The Sun. — London, England, 1839-07-05 00:00:00

EVENING EDIT ION• - brutal border war.—(Cheers.) Until that was done there never would be peace, and while it was allowed to continue. it was laying the elements of discord between the two countries. The question of a Union of the Canadas was a most difficult problem to solve, for in fact, there was no proposition made, they were in no better condition with respect to Canada than they were five years ago. This he was perfectly convinced of, that as they had abandoned all settlement of the question this year, the first thing they did next Session should be to come to a determination, to decide whether there should be a Union cr not, or which should be the principle on what those Colonies were to oe governed.—( Hear, hear.) it was in vain to talk of Bills' for a Union, unless the blouse was informed of the I terms and conditions on which that Union was to be effected, and unless they were fully acquainted with the feelings of the people in Upper and Lower Canada, and what probability there was of giving satisfaction to 03e Canadians. He would not express any opinion upon the principle of the Union, not wi=Ping then to provoke a discussion, but he trusted not a week would elapse on the re-assembling of Parliament before they de . termineal on what course should be adopted. did not intend to object to the second reading. There were some portions of the Bill he approved of, but he altogether sus p•nded his judgment on the clauses, and reserved to him self the entire power of taking whatever course he might think fit. Lord .IOIIN RUSSELL did not wish to enter more than necessary into the discussion of the Bill in its present stage, as the 'different clauses would be fully considered in Committee, and he should then be ready to discuss any clause which might be considered objectionable. The Hon. Member for Liskeard bad said that the Government were anxious to avoid any discussion on the subject. It might have been unwise to ask any expression of the opinion of the House with respect to the principle of the union either on the resolution or on the second reading of the Bill, but any course more like avoiding discussion could not be taken. The Hon. Member for Liskeard had also commented en the statement of the Committee of the As sembly of Upper Canada ; but when he ( Lord John Rus. sell) saw these comments, it only induced him the more to regret that the Government Lad not had an opportunity, before the meeting of Parliament, of reading the documents of Lord Durham, as they were sure to lead to comments on the other side. He would not now, as he had said before, enter into the general merits of the Bill, but would state generally his views of the necessity of a Bill of this kind. His opinion was decidedly in favour of the union. But before it took place it was wise and politic to take every possible means for the improvement of Lower Canada, to increase her resources and population, to en courage cutup, ise in the laying out of money on the ex tension of roads, &c. The Act of last year imposed such . . obstacles to acts of this kind, that t was necessary Parlia ment should take measure,: to remove these obstacles. He would postpone any further observations until the Bill was in Committee, Mr. E. ELLICE said that Lower Canada had been for the last two years in a state of distressing inactivity. Com mercial enterprise had been suspended, and emigrants could not find employment there or establish themselves there with the hope of obtaining employment on public corks. There were parties in 143%er Caiiada willing to er; , °r into speculations for the establishment of railroads betvvoen Upper and Lower Canada. There were other parties willing to enter into contracts with the Go vernment to continue the canals opened by the Legislature of Upper Canada, to connect that navigation with the ocean. Every one of these works were of the utmost importance, and they were more especially so where it was necessary to give employment to the mass of the population—where it was expedient to distract men's attention from the horrible scenes in which they had been en gaged. He wished the Right Hon. Baronet opposite would take into consideration the deplorable state to which the country was reduced, and in which it must continue if they ,iid not give legislative means of promoting works required for the improvement of the country. He was convinced that :tie settlement of this question could not long be de „ld we ought to convince the people of Canada that layed, we took a deep interest in their welfare, otherwise they would perhaps have no colonies to unite. He hoped early next Session there would be a general assent to a Bill of that nature. If it was made a party measure it would be merely a waste of time to deliberate upon it.—( Hear, hear.) If the measure was not sent out with the appear ance of a firm determination to settle the matter in dispute in that colony, it would not have the slightes t chance of suc cess. He thought the better plan would be to send the Bill next Session to a Select Committee up stairs, composed of Members of all parties, and then to pass it through a Com mittee of the whole House, when it would have a much better chalice of success and of obtaining what was so de sirable, the general assent of the House.—( Hear.) air C. GREY objected ,to the principle of giving the Governor and Council of Canada the power or raising taxes to be applied to the formation of canals, railways, and other public works through the province. It was a point which that House should very gravely and anxiously consider be fore it gave its assent to it. Canada had never yet been subjected to local taxation for such purposes, and the House should well consider what was the nature of the tenements and lands upon which the taxation would fall. They should also weigh well what would be the effect of enforcing by distress or otherwise the payment of these local taxes for the first time, upon the inhabitants of the districts in which these works were being carried on. He should certainly enter his protest against that principle. Mr. L A 1:30 UC HE RE assured the Hon. Member that it was after the most mature and anxious deliberation that the Government Sad decided upon giving to the Governor and Council the power of local taxation. After having had proof of the abeolute stagnation of industry arising from the want of means of communication in the colony, the Government had reso!ved upon remedying the defect in the manner proposed. 'rhey bad had had ample evi dence of the injury inflicted on the industry and commerce of the colony, and they felt that they would be wanting in their duty if they suffei e I it to remain in its present state. With respect to the charges which bad been brought against the Gallant Officer, to whom reference had been made, in the report of Lord Durham, he thought it would have been most unfair to that Gallant Officer if they had not made his defence public.—(Hear, hear.) He would never sanction any proceeding which would deprive that Gallant Officer of every means of defending himself.— ( Hear.) He would only make one observation upon the petition referred to by the Hon. Member for Westminster, and which reflected upon the conduct of Sir John Col- I borne and the British troops in Canada. The Government had no disposition to shrink from the discussion of that petition. It had been referred to Sir John Colborne, from whom art answer had just been received, and a more com plete and satisfactory defence, as well of ,himself as of the British troops, no person could desire.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He could not say that no evil would arise front not legislatjug for Canada during the present Ses sion. He regretted that circumstances had compelled the Government to abanolon that intention, and the Right Hon. Gentleman oppos'jte (Sir H. Peel) must take the responsibility upon his own shoulders. If Parliament had pronounced its opinion upon the details of the measure— namely, the principle of a union of the two provinces, the establishment of Municipal Corporations in the Colony upon an equitable arrangement—if the Bill had gone out to Canada, not only with the sanction of the Government, but with the higher sanction and authority of the House, it would have been a considerable step to the settlement of the affairs of these Provinces.