The Sun. — London, England, 1844-04-24 00:00:00

Vbirb Vitittion SUN OFFICE, Seven o'Clock. SPIRIT of the PUBLIC JOURNALS. FROX THE EVENING PAPERS OF THIS DAT. GLOBE.—We may now, we think, consider our selves as pretty completely justified in the intention we expressed of calling certain assertions by no other name than Ferrands,—although there is a name shorter by one syllable for assertions of the sort we allude to. On any point, therefore, referring to the Poor-law or Factory question, whenever an assertion may be put forth in any quarter, which neither proof nor probability—neither document nor fact of any kind can be brought to vouch—whenever an assertion is put forth which no man of honour would have made, without anything to adduce as its ground, or any idea that the only alternative for a man of honour is to support or retract his words —to state on what supposed ground he uttered them, or apologise for them, as words which should not have been uttered—whenever such assertion shall come before us in future, thus gross, thus unsupported —we shall be saved a world of trouble in describing its character, by simply treating it as a " Ferra nd . Ferrand and his friends are, indeed, right worthy of each other; and we rejoice to have found so succinct an expression for the style of assertion characteristic of them as of him. The Times, Post, and Herald are quite at a loss to imagine how it should be expected that their valuable friend should justify in one place what he said in another. Sufficient for the day is the statement thereof; what Mr. Ferrand said to operatives at one time, he could not expect gentlemen to call him to account for at another. There is something to be said in favour of this view of the matter ; and it has at least the advantage of setting, for all future time, all assertions of. Mr. Fer rand (endorsed, as the case may be, by Times, Post, or Herald) at their just value. Those who like to take such inconvertible currency may. He and they may fly any more such kites as they think proper; their reciprocal attestations will henceforth only make the most predestined dupes. The citation of Mr. Ferrand's authority will render quite harmless anything else that follows ; and the broadsides of the Times and his othr confede . rates will flash a mere brutum fulmezt, whenever they seek to blaze away in future with Ferrands in lieu of facts. Thank heaven, one " tall bully" at least may henceforth " lift his head and lie," as un challenged as the old original monument—and for the same reason. We have always thought it a pity the old flagrant inscription brazens it out no longer ; and we should think it a still greater pity that Mr. Fer rand should henceforth be treated by any one as an accountable being. There are varieties of vermin which feed on each other ; there are newspaper agita tions which require such pabulum as the speeches, and which nourish, in turn, the notoriety of a Ferrand. STANDARD.—The unpleasant and unprofitable scene of Monday night was last night renewed in the House of Commons. Mr. Ferrand, who, it will be remembered, made a promise to examine the reports of the speeches ascribed to him and then to disclaim or avow his charges against Sir James Graham and Mr. Hogg, declared that he had read the reports and found them faithful, and having reiterated his convic tion of the truth of his charges, walked out of the House. The scene that followed illustrates in a re markable manner the extreme impropriety and incon venience of the meddling of Messrs. Roebuck, Hume, and Ward. Mr. Ferrand had made two grave charges, of the utter injustice of which we are as fully con vinced, as we are of Mr. Ferrand's bozzajide sincerity in advancing them ; but they were charges from their very nature incapable of specific proof, for who can establish in evidence the motive of a judge, or trace from the lips of witnesses the influence of a Mi nister ? For this reason a cool and discreet man, which Mr. Ferrand is not, will carefully ab stain from making such charges ; for the same rea son a zealous and bold man, which Mr. Ferrand is, will be prompt to make them and will be freely forgiven for making them ; and for all these reasons, such charges rarely do harm to any one, never to men of such established high character as the Home Secretary and the Member for Beverley. This seems to have been the view of the matter taken by Sir James Graham and Mr. Hogg, who left the charges of Mr. Ferrand's speech unanswered and unnoticed, until the officious zeal of Messrs. Roebuck, Hume, and Ward suggested the policy of putting them into form as a distinct impeachment, and bringing that impeachment by a certiorari pro cess of their own into the House of Commons. This, we say, Messrs. Roebuck, Hume, and Ward had no right to do, and this we say, with all respect, the Speaker ought not to have permitted them to do. The House of Commons has work enough to do, and duties of sufficiently high importance to discharge, without looking after the conduct of its Members out of doors, except where the laws of the country have pronounced upon that conduct, or, as in the case of Mr. O'Connell's slander, where some direct attack is made upon the House itself in its collective character. If Members are to be followed abroad by the censorial appa ritors of Parliament, in order to compel them to give an account of their reports of other Mem bers of whom they may speak, Parliament will soon have enough to do. There were but few, if any, of the monster meetings last summer at which Mr. Daniel O'Connell did not deal out tolerably coarse and minute charges against Members of both Houses of Parliament, but we do not remember that Mr. Roebuck, Mr. Hume, or Mr. Ward, ever thought it necessary to require the Member for Cork to repeat those charges in the House of Commons, and substantiate them by proofs. True, Mr. O'Connell is a chartered slanderer, and Mr. Ferrand is a man of honour ; but surely the mistakes of a man of honour are entitled to as much indulgence as the deliberate slanders of one of an opposite character ; and one constantly indulged case opposing it, is decisive against any rule. We repeat it, then, that Messrs. Roebuck, Hume, and Ward had no right to bring Mr. Ferrand's Leeds speech under the notice of _Parliament, and that the Speaker ought not to have permitted the introduction of the subject. When, however, the subject was intro duced, neither Mr. Ferrand, Sir J. Graham, nor Mr. Hogg had any choice as to how each ought to act. 'Mr. Ferrand ought to avow or to disavow the speech . at Leeds ascribed to him in the news papers. Sir James. Graham and Mr. Hogg ought to show themselves ready to vindicate their cha racters ; and this is pretty much what has been done. Mr. Ferrand avows the speech, and being forced to answer, professes that he adheres to the opinions conveyed in it. It is, however, going too far to treat this avowal of the speech and of its opinions as a pledge to substantiate anything by ' evidence. Neither at Leeds, we believe, nor cer tainly in the House of Commons, did Mr. Ferrand give, any such pledge. The charges, as we h ave intimated, are hardly of the same kind that admit of specific proof, and were they dif ferent, the House of Commons has too often ex pressly, by implication, and by an unhappy prac tice, condemned itself as a judicial tribunal for any man to look for a just judgment from it, more especially in a matter in which strong party feeling must have place. It is unjust, therefore, to treat Mr. Ferrand es one who flies from an accusation that be has pledged him self to support. As to Sir James Graham and Mr. Hogg, they have acted as might have been ex pected from their high spirit, integrity, and good sense, and from the tranquillity they main tained until Messrs. Roebuck, Hume, and Ward " blew the coal." Sir James Graham lets the matter rest, and Mr. Hogg seems to have been disposed to imitate the Right Hon. Baronet, except for an insinu tion in the Times of yesterday ; this insinuation our contemporary has very handsomely withdrawn this this morning, and therefore we trust that the business will go no further, and that Messrs. Roebuck, Hunie, and Ward will be disappointed. STATE OF TRADE. (From the Manchester Guardian of this day,) There was no material change in our market yester day. Perhaps, upon the whole, yarn was a little steadier . in price than last week, and rather more business was done, principally on Russian account. In goods, with the exception of shirtings, and other fabrics suitable for the East Indies, which continue in good demand, there was not much business doing, and, though prices are generally firm, in some few cases trifling reductions were submitted to by manfacturers. ROCHDALE FLANNEL MARKET, MONDAY, APRIL 22. —There has been a rather quiet market to-day, some what similar to those of the two last wee ks. It has been, what is called " Little Monday," and in general fewer buyers a ttend. The business transacted has been upon a limited scale, and prices have undergone little or no change. The wool market still continues dull, and prices stationary. IMPERIAL PARLIAMEN T. (THIS EVENING.) • • HOUSE OF COMMONSo .. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hur. NEW MEMBER. The Marquis of BLANDFORD took the oaths and his seat for Woodstock. Mr. DENNISTOUN presented petitions against the . Prisons Bill, from the Magistrates and Councils of Olastbw, Rutherglen, and Renfrew, from the Glasgow - Itinemeipatinn Society, against the admission of sugar produced by slave lab our , an d f ro m the Merchants and Bankers of - Glasgow, for the Repeal of the Duties on Cotton Wool. -MASTERS AND SERVANTS BILL. GIBSON presented a petition from Nottingham stainst tfio Master and Servants Bill. Mr. AGLIONBY presented a petition from Cocker - mouth. • bir. -DrizETT presented a petition from Exeter to' the PM ere" COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE BILLS. Mr. GREENE as Chairman of the Committee of Se lection begged leave to state to the House, that some in convenience had been occasioned to the persons inter ested in the Hull Docks Bill, in consequence of the agents not having received notice of the adjournment of the House and the Committee till Friday. That Com mittee had been appointed for Thursday, and as it could not sit on that day, ho now moved that it should have leave to sit on Friday.