The Sun. — London, England, 1844-07-19 00:00:00

r..:_YURT OF COMMON COUNCIL. Yesterday a Court was held for the dispatch of public business. Mr. STACY requested to know from the Chairman of the Royal Exchange' Committee whether the encaustic paintings in that building had been performed upon the principle of public competition? He was induced to ask the question, in consequence of a statement which ap peared in the papers some days ago, an 3 to which much notice had been attracted. Mr. R. L. JONES said they certainly had been exe cuted upon the principle of public competition. A MEMBER—Amongst English artists ? Mr. R. L. JONES replied that he was not aware of any exclusion whatever with respect to the artiste of any country. Mr. R. TAYLOR—I can state that more than half of the persons engaged in these paintings were English men.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. R. L. JONES —There is no doubt whatever of that. Mr. ANDERTON—I am anxious to know, for the sake of the mercantile men, who are subjected to great incon venience by the delay, when it is likely that the building bill be opened ? • Mr. R. L. JONES—I hope, and believe, that it will be opened during the present mayoralty.—(Loud cheers.) CITY OF LONDON FREEDOMS. The Report of the Freedom Committee, to whom it was referred " to inquire into the power of the Corpora tion to enforce upon all persons, whether carrying on business, wholesale or retail, within the City, the obliga tion of taking up the freedom of the City, and the pro priety of enforcing the same upon all traders, and parti cularly upon wholesale dealers," was, upon the motion of Mr. Ashurst, the Chairman, ordered to be printed. The Committee to whom it was also referred to con sider as to the propriety of making a county-rate within the City, stated, that in pursuance of the references they had met from time to time and considered the matter, and in order to obtain the best information, they directed a strict search to be made into all the charters, records,, documents, and proceedings which would tend to throw light upon the subjeet ; and they ordered extracts to be made from them, to enable the Court to consider the whole in one comprehensive view. In furtherance of these directions the Town-clerk had prepared and laid before them extracts from the charters, the book and muniments of the Corporation, the statutes of the realm, and other documents, from the earliest times to the present moment. The collection and printing of these extracts had necessarily required much labour and oc cupied some time. The subject matter was not only of the greatest importance to the City, but also in volved weighty considerations, having on the one side deep-rooted prejudices, long practice, and continued neglect to overcome ; and, on the other, the necessity of extensive and effective correction of existing evils, and the securing the restoration of the ancient, just, and reasonable rights of the City. They had weighed and considered the conclusions which were printed, and the proceedings which were suggested, and though they were not at present prepared to give their final report on all the matters referred to, yet there were' some points on which they were prepared to report their recommendations, and to press the immediate adoption of them, as required by the existing evils and the ne cessity of a speedy correction. The pressure on the retail dealers, and the immunity of others who dwell within the City, and partook of all its advantages, had weighed much with the Committee; and they had unani mously resolved that the Acts of Common Council, im posing penalties on persons residering in the City, and not enrolled as citizens, using arts, trades, occupations, and mysteries within the City, should be recommended for immediate enforcement. As to the expediency of making a county rate, they had not at present obtained such information as would enable them to make a report upon that point. They had been the more inclined to recommend the adoption of proceedings for the penalties under the acts of Commyn Council, as they had the satis faction of knowing that that the Court of Aldermen had likewise had laid before them, by the Remembraneer, extracts and documents relative to the wholesale dealers, ropies of which had been communicated to them by the Court of Aldermen, and from which they found that the same view they had taken of the liability of the whole sule dealers, who were not freemen to legal proceedings for penalties under the laws and customs of the Corpo ranon, was adopted by the Remembrancer. The report was appointed for discussion at the next Court. _ _ A long discusion took place, upon the motion of Mr. BOWER that it be referred to the Committee on the traders freedom to consider the expediency of reduciog the fine on admission to the freedom of the City to the ancient fine of 21. 6s. Bd., and the proposition was rejected by a large majority. PORTRAIT OH LORD DENMAN. The LORD MAYOR said he had received a letter from highly-gifted and most estimable lady, accompanied by a full length portrait of Lord Denman, Chief Justice of the Queen's Bench, who had formerly filled the office of 'Common Sergeant of their City. The rank, talent, and virtues of the noble individual who was the subject of the portrait, the faithfulness of its resemblance, and the excellence of its execution, would, he was sure, render it a highly acceptable present to the Court.—(Cheers.) The following, is a copy of the letter. " To the Right Hon. the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of the City of London. "MY LORD AND GENTLEMEN—I solicit your accept ance of a full-length portrait of the Right Hon. Lord Denman, Chief Justice of England, which I have had the honour to paint expressly for the Corporation of the City of London. " I hope I have so far proSted by the opportunities his Lordship kindly afforded me, as to obtain a likeness suf ficiently faithful to be valued by you, and to convey to nosterity an adequate resemblance of this distinguished IL dividnal, of whom it will be recorded in history that, wrism excluded from political considerations from the lv,veß.- earned honours of his profession, he was elevated by tite ancient privilege of the Corporation of London, to judicial station and forensic rank ; and after having, under their auspices, for nearly ten years, maintained a high reputation as an upright judge and a powerful advocate, he was raised by his Sovereign to the office of Attorney-General, and, finally, to the eminent position h 9 has-ttbw the honour to fill. Allied as I have been for many years to members of the Common Council by filial and conjugal ties, it affords i:qe much satisfaction to place under the guardian ship of th,at body the last of this magnitude which it is nay intention to undertake. " I avail m; self of this occasion to express my grate fat sense of - o,e respectful attention I have personally Always rece i v ed from the corporation; and I have the honour to be, my Lord and Gentlemen, your obedient servant, " MARY M. PEARSON. " Clapham Common, July 18, 1844." The reading of the letter was received with cheers. Mr. R. L. JONES said he was one of the few members rh e. a remaining in the Court who twenty-tWo years ago had supported Mr. Denman's election as Common Sergeiti 't. It was a period of great political excitement. when par, 4 l , feeling prevailed to shut him out from that rank and / 3 0stioa in his profession which he was by his ta'ents so .ve. l l qualified to occupy.—(Loud cheers.) His subsequent honourable and useful career had justi fied the in eyes of the world the discriminating selection entitle by the Comma? Council, :who, in conferring upon hi al the rank of Comnwn-Sergeant, smoothed the rug ged access to fame and fuytune, and enabled him to sur mount the difficulties which adverse circumstances had place l i n his way.—(Clicors.) His Lordship always ex pressed hsrnself pleased to revieNy from his present ex • tilted ore.ol:nence the events of forme; da ys, _ and he (Mr. Jones) eitertained no doubt that the Corporation and his Lordship mould feel equal satisfaction in transmitting to future ages, within the walls of the Council-chamber, the memento of his Lordship, which that splendid por srsit atforded.—(Loud cheering.) In conformity with ti.' precedent established forty years since, when the It o n. Mrs. Darner :presented the bust of L ord Nelson, then in tliie Court, be should move that the cordial thanks of the Court be given to Mrs. Charles Pearson for this very en ,.nable present, and that it be referred to the City Land- C u mmittee to provide a suitable place fur it iw the Council-room. — (Cheers.) Sir P. LA. Win: said that, participating as he did with the other men , bens of the Court in the great respect they Lore for Lord J7,nnan, as well as for the lady by whom , the portrait had beon painted, he should content himself • with seconding , the toction. Mr. R. TA.7I OR renankcd, that being in the same situation as Mr. Jones., he concurred with that gentle mail in expressing the satisfaction they must feel in having been men ibers of the Court when the Corpora tion exercised one of their highest and noblest privi hi the v.eiection of this distinguished individual to the judicial office of Common Sergeant, by which he at the same time attained professional rank as an advocate. —(CheerF.) .41.8 a con•-titutional advocate, and as a con sti!ut:onal jue'gr, Lord Penman had done justice to the early ex pectat ions of his friends, and had maintained that ehzsacicr for (-;• insistency which had recommended him to uuiversil confide nee and regard. The Corporation of Lon don had a just right to plume themselves upon the manner in which they laid their ancestry had used their consti tutional right of appointing to high office. The records DI the Corporation proved that the House of Commons had been provide d with three Speakers, the Woolsack with ten or twelve Chancellors, and the Courts of West- 'philter with as ivany Chief Justices and Chief Barons, besides a whole hi,st of puisne Judges. Lord Coke, L..rd King - , Sir Thomas More, Chief Justice Hale, were all recruited from the ranks of the City Law Officers, and, it was not a little remarkable, that that eminent l a wyer and aistinguished scholar Mr. Baron Bolland, who had been competitor with Lord Penman for the Common Ser.genut'; go Kn, was, like himself, afterwards elevated to the ja dicial bench: Alderman FAR EBROTIIER observed that the ability and integrity of thus distinguished Nobleman stood too high in public estimation t , ) need any eulogy from him, Nit he could not help alluding to the resolute and per se, •ering manner in which his Lordship had, upon all 0 „, ions, opposed any invasion of the rights and privi leges , the citizens of London.