The Sun. — London, England, 1803-08-05 00:00:00

IMPERCAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS, THURSDAY, AUCIM 4. Ti;g Bills upon die Table were re a d i n t h e i r several stAges ; among which the Vote of Credit, anti the Woollen , MantdAurers' Bills, were read a third time.anti pawd., On die “ce3sion of the second reading of the Lieome Tax Bill, The Duke of NORFOLK took the opportunity to make a . few olisertations on the subject. lie sa id, t he was of NO voluminous a nature that he coultl wit go thrnugh the whole: he wished that some analysis of it were nude, As that the men . sure might he more clearly and compendiously br4lusht under the view of their Lordships. One provisi!ni pireicularly - struek him as ob. jeninnable, namely, Ne exemption in favour of the Creditors of Government. It was tot his inten. tion to take up the time of their Lordships with a detail of htsopinions a.; to the measure ; he should probably tronhli the Committee on the Bill, and. propose an Amendment to obviate the objeftion which he alluded to. • TIT Rill was then read a second time, and corm. mined for to-morrow.' The Bristol Harbour fill was returned by Mr. BR AGOE from the Commons, who had agreed to the amendments made hy.their Lordships.. The Curates Provision 13111 was brought up from the Common , ' by Sir W. SCOTT and others.. On the queitinn for the first reading of ,this , The LORD CHANCELLOR quitted the Wool.; sack, and submitted a proposition to their Lord. ships, which in some degree might he held to afrea a Standing Order of that House. A degree of dif. Acuity presented itself on the first view of this Bill, which arose from the contemplation of a !Ong Stand. ing Order which militated against a grant of money being appended to Bills which went to provide for other distina objefts. The Bill in question. had a tWo.fold objet, the one was to arnelio,rate generally the situation of that very ortitotious class of the Clergy, the Curates; and the second was to create 3 .. provision for sucbCurates out of the C onso lid a ted to a certain amount, as should be deprived of their Cores in copsequenee of the operatiOns of the late Att for enforcing kesidence. Such was the gen' rat efTect of the Bill and with a reference to the Order be alluded to, it had struck him in the way he had mentioned. He thought it his duty to make these observations ',However, it lay entirely with the House' to decide how far the Btll , untkr but h a coosidetation, was objectionable. . The Earl of SUFFOLK expressed his approba. tiOn of a' meihure which , went to ameliorate the condition of the Cutates, and lie hoped that it would he properly carried into effect. BY the pre. sent Law, he nnderstood, ;it was iii the power of the Bishop to order a salary to the Curate ot 701. . a year, 100 yet so far from this being done, Ise k new nonyierless instance where the stipend did eon eXeeekt 3 01. or O. With respect to ,the pro. posed proVistun f tr the illonisi.ed Citrates our of the Consolidated Fund, the Noble Earl seemed to en. terrain no objection. The Dike of lOkFOLK, after shortly alluding to what hail fallen iron) the Noble Lord on the Woolsack,' ropeCting the effect tif one rof their Lordships' Standiog Orders, and expressing his Opi. "thin that the Bill involved no question tat privilege bet wt en tl:etwo Houses, went on to observe, that by, the powers given under the Bill, to inerelse the sripenthi Ott COT.I. V% to such an amount, the value o f such ailvos4 so c, &c. would be seriou'ly afkird ; this, an a (petition of ilopert y, he thought me. cited serious consid, rat t tn. l'he Noble Duke ati• vetted to the I , c me of certain great Livings, „s Wintliek, in LMICAShire, and a few wh e t. * i n t h e Isle of Ely, in which the scale, as he under.tood it, would be so.high as seriiindy to have the eff:d he mentioned. Hit Grace argued this point somewhat in detail: it li,lng,.however, olyerved by some ot their Lordships, that the Noble Duke had miscon. cei , ed that part of the Bill, the same was vatt by the Cielk, when it appeared, as we could collet}, that the highest stipend which the Bishop was bound by the Dill to a ppropriate, was nob ,per annum. This ,seemed, in some degree, to obviat e iris Grace's objettior. . Th e LORD CHANCELLOR, in answer to .what tell from.the Noble Duke observed, upon the stature of . the Lay Patronage, &c. the time was not very retinae when such things were regarded in a very different tight by the eye of'the Law, from that in which` they were at present ; by recent de. eisions however, and as the Law now stood, the consideratituis alluded to by tirct:Nohle. Doke were certainly a species of property, were in riots of view, regoded as Assets, and were considered As saleable even .as the ,corn.'sent to market.