The Sun. — London, England, 1845-02-14 00:00:00

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[Ding fh ife re ill C OO theY,,, Pr 'do term' eyed t° Lot e y °D e " viP o otr,(l )rta pee th e ° , l o° round oet 03, ould the ago c oo t )0 from 10 0 s p s of t lio € l ,o h ot and offers t o o (51 ,,c 01 6 ; b olt t tbroJe I to o f to ioinb s ero be r h soppy as o ,, ri p i ms ,- ,,itelig t ci e et ) l o his cueu b, heold f 4015111, he ,v i .s t his h e i k oi A e e d he " 1 4 for, IV ers ou jo rtf brnl a : ‘ , l cer til i ber e ,; 'tett j o ti'?'",a ide P", p ecu.o, Lierci ai 1) 0i - on t" bY r i it , 0 met ti ll" 60/ did 5 6 i Y ofe roi° br e [test ' o 7. e re , t . ° o ‘'"'"o ,ons Wu. t iol,„l o tleto c s po6' ,rd Dslthe 4 11 0 . I) ir d Pt!" t i hi° oP t horlie o the r .0 . • f 1 e o r , ero re el)" her f door b or h ' e ,„ o ut ° ges t, to i'„l • s ioo 9 0 0 ' 0 , se deci yet her alt"b iye mu st i g roe nt bo t', 03( 0 , 0' he Vecti42hfit to 0 i givo , t- ; he cb b lip w e s ce l l ‘ 1° P t ' of tb t jierc ies„. ere n o e, )f the 61 1;oer d ' 0 45 ' to the hicbd, in durn goa o s e P l ugh tanner e ri f r o c o poP i 0 i-- tbc p, 0 xtie s, 4l bid he t . "' jug l ' s O ' e r? cco" re' vest to o __ t o 4 ‘13 pg sc a tfo ' loofa eeeseesee. 'nary official messengers. The papers had been put into a box and locked up with a new lock, of which he done had the key. He had given ti e box and key, with his OTXII hands, to another Member of the Board, whip 'should rat like manner give it to anoth r Nltinitiet of the Board, and so on, until it was returned to him. There has no key t o t h at box, with the exception of e master-key, which he wore round his own neck. The box was never out of the custody of a member of the Board of Trade, and it was physically impossible fur any one but a m em b er o f t h e B oard of Trade to have access to it. With respect to the decisions of the Board, they had all, with one exception, been come to on the day on which they had been published. The minutes lead been written at the Board by the secretary of the lioard ; the notices for the Gazette had been prepared at 'the Board by the secretary, and had been copied by him there. No one could have any knowledge of those de cisions until after their publication in the Gazelle. It might be considered that after those minutes had been placed in the hands of the editor of the Gazette, the responsibility of the Board of Trade ceased ; but they land taken every precaution to prevent persons connected with the Carafe from an improper use of those docu inents. The Stock Exchange was closed at four o'clock, and the papers were never put into the hands of the edi etoa) rliu,ntil it was so near f our o ' c l oc k that i t was physi impossible that he could by any means of convey ance reach the Stock Exchange before that hour. lie was aware that it was not necessary for him to enter into this vindication before their Lordships, but he felt called upon to do so in consequence of what had been said upon u• But suppose that railway speculators, calculating Ipttproenhas,l ths:tecisions of the Board of T ra d e , h a d ma d e it did not follow that the intentions of the hoard had beon made public ; for any person of ordinary jh r ewdoess, l oo ki ng at t h e reports of last year, and hay eg seen the early reports of the Board of Trade, could calculate upon the principle on which that Board would Proceed. Many of the journals had made accurate calculations of their decisions. The principle on Which they d ec id e d was to secure the greatest The antage to the public.—(Cries of " Hear, hear."r decision s were open to the review of Parli ament ) If thos e d ec i s i ons were . erroneous, they would be treated I"4 mass of worthless papers, but the Board of Trade "ad endeavoured to discharge the heavy task, attended 43 it was with the most oppressive responsibility, which I liad been laid on them by Parliament, without fa.-eour or fear, and they had adopted this principle as their guide—that having a due regard to the ,rational and local interests they should decide in savour of that line Which appeared to them to to the country the greatest attainable amount of public good.—(Hear.) Lord BROUGHAM 0 Parliament of late most important sub', and L o!' the thw remarks considered that this was the ect which had engaged the attention years. He begged leave, in the which he was about to make, illn`xliWir.ch were extracted from him by a deep and . t , ems consideration of the great interests involved in "alequestion —he begged leave, not only to absolve his "hie Friend, but also his colleagues, from all blame lh e i % ,, t ,: p L er- Indeed, he had never heard of any charge 'lion that her against them till he heard their vindica torbithat „ enin e . g He had himself no connexion, God he d ghter)—with any railway, having never di s i e n v t Q e r likely to do so, and therefore he was speaking his N r , e stedly. He could not but express surprise a d t e ee ;mitt Friend saying that the report of the BoaT - je t ' not influence 'Parliament. His Noble Friend said, do riot act judicially, we do not decide, we are ancillary t o P ar li ament . All w e do is to e x amine - ue ease, and report upon it to Parliament." Why, this true, but supposing he (Lord Brougham) repre lettted a railway company, and supposing he proceeded 1 3 Parl iament, would not the first thing that he wo u ld l e ar be, " You are throwing away your time, . ° 4 ll hare been reported against. What chance h e " N you of passing your Bill ?" Did any man !"`ht a f art hi ng ' s wort h o f stock in his life, nor was -ee I lPpose t h at the reports were to be waste paper. Why, rnen , t hey would be followed by both Houses of Parlia t• Government were pledged to the reports, be- I lse a portion of them had sanctioned them. True it as that that portion of the Board were not in the C Ca binet, b ut, until the late extraordinary retirement of 14 ight Hon. Friend of his, one at least had been in the we nt, et ' No, these reports would ~b e taken by Parlia- They were not li v i ng i n utopia, where Par- Ment L was independent of the Government or the thev er nment of P ar li amen t.—(L a ught e r.) It was sa id arl a ,,t where the Executive had pronounced an opinion, goy reported that opinion to Parliament, they were t} ( l ) e ‘ 00 und by that opinion in their House. 'This was not Gee sert of world they lived in. But now it was not a v'erritnent! Well, if it was not a, Government, it was lea gue important member of one—a very important col yeas'e of one. He should like to have a return, next bie s howing how many reports of this Board of five Te a t e rs, actin g un d er t h e P res id en t o f t h e B oar d o f sad had not been sanctioned by Parliament, tha t "Tv many had. His own conviction was— the , te e result would be just the s a m e as Di ne report of the Board of Trade in ninety heed,,,eases out of a hundred— perhaps i n a iter a l`' cases out of a hundred—there would be found a 'Pr i ,„is "incidence between the decisions of th e B oar d o f rye reported now to Parliament, and the decisions tre e t , cle d in the Statute Book. He said this with very confidence, not merely from past experience — no t seeb e ,Y e ilidging from the probabilities and improbabilities Lad 1, 11.° Da the speech of the Noble Lord himself. He tribe lard, 'S not only to the first part of that speech, but part—and the whole of the last part, and it je st Et de monstration of the truth of the assertion he had aktie l i , ) de. The utmost possible precautions were taken, 10e.,..Vs Noble Friend—and most justly and properly, Ivb er Prevent the least whisper from getting abroad, ele e i s 'Y the result attending the inquiry—the probable Pap e ,.. l " of that inquiry—might be conjectured; first, the ,_'er en '" were not entrusted with the executive, and there key especial lock was provided, as well as a special fl ith t- d se clire these papers. The genius of the Bramah there - , a3.— (Laughter)—was put into requisition, that e "ght be a new inimitable key for an unopenable ap,;;l(lteuewed laughter.) 'This box was sent by a ' t laart e ,„ nae ssenger, at a particular part of the day—at a Ass Past four—j us t wh en the St oc k E xc h ange onl y 'nut, t o the Gazette office. He was the (4141(1P:1.3°a entrusted with it, and no one human being 14 th e Boer form a conjecture what would be the opinion i ll thi g -e ard• But then why all this secrecy, and why the " mult ipliedprecaution to prevent the publicity of to e ast. era ? whispe r getting out of the decision of the lute c If the decision of the Board was of no conse to b, e t and was not to effect the final result,—if it was Perpeeeesidered only as the opinion of five men for the ir ne te ' i ' s ,o,f saving Parliament . the trouble of entering so „„.7 into the° ancillar tion if the Board did that only, ques . y ly to Parliament, and not to guide he would ask, n'l- did they not publish their pro of thi n gs at Charing. cross.—(Hear, hear.) The reason tietsecrecy was this, tat the decision of the Board naTlitY operated on ' Parliament, but finally decided ber e t should as and what not. Now Bills ..fer o e ut Ze ld r.toh-ree schemes of railways in contemplation ard, and the question was which of the three d 010 1 i; successful in the opinion of the Board, an PK) , the two should he condemned. The part• . „ Friendßoard, at first said that the Board (' ,d not exa iteess'Nerlee; they had no power to 'examine or call the y es, and the • informed themse' re- in the best way b could. he • - 4tY the par „ e -oar- c xammeect the evidence produced e. 'te il ea „ues without callire g witnesses. The reports of twha: the Gazer a w z ere publishe:A in the Gazotte. Now, what publictlq l e? It the officialprint that gave to the the co- ' s idemnation of two of the three schemes, approv 1 ^ 64 n3St t of the remaining one. They reported ete s vvo s, eque, din favour of one ; an d w h a t was t h e first ? The decision was whispered upon the 'teha r e Proj ee ' l go, and those who had shares in the two Zeei tet to ts sold out at a loss, while the last rose in the alle°W what-incalculable extent. Now, it WAS well to way they could best regulate this im lfire4R:e Power for the safety of the public, so as not to be ea th e el is - tieua , y i si ony property of individuals. If, fer instance, r es, ie ll reany had done, invest 5,000/. in railway kaoula, naturalad any connexion who had done so, he enough, feel greatly interested m 04 ( 1 . 6 what grounds the Board of Trade had so Irelv ed -0,, ,ey were all aware of the immense capital Sink that et railway schemes ; yet here was a . 41, _c th e by a single word depress or altogether t e ". s s: depre"'se, flourishing schemes, and raise the Let depress an d il • Could ruin some and elevate others 4h _ them, not all this by a single report in the Ga zeite. thnid he injustice this laway with the impression that there th at th ere neshtice this, but yet where it was possible th. eu rcl with a‘ T el be injustice, it became their duty to 14i ti ght each ous eye the interests of the public. Ile leb ri tater s ere Board should consist of some sworn ti at Would b e e Crown, or of some responsible persons k, 3 the y ca_ accountable to the country for the deci abeelred sue n_to, and for the justice of decisions which et 4 l b sho a i si n'oteit.:ol:mous amounts of property. Then Was 11 3' or Sell e a position to go, if they so chose, ,ett.falitairvoieut.,,uirtailostiono,enr.etrhoereS,tock Exchange. He decidedly that that Board should consist ha did g t hue Parliamentra kand station—high the country. i n T h political ey `th blottre i'Lace Men too high or too respectable at e , and b e Qrawnost eligible wosvoolduldbereptehaet s h w is o o vn wn ad c v o i n se v r ic s tio o t t that the hard his h ti o „ , hie words e ar.) But he (Lord Brougham) must ti( it e _nei e „ !I n's to prevent an unfavourable construe ceeitiltoo7l as r " a ee u, !Pon thena, s arguments must be het l lot be more PP.) upon generally, for he felt that there kat! thpe peetrasolnesinsidtitvinidguaalss members of some—and ete ee , - re e e. b 414P - :11 - er l he PI new Pasle well, the i;"g tt crib ed - I ;` 4 not k tord, :lbjecthislszwhichbiloodbiNle e but he took uo th w ei o r n i d ha . racters as just refer rie a n ll d u . ded to by the Noble W ts e w as said a eth_ro_rieeet..