The Sun. — London, England, 1821-06-07 00:00:00

good,.as they proposed, the effect would be the': utmost possible mischief—awakening feelings of intense bitterness by vexatious prosecutions, and in all cases tending more to create hatred and dread of the laws themselves, than the fear of of. lending them, accompanied .by confidence in their protection. Here he could not help advert ing to the terms of mock modesty in which an Eon. Baronet, a Member of the House, had been addressed by the Secretary of the association very recently. But without remarking more . fully upon the character of that address, lie begged leaveto express his concurrence in the declaration of the Petitioner, that if some means - Were not adopted to stay 'the doings of this So ', 'ciety,- the 'Petitioner was- . likely to suffer more than ever fithn them; by having thus made him ' - self an object. of their vengeance. His own - opinion was, that the - design of the AsSociation - went to cull) and destroy the liberty of the Press, under - the 'specious pretext of -loyalty and attach mint to the Constitution. The scheme was a • compoUnd of folly and wickedness, but in any case the'Society - could shew no right for taking • on theniselves to supersede the constitutional au-, thorities ' of the 'realm, nor to encroach on the • duties of the Secretary of State and the Attor • ney General. 'lie cordially supported the Pe tition - which hethen brought up: Sir M. CHOLMELEY having been slightly allud • ed to by the Hon.* and Learned Member, ac.- knowledged that his name was' attached ,to the list of the Association, and he would account for • it as well as he was - able. - When he came to town in . the 'eatly - part of the Session he was • -shocked• at the number of . indecent paragraphs . on the walls, . and the caricatures in some of the shop windows. He remembered well when he • vas a boy•that People had to go into the shops to examine the less decent caricatures ; whereas tow women could not pass the streets without having their eyes insulted with foul *advertise • ments and indecent caricatures Publicly exhibit • ed in the - windows. He particularly instanced, -one, which represented . a bull,- with a woman on his back, intended, as he understood it, to re present a royal person, lie thought when. he joined- the Association that their objects were to • be by no means political. He believed that they • might have exceeded their discretion, blithe ex cused them from any ''blame as to their motives. • Ills Parliamentary duties had been too . severe to • ;alliiw of his attendance at their meetings, and he. - tdid not consider hiniself at all responsible for what they had done. .For his own part, lie could boast of nothing except that he brought with him • as loyal a theart and as strong a determination as • it was possible for any Member to possess. Mr..DENIII.OI said, that the House .must give • the Hon. Baronet credit for his intentions, and nothing could better describe, the nature and the - proceedings of that Association better than the statement they had just heard. It was evident • the active principles of it were to . be ascribed to: a crew of adventurers, who procured concurrence • in their desim b ns from parties who knew little or • nothing of their doings. It was. remarkable, however, that the attention of this Association • were so liVely to libels upon .one party; while • they displayed such astonishing supineness to . the • most detestable slanders issued with respect to • others. They confined their prndent insults to poor news-venders, while some of their own body, perhaps, came reeking with the infamous scandals - which -were circulating to the profanation of the • Sabbath, under the eyes of all.—[The lion. and 'Learned Member here - took - occasion to• justify • :his condtict as an Advocate in a late cause of con • • . 'siderable madnitude, from some imputation un - ;heard ii the'gallery, which he supposed to have • 'been put upon it by the lion. Baronet who spoke last-]-11 - e.begked leaVe to declare, that whenever .!his profeSSimial cruties plaCed him in Opposition to a -prosecutor, however •high in station, and -owning whatever ad vaiita2;es of powier s he would , discharge his duty faithfully, 'by scrutinizing the -conduct, and It might be the charaCter of such a : party; if theinterest of his . client shOuld justly require. it of him. Sir M. =CHOLMELEY intimated, that he intended no al fusion to. the Hon.- and. Learned Gentleman. • • Mr. DEN:II.IN acknowledged his mistake, and his satis faction at the explanation. The Petition •was ordered to be printed • • • . Mr. S. WORTLEY,prented -ae.Petition from ShefFreld, :against the Poor Laws A.mendment Bill.