— ' This, In some points of .StieW, his Loe„lslity 6eem. ed to nrtt , SiCtet, as nialt,er of regiet Ile ob. e served' upon the limit prrserihed by the Bill, of 2501. as the highest salary it e &Atop was hound to ap. prop:tale, and to a certain s , xtent, must d o aw.ty the applicability of , the Njble Doke. In answer to What tell from the Noble F.stt , he had only to observe, that Certainly by the existin g , l aw , 'the Bishop had a poster ot orikring a salary sit 701. unourn to the Curate, but 1611 if w as o h mio, the Bishop would 11111',e a Milt litifigistentiti of hat powtr, if he or& red the Lull all cat s; f'r it Was well known that a nand" ut b e nefices in this country %Ale SO low 75 t„ of Vol. therefore 701. a year Cou ld lit --conscience he appropriated. to the Curate thereof, With respeti, to a due carrying at the measure into efftd, file L eg i s lattne vi ere doing every thing in their powe r for that description of the Clergy, it was impossible however, to tie up the hands of `tarries ht) tfr try tit prevent dick making pivot batgaios,. with resped to stipends to 'he aditally pail for the 'performitece of dozy ; and this observation INOUl t i nvi lly with still renter force, did the ant tint of the stipeiltlii tut .00 high is the Noble Duke at first seemed to think 44$ authorised by the hill, srh e E mu , o f s u e t o LK F p , 1, , e explanntion, as did the Duk , 2 01 Nosxut.K, who °Witt ved,_. the limit prescribed by the Bill, to a certain extent ob. viated his objedions. His Grace reptNlted some of his former observations respetting the nature and j effed of ativowsons. The Lotto CHANCELLOR spoke shortly in ei . planation, atter \ which the Bill was read a first time. The Earl SUFFLOK rose, and said he had to call their Lordships' attention to considerations of the highest importance, inasmuch as more or less they respeEted the general Defence of the Country. His Lord Ship alluded , in the first instance to the, state of the Army of Reserve, tespeding which he had in vain made inquiries, while in the Country, as to the raising, disciplining, officering, and in fad, the means adopted to render that force.efficient for its avowed purposes. One of his objedts in coming to town, was to gain information on these topics, and he expressed his hope of seeing Mi. nisters in their places on a future day, to afford the necessary explanations as to those points. The next consideration which he adverted to, was the appointment of a Military Council, an idea which he believed he had the honour of originally suggest. ins. This subjeCt he understood was recently brought forward in another House of. Parliament, and indeed it was one of that importance as to be again worthy the serious consideration of their Lordships. The third c.'nsideration was,.what had been done by the City of London toward, the gene._ ral defence of the Corintry. . He had on a tonne( occasion stated his ideas pretty much at -large on that head, as to the degree of assistance the Metropolis was capable of affording, and what it was iii c om. bent upon it to do. He had received several letters on that subjeet, one of which was then in his pus. session, but he - would at this time only say, that were , the contents of those letters true, which,, however, he was then unable to say Whethei or not, the Metropolis did not come fOrward at it ought to do, and therefore, that blame :it. tached to it. He was aware of the very aibraneed ,period of the Session, , yet he was so imptested with the importance of these consider lola that he should take an opportunity, before the Prt►toogation C Par liament, to bring forward those subj is again to the consideration of their ; .Lordships, and to sub. mit some propositions thetton. The