The Sun. — London, England, 1845-04-16 00:00:00

atland ) ‘ ila Or` befog r made I all be dis' aro P a in the Deyol4 Iter.'' for the 13111 be le D! r iri - ter. NTS a ll 're' bat 031 ere d 10 petiticf , l rupan). u nction d to be t Ftgi a re Jii ll A . 'secori- e sente d S;olon el gati?l'. e AN'e s. go' other countl w titio n 1 (frog cowbe' atitio o ot tb° 'ti tioo so ne I proe for a ,dote d e I°' )f th e 05 0 ' 3 '; •ege",i 5 tbe F ; ow' d TUE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY --- IVI'ORNING APRIL 16 1845. had ben piatrin , in from every direction comp'aining the ell; i•t: of the • flatlet. and praying r i ouiry. Sir JAME.; GRAHAM said he would fix the second readir g of (he Rill for Mon.!ati next. Mr. WAKLEY would tken give notice of his ni , ticn for Tuesday. IMPEACHMENT OF SIR R PEEL. Mr. FERNAND moved that the pt , aiti,tn which he had press-rt. d , h, (rhea eve• in Prot g, from the Operative AssociA•ioll 04 . Dublin, he print. d with the vot(,.. He did a know ary r, as .:r why objec tions should hs raj,. d to this petition being printed, as it was tito-t resta-ctfully orcL d. It contained certain allegation s against the Fir s t L or d o f t h e T reasury , w hi c h al legations it was hi, ( r. Ferranti's) intention to bring under the notice of the House on the third reading of the Collag e of Mayrototh Bill, if it should ever arrive at that Sorge. He therefore hoped that no Hon. Meanber would think it necessary to oppose the printing of this petition. Mr. HIN . DI,EY secondet - t the maim]. Colon e l R )N said he had 13.-on in hop.., th the Hon. Me•niter for Knaresb , troutah would not have made this it otion—that he would not have singled out that petition to be circulated amongst the Mem bers of that House. What would be the consequence of making that motion. Why, that on the fAlowing morning every Member of that. House would have on his breakfest table this petition.—(Great laughter.) He begged the House to recollect that in 1829 Row in Catholic Members were admitted into that House, a! d that Roman Catholic Members would road that petition. What did thLt petition comain ? It con tained these cords, "That the petitioners have learned that laws areaboat bob. ititruduced int, tr , e House br the head of the Governmnt, haying for their objeio the ir,!tdcati tn in public seminaries of Popish prineiples— bitchgrin•being notoriously, deraonstrall: and, according to ar, Anti 7 Chris.rati I Where was that feeling waich ought to predominate amongst Christians ? He was not obj. cting to the introduction of this petition, but he begged shortly to call the attention of the House to gEane circumstances with reference to it. It mi ght be in the recollection of the House that the greatest authority in that House, after the Sptuker, to matters of form, the 111cmher f r Montgo - Ineryshire, expressed doubts as to 'he proper ad rssion of thi s p e titio n , an d as to it s r i g ht t o b e 441 on the table of the House. That Honourable Gentleman did nct act upon these doubts in con sequence of the interpositittn of the Right Hon. Gentle- In ans agai ns t whom the shaft had been levelled. It was not a matter of neces-ity that the petition presen.ed by Pe Hon. Member for K.•atesb ,ritugh should be printed— if he wished to bring the Prime Minister to contli.sn Punishment. as the petitioners prayed —if he wished to nnitate Mr. Burke in a mettoire of impeachment. he Rawdou) expect, d the print:ng of thi- petition "as not a necessary preliminary. The petition could be referred to a Committee up stairs, accord i ng thq custom of the House, and it the Committee con sidered there was matter of import they might order it to .be Printed. He relied on the good sense and generous feeling- of the House— he thought this wa. not Party question, and he felt convincer that no man of !heritable feeling in that II use, or out of I t , could sanction the words " f.lse, idol trouns. end anti-Christian." as applied to the religion ch More than half of th e ir fellovv subject,— (Rear, hear.) Had Honourable Members seen the 1, tter relating to the petition signed by the Member for Krhresb,.rough He would not insult the House of Com ta"us by ment i on i ng i ts l anguage, b u t h e f e l t c o nv i nce d that there was hardly another Member of that Rouse w h o would write such a letter as that which th e Honourabl e M em b er for Koaresbotatugh had written. He disclaimed all personal off-nce, but thi s fearl ess l y an d f u lly ex p rea hi s op i n i on on 'is matter. The terms ef the letter sho.‘ed clearly the animus which existed in its writer. In a word, he considered it vorild degrade the dignity of the Huse of Commons in the eyes of the nation if, by or ering thiS petition to be printed, they in some measure Camped it with their sanction. If the petitioners really intended to impeach Sir R theft Peel. and chose the Ron. Member for linaresborough for a leadar. they were at perfect liberty to do so ; and the Hon. Moniker liould be perfectly justified in carrying out their wi,hes. But as the representative of what was termed in Ireland, "Protestant Armagh," he must of ject to the wording of this petition. He would therefore move a direct ne gative to the motion. Lord NORTHLAND c.trisidetred that the petition co ntained expression s w hi c h o u g ht t t prevent th e Ho u s e f rom agreeing to the motion that it be printed with the votes. Mr. REDINGTON said that when he considered that one of the passages in the Coronation oath contained ex pressions not dissimilar to those which bad been re ferred to by his lion. Friend the Member for Armagh, in reference to the Roman Catholics, he thought that House would be acting with great inconsistency if they exhibited any squeamishness in receiving the peti tion of the Hon. Member for Knareshorough.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") For himself be never had and river would stoop to answer those foul calumnies— (Loud cheers)—thoug , he consider,d it waA dis4rAcing the Crown of these realms to make it swear to them. Sir R. INGLIS said he suppotwi the next measure of her .Majesty's Uo , erntnent would he a measure to do away with th e passage referred to by the Hon Gentle man who spoke last, expecially as his remarks had been It) loudly c h eere d by the other side.—(" Hear, hear, " and & laugh.) But he rose for the purpose of calling the at tention of the House to the practice of the House, that when a petition was ordered to lie on the table it was almost a matter of course that it should be Printed with the votes, when an Hon. Member declared tits intention of making a motion upon it. That was t he usual course, without any reference to the language all the petition, and upon that ground alone, without at s aying that he concurred in the language or the expressions of the petition, he should vote for the motion t r ivi h.e Hon. M em b er f or K uares b oroug h, if presse d to a 81 in . N , Sir J. GRAHAM sa id t h at ho certa i n l y regrette d t h e "sage in the petition which the lion. and Gallant Officer the Member fur Armagh had brought under the Il i ? t ice of the House. He regretted that any petitioners a t Quid have used language so painful and so ,nsive iv 4wards a, large portion of her Majesty's subjects. feelWaS not on the present occasion that he should ~pranuttetrpothiielt,necegsity of entering into a discussion t ' i ?t c er much less was it any part of his duty to P the present occasion into a discussion upon ' ter ros in which the Coronation oath was e‘')iiihehed. As to the point of order, he agreed 4.etuthhis Honourable Friend - the Member for Oxford. t o "tight it was a general rule of the House, subject Qxeeptions in some peculiar cases, that when an terilL,Meinber pledged himself on presenting a petition . shape it under the special notice of the House in the 1 )1 .i, 1 ? of a motion, it was, as a matter of course, to be th4' e d with the votes. The question then arose whether Pe4ownaltao.ything so special in the cir i cu t i h n h, prev e tile o. t a u n s w u e eaa s(° l s r f a KQ t l t i .1 an 4(-1 said that the languag p e eration of the o petition . wit Stitt' kind, b ut h e d i d not think that the language e nle 8 Stie h as to t a k e i t out o f t h e genera l ru l e. Th en the question as to the allegation, that the First ' , ster of t h e Crow n had been guilty of high crimes and rt,? inter that allegation a reason _that the ' e should re f use to print the petition ? Now, the or e 4,4id'lember for linaresbormigh had said that he (Cries make that allegation the übject of a motion.— Graham I, " No, no," and " Yes , yes.") Was he (sir J. .'i'ato) right ?—(Hear, hear.) noticer FIAIRAND said that he had list night given Sir or the tnotion which he intended to make. fe t , 11 :, GRAHAM said if the Hon. Memi , er meant to tupon the petition a motion respecting the allegai 111 '3 n- 14 3 a gainst the First Minister of the Crown, neither je l s - t „ s `g,ht Hon. Friend, nor any member , of her Ma „ linyernment would offer the slightest opposition itie printing of the petition.—(Heat, hear.) noticer* F ERRAND sail that he had last night given sh e "f the motion w hi c h h e s h ou ld b r i ng f orwar d on Effect third r eadinz of the Bill. Th e mot i on was t o th e lion that " The Catholi c B equests .A c t was a viola ,a.th of the Act of S ett l ement ant i a contravent i on o f t h e aft„," (-)1 suprem a cy." Wh at other course lie might th rwards feel it his duty to take he would state at Hear, hear." and " Oh, i ih.") • t ea °I.(1 J. RUSSELL said he understood the Ho ntle „l theho last spoke to say, that he intended to found lotion t e Petition accusing the first Minister of the Crown, of high Cason, and calling on the House to impeach Hear, i i ar k • ) Now he (Lord J. Russell) could not agree with the mattegut Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir R. Inglis) that it was . a evr of course, according to the rules of the House. to print f,,, Pr n Y Petition Il i on which an Hun. Member undertook to (I : a motio n It w-ts a matter of course upon all o Binary ti But But the present was a peculiar case. The peti- A 11 9., made the heaviest allegations against the personal p;ntater of the Crown, and asked for impeachment. Now the ,g,11.t.,11011• Gentleman (Sir J. Graham) very naturally exi. N l T'' , a wish not to oppose the printing of the petition on feet. ground. He (Lord J. Russell) could understand the th at Il igs of the Right Hon. Gentleman. For himself, he thought ttitthe House, even if it were intended to found on this .in a motion directly impeaching the conduct of the first 't.,!etnist.er.of the C:•own, ought to pause before they consented to rt Printing of this petition. But he did not think that when Motion was to be made on the third reading, and that when t‘l"iltinotion alluded, partly indeed, to the Bill, but, for the b y I t t h. Part, to an Act of Parliament passed last session—passed consent of the Queen, Lords, and Commons, and stated settlect of Parliament was a violation of the Act of n ot moot and of the Act of Supremacy, he could iraut. consider that that could be considered as a motion ; ~,,o P ,a,elling the first Minister of the Crown, and he 4 say th a t t h e printing that petition, altleiugh it w.`„_enot positively say that, in the opinion of the House, there ground s for impeaching the Prime Minister, yet. it did ii,,,3.,:r.i.epgaiyattihotait,Lhe(re was something reasonable in the allegations, t least, that they were not altogether frivolous and absurd Hear, hear.) Now, the allegation s of this pe _,%:a might be divided into two parts. One part, as had been a, rved by the Right Hon. Member for Montgomeryshire, other evening, directed to the conduct of the Ri tilt Hon. Gentleman the Member for Tamworth, as a Member of that at% vsetwithregard to motions made by him, Bills brought in, es given by him, as a Member of that House.—( Hear, I:tevar2° the ci,uld form no ground fur proceedings on the advisif the House. Another set of allegation s accused him of fulfil t ng the Crown, in his capacity of Privy Counsellor, to ee rt _, n provisio ns of the Catholic Bequests Act, and to place ti.eynan Catholic prelates on the Catholic Requests me dir tt l . Rivingshe them precedence according to the provisions of Published order in council, and it stated that the appoint of".t, e f th ese Members to that B oar d was a violati hct ' of cf supremacy, and a v i o l at i on of the tlt _ uitremacy itself ( Lor d J o h n R ussell Hear.) N ow , i t appeared to —4 that this was a frivolous allegation. not a plausible allegation. They could not take any li e : edi ng upon it, and on that ground alone, even if it had sent lntended to found a motion up , in it, he could not con tlon_ 7: f :r I to give the sanctit.tn of the House to those allega a.s t j,_a to low the petition to be panted.