—( Hear, hear.) The truth was, the people of that country were most anxious to come to a satisfactory settlement of the differences between themselves and the mother country. Since the Bill had been laid upon the table of the House, he had seen many persona connected with the Colony who had assured him that the Bill was generally approved of, and it was his (Mr. Lahouchere's) sanguine hope, that when the Bill was sent out to Canada that it would be received in the same spirit in which it was framed and from the basis of a satisfactory adjustment of the affairs of that province. Sir R. PEEL did not shrink from the responsibility of not having permitted the Bill to go to a second reading; but he begged to remind the Hon. Gentleman that since then the Noble Lord (J. Russell) had stated that from the despatches lately received from the Governor of Lower Canada, it would have been excedingly premature and un wise, and throw great difficulties in the way of the settle ment of the question, if any discussion of the measure had taken place. Mr. LA BO UCHERE explained. He understood his Noble Friend to say that it would have been inexpedient to cairy the Bill daring the present Session. After a few words from Mr. E. ELLICE and Sir CHAS. GREY in explanation, The Bill was read a second time and ordered to be com mitted on Thursday next. ORANGEISM IN CANADA. Mr. HUME begged to ask whether after the address to his late Majesty on the subject of Orange Lodges had been adopted by that House, any instructions had been sent out by the Government to Canada? He understood that Orangeism had been a source of great evil and annoyance there. Mr. LABOUCHERE said no instruction's had been sent out, and he was not aware that any complaints had been made of the existence of Orange`Lodges for the last two years. Mr. HUME said there was an address from the House of Assembly to the Governor, on the subject of Orange processiocks, on the 12th July. Mr. L A.llO UC HERE was understood to say that was two or three years ag o . Sir R. PEEL said her Majesty had sent a message to that House, recomnseuding to them the consideration of the affairs of Canada. Now, if they had proceeded to legislation on the subject, that would have been taking her Majesty's message into their particular consideration. It was perhaps worth cons.Wering riot whethe r t h ey should send an answer to the addrss.—( Hear, arid a la ug h.) Lord STANLEY asked whether it was intended that the Canada Bill should take precedence of all other busi ness on Thursday ? Mr. LABO UCH E RE was unable to answer the Noble Lord's question. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND). The House then, on the motion of Lord MORPETH, went into Committee on the Municipal Corporations (Ire_ land) Bill. Lord MORPETH proposed they should commence with clause 20, where they had left off on the former evening. Mr. SHAW said it was the general opinion among the Irish members that at that late period of the Session the Bill would not be proceeded with. He should, however, briefly state to the House his objections to clause 20, that now under consideration, which was the franchise clause, and in his opinion, the most important in the Bill. He should state to the Committee what was the qualification proposed by the Bill, and what was the nature of the quail 4#eation he proposed to substitute as an amendment. The ILualification proposed by the Bill was two-fold—first, that the ensuing three years the qualification shall be any went of the yearly value of ri/.—that there shall be six the' residence as an inhabitant householder, and a pay !milt of taxes within six months previous to the time of vot ,oing. That was the first franchise. The second franchise, ZieNch would come into operation in three years, was—the occui nancy of any tenement, no m a t ter w h at value, prov id e d it were rated to the relief of the poor, with a like stipula tion as regarded residence and payment of taxes. He (Mr. Shaw) proposed to substitute for these a 10/. franchise computed on the net yearly value of the tenement, with twelve months' occupancy and only three months' arrcar in the payment of taxes instead of six. Now, with respect to the last proposition in the Bill, he thought it extremely absurd to legislate for what was not to come into operation for three years, or until the year 1842, Would it not be quite time enough to make that proposition when they had had some experience of thatthe working of the Poor Law Bill ?—( Hear, hear.) To proposition he, for one would never give his consent. Then, with regard to the first species of qualification, omitting the questions of occupancy and the payment of taxes, es sebondary considerations, the real question be tween the Government and his side of the House was, whether it should be an eight or a ten pound qualification ? Last year the Government consented to a 101. franchise in the eleven boroughs contained in Schedule A. On the other hand, those upon his side of the House consented to the proposition although they were in favour of a 201. fran chise; but they not only conceded the principle of new corporations, but they adopted the proposition of the Go vernment upon the single condition that the franchise should be a bona fide one of 101. There were many who thought the Corporate Franchise should be higher than the Parliamentary one—but he had given his adhesion to the to/. qualification upon condition of its bona tides. lie wanted the same now, and therefore he pro posed to substitute a 10/. franchise composed of the annual value to which the premises in question shall be rated under the Poor-law and the amount of the landlord's repairs and insurance, in place of the S/. franchise pro posed by the clause. Lord MORPETH said the question of the franchise had been so often discussed that he would not think it necessary to detain the House upon it again at any length. The Government adhered to the 8/. franchise for the three years which must elapse before they could assimilate the franchise to that of England, and upon this ground, that as the nett value of the premises was taken in rating under the Poor-law, so that it was in fact much more simple and actually higher than the one proposed by the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman. Under the 9th Geo. IV., for Watching and Cleansing Towns, the fran chise was fixed at 5/. and there was not in any one town an inconvenient number of electors. In 1833, in Clom mail, with a population of 15,000, with 1,867 houses, there were only 683 registered at 10/., being not a third of the whole. If they were to restrict it more it would be against the spirit of the whole Bill and the intention of the Go vernment, who were most anxious to assimilate the fran chise in both countries (Cheers)—which would save much heart-burning on the part of the poorer country. He therefore hoped the House would not consent to adopt the restricted franchise proposed by the Right Hon. Gentlemen, but would adopt that franchise which had been found to work so beneficially in England.—(Hear, hear.) Sir R. FE RGUSSON observed that as the Bill then stood it would give a right to persons who did not contri bute to the Borough fund to vote for Corporate officers, which he did not think was fair. He should therefore vote for the amendment of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and if that amendment were carried, he would then propose an amendment for the purpose of returning to the 81. fran chise. The franchise proposed was not the English fran chise; but in England the poor-rate and the borough rate were levied on the same persons—in Ireland they were not, and many did not pay the borough rate at all. Lord MORPETH agreed that as the Bill stood per sons would have the right of voting who were not contri butors to the borough fund, which would not be just, and in that particular point he would adopt the amendment of the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman. Mr. WYSE opposed the amendment. Lord E LIOT could not give a silent vote on the pre sent occasion, because on this subject he differed with gen tlemen with whom he generally acted. A volume had been sent to him of speeches made by Members of the Protestant Association at a meeting held in Dublin, in the spring of the present year, and he certainly lamented the language that had been used on that occasion. He did not wish to dwell upon that subject, but there certainly ap peared to have been such a spirit manifested in the speeches of those gentlemen that was very likely to produce a corresponding feeling of hatred in the minds of the un educated peasantry of Ireland.---( Hear, hear.) He be- Hayed some of the speakers were Protestant clergymen, and they told the people that they had gained an ascend ancy, and were determined to keep it.—( Hear, bear.) They said that Roman Catholics were idolaters, worship pers of Belief, and followers of Antichrist, and they asked what right the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin (Mr. O'Connell), being an idolater, had to demand an equality with them, being Christians.—(Loud cheers, and laughter from the Ministerial benches.) Such language could not be too much deprecated ; and he confessed it appeared to him the keeping alive these subjects was detrimental to the interests of the country._( Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) Some of the speakers had said the time had come when they must sell their coats and buy a sword, go to the field with the Bible in their bands, and having Hallelujahs on their lips, like the Cove nanters, sally forth in defence of their religion.—( Laugh ter.) There gentlemen also cautioned the Conservatives in both Houses of Parliament as to the course they should pursue; and the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had introduced this amendment came in for his full share of blame. They menaced him with ejection from his seat, but he (Lord Eliot) hoped and trusted that those menaces would not be realised.—( Hear, and laughter. ) The deliberations of those individuals were not marked with that moderation and good sense which would become men in their station of life. They objected even to the principle of the Bill, and said that even if the franchise were restricted to 161. or 201. they considered it equally inadmissible.—( A laugh.) His opinion was, that nothing would be gained by the amendment of his Right Hon. Friend, and he believed he bad the authority of his Hon. Friend the Member for Somcrsetshire for saying that the usual deductions made by valuers in England, in the rating of houses, would bring it to the occupant of a 9/. house, so that the difference between the Noble Lord and the Right Honourable and Learned Gentleman was only 1/, The difference was so trifling that it was really ( hardly worth squabbling about.