The Sun. — London, England, 1836-02-24 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY. FEBRUARY 24, M 6 -- they obt,aired a Favourable opinion from Sergeant Lens, Sir Wil liam H arose Mr. Baron Gurney, and Mr. Adolphus. Untloub - edly; szeeeding to the case submitted to those Learned Gentlemen, the Ceange Institution was not an illegal society in 1822. A . 50- •ciety, howeve r , m a y, accord i ng to its printed rules, be strictly legal, yet, in praet:ce, depart from those rules, and be an - gal eaciety—( Hear, hear, hear)—and this 1 heheve to have been the, ease of the Orange Institution in 1822 ; this, however, is of little consequence. The House must bear in mind this fact, 'that in 1832 the rules of the society were materially altered from those which were submitted to Sergeant Lens, and were assi milatsd to those of the Orange Societies in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Now, it is in consequence of those alterations, it is in co nse queue° of the ex i s ti ng ru l es, that 4 contend that this societyis an illegal one. Thou g h th e pr i nted rules of a soc i ety ere the worst. possible evidence of it s l ega li ty, yet, as a d m i ss i ons, they arc the best evidence of its illegality.—',llear, hear.) I am convinced that if Hon. Gentlemen will ixamine the rules- of the Orange institution. ' and will likewise l'eok at the words of the statute, they will tic sitate in affire'eug that this society is, to all intents, illegal to:n bination eeid confederacy.—( Hear, hear.) nese are statutes againee illegal societies. The 37 Geo. Ti. c. 123; 39 Geo. ;9; and the 57 Gco. 111., c. n. Now, Sir, in my opinion, the Orange institution is an illegal society, in various rummers, under these statutes. I consider that it would be easy to prove that the Orangemen in reality assent to a test or declaration not required or authorised by law, and if this be the case, the society would be ille under the 57 Gco. 111., c. 19. I consider that, to all intents and purposes, the religious ceremony called the ritual is an oath not required or authorised by law, and if this be the case, the society would again be illegal under th e 57 Geo. III. ; c. 19.—(H ear bear.) I consider that the Orangemen are bound, in consequence of being Orangemen, to obey the commands of their grand resestee, who is a leader or commander, not having authority by law for such purpose, and if this be the case, the society is illegal under the 37 Geo. 111., c. 12 3.—(Hear, le ear, hear.) I do no intend to insist upon these positions, beeause I should be unwilling to appear to strain the meaning of a criminal statute. I shall con tent myself with refer'ing to thet portion of 39 George 111., c• 79, which the Committee has rated, and under which the illegality of this society seems, to inc, meet manifest ; the 39 Geo. 111., c. 79, enacts, that " every society which shall be eomposed of different divisions or branches= ee in different parts acting in any manner se parately or disti rea from each other, of of which any part shall have any separate r- distinct president, secretary,- treasurer, delegate, or other of ee..r elected or appointed by or for such part, or to act as officer n• fe such part," shall b e d eeme d an unlawful confederation. T' 1 . 'ee Orange Institution is " composed of different divisions or brreiches." This fact is acknowledged in the address of the Orange eaen to the Carlton Club ; after enumerating the advantages which the Conservatives would derive from becoming Orangemen, they say, "in order that the constituency may be able to know the patriot from the demagogue—the honest man from the pre tender—where can they so well apply for information and ad. vice as to the Grand adge of the Institution—(Loudlaughter)— which being in active correspondence with all , its branches, possesses the facility of knowing the principles of every man in the country." in order to prove my position more distinctly, I shall now prove that each Orange Lodge (or as it is sometimes called, warrant,) is a separate and distinct branch of the Orange institution, seperate and distinct from each other lodge. In sroof of this position I would refer to the appendix, page 141. 7 h ere the House will fi n d a li st o f 265 warrants or lodges distinguished from each other by different numbers stated to assemble at different places and at different thnes.—(Hear.) In the evidence I find that at Glasgow a lodge is called " The Gordon Lodge ;" at Berne ley there is a lodge called " The Royal Cumberland Lodge," In the itinerant warrant granted by the Duke of Cumberland, powers are delegated to Colonel Fairmin " to open new lodges and to set them in full operation." The facts are in themselves sufficient to create a strong presureSetion that each lodge is a seperate and distinct branch of the 'orange Society. 1 shall now explain in what manner, according to the rules of the institu tion, each lodge is dietinee from each other lodge. By rule 7, every member of Ile institution, from the rank of Grand Commissioner dov e nwards, must belong to some specified lodge ; and no person is of right entitled to a seat in the Grand Lodge, nor drill be proposed for office unless the Lodge to which he belongs 'se. mentioned in his certificate. This rule proves that each Les' ge has its own members separate and distinct from the membesrs of each other Lodge.—( Hear, hear.) Now w i t h regard to'etee duties of the se mem b ers, i f the House would refer to rules , 41, and 7, it would find that each Lodge has not only its sepa rate and distinct members, but it has likewise its annual receipts, separate and distinct from those of other Lodges ; it has its own funds separate and distinct from the funds of other Lodges; it has its own officers, its own bye-laws, separate and distinct from those of other Lodges, and members of other Lodges have no right to in. terfere either in the distribution of the funds, the elections of the officers, or in the making of the bye-laws. For instance, if I were an Orangeman—which, thank God, lam not—l must belong to soree particular Lodge, say to the Grand Cumberland Lodge at Barnsley ; I should be obliged to attend the meet ings of that Lodge at least once a year ; I should be obliged to Ipay an annual subscription; I should have a right of voting with regard to the distribution of the funds, the elections of the officers, and the bye-la ws o f th e l o d ge. If I were to be in London I might attend the meetings of the metropolitan lodge on the pro duction of my certificate ; but I should not be bound to pay a sub • scription to the metropolitan lodge ; I should not be obliged to at tend the meetings of the metropolitan lodge, and if I were to attend the meetings I should mere') be admitted as a visiter ; I should hare no right to bear a part in any of its proceedings ; I should be unable to vote on any subject, either on the distribution of the funds, the election of the officers, or on the bye-laws. Now, it is the right of voting in these meetings which, according to Sergeant Lens, is the material part of acting separately and distinctly ; and this right is reserved in each lodge to certain individuals exclusively. Thus, as an Orangeman, I should be obliged to belong to some branch of it ; and, consequently, the Orange instituting is ti society coin posed of separate and distinct divisions and branches, and of parts acting separately and distinctly from seep's o th er , an d i s con sequently a n un l aw f u l confederacy. gut the lodge is not the only branch of the society ; each lessige is attached to some district, which is likewise a division o' the soci e ty. Thi s fact is easily proved. In appendix, page 14. s there is a li s t o f di str i ct warrants : each district has it s deputy-rand master, who is obliged to report to the grand lodge, and who, according to rule 3, represents in the grand lodge the master s of warrants. Each district has its half yearly meetings for 'the arrangement of its affairs. In rule 8, the object of these district meetings is stated, They assemble for the purpose of investigating matters of a local, nature, and in order to receive returns from the masters of each lodge, which are afterwards transmitted to the grand lodge. These meetings are composed of certain specific individuals who have duties to perform separate and distinct frotnthose of the memlsers of other districts. The right of voting in these meetings is cerdined exclusively to certain individuals. As each the ar e is gume a nts whien I emp l oye d i n order to prove that lodg separeee branch of the society, are the same as those which I shoele. now have to employ, the order to prove that the district is a branch of the society, I will not repeat that the so ciety is illegal, on account of the manner in which its officers are appointed or elected, according to the words of 39 Geo. 111. c. 79, which I heve already read, every society " of which any part shall have tiny sepa-ate or distinct president, secretary, treasurer, dele gate, or other officer elected or appointed by or for such part, or to act as an officer for such part." Now, Sir, there are a host of officers appointed for particular parts of the society, and to act as officers for such parts ; and there are other officers, elected by parts of the society. App., page 131. In rule 3, I find " the deputy-grand masters of counties, cities, and bo roughs sending Members to Parliament, appointed by the Impe rial Grand Lodge ;" " The deputy-grand chaplains of counties, cities, boroughs. and districts appointed in like manner ;" " The deputy grand masters of districts appointed by the Imperial Grand Lodge on the recommendation of the brethren ;" and if the H ouse will refer to the annua l reports of the Grand Lodge, they will find the names of those why are thus appointed. The offiters of each Lodge are elected. In rule 3it is stated—" The . masters of war rants are annual.' s y elected by their respective members subject to the approbateen of the I m p er i a l G rand Lodge. " The election must take place 'in the first week in May. The fee on the first election is 55., or, re-election, 2s. 6d.