—(Great cheering.) He said he cou ld not refrain from doing justice to the goo d taste mu. feeling of the lady who had grac e f u lly • selected a faithful, zealous, and able officer of the Cor poration, n , lw elevated to the summit of his profession, portrait presented to that body.— as the subje 1F of a (Cheers.) Ile hut ,seen with adnitration the magnificent production of pencil, which her fidelity in resem blance, and for haste and ability in execution, need not fear competition with nny of the splendid portrdits with which the Council Chain her was adorned.—(Cheers.) Mr. WIRE, Mr. JUPP, and other members, supported the motion, which was carried unanimously, and amidst loud acclamations. Mr. R. L. joxr.s having moved 'Oat the Lord ,Mayor he requested to convey the foregoing resolution to 31..1% ,ated that he most cheerfully se m, and availed himself of the krking upon the very gratifying cir ,*mtrait had been painted by a lady, }nn elegant accomplishment as the le independence, and who, by her Pet.rsOn, r. ' . T t- Pi Dl lll B .. # i_i Virty-.Vrengia.r ti „,te, ttn i.r.:AArtkithat tli ms , !r i p e k r:taltivatcyl Z c - 01' Orggt,*-', iitmotuatA ' ... , , c,. , .-.:- - N \ fti eminent position in the arts, had afforded to females of . talent and education a bright example of success a department of industry consonant with the delicacy of the sex and the refinement of their taste.—(Cheers.) In the early days of the Royal Academy, and under the presidency of Sir Joshua Reynolds, female artists par ticipated with their brethren in the honours of the pro fession. Angelica Kauffman, Miss Moser, and, he be lieved, the Hon. Mrs. Darner, who had been referred to that day, were Royal Academicans ; and it was gene rally understood that had Sir Thomas Lawrence lived, the Salique law, by which the lords of creation bore ex clusive sway in the domain of British art, would have been restored.—(Loud cheers.) The walls of the Royal Academy had annually exhibited the pro ductions of Mrs. Carpenter, frs. Charles Pearson, Mrs. Robertson and other able female artists, besides the honorary contributions of ladies of rank. It would be but the payment of a grateful homage to public opinion which had already, by its patronage, given to those ladies an elevated position in the fine arts of the Royal Aca demy, and the literary institutions of the country were to confer honours upon ladies eminent in arts, sciences, and literature, who had earned distinction in the arena of public competition.—(Loud cheering.) Deputy STEVBNS cordially agreed in the observations of the preceding:speakers, and particularly in the remarks of the last gentleman who had spokei. He was delighted to witness the great improvements which had taken place during the last few years in female education. He hoped that still further encouragement would be given for the cultivation of literature and the arts. Mrs. Pear son, who had been long known as the estimable wife of their respected City Solicitor, afforded the best proof, by her example, that the highest attainments in the arts was perfectly compatible with the display of the domestic virtues, which were the charm and ornament of the sex. The motion was carried unanimously.—Adjourned. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. FROM THE EVENING PAPERS OP YESTERDAY. GLOBE.—Sir James Graham's inexplicable course with respect to the convict Dalmas has occasioned much surprise in the public mind, and has been made the sub ject of well-merited and strongly-marked censures. A more cold-blooded, premeditated murder than that of which Dalmas was convicted, on evidence that afforded no possibility of doubt as to his guilt, has not been often perpetrated. While the penalty of death for deliberate murder remains unrepealed on the statute-book, no imaginable reason can be assigned for exempting Dolmas from the punishment to which he was sentenced. The object of the law, and the duty of those intrusted with its execution, are alike—to prevent murder; to render life secure from the machinations of the mali cious, and from the violence of the cruel—to repress the commission of an enormous crime, which none but.the most desperate of men will commit. Admit that putting the convicted offender to death has sufficient effi cacy, by way of example, to prevent the com mission of such offences—and this is the only rational ground on which capital punishment is defen sible—there can be no reason why Dalmas was reprieved; except that which was implied by the medical examina tion to which he was subjected after sentence, viz., that he was of unsound mind, and therefore not responsible to the law for the death of the poor woman who was his vic tim. No suggestion of insanity was made by his counsel on his trial—a line of defence, in the case of persons ac cused of flagrant offences,which has of late become common from the success that has attended its adoption in several recent instances. Such a plea would, doubtless, have been set up on his trial, had there been the slightest evidence to sustain it. The defence was made to rest on a simple denial of guilt; a legal objection to the reception of the dying woman's declaration, which was admit ted to be valid by the Judges; and an attempt to shake the testimony of the witnesses who identified the pri soner as the man they saw with the woman, or near the spot, about the time the murder was perpetrated. Notwithstanding this, if any statements, tending to raise a doubt of the convict's sanity were forwarded to the Home-office, we think Sir James Graham was bound to direct a medical examination, and to stay exe cution of the sentence to afford time for the medical practitioners to obtain the necessary information. Per sons acquainted with the history of the criminal, as well as those whose business it was to watch him care fully while in their custody, should be, and doubtless were, examined. The rnedical examination of the wretched man ; of the chaplain of the prison ; and of the gaolers to whose custody and watchful care he was committed during the considerable interval which elapsed between his being committed for trial, and his subsequent remand to their custody after sen tence of death was passed upon him ; left no reason to infer that Dalmas was of unsound mind, or in any re spect incapable of exercising a proper control over his own conduct. The fact of the sentence being com muted into transportation for life is, in itself, sufficient to show that the Home Secretary was satis fied as to the sanity of the murderer. For what Minister of Justice, who was not himself the subject of mental aberration, would direct'a lunatic to be transported ? Bedlam, and not Van Diemen's Land, is the appropriate place of restraint, and affords the only suitable discipline, for lunatics. If Dalmas were -insane, and if his insanity were indicated by a propensity to murder, what a fearful responsibility has Sir James Graham assumed ! What, if on his voyage to the penal settlement to which the Home Secretary has consigned him, Dalmas murder one of the un happy beings who are expatriated by the sentence of the law, but whose lives are as precious in the law's eye as that of any other person? What, if in the colony he, with the crafty vigilance for which lunatics are distinguished, watch his opportunity, and slack his thirst for blood by cutting the throat or knocking out the brains of a convict, or of one of the overseers ? Who would be responsible but the Home Secretary ? —who, with an inconsistency partaking of insanity, consigned a murderous lunatic to a penal settlement, instead of confining him in a lunatic asylum ! But it is suggested, that the evidence, upon under going revision, was not deemed satisfactory. Insanity and innocency, combined, are incompatible as pleas ; whether in answer to an indictment, or as the ground of an application to the Crown for a commutation of punishment. The one necessarily destroys the other. If the evidence be deemed insufficient to sustain a conviction—if discrepancies appear in material parts of the testimony sufficiently grave to engender doubts as to the actual guilt of the accused, the duty of the Home Secretary is clear. A pardon should have issued under the Great Seal, by which not only the life of the convicted party would be saved from the death to which he had been improperly doomed, but' all the civil consequences of a conviction be averted. To transport an innocent man for life—e e. a man who, it is admitted, ought never to have been convicted—to consign such a one to all the horrible deprivations and inflictions comprehended in dragging out existence in a penal set tlement—is manifestly as much opposed to justice as send ing a lunatic to a penal settlement is inconsistent with reason, and dangerous to the safety of those, however degraded by crime, with whom he may be associated. We do not, by any means, adopt the hypothesis of the statement, that f)almas' conviction was not justified by evidence. On the contrary, we consider that the proof was irrefragable. But assuming that well-sus tained doubt was raised in the breast of Sir James Graham as to its sufficiency, we contend that to cut the knot, which he was unable to untie, by transport ing the convict fur life, was neither just to the indi vidual, respectful to the laws, nor safe to the public. The case of Dalmas naturally induces a comparison of it with the circumstances attendant on the case of Crouch, recently executed at Newgate for the murder of his wife, and the different treatment he received from Sir James Graham with that which Dalmas has received at his hands. The cases of Crouch and Dahlias occurred within a month of each other. The execution of Crouch was by no means in accordance with public opinion. He was generally regarded as a man " subject to fits of insanity," caused by the accident which had hap pened to him, and by which his brain was injured. No sue)? defence was offered, or even suggested, in the case of Dalmas; whose exemption from the extreme penalty of the law is regarded as extraordinary, if not un ;ustifiable. The public opinion upon a comparison of both cases is, that as Dalmas was saved from the death to which he was consigned by the law, Crouch, who suffered its penalty under circumstances which rendered his sanity more than doubtful, was unjustly executed. STANDARD.