The Sun. — London, England, 1844-07-17 00:00:00

iderable iment of Govern - to th e to hare merely led wi ed that to suit Jere had conduct ion that id not to the me• -it - 1g for Lem oriel in poll- :I heard, o be re- lot of Ireland, )f petty ningis" le shape 1.% he I sgi d m ade a party td been Mr. and he- ery cir e, to do O'Dris- magis a gen func- country r)—and kindly a Lord ad ever ter im- Noble se, that of Mr. Ire, and which Diu sub t of an fy Mr. that a in with a most to have Llted by le case )ut the Ight to ter jus- )37 their ele and in the to the Dration des of ESTS report d been hoped one to ImentS Cr this recom ain the he law :t pro )ublin, holies, trust. ;eneral Gently. ,hanks asure, I with !laving :teived. ill Was trough ced a l ed to itself given mown °Alert most 311 t Of nid to this great tboUr. ?rrorS I)%v in Oats such Coil s the selves n the w in- r • tog heai:s of age, were put aside as unable t in the caravan . I n f ants were t orn f rom low k-aiiers' br easts, c hild ren o f s i x oe seven years o f l it , re wrun g f rom the grasp of their parents. Wh at : 0 I PerisTo ma i ntain them was costly, to leave them latched h on the coast was cruel—they were dis grA,4e,,nd they. were the least to be pitied. The lid b. b et out, men, women , an d c hildren, halt' naked s r ef oot. The w ea kly were dri v en on by the lash, re ' n g were re s t ra i ne d f rom fli g ht by r o pes and s,llk Thus they m arc h e d h un d re ds of miles, across It t ,i e r A ning sand s o f t h e d esert , some torture d by agony di ; ; some fell do wn d ea d, o th ers perished by linger ksii e ase ; others were knocked on the head ; and 1 11, jilt travellers had stated that you might track the' t i s ' s rftvan through the pathless wilderness by bun vend thousands of human skeletons. At length they sl ui at the coast, where they were obliged to wait for ttis ave- ship. Disease, superinduced by fatigue and ar dent, speedily thinned their numbers. The slave tki e h ' e ngth arrived. The captain made his selection, ts t ,,,,se those whose strength sickness had least im qo; the sickly were rejected. How were they dis -1114,f e They were either put out of the way or hb ar Lt° Perish by famine. An equal number to those had perished by famine, disease, or violence, Iltp ei r k .erery five h un d r ed that went on board the k k h e i c itP five hundred more had perished before they tiled ~i t But what were the horrors which pre "ere ..""e voyage to what these unfortunate beings k a ied.to end ure during th a t f a t a l t ra nsit? It was b o n ° 4 'n that a quarter or one-third more were put bo tt . d 4 rd the slave-ship than would be tolerated on 'itti "3' other vessel. The result was, they fell w t ,, e n 's m disorder, and died a horrible death, if they ilk,e.llo.t thrown overboard. The captains of these NI,11 1 1 ",Ps invariably took more negroes than the vessel '4 % , o 'd, for the purpose of making up any deficiency t tia t :Nnetice of death. If death ensued from these Ott 'Qs, the dead bedies were thrown overboard; but b'terb: 44 hot all, for sometimes the living were thrown tile!,_ r d too, fo r w h e n the slave-trader thought, from 'ts i ° R (l :` of the s l aves , that they could not out-live the b` , that fate was sure to await them. This had b y t ie means an uncommon occurrence, and that the 11 even done by Englishmen, when years back The : ta re-trade w as tolerated in this country. 'la C i n sequence of all this was, the raging of esi„ en board the vessel ; and instances had ", ° ,.wn where opthalmia had raged to such an `pal t i l tu all no person on board could steer the ship, b ; 'vessel had been lost. The space allotted tot tti -s on board ship was so small, that the negro had 'eati to m . Itch roo m as a man in his coffin. In moderate ' l ,ly ; air was given to the negroes from the hatch kj. a t When storms arose, and the hatchways were sie t !i to be c l ose d, i t was h orr ibl e t o con t e mplate the I tiff oe i°4 of the negroes, hundreds of whom died from ko(s ati ". From all these various causes it was lie n that one-third of the negroes embarked on the tt c if Africa p er i s h e d b e f ore th e y arrived on the coast l itio ti t ri es- The ravages thus committed in the popu keonn- °I Africa could not be less than from 400,000 to t il,e,7 e very year Let any man calculate from that N' l ntnt of devastation . which must have followed ;:" t he last fifty years on the population of Africa. t?i 0 "° 11 1d venture to say, that if all the other kit t f 3 which the whole human race had corn- IN ,s from . the creation of the world till the they - day, were brought into an aggregate, 4 01 w ° l lld - not equal—certain was he they could lei s f l eeed—the amount of the guilt of the African Zlt;,: t itd e e.—( Hear, hear.) Was it not, therefore, the rtsl" every:Government, and of every nation on whom tenee had bestowed the means of putting an end 4 44 4 ",nlonstrous traffic, to employ those means to the ) Go v e xtent ?—( Bear, hear)—and, if ever there was a • t z„lN' ti nnent or a nation upon which that duty was pressing, that Government was the cpCuttleut of England, and ours was that nation.— t i rit"i t h tt ,) He admitted A- ' that much had been done. The bad overnment and the British nation could look ," 1 / 4 (1 rn . `, t , [l satisfaction to the efforts which the country , u 4s -4 1 ,' ‘ e in this cause. Partial success had certainly tpte"lined. The late Government had done their thin respect.—(Hear, hear.) When they came ' i biii () ' ee in 1830, they inherited the fruits of the t tra de those who had gone before.them. The slave !ittd b.onder the British flag had been abolished, tt li sc i a ,s, utterly extinct. Under the French flag „,, e lteat, :, s e,a prohibited, and existed only to a partial miverettuough :great use was made of that flag to slave trade. With regard to Spain and Portu cortuptll the Brazils, we had treaties with Spain and es li a a t 'tbe treaties were insufficient. Those coun- Ogsgi s ; Passed a law prohibiting their subjects from b iter, 'Liu the slave-trade; but that law was a dead and S „Ye had likewise treaties with the Netherlands, 'Pa h de t w ,",,_ t end Denmark. There was no great slave i t i i tl ey lladW et t un der the flag of Holland, and none at theon flag s of Sweden and Denmark. When 14 Fr an -rne into office important events had just occurred i,, ce • Th e Sovereign of that country had sue ", 1) .- t he Crown from the free choice of a free peo /Pithttc4ver was in the hands of men deeply imbued h ille et ." spirit and the principles of liberty. That being t he might it appeared to them that the Government of 'fie ▪ Inight be induced to enter into engagements with he w s erernment of England on that subject—their ad h ad been met. The French Government kam a Jqfully and readily accepted .their pr0 ..1 .. 1 111 4 d for a treaty, by which the right of searc h 'tta• reviprocally gran ted by each nation in their 1 14, 4 l atitudes for the purpose of putting an end to the That treaty, as far as the slave -trade was tist r ned, had been undoubtedly successful . . It was not 'tes t. :"' s t ' as had been asserted, that in that instance the catihati . "ee bad been all on one side. There was a on feeling in France that France had been called avt to make concession to England which England had ilo 4l alle to France. Ile kn ew of no quality more ep,i' l lrable than that national feeling .which so pre -1:1a-t4'iltlydistinguished the French nation.—(Cheers.) C r a s great a sacrifice had been made on the part of eat 13 • main, when she permitted her commercial navy 4 visited and searched by the ships of war of France,.. to be had : i been made by France in permitting her ships . "( v iL t ` ai an d searched by the ships of war of England b eneti _ except to accomplish such a " n t Purpose as the abolition of the slave-trade, it ttt az a sacrifice that no British Minister would have dared (4 .. Propose ; but " they had laid aside all feelings l e J:alotis,y for the attainment of this benevolent object. tu:Pabl gimdar events had happened. There the ordi etir cour se of the succession had been changed. There ts ti _ n est had arise n between a Queen supporting free st. atitu ti onal principles, on the one hand, and a Prince 14Prted by the party of despotism on the other. Eng. to (41 ; s Y l zpathising with the struggles of a great people of the freedom, had thrown her weight into the =tale these Queen and. Constitutional Government, and, from The; thus given to that cause, it had triumphed. ow „_,Y felt that the Spanish Government of thst day th t 'll them a debt of gratitude, and they had called on ° Pay it, not by giving to them any sordid advau• qi Political or com mercial. No; but they had said trad e us a better treaty for the suppression of the slave. We call upon you, who have so recently engaged 4 g ` °ri mis straggle t o obtain constitutional freedom ti,elNtrselves, to co-operate with us in rescuing the m & h u t ' Africa fiom a t h ra ldom worse than that under Friend You yo urse l ves h ave been suffering. His Noble Lord Cl aren d on , t h en Mr. Villier., who was at NI V il e our Ambassador in Spain, had exerted that kkrtul k nowledge for which ho was so remarkable, 14 ki l l treaty had been signed, in 1835, which gave e pee ,Powers to enforce on Spanish subjects obedo• "IN "" those laws w hich had been enacted in (311 to this matter as long ago as 1817. That treaty tt kis Pr tr ,",,,tteed a great effect in discouraging the slave ' l sPo s . - Pilba. In Cuba, in 1835, the number of slaves Tt h a d averaged 40,000 a year, and in 1838 that num 'sst,ao, been reduced to 28,000. Events similar to Kke e ; w hich had taken place in Spain had likewise taken i .,s 4 si tts : 4 Portu ga l. There the dispute was a Queen and \ , lis,,, l is t ational maxims on the one side, and a usurping . ICT and despotism on the ether. The course which 4,, c a a do ted - in Spain we had adopted in Portugal. s 11 1 ; 4 1 , exeprted (flir t influence on the side of liberty, and 6 -4 1 ) 4,7 our assistance the cause of liberty had tn.- a We had made to the Portuguese Government . ' ; t4 te t- ' appeal that we had made to the Spanish txo \'‘a.ie eat, but not with the same success. The slave -4,41'17 w ere stronger in Lisbon than they were in C o ' , li s iti. ", t housli he would say, that if the appeal had 1 ' 1 , - "„ 4 "e to the Government of Cuba, instead of to the h 's n emof Madrid, he believed we should t i • " a il as little success as we had met with d s i t' l 4 The Government had then come ~,gieir , ;" Parliament and stated the engagements wit _nytugai had entered into, and the manner with tai of ''e treated those engagements. The Parliament h:P, Go- that the cause was a good o ne, and gave 1a414,1w those powers which the Portuguese o tvest' had refused to give them by treaty. That was n k t 4 4 , step gain e d, as it gave them the power of check slavetrade, carried on under the Portuguese tO 1; 4 40 . -I :kanner which, before that, they had been unable es t Pos s 'ile naval officers on the coast of Africa, for the . 