—Laid on the Table. • • Petitionfrorn the Mei:Chants of Halifax, praying for the . Tr.peal of the Foreign Wool Tax.—Ordered to be printed. Lard STANLEY presented a petition fronLAshbourne, in 'Derbyshire, against the Pooi Laws Regulation Bill. - • • • Mr; SGARLETT referred to an initancewherein a man h;cl preferred receiving 6s. 6d. per week from the parish to the re ' ceipt of 3s. a week for,work, • The'petition was ordered to lid on • the table.: • . • . = CLOVER' SEED.' Colonel DAVIES brought in a Bill to prevent the adulteration of Clover Seed.—Read a first time, and moved to be read a se . • ' , coed time on Friday next: ••••• ' • , •• Mr. ROBINSON said, that as this was a Bill enacting pe naities, it was desirable., that it should be. fully understood •by the Potiie, and niOre tithe ought to be. given. Pr its con . ,sideratiob. .. • • • • • Colopel.PAVl ES observed, that if the Bill were not speedily passed, it would ript•answer the purpose-for which it wasbrought • in: In compliance with 'Right Iron. Gentleman's Wish, '!- however, he had no objection' to peistpkte . the ieconitreading to Wedne;day n,ext. . 1 - - • ‘• Mr. WILBERFORPE postponed.. the .dropped Qrder of - the preceding day; relative tO the Slate Trade, till AiredneS .. day next. CRIMINAL ..14NITS:i . • . • • Sti ,TAMES MACKINTOSH moved the Order. of the . Day .v for receiving.th&Repc . irts on the DwellitigllonSe Robberi; and the Robbery on Navigable Rivers 8i115..• He: fetbere making any observations on the subject of. these Nils, as he under : - it wa.Vnot intended to make any opposition td them in ; -that stage.—The Reports'weie then brought up and read; and the Bills ordered for a third reading on Friday..TOBACCO. • . • - ' Mr.'LUSHtNGTON bioughtin a Bill to alter the dulies -on Tobacco and Snuff. .` Mr. BENNET and Mr. BRIGHT made. some objections • -to the Bill. • • Mr. LUSIIINGTON said, he should' Wish the HoliSe to have ample time for,the consideration of-the Bill. • • The Bill was read a first time , and ordered for a second read ing on n ednesday next; • • Mr. Alderman. WOOD' breught'up the Report on the Evi .dence on the. London Bridge. Committee.—Ordered to lie upon -.the table. Mr. RICARDO - presented a Petition from an Inhabitant of •Glamorganshire, relative to the amelioration of the 'stale of the common classes of society.—Read, . and ordered to, lie on • the table. . ' - — ISDAND Ore TOBAGO. • *; • , Lord NUGENT . tose ,. to fulfil his notice of a mo -tion for inquiry intd the abuses whiCh existed in the administration of justice in 'the Above island. - stating the facts which had - come to' his - knoWledge,:he pledged himself te , advance no - thing.but!'whut .was substantiated by sworn and • - leighly creditable witnesses. Tie had the greater .part -of •thenthrough one Mr. Capper, who had: been sent out to Tobago as Attorney-Geberal of the island. When arrived there, he witnessed strong cases of flagrant and violent denials of jus tice, in which he found himself compelled either to become a participator, or submit to a life of mortification.and trouble in endeavouring to pre vent them.---He could not say that justice was sold in this island, but it was so thwarted and impeded as to prevent it, or render it nugatory. Offices, intended as checks to each other, were united in the same person, and acts of the foulest injustice were committed by the chief public officers. Mr. Capper came home with great ex pence ant' difficulty, and represented the case to the Colonial Secretary, who directed an inquiry among the officers of the island. They made a return, disowning the facts stated by Mr. Cap- Per, and stigmatizing him in the grossest manner. Upon this return Lord Bathurst acted, and in formed Mr. Capper . that no further notice 'could be taken of his .complaint. Ire would confine the statements which he was about to submit to two, which were supported as to the fact by the report of the officers, themselves ; besides which, the most respectable witnesses were read y to depose before a Committee Of one were to be appointed), as to the truth of what he would state. Mr. Cap per went out 'early in 1819 to the island. In May, following he was passing the prison of Scar borough, and saw a wretched victim looking through the bars, whose- case he' subsequently became too well acquainted with. His name was Edward Hoskins ; he had been confined twelve weeks for an assault on one of the public officers, as it was alleged. lie was altogether neglected by 'his gaoler, and * hopeless of his liberty, because he had in fact committed no crime. The Deputy Provost Marshal was Mr. Robert Mitchell, whose father was the principal, now living at Hampstead, having that appoint ment for twenty . years, and never saw the island. There was a Spaniard under the Deputy, who did the duty. Mr. Capper asked if there was any warrant for the imprisonment, and was an swered by the gaoler that he believed there was one. A month after he found Hoskins confined in a lower dungeon, where he was sitting on a wooden table, with his feet in the stocks, in which condition he had been- left with all the torture of excoriations and 'the accumulation of filth around him, in a vertical thine, for one fort , night. 