The Sun. — London, England, 1803-06-04 00:00:00

~~ ;~. In, ICI ' r u as with observingt_that he had stated as shor t ly as he teas able, though at far tab great a length for the patience of the How: 'but. he did sot in the full conviaion, that he was doing no more than discharging his duty. It did appear to him, there was sulfiCienteground for supporting all the Resolutions whiclehati been submitted to the House 7-rthat they were. supported by evidence that was clear and . indisputabl e . Fie had hitherto heard no argument t o show, that, those Propositions Otight not to be. entertained by the tiotise, nor any thing ..in the colOurof an argument, except, that, the present wa s not the time ,for the discussion. of the sub.. jest. • Now the House would give him leave to say, that he was of another .opinion he ihnught. that so far, from its being an Improper, time, that it was of all times the fittest. for this discussion ; and the Houie ,would give him leave to say, that unless such'a diseussi re As this, upon an occasion like this was' to be entertained, he ap. ptehended the refusal 'of hearing it would amount to a total extinaion of the best fundlions of that namely, an inquiry into the condud of the Executive Government upon important occasions. He had acquiesced, when it had been on a former occasion, stated. that theseinquiries ought nor to be entertained pending Neg . otitition--ebut if such inquiries were not to be entertained when a Nego_ elation was over, and if when such Negotiation Wag over, he was to be told' it was not to be en. tertained because we were in a state,.of 'War, he must beg leave to a-k, at what titre and on what occasion such discussion was to be,.entertaihed at all, and he had no d4ii,!ulty in saying, that , this was the proper time far this purpose, and he sub. mined it .to the House in t h e consc ie nt i ous chagc of uur imperious duty, a duty which . h e 4`oultinar Omit to perform without sacrificing the best interest of his country. .714 CII/INCEL1:01? of EXCIIEQUfiR sai%l,, that the Right Hole C e entleman who had just sat down, did not appear, at thi.commencement of a very able speech, to have done justice either to Berne HE Gentlemen who had spoken.on that sub. jeei, or to Ministers who had hitheroemaintained silence. It was his wish that all possible ()prim. pities should be afrarded, for Gentlemen to expresb their sentiments upon the, Resolutions new before the House. It did appear' to him, that although there was no want of ability in the statetnent, of the tion..Gentleman by whom the Resoluiions were moved, nor on t he part of .those, by whom the Resolutions were supported; yet that. there were as strong and good reasons given by those:by "hat the Resolutions were. resisted : and there. lure it was not until a greater detail had been tnterel into of the conduct of 'Ministers, that he felt himself called upon to take any part in this det ) a tv ; ne i t h er ‘. ! - 0 he sune he should have risen had it'not been for seine particular expt e s. • 410ris* mide use ,of-by the Righrlion. Gentleman Who spoke last,' Who'had 'hecn pleased, to, lend'the authority — Of his high name to a 'certain detail of circumstances which was inCOqiet: . He'wishcii to 4be underttao that notwithstanding all that had -been said upon the subjed'of the Treaty of Amiens, notwithstanding all that had' been said 'by thc Right' Hon. Gentleman andlyereothers - , notwithstanding a (1 400sitiOn which had been manifested for' the rite -Pose of making an unfavourable iinpresion on that; I - louse arid the Counity with regard to the Cunha of '41 . 4 'Majesty's Ministers in 'reference to that Treaty, b e b egge d l eave to sa y, that he was now , of the same option With resped to the Treaty. of Amiens, as he was at the time that Treaty Waa ori. ,giaallY discussed. He was now confident, 'notytrith • standing all altar had been said to th e contrary, that. the. Treaty. of Amiens had been toodtidtive of cir. eurustances the most beneficial to this o.tintry. He was satisfied, that the moment he now had the ho. nour ofadd ressing the Chair, that, !Mt for thatTriaty, he should not have the satisfadion of addressing the S,LAICSIt and the House under circumstances of so much advantage to - this Country, as he now felt it Imbeessed. It was owing to that Treaty, that there 'kat' now felt -in this Country so midi confidence of strength, vigour, and unanimity—that if this Stigmatised , Treaty' had not taken place, he Was . confident we