The Sun. — London, England, 1844-06-04 00:00:00

R. filber t, Prince . arr ived a: A , this ° i, li4 l stern al train. Ti ll ' ▪ a rming , foci its Excel , sit o f xtorton,, , )lonel Ar.,Pberi Coun t 4' e da is , fotow fsos escort of the lbert arid ,—Carkisa was u'7 tY e cth ce ntrer, d i side, be:4 le . fed ger siz e t -irsi artrae ll .o the ; of th e i dir Mr. l er 2g, an" t) . gab- rit d i gob • ,01). aec s liii o el re e t oi t or sereA 00 e$ loft crego; 0 0 ; 0 0 V ex fur QUEEN'S 2 to 1 o ff ered on Alice HawthornSC OT. DERBY-1845. 20 to 1 a gst Colonel Pe es Cobweb colt—taken. 12 to -- ,agst Cobweb co lt and Seamens—taken. 41 t—„ "o agst Lord G. Bentinck's lot—taken. SPOitTING INTELLIGENCE. The eg li .TArrERSALL'S. tt,e business transacted vest afternoon ;rie u e ir se u : Lnuthin ‘ l'beyond a plain quotation of the average ASCOT STAKES. 4 to 1 agst Lord Chesterfield's two—taken 9 to 2 agst Mr. P. Cl ar k e ' s P r i sc ill a T om b oy —taken 1 3 to 2 agst Lord Chesterfield's I'arthian to 1 ag s t Count Bathyan3 - 's Fox.•—taken • to 1 agst Mr. Booth's Donnybrook—taken Backto 1 agst Mr. Smith's El Maherry ers to take 10 to 1 about Johnny. itor, ci li t'oP Was declared not to start ; Amecr is also -, 1 -ath e ' rh e " , :ibal, having broken his leg on Saturday at ad. ASCOT CUP. to 4 agst Mr. Salvia's Alice Hawthorn—taken ,to agst Duke of Ri c h mon d' s L o tha r io—taken 7 • t ° agst Mr. Townelv's Coranna—taken to 1 agst M r. F ord ' s P oison—taken 5 to o 2 agst Alice Hawthorn winning this and the Vase—t \ r itellus is declared not to run. 150inu...k.sno AND RUNNING REIN. ,„„ o 100 was laid on Orlando. 4,4'"u to Inn and 1,000 to 50 was betted that Running Rein kl so f a TI get the Derby and win the St. Leger. sto 1 "s th e that should he succeed in the Trial, he will not vim ut Leger. k.,,,, 41-1 E STATE PRISONERS. S ATURDAY.—The Corporation of Dublin have ( fee f the&requn to the Lord Mayor fir a special meet " council to protest against the firm in which Mr. legit, anal was indicted, to petition Parliament on the sub- The , to condole with their imprisoned brother alderman. ~T a ssda " ) , r el it Mayor has complied with the request, and on d ertiti t e Corporation will take these matters into con- The _o n. Nte,feefPorations of Limerick, Drogheda, Kilkenny, and tork 2mi are to meet for a similar purpose, and the City of W h ',ll be convoked by its Mayors. teratuer,i shopkeepers of Cloninel heard that the " ~,was sent to gaol, they put up the shutters. e thest" n le demonstration of sorrow was made in several 4 XoT i i r il t ,s and villages. .kt e r 'R. MOTION IN THE QUEEN V. O'CONNELL. ae kh o'clock this evening, when the Court of Queen's Atr".gas about to adjourn, 44 11 of t tv," lT EsruE said he had a short motion to make in the 4 sst•;,"e Queen v. O'Connell and others—it was, that the Ctn. °e1(1 direct an inspection of the record. itt.'i,t;Jl:ETlcE—Did you give notice of it to the Crown. „ urrEsoDE—Yes, my Lord. When we found that we t one s o btain an inspection of the indictment, we served .. , tio t ' i ll e Pna the Crown solicitor that we would apply to the -I '...Plie itt; an order to enable us to do so. We ground our sa t " °Pon an affidavit which states that the prisoneTs !der to . '''ed, and believe that it is absolutely necessary, in speed the writ of error, to be allowed to inspect the tp e eelltrienti and ascertain the names of the witnesses that e r is i ar i , 4 ed upon it, not for the purpose of publishing them, ▪° a of any use f them, except in the bona fide prosecu ths ei our writ of error We first applied to Mr. Bourne, 4 is, tr k of the Crown, to permit us as a matter of course e E( l : t !et the document, but lie refused. We then served l °Pon the Crown solicitor, and filed this affidayit, to sets rt„ we positively swear that we make the application ,eu i ,".e,rPme of assigning error on the record. "411;1 d usTicE—This is no hour to come before the Court )taunt*ks-leavY motion of this kind. 411 TesiDE—It is not a heavy motion. I look upon a pplication that ought to be granted as a matter of Ile tastice PERRIN—Is this application opposed? . !th e REWsTrn said the Crown had received no intimation with o „ matter till that morning. He would not assent to it lrMlVtlferther consideration with his Learned Friends. „I ca xactrast said he was with Mr. Whiteside, and 1,,,,' 4 0te why it was that the names of the witnesses on 1 4 114 - `,.: of the indictment were required: their Lordships nur ti , M eMber that there was a plea in abatement on the 'tot that these witnesses had been sworn pursuant to the t he q r.% and altho ug h that bad been overruled by the Court, Z t her () . -Be of Lords might be of a different opinion ; and if w ould be no evidence on that point, of error on the ma di arid in order to set out all the facts upon the writ, 48e ari " of all the witnesses sworn or affirmed should ne tf,thitlY,Le given Ilew was not going to enter into the merits " 4 r ar t of the case, but merely to ask, what he submitted a ktr, tright to get. 41 1 4 i• HrrEsm understand that it is a matter of right. tp • • pl uet ie PERREc—I am surprised at any opposition to '4 , 414 - ' J USTICE—I am surprised that such an applic a t ion ? 4 t It he made. - aps'ditrrxstr iE said he would bring it before their Lord %4aon Monday.—The Court then adjourned. a., THE AN'RIT OF ERROR. .tr e A Y-General having given bis fiat, writs of error t ,„ Dtil letre ra _ te u", taken t for Mr. 'O'Connell and the other state appears l t nn that a pro former application will be I. 4t L'e Court of Queen's Bench' on the writs of error, • L111 4 •"es, touching the already decided validity of the plea -"gate-went, which, as a matter of course, will be refused, 1, the Lords may be appealed to. Opt i . ANOTHER ACCONTi 41/ DEMONSTRATIONS U NSTRATIONS THROUGHOUT THE G COUNTRY. kakket eminent and the Court of Queen's Bench have 14,tr1 1. an agitation and excitement for which there is no al h e t , au 'iljrelapd The people believe that Mr. O'Connell km" Justly convicted . ; they look upon him, their be tiCre th e 'ellerated champion, as a martyr in their cause, Oa_ priso n to which he has been he is much otactar to them than ever. The repeal movement, so far trer, l ll s checked by the sentence, has received a new and Ore t)-21,,kpattatv.„apieotourstoa, The humbler classes have become still . . ro m n a o n w y of the middle classes who had here raceagerly joining. The Government we±le 150 A made it a matter of pride and duty, on the part '`‘t to swell the ranks of the repeaters. This is k acl u„, - .obert P ee l h as ga ined by the State prosecutions l'sa r rn altagement of the jury lists. We are now only at t a lole a ornmencement of this movement, and yet the t ,ee - " a tt , i ltrY is ringing with the cry of indignation at the Watt. r- ' 4ol a of Mr. O'Connell. kt l, -- t r a from C • lonmel, Thurles, Carriek-on-Suir; Dreg heDundalk Newry, Nenagh, Kilkenny,. Cork, tt ei ttll 7 , Peaces, been ' received, from which it appears th. •, excitementZat acesha existed in the public mind in those laz i p tu s h a meetings were immediate)} . to be held to express r :k at hY and confidence of the Irish people in their be tkautte* liberator. The leaders of the people were exerting ootA es t o N I preserve the peace, in which it was hoped they - "'Y B meeeed.l heF MR. O'CONNELL IN PRISON. Yt a Zeraan's Journal of this day contains the following : " s "l t liAY,—The Liberator and his companions are in ki t tr ilti4 , coent of excellent health andspirits, rejoicing in their t heir meat as the most convincing testimony of the truth sq t akee t l l l e launciations against English rule. We were . in yto et a great number of gentlemen called during the lii.,,„PaY their respects to the leader of the Irish people and 4 V l4l P a rlio in t d " ns mar r om. Who e Post of this day contains a list of the gentle. 1)4 p ° viSited Mr. O'Connell this forenoon, including Sir `irti er, Lett H • on Capt. Southwell, Rev. Dr. Yore, Dr. Th U ll , and • • • t ,nlany of our leading citizens. " r aet "r• Miley has addressed a letter to the Freeman's ; -°4l which we extract the following paragraphs : Q THE EDITOR OF THE FREEMAN'S JOURNAL. " at etropolitan Church, Dublin, second day of the 13 .1 2 ) ea ' Captivity,' Eleven o'clock, A.M. tO,•asS have just returned from celebrating the ‹.• b e :lYsteries for O'Connell in his prison cell. You will that my heart is overflowing with emotion 1 etes e t ni°t ion, howev'er, in which there is not blended the hod tincture of saltiest or despondency. Never have . he ash Liberator in a sublimer' attitude than this lro b ,744 l t he knelt, I may say, in fetters, before the altar th. ' l ad freed. It was a spectacle of much grander f k ", ; ai at C,n that of a just man contending with ad,ver hit ~aat those who have been labouring so long, per IrOcli ii rs,' to afflict his spirit, to embitter and disgrace o llot % litit a ,, n g Years, could have beheld the joyous serenity of toe 1, 4 3' th' an ee in receiving the divine communion, I 1%1 p a r h „ e Y would have been sorely disappointed ; but, fo . r ar ka l;: t r : " human nature, I shall persuade myself that it 43,:k Of repented them of their intent in seeking to fix the It ~,b7Aelonious conspirator on such a man. Are I Wa s ' i alinell is not sick he is not sad ; let no one believe NZ; it7ide him in the Court—l aecompanied him to the Ped in tacarce an hour since this hand that writes was . as .de "Ja and I aver upon this knowledge, that he is h e •nth, unshaken ' in his purpose, and undismayed iu the den oWleed the union on Tara or Mullaghmast— tket-Pro.