The Sun. — London, England, 1839-08-16 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION. and Learned Friend. It had nothing whatever to do with any appointments of Justices—it cast no stigma on the corporation or town of Birmingham—it was a ne cessary measure, and he would put it to their Lordships to say whether it would not be better to have a police established under an independent and impartial authority than under any power that existed in Birmingham. The Duke of WELLINGTON was afraid that peace and co ncord, under any circumstances, were very far from Birmingham, and from the towns situated in that direction ; and it appeared to him that this Bill was a necessary conaepence of the disturbances that had prevailed in that town, and of the state of the question depending in a court of law respecting the le gality of the grant of the charter to that town. He believed that charter had been granted with great pre cipitation, and that the consequence was that the Town Council had not the power of levying a police rate. If the question should be decided against the legality of the charter, it would be absolutely necessary that there should be some power of regulating a police, and if that power were not gives by this Act, the town might again be in the same disturbed state that it had been in be fore. He considered, therefore, the Bill to be neces sary. The appointment of the Justices was another consequence of the granting of the charter. The Government had, likewise, not in October, but in Januarynast, granted Sessions of the Peace to the Corporation of Birmingham ; and being granted, that a Noble Lord in the other House had appointed certain persons to be Justices, for whose appointment he was responsible. But if it should be found that the granting of the charter was illegal, he believed it would be found also that the granting of the Sessions, and the appointment of the Justices, would be equally null and v oid, and which ren dered it still more necessary that care should be taken that by this Bill a Commission er should be appointed independent of take charge of the polic e totall y of the eharter.—(Hear , hea r, hear.) The appoint ment of those Sessions at the time the Chartists were moviog about the country w as certainly veryimproper; and he quite agreed with his Noble and Learned Friend, too, that no person should have been appointed to be a Justice of the Peace who was supposed to have par taken of the sentiments of those persons.—(Loud and continued cheering.) But there was another very curious circumstance attending this Commission, which showed the haste and want of considera tion with which all this had been carried into execution. It had been held by the highest legal authorities in the kingdom that the Magistrates of the county of War wick ought to have been in the exercise of a concurrent jurisdiction with the Town Magistrates in Birmingham, yet the Lord Chancellor, who should have known the subject correctly, had inserted the names of several County Magistrates in the list for the town.—(Hear.) ,He felt strongly the importance of making provision for the maintenance of the peace in Birmingham, and with that view he should vote for the Bill.—(Hear, hear.) Lord BROUGHAM said he did not dispute the ne cessity of giving Birmingham a good police, he only objected to this mode of giving it. A Corporation had been given to superintend the police, and until they had been found incompetent they ought to be allowed to re tain the management of it. If they desired the loan of money, they should have it, though in Birmingham they said they did not want it. To say that they should not manage their police because their charter was disputed, would be to argue for virtually disfranchising every Corporation similarly circumstanced. Lord DUNCANNON said the Government consi dered that if the public money were granted for main taining the Birmingham Police, they had a right to see that an efficient police was maintained. The Bill, how ever, was only for two years, and. at the end of that time, if the Corporation made provision adequate to the purpose, they might have the management again. The Earl of WICKLOW said he thought the best plan would have been to have established in Birmingham a police force similar to those which had proved so va luable in London and Dublin.—(Hear, hear.) It having been found that but for the aid of the Metropolitan Po lice the town of Birmingham might have been now de stroyed, the Government, after the evidence of the neg lect or incompetence of the Corporation, would have grossly neglected their own duty, had they not brought forward this measure for the establishment of an efficient police in the town. And after all that he had heard for and against, he should give it his support.—(Hear.) Lord BROUGHAM said, seeing the majority o the House in favour of the Bill, he should not divide their Lordships against it. He could not help bearing his testimony to the admirable conduct of the Metropo litan Police, which had more than answered the most sanguine expectations.—(Hear, hear.) But it could not pass Temple-bar, let it be recollected.—(A laugh.) It had nearly passed that boundary not long since— true—but the city had four Members, Birmingham only two—(A laugh)—and 14 clauses of the Bill were at once cut off to appease the incensed citizens, so that the city seemed a kind of " land of Goshen"—sacred from the intrusion of any foreign police.—(A laugh.) The Bill was read a second time. ROGUE MONEY (SCOTLAND) BILL. Lord DUNCANNON moved the second reading of the .Rogue Money Bill.—(A laugh.) Lord BROUGHAM observed that the Bill had not been introduced into the Commons until this present month.—( Hear.) The-Earl of GALLOWAY felt bound to declare that the Bill was really required in Scotland, for the pucikose of making the necessary provision to preserve or'ler. Lord DUNGANNON said the Noble Earl bad rightly stated the case. Lefd BROUGHAM said he expressed no opinion on the Bill. Ail he said wa , , that they were called on to legislate without knowing what it was about—( A laugh)—or without having time to learn. If the Bill were important, why had it not been introduced be fore ?—(1-lear, hear.) Lord DUNGANNON said the Scotch Members had certainly been motions that it should be brought in earlier, but it had been deemed proper to postpone it till an analogous measure had been brought in for Eng land, for the title of the Bill gave but "a queer idea of its object—it was called the Rogue's Money Bill—he could not Op that.—(A laugh.) Lord MELBOURNE said the object of the Bill was to give Scotland a more efficient polce. He did not know much about it—(A laugh)—but those who did had instructed him to say that by the Act of Geo. 1., passed in 1724, the freeholders were to assess in their several counties money to defray the charge of prosecuting criminals, and subsisting them while im prisoned. Now his Noble and Learned Friend, who did not appear to know what " rogue money" was, had legislated for it in the Reform Bill for Scotland, which transferred the levying the money from the freeholder to the Commissioners of Supply, and the object of this Bill was to provide that the assessment should be not on the old valuation, but on that of the new prison system. Lord BROUGHAM—Yes; we know now what " rogue money" is, but not what the Bill is. We are to legislate on trust. The Bill really goes to establish a new constabulary in Scotland. The Earl of GALLOWAY—No, no. Lord BROIiGH AM—Well, then, I should like to hear what it does do.—(A laugh.) The Earl of GALLOWAY said, by the Act of George 1., the assessment might be made for appre hending, prosecuting, and subsisting, prisoners ; but not for establishing a preventive police force, to effect which desirable object this Bill was calculated. Ldrd• BROUGHAM—Then it really does establish a new police in Scotland. Now, that certainly is a great measure.—(Hear, hear.) Some may object to it on constitutional grounds—(Hear, hear, from Earl Stanhope)—but undoubtedly it is a measure which, if important to be speedily passed, should have been read a second time in the other House before the sth Au gust.—( Hear, hear.) My Lords, we have been occu pied lately in throwing Bills out, I might almost say "by the score "—(Laughter)—because introduced first in July. But this Bill did not enter the House of Commons till August. We have no time to examine— we are to legislate, because we are told it is, required. What it is we know not. We must doubt that it is a good measure, because, my Lord, it is well to stand still in the dark—(Laughter)—and that is the surest course for le@islators.—( Hear, hear, from Lord Lyndhurst.) If we allow this Bill to go on it will encourage the ladies of the Government, teaching them that the later they bring in these Bills the less it will he discussed, e and thereby inducing them never to produce their mea sures till the end of the Session. The Duke o f RIC HMOND said, from a ll h e b a d h eard, this Bill waa universally desired in Scotland, where at presets the middle and lower classes were without protection-to their property. Prevention, it should be • considered, was b e tt er than punishment--,(Hear)—and 'he Bill was only permissive. The Bill was read a second time, e TRADE WITH R Viscount STRANGPORD presented a petition from certain merchants in London, complaining of th e inter ruption on the part of the French Government to the Bristish trading to the port of Portendic. The Noble Viscount warmly supported the petition, and state that as the petition would best speak for its e tf wo uld read it. The petition was as follows • he To the Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and Tern.. poral in Parliament assembled. The Petition of the undersigned British Mer. chants, Humbly sheweth, That your petitioners have been for some years engaged in carrying on a trade in gum at the British port of Por tendic, on the western coast of Africa : That, this article is one of great importance to many of the staple manufactures of Great Britain, and that the Ettliiih trade therein at the said Port of Portendic has been observed for more than a century with great and in creasing jealousy by the French merchants established in the:Senegal. That a tribe of Moors denominated the Trazars is sup ,to exercise considerable influence over the direction thinArade in the interior of that part of Africa where gum is principally produced ; that the French thought dealt - re war against this tribe in the year 1.932, and , under the pretext of carrying on the said war, the ivernor of the Senegal caused a report to be circulated [s 64 \ . . ' .. 1 i towards the close of the year 1 , 333 that he intended to blockade the coast of Portendic. That your petitioners, astonished at so extraordinary a menace, sought for protection against it from his late Ma. jesty's Government, in consequence of which the British Ambassador at Paris ( Earl Granville) was instructed to inquire whether anyisuch intention existed on the part of the Government of France, when a reply was given that they had no such intention. That notwithstanding this solemn pledge, the Governor of the Senegal despatched two ships of war in July, 183 . 