The Sun. — London, England, 1844-04-25 00:00:00

~ P -_. THE SUN, LONDON, ad there planted their standard. Let them tell them as a Government, to their preservation ! They that they had taken their position, and that they chain the dead carcase to the living body ; and thus Would not be driven from it—that they had corn- fetter the movements, and jeopardize the health, of the I n enced the battle, and that they would continue it, I latter. And this is the result of Sir Robert Peel's however few they should get to support it. Let them promise to reform the Ecclesiastical Courts, in con tell th em that they had put their hand to the plough, formity with the recommendations of the Ecciesias to Plough through this old, hard, weed-grown land of tical Courts Commissioners, and by virtue of the protection, and that -they would never take their hand powers possessed by his " strong Government !" front it until the field was all turned up, and the seed STANDARD.—We will not recur at unnecessary "n had produced a rich and abundant harvest.— length to the proceedings in the House of Commons (Great cheering.) last night, because, in truth, we could say nothing The CHAIRMAN then announced, that Lord Kin- upon the merits of the question discussed that wehave I ntird would take the chair at the next meeting, not already said. Sir J. Graham had acted with re after which the meeting separated. spect to Mr. Ferrand upon a statement which proved to be incorrect. Mr. Hogg had given a vote upon the Nottingham Election Committee, so clearly opposed to law and evidence, that we loudly remon strated against it at the time, and have never heard a man since who would seriously undertake to justify it. These were errors, but such errors as the best men might commit, and the characters of the Right Honourable Home Secretary and of the Learned Member for Beverley stand so high, that every unprejudiced man feels that they cast no stain upon the integrity or honour of either gentleman : but Mr. Ferrand, who is not an unpreju diced man, who as the party injured by one error, and as the friend and political associate of the party injured in the other, cannot be an unprejudiced man, takes a prejudiced man's views of the errors referred to, and ascribes them to motives which certainly could never enter the breasts of the upright and honourable men whom he accuses. Is Mr. Ferrand to blame for this, to blame for not being infallible in judgment in a case in which his feelings are warmly excited ? Where are the judges who will condemn him ? We, certainly, who remember how often we have unjustly imputed bad motives because we saw bad acts for which we could not find good ones —will certainly not be the first to cast a stone. But a locus penitenticr is left open to the Member for Knaresborough : if on Friday he con fess his error he may be forgiven. What error is he to confess, error in fact or error in opinion ? Error in fact—is he to declare the dismissed Assistant-Commissioner Notes report correct, or Mr. Hogg's vote on the Nottingham Elec tion Committee a proper vote ? If he does this, he will do what scarcely another man in Eng land would do, and what would degrade him — may we be permitted to say the House of Commons with him—below what tbe worst enemies of that House could ever bring it to. But if it is the erroneous opinion which Mr. Ferrand is re quired to retract, we ask by what authority does this new inquisition—the House of Com mons—claim to exercise a despotism over men's opi nions ? And in what a base light would Mr. Ferrand appear to the country if he should be the first to submit to such tyranny. The House professes to be wonderfully chary of its honour, as committed in the honour of its Members. Be it so; let the House guard its honour, and the honour of its whole household, with the jealous vigilance of a Spanish husband. Let its self-elected sentinels of Parliamentary and personal honour—Mr. Papineau Roebuck, Mr. Black-is-White Hume, and Mr. Mexico Ward keep watch, and Lord John Russell take command of the guard, confident that he will not be compelled to fly from his post, as he did from the Castle-yard, Exeter, by the cry, " The Bishop is coming," with a certain Totnes speech in his hand ! let the House, we say, jealously guard the honour of its whole household, but let it - be impartial in the exercise of its guardianship ; and let it not, in order to protect two of its Members from a loose, doubtful, and wholly unsuccessful aspersion, insist upon the solemn degradation of another, by compelling him to state what he thinks a falsehood, or ensure its own degradation, by challenging from him that refusal. which it is almost certain to receive. ebtrb 12bitton SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock. — Nor— THE FUNDS—(CLOSING PRICES.) BRITISH FUNDS. 'Bank Stock 3Per Cent. Red 9V54 Ditto Bonds ......... ...... 93 pm. Per N Cent. Con s. Per Cent. Re I tiew 354 per Cent. 103,8 Ex. Bills, 1,000/. 130... 77 pm. ,4 , _ew.s Annuities Oitto 500/ 4-Qiig to expire Ditto Small 74 pia. J 40.186 01 % Bank Stock for Acct — Jan. Oct. 1859 Consols for Acct 99% , lB6O l2 11-16 !India Stock for Acct.... FOREIGN FUNDS. 'Austrian 5 per Cent .... ..... ;Portuguese, 5 per Cent 73 ai Belg4n, 5 per Cent Brazilian Bonds Buenos Ayres, 6 per Cent... : E hill an, gDitto, M per Cent _ Russian, 5 per Cent etallic lombian, 6 per Cent ...... 15% Spanish, 5 per Cent 2.5% oitto, 1824 . Ditto, 3 per Cent 36% ,Cub a ..- Danish, , 00nds, 6 per Cent...—. 93 Ditto, Deferred —f ----C 3 per Cent Zr_ee.k. 1 8.5, 5 per Cent — Exchange —f —c. :vitt°, 6 .t:!.alcari, 5 per per Cent., Cent 1837. Ts r erovian, Dutch, 234 per Cent 6O 180.5, 6 per Cent... Ditto, 5 per Cent ...... IOO% SARES. Bir mingham and Derby ( 100 paid) 61 Caledoni an . 5, paid 4% Chester and Holyhead ( 5 paid) 6% "tern Counties (3 paid) D itto Registered (8/6s 8d paid) Eili 66 nbuylh and Glasgow (50 paid) Great Western (75 paid) • 44t0 Half Shares ( 50 paid) L on "en and Greenwich (12t. 1: s. 4d. paid) . 4% Manchester" South Western (41/. 6s. 10d. paid) ti r and Leeds (70 paid: p ane and Manchester 57 p.7astie and Darlington Junction (18 paid) Rouen and Havre ( 8 paid) Str asbourg and Bale (14 paid) ll Ni 8? IRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. FROM THE EVENING PAPERS OF Tnss DAY. GLOBE.—The course which the Government has ,taken with respect to the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill is calculated to lower it in character, and to brand it - With merited and lasting reproach. The Bill has , passed its second reading. Dr. Nichol!, who has been appointed dry-nurse to the Lord Chancellor's • bantling, gave notice last evening that he intends on Monday to move the committal of the Bill pro forma, in order that the House snag get through the money clauses awarding compen sation to the sinecure holders, who have been allowed, by sufferance, to fill posts, and perform the duties, by deputy. It may, therefore, be a bootless task to per • gist in denouncing the Bill. The public will have to bear the burdens which it will impose. The Ministry founded its claim to public confidence on many ; Pounds. Among others, the Reform it undertook to effect in the administration of justice were espe . VallY dwelt upon. The Bankruptcy Law Re • °M—fraught with patronage to the Chancellor, " with increased inconvenience and ex- Pease to the c re dit ors , while it' afforded additional Ch ances of escape to the fraudulent and improvident Reform. th e fi rs t f ru it s o f th e p rom i se d L aw -"eforre. The Ecclesiastical Courts Bill—rendered Wo rse by the efforts to improve the measure which Was aband one d i n d es p a i r l as t sess i o n—i s th e secon d of the series. Party power was never prostituted to pur ' Poses of mischief with perseverance so determined. No bleasure was ever forced through Parliament with such admissions of defects, by those who framed and fa thioned it : these have been humiliating and complete. What, in effect, has been the language held by its supporters ? " We admit that in pressing the pre • tent measure we are without excuse, except on the • aeknied plea of expediency. We are open to re ' Pr,oach ; f or we are com pelled to reproach our '. , s seiv es• We confess that we have gone so far as, versonally, in our places in Parliament, to expressly and deliberately utter and pronounce the sentence o condemnation on ourselves, with reference to 141 - 1 8 very proceeding. But we are a strong Govern , tne nt !' and, right or wrong, blamed by ourselves, and condemned by others, we will do what we please. We will, in fact, if we so like, do what we well know, ' and admit, is wrong. It is our fancy. Argue, or not, as you like best—the end will be the same. • We Can beat you on the division, and therefore Care little f or th e case you ma k e out against us. f act, it may save you some trouble if we state e n . 6 once that the principles upon which we con .. st_ • uct the business of the country are briefly these— vole, sic jubeo, stet pro ratione voluntas." fl'ast session, in a discussion upon a Bill on the • b lame subject, which the Government withdrew, Sir ' R. Peel asseverated, " So help me God, I have no in ' tere s t in the matter !" We have no desire to impugn fortunate for declaration. We certainly do think it un • Vrtunate for the Right Hon. Baronet that:the Bill, on 1 , 4 very fac e , raises a presumption that some one in the ::Cabinet has more concern in the adoption of the tles•sure than the Premier himself. Certainly , i f t h e t:e li n kTu Ptey Court Reform Bill be excepted, there has la w li n t °. recent change in the administration of the • port; le h creates so many snug berths, and so large I\4o l n , ° of law patronage, as the Bill before us. Dr. b °I , would certainly have taken a larger amount h o be nefit under the Bill of last year. The present, s n ev er, secures an increase of emolument not to be 1 4 ._ ee zed upon. As Judge-Advocate, the Hon. and 0 f ss , r . n ed Doctor receives 2,0001. a year. The duties • A , office are performed by. Deputy Judge • th"voeates—a set of functionaries who perform all drudgery, while the Principal rejoices in rigood fortune, snugly ensconced in his mansion in g r ave•square. Dr. Nicholl is also Vicar-General ; at, office th e d ut i es o f w hi c h a r e alm o st a s l a bori ous as ' that of Judge-Advocate ; the emoluments are, how ever, conside ra bly l ess , being only about 4001. annually. __plust, therefore, be obvious, that to one so ill-pro ided for as Dr. Nicholl—whose duties are so onerous, i ue L his emoluments so light—it is a matter of supreme • '' l Portance if not of absolute necessity, that he be better provided for at the public cost. The salary fixed 1 y the p resent E cc l es i ast i ca l C our t s Bill i s no t qu it e v "Val to th at o f t h e l as t sess i on , th e un ti me ly fate of Deh no one deplores so deeply as the Learned . 