The Sun. — London, England, 1844-06-14 00:00:00

rHE SITN, LONfi6k FRTJ)AY MOB. HOUSE OF LijitDS,Jane 13. Their Lordships assembled) at Five o'clock. The Marquis of EXETER presented 140 petitions from various places in favour of protection to agriculture. The Earl of SEFTON presented- a petition against the Birkenhead Docks Bill. • The Duke of . RICHNIOND presented several peti tions in favour of protection to agriculture. • The' Marquis of NORMANDY presented petitions from Nor'olk, praying for an alteration.iu the laws re lating to coursing. The Duke of RICHMOND inquired whether there was any objection to the return of the number of convic tions under the Act alluded to by his Noble Friend ? After a few words from the Earl FITZ lIARDINGE, Lord WIIARNCLIFFE said he was not aware of any objection to the returns. MOROCCO AND FRANCE. The Earl of CLARENDON begged to call the atten tion of the Government to the occurrences which had re cently taken place in Africa. The friendly disposition of the Emperor. of Morocco to this country, and his constant deference to the advice of England, had not prevented his, proclaiming the ".holy war" against another European power, the ally of England. It could not-,be supposed that the Emperor had taken that course with the sanction of the British authorities. However, it was now beyond doubt that' he had made an invasion of the French territories in Africa, and that the war had commence!. With respect to the murder of the Spanish Consul at Tangiers, it was the tact that the man was killed in tin affray brought about by his own con duct, and for whicn the authorities were not in the least responsible. It had been suppOsed, but he did not mean to say that it was the case, that the Spanish .Go vernment had been incited to declare war by France ; but it was a curious coincidence that, after this. relations of a hostile character should so soon take place between France and the Emperoref Morocco. They might have been the result of accident; but they gave a colour to the idea that France desired to see Spain engaged in,hostilities with Morocco. It was most desirable that the line of coast now possessed by the .Emperor of Morocco should be • in the. possession of a friendly Power, because it was from thence they derived their supplies for Gibraltar. He could not conceive what object France could have in engaging in hostilities with Morocco, which must be in jurious to France. He wished also to hear. a contradic tion from the Noble Earl of the statements which ap peared. in the French papers, that those hostilities were excited' by her Majesty's Consuls on the coast of Barbary, „one of which, Mr. Drummond Hay, had been particu larly mentioned. The question's he wished to ask were, whether or .no the expedition to be sent from Spain against Morocco had been abandone d? —whether hostili ties had actually eommenced between France and the Emperor of Morocco?—and whether her Majesty's Con suls on the coast of Barbary had not taken means to prevent a state of things which must prove injurious to British interests. The Earl -of ABERDEEN said he would endeavour to give an answer to the three quest ions p ut b y his Noble Friend; but, in the first place, he would say he could not conceive any exercise of the power and influ ence of. that. House more useful than the interference, to prevent the occurrence of hostilities in every part of the. world.---(llear, hear.) They should be equally anxious to restore it wherever it was broken. They had, within the last month, been the means of preserving peace be tween two States, at a time when it was seriously threa tened; and though, from the Magnitude and power of the States themselves, the. war might not be important, it certainly would have brought on calamities most ha portant and extensive in their results—he alluded to the dispute between Sardinia and " Tunia.—(Hear.) His Noble Friend was wrong in supposing that the only cause, of quarrel which existed between . Spain and Morocco was in the death of a Spanish Consular agent. There were various complaints, into the justice of which he would not enter, but they arrived at such a point at last as to threaten immediate hostilities. His Noble Friend said, that he nould not conceive it posSible that in the present state of Spain she would declare war againsi Morocco Unless she - were prompted thereto. He was surprised .that his Noble Friend appeared so ignorant of the Spanish character. • ThiS question was not only altogether a Spanish question. but the truth of it was denied over and over again both to the British and French Ministers at Madrid. They were kept in igno rance of the intentions of the Spanish Government until what was called the ultimatum was sent to the Emperor of Morocco. The Emperor desired the mediation of the British Government with the view of bringing this dis pute to an amicable settlement, 'and her Majesty's Mi. nisters offered the exercise of their good offices for the same purpose to Spain, and it showed how little the Government of France had to do with the question, as, the French Ministry also pressed upo n the Span ish Government an acquiesence in that offer; and, there fore, as both had agreed to accept our mediation; he might venture to anticipate a settlement. would be ef fected of that dispute between Spain. and Morocco. If his. Noble Friend had asked him yesterday whether hos tilities between France and Morocco had occurred, he should have said that they had not, and that they were not probable, and although a skirmish had taken place, no thi n g which could be called war would, in his opinion ; follow; and he had this reason for that belief, that the force assembled by the Emperor of Morocco on the French frontier was diminished to one-half in the course of a few days preceding the events which had taken place, and the French authorities i n Al g iers were as much ' taken by surprise as any . one else by the incident which had occurred. It was clear that the Moors were :the aggressors. The affair was brought about by the fanaticism of a small body of cavalry who approached the French encampment more from curiosity than any other motive, and were. thereby drawn into the affair. He agreed with his Noble Friend that war with the Emperer of Morocco . could not be desirable to the French Government, and he thought they might look for a continuance of those relations which, if not friendly, had been peaceable between the Em peror of Morocco and the Government of Algiers. The Emperor of Morocco was the sovereign of the most fanatical Musselmans in the world, and how far he could control the excitement of his own people, or deal with the formidable personage who, when driven before the French, took refuge in his terri tories, might be a matter of doubt. But he (Lord Aberdeen) had received no information of any 'thing like a declaration of a holy war, or that would look as if the Emperor of MoroCco was prepared to un dertake a war of a serious d es cription. He did not be lieve that such would take place ; but if it even did lake place, he need scarcely say that it would take place, not only without the slightest encouragement on the part of this country, but in spite of every endeavour that could be made to prevent it. He could not question what he knew to be the intentions and wishes of both Governments; and with regard to the conduct of the British Consuls, he had received that very day equivocal testimony in favour of those to whom allusion had been made. His Noble Friend had alluded to the statements that appeared in the French papers. Ile (Lord Aber deen) could only say that there was not the slightest foundation in fact for supposing 'that her Majesty's Consuls on the coast of Barbary had anything whatever so do in ernating these disturbances. It might be that the "*". ten in those Vrgnch journals had for their object rather the Ov erthrow of the existing Government in France than the siseation of a hostile feeling bet ween the people of both countries, although he had no doubt that ss. to whom statements of there was a large class in Frans. , .hie Th Z re ld were the kind alluded to were not unaccsptas • -- journals in this country alio, on which side h e .. notT say, which probably had the . same object in view. AA, could only say that there was not the slightest founda • tion for the charge made against her Majesty's Consuls on the coast of Barbary.—(Hear, hear.) The Earl of WILTON presented a petition from the Chamber of Commerce - of Manchester against the Birkenhead Decks Bills. IMPORT DUTIES. Lord MONTE AGLE then rose to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice, for a Committee to inquire into the effect of the present system of import duties. The proposition he had ,to make was for an inquiry into a subject which deeply con cerned all her Majesty's .subjects, and in making it he did not call on' their Lordships to come to any resoltition 'of a definitive kind... He wished to remove . from their Lordships' minds any im pression - that might exist that this question ought to be considered as a party question. It was niit brought forward by him as a party question at all. .From. the • inquiries .prosecuted by,. the Committee of 1829, the present Government had drawn several of their conclusions. It was not consistent with the fact, or with Parliamentary usage, to represent his motion as a party movement, or one directed against a par ticular interest. It was enongh for him to say that all his interests were bound up with the agriculture,_ and, in the very first outset, he would admit that there were many evils and, nconveniences with required reform, in respect to the commercial and manufacturing policy of the country, as -well as in respect to agriculture. Many wise and competent alterations had. been made in the tariff by the present Government, and, that being , the case there could be no objection to a general revision of - our commercial regulations.--s-(Hear, hear.) But it was said that property would , be endangered, and that our commercial transactions 'would be undermined by the House acceding to his motion. He :thought, how ever, • that there could be no More seasonable time for the inquiry than the present 'He would admit that no financial alteration .ahould he hazarded, unless the Exchequer of the country was in a condition to meet the consequences of the change. The result of the tax upon income, which, instead of producing only 3,700,0001., as had been anticipated, pr0duced.5,250,0001., rendered the the present period especially favourable for altering the taxes which were imposed upoo a mistaken supposition that . they were useful in protecting_ agriculture. He thought that, he could show that these duties were no prOtection at all.