—ltule 41. The chaplains of each lodge are antually elected. The committee-men are likewise elected. I need not trespass upon the patience of the House by provin g th at t h ese rules are adhered to—the evidence given nefore the Committee would easily demonstrate this to any person who will take the trouble of reading that evidence._ (Hear.) Thus, Sir, to all intents and purposes, the Orange institution in Great Britain is an illegal combination and confede racy—(Hear)—Sir, I would not on any account attempt to ea tend the meaning of a criminal: statute, or endeavour to punish as offenders persons who merely have violated the strict letter of the law without acting with the criminal intention which the law meant to punish. ilut Sir, when I read the preamble of the sta tute, I find its intention is to prohibit societies, whose acts are simi lar to those of: The Orangemen. The statute says, " Whereas many such sotieties are composed of different divisions, branches, or parts, which communicate with each other by secretaries, dele gates or otherwise, and 'by means thereof maintain an influence over large bodies of men, and delude many ignorant and unwary persons into the commission of acts highly criminal." Is this not a just description of the Orange institution ?—Hear, hear.) My lion. Friend has shown in what manner this society maintains an influence over large bodies of men, in what manner it hss de luled, at Airdrie and elsewhere, many ignorant and unwary men into the commission of acts highly criminal.—( Hear.) These statutes, to which I nave so often referred, are not obsolete— men arc still suffering punishment under these enactmen.s; they hare been put in force against the poor, and the ignorant -1 now demand that they shall equally be put in force against the rich and the educated. '1 he House must remember the case of the Dorchester labourers —those unfortunate men com bined for the purpose of raising their wages,. which is not an illegal act. They formed a secret association, which is not neces . sarily illegal. They were not initiated with religious ceremonies, not more Profane than those of the Orangemen. Utifortur:, te l y their chief was not a prince of the Illood—unfortunatel . - i , in their ignorance, s they were not contented with mere e erem e n i es addition they uttered certain words, which in h. court of justice were considezed to be an oath, and for thee, ignorance they were transported. The chiefs of the Oran , omen arc noble, rich, and well. educated men. Their leader t, the first male subject in the realm, net, howehcr, thank Goa,, as the Hon. Member for Dreg heda proposed to term him- the nearest t o th e t h rone.—( Hear.) Mr. RANDAL I'Li r elKET called the Hon. Baronet to order, and desired him to explain the assertion he had thus made. Sir WILLIAM. MOLESWORTH— The Hon. Member most certainly essed the term in question, an 1 I will tell him and the House schese. In the R pert, page 114, there is e document con taining these words :—•• The Orange institution is the only so ciety in Great Britain, which already - includes individuals of every rank nd grade, from the nearest to the Throne to the poorest pea sant," &c. This document is indorsed, " Materials from the lion. Randal Plunk:A, for an Address to the Carlton Club." I hope th s Hon. Member's memory is refreshed.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) these men have combined to preserve abuses, they have bound themselves 'together by religious cere monies as solemn as any oath. For, aecording to the ritual, when the candidate is initiated he must have the sacred Scriptures in his hands, with the book of the rules and regulations placed thereon; ne is commanded to study, to obey, the latter; he is re ceived as a member of the society under the assurance of his sennsors that he will carry equally in his heart the laws of the in stitution and those of the Deity ; kneeling, he is decorated with the Orange scarf, and he is told in the words of Scripture, shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for a fronlet between thine eyes; for by strength of hand the Lord brought us forth out f rom EgYPt• Th ou s h alt, therefore, keep his ordinance i n his season year to }ear.'—Es te e es , see, 16-18.—(Hear.) These se cret signs and pass-words are made known to him ; and in conclu sion th e c h aplain, in joy at the coming of the new associate, with impious mockery saith, " Glory b e t o G o d i n th e hi g he s t; (Hon earth peace, good will towards men."—St. Lake ii. 14. ear, hear.) Thus the h o li est words of Scripture are pro-' Egged, in order to enforce and sanctify obedience to the com mands, whatever they may be, of his Royal Highness _Prince Ernest Augustus Duke o f Cumberland._( Hear, hear.) For his powers are illimitable, discretionary, and "absolute." To him the " honour and welfare of this society are implicitly confided." What that honour must be, in what that welfare must consist, all men who have read these reports, and heard the speech of the Hon. Member, must now be full and well aware.—( Hear, hear.) Thus these most religious men have not hesitated to desecrate the re . employingl ittlat: ugmenanosf of p e e a v c a e di a n n g d t g h o e ca l l aw ll n t o ora h r a d v s e men, the b sc y rup sacred ceremonies of their creed for the vile purposes of party e to use fel. They have enrolled Bishops, and other cassocked priests, whom they have commanded to attend their meetings, (Lessee and decorated in the insignia of their holy orders ; thus to give the semblance of a religious sanction to these their unholy mum meries, to these their impious mockeries.-(hear, hear, hear. ) The object of these ceremonies evidently is to impress a conviction upon the initiated that-they are bound with all the force and Solent- nity of an oath. The Orangeman, when initiated, is surrounded by all the pomps of religion-the n ame o f t h e Deity i s invoked he is commanded to b e obedient W the laws of the institution, and to keep secret their signs and r,ai words-nlie kteels and vows, and by every conceivable sir:, a'eleite'siltdges his assent to those com mands. Yen, I , .ty I . l Le 6rtligemen, as they never in so many word, promi.A 'w ottc•F---fss they rvver say that they will . t cep L ,,,... :;,, the 'nglis e:sni pass words-th 4 ;Ann t i :i at their tests are not tests ' Vilely oaths are not omns-__ha their e ngagements sir , VA erigage ments. Shell lii the casuistry by which the then, Who go boast their reskvett for the law, attempt to evade the kW. In some respects they bay have succeeded in evading that portion of thelaw ender which the Dorchester labourers were punished I But in ptli'er respects, as I have shown, they have utterly failed.- , --(Heir, heal.) The ques tion now is, whether the poor alone are to be punished for their il legal societies, whilst the rich are to be pan-tat...l. nniaWfully to combine for evil, affil traitorously to erelllse oppre'tsiOn. The means of crushing this institation hi Ci'reat I.lintain are nttsy ii.iii simple i I an). perfectly mattVlinsed that eVidenen tthlit be produced in a coe.:i of jtt tint, to prove every itie tt my assertions if the Lbw Octeers of the Crown will ettploy the powers vested CA tlt'l'.l oy theta 'statutes. They can, if they think jiropinn ~ t. . vi criminal pro ceedings aoaihst any pe r son whO hi l / 4 4 i ki.nnded against these sta tutes 's let them promise whits th protect the witnesses, and I am tOnvinceil many would he found amongst the members of this institution. nhh, nosy aware of its noxious effects, would willingly atone to their country by giving such evidence as would infallibly convict the chiefs of this institution of a misdemeationr- for which they may be transported.-(Hear, and laughte,.) Offences under two of these statutes arc misdemeanors. Peers, therefore, would not be tried by the House of Lords, but by a common jury. Let, therefore, the law officers of the Crown present to the grand jury of Middlesex bills of indictment against the Imperial Grand Master the Duke of • Cumbelland---4 Hear ).- - --astainst the Grand Master o England, Lord Kenyon -against the ai , irm kiteretary, Lord Chan dos-and to these worthies let thine not ferget to add the Right Reverend Father in God, Thomas, Lord Bishop Of Salisbury,- (Hear, hear, hear, and loud laaghter.) Thus, Sir, these statutes, which were the crevititms of the sworn enemies of the people, may now, as it wore, by a retribution of Divine Providence, become the means bf crushing this institution-of destroying this imperium en imperio, and of laying prostrate its chief. At his fate none hat his followers will mourn. A feW years' residence on the shores of the Southern Ocean-(A laugh)-would teach hini and other titled criminals that the laws of their country are not to be violated with impunity, and that equal justice it how to be ad-- ministered to the high and to the low.-(Loud cheers,) Thus this institution may be crusher! in Great Britain. lam not acquainted with the Irish Statutes, and, consequently, I can not affirm whether the Oeatige societies in that eonntry are illegal or not ; but, Undoubtedly, the Honst will be grati fied in learning that the.whole of the geand lodge of Ireland, that is, all the eltiefs of a society. 'night easily be transported ; fcr all members of the grand ledge of Ireland are members of the grand lodge of England i find the words of the statute are, "Every person who, after the passing of this Act, shall, directly or indirectly, maintain correspondence or intercourse with any such society," &c. " or who shall by contribution of money or otherwise, aid, abet, or support such society, or any members or officers thereof, as such shall be deemed guilty of an unlawful combination or confede racy." Thus it is evident that any person who has attended a meeting of the Grand Lodge of England is liable to be trans ported. Now 1 find recorded as present at various meetings of the Grand Lodge, the following members of the Grand Lodge of Ireland: -Lord Roden, Lord Thomond, Lord Longford, Lord Cole, M.P., th e Hon. Randal Plunket, M.P., C o l one l V erner, M.., Colonel Perceval, M.P., Henry Mannock, Esq., M.P., Anthony Lefroy, Esq., M.P. It would be sufficient to put the laws in force against these gentlemen to destroy the Orange In stitution in Ireland.