The Sun. — London, England, 1844-02-23 00:00:00

',,'"rw . -. all those hop ~ - es had been d;sappointed; and there was no b lik , e lihoda of !anything better -being xeatised walil6:l7'at ' ighttl onGentlenian was surroundedby the sato.: .:.part,: An 1-1011, Gentleman opposite had said that the people of Irela n d. *re _, glad of, the • presence of the , soldiery, -be eatise*.ll. B°ld ier sPetitss. fir day there—that put: iii mind of an aM Song, the. bUrden of-which was.- , li e e Peilds half-;a- w ero u out o f s b t pence a. d ay : t_( f;a7ghter.) But, alloivieß .the .I.Tou. Gentleman's st.tternent - to . b o o f !rue, d;d:not7that ,money• Which, .from the number tru e ' :- „ „in Ireland, amounted to.upwards of a million and -t-, - 1 aiterime-' , come out of, the pockets of the peOple of .c.eglane t . There had heen no reduction of theinill)taF.Y or naval-6e in Ireland..---(llear, hear,- from Sir R. I ee_ l ) S °, ale saidthis was - only ati. Irish , question,, but that he ~6 ie 'l, for enormous expense was entailed upoh the r°Ple of England -by . the 'systems of raisritle pitrsued , ,T w atds . Ireland. - The Right Hon. Baronet -said he" d i.t hold Ireland - liy military occupation, but by the t a h v e renustre tionottliedi t ivs in the trial. by jury. Was 20,0 00 Pr r e r w ay; to -.support . trial by . jury . , to pour_ It°° P 3 into,. .the country 2 ~ When .Ireland ,was under the Government of LOrd Normanby„altheugh he Rat tit warted in.his good intentions, he did much good, and 84 dear gratefully .appreciated',by. the, Irish P ' e l )l , k e. It - u d- he deplored. the sitiut iti„i°4.,te.fity;ll3rnn7,-itVaegerd°itliselfiri. •-, If:they withdraw ti7,.,4 IN! e bustittitional 'privileges' they Cr troops to-morrow. Ile wished -t-at I , the Noble' might th, r(i G ht. , , d made his motion _a direct vote of censure on lid, .ulerament. At All events lie fooked , otrit in that iiii,na' a 11.dA5i,..1 . -uth he :should vote. ,for it. lle is d a id e . n th o e t•,, rn_etion.to. more an - arnitidinent - that should p .. • , ? ~k, that, respect , - out of-Alf doubt.—(Sir_ , ,I{obei t i 4 : 61--- t t .. It ia not too, )ate.)---(Laughter.) a ls.o s. , lift should - la t , "move - , such:." an - • amendment -;• at., .that . B ut , ,urhe 'ditl not h. to play Nlarplot.-k. i aughter.2. ~ net wished this side - of-ther , lrouse were- InO * re P I .7.' n e ' _. , 10114 • t 4 -7,1,•a-iit,h regard to Irelaud,.—(l!ear, hear.) lie wt. h ot lle, ? ?° 1 q. mover-'of the reiolution haiktOldthewb i a ,f t t he i-441"ellar-eltO.dO. Would be settle the question thi t ' - "qkreh ?..„W o ukt .h e extend the suffrage Bttnt' on on .: the ' l) ,,t!iilti they weranOt to..have " finality, , ' even litt-t,?kuer., side.---(liear, hear.) . ;Would he .e _ . thy r t ' of. i . 1 d .f • eh re : of . ',ey&TY •Cl 4 el l - e- • If :he was,' not preared , to do , all L ,th oe it. or 1 ,, 1 1 1 1 . 4 of Mem wouldhei.f,nty. use. .. Ptitil 1 ' re *4 -.a' air' ' t„ lt: wal i : l c y.a na n i t !,, eli t e • 4; 7 they wanted, not a change of men. moment it hat' ,;1 1e.u nion...retilly, effected, for _till. this . beli4 e u t r heert-c Unice/of-party not of the-p s e e o n tle d . a - ri H ng e th e? the Right I ferii Baronet.was_not pre sell ___her ,-,etatt rks-whielt he made on his Government, Iv o 1 en ' therefore -repeat them. -: Ile had .Said that it W 7 : Ir'ißt-to'ihepeopl - f E gland,.unjust -.to thepeope ; l' e , flita.)-., • - °°- n- - ' th mhole:natton. lie h o , 'AM unwise-with r 14a ,Iled - tire..fli g h t - ti,,kri. Geetleuratt. wix . ild:hea , r: :,,, tlo ,, ,:e' , h e N r t's in r nintli anATrAl v et:. en r thein, e hen he I io iii '4"t4h t lii)W"(r4Agiiit ' ell.).- - thit,ilti:A.:- A.A111.,7.r0:N .said-i!t , -Y l / 4 - T' (. I I - 1 ,,., 1 ,,,„ i ts I le """°i - 4 - 'trid !retie,' f , Conainis,sion shot' i ~i , ~, 1)r i•.1 48.4 °° - lk . As. possibl e , 1,-.1411ie liouxe -lio-,.11: , . ii . e . , : i wheii.o.ll' Vie. great great labour ' attending such ari n tltt e itp .i)(i . *ti e. !ge_ s Y heardoitt One ,litilC;xif, the.farrai. ~.44.:. farremlltuker &v es : .in eatent,,,- _that. tiveiout . .4 l , e , s . keo il ,. * * te 'tinder 15 Uctea;"that :Salt-of the -_famil site s - a:me raiz' population: Jiving in the lowest___ than o' ites.titutitar it . cabins, not .. having: more S roue - - root ; . that.:. Gt i , 1 .,, 0 . _ c ipt. -of • the:_ an ,.. S tlch ,vrere withont Capital, -' .kitt(4 , *ledge, or. land. e b / !:e-ta. the stateMents a thP;43tts of Is4 f • I\l , _ e , . e oth el.lered the great advantage `resulting rent . , n til e . e hit 41154jei14 Th3tid -be the effect3vie-4' Ole:PvlP-t'',.a. en h, . . . . t luali '"re .4. 'would. lave on, public:: opinion.. . he "tY "re that, to have that effect, evidence, in.us -- - t "le ed el*ll; .„..ely . taken, and 'the; Ilefvdrt deliberately con_ l 'oh r ,.: Ile could assure-the House; that the Comnus.. ttid e c were- determined tOprObe.mattera to the. bottom,. il l If e c ii t ni ,„,li. e:known 'to her.. Majesty the state• of things -,. °t ller.t.f,"‘. ...Thellon., Member . for Belfast, and some 'Fts tars" l4 .aaenthe rsr had intimated that the Commission ~s ` t l aar - itch of a landlord. Commission, .but he could. , t 'plit e ' n ti te nettle . that .the commissioners. were t - tei l -l 'ells to receive evidence from the class te ioch t - e -i 'ts ; and - hey---had--also -taken steps O S. 7: A r -heal evidence -taken . 0n,.. the spot. •,.. The cirexe'ekber; for Itoseornmort had saticl.tb4:!'gT° deal' tha t ititeteent had been caused by this . Commission, end e't„,vould,clisappoint - public expeetatioa. But that_ ' 44 FL l tt . did. not -Originate • with , the.Commissieue t t's... pu b,,,ile - -..1 - I,„" L doPted every means of putting before every - P - "slate r - 7 teal chjeeti'ef inquiry, and hadtakenevemy Pelvete, to Prevent the - supposition that they-were __then_ r oeo qto settle disputes between parties. If i'PeCt 4e ,•,. 4 t° notice the - conduct of the Governinen e t, with 4 ty I , su the _repeal - agitation; With regitidlo the de: t 4 e;i_Pottiag ~ down. - the excitement, hp htid heard , „ftetil4natien of the. Governinent with very great satis ttet-I,' The Rightllon. Baronet, the, Secretary of 11'I had given a-conclusive exlanatiOn of that delay,. e3pt:t-golight that the conduct of the Government with. .ee e, _ to that agitation was marked with great forl?ear . thee' all solution, wisdom, and. firmness.. Ile believed,- • Nitesithk Protestants in Ireland, and . those of.the Ito p or t -- D urtli ee most worthy of consideration, . were eeit,rhi-,epealeris, or utterly OPPosed: The to it.- ‘, 1 , 1 1 i l - Tel ,of last year was- a forced excitement,. port of th e -result: of a deep: discontent., . -Even,ie ~h, i 'war, he . should: be under nO . epprehension. ' v le to ( l a ltY. of, his - cOuntrYmen, Who would be still., Il ls tollre'erve .Ireland for the . Queen; arid Would be : ei-i,,i.'esitt all the-efforts of foreign or -domeatic, foe, l -!_ ,`"t'lli‘k,.,"--leed that the Government had- resorted to the -4c otis t l,toWer s of -the .law, and had not asked for any- '''rktitl,"tational wens. He. hoped hey would still s il e ci ne lt,4 l . l '..t l'io li. PT, An . d if they did' so, arid with it field-, kit- -a.inrea of improvement, the agitation, wou . - ski p O- e, and Ireland would cease. to be the. battle- ,-1114.,61 Parties in that IloUse. • With respect .to the I.letzt,,,flreland, the speech of.the Noble Lord . the 5e .1.0t,,-..,' Tor the Colonies would b e highly sati,slactpry t 1..) the 1! e; s r , tal la of Ireland. .1 10. "ti-temted:'"lY?s the duty,.. ',lb il L , Chri st i an s tate to.,maintain a .religious e_s , t t ot e. c rot. -- L t • H h ld os -inquire on what ground f Ilia O t allt rel e ie s iO o rr u had n -been selected -as the ret-ig o inn . an o r‘ it wk,tate. It'WRS sufficient for him,that it was a te , e., '__ pi,t'at's their' duty to bring within oleiveach.'_ef_tt . ... P; Te tli c i . 4gres4 tritilia which that religien cont a i n e d,: ' 1 4 ,, not' -13e1i,-e that - the '.Catliolies of .' I ! .- q 'ul felt any practical griey.anieg, in .. th s at . the religion It .:,he State- was recognised and supported_ as such. iqi aat.principles,was req9g4fg e d i iii p ' ithaii i i4iiigice of !1.., , tgon could not , be. h. on the - pioPortipn of the. , I , lk. r i er! ~13.r°04sitig it; Bitt :thiS priniple ninst be tip:- ill.: within eeesonable ,-limits.., ...Ile, vi c lti, prepared. to 'IIZ that the Church-in Ireland-Nae not : EL T :rich Chttre'h- - was ,6vetage- income, - of the beneficed. clergy insireland. , `"aii-, ( : t , ahel-e 21 . 61. The tunber-of.beneficea in Ireland , ti lri4 4 . 4 0; - , , - Arid if the.' Proteitant :population, was 'letier-`„...''`aulteng them,- it :would -give _ an . average, " 9.. 11,,,.,''"" i 10il 'of 800- each ; and , was the amount_ - - "etiy„-1 'Stated' too.. much for. an -- educated and . ',l',etitere',er, „elate, ?" Regaedieg. England as • ii,, great empire. t' u oligf, t m i tri any that flit across the page of history, be etlio,, she had been raised to power for some higher ti ,,,!iev eti 'TM the been of transient :interest. Be ''',lle, plea ; was the depository .of the: higheit.and best; ' ),,,,,-‘ratin--tishe had- r e in t ' i-• and would- continue to. ~ 1 .uo tl i fel u tra:; if h 11- did a,i n net t;slie ...like other empires„ i,,..411r,-;-", %telt.- tc ,l ;:noriginll insi ' gnificance. - ' • , t ' e t et 4/Ati PONVPLL"c- id with respect . to the con- • li t% I. t he Btree '4 A Prosecutions,' a '4l, • ' ' th e - Reoji t ., .--e u i ey had excited distrust hi,l l :4it e .' s all Ireland. The proceedings. had placed . 1 4 ",:' ,49.1,ts in the .most invidious ,position.. They ta yon. Nth tout the Means of 'cOnvieting the most popt . l7 ththat had ever lived-i in Ireland, 'or, perhaps, in do er ti. !'h th, country. So far from the prosecution putting . itTort theefiitatieny. it would perpetuate' it. -.' He should ), 6 ' 1.11."11 r,* 1)1 0 64 G (41 1 -,* A-Q h 'which - -sa,, i -eve4 ll _ ll ---...-_-, ,after .some. observations . , . n , I s t 4 . te a '") s aid he believed that Ireland . had,l to,i 4 t t roo ; 4 1) 7__ t a a 3 - regarded. trade, -manufactures,,, and t c ,, i ! : - Th.l. treated-. with-grea,t liberality- and:gen s e e.. . ' 1i1.4 1„ 414 - imeorne-tsx affordedltn'instance of this o • 14 1 , solve of inconsistent to ' de!ay sni longer . the .)1 il trcl i . °f of for - the repeal of the union by- h t Np t tahrt nf the law. • He had -before stated that )%.‘,6llat dolorLl'd : loved Ireland; not Withstanding that, ,Itio),:tkititti,e-that the great mastercurse of Ireland 'he ; - .N) , 4 1 . - „ r L - .11e thought. the Government did not the ArNsoilrught- but he gave theta full credit for act "att,,,,r.°P4r-,-,l' au d - effeetually at what they considered 'a to it' b'e•--(1-lear, hear.) He h heard at. t r i7 Ile vvi '"etn. in _that House- fiendish ntentions, lit t , e 4 ' ll hely:Lilt , - their delaying the,: ,prOchimation i . ,est. \ ' e th e i r - that •:, their .. conduct , was mercttu , Jtldg m i - !Thi„,..._r Pre parations Were irresistible.--(Hear,, l 'eliq e llt, pht'' eat. pressing,- evils'of.lreland ere,- in 41 4 Phy li , khlo....Ysical and social ; and impartial inea.snres e•-1,,,,,.'cal 4,4"-theut.