'Mt% Capper persuaded Sir F. Robinson, the Governor of the Island, to see the prisoner next morning, and. the Governor was much shocked at the spectacle. There was no me-. dical attendant appointed to the gaol, and so Hoskins had no relief. The plea for this con duct - was, that the prisoner was insane. He was relieved from this state of confinement, but detained in custody. Mr. Capper moved in the Court of Chancery for a writ de lu natic.° inquirando, but did not succeed. Three weeks after Hoskins was forcibly shipped off for . England.. The second case was one of equal injustice, thmigh not like it in cru elty. Three seamen had charged the master of a vessel with assault, and having wounded them with a cutlass ; the case was heard, and the evi dence of the seamen set aside, while that of the master was all that was offered in opposition. — Here he regretted that he had to name the Chief Justice, whose lamented brother was once a distinguished ornament of the House. Mr. Elphinstone Piggot combined in his own person the incongruous offices of Chief Justice, Speaker of the House of Assembly, a committing Magis trate, and manager of three estates: The master was set at liberty on his own evidence illegally, and the seamen had to sleep 15 nights on the beach, until Mr. Capper succeeded in procuring them a passage home, which was denied them unless they consented to sign a paper accusing themselVes of mutiny. The best answer to the latter charge was, in the judgments of the English Magistrates, Langley, Richfield, and Kinnaird, of the Thames Police-office. A Warrant was applied for by the three seamen on the sth November last, the case was heard, the cutlass was produced, and the Magistrates determined that the contract had been broken by the Captain, and that absence from the .vessel to lodge a complaint agaidst him was, not - mutiny. He was compelled .to pay them 101. wages each, with coats, and 201. were afterwards recovered for anterior costs. There was a Mr.Robley on the island, who was so great as to be vulgarly called the King of it. He pre sided hi the Commission which acquitted the Captain, as was afterwards.confessed, because he was, as the consignee of the brig, which was laden' with sugars and rum, likely to lose the market if the master .were . detained. Mr: Rob ley said afterwards, that he did not care a d-- if the fellow were hanged when he came to Eng land; .provided he got safe home. Thus were the rights of the islanders rendered insecure, ad , their property also pro tanto. There were :si other cases which he could adduce.. He wont 1 only allude. to, the case of Duff, who was su , petted of having broken into the house of Collier, the Deputy Provost Marshal, and was sentiOff, after being imprisoned and hanolcuffed for - fonr,-, months as a felon, to a rock close .by; called,Sito Lucie—or, as it was termed, on account of its uses, the Pigeon Island. Having stated thus much, - he trusted that the House would allow a Committee, as they must see the dangerous situa tion in which- the inhabitants were placed, under a government of officers holding such discordant situations—the Chief Justice. having an interest separate from hiS functions to consult, and hav ing to receive his salary from the planters and managers of the Island. Such was the extent to which they carried their measures there, that all those who opposed the corrupt system of Govern ' ment were called, by way of contempt, emis saries of the. African Institution, and some, times Wilberforceites. Would to God - they kiiew • with how much wisdom,' how much benevolence, how much goodness and love of ' human nature, that name is, and ever must be associated !—(Loud cheers.)[The Noble Lord then read some extracts' from a statement of Sir William Young, a - gentleman who had been dis tinguished in that House for his opposition to the removal of the Slave Trade.]