The Sun. — London, England, 1844-01-25 00:00:00

IRELAND. THE STATE TRIALS EIGHTH DAY-BY EXPRESS. (FROM OUR OWN REPORTERS.) COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH.. DUBLIN, TUESDAY. THE QUEEN r. DANIEL O'CONNELL AND OTHERS. The Court sat at ten o'clock. The traversers were in Punctual attendance. • The first witness called was John Maguire, Head constable of Police, who being examined by Mr. Bennett, Q.C., on the part of the Crown, de- Posed —I am a Head-constable of Police ;in the Month of May last I was stationed in the town of S ligo. I reme m b er h av i ng atten d e d t h e L ongford Repeal I meeting, which was held last May on a Sunday. saw the people coming into the town that day. They came flocking into the town between eight and nine o'clock with musical bands playing before them. They Walked down the street playing " St. Patrick's Day," had peculiar an d " Th e I ris h men. " T he b andsmen aad peculiar dresses upon them. They wore military clips, some of which had red bands and some gold bands. there was here some trifling noise in the Court which 4 l 3 pared to annoy Air. Bennett, who requested that Mr. Hatchell would Use his influence with the gentlemen around him to pre lecYe order, as it would be otherwise very difficult to conduct the examination. Mr. Fitzgibbon (who was sitting next to Mr. Hat chell) said—l can assure you, Mr. Bennett, that no one hi making a noise in the vicinity of Mr. Hatchell. Mr. Bennett—But I can assure you, Mr. Fitzgibbon, that there is, for I can hear him speaking at this dis tance. —(Laughter.) Mr. Fitzgibbon—l'm sitting nearer to Mr. Hatchell ualln you are, and tea ther was ny voice I should hear it. Mr. Bennett—l assert there is noise, and I would not Say so were it not that I know it to be true.—(Laughter.) Mr. Fitzgibbon —This interruption is quite uncalled for. Mr. Bennett—l'm not alluding to you at all now, so keep yourself quiet.—(Laughter.) Mr. Fitzgibbon—Yes, but you said there was noise in ttaY vicinity, and there is nothing of the kind. , Mr. B enne t t —l repeat w h at I sa i d b efore ; some gen tlemen around Mr. Hatchell are speaking so loudly that 4 Ern interrupted in my examination of the witness. Mr. Fitzgibbon—lf there is noise in Court it does not ecrne from this side of the Court—(A laugh)—l'm right. Mr. Bennett—So am I.—(Laughter.) Mr. Forde—My Lords, I was only making a sugges tion to my counsel, Mr. Hatchell, and this I submit I had every right to do. The Chief Justice—You ought not to be interrupting the Court, Mr. Forde. „ Mr. Forde—Nor was I, my Lord. I merely leant over e bar to make a suggestion to Mr. Hatchell relative to the cross-examination. I ?dr. Fitzgibbon —I don't think Mr. Forde's voice could " av e•interrupted anybody. Mr. Bennett—Ah, Mr. Fitzgibbon, do permit me to go " . " -- (Laughter. Mr. Fitzgibbon ) —I have not the slightest objection.— (Laughter.) Mr. Bennett—Well now, wit ness , y ou were proceed -ng to" - describe the bands ; they wore military caps You s ay ? Witaess—Yes, with red or gold bands ; some of the , s ua llds we re p rece d e d b y a man dressed like a drum "taior,. who held a large stick in his hand ; the People followed the bands ; I formed an estimate fr t lie numbers wh o were p resent ; I s h ou ld t hi n k r cm 40,000 to 50,000 people were met together the occasion ; I observed a person leading the c rowds ; the person in question I believe to be a Ca tholic priest ; the people came on in military order ; I mean by military array a kind of rank and file order of "'archin g ; there were several persons on horseback ; a bout 100 of them came into town with Mr. O'Connell ; he sat on the front box or seat of his carriage ; there Was a gentleman sitting with him, whom I under- Stood to be Bishop Higgins. Mr. Steele was inside, and another person, who seemed to be a clerical gentleman. I did not know who he was. Mr. O'Con nell arrived about two o'clock. He was preceded 'Y three or four bands playing before him. The houses l a the town were decorated with green boughs, and ih Bo me of the people carried boughs in their hands, waving ein ; some of the people had sticks, and on approaching he platform way was made for them, a n d some o f t h em had stick s and were brandishing them; the meeting broke thlala b etween four and fiv e o ' c l oc k ; I was near t h e p l at f orm, ieh w as very large, and a number of persons on it ; I 4 not s ee any o f the traversers, except Mr. O ' Connell and !r. Steele ; I took notes of the mottoes that day ; but Mr. christen took not es o f t h e speec h es f rom a window, under Itemobservation, as we could not b o th conven i en tly t a k e rin ; the motto over the platform was "Ireland for the and the I r i s h f or I re l an d ;" t h at was very conspi :Pus ; in another pa r t o f th e t own was " A popu l at i on of nine millions is too great to be dragged at the tail ,another nation ;" it was on a large piece of white l ' i t u t co or linen, and was fastened to the wall on the i t U clin road ; it was after the meeting I saw nuts e t h another motto was "rn He that co a crime strengthens the enemy ;" I am quite ,e the w or d enemy was there . another motto was L Re eel and no separation"—" Cead mille fealtha." I ~!rd Mr. O'Connell speak that day in the early part of 3 rilY s peech. H e sa id t h e i rs was no vain cause. I cannot charg e memory with h a vi n g heard him make an y allusion to trial by jury or the administration of justice. Did you hear him make any allusion to judges or courts of justice 7—He said "they took the commission °f tthe peac e f rom your respecte d supporters ;" he also friends the people "Go home quietly, and tell your what you have heard, and when I want you a gain won't you be ready ?" That sentence was im pressed on my memory, as it was the conclusion of his t% l eech ; a f ter t h at M r. S tee l e came forward, with a areel of papers ; he said they were speeches of the J'iherator's, made about some measure of Sir R. Peel's. hr A fter Mr. O'C onne ll ma d e hi s speech did you see any I ldishing of sticks ?—No. the last Fit zg ibb on —H av i ng regard to the testimony of Put in witness y es t er d ay I wou ld ask is that question rtir'ln a fair or legal shape? tr',,tai.ge Perrin—Sure it has been answered. ;',,hlef Justice—What harm is the answer? Fi te r. Bennett —I would be exceedingly obliged to Mr. laztLizigibbon if he finds me putting an illegal question to s t , r c an objection to it at the time, and I shall either I , ..ain it or give it up. Fitzgibbon—" After Mr. O'Connell's speech did a se 4 e any brandishing of sticks ?" ti r. r • Bennett—Yes ; I had a right to put that ques for 'and you are not to judge of its legality, Sir ; it is hie Court. C f e Justice —Oh, go on with the examination. chiPless—The people all dispersed a ft er th e meet i ng. s o4a Chief Justice—Can you state about how many per and suppo se were there 9-1 think b e t ween f orty fty thousand. c(4 °s a - examined by Mr. Hatchell, Q.C.—I am in the stibst a bulary, and a first head constable. I am not a sto r ; l4 sPeetor, b ut it i s t h e next step to my office. John l'her w as the h ea d cons t a bl e th ere on t h e occas i on. Th er e are two degrees in the class of head constables. kr e Is one chief head constable in each county. Sots Connell—Speak u p, Si r , l et us h ear w h at 5 „, 43 '• itl sp E e L 'i a first h ea d consta bl e, and the next step is sub et°r. I cam e t o L ong f or d on t h e 27th of May, the t before the meeting. I came with Johnston, who e xarni I)i d ned here yesterday. You read any report of his evidence in the papers ts s clorn;. • , r uing ?—Not this morning. k r ou last night, Sir ?—Yes, I did. Iv; ll atchell—So I thought. Je you ever in the army ?--No. lii) i , s ;tere did you stop in Longford ?—We got into a Ataconvenient to the platform. b i ,q You saw it of course ?—Yes, certainly. 1 , Z 04 ,," Yc)u see any breach of the peace committed ? ; hatever. bas „ an y tenden c y t o a breach of the p eace ?--Th ere viic breach of the peace committed. tell ~O Y do yo u eva d e g i v i ng me a di rect answer ?—I will . all I know about th e su bj ec t. did 4 4 0 st there an y t en d enc y to a b reac h o f t h e peace ?—I s ee any br e ach o f th e p eace comm i tte d. ` L ene u e e _ t ile a direct answer, Sir. Was there any ten / a breach of the peace ?—None that I saw. ....,(tttiatike it for granted you are not a Repealer ? bowtghter.)—No, nor do I belong to any other party. ,roa Youbelong to a party of police ?—(Laughter.) (;, ,a 'w a great deal of people there ?—Yes, after onnell arrived. th ere ther e e t , no as breach of the peace, and having gone l ot hrOjiPreserve the peace, and finding the peace was 41 4 t,. Alas, Othe 110 's occupation was gone," t a t nead-co nsta bl e M agu i re h a d not hi ng at a ll to her e (G laughter.) W as it n ot so ?—I did not go I)ittri9 preserve the peace at all. Z t tln g h t t You though. Ah, me l Well, and what thenent ou there Mr. Head-constable Maguire ?—I air. /e to make observations. 4rat4hell Hah ! That was the tactic . of a good (1, .. 1 to la oad la see how the land lay in the first instance.- 1 ,• th e „ u gliter.)— When we are assembled for preserv -'lPeetrace, we act under the command of the sub- Th e P S eoPle were coming in merrily ?—Yes, they were. co y ax ce as to a country fair ?—Eh. fair ver see the People coming into an Irish ~( A l f te ' r i tie tn merrily?—Yes, very. 1. 4 41 d l a c i ng UP their heels and dancing a little bit ? I. e Oh sai,ghter.)—Yes, something after that fashion. i,NB, Ili the people were brandishing their sticks ? s e i )j , .Nvere, l t - ,get. or anger or disorder, or had it a tendency to 'Te r, quarrel amongst themselves ?—Not the least tt‘el'6Y Oncoming in in parties, you said ?—Yes, they 4, de in military array. G e n ts thence, in military array. Now had they their ll eta ir shoulders this way ?—(Here the Learned a ath at an th a c h l o v uld , ere . d a large pen amid great laughter.) bi on und _a r ) , ?—No they had not. ~.d the_ carrye stand me P—l suppose I do. id the ?: co arms ?—reat laughter.)—No. theYy presentport? arms w h en the General came up?— ' a llghter.)___N o. They e l cha rge ?—No. they - -No, they- did not. Yet ea . . in military array. Wonderful to.totery array ! — (lmmense laughter.) They came q4)..!stpr_ Port, xr , a Y and did not carry arms, did not come . "-t o, not present arms to the General, did not I' l ;4' ?--,17'°.-hter)—and yet they came in military ` l. - .) 