The Sun. — London, England, 1845-04-29 00:00:00

IIvxPERIA.L PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, April 28. Their Lordships met at Five o'clock. The Earl of RIPON brought in a Bill to amend the relating to appeals from India. The Bill was read a drat time. MAYNOOTII. Several Noble Lords presented petitions against the proposed grant to Maynooth. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from a Pres byterian congregation at Loumore, which the Noble Lord said complained of the horrors of Popery, but nevertheless in favour of the grant. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT. The same NOBLE LORD presented a petition, numer ouly signed, complaining of the Act passed last session for abolishing imprisonment for debt. The Duke of RICHMOND presented petitions to a similar effect from Sherborne, Shaftesbury, Cowes, Gosport, Leamington, Southampton, Portsea, Penzance, Bradford, Tunbridge, Devizes, and Andover. They were referred to the Select Committee on the Bill. MAYNOOTH. The Duke of CLEVELAND presented a petition from South Shields, in the county of Northumberland, in favour of the grant to Maynooth; and from several places in Scotland against it. The Bishops of Down, Connor, and Dromore pre sented several petitions from Leitrim, Tipperary, and several other places in Ireland, against the grant to Maynnoth. L'INION OF THE SEES OF ST. ASAPH AND BANGOR. Earl POWIS -presented petitions from Coventry, from towns in Devonshire, Dorsetshire, and Wiltshire, and from several places in Wales, against the union of these two sees. MAYNOOTH. The Bishop of EXETER presented several petitions from Silverton and several other places against the grant to Ntaynooth. TREATMENT OF CRIMINALS—NEWGATE. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE wished to bring before their Lordships' notice a matter which, in his opinion, involved a gross disgrace to the judicature of the country. Ills authority was only that of a newspaper, and he thought that it was not only calculated to excite an irre ligious impression, but to induce that which would be dis creditable to the law, and injurious to the administration of justice throughout the whole community. He alluded to a matter which had occurred at the gaol of Newgate only yesterday. In referring to this case be felt bound also to refer to a circumstance which had oc • curred at the offices of public justice at the town of Aylesbury only the other day, and in doing so he was anxious that the authorities of the great city of London would imitate so good an example. He found by the newspapers that the public yesterday were admitted to what was called the condemned sermon in .fie 4ate. The report stated that in consequence of the arrang,ments of Mr. Cope, the governor, the public wer:• admitte l by tickets, and that not the slightest con fdsion had ensued. The public were admitted at a quarter past ten, and at fifteen minutes after that time the prisoner 'locker was admitted and conducted to his vat. Shortly after that, Connor, who stood charged with a similar offence, was conducted to a seat opposite to that of Hecker. He was happy to find that the au thorities at Aylesbury had acted with a much more judicious discretion, in abiding by the terms of their in structions. They had not been willing to pander to a prurient curiosity; and he was grieved to observe that the same discretion had not been exercised in the pre HOUSE OF COMMONS, April S. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hear. NEW MEMBER. Colonel AusTIN, ho was introduced by Sir E, Filmer, and another Hon. Member, took the oaths and his seat for the western division of Kent. Oa the motion of Mr. BARRY BALDWIN, the Totnes Markets and Waterworks Bill was read a second time. On the motion of the same HON. 3/EMBER, the Lords' Amendments to the Sparrow's Herne Road Bill were agreed to. The North Wales Railway Bill was read a second time. Lord PALMERSTON presented a petition from Sligo in favour of the Dublin and Mullingar Railway Bill. On the motion of Mr. TATTON EGERTON, the Runcorn and Preston Brook Railway Bill was road a se cond time. Mr. GODSON presented two petitions from Kidder minster against the proposed grant to Mayneoth. Sir T. HEPBURN presented several petitions to the same effi.ct. Colonel VERNER presented three petitions from the county of Down against the grant to Maynooth, and complaining that the petitioners had no Protestant re presentative in that House. On the motion of Mr. WAKLEY, the Clerkenwell Improvements Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. AINSWORTH brought in the London, Bir mingham, and Sheffield Railway Bill, which was read a first time. The London and Norwich Railway Bill was also brought in and read a first time. MAYNOOTH. Mr. W. PATTEN presented petitions from places in Lancashire against the grant to Maynooth. Mr. A. CILAPMAN presented petitions to the same effect. Sir E. FILMER presented twelve petitions to the same effect. Mr. CHRISTOPHER presented several petitions against the Maynooth grant. Lord C. MANNERS presented three petitions from places in Lancashire against the rant to Maynooth, and also a petition from Walton, in the same county, praying for the repeal of the malt tax. Colonel ROLLESTON presented petitions from Norfolk against the grant to Maynooth. RAILWAY DEPARTMENT OF THE BOARD OF sent instance. It appeared that Connor, who was corn nitted for a similar offence to that for which Hooker was aoout to suffer, was conducted to a seat opposite to that occupied by the convict, and near to the pew of the Ordinary, the Rev. Mr. Davis. In the course of that Ree. Gentleman's discourse, to whose observations he melnt, not to offer the slightest objection, and upon the I.o tilment of his duty he could make no remark which was not commendatory, Mr. Davis had stated that, since the crime fur which the convict was about to suffer, another crone had been perpetrated, for which another young man Stood before them, committed upon the oaths of r:vveral individuals. Now, he was far from assuming tha , The Rev. Gentleman had intended to exceed his offi.l.ial duty. He was far from saying that h. , had any sympathy with the thtestable crimes with which these unfortunate individuals were charged, but he must say that the implication con veyed in the observations of the Rev. Ordinary of New gate were calculated to be of great prejudice to the pri soner, who, by the law of England, at any rate, was presumed to be innocent. He had no objection to public punishments. Such punishments might be necessary for the ? general welfare, but he did object greatly to those exhibitions which the report of the newspaper said were more like theatrical spectacles than solemn ceremonies of the judicature. For these reasons he should, therefore, feel it his duty to bring the matter formally before the House. Lord BROUGHAM would beg to thank his Noble Friend fur having brought this matter before their Lord ships. lie thought there was nothing more detestable than that the infliction of justice should be anticipated by a shameful and prurient inquiry into the conduct and the feelings of the individuals who were placed in that dreadful position to which his Noble Friend had alluded. lie quite agreed in the principle that the trial should be as public as it was possible it could be. He quite agreed that the sentence should be carried into effect, if it were possible, before the eyes of the whole world ; but it formed no part of the sentence—it constituted no part of the punishment, that the dark cells of the prison shoul I be invaded, and the privacy of the prisoner should he intruded t pon during those solemn hours which elapsed between his sentence and his execution. There was no necessity for this violation of feelings ; it was necessary neither for public justice nor private satisfac tion. It was requisite to no end, and was in no way called for by the import of the sentence. And what made it worse was, that where it was meant for a pu nishment it operated as a reward upon that class of cul prits to which this unhappy man appeared to have be longed ; inasmuch as it gratified the morbid thirst for notoriety, which appeared to' have almost amounted to madness, in the case cf the unhappy man who suffered that morning. As a member of the Corporation of the City of London, he would take the liberty of giving a warning to that Corporation of the risk they run of en dang,ring their charter by allowing persons to be ad mitted to these condemned cells. Lord STANLEY said there could be but one opinion with regard to the extreme impropriety and indecency of the proceeding which the Noble Lord had alluded to. On the part of the Government there could be no objec tion to the motion of the Noble Marquis ; but he must remind their Lordships that the Noble Marquis had made his statement upon information which was not authentic. He would, therefore, suggest the propriety of his post poning the motion until the Government had had an opportunity of communicating with the City authorities. Nothing could be more indecent than this collection of persons to witness the appearance of the convict during the deliverance of the condemned sermon, and so tar from its having been an act of reli gion, it appeared to have resulted in a matter of display. Two years ago, his Right Hon. Friend, the Secretary for the Home Department, felt it to be his duty, on a si milar occasion to the present, to make a representation to the authorities of the city of London. Upon that oc casion he understood his Right lion. Friend received an a4surance that such scones would be put an end to. If the Noble Marquis would consent for the present to withdraw his notice of motion, he would undertake that hin Right Hon. Friend the Secretary for the Home De partaient should make a precise inquiry into the actual facts ; and their Lordships might rely upon it that the Government would exercise all the power it possessed to put an end to such scenes. The Duke of RICHMOND reminded the House that the condemned prisoners were entrusted to the sheriffs of the city, and they were the parties to blame if any party was to blame in the matter. He would suggest that an Act of Parliament should be brought in, pro• hibiting the attendance at the chapel in Newgate of any other persons but the prisoneo and officers connected with the gaol. Lord DENMAN said it was a question of the greatest importance, and remarked that when a condemned pri sonerattended the chapel at Newgate, to receive the last admonition to be given him in this world, the attendance should be as private as possible, and particularly when a person charged with the crime of murder, and who had yet to undergo his trial, was amongst the congrega tion. He could not altogether justify the expressions of the chaplain. They all knew what effect such expres sions had on the mind, and frequently it made the party to whom they were addressed give vent to feelings which might induce a stranger to infer guilt, although the party might be perfectly innocent. Now, fur in stance, a juryman might have been present when the sermon was delivered, and might ho not carry the im pressions which the scene and behaviour of the prisoner had produced with him into Court ?—(Hear, hear.) Lord CAMPBELL expressed his entire concurrence with what had fallen from his Noble and Learned Friend. But in his opinion such scenes as th ose were a ; and if the violation of the law parties . who exhibited those criminals wer e indicted, be puni s h e d of for so doing. In th e p l ay , might e as s c c e e r n tni eof ng a murder was introd uce d, f or th e purposeg of ascertaining the guilt of the King, and it appeareu to him that those exhibitions NI ere got up for a similar purpose. Lord REDESDALE informed their Lordships that ou in the what took place in the morningto , ,k place evening. The Noble L or d a d vert ed to an account a hick had appeared in an eveni ng p a p er , i n w hi ch it w: t s stated that the reporters were admitted to the unfortunate prisoner, who was told of their presence in something like the following terms:—" Here a re t h e reporters present, if you have anything to say to them." The prisoner replied, " I do not feel collected enough to say anythicg. If I had known they were coming, perhaps I should have been enabled to say something." That was— if he had been properly warned that these gentlemen had intended to have paid him a visit, nc doubt he would have been prepared for another scene.