4, to the said British Bay of Portendic , whe re two En g lish merchant vessels, the " Governor Temple" and the " In dustry," chartered by two of your petitioners were then engaged in carrying on the gum trade with the Moors; that these two vessels were ordered by the . Freneh Com mander to quit the Bay without taking in the cargoes of gum prepared for them on the sho re ; that the En g lish captains refused to obey this order, whereupon one of the French ships anchored close to the coast, and com menced firing upon the Moors with grape and round shot; that the English flag was placed upon the gum collected on the shore intended for e mbarkation ; that the flag was fired upon by the French; that the two merchant vessels were captured, taken to the Senegal, and not restored until much of the benefit of the voyage was lost to the char terers, and that after upbraiding the two supercargoes in the most insolent language, the said Commander ordered them on board his ship, where he detained them for se veral days as prisoners. That an official proclamation having been previously is. sued, the said British coast of Portendic was actually block aded by the French on 15th of February, 1835, and an adequate force stationed in the Bay to maintain the said blockade, which was continued without intermission for more than six months. That the " Eliza," belonging to one of your petitioners, which had arrived at Portendic a fortnight before the com mencement of the blockade, and had landed and disposed of part of her outward cargo, and was prepared to ship from the shore the gum bargained for in exchange, was violently boarded, taken possession of, and conveyed out of the harbour by the French marine, leaving the gum on the beach ; and that subsequently several other vessels belong ing to your petitioners, which were proceeding to that place with cargoes of dry goods, in order to procure gum in ex change, were driven away by the blockading force. That the practical result of these proceedings has been, in the first place, to inflict actual losses on your petitioners to the amount of 100,000/. ; and, in the second place, to cause intercourse between the English and Moorish dealers in gum a derangement, which has not been since found susceptible of any permanent remedy, and that the trade may be said to have passed from your petitioners almost wholly into French hands. That your petitioners lost no time in preferring claims against the Government of France for indemnity for the heavy losses which they have sustained by reason of the outrages herein stated; and that her Majesty's Govern ment, and the Law Officers of the Crown, having taken the said claims into consideration, have found them, after the most minute examination, to be valid and just in every respect. That the claims of your petitioners for redress having been forwarded by her Majesty's principal Secretary of State to the Government of France, such redress has been refused by the French upon various pretexts, all of which have been pronounced unsatisfactory by the Law Officers of the Crown. That in answer to the repeated applications made by your petitioners to the said Secretary of State, requesting that he would obtain from France the indemnity to which he admits they are entitled, his Lordship has stated that he has done and is doing every thing in his power in order to obtain such redress for your petitioners. That nevertheless year after year passes over without such redress, or even any prom►se of ►t, being procured from France, and that thus the losses inflicted upon your petitioners in the years 1834 and 1835, have been very seriously aggravated, not to mention the further injuries which they have since sustained by the almost total termi nation of their trade at Portendic. That, under these circumstances, your petitioners appeal to your Lordships for protection, and trust that you will take such steps as may seem most meet in order to procure for your petitioners indemnity for past injuries as well as security for their future trade. That your petitioners are far from soliciting the adop. tion of any measures which might affect the amicable relations now so happily subsisting between England and France ; but, at the same time, they humbly conceive that the treatment which they have received from the authorities of France is such as cannot be tolerated without compromising the honour of her Majesty's Crown, and exposing the rights of her subjects to frequent violation in every quarter of the globe. That the examples recently afforded by the French Go- vernment of their determination to enforce by the most energetic means the claims of French merchants against the States of Mexico and Buenos Ayres, cannot be left out of your Lordships' consideration on this occasion, and that it may be useful to impress upon that Government the expediency of yielding to others that measure of jus tice which, to the great injury of neutral countries, they have demanded and by force of arms obtained for them. selves. And your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray,&c. The Noble Viscount then proceeded to contend, that if the British had a right to the trade, which right he thought was unquestionable, the Government were bound to uphold it by every means in their power. The various statements contained in this petition had been brought under the consideration of another Assembly last year by the Hon. and Learned Member for the Tower Hamlets—(Sir S. Lushington)—and who made a motion in that House for the production of papers, but which motion was withdrawn on the assurance of the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs that the Government was negociatin;; with France in the transaction, and that the production of those papers would be prejudicial to that negotiation. But that Noble Lord admitted all the facts contained in the petition that was then presented. Although no one could be more desirous of seeing the good under standing that at present existed between France and England continued, yet God forbid that England should certainly put up with insult and injury for fear of breaking it. He hoped the Noble Viscount at the head of her Majesty's Government would take the matter into his serious and earnest consideration. He was satisfied that this great commercial community would never suffer such continued insults and injuries, and unless the matter was taken up in a proper tone and spirit the most alarming dis satisfaction would exist through the country.—( Hear.) Viscount MELBOURNE acknowledged that this was a matter for serious consideration, and that it might lead to serious results, unless some means could be found for termi nating it in an amicable manner. Undoubtedly it was obvious that a great outrage had been committed on her Majesty's subjects, and that great injury had been done. But there had been no want of attention on The part of her Majesty's Government in making remonstrances on this subject. He thought great injustice had boon committed by the agents of France in that part of the world—( Hear, hear)—but the French Government had not viewed it in that light, and he was sorry to say they had talon quite an opposite and contrary view of the subject. He could assure the Noble Viscount that the matter had been pressed on the consideration of the French Government in the most earnest and serious manner ; and he did hope when it came to be maturely considered by the French Government it would be viewed in a just light, and that due reparation would be afforded to her Majesty's subjects for the injuries they had sustained —(Hear, hear.)_ MEDICAL REFORM. The Marquis of LANSp 0 WNE presented a petition from the Provincial Medical and Surgical AssOciation, composed of 1,200 persons, praying for a reform of the medical profession, and that an alteration might be made in the present mode of examining medical students. SLAVE TRADE (PORTUGAL) BILL. Lord MELBOURNE Then rose to move the second reading of the Slave Trade ( Portugal) Bill. His Lord ship observed that it would not be necessary for him to in trude on the time of their Lordships for a very long period. The provisions of the Bill, and the powers which were required to be conferred, were stated in a very clear, simple, and distinct manner in the preamble. They were that those persons employed by her Majesty in the seizure of vessels engaged in the slave trade might be indemnified against suits and actions brought against them for carrying into effect such orders. He thought their Lordships would see it was necessary, after all that had been done by this country, to take some decisive step in this affair. It had been said that slavery instead of decreasing, was, not withstanding all the measures that had been adopted, in creasing. One point was certain, that whether they had increased the amount of it or not, they had greatly ag gravated and increased the sufferings which were ex perienced under the system—the sufferings and hor rors depicted so ably last Session by his Noble and Learned Friend. It was a general feeling entertained by all, and had frequently been expressed by their Lord ships, that it was their duty to do everything in their power to put an end to this traffic, and to finish the good work they had begun. Unfortunately they had had the cupidity of man to deal with. Such was human nature that where gain was concerned every horror and every misery was disregarded, and that having had to be en countered, the complete success that had been anticipated had not been accomplished. Among the nations in which this trade was carried on he was sorry to say that Portugal stood distinguished in this most iniquitous traffic. It was not his intention to use any invective or strong language, because he trusted their Lordships were resolved upon taking such strong steps as to render that quite unnecessary. He would refer to Lord Howard De Wa l de n ' s re p ort, to the address v oted by the House last year , and to the address voted only a few days ago by their Lordships to her M a j es ty, praying her to take such steps as would put an end to this trade. Her Majesty had complied with that prayer— ( Hear, bear)—and ordered directions to be sent out to her cruisers to take the most efficacious measures of carrying out the spirit of the last address.