shohld not possess those advantages At the present hour; he would go farther and say - that, not only had' this Country not 'agreed- to that Treaty,. but ASO to the manner it which it had been observed and maintained inviolate on the part of this Country during the i period•which had elapsed 4ince the signature - mull the rupture of the Nego tiation which rook, place at Paris, much advantage would have been'losr. He averred with the strict. est truth, though he knew there were imputations to the contrary, that it had been the nearest wish of-his heart, and lie was Sure the same sentiment' was tertained by all his Colleagues, that the Peace sti. inflated to he maintained between the two Coun tries, should have been Preserved inviolate ; that it should be so preserved, consistently with the - honour and dignity of this Nation, was. the object of Hit Majesty's Ministers in the late Negotiation.' • With. regardtothe Policyofthe War, 'he would only say, lie knew of no such policy ; War he did not regard as:a matter of policy, but nil thing to be submitted ,to.asat matter of neceseity. Peace was the objed of, this Country at all times, when: it ;was guided by sound policy, but lie should be ashamed of harbour. 4061116'a0r wish even for Peace itself, except such as might effedually secure the Honour, the hdependence, and true Interests Of this Country; he knew that in saying this, he spoke the sentiments Etlall hit; Colleagues, sentiments whichba,d been be. fore expreesed' by . his Noble Friend,'; He then pro. ceeded to 'observe, that in eitteritt, into the Jost 'Treaty of Peace,' His Majesty's ;Ministers were of Opinion that great allowance tie:glit' to tae m4e with regard to t h e state o f 'France at that period. --But without justifying or palliating the conduoof the individuel who was .at the li44'of France, the Governmetn of this Country. wiwaisposed."? oldie great' allowances-en account of the time in which the Negotiation' was . Car'ried on . and concluded he tween ihe' two . 'Countries, the lititation t hat indiviltud stood ; after having, his mind elated end, his appetite for dominion pampered, his repu tation much enlarged, and his passions' Mitch in 11*nM; -it was harshly to be expeiletithatelatelltinid yttdO)en, and all at once calmly 'enjoy his triumphs, alit! ,otnothiiig hot' the' rational and ttnge-illte-- tinder a country tt was his lot to govern:, aese sentiments, considering all the circumstanced of time, place, condition and temper of the vidual, and marry other points which could hardly be stated, His Majesty's Ministers owed a duty of forbearance with regard to this individual, whi'cli • to another person, under other circumstances, they would not have shewn. These considerations ope. rated on the minds of His Majesty's Ministers, and they had aced upon a full consideration of them, according.to•the best of their judgment; and they trusted, that although - there certainly .was in that House a considerable disposition to blame them, yet that they should be approved in general by the House. and by the ?üblic. He would say, he asked for the opinion of the. iiouse upon this subject , with MI confidence, for he had no difficulty id stating, it was owing to that disposition for bearance that we owed the blessings of Peace. Let it he said of Ministers, if some Gentlemen pleased, that they had delayed the renewal of hostilities, weeks, and perhaps months too long, but let it not be said that they had commenced hostilities too soon; if discredit attached upon them.for not being std. ciently quick to enter into the quarrel, theyshOuld not find themselves insupportable under that accusation; but, on the other handi if discredit attached to them on account of having gone too soon into the dispute, when somemight think that by patience the. contest might have been avoided, such an int putatiun, if well founded, might not only be dis crelitable to His Majesty's Ministers, but also highly disadvantageous to the Country' itself, in the pursuit of the object for whiCh it was now con. tending, for it was essential that we should support the Contest with vigour, which nothing was so likely to diminish as. a consciousness that it was un. (hunker) rashly. This consideration, he confessed, operated powerfully on the minds of His Majesty's Ministers. iiHis.Majesty's Ministers were ac. cured of having shewn too much forbearance upon this occasion, they would,, to save their accusers a great deal of trouble, plead guilty ; • but then