The Sun. — London, England, 1803-05-25 00:00:00

••• RS . R r gr.rAlite 11l 13!'('t ‘l ... ` ' 1 t ' ,_ tr i 1..' . • 110 ' . '''s #rs " 4 / * . 4., lir . . A. If - 4t " - - .h , . Sk : .-' 4 ,,, , , , - . 1 / 4 , ......„ , ..'''f.:,;l 4 '':4 - ''' • ....-- ...., 'lt. ~.?. •-• . cr -,,, . i ... ;,..$),, • ....,... - 1„ a Av:, l .‘ •\.."!` %mid" - -' = :- ;7. - -_-:-._ - , , • ,: 'i l •'• - • Ikl" . '' . ' v''' ..'''-' .0, THE :~ 1 NUMBER 3 . 333• ,1114PER[AL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. TUESDAY, MAY 2.4. Coullsxt. were finally heard relative to the Scotch Appeal, The Carron Company, v. Ogilvie; after which the Lord cIiANCELLOR, in reference to a pruposal for an adjustment lathe way ofarbitration•fmm one of the parties, proposed, that the further consideration of the case be deferred until Wednesday fortnight; which was ordered accordingly. The Marquis of SALISBURY acquainted the House that Hit IKajesty would receive their Lordships' Address at two 'o'clock tomorrow. Messrs. L SCELLILS, ASHLEY, GRAHAM, and other Gen. tlenien, brought up a number of private bills from the Corn rows, which were severally react a first time. The Bills upon the Table were forwarded in their respec tive stages. In a Committee on the Militia Families' Bill, some this. cession took. place on certain provisions therein, between Lords ItADNOR, Rocia,..AUCKLAND, and HosAar, and, a division took place relative ton proposed modification of one of the clauses, on the suggestion of the first-mentioned Peer. The numbers, as we could learn were, fur the Clause, in it original shape, ii—againstt it t. After a short conversation, chiefly . of an. explanatory na ture, between the Earl of DA &NI. alt, and l ord- Au cic t. Art p, a variety of official papers [admilar, in soma degree, to those ,laid before the Commons] relative to the affkirof Louisiana, the evacuation of the Cape" ASA other conquests, and the seizure and detention'Of vesse s , kc. watt. agree- 1 01Y ..te the ' Wish of the former and on the motion of the latter Peer, orderal to be laid before the House. Some private business was then disposed of, awl an ad mminent took place. We regret that a misstatement of the observa. Lions of Lord GWYDIR ) who spoke last in the Debate of Monday night, in the House-of Peers, should have inadvertently appeared in our Paper of yesterday. The space which the important De. bate in the House of Commons last night unavoid ably occupies, prevents our giving a detailed ex. po*ion of his Lordship's arguments in the present instance; but, we have authority for saying, that so Tar from having spoken in approbation of the Amend. Them, he'earnestly deprecatedany thing which roili . laced against that appearance of unanimity which was SP essential in the present crisis, to exhibit to the !yeti(' at large, and to Europe in particular. That couiequence of the events so will known to their ordships, he considered the Cotlntry as placed in a state of War, and consequently the treaty of Amiens was no longer in existence. He admitted, that though the Couotry , was thus circumstanced, it Was obvious that Propositions might still be enter. tained ; but the line of conduit to be adopted with respect to these would entitely depend upon the na. lure of what was proposed. HOUSE OF COMMONS. TUESDAY, MAY 24.. TH I . Committee on the County Bridge 13111 was postponed till to-morrow. The Ships Passengers' Bill passed through a Committee. ....Report to. morrow. Pile Lord ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND moved for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the mode of A ppol to the High Court of Admiralty:in Scotland.—Leave given. Several Papers were presented from the Office of Chief Secretary of Ireland, which were ordered to lie on the Table, and to be printed. The Militia Bill was read a second time, and committed fur Thursday. Mr. N. VANSITTART, after observing upon the importance of the Trading Vessels of this Country sailing with convoy during the present period of hostilities, in order to prevent as much as possible the carrying into effeCt a system, of preda. tory- warfare, and stating, that it appeared by an. thentic documents, that the captures made by the Enemy, after the passing,of the Convoy Al, were considerably less than before, moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the better proteetion -of the Trade of this Kingdom.