1,2001. a year is not to be rejected, espe •sally when the office is one of little work. Doctor Icholl is therefore content to take the good the gods, or rather th e L o rd Chancellor, has provided for him, a nd earnestly wishes he may get it. In addition to Providing for Doctor Nicholl, the Govern • 'gent has also to propitiate the country attorneys, • 1 4 1 ? Practice in the Diocesan Courts. Their profits, der ived from following. the bipartite profession of attorney ' bjrney and proctor, would have been diminished • not the Diocesan Courts been retained ; and the P u blic intere s ts—which, as the Government had e xplicitly a d m itt e d, required the abolition of these trts—has been sacrificed, because these practi . - t n t ers, backed by the Bishops, were too formidable oe dealt with by the " strong Government." W e re was a little job- work also to be done in the way ;.! Providing about thirty snug posts for juvenile bar itsters. These gentlemen, though too young at present o be of much use to the Government, will in time grow into use. Their political influence, in the places •Vhere th e i r t i ny C ourts are t o b e h e ld, m ay be of ser vbiee at a pi nc h. Perhaps, once in two or three ' e ars they may exhibit, to the conviction of some • querulous Dis se nting cobbler, the awfulness and or thodoxy of ceesiastical law; proving to him, that for re fusingt o pay a few pence, as church-rates, he may s e, sent to prison " for his soul's health," until he :Dr/lit • Now,, returning to the assertion with which set out, that argument must be vain when em- Played with a Ministry which admits that its policy is ; Plxlsed to its own sense of justice, we may be held ' l l . l ll lB tified in adhering to our opinion, that the " So-help ' t hl*God" declaration of the Premier is all moon - ee 'ne• Let Ministers throw over the utterly unne , ab s sarY and expensive Vicar-Generalship. Let them °lish that office entirely, and blot it from the Bill. • et them—as the Report of the Ecclesiastical Courts Co mmissioners after mature deliberation, recom • iu en ded —annihilate all the Diocesan Ecclesiastical IC Courts.;i there will _be then no slight passed, and njury inflicted, upon a highly respectable, learned , aQi honourable class of men, the College of Advo . .1 4 - ,V , by the appointment of a number of suckling • Judges, such as the Bill now proposes to create. bet them allow no man to ride rough-shod over e r°, under the apprehension of losing his Parlia ti • e l'tary support. Let them, in short, do that which in their own consciences they know , and vo ii. ",_ t en their o wn lips have admitted, would be & ant ' Let th em a bide by that which they pro s to have made the basis, and which ought really to tt. their guide, in legislating for the improvement of " e Ecclesiastical Courts. The report of the Ecclesi astical Public. Courts Commission is in the hands of the 3 7'"i!o• The reforms recommended by that Corn ' - " a wn were such as the public interests de . e — " Led ' and these the ;public had a right to in lPect. The excuses which were urged for delay w e a.rrYing out the recommendations of that Corn-_ • t Clon are no longer available ; for the grounds of s e excuses no longer exist. The Government, wer e it honest in its professions, is possessed of tr th er sufficient to counteract the influences opposed Wha s ejecommendations and to carry a measure nesC should embody them , as a whole. lnstead of Y rising superior to the weak and beggarly . urnents which have combined to perpetuate the I tstitu • tions of a by-gone age, and to fasten them 342 1 i a state of society to which they are not Atic i e lY inappropriate, but a positive nuisance an injury, they determine to lend themselves NEWMARKET RACES. (THIS DAY-BY EXPRESS.) THE ONE THOUSAND GUINEAS STAKES, by Subs. of 100 Sol's. each, h ft, for fillies, Bst 71b each. D.M. Mr. Osbaldeston's Sister to Martingale .. ....... Lord Exeter's Merope Colonel Anson's The Princess . . . . Lord Chesterfield's The Bee . .. 0 Captain Daintree's Redshank filly .... 0 Mr. Greville's Jamaica.. ... 0 Colonel Peel's Zenobia Col. Peel's f by Slane, out of Seakale Baron Rothschild's Emerald.. Mr. Thornhill's Example . . 0 MATCH.—Duke of Bedford's Espoir, 9st 71b, beat Lord Glasgow's fby Bay Middleton, out of Imper tinence, 7st. First half of Ab. M. 200, h ft. Won easy. Sweepstakes of 10 sovs. each, for three yrs old, colts, Bst 71b; fillies, Bst 41b. First half of Ab. M. Lord Exeter's Mocha Mr. Greviile's Molly Mogg . Five horses started. A good race. MATCH.—Duke of Bedford's Espoir beat Mr. Os baldeston'3 Escrick. Won by a length. DUELLING.-THE ARMY. In the amended articles relating to duelling, just issued from .he War• office by her Majesty's authority, " for the purpose of more effectually discouraging and prohibiting a practice which is a violation of her Majesty's orders, and a flagrant breach of the law of the land," we find that — "These articles declare that it is suitable to the character of honourable men to apologise and offer redress for wrong or insult committed, and equally so for the party aggrieved to accept, frankly and cordially, explanations and apologies for the same. " If such redress be refused to be given, or to be accepted, and the friends of the parties have failed to reconcile the differences, a reference should, in conformity with the sig nification of her Majesty's pleasure in the 106th article, be made to the commanding-officer on the spot, who will use his best advice and influence to reconcile the parties ; and the differences having been honourably settled by the good offices and responsibility of the commanding officer, ought never to be revived by either party, or by any other officer, or body of officers ; if, however, the commanding officer fail to reconcile the parties, it will become his duty to take such measures as he may deem necessary in order to prevent a duel, or to maintain good order in her Majesty's service, and the person refusing to be reconciled will be liable to be brought to a court-martial, and, if convicted, cashiered, or suffer such other punishment as the Court may award. " All parties implicated in duelling are liable, on conviction before a general court-martial, to be cashiered. "Her Majesty's pleasure is expressed in the 107th article, that officers, being the friends or seconds of the parties, shall exert their influence to adjust a difference on terms consis tent with.the honour of each of the parties. The failure in settling a difference being generally attributable to excessive demands for preparation made by one of the parties, the con duct of the seconds, by the 107th article, is made liable to be investigated as well as that of the principals, in all cases in which a dispute shall be referred for the consideration of a general court-martial. " Personal differences between gentlemen living together as brother officers can seldom fail to be honourably and promptly adjusted, in the first instance by explanation be tween their mutual friends; the propriety of an early ex planation and acknowledgment of error was so forcibly pointed out by Field Marshal the Duke of Wellington, in confirming the, sentence of a general court-martial, in 1810, that Sir Henry Hardinge inserts the following extract of his Grace's sentiments on this point : " The officers of the army should recollect that it is not only no degradation, but that it is meritorious in him whe is in the wrong to acknowledge and atone for his error, and that the momentary humiliation which every man may feel upon making such an acknowledgment is more than atoned for by the subsequent satisfaction which it affords him, and by avoiding a trial and conviction of conduct un-, becoming an officer.' SHOCKING ACCIDENT.—On Tuesday . night, about halt-past eleven, a watchman in Candleriggs, Glasgow, found the dead body of a man, dreadfully mangled, lying in a back court off the above street. It appears that the deceased lived in the fourth storey of a tenement over looking the court, and the supposition is, that he had been attempting to get admission to the house by stepping from a stair-case window to the kitchen window, when he lost his balance, and was preci • pitated to the ground. It is known that, on previous occasions, he had effected an entrance in this way ; and there is scarcely a doubt that he was makinc , the effort in the present inst ance , w h en h e failed ," and met his dreadfnl fate. The deceased was a stout heavy man, and death must have ensued instantaneously, as his head was bruised and battered in a shocking manner. The attempt to enter the house by so dangerous a path, and at such a giddy height, seems little short of madness; but perhaps an explanation is - to be found in the fact that he was much addicted to liquor, and there is too much reason to fear that he was intoxicated when the accident occurred. Glasgow Argus. Our military friends have now go t th e i r new " military cap. and of course we civilian lookers-on must give a diffident opinion on such matters. We hope they will not be distressed when we express our opinion that the " cap fits" them extremely well. Its appear ance is rather.foreign, but so was that of the curvilinear " chako" at first, which was a Prussian importation. The " poke" is a far more sensible thing than the up and-down affair, which gave no shade or comfort, how ever knowing might be its look. The leather chin -strap is bad, but then that was used latterly with the former chako ; it has an especially shabby appearance, whereas the lately introduced brass curb chain, fixed on one side and hooked on to the other—looked both serviceable and elegant. Why discontinue it ? One great advan tage realised by the smallness of this head gear (besides lightness and comfort) is, that it is so much more becom ing to the figure ;—it adds two inches of apparent breadth toithe shoulders. We wish it might furnish a hint in this way about those monstrosities the Grenadier caps.