The Sun. — London, England, 1821-06-28 00:00:00

ruigbt 1.46 a criminal prosecution, it was obviously imprcpet to lay the dispatch in question before the House.—(Hear!)—lf the proceedings took ditTerent turn, he should readily consent to its eduction. lie should mention that every thing in the island belonging to Mr. Hook had been seized. Mr. BENNET acquiesced in the propriety of not producing the Papers at present. He only wished to repeat his question as to the securities. Mr. GOULBURN' s:iid that — Mr. T. Hook had given none, as none had been, required from his predecessor. Care would be taken in future to prevent this irregularity.—The motion was with drawn.' EXPENDITURE OF THE COUNTRY. Mr. !Nam prefaced the motion, relative to the Expenditure of the Nation, of which he had given notice, by adverting to the distress which prevailed amongst the agricultural, manufactur ing, and commercial classes of the Country. Re lief was demanded from all quarters, and none, be was confident, could be given but by reducing the expenditure of the country. The calls of the country had not been listened to by that Jlouse, or it would not have been his task to come forward with that motion at this period of the Session. .Such was the state of the public ac counts that two individuals making a statement on the same subject could not arrive at the same conclusion. In this manner of conducting public business, he begged of the House to look at the state the country was in in the sixth year of j'eace. The charge of the public debt had not been reduced one farthing, but had actually been increased 130,0001. He therefore thought a re duction ought to be made, and might be made, of four millions annually, without touching any resources which ought to be considered as sacred. He was in a condition to show the error of the statement made by the Chancellor of the Ex chequer, that a- million had been saved. The supposed reduction took , place in the Miscella neous Estimates, and the reduction was merely nominal. In 1817, thirteen millions were voted ; in 1818, 1819, and 1820, upwards of 14 millions ; and this year, 14,353,0001. The increase had been progressive ; and the votes of the present year were therefore considerably worse than those of 1817. The Army Extraordinaries could not be calculated exactly ; but calculating from the votes, they were more than those of any of the last four years. The public had a right to look for a considerable reduction in these de partments. In 1792 the expence was two mil lions ; in this year, 8,900,000/. An increase, nearly in the same proportion, had taken place in the Navy. The whole charge in 1792 for Army, Navy, and Ordnance together, was four millions ; and this year it was 14 millions. The debt had increased so much, as to require an an nual payment of 32 millions instead of 12 millions, which was the interest in 1792. Hon. Members had declined voting with him, one, because he said the statements were matter of opinion ; another, because he said they were matter of fact. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, however, could not get over figures ; and upon them he (Mr. Hume) would rely. The Noble Marquess had, how ever, invariably promised that if a reasonable re duction were proposed, it should be adopted. Now it appeared that in 1817, the total expen diture was 67 millions ; 1818, 68 ; in 1819, 68 ; in 1820, 69; and this year, 70 had this year occupied a considerable portion of the time of the House. He was not ashamed to confess it ; but he , had done so to accommodate the Noble Marquess—(A. laugh)—who in a former Session had called for specific statements. in talking of reduction, the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite had taken credit for sums which never had been considered permanent. It was eau to shew a nominal saving, by leav ing out sums which could be postponed another year. lie (Mr. Hume) had therefore taken the expence at an average of four years, which he conceived to be the fair way of taking if. When the Right lion. Gentleman did not call for ex traordinary votes, he called it a saving. This was not the kind of saving he (Mr. Hume) want ed. He wanted a saving in the expence of ge neral Establishments. They were masked, and he was determined to unmask them. Large sums had been paid to the Commissioners of Woods and Forests to pay for improvements, and of these sums no account had been rendered. Si milar payments had been made to the Bank of England, the Commissioners of Queen Anne's Bounty, and other public bodies. The accounts of these papers were huddled up together so that i no idea could be formed of their propriety. He thought, however, that the whole of them might be saved without any detriment to public inte rest. The Hon. Member then enumerated the various branches of the Army, regular and irre