The Sun. — London, England, 1803-07-26 00:00:00

I `; of 'the bay for the Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the O rdar o House to gu into a Committee of the whole House on the India Shipping Bill. Mr, JOH :'STONE rose, and repeated . his argu ments against the me a sur e p ro p ose d by t h e N o bl e Lend ; he strongly urged , the impropriety of granting the request of the Noble Lord, When Persons lead done the ship business of the had utteredlndiae t: • pally for rBl. iss. per ton, and many persons do it at 141. p e r t o n, h e th ere f ore saw n b reaLgrounds . for the • present application to the House. Lord C.4STLEREeiGH rose and answered the points of objetlion taken by the Hon. Gentleman of j°"NN and then went over hi s former groun d s o f detail on t naturec,of the agreement made between the East I n di a Company and the Ship-owneis A ft er h c l ear an d a bl e s tatement on the subject, his Lordship c onc l u d e d w i th exp re s si n g a satisfac. ,tion that the grounds of his application would be considered, by the House as perfectly fair. Sir Wm. P u LTINEY expressed, his disapprobation of the pleasure proposed by the Noble Lord. • Lord CASTLEREAGH explained. Mr. MOOR E gave his support to the Bill, and ohseived that the.ships now in the Company's service were . far supe 'rior to what they h a d b een , anc l were no t only useful to the East India Company, but serviceable to the State. After a few observations front kir. Coy it r CNA v as to the into' sum paid p e r ton to the Ship- owners , t he H ouse went a Committee on the Bill, and the Report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow morning, General TA ft rroN expressed a wish that the Lo a of the ExenEQUaa would postpone the tnrthe.vonsi deration of the Report of the B o ndi ng an d WarehouStng which stands for riday, to the Monday following. • TIICCHANCELLGR of the ERGUSQUERt instantly complied with the request made by. the Hon. Gentleman, arukths fur. ther consideration of the Report was ordered for Monday, 11CXt, Mr, CORRY observed, iliat from having considered the nature or the-Bill jnst Mentioned, and the srate,or the Trade in Ireland, he , d'ul not mean at present to introduce a Bill with iespeet to the Bonding and Warehousing' or Goods ported into that Country ; , his reason was, that there were several statutes whi c h regu l ate t h e B ond i ng of Wine, .tnd all those articles mentioned in the Lond o n Bonding that are imp orte d into Ireland, besides, ninny other articles weie under the regulati , n of the Bill, a Bill which is at present found to answer' every purpose that can be wished for. If he was.to introdu ce a liill or the nature of the one now in the 11" use, •he must make some change in tite.present s y s t em before h e you'd carry the measure proposed by the -London Bill into. execution, tie should ,theroicire postpone it for the.preeeut Session ; but if it's! ould be -found.tieces:- . nary to have a of this nature, he should take an early opportunity. next Session to, oar t.imilu r measure to th e one now-be fore the House. Lord Hawx ssatt Rl , moved the Order - of the Day for the House to go into a Committee of Supply, Lord G. L. GOWER wished to'know4hether the Grant about to be .proposed for the service of the PRINCE of OkANGE and Family, by the Noble . Lord, was front any Provision in the 'Treaty of Amiens, or froth the affeaion His Wjesty has for that Prince. It this grant is to be considered an adequate indemnification to the Pririce of Orange, he could not but observe that he thought Ministers •had been negligent in nut bringing it before the House m uc h earl i er. Lot d HAWKES BURY observed, that he thought the Noble Lord had been' prematutti in' his remarks, as he moved, for the Committee without bay lu g 'mention e d any particular suhjea for consideratioo. The House then went into a Committee of Sup. Lord II AWKESBIJRY then cailed.the attention of the Committee to His Majesty's last Message; be observed, that though he felt As strongly as any Gentleman in the House, that this was not the most propitious moment for an application of the nature he was about to propose, yet he believed the House would consider his proposition founded in' hon Our and justice; It was scarcely. necessary for burn to slate to Parliament the obligations we have beeit: under to the Prince of Orange ; he need not describe . ~theitature of our alliance with the House of Orange, .rhat toinit be too well known ; and he