—(gear, hear.) It might be supposed . that thediscussion of such a question was not adapted to such an assembly as their Lordships; but he thought that the Legislature ought to examine abstract questions, to guide 'them in the applicationaif particular measures. The Noble Lord then referred to Adam Smith and other 'economic authorities; who held that all taxes which pre vented theinterchange of commoditiesbetweentwo nations was injurious to both.. There were three kinds of duties - to which he wished to call the attention of the House. ; One was a ditty for revenue merely, which every subject was, bound to submit to, as his share of the general burden of the State. The next class of duties was what was called the countervailing duty—an impost intqndvd to prevent the competition ,of foreign untaxed produce with the taxed produce of home. The case of hops was one in point. For the purpose of revenue the Legislantre iiripoSed a high duty upon hops, and it would be there fore roost unjust to allow the hops of Trance to be 1111,' perted'vrithont any countervailing shay, But if you di-. vided society into ten classes, and protected prig, then the nine would have to pay the tax of that one, and if the whole ten were protected, then things would be exactly, as before, except_ for the . distbaction and _ — h IUE W The A— . • EATLIER IN EUROPE AND AMEBIC A: , sPring seems to have been one of the strangest seasons .14i111,411"Tn botla in Europe and America. Whilst in E e n x g- .. , easiv e l ;;;T l ea, and the north of Europe, it has beer! a 111 whi'" r Y, it has been just as wet in Portugal andSpa t l e , bl untli e 4 c l o l u a n y t . ries the rain was almost incessant during h as lit vere In the new world the drought has been 11° rth o'inl,he • States, Cuba, and Jamaica, as in the riti 4 4 z.urope, whilst in the little island of I3arbadoes e 11'4 beeu at s ho+►vy in t h e P • ula. Live r P 9l Ti . Iws ' . • %lvy 11,1 I 0/11/111 ""'" incontenien ' e occseionesl by an unavailable' taiiiost f millet?be appointed on the impOrt ebetiene - with the view It waS matter or . wceider that a system so -objectionable Of corisicleeing the effect produced by protective duties in itself should have been. so Jong continued : nothing on foreign commerce. could justify its centinuance. It was to be regretted: Earl - DALHOUSIE said that he had to claim the in that this question of protection had been so long mixed dulgence of their LordshipS in answering the able and up with party considerations. lie believed that the par- elaborate epeech of the Noble Beror; but be hoped , he ties who now supported the sliding scale, would not do. should be able, to show that the motion ought not to be so if they were not bound to it by party considerations. ageeed to. , . The Noble Lord stated that there was More He was; however, ready to admit that they had made thin one precedent for the course: which he was taking. considerable progress in this subject, for which he had lie stated this with pelf, ct aecuracy-; but surely. the to return his thanks to her Majesty's Government. lie ' Noble Lord must recognise a vast dinerenee between thought that no one could deny that. ,the inquiry for . the precedent whieh-the Noble Lord had quoted and the which he was asking would be productive of good. The course which the Noble Lord - was then pursuing. One Right lion. Gentleman at the head of the Government, , of the precedents which the Noble Lord hal cite.) was in introducing his tariff, said that he broug h t it f orwa rd the appointment of a Committee, on the motion of •a Noble to remove prohibition, and.. to relax taxation.. He said Marquis oppesite: (Lansdowne) ; but it must be remem he intended to relax the duty on raw materialsno redtise the tiered that. that Committee was appointed immediately duty on articles partially manufactured, and to reduce , after the Conclusion of a long war. That Committee, it the duty on colonial produce. Now his (Lord Mont- ' was true, under the circumstances, 'produced beneficial eagle's) object in moving for this Committee was to see results ; but those circumstances were very different to how far the intention of her Mat'esty'g Government, had those under which the Noble leird now moved for a been carried out. He admitted that the abolition of the CoMmittee. Tee Noble Lord then referred, as a pre duty on wool was one of the Moss beneficial measures cedent, to the. Committee upon this subject which was which had been adopted by her Majesty's Crevern- appointed in 1839. - This Comae ttee : also produced ment. Why then could the same principle not most bene:icial results, but it was: a ppointed at a time be applied to other articles of consumption?—(llear, when no inquiry had been instituted fur many ye.iys. hear.) There were , . protections on the statute Our corconer..e had for many years been in a state of book, which were of the most absurd character. We distress, owing to disturbances in the co!onies, and a con exported, for instance, annually. an immense am,runt of tinuation of war in the East and in China. These cotton manufactures, and yet there was a protecting duty evils had troy, however, passed away, . and . now, on articles of that description coming from the v ;otiti- when the commerce_ of the - country . was ju-t neut. The state of our tariff was a continual reproach . emerging from the effects of those evil, the Noble Lord to us, and we could never expect to see commercial came down with a metion for impriry. It was untea prosperity until it was thoroughly revised. It might be sonable for the Noble Lord to lautieli into a new in• argued with respect to the regulations as to the imp ,r. quiry before the pulley adepted by her alte:esty's Go tation of sugar, that there was only a difference of id. vernment, two yeas 'ago, hid been fully and properly per pound between colonial and foreign sugar; but their tested. The Noble Lord had said, that owing to the Lordships should recollect that the matter was not to surplus that existed in the revenue •'f the country, now be judged by the amount of duty imposed, but by the was the best time to inquire into our commercial system, amount of sugar which was kept out of the market. with -a, view to the. r, duction of duties. The . Noble Nothing could be more utterly absurd than their eb- Lord ascribed the surplus in the revenue.' to the income staining from importing slave-grown sugar, because it tax and the Chinese money. Why, this . itself was an was polluted with slavery. Why, .they took it from answer to the argument of the Noble Lord.. The in- Russia and other places in exchange for their exporti, come-tax was temporary, and . the Chinese money had and in proportion as they took this sugar from other arisen out or a fortuitous circumstance, and, therefore, countries they encouraged slavery in slave countries. could be no grounds upon which to make any investiga- They were to admit Louisiana sugar where slavery ex- don into our commercial system, with' a view to a re isted, and they even refined slave - grown sugar h e r e and duction of- duties. The Noble eird bad instanced many exported it:to their - colonies, so that it appeared, they cases in which duties ought to, be reduced; but the • had a conscience in England, but . had no conscience in Noble Lord must have forgotten, when he did so, the their colonies. Hp would now pass to the subject (tithe declarations which were- made by .the Right Hon. timber duties, with regard to which they gave facilities Baronet, the .:. First Lord of the . Treasury, • when for the introduction of an interior article to one of he introduced his tariff. . That Right Hon.. Gentle superior . quality. The Noble Lord went on to show man 'then - stated . 'that the Government were that the system of protection adopted in favour of Cana- desirous of making, large . reductions in , the dian timber had been productive of the most p ernicious du t ies on many articles, bUt . that, owing to consequences, had destroyed the export trade to SWeden the latge reductions which were already con and Norway,, and the Baltic trade in general , a nd g ave tem p lated, it would be impossible to make the full reduc them a bad article in the place of a good one, But the tions which they were desirous of making, and therefore inconsiderate repeal of the timber duties subjected them they had determined to apply the reduction to those arti to a loss of 1,000,0001 It had also a most disastrous des which were of the -most pressing necessity. The effect on the cooperage trade of the country. The next Noble Lord bad referred to the question of sugar at disadvantage that those protecting duties occasioned was considerable length ; but - as that question would soon the diminution which it caused in the home production. come directly under the consideration of their ' Lord- If they left the imports free the exports would take care ships, he did not feel that it was necessary for him to of themselves. The Noble Lord referred to the opinion of follow the Noble Lord in • that part of his argument. 'Mr. Deacon Hume on this point. Another great disad- There was another point to which the Noble Lord had vantage of the protective system was the impulse which referred, 'and:that . was the question of the duty upon it gave to smuggling. He would only refer to Spain to timber. The Noble Lord complained of the reduction show how smuggling was encouraged by high protecting of the duty on colonial timber. - Why this was some duties. The Cuntrabandista system prevailed there to thing like inconsistency in the Noble Lord , seeing that the greatest extent, and Spain was thereby a loser to the when the Government with which the Noble Lord was amount of 3,000,0001. M. Blanqua showed that connected was in office, the NOble feeel- him - self ad+o the same result had followed from the same cause in cated a reduction in the day on the article of timber. France, and he need hardly remind their Lordships of The duty on staves he (the Earl of Dalhousie) thought the effect of high duties in this respect in this country. pressed heavily on the• coopers of the country, and he It appeared from the returns of the French Customs that -for one would be glad to see an opportunity arise of re -3,500,0001b5. weight of silk were entered for exportation lieving that branch of the trade of the country.