—(Hear, hear.) The Marquis of CLANRICARDE then consented to withdraw his motion, and the subject dropped. RAILWAYS AND THE BOARD OF TRADE. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved fora return, showing the number of Irish railways the Board of Trade had sanctioned, and showing whether the lines favour ably repored were the best that could be marked out, or whether they were only the most favourable of those that had been submitted to the Board of Trade. The Noble Marquis too k occasion toas ask and Cashel Railwaywhether he was cor r e ctly informed, that the Dublin Company had violated an agreement which they had ,entered into with the Irish Commissioners of Woods and Forests, relati ve to the Curragh of Kildare ? The Earl of DALHOUSIE consented to the return, and said that he believed that such an agreement as that stated did exist, and that the Company had, within the last few days, undertaken not to disturb or enter upon the Curragh of Kildare. I J The motion was agreed to, several Bills were advanced it stage, and their Lordships adjourned. THE SUN, LONDON, TrESDAY MOTtNING, APRIL 20, MB. testant foundations and the Piotestantconstitution of the coun try, that they should not be assailed from the only quarter to which those concessions had been made. He thought he did net mistake the Right Hon. Baronet when he said that he had held out expectations of the fullest and most distinct character to the people of this country that he would determinedly adhere to the fundamental articles of the union, which pre served her revenues not only to the English church, but ex tended the same to the unitedchurches of England and Ireland, and which covenanted to extend the same privileges and per manency for ever to the national Scottish Church. He did not rise to make these remarks from any invidious feelings, for none could exceed him in sentiments of respect and sincere admira tion for the Right Hon. Baronet. In the removal of the Roman Catholic disabilities he ( Mr. Law) had given the Right Ho nourable Baronet full credit for his avowal that he had removed these disabilities becaase he thought such a course would strengthen the Irish Protestant Church instead of weakening it, neither did he doubt the sincerity of the intentions with which he had brought forward this unhappy scheme. He regretted that the Right Hon. Baronet had not at an a arlier period divulged his scheme of Irish academical educatiot. If the grant had been withdrawn altogether from the College of Maynooth he should have been happy to assist in any arrange ment founded on just and equitable principles, by compensa tion or otherwise, to satisfy the parties interested in that ar rangement. He had no ungenerous feelings towards the lf they avowed that agi tation Ca tholics of Ireland. On t he contrar y , for every shilling with drawn from the College of Ma y noo th , he should have been happy to could havenotb givene put them down fou rfold.l3y force, and that they must have recourse to concession, he (Mr. Law) would ask how they could come to any other conclusion than that the power would no longer rest with the Right Hon. Baronet to grant or to withhold further conces sions? If they admitted this principle, it was the first fatal ex i o , the they step taken to educate a l l the Roman C atholic priesthood , at the this c country hurc h Church—when, t i h n e ste eadduocfatior Churchr of m ntiesnt extension, n f e xpense of the State. When t h ey knew that there was no tax imposed Established found the slaughter of bishoprics —was it not too much that when they saw Protestant endowments —sees well endowed and in their favour the affections of the country —was it not too much that the national Church should be deprived of its bishoprics, and a sum larger than their revenues, by this proposition, granted to the education of the Ro man Catholic priesthood in the College of Maynooth ? He felt that it was irnpoysible they could rest here if this prin ciple were conceded. He did not say that the measure in terms and expressly provided for tire endowment of the Catholic Church from the revenue of the State, but if the House acceded to it they could not, at a future time, object to a proposition for the permanent endowment of that Church. He, therefore, looked upon this Bill as the last battle field of the British Protestant constitution.--(Hear, hear.) The petitions which had been poured upon the table had been disregarded, but he thought that those rho had so much con fidence in the possible duration of that Parliament for two years to come, as to treat in such a manner these whom they professed themselves to represent, would find themselves mis taken.—( Hear, hear.) All that he ( Mr. Law) had observed was conclusive to him that, although the motion of the lion. Member for Sheffield had failed the other night, confiscation would be again recommended.—( Hear.) The motion of the Hon. Member for Sheffield had been defeated by a majority very singular in its elements. It was composed to a large ex tent of those who had reason to complain of the course which the Right lion. Baronet had taken in respect to the principles in which they had heretofore supported 11;m, and who stepped in at a critical moment to save him from dagradation—if it were possible for so high a character to be degraded.—( Hear, hear. and a laugh.) He (Mr. Law) was sure that whenever the Church was threatened, and the Protestant foundations of the empire were in danger, the old supporters of his Right Hon. Friend would rally round the Right Hon, Baronet, who, with such troops, had so often conducted them to victory. In making these-observations, he assured his Hon. Friend that lie had no &mist of his sincerity:—(Oh, oh, and a laugh.) Although his (Mr. Law's) proposition was adistinct negative to the resolution, still he could have well understood a pro position to have been brought forward for the endowment of Maynooth, in which it might be consistent in him to concur. No doubt the professors of the College had some right to ex pect that for their lives at least the grant would be continued. He would say, give them such a grant freely, liberally, and generously.—(A laugh.) But then it should he said, at the same time, that from this moment all connexion between the State and your College, as an e cclesiastical foundation, must terminate.—( Hear, and a laugh.) But he would join with his Right lion. Friend in the establishment of lay foundations, strictly so, where Christians of all denominations would receive education, and have open to them alike the prizes of merit, and the treasures of science and literature. But this measure had raised another Catholic question, under more painful cir cumstances than ever had been agitated before. He was sure that a m ajority of the petitioners who had agreed in the uni versal prayer against this grant would support a measure for the general education of the population of Ireland. —( Hear, hear.) He would have the Irish lan- guage taught to every class of the Irish people—high and low.--( A laugh.) It had been said . that the Bill was not a permanent endowment, and that the Act could be repealed. Why so could the reformation be reviewed, and the Act of Union or the Act of Settlement be repealed. But he would say more of this grant—that it conferred upon the trustees of Maynooth a saleable interest.—( Hear, hear.) Instead of being a measure of conciliation, it would only be food for fresh agita tion.—( Hear, hear.) New he for one denied the right of any Minister to convulse the country by such means.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon, Gentleman concluded by moving that the report should be read that day six months. Mr. VERNON SMITH had imagined, when he read the Hon. Gentleman's notice, that he meant to raise some ques tion as to the source from which the m iney was to be received, but, after all, the Honourable Gentleman had merely recom mended that the grant should be withdrawn, and the sustenance of the College left to the voluntary contributions of the Catho lies themselves, although for fifty years they had taken no measures fur that purpose. The Hon. and Learned Gentle man had said, on his reputation as a lawyer, that the trustees would have a saleable interest in the grant; but he (Mr. Smith) would like to know what the value of Maynooth shares would be in the market 7—(A laugh.) He thought that Hon and Right Hon. Gentlemen around him had not acted in Ills matter in the wisest manner. He thought they had been too readily captivated with the apparent liberality of the grant, and that they had pledged themselves to the support of the Government before they had considered to what they were led. More friends had been sacrificed on the Oppssition side than on the Alinisterial, on this question, and he did not think they ought to have run such risks for such a measure.— ( Hear, hear.) There were two monstrous evils in the eccle siastical affairs of Ireland—one was, the state of the Pro testant Church as it existed, and the other the state of the Roman Catholic Church as it existed. He did not know xhich was the greater evil. He did not know whether the Church of the State was too much overpaid. or the Church of the people was too much underpaid. But he thought. it would have become the Liberal party in that House to have first con sidered what they were doing before they gave their support to this measure.—(Hear, hear.) They ought to have consi dered whether it would not be possible to reduce the Church of the State so that it should not be so offensive to the people. The Protestant Church in Ireland was a deformity and an eye sore to the people of England. It was indefensible in its pre sent condition, and there was no statesman in Europe that would not regard it as such. He thought some bold, dec , sive, and conciliatory line of policy toward= Ireland should have been adopted, and if so the bugbear of "No Popery" would not have been raised. The "bit by bit" reforms in religion were pernicious, whilst the same sort of reform in politic; might be desireable. As regarded the principle involved in the measure, it had been over and over again recognised by the Legislature in providing religious instruction and educa tion for our colonies. To urge the foolish argument that what was done in the colonies should not be done at home, resembled that sort of argument used by the woman who was accused of connubial infidelity. She boldly alleged that the Haut pas was committed beyond the Cape. His reason for wishing to endo v the Catholic priesthood was, that it would give them an interest in the welfare of the empire. lie would wish to see the Catholic clergindependente of their fl ieks, so that when a scontented was prevatent thei might tell their flocks, , t we will not join with you—our breed ao longer depends upon your caprice —the State is inclined to be just, and we will stand by It, and, on the other hand, if the State was oppressive, they might say to it, we will no longer accept of your money—we will again th row ourse l ves on our faithful flocks for support." He must admit that this was the first time that Parliament had voted money for education with out inquiring what the nature of that education would be. He would support the measure as a new measure arid as a new Bill, because he thought it was the index of a better line of policy towards Ireland. The Maynooth measure was, after all, a poor thing. Much had been said about the favourable manner in which it had been received in