„ that one gentleman named O'Brien I N ; Ar r. 0 ;`,4 vylth /3 a Railway Company, and that an forrelsaid thatl' en was a memb er of that Board, and it earl on . first h a•fteitle.isio;t 11?USIE—.The speculated upon certain in by _ A re c the intended decisions of the Board. ioma Board du twaetivoenßas this, that •W E acloeasuj.°;sies tbhraotthiterc.oulTdobteliadtohnee. f eet M enaber g s ly t en , revealed gav by one 4 n 3 urd t "" in addition he h 1 gave el-- a , to observe, that it at had no reason to doubt that 441 erte w d as thcease; He understood that it had been Itk‘ord Br or e•bout the time a (Lord re a, 'Brien had been purchaser of stock Ithsti no u g h arn) wit. _ in 2 but n that was denied, anti 4.ehtttia, sha tubt i t Wa 4 s all cfroi sipierir quite satisfied. i r.„41 . :: By to ut r ot r o t n: S l i taL s dt ri vo i a C tn i h o t en matter. g could m g a h n t exist al l a g p a ro i n p s e t r , t a h n a d t 1m el 1-'141:113tall- Goy f)nen°,gut attr a a g e e t result from the ttthe attention of her ten urea honour et, personsa coenr.stitint t w i no g u t ld he n ß o o t a d rd o tne tt of h Y ' oh, the amount tldofnot di ve et Tth e lle a Y na .a o . u n divulg© their in of at tile itn of their deliberationc s rion used to pre "e r esult -• mv_a_ ofaan,o ia,,a_t_ure, and proved this,inigf i g t i p v r e o n ve to ci the taost „.,.• t hat th e i P,F°Per tim e, ttlire-mPerteestil°rtllatiOn sought to be secured was of a capable of being made a 144111:41412 M agnitude to the public, It was, therefore, absolutely necessary that confidence ishoitPd ha Observed to Frevent malversation, and that ti-e ino t entire confidence should be placed in the Members of that Board, in order to preret fraud and sreculation among the peblie ire liad thought it his duty to make these fc•IV r_Lervations on a matter which had excited tU public interest iii no ordinary degree. The Marquis of I, \ NSDOWNE, who was Ileal'd at first v, ry indistinctly, was understood, to say that the decisions of the Board of Trade Were never considered final in the House of Corntnons. He thought the Board was of incalculable. advantage, as preventing persons from embarking in schemes which were never likely to be sanctioned by the Imperial Parliament ; and for that reason alone he should be inclined to support it. It would, he hoped, be shown that, however individuals were prejudiced in favour of their own plans and schemes, they would still be open to reason, and the de cisions of the Board of Trade would therefore be emi nently useful in destroy ing all such fallacious schemes in the bud, and preventing a great waste of capital that might be more usefully employed. Lord STANLEY said that as his experience in the other House was of a more recent date than that of the Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham), perhaps he might be allowed to correct a misapprehension into which the Noble Lord had fallen ; because if allowed to go uncontradicted, it might create an impression exceed ingly unjust to the character of the Government, and the House itself. The Noble and Learned Lord had stated that he should move for a return of all the rail ways that had passed the House of Commons, and for the reports of the Board of Trade connected with them, Ind he ventured to affirm that, in ninety-nine cases out ar every hundred, the decision of the House had followed us a matter of course the opinions of the Board of Trade. It was extremely likely that the opinions of the Legis lature would be in accordance with that of the Board of Trade. But he could assure the Noble and Learned Lord that, in no one instance, had the Government upon railway matters sought to influence the votes of the Members of the lower House. The Noble and Learned Lord would ever find, in the majority of cases, that even the members of the Government had refrained alto gether From voting on such occasions, or, when they did Vice, they were found opposing each other. The Noble and Learned Lord would certainly assign the claims of private property as a just reason why Members should have an opinion of their own on such subjects, without being biassed by the expressed opinions of the Board of Trade or of the Government. The Board of Trade examined the schemes before them, as stated in the most favourable light by their several supporters, without the perplexing examinations and cross-examinations of counsel; and, therefore, any decision they might come to, might be very fairly taken as an evidence of the effi• ciency of that Board, and the justness of their conclu sions ; and, certainly, if it were so, it must be conceded that it was of great public advantage. He did not intend to asiert to their Lordships that the Board never exercised any inflnence upon the house of Commons. All he meant to say was that the decisions of that Board were not looked upon as final by that House ; but surely Noble Lords would be of opinion that the Howse would but stul- tify itself, if it gave no heed to decisions come to after minute labours and patient investigation. The Noble Marquis had justly observed that the decisions of the Beard were eminently calculated to prevent unne cessary expenditure on the part of those who supported these projects. His Noble Friend near him (Lord Dalhousie) had already stated the grounds on which their decisions were founded. It was very true indeed that if these decisions, through some inadvertence, were, if he might use the phrase, to ooze, they might give rise to fraud and speculation. His Noble and Learned Friend had spoken of the hardship to which parties were subjected by a rejection of their schemes by the Board of Trade; but his Noble and Learned Friend might not be aware that by a recent order of the other House an alteration had been made in the period at which parties might present their petitions, and, consequently, bring in their Bills. By this alteration parties would have the full benefit of time to consider how to make their case more perfect, and to those who might be induced to withdraw in consequence of the opinion expressed by the Committee of the Board of Trade, it would be the means of saving a vast expense both in that and in the lower House. Really useful schemes would be enabled, in consequence, to come before the House without any of that expensive and unprofitable litigation to which they hod formerly been subjected, while other parties who were unsuccessful in obtaining a decision in their favour, might wisely withdraw without burdening themselves with further unnecessary expenses. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE did not know that the constitution of the Board compelled them to withhold their reasons for their decisions. It must be quite ob vious that they could not have come to their decisions without some reasons, and it would have been quite as easy for them to communicate their reasons as it was to communicate their decisions to the public, and both might have appeared at the same time. No doubt that what his Noble Friend had just stated was quite true with respect to that which had been recently adopted in the other House of Parliament ; but it had taken place, he believed, since the discussion which had occurred last year on the constitution of the Board. No doubt the effect of the existing management would be to prevent a large portion of the capital of the country from being wasted upon useless and hopeless speculation. The Earl of DALHOUSIE said, that as far as the Board were concerned, it was quite as easy for them to have submitted their reasons in detail at the time they published their decision, as at a future period ; b u t inas much as the existence f the Board depended on a reso lution of Parliament which called upon them to make the report of their reasons to Parliament, they believed that the course which they had adopted was the pro per one. The subject then dropped, and the House immediately adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 13. NOTICE OF MOTION-STATE'OF THE NAVY. Sir CHARLES NAPIER (in continuation):said— One mode by which the true character of this ship might have been ascertained was by bringing her and the Queen into a hostile position with respect to each other. In fact, to get them engaged. He did not mean that they should fire shot at each other, but that they should fire as if they were in action, and then it would be seen which ship fired the fastest, and which kept up her firing the best. There was another objection to the Albion, if the report be true which had been made respecting her. The Rodney, which was a two-decker, carrying 92 guns, carried her lower deck seven feet six inches out of the water when at sea, and fully stored, whir .d th ; Albion, with only three months' provisions on ‘ooard, and with only a usual rate of stores, was n• .il3 , —ay. six feet nine and a half inches out of the sva: .,r, if the level of the lower deck was to he taken • es the guage. There were two ways by which level was to be ascertained, for it would be recoy ., ecteu tnat tne range of the outer port was three '7...cries more than that of the same propor tionate ( wallet within. He alluded to the deck floor i°7",,. The way in which a guage of the height of a ship out of the water was to be taken was by taking a batton and laying it on a level with the port, and to measure the distance between that and another batton laid along the level of the water. By this measurement it was ascertained that the height of the Albion could not be so high as six feet six inches, But, when sailing, the Albion could not be so high as six feet six inches, for he found by the builder's report that this was the measurement which gave her height before she received her guns. She had, therefore, at that time, 120 guns to take in ; and he would leave the House to judge whether the addition of this weight would not decrease the heightof her lower deck ports out of the water when she got to sea. lie now came to the consideration of sailing ships in general. It appeared by the list which had been fur nished to him by the Admiralty, and which was now on the table of the House, that, since 1830, five 120- gun ships had been built, costing more than 3,000,0001 The Queen cost 83,000/, the Trafalgar 87,000/, the Royal William 76,0001., the Waterloo 72,0001., and the St. George 79,000/. From this it would be seen that, in proportion, the Queen was more expensive than any of them. The Rodney, of 2,626 tons, cost 67,550/. ; the Nile, of the same burden, 70,000/. ; the London, of 2,602 tons, 71,0001.; and the Albion, of ninety guns, and a tonnage of 3,110 tons, 89,341/. When entirely fitted up, the cost of the Albion would be immense. After marking the cost of the Vanguard, the Thunderer, and other vessels, the Gallant Commodore went on to say that, since 1830, there had been constructed six three deckers of 120 guns, five of 110 guns, four of 90, three of 84, four of 80, two of 70, three of 30, five of 56, four of 44, six of 26, together with seventeen 16-gun brigs. The whole cost of these, and other vessels, amounted to 1,668,460/. He had one other observation to make with respect to the Albion, which was, that when she came into port, having been only a year out, and but a short time at sea, her waterways and diminish ing plank were so open, that wood was obliged to be driven in between her seams before she was coppered, to such an extent that one hundred shipwrights and apprentices were at work on her in Plymouth Dock yard for seven days, which was equivalent to seven hundred men. Ho now came to a most impor tant question of naval construction, that of steam-boats. Up to 1831 they had only a few steamers of low tonnages but in that year steam began to make a great progress, and the Government found it absolutely necessary to do something. At the time the Lord High Ad m i ra l was i n office, he (Sir C. Napier) took it on himself to write him a letter on the subject, from which, if the House would permit him, he would quote. He said, as it was uncertain whether the various experiments then trying would succeed, ho should recommend a vessel 10 feet wide, 150 long, and 18 deep. She ought not to be so fine as a man-of-war, nor to carry so much fuel. She should consume 22 tons of coals a day. The engines and the boilers should be secured against shocks. He recommended that the wheel should not be so broad as usual ; and though in that case the vessel would not go fast in the river Thames, it would, in rough weather, be under complete command. Now he (Sir C. Napier) had seen the Admiralty go on building, tor the last fifteen or sixteen years, steamboats without any bottom at all, and in which the engines and boilers were so exposed as to be entirely unfit for war. When the Right Hon Baronet came into office, he had, very much to his credit, taken up steam. When Sir Thos. Hardy got into the Admiralty, he naturally concluded that there would be no difficulty in carrying out his views, but he had been disappointed, for the same system was continued. The building of the steam vessels had cost the country 359,585/. ; the fitting-up and machinery nearly the same amount. He did think that when they proceeded to lay out such an enormous sum, they should have paid the greatest possible attention to the construction of the vessels. All those imperfections of which he complained in the construction of man-of-war steamers, were attributable to the surveyors of the navy, for they had 'been built upon the principle applied to the construction of sailing vessels, without any consideration of the great difference that existed between the two classes of vessels. There was also some blame attachable to the engineers ; but he principally blamed the 13oard of Admiralty for not con- 20 12 5 23 THE SUN, LONDON. EVPNI sidering maturely , the maniVea In which they should have their fvai' sfearriers constructed ; and he had no ee'taiiOn whatever in saying, that not one of those war steamers, after having cost all this menu', was gt to take her place as a man-of-war, or hod :ii nor construction the smallest protectine fraii an adversary. In fact, the engieee , eet'd beams that worked the engines were so placed, that the first shot fired into one of them from an enemy's ship, would destroy both boilers and engines. and blow her up. The beam that teetked the engines was on the top of the eylinler, so that the first shot fired at it, Would blow up the ship. Whereas, if those war steamers had been built of a sufficient depth, and the engines and boilers placed below the water, the works would be so far safe ; and if the Board of !Admi ralty had so ordered the construction of them, he had no doubt but that every engineer in the country would say it could be done. He also found that in the mode of taking in coals, those vessels were equally defective, and inconveniently contrived.—( Hear.) These observations, he begged it to be understood, applied to corvettes, which were commanded by commanders. He now came to an other class—namely, steam-frigates. The first he would mention was the Gorgon, which cost the country 28,000/. to construct ; yet she was 1,200 tons heavier than a 46- gun sailing vessel; she had no means of firing guns from her main -deck, so that if she should be chased by a supe rior vessel to-morrow, she had no means of using more than one gun to defend herself. When this vessel was put in the water it was found that she had this defect, and then, indeed, it was said that she was never intended to carry guns on her main deck. In answer to that, all he would say was, that if she was so in tended, she could not carry them; and if she was not, those who built her kneW nothing about it.—(Hear and laughter.) Well, the Board of Admiralty, having seen their mistake in respect to this vessel, it was to be ex pected they would try to correct it in the next. But what was their next step? The next vessel they built was the Cyclops, which cost 27,000/, ; she, like the Gorgon, had rings and ports, &c., for main-deck guns, and yet, when she was latinched, she was found to have the very same defects as the Gorgon.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) In order that the Cyclops might look beautiful on the water, her lower ports had to be caulked up. and instead of being able to carry four guns on her main deck, she could not carry one.—(Hear. hear.) He had no hesitation in saying that if these vessels were properly constructed, they would be able to fight two guns at the head, two at the bow, two at the stern, and two in the quarters. The tonnage of the whole of these vessels was 12,872 tons, and the whole amount of cost was 290,022/. There was the Firebrand, of 1,190 tons ; the Gladiator, of 1,210 tons ; the Samson, of 1,299 tons ; the Scourge, of 1,190 tons—all of them in the same category with the steam corvettes that he had men tioned. Not one of them had any main-deck guns—not one of them had ports fit for stern guns. It was, he confessed, astonishing to him—he could not und , rstand how it was possible, when the Board of Admiralty had plans and models laid before them of ships, whether men-of-war or steam-ships, that they could omit asking the constructor where were his bow guns, and where were his stern-guns. " I see your drawings and your models, but I do not see a single ship with two guns at its head or at its stern." He admitted they had two bow-ports, but he should like to see the man who could work them. It was almost impossible to do so. Certainly it could not be done with efficiency. The last vessel constructed was the Retribution. She was an enormous vessel, of 1,611 tons, being nearly as large as their old line-of-battle ships. Now, would the House believe it—she was to carry only one gun on a pivot made for it. The necessity of carrying a few guns never entered into the heads of those who built her, and, instead of carrying her engines sufficiently low,she was even more exposed than smaller vessels. Her paddles plunged under water forty inches. She was without a single gun on her main deck or on her stern. He was perfectly assured that if she had been only 500 tons, she would have been better than she was at present. As to main deck ports, they were not even thought of, and she plunged most violently when she went to Chatham. He would now come to the last ship of all, the Terrible. which was built by Mr. Lang. She was a vessel of 1,840 tons, and was certainly the best steam-vessel in the navy. After commencing with sharp-bottomed ves sels, the Admiralty were obliged to listen to the remon strances which were made ; and the Surveyor of the Navy, who would nat listen to any suggestions, instead of acknowledging at once that sharp bottoms were not fit for steamers, was gradually but slowly approaching to the flat-bottom system. But would the House believe that this large and superior vessel had only twelve guns on the main-deck—six before and six abaft; and though he admitted that they could put guns in her bows, it would be impossible for any person to work them. She had not a single stern gun on the main deck. He did not know the number of steam-vessels en the stocks, or how far advanced they were ; but whatever state they were in, it was much better to pull them to pieces than proceed with them in their present state. The money— the enormous sums of money—expended in building them, might as well be thrown to the winds. If they went to war, they would find that steam-boats were no more to the navy than cavalry were to the army. Two cavalry regiments might as well be sent against one an other for an afternoon's amusement, as two steam boats. Their proper use was harassing the enemy's rear, and how could they do that, when they had no guns to point at them ? He had seen them all with;his own eyes, and could speak of the manner in which they had been designed. The other use for steam-boats was to cover a retreat. If a squadron were retreating, steam-boats would be found useful to cover its rear, and if- steam-boats were sent in pursuit vessels of the same construction could best con tend with them, hut how could our steam-boats do 39 when they had no guns pointed to the stern. Sir G. COCKBURN—There are. Sir C. NAPIER—On the main-deck? Sir G. COCKNUAIi-- WU silent. Sir C. NAPIER proceeded. He had been told he looked at the state of the navy with a jaundiced eye. Such was not the case. He stated broad facts, which, upon inquiry, would be found perfectly true. On the main -deck, he repeated, not one. —t Hear, hear.) Let the members of the House of Commons go down and view them, and they would at once see that the guns could not be effectually worked on the main -deck, and if they did not, after a careful inspection, agree with him, he would never again talk about the navy. He was sorry fir having troubled th e H ouse at so muc h length, but f:;',i it his duty to do so. All h e as k e d f or was a Con2...,ittee._( Hear. ) Had they succeeded in their mode ship-building ?If not, it should be changed, and the 'east ascertained and acted upon ; a Commission if they had, why let ne continued. He p r ef erre d asking fur structi 'co inquire into th e wh o l e system of naval con se e reut gentlemen b e tt er acqua i nte d with the ru l es ee r customs of the House were of opinion that this was ' the more eligible mode, as by Making it a money question he had more chants of obtaining a Committee. He did not care whether it was a Committee or a Commission —they were new going to build a large number of steam-boats, and he asked the House not to grant one shilling until the con dition of the steam navy 'was fully and thoroughly inquired into. He knew this was not a very palatable subject, though from the manner in which the House had heard him, he had no reason to think so ; but a sense of duty compelled him to speak out the whole truth as he found it. He felt satisfied that if the public press had not taken up the question of the state of the navy in the manner it had done, it would have been use , less for him to have attempted to bring the !tatter forward. During the last twenty years, he had repeatedly called the at tention of those in power to the subject ; in fact, he had a large book fell of correspondence, but up to the present momen the had never been able to get them to listen to a single suggestion he had made.—( Hear, hear.) He had met with the greatest courtesy from the Gallant Officer opposite, He had no party feeling on this subject.—( Hear, hear.) He never introduced his politics into naval inquiries --she was only guided by a sense of what was due to the public, and only hoped to have the public money sdvantageouzly expended. The House ought to grant this Committee. He thought they were bound, out of regard for the members of the present naval administration, and for their predecessors, and in justice to the Surveyor of the Navy, and to the First Lord of the Admiralty, to accede to his mo. tion.—( Hear, hear.) It *mild then be seen whether they had been libelled or not. lielare a Committee he would undertake to prove every thing he had stated. The. Gallant Commodore set down amid much cheering, having again thanked the fldtise for the attention they had given him, and read the motion, which was as follows :—" A Select Committee to inquire into the manner in which the money voted since the year 1835 fur the construction of ships has beetr eiperided) and if the ships constructed are an improvement Of the aid system." Mr. HUME seconded the motion. The Hon. and Gallant Officer had ehallettged inquiry—he (Mr. Hume) thought he was entitled to it. He thought the country would not feel satiated unless a full and searching inquiry were made. He did not think, however, the present time Was at pro pee for itapiiry as on a previous occasion, when those great changes in the naval condition of the eistintfy were made. He thought the Right Hon. Baronet opposite had a great deal to answer for. On the 20th of June, 11;32, the Right Hon. Baronet used an expression which had often been quoted, and which was still fresh in his (Mr. Hume's) memory. He said that naval cap= tains were more competent to fill the office of surveyors of the navy than any other men, as much as to say that science was of no use in the construction of ships. The present question was one of the greatest iniportifiCe in a national point of view. The greatest commercial eouhtry in the world should have the most powerfal and effective engines at. sea. England was then, and had always been, very backward in the application of science to Ship-building. So defective was: the construetioti of ships during the war, that we were, obliged to imitate the construction of those Frenth, Spanish, anti avtti Swedish and Danish vessels, tellieh we captured. Surely it was the British-Who snoald have set the example in ,ship-buildinte, seeing that not only our maritime and commer cial greatness depended upon our naval superiority, bat even Our safety.