—(Cheers. ) But mt, - Gentleman said that heshould only bring forward Act of , he third reading of the Bill, to the effect that , itin on t . tiulated Settlement and the Act of Supremacy had been oy an Act passed by Parliament in the last session— that p ;f,o_ ,!liarnent havin g a riglit to alter or amend an • pr ceed -0 iftsPeoarnlisaidmeernt—and did not intend to ask the House 3 to take ation the crimes and ruilideraeanours of which the petition - said the - first . Minister of the' Crown 'had been guilty. he ( Lord J. Russell), for one, even if he could find no one else to agree with him, would give a decided negative to the motion.— (Loud cheers.) Mr. SH ARMAN CRAWFORD was anxious to say a few wo de on this painful subject. He deeply regretted that such express e ns , sa irisultine to many of his fellow-eountrymen, as thew which were to b. found in this pe!itices, should have been used in any petition presented to that house. And even had it been recess:try that the petition should be prin ed, it wenlii only have been with the utmost reluctan: e that he could have consented to 'uch a motion. He was anxieus on the pre sent occasion to express these sentimeres because nothing could injurious to the opposition to the Maynooth grant than to have it placed on such grounds. He voted against that grant because on principle he was opposed to the State esta blishing any religion. He was as reluctant as any man could be in that House to oppose that grant on principles insulting to his Roman Catholic fellow. subjects, and he, for one, would vote against the printing of the petition.—( Hear. Ale. LIDDELL would not hare troubled the House if it had not been for the charge made against them by the Hon. Mem ber for Dundalk. of unnecessary squeamishness in refusing to print this petition. The Hon. Member for Dundalk had alluded to the Coronation Oath, and as the oath had been alluded to, he (Mr. Liddell) would read it to the House.—( The Hon. Gentleman here read the Coronation Oath to the House. ) Now, he would ask the House it' there was anything in the Coronation Oath at all resembling the expressions made use of in that petition? Ile might say that the lion. Member's al lusion to the oath of abjuration was equally unfortunate. The oath of abjuration simply called upon a Member to abjure that doctrine which said that any person or prince who was excom niunieated or deprived of power by the Pope might be destroyed or murdered by any of the subjects. Would they pretend to say that that doctrine was nut injurious and damnable. If it were true, he should like to know what security there would be to the life of the su :jects of her Majesty., Mr. REDING-TON said that he was still of opinion that her Vajeatv did declare that , he worship of the Virgin Mary was damnable and idolatrous—now that was the doctrine of the R man Catholics. .11r. DUNCOAIRE said, that the object, the House had in respiring a Member to give notice of his intention to have a petition printed was. to induce that Member to make a notice of motion for some particular day. If a spe cific notice of motion were not necessary, he might hare all the petitions printed without the intention of founding a swims thereon. If the lion. Member fer Knaresberough marls a specific notice of motion, the House could not refuse the printing of the petitioo, and if the petition c ntained anything calumnious or libellous, it were better to have it printed for the use of the Members of the House only. The motion of his Hon. Friend behind him was the best course that could be taken for publicity, if that were his object. lie took the best course to find these objectionable passages on his breakfast table to morrow. Some kind friend from Dublin had favored him (Mr. Duncombe) with a copy of this petition, and he not con.ider it of much importance, or likely to do much harm.—( Hear, hear. ) There was a public feeling that the right of petitioning had been encroached upon, and they ought to be very cautious in refusine the printing of any petition. If the Hon Member gave a specific notice that he would found a motion on the petition, he had a right to have it printed. Mr. FERRAND said that it was not his intention to make a distinct motion on that petition; he would therefore with draw his motion.—( Laughter.) Dr. BOIVIIING presented petitions from Dissenting con gregations meeting in the towns of Blackburn and Oldham, in favour of the grant to Maynooth. Sir R. H. INGLIS presented numerous petitions agains t the grant. Air. S. O'BaIEN and Mr. COLLETT presented similar petitions. Lord WORSLEY presented above sixty petitions from various places in England against the grant. Mr. BRIGHT presented many petitions of a smilar cha racter, and, among them, one from the Society of Friends at Worcester. Lord POLLINGTON and Mr. FERRAND presented similar petitions. Mr. AGLIONBY presented three petitions from as many parishes in Coekermouth, against the grant. The following Hon. Members also presented petitions having a like object in view : —Lord Claude Hamilton, Mr. John Stewart Wortley, Mr. W. Compton, Sir John 'f y rrel (who said that one of his petitions was signed by a great many ladies, who were teachers in Sunday Schools), Sir G. Gore, Mr. Spooner, Birmingham ; Sir George Staunton, from places in Hamp shire ; Mr. Holdsworth ; Mr. Wiltshire, from places in Yar mouth ; Mr. puck, from Devonshire ; Mr. Masterman, from places in the City of London ; Mr. Woodham, from Norfolk ; _ _ Mr. Estcott, from Oxford ; Colonel Sibthorp, from various parishes in Lincolnshire; Mr. Pattison, from one or two places in the City of London; Mr. Sharman Crawford, from Roch dale ; Mr. Enter isle ; Mr. C. Berkeley, from Cheltenham ; i.r. Blewitt, from Monmouth ; Sir W. Clay, from Mile-end and Stepney ; Mr. Bankes, from Dorsetshire; Mr. 0. bun combe, from Yorkshire ; Mr. Ward ; Lord Clive ; Mr. Tolle meche ; Mr. Evans, from pla •es in Derbyshire and Notting•. hamshire ; Lord Castlereagh, from Belfast ; Lord Ingestre ; Mr. P. Stewart ; Mr. Hume, from Essex ; Lord Ebritigton, from Devonshire ; Mr. M. Gibson ; and Mr, Hindley, 120 from various parts of England. MAYNOOTEI. The order of the day fa. the second reading of the May nooth Endowment Bill having been read, Major BERESFORD said he generally gave a silent vote, but thought it right on the present occasion to express his opi nions. He stood before them in a double capacity of an Eng lish representative and an Irish Protestant. He disclaimed all intention of any offensive expressions towards his Roman Catholie fellow subjects, for which he felt a great regard. In 1823, when a young man, he had been offered a seat in Parlia ment, if he would vote against Catholic Emancipation. But he refused to (1 , , so, and remained out of Parliament. Let him not therefore be called a bigot. There were limits to con cession, and when concession had been made to the Catholics of Ireland. he would ask the House how it had been responded to? The Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department had stated that there was a limit to concession ; but it would seem that there was n 3 limit to concession. The motto of the Ministry seemed to be ton ours en avant. As for the question of the compact, he denied that any such existed. He denied that there was any contract at all with regard to the support of Maynooth ; but there was at the time of the union a tangible and firm contract with the Established Church, which was but little regarded. Had not ten bisho p s been swept away, and was not the in come of the ministers of the Established Church diminished one-fourth ?—( Hear, hear. ) This was a new measure altoge ther—it was a measure for an endowment fur the first. time pro posed, and he saw no special reasons why the Roman Catholic religion should be endowed, which would not equally apply to the endowment of other sects. On that principle he would oppose this grant. He did not think the Parliament and peo ple of England would consent to give an increased grant to Maynooth, which had made such bad use of the means already at its disposal.—( Hear, hear.) He who was acquainted with Ireland knew that those who catne out of Maynooth de voted themselves to the propagation of agitation, instead of the dissemination of religion and loyalty. The spiritual head of the Roman Catholic religion was lately obliged to interfere to check their proceedings, while the Right Hon. Baronet was about to give them increased means of mischief. Both the one and the other put forward pretensions to infallibility ; and though the one checked agitation, and the other was inclined to foster it, he could only reconcile their rival claims by sup posing (being permitted, as an Irishman, to commit a bull), that both were infallibly right. He also opposed this measure because he feared it was but the beginning of further endow ment, and the payment of the Roman Catholic priests. The men who had obtained a higher degree of education, and mere refined feelings, should be supported from other sources than those from which they derived their support at present. That was not his opinion —non ;netts hie sumo. It was the general opinion in the House. But from what sources were the Roman Catholic priests to be paid ? The people of England would not submit to any further taxation for this purpo:e, even if the present measure were forced upon them.— ( Hear. ) A general election would soon take place, and the people of England, though they might ab s sin from vituperation for the past, would, however, exercise a vigilant caution with respect to the future.—( Hoar, hear. ) When other means of paying the Roman Catholic clergy failed them, he feared they would then have recourse to the Esta blished Church for the means, for it seemed that expediency was now better than prineiple.—( Hear, hear ) Here, indeed, they had scene-shifters of a character that had seldom been equalled ; for now those who had brought it forward, having found that it was damned on one stage, would now have it re enacted upon another with unbounded applause as the " Rival Catholic."—( Loud laughter and cheers from the Opposition.) Besides the objection he had stated, there were minor ones, with regard to the time and mode of bringing forward this measure to which he wished to allude. With regard to the time, there never was a time when, it was well known, the Bill could h•e brought forward with greater facility by those who had introduced it than the present, for now that party were under no control whatever. Another objection to the time was, that the Government had introduced it at a period when they had refused all aid for scriptural education in Ire land—( Cheers)—for the Government had refused the appeal of the Venerable Primate of Ireland for the means of educating the Protestants of Ireland in the faith in which they believed. —(" Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) Ile main tained that the petitions presented against the grant to May nooth were fully equal to the number presented in former times against the educational clauses of the Factory Bill. That was withdrawn, and he trusted this would also be withdrawn. They were told that the, ,e petitions emanated from agitation, and ought not to be attended to. He denied the fact, he re probated the inference, and he trusted the people would know who rejected their petitions. No part of the Esiablished Church had more reason to complain of disappointed hopes and blighted expectations than the Protestants of Ireland. The Protestants of Ireland knew that it was a sound maxim of re- liaion that whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, but they felt that to apply that principle in politics, and say "whom the Premier loveth he chasteneih," would be most disagreeable in theory, and oppressive in practice.—( Laughter. ) v 'fhe dis memberment of Maynooth would materially assist the stability of the empire. He trusted, that though he had spoken plainly and openly, he had said nothing uncourteous to those who dif fered from him in opinion ; but he did consider that the Go vernment were bringing forward a measure diametrically op posed to the best principles of good government.—( Hear. ) Mr. BYNG wished to say a few words, and they would be but a few on this s4bject. He had felt in terested in the Roman Catholics of Ireland for the last fifty-seven years, and he could not allow this opportunity to pass without saying a few words 111 on the question. He supported this motion, not only on political grounds, but what was far nearer to his heart, on ragions grounds also.