Order of the Day being read, for giving . udgment on the Scotch Appeal, M4Lean gu, Be. hope, The LORD CMANCELLOR quitted the Wool. sack, and addressed their Lordships at considerable length. upon the subjett. Fie concluded wit mo. i gig a proposition, tending in the main to reverse the decree, and at the same time remit ling certain points connected. with • the case -fur further consideration, &c. • The further consideration of the Appeal, Craw_ Curd v. Coutts, was adj )urned till to-morrow as was that of Ogilvie v. the Carron Company, on the special suggestion of the Len CH ANC.4 LLO who a , ,sigtied l.ts reasons for bliCle a procedure. Ordered to be postponed until the first Cause day in the next Session of Parliament.—Adjuurned till to.rnorrow. HOUs F. OF COMMONS, 'rtiu ithi? , Atlouta tetml Amlie,rat's , AnnUity- Bill, the Wine Prize Bill, and the Lavaca Army of Reserve Bill, went through a Committee, and the Repo st i were order. ed to , he brou ht up to.morrow. General MAIYLAND moved fat a nes. Writ to be issued for. the elation of a M em be r f or Ki nross , i n the ra`m ot General Clepita ne , w h o h a* accepted the Office of. Governor of Grenada..--Ordered. The ikeport of the Committee tin 44 Bell Rock, Light House Bill, was bro ug h t up , an d a f ter a l ong con% ersa 'inn between Mr. STANIFORTH, the LORD MA`t , R, 41derman CUlals, Mr, WtNDUAM, Sir WM. I'OLTENRY, and several other Hon, Members, ow the merits of the Bid, and the Ameedments read, the ,House. divided on an original Clause of. the Bill, enforcing the payment of three halfpence per ton on the Ships passing the Light House. For the Clause . . Against it . . . 2+ Ordered to be laid before the House an Account of the quantity of F ish brought i n to- the Lond on Market for the three last years, distinguishing the quantity of each yeaG' , , The Irish Glebe 'l-I , iusi Bill passed through a Committee of the whole House, arid the Report or. &l ed tn'be received to.murraw. The House weer into a committee on the Na. tional Defence Amendment Bill, The SioarrAzy 'at WAR informed the Corn. mittee that he should propose some Clauses on the third reading of the Bill to.morrow. BRAGOB proposed a Clause to exempt a re. ligious sett called Muravians from rite power oldie Bill. He observed, that this body of religious petsors Were'acknOwletiged by an Mt of the.pre. sent King, and therefore entitled to the indulgence granted to Quakers by the present Billy . Mr. WILBERFORCI made several general re. marks on the merits, of the Bill, and the nature of t h e s ervice it went to enforce, and observed that it " was his wish that Ministers should not by the pre " s ent Dill entirely rise sight of the }lower the first Sill gives them, of calling out the full force of the Country. He, however, had :no objection to the Bill now tinder consisleratitin, but thought it his duty to make a remark to that effea. Mr. YORkE observed, that tle present Bin did not deprive His Majesty of the,nrcessary power to call out all his Subjritts. which the first BM granted, him it only Wellt to allow His Majesty to sus p en d the force of the Mt when the voluntary service was equal to the ex i ge n c y o f the -times. The present Bill, therefore, only goes to this, that if the Volun leers amounted to three-fotirilis of the first Class of Persons Able to bear arms, His Majesty should have diberethinary power to suspenthheather part of rthe Bill. During the discussion on the former Bill, the number of persons required by His Majesty was not tocrittoot-d. He, however, had, no objecti o n to state, that the numb er o f the ,VOlunterra already produced was 240,000 being six times the number , of the. old Militia. He thought ir, however, right to repeat, that thi s d u e s n o t prevent Hi s I\+ol front increasing the \tolontarp Farce of. the Court. try if it should be thought necessary. Mr.WILBERFORCE ocplained, and observed that he did not oppose th,e Bill, , The SECRETARY at WAR atliti, Mat die 29th Clause of the first Bill precisely states, that His Majesty can call out any number of persons, and en, force the enrolment of all his Subjects,' Mr. WINDHAM, after some remarks on . the Public Prints, obsetved, he could not suffer the pre. sent Bill to pass without making. a