— Hampshire Advertiser. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 24. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. NEW MEMBER. The Marquis of BLANDFORD took the oaths and his seat for Woodstock. Mr. DENNISTOUN presented petitions against the Prisons Bill, from the Magistrates and Councils of Glasgow, Rutherglen, and Renfrew; from the Glasgow Emancipatinn Society, against the admission of sugar produced by slave labour, and from the merchants and bankers of Glasgow, for the repeal of the Duties on Cotton Wool. MASTERS AND SERVANTS BILL. Mr. GIBSON presented a petition from Nottingham against the Master and Servants Bill. Mr. AGLIONBY presented a petition from Cocker mouth. Mr. DIVETT presented a petition from Exeter to the same effect. COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE BILLS. Mr. GREENE, as Chairman of the Committee of Se lection, begged leave to state to the House, that some in convenience had been occasioned to the persons inter ested in the Hull Docks Bill, in consequence of the agents not having received notice of the adjournment of the House and the Committee till Friday. That Com mittee had been appointed for Thursday, and as it could not sit on that day, he now moved that it should have leave to sit on Friday.—Ordered. An HON. MEMBER presented a petition from a place in Tyrone in favour of Presbyterian marriages. The British Iron Company Bill was read a third time and passed. SUGAR DUTIES. Mr. DIVETT presented a petition from Exeter, pray ing for the admission of sugar the produce of free labour. Lord HOWICK presented a similar petition from Sutherland. Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition to the same effect from Kendal. COAL DUTIES.-COTTON DUTY. Lord HOWICK presented a petition from the Town Council of Sunderland, praying for the repeal of the export duty on coal. Lord SANI)ON presented a petition from the manu facturers of Heywood, in Lancashire, praying for the repeal of the duty upon - the importation of raw cotton. THE CHARITABLE PAWN SOCIETY. The NOBLE LORD also presented a petition from the pawnbrokers of Liverpool against the Charitable Pawn Societies Act. Mr. HAWES presented a similar petition, but the names of the petitioners were not hciard in the gallery. Mr. TATTON EGERTON presented a petition against any alteration in the Bishoprics of Bangor and St. Asaph. Mr. DICKENSON presented a petition from a regis trar in Somersetshire, praying that Taunton might be placed in schedule C in the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill. NEW ZEALAND. Mr. AGLIONBY said, that on Friday evening last, when the estimates were before the Committee, a consi derable part of the discussion arose on the subject of New Zealand, the state of the colony, and the manage• mant of the Company's affairs. He then implored the Government to grant an inquiry, and the Noble Lord at the bead of the Colonial Department acknowledged that the matter was a very important one, and, as ha be lieved that the Noble Lord would not object to the ap pointment of a Select Committee, he now begged to move that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of the Colony of New Zealand, and the proceedings of the Company, the said Committee to re port its proceedings to the House. Mr. LABOUCHERE thought that the consent of the Colonial Secretary was not alone necessary. The House ought also to decide whether the subject was of impor tance enough fora Select Committee, and was entitled to have some notice of the motion. Mr. AGLIONBY said the blame of not having given notice was entirely- his own ; he would comply with the suggestion of the Hon. Member, and give notice of his motion for Friday next. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Sir R. PEEL moved that the House at its rising do adjourn till Friday next.—Agreed to. NOTICES OP MOTION. LORD LIEUTENANTCY OF IRELAND. Mr. HUMS gave notice that he would, on this day fortnight, bring forward the motion of which he had given notice respecting the abolition of the Lord Lieu tenantcy of Ireland. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL. Mr. BORTH WICK gave notice that, On the Motion for going into Committee on the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill, he would move that the House resolve itself into the same Committee on that day six months.—(Laughter.) FACADE OF THE - BRITISH MUSEUIII. MrTiiitTIILNES gave notice that, on Friday next, be would ask the Right lion. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury, as a trustee of the British Museum, whether the new façade bad been definitively agreed on; for, if not, he would move for a Select Committee to reconsider the plan. INFLUENCE OF PEERS IN ELECTIONS OF MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. T. DUNCO BE gave notice that on Thursday fortnight he would move for a Select Committee to in quire what persons had been, either directly or indi rectly, nominated through the influence of Peers or other persons, to sit for boroughs as Members of the House of Commons. SLAVE TRADE. Mr. M. MILNES gave notice that he would on Mon day move for a return of the number of British cruisers which had been employed from 1831 in the suppression of the slave trade ; also for a similar return with regard to French cruisers. COLONIAL ESTIMATES. Mr. HUME said that two nights ago, in the dis cussion on the colonial estimates, it had been agreed that certain returns should be made relating to colonial in come and expenditure. Those returns would be very voluminous. He, however, had prepared a digest of returns, which would be much less voluminous, but which would answer all the purpose, and he therefore begged leave to move for them.—Agreed to. SINKING FLTND. Mr. HUME 'would move, if the motion were not ob jected to, for returns of the amount of the Sinking Fund; of the sums which had been voted from that fund; of the various purposes to which those amounts had been ap propriated; and of the sum to which the Sinking Fund would have amounted if those appropriations had not taken place. Sir GEORGE CLERK thought the Hon. Gentleman had better give notice. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to know when the Ec clesiastical Courts Bill would be brought on. It stood in the Orders for Monday next. Dr. NICHOLL intended to move on Monday that the Bill be committed pro forma in order to enable the House to get through the money clauses awarding com pensation. Mr. BORTHWICK had already given a notice on the subject. If he allowed the House to go into Committee pro forma, he should lose his right, and he therefcro gave notice that when the Hon. and Learned Gentleman should move the commitment of the Bill, he should pro pose his amendment. PRIVITIGE.--AR7FERRAgIYS ACCUSATIONS. Sir JAMES GRAHAM rose and said —Sir, I rise to address the House on a case of privilege. At the same time, I may truly state, I think, both on the part of my Hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and myself, that I am extremely unwilling to occupy any portion of the time of the House in hearing a statement on a purely persona l matter. If I could have regarded it merely as a personal matter I should have hesitated long before I brought it before the attention of the House; but, as I said yesterday, I feel strongly, that whatever concerns any Hon. Member of this House, is indissolubly connected with this House itself, and, after what occurred on Monday and yesterday, lam satisfied that the deliberate opinion and dispassionate judgment of the House is, that the matter then considered cannot be allowed to rest where it now is. The course with respect to the case of the Hon. Member for Beverley that has been pointed out for adoption is, that certain passages of his speech, purport ing to be delivered by the Hon. Member for Knaresbo rough, and published in the Times newspaper of Wed-' nesday, the 10th of April last, should be read. These passages contained, first, the charge against myself, and, secondly, the charge which applies both to the Hon. Member for Beverley and myself. Ido not think it right to add more now, and I deem that I shall best discharge my duty—and I believe my Hon. Friend concurs with me in that opinion—by laying the two passages on the table for the purpose of having them read by the Clerk. The Clerk at the table then read the following pas sage :—" The meeting should remember that no man had resisted the poor-law more vigorously than Mr. Walter, and it therefore was felt necessary by Sir James Graham to get him unseated. Against that gentleman's (Mr. Walter's) return a petition had been presented, and in that petition an allega tion was made that between thirty and forty pounds had been improperly expended. His speech went on to say that the Committee to try this petition consisted of three Whigs and of three Tories, and its Chairman was Mr. Hogg, the Member for Beverley, one of the most pure boroughs in the kingdom, but whether he (Mr. Hogg) got his seat for forty pounds or not, he (Mr. Forrand) did not exactly know. This Tory Chairman, aided by Sir James Graham, unseated Mr. Walter. Mr. Hogg tried to explain away his con duct on that occasion, and all the Government side of the House, on which I sat, listened with feelings of dis gust while he 'higgled and haggled' in that explanation. There was but one man on that side of the House who vociferously cheered, and that one man was Sir James Graham.' When the Clerk had done reading, The SPEAKER said—ls the Hon. Member for Knares borough in his place ? No answer being returned, Sir R. PEEL said—Sir, I believe I am acting in con formity with general usage in undertaking, on account of the position in which I have the honour to be plseed in this House, as the head of her Majesty's Government, respectfully to tender to the House my opinion as to the course which it will be desirable to take.