a proper national spirit; he admitted that we should unnecessarily take away men from the various pursuits by which the strength of the Country was kept lip, and sacrl4ee•them . for a long time to 11664. tary measures, Vet for a while he thought we ought not to stiffer any thing to interfete with our •military preparation, even if every wheel in the kingdom shOuld be made to standstill ; it would be our duty to do so, and therefore unless His Majesty possessed • already the power of requiring the Military Service of every man in the kingdom, that power ought to be speedily granted to hon.—Fie should now pro_ ceed to state the•leading points to which he wished to called the attention of the House, and particutarty that of His Majesty's Government. In the first place, our Naval and Military Force, should be so • disposed, that they could, not be stormed under any circumstances whatever assured the House he was not going to give any informaa • tion whatever to the enemy :—He telt it would be improper to give them any. He had heard it said indeed, there wete no good secrets in wat which we could not disclose to the -enemy ; should therefore relate some things which he knew would illustrate what he was saying. In the y'eat 1799, the Archduke Charles sent hitn a payer at the Austrian Head-quarters, which was foteld in the pocket of a French General of distinEtion, con_ tanning a scheme for invading England, and hi which the different spots, at which to place the - different columns, from all parts of the coast, to • London, %vete marked out, together with the p,„ sition to be observed by each coltimn , aed all this was done with minute detail, and such as it was impossible. to have been made out by any, tiody but one who had been for sonic time upon each of thea particular spots there stated, and who had minutely. examined the ground with a (firma view to military Operations. • Another instance he would givea;--• he wits .acquainted with a General Commander, Marshal Kahan, who had proposed the Invasion of England. He knew 'they sent men over here to ascertain the. State 'of the Country for the purpose of preparing for the Invasion of this Countty. Ge neral Custine, who was afterwards beheaded, ,had entertained this idea a long time : he learnt. this from that Officer himself; for he had had a great deal of conversation with him at the King of 'Prus sia's Review. That Officer told him he had been travelling in England, and he had had the impu dence to say, it was for the purpose of a View of our Coast, in order to prepare for an Invasion. —He said that we did pot observe sufficient caution with regard to our places of defence, for that he was suffered to go all Over the Castle of Dover upon merely saying that he was an Englishman, but in this rearet the want of caution was equally great on the other side the water, for that he was permitted alsd to see all the: works at Boulogne. ? -He stated these things . nut to expose any secrets, but to shew that we had nut any upon this subjeo, and observed, that hi s mein: tinning these things was only to tell ourselves what the French knew already.. The next point to which he wished to call the attention of the House was that of the means to be used by us to prevent the Freud' from landing, and this included another consideraa tion, that of the safety of our Naval and Military depot.—The first thing in this view of die suljeet, to be attended to was, the ,( t r it ii t ,) 7 s r o C e t xt t e s he knew it was impossible enti r ely t sive a Coast as ours, yet he could not conceive how we could be so inattentive to our trna interest as to negleA • that matter, altogether when so much advantage might be gained lay it ; he,pledged Man. self to prove, that if we , set our shoulders to this matter properly, as a great national objet, wel might iu the course of two month,' put the Coast, from Yarmouth Roads to the Downs, in such a state of security, as to bid defiance to any attack ; and upon this subjeCt he wished that his o i mints might be fairly and freely canvassed, nor would he. attempt to discpialify himself in .point of judgment on this matter, for he bad had the approbation of Lord Cornwallis, who had been pleased to approv e o f many of his notions of Military mat ters, and had given him a letter of reoommendation to Governa men; on that account : this he thought he to;oht state without imputation of Egotism. Upon the • assert, w ao l which hd so i ) e h l i de gi pledged bhe did and approbationilll e gave e i i n u e ll a . : e ‘tvi e o, s )i s il t d r i y a"si (;)I t r i n • k i that if we that wo i s le ; c t mt!at i ;y r a in s vt l i i t t u (e)g l u d ar e r r cd s properly to the tii!isatt:(,)ablg,r,o,rit:na Cooley Na. ' J r: mouth Roads to the South Forelaint, in a atate of the most perfect defence. As to our Navy, have an higher opinion of it than he . had ; every thing that a Fleet could do, would be done by (ir Flee t ; but he would defy any gentleman in the Navy . to lay his hand tilion his heart, and ask liiinsaf, whether he could " I will prated you agai m t the landing of - the French, at all events ; they s h a ll not land ;" on the contrary, any Naval Nrsort of the least knowledge and refleCtion, would say eases