thought must ever have been considered as k co n nection highly . . valuable to the Couotry,. He mod not but think that —a Family who had been serviceable to this Country for Centuries, ought to be considered as dear as the Constitution, and therefote have higher claims on this Government than any other foreign comiedion ; he was Sure the House, in such a case as the present, would not narrow or limit the in. dulgence the Prince of Orange and Family were in. titled to, and he did not doubt but they would be the subjeas of 'our liberality. The loss - sustained by the Prince of Orange was difficult to flit at any particular sum, so as to grant an exaei indemnity for it ; yet His Majesty's Ministers felt the pro. pricty of the claim. The reason that the subjea bad not !teen brought before Parliament prior to the present veriod was, that Government wished to see what might be done in favour of the Prince of Orange by the BataVian Government, but as all our endeavours failed to render the Prince any service in that way, they now wish. to - .rest their claim on the indulgence and liberality 'of the House. There had been a proposition from the Batavians to this Government to this effect, that if we would sur render the Ships once belonging to .the Prince of . Orange, he would be included in the Indemnities but this was a proposition we did not, nor:could not agree to. Upon this ground, conneeted with other circumstances, he was sure the House would see the propriety of- giving some protection to the Prince and Family. He should therefore propose tri vote the tium of Sixty Thousand Pounds for their . Use and serv i ce, and also an annu i ty, o f S i xteen Thousand a year, leaving it to'His Majesty's dis. cretio u to discontinue it whenever he ,may think Waller- His 'Lordship observed, that this annuity IV " in tended to cover the expences attending the support of subordinate individuals upder them, and should attached to th e F am il y . H e also observed, that he only propo s e t o .da y t h e S ixty Thousand Pounds, and topmorrow the Annuity. Mr. CANNING allowed there was no one more • untitled to the indulgence of the House than th e l'amily recommended by the Noble Lord ; yet De thought it his duty to observe, that Ministers ought to have laid before the House everycirCUMSta rice con neaed with the - Treaty of Amiens, in order tO fairly - 'judge of the proposition, which has been made by the Noble Lord. By the Diplomatic agreemeot be. tween the Batavian 'Government and France, the Prince of Orange was included in the list of indemni. ties, but as Holland had negleaed to attend to the letter of the Treaty, it would have been but politi cal to have enforced the Indemnity for the service of the Prince of Orange. He thought the pledge we had from the Batavian Government was sufficient - for us to say to them, " Vrou have negledted.to give an Indemnity to the - Houie of Orange, which yap were bound to have done by the Treaty; and if 4 You do not give a proteetion to the Prince of Orange, vie, will retain the Property now in M3E,possession.'.' The. Ministers must feel that it would have been .a more decorous way, to have given an Indemnity to the Prince of Orange by retaining the Cape of `Good hope till the Batavians had thought proper to bomply with the. Treaty : this might have been done before Christmas lair, without the least eliffi. culty : but this opportunity was gone, and - he thought. there was no means at this period to sup. - port the present request. Lord HAWKESBURY explained, and observed among many other things, that on the question of 'German Indemnities after the signature of the Treaty of Amiens, as a compensation fOr losses, the Princeof Orange had'renounced claims in a manner that facilitated the conclusion of that matter, and had done so in a manner which gave him a strong claim upon the Generosity, if not the Justice of this Country, and that his original claim for indem nity was• perfettly eqtritable,•if not rigidly just. Mr. CANNING •explained also, and thought that if the ClaiMs of the Prince of Orange were, as he had no doubt they were, 'just at the time the Indemnities were discussed, a great and a powerful Nation such as ours, ought to have interfered to 'inforce his Claim, and if that interference had not been sufficient to obtain Justice, our Government ought to .have laid the matter before Parliament, for One of the great advantages which a small 1 State • obtained by' alliance with a great and powerful