—(Hear, hear.) I advised the House, in the course of yesterday evening, when this subject was under consideration, to permit an interval to elapse before they came to any decision, in order that there might be the opportunity during that interval for each Member, taking an interest in this case, to refer to the precedents which have been established in cases at all of an analogous nature. The position in which we are now placed is this— that two Members of this House,considering ttHohohut have their ovefite, tht character bhaae iysepon cuob thoughtp ulrinetrrenmeeting, is affected nittndagigna,atreported ehrnpies attributed b ur y ttteeh d c d h mi tan exerciser g ioann e o s Aefarot n ehf • n ishetphiibecreeehe. appea r right, newspa pers deli vered o Members of Parliament, to place col the table a the of Sousatls as , THURSDAY EVENING, APRIL 28; 11044. the passage of which they complain, in order that the House may take that course which may appear to be the best. That is the position in which we are placed. I have referred, Sir. during the interval which has elapsed since this subject was last under our considera tion, to the cases in recent times which appear to bear upon this. I think the three principal cases are, the case of the complaint preferred by Lord Maid stone against Mr. O'Connell, the application made to the House by Mr. She'l, the Right Hon. Gentleman, who is now a Member of this House, for the vindication of his character against certain charges, which were b roug h t aga i nst hi m i n a speec h delivered by a Member of this House, Mr. Hill, at a ' public meeting; and the third case i‘s • a complaint made by the Hon. Member for Warrington, Mr. Blackburn, against a • gentleman who had been unseated by the report of a Select Com mittee—Mr. Poulter. Those are the cases in recent times, which appear to have an immediate bear ing upon our proceedings in the present instance. Sir, I will not point out the nice distinctions. which may exist between these several cases and the present. The con clusion which I have • drawn from the course pur sued on the whole of these occasions is this, that it would be right upon the present occasion to re solve that this House wiil take the complaint, which has now been made by two of its Members, into consi deration on Friday next.—(Bear, hear.) "My respect ful advice to the. House is, that we shall proceed in this case with strict adherence to all established formalities —that we shall give no . party any right to complain that we are taking advanvantage of admissions casually made by him, or that we are acting precipitately, or have refused to a low him an opportunity of explaining anything which he may have said. I think that, in the course of yesterday, the Hon. Mem ber for Knaresborough did distinctly admit that the paragraph complained of contaitiod a correct report of his speech. He also stated that he was prepared to abide by the charge which that paragraph alleges to have been made. Still, although he made that admission, he did not conclude the speech he was then delivering ; and it is posSible that had that speech been brought to a con clusion, some mitigating statements would have been made by him, which lie had not an opportunity of making. I think th at str i ct j ust i ce wou ld in cline me to advise that we should not take advantage of admissions made under such circumstances. —(Cheers.) I should advise that we resolve to take the matter of this complaint into consideration on Friday next ; and I would combine that resolution with another, namely, that the Hon. Member for Kaaresborough should attend in his place on Friday next, for the pur pose of hearing that paragraph read to him by the Speaker, in order that he "may,stete . whether or not he admits this report to be a correct report of what ho said ; and I think also that we ought to give him an opportunity of establishing the charges which he has made.—(Cheers.) If he admits the report, and if he states that he is in a condition to prove it, and that he is willing to prove the charges "hich he has preferred, my advice to the House is to give him an unreserved opportunity of doing so. I would not assume the falsity of the report, but I would advise the House to be willing to accept the proof and to appoint a Select Committee for the purpose of enabling the Hon. Member to substantiate his charges. I will discuss no other contingencies, and I trust that I have spoken as becomes my position in giving my advice to the House. I want to act most dispassionately, and my advice is to act with all due regard to established forms; and I there• fore content myself by moving, that the House take this complaint into consideration on Friday next, and if the House should affirm that resolution, I will move that the Member to whom this speech was attributed do attend in his place on that day. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I rise merely to say, that I entirely concur in the course now proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman. I think I cannot do better than refrain from saying a single word more respecting it, as I think a better course could not be pursued under the circumstances.—(Cheers.) Mr. FRENCH—The impression on my mind is, that the words which have been just read to the House do not bear out the charges which have been made by the lion. Member for Knaresborough. I cannot see that the passage in the Times bears out the charge that the Right Hon. Baronet opposite tampered with the Hon. Member for Beverley, and as to the charge against the Right Hon. Gentleman, I can only say that the Right Hon. Gentleman did read the document which had been got up by Mr. Mott, and which document, if the public papers speak the truth, was acknowledged to be false and Mr. Mott has since been dismissed from his office.— (Hear.) I think that as far as the lion. Member for Beverley is concerned, he must have perceived from the cheering of the House that hiseharacter stands altogether unimpeached.—(Hear, hear.) As to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, I must admit that he lifts the mis fortune of not being able to control his tongue.—(Loud cheers, and laughter.) But I thi n k i t i s a dangerous precedent that a Minister of the Crown, backed by a majority of the House, should be able to put down any man who ventured to bring a charge against him. On that ground I must object to the motion.—(Hear.) Sir R. PEEL said—Sir, the lion. Gentleman has altogether mistaken the course which I meant to pursue. I have propOsed a resolution to the effect, that the House shall consider the charge, and shall give the Hon. Mem ber a full opportunity of proving its truth.—(Hear.) Mr. DUNCOMBE was not quite sure that they were going according to precedent. He thought that it was the proprietor or printer of the newspaper who should be called to the bar in this case. The Noble Lord opposite (Lord Stanley) had gone rather too far when he said that the Hon. Member must have known when he made the charge, that it was untrue. The course proposed by the Right Hop. Secretary for the Home Department would haVe • been the best, to have the words of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough taken down—(Hear, hear)—without going through the intermediate process of reading a newspaper.—(Hear, hear.) Ile did not meats to justify in the slightest degree the speech of the Hon. Member, nor did he think there was the slightest ground for the accusation. But he must also recollect that the two gentlemen impugned had allowed ten days to pass over without noticing the charges, instead of calling the accuser to account on the first day after the recess, which was what he (Mr. Duncombe) had expected when he read the speech._(Hear, hear.) No doubt the charge was calumnious, and, as it was made in the pre s,,nce of thousands, no time should have been lost in calling for explanation in the House on the first op. portunity.—(llear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Be verley had said that he had been advised by his friends to treat the charge with silent contempt.—(Hear.) In his opinion the advice so given was sound and good. But then another Hon. Member, totally unconnected with the matter—whose name had never been brought forward in relation to it—got up and said to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough (Mr. Ferrand), " Pray, Sir, did you say so and so?"—(Laughter.) Now, in answer to that question, had he (Mr. Buncombe) been the per son interrogated, he should have said, " Pray, Sir, what business is that of yours?"—(Loud laughter and cheers.) He should, however, if interrogated by certain of the Hon. Gentlemen, certainly have given them the satis . faction th e y had a right to ask, either in that House or out of it. But they not choosing to ask it, he . really had not been able to see what right any other Honourable Member had to ask it for them.