— (Cheers.) Ile thought the Catholics of Ireland had been worse governed than any other subjects in Europe—( Hear ) and he could not find in the sacred Scriptures that he was ordered by the great God who had made them all—that he was ordered by that great God to hate any man because he dif fered from him in religion. There was nothing of all this in the Scriptures. He believed that every man had a right to wor hp God Almighty according to that form which he thought would be most ai.ceptable to the great God. God Almighty knew when a man prayed to him aright. He was the searcher of hearts, and He knew when they were sincere. Sincerity was what He loved and He would bear with nothincr ' else. He (Mr. Byng) could not remain in that: ilotue, he could not, in conscience, retain his vote, if lie did not now give that vote in favour of the Roman Catholics.--(Hear, hear.) Ho thought that, on coming to that House, he was on all questions to think of his fellow-men and think of them alone. He must not think of self, 4. And thank God," continued the Hon. Gentleman, " I can lay my hand upon my heart, and say that I have never selfishly voted, or voted in favour of that which I thought contrary to the happiness and welfare of this great country—never, never, never." He was sorry to see in this country so many Pro testants of all sects arrayed against this motion. He remem bered well that in former times they were arrayed in great numbers against a friend of his, Harvey Cembe, who sought to introduce similar liberal measures. He (Mr. Byng) then asked the Dissenters, if they voted against the Catholics on that occasion, what would b. come of themselves next week ? He asked them then, if they thought the Church of England less barbarous to Dissenters than to Catholics? and he found that, Instead of being against him, the Dissenters were altoge ther for hint.—( Hear, hear.) The more he thought of :it the more convinced he was that conciliatory measures were the best means the Government could adopt to restore peace to Irelaod.---( Cheers. ) Let them consider who were the Ministers at present, the Duke of Wellington and Sir Robert Peel. — (Laughter.) And no two persons could dislike this motion worse than the Duke of Wellington and Sir 'Robert Peel.—(Continued laughter.) He did not mean to charge anything against these Ministers, for he was sure that they thought what they did was for the benefit of the country.—( Hear, bear.) But when he (Mr. Byng) thought of the 7,0.10,000 of his Roman Catholic fellow-sub jects, having no endowment whatever, or at least what was scarcely worth the name, and compared that paltry grant with the munificent revenues derived from Ireland for the support of the religion of the remaining million of Protestants, he felt b , und to give his cordial vote in support of this motion. The venerable Member sat down amid loud cheering. Colonel VERNER said it was not his intention to have troubled the House during this debate, but when he considered the general feeling which prevailed throughout the country, when he witnessed the pouring in of petitions to that table, he felt that he should not be properly discharging his duty as an Irish Member, if he gave a silent vote upon this question. He could not agree with the opinion expressed by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Newark, that those petitions did not represent the feelings of the people. He Colonel Verner) had always understood that there were but two ways in which the voice of the people could reach that House. tine of the modes was by petition, and the other through their representatives. If different opinions, therefore, prevailed throughout the country, surely the supporters of this measure had the same facilities for making their opinions known as its opponents had. But had the petitions in fa►our of the grant borne any proportion to the petitions against it ? He had himself had the honour of pre senting, a petition from Belfast against the grant, signed by thirty-seven ministers ; and he would read to the House the Istter which accompanied it. ( The Gallant Member then read the letter, addressed to himself by the petitioners, in which they characterised the grant as one most mischievous in ten dency and unjust in practice.) He (Colonel Verner) had not heard from one Member in that House an argument worthy of the name, to prove that even this measure was ex pedient. He had observed with regret, for some time past, that in any measure relating to Ireland, the Protestants of that. country were forgotten, as if their claims were not worth the tro :ale of invesogation. He would tell the House that that portion of the population had evinced th is loyalty under the most arduous circumstances, and in the most trying times. He recollected when the Protestant yeomen put down a re bellion iu Ireland. They should look to the conduct of those to whom they were now called upon to grant what was called a boon. He hoped lie should have heard something from the Right Hon. Baronet expressive of a good disposition on the part of those for whose benefit this grant was now to be made. His Hon. Friend the Member for Dublin had observed to the House the agitated state in which Inland was two years ago, he might, indeed, have shortened the period, or even have stated that Ireland was not now in its happiest state. The House would recollect the expense to which the Government was put by sending troops to Ireland to suppress the repeal agitation, aria the expense that was contracted in instructing the law officers of the Crown to take legal proceetings against the instigators of the agitation. Was there an individual Mem- ber of that House who said that that body, though differing with the Right Hon. Baronet in political opinions, yet that they were desirous of putting down the agitation with him . ? It was no later than lest week that he himself received two communications from the Repeal Association, calling upon him to support their principles. He never heard of any disposition on the part of these people to give up these proceedings at the time that they were called up .n to grant a sum of money for the education of their priests. Supposing- that he himself could re concile it with his feelings to grant a sum of money for their support, he did not think that this was the most fit period When Mr. O'Connell had received intelligence that this grant was about to be proposed, he in his speech said, " hurrah for Peel and repeal." Could there be any doubt that he meant that it was one step more in favour of repeal. Was there an Honourable Member in the House who would suppose that that was not what he meant? This grant would do no good, it would be ill-received by the Roman Catholics, and it would excite more suspicion in the minds of the Protestants of Ireland that they were neglected. The Protestants of Ireland had continued their loyalty and attachment to the Crown, and displayed it more particularly on one occa sion, which he could not avoid reminding the House of. It was when a body of men, headed by several of the noblemen and gentry of both religions, were instrumental in maintaining the peace of the country ; and yet when it was the wish of the sovereign that that body should no longer exist, it immediately dissolved itself. But the time may come when the reunion of that body may be necessary ; and if they felt themselves neglected by those who ought to support them, it would not be surprising if they united to protect themselves. Mr. HUME said that he was anxious, on so interesting a subject, to offer his opinion on the measure brought forward by the Right Hon. Baronet. If anything in the debate could be more important than another it was the speeeh of the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman who had just sat down, who, from the speech he introduced, must be considered a fair sp cimen of the Irish Protestant. lie called upon them to recollect what had been the state of Ireland. He told them that he had recollected perhaps more than they did of the proceedings in that country, and he detailed contests in that country between I Protestants and Roman Catholics, rebellions and the suppres sion of those rebellions, and massacres which every Member must regret to have taken place. But what was the policy laid down, according to the statement of the Right Hon. Ba ronet last year ? He said that the first step to be taken was to remove the just grounds of complaint under which the Ro man Catholics laboured, and they would thus prevent the possibility of thr.se scenes taking place, year after year, which disturbed the peace of the country for the last half century.— , ( Hear, hear.) It was because the Right Hon. Baronet took that view that he would support this measure. Did not the Right Hon. Gentleman bring forward the Dissenters' Cha pel Bill, which he ( Sir. Hume) supported throughout ? And he should say that he looked back at it as a question of great importance to the country, and would be productive of great benefits.—(flear, hear.) He (Mr. Hume) was afraid that the Roman Catholics of Ireland did not look with a proper feeling on she Catholic Bequests Bill. When he examined Mr. O'Connell on the state of Ireland, he stated that if Roman Catholics were allowed a partial, management of their own affairs they would be satisfied. He (Mr. Hume) thought that the Charitable Bequests Bill had a tendency in that way. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman told the Bight lion. Baronet that the Conciliation-hall was still in existence ; but the course the Right lion. Baronet had taken was the only one which soul put down that agitation which had arisen front the absence of that justice which the Irish had a right to re ceive.—(Cheers. ) The Hon. Member for the University of Dublin took a religious view of the measure ; lie (Mr. Hume) did not look upon it in the same light, and he regretted that a cry should be raised that the Church was in danger—.the' No- Popery " cry—under the idea that Catholicism could not be placed on a level with Protestantism ; they were exciting the feelings that existed centuries ago. They ought to take into consideration the etanges which had since taken place, and not seem to think that any danger could occur from any connexion with the Pope now-a-days. He believed that no race of men could exist together with benefit to themselves or to the Government, unl ess th e y were on a pe r fect equality. He heard Mr. O'Connell state on those benches, that the best means to satisfy Ireland was to remove the grounds of com plaint ; and he (,Mr. Hume) held this measure as one of those steps which t en d e d t o remove t h ose gr i evances complained of. If they gave the R oman C at h o li c pr i es t s an e d uca ti on which would enable them to bring up their parishioners in a moral and religious feeling—if that was to be the effect of this pro ceeding, he thought that it would be a most important mea sure, and productive of great national benefits. Some had complained of the priests as educated at Maynooth. What they wondered at was, that with such a paltry allowance they were able to bring up men capable of filling the respectable situations which parish priests should fill oil coming from May flood). Now they should have money sufficient to give them that education which would empower them to improve their 11,,cks ; and on that ground he looked upon the measure as one of great natio na l b ene fit. If th e y l oo k e d t o o th er continental countries, they would perceive that the Government of each thought it their duty to afford every sect, no matter what were its tenets, the means of obtaining fit education. In their own colonies the same principle was adopted, and in India every class was treated, as to its religious opinions, with the greatest respect, and it was on account of that spirit of tolerance that contentment existed. He would take the occasion to say, that if they treated India in the same manner as they new treated Ireland, they would not continue long in possession of those vast territories in that part of the world. In fast, the Mahomedans went further than even did the Eng lish people towards the Irish, for the Mahometlans were the very first who came forward to support the Roman Catholics in India, and on those grounds alone he would say that the Go vernment of this country ought to be ashamed to refuse this act of justice to the Irish Roman Catholics.—(Hear, hear.) While he was upon this subject he would beg leave to mention this fact, that in the year 1815 a certain Mahomedan chief granted a sum of twenty thousand rupees for the education of the Syrian Indians in the Christian faith.—(Hear, hear. 1 He had heard, with surprise and regret, the speech of the Hon. Member for Oxford; and he felt assured that no liberal man who had heard it but felt equal regret at hearing that lion. Member declare that he would never concur in the payment of money which should be devoted to the propagation of what he conceived to be error.