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He knew that bad men would pervert institutions to bad purposes ; but the possible abuse of their use was no argument against them.—(Hear, hear.) Another objection he bad to the amendment was its uncertainty— ( Hear, hear)—and after the best consideration be had given this subject, he could not come to the conclusion that it was his duty to support the amendment.—(Cheers.) Mr. Sergeant JACKSON had heard with considerable regret the speech just delivered by the Noble Lord.— ( Cheers from the Conservatives and laughter from the Reformers.) He had hoped the debate would have been conducted without any allusion to party matters, and it would have been better if the subject referred to by the Noble Lord had not been mentioned. The Noble Lord had said they were disputing about a mere trifle. If that was the case, her Majesty's Government could not do better than give it up at once.—( Laughter.) It was well known that a large number of gentlemen on his side of the House, were of opinion it would be far better for the future tranquillity of Ireland, that there should be no Corporations, for they felt the members of these Corpora tions would have no occupation but agitation.—(Hear, hear.) However, they had yielded that point; but the Right Hon. Baronet, the Me:nber for Tamwortin had distinctly stated that he would require a 10/. qualifica tion.—( Hear, hear.) He also understood that her Ma jesty's Government had expressed their willingness to accede to that.---( Hear, hear.) A great number on his side of the House, who had voted for the second reading of the Bill, had given offence to their constituencies, and had certainly risked their popularity.—(Laughter.) But they had been anxious to discharge their duty. He wished the Solicitor-General for Ireland, to explain what was the meaning of the 193 d section, the object of which he could not discover. Lord E L lOT explained that he considered the amount a mere trifle, but he did not consider it a trifle to give satisfaction to the people of Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. PIG OT said the object of the clause was to make residence co-extensive with rates. Sir R. PE E L said if he were to protract the debate, the result •f the division might probably be different. This was certainly an unfavourable period for the divi sion, but he would not protract the debate needlessly, as it might be the means of introducing topics of irritation which he was anxious to avoid, and therefore he would at once encounter the risk of a division which he foresaw must be an unfavourable one.---( Hear, hear.) His im pression had been that the Government did not intend to proceed with this Bill. At the commencement of the Session three subjects were announced in the Queen's speech as of immense importance—first, improvements in the Civil and Criminal Law ; secondly, Canada ; and thirdly, the Municipal Corporations of Ireland. The improvements in the law they had not heard of, and the Canada Bill had been abandoned ; and he had entertained the confident expectation that the Irish Municipal Corporation Bill would follow the fate of its brethren, and that Government did not intend to press the matter for consideration, until the other night, when it was announced that they intended to proceed with the Bill. The Noble Lord (Eliot) said the matter in dispute was a mere trifle. If he ( Sir R. Peel) believed that he was wrong, he would concede that trifle, but he was convinced that he was in the right.—( Hear, hear.) He had done everything to induce his friends to lend themselves to a settlement of the question, on the assurance that the franchise should be a bona fide one of 10/.—( Hear, hear.) He objected also to the House de termining what should be the franchise in 1842 on the same principle that he had objected to the resolution, pledging the House to certain proceedings with respect to Canada, in 1342.—( Hear,l hear.) He regretted that some of his friends were not now present who would have been in attendance at a later part of the night ; but feeling it his duty to adhere to the 10/. franchise, he could not consent to forego a division, whatever the result might be.—( Hear, hear.) The gallery was then cleared for a division, when tho numbers were _ _ Ayes lO4 54 Noes Majority for that Mr. PIGOT suggeste d might be inse r t e d in the clauses, ta ll st l Ministers... the soi conferring fee word rrs rin . Office"sO a qualification, in addition to the words " Counting-house, shop," &c. Sir R. PEEL said if the word " Office" were proper for Ireland it was equally so in England, where, however, it did not now exist.—( Hear.) Lord MORPETH said a doubt had arisen whether, under the word " Counting-houses,"_attorneys ' offices would be included. Mr. Sergeant JACKSON thought the introduction of the word would encourage fictitioui qualifications. Mr. O'CONNELL o b served the office must be rated to the poor—( Hear, hear)—and the word had been intro duced into other Acts. Mr. Sergeant JACKSON —But I objected to it always. Mr. O'CONNELL—Yes, and every thing else.-- ( Laughter.) Mr. Sergeant JACKSON—The Learned Gentleman should confine himself to the truth.—( Order, order.) The amendment was understood to be agreed to, and the clause was pa3qed. Clauses 21 and 22 were also agreed to. On clause 23, )VNi r~~ •ni _ A ; 4'i b' THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, JULY 5, 1839. Mr. SHAW (who had a notice to omit the 22d clause) rose to object to the dause, and the discussion had proceeded for some minutes, when Mr. O'CONNELL askedwhatclause they were on. The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Bernal) replied the 23d.—(A laugh, and " No, no," from Mr. Shaw.) It was eventually agreed that the Committee should re consider clause 22 (qualifying all rated inhabitants of boroughs after three years). Mr. Sergeant JACKSON objected to the clause, and would divide against it. After a few words from Mr. GOULBURN, Lord J. RUSSELL said that in the English Municipal Act the franchise was given to rated inhabitants who had been resident in the borough for three years, because per sons who had resided that period of time, and had been rated, were considered to belong to that respectable class which were fairly entitled to the franchise, and he appre hended that the same reasoning was equally applicable to Ireland. Sir E. KNATCLIBULL wished to know whether the right of voting was dependant on the rating or on the va luation. Mr. °TONNE LL—Manifestly on the rating, because the rates must all be paid up before the voter can exercise his franchise under the 22d clause. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said it depended clearly on the rating, and not on the valuation. After a few words from Sir E. KNATCHBULL and Mr. GIN:LW:RN, the Committee divided, when there appeared_ For the clause 96 Against it . 5O . _ Majority in favour of the clause The clause was then agreed to. Clauses 23 and 24 were then agreed to. Clause 23, after a few observations from Mr. Shaw, Mr. Smith O'Brien, and Mr. Darby, was postponed. Clauses 26 and 27, after a short conversation, were agreed to. Clause 29 was agreed to without any amendment. Clause 30 was struck out. On the 31st clause being put, Mr. SHAW objected to it, because it abrogated the present law with respect to the payment of arrears of taxes. Mr. PIGOT and Mr. O'CONNELL defended the clause. After a short conversation, the clause was agreed to. Clause 32 was postponed. On clause 33 being, proposed, Mr. SHAW considered the payment of the pipe water tax ought to be considered as necessary for the qualification —it was a municipal tax. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it might as well be contended that the Chelsea water rate or the New River rate was a municipal tax. The rate must be considered in the nature of a payment for goods sold and delivered. Mr. Sergeant JACKSON said the tax was compulsory, and parties would have to pay it whether they took the water or not. Mr. O'CONNELL observed that the pipe water rate in Cork was not a municipal tax, although it was imposed by Act of Parliament. After a few words from :Mr. GOULBURN and Lord Mok- FETH, the clause was ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 34 was postponed. Clauses 35 up to 42 were agreed to without observation. On clause 43 being read, Mr. BLARE proposed after the word " burgess" to introduce " or freemen." Lord MORP E TH had so often advocated the prin ciple of assimilatinn. ' the Municip a l I nst i tut i ons i n I re l an d to those in En g la n d, that he did not oppose the amendment. The clause, as amended, was then ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clauses 44 up to 69 were agreed to without any ob servation. On clause 70 being read, Sir R. FE RGUSSON objected to the Recorder being appointed assessor to the returning officer, and moved the omission of that portion of the clause. After a short discussion the amendment was agreed to, and the clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. On clause 70 being proposed, Mr. SHAW proposed that the Roman Catholic oath should not be dispensed with. Mr. S. O'BRIEN trusted that the House would not accede to the amendment. This oath had done more to bring oaths into discredit than any other thing that could be imagined. Mr. O'CONNELL said that in order to make this Bill work well there ought to be no distinction made between Catholics and Protestants. It should be entirely disembar rassed from sectarianism. If this proposition should be agreed to, it would be putting a firebrand into the cor porations. The policy of legislation was to have as few oaths as possible, and he wished this principle were further carried out.