'lefs of destroying the slave•trade with the native t, ll '°o ' 411(1 ,,Ipliktl, and taken possession of the slave ha ' T he had given up the property f o u nd there a y nd bad taken the slaves to Sierra Leone : 41 ° ( L. , ' them. The Government had a uthorised ap t - -' this. That step had 'truck the greatest dis es at • It:telitthey o s n lave traders of Cuba. He had reason to 1, vi th In consequence, they had been about to with „.-tig en. r h. er eor capital from the slave-trade, as they could no the traffic with any hopes of success. s e 4 1 , , is of those operations, to judge from the . official . A k t)ei• ` 1 „, 41 been to produce a great diminution in the )31 4 Nsi - k. (4 slaves landed - on the islands and coasts of 94 The number of slaves landed in . 1838 was—in 22 t)00 '" 0 , and in Cuba 28,000, making a total of 4 4 1 1 ti• rt ec i v . bile, in 1840, two years afterwards, the number 'kin Into Brazil was 14,000, and into Cuba 14,100, 1 , * 11 4 40.1 7 4 4 ia8:8otal of 28,700, instead . . of 122,000, which it e• a diminution of 83,00 J in the e er er -wl3 - d with that year Leeq la we slaves imported, as compared t, 3 „ . 11 , 0 t , a sudden and casual diminution. It had by Mr. Vandeler that from the years 1817 ? i t ' 4 4. 4 -s h a t a h enuniber of slaves imported into the island of 1. 8 , as been from 39,000 to 40,000 every year ; in 3 :n a, 1839, 56,00 0 2,5 (tit 1842, B:o42th:a have been n l .d 4 Ai , m o s o i O nfais ; rhe i ad n s 1,1 2 th o w s :s i helieved to have been only 11,000; and in t fi h t t ,4 o o o ; . in T h ni .e_ P n " u r in te ber d Imported was state into 14,000. 8rzil in 1833 was n which Parliament had received would v t 4 4l le pail!- iut er il to judge, a great diminution had taken r o ay e i'lltnber of slaves transported from Africa e k - rri c a e • r. Treaties had been concluded with almost the tr aatie _ 'Fan state, except the northern one— . when t E P'int e _ with the other powers of Europe were signed Nnlea rest of to go further. The treaty with France con ktissi4" article by which those powers had engaged to te r th e 8 ° ,i f such . of the other powers to accede to a treaty th e PPres ston 441-1 th e treatie s of Aix-la-Chapelle. These Powers iliqtrittwould adhere to the spirit of their previous b b i l ir ,s--they engaged to sign the treaty which .'lned becweeu England find France, but _ • .E SIT N, LO:` DON, WEDNESDAY. EVENT G. JULY 17, is 44. wished, as a matter of diplomatic form, to have a new treaty drawn up. To this England and France formally assented. The English Government wished to afford the French Government an opportunity of remedying an imperfection in the French treaty, for in that treaty there was only a zone of sixty miles round Cuba, Porto Rico, Brazil, Madagascar, and along the western coast of Africa, in a latitude of 15 deg. N., - to a lat. of 15 deg. S. But these limits excluded a considerable portion of the southern coast, in both of which the slave-trade was carried on vigorously. It - was proposed to the French Government to include It, these parts; they acceded to it, and the new treaty would include the whole African coast as well as the West Indian seas. The new treaty was drawn up, and presented to the Austrian, Russian. and Prussian Governments, and when the late Government were going out of office, and after a good deal of negOtiation, the treaty was within a few days of being signed. Russia started a few trifling points, but these the English Government were willing to accede to. The treaty would have been of great advantage, and it was the ultimate object of the British Governmere, when all the Great Powers of Europe had signed the treaty, to present it the Northern States of America, and he thought he had a right to assume that the application could not have been altogether unsuccessful.---(Hear, hear.) When Austria, Prussia. and Russia, as well as England and France, submitted to the right of search, there were strong grounds for believing that America would not refuse ; at all events something might 'have been dune by the United States Government to assist and co-operate. He considered that, as far his know ledge extended, things had not gone forwards but backwards, and that great strides had been made by their Government, not towards the suppression, but towards the revival of the slave-trade. The Noble Lord then went on to say that he expected the treaty between England and the Five Powers would have been signed immediately after the late - Government left office, but such was not the case ; it had not been signed for four mouths after, and when signed, the French Government, because of an address from the French Chambers, re fused to ratify—a thing unprecedented in the annals of diplomatic intercourse, and which the British Govern ment should not have passed over without recording their solemn protest against it. Nothing could justify a Government receding from the terms agreed upon and signed by its Plenipotentiary, except that it was proved that a Plenipotentiary acted against or beyond his instructions. The next blow the cause of freedom received, was that letter of the Lords of the Admiralty, in May, 1842, in which bloskade on the coast of Africa was forbidden, although the Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir R. Peel) afterwards declared that the blockade of the coast of Africa was the mode de vised by the Government as the most effectual for the suppression of the stave-trade.—(Hear, hear.) The British Government, in that unfortunate Ash burton negotiation, not only to a great ex tent surrendered that portion of territory which rightfully belonged to this country, but gave up all claim on the American Government for the fulfilment of that article of the treaty of Ghent which they would have been otherwise bound to fulfiL There was, therefore, no ground for calling on the American Government to do anything further towards the suppression of the slave trade. He had been informed that in 1843 a greater number of slaves had been imported into the West Indies and Brazil than for many preceding years. He believed in the sincerity of the Govern ment to put down slavery, but differed very widely from them as to the efficacy of the measure. He feared that the blockading of the entire coast of Africa, as sug gested by the Government, was physically impossible ; nor would, he felt assured, experienced naval officers concur in the practicability of such a scheme. He be lieved that the whole naval force which the American, French, and English Government could collect on that coast would be altogether insufficient. Just let the House consider the immensity of the distance, from north to east, along the coast—why it was out of the question. In addition to the distance, it should be observed that on many parts of the coast there were clusters of islands, so that a cruiser might be within a mile of a slave-ship and not see her. And then when a slaver had escaped outside the zone, which the anti-slave squadron watched, she was quite safe until she reached her desti nation. But there was a still further difficulty. Ten degrees south latitude below the equator, and all along the western coast, there was no mutual right of search established between France and England. A vessel bearing the French flag would not, therefore, be searched in this region, but this would not signify if the right of search prevailed on the coast of the Brazils ; but one defect of the treaty of 1841 was, that the right of search was not guaranteed on that coast. He would not allude to the question of slave grown sugar, which had so recently occupied the atten tion of the House. They had been told by the Govern ment that there was the most cordial assurances and feelings of friendship between this and the French Go vernments. No man rejoiced more heartily at it than he did, but certainly he must say, that there had, been as yet no very brilliant or beneficial results from this union—the fruit was not worthy of the tree. — (Hear, hear.) He found that it was a combination on the part of France rather to put down popular institu tions, and erect in its stead a military despotism. He feared the two countries had rather combined to enslave the free than to free the enslaved. It was said that Brazil and Portugal had been assenting parties to a recent treaty. Those two powers had entered into contracts of a most stringent character with this country not to carry on the slave- trade, and yet, in spite of those contracts, they had done so. Only let England and France, if they were united as it had been said they were—let them go to Spain, and use the whole weight of their united influ ence, and if they did so, he did not hesitate to say that they would obtain from Spain and Portugal the engage ments they had a right to expect, but which had hitherto been withheld. He thought it was in the power of those two countries, if they chose to be in earnest, to obtain, if not an immediate suppression of the slave-trade, something that would ere long ensure so desirable a re sult. The rulers of Spain had done something them selves towards putting an end to slavery. Verdinand VII. had made an order that all ships carrying on the slave-trade should be confiscates, and their captains sent for ten years to the Philippine Islands. He hoped that the union between France and England, of which they had heard so much, would be directed to the accomplish ment of an object that would re dound to the glory of both. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated on a former occasion that one of the great inducements for him and his colleagues to take office was the desire and hope of obtaining posthumous fame, and he did not ex elude from that the approval of conscience, which was the highest reward. But the Right Hon. Baronet said that one means by which they hoped to obtain future fame was by conferring benefits on their countrymen and on mankind generally.—jrear.) The present Government were placed in that situation that they could not do the first. They could not emancipate the industry of the country, because they were prevented from doing that by the prejudices of their supporters. — (Hear, hear.) They could not give content to the six millions of Catholics in Ireland, because they were pre vented from doing that by the obstacles which they had in former times placed in their own way. With respect to the improvement of the condition of the' country, the vessel of the State was following in the wake, and not leading other nations. But there was one field still open to them, in which they might gather unfading laurels— they might abolish the slave-trade. If they attempted to do so they would have the country unanimous with them, and .the powers of so great a country, when exerted in so noble a cause, would be sure to succeed. If the present Government could say that they had in their time put an end to crimes which their predecessors could not effect—if they could have that to say they would bequeath to posterity a name that would exist to the most distant ages.