they begged leave to deny, it appeared from the docu. meats on the Table that His Majesty's Ministers . had made any unbecoming concession to the Enemy. That their spirit of forbearance might have been carried. too far, was what he was ready to admit, but be begged leave to denyagain that there was in the Papela laid before the House any proof 'of an unbecoming submission on the part of His Ma. jetty's Ministers.. He said he was now anxious to advert. to that p‘art of the Right. Honourable Gen tleman's Speech, which charged Government with having failed io their duty, by having withheld information rrom .the House, and also or their hay. ing held out expeetations . of Peace, and expressed opinions With regard to its continuance, which were not warranted by the circumstances, - upon which, Gentlemen had said, many inconveniences and some evils arose : in doing this, allusions were made to some expressions of his : here be begged pardon of the Chair' for what he was going to submit, be cause he, knew it was not strictly reguhr, and could only be heard by leave ; but yet he could not help thinking that the ieregularity might be thought ex. cuseable, since it might cast some light .upon the subject in debate, and 'he thought that for the sake of praftical effea, the House would perhaps not only`att justifiably, but wisely in permitting a re. ference sometimes to a former debate ; for the Words made use of, particularly by public'and responsible persons on - former occasions, might be essential to the discussion of a subjed to which it afterwards refer. red. The Rt. Hon. Gent, who had spoke last, had referred, to some words used by him on a former occa sion in that House on discussion of the De. finitive Treaty. In the course of tfiat Discussion his Noble Friend ; (Lord, HAWKESBURY) had stated, that there was to be no reliance on the continuance of Peace, but such as accorded with the interest of . the. Power with which we made it, and our own strength, and the security which we could depend upon ourselves for. , He illustrated this by a refer ence to the condo& of France liter the • Peace of Paris, and other instances, in which France was preparing for an irtfraeron of.. the Treaty immedi. ately after it. was concluded. It was after that ob. nervation was: made by my Noble Friend, said Mr. ADDINCTON, " .03 I said I saw DO reason to doubt the continuance of Peace; but I stated at that time, that yOn had no chance of the continu. ance of Peace, except .from what arose front your own strength. When the Preliminaries were clic cussed I was of that opinion, and I was desirous of not being misunderstood on other occasions. The Right Hon. Gentleman has also stated, that I said on a similar occasion, that knew of nothing in . the charafter, • condua, or disposition of the indi. vidual who was then and who" is now at the head of the Government of France, that Made' any dif ference in that opinion.: Let not Gentlemen sup pose that I meant then any more than I do now, to compliment the person who was then and who is now at the head of the Government of France. I had not then, ror have I nciw, any such intention. I said then what I tht ught--4 might he _mistaken the event has proved I was so ; but I said what thought, which was, that, there was nothing which led me to suppose that the Government of France was disposed to renew hostilities with ; this Country, and I was led particularly to form, that opinion, since I saw the person who was at the head of the afrairs Of France employing, what remained of the Naval Power of that Country for the p urpose of re-establishing order in DOMingo, _for I considered that . as evidence of a pacific system, as far as that Country was concerned. Al to what was said on the day the Address was moved, on the aid Of November last, it is stated, that L . ,believed ' there was no probability of a breach of Peace at that period. That I poSitively denya-swhat I said Vas in answer to what had been. said by an Hun. Gentleman opposite to me. He sail, that he was extremily concerned to find,. from the - declara. lion of His Majesty's Ministers, that. the War was• likely to be renewed. I took down the words of that Honourable 'Gentleman; my words were, that nothing bad fallen- front. my Noble Friend or myselfby whieh it could beeolleded that War was likely to be renewed. Vain quite sure that was all I said upon tharsubjea. It was at the close of the debate. That neither I.norrny Noble Friend had said that the war was