The Sun. — London, England, 1839-04-17 00:00:00

N irrrl s rli Nr 4 - - • ,;" 'P '' e ,, r)y ;ha to e sure t . si .i. li. bj. ~s .icvri (1 , - I.la i 1") iii? stand s p l edged bi polity, 1,), km , ,ur, and all that t s ! bin di'r: Upon rpm. 1 . 3 iii; manner, lanner, he has seen hise IrPjurit y of his Cabinet, and eery member of Government in this House give their exulting support to that which lie ha; pronounced to be " he tare God the wildest and the maddest project ;hat i . f ve r entered i nto the cone piou of man." But, un like 41 G rey, Lord Melbourne is . still first Mi nister of the Crown. But, Sir, when thus challenged to a . M nparison let it not be one of details but of results. Let us contrast the position of this country, after four years Ad ministrati on of the preent Government, and its posi tion as it stood on the termination of the four years' Ad miniztration of Earl Grey. On the 24th of July, 1834, on retiring from office, Lord Grey thus summed up the proceedings of his Government : thatOn the first night I appeared here as Minister, I declared the three great and leadincr objects of my Administration sho uld be a Reform in Parliament, j eace, and economical Re f°l.m. No one in this House, or elsewhere, p will say that Re- Pin Parli ament is a pledge which I have not redeemed. os was the next principle of my Government—and how '4 it Maintai ne d? IVe have not only maintained tranquillity, bat we now leave the Government, having secured a greater Pr bability of the With of Eu rope b e i ng cont i nue d t h an w h en " tc l ak office. With respect to economical Reform, we !Ye taken off four million five hundred thousand pounds ',i to Places have been abolished, and the patronage of the Crown diminished to a degree, with regard to which 1 feel yT in d , in honesty and justice, to admit that my only doubt is, ne.ther we have riot done rather too much. With respect to theh internal state of the country we leave trade in a soand and ealthY cond ition —manufacturers generally employed—public credit improved —the revenue greatly increasing, and all inte • prrests in a better condition, with one single exception—the de ession o f agriculture, less affe c ti ng th e tenantry t h an t h e ;r lan dlord, through aeduction of rents. The political and ule s ' unions have disappeared, we asserted the powers of the ;r ules' as it stood for their suppression, and by administerin it W s ith ,a fi rm hand th e result has been complete success." g 183kw' Sir, was the condition of this vast empire when, in 4, E ar l Grey handed over its interests to the guardian- S ip of Lard M e lb ourne, and I ask any gentleman oppo tte wile had b een a co ll eague or supporter of that Noble ord....any Hon. Member who will justify the policy of the present A dmieistrrtion by an appeal to the example of their Predecessor., whether he thinks the prospect of peace is as bright and unclouded at the present moment as it was four years a go? Whether the patronage of the Crown has been increased or diminished by the multitudes of tempo rary Places, the recent creation of which has, at Last Made compensation for the more permanent offices with abolition Earl G. ey was disposed to regard ~"'t° a pprehension ? I would ask here whether the revenue bears the same gratifying aspect as compared I v ith the expenditure and whether public credit is equal'y a i r i al and respected now as it was four years ago ? Abase ,spublie all, I Would direct him to the comparative repose of the mind, the subsidence of agitation, and the disap rearas e of ' 0 Political conventions at the present moment, as coutrasted with the spring of 1834, and if, en all these Poi nts, his convictions are satisfactory, then, indeed, I Vote See no possible o b s t ac l e to hi s unit i ng th i s n i ght i n a Mere, o • f Co nfidence in her M a jesty' s Mi n i sters . B ut l oo ki ng . To e the broad principles which, in the words of the Noble Lord's i : esolution, have guided the Executive Go iv.erument of Ireland, and formed the basis of their pa eloeYt.--l°°lting to these alone, disincumbered of all mi. - details, it is impossible for me to bear my testi 111°TV either to their wisdom or their efficiency ; because I e i" Only reg ar d t h at policy as presenting in all its rami. bred ti ons the c ons i stent and unvarying evidence of being on b een one fatal and fundamental error. As it has n the act and the aim of Irish agitation to represent every social evil as a political grievance, so has it been the guiding principle of the Irish Government to apply a Political remedy to those maladies of the social system ware wh ich po!iti ca l a b uses have nescr caused and political nos !nistan never cure. Her Majesty's Ministers have been aken alike in the disorder and the remedy, and they have aggravated rather than relieved that which is a disease of the internal structure of society by their fruitless ap- Plieations of counter-irritation to the surface. Ir land hes her domestic wants—wants of which in her benighted mi sery (Wee she herself can form but a confused idea, either of the nature or the extent—she wants piece, she wants fo od, she wants education, and she wants employment ; and When she comes to you to complain of her destitution, you give her theories of ecclesiastical foundations, and doc trines of popular representation, and schemes of municipal government, and essays on the duties of property as contra_ distinguished from its rights. She prays for bread and You give her a stone—she asks for a fish and you offer her a serpent. The first and the most formidable disorder of Ireland is religious animosity and sectarian aversions_and hoer do you proceed to remedy this? Is it by creating any new and national object in which hostility might be forgot ten._an important and general interest, in which animosity t night be absorbed. N o , b ut b y espousing with a vigour Only equal to th e i r own a il t h e envenomed prejudices el the one party, by distorting their grievances and aggravat ing their complaints-_and then, by declaring " war against the Church," and the institutions of the other. Ireland wants education, and how do you proceed to sup- Ply it? By an establishment whose regulation renders it unacceptable to one class of the population, whilst they in culcate and confirm the exclusive prejudices of the other e-an establishment which, whatever it may have been ori ginally, does not, I venture to say, contain at this moment, o ne single functionary, commissioner, or officer, teacher or ocaatee, who is not either a member . of the favour e d re li g i on , a foll ower o f t h e dominant faction. Ireland wants food 'or her destitute inhabitants. But already the popular 13 , 4 gions which your policy has created and encouraged. '.'ave perverted the remedy which Parliament has applied, la t° a fresh engine of political mischief and domestic trif e. Again, Sir, Ireland wants internal quiet, and the strife. Again , of the law—Olear, hear)—for the protection of a r a Perty and life. Three-fourths of that country pre asp,c,t This moment, but in an aggravated intensity, the same thihabdts . of turbulent audacity which characterised the High that a century ago. When Dr. Johnston was told tai p wit h all these wants and disadvantages the moun , eer ° f all rebellion of 1745, his only reply was, Scotland had made rapid advances subsequent their a.,"that of all want -ants, the greatest and the most pressing still was th of l aw," and the same; Sir, may we say of Ireland— mid . ``That p urple land where law secures not life, " brtla Which the Noble Lord who has just left its Govern has earned far himself an unenviable and imperish ezheihni,(4°vietY by reversing the attributes of authority, and Il ut - :fi g Mercy blind instead of Justice.—( Cheers.) want ab"e all, Sir, and as the foundation of all—lreland p e c.4lPloyment for her portionless and overwhelming .Pu aeonlcer, hear.) It was well said by a dis l'onguisbed Irish Representative in this House, who is now irnore, Mr. North, that „ there is no State policy, no secretidleness e o' Government by which it is possible to reconcile eivi , with tr anquillity —and that all the arts of ,: gala eati on were nothing more than so many expe- ..I,4.thethoimsteakrye peace and industry productive of each other." of mankind there never was a more forcible ill_ustration of the imperishable truth of that axiom of governrnent, than the relative position of the two por setions, north and south, of the country we speak of. The uth, with every adv antage of nature unavailing, and with every resource unexplored, overrun with idleness and energies e and poverty and crime—the north, with all its in full vigour, its agriculture productive and its pretssans.employed, enjoying all the blessings of security, th is P e rity, and peace. Sir, I have been denounced in Ws ~ House by the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, 1:41 "1 traducer and calumniator of my country, because, former occasions, I have dared to speak the truth as t"1"Iso.. , it „, .g o vernment. Sir, I d eny t h e i mputation. I regard affection, and 1 spe a k w i t h pr id e, b ecause I can 3 , l ? ea k with truth, of that porti on o f I re l and which gve me Di nh, and w i t h which all who are near and dear to me a ni that country are connected. S o f ar f rom b eing the vilifier of my Country, I point w i t h h onest triumph to such testimonies as that which I hold in my hand, and which borne out as it is by the highest functionaries of the land, affords undisput 4ble evidence of the blessings that have flowed from indus try, morality, and peace throughout the north of Ireland ; whilst it presents a melancholy contrast to the misery, the "lee, and the anarchy, which have been the never-failing re sults of idleness and agitation i n t h e south. The document fr om which I beg to offer to the House a single extract, is the C harge of Baron Pelinefather to the grand jury of the county of Londonderry at the assizes which have just terminated : " Qentle men ," says hi s L or d s hi p , " I assure you it affords me m uchL satisfaction to be enabled to con gratu l ate you on the r aw.] state of your county, not only a s ex hibi te d i n the cal -4,"„NYIi, but f rom imoirics that I have made on th e su bj ect. fj a prds a pi c t ure o f tranqu ili ty an d soc i al order that must be ' gratifying to you, and redound s t o th e cre d i t o f the po_Pnlation at lar ge gentlemen , I feel pl easure i n b e i ng a bl e t o ti,d, that in the . northern counties of this province through Z ni ell we have passed, there has not only been no trial for homi i',(ll, but not even a charge of the crime has appeared in the cal -2,-"4„ v ,e• This is a picture on which Im , ybe pc rmitted to con indications of a re :ttilate yo u, 1 7 1 :,'. 