The Sun. — London, England, 1845-06-24 00:00:00

I nction tl ist which had been confided to him, for the sake of a foolish ! oke. Ile would say that if he were in the position of the Noble anti Learned Lord, and hal made a statement with respect to mat'ers that had been confided to him. w hich he thought fit to divulge, and that he would In explanation make it appear that authority had been given to him to act in the manner he had, he thought he should not gain much credit by allowing him to subjected to any lifong imputations. ° The reasJn why h had given u the s e Iltil s was, becauie it had been so sugge e ‘ted by the ho p n. and Learned Member for Cork. He (Mr. O'Connell) well knew that he had never, by any base or servile adulation, co mmitted himself in a n y wa y. He w a s we ll a.:!- t luainted with the whole course of his political career since he had entered Parliament, and that he would exercise t he fuir and legitimate use of his oan judgment upon all c i, l lestions co nnec t e d w ith I re l an d. He knew also that the tast act of his public life was not to give in his adhesion to the Principles which were promulgated from Conciliation-hall. ( Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances, he might beat liberty, to ask whether he was to labour under the charge of !laving committed a breach of confidence by way of a , 00lish PA*, or was he to look down in slavish obedience to the dictum of the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork ? prepared to make no concession whatever. Having answered all the questions, he thought he should now be but performing his duty in moving that the House do go into Committee on the Bill. On the question that the Speaker leave the Chair, Lord J. RUSSELL said that he did not quite understand the mode in which the professors were to be appointed, whether the clause should be left open for the future consideration of Parliament, or whether Government had determined on some present mode of filling up these offices? Sir J. GRAHAM was obli g ed to the N o ble L or d f or h av i ng reminded him of thi s point. He thought it would be desirable to leave the point open until perhaps 1848, with the view of 3acaring the opinion of Parliament after they should have had experience to guide them on the subject. He would read the 10th clause of the Bill if the House would allow him, and he thought it would be sufficient to satisfy the inquiry of the Noble Iserd.—( The Right Hon. Baronet then read the clause re ferred to.) t'iscoont MAHON then rose to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice, that in the establishment of colleges in Ireland, provision should be made for the religious instruction of the pupils, by means of lecture fees, till such time as private benefactions for that object may have taken effact. He admitted the integrity of the motives by which the present measure had been actuated, hut believed that the in trodection of spiritual and secular education should be simul taneous, and that without this no system of education whatever would be valuable or efficacious.—( Hear, hear.) In the 15th cause, it was provided that any person might bequeath land for securing the benefit of religions instruction in the institution, and Clause C and its amendments effected similar contingent provisions ; but how could any reliance be placed upon such an uncertainty, or how could the House say that any bequests would be made for those purposes ? The deeendence on contingencies of private capital was not such a basis as this mess-ire ought to rest on.--( Hear ) If it could, however, be even proved that these anticipations would ever tike place, he tor one should still object to the precedent of thus endowinse colleges, as it m i g h t su b sequently be applied to locali ties or circumstance s where no su'h contingency existed. In what way must the student receive the advice of hit tutor ? "Astronomy is of great importance; there is a skilful pro fessor, attend his lectures, and acquire a knowledge of the science. Mathematics also must be carefully learned; and medicine, too, for which there is another skilful professor ; but as to religion, learn it anywhere, or nowhere, or not at all." That may not be the meaning intended by the House, but it was that which the pupils would universally and naturally put upon the system. By the 15th clause no student was compelled to at end any theological lectures or re -1 gious instruction. To such a provision he unequivocally ob jested, and though the amendment brought forward in a good spirit would go far to remove the objection, that was no reason why the Government or the House should not go further. On a former occasion it had been stated by his Right Hon Friend at the head of the Government, that even religious difference, would prevent religious education being sanctioned by any Act of the State. There could be no doubt that it must be a great advantage for students to have the opportunity of acquiring secular learning with all the splendid discoveries of science and art, but as far as religious instruction was con cerned the pupils would be left totally unprovided for, and re moved entirely from the cautious superintendence of parental care, exposed to the inculcation of any strange doctrine. With reference to that part of the subject he would call the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Govern ment to a letter which he had received from Dr. Cahill, in which he pointed out, not by mere guess, but from positive re ferences, that it was very usual for professors, elen when talking on abstract subjects, to indulge themselves in remarks which had a decidedly religious tendency. The inference he would draw from this was that the advantages to be derived from secular learning were not to be diminished, but that the pupil, in conjunction with these benefits, should have every opportunity of enjoying religious instruction. The Right Hon. the Secretary of State had contended that the system of policy now proposed was founded on the same principles as those on which the National schools of Ireland were based. He had heard that statement with great surprise from a Minister so well acq ua i n t e d w i t h Irish affairs as hi s Right Hon. Friend. Setting aside the consideration whether the system had worked well or ill, advantageously or adversely. it was certain that, notwithstanding no regular general system of religious instruction was professedly taught, a portion of re ligious education was insisted on and taught in those schools. In showing the design and intention of the National schools of Ireland, he could not find words that would batter illustrate that than those which were used by the Minister at the head of affairs, when that measure was first proposed in another place. Earl Grey, on the 22d of March, 1832, stated that, if they were to have a system of National education for Ireland, it must not exclu.le the Roman Catholics. who constituted the great part of the population of Ireland. To meet this difficulty, he (Lord Grey) said, though the indiscriminate use of the Bible would not be permitted, instead of that, on certain days of the week, in addition to literary instruction, extracts from the Bible, in which all parties were agreed, would be used as a school-book. It could net, therefore, be said that Earl Grey excluded the Bible. That Noble Lord's description of the National system was, that it.' was to be a system of education of which reli gon should necessarily form a part.--( Hear, hear.) If he (Lord NI, hon ) were to state his views of a system of educa tion not for England, for Scotland, or for Ireland, but adapted for all countries and all ages, he could not better express him self than in the language of a Noble Lord (Lord Stanley), not when he introduced this measure into that Home, but when speaking on it at a later period—namely. on the 14th of June, 1839. He (Lord Stanley) said he was not contending for absolute control over the direction of education, hut only for the principle that education, whether applied to Dissenters or the Church, was not a thing apart from religion, but a thing in which religio n must he made not only a part but the foundation. He ( Lord Mahon) in agreement velth those senti ments, would sly that religion must form a necessary part of every well regulated system of education. Could this be called a new opinion? tiad it not bean held by the most eminent men that secular should be blended with spiritual education, by such men as Pascal, Fen elon, Wesley, and Hooker. If the importance of religious instruction was felt as essential in State education, was there anything pecul ar an the state of Ireland to forbid its applica tion? When the country was Protestant, there would be no difficulty in applying it. but. in Ireland he thought it would net answer. If provisions had been made by the State in this Bill for nro'essors of different religious denominations, he would certainly have op posed it.--( Hear hear.) He weuld now state fully and ex plicitly the views which he intended to recommend to the adoption of the House. He thought that there ought to be in each college a professor of theology, according to the doctrines of the Established and the Roman Catholic Churches, and in the college of Belfast a Presbyterian professor It had been correctly stated by the Right Hon. Baronet that evening, that if the professorships were sanctioned by the State, then the State was hound to endow them, but he ( Viscount Mahon) did not require this endowment. He would afterwards explain how it was he proposed to support them. He proposed that the appointment of the Established Church professor should rest with the Bishop of the Established Church, the Roman Catho lic professor with the Bishop of that Church, and the Presby terian professor by the General Assembly. He should pro pose as a general rule that the students should study under and be examined by one of these professors, but in many cases he should allow exemptions. In the first place, he should propose that exemptions should be granted to every class of Separatists ; end there were particular ex emptions which might be regulated by the heads of the diffe rent seminaries. The amount of lecture..fee might be stated by the Board of Visitors, and if they would suppose a hundred pupils, at perhaps two-and-a-half guineas per annum—a suffi cient provision would be made for the maintenance of the lec turers. He did no' doubt that even with these limited means they would be enabled, even at the outset, to secure the sere vices of highly-gifted men —men of the highest character as professors. Looking to what they saw daily in the public offices, where young men of talent an d e d ucat i on entered for an inadequate salary of perhaps lOW. a year, in the hope that a future period would find them more adequately provided for. Looking to this fact he could riot but think that persons could be found equally ready to undertake the duty he referred to till such time as the means could be provided fur more adequately remunerating them. He did not think that it would be ne cessary fur him to enter more into detail, and he begged the Houos to remember that however much they might wish to conciliate Ireland, a good and sound religious education was the best boon they could confer upon the people. Mr. WYSE rose to second the motion of his Noble Friend. He was strongly impressed with the conviction that education, to deserve the name, must be based upon religion and mora lity. They had established colleges, and he thought they should also have established professorships of theology in them. He was anxious that there should be chairs in those colleges for religious instructions, and he did not mean theological. But he thought that the endowment of those chairs should be de rived from the communities for whose advantage they were in tended. He was so far in favour of the voluntary principle, that he should support the proposition for defraying the charges of those professorships by means of fees from the pupils whose parents wished them to avail themselves of the instruction, whether Roman Catholic or Protestant. At the same time, he must declare his belief that if there were not such professorships, the religious education of the Catholic youth in the universities would not be neglected. For he knew too well the untiring zeal of that venerable body the Catholic clergy to doubt that they would watch over the youth of their church —( Hear.) But, in order to prevent an hiatus in the establishment of the colleges themselves, he was willing to adopt the proposition of his Noble Friend, and agree to the appointment of religious professors to he paid by fees from the pupils. By such a course State endowment would be avoided, and religious instruction would be provided for ; and he would rejoice if that plan received the general concurrence of the House.