likely to' bp 0. rtemt say, there was no . a ,nty of the renew a, of hostilities. There certainly was no protability, in my opinion at that tinie, of the renetvaLd hosti bur.l di ti not say so, . The Right Von. Gen. tleman (Mri G.g . ittet , 'AA) has stated cortenly my langu tge op the fiubjed to which he refers j brit the Noble Lott, ('rkmpLE) has not done So::, he his inadvertently given to me, , words which I never used. I state this, not merely to justify myself, but also ; the rest of His . Majesty's, Govern. ment : neither of us said what the . Noble Lord has attributed :to us in November last; namely; that there was rib probability of the renewal of Hosti. lities. I aver that what I now state is perfeftly corral. An Hon: Gentleman has' alluded also to what 'I said on the discussion of the lnoorne of His Royal* Highness the Prince of Wales, and that I said then we were in. a - state of .profound Peace. I cannot speak with as Much confidenie of what I said 'on that day* on the other occasion to which I alluded 4 I mean. the 23d 'of November, because the words I then uttered were not considered with the sante attention as those on the wirer occasion. I firmly believe however that I never uttered the words, Profound Peace. I made a distinfflon be. tween the time in which I was speaking of the affairs of His Royal 'Highness, and that of the year 1796, when a certain proportion of thancome . of His Royal, Highness Was set apart for the liquidation ,of his debts. I said that in.the' year :796, the measures. adopted, were so adopted with ,a reference to the difficulties of the Country,' on account of its being in a state of War and then Tasked the blouse, whether they would' adopt the same measure itt a tithe of Peace it had adopters in -time of War.. If I uttered the word profound, it was- only because the word " profound," and . the word t , Peace," are so apt to be coupled together, but it was not. with a view of pronouncing an earphaticalsentence„mean. ing to hold out are expedarion'of the continuance of Peace,at - altevents, that.' made use of the words Pro. found Peace - , if I uttered the words. With regard to what I am stated to have said of Peace on theditcus. .ion of the Consolidated Fund,l can safely say,that on that, occasion les:pressed no opinion whatever con-. corning the continuance of Peace ; what I stated on that occasion was, that I looked forward with satis. fadion,and that was with a reference to the abundance of the Country, of its means and resources, and I ex pressed a hupe,that they should be employed, not for the purposes.of aggrandizement of this Country, but merely for the purpose of preserving its just Rights, and for the preservation of Peace. I am sure that I stated. I•felt a satisfadion in knowing that the means 'or strength of the Country should not be applied for the purposes of ambition, but for the purpose of maintaining our Rights. Having said tints much on words uttered by myself, I am very glad to relieve the House from any further reference to any language -of ,my .own; but here let me. recur to the tecolleetion of the House, ,ind not only the recollelion of the, House have I to assist' me, but I . have also the record of the House—then you will • find what were the sentiments of His Majesty, as uttered 'from the Throne. It is said that the Speech of His. Ma jesty ,to the two Houses of Parliament 'is the Speech of the Minister. As. one of the advisers of His Majesty, I must take my share of respon. sibility for such advice, and of course for that Speech, which, like the other Ads of the Crown, is the result.of advice—but there is nothing in that' Speech of His Majesty to the circa insisted upon by Gentlemen on the other side of the House—nor is this alkfor I would have Gentlemenlook to the Address which was moved upon the occasion of that Speech, and also the Amendment. On the 23d of Novem ber His Majesty delivered a Speech from the Throne; but does that . Speech state any thing•of what His Majesty would have stated if there was no doubt of Peace ? No, if the case had been so, the expression would have been as is usual .on all such ' occasions, that His Majesty received assurances of the 'friendly dispositions of Foreign Powers, If His Majesty ima received such assurance., such an expression would. not have been withheld. The -very absence of it created a great deal of apprehension that War was likely to take place. Was icto be supposed that on that very day when 1 had, as I fadmitt I