—(Loud cheers.) But the ques tion having been put, they had now to deal with a state ment which h a d been avowed, and they were doing so in a very round-about way. In his opinion, the most proper course now to pursue was to re fer the matter to a Committee of three or five Mem bers —aye,' and lie would not object to the lion. Member for Knaresborough himself nominating that Committee. If, before that Committee, he refused to substantiate his accusations, or if, in that Corn.. mittee, he failed in substantiating his charges, then it would be for the House to exercise its undoubted au thority should not that Hon. Gentleman—as he hoped he would do, and ai he (Mr. Buncombe) would not hesitate to do—at once withdraw the charges he might be un able to substantiate, and express Ins regret for making assertions for which there was no foundation.—(Cheers.) Mr. DISRAELI said he had been a member of the Nottingham Committee, and could bear witness to the utter groundlessness of the charges brought against the Hon. Member for Beverley.—(tlear, hear.) No man's conduct could have been more satisfactory. True he (Mr. D'lsraeli) differed in opinion with the Honourable Gentleman, • but he never for one moment questioned the conscienciousness of his deci sions. With regard to Mr. Ferrand, he entirely dis. approved of the course he had lately been pursuing in the country. He disagreed as to the spirit he evinced and the tone he used towards the master-manufacturers. He acknowledged them to be an order of men second in importance to none ; but in treating this subject as the House seemed now inclined to treat it, he thought they were taking a very injudicious course, and one of which they would repent. There were two courses open to the Hon. Member for Beverley. Having felt that the charge ought to be noticed, he might have asked some friend, some man of sense, temper, and firmness, to have applied to the lion. Member for Knaresborough. He knew that some gentlemen thought that an appeal of this kind immediately led to Wimbledon-common and pistols ; but he believed that in 990 cases out of a thousand this was not the case. If the affair had been entrusted to an individual of that character, it was impossible but the result must have been satisfactory to the Hon. Member for Beverley, and not degrading to the Honourable Member for Knaresborough. But there was another course open to the Honourable Member for Be verley. He might have thrown himself upon the House, and might have asked it to give him its protection in his official character.—(" So he did.") But the Hon. Gentleman did neither ; lie neither made a public nor private complaint on the subject. The mat ter was brought forward by the Hon. Gentleman who as sumed the office in that House of public prosecutor. — (Ministerial cheers). He brought i t f orwar d without the least notice, without affording the object of it, that golden bridge which the social spirit and social usages usually furnished to every one in similar cir cumstances—lie brought it forward without giving the slightest opportunity for accommodation.---(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Roebuck.) The Hon. Member for Bath seemed to exult is the effect he had produced ; he totally , disapproved of the conduct of the Member for Knares borough; he knew the imputation he made to be false and frivolous, but nothing would exceed the indecorous conduct of' the House if it assumed the judicial character, in what was anything but a judicial spirit. The charge was suddenly made by the Hon. Member for Bath, attended with sarcasms—not very successful ones, indeed, but such as showed the disposi tion to be present, though the hand of the master might not be very apparent. The Honourable Member for Beverley had not thought proper, either in his private or public capacity, to appeal to the Honour able Member for Knaresborough. The affair was precipitated on the notice of the House , and the very o be the judicial ' ht brodytiothnantot was _r4119 Right lign. 134Fonot httti t tQ-n1.6 , in decidet a o ccnrd an accordance e t o q N t s ie h s a t t i question l b ia e d liev sh ed ow t a d t is e - i !endeavoured to retore some degree of order to their proceedings, and to invest the course they were taking with some degree of dignity and decorum. • But the question was, after wasting two nights on this subject, whether, after the extract had been read at the table, they should not go a step further, and let the matter fall altogether to the ground. They were now entering I on the question of what limits ought to be drawn in public discussion. In case of any charge made in that House, was the House to convert itself into a court of honour to decide upon it ? There was sufficient power to keep a speaker in order in that individual responsibility which attached to every man. He had heard graver charges than any which were made by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He had heard last session the leader of the House of Commons charge an Hon. Gentleman opposite with making speeches which would lead to assassination. —(Hear, hear.) How was the Right Honourable Gentleman treated ? Was he howled at and hooted down ? No ; Hon. Gentleman opposite sunk before the accusation in a manner which told little for their spirit.—(Laughter, and " hear, hear.") But, in this instance, because the individual was obnoxious to them, he was treated in a different manner. He did not agree with the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He entirely disapproved of the course he had taken. He objected to the spirit which animated his remarks. But because that Hon. Member was obnoxious, • and because he was not backed the moment he made this charge he was baited. —( Hear, hear.) Gentleman after gentleman got up and asked him, " Why did you say this ?" If the Hon. Member had the common courtesy of society exercised towards him, he would have had an opportunity of extricating himself from the painful position in which he was placed.—(Hear, hear.) It had been said that the Hon. Gentleman had flown from the tribunal. He (Mr. Disraeli) was not at all surprised that he did not wish that tribunal to decide the question. He had no communication with him on the subject, except for one moment when he was passing out of the House, on which occasion he told him that he had a bad case and a worse tribunal.—(Laughter.) That was his (Mr. Disraeli's) opinion. Ho believed the Honourable Member for Knaresborough had not de ferred to the tribunal, but had demurred to it. He considered it was unnecessary for him to enter into any explanations with the House, but that individuals who thought themselves offended would take their own course. He did not consider that this quarrel should be made the quarrel of the House of Commons, or that the House should convert itself into a court of honour.—(Hear, hear.) The practical question for them to consider was—whether the House ought to establish so dangerous a precedent. The ques tion between the Hon. Member and the Right Hon. Gen tleman was very different from that between him and the Hon. Member for Beverley.—(Hear.) He had heard the Hon Member for Knaresborough, on several occasions, enter into the Mott question and the Keightly Union, and he had heard the Right Hon Gentleman the Secre tary of State for the Home Department. and the Right Honourable Gentleman at the head of the Government, answer him, and enter upon all the details. He never could depict to himself any clear idea with regard to that involved and implicated transaction. All he could understand was, that there had been a sub commission who bad made a report which had been brought forward. That the transaction was involved in obscure and suspicious circumstances, no one could deny, but it was absurd to suppose that the Right:Hon. Gentle man should make such a perverted use of his power for so slight an object.—(Cheers and laughter.) But it should be remembered that this was the case of a Member of Parliament of warm feelings, who was not supported by any great party, who imagined that an attempt had been made by a Minister of the Crown to put him down, and that he had resisted that attempt. They should make some allowance for the exaggerations which excited feelings and pardonable vanity—(Cheers and laughter) —would naturally induce a Member under those circum. stances to make use of while addressing the masses of the operative community with which he deeply sympathised. What could be more natural than that he should say, " I did this ; I said this? An attempt was made to put me down by a Minister of the Crown, who drew from a green box an unpublished report, but it would not do, I was not to be crushed." Are we, Sir (continued the Hon. Gentleman), come to such a pass that a Member of Parliament was not to be allowed to say this?—(lronical cheers, and laughter.) Was it for a great statesman like the Right lion. Gentleman, to come forward with a demure countenance and say, -" the State is in danger, there's something rotten in the state of Denmark ? The House of Commons must interfere to vindicate the reputation of this strong (even if not popular) Ministry." —(Loud cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Gen tleman did not appear at first disposed to move in the subject, and if it had not been for the attack on the Hon. Member for Beverley, he thought they would never have heard of the great Mott case.—(Cheers and laughter.)- He declared solemnly that he had never read the speech of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, he had never heard it read until he bad heard it read with unusual powers of elocution by the Learned Clerk at the table.—(Laughter.) He had paid great attention to it, and he confessed that he had been astonished at the weakness of the assault. He really thought that on that occasion, when addressing the masses and the mil lions, the Hon. Member for Knaresborough had lost a great deal of that impassioned fervour which usually characterised his addresses.—(Cheers and laughter.) It appeared to him that he did not attack the Hon. Mem ber for Beverley, absent, with half the furor which he ex hibited in attacking the Hon. Member for Stockport, present.