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon, Gentleman then quoted from the Third Report of the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the affairs of the navy, which stated that haVal architecture had advanced to greater pm - iodide, and been more cherished among the Frenth than among any other people ; that little attention Was paid to it in this country ; and that the French employed then of the greatest talent and ability in the ecnstrection of ships, whilst we contented ourselves with creep; tog on in the dark„ in quest of such discoveries as elflike thight throw in our way. In consequence of the tecoffiniehdation of a Committee, a school for naval architecture was established, but, in 1832, the First Lord of the Admiralty abolished the system, and the greatest injustice had been done to the mem bers of it, who were never allowed to fill those statitits Which it was originally intended they should fill, and for whith their abilities qualified them. They had been taught ilgebri, trigonometry, fluctions, the calculus, and, in short, the whiffle system of mathematics, and were to have entered the most subordinate offices in the navy, rising gradually to higher offices as they merited. Such men would have been acquainted not only with the whole system of naval tactics, but would have been abl e t o suggest improvements founded upon their scientific and practical knowledge.—( Hear, hear.) A great deal of money had been thrown away in remodelling old ships—it would have been much cheaper to have built new ones, than continually tinkering with those built upon an en tirely different construction. Ho first thought the Commission preferable, he would most willingly assent to it, but he vrould at all events second with much pleasure the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Commodore. Sir GEORGE COCKBURN said his Gallant Friend op posite had begun his statement by going so far back as the year 1806. Now it was not his ( Sir G. Cockburn's) intention to follow him through the whole of that statement, nor would he be able to do so if he were inclined, neither would he seek to defend certain defects in vessels to which he had alluded. But this he would beg of the Gallant Officer and the House to remem ber, that during a great portion of the time of which the Gallant Officer had been speaking, the art of ship-building was by no means so perfect as it had become of late.---( Hear, hear.) He could not deny that the class of vessels which the Gallant Officer had found fault with, were of a very bad description. Forty-gun brigs had since been deemed unworthy; they had become bad by reason of the dry rot having got into them, and many of the m h a d , been Or&trod to he ' , silt and were fuTtd,to nate !!lade very excellent frigates. Whether this was a prudent course er not, he would not pretend to say, but when it was done there was nothing to psi-vent the authorities of that day from taking that course. He would now come to the charges which had been made against the Admiralty Board, and he would wish to draw the etteetien dl' the House td the first cf those charges that applied to the present Hoard, be cause ne did not feel that he was bound to defend the acts of that Board before he and his colleagues came into office— ( Hoar, hear.) He would begin, then, with the period when he did come into office, and he would premise by requesting of the House to consider the position in which he and hi s col leagues were pla ce d at that time, in reference to the Navy Board, and particularly in reference to their position with Sir William Symonds. —( Hear, hear.) Every one was aware of the feeling that existed in regard to that gentleman ; and, therefore, if the first act of the new Board was to stop all the ships then in course of building under the direction of Sir William Symonds, would it not be said that he had not been treated as he deserved.—( Hear.) Many of the most excellent and valued officers in the navy considered that that officer had done the navy and the service very great benefit.---( Hear. ) But the Gallant Officer opposite and the House should recollect that when he ( Sir G. C.) came into office, the Queen, with which the Gallant Officer had found so much fault, was in pro gress of being built, and when she was completed, the Admi ralty Board sent her to sea, in order to try her power.— Hear.) She went to the Mediterranean ; and the next the Board heard of her was, that she was a very excellent ship, and that she had the advautage of all the ether vessels of the same class, except the Vanguard. That vessel had also been ordered by Sir William Symonds; and he (Sir G. C.) would ask, would it have been just in the Board when they came in to have stopped her?—(Hear.) But here let him say, in defence of the present Admiralty, that when they did come in, they re solved not to build any more until those in progress should have been completed and tried—(Hear)—and when they had heard of the sort of vessel the Albion was, they stopped the further building of a ll t h e others.—( Hear.) When he (Sir G. C. ) came into office, the Admiralty Board, without mean ing the slightest disrespect to Sir W. Symonds, or to question his merits in the least, resolved to form a committee of all the most talented masters of ships, to whom they gave directions to report to them upon the best mode of arming the sterns and prows of those vessels.—( Hear.) That report was made, and laid before the Surveyor -General of the Board, and he cer tainly did differ from much that it contained.—( Hear.) With regard to the Queen being so defe.tive as the Gallant Officer opposite had stated, he ( Sir G. C.) begged to say that the rea son she was put into dock and altered was, because the surveyor had stated that the reason she was so defective was because she required those alterations, and, therefore, she got them. In the meantime the Admiralty Board did the best they could to remedy any other defective vessels, and with this view they had selected three of the best naval architects they could find to examine all the other vessels said to be defective, to report upon their faults, and to take care that those faults should be avoided in all future vessels.—( Hear, hear.) He did not mean to say that the officers employed by the present Board of Admiralty were superior to those they had succeeded, sad it was but fair of him to say that Sir W. Symonds was inferior to none of them.—( Hear, hear.) He (Sir G. Cockburn) should, at the same time, say that Mr. White had shown very superior qualifications in his office, and had done one of the most extraordinary feats in improving a vessel, that, perhaps, had ever been heard of. The Board had picked out a 42-gun ship, and cut off her bows, and Mr. White was employed to put new bows to her, and in this he had succeeded so well, that the vessel, upon being sent out on trial, performed her voyage without letting in any water, which was a very desirable perfection.—( Hear, hear.) Again, he would say, that the Board deserved credit for not doing anything likely to wound the feelings of Sir W. Symonds, by being in too great a hurry to upset the works they found going on when they cause into office.—( Hear, hear.) In the meantime, if the Admiralty should find that defects existed in the Albion and the Queen, and the other vessels on the stocks, care would be taken that they should be made good ships of.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to what had been said by an Hon. Member, in reference to shipwrights' apprenticeship, the Board had resolved to pay every attention to that subject also. It had. been observed that the whole of this subject ought to be referred to a Committee of the House of Commons. Now, he begged to say, that his impression was, that such a Committee would be the very worst authority to which such a subject could be referred. He could assure the Gallant Officer and the House that the Admiralty Board would take up the subject, and bestow upon it all the attention in their power, and devote their best energies towards remedy ing all defects ; and if they were found to be incompetent to do so, then it would be their duty to res i gn t h e i r o ffi ce to the Gallant Officer opposite, or to any one else whom the House and the country might deem better fitted to discharge their duties.—( Hear, hear.) Then, with regard to what had been said by the Gallant Officer about mailing-ships ; the Gal lant Officer could not be more anxious to avoid defects in those vessels also, than the Navy Board ; but to those vessels also the same observations applied as to the steam-vessels, namely, that most of them had been contracted f or b e f ore the present Board came into office.—( Hear, hear.) The present Board had no intention to put guns on the main-deck of war steamers, for if they were fitted up with guns, it would ma terially retard their progress. His impression was that those vessels should have their guns so disposed of as to enable them, when they took their stations, to fire upon the enemy with perfect impunity.—( Hear.) He did not approve of putting too many guns in those vessels, for it was of vast importance that they should be kept at their proper work.—( Hear, hear.) The Admiralty were now en gaged in building some iron vessels and they had made it a sine qua non with the contract ors , ;hat each of these vessels should have the power of firing two guns on her main-deck forward, and two aft.—( Hear, hear.) He did not know that it would be necessary for him to detain the House any longer; but, in conclusion, ho would say that he knew what the strength of the French navy was, and he knew what that of England was, and he was happy to be in a position to state that the naval force of England was much better and larger than that of France, notwithstanding all that had been said to the contrary.—( Hear, hear.) Captain RODS conceived that the navy and the country were greatly indebted to the Hon. and Gallant Member who had introduced this subject to the House.--( Hear, hear. ) He would also admit that the Hen. Baronet on the Treasury Bench had done good service to the country by upsetting the Royal Naval College.—( Hear, hear.) As to what had been said about vessels built with round sterns, there appeared to have been at one time a mania for constituting vessels in that way, and millions of money were thus expended, and it could not have been more uselessly employed He had commanded a corvette, and other vessels, so built, and he could say that not a vessel in the service with a round stern could fire a stern gun, because the muzzle of the gun could never be brought sufficiently close to the port. —( Hear, hear.) And yet he felt satisfied that nearly one eighth of the national debt had been incurred by building vessels ott this defective plan.—( Hear, hear.) Yet the same bad system was going on, and the result would be that those vessels never could go to sea.