—( Hear, hear.) That lion. Member ought to have reflected a little before he used those words ; for he was in some measure connected with India, and therefore he (Mr. Hume) was sorry to think that the Hon. Member had not learned something of the kindliness of feeling towards his fellow-man, which his father, in his lifetime, so usefully and extensively practised.---( [fear, hear.) But after what he (Mr. Hume) had stated in reference to India, he would say to this country, look at what a noble example the Pagan has set you, anti are you not ashamed of yourselves ?—(Cheers. ) He looked upon the position of Ireland in reference to this question to be similar, in some respects, to that of the Christians in India, and therefore at least as much consideration should be shown them, in proportion to their relative positions.—( Hear. ) Now let him suppose that Ireland, instead of having been con quered two hundred years ago, that event took place only last January, would any man in England propose, as the first mea sure towari's that country, that all their property should be taken from them, and the people left without the means of education ?—( Hear, hear.) They had not done so to Canada —in fact they had not treated any part of the world belonging to them in the same manner a; they had treated Ireland.— ( Hear, hear. ) When the returns that had been ordered should have been laid upon the table of the House, it would be found that England had been liberal in her grants of funds to every country dependent upon her, while to Ireland she had been quite the contrary.—( Hear, hear.) Again, he would contend for it that this was not a religious question, and that religion had nothing at all to do with it. Ile would say that whatever country England ruled, the people of that cotintry had a right to expect all the means necessary to do them justice and make them happy.—( Hear, hear.) It might be regretted that the Roman Catholics were so numerous; but that was not the question ; there they were, and as they contributed their share towards the support of the State, they should not be kept in a stt to of discontent and dissatisfaction.—( Hear, hear.) Now, if the House did not approve of this measure as a step towards removing their discontent, he would ask what other means did they purpose?—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. and Gallant Mem ber opposite had threatened a renewal of th ose un i ons of par ties in Ireland that had long distracted that country ; but he ( Mr. Hume) begged to assure the Gallant Officer that if only justice were done to Ireland, all such associations would be quite unnecessary.—( Cheers. ) He would contend for it that the English Government had owed a duty to the people of India which they had discharged, while they left their duty to Ire. land totally disregarded.—( Hear, hear. ) He would contend for it that much of the squabbling that existed in Ire land on the subject of religion was owing to the manner in which a large share of the public property had been disposed of. If that were not the cause of the general discontent, then the Government should look back, and see what it was, for it must have originated in a long continued system of degradation and insult, that no people could endure.—( Hear, hear.) He would say, then, that Ire land was an oppressed country. Justice h a d b een denied her, and her people had become disturbed because they were con vinced of that injustice.—( Hear, hear. ) He would ask, why not pursue the same course towards Ireland that had been adopted in England and Scotland? In England the majority of the people, being Protestant, held property for the mainte nance of their Church ; but let them take care that the day did not come when they would lose it.—(Hear.) Then, look at Scotland ; in that country the religio n o f t h e majority was supported out of property belonging to the Church, yet all this support came from the public after all.—( Hear, hear.) But in Ireland the property of the chu rc h was taken from her, and, then, when the Prime Ministermee some o m b e y e po f n or ot w r taoin of the r load of with ye ye a y o pa pro positioniti 0 o injustice a tl s i a aa t rri c iel o m u " e l P d dr.); l: f e sosri o lt ff nh e 'e r e hr d eem , wasoh val n: of f m also by epithets that did but very little credit indeed to those who used them —( Hear. ) On the grounds that he had stated, he w ou ld support t hi s mea sure, for lie looked upon it as one of public polic ;and as one that would give satWac`ion to the Irish people, and a better education to their clergy.—( Hear, hear.) There was one point to which he would have objected if it were proposed, and that was, taking the means out of the Consolidated Fund. He would yrefer that the fund should be supplied from the saving created by the abolition of pluralities and sinecures in the Established Church ; but as those funds, to the amount of 130,0001. had been otherwise applied, he would then suggest that they should be provided out of the Consolidated Fund until they could be saved from the other source.—( Hear. ) lie begged to say that he would most cordially support the motion of the Right Hon. Baronet.—(Cheers. ) Mr. NEWDEGATE did no t thi n k that the Hon. Member who had jut' Sa down h a d b een ver y convincing in his arguments, or very corn limentary t o th e R om an Catholics of Ireland, in planing them in comparison with the idolator3 of India. But he blamed the Roman Catholic priests of Ireland for much of the misery of the people of that faith. He did not censor in opinion w ith those who supported this measure upon the as sertion that, by increasing the facilities of education, and placing the student in an easier position, the people would be grateful. He saw by a report in the newspapers of a late meeting of the Roman Catholic Institute, that the Provincial of the Jesuits was present and addressed the meeting. They might recollect. that the Catholic Emancipation Act contained a : provision whi c h requ i re d a ll th e Roman Catholic regular c orgy to register themselves. lie bad ende,voured to ascer tain whether there was such a reaistry, but he b_lieved that none existed.—( Hear, hear.) He did not think much of the argument derived from the poverty of the people of Ireland, for he thought there was great truth hi the remark of the Hon. and Gallant Alemtwr for Weymouth, that when the people of Ireland s e nt 10,0001. to Lyons for the Propaganda, they could support a college of their own. The Roman Catholics of Eng land had no d:ffieulty in supporting places for the education of English priests. When be looked to the destination of this grant, when he saw that it was going for the support of the active pioneers of a faith in which he did not believe, for the maintenance of active disturbers of the public peace, it could not be wondered at that it had his decided opposition ; and he murt confess that he little expected such a measure would be brought forward by the present Government. For the various reasons he had stated he would vote against the measure. Mr. PA K ING TON said that be could not rgree in the conclusion to which his lion. Friend who had just sat down had come to, with iespect to this measure. lie was of opinion that Protestantism would be better able to defend its position when the present measure was carried. He was sorry that the Right Hon Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh took up a narrow party ground in arguing this measure. He thought that the Right lion. Gentleman was wroeg in saying that the present Governasent made the " No Popery" cry the means of their getting into office.—( Ironical cheering. ) It was per fectly true they raised a cry to defend the Protestant religion when they thought it was in danger ; and he was ready to take the same course again. The Right lion. Gentleman also said —and his lion. Friend the Member for Northamptonshire stated the same sentiment mare broadly—that the present mea sure lost mitch of its grace, if not of its utility, in being brought forward by the present. Government. Now, he thought of all persons Ilia Right lion. Friend, who had carried Catholic Emancipation, was the person who had the best right to pro pose such a measure as this. He thought the argument put forward by the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for the University of Dublin, and others—namely, that of the present measure being the forerunner of others—was a very feeble one. lie did not see why we should be in a worse position to defend others, by consenting to the present one. lie would not yield in his desire to uphold Protestantism to any one, and he voted for the present measure because he did not think the Protestant religion could be injured by it. He thought, with his Right Hon. Friend, that the worst course that could be adopted would be that of leaving Maynooth as it was. He considered the state of Maynooth was one of the greatest prac tical evils under which Ireland suffered. He voted for the measure on this ground, and because he looked upon it as one step in that wise conciliatory polies , towards Ireland, which every Government in this country ought now to carry out.— ( Cheers.) He believed that concession would be met by gra titude on the part of the Irish people. Entertaining these views, he should certainly give his support to the measure re commended by her Majesty's Government. Mr. P. M. sTEWART said he was anxious to say a few words in explanation of the vote he was about to give. After the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, delivered last night, it would be presumption in him to attempt to answer the speech which had been made in reply to the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edin burgh, by the Hon. Gentleman the Member for Druitwich. In 1841, at the general election, the weapon used by the Con servative, now the prevalent party in this country, was the cry of "No Popery." That weapon was used by that party when in Opposition with the greatest effect. In this assertion he would be borne out by the constituencies of the country. At that time there was a general cry in the country of " the Church is in danger," and the cry was repeated ad wauseain. Such was the extent to which that cry was carried, that he who was then the distinguished leader of the Whig party, gave utterance to the well-known expression--" that it was a heavy blow, and great discouragement" to the party then in power. He (Mr. Stewart) protested against the party opposite now throwing away the weapon they had formerly used or denying that they had used it. The lion. Member for Droitw ich had stated that if a measure were good in itself it mattered not who intro duced it. The lion. Member could not have heard the forcible manner in which this argument had been dealt with by the Right Hon. Member for Edinburgh. That Right lion. Gen tleman prefaced his remarks by saying that the country had an interest in this measure, and they also had a deep interest it, the character of public men. lie went on to say, then, that if this Bill were right in principle now, it must have been doubly right at an earlier period of the sufferings of that country to which it asplied. This was the argument used with respect to the policy of the party opposite now, and their policy some four years ago. lie (Mr. Stewart), differing from those with whom he had the honour usually to act, sincerely wished that this Bill might never reach the statute-book of these realms. But, if it were to pass, let them not be told that the Bill in coked no question of principle, and therefore they ought only to discuss points of detail. His construction—his humble con struction was, that no Bill had ever been introduced into that House involving more direct and important points of principle than the Bill which they were then discussing. They bad been told that since 1795 a sessional grant had re gularly been made to the College of May nootli. The Bill now before the House was intended to remove this annual grant out of the reach of Parliament—in the first place to treble the amount of the grant, and in the next place to give 30,0 0/. to the improvement of the College. Did not that in volve a question of principle? The country had so interpreted it, and in his humble opinion he believed they had judged rightly. He believed that they were, in making this grant, violating the protest which this nation had made against Popery. Those who had spoken in favour of this grant had all modified their opinions. First came the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Newark (Mr. Gladstone). Then came the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath—strong, pun gent, and full of argument in favour of the Bill, and against those who dared to differ from it. How did that Ho nourable and Learned Gentleman qualify his support of this measure? He said that if this had been the first proposal made of the kind, if they had not been in the habit of granting annually a sum of money to Maynooth, he would not have assented to this measure. That was the qualified support which came from such a quarter as the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath. Then came his Hon, Friend the Member for Lambeth, who said that unless the amount given by this Bill should be fixed, settled, and drawn from the source which his Hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, at a future stage of the Bill, intended to suggest, he could riot approve of the Bill. Then came the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ire land, who said that it was useless to meddle in this matter, for it was better to let well alone. The Right Hon. Gentleman then had the effrontery —he would pardon him for using such an expression—to say that there was no well in Ireland to let alone at that moment. Was there no " well" in lrel Ind in 1541, when the Government was given into the hands of the present Adminstra t i on ? I reland was never i n a more pros perous state than it was at t h e t i me w h en th e late Government left office. He beli eve d t h at th i s B ill , which was intended as a sop to the Catholi cs , wou ld act as an i n d ucem ent to them to make greater demands. Wh a t h a d Mr. O'Connell said in hi s admirable speech, w hi c h s h owed no f a ili ng of intellect, and no cooling of ar d our i n the cause o f Ireland?