—( Hear, to England, and instead of the English Custom-house ,hear.) The Noble Lord had dwelt at considerable • giving something like a corresponding importation, it ap- length on the question of prohibiting ' duties, and peered that only 1,875,0001b5. came there, so that taunted the Governmentwith maintaining them. Now 1,713,0001ba. must have been smuggled, thereby he (the Earl of Dalhousie) thought the Government, occasioning a loss to the revenue of 1,092,000/. He need since their accession to office, had not shown a disposi only refer to the Statute-book to prove the extent of don to' uphold prohibitory duties, but -on the con:- stnuaing in this country. He would remind their trary had in many cases proposed their abolition. Lordships of the case of Lord Ellenboroueh.—(" No, The reductions Made were very considerable in _many no," froth Lord Colchester.) He could assure his Noble instances, and even in this very session a reduction was Friend he did not intend to wound his feelings. What made to the amount of 450,000/e upon wool, and coffee, happened to Lord Ellenborough inight have happened and ether articles. 'raking this, in connection , with the to any one of their Lordships. He had been travelling reductions made two years ago, amounting to1;200,0001, in France, and in his carriage was found some smuggled it was evident her Majesty's present Government were lace,which had been concealed there by one of his servants: - desirous of giving every extension to trade consistently The result of this inadvertent act was,in point of law,the with existing interests. , He bud- now g one through all forfeiture of his horses and carriage, with everything the grnnnds upon which the Noble Lord had founded that it contained. But, perhaps the most serious evil of his:motion,. and he trusted that, for the benefit even of discriminating duties was the internal divisions which those who were engaged in trade, their Lordships would they introduced. Let them consider what use had been reject the motion of the Noble Lord.—(Hear,. hear.) , Made of the prohibition of the export of Irish cattle to The Earl of CLARENDON said he did net blame this country, and the manner in which the wool trade the Noble Earl for nut having fully answered the speech of Ireland had been dealt with to keep alive dissensions of his Noble Friend, which' was- so •abundant in argu between England and Ireland ; and in this country at .meat and so conclusive in its logic, that it was impos this very moment they had the Anti-Corn-law League, sible to give a complete reply to it. But it seemedi at and the Protectionists arrayed against each other, and on all events, that in principle there was little difference be both sides imputing corrupt motives, which, perhaps,' tween his Noble Friend and the Noble Earle-('eHear, had no foundation. But, however they might deal with hear," from the Duke of Richmond.). His -Noble Friend their own productions, he contended that they had' no On the cross benches . was evidently of the same opinion. right to burden other countries by their vicious legis- =--(A laugh.) But it was impossible for his Noble Friend' lation, which caused other countriee to retaliate and to hold to be long in the office which he now so -creditably up their legislation, as he said before, as an object of filled without coming to the conslusion to which the scorn to Europe. If such were the consequences which Noble Earl had evidently come. And they were ye flowed from this protection, could they expect that. the quisite in the present state of this country. Nobody Government-, or the Legislature which continued such a could look to the state of the labouring population of system, would enjoy the confidence of the country ?' It this country without seeing that it was absolutely neces might be an easier thing to' frame a just system at first sary 'to remove the strictures' on trade, however they • than to correct a bed system which had existed fOr a might differ as to the time or mode in which they were long period; but this was - no argument against in- to be removed. There was only one branch of trade to quiry, in order that they might prepare the wa y , gra-, which he would referolhich was omitted in the lift of dually, safely, and impartially, for the adoption of a' articles enumerated by his Noble Fre n I—that was' the new and better system.(Hear, hear.) lie had taken cotton - trade. In the commencement of that trade it, some instances from their own system of laws ehe was subjected to-fiscal regulations, but as they were re would now advert to similar 'mistakes made by moved the trade increased, and the prices of cotton foreigners, and see whether they were not equally perai- goods ' were lowered till they were made accessible to cious. The first case which occurred to - him was that the poorest of the people.—(Cheers.) Well, after sucfi of the United States. From the year 1789 to 1807 the an instance, how could they refuse to proceed in' the foreign commerce of the United States was tolerably course which had been followed by such resultse_se free. During that period, when there was not such a (Hear, hear.) His N o bl e F r i en d had alluded to the silk word . as protection upon the statute-book of Congtess ; trade. When Mr. Huskisson resolved to reduce( the and the progress of the *United States in - wealth' and silk duties he was hooted and pelted en his way to the" power and commerce was exceedingly great--(Hear)— House of Commons, and was called. the hard-hearted no argument was more frequently used than this,, that Minister, but in spite of all the predictions which' had although protection might not be justifiable in the raatu- been hazarded as to' - the evil result of his measurie he rity of things, yet protection was very necessary al the P erseverek and"the 'consequence tees, that instead of the outset, and a grea t m a ny fanciful illustrations were silk trade suffering fresh mills had been built, the con brought forward to elucidate that point. Now, let them sumption of silk had been increased twelvefold,' and look at • the imports of America as exhibiting Manchester, instead of em p lo y in g 3,000 in the trade, gave the capacity of the people of the United employment to 15,000, and the silk manufactured goods States to enjoy the comforts of life. From • d ha been raised from 450,000/. to I,6oo,oool.—(Hear, 1789 to 1807 the population of - the United States . hear.) .11e would n o t a ll u d e to woo l, or co ffee, or stigar, was 5,300,000, and the value of the imports ninety -one for his Noble Friend had. so exhausted those subjects millions of dollars, showing an actual consumption of ar- that he found it as difficult to follow him as the Noble tides of import and luxury, brought from abroad, equal-Earl did to answer him. He would only say a few to about sixteen dollars and a fraction per head for the words, and they should be with regard to the corn inhabitants of the United States. In 1807 the system laws. He confessed he had seen nothing in the : state of non-intercourse commenced — then came the war, and of affairs to induce him to alter the opinions he held, and in 1816, what was called the restriction system was had so - often 'expressed on the subject.. The evils of this brought into operation. Ih .1828 it was carried out to . law were as great as ever, and might burst upon them the full extent--and what was the consequence ? Why, -any day. They made the supply of food for the popu that, in 1830, instead of each citizen Of the United lation dependent on the barometer, and if they.had two States having at his command various comforts and or three bad harvests, their most deeply founded insti-. luxuries of the value •f sixteen dollara per year, he tutions would be. powerless in c ounteractine the demands could only obtain a quarter of that amount. Restric- of the people. They had had now two good harvetta, of mo re than average prod uce , b u t could they expect a lion, which was intended for protection, led to the' trip-' habitants co ntinuanee of them? There were serious apprehensions piing of foreign trade, and injury to all the in of that country. Then came the Compromise Act. entertained with respect to next harvest—Meer, There could, not be more conclusive proof of • the inju- hear) —and he regretted that past experience had nut riousness of the protective system than was presente d by taught them to provide rem e di es against the recurrence the example of America. It was dangerous in a despo- of such a state of things as happened in 1839, when this tie state, but the despot might, by Possibility, be a country was on the verge of bankruptcy, and when they wise and enlightened man.---(llear.) In a Republican were obliged to apply to the ' Bank of France for assist state the system wasmade subservient to the vilest, lbwest, ante, from which he believed they could expect no ' most personal motives, and because mixed 1113 with assist ance now, even if they w ere to submit tb the anu ._ • • -.ions Taking the years 1841 and:lB42; national dishonour of applying for it. They had dabbled a party un- • i • he would eohipre the average imports which ought to with the sliding-scale, - but no useful change had been effected. Under such a system as prevailed at present have been admittesi with those which were actually ad- _ • f n countries oreig could not be induced to grow corn fur mitred. In vvoolleae theee onght to have been received, and eriod the them, the people of this country would . have barely according to the average of 4 1 ,e PFPReding P '• d to depend o th • The n their own produce. Noble' Earl value of 4,257,0001 , There had• only beets rpFewe vg . had referred with satisfaction to the reduction that had 1,400,0001. In worsteds shore augh; `to have been been made in the tariff. He was rejoiced, also, at those ceived 5,000,0001, whereas there had ntily been received: A that u on •156,0001. In cotton there ought he have been yone4Yo d —on , the ground na s correct Fine] les had been reeo n sed, and not 6,000,0001., whereas they had had only 2,7113.0004 Fi that ~ , .P g, . lines from attr re(' v fictions had been made, lime Rtglat Hon. had fallen front 9,000,090/ to 2,000,0001. ; • -i" s 3,000,000/. to 1,000,000/, and in short all the great arts- _ Gent man at the heal of the Government would not have made elaborate the purpose of those theses for . cles of conintraption had diminished aader the system o little • reductions ifh lead t some higher object in view. eno protection. What had been the workieg aOO iyetent , . inkrance ? France had bean extremely eager last yetis 1 . 