—Ordered. An Hon. Member presented a petition from a place in Tyrone in favour of Presbyterian marriages. The Briti,h Iron Company Bill was read a third time and passed. SUGAR DUTIES. Mr. DIVETT presented a petition from Exeter, pray lig for the admission of sugar the produce of free labour. Lord HOWICK presented a similar petition from Sutherland. Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition to the same effect from Kendal. COAL DUTIES,—COTTON DUTY. Lerd HOWICK presented a petition from the Town Council of Sutherland, praying for the repeal of the export duty on coal. Lord SANDON presented a petition from the manu facturers of Heywood, in Lancashire, praying for the repeal of the duty upon the importation of raw cotton. THE CHARITABLE PAWN SOCIETY. Lord SANDON presented a petition from the pawn brokers of Liverpool against the Charitable Pawn So cieties Act. Mr. HAWES presented a similar petition, but the names of the petitioners were not heard in the gallery. Mr. TATTON EGERTON presented a petition against any alteration in the Bishoprics of Bangor and St. Asaph: Mr. DICKENSON presented a petition from a regis tra4in Somersetshire, praying that Taunton might be placed in schedule C in the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill. NEW ZEALAND. Mr. AGLIONBY said, that on Friday evening last, when the estimates were before the Committee, a consi derable part of the discussion arose on the subject of New Zealand, the state of the Colony, and the manage ment of the Company's affairs. He then implored the Government to grant an inquiry, and the Noble Lord at the head of the Colonial Department acknowledged that the matter was a very important one and as ha be lieved that the Noble Lord would not object to the ap pointment of a Select Committee, he now begged to move that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of the Colony of New Zealand, and the proceedings of the Company, the said Committee to re • port its proceedings to the House. Mr. LABOUCHERE thought that the consent of the Colonial Secretary was not alone necessary. The House ought also to decide whether the subject was of impor tance enough for a Select Committee, and was entitled to have some notice of the motion. Mr. AGLIONBY said the blame of not having given notice was entirely his own ; he would comply with the suggestion of the Hon. Member, and give notice of his motion for Friday next. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Sir R. PEEL moved that the House at its rising do adjourn till Friday next.—Agreed to. NOTICES OF MOTION. LORD LIEUTENANTCY OF IRELAND. Mr. HUME gave notice that he would, on this day fortnight, bring forward the motion of which be had given notice respecting the abolition of the Lord Lieu tenantcy of Ireland. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL. Mr. BORTHWICK gave notice that, on the motion ior going into Committee on the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill, he would move that the House resolve itself into the same Committee on that day six months.—(Laughter.) FACADE OF THE BRITISH MUSEUM. Mr. M. MILNES gave notice that on Friday next, he would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury, as a trustee of the British Museum, whether the new façade had been definitively agreed on ; for if not he would move for a Select Committee to reconsider the plan. INFLUENCE OF PEERS IN ELECTION OF MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE gave notice that on Thursday fortnight he would move for a Select Committee to in quire what persons had been, either directly or indi rectly, nominated through the influence of Peers or other persons, to sit for boroughs as Members of the House of Commons. _ _ SLAVE TRADE. Mr. M. MILNES gave notice that he would on Mon day move for a return of the number of British cruiser which had been employed from 1831 in the suppression of the slave trade ; also for a similar return with regard to French cruisers. COLONIAL ESTIMATES. Mr. HUME said that two nights ago, in the dis cussion on the colonial estimates, it had been agreed that certain returns should be made relating to colonial in come and expenditure. Those returns would be very voluminous. He, however, had prepared a digest of returns, which would be much less voluminous, but which would answer all the purpose, and he therefore begged leave to move for them.—Agreed to. SINKING FUND. Mr. lIUME would move, if the motion were not ob jected to, for returns of the amount of the Sinking Fund, of the sums which had been voted from that fund, of the various purposes to which those amounts had been ap propriated, and of the sum to which the Sinking Fund would have amounted if those appropriations had not taken place. Sir GEORGE CLERK thought the Hon. Gentleman had better give notice. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS BILL. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to know when the Ec clesiastical Courts BM would be brought on. It stood in the Orders for Monday next. Dr. NICHOLL intended to move on Monday that the Bill be committed pro forn.a in order to enable the House to get through the money clauses awarding com pensation. Mr. BORTHWICK had already given a notice on the subject. If he allowed the House to go into Committee pro forma, he should lose his right, and he therefore gave notice that when the Hon. and Learned Gentleman should move the commitment of the Bill, he should pro pose his amendment. PRIVILEGE.—MR. FERRAND'S ACCUSATIONS. Sir JAMES GRAHAM rose and said —Sir, I rise to address the House on a case of privilege. At the same time, I may truly state, I think, both on the part of my lion. Friend the Member for Beverly and myself, that I am extremely unwilling to occupy any portion of the time of the House in hearing a statement on a purely personal matter. If I could have regarded it merely as a; personal matter I should have hesitated long before I brought it before the attention of the House; but, as I said yesterday, I feel strongly, that whatever concerns any Hon. Member of this House, is indissoluably connected with this House itself, and, after what occurred on Monday and yesterday, lam satisfied that the deliberate opinion and dispassionate judgment of the House is, that the matter then considered cannot be allowed to rest where it now is. The course with respect to the case of the Hon. Member fur BeNerley that has been pointed out for adoption is, that certain passages of his speech, purport ing to be delivered by the Hon. Member for Knaresbo rough, and published in the Times newspaper of Wed nesday, the 10th of April last, should be read. These passages contained, first, the charge against myself, and, secondly, the charge which applies both to the Hon. Member for Beverley and myself. Ido not think it right to add more now, and I deem that I shall best discharge my duty—and I believe my Hon. Friend concurs with me in that opinion—by laying the two passages on the table for the purpose of having them read by the Clerk. The Clerk at the table then read the following pas sage :—" The meeting should remember that no man had resisted the poor-law more vigorously than Mr. Walter, and it therefore was felt necessary by Sir James Graham to get him unseated. Against that gentleman's (Mr. Walter's) return a petition had been presented, and in that petition an allega tion was made that betiveen thirty and forty pounds had been improperly expended. His speech went on to say that the Committee to try this petition consisted of three Whigs and of three Tories, and its Chairman was Mr. Hogg, the Member for Beverley, one of the most pure boroughs in the kingdom, but whether he (Mr. Hogg) got his seat for forty pounds or not, he (Mr. 'errand) did not exactly know.—(Hear, hear.) This Tory Chairman, aided by Sir J. Graham, unseated Mr. Walter. Mr. Hogg tried to explain away his con duct on that occasion, and all the Government side of the House, on which I sat, listened with feelings of dis gust while he 'higgled and haggled' in that explanation. —(Hear.) There was but one man on that side of the House who vociferously cheered, and that one man was Sir James Graham." When the Clerk had done reading, The SPEAKER said—ls the Hon. Member for Linares borough in his place ? No answer being returned. Sir H. PEEL said—Sir, I believe I am acting in con formity with general usage in undertaking, on account of the position in which I have the honour to be placed in this House, as the head of her Majesty's Government, respectfully to tender to the House my opinion as to the course which it will be desirable to take.—(Hear, hear.) I advised the House, in the course of yesterday evening, when this subject was ander consideration, to permit an interval to elapse before they came to any decisien, in order that there might. be the opportunity during that interval for each Member taking an interest in this case, to refer to the precedents which have been established in cases at all of an analogous nature. The position in which we are now placed is this—that the Members of this House,considering that their character is affected by charges which appear to have been preferred against them in a speech deli vered at a public meeting, reported in one of the newspa pers of this country, and attributed to a Member of this House, have thought fit, in the exercise of their right, as tMembers of Parlia men t, t o p l ace on t h e t a ble of the House w t h h which they coarseth ey which complain, ay in ap r order ear t o that be theth the House passagei n ay take f best. That is the position in which we are placed. I have referred, Sir, during the interval which has elapsed since this subject was last under our considera tion, to the cases in recent times, which appear to bear upon this. I think the three principal cases are the case of the complaint preferred % Lord Maid stone against Mr. O'Connell, the application made to the House by Mr. Sheil, the Right Hon. Gentleman, who is now a Member of this House, for the vindication of his character • against certain charges, which were brought against him in a speech delivered by a Member of this House, Mr. Hill, at a public meeting; and the third case is a complaint made by the Hon. Member for Warrington, Mr. Blackburn, against a gentleman who had been unsea ted by the report of a Select • Com mittee—Mr. Poulter t Those are the eases in recent times, which Appear to have An immediate bear ingg. upon our proceedings in the preat o nt instance. r, I will not point out the nice distinctions which may exist between these several cases and the present. The con clusion which I have drawn from the course pur sued on the whole of these occasions is this, that it would be right upon the present occasion to re solve that this House will take the complaint which has now been made by two of its Members, into consi deration on Friday next.