The Sun. — London, England, 1803-02-08 00:00:00

IMPERfiIL P'ARLIAVIEN7. HOUSE OF PEERS. MONDAY, FEB. 7. entmstr.. were heard relative to the Scotch Appeal —Sir ilfred Lawson, 13art.. v. R.. L.. Ross, tsq. and others, viz. Jklessra. Alexander and Grant at some length, on the part of the Alipellants,— After which their Lordships postponed the furiber hearing till Wednesday. . - LordS . DOUGLAS, NAPIZIL, and GLASTONBURY were iworn and took their seats.. ! pursuant to an Order of the House, the Clerk read the E xtrael 'from the Regulating Mt, relative to the choosing Members of the East Indialudieature; after which it was ordered, on the motion of 'Lord WALS . INc n AM, that all the Lords present do form wCommittee to-morrow, tir the pur pose of inspeelit!g , the,Lists of Names delivered in, and re porting the same to the House, tic. Mr. Aslivr, from the Bank of England, presented cer tain Accounts relative to the reduetion of the National Debt for the year ending 31st of January last; together with an Ac count of the proposed Expenditure for the ensuing .Quarter.. Some routine and .private business was As - posed of, after which the House adjourned.till To-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. MONDAY, TED. 7. .LFAVE of absence was granted to Sir GIoRGE SHUCKIIURGII EVEt. YN, for six weeks, on account of hiS ill state of health. PRIVATE PETITIONS. lily. I~ILL/Allr DUNDAS rose, in pursuance of his notice, to move that the time for receiving Petitions lit private . llills might be enlarged from friby next to Friday se'nisight. He said, that the House-were constantly in the habit of prolonging the time for ,receiving those Petitions, and it was from the belief that the House would 'upon this occasion adopt a similar Measure, that several per , sons, particularly in Scotland, had delayed sending up their Petition;;,; he, therefore moved, that the titer rhnultd be .enlarged till Friday se'nnight. 67r IV. ELFORI) opposed the Motion : ,he con tended, that the House ought to adhere to the Re. solution it had made, and if that Resolution pressed particularly hard upon iiny person, it was open to hip to present's Petition, for leave to present a .Pckition, He said, that Parties could not be taken by surprize, because, when the Order reipeeting Private Petitions was made in 'November last, he gave, notice that. he should oppose any subsequent Motion to extend the-time. DuNpAs said, he did-not know that the Hon. Baronet had given such a notice. CIIAN6ELLOR of the . EXCHEQUER said, he supported the Motion, although it was wick some reludance,•because it was important chat when the House had made an order respe&ing Pcti. tions for private. Bills, that they should adhere to it. But.as there were many cases in which the House had undoubtedly departed from that rule, and aipersons might be led , to suppOse that the House *I would skew the same indulgence upon this as upon other occasions, 'perhaps it might be as well not to skew extreme vigour upon the present occasion ; but he wished to give notice, that next Session of Parlia. ment he should certainly oppf: , se any Motion of this kind. 'The Motion was then agreed to. , BREACII OF pittylLEC Ate, TIERN.EY said, he rose to state a fan that had been represented to him, which he conceived highly insulting to the Privileges of the House. An Order had been obtained from the SPEAKER dire&ed to the Town Clerk of the City of Coventry, requir ing hitimo grant to the Agents of Messrs. BIRO and Wong (Petitioners against the Return for that City) an inspeCtion into the books and Minutei of the Corporation, and that the answer of the Town Clerk to this application was, " th a t :lh e s',ouhl consult the Corporation," Mr. Tr earlEy unless a very satisfa&ory account was receiv ed by the Post of to-morrow, he should make a Motion on the subjeft. Mr. 'Tr tiItNEY . also read a hand hill signed *by the Mayor, calling a meeting oldie pets 'us summoned to attend the Committee. 'Mr. • 7EFFEOS said, he hoped the iiotiie would tirmit him, though no Motion was before theta, to say a few words in vindication of a Gen. tleman whose condo& had been most grossly mis. represented. Upon the receipt of the SC FAKER'S • Ord .q., the Town Clerk did not say "he Would consult the Corporation," as stated as . •the ground of complaint ; but. that, as his Partner, in whose care many of the Papers required were, was in London; It was not possible to comply instantly with the Order of, the SPEAKER' ;. that he would send for the Gentleman in whose custody the Papers were, to return' immediately, and in the mean time give notice for the'Corporation to meet on Monday morning at ten o'clock, who he had no doubt would immediately dire the Order of the SP RAKER to be complied with. 'As a proof to the House of the earnest,desire of the Town Clerk, not to delay a proper attention to the Order of the SPEAKER, an Express war sent the same evening, there being no post on Satord.ty, desiring, the, immediate return of the Gentleman who was in London, to Coventry, and he did on the receipt of the Express, leave I,lndon the 'Same, day, travelling all night for the porpose•of attending the meeting appointed .for "the Corporation on Monday morning. Mr...TEETER y 4 said, he' trusted these Gets would convince the noose that every attention had been paid to the EAKEIOS Order, which the most zealous sup porters of thrPrivileges of the House could wish. The SHERIVPS of the CITY of LoNOON brought, up a Petition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and • common Council Of the.. City of London, stating. that the Market of Smithfield was much too small and anii inconvenient, being the only Market for Cattle . 