gular, which, in the aggregate, he contended had increased. Those for parade and home pur poses might, he thought, be reduced ; and this argument would apply to civil officers who re ceived large salaries for trifling public services. Thus far as to numbers. The expence had in creased even with reference to an equal number kept up in former years. The mode in which com missions were given away was highly to be repro bated. He could shew upwards of 300 instances in which persons were put on half-pay the day after receiving their commission. Half-pay was intended for past services, and this practice was therefore in direct violation of those principles. He must admit that a different practice was fol lowed in the Navy, and he wished the House to notice the circumstance; as it was improper such military power should be given to any Commander in-Chief. Out of 2500 advancements, only 300 bad taken place out of the half-pay. He thought justice to the officers on half-pay demanded an official return upon the subject. The Govern meet had transferred 247 officers from the line to the veteran battalions, in order that they might enjoy full pay. The Commissariat department scarcely existed in 1792, and it was now perfectly ,enormous. In the course of the Session, he had 'proposed a reduction of 20,000 men. But he had withdrawn it at the suggestion of his friends. This reduction would have saved considerably more than a million. Various reductions had how ever been proposed, amounting in the whole to 1,600,000!.; but not one of them had been adopt ed. The expence of the Navy had increased beyond all measure since the year 179'2. The expence of building for _the last seven years amounted to the enormous sum of 17 millions, and the House had voted in one item 200,000/. for Dock-yard Officers, and 100,0001. for the men, so that the pay of the Superintendants exceeded that of the workmen. In the Dock-yards alone we had expended in . the last seven years more than five millions. Really he thought some de gree of comparison ought to be drawn be tween our expences and our means. Out of the vote for building ships he had proposed a reduction, because he had thought that some attention ought to he paid to the manning as well as to the building. Ile now came to the Ordnance. It appeared that 100,0001. had been paid for gratuities alone. This practice had been stopped by the Government, but it was clear to him that 200,0001. might be saved from this department. The whole course of the proceedings in the House shewed, in his opinion, that the only way to obtain economy was -to compel it, and that the only way to compel it was by withholding the money. Every Depart ment was overcharged, and he would pledge his existence that a saving might be made in each. The Receiver General's Department might he reduced by 75,0001. if Government were really disposed to reduce it. He was sorry to observe that there was little disposition to carry into effect the Report of the Finance Committee. His ob servation in this respect was perfectly warranted by the Bill in progress for the allowance to the Duke of Clarence. With regard to the Report in question, he was happy to except the conduct of the Paymaster-Gene - ral, who had shewn great candour throughout, and who had in general adopted the recommendation of the Committee. He thought the House ought not to separate without passing a Bill for carrying into effect every Resolution of the Committee. He had on a former occasion brought under the notice of the House the mode in which payment was made to the Distributors of Stamps, and he pledged himself to get all the duties performed at a reduction of 50,0001. in the expence, with out incurring the slightest risk. He called upon the Government to adopt this proposal of them selvefi, without an Act of Parliament. He could find persons of substance and respectability to undertake the office at two per cent. instead of six per cent. which was allowed at present in some parts of the country. With respect to the expence of collecting the Assessed Taxes, he had received many letters from Scotland, complaining actually of the laziness of the pub lic officers. The expence of collection was from 3to 8 per cent. on the Pet produce. He would here just refer to an official paper relating to Ire land, shewing an increase of 15,0001. a year in the salaries, and a decrease of 500,000/. in the revenue for the last year. These were instances he referred to for the purpose of shewing the so lidity of his observation, that a million a year might be saved. For this purpose he might sub mit the taking off of the taxes upon candles, soap, leather, and salt. Even now it was not out of the power - of the House to make the reduction. The House had granted an immense Civil List, and a Pension List of 300,0001. out of the Con solidated Fund. If