—Courtesy commands that we reply, though we shall discharge the duty in few words, to the remarks with which the Courrier Francais has honoured this journal. It will probably be recollected that we engaged in controversy with our Paris Contemporary with the simple design of proving that England can have no motive for exciting hostility ag ainst France, either in Morocco or in any other part o f the north of Africa; and that the arguments by which we endeavoured t.o establish this proof—first, the direct and immedi ate interest which England, as a commercial nation, has In the preservation of pence—we will add, the pro motion of prosperity and happiness everywhere, more especially in our own neighbourhood ; secondly, the full confidence to that effect—the conviction, whether cell or ill-founded. universally prevailing in this country— dud ultimately we can in any event suffer noshing from the estahlishment of our neighbours upon the African coast. These considerations seemed to us sufs ecient, in the absence of all evidence or pretence of evidence countervailing them, to demonstrate that Eng land has had no share in exciting the hostility of the Moors against France. We rested chiefly upon conside rations of interest, and we are not ashamed to have done so, not only because- practically among reasonable men and reasonably governed nations, interest chiefly pre vails, but also because there is really nothing to be ashamed of in the motive. We have learned 'from all our best philosophers and soundest divines— Locke and Butler emot ' s others—that an enlightened self-interest is the great bond of society, and that the individual that succeeds best in bringing duty and pro fit into harmony, gOes farthest in fulfilling the designs of the Author of all Good. In showing that peace, uni versal peace, is the interest of Eng land,we show that Eng :and has made an important stepin this honourable direc tion, and we put forward the fact (which the Courtier Francais acknowledges as indisputable) as a just occa sion of pride, and a strong claim to the confidence of the world. We give, as it were, hostages to mankind that no insane ambition of conquest on our part—no irra tional pursuit of glory—no vile feeling of envy or revenge will prompt us to disturb their peace, and cause their blood to be squandered. In proving what the Courrier Francais now admits, but what it before directly denied, that the peace of Africa is for the interest of England, we proved all we intended to prove, and it was with reference to this point that we introduced the apologue of " the wolf and the lamb," not thinking to personify the French people by the savage animal, but the Courrier F,-ancais itself, which plainly employed the wolf's argurneDe—that as England must have wi s h e d f or a war between liorncco and France, England kindled that war. We should be sorry, indeed, to suppose that France, or any considerable portion of the French people, is so absurdly ignorant of the interest, the policy, and the feeling of this country, as to suppose that we ought THE SUN, LONDON. FRIDAY EVENING. JULY 10, 1944 SOUTH AMERICAN DEBTS. A correspondent at Cleveland, in Yorkshire, begs the insertion of ,his letter, which we readily accord, merely premising that as yet nothing satisfactory has transpired in connection with the Mexican or Co lumbian debts, but that we trust the spirit of inquiry and indignation evinced by numerous other parties besides our correspondent will not be without a sa lutary effect. We shall revert to this subject again, and in the meantime Subjoin the communication : " I have been an old subscriber to your very ta lented and influential journal. I will thank you to inform me and others, through the medium of your widely-extended circulation, if there be any appear ance of the Mexican agents paying the half-years' dividend, due the Ist of April last, as I saw in your journal ten days or a fortnight ago that above 160,000 dollars had arrived for that purpose, and IN ith the previous arrivals in hand, it was judged sufficient to pay the April dividend. And, likewise, can you enlighten me and numberless others of the unfortu nate Columbian bondholders when the New Grenada Government intend to commence the payment of the interest on their portion of the Columbian debt, which was agreed upon to be 50 per cent.; the only payment that has hitherto been paid by that Government was the paltry sum of ss. 6d. per 1001. bond. Sometime last year, I am told, and I believe it is coirect, that M. Maquirree, the Minister for New Granada, in this country has funds in his hands to the amount of 60,0001. or 70,000/., and hitherto he cannot be pre vailed upon to pay this money to the legitimate owners of it, viz., the unfortunate bondholders. It is really " too bad" that this individual should hold this money in his hands so long —he cannot look very comfortable at the levee days amongst the other dip lomatists I should suppose. Please give insertion to this letter with your energetic comments upon it, and upon the conduct of these non-paying States, and it may tend to elicit information from other correspondents.—l remain, Sir, your very obedient servant, AN UNFORTUNATE HOLDER OF MEXICAN AND COLOMBIAN BOND*" ALFRED LIFE ASSURANCE. On Wednesday, the General Meeting was held-at their offices, No. 7, Lothbury. The chair was taken by Sir David Scott, Bart. From the report it ap peared that the Company had been established five years, and over and above the paid-up' capital, had accumulated the sum of 48,5371. 14s. ld. Since the formation of the Association, 513 policies had been issued, assuring the sum of 442,4281. The number of claims from death had been six, upon which 3,7501. had been paid. _The profit realised from lapsed poli cies amounted to 3,5951. 18s. 10(1., consequently the difference between these two sums, viz. 1541. Is. 2d., was the only charge upon the assurance fund for de cease of lives assured. Such a result was very re markable. as upon the most moderate calculation, six teen or eighteen should have occurred, upon which from 14,0001. to 16,0001. should have been paid. It appeared that the annuity branch of the Company's business had been equally satisfactory ; 31,8271.55. 4d. having been sunk with them for the purchase of annuities. Of the annuitants five had died, relieving the office of annuities amounting to 5441. 6s. 3d. The report was considered highly satisfactory, and unanimously adopted ; and thanks having been voted to the Chairman and Directors, the meeting separated. IMP.. 4 !lnaitia PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, July 18. Their Lordships met at Five o'clock. Messengers from the House of Commons brought up the Southampton Improvement Bill, the Glasgow Rail way Extension Bill, and another private Bill. SCHOOLMASTERS OF SCOTLAND. Lord MINTO, in presenting a petition from the paro chial schoolmasters of Scotland, complained that the dis cussion which took place when he formerly put some question upon the subject to her Majesty's Government had been misreported in the provincial newspapers. It had not been said in that House that her Majesty's Ministers had washed their hands of the subject. That was the very contrary of what occurred ; for his Noble Friend opposite had said that the Government were willing to give the subject a favourable consideration, but were unable to take it up at present. The petition which he now presented originated in a mistake of his Noble Friend's answer, in consequence of the imperfect manner in which it had been reported. The Duke of WELLINGTON said that his Noble Friend had rightly .understOod the answer of the Government. DETACHED PARTS OF COUNTIES BILL. Lord -HATHERTON moved the second reading of this Bill, which, he said, was intended to remedy the inconveniences to which come counties were subjected by having parts of other counties embodied in them and completely detached. After a few words from the Marquis of SALISBURY and the Duke of RICHMOND, the Bill was read a second dine, and ordered to be committed on Monday. AGRICULTURE. The Duke of RICHMOND presented 120 petitions in favour of agricultural protection, some of which in c l a d e d a prayer against the Anti-Corn-law League. THE RACE-COURSE GAMING BILL. Lord CAMPBELL presented the petition of which he had given notice, from Charles Henry Russell, to be heard at the bar, by himself or counsel, against the Actions for Gaming Discontinuance Bill. He thought the petitioner was entitled to be so heard—an indulgence for which there were many precedents : amongst others, a case in which his Noble Friend Lord Brougham held a brief shortly after he was called to the bar. The Noble Lord on the cross bench (the Duke of Richmond) had said that there was some doubt whether Russell had a right to be heard, as it was supposed that he was only the nominal plaintiff. But the fact was, that Russell would be liable to the Costs of the whole proceeding, if he should lose his actions, and he was therefore im mediately interested. He (Lord Campbell) therefore hoped the House would grant the application. After a few words from the Duke of RICHMOND, the petition was laid on the table. Lord CAMPBELL then moved that the petitioner be heard at the bar, by himself or counsel, on the reading of the order of the day that the Bill be committed. SALMON FISHERIES BILL (SCOTLAND). The Earl of RADNOR in presenting a petition against this Bill, said he understood it could not proceed further without her Majesty's con sent being previously given, as was the case with another Bill recently abandoned on that ground. But he hoped, whether that objection applied to this Bill or not, their Lordships would reject the Bill.