1:r the Cities of -Lon* and Westminster, and' prayingjor leave to Wog in a Bill to enl a r ge the same. The Petition was ordered to. be referred to a Committee, consisting of the Members of the Citiei of London and Westminster; the Members for the County of Middlesex, and' the Horne CoUnties. The Snt n t rite of LONDON presented another Pe, tit ion from th e Coriporation of London, setting forth the great inconvenience resulting from the high Price of Coals, and praying for. a Bill to make some regulations in that • Trade. This Petition was kefetted to the same Committee as the former, The &MUFFS of LONfoON presented anotlti* Petition from the Corporation of. London, praying for Parliamentary Aid, for the completion of the . Works .carrying on for the Improvement of the Port of London. As this was an application for Public Money, it was necessary to have the approbation of His Majesty. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he was authorised to give that approbation, it being , understood that the money advanced by the Public was to be considered as a Loan, and that ample provi'sion was to be made in the Bill for its re payment. The Petit'inn was ordered to lie on the Table. • . A Per= from the Bank of England presented an Account of the number of Bank Notes in circitla don, pursuant to the order of the House on Friday last. . NTWASLETT presented Accounts from the Commissioners for the Redemption of the National Debt. They were ordered to lie on the Table. • The Order of .the Day was then read for resuming the adjourned Debate respeaing the Petition corn. plaining of an undue Eleaion for Drogheda, in Ireland.—The Clerk having read the circumstances ,of the Case from the Journals, The SPEAKER said, that the Motion before the House was, that the Order for hearing the said Pc. tition should be discharged. Mr. BRAGOE said, that this Case did not ap. pear to him to be one of much difficulty. The A 5 upon which this question turned, was one which the House had always construed with great striEtness. .The only point to be ascertained was, ~whether the Petitioner had complied with the provisions of the Al in question, and as it .appeared from the statement of the Sr EAZ Ex, which had been read from the Journals, that the Petitionr had not" entered into a recognizance in. the manner pre .scribed by the Aa.of Parliament, he should cer-• tainly vote for the-Order being discharged. The Order was then . discharged. .BANK OI ENGLAND. The CHANCELLOR of the RXCHEQUER said, he rose in pursuance of the notice which, had been given during his temporary, absence from that House, to move for leave to bring in a Bill to con. tinue an Mt of last Session of Parliament, for con tinuing the Restriction on the Payment in Specie by the Bank of England. He assured the House, that he felt considerable reludance and regret in making' this Motion, for he was extremely anxious and den. patient for the arrival of the period when 'all the proceedings at the Bank should return to ' their old course, and the payments be made in , specie, as usual. It was not necessary in making this Motion, that he should recur to• the original grounds upon which the Restridion on the . Bank was founded ; nor was it necessary for him to enter into any consideration, Whether the original Restriction was, or was not well founded ; though, upon that subject, he bad not the slightest doubt in his own mind, still less did he suppose it would be necessary now to require that which was necessary when the original Restritlion took place, namely, an Inquiry into the Sufficiency of the Bank to dig. charge the Obligations it had entered into : be. cause, upon that subject, he believed, there was not a particle of doubt in the mind of any man whatever. There were Many persons who doubted of the propriety of the original Restrittion upon the Bank, who might now, with perfect coniistency, feel great difficulty in interposing for the purpose of 'discontinuing the operation of, such a Bill. Men might have thought that the original measure was .neither wise nor expedient, but its having been adopted, there might be reasons for its continuance,- . to which they were bound to subscribe. 