—(Hear, hear.) My respect ful advice to the House is, that we shall proceed in this case with strict adherence to all established formalities —that we shall give no party any right to complain that we are taking advanvantage of admissions casually made by him, or that we ' are acting precipitately, or have refused to allow him an opportunity of explaining anything which he may have said. I think that, in the course of yesterday, the Hon. Mem ber for Knaresborough did distinctly admit that the paragraph complained of contained a correct report of his speech. He also stated that he was prepared to abide by the charge which that paragraph alleges to have been made. Still, although he made that admission, he did not conclude the speech he was then delivering ; and it is possible that had that speech been brought to a con clusion, some mitigating statements would have been made by him, which he had not an opportunity of making.. I think that strict justice would in cline me to advise that we should not take advantage of admissions made under such circumstances. —(Cheers.) I should advise that we resolve to take the matter of this complaint into consideration on Friday next ; and I would combine that resolution with another, namely, that the Hun. Member for Knaresborough should attend in his place on Friday next, fer the pur pose of bearing that paragraph read to him by the Speaker, in order that he may state whether or not he admits this report to be a correct report of what he said ; and I think also that we ought to give him an opportunity of establishing the charges which he has made.—(Cheers.) If lie admits the report, and if ho states that he is in a condition to prove it, and that he is willing to prove the charges which he has preferred, my advice to the House is to give him an unreserved opportunity of doing so. I would notassume the falsity of the report, but I would advise the House to be willing to accept the proof and to appoint a Select Committee for the purpose of enabling the Hon. Member to substantiate his charges. I will discuss no other contingencies, and I trust that I have spoken as becomes my position in giving my advice to the House. I want to act most dispassionately, and my advice is, to act with all due regard to established forms; and I there fore content myself by moving, that the House will take this complaint into consideration on Friday next, and it the House should affirm that resolution, I will move that the Member to whom this speech was attributed do attend in his place on that day. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—I rise merely to say, that I entirely concur in the course now proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman. I think I cannot do better than refrain from saying a single word more respecting it, as I think a better course could not be pursued under the circumstances.—(Cheers.): Mr. FRENCH—The impression on my mind is, that the words which have been just read to the House do not bear out the charges which have been made by the non. Member for Knaresborough. I cannot see that the passage in the Times bears out the charge that the Right lion. Baronet opposite tampered with the Hon. Member for Beverley, and as to the charge against the Right Hon. Gentleman, I can only say that the Right Hon. Gentleman did read the document which had been got up by Mr. Mott, and which document, if the public papers speak the truth, was acknowledged to be false and Mr. Mott has since been dismissed from his office.— (Hear.) I think that as far as the Hon. Member for Beverly is concerned, he must have perceived from the cheering of the House that his character stands altogether unimpeached.—(Hear, hear.) As to the Hon. Mmber for Knaresborough, I must admit that he has the mis fortune of not being able to controul his tongue.—(Loud cheers, and laughter.) But I think it is a dangerous precedent that a Minister of the Crown, backed by a majority of the House, should be able to put down any man who ventured to bring a charge against him. On that ground I must object to the motion.—(Hear.) Sir R. PEEL said—Sir, the Hon. Gentleman has altogether mistaken the course which I meant to pursue. I have proposed a resolution to the effect, that the House shall consider the charge, and shall give the Hon. Mem ber a full opportunity of proving its truth.—(Hear.) Mr. DUNCOMBE was not quite sure that they were going according to precedent. He thought that it was the proprietor or printer of the newspaper who should be called to the bar in this case. The Noble Lord opposite (Lord Stanley) had gone rather too far when he said that the Hon. Member must have known when he made the charge.—(Hear.) The course pro posed by the Right lion. Secretary for the Home Department would have been the best, to have the words of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough taken down—(Hear, hear)—without going through the intermediate process of reading a newspaper.—(Hear, hear.) He did not mean to justify in the slightest degree the speech of the Hon. Member, nor did he think there was the slightest ground for the accusation. But he must also recollect that the two gentlemen impugned had allowed ten days to pass over without making the charges, instead of calling the accuser to account on the first day of the session, which was what he (Mr. Duncombe) had expected when he read the speech.--(Hear, hear.) No doubt the charge was calumnious, and, as it was made in the pre sence of thousands, no time should have been lost in calling for explanation in the House on the first op portunity.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Be verley had said that he had been advised by his friends to treat the charge with silent contempt.—(Hear.) In his opinion the advice so given was sound and good. But then another Hon. Member, totally unconnected with the matter—whose name had never been brought forward in relation to it—got up and said to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough (Mr. Ferrand), " Pray, Sir, did you say so and so?"—(Laughter.) Now, in answer to that question, had he (Mr. Duncombe) been the per son interrogated he should have said, " Pray, Sir, what business is that of yours?"—(Loud laughter and cheers.) He should, however, if interrogated by certain of the Hon. Gentlemen, certainly have given them the satis faction they had a right to ask, either in that House or out of it. But they not choosing to ask it, he really had not been able to see what right any other Honourable Member had to ask it for them.—(Loud cheers.) But the ques tion having been put, they had now to deal with a state ment which had been avowed, and they were doing so in a very round-about way. In his opinion, the most proper course now to pursue was to re fer the matter to a Committee of three or five Mem bers—aye, and he would not object to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough himself nominating that Committee. If, before that Committee, he refused to substantiate his accusations, or if, in that Com mittee, he failed in substantiating his charges, then it would be for the House to exercise its undoubted au thority should not that Hon. Gentleman—as he hoped he would do, and as he (Mr. Duncombe) would not hesitate to do—at once withdraw the charges he might be un able to substantiate, and express his regret for making assertions for which there was no foundation.—(Cheers.) Mr. D'ISRAELI said he had been a member of the Nottingham Committee, and could bear witness to the utter groundlessness of the charges brought against the Hon. Member for Beverley.—(Hear, hear.) No man's conduct could have been more satisfactory. True he (Mr. D'lsraeli) differed in opinion with the Honourable Gentleman, but ho never for one moment questioned the conscientiousuess of his deci sions. With regard to Mr. Ferrand, he entirely dis approved the course he had lately been pursuing in the country. He disagreed as to the spirit he evinced and the tone he used towards the master manufacturers. He acknowledged them to be an order of men, second in importance to none ; but in treating this subject as the House seemed now inclined to treat it, he thought they were taking a very injudicious course, and one of which they would repent. There were two courses open to the Hon. Member for Beverley. Having felt that the charge ought to be noticed, he might have asked some friend, some man of sense, temper, and firmness, to have applied to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He knew that some gentlemen thought that an appeal of this kind immediately led to Wimbledon Common and pistols ; but he believed that in 990 cases out of a thousand this was not the case. If the affair had been intrusted to an individual of this character, it was impossible but the result must have been satisfactory to the Hon. Member Member for Beverly, and not degrading to the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. But there was another course open to the Honourable Member for Be verly. He might have thrown himself upon the House, and might have asked it to give him its protection in his official character.