-(Cheers and laughter.) ' Thus, Sir, it seems to me easy in various manners to put down these societies. At least, let the Government adopt the advice of my Honour able Friend. Let them strike off the Bench every Magistrate who is an Orangeman-(Cries of " Hear, hear")-let them dis miss from their employment every functionary who belongs to those societies-(hear, hear)-let them oblige the Horse-Guards rigidly to enforce its orders--(hear, hear)-in short, let them con sider the muster-roll of that society as the list of their bitterest foes-(hear, hear)--as the catalogue of those implacable enemies of the people's rights, to whom it would be madness for their own sake-to whom it would be disgraceful for the people's sake-to confide any public trust. Thus proscribed, the scciety would soon perish ; and if the Administration have either courage or energy, they will not hesitase long ere they strike the blow. It will be miserable folly to conciliate the Orangemen.---(Hear.) If the Ministers do not crush them, they will crush the Ministers-the struggle is a mortal one.-(Hear, hear.) He who spares his foe inflicts a wound upon himself-he who refrains from destroying will be destroyed. The Orangemen are now in their power-let them not hesitate one moment, but seal the doom of these noxious socie ties, and crush the chiefs. -(Long-continued cheering.) • The resolutions were then read by the SPEAKER. • Lord J. RUSSELL conceived it to be a duty on his part to address the House as early as possible after the two Hon-. Gentlemen who had moved and seconded the resolution, ire order to put it in possession of the course which, as he had given notice on a former day, it was his intention to pro pose. In proposing that course, he certainly felt that there never was a question upon which it was more important to come to a right decision-(Hear, hear) ; and that in stating his views upon this subject, he must be considered also ns stating the general views of the Government -upon it, who had at different times anxiously and seriously considered it. -( Hear, hear.) He should say on die one hand, that they had considered it with the opinion that the societies which had been the subject of debate that evening were mischievous Ito the country, and-that their view ought to be to endeavour their suppression—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) And, on the other hand, he must say that he approached the subject with no such feeling as that which he understood his Hon. Friend the Member for Cornwall to recommend them to entertain-namely, a feeling that tnose who were the heads and formed the phalanx of the Orange societies were the bitter enemies of the present Administration. .He wished to consider those societies as they affected the peace and well being of the country, the due authority of the Government, and the proper administration of justice. If he should find grounds sufficient to warrant him in considering them detrimental to these objects, he thought be was entitled to ask the support not only of those who considered that it might be advantage ous to strike a blow against the enemies of the present Admi nistration, but of those who, feeling opposed and hostile to it, would still regard those general ends he had mentioned as pa ramount to all considerations of party--( Cheers)-and as equally binding upon their side, as well as upon his, in the pre sent discussion. In treating of this .patter, he felt it necessary to say at the outset, that he would not enter upon any part of the subject of those papers and that correspondence which the Hon. Member for Middlesex had produced to the House ; and as this was the first time he had ever heard of them, lie would think himself justified in withholding any declaration of opinion upon their contents. Stated as these had been by the Hon. Member with such minuteness and such excellent arrangement, he would confess that there was enough in that matter to require serious consideration.-4 Hear, hear.) But he thought 'he should not be in any way justified in pro nouncing an opinion with regard to'the extracts and the re sults of the correspondence. He should confine himself, therefore, to that which had appeared on a former occasion in evidence before a Committee of the House, to that which was declared in the resoluticn s of the House read at the commence ment of the debate, and to that which was notorious to all who took an interest in public events. He then said that he consi dered by far the most importart! part of the question relating to political societies to be that portion of it which concerned Ireland. And having attended as carefnlly as he could do when public attention was first drawn to it, and since that time to the whole body of evidence adduced, and particularly to the statements made by those who were members and great officers of the Orange lodges, without at present inquiring what their motives might be, or at all i n t en di ng to cast any imputatio n or , w h at they declared to be their motives, he must say, he thought the effect of those societies had been injurious to the good government of Ireland. He thought that by the existeect of societies of this kind, arranged in bands, following no recognized or lawful authorities but their own leaders, and holding it to be a part of their duty to enter into warfare and dissension at their command, whether founded upon religion or not, a distinction was Made between them and some other part of the King's subjects, who formed themselves into coun ter societies with other names and distinctions, and a perpetual and ever-recurring source of' disunion, disaffection, quarrels, and bloodshed, was ereated.-(Cheers.) He thought it an evil of those societies, where men of the lowest order were brought into conjunction with men of the highest, that the forme‘- Were taught to look to those who were high in authority in the society as the leaders to whom they ought to render n'oedience, instead of to the Crown, and the depositories in which the trust of the Crown was placed. The natural alle giance of the subject was weakened, in so far as to have two heads and two sovereigns instead of one- ( Hear)-and while the one received only that general and abstract deference which led to no results, to the other was united that combina tion of party passion and sectarian feeling, as it might be in this case, which rendered the obedience paid to the one sluggish and p :ssive, while that paid to the other was certain and active. Ile held it to be an evil inherent in those societies, for lie was speaking now of their natural constitution, that Le• ing thus supported by their own leaders, they clung to their party feelings, and party animosities, in despite of the supre macy of the law. -So ob s ti na t e were t h e i r party feelings, that even if a ca se was brought into a court of justice, it was not decided by its own merits, but the members of these societies regarded only the circumstance of the prosecution being in stituted by or against an Orangeman. In this way a feeling was introduced most hostile and injurious to an unbiassed course of justice. He very much regretted that the Hon. Member for Middlesex should have spoken with a disrespect which he was far from deserving of a Nobleman on whose au thority he very much relied, for confirming the impression ho had received with respect to this subject, who, although he was not related to him ( Lord J. Russell) by party ties, was a boson of th a t sense, prudence, and moderation, that lie ght he had been with perfect justice recommended to fill the office of Lord Lieutenant of a county. (The Noble Lord here sunk his voice so low as to be nearly inaudible.) He proceeded to read an extract of a letter from the Earl of Cale don, the Nobleman to whom he alluded, to Cols:lel Verner, denying the right of any party who leagued themselves toge therppou she in tdi o n a o of p f o mI l i r t ee i l e n, a m l do s , o f e i different stating i t fr y e t r o e nt call habits aaltl the coa themselves nrdangw t e h a the y bs P o d r o o yf t e wt s h t ai a sn n kc t ion p i ng o -- some disposed t o ma i ntain the laws, and - others to defy' their authority, and expressing a belief that all the party as sociations were dangerous to the peace of the empire and per nicious to good order, and that those members of them in clined to uphold the laws had not the power to do so. The Noble Lord then read some extracts from the evidence of the Earl of Caledon before the Committee on Orange Lodges to the same effect, and objecting to them as tending to give to in dividuals a power and eminence unkno wn to th constitution. This was the opinion of a man certainly not of extreme liberal opinions, generally supporting those opposed to him (Lord t. Russell) in plitics, but taking a calm and impartial view if society in the North of Ireland, where he resided. Such 'tying his ( Lord J. Russell's) view of this and similar in. eitetions—cons'dering them as injurious .to the peace of society, as weak en i ng th e aut h or i ty o f t h e C rown , as v e r y much infringing the supremacy of the law, and likewise as as subversive of that religious harmony which might otherwise ercvail, he declared freely that his object would be, if possible, to rid himself of all associations of that peculiar character, ►hether known as Orange or Riband societies, or by any other name..