1 t0 the laws will long continue to distinguish these counties." and I trust that such pleasing niu's descriptio n is, I will grant it, applied to a coffin - m.- I, Y whom political Polmeies may have fewer arras than for the more enlightened, but not more hap ii),"Y situated, philosophers and statesman of Munster and " f e west of Ireland. It is possible that amongst the f people ( 1 1 4 Whom Barer, Pennefather speaks, the science of govern_ ent . and theprinciplesof civil liberty may be less . clearly Corn-exchange, and itlhaaderstood, as they are certainly less frequently discussed, the , amongst a mongst the Precursors of the Corn-ex ß c But, notwith ,ii Patriots of Tipperary.—( Hear, hear.) C i t cli ng this, his Lordship's testimony does aff u d o; das domesticat i s - 1 ,, r f, a r Y evidence that the social happiness andwithout poi.a!leerrient of a community may be promo no ,x•Itloal e xcitement , and that there is 5 ti s l i se nee or connexion between public prosperity and p w._. been brisk specifics theiragitation. Whilst her Majesty's Government, a i n in, necessary o C l O i : th • anodyne recipes of ecclesiastical appropriation,have 'a their Reform, of Corporation outrages itli e ri tie vainly essaying to apply a remeddy to the ey ,sa and poverty, the turbulence an int tne South. lil ler , by her industry and . her . Cal elligeace, by good sense ' and her abstinence from politi ; npiri tirr irno i l '.has been quietly but successfully achieving u h an e . swe2,!vation to prosperity and wealth, affording an u oecalla:ble rebuke to the empyricism of those who, on every de. ran n, fly to political prescriptions for every . social t . the te a l 41 ent, and exhibiting an abundant illustration o of the aphorism of Goldsmith— " i llow small, of all that human hearts endure, Sir iT. d i e Past, which kings or laws can cause or cure 1" House --tnl3l:ase trespassed further on the indulgmee of the de, i' o " - -( Hear, hear)—than in moderation I was entitled to my deep personal concern in the question itself 041_1 de sad my best, as it is my only apology. I can see no th: partment of the policy of the Irish Government on te t ! ra tinda of which I can tender my confidence in answer all T e Call of her Majesty's Ministers; but in each and in d e ' can trace the never failing effects of mistaken theo hi 1 9 Of delusive views, and of false and dangerous princi e ea of goverment.—(Nluch cheering.) mMr. SMITH O'BRIEN complained that the Hon. N n e t mber fur Belfast inculpated the Government of Lord le o li s a abY, and accused his Administration as being a is t e k 'ore of justice, so far a- regarded the trial of offenders h4,7 ° f ace of the official * returns granted only the night h ad " Ye in that House. But the Honourable Member also I , 11( the inisfortut;e tOdiffer from the Right Hun. Baronet, ttafrs_e amendment he would support.. The Right Hun. d. cl a i me d both in his speeqLand in his amendment, is 'lle(' any censure, wh7eas tne whole tone of the 1 I P e eeia they had just heard went directly to cast a —see-, THP, SITN, LONDON. WEDNESDAY, APRIL 17. 1839. cinno.e. on the Government. The Honourable Ba ronet said he should not consider his amendment a vote of censure. Now he (Mr. O'Brien) should, and so would the country ; and the people of Ireland ought to be much obli,;ed to the Noble Lord, for calling upon the House to declare that the general spirit of the policy of the Administration, and of the Executive Government in Ireland, was satisfactory to them. It as as necessary to do so, in order to secure- future Governments from being intimidated by adverse maj,,rities in Cie House of Lords, or charees end insieuations in this house.—( Hear. ) lie (Mr. O'Bi ien) wished it to bedistinetly understood, that he confined himself only to the period siace 1835--that being the duration of the Marqu;s of Normanby's Government. The lion. Gentlemen th e n took a review of the adminis tration of Lord Normanby. He reminded the House that as they were already aware the number of convictions had increased in proportion to the offences, that Catholics had been raised to the bench, that many able assistant Bar risters of the same creed had been appointed, that many appointments of Catholics in the constabulary had been made, and that also a greater spirit of liberality, and in deed of equality, had been manifested in the offices and appointments in Municipal Corporations during the adnrii nistratioh of the Noble Lord. No complaint could be al leged against these appointments. There could be no charge made against the Noble Lord for not directly discounten ancing the Precursor Society and the General Association, no more than there could be against former administrations in respect to the Catholic s Jciation. He would asser _ _ that tie Marquis of Normanby had given as much assist ante to the collectors of tithe as any former Lord Lieu country would have teen much worse if that Act had to passed. He trusted, into whatsoever hands the Govern ment might fall, the principle of the Catholic Relief Bill would be carried out in Ireland. With i espect to the ad ministration of Lord Normanby, be thought it was unjlst to throw the whole catalogue of crimes which had been ad verted to upon the Government of that Noble Lord. What was the motion of the Noble Lord opposite? Why it called upon him and the other Members of that House to assent to a vote of confidence in the pre sent Covernment. He objected to give such a vote of confidence, because there was a great difference between it and passing a vote of censure--he objected to it because he thought it uncalled for, and he lamented the appeal and the spirit in which it had been made by the Noble Lord opposite to that House. He admitted, to a certain extent, that the vote of the other House of Parliament was a censure on the Government, but he thought the course they had adopted in answer to that vote was un called for, and intended only to patch up a tottering Ad ministration.—( Hear, hear.) It was said that the present was a serious crisis. Now they had heard so much of such things in late years that their existence was looked upon as of little or no value. In the present instance, if the Government fall it was by no act of the Members on that side of the House ; they had not sought the opportunity, but the Government had done it themselves.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Lascelles) had voted up to Easter with the Noble Lord, but in the present instance he felt himself compelled to pursue a different course, and support the Member amendment of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth. tenant.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord was also en. titled to the credit of having almost suppressed the bar barous custom of faction fighting in Ireland. It was a fact that fights of this desci iption used formerly to be looked upon by Hon. Gentlemen of the opposite party as mere scenes in which the boys were amusing themselves— ( Loud laughter)—or as proofs of the peace cf the country. The government of the Noble Lord could not fairly be tarnished on account of the murder of Lord Norbury, however painful that might be. It was a fact that many of those gentlemen who brought forward charges of crime against Leland lived in that country themselves, without danger, and traversed their neigh bourhoods without suffering the slightest injury in person or property. It would indeed he as just to infer tha England was in a state of geLeral atrocity, from a perusal of the Newgate Calendar, as to infer that Ireland was distracted by crimes, from the melancholy specimens they had heard of and the exaggerated charges that had ben made.—( Hear ) He would say, in justice to his countrymen, that when they were kindly treated there was not a more grateful or attached people on the face of the earth.—( Hear.) The Hen. Gentleman then referred to the unhappy system of letting land that prevailed in Ireland. The manner in which high rents were exacted, and ejectments enforced was particularly exasperating. Many wretche d people were annually expelled from their holdings, and then having no place to go to, and no means to subsist on, they lived for a while upon the charity of their neighbours, and erected huts by the ditch side, where they in many cases soon perished by fever or famine. He was sorry to learn that Lord Lorton had ejected a large number of tenants from one of his estates in Longford, because they would not (perhaps because they could not) give evidence respecting a murder that had occurred in their vicinity.--(The Hon. Member here read an extract from an Irish Paper, stating that Lord Lorton had expelled forty-five families from his estate, and exposed them to destitution.) The Noble Lord had called in the assistance of the military to effect this expulsion ; true he had, as he stated, given them compensation, but this only with a view to induce a belief that they had left by their own voluntary act. These were the circumstances of the case, and in the short space of a few hours two hundred and twenty per sons, among whom were cripples, the dumb, the blind, widows, and orphans, were cast upon the world without a house or a home. Among these there was not a single Protestant, but 462 Roman Catholics had been ejected from Lord Lorton's estate, on religious and poli tical grounds.—( Cries of " No, no," from the Opposition benches.) Mr. 0' CONN E L L—Dany the fact 1—( Cheers. ) Mr. S. O'BRIEN.—He would ask any any friend of Lord Lerton whether that was the case or net; and he would say that evidence tantamount to that had been given before " the Fictitious Votes Committee."