—(Hear, hear.) But if it should be recorded of them that the slave-trade had been put down in the time of their predecessors, but that it raised its odious head again in theirs, they would obtain a fame compared with which 'the most absolute oblivion would be preferable. The Noble Lord concluded an eloquent speech by moving for a return, showing the total number of African negroes landed for the purposes of slavery on the islands and on the continent of America, from the year 1815 to the year 1843, both inclusive ; distinguishing the number so landed in each of those years, and distinguishing also the number landed in each year on the territory of each separate state or power. so far as the same can be made up from the documents in the possession of her Majesty's Government. Sir R. PEEL would have cordially concurred in the motion of the Noble Lord, had he not been convinced that it had been brought forward for the purpose of that rhetorical display which they had just witnessed. The Noble Lord, having passed the greater portion of' the session in inactivity, roused himself at the close.—(Hear. hear.) He had exerted himself to find out a motion on which to make a speech, which the most captious Mi nister could not raise any objection to. The Noble Lord, on the 11th of March, gave notice of a motion, the ob ject of which was very important, calling upon the House of Commons to pass resolutions compelling the Government to reject any proposals that might be made by France for the modification of the existing laws. He believed the Noble Lord met with little sanction on that motion from his own side of the House ; and the result was, that he shrunk from the motion, for week' after week he kept postponing it, still declaring that he should bring it on, and when he made that declaration, the countenances of those who sat around him plainly showed their diaappro batioo. But, however, the Noble Lord stated his determination to persevere, and the House was counted out on the day when he was to bring the subject for ward. Now he would ask whether that was not indicative of the opinion of the House on the subject? The Noble Lord seemed to be greatly alarmed by what had taken place, and he had good sense enough to abstain from bringing forward the motion. Now, in considering the question, he would separate all those parts of his speech with re speot to the slave-trade from those which had relation to the conduct pursued by the Government, because it was that upon the first point in which they all iPrtitn concurred,t, that that concurrence should be expressed in a way that could not be mistaken, no t otpfe r theni. In themittingparty differences to detract f rom the weight whole of the first part of the speech of the Noble Lord, he most cordially concurred. He believed that the slave trade was the most iniquitous traffic that was ever_ thought of by the mind of man, and that it engendered more misery and crime thao any public act of an y nation. He did not think that th e Noble Lord had in the slightest degree over-rated the miseries and Isolators that had arisen from the traffic in the bleed and sinews of men. There were two countries, and two only, who were now mainly re sponsible for the continuaeoe of this enormous crime. There was, on the part of every other civilised country, with the exception of two, a desire to co-operate in the suppression of the trade in men.--(llear, hear.) If Spain sad Brazil would zealously apply themselves to the sup prnssion of the slave trade in those parts of the world over which they ,exercised jurisdiction, the slave-trade would be suppronid, 'ranee, 'Arta, -rPenatark, to her honour, led the way—this country, the United States, ! Prussia, Russia, Austria, and every Power, were ready to co-operate in this great work, while those two Powers opposed the suppression of the slave-trade, and effectually stopped the progress of se great a work. Spain and Brazil were the only countries that lent their sanction to this barbarous traffic. They were the only countries that were deriving profit from it. They had the power to suppress it, but with Out their good-will it was impos- I sible, whatever sacrifices they might impose upon the people of this country, eff ctually to succeed. They might do much towards its suppression, but they could not insure perfect success without the assist ance of Spain and Brazil, because they were con stantly counteracted and defeated by the connivance of local authorities. It would be easy to show that Spain and Brazil could suppress it. *Brazil made the attempt in 1840 and 1841, and the effect produced' there was most astonishing and immediate. During the period the Government of Brazil actively interfered to dis courage this traffic there waeke a great diminution of the number of slaves imported to Brazil. With respect to Cuba, the last two years proved that it was 'in the power of an active Government, notwithstanding all the excitements of avarice, to take effectual measures for its suppression. He thought it greatly to the credit of the person who lately exercised power in Spain—he meant General Espartero—that he had appointed an officer to take the command in Cuba, General Valdez, who re fused to participate in the gain of his predecessors, or to connive at it. He discarded the traffic, and the result was extraordinary. During the period that General Valdez was in Cuba, in 1842, the importation of slaves into Cuba did not exceed .3,100, but when he assumed the government it was upwards of 14,000 During the _first years of his government it was 8,000, and in the last .year it was only 3,001). If Brazil had honestly exerted itself in 1840 and 1841 the slave-trade would have been effectually suppressed. He hoped, after the statements that had been made by the Noble Lord, confirmed as they had been by his successors in office, that the Government of Spain would feel that they had a grievous responsibility cast upon them—that the eyes of the whole Qf Europe were turned towards them ; and that such being the case, he trusted they would re-consider the course they had been pursuing, and turn their minds to humanity and justice. But if these higher motives would nut prevail, then he must warn the Government of Spain to look to the con dition of Cuba, a country where their tenour of power was of so precarious a description. The black population of that country were determined to rid themselves of the sufferings and torture they were enduring. There seemed to be a settled and deep determination to eman cipate themselves from the state of slavery in which they at present existed. Those who took part in this had been recently brought from the coast of Africa, men who were unenlightened, and who could not have com bined, but who had come there smarting under a sense of wrong. What he had stated was the truth, confirmed from many sources well entitled to credit ; and if any thing did occur, no suppression of it could be hoped for, except by the most determined application of military force. He trusted, however, he had said enough to show that the public men of this country were not disunited on that great question which the Noble Lord opposite had expressed himself so strongly about, and that on both sides of that House they were hut the representatives and organs of public opinion—that public opinion re acting on almost every other part of the civilised world.—(Hear, hear.) He (Sir Robert Peel) now proceeded to that part of the Noble Lord's ad dress wherein he drew an invidious contrast between the course taken by her Majesty's late and her Majesty's present Government—their principles and their opi nions on this question of the slave-trade; and whatever the Noble Lord had said should not provoke him (Sir Robert Peel) to conceal that which was due to him for the assiduous attention which he had ever paid to this subject.—(Hear, hear.) lie had done' every thing that could be done to invite other nations to co operate with this country for the suppression of the slave trade ; but having admitted thus far, he came pre pared to defend the present Government from the impu tations sought to be cast upon it by the Noble Lord. The first ground of imputation chosen by him was the conduct of the Government to the treaty which had been signed with France, in the year 1841. In the year 1838 France had conferred with this country as to the policy of inviting other countries to adopt, along with them, measures for preventing as much as possible the continuance of the odious slave •trade. France had then, no doubt with the greatest sincerity, united with this country to get other countries to join them in that ex cellent effort. She was willing at that time to concede the right of search—no objection had been made—none at least, of a very strenuous nature—for no sacrifice was asked from her which we were not prepared and willing to make to a much greater extent, and most certainly anything that might be supposed to have the effect of touching her honour, must also have equally touched the honour of England. As to the question of the right of search, where one visit would have had to have been made to the French naval force, several would of course have to be made to ours—our own honour, therefore, was at stake to a much greater extent than the honour of the French flag; but France gave to our proposals at that time, not a reluctant, but a cordial and hearty assent. The treaty was signed by the representative of France, who was armed with full power for that purpose. There was no allegation whatever that that representative had at all exceded the powers entrusted to him. We had every right to expect that a treaty so signed by . a repre sentative having full powers would have been justified, and so far as the King of the French and the Govern ment of France were concerned, he (Sir R. Peel) be lieved that every honest effort had been made in order to the fulfilment of the expectations which they had a right to form, and the - proper anticipations of that treaty.—(Hear, hear.) But certainly feelings . of na tional pride did show themselves to a most extraordinary, perhaps, to an almost alarming extent, and to this circum stance alone did he (Sir R. Peel) attribute the non ratification of that treaty. For the rousing of those feelings he held the Noble Lord himself (Lord Palmers ton) responsible.