one, Was, that the small should always have justice from any other, althOugh a more,pOwer. fu! Stikte; but instead of this he contended that the PrinCe. of Orange had not justice done to his Claim •for Indemnity, a point lA hich was to have been set ' tied between France and Holland, but which had been shifted from one of them to the Other; and now an Indemnification was to come to him from this Country. He did not say the sum now proposed was more than a rei,nunerati.m- to the Prince of. Orange, but he Owned- he thought tliia .ought to . have,been, settled when the question of Indemnities was discOssed, .and that 'our Go vernment ought to, have seen that settlement made, and stood pledged to do.in, for that he did not know the use' of a Guarantee of a powerful State, that the. rights of ,a weak one should, he Preserved, unless is took 'care chat anotherpoWerful State . should nut tike away by force that which justly belonged to. the weaker. He did not think that the abandon ing the rights of a small Stair in the.discussionof them with another powerful State, and afterwards giving a'remuneration for its loss, instead of insist o.g on its original rights in the discusSiOn, was per.. forming the part of a magnanimous Ally. However these objettions did not go to the present vote, they .applied only . retrespettively to the conduCt of His M.ijesty's Ministers. Sir FRANCIS BURDETT said, that a pro. pocitiun more extraordinary than this, under all the circumstances, never was submitted to Parliament, and it was indeed advanced w i t h a degree of awk wardness, if he might so express himself, which he never before observed in any thing brought for ward fly the Noble LOrd. the Noble L o rd shoo He did not. wonder that Id so feel himself, when he called on the Peopl e o f E ng.an— for , such a purpose as this. He had rested the present claim -on the ,generosity 'rather titan the' justice of This Country. Generosity was an excellent qiialitys, and it was conspicuous, in the People of this Country—it was a part of our national charaCter; but then he.did not apprehend it was to supersede considerations Of, prudence, With respett to the claim of the Prince of Orange, it wits a elaitif not on us, but on the Republic of Holland. If the-Prince did not chuse to be matlea tool of to cheat the people of. Holland, he must • have had a claim on them rather than any claim on us ; ht,t undoubtcdly,' if the Prince of— Orange did submit the interests . of that 'country to be sacrificed to the wishes of the ou M• • sters of Eng. land in the last War, they, ought to be hostile to any idea of indemnity or compensation to him. So char if the Prince of Orange had done hi. duty, he ought to have an indemnity from Holland, and Ice had no claim on 129 . ; it' he had not done his duty he coultrhave ,no claim on that Country, and it was diffiCult . to see hoW he had any claim on this ; at all evepts we ought to have extremely go::et rea sons, in the present time and under all the circutn stances ,by which we are surrounded, for granting this money, before we granttd it. He thought that this was a very unseasonable application, when we were calling•on this Country to defend itself, fly the most extraordinary means, and he had no doubt it would. be 'very properly defends d ; but at such time to bring forward a pretended Claim of the Prince of Orange on the generosity of this Cou ntr y, was a course of proceeding which he thought ex trCtnely. injudicious; the Noble .Lied, he maintain ed', had advanced no reason whatever . for this pro.: posed meastire—even if it were reasonable in itself, he should 'think that at the pesent moment it would be untimely ; for considering all the claims now made upon the, People* of England, this application tO . Parliament excited his .astonishment. lie alluded to the claim of his Royal . Highness the Prince of Wales, which, he said, was afterwards. withdrawn on account of the emergency of the times ; and that, he thoUght, would have been a good rea-, son for doing the same with this, even if it had beers well founded, which he was far frOm ing. He knew not where these applications were to end. We might be called on by-and-by to in demnify the Eletior,of,HanOver, He, must oppose . this. There was no case made out, either on the justice or. the., generosity of this Country. He -assigned as another reason for dissenting from this proposition, the present state of the Pension List of this Country, some part of which, he said, dis. gusted