Ireland, but he owned he could not place much reliance on that sort of disposition which we were told, by one post, denounced Sir Robcrt Peel, and that, if he came to Ireland, even Majesty itself would hardly protect htm • , and by the next post that the Conciliation hall resounded with cheers for Sir James Graham. He did not see how the improved mode of education in May nooth could favourably influence the minds of the Catholic clergy in Ireland towards the State—( Hear)—if nothing more were to be done for them; on the contrary, he thought that after having receised an expensive and elegant education, they would feel the difficulties of entering upon the duties of a poor parish much more keenly. The Right Hor.. Baronet would be highly culpable if, after raising so fierce a "No Popery " cry, and after stirring up so much bigotry, he did not persevere in this course of conciliation, and bring in large, comprehensive and healing measures for the Catholics of Ireland. His reason for voting for the grant was, that though he considered it a small measure i t had achieved two great ends—it had terminated the religious question as regarded the Legislature, and established the precedent of Roman Catholics receiving State money for their Church. lie would not re proach the Right Hon. Baronet with inconsistency, though he thought it would have been a great saving of his political repu tation, if he had in 1829 retired from the Cabinet and allowed others to carry it. Sir ROBERT PEEL—But would you have carried it if you had not left office ? Mr. VERNON SNIITH—The Right Hon. Baronet might have come down as an individual Member and supported the measure, which would have been much more decorous. He hoped, how ever , t h at in giving his support t o o this measure, he might v, nture t o hope that the Right lion. Baronet would not stop at that ; that he would not propound great principles merely for the purpose of effecting, sma • IL ends, but that regard less of all opposition from this side of the House or that, he would persevere with those measures of conciliation towards Ireland, which would be the most certain means of leading to the peace an d prosperity of that part of the United Kingdom. Lord NORREYS id he did not think that this mea sure had yet been properly sifted• The people of this coun tr y had been l e d b y the representations they had heard to believe that the measure now before Parliament, in reference to endowment of Maynooth, came before the House for the first time, instead of means having been taken to convince them of what was th e rea l fact — nam ely, that it had been before the House every year for the last fifty years, and that the proposi tion now before the House was really nothing more than a re-assertion of that principle with the details carried out upon a more liberal and extended scale.—(Hear, hear.) Every person who knew anything of L eland must know, that the Roman Catholic religion had been, and was, and would he, the religion of the majority of the people of that country ; and was it not theref ire plain that any vote against this measure would be looked upon by the Irish people as a vote against their religion. The question appeared to him to be regarded by those who opposed i differed uestioa of religion or no religion. Now, though he from the tenets of the Roman Catholic faith, he would much prefer to have the Roman Catholic reliaion than no religion at all.— (Hear, hear.) He had heard it objected, too , t hat this ea g ant was to be paid out o f the, i nco me-tax ; but even if it were, surely so small a sum could rot affect that tax. But the ab surdity of such a pr o p os i t i on was so plain that he would not further dwell upon it. A s to the objection that had been raised to it, that this g rant s hould not be made to the excld there for sion of the Dissenters, he would beg to ask how soul a moment be any comparison maintained between the two ? In Ireland they had a Protestant establishment, and the Dis senters were also paid there, and yet great opposition was compara raised to a measure which proposed b ut a very small reat ity tive suns for the education of the clergy of the g of the people of that country .—( Hear, hear. ) major He had also heard it objected, that the Right Honour able Baronet, who had brought forward this measure, ought to have been the last man in that House to have done so, upon the ground that it was inconsistent with his usual course of policy. Now he (Lord Norreys) begged to say that he had been for the last fifteen years a Alember of that Howie, and, TRADE. Sir G. CLERK stated that the documents which had been laid before the Raiway Committee of the Board of Trade were now deposited in the clerks' office of the House. He thought that the best way by which they could be rendered acceptable to all the parties interested would be by referring the several documents to the Railway Committee upon the different Bills to which the docu ments related. He should, therefore, move that the documents be now so referred. Mr. HASTIE presented seven petitions against the grant to Maynooth. Colonel ACTON presented several petitions to the same effect, from Wicklow. Several petitions were presented against the proposed Maynooth grant. Lord BERNARD presented several petitions from places in Cork against the increased grant to Maynooth. Sir J. HAMMER presented a petition from Beverley in Yorkshire against the grant. Mr. S. GRAWFORD presented petitions from various places in England to the same effect. Mr. HINDLEY presented 30 petitions against the Ilaynooth grant from the following places :—The inba bitants of Damerham and Martin, Wilts; Chatteris, Cambridgeshire ; Shaffington, Bucks ; Spettisbury, Dorset ; Sturminster Marshall, Dorset ; Heul lan, Denbigh ; Palham and Waxham, Nor folk ; Protestant Dissenters, Node Chapel, Isle of Wight ; Foulmire, Cambridgeshire ; Park-street Chapel, Cotteris, Isle of Ely; Blackwood, Monmouth shire ; Trefyam, Pembrokeshire ; Carzard, Cornwall ; Newton Chapel, Staidburn, Yorkshire ; Ministers meet ing at Alton, Hants ; Oatwood, Surrey ; Calvinistic Methodists, Northampton Chapel, Clerkenwell ; Bap tists, Chatteris, Cambridgeshire ; Uckfield, Sussex ; Aberdare, G lamorganshire ; Wesleyan Methodist Association, Stockton-on-Tees ; Norley Tabernacle, South Lincolnshire; Appleby, Westmoreland ; Lynn, Norfolk; Besde, Cornwall ; Holmes Chapel Cheshire ; United Association, Avon-bridge, Stirlingshire. Sir R. INGLIS presented a petition from a parish in the county of Ayr against the Government measure with respect to Maynooth. It stated that endowing- the Roman Catholic priesthood would be to support idola tors, and to render them partakers in the sin of idolatry. —(Laughter.) He also presented petitions from several parishes iu the counties of Suffolk, Perth, Down, and Stafford, to the same effect. WINWICK RECTORY BILL. Sir R. INGLIS, on the report on this Bill being pre sented, took occasion to eulogise the conduct of the Rector of Winwick, who, he stated, endowed seven parishes out of his rectorial income.—The report was received. COLONIAL BISHOPS. Mr. COLLETT put a question relative to the pay ment of Colonial Bishops, which was not audible-. Mr. HOPE, in reply, said it was true Bishops had been appointed at Colombo and at New Brunswick, but neeither were paid fur by the people of this country. Theßishop of Colombo was paid for by the colony itself, the Bishop of New Brunswick by a fund raised in this country fur the endowment of colonial bishops. Captain BERKELEY wished to know whether it was true that the Commander-in-Chief had ordered the officers of the two regiments of Life Guards, to provide for the payment of bands as in the line, and if so to lay the copy of such orders on the table of that House. Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said it was quite true that such an order had been issued. He would ascertain whether it could be laid on the table of the House, but at present did not think it was a matter in which Parlia ment should interere.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. WAKLEY asked Sir James Graham if he would consent to a motion for a return of a copy of the answer addressed to the Committee of the National Association of General Practitioners by the Council of the Royal College of Sup;eons. Sir J. GRAHAMI said that in a day or two he would lay on the table of the House the correspondence to which the lion. Member referred. THE BRAZILS. _ _ _ Sir R. PEEL said, in answer to a question from Mr. Grimsditch, that the information which her Majesty's Government had received upon the subject had been but very recently received, and had been handed to the Queen's Advocate to report upon, and when that report should be received, he would take care that the lion. Member should be made ac quainted with the nature of it. Mr. MILNER GIBSON said he had had many com munications upon the subject just referred to by the Right Hon. Baronet, in consequence of which he had placed a motion upon the paper to the effect that he would move for copies of the correspendenee that had passed between the authorities at Rio de Janeiro and the Government of this country on this question; but if there was any objection to the production of them, he would not press his motion. However, this he would say, that great alarm had been felt as to the position of their commercial relations with Brazil ; and it was felt that the great difficulty of their recent relations bad been owing to the unfortunate policy of this country towards Brazil upon the Brazilian sugar question— (Hear, hear)—and, in fact, until the Government should retrace their steps on that question, nothing else that they could do would have the effect of re-assuring, the British subjects in that colony that they were replaced in the full enjoyment of those privileges which they had a. right to enjoy.— (Hear, hear.) However, as he had stated, he would not press for the correspondence, if there was any objection to it. Sir R. PEEL said ho had before him a document is • sued by the Brazilian Government, in which it was stated that British subjects in that country should be restored to the fullest enjoyment of all their privi leges. He could not see the expedienoy of producing the correspondence alluded to by the Hon. Member. Mr. HUME said he thought those evils had resulted from the Government of this country interfering in the internal regulations of other countries.—(Hear, hear.) He felt satisfied that the Government would act wisely by rescinding its acts in reference to Brazil, and in leaving every country to carry on its institutions as it deemed fit. He was sure that if any other country attempted to dictate to this what its institutions ought to be, he was sure that this country would reject such interference immediately.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT said he had a letter in his hand which he had received that moment, an extract from which he would read to the House. This letter was directed to a firm in the City, and it stated that a gen tleman, named Harvey, who died on the 11th of February, left a will, under which a person named Castell was appointed to act as executor. At the time of this gentleman's death he was loading a vessel, and had put into it about 1,5001. worth of goods, for the pur pose of liquidating a debt ; but a judge claimed to have the property, which was actually sold, and the pro ceeds placed as a deposit in his court. A great inconve nience and loss was occasioned by the power now assumed by the Brazilian authorities, and in this instance the property which was valued at 1,5001. bad been sold by the Judge for 900 L He agreed in the observations which had fallen from the Honourable Gentleman the Member for Montrose, but he would submit that this was an evil which was occasioned by that combination of monopolists under whom the Right Hon. Baronet had to some extent sub mitted his Government This was characterised as an unfriendly act of the Brazilian Government ; but h sho w uld co e u n ld ter i t t ain be any ezr e c n te d d ly t f ha l t ings that tow G a o rd ve s rn th m e e m nt , to w countryhiblee, o i; n wa d a e s i; froamracttreard—i trading ef fairly y h e withar) tthhi the Brazils—(Hear, hear)—and in the district from which yppraeocvrepinrtt-emetaaerh which ee they all believed he came there was the greatest possible dread that g ere det million utfhrrnoo muhgi their trade with the Brazils , which amounted hs t ta h t e tteh c no o ti u ßo r ni s g e thot w t b hif i e :l s i oßo.raze i l s in trade,t jeopardised remuhadaynwdo a u n I d d and a halfw t e o nda a n taken. do w to H en deavour to make some wise and salutary regulations with regard to it.