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Meraber next alluded to abuses existing in the practices of the dock-yard officers; for when the Admiralty Board ordered a report of the defects of a vessel, a sum nearly double that ne cessary was always set forth in the report as that re quisite for the purpose, and the Admiralty had no possible means of knowing whether it was too much or too little. He merely Mentioned tbese facts, because he thought no surveyor ought to be allowed to build models until they had been certified by a scientific man.—( Hear, hear.) Premiums should be given to the gentleman who produced the best model, and the field for supplying them throWn open to competition. If they wanted to build steamers, let them go to the builder of the Great Britain, or Mr. Napier, and not confine themselves to gentlemen brought up in the royal dockyards, whose educa tion was generally very circumscribed. He had commanded every species of brig-corvette, and he could say, without fear of contradiction, that none of them were fit to go to sea. They might be splendid vestels,• but really he never could discover any remarkable beauty about them. What he had been saying for the last ten or twelve years, he was still compelled to repeat, be it ever so tedious or unpleasant. He had remarked, and every ether good seaman who went before him had done the same, that Sir William Symonds' ships were total failures. His first vessel was the Flying Fish, and everybody connected with the navy was aware of its utter inefficiency for hard ser vice; or, in faet, service of any sort. Their three-deckers were Whites, solely because they made them without flat floors. Yet the Admiralty still persisted in building them without this appendage, an act of which he had often heard it said, no man in his sober senses would be guilty. Sir William Symonds' first frigate, he admitted, was a magnificent ship. She had tome remarkably fine points about her, but she was exceedingly sharp its the water, and in Many other respects (termite. But perhaps tome of Sir Writ. Symonds' friends would say he had introduced improve ments of late. Now, he was prepared to assert that the Snake, which he built a short time back, was equally at bad a ship— having the same defects its the Plying Fish; Which he built so far back as tett Veers ago. He was conscious df the defects in these ships whin he held a post in her Majesty's service, bait it Would have been a source of great annoyance at Well as iiieoh venience Us hint if he had ventured to speak his mind upon the subject then. The Admiralty a ppeared to look upon a confes sion of this sort as a personal reflection upon them, end this de terred many of her Majesty's officers rota speaking their minds en the subject. they were identified With Sir William Sytitotids, and no doubt had determined td sink O r With him. Ten years had however elapsed, since the time he spoke of, but Hula dr no charge had taken place. Certainly, the Administration had changed,but their successors had unfortunately been upwards of three years making up their minds es to the rilefits of tine of Sir William Symonds' frigate'° they had been all this while endeavouring to discover if she *as a fast vessel, and yet they had not eonie to any deeision. RIR the duets of this was plain enough: If, When he was in the service; he had been sent out to Malta with a ship, with specific orders to report Upon her sailing upon a magnificent breete, what vrotild have become of him if he had reported un f avourably? W hy, he would have been plain Mr. Ross at this moment, instead of Captain Roue.—(Laughter.) Sir William Sytrionds' ships had, from this very reason, been describ e d a s s u p eri or Vesse l s in every respect: He did not wish to be utideritodd as finding fault with Sir W. Symonds, because he was quite aWart that it Was by the direction of, the AdMiralty th at h e tiperided millienS ih the building of these defective ships. Nor was it his fault that the vessels were defective. He was not brought up to the profession of a ship-builder, and was by no means a scientific man. But why could not the Admiralty decide at once upon the merits of the Queen? Tht atiswet he hid wt.% " there is tio wind:" " What, no wind t' At ono time he was sure it was plentiftil, but new they had a difficulty of finding a good breete between the Weit Indies and Lisbon.— (Latighter. ) It really was too bad. Here had they be*ti three years trying this model, and still they had not come to a decision, nor were they likely to arrive at any in another three years. He was as anxious as any one ti know the troth' slid , *it Confident; if theY would give Orbiter directions , a gale or wind wo uld very soon fotled.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) With respect to the future, what the Admiralty wanted, was an active man like Sir W. Symonds, for he certainly was au active than, to in spect what was going ott ill the ddcityards.—( Hear, hear.) This would piit all ehd td the present Baste arid Wish ex pendithre. Sir William Symonds would b e a Useful man Id them ih this ,way, but if they Clewed liini to lay (khan his linels and build ships iipon them; the defects riompained of *mild never be remedied. Let him lay do wn other men'e lines if they would, and then there would be a pos sibility of his building. an efficient, seasicirthy Vessel: He had little more to ferhark, tint. it 411 events; hetlier the Hoe. and Gallant ComModore succeeded with his thotitin or slot; he Was sure it *mild be prdductive of great public benefit.—(Heer, hear.) .He expected I,t would receive More support froth the other side of th e House than his. - there was much more public spirit on the Opposition side, and the navy had always looked upon them as their friends in that House. lf, in psis warmth: he had given utterance to spy eXpression calculated to hurt the feelings of any member of the Board of Admiralty, he could only express his regret for it. Ile naturally took a great interest in the subject. He had left the service, because he would not countenance the principle which had guided the Board, and he need hardly say he still felt as deeply on the matter. Mr. C. WOOD did not think this discussion would be productive of any great advantage to the navy, nor did he believe an inquiry would produce those beneficial results which some lion. and Gallant Members seemed to anticipate. lie must say the subject was so en tangled with technicalities that it was quite impossible for the House to comprehend it. It would be quite unintelligible to most Hon. Members, and for this reason, he could not agree to the motion. But the Hon. and Gallant Commodore had advanced little or nothing to 'ustify an inquiry being insti. M, FIT 13 It UAII Y 14 • t n!ed. The, ihm. and G a ll ant Gentleman related the ex perience 11e had had since 18001 ddein to 1830, and he con demned every class of vessels but the Ito ktiii-ship's vein utterly useless. The 74 and th e 64- gun s hi ps he prenotinct" . were useless; the 36 and 28-gun frigates were little better. The 18-gun brigs and 16-gun sloops were defective, and, in fact, he condemned thtnl all dotn to the ten-gun sloops. But the Whole atid Sole objCct of the Attack was Sir William Symonds, and of course the eight or nine classes of vesseM built by that gentleman were all :defective. One Hon. Gentleman, host• ever, admitted that the Vernon answered perfectly well, and the twenty-six-gun ships and sixteen-gun brigs were ex ceedingly beautiful. All the ships which had been built on Sir William Symonds' principle, since 1835, had been uni versally approved by the officers of the navy. The Hon. and Gallant Officer (Sir C. Napier) had himself admitted that there was a considerable difference between the bow of Sir William Symonds' last ship and that of his first. Why, this at least proved that he was ready to adopt any improvements which were calculated to benefit the service.—( Hear.) With regard to the Queen, the Hon. and Gallant Officer said that six Queens were laid down by order of the late Board o Admiralty. He did not think that statement was quite borne out. This vessel was launched in 1839 ; and for the first three years all the reports with regard to her were extremely favourable. The Hon. and Gallant Officer had made many assertions on the subject; whether he was warranted er not in his assertions, he could not say; but the official documents were so much in favour of the Queen, that four other vessels of the same character had been laid down, and though they had since been stopped, he maintained that the documents justified the Board in the course which they pursued. With regard to the Albion, although the Hon. and Gallant Officer said that she was not able to fire her guns, the report stated that she was a very stiff ship and sailed better than any other in the squadron.—( Hear, hear.) The fifty-gun frigate, the twenty-six-gnn frigate, and the eighty-gun ship had each received favourable testimony from the Hon. and Gallant officer himself ; and he had read a most favourable report of the 110-gun ship and the 90- gun s hi p w hil st i n t h e Mediterranean. Each class had, in fact, received his ap proval. Yet, after condemding universally every class of ships built before 1835, he now called on the House to condemn the Board of Admiralty for their conduct with respect to ships whose mode of construction had received from him the most favourable testimony which it was possible for ships to receive. —( Hear, hear.) With respect to the question of expense, it certainly appeared to be established that a clear saving had been effected. He really did not know on what earthly ground the motion was to be sap ported. With regard to the steamers he would only re mark that at the time when he (Mr. C. Wood) left the Admiralty, all the steamers eonstructed were more or less experimental. He did not think, in fact, that it was possible at present for any person to give a clear and decided opinion either as to the effect which steam navigation would have, or the best mode of arming and constructing steam-vessels.— ( Hear.) Some time must elapse before any opinion could be formed. The whole system of steam navigation was in a course of experiment; and feeling confident that no effort would be spared by the Board of Admiralty to do all that was necessary for the safety and security of the country in any future war, he would willingly leave the question in their hands. Admiral BOWLES said he should not have risen but for the allusion made to himself by the Hon. and Gallant Officer who had introduced this subject, and also by the Hon. and Gal lant Member for Westminster. The complaint made against him by these two Hon. Members was, that he did not find a gale of wind, or stay out to meet it. That he did not find it, was certainly not his own fault.—( Laughter.) Why he should stay out at the risk of injuring valuable masts and in curring a damage of several thousand pounds, merely to have bad weather, he could not possibly conceive.—( Hear, hear.) He was surprised to bear old sailors talk in such a manner. With regard to the Albion, he must say that he believed when at sea she would not be found to roll more than other ships of the same class.—( Hear, hear.) As to her not fight ing her guns when other ships would do so, he believed that any apprehension on that subject would turn out to be un founded. As far as it was safe to hazard an opinion with re spect to the Queen, he would state that it was his conviction, that when tried again, after a few alterations, she would be found a safe and fast-sailing vessel. He could not conclude without taking that opportunity of reminding the House what a debt of gratitude they owed to the members of the Yacht Club, who, having devoted themselves to the truly British amusement of yacht sailing, had, from their position and influence, exercised a very beneficial influence upon the improvement of naval architecture. Two amongst those gentlemen deserved special honour and respect. One of them was Lord Vernon, who unhappily had not survived to witness the benefit of those improvements to which he had so greatly contributed ; the other was the Duke of Portland.