—(Hear.) The Duke of RICHMOND thought that the object of the Bill was a very fair one ; but he would not object, if opposition were persevered in, to postpone the Bill till another session. The Earl of RADNOR complained that no notice had been given in the orders of the second reading. If any such notice were printed in the orders, he was very much mistaken, and he had paid great attention to the progress of the motion, as he looked with some suspicion on the appearance of a new Salmon Bill for Scotland or Ireland every year —(A laugh.) The Duke of RICHMOND ultimately agreed to put off the Committee en this Bill (which stood on the paper for to-night) till Monday fortnight, in order that he might make himself master of the subject in the mean time ; for ho must confess that he knew nothing about it when he moved the second reading. • THE ALIENS BILL. Lord BROUGHAM begged to draw the attention of their Lordships to the subject of a Bill which had come up from the other House, and which steed for the second reading. As the law now stood, aliens were subject to great disadvantages in this eountry. They could not hold office, nor inherit free hold property, nor possess leasehold property ; neither could they own a share in any ship. The law would ope rate with great severity in cases of persons born of marriages in a hich one or other was a foreigner. He knew a most eminent l a dy w h o held an English and Scbtch p erage in her own right ; but she had married a Preach nobleman ; and if she !lad a son born in France, that son could not inherit her titles or her estates in the kingdom. The law of Ent,r land was the most illiberal of any nation in the world. In France the nation of any country was allowed to buy or inherit land or any kind of property, an-1 to hold offie, just as if he were a native of France. In respect to Ireland, however, the legislation of that country had been as liberal to foreigners as that of France, for aliens could purchase property, hold office, or even sit in Parliament, as freely as a native, until the 36th of George the Third. The object of introducing into the Act of settlement the disqualification of foreigners from holding office, was to prevent the foreign favourites of the King from being preferred to Englishmen.—(Hear, and a laugh.) But the Spitalfields weavers—or such as were foreigners— were disqualified even from holding the office of parish constables in their own parish. Now the cost of an Act of naturalisation could nut be less than 1001. But were there not many foreign artisans whose skill would be of great value to this country, if they were not dis qualified in such a way, and could not get over the disqualification, except at such an enormous; and, to them, insuperable expense ? The report of the Committee of the House of Commons was a most just one, but in some respects he did not altogether con cur in its recommendation. In the Bill which he was now about to call their Lordships' attention to more par ticularly—the Bill to which he alluded in setting out— he proposed to add a clause, that the wives of British subjects should be naturalised by the fact of their marri age; and that in all Acts of naturalisation the clause prohibiting a naturalised person to sit in Parliament, or hold office under the Crown, should be omitted. It was a strange anomaly that the naturalised foreigner could not hold the humblest office under the Crown for fear he should betray the country to foreigners, whereas if he were chosen as the husband of the Sovereign, the Act of Settlement would be so far suspended, and he would be endowed with all British privileges. Lord. MONTEAGLE presented a petition from the Chamber of Commerce, Dublin, in favour of the Dublin and Cashel Railway. The Marquis of WINCHESTER presented numerous petitions in favour of agricultural protection. ART-UNIONS. Lord MONTEAGLE moved the second reading of the Arts-Unions Legalisation Bill. He stated that the ob jeet of the Bill was to exempt the members of those in stitutions from the penalties to which they were sup posed to be liabl e un d er t h e L otter i e s Suppressio n A ct . 'These institution s were founded upon the report of a Committee of' foists and friends of art, and were in imita tion of the one established in Prussia, under the auspices of the King and the direction of Baron von Humboldt. Since the art-union of London was established, it had distributed more money for the encouragement of art than the liberality of Government had contributed in the same time. The Duke of CAMBRIDGE-10,0001. more. —(Hear.) Lord MONTEAGLE—Members of both Houses of Parliament, and of the present as well as of the former Government, and those distinguished persons, with 13,612 other subscribers, were liable to penalties, as en gaged in illegal lotteries. Theft { Lordships had lately sanctioned the principle of a Bill to giVe to the persons who incurred penalties in gaming on horse-racing the same protection which he asked them to give to those most laudable institutions. The enactments of his Bill were two—first, an indemnity for all the proceedings that bad taken place; and secondly, that any art-union which should in future obtain a royal charter on the ap proval of its rules and regulations by the Board of Trade, should be a legal body, arid be emp owere d t o dis tribute works ac .ording to the provisions of such charter of the Crown, or permission by the Board of Trade. The petitions in favour of the Bill had come from every important town in the United Kingdom; and he hoped their Lordships would now allow the second reading, not binding them or any Noble Lord to the precise terms of any part of the measure. The Bill was then read a second time. SUDBURY DISFRANCHISEMENT. The LORD CHANCELLOR gave notice .that, on Monday next, he would move the second reading of the Sudbury Disfranchisement Bill. He would also move that counsel be heard against the Bill, as they hid been heard in the other House. INSOLVENT DEBTORS' BILLS. The LORD CHANCELLOR brought up the repon of the Select Committee on these Bills. Lord BROUGHAM suggested that their Lordships should at once refer the report of the Select Committee to a Committee of the whole House, as it was desirable to lose no time in passing so important a measure at this period of the session. Lord CAMPBELL thought that, in the absence of Lord Cottenham, who had had no notice of the Noble and Learned Lord's proposition, the Bill ought not to proceed another stage. After a very desultory conversation (amidst much in terruption), in which Lord Brougham, Lord Campbell, and Lord Mountcashel took part, Lord BROUGHAM moved that the report be now referred to a Committee of the whole House. His Noble and Learned Friend who was absent would have ample opportunity of expressing his views of the report at a future stage. Lord CAMPBELL continued to oppose this proceed ing, on the ground of its irregularity and the absence of notice. After some further conversation, Lord BROUGHAM postponed his motion until to morrow, with the hope and distinct understanding, that no person would take advantage of the late period of the session to induce persons elsewhere to defeat the Bill. • EDUCATION IN IRELAND. The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL, in bringing forward the motion of which he had given notice, said that he had to accuse the Commissioners of Education in Ire land of having unlawfully applied the school funds, and usurped the school land, and of other violations of their trusts, and excess of their lawful powers. In one case, in which he was a trustee with another Peer, with a Miss Stannix, he was refused by the Commissioners all information as to what had been done with the property. He communicated with the lady, and she informed him that she was induced to make over the property to the Minister without consulting him as a trustee, through the influence of her solicitor. The Noble Lord was in terrupted whilst reading the lady's letter by the an nouncement of A message from the Commons. The messengers brought to the bar several Bills which they had passed. The Earl ofIIIOUNCASHEL said it was now sug gested to him, that he ought to take the case into Chan cery ; but that would be useless, as the Lord Chan cellor of Ireland was one of the Commissioners. The LORD CHANCELLOR—You could take it into the Rolls Court. The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL said the Master of the Rolls was also a Commissioner.—(Laughter.) The LORD CHANCELLOR—Oh, pray, don't bring it before me. The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL was proceeding with the statement of his case against the Commissioners v, hen he was again interrupted by Lord WHARNCLIFFE, who said that the House could do nothing in the matter, which was one for a court of law only to determine, and he asked the Nobl e Lord whether it was worth his while to occupy the time of the House when his speech could lead to no result ? The Earl of MOUNTCASHEL said, if their Lordships would hear him, he would show that the House had power to interfere. He then proceeded to ar gue th at the CoMmissioners had made inaccurate reports to the House as to the instalments which they had received out of this property. That was a matter into which the House ought to inquire. They (the Commissioners) had 1,200/. to account for, and to the schoolmaster of the school, in Clonmel, to which the property belonged, they had only paid 1001.. He concluded by moving for a Select Committee to inquire into the charges which he had made. Lord WHARNCLIFFA recommended his Noble Friend to lay a statement of his case before the Lord Lieutenant, and, no doubt, he would receive some kind of answer. The Commissioners were gentleman of the highest responsibility, and, no doubt, they would explain their conduct. The Duke of RICHMOND thought that the House ought not to expresss an opinion on a case which ought to go before the Court of Chancery. He was surprised to hear that the trustees would not bring their case before his distinguished friend the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, because that Noble and Learned Lord was one of the Commissioners of Education. • After a few words from Lord GLZNOALL, and from Lord WITARNCLIFFE in explanation, The Duke of WELLINGTON said that the case brought forward was subject for inquiry in the Court of Chancery. He had not been able to understand what the case of the Noble Lord was.