—(Cheers.) And it had also been stated in a newspaper, by a gentleman who signed his name " Agricola," and gave his place of residence, and who was ready to come forward to substantiate these facts. Did not such a state of things demand attention ?" Emigration had been suggested as a remedy for these evils, but would it remedy them ? Furnishing the people with employment was ano ther remedy, but when it was proposed to establish Rail. roads in Ireland, they were told it was ,a Government job-- ( Hear, hear)--because the line went from the ccunties of Cork, Limerick, and Dublin, where the population En niskillen and i e n o po p s o e s r iAt t e, myranu to and distress, aythat. because it did not go to E n - It employment was ungenerous was i n Hon. necessaryto Gen tlemen their fordn g t p h em well-being,an employment. and then n Education o s m r w the scheme for a doubtlessf- remedy these evils, but that had been treated as a party question, and they refused to educate the people on the only terms on which they would be educated. —( Hear, hear.) They say they will not give them education ex ce pt makingthemconverts raise(Hear)—and they f o o n se t d he th t e er m ms of that education which would inpotlhiteicmalinp h social scale, a n d i mprove t h e i r condition.r i t vi e It was unwise to deny to Ir e l an d an equa l part i cipation leges. Th e p arty oppos i te had gone so far as to calum-. niate the Catholi c Cl ergy, b y representing them as s to crime; if it were not for the Catholic Clergy, crime would increase tenf o ld i n I re l an d. TheCatholieClerg y have leagued themselves as one man in opposition to the House of Lords—that was the offence they had committed. They had taken influence out of the hands of the gentry of Ireland, because that influence had been used in opposition to the interests of the country ; and they were denounced because they would not concur In the return of certain Members to that House. Was it politic to make enemies of 3,000 of the most influential individuals in Ireland ? In Scotland the clergy of the majority were recognised, in Ireland they were insulted. Their support of the present Government showed how easily they might he won by kindness. The time was now come to decide whether the people of Ireland would be admitted to a per. feet union, or whether there should be no union at all.— (" Hear, hear," from M. O'Connell.) And at this mo mentous crisis, when America, Russia, the Colonies, when 3,000,000 Chartists—(Cries of "Oh, oh," and laughter) —at all events, a very numerous body, regarded it with distrust, it was next to madness to exasperate a n m e H n e t pt . s people ee d grateful w h f o o r a t p h p e r v s e m d a o l e f s t th k e in d G n o e v s e s r . licy iu Ireland, however they might differ from them on other q uestions, to support them on this motion. Colonel PERC E VAL would leave it to the House to decide whether the exaggerations of the Hon. Member for Belfast had not been exceeded by those of the Hon. Gen tleman with regard to the three millions of Chartists, or a still greater one of the 500 tenants of Lord Lorton, ejected to squat in the bogs. This exaggeration might have been well spared after the benevolence shown to Lord Lorton by the Hon. Member for Roscommon. The Hon. and Learned Member for the University of Dublin, had, the other night, adduced facts, which completely answered the statements of the Hon. Gentleman with regard to that Noble Lord. Lord Lorton had brought a person from the county of Down to introduce the cultivation of flax. —( A laugh.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman oppo site applied a term to me, when I laughed yesterday, which I should be sorry to apply to him. Mr. LUKE WHITE—I only laughed at the mention of the cultivation of flax. Mr. BE LLE W contended that if the amendment of the Right Honourable Baronet were carried it would have the effect of restoring that ascendancy which had now happily pretty generally been abolished.—(Hear, hear.) The complaint that had been made of the promotion of Sir Michael O'Loghlen, Mr. Pigott and others, preyed in what spirit, notwithstanding the Emancipation Act had been passed, Gentlemen opposite would administer Irish affairs. —( Hear, hear.) There was no hope for Ireland, except through that species of good government which had for the last few years characterised the admi nistration of Irish affairs.—( Hear, hear.) If the amendment was successful, and the Right Hon. Baronet and his party took the reins of Government, the necessary consequence would be that not a single Roman Catholic would be admitted to office, and' it should be recollected that the Right Hon. Baronet, on the last occasion he took office, offered a high situation to a Noble Lord, who stated that there would be no peace in Ireland till the Catholic Clergy were destroyed.—( Hear, hear.) He would ask those who always supperted the present Govern ment in their administration of Irish affairs, whether they would now abandon them and involve both countries in open ruin ?—( Hear, hear.) To those who said they could not distinguish between a Whig and Tory Government, he would answer that the difference was as large as one-third of the empire; and as they valued the farther improvement of the Irish people, the interests of the public peace, and the eventual security of property in that country, he would implore them not to support the amendment of the Hon. Baronet.—( Hear. ) Lord PO WE RSC 0 URT could not give a silent vote on the present occasion, and he rejoiced that her Majesty's Ministers had thought fit to enter into a serious discussion of this important subject, which had hitherto, when brought before the House, been discussed in a manner un worthy of its paramount importance. The defence set up by the Irish Government of late years, when any flagrant case had been brought before the attention of either House was, that it must be attributed to want of judgment, or there was an expression of useless regrets. The effects of a want of judgment in the admi nistration of private affairs was only felt by the individuals themselves; but a want of judgment in the administration of the affairs of the country, was more than a mere misfor tune to the Ministers themselves, and became the bane and misery of the country.—(Hear.) He rejoiced that a Committee in another place had been appointed, because it involved not only the prosperity of Ireland but that of the whole empire, for it was only by such a course a subject of such importance could receive fair consideration. It had been attempted to be proved by the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Home Department that there were only 170 prisoners liberated, but by the returns made to the House, on the motion of the Hon. and Learned Member for Bandon, in 1838, it was proved that there were no less than 1,100 per sons let out of gaol by the late Lord Lieutenant.—( Hear, hear.) Far be it from him, now that that Noble Lord had retired from the splendour of his regal state to doubt that a man of humane and benevolent disposition might feel his bosom dilate with conscious pride, when he reflected that he had restored many thieves and housebreakers to their families—that he had afforded the murderer in many in. stances, an opportunity of repenting of his errors, and of commencing a new course of life; but when they heard that those very felons who had been rescued from the grasp of justice—that those convicted malefactors who were let loose on society had only made use of their liberty to commit new breaches of the peace, and that those per sons had only become the scourge of their neighbour hood, it did appear to him that the late Lord Lieu tenant had neglected to consider that what was due to mercy should not be taken from justice.—( Loud cheers.) That Noble Lord might call it humanity—he might say it was to be attributed to want of judgment—or he might use any other phrase that might strike pleasingly on the ear, but he begged to tell that Noble Lord, that every crime afterwards committed by those prisoners, rested on the man who corr. muted their punishment, and that his re sponsibility remained. So much for this prerogative of mercy, which had been so grossly abused by her Majesty's Ministers. It now remained for him to notice another assertion. Did they mean to attempt to prove that there were fewer out rages? No such thing. They came with a long state ment referring to the times when rebellion was rite, and asserted that matters were not worse than in former years. The worst and most astounding feature was, that in propor tion to the increase of crime was the chance of immunity— the meaning was that there were more murders but fewer murderers—that there were more outrages but fewer per sons brought to justice.—( Hear, hear.) He would not trouble the House farther than to express the pleasure which be felt in voting for the amendment. The O'CONNOR DON, who rose amidst loud calls for Mr. Shiel, said that he felt bound to vote against the motion of the Right Hon. Baronet, and for the motion of the Noble Lord the Home Secretary. The Committee appointed in the House of Lords to inquire into the state of crime and outrage which had tended to disturb the peace and tranquillity of that country, and to render life and pro perty insecure, involved the condemnation of the Irish Government, and when one branch of the Legislature pronounced its opinion, the Government had a right to appeal to the other House to ascertain whether it would concur in the condemnation, or pronounce an ac quittal. If the House of Lords pronounced a con demnation of the Government, this House had a right to pronounce an acquittal, if it should be made out.—(Cheers and counter cheers.) He agreed in the motion of the Noble Lord the Member for Stroud, because he thought the Government of Ireland had contributed to the peace and security of that country. How was this to be ascertained ?It was to be shown by the records of crime in that country, for it appeared that the number of offences had diminished, and he thought niuch weight ought to be attached to the charges of the Judges on the circuit on this subject. He admitted there were outrages in Ireland as well as in England, but the question was, whether they had increased or diminished, and, if they had increased, whether the conduct of the Government had tended to that increase, or, if they had diminished, whether the Government was not entitled to credit for the diminution of crime. The outrages were of two sorts chiefly. Faction fights and agrarian outrages. Now, with respect to faction fights, they had gradually diminished, and that diminution was COLONEL PE RCE VAL—I did not apply my oh- owing to the measures of the present Government. With nervation to the Hon. Gent., but to the Hon. and respect to agrarian outrages, wherever they arrived to any Learned Gentleman who sits by his side, and who yesterday formidable head, the Government took the most taxed me with brutality- because I laughed. The Gal- prompt means to put them down, and the Lord Lieute lent Colonel then proceeded with his statement. This nant had done all in his power for the suppression of these person from the county of Down was brutally murdered ; outrages. But the proper measure was to ascertain a re. two other murders of Protestants took place ; and then medy—and that remedy had been found in the system of Lord Lorton, in the exercise of the just rights of pro- the Poor-law, for which credit must be given to the pre pony, stated, that if another murder took place he should sent Government. The question now discussed was, eject the tenants. Murder was repeated, and he threw whether the system of Government was to be continued in down forty-five houses, having previously procured lodg- Ireland which had obtained the support of the great body ings for the inhabitants, and this was the conduct which of the people, or whether it was t o b e supplanted by a the lion. Gentleman chose to brand in terms which be system of Government against which the great body of the (Col. Perceval) would not designate. (Hear, hear.) people had protested in the strongest possible terms.