had, advised His Majesty to deliver that Speech, that I should have given an assurance' from myself, that there was no such thing as an apprehension of a breach of peace, or an assurance there would be no hostility ? I say that under all these circumstances, it is impossible should have given any such assu. ranee ; but• independent of all this, there is an event which took place in . the House,' and it is an ad of the House itself passed . with reference to the state of France, and the necessity of our not being too secure of peace.' I mean the: large, Vote of .the Natal Force. Now if we were as desirous to de ceive the House as we are stated to be, in giving assurances of the 'permanence of 'tranquility, Polit. mint did not fall into the deception, for Parliament agreed to an establishment of a Naval Force near , three times as large as that of a Nape Establish. ment, and also that of a Military' that was more than double. Should we have asked this large force. if we were assured of Peace ? Or if the House was satisfied that Peace was secure, would, , have prob t~ii granted this large force unnecessarily, for it would have been 'unnecessary if Peace had been securb The language of Hi, ajesty's Speech, the language of the Address, nod the 'Vote of the I louse after:. • . wards for so large a force, -.constituted the , best proof that could be offered. of .His •Majesty's iViiii. stets nor having deluded the Public with false as_ surances of the cOntinuance of Peace, and die impro. liability of hostilities." To this, he uhierve.t, should he aticied the 'ciicuithtanoe of the Bank Restritii9n Bill. Upo n tivt occasion one Gen. tletnan declared, that if the Minister should .14.. sure hins that the state of Europe was such as to reader that mea s ure neceisary; he shoula ac, quiesce. He told that lion. Gentleman that the crate of Europe was such as to . futtush 'btrckilg argti. meat for the measure, - op which the oppnsttion , to that Bill reoseil. This was another. proolthat Mi. iiiSters had nor lulled the' Public into a false security of Pe Act% 1 1 . e trusted the House was . ntiw of opirtilin is I ' 3ll anit - vered the. imputation Cillt upon him for laving held out Feist assureoces of Peace to delude .he Cuuntry, ar 7 o - "Chaviiig withheld any material I elf,, thatthe,c;titittitfiinal,Priiinea,.of lotea! bad ,lieeo affthetqy, his, hriv ing 141;1)40.f [ll6ol64tiorl: " sai(i 114, 4 : there ti nt,pnior on AIWA I am less.aisposed to eeter t! - ,e cuss:oh Atari thitit 14 . .3 question coneernirg Coo; stitutibnar Privileges of this I admit,. to the Whole ement, the right of ! WI , 1-touse to demand . ittfOra Metion; as far as I . am able to judge; 'Ow eight in itself is unlithitcd; belt in any eases of theeXer. cite of that rikhr, there is a . di s cretioe whi eh it always observes :—and on the sUbje4 Intim'. matiofi to' he given to the .House, there is also, a Certain discretion to lie allowed ro Ministers--it diicretion, Er the ; cierciie.uf Which they arc re.., SponSiblB-to tfiiiHouse , ant(tnthe Public ;- and tfere are sortie ms nces iii which not only :,re Mini. sters id be eicused l'Or'not mdking any Communi. cation; bin their duty requires that they shothd'not make any Communication." tie then Tioecedeit to observe oh the complaint oVhich had been made by M. Otto, undet sit heads;lagainst our- qivern_ ment; whichliad been artsWeied by a Paper now Oc t the Table; which document Was drawn by his Noble Friend, and which be hats the Stoisfaeli m i reeol; leak% was agreeable to the Ffuuae ; and it was so far satitfattory even td the Enemy, that the French;G )vernment %vete silent upon it for a considerable time : this Paper bad in ide a deep ittipression on all 'hose who had perused it. As to f.,,,vitilerland, the Right Honourable Gentleman-had accuseti'Ministers, for not Sending Mr. Moore' thither in • June i`to. stead ,of October : upon this subjen he must ob.; serve, it was the earnest wish of' His Majesty's Government that the Swiss should be made lice but it was . also the convittian of Government, drat a prematurf attempt to.become so, would be worse than no attempt at all. His Majesty's . Ministers; therefore, expressed sentiments of deep regret, that this brave and united people should lose their freed dom, but could not advise them to attempt to re. cover their freedom, until it was discovered whethei the different Powers of Europe would make a mt. mon CiillsC.with them, which was tried, and tried in vain, so that the