'This was the case in the last Session of Parliament : many Gentlemen who declared that they still retained their objedions to the original proceeding, stated, that they would not then vote for, discontinuing the Restridion. The ground on which he moved for the Restriction .in the last Session of Parlia. ment was, that the state of the Eichange between this Country and the Continent was such, that a considerable quantity of specie was going out of the kingdom. Since then, it was true, the course of Exchange had altered .very much in oUr favour. At present the Exchange between this Country and Hamburgh was nearly at par. The EXchinge with Amsterdam was rather unfavourable, and therefore the argument was not, he admitted, so strong as it was last year ; but still it was one that applied itself to the discretion of the. House. It was true, that no specie was now likely to go from this Coun_. try to Hamburgh, and very little to Amsterdam, but, on the other 11411(1010 specie was coining into the Coun. try, anti therefore he asked, whether, under the cir cumstances in which we were now placed, when it had been found necessary by the Authority of Parlia ment, to permit Country Banks to issue a large quantity of small ; Notes, that they .should be ex. posed to the inconvenience which must result from the demand that would be made upon them for spe. cie, when there was no influx of bullion to enable them to meet that demand He believed that no doubt could be entertained with resped-to .thispro. position, that it would be better that the Restri ction should continue a little longer than was necessary, than that it should be discontinued a single day too soon. He was very far from wishing. to tnder-rate the inconveniences that resulted from the restric tion on the payment of specie by the Bank of Eng., land ; there undoubtedly were some, and that to Which he had adverted was certainly .one. of the greatest ; but still they were only inconveniencies, whereas the consequences that might be produced by suddenly taking off the restriction, might be most serious indeed. Hi wished that the restridion should continue until that period when the course of Ex. change appeared to be firitily.and steadily in favour: of this Country ; a'perioti which he looked to with the most sanguine hopes. The causes that produced the unfavourable state of Exchange between this Couut ry and the Continent, were such as he might reasonably hope were not likely to occur again. We had, on. fortunately, eltperienced three years of severe Sear. city, and it appeared from documents which he had seen, that no less than Twenty Millions of Specie had, in that 'Period, been sent out of the Kingdom for the pt tchase of Corn. This was a drain which ° he thought not very likely to occur again: it watt almost unexampled in the hiitory of the Country. But besicliothis, there was another great drain upon ' our Specie, in consequence of large Bruns that were • necessarily sent abroad for the payment of the Army anti. Navy; and even the flourishing stasis .of our CoMmerce, great as it was, had not yet beeksuf. Relent to bring back bullion into the country, and 'to turn the Exchange in our favour. But when we saw this Coinmerce was so rapidly indreasing,'and that all the other causes to which he had alluded had ceased to operate, it was . very natural, that the . Course of gxchan g e would be soon highly favour.. able to this country and that would he the time when the House could call upon the Bank to resume its yayments in specie, without danger. or 'neon ventence. Upoh these grOunds (after moving that the Ads of the 376, 38th, and 42d . of the King be read) he moved for leave to bring in a - Bill to continue the Aft of last Session. --But, be. fore- he sat down, he .wished to advert to what was said last Session, and to the wish then ex. pressed that a Motion of this sort should be pre ceded by an Inquiry. The same arguments that applied upon the former, .did not 'apply t:o the pre sent occasion ; it was then necessary for. the sake of Public Cred it, to prove to the Public, that the means of the Bank were sufficient for the discharge of all their obligations: but, at present, no doubt whatever existed - upon the subje4l---if there had, an inquiry, undoubtedly would b right. If a Com. mittee were now appointed, the only thing they could do would be, to inluire into the Course of Exchange, and a Committee could have no other means of ascertaining thiS fgt, than those which were in the power of every Member of that House, and Committees were in general appointed' to ascei. tain fads, and not'solely to deliver opinions. With respc to the other ground; narnely, the great issue of. Country Bank Notes, the House could not want information upon that subje& because they were issued under the authority of an Ad 9f the Legi's. 'wore. Mr, TIERNEY said, that the Right Hon. Gen rlem..n had stated correelly that there were many Gentlemen , in that House who had originally voted against the Restridion upon the Bank, who might now consistently entertain doubts upon the pro. priety of taking off that Restridion. 