—( Cheers.) And he presented this Bill, as being necessary to carry out their Lordships' own pretensions upon this great and important subje'•t. And with these o bservations he begged to move the second reading of the Bill. The Duke of WELLINGTON believed that there was no proposition more true than that this trade had in creased of late years;and been exten ded to p arts of the coast fro m w hi c h i t h a d 'been entirely expelled 25 years ago. But the proposition he contended for was, that this trade su i c li h tar a y ought to be put an end to, and the treaties on the subject enforced by diplomatic arrangements, or, if necessary, upon question. measures , thern responsibility of her Majesty's Ministers, by naval or knowledge of the details of the circumstances attending a dlv o ti r coeu b t o ht t ht to be a Parliamentproceedingcould of her Ma jesty upon th e her Ministers. This . was . the ground he took a few da s y go. It was impossible for him, or for any of their LordshiP a on the other side of the'or three of them Lordships, two House, and in her M ajesty's Councils, to know what were disposal of her Majesty to car the means at the carry into execution these measures, much less were they able to judge of the consequences of carrying such meas ures into execution ;or of knowing if the attempt t o c arry them into execution should be resisted, and the commerce eotf this country thereby endangered, what ought to be done? EW SPAPE 1, ,4 . , .C.:. --- -. - = '.. .:''': :\• :: si Cpl THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, AUGUST 16, 1839. They were there entirely upon hypothetical speculations. cal outcry against the Americans. It was forgotten that It was not in the power of either House of Parliament to the pe o ple of this country had no slaves, and therefore had judge of the circumstances—the knowledge rested entirely no self-interest in the preservation of slavery, and that if with the Executive Government. He saw every reason it had not been left to those of our felow-subjects who for wishing that her Majesty hsd taken her own course had slaves, to the people of Jamaica and Barbadoes, and upon the responsibility of her Government, rather than Trinidad, and Berbice, how long would it have been be that the other House of Parliament should have sent this fore slavery was abolished.--( Hear, hear, hear.) And proposition to their Lordships. He saw in all the clauses let it be ' o b se rved that in the N oi th ern States in the Bill that the attention of P ar li amen t h a d no t b een o f America, where there were no slaves, there was less sufficiently directed to the nature of the treaties prejudice against emancipation, and that it was only in of this country, and which were now existing with the Southern and the slave States that this prejudice so almost all parts of Europe, for the purpose of putting greatly prevailed.—( Hear, hear.) But unhappily the down this trade. He would beg the House to observe spirit of mercantile interest—the thirst for gold—in what the effect of the first clause of this Bill was. By it fluenced the Americans to carry on the hateful slave trade, the Lord High Admiral could give authority to anybody and it was difficult to grapple with it —( Hear.) Vessels to take and to capture any vessel engaged in this trade in were built in American ports to send to Cuba, and other any place. The treaty with France limited the space in Spanish dominions, for the African slave trade.—( Hear.) which any visitation of French ships could be made at all, He had a letter from a respectable person in Barbadoes, and it also stipul a t e d t h at suc h v i s i tat i on cou ld b e ma d e b y s t a ting that within a few months twenty-nine American no officer under th e ran k o f Li eutenant i n h er M a j est y' s slavers were on the coast, manned by Portuguese, Brazi service, specially appointed for the purpose, the num- liens, and Cuba men, but that some of them had Arneri ber of ships limited, and their names given. The can Captains.—( Hear, hear.) What harm, he would Bill before the House was to empower any person, ask, could arise in our relations with any country from an not even an o ffi cer of an y rank, but any person Act of Parliament which only gave indemnity in our commission e d b y t h e L or d High Admiral to visit and search Courts, without relieving the Government from any in any ship belonging to any nation. In making a proposition demnification by treaty for anything which might be done of such a nature i t oug h t t o h a ve been done by message, so under its orders. If this country meant to put down the that Parliament might well know what were the explicit African slave trade, Parliament and the country would intenti ons of t h e G overnmen t ; and Parliament ought spe- cheerfully make good that indemnity to our cruisers. He cially to take care that in any of their acts they did not wished to say one word with respect to the putting down violate treaties, or even raise a suspicion of doing 0. Those of the slave trade. It w as a favourite doctrin e observations applied not only to the first clause, but to every with some, and had received the sanction of a friend one in the Bill. The fourth, or the equipment clause, of his, who had recently published a pamphlet, that we however, was the most offensive of all. In all treaties with were beginning at the wrong end, and that all we could °thee Powers there were special clauses for the manner in do to put down the slave trade would only make it worse, which visitations might be made, and equipments regulated, and that we had better never have made a treaty against but by the Bill on the table of the House every ship was to the slave trade. He (Lord Brougham) was not exactly be searched by any one having the commission of the of that opinion. If this country went to the full extent it Lords of the Admiralty. There were some nations— would put down slavery altogether.—(Cheers.) But it but one in particular—with which we had no treaty had never put forth its strength. It was said the slava —the United States. No doubt by the Treaty of trade could not be put down until slavery was destroyed. Ghent they promised to co-operate with us in putting an What ! were they to wait till the Virginians and the Caro end to the slave trade. He was not quite sure whether linians and the Marylanders all agreed to put down slavery they or we were the first to declare that trade piracy—he —they who gloried in the shame of slavery—to wait till believed the honour of that belonged to the Noble and they emancipated their slaves ? Why, it would be waiting Learned Lord opposite. But it was quite clear from the for a century. Would the House allow the African slave correspondence of the British Consul with the Havannah trade to go on until that time? It was ridiculous to sup- Commission, that that Government would consider a de- pose that would be the case. The foreign slave trade had tention of any ship belonging to them as an insult, and been increased. But what had become of the English slave would be resisted. That was another reason why any mea- trade? Did Wilberforce andClarkson and Buxton and others sure should originate with the Government upon the autho- labour in vain ? And was it to be imagined that this was all a rity of the Crown, because they were acquainted with all mournful retrospect that we had, though late, put down these circumstances and Parliament was not. All officers the English slave trade, and wiped out that foul stain or other persons so engaged under the Bill were indemni- from the English name ? Was this all a dream ? No fled, but the State was not. In all other treaties such thing. Slaves were carried to our old colonies to there was a clause making us liable to a very the number of 20,000 a-year, and 10,000 were taken to large demurrage for even a slight detention. Now our new colonies; and if the trade had not been abolished, no ship belonging to the United States would be stopped the number would before this time have been 40,000. — for even a few hours by a visitation, but would cause us to ( Hear, hear.) But it was said the profit is so great that pay most dearly. He called upon the House to respect men would run the risk of any loss. But did any man the rights of other nations, as had always been the prat- see that a t Bristol, or London, or Liverpool, the slave tice of this country in former times, and reject the Bill, trade was carried on? Why ? Because it was no longer leaving all the responsihility, as it ought to be, on the shout. a pecuniary risk that the criminal was exposed to, but the ders of the Government. risk of being hanged or transported to Botany Bay, with Lord BROUGHAM said the House, acting upon the other congenial but not more guilty criminals.—( Hear, principles laid down in the speech of the Noble Duke, hear.) That was what had been done, and that had been ought to go into Committee on the Bill, where, though found effectual. If a man was satisfied with the the principle might be maintained, such alterations risk of a large profit, he would not run the risk might be effected as would make the Bill quite innoxious, of being dealt with as a felon.—( Cheers.) No man could yet rende r it on e of great service.—( Hear, hear, pretend to say there was any slave trade in t he United hear.) It was o f th e last importance on that great States of America. It was the American flag which was question, with a view to the abolition of that accursed used to cover the Spanish and Portuguese slave trade. traffic, that they should not reject the Bill in its present Why should not a measure be effectual with regard to Por stage, but that they should go into Committee in order to tugal which had been effectual with respect to England? discuss its m er it s . He was of that opinion, because he If we were to say we are resolved she shall perform her . knew th e sta t e o f t h at accurse d tra d e —b ecause h e k new obligations by treaty to us, who have al wa y s been her pro w had push e d its roots deeply into other countries in con- tectors, her mistress rather than her friend and ally—to us, sequence of its being abolished in this country, and know- who sent the Noble Duke out to cover his name with im ing that it had gone more deeply into the soil in our more perishable glory by driving away the enemies who had ancient ally, Portugal, than in any other country. overrun Portugal—to us, who have made Portugal what Knowing that it had spread its roots in the hearts o f she is, and prevented her from annihilation —if she finds the people of that country—that whereas in other coun. that we a ro in earnest, Queen, Commons, and Lords, and tries it created horror, disgust, and execration,lin that coun- are determined no longer to be trifled with, I will answer try, it had been received as a blessi ng or a b oon , h e prayed for her finding ways and means to put down the Portu g uese them to go into Committee on the Bill. H e cou ld assure slave trade. Let her only perform that which she has their Lordships that in the slave trade the accursed traffic stipulated to perform, namely, assimilate her laws against was never in better odour in any town in the West Indies the slave trade to ours, instead of leaving it a penalty, than it was in the ports of Lisbon and of Oporto. The against which a pecuniary premium may insure a man, and Portuguese reg ar d e d the last Bill on the subject as the then I will answer for it that Portugal will succeed in put death blow of the slave trade. What must have been ting down her trade.