—( Hear, hear.) lie said, " I take this as the first fruits of fear, and lam sure it will not be the last. You may de.. pend upon it that the next thing will be to repeal itself from the eminent author of the Bill now before us. 'The Hon. and Learned Gentlarnan called this a boon to misbelieve, and he said that they would mihelieve agoin, fort they were now beginning to reap the fruits o f it. What ef fect could a measure of this kind have on Ireland, or the Irish people, when it was so interpreted by their Go vernment and eminent leader. The measure would evidently be merely productive of further &mantis from the people of Ireland, When he observed the fruits of agitation in Ireland, ho almost began to regret that they had not adopted the same . system in his own quiet country of Scotland. In that country they were looked upon as passive and as peaceable, and there. fore they were capriciously disposed of. As was stated by the lion. and Learned Gentleman, the Member for Bath, on the previous night, tso years ago the people of Scotland came forward with respect to a great national cause conneeted with the Scotch Church. They wished to present a petition, not for money, not for patronage, for they abhorred the l a tter and the y did not value the former. They came to the do or of that House with a petition, the prayer of which was simp l y this, thatintsiecular matters they might be held sub.ervient to law,theban but torn of civil courts and civil magistrates. Nothit only was th a t petition not allowed to be brought in , but it was s p urned fro m doinattini n a spiritual matters they should be freed fr om tho - their door. Was there justice in this ? He trusted that his Catholic Friends around him would nut think that he had said anything in the least degree hostile to them or their religion. He admitted that the world was largely indebted to the Roman Catholics. Every one must admirrith:e works and the charac ter of such men as Fenelon, Pascal, and the historian Lingard. But he was bound to say, that he would not lend a hand to w hi c h was calculated to risk the great principles of the anything reformation They t)ut heard e som would e tellab l e t hem speeches that m on delivered n o subjecton on which Constitution i e ht h the a acres onhf o eap f ri isa t rii l nc) i e e hoem c rne o e u itn i nh i t t r r eow y awir d t nnieippsoetnn. whichd tH e h d ee . m i sta ki n g the opinion of the people at large upon There was no tttpm,,hhasieerltftaocvihcnr(elutiurtlyelnya:r:urll ItorfYanis community (.2 0 L N said h e felt this subject. ever tt b li ailsitetlal multitudeu ' e be ( t ll' i sei ridicule:L:wilhoooaannfst:l:eia'°hltetlie:ritende:a';❑ 's s e u r r e e tht h i P c et h itliat only proposed to the House was fraught with evil, and could y be productive of very doubtful good to the country. He said, for the sake of the Although yet he believedin tis opinionthat the he majorityw as i in in Catholics of Ireland and the Protestants on this side the t fi i r n y r stt"ii.:acrteeall:rii.°i°tunah;:him, representative Channel, that he desired, _in his heart, that this Bill might but of the people at large —of this Pro never reach the statute-hook, , C f a o t r ho h l e ic felt .l ass d ur b ed, that should it become law, it would be eradicated from the statute-book on and as the a c ri on — v i f n o c r e t d h sakethe at t the p h ro a t , e , s b t ee a n gai e n x s - t completely exhausted--that his vote against it. the measure by giving erthgneui'grnent that could be urged, fur or against the H C ou th s o e lic w sh s e both Protestant over which en ii te te re d d e b i a li t : measure, had been so often repeated, that he might hesitate. in ri,ing to address the House, and might content himself by t(sleuunbr,jiienecgdt, the before h e teveryea giving a silent vote on this occasion, but he was anxious to re move from himself any misconstruction which might attach to his silent vote. He was anxious to address the House, in t rder to declare that he did not h give the measure a hesitating or Protestants andhts.a doubtful support, but that e p wars interested in its success, not only in its passage through ar lament, but for its success in Ireland, when it had obtained the sanction of the Legislature. So strongly was he c onvinced of th e necessity and justice of the me asure, that he only wished that, in the few observations which he would venture to address to the House, he could impress on those who did him the honour of listening to him for a short time, his conscientious conviction of the wisdom of the measure, which was so deeply fixed in his own mind. The Honourable Gentleman who last addressed the House appealed very strongly—especially in the concluding portion of his speech—to the religious feelings of the community. fie was ready to admit that the religious feelings of the community had been reused. He admitted that there was a great deal of opposition to the Bill; he was con vinced that no statesman could with propriety be rash enough to disregard such feelings ; but it was the duty of a statesman to carefully examine whether or not th ese re li g i ous feel i ngs were based on justice. The Hon. Gentleman who last sit dqwn said that if the Government had foreseen tha reception which this measure had experienced, they would have reconsidered their conduct. He (the Earl of Lincoln) imagined that the Hon. Gentleman meant to imply that the Government would have shunned that expression of religious feeling, and would not have dared to introduce the measure. He believed—in fact, he knew—that his Right Hon. Friend, not only when he brought forward the question a few nights ago, but when he gave notice of his intention last year, was well aware of the ri,k which he was running, and the manner in which it was likely to be received ; and he thought this of itself sufficiently answered the taunt raised against the Government by several Hon. Members, more especially by the Right Hon. Gentle man the Member for Edinburgh—the taunt of inconsistency. The Hon. Gentleman who had last spoken had, he thought, answered that taunt when he said that there had been no call fur this measure. If there had been no call, and if these feel ings had been antieilated, he should like to know what but the imperious sense of duty could have induced the Government to bring it forward ?—( Hear. ) The question of contract in this matter had been repeatedly argued and re-argued, during three nights' debate. A great nu m b e r o f H on . Gentlemen, includ ing the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, denied that any contract existed, or even, he believed, an im plied contract. lie (the Earl of Lincoln) was ready to rest his vote upon the merits of the measure itself; but he did not at all agree with those who asserted that there was no contract, or that a contract had ever existed. He could not agree with those who asserted that there was no contract, any more than with those who declared that a new religious al ineiple was in volved in the present measure. In discussing the question of contract, he felt, as he hail already stated, that there were touch higher grounds for defending the measure ; but he felt con vinced in his own mind, seeing that two Acts of the Irish Par liament had created and sanctioned the measure—( Hear) — seeing that the acts of tin. Irish Legislature had been sanc tioned by the Imperial Parliament of Great Britain, which had devised regulations respecting the College, appointing trustees; and he might remark by the way that those trustees had been appointed when the Legislature was Protestants; and at a time when none but Protestants could be trustees. In the year 1809, and in the year 1813, this vote had been revised for the purpose of increasing it, and for the purpose of giving a better mode of education and an increased ',umber of stu dents. He could not witness all these facts, without feeling that they had been committed to the principle, and that a contract had existed, not indeed a contract mitten in a formal manner, and having that legal force which would bind an in dividual, but such a contract as alone could exist between the Government and the governed. He had stated just now his disbelief that any new religious principle was involved in the measure. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh had sneered at the allegation that no religious principle was involved in the measure. What he (the Earl of Lincoln) asserted was, that no religious principle was involved. There was the same religious principle in the measure of 1795. The question was then settled and disposed of. It was now only a question of arithmetical calculation, with which religious prin ciples had nothing to do. In 1795 the measure had been pro posed that had been suggested by Burke and approved by Pitt. It had been la id before the 'prelates of England for their sanction and approval, passed through both Houses of Parliament—a Parliament exclusively Pro• testant—sanctioned and rem iced the force of law in the reign of George 111., a monarch whose memory Englishmen reve renced, but more especially extolled by those who maintained the principle of Protestant ascendancy. It', then, a measure was sanctioned and continued under such cirenmstances, for such a length of time, could they then, in 1845, in a reformed Parliament, with a House of Commons to which Roman Catho• lies had been admitted, and who were commingled with the legislation in all matters connected with the empire —could they, he said, pass a resolution for the purpose of discontinuing the grant altogether ? If they admitted and believed, as the Right Honourable Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh had admitted, they could not, with justice, discontinue the vote altogether, any objection fell to the ground against the proposal to increase it. Whilst upon this part of the ques tion he would quote the words of Mr. Grattan on a similar occasion. In 1 Xll Mr. Grattan said, in answer to the Chan cellor of the Exchequer of that day, that he was not aware of the strength of the Right Hon. Gentleman's argument. That although we adopted the original grant we were not obliged to allow it. "If (said Mr. Grattan) the principle be even al lowed, the limitation of the grant seemed only fixed by the cir cumstances of the time—to act otherwise would be nominally to adopt, but ultimately to defeat the principle." This grant had been continued for a number of years. He would not say that fifty years' usage made right wrong. He was willing to admit the force of the maxim, that no length of tune could jus tify evil—that what was wrong in morals could not be right in politics. But then he was compelled to ask, was any such maxim involved in the measure before the House ? Was there any pro posal involving an infringement of religious principles ? Was the endowment of the institution different in a religious point of view from making an annual vote? He did not subscribe to any such opinions. If Hon. Gentlemen really believed that a religious principle was involved, he called upon them to act up to that belief. They could not stop here ; they could not be content with the rejection of the measure before the House. He be