'He con_ leased he was himself in that clan of persons ; he certainly had not made up his mind upon the sub. jed, but was open to convittion' by any arguments that might be adduced. But he did not so perfedly agree. with the Right Hon. Gentleman in the latter part of his speech, namely, With iesped to the propriety of appointing a Committee for the pur. pose of inquiring into the stilled. For however familiar they might be with the business of the Bank, yet a more important subjed never claimed the attention of that House. He begged now not to be considered as. giving any opinion upon the propriety or impropriety of continuing the Re. strklion upon the Bank. He only wished, that if the Restrilion wai continued, the . Journals of the House should contain the reasons upon which a mea. sure of such importance Was founded for if there was any subjen upon which the speech ninny individual, however high in office, or respedable,in talents, ought not to be made the ground or theprOceedings of that House, this certai n ly w as t h e measure , . The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated, that the Exchange ,be tween this Country and Hamburgh was at par ; chat he believed was the fad ; hot that circumstance would not appear upon the Joarnals, and Posterity would have no means of knowing upon what gro(als a measure of so.much importance was founded. The Legislature had gone on from time to time conti. ruing this restriction, but it was. now nearly six years since this House had any Report from the. '.Bank respelling its situation. The last Report was in 1797, and Since 'then the House did not know.what hail been the proceedings of the Bank. He would not now'enter into a discussion, whether the itoppage•of the cash payment had been ,beeeficial • or otherwise in 'a pecuniary point of view to this Country, he would merely confine himself to the grounds upon which - the Right Hon. Gentleman had introduced this Motion. The Right Hon." Gentle. man had stated, that the Exchange'between this COuntri and the Continent was about. par, and upoo that single ground he called upon the House tore. new the Restraining Bill. The Right Hon. Gen tleman was correct 'in his statement of the fan,. but still he would contend, that that Tan was no ground whatever to justify the House - in passing this Bill. The Right Honourable Gentleman ,had said, that he' felt great reludatice in bringing forward this measure, aad he' gave him', 'full credit for. the truth of that assertion, he would. even go farther, and say, that he believed that the Right Hon. Gentleman'did not intend, till verylately, to propose a renewal of the Bill. fie did not, in say. ing this, mean toaffed having any private know., ledge of the Right Hon. Gentleman's intentions. But he believed that the Right Hon. Gentleman di,l not, till lately, make up his mind io propose a re. newal of the Ad, because, otherwise he would have given a longer riotiee Of his intention. At present Parliament had only 21 days notice, as the present Bill would expirt on the ist of'March. It appeared to him, that much stronger grounds aught to he laid before the Hollse, before thesk.tulopted chili measure.' It was not pretended that the Course of Exchange would cagy money out of this Country, far it was stated to be at par—there was now no danger of In vasion, for we were in a state of profound Peace—it was not asserted that there was any thing in the state of foreign politics that called for this measure, nor was it asserted; that if the Restridion was taken off, that penple would . press upon the Bank, because while the Exchange was at per,: or favourable to this country, people could have 'no 'inducement to hoard up specie.. None of these grounds had been advanced, and the one upon which the motion rest:. ed appeared to hint not sufficient to warrant the mea sure. Indeed it appeared to him to be a kind of duty which the HouSe owed to theCOuntry, to shew that the Bank had been examined, and to prove that they had been making ready so recommence their cash payments as soon as they should receive permission, from Parliament. Was the Bank ready to open ? Let it be stated:—Did the Bank appre hemi any danger from resuming its cash payments ? There. was none crated. He must therefore, presume that the Bank could resume, its' payments, but he had a right - to require that the same evidence • bola be laid before' this House th It was given upon a former occasion. The Bank stared•LAtmer• ly that they were ready to pay as used, if Parlia ment would permit them. Why Was• there not A • similar declaration now I They also inked on that occasion, that their cash a n d bUlliOn had focreased fivesfolil since the Order in Council, 3o that upon the ordinary calculation, it must have amounted to .about Six Millions.' 'There was an ,opinion enter tained by some men whose opinion upon such a Sub. , jefp was certainly entitled to respect}, that as long as the Restriction on the Bank was maintained, so . long the" Couise of Exchange would be against thin Country; be did not say he entertained that opinion, but it was one that was intitled to consideration, and he should therefore like to have some infors mation upbn the subjed.. , It was not, he supposed, apprehended 'that the Course of Exchange would tura against this Country ; indeed - nobody who Lad heard the very pleasing description which the CH AN* CELLAR OHile EXCHEQUER had given of nor ation, could entertain such an opinion. It seemed to him very unwise to stop the payments of the Bank tiporfany one ground, because whenever that ground occurred in future, it would create alarm, aml oceasion• a run upon the Bank. If the Restritlion was_ continued merely because the Course of Ex change was not favourable to this Country, When ever at a .future period the exchange turned against us, it would create an alarm, and occasion a nut upon the Bank. There was but one observation more