—( Cheers from both sides of the House : ) But in viewing this question as a matter of State, they had 410 tU COnsider the various obstacles which might s•eee = this object, • and 4 1 .. in the way of effecting method upon the whole best calculated to ...ere it. There might, be P e penarelliie ee vere tak. ing teeSKPS th.t ligqi; be.l.!'ef'del viumpt, and energetic, hitt which; Se fai• from destroying the flame of these associations, would but raise it, higher—Oleas, hear, from the Opposition benches)--Weilld but stir it up to aright which it Would not naturally hOtee attained, and, instead of utterly eititeill4,l;her it, would produce tl fiercer and more conseetilig blaze - . Let the Muss consider the pridpcieals which the lion. Membei for C'brtiliali. iii Stiati6 upon this subject. He stated thVe'e, loeing the clearest pesSible; the they might be so to hie utidetetan4itigeee-(Laugliter tile Opposition, and cheers frerii the tide.) \ v hea he said this, he kneW kikai i 4 .‘!ttlY Men as zealous and loyal as he, and deeply 'versed in the law, entertained the same oPinietts as his Hon. Friend. Ile certainly Was very far from intending any reflec tion upon the Hon. Gentleman, but he had expressed himself as it there could not be the least room for doubt on the sub ject. A report had been made last year by the Committee on Orange Lodges, which stated that it teas not necessary to enact new laws against them, but that the existing statutes, it put in execution, would be quite adequate for the total sup p ession of such associations. They (Ministers) had consi dered it their deity to ascertain what view of the subject would be taken by the law officers of th e C ro wn, and he had tho ug h t it right, instead of putting the question in a particular light on a subject of such vast importance, to see his Hon. and Learned Friend the Attorney-General, and converse with him generally on all its bearings. The impression upon his mind, after all that his Hon. Friend had stated, was, that the question whether these societies were legal was one of very great doubt. His Hon. Friend said, that without looking most care fully at the whole subject, he could not venture absolutely to pronounce an opinion as to their legality or illegality, and the Solicitor-General took a similar view of the case. The Go. vernMent, therefore, were of opinion that if the severe penal statutes already in force did not contain clear enactments against this offence, it was not proper for them to seek to find some meaning in the law which would be construed by others, and probably y men of eminence at the bar, into a straining of the provisions of the law, and would make it doubtful whether they had not forced the meaning of an enactment in order to procure a condemnation of the societies in question. Even if they had been able to discover, that although the Orange so cieties had contrived to evade the law in some.points, they had yet contravened it in others, and could have thus obtained a conviction against them, he thought it would be mischievous to the general liberty of the subject to attempt giving a strained interpretation.—(Hear, hear, hear.) At the same time, he certainly had heard nothing from his Hon. and Learned Friend which could induce him to believe that these associa tions had the sanction of the law. As far as he (Lord J. Russell) could follow his argument, he must say, without at tempting or presuming to form any opinion on the subject, that the point seemed to be one of very considerable difficulty. The taking of oaths illegal by the statute 39 Georg e 111. they had dispensed with ; secret signs and symbols were not legal, as had been established by precedents (the Noble Lord was very indistinctly heard here) : but it appeared by the opinions given by Sir W. Hall and Lord Gifford, that the Orange so cieties did not come within the meaning of the law in 1822, and therefore, if they came within the terms of any act at the pre sent, it must be by some recent change in their constitution. Now, if they were considered legal in 1822 by great authorities, and if without any real and substantial mutation some merely formal change had taken place, which rendered them amenable had take upon the mentioned ltiLab ae liberty toy the c coa case fsioa nl l. o u f d the At nti Dorchester to the penalties of law, h e s h ou ld certa i n l y b e averse to putting the question on a poi n t so n i ce an d on such narrow ground. The t otrhe ehHecosont course rr s l) l l ea e pb m ou übr pursued for eriH b Cornwallye would Government that time trades' unions existed in great numbers, and in the metropolis itself not less than 30,000 of them marched through the streets in procession for a particular purpose. There were extensive branches of these bodies in the country, and most of them were believed to have taken an oath which brought them within the meaning of the law. The question came before Lord Grey's Government, and he stated, in resigning office, that he had great satisfaction in finding that the unions had nearly ceased, although no steps had been taken either rigidly to enforce existing statutes, or to pass new laws against them. It was, therefore, the opinion of Lord Grey's Administration that the proper method of dealing with associations of that character was by immediately in stituting proceedings against them in courts of law. In the case of the Dorchester labourers the prosecution was not un dertaken by the Government, but by magistrates in the country, on account of disturbances in a particular locality. It only remained for the Government to consider whether, a conviction having ensued, and sentence having been passed, it was expedient to make any change in it-:_a ques tion totally different from the general policy of Govern ment with respect to the unions in general. IF, then, it were not expedient for the Government to strain the existing statutes bearing upon Orange Lodges, or to apply them to those cases, even if it were possible, was it ad visable to propose a new ,law on the subject? The opinion of the Government certainly was, that it was not advisable.— (Hear.) He believed that if they were to attempt carrying a Bill through Parliament to suppress them forcibly, they would find, that although they might get rid of the secret signs and of the distinctive marks at present in use, yet some other evasion of the law would succeed. His Hon. Friend, the Member for Middlesex, had proposed that every person officially employed under the Crown, and belonging to this Society, should be dismissed from his situation, and that every judge who was a member of it should be removed from the bench. Now, the intation of the law certainly was, that the Crown should have the power of removing any judge. If the Houses of Parliament should convince themselves that a par ticular judge was unworthy to remain in his office, it was then necessary for them to address the Crown for his removal. He thought, therefore, that this general way of addressing . the Crown, without entering into the case ref each particular indi vidual affected, was scarcely consistent with the independence of the bench.--(Hear, hear.) He came now to the question as to the propriety of removing at once every magistrate and person in office belonging to the Orange Societies, and he should view it with reference to what be had stated to be his object-- the suppression of these associations. He could not but think that those magistrates in Ireland who had belonged to these societies, and who had entered it, as be believed, with the conviction that it was intended to secure the Protestant inte rest in that country, if they should be removed at once by an address of this kind, without any previous declaration, either from the House of Commons or the Crown, would conceive such a stigma affixed to them, that they would still remain banded together from a spirit of resentment, and would re gard the measure only as an unfair and biassed transaction.— ( Hear, hear.) The course they had hitherto pursued was this : they had much correspondence with the Lord-Lieutenantsof Ireland upon this subject. Though there had been many per sons members of Orange Lodges, and very offensive to his Government, y et t h ey h a d not thought proper to remove those individuals for that cause; but at the same time they thought, and he was himself disposed to adopt this course, that where a person applied for any official situation of trust and respon sibility under the Crown, inquiry should be made whether he were an Orangeman, and if he meant to continue in that so. ciety, that his appointment should not take place. He thought it was the right of the Crown, when a trust was to be reposed in any person, to satisfy itself that he should fulfil the condi tions required for discharging in He certainly should be of opinion that an individual who paraded in a great Orange pro cession in a market-town of Ireland was not a fit person for any such situation. To show, however, tire spirit which pre vailed among many persons holding a high station in Ireland, and the view which the Loral-Lieutenant and many Noble Lords entertained on this point, he - would take the liberty of reading to the House two letters out of a correspondence which passed between Lords Dunsany and Morpeth rela tive to a Mr. Smith, who was recommended for the post of a Deputy-Lieutenant. The Noble Lord then read the fol lowing letters it Dunsany Castle, Dee. 27, 1834, My Lord,—.l received your Lord hip's letter of the 26th inst. , this day. In your former letter you asked me Whether M r . Henry Smith geld as, ()Mee in an Orange Society. I answered that I had , no means of ascertainin g , not belonging to it myself. My Joni Mr. Plunkett, was then in the county of Kilkenny ; he is noit generally with me, an d i n f orms me that Mr . Henry Smith no longer holds the office mention, but Anoth er r e p l ace d hi nt abdut a year agd, As to Lib bein g an O rangeman, I suppose he is,as lie ' held office, and so ar e pro b a bl y half the magistrates iii the glly (Hear, hear, from the Ministerial beticlies)—and if to, they are tIW more watchful of the evil designs of the Ribbandme n , of whom a : large majority of the labouring classes ate composed ; " I have the honour, Ptii4SANf," He (Lord John Russell) considered this letter as a prdof of the distorted views which men of irreproachable chaikhie t d ,jh of this subject, The answer' of Lord Morpeth was dated the 9 9th of December, and Was as follows "My Lord,—As your Lordship, hi you r letter dothe 2iit L ii d. stant, in recommending Mr. Henry Smith, states that yon suppose him still to be an Orangeman, and as it is his Excelle n e y ' s i n teri L tion not knowingly to make any more appoitittniiffig ittemneri that society—(Cheers from the Irish Opposition Members)—his Excellency must therefore repeat, that unless Mr. Smith denies his connexion with it, or signifies his intention OtWitlicliatking fromit, he must decline to nominate him dePtity-lietitenant . for the County of Bleath.