— he Gallant Colonel went on to say that Lord Normanby He had no doubt that the House would give its cordial went into Dublin to assume the functions of vice royalty support to the system which had been pursued by the pre at the head of a party procession, attended by a cortege, sent Government.— (Hear.) among whi c h were b orne various flags and ensigns, of an Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said, that under any cir illegal character.—(Cries of "No such thing" from the cumstances, it appeared to him that the House of Lords Ministerial side.) The Gallant Colonel affirmed that h a d a full right to make inquiry, when it was asserted that he had taken out his note-book, and written down many causes existed for outrage which had never hithertc of the symbols.—( A cry of Read, read.") There been investigated. But if they wanted another reasons was among others, the emblem of the harp without the to justify the course pursued in another place, crown, and several other ensigns of the same kind as those it was supplied by the suggestion of the Chancellor of the used in 179 5 .—(" No, no," from the Ministerial side— Exchequer, who stated that if the returns were granted, " Order," an d H ear , h ear ," from the Opposition.) Yes, they were not to be depended on. The Right Hon. Gen- Lord Normanby went into Dublin, at the head of a party tlemen also said, let them not make this a party question, processio n , an d su rrounded by men, with few exceptions, but let them put their heeds together, in order to discover remarkable far their agitating propensities, and by the causes of those evils, and the means by which they some wh o h a d b e en liberated from gaol.—(Hear, hear.) were to be remedied.—( Hear, hear.) But the Goven from the Opposition.) The Gallant Colonel went on to ment caught at the proceedings which had taken place allude to the progress made through Ireland by Lord in the House of Lords, because they found a defec- Normanby, w h o , h e s a id, though he had been followed by tion amongst their own allies, and thought they crowds of th e p o p u l ace , had been attend e d b y f ew of the could offer no more palatable bait' than a collision with landed gent r y. Th e Gallant Colonel complained that he that House, and ( t H ha e t ar th , e b y ea cou ) ld n T o i t le choop a better ground had been strongly denounced by the Honourable than Member for Dublin at a public dinner in Sligo, and got a premature — verdict onr the evidence manifested be that the attack had been echoed in every one of the Ro • Government in the rot Lords stand showed w a e d that c ; v o t eee which n conduct e g s h ti t o o:f man Catholic chapels through the county. The priests ' t g h w e e had repeatedly used exciting language respecting him. tion. The House of Lords had recov v e e r r e y d all their weioht Such was the state of the county now, owing to the sys- and influence, and authority in the country TO y tem of agitation founded on slander, whi c h exi s ted, th at c h eers ) —which was owing to their great —(rtalents_ the gentlemen of the county would not allow him (Col. ( Laughter)—their practical knowledge in debate, above Perceval) to dine with them unless he stayed all night, for all, to their patriotism.—( Loud laughter and cheering. ) fear he should be assassinated on going home.—( Hear, It was very strang e if Hon. Gentlemen wou ld refuse to hear, from the Opposition.) The conspirators of Ireland inquire into the state of that country, and he trusted that had succseded in conquering the law, and the blame of the House would pause before, for a party and a selfish that was to be attached to the apathy of the Irish Exece- purpose—( Loud cries of " Oh, oh," and cheers)—they tive Government. The change that had taken place in would allow themselves to be placed in such a false posi the county of Sligo and in Ireland generally, for the worse, tion as to decide upon a question upon evidence which was attributable to the impolitic course pursued by the they had not yet seen, and which, by the evidence given Government, and such being the case, he felt bound to before another House, might turn out to be erroneous. withhold his support from them. Sir W. SOME RVIL LE, amidst much noise, said he Mr. LA SCEL LE S would support the amendment o trusted that as an Irishman he mif, - ,rlit be allowed a hearing the Right lion. Baronet the Member for Tamw or th. I n w hil e h e gave hi s sen ti ments on the motion then before the the present debate topics had been introduced relative to House. It seemed to hi n that they were called u p on to the general government of Ire l and, an d an attem p t had give a decided vote upon the motion—as for himself, and been made to show that the existence of the present state judging for himself, from his knowledge of the state of of things in Ireland was to be attributed to the Catholic Ireland, and considering the terms of the motion which had Emancipation Bill. i o n m e d e speeches kaccompanied than that t h that was a vote motion, h n e r , for censureone ,ecno the He could not agree to such a propo - been carried in the other House—looking, also, at the whichoth e r degree disappointed in the expectation sition. lie was far from saying that n he be wa b s ad no e t nt i e n rta s from the passing of that measure m ; but he should never Government. He came to that conclusi upon the ground, regret having given his sanction to the principles that if the Right H o n. Bart. opposite, (Si r R. P ee l) were involved in that great measure, the intention of which was in power to-morrow, be would he ashamed of himself if he to destroy a ll di st i nct i ons between Catholics and_ all Protes- could attribute to that Hon. Bart. all the out rage w hi c h tents, and open th e d oor of office to persons ofper- would be sure to exist in Ireland, knowing as h e did th e suasions.—( H ear, hear.) Had the Catholics acquired state of Ireland, and the origin of that crime. They must any pow er f rom t h e o oration of that Act ? Certai nl y not._ (H ear, h ear.) go back for many years in order to search for the cause of I was true that the Hon. Member that crime—even so far back as the beginning of the for D u bli n h a d a sent in that House, but he had t h e same reign of George 111. they would find that influence out of doors before the passing of the Act the I rish House of Commons bad a pp ointed a Committee, that he h a d eopl, now._( H ear, h m . , h ear . ) That g and then existing ; and that Committee had reported almost in re at which Committee had investigated the cause of the crime measure was c a ll e d f or b the e of Ireland he would ventu re to say tha y p t the st a t e of things in that i the same terms as that which had lately been sitting. It was to be remembered that there was a transition state going on in Ireland —smell farms are now going into large ones, and that was forced upon the landlord in consequence of the operation of the Poor-law. From his own experience, from what he learned in his own neigh bourhood he eculcl assure the House that the crimes in Ireland were frequently invented—at all events, if not invented they were most grossly exaggerated in the public prints. For instance, in his own neighbourhood it was stated by the public papers that large bodies of the peasantry were regularly drilled and exercised to the bear of arms. It was a serious charge, and an investiga tion was entered upon by the magistrates in the neighbourhood. The charge was found to be totally false, but still it was never contra dicted in the newspapers, and of course stood as authentic, so far as the newspaper reports went. In a case which had occurred at a late assizes, the Judge had stated to a jury that he was very glad they had found themselves justi e fled in finding a verdict of not guilty, because had they found otherwise he would have found it his duty to have allowed the law to take its course. In such a place he was astonished that such a state of things should exist. Life was held so cheap, th at i t looked lie a heathen country which had never been blessed with the light of Christianity. Did this take place in the county of Tipperary, or in the county of Longford? No; but such language as he had used fell from Mr. Justice Coleridge at the York Assizes for 1338. What a godsend such a charge wculd have been to the Orangemen of Ireland !—(Cheers.) Much misrepresentation had gone abroad with respect to the Mar quis of Normanby. He for one did not believe that the Noble Lord had been in the habit of going into the gaols and there liberating prisoners. He did go into gaols; he sent for the gaolers' books ; he inquired into the na ture of the crime of which the parties had been convicted. He then inquired of the gaoler as to the conduct of the party, and upon his return to Dublin the proper order was sent down for the relief of the party. He ( SirW. S.)-had ap plied to the Marquis of Normanby frequently for remission of sentences, but never had in one instance succeeded.— ( Cheers and laughter.) There was not the slightest ground for saying that the Noble Lord had been actuated by political or unfair motives—the Government of the No b!e Lord also had had many more difficulties to encounter than any previous Government. He bad not been treated with common fairness, nor with that respect due to the Queen's Representative.—( Hear, hear.) His every action had been misrepresented —no calumny was too gross to be promulgated against him.