—(Loud Ministerial cheers.) Between the engagements entered into and the ratification of the treaty embodying them, an important event occurred which terminated the reign of cordial and friendly feel ings which had hitherto prevailed between France and this country. He (Sir R. Peel) would not enter into the policy of the treaty of July the 15th—nor yet of the policy of, the Syrian campaign ; but this he would say, that the engagements entered into by England with the three other Powers, t the exclusion of France—whether justifiable or not—were the cause of those feelines, which arose in France, and which induced insuperable objec tions to her ratific ttion of the treaty. It was not the fault of the Government of France that the treaty had not been ratified—they had a bona fide' intention in re ference to it—but it was the representation of nationa anger in the popular assembly of that country, whichl debarred them from ratifying the _engagements which their Minister had entered into.—(Hear, hear.) Could the Noble Lord haVe forgotten the de bates that took place on this subject in the Chamber of Deputies? Did the Noble Lord forget the part taken by so many of the public men of that coun try? Did he forget the speech made by M. Thiers, the very Minister under whose auspices the negotiation of the treaty was carried on? lie distinctly stated in the Chamber that they stood very differently then than they did when the original arrangements for the treaty were made—that the feeling in. 1838 and 1839 was very different towards England then after the treaty of July, 1841, and the slight thrown on France by it.—(Hear, hear.) That Hon. Deputy also stated that they had a right to attempt at a previous date, in conjunction with England, many thieves they could not, at a subsequent period, even think Of venturing upon ; that in 1831 and 1833 there might have been motives sufficient to justify .concession that he could never admit under after cir cumstances. That language was in 1842, also the lan guage of Berryer, and of many others of the most emi nent men in the Chamber. Then he (Sir R. Peel) said he was justified in charging upon the Noble Lord alone (Lord Palmerston) the non-ratification of the treaty, and the subsequent estrangement and ills that had fol lowed between Franco and this country.—(Trea sury cheers.) The Noble Lord might pride hi:ns-lf on his Syrian aftsir, if he liked ; but he (Sir R. Peel) should tell him plainly that he was the last person who ought to taunt the present Government with difficulties, which, in fact, he (Lord Palmerston) had himself created.—(Cheers) Why, for year after year, the Noble Lord, at the opening of Parliament, had taken credit, in the Queen's speech, on account of the main tenance of a cordial and intimate friendship and good understanding between this country and France. It wa. , for the . Noble Lord himself to state—and he never yet had stated—what was - the reason that this good under standing, of which at one time he was so prone to teetst, no longer existed.—(Loud Ministerial cheers.) But, whatever was the cause of the non-ratification of the treaty, there was no occasion at that moment to inquire. He trusted time, and the proper influence of moterate men on both sides of the channel, were rapidly working their way to a - better state of feeling, and that bad passions were rapidly sinking. to rest.—(Cheers.) The next point on which the Noble Lord had chosen to attack the Government was becausethey , did not think it right to adopt his (Lord Palmerston s) views, with respect to the destruction of the baracoons on the coast of Africa. He (Lord P.) said he had given orders for the destruction of these baracoons, without paying any great regard to what the laws of other countries were. The Noble Lord's only object was to restore the slaves to liberty, no matter how, or by what means. Now he (Sir R. Peel) must say that he thought the far better course in all these matters—whether in our transactions with civilised or with 'savage nations—was to adhere to certain principles—(Hear, hear)—established by the natural laws of equity and justice. There was no doubt we were a powerful country —there was no doubt we could easily enough land upon the coast of Africa, and do almost as we liked ; but he asked the House, he asked the coun try, did the law of nations justify us in such proceedings? —(Cheers.) Why, savage nations might make no de mand for redress, or, if they made it, we might take no heed of it ; but were there not civilised Powers who had interests on the coast of Africa, and who might have to decide whether we were justified in wrongs we might commit, and whether reparation for them ought not, in fairness, to be asked for? The ordinary course in all these matters was the proper one for a Government to take—it was to take the opinion of that legal au thority whose especial office it was to advise the Government in these ,cases, and to see that its policy was kept untainted by wrong or illegality, The Queen's Advocate-General had been applied to fi his advice, and he had replied, " If you have a treaty with a native Prince on the coast, then you may interfere, but not having such treaty, you are clearly not at liberty to destroy the baracoons, and if a murder is committed in your attempting to do so, you are clearly responsible for it." Under those circumstances, the Government cer tainly thought it their duty to give notice to the naval officers on the coast of Africa to refrain from such acts ; but they had, at the same time, empowered them, and urged them to take every opportunity in their power of making such treaties with the native Princes.—(Hear, hear) He 4494 the house, then, if there NM any ground for imputation upon the Government in,thus - ex-- hibiting this country as anxious to respect, both with savage and with civilised powers, those rights which we ever insisted on should be respected in our proper inte rests.—(Ministerial cheers.) He believed the instruc tions given to the cruizers were consistent with law, and such as would command the approval of that Hoivo and of the country—(Hear, hear)—and that the whole con duct of the Government was perfectly consistent with a sincere and , honest desire to suppress the slave-trade on the coast of Africa, and where ever else the legitimate influence of England might be made to extend.—(Cheers.) The next point on which the Noble Lord attacked them was as to a measure which he appeared - to think amounted to a blockade of the coast of Africa. The term blockade could hardly be properly applied to this service—in his (Sir R. Peel's) opinion, that was not a proper form. What was contemplated was an increase of the naval force, in order to prevent the departure from the coast of Africa of vessels laden with slaves. The Noble Lord greatly . diapproved of this plan; but he (Sir R. Peel) entertained strong hope of its success, from the circum stance that it had been recommended by distinguished officers who had served on the coast of Africa, and who all concurred in expressing their confidence in its effi ciency for the object to be attained.- Captain Matsan, an officer well known for his experience and services— (" Hear, hear," from Sir C.- Napier)—and who was most competent to give an opinion, highly approved of the plan. The Noble Lord, by signs, seemed to think an officer disqualified from giving a sound opinion if he happened to have served on the coast of Africa. That gallant officer, and others of equal weight, had ex plained to the Government how the slave-trade was carried on from the variety of sources whence slaves were supplied to the coast, and fetsni the constant and careful watch which was kept on the !British cruizers, so as that • the moment they moved from one point, the shipment and transmission of these un happy beings might instantly be commenced from it. They stated that if the English Go vernment would sustain' a permanent force of greater amount, and under a direct superintending control — taking care that no information should . ever get abroad where those ships should be stationed—they would, in two years, do more for the suppression' of the slave trade, than if they employed five times the amount under the present system. Captain Denman, an officer of great judgment and experience, fully concurred in the views of Captain Matson, as did also Captain Tucker, another name eminent in the naval records of the coun try. Those officers had all given these opinions; and that it should he known without any with each other, these suggestions had not been handed over to civilians' alone for consideration' and for decision, but they had been submitted to his Ualtant Friend near him (Sir G. Cockburn, we presume), who, after having_takcn time, as he always did, for considertion, had come to the conclusion, not 'that they would absolutely succeed, but that they promised a greater chance of success than any of the plans which they had hitherto acted upon. Again, then, he asked the House whether • the imputations at tempted to be cast by the Noble Lord (Palmerston) upon the Government were not unfounded and unjust ? (Hear, hear.) He (Sir. R. Peel) would not weary the House upon other points attempted to be tortured into charges against them ; but would now say a word or two as to the withdrawal, under the new plan of action on the coast of Africa, of vessels from the coasts of Cuba and Brazil. No doubt, at times there might be requisition made of those ships fOr other points, should events oc cur suddenly to require an extra protection to British interests At the present moment, for instance, there were differences between Buenos Ayres and Monte Video, which might call for even a still'stronger shield to British property and lives. But when requisition should be made of any part of such force, it would only be a temporary withdrawal of any part of it from the coast of Cuba. He (Sir R. Peel) did riot contemplate' any permanent discontinuance of the force on the coast of Brazil and Cuba, nor did he think he should here after, at all events for some time to come, advise that any such step should be taken. If there were any feelings of pride or honour in the Governments of Cuba and Brazil, they would induce them to act as this kind of police on their respective coasts. At the present moment England was absolutely peforming the duty of a police upon these coasts, a duty which feelings of pride and honour ought to lead them to discharge themselves, to relieve others from the necessity of it. The Noble Lord had referred to the good understanding between this country and France. He said he was glad to observe it, but still he spoke of it in terms not much calculated to impose or strengthen it. He (Sir Robert Peel) had• always been of opinion that this good understanding could not be preserved by any compromise that would be dishonourable to this country.