—Leave given. Lord HAWKESBURY presented' certain addi. tion a l Papers relating to the late Negotiation ; 'upon which he observed, that they had not come into his possession until since Lord Whitworth had quitted Town; and that the only material' fact which the Dispatches repeated was, that the Empe. roF of Russia had no objection to guarantee Malta, but • all the information His Majesty's Ministers bad respetting that subjea was direCtly contra. diftory. The Papers were then ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. GRENVILLE said, that extraCis had been , . r i stead n the preceding day by the Noble Lord (Lord tiAwttessurty) from certain Papers, which he thought it important the House should be in pos. SCSSiOII of. He therefore moved for copies of all . , such representations as had been made on the part of His Majesty's Government to the French Re : üblic, respecting the existence and continuance of French Troops in the Batavian Republic, together 1 with the answer of the French Government, or of the French Ambassador in Holland. i Lord 11AWKESBURY said, he had no objec. i ti.On to the production of these Papers, but he could Only repeat, that the representations made upon the subjed alluded to would be found to be in fia Icontained in the instructions included in the Papers upon the Table. The Motion was then agreed to, with the addi. tion of th e representat i on made to the Batavia' Government, with the answers thereto. WAR WITH FRANCE. Mr. GRENVILLE, after giving notice" of his , -.1,. intention io.morrow to move for certain Papers re. peding the proposition of Russia, relative to the , lir ' p rovisi o ns of the tenth Article of the Treaty of Amiens, said, that as he was then upon his legs, i,I he sh ou ld move the Order o f t h e D ay f or . res uming the Debate on the Address on His Majesty's Most I Gracious Message. The Order of the Day was then read, and the Debate ordered to be resumed, when the SPEAKER havi ng rea d t h e Add ress or i g i na ll y propose d, }actg. i lug the House to support His : -Majesty in the pro, secution of the War ; and also the Amendment af. . , terwardt proposed ) the tired of which was to ex. press the satisfafuion of the Muse at His Majesty's affording every facility for the restoration of Peace; Mr.GRENFILLE again rose: when, he said, he came to the House on the preceding day, he did not think there could be much to say upon the subject, conceiving that the ground would be so narrowed, that no range would be left wide enough for any thing like - an enlarged discussion. Many motives had concurred to induce him to wish that the Debate might be 'thus limited, as by this mode another very important question would be rendered more tangible, and more fit for subsequent discus sion. He should, however, do injustice to the ques. don if ; he confined such a wish to the mere conve nience of Debate, since he was actuated in this instance much more by a sense of public duty.— When a call like the preient, so superior to any other, was made upon the CoUntry,'he thought that a suf f icient motive for confining themselves stridly to the great and pressing duty which was then be.: fore them. His Majesty had told the House. that . the aggression* and-insults offered to this Ctitintry ;by'Tratice, hid forced His ,Majesty to commence Hostilities ,against that Power ; if any man could , bring himlilf to believe that there, was not a Just ground for War, then' he would take the side he had described. Those an the contrary, who thought with him, that it was their, first duty to remove from the question every point which might prevent that unanimity which was so desirable to enable His Majesty to prosecute the Contest with that vigour and energy which the occasion required, would .put out of their consideration any thing cept the important . .duty •which they had to dis. charge. After complaining so often of the want of information,' he ought to be the first to congratulate the House on the full informatiOn which they were now in possession of, but the duty he had spoken of, was so far transccndant, that he should cal cider himself as blameable, there. being sufficient information to enable them to discuss what were the causes of the War, if he embarrassed the question with the consideration of any other points. The first questiOn for consideration was, whether this Coon. try had a right to go to War with France ? and the second, whether, having a just cause for. War, there was such a want of expediency in pursuing it, that notwithstanding the justice of the cause v it would not be politic to carry it on ? Ever since the Treaty of Amiens, there had been one continued system, on the part of France, to vilify and insult the British Government and People, a deliberate system of ambition and aggrandizement on the part of the French Republic ; and when he considered whether there were just grounds of War, his difficulty consisted rather in the abundance from which he - was to chuse. If he took the first att, that of sending persons here with the appear. ance of a Commercial character, in the cha ratter of peace, and claiming the rights of hospi. talky anti protedion, whilst their real views had for their object the ascertainment of the means of destroying this Country, he thought it was so un precedented and unparalleled an insult and injury, that it furnished of itself a sufficient cause for War; it was so gross a violation of public faith, that it was certainly a sufficient