---- fen must-be reciaimect4rom that ' f ilt h . ' Ura l , „"eiel condition in which- the Irish were, t ''r 0 - 11,-..6"1.15e capable of exercising 'political pri 'e 4:koh l, ,4,,t7reed with the Noble Lord the • Mernbi-r:-. eo ktli rsi g i n ,tott the.. tb , should Tiii4et : their:chief attention h eti Ne it. --e c ondition of. the Irish. poPulation by tc\ilit°llthwet'alea'e-tl6irt3,.lnee. banjos, the learned rofessioil, 1 k 1.,. `t sang cif. social •advancement., The struggle., ~ r ek - er it ''",Tningt , fi.) . ' 'fwd. - intended to restore `1",11114,11irt...rt,_,Y % who ' had r never w done any good for k 1.,,,, eeept "'") -were. incapable- f - doin t any.. b e 41 t4' 'N I ) ,, i the p t ° the - ii ,,_ - - concede everything ,which cou . 'the 4tabl. C--mtkiiCatholies consistent with safety of v tatatni.- s...ed Church and the Constitution.- * 1.b. _ ;44 r1t 4 2 1 0n, 4 , i t Pt ___he c lamour •that'ivaS raised , for* ,re i te ci a h l . h 1'it,,,./ ni %a -,:wa4 : ne Tertbtles!s certain that the rl--. t k 'i r ei s. ;: 4 , thei r .Inporial Parliament' had mote power t'?_ tidy isst" Irisf:l,7, ll ;han mien of the.same. ,tityup won!d cad tetb 3? ftri. th . 4111 . 4 1ePt... Ile --tepee ~,t , l _ 4 l if„,'t st kY 1 Q , 1 ,!," aguation ;hould-he -put-dowie beoro ted, ni.t,w . what lie. ' - .1 , , ..-oe. ' t - eropo. - : d f ,-- • of Ireland, the Itti,,6_is - tsent ildt. _, , ..e .- or 'the, r ~, ,,n„ t i , ,i stitoevern„„, that -the.• Yeats eiiiir.ife , :tO - a ` ii ` or tr, , 44,/ u=ent,to adopt way-on- the , Cessittio : ihl„ ,i.a .° - t ' ll an aP th Pl o Y s _ i tself affectionately and . in etiraest for,clett tke teal - . s tlh.l6't of "pomplatnt which. ekil% toe, tt h ' gr,leran ce - C;i- jr4avd, i , .. lIe: scouted 44 \Viet P°°l3lre at Itelaiia , ifonld . ever aid a r , ti ll i e ,, e. p h 'it tt . , ho ole, 1177 'the tuffe'epee es - might .be that at t e 4 rertt. mid to ,_ rig. o,f. a foreign tof. would _ , pi.„`"e'P r '",(l the lions tuera ;' . and,'.in proof of_ this, he nee their ; i4 h „ l : il ie e jn Bl7 e h to oe .,.heili e on of the opposition the. Irish offered I etch `0 th e _ attempting to land in-that country, of . 1798 . There was• only Arne \t k , ll4 ''tlik i ," , k as i l w c i i t ' l t e h h he wished:to re . fer -before he sat: tr''' ho; u° 'utr e sPeech of thee - Wale Lord (4 ohn o'4l n.,..Yet the s ji iit lec`d the inotiqp, , injudicious as it ipr ( . 4 - 1 keekh4r I.lmore injudicious One a the Noble, t l 9e' the iii;WStitiderland (Howiek), but that de bt:4)1011"th). `-ito• Member for. Roscommon CAC. i tio i ,`ltte g :,.. tici tos-t e . i 6 Leatied uPan the inhabitants of the !ill,'!'rie e ,.4, Dire_ lo ok 8 0 tapon each other as to•make eh,,1114. being47."-0uid.4k,03- more beautiful, anything thi 5, .‘,4.5t in tni,lnt suggested.; and if that speech 1 1:,,,,ktsg Et i l ell cbn a h t lt , l it . the :peeple. in 'that - brotherly flai' L ohi- t 11 ' ) Dire , t h t ° , he the distinguishing feature of cei.,t olt"ohrtl'SvetotT:'-hladeed, should lie consider that, poor,l-. h%it"erwise h o 4 Pad , done a degree of good. he , t 1 , , i , . it, ttiva.Pe from it. til t 4 ."--Sit.; fold ose, and addressed the House as t t ' 4tt! ' fAi,lh ,i.f_t4 het rise laity night at the conclusion kis th stleY• eti e i. a i'-gbt . . l .lon. and Learned. Gentleman 4 t th„ pe . sand,' . loi two reasons -the h of th Right lion, and Learned r Itgentleznan did not teiminateTill nearly Midnight, and I . _ despaired' o.frivettiug the - attention of the House- -at se ... - . .... .. . . . . !' late. an hour ; Ithe_,'next that I was anxious he should afford' me ..the . opportunity of looking into ...the case he referred 'to; an' in Which "I was engaged- fifteen • years ago, as : the details of that. case Were ebliterated ' from my memory, : and I wished. to. lookinto the report ..... . .. of it, on purple to vindicate ; myself in regard to the serious charge which bas,heen. brought against .me,--7. (Hear, hear.) ,I -applied at the .conclusion of his address to the Right Hon. Gentleman for that book,.and.he,#with great eOurtesy, at - once lent it to toe. - - The House must, last evening; have 'been under the impression, from the expressions of the Right 'Hon. Gentleman,-that the individual referred' - to , laad been .tried• by . 4 packed . jury: —(Hear, hear.)' 'That: word - packed, was used, and as I Was one of the counsel -engaged 'in the prose.; eution that word xini'se have 'been Meant to apply to. me. —(Cheers.) It ..was Said at all events distinctly that I had exercised the prerogative of the Crown entrusted to me on that .occasion:by the•sanction of the, law officers of the Crown; for the purpose of *placing upon the-jury twelve men the Mott opposed in religion. to the person about tobe put upon his trial. . The Right Hon. Gentle man statedthat he . was present on that Occasion. Ile was presenL He was one -of the regular prosecutors in the case, emir think he will do justice to' me when - I say, that my - conduct on that occiusiou Wits not the: subject of censure either ,from the laiv'oflicers..o the,Crown; who superintendedmy conduct, or of the adVisers of the pri., • soner.(Heari) I say that , no cognisance was taken : by the:Crown, and thetas the prisoner ' did.not complain, - nor his 'counsel,. there ..is no ground forreprotif of •-iny conduct.--H(Cheers.) • On ', that'occasion the- :edurie • which '- r teolt, • the '' prisoner ' being charged' with murder, was this, The Crown had • :20 • challenges--actieg for - the - CrOWn, - ,I had the right 7 to. seLasid- twenty persons without assigning any cause, and he (the prisUner) exerciSed his right; his undoubted right of setting aside -aho.— ( ilehr; hear.)_ No,-I:WAS, anx;ous'to hays it. MiX.O. jury:—.(l.O w ud..cheers,-) : .- I:1Vils auxiousto carry into etreet, the - prin&ples , which -have • uniformly guided, me in this House,. in • Courts of: Law; , everywhere, and on everyeecasion, of religions tolerance and-perfett, impartiality. --; (Lend -cheers;) ,. - Findirig that Rotnan Catholics- were challenged - by the..pri +sorter, , in . the pursuance of nrY -- duty I challenged a sufficient number 0 rr,,test6nts, .Tbd result ,m4s, that there Were!. seven Catholics and - fiVo Protestants calbd, a.nd afterwards another was added by eonseat of, i. both parties. 7 --(Cheers.) . The_ trie.) is, there had been an-agreement . -before, between, both parties that the jury - • , should-becoMpeSed of six ,Jr each • religious persuasion In page 690 -of . the Report of thy , Trial, whieli, , :bv the ' Courtesy 'of the Right' lion.' and I.:lirtied.G-entiernae, I hold in inv'fir.nd is the ald-ess : which; on that oc,nsion. • Ulna .4• t- , the inry,:and.l '1.,. titre th e H ouse - w in ex ,., 1 ,-, -Melt', in my desire to I'y this' mater - fairly' before it, I real one 4,i- two ts , .T IT t:O finiin ft:l (1f a. somewhat lengthy • ehara:'tcr, ---‘,i1 . 111.:,. 11t'lit.,) The r.-fe‘rt is, r 4.411,144. 11.10 St sfaithenlli. ii-tuw.ri up,. .:It was iera:: - a up, tf . t . .tile : time. -of , ! , the liy-Ar ; Brewster..of the ; .Leinstei Ciivnit, and whe is -at.presen tf: th e law .adviso ttt - they,c astl(4,--(The. Right Hon.: and Learned. Gentleman here . read' a long . ' -quotatiotifrom the address, which calledstronglyupen the jutry to give the prisoner the benefit of every doubt which - might. :arise in their minds - as to his guilt) -1 now-ask, • when, Isonsented 'to another juror, and when I ad dresSed the fury in such language as this, Whether it is, . not 'enough; o prove that whilst I was _anxious to do My: duty on, the one. hand, I Was anxicaes on the other not to bear unfairly on the - ,prifioner.- butto giVe to him -eve , y• ' chande.-of proving his innocence ?-(Cheers.) But I . trust the House will permit me to read another extract, to satisfy it 'that I am not actuated by any blood hound instinct(-Cheers)---yes, - . bloodlionnd Was the word— against the person then ,lipon his trial. .(Loud_ — cheers.) The Right Hon. and Learned - Gentleman . (Mr. Sitith) used the . words, •in describing My 'conduct 'against a man tried for his life, and he put an emphasis . on the eiprestiOnwhiCh did' not escape the House; and I did think that he wished to convey—r trust it most involuntary but certainly a .very egregious misapprehen sion of the conduct which on that occasion. I adopted: - -1-;(Cheers.). (The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman -read another very Icing passage Ofhit speechon the occasion alluded to; in which he implored' the jury, if ' they be- , , _,. ' lieved there was' any misapprehension dn the prisoner's mind as ito the ' word " Fire," instantly': to acquit him.) Ile proceeded= -I think - I . haVe Satisfied the House, and. even the ' Right HOnoiirable and Learned ,:Gentle: man himself,_ that on the - occasion he has', so triumphantly referred to, I did not avail myself of any prerogative but what my poSitionrecinired me to de, and that. I did not evince 'any' spirit which' deserves cen. Sure frein any man.—(Loud Cheers.) ''r have thut ex .plainedthe reasons for my cOnditet, and the result. If he - (the Irish Attorney-General) - had follewed : the example which on that- occasion I' gave--if he, in the Constitution of the jury in the recent . trials in Dublin,' had allui.vedfive.Rbman Catholics and seven Protestants, .'-(Loud . cheerts)-4ad'l •he ' allowed, - two ' Roman Catholics—nay, ' even 'one to remain, I - think -he would not : only . have 'followed a ' more merci ful, but,' ' I think,' lie ' would :"lutve followed a much snore. judicious courte.-(Great Cheering.) That he might have 'done' so r thilikr shall be able to show in the course of the observations which I feel it my duty.. to make, and that without, violating 'any rule of pro priety,- or exceeding .'the 'bounds 'of fait , dismission. jury (Hear, heir.) , The - that' sat 'in Dublin was com posed of twe;ie Protestants; but the House had not yet' been apprised that eight of that jury bad invariably voted against' Mr. O'Connell 'on the'several elections When he was a candidate for that city.—(Loud cheers.). gooubt they had' a perfect right-tovote against him,. and he blamed them not for it; but when he found' them on the jury he could net help 'stating the fact to' the House. - But, in fact, there is a double charge . ; first, the exclu lion of every Milian Catholic I and next, the introduc tion, of eight persons who, if they; were 'not personal op ponents of, we re politically hostile to,' •Mr. O'Connell. Allusion had been made to Mr. Thompson,'a wine-mer chant, and some doubt had been entertained with regard to the fact of his having seconded' a 46,..t01uti0n in the Corporation on the subjeet-'of repeal. The resolution, after, a certain preamble, was this';-'` We are deter- Mined. to support and Maintain, by,:evefy means in our power the legitlative,union hetween Great Britain and Ireland." There Was another gentlethan; , of still more ' - marked politics than _Mr. Thompson,and 'he seconded the , resolution,. . I find .in Saunders" 1V eves Letter • of the 14th Of February, 1840; that 'a great Meeting of Protestant.i had been : convened ' by . the Lord' Mayor, at which a resolution ,was come to for thec , puP. pose of petitioning the Imperial Parlianient. This ineet ingwas held in the King'i .RcfOrifs.. - Mr. Tonei at that' meeting said, I `.. Whilst the great agitator, the disgrace and saotirge of lieland, is' now endeavouring' to Secure' Papal ascendancy, I Call upon you, .by 'every conSidera _ tion of CharaCter and o:religion, to stand by'our- prin ciples. Let our motto continue to be, as it always , has-f. been, ` Protestant ascendancy in!Church .and_ .: ho surrender ;"'"and then followei ldud and long conti- hued cheering, with shouts of "No surt%tidere"-- , (Cheers.) Then therligh SMriff, - Mr. , Falkrier; who was on the late jury,-proposed the third resol u tion, the effect - of which Was; that t hey, had - heard with : deep alarm that a - Bill had been,lutrOduced'into I'arliament relating to the Municipal Corp Orations 'of. Ireland, 'by Which" it was proposed to transfer the franChiSti to other hands than those to which it justly belonged. That gentleman 'on • another occasion, when he was a candidate for the office' of sheriff, made a Speech, which was reported on. the 13th 'of APril, 1839, in - Saunders' Letter, and in the Evening Mail of- the same-day. In that speech he said, Protestant ascendency. .must be - upheld, and I shall always' Ge ready to give the ekirier toast as cordially, anti as emphatically:at 'it has' ever been ',giV - en." , Mr. Hindesaid, - " What -charter, toastdo You mein ?" luid-, Mr. Falkner said, .".