--e anirit pre his mind, and full of buoyant vigour. • *lth -ci •his tsi li sent position, and looks back upon the `,er th and never, ware his hopes of . the future _ loi eitici a? this moment, or more alai to certainty. And Abb ß t not be so?' " th;*ati estt ''SS TO THE PEOPLE OF IRELAND. %s l/ Lr lal ao rdinary meeting of the general Commlttee of k a . I tch atlonal Repeal Association of Ireland, held at the C)1 4 110 1:1s 4 Pg e Rooms, on the 30th of May, 1844, Mr. Wm. l e t ,te h rile • - „„ Leu ,, ll l the chair, it was moved by Sir Colman ad ri c i r s''",secended by Mr. Thomas Davis, that . the foi l. ( if ti; es s De adopted, and be signed by the chairman on hi a 11 41,, e n _Cornmi i +ee " ti teut' o Untrymen,—The leader who, by the labours of ass a r ro e 4d to Ireland, has won the unbounded affection of J our .atry roon and the homage of distant natlobs, has f- 4 tj t i llte • s il eo e t (l io a prison, because he has dared to vindicate as t h oe rs right to self-goverment. I .l. 4 4 o ,, a aree in ff el lgst your brother patoii, , ts share his captivity ‘ts enc e . tl tli gl e Pultts of free discussion and of &Os:operation for b la w SeS have been violated by a forced c4Ptetruction NteePleof Prispiracy t au ea ? trela ri d -'r4 Of • I f so bo you witness these events without L t at r ,, di a l your national fame be branded in cha h7ll-44," Co / r e av e to'the latest age—if otherwise, remember ent_ tor t o urrenee in his sentiments has brought your " -- -cp a • 4131 ea Il aole t rla ° ll . • Console him, then, in his . contine e- - '`C - ertest• int by your sympathy—console him by r 1°43 in the cause of your country ! P'e:fro k e s of Ireland ! To whom do you owe yolar libe ileeutnetk, re„,,cl e g r ading servitude? If your hearts answer to u 4 ;: n e illber that he is a prisoner because he has "taitkr.2estat;i'er°llronnising advocate. 1 4417 .. °t Ireland I—lt may be that in attempting to a e t ite en ke dal l'ar you powerful. been exaspe -2• Ret lie rons °f most assailant, but unless sbl'ltst eoll!letiment be extinguished in your bosoms, w r clat e : e llase i t „ le , i ° ll 3, and remember th at, O'Connell is a pri •")4N arkluha" sought to render your eouutry great, e aPpy. • rig of e • ikN et • verY class and creed !-Rally in defence of teia o rT„stre p. e , ask not an appeal to force. Ours is ,eale Ati late e 7„. a _Peace and perseverance are the guaran :the tha e ti Li t let your opponents feel that they inis -1 *-8:7 t 44 Irish people if they believe that !IL (' ts % ea t tliel te t y Seat Pt!all'itecuitout cess their 4e4 or the national spirit be th '‘'e,:o 4l hah• - • it a 1 .- e ! lt lff st -: ' et to llts very parish, 'nth stern but . calm • -4,,„ era. eXp r 83 ,:oathz and eondolsnee w##-l} ti l „ Patti th e the i nitiati et , a nd to record lif rotest Itr re r r r eeh o e hl r gY era le a d wllfalsvthich theyhave b t ' r Indignante be... the . ti teui: L et t , ot• the they restrain their flocks. of t counties assemble in constitutiona. o tt , a , L i ow n si :c ep.eut i t t on : teb l hn o oe ns chpe: u tri ni o t t e isin the of co o r o ic r e ti n e t l r ds at . ed intelli the I,4tioluat,lt let your ° e kish iti ghts w i n „ l ees perceive that the struggle for v i, e Judo_ ‘ eri min ov a f t o e lfr o et n hla l e y ncd ujith the restoration of " WILL mmittee, lA.M S. O'BRIEN, Chairman." , , b l Sltt. h i . rste 4-81th•-•___-----_ , re dto st t 1 - 11 8 " CONINGSIIT."—AN e are ! c li ew ,:ne that a second edition of " Coningsby, or ,i,Vs. posrBveration," by 'l3. D'lsraeli, Esq., M.P., in bo ok Ntt Au kib °4 ls publibhed this day by Mr. Colburn, It' BQler °r°llgh-street, and may now be had of all 144441 1, 8 ' 444 at all the libraries throughout the BANKING MEETING. • (Abridged from the Ayr Advertiser.) A meeting of the Noblemen, Deputy-Lieutenants, Gimmissioners of Supply, &c., of the county, was held in the Court•-house, here, on Friday last, for the purpose. ofcousidering the resolutions, with respect to banking, übmiLted to the House of Commons by Sir Robert Ptel. Present:—Earl of Eglinton and Winton; James Os wald, of Auchencruive, M.P.; James Ballantine, of Castlehill ; Rigby Wason. of Corwar; J. D. Boswell, or Garallan ; Henry WKerral, of Hillhousa. ; W. G. CamOell, -of Fairfield ; James heron, of Dalraore ; Capt. Hay ; A. C. B. Craufurd. of Ardmillan ; John Hamilton, of Sundrum ; Hugh Miller, of Midtott ; J. P. Wilson, of Polquhairn ; P. W. Kennedy, of Drummil lan; Robert Pettigrew, of Tershaw; George M"raggart, Esq , Ayr; HughCowan, Esq., - Ayr; W. Buntine, Esq., Ayr; W. Brown, of Corphin; John Paul, Esq., Ayr; George Taylor, Esq., Ayr; _Bailie Stewart, Ayr; .D. Aula, Esq., Ayr; Provost Brown v Kilmarnock; Bailie Moore, Newton; Bailie Smith, Prestwick,.&c. . On the motion of Mr. OSWALD, the Earl of Eglinton was called to the chair. _ The Clerk having read the requisition. The Earl of EGLINTON, on opening the business a the day. said that the m-e;ing had been called in conse quence of a requisition from the Committee—who were requested, at last 30th of April meeting, to watch over the proceedings of Government relative to this subject —in order to give the courtly an opportunity of con-. sidering the resolutions lately proposed by Sir Itohert Peel in the House of Commons. A new principle in banking concerns was sought to be established, and should that principle be adopted in England, and the Bill before the House be passed, there could not be a doubt that its provisions would also be extended to Scotland hereafter. Upon the point whether that prin ciple was good or not, he would not, in his place as Chairman, express an opinion. Mr. BALLANTINE said, on submitting the first resolu tion, he regretted that it had fallen into the hands of one so litt e acquainted with the pro'bund question of cur rency ; but it really appeared to him that the principle sought to be established was not a correct one. He could not conceive how it shoulJ ever be thought that the issues ought to be regulated by the state of foreign exchanges, and that the currency ought to control traffic, whether manufacturing, agricultural, or commercial. Currency should be the servant, not the master. There was little opposition brought forward to Sir R. Peal's measure in England: but the . Scotch were deeply interested in main taining the present system. Scotland had now arrived at a great degree of prosperity, for which they were cer tainly, mainly indebted to the system upon which bank ing affairs were managed in this country. To the faci lities which the Scotch banks afforded for conducting monetary affairs, to their prudence in not encouraging speculation, and to the liberality which they extended to the public, were to be mainly attributed the prosperity which they had hitherto enjoyed, and which, if the pre sent system were let &one, they might hope to enjoy hereafter. If the general principle of the new measure were so thoroughly grounded on just and proper views, as Sir Robert Peel seemed to think, it would soon find its way to Scotland. He had already said that part of our prosperity was attributable to the facilities which the :banks afforded us in manu facturing our goods and conducting our mercantile affairs—not to our industry, but to the privileges which we enjoyed. It was well known what benefits we derived from the issue of small notes. By the profit which they derive, the banks were from the circulation of small notes able to accommodate the public much better than they could otherwise do : they were able to establish agencies in remote agricultural and mining districts, which, should the present system be abolished, must inevitably be withdrawn, and the consequence to the farmers and others in these districts would be ex tremely injurious. Mr. Ballantine concluded by reading the first resolution. _ _ _ Mr. OSWALD seconded it. The resovu'i , n; of Sir R. Peel were based upon a new principle, not hitherto acted on, and he thought the county did well in protesting against their adoption. If they allowed them to pass in silence they would be considered as concurring in them. He was sure that they were once passed in England they would very soon be brought to Scotland. If he attempted to effect this at once, however, he might meet with great opposition—as he had formerly found to his cost—but if it were once carried in England, its intro duction into Scotland would be a comparatively easy matter. Mr, TAYLOR stated, as a proof that the measure was intended also for Scotland, that a bank which had been started in Glasgow previous to the introduction of this measure, and who were prepare.' for issuing their notes, had received an intimation that they would not be allowed to do so. The same thing had also taken place in re ference to a bank in Aberdeen. - This resolution was passed unanimously. Mr. BOSWELL proposed the second resolution, which, he said, so completely comprehended all that was ne cessary on the subject, that it was not in his power to state anything further. Every one knew the benefit which had been derived by the circulation of small notes, but if this measure was carried, the Bank of England would have to circulate paper or soverei g ns to the amount of three millions, for which the people must pay—as any one knew that the banks would not. From 1836 to 1841, although a considerable number of new banks had been started, the circulation was scarcely increased, so that the periods of depression that had occurred during that time could not be at tributed to over-issuing—in fact it was imposslie from the very system on which they wee conducted, that an over issue could take place. When a person became possessed of 20/, he put it into a bank for safety, and also to obtain interest upon it. He might withdraw it, but it would only be that it might again be consigned into the same or another bank ; so that the circulation must be kept at the lowest point. The second resolution was seconded by Mr. HAstu.Tox, of Sundrum. Mr. M'KERRAL briefly moved the adoption of the third resolution, and was seconded by Provost MILLER. Mr. WAsost, of Corwar, moved the last resolution. He had been in London when the resolutionswere proposed; and the first questien asked was—" How will they be received in Scotland ?" It was answered that the "Scotch banks would be in favour of it, and that they would lead the people." He thought, however, that a distinction should be drawn between the people and the banks. These resolutions were expressly framed with the view of keeping quiet that spirit which a few years ago had made such a stand against a similar move ment. In 1826 it had beets proposed to prevent the Scotch banks from issuing their own notes for a less amount than 5/ : the letters of Malagrowther had, however, put a stop to . any such intention, and the then Premier was met with such a storm of op position that he was perfectly unable to carry his measure. In attempting a second time to carry such a project, Sir Robert Peel knew that it would be useless to propose it in the same open manner ; but that it was his ultimate object to extend the system to Scotland was beyond a doubt. If the measure passed—of which he thought there could not be a doubt—the present banks in Scotland would have a monopoly; and this was a very sufficient reason why Government were in favour of it. Monopolies, however, generally required some one to pay for keeping them up,.and it would be found that the public in this