—(Hear.) Indeed the Bill of the Right Hon. Baronet did not, from the first, exclude religious instruction, but left room for its provision, otherwise he snould have been unwilling to vote fair a measure which contemplated nn means of providing f r religious instruction.—( Hear, hear.) But he would not concur in the objections that had been made in a querter for which he had the most profound veneration, to the appointment of teachers of geology and anatomy —( Hear.) He always deferred with humility to the opinions of that dis tinguis,ed body of men—the Catholic Bishops of Ireland ; but with all deference, he thought that it their objections were to be carries out, it would apply equally to the teachers of astrn nomy, of geography, ti hi.tory, and all rudimental instruction —( Hear, hear)—so that there would be no such thing as mixed education at all.—( Hear, hear.) An Hon. Member, now behind him Cllr. J O'Connell) had attacked him in his absence in Conciliation -hall —( Hear, hear)—for the views he had expressed upon the subject, and had stated that he was returned to Parliament as a Catholic, but had ceased to be one, thereby implying that he was to lose his seat for the course which he had taken.—(" No, no," from Mr. J. O'Connell.) But he' w old tell the Hon. Gentleman that he was not his (;Mr. Wyse's) Pope.—(Cheers.) He would ask, why w as th e objection to Protestant tea c h ers o f philosophy in Trinity Col lege objected to by the Catholic prelates? Why had they never objected to Catholic youths being taught the sciences in that Col lege by Protestant professors ? Why had they never objected to Protestant teachers in all the medical schools ?—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman then referred to extracts from the speech of Mr. John O'Connell, and read extracts from the speech which gave occasion to the attack, contending that he had been misrepresented, and especially. in the allegation that he hod eulogised a Prussian system of education, which ex cluded reli g ious instruction He begged leave to tell th e H on . Member nan re would indulgence b e shown r theopinions more Christianity of o th e a i n s d , more Catholicity d A e d n y amidstth i ng a r than ian denouncing hee r. . 1 1) T r h . Wyse eii on o . f G W e a n t t e l r e f m o radn asconcluded o a n n e addloud che e rs, r ess o bv r e tthee s a t u dg , i n tasn of extract from Trinity ro c e e g ß e i s o h n o p t h o e f Down's subject of tolerating the opinions of others, which extract, the Hon. 111 - ember said, ought to be written in letters of gold. say M a r. fe J w . O' wo C r O ds N u N p E on L L ho them ped atte t r h , e in llo w u h s i e ch wou e ld a had llo b w ee h n im pe t r o . sonally alluded to. He would not then go into the general question, as he supposed that the Right Hon. Baronet would give the House at least thirty-six hours to consider his amend ments. If that were not the case, he would state his opinion of the amendments at a later hour of the night. He did not think the Hon. Member for Waterford had a right to complain of his (31r. John O'Connell's) observations as having been made in his absence. He had been required by his constituents to attend in Conciliation-hall, and so had the Hon. Gentleman. He (Mr. O'Connell) acted upon the instructions of his con stituents, and not being able to attend in the House, he com mented on the speech of the Hon. Gentleman in Conciliation hall, where he was obliged to be.—(Great laughter.) He thought that in his speech he had modified the language of which the Hon. Gentleman complained; but the newspaper report might be correct : for if the Honse knew all the business that was done in Conciliation-hall—(Gr ea t laughter)—they SPANISH COLONIAL SUGAR. Ur. LABOUCHERE wished to put a question to the 4, ght Hon. Gentleman opposite with reference to the claims advanced bs Spain tor the admission of her colonial -ugar into l he ports of this country. He w:she•i to know if any arrange 'tent had been come to with that country in reference to this s ubject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHTZQUER said, that not knowing that the Right Honourable Gentleman would have Pot the question, he was not prepared at that moment to a Nwer it Mr. LABOUCHERE then gave notice of his intention to 4, k th e quP-ti .n on a future day. P )OR-LAW SETTLEMENTS RILL. Mr. S. CR AWF(NID wished to know if it we intended t° Pass the Poor-law Settlements Bill through the House this session? fir J. G 3A HAM said, that as there was a great contrariety r . opinion on the subject of the law of settlement, it was not , I T" intention to press that part of the measure at that time, rt it might be expedient if the House w. , tuld permit the Bill t l i .be read a second time in the amended form. He d d not sot there could he any objection to this course, for he was "'H . aware that any opposition would be shown to that portion tho Bill which related to the law of removal. thIIRELIEF TO IRELAND. ,Alr. E. B. ROCHE said it might be in the recollection of i t ) " Rieit Hon. Baronet that h e (M r . R oc h e ) h a d i n t h e :ginning of the session asked him •slieth;_>r before its close he ;'°uld bring in two measures for Ir::.dand, one for a reform in the Muni c ip a l R e f orm A c t, an d anot h er br the extension of e franchise. At this late period h.; did not think it out of P l ace to again inquire whether it was the R'ght Hon. Baronet's 14 tetitio n to bring these measures forward ? Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the state of Ireland had receive,{ in a very considerable degree the attention of the Irnme un Go nt. One important measure had already p asse d th a t use, and another was u n der the con s id era ti on o f th e o th er buGuse of P ar li amen t—h e mean t th e L an dl or d s an d T enants Bill. IRISH COLLEGES BILL. Itfr. JOHN O'CONNELL presented a great number of Petitions against the Irish Colleges Bill, signed together by 11 P w ards of 144,000 p ersons : among th em one f rom D u b l i n , b hich alone was signed by between 50,000 end 60,000 persons. M. ROSS pr esen t e d a p e ti t i on f rom B e lf as t, very nume -v?,ly signed, i n f avour o f t h e 13:11, and stating the satisfactio n e petitioners experienced from the equality with which all .eels were to be treated. Mr. WYSE resented a petition from several distinguished Inhabitants of Dublin in favour of the Irish Colleges Bill. ,' le d J. O'CONNELL was so r r y th a t hi s sere of duty coin him to ohj.ct to the reception of the petition. The SPEAKER interrupted the Hon. Member by l re a. h • • in g im t at it was out of order to enter into a discus -Inn on the pres en t a ti on of a petition. Air J. O'CONNELL merely wished to enter his protest Ras a p e ti t i on w hi c h , w i t h out any o ff ence, h e must declare v as draw n up and presented under false pretences. lie denied nat it represented the feelings of this inhabitants of Dublin g e nerally or any but an unimportant and comparatively insig -14i6 cant portion. Several names had been obtained to it under 4 . 1 ' impression that the petition condemned the principle, hut ‘PP roved the motives that actuated the measure ; and one in particular had, after signing, expressed his gnu,de tination of withdrawing his name. For these reasons, erofore, he felt justified in protesting against the petition. I% ir. WYSE rose t o re ply, b u t T he SPEAKER intimated that such a course was out of Cr,d and that the petition had been received. k , t fir J. GRAHAM p resen t e d a pe ti t i on f rom t h e pro f essors students of the Belfast Institution in favour of the Irish "lieges Bill. the Sir R. PEEL presented a p e titi on f rom a l arge num b er o f : c itizens of London, incl u di ng fif t y b arr i s t ers , aga i nst th e in :duction of th eo l og y i n aca d em i ca l i nst i tut i ons genera ll y, Tin favour of the I r i s h C o ll eges Bill . Al so a pet i t i on f rom ~!.literary institutions of B e lt as t i n f avour o f t h e sys t em . 44 4 : 1 5 i petition was signed by persons of different religious per- ( TION IRELAND). Sir JAMES ACADEMICAL GRAHAM EDUC the A n rose and said, that con peeted with the motion that the Speaker do leave the Chair to I t : in to Committe e o n thi s Bill, th ere were some matters w hi c h W ag - desirous of explaining.. Questions had been put to him by te'"io !'n• Members connected with this measure , w hi c h wi th th e per nof the House he would answer. He would now endeavour tf"°4l everything in the shape of argument, reserving that for nietio n of which his Hon. Friend the Member tor Yar h,"ith had givese notice. He wished to answer a question put sp "' n's Hon. Friend the Member for Northampton, with refer jp.,ce to the class of persons for whose benefit the measure was 17'ended. The Houle wo ild recollect that, upen the second 0 4 ` i 'ng of the Bill, he stated to the House that his colleagues ti 4e of opinion that, considering the great spread of educe or'n amon g the humbler clan es in Ireland, 400,000 ti 'n ', hom were now receiving education under the na zi. ` ,'l education system, an d 100,000 under the Cho s;i_de Societies, a n d considering the means of education 11_4'cil the Dublin Univers ty aff or d e d f or t h e h igher c l asses , ktrtheught ;t was requisite that some provision should be wade 1 4 the in s t ruction o f the middle classes. The inh.bi :4' of the great towns and cities of Ireland. Cork, „Ll'erford, Kilkenny, and Belfast, were without any el as ln s of collegi a t e e d ucat i on ; an d f or the mtddle 4, 1 ' 1 , the present coll eg i a t e e d ucat i on i n D u bli n was too e s i le t ue and expensive. The education provided by these St e t ges would be equal to that in the Scottish U n i vers i t i es , b, not inferior to that of Trinity College, Dublin. He would de 14tti1l°ing the measure an injustice if he said it was in any ee of an exclusive character—it was as open to the e r as it was to the middle classes, and would, he expected, licaj' er ' e Ptable to most of them. A question of a more prac• ),1 e chara c t er h a d b een put to hi m by the Noble Lord, the pr c heer for the City of London, regarding the appropriation In 6 to money voted. With re s pe c t t o th e 30,000/. f or build by he the colleges, he must say that he did riot consider the sum 14,,, a , n y means exorbit an t—it wou ld b e i mposs ibl e t o erect i sfili t . at a less cost. At the same time, he believed that su m be sufficient. He proposed t o a pp ro p r i a t e th e sum o f th ey l • a year to each o f th e i ns tit ut i ons . I n eac h co ll ege I,l.:,eontemplated the appointm en t s o f P res id en t an d Vice per d ent —the maximum of President to be a salary of 70 L eO.i: n rtliTn—the maximum of Vi ce - i'resident, 5001. In each iri th ee there would be from twelve to fourteen professors, l i te 'e a salary of not less than 200/. nor more th an 3001. a y ear . tte h college there would be a librarian of 2001. a year; a Is e rva n t s , 100/. • 3OO/. Ascrinomical and other tea s cite. instruments, as well as a library, would be ne. tpirY. for which 2,0001. a y ear wou ld b e a ll owe d. H e , • kip a ;', Propos e th a t i n the first year there should be an exa trp,doon of those pupils who were in their first year. In the se th,s Year h e t h oug h t t h ere s h ou ld b e public examinations for N r e the first year and of the second. He would in that ths ti ! ) .topose premiums of from 20/.exhibitions in ethi k Ysl year of not less than 30/. for twenty students. The lip th l ; i tions in the third year may vary, if it seemed to be de. sp ul 'i l e, from 2 /. to 30/., or to 4"/. That brought him to he -Bever Point, on w hi c h a ques 'i on was as k e d o f hi m , not, h e t hei ed, by th e N o bl e L or d t h e M em b er for L ondon. but by t hat Member for Dumfries, a point to which he knew t he g re at importance would attach, and in reference to which 'Alember for the county of Limerick would address ti tt, ed nuse. I n opening to the House the reasons which in. Aro se her Maje s ty' s G overnmen t t o propose t hi s Bill i n i ts l 'Pirj;,l t , form, he st a t e d s p ec ifi ca lly th a t, cons i stent w i t h t h e 1 "Isj , 3 ,.'es on which it was founded, it was no t p oss ibl e f or h er td 'Y's Government to propose that any religious test should pernrinistered either to the governing bsdy, the studeots ! or ,e sp,„, s ,nns connected with these colleges. To that principle steadily adhere. At the same time he was bound to th at at might be found that ample precaution was ell e ce c' u red by the s tat u t e aga i ns t p ro f essors l ec t ur i n g i n these s, abusing their power of giving instruction, and seek- Itilo,l° undermine the religious doctrines of those students to . 