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BROTHERTON said he had received several representations from the place which he represented, on the subject of the oppressions to which the merchants were subjected to in Brazil, and great alarm and ap• prehension was entertained as to the security of their property and interest in Brazil.—(Hear, hear.) He was glad that her Majesty's Government had paid attention to the subject, and he trusted that something would be done to remedy the evil.—(Hear, hear.) Sir R. INGLIS trusted that her Majesty's Ministers would not follow the advice of the Hon. Member for M o ntrose. There was n ot a sacrifice that the ptople of this country were not prepared to make — t here was no in crease in the price of su g ar, or any other article, that they were not prepared to hear—if there were a rea - sonable certainty of stopping such a crime as traffic in slav , ry. Mr. WARBURTON could not believe that the people of this country were so insensate as not t) see the effect of the returns which had been made to that House with respect to the slave trade. From those returns it appear( d that the numter of slaves which the British cruisers had arrested in their progress .....-.. . from Africa to the Spanish colonies or the Brazils not amount to more than three per cent. of the whole number carried from Africa to the opposite coasts of the Atlantic. When the British public looked at those reports, they could not but see that the measures which had been taken by the Goverro rnent for the suppression of the slate trade were totally inefficient-. Lord J. RUSSELL said that in the former treaty entered into by the present Government with Portugal, a treaty of trade and navigation had been entered into, giving protection to the lives and property of British subjects. He wished to know if, in the treaty isith Brazil, the Government had acted in a similar way? Sir R. PEEL said that attempts had been made to complete the treaty in a similar way, and he had every reason to believe that by that time the signatures of the plenipotentiaries had been affixed to the treaties. Mr. LABOUCHERE said that that was not an answer to the question of his Noble Friend. The question was, whether the separate treaty would be signed before the other had expired on the 18th of No vember. Sir R PEEL did not anticipate any difficulties in the way of signing the treaties. Mr. SHEIL thought such a desultory conversation tended to no certain purpose. He was of opinion, there fore, that a resolution should be moved expressive of the opinion of the House with regard to the impolitic course pursued by the Government in its negotiations with Brazil ; and if no other Hon. Member would propose such, he (Mr. Sheil) should take an early opportunity of doing sc. The conversation then dropped. MAYNOOTH. _ Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD said that be was afraid that he could not, consistently with the orders of ' the House, bring forward the motion he had given notice of with regard to Maynooth till the report of the Com mittee of the whole House were brought up upon the Bill. He would, therefore, take another opportunity of bringing it forward. Mr. HUME presented several petitions against the grant to Maynooth. Lord CASTLEREAGH presented several pet;tions against the grant, and also several in favour of it from parishes in the county of Down. Numerous petitions against the grant were presented by Mr. G. Duncan, Mr. Hindky, Mr. Evart, Lord San don, Sir A. Brooke, and Mr. C. Berkeley. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented several petitions against the grant, and one of which was signed by 1,800 persons, who expressed their surprise that the public voice was not attended to in the House.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) They prayed the House to reject the grant, and to consider the propriety of discontinuing the connexion between Church and State.—(Hear.) Mr. M. GIBSON presented a petition from the mayor, aldermen, common-council, and seventeen magistrates of Manchester in favour of the grant, and expressing the opinion of the petitioners that the welfare of the whole empire was dependent upon the conciliation of the Irish people.—(Hear.) he HoN. MEMBER presented also five petitions from religious congregations in Manchester against the grant. Mr. FERRAND presented three petitions from places in the county of Tyrone against the grant. The peti tioners had requested him to present their petitions, because they had no confidence in their own repre sentatives. Sir R. PEEL had been requested to present a petition very numerously, and he believed very respectably signed, from merchants, bankers, and traders of Liver pool, in favour of the grant to Maynooth College. The RIGHT HoN. BARONET also presented petitions in favour of the grant, from Presbyterians in the county of Antrim. Lord INGESTRE presented a petition against the grant to Maynooth ; and petitions to the same effect were presented from several parishes in Norfolk. MAYNOOTH COLLEGE BILL. On the report on the Maynooth Endowment Bill being presented by Mr. Greene, Mr. LAW said that he rose to offer to the considera- , ---- --- ;on of the House his motion to negative, if possiWe, the proposition of her Majesty's Government, that all the charges, expenses, and burthens of the measure affecting the question of Maynooth College, be defrayed from the Consolidated Fund, and that the permanent State endowment of that Roman Catholic Col lege be drawn from the taxes of the people of this country. He repudiated both these propositions, and threw himself on the indulgence of the House in stating such reasons as he might be enabled to advance why the consideration of these resolutions should be indefinitely postponed. When he looked at the magnitude of those interests which had been af fected, he felt that all hope and expect ition of an adequate discharge of public duty on this question should fail. In proportion as the principles involved in the measure were of vital importance—in proportion to the universal interest which the people of England and Scotland took in it, directing all their energies to the matter under the consideration of the House, he threw himself on the kindness and indulgence of the House to allow him, in as concise a form as possible, to state the grounds of his opposition, and the reasons for which he was now, and for ever would be, opposed to the measure. It was desirable that the principles of the Bill should be kept in view, and these, he apprehended, were twofold. First, that it was desirable to make a permanent endowment in favour of the , Roman Catholic priesthood ; and, secondly, that the empire should be taxed in order to pay a permanent charge for such education. The latter was the main f'..tittre of the measure—the permanent State endowment of an establishment for the forming of the Roman Catholic priesthood. lie (Mr. Law) was of opinion that the State should enter into no such alliance, and deprecated the principle of taxing the people of this country for any such purpose. This measure was introduced by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government to that House, and introduced, too, under circumstances that could not be approved by those who sent the supporters of it here, whe sat at this side of the House ; but this measure was supported and carried through the first reading owing to the aid which the Right Hon. Baronet had received from those who were usually his political opponents. In like manner was the Bill presented to the House a second time, arid a second time was it suscessful through the aid of political opponents ; and it was most important to observe that a great portion of those who supported the Bill did so for the purpose of extinguishing the opposition to the Bill. Then, with respect to the Bill itself, the House was left in the dark as to how many colleges there were to be established, or whe ther they were to be for academical education. The Right Honourable Baronet had, up to this moment, maintained the most profound silence. He had not given any information as to the nature or extent of his plans, and would not do so until he had succeeded in procuring the ap probation of that Horse that the mosey was to be paid out of the Consolidated Fund. The House knew not whether the colleges were to be for religious education in separate col leges, or whether there were to be scholarships or fellowships. In fact, they were asked to take a step that would be a leap in the dark. History, in recording the transactions of that House would have to record that the Right lion. Baronet threw himself for support on those who usually opposed him.—( Hear.) And even if he gained a triumph, if triumph it could be called, it was gained by following and not by leading the Noble Lord opposite into one of the lobbies of the House. One hundred and eighty Gen tlemen on the other side of the House voted for imposing this tax on the people of England for the permanent endowment of the Roman Catholic College of Maynooth, and if they once sanctioned that principle it would be impossible for them here after to retrace their steps. He did not object to the amount of the money proposed to be given to Maynooth, but he ob jected to the principle of paying one sixpence from the taxes of this country for the endowment ( - 1 that College.—( Hear, hear.) He was influenced by no unkindly feelings towards his Roman Catholic fellow - subjects, but in prin c ipl e h e was opposed to the endowment of the College of Maynooth. When he said that he was influenced by no unkindly feeling he trusted that he might fairly have credit for that declaration. He respected, as much as any man, his fellow-subjects opposed to him in religion—he had the most perfect and the most unbounded respect for his Roman Catholic fellow-subjects, for it was impossible for any liberal mind to feel otherwise when it was remembered that for conscience' sake they had for so long a period of time suffered deprivation of the highest offices of the State. But he took a broad distinction be tween commiserating our Roman Cathoils fellow-subject=, and the principle of endowing the Catholic Church. It was to retain that broad distinction that he ventured to trouble the House with his observations on this occasion. Why did not the Right Hon. Baronet act upon the principle which he had recognised in the Charitable Bequests Act of last year ? By the 15th clause of that Act, power was given to the Roman Catholic Church to benefit by bequests for the purpose of building parsonage houses, and endowing Roman Catholic ' places of worship. Instead of that, the Right Hon. Baronet now proposed to establish an irrevocable grant to the College of Maynooth. This involved a principle mischievous to the last degree. If, several years ago, the College of Maynooth had been supported by the voluntary contributions of the Roman Catholics themselves, it would have been now a flourishing establishment, and there would have been no neces sity for such a Bill as the present. The Roman Catholics of Leland were distinguished for,their liberality and their charity. They were moreover in the possession of the most abundant means. Means which enabled them not only to provide for the sustenance of the