1 41 t h e ' es, th ey did. 5 }(41 ta 11 e 4 4 1 ,, t ,_—Some of them might have halted. " Mat ntro) of them were mote?—(Shyuts lanied bY ng in the ajesty and the Prig ed by th° t en for as r Edward ir. G. E• ing in the and tb9 his morn• 'tins Vil* )ining the omparli'd at KO tle. lissionarf non, wit h 1, foreign aeu at ttait inter vi' 111 official lay at t 6• men, bad yestetdsi Colenitle ransactei BILL who y • t • arldt 696 h ery of This THE SUN. LONDON, THURSDAY MORNING, JANUARY 25, 1844. . ... of laughter.)—There might be some_ of theul lame, and Do you swear the full procession was going through ?..-I say in tha= sense the might halt.— Laughter.) a part was going through. The last part of it. Where did they y halt ?—Near th ( e platform. What time did you leave the s tr e et to undre s s?—l was not in That was when they could not go further ?—Yes.-- the street then. I undressed in the barracks. (Immense laughter.)What time of the day did you undresi?—l should think(he sitating) about I cannot exactly say. Did they stand at ease ?--I suppose they did, for some You are very precise about the words Mr. O'Connell used. of them must have come a good distance, and therefore What time did you put on the disguise ?—Was it one o'clock. they must have been tired.—(Laughter.) . It might be about one o'clock. Oh, they wanted rest, and then they stood at ease— Was it one o'clock ?—lt might be more. I think it was just so ?—(Laughter.)—They marched, and halted, and between one and two. stood at ease, because they were tired. Did you see the whole of the procession?—l don't know that Do you know anything about marching ?—Yes, some-• I saw the whole of it. I saw half of it. thing. - What half did you see?—The last half, We re you ever drilled 7—l was. Where did you see it ?—I saw it going out of Mallow. Do you know the first movement ?—When a person is Are you a constabulary man 7-1 am. You have fought no battles ?...No. desired to march he is to put his left leg foremost.— 0 Oh . then you are not a military man, you are a civil man. (Shouts of laughter.) ow,. Sou have said the procession marched in military or- And let your right leg follow it 7—Yes, that's it. der, with bands playing, colours flying—are these words your Well, now, were the people coming in military array, o wn ? A re they your own spontaneous effusion ?—Yes. with their left legs foremost ?—(Renewed laughter.)-1 Were you not frightened by this military array, close columns do not know which of their legs were foremost.—(Great and marching order ? —No. laughter.) What tunes did the bands play ? Did they play " Paddy Ca- Did you see them all march P—l don't know. rey," or 44 Paddy from Cork," or " God save the Queen ?" Did you ever hear " Come, brave boys, we're on for I took no notice. marching"—(Laughter) ?—Can you explain the dif- This w a s not a militar y p rocession ?—No, aci saw great a vil one. ference betwe en th e r i g h t an d l e f t l egs 2—(Shouts of There were bands of music and banners?— laughter.)—Not exactl many banners. y. What do you mean by the horses being in apparently particu . Which of your l er i s f oremost now ?—C anno t sa y. largood order—were they fat ?—That would be good order. Cgs Mr. Bennett—What has the difference of legs to do in this case ? Mr. Hatehell—Do not be angry because I am pleased. Come, Captain Maguire—General, I think, I ought to call you—did you ever read Duncla,s on Manctuvring ? Yes, a little. What part of it 7—Cannot say. Then, ,you have forgotten your lesson ?—So it ap pears.—(Laughter.) Well, now, having gotten so fax with your left leg foremost, what do you mean by rank and file 7—Two deep. Ah, hah ! you are too deep for me. On your oath, does it mean two deep, or a single file ?—Cannot tell exactly. Oh, there you are, Mr. Captain Maguire, on Dundas's tactics.—(Laughter.) Do you mean to tell the jury that the people all came in marching two deep ?—I do not. They did not march two and two, rank and file ? —They did not march two deep, but some of them did. Hew many of them did so ?—Some more and some less. Were they short or long ?—Don't; know. Well, take the largest party, and stay how many came two deep ? (The witness made a very long pause.) Mr. Hatchell—Well ? Witness—Well, Sir. Mr. Hatchell--I say ill, Sir ; go on.—.( Laughte r. ) Well go on ?—The largest number of a party might ex. ceed 100. Did they come in two deep ?—Some of them did. Will you swear that any one body of them came two deep? —Some of them came two deep in a kind of enilitary order. Oh ! a kind of military order, was it?—Yes. By virtue of your oath, Sir, did you not swear a moment ago that they came in rank and file?—lt was a kind of rank and file. Like mounting the Castle-guard ?—Exactly so: By virtue of your solemn oath, will you swear that any one of the parties you saw came in order such as the guard goes in when relieving the other guard at the Castle T--Some of them did. Was there any entire party who came two and two 2—Some of them did. On your oath were there not a great many women and chil dren there ? Yes ; the women and children came aCter Mr. O'Connell.—( Laughter.) I mean after he came into town. Did they not come in with the men 7—They might have come in after the men. Were they not with the men ? Some of the parties I Be scribed had no women. Was there any party with women and children 7—Yes. Were they with all the parties ?—They might have coeise after the parties. Were there not lots of women and ehildren in the military array?—They might hare followed the men.—( Laughter. ) The women and children followed in the rear ?—On the sides. Then the women were beside the men ?—ln some cases. Were they mixed with them ?—Not with those men who came in as I described to you before. Mr. Hatchell—l do not want to entrap the witness, but I want him to give us a fair and honest statement of what took place, according to what he saw. Witness—l am disposed to do so. Now, you talked of a drum-major ?—I did. Do you know what a drum-major is ?—I do. Had he a silver-headed cane in his hand ?—He had a stick in his hand, the top of which was either silver or something representing silver. It was the band-master had that ?—No ; the drum-major. Is that the band-master ?—No, it is not. You knew them to be temperance bands, did you ?—No ; they were all strangers to me. I know you did. not know them personally ; but did you know them to be temperance bands ?—I was informed that some of them were. And when the meeting was determined, and the speeches were over, all the people returned quietly home?—They And their wives and children with them ?—They all went away. At what hour?.—Between four and five o'clock. John Jolly was the next witness produced, and being sworn, was examined by Mr. Brewster, Q. C.—l am head-constable of Cork, East Riding. I remember a meeting at Mallow on the 11th of last June. I was there. It was on Sunday. I went in uniform.to Mallow, but I changed my clothes before the meeting took place. Before the meeting eommenced I saw a procession. I saw it pass through Mallow in the direction from which I was told Mr. O'Connell was to come. I cannot recollect the place where it passed. I was a stranger there. The procession was a very numerous one. There were several bands. There were persons on horseback. The procession marched in regular order with bands and banners ; the bands playing and the colours flying. Several of them had cards at tached to their button-holes to distinguish them from others. More had paper round their hats with the words " O'Connell's Police" written upon it. Describe what order they went in ?—They marched four or five deep. The horsemen went much in the same way, ap parently in regular order. Did you see persons taking more particular command than others ?—I did. Describe in what positions in the procession they were?— They were outside the body, or the ranks, as I may call it, and appeared to give directions to the others. Some of the horse men who did take this command had wands, with something like ribbon tied on the top. It was late in the evening when the procession returned. Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Steele re turned with it. Ido not remember ever to have seen se large a meeting. How many think you were there ?—I think there were some hundreds of thousands. I have never seen such a crowd before. In what part of the procession were Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Steele ?—I did not see them in the procession, but I saw them on the platform. Where was the platform erected?—lt was erected near the shambles in Mallow. Was it a large place ?—lt was a very large open space, anti it,Was very nearly full; I went near to the platform; I was about ten yards from it ; sometimes nearer, but the place where I stopped at last was about ten yards from the platform. Did you take a note of the proceedings ?—I did not. Did you hear Mr. O'Connell's speech ?—Part of it. Are you able to state the substance of any part or parts of it ? —I am. The first thing that was done was to present an address to Mr. O'Connell ; so at least I was told, for at that time I coald not get near enough to the platform. What did you bear Mr. O'Connell say ?—He first said that he came to tell them a secret, and thought there were enough of them to keep it.—( Laughter.) He told them, too, that the Union should be repealed by some time that I cannot exactly remember.—( Laughter. ) Did he mention any time ?—He did. He also said that they should have " Ireland for the Irish. They might have England for the English, and Scotland for the Scotch. but Ireland should be for the Irish ; and that he defied them to keep it, for they were too numerous, too determined, and too - temperate." He said that on the face of the earth there were not a greater pack of bribers than the British House of Commons, and that was admitted by some authority he then gave. He then asked the crowd, did they ever hear talk of the man with the ugly name? Sugden—(Laughter.) He said a friend of his in Kilkenny told him he would net call his pig " Sugden "—(Laughter)—and as for the Lord Lieutenant, he was so ignorant that he heard he sent a commissioner to see if Kilkenny was a seaport.