—( Hear.) His Excellency cannot Close this correspondence without expressing his most entire and utiqilalifiiid dissent from the opinion which appears to be CtitiVeyed in the latter part of his Lordships letter, that magistrates, by becoming Orange men, are thereby more fit to watch the designs of Ilibba.ndmen.- (Hear, hear.) Should such designs ekist to the extent and amongst the persons your Lordship duppoles, hit E*Oelleiter will look alone for their suppression to the open and impartial cipc' harge of their duty by the magistrates as such, and not to tffeir connexion with Orange institutions."—(Loud cheers. ) Now, such (continued the Noble Lord) was the view in which the present Government and the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland took of their duty in respect to this society. He did not put in the same class the Ribbandmen mentioned by Lord Dunsany; when it was found that the society of Ribbandmen acted against the law, means should be taken for their suppression ; but there was a difference to be observed between the two societies Whilst the Ribbandmen consisted of persons (without adopti n ; the proportion of Lord Dunsany) of the labouring, da-- 0. for there was no person in the situation of Me , - hament, or of Lo-d Lieutenant of a count -.4uer of Par corn.priecl io the _. hlgh§attons belonged association of Ribbandmen—persory to the other society, and best counterpoise to ^ _ r pear g 4 tp think that it was the e 4013 Societies. So that tha Lord Lieu- enact and the present Government thought it their duty, .when cases came before them where pet.eotis Were tecom mended for appointments, to abstain from making those ap mintments, when the persons ,recommended belonged to Orange code' e, 4e,el ii , !ldeeeiniede Vikire tberehy,se; far tainted is to have a tendency towards those societies, Witilgt the duty a magistrate Was id act itripietially towards all classes of society. Then lia iiaf Prep4red e td Say that it was not only convenient to adopt meastiee§ di 1116Cdtiragrrient in respect to those societies, but he thought, when, their nature was so com pletely unydicd s tr.; confiniried ,in ,the opinion of liberal '"'" • 441() 1 tfiddnalle dititinieh - and he every parry, tney Was prepared to add to these discOuragemenis i g h;ther dis couragement of an address to his Majesty by this House.— ( Hear:) He should pot be prepared at once to say that he 'could agec , ,e tet MI iteett-eft /11$ ,:lialegy tetneoee, persons from , the situations they held without some mote friar . e?tid its ded allegations against them; but he thOught that if this House came to the opinion that those societies Were mischievous, and were to address tile dratiei td dist:vitt-0e such societies, and the sanction of the CroWn Was obtained td That address, he thought the pTisen§ iii ,high siitiations belonging td those so cieties would ne ptddedhid different eletiation:—(llear hoar.) Not only would those mist:ins who nethigt'd td 07ange so cieties; and who Weri.i Mernbeit et that House and of the other House of Parliament, „in high Situations in Ireland, but the person alluded to by the Hon. f a rl'ertlY.4 for, Drogheda, as nearest the throne,—that illustrious Prince, wheil!!:?. !Dom the sentiments of tiftit Ildosg, and when those sentiments had received his Majesty's sanction—he and Other Members of the Society would take a different view of their duty—(hear)— and whatever ends they might propose to themselves from the establishment of' Orange institutions, they would not be so in different to the welfare of' the country as to resist an opinion so solemnly pronottneed.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He (Lord J. Russell) would Say but a few words More in respect to the general bearing of' the question. He did not know whether they ought to be surprised at the existence of these societies, and others of' a .sirtiihrr 011tieatto' in Ireland. The .o'll arose from the anomaly_ which nothing COW lirefdnt,the state of things when William 111. ascended the throne of these tealms, who was welcomed ley a great majority of the people or Eng land and Scotland. Yet in Ireland his power rested on— first, force of arms, and secondly, the energy and zeal of a minority of the people. That minority was supported by laws of a harsh and unequal nature ; but when that majority in number grew in strength, and wealth, and intellect, it claimed, as was natural, and as it was right it should claim, an equal participation in power.--( Hear, hear.) But it was impossible that that equal participation could take place without offending the prejudices, and alarming the fears, and destroying the power, of those who had held the mo nopoly of Government under Great Britain In Ireland. They resolved to resist these inroads, and TeCOLIM tats had to combination, union, and secresy ; and by combination and union they were able to maintain a part of that power which they were called upon to resign. Hence arose societies of a secret and exclusive and religious nature; but be (Lord J. Russell) thought they might come to the opinion of Lord Calcdon, that these separate societies would soon dis solve, and all would resort together to the temple of the law.—( Hear.) He was bound to say that to Protestant, and Roman Catholic, and Presbyterian, and any other dif ferent religious faith, the British constitution and the laws of the kingdom afforded sufficient protection: If the Mi nisters of the Crown were negligent of their duty if they did not give sufficient protection, both Protestant and Catho lic might complain to Parliament, which would visit with its displeasure any Minister who should have denied or neglected to afford protection to any one.—(Hear.) If the Judges, who were bound to administer the law equally, did not do ther duty, application might be made to Parliament and to the Crown for a remedy. He, therefore, entreated all parties no longer to rely on this false and inadequate protection, which made men, and the best men, subject to the vilest adventurers—( Loud cheering from the Opposition)--but to remove a power which the good and vim uoul intended for good and virtuous purposes— ( Cheering as before; and to rely on the Constitution of the country for justice. With this view he should move an address which he had framed in the humble, but at the same time earnest hope, that it might prove a measure conducing to the tranquil lity of a part of the country, and to the future welfare of the whole. The Noble Lord (who concluded amidst prolonged cheering) then moved, " That an humble address be presented to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would be graciously pleased to take such measures as to his Majesty seemed advis able for the effectual discouragement of Orange Lodges, and generally all political societies, excluding persons of different faith, using signs and symbols, and acting by associated branches." Mr. W. PATTEN, as the Chairman of the Committee on Orange Lodges, wished to express the great pleasure heliad de rived from the speech of the Noble Lord. To show how nearly their opinions coincided, he would read the amendment it was his intention to have proposed :—" That an humble address be pre sented to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would be graciously pleased to take such steps as may be deemed desirable to discourage all political societies, excluding persons of different religious faith, using signs and symbols, and acting by affiliated branches." He was of opinion that the resolution should be as genera) as possible. Mr. S. CRAWFORD next rose. In justice, he said, to the Orange body, it was due to them to state that they were good and loyal subjects when not under the influence of erroneous im pressions. When first constituted the society was in close connection with the Government, to which it was bound by an unity of feeling and of interest.—( Hear, hear.) This continued up to the accession of his late Majesty George the Fourth, who was desirous of discouraging the association, and advised them to give up the public expression of their feelings by symbols and processions. This advice they treated with disre spect, finding that they had the Magistrates and authorities on their side. When the authorities flew in the face of the Government, how could they be looked upon as good subjects ? Something was necessary to be done to remedy the evils occasioned by these Socie ties. With regard to what had been said respecting Trades' Unions, he would only say that their exhibitions never exceeded those of the Orange Society. Mr. MAXWELL said, that the grand committee at Dublin had placed at the disposal of the House all its books and docu ments, and had directed that all the rules and passwords should be revealed to the committee of this House, and that the fullest information should be afforded.