—(Hear.) But if it could be continued with a due•regard to national honour, he believed it was - an understanding essential to the interests of civilisation—essential to the peace and welfare of the whole civilised world.—(Cheers.) He believed it was the earnest wish of the great body of the people of this country to maintain that understanding; and lie could say for the present Government, that though, it might be subjected to occasional taunts on the subject, he believed that the predominant feeling both in this House and the country was in favour of the main tenance of that good understanding, subject to the con ditions he had alluded to. ..The House must be aware of the difficulties to which the Governments of France and England were exposed in preserving that steady and temperate course. In this country they were taunted with making concessions to France ; and the. French Government were taunted with making' concessions to England. There seemed to be parties in both countries who were continually throwing every impediment in the way of that course, and prevented the cohtinuance of mutual good feeling. He gave credit to the Government of France for being actuated by a sincere desire to abolish the slave-tilde. But whether France united with them in inculcating on Spain and Brazil the necessity of observing their treaties, or whether it did not, he could assure the Noble Lord that those treaties would not be neglected by the Government. They had brought before the Government of Spain the conduct of the present. Government of Cuba, and they had placed it in dishonourabie contrast with the conduct of the late Governor-General Valdez. The Government would insist on the performance of that treaty by Spain according to its conditions, for some of which it had received an equivalent from England. The Government were determined to adopt such measures as would lead to the abolition of the slave-trade. The Noble Lord had expressed a wish that England would combine with France for the purpose of rescuing the, oppressed _from their fetters, rather than for the purpose of enslaving the free. Enslaving the free ! Why, where did the Noble Lord find any ground for the imputation ? Where did he find the ground for asserting that there was any corn binatiok between France and this country for that pur pose ? Did the Noble Lord think that it was for the interests of France and England —to the countries governed by free institutions—that any people should be subjected to a despotic form of government. He (Sir R. Peel) insisted that Spain was governed by free institutions. He believed that such institutions, com bined with a limited monarchy, would elevate Spain to her place among the nations of the world; but he apprehended that we ought not to enforce such a form of government on Spain. Ought England to have interfered to maintain the Government of Espar tero ? He believed that Espartero was an ho nourable man, desirous of doing his duty towards Spain and determined to do it without assuming an unconsti tutional power. He believed that that. forbearance and honesty, in a state:of society perhaps unsuited to them, had led to his fall. But whatever might be his grateful acknowledgment to Espartero for his public conduct— whatever respect he might have for his personal quali ties, for the forbearance he had shown, and his determi nation to act according to the Constitution of the coun try—yet, if the Noble Lord thought they ought to have actually interfered for the purpose of maintaining his or any other form of government in Spain, he must say he totally differed from the Noble Lord. He believed that no nation would more resent such an interference than the people of Spain. The people of Spain were the best judges of their domestic Constitution. It was the duty of this country to assist him with advice when it was called for, and by friendly relations as long as the inter course existed, but he totally differed from the Noble Lord in supposing that they were actively to interfere in the nternal affairs of that count:sy. He did not recollect any other pint of the Noble Lord's speech to which he would refer, with the exceptioni of that peroration which he believed was the main, object of the speech itself— (Hear, hear.) He believed' that the Noble Lord admired it very much, and Would hardly have made such a trumpery motion as the preselit one - but for the purpose of introducing it. The nVenent he had seen the terms of the-Noble Lord's motion, he had given direc tions to have all the i - iformation prepared. He would even add to it more than the Neble Lord asked. The Noble Lord might take the number of condemnations that had been made at Sierra Leone during the past year. He wished to show Foreign Powers, that not withstanding their party divisions, they were united in considering the manner in which the slave-trade might be put down. He had answered all the charges in the Noble Lord's speech, with regard to the t r eaty o f 1841, to the efforts making on the coast of Africa and Brazil ; and had shown that the Noble Lord had 'not one single ground for the accusation he had made against the Government. But the Noble Lord was justly proud of his peroration, which ought to have b, en spoken in the month of March last; but he had, no doubt, said he would found his oratorical reputation upon it—that it would make a great impression upon the House and the country, and therefore be was not sur prised that the Noble Lord could not forego .the temp tation. That peroration was founded on something that he (Sir Robert Peel) had said two years since, to the effect that those who consented to make private sacri fices to undertake public duties did not do so for the mere pecuniary compensation, but from a hope of establishing x claim to the gratitude of the public. The Noble Lord then said that that desire for faine could not be that which rested on human opinions only, but that which had regard to the higher sense of duty. He (Sir Robert Peel) thought • that all fame that de pended upon temporary popularity, was exceedingly t evanescent. rae fa m e w He , believedgard a s t o h f a p t o t p h ua e l only y way of insuring to uo that which a sense of duty dictated. When he said, therefore, that public men looked to permanent reputati on f or t h e re ward of their public labours, he meant those labours which were conducive to the welfare of their country, and dictated by a sense of duty. But the Noble Lord said that to them most of the avenues of fame were stopped up. To increase commerce and to loosen the shackles of trade, that the Noble Lord said was impos sible to the present Government, on account of the party connected with it. But, at any rate, it had done more than the Noble Lord, and ten times more than he ever con templated till his dying moments, when it became ne cessary to make some desperate efforts to prolong his political existence. Not till then did the Noble Locd become a free-trader. Not till-1841, when the Minis= terial existence was greatly perilled, had they heard anything of those magnificent declarations in favour of commercial liberty which the Noble Lord said the re e sent Government con id not carryout. The Noble Lord said they -could not d o justice to Ireland; and referred Ito the emancipation of the Roman Catholics from their disabilities. The Nob t le L or d nee d h ar dly h ave ad , dressed that to him, so far as the practical measure by which those disabilities were removed was concerned—so far as the encountering of hazard and making sacrifices to forward it, the Noble Lord had no great reason to taunt him with not attempting to do justice. With regard t o th e E s t a bli s h e d Church, he -could not well understand the Noble- Lord. Since last session he had made a speech strongly in favour of main taining the Establi4hed Church in Ireland. The Noble Lord said it was impossible for them to attempt to carry out any general measure of edueation ; but last year they did make more than one attempt to provide a limited system of education. There were obstacles in the way of that measure. An ETON. MEMBER—It was very limited. Sir R. PEEL—If it was limited, the greater pity that it was so opposed. But it was not on account of the Government's party predilections that--the plan failed. But one other avenue to permanent distinction, the Noble Lord said, was yet open to them—that was, an effectual measure for the suppression of the slave-trade. He could assure the Noble Lord that her Majesty's Govern ment, if that were the only avenue open to them to ac , quire a lasting reputation, would not neglect the oppor tunity it afforded to them. They felt deeply impressed, not from any warm or exclusive feeling of interest, that ' the imputation of deriving any advantage from suf fering other nations to continue the system of slavery, having ourselves abolished it, was an absurd one. The position of this country with respect to slavery was a peculiar one.- It had two great objects b. fore it—the effectual suppression of the slave-trade, and the suppres sion of it by means which Were recognised by the gene ral law of nations. They must not, by ill-considered attempts to effect that object, unduly hazard the main tenance of amiable relations with other countries: The interruptions of those relations, if unjustly occasioned, would do nothing for the suppression of the slave-trade: England must keep herself in the right.. With that re servation, the Government would proceed temperately— would act according to the law of nations—would ex tend its protection to the weak as well as the strong. With that reservation, he could assure the Noble Lord that her Majesty's Government was deeply impressed both with the duty and policy, on the highest considera tion of public welfare, of suppressing the slave-trade, and if that avenue to fame remained open to them, the - Government would avail itself of it, as far as honest and persevering means would allow them.