—(Laughter.) He then alluded to the police. There were some members of the police there, and he spoke of them. He said that if they had made applica tion to him, he would have appointed several of his own police to keep the peace, and save the police the trouble of coming there. He said they sent the soldiers to shoot them, " but," said he, " they know a trick worth two of that." —( Laughter. ) He said, "if we are attacked we will defend ourselves. The sergeants of the English army are the finest body of men in the world, but the worst treated. The French sergeants were generally raised to the rank of officers; they were a great deal better treated than the English, by being promoted to the rank of officers." He also began telling the crowd the effects of repeal. He said the labourers would be farmers, the farmers gentlemen, and the gentlemen Members of Parliament—(Loud laughter, in which the Court and jury joined) —no, not Members of Par liament, but Lords.—( Repeated laughter). He asked the crowd, Would they be ready to come again if he wanted them, and desired as many as would to hold up their hands. The crowd held up a wood of hands. He said when they came again he would require them to come armed, but the arms would be repeal cards. Mr. Brewster—Did you observe anything particular—l mean in his tone and gesture, when he was then speaking ? Yes, he paused when he said " armed," before he said " with repeal cards;" the meeting lasted about two hours. I taw something occur on the platform before the meeting commenced which attracted my attention ; some one on the platform—it was before Mr. O'Connell came—pointed out a person in the crowd, and desired him to leave the meeting ; he said he should be put out by force if he did not leave it. He said to the crowd, " Cut his reins, drive him out, he is an enemy." I did not see this person, but I think he was on horseback, as the other said, " cut his reins." Cross-examined by Mr. Whiteside—Are you acquainted with Mr. Johnston ?—I saw him. When did you see him last ?—I saw him in the Court to-day. Did you see him last night ?—Yes. Did you then know he was examined yesterday ?—I did. Did you talk about the trial with him ?—No, he was away from me. Have you not seen him frequently before the trials com menced ?—Yes, I have. Did not he tell you he came here to be examined ?—He did. When did you see Maguire last ?-1 saw him last night. May I ask your rank in the constabulary ?—Head constable. You are not an officer then ?—No. Pray, where are you stationed Ballingcollig, about six miles from Cork. May I ask what newspaper you take in ?—I take in no newspaper. Well, then, what newspapers do you read 7—l am glad to see any of them. I suppose you read the Cork Constitution? —Yes. Did you read an account of the Mallow meeting in any of the newspapers will answer candidly ; I did not read any account of the meeting. I have no recollection that I did. Try and remember ?—I cannot recollect. Upon my oath I do not. Will you tell me to-morrow if I meet you ?—I cannot recol lect that I did. Will you swear that you read no account of the meeting in a newspaper ?—I will not. Were you ordered to go to Mallow ?—I was. How were you dressed ?—I went in regular uniform. Were you in Mallow the night before?—l was not. I went there in the morning. Did you meet other policemen there ?—Yes. Were the policemen dressed in uniform 2—They were. Was Mr. Anderson, the sub-inspector, there ?—He was. Does not he know Mallow better than you do ?—He does. What time did you undress ?—I can't say exactly. The procession was going through the town at the time, Now, what became of the guns and muskets, the cannon, the dead and wounded of this battle ?—There were none at all. The horsemen were mounted five or six a-breast, and more after them. Are you sure the horses' tails were not tied together ? Were there real living men on them ?—There were. And woaten behind the men ?—Yes, on pillions. /Vow tell us, did they charge you or you charge them ?—I did neither. Had the women their arms about the men ?—They were holding on. Now, I have to ask a question suggested by Mr. Hatchell. Do you conceive that an offence against the arms order ? ( Great laughter. ) So, with music playing and banners flying, and women with arms round the men, they marched out of Mallow ? Yes. Were there no children there ?—lt would not be a place for them in the crowd. Were the bands temperance bands or timperance ?-1 do not. understand timperance. I beg your pardon. I assure you I mean no impeachment on your moral character. I wish to know do you think it better that the people should amuse themselves playing music or drinking whiskey ?—lndeed, Sir, I prefer the former. Why, you know in either case they are prosed, quocungue via, as we lawyers say.—(Laughter.) Did you make any report of this battle ?—I made no report. I took no note. How, then, do you recollect Mr. O'Connell's speech?-- Because I took a great interest in hearing Mr. O'Connell speak. Are you a Repealer? You took a great interest in Mr. O'Connell's speech, you say?-1 was glad to listen to a good speaker. You had better wait a little, then, and hear Mr. Hatchell and the rest here ?—I would be glad to hear gentlemen of eminence. How did you take a note of the pause? Are you not to allow a pause in speaking ?—Certainly, Sir. I wish to know how, because it is odd a witness yesterday said Mr. O'Connell paused ?—I took no notice aeall. Mr. O'Connell told the people to come armed with the Re peal card ?—Yes. Now, when you heard the word armed did not you nudge the man against you ?—I was nudging him to get on as quick as I could. He said the sergeants in France got promotion—you cocked your ears at that ? Now, do you not expect to be promoted to the office of Head-constable when the trial is over ? I have a a great respect for the constabulary, and like them in any cha racter save witnesses ? That is for the Inspector-General. Well, the Inspector-General ie a reasonable man, and don't you think it reasonable that a useful, active man like you should be promoted ?—lt is reasonable.—( Laughter ). So Mr. O'Connell said when we got it (Repeal) the labourers would be farmers, the farmers gentlemen, and the gentlemen all Lords?—There will be no commoners then.—(Laughter). You will be a Lord yourself—(Laughter)—Lord Bailin , A t Tell torn e m y G n e o n w e r , a l w j h o i i e n h e d i 3 ) joined).—He H th e is sa t i r d eu so o . n, collig ?—( Great laught er , i n w hi c h t h e w h o l e C ourt save t h e e l conspiracy, sedition, ce- flat burglary ?—( Continued laughter).—l never joke when I em on my oath. There was a country fellow on the platform, who told a per son in the crowd, whom you did not see, to be gone, not t r e at itig a disturbance ?—I did not k now w h a t h e might be doing.• You have idle times in the north, I think ?—lt is very sin gular, t kie less I have to do the better I like it.—(Laughter.) Now did you not say you never joked when on your oath ? —That i s. really, no joke Sir.—( Loud laughter. ) You were not much pressed on that day?.—lndeed I was, by the crow ed.—(Cont inued laughter. ) Why you .are joking again ; but there was nothing more to incommcdt . you—your whiskers were not pulled ?—The crowd was veoey great. Were there ladies and gentlemen among them ?—Neither. Did you di,le comfortably that day, and had you a good bed ?—lt was pretty hard.—(Laughter. ) When did you leave Mallow ?—That evening. When did they ferret you out as a witness ?—About the month of December. Are there any respectable people in Mallow ; any proprie tors in the town ; shopkeepers or landholders near it ?—Plenty. Why, then have they pitched on you, a policeman, who escaped to tell of your imnsitient hair-breadth 'scape from the scene of slaughter ?—( Laugh was sent here. Now, Sir (here Counsel addressed the witness in a tone of the most dramatic gravity, amid the roars of the whole Court) sincerely trusting you may speedily obtain that promotion which you so richly deserve, I hare to wish you a very good morning Re-examined 'by Mr. Brewster—Mr. Anderson was near the place of meeting. He was in the Courtehouse, and could not hear what was said. The witness then withdrew. The next witness called was Henry Godfrey, police con stable. He was examined by Mr. Freeman-1 was a con stable in August. 1 remember the 6th of August. I was in Baltinglass on that day. I was stationed at Donerd. It is about eight miles distant from Baltinglass. I was ordered to Baltinglass the evening before the meeting. The meeting took place on Sunday. I saw a great number of persons there between twelve and one o'clock. I observed persons coming in on large waggons ;from the Rathvilly side. They had a band with them. I saw banners. I did not observe any inscriptions. The meeting was held a little outside the town. I saw the Rev. Mr. Nolan before the meeting took place. I heard him desire the people to go and meet Mr. O'Connell. I heard a man say the shouting will frighten the pigeons. Another said, " Yes, and the Protestants too." This was before the Rev. Mr. Nolan desired the people to go to meet Mr. O'Connell. I was dressed in plain dress. Mr. Mr. O'Connell came in about one o'clock. I heard a man say " This is the day that will frighten Saunders." A gentleman named Mr. Robert Saunders lives about two English miles from the town. The expression was made before Mr. O'Con nell came up. Mr. Fitzgibbon—When did you make the memorandum out of which you are reading ?—On the day the meeting was over. To Mr. Freeman—l attended the place of meeting ; I saw Mr. O'Connell, there, and Mr. Nolan, Mr. Farrell, and Mr. Copeland ; 1 saw the two Metcalfe there, and a person who was pointed out to be Mr. Steele ; I would know Mr. Steele's person (the witness here identified Mr. Steele who was sitting near him in Court). Mr. O'Connell was there also ; he re collected him saying that he did not despair of getting the Re peal, for he had the people to back him ; he also said there were some millions of money sent out of the country ; he did not say how much ; he stated that the taxes were to be paid out of some fund; he heard him say something about Lord Wick low ; he heard him call Mr. Felton a " bog-trotting agent ;" does not recollect that he heard him say anything more. Did you hear Mr. O'Connell say anything about meeting the people again ? Mr. Fitzgibbon objected to the question. Mr. Freeman had no right to be leading the witness this way. Mr. Freeman—Did you hear him say anything about tithes ? Mr. Cantwell said—Really in justice to my client I must interfere ; this is not fair. Chief Justice—You must not interrupt the Court, Mr. Cantwell. Mr. Cantwell—l must, and hope I shall do my duty, my lord, and I hope your Lordship will do yours. Chief Justice—The Court will do its duty, and if you inter. rript it again you will be removed forthwith. Mr. Cantwell—l am satisfied that the Court will do its duty, but I must bring under its notice an illegal question. Chief Justice—lt is not your duty to address the Court, when you have Counsel to do so. Mr. Freeman—Do you recollect that Mr. O'Connell said anything more?