—( Hear, hear.) I sit down, my their feelings—he said this without any disrespect to Lords, with the most confident and lively and consoling their Lordships—when their apprehensions, their fe- expectation, that I have not addressed your Lordships al _ verish apprehensions, con s id er i ng the bringing in of the together in vain, and that you will give this righteous and Bill synonymous with the passim , - of it, were allayed by necessary Bill a second reading.—( Loud cheers.) finding it had been thrown out by their Lordships; when Lord W YNFO RD was as anxious as his Noble Friend they thus were led to believe that a change had come o'er to put down the slave trade all over the world, but he the spirit of our legislation—that we were about to pro- would not, for the purpose of doing so, counsel their Lord ceed in a contrary direction to that which we had pursued ships to violate any treaty which might endanger the peace ever since 1807 ? But happily th e hopes derived from the of this country.—( Hear, hear.) This was not a Bill rejection of that Bill were damped, if not extin_ merely to regulate any proceedings on the part of this coun guished by the address, which would arrive by the same try with respect to Portogal. It authorised any person packet—an address which they would naturally expect having a commission from the Admiralty to stop and search was to be followed up, flat only in letter but in spirit— any ship whatever. Now this country had no right to stop (Hear, hear, hear)—in redemption of the pledge which a French ship, unless our vessel was manned with persons their Lordships gave, that if the Crown issued orders to its of whose names the French Government were in cruisers, to prevent this traffic, they would join with the possession.--( Hear.) Was the Bill consistent with other House in carrying such orders into effect.—( He ar , that treaty ?—( Hear, hear.) If this Bill went into hear.) If, hoineYer, after this, their Lordships rejected Committee, their Lordships might alter it as they pleased, the Bill—founded clearly on that very address—all the but it could never be of any value unless the treaties were former hopes of those parties would revive—their new-be- altered.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to America, there gotten apprehensions would be allayed—and forth from the was no treaty which would authorise us to stop any Arne port of Lisbon, covering the waters of the Tagus, whiele rican ship to attempt to search her. This was a point for all purposes connected with the slave trade—for all which ought to be answered by Noble Lords, instead of commercial purposes—might really be accounted as a their confining themselves to the propriety of putting down British stream, that stream would be covered by the perpe- the slave trade. The other night the House pledged itself trators of the most enormous, the most incorrigible debit- to do all it could to put down the slave trade on the part quency, that ever disgraced the character of man, that ever of Portugal, which meant doing everything which, ac inflicted bloodshed, misery, and murder on the human cording to treaties, was lawful. This Act was no protec species.—( Cheers.) Every breeze that blew would waft tion if carried beyond treaties. It would be a dead letter, to the shores of Africa the Portuguese slave-trader engaged except that it might involve England in difficulty. He in a traffic then for the first time carried On under th e WAS willing to go the full length that could legally be sanction of a British Legislature, while all quibbling on the gone to put down slavery in all countries, but he wished it constructions of treaties, all negotiations between Courts, to be done according to treaties or the law of nations. He all notes and answers among diplomatists would, by the entirely ;Treed with the Noble Duke in thinking that the Portuguese criminals be flung to the air that they inhaled, Bill ought not to be committed.—( Hear. ) and denied to the inmates of their pestilential holds The Bithop of LONDON said it was with sincere —(Cheers)—when they knew that the accursed slave trade concern that he felt himself called upon to vote against the was now to be carried through the world, to the amendment, and in support of the motion of the Noble the distress and the destruction of mankind, under the au - Viscount. The dut y was im p osed on this nation of sup thority—not of a British Act of Parliament, but of the pressing this traffic, which had so long disgraced Christian- British House of Lords.—( Loud cheers.) For these rea- dom. If we valued our liberty, we ought not to lose a sons it was that he urged their Lordships—and be espe- moment in giving liberty to those who had SO long, partly cially directed his argument to the Noble Duke opposite , through our instrumentality, been b ere f t o f i t , an d i n whose feelings he knew to be against this dreadful traffic— restoring those blessings to the benighted inhabitants of for these reasons he earnestly entreated their Lordships at Africa, for the loss of which we hen so tearful an least to read this Bill a second time.—( Hear.) He would account to give. The rejection of this Bill, he now come to the difficulties which the Noble Duke had was satisfied, would induce the Portuguese to think distinctly stated. First, could there be a preamble better they might continue this traffic with impunity, and suited to the real state of the facts ? And that was all that before six months elapsed the sea would be could be required to remove the great objection of the covered with slavers. His Hon. and Learned Friend had Noble Duke, to which, so far from turning a deaf misinterpreted the conclusions drawn by Mr. Buxton, ear, he (Lord Brougham) felt disposed to yield re- which no Christian could read without feeling it his duty spect. His Noble Friend behind him had stated to strain every nerve to put an end to so abominable a officially—and according to the best precedents, a state- traffic. What Mr. Buxton argued was, that after the ment of any Member of the Cabinet, much less could it sacrifices we had made in the cause of liberty to put down be doubted of the head of the Cabinet—was a sufficient slavery, our efforts had not been successful in the degree ground for a preamble. His Noble Friend had stated t h at on which we might reasonably calculate ; . b u t h e did not orders had been issued —( Lord Lyndhurst, " What or- say that if we had done nothing the present ders ?") He thought that enough—there might certai n ly state of the world would not have b een worse . have been a more minute description. Suppose that at With respect to treaties, that was a subject on which he the close of the preamble as now given, these words were (the Bishop of London) did not feel competent to enter, added, " And whereas her Majesty has been pleased to but it did seem to him to be a matter of common. sense, issue orders"—it might be "in compliance with an ad- that this Bill, if it became an Act of Parliament, would in dress of the House," but that was immaterial—to issue orders nowise alter the position of this country with regard to to her cruisers to capture Portuguese vessels engaged in those treaties, because the maintaining or v i o l a ti ng th o se the slave trade, or any vessels engaged in the slave trade , treaties would still rest with the Crown.—( Hear, hear.) not having on board papers showing that they were justly The Act did no more than give them increased powers entitled to claim the protection of the flag. of any state or ' and facilities for carryi n g into effect those measures which , nation ;" then proceeding to enact the indemnity clauses ; with a strict regard to treaties as they now existed, or as that might not be perhaps the very best possible mode in they might by future negotiations be modified, might which this could be stated, though he thought it sufficient. be required. Even on this point he should not feel pre- It stated, however, that the Crown had issued the orders, chided from voting in favour of the Bill, w hich h e and it called upon Parliament, in redemption of its pledge, should do with the most perfect satisfaction. The passing to assist in executing these orders.—( Hear, bear.) The of this A ct w o uld be an honourable demonstration in the Crown acted in this on its own responsibility, and the Legis- eyes of all Europe of a fixed determination on the part of lature, was only asked to assist in carrying out that a Christian people to consider that, whatever they might which the Crown had, on its own responsibility, proposed. have achieved for Europe by securing the liberties of Surely that was fully consistent with the doctrines of the millions, yet that the great work would remain imperfect Noble Duke. It might be said that the words of this pream- until they should have put down that most revolting and Me would sanction a right of search.—( Hear.) Very well, abominable traffic which bad been and which continued to The Noble Duke never argued that the Government be a disgrace to the nations of Europe.—( Cheers.) might not do that on its own responsibility. The Noble The LORD CHANCELLOR rose for the purpose, Duke said the Crown might issue orders to capture, or if possible, of divesting their Lordships' minds of what he even go to war by proclamation.—(" No," from Lord conceived to be a great misapprehension on this subject, Wynford.) " Really, m' Lords (thundered forth the No- because he felt their Lordship would concur in voting for ble and Learned Lord) there are some of your Lordships the measure if the apprehension had not taken possession who are ready to--no, I won't say it—(Laughter)—but of their minds, in consequence of what his Noble and it is really extraordinary, the zeal of ray Noble and Learned Learned Friend (Lord Wynford) had said, that it would Friend—l will not say for the Portuguese slave trade—but lead to a violation of existing treaties. His Noble and lam astonished beyond measure, that be who so dis. Learned Friend had said that this Bill must be considered tinguished himself above his learned brethren, the Judges of as if it enacted that French ships should be searched con the Queen's Bench with him, by a celebrated judgment he trary to the treaties with France. There were no such delivered—( Hear, hear)—should have on this occasion enactments in the Bill. The enactments were to enable been betrayed into a degree of excited zeal which prevents the Crown to give directions for dealing with Portuguese him from using that acuteness and sagacity which belongs vessels, and certain other vessels. to him." The reciting, in the preamble, that the Crown Lord WYNFO RD—All other vessels. had issued their orders on its own responsibility would not The LORD CHANC ELLOR—Well,all other vessels; lighten the Ministerial responsibility, nor relieve them from but if the master of a French ship said we are protected the consequences of an order which was against the law of by the treaty, and we will not be searched, it would be a vio nations.