—lt was melan choly' to state,, that on the Sabbath-day, and at the very. hour of divine worship, that was the precise trivalent for their - market : and frequently for their tortures and-punishments. The Noble Lord concluded by moving, " That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into certain Abuses in the administration of Justice in the Island of Tobago." Mr. W. SMITH said, that in rising to second the motion of his Noble Friend, he should merely advert to those abuses which had been already proved to exist in the island, and from thence he should draw a few general inferences, upon which -he should ground his support. In the first place, he should feel much regret in mentioning the name of the Chief Jus tice Piggott, brother to Sir Arthur Piggott, one of his most early acquaintances, and a man front whom certainly no evil communication could have been received. He remembered whe❑ Mr. Hastings entered that House to answer to the articles of impeachment, he mentioned in his me morable speech, that the situations in which men were placed, and the circumstances by which they were surrounded, frequently tended to bias their judgments; and without meaning to cast any imputation on the individual in question, he must say, that having lived so many years in the Colonies, he was surrounded with tempta tions, which it was almost impossible to avoid. The first case in the paper on the table was that of a man of the name of Peter Singleton, and without at all referring to his statement, but confining himself simply to the defence made by Mr. Piggott himself, he should make a short statement of facts, upon which it would be for the House-to decide. Mr. Piggott stated in his defence, that. Peter Singletotn, was a black man, not a native of the island, and whether free or not he did not know. lie (Mr. Smith) thought that whether a black man or a white one, whether a native or not, whether a freeman or a slave, was a matter of little importance. The facts were these :—Peter Singleton hap pened to be walking towards the bay, where the Nelson lay, and being in an ill state of health, sat down to rest. While he was so doing, Mr. Sinclair, a Magistrate, came up, and, in a rough tone of voice, cried, "Move out of my way !" Singleton replied, that he might have addressed him in a more complaisant tone. Sinclair on his return, said, ‘ 1 Oh ! you are there still ; I don't know you." He then gave directions to the cooper to take him into custody, which he accordingly did, and. Singleton was put into the stocks. The charge then was this, 'Peter Singleton was taken into custody without having committed a crime, put in the stocks without any ceremony, and dis missed with just as little reason. The Chief Justice said, in justification of this conduct, that Peter' Singleton was not a native of the island, that he came from another country, and the Court was always disposed to look with suspicion upon persons under such circumstances. Now this was not the statement of a Counsel employed to make the most of his case, it was the state ment of the Chief Justice in defence of the Ma gistrate. The question then was, whether the administration of justice should not be intrusted into the hands of men over whose minds preju dices should have little weight, circumstances. none. They had heard a great deal of the ho nour of the Counsel and the character of the Assembly ; but when they considered that As sembly was not cc.mposed of G6S members, but 13 or 14, and at the most el or 22, it was hn possible they should not form a close compact society among themselves, so that hardly any man could receive justice. For his own part he should be most happy if something could be done this Session, but he feared the most the House could do would be to pledge itself to the inquiry. He hoped, however, the effort of hi-s Noble Friend would not evaporate without producing some effect ; it should have his most perfect concur- rence. Mr. Gourawas said, that in any observations he felt it his duty to make, he should abstain from' entering into the latter part of the Noble Lord's statement, although he could assure him it did not proceed either from the slightest disrespect to him„ or inattention to the subject. He always felt considerable difficulty in addressing himself to questions of this nature. One of the great evils to which the abuses that prevailed in the Colonies were principally attributed, was allow ing them an independent Legislature, claiming all the privileges and exercising all the author►ty the Parliament did here, and until the Parlia ment of this country should decide that this sys tem should be abolished the conduct of the Government should be viewed in relation to the system which has been established. With respect