—He said when he came again he hoped all the people !would be there to meet. him. He heard the people also say that they would get the Repeal, now they were all sober and determined men. He saw Mr. Lawless, a Roman Catho lic clergyman there. He heard him say that tithes would be done aw: ty with. He talked about going to Dublin, and said if the Prote.stant clergymen were civil, and would join him, they would get the tithes during their lives. He could not say how many peopl e were there. He was in a crowd, and there were a great number of people around him. He was not alone, there was sometimes another man with him, and sometimes not. Cross-examinswi by Mr. Fitzgibbon—Were you a stranger in Baltinglass?--No. I had known it ten or eleven years. You were very well known there as a policeman?—Yes. Hose long have . you been a policeman ?—Twelve years." Wei e you all that time in Baltinglass ?—I was not. I was station ed eight miles from it. At t his meeting y ou were not molested ?—No. Noe xpression was used painful to your feelings ?—One person said, " This is the day that will frighten the pigeons," (in Baltinglass dialect, policemen.) There •was no attempt to remove you from the crowd?— No. No attei opt to do you injury ?—No. You my lht have got up to the front of the platform if you had liked ?—Y , es. Like any other person in the meeting ?—The same. Can , vou tell us the name of any other person that was with you Yo. When tho observation was made about the . " pigeons," was there not some one who replied, " and frighten the Protestants too?"—Y. You plai a 3 3, heard him ?—Yes. Were you > within a yard of him?—Yes, Did you de anything 7 —No. Did you know the person, or ever see him ?—No. What sot 't of man was be ?—He appeared to be a coun tryman. Then ye to cannot name any person who heard that expres sion besides. -yourself?—No. Yon can nu it name any person who was about you at the time ?—I c. in. not. There were millions of people about me.— ( Laughter.)— -I made it my business to keep out of the way of all people whoa 1 thought would know me. Then you. t nean to say that during that day you endea voured to assist I the eyes and notice of those who knew you ? ....I diet What did yea a do to avoid the eyes of those who knew you ? I would shift from any place when I saw them into another part of the ems rd. Lest the .y shuteld see you ?—Yes. Did you expect that shuffling forward to another place in the crowd, w. 3uld prey, •nt your being seen by those who knew you ?-1 lid. Did yot i dip your hean'Y—No. Did you i hide. your head I—No. Then, v that you did when you saw an acquaintance, was to shift your way through the crowd ?—I worked my way through the crowd wit. hmy face up. I endeavoured to make my way through them Did you fir ,d any place in the crowd when looking around you, you coial d not see any men who knew you?-1 did. Where was that ?—ln front of the platform ; I cannot say how far that was from the platform; perhaps twenty yards, sometimes it might be ten yards ; I was in front of Illew's Hotel, which is about a mile from Baltinglass, when I heard the words, " m i . is the day when we'll frighten Saunders ;" I cannot tell th e name of man, woman, or child, that heard that phrase; 1 was c lose to the man who said these words; I might have seized him; 1 cannot tell you who he was; I did not ask his name ; I recce 'dad the phrase on paper the same day ; I (and the decision was affirmed by the full Court on the mo tion for a new trial), that the evidence was admissible in asmuch as it was calculated to show the chant.* r of the in tended meeting. In the present case, the evidence of the witness now under examination, went to prove that statements were made by persons coming from the meeting at Baltinglass in reference to the question asked at that meeting, whether, when Mr. O'Connell came again they would be there to meet him, or questions to that effect. It was a question for the jury as to the way that language was understood. Then they had the people leaving that meeting, declaring that they were ready to turn out and fight for repeal if necessary. Common sense told them that what was understood by that meeting was more calculated to be proved by what they said after the meeting was over than before they came there. He contended that the meeting was not over because the people might be dispersing. In the 15th volume of the State Trials, page 553. they would find it so laid down ; and suppose that some of the parties who attended the meeting at Baltinglass went off to Mr. Saunders'a house, and committed an act of violence on it going from the meeting, he insisted that would be evidence against every person that spoke at that meeting. The Attorney-General then read the case which he relied on, and contended that the people alluded to were coming from the meeting, and that the actions and expres sions of such people could be given in evidence, as the acts of the party who attended the meeting. They had it in evi dence already that the people were heard to say that we must have repeal, as we are sober and determined men ; and could it be said that they could net give such declarations in evidence after the meeting, when declarations before the meeting were admissible? Mr. Whiteside sustained the objection, and said the case cited by the Attorney-General made entirely for his (Mr. W.'s) clients. He read from page 111, Philips on Evidence, and said it was ruled that the conduct of persons going to a meeting could be received in evidence, because it was a declaration of the thing done before the meeting ; but anything said or done after was not evidence, and of course could not be received. He read from page 201 of Philips, and contended that it was in his favour. Judge Crampton—This is a very important matter ; it is stated that in the case of Dr. Sacheverell, the declarations were made by the mob after the meeting. Mr. Hatchell—lt says mob, but it does not state that the matter took place after the meeting, but merely a mob that ac companied him to the Temple. Judge Crampton—That is very important ; if it was made before the meeting the case is settled, but if after it does not exactly apply to this ca , e, and therefore I think we ought to investigate the matter. Mr. Whiteside—Here are two men who are met, half a mile from the place of meeting, shouting, and that at an hour after the meeting. If such things could be given in evidence, the acts of the parties next day might be admitted. The case of Lord George Gordon was where the expressions were used by the mob while they were pulling down a house. The Attorney-General—ln page 553 of the State Trials you will find it was the mob who accompanied Doctor Sacheverell after the meeting was over. Judge Crampton—The evidence was that a mob accom panied him to the Temple; but it does not say they did so from the meeting ; and that is the important fact to be understood. The Attorney-General—What we rely on is this, that the declarations of those persons ia part of the res piste of the case. Judge Perrin—lf it was proved that a shouting and expres sions were used by the body of the meeting, it would be a dif fetent thing; but here are two men, pot apparently connected with the meeting, and away from it, using certain expressions. Mr. Moore—And there is no evidence that they were even at the meeting. The Chief Justice—Let that fact be ascertained. Mr. Tomb (to witness)—Where were th e men ?—O n th e bridge when I came up. I can't swear that they formed a portion of the people who were at the meeting. Judge Crampton—The Crown in this case bad better not press the evidence. Mr. Moore—lf the jury have taken any notes of this evi dence the Court will please order it to be struck out. ,The Chief Justice told the jury to strike out the evidence. Cross-examined by Mr. Moore, Q. C.—l knew of the meet ing before, as it was quite notorious ; heard of it for about three weeks before that time ; it was quite notorious in all the dis trict, and we all knew it was a meeting for the Repeal of the Union ; all was quiet at the meeting ; there was perfect peace, tie acts of violence were committed; I did not see anything like the least breach of the peace. The Court and Jury retired for a quarter of an hour. Manus Hughes sworn and examined by Mr. Holmes—ls in the police, acting constable, was stationed in August within twenty-one miles of Baltinglass ; was at Baltinglass on the 6th of August last ; there was a great assemblage of people there on that day ; thinks he knows Mr. O'Connell ; he (Mr. O'Connell, was pointed out to witness at the meeting ; never saw him before. Witness went to Baltinglass the day before the meeting ; he went to the meeting in plain clothes. People were coming into the town all the morning. Saw Mr. O'Connell about two o'clock; he came in by the turnpike road, the Dublin one. There were a great many people with him. When witness saw him, it was when be was coming near the platform. Witness took notes of what passed that day ;he wrote them next morning. Will swear to their correctness. took a note of it before the meeting was held by Mr. O'Con nell ; I did so on one side of the road. Show me your note ?—I hav'nt it here. Did you not, to the jury, awhile ago, look at your notes, and pretended to read it from your book ?—I did, and I have it here (handing a paper to Counsel). Mr. Fitzgibbon (looking at the paper)—Did you not awhile ago tell the jury that you made this note the day of meeting ? .—I did not tell them that note. Did you believe I was speaking of anything else than that paper ? Did you believe my question was about the paper in your hand, or any other paper ?—I cannot answer that question. Now answer this single question, Where is the original note from which yot!say you wrote this book ? I think it is burnt. Dead men tell no tales : when did you burn it 2.—When went horse after sending in my report. Were you ordered to take notes ?—I was ordered to take notice of particular words. Do you mistake my words ?—I do not remember that I was ordered to take notes. It was with a pencil I took notes. I went prepared with paper to take notes. Report the expression again respecting Saunders.