they were disposed to relieve the country, they had now a fair opportunity of doing so. It was for his Majesty's Ministers to make a reduction with a good grace. No mah could deny that the less the taxes the larger would be the National Income. He well knew what he said, and he was convinced of the truth of it, for the money was more profitable to the country in the pockets of the people than in the coffers of the Exchequer. He should there fore conclude by moving a Resolution, which he had drawn up in terms as little objectionable as possible. It was to the following effect : That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, praying, that with a view to relieve the public distress, he would be pleased to order a minute Investigation into the Expence attending the Collection of the public Revenue, and into the practicability of diminishing the National Ex penditure without detriment to the public inte rest, and especially with reference to the reduc tion of the Army. The Marquis of TAVtSTOCK having been ab sent during most of the discussions on the Esti mates, was happy to take the opportunity of seconding this motion, to do the Hon. Gentle man who had just sat down an act of justice, by acknowledging the value and importance of. the services which he had rendered the country by his zealous exertions, which had placed him high id the _estimation and confidence of the people of England.—(Cheers.)--While, however, he did justice to the zeal, activity, and perseverance of the Hon. Member, he must be allowed to say that he could not but lament to see that any ne cessity should have existed for dragging before their view the minute, details of official arrange ments through which ,they had toiled. He was sorry to see the House departing from its ancient and constitutional practice, and taking on itself any part of the. functions of the Executive Go vernment.—(Cries of Hear, hear !)—Under exist ing circumstances, however, with a Ministry ob stinately persevering in ,profligate expenditure and waste of public money, and determinedly opposed to the adoption of any plan of economy, he was ready to admit that perhaps the only way of enforcing retrenchment was by adopting the course which had been taken by the Hon. Mem ber for Aberdeen; and which he had followed with so much ability ; and at least this good effect would be derived from his labours, that they would shew the country how vain was the attempt in that House to refuse any estimates which the Ministers choose to lay before it.-- After the experience which he had had, he hoped the Hon. Gentleman would feel that it was useless and unnecessary to persevere in that course which he had been following. For the immense patron age possessed by Ministers in the enormous stand ing army kept u-p in time of peace, with the avow ed object of keeping the people down, the immense patronage which they also derived from the places, offices, pensions, and honours at their disposal, se cured them such an influence in Parliament that it must appear in vain to expect any thing but a majority in favour of whatever they might pro- pose. The ties of gratitude,, under such circum stances, were alone sufficient to insure it, without the slightest reference to any corrupt nature or interested expectations. The Noble Lord then adverted to the late vote for the repeal of the Husbandry Horse Duties, which, he said, re ' fleeted little credit on those who, having voted for the Estimates, then turned round on the Noble Lord, and cut off the means of paying those esti blishments which they had voted for keeping up. —Before he sat down, there was one subject on which he trusted lie might be allowed to offer a few observations. There was nothing which ap peared to his mind more repugnant to the British character than the arming of one part of the com munity against the other. it was not, without regret, therefore, that he heard of the advice which had been given to his Majesty to assemble a large military force around the metropolis pre vious to the approaching coronation. Was that the way in which the people of England ought to be treated ? Why should they always be treated as foes to the King and his Government ? 