• Need -you" ask--me 2I - mean the glorious slid. it iinortatinemory of William the Third." NowLsay, ought.nOt .that man, to ,have :been atrucle. Off the jury y I: think, _if the: :House will con- Sider all the facts "of ' this' ease :7 when they look "': at, the - Variety of circumstances: which • con. ! cur •in throwing light ;upon ' it=-''they . 'will • Only.' to the conclusion that the ' Wry were not ' qua , . lified -to kiVe 'a verdict in'' the . case. • 'I 'think • that Mr.,O'Connell should' have begun his speech in ad . - dressing the, jury in the words of tine Unfortunate Louis. " Ilook for:judges, but I beholdnone but accusers . here." .--(Cheers.) , My .opinion is,• that if a* verdict: was . legitimately obtained in this' case—if the law of conspiu • racy was not strained—if by fair means and through a. proper jury, you obutined a victory ever the'leader ofn n Catholic .people._ .theit '.yon e•Sthi)' Attorney-General' ffor lreland, thecretiry ofState fdr the . Home Department; and the ,Seeretitry - pi the Colonies may -.legitimately indulge in the exultation . which your . speeches have exhibit;.d. 2 But if, On . the other hand, the victory . . was,not fairly.ebtained,r-if 'you adhered to the forms of. justice,' but in fact'violated it= , -.if Iv' plot—no, -he would • - say,: if a.project had been concocted hi the liome,oilice,, by which an . (*tensible cennivance.was to' be- shown :with respect to monster' ineetings;''teditions - littraugues; said inflammatory newspaper. publications,' for a period of nine Months, all'ied by,a - ,pbTilic4.l antakdnistr=--and, - if foully or fortiiitOnsly-fee - whether *414 :Or - for tuitously the result;mnst be ju - se elle same-a, centider able .portion . , of the - jury list, Was suppressed,. and the defendants were deprived of the' ;benefit of - the Act of Parliament .- which ',was: introduced by the Right Hon.. Gentleman at the' lead . - of her. .Majesty's Liwiertiment id thii eoutitis , , 'tor he ''has' the merit of introducing it into "this eciiiiitty. and upon which :Mr. f ltlitiee Perrin, . one of "the - judges of ' the' ,Cotirt of' Qite4'n's hotel, in the trial' at . hitt, delivered hiS cipinien—if a sectarian jury were eMpanellt d; . forthe purpose of trying a Man who was ace , , - unted as their Jibe rater by the Irish Catholie . peopl e , I sa y that' se far from . its beitignettuse .4 .exultation,.l think the victory -you ' .have obtained will ultimately be' as detrimental - to the' victors as it is now fatal to the vanquished.—(Cheers.) It MAY leave a deep feeling of animosity, and will be' .follovt'ed .by retribution,' slow ' indeed, . but • fearful, ' 1 ! ! shall:new advert to the form of the PrivY CoUncil; be,; ,. I cause the Noble LOrd the Secretary ferlreland 'adverted' iii this Honse, it the ri.anritnencentent of the debate; when I was unable to attend, being confined in Ireland by in dispesition,--the.Noble Lord at4erted to on observation' .niaTle.by me in the.Conrt of Queen's Bench. lie:said-- , but he was mistaken in what he did saj , -,--=ha said that, I",- . represented it as 'an insult to the Catholics of 11 - el:Ludo ' that "Mr. Blake and Chiefßarou Brady Were hot summoned: to the Privy' Council. Whit I said•WaS that the uniform usage in Ireland, until occasion; NV O`io itrininon every Manlier . of the -Privy ouincil - ; - bur:Upon 'fili.4 ioeNtSion • that rule as as for, the first time'departed - froM, and that Mr.- Blake, e, a Roman Catholic,,was excluded . cin that oe- I. cation ' - although he !had been summoned before to the Privy CounciL . Mr. Blake ; wasp appointed.to.thesligni7- fietLoffice of Chief. Remembrancer of Ireland under a Tory Government---4ppointed by,: Lord Wellesley, the' great Conservative statesman—and Mr. Blake- never. took part in the iibletit proceedings by which Ireland was agitated.: ' After -he was .at a meeting 'at Charlempnt-hotisc—aftier' 'Mid ' iibt ' ' brefore, , , , Y6u .ie-X..; , cludeif - liriti - qiorn - -'the ., 0 1-i Not 4 Miiiiti l k-Lfeliereio i ! The fact of his being in the habit of !Mending the -Privy . ; *IT N r 1 47: 1 v:1 'N` ) Council .shows that .be.,w 441 -iot 4,viol9nt. -no man ever attended the Privy CeunciLin Dublin it he was inveterately hostile to the existing 'Government. I stated -that-it-Was-'to -iegretted—l said no more than this, -.4 said that- it was_.to.beregretted that on that ec- - casion youi had departed from-the rule-7which ,y!M have ,admitted you did = and that that occasion you excluded 'Roman Catholics Who were not supposed to be :exceedingly . :hostile-to-You; further added-;-- itn(ll.-- 1 1opelAtade :the observation yri thou t, any personal' liarespect, for I did not-intend ..it,--.that .the. Right Hon.. Gentleman the Recorder for Dublin, by whointhe jUry liSt Was to be revised; and it.was.an uutoward.circumstance, summoned.had been summoned. to the Privy 'Connell, from which Remaii - Catholics were - exclUded.--(Clieers - .) I don't think I.have mierepresented,the statement of - the Noble Lord. I. da not think that -I have mistated. the facts. now., May I venture to say this—l .think that if Mr. ljlake had - been upon the Privy` Council, he would have - sugl gested to pin i on the Friday when you inet, the pro ety ofriminediately (kiwi iigup th e.prochima ti on, an dot posting it.up, at 011 CO, thereby-.avoiding that fearful ha , d' zarwhich, through the instrumentality of 3fr. o"dtia nell, - yOu have' just cause to rejoice` did not result in niisfortune. - - -The observation of.my. Right - Hon. Friend, the Member for,Edinburgb, I think, -is : •entitled to great' weight - The Clontarf meeting was announced, for three, weeks: You waited until the Friday &fore the Suaday upon-which-the meeting would- be held ; and then 'yon summoned the' Pricy You.came to - a decision and you drew a proclamation,which might have contained in tivo lines. I have the ,proetanition hero, andlrtin 'sure that it did not requireany -Peculiar Me ditation,, for uit doesot. exhibit. any great, accuracy:-:-• (Laughter.), • This ! peoclamation •.was. got -up under.tbe 'peculiar care of the Noble Lord., I certainly must say, 'that it is a matter of some surprise;.that you should meet on the Friday=when you determined on -the p_ro clatnation, :and: 'not ,-put - itl, up:. immediately. -Xou. Waited Saturday. - afternoon, when . the no - five 'could • not . have been . conveyed ,to the merons - multitude who were to assemble at Clem tarf multitutles,.'.however, which - - were prevented from corning to scene which .might.-have been 'One Of contest and bloodshed, .but, the, pacific interposition of Mr. O'Connell, Who proved to you On ,that occasion,' • what he had said over and over again, that lie would obey the law, and that- if they sent a Single constable to the -meetings that would indueehim to obey. I can -net -refrain fr. un ,- -4 pressing my. wonder that after- -that - proclathatioo had..beee i , s.ued-r-,that.after, your object -'had been. obtained, that of the pn-vention of-the monster rannot but wonder, that you did - not rest there. do , not. ,see ..what further.. ,purpose. you. bad to attain, for the -meetings . of- the Repeal Asso- . ciation were in comparative • obscurity. - If you sufceeded in.your:ohject, iii suppreiiShik.these.meetings, %di V did.. vou- ins: itute the-e prosecutions?. ::t leer ask :j-ou. -why did -a ou not- •proseeute—trot for •eo: spiracy, but for holding unlawful *a:sseinbiages; and for seditious Itingige—for, , sediiious. publications:for periottiof ninet , anowths- tefore?— (Cheers.) , • -The precis inition stated that - several meetings .language ef end ~inflammatOry. nature' had been ad- - - dressed ft'? ,P.erkbri there iSseniMed;.Caleidated iuta in tended to. excite diseontent.and disaffection-in-the mindh of her Majesty's-subjects, and to bring into :contempt and hatred the • - Gov-grin:tient .and' inStittitions, Of the' country,. &c. : NO.iv, does not the question at: once pre sent itself, that-ifthat .seditious language .was employed for so:long a period as nine menths,- -why did you not stop it before?—(Cheers,) ' Why did yciit'flot proSebute such articles as this ,wbich:T hohl ii .toy, baud, published so far. back as. the..l st. of April, 1&t3?. • You 'might. have proceeded by- criminal information - or by' indictment: . You might have proceeded for the publication of this poem irr the Notion_newspaPer, mbieb her Majesty's torney-General, in addressing the jury, declared to be ,a poem of a. seditious Character, . The poem w as entitled the " Winery Of :the Dead," and the Right Hen. Gen tleman, the Atterney:General, read it to the jury in the most emphatic and solemn 'manner. - . I will read the poem:— :. - Who fears to speak of Ninety-Eight? blushes at the name? - When cowards mock the patriots' fate, Who hangs his head for shame?. He's all a knave, Or half it slave, • Who slights his country thus; But a true Man, like you, man, Will . fill your glass with us. We drink the memory Of the biaVe, .. The faithful and the few— Some lie far off beyond the wave • Some sleep - in Ireland,•too; All-all are gone—but still lives-on • - - The fanie of those who 'died; All true men; like you, men, • - • Remember them with pride:: Some on`the sheres'of distant lands - .. • - •Their weary hearts have laid, • ' And 1)y . the stranger's heedless hands • • . ' Their lonely graves were made ; , But, though - their clay be **way . Beyond the Atlantic foam— In true men, like you, men, • Their spirit's still at.home. The Attorney-General added, this poemWitS i inade in order to excite the minds of the people; and that it was a specimen of an entire volutne of seditious ,matter, which Was calculated to excite discontent and disaffec tion... If this be a true description of the. poom—it, was published- on :the tat ,of .April, and: a „series of com•: positionaof the same claps hadheen published weekly • for : several . months (Hear,_ . hear) —*if this 'Poem had the tendency imputed to it by. the Atiorney 7 Gene; ral, is it not a very natural question to ask, why were, not proceedings taken against . the man Who published that poem and the more especially if it had. the evil influence attributed to it by. the Attorney-General ? hfy answer to it is this--you had predetermined to prosecute, for, a conspiracy,—you had connived at these meetings, and- at- .the publication, 'of poems .of this class, for- ; you suffered these poems to appear :day after. day in the newspapers.. If you suffered - th'ose l Meetings to be heid,,until,,according to your bill of tieulars, ninety-One' of them had taken cries of " Hear, h-ar'')—yon allowedithosenewlapere to proceed- in -their career—to run - a - race among them, elver--.