—l will. It was—" This is the day that will frighten Saunders." That is what you have written ?—Something to that effect. heard words to that effect from several persons—who said Saunders would be frightened to-day. Another said " Devil's cure to him, he would not came down and join the people for repeal." Did you not tell me this minute that you made a note of the phrase ?_I made a note of it upon the paper that was burnt. I took notes that I did not mention in my report. The book in my hands is nearly the same as my report. I cannot say that it is so exactly. Mr. Freeman—Let the report be put into the witness's hands. Mr. Fitzgibbon objected to such a course. Chief Justice—Wait until the cross-examination is over, and it will be then time enough to put the report in his hand. Mr. Freeman contended that the document ought to be placed at once in the witness's hand, or else that Mr. Fitz gibbon should forego the intention of asking the witness any question respecting it, for it was a fixed rule of law that no witness could be interrogated respecting the contents of any document which was not in the first instance laid before him. Mr. Fitzgibbon maintained that the document ought not to to be placed in the witness's hand, and assured the Court that Mr. Freeman had totally misconceived the drift of his question. He had asked him if the report he had sent in to his superior officer was the same as the book in his hand, thereby plainly asking him whether he had taken the book from the report, or the report from the book ? But he did not put any ques tion to him as to what was or was not in his report. He merely asked him how his report was framed. He wished to know whether the book was framed from the report or the report from the book, and he was at a loss to think how that could be construed into a question respecting the contents of the report. The Attorney-General contended, that according to the rule of law it was absolutely necessary that the document should be placed in the witness's hand. This point was decisively settled in the Queen's case. Mr. Fitzgibbon's question was this—Does the book in your hand correspond with the report now furnished ? and surely this question was, in point of fact, tantamount to an inquiry as to the contents of the report. Mr. Justice Crampton (to Mr. Fitzgibbon)—Put your question again, Mr. Fitzgibbon, if you please, and that may decide the controversy. Mr. Fitzgibbon (to witness)---Now, Sir, tell me this, did you copy your report from that book in your hand? Witness—The way of it was this.—(Laughter.) In the first instance I made out my report from the notes which I took on the day of meeting, and then I copied what I have in my book from my report. I copied the report which is in this book from the report which I sent into my offi ce . Did you copy the book from the report before you sent in the report?—Yes. Are you sure now ?—lndeed I think I am. I have ex plained it to you how it was. I took a report from my original notes, and sent it off, and a copy of that report I brought to my station. What became of that copy ?—I don't know what became of it. I dare say it is at home—l'm sure I don't know— Stay, stay—l believe I have it here—yes, here it is. This is the report which I took from my original notes. Well, read it through, and tell me de you find in it any thing about " devil's cure to Saunders?—( Witness giving a very cursory glance over his report.) No, there is nothing about it here. Mr. Fitzgibbon—Why, Sir, you don't think it worth your while to look through your notes for it? Witness (carelessly) —Oh, I know it is not in it. Where were you when you nude out your report ?—ln a house in Baltinglass. Who owns that house ?—I forget th• man's name. You forget his name ?—Yes I do. All I know is, that he is a carpenter. He keeps a lodging house. Does he not ?-....Ye5, he does. And you lodged in his house, and have been for ten sr eleven years in Baltinglass, and yet, notwithstanding all this, you forget his name ?—I do not remember it. I never lodged in his house but once. Your memory must, indeed, be very treacherous, and yet you can remember what Mr. O'Connell said that day Passing strange that ! I think I may let you go down, Sir. Witness—My Lords, I never was stationed at Baltinglass for more than a fortnight, and there are numbers of people there whom I don't know. Cross-examined by Mr. O'Hagan—There was no breach of the peace ?—There was not, nor any appearance of one. Did the people go away peaceably after the meeting ?—Yes. John Macan examined by Mr. Smyley—ls a police-con stable. Was at Clontibret on the 15th of August. The Rev. Mr. Tierney was there. (Witness here identified Mr. Tierney in Court ) It was a large meeting. The Rev. Mr. Tierney said the Union was carried by every species of fraud and cor ruption. ( The witness here stated some particulars of an interview he had with Mr. Tierney previous to the meeting.) Do you remember anything else he said ?—I do. He talked with regard to the feeling for repeal having become general, and had extended itself (or words to that effect) to the army. I recollect his saying that it would not now be so easy to spill the blood of their fellow-men who were seeking their rights peaceably. Repeat, and repeat slowly, what Mr. Tierney said about the army ?—I cannot speak as to the precise words, but I will take care not to exaggerate them. He said the army was now in favour of repeal, and that it partook of the enthusiasm of the people, and that they could not be led t o b ayone t t h e i r fellow men who were seeking to redress their grievances peaceably. Do you remember anything else that passed between you ? I do. I recollect his saying on that occasion—" See what the army has done in Spain." This was on the 16th of June. A juror—Was this a private conversation with Mr. Tierney ? —I do not'know what you may esteem it. I was there on duty to inquire about the meeting. Was nobody present but Mr. Tierney ?—There was a per son with him who retired as I came; but there was nobody within hearing at the time the conversation passed. Mr. Smyley—You just began to say something about what Mr. Tierney said respecting the soldiers in Spain. Did Mr. Tierney say anything then ?- , --11e did ; the conver sation might have lasted about a quarter of an hour, but I can not charge my memory with everything that occurred. Do you recollect anything more ?—He spoke about the As sociation. He said if it did not ultimately attain its object, it would at least have done thus much—that the country would get something else besides bayonets. Judge Perrin—Repeat that, repeat what he did say ?—He said that the Association, even if it should not finally or ulti mately succeed in gaining its object, it had done so much at least, that the country would get other measures than the bayonet. or wo r d s to that effect. Mr. Moore —Did you take any notes of the conversation with Mr. Tierney, on the 16th of June ?—I made a short entry of the substance of some of it. 1 made an entry of that portion of it having reference to the period at which the meet ing was to be held. Have you these notes with you at present ?—I have an ex tract of them. Here is the note which I took of one passage of the conversation (and that the only passage), immediately after the conversation. When did you take that note 7—That is part of a note which I took on the very day of the meeting, on the 16th of June. I entered that in my diary. Come, come, Sir, I am not asking you anything about your diary. Take that piece of paper in your hand, Sir, and tell me is that the note you took of the conversation of June 16th ? —That is a copy of the note which I entered in my diary on the occasion in question. What has become of your diary ?—I suppose it is at the station in the county. Who has the care of it there?—The senior constable. I saw it last on the day I was coming up to town, namely, ou the 10th of this month. I made the entry on the very day of the conversation, but as I have already told you it only refers to that portion of the dialogue which alluded to the time of holding the meeting. There is no other remark upon the same subject except that of which this document is a copy. Read out your note.— ( Witness here read his note, which was somewhat to the following effect :—" 16th of June. Saw Priest Tierney upon the subject of the contemplated meeting. He said that the time was not as yet fixed for the meeting, that it depended on the convenience of some barristers who were to attend, but that he would give due and proper notice to the authorities when the day was settled," &c., &c.—(Laughter. ) Have yeti in your diary any note of Mr. Tierney's expres sions relative to repeal, Spain, and the army ?—No, I have not. I did not think it necessary to make any note of them. I did not ask you what might or might not appear neces sary to your sublime judgment; I merely asked you had you any note of those expressions ?—No, I have not a word on the subject in my diary. Were there any magistrates at that meeting ?—There were. Do you know their names?-1 recollect having seen Mr. Plunkett at that meeting. How far was he from the platform ?—About hilt' a quarter of a mile. Mr. Fitzgibbon—Go down, Sir. The witness left the table. The next witness called was Henry Twiss, examined by Mr. Martlev, Q.C.—I am a sub-constable, and was so in the month of August last. I was stationed at that time at Redcross, in the county of Wicklow, which is thirty miles distant from Baltinglass. I was at Baltinglass on the 6th of August last. There was a Repeal meeting there that day. I arrived at Baltinglass the evening More. I went there on duty. I made a report to my officer of what I saw there. I sent in my report on the morning of the next day. Thi s document now handed to me is the report, and was written by me. There was a great crowd at the meeting. lam not at all in the habit of estimating numbers, but I am sure there were, at all events, 5,000 persons at the Baltinglass meeting. lam confident that lam greatly under the mark. I saw Mr. O'Connell there, and others whom I don't know. The chair was at one time occupied by a gentleman, named Copeland, from near Dunlaviu. Another gentleman was subsequently called to the chair. The second chairman was some person from Kilcullen Bridge. I was at the meeting about one o'clock. I mixed in the crowd. I was ordered to attend the meeting in plain clothes and I did so. I saw people coming from various directions, some came from Carlow, others from Tallow. I was on the plat form at one time, at another time I was within five yards of it. I heard people in the crowd make various political ob. servations. I heard some people saying " Ireland was trampled on but she shall be so no longer. The time is nearer than you think. Let us wait patiently for some months. Ireland was trampled an long enough but she shall be so no longer." The meeting lasted, as well as I remember, from about half-past two to six o'clock. I was shown Mr. Steele there that day. I saw the Rev. Mr. Nurtagh there. He made a speech. cannot state what he said as I made no report of it. -examined ea b k y ers. Mr. lll‘Donogh—l took no notes of what teas said r:aisbd presume that when you heard the people say, ' 6 the time is nearer than you think," th ey were spea ki ng o f t h e Re peal of the Union ?