—(A laugh.) There was a Board of Education, and there were Commissioners of Education, and it was impossible to guess against whop the accusation was made.—(Hear, hear.) There was an Executive Government and a Court of Chancery, who would do any aggrieved persons justice. HORSE RACING BILL. On the motion of the Duke of RICHMOND, counsel for the petitioners against this Bill will be heard to morrow (this day) at four o'clock. The Customs Duties (Isle of Man) Bill was read a third time, and passed. The House then adjourned at Half-past Seven o'clock , HOUSE OF COMMONS, July 18. POOR-LAWS. (Continued from our Afternoon Edition of yesterday.) Sir JAMES GRAHAM had two objections to the amendment. It would be quite inconsistent with the provision agreed to by the House yesterday, and in the second place he believed the control of the Commis sioners was as much required in parishes managed under a local Act as in any others. Mr. SPOONER, supported the amendment of his Hon. Colleague (Mr.,Munts). The Right Hon. Baronet objected that it would undo what had been done yester day. That was exactly what he wished to effect. He hoped the Committee would pause before it interfered with a system that had worked so well for so long a period. The guardians would be the protectors of the poor, and would be faithful to their trust to the rate payers, but they would not be the tools of the Poor-law Commissioners. The local Act had worked well, and had given general satisfaction in Birmingham ; but the guardians would not be interfered with. He objected to the principle of the poor-law, and thought it proper, while they Were on the details, to attempt to ameliorate it. He should support the proposition of his Hon. Friend. Mr. WAKLEY said they were all indebted to the Hon. Gentleman for his speech, but somebody had evi dently made a mistake,—(!fear, hear.) The Hon. \rem ber spoke strongly in favour of the Birmingham local Act, because under it the guardians were elected tri ennially—(Hear, hear"—the vote was by ballot—(Hear, hear)—and the suffrage was universal.—(Hear, hear.) Was this the Birmingham Tory?—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) If it was, he heartily hoped they would have more like him in time.(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Mem ber was returned as a good Tory, but he would find there was a reforming party even on those benches. With respect to the amendment itself, it was totally in applicable to the law its it now existed, and he should vote against it. Colonel SIBTHORP congratulated Birmingham On having returned to its senses, and stated that he should support the amendment. llr. MUNTZ begged to observe that his amendment did not do away with all interference with the guardians —it only rendered it necessary that application should be made by a majority of the ratepayers before such in terference could take place. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Committee divided, when there appeared— For Mr. Muntz's amendment 23 Against it 7B Majority against the amendment —ss Colonel WOOD moved the following addition to the claese:—" Provided always, that the said Commissioners shall, by order under their hands and seal, upon applica tion in writing of two-thirds of the guardians elected for any parish in which the relief of the poor is now admi nistered by a board of guardians, or a board of trustees, under a local Act, and which is united with any other parish or parishes for the administration of the relief of the poor, if such parish, according to the enumeration of the population published by authority of Parliament, contain more than twenty thousand persons, to declare such parish to be separated from such union; and the re lief of the poor shall thereafter be administered in such parish by a board of guardians, elected according to the provisions of the Poor-law Amendment Act, or by a board of guardians or trustees, elected under a local Act, as the said Commissioners may direct." He had presented a petition from Kensington on the subject, and be thought parishes with such a population ought to have the power of separating from a union without coming to Parliament for a local Act. He hoped the Government would consent to the amendment, which ; would have a tendency to reconcile the ratepayers and the poor to the operation of the law. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said this question ought to be decided upon principle, and he had last year admitted that many of the unions embraced too large an area, and he had proposed that committees of guardians should be formed to receive applications for relief in the distant districts. lie saw a notice given by the Hon. Member for Westmoreland to give power to the Commissioners, even without the consent of guardians, to alter the boundaries of unions. He thought it would be better that the decision of the Committee should be first tahert on the proposition of the Hon. Member for WeAttaoreland; if that proposition should be 4doiated thisrovise would ' not to wish er do not wish to our next-door neighbours all the prosperity and happiness they can desire for themselves. In speaking of the settlement of Algiers, our allusion to whi c h - is -seized upon as a ground of offence, we gave expression to a conviction which I is, we believe, universal in this country, and in most other countries of Europe, and which is certainly held by a very great number of intelligent men in France itself—the conviction that the settlement cannot be permanently maintained upon any very extensive scale, if at all. All the circumstances of the case considered, this conviction is not in the least shaken by any votes which the Chamber of Deputies may - be compelled by " the pressure from without" to pass, or the Government may, by force of the same pressure, be compelled to pro pose. The history of the world, ancient and modern, presents no example of a territory as extensive—half as extensive—one-tenth as extensive as Algeria, per manently retained under such circumstances as those under which France has acquired and now holds that country. England, with her vast naval superiority, and the resources for military service which her one hundred millions of Indian population could sup ply, would deem it madness to attempt such an acquisition of territory. But the prevailing opinion of England in the matter is most plainly written in our policy. An equality, if not predominance, in the Mediterranean is of course as desirable to• us as it can be to France ; but how have we sought to secure this object ? By large territorial conquests ; expensive in their acquisition ; more expensive, and always hazardous in their preservation ? No ; though in 1800 we might have laid our grasp upon Sicily and a great part of Egypt—though in 1816 we might have effected a lodgment in Algeria—though in 1840 we had the whole of Syria, to say nothing of the facility with which we might at almost any moment during the war possess ourselves of the Balearic Islands, or any of them ; notwithstanding all these opportuni ties, England- contents herself with half-aklozen islands of the smallest size and the rock of Gibraltar, and these she finds amply sufficient for the protection of her com merce. Be our opinion respecting the permanence of the large French settlement in Algiers, however, correct or incorrect, it is surely unjust to ascribe that opinion to envy or ill-will. THE BIRMINGHAM ELECTION. (From the Cheltenham Examiner.) This catastrophe has been consummated, and the country has this week witnessed the humiliating spec tacle of a great constituency sacrificing certain success to the gratification of internal fends and dissensions. Thus has Birmingham been lost to the Liberal interest-- the Tory candidate has been returned, and Mr. Joseph Sturge entitled himself to the lasting gratitude of the party for his services on the occasion. The unhappy split which manifested itself immediately on Mr. Schole field's death, remained unclosed to the last • and the result was, that the Liberal party, weakened, dispirited, and frittered away in unworthy rivalry, was unable to cope with the united and sanguine party opposed to it. The Conservatives are not a little vain-glorious at the fact that they have polled more than the combined forces of their opponents. But, re garded as a mere party victory, they have little to con gratulate themselves on ; Mr. Spooner purchased the votes of many of the middle- men by his distinct decla rations against the present Ministry ; he announced him. self as a No:Peelite ! and as one who, on the Factory and Sugar Bills, would have voted against Ministers, and scorned to do as many of his party did—rescind his vote to keep them in office. So far, then, the Ministry gains but little in Mr. Spooner's advent to Parliament. As to the causes of defeat to the Liberals, they are simply these : un it e d, th ey were un doubtedly able to carry their man ; their unfortunate dissensions destroyed that certainty, by cramping the energies, and destroying the unitedness of the party, and preventing many, from the improbability of victory, from going to the poll at all. As we before stated, the only means of healing the breach was for the weakest party to give way ; .the result has showp which that party was. The smallness of Mr. Sturge's mino rity proves the hollowness of his pretensions to repre sent the borough ; he must have known, long before he went to the poll, that he could not command 500 votes ; in fact, that the only end of his opposition must be not his own success, but the defeat of his brother Libe ral, and the letting in of a Tory. Mr. Scholefield, on the contrary, had a prospect of success. No one questions that had he stood alone, he would have com manded a majority ; with The undivided support of the Liberal