-uutil. the ,editors ..competed: with one another in exciting "the populir passions. And Whit; then, did you do •Yotr ) did n 0 prosecute the author of thoSe,poems —you did nut prosecntethe man whose name was at tached to,some .of those. compositions.. Oh ! no. The article; thei".,Duty of. a Soldier," was published in the Nation newspaper ; the name of the writer was added to it--the' writer -was a priest in. Waterford—the Rev. John Power- 7 -(H ear, hear, from the Ministerial benches) - - --but you never prosecuted him: .To this moment he has escaped "with perfect,.iinpupity,—he .was :present at the trial—he saw the men tried for the. offence which he, himself had,.committed„,and.le returned to - Waterford perfectly safe and uninolested. 77 (Lond cries of "Hear, hear" from the Opposition.).. -But. yougave the adicle in: evidence -against Daniel 'O'Connell, who had . not written - it--{Hear, hear}--who had _no eogßizanee of it, .'and no communication whatever with the -writer: You gave that article in evidence .against him— (Renewed and J lehe ".Hear,, hear," from , the OppoSitioP) - 7 - yOu . joined in - the, offence. ,the ; editors of three newspapers,--you:.geve in evidence against OVortnell every article published in those newspapers in 1843. Was this a legitimate proceeding .? (Loud cries 91 . - " Hear; hear..") Were the observations of the Hon. and . Learned. Member for. Worcester, justifiable in 'that re gard ? Has there been a precedent for such proceedings'? hear.) Has there been an instance of a" man indicted few conspiracy and joined 'with the editbrs of . newspapers,' and every article in.those newspapersgi gi ve n in - evidence agairistlim?,--(Loud cries of ",hear, Bear.") Yon might tell me that -mode of proceeding should be adopted if .there, is no other, way of ,punishing those editors ; but ;could. nett they have been prosecuted. in .the ordinary _manner? !.Could.not. these.puhlicationa :have been stopped ? Could not these channels, through WhichJeclition..wasalisserninaten,:. have:heen.:closiidjup Therefore we chargelou with having-in,ilte _words of the A ttorney.; : %:fArigaith litifr.ing-rst46oy., with hay ing laid in Avait,..to.4Sll4e - tlieso .inen.---(Hear 'hear.) If you did no:t .. e7ournge, :at ,connived very sti.ang%ly atAlikialiiiroCeediup ;,-.antl.thert, I"..hen your purpose. Was---tiectimplithed,. you tell upon the man whorl you. hint'iticloged• within our ti411,0,- 7 (cries of Hear, heag.).:.X.now.4saathollightlion. Gentleman in a solento and-inarkeri , torre•of voice)'cOine to 'a yans actionWhich:the-AttirriieyliGenetal for : lreland:Will per !mit me to say has-team don4.-like.to.use the phrase, " wilful naisrepr4sentation,"•imt•lwisb-tn.convey to this House the kopiriledge.:Ora must be regardettaa a :most,singalar—most remarkableL-- - •most 'conspicuous ornission•-•-by-the -Attorney-General.; The House heard' :that cientlemak last:night, speak of.tho oonductpursued against -Mr. Bond Hughes. He is a reporter- , -' No, - shorthand , writer„attacted to Mr. Gurney'i:otUe;.ititd:llelieve him .to be a gentleman -of undoubted-- -was sent to Ireland for the purpote Alf" reporting ••• the Mull#o.kntii,tiaeeting. The AttornerGeaeral:said:. that_ r i Hughes. was se lected as an object ofperseeution, and that the town was VadaidedWith denundationS'ef this Mr. Bond . Flnghes, so that eren,those4o t inan Qathplics..,w4o,vOted in favour :of the appropriation:clause could not . he. More strongly 'dynamited .than he •wes.,: ' The- A t torneY 7 Q enerat added ithat;:thia Waalk4 conduct &ratted by Mr.S.),;COnnelktind his associates:with. respect. to-Mr-Hughes, and 'that this was One ••• of the.•••ntotives-••••of-- the , ..GoVerpnient for preasiiig.:oVonnell wAtii sc) ''mugli keenness. ;The •-• • Attorney;G•eperar ; further. • said, that he re gulated" proceedings.•*byt . the manner in Which 'Mr. -Hughes persecUL-d.,hy the discredit- ilmnpial•-tettrle pursued-in 'reference to-that irrhe:Aqorney . :7 :Pprieral ~and I am surprised. that -he Mr...fltghes himself 'acknn - wledged that---he. made— two • raistskes in • his • the;; SWorti_:_itiforinStions . ' upon - which la warrant was founded and—issued -against Mr. Barrett, the liii'oPrittor of c i !r l'ilot nowapaper; . Whenyit . was . of the utmost •611W - tuetice .ie. , ftiititx,..and....c.hain: with 'O'Connell.-r4oud-cries of. -Flear c hear:") There was no peroen•but-Barrat'and'theltlthresecutori. In its paper the article entitled I.ln.L.tthuty. of a Soldier," - -vas -published:---Mr...Bond- 'Hughes . swore informations, which he:at:Med:that be saw j4r!tei, • 'twice at themeet ings in Ditbliti. He never did see him at any meeting 'in Dublin.—(Loud cries of " Hee r, hear.") Ile statek 'what.'was untrue ,but , ...which I .believe inters-;I tionAlly false-4 Hear ,, hear)—but -.which, . as we knew]. nothing of hi m , as we ettu ld -not-search -his conseienee,l. as we had heard"-no explanation.froruthe_Crown—as we had no explanation,fro in _himself until ,the 411.-,we knew was, that he had sworn to that ,which.was not the fact.— cti ( tdo li enn e it n et e yo V! o ' G e k d ones of " Hear, hear.") And then an e t h- w h h a iL n . Q s t h b al Q l .eli be m mentioned entoned - in . this House, and which will, I think,. produce upon melt of all parties no ordinary sensation. • If I shall bacon-- tradieted in the statement I am about to make, -1 Have, the documents' here with-which. I can. substantiate (Hear,'hear,. from the' Oppositi on: ) Mr . B o nd H ug h e S;' in his first . examination; stated •Rertaht_things: . tCntreA 4:i the Attorney-Gooeral to' w v single partfciilar . frOnithe - exaClTaa *: s biglit - e&Taie' anticipated the disclosure of to the House,—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Bond Hughes said he went to-the house of Judge Burton, to correct_an Affidavit: tie' lodged' an other,information—mind that- T in .whic,ll,44Xe .x4 .. _s. no' reference. to jiiiiirett. - 11 e _Went tti 'Judge Bin* . ton's :h.:31 . .e . 'for ( the.' r Pufpoise - or to_ ' - an inforrnation - there. -le: quiWr• '1 Barrett:, ...When: hi saw.... hiinil'be/AcialpecliAt4 said,;" I. : lia,not ..see .that. :person. at the,. tueet,ing,?---," I !hate sworn that which was not a ffact."' , He kiiie - „,fti:'Wriiy`ietspiike to hiM- - - Wray' -is the:. clerk. , -to the Crown • eolicit4—told him:. of the mistake- he.• had- made iitt his affidtoit, anti - requested -him 'to correct it. , whak-„ciid,Wrai rs sa i r-,- what did be do-did he get the inforniAion - eorrected'? No. 'There ivaa'n&CorreCtion,- lin& Mr:=llond litigheii,- when asked • upoti tha trial: what. reply: Wray made. to ' his , request, -, said he 441 - not,raeitiber: Iyhat Wry : said.., . Bond fiughe,s saw :Mr. Itemtnis, ead,. said_ " rhave made' 'a: uniStalce:ln' my Inforination—what , shill 1 do? -4 stated "that which- was hot trae.''. 4 , ,What - did .Wenunisiclo-was there a new informationpr4Pare42: —was ..tb..l:lrd statement. amended.? Np, yA vgarran.ti. against Barrettlid been granted, and that . . warrant . was not to fie f recitOd.(Lotid tries . of . :" 'Hear:hear," from the sOppOsitiOn.) , Lest you 'should -think or. iinagine for ,a -, Moment • • that . -I: ~aut, ,wantenly , • impeaching, the _character of this immaculate Crown .Solicitor-:,,, (Laughter) —Who charged 'IS with ' tampering 'with M`Grath.. the flomanCithOliC oificial--(lrear,ltean)- , -- with tampering With a man who is at, this ,moment ,in the employment : of the Poyernment,'----{llear, hear)-1, will read to you the. stateMertf.'ce 11i. Bond Hughes - , which'the Aitorney:Geheral, - I stippOse, thought - AM 'pot bear at all. upon the•Subjeot-L-Iktd: Hughes,- A perjurer t Oh ! monstrous !.. lie deritntncechtheTersocution.of .this • individual,lout Jut did-not think it at all yelextlt,to:com. municitte it to the House.—(Hear, hear.) -It "li•as.on his cross-eiiinitititioirby Mn- M'Donough' that . •the:--fact came out;' it did:riot appear:. in the direot..exaMinatkon., Hughes swore to what Imppened.at the Mullaghniast meeting,, and made out the case against .O'Connell. But ' hot 'a - *Ord - about ' : the - mistake Made by Ilughes rak tb 'Barrett--one, ,of the -men. Wheat.. liberty, WAS ;-at . stake. ";.Tot -a . s syllable, dicl.: . the; At, terney-General ask Hughes about. Barrett. . The Crown had no curiOaity4ozi the' subjeet.- , (Langhter, and•Crieis of "'Heir, 'hear."). = - Itwould have been - enact of supererogatibn. to have touched upon any•unfortunate Misapprehension, of Mr. Hughes; but upon ..hia• cross- - examination by the subtle - Mr. M'Donough the matter Wats elicited. I will read from an indisputable authority an extract from the.::ct•Cisk-exarnination , by Mr. M'Do nough. Thepaperis ,ca11e44 . 0 z ii).ublitt, the Recorder-of Public Opinion:— . .. - , - , ~• . • ' " Mr': ILlYOnough--tYoti haiikialien various ,opportn aides af 'cOrrecting your ''statchients'?• Mr. Hughes—l have taken some. .::. - . ! •,.-. :' -'. - . ~-,-.,!:..- ,: `'° Mr. I,4l!flopough—(Having seen. -the information) You hare not pained Mr. Barrett. Was . he . there?... 'Mr., Ittighes---I Madeamistake abont:hini' ona - fornier - occa , sion ; • he was not !present; --a - took the - earliest Oppor- • tanity of correcting: thAtlnistaite. .. ~. .. _ “.Mr. M`Dohough.:-, Then I presume that he did not siva k there / kr: . Hughes-Ile . did"not: ' : f "'Mr. M'Donough--=When yoti lwere -under exernina tfon by the .T.Solicitor-Goneral,...lO. asked Tau.-nothing about the dinner ,at the.. Rotunda,? , Mr.: lughes-:-He 4ked pad nothing about it. _ . . -"' Mr.' M‘DOnough-Was Barrett there? - Mr. Hughes -L-No; Barrett Wes not there.t '1 n3istoek , somebody else' iarhim. -..: .'. .-...' :- ... . ' ..:. .- .:.. ~ . , -., .. . •,:z., ...: - . " Mr. M'Donough--I think you stated Ton took the ilieSt opportunity of correcting the mistake ? ' Mr. tighes—l'dlit'so when I . Was -- itt - the house - of - Judge urton. ...'••:.: -'' • ' :: ,- '''' f , -!• - - . 1 • ' - s . ; had a painful taskto da,:but I have,.atthe same time, to/ make some allowance for the acts of the Right Honour,' able Gentlemen, The ..Dublin Evening .Malt by the byt a high.authority en these matters-,-had ,stated that the , Right Hon. Gentleman hadbeen compelled to be in. at* . tend ane.,.e.. upon an. . eminent ._ , statesman : for - the .purpoie! of .. , a.• cOnSultation, preparatory to making an,' 4ncietise.lh the grant devoted - to the _purpose of national.: education, in . Ireland.- , -(Loudlaughter.) • .But having acquittatthe,l3ecorder of every sort of Moral imputa tion, still there are som e circumstances which do appeail•• to me, with reTrsker-te the;revisibn listnWhich - were quite . inexplicable,,:and'ildiich .appear to, nie•erninentlyto call. for.. the „remarks: .• used , ,by _ .Mr.:-. 'Justice. Pet* when ht . said that , he thought with . respect •• to.: those - ligia' 'there - 'w ere'` to. - coneludel tliere.,-,was - Apin,ething worse f ,,,than accident. Now , what is - the ...e.g.sQ hero? Is - it - .l7ecttive- Mr. --M'Grath isa.R.eman'Cathalic—is it theYefore that' it iiiiPeicte that the defendants some of ,ti horn are R6man:eath t 1 lies) have empl o y e d i - t heir. inflUence for ; the purpose. New see what ft ,, monstrous charge you prefer against Mr. AP ppath„, riiiia g t the possibility of 'sustaining, it, i For Ayh,t4. 21 ihilehitt §. ? Thai the defend aii ts aCtuaili purloined or Post 15 names of Doman Catholics in - ono parish;...the...ptieish of St. Audeon!S, as;,if •_ they were anxious to exclude . the Roman. Catholics from dip jury ;—(C.liceis.) ' 2i... ilk containing .15 limes 'is .16 4, and it is alleged ,that Air.'itpGrath,.' a ;Rennin Cathalic • gentleman at present in the emPloyment of theßecorder - of Dublin, Who has not aismissed hiinoolio-vron't dis miss... . • . , • him—(Cheer'; - guilty of ,a . - - ;:inost nefarions . practice, - and that insinuation is naade : b3=. her Majesti's . .Attorney-General !