—I co u ld not say; b ut so if you like. You are not able to ascribe a n y o th er mean i n g to it ; but the repeal of the union was the su bj ec t th ey were discussing ? —lt was. you may suppose Did you see all the people retire?—i can't say I saw them all retire, but I saw them going away in every direction. There was no breach of the peace at that meeting ?—Not that I could see. And no tendency to a breach of the peace? No; not the slightest Everything went off very peaceably ?—lt did. I am exceedingly sorry you did not take ample notes of everything that occurred there. You may go down. Mr. Moore again begged to know whether their Lordships would consider the traversers affected by expressions that any individuals might think fit to use after the meeting had sepa rated. Their Lordships would see how dangerous the effect of such a line of examination might be ; they had lately ruled that if persons in coming to a meeting conducted themselves in a particular way, and thereby gave a character to the meeting, it would be admissible; but it struck his mind that it would be going a very dangerous length to allow the traversers being af fected by conversation between individuals, when going home from a meeting. No man could possibly be safe, if such a doc trine as that was held. Mr. Hatchell followed on the same side. A party might be affected by what took place at a meeting where he was present, and from which he had the option of withdrawing, if he pleased, and not affirming by his presence his sanction of the legal, and tranquil at a meeting, when it separated his connexion with it ceased; it was impossible for him to set matters right, or to be answerable for the conduct or miscon duct, the language or declarations of those parties, or of parties who might not have been at that meeting at all, although coming proceedings. But, :suppose everything to have been fair, from the direction of it—it would be surely inconsistent that a man should be affected in character, property, liberty, or per haps his life, by the conversations of persons over whom he had no control. Patrick Lenehan sworn and examined by Mr. Tomb—l am a police-constable. I was at Baltinglass on the 6th of August last. I saw the people coming into the town to meet Mr. O'Connell. I cannot say how many, but there were some thousands there. I saw them going over the bridge of Baltinglass on the Dublin road. I was at the meeting when Mr. O'Connell came there. I was in plain clothes. I was about thirty yards from the platform. I saw Father Lalor of Baltinglass there, and Mr. Steele, and the Rev. Mr. Mur tagh, of Kilcullen. I heard Mr. O'Connell tell the people that he was glad to see them there, and that he hoped they would be there when he came again.—( Great laughter). They all shouted at that. After the meeting was over I went across the bridge towards Baltinglass, in the direction of the bar racks. The place was very much thronged. I heard some of Did you see any other magistrates there ?—I saw Yr. Gould about the same distance from it that the police and army were. Oh I then, there was an army, and police, and magistrates, there ?—Yes. Who had the army brought there I—Why, I made report of the meeting as soon as I heard it was to take place, and I can't say who brought them there after that. Tell us your opinion as to what caused them to be brought there?—My opinion is that when the report was made to the officer of the district, he made a report, and upon that they were brought there. Was that meeting a very peaceable one ?—Yes. You saw no breach of the peace there ?—rie. How many magistrates were there altogether ?—I think four—Mr. Plunkett, Mr. Gould, Mr. Hamilton, and 1 believe Captain Wilcock'. William Thompson sworn, and examined by Mr. Baker—l am a head constable of police. I was stationed at Castleblay ney, in the county Monaghan, in the month of August last. I remember the meeting at Cloutibret on the 15th of August. I was there on duty. I was in uniform. I remember seeing gentlemen come on the platform. I was close to it, so that I could hear part of the speeches delivered. I saw the chair taken by a gentleman whom I understand to be Captain Seaver. I heard him say something which I took a note of on the platform. I have that note by me. I took notes of what was said by others, besides Captain Seaver. What did you hear Captain Seaver say ?—I heard him ask the meeting if they had all got Repeal cards? A voice cried out that they would. He said, " Loose no time in getting them. I have reason for saying so. Other Associations have signs and pass-words by which they might know each other. I know no better way for you to know each other than by pro ducing your Repeal card." Have you anything more that fell from the chairman ?—I have. the people saying— Mr. Moore—Does your Lord shi p think this is evidence t o affect the traversers—what was said or do ne by the people aft er e t h i I a m c e t e e t r i n t o g t had m t e a e k t e i n n g ? Mr. Tomb submitted that the effect produced by the meet.p lac e , and whether th at can give a ing was evidence. Chief Justice—The objection may be premature ; but I think we cannot exclude the evidence. the pl ace w h ere Witness—l was obliged to stop on the bridge, it was so crammed, and there was such a lot of peopl e t h ere ; one of them said, " Repeal is certain now — we must get it ;" anot h er said, " If we do not get it quietly we will fight for it ;" ano th er said, " We will turn eut to a man and fight for repe a l." think ßa it is about ltinglas sfro half a mile. theilmoweetfianrgiswtahsehberiagld?e of —f How long after the proceedings at the meeting was it you heard these expressions?--It was not an hour. Were the people going home from the meeting at the time? —They were going off in every direction at the time. Mr. Tomb respectfully submitted that thi s was a proper question to he asked, and that the evidence as to what the wit ness heard the people say on the bridge was admissible, on the ground that it tended to show what the natur e of the meeting was, and the effect likely to be produced by the language used. The people who used the expressions sworn to by the witness appeared to be part of the crowd that met at that meeting, and listened to what was said. Mr. Justice Crampton (to witness)—Was it in a house you heard those words ? Witness—No, on the bridge. Mr. Justice Crampton—l thought you went into a house. Mr. Tomb—No, my Lord, he said the bridge. Th e Leaf the witness was Learned Ho was not aware that there was any express or direct au th or it y upon a C d o m u i n s s s e i b l l e e r n i again s s m u b u n: h i tt a e s d i t that ar t itheeteerviiideedntcheaot meeting. this point, but in the case of the Manchester riots, it was ruled that the persons who seemed to have attended a meeting showed the nature of that meeting. Mr. Justice Perrin—ln that case it was what they said when they. compelled others to go with them and t o f orm par t of the meeting. Mr. Moore thought that in the absence of au th or it y th e Court had only to look to common sense and co mmon j ust i ce; and he would ask them, if, after a meeting was over , men thought proper to act illegally, that every indi v id ua l w h o at tended that meeting one hoar before, was to be made respon sible for that ? Such a thing was inconsistent with common sense and justice. The Attorney-General submitted that the evidence of the witness was admissible. In the case of Bedford against Burley, the circumstance arose from expressions used by the party going to the meeting, and Nr. Justice Holroyd decided Proceed then.—The chairman afterwards desired the people when the meeting terminated to depart to their homes peace ably, and to insult no person. Is that the whole of which you have notes of the chairman's speech I—Yet. Do you recollect anything the ehairman said, that you have not on your notes ?—I do not recollect anything else. You said you heard other speeches, and took notes of them ? —Yes. Do you recollect a gentleman of the name of Daunt at that meeting ?—Yes. Have you any note of the speech Tiede by him?—l have. Did you hear him deliver it?—l did. State what he said?—Mr. O'Neil Daunt said, " I bless God that I belong to this land—l bless God that I belong to this people. This people shall have this land if they are worthy, and who dare say that you are not worthy. The Re real move ment now or never, now an d f or ever . If Pee and Wel lington came and said we will g i ve y ou every thi ng you want, only' give up Repeal, we would not—never. Before God we swear they shall never bully us out of it. The Irish Par liament would afford us the power of our keeping it, if we Lad it ; still we will stand to ow colours, and proceed is the way O'Connell marked out for us." The speaker, after enumerating the different grievances he said the pec ple of Ireland laboured under, said " in place of six struggles, one struggle will do for all." Mr. Baker—Read that again. Mr. Henn—lf the Court or jury require it, I have no ob jection ; but I do object to counsel requiring a witness to re peat a thing over and over again. Mr. Baker—l thought the words might not have been dis tinctly heard. Mr. Justice Crampton—The way in which I understand the witness was this—that the speaker, after enumerating what he called grievances, said, " In place of having separate battles for each of these, one battle, or one struggle would do for all.' Did he say anything more ?