—( Hear, hear.) After a few words from Sir D. Roche, Lord Morpeth, Mr. Shiel, and Mr. Redington, the House divided, when the numbers were— Ayes Noes Majority against the amendment —4s For a considerable time the Committee was a scene of universal conversation and consultation, only now and then interrupted by Mr. Bernal's stentorian call f r " Order," or " Bar." At intervals, we also heard the words— " That clause pass. Opinion say, Aye —contrary, No— think ayes have it." And this was the whole of the information we were able to collect. Several Honourable Members appeared at length to consider this somewhat uninteresting, and began drowsily to cry for " Question" and " Division," which, we conclude, meant " Adjourn." Still did Mr. Bernal go on, repeating again and again the disjointed phrases—" Clause as amended— stand part—Bill ;" the monotony being frequently, how ever, broken by certain Members on the Opposition side suggesting " something" inaudible, to which certain other Members on the Ministerial benches replied another " something," equally unintelligible. The amount of our knowledge, therefore, might be stated at rather less than nothing : and, from the noisy buzz which prevailed in the House, we should say that to nine-tenths of the Members everything was quite as difficult of comprehension. Clauses up to 134 were agreed to. Clause 135 was postponed. Clauses up to 142 were then agreed to. Clause 143, after a short conversation, in which Mr. Shaw, Lord Morpeth, Sir R. Fergusson, and Mr. Wyse took part, was agreed to. Clause 144 was agreed to, as was clause 145, after a few words from Sir R. Fergusson, Mr. Pigot, and Mr. Callaghan. Clause 146 was agreed to, with a few verbal amend ments. Clauses from 157 up to 246 were then agreed to. Clause 247 was agreed to after some verbal amend ments. Clause 248 was postponed. Clauses 249 and 250 were agreed to. Mr. BROTHERTON moved that the Chairman do report progress and ask leave to sit again. Lord MORPETH considered it would be better to go through the schedules now, and consider the postponed clauses at another opportunity, and perhaps this would meet the views of the Hon. Gentleman. Mr. Sergeant JACK SON objected to proceeding with the Bill at this rapid rate; he was unable to follow the Chairman in the clauses which he had proposed, and he had not even read the marginal notes. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that the Bill had been before the House for these four years, and therefore the Learned Sergeant must have had opportunities sufficient to become acquainted with it. Mr. Sergeant JACKSON begged the Noble Lord's pardon—nothing, like the present Bill had ever been pro posed to the House before. The schedules and the - proposed clauses were then added to the Bill. Mr. SHAW proposed n clause to provide compensation for the Lord Mayor, President of the Court of Conscience, and junior Aldermen. It was erroneously supposed that the clause included compensation to himself.—Agreed to. The Host. MEMBER then proposed a clause providing for the charities of the Blue Cat Hospital School of Dublin. Colonel SIBTHORP would support the clause, as he wished to see those grammar schools encouraged. If her Majesty's Ministers had been at one of these schools, they would have probably got some of the floggings they had since so richly deserved.—Agreed to. The preamble was then agreed to, and the Report was ordered to be brought up on Monday. The Glass Daties Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday. The Indemnity Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the Order of the Day for going into Committee on the Bills of Exchange Bill (No. 2). Sir ROBERT INGLIS objected to the house going into a measure of so much importance at so late a period of the night. Mr. BROTHERTON protested against any further business being proceeded with, and would move the ad journment of the House.—( Hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had no wish to press the Bill, if the feeling of the House was against it. He had no concern with the Bill, but it was one of the greatest importance to the commercial world. Mr. CA YLE Y had some amendments to move, and hoped the House would give him an opportunity of moving them, if they now went into Committee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said his object was to give relief to the commercial world, which was rather embarrassed by the decision of the Bank of England, not to discount Bills under 54 per cent. Mr. M. PHILLIPS, as a representative of the manu facturing interest, supported the Bill. He could not see why a manufacturer who was unable to dispose of his goods from the depressed state of the market, should not be en .. titled to raise money at six or seven per cent. interest, by making a deposit of goods in order to save his principal. The Bill was, in his opinion, a most valuable one, and he felt it his duty to give it his cordial support.—( Hear.) Lord WORSL E Y trusted that Hon. Members, consi dering the late period of the Session and the importance of the Bill, would not object to its being forwarded a stage then. The House then went into Committee on the Bill. After a few observations from Sir R. INGLIS, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob served that the Bill would not come into operation until the interest of money was above five per cent. Until that occurred the Bill was of no more value than the paper on which itwas written. As the law at present stood a party could not obtain accommodation upon a simple con tract, but by making a deposit of goods to even a trifling extent he could readily obtain it under that Bill. Mr. CA YLEY thought the lower class of borrowers in the country ought to be protected. He would venture to say the operation of the present Bill would be to enable men to demand on the country a higher rate of interest than they had hitherto obtained. Captain GORDON did not know how the Bill could affect the farmers of the North of England, but he could easily imagine how it would operate in the West. He would suppose a farmer taking a large lot of sheep to one of the great country fairs, and, on his arrival, finding that they had fallen in price 43. or ss. each (which was fre. quently the case), would it not be a greater advantage to to be able to rais e the M o n e y u p on l oan than to sacri fice his rproperty ?—( Hear, bear.) He considered the Bill, so far as the agricultural interests were concerned, a great boon. Mr. F. BARING thought the provisions of the present Bill would enable farmers to be accommodated with loans in a much better manner than formerly. Mr. DARBY thought the Bill would do great mis chief, inasmuch as it would enable the farmer to carry on his farm without capital. Clauses 1 and 2 were agreed to. Mr. WARBURTON objected to the 3d clause, which limited the provisions of the Bill to two years. The clause was ultimately agreed to. The other clauses were agreed to, and the Bill was or dered to be reported. The House then resumed. The Joint Tenants Voting (Inland) Bill was read a third and passed. The Bankrupts Liability Bill went through Committee, and was ordered to be reported. The Borough Courts Bill (No. 2) was read a third time and passed. L rd MORPETH obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Ist and 2d of Wm. IV., chap. 51, entitled an Act to empower landed proprietors in Ireland to embank and remove obstructions in rivers. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave notice that to-morrow he should move that the House do resolveitself into a Committee of Ways and Means to con sider the resolutions of which he had given notice, relative to the reduction of postage. The House then adjourned at HALF -PAST Two o'clock. WESTMINSTER REFORM SOCIETY. MR. LEADER AND THE WANDSWORTH REFORM DINNER. A meeting of the members of the Westminster Re form Society was held last night at Stannard's Hotel, Charles-street, Covent-garden, in consequence of a letter which had been received from Mr. Leader, in reference to the recent Reform Dinner at Wandsworth. On the motion of Mr. PRour, Mr. MORRIS was called to the Chair. The minutes of the last meeting having been read and confirmed, Mr. WEST, the Honorary Secretary, said he wished to call the attention of the meeting to a report which appeared in the Morning Chronicle of the 22d of June, of the Wandsworth Reform Dinner, and in reference to which he had received a letter from Mr. Leader ; but he would first read the report of Mr. Hawe3' speech from that Paper. Mr. WEST having read that speech, and the com ments upon it, in the Morning Post of Ju ne 24, Mr. Paotir suggested that Mr. Hawes' letter to the Editor of the !horning Chronicle, denying what it was reported he had said of Mr. Leader, and the represen tation of East Surrey, should also be read. Mr. WEST accordingly read the letter of Mr. Hawes, which was inserted in the Morning Chronicle of the 24th of June ; and the following letter from Mr. Leader : " 79, Eaton-square, June '25, 1839. " My dear Sir,—ln the Morning Chronicle of last Saturday, there is a very incorrect report of a speech made by Mr. Hawes at a Wandsworth Reform Dinner. Ile is there reported to hate said, almost in so many words, that he hopes and trusts the Reformers of East Surrey will