—(Loud cheers.) , Now,.. is . this .a fairmode of proceedingcheers.) When they found, a mistake—l will - call it a mistake tor' the present—hnt a mistake most iernicious to the defendant, depriving hire of the benefit- of the Act of Parliament introduced . by iliThglit Icon, 'G, at.the head of 'her .Ma jesty's .Government—when %Y found that mis take , operating.against the defendant--you.say lie did it him aelf-7why„ da you.think that he committed suicide ?•1 - There stands the statenient.—(Lord. Stanley here made some observation across the table which we did not catch.) Let US have no mistake on this point —(Hear, bean)' Whatlsaid.was this, that last night, the, At torney-generalcharged corruption upon its. He charged ' Mt with corrupting a publicoflicer, a man' Whose liveli- , hood . depended on his office—a man fram.w.hont we should "t* - • - _,,,.,4,, , , -.: , . ~ • = ; . ' "tali 'the " When we do_ take the means whereby he lives." The charge waa corrupting ti.public!afficer, and for what purpose ,Ifoxitbse.plin4Ose ,orreMOVing R6man Catho lics from the jury. Now, is that. lausible ?—(Chors.) ..Would such Ai-apcus4tiop. ,be,reeehied With acclamation by any gentlemen except those who had ikon' previously heated by the singularly operative elcitiueUee of thle, Right Hon. and Learned Geirt/eniart,;—:(l7:6lid cheering.) When Hound a British House _Of Common s' chee'ring' - on an Hon. Gentlemari , While-he was blasting_ the character .of a; private individual, I was astonished' at the want of just feeling on the part of tie AttornelrGcneral 7 -71, was: 44- tanisked. that such an accusation, so destitute of truth, or It should say Aadpyy, of, probability, sliould lio received- with accianiation by a British House of c6eri.) - When the facts are .so Much disptited,, when such. contradictory assertions are • 'Made, when .I say sixty names were lost,.when you say. tiventy-fieveii,,when the,.lVce,oidet says 'tw'enty-four alto gether, -of. w.hotai sixteen were Catholics; ought we not to have a Committpe . to..ingnire into, and to search 'the- Matter to ;the bottom?, If . ther:e is corrUption connected r , - r ‘,.., , 1, .0 .. '•fr' •,7T r !' 7 - ` r i t ., r ! . T . tr i l i' l 'C 11 :1_ 1t• 4 : .; r- 1 ) . ) )7 i•-• r.),. :, ..... ... • II iltH D - A- - V - V -E ATL -rIN - ---'I 4I M-U-A---R Y---'-2a__ 844- leen'ta49n.nbout gr, Hendrick. The Noble Lord the Secretary for 'the,COlinis, who 'appears, to tenon a'great deal - More' about this part of the case th'a'n the - driSh AtterneY-Gener.il; told us that Mr.- Hendrick was- , considered , -. e..:. be t Protestant and Con - servative„.. .told him Did' Mr.. liernmis ? Xo• Mr v lietrtfnia.helieved him to be,a Roman,Catholi c . --ellear, hear.) , Well; new, `arewe tO try "a Matter Of'ttiis signal . imp& -- tancenatiiely, the exclusion of Roman Cathotidi upon the •specific ground's of Mr. Remmisis afficlavit.or t hy looking': at.thel -letters Which passediUDnu tbe-s_ubjeqt? Is that the way to satisfy the upon a mestion of such deettapfl i vital interest ? Xou ate .tbe secret of this caseina Memerit:Zah - make an ItTfidafitt---Wi . are generally - bolihtl brat affidavit` —aMr)..tyti say-thai the whole ten are 'either tifetiibers of the - Repeal Assoehttion-'or have stibscrilacif faits funds. gr. Hendriek_is not. tomembor of the .4ssnei,ation,- - gr.: , ,Hendriek AK!!cr, subscribed to the . rei.)eal i .rent-f,-gr„ is a 11e&rin Catholic: It is stated 'that he Was a Roman atholic. - I requested inV Hon; Friend . the - Member 'fel- the county-of' Weiford',-when thisiitatter was in agitation,. toga to the house of .Mr; Hendrick, With, WWII, he -was aeplainted, and inquire -wliether4tir...Mendriolcwas &Boman c;lttholic,, or had subscribed to the , Ilepeal,.4sssielation? The -answer was, that Mr. :Hendrick "wit's 'Roman" ratliofic,: but that he had never subseribed' to the gdpeal - AsSeeiatien -never subscribed to its funds. :You: prove to be mis taken, and-y_eur Mistake is of a very important kind..- --(Hear, : betty.) Let me now come, to the case of • Mr. Dunn, - Now, Mr ,Dunn is not - a member cf . the Association, and never s'ubscrilk4l - to the fun& of the - AggoCiaoeti:' It is S aid that he is a . Repe a l er , a nd t h e Noble Loi-ddb-sife'crthat I Was a quibbler when I drew distincti;ui.) illessaid,_ " There are quibbles which may sometinles - be employed in ,a, court of justice, but they .ought not to be resorted to in Parliament." But is there no distinction, I ask, between being tt . nieMber of the Repeal Association ,anda subscriber to its funds, and being an - adidCate of the repeal of the union ?--4 Hear, hear from the -Opposition.) Suppose that . gr. Cobden, ;tint Mr. Bright-and my , Hon Friend behind me;were in dicted, tegother of course,, with the - Oar, the .Chroiiicic, The siin,.aild all the newspapers favourable" to the're= peal - 131 . the corn-hilvs, suppose that all these were indicted- for a conspiracy. Why, it would be very easy 'to say we will set aside all Who are subscribers to the Anti-Corn-law League, a4.:who :are sub scribers to .77ic...5'un and, the other, papers ; hut would you set .aside a-matt becauielbe was an Ovocate - arfree trade, or because he had aubscribed his . fittme to a rdpti sition calling a meeting in faVour of a repeal of the corn laws ?-;;-(Hear; hear, and cheerS' from the • Opposition.) Or let me put.anothei .case. guppose _the -Tories' had come:in in..theyear.lB3l, and suppose thateertain con- % •spirators, or certain persons alleged to have conspired, - had been indietecl i for endeavouringito subvert the Con 'stittitiori by means of intimidation.—(Great laughter.) `Suppose my Noble Friend on my right, and my Hon. Friend* the-Secretary of State for the Home Department - -(Laughter)—and the ,Noble Lord opposite, had been indicted forA conspiracy, we will say to swamp the -House of Lords, would there not, in that case, have been a distinction drawri between a juror who was personally an advocate of Parliamentary Reforia and the members of Brookes's Club, where might be heard, perhaps, in cendiary and 'seditious .speeches, delivered at a table 'amidst rapturous applause ?—(Laughter.) The Noble. .Lord said I was a quibbler because I ventured to Say there was agreat difference - between a Repealer and - a Member of Repeal Association, the one being charge-' able :with conspiracy,. 'and the other not Quibbles are • _ . . . ~ - with •a erreat. State prosecution,ea , matter of such s bad things, but :Ministerial ' sophistications are. much k".Mr._WDenou,glt-Yeml 'saw Barrett at the house a , :Magnitude e•- e if corruption had been charged 'in • 'at' worse. -(Cheers and - laughter from the Opposition.) I ip Burton, „spy' .percOTO, your mistake ? Mr. case where.-.a , verdict tin s. .. b e en. - obtained, 'which think the Noble Lord must now see that I. was' not ughee---I did; '-' e - l e , - - ,"' .-- - Verdict has been made a , matter of triumph- quibbling when I drew: the distinction in question.. 'At 1 `eMr.M4Donbtigh---Did yolk- amend the mistake then if with-respect AL it we are contradicting each other, and all events he must see that there_ is a most marked differ- With regard to Barrett?: .. Mr.:Hughes-e-I did; notihut i . meeting eash other at every ateti-if you any, yes, when ' - ence between the affidavit - of Mr. Kemmls and the did With reference . .ta . the RM. Mr. Tierney.. I.,disev I sa•no-ie,not just you- should grant ns a committee P statement- made by the • Noble Lord, who tells us 4overed*iiv:Mistakewith - reference to Barr e tt, an d me n- • " -- (aile.erai). -..Tha(will',not - ,be e'vote of censure on the that. there _: *eke . .fent.. Minns, but_ that it is net tioned it to kfreWrity, the' clerkteetCeniaii.- - • • Government. A . cornmitteetf inquiry into the-state'. of- Pretended that Michael Duna was a meniber 'Mr.' M‘Donough-W . hat 'Alicts ,, Kettimia say? ~Mr. Ireland.won/Tbe le vote Of :Ctitinitre, but - this. committee of the Repeal Association.-(Hear.) I think 'Nee have Hufi ghes-I . ea,Wt recelleet What - Kenimie 094: •• . • . .. • - *ill not be aeibte of sensors.. } Then give .us' the coin '•-•alearly made out that tneo - of - these - Men - A ere tniOjec• "Mr. MeDoeough-When did you mention this to mitten. Let is k now _how all thi s , has happened.. • - 1 -tionable, and that you were not justified, therefore,. in Itir r . eeeeiemiee Mr. Hughes-rhave already 'said that I p resumeea ft erea sug g est i on, w hi c h seems to be approved , seriking off their names....e.(Cheers.) Now, what ought mentioned it at Jedgeßertou'e house," ,-- -.. ' - by all sides, that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir Robert to have beetedone uriderthe circumstances ? "The panel `And iu.e,nswerto,further.qUestions,Mr.Hughes againsaid Peel) whaintrOduced• the Act into Ireland, and it ,is, to Was : bad ; the panel was .; it was s 9 represented that Mr. Kemmis m ade •no Oservation when he told. him his merit, - for he is a, great, legal reformer-I presume- by a judge ; you yourselves admit that a number of efthe Mistake: Mi. Kemmts made no observation-that ' o le fi n a i n di ca tio no fhi s own aaL an d t o rescue i t from the names have .been struck off. - Every Roman Catholic, man Seind 'Hughei," *hobo' character was- so impeached; ie npn t a te eno e un e a ir working, hewilltiol deny us the tneans'i you say, was to be struck off. Would it not have been innd whose conscience' was so - edisturbed; )yet Kerrnnia. of investigating 'those transactions Which (ha clearly re- a wieecourse to oonsentthat a new panelshould be ap ade no observation about ,ite-e(Loud:eries.cse "Hear, quire , in ves tigation, -Let us 'see what took place when pointed.? If the parties had consented to a 'new panel ear," from Opposition.) Bond Hughes, one of the. the discoverywas made, neinattet Whether the - names, that panel would have - been . binding. - I believe no the rincipal - evitnikOS for . the ' Crown,, had made two were 24, or ,60, or 27-tt certain number were left: wet, lawyer in this House will deny that if the parties had tatementa enhia oath,- which ttirned - out to be-untrue, e wrong was done.. Th e N o bl e L or d' opp o Sit e - (Lord afterwards Made an - objeCtion they would have . been nd yet Ketumis To be sure ,theye may. Attorney-General, but the opinion of eminent lawyers 'made rte observation, =and made 1,10 Stanley) - says, and most justly ; . that o n th e ballot the. stopped, : Ido not know what May be the Opinion of the t He rr,tc m pt 1; to w ,:,Lemffeedely the' o mi ppe st s a i k ti e e .- n.) (Re N n e e , w t ed he c mr ii e st s ak o e f. be, but A t T h e e Ae c i an ted ce . s bY bii c gl a i n tTb . eequ . o on both sides = in this House supports the view . which I have taken.- as left uncorrected, 'the matter was' eft as - it - wage the the Government _must not -play - with loaded dice.- But suppose there had been no consent, was there not nfoi• ations'Weee.known to be false-they,were left so. (Cheers.) It is mentioned in Rabelais; that a • distin- another e x pedient ? Would not the rule for a special i " Did you- make a mistake in the Christian ,name - guished j u d g e . when puzzled with a case, used to throw j ur y hate) been discharged ?