few obseria. ! titans on the' nature of the Force raised by the for. mer Bill, which the present measure is intendedto attend. He expedid from the letter of the Bill, that, persnns Of every description were to he treat. ed alike, and go out together in order to acquire a knoWledge of arms to defend their Country. But he tvas s ry Id observe, that persons formed them selves into 'Volunteer Corps upon the BAtile plan as they had•done last ,War. The Bilt, therefore, had not been carried into its proper Oreft ; in his mind 'the Bill intended that persons of every description. should mix with each other in learning the use of, arms, but now there were two specks of voluntary service, that raised on the plan of the last War:' and the one, now raising, Which divided the poor la. pourer from .the man of property. He, for One, had an objeaion to such a t division at this moment, and consequently could not approve of the present Volunteer Corps, while they were separated from the lower orders of the people. .. Mr. SHERIDAN said, that , after the mar) , opi. nions that had been given by the Right Hon. Gen« tieman uron this subject, after the variety of semi. ients which he had at one titneadvanced and at another tetraded—after having wavered so Ire.. quently frotn one opinion to another, certainly some allowance ought to be made for Ministers, who had taken time maturely to, consider this important sub. jeet bet.are they brought it forward, in order that they might not fall into that inconsistency which hid so peculiarly marked the language - of the Right Hon. Geoileman. He wae'. he contessett, a little to hear t h e R4OIEHon. Gentleman con. Less that he had derived some, information from the Public Press; but at the same time he did not expect to hear`the Daily Papers now charged with being filled with execrable stuff, because he was sure that however high the public energy might be' at this m :mend, however anxious all ranks of men might be to stand tarward upon this occasion, yet he would say, that to no quarter did the Country owe greater obligations at this crisis than it did to the Pnbtic Press. The Right Hon. Gentleman's indignation, however, he supposed, was only confined to the Daily Pipets ; there might he supposed, ohs Week& ,Journal of which the Right' Honourable Gentleman's opinion was wore favourable, whether its' arms were employed in endeavouring ttiex. cite Sedition in the Navy, whether it endeavour ed to run down Majesty's Ministers, at whether it was,employed in exaggerating the dan. gers,' or depressing the spirit of the People ; all this the_ Might ,Hon. Gentleman did not, appear to consider as execrable stuff; perhaps the Right Hon. Gentleman's partiality to that Weekly Journal might arise from his having some reason to suppose that it occasionally received assistance from higher, Quarters than the Daily Papers. He certainly spoke of that Journal without prejudice,' because liesoM& times found in it, observations of an adMitable quality-.-(Here Mr. "WlNLittistst nodded assent.]-- The Right lion.,•Gentleman l i e saw botwed, a nd therefore he presumed, took the last observation as a personal compliment .to himself. The - Right Honourable Gentleman had now changed his ground of attack against this measure, and he now corn:. plained that it would prOdOce too many Volunteersq and his first objeaion was, that it was calculated only to produce compulsory Force. There, was indeed no species of Force which 'the Right Hon: Geetleman had not attacked, except the Regular - Artily. The Militje, the Supplementary' Matti' , the Artily of Reserve, the Yeomanty'Cavalry,.oe Volunteers' had been 'frequently attacked by the Right Hon. Gentleman, certainly not always, because the Right Hon., Gentleman seemed to think, that from long habit he had acquired a prescriptive right of wavering—indeed it was ;aright which he seem ed desitous of entirely monopolizing to himself. It Was stated by a Right Hon. Gentleman, whose opinitio W . tis of great weight in that HouSe that the Foree'to be raised 'under this Bill ought to' be forrried into Companies, to be marched in case of necessity to fill up vacancies-in Regiments of . the Line and Militia. He by no means agreed' in this, because it would - , in his opinion, defeat