instance would . be the payers: The neces sary consequence of a suppression of any future banks of issue would be that the present banks would obtain all the benefit of our increasing commerce and manufac tures ; their circulation would be augmented, and thus a circumstance, which, ander a different system would have induced other parties to enter the field of opposi tion, and afford the public increased accommodation at a cheaper rate, will, under the proposed plan, compel the public to pay for giving a monopoly to the banks already established. In every district these large banks had their agencie.s; and on application these agents had re ceived instructions frog their principals—" keep quiet." They had received a monopoly, although it might only be for a short time; and they, after reviewing the matter, had considered it' their interest to allow the measure to pass in silence. But how would the establishment of such a system affect the agricultural districts ? What necessity had been shown for changing the system ? Were the Scotch people in favour of a change—were they not, on the contrary, well satisfied with the present system ? Were they to call a meeting of the people throughout Scotland, they would find that the people would say— "We are quits content with the present' system." Re was afraid that the party who 'proposed this measure, and who professed themselves opposed to uncalled for changes, were in this case waking a change for chang ing sake. The effects of Sir Robert Peel's change would meet them every hour in the day. Every one was in terested in this question—for every one was interested when ha bad to pay out money. The local agencies in remote districts would be withdrawn, as the banks would be deprived of the profit which they had received frOm the issue of one pound notes; and thus a great de gree of inconvenience would be felt by the inhabitants in these districts. Gentlemen carrying on agricultural improvements would experience its effects. At present, they could draw on the banking agent in their locality for money 'to pay their labourers; but if this accom modation Wen) done Ally with, he was sure that there would be a great diminution in the amount of agricul tural labour. Mr. TAYLOR, in seconding the adoption of the reso lption, remarked that the exchanges arose from the im ports exceeding the exports, or vice versa—the balance of payment mug gold. It was not in' the power of any Government to Mamie - the bulaqee of payment without producing paralysation of trade, and great confusion amongst mercantile transaction* generally throughout the country. 7o any attempt to feet a diminution of the issues was alone to be attributed t e•deptesakm of trade. On the 'suggestion of Lord Eglinton, it was agreed that the resolutions should be - published, and copies sent to the difrerept conveners of the counties and influential persons throughout aeoland, and to the Members of both Houses of Parliament ponneitted with the kingdom. Th a nks were passed to the F.ari Of gglintpn i ot} the motion of Mr. R. Wason, • Luz ACY.7—An account of all moneys received for ticews„ and of all moneys received and paid out .of the CoomlidAtfe4 Fod, by the clerk and treasurer of the Metropolitan Gotninissi9l4 in T.4unacy, from the Ist day 'August. is 42, to the Ist d'fliorAgg4st„ j§,1, 1 has been ut pursuant t() the pr14v 1. 09 1 11 of presented - *nada K u i 1370Vided, IVp find Plat the Act in such cas.. *h* CorninlS2ioll during the the total amount received by w4 Trenur, , year above-mentioned by orders from of sums disc was 7,525/., and the total rsed 9,4981., leaving a balance due to ti3o l3tersii s §ion on the 4 Mpllut year's account amounting to the large su f 1,4!01. Pf the amount disbursed, the sum : of 2,761 h w4s apPF9Fi: ated to the fees of legal and medics! 00eIMUSIoVet's through England and Wales. The cash received by Commission for licenses amounted to t he sum o f 942/.. The account is signed by Lord Ashley, Messrs. J. It• Gower, F. Barlow, Bissett Uswliigkt sTe R. Hume, Bright, and B. W. PrOctor. i'itIPEitIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, June 3. Their Lordships met at Five o'clock. The Earl of CAWDOR presented a petition" against the union of the sees of St. Asaph and a,angor. The Duke of BUCCLELTCH ?resented a petition praying for the legalisaton of Pre.byte7l-.1 marriages.. Messengers from the Commons brc7ght up several Bills. 'The Marquis of NORMANBY presented several peti tions from different parts of Ireland, - praying their Lord ships to legalise Presbyterian marriages. WOOL DUTIES. Lord KINNAIRD wished to ask the Noble Duke on the cross bench (the Duke of Richmond), whether, now that he had got the return relating to the wool duty, and considering a - late appointment which had been made in the Government, he intended to make any motion on the subject of the duties on wool? He wished also to move for a return of the imports of salmon since the alteration in the duty. He moved for this return to show that the reduction which had taken place in the produce of the Noble Duke's salmon fisheries in Scot land was not owing to the importation which had taken place under the tariff. The Duke of RICHMOND expressed his great sur prise at the course which the Noble Lord had taken. lle rose to put a question, and in doing so, he indulged in insinuations against him (the Duke of Richmond). If the Noble Lord had any charge to make against him, let him make it like a man. It was contrary to the practice of that House, and contrary to the practice of society, in whch gentlemen were supposed to move, to make such insinuations as the Nob'e Lord had indulged in. What did the Noble Lord mean by alluding to a recent appoint ment, if he did not allude to the appointment of one of his (the Duke of Richmond's) brothers to the office of a Lord of the Treasury? Did the NOble Lord suppose, that because that appointment had been made he (the Duke of Richmond) was thereby " gagg d?" — (Hear, hear.) He . had, known nothing of the appoint ment of his brother until after it had taken place. His brother certainly came to him and informed him that the appointment had been offered to him, . and wished to have his advice upon it. His answer was; " I think you had better remain in the command of your re giment ; but you are the best judge. I would not take office under the Government, because I cannot agree with all their measures." His brother, however, accepted the office. He (the Duke of Richmond) would remind their Lordships that he had given np his place as a Cabinet Minister because he could not agree with his colleagues. He would say nothing now about the coal duties, as he • intended to speak upon the subject on the third reading of the Coal Duties Bill. Lord KINNAIRD disclaimed any intention of insi nuating that the Noble Duke would be " gagged" by th 6 appointment.of his brother. After a few words from the Duke of RICHMOND, the subject dropped. THE LOND0 4 1:1, TUESDAY_ MORNI N' G, JUNE 4, 1844, Harbour, Worthing, and other place-3 in Sussex, against the Bill. Mr. VESEY presented petitions from Mary borough and Abeyleix, in the Queen's County., against the Na: tional System of Education in Ireland. Mr. IRWIN presented petitions against the Dissen ters' Chapels Bill, and also petitions against the union of the bishoprics of Bangor and St. Asa At. Mr. BARNABY presented petitto' :is in favour of the Dissenters' Chapels Bill, and against Cie union of the Welsh , bishoprics. Mr. ALIiAM presented petitions from Leeds against the Dissenters' Chapel Bill, and othe.-s, as we under stood, in favour of the 1 3i11.—(lie.x.) Mr. PRAED presented petitions against the Bill, but we could not catch the nam..s of the prt.tions. Sir J. Y. BULLER presented pe aions from .conc.,rre gations of Wesleyan Methodists, and of Baptists, against the BilL Mr. P. HOWARD presented several petitions from congregations of Weileyun Methodists, and others, against the Bill. - Mr. SI BU l'T presented petitions • from Derby in favour of, the Bill.—(Hear.) Mr. HARDY presented a number of petitions from Durham against the Bill. Captain ROLLS prese7:t,d several petitions from eon gregations in ‘Vetiuilister against the Bill, and also several in its favour.—(l[,•ar, hear.) Mr. BOYD presented petitions from Coleraine, against the Bill, and also fo r the legalisation ..of mixed marriages by Presbyt, rian ministers. Co!. RAWDON pr , , tinted pAii.ions in favour of the mixed marriages. • Sir 11.. INC/ LIS presented petitions against the Dis senters' Chapels Bill, from places in Dorsetsl.ire and Berkshire. The Right lion. Baronet also presented a petition from the hollers of benefices in Sussex and in Yorkshire, complaioing of the present law of parochial assessment. Ile also presen•e!l petitions from various places, against the union of the Welsh bishoprics. Sir WILLIAM CLAY presented petitions from Dis senters of the To ser Ilumlets, against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill. Mr. SC 11 0 LEFI ELD presented petitions against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill, from the congregation of the Wesleyan Chapel at Birtu;ngharn, and from the congre gation of the Wesleyan Chapel at Islington, near Bir mingham. Mr. PLUMPTRE presented similar petition's. Mr. E. TENNENT also preseutel petitions to the same effect. Dr. BOWRING presented several petitions from Lynn and other places in favour of t!le Bill. Lord DUNCAN presented several petitions from Bath and other places against the Bill. AIARYPORT AND CARLISLE RAILWAY. On the motion of Mr. G. DUNCAN, the Lords' amendments to the Maryport and C Aisle Railway Bill were agreed to. On the motion of Mr. BROTHERTON, the Liverpool Docks Bill was read a third time and passed. The Ventnor Improvement Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. ROSS presented three petitions, from Down and Antrim, against the .Dissenters' Chapels . B 11. Lord F. EGERTON presented. similar petitions. Mr. LABOUCHERE presented similar petitions from Taunton and other places. Several other Members presented petitions against, and in favour of, the Dissenters , Chapels Bill. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE presented a petition signed by 60,000 peisons, praying for some inquiry into the course pursued with respect to the export of coals. On the mo tion of the Hon Member the petition was ordered to be printed, when he gave notice of his intention to call the attention of the House to the subject on an early day. Mr. M. PHILIPS presented several petitions against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill. Mr. Sergeant MURPHY presented similar petitions. NOTICE OF MOTION—THE STATE TRIALS. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE gave notice that, on the first day on which the Order of the Day for going into Com mittee of Ways and Means, or Committee of Supply, should be read, he should move for an address to her Majesty, praying that the further execution of the sen tence passed on Mr. O'Connell be suspended till the writ of error should be decided. TRADE WITH PRUSSIA. Dr. BOWlnid-gave notice of his intention to move for the production of any correspondence between the Foreign-otlice and the Government of Prussia, with re spect to our commercial relations with that country. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. Dr. BOWRING, see i n g the Hon. B arone t, th e Secre tary of the Treasury, in his place. askod when the re turns relating to the changes that had be.n made in the manner of keeping the public accounts might be ex pected to be laid on the table ? He had given notice of a motion on the subject. but considered it important that the returns should be before the House before he did so. It appeared from Sir G. CLERK'S answer, that the returns were not ready, and Dr. BOWRING deferred his motion till they should have been perfected. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS. Mr. P. BORTHWICK gave notice that on the report of the Ecclesiastical Courts' Bill being brought up, he should move that it be received that day six months. SCOTCH CRIMINAL LAW. Mr. WALLACE moved for a return of the protest of the jury who tried Alexander Walker for an assault, with intent, &c., and for other documents connected with the trial. FACTORIES BILL. Lord WHARNCLIFFE moved the third reading of this Bill. • The Earl of RADNOR did not think that legislation was required upon the subject of female labour in factories. The Duke of SUTHERLAND would not oppose the Bill. He would, however, have supported a measure limiting the hours of labour to a smaller number than twelve hours. _ . . Lord BROUGHAM thought legislation on this sub ject did a great deal more harm than it did good Legislation upon this subject -must necessarily be ignorant legislation, and therefore it must be bad. This Bill could be nothing else than a Bill to cramp the in dustry of the working classes, and to cramp the powers of the manufacturers. The working classes had already the power in their own hands of working as long or as short as they pleased. He was afraid this Bill would not be the last, upon the subject ; Jew, he trusted that the Government would not again lend itself to any fur ther attempt to cramp the energies of our manufacturers, and to curb the industry of the working classes. Should they do so, tl.ey would only be arming foreign manufac turers with fresh powers ‘o compete with this counfry. The Marquis of NORMANBY would give his vote in favour of this Bill, in the hope that it would lead to further legislation on the subject. The Noble and Learned Lord said they were legalising in ignorance upon this snbject. Why, what did Mr. Baker, the fac tory inspectors say upon this matter? He said that the manufacturers employed women while men were stand ing idle. With this fact before their eyes, could any man for a moment say that they were legislating in ignorance on this subject ? Their L mdships must recollect that in the manufacturing districts human labour was made a por tion of a power which never tired. The hours of labour of the agricultural labourers were limited by the length of day, but the working classes in the manufacturing towns worked by a light which was never extinguished. Ho was glad to hear that his Noble Friend behind him (the Duke of Sutherland), entertained a similar opinion to him upon this subject ; but bad he stood alone he would have advanced the strong opinion with respect to factory labour which he had just expressed to their Lordships. Lord WHARNCLIFFE admitted that a great por tion of the wealth of this country flowed from her manufactures, but he also knew that we had paid a ter rible price fur that wealth. He was old enough to re member, that instead of high mills studding the country in the West Riding of Yorkshire, every cottager worked his own loom by means of his wife and children, and the wife had sufficient time to attend to her domestic duties. Now, however, the large mills were filled with women, and these women knew absolutely nothing but how to tie the knots and attend to the machinery in the mills. This kind of labour was demoralising to these women. In many mills in the country men were entirely ex cluded, and the consequence of this was, that the women acquired the same habits as the men. They drank, and instead of the wives having to fetch the husbands home, the husbands had to fetch the wi wes home. Was such a state of things to be allowed to exist without any at tempt being made to remedy it ? The Bill was then read a third time and passed. On the motion of Lord DENMAN, 'Wilson's Estate Bill was ordered to be postponed from to-morrow until the report of the judges, to whom the Bill had been re ferred, had been presented to their Lordships. NIGHT POACHING BILL. The Earl of STRADBROKE moved the third reading of this Bill. The Earl of RADNOR opposed the Bill, on the ground that the law at present in existence with respect to poaching was quite strong enough. He believed that the continuance of poaching was owing to the distress existing in the country. Earl FITZHARDINGE denied that the persons who were in the habit of poaching were driven to the com mission of that offence by distress. Those persons were generally idle and dissolute persons, and men who passed the principal part of their time in the ale-house. He must protest against its being put forth that the majority of the persons charged with poaching had been driven to that offence by the distressed circumstances under which they were labouring. Lord BROUGHAM complained of the slovenly manner in which the Bill had been drawn up, inasmuch as the preamble differed from the enacting parts of the Bill. Lord CAMPBELL supported the Bill, which was to meet cases of persons being found in a public road with instruments for, and in the act of destroying game. The LORD CHANCELLOR thought the Bill was very defective in its construction ' and contended that if ' passed in its then state, it a ould be inoperative. Lord BROUGHAM suggested that the further con sideration of the Bill had better be postponed for a few days. The Earl of STRADBROKE then postponed the Bill till Monday next. CUSTOMS BILL. The Earl of DALHOUSIE moved the third reading of this Bill. The Duke of RICHMOND objected to the abolition of the duty on the article of wool, and contended that it would have the effect of ruining many of the flock masters of the country. The object, it was stated, of the reduction of the wool duty was to benefit the manufacturing interest of the country. Now, if this were the case, the foreigner would, of course, in self defence, increase the duty . on our ma nufactures. He believed, and in this opinion he was borne out by the short-wool growers of the country, that this measure was inexpedient aad ought not to pass. He opposed the measure because he believed it to be a step in the road to free trade, and he believed that if free-trade principles were to be adopted by the Go vernment, it would ultimately lead to the ruin of this country. He also objected to the reduction in the duty on vinegar as being much too large. At present the duty on vinegar was 18 guineas a ton, and it was proposed to reduce it to fourguineas per.ton. He did not think that was just to the vinegar manufacturer in this country. Why did not the Government now try their hands at taking off some of the burdens on agri culture ? He thought it was but fair to turn and turn about. He could not give the measure his support. Lord `YHARNCLIFFE • .defended the measure, and contended that its effect would be to increase the demand for home grown wool. Lord BEAUMONT defended the measure. The Bari of RADNOR expressed his regret that the reduction in the duty on glass had not extended further. The Earl of DALHOUSIE replied; and The Bill was read a third time and passed. The Stamp Duties Bill was read a second time, and their Lordships then adjourned. INUSS OF COMMONS, June 3. The SVNAKER took the Chair at a few minutes to Four NEW MEMBER: Mr. ENTWISLE was introduced by Mr. BlackbUrn and Mr. W. Patten, and took the oaths and his seat for South Lancashire. The further consideration of the Reports on the Ash ton and Stalelbridge Railway Bills was postponed till to - orrow (this day. e r Slammannan junction Railway Bill was read a thir)time and passed. The Eastern Counties (Newport lieviations) Bill was read a third time and passed. . The Report upon the Wick Tree Roads Bill waa brought up and received; as *as also the Report upon Edward's Estate Bill. EDUCATION IN IRELAND; • 4r. IfAMILTQS mipted a petition from Bandon, §igng4 . by I.4.oFalitTclP3 cif 4 611 41 C gf the 1144 K at which it - was arced agrain§t 0:9 Resent 43qtern of National Educatton in Ireland. The lion; Men her pre, seated petitions from Carlow and 'other places to the same effect. PISSENTERS' CHAPELS BILL. 4r. 44q4N p:. seated Ezvere . petitions against the 114, e dg . signizOn2 of were Rot heard iu tigt gage. C.,Yr ' Lord hAniiiNGTON preti@nted pOtitigns •• flivonr of the Bill .—( Hear , item) • , , . k? Caftan PECHELL pregnit44 petition um PM POOR-LAW RETURNS. Captain PECHEL[ mtved for a r,turn of the number of ! supers who had received indoor or out-door relief it, the various parishes of the kingdom, which are not joined in unio.s. ART-UNION COMMITTEE. Mr. WYSE moved that Mr. Lidded and Mr. Hayter be discharged from further attendane.i on the Select Committee on Art-Unions, an 1 that ►fr. Mackinnon and Sir Wm. Clay be added to the said Committee. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. Mr. BAILLIE COCHRANEsaidtVather Majesty's Government had st.tted that it was their intention to take the Poor-law Bill immediately after the Factories Bill. It now appeared the Right Hon. Baronet intended to proceed with the Bank Charter Bill. The second reading of the Poor-law Bill had been permitted to pass sub silentio, upon the understanding that it would be brought on early. It now appeared as if it were to be indefinitely postponed. He wished to ask if the Go vernment would fix the day when the discussion on tht Poor-law Bill was to com e on ? Sir R. PEEL said that there was nothing more diffi cult than to fix the. precedence of important measures. The Bank Charter Bill, involving, as it did, the mone tary interests of the country, was a measure of the ut • most public importance. Ho would, however, on Thurs • day state the precedence iu which ho intended to take PEEL r C e e s a the public business f er t h e week. Right Hon. Gentlem an would state ou Thursday w h en with d the Bill?wis o d to know whether the h e Sir Mr. H BCp would o o H ea R w A i N sible when he would b r i ng it on.