-(Hear.) The Sh er iff of Of the Rev. Mr. Tierney which you subsequently_ dice for the decision, and according to the dice used to Dublin (Mr. Latouche) is a gentleman of th e ver y eotreeted? ift. -hand- /li t yb es _-__y es . • Was there d ec id e either for the plaintiff or defendant. But in this highest respectability. When the Irish Municipal Bill ins' tt? coe m re r etio , fi •• made in - the case - • of -Mr. Bar-. ( * see th e di ce have a l ways b een l oa d e d for th e Crown. passed you retained the appointment ofsberiff for Dublin; e Bond;. Hughes-No.: -• I , merely-7=one. We contend in this case we have not had our just pro- though- .you had not taken it . from the Corporation' of ioued it" . • .. •. . .. . portion of contingencies. Why, it .was an old practice London. The nppointMent was vested: in the Crown, o ae ;the. . Ste - ese - must • recollect that .the Soliel. of this House, in choosing Committeeseto put names of because you-said that if the Corporation were to appoint c a.Ge n iralL had•been' guilty •of such .a • sin -of omis- Members. into. a glass, and to draw them by chance. the sheriff, the new sheriffs would be just ',at e bed as pioateas that which Ineentioned- just:nowee-aad: in the: Now; suppose the ' names of • twenty seven Tories had' the old ones ; they would as certainly be. Repealers, as next place .thei ' House ~ will. 1,. think ..,not.,. be, been left out-(Cheers)--suppose that-by any' larceny, their predecessors were Antigtepealers.-(Laughter.) stonished that . the Attorney-Gene/et' made that o r loss-and very often one touches on the other- Now, I ic(not say whether you were right or wrong in accusation against - Mts()Voneelle that he . had said twenty-seven er sixty names of Tory Members were taking this course ; but the Crown havin - taken the Ir:Bond Hugheitientioned the matter tothe-Crown- . left out, and that it turned out a Whig commiteee-men appointnient into its own hands, and appointed such elicitor, tereseito himself:from. the _result . .of the Tree, bound by;their oaths; and as little likely, to act contrary men as MiesLatouche, I - ,maintain that you, wonid have pecutione,--(Cheers.) Ole!. Sir, last night the Attorneys to their consciences as a Protestant ury, and suppose' acted most wisely; if you had left the, appointment to ;• perierat thanitit he had made out his case.-e(Cheere the omission were discovered, what , would the ' Tories that' otficere e • (Hear, heir.) You use the words " coin eted:lauglitei.). It was a Matter of great iny'and• con- ay then ?-e-(Loud cheers.) Would they not say; give mon j ury ," b ut the worth " common jury" generally gratulation; the Manner 'in whichhe thought he had ex- v s . a new ballot? . put the twenty-s eve n n ames b ac k? mean - a j ury selected from a part i cu l ar class. The plained those points..• ' But, Sir, I :hope the . House. ill, Would not that be said? and very fairly said; 'andis nOt j ur y - w h o ~_ tried thi s case. were persons compa bear in mind that those gentlemen who.eharged me .with this exactly the case here ?-(Loud cheers.) There were ra ti ve ly of an inferior class. I do not mean to sa y the - corrtiation"ot M`Grath-- , ithO charged . mg with - per- ten Catholics .left on the list;_ suppose by any chance that the middle classes. are not a proper depository 4unding' APGrati - th act •avith treachery*-the HOUse will th e re had been thirteen, the `Crown" could only have apolitical power. I do.not mean to say that it is not remark that those gentlemen, go liberabupon • this acme , etruckaf twelve;:one would haves' been left; they could Wise t?iat - your special juries should be composed of cation _ against- us, and, to. use a- common Orme , s° Pot, have - "get. rid' of him. Of our fair number Protestant tanners, Pretestent piano-forte timers, and naithis•te turn the tables on us ihy e ele inn y, have them; a ,tiekets: ..in - this _. lottery we have been de • Protestant grocers.-(Great laughter.) I cast no reflec eliei, in these transa c tio ns; adopted the•courie w___llidh, 1 . rived, and , a, wreng, has in that particular tio n on a ny on e, b ut I go b ac k to t h e quest i on , w h y did escribiteand - respecting which it is not-now 1113nintentmn- been done us, whether it was of fortune orethe you not permit ' the ~ .Sheriff to .reeurn a common p, the bills had been founT4l(l,. o . epeak e ,--(Load cheers.) result of fraud.-(Cheers.) - Thene - what was the course jury -the . Sheriff appointed b yourielees ? Mr. We adopted ? : 'We took:this - course, we made a motions° Latouche .would have returned men of the highest' con e eiesses'On 'the back of the indictment were demanded by quash „the panel, and here the Atterney-Geneeal was sideratiop-Protestants and Catholics. He would not she defendants. ' That Was at - reasonable .applicae p er f e ctly triumphant. ' Ile did .'not Say' a Word of the hare returned Repettlerg, but he would- have returned e t • in in a d th ict e m n en a Lh s ad ef be th e i n e s v : i n t- t Mori, -,-,Suchan appliektioninehis country-ethis'counerY , , next proceeding, but I will take ca re that I- will de so. - mere of great influence; he would have returned hank united -with.lreland (and ',h ope . l on g., t o . b e • united to. The Cond• said we cannot gnash the panel.- We then: directorssmerchants, and men whose- station 'and. 'cen t:that Country in equal rights and - privileges); Ireland, . made earepus.offers, e we said, let the Recorder of Dub- duct - placed them above suspicion. You had the. that 'Country which' Honourable - Gentlemen - opposite lin revieW, theliii. The COint, said 'there - jilt difficulty: means 'of .' doing :that, _ but you did not do, it. ;professed to be united i n a per f e e t e quality,eand '1 in that. sWe iaid"Piii all the himies•lfi the - ballot:Retie; It was a singular boast ef the. Might Hon. Gentleman, 1 Ilibertyet-Lsay in ,',Englabd- -the invariable , : practeo s - has nclnding those left out. - "tflte'Cotirteinid there it a diffi- the Secretery of State for the Home Department, that ibeen to furnish to -the. trev_ersers the names .which were , ulty in-that. In; ghee, the Court refused to quash the he had recourse to a special jury in this case, when, in on the lilick.'Of theindictmente - May I 'not itesk the At- panel, .and refusedto:giee any kind of remedy. But a s tead of havi ng recourse i n t h e f ormat ion of the j ury to torneyenerat fOr Englandeedee, r e ec t m esf-I be wiones most imeartiel:stisp was afterwards taken. -We chid= men upon whom the high character and moral habits (The AttorneyeGentraleinti nut t e d : th a t,h e - was cortcett)e longed the irray, and on that the AttorneY-General said-- of Mr. Latouche himself might have been impressed, lam borne out hy . high authority, then,- i n , saying that • not a word:4--(The -Attorney-General wasunderatoodto he selected the men I mentioned. What reason, had in thii - country, it is the invariable custom to furnieli.. tiaY.h4o7.-f- , 1 did.',) I do, notreinereber with any par; the Right Hon. Baronet for not having a common jury ? the accused party with the - names of the Witnesses on the ticular minuteness the circumstances that did take place;:Wasit te case in which the Crown might not have availed baCk of the indictment:ln Irelands-Where, ofcoerse, there but the 'HMIs° will forgive me; if P. draw their attention' itself of - its:prerogative of challenging the- jury'? -- My was .e, .perfect, equality-e(Th e ,Rightnoagurabic Gen 0 what Ido recollect of theni. 'We - Challenged the ire , Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Worcester i tleman' here spoke an a tone of bitter. iroity)==the-trai ray, a n d , the; form. ef that challenge is -most material. In, (SirT. Wilde) etaidthey.woulduot have dared exercise versers ' applied`' • to • •1 , ~, 4 'furnished_ With a 'list, of thaechalleag e w e stated th at e s evera l lists in a certaiative; 'The - .AttOtney-General fin Ireland those eetimeWitint. - they were :me t , b y a perempto l ry paper-Writing, pUrpeitine 'to be, a general! list 'of' thu g uld have rlaredlear, hOar)--certainly no refusal.: .. Ware-this -, What is- etolleel.- . ass i m ilating, t )'. pry, and purporting to be made out of the eeveral - liete man can deny his intrepidity.-(Hear, and a laugh.) !administration 'of- the 'law , between the twecountrtes o ' set forth and signed as aforesaid, - was illegally and fl-au But my , Hon. •and Learned Friend says that the Crown Here - Gentlemen opposite ' are ._ very Willing to tale( f - elently,, made out r for- the purpose and intent of is conteolle&by public opinion--,-the Crown, if metin Ire unanimityivheti its-eits'iheir Purpose. The Noble Lord tejudicing die_defendaetan - The n were all the facts. la n d, a t.lea s t in. this country, act;ng, under the coercion ithe Secretary for *the Celetiles has laideagain lind'ag a : i P; . Ut in - issue,: to ' use `the 'legal' phrase. ' We' net only' of British. sentiment, would not have ventured upon an itheatheJndgee Were perfectly unanimous en °rev yuT, eriti?nedllie-nardes, but we ale° put in issue the fraud. act at once so 'culpable and so imprudent as to strike off connected. with. the, trials.- But I assert that it is . ,9nly We put in issue the intention to prejudice_ the defen-e the names of persons of high respectability -because they iWlfeli Unanitnity's'erVaa year pin-pose that yOU'regY C' . 1 . ! .. i dints, -. We • Pelt itte issue eyelet you have suggested . Were Roman Catholics..-(Cheera) •If you Were sincere, hut Svheit: a'dissentieet itipinithj v i als e x p r 6So(l , - -• .. tilts been thine by-the dhfe n e a n ts f or thsi r oW n benefit. in the Manift:.•Station of your desire to have 'Roman Ca ,Lord STANLEY--When? r ' ' .--• ,' ::, , _ , 7 .2 - . i_ " If . the - Crown had- - joined issue i n these- facts, which thelies'up - On - ise j titelyeit had ei Teti - obvious mode of Mr. SIIEILe--,Wbea . Mr. , justice Perrin pronounc u ed might hove b een t r i e d . i tt half Vii hour ' by:the Court, : for carrying your purpo,s.e .in.tele effect tiled realising - that . his otiiiiiOn". Witt the tiaxerSeri were entitled tO be it was,uot a queeticar,to bp tried by a , jury, we having, desire when you found 3 - our mistake. From the panel :niched. Withtlee names of the' . Witriegs&:. - -• Oh; •of cc;!tse - put in issue the 'MOJA m a t er i a l f acts , t h e - loa of . the. froi4 which the Rornan Catholics ',had been 'excluded 'there nisi no notice - taken of their,ai ss e n thmce, but , 119 7. - names Which - Wag material, and the idle "giltion a - fraud yodul Jo t h ave got a common jury :Whose verdict wooled loudly wan the unenimityof the judges blesoned iort o te Which was - Still" more -so, was 'it not the duty of the have been unimpeache4, and the Whole controversy When there was a concurrence of opinion on the part t , Cray au 'h a have. joine4, issue apen :them • under these cite: which hai taken place, anal ad the' agitatioe connected . the tith'dt judges `With ctliti: - Chief Justice, 'Mien he . Tc • eumettinces? I Hit had jeineteissne, and the decision had with it, might have been fortunately averted..-e(Cheers.) plaited his eiew - of the claw as' pplicable' to the cahind.; t heen iii its favour, there - Nebula he 'ail - end of our - objec , Now ender these circumstances ; I ask is it wonderful (Cheers.) 1, will . ...ask' the . House iteit 'dees : net ;_ . ions, and if the ' facts hid been found against it, then- that in Ireland great excitement should have taken that when, .from, the.haernony of the bench , nigh Hon.,t bf course the panel linust .haee.been, altered,. or some ; place? Is it astonishing that the Roman CathOlics of and ' IliOn. Gentleinen and NOble:.le.)