—(" So he did.") But the Hon. Gentleman did neither ; he neither made a public nor private complaint on the subject. The mat ter was brought forward by the Hon. Gentleman who as sumed the office in that House of pnblic prosecutor. — (Cheers from Ministerial benches). He brought it forward without the least notice, without affording the object of it, that golden bridge which the social spirit and social usages usually furnished to every one in similar cir cumstances—he brought it forward without giving the slightest opportunity for accommodation.—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Roebuck.) The Hon. Member for Bath seemed to exult in the effect he had produced ; he totally disapproved of the conduct of the Member for Knares borough; he knew the imputation he made to be false and frivolous, but nothing would exceed the indecorous conduct of the House if it assumed the judicial character, in what was anything but a judicial spirit. The charge was suddenly made by the Hon. Member for Bath, attended with sarcasms—not very successful ones, indeed, but such as showed the disposi tion to be present, though the hand of the master might not be very apparent. The Honourable Member for Beverley had not thought proper, either in his private or public capacity, to appeal to the Honour able Member for Knaresborough. The affair was precipitated on the notice of the House, and the very body that was to decide the question had shown a dis position not in accordance to what ho believed to be the judicial spirit. The Right Hon. Baronet bad, to night, endeavoured to retore some degree of order to their proceedings, and to invert the course they were taking with some degree of dignity and decorum. But the question was, after wasting two nights on this subject, whether, after the extract had been read at the table, they should not go a step further, and let the matter fall altogether to the ground. They were now entering on the question of what limits ought to be drawn in public discussion. In case of any charge made in that blouse, was the House to convert itself into a court of honour to decide upon it ? There was sufficient power to keep a speaker in order in that individual responsibility which attached to every man. He had heard graver charges than any which were made by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He had heard last cession the leadek of the House of Commons charge an Hon. Gentleman opposite with making speeches which would lead to assassination. —(Hear, hear.) How:_ was the -Right Honourable, Gentleman treated ? Wa3 he howled at •and hooted THE :SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, APRIL 24, 1844. down P No, Hon. Gentleman opposite sunk before the accusation in a manner which told little for their spirit.—(Laughter, and " Hear, hear.") But, in this instance, because the individual was obnoxious to them he was treated in a different manner. He did not agree with the Hon. Member for Knaresborcugh. He entirely disapproved of the course he had taken. He objected to the spirit which animated his remarks. But because that lion. Member was obnoxious, and because he was not backed the moment he made this he was baited. — ( Hear, hear, hear.) Gentleman after Gentleman got up and asked him, " Why did you say this ?" If the Hon. Member had the common courtesy of society exercised towards him, he would have had an opportunity of extricating himself from the painful position in which he was placed.—(Hear, hear.) It had been said that the Hon. Gentleman had flown from the tribunal. lie (Mr. Disraeli) was not at all surprised that he did not try that tribunal to deciee the question. He had no communication with him on the subject, except for ono moment when he was passing out of the House, on which occasion he told him that he had a bad case and a worse tribunal.—(Laughter.) That was his (Mr. Disraeli's) opinion. He belleved the Honourable Member for Knaresborough had not de ferred to the tribunal, but had demurred to it He considered it was unnecessary for him to enter into any explanations with the House, but that individuals who thought themselves offended would take their own course. He did not consider that this quarrel would be made the quarrel of the House of Commons, or that the House would convert itself into a Court of Honour.—(Hear, hear.) The practical question for them to consider was—whether the House ought to establish so dangerous a precedent. The ques fi in between the Hon. Member and the Right Hon. Gen tleman was very different from that between him and the Hon. Member for Beverley.—(Hear.) He had heard the Hon Member for Knaresborough, on several occasions, enter into the Mott question and the Keightly Union and he had heard the Right Hon Gentleman the Secre. tary of State for the Home Department, and the Right Honourable Gentleman at the head of the Government answer him, and enter upon all the details. He never could depict to himself any clear idea with regard to that involved and implicated transaction. All he could understand was, that there had been a sub commission who had made a report which had been brought forward. That the transaction was involved in obscure and suspicious circumstances, no one could deny, but it was absurd to suppose that the Right Hon. Gentle man should make such a perverted use of his power for so slight an object.—(Cheers and laughter.) but it should be remembered that this was the case of a Member of Parliament of warm feelings, who was not supported by any great party, who imagined that an attempt had been made by a Minister of the Crown to put him down, and that he had resisted that attempt. They should make some allowance for the exaggerations which excited feelings while pardonable vanity—(Cheers and laughter) —would naturally induce a Member under those circum stances to make use of while addressing the masses of the operative community with which he deeply sympathized. What could be more natural than that he should say, " I did this ; I said this. An attempt was made to put me down by a Minister of the Crown, who drew from a green box an unpublished report, but it would not do, I was not to be crushed." Are we, Sir, continued the Hon. Gentleman, come to such a pass that a Member of Parliament was not to be allowed to say this?—(lronical cheers, and laughter.) Was it for a great statesman like the Right lion. Gentleman, to come forward with a demure countenance and say, " the State is in danger, " There's something rotten in the state of Denmark." The House of Commons must interfere to viudicate the reputation of this strong, even if not popular, Ministry. —(Loud cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Gen tleman did not appear at first disposed to move in the subject, and if it had not been for the attack on the Hon. Member for Beverly, he thought they would never have heard of the great Mott case.—(Cheers and laughter.) He deciared solemnly that he had never read the speech of the Hon. Member for Knaresborough, he had never heard it read until ho had heard it read with unusual powers of elocution by the Learned Clerk at the table.—(Laughter.) He had paid great attention to it, and he confessed that he had been astonished at the weakness of the assault. He really thought that on that occasion, when addressing the masses and the mil lions, the lion. Member for Knaresborough had lost a great deal of that impassioned fervour which usually characterised his addresses.—(Cheers and Laughter.) It appeared to him that he did not attack the Hun. Mem ber for Beverley, absent, with half the furor which he ex hibited in attacking the lion. Member for Stockport, present.—(Hear.) He really thought that they might with as much reason have had the speeches which he made almost every night, read at the table, and then have had the Secretary of State solemnly moving a resolution on the subject. Now, he thought this subject had been treated by one great master in the right spirit, Ile thought that when the Right Hon. Gentleman, with that historical research which lie al ways displayed, called their attention to the case of the bottle conjuror, he hit the right nail on the head.— (Laughter.) He was surprised after the admirable example which the Right Hon. Gentleman had set to find him followed as he had been by the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire. There was always something very chivalric about the Noble Lord ; but when they wished to exhibit a perfect model for the Hen. Member for Knaresborough—when they wished to teach him what should be the spirit of Parliamentary discussion, and how an Honourable Member of that House should hesitate before he made a statement that could not be proved, he was rather surprised to find the Noble Lord, the Member for Lancashire, get up, and, in his zeal fur his Right Hon. Friend, denounce the sta'ements made by the lion. Member for Knaresborough as false and calumnious, and announce that the Hon. Member for Knaresborough was conscious that they were false and calumnious when he made them. That was an example which the Hon. Member for Knaresborough would probably study as a model ; and when be returned to that House and re sumed his place, they would probably find his speeches distinguished by that amenity of manner , an d c h o i ce selection of conciliatory expressions, which always cha racterised the speeches of the Noble Lord.—(Laugh ter.) So it always was with the speeches of the Noble Lord the Member for North Lancashire. He destroyed Mr. Ferrand first, and destroyed his own po sition afterwards. He was the Prince Rupert of Parlias mentary discussion. His charge was resisted, but when he returned his camp was always in the possession Then, as if all the great of gunst h e enemy.