—Yes, he said, " Are we not as good as the English ?" A vo i ce sa id, " B etter " — ( A laugh) —we are here to-day, to tell John Bull that we shall have it—lreland shall be free, for Ireland deserves her liberty. The Clontibret boys will fight the Repeal battle to the last, with God's blessing ; to stand to our colours for Repeal, and nothing but Repeal." Is that the whole of it ?—lt is. Cross-examined by Mr. Henn, Q. C.—Shew me that note ? The witness handed up the book, which contained the passages alleged to have been spoken by Mr. Daunt. Were you on the platform when you took this P—l was when I took part of it. Did you see any magistrates ;there saw no magistrates immediately at the platform ; they were at some distance. How far from the platform were you when you heard Mr. Daunt speak ?—At the end of the platform; it might have been two or three yards from it. Did you take down these words, " the people shall have this land if they are worthy, and who dare say that you are not worthy" while he was speaking ?—No, I did not ; I repeated a part of it now from memory. On your oath could you ever take a full note of a long sen tence ?—No, I eould not. Was not the meeting perfectly quiet ?—Perfectly quiet. And most peaceable ?—lt was most peaceable indeed. I should say there was some disorder on getting on the platform. That was in consequence of the pressure, was it not 7—lt was. Was there any tendency to a breach of the peace ? —Not the least tendency to it. The platform was crowded, and there was a person whose duty it was to preserve order, and prevent too many persons from going up there, or crowding it too much. Was there any objection to your taking notes there 7--Not the least objection. All was done openly, and without the least appearance of concealment ?—Yes, eertainly ; everything was done openly. l ,l James Walker sworn. Mr. Napier was proceeding to examine this witness, when he was interrupted by the Court, who then consulted together for a few minutes. A directory was handed up to the Bench, and after looking into it, the Chief Justice desired the tipstaff to inquire if Samuel Maunsell, of 52, Leeson-street, was in Court. He was then called, and did not appear. The Chief Justice then said—l am very sorry that the progress of this important trial, and the business of the Court, should be interrupted by a letter which has been presented to us, very properly, by the High Sheriff ; and un less the gentleman who has written this paper, the contents of which I cannot now explain, can very satisfactorily account for it, I must apprise him, or any friend of his who may be present, that I consider it a most improper attempt to interfere with the High Sheriff in the discharge of the duties of his office. He must attend the Court at its sitting in the morn• ing, and let him be now called again. He was again called, but did not an swer . _ _ _ _...._.. Mr. Justice Crampton—The High Sheriff has most pro perly handed up this paper to us—in fact he would act very wrong if he did not. Mr. Justice Perrin—lf any friend of that gentleman be in Court he should apprise him of the necessity of attending here in the morning, and to be very cautious how he conducts him self in the mean time. Mr. Napier then proceeded with the examination—Do you belong to the constabulary ?—Yes, lam a sub-inweetor. I am stationed at Trim, in the county of Meath. I remember the 15th of August, the day of the meeting at Tara. I was there that day; there were two other officers of the con stabulary with me. I was there under the command of Capt. Despard, stipendiary magistrate. Captain Despard was there. I was on the ground before the meeting commenced ; when on the ground I saw part of the people coming ; they approavhed to the meeting from all directions. There were probably 100,000 persons present. I observed music and banners. There were also bands; the bands generally had uniforms. Cross-examined by Mr. Close—Was there a great crowd there ?—Yes. Was that large crowd together for some hours ?—Yes. lam right in saying that the people were perfectly peace able 2—Yes. Was there any thing in their conduct to create alarm ?—I saw nothing to do so. George Despard, Esq., sworn and examined by Sergeant Warren.—Waa in the constabulary. Is resident magistrate in the county Meath. Recollects the 15th August last. Was in Trim on that day. Saw the assemblage of people in Trim on that day. They marched through the town to Tara. Tara is distant from Trim about six Irish miles. It would be im possible to estimate the numbers present ; but my own opinion is, that there were one hundred thousand at least. The number of those on horseback was about seven thousand. I counted nineteen temperance bands. I did not see any person on the platform assume the command of the people. The meeting commenced about half-past two, and ended about four o'clock. They parted of a sudden as if there had been some preconcerted plan. I was standing on a ditch looking at the procession of Mr. O'Connell coming up, and a man said it is not gentlemen whom O'Connell wants here to-day. I turned and looked at him with astonishment, and I asked him, " Well, then, and whom does he want ?" and he said, " He wants men with bone aid sinew like me, who will be able to do the work when the harvest comes."--(Sensation.) I asked him where did he come from. He said from the barony of Shelmonier, and that 2,000 came with him, and that 3,000 joined him in the county of Kildare. Mr. O'Connell's procession having passed by, he turned round to me and said—You did not take off your hat for Mr. O'Connell. I answered, that I did not. He said, you do net belong to our party; 1 replied, certainly not; I knew, returned he, by the curl of your lip, that you did not belong to our party ; upon which I said that I was very glad that he had told so much truth; in truth, my man, I continued, I (for I wished to get rid of him) am amusing myself here. When he had said these words a man came up and said to him, you have spoken enough to that gentleman, you had better come away now. On going down the hill of Tara the people shouted and cheered for the fo reigners. They mistook Major Westeura for a foreigner. They cried, long, life to the foreigners, without them we would never be able to get Repeal. They shouted for Mr. Ledroolan. I afterwards discovered that they meant M. Ledru Rollin. Cross-examined by Mr. Hatchell-1 do not reside in Trim. I was desired to attend at Tara on duty. I saw the people move from Trim in the morning. I went to the end of the town to see the people pass. Have been for twenty years stationed in that district. My person is well known by men, women, and children. I jumped up on a wall to see the procession pass. The temperance bands had a new uniform. Does not know the distance of Shelmonier from Tara. Believes it to be about thirty miles. Mr Hatchell—lndeed it is sixty-five miles from Dublin, add Tara to that. Come now— Multiplication is a vexation-- Addition is twice as bad ; but I won't set you mad with fractions—so now dot and carry one, and will not that make Shelmonier above seventy miles distant ? Who was speaking at the time you mention ?—Mr. O'Connell was speaking at the time the people were going away. There were two platforms, but 1 cannot tell whether one was ex clusively devoted to ladies. There was not the slightest ten dency to disturbance at any of the meetings. John Robertson, police constable, was then sworn and ex amined by Mr. Bennett, Q. C.—Was at the Clifden meeting on the 17th September last. Saw the people passing from Connemara. Saw them from the barracks. They were between four and five thousand in number. The meeting was held on a flat, at the back of which there was a rising ground. Saw the Rev. Mr. Macnamara, the Roman Catholic curate, on horseback, at the head of a body •f horsemen. Saw Repeal cards in their hats. Heard them, as they came down, called " The Bailin skill Repeal Cavalry." The number of horsemen was about one hundred. Cross-examined by Mr. Fitzgibbon—Mr. Murray is a pawn broker, residing in Abbeygate.street. He was considered to be a wealthy man. The persons who came with Mr. Murray were Connemara men. Some had bridles and saddles on the horses, but a great many were without either bridles or saddles. The people were perfectly quiet. The policemen were walking in and out of the barracks. Captain Ireland, the commander of the police, was in and out of the barracks all day. There were a great many women at the meeting. A great many of the boys and women were barefooted. Did not see any wea pons with them. Many of the bridles were made of rope, and many of their saddles were made of hay and straw. It being now half-past four o'clock, the Court rose. Th to St. Petersburgh Journal of the Bth gives an account of the solemn celebration of the betrothal of the Grand Duchess Alexandrine Nicolaieona with Prince Frederick of Hesse. After the ceremony the august betrothed presented their thanks to their Majesties, who then received the felicita tions of all the other members of the Imperial Family. The Archbishops and the clergy celebrated a Te Deems, and when the prayer was offered up for the health of the Imperial Family, a salvo of 31 shots was fired from the fortress of St. Peters burgh. When the religions ceremony had c onc l u d e d, the tneca• bers of the Holy Synod ofered their felicitations to their Ma jesties and the young couple. The same day a banquet was given in the Great Marble Hall to persons of both sexes of the three drat Glasses, and in the evening there was a grand dress ball in St. George's Hall, at which were all the Ambassadors, Foreign Ministers, and great personages of the Court. The bells were kept ringing all day, and at night the fortress and city were illuminated. Taa METROPOLIS IMPROVEMENTS..—TUeSdaV, at one o'clock, by order of the Commissioners of Wootls and Forests, the twenty-second sale of houses to be removed f o r th e improvements at the west-end, took place in Thorney-streit, Bloomsbury, on which occasion many houses situated in Thorney-street, Duke-street, and Castle-street, were disposed of by auction, the conditions of the purchase being that they should be cleared away in twenty-four days. These are in the line of street to communicate with Oxford-street and Holborn. There are several others which have been bought, and are in the possession of the Commissioners. Another sale is ordered for Friday next, when some houses in Plurotree-street, Broad street, and Short's-gardens, will be sold to make way for the line of street from B ow - s t ree t, Covent-garden. Where Middle-row, Holborn, formerly stood, a foot-pavement about eight feet wide has been laid down, adjoining the houses, and the effect of the removal of the clump of houses has highly im proved the locality.: FATAL ACCIDENTS ON THE R/TER.