—(Cheers.) Sir C. N APIER commenced by alluding to the pro tection given'bfthe treaty, with America to vessels sail ing, under the American flag. By the Ashburton treaty it was agreed that. an American cruiser should sail in Company with an English one. Now America sent only eighty. guns to the African station. That would furnish but a very few cruisers, unless they only gave one or two guns to each, which, he concluded, the American had not done. Now if an English ship, sailing in com pany with an American one, was to overtake the slaver before the American came in sight; he wished to know if the British ship would have a right to board and search that slaver if she should hoist the American flag. Now he thought that was one of the most important, things in carrying out the slave treaties, and he hoped, before the close of the debate, they would have a distinct avowal whether a British cruiser coming up with a vessel bear ing the American flag would board that vessel before the American cruiser came up He did not,think the Right Hon. Baronet was quite right in saying that his Noble Friend was the chief cause of England breaking off with France. Why England did not break off from France, but France from England, so that he was-not entirely to blame. Sir R. PEEL hoped his Gallant Friend would not give any explanation of the instructions sent out. The American Government _bad declined to give their in structions, and he.thought that if the instructions were made known, it would have the effect of counteracting the objects they had in view. But, in order to show the spirit which existed between the British and American officers, he would read a letter from Captain Foot. (The Right Hon. Gentleman then read a letter from Captain Foot, which stated that the basis of a good understand ing between the American and British squadrons was re established, and he trusted it would continue.) He (Sir R Peel) could not give the instructions, but this letter showed the spirit which existed. Sir C. NAPIER said he had not asked for the instruc tions. lie merely wished to know from the Gallant Officer opposite what was to be done in a certain case ? Sir R. PEEL said that when the case had occurred an answer would be given. Mr. PETER BORTHWICK complimented the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government on the firmness and caution which he had displayed with re gard to this subject, but he did not think that the Right lion. Baronet, or the Noble Lord, was justified in saying that Queen Isabella of Spain had a juster claim to legiti macy than Don Carlos. Captain PECHELL thought that the Right Hon. Baronet, had displayed the part of a discreet and cautious Minister in laying an embargo on the Hon. Gentlexnen connected with the Admiralty, which pre vented them from answering the question put by his Hon. and Gallant Friend. He concurred in the policy of increasing the naval forces on the coast of Africa, but he thought that the force on the coast of Cuba and Brazil ought not to be diminished. He trusted that the force on the coast of Africa would now be of such a description as would prevent it from being so harassing to the officers employed there. He also hoped that the ten-gun brigs would done away with, and that vessels of a better,description would be employed. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman referred to the evidence given by Capt. Broadhead, who stated that, if he had such a vessel as the Waterwitch, he would capture five out of six of the vessels with which •he came in sight. He thought that the Noble Lord deserved well of civilised Europe for his endeavours to put down the scandalous traffic in slaves.—(Hear, hear.) Lord PALMERSTON replied. He said that the Right Hon. Baronet had neither done justice to himself nor to him (Lord Palmerston). The Right Hon. Ba ronet had not done justice to him, because he had stated that it was his intention to discuss the slave trade in ge neral—nor to himself, because the Right Hon. Baronet, being so well informed on every subject connected with the government of this country, it was not possible he could be taken at a disadvantages , He could assure the Right lion. Baronet that he would feel greater pleasure in hearing a full answer given to his motion, than if he had obtained a mere party triumph, and for this reason, that he considered this a most interesting and impor tant subject.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet had.givt-n an answer in some respects,. but in others he had failed to do so. First, with regard to the refusal of the French Government to ratify the treaty which they had signed, though he agreed with the Right Hon. Ba ronet in thinking that that refusal would justify the British Government in altering their friendly relations with France, yet still he thought that the British Go vernment ought, as a matter of example, to have put on record a friendly protest. The Right Hon. Baronet had said that he was responsible for the irritation which had subsisted between both countries. He (Lord Palmerston) could not accept that responsibility. He would venture to say that no man had attached more importance to the existence of friendly relations between France and England than he had done, especially when he was in office. They had even alluded to the cordial union which subsisted between both countries in speeches from the Throne, and boasted of it in speeches in that House. The Right Hon. Baronet had said that it was owing to some act of his that these friendly relations had ceased, Now, what was the fact? He would not go into the de tails of the Syrian negotiation, but it was weft known that at the commencement of that negotiation they be lieved England and France had the time objects in view, It was on record that the negotiations began by a dis tinct propsition on the part of the French Government to the other Powers, that they would maintain the in tegrity of the Turkish empire. That was a policy founded on due regard to the interests of England. tied the peace of Europe ; and he believed those who sat opposite to him held, in common with him, that the maintenance of the integrity of the Turkish empire was an object of great importance in both those respects, They thought that by the treaty of Unkiar SkilPsat the integrity of that empire was in great danger, and they embarked in a course of measures tending to what they considered to be the direct interest of England, and in the next place, to maintain the peace of Europe. It was France departed from that policy into which she and England had embarked for a certain time ; and if subsequent events tended to excite irritation in France, that was not a reason why England and the other Powers should have departed from that course of policy which they entered into—not from motives of doing what was disagreeable to France, but from a regard to the interests of England and the peace of Ehrope. But the Right Hon. Baronet had not answered the charge which he brought against the Governmeqt, of delaying for a month after they came into office to ask for a ratification of the treaty. He agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet, that the coast of Africa was a more important station than the coast of Cuba and Brazil, and for this reason, that the slave ships were taken before the negroes were got on board, whereas, when they were captured on their arrival in Cuba or Brazil, all the suffering and misery had been endured. What he contended was, that it would not be wise to withdraw the squadron from both Cuba and Brazil. He was glad to find that he had misunderstood the intentions of the Government, and he quite approved of their course. Now, with regard to the baracoons, the Right Hon. Baronet said,: that, 'in dealing with these uncivilised tribes on the coast of Africa, they must ob serve those international laws which were consecrated by the usuage of Europe, He must say that that had nit always been the doctrine of the Government on that subject.—(Hear, hear.) In the - diseusslon on the affairs of India in the last session, when the matter in debate was the mode in which they had conducted themselves towards the Ameers of Sinde, it was said that the laws of Europe could not be applied with rigour to such a half-civilised people a the people of Sinde.— (Hear, hear.) nut he was glad to find that they were likely to differ much on the question of the luiraceons. He thought it would be very useful for slave-traders in general to be made aware that it was the intention of the Government to avail themselves of their power to root out those nests of pirates which infested the differ ent parts of the African coast,—(Hear, hear.) Now these were the points upon which the Right Hon. Ba ronet slated that ho had unfairly accused the Govern meat of n 4 acting with sufficient energy, He was ex ceedingly glad to hear from hitia a confirmation of the statement as to the good Abets arising from the distin guished administration of General Valdez in Cabe. He quite agreed with him that if the Governments of Cuba and Brazil would only da their duty, the task of suppressing the sl4ypztrade would become light indeed ; and iw trusted that friendly representations to ti cs~ Governments would awaken them tees- cowl of the duty they owed, not merely to I.4 o o 9 tild t taut to themselves and the faith of 01(.1 CT•eitig Into wh,lch they had en -4114 ThOiiiht ion. Bareuerh'ad done him the honour to say, that what he was pleased to call his peroration, was, in his own opinion at least, not to be thrown away. —(Hear, hear.) Such was the general opinion of those who made observations in that House. —(Hear,' hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet said that the present Government had done ten times more to remove restrictions than their predecessors. He did not admit the correctness of the arithmetical calculations on which this statement was founded, but he hoped he would be able to make a larger boat at the close of the next session ---(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon.- Baronet said. the Government had :p a scheme of educa tion which was prevented by resistance' from being carried out; but he did not get rid of the'force of his remark, that it was the prejudices existing in the Government itself which prevented them from proposing to Parliament a scheme founded on a large and com prehensive principle. —(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State for the Home Depart ment, distinctly stated that he would not go one step. in the way of relaxation, beyond the point which those who sat on that side of the House thought was not sufficiently liberal to render the measure acceptable and useful to the country.—(Hear, hear.) Well, now, with regard to Ireland, he had stated that the Government were unable, through the obstacles which they had raised, to give contentment to the six millions of Catholics inhabiting Ireland. The Right Hon. Baronet, in reply, reminded him that it was mainly to himself that the Catho lics owed the great boon conferred upon them bylCatholic Emancipation. No man was more sensible of the, merit of. the Right Hon. Baronet in that respect than himself. Though not belonging to the Government of that period, he had had the honour of giving it his support; and he always contended that the sacrifice of private feeling and personal advantage to public duty, which he then made, did him the greatest honour.—(Hear, hear.) But it was not enough to emancipate a great body of men, to make them by law capable of holding office and taking a share in the government of the country, if they did not practi cally give them access to those situations and that influ ence to which they had by law been rendered eligible.