—(Laughter.) were not sufficient to sink this unfortunate craft, the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department, keeping up the solemn spirit of the farce, rose and said " This is the British House of Commons, and not the hustings." A gentleman might tell hes upon the hustings, but he was not to tell lies in the House. This was the political morality of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department.—(Hear.) Now he entirely differed from the Right Hon. Gentle man. He did not think they ought to tell lies on the hustings.—(Hear, hear.) He thought a gentleman ought to be as measured in what he said on the hustings as in what he said in the House of Commons. — (Hear, hear.) And he would even go further than that, and would say that a Gentle man ought not to make pledges :on the hustings which he did not mean to redeem in that House. He did not think that gentlemen on the hustings ought to denounce the New Poor -law and come into the House of Commons and vote for it.—(Laughter and cheers.) lie called that corrupt and unprincipled conduct— (Cheers)— and if any Honourable Gentleman in that House felt that he was guilty of this conduct, let him propose a vote of censure upon him (Mr. D Israeli) for uttering such a sentiment.—(Great laughter.) On Friday next, the lion. Member for Knaresborough was to come into that House if he accepted the lenient alternative of the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government and they were to recommence the proceedings of which the had had two rehearsals.—(Laughter.) Whether the piece would succeed after the initiating proceedings he could not take upon himself to decide, but he did know that any attempt in that House whether it was right or whether it was wrong, to hunt down an individual had never succeeded, but had always terminated to the disadvantage of the persons attempting it. He remembered what another Sir Robert, who was not a greater man than the present Sir Robert with respect to this subject. That Sir Robert said, " I am quite tired of roasting a parson." After his experience with Mr. Stockdale, and after his contest with the sheriffs, when, as in the present occasion he was supported by the Noble Lord the Member for London, who had rather withdrawn of late his support from the Government. He (Mr. D'lsraeli) thought the Right Mon. Baronet was taking a good humoured view of this case—a bottle-conjurer view of it—and said—" Why, really, after what has occurred, we ought to allow the matter to drop, feeling quite aware that Mr. Ferrand has already re ceived a great moral lesson, aed that when he appears on the hustings in future, I doubt not that he will re member the advice of the Right Hon. Baronet the Se cretary of State, and always be as cautious as he is in the House of Commons.—(Cheers and laughter.) Captain BERKLEY could not agree with the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down in recommending that the two Hon. Gentlemen who were most interested should make this a personal .quarrel. Such a doctrine was most extraordinary, to sa y the least of it. He C a pt. Berkley-) hoped that he would be the last in that House to offer one word of offence to any Hon. Gentleman ; but if he even should do so, he would be ready to apologise for it the next moment. He never would attempt to make a personal quarrel out of any thing which had taken place in his pnblic character. Perhaps, in the first instance, the silent contempt would have been the best cure ; but when, after twenty-four hours deliberation, the Hon. Member for Knaresborough came down yesterday and pledged himself to the truth of his charge, declaring that he would not retract a single word—(Hear, hear)—under these circumstances he did not think that it would be for the dignity of the House that the matter should be allowed to drop.— (Cheers) It must be in the recollection of every gen tleman in the House that the Hon. Member for Knares borough has been cheered on in the most vociferous manner by a set of gentlemen who, whenever the Honourable Gentleman indulged in any coarse language levelled against the Members of the League, or the OppositiOn of that House encouraged him by their " sweet voices."—(Cheers and laughter.) These were, in a great measure, the party answerable for the scrape in which he has now got. It was very aptly remarked by a gentleman en that (the Opposition) side of the House, that the Hon. Member for Knaresborough had been kept like a dog chained up to check the manufac tures, and that having broken his chain, he turned round awl worried his master.—(Cheers and laughter.) Lord J. MANNERS rose, and was (azrt suAxpro.) FREEDOM OF LABOUR. (From the Leeds Times.) " Why should Parliament dictate to grown men and women, or even to young men and young women, how long they should work ? Have not these parties sense enough to refuse doing what they find injurious to them ? May they not leave their work any day that suits them ?"—Leeds Mercury. " Above all, it should not be forgot that fscbory la bour is voluntary, not compulsory. No man, woman, or child need stay in a factory a single day longer than he pleases."—Leeds Mercury. It is contended by the opponents of a Ten Hours' Bill, that the interference of the Legislature in a matter of this kind is a gross violation of the • liber ties of the subject; the advocates of corn-law repeal especially insisting that the only way of shortening the hours of labour is to destroy the necessity of such prolonged drudgery by removing those bur dens and restrictions which cripple trade, making labour cheap and provision dear ; while the Leeds Mercury pressingly insist that all legislative enact ment is an interference with freedom of labour, and that Parliament has nothing to do with shortening the hours of toil, inasmuch as it is voluntary on the part of the labourers, man woman, and child, and they " need not stay in a factory a single day longer than they pleas." Why NI as not the same objection urged when the Government proposed.to take the women and children out of the coal. pits ? That, too, was an interference with the poor man's labour ; and its tendency and actual result was greatly to diminish the earnings of the colliery population. But, no ! Writers of all political parties lauded this measure as one of great humanity and unquestioned necessity. When the revolting features of colliery labour were brought to light by the Children's Employment Commission, and it was found that tender women and helpless children were daily employed underground to do the work of brutes, one general shudder of horror ran throughout society. The thing was too bar barous to be tolerated in a Christian country ; the practice of female and infant slavery in mines was universally condemned ; and men of all parties de manded the interference of the Legislature. They did not see in the question one merely of vested inte rests, of capital sunk, of profits suspended,—but of national humanity, of benevolence and philan thropy. The Legislature, thus invoked from all sides, stepped in and put an end to the practice at once, and let us hope, for ever. Now, the very same principle is involved in the question of factory labour. Society in this country has established the principle of interference, in the case of women and minors. It regards them as unable to protect and defend themselves ; and where it finds them over worked or oppressed, it steps in and interferes. This has already been done in the Factory Bills repeatedly passed by the Legislature. What is now sought for is, that tell hours, and not twelve, should be the standard period of labour in factories, for women and children. But this would be "an interference with the rights of labour, and a violation of the liberties of the subject !" Alas ! how slender are the rights of labour ! How worthless are the liberties of the subject ; What is the " liberty" of the English labourer ? To starve or to toil! He has no alternativ3. He has no liberty. He has no proprietorship in the State. He is cut off from all rights and privileges. He is taxed without his consent ; his earnings are taken from him by a class who are altagether irresponsible to him ; and thus he is, to all intents and purposes, a slave. He has no alternative but to toil or famish. He yokes himself, body and soul, to the iron machine — a sleepless, indefatigable labourer, whose only food is a little oil. Not only himself, but his wife and children, must also yoke themselves to the work. They run a neck-and.neck race with want. What a mockery to speak to them of free dom ! And oh, what bitterness of mockery to tell them that after Parliament has interfered to protect the dumb brutes, and also to protect the women and children of the colliers, that they are not to be re- Lieved because it would be an interference with their iberty ! MILITARY INTELLIGENCE—CHATHAM, APRIL 22. The following regiments from the provisional battalion of this garrison have this day received orders for embarkation, to proceed to the three presidencies of India during the present season. Those for Bengal are the 9th, 10th, 29th, 31st, 39th, 40th, 50th, and 62d, with the following officers of each corps, ordered by Colonel Thomas Weare, K.H„ of the battalion, to hold themselves in readiness to embark for India in the ships as they are taken up for the conveyance of troops Lieutenant Creagh, Ensign O'Connor, Ensign Foster, Ensign Hawes, of the 9th ; Captain Staunton, Captain Shandly, Ensign Angelo, of the 10th ; Ensign Francis , Ensign White, Ensign Scudamore, of the 29th ; Major James Spence, Lieut. Elmslie,'Ensign Paul, Ensign Hutton, 31st ; Lieut. Wolfe, Lieut. Reader, Lieut. Ensor, Lieut. Bray, Lieut. Fitzgerald, Assistant-Surgeon M'Gregor, 39th ; Captain Valiant, Captain Smith, Ensign Payne, 40th ; Captain Stapleton, Lieutenant Maloney, Actiug-Adjutant of the Provisional Battalion, Lieut. Montmorencie, Ensign Venables, Ensign Vernett, Ensign Purcell, 50th ; Ensign Roberts and Ensign Cox, of the 62d Regiment. The officers for Madras are Captain Bell, Captain 'Peale, Lieutenant Bolton, Lieutenant Cumming, Ensign Col ville, Ensign Ellison of the 4th ; Lieutenant Peddie, Assistant-Surgeon Webster, of the 21st Fusiliers ; Lieu tenant L. Trevors, Ensign Smith, 25th ; Lieutenant Frost, Lieutenant Ahmuty, Lieutenant Grant, 57th ; Lieu tenant Higginbotham, Ensign M'Cauley, Ensign Le Grand, 63d ; Captain Richardson, 84th ; Captain M'Gee, 94th Regi ment. The officers for Bombay are Captain J. Carney, En sign M'Carty, and Ensign Engles, of the 2d Queen's; Cap tain Burslem and Ensign Hogg, of the 13th ; Captain Maule verer, Lieutenant Armstrong, Lieutenant Johnstone, and Ensign Noland, of the 17th ; Ensign Baldwin, Lieutenant Miller, 22d ; Lieutenant Dane, Ensign Wright, Ensign Ellis, 28th ; Captain Elvington, Lieutenant Prettyjohn, Ensign M'Lean, Assistant-Surgeon M'Kinnon, and Assistant-Sur geon Bowie, of the 78th Highlanders; Lieutenant Wood, Ensign Gerahtley, Ensign Robinson, and Ensign Stewart— making a total of 73 officers. The two following detachment s marched this morning from this garrison, as a convict guard, to Deptford, where they embark on board the convict ship Barrosa, to proceed with convicts for Van Diemen's Land. The guard comprised 1 sergeant, 3 corporals, and 31 rank and file of the 58th Regiment, with 15 rank and file of the 80th, to complete the guard. Lieutenant William Birch, of the 25th, formerly Adjutant of the 6th Royals, commands the guard, in lieu of Lieutenant Page, of the 58th, who enters the 7th Hussars, by purchase; Ensign St. John, of the 80th, and 4 women and 1 child, belonging to the soldiers of the 58th, proceed with the detachment. THE WELLINGTON STATUE IN THE CITY.