secure my services as their representative. Mr. Hawes said nothing of the sort—he has himself contradicted the report, in a letter to the Editor of the Morning Chronicle. If he had said anything, or even hinted at anything which would have borne such an in terpretation, I should, of course, have set him and my self right on the instant. As I find, however, that the improbability and manifest absurdity of my giving up the representation of Westminster, in order to contest that of East Surrey, have not prevented the report from being believed, or at any rate from being circu lated as if believed, in some quarters, I send you this letter, which I will thank you to lay before the West minster Reform Society, that it may, if they think it necessary, be communicated to the electors. It is, I have no doubt, the desire of some persons to de grade Westminster into a mere nomination borough, for the benefit of the Government ; but this scheme must fail, if the electors be but true to them selves. I need scarcely tell you that I shall not, and that I never had the remotest intention of resign ing the representation of Westminster for that or any other place, and consequently that I have not entered into any negociation for the purpose, as I believe cir cumstantially declared in some newspapers. Such con duct on my part would be treacherous and absurd— treacherous to those electors who at the last election placed me in the honourable position of their representa tive, by a majority of nearly twelve hundred ; and most absurd to leave a body of electors who honoured me with such a majority to engage in a desperate contest for a county where two Terms were returned at the last election by a large majority. So far from entertaining a thought of retiring from Westminster, it is my determi nation to offer myself for a renewal of the confidence of the independent electors of Westminster, and to con test the honour of representing them against any can didates who may be set up against me ; and so long as the electors of Westminster prefer an independent re presentative, who will maintain in the House the princi ples which he professed on the hustings, to a mere par tisan who will sacrifice his principle.: to serve a party, be it Whig or Tory, I have no fear of being dismissed from the honourable position in which they Lave placed me. " Believe me. yours truly, (Signed) "J. TEMPLE LEADER. " Mr. West, Hon. Sec., Westminster Reform Society." The CHAIRMAN inquired if any gentleman wished to submit a motion after what had been read. Mr. PROUT said he would take the liberty of making a few observations, as he perc e i ve d t h e rumour had nos' entirely ceased, reference having been made to it in the Spectator of Sunday last, and Mr. Prout read the para graph. He had heard it from many quarters that the rumour was floating in the minds of some of the elec tors, and although they thought it just possible it might be true—it was so absurd they did not b elieve it. He was, therefore, of opinion that the meeting should ag ree to communicate Mr. Leader's lett er to the electors, and that the sense of the Society sh ou ld b e taken of the' an swer to be sent, which he should propose to be pub lished with it. It was necessary that the Reformers of Westminster should stand clear before the world, and that the moment the intentio n o f General Evans , or Mr. Leader to retire from the representati on was made known, that the fact should be immediately promul gated by the Society to the electors.—( Hear, hear.) Ile could not avoid drawing the attention of the meet ing to the date of the report, which was the •>2(l of June, and as the dinner took place on the 19th, and as Mr. Hawes had not said what was reported of him, it was certainly a mystery to him (Mr. Prout) how the statement could have got into the report of the speech. If Mr. Hawes had said one word on the subject, he would have been i mme di ately contra dicted by Mr. Leader. His speech was an adm i ra bl e one, and showed the exact situation of the representa tion under the Whig Government. The Post then commented upon this speech, and all these things were so operating against Mr. Leader, that he, as well as the meeting, were bound to notice it.—(Hear, hear.) The report had been continued up to last Sunday, and they were bound to condradict it. He had been a very at tentive observer of what had been passin g i n th a t city for the last six or seven years, and he could painly perceive that the Whigs were not easy while Westmin ster held the Radical position it did ; they did not feel quite easy that they could carry on their Whigs,rery without destroying the Radical representation of West minster.—(Hear, and a laugh.) They wished it to believed Westminster was as well satisfied with Whig fsery as one of their rotten boroughs. He was not, therefore, surprised at the attempt to injure Mr. Leader, which was in accordance with ‘Vhig trickery and Whig treachery ; but he was glad it had been mode at this time, when every one would have an op portunity of registering before the 21st of this month, and so prevent any attempt at interfering with th e Ra dical representation of Westminster. There were sufficient Radicals in that city to beat both Whigs and Tories, and he was not alarmed for the result of any contest ; the Tories stood no chance ; the only fear was from the trickery and treachery of the —(Hear , ear, hear.) H e believed if the Whigs were so indiscreet as to offer any one in oppo sition to the present representatives, or any one who was not a th oroug h R e f o rmer, they would rue it, and find that the electors o f Westminster were capable , of sendin g p roper representat i ves to Parliament. thirty years they had done so. Sir Francis Burdett in former times was one • so was Sir J. Hobhouse. Gene ral Evans had been ' of much service in the cause of reform before he went abroad, and with him and Mr. Leader they had no reason to be dissatisfied. It was, therefore, with the highest satisfaction that he contem plated any contest that might take place, for sure he was that the Radicals would be s uccessful.—(Cheers.) In conclusion, he would move that the letter be entered on the minutes, he printed and circulated with the re port, and that a reply be sent to Mr. Leader. Mr. TROTT seconded the motion. Mr. WEST said he felt that an answer would be required, and he had drawn one up for the considera tion of the meeting. Mr, West read the letter as fol lows : " Stannard's Hotel, July 3, 1839. " To John Temple Leade r Esq. M.P. " Sir—We, th e W estm i nster Reform Society, have to acknowledge the receipt of your communication, through Mr. West, the Hon. Secretary. " We are much gratified that you have noticed the slanderous reports that have gone abroad, as doubt less the Society would otherwise have felt it their duty to have requested of you an explanation, and feeling that such reports were likely (as no question they were ntended) to have an injurious effect on the minds of the ielectors, we therefore deem it proper to publish your letter and our reply, as an antidote to the intended mischief. We never for a moment entertained the thought that any consideration would induce you to quit the representation of Westminster • but the extraordinary document published in the Morning Cln•onicle of the 22d ult., purporting to be a speech of Mr. Hawes, containing the observations respecting you, in connec- Zion with the county of Surrey, and to which observa tions you by that report are made to offer no contra diction, naturally induced many of your friends, not aware of the intrigues certain parties (4 ill descend to for this petty purpose, to give some credit to the report. But we, Sir, are aware, and doubtless you have seen, that the parties we allude to have a very powerful in ducement to destroy the Radical representation of this City, and we view it but as one added to the many at e mpts already made for that purpose, and we think it highly proper that the electors of Westminster, and the country generally, should know that there is not in her Majesty's dominions a body of electors for which the Whig Government have so decided a hatred. "This city for many years, with its renowned Sir Fran cis Burdett, and its ultra-Radical, Sir Cam Hobhouse, as its representatives, proclaimed throughout the king dom the principles of a full, fair, free, and equal repre sentation of the people, the voting by ballot, and the shortening of the duration of Parliaments ; and now is it, because when it has been made manifest that the Reform Act has not accomplished full, fair, free, and equal representation, the Whigs say we shall not pro gress to that point, that they deny us the Ballot and shorter Parliaments ; and that because one faction has supplanted another faction, and that Sir Francis Bur dett and Sir J. C. Hobhouse have joined the aristocratic parties, and are now conspicuous ornaments respectively of the Whig and Tory benches, that therefore Radicals should apostatize and abandon the great and glorious principles which are calculated to produce amelioration to the millions of the middle and working classes, and save this country from anarchy or despotism. " We say, Sir, it is because the electors of Westmin ster arc still the strenuous advocates for carrying out the great measures which they have so long advocated, and thereby opposing duplicity and rapacity, whether emanating from Whigs or Tories, that a faction desire to entirely Whigize the city ; and they know that until this be done their machinations against a real repre