'Why were they always treated; on every public occasion, as if it were necessary to keep them down by force ? He objected to seeing the military force employed as a body -of police on all occasions of public ceremony. This was not the way in which Kings of England in for mer" days were accustomed to. he attended— (Cheers),----this was not the way in which Kings of England were accustomed to hold their Coro. nations. Nor could he for a moment assent -to its necessity or expediency in this instance; for notwithstanding the representations of Ministers, and their constant denunciations of discontent • and disaffection—notwithstanding the hostile feelings called up by the late proceedings against the Queen, he was convinced it was only neces sary for the King to shew himself in public, to meet with the good-will and affection of the people. lie thought, therefore, that those who had given such advice to his Majesty were un worthy of his confidence. BANKEs, in reply to the concluding re marks of the Noble Lord who had just sat down, could not refrain from stating that, as far as his memory served, it was usual on all occasions of public ceremony to have a large body of troops in attendance as a matter of parade. He could not help observing also that the Noble Lord had assumed a tone of despondency with regard •to that House, which did not become a young Mem ber almost in the dawn of life. The Hon. Mem ber would allow him to remind him, that as to the amount of the saving which he proposed, the House had already decided against him.—(Hear, hear !)—and of those who sat round about him, and now cheered, not • one in ten had taken the pains to make himself master of the subject— (Hear, hear !)—and of those who had, not one in ten thought his views practicable. fie begged to remind the Honourable. Mem ber that he (Mr. Bankes) had voted for the reduction of the army ; he thought it ought and must be reduced. The Hon. Member pro posed to reduce it 20,000 men ; but in order to get Members..to vote with him, he was obliged to consent to .divide on a small part of that num ber. On the whole, his views and proposals seemed little better than visionary. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to notice the savings which had been effected by Ministers in the course of last year, and their promises of fqture reductions. He could wish their efforts for re duction were more rapid, but they were sufficient to prove that there was no disinclination on the part of Government to accede to such plans .of re duction as might appear practicable. The House, however, ought not to rely Implicitly on the pro mises of any man or set of men, and it .would be very proper to approach his Majesty with an Address on the subject. But in such Address no expression should appear which might imply a doubt of the disposition to meet the wishes of Parliament and the country. The Hon. Gent. concluded by saying, that he thought the motion of the lion. Member for Aberdeen implied a censure upon Ministers, who, in his opinion, had done every thing in their power with a view to economy. He should, therefore, move as an amendment— " That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty;stat ing that the House had viewed with satisfaction the measures carried into effect under his Majesty's directions, for the pur pose of effecting a general reduction in the Customs ;_ that it would be most important that similar inquiries should be in stituted in the other branches of Revenue ; that inquiries should also be made into the Civil Department, with a view to reduce both the 'additional numbers and salaries; and that it would be most desirable the same principle should be applied to the more extended departments, and particularly the Azmy." . Mr. Goocx, as Chairman of the Agricultural Committee, had supported various resolutions for economy, and consequently must be considered an advocate for economy : but when he stated that, he was induced to prefer the address of the Member for Corfe Castle, rather than adopt that of the Member for Aberdeen. In the address of the latter there was a censure on his Majesty's Miniiiers which they'did not deServe. He thought the Hon. Member had began his economy too late—(Hear, hear !)—and the motion was to be considered censure, and nothing but censure. He did not think the country would derive any be nefit, provided the Hon. Member for Aberdeen and his Friends were on the Ministerial Benches. Ile concluded by seconding the motion. The Marquess of LONDONDERRY in rising to submit to the House such observations as appear ed applicable to the motion, and the Amendment of his Hon. Friend, also considered as visionary the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman. The Noble Marquess said, he should be guilty of in congruity if he expected strict justice from the other side of the House, in a decision upon the actions of his Majesty's Government. He did not expect that part of the House to appreciate with candour and sincerity the conduct of Mi nisters. At the same time, he did not mean to impeach the political conduct of Gentlemen, but there was -always something jaundiced, if he might be allowed the expression, in the observa tions against his Majesty's Government, so much so, that Government might wait long for strict justice. A Noble - Lord had spoken of the power that he (Lord Londonderry) possessed ; he as sured him, hog ever, that he was indebted to that Noble Lord and his friends for all that power