the purposes ''of the Bill. Many peopleivoUld be much astonish. ed,;-Peers, Members of Parliament, Merchants, and • others, to fluid thetnselVes in one month converted into common Soldiers; yet that was the case in that con_ struCtion of the Hilt; so that every man who was not in a Volunteer Corps would be liable to be made 'a common Soldier. ''This, he thought, was a pretty good hint to ii i eople to volunteer th e i r s er v i ces , an d lie liked the the better for it ; because no man could draw a comparison between a Corps of Vo lunteers, diseiplined and actuated by the spirit that the Volunteers now were, and men drilled as thry would be under this Bill. Let any man look at the Volunteer Corps of Si, George's, St. James's, the Westminster, and the other Corps of this f0W . 11 . , and lay 'whether they were, not infinitelY superiOr to meo raised and drilled under this Bill. The Ri g h t Hon. Gentleman, howver, oislikedl Voltiniiir Corps, because it would occasion a kind 'of sells ration between different Classes; and had stated that farmers and persons of that description who were in . Volunteer Co r p s , wou ld not like t o leave their hurries for a long tittle. But the' Right Hon. Cattleman must recolleft,,that in case of actual In. vasion they would be obliged to leave their homes, Whether they werein Volihiteer Corps or not ; se quently the Right' Hun. Gentleman's objection could have no weight. The Right Him, Centlzman: then complained, of a disrin4tion in rank, but this Bill made no such distinCtion, because if Country. men and Peasants voluntarily enrolled tireirisOves they wou ld b e exempted from the operatioii of this Bill. In krge Cites, truth as London, Notting ham, Norwich, and others, if a large 'Volunteer force could be collets(' without interfering with the industry of the place, he thought it ought to be referred, and, lit Would give no other teason Tor it. A doubt tad liven entertained whether* when lig °Ter or the Volumed. Corps was accepted, those who composed it Might not be put _in the same situation as itthcy had not entered the Corps, but right l m l Co i t his nn d dt trinttlt amendment t h a d it al y quid the eHouse generallycompletely o f done L o ki s a o, t i v va a nn ) ,. , i h t c w‘ a tai n : equal to the three-fourthsTt i he nga l first to he called out, and so s uperior in discipline, that' he •reitilv hoped i t would not be necessary to cam i:o iracses echo . ho ne a tly..v,,er : t - ite Bill into area. The three fourths of the fine class it was supposed would amount to 300,000, and the Volunteer Force, exclusive of every other de scription of Troops, he understood amonoted to zBo,ooo men. He was convinced, however, that , we ought not to suspend our (forts while aoythir4 i'etnained to be done ; we ought not to all Wilt tt view to the present danger alone* bn,t most rnok forward to the utmost calamity and disgraai if «e re; xeti in our efforts. Our carts ought not to he coined to ourselves alone, we ought to look 'to Ireland, and though every man must rejoice 'at the termination oldie disgraceful scenes which had happened there,. yet we ought to ad as if it might became possible to send the whole. of our disposable force to that 'Country. Upon all these grounds l ie was of opinion that no objeaion could be made to the present Bill. Mr. WlNDilifilf n e g ti u r p l e ti m n a t n he ac s c u ti t sj e t a l h inconsistency ien l l 'at s t wh c e s and w n,ti'e wavwaver- of this Bill, he ought roltail recolleded that. he (Mr. Wirsortass) I eig-are. • t . - hit approbatioh ofVolunteer-Sery ice in gencralia not of Volunteer. Corps. The Honourable Gill.