lieved that some among his Hon. Friends that had spoken on the question were willing to go further—were willing to repeal the Act of Parliament altogether ; but he did not think they would vindicate their consistency even by this step. They must go further. They must resist any contribution to the Dissenters of Ireland—the application of the Regions Doown. They must withdraw from all the colonies the spiritual assist ance of the priests of the Roman Catholic faith. His Hon. Friend (the Member for Newcastle) said, on moving the amendment, that he was ready to make an exception in favour of the colonies, in consequence of treaties that bound them to those payments. Where then was the principle ? Let him remind his Hon. Friend that, if he considered this to be a religious principle, he could not but resist it. No ques tion of expediency could step in where religions principle stood upon the threshold. Therefore, his Hon. Friend and those who thought with him should be prepared to act upon this principle, and to treat those treaties as mere waste paper. No consideration of temporal advantage to the colonies should withhold them from acting on such principles. He looked upon this question as unconnected with any principle of religion. He saw in Ireland a priesthood placed in 'he midst of a people who were poor and ignorant. The priesthood must possess influence and popularity in precise proportion to their qualities and merits. He saw a priesthood placed in Ireland under these circumstances, and could he then hesitate seeing the immensa moral influence they possessed to adopt means to educate the people. Could he hesitate to give in struction to those by whom alone the people of Ireland were willing to receive instruction ? He confessed he did not despair of seeing the hearts of the priesthood interested in the common cause of the empire. lie did not despair of seeing the Roman Catholic priesthood labouring with them in the common field, not of religion, but of the regeneration and improvement of the country. if such a consummation as this was to be attained, he would appeal to the Right Honourable Gentleman (the Member for Oxford) whether he would no make a sacrifice, short of that in which he though religion vas involved? But he believed that to such a consum. mation this must be the first step. Without a measure of this kind, nothing they could do would be met in a grateful spirit. He believed that unless they passed a measure placing, in a better position than they at present stood, the priesthood of Ireland, the best efforts of the Government would be thwarted, and nothing they could do would have the desired effect. Se veral Hon. Gentlemen who had addressed the House, more particularly the Members fur Harwich and Warwickshire, had laid stress on what they conceived to be the imperfect insti tution of Maynooth up to the present time.—( Hear.) Those Hon. Gentleman had said that the experiment had been tried for fifty Sears—that it had failed, and that therefore it was the incumbent duty of Parliament to withdraw instead of increase the grant. But the Hon. Gentlemen who had come to such a conclusion had not inquired into the causes of the failure. He was not now about to go into any further detail, regarding the present condition of the institution, but he believed the assertion of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Perth, who asserted that Maynooth was in a condition such as any man could wi h to see it, was incorrect. He would not allude to the system of religion or education practised there, but he firmly believed that the grant at present allowed by Parliament, from its limited na ture, caused the whole system pursued there to be illiberal, and was not likely to impress on the minds of the students any grateful feelings towards the State. Before they pro nounced Maynooth to be a failure they ought to increase the comforts of the inmates. It was said that no system of edu cation could succeed among the humbler classes, unless their physical wants were first consulted. The same argument ap plied to Maynooth. He hoped the House would not attempt to interfere with the system of instruction pursued at Maynooth, nor attempt to raise up spiritual w ith temporal education there. Such was the opinion of Mr. Burke. —( The Noble Lord then quoted the opinion of Mr. Burke on this subject, which has already been given in this debate.) Such a course (continued the Noble Lord), would only have the effect of making the laity bigoted, without making the clergy more liberal. The Hon. Member for Armagh had complained of the time at which this measure had been brought forward, and the Member for Harwich took the same line of conduct. He had stated that this was not the proper time fur the intro duction of this measure, but he (the Earl of Lincoln) believed that it was precisely the time, because this was the moment when the grant ought to be made, and the manner of it he con oeived to be of equal importance with the time at which it was made. The Hon. Member for Dungarvon (Mr. Sheil) in a speech the other night, which was characterised with more than his usual eloquence, had reminded them that Mr. O'Connell in the whole of his speeches had asserted, that all the concessions that had been made had been extorted from their fears. But, he would ask, could it now be asserted that this concession had been extorted from their fears ? and he conceived that this was the precise moment when this mea sure should be introduced. Agitation had been suppressed, the supremacy of the law had been vindicated, and the clamour for repeal had been hushed in the murmur of general industry and commercial prosperity. They had neither conflicts nor wars, none even of those little wars which Hon. Gentlemen opposite had left as a legacy to their successors—there were not even rumours of wars . y lf this measure were adopted. he believed that it would tend to promote the peace of Ireland. The House should remember that the question was not now in the position in which it stood before it was introduced. They had offered this chalice of goodwill to the people of Ire land, and he trusted that they would not frustrate those hopes. For himself he felt that his vote would be attended with a very painful responsibility, and it was not without much serious con sideration that he had come to the decision to vote for this grant to Maynooth, and that he had felt it necessary to express his sentiments upon it. During the twelve years which he bad had the honour of holding a seat in that. House he had never until now had the misfortune to differ with a majority of his constituents, but on this subject he felt it his duty—his most painful duty—to follow the impulse of his conscience and the dictates of his rea son.—( Hear, hear.) There were other reasons, too, which would make this vote a most painful one—( Loud and con tinued cheering)--which would make this vote a most painful one, but which it would be neither right or becoming in him to explain to that House.—( Cheers. ) But he trusted that, however severe the trial, be still was determined to do justice to his country, and persevere in the course which principle and conviction alike pointed out to him ; and while he regretted the pressure to which many of his friends were subjected, he would yet, with all humility, urge upon them to act upon the impressions which they had adopted, for, notwithstanding the opinions that their constituents might at pi eient express, yet they might feel assured that they would act upon their future convictions, and, allowing the claims upon their respect accord to them lasting esteem.—(Cheers,) Lord WORSLEY said, that he had presented petitions, from not only a large number of the body of the Wesleyans, but also from many of the Dissenting Congregations from that part of the county of Lincoln with which he was connected, and he should not now have obtruded himself on the House on this occasion, but that he thought it would be both more honest and honourable to do so, rather than give a silent vote or absent himself from the House. He had al,o the misfor tune to differ from a great portion of his constituent. on this question. He had come to that House, it was true, up pledged on this or any other subject—but . his sentiments but were . n ot unknown, for not only had he declared them, 1535, when his Noble Friend, the Member for the City of London, moved for a Select Committee to consider thPSt4 an t: of ecclesiastical affairs in Ire land, with a view to e ppropriate the surplus fund for the education of the p eo ple at large, to all bodies of Christians, and he should therefore, with a view to follow out the liberal policy of his Noble Friend towards Ireland, vote for the second reading. But whilst thus declaring his intention of giving his support to that extent to the Bill, lie must at the same time say that, in conformity r with the views that he had then expressed, he shmild s occur also ri t e propositiop of the llon. Mernbcyfo-:Shef&e tii ldOlr_ . ; 'ti and oprosc4 the appropriation of the ;6,000. from I C Varkl; onso lidated Fund. Mr. M. MILNES said that he hp tltis as the first ptep of 4 great Ineasuti.•-4 lool s ed o t i it its a stop onto s-- carrying out the effects of a rlace4 9A the Nvo-- —.Lion. which' As et the House last session, endowment of the Roman Catholic priesthood in Ireland.— ( Hear, hear.) The question was not now whether they should add a few more comforts, or elevste the pesition of the Romish clergy, for he believed that on that point nei her his Hon. Friend the Member for Oxford ( Sir R. Inglis), nor any other Member of that House, would entertain the slightest objection on that account to give a little more furniture to the rooms of the students, of a decent front to the building, or throw an air of cheerfulness over those gloomy apartments, by giving them some of the refinements of England. Ile did not think that. there was any fear that the addition of such comforts, or the introduction of snore wealth to the Roman Catholic establishments of the country would tend to advance the religion of Ireland, for if they did the Irish Protestant Church would not have remained in the same stationary posi tion which it had held fur the last forty years. He believed that Ten his Hon. Friend the Member for Kent (Mr. Plumptre) if he saw a Roman Catholic priest lying wounded by the wayside, would stoop down to help him up ; and yet if he did that he would beau, poring Popery —( Great laughter and he never had been more shocked in the whole course of his life than when he heard the Hon. Baronet the Member for Oxford express a feeling that he would rather see the Roman Catholic priesthood of Irelsnd suffering all their present deficiency, if they were 1 k sly to become such nun as Bossuet or Dr. Wiseman. Something had been said about the contract. He believed that the terms of the contract had been fulfilled at the clone of the war, for the ob ject for which this grant was made had been to secure domes tic education for the Roman Catholic priesthood of Ireland, when England was fearful of injury from their foreign rela tions. But he believed that Mr. Pitt, who made that con tract, would look upon its spirit in a very different light ; and he thought that if the spirit of Mr. Pitt were hovering over them at that moment, he would view their proceedings with singular complacency. If there was one thing that could en hance the value of this gift more than another, it was the frank and honourable manner with which the Honourable Baronet had proposed it. Great reflection had been thrown upon the administration of the present Government in Ireland, but he believed that nothing was more unwise—nothing more unjust. That Government had gone the right way to conciliate the people of Ireland—( Hear, hear)—by the only way in which the Irish people would or could accept conciliation—and that was, by placing the priesthood in a position of respect ability and honour ; and if the Right Hon. Baronet wished to bring peace to that country, he would follow the good ex ample of his predecessors to the utmost.—(" Hear, hear," and cheers.) Yet in doing this he must so act as to save himself from the reproach from which his prede cessors had suffered, for he could effect all this without touching upon the privileges or the rights of the Protestant establish ments in that country.—( Laughter. ) He thought it neces sary to say this, because the object of the Whigs had been the destruction of that establishment. —( Cries of " No, no," and " Hear, hear.") Well, he thought it necessary to state this, because he conceived that the motives of Hon. Members on both sides of the House should be fully developed on this subject. If the question had been brought forward by the opposite side of the House he would have given it his fullest support.