—On Monday at seven o'clock, Mr. Baker held an inquest at the Spotted Dog, High-street. Poplar, on the body of Thomas Wall, aged 16 years. It appeared by the evidence that deceased was an apprentice on board the ship Wingrave, lying in the river off Execution Dock, Wapping. On the evening of Wednesday, the 20th of December last, deceased was returning to his vessel, and had to cross a ballast lighter to get to a boat which he imagined was lying alongside, when owing to the darkness of the night, he missed his footing, and fell into the water. Au alarm was immediately raised, and one man succeeded in get ting hold of him by one of his fingers, but the tide run n i ng very strong at the time deceased s lipped from his grasp, and immediately sank. His body was not found until yesterday morning, when it was picked up off the Orchard-house, Black. wall. At the commencement of the inquiry the Coroner had charged the jury on view of a person unknown, and the in quisition of an unknown person found di owne d partially signed, when a respectable young woman, named Sarah Wall, residing at No. 102, Old-street, St. Luke's, entered the inquest-room, and, addressing the Coroner, said she believed the deceased to be her brother, and, if so, he had the mark of a small anchor imprinted upon his right arm. That func tionary immediately requested the constable to accompany her to view the body, and although the face of the deceased wee se disfigured that she was unable to identify it by that means, upon being shown his arm she at once declared that deceased was her brother. Verdict, " Accidental death."—Mr. Baker held a second inquest at the same time and place on the body o n e who W 4 I:turdaY man apparently about twenty-four years of age, floating off Millwall, iu the river Thames. o n consequence o last. Deceased f thheadlet.hgethaportairmaencheeofbabedinbefg sa n ito t r h ; e but his body was very much decomposed. S. M. were imprinted upon his right wrist. The jury retuned an opea verdict of "Found drowned." - • • ° THE OREGON TERRI ) . Intl% DI3 In an article on this subject in The .... 28th of December, we remarked on thet,TnelatiSMaV cious nature of the whole statements contained ) in the President's Message relative to the pre tensions of the United States touching the terri tory in question. " The United States," said Mr. President Tyler, "have always contended that their rights appertain to the entire re gion lying on the Pacific, and embraced within the 4(1 deg. and 54th deg. 49 min. of N. latitude." On that statement we then observed, " This is not even true. The original and subse quent pretensions of the United States on the territory were not at all to this extent." We had not, at the time, immediate access to the documents, but felt assured of our correct. ness in impeaching the veracity of the American State Paper. In the last pub lished (January) Number of the Quarterly British and Foreign Review, we find not only a remarkable confirmation of our objection, but of all the views which The Sun has announced within the last two or three months on this very " Oregon" question ; and so valuable a summary of the past history of the whole_ case, that we shall unhesitatingly avail ourselves of it in reclaiming the reader's attention to the course of transactions connected with it. The matter, always one of extreme intrinsic importance, has been so absurdly postponed, as to a final and definitive adjustment, by the diploma tists of this country, in their negotiations with Spain and with Russia of half a cen tury ago, that it is not to be wondered at if the United States have cunningly endeavoired to found, on the very fact of this protracted unsettle ment between two or three great European Powers, a fictitious and extravagant claim, on the usual Yankee principle of taking a large margin to allow of future abatements. It is not very likely that the absorbing interest even of .the Irish State Trials, and other domestic questioni; which press for the immediate atten tion of Parliament, will induce the Legislature to allow this affair to remain over, many weeks, without placing it on a sound and becom ing footing,. This footing we must rigor. ously maintain and sternly enforce. In the matter of the Gorth-eastern boundary, we have had enough of .übitrations, and of the utter worthlessness of American undertakings, to abide by the result of their own proposals for such reference. On the Oregon question the Reviewer remarks:—" Recent movements in America now show that England has not a day to lose in deciding upon her course of action with respect to this unadjusted dispute, which is, in fact, rath6r a question of territorial right, than of undetermined boundary." It may not be generally recollected, that, by the Convention of the Escurial between the Mi nisters of Spain and England, in October, 1790, neither of those Powers (which alone, of all the Governments of the civilised world could, at that time, affirm a right or title to the territory now in dispute), affected any exclusive sovereignty over it. The Convention stipulated that the res pective subjects of the two contracting parties should not thereafter be disturbed or mo lested, " either in navigating or carrying on their fisheries in the Pacific Ocean or the South Seas, or in landing on the coasts of these seas, in places not already occupied, for the pur pose of carrying on their commerce with the na tives of the country, or a making settlements there." At the present moment the United States, which, at the date of this Convention were a recognised Government two' years old, and which affect to claim through a%derivative right by treaty with Spain, have the effro. ntery.to claim that " exclusive sovereignty" . wh ich neither Spain nor Great Britain ever p re t ena :ed the one to set up against the other! It is in ' 0. reover a clear, distinct, and irrefragable fact, pla- ced by themselves on reco r d i n t h e i r pu b lic act `a and State Papers, and especially thus limited and pressed on the part of the United States, in the Convention between those States and his B. 's tannic Majesty-, relative to the territory on th, North-west coast of America, signed at London. in August, 1827 ; and again in the elaborate. " Memoir, Historical and Political, on the North-. west Coast of North America, and the adjacent ter-' ritories, by Robert Greenhow, translator and librarian to the Department of State (New York, 1840)"—that the country, so claimed by the States, throughout the negotiations on the subject up to the last message of the President, was that territory lying between the Rocky Mountains and the Sea (tie Pacific), and com prised between the parallels of 42 deg. and 49 deg. North latitude. The claim of the United States, as first agitated in Congress in 1806—the subject of negotiations between America and Great Britain in 1807; and again, at Ghent, in 1814 ; of the Convention with England in 1818 of Lord Castlereagh's dispatch of Februar y, 1818, expressly instructing our Minister at Washington that, in fulfilling the pr esen t stipulations of that Convention, he WAS on no ac count to concede the claim of Great Britain to the territorial district of - Oregon, on which Anne. rican settlements had been made; the dispatch of Earl Bathurst to the North-West Company, of January, 1818, emphatically refusing the con cession of that claim to the United States; the subsequent negotiations between America and Great Britain of 1824; and the whole correspon. deuce both of the British Commissioners (the late Mr. Huskisson and Mr. Addington, now one of our Under Secretaries of State, and of Mr. Gallaton, the Plenipotentiary of the United States, in 1827, related to the region comprised between these parallels of 42 deg. and 49 deg. North latitude. Even in the ridiculous proposal of the American General, Jessup, to Congress, in 1823, to take up the military occupation of the Oregon territory ; and the unprincipled mem.. mendation of the President, Mr. Munro, to adopt that piratical scheme of outrage upon the'pos sessions of an-ally, at a time of:profound peace ; all these equally relate to the same specific geo. graphical limits. In 1843, President Tyler has the assurance to talk,.as we have seen, of these pretensions having always extended to 54 deg. North latitude. But the same want of honesty and decent pre. cision of statement pervade that functionary's description of the territory itself. It will be re membered that he spoke of its agricultural ca. pabilities and healthfulness, ;and eligibility for settlement, in terms of eulogy which Mr. George Robins could hardly have heightened for him, had he been at his elbow. Now, we have the authority of the American Memorialist for saying that it is divided into three regions : the first from the sea to the California Range ; the second, from that chain to the Blue Mountains; the third, from these to the great range of the Rocky Mountains in which the Oregon, or Co lombia, and its tributaries, have their sources. The climate of the first region is not fertile ; the summer is immoderately dry, the winter ex tremely humid ; no rain falls from April to Oc tober; it is excessive in the other months. The yield of wheat does not average more than fifteen bushels per acre, which is but inconsiderable for a virgin soil in the new world. The uplands are heavily timbered, and the forests very fine. The California mountains rise to the height of 16,000 feet above the level of the sea. The superficies of the whole territory is " about 350,000 square relies? It is drained by the Oregon or Colombia and its tributaries, the former being navigable as far inland as 125 miles from the ocean, having a width, for about 6 miles from its mouth, varying from o ne to seven miles. " The Colombia" (according to the Brit: , ea fish and Foreign Reviewer) " falls into then s C ape Disappointment and Cape which a sand bar e= tends; and over these the waves of the ocean , • between breakte t A w d o am headlands, from nids, each of with terrific violence as they meet the discharging torrent of the river. The entrance is consequently hazardous at all times, and scarcely passable when the winds are high." The second region is more elevated and less fer. tile than that near the coast; the land not fa. vourable tbr agriculture, bu Might Wirer cos onl i : itio' #l l sit . .~' .3