to admitting a slave as evidence against his mas ter, he could easily conceive the evils that might result from allowing an irritated slave the power of swearing against his master ; but on the other side, let them look to the consequences of a mas ter having the power to compel a nuMber of his adherents to swear to facts in order to vindicate his character ; for so closely were. they connected and linked to WM, that it would be too much 'to expect from an illiterate -slave that he would make resistance. Having said so much, he should now come to the immediate qeestion before the House,namely whether Parliament should go into the proposed inquiry. He always felt extreme pain and reluctance in opposing an inquiry that could in any degree serve the Colonies, and if he did it in this instance, it was from the dread that it would conclude, not in a Committee of inquiry but of condemnation. The object of the motion must be, either to inquire into the conduct of particular individuals or the entire system ; in either case it was most likely that House could not come to a just conclusion. If you inquire into the general 'system, you are not, from a few individual cases, to draw the inference that the whole system was improper ; and with respect to the particular case to which the Noble Lord had alluded, he must say that it was not for him to enter into a general vindication of the conduct tine Noble Lord had described. It was foreign to his nature to justify, that at which the feelings of mankind must revolt ; but he could not help com plaining, that, when the Noble Lord brought for= ward that case, he did not mention the statement under the consideration of the Secretary of State. lie was aware there were many circumstances which the House could not approve, but the ver.y parties who could speak to the facts of the case were those who could not attend. The Chief Justice (Mr. Piggott), whose name had been alluded to, was an individual for whom he had the greatest respect.• He was brother to Sir Arthur Piggott, the distinguished ornament of that House. Life him, he was . educated -to the pl ession of the' lar, and Issas' appointed to that Mt on. Pt Wad been said he held an estate out there ; but this was not the fact, he managed an estate for his brother, and this took him out of the exception of the Noble Lord. He felt great pleasure in stating that no man exerted himself more than he did to render the situation of the slaves comfort able, and procure their manumission. It was to him we were indebted for the late measure that passed that island respecting the manumission of slaves. That Bill bore all the marks of the amiability of his character; and if in any particular he had committed a fault, he hoped this state ment would prove that it - did not• proceed from habitual disposition, but from the common fail : - ings to which we were all subject.—(Hear, hear I)—linder all the circumstances, he hoped the Noble Lord would not press the measure this Session. Air. EntllAm said, that in justice to the Colo- nies every opportunitity should be afforded them to state their complaints and have them investi gated, and from the unfeigned respect be en tertained for the Noble Lord, he was sorry that his warmth had led him into a, general statement, which must in a great measure depend upon vague assertions, instead of confining himself / to particular examples. He must also protest against attaching any importance to the charges of an anonymous accuser. This, he thought, ' was objectionable in every point of view: If he were an honest man he would manfully come forward and make his charges, but he could never approve of the principle of" spar- sere voces in vulgus amblguas." He also com plained of the principle of attacking the whole system of Government in consequence of the improper conduct of some, of the Magistrates. Apply that, for instance., to Ire land. If the Magistrates of ,a part of Ireland had violated their duty, or were guilty of any improper conduct, was that a reason why we should fall foul of the whole people of Ireland? He compared the - situation of the British and French West India Islands, contending that the French planter had greatly the advantage over the British. With respect to the Sunday mar ket, it had been wished to abolish it, but the slaves themselves were adverse to it. With respect. to admitting the evidence of slaves in Courts of Justice, he contended that circum stances were not yet sufficiently , matured to render that expedient. if they were prema- ' turely admitted to give evidence, the conse quences would be rather injurious - than beneficial to them, as - they would be heard but not credited. As the charges were so general, he contended that the inquiry ought to extend to all the West India Islands. He concluded by moving, as an amendment, a Resolution, " That the House would, early next Session, appoint a Select Com mittee, to inquire into the Administration of Jus tice in the West India islands." . • Sir J. MAcxtxTosn contended that a case had been made out, calling for an inquiry into the state of the administration of justice in the island of Tobago. lie referred to the- cases stated by his Noble Friend, and argued that they showed the operation of a general system of injustice in that colony. Th object here was not to accuse any individuals, but to show the system on which the Government_ and the Judicature proceeded: If Parliament did not controul the Colonial Judicatures, they would be liable to become corrupt. Unenlightened Judges were generally unfriendly to Parliamentary in vestigations : but in this country particularly, the result of them was found to be eminently beneficial. He alluded to Mr. Capper's case, and expressed his conviction that the accusation of that individual was not, could not have been, well received in the West India Islands. That individual, it appeared, had made use of some in discreet expressions at the table of the prosecutor, where he had dined, and sat from one o'clock to half-past nine in the evening. Under such cumstances, it was almost the duty of the host to excuse any expressions which his guest might have made use of, particularly after that guest had made the most humble apology.. What would the House say to a man, who could go the next morning, refuse the apology that was of fered, and prosecute an individual for words uttered in such a situation.—(Hear, hear I)—The lion. and Learned Gentleman concluded. with wishing his Hon. Friend (Mr. Barham) to con fine his Resolution to the Island of Tobago ; and if that was done, he would vote for it. Mr. MAitnyari said, though it had been pro posed that the Committee called for should be one, not, of condemnation, but of inquiry, in this instance inquiry and condemnation had been seen to go hand in hand. Ile denied that it was correct to assume that the administration of justice could not be impartial in the small West India Islands. lie had lived in one of them ten years, and had three times had occasion to go into a Court of Justice. One of his accusations was brought against the President of the Island, another against one of the Judges, who was at the same time the largest landed proprietor in the Island. In both cases he had obtained• verdicts, which Could not have happened had the system been such as to preclude a humble individual from obtaining redress when aggrieved. The propo sition for a sort of ambulatory or sailing commis sion to administer justice in all the West India Islands,' he thought 'very objectionable. Many accidents might occur, and all the Judges and Barristers might be carried over to the Spanish Main when they were wanted in the Colonies, and the administration of justice in allour West In dia Islands might be completely at a stand. Ile should not object to a Commission being sent out to inquire into the al ninistrzz..tion oeTobago, but the appointment of a' Select Committee, either in this or the next Session of Parliament, would cer tainly meet with his opposition. Mr. WILBERFORCE thought, from the facts which had been stated, the presumption was,that acts- of gross impropriety had occurred ; And was of opinion that some inquiry ought to take place. This he thought due even to the individuals who were under consideration. The inquiry would, he thought, be better prosecuted in this countr , and he therefore hoped the amend ent of t N Hon. Gentleman, if limited to inqu - into . '.. defects of'-the Adnistratiouleg Mt: ioba ' ir11444 'belagreed to by the 'louse. Mr. BARHAM explained. ' ' Mr. J. P. GRANT said, if the present Amendment were negatived, he would move one, pledging the House to the ap., . , pomtment of a Committee to inquire into the state, of Tobago, early in the next Session of Parliament. After a few words from the SPEAKER allft.Mr. J; P. GRANT. Sir J. MACKINTOSH said, his Noble Friend would with draw hiernotion,-and his Hon. Friend (111r.13arfrAm) his amend ment, so that the house would then be perfectly at liberty to adopt the suggestion which he had ventured to throw out. Mr. BARHAM.withdrew his amendment., . Mr. GOULIII/RN said, that before the House went to a di vision upon this question, he wished to gi ve hi s reasons f or the intended vote he to give. The - SPEAKER. said, that the imendMent intended' to