—(A laugh-) Mr. ROEBUCK w i shed to know when t h e Ri g ht lion.. Baronet would proceed with the Ecc l es i as ti ca l Courts Bill?—(A lau g h .) Sir R. PEEL said t h at he should f i rst procee d w i t h the Bank Charter Bill. He did not know when he should proceed with the s econd clause of the E cc l es i as ti ca l he would state as nearly as pos - Courts Bill?—(A laugh.) Sir W. BARRON wished to know when the. Right lion. Baronet would proceed with the Irish Registration Bill ?—(Laughter.) Sir it PEEL would endeavour hereafter to name such a day as would be convenient. After the answers be had given to other questions, the Lion. Baronet could not expect that he would now name a day. Lord J. RUSSELL asked whether he was to under stand that the first business on 'Monday would be the Bank Charter Bill ? Sir R. PEEL was understood to say that nothing was to take precedence of the Bank Charter Bill. GUERNSEY. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to know from the Right Hon. Baronet whether the statetrent he had seen in the newspapers respecting the sending of troops and mili tary stores, and uminuniLion, was correct, and whether it was in consequence of any local disturbances in the island they were sent ? Sir R. PEEL said he wished the Hon. Gentleman would put the question to the I:Wit Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he was in his place. Mr. DUNCOMBE gave notice of putting the question accordingly; and asked if the Right Honourable Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had any objection to lay on the table a copy of the judgment and commitment in the case of •' The Queen v. O'Connell and others ?" Sir R. PEEL said, perhaps the lion. Gentleman would give notice of his intention to move for it. CANADA.—MR. BARROW. On the Order of the Day for going into Committee do the Sugar Dutiei being moved, Lord SANDON presented a petition from Liverpool against any reduction of the duty. Mr. ROEBUCK hoped the House would allow him to take that opportunity to do justice to a gentleman, Mr. Barrow, respecting whom be had made some observa tions on the debate on Canada. Lille lion. Member spoke in so low a tone that he could not be correctly followed.] He had received a letter from Mr. Barrow, explaining that he was not the author of the note which he (Mr. Roebuck) had attributed to him in the debate. WAYS AND MEANS.-SUGAR DU TIES. having been z ea d, ' an d t h e The Order of the Day for the Committee of Ways ) The CHANCELLOR of the EX:aIIEQIJER said th a t, a s n pe d ak M e e r a h n a s v ( in S g ug le a f r t t D he ut c ie h s alr, although he was addressing the House fornied- into Cone him that mittee of Ways and Means , the ob,ject• of which was essentially to provide means for raising the supply for carrying on the Government and administering the affairs of the nation, he was sure that there was not a to Mem a b d e m r it wh t o hat he g a u rd estimis wen . , w as, not ,prepared involied ~. in the resolutions which he had to submit .of far greater importance than mere considerations of revenue. lie was sure they, would all admit that the question of the sugar duties involved' considerations of the greatest importance to all classes in this country—to the interests of our own colonies, and to our intercourse with those nations with which we had so long and steadily delayed to form treaties, in consequence of considera tions with which this question was connected. It would be his duty to reconcile the various con flicting points which would arise out of the alto. ration . In . the suer ( Nth's—At would •be his o f sugar with the course which the duty to recorteile the messUPlas -WltiOlt Would be taken to trade, and - also with the int erests of those who had i.q to the slave Ig Gt il ve re rnm s e6nutPtiYad pursued with aspect possessions of this $44 . tilP Willathlll- of thiltil ol 4sP, to uphold. There he believed it e v o e t t li eg t, tll , ettinrap,ajecriityitinwth,Ase c h o i l s ol d i li is t l y, 44 Was 4299 t4inif itl Whi c h he f el t 84 tisfied that he should 'IMP She RnaßiPloo 69413041- 44 the jim0ie...6.4 to the Reettisit i r of keeping up the supply of 'Al t ar, which had ~'. i'~ _ - • - hedonics almOst a-necessary of life, essential to the eons- . fort of a - large number of the•people ; upon this - the rouse shade always expressed a decided "opinion. The maintetianee of an essential article was a subject on which lee ..vas sure there would be no difference ofopinions although there might be a differencO as to the manner in whi Si it would be most expedient to maintain that susply. That object had here:ofore been secured by the -leg station which they had at different times adopted. Previous to. the emancipation of the riegroes the pro lace of our West Indian • colonies was more than sufficient for the consumption in these countries; and tillowsd of the export of at least 'one-third t:f the • whole. At- • that time the • supply of this ce , leitry was secured, and there was a good assu rance that the price would be kept down to a proportion With ehe prices in other countries ; 'bss the effect of that large ant constant surplus, disposed sof in the other marke a of Europe. -But when the emancipation of nee ' roes took place there. was" a pro b that there would be a diminished supply, to Mee! ••e hich diminution Parlianaent - determined, by equaibiag the duties upon East and West Indian sugars, to bring into the market the produce - of a part of tho British - dominions, having a ri c h s o il, cultivated by free and cheap leboter, and possessing- -very great facilities of communication and transit to this country. He did not apprehend that the immediate "consequence hf adhering to the present system Would be ,to create tiny great dearth of sugar, or cause any serious' incon 4/eine:lc-sin this respect. -But. when he considered the improve.' coneli;ion of the population within the last year. froth the extension of employment and increase of Svogs.s that had. taken place, and the consequent demand thet w atlel arise for an article that was now little short pt a necessary of life, he had thought it Ilia duty to sub mit a measure • that should provide. not merely tier the supply of it that might be imme diately required -for the • consumption of the Country,. but also to -create something. of a surplds. There twits, in consequence of their altered relations with China, facility of procuring a supply froin that country, and it was important, in order to extend their trade ; that a freer admission should be given to other articles from China than these which they. had. hitherto taken. Under these circumstances he had thought it his duty to sub mit the proposition of which he had given notice, .for the admission of free-labour sugar upon the terms stated in the resolution. The proposition. was not now for 'the first. bins submitted to the ,House, and on l oo ki ng back on the occasions on which it. had been under Icon,Ocration, he could not find that there had been any tlisp es - thin en the part of any gentleman in that House to obje,4- to the-principle Ofsuch an arrangement. Ifit had been opp, ea , d on those occasions, it had _been, met by . argil :rents applicable tp the circumstances of- the time at. which the pi opo,ition wets : made. He Would ask the `Hint. Altanher tor. Taunton (Mr. Labouchere), upon whom it had devolved to resist this proposition, whether his Of jeetion . to . it did not arise principally from the .circula tAnc..s or the time?. This country was then under the tibligst ions of commercial treaties with the United Stat.s, anti partictilsrly with Brazil, 'and it was impos aible: to .ter the- distinction between slave and free grtiw4i trig while professing to admit the latter they might give .indiscriminate admission to the former. In leg,: rill -1g the mode in which free-labour sugar was to be admitted to their markets, th- y mu-t first guard against the invasion of the principles on which they proceeded, by allowing the intrOduCtion of free-labour sugar being made a cloak for bringing in the Sugar produced by slaves. With respect to the (nod of.guarding against such an introduction, he thought th .ro would be but little difficulty. it had been foUnd that a certificate of ori g i n , accompanied as. it was now inteaded it should be, by the certificate of the British authority at the port of shipment, were sufficient to - prevent any. invasion of the law. It was not necessary to repeat the arrangements which would be adapted tee prevent the introduction of slave labour susar under, the denomination of free-labour sugar.. Telose arrangements - had been found quite effectual in relation to other articles. There were some who suppos,ed that the protective duty of 10s. per cwt. was more than was necessary for the - protection of our colonial interest+ against the competition of free-labour sugar, but it should .be recollected, that in Java alone a much greater qemeitity of sugar was raised than was requisite for the supply of the country; and it was raised in great quantities in Manilla, where its cultivation • was capable of teeing greatly extended; and -that with re spect to Chine, while it was impossible to calculate the quantity of sager which must be expected from that country, it was - well known that it exported large quantities to countries in the neighbourhood. He sound, • however, that the measure which he was about to submit to the House was likely to meet with Opposition from various quarters on different grounds. The Hon. Member for Dumfries argued that no distinction of duty ought to be made between sugar, the produce of the British possessions, and that which was the produce of any tither country. The Noble Lord - (the Member for London) was prepared to contend that no distinc tion in duty ought to be made bet Ween sugar the produce of free labour and sugar the produce of slave labour, whilst his lion. Friend behind him was prepared tee agree that