ground for hostilities. He would not go through the whole of the grounds for War, it was unnecessary ; lie would not treat upon the annexation of Piedmont, of which country we were the dired guarantees, nor upon the subject o f Switzerland. These was amply sufficient grounds for \Var without going through them Al. But al though he would not dwell upon the subjeds of the Indemnities in the German Empire, the annexation of Piedmont, the invasion of Switzerland, or of the Batavia) Republic; yet all these were such suffi ► cient proofs of the ambition of the French Repub. tic, as nut less than at other periods to excite a dis. position on the part of this Country to,resist the ambition and aggrandizement of France. It had been doubted by some, how far some of these were just grounds for War ; it had been saitl, that they were not, because at the period of signing the Treaty of Amiens, Fiends Troops were in Hof. land, Piedmont. was really annexed to France, and Switzerland might be considered to be so : could any man doubt at that period, it had been asked, that Switzerland and Holland must become sub. jest to the power of France, whenever the latter chose to make an effort for that purpose ? The great argument used in support of the Treaty of Atniens, was the tone and temper in which it was made, from which, if any thing was 'to be inferred, it was that a disposition was beginning.ao arise in France, to ad upon the principles adopted by re. gular Governments, and a hope to find in that this. position reasonable grounds for believing that ranee would observe the Treaties she had made : nosy, when there was a general system of ambition and aggrandizement on the part of France, so'; was said it was no subject, of complaint : be it but should this Country not be prepated to check that ambition ? To say that the influence of France was. 40 great in Holland and Switzerland, that therefore it.ought nut to be resisted, was so strange an argument, that he did not think it necessary to pursue it any farther. All these ads were not only altogether, but each of them a sufficient cause for War, and such as in other times 'had been tided upon vigorously and success. fully. Here tie wished to recur to what re_ lated to Egypt, in which there was a diced breach of the Treaty of Amiens. By' that Treaty the French Republic was solemnly bound to 'guarantee the integrity of the Turkish Dominions, which became a great objea, to us, nor only in itself, but because of the great necessity which existed for it, for the security of our . own possessions. In that view he conceived that we demanded security from France against, any attempt in that quarter. Egypt was evacuated by our Troops, iind the evacuation WEDNESDAY,, MAY 25, 1803. made a sacrifice to Peace, whilst we demanded the I guarantee as a security for our Eastern possessions. Let it be seen how far France was sincere. If any man doubted the insincerity of that Power, alter reading the Report of Sebastiani; it would be extremely difficult to prove it. , Yet the Re. port ,was said to be commercial : vain and idle pretext, on which the purpo4e of it was attempted to be done away : was it possible to conceive that it could be a commercial mission ? If any man , doubted, however, upon the subjed, he desired to refer him to higher authority, to Bonaparte himself, who had distindly described it as a military mis sion, and to Andreoasy, the French Ambassador, Who had not attempted to conceal the purpose of the mission, under the semblance of commerce, but who distindly designated it as a military mission. Thus, then, the Report of Sebastiani was confirmed in all its military charafter. But was that all ? Look at the supplementary part ,of the Report, view Sebastiani travelling in the Republic of the sevena Islands ; that RepubliC was however niit confined to .Sebastiani's Report, another Supple. mentary account amongst the Papers on the Table, informed them that the First Consul had granted his protedion la the Catholic Church . of 'the Seven Islands, and that when the Mem bers of that Communion prayed to God, they must • pray for the First Consul. Thus stood the case with resped to Egypt. If the Report of Sebastiani had merely consisted of an intercepted Letter, it might have been laid, that it, was not a . sufficient aa of hostility on the part of France, to. wards this Country, though he should have con tended that it was ; but when, in addition to the Report, i: was adopted by the First Consul, and by , the French Ambassador here, could any reasonable man, he asked, read that and doubt that there had been in the mind of, Bonaparte, an hostile view with respell to Egypt, a disposition to at direlly contrary to his own Guarantee of the Integrity of the Turkish Empire ? This was even riot all; but, when, in the Declaration Of His Majesty, it was stated that the French Go. vernment had suggested the idea of a partition of the Turkish Empire, he