Roman Catholic clergy of Ireland, but also to send Roman Catho;ic clergymen educated in Ireland as missionaries to other countries to propagate their doctrines there, instead of retaining them in Ireland to assist in the edu cation of the Catholic people in that country. He felt it to be his duty to oppose this attempt to burden the Consolidated Fund with their maintenance for the education of the Roman Catholic clergy of the Colle g e of Ma y nooth. If the grant were withdrawn altogether , he believed that the Roman Catholics of Ireland would take th e maintenance of the College into their o" i .,n ir ' show the extent of th be said that this h z a ea i l d s a , n a d n o d f w t h o e u i l r d c , h b ft y r ity. maintaining It m ig might sub scription had been continued fir so many years that it had created expectations of its continuance in the minds of the authorities of that College, which would be disappointed if the fund from which they had for so many years derived assistance were suddenly done away with. It would not become him to suggest to the Right Hon. Baronet the mode in which he might meet this difficulty, but he (Mr. Law) thought that the Mi nister who hail not scrupled to draw from the Consolidated Fund—from the taxes paid by the people of Great Britain—a perinanent allowance fir the endowment of the College of May neoth, need not have hesitated at severing the connexion between the Protestant Constitution and the Ro man Catholic Church of Ireland. He might have brought forward some such prop ssition as the following l— it appeared to him (Mr. Law) that the Right Hon. Barone t might have s a id, w i t h muc h b e tt er g race, " We have passed the Catholic Emancipation Bill —we have relieved from civil disabilities our Roman Catholic ---"" • fellow-subjects—we have as mitted them to equal• • rights and privileges with ourselves, and that the period had now arrived when State expediency de manded that concessions should be made also in this particu lar." lie should have added, that it a pp eared to him on the whole right that, w hil e make, at the same • conceding this measure, he should time, the broadest • distinction the subject of the Protestant E possible on Catholic Church. In thus departingsta.blisfhment and the Roman principles—in changing hisviews, and ro surrenderinghis earlier political views and those principles to an urgent expediency,le thoseust at least engage that on a Church question which regarded during that. time, he had never heard the Right Hon. Baronet say any thin., inconsistent with such a course.—( Hear, hear.) He ( Lord Norreys) would ask where were now tliose Hon. Members of that Howe who used language out of that House in reference to this measure, which they had not the manliness to use within it? He should say for himself that he had never, when on the Opposition side of the House, given his vote against the grant to Alaynouth. because he lookect upon such a course as unchristian, and, therefore, he would beg to say that he would now give the proposed measure his must cordial and unqualified support. —( Cheers. ) Lord DA LMEN Y said he intended to give his vote in favour of this measure ; and, in doing so, he wished to explain what some persors might, perhaps, term his apparent incon sistency. In his opinion, this proposed increase on the grant to Maynooth was the emanation of an enlightened ministry, and one which would prove most beneficial in its results to Ire land, while, on the other hand, its rejection would be attended with the most serious consequences. He could not hesitate to give his support in 'avour of this measure, because he looked upon it not only as one of the wisest, but most judicious pieces of legislation that had ever been passed in reference to Ireland since the removal of the Catholic disabilities. He had heard it said that this had been given, not so much as a boon, as an indi cation of a continued series of conciliatory measures. He quite concurred in that, for his own firm conviction was that conces sion should be continued to be made so long as a grievance re mained unredressed in that country.—(Cheers.) Some Hon. Members ha - I said that even for this measure Ireland would not be grateful, but was it because belays' was ungrateful Eng land should be ungenerous?—( Hear.) But he denied that Ireland was ungrateful, for they had already seen this measure hailed with gratitude as a boon in that country.—( Hear, hear. ) But even if it should not be, why had the Irish people not a right to it ? How could he consider that they had not, when he remembered how his forefathers in Scotland resisted to the death the attempt to force upon them a strange faith ? ( Hear, hear.) Much had been said about the agitation that had existed in Ireland ; but had there been none in Eng land? And why should that which had been deemed a virtue in England be termed a vice in Ireland ? Why should what was regarded as resistance to oppression here be termed tumult there ; or why should love of liberty here be attempted to be put down there?—(Hear, hear.) He would not utter one word that might be considered as partaking of partisanship, but this he would say, that if this act on the part of the Right Honourable Baronet opposite bad been deemed by some as an act of apos tacy, he would say that it was an apostacy from bigotry to truth, and from doubt to consistency. And the Right Hon. Baronet noes came boldly forward, resolved to stand or fall by the case he had made out. He ( Lord Dalmeny) would not further detain the House than by saying, that he felt convinced that many of his constituents were as hosti!e to this measure as he was friendly to it, but he would ask, was he to think of his , own private or personal interests, when those of the common , wealth were at stake ? No ;on the contrary, he would say:that even if his vote upon this measure were to deprive him for ever of his seat, perish all his aspirations after ambition, rather than , not act with justice to Ireland.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Sir C. DOUGLAS, who spoke in a very low tone of voice, was understood to say, that he would support the measure. He said he could see no difference between supporting it now, and supporting it for the last fifty years, except that the pre sent measure promised to be more efficacious. They must look upon the Catholic Church as the church of the majority, and as such it was entitled to support. This was one of the reasons why he supported the 14i11. He believed it would have the effect of cementing the union between England and Ireland, which it was their duty to maintain. He had pre sented petitions against this measure, and many from his constituents. He could not, however, support the prayer of those petitions, for he considered this Bill as nothing more than an honest attempt to carry out a spirit of conciliation to Ireland. He should give the Bill his cordial support. Mr. HAWES, for one, would not take upon himself the responsibilisy of supporting a proposition to make the question a subject for annual disCussion. He had given the present measure the fullest consideration, and he had come to the con clusion of giving it his support. Ireland was a Catholic country, and as such it must be governed. This measure was opening up a new c curse of policy in this respect to Ireland. He believed that it would lead to a great reform of the Pro testant es ablishment in Ireland, an I that reform would cement the union between the two countries, and would give security to both. This Bill was carrying out the principle of the ap propriation clause and he believed that the people of this country would ere long view that measure with much greater favour than they did now. As a money grant this measure was quite trifling; but he believed that it would be large in its effects. An objection had been raised to this grant on religious grounds, but how such a line of argument could be supported he could not understand. This country had supported schools in India where Christianity was net professed. This country had made grants for conducting the schools of the Hindeos, and various other grants of a similar nature might be found on reference to the records of the East India Company. He be. lieved that it was too late to object to this grant on religious grounds. The grant must be looked upon as for educational purposes. The College of Maynooth was for the education of both the clergy and laity. He could not either see how this grant was to be objected to by the advocates of the voluntary principle. He could under stand an objection from such a quarter, if by this grant it was proposed to better the principles that were to be inculcated at the College of ,Maynooth, but this was not attempted • conse quently, this grant must be looked upon in the light of ? private endowment, and therefore in accordance with the voluntary principle. He believed that this Bill was far better calculated to advance religious principles than any measure which had been proposed for several years past. On these general grounds, lie should give the measure of the Government his warmest support. Mr. HINDLEY respected the sincerity of the Hon. Gen tleman who had just sat down more than he admired the argu ments which he had advanced. He believed that the Hon. Gentleman's constituents would not support him in the course he had taken. The Hon. Gentleman said he would not sup port an annual discussion of this question. Why, this declara tion was in opposition to the principles of the Honourable Gentleman himself, formally advanced by him, with re spect to annual Parliaments. The argument against the annual grant to Maynooth would apply as strongly if used against the proposition fur annual Parliaments. He did net think that he and others who opposed the measure could be accused of intolerance, for he would be as ready to oppose the endowment of the Church to which he belonged, which was not like the Church of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Dungarvon, the most numererous Church in the world, but the smallest Church in the world. He declared that he would rather vote for a repeal of the union than the present measure, because he believed that the principle in volved in this measure was of more consequence.—(Laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Dungarvon said that, if this measure were lost, Ashton-under-Lyne would be illuminated. He (Mr. Hireiley) would only say in reply that he always voted fur justice to Leland in that House, and he believed that, if justice were done to Ireland, Ashton would be illuminated for a month.—( Hear, and a laugh.) He did not think it was fair, therefore, to accuse the dissenters of England, who supported their own religion and their own ministers, of bigotry and intolerance. It was no wonder that they should feel alarmed after the declaration of the Noble Lord the Mem. ber for Liverpool. the Noble Lord the Member for London, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Newark. After those declarations it became a very natural question to inquire if this measure was to end in itself, or if it was to be the first of a series of measures ?—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baro net ought to be more explicit, and promulgate the scope of his whole policy with respect to Ireland.—(Hear hear.) If this measure were nut to be followed up by others, then false hopes were raised in the minds of the people of Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) If it were to be followed by others, then the fears of the people of England were not half as great as they ought to be.