4 'nri t th e) administered secular instruction. He knew no ;ter which they could devise. He must say that when tlept-l'ien State endowed, the Crown had generally the power ,toe es , ation. It had the power of nominating the Regius jhe tt f " ) ," in the English colleges. So the rule was that l ''ss,,"" State endowed the Crown nominated. He was not, b.verw, P r epared to say that with respect to the first nomina c en ft was necessary to give the first movement to row,, machine, it was iodispencable th a t the advi se rs of the el te to 'h , o , uld be responsible for their nomination. With re . x t feti o ,, tne professors, he was not prepared to limit their according t o th e d es i res o f th ose on th e oppos i te si d e. t ne measure should have been in operation for three then , ••ut " loose appointments should be regulated by Parlia -1"141;ii This rule would be admitted to be absolutely necessary Was remembered that the,e colleges could not spring i i. rittpl n agic, or could not be brought into effi , ient working 'test it ore the lapse of considerable time ; therefore it had I.: l '"rned necessary that those appointments should be re t'e 'Zed . and renewed after the lepse of three years, and in r oQr P "'time everything that could be devised to facilitate the lhoss , isi t t tnose colleges to something like perfection, m o tte e done. It might be asked, why not limit the period !guar? He had already said that it could not be possible th colleges could be in active operation by that time, Ri at it would be advisable not to renew those arrangeme.its tim e as the colleges could be included under one vl e t , t Y -- -( Hear, hear)—in which the pupils should be den- t ake cut degrees in the law, and the arts and sciences. I hear.) There would also be examiners attached to 5, 41 1, t sd v ersity ; but before that university could be th e an application should he made to Parliament, th - tl t (3, a ppointments in it should vest in the Crown. tb t Po,,"Plily the ulterior arrangements of the university to se s k :ultition, it would appear to him the natural way that ni t p lt . i ners and heads of colleges should have a power of ip tts„)Ving to the Crown the professor whom they thought - 'ned, with the power to the Crown of a veto upon all spirp. i ' e U rn mendations. Now, there had seemed to be a general t ) :904 the House that the control of the moral education of j ptr ip 111 sent to th e C o ll eges h a d no t b een sufficiently provided lis t e t ulpe,Bills. To remedy that defect, classes h a d been 11 Oc t -e u Which he believed would be acknowledged to be tot Wi th Youths sen t t o th ose co ll eges s h ou ld e i t h er b e res i 1/4,,,ctedn't their parents or guardians, or resident with persons 11 1 :Ptli p „ 1 ?Y their parent, or they should be congregated in 1p cqrnnuses or halls, under the control of the head of it k lt tli s ,„''g e '• When th e p u pil s r esided with th e i r p arents or ! se t iiseestno other control over their moral and religousedueation it t lNte and nothing could be worse than the inter tetne Government in such casts. ( Hear, hear.) But thltfe4euuents did not reside with their parents it would be q d li s ,. (l Y that the persons selected should be approved of by h e nts s of the colleges. The houses, therefore, in which th e ks p inot resident with their parents should be placed were 'res . ci i i 'ett e t r ' en ces, and the heads of the colleges were to have "t tv as t eof revoking those licences, if they disapproved of the 1 1)0114, ° ` the persons holding them. With resliect to the ,'"eilt of the perfect facilities would be given to ‘llO, O f Works tomake 'p advances for the building of those Ni t ei,il i n o d they wou ld b e governe d b y ru l es enac t e d by t R of t ,s,• The power also of appointing the linnet ;'ks `tie halls would be ve s t e d in the visitors. tql , p c ,i, -ci Psed th a t t h e h ea d s o f t h ese esta bli s h ments s h ou ld es of t t i e ) d by those who possessed the confidence of the large p, e differe n t re li gious persuas i ons . Th ere rema i ne d 41 44, e Itlestion to answer, and th a t was one of some 1m :it:I:I:her) r Wh ieh was put by the Right Honourable the ;YJsr W ar Dungarvon who asked if the Government 4 6: , ',., ( 'Il e rred to appoint ' religious professors, and to make t i lsOe s ; e Part of the education in these seminaries ? 1 :e 414 ' l nlent had given the question their best considera kAp th e ‘ecee of Y yiere of opinion that, ins uch a case, the per- Y op n r eligious worshiwitin the college, they were de-- r°se 'l to.--( Hear, hear.) On that point they were .." - r tould not wonder if gentlemen were sometimes unable to say all that they intended.—( Hear, hear.) He, however, was not reported to say that the Hon. Member for Waterford was a Protestant, but that he was very near one—(Hear, hear, and laughter) —at all events, that in his opposition to his bishops upon a religious question, he was a schismatic Catholic.—. ( Cries of " (A, oh.' ) It was not a Catholic act to appeal to the House cf Commons against the authority of his bishops—it was practical rebellion.—( Renewed cries of " Oh.") He ( Mr. Wyse) spoke of the demands of the Bishops as petty and insignificant. These were the declarations of the Roman Catholia Bishops, which he (Mr. J. O'Connell) be lieved to be supreme authority in Ireland, controllable only by the Sovereign in Council, that this Act was dangerous to the Roman Catholic people in Ireland ; and that there were certain terms which could alone render such a Bill at all safe. They had declared that ; and they had further declared, in an interview with the Lord Lieutenant in Ireland, that these were demands less than which they could not ask. He (Mr. O'Connell) submitted to them, as in duty bound • he ad vanced no other objection ; and if the Honourable Gentleman called that objection petty and insignificant, he could only tell him that he was not abusing him, but the Roman Catholic Bishops. He also praised the law in Prussia, in 1819, dist a priest should not administer communion to the children at the public schools. Nobody could deny that that was a gross infraction of ecclesiastical right. They were ready to secure for the Pro testants and Presbyterians their colleges, and all they asked was to be treated in the same way. He would ask them not to force down the throats of the Irish Roman Catholics a system which was revolting to their conscience, and which would bring the utmost confusion, strife, and discord, in that country. It would more strongly unite the people in the desire for their own Parliament, and in the wi4i not to allow theorists to talk away their religious feelings, and would by no means tend to put down the rep ial agitation. He would tell the Hon. Member that if the Bill passed into law, instead of causing conciliation i n I re l an d, i t wou ld cause utter con fusic n and would increase the determination of the Irish people not to be mislegislated fur by the English representatives, or those calling themselves the representatives of the people of Ireland. The Hon. Member said that he ( Ale. J. O'Connell) wanted to renew religious feuds in Ireland, by calling on the peo, le of Waterford to ask him to resign his seat in Parliament, as he was not representing his constituents. He thought that it was most unfair to impute to him that which he abhorred in his soul, namely, the idea of renewing religious feuds in Ireland. His words were misrepresented. He called upon the Catholic electors of Waterford to take notice that he was not represent ing them as Roman Catholics. They were inclined to be led by their bishops, and the Hon. Member for Waterford was ex claiming against them, and consequently he was not repre senting them as Roman Catholics. It was on that account that he asked them to call upon him to resign, or nut to elect him after next election. Mr. WYSE then explained, and read the report of the words of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, as contained in the columns of the Nation newspaper. Sir JAMES GRAHAM felt confident that he expressed the opinion of the great mtjority of the House when he de clared his strong impression that that was not the place to discuss what degree of submission Catholic gentlemen owed to their ecclesiastical superiors. It must be very painful to the House to hear some observations which had fallen from the Honourable Member who hail just sat down. The Honourable Member for Waterford was not bound in explicit obedience to the opinion of the Bishops in his representative capacity. He was at liberty to express his own judgment on a matter whi h was not considered spiritual but temporal. He ( Sir James Graham) felt that he must also state what he considered to be due to the Hon. Member for Waterford, namely that he had not been guilty of any deception whatever towards his consti tuents. His religious opinions and his religious practice, whatever they might be, were known to that constituency. So much for his orthodox catholicity, and as far as his political opinions went to his honour be it spoken, he waa a friend to Bri tish connexion as founded by the legislative union. He invariably declared that opinion to the electors of Waterford, who all knew his religious and political feelings. He therefore prac tised' no deception. He had discharged his duty to his consti tuency in the most honourable manner, and he (Sir J. Graham) would despair of the welfare of Ireland, if the people of Ireland held a different opinion. He attached the greatest importance to the strict observance of the rules of the House, and the ex perience of every year taught him more and more their value and importance. His Noble Friend must excuse him when he would say, that while he (Lord Mahon) adhered to those rules he had most decidedly violated their principles. The rule was, that it was not competent for any Member to move any instruc tion to a Committee on a provision which, without instruc tion, it shall be competent for that Committee to make. The spirit of the motion now made was nothing more nor less than an instruction, and if it was it was grossly irregular. This de parture from the rule of the House had involved them in ex treme difficulties, to the disadvantage of the measure now be fore them. His Noble Friend should have introduced his plan as a clause in the measure. Now that they were compelled to discuss the motion of his Noble Friend, he must express his surprise that the Hon. Member for Waterford seconded it. Its object was the appointment of theological professors, and in seconding it the Hon. Member for Waterford stated that he had insuperable objections to that. After hearing his Noble Friend's speech, he was still in doubt whether the object of the motion was to have these professors paid voluntarily or not. He, however, collected from the speech of his Noble Friend that the Roman Catholic professors were to be nomi nated by the Roman Catholic bishops, and the Protestant pro fessors by the Protestant bishops, and the Presbyterian pro fessors by the Presbyterians. Was that rule to be confined to the orthodox Presbyterians ? Were not the Unitarian Presbyterians of the North of Ireland entitled to it also? The Hon. Member for Waterford stated that religious instruction was excluded ; but any gentleman. looking to the 15th clause of the Bill, would see, that so far from religious instruction being excluded, every encouragement was g iven to the propag a ti on o f re li g i ous doctrines. Con s id er i ng ehat the principles of the Bill were, he could not see how the motion of his Noble Friend could be listened to. Religions instruction ought not, in his ( Sir J. Graham's) opinion, to be given within the walls of the colleges while all facilities could he had for affording it without the walls. It had been said also that it was the intention of the Govern ment not to bear in mind, in selecting the ecclesiastical instruc tors, the ecclesiastical authorities of the district; but again he should remind Hon. Members that there was to be no ecclesiastical instruction within the walls of the colleges. The Hon. Member for Waterford had said that he, a Roman Catholic, had been educated in Trinity College, Dublin. Well, then, he ( Sir J. Graham) need not remind the Right Hon. Gentleman that there was no religious instruction given to Roman Catholics within the walls of that institution. There were a great many Roman Catholics educated within its walls, who received their ecclesiastical education without, and therefore be could not see why the same principle should not be applied to the new col leges.—(Hear, hear.) He conceived then upon the whole that the general principles in the new Bill afforded a far better principle of arrangement. Need he instance the educational institutions of Scotland, where religious instruction was not required to be given within the walls. In those institutions the Presbyterian and Roman Catholic mixed and received alike the same secular educational instruction, but religious instruc tion was given to no class of Christians in those colleges. In further proof of this he held in his hand a letter which he had recently received from a gentleman, a Roman Catholic and member of the town council of the city of Edinburgh, by which it appeared that by virtue of their charter a large number of the town council of Edinburgh were members of the Edinburgh University. The writer went en to state that he was opposed to a proposition which had been introduced at the University, having for its object religious instruction within its walls—the question was put to the vote and was negatived by a majority of the town council, and, therefore, it was decided upon that religious instruction should continue to be given as before without the want of that University.