110 Right. Hein Baronet (Sir R. Peel) knew well that for the admission of machinery from this colintr7, and, the population arapPacitiptivp power of thisoeuntry Were to their honour, the present Government gratuitously re. daily increesing, undehat it was neoeesary to acoomtto pealed the export duty. • Frence then imposed a; heavy . date their syste mood the change of circinustances. ' No protective duty on yarns. The effect of that was to One was foend efend monopoly 1 but they were cramp the trade of her own Weasels, But no, always told that, if they carried free• trade into effect, - ' injure the reven e sooner was machinery admitted from this' noun. the would U , and matt . themselves try free from duty, than there was a• "cry: unable to pay• the nubile creditor. It was - not . against for protection amongst the French machine makers. A .taxes and revenue that the free-trade principle was new protection was asked for against English iron. The directed, but protection in favour of particular effect of that protection was to destroy the French wine classes. It was a fallacy: to pretend that free' trade' trade. Thus they wen( round, in a vicious circle; of pro- would abolish the Customs duties, because those duties tiction, and injury was done at every step, not ,only to were uniform, and the proceeds went into the Treasury. the whole people, but even to those for whose Walt Tilttif Abligatiena to tha puhlio ortelits i e esiglie tti hayk the protection was intended.—(Hear, hear.) Bet 'bp the effect of Making them more careful not had httherto looked only at the evils of protection, to impose taxes for other purposes unnecesea,- Fortunately, owing very much to the legislatiun of rily, . lie was 'sorrY .to see that the doctrine NOble Lords . opposite, they were not without instances of retaliation arrived - still to find favour amongst of benefits derived from acting on good principles man y , intelligen , classeS In this country. The with ' respect to this matter.--(Hear, hear.) In mode of retaliation. selected generally tended to injure. 1820, . the Prime Minister of England, Lord Lieerpoel, themselves as well as foreigners. By imposing retaliaa stated in that House that •he wished there had been no tory duties they compelled themselves to buy dearly what such thing as a silk trade. Yet what were the facts re- they might otherwise buy cheaely. If other countries specting that trade? It employed capital to an . amount refused .to take their . manufactures in exchange for their of 12,000,0001 a year, the greetest portion of w hi s lewas own produce they must seek to attain their o bject by expended in wages of labour- - (Hear , hear.) , • There Other means. All attempts of foreign countries to in never had been a trade so . much the Victim of protection jure them were greatly assisted by a system of protec as that of linen ; but, after withdrawing the protection of tion. Free trade was the best means of promoting peace 4,00,000/., the trade had reached, in the north of Ire- aniongat the nations of the earth—far better than earn land, the highest state of prosperity, and the fabrics _pro- mercial treaties, Which were always accompanied with duced in that part were equal to the finest productions • distrust., and in which one or the parties elvveys_consi of Canabritere-7(Hear.) In the case of West. India produce. dered himself either a v ic t im or a dupe. — (Hear , the protective duties ha d failed . After the abolition of - bear.) - He should rejoice if it were proclaimed. to slavery and the equaliSation of the duties upon East._ t h ee wor ld that , henceforth they would engage 'and West India sugars , i ntroduced b y him in 1834, the: in. no, more coniniefolal titiaties,---(Hear, hear,) -They West Indiacedonlesbad improved in their ProsPerity, and phi, some reparation to the world. for the bad example he had lived, to see the day when those who anticipated • h they had hitherto set them. He believed that the only their own ruin 'from those measures, acknowledged carrying of the motion would be the prelude to a change that they Were 'the most . benefited by them. With-re- :which would be M°*t beneficial to all commercial ' spect "to the article of tine , the reduction of elreduty : nations. -- • from 18s. to' 2s.' had led to the introduction of thite'eme : The Earl of 'COLCHESTER said that if mankind toilet' into many important branches of manufaanre. .were likely to forget their jealousies lie should concur He .had laid beTore their Ltord§hips the whole o' his , with the Neble Earl in the sentiments which he had facts,•and all - he asked of them was to give him altopir ‘ i * * 4.loo 4 i b t it s believing that e ee h a resn't was not to portunity of laying the evidence 'before their Committee, .be • expect..d, he could not agree with the principles of free and he humbly prayed then( to give lion their support,... ..trade. .lie"thought it wou l d be very unwise to deprive Vortunately for mankind there had been twenty-three: :colonies of the discriminating duties :which at present yeare of general peace, and during that time the. severel ' existed, in the nneertain.hope that they would eventually nations of' the world. had - been Mil tieeting Inert eh es of : be benefited. industry, of .which England had before the eesfush el 'la D 1 . f RICHMOND was ve 1 • d . IP- .0 flan _re , mum 1 Furprise possession. Why, theneshquld the industry of Eitglitiel ,te i. ar - from the 'Noble Earl (the Earl of Clarendon) th it .be excluded .from a fair competition?-(Hear, hear.) ; th. agriculturists hatlit all their QWn way. - If he stated America, France, and Switzerlaml, had , twee= ,our e teliat :against fsrtners, they would tell. tins that he .mu:t rivals, but he believed that it' the industry of Englund have dreamt it. Would any mare say that th 2 fawner were frpg it Would be able to maintain itself agitinst s tlitie was net taxed" more than any•nlnn Li •the country?' .T 1 a competition. Tlip 140i4e 44 cpnpludpd by nipviog the caFineF who did Ligi make 3004 a year by his farm p Lei refOlUtipnr which was to .the ed'i'ct. that wSoko cent,. were than the mannfactWer Wile usede 30,000/.—(llear.? - tugs n t re age adept; Vnag/ ivooerYNstaelustifi• this ci e !? to a co die4„ . . c. the 3IP rt, gave jcdro? 'the • thealleg de‘lateeio ts spect to this case , PS that the 0: 4 ;curt then,— EFT:SA L 14 e aria Oa to °ere fo lio et t secA pliet ,d ti wourif Ldg° s ., uP°' oi i, ,f V 2 2" rog T ol ! re FeF e e. kat theof jeov 19th C e d s t t trilo t 1 0 ' ro il Jou os : 0 0 ;onc e ote r ,l the. it s A wit I'll. 1 ,. &bol ■ Wee°. - SPOtt- I k- u INT:gLLIGENCE Yesterd HAMPTON 11..1.CE5.• . tlayr , 0 ay Was what is commonly called the " Grand itss e „ lt : Al"uhey thirst, and if. one of the largest. tges ever collected on it be a proof•of " great- . t: ve ' r the eorreciness of the term may he - arlinit , ted r ead s Part of th e course Was literally covered, the r re ,, de r r‘ locket up in all directions, the ,rands and the • Carekss" and other lair- I r the inward mart had no reason to complain 4 patronage. S in f good; but to t4::111 iribi'l'este' Police—and concourse in order has always laborious and difficult task, even with a yesterday, we must say, to n I , t : . , ( ‘a employed proved themselves helplessly the " t of their duties. The crowd broke into tar r i a u ., l 'aing ground, at all times and in all directions r orista is il e t s and carts crossed it with impunity, to the Ivas ~Uati,. a s tl imminent peril of the jockeys, and such oelay between the heats?, consequent on the rek .a rag arid fihting with "course clectrers," and the lkro tiro the Police to act " without orders," that it was run, ye °elock befor e th e fi rs t h ea t of the Cup was ri rele aarl half -past six b e f ore t h e race t e rminated. The oMp.elt"geth-r was in the highest degree di- creditable, 14 44.. " 0 1 as we trust will operate as a warning •to the ter,,,:* er s of the. races never again t.• dispense with the th e (48 1 or the Police. So much for the course. Ot Vqke r , e '"""'g by land and water we have often trat e -- Oo similar occasions; we shall therefore d en at ourselves with stating that the heat and th e fr wor e excr.ssive, and the stoppages. arising- out of res• ( , ' 4lt e"t up on the road (always at the nar vieret a P 4 rt) to allay t h e one an d was h down the-other, ll tl,"tal, pregnant with danger to limbs and panels. C ruelty ga'nts of the Society for the Prevention of ate g ot Animals Animals been on the look out, they would I tkar k. n e ttl for so employment for a month to come, I t ) tam, Y L lt e'ver were horses so overtasked—never were Plitt„ r iY, eaten to a stand-still before they had accom kid Th .. ; fa their work. Great as the crowd was, we ?tsrC c i,: ss ed that general spirit of enjoyment, that perfect ~o ri eth: which for years had co-existed with . the playa ,eliph, (t he prohibition against throwing the stick, we are toe 'ed to announce, is withdrawn), and made Hemp 6t h° Inilike all other meetings, now, alas, for the un it p $ c o amongst the " has beens" of the Turf. tlrkeechsolatory to add several noblemen and gen tile , 4 1 , hare subscribed liberally towards a race fund, loo k ""e Surrey and Middlesex Stakes already boasts a Siii;„, eat algue of respectable names, and that, 'under the l kid '''l4hiP of Lords Longford and. Glammis, if a hbera 11 °Pe j t o udie '°us management be adopted, Hampton may regain its position as the best of the second - rate liti e , l 4°li tan meetings. Of the fashionables we cannot t hat e i l a lift; of the weather, we may say in two-words, t 't dusty afternoon was followed by two .or three I) °rtab s ' that made- the return from infinitely more sup- The 0 e than the j o urney to the races. .. ant Stakes. of 10 sovs. each, h • ft, with 30 ,for tw o yrsco tta, S oldB t 71b, and fillies Bst 41b; Si r B . 4 c ,ers extra. T.Y.C. (5 Subs.) kr. ePrY's I by Sir Hercules M ay's Corinthian Tom r, w (Matthews) 2 1 Lord orley's Sophy Dawes • ►, 3 r , l ll ,"slYn's f by Martian, dam by Blacklock...bolied fh e on Corinthian Tour, and 3to 1 apt the winner. to t h' a ce has entirely between this pair, the filly waiting . distance, and whining by a length. The Mercian der \ 4 / I tecl shortly after starting. 7,; ,',lesty's Plate of 100 guineas ; for three yrs old, t i ; lour yrs, 9st'llb ; tire yrs, 9-t 1 llb ; six yrs , to a ged , 10. t 21b. Heats, two miles. The winner "e sold for 500/., &c. t' r, r(P e ' th 's•Misdeal, 5 yrs (Nat) 1. 1 r Russell's Nat, 4 yrs 2 2 bl r. T uel<eray'S Dale.-man, 3 yrs • 0 3 P' C "letean's De vil-among•the -Tailors, 53 rs 0 4 ftgstl-,..'„ x' heat— 25t0 4 (at first to 1) on Nat. and 3to 1 to i 'disdeal—won by half a length. Second heat— Thel l "a , liscleal ' Who won by four lengths. h i urst Cup, of 40 sovs., added to a Sweepstakes of hvs• each ; t h ree yr s o lds, 7 s t 41b; four yrs, Bst 71b; Ci e , Y r s , 9st; and aged 9st 51b. Mares and gelding s o " w ed 31b. Winner to be sold for 1501. Heats, Sic c~ round and a distance. (10 Subs.) Heathcote's f by Velocipede, out of hr Miss Wilfr e d, 3 yrs ..(Crouch) 0 1 1 t aniiorouot' s Isleworth, 5 yrs te,POl Crocus, 4 yrs 2 • 3 3 hf Maidstone's Deuce Ace, 3 yrs IL Clarke's Chummy, 4 yrs ‘'ilz's Nubia, 3 yrs 0 dr woo lrst Heat.