—( Hear, hear.) Before Sir William Symonds was allowed to build his first ship, the Columbine, Lord Vernon actually gave his personal guarantee to the Admiralty that in the event of failure he would defray the whole expense. He thought that such persons were well entitled to the gratitude of the whole country. With respect to Sir William Symonds, he believed that the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department never did greater service to the country than by appointing him to the office which he ao wor thily filled; and with whatever calumnies and misrepresentations he might be assailed, he felt convinced when Sir W. Symonds retired from office, he would have the proud satisfaction of knowing that he had contributed, perhaps, more than any other officer in the British navy, to the improvement of that branch of the public service.—( Cheers. ) Capt. PECHELL said that, however good the construction of the ships might be, still there was reason to complain of the mode in which they were tried. He fully concurred in the praise accorded to Sir Wm. Symonds; but that was altogether a different question from the one raised by his Honourable and Gallant Friend. He could not help complaining that when a ship of the old construction had been im proved in her bow, and made a most valuable vessel, in the last year, she was sent to the Gallant Admiral then in command on the Irish station, and for nine months she lay in the Shannon, to assist in the collection of the poor-rates. — (Laughter.) He had observed the experiment with great anx iety, and the result was that he was convinced of the efficiency of the Rattler. He hoped that, whatever determination the Government came to with respect to the employment of the Arehimedien screw, and the ordinary paddles, they would look carefully to the experiments that had been made. Mr. CORRY said, the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Officer implied an indirect censure upon the Board of Ad miralty, of which, he could assure the House, they were most undeserving. for to no one branch of their public duties had they devoted mere anxious attention than to the improve ments in the construction of our ships of war. When her Majesty's present Administration entered upon office, they found nineteen ships-of-the-line building, or ordered to be built ; and the whole of those ships were upon the lines of the Surveyor-General of the Navy. If, therefore, they had hesitated at continuing the building of those ships, they must have abandoned altogether the building of the vessels in course of construction in the dockyards ; and how could they have justified ;such a proceeding ? It was true that, at that time, only one of the Surveyor-General's ships had been at sea—the Vanguard ; but he held in his hand the highest testimonials as to her capabilities. In July, 1836, the Honourable Captain D. P. Bouverie reported that " on all occasions her working was admirable and sur passed our fullest expectations ; and I have no doubt that she will prove herself to possess every geed quality, and that she is a perfect man-of-war." Captain Martin of the Caledonia, said, " The Vanguard hauled out of the line just like a cutter, and went away to windward of the whole squad ron, and was six miles on our weather-beam in three hours and a-half." He (Mr. Corry) was also in possession of other reports relative to the qualities of the Vanguard, and he be lieved it would be admitted that she was a most excellent man-of-war. Shortly after the present Ministry came into office, the Queen was commissioned and sent to sea, and in structions were given that her qualities should be tested. She was tried on several occasions, and, on the sth of June, 1842, Sir Edward Owen wrote—" I have called for the reports of the qualities of the several ships, and hope to have them for enclosure in this letter. In the meantime I may say that so far as my own observations went, no one of the ships, except the Vanguard, could compete with her Majesty's ship, the Queen, whether in easiness of motion, or in sailing. She does not so well answer under low sail, but bears pressing with her canvass, and answers to it by her power. I have no difficulty in pronouncing the Queen a ship superior to all three-deckers, and to most of those with two decks." Captain Rich, of the Calcutta, also wrote on the 6th of June, 1842 : " With respect to the comparison between this ship and the Queen, there can be no doubt, in my opinion, as to the supe riority of the latter in every point, namely, in sailing, working, stability, and weatherly qualities." This opinion he con sidered the more valuable as being given by the commander of a vessel which was placed in competition with the Queen ; and the House was well aware of the pride which naval officers generally felt in the qualities of their own ships. He (Mr. Corry) had in his possession various other reports in which equally favourable opinions were given of the powers and Capabilities of the Queen. On the ether hand, the Admiralty had no reports which would have justified them in suSpenditig the building of the other vessels which were theft in course of eonstruetion by the Surveyor-General But when the squadron commanded by his Hon. and Gallant Friend behind him went to sea, the Admiralty did not wait tee be rerrlinded of their duty, but they at once ordered the einstruetion of the ships of the Queen class and of the Albion class to be suspended, until the qualities of the Queen and the Albion had been efficiently tested ; and he hoped that, in the ensuing snrlng, ample dripotttiiiity would be afforded for ascer taining the powers and qualities of those ships. During the three years her Majesty's present advisers had been in office, they had ordered sixty-eight ships of various classes to be built, and of that number etily twenty-nine were built under the direction of the Surveyor of the Navy, the remaining thirty nine being built on the plans of . other parties. They had now its progress four ships of the line, six frigates, six smaller vessels, and twenty-three steamers, tint by the Surveyor of the Navy. The Admiralty w e re most ansidits to avail thenisel*es of all the talent and experience to which they rattld have recduse, fof the itriprevernent of our steam navy. (Hear, hear.) Ite might observe that among these vessels Which had been recently built, not by the Surveyer of the were toter set the litigs which formed-part of the late ex periniental brig squadron ; and the result of that experiment had established the advantages of the new over the old Method of shipbuilding, for every one of the new brigs had proved greatly superior to the cruiser. But the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Comdtociore had special reference to steam-ves sels ; and he believed the lion. and Gallant Officer had stored tbit'we had not doe Steam=ship of art; character in our teary. Tho got. nod Oaliant CoMmodore most excuse hind (Mr. Corry) as a civilian, for differing With hist iii dpioion ort this Subject and he must beg the House to bear in mind that riaOtidtil g&ithriten were not quite unanimous in their opiniciti§ oh thm illicitioti,,especially as to the construction of ships of War. The Hod. and (Mika Member (Si r Charles Napier) had Stated that the French d'af-steirfidrs nere 4rea.o7 sOperiOr to durl. [Sir C. Napier here Made an ob seivatton atrost thd fable. ) At all e*en'ts, if the Hdn. and Gallant Officer had not said so to-eight, he had made the statement in private conversation. But the House wcitild re- Coilea, that a Paper appeared last year, which was attributed to an illustrious add Gallant hclatiral of the French navy, and in which the folleWing passage oectirted •—" When the Gerkon arid Cyclops sailed from the ports of England, we were struck With thelf feirce as ships of war as well as with their admirable qualities as sea uOits ; dnd we therefore evinced a laudable anxiety to procure desigei4 and other data required fdr the reinforcement of our navy with vessels of a. similar descriptioh. The attempt proved a eorriplete failure, and, there are not now in the whole French navy lii stearn-vessels that can be compared with these i n the English navy. To tor tti tt ridtiori of the actual force of th i s rv. steam navy (the English) it is neoessety to havt!, and observe d bow formidable is its armament, and with what skil ful foresight ever . ttht - ifi; has been studied. d Th o . y all de. . steamers have not been built grid rarrisentru. g in e': ter ld them there e c En i a r cripiions of service indiscriminately: _l ar l . 9 1 They unite great nas seer btlt one thought, one object —w speed and a powerful that ha d did not mean to say we [Me Corry) troops." lie . ----- in the construction of steam boats; but he believed t attained anything like A Gallant Officer opposite had re ferredbited some improvements.. pe h rf a e t ct e i v o e n r ) was convinced that the experiments made upon to the long detention of the Rattler at Woolwich ; but he (Mr. Corry that vessel had gone very far to test the merits of the screw. He must say that be thought all questions relative to the con struction of our ships of war might safely be left in the hands of those who were constitutionally responsible for the conduct of naval affairs—( Hear, hear)—and he therefore felt it his duty to oppose the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Officer. Capt. HARRIS thought it was his duty, as a member of the naval profeesion to thank the Gallant Commodore for having 1845. hfought this stihjeei under the consideration of the House. 'A gdod deal had been said etiont the building of ships, but it was much easier to point out objections then to show how they *ere to be built. He did not think the Gallant Commodore Would din the object he hid view, even if his motion were carried ; but he Wes of opinion that there ought to be some in quiry into the subject, dud that a Commission should be ap pointed.---(Hear, hear.) the did riot think that Ad m iralty could give, with the other duties they had to perform, sufficient Attention to the subject. He approved of a great deal of what Sir Wm. Elymonds had done, though he had failed in some things. With regard to the armament of frigates, he thought it was a fault not to suit the weight of rectal to the quantity of timber. For instance, there were the Winchester, and the Pique, two frigates now in commission. The former was of 1 636 tons, and had thirty-six guns of 32-pounders. The latter was of 1,436 tons, being 200 less than the other, and she eatried 52 guns of a smaller calibre, and any person, upon referring td the naval history of the country, would see that where the number of guns and their weight were propor tioned to the timber of the Vessel, she was more effective than when that proportion was not kept tip. The same was observ able with regard to the Carnatic and the Belvidere. The former was a 26-gun ship of 32-pounders, and of 900 tons ; the latter carried 42 guns, making a difference of 16 guns, while there was only a difference of 35 in the tonnage. He looked with satisfaction to the efforts which were now snaking to increase the naval force and steam navigation of the country. Mr. WAKLEY said that the House ought to be indebted to his Hon. and Gallant Friend for bringing this motion before the House. He was entitled to its gratitude, and whether he failed or not, his labours en this question would entitle him to, and he would receive the gratitude of, the public. That sub ject had been discussed almost ever since he had a seat in the House, and it was always made a sham question by official persons on both sides of the House. It was now time that the subject should be seriously considered, for it was one in which the public took the greatest possible interest. The navy was the favourite service of the people of England, and no man would refuse his share of any reasonable expenses to keep it in an efficient state. His Hon. and Gallant Friend had shown, in his own and peculiar language, that several ships had been seriously damaged, but there was one vessel, called " The Admiralty,"—(Laughter)--which he did not believe would recover from the damage it had received on this occa sion, unless those who manned it made inquiries how so much money had been wasted in building ships which were declared to be not fit for service. What had been said by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Westminster had perfectly astonished him. He said that ships had been built in the dock-yards, which cost a tenth—he said it first, and then an eighth--of the national debt, in building ships which had never gone to sea, and were never fit to go to sea. He said that that statement perfectly astonished him, coming as it did from the Hon. and Gallant Captain, who had rendered such great services to his country—whose name would be respected wherever it was known—who always spoke his mind freely, and said what he thought on every subject to which he gave his attention. The allegations and arguments he put forward would make their impression out of doors, whatever might be their effect in that House; but he ( Mr. Wakley) was one of those who thought that the appointment of a Committee was not suitable to the emergency. He did not think that it would lead to any prac tical result, for there were none in that House who understood the subject except naval officers, and they, perhaps, would be jealous of each other, and there might be a powerrel firing of broadsides on each side of the table if they alone were: o compose the Committee. The Hon. and Gallant Captains aid he did not believe the Lords of the Admiralty would know one ship from another, or scarcely a three-decker from a New castle collier.