—At the last meeting of the Royal Exchange Committee on the sub ject of placing the statue of his Grace the Duke of Wellington, by Sir Francis Chantrey, the trustees, Mr. John Masterman and, Sir Peter Laurie, and the executors, Mr. Turner, R.A., and Mr. Jones, discussed, at considerable length, the question as to the most eligible position of the equestrian figure on the spot selected in the front of the Royal Exchange. Upon that occasion Sir Peter Laurie stated that Sir Francis Chantrey always expressed a wish that the statue should face the south, in order that it might have the advantage 2 i the sun, for which purpose the eminent sculptor saggestid. the re moval of the ugly upper storey of the Mansion-house, which was accordingly taken down, to the manifest improvement of that edifice. Mr. Jones confirmed the statement as to the opinion and wish of Sir Francis Chantrey. The Committee, however, came to the resolution, that, as the front of the Royal Exchange faced the west, it would, notwithstanding the impression upon the mind of so high an authority, be preposterous to turn the face of the statue . away from that direction, and they accordingly agreed unammousiy that the Duke should front Cheapside. Mr. Turner, the other exe cutor, informed the Committee that the statue and pedestal had long been completed; and he trusted that by the 18th of June, the anniversary of the battle of Waterloo, the public would have a complete -opportunity of judging of the merits of the performance. The Committee seemed to entertain no doubt that on the anniversary of the memorable event the statue would be erected. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, April 23. PRESBYTERIAN MARRIAGES. Lord CAMPBELL presented a petition, complaining of the late decision in the case of the Presbyterian marriage question. DISSENTERS' CHAPELS BILL. The LORI) CHANCELLOR stated to their Lord ships that, on Friday next, the day originally named, he should propose the second reading of the Dissenters' Chapels Bill, and go into Committee on the Bill upon the following Friday. FACTORIES BILL. Lord HATHERTON presented a petition, signed by the heads of eight firms in the iron trade, in Stafford shire, in which upwards of 5,000 men were employed, praying that no limitation in the hours of labour should be enacted by their Lordships, but that the work people might be allowed to exercise their own discretion. He concurred in the prayer of the petition. Lord BROUGHAM, after a few remarks upon the truck system, again deprecated any restriction of the hours of labour ; for, he said, if legislative interference was necessary, he should rather exert it against the ca pital of the large manufacturer than against the labour of the artisan. _ _ Lord BROWNLOW thought it would be much better if they were to defer any discussion upon the subject of the Factories Bill until it came regularly before their Lordships. The Bishop of LONDON presented several petitions from Presbyterian ministers and congregations in the north of Ireland, in connection with the General As sembly, against the Dissenters' Chapels Bill. The Duke of RICHMOND presented a number of petitions from places in the county of Ross, against any alteration in the corn-laws. BHURTPORE. The Marquis of NORMANBY, after presenting a petition from a Presbyterian congregation in the north of Ireland in favour of the Dissenters' Chapels Bill, gave notice, that on Monday ho should ask the Noble Lord at the head of the Board of Control if any further extracts or communications had been received from the Gover nor-General of India respecting the treaty of Bhurtpore THE IRISH POOR-LAW. The "Marquis of CLANRICARDE wished to ask L. Noble Duke opposite whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to propose -any alteration in the Irish Poor•law Act ? The Duke of WELLINGTON, who spoke very indis tinctly, said a report had been received from the Com missioners appointed to inquire into this subject, and that, after consideration, it had been sent back to them to make certain emendations. The report would soon be laid upon the table of their Lordships' House, and until such information was before them he thought it would be better to defer framing any legislative measure. If they thought it would be better to appoint.a Com mission, be, for one; had no objection to such a course. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE, from what had fallen from the Noble Duke, supposed that there war, no intention to make any alteration. The Duke of WELLINGTON sa id, w h a t h e stated was that he thought it best to defer any measure until they should have had time to consider the report. The Marquis of NORMANBY said he wished to call the attention of their Lordships to one point, which, in the present state of Ireland was one of vast importance. He alluded to the manner in which the juries empannelled at the last assizes of the county Monaghan had been con stituted in the Queen v. Hanlon, and others. In that part of Ireland this matter had excited the greatest dissatisfaction, because a feeling prevailed there that many of the jurors had been struck off because they were Roman Catholics, and certainly he thought that there were certain circum stances which were calculated to excite those suspicions. Many of the jurors, whose names had been struck off the panel were most respectable, and not the slightest impu tation could be cast upon their character which justified their names in being removed. Lord WHARNCLIFFE said he held in his hand a letter from the Crown solicitor, in which this matter was fully explained, and which completely proved that no man was removed on account of his politics or religion, but the fact was, that all those names which had been struck off the panel were either relations, near neigh bours of the traversers, or were in some way or another unfitted for acting as jurors. The first name which had been set aside by the Crown solicitor was the son of a person whose father had been tried at Armagh for Ribbonism —the very crime of which the traversers were accused ; another was a near relation of ore of the prisoners, and a third was a neighbour of another. Lord CAMPBELL gave the Government credit for every good intention, but still he was not at all satisfied with the explanation rendered by the Noble Lord the President of the Council. He thought the slightest suspicion of partiality, on account of religion, should not be allowed to remain upon the public mind. After a few words from the Earl of Wicklow, Lord . Wharncliffe, and the Marquis of Clanricarde, the House adjourned at Seven o'Clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 23. MR. FERR AND'S ACCUSATIONS. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said he had no objection to offer to the adjournment of this discussion, and he quite agreed with the Right Hon. Gentlemen, that it was ex tremely desirable to take time to form a deliberate opinion on a subject of this nature. At the same time he had no hesitation to state at once what was his im pression. It was to have been expected that the Hon Gen tleman would that day have either repeated his charges or have withdrawn and retracted those charges.—(Hear.) He had taken neither course, and he had fled from the charge without abandoning it.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Beverley, very naturally, in this state of things, asked the House to interpose. He understood him most distinctly to ask the House to interpose on this subject, after the statements which had been made. He added, most truly, that he was not the person to bring this subject forward ; that so far as it depended upon him, it might have rested ; but that having been brought forward, he could not .rest satisfied unless the House pro nounced some opinion upon it. He thought the demand a most fair one. The Hon. Gentleman stood in a posi tion of great importance, and every one who filled the situation of Chairman of an Election Committee was in volved in the question, whether the House would not think it necessary to protect Members in that situation against charges thus lightly made, and thus apparently, but not fairly and honestly, abandoned. With respect to the course (continued the Noble Lord) which we are called on to adopt with regard to the Hon. and Learned Gentle man, the Member for Beverley, I think that that course does not admit of any difficulty. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman has read from a newspaper an extract of a speech made by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. We have heard the Hon. Member fer Knaresborough state that that report is correct. I think, therefore, with all due deference to other Hon. Members, and more especially to you, Sir, that if the Hon. and Learned Gen tleman to-morrow put in that newspaper, and has the passage read, that the House of Commons then come to a resolution to the effect that an Honourable Member of this House, mentioning, of course, the name of Mr. Ferrand, had acknowledged himself to be the author of the speech produced, and that the House is of opinion that the charge contained in that speech against another Honourable Member of this House, is a false and calumnious charge.—(Cheers.) I, for One, am prepared to take that course—(Loud cheers.) If there is any one who, as the Honourable and Learned Gentleman says, imagines that, for one moment, there can be any doubt on this subject—if there is any one who thinks that the Hon. Gentleman, in the discharge of his duty, for one moment considered what course it would be desirable for him to pursue in order to please a Minister of the Crown—or that there is the slightest particle of evidence to show that, in the execution of his duties as a Chairman of a Committee, he in the slightest degree permitted himself to be controlled by the Go vernment—if any :one entertained any doubt upon the subject—it would be perfectly competent for that Hon. Member to give expression to his opinions. For myself, I have not the smallest doubt on the subject. I think that after the assertion of such a charge, and after such a contradiction has been given to it, such a resolution of the House as that to which I have alluded is due to the Hon. and Learned Member against whom the charge was brought, and also due to the character of the House. --(Cheers.) The case of the Right Hon. Gentleman is so far different, that he has not asked for the opi nion of the House. Ido not understand him to say that he thinks it necessary to call in his case fur any decision of the House. At the same time my opinion is, that after the manner in which this matter has been stated, some mode should be adopted by which an lion. Mem s ber in his place, imputing to a Minister of the Crown that he had procured a false report to be made by an officer under his direction, for the purpose of bringing charges against a Member of that House, was an utterly groundless charge.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentle.• man himself does not make any formal complaint. I think it necessary that we should see what resolution the House has come to on such subjects on former occasions, when it has been thought neces sary to come to resolutions on the subject of the con duct of Members of the House. The last case in which any resolutions of this description were come to, was in the case of Mr. O'Connell, which stated that all the Members serving on Election Committees had been guilty of bribery. That was a general charge, which I thought the House would have done well not to notice. The House, however, differed from me in opinion, and we have, therefore, a precedent on the subject. I think that any general charge such as that against all the Members composing Election Commit tees, ought not to be noticed; but it is different in the case of a particular charge a specific accusation brought against a particular Member, whether he be holding an office under the Crown, or whether he be entrusted with the discharge of important duties. I am afraid that, on the one hand, if we invariably enter into the general subjects of all imputations that may be made upon the conduct of Members of this House, that we should be involved in endless difficulties ; but, on the - other hand, if we pass over such imputations as those which have been avowed by a Member of this House we should render ourselves liable to the imputation of being indifferent to the character of this House. — (Cheers.) I have thus stated, shortly, what my impres sions are as to the course to be pursued, and if any bet ter course can be suggested to-morrow I shall be quite ready to listen to it ; and I think it would be better now to adjourn the question till to-morrow. Lord STANLEY—I concur with the Noble Lord in the propriety of the House not taking any course now upon these extraordinary circumstances, for I believe that there is no case in Parliamentary history which can fairly be made the ground of precedent for the extraor dinary circumstance which has occurred this evening. I do not believe that, with regard to the groundlessness of the charge made either against my Right Hon. Friend or my Hon. Friend, there is in this House the smallest difference, or shade of difference, of opinion, —(Cheers.) I do not believe that a man here does not believe—that he does not feel confident not only' upon the charge itself, but on the entire and absolute improbability of proving them.—(Cheers.) But more than this, I be lieve that, at the time those charges were made, the lion. Member who made them had not the slightest ground for believing that they were true.—(Cheers.) This being the case, the Member of this House repeat ing those calumnious charges in his place in this House, is challenged to the proof of those charges, and with an appearance of boldness, comes down to this House on the following day pledged, as far as he can be pledged, to substantiate those charges in the presence of that tribunal to which the accuse had appealed, and before which he himself, in duty bound, was compelled to sub stantiate his imputations. On 'his second appearance, when the case was ready to be heard—when the tribunal was ready to which an appeal had been made—what course was taken by the Hon. Member for Knares borough ? It was this that, at the appearance of the first outbreaking of that natural feeling excited on both sides of the House, by the unjustifiable proceeding of the Hon. Gentleman, he demurs to the authority of this tri bunal, and says that this assembly is not one to which he would appeal, or ;which he would think qualified to judge of the propriety of his conduct—that it was an assembly between which and himself, he himself had stated, there existed no sympathy of feeling—(Cheers) —and adhering to the charge which he had made, not only declines to substantiate it, but with draws, without allowing the accused themselves to express their opinion and their indignation at the gross and libellous matter which had been brought forth by him. Now in this case what course is the House to pursue ? I differ from the Noble Lord in thinking that it entirely depends upon the feelings of the parties. The Noble Lord draws a distinction between the case of my Right Hon. Friend and the case of my Hun. Friend the Member for Beverley. He said that the Hon. Member for Beverley had appealed to the judgment and had ap pealed to the protectiun of this House, and that my Right Hon. Friend did not do so. Now that is not the question which the House bas to determine. It is not with respect to the individual character of certain Mem bers alone that we have to decide—we are not to judge by the indignation felt by one party or the contempt which is shown by another. But it is for the House to consider what course it will pursue for the mainten ance of its own character and its own hondur. But I aw sure the Noble Lord'will see with me—(Lord John Russell made some observations- across the table, which induced Lord Stanley to sit down). Lord J. RUSSELL then said—What I stated was, that it made wane difference as to the form in which the House should proceed. As to the case of the Hon. Member for Beverley, that gentleman could put in the newspaper and-have it read by the Clerk of the House, as it was admitted by the Hon. Member for Knaves borough ; but he thought that in respect- to - his Right Hon. Friend, who- was a Minister of the _Crown for the Home Department,"the form of proceeding should --per haps be somewhat different. - - • " Lord KAM= was glad thlsrt tho Fable PO NA given the explanation, and stated the distinction ' wili tr e ! he had drawn; but he must say, that if they we re to te^; notice of the charge against one Member, and pass °Y e ' the imputations which had been cast upcn another, el would seem to give a sanction to the calumny. He uld only to repeat, that whatever course the House eu" b , think proper to take in one case, they would take t, same course with regard to the other charge brag,' forward by the same individual under similar eirculn. stances. Lord JOHN RUSSELL had not proposed that I . ,Ll if ' t ferent course should bo followed in the two cases. Pt, he had suggested the direct course they the case of the Hon. Member for Beverley. t h The SPEAKER said there was no question before re House ; but if the house wished to come to any determination on the subject, he would recommetwo'np, the newspaper, which had been admitted by the m , - ,; Member for Knaresborough, should be read by the et t might take 1 ' at the table, and then the House could consider 01'5 further was to be done. his Mr. BLACKBURN wished to say a few words C hair . , occasion. On a former occasion, when he was. Gil mm of' the Shaftesbury Committee, he had been foil2o and calumniously assailed ; and he came before turf, House to claim its support. His slanderers A yer shielded and protected by the Noble Lord the M en/ t he for London, but he did receive support frotn,e. Noble Lord the Member for North Lance-olio He would advise the House then, seeing that tini e ,:: r i to be given for reflection, to go back to the Shaftesual.:o, case, and he trusted that, in the present instance, 1; 0 , would show a little better feeling than they had in ,l Sir ROBERT PEEL trusted the advice for .e which had been giv(n would at once be acted or t ii iis, (Hear, hear.) The House wonid lose nothing by de• but would be in a much better position than now W cide upon the course that ought to be pursued. t he Sir R. INGLIS rose, but the rush of Members W fo e door prevented him from being heard, aid, in t fe ll seconds, the benches of the House were compe rsi "" ti empty. CONVOCATION OF THE CLERGY' . to. Mr. P. BORTHWICK