—A good race between the first two, was. the w sY, a neck. Three .or four persons who had forced r uti i,'''s into the course were knocked down by the horses, and one of: them taken up in a state of t la. - " sib ility—wewere not able to ascertain the conse * ; 4 : 4 of the accident. The second and third heats w ort Very easy. The Trial; ; NE ke WTON RACES—W wit EDNESDAY. Stakes of 10 sovs. each, h 25 added. One mile 14 .1 mile and a-quarter. lb % j ei klarn's The Best of Three, 3 yrs 'l, t tornbys Flamingo 5 yrs "Yale - Park Produce' Stakes of 50 nova. each, 30 ft. One 4 r , mile and a-quarter. T he7l ° , B ,triVe Brunel adl e `,"a Cup_ of 100/., given by the Lord of- the miles and 4 t 0 a Handicap of 15 soya. each, 10 ft. Two and Ste (36 Subs.) 44. trilhenson's Freedom, 4 yrs 1 2 eawson's Merry Andrew, 4 yrs Annytage, 4 ;41, f ollowing were not placed :—Mr. Merry Mostyn's General Pollock, 4 yrs ; Lord Westminst_er's_ to,( 46, 4 vrs • and Mr. Palmer's Betsey Bird. Betting 6 e l . h atat Pree'dom, 3 to 1 agst General Pollock, 7 to 2 apt Ikuirew, and 7 to 2 apt Armytage. Won cleverly. 01 CRICKET. ~.74-I(LEBoNg CLUB AND GROUND AGAINST THE a OF SURREY wart PiLcif.—This match was brought the dwell on Tuesday , when a lar g e assembla g e of visi sut f i , w ell as members of the Maryleb one Club were present, 4 thi„ -r mer of whom congratulated the vi ctors u p on t h eir 4 tit 1 1( 1 eMent for the. Surrey, won by three wickets , n otwith• rst g they were in the minority , of twenty-two on the 1 / 4 1 tati t i hands." The bowling on the second day was as th e ful and true as upon the Monday, and it was only with ka, b ,, r i Q '', test difficulty that the balls could be hit away. The for; '',.°° ,l e Club iesumed . the bat, but were unable to-gain a t ', more than fifty-two for their second innings. Of t `lveh, the only scores of consequence, and they were compa ,.`4q " 4 6 , 11 ' 41 4 were those of C. Harence and K. George, s 'ue former marking 13 and the latter 11 (not out). 114 y Urr e, went in, and having obtained the number, 76, kt i4 :Nuired to place 'them in the position of winners, retired Z a kii ! th e aPplauses of their friends. Pilch and Martingale gitt et 11, whilst Brockwell, a aneand slashing left-handed t wo t t .. „ ni ade 30 in excellent style, scoring a five, four threes, -4138 , and the rest in ones. • • . • GRAND THAMES REGATTA. r a ip N-11 s c4l ---His Royal Highness Prince Albert; Vice-Patro n n h s , e bake of gorthumberland, the . D uke stn of Bu 11 a 11 .4 Y 0 ti, Lord Castlereagh, L o rd Grunan d th e :Vice- . „ Th,„l . dor of E r f eland. he 11 0 0 4 0 . o s ks, W h i b ch Lave been open with T. L. Jenkins, Esq., "ie Messrs. Searle, for gentlemen and 110.4,11_ ecretary, and hn altej l desirous of conten:lwg in this great regatta, ap elosed last night at half or the 20th, 21st, and 22a, . k l i e g` ; t• Subjoined are the entries 7 hich it will be seen, t he first order, and which have been _limited for with 11 a nxiety by the public Challenge Cup for eight-oared boats ;. enti ) . t r6it N , ga•—Oxford University Boat Club, Cambridge Um "mt Club, the Leander Club, Cambridge Subscription S. l 6 Club. tt/ I ' Vtr Clallenge Cup, for four-oared boats ; entrance l eezis At e.t. ,.. — The St. George's Club; Oxford crew, consisting e )7 4 11Cr'I. Prout, Swabey, Milman, and Haggard , th •••• Pri o „ e3• Club, consisting of R. W. Hall, W. Rush, A. Prior, 410, , ,,and J. Charlton; College, of Civil Engineers ; the 4 1) 1 : ' 1 ° 11 ; the Guy's Club ; the Neptune Club. ° l ' : lli tle tt l lr of Silver Cups, for pair-oared boats; entrance 2 k:1 b e ach h t G Porter, Esq., J. Robinson, Esq., The 'lol,e 1 , A. boat. —G. Esq H. Chajma . n, t Esq.L A. A. Dalgleish, Esq., narring on, q., A. e Y• Esq. ; Messrs. Kennedy and Ronayne. ‘, i i , t h e l• Chall enge C u p, for sculls ; entrance 1 guinea.—J. B. ettr ' ,„ 4l ' P. E. Dodd, Ronayne, J. Higgin, A. Earnshaw, -41 1.%" Pe , T. Bempstead, Pocock, E. S. Kennedy, J. Macdonald, Esqrs. er WATERMEN.—One hundred sovereigns, for ~‘`Nkri t '; `:.'( l, _ boats open to all the world. Forester's Crew, i , 4 Nat„ leu ; Clasper's Crew, Newcastle ; Chelsea Crew, 11 - % of T. Chittle, T. Pressie, J. Hancock, G. Sheppard, I\' / "Wel l 'V Co les Lonlon Crew, 'l . s. Coombes, J. Phelps, R. 'satrib 'I- Co ombes (the champion), and D. Coombes ; , th 'to e !, Crew, F. Lett, R. Doubledee, J. Doubledee, W. c: a nd, J. Parish. e " 5 0 Bova (cup er specie), open for four-oared boats Vve lt ," ,?rew iiot 'being Thames watermen or landsmen. — e Crew, consisting of Henry Clasper, Robert Clasper, 1 -, ai l l e al Clasp d Edward Hawks ; Second Crew, W. 11" e etl s ' H e a r r ' ris a o n n, F. Crocktord, A. Wentzell, and E. ; Third Crew, T. Gurney, T. Cannon, E. Lavis, J. and It. Solliday ; Fourth Crew, W. Biffin, W. Wright, tf r , i ght, J. Wait, and W. Mansell .; Fifth Crew, A. Akers, Ikth is "n, R. Bower. N. Chasemore, and A. Bower ; CA Cre w P • ven e, R. Clayton rice, Saunderson, J. Clayton tvlehl'nll4), ;A ze 01 50 soya. for sculls.—Messrs. W. Forest, Green -. L ' i ree t „." v • Watts Waterloo-bridge ; W. Pocock, Lambeth ; i;LY(.1 0 ,„:"' bankside ; T. Combes, Milbank ; R. Newel, Hor• Barr ; J . Wilson, Wapping ; J. Church, Hermitage ; Waterloo-bridge •, D. Coombes, Milbank ; J. u alltgerford ; J. White, Custom Leach, hei ' ; C. Bartlett, ditto • James Maynard, Lambeth ; kinater?, Fulham ; C. Hill, 'Hungerforl ; W. May, West- N‘irty „„ br idge, Merl o — ' o ' l , B for pair oars.—J. Harris, Bankside; W. Watts, •1 11 , r1 gerf c ,, u a ri te J. Godfrey, Strand-lane ;W. Doiwin, 01. — ; fl: Green, Lambeth ; J. Poett, Bankside; W. 1;i:•bil lI C barge House ; J. Kitlev Lambeth ; R. Doubledee, , T• Lett, Mil b ank ; ' Newel, Battle-bridge ;J. 11, 1 ' 3 ti ' ll am; R. Coo a mbes, Milbank; D. Coombes, rro'v„ -• • Wilson, Wapping-; 3. Church, Hermitage ; R. l';.eki,, Wa terloo-bridge ; . Saunders, Hungerford; W. .aittrieur;.o!lorseferry ; T. Coombes, Milbank; J. Kipping, Sh Leach , (I .„.; James Dodd, .ditto White, Custom-house ; Velto n '„ auxhall ; W. F. Braithwaite, Hungerford ; H. le Lambeth; H. Moon, ditto; J. Maynard, ditto ; C. 41 tte ; ipgerford ; G. Everett, Old Barge House ; J. Everett, Vor,i ',aMpbell, Westminster-bridge ; Flemming,. Hun t °axles Coorabes, Milbank Ca. May, Westnu . nster uria„e"nsell, Custom-house ;G. pbe ll , Westminster- AlqizE• Maynard, Lambeth. V:r ttt ers-ea t ir. he rry, fortwo pair of sculls, for watermen above Is • ' l a"k nd ge---James J. Green and J. Phelps, Fulham; .14 - so n an i and IS. Bawley Richmond; J. Kelly and Powel, C oatti n _ a n d , 6'" bet we "aage, Presented by E. Morris, Esq., for appren h r,een, it, it en London-bridge and Teddington Lock.—T. W rie -Y • H. Meesham, Richmond; . J. Castle White • P• Joi, L o p:lnce dh 00 n, Horseferry ;W. Taylor, Wes tminster; "a; Denning, Old Barge House; R. Clarence, It • 'len s ; ; Lago, Putney ;J. Brunsgrove, Richmond ; er er,. Wandsworth • White, Blackfriara ; T. Adams, smith. F,ercti ern a uch a list as the above, consistiug of the leading ultra cittet e C T , l an a n n o d t t ate n rra fb e e n ing in ni t o h st e a w ttr or a l c d iiv t e h . is great aquatic IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. N' 1 4 (4, JUNE 14 1844. Ile did not at all like the speech of his Noble Friend the l'resid , ! , t of .11. e Board Of Trade—(Liniglit t er)— and in vo?irtg--a-z-,in-it the motion of- his Noble, Friend-(Lord Mo be only slid that whilst he disliked the Clovernment mach, he liked his Noble . Friend less. — (7,.; reat ~e r.) it was said that the country should tii.on foreign natioNs for the supply of fo But, 11 ,- . woull ask the House, was it the way to 12,-.1;. , the .0011!1'N' . independent to ruin the farmers ? ( Hear, hear ) was an agriculturist, and he did not deny the int Which he had in agriculture. But he be ieve.l that, t e whole object of .the tree traders was to reduce the ,v ag,:s of the labouring people. It was the opini,in, he was happy to say, of the great body of the. lab , nirers Vita - they were better in their Present condition thaa they could be under a system of free tra le.— ( :Ivor, . hear.) His Noble Friend had re erred to the embarrassments of our commerce, with America. and had argued that those embarras ments were wing to our corn-laws and other protective 1.3-.2t was not - the !Wet notorious, that to obtain the fu oduce of Awieriea we sent out hard dollars, and .1;ot nid in exellange.-(Hear t hear, and latighter.) lie. fur one. Tv -odd never consent to a reduction of pro teeti,n to a.:Tieultaire; and he would also support the prote,,tion of the manufacturer.—(hear, hear.) The agriculturists v. e e restricted in many respects. They - were prevetite , i hs' an Act' ofsrarliament from growing tobacco.—(lie Ir, hear.) Let the free-traders take away iliac restictioos before they attempted to make the people ( . )rthi c •untry dependent - upon foreigners for the supply of food. The Earl WICKLOW 'Would not intrude upon their Lordsl,ip:, bat thought if he gave a silent vote, his motives awl reason would .be misunderstood. Be en- tirely agreed in the arguments of his Noble Friend who brouebt foi-ward this motion, but be did , not- think that the Committe maid he granted without creating great alarm - and ein')arrassment,—(Hear, hear.) -He must say, h6wever, t h t lie fully concurred 'in all the opinions of his Noble F. ice 1, and , in' none more firmly, than that ahstraJ trine; pies must always be applied with caution. There was ally no difference between th e pri nc ipl es !aid d wii by his Noble Friend and those acted upon by the present L Government. The difference was , one only as to thee. He felt that the Government was acting so wisely, that whilst he agreed with the theory of his 'Noble Friend, he was compelled to give in his adhesion to h...r Majety's• Ministers, who were carrying out the slam , theory with sound caution.—(Hear, hear.) • The Margais of LANSDOWNE rose to support the motion Of li's Noble Friend. He thought the Noble Earl who had just sat down, and the Noble Duke on the cross bench, ought to vote for this motion, inasmuch as their speeehos were both made up .of arguments in its favour Th,, necessity for this inquiry was made the more apparent by the fact that within the last five years five klistinet failure's had taken place in attempts to ne gotiate With respect to out'commerce with foreign coun tries. lie believed that the only means of relieving the comme - ce of this countryfrom its distress would be for the Legislature to place it in a state •of freedom. It was said that things which the Government had tou.:hed were in a settled state. So far from things being in a settled state, he believed that not many hours had elapsed since the person highest in authority on those snoiects declared in another place • that they were in a- transition state with regard to sugar.