—( Hear, hear.) But the Noble Duke further lation of the treaty to search that ship. Bat was it because said, we should recollect that we had treaties with France, they directed search to be made where search might be &c. The Act, however, would be waste paper as regarded made, that search would be made where it ought not to be the law of nations. The Act could do no more than made ?—(Hear, near.) The Crown would be just as much regulate our municipal rights, rule our own Courts, bound to adhere to the treaties with France, and any other or bind our Judges ; but a Judge d ec iding on t h e country, if the Bill passed, as it would if the Bill were re law of nations must not look t o t h e Act—he jetted. But with regard to Portugal, the Bill would en must respect the law of nations, not the law of th e l an d, doubtedly be an effective measure. The object of the Bill In the face of this law of the land, in the teeth o f it, h e was to enable her Majesty to direct her cruisers to do that must decide according to the treaties , a nd no treat y c ou ld which Portu g al had contracted to do, but which she had re be altered by Acts of Parliament.—( Hear, hear, h ear .) fused, and to prevent them being ca lled on in this coun- Let this be illustrated by a few particu lars. Su pp ose let- tr y to account f or what they had done. The issuing ters of marque issued to a privateer, or what was m uc h of orders by the Crown would not indemnify those better, directions given by the Admiralty to the Que en ' s officers, and was her Majesty to direct her officers to seize cruisers, and a French s hip s eized by them. Lord Gran- those vessels, at the peril of they themselves being liable vine, when required by the Court of the Tuillcries to give to pay for the damage susta ined, or the value of the vessel explanation, would not be able to quote an Act of Portia- that might have been taken. That their Lordships, he was ment, the French Foreign Minister would instantly reply sure, did not wish. B ut then, he would ask, what did their (if he did) that th e A c t m i g ht be a ll very well as regarded Lordships mean when they addressed the Crown to issue our subjects, b u t t h a t b e t we en E ng land and France these orders, and said they would take such measures as it was utterly waste paper, as being against treaty. would enable them to be executed ?—( Cheers.) What He would observe, in passing, that he considered it much measures? H e app re h en ded, simply to indemnif y the the best course to commit the work of put tin g down the officers that migh t act in execution o f those or slave trade to the Government ships than to p rivateers— ders.—( Hear, hear. ) That was all this Bill proposed ( Hear, hear)—and he hoped and believed th at the Noble to do—( Cheers. ) He did, t herefore, hope that when his Lord at the head of the Admiralty would be ready to Noble and Learned Friend looked at the provisions of the increase their num b er , an d a b ove a ll to a dd s team vess els Bill, and saw that its object was confined to those purposes, that could go up the creeks and inlets on t he coast of and left the rela t i ons of this country with other countries Africa, and prevent the slave ships from taking in their untouched, that he would not refuse to go into Committee human cargoes, which was better than capturing them on the Bill. If their Lordships apprehended there was afterwards.—( Hear, hear.) Now as to the 4th section, he an ything in the Bill that would interfere with our re doubted the propriety of enumerating so many different lations as to oth er coun t r ies, nothing could be circumstances as were therein described as evidence to more easy than to introduce a proviso in Com_ guide the Courts, especially as it was not enacted that i mittee to guard against that—( Hear, hear, hear)__ any or all were to be taken as sufficient and conclusive, but to refuse to p ass this fill after the resolutions their but merely that they were to be taken as prima facie Lordships had agr ee d to seeme d to him to be conduct the proof—a vorylame amid impotent conclusion,' unintelligible.l t wa s pr " most no t, however, peculiar to this Bill. With regard to Ame- they had undertake n to d o if the Queen should issue cer rica we had no treaty with her on the subject. ) taro orders to her cruisers—and these orders had been The American Government, however, had early joined in issued.—(Hear, hear.) the great wo rk of abolishin g the slave trade, whatever Lord ELLiNBOROUGH—If those orders have been might be thought of their conduct as to the continuance of issued the y ou ght to be curamunicated to the House,— slavery. As to this last point, there was often a pharasai- . (Hear, hear.) Viscount MELBOURNE—There never was such a thing as that done. Lord ELLE NBOROUG H said that to know what measures were necessary to be taken, it was requisite to know what the orders were. The Bill confounded two prin . ciples that ought tohave - beenkept entirely -distinct— measures with respect to Portugal, and measures with respect to other countries. It was said their Lord ships were only now asked to pass such a measure as would indemnify the officers for executing the orders that had been given ; but that was a totally distinct case from that brought under their notice, because they were now asked to make provision for indemnifying officers who seized the vessels of any nation. When he heard the observations of the Noble Duke he had thought that although the Noble Duke pointed out the difficulties and dangers that might arise, he might perhaps have been dwelling on an exagge rated picture of the evil ; but he (Lord Ellenborough) had since had placed in his hands the last Report of the Com missioners of Sierra Leone, and he found that all the Noble Duke had prophesied was actually intended—(Hear)—and the object was to seize the vessels of all nations that might be suspected of carrying on the slave trade. The Com missioners said that even a treaty with America was of little importance—that the slave trade bad gone from France to Portugal, from Portugal to America, and that it would go to all the States of South America; but they said there was a remedy in time of war, and that Great Britain exer cised the right of searching all neutral vessels, and that that was the only possible mode of putting down the slave trade.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The Commissioners might be right in that, but what they meant was universal war.—( Cheers.) And desirous as he was of putting an end to the slave trade, he was not prepared to run the risk of universal war for the accomplishment even of that ob ject.—( Hear, hear.) He was surprised that Noble Lords opposite, after hearing what the Noble Duke had said should not yet have more fully explained themselves, and should not have evinced the slightest disposition to answer the objections the Noble Duke had stated, and by acting in conformity with constitutional principles, place the House in a position to do that which it desired to do—indemnify her Majesty's officers acting under those orders that were necessary. He was not prepared to give them the right to search vessels of all nations in time of peace ; and whatever might be the feeling of the country with respect to this measure now, yet when they found that under the delusive hopes held out by this Bill, they had been betrayed into measures that would lead to a collision with France, and a collision with the United States, and that there was a feeling of universal jealousy on the part of all maritime powers, and a determination to maintain their rights, by war, the people would thee think that the Noble Duke was wise, and that Noble Lords opposite had been led away to gratify the present feelings of the country to do that which had been productive of those evils. Earl MINTO said, that of all the surprising and as tounding statements which he was sorry to say he had heard that night, the greatest was that with which the Noble Baron commenced his speech, in which he called on the Government - to communicate to Parliament the terms of the orders issued to her Majesty's cruizers—a thing which had been universally resisted and refused and never demanded by that House—( Hear, hear.) And for what purpose was that to be done ? Why that that House might have the appearance of directing and conducting those very measures to which the Noble Duke and the Noble Baron said that House ought not to be a party, but which ought to be conducted on the sole responsibility of the Government— { Hear, hear.) The question ;of the relation of this coun- • try with other countries had been so well argued that he would not trouble their Lordships with going over the ail guments again., The Noble Duke had accused the Go vernment of neglecting treaties, and of asking for measures that would lead this country into war with other Powers, and more especially with the United States. There was nothing in the Bill calculated 'to excite the slighttst jealousy on the part of the United States.—( Hear, hear.) The slave trader had in many instances resorted to the flag and the ships of the United States. But bow had he done that? Why as the Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Brougham) had stated, a vessel was built in Arne rice, and shipped at the Havannah. She goes from Ha vannah to the coast of Africa with an American captain. She got a cargo of slaves, and came away with a Portu• guese or American flag. Five or six instances had occurred in which ships of this description had been stopped ; but how have the Americans treated the capture of those ves sels? The parties have been conducted to Boston The authorities there had said, that according to their feelings, the slave trade was a piracy not to be tolerated by any Christian country. They had not remonstrated against the capture of the vessels, but they had, on the contrary, requested that our officers and men should remain there to give evidence in their courts for the conviction of their subjects who had violated those laws.—( Hear, hear.) That was the danger we rao of a collision with the United States. The simple qUestion was, whether their Lordships 'should or should not, in one form or i another, co-operate with the Government in putting an d end to this detestable traffie.