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He (Mr. Maxwell) had no objection to make to the committee as to the numbers on . each side ; there were 14 against, and 13 for them (the Orange party.) He did not object to some of the gentlemen but he did object to others. There were five Rom an Catholics, and every one of them was a lawyer; four had been disti ngu i s h e d members of the Catholic Association— (Hear, hear,)—and the only individual of' that number who was not a member of that association was the Attorney-General for Ireland. Two were gentlemen who were distinguished members of the Irish b ar ; one o f them, before the examination of any witness, declared that the object of the committee was to condemn Orange men, thus showing that his mind was made up and prejudiced against Orangemen. The Hon. Member then 'proceeded to point out a variety of objections to the proceedings of the committee. He treated with contempt the charges made against the Orange. body, as if they wished to alter the succession to the throne._ With the misconduct of the English Orangemen he had nothing whatever to do; the English Orange body and that in Ireland had no thing in common, beyond the circumstance that the Duke of Cumber lanewas at the head of both. That illustrious personage had been represented as the irresponsible head of the Orange body ; but all he (Mr. Maxwell) could say was, that the Illustrious Duke was not the irresponsible head of the Irish Orangemen.—( Ulcers. ) The Illustrious Duke had no more power over that body than he ( Mr. Maxwell) had—(Hear, hear)—and he himself possessed no more than the most common member of that body.—( Cheers. ) Mr. FINN said a few words, which we could not hear, in de fence, as we understood, of the conduct of the Committee. Colonel VERNER repudiated the absurd idea that the Orange bosly contemplated. or were attempting to brin g about, any . change in the success i on t o th e th rone . Th e P r i ncess Victoria might rely as unhesitatingly on the loyalty of the Orangemen as upon any.of the Protestants of the realm—(Cheers)—and if the day ever did arrive when the throne or the succession were endangered, Orange men would be found among the foremost to spend the last drop of their blood to maintain and support her just rights. All that he wanted was, that the question should be submitted to the test of a fair and impartial investigation, which it certainly had not yet met with.—(Loud cries of " Question, question.") Colonel PERCEVAL believed it now impossible that any Orangeman could for a moment think of averting the address to his Majesty to discountenance all secret associations, and in that feeling he would imitate the example of hit Hon. Friend near him, and inculcate on those with whom he had been connected now some years, to submit to the expressed will of hie Majesty, which to them was tantamount to law, and to succumb to the opinion which the House was about to express. He trusted the Noble Lord would consent to withdraw the words " Orange Societies," forming, as they did, only a part of the secret societies in Ireland.—(Cries of " Oh, oh !" from the Ministerial side.) He concurred in most of what had fallen from the Noble Lord, but he differed from Islet in thinking that Orange Associations were formed to support Protestant ascen dancy, arid that ribawlmen or defenders arose out of those 53,0.. ciations. Having said thins much, he would only repeat to the Noble Lord his earnest hope that he worrier v.?n - ,ent to make the alteration to which he had already referred, in the Wording of the rUselLitiOn in ennsideration of the feeling in which the spirit of that resolution WaS Met by those who were connected with Orange So cieties at that. (the Opposition) eichi of the House.—(Cheers. ) Loud cries of " Question," in the midst Of Whieli Ldrd ATAYLEY rose—lle was so much afraid to Italie rite of a Nellie!) might disturb the harmony that pervaded the koiiSe, that lie fitiktelee arisen if he could resist the temp tation to congratulate his Nutol§ Piiaci (Lord J. Russell) at the triumph he had obtained by the mild, quiet, pitklenti and states -digit-like tone lie had assumed on this occasion.—( Lot! Cheers.) He (1..0rd Stanley) bogged to congratulate his Noble Friend attcl hit 314,etty't Ooiertiniefit cm the great triumph he had th us achieved. As :Pi eld sinfiefely attached friend, he congratu lated his noble friend on if, and he also ethigtotal.ated the Govern ment on the great accession of strength it had t h at tictittirq, and On We meener in which it had been acquired.—(Hear, Reef.) Id eitpreesiiit iditiration of the prudent c ourse taken b y his Nettle Friend t perpose of putting down all s ecret as sociations in fiettilj lie must riot withhold that meed of praise which he was sure their molt bitty eifeiniee would concede to the gallant and manly conduct in which the conciliiitOry tone of his Ndble Friend had been met by Hon. Members at that (the Oppoi= tide) side tit the liettr.,—(Cheers.) At the same time he felt cOnfineed that his Noble Friend would do justice to his (Lord Stahleie) Hdritititable and Gifilent Friends near him for tleir willingness thtts to respond to his conciliatory tone by the sacrifice of early prejudices. HIE Hoff: and Gallant Friends would excuse him for calling them prejudices lent he did so think then - to though at the same time he firmly believed that they were end edneeientiously entertained.—(l - fele, hear.) 'lt was impossible for any one to doubt from what had occurred with respect to Orange associations in the last session of Parliament, that they were most pointedly included in the *irk of the pre sent resolution, and that that would have been the understanding with respect to them whethee they had been mentioned by name or not. lie would, therefore, ask his Honourable Friend whe ther he was not prepared, by way of completing his triumph, to omit those words which could not add to the moral force of his re solutien, but which might have the effect of weakening the in fluence of those by whose co-operation that resolution might be ren dered most available for its intended object.—(Cries of " Oh, oh," from the Ministerial side.) Gentlemen who cried " Oh," had a different idea of a Ministerial triumph from himself. He was sure his Noble Friend had not meant by using these words to cast any imputation. He was sure the resolution was so understood by gen , : tlemen of that (the Opposition) side. But the same feeling woutd not be found to exist amongst the less informed brethren. It wall on these grounds that he earnertly hoped his Noble Friend would I a-aye the ive of even one word which might offend the feelings of :yen cna Member of that House.-s 4 dicers. ) • Lord J. lITITSSE'LL felt great T airs hi being obliged to state that be had heard nallirier Whiell &m id .indoce him to alter the resolu tion in the way they bad stiggesied:- T (fOud cheers from the Mi nisterial benches.) In saying this, lid Yit'pe4 h Should be undar st:aal as not unwilling so to frame the resointiqn rta to meet the wishes of the Hon. and Gallant Colonel, and of oi.!?ert :who felt sensitively on limit subject, if he could do so without departin' from that which lie eonsidered his duty on the present occasion. It eliw appear to him, after What had occurred last year, that a necessity had arisen for potting al end to all secret associations, and that the House Was bound to declare its opinien, whether those so cieties were injurious, or otherwise, to the public tranquillity. fi e did not th'ipk, theijf"re• that the House would meet the case , fairly unless .) ;::,?_liition the words " Orange Lodges." It was beyond coftt! vii ! he p revious de bate had referred to * those societies, but . 1 1 111 -Xl 4 what had oc curred, and after mentioning other societies in general, 'l 4 ! , Was their duty to riteiltkat tlaoae in particular ; and he owned that lie did tint see why I-ton: dentleinett 141.91441 think that the use of those won,: implied a stigma ors them s there was no opinion pronounced as to the leftaity of these societies—there was nothing more said than that these, as Well riS other secret societies should receive the disap probation of the Groan. tinder these circumstances, he regretted his inability to comply With the suggestion of his Noble Friend. Sir R. PErdi regretted that the Noble Lord should not have given way to the 4Uggesition of his Noble Friend (Lord Stanley) , for he oeirsed that,though !lc (Sir Robert Peel) was prepared to assent to the Ps'c't.. - te laSrit's (Jo!!t! Russell's) amendment, it was not without great sacrif.jec of copiniort. He objected to pro ceetlitlg aly resolution ; he thought , they ought to indicate the will of the Legislatiti . ti law rather by a resolution of one branch of it. They ought g'ttidiously to avoid a course by which a dominant majority of that House et. 4414 denoune9 any party.— Indepently of his own feeling on the subject; lie objected to the words which had been used that Orange socieilass were illegal. The Hon. Baronet who had seconded the resolution had declared that all those societies were contrary to the law of the land, and added that the Attorney-General had nothing to do but to institute prosecutions in order to have them so declared by the courts of law. Now, if that was so, it was a powerful objection to this resolution, because if they believed that the members of Orange Societies ought to be prosecuted, and were amenable to the law, they ought not to send them to trial loaded with the declared opi nion of that House as to their guilt.—( Hear, hear, and cheers. ) acquiteeence of that (the Opposition) side in the resolution of the Noble 1,,'fl Vas not that of a reluctant, minority ; they had come to the lions' Prepared to acquiesce in a resolution couched in nearly the sanie n'firda as that of the Noble Lord.