—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) The Queen was to be sent to Ireland with gilt gingerbread, but the people of Ireland would indeed be children if they were satisfied with such measures as were proposed for their benefit. He would bid higher and go further than the Prime Minister to conciliate the people of Ireland, and though at the present moment they might witness repentant cries and remorse—(Cheers)—yet he and others who opposed this measure showed that they were better friends to Ireland than those who made such high professions now. He remembered, on one occasion. when the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln proposed the discontinuance of the grant of 9,0001. a year, in which he was supported by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Sligo, and the Hon. and Gallant Member for Armagh, that Mr. O'Connell said he would divide with the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln, if he pressed his mo tion to a division, for the Roman Catholic religion did not de pend on this paltry grant, and he said else that he was of opi nion that every religion should support itself, and then, in one of those flashes of wit, never surpassed even by him, he said, " Oh, those Gallant Colonels, they are the Church Militant, and, if I may venture a parody on them, I would say— Three colonels in three distant counties born, Lincoln, Armagh, and Sligo did adorn, The first in gravity of face surpassed— In jollity the next—sobriety the last. The force of nature could no further go, To beard the one, she shaved the other two. —(Much laughter.) He would beg of them not to spend their time in squabbles respecting differences of religious opinion —( Ironical cheers)—but he would ask what sight had they to put their hands into the Dissenters' pockets, and call upon them to pay for an establishment while they were ready and willing and able to pay for their own religion ?—( Hear, hear.) Ihe Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland' always spoke in a bold and manly manner, and he was the only person who attacked the voluntary principle. Others, indeed, said it was impracticable, but the Noble Lord said it was not efficient. Now, he believed that the voluntary principle would be more practicable than the present measure. He believed that they could carry out the voluntary principle in Ireland, but they would never be able to govern Ireland as long as a dominant Church was supported for the minority. Then as to the efficiency of the voluntary principle, he would only say that 925,000/. was the amount of money paid for the maintenance of ele ministers of the Dissenting bodies, and at the present tim the believed it amounted to 1,100,0001. Then for the cap nses of the purchase of ground, and building and law ex pen see. they subscribed a million annually, and the amount subscribed for visiting societies and for the distribution of tra ts and other local purposes, was estimated at 168,140 t. Th .y also supported theological academies. By the Indepen dei ts, as far as he was able to judge, two hundred and twenty we •esupprted at an expense of from 7,000/. to 8,000/. The Baptists and the Wesleyans supported similar esta blishments, and he believed that the cost of theo logical education was not less than 30,000/. per annum. He was glad that the Church of England was, to a certain ex tent, also adopting the voluntary principle. In Manchester the Church of England was able to build ten new churches by it ; and in his own neighbourhood there were four or five new churches. His Hon. Friend the Member for Oxford would consent to give up the connexion of the Church with the State, and leave it to rest on the voluntary principle. He believed the Church of England would never display so much vigour as if it abandoned its crutches and walked with all the vitality and power of religion itself. The Right Hon. Gen tleman the Member for Newark said this measure was only 6d. in the pound, and that it ought to be 20s. He agreed with him in that, but he combated the principle altogether of a State connexion with the Church. He thought that the Right Hon. Baronet had taken a step in the wrong direction, and he would, therefore, give the motion every opposition in his power.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. ROUND said he could not see any religious grounds to prevent him, as a Protestant, from voting in favour of her Majesty's Government. He believed education in Maynooth was limited, and ought to be extended. He thought that, from an improved system of education, the people would become more moral and more loyal. He looked upon this question as a question whether there should be an union or a repeal.—( Hear, hear.) He was confident that if they rejected this measure it would give an irresistible impulse to repeal.--( Hear, hear.) He was sure the Roman Catholics would receive with a grateful return a measure offered with confident liberality. He did not place much confidence in the dechration of the arch-agitator of Ireland, but he placed great rel.anee in the declarations of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for linngarvon, of the Member for Roscommon, and of the Noble Lord the represe sentative of the Howards, who spoke on this occasion the sen timents of the Roman Catholic aristocracy of England. Be lieving that the measure was beneficial, and reck less what the consequence might be to himself, but reserving to himself the free exercise of his judg ment respecting any ulterior measures that might be brought forward, he should give the measure of her Majesty's Government, founded, as he thought it was, upon justice, and likely to have beneficial consequences, not a weak or unhesitat ing, but a ready and a cordial support.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. BROTHERTON said he voted for the second reading of the measure, because he believed it likely to promote the . made by conciliation of Ireland. He was ready to do justice to Irela n d 1 other day, a most extraordinary statement had been un _ a him without doing an iniustice to the English Disienters. He ' the Rev. Dr. Buclianan-a statement which oceasi knowing 0, he cooed that the Roman Catholics were in a peculiar position, (Mr. Fox Mettle) considerable uprise yet e t and stood in a d iferent relati on to the Established Church gentleman from whom it came, and helieving thatad written from the Dissenter.-{ Hear, hear.) The Dissenters hart no not be guilty of any wilful misrepresentation. he b Tit wh i c h fair claim to the Church property ; but. with regard to the l?o. to that geialeman,expressing his surprise at the statememstan_es man Catholics, they must bear in mind that they were 7-Bths had been made, and requesting exlenatien of the circumstances I.3 ,_ c cp. of the population-that they had been despoiled of their attending it. He ( Mr. Fox Maule) would, in the Buchanan l ed ecclesiastical revenues, and that they were compelled to sup- read to the House the passage which Dr. it e ) had port a Church,from which they derived not the least advantage. quoted at the meeting to which he deentation Though he wished to see the present measure, and more, ace. referred. Dr. Puthanan said that he formed one oia a, _ et ish,d for Ireland, he wished to see it accomplished by proper from Scotland which waited upon the Right Hon. e l s a l 7 ll " eh means.-( Hear, hear. ) As long as he had had a seat in that on the subject of Church Extension, and they vier had (7,1 r. F. House he voted for every measure which tended to conciliate or struck by the declarations which the Right Hon. Baronet bigheSt ameliorate the state of the people of Ireland. He did not think made un that occa=ion. He thought it was of the t resist there was any very great difference between a grant of 9,0001. 1 moment that the established churches of the country should which existed for fifty years, anti the present grant. But when unite on the common ground of their Christian faith t 0., sir. he heard the Noble Lord the Member for London say that this the encroachments of Popery. It was most helper a t t eisch t i nt ed, was not merely a grant for the support of education in May- Buchanan emphatically added, to look to the statemen " nooth, but that it involved a great principle, and was the pre- followed. It was important, the Right Hon.Baronetcon eriod , cursor of other measures, he was led to reflect that the Protestant establishments should unite at that , 1 1 ._ .. o f where that principle would lead him, and to ask when the order of the Jesuits in most of the counees,e!ure whether he would vote to support the establishment Europe, particularly in Russia and Belgium, of another religion out of the public Ultr's. But he (Mr. ing to extend its influence and establish its power; • o regun Brotherton) would be no party to that bigotry and intolerance, Popish chapels and seminaries in this country were e s .oe. a and "No Popery" cry out of doors, of which he entirely dis- larly on the increase. He was persuaded that er. ,. '_ ei F i n e approved.-( Hear.) He looked upon those things with a dif- strugele would arise in which thee would have to div , ; mey , ferent eye from that which the parties themselves viewed each whe'her Popery or Protestantism should have the ase e t u , ann et other. He looked upon the Roman Catholics and their op- ' Such were the opinions of the Right Honourable now _ad ponents as one great Christian family, all ( f them having the ,in the month of May, 1838. He would nehrsoaau same object in view. He voted for the appropriation clause, .to the House th . grounds on which Dr. ' hge an's was en a d rd v sc o beo and he thought the friends of the Established Church in Ire- defended his use of that statement. Dr. Ilu' l . the • land might be made to do all that was required. Were they letter contained a confirmat . on of the use . e st ieeas ' now about to endow priests out of the Consolidated Fund words he used, and also contained the Doctor's P e ,m r , when they had abundant resources from the surplus funds of tion. He wrote to him in answer to a letter which lin th the Church Establishment in Ireland, he should be most Fox Maule) had written to him (Dr. Buchanan) I . :o TO. happy to give his support to any measure which terms :-" I have received your letter of the 15th inst .... i_ , do f would have the effect of producing so much good, ference to a speech of mine delivered in our Church SY: prta i s , and which would tend to promote union between Glaseow. in which you express astonishment, atl aou with two countries. Happiness and prosperity might be advance , l by statement I then made, and reque=t me to supply : ) ,.. _ tion to . the Ministry altering their resolution according to the motion of information relating to it. I can have no possible obi` t o , the Hon. Member for Sheffield. lie could not bring his mind answer your inquiries, but as you intimate your inte_ eseat i o n . to support a motion for a grant out of the Consolidated Fund, make some use of my statement, you must allow roe to o ; boo e, ... which might be the precursor of measures for the entire en- the circumstances which induced me to quote from mY ° . agains t the dowment of the Irish clergy nut of the same fund. The Synod at the time was discussing a resolution eesttaio Mr. P. BORTHWICK said that the Hon. Gentleman Maynooth endowment, and while speaking on that soften • e.. (Mr. Law)gave notice that he would aek the House not to grant had occasion to allude to the article in replying t00te. r ,.., , ,,,, so .. the money out of the Consolidated Fund• but instead of that peated notion of the present day that the power si b ul' a pa int he had submitted to the House the propriety of considering far as this country is concerned, is at an end. On si c _ orie of a• whether the resolution of the Government should nor be taken I thought it impartant to be able to adduce the testistn , ; ai d no ' into consideration that day six months. That was the first man whom no one could accuse of religious enthu'ia rt d fo to- time that he rose to discharge a duty which presented man noule be a better witness than Sir Robert Peel , 3" remakable to his mind nothing but unmiegled pain, as he nately I had a memorandum in my posses=ion of a uon the . ' was about to vote not only against a very large and statement made by that Right Hon. Gentleman° P