—( Hear, hear.) He would not weary the House by entering further into details, but he would beg leave to be permitted to read an extract from the evidence given before a Committee of that How by Dr. Crolley, Roman Catholic Archbishop of Ireland, in reference to the system of national education introduced into Ireland. The evidence had reference to the rules enforced in the system of education pursued in the Belfast Educational Institution. The Right Honourable Baronet then read the extract, the sub stance of which was to the effect, that he (Dr. Crolly) had no objection whatever to Roman Catholics intended for Maynooth receiving their initiatory education at the Belfast Adademical Institution. Nor did he conceive that. any danger could arise to Roman Catholic students mixing with students of other persuasions, so long as they were under the control of proper masters. This he ( Sir James Graham) conceived was sufficient to show that the Roman Catholic Bishops of Ireland had no objection to such a system of education as that adopted in the Belfast Academical Institution, His Noble Friend (Lord Mahon) had alluded to the system of national education in Ireland, as introduced by Lord Stanley. Now he (Sir James Graham) begged to say, from the first introduction of that measure, he had beer. a warm and sincere advocate of that measure, and he should say he felt bound to add, that that system, which compre hended what he might call a combined system of education, might have been most successfully carried out in that country, but for the Protestant hierarchy and parochial clergy, who offered it from the commencement the most determined opposition.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") But so far from that opposition having. affected the success of the measure, he ( Sir J. Graham) believed he could not give a better in stance of its popularity than the feet that four hundred thou sand children were receiving in that country a good general moral education, under that system—a fact which, he believed, was not exceeded by any other country, whether Roman Catholic or Protestant.—( Hear, hear.) He regretted, also, to observe that the Hon. Member for Waterford (Mr. Wyse) had fallen into the mistake of believing that scriptural extracts were read in the school-books of the national schools during school hours ; but he (Sir J. Graham) begged to correct that mistake, and to state that it was after school hours that every facility was given for religious instruction.—( Hear, hear. ) A system of combined religious education in Ireland was un fortunately impossible. 'l'he great majority of the people of that country were believers in Christianity ; but still it was of vast importance that there should be a combined national system of secular education established, as a similar system, combining religion, would be impossible, inasmuch as such a system, under existing circumstances, would tend rather to foster than soften down religious animosities.—( Cheers. ) Lord MA110:1 explained. He had drawn this clause in strict conformity with the precedent established by General Gascoigne upon going into Committee on the Reform Bill. Lord CLIVE, after addressing himself to the difficulty of bringing clauses under the consideration of the House upon a Bitl of this description, defended the clause introduced by the Noble Lord the Member for Hertford. He thought the Noble Lord had exercised a sound Judgment in bringing forward this question on principle. Mr. M. MILNES said it was painful to find that the hie rarchy of the Catholic religion were coming forward to oppose a large and liberal measure like the present. He believed that the Catholic religion might be made the nurse of religious free dom ; but this opposition of the Catholic hierarchy would lead a person to believe that their object was to crush everything like religious liberty. Upon this ground, he felt called upon to oppose the motion of his Noble Friend the Member for Hertford. Mr. J. O'CONNELL explained. Mr. 13. ESCOTT thought the opposition to the measure had been as useless as it would be nugatory. The Hon. Member for Somersetsbire, who alone had objected to it, on the ground that Ireland needed no education, had been very satisfactorily answered by the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home Department. The only remaining objection was that propunded by the Hon. Members for Oxford and Newcastle under-Lyrae, that it was " a gigantic scheme of Godless edits cation," and that religion was eschewed in its principles. Mr. COLQ LJHOUN—I beg your pardon, I have expressed no opinion. Mr. ESCOTT had misapprehended the course pursued by the Hon. Gentleman ; but at all events the Honourable :Members for Oxford and Newark had based their oppo sition on those grounds. But he (Mr. Escott) de fended it, because it was essentially religious—( A laugh)—and because lie thought that the only chance of promoting true religion was by excluding sectarian differences.—( Hear.) The measure was calculated to allay those differences, and pave the way for an extensive and effi cient system of sound religious instruction, and the reason that all previous attempts had proved abortive, was that they were not bold enough tsi propose a measure so enlarged and compre hensive. When it was said that religion was the chief ob stacle to the pacification of Ireland, the very strongest argu ment was used in favour of a measure which supplied the defi ciency and avoided the obstacle and impediment to all efficient education in Ireland.—( Hear.) When he heard Hon. Members denominating this a Godless scheme of education, it put him in mind of the history he had heard not long ago, of a worthy man of good intentions, who kept a school in a country village, a man of unimpeached character, and of whore nothing but good was spoken. All at once a very grave accusation—it was said he was guilty of a very cruel act, that in the depth of the severe winter he had refused his pupils the use of fire. A strict investigation was instituted, and what was the result ? Why, that this excellent pedagogue had denied the use of squibs and crackers, and be cause he prevented them from singeing their coats, he was accused of the enormous barbarity of denying a little warmth to his perishing pupls.—(Laughter.) Such appeared to him to be the kind of accusation brought against the Government for not allowing the feelings of polemical animosity to prevent the improvement of the people. —( Hear, hear.) Not only was this a religious measure, but that man was above the re:i gious man who would do acts of mercy and justice to the Irish. It had been said that the measure was not palatable to the Ca tholic prelates. If they waited for a measure that would be palatable to them, they must give what would be unpalatable to the great body of the United Kingdom.—(Hear,hear.) He could rot think that the Honourable Member for Cork or Kilkenny represented the feelings of the Irish people ; for he thought, nay, he knew, that a great mass of the population of Ireland, Catholic, Protestant, and Presbyterian, rej need in the prospect of a measure which would give those who could not afford now to procure it, the means of a good classical education without the bane of sectarian animosities.—( Hear. ) But while he denied that the member for Cork expressed the opinion of the Irish people, he equally repudiated the assump tion that the member fir the University of Oxford represented the feeling of the Church of England. He would rather ad mit that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who he supposed would support the Bill, merited that claim more than ten to one. Those who professed to be very godly should recollect what was said by one of the first judgesof the heart, that it was ever the peculiarity of those who make a pretence of godliness never to be satisfied till they could put their fingers on their neigh bour's conscience, and pinch them there. This measure gave no such opportunity, and theref ire it was displeasing: but it was a good, a stupendous, a politic, a worthy measure, and as such he defended it, and honoured the Government for intro• (hieing it. It had been said that it had not pacified Ireland, who ever thought it would? but It was not a measure of to day, it was one to create a new and a bettor feeling, one whose benefits would be felt in future generations, and whose boon would then be permanent. He hoped the Hon. Member op posite (Mr. O'Connell) would excuse him—humble as he was— in venturing to express his disappointment at the course he had adopted. fie had expected that party animosities would have been thrown aside, an i that the time had come when, after con ferring great benefits on Ireland, and obtaining for his country redress for the injuries of ages, he would have assisted this country in bestowing greater. Why slid he not rise superior to sectarian animosities? Why would he not now teach the people over whom he held such indisputable control, lessons of pacification, and refrain from that useless agitation which he had so long carried on ? Why would he not help the Govern ment in effecting a measure which he ( Mr. Escott) and the Government and all admitted to be necessary fur the benefit of Ireland? He had gained many victories, why will he not achieve one other more glorious, more ennobling than all, a victory over himself.—( Hear.) Many had attacked the Go vernment for a desertion of their former principles ; he, for one, could see no such change ; in fact, there was a very close analogy between this and other measures for the relief of the community. One was opposed by the monopolist of religion, the others by the monopolist of protection. lie honoured them because they had defied the taunts of bigotry, and in spite of bigots and monopolists had urged those principles which were sanctioned by liberty and truth, anti the free and independent voice of the United Kingdom. —( Hear, hear.) He said to them "Go on and prosper."—(lronical cheers.) He could not please everybody ; but he repeated, "go on anti prosper ;" their course was a noble one, and he trusted would meet not only with the temporary approbation of the kingdom, but be conducive to the prosperity and happiness of Ireland. Mr. COLQUHOUN would not oppose the present propo sition of the Government, though he could not support it on the grounds submitted by the last speaker, and it would look like satire if with him he called it a religious measure.—( A laugh.) The Hon. Member for Winchester (Mr. B. Escott) had addressed a speech which ought not to have been delivered on those benches, far more fitting the Opposition, and whose only seconder should have been the Member for Bath ( Mr. Roebuck). The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir li. Peel) had at least placed his measure on intelligible ground., and proposed to steer clear of religion. He (Mr. Colquhoun) doubted whether any circumstances should justify such a measure ; but, if they roust have secular education, it was better not to aim at any delu •ion of religion which would misguide all and reconcile none. His only doubt was whether, by the improvement suggested in the 14th clause, the bye-laws which had been inserted in the Bill would lead to obnoxious religious instruction. He must say that his Right Hon. Friend, who had stated on a former occasion that the proposed system assimilated to the universi ties of Scotland, and still more to Trinity College, as re spected the Roman Catholic, had not bean very fortunate in his comparison. He (Mr. Colquhoun) thought the scheme would afford a fair, good, and substantial education for the middle classes in Ireland ; but to say it was a university system of education was, in his opinion, perfectly ridiculous. The Right lion. Secretary for the Home Departosent had said that when he was at Oxford he had received no religious instruc tion ; now, when he was at College, he was obliged not only to read sermons, but occasionally to write them. But he would not place on these special grounds the difference existing between the university system of England and the peculiarities of the system which was about to be introduced into Ireland. He would ask what was it that gave life and energy to the system of edu cation in England ? It was the sermons that were read or the inculcation of the principles embodied in the thirty-nine articles. It was the pious example of the teachers, who as clergyman of the Church were respected and followed, not less fr.sm their high position than from their prudent instructions