—( Loud cheers.) He ( Sir W. S.) had even heard it stated by reasonable and respectable men, that the Government were anxious to screen the murderer of Lord Nsrbury ; and he had even heard the magistrates state that it mattered not that the murderers of Mr. Cooper had been convicted, be cause they were sure of being reprieved. He believed that Ireland was more tranquil now than it was for years before ; be would go further than the reso lution before the House, and say that it had been more tranquil than it had been during the last 50 years. Crime had existed in Ireland—and did exist in Ireland—and would, until the people of that country were treated in an impartial manner; they must acknowledge the nationality of Ireland, and must legislate for Irishmen as if they were natives not aliens. They must first educate the people, and that in a manner which the people would accept, if not they must expect that ignorance would prevail with its concomitant crime. He should be unworthy of a scat in this House, if he did not can didly state his opinions. No pecuniary sacrifice would he too great on his part, to procure to the Church to which he belonged, if not the attachment, at least the respect of the people of Ireland. Before capital was intro duced into that country we must put an end to all politi cal and religious dissension. He had never approved of the measure for reducing the ten Bishops. On the contrary, he considered it " a heavy blow, and a great discouragement." to the Protestant Church in Ireland. As he' understood it, it was done with a view to conciliate the Roman Catholic population, but if he knew anything at all of them, they were not animated by any hostility to the Established Church, as such. The Roman Catholics did not care if they had 500Bishopa, provided the Protestants paid for their support.—( Hear.) He thanked the House for the pstience with which it had beard him. Nothing but his ardent desire to see peace and happiness conferred upon that country would induce him to take part in these dis. cussions or obtrude himself upon the attention of the House. Colonel CONNOLL Y would not trespass at any length upon the time of the House. He was astonished at the alarm which had been manifested by the Noble Lord (J. Russell) and his colleagues, at the proceedings of the other House, more especially as they had been challenged on a previops occasion to substantiate their charges against the Government of the Marquis of Normanby. He was astonished that any Government would have the effrontery to propose resolutions to that House laudatory of the policy pursued in Ireland, when they had the animadversions of Judges, the censure of numerous public meetings, and the declarations of Ma gistrates against them. It could only be accounted for by the fear they entertained of being shortly deprived of their places.—( Hear, hear.) Why, the Government of Ireland was nothing more than the sworn servant of agi tation. He fully concurred in the language of Lord Ox mantown, and he believed that it was fully borne out by the facts—it was the language of truth, of independence, and of fact.—(Hear, hear.) The statements made by the Noble Lord were a manifest proof of the ex• tent to which Government agitation, and the tyrannous system of intimidation was practised against the loyal population of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) When he saw the altered condition of the counties of Carlow, Longford, and Sligo, and the persecution which the independent electors were subjected to without the slightest notice being taken of it by the Government, he could not but feel that the loyal and Conservative people of that country were utterly de prived of all that protection and support to which they were entitled. He felt gratified when he recollected that lie be longed to a province in a great degree removed from the in fluence of the agitating Govatmureat.;,anii the rapacious set attached to it. That independentuprovince had been subjected to indignity and insult, but, it had still main tained a firm front against the enemies• of peace, and order, and good Government. He could not, therefore support the resolution of the Noble 'Lord, because ho , thought his policy was most dangerous to the prosperity of the empire. What was the proposition now before the House 7 why the Government came forward to propose a vote of confidence in their own measure', to call upon the House to assent to a resolution declaring that their adminis tration now was perfect, and that their Government had been attended with the most satisfactory results. Al. though the Irish Government had given up its right of challenging jurors, yet he, Colonel Conolly would not give up his right, and he would challenge the whole array.—( Loud cheers and laughter.) He did not wish to say anything harsh of the resent Government, but it appeared to him something like impannelling a jury out of the dock, and making the culprit foreman, when the Ad ministration came forward to decide upon its own acts.— ( Great laughter.) They had gone to the Bench, to the Bar, to the Church, and to the Radical party in Ireland, for a character, and in every instance they had been un successful ; and. for his part, he would never assent to a vote of confidence in any Administration which bad been guilty of such corrupt, profligate, and vile conduct a; that which had disgraced the Government of Ireland.— ( Cheers and laughter.) Mr. GRATTAN rose amidst great confusion at the bar. When it had in some degree subsided, he said it was exactly that day 55 years_(Laughter;—that a motion about Ireland was brought forward in the Irish House of Commons.—( Laughter.) The object of that motion was to lay before King George the Third and the people of England the grounds and the causes of the complaints and jealousies that then distracted Ireland. That motion passed, and it was on the same principles on which his Hon. Friends near him had governed Ireland during the last four years. It asserted that all classes were alike entitled to the equal protection of the law, and the equal enjoyment of liberty, and that they would not rest until those rights had been obtained. And further, that it was lonly King, Lords, and Commons that bad a right to make laws for Ireland. On the 16th of April, 1782, the motion passed. Ireland was then made free. Liberty was for the first time enjoyed, and the Catholics were admitted to then rose the privileges of the Constitution, an d distracting 'The e h e L an h t a r S been to a pitch of glory and prosperity,dsuucebeppi y I been sown un known. But the seeds of discord o e pp sa o m sit e e argu ments Catholics and PdroiscoteesrtdGattietans,ti ments now advanced and e ne Gentlemen h tsbucceedetdheinopdeersattroioyninogf the a dvanced fthe th , e o n o , otr a y n . d ee place 0 itution. Now, be asked Hon. PGreinoctilPemicesnoofpptohseiteCwohnetther they were prepared, after ex poriencing the consequences, to return to the period of misfortune and error 2 —( Hear, hear.) The Liberal party did not, as had been alleged, call fora c a ountnenrndvontmennaotwio.—n now— they only want to prevent the passing of —( Cheers.) A majority of the House of Lords had without inquiry passed a resolution of condemnati on of the Representatives of her Majesty and he . r . 3lajesty s Ministers in Ireland.—(No, no, from t heO which was re plied to by cheers from the Mi was a condemnation. The e resolution rn w s o te r r o t of the Right Hon. Baronet were also a condemnation— nay, they were much mo re, they were the grossest and most malicious libel—the mostlf the eagagmereantdemd enfatlsoefhotohde appeared on the records of the House of that could have Commons.—( Loud cheers. Tipperary or to h should not have eobjected, for York — and property were insecure i T . Right Hon. Baronet had confined itself to ' Longford—or to he admitted that life n ip perary, and in Longford, although that was his own native o g f re l a r t e ly . Hear, and laughter)t and beenthiraed country of county —( But he objected against the Noble ' Lord opposite (Powers court)Ktioinugs awbuiisieiaof by its di so rgan . ised in s a t d a e t t e t . ahgeai against allegation being Ire land. He thought that ee fa c c h e large resources. should not have indu.lge.de.ilnasstuscrh the country from which he derived such rl i i• t i t ilient, which was • Augustm Pa a t3 fter Lord Normanby's appoint- Now it was remarla able that the Fourth addressed to _contained this - in, satisfaction, to the 1836—a year and a half Y t lively passage:— " Te l nt re t f o er th y e o L u o , rdwiLtlieuttheen imnntoacs a t that to diminution a th perseveraiice in of c a r j ust im e The the tranquil state of Ireland,i in that country, and trus Government,lrish people." Right Hon. and impartial system of good disposition of the Bart. never contradicted that statement.._( c heers.) complained that Lord Normanby Would he now exclude that year and a half? The Hon. meant by that, that he di " Gentleman opposite did not dispense justice --they The heliad done party, justice to the whole lf people—not so, the Orange governed ? The party, and through them.o, they would never have complained.—( Cheers and laughter). real question was, bow was Inland to be Right lion. Bart. complaineethatLord J. Russell's • yet the Noble Lord declared his principles. He said, I have already governed it. motion was ob scure ; every thing, and fixed will govern Ireland, as we The contest had been represented as betwee n t h e L ords and Com mons , but there was a third party—th e m illi ons of the I r i s h p eo ple, who w ere entirely forg otten b y the Right lion. Baronet opposite, as they had been during all his p o li t i ca l life. There were 92,000 volunteers in Ireland now, in 1792 they were commanded by the Duke of Leinster ; the petition signed by the descendant of that Noble Duke now lay upon the table of the House. Should these volunteers fight with or against England? That was the question.—(Much Ilaughter fr o m th e o pposition.) It w as very we ll f or gentlemen to laugh, but to those who had to keep guard over the property of the absentee proprietors, for th it was no laughing matter.—( Hear, hear.) The Tories had always avowed every principle opposed to the interests of Ireland. The Whigs on the contrary, had supported the liberties of Ireland. The Tories had unfortunately had Ireland under their sway for a long series of years; they had made Ireland what she was now, and they were reaping the fruits of the evil seeds which they had sown.---( Hear, hear.) It was natu ral enough that Irishmen should feel a repugnance to the Government of such men as the Duke of Wellington and the Right Hon. Baronet Sir Robert Peel, who had over and over again, contradicted and stultified their own opinions with regard to Ireland. As for the Duke of Wellington, he had gained a fame—a glory--which he had never tarnished, and which he - (Mr. Grattan) trusted would never be stained by his descendants.—( Cheers.) But whenever the Noble Duke's name—connected with those of the Right Honourable Baronet Sir Robert Peel, and " the Renegadoes," as they were called in Ire land, Lord Stanley and Sir James Graham— whenever their names were mentioned in Ireland there was a universal hiss, as though the Devil had broke loose from Pandemonium.