attempt was not made at all, b:. cause it could not -be made with a prospect' of any thing but misery to the brave people whom it was our wish to make free. But the mission of Mr, Moore was not wholly unsuccessful, since it prevent. ed. the ,enemy from harassing them more, . and which he would have done in consequence of our interference. With regard, .to information to Parliament upon this subject upon an earlier day than it was stated, the answer was, that when this , took place, Parliame n t was not sitting. He said he was not dispOsed to enter into all the topics which had been brought forward by the Right Honourable Gentleman. With regard to Holland, the Right Hon, Gentleman had stated,' there was an inertness' ih His Majesty's- Ministers. On the information received from Mr. Liston, our Ambasador at • the 'Hague, jou uc. tions were given to my Lord Whitworth to make a remonstrance to the Government of France, and the remonstrance was made ; we were .taught to believe that the Troops' whi,ch were sent to fful. land would not be made to .stay there, but that they were destined for Louisiana ; . and the question was, whether when we found out that they were not to evacuate Holland, it would have been pro. dent to risk a War ? His Majesty's Ministers thought it would not. With roped to the Cape of Good Hope, Ministers had assented,to the giving of it up, because they did not believe it was worth the continuance of the War, and they retained other places of more value in the opinion of. Mini, sters, who did not say that the Cape was of no value, but they ,were 'of opinion it was Oyer-rated in point of value, nor was the expense of retaining it a trifle, since daring the, period it was in our haOds, which was six years, it cost us two of money. • He did not 'Say it would beattended by the same expellee in time of Peate, but at all times the expellee- of retaining it would be very considerable. Upon thesubjeta of . the Guarantee of Malta by. the Emperor of Russia, :nal on the oubjed of the Note which was stated by the Right Ikon. Gentleman, -he observed, that there was no engagement between this Country and Russia, as he had stated, and we had not requited any thing . that was inaonsistent, with our previous Compact with that Court. With regard to the genetal. question of makiog representations and remonstrances to Fraoce, they tad been made in every particular case .which required it, but he denied that we were bound in vindication of our honour to go to' Vat if-our remonstrance woo .not eff4loal, we might be justified in point of right in going to War, but there was the question of expedience us well as Of right to be considered, and one drat of having de. keyed going to War was, that of convincing the,. world that, although we are .not afraid of War,syet we are not too ready to seek it. -, This principle had convinced the world of the moderation of our, temper, and had at the same time united us as ono _ .. • . - ... _ . . . , man in the cause :-•-thc4c were advantago which. we should not have had it w.e had goneponcOnto the cunicst.••4le concluded with uhserving s 'that, having stated t o the HUuse the grounds of 1114c:tau. lion we had observed for the sake of preserving Ve4ce, and having stated the motives which restrain. ed His Majesty's 'Ministers from making earlier communication to the Houw, which while thera3 a. chance of pi - cm:tying l!cgtcc, would only ,havA: diminished' that chance, pending the Negotiation ; he ad<ed`every Gentlemao who heard him, to. Jay. leis hind upon his heart and to soy, it he had known all (hat appeared nuw, whether he would not, un. tier the same circumstances, : have ride(' in the same • manner . as 114 Majeity '$ A , liniszers .113t1 aged, anti whether as soon :14. the c4 ije4t Peace became quite imperils, they were not right in breaking off the Negotiation ?. :rite 1-ions i t tvonia at least see that. I ad sheivnil disposition to preserve Peitee. 114 I:.`cew mateti4d tjUCUtilent which was not now , before the House. The Right Hon..Genfle.- man, said Mr. ADDI:torvN, alledges that we say, " !ilia is not the time to 1. 9 a acciliott tipuri this nuttier." I-le will Ito; be told Ito by me, .nor by any of my Colleagues. I have said we should. IBC rea dy to meet ibis inquiry, whenever it should he proposed : it is proposed, and we have met it, ant now yourdecision upon it. Ifyou say we &servo censure, however Oat may mortify us, we shall ac.. quieste, but if yotc.tlank we do - not deserve yotte