—(Hear, hear.) •That was -the comfortable state of settlement in which they were in. —(A laugh.) In every case wherein fitee trade principles were carried out they were followed with the best results. The question of sugar was a most important subject, and. the people of this country had more right to complain of the character of the legistation of the country in respect of it than any other subject. This country had the most extended commerce. What was the result of that ? It was that the labourer or such a country was not able to consume one-half of the sugar that was sent out to the Cape of Good Hope.— (Hear, hear.) Yet the people were told to be proud of a system .which took away from them the benefits of that extended commerce.—(Hear, hear.) How was it pos sible they could be believed to be sincere in their legis lation with regard to sugar ? because while they professed to•be gelded by . principles of humanity they yet seemed to •consider the interests of a particular class alone.— (Hear.) Bat lie thought that all due consideration shoe' Ibe given to the West India interest. What they ()Livia to do was to . facilitate the introduction of Africans into the West Indies, subject to no other con ditions than that they should not proceed to the West Indies without proper precautions being taken- to pro vide them a suitable means of transit, and allowing them free liberty to go back to Africa when they pleased. He heard with great pleasure the sentiments of the Noble Earl; and if this country arrived at a state of great prosperity, it was, as Lord Liverpool said, in spite of their prohibitory system.—(Hear, hear.) He should, w th -great pleasure, support the motion of his Noble Friend, and he recommended its adoption to their Lord ships.—(Cheers.) The Earl of WINCHILSEA said that, in the present artificial state of this country, it would be impossible to apply the principles of free trade, however well they might be adapted to a new state of society; but, borne do en as they were by. the national debt, how could they adopt the principle of free trade ? It was the duty of every Government to encourage home production ; • and he found that the same sys . tern was adopted with regard to the manufacturing , interests of other countries. They were so burdened wi•li tax s that protection was necessary to enable them to pay th rsa taxes. In his opinion the home market and the colonial market would be amply sufficient to main tain their prosperity ' without any reference to the foreign trade at ad. For this reason he should oppose . the motion of the Noble Lord. Lord MONTEAGLE replied. Their Lordships then divided, when there appeared— Contents— Preseilt Proxies 37 - 75 Not Contents—Present Proxies 94 —I 84 Majority against the m0ti0n..... —lO9 The Vinegar Duties Bill then went through Oosn. mittee, after which their Lordships Adjourned. 110 USE OF COMMONS. June 13. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'clock. The Gl.►'gow and Coatbridge Railway Bill was read a third time and passed. Petitions ag.tinst the Bank Charter Bill were prese,nted by Col. Sibthurp, Mr. Allis, Sir John Trollope. and Mr. *a I lam. _ • DISSENTERS' CHAPELS BILL. • Petitions against the Bill *ere presented by Sir H. Tnglis, from Anglesea, and other places; by Sir R. Phil lips, and Sir George Staunton, from Hampshire. COI,VILE presented petitions from Derbyshire against the Gilbert Unions. Mr. G aIiNE presented petitions from Hampshire to the same effect. Mr. IT presented several petitions against the iisient,ma' Chapels Bill. II AIL STORMS. Captain I'OLIIILL gave notice that on the 2d of July he should ask love to bring in a Bill to exempt from the payment of st'tmp duty all policies of insurance on Canes and farming stock against damage by hail. POST-OFFICE. Mr. T. DUNCOMI3E gave notice that, to-morrow, he should preient a petition from certain parties, complain ing of ti►e opening of their letters at - the Post-office, and praying for redress. C ORN- L AWS. Mr. P. BORTIIWICE presented nineteen petitions from places in Worcestershire against any alteration in the present system of corn laws. CHARITABLE TRUSTS BILL. Air. C. BERICELEY wished to know from the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State for the Home De partment, what had been the cause of the delay with r.-gard to the introduction of the Charitable Trusts Bill? It would be in the recolleetion of the House, that the Right llon. Baronet had promised that the Bill would be introducel by the Lord Chancellor in another place. Three wet ks had elapsed since then, and no steps had been taken with regard to its introduction. If the Bill were delayed till July, when the House was thin, he should feel it his duty to throw every obstacle in the way of its passing. He wished to know when the Bill would be introshieCd.? Sir J. GIiAIIAM said that the Lord Chancellor was entrusti.d with the Bill, and he hid every reason to be lieve it wiaLld l e proceeded With forthwith. Sir G. GREY . ,wished to know whether the Govern ment had any intention of passing the Bill ;. and, if so, .at what time it ~ vould come beore the House ? Sir J. GRAB:AN' said that the power of introducing Bills was in the hands of the Government; the power of passing them re;ted with the House. It was impossible for him to Will in What period the Bill would come on. Mr. dIIItISTIE stticl that the Bight Hon. Gentleman had not onli . realised that the Bill would.be introduced, 4 4 t . intention of the GOvernment that it g l im ild_he..passed :dtiring; the - Present session; And he wished to know whether there was any ; chauge in the in• tentions of the Government .with respect to the passing of the Bill 7. • _ _ Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the power of passing Bills rested kith the House. If there was any change in the intentions of the Government, it arose from the cireurastalice of the delay in visaing the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill. Mr. T. DIiNCOMBE said the Right Hon. Baroriet had told them • chat the Bill was to be introduced by the Lord Chancellor in the House of Lords. Now, nothing that occurred" in - that House could be a reason why .the Bill should not he introduced before the House of Lords. Sir GRAHAM could only repeat what he said before. The Government were desirous that the Bill should be passed,' but it was in the power of that House to decide whether it should pass or not. Mr. Cit A VEN BERKELEY asked when it was pro bable that:the Bill would be introduced. Sir J. OR :MANI said that the matter was in the hands of the Lord Chancellor, who had prepared a Bill on the sub,;e:t, and who would introduce the Bill which he had prepared into the House of Lords forthwith. Mr, BRIGHT wished to know when. the return of the ootiOctioas under the game-laws during the year. 1843, which had been moved for at the beginning of the session would be laid on the table, Sir J , GRAHAM Oa 'Wo understood) replied that the retupnl, would ho laid on the table without delay. • hio G. GREY wished to state, with regard to the Charitable Trusts Bill, that he had no wish to offer any .obstruction :to the measures of the Ministry merely for obstr‘:ctioa's sake ; bta it .be .recol-, leeteil that this was a Bill of very ..great import- Lnee.' It • had not yet been. introduced into the House t:f Lords, it could not by any.poc . sibility be in the House or Commons before the latter end of 41 or the beginniag of August, and 1 - . q • •prat6ai,ed against the Bill 'lnez. tqiirieti through at a late Period of the session in a thin House ; and •if• it should be necessary to propose amendments in I that 80, he claimed to himself a right to propose thOae amendincnts l and to discuss gle muttep fully without being charged with offering wilful obstruction to the measures of the Government. SI - 111-TING INTEREST. Mr, L ABOUCHERE observed that there was a no tice on the paper of a motion of the Pres'clent of the Board of Trade for a Committee on the s u bj ec t of t h e shir . ping interest. That motion must give rise to dis cussion:. He trusted it. would not be introduced at a late hour. Mr. GLADSTONE would not introduce it at too latC an hour for discussion . . AMERICAN LOYALISTS. Mr. HUME wished to know when it was the intention of the Government to move for a Committee of Supply, as on the motion that the Speaker do leave the Chair, he intended to direct the attention of the House to the case of Mr. Cooper. Sir ROBERT PEEL thought that it would be better for the lion. Gentleman to give notice of motion on the subject, as he could not undertake to move the Com mittee of Supply for the purpose of affording the .lion. Gentleman an opportunity of bringing forward his motion. Mr. lIUME would then give notice that he should, to-morrow (this day), on the moving of the first Govern went order, bring the case of Mr. Cooper before the House. BANK CHARTER BILL. The order of the day for the second reading of the Bank Charter Bill having been read, Mr. B. lIAWES rose to Move, that no sufficient evi dence has been laid before this House to justify the pro posed _interference with banks of issue in the manage ment of -their .circulation. The question they had to discuss wag one of such vast importance, and involved such a number of- details, that he must at onee ask for the consideration and indulgence of the. House while he endeavoured to state the grounds on which he .ventured to oppose the further progress of this Bifl. It should be recollected that if-this plan should be rejected by the House, the plan of 1819 for regu lating 'the currency, and the principle of the Bullion Committee of 1910 would, still remain in force. , Against these plans . he intended no opposition. All that tho Right Honourable Baronet had stated with regard to the standard of value, the necessity of having promissory notes being payable, in gold, and of the necessity of maintaining the convertibility of notes, he as cordially agreed in as- the Right Hon. Gentleman himself. The Right Hon. Baronet intended that the circulation of paper should be governed by that of gold,—was it to fluctuate as that fluctuated ? The Right Ho nourable Gentleman bad so clearly explained the objects of his Bill that he need hardly refer to it ; but it wad so important that he should not hesitate to repeat the Hon. Baronet's . own words. (The Hon. Member read an extract from the Right Hon. Baronet's speech in reference to this point.) He thought these things ought to be well considered before they were adopted ; and if they were not it was the fault of the parties and not his.