stand must be proposed. before the Hon. Member could speak upon • NUGENT expressed his willingneSs to give I s tphis Lord it. original motion, and to support the amendment for a Resolu tion of the House to go into a Committee upon the subject early in the next Session. The original motion was then Withdrawn," mid a Resolatiorz to the foregoing effect was moved by the Noble Lord. Mr. GOULBURN said, that he was not averse from in.: . ifuiry,into the state of the island ; to prove which, he was ready to support the appointment of a Commission -to be sent out to make that inquiry. He must, however, object to that House pledging itself to go into a Committee, which must drag the Go vernor and the whole Government of the island over to this country. . Lord.NUGENT said he objected to any inquiry that should be carried on within the limited sphere of the society of one of the small ',Vest India Islands. - , • The House then divided, when there appeared-- For the Resolution - - , .'• - -fig . . - Against it -- ', , _ • _ .. .. 105 . Majority GRANT TO THE DUKE OF CLARE)I►CE. - On re-entering the Gallery, we found the Marquess of LON DONDERRY on his legs. He stated, that he had a comn.u nication to make to the House on the part of his Royal High ness f A u rptrhile , r , 1 1 8 1 1 e oi wishedshould that b e . s the Duke of Clarence, sanctioned (as was understood) by beforeou House - . .... :Majesty. Resolution aj esty . But t t the ll hthiseof proceeded the lffth read by the Clerk. • , , The Clerk read the Resolution, the purpo r t o f w hi c h was . that it had been resolved by the Committee, that an additional allowance of 6081. a year should he granted oat of the Conso lidated Fund to his Royal Highness. the Duke of Clarence, ou . his marriage. The MarqueSs of LONDONDERRY • then said that it would be in the recollection of the House, that when it had thus made what it considered to he a suitable provision for his - Royal. HighneSs, he declined availing himself of it at that tinie upon grounds, which were certainly highly creditable to his feelings. His Royal Highness nuw found it desirable, and under existing circumstances it was not inconsistent with his fowler condtect , . ! to receive the provision. which Parliament in its liberality ha , granted. The Noble Marquis therefore stated his intention of 's imposing to carry into effect the grant which the Rouse had at that time made. He now gave notice that, the proceedinP having originated regularly in a Message from the Crown, lie should Move that the resolution which had beea read should be referred to a Committee of the whole House on Friday next. Mr. HUME begged to ask whether, this being a new Parlia ment, a specific Message from thecrown ought.not to have beer: sent down upon the subjeet ? He thought it ought also to be ascertained,' whether his late Majesty had not left property be hind. him, out of which his Royal Highness the Duke of Clar ence might be provided for, without saddling-the consolidated' Fund with a charge. which it was unable to hear ? The Marquess of LONDONDERRY observed, that ques tions of this nature would come more properly under the con sideration of the. House when the question was fairly befOrc *them. With respect to the other objection, namely, a specific • message from the Crown, it would he in the recollection of the, 'House, that the provision for the late' Princess of Wales hail been voted from £35,000 to £50,808 a year, without any such message. . . Mr. FORBES begged leave to inquire.of the Noble Marquess whether a provision was to be made for his Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland. He hoped if these subjects were again coming before the House, that there would be. no objection urged to that upon the ground of ellarsett4 , ' ..- —.`' - i The Marquess of LONIX)NDERRY rose amidst cries ° " Order." He would submit to the House whether it was o ' .. pedient to raise an argument of so vet y, delicate a nature °P °l3 an occasion.like the present. This was entirely a new meal,/ and wholly unconnected with any former transaction. Ile f hope that the Hon. Member would not persist in the kind ° remarks which had fallen from him.: , A Mr. FORBES was aware that this wi; a new measure. a.”.. 1 1 so might he a grant to the Duke of Cumberland. He could see the ?.stoble Marquess, that he should only vote for the a llowa7.,', to the Duke of-Clarence after a similar one to the Duke o f Ga-T,, berland had been made. He considered that that Royal 1 r ; 4 4, s had,not a Sufficient allowance is a bachelor; and as one or. Blood Royal he was as much entitled to provision as the res,t e i l Sir I. COFFIN said he must protest against any right vin t i .e f - entitled the Members of' the Royal Blood •to provision. - I '.'