— (Hear, hear.) He believed that in all questions of polities ex pediency was the best rule.—(" Hear, hear," and laughter.) He thought that the question of principle was used as the most important in cases which we opposed, and expediency was adopted in all cases of which we approved. He was g l a d t h at this proposition had been brought forward at this time, and by the men by whom it was introduced.—(A laugh. ) The cir cumstances of Ireland required it. lie was glad that his Right Hon. Friend, with the Duke of Wellington, who resisted Ca tholic Emancipation until that resistance brought on the threat of a civil war, now interposed their power and their wisdom, foregoing their previous determinations, and showing the world that it was not any spirit of misanthropy which actuated them.—( Cheers ) They sacrificed all previous views for the purposes of reconciling the interests of the nation.— (Cheers. ) They did not go on as the Government of a neighbouring coun try was going on, faintly endeavouring to work out good mea sures against a mistaken and factious opposition.—(Cheers.) They proposed measures in which all that wished for the good of the country could agree. He hoped the House would assist the Government, and regard all measures, not with regard to the views of any faction, but with regard to the general good of the country.—(" Hear, hear," and laughter.) He believed that all the opponents of the Bill were well-meaning men in the closet.—( Great laughter.) They were, some of them, men whom he esteemed in private hie, but to whom he would not entrust the destinies of his country.—( Cheers and laughter.) He hoped this measure would pass, and that there would be no occasion to revert to that:severity towards Ireland which, at all times, could only be regarded as an amiable misanthropy.— ( Cheers and laughter.) lie considered his Hon. Friend near him an amiable misanthrope.—(Great laughter. ) The grievances inflicted upon Ireland by this country was great. It was necessary to compensate them—(Cheers)—and if the loss of his own seat were the consequence of his vote, he would (to use the words of Hon. Members opposite) adopt the present occasion as the most auspicious for the sacrifice. Mr. Sergeant MURPHY had no doubt it was an exceed ingly entertaining thing for any person who stood in a position of political antagonism in that House, to indulge in matters of crimination and recrimination on one side and on the other—to contrast the conduct of persons on the present occasion with that of past years, but he felt, as a Roman Catholic Member for Ireland, that he was not in a situation to adopt such a course. It was for him to leave it to others who had before fought in the arena of uncertain politics to adopt such a course. He stood upon neutral ground to consider as a Roman Catholic what the proposition of her Majesty's Government was towards Ireland, and not in any spirit of crimination or recrimination which had been so freely indulged in by Hon. Gentlemen en bath sides of the House. He conscientiously believed the measure before them would have the advantage of paving the way to the permanent peace of both countries, and if it were sanctioned by the House in a cordial and liberal spirit, it would lead to the existence of a lasting unanimity between the two nations. It was in that spirit that he now came before the House as a Roman Catholic Member, to sup port the Government ; but if it should so happen that in the course of his address he overstepped in sonic measure that spirit in which he wished to view the question, lie hoped the House would not look upon it in the light of obloquy, but attribute it to the natural fervour of an Irishman. having said thus much, he would proceed very shortly, be fore coming to the principle of the proposition, to review certain speeches which had been made against the measure by Hon. Gentlemen who sat on the other side of the House. The first speech, and almost the first arguments against the Bill he had an opportunity of hearing were those of the Hon. Member for Newcastle. That speech breached two proposi tions. One was that a degree of ignorance existed in the College of Maynooth, which was not only lamentable, but ac tually ridiculous; and yet the principal recommendation of the Hon. Member was to withhold any grant of public money, which was calculated to remove the evils of which he com plained. The Honourable Member next declared that there was something in the exclusive character of this institution which was truly repugnant to the feelings. New, if the lion. Member for Newcastle had made that speech on Thursday evening, when the Hon. Member for Weymouth brought for" ward his motion for throwing open the Universities of this country to the members of all religious denominations, it would have been exceedingly applicable to the occasion. —(Cheers.) In Ireland the feeling had long been favourable to the throwing open of Trinity College to all classes, but the zealous efforts of the people had never yetite- , . cured that boors. They refused to throw open Tri • lege to the Roman Catholics, and the people, ther Parliament to make some provision for the at Maynooth. And this brought him to the principle' of the measure. He found that the proposition of the Go vernment was to give a certain sem towards the endow ment of a Roman Catholic College in Ireland. He had been told by some lion. Members who opposed it, that there was no compact for making this provision; and, for his part, he never did consider that any existed. He merely looked to this grant as a matter recurring from year to year; but he would ask any person, whether there was no implied compact in the first instance? He would ask him whether there was not a tone and temper in the state of society in this country, at the time the grant was first made, as to lead to the belief that it was in tended to be permanent and fixed? Some lion. Members did not object to the grant while it was kept at 9,0001. a year ; but when Government proposed to raise it to 30,000/., thay opposed it beause the grant was encouraging error. Now he confessed this was the first time he had ever heard that there was such a thing as a sliding scale in morality. He could not understand how that could be base at 30,000/., which was not so at 9,000/. The latter sum was evidently not sufficient to maintain the College; but the Hon. Member for Perth was of a different opinion. The Hon. Member for Perth thought the grant conferred every comfort on the in mates of Maynooth ; and in support of this opinion the Hon. Member quoted a passage from a work written by a Mr. James Grant, but his lion. Friend the Member for Dungarvon appeared to give no weight to that opinion, because it was given by a Scotchman, who might not be supposed to be the best judge of the comforts or the use of trousers.—( Laughter.) Now he (Mr. Sergeant Murphy) should very much like to have the notions of Mr. Grant on the subject of dress. He held in his hand a book which that gentleman had devoted to a description of that House, and certainly his delineations of articles of dress, and other matters, were well calculated to convince Hon. Members what amount of judgment this respectable Scotch traveller was likely to possess upon the merits and corn forts of this semi nary. He would commence with the description of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, whose per son and dress this gentleman had described in the most graphic manner. He was quite sure any one who heard the description would say at once, "there is the man." Mr. Grant said, " The Right Hon Baronet's usual dress is a green surtout"—( Roars of laughter, in which the Right Hon. Baronet heartily joined)—" light waistcoat, and dark trousers. lie generally displays a watch-chain, with a bunch of gold seals, of large dimensions."—(Roars of laughter.) N ow l e t the House, continued the Hon. Member, listen to what fol. lowed. He was sure that the Right lion. Gentleman would feel that it was a calumny upon him, "He can scarcely be called a dandy—(Roars of laughter)—and yet he sacrifices a good deal to the Graces—(Renewed laughter)—and for my part I hardly know any public man who dresses in better taste." That was the description of the Right Hon, Baronet. He now came to another description of a somewhat different character, the description of the Gallant Colonel the Member for Lincoln.—( Shouts of laughter.) lie saw the Gallant Colonel in his place on the opposite benches, and as he ap peared, in the spirit of good humour, to appreciate the faithful nessd of the other portrait, he (Mr. Sergeant Murphy) would make no bones about reading the description given _ e of the Gallant Colonel himself the voracious writen sa r y; " His countenance is altogether unique. — ( Roars o f laughter, It stands out, in broad relief, from the countenances ei 4i I the other Members.—( Continued laughter.) Tgq theoe e: the senators rejoice in tufts, a few more in whiskers,__ t but the whis kers of the Gallant Membes for Lincoln l e ft i n the distan ce and out of all proportion, the whiskers of l other Hon. I‘ , leokbers . . You hardly know whether he has a mouth ee sot—(Laughter. from all parts of the House, which the Gallant Colon e l heartily joined)—it so completely ,, buried amidst a crop of hair, until he begins to speak. But let them snarls the " plums of the pudding. "He would do and suaer a great deal for his party an d principles, but rathe r th an submit to be shaved, he would see Toryism and party scattered to th e winds."—(Shouts of laughter.) He would go a little further, and come to this side of the Hease, and he would turn to the description of his Hon. Frierid, the Member for Isainieth.--, (Laughter, ) Ile speaks frequently--( Laughter) —a d hter)--d --an nerally on unimportant subj ects-- ( Continue laughter)—and there is not one great pri nc i p l e with which he is identified, He is a little man— Shouts of laug a dark cemexien. bier) —round-faced, an d Qf pl ' — (Laughter.) He should no t k eep the House much longer, but would just quote Anot h er o f the graphic po r t ra i ts from the book before him. He found it stated of the Right Hon. Moralies fin- Perth, " that he was of extremely gsassofai proportions, and of retiring habits." Now, he was sure that no Hon Member in thht Howse, after hearing these descriptions read, cou'd doubt the com petency of the atithclrit/ cAtiOtod' by the Right ..,..emvor AOC Perth, in all matters Comfort, dress, kW contenience.—( Hear, hear, and laughier.) There had been two objections, which be had found generally urged to the House in opposition to this Bill. It was stated in the first place that they boasted of supporting their own clergy, and it was asked why they did not also instruct them themselves upon the voluntary principle? Hi 3 answer was, that they were willing to pay them themselves if the establish meet in Ireland were entirely changed ; but, as proved by the report of Psaor-law Constnissioners, they had new in addi tion tQ their caber burdens to maintain a T" amounting to 9,400 ; 00n,.....( He a r .';:per pop :Le non, Member eelation, , ..ear.) Per were asked by POrtod elmca— • stle how it was that they sup oie voluntary rinciple, and yet accepted this grant ..,wards 1 from Government? vie would tell the Hon. Member. rcum. In the he had first place, he would r ec eive it because owing to other ei for the stances, he found a meritorious class in a state of misery and destitution whom this endowment would partially relieve. He would receive it, because he knew the difficulty and the labour, and the expense of receiving a proper degree of instruction in the seminaries of Ireland. He was also willing to receive it for a political reason. The House was well aware that it was not fur the mere paltry consideration of 30,000!, that they ac cepted it, but the grant to them had a peculiar interest, for no matter what party held the reins of Government, they hailed this as a concession that England had at last met Ireland in something like a kindred spirit, by recognising the claims of her Catholic clergy to protection. It was in this spirit thatihe accepted the grant. 'they accepted it not as a great boon to the mere Catholic party, but as a greater measure of justice.