interest, his success was certain. But fate, and the folly of party, decreed otherwise. Birming ham was destined to have the enviable notoriety of giving the first victory to disunion, and its name will hence be a word of warning, and caution, and disgrace to the constituencies of the empire. The public voice will not fail to visit this disgrace upon the right quarter—the man who, with 300 votes (not a tithe of the polling constituency), set up his own ambition and his own pretensions against the all but unanimous voice of his party. It would scarcely be credited, but for the living example that so much professing philanthropy should be a cloak to selfishness and personal ambition. But, in these days, unfortunately, professions and prac tice often run to opposite extremes ; and the consti tuency of Birmingham have lent themselves to the full development of the phenomenon. In plain language, Birmingham has been Sturged. (From the Cambridge Advertiser.) We live in strange times, and consequently may ex pect to witness strange things. There is, for instance, the result of the Birmingham election—few will hesi tate' to admit the strangeness of that event. Indeed, seven years ago had any one ventured to pr e di c t that Radical Birmingham world choose a per son of Conservative principles for its repre sentative in 1844, he would be laughed at for his folly ; but yet the thing has come to pass. We, being no party politicians, can afford to admit this fully and unreservedly, but at the same time we think the solution of the political phenomenon to be simple and obvious. A house divided against itself cannot stand, neither can a party, nor the section of a party • and, therefore, ever since we heard of the s plit that had taken place in the Liberal interest in Birming ham, we set down Mr. Spooner's return as certain and inevitable. Besides, he is, we be believe, a gentleman of great local influence, and deservedly popular with the electors of Birmingham—that coupled with the dis union and antagonism in the ranks of the Birmingham electors, easily, we think, accounts for his triumph over the moral-force Chartist, and the mere Whig. Of course, if local jealousies prevail, men must make up their minds to see the common cause sa crificed—if personal antipathies intervene, men must lay their account with witnessing the ruin of public principles. Nothing is surer than that. The Liberals of Birmingham have themselves to thank for the defeat they have sustained, and it is only to be hoped that they will profit by the lesson that has been read them. If they do, the Liberal cause will be rather served than injured by Mr. Spooner's return ; but dozens of sunk returns cannot make up for the loss of strength occasioned to the Ministry by the feelings of distrust and disappointment that obtain amongst their supporters, and that are so spreading amongst Con servative constituencies in every quarter of the empire. Look how severely their conduct on Earl Powis's Bill has been censured by their friends both in and out of Parliament—look what a storm of odium Sir J. Gra ham's tampering with the Post-office called down upon them; these things are not to be forgotten, or atoned for by the addition of one unit to the number of their par tisans in the Lower House. Character is everything with the country in the long run ; and, indeed, in the present condition of rarties, with a servile majority of ninety at the beck of Ministers, the result of an isolated election can only be a matter of very secondary importance. Ii is only as a sign of the times that it is at all worthy o notice. (From the Worcestershire Chronicle.) The Birmingham election has terminated, as we pre dicted, in the return of Mr. Spooner, by a considerable majority. This is owing to the unfortunate division in the Liberal ranks, occasioned by the Complete Suf , fragists, who must have known, in bringing forward Mr. Sturge, that there was not the ghost of a chance of securing his election. The only purpose served by the line of conduct they thought fit to adopt, is the pur pose of the Tories, the hereditary enemies of good government. They have demonstrated, at the same time, the absurdity of their pretensions, laid bare the weakness of their cause amongst the electoral body, and established beyond the possibility of question which of the two Liberal candidates ought to have given way to the other. Three hundred and fifty votes given for Mr. Sturge; more than seventeen hundred for Mr. Scholefield! Surely the former and his supporters could not have expected the majority should give way to the minority, that the 1,700 should allow the 350 to impose, as it were, a candidate upon them ! The probale result of the contest, as between Mr. Scholefield and Mr. Sturge, must have been ascer tainable before the election. Mr. Sturge and his friends, had they made any calculations upon the subject, as various communications to the press on their behalf would lead us to believe they did, must have known sufficient of the comparative position occupied by each candidate, to be convinced that it was hopeless for them to contest the election. Yet they and he persisted, and the consequence of their unpatriotie obstinacy has been that they have a Tory Member, instead of a Liberal one. The principle on which the Complete Suf fragists have acted is just like that which is mani fested in spoilt children, who, because they cannot have just what they desire,' throw away the good thing they might have. Because the Complete Suffra gists cannot have a member whose political sentiments exactly match their own, they contrive to let in, not the one whose opinions come the nearest to his, but the one who is the farthest removed from him, who has scarcely a single sentiment in common with the pattern they have set up. And when they have done this they believe, for we (rive them credit for sincerity, that they are going the right way to work to promote an extension of the yopu -I.r liberties, and to advance the cause of good Go vermient ! We pity their infatuation, and lament its result. DEATH OF COOKE, THB CELEBRATED EQUES :MAN.—This patriarch of the Circus died a few days aqn in Liverpool, in great distress ; so much so, that a few friends, who knew him in his prosperity, are now getting up a subscription for his destitute widow. The Royal Amphitheatre in the town—that noblest edifice of its kind out of London—is one of the many structures he built in the course of his extraordinary and diversified career ; and there is no town in the empire where he and his troop were not well• known twenty or thirty years ago. COPENHAGEN, JULY 11.—Yesterday morning the Russian frigate Aurora, of 44 guns, arrived in the Chan nel (die Renne) bound from Cronstadt to England. It took in a stock of fresh water. News is come to-day from Dragoe, that a Russian fleet, coming from the south, was in sight at eight o'clock this morning ; three ships were two miles south of Dragoe.—Haniburyh Boursenhalle, July 13, be unnecessary ; and if it were not adopted his Gallant Friend could, if he would postpone it now, bring it for ward as a distinct proviso on bringing up the report ; and if his lion. and Gallant Friend would make a slight alteration in the wording of the clause he would consent to his proposition. But he thought it best that the pro position of the Hon. Member for Westmoreland should be first decided, as it was a most important proposition, and worthy of most attentive consideration. Mr. WAKLEY supported the "amendment. Colonel WOOD, at the suggestion, of Sir J. Graham, postponed his amendment till the bringing up a the report. The clause as amended was then agreed , to. On clause 58 being proposed, which related to the appointment of paid auditors by parishes under local Acts, Mr. HOGG moved that the parishes of St. George, St. Pancras, Marylebone, and St. James's, should be excluded from the provisions of the clause. Sir J. GRAHAM said that if he could be satisfied that an independent audit under Sir John Hobhouse's Act was secure, then he should say the present clause was superfluous and unnecessary as regarded those parishes. Sir C. NAPIER did not think that barristers were fit persons to be appointed auditors. The system adopted in the parish of Marylebone with respect to the appoint ments of auditors had worked in the best possible man ner. He moved that the Chairman do report progress. Sir B. HALL said that he had paid a good deal of at tention to the parish affairs of Marylebone, and he had never heard of any cmplaint with respect to the ap• pointmejit of auditors in that parish. Sir J. GRAHAM said he did not care who appointed the auditors, provided that the auditors were independent of the body appointing them. He wished to eonsult the wishes of the rate-payers. If they were satisfied, then he should be satisfied also.—(Hear, hear.) He would, therefore, not press that part of the clause which went to the appointment of barristers as auditors.—(Hear.) The clause, as amended, was then ordered to stand part of the Biil. Clause 59 was agreed to. On clause 60 being proposed, Mr. HENLEY was understood to propose that all future clerks of boards of guardians should be attorneys Colonel SIBTHORP was understood to support the proposition. Sir J. GRAHAM strongly opposed the proposition, which would have the effect of mixing up law and liti gation in every matter of business, however trivial it might be. The open system of appointment had worked well, and why then interfere with it ? Mr. WAKLEY said if they were to require the clerks to boards of guardians to be lawyers they would instantly entail an expense of thousands and thousands upon every union in the kingdom.—(Hear, hear.) He was most strongly opposed to the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire, and he trusted the Govern- ment would remain firm in its determination not to con sent to it. The proposition of the Hon. Member for Oxfordshire was then understood to be withdrawn. Sir JAMES GRAHAM then moved that the Chair man report progress and ask leave to sit again this day. SAVINGS' BANKS. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented two petitions corn. plaining of the operation of the Savings' Bank Regula• Lion Bill. CONTROVERTED ELECTIONS. • Mr. T. DUNCOMBE also presented a petition from Mr. Rigby Wason, of the county of Ayr, stating that he had been summoned before the Committee on Controverted Elections, and had given certain evidence before that Committee ; but had seen with surprise that in the report it had agreed upon, his evidence so given had been suppressed, and praying for the production of that evidence. The Hon. Member gave notice that to-morrow he would move that this petition be printed with the votes. AGRICULTURAL. PROTECTION. Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN presented several peti tions from the county of Northampton, praying for pro tection to agricultural produce. • • QUEEN'S STORES. Captain PECHELL presented a petition from Mr. Duncan M'lntyre, of Fort William, North Britain, stating that some years ago he was the means of detect ing various embezzlements in certain stores, the pro perty of her Majesty, for which he was entitled, under the Act 10th William the Third, to 2002 from the Board of Ordnance, and praying the House to give him just remuneration for services for the exclusive use of his country. IRISH MAGISTRATES. Mr. ROSS gave notice that on Tuesday next he should move for an humble address to her Majesty, praying for the removal of Mr. O'Driscoll, recently restored to the commission of the peace in Ireland. POST-OFFICE COMMITTEE. On the motion of Mr. BARING, leave was 'given to Lord John Russell to attend the Committee of the House of Lords on the business of the Post-office. SINKING FUND. .. Mr. WODEFIOUSE moved for a continuation of the returns relating to the Sinking Fund up to the present 4:....... REPEAL BUTTONS. Mr. WYSE said that, seeing the Right Hon. Gentle man, the Secretary at War, in his place, he wished to ask him the question of which he had given notice. He had observed in a Dublin newspaper, a few days Ago, a report of an occurrence stated to have taken place in the Castle of Dublin. A young man, named Osberry, was driving a lady through the gates of the Castle of Dublin, and \ the soldier on guard asked him if he had a repeal button. He replied "No," And the lady told the soldier that he ought nut to have stopped the man. The soldier followed him, and asked if he had a repeal button in his pocket, to which he replied that he had ; upon which he was taken to the Chancery-lane station-house, and was next day brought before the magistrates, who dismissed him as not being guilty of any offence. A case of a similar description had occurred to a person named Ignatius Ennis. He wished therefore to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War whether any orders had been given on the subject, and if so, whether they had been given by the Commander-in-Chief ? Sir T. FREMANTLE said that, in reference to the question which had been asked by the Right Honourable Gentleman, no orders had been issued with regard to the Castle of Dublin, but the Commander of the Forces for bade any civilian wearing political or party badges from being permitted to pass through the barracks in Ireland. lie had not been able to obtain any precise information with regttrd to the case alluded to by the Right lion. Gentleman. He had every reason to believe that the ,rder with regard to the barracks was legal, and of course if any person actually under those orders had exceeded his duty he would be responsible for the con sequences, and he believed that the soldier had been threatened with a writ, and the officer hail been bound over to appear on a charge of false imprisonment. LOAN SOCIETIES. In answer to a question from Mr. COWPER, on the subject of loan societies and pawnbrokers, Mr. GLADSTONE said that there was no proba bility of the report on this subject being laid on the table of the House during the present session, but it would be finished during the recess. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave notice that he would postpone the order of the .day on the Savings' Banks Bill, in order that the Poor-law Amendment Bill might be proceeded with. PROCEEDINGS ON THE POST-OFFICE COMMITTEE. Mr. DUNCOMBE rose, and said that he wished to matte a statement with respect to a particular branch of the proceedings of that House. He had given notice of his intention, in order that the Government or the gen tlemen comprising the Secret Committee in the Post,- office should not be taken by surprise. Be was well aware that it was not the practice or rule of the [louse to refer or interfere with the proceedings .f Committees during their sittings, but he thought there were cases in which it was right to refer to them. fie thought it was preposterous and most absurd for any body to lay down a rule that surosing a, Committee of that House had done great injustice or committed some error, no reference should be made to that act of injustice that error, until such Committee had made its report, when it would be too late to remedy the injustice or correct the error. He wished to call their attention to proceedings which were of considerable importance to the public. On Saturday last he was summoned before the Commit tee on the affairs of the Post-office. On being summoned before that Committee, he was told that the Committee understood that he had a statement to make to them. He said that he had no statement •to make, but, as regarded any information that it was in tits power to give that Committee, he would be most happy to give it, iTe was then asked if he was prepared to prove certain charges that he had made in his place in Parliament ? He stated he was prepared to prove them by evidence. He was then asked if he would repeat the charges which he had made in his place in Parliament ? And he did rtpeat the charges which he had made. Ile repeated to the Committee the, same c h arges he had brought forward in the House, and each member of that ('ommittee took down deliberately what he said, Sp th a t he stood in the position of one preferring 411 indictment against the Government. 'There was no reason why he should not now repeat to the House what lie had stated on a former occasion, and thet was that the letters of Foreign Ministers had bgen, and were, opened ; that a very unscrupulous use had been made, during two years, of this secret power of opening letters ; that a roving commission had been appointed in the year 1842 for the purpose of opening letters in the country ; that the letters of certain individuals had been opened ; that he (Mr. Duncombe V(43 in a position to prove, as he believed, that his own letters had been opened ; thet some fifty or sixty of Mr,, Mazzini s letters had been opened since Christ mas t that Captain Stolzman's letters had also bden opened ; an d t h at all Vais • had been done at the instance of Fereign Governments. He (Me ; Duncombe) also described to the Committee the vvay in %bleb ho believed letters were opened in the lost 'office, eed he also stated he was in a condition to prove the existence of a secret or inner office, where this dark werk was carried on. Having done this, the Committee asked him (Mr. Duncombe) to hand into them the list of witnesses by whom his charges were to be proved. He said, were he to do this, he should attend in the condition of an accuser ten times more than hey fore, and he could only' comply with this d eman d on conditionjthat he should be present duri;ag the examina tion of teSe witnesses. The Committee then stated that they did not posses 4 any such power as that of allowing him be present without the leave or r peai or the House. In that opini on he (Mr. Dunds bon ncome) fully concurred ; and as they prest-41 f3r his list of wit nelses, he (Mr. Dunconte) made a formal application that the Chairman of the Committee should apply to the Hotta() for permission to enable him to 4, present, he of course being perfect . / willing to pledge himself to the same spereeylf-(Hear, kear)— which the other pAenllzep of he Qoauzittee were bowi4 do° rto observe. H e was th en or d ere d to w ithdraw ; a his return he was informed that the Comm.itte ° .l. decided to ask the permission of the House for him to present at their sittings. He (Mr. Duneombe) ce tluf c 2 had nothing to complain of in the demeanour of any the the members of the Committee towards him. They , t io all of them in their manner most indulgent to , u .,„ (Hear, and a laugh)—indeed, be might almost „ . " 1, ; their conduct as coaxing.—(Loud laughter.) 1t . ,„ 8 ,, s then suggested to him that he might leave his ~P„„"rt i e. in the hands of some member in whom he hence, and 'who might put all the requisite ,ques s t t '_' s ts e (Hear, hear.) T o t hi s h e (M r. D unco mbe) l.o bo j plied with perfect candour and courtesy that ne mer. ) equal confid ence i n a ll o f them.—(Loud lan.gliess He was perfe c tly we ll aware t h at cert ain wit the would give their evidence reluctantly, to saY.ve it least, and that others would, probably, ric' t g i l e for at all ; in which case it would be impossibo, the the Committee to en ter into the merits very question. Still the Committee pressed hil n ,,i t ios much to give up hi s li s t an d to place them in the in which he stoed himself'. He said it was totellLseg possible that he could do so unless he nw i thes were present at the examination. Well now, I f t t he look at the state of this question. I ri ses to first place, he was called to furnish a list of w itnes was support certain charges which he had made, and . !! esses not to be present during the time that those wilu ote , were to be examined. The Committee was elV sc hich as he had before said, to'investigate certain charges s , es t, lie (Mr. Duncombe) h a d b roug h t aga i nst t h e Governisi but it turned round s u dd en l y an d converte d itself IF, into a tribunal for tryi ug hi s (M r . D uncom b e ' s ) veraeltl'v big (Hear, hear.) He was pe r f ec tly rea d y t o satin se i, credibility to that Committ e e, b u t it was to t a lly ila e ln s t ble that any gentl eman w h o h a d not ta k en the Y;;„, that he had to beco me mas t er o f t h e subject, hamskcoli' mine the witness es i n th e same manner asbe They must rememb er th a t no l awyer was a ll o weu to e d on ori the Committee. H ere were n i ne gent l eme n tu;: ea into a room, totally i gnorant o f t h e su bj ect they were called on to investigate.