— (Hear, hear.) His complaint against the Go vernment was, that practically they excluded from all share in the Government, six millions of people. —(Hear, hear.) Now, he would not go into all the topics on which the Right Hon. Baronet had dilated, but he would say that he had heard with the greatest delight the remarks with which he had closed his speech. Whether his motion were too long or too short, too early or too late, he was delighted that it had afforded the Go vernment an opportunity of stating its intentions, feel ings, and opinions on the subject of the slave-trade.— (Hear, hear.) He hoped all the nations in the world would see that in England there were not two parties on this subject ; that, however the English people might differ on domestic or foreign questions, on the question of the slave-trade they were united as pne man ; that whatever Government might be in power, there would be no change of policy, there being a' fixed determination on the' part of the British people, that this odious and detestable slave-trade should be brought to an end.—(Cheers.) He felt sure that when that was well known, as the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet would make it, when Government knew that that was the set tled determination of every British Government, and that in pursuing such acourse every British Government would receive the unanimous support of the whole Bri tish people, that resistance, which private influence and local prejudice had opposed to the entire suppression of the slave-trade, would at length give wav, and he could assure the Right Hon. Baronet, that if his Government should have the honour and the glory of putting the crowning hand to this great work, and be able to state to Parliament, that by their measures the slave-trade had been utterly, extinguished, or brought to an impercep tible point, no party feeling, no personal consideration, would abate or diminish the pleasure with which - he should receive the announcement or his disposition to do honour to the Government that had accomplished so great a work.—(Loud cheers.) Sir R. PEEL proposed to add to the return an ac count of the number of slaves emancipated in Sierra Leone, Surinam, and other places, from 1819 to 1844. The motion was then agreed to. HARBOURS OF THE UNITED. KINGDOM. Mr. HUME rose to move for returns on this subject. He said this was a subject of domestic importance which he was very anxious to bring before the House. In a country which depended so much on its ships and com merce, they must have harbours as well as seamen, and on this subject he thought the policy of this country had been extremely lax. Many harbours, formerly ca, pable of receiving vessels of large dimensions, would now scarcely adinit boats. There could be nothing more certain than that it was the duty of this country to mantain her harbours in as perfect a state as possible. What he wanted was, that the country should not lose the harbours which nature had given to it. They knew that in the time of Charles 11. a 64-gun ship might enter the harbour of • Rye, whereas in 1819 it would scarcely admit a boat. There was scarcely a single harbour which pro per Commissioners had been appointed to protect. In one harbour, that of Southwuld, upwards of 3,000 acres, over which the tide had flowed had been enclosed. The Lords of the Admiralty ought not to suffer any har bour to be deprived of a single cubic foot of water by these encroachments, without an equivalent- He wished the Government to take up the question. The Commis sioners appointed to consider the state of the Medway at Rochester, among whom were Sir Byam Martin and Sir Robert Sepping, had reported that every encroachment on our rivers and harbours should be viewed with jea lousy ; and had suggested the revision ; and the conso lidation of the Acts of Parliament relating to this sub ject, and the appointment of officers to inspect and preserve these harbours. Several naval officers and engineers, among »hem be might -mention Captain Samuel Nicholson and Mr. Walker, had expressed their concurrence in these opinions ; and if measures were not speedily adopted to remedy these evils, they would become irreparable. So great had these encroachments —which had been made contrary to law—become, that they must be put down. Lord Ellenborough and Mr Justice Bailey had laid down the law, that the property in the soil of rivers, when there was a flux and reflux of the tide, was in the King, and not in the lord of the manor. It was &grand sight to see the fleets of ships which crowded our coast, but it was absolutely necessary that something should be done to afford protection to these ships in time of war. He had the other day stood on a prominence on the coast of Norfolk, and had counted more than 200 sail of ships. Now what would be the fate of all these vessels, if war should take place ? Let it be recollected that steam navigation had altered the nature of war. We should want harbours every where for these vessels to escape from the steamsboats which would steal out after them. Last year there bad cleared out of the ports of this kingdom g Imo s hip s , being an aggregate of 3,753,000 tons engaged in the foreign trade, and 141,07 ships, being an aggregate of 11,321,000 tons engaged in the home trade, Now, in what condition would these ships be, with which our seas were swarming, in the event of a war ? He would refer to the evidence of the Duke of Wellington, given before the Shipwreck Committee in 1843, as a proof of the importance of this subject. The Noble Duke had stated that the trade of the port of London would be come a losing trade in time of war, if something were not done for its protection against the effect of steam in maritime warfare I and had dilated upon the advantages whieh,the French would possess. They had the sun at their back, and they could see every vessel coming up the channel, could calculate the time at which she would be at a given point, and meet her. The Noble Duke had used the words "maritime warfare," In contradistinction to naval warfare, because it would be impossible toprotect ships by naval means. This proved the necessity of providing harbours in which those ships should take re fuge. The Prince de joinville had alluded to the facility with which Frame, by her steam navy, might injure the commercial navy of Great Britain, and recommended the improvement of steam navigation to his countrymen, because by it they could wound England in two points, in which she was equally vulnerable. They could shake the confidence of the British people in their insular posi tion, and also in their maratime power.. It ought to lie our object to guard against these dangers. In the har bour of Southwold 149,000,000 cubic feet of water, amounting to 30,000,000 of tons, were excluded every tide.. There were 16 inclosurea in the neighbourhood of this harbour, containing 2,724 acres, which had formerly been covered by water. The harbour of Sandwich had been lost in the same manner, and at Montrose there had been an encroachment of 70 acres of land, by which 10,000,000 cubic feet of water had been lost. At the time of the rebellion in 1145, a French frigate had entered the harbour of Montrose, No frigate could enter the harbour now, for they had been making small encroachments all round, which had escaped observation. Our national prosperity depended GA our maritime supremacy. ''He should wish to see all these harbours placed under public superintendence, and an engineer officer appointed to every district, to take cars that no encroachments should he made which would exclude one cubic feet of water from any tidal river. He feared that evil offsets would follow from the enclosures on the banks of the Thames. He had op posed the embankment for the new Houses of Parlia ment. It had been reported that it might be done with safety. He should like to knew the Opinion of those who had so reported. An erroneous idea was prevalent that these embanlcmencs increased the force of the stream by narrowing it; but their object ought to be to increase the body of water entering the harbour.(Hear, hear.) They ought not to allow any municipal officers to [interfere with this subject, and if the Corporation of London were the conservators of the river, the Lords of the Admiralty, on behalf of the Crown, were the conservators of the Lord Mayor and the cor poration—(A. laugh)—and ought to take care that they inflicted no injury on the public. The Hon. Member .concluded by moving for an address to her Majesty, that she will be graciously pleased to appoint a Commission to inquire into the past and present condition of the Several tidal harbours, ports, and creeks of the United Kingdom, with the view of ascertaining the state of the navigation, and the depth of water of these harbours, Ric. ; whether the depth of water was greater formerly than at the present time, and whether any an d what extent of land - over which the tide flowed at any former period has been inclosed ; under what authority the seve ral inclosures were made, the effects of such inclosures al' land, and of the erection of piers, jetties, &0., in decreasing the depth, or in improving or injuring the navigation of the several harbours, creeka, &o. ; to call for and examine all general reports of' civil engineers and public Commissioners, relative to the construction, improvement, or preservation of the several ports, har. bours, creeks, and navigable waters of the United King dom which have been regulated by Act of Parliament since 1800, the operations under anak Acts, and whether the result bas been beneficial or injurious to the naviga tion of the said porta 1...,„,ai50, to inquire into the nature of the• powers entrusted to . the Board of Admiralty, tinder any Acts of Parliament, for protecting the navies's ! tion of the ports and harbours Of the United Kingdom, and in what manner they have eNerzised those powers ; and whether . more eittens,ive and more defined powers may be requi,a;ta to enable them to protect and to ins. Ford O. harbours of this kingdom. I Captain PLUMRIDGE second e d th e mo ti on , an d la doing so, said he would take the opportunity of asking the Right Hon. Baronet if they might expect the report of the' Commissioners on the Ilarbours of Refuge, before the termination of the session. Sir R. PEEL knew that the Commissioners had been diligently engaged in the consideration of the subject ever since their appointment. He believfod that their first report might b. expected about the first week in August, but he should be extremely sorry to hurry them. With respect to the motion of the Hon. Gentleman,.lS acknowledged its importance, and would grant the mo tion, not on occount of the warlike consideratlons to which the lion. Gentleman had referred, but becaise he considered it of the greatest importance to do everything to promote our commercial prosperity ; and it certainly was most important that the internal parts of the king dom should be enabled by means of out rivers, to keep up a communication with the sea. He thought th.it it would have been better if the terms of the motion had • been more general, but he would not object_ to it. In granting the motion, he mu , t be understood as consenting merely to a pre liminary inquiry—all after matter must be for future consideration.. He thought the Hon. Gentleman had rather over-rated the danger. Ile seemed frigh (Laughter)—and showed unnecessary grounds for a arm. The Admiralty were not to blame, for the Bill brow vbt in—a Bill which conferred considerable powers on that . Admiralty—was so mutilated by Parliament that these powers were . greatly abridged, almost annihilated. Be thought inquiry might be Of service; and having made these explanations he would not further obstruct the . object which the Hon. Member had in view. —(Hear.) Sir C. NAPIER thought the Right Hon. Baronet had treated with undeserved contempt the remarks of the Hon.. Member. He certainly thought it a matter the greatest importance that the harbours of refuge,. as well as the other harbours should be kept in a state of efficiency. Although relations between. this' . Co un try and France were at present of an amicable nature, still it was incumbent on them to be in a state of readiness, and not by their neglect and inefficient state of thelr harbours, to give France advantges, in case of war, which might prove disastrous to this country. Dr. BOWRING supported the motion, as did Sir DENHA3I J. NORREYS. ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION. Mr. E. DENISON then moved for an addrets for an account in detail of the sums of money received and pended by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners for Eng land. He thought that these Commissioners had exer cised their powers to an extreme length, and inflit•tid great hardships on private individuals, in violatillh of the expressed opinion of Parliament. When the returns for which he raoved were on the table of the House, he would bring the whole subject under the consid,ration of Parliament. Mr. ELPHINSTONE did not think the returns pro posed by his Hon. Friend were sufficient. He should therefore move for a return of the incomes of all Arch bishops and Bishops of England and Wales since 1837. Sir J. GRAHAM consented to the motion on behalf of the Government. When the Hon. Gentleman brought forward the subject, he should be able to show that the principle adopted by the Church Commissioners, with respect to Church property, was founded on evity and justice. AS to the amendment of the Hon. Meatier who had spoken last, (Mr. Elphiustone), he felt bound tore sist it. After a few observations from Mr. Hume, Mr. V. Smith, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and Mr. G. Knight, Sir R. PEEL said he hoped the Commissioners would exercise the powers which the Legislature had given to them unfettered in their discretion, and that nothing which occurred in debate in that House would induce them to take any other course than that which a sense of duty dictated. The Orders in Council were in them selves great, but in his opinion the Co missioners had exercised their power under them with great diseret'.cti and judgment. The chief object of their labours would. ba to increase the value of ecclesiastical property, and apply that increase to the supply of the spiritual wants of the nation. Again, he would express his hope that they would not be influenced in their conduct by any mere debate in that House. Mr. MUM: said, as the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Dennison) had expressed his determination to bril.g this subject distinctly before the House on a fut-re occasion, he should be prepared to talc- part iii thy dis cussion; and protect the interests of the irhabitsnts. Dr. tOWII,ING said, this was a motion merely asking for' some statistical details, and he had not heard a shadow of a reason for refusing them. Surely when that House asked for certain facts of a case it was not right in the Government to refuse them. Mr. BROTHERTON said, Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side of the House, when sitting on the s ea t s occupied by himself and friends, used to charge upon them that they were great spoliators of the Church ; but he believed those persons who thus impugned the conduct of others were, after all, but pretended friends of the Church—(Rear, hear)-- and he (Mr. Brotherton) believed that Lord John Rus sell's Bill for the better regulation of Church property would have been carried if there had not been found so many leaseholders of Cki•rch property in otiposition tcs it.—(Cheers and laughter.) The landed interest had got hold of Church property .on easy terms, and they liked it very much.—(Laughter.) He (Mr. Brotherton' therefore, hoped with the Right Hon. Baronet alt the head of the Government, that the Commissioners would make the most they could of the ecclesiastical property committed_ to their charge, and be guarded by their own sense of what wag right rather than to the suggestions of other people, Mr.- WAWN said, that coming from Durham, he onuld speak of that place as well as most people, and he begged to give his opinion that the greatest spoliators of Church. property were the clergy themselves. The gallery was then cleared for a division, and the numbers were-- For tho amendment Against it Majority against the amendments.., --18 The original motion was then granted, LUNATICS AT HAMAR. Captain PECHELL brougliit under the cot,siclerati of the House the case of the lunatic naval aticers in the hospital at Haslar. He stated the circumstances under which they were removed from the asylum at Hoxton to Haslar, and the regulations made by the Admiralty for deducting from the half-pay, received by their wives, one half of the usual amount oot account of additional expense. By an order from the Admiralty, dated 11th Jan. 1532, it was agreed to restore this pay, with the arrears, but the order was afterwards cancelled. When the Right Hon. Gentleman recollected the suffering which hall been caused by withholding those small sums, he thought he would alter his opinion and allow an inquiry into those cases. He now came to the particularcase of Mrs. Forbes, whose claim the Government refused, because, they said his insanity was not caused while in the service he was employed in. But it could be moved beyond all doubt, he believed, that the seeds of the disease under which he suffered were in consequence of the erriployineA he was engaged in, on board the Vengeur, in New Or leans. It was said that Lieutenant Forbes had left the service and entered into the merchant service ; but he retained his half pay, and had the sanction of the Ad miralty for taking that step. If the Gallant Admiral made the proper inquiries he would find that what he (Captain Pechell) had stated was correct. He did not believe that either the Hon. Mereber for Montrose, or the lion. Member for Coventry, would have any objection to granting those small sums to those per sons in Haslar Hospital, and that those were not items to which they had any objection. The motion he had to make was for a Select Committee, to...which the petitions of Mrs, Charlotte Forbes, Mrs. Sarah Rickett s , an d M rs . Burgess were to be refer red, Mr. HUME had supported the claims of Mrs. Forbes eighteen years ego, and he looked upon the claim as one obef justice, and trusted the ti me was come w h en i t wou ld granted. • Sir G. COCKBURN said that the rule had formerly been, that officers who became insane while on service were taken into the asylum at Hasler, and that half their half-pay was devoted to their maintenance, the other half being paid to the relations. In 1822 this in dulgence was extended to officers on half-pay. In 183), instead of deducting half the half-pay, a deduction was made of Is. 6d. a day, but that was merely a prospec tive regulation, and there was no claim on the Government for the repayment of that money which had been before paid voluntarily. Now, with regard to the case of Mrs. Forbes, he agreed in all that had been said hi the praise of that most meritorious lady ; but he denied that Lieutenant Forbes's insanity had been occasioned by his sufferings in the service. He had been a midshipman on board the Vengeur: before New Orleans. It did not appear from the surgeon's books that he had suffered any illness there, He had been promoted at the peace, and in 1822 he had taken the command of a merchantman. She hail been seized by Bolivar, either at Lima or Guyaquil, and Lieut. Forbes had left her. He returned across the Isthmus of Darian, and, in consequence, probably, of the unhealthiness of the climate of Panama, he had lost his sight. He retired to London,, blind but not insane, and two years afterwards his friends applied to the Admiralty to have him admitted into the lunatic asylum at Haslar, of course, in accordance with the regulations there in existence. He gave the Hon. and Gallant Officer great credit for his wigh to a:sist Mrs. Forbes, who was a most deserving lady, but he could not hold out any hope that the Admiralty would grant her claims. Mr. P. BORTHWICK supported the motion. Mr. PLUMPTRE bore testimony to the high pa ex cellent character of Mrs. Forbes. Mr. S. HERBERT could also bear testimony bo the excellent conduct of Mrs. Forbes, and regretted that neither the Board of Admiralty nor the Government could promise to take her case into consideration be cause that would be tantamount to saying that the claims would be granted. The subject had been carefully cony sidered, and the Admiralty had decided that they could not,consistently with their duty, grant the claims of Mrs. Forbes. Mr. WILLIAMS said this case was one of extremes hardship ; and if anything would justify the departures from an established rule, it was such cuicumistances as had just been brought under the notice of the House. He would go as far to maintain economy as any one, but he thought the strongest sticklers for prudence in. the outlay of public money would be disposed to look with most favourable feelings upon the present case. Mr. HAVES said, in such a case as this, the techni cal rules of the service ought to be allowed to give wey to considerations of humanity. Sir C. NAI'IER said it appeared to him to 'be the most unjust thing in the world to reihse - this claim. Ss, however, the Gallant Admiral (Sir G. Cockburn) seemed disposed to do something in this matter--,and he did not doubt his sincerity--(Hear, hear)—he hoped het otim- Gallant Eriond (ijaptain Pechell) would not Ness the cluotiatt to a division, as perhaps, such a course /night weaken the kind feeling which now he believed to-pre vail at the Admiralty in reference to it.—(Hear.) the ice m' se 1