and patronage which appear ed to excite so much alarm. If they had satisfied the country that the public interest was not safe in other hands, confidence would naturally be placed on' those who had guided the great vessel of State amidst surround ing dangers. If it idd not been for the Noble Lord-and his h riends, power might have left his .Majesty's present ministers. They were in debted to the Opposition for the confidence Of The country, and the confidence of their Sovereign. It unfortunately happened, whenever the propo sitions of the Noble Lord and his friends were rejected by the House, that a cry was raised of the country being ruined. A disposition was then expressed to despair of the House of Com mons. At the same time there was nothing worse than that class of persons who were always determined to take their ground beyond all rea sonable limits. They knew, like an Hon. Mem ber opposite, that their plans could not be adopt ed yet they pertinaciously insisted on their adop tion. The Noble Marquis gave credit to the in dustry of the Hen. Member opposite ; but if he was a Deity, instead df an assiduous, industrious Member of Parliament, it would be impossible to make the House approve what-reason and justice must reject. The Hon. Gentleman was like many persons who thought nothing was so easy as toptilldown a Constitution. It was only necessary to get a number of papers, and a mass of notes which it was impossible for hilman intellect to comprehend,- - and the Hon. Member might at any .time throw the House into confusion. He gave the Hon. Member, however, credit for industry, but could not approve of his bilious hypochon driac statements. The Noble Marquis was well assured the country would think better of Mi nisters for not holding out delusive hopes. Par , liament would tell the truth, and the public mind would not be misled. It was unfair to characterise the military force which a great ceremony always required, as a proof of disaf fection on the part of the people. The manner in which his Majesty had been received by all classes of his subjects was sufficient to in- duce him to trust himself among them.--;- , He then adverted to economy, and stated that retrenchment had been made by his Majesty's Government every year since the peace. The reduction in the estimates this year amounted to 1,018,0001. The lion. Member seemed deter= mined to make a Harlequin leap at the end of the Session, but he (Lord Londonderry) would never be a mountebank, and agree to tell. the country four millions could be saved in the course of the ensuing year, when there was not the slightest ground for such a promise. He should always feel satisfaction to deal fairly by the country, and meet that Parliament which had never held out false hopes, but'had saved the na tion in the time. of difficulty. The Noble Mar quess supported the Address moved by the Hon. Member for Corte Castle. • Lord MILTON did not think the speech of the Noble Lord remarkable for its prudence, seeing that he had so frequently taunted his Noble Friend. With respect to the Agricul tural Report, he had read it with care, and he was convinced that it was drawn up with an intention to divert the attention of the House and the public from the real question.—(Hear, hear.)—As to the Addresses that ,were moved, they seemed to him so much alike, that it was indifferent to him for which of them he voted.—(Hear.) —He hoped that when they met again he should find that something had been done in the way of re trenchment. And looking at the price of corn, arid the general state of the country, he rather suspected that neither the de sire nor the necessity for economy would be less than they now were. The Marquess of TITCHFIELD urged the necessity of re trenchment in the - expenditure of the army. Ile could not un derstand why, when the country was in such distresS, so large a military establishment should be kept up,- unless to surround the Government with pageantry, and with the means of exten sive patronage. • If the necessity of this establishment were urged on the ground of the extension of our colonies, he would say that the first question was the security of our finances, which he contended were in a situation that unfitted-this coun try to sustain a war, if unhappily it should, for a long time to Come - , 'be plunged in one. The Noble Lord went into some observations upon the proceedings against the Queen, and expressed his belief, that after the experience Ministers had, they would not be . se ready again to expose perjury to attc tion in the market of Milan.—(Hear, hear !)