sentation of the people never can succeed. All this, Sir, we know, and clearly understand their enmity to you, and desire to separate you from us by introducing some Whig into the representation. " We again assure you, Sir, that we have never enter tained the thought that by any possibility it could be your intention to quit the representation of a City the people of which are so much attached to the principles which you have, with so much talent and honesty, within and out of Parliament advocated throughout your public career." Mr. aus thought the reply was not sufficiently ex pressive as to what was desired in respect of the exten sionof the suffrage. Mr. HETHERINGTON moved as an amendment that, after the word " ballot," the words " universal suffrage" be introduced. The words of the letter were vague ; the words "a full representation" a Radical would understand to mean Universal Suffrage, and he would expect it. They must all recollect that when Mr. Brougham was called upon to stand for Westminster, he was obliged, before be went upon the hustings, to agree to Universal Suffrage. The speech which he made on that occasion was sent to him (Mr. Brougham), and he corrected the proofs. That speech was still in existence, to show Mr. Brougham's advocacy of Universal Suffrage. He (Mr. Hetherington) thought that all persons of legal age, sound mind, and untainted by crime, should have the franchise. After some observations from Mr. Prout, Mr. Stokes, Mr. Ellis, Mr. Trott, and others, the amendment found no seconder. The terms of the letter were then agreed to, as also that it should be signed by the Chairman on behalf of the meeting, and forwarded to Mr. Leader. THE REGISTRATION. Mr. WEST reported that he had caused bills to be printed and extensively circulated, of which the follow ing is a copy : " WESTMINSTER ELECTION. " Voters entitled, under the Reform Act, will lose their votes for the next year, unless they pay on or be fore the 20th day of July all the poor's•rates and window tax, if any payable from them, in respect of their premises previously to the 6th of April. The payment of no other rate or tax is required for the exercise of their franchise. " Scot and lot voters will be disfranchised unless they pay on or before the 31st of July all the poor's rates payable from them previously to that day. They need not, for the purpose of registration, pry the window tax, or any other rate or tax, than the poor's-rate. " County voters must send in their claims on or before the 20th July." The above notice is issued by the Committee of the Westminster Reform Society, and any further informa tion on the subject may be obtained from the Honour able Secretary, W. West, 420, Strand. Mr. WEST added that these bills had been freely distributed in those parts of Westminster, where the electors were likely to be ignorant of the provisions of the Reform Act, and many shopkeepers had placed them in their windows. Mr. TROTT said, as it had been decided that lodgers were not entitled to vote for boroughs, he would recom mend those who paid 501. a-year, or upwards, to put in a claim for the county. Mr. STOKES questioned whether this would do any good. Mr. TROTT said, if 5,000 lodgers voted for the county, the 501. clause would soon be altered, and that would do great good.—(Hear.) The other business having been disposed of, a vote of thanks was passed to the Chairman, and the meeting seperated. REMEDY FOR THE BALLOT. TO THE EDITOR OF ZHE SUN. DIEPPE, JUNE 27, 1839. SlR—Permit me to state that the almost hopeless Ballot business might safely be dispensed with alto gether, provided a law to the following effect were passed as soon as possible :—1 st. That every briber and bribee, with all their agents and accomplices, shall be, on conviction, declared guilty of felony . agamst the tion, and punished by the immediate forfeiture of both their electoral and representative rights for ten or so many years, more or less, according to the enormity of their respective offences in the opinion of a competent Jury, carefully chosen to try the same, and composed of Tories, Whigs, and Radicals in equal numbers, whose Foreman should be, at least, a well-known liberal, honest, private character, to whichever of the foregoing classes he may happen to belong, so far as th e se l ect i on may depend on a majority of a Court so constituted. To secure detection, as in the case of unknown murder, &c., whoever among the suspected and accused criminals shall first impeach his associates, to conviction, he or they shall escape from the projected penalty, nay, an adequate reward, composed of a competent fine from the delinquents, pro re nate, might be decreed by the Jury in terrorein to all futu re t ra i tors to t h e i r fellow citizens, and as a recompence to informers against every Lzberticide of this description, whatever his rank &c, may be. R eg i c id es, parr icide's, homicides, with the longlist of oth er B id es, f a ll s h ort i n enormity in my estima tion of the base murderers and traitors of popular freedom, wh o d eserve d eat h without benefit of clergy, if capital punishments did not on all occasions produce more evil than g oo d on t h e j ury, j udges, execut i oner, victim, spectators, and the people at large, in a variety of ways too tedious to en umerate i n t hi s l etter. W ere the Act projected :to pass, certain innate sinners might pretend to scorn a seat in the House of Commons on the conditions stated above, nay some ten-pound noblesse would probably cock their noses up at the very idea of the pending ordeal, and decline voting as a matter of course, lest corruption, like the devil, who is the great legal scapegoat, may, in an evil hour, tempt them to betray their native country into the hands of a greedy, corn-law-grinding aristocracy from selfish motives entirely, either dictated by avarice, cowardly fear, or future prospects of gain by patronage or other wise. To representative candidates and voters for them, let me whisper in their ears that congenial pru dence should dictate the great danger of having offen sive weapons of any species about their persons, because Satan, the grand deceiver, can then try his persuasive wiles to instigate them to commit suicide, or send by one bold stroke a human being to his long home from the sudden impulse of revenge, rejected love, or that in vincible sacra fames auri . that has deluged the world with more blood than the mortal bane of a dominant religion, which like the boasted Protestant Church of England, sets reason, morality, and even the purest principles of the Christian faith in time and eternity at utter defiance. J. B. G. The Thames Tunnel is expected to be opened for foot passengers in about fifteen months. BIBLE PRINTING MONOPOLY.—SeIdom have we been so disappointed, and at the same time filled with so much indignation, by the turn given to any public measure, as by the late announcements of the Lords Rus sell and Melbourne, in their several places, respecting the intentions of Government with regard to the Bible printing monopoly in Scotland. We had fancied that matter was settled, and settled on a liberal ground. We had fancied it was one, at least, in the proceedings of the Whig Government, which might be set down to their credit. We confess we could rejoice at this moment to see the backs of the whole party, coupled with the assur ance that we shall never again see their faces. What a vacillating crew they are I How odious and how con temptible they will become if they are allowed to remain much longer in place lf Government adhere to their purpose, and actually appoint a Board, such as bad 4 been proposed, we think we could suggest a plan by which the labours of that Board might be considerably alleviated. Liberty has been given to import Bibles from Ingland. Let the Dissenters of Scotland resolve that they will supply themselves from that quarter. Although by no means an unexceptionable quarter, inasmuch as the monopoly exists in England also, it will yet, all things considered, be by far the less exceptionable of the two ; and if the Dissenters of Scotland, who are, without all doubt, the principal part of the population by whom the Bible is loved and purchased ; if they shall bind them selves, as they may easily do, that they will use neither Bible nor Psalm-hook printed to the north of the Tweed, they will soon make the Bible Printing Board nearly as idle as any Board in existence, and that is a strong word. —Voluntary Church Megazine. NATIONAL CONVENTION. BIRMINGHAM, THURSDAY. ORGANIRATION OF THE 'PEOPLE. This morning the Delegates met at Eleven o'clock. Dr. FLETCHER in the chair. Dr. M'Doeme. rose, and said that after a very length ened and successful agitation the time had arrived for forming an effective organization of the people.—( Hear, hear.) The Radical Associations of every town and vil lage with which he was acquainted were anxious for a plan of that nature. If the people were organized they would get rid of the present cumbrous system.— ( Hear, hear.) If they were divided into tens and hundreds the leaders of the tens and hundreds would quickly ascertain the opinions of those under them, and thus the Government would be pre vented marking any man for destruction. If the country adopts the measures which the Convention has in contem plation it would also under it be impossible for the masters to point out any man during the sacred month, or in the event of a struggle being forced, upon them. —( Hear, hear.) An organization, if things proceeded to extremities, would serve both themselves (the Delegates) and the country, without exposing the country to any danger. Of what benefit would the soldiers be if they were not divided into troops and companies, with officers attached to them ? if the Charti. to adopted the same principle as they had, for the masses there was no doubt how the struggle would end. A perfect organization would protect the desultory masses from ferocious leaders, whose objects were treachery or self-aggrandizement.