—(Hear.) He really thought that they might with as much reason have had the speeches which he made almost every night, read at the table, and then have had the Secretary of State solemnly moving a resolution on the subject. Now, he thought this subject had been treated by one great master in the right spirit, He thought that when the Right Hon. Gentleman, with that historical research which he al ways displayed, called their attention to the case of the bottle conjuror, he hit the right nail on the head.— (Laughter.) He was surprised after the admirable example which the Right Hon. Gentleman had set to find him followed as he had been by the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire. There was always something very chivalric about the Noble Lord ; but when they wished to exhibit a perfect model for the lion. Member for Knaresborough—when they wished to teach him what should be the spirit of Parliamentary discussion, and how an Honourable Member of that House should hesitate before he made a statement that could not be proved, he was rather surprised to find the Noble Lord, the Member for North Lancashire, get up, and, in his zeal for his Right Hon. Friend, denounce the statements made by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough as fake and calumnious, and announce that the Hon. Member for Knaresborough was conscious that they were false and calumnious when he made them. That was an example which the Hon. Member for Knaresborough would probably study as a model ; and when he returned to that House and re sumed his place, they would probably find his speeches distinguished by that amenity of manner, and choice selection of conciliatory expressions, which always cha racterised the speeches of the Noble Lord.—(Laugh ter.) So it always was with the speeches of the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire. He destroyed Mr. Ferrand first, and destroyed his own po sition afterwards. He was the Prince Rupert of Parlia mentary discussion. His charge was resistless, but when he returned, his camp was always in the possession of the enemy.—(Laughter.) Then, as if all the great guns were not sufficient to sink this unfortunate craft, the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department. keeping up the solemn spirit of the farce, rose and said " This is the British House of Commons, and not the hustings." A gentleman might tell lies upon the hustings, but he was not to tell lies in th e H ouse . This was the political morality of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department.—(Hear.) Now lie entirely differed • from the Right Hon. Gentle man. He did not think they ought to tell lies on the hustings —(Hear, hear.) He thought a gentleman ought to be as measured' in what he said on the hustings as in what ho said in the House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.) And he would even go further than that, and would say that a gentle man ought not to make pledges on the hustings which ho did not mean to redeem in that House. He did not think that gentlemen on the hustings ought to denounce the New Poor-law, and come into the House of Commons and vote fur it.—(Laughter and cheers.)• lie called that corrupt and unprincipled conduct— (Cheers)—and if any Honourable Gentleman in that House felt that he was guilty of this conduct, let hiin propose a vote of censure upon him (Mr. D'lsraeli) for uttering such a sentiment.—(Great laughter.) On Friday next, the Hon. Member for Knaresborough was to come into that House, if he accepted the lenient alternative of the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government, and they were to recommence the proceedings of which they had had two rehearsals.—(Laughter.) Whether the piece would succeed after the initiatory proceedings he could not take upon himself to decide, but he did know that any attempt in that House, whether it was right or whether it was wrong, to hunt down an individual had never succeeded, but had always terminated to the disadvantage of the persons attempting it. He remembered what another Sir Robert, who was not a greater man than the present Sir Robert, said with respect to a similar subject. That Sir Robert said, " I am quite tired of roasting a parson." After his experience with Mr. Stockdale, and after his contest with the sheriffs, when, as on the present occasion, he was supported by the Noble Lord the Member for London, who had rather withdrawn of late - his support from the Government, he (Mr. Disraeli) thought the Right Lion. Baronet was taking a good humoured view of this case—a bottle-conjurer view of it—and said—" Why, really, after what has occurred, we ought to allow the matter to drop, feeling quite aware that Mr. Ferrand has already re ceived a great moral lesson, and that when he appears on the hustings in future, I doubt not that he will re member the advice of the Right Hon. Baronet the Se cretary of State, and always be as cautious as he is in the House of Commons."—(Cheers and laughter.) Captain BERKLEY could not agree with the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat, down in recommending that the two Hon. Gentlemen who were most interested should make this t personal 'quarrel. Such a doctrine was most extraordinary, to say the least of it. H e C apt. Berkeley) hoped that he would be the last in that House to offer one word of offence to any Hon. Gentleman ; but if he ever should do so, he would be ready to apologise fur it the next moment. He never would attempt to make a personal quarrel out of any thing which had taken plac e in hi s public character. Perhaps, in the first instance, silent contempt would have been the best cure ; but when, after twenty-four hours' deliberation, the H on . Member for Knitreshor,augh came down yesterday and pledge,d himself to the truth •f his charge, de4aving thhts lie would not retract a single word—(Hear, hear)—under these circumstances tit 4id not ink that it would be.for the dignity of the House that the matter should be allowed to drop.— (Cheers.) It must be in the recollection of every gen tleman in the House that the Hon. Alember for Knares borough had been cheered on in the most vociferous manner by a set of gentlemen who, whenever the Honourable Gentleman indulged in any coarse language levelled against the Members of the League, or the Opposition of that House, encouraged him by thei r " sweet voices."—(Cheers and laughter.) These were, in a great measure, the party answerable for the scrape in which he had now got. It was very aptly remarked by a gentleman on that (the Opposition) side of the House, that the Hon. Member. 'for Knaresborough had been kept like a dog chained up to check the manufac turers, and that', having broken his chain,he turned round and worried his master.—(Cheers and laughter.) Lord JOHN MANNERS said it had been his inten tion when he came into the House, if any vote of cen sure should have been proposed, to move the previous question, and he now thought that it would be the best course fur him to make that motion as an amendment upon the preSent question.—(Hear, hear.) First, on general grounds, because he was not prepared to agree in the proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department, that the House was bound in every case to interfere in quarrels between in dividual Members, and to decide which was right, and which was wrong. There seemed then, to be two courses of procedure—the one which was recognised by the law of the land—there was an appeal to the courts of justice, to which even at the present moment the Hon. Member for Knaresborough was amenable—the second was that course of procedure which had been indicated by the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury.—(Great laughter.) He wished to refer to the particular question as it affected the Hon. Member for Beverley (Mr. Hogg). Nothing, he could assure the House, was further from his intention than to question the honour and integrity of either the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hogg) or of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department. Having acquitted himself of any such intention, he must beg the House to reflect upon what was the direct. charge said to have been brought with respect to the Hon. Member for Beverley (Mr. Hogg). As that charge had been stated by him (Mr. Hogg), it was to the effect that that Hon. Gentleman had been in fluenced in his duty by the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham), in order to do an injustice to another Hon. Member. Now he (Mr. Hogg), in reading the passage of which he complained, said that, in a court of justice, such passage would be judged as to its obvious meaning, and as to the ordinary a cc e pt a ti on o f th e words used. He (Lord J. Manners) protested most strongly against such a line of argument. The House ought to take that charge in its literal acceptation, and not to put one and one together in order to cumulate an offence. Such a course he considered to be essentially unfair. They could only take the speech in its literal sense, and, that they might judge it in its literal sense, he would take leave again to read it to the House. (The Noble Lord here read the speech in question.) Now, was there in these words any imputation of dishonourable motives on the Member for Beverley ?