--(Hear, hear.) It vo i s known that the c hi e f w it nesses w hi c h they hs j u flar e mined were the different heads of the " er g' ments, and he maintained that, as far a; o elj had gone, or we re lik e ly t o go, t h ey had star skimmed the surf ace on thi s great an d important lest tion. The public would not be satisfied if the te, 00 1 remained in its present p os iti on . Th e public cl: w want a report containin g a grea t d ea l o f original at antique research, but they wanted to kno w h exact circumstances under which this power er e been exercised by th e present and past G° ° oB ments. He maintained that the truth could' no ascertained, unless he were present during the exall', o l tion of certain witnesses. It was for the House tof:a with the question as in their wisdom they might proper. atl o Lord SANDON and Mr. HUME then rose to the House amidst some confusion. • eo The SPEAKER having observed, that there wa s question before the House, Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved, that it be an instrec ii b l to the Committee that h e m i g h t b e present during the examination of such witnesses as he might think Pin to examine. Mr. HUME seconded the motion. , te e ' Lord Lord SANDON, as Ch a i rman o f t h e Conna'ed of wished to make one or t wo remar k s. He complaint be the terms of the Honourable Member's notice , t he Honourable Member having himself admitted to the Committee that he could not b e a ll owe d to examin e s e. • witnesses with ou t an app li cation to the L' a so The Committ ee f e l t t h at the Hon. Gentleman na et knowledge of th e p art i es hi mself, and that be on ly , s he on' information r ece i ve d f rom others. For him I°lipf, present, therefore, examining witnes ses an d obser the evidence, would have been virtually to have e v ict:: on the Committee—(Hear, hear)---without his l os r the responsibility of b e i ng a mem b er of i t. The mittee conceived themselves to be quite Tr o st of examinin g w it nesses t h emse l ves ; but they di. to think that it would in any w a y d e f eat t h e o bj e ct . or , investigation to refuse t o a d m i t hi m to b e presen t as t he the inquiry. They should be most happy to ha ve o ld H t Hon. Member on th e C omm i ttee, if the House the think fit to place him there, as he would then hav e same responsibility as the other members of it. lad Mr. HUME said h e was sorry that this question _4O been manag e d as i t h a d b een. It had thrown col deal of scandal on the British Government a broalL ot H ) the present proc ee di ng was lik e l y to add to it.—(so' Ile was sorry he was not i n t h e H ouse when t he D mittee was appointed, or he should have oppotte u omission of his Hon. Friend's name. He believedin ue d annals of Parliament n o s i m il ar i nstance could be4set of a person aiming for w a r d as his llon,Friend had Oh and giving himself all th e t rou bl e h e had done, f o r n'oe the country owed him a great deal.—(Hear, healo„ h a d Committee were pl ace d i n a li m i ted sphere ; the y i 4 only official men b e f ore t h em, and could know r!_?:esd, of the persons w h o gave i n f ormation to his Hon..r, r ',. of He thobght th e N o bl e L ord took a narrow Weal what the C omm i ttee h ad to do. The Noble -to said that his Honourable Friend wanted W t tee , aware of all th e secrets of the Cons° f but his Hon. Friend never wanted to be a member ° t he Committee, and lie only wished to be present during,ot examination of those w it nesses w h o were t o sli b P i rap those charges which he made on his own responsk ses s) His Hon. Friend did no t wan t t o vote.—(Hear, or He only wished before the report was ma d e , that an e s portunity should be given to him to have that P o o of the inquiry sifted. Few persons would have takes uP themselves the responsibility of making those grave do se serious charges ag a i nst t h e Government which h i t Friend Friend had do ne , an d i t was i mpossible to conveY,t°oo. nldividual member of the Committee that which Mt it to Friend had the means of doing. He, therefore, Pr u e the Right Hon. B arone t w h et h er his Hon. Friend° not to be present. On thess grounds he should se e the motion of his Hon. Friend. so° Sir R. PEEL said he was unwilling to throw' il i ts technical difficulty in the w a y o f t h e mot i on w hich Lion. Hon. Gentleman had ma d e , a l t h ough he thought 'laser justified, accordin g t o th e ru l es o f the House, In °Y•iwitll ing to a Member of that House stating anythi n getee. respect to the p rocee di ngs o f a Secret Ccann'' th e but he was unwilling to • debar the Hon. Gentlema n 0 f opportunity of maki ng hi s statement. No not i c e t motion had bt en given, and he (Sir R. Peel) wa s ;0' loss to understand the grounds upon which the T he Gentleman had made the present motion. n jer House would reco ll ect the circumstances te'heti which this Committee had been appointed. the proposal was first made almost unqualified sa7 t yl lion was expresse d w i th respect to the formation O'„ to Committee.—(Cries of " N o , no ." ) He did not mea t say that it was un i versa l , b ut the Committee was ab°,oo; to be appointed without notice being given. ~„0 1 , 1 1 ; Committee wa s com p ose d o f men well is-tse for their impartiality and intelligence. 11 1 fi e Committee the majority 'of the m em bers h erl opposed to her Maje sty ' s G overnment. Four nietae were in the habit of voting with her M a j A el tl' e Government, and fi ve w i t h the Opposition, an-f whole of those five members voted for the motion H ° o r on: Gentleman for a Select Co mm it tee . That . 0 mittee had sat for several days, and he left it to e b o Member to judge whether her Majesty's Governme n r "or withheld a single f ac t f rom the knowledge of the' Coo' mittee bearing on the inquiry, and whether i sol had thrown the slightest obstacle in the es‘ of the inqui r y, or imposed the 8 1 - ig ,v ht 00; itnpediment the way of the e xam i nat i on of any ca' whatever, either under the control of her Mail ,10 ° Government or not. Her Majesty's Government h a e o' personal intere s t i n t h e question which the linn'„ielf tleman had s u b m i t t e d to the House. He el ; r e 10 shou!el feel it his d u t y to a d v i se the House to ate fe . that muse which h a d a l ways b een adhered to ivi" 0 .0 sped to Committees of that House. The q uestiol!bil a hether the H ouse now repented the confidence o ,!„ c s of had placed i n th e C omm i ttee. It was from no fee"l.o h disrespect th a t t h e H on. G entleman had not seen hei rig on the Com mi tt ee . H e conceived that permission "to; given to the H onoura bl e Member to attend coo' Committee, he not being a member of the mittee, and not subject to the eesponsiw,i e ea which was imposed u p on mem b ers of Secret Conl`tice; would, he thought, be casting a reflection on the 1 3 ° i; o t) it would imply on the part of the House a distrust j ot s in the stab i li ty o f the Committee, and their desire bee searching and perfectly fair inquiry into the transaction — secret-office and all. At th e same to sv l e assured the House, and the report which the Con n ' her Ai ould make would bear testimony to the fact, th at hst; .Majesty's Govern men t were interested in no weY d, ap d ever in the decision which the House might come t °; to it 9 lse felt it his duty to call on the House to a dhere 00 forms, and regardless of any personal imputation ft te might be throw n u p on hi m, as the representative °, the Government, that he had some object in excludiets, Hn. Gentleman, he felt it his duty to resist th e rt 'tb e posal of the Hon. Member ; nor could he sual; teal proposal which bad been made for the Hon. - Ge n-e e se° - to appear before that Committee, in order to be P r e set s at the examination of the witnesses. If the a cc a wore to be present, in order that the evidence wig e l ' given in support of the accusation, why should W I bi present also who were' aconsed ? Mr. DUNCOMBE—I have no objection to tha t. ,tioe Sir R. PEEL--,The Hon. Gentleman felt the )4 ti it' of that, and ex p resse d hi s readiness to acqu:fesee but be tSir R. Peel) claimed no such itseivileKlear thought the House ought to adhere to itieir es ts t i;d e" rules. Th e G overnment were indif f erent as to, c oo t cision to whi c h t h e H ouse might come, because he bee b e venture to day that the ITOUP, would be satisfied t hat th e Al4Jeat)'s Government had concealed nothing fr° ,4 l4 s ' Committee. Th ey had no wish to conceal an.losinS" but he felt th a t h o had a duty to perform in the P-01' in which he stood, regardless of any imputation might be cast upon him. Mr. ORD was understood to op pose the motion' for the Mr. LABOUC HERE said it would be well d l r? a tb s e r House to reocillect the principl e th ey h a d ador e It' appolutin ent o f this Committee.—(Hear, belay torr e ; h 0 departed f rom the usual precedents .I'll ing Committ ee i ; for they had detern ll° ` „ Ct . they would have no lawyers on th e n et mittee that th e accuser himself should it resent—and also that they would exclude f i l e r those who did hold or had held high office i n t he t i- e ; jesty's Council.--(Hear.) He con f esse d that at tenc il he thou g ht thi s was a fair prinoiple, but circutes e ' d ial l 6 totals place a short time afterwards which exe i b e ts, w a a, mind, and in the minds of many other geT ife'"ey greatest possible surprise.—(Loud cries o f ieforlet hear.") He tbund from the usual organs °' suki r as, tiots ,but a Committee on the seine r 1.10 been appointed by the House e t ' s ey u erf which Committee oat formed on a ~t e ° Min i ss 94 of • ferent principle than that suggested by w itw. ri g• for the HOthig ocCommons. For, on the c s ° ,Tsra bel est the Lords were three ex-Ministers, two ei I s t he °se es-vsbancellors, mon, of course, accustomed G°" skilful skilful mo d e of examination either I r t he u os t pressing or f or e li c i t i ng information. • diff cr t hio vents:seat meant t o • ac t upon a totally _ Rrincißle elsewhere, they ought not to have P nr. tosi cop _ th e ;Mb tna th e te r , tur 100 110 the