—( Hear, hear.) He had seen five thousand men of his distiict march in re gular order, and he was del.ghted to see the perfect orga nization of those men. Something like a system of free masonry should be introduced, by which their power would be felt without betraying whence that power emanwerf not that there would be any thing like secrecy in his (Dr. Al'Douall's) pian.—( Hear, h ear. ) This would strike terror into the heart of the Government.—( Hear, hear, beer.) They were now boldly before the public and they should hold themselves in as effective a manner as possible, so that the Convention and the country might be banded together to meet any danger that might present itself. —( Hear, hear.) In conclusion he moved the following resolution—" That the Convention resolve itself into a committee to decide on the best plan of organisation in England, Scotland, and Wales, under one system, having for its object a more perfect co-operation amongst the peo ple to carry into effect the ulterior measures of the Con vention, as well as to strengthen themselves by a great na tional union, which may create a power under which the Charter must become the law of the land."—( Hear.) Dr. TAYLOR seconded the motion. Mr. BURNS was too well acquainted with the good effects of discipline to oppose the motion. Hence he had held as a terror over the rich, that if they Peterloo'd the people, they would in turn Moscow the country.—(Hear, hear.) They had scarcely any liberty of either thought or action. With Bonaparte he agreed, that the power of the peo ple existed in the morale, or the discipline, not the brute force of the masses.—( Hear, hear.) He anxiously looked for some plan to effect a successful organization. Mr. SKEVINGTON recommended the appointment of a Select Committee for devising so desirable a plan. In his district, they were already organised in companies of ten. The plan they adopted was this, they commenced with the first house in the street, as soon as a company of ten was formed they again commenced forming a new division.— ( Hear, bear.) Dr. MACDONALD, in reply to a question of Mr. James Taylor, said that the leader of the tens would be elected by the tens, and the leaders of the hundreds by the hun dreds. • Mr. LOVETT said that such an attempt was in the teeth of an Act of Parliament. Those tens or hundreds could not appoint presidents, officers, or treasurers; there could be only one general Society, of which all the Chartists might be members, and which should be governed by one set of officers. Any other plan was perfectly illegal.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. COLLINS said, that the Birmingham Political Union attempted such an organization in 1832, but found they could not carry it out. It would be completely an infringement of an Act of Parliament. He did not say so because he would hesitate breaking through any Acts of Parliament if public liberty could be benefited by so doing ; quite the contrary, he was prepared to infringe them, if public good could be effected thereby.--( Hear, hear.) Let them first test the obedience of the people on abstaining from exciseable articles, before they recom mended any other plan. —( Hear, hear.) Mr. RICHARDSON was astonished that such a motion had been introduced, which betrayed weakness on the part of the Convention. and a readiness to sacrifice liberty, at a mo ment when the country expected Universal Suffrage— ( Hear, hear.) What has become of the late ebullitions if they were not now organised ? It was a complete suc cumbing to the measures of Mcss:s. Fielden and Attwood, who refused to have anything to do with them (the Char tists) unless they continued a peaceable agitation. This recommendation was rejected with disdain by the Dele gates, who resolved (if compelled) to carry their measures vi et artnis.—( Hear, hear.) They should remember the organisation of 1812, when the divisions of tens and hundreds fell defenceless before the power of the law. Dr. TAYLOR said that the willing obedience rendered by the men of Birmingham to the Delegates was a strong proof that they were fitted for organization. But for the influ ence the leaders had over the people on the day of the ar rests there were 100 000 men ready prepared to set Bir mingham in flames.—(Hear.) There were six towns in the North already organised. He was aware that even 100,000 men gathered together promiscuously could not oppose well-disciplined troops; but he knew an instance where 100,000 undisciplined men enterea the arena, and were so well organised within an hour, that they not only combatted but conquered the best and bravest troops.._ (Cheers.) On that occasion each man was handed a marked ticket ; there were poles erected bearing dupli cate numbers, so that each man knew that he was to hasten to such a pole where he found his Offerer. Thus, in 1829, the liberties of France were secured, for the time, trom being trampled under the tyrants' feet.—( Cheers.) Tne same organization could be effected in 1839. _ _ Messrs. Cardo, Collins, Smart, and Deegan, having briefly addressed the Convention upon the motion, and Mr. James Taylor having asked leave to enter his protest against it, which was refused, a Select Committee of nine was appointed to draw up a plan for a complete and effective organization of the country. With the exception of Mr. James Taylor there was not a dissentient to the appointment of this Committee. On the motion of Mr. SKEVINOTON, three Delegates were appointed to proceed to London to confer with Mem bers of Parliament on the best means of bringing the Peo ple's Charter, with the least possible delay, before the House of Commons. Adjourned at two till four o'clock. WEDNESDAY EVENING. (Continuation of the discussion on Ulterior Measures, at the meeting on Wednesday. ) The debate on these measures was resumed this evening. The question appeared to have excited the greatest inte rest, as the room throughout the evening was densely thronged, whilst crowds were unable to gain admission. . Dr. FLETCHEIt said that if the holiday must be post poned till the people had laid up sufficient means for their maintenance during the suspension of labour, it must never take place.--( Hear, hear.) But it was desirable that there should be some time for organization and mak ing the necessary arrangement. It was very desirable, too, that the other propositions in the manifesto should be be previously carried into effect. The run on the banks, especially, ought to be begun immediately.—( Hear, hear.) This was calculated to embarass their opponents in the high est degree. The present state cf the banks would render it unjustifiable to delay the carrying into effect a general demand for gold.—( Hear, hear.) He did not advocate this with a view to avoid the holiday. It was the most effective measure for compelling their opponents to sub mit to the popular demands, and ought not longer to be de layed than while the other might have full effect.—( Hear, hear.) He would propose the following amendment: — That the people be called upon immediately to carry into effect the Ist, 2d, 4th, and 6th propositions of the mani festo, and if the Charter be not passed into a law before the 20th of July, they be advised to commence a general ab stinence from all labour." Dr. M'DouALL was in favour of a run upon the bank, and exclusive dealing, but he looked upon the sacred month as being best calculated to force from their oppres sors the people's rights, and as a revolution from whence would arise that general reformation for which they were ail struggling —( Hear, hear.) The people were well organised in England, Scotland, and Wales ; and in Ash ton-under-Lyne, they had exercised their constitutional right of being well armed.—( Hear, hear.) Still he was anxious to witness a regular system adopted, which would secure them from arrests, and that would be best effected by dividing the people into sections of tens, hundreds, and thousands.—( Hear, hear.) There could be no danger of want during the sacred month, as they had the store of their oppressors to fall back upon.— ( Hear, hear.) Mr. &sow en said, that if he ever felt pleasure in his life, it was at his having regained his liberty, in older that he might record his opinion on the present subject.—. ( Hear, hear.) He well knew the feeling of the men of Birmingham, and they were resolved to put an end to their sufferings, and pull down their oppressors to the same level with themselves.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. More considered that the sacred month should not be recommended until the Charter, which should be urged on the Parliament with the least possible delay, was re jected. All the other propositions had his most hearty concurrence.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. BURNS was in favour of all the ulterior measures being adopted. He was not desirous to force the people to a premature step, still the probability of a dissolution or prorogation of Parliament rendered it imperative upon them to act with decision.