— ( Hear, hear.) They had not expected his amendment ; they were prepared to propose the criminatory resolution of the Ho nourable Member for Middlesex ; but when th'v heard the ex pressed declaration of' many Honourable Member;thzt they were to discountenance all secret societies, haying secret signs, and ex cluding persons ott account of difference in religious sentiments. This was the address to which they were prepared to agree before they knew the eonrse whieh the Njble Lord intended to take ; and, after what had beets stated by Hon. Members at that (the Opposi tion) side of the House, lie ihotight the most effectual mode of sup pressing taeetet societies would be by withdrawing words which wero found offensive td those from whose example and influence they prepared to give up all catttlettion with such associations, on hear ing an expression of the will of the Crown to that effect, they thought that the object of that House and of the Government would be sufficiently answered by the resolution which an Hon. Member (Mr. Wilson Patten) has expressed his intention of moving, which was, that an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty might be graciously pleased to take such steps as to his Majesty might seem most desirable might eiapeet co-operation in their great object. That great ob ject was to retitete tranquillity to Ireland. His Hon. and Gallant Friends on that side were disposed to make a great sacrifice for that purpoSe: If those Hon. Members who objected to the wording of the resoluatiti it* proposed by the Noble Lord, did not choose to press their objection, they might save the house a division ; but, if they did, he felt that ilffAlt the declarations they had made he could not abandon them. He =of, therefore, vote with them. Mr. O'CONNELL had come to the House prepared to vote for the Resolution of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, but he would not do so, because it might appear to be the triumph of a party. He wanted no such triumph, and if it were not for the sake of distinctness in the resolution, he would vote for the omission of the words objeeted to on the other side. After the candid and manly d ec larations of the Honourable members opposite, he thought that no stigma could be passed on any Orange . Lodge by the wording of the proposed resolution. He looked upon the words r e Orange Lodges "as a mere specification, and if Hon. Members opposite would point out by name any other secret association existing in Ireland which it was desirable to put down, he would most willingly consent to its being introduced into the resolution. When the Act passed which was intended to put down the Catholic Association in Ire land, it was declared that it was intended to apply to all political associations, Orange Societies included ; the Act, however, by the very first clause, put an end perpetually and by name to the Catholic Associations, l but that was not consi dered by , the Catholics as any particular stigma intended against them. In the same light should the words " Orange Societies" be taken in the presen', resolution. The Hon. and Gallant Member for Armagh did not appear to participate in the sentiment expressed by his Hon. Friends ; on the contrary he seemed to stand on the difference, and certainly no man had more influence if he thought fit to take that part. Let the vote of the House that night, however, be recorded on the books as an unanimous vote, and as a guide to future Governments, in case any Government should hereafter be addressed by Orange Lodges. He felt that no triumph could he gained over Orange lodges by the vote of the House that night, after the speeches of Hon. Members who had set such an admirable example, and whose loyalty was a sufficient shield and protection against any stigma that might be aimed at them.—( Hear and cries of " Question.") He repeated that he considered the term in the amendment as a mere specification, and not involving any species of disgrace.—(Divide.) ' Mr. R. PLUNKETT rose amidst loud cries of " Question." He assured the House that the party with which he was connected would sincerely and promptly follow the commands of his Majesty whenever they were made known through the responsible officers of the Crown ; and that he would use his influence in the county with which he connected to pat down all secret societies. Mr. SHAW entreated his Hon. Friends who were connected with Orange societies, under all the circumstances, rather to subnilt to some little pain which they might feel if the words were retained, than to divide the House.—(Hear.) At the same time he could have wished that the Noble Lord had omitted the objec tionoble phrase.—( Question. ) Mr. A. LEFROY, though he could not vote for the Noble Lord's amendment, was unwilling to divide the House—. , (Q ue „ Lion ! ") Mr. FLUME considered his own resolution the best, but after what had passed, he would not press for a division.—(" Hear," and " Question !") Mr. E. J. COOPER was of opinion that if the words were allowod to remain, the _ mass of Orangemen in that county would think it a stain and stigma.—(Cries of " Question," and " Read." Strangers were ordered to withdraw, but the amendment was agreed to without a division. The noose then adjourned at a Quarter before Two o'Clock. RAILWAYS, The North of England—Manchester and Leeds—and Dun dee. and Arbroath Railway Bills were presented and read a first time. The Petition for the London and Cambridge—Monkland and Falkirk —Newcastle and North Shields—Dublin and Kil kenny—and Bolton and Leigh Railway Bills, were reported, and the Bills ordered to brought in. The Standing Order Committee reported, " That in the case of the Great Western'Railway Petition, No. 2, the Stand ing Orders ought not to be dispensed with. FROM LAST NIGHT'S GAZETI' CROWN-OFFICE, Fats. 23, 1 836 ' „,,,,,Os r. MEMBERS RETURNED TO SERVE IN THIS FRESEVT TA,"'" 1 Char its COUNTY. OF LEICESTER (SOUTHERN DIVISION•J ~ , 00 ss William Packe, of Ravenstone Hall, Esq., in t he room 0 1 j" j Frewea Tumor, Esq., who has accepted the Chiltern CITY OF GLASGOW.—The Right Hon. Will l l , cnr j in 11e dish Bentinek, commonly called Lord William Bc.- 41 ! 1 ' - ' 110 c oterti room of Cohn Dunlop, Esq., who has accepted the dreds. • WHITEHALL, FEB. ` , 2. be I° - ' e4 The King has been pleased to direct letters patent t on et tbe ~ n et 0 g under the Great Seal, granting the dignity of a - -"a r°- f o llow' r ' United Kingdom of great Britain and Ireland to ti:e la wfalli Gentlemen and the respectire heirs male of their bodge' begotten, vle Sir Henry Bethune, of Kilconquhar, in the county of A 1 f l }3rir, Lieutenant-General Sir Thomas Maciouo - all Brisbane, ' 7 otI VI i n the 01 bane, in the County of Ayr, and of Alackeraown, Roxburgh, LL. D. K.C..t3. •11 .11.54 i Donald Campbell, of Dunstaffnage, in the County of Arg ) ;00 James Rivett-Carnac, of Derby, in the County of Der* Upper Harley-street, in the County of Middlesex, Esq. CO/ Lieutenant-Colonel Henry Fairfax, of the Holmes, i n the of Roxburgh: t to be f gundrcaNcseo, The King has also been pleased to direct letters pat , et a passed under the Great Seal, granting the dignity of a Pa r ; n o Oa the said United Kingdom, unto Colin Mackenzie, county of Ross, Esq., during the term of his natural life ; ig ,, remainder, at his decease, to his second son, Evan Mackeol; e i tolt of e and the heirs male of his body lawfully begotten, and, in ue .,,,i 0 o f Kilo)" , ' db . such issue, to his third son, Colin John Mackenzie, Esq . ' ' heirs male of hs body lawfully begotten. , , 0 ,4 The King has been i:4eased to direct Letters Patent to u e ') th' under the Great Seal, granting the dignity of a Barooetivirl United Kingdom of Great Bra: ' ain and Ireland, to the f°,2wfullY Gentlemen, and the respective he;: s male of their bodies ei begotten, viz.:— eon " t ` • The Rev. John Barker Mill, 6 f Moti*2.4ont, in the Southampton. 0 t he . Robert Wm. Newman, of Stokeley , and of Mamhead , ' of count of Devon, Esq. o untY Henry Charles Paulet, of West Hill-lodge, in ete e Southampton, Esq. „f{A• Sir Frederick Adair Roe, of Brundish, in the county of ' 3 th , Knight, Chief Magistrate of the Police-office, Bow-street'. county of Middlesex. c ontY Vice-Admiral Sir Charles Rowley, of Hill-house, in the of Berks, B. f V P' Joseph Sawle Graves Sawle, of Penrice, in the coun t y ° wall, and of Barley, in the county of Devon, Esq. CROWN OFFICE, FEB. 23. 8 136' yip Days and Places appointed for holding the Spring Assizes, - NORTHERN CIRCUIT. .111"1 er; T;;,e Right Hon. Thomas Lord DENMAN , Lord Chie f and the Right Hon. Mr. Baron PARKE. Yorkshire—alturday. Feb, 27, at the Castle of York. g yo 4" City of York-110 same day, at the Guildhall of the City 0 ' Durham—Saturday, ;larch 12 at Durham. 0 1'1 Northumberland—Wednesde.y;g:rch 16, at Newcastle- 0 1 ° 0 11 Town of Newcastle-upon-Tyne—The same day, at the Utl` Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Cumberland—Saturday, March 19, at Carlisle. Westmorland—Thursday, March 24, at AppleiN• Lancashire (North) —Saturday, March 26, at I:al:caster., Lancashire (South)—Wednesday, March 30, at Liverr°'' HOME CIRCUIT. P t. • The Right Honourable Sir NICOLAS CONYNGHAM Ttgo . „o' . Lord Chief Justice; and the Right Hon. Mr. Justice VO" . Hertfordshire—Wednesday, March 2, at Hertford. Essex, Monday, March 7, at Chelmsford. Kent, Monday, March 14, at Maidstone. Sussex, Monday, March 21, at Lewes. Surrey, Monday, March 28, at Kingston-upon-Thames. of MIDLAND CIRCUIT. rti The Right. Honourable JAMES Loan ABINGER, L t int . atron, and the Right Honourable Mr. Justice Boss Northamptonshire—Monday, February 29, at NorthamPO P Rutlandshire--Friday, March 4, at Oakham. Lincolnshire—Saturday, March 5, at the Castle of Lincoln. City of Lincoln—Sam's day, at the City of Lincoln. Nottinghamshire—Thursday, March 10, at Nottingham. Town of Nottingham—Sanl9 cizty, at the town of Notting m Derbyshire—Monday, March 14, .7.t Derby. : Leicestershire—Saturday, March 19, the castle of Leic es Borough of Leicester—Same day, at the bOrough of Leic,,eloottt City of Coventry—Wednesday, March '23 , at :he city of u Warwickshire—Same day, at Warwick. NORFOLK CIRCUIT. Mr. Justice PARK ; Mr. Justice GA szwa• Buckinghamshire—Monday, March 7, at Aylesbury. Bedfordshire—Thursday, March 10, at Bedford. Huntingdonshire—Monday, March 14, at Huntingclori- Cambridgeshire—Wednesday, March 16, at Cambridge. Suffolk—Monday, March 21, at Bury St. Edmund's. Norfolk—Saturday, March 26, at the Castle of Norwieb.4 oil City of Norwich—Same day, at the Guildhall of the e"' Norwich. WESTERN CIRCUIT. 