--Prom those proceedings Parliament had received an incurable wound, the rankling effects of which would not cease but with the Constitution of this House itself. Under the hope, however, that the success of this motion of his Hon. Friend; the Member for Aberdeen, would, in some measure, repair the character of this House with the country, he would give it his most cordial assent. The Noble Lord, When he sat down, was loudly cheered. Mr. WILMOT wished to recal the attention of the House to the real question before the House ; and he thought if the Noble Lord who had just sat down had abstained from intro ducing irrelevant topics, his opinions would have bad more weight. In every principle of economy he fully concurred, and in common with others he paid his . tribute of thanks to the Hon. A4erriber for .Aberdeen.—(Hear, hear!)—ln the two Addresses before the House, he found this distinct difference, that one implied -a censure Upon Ministers, and he should there fore support the other, Mr. CREEVEY said that the Iron. Member for Corfe Castle was summoned on this occasion, to cover the retreat of the Ministers froni the well-directed attacks of his Hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen. He trusted, however, that such attacks, often repeated, would at length compel the Ministers to relieve the burdens of the country, by lessening its expenditure. Mr. HUSKISSON contended that the view which the Noble Lord who had recently spoken had taken of the re sources of the country, was altogether too gloomy. He hoped that whatever were the opinions of that Noble Lord, the• country was still in a situation to vindicate its rights and to maintain its station in the world.—(Hear, hear!) — He rebutted the assertion of the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, that the Ministers pledged- themselves that the present annual expenditure of the country was the lowest that could under any circumstances be expected to be laid down. In .contradiction to the Hon. Member, he would state, . that the supplies of this year presented a reduction, as compared with laseyear, of a sum of £1,770,000. He contended, that it would be utterly impos sible to bring down the estimates to the amount mentioned by the Hon. Member. On the whole, he declared, during all his Parliamentary experience, he never witnessed a greater misuse of official documents than he saw effected by the Hon. Member that night. Mr. ABERCRO3IBY contended that there was but one slight difference between the two Addresses—namely, that the Address of the- Member for Corfe Castle was prefaced by a statement laudatory of-what had been done by his Majesty's Ministers. He said that it was now evident that Ministers found themselves placed in a new situation, and that they no longer relied on their majorities. He gave his cordial support, to the original motion. To say that he was a friend to economy, would be saying that which he would be ashamed to state, for he considered that the man who was otherwise was an enemy to his country, Sir C. LONG defended the conduct of Ministers, and alleged that they had successfully applied 'thentselveS to the reduction of the expenditure. Mr. MABERLEY rose amidst the loadest cries of " Ques tion, and withdraw !"—He contended that the Ministers had effected nothincrlike economy.- , --(Question, question !) -3" Mr. HUME, in reply, said that not one statement of his had bsen met by argument. Aftera few observations, in which lie endeavoured to show that• no practical economy had taken place, The Gallery was cleared, when a division took place upOn the original motion, The numbers were— For the Motion - - 94 -- Against it - - - - 174 Majority against it - - - ---80 • Upon the re-admission of strangers to the Gallery, a short conversation ensued between Mr. Brougham, Mi.. H. Sumner, Sir C. Long, Mr, Hume,, the Marquess of Londonderry, 'Mr. Scarlett, and Mr. G. Bennett, and the amended Address was agreed to. The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the House adjouynpd at iIAj.F-PAiT THRTIE O'CLOcZ. CONSTITUTIONAL ASSOCIATION. MANSION HOUSE.—The Loan MAYOR having appointed yesterday for the hearing on the in formations exhibited against Mr. Murray and Mr. J. B. Sharp, the Secretaries -to this Associa tion the Justice-rim was crowded at an early hour. His Lordship too •him seat-tat the usual hour, and the parties in the informations not being in attendance, proceeded with the regular business of the office. In about half an hour Mr. Murray and Mr. Sharp, attended by Mr. Adolphus, as their Counsel, and accompanied by several Members of the Association, entered the It was agreed that the information against Mr. Sharp should be first heard, and Tyler, the informant being called, took his place at the desk. room. The LORD MAYOR then said, that, conceiving the.subject to be of a nature in which he might require legal assistance, he had requested the attendance of the Professional Gentleman, then on his left, Mr. Newman, the City Solicitor. The information was then read, and Mr. Sharp, being called upon, pleaded not guilty. Mr. THACKERAY