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord then read the address that had recently been sent up to her Majesty on this subject, and the answer to that address. Well, then, on the faith of Parliament, those orders had been issued. You have been informed (said the Noble Earl) by my Noble Friend, and I repeat that infor mation, that orders of a most peremptory nature have been despatched calculated to carry out the views of Parliament, orders which I shall not at present minutely describe, but I am perfectly ready to tell what will be the effect of those orders.—( Hear, hear.) Those orders will lead to the detention and capture by our cruisers of allslavers under the Portuguese flag, whether on the north side of the line or on the south side of the line, without regard to place or time. ,Those orders will lead to the detention and to the capture of every piratical vessel sailing without a legal national character, let her be found sailing where she may.—( Cheers.) That will be the effect of the orders.— ( Cheers.) The Noble Earl then proceeded to say, that to execute these orders, it was necessary the officers should be protected and indemnified for the consequences. He did not think that either the Government or his friends would take upon themselves any great responsibility in doing all they could to meet the wishes of the whole of the people of the country to suppress the Slave Trade. lie would now endeavour to satisfy their Lordships that the enactments of the Bill were necessary. The first enact ment was that her Majesty should issue orders to capture vessels not having on board the proper flag and papers ; he thought no Noble Lord could doubt the propriety of that enactment, because the mixed Commission Courts constituted under treaties could deal with no ships except those which had the colours and character of the countries to which the mixed Commission Court belonged, and therefore, unless this power was given, vessels carrying on this illegal traffic would have nothing to do but to sink their papers, and they would get off with impunity. It was necessary therefore that a power should be given to stop all ships that had not a lawful national character. Such a provision did not confer any additional privilege on the Crown, it only gave it the same powers that it now possessed. It was impossible also that any violation of a foreign flag could take place under this clause of the Bill. Then with respect to the next clause it provided that if any slaves were found on board the vessel they were to be brought to adjudication. Was not that provision necessary in order to deal effectually with piratical vessels? If such vessels were allowed to ran free, how could slaves that were found on board be brought to adjudication ? The next clause indemnified all persons against actions, and es tablished a Court, in which all claims were to he tried. With respect to the 4th clause he felt bound to differ with his Noble and Learned Friend, that it could be con veniently dispensed with, because he thought it essential that there should be some distinct statement as to the equipment which constituted a vessel carrying on the slave trade. These were the several provisions of the Bill, and he trusted their Lordships would give their assent to them. He begged their Lordships to consider that the slave trade of the world was at the present moment carried on under the flag of Portugal. He had received returns rela tive to the number of vessels that had been captured for carry ing on the slave trade, and of 43 vessels 36 were Portu. guese, 6 American, 1 Spanish, and 1 Russian. Latterly the whole slave trade of Havannah had been carried on under the flag of Portugal. In the papers now before their Lordships, they would find Portugal expressing her horror of the slave trade. Nothing was more zealous than the language of Portugal against the slave trade, but in proportion as she advanced ostensibly in horror of the slave trade, in that proportion it increased under her flag. —( Hear, hear.) She had declared the slave trade illegal, and yet she was the only slave trade nation in the world.— ( Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl concluded by expressing a hope that their Lordships would cordially co-operate with her Majesty's Ministers in putting an end to this detestable traffic. The Earl of GALLO WA Y wished to know if the Bill went into Committee, whether it was the intention of the Government to alter the preamble, by stating that her Majesty bad ordered ships engaged in the traffic to be captured, instead of that she might order it. Lord MELBOURNE said that there would be every disposition, on the part of the Ministry, to do all that was required. Lord BROUGHAM thought that they were bound to state the real fact in the preamble. The Earl of MINTO said that the recital would run That her Majesty had thought fit. " After a few observations from Lord FITZGERALD, Lord DENMA N rose and said—My Lords, I feel so strongly on this subject, that I should not forgive myself if I did not state my reasons for thinking that it is the duty of your Lordships to pass the present Bill. It is clearly admitted by the Noble Duke opposite, that Por tugal has no right to complain of any measures that may be adopted to put an end to the traffic in which they were engaged. lam not going to argue this question with the slightest party feeling whatever, but I think your Lordships having it now in your power to prevent a great and enormous crime, it is your bounden duty to do all in your power to accomplish so benevolent and desirable an object. If the House does not pass this Bill, they will be holding out a premium for the commis sion of a crime which diffuses blood over the whole world, and I hold, therefore, that it is the duty of your Lordships to part with no means of accomplishing so de sirable an object. Supposing this measure was made ap plicable to Portugal alone, would there be the slightest objection to the passing of this Bill? Certainly not; and if there is any objection arising from the other provisions of the Bill they may be each struck out. Your Lordships have now a case before you, and you ought not to allow any opportunity to pats which will enable you to make the suppression of the prac tice of the slave trade not merely a name, but a fact. What possible objection can there be to putting this coun try in the same position as Portugal in the suppression of the slave trade. My Noble Friend on the other side of ; the House must have forgotten the excellent judgment by which he distinguished himself in 1823, when a Judge in the Court in which 1 have the honour to preside ; that judgment was that no subject of any nation had any right to sue in the Counts of this country if he was guilty of a crime that was looked upon as such in the law of nations. The slave trade is looked upon as such, not only by this country, but by Portugal herself.—( Hear, hear. ) Though my Noble Friend has forgotten that judgment, the Right Rev. Prelate had stdted the same fact. The Governnvnt, therefore, in my opinihn, ought net to Ishrink from the performance of their duty in persevering in this Bill. When once it has been established that the slave trade is illegal, the restraint which treaties have put upon its abolition ought to looked at with a jealous eye. That is the print;ple that was laid down by Sir William Grant, and by that principle I think your Lordships ought to be guided.—( Hear, hear.) That I state to be the exception to the rule to be intro duced by the treaties. The slave trade bf Spain was re cognized by implication, end therefore it was that the judgment of the Court was that the English Captain had acted improperly, and was bound to make compensation. I may be told that the power proposed to be given by the Bill is not wanted=that the indemnity proposed to be given by it is not required ; but I need not tell thy Noble and Learned Friend that in our Courts of Law there arc many difficulties on the point, and that it would be the height of injustice to the officers employed to carry oat the humane principles recognised by your Lordships, should they not be indemnified—that an English Judge should be obliged to tell an English Jury, that for a single moment there was a doubt on their maids that he was guilty of any crime, and liable to heavy punishment for so humane an Act.—( Hear, hear.) I say, then, that the necessity is imposed upon your Lordships of providing that the Judge should be relieved from the necessity of stating that a man who had been engaged in the capture of his dark fellow creatures was engaged in a legal traffic; that he had a right to go and drag hundreds of thousands of his fellow creatures, and consign them to all the horrors of slavery ; and at the same time tell the jury, that the man who, in obedience to your Lordships' orders, stopped him in the inhuman traffic, was guilty of a punisbale crime. I say, your Lordships are called upon to do 'something for the protection of your own agents, acting upon your own ad vice.—( Hear.) Now, my Lords, with respect to the Admiralty Court—it surely would be a great security for the suppression of the slave trade, that that Court should have the power to adjudicate upon such cases in the spirit of English law. The Bill can do an injury to no one being ; it may be superfluous, but it can do no harm ; and if your Lordships should follow the course you took the other night, it will be a source of lasting regret to all those who abominate the horrid traffic. Then, my Lords, with respect to the seizure of other vessels. lam really sorry to say one word upon the subject after what fell from my Noble and Learned Friend. I feel ashamed to repeat that no Act of Parliament can give the Crown power to seize vessels which it is precluded from doing by treaties. The words " any vessel" mean only any vessel which the Crown is now permitted to seize by treaties into which it has entered, and does not include any vessel which under the treaties it could not capture. If the treaty with France or any other pawer binds only cer tain powers to be given to parties of a particular rank, surely that does not interfere with the principle of the Bill—it can be remedied and provided for in Committee. The description of persons to be employed may there be made conformable to the treaties. Although by the treaties the power is restricted to certain classes of individuals, still there is the right of search and visitation. The persons seizing must take their chance, for nobody can possibly tell that a vessel was fitted out for slaving pur poses until be has been on board. But let - me ask, my Lords, what other possible method is there of putting down the abominable and atrocious slave trade ? Now, my Lords, allow me to allude for a moment to the case of America. Undoubtedly there must be the right of search of American vessels as well as others. There have been seizures of American vessels, and she has not resisted it—nay, she has handed over her malefactors to her own tribunals for punishment, anxious as she was to put an end to the atrocious system. She has said that the slave trade is pi racy—an abomination and an atrocious crime—in which she ought to have been joined by all nations. Now, my Lords, if a mistake is made either with an American vessel or one of any ether nation, the Captain making the mistake must be liable in respect of it, or the State in his place. If it were not so, it would be impossible to take any steps for the suppression of the slave trade. I am extremely unwilling to go beyond the argument; the arguments of his Noble and Learned Friend were so clear and satisfactory that he did not think it possible the Bill can meet that fate which he thought it would do in the early part of the evening. The Government take upon them selves the responsibility of the whole matter, they call upon the House to do nothing but indemnify the officers of her Majesty in the discharge of a duty imposed upon them, and to allow the Ad rniralty Court t 9 adjudicate upon seizures made under the treaties. 