—(Hear.) He (Mr. Hawes) would he glad to know one single authority of practical experience that the' Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir R. Peel) could produce to contravene the opinions he had Just quoted from Mr. Deacon llume. But how did they attempt to prove the existence of this excessive issue of paper, upon which they laid the, blame of every evil, and which they made the justification of their present measure? For this asserted over issue had been made the ground for chancre in 1811, and it had been made the ground of the measure of 1819. What was the prool ( ---where was the proof in these two years of the depreciation of paper ? In his (Mr. Hawes's) opinion they were bound to show that there had been an excessive issue of paper, and that this had led to a depreciation of the eurrency and to an increase of prices. Again, he said he defied the Right Hon. Gentleman to show that the paper currency had been depreciated by those issues, and that the prices of commodities had been so affected by this. In the evidence before the Bank Charter Committee there was not a tittle of proof of this effect ; nor did he believe that any valid expression in sup port of it would be discovered in the various pamphlets and other publications upon the stibject. They had had assertions in abundance, hut they had had no facts. He, hewever, would not give them asser tion against assertion ; he would show them that the amount of circulation had produced no direct effect upon the variation of prices, and he would defy any one to prove the contrary. If it was asserted that the amount of circulation pro duced a direct effect upon prices, he asked them to show the grounds upon which they rested that assertion. Where was the evidence to prove that an increased cir culation had been invariably followed by high prices ? He would refer to the work of Mr. Tooke on prices, to show that such had not been the case. There was no proof that the variation in prices was referable to the variation in the circulation. Let them take the year 1838, when there was the highest amount of circu lation—there were thirty millions of local cir culation. The amount of bullion in the Bank was ten millions, and the rate of discount was 24 per cent. If this theory were correct, the rise in price !heu.l.,- . have been coincident with the increase in the circula tion ; but, on a reference to Tooke. it would be found that such was not the case. Then there was the theory of Mr. Jones Loyd ; if that theory were correct in the year 1984, the depreciation of Bank paper as compared to bullion, ought to have been 75 per cent. Such, however, had by no means been the case, awl therefore the Right Hon. Gentleman was mistaken in adopting that theory, for at that period the circulation had been preserved safe from depreciation. It should be recollected that the Right Hon. Baronet did not deal with the paper credit contained in bills of exchange to a small amount ; he limited bank notes only, and left other securities untouched. He referred to the rage for speculation that had prevailed in the United States, the embarrassment caused by which was remedied by compelling the banks to resume cash payments—by in fact introducing the principle of the Bill of 1819. The not limiting the amount of the paper credit issued by the country banks in the shape of bills of exchange and other securities,, would leave Ahem free to issue what would take the place of promissory notes, which would be a much more dangerous state of things. In point of fact, it was not correct to say that the coun try bankers did not regard the state of the ex changes in the management of their business more than they did the snow upon the mountain. The country bankers were governed in their dealings primarily by the state and conduct of the London money market, but ultimately by • the state of the ex changes. Now, what were the opinions once, and for many years, upon this subject of the Right Hon. Gen tleman opposite (Sir J. Graham) ? That Right Hon. Gentleman had been one of the most able advocates of the small note system, and, therefore, he (Mr. Hawes) thought he had a right to claim his vote upon the present occasion, —(Hear, hear, and laughter.) That Right Hon, Gentleman had said—" beware how you in terfere with the small note circulation—(Leud laughter)—and in the Bank Committee he had put leading questions to Mr. Rogers, with whose opinions, the Right Hon. Gentleman then acknowledged himself fully to concur, in order to draw from him upholding testimony to the value of the country cir culation. One of these questions to which the anti cipated affirmitive response was given was this:— Do you not think that any interference with the small note circulation will cause a great shock to credit ; affecting both bank er and cust omer?"—(Efear,and a laugh.) These were distinctly the opinions of the Right Hon. Gentleman, who now, however, was a supporter of the scheme of the other Right Honourable Gentleman (Sir Robert Peel), which was avowedly to end in one bank of issue. —(Cheers and laughter.) He (Mr. Hawes) had therefore now only to congratulate the Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Department on the intrepidity with which he had forgotten his former opinions, swallowed his intermediate scruples, and sub mitted himself to the wisdom and the will of his Right Honourable Colleague.—(Loud laughter and cheers.) There was no man who wished to adhere more strictly to the principle of a metallic Currency, with a paper cur rency convertible at will than Mr. Tooke. For himself, he stood by the Act of 1819. He thought no case had been made out for any further interference with that Act. No case of excessive issue had been shown. An Hon. Friend of his, who had written on the subject, was a warm supporter of the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet. That Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the assistance afforded by the Bank in the year 1839, and had quoted that as an instance of increased circulation and of increased amount of accommodation to the public. Now the fact was, that it was rather a decrease of accommodation to the public. The advance upon se curities had been increased certainly, from 9,600,0001. to 12,700,0001., showing an increase of 3,000,0004 but that increase had, in fact, been a mere transfer to pri vate securities from the bill department. The discount had been reduced to 3,400,0001., from 8,500,0001., so that there was actually a decrease of accommodation to the pub lie. By the present plan it . was intended to attempt to lessen speculation ; this it was impossible to accomplish; and when, under the proposed system, the pressure did come, it would produce a most violent action on the public credit. What had occurred in 1825 and 1839 was nothing to what mast occur under this system. If this plan were adopted a pressure would be produced upon securities which must produce a pressure upon de posits, which would necessarily cou nteract the action of the. Bank upon securities. The Bank must necessarily make a sale of its securities in order to get back its builiOn, and thus create a greater degree of pressure on the money market than existed before. The Bank would thus, in the event of such a crisis occurring as had occurred in 1825, be placed in a much more perilous position than it ever yet had been placed. The Right Hon. Gentleman was a great advocate of the corn-laws; now if he adhered to this strict management of the cir culation--if they were to have no expansion —how could they possibly maintain the corn-laws ?He would say to the country gentlemen, that if this system of banking was adopted it would create such a sense of the injus re the.t h that the ght alteration t ß io 000 of the corn-laws, that it would be impossible to os e was d bs sure con tinue them. proposed cur rency laws a u ro in ne t t h would inevitably lead to the repeal of the corn-laws ; and it ( ru C bn h dt e eh e re r s to . h ) i re present a h t e i on o n was as u st e n tm n i F wo u oa s r a r u we Th se e u p h g o e r h a t t t r i n a l d t i n o o e s d o o i r . s n — t sarily a speculating trade. It was impossible to foresee or to provide for contingencies. Whenever there was a large 'import, as a present;the payment for that import must kite provided for by bullion ; and the moment the ianount of bullion in the Bank coffers was reduced, the Bank_ would reduce its advances upon securities. As long, therefore, as the corn-laws remained, they would retain one great cause of the disturbance of the cur rency, and that would be an additional reason for press ing for the repeal of the corn-laws. He objected to anything that tended to connect the trade of banking with the State, and therefore he objected to the esta blishment of 'one single 'bank of issue. At present bank ing was unconnected with politics. No. one inquired whe ther a bank director was a Whig or a Tory, but if they established a single bank of issue it would give such power to the State that party politica would become con- netted with questions of banking, which could not fail to produce a most injurious effect, He, therefore, protested against the establishment of a single bank of issue. He did not think that the plan would work well ; and in the City of London he believed that there were many who concurred in that opinion. He understood that thirty London bankers had wriven to the Right lion. Baronet, pointing out what they conceived to be objections—and • objections which, according to the scheme he had laid down, he would be unable to meet. In the country, too, the bankers entertained great objections to it. (._)a these grounds, then, and relying on the Act of 1819, he thought the Right lion. Gentleman had not made out a case for further interference, and he should therefore conclude by simply making his motion. Mr: HASTIE seconded the motion. He agreed with the principles the Hon. Gentleman had laid down, that all promissory notes ought to be convertible, on demand, into gold. With that provision, he thought there was no danger of over-issue on the part of the country banks. The whole object of the present Bill was to prevent those ' panics which had given such a shock to the trade of this country since 1825, Now, in the first. place, they had not taken proper pains to ascertain the causes (f these panics, and he felt bound to declare it as his opinion that the Bill of the Right Hon. Gentleman contained more elements of panic than any preceding one. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was not prepared, when he received the notice gven by the Honourable Gentleman, to hear such objections as those which he had urged in his speech. Enter taining the opinions he did, the Honourable Gentleman should have moved for the total rejection of the Bill, for that would have been the more manly and consistent course. The Hon. Member approved of sound prin ciples, and admitted that the Bill contained some, but studiously resisted the putting of them into operation. The Hon. Member agreed in the principle on which the report of the Bullion Committee was founded, but thought its recommendations were injudicious. The Hon. Gentleman attempted to prove, from the price of sugar at the time of the war, that th.re was a redun dancy of currency at that particular time. Nothing could be more fallacious than such a test, and the history of the time proved it. In 1825 the country was re duced to such a condition, that Mr. Huskisson felt him self forced to declare that the country was brought down to a state of barter. Did the Hon. Member forget 1839, when, in consequence of the mismanagement of tue paper currency, the Bank was reduced to seek foreign aid, and it was doubtful for some time whether the Bank would have been able to pay in gold. If convertibility since 1819 was preseved, it was only by having a re currence to measures which pressed severely on the industry and energies of the country ; and they were bound to consider if they could not prevent a re currence of such evils. The lion. Gentleman objected to the plan, because it was not preceded by sufficient and competent inquiry. Why, what were Committees of the House engaged about for two years, but inquiring into the state of the currency 2—(Hear, hear.) The principle of the Bill presented to the Mouse by his Right lion. Friend was to have the currency of the day in a fair proportion of gold and paper, and to make it fluctuate as if the currency were entirely metallic. The Bill guarded against those fluctuations which had been so ruinous to private individuals, as well as to the na tional interests generally. The Bank of England, in order to prevent those disasters, should have full power over the exchanges; but hitherto paper issue took place from a source over which the Bank had no control, and which did nGt act in unison with the Bank. As the Bank contracted, this source became more copious, and hence the want of a proper controlling check, and the result of that want. But, argued the Hon. Member for Lambeth, your com mercial distress is not to be imputed to the state of • the currency, or to any changes that may have taken place in it. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not deny that it would be unfair to charge all the distress' that had taken place at times to the fluctuations in the currency —no doubt there were many prevailing causes that also must be taken into account on that head ; but this he was prepared to say and to maintain, that the forced expansion of the currency, at a time when the natural tendency of things would lead to a contraction, was a main and essential ingredient of those distresses from which this country had periodically suffered.— (Hear, hear.) And it was no answer to the proposit• on which had been submitted by her Majesty's Government, to say that because they could not remove every one of those ingredients, and every one of those causes, they were to be debarred from attempting to cure those evils, the existence of which was palpable, and the remedy for a considerable portion of which they honestly believed th y had it.-- in their power to suggest.—(Hear, hear.) But the llon.buraotl Gentleman (Mr. Hawes), in confirmation of the views he held, had referred to the heels of the United Stateg, and asked, was not their Currency quite convertible? He asked, was it n(4_ tkb - re the principle that the noes of the satiny cotnl,e ting banks should be payable in gold, and iet Inuit happened ? Why, this had happened : Tint, by their competition of issue, they had reduced their country to that condition in which they alike over looked the precepts of morality and the obligations of honour, and caused wide-spread ruin around--.(Hear, hear.) This was done in his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) opinion, not from a want of convertibility, but from a recklessness of competition and of issue, and which had led to those wild shemes which none regretted more—for none suffered more—than the authors of such recklessness.—(Hear, hear.) One main principle which the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hawes) had. laid down was, that Government should never be in a position unduly to interfere with, or to control the Bank in its managements and issues. This power of inter ference did not exist in the present charter, and in that which was now proposed as its substitute it was more than ever effectually guarded against, for there was to be not a quarterly, not a monthly, but a weekly return of the state and liabilities of the Bank, and this, not for the mere uses of Parliament, but of every man in the king dom, and it would then be very soon ascertained if the Bank were in any way acting under the control of _the Government.—(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") But, .aid the Hon. Gentleman, there is no evidence to show any ground far the interference of Parliament with the banks of issue. Now, he did not believe it was necessary for him to show that there had been very great misconduct to justify the Government in introducing this measure. It was enough for him (Mr. Goulburn) to prove that the consequences of the present system necessarily led to evils against the recurrence of which there was a means of guarding. He had no wish to say anything against country bankers. Though some most iniquitous transactions had come to light, he acknowledged that body to be eminent for worth and for honour. But it was not denied. by them that their operations were governed by the state of things around them,—by the wants of the neighbourhood —by the desires and the demands of the community amongst which they lived ; and that they knew nothing whatever of the foreign exchanges in the management of their issues, and the government of their conduct. Of this there was sufficient proof in the acknowledgments of the country bankers themselves.—(Hear, hear.) He would not trouble the House further, for the question had been so fully discussed on a former occasion and with such ability, that he should but weaken the force of what was then advanced were he to say more upon the subject. He would conclude, by saying, that he thought it would have been more fair and more manly too, to have attacked the measure on its principle than to have assailed it on mere minor points of detail as had been the case that evening. —(Hear, hear.) Sir W. CLAY said, though he considered the mea sure was in one or two points susceptible of im provement, yet as a whole he looked upon it as a good one, and the principle on which it was founded, he most cordially approved. lie believed that these principles were, abstractedly. sound and true, and it was most important to the country that they should be carried into practical operation. It was not necessary to deal with the theories of the Birmingham School—they were very generally rejected by the good sense of the country. Bat it was not only by them that opposition was to be offered to the plan ; his Hon. Friend the Member Lambeth was one of those who thought the Bill unnecessary. He. hoe-ever, be lieved the Bill to be both expedient and necessary. One great truth had been entirely overlooked. That was twoth e principle, no ong r t o h o a s t t s e s y t e could ms, notoe of combineconvertible th the e• o and k o d i n g t h o o f other of inconvertible paper. England would always have her full share of the precious metals in Europe. So great was their tendency to flow into Enlgand, that Mr. Rothschild said, before the Committee of 1832, that were it not for a bad harvest now and then, foreign loans, or mining speculations, he believed that the wealth of the world would centre in England. The action of the currency fully justified the proposal of the Bill before the House.—(Hear.) He should not trouble the House with details in support of these general principles. He contended that neither the Bank of England nor the country banks had regulated their issues according to the exchanges, and that a measure to regulate them both was necessary. His Hon. Friend was quite mistaken in what he had stated with regard to a suspension of cash payments in America. There was by the law of the States as complete a convertibility of notes into cash as in this country. It might be asked then why was it that cash payments were suspended ? From the same reason that it had happened in England; there was an excessive rage and competition of issue, and the law could not enforce an impossibility. He con sidered that the Right Hon. Baronet was entitled to the best thanks of every lover of his country for bringing forward this measure. Mr. NEWDEGATE opposed the motion. He trusted that the remonstrances that had been made by the country bankers would be duly attended to. Of this he was sure, they were well worthy of attention. The result of the adoption of the proposed system would be, that the system of credit would displace the system of currency, and small bills would necessarily take the plac place of theThs as This swohrie would give chwwoouuldbe to money circu lation.additionalwithdrawnfro w a l e ar istocracy r by enhancing of m it e s re va w lu elth lt . would The p eci re n s s e t n i consti tute p virt o u fi aristocracy of birth, the aristocracy of talent. and the aristocracy consisted of those elements. There was the aristocracy of wealth. Each of these sections of the w aristocracy had its failings. The aristocracy by birth indolent and overbearing, but it was generous. The aristocracy of talent was intolerant, but the aristocracy of wealth was the most oppressive that could exist. It regarded human beings merely as units of production, and if it were to become the sole aristocracy, it would become so oppressive that the p e opl e would be obliged to look out for means to defend themselves against it. The United States afforded au example of a democratic country growing into an aristocracy. The aristocracy there was an aris tocracy of talent. The country was guided by dema gogues ; but they bad been very careful to guar& against the aristocracy of wealth. Day by day they took additional protections against it, by enacting its re peated subdivisions, and by enlarging the franchise. , If they adopted this measure it would tend to enhanee the standard of value more than anything that had precede& it; and when, in their future troubles, they turse4 'roux" 1