ioing, I ' i extensive body of his fellow-countrymen and against subject which we were then discussing. Ilt s the u * tate' . a sincere, conscientious, and patriotic excitement which ventured to think 1 was not violating any principle, , __ te jai' now laid on the table of the House so many petitions; ment in question having been made not through a private but he was about to vote against these to whom he owed the victual, but to an official hod y, and having referencesseolvealtote° deepest gratitude and the most profound respect. He had no matters which were of an official character. The °b se' both personal object for supporting this measure. and, notwithstand- made by the Right Hon. Gentleman I conceive to o "aa i iele . • ing the smallness of pecuniary extent that the motion covered, true and important, and which there could he l % s P_r ura ey • he believed it was the basis of a new era of prosperity, because reason or ground for concealing from anybody. For e y that in the it was the beginning of an union between Ireland and England, of the report which you mention, I can only state ° , :5 g ives from which would spring the best events both for one country Scottish Guardian the quotation from my note-bollao' ;ode, and the other. He was aware that great popular feeling had verbatim. I can vouch for the accuracy of t were been excited. He had indeed heard that a celebrated preacher for within a few hours time after thtY ee Sta te , at Cheltenham had met an elderly lady on his return from spoken by Sir Robert Peel, I made a note of them. .' aon front chapel, who had asked him whether they were going to build ment was made on the 24th March, 1838, to a deptL Seatllnji the College of Maynooth at Cheltenham, or whether it was the Scottish Synod on the subject of the Church o . ,__ ste tei intended that the Pope should take up his residence there, and and many of the deputation, I have no doubt, heard n'y accur a g ° be supported by the Government. Now, he had no affiliation ment, and can answer for its accuracy. As to the /r oes_ with the Pope ; and though he did not agree with the my note-book, I have the most perfect confidence., _ . 4. 1. old the t u aies nent ° J. elderly lady, yet he at the same time thought that it was neees- diatelv after the words were spoken I wrote theire r. O i n o " ic , w ere eery that there should be the consent of the country to a grant read them over to some of my colleagues, who cr correctly or:, like this, and he thought that the consent of the country as well satisfied that I had taken the expressions corre o e_i b li t tio % I as of the Government ought to be obtained to a grant of this Pringle was one of the deputation, and I have nature. They had consented to the support of the religion of attest the truth of my note-hook." That was s , o s he hid the country in India ; they had consented to endow the Church Dr. Buchanan-a man, as far as he knew of him k a .„igepre: of the country in India. They had consented to endow the known him for some time), incapable of making a w opoo the Roman Catholic Church in Canada and Malta ;in India ;in sentation upon this subject. Now, he would nut ask Isis , would a If it Trinidad ; in the east ; in the west; in the north ; and in the declaration of Dr. Buehanan alone. but he south ; and he thought it was but talking about terms to speak Right Hon. Friend if the statement was not correcot a g reat of the endowment of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland. were true, what were they to think of the leader v r_ ee 'radi• The Roman Catholic Church, so far as he conceived, fulfilled party who, while in Opposition, all remts offices ; and he knew not why so much question should viduals against measures of this kind. a" N o .PoPe r l be de about the endowment of a Church against whole their minds with feelings which raised a ~,_v ernm en i employed, these d e e r i l ii euing principles there was but a feeble opposition, and in favour of cry-now, while at the head of the "' tly Or se whose pu'icy they had the results of experience The object of turned ronnil and brought forward a measure direc ue a out this grant was to increase the religious education of the people to this feeling? He would venture to affirm that s f i u , thong 7 of Ireland. He repudiated altogether the notion that this was an entire subversion of all political consistency.. aye got ri f would interfere with the religious education of the the Right Hon. Baronet and his colleagues m " mig ht righ t waY ° l f people of Ireland. He cared not for the question, for of their difficulties if they had set. to work in th h bet' r . the difference between tl.e Government, and the legislating for Ireland It would have been lou t __ der w hich i Roman Catholics of Ireland. He would nit treat this as a they had tried to repair the wrongs and injustices In an egos matter between the Roman Catholics of Ireland, and the Ireland had suffered, and placed her people t ? i i, couutrifi Protestants of England ; he would not consider it a' a ques- floating of civil equality with the people Of _ House °9u ld tion between the Gove..nment and Mr. O'Connell ; but. he Had they pursued this policy he had no doubt the asures wou he would consider it as a matter between the Catholic priests of cordially have agreed with them, 'and such log i ittizing t .,, Ireland and the people of this country. This was not his have had a much more permanent effect in trariT kii , r oast, object. The Reformation could not properly be traced to the sister country, but, said the Right Hon. Baronet, t" where, he reign of Henry VIII., but to the time of Wicliffe ; and he woul I give peace and tranquillity to Ireland, 130‘,„„ourab... conceived that the established religion was not to be ascribed would ask, would be the use cf this, if to the alteration which had been made three centuries ago, Baronet left an apple of discord behind him I e jo t he sh lo nor did he ground his opposition to this measure on any poli- Hon. Baronet had sent his conciliation to Irelan u e l e of gl i c tical grounds.-(Laughter.) He thought that any differ of an increased civil rfi - f • qua t cation or t s t people,the Pe'''. supP°7, t h e Bight i r t i e Rigns cites that might exist was to he ascribed rather to the spirit land would have been perfectly ready to give him th , e _ w eeld t ,. of whisky, than to the spirit of religious feeling, and while for i key had already admitted tbs.. they were he expressed these feelings, he might at the same time Ireland so Nis as temporal and civil matters wer nee fore!!", ° , say that his only consideration was that which had reference But by sending such a measure as this they e e r f e re r et of a ltar ei t the --h' lret to the feelings of the people of Ireland. It was not the an act of conciliation, which would not have the 0 _ C paltry grant of 26,0001. a year which was made to the people ing the agitation in Ireland, while on this side . The all vot of Ireland that entered int o hi s co ns id era ti on . He would tell it would serve to encourage and foster disconteinejaad conk; the the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Depart- which had been received from the people of ° wo uld have the went, that if he made a concession to this extent, he must con- lead Government to hope that their measure _ vo lts 0 e easur ceive that it would not thus stop He wou ld no t re f e r to the effect of permanently averting the future the l n , n ot case of America which had been adduced. He would not ad- Repeal Association. They had been told th rears , and pt duce the agitation which had been excited on this question- had been forced from them-that their I _, Governu, or e i e ng ,A-- S a o he would look on the result of that agitation as a fait accompli, their love of justice, had been the cause o' ied and conceived that it would be better in no way to bring that introducing this measure. The people 01 es : e with? eieoo.idere.o, agitation into this debate. He had put his thoughts hurriedly what the people of Ireland had got from P ers rit th i t t togetlier-(Laughter)-and had he had more time he might system of agitation, and Government might rely uP e a rmlet have made his speech shorter than he otherwise would have the English people, rather than sanction this raeastt t % m ote done. He had intended to make his opposition on the second he believed from the bottom of his heart, becon'' sia e we reading, but had thought it bet er to reserve it to this position th o r oug h repeaters than the people of Ireland were at t`,: o dy Of of the question, and give his adhesioe to the motion, that the ment. He believed, on his conscience, that the great '4 his motion be read that day six months. the people of England, and certainly the great majority i the Mr. FOX MA ULE rose and said, that after troubling the own co u n t r ym en b e li eve d, th a t the establishment ° w ith House at sonic length on a former occasion, it was with some R oman C a th o li c re ligion in Ireland in connexion , than regret that he rose at that hour, b u t h e t h oug ht it r i g ht t o t h e S ta t e wou ld be a most enormous evil, and ratberether notice some personal allusions to th e con d uct w hi c h h e h a d sanc ti on i t t h ey were prepare d to d o away alt °B Fa thought right to follow with reference to his vote on that with the connexion between Church and State eoli• question. The Hon. Friend he meant had thought it right to his own part, he should prefer seeing any ot , l u ' e r r in it t° attack him for having attended a public meeting on that sub- tical party in power than the one which would ; !,,i t abil ject, and he had endeavoured to make him responsible for lan- such a violation of conscience as this measure must 1 ,7 co der t guage spoken at that public meeting, and for resolutions agreed lead to. Let the Government try some other to there. He (Mr. Fox Nlaule) /lid not hold that parties pre- peace upon Ireland than this measure. He did not b " worth the road t o t hat sent, or even pre,iding at a public meeting, had a right to be the sacrifices Government were making were not 111 ° li' inea i held responsib u c for all that might be said in the heat of are u- result which they anticipated from it. and d nt or in debate on a question of such prominent importance sure to Ireland there would be an end to all the ypublicgilecod't an t of such great public interest ; because it all confidence in the public character of the a ll ' en i n tbs ., was enl on y such occasions that individuals could House would be sacrificed.