1 wish to abstain from any topic that can produce any angry feeling. I am anxious to do nothing but call your Lordships' attention to the true state of the case—to show that there is not one objection made to the measure but can be remedied and ob viated in Committee. I therefore say that my opinion strongly is, that your Lordships should permit the second reading of the Bill. Lord WYNFORD explained. What he had stated was, that under the treaties with France and other countries, any person seizing a ship must be bound by the treaties, and the Captain, or the British public, must indemnify the parties. Lord BROUGHAM explained. Of course, any dispute under the treaties would form the subject of negotiation with the respective Governments. The Earl of WICKLOW thought there was great force in the objections taken to the Bill by the Noble Duke. The measure was not in a due and proper manner before the House. It ought to have been recommended by a Royal message. The Noble and Learned Lord had stated that the statement of a Member of that House, but especially of a Minister, was sufficient reason for legislation on the part of their Lordships—he did not agree in that opinion. Had their Lordships been aware of what would grow out of their resolution of a few nights ago, he thought they would have hesitated before they agreed to them in so hasty and informal a manner. It was true the Bill did not add to the powers of the Crown, but it gave powers which must lead to explanations which would prove very embarrassing to the country. A second and more serious objection might be remedied by confining the operation of the Bill to Portugal. But then other flags would be resorted to, and the slave trade would be carried on. If that were the case, the second provision of the Bill, calculated as it was to lead to incalculable mischief, must be retained, or the measure would be wholly ineffectual. Still though disapproving of the present measure, he was sincerely anxious to co-operate with the Government in any proper measure for the suppression of the slave trade. He protested, however, against its being considered that his professions were insincere, because he did not happen to agree on the plan which the Government chose to propose.— (Hear, hear.) And no desire for the attainment of the more desirable object, the abolition of the traffic in our fellow-crea tures, should induce him to assent to a measure which he be lieved would endanger the general peace, by producing jealou sies and dissensions among different nations.—( Hear, hear.) Lord COLVILLE said it was with pain he felt himself on this occasion compelled to vote in opposition to those with whom he usually had the pleasure to act, and against the Noble Duke, for whom he had the highest respect. He had hoped that there would have been no resistance to the Bill—(Hear, hear) and had imagined that after the address which had been unanimously agreed on by their Lordships, the Govern ment would have been supported in the means which they took for carrying it into effect. He could not help remarking that it was very injudicious to call on the Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty to divulge the orders of the Board, and he com plimented the Noble Lord more upon his candour than his pru denee.—( Hear, hear.) No doubt the Bill might have somo faults, but he had no doubt they would be amended in Commit tee. Ile had intended to rise to advocate the cause of those officers and men who, in obedience to the orders of the Admi ralty, might expose themselves to great hazard ; but their claims had been so ably stated by t. he Nuble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, and eloquently urged by the Noble and Learned Lord (Lord Denman) that he need not attempt to add anything to what they had Said. Those Noble and Learned Lords had stated that these parties were wholly unprotected—they could not examine into the constitutional considerations connected with any particular service—their duty was to obey orders. Was it not ungenerous, then, to leave them to be tormented by protracted law suits, instead of passing the close of their days in peace and comfort, and enjoying those domestic felicities from which they had so long been separated in foreign climes ?—( Hear, hear.) It was for the British Le gi lature to do everything they could to put an end to the slave trade as now existing ; and he trusted their Lordships would allow the second reading of the Bill, in order that such altera tions might be made in Committee as were deemed necessary. God forbid it should go forth to the world, that the House had refused to pass an Act of this description.-4 Cheers. ) Their Lordships then divided, when the numbers were— Contents Non-Contents Majority for the Bill POOR-LAW COMMISSION CONTINUANCE BILL_ The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved that the House re solve itself into Committee on this Bill. Earl STANHOPE would ask whether the Noble Marquis thought it decent—whether it would not be adding insult to the injuries already heaped on the people, to bring this question forward at this late hour of the night (a quarter past eleven) — a question involving se many important considerations, and which it was impossible he could allow to proceed a stage with out offering to it his decided opposition. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE considered this Bill to be of so simple a nature, it being merely a temporary Bill to con tinue the existence of the Poor-law Commissioners for one year longer, that it might proceed through the stage put down for to night. The Noble Earl might avail himself of this stage to state anything which he thought proper, and he would have another opportunity of stating his objections to the entire prin ciple of the Bill, in which he stood single. Lord WYNFORD said the Noble Earl did not stand single. He submitted that this was not a proper hour to discuss a Bill of this kind. The House then went into Committee. Lord STANHOPE considered it for the convenience of their Lordships to limit the discussion to the question imme diately before the House—whether the power of the Poor law Commissioners should continue for another year or not. Limiting himself to that which was strictly the purport of the Bill—he would say nothing as to the annihilation of that right of self-government which always existed in vestries—he would say nothing as to the appointment of what were called guar dians, or of the new prisons called " Union Workhouses," or of the starvation dietary—he would say nothing even of the rapid and enormous increase of rates under this Bill, and which would tend to the confiscation of property, but would confine himself merely to the appointment of the Commissioners, because the House had no right to transfer to them the power of making rates, orders, and regulations, which were to have the force and va lidity of law. The Noble Lord cited the authority of Black stone and Lord Bacon against giving unlimited, uncontrolled, and wholly irresponsible power to Commissioners. The rules of the Poor-law Commissioners were different in various places and not general, and those rules they had taken care should not be brought before Parliament. They had no desire to promulgate their laws, in short, they had desired that all the meetings of the Guardians should be se cret. They professed the public good while they had :no such object at heart—a greater set of despots he never heard of ; they had executed the law in a manner which was never intended. He would assume that their powers had been beneficially employed. Was that shown by the fact th a t upon inquiry the Home-Office learned that their powers could not be extended to the Manchester district without the aid of two or three regiments of soldiers? and the Home Secretary act ing prudently, and wisely thinking the best part of valour was discretion, paused in extending it so far, and it h a d not yet been introduced into that district. One great point made in favour of the Bill was the uniformity of the sys tem of administering the Poor-laws throughout the country • but had that been the result of the workin g of the Bill? Alas, ' n o, the result was as great a diversity as ever—the Commis sioners giving their sanction to various dietaries. That law had been the result of much c r ime , and was the supe r i n d uc i ng ca use of those dangers which now e p t e hd a a c et e p r Houseeocf a t t the acnteu t ho. h sete r r e pe a ep t o e ep n all e ee d .d th hH e y would r y u . l t in T a h t e e l y N e t w e P r o e o p r e - a l l a oerd v, pho i yle f i H on e e w ti o • u h l i d ch no c n ou ti l n d ue no a t pe b r! put conv d u o l w si onnbs,y either thatsoldiers would w severing opposition to the law under the banner of peace and order, as one which he thought violated all the rights of the people. He had now stated as briefly as he could the reason which n w n o n u o l p in d prroeinveisnintghimm neglecting opp fr o o sition h o to lievtnr thatgiv e thisno amendmentsth e mo s t would remedy the fundamental vier , .4 a measure subv,— , ive of the rights of the peopl e , an d passed by a House in which the EVENING EDITION.. were not properly represented. He moved that ,the Bill be read a second time that day three months. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was about to rise, when The Duke of RI CHMOND (one of the two or three Peers left) cried " Question, question !" on which the Noble Marquis resumed his seat, and _ _ . Lord WYNFoRD said, as the Noble Marquis was not dis posed to'speak, he would, though at this late hour (past twelve) make a 'few observations. He had objected originally to the appointment of the Commissioners, believing them unnecessary, considering their powers unconstitutional, and their authority most injudiciously subversive of local institution.. And the experience of the working of the measure which he had since acquired. had convinced him of the truth of his a priori be lief—that this attempt to correct the old and admitted abuses had quite failed. it had been said that the expense would be diminished. But would any Noble Lord now de clare that the expense had generally, materially been reduced? He was quite sure it was not.