must suppose that it re lated to a regular proposal made by France to a great Northern Power, for such a partitioo. With respell to this point, no documents were offered, but if Ministers had, not referred to it, they would have done less, than their duty, and to have re. ferred to it mire distinctly,, would have been more than was celled for. Before he quitted this subjea,• he could not help adverting to an expression that had been used, that Ifonapatte had a desire to pos. Bess himself of Egypt. If it was meant to be said that there was an abstract wish on the part of the Great Consul possessing half the world„ secretly, si lently, and piously to add Egypt to his domi. niona, he could not conceive chat such a siniple, abstract wish could be a cause fur War. But pot ting together facts, would any man say that it svas a lair Interpretation of those fads, to say merely that Bonaparte had a desire to possess himself of Egypt ? That • desire was manifested by acts' so manifestly in breach of the Treaty which he had s i g ned, that we were justified in saying, that it was a hostile breach of faith. Seeps had been taken by the First Consul which clearly indicated the means by which his designs were to be executed. From, the moment that any hostile at was com mitted by 'France, we were justified. in using every means for our own security, What were the best means by ,which the First . Consul could execute his projects upon Egypt ? They were those which he thought the most necessary to the accomplishment of his desire; they depend. ed upon Malta, and if we had evacuated Nlalta, we should Italie been justified, after the Report of Sebastiani, in endeavouring to retake it. Would any man say, that if it was just to retake it, it was not also just to retain It when it was already in our possession? He could not see the least difference be.. tween our retaining Malta, if France committed a breach of faith, and our right of possessing ourselves of it again after a breach of the Treaty of Amiens, and having previously given it up. In this view of the subjea, be .was not one of those who would go into a minute disCussion respeaing the zoth Article of the Treaty of Amiens. He would grant, that if the stipulations of the Treaty had been fulfilled, and we had then refused to deliver up Malta, that a breach of chat Treaty might have been fairly al. hedged against us ; but it appeared to him that no case had ever been made out by France which gave her a right to demand the evacuation of,Malta by us. He really thought that there never was a period of War in which•so many and such invincible grounds of War, on the part of tlri3 Country, were so clear. ly and distinalv made out, as in the moment when he was aldressing the House. Before he sat down he wished to say a word or two with reaped to the question of expediency. It might be said that am ply sufficient grounds of War might exist, and yet considelations of expediency might render it doubt ful whether Parliament should recommnd the pro. seen tion o f, t h e Wilt ; but were there or not any such grounds of expediency at the present moment ? If they were to say that such a War at the present mo ment would 'not bell a dangerous experiment, and that it would not press heavily, in point of expence, upon evieeir.) ~cive ma,in3 and it) disguisingthee Country, ry, they would be deceivirig tin he they to cons id er he larnetntiettrtuhtil:. R t their voice what had voiceni)n this occasion would only be a choice of great evil. Before; however, they agreed to a change for War, they were to consider What they would lose. WAS it Peace that they would iose ? Would'anyman say, that it was a change from Peace to War I It was, On t Truce e e contrary, toaalate a of change 1 a state of unequal equal War. ( `They. must lock Langer 'courageously in the Lice, anti hope with con. FP R ICE SIXPENCE. fidence for a glotiotes result. Did they sacrifice by such a change, that whiCh was Valuable, or even tolerable ? Without entering into the consideration of the conduit anis Majesty's Ministers, he . ainta aSk, whether if the wisest Men in the Curt ry had been at the head of affairs, if it Were possible:tlett they would have suffered the last two months of pne. tratted Negotiation, during which we experienced not a Peace but a Truce, in which we disarmed whilst the Enemy armed ; in which, we were called upon to give up our Conquest, whilst the Ehemy teas ;ir. suing a system of Aggrandizement, and completing their Military Preparatines, to be afterward, Car ried into efreet against this Country ? Was it to be said, that we were to wait till they had completed all their arratigemente—and were wet° be taught to believe, that we were to wait patiently : the evert of the attack, and nor to take those - means whidi we were called upon by God and Man to take foe our own security ? It might be lard, that even at the moment of e the.atreeee discussion s we had gain.: eel an advantage of gra( since"iiie &eat and mighty Republic of France: Ii thought fit to abandon a great acquisitnm, namely, - that Louisiana. It might he risked, was not that a fresh indication of a pecific spirit ? but he could not conceive that any one would be so childish as to ask such a question. What was the cause of ire the War ? However paradoxical it might seen), he considered that cession as a fresh indication of a hostile mind on the part of France.