the protection proposed for colonial sugar against sugar the produce of free labour was insufficient, .nd therefore he proposed a reduction of the duty on .a)lonial sugar. With respect to the proposition of the lion. Member for Dumfries, he need not occupy the time of the House by discussing it. It had been•ful!y . discussed in 1842, when the House - had expressed an opinion not in ascordance with that entertained by the Hon. Member, and during the present year in a discussion on the gees tion-of coif Is the House had adhered to its former opinion, e.Wch was that the colonial possessions of the empire were entitled to protection. He came, in the- next place, to consider the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Bristol, and he could assure him that those intirested in the West Indian possessions of the country must not impute to the Government • Want• .of sym pathy wi;1) their interests and feelings. He felt deep sympathy with their interests, and he could make all allowances fur the feelings under which they laboured. But after most attentive consideration of the subject, he believed th- measure which he was about to pro pose was the one which would ultimately prove the best caleuheted to promote -their permanent prosperity. He would not deny but that the effect of the measure would be to effect a certain reduction in the price of sugar, or ra:her to prevent its augmentation; but of this he was confi.lent, that of all the dangers which could effect the West Indian interests, none could be greater than such an increase in the price of their staple commodity as would hi - Wet such an injury upon the population of this country as to raise a permanently hostile feeling against them. Ile was convinced that if the price of sugar eas tee rise to 495. per cwt., as it d was in 1840, the effect whibh ; t would produce upon the permanent interests of the colonial proprietors would be most disastrous. He thought it was neeessary Where him intended to make a change in the amount of duty at the earliest possible mo ment, to intimate to the parties what was the amount of the protection tee be ensured on the introduction of sugar, the produ e of free labour. The colonies stood in this particular situation :—they were , looking to an early period of having the opportunity of employing additional labour. In order to do this they would have to invest capital ; and he thought; therefore, Is'ore they called upon them to embark in this expedition, it was but right that they should know dis tinctly that the protection they now had would be con; tinued. . With respect to-the notice that had been given by the No' le Lord, the Member for the City of London, he had only to say that he thought it would be found to be, one very difficult to carry. out. The Noble Lord was prepared to extend to all sugar the same protection. The views of the Noble Lord appeared to hi m no t calculated to effect the object he had in view..- He was for unlimited introduction, -and that- would undoubtedly tend to the increase of theve-trade. But he would leave it•to the Noble Lord to explain his own views on the sub jset. 11 hat inconsistency would it not be on their part to make such exertions as they had been making for the suppr e ssion of the slave trade, and which w as s till car ried sei in spite of all their energy, in spite of the vessels • which they had 'on• the coast of Africa, if they now gave ftcilities for. the introduction of slave-grown sugar. It would •give those who were engaged in the era he every inducement to continue it. When the estimates were before the House the 'Hon., Member for e said, with perfect truth, that they could only, suppress the slave trade by diminishing the, profits of those who - were engaged 'in it, and not by force.. How could they more effec-. , tuft is reduce the profits of -those embarked in the slave' trade than by shutting them. out - from the- markets' of Great Britain? Ile should therefore like to know how the Noble Lord Would defend his' proposition?, He had heard it hinted that by admitting sugar, the_ produce of r i ign countries not fee using slaie labour, they wou ld cre ate. a-vacuum in other countries which would be supplied fr6iii Brazil and - other slave-growing tountries. Hie .differed_ from that view entirely.: He was of ppiamn • the effect of it would be •to enh a n ce th e price of slave-grown sugar as contrasted with -the produce Of • free countries. But it was no Matter to them how other countries acted, their consciences - would be free. He now begged to advert, to -another . 'part of the question, that which related to the granting of favourable, terms to those c. untries with which they had commercial treaties. B'-azil was a country with which they had a treaty Of this kind. They had also treaties with the Uuiteel States, Sweden, Mexico, Buenos Ayres, Columbia, Bolivia, and Peru. In some of these countries there was no pretence for • saying that the slave trade existed. Mexico and Colum bia had declared that they, would consider the slave trade as piracy ; : and there was no apprehension is to the amount of sugar which those countries could produce, or - of any "encouragement for the slave trade. The . only , territories that remained were those . of the United States and Sweden-;- Sweden possessing only one small-island; the produce of which was not sufficient for . the supply of Sweden her self The United States certainly produced 50,000 tons per year; but they also imported a very large quantity from Other countries . But it had been suggested that the Americans would give . a bounty of Us.. or 18s., to enable them . . to compete- But that was not consistent with the general character _ot - American statesmen, who had recently abolished the syStern of bounties upon exports. After a few further • observations the' Right Hon. Gentleman conclnded by moving the Supply granted 'to 1. That, towards tithing her Majesty ; the *veva duties, new payable on slia; ar ba fur . thei c p il tyi n 6d for a time to be li mited, save And except • that from and Olin th e 'loth day . . of Noveinber next, thete khNll .be charged on brow?, MuSf;:oiado i or clayed segar, c er tifi e d to b e the growtkof asisia, Java, or Manilla, or of any other i s aign "country, the sugar of which her Majesty in 6'ouncil shall have -declared to be admissible- tas not beings thaprOduce of slave labour the Ovite 14 14so tot gygther.'iVit h-44 41 , 141=4 duty,qt•-g•perowitum on the afavoioniloneil rate, . That, from and after th'e 10th day of November next, liar Majesty be authorised, by Order ~.;^ cOuncil,la i gire effect to the provisions of any treaty Row in force; Which binds - her Majesty to - admit - sugar, the produce of a foreign country, at the same duties as are imposed on sugar the produce of the most favou re d nation, Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved, as an amendment to the proposition of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, a reduction to thirty-four shillings of the duty on all sugar from foreign countries. He (Lord J. Russell) said the Right Hon. Gentleman in proposing these resolu tions had referred to former contests. He said that this was an old battle-field, and he expressed his surprise that he (Lord J. Russell) should be anxious to appear twain on a field where he had been already defeated. ?ow, he thought the Right Hon. Gentleman had •him self sounded a retreat to the forces which he commanded. —(Hear, hear.) He appeared prepared to give up half the ground for which he had been contending ; and he (Lord John Russell) came forward with greater confidence than on former occasions, because he found that the Right' Honourable Gentleman had abandoned those weapons . which he - for merly wielded - with very great effect; that • he had deserted those Who had looked to him for protection, and they might now expect this question to be decided on the real ground of the facts and arguments .which applied to the case.—(Cheers.) He had never known the Right Hon. Gentleman appear to lack argument so much as on that occasion. He had stated at the com mencement of his speet , h, that there was not at present a sufficient supply, and that the price of sugar was his reason for introducing this change. Why, in . the battle which was formerly waged. arguments quite' as urgent were stated in favour of a change, and were successfully repelled. The Right Honourable Gentleman said that the 'price of ' sugar was so very high.--r(Laughter.) From the last Gazette it appeared that the price of sugar the hundred weight, in the British possessions in America, was 39a. 91d. ; the average price of the three descriptions of sugar in the last year was 375. 3d.. The average price of sugar in 1841 was 38s. 3,d. The price in 1840 was na less than 48s The Right Hon., Gentle man now came forward, and said that the price of 475., being os. More than the price of last year, was a conclu sive argument in'faveur of the proposed alteration. He recollected, with regard to the amount of- sugar which was avail able at a former • period, that the Noble Lord; the 'Member • for Liverpool, stated that here were about 240.000 tons available for consumption in this country, whilst the Hon. Member for Beverley stated, that the amount was 260;000. What was the statement made at a meeting of- West India proprietors ? That the supply of 1844 from the West Indies, was 128,000 tons, from the East Indies, 70,000, and from the Mauritius, 32,000, making 230,000 tons, with a reserve of 40,000 at the be ginning of the year. If these facts which be had mentioned were sufficient to induce those who now formed the Government to reject the proposition of the late Government, was not the supply of 240,000 tons suffi cient to prevent the necessity for the proposed alteration? There were reasons to which he had before referred, as to the necessity of securing a better general supply of sugar, which he thought were su ffi cient to induce the Committee to reconsider their determination at that time, and to propose such an additional supply. But if that was to be done, and if it was to be done with the consent of the Government, again he said let them make their measure a straightforward one—(Hear, hoar) — let them make it a measure that should be according to the laws and principles that governed trade and com merce. If they thought fit to give a certain protection to their colonial possessions in consequence of the great change they had made with regard- to their labour, let that be done, and let them make that a ground of dis tinction between their colonies and other countries. But let them not adopt a new principle in commerce, one which would make a confusion from which they would -find it difficult to escape—one contradicting all the known maxims on which the progress of this country in trade had hitherto been based. The Right Hon. Gen tleman said that this proposition was not a new one, because it had before been proposed by the Hon. Gentleman behind him, and had been discussed in the House. Why, he might as well say, if he was bringing in a Bill for establishing universal suffrage, that it was not new, because it had been already pro posed and vindicated by the Hon. Member for Hoch dale.