—(Laughter.) If that were the case with respect to Lords of the Admiralty, how much worse with those who had no connexion with naval matters. The Hon. Gen tleman the Secretary to the Admiralty, who had been pro moted from a Lord to a Secretary, had sought permission which he could not very well understand, to have those things left with them. Why those things had been left to the Admiralty long enough. The Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Halifax, got up and spoke in defence of the existing Board. Why, to he sure he did. He had been Secretary to the Admiralty himself. There was always an understanding between the official ins and out.. — (Laughter.) He did not mean to say that there was any re gular compact between them, but the thing was understood. This subject was too important to be understood to be got rid of in this way, after the statement made by officers who had ob tained so much renown, and whose names were identical with the glory of this country. When the public understood the subject, they would require a full, a complete, and a searching investigation. The Hon. and Gallant Captain had alluded to the experiments made by the vessels built under Sir William Symonds, but he omitted to remark that the vessels which he belt, and were put upon their trial, had not their full comple ment of stores and water, so that the vessels did not draw so much water as if they had their full complement, and, there tgre, the experiment was not complete. The First Lord of the Admiralty addressed the House with regard to steamers, and he heard, for the first time, that they were to give such enormous sums for building steam-vessels which were only to carry three or four guns, two in _their bows and two in their st ern . W as that to be the case ? Why, supposing such steamers were to encounter those that had broadsides and guns, what would be the condition of their steamers?—(Hear.) Such was the idea which this country had of war-steamers. He had heard a naval officer state that the application of steam to ships would change the whole naval tactics of this country. The Hon. Gentleman on the other side of the House had laid great stress on what had been said by a foreign Admiral. Why, was it not natural that be should wish to increase the naval power of his own country? It was of course his object to make the naval power of this country appear as small as possible.— ( Laughter, and cries of ,‘ No, no.") He looked through the large end of the telescope, and saw our navy as small as he could.—( Laughter.) Yes, he looked through the large end of the telescope, and saw the navy of this country under the smallest aspect possible.—(Laughter, and cri e s o f *" That is not what you mean.") He looked through the large end, and saw our navy as small as he could.—(Continued laughter, arid cries of " Try back.") He begged pardon; Hon. Gentlemen were right, and he was wrong. What he meant to say was, that the foreign officer saw the navy of this country in its real magnitude; but he misrepresented its power in his own country. He represented it as much as possible— making it appear larger than it really was, in order to induce his own country to exhibit all their national energy—to make exertions so as to compete with this country in the time of war. Now, he could place no re liance on such a statement, but it was the duty, the especial duty of Englishmen, to look to that force, which must be their security and the great pillar of their protection. —( Hear, hear.) Was it not an alarming fact that such large ships had been built at such an enormous cost, and such large sums of money squandered at a time, while it was stated by the Gallant Officer, they were not fit to encounter the" raging sea?" Was it not monstrous that they should have proceeded in this way for so long a period ? Something, he admitted, was done, but they had gone indeed but a small way in the right road. His Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) alluded to the aid of science in such a service as the navy, and he regretted that the school of naval architecture, which was so well calculated to educate persons for that parti cular purpose, had been destroyed. They had now no such school while they were to be found throughout the Continent. Considering how the country was situated, he was of opinion, as one of the public as well as a Member of that House, that hat there ought to be a searching inquiry into the state of the navy, and that there should be a close investigation, which he thought could be best made by a Royal Commis sion, composed of experienced persons, for the discharge of whose duties the Executive Government would be responsible. He should therefore advise his Hon. and Gallant Friend to withdraw his motion, because he was afraid if he pursued it to a division many persons would be placed in an unfavour able light out of doors, who, though they were of opinion that the inquiry was necessary, might yet vote against the motion of his Hon. and Gallant Triend, because, if carried, it would lead to no practical result. He might then give notice of a motion for an address to the Crown, to appoint a Commission for the purpose intended by the motion nos: before the House. Sir CHARLES NAPIER replied he had heard the remark that such and such a person was good in debate, , 1 2 . iit he had never heard that a good debater had recourse to perverting the language of persons who spoke before him, and he had no hesitation in saying that the Hon. Member for Halifax had most completely perverted his language. The Hon. Gentleman said that he had condemned every class of ships built by other builders except the large class of three-deckers and the eigh teen-gun brigs. Now he most distinctly denied that. He said that all the three-decked ships except the ninety-eights and the nineties were good, that all the seventy-fours, the eighty-fours, and the eighties, were good, and even down to the sixty-fours,. with the exception of the " forty-thieves ;" that the thirty-twos and twenty-twos were also good, but that the twenty-eight gun donkeys, and the ten-gun brigs were good for no. thing. He was, therefore, surprised that the Hon. Gentleman put words into his month which he had never used. The Gal lant Officer at the head of the Admiralty had also misunder stood him. He seemed to think that he was of opinion that the forty thieves were in good condition, and that they ought not to have been cut down. Now he was just of the contrary opinion, for he thought the Gallant Officer had a perfect right to cut them down. The Gallant Officer had said that he had opened competition ; now he (Sir Charles Napier) must beg to differ with him upon that point, for he was satisfied that if the navy had been thrown open to public competition some years ago, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds would have been saved to the country. He considered that the Gallant Officer had so many duties now thrown upon him, that he would not be able to perform them all if he were cut in a dozen piece s . Th e Q ueen ' s yacht was a most imperfect vessel ; it could not b e s t eere d to within four or five points; and during the time her Majesty was on beard, she was not allowed to go more than six knots an hour; she was in fact, at the present moment, under going the same operations that the vessel called the Queen had undergone. There was not a single steam-boat in the possession of the Government that was worthy of the navy. He hoped they would come to a good steam-navy at last. The Gallant Officer opposite appeared to think that he was rather sev Or e upen him ; he could assure him that he did not intend t o be s d. He would not trouble the House further, but he felt bohnu: to say that unless the Government would cause some i nqu i ry to beene on the subject, he must divide the House upon his motion. the Hon. and Gallant Officer Mr. C. WOOD could asiur: that It was not his intention to perv,;:t the meaning of any thing he had stated. an. the House Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, divided, when there appeared— For the motioii . Against it ... Majority against the motion Mr. CHARLES HOPE obtained leave to bring in a 1301 for enabling the Commissioners of Greenwich Hospital to im prove a certain lane or street called Fisher-lane, in the paria of Greenwich, in the county of Kent, and for other purp oses.ri Mr. CHARLES HOPE also moved for leav e to l:iogpnl to g a 13111 for enabling the Commissioners of tGreenwichtwonwic'har i ita es, an grant leases of coals and minerals for fort y making a railway or tram-road from Gree collied for ry to Berwick-bridge. Mr. HUME objected to the Bill. Mr. HODSON HINDE eotertained gre at objections to the Bill H e was s ure if its provisions *ere 'mown and appre ciated it would never be brought forward. It was well known that Greenwich Hospital held large estates in the north of England, one of which, near Berwick-upon-Tweed, had under it some valuable seams of coals. These mines had been worked at a cons i d e rable loss, but if a better communication could be obtained between those mines and the'port of London, that which bad hitherto been a losing speculation would become a most profitable one. He had no objection to the parties obtaining the beet access to a shipping place, hut they were not entitled to come to that House and call. upon it to grant them powers to make a railway, not for public purposes, but for the interest of private individuals. If he was correctly informed, every individual landowner along the line was opposed to it ' - the lords of the manor, the Corporation of B erw i ck, and the Harbour Commissioners were opposed to it, as injurious to the trade of the port. The compulsory powers sought by this Bill would enable the House to lay down this railway along the side of a public highway for a considerable distance. He did not think that the Commis- sioners of the Hospital themselves were quite aware of the na ture of the Bill ; too much power and influence in such matters was often given to solicitors and others connected with such institu. ions. He was confident that if the Government bad been informed of the nature of the Bill it would never have been brought forward, and he trusted the statements against it would be inquired into by the Board of Trade. Having made these observations he should not think it his duty to take the sense of the House on the question. Mr. FOSTER suite agreed with the obtervations of the Hon. Member opposite. He was sure:that if the measure had ,1 , been investigated st