- It was ev.i. dent, in his opinion, that it was the object of France,: in this cession, to do away one enemy more, and to endeavonr to prevent an alliance be_ tween the United States and this Country: It had been said that we were without Allies : he did not see any occasion for treating our former Continental Alliances so lightly as they. had been treated..:-. But_however we might he without Allies, to those Countries with whom we might wish to ally our. selves, it would not be unimportant to spew our readiness to repel a clanger which was' common to all, to sleety our disposition courageously to meet the, difficulties which presented themselves, 'and bravely to overcome them. He would now say a few words with respect to the Amendment : it ap. neared to him diet there was no duty more incum bent upon them, when representing the spirit and sense of the Country, upon the present occasion, than that they should speak with an unanimous voice. Thete was. no sacrifice which he would not make, consistent with conscience and honour, to obtain that . unanimity . . If then he saw in the Amendment no material difference, must he not complain, that without any essential difference, it should have the effed of weakening that unani. mity ? Though there was not one word in that Amendment that he would not . willingly sub. scribe to, yet he could not but lament that ' it would have the effeet of preVenting . Parliament from speaking with an unanimous voice, The Country was placed in a veep aidoous situation, but he was confident that f the spirit of Englishmen were amply sufficient to encounter successfully the perils which surrounded them, and that there would he found means, and mind, and spirit to meet the contest in which we were engaged. If the Coun. try. was true to itse:f, and Parliament was true to the Country, there need be no fear for the issue of that contest. Mr. WHIM PE AD sail, the Right Hon. Gen. tleman had called foe unanimity in the discussion of this subjeCl, and lie (Mr. Wit ITB niko) also called for unanimity. The Kiglit Hon. Gentleman had said, that there was nothing he would nut sacrifice for the sake of utenAmity, except honour and tone science. He put it to the Right lion. Gentleman under the gallery (Mr. NTT), and to the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just spoken, or to the Hon. Gentleman who sat upon the same bench with that Right lion. Gentleman, whether they could with a sate conscience vote it direct approbation of the conduct of His Majesty'; Ministers, to which the present Address wonid pledge them He called upon them to . say, whether His Majesty's Mini» stets hal uniformly manifested a desire for the maintenance of Peace Whether those Ministers had contluaed themselves well, and whether they had not committed the Honour of the Country The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mi. Gait N I. ) had distinaly admitted, that Ministers had corn- mitted the Honour of the Country, , and if the Right Honourable Gentleman could not approve of them, he could not approve of that para graph of the .Addiess, which went to the approval of their condufk. Let those, therefore, who call ed f o r unanimity, vote for the Amendment of his Honourable Friend (Mr. Gatv) which went the full length of pledging Coeir lives anti fortunes in the support of His Majesty ,in the contest in which we were engaged, without pledging themselves to the approval of the 'cambia of His Majesty's Mini., stern. He trusted the House would indulge hi , n when he previously confessed that it was impos:Aille for him to take that narrow view of the quesiieet which 'was proposed by the Right lion. Gentleimo. He thought it absolutely necessary to comment upon those ,steps which Ministers had taken during the Negotiation, since it was imposSible 4:: discuss the steps ultimately taken by those Ministers,whhour in quiring into the previous Negotiation. in doing this, hate ver might have been his feelings with tespett to any Party with which he was conneeted, he aCIA perfettly free from all Party bias. He had hailed the accession of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ad. dington) and his Colleagues to power, as the only chance of saving the Country. He ackrowledged the brilliancy of the Speech made by a Ri g ht Gentleman (Mr. PITT) on the prt!cedingvtening, and he so mach the wore. regretted the part that, Right Hon. Gentleman had taken, for as - it ha been /aid that one person in France bad abiotb::ti