which he wished to make, and that was, that • the Bank did not seem willing to 'do any t hi ng for the Country, if it put them to any expence. It might .put them to expence to buy Bullion, but why should they not be put to that expence ? They had made profit enough daring the Restriction, and they • ought to let the Country share a little with them. Much had been said about the absence of a Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pry* whatever he might think about that G ent l eman , upon other subjects, he wished be was now in his place, because he was sure, inr him, he should find a powerful Ally-..be. • cause he was entitled' to suppose, that that Right Hon. Gentleman would do now, what he had done upon a former occasion. , He begged pardon of; particu larly House for having ta k en up so much time as he did not mean to make any Motion, as he did not know what were the sentiments of the House upon the subjed. The mode ,of proceeding , which appeared to him most eligible upon this sion, would be, to pass a Bill for two Months, and in the interim to institute a Committee to inquire into the subjed. Mr. FOX said, that if it was now intended to continue the Restridion for a .considerable lengt h of time, it would be right to institute a Comrnittee of Inquiry. He Was happy to find that the Right Hon. Gentleman felt a degree of impatience to Pat an end to this Restriction, and to enable the !ba ts" return to its,old system; and therefore he 11 10 4 13 ' that the House ought not to be precipitate in Ps'" ing a Bill to continue the Restridion for any grea t length of time; It seemed to him as if the House was coming to a kind .of general principle, that whenever the Course of Exchange was ,at par, " against us, that then it would be inconvenient for the Bank to pay in *Kele; 'He could not but think that it would be highly dangerous to lay down that as a general maxim. As to whit had been said about the drain . which had b een oc casioned by the money wericied the Pa r " chase of corn, or rl,e sending cash abroad . to P a Y the Atmy and Navy, these cause; no longet exist" ed, and consequently the argument did not e xuPenthedaseenritea,:h3 case.--With — c i o t h n ‘ f •C a e confessed r a e W e d a o s t f o o c i n e j l y s t of B e t ny but he did not alto,gethet concur in the arguments which the Hon. Gentleman had drawn from it.' The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated, that the ex portation of so much specie had turned Co the•urse , of Exchange against this Country ; now he waa. in. - dined to think that if all the corn which wart ported had been paid for in Specie, the ExchanP would not have been so much against us. Sonie. people thought the unfavourable state of Exchang e was owing to the Restridion : he did not mean to. say he had embraced that opinion, but it Was one which he wished to hear discussed.—'-It was true that Committees .of Inquiry were instituted to ascertain fads, and not to fiirm opinions: that was true generally, b ut not always. He thought there wer e . opinions in this case with which the House ought to be acquainted, particularly those of , the Bank Direr- . tors. The Bank stated on a former occasion, that they cou ld riot were ready to resume t h e i r pa y ments, if Parliament wpuld permit them ; he suposed that declaration' was still in force and if so, p he could not conceiv what reason there was no w to continue the Itestrie. tion. If the Ba n k f e l t no app he reall rehensibn from the: renewal of its Cash . Pay ments, comprehend how t h e measure was necess ary for the Country. , With regard to the conduit of the Bank . of England since the suspension, he did not know. any thing about if, but he did not entertain the re motest suspicion of any' thing improper, for he was_ firmly convinced, that it was owing entirely to 10 prudent conduit of the 'Bank Diredors that no we° consequences had ensued from the Restriction ofFai . mint in Specie. If he was founded in this opini°"'• undoubtedly the Country were indebted to the Direr' • tors of the Bank for their good conduel, but still it was right that the House should have an opportunitY • of inquiring into t h e subjed. It might be Said; that, the Bank Directors had t h e whole management O ' the Bank before the Restridion, as well as noel bin the cases were very different, because then they, atted without the int er f erence o f P ar li a M en t, .a" were therefore alone responsible.; hut that was not the case since the Restraining . An had taken place. He saw no r eason f or p i tt i ng t he wh°l • Credit of the Country, and a ll t ha t drpende" upon it, into the hands of the Bank Directors ; he t had no doubt, but th at t h e y were per f e tly and able men, but surely, no w i se ma n would Rot such confidence in any persons, unless he had the means of examining their condnet. If there was anY apprehension of the consequence of taking offthe Re stridion suddenly, it might b e d one gra dually.. He • understood, that small Dividends were paid in Specie, and he saw no reason why small , Notes might not be paid in the same manner, which would. gradually' lead to the complete payment in Cash. 'As to the apprehension, that persons would press upon the