him, because it contained names of persons whose claims upon' this Country he did not admit., `He said, that whenever any person of real meth was to he rewarded, Government came to Parlia ment for that reward, and it was granted without a murmur, and, afterwards, pensions were, granted to per Sons whose cases would not bear-investigation. He thought the Members of this House would not be justified in burthening . their Constituents upon this occasion by this vote, when manufaelures, corn. merce,_atid agriculture must be so severely checked as they .:are about to be. He ohaeived, that the Noble Lord did not Very well know which to give to the Prince of Orange, a sum a money or an annuity, and therefore he proposed to giye him both. 'lie concluded' with observing, that instil he was convinced of the absolute necessity of it, he would not grant a:sixpence Of the money of di: People of this Country at the present moment. T , 4. CHANCELLOR of tbi EXCHEQUER , . , ite rose to nt express s asto ntothent that the claim of the House of Orange on this Country should be doubted by any Englishman in Parliament; Tin' Howie of Orange was an illustrious but unfortunate .family, which, by the injustice and military via lence of France had.been deprived of much of its -just rights, and such a family should At this time be the °Nett of, compassion to every Honour able Member of that House, when it was remem. tiered tnat . it was to that illustrious family was owing the liberty which we now enjoyed. -He should have thought that conneeted as we were, and sensible of the benefits we had received from that illiVrious House, not one individual would have objeeled to the proposition now before the Committee. He reminded the Committee of what we owed to Wil- liam 111. by whose exertions, instead of chains and bondage, we possessed freedom, independence, and all the blessi igs which attend Liberty. He observ, ed also on the sacrifices which the present Prince of Orange had made on this occasion, 'and he said he could not have supposed that any individual in that House should have objeded tonic remuneration now proposed to His Serene Highness of 60,0001, in money, and 16,0001. a.year. He thought that this claim was a proper claim upon the. HuMaOity and the' Liberality of Parliament, if not upon its Justice'. These were; the • general considerations which operated on his 'mind, and induced him io assent to the proOosition no..v blade,' and which he had • been led to express in consequence of what was said by the Hon. Baronet, who had complained there was no argument offered in support of the Measure. N,,tv . it was. observable that as to the ships taken at the Helder, an arrangement was to have been made which 'would haVe, been bervficial to the Prince 'of Orange provided this Country would agree to surreoter the Ships taken there ; it became impossible consicently with the true ir. wrests- of this -Country, that we should agree to that proposition. These ships were taken in the n,orle of the Prince of Orange, and this after. wards stood in the way, of the indernnity which. Would otherwi,e have been made to His Serene Highness, in the arrangements which took }'lace under the head of the German Indemnities, after the conclusion of the Treaty of Amiens. The va lue of these ships was 200,0001. Thee ships, so taken, were distindly stated . Tto be the impediment' to the indemnity that was to have been made to the Prince of Orange. Surely,then, if the claim ofthat illustrious Prince could not be said to be a claim, on the justice, it certainly was a claim, on the libe. • rality of this Country, and let it note said there was no argument in support of . this proposition— under these circumstances, he could 'not help hoping the Committee would feel the perfed propriety of this measure now proposed by his Noble Friend. Alr. N. SMITH thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman had advanced a powelful reason in every view in which this case came before the Commit tee for assenting to this measure, namely; that the illustrioos Housn' of Orange was in a state to call for the coMpassion of this • He was one of those who would be the last to refuse concurrence to a generous 'Measure on such groundS, for no one had greater 'veneration for that illustriotk, nor higher sense of what this country owed to that f thati himself, but when this was considered as a claim'of justice, or if not of justice, of equity or compassion, rh re , was a ,cOnluition, - or to speak