- tleman seemed to be actuated with all the zeal of a new Convert, 'or rather he condutied self with, all the precipitancy of a raw Recruits for he had no sooner fallen into the ranks (Mr. Silt ittoan sat on the Treasury Beoch,) than lie firedog Iris musket t without waiting for the word of com mand ; as the Hon: Gentleman however began, he must not be surprised to find his fire war ned.' If it were even true that he had changed his opinion, upon this Willed, ( srhich was not. the case,f it set tainly would have been excusable upon a measure so much importance, embracing such a variety of. detail, and passed with so much precipitation. It was. therefore not only possible, but very natural, that Gentlemen might change their opinion upon the ' stibjed—But this would aff.rd no excuse to Minis ters. fur bringing forward at so late a period, or foe making that the last measure which ought to have been the first. It should have been recolle.deds that this measure took up a great deal of dine It was like the seven ages of man ; there woo the notice, she motion for the Bill, the first, Sr' c psi, anti third reading of the Bill, and after that there was the whole of the detail of its execution in theeouotry. The whole country wis in as grea t a bustle as if it was a race or an assize-week. Ther e was. County-meetings, Meetings of Lieutenst4its Magissrates, Churchwardens, Overseers, Sec. ma c ' lhere was . the Tything.man and the Constable ,running to the Schoolmaster to read the Bill, the Sehool.master going to the Magistrate to explain it, the Magistrate writing to the Secretary at War to elucidate it, and the. Secretary at War coming to tliel-100se of Commons to amend it. B ut in ;11144 bu lead sil s o d ier easlldir6nsfrtdOliy t o seek honour , how e long on wo r nuild theit cbe we a mouth ? Whatever effed sill this might have here after, it would do nothing at present. Would it be a goad answer if Bonaparte were to land, 0 say, 64 We have County.meetings, and balloting , and drillings, and if you will have the goodnes s wait a short time, we shall be quite prepared for you ?" The Hon. Gentleman had spoken hieir of the exertions of the Daily Papers ; theY,cr, r ' • tainly did contain some good sentiments ; he eel wished they had began a little sooner, at least some of them, and then,they .would not have no - se to te*' pair the mischief which they had been doing for sir many, years,. and which he was afraid could not be repaired by a few paper bullets. It was not s how,' ever, astonishing that the Papers to which h e hi r hided should become the obj!as oi the Hor:mob° Gentleman's panegyric, for they had exaCtly follow' ed example.. After years of War, in veil he and they had possessed opposite principles: °' of A s held Opposite language to those of the insjo: the Country, they now wheeled- shddenly.ah,;' ,l ! and claimed great merit for doing; their 'ditty."'" After ten years of War, in which the 1-lontinrabl° tier l ; e),li n xthta h inm a ing dby his o rations almost' set the foot; I G s q: : :: ;. : ,d ,n iv r e : i trs of the world on fire, he mitt; came at ( ' the eof td.tgratiou . littley o uish tnhlissb• bucker, i t l y a m t banlll sutee The Han. Gentleman had aituded to a WerIJY, Journal of which he Was. stlpposed ,to h +ye a opinion : of, the perk,. ri who conduk;ted that J•IL, 03 1 he had a high opinion ion betore he kne W tit ilto rull‘e'vl;;'atdlpierinhc4idp!de7 America , . , suppo,r;lng alt those, good pro l c i P les i ti l m6lvl , ; lll h_appitte , s_ of mankin4 tleoe s n•led; Gent) man formerly professed) which tcodttl the found 'thins of Civil Society, and to deStrof 1 "/T i ' le s s ' of mankind. was, therefore will' 11 ; fur untiorito (including those whien the t to coofess that he did enter twin a very high 01),_ 1 . 6 1 0/ of she person alluded to,' and he really t ought t he was tmitied to a Statue of Gold t.tr l le then adverted to the distittaiott he It s d taken, bet ~ .veen Volunteer Corps and tit r' eat Vo'hutliary Fotce which he wished to . s?': forth; and added, that there was pottliitg deprecated so much as that of seeing the '`. l ', o Force of the Country converted into Volaill4 'Corps, t its Mr. ssakip s i.V said, 1;e gia4 , circumstance of the Hs:the being in a .C° l ' l ,l o o. enabled him to return thanks' to the Right_ iii Gentleman for the - compliment he had pai d ' l ','„ -f s et supposing hilts to . be of sufficient consequeoc,..Y.„ss: the whole world on fire—The Right man had said, that he aEted with the zeal ! co os convert : He' begged to ask in what Was ''' ts o l eot lie conceived his Country to be in versed ? Was it a new line for him to tik e ' ' tc'6oo) forward, uninfluenced by little party consider7xli and without Calling out to be made a• l at 9 1 , sit daogerp Administration ? W. it new for - ilim I° be o i ese 4° vocate for the Press ? The Right lion. 9Fn