—(Hear, hear.) But in point of fact it was a new principle • be contended that placing th e i r tariff on grounds Of morality, erecting a pulpit in their Custom house, and converting the whole of their landing waiters into preachers of anti-slavery doctrines, was altogether a new principle in commerce.—(Cheers.) He objected, in the first place, entirely to the principle itself ; he thought it could end in nothing but mischief; he thought it would be impossible to act consistently upon it. With respect to this very question they took commodities from various countries indifferent states of civilisation, some of which . were governed by barbarous chiefs, who exer cised a despotic power of life and death over their sub jects. There were others, consisting of millions of people in the low condition of serfs, among whom the most hor rible cruelties were practised—yet they did not ask, when the goods arrived at the Custom-house, what was the social condition of these people, or what the practices of the senates and rulers who governed them. They took them as a matter of trade, and sold thorn their goods in return. There were other ways in which they might attend to the social happiness of the world, but with respect to commerce he believed the best thing they could do for the increase of Christian morality was to allow commerce to take its own way, and trust to the civilising influence which all commerce must have, rather than interfere violently by fiscal re gulations with its accustomed course. In the first place, they would offend all those natives against whom they declared, by these resolutions. The empire of Brazil and the kingdom- of Spain would naturally be offended, and they would no doubt be induced to indulge in re taliating tariffs, in order to meet these resolutions.— (Hear, hear.) That in itself was a reason for their not attempting the legislatien which they now proposed. How could they know the exact state of the countries for which they new proposed to legislate ? They were about to legislate for Java. Now, he had understood from accounts which he had read of the state of society in Java, that in that country the sugar cultivation was a compulsory cultivation. The 'cultivators were com pelled to produce a certain quantity of sugar, and to dispose of it at a certain price. The Right Hon. Gen tleman might, perhaps, contradict him, and might be better informed on the state of legislation in Java than he was. But was not the fact of their ignorance as to the state of affairs in Java reason sufficient for their ab staining'from legislation?—(Cheers.) They were in an equal state of ignorance with regard to affairs in Ma nilla. Then, with regard to Puerto Rico, he had raison to believe that, with the exception of a small part of that island, slavery was not the pre vailing practice. Yet sugar, the produce of Puerto Rico, was to be refused, while sugar, the produce of Java, was to be received. Our Custom.house officers said," We are so satisfied . with the state of society in Java, that we will admit the produce of that island, but we are so' shocked at the existence of slavery in Puerto Rico, that we will • refuse to trade with that country." Now what was the state of our trade with those slave labour countries ? Cuba and Brazil were induced to grow sugar by slave labour in greater quantities than was sufficient to provide for their own wants. Why did they grow this sugar ? In order to provide for them selves various articles of manufacture' of which they stood in need. From whence did they procure these manufactures ?- Why, from Lancashire and Yorkshire ; therefore they were holding out an inducement to the people of •Cuba and Brazil to continue slavery, by fur nishing them with the manufactures of Lancashire and Yorkshire.—(Cheers.) They'sent them these manufac tures, and they were paid fbr them in sugar bi but they would not consume that sugar in this country—they said it was a crime. How, then, did they dispose of it ? Why it so happened that they took tallow and hemp from Russia, which could not be paid for in English manufactures, because Russia was not prepared to take them; therefore they sent this sugar, the produce of slave labour, to Russia, and took the hemp andtallow of Russia in return for these slave-grown . productions. The Right Hon. Gentleman protested against directly importing sugar from Cuba, yet Russia freely imported such commodity, and we as freely imported Russian tallow and hemp, and gave Russia those manufactures in return which we would otherwise send directly to Cuba. The Right Hon. Gentleman talked about our consciences being free. Upon my word (said the Noble Lord) the Right Hon. Gentleman, finding it very easy to reconcile theie things to his conscience, he had not any objection at all to slave-grown sugar being carried into Russia; nay, he was ready to assi s t such tra ffi c, and give Ruasia our manufactures, but the importation directly of slave-grown sugar shocked him. This seemed a very thin veil indeed.—(Hear, hear.) He very much doubted whether, if the Right Hon. Baronet, instead of being a stout Protestant, had been a Roman Catholic, 'that his confessor would think these pretexts a sufficient excuse In 1840 we sent to Cuba 863,520 L worth of ourproduce in manufactures ;_in 1831, 835,0001. worth ;in 1842, 9 5 8,000 L worth. And this in addition to what was sent by other channels. To Brazil we sent, ' in 1840, 2,635,00 N. worth ; in 1841, 2,560,5,54 L worth ; in 1842, only 1,650,0004 worth of our manufactures. All the returns proved that all the time the Right Hon. Gentle man was declaiming so earnestly against slavery, we encouraging the slave trade. But then the R ight Hon. Gentleman retreated to another argument —an argument which had been formerly used in this House, weuse, did an not ourselves dwhichbea consumettempted sugar, invalidate, ugayetwhen w tha e t admitted 90,000 tons, the produce it was supposed of these three favoured countries, that that 90,000 tons being substratted from the consumption of Europe, will be replaced by other produce—the produce of slavery; and that we were thereby, indirectly, to thatextent encourag ing slavery. The Right Hon. Gentleman said nothing in the least had - diminished the force of that argument. He said the sugar of Cuba was very good, and ad mi t te d e Si v a e mthose 90,000 encouragement that slave-labour in this colony was very expensive. •We took from Jav , :, ,e M ce a rt ni a l i l n a l , y a d n d d to sla e v ot e ttet l ro ab np o ou u tt r t . , of - — 0 dr ( we H pa a e r dr a r t tons ; ,and, so far, 'and protection p w ri as uc t i ll p e le? o se it i r t a w det b n allegations, which certainly appeared to 'savour very 9thfhroralse hear.) l i f e u s sta o al f much of hypocrisy, It was better to admit foreign' sugar on the game scale of differential 'duties as W 4 . ;Omitted free-labour sugar. He would sup pose, for the sake of argument, that some great benefit would be pr o d uce d—th a t great good would be done to the world by this distinction : that might be a • reason for uutking it. But when we saw no practical coasaquenced follow from this line of policy—when, the ,distinction proved to be merelyin words, he really could not see why the Government of this great commercial country should persevere in a policy so unwise. ' The Right Hon, Gentleman proceeded to speak of America and ether countries; but he thought the Right Hon. Gentleman's statements in this respect not quite accu rate.• America admitted the sugar of Cuba and the United States. What' guarantee was there that America did• - not send the sugar' of Brazil and Cuba into this country instead of their own. The Right Holt. Gentle , man seemed to depend a good deal on what WAS termed -- certificates Of origin —he really did not think that much dependence could be placed on those certificates. He did not think they would be any better - guarantee against the sugar of Cuba or Brazil than they were at the time of the war between this • country and prance, when it was a notorious fact that we smuggled our goods into foreign countries, and they theirs into ours, by means of forged certificates. Those' best acquainted with the sugar trade did not seem to have the same confidence in these certificates as the Right Ron. Baronet —those gentlemen seemed to have"" very. little less apprehension in 1844 than in 1841, when". theAifferential duty of twelve, instead of ten shillings, was proposed by the Government of that day. The great objection to any change of duty then was, that the great experiment of the abolition of slavery had not bad ' a fair trial—that it was necessary to ascertain whether • free labour could supply the place of slave labour. Had so much progress been made in the experiment of free trade labour in 1844, that they were not afraid of a change? The same differential duty thought sufficient for Java, Manilla, and the United States, should be ap plied to Cuba and the Brazils. He thought that a pro._ hibitory duty of 635., as it ought to have been abolished in 1841, ought to be abolished now ; and he would give his reasons. The supply of sugar from 1831 had not been such, he believed, as to enable the people of this country to consume it to anything like the extent they would under other circumstances have done. In 1831, 1832, and 1833, there was an average cc:insuli:l - of from 191bs. to 201b9. of sugar per held en the ' whole population, whilst in subsequent years the ave rage had become so low as 171b5., and even 161bs. per" head. This reason alone seemed very powerful in favour of a reduction of the duties. In 1843 there was little' more than 171bs. of sugar per head consumed, whilst in 1831, with a smaller population, there were 191b5.