?ds nliPil i i e tr i e teelierspep most )141 - e -been, tektit e ,. Then law did the, Ireland should have felt indignant upon the subject? deduced' •'-' coniequeriCes s -so .-- available '1(3.-' t ' i tl t )0 1 .rt.,,4ecide ? . were the Court anaiiimeas . ?. The; (Cheers.) -I4 it Wonderful a great public meeting should particular - !camesa of : policy e n a s•prejudicee, .ea Couet were not. - Mr. Justice Perrine'who• introduced* have taken place in every district of the country on the where ,dissentience-.: of, Opinion.. prevailed on the the Act into Irel an d, w hi c h lie. ' borrowed ne .fio the re- matterlk Were these meetin g s calhal by factious men? botch, an inference equally , unfavourable to .the i rt .0040:e0de of tlie Right .Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel)-- At the heed of one requisition' calling in Dublin a meet course Of pollee. lonl'iikeitidkeln ihose trials; is not 'to be • Mr. Justice Perrin, . who knew the operation of that i ng w a s t h e nam e ' o f Lard Kentnare, one of the most d r aw n ?: lAiy.i stated :Wor e ,' Mr: - JusticeTerrin' de- Act,. who was familiar. with . all its' details, who had • unqualified advocate s O f - th e un i on , :a man of grea t po-• s 'oared that it. Was &matter of righteto anew, she. tre- eerutinised - and- - ad opte d i t s_ maehinerys_mrs Justice sessions and -ancient birth, and closely alli e d t o thi s versers to haseethe;list °fah° wituesses.;%anl• Mr. Jus- Perrin decided, that , the. challenge of 'elm array was country.-(Hear,hear.) That nobleman felt. th e , i nsu lt rice 'Rarton, an Englisliiii4.-Wethegeinie remnant left goode.end. eaid e ehat the demurrer should be over- you :bad -offered to hint, and he signed the requisition, Of thasit'clfitracteristicsby"leh l hiSi eciuntryinen -Were 7 euled e --(Heitr.) tut the .. ,'c eyeen took e adein- not f or th e p ur p ose o f gratifying. any factious .-feeling, 4ietinguished; kaie i , Jetheeeptebdttldnot he required as tags-of`the decision Or the 'Majority of - the Court,. but from a sense of the insult that had been off e red to *a matter, of,righee yet. 4'vvr.44lcl' be, i njudicious to refuse. and Went to , trial; althottele'one of the judges had declared'him: as ' a - Reman Catholic. There was a circumstance It. - I tell the Attorney-Generel. 'who weiet itto - all thet . that the list , of the jury bad _been stained and.cprrypteci that gave additional poignancy to the feelings. of the pert - oflhe ease; 'With respect' to'the`right elf the tra- b y suspicion- :My,. Learned,Vriend su gges t s to me that Roman ' C a tholi cs . o f I re l an d. Th a t c i rcumstance was sersersctii - ihenitnis of the witnesses; he should :have - a dernurrer .1. alwen admits the facts for the purposes of this a-The Right Hon. 'Gentleman, the Attorney- Mentioned theepinions,of justice Burton, Justice Perrin, theanruneut. ' ll nt is the truth ; but I did not dwell ' . Genera for 'lreland; ' - thought fit ; to ' ' advert and Mr. .Whiteside, 'the eloquent counsel '.for Mt. upon.it, because it. as a legal.fiction.e•lelviell upon whet: to conduct- . I, pursued fifteen 'years ago, in - a O'Connell_ 7 (totid ,- and continued cheeritig)---etfid: then is more substantial. - the Crown had the opportunity of trial at ..-Clonmel. •He will excuse. me if I venture to let the House remember that,. an 'applieiition which would. ascertaining a - feet . if the - utneeit materiality- . , edvert in this House to an expression of political ()pinion have been granted'PieelfireZenteyehad been denied in (Heat%) - The Crowns shrank from ' that investiga- by which he made himself most conspicuous in Ireland. Irelanknotwithetatiding tf4strongopinioeementioned by tion, and 'Went' On-aVith the ease, With the protest of one. An opinion of which I believe the Iteent Hon. Baronet, the learned endhighusiuded Judge Bertme e the, decision of the judges against it. ~ LThe verdict. which you have: at the head of her Majesty's Goeernmeint, Is not aware of Mr, Justice Perrin, .and the ,strong arguments of Mr. obtained hiss : been obtained through the interveo 7 v :-(Hear, hear.) .I do ,not mention this for `the purpose Whiteside:-Kllear; hear, and cheers) ladtnit that the` Con of a jury condeinned hy' bee of the ;judges of malevolence--(ironical cheers from th e Mi n i ster i a l Attorney-General hadalloWeathe'trial tote postponed, , who Sat•'in• that Conrt.(Hear, hear.) 7 it all' - the ' benches)-et bear no ill-Will to the Right Hon. Gentle-- but it 'was preved• that it wei .necessary to - procure evi-'1 judge s - were unanimous as to the abstract law stated roan.-Hear ; hoar, froiu the ,Opposition.) I have no Bence on the part of the . CrOWnl, and . ' the next- was, - by . th e . Chi e f -Justice, the : judges : - _eeere not uneni e no tire for ,in-will towards mini; lie meter did me wro n g . that there were . but twenty-fire. Catholics on . the 'p i anel; mous, they were not at all unanimous, es to the verdict; That_Right Hmi. Gentleman imagines that a conspiracy when it wis known tbat many more ought to have been ne because one of . the judgesecbodenmed - the panel, the was entered into at the bar for 'the purpose of exaspe on the apedialjuiy'llst. BO what -If 'dent iS' the miser- ! feundation.anhe -verdict ; and if the' panel be shaken, rating him...and wounding his feelings, that was unfor thin made by : one•f Hon. - Gentleman that this was the . the entire auperstructune,..itl may-80 say, reieed.npon tunately nMistake on his part ; but Ido take upon my fault of. the, Court, for Judge Burton expressed. his este- it, met of course fall ; too.---(Cheers,) I come none to- honour to assure him, that there 'Was no such in nishment thee Catholics twenty - five 9-ea were npon the ! another 'poiticn of this case, ,the striking off' or Rieman on entertiethed.-e:(Hear; hear.) But !leis a public man, jury liit; and 'when this surprise was expressed the Citholice, froM 'the 'jury. I - see I nth oc c upying -the' and in spenkingof public men opposed to him, he does .Hene and lLeereed TAtt o rney-Generale hiving the case ; Hou - se : too long-(Loild - cheers)-buteit -is! a • 'eliae • not exhibit, any particular delicacy, and he must expect, before him, idid "consent. to ,postpone-the=, - trial with the iof . paramount,: :importance, : It -•is ,a - ctiee . • , in, • when political _ antagonists come to scrutinise his con- v i e , as lie .alleged,, eo e tellew time to ! rho •treverserato : which I was counsel, ,in which ,I inevitably took duct e ind examine his motives, they will ask '"what prepare the .necessary evidence fortheir 'defen ce . • But- 'a - ver* . Warm ,interest-4 should feet . ' asluinted- manner of man lie is," and what course he has pursued. I if the Attorney-General lied refitted this appliea, 7, ipi had n ot...ind*ith the facts .of which I am, to a He, last .night, adverted to a speech I made at a trial• tion for Postponement,': ana. :insisted mitheerayeesers I certain extent, more familiar than where-and I ent not.. He said he was sorry.,. for what he , had stated, going lirnmediatelyto trial, andtliet upon a panel_which i conscious that e r e- an ythin g which I have stated I have end, as he says he is sorry.fot it, he is to be forgiven.- was imperfect, and .whiCh 1. -say fearlessly. - - distinctly ', departed ili. the slightest degree from - the-facts.-(Hear, (Hear, hear.) 'lt was impossible that Human Catholics, the' Recorder hirriseltdeelared to be imperfect,'-esees e healer NOW it is said by Mr. scrams` 7 that '-fhere Were' when they came to compare his 'conduct at the trial.with " Mr.'' SHAW (the . Recorder of Dublin)-It was :- ten Roman 'Catholics - on the -fiat Eight of .:them I ail-.. opinions •be had expressed, :should not have 'suspicions -i inneerfect. -- . ; '. _'', ' , e . -. • '''' ': 'i ,•'- ' ..•- el mit were - most ,properly .struck .off-(Pear, beer.) 4- . that Unfair 'dealing was intended' in their re pins. - The ... Mr..SHEIL--Yes, it was imperfect. I none:cone to P••,' cannot fer.st moment pretend that eight men who were; factl allude to is this--a great public assembly took revision Kilii , jury list e indl,shall .begiy• lay'dectering i me - hers of the IlepJal Asaobiation, or ' Sabieribeia' to l place . iii Dublin' in the year.. 1837 Where the prinCheal that ft;lsteti?: firm and sincere Coieviction• het'telhe'Re- I. its funds; ought:to-. have been retained upon !the - Jury, • Conservatives of thateity met together; that great public cordet Or I a C ity - o r p u blineehere *esete lie attached ! I could.no moreCentend for it than -I ,coeld., contced't. assembly moved e aresoluthin e and he -toide e most active not the slightest moral, blame.for tiny one_ the transit- that.hir. Sheriff Kallener sliouldhave been , reettined.epon I . part .in the .proceedings, some of whichrelated tothe tiona with. resp e ct to th ose lists, and I belie ve that h e . jury.-(cries of "Ilene," Yea - I - tithe Oppbalitiei4,But there - question of education.--(Hen r, hear, from -the OppOSi- Welild prefer that his right -liend'shOiild - wither 'rather - were tW . O 'nen' who Were not . members of -:tlieltrepetl;;tion.) -That I mention. in a parenthesis ; - with it thave then employ it i ii an unfair way - , in• :these traosec- - Aatieteiation, oat Tthci ,. ,had-not•subscribed ;to thee peal 4 nothing to do now. The meeting was attended by l!dr. thins:::-But' w hil e I idake.this.statementein ;Which I-feel ) Fula - Med: tl*Afficl A yit, aMr,Kenemis l it is in theee. ;Lytton, Whom you have made a Master' in Chancery -el, assured e v ery ~. one: wito, 7 . kimv-s,•t.he ;-Right Honour- . terms :e--liesays " that hehilieved s end stilt believes e , 'by Mr. Lefroy whom- 3-on have made -a:judge-by Mr. able ,and Leareed Gentkin - anTWill Concur, he will that twOof the persons WheWere Retneit-Catholics Were . 'Ja.ckson : -ilium .you have ids° made a ..j edge f6,4i v. , •me if . 1 ., say' - triae i althOugh • his judicial !' members of the Repeal -Aeeeciati o n, - or be and , 'by the - Right Honourable Gentleman . wham , and ` his Ministerial tines einght..not have concurrede.': its ' funds,'.' , ' Now • Mre Hendrick -is -- a- RetO4ll..cetlen/ic, : you haxemade Attorney-General. The resolutionspas:sed still I tense i_e•wathie pentteloegt ditty ; to, /nave remained , and about 11f r. Ilendrkele theeMieett e leY.:7.oener i l _dd noteeatehat meetingieere- of a .The I most violent cbaracter: 0 .I' l 4 . 'in Dublin-it was his duty tie' have 'beet ,present When' say a - slizigTiesviifa Vsttnight ; lib' &Ta i t tti 'tlitiOn't'declareeL that ithsi.:4 7 trotarsianaoaaaf' izjailaitadl t wol"" 4 that the book containing the jury list was being.made up. He his name.--(Hear, bear.) Now see what course has time in la perilous a condition as in the year 16 41; _ . . . /as the effect of one of the resolutions I hold in iby.'hantl- In the year 1641 a most frightful-massacro of the Pro testants of Ireland is said to: have taken place, and those gen.tle-glan.in the Retendaidhclared that the Protestants -of Ireland ‘ were then in aa perilous a condition as at-tile: above .period, and that the slaughter of their coun .trymen leas contemplated by the. Roman Catholics • Of Jrattud t e-7(Hear, he ar .) . B u t : w ha t eltaes the Right • • Hon. .GQotlelnan Say ? Ile referred me to a copy cf his 'speech, printatby He-did nottell us that that topy was correekd by or by his authority.,.