muse properly a mixture of ideas. ---'ln support i t a s a claim of 'justice, was alm:ist ithpossible, „„ i t t o say it was a claim on our liberality, he t h oug ht'. too 'much, upon any thing that had been advanced either by the Noble Lord who brought it forward, or by the Right Hon. Gentleman who sup. o ur i e d it—How far equity and justice might be sepirated was a subj-et too nice perhaps fur sudden disquisitioo, it 'was not his - inclination, nor did he caV it was within his ability to decide. But'his oh, i,eti o n was more easy than any such discussion w „,oole—Wie,were now in the zsth of July, a period which Parliament, whatever it may be “hiiged to do hereafter, had not been yet accustom. ed to sit, and with such attendance as he now saw, h e did not think'that the measure should be now discussed.--Nut that he regarded this vote as of any great consequence to the Country in its amount, fur &now!. and 16,000l.a.year could not be tiri but what he was most' afraid of Was the precedent of entering into votes without good reasons for them. —He therefore thought it should not be discussed now but deferred until the next meeting . of ment; which would infallibly take place in Novem ber. .tord 114WKESBURY observed, that with re. gard to this measure being discussed at a late sea. son, he apprehended the objection would not be con. sidered 'of mtich force, while it was not considered too late to discuss the Defence and the Property BillSl and as to the eifea of delay,' he was assured, that the granting of this sum at this titrte to the. Prince of Orange; would be considered of inure va. lue by his Serene Highness,.than a much larger sum at , a future Period.. Mr. W.-SMITH said a few words in exphnation. After which the Resolution was put, ‘ 1 That it is the opinion Of this Committee, that . His Majesty be en abled' to grant. to His Serene Highness a sum not exceeding 60,0001. and also an yearly sum non ex cecding 16,00Ol." Mr. W..Smrsti proposed', that, thii Resolution should be postponed until this day three months, .which was negatived. The Question on the Original Resolution. was then put and carried. The CHANCHILOR of the EXCHEQUER then pro. posed, that a sum not exceeding Two Millions be granted as a Vote of Credit. Mr. jokrisviciws did not rise to oppose the Mu. don,. but adverted to ti former statement of the Criatiost.Loit of the EX6HEQUEIi v . that, the ex. pences of the War would not exceed 26 minions annually. Mr. JoHrtsportS entered .into ri , ,vatiety of calculations, to spew that the expenCis, of the War would be much higher, and that the Liao for the next year would be 25 millions instead of 6 millions, as the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had predided. The CHANCELLOR of the' EXCHEQUER denied that he had positively asserted that the ex. pence of the War next year would not exceed 26 millions. It was impossible to state with precision what the txpences of the War would be, because-it *iitild be impossible to forsee what t►ere the exer. tions that it might be necessary fur the Country to wake. M. JOHNSTONE explained; ants. which the tion wa , ygreed to. tits — use resolved itself into a Committee. of Ways and Means. `The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose . to propose three Resolutions to. the Committee ; the first relating to the growing produce Of: the Consolidated Fund ;, the next was for one Milion anti A half in Exchequer Bills, to make good the like sum advanced by the Bank valid the next was for two millions of Exchequer Bills to make good the sum voted in the Committee of Supply. The Comtnittec would rtreolka, that bef ,re Christmas a sum of three millions was voted to make good a sum advanced by t;:e Bank in 1798. Of that; sum had been paid, and the Bank had . ndw consented to take Exchequer Bills for the remainder, The two millions in Exchequer Bills which he not proposed to vote was merely to inako good the sum which had been voted in the Committee Of Supply.. With . regard to the, growing produce, it would' be recollected that at the close of the last Session of Parliament, ,the growing produce of the COnioli dated Fund was taken at four millions and si half fur the emuing year; but on.the sth January last the produce was 4 , 900 , 000 1.' whi c h w as 4.00,000 l m'ore in three quarters of a year than was estitnated for die whole yea r , He then proceeded to enter into' a walieiy - of calculations' with regard to the probable amount - of the , COnsolidated Fund