—(Roars of laughter.) The llo nourable Member proceeded to read a letter signed by the late Duke of Cumberland, expressing his willing. ness to accept the Grand Mastership of the Orange Institution, and his adherence to its principles. This was from a letter of the Duke of Cumberland in 1835—(Laughter, and cries of " Oh, oh," from the Oppo sition benches.) Hon. Gentlemen had better reserve their exclamations until they had heard him read the document which he held in his hand, and which contained resolu tions agreed to by the Orange Lodges within the last ten days. The first was a resolution of an Orange Lodge held in the county of Londonderry, the Rev. J. Brien in the Chair, which stated that they rejoiced at the new model ling and more perfect organization of their institution, which took place in Dublin on the 14th November last. The next resolution states that the appointment of Lord Fortescue, a decided enemy to the Church of Ireland, as Viceroy of that island, is a source of deep alarm, and they trust that her most Excellent Majesty, recollecting her Coronation oath—that was a virtual repeal of the Act of the Right Hon. Baronet—would cancel the appointment. Another resolution returned thanks to the Honourable Member opposite for his opposition to the Irish Mu nicipal Corporation Bill, and trusted it would be rejected by the House of Lords, the hereditary counsellors of the nation. Such were the supporters of the Right Hon. Baronet—they were in mutiny before they were enrolled—(cheers)—and this was the mutinous army that the Right Hon. Baronet was to lead against the united people of Ireland.—(Cheers.) The next resolu tion stated that 125,000 Orangemen were ready and armed. Against whom were these men to march ? against France ? against America ? against Russia ? No, but against their own countrymen, and against the Government of Lord Fortescue. There was always a farce attending every play.---( Loud laughter from the Opposition benches.) If the Orangemen could prove that they meant nothing but play, he should be perfectly satisfied. He would next draw the attention of the House to a piece of poetry, dedicated to Colonel Verner, in which the following lines occurred " Although the sentinels have sold the pass, And the defenders of our cause be few, The gates of perfidy are made of glass, Another diamond cuts its bright way through." This he thought was a most wicked cut to the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth.—(Cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Baronet laughed ; this put him in mind of what Pope —not that Pope whom the Hon. Gentleman opposite held in such horror—bad said of the Sir Robert of his time " Will he oblige me ? Let me only find , lie thinks me not what he thinks alt mankind ; He laughs, and you laugh too—no doubt The difference—we are in, and he is out." —(Cheers and laughter.) He had supported the Court of Lord Haddington, although Hon. Gentlemen opposite would not support the Court of Lord Normanby ; hzi did this, because he thought it his duty to uphold the Court for the benefit of those who had rejected both himself and the Hon. Baronet—he meant the citizens of Dublin. The number of soldiers in Ireland had been reduced because the Government relied for support on the people of Ireland who would support them, but would not support an Orange Government.—( Cheers.) He believed solemnly that those 125,000 Orangemen would march if they were wanted. He had in his pocket a list of an Orange jury, struck by an Orange Sheriff, to commit those who might be brought before them.—( Cries of" Name.") He would prove his case by the evidence of one of his political opponents, who said he was surprised that such a verdict should have been given, and he would prove that the attorney advised his client against submitting his cause to such men who would sit all night rather than give a verdict. —( Cries of " Name, name 1" and " No, no I") He would name the party if the House wished.—( Cries of "No I") He was a Protestant, and would support the Protestant re ligion at the hazard of his life; he admired it for the purity and simplicity of its principles, and for its high rectitude, but he would not be doomed to encounter the rancorous dislike of any portion of his countrymen for the purpose of building up a wall of exclusion against their. He had seen them kneel before the altar of that God whom they both acknowledged ; the greatest peace reigned among them in private, which would reign in public also if they were suffered to go on in harmony.—(Loud cheers.) He was ready to admit there had been errors on both sides, but they ought to shake hands, and forget every thing.-- ( Hear hear.) Let all parties come forward, and bury their foolish factions in one common grave.—( Hear, hear.) It was the duty of the Right Hon. Baronet to suppress sentiments that had not a tendency to reconcile all parties ; and if that reconciliation did not take place, be should begin to think the end of England bad - cOme, and that, in *the words of Spencer, ' Ireland was' - reserved to be the source of calamity and destruction to -reserv ed land. That that calamity might be:averted, was his most sincere wish. It was time to put an end to the quarrel that bad taken place, England and Ireland should go heart and hand together, and then instead of the troubles and turmoils that had hitherto surrounded that unhappy county, peaee, union, and prosperity would be esta. blished.—( Cheers.) Mr. LUCAS, as the House did not seem inclined to adjourn, felt called upon to say a few words. He regret ted the turn the debate had taken, and the reflections that had been cast on the landlords of Ireland, who were placed in this unfortunate position, that they were succeeding to a state of things over which they bad had no control. He denied that outrage had not increased. On the con trary, he said that outrage had increased in the county which he represented, the tranquillity of which was so much boasted of by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite. The Hon. Member concluded by stating that he would feel it his duty to give his most strenuous opposition to the motion of the Noble Lord. On the motion of Mr. BARRON, the debate was ad journed till to-morrow. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at a QUARTER to ONE o'Clock. CORONER'S INQUEST. TILE ALLEGED MURDER IN LISSON. GROVE.—Yester day morning an inquest was held at the Mitre Public bmse, New Church -street, before Mr. Wakley, the Co roner, to inquire touching the death of Robert Horne, aged 34, and Richard Macey Ross, aged 36, the former of whom is reported to have been waylaid and murdered by a num ber of omnibus men, at present unknown, and the latter to have died in consequence of the shock which the hoi rid event produced. The barbarous affair has occasioned an unusual degree of excitement in the neighbourhood. The inquest-room was therefore much crowded. The CORONER inquired of the beadle if there were any witnesses who saw the men ill-used ? The Beadle replied in the negative, observing that the most material witness would have been Mr. Ross, on whose body they were about to hold an inquest. From what he (the beadle) could learn, Mr. Ross, wh• was a cabinet maker and broker at 21 in the street in which they were assembled, on Tuesday last had occasion to distrain for rent on the goods of a man connected with the Paddington omnibusses, and put the deceased, Horne, in possession. The affair having been settled, the two deceased men and others went and had something to drink together, after which Herne was so ill used as to occasion his death on Sunday morning, and Mr. Ross took it so much to heart that he died on the following morning. Sergeant Harrison, 13 D, here stepped forward and stated that on Sunday after the death of Horne he had an interview with Mr. Ross, whom he found very ill at his house. After informing witness that he was sure he should never get over the shock which poor Horne's death had occasioned him, he proceeded to state what Horne had told him a short time before he expired, and which was to the effcet that about twelve o'clock on the night in question he was drinking with some omnibus ra:n at the Olive Branch public-house, in Earl -street, Lis son-grove, when the men who pretended to be his friends followed him out and exclaimed, " Here's the broker's man, pitch into him." They attacked and beat and kicked him in the most inhuman manner. He was afterwards brought home by a man in a glazed hat, who put him in the passage and there left him. ( During this recital the Jury appeared completely horior-stricken.) Mr. Myers, a surgeon who had examined the deceased, gave it as his opinion that death was caused by violence on the head; he had not, however made a post mortem examination. The inquest was adjourned till Friday next. Verdict on Ross " Natural Death." COLBtTRN'S NEW MONTHLY MAGAZINE, EDITED BY THEODORE HOOK, ESQ.—The public will be delighted to hear that a new Series of Papers by Mrs. Trollope are about to appear in CoThum% New Monthly Magazine, under the piquant title of " The Widow Married." They are intended, we understand, to present us with the sequel of the exquisite " Widow Bar n aby's" history and adventures, and will bl illustrated with etchings by Bus... What a delightful promise to those who have had the happiness of already making the charm ing widow's acquaintance, and what an additional reason for those who have not had the honour to seek an intro. duction forthwith in the pages of the New Monthly. KI NGSLAND-ROAD CHARTER ASSOCIATION. —A meeting) was held on Monday, at Mr. Dyson's, 146, Kingsland-road, for the purpose of forming a Charter Association, agreeably to the plan laid down by the Gene ral Convention, when a resolution to that effect was adopted, and the first weekly payments were made. Th e feeling in favour of the Convention was ardent and unani mous, the persons present pledging themselves to support by every means in their power the views and objects of that assembly. THE WEATHEit.—During the past week we have had a continuance of dry, cold, east winds. Vege tation is thereby almost wholly retarded, and we are likely to have another backward spring. It has been very truly remarked, that the crops of all kinds are more abundant when such is the case, than when the spring is precocious. The probability is, that, in the latter case, vegetation re ceives a check, whereby the crops sustain irreparable damage.