—( Hear, hear, from Earl Stan hope.) Nor had wages been raised—and that was the only way of raising the condition of the labourer. In no way bad it improved that class of the people. On the contrary, it had excited general discontent ; and the poor were never generally discontented without a cause This wide-spread discontent *as founded on a real conviction of the ill administration of the Poor-law. He did not say that the Legislature should bend to popular clamour—but in this case there was a just reason for the dissatisfaction of the people. The Commissioners were always wrong in their law, and in their law-suits were always defeated. They were nevertheless armed with the power of making laws—the most dangerous power that could be committed to any man. Their laws were un just, cruel, and oppressive. And as these laws would not, it was well known, be altered while the Commissioners were in power, he wished their powers to cease. The rigid prohibition of out-door relief to able-bodied labourers was a most unjusti fiable enactment. A horror of the workhouse would inevitably lower wages, disposing labourers to accept anything rather than undergo the infliction. These considerations would lead him to support the proposition of his Friend the Noble Earl. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he believed that the continuance of the authority of the Commissioners was necessary to maintain that new system of the Poor-law, which depended for its efficiency on the control of some central authority, to produce any thing like uniformity. It was from the convic tion that if the powers given to the Commissioners were sud denly withdrawn, those unions would cease to be formed that were now in the course of operation—those workhouses, that were of benefit to the parishes in which they were introduced could not be erected, and could not be brought into activity—( Hear, hear)—that a cessation of the salutary operations of the Poor-law Amendment Act would instantly take place, and that the war between the labourer and his employer, and the litigation between parish and parish for the purpose of endeavouring to throw burthens from one parish to another, which had degraded the poor, while at the same time it had crippled the exertions of the inde pendent labourer—it was from the conviction that all those calamities would take place, if the Act that had been brought into operation were suddenly discontinued, that the pre sent Bill had been introduced. (Hear, hear.)_ With respect to what had been said by the Noble and Learned Lord opposite (Lord Wynford) he would state that he was not prepared to admit that wages had in any degree diminished in consequence of the Poor-law Act.—,( Hear, hear.) On the contrary, he believed the wages of this independent labourer had been raised.—(Hear, hear.) The amount of the deposits in the savings banks had been increased, and last year there was an increase of more than 50,000 depositors, and above 1,800,0001. deposits in the savings banks ; and on the authority of Mr. Tidd Pratt he could state that that increase had taken place to a greater degree in the rural districts than in any other part of the country.—( Hear, hear.) Lord STANHOPE replied. . Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and their Lord- ships divided, when there appeared— Contents Non-Contents 2 Majority for going into Committee Their Lordships then went into Committee, and the whole of the clauses having been agreed to without amendment, their Lordships resumed, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. COLLECTION OF RATES BILL. _ The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved the second reading of this Bill. Earl STANHOPE wished to know the object of the Bill. The Marquis of LANDSDOWNE said the Bill was merely intended, without affecting local Acts, to carry into effect the original intention of the Poor-law Amendment Act. The Bill was read a second time. The Earl of STANHOPE moved for some returns relative tothe New Poor Law.—Ordered . Their Lordships adjourned at a Quarter-past One. SPORTIN G 1N TELLIGENCE. TATTERSALI7S—YESTEUDAT. ST. LEGER. 3 to 1 agst Bloomsbury—taken 3 to 1 agst Major Yarburg's Charles the Twelfth 9 to 1 agst Mr. Thornhiil's Euclid 18 to 1 agst Mr. Bowes's Hetman Platoff—taken 20 to 1 agst Marquis of Westminster's Lord Mayor 2.1 to 1 agst Mr. Golden's The Diver 30 to 1 agst Easingwold 30 to 1 agst Col. Cradock's The Provost 35 to 1 agst Lord Lichfield's The Corsair 1000 to 10 agst Mr. G. Clarke's Dragsman—offered THE CUP. 3 to 1 agst Mr. Ferguson's Harkaway—taken A thin room and very little betting. LEE RACES-THu It SDAY. The Borough Stakes of 5 sous. each, and twenty-five added, for horses of all ages. Heats twice round and a distance. The winner to be sold for 801., &c. Mr. Coleman's b g Stag, aged, 9st (Coleman, Jun.) 1 1 Mr. Becher's f Pelisse, - 3 yrs, 7st Mr. Finche's b h Brockampton, 4 yrs, Bst, 41b 2 3 Mr. Smith's ch h Pedlar, 4 yrs, 9st, 3lb Mr. Bacon's ch g Forester, 3 yrs, 7st 4 dr First heat won by three-quarters of a length, and the second cleverly. The Hunters Stakes of three sovs. each, with 20 added from the fund, for all horses not thorough bred, twice round and a distance, over six leaps, &c., were won in two heats by Mr. Gibb's Edmund, 5 yrs., llst., beating Mr. Theobald's Blue Ruin, 5 yrs., I Ist. 71b., by a length. A Free Handicap, once round and a distance, and won in. two heats by Blue Ruin. WOLVERHAMPTON RACES-WEDNESDAY. The Wrottesley Stakes of 10 sovs. each, with 20 sovs. added. from the Fund, for three and four year olds. Once round. Four Subs. Alf. Fowler's br. c. Profligate, 3 yrs, ist. 41b. (Dodgson) 1 Lcrd Stanley's br. c. Charlatan, 3 yrs, 7st. 41b . 2 Mr. Copeland's gr. c. Vertumnus, 4 yrs, Bst. 71b. 3 Betting-2 to lon Profligate—and 4to 1 agst Vertumnus. Wonin a canter. . __ .. . . ......... Ircod:lWStakes of 30 sovs. each, 20 ft., for foals of .1836 ; colts, Bst. 61b. ; and fillies, Bst. 31b. Once round. 6 subs. Mr. T. Walter's ch. c. Sir Mark, Bst. 61b. (Marlow) 1 Captain Land's br. c. Speed, Bst. 61b. Mr. Gifford's ch. c. by Langor, d. Kalmia Mr. Fowler's b. c. Lepidus, Bst. 6Ib. Betting-7 to 4 agst Sir Mark-2 to 1 agst Speed--3 to 1 agst the Langar colt—and 3to 1 agst Lepidus. Won by two lengths. The Holyoake Stakes of 20 sovs. each, 10 ft., with the Stand Purse of 50 sovs. added; the second saved his stake. Twice round and a distance. Thirty-seven subscribers, twenty-two of whom declared. Duke of Richmond's ch. f. Confusionee, 3 yrs, 6st. Lord G. Bentinck's b. c. Ratsbane, 4 yrs, 7st. 91b. ...... Lord Eglintoun's br. h. St. Bennett, 5 yrs, 9st. The following also started, but were not placed : —Mr. Gif ford's ch. g. Traveller, aged, 7st 12ib.—Mr. Bowes's ch. h. Epirus, 5 yrs, Bst. 111b.—Lord Miltown's ch, c. Leprechaun, 3 yrs, sst 41b.—Mr. Davison's ch. f. Primefit, 4 yrs, 6st. 101 b. --Captain Lamb's Kitty Cockle, 5 ) . rs, 7st. Betting.-7 to 4 against Confusionee, 4to 1 against St. Ben- nett, 6to I against Ratsbane, 6 to 1 against Epirus, 6 to 1 against Primefit, 10 to 1 against Traveller ( who broke down), and 15 to 1 against Leprechaun. Won cleverly by a length. The Himley Park Stakes of 5 sovs. each, with 25 added, for the beaten horses of the Meeting. Heats, once round (5 subs.) Capt. Taylor's b. c. Chatterer, 3 yr 5......( Birkbeck) 3 1 1 Mr. E. Peel's gr. c. Saul, 4 yrs., Bst. 1 2 2 Lord G. 13entinck's ch. h. Ratsbane, 4 yis, Bst 2 3 dr , Betting.-5 to 2on Ratsbane. First heat won by three quarters of a length, the second by a length,•and the third by a length. VAN DIEMEN ' S LAND.—The Revenue Ab stract for the December quarter is published : Revenue Expenditure— Civil .R18,974 _ £29,552 Judicial Ecclesiastical Military Miscellaneous 3,208 j Exhibiting an excess of expenditure over revenue of 4,9001., or near twenty th ousan d poun d s per annum , with a taxation, levied upon 8,000 householders, of near one hundred and twenty thousand pounds per annum, and an expenditure upon an establishment maintained for the Government of such a handful of people, of near one hun dred and twenty thousand pounds per annum. One com ment will suffice ; nothing like it was ever heard of before upon the face of the earth !—yet are there daily manufac turings of fresh places !—gentlemen upon gentlemen " to be provided for !!! ! !" Can this last ? Captain Forster is appointed Colonial Secretary vice Captain Montagu, gone to England on leave, to whom the Lieutenant-Gover nor pays the high compliment so justly his due. Mr. Spode is appointed C. P. M ; Mr. W. Gunn, Principal Superintendent; and Mr. IL Gunn, to the charge of the Penitentiary.—Murray's Austral Asiatic Review. PRIZE CUPS.—New and Second-hand SILVER iPRIZE CUPS are offered at very REDUCED PRICES, and tsele/tion may be made from a great variety, both of Sizes and Patterns, at T. COX SAVORY'S, Goldsmith, and Watch 'maker, 47, Cornhill, London ( Seven Doors from Graceehurch street).—Drawings of Cups will be forwarded in answer to a post-paid application. N.B. It is desirable Letters for Drawings should mention either the size or about the price of the Cup or Cups that may be required. SHEFFIELD PLATED WINE COOLERS A. B. SAVORY and SONS, Manufacturing Silversmithsr 14, Cornhill, London (opposite the Bank of England), have fo choice in their warerooms a Selection of PLAIN and ORNA. MENTAL ICE PAILS, to which they wish-to direct attention, The price of the Plain Tub-pail (now much in use), 8/. 10s. the pair ; the Classic Vase (very neat), 10/. Bs. the pair; the Victoria Pattern, 15/. the pair ; the Dresden Cooler 191. the pair, &c., a ll o f wh i c.. are strongly m.nted with Silver, and have Silver Shields for Engraving the Crest or Coat of Arras. A pamphlet is published, with drawings of the above and other articles of plate generally, which may be had en applica tion, free of cost. DIED. On the 13th inst., at Kennington-common, Surrey, Mary, relict of the late Thomas Cockshutt, Esq., o f the Stock Ex change, aged 81. On the 20th of February, at Whampoa (near Canton) , Henry Thomas Yates, Esq., second officer of the ship Lord William Bentinck, and youligest son of the late Joseph Yates, Esq., of Peel-hall, Lancaster. On the 4th inst., at his Vicarage-house, Butleigh, Somerset, the Rev. Francis Lunn. On the 10th inst., at Putney, Sir John St. Aubyn, of Clew ance, Cornwall, Bart., aged 82. At Wilton-place, Nlr. Richard Elliott, aged 86. Mr' Elliott, was the last surviving member of those who instituted the Druids Society, 60 years since, which now extends to all parts of the world, and numbers more than 1,000,000 of members. London: Printed and Published by IIURY) . O YOUNP. of strand, at ?'be Sur Offi ce . N r ,. )1 ), strpnd, the county of 2.liduie.e.s..—in,,ay, August 16, iz