opened the 'case upon the part of the in formant, by observing that he thought little more was ne cessary for him to do under the peculiar circumstances of the case than to call evidence in support of the averments in the information ; the words of the act in his judgment were so clear as not to need a lengthened speech to show their applica tion to the present defendant; but as certain objections might be raised as to the operation of the act, andit might be contended to extend only to societies for a seditious or disloyal pueo pose, it would be prhper he should make a few remarks to • show that this .Association was strictly within the operatiOti of the statute. He disclaimed for himself and his friend,' Mr. Parkins, all personal motives of hostility to the defend :sat, or any of the Members of the Association ; -he- declared himself equally hostile with them to disloyalty and sedition, and considered no evils more destructive to the peace and happiness of the community. - His only object, and that of his friend, was to put a stop to the proceedings of an assoc i a ti on whichthey • ' considered to be contrary to law. It might be argued, that the 'e societies which it was the object of this statute to suppres s w e re ' enumerated in the act, and therefore it would be absurd to 'en: deavour to. include, as under the operation of the act; this As sociation, established for purposes avowedly of a very, different nature and tendency ; but he would contend, that it would have been very unwise in the Legislature not to have foreseen and that they did foresee, that o th er soc i e ti es m i g ht b e established with plausible names, and apparently with praiseworthy views, whose proceedings it might .be necessary to guard against, or control, besides those enumerated in the preamble of the act. , It ought not, therefore, to be inferred this the • whole object of the statute was set ferth in the preamble. That it never was so intended was clear, for in former .times acts were passed without any preamble at all. In his opinion the preamble of this act had reference only to the first section, and. that the enactments were generally affecting all societies within the descriptive words of the Act. The only exception he could discover was in favour y of Freemasons' Lodges ; b u t even i n • their case the lodge must be registered, and would it be said that a society, with the great name of Lord Wellington enrolled among its Members, ought not also to be registered ? Did ft not imply . that there was something suspicious in its nature, - • although it had assumed a plausibl e designation ? By the Act 57th of the late King, religious and charitable societies were ex empted from the operation of the former statute, which proved • that they were before conaidered as clearly liable under it ; he therefore contended, that all societies not coming under those exceptions, whatever might be the views, " be their intents wicked or charitable," were within the mean ing of the statute.. Their objects might be originally good ; but if, like the Recorder, they should deviate into psli tics, they subjected themselves to the due course of law.---i The Learned Gentleman quoted the Address of the As sociation, and contended that it amounted to a declaration with in the meaning of the Act. The Association itself denies that it is established for moral purposes ; societies for those purposes, • they declare, are already established-; and if their object be really to put down libellous and indecent pubhcations, why, he" would ask, have they not prosecuted on both sides ? Why had the . not prosecuted for libels - against the Queen, and why ha ot . such caricatures as- these m e t th e i r v engeance i--- (iV r. Thackeray here produced t w o i n d ecen t pi c t ures .) -1 1 3 do not, said he, exhibit them publicly, for I suppose slan dering is not reckoned among the objects- which the Associas . tion professes to suppress. One libeller of the Queen had - 7 indeed been stroceoded against, the Reverend Mr. Bla e ow, Isla that was not the act of this Association. They sought out the poor starving bookseller, who might be ignorant of what he-sold, and compelled to the sale to peocure an existence, while this libel, which was delivered from the pulpit, they allowed to pasa unnoticed. Mr. Thackeray then remarked on the suggestion to his Lordship to appoint an assessor, which he deemed such an insult as ought to have subjected the person making it to be, committed. He wished only for a decision upon' the l eg ality of the association, and therefore called only-for the mildest penalty , and concluded a speech of about half an hour by abjuring big Lordship, as he valued his public character; and as he would be answerable at a higher tribunal, to give that decision which he believed to be the law of the