—Kendal Mercury. CONSTABULARY FORCE FOR ENGLAND AND WALES. (SECOND NOTICE). In the rural districts the reports to the Commis sioners state, the houses for the accommodation of vagrants create and encourage crime to an enor mous extent. They found only few of the Magiste rial divisions that were not seriously afflicted by the existence of such receptacles. These places are the resort not only of the mendicant but of the common thief ; it is the " flash-house" of the rural district, the receiving-house for stolen goods, and the most extensively established school for juvenile de linquency in the district. The Magistrates of the Chelmsford division thus describe these places : There are several lodging-houses in the town of Chelms ford, where, in the course of the year, it is supposed up wards of 2,000 trampers or vagrants resort. The greater number of these persons shelter themselves from appre hension and punishment under the Vagrant Act, by pro fessing to be match-sellers. This is made a cloak for begging alms, and the pretext for going from house to house and pilfering as opportunity o ff ers . Th e lodging houses of Chelmsord are made the centre of a kind of circuit which these people make almost periodically. The system of lodging-houses for travellers, otherwise trampers, requires to be altogether revised; at present they are in the practice of lodging all the worst char acters unquestioned, and are subject to no other con troul than an occasional visit of inspection from parish officers accompanied by the constables, whose power of interference, if they have a legal right of entry, does not extend to some of the most ob jectionable points connected with those houses, as they can merely take into custody such persons as they find in commission of some offence. The state in which those houses are found on the occasion of such visit, proves how much they require interference. The houses are small, and yet as many as thirty travellers, or evon thirty-five, have been found in one house ; fifteen have been found sleeping in one room, three or four in a bed, men, women, and children promiscuously ; beds have been found occu pied in a cellar. But beside the migratory depredators who issue from the large towns, and are unconnected with any particular district, some districts are infested by gangs of resident depredators. These traverse the district with one-horse carts, under pretence of selling to the poor butchers' meat or coals, but who are in the prac tice of receiving information how to enter barns, and by corrupting the 'labourers often succeed in carrying off hogs, sheep, and corn to a considerable amount, which during the night they convey to the distance of many miles to receivers. In consequence of the in efficiency of the police, these depredators carry on these practices with comparative impunity, and, owing to the neglect of pursuit by constables, mur derers frequently escape. In 1835 a woman mur dered her husband in Welchpool, by administering doses of tartarised antimony, then left the place with her shopman and paramour. The Jury returned a verdict of " Wilful Murder." The friends of the de ceased refused to send any one in pursuit after the criminals, and it was not till after the Magistrates had entered into a subscription to defray the ex penses of the constable's journey that any pursuit at all was made. The parties, however, escaped, and have never been heard of since. In Wales such occurrences are not unfrequent, but they are not confined to Wales. In England several similar instances are given, and in some the rural districts and small towns, as in Ireland, the local con nections and associations of the people are so strong that it is often difficult to obtain through them an impartial administration of justice. Three years ago an instance of this sort occurred in De vonshire, when a Coroner's jury returned a verdict of " Accidental Death" in defiance of the clearest evidence, and Three cases of unpunished murder were presented to the notice of one of the Commissioners upon his fortuitous and comparatively narrow path of investigation during one fortnight in the counties of Lancaster and Cheshire. In one of these cases, the murderer escaped, it is sup posed, in consequence of the guilty neglect of the con stable, who was his relation. Two of the murders occurred in the the town of Bolton. In one of these cases a man was savagely assailed in the streets at night, and kicked to death, under circumstances which could scarcely bare oc curred without the apprehension of the criminals, had there been a proper watch. The other was a case of de liberate murder, in which the murderer escaped partly in consequence of the ignorance of the constable, and partly on account of the defects in the forms of legal procedure. Very recently two barbarous murders have been perpetrated in the open day in the vicinity of the same town. Many instances are given, too, to prove that country districts are in general unprotected by the proper civil force ; that the powerful enjoy theire rights by their own strength rather by an imme diate aid of the law, and that the less powerful, or those who have neither the means nor the irclina tion to incur litigation, or maintain contests, are often subjected to the most grievous oppressions. In some classes of cases, from the difficulty of get ting constables to serve process, many escapes take place, and in Manchester even the strongest aid of the police has been necessary for the enforcement of legal process, by which the collection of rents and the rights of property have been maintained. ^lf we change the names the following might be taken for a tithe process scene in Ireland ; Another illustration was presented to us from Seven Oaks, in the county of Kent, where upwards of 100 journeymen papermakers had determined that they would pay no poors'-rates for the tenements in which they re sided. This determination they gave effect to by beating off and deterring the peace-officers from the service of prc cess. Arrangements were m a d e b y w hi c h a s i gnal should be given, and th e whole of those workmen interested should be assembled on any appearance of the constables to levy any distress. The rioters were in the full enjoyment of impunity when the matter was brought under the special notice of the Magistrates, and it appeared to be a case for calling out the yeomanry, or for employing the military. Before either course was adopted, it was thought that the Metropolitan :Police should be applied for. One ser geant and four privates of the Metropolitan Police were sent to the spot, and by rapid action and concert, they at once succeded in apprehending ten of the rioters. They were compelled to take with them, by force, one of the lOcal constables, to identify the parties. He was so far para. lyzed by fear that he was about to run away, and the ser jeant of the police was compelled to threaten to kncck him down if he again attempted to desert his duty. Had there been no efficient civil force available, the only alternative would have been the employment of the military, when there might have occurred a scene of bloodshed similar to that displayed a short time before in the same county, in the conflict with the fanatic foPowers of the madman, Thom. Experienced officers have expressed to us a con fident opinion, that by an efficient Constabulatory Force, that outbreak might have been preveptel or suppressed without the bloodshed produced by tiro collision with the military. The suppression of highway robberies in the neighbourhood of the metropolis dates from the ap pointment of an armed horse patrol, and the Com missioners state that the roads in the suburbs are traversed at all hours of the night almost with the same security as in the day ; but foot-pad robberies—the robberies of single passengers committed with violence, are still so fre quent as to render travelling in the night in many country districts extremely insecure. Mr. Elliott, of the commercial firm of Baldwin and Elliott, gave in evidence that he had been a commercial traveller for twenty years, stated that it was the almost universal habit to avoid travelling in the country at night, or even after dark ; that for six or seven miles around London he had travelled at all hours, riding or walking, and never was in terfered with, but beyond that line he should not do it without he had a very strong motive, and that if he could travel the roads where there is no police with the same security he would be able to save perhaps five days in forty. Mr. Lindsay Cole, another commercial traveller, confirmed Mr. Elliott's evidence, and added that a great proportion of Yorkshire is as bare of pro tection as Salisbury Plain, and such is thetlanger that farmers in th e ne i g hb our h oo d o f L ee d s h a d to wait for each others' company to return home after market ; and Mr. Thomas Burt, a straw hat menu- Lcturer, who had travelled much on the Continent and in England for the last ten years, gave the fol lowing remarkable evidence : Of my own knowledge I may state that the districts in which I and other travellers feel the least comfortable in travelling are the neighbourhoods of the northern manu facturing towns, as the vicinity of Manchester, where some ferocious highway robberies have been committed. One gang was pursued and broken up. One of the robbers was, I believe, caught and transported. The neighbourhoods of Bury, Preston, and Rochdale, are felt to be very bad. A savage murder was recently com mitted on a foot traveller, in the vale of Todmorden, on the road to Rochdale. Another murder was committed for money, on a foot passenger, near Bolton. There are two roads, one over Blackstone Edge, the other through the vale of Todmorden, through neither of which, I ap prehend, would any traveller, under any ci rcumstances, except those of the most pressing emergency, venture after dark. The character of the lower classes in those neighbourhoods is barbarous to an unusual degree. The lower classes in the neighbourhoods of Dudley and Wed nesbury are almort as barbarous ; but I have not heard of the like instances of robberies and violence having been committed there. I can hive no hesitation in stating that on the Continent the security is much greater. It is within my own know ledge, much greater on the roads on the Continent ovar which I have travelled. The many German travellers with whom I am well acquainted, have stated to me that in Germany robberies are scarcely ever heard of, and Prussia is marked as a country free for the traveller. In some parts of Italy and in Spain, in general, the roads are stated to me , by commercial travellers, to be nearly im passable. In Tuscany, however, there is a good Govern- EVENING EDIT! ON ment, and there is a very perfect freedom for commercial havellin7 from the oppression awl terror of r o bb ers. England,' in respect to the state of the roads, follows next after Italy and Spain. After adverting to the unprotected state of goods on canals and roads, and the plunder of wrecked vessels and property, the Commissioners come to the conclusion that the great mass of crimes com mitted for the sake of property is ascribable to one common cause, namely, the