would never have been brought forward• He should like to know what would lie the course pursued with respect to the present Bill? The SPEAKER said that it -would be referred to the Com mittee on Private Bills, to see that all the standing orders had been complied with. If that had been done, then the measure would be proceeded with precisely like any other privet!, Bill; no advantage whatever was gained by the manner in which the Bill was now introduced. Mr. FOSTER said, with the understanding that the Bill was to be referred to a Committee and undergo a full in vestigation he should be perfectly satisfied. But when in quired into it would be found that the objections to the meanie were perfectly just. Mr. LIDDELL also agreed in the remarks that had been made against the Bill. It was an invasion of private rights, and he could not understand why a pnblic body like Greenwich Hospital should be allowed to carry a compulsory railway through private property (not for a public line, but one which the public could not use) of a district where mining had been carried on for the last three hundred years, without the usual understanding with the proprietors of the land. He should oppose the second reading, unless he saw much stronger reasons for the measure than he did at present. Mr. HODGSON said it would be better if the Hon. Member who introduced the Bill would withdraw it at once ; it would save the House the trouble of throwing it out en the second reading, which would undoubtedly be done. Mr. BROTHERTON said the opposition to this Bill was one of the most extraordinary he had ever heard of. The speech of the Hon. Gentleman opposite, against the measure, had persuaded him that it ought to be introduced. He sur pected that there was some private interest at work behind, against the measure. Mr. FOSTER declared that he had no private interest in the matter. Mr. COLLETT said the Bill was also to empower the Com missioners to let tkeir mines fer a terni of forty-two years. Nor was it meant that the Bill was to Five the lessees of the Hospital the power of making the railway, or to the Com. missioners. . _ Mr. C. HOPE was understood to say, to the Commis sioners, undoubtedly. Mr. COLLETT said, from the wording of the motion, it appeared to be the lessees. Mr. C. HOPE explained, that the opposition of the Corpo ration of Berwick only extended to carrying the railway be yond a certain point ; they did not oppose it to a certain extent. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. 1117 Ga A T lON TO TRINIDAD. Mr. THORNELY moved for a copy of the correspondence between Dr. Rolph and the Colonial Secretary, and hetweett the Colonial Secretary and the Governor of Trinidad, relative to the appointment and remuneration of Dr. Rolpb, in 184.1, as the agent of the Government of Trinidad, for the removal of the coloured population of Canada to that colony. Mr. G. W. HOPE said that Dr. Rolph was engaged by the Governor of Trinidad to conduct the emigration, but no benefit was derived from his undertaking; and no emigrants were bound by it. The salary he was to receive was 2004 a year, and the only question was, whether, as Dr. Rolph had returned from Canada earlier than was anticipated, he was; entitled to 100/. or 2001. ? Mr. HUME asked what was the date of Dr. Rolph's appoint ment? Mr. G. W. HOPE said it was from the beginning of 1843, but Dr. Rolph, subsequent to that time, became connected with the North American Land Association, which became bankrupt, and Dr. Rolph did net return to Canada till his time had expired. The whole question was, whether he was to get 100/. to which he was not entitled. Mr. HUME—He has got too much.—(Laughter.) The return was then agreed to. The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave to bring in a Bill for the appointment and payment of constables and °Seers for keeping the peace near public works in Scotland. On the motion of Mr. CARDWELL, the following Mem.. bers were appointed a Select Committee, to assist the Speaker in all matters which relate to the printing executed by order of this House, and for the purpose of selecting and arranging for printing returns and papers presented in pursuance of motions made by Members of this House, which may be referred to the said Committee :—Sir George Clerk, Sir Robert Harry Inglis, Mr. Pusey, Mr. Vernon Smith, Mr. Strutt, Viscount Mahon, Mr. Tufnell, Mr. Patrick Stewart, and Mr. Hume. Three to be the quorum. Mr. GREENE brought up the report from the Committee of Supply, which was ordered to lie upon the table. FINANCIAL STATEMENT. Mr. HUME wished to put a question to the Right Hon. Baronet. He wished to know at what hour on tomorrow the financial statement would be made? Sir J. GRAHAM said the public business would commence at half-past four, at which hour the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government maid lay his statement before the House. RAILWAY CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION BILL.' Mr. AGLIONBY hoped that the Railway Clauses Conso lidation Bill would not be brought before the House that night. There were several clauses in the Bill to which he intended to object, and he believed that many of his Hon. Friends on that (the Opposition) aide of the House entertained a similar opi nion of its merits. He thought that a Bill of this importance ought to be referred to a Select Committee up stairs. Lord G. SOMERSET was most anxious that the business of the House should be proceeded with as quickly as possible ; but, on the other hand, he did not wish to take any Hon. Member by surprise. The clauses in the Bill, he begged to state, were not new clauses, for they had all been taken from existing Acts, although modified in a very considerable degree ; and he thought, therefore, that but little opposition would be given to the measure. Under, these circumstance, he could not think of postponing the consideration of the subject. After some further remarks from Mr. AGLIONRY, as to the propriety of delaying its consideration, The House then resolved itself into Committee. On clause 1 being put, Mr. HAWES inquired if these clauses were to be coin pulsory on all companies, and whether they would apply neces sarily to all future railways? Lord G. SOMERSET said they were not to be compul sory on all companies. They would not necessarily apply to all future railway companies applying for Bills. Mr. HAWES thought the Bill would be useles's unless it could be made compulsory. Mr. WAKLEY was of the same opinion as the Hon. Mem ber for Cockermouth (Mr. Aglionby), that this Bill ought to be referred to a Select Committee up stairs. This Bill was intended to be a model Bill, and it ought to be made perfect, and then compulsory on all companies. Mr. HAWES did not think they could proceed satisfactorily upon this Bill now. Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET said that to refer the Bill to a Committee would be to defeat it. It would have to be given up for the present session, and it was very desirable seeing that there were so many schemes on foot, that some general principle should be adopted with respect to them. He doubted whether these Committees would be attended by legal gentlemen. Mr. JARVIS thought a Select Committee would be . a most unfit tribunal. He thought some clauses might be devised ap plicable to the state of things, and to the pr otection of the pub tic. He would wish to see the responsibility of preparing these clauses thrown upon the law officers of the Crown. Mr. WAKLEY said the clause which had occupied their attention was very loosely and very clumsily drawn op, and be entirely agreed in the observations of the Hon, and Learned Member for Chester. Lord G. SOMERSET said that after the opposition which had been exhibited by Hon. Members opposite, he despaired of pushing on this Bill with any degree of success. He would now move tkat the Chairman report progress, and on Monday next he would declare the course he intended to pursue re garding the measure. After a few words from Mr. HAWES and Mr. AGLIONBY the House resumed. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and th House adjourned at Half-past Eleven o'Clock. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. TATTERSALL'S.—YESTERDAY. CHESTER CUP. 9to 1 agst Mr. Jaques's emiseria—taken and a fterwards offered 16 to 1 ii gE . • yr. A. Johnstone's The Era—taken 25 to 1 agst Mr. Qully's St. Lawrence 27 to 1 agst Mr. H. fitebbing's Celeste 30 to 1 agst Mr. Irwin's Pride of Kildare 30 to 1 agst Mr. Parry's Zanoni 33 to 1 agst Duke of Richmond's Strathspey 33 to 1 agst Mr. Williamson's Extempore 3.3 to 1 agst Mr. Bell's Winesour—taken 40 to 1 agst Mr. Meiklam's Trueboy—taken 50 to 1 agst Mr. Irwin's Foiglr-a-ballagh Of the very select lot enumerated above only Semi seria, The Era and St. Lawrence were backed for.any money. No mention was made of Obscurity, Cataract or Pug, and various attempts to back Zanoni and Extem pore failed for want •f a slight advance on the quoted prices. 1,000 to 20 was laid two or three times , and in one instance 1,000 to 15 against Foigh-a-ballagli• DERBY. 10 to 1 agst Mr. Greville's Alarm--1.. and aft. off. 13 to 1 agst Col. Peel's Cobweb colt 14 to 1 agst Colonel Anson's Kedger 16 to I agst Lord Stradbroke's Idas 18 to 1 agat Lord Chesterfield's Pam 25 to 1 agst Lord Chesterfield's Newsmonger—taken 33 to 1 agst Lord Glasgow's Miss Whip cult—taken 35 to 1 agst Mr. Gully's Old Engand—taken 40 to 1 agst Mr. A. W. Hill's Ironmaster—t. all in 40 to 1 agst Mr. Gratwicke's Doleful (the Frede rica colt) 40 to 1 agst Duke of Richmond's Laird o' Cockpen. 50 to 1 agst Mr. Jaques's Anti-Repealer—taken 66 to 1 agst Mr. Ford's Fuzbos--taken 66 to 1 agst Mr. Waller's Columbus. The little business transacted on the above event had no other result than to give Alarm and Newsmonger a lift on Monday's betting; both were in great favour. 16 to 1 agst Idas, and 20 to 1 agst Pam, was laid in one bet; and the same, with the addition of ledger, i n another; 1,000 to 30 twice agst the Miss Wh p i e p ai c e o r l ; t; an 3 d i t 035 to 1 in ponie s En in); agst Old gland; 1,000 to 25 vat Iron masterl,ooo to 20 agat Anti- Re each agst Columbus and Fuzbos. ( l a s ll 0/103. 1,000 to 10 was betted agst Mr. Gully's Maid of Orleans, and 300 to 10 agst Lord Chesterfield's Lady Wilduir. • COURT CIRCULAR. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge, attended by Captain St. Edmund Atildmay, honoured the performances of Madame Dulcken's concert in Harley-street, on Wednes day evening, with his presence. A Cabinet Council was held at two o'clock yesterday after noon at the Foreign -office. The Ministers present were Sir Robert Peel; the Duke of Wellington. the Lord Chancellor. Lord Wharncliffe,.the Duke of Buccleuch, Earl of Aberdeen, Lord Stanley, Sir James Graham, the Chancellor of the Ex chequer, Earl of Haddington, Lord Granville Somerset, the Earl of Lincoln, and the Right Hon. Sydney Herbert. The Earl of Ripen was prevented by indisposition from attending the Council. 1 The Council sat two hours and a half. _ Afr. Dean, Chairman of the Customs, transacted business yesterday, at the office of the Board of Trade. Mr. John Wood, Chairman of the Excise, had an inter view with Sir Robert Peel on Wednesday. Dispatches were sent oft; yesterday evening, from the Colonial office, for the Governor of Van Dieman's Laud. Dispatches from the Governor of the Mauritius were received yesterday, at the Colonial-office. DIES AND YARD1011111:1 RAILWAY.—A special gene ral meeting of the above Company was held in the .Lon don Tavern, for the purpose of authorising the Directors to proceed to Parliament with their plans, although re ported against by the Board of Trade. Mr. Springfield, Chairman of the Board of Directors, presided. A report was read, giving a very satisfactory account of the pre greas of the works, and concluded by recommending that the Directors should bo empowered _tp take from the funds of the Company a sufficient sum to go through Parliament. Rewlutions in accordance with the reprt were then carried, and the meeting then separated. M