and judicious behaviour. Look at the reformation that had been worked in the great school at Rugby by Dr. Arnold. He had effected there great changes by bringing to his work an earnest and energetic mind, and this in combination with his general demeanor had wrought powerfully as incentives to imitation on the pupils. lie was afraid under the proposed system it would be impossible to prevent the junior scholars from being tainted with a smattering of some religion. The Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government had alluded to the proceedings at Belfast College, but he would tell him that it was not the theological professors who had taught Arian doctrines —no, it was the professors of Greek and che mistry and who had introduced Arian opinions into their lec tures. It was very well to provide that in ease any of the teachers employed in these colleges should mix up religious matters with what they might teach they should be liable to be discharged from their vocations. It was possible to hinder them from openly employing religious discussion, but how could the professor of Greek, or of astronomy, or of chemistry, be pre vented from conveying a significant allusion by means of a look, or a shrug, or a jocular remark? He would remind the Right Hon. Baronet that by this means an infidel professor might introduce principles of a most obnoxious character, and in the Bill as it stood the public were not safe from these re sults. To talk of the preject as a collegiate education equal to the present university systems of either England, Scotland, or Ireland, was absurd in the extreme. If the principle was good let religion be altogether abolished from all our educational in stitutions—let this unconservative element be got rid of, and reduce all knowledge to Greek and mathematics. The Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government had applied the scheme under the peculiar circumstances in which Ireland was placed. His Right Hon. Friend, on a former occasion, had stated that the present system and the national system were the same. Ile ( Mr. Colquhoun) con sidered that the difference was most material. One great dis tinction was, that the Government proposed to reserve to them selves the nomination of the professors. One of the principal objections which he had alway s made to the national system of education was, the power of appointing masters was practically placed in the hands of those who were not immediately respon sible to the Government. In the Committee which sat in the other House in 15.37, on the National Education scheme, there were elicited many instances of the incapacity and inaptness of the persons who had been appointed masters. He would take one instance, which really presented a most curious illus tration of the working of that system of education, In the trial which had been quoted with so much humour by the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork, it appeared that Timothy Lynch, the schoolmaster, in conjunction with Mrs. Peebles, had succeeded in humbugging the public as to his religion. This man had at times as many as ISO children committed to his charge, and he unblushingly admitted, in cross-examina tion on the trial, that he sometimes taught them to lie and cheat, and dec e i ve people. He was a nat i ona l school master appointed by a rev. gentleman, and the cou nse l, i n his closing speech, alluded to the mistaken motives which had led to the appointment of so great a rascal to such a situa tion. That was a specimen of a national schoolmaster, and he had adduced it as a remarkable example of the unwhole some influence of those local agents to whom was committed the responsibility of appointing masters for those national schools. He trusted that her Majesty's Government would retain firmly in their own hands the appointment of all professors, otherwise he should look with extreme distrust as to any practical be nefit resulting to Ireland from the scheme. Sir ROBERT PEEL confessed he really had not expected to hear, on the present occasion, the name of Mrs. Peebles in troduced. He did not think that the Hon. Gentleman, in quoting Mrs. Peebles, had been very successful in showing that anything wrong existed in the system of national educa tion in Ireland, if out of 400,000 children who were instructed on the national system, he could adduce only one instance of a schoolmaster who was not competent to fulfil the duties of that office.--( Hear, hear.) He thought there was no single civil or ecclesiastical institution which could boost of so small an amount of vicious regulation : but the subject of discussion had been departed from. The ques tion was not whether the Bill be now adopted, bat it was the proposition of the Noble Lord the member fur Hertford, and his Noble Friend who had proposed this motion—" that it is the opinion of this House that in tam establishment of colleges in Ireland provision should be made for the 'religious instruction of the pupils by means of lecture fees, till such time as private benefacttons for that object may have taken effect." In bringing forward that motion his Noble Friend had admitted that the circumstances of Leland were difficult. Ile (Sir R. Pee!) did not tender his plan of the Government as a perfect and finished plan. He thought it would be a better plan if religion were made the foundation of education. He wished that the circumstances of the country admitted that in bringing forward this plan the religion of the State could be introduced. But looking at the peculiar condition of the country the infi nite diversity of opinion on religious matters that existed, he thought it would be best for the country that the education should be rather cf a mixed character th an an exclusive one. Ilis Noble Friend thought it was advisable to extend the field of operations , and had said, if you establish three professorships of theology , one of each t o b e connected with re li g ions —viz. one prof essor of the Established Church, of the Roman Catholic reli g i on, and a third the anothery arious who should inculcate Presbyterian doctrines —such a measure would have met with his decided support. But he (Sir R. Peel) would contend that if that principle was acted upon, professors for every' sect and religion, however minute their distinctions, must be provided. He then proposed that pro vision for religious instruction should be m a d e b y means of levying fees from students, until private b ene fi cence should afford the required instruction. He would snake no p er f ect insufficient means for the purp ose . On account of the diversity of religious opinion, the Gover nment were un able to provide religious instructi®n that sh o uld sat i sfy the provision for the theological professors, b ut h e proposed an in padr te and various demands of the different religionists of Ireland. The Government had given every sufficient inducement and encouragement both to professors and students. Twenty prizes, varying in value, would be offered to the students as in centives to their emulation. lie believed that in Ireland there was that deep religious feeling existing among the Roman Ca. tholics that induced them to act on the voluntary principle for the support of the majority of their secular and religious insti tutions. It had been seen what had been done in this country by voluntary contr.butions, and he was satisfied that the Roman Catholics would continue to adhere to the voluntary principle. The u, brought in contact with eminent p ro f essors, were m likely to imbibe religious feelings th an if they were h pupils, more left to the subjection of other influences. He was sure that the parents, or the theological heeds of the Church, would provide much better for the religious instruction of the students. Take Cork, for instance. Were they to presume that the Roman Catholic clergy of that city, or the wealthy Roman Catholics of that place, would ni t provide for the spiritual instruction of the pupils at the college proposed to be established there ? He was sure that the religious instruction would be better provided for by trust ing to such resources, than by subjecting the students, as ad vocated by the Noble Lord ( Lord Mahon), to a compulsory payment on their entering the college.—( Hear, hear.) The plan of the Noble Lord would require that a high sum for religious instruction would have to be raised ) either at the fllE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, JUNE 24, 1845. expense of the parents who sent children to those colleges, or by the Church to which the students belonged. Now he would ask what particular form of worship was to be observed, and were the pupils to be compelled to give their attendance? 'fo apprehend the difficulties, let them look at the unfortunate differences at present existing in the Church of England. Sup posing a professor giving theological lectures in the University of Oxford, would it be right to force every student to attend such lectures, irrespective of what particular part the lecturer might take in the questions that were agitating and exciting the Church ? Would it not he better fur parents and guardians to have the power of regulating the attendance of those entrusted to their care, upon such theolo gical lectures.—( Hear.) So with the Roman Catholics of !relent/. They (the Government) therefore made in this Bill the attendance on theological lectures voluntary. Would they enforce attendance on the part of the students, arid if they would not, would they enforce payment ? If they did, they would, he was sore, i itroduce into the measure a great cause of dissension and ill feeling.—( Hear, hear.) He did hope that the House, on due reflection, seeing all the difficulties of the question, would leave theological instruction at these institu tions to the operation of the voluntary principle. Any attempt at a middle course between the two principles of religious en dowment or non-endowment would not be accompanied with any corresponding advantage. lie had been blamed with not consulting the ecclesiastical authorities in the framing of this Bill, but experience had convinced him that in that course he had done right. Had he done otherwise it would not have been likely that he collet have agreed with any measure that would hate pleased such authorities.—( Hear, hear.) The Roman Catholic prelates had insisted that the professors of geology and anatomy should be Roman Catholics. Had the Government submitted the measure to an authority of that kind, would it have been right to adopt such a suggestion ? ( Hear, hear.) He never would have sanctioned such a prin ciple. He considered that anatomy might be very well learned from a Protestants, or geology from a Roman Catholic, with out any danger to the faith of the student.—( Hear, hear.) What would a philosopher of old think of our religion, had he been told that the principles of abstract science could not be learned without interfering, with its doctrines. Should the Roman Catholic youths of last century be told that they could not be present at the lectures of John Hunter, a Protestant, without endangering their faith, or that the students of the present day should avoid the teachings of Sir Benjamin Brodie, or Sir Philip Crampton, from the same cause. Mr. O'CONNELL said he could inform the Right Hon. Baronet that Sir Philp Crampton had, in the course of a lec ture he delivered in Dublin, introduced one of the grossest calumnies against the head of the Roman Catholic Church. Sir ROBERT PEEL —Were anything of that kind to take place under the provisions of the Bill before the House the professor would be removed.--( Hear, hear.) He hoped, how ever, the statement made by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman respecting Sir Philip Crampton was not correct. If it were so he ( Sir R. Peel), at all events, had never heard of the fact alluded to. That gentleman (Sir Philip Crampton) held the highest character fur scientific attainments and private charac ter, and he was persuaded would not have done anything cal culated to wound the religious feelings of his Roman Catholic brethren. Mr. O'CONNELL admitted that Sir Philip Crampton was j a very eminent man, and a man most exemplary in all the affairs of life; yet he certainly did accuse the head of the Roman Catholic church with committing one of the grossest acts of persecution. He (Mr. O'Connell) would, however, say that a letter was published in reply to the Learned Gen tleman's accusation, Ora the Or the charge w as w ith out foun dation, on whi c h Sir Phillip Crampton came forward and admitted that he was in the wrong. Sir ROBERT PEEL said he had mentioned that Learned Gentleman's name because he was a gentleman of most camprehensive mind and eminent for his scien tific acquirements. He (Sir Robert Peel) had never, he must again soy, heard of the circumstance to which the Hcn. and Learned Gentleman alluded ; but, certainly, he could easily concetve how a professor, speaking of Galileo, should say something against the Roman Catho'ic Church, and make use of remarks unpalatable to the believers in the Roman Catholic faith. It was, therefore, possible that the Learned Gentleman to whom allusion had been made, in the course of his teachings, might have made, in elucidating the history of the science of which he was a professor, some re ferences to an instance of persecution proceeding from the head of the Roman Catholic Church; still, he (Sir Robert Peel) would beg leave to suspend his judgment till he had seen the lecture referred to. But, even admitting that the reference in question had been made, he considered it might he perfectly admissible with a sincere and studious desire to arrive at truth. —( Hear, hear.) If such were the state of feeling in Ireland that public men could not state a fact in reference to the subject they were appointed to teach, without giving offence to the Roman Catholics, he held it was necessary to lay the foundation of a better system, in order, if possible, to put an end to religious differences. 