-(Hear, hear.) e t e more Baronditin3Ses, give expression to their feelings on this question, passed this measure the would be doing and it was but excusable that strong language should be al- country than an Minister-whether the R i g ht ° t u be C it Y °I lowed them. Was he to be responsible for the language held ' his Right opposite or Member for ,f to there, any more than he should be held responsible for the lan- London-would ev l d er be ab e to reme y. offered hia 3sel for guage used hy Hon. Members in that House ? Was he to be Mra PRINGLE did not intend to have m r be held responsible for the resolutions passed there, any more the attention of the House, but as the 11° Te spee ch ' It . than for the resolutions brought before that House or the no- Perth had referred to him in the course of his ometti ,. oia tices of motion which might appear upon the paper? No ; he could hardly avoid troubling the House for a few t h a t he r ile n could not be held responsibl e f or th a t l an guage or those resolu. had been statedby the Right Hon. Gentleman had ' 2 ' t tions, but he would tell the Hon. Member for Sheffield, that speak to the accurac Friende expression ' w ht e ,„ ...rei . p reey ... if he were to put down those meetings, he would be doing a from his Right Hon. at the head of thm".,,,uojele for great public injury, inasmuch as those meetings had their rise some few years back. It would, however, be _ J est ; the cor e P abllhee fa' cl i f tli h e t s, in public opinion . At those places the expression of public him to tax his memory so far as to be able tonre read f 0 d bee e i the,' opinion found a vent, however strong the language was in which rectness or truth of the words which had e belies' elf. the public expressed that opinion, he thought it better House, but, so far as his recollection went,sLonet hiln cteil for the House at once to know and hear it. Having said these were nearly those used by the Right Hon. **- 3 , D , cOnti l b i e few words with reference to that point, he would now pro- He had no hesitation in saying that t " -I Holl auri lief ceed to notice some of the arguments which had been used the s i ncere sent i men t s o f the Eig his belief on the measure before the House, because in discussing the G en tl eman at t h e ti m e, and it w- wa e en ° wo uld measure at present, and in voting for the motion of the Hon. that the Right Honourable Baronet measure - .Ha d and Learned Recorder for London, he confessed at once that sincere when lie thought that this nrelane• , ba le he voted for that motion with the simple view of putting a greatly improve the condition of the peOple 0. e w oulu- no r stop to the Government measure The Right Hon. Barone the Right Hon. Gentleman thought "his m easu n r i this a°l2 be. at the head of the Government had stated that Hon. Members the tendency to inure the Protestant interest _ n dsoclt I t in that House had already assented to the general principle of or place the Rema i n Catholic Church in endowments in passing the annual grant to the College of was sure the Right Hon. Baronet would n ever to ha ve 00 the a s i;,,, bi a s Maynooth, but he (Mr. Fox Maule) was very certain that it forward. It was because lie feared that it w° Baron des d i those who consented to the measure containing the clause effect, that he ventured to oppose the Right 11 _7;00' 1 it t which enabled the parties to endow such an institution in this occasion. There was no statesman for w himself, 5" he voluntary principle, would think it very hard if, by giving their greater respect than the Right Hon. Baronet ane nt , o ver gni vote, they were to be supposed pledged to the general princi- all measures introduced by the H a d he ba" be ee ple of endowments. The endowment of a seminary established should have his confidence and support. ~,:icl hs ve riight solely for the education of the Irish priesthood, and what was doubt upon the tenden yof the measure, he sne s e o f the -' re in his opinion a still more lamentable termination, the perpe- inclineto have relied upon the better judgmen s the 16 ,,, e e a 1• - tual endowment of the Roman Catholic clergy.--( Hear, hear. ) Hon. Baron t bu The Noble Lord on this side of the House looked forward to wouldhave t e lt; f ily convinced that e pree - , 1 his effec t t of e e was u - that event with the most sanguine expectations-(Hear)- And he should ncouragln following the d . • li e „ r eosr st . not, therefore, be u o was, , tt p hew and the Right Hon. Baronet on the other side did not deny fully convinced that this grant would reason for his -r rni° e t was to be taken from the Consolidated Fund of the measures, and this was an additional to the Gnv e d tba country. That fund was raised from the taxes e, o n the paid on the present occasion an opponent by the people of this country. as te must emu take u p Now, he had He thoh heard an Honourable Member, in the course of that the time t that ultimately the struggle mus t w ish to t?i t we , lei debate, term this a paltry sum not worth contendin for. time a w th a e sn H ot very distant. RomanCatholies,etes or. _,, H he did not thinkel goosewe ouse, and, besides, i n Or _b e r 1 . They had sufficient evidence of the generosity of the British edit • discuss nature ying to questions of this na uun. Mem he els public, in granting the enormous amount derived from of the ... . but e. to the Commons.-( Hear The ) h seech income-tax. They represented to the public that such a tax Sheffield had .the discussion, he wi sh of a te9dency to revokep was necessary for the purpose of meeting the exigencies of the not desirous t Neither did fee lini s be oge into it Hear State, and of placing this country in the proud position which be ) uld hurt th e ....30° lie provoked to say anything which co . c h e ers) ca dre, it had in former times maintained. The British b• pu lic came those who differed from him in religion - 1, B ,ao , lie forward with a generosity that surprised him (Mr. Fox '- d his - (Hoare/eti assure the House tha tower s Maule), and had nt doubt surprised the Right Hon. Baronet fellow-sub. the had feelin g but kindness. -- ,i,,,t thes se ect , jec snog b also ; for they had searcely given any opposition to his measure should stating' that ee pre ei , of , therefore, merely conclude y - he had feeblY e i o of t" Was such a generous public likely to quarrel with this sum ments of his own which, however, . 26,000/., because of the munificence of the grant *) • n of the P etit ' 0 . No-it the • • opinions of a large proportio I was upon principle that they opposed it.--( Hear. ) They were e ei be , sr. ' quarrelled with this endowment because it was to be carried cou;i ir tr . y A .- 1. (h o eers a) ) 'Cf . NNELL as an Irish i‘e e ee e t i ste s stie out at their expense, and in violation of their conscientious Irish Roman Catholic,' that the = is _,ng gr..... feelings on the subject.-(Cheers.) It had been said that the of eti reri .. r io In ss over without an opportunity to hi ii No Popery " cry had been raised aeainst this measurand eo.religtonl,e'''. en his (Mr. Fox Mettle) did not know what was meant e b th He , ode on the part of hit countrymen they Majesty's Governmont for the course word.-( Hear, hear, and great laughter.) Did it me ) a r n theal grate f ° Their Fast subject.-( Hear, hear, hear.) He was gent same thing that the "No Popery " cry of 1829 did ?-had ; l isted th at e Io i ~,.. (Hear, manner in • hear.) He might say it did not, for that cry had been r •maintained.-( Cheer s ' ' poliel • s t sed policy could no longer be of a eetter onon th ., against the possession by Roman Catholics of the civil liberties ' which Protestants then enjoyed. The opponentsof candid avowal he saw the beginning „ e bers e t a grs'!„ that (Cheers.) He believed, also, that many 11 I de4eVed b ig riablv measure of justice said, that if they took off abilities which affected Roman Catholics ' the dis- (the Opposition) side of the House equal Y an tn he re' individnals tude-( Hear, hear)-and he particularly , w hich et h of that persuasion would sit in Parliament and hman l° tong e s have r power Lord the Member for London for the m of hi s 5 lo ge , to intermeddle with the laws by which they governed. Then was raised the cry that by themselves were sis . ted temptation, which none but a Wr°, orwe e cee _ w on such a course mind could resist, and which some of his ' I°l- ) d had c°l'3B Cli ee" ' they invaded the Constitution of the country-the No Popery ( eel cry was then directed against Roman Cathol.cs, to .undivided sulePe rt.- wa il° a vent their enjoying the privileges to which they were j PT to give this measure his 5.00 ,,.. ; the had woe entitled, and the possession of which could not possibly • us yof The measure was valuable Membernotwithstanding n' for Ashton b on ly °ill ; the Protestant religion of the countrinjire the sum with which the Hon. The measure was t, h im no t Y.-( Hear, hear.) But the Roman Catholics of Ireland. hear. ). Le e lown se P the case was very different here. They proposed to d now for the Roman Catholics of Ireland than the did o n h iere able as the promise of others.-( Hear, eo_ise of , et hoe Instead of merely granting them civil liberties, they y now en. be misunderst od-he did not mean the p a ;P au ' g h.) li co reS . ; pro- to the Catholic Church.-(" Hear" and ' a oxforo --t° e roun d I posed to endow the Roman Catholic seminaries. The posed to remove them from thesupervision of the State, y pro- speak to Hon. Members opposite, from anti they borough.-( A laugh.) He would ask ahem , -t H e are r aaa j were thus establishing a principle which would, in his lead to the final endowment of the Roman Catholic opinion could be resisted as the religioni,of the majority and, olo and, r t ill hei itself.-(Cheers.) Surely these men had a right to Church If the present motion were resteted upon. e t tV e i e d as 1 i ce len a their conscientious opinions upon that subject without being not be surprising if the endowment were a d . T .. _ eop le r o es wh i r ls subjected to the odium of this cry-of this, as he would t ( Hear, hear)-for he was glad to say tht,t h w e ' Y oiee su _ re , s ob it, very bad cry of "No Popery." It was neither • it term did not desire it.-( Hear, hear.) But the eseas';_ e lion° just to raise that objectionable term against men rig t nor he looked for were of another kind-they.w „ ow o f tes. , ee pt who acted as long ago were brought under the consids:;,ord go " a b• solely en conscientious grounds; but if they complained of that by Mr. Smith O'Brien. There was the 1 . l qu iryt_ . l % not "No Popery " cry now, why did they not complain of question. Into that Ministers had made an, t, althounted--• it at other times ?-( Hear, hear.) That cry was raised was bound to say that the result of that inq° l ; esoee eo against Lord Melbourne's Government in 1837, 1838, more than lie ,a lose and so forward - raised, he would say, in 1839, all that he would wish, was much slept s ou the re' original purity.-(Laughter.) If that Government all its ( Hear)-and lie trusted that the Government or i t sor bise c i spoke of time in bringing forward their measure f ° tion of th e ,: trio ° dealing with the municipal corporations in Ireland, they were port. He would not now go into the tree . b e t a . c oo' met by the "No Popery" cry. And from whom subject , f their big proceed ? From the very partyof which the did this cry which formed no part of the present .. Right H out 0 - •h - not Lett It w hich , e , be on. that her Majesty's Government had Churc h = oug ht e Baronet was a member and the leader. The Established n:Ater tried to put down this cry. They made yll (t e Tories) 3ideration. Again, as to the ha d ably i t° l7 ,, t r it i° 3 they could then, and now when they found a the use of it Hon. Friend the Member fur Sheffield Government siyoulo P - t ee e' against themselves they were the very something similar tore the House, he trusted the oo t to _ or , it, first to co,nplain of it, condition more befitting a church which was u 1 e n d t ° s"P rl th ese The Right Hon. Baronet opposite had stated that he had al- ligious feeling of the people, who were comps take UP 4 thei r ways discountenanced this proceedir Fox Alaule) would say, that when 1.-( Hear, hear.) He( Mr. -( Hear. ) He tru-ted that 51inisters would sv . e d I/ ,_ ec e. he heard the "No Po er " ions without the fear of being t " I .` enn se.t.e:: o at p y quest of l" wit° cry made use of against the Government to • which he himself political opponents on the ground rig ht, de r' belonged, he had heard no disclaimer from the Right. Hon He trusted they would do what was the would or the y „ Honourable Baronet ; and when he heard ' . the other feeling the satire of their enemies y that .... p hlets day that the Right Hon. Baronet in his retirement into Op- tion of their supporters. He did not thtsa- ill have P'-ucb es, position gave countenance to the No that after the st . - 5t eetino ' v ete"' a,ements lately made b th 11 . h II y c tg t on. and speeches in favour of repeal and great en san s t oo Baronet, the House had a right to h bl• ' . , . ..7 Dan' ere 1.0 t ave apu lc explana- some honest men might fear, and Mai" h e rC W P tion of the course which he (the Right Hon. Baronet) had to dread. But the shouldrecollect that t ;ne ed y shou oy taken on that OCCaSiOII. At lf they a meeting in Glaagow the kinds of agitation.( Hear, hear . )