0 , Mr. Justice LITTLEDALE, and Mr. Baron Bow...I:1100p Southampton—Saturday, Feb. 27, at the Castle of Wi Wiltshire—Saturday, March 5, at New Sarum. _Dorsetshire—Friday, March 11, at Dorchester. DcietyvonosfhiErex—etTerh_urssdamaye, day, at t l h 7 e , a G t u t i h ld e h C al a i st o l f e of th e El s e a t a e . r. citY ° Exeter. Cornwall—Friday, March 25, at Launceston. tpD Somersetsiiire—Saturday, April 2, at the Castle of Tau"' OXFORD CIRCUIT. Mr. Baron ALnrasoN and Mr. Justice W lL Llag g ' Berkshire—Wednesday, Feb, .k:4, at Reading. Oxfordshirp—Saturday, Feb. 27, .at Oxford. Worcestershire—Fri s d n3a a eirn y sad , reac A ydh l : a l r B ch 4, at Worcester. HCs Shropshire—Friday, March Staffordshire—Thursday, March a, a r t caht t 10,1182 e Shrewsbury. e j aw S t t y i .sHbli;orr Worces ter' yr e d o . ra Monmouthshire—Saturday, March 26, at Monmouth. Gloucestershire—Tuesday, March 29, at Gloucester. , ,p City of Gloucester —Same day, at the City of Gloucester. A P CIRCUIT OF THE PRINCIPALITY OF W r A' • COUNTY PALATINE OF CHESTER'Mr. Baron GURNEY, and Mr. Justice Cooral" Glamorganshire—Tuesday, March 1, at Swansea. Carmarthenshire—Wednesday, March 16, at Carmarthen' Borough of Carmarthen—Same day, at. the Borough of then, Montgomeryshire—Tuesday, March 8, at Welchpool. t' Pembrokeshlre— Tuesday, Mardi 8, at Haverfordwest. Town of Haverforthyest—Same day, at the Town of Haver' Merionethshi re —Sztu l 'day, March 12, at Bala. Carnarvonshire—W e dnesday, March 16, at Carnarvon. Cardiganshire—S a t ur d a , ,March 12, at Cardigan. Angloscy—Satu r d ay , 11f y arch 19, at Beaumaris. Denbighshire—Wednesday, Mulch 23, at Ruthin. Brecknockshire—Wednesday, Afarch 23, at Brecon. Flintshire—Saturday, March 26, at ;gold. Radnorshire—Saturday, March 26, at Presteign. Cheshire—Wednesday, March 30, at Cheater. WH, . 13- ow wa te .o r The Lord Chancellor h ITa EHALLs appointed FEB William Hope "or , of Ashford, in th e coun ty o f Kent, Gent., to be Zaster dinary to the High Court of Chancery. 11 , ' ,oe Commission by the Lord Lieutenant of the County of IVW" -- °I. 01 Monmouthshire Militia. Thomas Lewis, Esq., to be Colonel, vice the Duke of fles deceased, Feb. 12. f Ke nt ' Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of the county 0 ,„ West Kent Regiment of Yeomanry Cavalry Ace 13 ,i;t• Lieutenant Charles Wykeham Martin to be Captains • c e resigned ; Si r Ed mun d F i l mer , B ar t., to be Lieutenant , ' tin promoted, Feb. 11. DECLARATIQNS OF INSOLVENCY. JAMES DARRY, carpenter, Gravel-lane, Southwark' WILLIAM GILLIAM, butcher, Hillam, Yorkshire. BANKRUPTCY SUPERSEDED. 1 ,41. JOSEPH WALLWORTH, brewer, Newto n , Lan.lo" . BANKRUPTS. HORATIO WILLIAM HALL, scrivener, Air-street;4 o o6,, dilly, March 4, at one, and Ap r il 5, a t e l ev e n , at the 11 . Bankruptcy. Lackington, Basinghall-street, official assigne e Raymond's-buildings, Gray's-inn. sotias MATTHEW CATLIN, horse-dealer, Blackman-stre et, a t wark, Feb. 26, at half-past twelve, and April I, at one , fslac Court of Bankruptcy. Belcher, official assignee ; Ware' t , manLstreet, Southwark. st ~ e e RICHARD DARCH, iron -founder, Great G u ildfol l ve o , 4 l Southwark, illarch 4, at half-past eleven, and April 5, at ofd the the Court of Bankruptcy. Turquand, Copthall-building s ' assignee ; Bodman, Dowgate-hill. br / ' RICHARD HAYES, bookseller, Regent-street, 0 1 °' eleven, and April 5, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy.. p 350 more, Basinghall. street, official assignee ; Newton and Gray's-inn. BENJAMIN PALMER, tailor, Duke-street, St. J` iip te) March 3, and April 5, at eleven, at the Court of Ba n „ 111 5 - 1)01;. Gibson, official assignee; Tribe, reat Russell-street, 131 0 u n ivel, EXANDE R PEAT, wine -merchant, Muscovy-courtt v ale . ( hill, March 1, and April 5, at eleven, at the Court of Bev" Re"' Goldsmic!, official assignee, Ironmonger-lane ; Richardson, monger-la,: e. fare h JOSEPH DUDLEY WEBB, lamp-dealer, Fleet-street, Doo I, and April 5, s.!; twelve, at the C our t o f B an k ru ptcy. i „ e „cloi c o official assignee, Basiin'hall-street; Harrison, \Valbrook, i WILLIAM WEEKS, wine -merchant, Southampto n, 10, at twelve, and April 5, ai, ten, at the DOlphin Inn, S OU na lj4 ton. Whitechurch and Randall, Southampton ; Tilsons , 4 1 1 and Tilson, Coleman-street, London. JOHN LEWIS, horse-dealer, Ballyglas, Carmarthenshire, rthe‘ 7, and April 5, at ten, at the Lion Royal Hotel, Cal:riled.° Rees, Queen-street, Carmarthen; Price and Bolton, -1" rfo ll " inn, London. pro JOHN JAMES BUTTLE, corn-merchant, Pastor , igi r o rt' March 8, and April 5, at ten, at the office of Rober t r obl° Norwich. Wood, Aklersgate-street, London; Wortley, g l • o r, Norwich. se"' st DAVID HASLEHURST and HENRY BASEI;' colliers, Unston, Derbyshire, Mar c h 4, an d Ap r il 5, at el e the Town-hall, Sheffield. Atkinson and Pilgrim, Lothbull' don ; Smith and Hinde, Sheffield. (4DVEILTISEILENT.) NV A C HE S. f BROAD, Watchmaker, Deceased. _A 0 0, T. COX SAVORY, 47, Cornhill, having purcbasfii-stc ot Executors of Wm. Broad, Watchmaker, late of Leadenu s i s tiofrof deceased, the whole of the SPLENDID STOCK, O n ; big ac , GOLD and SILVER WATCHES, offers them at pric es ea' advantageous to Purchasers. The whole are arrant o 0 4 7, having the price attached, and may be seen by apPlie s ocert COY ° SAVORY, Goldsmith, Silversmith, and Watclolo Corahill, London. BIR T dean ebt On the 22d i ns t., M rs . Lawrence, Whitehall-place, o f a MARRIED. I6 iV til Hilton , g On the 23d in s t., at Marylebone Church, Captain o f r Lancers, to Harriet, third daughter of B. Aislabie, Esq' place, Regent's-park mao On the Massy, the22d the inst., at Clifton, Elizabeth Ann, daugh ter of the geda 7 years London : Printed and Published by MURDO YOIM eO O 1 li,), Strand, at The Sun Office, No. 112, Strand , in tll4' of Middlesex, PARLIAMENTARY DIVISION. (From the Votes and Proceedings of the House of Commons.) MR. B UCKINGHAN'S COMPENSATIONBIL L. Order for Second Beading read ; Motion made, and Question pro p se a,_" That tho Bill be now read a second time • "—Amend ment proposed, to leave out the word " now," and at the end of the Question to add the words " upon this day six months :" Question put, " That the word now' stand part of the Ques tion :—The House divided : Aglictly, H. A. Attwood, T. Rainy), E. Isal. Win, or Barnard, E. G. Beauclerk, Major Berstinek, Lord W. Bewes, islackburne, J. Bodkin, John James Brady, Denis C. Brodie, W. I). Brotherton, J. Brudenell, Lord Cayley, E. S. Crawford. W. S. Myatt, E. buncombe, T. S. Dundas, J. D. Elphinzaone, Howard Etwatl, K. Ferguson, B. C. Fichte.. J. Finn, W. F. Fitz.snnon, C. Fitz,,inion, N. Waked, U. Goring, 11. D. AYES--91. Guest, J. J. Harland, s‘'. Harvey, D. W. Hector, C. J. Hoskins, K. Hume, Joseph Jervis, J. Kemp, T. It Lambton, H. Langton, Col. G. Lister,' E. C. Lynch, A. H. Macleod, R. Matile, Hon, Fox Maxwell, J O'Brien, W.S.T., O'Connell, D. O'Connell, J. O'Connell, 11faiirice O'Connell, M. J. O'Connor Don Palmer, C. Parrott, J. Pease, Joseph IPechell, G. It. Phili r s, Mark Poulter, J. S. Power, James Pryme, G. Roche, W. llnthven, E. Ruthven, E. S. Sanford, E. A. Scholefield, J. Scott, J. W. Seal; Colonel Sheil, R. L. Steuart, R.' Strickland, Sir G. Stuart, Lord Dudley 'falbot, J. H. Talcourd, T. N Thorneley, Thomas Tooke, W. Trelawnev Sir W. WAldey, Thomas Wallace, R. Walter, .1. Wason, R. • Wilks, J. Winnington, H. J. E. ‘Vood, Alderman Wright,ou, W. B. TELLE Warburton, lf. 'flak, Charles A. Achestro f Viscount Alsager, Itichant Mangles, J. Methuen, P. Illi.rdaunt, Sir J, Mostyn, E. Paeke, C. W. l'aget, F. Parker, M. E. N. Patten, Wilson Pelham, C A Penruddock, J H. Perceval, Colon I Pollock, S'r 1•'. Robinson, G. R. Roebuck, J. A. Sanderson, It. Sandon, lord Scott, Sir E Sheppard, T. Sibthorp, Colonel Smith, It. Vernon Smyth, Sir G. H. Somerset, Lord G. Stanley; Lord Stuart, W. V. Tailored, H. W. Thomas, Colonel Trevor, A. Troubridge, Sir T. Verney, Sir H. Vesey, Hon. T. Vivian, John Ennis Wall, P. Welby, G. E. Wilbraham, R. B. Williams, It. Wodehouse, lion.E. Wood, C. \Vrottesley, Sir J. Young O. F. , 7 Angerstetn,Joiffl Z Arehdall, General Ashlev, Lord Billet y l c. Baring, F. Becket, Sir .1. Bell, 111 . . Berkeley, C. Bethel', It Beinham, F. R. lirariMan, T. W. Brownrigg, J, S. Bruce, C. L. C. Bruen, Colonel 11. Bruen, Francis Buller, Sir J. V. Btirrell, Sir C. M. Burton, IL Callaghan, Camphell, Sir H. Chandos, Marquis of Ch , plin, T. Chetwynd, Captain Chichester, J. P. B. Clive, Robert Colborne, 14. W. R. Compton, H. C. Conolly, E. M. Cooper, Hon. A. Conte, Sir C. Cripns, J. D'Albiae, Sir C. Dick, Q. Dunbar, George Egerton, W. Egerton, Lent Fran. Entwistle,Jclin Feilden, W. Finch, G. Fleming, J. Forster, C. NOES-125. Fremantle, Sir 'F. Geary, Sir W. Gladstone, W. E. Gladstone, T. Graham, Sir J. R. G Grant, F. W. Greisley, Sir H. Grey, Colonel HaWord, H. Hailybinton, D. G. Raise, J. ll:anner, Sir J. Harclinge, Sir 11. Hardy, J. Hayes, Sir E. nogg, J. W. Hope, Hon. J. Hope, H. T, Horsman E. Hotham, Lord Houldsworth, T. Howard, P. H. Inglis, Sir It. H. Irton, S, Johnstone, J. J. H. Jones, Captain Kearsley, J. H. Knatcnbull, Sir E. Knightley, Sir C. Lawson, A. Lees, John F. Lefroy, A. Lefroy, Gr. T. Lennox, Lord G. Lennox, Lord A. Lincoln, Earl or Lengtield, Lushington, S. R Lygob, Colonel Mackenzie, J. A. S. Maclean, D. WILKES M'Taggart, Jan I Clerk, Sir G., Batt. Mahon, Lord Ross, C. • Died on the 20th instant, at his residence in Plymouth, aged 86, Edmund Lockyer, Esq. Mr. Lockyer, served in the office of Mayor several times, and had been an active Magistrate for half a century. He was also one of the most zealous promoters of the improvements which have been made in the town and neighbourhood, so much so, that a new street bass been called Lockyer - st reet. He was the mainstay in erecting the theatre, and the splendid hotel adjoining, as well as the public bolls and libraries. 1, , .~