—(Oh, oh.) Gentlemen behind him cried " Oh, oh," and such might be their opinion. But, from the tone of all the altercation, he believed that the Right Hon. Baronet was very glad that Mr. Walter was unseated—that Mr. Walter was turned out of Parliament. Mr. Hogg was the Chairman of the Committee by which Mr. Walter was unseated. Still, he believed that the charges against the Member for Beverley were unfounded. As to the other part of the question, as . the Right Hon. Baronet had himself said that he should wish the matter to rest where it was, he thought the House would be justified in letting it drop. As he denied the right of the Hon. Member for Bath to get the House to prosecute others just - when he might please to interfere, he should therefore move the previous question as an amendment on the motion before the House. Mr. SMYTHE seconded the amendment. In doing so, he disclaimed any concurrence in the opinions ex pressed by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He believed that the course he had taken on the Factory ques tion was pernicious and illusive ; nor did he believe that the Noble Member for Dorsetshire wished to use any in direct means of crushing any political opponent whatever. He could afford to say that the straightforward conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet on the factory agitation question had been not among th e l eas t o f the signal proofs of the great administrative ability of that Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) That hallucination of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough with regard to the Right Hon. Gentlemen the Secretary of State for the Home Department could only be paralleled by his hal lucination with regard to the Commissioners. He be lieved that the Hon. Gentleman was in earnest. With respect to what fell from the Prime Minister re garding the appointment of a Committee before which Mr. Ferrand was to be called, ho did not think that Committee desirable, because the difference was not about a question of fact, but a question of motives. The Hon. Member for Knaresborough had no more facts to adduce than what he had adduced. In the case of. the Hon. Member for Beverley, he believed that, so far from having been influenced by any vicious or un worthy motive, that Hon. Member was influenced by an outrageous sense of public virtue. (Great laughter.) The House had affirmed the decision of the Committee, and so declared that the Hon. Member, who paid 401. for a vote, could not have a seat in the British Legis lature. The Hon. Member for Beverley had certainly shown more than Roman virtue, and the House had shown more than Roman effrontery ; because, unlike the Roman augurs, they could look one another in the face without laughiug.—(A laugh.) Hon. Members would find it difficult to give proofs of their belief to that House, though they might believe very firmly. What Hon. Member could take it upon himself to bring for ward proofs of the correctness of his belief ?—( A laugh)—even the most general sort of belief ? Could the Hon. Member for Tamworth give proofs of his be lief ?—(Great laughter.) The Hon. Member for Fins bury believed in the six points of the Charter. Could he'adduce proofs of his belief? Mr. DUNCOMBE—Yes, certainly.—(Laughter.) Mr. SMYTHE would be very curious to hear such an exposition. The whole of this mischief had origi nated with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Mem ber for Bath, and the whole of that Hon. Member's conduct certainly seemed something like an understand ing between purity and power. If he were called upon to justify that belief he could only say that he had been induced to form it by an attentive observation of the political career of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.— (Cheers.) He was not to be deceived by his mock sympathy with a spurious patriotism.—(Cheers.) He was assailing all, yet sparing one.—(Loud cheers.) He was assaulting all, yet fawning upon one. He was constantly saying, if I were not the Diogenes of Bath, I would be the Alexander of Tamworth.—(Loud cheers.) The Hon. Member for Bath had taken the Hon. Member for Knaresborough by surprise ; he had taken the House by surprise; he had taken the country by surprise; for he doubted not but that the country would feel surprised when they saw the House'postp(?n ing the consideration of the poor-law to enter, at his in stigation, upon these paltry personalities.—(Cheers.) The country would be the more surprised at this, be cause they saw the Hon. and Learned Gentlemanuniting in his own person the most perfect antithesis, being at the same the rebels' agent 'and the Queen's counsel— the champion of Papineau and the champion of the Secretary of State.—(Cheers.) Sir R. INGLIS wished that the advice of his Right Hon. Friend, with regard to this debate, had been taken in the first instance, and that he should not have had such an authority as his Noble Friend behind him asserting that there were but two courses which, under the circumstances, could be pursued, either to refer to a court of law, or to have recourse to the other remedy, which had been not obscurely hinted at by another Hon. Member. It appeared from these statements that it was necessary either to have recourse to the law or to violate the law. He (Sir R. Inglis), however, thought there was another course open. That course was the course taken by the House on the three former occasions to which his Right Hon. Friend had referred, establishing the precedents upon which he asked the House then to act. He could hardly think that he had misunderstood his Noble Friend, considering the interest with which he always listened to what fell from him ; but, considering the principles to which he adverted, he thought he was called upon to approve the conclusion to which he ap peared to have come. _ - Mr. Hume and Mr. Roebuck rose together to address the House. There being repeated calls for the latter, Mr. Hume withdrew. Mr. ROEBUCK said he feared that he should disap point the House; he was going to speak to the question. —(Laughter.) It struck him that the position of the question was a very simple one, and if the House would permit him he would state what he conceived it to be in three words. A Member of that House had charged a Minister of the Crown with improperly using the powers of his office, for the purpose of getting a report made to that House which was false, to the end that he might crush a Member of that House. That charge was made in the heari ng wentf the House by a Member of the House. He furt her_a_ on to say that the same Minister of the Crown_h d em ployed his influence with a Mem ber forget the oath which be had g iv en .t _ to of atdmhatinffisoteursjus tice, ) and On e to t h return t of fn these un tr u o h e a v rg e r o d; .ca motion(C r verd i ct.—(Cries ‘ m ‘ d o e , in remind the thaend*oboesfoohreowhethenoethicaergde tehaememhoetfioenre, it.he oTuld that whole of the mischief," said an Hon. Member, " is attributable to the Hon. Member for Bath." Now he had thought fit to ask the Hon. Member for Knaresbo rough if he had made a certain accusation ? That Hon. Member complained of his not having given him notice ; , but he at once affirmed that he had made the charg e, and he also repeated it. Were he to cha rge the Hon. Member opposite with robbery, surelyheha would er not say. given noticecomplained o f the of h ge. The H th o a u t . he m o e u m g h h e t r to have r e Knaresborough want of notice, but he a d m i tte d that he had made the charge, and he repeated the words which he had used on a former occasion. The words were these. The Ho nourable Member admitted that he used the words attri buted to him in the newspa pers. — (Hear, h ear .) H o w could he (Mr. Roebuck) These called o weren to make eh c h a rges s which a defence for the part h e h a d taken ? e were worth repeating, but before he should think them worth while to refute they must come in a more formi dable manner than those made against him (Mr. Roebuck) by the other side.—(Cheers,) The Neble Lord did not seem to understand the extent of his own proposition of " the previous question." The effect was that the House gave no opinion upon - the subject.—(Cheers.) But when a Member of that House charged a Minister of the Crown with having used his power to crush a Mem ber of that House, had they come to this pass that the House would express no opinion of the charge ?—(Hear.) It had been said that they were bullying and running down the Member for Knaresborough. Why all the bully ing and running down was on the other side.—(Hear.) He 110 thought it was his duty, after he read the accu sation, to take the first opportunity, when he saw the Member for Knaresborough in his place, to call on him to prove the truth of his charge---(Hear)—and he thought that no honest man would make such charges without being able to prove them,=-(Hear.) The House gave him an opportunity of substantiating his charges—. lie again admitted the charges, and then fled from the accusation. The House, however, in its sense of justice, said—" No, we will determine nothing now, bat the Honourable Gentleman shall have a further oppportunity of explaining himself."—(Hear, hear.) Ile should wish to know, what the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury, and the Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Manners) meant by gentlemanly arrangement ? Why, he thought no other interpretation could be put upon his words, than that the charges should be substantiated by the pistol. What else could be understood, when he said the Hon. Member for Beverley should apply to a friend, who would at once get him out of any difficulty. He ( \lr. Roebuck) thought that after what had oc curred in this House within the last two months, Such a suggestion was most disgraceful to those who made it. It had been said that this question was too in significant to take up the time of the House. Let them see how the matter stood. One Hon. Member rose in his place and accused another before the House and the country of acting corruptly. Again, he made a charge against a Minister of the Crown of exercising the in fluence of his office for a similar end, and therefore he thought this was a matter which called for the special interference of the House.—(Cheers.) Mr. SMYTHE said the Hon. Member who had just sat down had made assertions which could not be sub. stantiated.