for the ensuing quarters, after which he proceeded to move his solutions,_ which,. after a few words frpm Mr. joiiNsToNs, were Agreed and the Report was ordered to be brought up to-morrow. The House cent into a Committee on the Curates Bill. In the Clause, empowering the'Bishop to allow to the Curate any sum not.: exceeding one-fourth of the amount of the Benefice, for serving the Cure, the words one-foUrth" were left our, and the words "one-thitd" were insertej. The Bill then went through the Committee, and the Report was order. (Li' to bereceived to-morrow. The CHANCELLOR of the,EXCHEQUER said, that as several' Curates had been materially affeaed in consequen& of the Bill .of this Session, enforcing It.cittesice of the Clergy, he should to-morrow move for a Committee, to t,,ke their case into consider. ation. CORR V moved In discharge two orders of the zoth Junn last,. with regard to the Board of First Fruit's a,id Tenths in Ireland, for the purpose of moving ft)r Other more accurate accounts. The accounts were afterwards brought up and laid upon the 'Table. • Mr. Co P. R v gave notice that he shoald on Wed. nesd.ty, ttke Comniittee of Supply, move for a sum of money for the purpose of enabling Clergy. men in Ireland to rebuild parsonage houses. The further consideration of the Report of the Cotton Weavers lidl was postponed to this day three months, on the Motion of Colonel ,ITANLay, after a few observations trout Mr. Lz,lca•_ and .the CHANCILLOR of the .Excnitousai with" an understanding that the subjea should be taken,up early in the next session, and a measure brought forward on a larger scale. _ _ Mr. ALE x a;?; Dra brought up the . Report of the Commit tee ,v,specting 'feu exported to Ireland, whieh.waa read and agreed to, and a Bill ordered. Instructions were ordered, to Make provision in the Bill for the bet ter prevention of frauds in the of. Malt, Beer tnd fig, in Se.,l land ; also re speliiig Pet:nits tinr the rmoval or Tea and Coir.e in nt, Arid teir the more elfeEtually securing the Duties 'on Colti2e. _ _ _ Mr. Vn NSITTAILT moved for leave to bring in a pill to redify a fittA,Ake in the Ad of laSt Session respelling theduty on 44ettuneets. Leave given. - - . - Mr. V. si TVA& r presented an Account of Monies ad. vall4ed oru ot . the CiVil-Libt ItC:VellIld, for the P4blie Ser 7vice, not•reitirtbuiractl by Parliament. • r Mr. A Ls.x i t DiII brought up the Report of the Commit. tee respcding the Duties on Quassia,: which was read and . agreed to, And Bills ordiretL , • The. third .reading.of the Assessed Taxes Bill, and the Scotch Assessed Taxes Bill, was postponed till Thursday. Mr.. tAXANDLit brought e tw the Reports of the PPM., Goods Bat,. the Irishjustices' Bill, the Irish Militia fa. Indies Bill, anti the Bill .for allowing the issue of Habeas 'Corpus in certain cases; which .were severally read and agreed to, and the Bills ordered to be read a third time to. 'num ' Mr. AtaxANoza also brought, up the Scotch Army of Reserie M take hill, Whi4l: was read n first time: second Anne to-murrow. _ The Volunteer Corps Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-inurrow. The itet;cipt Duty Bill was read a second time, and corn. milted fur Thursday. Adjourned. T H E S U N. SOLIIM QUISMICiat lALit:Ut AtLDIAT LON D 0 iv, 3 L l' 26, 1803. LasT night arrived a Ilamtuts4) Letters from liatiaver cif the mth instant state * that fifteen thousand French Troops are to occupy the distritt of Lanentursh, fur whose use the Ma. gazines establisshed there for the Hanoverian Army will now be appropriated. From Naples of the ad it is - stated, that Lord Lsox had signified to the KING of Nist.t.r,s that he had orders from his Court ro treat the two Sici_ lies as an Enemy's Country, if French Troops should enter them. It is stated nevertheless that the French Ambassador at Naples lia'd notified, that, the Neapolitan Governmet would be expected - to provide for fifteen thousand French Troops in that territory during the War. In consequence of the refusal of the Court of Vienna, to shut its Ports on the A4ratic against the English', the French are said to be very ktively employed in the Harbours of 4icena and Otranto, in fitting out Flotillas with the hupeless" expdtation of excluding the Vessels of this Country from the whole of the Adriatic. Scarcely had the GRAND SECNIOR, recovered from the Alarm occasioned by the newl of the am. Fiation of Cairo by the,Alluni4ns, thaii he received intelligelan that a Ba.nditti had laid siege to