'The present measure afforded better hope of future harmony than if they had placed the appointment of the professors under the spiritual authority of the Roman Catholic Church . He admitted that they were open to the objection that they had not consulted the eccle siastical authorities. In a letter addressed to him by Arch bishop Mtliale, that Prelate thus spoke of the motives which influenced the Gevernment. He said " They were se conding a selfish scheme of mercenary infidels that were springing up in the country, who, under an affected zeal for education, would not hesitate to advocate Mahometenism. if they could obtain:access to the patronage of the Lords of the Treasury." Suppose they had taken the opinion of Arch bishop M`Hale ; he was afraid he would have incurred the risk either of abandonLig the plan altogether, or of treating the opinions of Dr. 111tHale with disrespect.--( Hear, hear. ) Then with respect to the Presbyterians, he had received a few days ago a letter from one very high in authority in that Church, which he would read to them :—" Sir James Graham appears to intimate that all religions will be represented in the Col:eges; but if he might express an opinion it would be that if there were one Unitarian or Roman Catholic professor over the undergraduate course the General!Assembly would withdraw all their students.—( Laughter.) Of the result I entertain no doubt ; that an Episcopalian profersur of the Church of Eng land might be borne, but the appointment of a Roman Catholic or Unitarian professor of anatomy or agronomy would lead to the withdrawal of every student." He felt perfectly cer tain that these ecclesiastical denunciations would he of no avail. He believed that they would rather provoke a fair and liberal spirit among men—a spirit more in consonance, as it appeared to him, with the true genius of the Christian religion. Ile thought that after the lapse of some time there would be no ob jection to receive instruction of a secular nature from professors of eminence, whatever their religious creed might be, provided there would be full security that no advantage would be taken of that sacred office for the purpose of undermining the faith of the young men who resorted there for instruction. With respect to infidelity, the Roman Catholics had not stronger reasons for opposing its progress than the Protestants.— ( Hear, hear, hear.) There Gould not not be a stronger guarantee against the introduction of infidelity than the fact that the power over these institutions lay in a Protestant state. With respect to the insinuation that doc trines favourable to any particular c 1 s would be propagated, he could not think that theological doe' rines would be broached in the shape of secular lectures on abstract science. His per suasion was that apprehensions on that head were entirely groundless. Practical testimony had been borne to this by those educated in Trinity College—conclusive testimony. The Hoe. Member for Waterford, the Hon. Member for Kerry and the Right Hod. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Dungarvon had been educated in Trinity College, Dublin, where the lecturers belonged to the established Church, with the exception of two who were Catholics. What was their testimony ?—And let it be re co ll ec t e d t h at Trinity College was an almost exclusively Protestant institution. They had been four years within its walls, but yet they felt bound to say that from no professor had they ever heard a word disrespectful to the Roman Catholic religion, had they ever witnessed a single attempt to gain an advantage over Protestants or Roman Catholics. If that was true in an exclusively Protestant university, were not their apprehensions groundless respecting new institutions not endowed with an exclusively Protestant spirit as having that tendency--( Cries of " Hear, hear ")_. where there was no test, and where, so far as s ecu l ar education was concern e d, th e principle was to give no preference to any religious creed.— s ( Hear, hear.) Was it right, he repeated, after the experience of Trinity College Dublin, to credit such insinuations against her professors? He did hope, from the petitions he had presented in approval of the Government plan, that notwithstanding the symptoms of hostility manifested by such men as Dr. Murray and Dr. Crolly, that the majority of the Roman Catholic Prelates would ultimately lend their cordial co-operation, which he considered would be most important to the success of the measure—he did hope that the opinions of the great body of the laity would in the end be favourable to it, and he would not despair that the Roman Catholic prelates of Ireland, when they felt assured that nn advantage would be taken of the system of secular in struction—that every opportunity would be afforded for reli gious instruction, according to the tenets of each church within the walls of the college—he did hope that there being such a manifest defect in the system of academical education in Ireland, the plan was, on the whole, a great boon to the country, calculated to carry further the inestimable blessings founded on education, and to lay the foundation of a better and a kindlier feeling among that youth, which was to form the future manhood of Ireland._( Cheers.) Mr. O'CONNELL then rose, and the House was instantly silent and attentive. He said—Sir, lam aware that we have already avoided, in a great measure, the real point of dispute, and travelled out of the proper line of argument in the recent discussion ; otherwise I would have risen at an earlier period to express my opinions in a few sentences regarding what I consider to be the merits and demerits of the measure. Before doing so, however, I must say a word or two respecting an al lusion that has been made to Sir Philip Crampton. I wish to bear my humble testimony to the excellence of that man, and to free myself from the supposition that I would have insinuated anything derogatory to the character of that estimable and amiable gentleman. He certainly mistook an higorical fact, and in doing so was guilty of great injustice to the Roman Catholic Church ; but at the time he did so he was unconscious of what he stated, being untrue ; and when Doctor Miley, a Roman Catholic clergyman, represented the fact, as they really were, he vindicated his high character by retracting his assertion, that Rome had bees ini mical to the advancement of science. Ido not mean to detain the House more than a few minutes, but I really would wish to say a word or two about Galileo.—( Laughter.) The general idea is that he was imprisoned for advocating the Copernicon system, but, in point of fact, he was only imprisoned by the Inquisition for three days. So far from being sent to prison for promulgating the doctrine of Copernicus, the Pope enabled C irpernicus to publish his discoveries. Galileo was impri soned for a different thing—that the theory of the revolution of the earth could be proved out of Scripture. He was told he must not preach this doctrine, bui was permitted to state that there was nothing inconsistent in the Scriptures with the Co pernican theory, for obstinacy Galileo was sent to prison for three days ; and there is the entire history of that popular legend so fondly cherished by those of an opposite creed, that though Galileo was imprisoned the world goes round still. But, turning to the Bill before us, Sir, I do not mean to ar raign the motives which actuated the present Government in bringing forward this Bill. Almost all our actions admit of the assignment of a motive, and I bedeve the motive of the Government in bringing forward this Bill was to conciliate Ireland. I freely admit that. The Hon. Member for Win chester, who paid me so high a compliment, and atti ibuted so much power to me, talked of what the Government had done for Ireland, but I would like to know what other measure at all favourable to Ireland had been brought forward by the Go vernment, or now lies before either House of Parliament ? I dare say the Government will last all the longer for it.—( A laugh.) Sir, I say Ireland is a frightful state. There is most decided evidence of that fact in Lord Devon's late Commission. In 1830, Spring Rice showed great distress and destitution, but was full of hope that the condition of the people would be speedily ameliorated. In 1834, the Poor-law Commission stated the frightful fact that 2,300,003 of the Irish people were in a state of destitution. The late Com mission stated that 4,50,009—m0re than one half of the population—is in this condition, badly clad, badly housed, badly paid. their food potatoes, their drink water, their bed straw and perhaps a tattered blanket. That is the condition of Ireland, and I am sorry that I should be obliged to trespass one moment on your attention with a subject so full of horror. The report of Lord Devon on this subject is stated to be in correct. If it is incorrect, it is that it is not higher charged, and there is no hope of amelioration held out except by a change of measures. Recollect, also, that the agrarian dis turbances in Ireland committed year after, the murders. cem mitted by the - - excited tenantry—tenantry, or th e i r f r i ends, swept into theditches, are on the inorease. These disturbances are at present extensive in the county of Roscommon, in Leitrim, and in Antrim, and in Fermanagh, two horrid murders had beers committed under this airariqn system 141 - year. Are Gentlemen of the House of Commons aware that this is the real situa , ion of Ireland ? They cannot possibly doubt it. The evidence is most conclusive. There cannot be a doubt of it entertained by any one. And here you talk of meting out a scholastic boon when the people are starving.— ( Hear, hear.) Oh, don't kick up a din—don't make a merit of bringing in a Bill to benefit the Irish out of the capital themselves have saved. This i< a ease for the Queen's Govern. ment—a case in which they should claim and obtain the assist ance of every honest man.—( Cheers.) When I addressed this House last year, I asked the Queen's Government what they intended to do for Ireland ? No matter what might become of me. 1 asked what they intended to do for Ireland ? They had schemes of their own for the suppression of grievances ; but they did nothing for Ireland ( Hear, hear, and cheers.) I got no response then, and I again ask them now, what they intend to do for Ireland ? I feel exceedingly gratified by the kind attentions of the Hon. Member for Winchester.—( Hear, hear, and Ch eers. ) H e had determined to giv e thi s measure his support wisely and deter minedly; and I do believe that, setting aside religious diffe rences, the English members have, with great manliness, taken a liberal interest in a change of the system. But it will be of no use to make eloquent speeches such as I listened to a few minutes ago. You are listened to and have your triumph here ; but all that won't do ; and therefore I say, that you. the strongest .Ministry which has yet existed, hove all in your own passer. You excuse yourselves for not having consulted the ecclesiastical party in Ireland before bringing on this Bid. What harm would it have done to have consulted them ? It would not have bound your oliinion, and, therefore, it could not have done any harm to ha ve con sulted them. I tell y ou t h at you must introduce religion in your measure or it will not be received by the people of Ireland. We are essentially religious, and, however much we may differ on points of religion, infidelity is unknown in Ireland ; there fore I say, make religion the basis of your proceedings, and you may test assured that you will have the protection of a higher power; but do not flatter yourselves that you can in troduce any measures conciliating to the people of Ireland it you exclude religion from your plan. Give Protestantism to Pro testants, give Catholicism to Cathelies. I want nothing ex clusive tar the Catholics that the Protestants have not an equal right to ; but let the same justice be done to all. Intro duce religious instruction into your colleges, hut let the same fair play be shown to all. Give them religious instruction and the chances are, that that which is dominant —the charity of God and lave to man—will predominate, and aided, by fair play, and justice will give a prospect of effecting that reconciliation so desired by all.