-- (Hear, hear.) The consumption of tea had wonder fully increased since the commencement of the present century, but sugar had not increased in proportion. Considering the increase of population, the consumption of spirits, and beer had rather diminished among the great consuming classes, whilst in tea and coffee the in crease had been very great. The consumption of e•offee in 1801 was 7,851,0001b5. ; in 1841, 2 7,298,3 4 21 ha. The consumption of tea in 1801 was 20 ,227,0001b.5.; in 1841, 36,675,0001b5. In sugar, the consumption, in 1831, was 3,639,0001b5. ; in 1841, 4,657,0001ba. There was three times the amount of coffee consumed in 1841, as oatn. pared with 1831, whilst the increase in the consumption of sugar had been so trifling. The increase in the pqou, lotion during this p er i o d h a d b een from 8 to 14. The experiment. of Indian labour in the Mauritius had been tried, and had been found sucoosafhl ; and there had not bi>en the same objection to the introduction of such labour asformerly. Lord Auckland, who was formerly op posed to it, thought now that, underproper restrictions, it might be successful. Tho Noble Lord (the Secretary 1,4. the Colonies) had made some relaxations concerning African labour, and ho did not think they could go much farther in that respect. A reduction of the sugar duties, ought to be made ; but it should be effeeted on the ordi nary principles by which trade was generally governed, and they should no t, merely for the sake of bolstering up -established o i e s tu l h 7:l prr the consistency of some of the members of the Cabinet, ) it d t o nhr n e yo p l e y sa a_ e : iotfunfurrootoohumufir placing t , oh ho w e u n 1 r t. colonial in g ere l n i a c a y ts o o beo f mh c m o in m edr m ohi e ui r ml c o l u n eure o! altdustuiegas sugar h s u urt h r e o ( n r, level o a rd R w u i s. sell) would not go quite so far. in a new state of things where no duty had been imposed, it might be safe to do so ; b ut , under existing circumn ees, he thought a diff erent i al duty should mad e n favour of our own celeriles. After some explanation as to the cause why he had not given earlier notice of the motion, he was about to make, the Noble Lord laid the following - proposition before the House :—" That, instead of the duty now payable on brown sad Muscavado sugar, the produce of any foreign country be admitted at a duty of thirty-four shillings per cwt.' He believed the Right Hon. Gentleman sufficiently possessed the confidence of the House to enable him to carry almost any proposition ; but,'_nevertheless, he should feel it his duty to take the sense Of the House upon his proposal. Free competition should be the rule. Unrestricted competition in trade, Lord Grenville stated, was the straight and simple line of wisdom, The Right Hon. Baronet had himself admitted the truth of this doctrine, and when ever we altered our policy, whether we advanced in a short or a wide step, it should be in this direction. If they wanted duties for revenue, why then they should impose them; but as for legislating where to buy and to se , the public themselves were the best judges of that. He thought that if they were to prescribe in what markets the people should trade, it would inevitably cramp the industry and impair the wealth of the terna ry. That remark was not needless; for there had at this time been issued papers offering premiums from persons usually supporting the Government, for the best essays on protection for the agricultural interest.—(The Noble Lord then read an extract from a speech delivered on the 17th of February, 1783, by Lord Shelburne, who was at that time a Minister of the Crowe. That Noble Lord reprobated monopoly as being always injurious-- as preventing rivalry, which was the greatest stimulus to trade, and the most important instrument of human improvement. No nation was more bound to oppose monopoly than this country, which stood as it were be tween the old world and the new, and which having more capital, more trade, and more resources, than any other nation on earth, should meet its rivals on any part of the globe, content with fair competition, and asking nothing more.) Such was t h e op i n i on o f a M inister of the Crown sixty years ago—(Cheers) r -- and we had not advanced much since. —(Renewed cheers.) They were creating a new monopoly o f a stronger kind, in whi c h they declared to various nations of the world, that they would not trade with thews because they disapproved of their institutions. It was bat a short time since that the proposition of free trade was negatived by but a few votes in America. If this coun try were to set the example to other nations it would soon be followed.—(Hear, hear.) But whilst we sus tained the system of protective and prohibitory duties whilst they excluded the corn and the timber and other products of those nations, how could we lecture them upon the advantages of an enlightened commercial policy ?—(llear, hear.) He (Lord J. Russell) had lately read a letter from the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to the Minister of a German State, which con veyed a lecture upon free trade which could have very little weight coming from the authority which main tained destructive duties here.—(clear, hear.) Let us adopt true principles for ourselves; and when other nations should see that England had taken a wise course and had benefited by it, they would not be slow to follow the example. If so, we should see men in authority in. stead of devising schemes for applying schemes to render war more destructive, employing their talents to direct steam, so as to make peace more beneficial, and uniting in one brotherhood all the nations of the world. Mr. GLADSTONE would not imitate the Noble Lord, and wander into topics unconnected with the sub ject before the Committee. He would -not go into the questions of iron, and wood, and corn. He thought that it was plain that the Noble Lord was induced to intro duce those subjects by the poverty , of his objections to the measure of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Noble Lord would find that the letter of the Foreign Secretary to the Prussian Ministry was founded upon the arguments contained in an article in the Edinburgh Review, which was supposed to have the approbation of the Noble Lord himself. It would be, indeed, a matter of grave censure upon the Government it they adhered in 1844 to the measures which they thought, under very different circumstances, necessary in 1841. In the latter year the West Indies were going through an experi ment, which rendered it imperative that the Govern merit should take no step to embarras those colonies.. But now five years had passed since the experiment was began, and although the difficulties of the colonies were not altogether passed over, yet it had been now evident that the permanent maintenance of the sugar duties on the present principle was not necessary to their support. The Right Hon. Gentleman then went into a detail of the different values of sugars (Muscovado. clayed and refined) in the West India Islands, in Cuba. and in Java, contending that if the duty on all unrefined sugars was to be 345. per cent. an advantage a would ur u u ldb e t. given to Cuba, whi c h p ro d uce d an d exported fined sugars superior to r ea l M uscova do. - TheNoble Lord had no right to taunt the Government with want of consistency, for he had himself, in the period between 1840 and 1841, changed his own opinions on this ques tion. The price of sugar had in last year considerably risen, and that rise was a good reason for an alteration of the law. The rise had been nearly 3 s. per cwt., and w would be altered this year. veiling opinion that the la w would the • • increasingwould have been greater if it had not been for the pre- Taking, therefore, into cons id era tio n de sire of the country to consume those articles which hold a place between luxuries and necessaries, he thought the Government would have been wrong if they had not taken advantage of the increase of price to alter the law. The Noble Lord protested against the introduction of a new mode of prohibitory and distinctive duties. But in 1841, the Noble Lord, in the case of the duties upon sugar, said that it was necessary to make a distinction between those States which encouraged the slave trade and those which had nothing to do with slavery. But the Noble Lord was pleased to be witty on another point, and said, his Right Hon. Friend was introduc ing religion into the custom-house, erecting pulpits in the lon g - room, and making the land-waiters preachers of anti-slavery doctrines. Perhaps this Noble Lord would say, that they should not introduce religion into the ships of war, and erect pulpits upon quarter-decks, or make their captains preachers ; but ill truth the Noble Lord had made our captains of men-of war preachers of anti-slavery doctrines, and preachers test a pretty effect to the slavers in their passage between Africa and Br'azil. The policy of the present Govern§ meat was in consonance with that steadily pursued in this country for a very long time past. It was impossi ble to apply fixed rul es t o th e var yi ng charac te r of human affairs. The Noble Lord began by allud ing to the state of Java, and objected that there could be no security that the produce of that island would not_be . 1 Java reduced by slave labour. But he (Mr. Gladstone) n be lieved that there was a state of society whichwith would enable him to ascertain or not, ease whether the produce was slave-groa n the roduc was free that rent was paid in proportion toproduc e s and of a certain number of days lie believed that this was made out that ba t ; in Java and it was paid at the rate _ _ the occupation or of statute labour. So far as regarded b h e compelled to hold lands againstbut 'if Java was this, that no mats held lan d, wasit hew state as his w bo of u t n h d in t gs ocultivate it. Such was nnivere sally the state of things in Java, and if a party cultivated theland he was free to quit it when ho pleased. lie 'believed, however, that it was the duty of those who held land under the Government to have a certain hum-- ber of females on the land • he ought, h owever , to say. perhaps, that there wa s a domestic species of slavery VIP. Java, but that slavery was now upon the point of deeo. l . .;--.(Hear, hear.) So far as regarded this count tlf , be could not see the di ffi culties the Noble Lord had; ded. Siam had been adverted to ; the trade bettsvee'n that country and this was carried on not with m*ReVants, but with the Monarch himself, and they had 0 0" refore but