* i s were - entitled only to what the Parliament thought proPf? . a grant, and which he had no doubt would at all times be si n.ss o to their dignity, and correspondent to the affection which /. entertained toward the Royal Family. 41 it wasput sl i After a few words from Mr. N. CALvERT, carried, that the House should on Friday next resolve.it: o f into a Committee of the whole House, upon the Resolutlo n the 16th of 'April, 1818. SAMERICAN LOYALIST. • . 0 ;c Mr. WM.. COURTENAY rose, porsttant to nix not. roe, bring forward his motion on the subject of the Claims of f ' ea rican Loyalists. !The Honourable and GentleninT,? the tered at length into a detail of the suffering* and losses cn the Claimants, in consequence of their adherence to thecattse or,e,i, British Government during the American War. He conte :o.e, on every gpnind of sound policy and. of good faith, they csa entitled to the compensation which they sought for. ile.. ko g eluded by moving for a Select Committee to consider the In:eost compensation to American Loyalists, now remaining °• 11 pensated. A rii Sir SCROPE B. MORLAND seconded the motio fu li, : iitid,'thal - the'honottr of the Country was -involved in e •4 O tisfying the claims of these Individuals. The strongeSt l3 l 0 0 1; of the Government and the Country had been' given to , ,11 . Their case had • been improperly mixed up witit tha t ' O ll O British Merchants, but stood on very different and _ e P in: asked for the fulfilment of to 0 ', stronger grounds. They t. mists made to them, and their claim could not be put. h 1 ,15 out a breach offaith and die gn)ssest injustice. ev iati Mr. BARING said that it. the elairns of these in" l the'' et 0, were just, he hoped no Gentleman would scruple to all-e/c a' r, upon the ground of our present inability to pay,thetn..., A n osel f however, doubtful whether the demands . made were gn ,. ` ti o,4 justice. The Hon. Member remarked:upon the procee _ A the Commission of 1783, and said that it ended by to being dissatisfied, and at last a siiiii'O'firidney*lia - pu,'4l.s 0 . .,,, to our Commissioners to cover the, whole claims. .J . -,p 01u,, i , equally distributed, and he could not see but the Dr,,L . l o „ e in;, chants had as much right to - further compensation as t 1 ;-. 0 -011,,, victuals. If they had separate claims put in bx,tbep o ' by 'a ; sioners, those claims were considered to be provided ' dens' article in the Treaty of Peace. At any rate their ~..t should have been made forty years ago. A iion ": itic i the' t Mr. W. WY NN said, that from the-best cons ‘ , 11 ,,0at was able to give the case of those persons, he t i lu '. „ a claims wore founded in good policy and in justice: .. ..„, s ent P t i, . Mr. MONEY contended, that. the British Goyt i t 'i le s till, , , solemnly pledged itself to give ample protection to e the floil e T ri , can Loyalists; the persons whose claims were befor __, we ee after their sufferings, their hopes, and their devott7_,. i _ ii titled to the sympathy and consideration of 'lndian! ' t h e A stel-r io Mr. WILBERFORCE supported the motion °Ti s for ivn t .' he that a promise had been made, and that the persor an d by f•-• t relief was asked, were allowed both by Parliarnen '' _ . „. „ .4 , Americans themselves to be suffering Loyalists-ER sa id rt s P i ./ , The CHANCELLOR of the EXCID;Q i „ t h a t Hot hilt . justice, and liberality would never be refused _ d pl edge vs; sl , Every one who supported the claims of the Bill °f 11 o is he contended was not given in.the preamble .ise ,, , lt , was t , e s The Commanders of the army Made large 1 Wilonsideredin st-liep but then the success of the result was afways - fr o c red a d , Pre ciA siii° promises. Every subject of this country snow euts of tilos= - ,0 of' his property by that war, and if the a ro . , _ ...s they wouiqt,:d supported these claims were good foron I t r u jo w y g aiis ' s, - 7 no t . th c, l ; to the extent of freeing the American tte national calamine.; only, from any part of the burdeno of the Bill .of He contended , that the only promised such relief as thet . which had already 'oeen preamble Ciuntry might b 2 able :0 a. granted.., .. abets had -received compensation iii r, ., vary small amount. T None of tli.s Atnericar: ,- full, e . x , s2pt dain l J r. :::,,, were co: 1 :0' These who suffered , ,i, , i . e. ~,, a. ..„.,. t IA 4q I sated in very' synall tfrOportion to their loses : .. r , ;_li . E , , , ,t;Es2: ,t s , mpensecl Before. s'as a.ttr , '" now made had not been reco ,