—(Cheers.) If you fail in this scheme of reli gious education—l say, that even if you fail—you will have fallen in a majestic attempt to inculcate Christian duty ; but if you make the attempt in the right direction, I fear not for the result. It has been shown that the Catholic Bishops of Ireland have pronounced your Bill to be dangerous and immoral, and though you may treat their decision with levity, remember that six millions of the people of Ireland treat it with respect.— ( Cheers.) Recollect, that when you come to talk of educating the Catholics, they pay attention to the decision of their bishops. The bishops tell you that your scheme is dangerous and immo. ral, and they wished to prevent its working out an improper purpose. They had two Protestant professors of divinity in in the College of Belfast, one a Unitarian, and one what they termed the Orthodox. If you want protection in the Presby. terians they have it, but the Roman Catholic Bishops require the means of protecting themselves. You tell me that if the Professor preaches infidelity you can dismiss him, but the Ca tholic B.shop says we will run no such risk. These are the grounds on which we stand and the objection is not an imagi nary on. The Protestant professors in Belfast have been accused of introducing into their lectures mstters favourable to Unitarianism, and this danger is not an imaginary one. Sir R. PEEL, as we understood.—Which of the Professors did so ? Mr. O'CONNELL—The Professors give, no daubs, their own views in their lectures. I mean the chain of moral philosophy. Mr. COLQUHOUN made a remark which was inaudible in the gailery. tldr. O'CONNELL—The ecclesiastical teacher and pro fessor of Greek. Now, if the fact be so, what an excellent argument might be used in this House, " Do you speak of the Professor of Greek. oh, he is only a teacher of languages." Are the Catholic Bishops to be subject to the caprices of a Minister? Have they time to examine into the qualifications of the professor of anotomy, or of any of the sciences. The Catholic prelates are now assembled, and you can communi cate with them. At present they have denounced your Bill as dangerous and criminal, and no Roman Catholic is ill be found to support it• You deserve credit for the manlier in which you carried out another measure respecting Ireland, and though I were not here to express my gratitude, I cannot conceal that that measure was dictated by fair play and justice. Sir, it has been well said •• that education is power." But it is a power of that kind that we cannot be too jealous of the hands :n which it is placed.—(Cheers.) Ido not blame those who think that a mixed education is the better.. 7( Hear, hear. ) But I think that in such cases as you choose to make the ex periment, the religion of all should be respected. —C Hear, hear.) I think that all parties could meet in a mixed educa tion of general philosophy and physical science, if the religion of each was respected.—( Hear, hear.) There is one part of this project which appeors to many to be very formidable, and especially to me who am a thorough Radical.—(Cheers and a laugh.) But, as we haue always found that the smuggler is the best corrector of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, so do I think that the encouragement given by this measure to contrabane teaching with bring the Govern ment to see the necessity of making religious teaching legiti mate and authorised.—( Laughter and cheers.) I have done. I did not ietend to trespass upon the House.—( Hear, hear.) It is my wish to render this measure such as would ensure success.—( Cheers.) I think that you cannot expect to make it succeessessful, unless you attain the support of the Catholic Bishops, who have six millions of the people under their cure. 1' —( Hear.) I think the Bill may be made useful. But I think there ought to be no pressing of the the Committee just now. I trust that we may have a few days' delay, which can make no difference of any moment, whereas the delay would have mportant effects. —( Bear.) It is now past eleven o'clock, and I trust the Committee will not be pressed. If it is, I will divide the House. lam desirous of taking part in every 'llea sure which may so improve the Bill as to enable me to give it my support.—( Hear. ) I would de anything to put an end to the disaffection in that country.—( Much cheering.) But, Sir, there is great physieal suffering in that country, whit h may lead to the most frightful evils, before many of us here shall have been months in our graves. ('The Hon. an d L earne d Gentlemen sa t d own am i dst loud cheering. ) Sir R. INGLIS had not intended to trouble the House, nor would he have done so but for the statement of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman respectin g the ease o f G a lil eo. The Hon. and Lear ne d G ent l eman had said that it was by the as. sistanee of the Sovereign Pontiff that Galileo was enabled to establish the truth of the Copernican system. The lion. and Learned Gentleman must have counted upon the ignorance of the Houre when he made that statement.—( Cheers and laughter.) He must have thought that no one but himself ever knew the history of Galileo—(Cheers and a laugh) —or that if other Members had ever known that history they must by this time have forgotten it.—( A laugh.) The Hon. Gentleman ascribed to Leo the Fifth the power of proceeding and of afterwards assisting, Galileo. But the fact was that Galileo was imprisoned in 1615, and Leo the Fifth did not commence to reign until 1645.—(Hear, hear.) He thought the Hon. and Learned Gentleman trusted to the luck of the moment, and relied to the absence of historial memory from the House.—(Cheers and laughter.) Any one who knew the history of Galileo would recollect that it was not because his doctrine was opposed to the Scriptures that he was punished, but because they were opposed to the Church.—( Cheers. ) The Hon. awl Learned Gentleman Paid that Galileo was in prison but three days, instead of three years. The time made little difference ; but the fact was, that Galileo was imprisoned in 1615, and he was still there in 161.7.—( Cheers arida laugh.) The Right Hon. Baronet again apologised for having risen at all, and thanked the House for its indulgence.—( Hear.) Mr. O'CONNELL begged leave to explain. The Right Hon. Baronet had misunderstood him, or had not heard him, for he had said that Pope Leo V. was a Cardinal at the time when Galileo was imprisoned.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. S. CRAWFORD rose amidst loud cries of " Divide." He was disposed to regard the Government measure as one of great benefit to the people of Ireland. The assertion of the Hon. Member (Mr. O'Connell) that the people of Ireland were bound by the opinions and doctrines of the Roman Catholic Bishops was an aspersion on the people of that country, who instead of being held in such a domination by any man, or any body of men, whatever might be their influence, ought to act and think for themselves. He was of opinion that the Land lords and Tenants Bill, in its present form, would not sat i s f y the wants of th e peop l e of eland. Ile should support the measure of the Government. Sir A. BROOKE wished to correct a statement which had been made by the Hon. Member ( Mr. O'Connell), that two murders had recently been committed in the county of Fer managh. Not only had no murder been committed recently, but within the memory of man no murder had been caused through agrarian disturbances. He did not mean to say that there had not been threatening notices, but during the last twenty years he did not believe there had been either an agra rian outrage or a murder.—( Hear, hear.) Lord C. HAMILTON said the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) during a great part of his address wished to show that he was doing the bidding of others, and said that all he wanted was fair play. Ile ( Lord C. Hamilton) was of opi nion that many measures which had been proposed for the benefit of Ireland, had been opposed and ultimately defeated by those whom they were intended to be nefit. If the whole conduct of the Government had not evinced fair play, he hoped the Hon. Gentleman, when he next addressed the House, would give his definition of it. He admitted that he had correctly pictured the miserable condi tion of the people, but it should be borne in mind that the Ro man Catholic Church received a revenue, in proportion to their number, larger than any other country, and it should be also recollected that large sums were raised from the popula tion to aid that agitation which the Hon. Member thought necessary. He was of opinion that the choice of those to edu cate youth should be left to their parents and guardians. Mr. HOPE said that it was his opinion that as this amend ment was opposed entirely to the Bill, it was entitled to the support of those who opposed the measure. Mr. SHAW said that he would feel great reluctance in op. posing the motion of his Noble Friend. He could perceive no difference between endowing their theological professors out of the Consolidated Fund and obliging them to be main tained by means of compulsory fees. He should therefore op pose the amendment. Mr. HINDLEY rose, amidst loud cries of "Oh, oh," and "Divide." He said, that having presented 1,200 petitions against the Maynooth grant, as opposed to the voluntary sys tem, and the Hon. and Learned Member for Cork having as serted in his place in that House, on a former occasion, when that grant was opposed by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln, that if pressed to a division he would vote against it, on the voluntary principle, he did not think that he was now justified in stating that those petitions had raised a senseless clamour. He desired to know if the Hon. and Learned Gen tleman still adhered to that opinion. Mr. O'CONNELL said that he certainly included the peti tions of nspr t e h s e e m nt t e o d .m by or t r h o e w !l o o o n o . tain Ge i r o it g lem th a e n m , o a s n t d oo h t e ra c g o e u o ld us e pr a y om ue! nies against the Roman Catholic religion. The House then divided, when there appeared— For the amendment 49 Against it Majority —l4O On our re-admission to the gallery we found Mr. NV YSE on his legs, stating that he was w illi ng to post pone* motion which he had on the paper for that evening re specting the professorships of the intended colleges, till the bringing up of the report in the Committee. Mr. O'CONNELL hoped that the amendments would be printed, and that all further proceedings on the measure would be postponed till that day week. Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought the suggestion of the Hen. Gentleman a good one, and hoped the Right Hon. Ba ronet would accede to it. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he was perfectly ready to go on, but in compliance with the wish which had been ex eLssuedN,AlieThlcad A no s o y bLe u cr to accede titoptEheßapLpltiTcNatioTnlc A second reading of this Bill. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, after a period of ten years, it had been proposed that this system should be altered. Five years had been proposed, but he thought that ten years would be a better period. Mr. BARNEBy was only anxious that there should be a complete fulfilment of the object.—( Order, order.) Sir J=AMES GRAHAM was only anxious for a fair state ment of the case, and if any special case were to be made out, it might be considered when the Bill went into Committee. Lord ASHLEY only desired that the Bill should he read a second time pro forma, but he would desire that it should be ennimitted to-morrow. • - The Rill was then read a second time: — ' j PAUPER LUNATIC A S YL4,14 \-114.L (S 9, Pk Tr). On the motion that this Bill bd,riad a second firrie,,kkreflore. Mast sea said that h' thought it ..be_tutti-e-ifht`fo con sider how the interests of the poor. • .14 ite ( lagAcT ASHLEY said that i n this . : !re very care id been taken to rn,ke the Bill as perfect as possible, and he thought the Bill might safely be read a second time. Mr. ESCOTT was proceeding to say a few words, when he was corrected by Sir JAMES GRAHAM, who told him that the Hon. Member must be under some misapprehension, as the two &Is dirt not go together. The Bills were then read a second time. IRISH LUNATIC ASYLUMS BILL. Upon the motion that the Speaker do now leave the chair, Mr. BROTHERTON objected, as he said he foresaw the speech the Noble Lord near him (Lord Clements) would male ~ —( Laughter.) Sir T. FREMANTLE hoped the Bill would be allowed to be proceeded with. The further consideration of the Bill was then postponed. The House then went into Committee on the Timber Shins BM. 