rose for the purpose of posing the following motion for an " address to her, use d jesty, praying that her Majesty will be graciously p er to afford to Parliament, in all matters ecclesiasti..ea" advice and assistance of the clergy in convecen °ll ; e nt sembled, according to the Constitution and the al lc ,; o e usage of the realm." The Hon. Member was for n o ise minutes unable to proceed in consequence of the o f of from Members quitting the House. Some degs T l e quiet having been restored, the Hon. Gentleman s t i ns e must claim the indulgence and forbearance of th e T hiel 'on the present occasion. The circumstances under vi . c es he addressed the House, added to the disadvanwficeit which surrounded the subject he had to submit W o st consideration. That subject was no less than th, e ,„4 cherished rights and liberties, which it was their pll,"; nn privilege to,defend at the present time, and tranew, of impaired to posterity. Yet to the greater numbenttle those whom he was then addressing , in more than the name of the institution•oo.o, favour of which he was speaking, was Illintber This was not a question of theology; if it were, place would have been the most proper for brinFOoti forward. It would be well to know what a :eonfroat of the clergy was, what was its character, en Chris' were its uses. At the original introduction of '- fro o tirinity into the country, the bishops of the diocesep t he time to time collected the clergy to consult thew affairs of the Church. All matters of doctrine 'an f t he cipline, and all matters relating to the efficieneY of Church were discussed in those synods. In the coo of time those convocations were divided into tvvo"v i ose of York and Canterbury. The Crown applied W o blio convocations in order to obtain supplies for the in the service, they having the power of self-taxation.. . 0 0P year 1664, it was agreed that the clergy s hould,g i t her o their privilege of self-taxation, and since that ti_netpe tber' was a singular want of care in calling that bodyh em' The convocation of the clergy at a time when pro ; bers shed their blood in defence of their rign';sl'. ceeded steadily in a course of action to which vier-ost'" at the present day, the salvation of the Englis, ll : h tution from the tyranny and oppression 1 "1 - 101 15 '' brought to bear upon it. As a Member of that pu ll he was called on to legislate upon the subjeet c j roort tl i education, and therefore he wished to have th e nity of those standing council to the realnli w be / , been provided by-the Constitution, and who 100 - able to inforna him as to the proper mode of 18 & on so important a subject. o l' An Horr. MEMBER moved that the House be c'"aill and, there being only twenty-seven Members P ori the House adjourned, at Seven o'Clock, until Urni - LLOYD'S SHIPPING. t VESSELS SPOKEN WlTH.—Hindoo London O re South Wales, 7th ult., lat. 16 S., lon. 27 W. ; V ires 11 ,! land, of Whitehaven, 12th ult., lat. 1 S. lon. 2 25 18. 0 : Glenarm, New Zealand to London, lat. 21 N., 1011. let 5g Lady Peel, Falmouth to New York, 16th inst'' 10, 11 long. 17 ; barque Pallas, standing S., 13th a1r,', , 1 3 `, N., lon. 22 W. ; Victoria, Penzance to Am inst., lat. 47, lon. 17 ; Eliza Mary, of Poole, fr c !, -- er e, sins, 27th ult., by the Pillgwelly, arrived at .1 . '"0, /I * Rowlyn, from London, 13th ult., by the Speyk, arrived at Rotterdam. • • ,00° P. LOSS of the JOHN DENNISTON, of LIVI'--044., FOREIGN OFFICE, APRIL 22, tri to' i " Sir,—l am directed by the Earl of Aberdeen 0010; mit to you, for the information of the chair l ' 3 " ,d fr o be f committee at - Lloyd's, the copy of a dispatchl Majesty's Consul at Mobile, reporting the tottll o-- 0 the British barque " John Denniston " of J-60. near Cape St. Antonio. (Signed) To W. Dobson, Esq., Lloyd's, (Copy.) ,164 4, MOBILE, DiAncli My Lord,—l have the honour to inform Yr e foonr,o ship that the British barque "John Dennistoa• COer master, from Liverpool to Mobile, ran ashora„, 11,e if tr ay o f St. Antonio, Cuba, and is a total loss. :I.lelfetso arrived at Key West on the 12th instant With , i l e ft c e the crew. The mate and three of the crew hsm; wreck in a boat for the ilavannah, and have °- been heardhave, &c. 11 . 10 - • igned) CHARLES FITZ O- To the Earl of Aberdeen, K.T., &c. &c. INTERESTING TO LADIES° Do ilPfl' To Messrs. Rowland and Son, 20, Hatton-W (1 .1 1 1 19 4 '); ( 0 Percy-place, Landport, Portsmouth, AP,,.. 11 To o rio ri ll Gentlemen,--I think it but an act of Pei" you of the benefit I have derived from the u s t, admirable Macassar Oil. About six months 11 %4 >fl it ray hair getting daily more weak and thing, t i - ettiV discoloured, from a practice I had adopted 0 ' 01P - fof continually ; fearing that I should lose it e li fbsy 9 bo' hearing of the efficacy of your-Macassar Oil, 1$ is, t e d some time past constantly used it, and the restior°ool my hair is now perfectly restored and ruir, ll darlhdP in appearance and colour, having become th ick ' o f 1 3 70 e, glossy ; it also curls freely without the us e c is I igil" which it never did before. To all my frieo o c warmly recommended your Macassar Oil as a j 11,,5 1 , 1 10 restorative and preservative .for the hair. - 1 "„ objection to see my name in print, I beg Y° - lett e ;o s publish it; but you are at liberty to show tlasoplief make any other use you please of it, and refer tor to me, if necessary, in proof of the efficacy of / cassar Oil.—Your obedient servant,t b cel • • • • • Oa ° Orst Rowland's Macassar Oil preserves and reP i n s Hair ; prevents it from falling off o r toll' {My Changes Grey Hair to its Original C oloor; ti follf from Scurf and Dandruff, and makes it belt° and curly. al." Ask for " Lowland ' s Macassar - _./ 1 it 6, All others are fraudulent counter ,ier ..‘,. ---, ,- the l ' ct e l. ST. GEORGE'S DAY.— i esterally W.'S .., A Il i a $ 1 ,4 11 . sary of the death of the patron Saint of Engla" - 5 all""=.eafrol which is now called the Order of the Garter , Is. y io tki t 4 Edward the Sixth's time, called the Order ° a 0 5 ' ; ft 'he figure of St. George on horseback, represen,t:the I ' so °l th e a spear and killing the dragon, was first worn • ".'134 9- 0 ; i l ,e of the Garter on the institution of that order i 3 (iv fr o i l l id is suspended by a blue ribbon across the 13° tr IVIS,,, e 10,: t o shoulder. This patron saint of England was , ce urt i K e iiv o l , reign of Diocletian, and being a man of gres" co ols, Il t.e . favourite with the Emperor; but St. Georger,o6tiOfteci the Emperor of his severities towards the ' nr ison arguing in their defence, he was put into r headed, April 23, A.D. 290. , of alo l ' BIRTHS. 001 0 ' til B On the 21st inst., at Bath, the lady of S ir ,a, do a son, who survived but a short time. n iber l ' l cot , Nor th ae gin i ttb Ur. On the 18th inst., at Tynemouth lady of Major .W. Franklyn , of ' No the 37th 'slog, ...., 1 0 son and heir. f g e w., i >< On the 22d inst., at Clapham, the wif e ° t he Quil l ' 1 , Deacon, Esq., of a daughter. , .10 0 On the 18th inst., at Witbycombe, near ra' of John H. Doyle, Esq ,of a daughter. Rife of til ,, e ff' ' On the 20th inst., at Colchester, the w l or. Laing, Esq., of a son. t, 13 . 1°° 00 On the 20th inst., at Great Russell-stree Sr i° 6 Mrs. Butt, of a daughter. „ e ller? „. 1 13 On the 21st inst., at Gloucester-road, Limo , np ir", R. J. S. Todd, of a son. P- 1 / yea,. A On the 21st inst., at Earlswood Lodge , htv , ..t r° lady of Major E. P. Lynch, K.L.S., of a dang ile be'' ,Ito On the 91st inst., at Upper Tooting , 1111. kc • A stub ,tti of a son. , On the 21st inst., Mrs. Curling, in On ()fa daughter. ~ of P. ,-• On the 22d instat Hampstead,the le-, ~ Esq., of a daughter. 0 0. 4 /Ate r j oy Albion' 08 "' ,:.:700‘' On the 10th inst., Ii'IRRIED. Rev. James Faithfull at Florence, at the ~,a o ~.a t ., to , , of Hatfield, Herts, _, 4 °,resi."l7l4, of J. L. Payson, Esq., United States' Constoti; ebsio Y On the 19th inst.,at St. Pancras, New-1•19,-ta We s s'• f ‘). mann, Esq., to Emma, second daughter 0 t be c io of Stamford-hill. ter 1 7 11 0 '4. , On the 20th inst., Westilaint'l Derr fi at St. JaMe3'o9 1 ors ~ o err John Finla yson, M.A. Christ Church Cat 1 or 7 , , Elizabeth, eldest daughter of the late DlAl left ,--.' Argyll-street, '' the Regent-street. _------------ bt31113, . 10 DIED. 11()%too, Fick" On the 20th inst., at Charles-squa re, wife of Samuel Austin Fuller, Esq . aged 5 4. 4 tooi, , On the 29th of November last, 'at Hobary P all' .• • Futneaux Hunt, E lififilso ~01 On the Igth ' sq. • - inst., Matilda, the wife of 0 9 British ) E . ct , of Sion-hill, Bath. •,,,c, Ge °4 On the 18th inst ,at Broupton-row, '''" , L°, - , 0. son, of Camden-tow . n fss,;,,eu j, T .— e o w n ar t t 7 E l B B q t . h , a i g n e s d t., B a:t . Huskar ds,lngatoit°friCe'oPf°rd.-e'rl6' relict of the Rev. J. Kelly, LL.D , Rector o to rov of ries Simmons,On the El9sq.th,isnosltic.,itoart. Beley - bi ll, ' c ' cbsster .;A C t l : l - s : til Se ; On the 19th inst., at Giant= • House , I C°r On the 19th inst., at Lansdown Ex st Of John Hunter, al aged 48. If rbet Gale; el° , 7 . ,t On the 20 h Rees, ~r , t inst., at Wien; e ~,,, Esq. 4;130 I i'' ---------.--- • . 1- 1., 4rt -London :- Printed and Published by Di oftbotf N.. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Szio,... Os ‘. StFwid, in the Precinct a the Savoy, Pa 14d41040X1 Wedliddgit AO 241 - 11" ..piace . _vs.. 500 LO nor 111 Z pA 'k , Tfi The G kc; fi g or tlltil I .B4IL RA] P • °. 7 • be per pk: tit,' • Veber '° ,l cer J ar rt ret (l4ini (froai t ! n , 41 '4 , v e Tick e e t , essra, Cr; .4kettti) T 0 .404, 1142, kt„ alnforthZED ki nd and , Chi TiAtsesilers ; . cro ss ; Fedo r 17 t , Of It, • ItOyAtit Th kie r e 10 Xs ° C 1 /4 444 Y, lir The iejt sh Yat e ur al ' e s It lt,?°rerli e neln g D 1 8 104 411 the I , 4 o tvi \;111) ti lkl7 ' l ' ' a n tl 4 l l , 3.4l ov -cala n , , leas e tha oPtito t til e s: elk t° In - " 3. E1t1 fi t a:: °ll ta, " } i th ° fi t at tat at th,7t k 43 he tins Rott N I , . aireaciy ac either $O 3. 44lga g , 114 4ii°ther