— ( Cheers. ) It was in that spirit Ireland received the grant, and he prayed Hon. Members in that House who might be dis posed to oppose the second reading of the measure, to con sider well the consequenc e s of dashing the cup from their lips. He would ask them if they were prepared to eradicate the friendly feeling at present existing in the minds of the Irish towards England? An Hon. Member had quoted words which had been attributed to Mr. O'Con nell, and said to be delivered by him in Conciliation Hall. He was reported to have stated—" Conciliation Hall, I thank you—Agitation, I am obliged to vou—Maynocoh ought to I pray for you." He would parody those words. If a Minister like the Right Hon. Baronet at length were to think the time had arrived that conciliation should be used towards Ireland— if lie introduced a measure like this, and if that measure were rejected, no matter under what fo-m their opposition might have arisen, whether it assumed the form of evangelical or voluntary—he would say, in that case, that Mr. O'Connell should get uo, and instead of saying, " Repeal—Agitation, 1 thank you," he would say, " British House of Commons, Re. peal ought to pray for you," for he (Mr. Sergeant Murphy) was sure that nothing could give a greater impetus to re l eal than the rejection of this grant to the College of Maynooth. lie would rather, for his part, that the sum given to iiraynooth should be given to the support of all creeds alike. But was the sum which would he saved out of the taxes of the country by the judicious distribution of this grant not worthy of their consideration ? Would the House let the opinion expressed by a clergyman of the English Church go forth to the people of Ireland as the sentiments of the English nation ? Those opinions would be supposed to be corre c t if the House rej ec t e d thi s measure. He found the clergyman he referred to using the following phrases : —He said that ho would draw upon the historical annals of the country to show the evils which had resulted from the connexion of the Go vernment with Popery. He referred to the reigns of Eliza beth and her successor, and then he came to Charles the First. He (the clergyman) stated had made a Popish alliance, and bad brought up up his children in the Popish faith ; and then he added that the lightning of heaven had blighted the splen dour of the English Crown, and that Charles the First had perished on the scaffold. And then followed the second Charles. He designated him a weak and sensual monarch, but riot so deeply criminal as to draw down the vengeance of heaven on his head. Why ? Because he was not openly declared for Popery. Before that time was Oliver Cromwell, a guilty man, ea doubt—a man of blood, but who had redeemed his guilt by supporting the Pro testant cause. Then he came nearer their own times, for he came to the time of William IV. Within twelve months after the passing of the Catholic Emancipation Act extraordinary changes occurred in this country. Soon after the Monarch's signature had been attached to that Bill he was hurried front the world. Such was the language of an English clergyman at a public meeting. He had no hesitation in giving that clergyman's name—it was Dr. Croly. Now he would ask what were the deductions to be drawn from these historical statements ? He meant that if they had a leaning to Popery th e y s h ou ld ta k e example by those who bad gone before them. He asked them if they rejected this measure, if they thought it would contri bute to the peace and good feeling which it was so essential Ireland should entertain towards this country 9 Ho entreated Hon. Members not to reject a measure which would strengthen the good feeling which ought to exist between the two countries. Sir J. HANMER (who was scarcely audible in the gallery) was understood to say—The different views that were taken by the majority of Hon. Members in that House, were such as to render it difficult for one to satisfy his mind as to the point of view in which that question was to be taken ; according to his appreciation of the particular merits of the case, he would vote on the occasion. The question deeply agitated this coun try, independently of the spirit that was evinced by the many petitions which crowded the table of the House ; and whether the people of England were right or wrong in their opinion, he felt himself bound to say, that if they had triennial Par liaments, or if they had much shorter Parliaments than they now had, they would have a very larger majority of the popu lation against the measure. Reference was made to the time of Mr. Pitt, when this grant was thought to be expedient. He would ask them if the present time was at ell compa rable with that ? Was the time come to institute a connexion between the Roman Catholic Church and the State ?—( Hear, hear.) What influence would be gained by such a relation—of what good would it be produc tive ? He thought that the only influence whieh they could have over the leaders of the Church of Rome—the lions of ate fold of Judah, as they called themselves—was to be deiivei from that civil power, from their justice and equity, and . not from an eccle s i as ti ca l relationship with them. Why enter into a connexion with them if they were not to exercise some ec clesiastical ju r i s di ct i on over them ? Supposing they associated this College with the State, that it was found necessary to bring that relationship closer, and that it was more strongly pressed upon them, he would as k, as a pract i cal question, how they were to pay 3,000 priests of the Church of Ireland ? He melt. tioned that number, for he had been told that there were 3,00(1 Roman Catholic priests in Ireland, who were employed in the avocations of ministers of their religion. Well, then, he would ask, if such were the fact, how were those priests main tained? Ile ventured to say it would be found very difficult to give an answer; though it would be admitted that they were never known to be in want. He was one of th , se who was ready to admit that the Right Hon. Baronet the First Minister of the Crown had met the position of Ireland in a true spirit last year, by proposing that most useful measure, the Charitable Bequests Acts ; but he ( Sir J. Hamner) did now protest against the Government going any further in making such concessions, or establishing what might be called col lateral ecclesiastical establishments, because he conceived that the Government should confine itself to ecclesiastical matters belonging to the State. He was one of those who believed to the wise and sound policy of Sir R. Peel, and he had no doubt but that his measure of last session, to which he (Sir J. Hamner) had alluded, would have a good effect for a long series of years. The Hon. Baronet concluded by saying he disagreed in the policy of the present measure, and shoeld therefore oppose it. Mr. ROSS next rose to address the House, but the noise and confusion created by a crowd of Members leaving the House at the moment, prevented the possibility.ofrlikkeing heard with anything' like distinetpess.in'the gallery. He was understood to say that twoaeetiesthat he had heard had made a deep impression op.ihiniihd, for he had heard them with keen attention. One of them was from the Right lion. Gen-. tleman the Secretary for Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Before lie alluded to them further, he would uy that :he looked upon this measure in the light of se redeMption of a pledge that had long been made to Ireland, 'and as a part of a grea t system t h at would : eventually open up :the vast industrial and commercial resources of that country. As to the speech of the Hon. Member for Perth, he should say that he had hoped to hear that Honourable /tlember speak in favour of carrying out that justice which he appeared to prize so much. But he (Mr Ross) could not help saying that the whole of the opposition to this measure was not founded upon either reason or justice. In calling the attention of the House to the arguments used in the speeches he had mentioned, he would notice but few of them, and then he would ask the House in what position were the Irish Roman Catholic clergy before they were dependant on the English Government ?—( Hear.) The religious objections urged in the course of this debate ap. geared to him to have no weight at all. Seeing that there was so much difference between the Presbyterians and the members of the Church of England, and so much difference between the members of the Church of England and the Roman Catholics. and looking at the existence of the regium donum to the Pres. byterians, he could not see why they could refuse this 'grant.. He did not give much weight to the argument derived from, the amount of money in this case ; for if, by this measure, they conferred_pea ce on I re l an d , the number of regiments which they coulebdraw away from it would soon make up for it. He hoped, tNik t when this m easure an d others like ill were passed, 'e differences whi c h so l ong existed be tween different el - asses` of Irishmen would be destroyed, and they would put tioir shoulders togeth er an d strugg l e that their country shorßire placed on a perfect equality as ith England, and, till that equality was attained, he, for one, would not rest satisfied. He trusted the Right Hon. Baronet would pere severe in the course he had entered upon, till he had made Ire. land united and prosperous, and the strength and right arm oil England.--( Hear, hear. ) Mr. M. GORE and Mr. Hamilton rose together, the latter for the purpose of moving the adj ournment of the debate, but th e House having called for Mr. Gore he proceeded to say that if he considered the present measure as likely to ire. pair the principle of the Reformation he would oppose it as strongly as he should n ow g i ve i t a warm and cord ial support,—( Hear, hear.) He had always voted f or th e grant to slaynooth, and in so doing he thought he had voted for the principle of the grant, and that there was, therefore, we new principle involved in the present measure.—( Hear,hear.> He believed that if th e y h a d ae t e d on th e prin ciple on which the Romans acted towards the Gauls, and the Normans towards the d t e h s e i ee p d os t i n ti pawtaes in the) oy. llSaraweil.and of f 3 • E fo n i r r g e t i h i a a n e n d d l , a w b s t 35 o u u s i f t o h r ny 3 oe s ta O rbs y eh ea ai r dn s our ancestors had refused t o allow them to participate in such advantages. H e hoped thus was bet the commencement of a more liberal and comprehensive n d also h e concluded to that par bv e system of legislation towards that unfortunate country. H e gave every credit to her Maje!sty's Government w h o h ad of beetnhea4upnatseidtinbny whichth the b s e n s p t po m rt o e t d is t •e h s e , in a ; n(i a saying that he would give the measure his most cordial sup., port, and by expressing a hope that it would b e b rought to a triumphant conclusion.—( Loud cheers. ) Mr. ALEXANDER HAMILTON moved the.a,djoun inn t of the debate. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and tbq rfouse adjourned. SUDDEN PEAT 1 - 1 of the MARQUIS O whe T n H g P ;ea E t OF DOWNSHIRE, Stll.--It is only T D pe l op T le O f ß ail that the rest of mankind will reflect on their own situations ; this has been exemplified in many instances. We are satisfied that all sudden deaths proceed from a neglected state of body, and that such dreadful catastrophes would be of very ram occurrence if the world generally would reflect on this important point, viz., that all pains or disease* whatever proceed from some impurity in the blood, %villa* impurity can only be eradicated by proper vegetable' purgation. It is useless to look to any other remedy. livery one, when he feels any pain or sickness, should immediately become his own doctor, by at once taking an efficient purgative, without going here and there foil clifil.‘rent and contradictory medical opinions —this is tbe great principle which Ilygeists wish to inculcate, dad they care not for the opposition of interested individnalt who oppose it. Ilygeists have had ample practical ex-. perience of the truth of it, and all the learning in the world cannot make it otherwise. It is the grand seem; of health and disease—of life and death. If the truth could be ascertained we have no doubt that the Noble Marquis of l)ownshire had neglected his body, and hull not done that which ho ought to have done—he, his hundreds of other great men, trusted to false science learning,* opposed to simple nature and truth, and 'oil therefore fallen a victim. We are, Sir, your obe;lient servants. MORRISON AND CO., For and on behalf of the body of liygeistsi British College of Health, New-road, London, April 16, 1845. * Accomplishments, such as Greek and Latin, &c., berg nothing to do with the cause or cuT:',3 of diseases. MARRIED.-011 Tues d ay, April 8, at Wlilton•onei the-Hill, Liverpool, by the Rev. Wilbraham Bootle Outs% Surto. gate, incumbent of High Leigh, Cheshire, William Richardiole Roebuck, EN , merchant, eldest ion of Samuel Roebuck, Esq., Sale Bank, Cheshire, to Eliza, third daughter of the late Willials simpsen, Esq., St. Helcies4quare, York. .„.....1 Cool' me on e, wag dip• ill wss 9e5 re• union. Ise re* Sele c affee' Id, on a r WI lati°q ,14 0- r, orN if St the