'I he clauses were all agreed to without any discussion, and the Bill was reported. The Assessed Taxes Composition Bill passed through Com mittee. The Bills of Exchange Bill was postponed till Wednesday. The %Vest India Islands Bill war reported. SIR HENRY POTTINGER. The report on Sir Henry Pottinger's Annuity Bill was brought up and laid on the table. On the report of the Seal-office Abolition BM beire brought up, An Hos. MENIBER observed that forty Members were ri,,t present. and moved that the House be counted. The House was accordingly cleared for a division, and thirty-nine having been found present, when Sir J. Graham entered just in time to be counted as the fortieth, amid laud cheers and laughter. The Bill was then reported. COMMONS ENCLOSURE (ALLOWANCES) BILL. 'I his 13ill was also reported, and the House adjourned at half past Twelve. THAMES GRAND REGATTA. The great meeting at Putney, which is looked forward to wick an extraordinary degree of interest its the aquatic circles, will coin. mence this day. The Committee have judiciously arranged the sport in the following order : FIRST DAY. The Apprentices' Match, for a Coat and Badge. Three heats ; the first tw. boats in each heat to row in the final heat. First heat —Prince, Campbell, Doyle, and Stanley. Second heat—M'Cla rence, WKenney, George Driscol, and G. Pocock. The Tradesmen's Challenge Plate, for four-oared boats. Two heats ; the first three boats in the first heat to contend in the se cond, or grand beat.—The Confidence Club, Richmond ; the Lam. both Aquatic Club, the Avon Club, and the Sceptre Club. A Pair of Silver Cups, for pair -oared boats (gentlemen amatefirs. Three beats; the first two boats in each heat to row in the final heat. —Messrs. S. Wallace, Leander Club, and Peacock, Sets'. tors' Clab ; Messrs. Breedon and Buckle, Oxford University; Messrs. Cloves and Hill, Cambridge University ; Messrs. Strange and Cox, Oxford University Rooms; Messrs. Julius and Bunsstead, Leander Club ; Messrs. H. Chapman, —; and Warnsley, Nep tune Club ; Messrs. Arnold and Mann, Cambridge University; Messrs. Dodd and Peachey. Ariel Club. A prize of 50 son. for watermen (scullers). Three heats. The first two boats in each heat to contend in the final one. First heat—T. Goodrum, Millbank ;D. Coombes, Milbank ;J. Leach, Vauxhall ; Bartlet, Vauxhall ; May, Westminster bridge; Po. cock, Lambeth. Second heat—Cook, Hungerfo:d; Kitley, Hun ,gerford ; Robins, Horslcydown ; Forest, Greenwich ; T. Phelps, Fulham ; T. Coombes, Milbank. SECOND DAY (WEDNESDAY.') Silver Challenge Cup for sculls (gentlemen amateurs).—Three heats. The A rat two boats in each to row in the third, or grand heat. The first and second heat only to be rowed on this day. Messrs. 'l'. Soane, Thetis Club; Russell, Cambridge Rooms; Conant, Oxford University ; S. Wallace, Leander Club; Peacock, Scullers' Club; A. M'Leod, —; Kennedy, Smilers' Club ; W. M. Wes trop, Chapman, —; J. IL Bumstead, Leander Club ; ('olquhoun, Leander Club. A new wherry, given by the lessee of Vauxhall Gardens, with 60/. added from the regatta funds, for pair -oared watermen. The first two boats in each heat to row in the grand heat. Three heats. First heat—J. Phelps, Fulham, and J. Maynard, Lam. beth ; C. Hill, Hungerford, and Parry, Lambeth ; R. Coonabes, Milbank, and Wilson, Wapping; Liddy, Wandsworth, and Men. sam, Richmond ; J. Godfrey, Strand-lane, and Meakiff. Horse. ferry; H. Green, Lambeth, and T. Braithewait, Hungerford. Second heat—R. Newell, Horsleydown, and Barrow, Bankside, J. Doubledee, Lambeth, and C. Everard, Old Barge House; H. Shelton, Lambeth, and G. Campbell, Westminster-bridge ; Max. well, Custom-house, and H. Campbell, Lambeth; J. Dodd, Hun. gerford, and J. Everard, Blackfriars ; F. Lett, Lambeth, and Kipping, Hungerford. The Gold Challenge Cup tin - Gentlemen Amateurs, Eight oared Boats. Three heats. The first boat in each heat to row in the grand heat.—St. George's Boat Club, the Oxford University, the Neptune Club, Camb►idge University Subscription rooms. A Purse for Landsmen in Four-oared Boats. 20/. to the first, I ill. to the second, and 51. to the third. Three heats. The first tw•o in each heat to row in the grand heat.—Walker, Cotes, Mar. tin, Sheen, and Smith ; Greenaway, King, Sewel, Newham, and ltecres Sheppard, Chide, Ilaroack, Prince, and another • Waite, G. Wright, W. Wright, Bctren, and Gradrick ; Cox, Pocock, P.-tors, Peters, and another ; Standerwick, Saunders, Cashey, Rea buy, and Lavender. THIRD DAY (THURSDAY). The Gentlemen:Amateur Scullers' Match —final heat. The Champion Prise, 100 sous., open to all tire World ; FaLIT. oared Boats.—Three heats; the first boat in the first heat and the two first in the scoond heat to row in the grand heat. The Lord Ravensworth, of Ness castle—A. Clasper, W. Clasper, R. Clasper, E. Hawkes, and Richard Clasper, coxswain. Sons of the Thames London Crew—Robert Newel, W. Rubins, J. Doubledee, W. Pocock, and E. Maynard, coxswain. Land London Crew— Thomas Coornbes, Thos. Goodrum, John Phelps, Robert Coornhes, and Hasid Coombes, coxswain. The Merry Monarch, London— W. Campbell, J Maynard, J. Leach, E. Lett, and W. Moulton, coxswain. The Endeavour, of Hammersmith—Jas. White, Geo. Wright, Win. Wright, W. 11. Beffen, and G. Goodrick. Silver Challenge Cup for Four oared Boats, Gentlemen Arne teurs.• -Three heats ; the first twos boats in each heat to contend in the grand heat :—St. George's Boat Club, the Leander Club, Col lege of Civil Engineers, the Thetis Club, Oxford University, the Neptune Club, the Royal Academy Club, the Nautilus Club, and the Waverly Club. The sports will conclude with an eight.oared " scratch" race fur silver medals, in one grand beat. The races will commence at three o'clock on the first day, half an hour later on the second, and at four on the last clay, and will follow each other in rapid succession. It has been arranged, in order that the public may have an opportunity of distinguishing the boats, that each rower or crew shall come to the committee's boat, which will be stationary, a short distance above Putney- bridge, on the Middlesex side, and receive such sized colours to place in the bow of their boat as may easily be discerned. The whole of the races will be started from Putney-bridge; the sculls and pair oars at Hammersmith-bridge, but the fours and eights runn ing to Chiswick Eyot. No boats will be allowed to accompany the races ; and a strong party of the police will be on the shore and on the river to preserve order. THE LATETIJU EL AT GOSPORT. The following note has been addressed to us by Mrs. Hawkey ; and we willingly print it, because it appears to us very essential that all the particulars of the latt unfortunce affair should be be. fore the public:— Mrs. Hawkey presents her compliments to the edior of the Meriting Post, and in reference to a recent promise a hers to him of returning to this subject at a fitting opportunity, she now, in perlormance thereof, begs, in the first place, to refer him to her statement, which, by the advice and direction of her counsel in the law, she made on Tuesday last before the Coroner's inquest, wherein the great original causes of the melancholy occurrence art put forth upon oath, with the most strict impartiality. In the second place, and with respect to the circumstances that attended the duel (of which the evidence before the inquest gives only a very partial and imperfect account, derived entirely from the adverse party!, Mra. Hawkey begs further to inform the editor on the most competent authority:- 1. That the challenge emanated from Mr. Scion (and not from Mr. Hawkey), in consequence of the latter having, while the former was quitting the b a ll. room on th e Monday night preceding, avthg admi nisteredto told tia( (Air. Hawkey) (or something ta "That e a ry lig l ikeh Lig ht cavalry one man could ne ver give satisfaction, words to that effect. or mix himself up with an infantry on e; " or 2. That the challenge was brought to Mr. Hawkey at half-past seven the following morning by Lieut. Rowles, Royal Navy, wh o on the following evening addressed a letter on the su bj ect to Lieut. ‘ which was speedily got h o ld o f and sent to l.arthepd Royal ressbya Marines, certainattending medical man of (r. Seton's party, and has been already before the public. This production Mrs. Hawkey leaves to the opinion and judgment of every carrdisl and impartial reader. _ 3. That on the ground Mr. Seton's antagonist receited, but &di put into the hand s o f b oth principals, and die not return that gentleman's first fire. N o t wit h standing which, a c se h c a o r i g 'd ed i , )is wit toi h w o a ul any effort being made to arrest the affair ; the effect of the second fire was the wound to Mr. Seten, which, after the lapse of a fortnight, and a display of chirurgical skill on the part of the attending medical men (which by some professionals of the faculty is pronounced as good, and by many bad), followed by an opera ion, " the most formidable in surgery," by one of the most eminent operators In London, terminated fatally on the tld instant. Mrs. Hawkey leaves it to those gentlemen who are conversant in such affairs to determine how far the second of Mr. Se:on was, by the understood laws of duelling, justified in permitting his friend to deliver a second shot after his first shot had been received and not returned by his antagonist, :rho thereby received two shots, but de livered only one. According to the opinions of many officers with whom she has conversed on the point, it seems certain that Mr. Seton's second, instead of allowing the second shot, ought to have immediately withdrawn his friend from the ground; and that by his failing to do so, he was guilty of a dereliction of his duty as a second, which has brought upon him the awful respon s ibi l i ty of having been himself, in truth, the cause of the fatal termination et' he duel. mu l r ' d h e e r,, Co ag ro a z i i n e s r r 's L i i z e iq o u r e e s n t ao h t a s v ii it a ig wk r e e y tu a r o n r e l d p3 a „ ; e ( r b d y ie ,, t ,b o i f " obWiltlrf verdict for moment tanor,igeltiletrurnrtiobtuicbhaedl. Mrs.the H ca a s w e ke w y il w l of c tl i c ur r .r e si f et o ° i ' c o l , est a o b i s s t t a rici i a n fti tYom commenting on the malignant manner its which these two unfortunate gentlemen have been pursued in their absence by certain persons of this place, and on the various means (due and undue) which have been resorted to for the object of procuring witnesses for their prosecution—matters which will be hereafter commented on by abler and more competent pens than hers, and at a proper time and in the proper place be exposed to public animadversion by able counsel. She will merely say, that in a case of an "affair of honour," she Itelieves such proceedings are without the authority of example or precedent of any descrip tion.... 3, King's-terrace, Southsea June 19 1845. —Pct. SMALL D EBTS.— L u 'Brougham's Bill f o r th e better securing the payment of small debts , provides that a i e n red 2 itoz obtaining jud gment or order in respect of a , debt not ez may summon hi s d e b tor before a Commissioner of Bankrup g ts 2 0 or Court of Requests, &c., who may order payment of the debt out of the debtor s ' s a l ary, pay, or pension, Sec. Where several Courts exist in the same town, dm, the business is not to he transferred from one to the other, but the superior Court alone to have juris. diction over debts of greater amount under this Act. The powers of 7th and Bth of Victoria, c. 96, are proposed to be extended to all cases of balances not exceeding 20/. Applications to commis. stoners, &c., need not be made by counsel or attorney, and affi davits in bankruptcy and insolvency may be sworn before keepers of prisons. Into rim orders to persons in custody are to be granted upon petition, without delay, and taxing officers need not be prac tising attorneys. The review of the Second Lire Guards by hi s Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge, the Marquis of London derry, Colonel of the regiment, and a distinguished stall - of officers, which was to have come off this morning on Wimbledon-common, is postponed, in consequence of a grand review of the Household Cavalry and Foot Guards having been appointed to take place before his Majesty the King of the Belgians on Saturday next. .Nlr. Smith, the proprietor of the shooting gallery in Holborn, expired on Thursday morning last, from an abscess, caused by the wound in his back. It may be remembered he was shot last July by the Hon. Mr. Touchet, who was tried and ac. quitted on the ground of insanity:.-,sundey Paper. .~ i _~ tallwaY Ot uP (IRE' tailwaY f a vc- ounr of siged (. I air' facOn r ' 3, ill. diffe ishiog ,rdee n ;eoteh froin § jo y it i'n" ~ in v idual one of place %% ho n itted place .sting t wo , for m e• ng of time UL- gail tbird rER ;F ed ,