—(Here the cries of " Order" and " Chair" became so loud as to render the Hon. Member inaudible, although by his gesticulation we could see that he was speaking with considerable Warmth.) Ldrd HOWICK said he should strongly deprecate the mode of settling this question which was suggested by the Noble Lord opposite. He thought the House was acting moat unwisely in carrying this matter any fur ther ; and his reason for coming to this conclusion was, because he knew that the House felt the charge to be utterly groundless and deserving of contempt, and there fore he hoped it would take no further notice of it. If they took any other course, they were bound to con sider the consequences that might arise here after. Al though no one, for a moment, could imagine the slightest foundatio4 for the present accusation, yet it was possible thatait a future period some Minis ter of the Crown might exercise his powers in such a manner as to call for the intervention of the House, and by passing the vete now proposed, it would bo establish ing a precedent which would deter any Member of that House from bringing the matter forward. The man, he thought, who made an accusation which he could not substantiate, laid himself open to that degree of con tempt and ignominy from that House and the country which would be quite sufficient _punishment for him if he possessed the feelings of a man or a gentleman. If the public were satisfied upon this matter without any resolution, he could see no good that was likely to arise from passing it. He could not see that great difference between a false accusation made against an individual Member of that House and a Minister of the Crown. The House would remember that the Hon. Member for Knaresborough had made aa attack upon the Hon. Member for Stockport a short time since, when he accused him of acting contrary to law, and compelling his labourers to adopt the truck system. In that case nothing was done, yet the House was perfectly convinced of the falsehood of the charge. They had already occupied too much of their time with this subj ect.—( Hear and laughter.) He again repeated that while there were legislative measures of great import to the country pending it was ridiculous in them to waste their time in investigating this trumpery charge. He felt the present charge was utterly false. But nevertheless he did not wish to establish a precedent which would have the effect of preventing the Members of that House from criticising the acts of Ministers of the Crown when their conduct was such as to call for criticism. He should conclude by expressing his hope that the House would decline any further interference in the matter. Mr. HUME said he was never more surprised than at what had fallen from the Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland. He argued as if the Hon. Member fer Knaresborough were the only person concerned in this matter. Mr. Ferrand had made a gross charge against a Member of this House, and that Hon. Member sought the protection of the House. The Noble Lord had used the word " contempt." Now, against no man in that House had so many charges been made as against him (Mr. Hume), and he invariably treated them with contempt on account of their contemptible nature ; but this was not a case to be treated with contempt. An accusation had been brought against an Hon. Member, that he was guilty of aiding in getting rid of Mr. Walter from the House, because he was troublesome to Minis ters on account of his motions concerning the poor-law. This assertion had been made, and was believed by a great number of persons, and therefore, there was a direct and tangible charge against the Hon. Member for Beverley and the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department. Under this conviction, he thought the case deserving of the special notice of the House. Sir J. GRAHAM certainly was of opinion that when such a change as this was was brought fcrward by any Hon. Member, it was the duty of the House to interfere. The Hon. Member for Knaresborough had made a deliberate charge against certain Members of the House, aid, after an interval of twenty-four hours, when he ought to have had time for due and mature consideration,he reiterated it; and that charge was a most serious one, so far as a Minister of the Crown was concerned, namely, that he had used his influence in that capacity for cor rupt purposes. With respect to the charge which had been made against his lion. Friend the Member for Beverley, he thought that nothing could be mere utterly groundless or false. Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought it would be much better if the further discussion of this matter was dropped for the present. With respect to the observations of the Noble Lord opposite, he thought it would be as well if they, or any future ones which he might have to make, should be deferred until the time appointed for the fur ther discussion of this subject, namely, next Friday. Mr. HOGG concurred in wh a t bAd been just ex pressed. He thought it would be much better not to press for any discussion until Friday. Lord J. MANNERS said, that after what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary for the Home Department, and also from the Noble Lord, he felt it his duty to withdraw his motion. He would just take that opportunity of stating that, in what he had said that evening, he had not intended in the remotest degree to advocate the practice of duelling, as the Hon. Member for Bath had charged him with. The amendment was then withdrawn, and the origi na l motion, after a few words from Lord INGESTRE, was agreed to. COUNTY CORONERS BILL. The House then went into Committee on this Bill. Clauses Ito . 6 were agreed to. Mr. HUME then objected to the Bill proceeding be fore such a thin House, and moved that the Chairman report progress. After a, short conversation, the motion was agreed to, the Chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Wednesday next. Mr. F. FRENCH was then proceeding to submit a motion respecting the Dublin Jury Lists, when An HON. MEMBER moved that the House be counted, and there being but 23 Members present, the House ad journed at a Quarter to Eight. LLOYD'S SHIPPING. THE CURRENTS OF THE OCEAN. The following, enclosed in a bottle, was picked up in the port of Isabella, on the north coast of Porto Rico, on the 18th March last, and has been forwarded to Lloyd's; " Mer 15, 1838, EIGHT P.m.—Her Majesty's ship Andromache, at sea in lat. 47 deg. 10 min. N., lon. 34 deg. 50 min. W., out six days from Plymouth—left Scilly at nino A.M. of the 10th inst. " During the last two days have experienced a strong southerly current of one knot per hour. This bottle is thrown overboard to ascertain the set of the current, and it is requested that the person into whoso hands it may fall will cause the circumstance, with particulars, to be published for the benefit of navigation." (Signed by the Captain, Master, and _several Offi cers, both belonging to the vessel and passengers to Quebec.) VESSELS SPOKEN WITIL—Tho Jam es , 17th inst., lat. 50, lon. 11; Ava, Portsmouth from London, u a t s h t t t o Quebec, o Quebec, 18th, lat. 51, lon. 10; Car . isbroo k Bel same day, lat. 51, lon. 8, by the William Thompson, arrived at Bristol. Augusta, Bristol to Bombay, sth ult., lat. 22 S. lon. 29 W. , by the Golconda, England, arrived at Swansea. Buenos Ayres, lat. 38 , lon. 67 W., he mine, Regenburg, f rom 67 by the Nord, ar r i ve d in the Downs. Elvira, Liverpool to China, sth ult., lat. 2, lon. 24 W. ; Woodman, Clyde to. Tobago, 21 s t u l t., Ist. 22 N., lon. 24 W. , by the handiana, Rogers, arrived in the Downs. Ulverstone,. Feb. 12, off the Cape of Good Hope, by the Humayeon, arrived in the Downs. Contest, of Jersey, Rio, for Cowes, April 1, lat. 32, lon. 42, by the Rowley, off Cork. Magpie, Liverpool, to the Cape of Good Hope, 3d ult., lat. 5 S., lon. 18 W. ; Colt, from Liverpool, 7th ult., lat. 2 N., lon. 21 W. ; Adven ture, from Jersey, 16th inst., lat. 47, lon. 16 ; Marianne schooner and Baltimore American ship, 20th, lat. 49, lon. 8, by the Ystroom, arrived off Falmouth. James Vir, of Garlie's-town, for Rio Janeiro, 11th ult., by :the Jacob Kersting, arrived off Dartmouth. Cornelia brig, of and from Glasgow, with loss of bowsprit, and had bore up for that port on the 17th inst., lat. 48, lon. 15, by the Palos, arrived off Falmouth. Victory barque, for New Orleans, 21st ult., lat. 23 N., lon. 34 W., by the Emily, arrived in the Downs. [ADVERTISEMENT.] POST•OEFICE ARRANGE. MENTS.—Worsdell's Vegetable Restorative Pills, pre pared only by John Kaye, Esq., of Dalton 11211, near Huddersfield, have now, arising solely from their in trinsic merits, attained the highest celebrity, and be come the most extensively established Family Medicine of the present day: but as many parties, anxious to ob tain this medicine, find great difficulty in doing so, owing to many country towns yet being without an Agent, from whom it can be procured ; to obviate this difficulty, the proprietor has now made arrangements by winch persons, residing in any part of the United !Cuagtions, may be supplied with a single box, post free, direct from the Wholesale Depot, in London, by forwarding fourteen penny postage stamps ; or, for the larger box , 2 s. 9 d. . stamps, addrossed—Kaye's Wholesale Depot, 44, Cele man-street, near the Bank, London. HOLLOWAY'S PILLS.—The virtue of this most ex traordinary medicine is so admirable and efficacious that it wonderfully preserves man in health and strength of body, and of all the powers and faculties of his mind. It is a sovereign remedy for all diseases, however bad, that admit of a cure. All persons su ff er i ng f rom genera l debility, nervous affections, liver or bilious complaints, sick head-aches, indigestion, want o f appet i te, as we l l as every complaint brought onby sedentory habits, for all such these Pills will be found to give almost immediate relief. Sold Oho Holloway's Ointment), at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand (where advice may be had gratis) ; and by almost all respectable yen. dors of medicine throughout the civilised world, in bo7,ea and pots at Is. lid., 2s. 9d., 4s. 6d., I Is., 225„ am) 335. each.