- But. I have Atte speech: of the• Right Hon. - Gentleman here. ,Every one;,here knows::t.hat speech was Inade , by the :flight, linzt,G tie:Agin; and that everybody -.iii! - Dublin A 'clittnot go, to Then i , what doer: hesa.y?aia ` L'u4 gnt'.v.Y - 1 , 114 citcumstances - Iteinindiited eve that .11,onitin: s qe.tholio.- have Very little r e gar d fir err the .sauctity, 0ti.:41 - 14;qt1 - n!'7 l (oriea. t 4. Haar, hear.") Z "ell now, that, wad ;(?Pftif.-aiat Wee nit - ally; prefer it to insidieua iinputation7---(CheerS)--ete hinte, conveyed :•• With an assureption,ef.gentleness and a suavity of voice:. 1 --(Hear,.hear.) Pie Gentleman (Sir Grahairi)•feltindigimat at the proceeding, ad"pt.'d by :the IriSh - Roman Catholics. -The feeling of indignation entertained by them S 110 t Confined to them. you will admit,l-lielieve,. that,Oe Eng.isli Homan Catholics. :are not - Repealers-thet the high Roman Catholic: 'aristocracy of England, men of .exalt,cl position and ancient birth, and exceedinthr muderate in polities are not t ellies of, and co e pariners with.; Daniel -O'Con nell. What.effect did Your prcreedinga produce upon them ? • The-Eari Shrewsbury, when Right Hon. First . Baronet the Ft Lord of the-Treasury came into office, Wrote letter to the Cetholics- of Ireland, in. which he - recall:kneaded theM to support the Administration of the Right -Honourable Baronet. What is . the -letter/which the .Earl of Shrewabury, the . premier Earl :of: Eng land, now writes ? The blood of the Talbots- caught fire at last, • wilekinstilt was offered to. hi‘co-raligienists in Ireland? He says in his letter to Lord.Cmuoys, en the oecasion'ot.the Catholic meeting in London, -esfier • eipres'singliis inability to attend, that he was anxious for_ an opportunity: of -expressing his indignation at-the fresh 'insult that had been offered t o th e Catholic popu lation of the kingdom : by the conduct of the lavv•officers of the CroWn in . the preliminary proceedings on•the interesting : and important trials pending in ; Dublin. That , comes from, a .man himself inclined • ori ginally to ; give his support to •tlie Administration - of the Right • Hon. pentleman, and who wrote a letter 'in which he said that the Right-Hen. Gentleman. hail carried Catholie • tinanciptition, ;and- that . .confidence . should be placed in him. -These facts are startling (Hear, hear)=-and there is no Roman Catholic:With ono spark of 'spirit but muit resent them. See what an anomaly this is 1 You repeal the Catholic Emancipa tion Act, practically, as far.' as the jury -box .is con cerned.' We are admitted to the bench ._ of justice ; you have sent there the late Baron Wolfe, and Sir Michael O'Loghlin ; we are admitted to the Imperial Parliament • which I, a Roman Catholic. have at present the honour of addressing; w,e areadmitted to theßoard of Admiralty, the Treasury, to the Board of Trade, and to the Privy - Council.' But admitted ftS we are to ; the b enc h o f jus tice-admitted to the Senate--admitted to. the Admi ralty, the Treasury, and the Board pf. -Trade-admit ted as we' are to the Privy . Council of our Sovereign,' we are excluded from the jury box. We are excluded from the jury box, which has afforded a refuge to Protestant ascendancy, and has thus become invested with the most odious form of that detestable do minationH(Cheers)-and yet the Noble Lord the S ecretary for Ireland perseveres in his professions, and tells us that he is exceedingly anxious for the adminis tration of justice.-(Cheers.)- At the. last London 'election some person in. the crowd asked Mr.-Baring if he was for free trade. Oh, yes,. said Mr. B ar i ng, " I am for , free trade is the abstract."-( A laugh.) " Will you vote for a repeal of the corn-laws?" asked the man. " Oh," replied Mr. Baring, " that is quite another thing."-(Cheers and laughter.) So the Noble Lord is for an impartial administration of justice in the 'abstract, but when he is asked will he .. .admit Catholics into the jury Lox, he replies, " Oh, that is quite another thing."-(Loud cheering.) But it may be possibly from intirwity of Purpose . that the Noble -Lord takes that course. Not so with Lord De Grey--(Louti cheers) against whom I have a most serious charge to make con nected with this trial; and I hold in key handtkineans of substantiating that . charge.-(hear, hear.) ' The House. has doubtless heard'of the existence of an Asso .ciation in Dublin, called the Protestant Operative Asso ciation. 1 allude to this: Xssociatioe-first. as • ilaa- • trating the results of the policy of the present Govern- meet ; and secondly, as illustrating the eonseetiences of your sacerdotal institutions.-(Lad cheer.) I hold in my hand extracts trom the debates of that --ociety, some of which will read to the ilouee; Popery is denoaii • rutted a God-destroying, Christ-blaspheming, Bible denying superstition.-((sheer s and- laughten) Now, this is from an addreas to the people of England. They denominate Popery gross idolatry, the monstrous pro geny of Satan, and the whole concludes with a panegyric upon the Hon. Member for Knaresboreugh-(Laud laughter)-whose arrival in Dublin, which was then expected, .is stated .as an event which every Irish Pro testant must contemplate with sentiments of gratitude. (Cheers and laughter.) That Hon. Gentleman the Other night read a speech whi c h h e at t r ib ute d to me. He made , a mistake ; that speech was not made by me, but by a .cousin of mine residing in Cork, and it . was made against me, for he said that if he did so and so h e s h ou ld be as bad as Sheil.-(Cheers and laughter.) I asked him *here he fotmd the - speech ; the Hon. Member, showed it.me in the "Annual Register." It was a mistake to attribute to me ; the lion. Gentleman made the mistake, but I certainly acquit him of any intention to misrepre sent me.-(Cheers.) This Dublin Protestant Operative Association presented an address to Lord 1)e Grey im mediately atter the proclamation was issued. On the 13th October, the Dublin Operative Protestant Associa tion presented an address to Lord De Grey, in which, after speaking of the dispersion of the Clontarf meeting, they spoke of - the sacrifice of the mass as a blasphemous fable--(Hear, hear)-dangerous to and destructive of Christianity-that the people of England had insisted upon the abolition of idolatry in India, and that it ibis necessary for the good of Ireland that a law should be made for the total abolition of Popery.(Hear, hear.) Now that was an'address presented to Lord De Grey at a great public crisis-at a time when the public mind was agitated : to its profoundest depths. Now what was Lord De Grey's :answer?-(Hear, hear.) Did he deneunce the-insult thus offered to his fellow-country men,and, through them, to himself ?- (Loud cheers.) When he came to Ireland; he said his Sovereign, when she had sent him there, had charged him to be careful of the interests of Ireland,.for she was peculiarly solicitous for the welfare of her Irish people -(Loud cheers.) Now what was the answer which he, who had received so - solemn a charge, and from whom the benevolent in tentions' of'his Sovereign should have been reflected (Loud cheers)-what was the answer which he had re turned to that address ? I will read it :-" I hare in command from his Excellency the Lord-Lieutenant to Oknowledge the receipt cif the address of the Dublin Operative Protestant Asociation, and his Excellency desires me to make known to those members of the As sociation itho have signed it his warmest acknowledge inents--(linmense cheering)-for their expression of their feelings of kindness and confidence.:'--(Cheers and counter cheers.) Now will the first Lord of the .Trea sury justify the answer?--(lmmense cheering.) I need pot repeat the question. I know that he .will not.- (Load cheers.) The Secretary o' State for the Home Department will say that it- was injudicious ; and as for the Noble Lord opposite -(Lord Stanley), Who is fast Ps!evp—(lmmense cheering, and laughter, during which Lord Stanley roused himself and .bowed to the Ri g ht llon. (Gentlethan.)--Ibeg.te.liand him tb: doe.uw•nts to furnish materials fur his .next :` i'v t atry," (Immense,cheerint.).. Now I, have net said. 0110 VP; about the trials,..aiall shall say but i'itle about them. • I shall nay but, little ge of the ChiefJustioe,• because I %v as the.counsel " on the other side."-(Cheers.) One observation, however, I must-aeake. .The Noble Lord opposite remonstrated with us the other night en . Our want of dedency,--our want of respect to. the Bench in venturing to attack the char go of a judge. Now those who heard. the speech. the :other day are not, per haps, aware that .the, Noble Lord who considered it so indecent in us to cast reflections on the Chief Justice, himself denounced Baron Smith' in this House,. and voted for un inquiry into his conduct.-(Loud cheers.) For inquiry into a charge of .Baron Smith's.. (11e neived cheering.) Lord STANLEY-Not for an inquiry into a aharge. Mr. SHF_IL----You voted for a Committee to inquire into a speech made from the Bench. • -Lord STANLEY-No. Mr. SHEIK--A, motion wits made in this House fur a Committee to inquire- into a charge delivered by Baron Smith from the bench to a grand . jury of the county of Dablin.-(Cheers . .) The Secretary of State for the Home Department will perhaps be able to tell him, for • he voted against the Noble Lord.-(Cheers.) lie was shocked at ,•the Noble Lord's conduct.(Cheers and laughter.) On that occasion the Noble Lord and the Secretary for the Home Department were divided.- (Cheers and laughter.) Only one star appeared en that ()Cession' in Gemini. - (Cheers and laughter,) But let . us pass from that to consider the moral effect of the verdict--(Hear, hear, and Cheers.) Do you expect any beneficial effects from that verdict?--(Loud cheers.) Why, the Home Secretary was, the other night, compelled to admit that there were circumstances connected with those trials that he considered . matter of regret.-{Cheers.) N ow , if there were circumstances which he regretted, he might; I think, have spared the phrase " convicted con spirators."-(Loud cheers.) But. even if the verdict would be untainted---he is an Englishman, and ought not to strike a man when he is down.-(Lond cheers, during which Sir James Graham said something across . the table which we could not catch.) Well ! per haps I ought not- to have said so. At all events, I; sill say that the phrase " convicted conspirators " is an infelieitous -expression, and that, in his' cooler moments, the -Right Hon. Gentleman would wish be bad not used it. Is'the moral cflect of the verdict likely to be inereased by the speeeh-of -the Noble: Lord, the Secretary far the Colonies.-(Cheers.) It was made some days ago, but it is worth remembering.--(Cheers and counter `cheers.}: It will be .remembered -in Ireland-(Cheerse• - and- counter -cheers)-and- it may be remembered in • - Canada. - -(Opposition cheers.} Now my Friend, , Ml:- . .- Fon'olanque, .ha s very justly remarked, that every spr. of- the Noble Lord reminded one of a blistern , very Shining flies:- (Cheers.) And if the Ilonoerable Baronet at the headz ti ; ment could- only bave• Noble Lor d tnadt thatr e - his• usual land did not. now-:belong prudence, if he had toldi department,tl.BllCoiitsl . te l ;_7f re h ° l . . iscreetly(rif he state remembered the of the -people of that thollerinugldonbe ni?gdhthhoeva r!ohuesefdeeblyi-n feelings ch ° • € topics-but the Noble provi nce Lc+rd cowed no t.. e l o nr hitnsttlf the opportunity of giving goinewliat pharasaical uponthe Catholic oath. .114i•litha tbstb Jieacling laugh.) such was 114 etalha4i.;4, lie read It with shu ►.a eD' . f$ l% ri iti ~' /