land. Mr. Parkins was then called and sworn. Previously to his examination, Mr. ADOLPHUS asked Oft if he was to have any share in the penalty, in Cage of conviction , as it was now avowed that a penalty was sought for e Mr. Parkins replied, Certainly not. Mr. Parkins was then examined, ' Knew the Association . They met at No. 6, New Bridge-street ; there was a bras Pate, with the words " Coostitoteonal Association" on the door. Saw a young man, whom he since knows to be Orton, at tim e door, who introduted him up stairs. Saw the defendant, Sharp' there; asked him to give him the latest list of subscrilYos, which he did very politely ; and also a copy of a circular letter, i signed by himself, arid a pamphlet. Beng asked in what ca pacity. he applied to Mr. Sharp, and what induced him to 35 _.',._ for the list, 111 r. Adolphus objected, and some time waseP,T, in argument between the Learned Gentlemen, Mr. Adolph u 3 ' contending that the witness should be confined to give his 0 7 , 1 „ deuce only to whit passed between the'clefendant and himself , and not as to his motives or the character in which he apPl!'e,! to Mr. Sharp, which was so ruled by his Lordship. Under tfil! restriction, the evidence of Mr. Parkins went no farther than?,*. to the receipt of copies of the Address of the Association, wito the list of subscribers annexed. had never attended any meeting of the Association ; did ‘. , On his cross-examination by Mr. ADOLPIIUS, he said, g h e ,. for the purpose . of getting evidence for this Information, hut.n general Information ; did not recollect whether or not he 1 , 3 . : I a thoughtp 1i to th h e at L i . o Lord v .3 e l r ay t o o l r d b e S fo h r a e r p h he 1 sawe thoughthlr . the Sharp, A b ss u o e t r i a a t t l i ; he , a good one. - a li k e: e h h a f d ri ;o ei t f sa k i n d o t w il i a l t b il e l fo r. res T i l l i e a w ck e e n r t a t y o ui rl i 6 a be , i : ~ to ili ° r d . o n l s . ‘loi beingma c e k t e h r a i a n s y l ; e o t ( o l b. i l l ing so said. What lie said was, that he thought as Mr. T 1 , , ,, objected to the question as irrelevant. It was, however, persisted in ; and 111".o.Parkins denied 10 . : keray had found out that the Association was illegal, he col e ,. to have the credit of the . discovery. He never mentioned u , h Thackeray's uncle, nor did he know or believe that Mr. 111; 10 ', , eray was going to India. He thought the credit of the et u might be useful to Air. Thackeray, as a young m a n in his P' ' fession. as The printed Address of the Association was then put in s o t evidence, and certain parts of it read, particularly the n5O e 1 Mr. Sharp, as Honorary Secretary, and again in the list of 5 scribers, and in the declaratory Resolutions. IA Mr. Shelton, the Clerk of the Peace for the City of Lori t a'et proved that the Association was not ressistered at his office: w ith one society, except the Freemasons, had ,been registereo him under the Act in question. . e alie 1 H . Mr. ADOLPUS read from his brief a list of about 20 Eel on societies, of different descriptions, none of which, Mr. So e said, were registered. - This closed the case for the informant. ' for bi° Mr. ADOLPHIrs was glad the time wits at length come ode ' to answer the attacks, which for so long a time had beet A sso against his client, Mr. Sharp, but in reality against time ut eri elation, who were now called upon te answer upon a ° no va° information under a penal statute. The ,Learned Gevaael its proceeded to pass a high eulogiam on the Associaticr i o s, an" proceedings. He then took a view of the history of the o a odes quoted the preamble to show the nature and descriptie_n signa ted, ties intended to be suppressed, which were clearly (. I 'ny OnP° - I X while the objects of the present Association were en. ti u ' could be site. He denied that the Address of the Associa "narked that construed into a declaration under the act, and r e ' , the word ' test' was omitted in the inforingt w sented to. He ( was known that there was no test subscribed or used for the Cris instanced a case of a society which should bc f° embers of which couragement of home manufactures, the °l and to have a ball/ should assent to a declaration to dine tog 5 -call o f aid of the coin' it , where every one must appear in d o e menu try. This would be a declaration not :in ill sal e conibi this was ----. 6 less ' would any one venture to- Say that fleet um er ,_ nation ? ' This construction would equally et i t a re membered that ' valuable Societies and Institutions; and! '" i - el l en e tleman had for this object is now avowed, as the Learned charitable, they weiss tended, that let their intents be wicked t e: Act.h Thus he might 4 / all'equally within the meaning of und of the principles cefeil'A. claim an anquittal on the high gro req 3 , uired by law ; but -04;"