temptations of the pro fit of a career of depredation as compared with the profits of honest and even well-paid industry, and these temptations appear to them to arise from the absence of appropriate and practicable arrangements by means of a constabulary, such as forms the main subject of the inquiry. It appears from the evidence of several governors of prisons, that the notion that any considerable proportion of the crimes againyt property are caused by blameless poverty or cle:,ti tution has very little foundation. The late Mr. Wontner reckoned it scarcely one-eighth. The Commissioners thus sum up their labours : " The principles embodied in our recommendations . . being based on extensive experience, we feel confident that, however they may for a time be impeded by ad verse interests, these interests, and the prejudices en gendered by them, will yield before the light of future experience, which will lead to the ultimate adoption of measures on the principles of those we propose. If one uniform and trained force be efficiently directed to the prevention or repression of crime, we cannot doubt of success. " We can find no solid grounds for the supposition often entertained that a large amount of crime is a ne cessary evil incidental to the present condition of so ciety, and, that the most ignorant and base of the com munity may defeat the exertions of a well-appointed agency instituted for the repression of their crimes. " The appointment of a proper force for the preven tion or repression of crimes has sometimes been viewed with apprehension, on the supposition that such a force might be used to impair the political liberty of the subject. If we were to admit that a diminution, instead of an increase, of the political liberty of the subject, w,:re the probable consequence of the establishment of an efficient constabulary force, we should nevertheless be prepared to show that the evils we have found in ex- iste - nce in some districts, and the abject subjection of the population to fears which may be termed a state of slavery, which the objectors would endure from a ground less fear of the loss of liberty, form a condition much worse in all respects than any condition that could be imposed by any Government that could exist in the present state of society in this country. We do not believe that in this country any Government could pos sibly exist which subjected the people to domiciliary attacks, and to have their houses broken open and plun dered, and their lives endangered at night, or which caused a large proportion of the population to abstain from travelling singly after dark, for fear of being put in danger of their lives, and stripped of their property by armed men—which allowed its agents to pillage or mal treat the unfortunate people wrecked on the coasts, or which generally inflicted such evils as are now inflicted by upwards of 40,000 thieves, robbers, or marauding hordes of various descriptions, against whom the honest in almost every part of the country have been driven to associate for self-defence. Neither do we see any motives which .could induce any government in these times, to impose political restraints so oppressive or so mischievous on any industrious community as we find imposed by illegal means on the manufacturing population of the city of Norwich, and other parts of the kingdom ; nor do we believe that by any form of the abuse of the powers of a government it could use any agency such as secret committees have employed in the manufacturing districts to coerce the honest and industrious, but - peaceable, to purposes injurious to them, by actual murder, or the fear of ►ife, or maiming, or the threats of such fire and pillage as were dis played in the burning of the city of Bristol. " The apprehensions expressed of danger to the li berty of the subject from the institution of a preventive police' are usually supported by reference to institutions having that name on the Continent ; but we believe it will be found that the notions prevalent as to the state and operations of such institutions are even more erro neous than those we have found prevalent on the state of the penal administration in this country. We believe it will be found that the police force in a neighbouring country, which has been referred to as a preventive po lice, is in no proper sense in sound theory, or in actual practice, preventive ; and that it has had none of the chief effects popularly attributed to it. Although organised for political purposes, to the neglect, as we believe, of the main purposes of a preventive police—the protection of private individuals in the enjoymentof their rights against infractions by depredators or others—it has not saved the various governments which have depended on it, if any have ; and in all large movements by the whole of the community, it has been disregarded or thrown aside as of no serious account. The trained force which we propose is of little more than one - Co; stable to 2,000 inhabitants—a force three or four times more numerous than that we propose were absurd as a means of constraining the whole community to any course which they felt to be inimical to them. What such a force might do with tie tacit consent of the com munity, and what we believe to be most. important for the liberty of the subject it should do, is to enforce the laws for the suppression of conspiracies, riots, or danger ous violence!, by which ignorant, or fanatical, or rapa cious minorities may seek their ends. Without the as sent or aid of the community, that is to say, without information from the peopl e , a po li ce or constabulary force cannot perform properly even i ts ordinary duties!' " The safe course for maintaining the freedom of the subject appears to us to be, not to render the authori , tics impotent, but to make them strictly responsible for the use of the power with which they may be invested for the public service. The securities respecting w hi c h the greatest anxiety should be manifested, are the secu rities that the power which the Legislature may confer for the general advantage shall be fully used. Tile great mass of evil indicated in our Report is ascribable not to the abuse, but to the neglect and disuse of beneficial powers. The chief and proper objections, as we con ceive, to the police forces abroad are, that they act on powers which are arbitrary ; the force which we pro pose could only act on powers which are legal, and for which they would be responsible to the courts of law, and ultimately to the Parliament. " What has been done partially in particular places may be done generally and more completely through out the country, by the more efficient application of the like means. If a constabulary force were well ap pointed and trained on a uniform system, and were placed under trained and responsible direction for the whole country, it would, we are assured, soon enable all your Majesty's subjects to sleep under a feeling of se curity from midnight plunder and violence ; it would give protection to the industrious classes in the enjoy ment of property, and by enhancing its value t create additional motives to industry and frug a lity ; it give freedom and security to travellers on the roads, and humane succour to natives, and hospitality to strangers thrown by shipwreck on our coasts : it would free the country from mendicancy and vagrancy, and the various evils that follow in their course ; it would free the in dustry of the manufacturing labourers, and increase the inducements to the investment of capital by protect ing them from lawless violence ; it would tend to secure the people from the alarms and dangers of riotous dis turbances of the peace, by affording a powerful means of repressing them without the risk of military execu tion and bloodshed, without putting hostile parties in array against each other, without engendering animo sities by arming neighbour to conflict with neighbour, and master with servants ; all this, and much more ' beneficent service it might be made to render at an immediate expense of less than one-fourth of the sum recently saved by one amendment in local administra tion ; or, as we feel confident, all these great objects may be accomplished with an ultimate saving of the whole expense from upwards of 2,000,0001. of money, now chiefly expended on what have been proved before Committees of both Houses of Parliament, and pro nounced by them to be ineffective or demoralising sys tems of punishment. ( " s All in e which ( la w . e s . n ) o CHAS humbly . certify v o y LE u Majesty. iT (L. S.) CHARLES ROWAN. " Whitehal4 l l . a S ce .) , March 27 , 18N39C.,,HADW A NOVEL WAREHOUSE.—In a street not a hundred miles from the Halifax Market Place, is a newly painted sign, on which, after the name of the shopkeeper, are the words " tailor and hat warehouse;" thus repre senting the occupier of the house as both a man and a warehouse !—Halifax Express. MAD-HOUSES.—It is painful to observe that, at most of the quarter sessions, increasing demands are made for licences for private lunatic asylums; while in the metropolitan county, and others where there are public ones, the size of the latter is not found to keep pace with the demands for admission. The more painful the subject, and the more the evil increases, the more does it demand the rigid investigation both of the moralist and the states man. To the latter, we apprehend, it has hitherto been almost a sealed book, or, at all events, one which has at tracted little or no observation. Yet there are, we believe, already in existence paid inspectors of such places, who might, we should think, be called upon to make an annual report, similar to that of the Vaccine Board ; and whose g d n d a res re s observations on the causes o f the increase of the fri ghtful disease in question, might be of infinite value and irr port ance.-111orning Herald. ADDRESS TO HER MAJ EST Y. -- h e Add ress to her Majesty, which has been in the cour se of si tu since the 4th instant, has been subscribed by 10 ,306 per sons, after deducting all fictitious subsc r iptionsandwas despatched on Thursday to Lord John Russell.--Scctsman. CRIME.---BREAD-TAx.—We's . care e ly ever take up a provincial paper whose columns-do not contain ac counts of sheep-stealing in their respective districts—a pretty convincing proof of the pressure of the times on the labourers, as well as conclusive evidence of the con nexion of crime with the odious bread-tax. The increase of crime, and the diminution of the loaf, seem to be in the nature of cause and effect. e vil, co of 'berg d to licyi Go the go the hick their Ra eau- iga I 1 the sup ding ocr- stye the rrae - Nhe ;ellls roint arm ;the neat the rred her gleb er, Ide be ot, jc TY 1?