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. TILLEY had received instructions not to rote for the sacred month until it was shown how the people, when driven to the starvation point, were provided with some means of living.—(Hear, hear.) He supported Dr. Fletcher's amendment. Mr. DEANS regretted to differ in opinion from any gentleman, but he had received instructions from his constituents to use his best efforts to cause the Conven tion to name the time when the sacred month shall corn mence.—( Hear, bear.) Distress is so great in the neigh bourhood of Manchester, that in that town alone front 10,000 to 12,000 rise every morning, and without know ing where to find a breakfast.—( Hear, hear.) The mills in some instances have been stopped altogether, and in most cases, are only working two days per week. The manufacturers last week proposed a reduction of 30 per cent. on wages, and if the working men will not agree to that reduction, they will stop the mills altogether and already 50 mill-owners have agreed to stop their mills for a month.—( Shame.) If the time for the sacred month is not named, the people in his district will be forced into a collision with their oppressors.—( Ilear, hear.) Mr. MARSDEN, after adverting with regret to the lan guage used by Mr. O'Connor and Bailie Craig, said it was natural for men, or at least extremely common with them to get out of danger themselves, and to put others in the foremost ranks in the hour of danger; but this was not the way in which the Members of the Convention should act.—( Hear, hear.) The run upon the banks had already operated upon trade, the tendency of which was to drive EVENING ED'TiON. men out of employment, and inflict the greatest sufferings upon the working classes.—( Hear, hear.) Thus they had sent the most wretched of their fellow-beings as a forlorn hope to enter the breach in the wall of corruption.—( Hear, hear ; No, no.) It was the duty of the Convention to lead the way, and to form the forlorn hope, and with this feel ing he called upon them to name the day for the sacred month.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. NEESOM followed on the same side, snd supported the view of the last speaker. Mr. LOVETT said, that while he concurred with the propriety of calling upon the people to immediately run upon the backs, to convert their paper money into gold, and to adopt the system of exclusive dealing, he did not think that those measures of themselves would accomplish the object.—( Hear, hear.) They would, however, be auxiliaries to that end. They would annoy and harrass the enemy, and weaken his power, therefore he was in favour of the adoption, and he had no doubt but that the people would follow up the good work they had begun, at all sacrifiees.—(lear, hear.) He, however, thought that the sacred month was the most efficient measure towards securing their object—that of causing the People's Char ter to Is, .come the law of the land.--( Hear, hear.) But while he entertained this opinion, he thought that great prurience and caution were necessary, both in selecting the time and making provisions for the contest. He thought that the House of Commons ought to be tested both on Mr. Attwood's motion and the People's Charter; on the rejection of those measures by the House, he thought the Convention ought to be prepared with a plan by which the holiday, or sacred month, could be carried successfully into effect.—(Hear, hear.) He believed the Convention would do well to make a select.on of such trades and occupations which, if they struck, would soon compel all other trades to leave off work.--( Hear, bear.) Ile thought, however, timely notice of the intention ought to be given to the public, in order that a provision should be mide, by a fund or otherwise, to induce such particular and necessary trades and occupations to strike.—(Hear, hear.) Thus they would compel the strike to be a general one, the only thing which could insure success.—(Hear, hear.) He knew that such trades were quite with the Convention in determination ; yet the (Ailing upon others to make soils provisions as we had alluded to would be a kind of barometer by which to test opinion. It would have its due weight with the middle classes, and force them to make common cause with the people in pre venting danger by timely concessions to justice.—( Hear, hear.) He voted for a run on the banks, but hoped the Convention would not too hastily fix the day for the holiday.—( Hear, hear.) After some okservations from Messrs. Deegan, Wood house, Hartwell, Pitkeithley, and the Chairman, in fa vour of a run upon the banks, exclusive dealing, and against prematurely fixing the day for the commencement of the sacred month, but approving of the latter proposi tion in its proper time, Dr. TAYLOR agreed not to press that part of the resolu tion fixing the day, but to substitute for it—." That the Convention meet on the 13th of July, for the purpose_pf fixing the day for the sacred month, in ease that the Char ter be rejected by the Commons' House."—( Cheers. ) The amendments were withdrawn, and the original re solution, in its amended form, was carried nem. con. BERWICK, JUNE 28.—The crops in our neigh bourhood have :been very much improved by , the late rains, which are supposed now to have fallen in sufficient quantity for present purposes. The pastures and corn crops look all well; in several fields in our immediate neighbourhood the wheat and barley are already in ear, and otherwise in. dicate a forwardness to maturity which, considering the backward spring, is both surprising and gratifying. We hear no calculations as to the period of the harvest ; and in the absence of all grave forebodings of its lateness, we conclude that there is no ground for alarm. —Scotch Paper. CAPTAIN O'BRIEN'S ADVENTURES.—W e are requested to state that the new wo:k, entitled " My Adtentures during the late War, comprising a Narrative of shipwreck, Captivity, and Escapes from French Pri. sons, from 1804 to 1827," by Captain D. 11. O'Brien, R. N., dedicated by permission to her Most Gracious Majesty Queen Victoria, is published this day, in 2 vols. Bvo., with illustrations, by Mr, Celburn, of Great Marl borough-street, and may now be had of all bookseller's. Mr. Colbuen has also this day published the new word entitled " Temptation ; or, a Wife's Perils," in 3 vols. post _Bvo. GRAND AGRICULTURAL MEETING AT OXFORD.—.We understand Mr. Benjamin' Edgington, of 2, Duke-street, Southwark, has received instructions from the Central Society of Agriculture to prepare canvass covering far a temporary erection, enclosing the Quad angle of Queen's College, Oxford, being an area of 140 feet square, and capable of accommodating 2,000 persons to dine. The fete will take place on the 17th of July, and Earl Spencer is expected to be in the Chair. DEAFNESS AND DEFECTIVE VISION.--At length those dreadful maladies are completely obviated, without torture and serious risk by medical treatment, The Messrs. S. and B. Solomon s , Opticians a n d A ur i sts to their Majestie s th e Ki ng and Queen of Hanover, and their Royal Highnesses the Princesses Augusta and Sophia, &c. Src , 39, Albemarle -street, Piccadilly, have constructed a Voice-Conductor, and newly-invented Spec tacle Lenses, which will be found in most extreme cases to effect instant relief. It is seldom or ever that an invention of striking- merit is laid befelre the public that ignor an t p reten d ers do not start f orth: in no ca s e is this more observable than in Ireland as well as England, by persons who not only assume the name of So lomons, but actually as having a connection with their house, 39, Albemarle -street. Numerous ladies and gentle- . men are daily calling who have been misled by these preten ders, and who have made purchases of their spurious imi tations, which they term Voice Conductors and Spectacles, supposing them to be the Messrs. Solomons' invention, which not only proved to be useless but productive of very ill effects. The Messrs, Solomons do net employ any agents or travellers—their improvements in the materials are secrets to themselves, and are solely confined to their establish ment, 39, Albemarle -street. SOCIETY OF ASSOCIATED BRITONS.--The anniversary dinner of this excellent institution took. place on Monday, at the Grove House, Camberwell, on which occasion their much respected member, Mr. Heywood, of Goodge-street, presided in that admirable way for which he is so much distinguished, and by the urbanity and con viviality he displayed contributed greatly to the harmony and happiness of all present. After the usual toasts bad been drunk, the Chairman's health was proposed and re ceived with that enthusiastic applause he so well deserved, and the company broke up with every feeling of gratifica tion, not only for the entertainment they had enjoyed, but for the charitable purpose for which they had assembled. The author of the most celebrated series of Military Tales extant (" Stories of Waterloo") is on the eve of publishing a History of the Victories and Conquests of the British Armies during the last half century, the most glorious period of our annals, including the splendid achievements in the East, and the more recent triumphs in Egypt, Spain, Italy, and Belgium. These are exciting themes for an English reader, not only as exhibiting the heroism of his countrymen, but as demonstrating the signal effect which that heroism produced on the destiny of Eu rope. The author has already proved his high ability in the treatment of such national and animating narratives. SHEFFIELD PLATED WINE COOLERS. A. R. SAVORY and SONS, Manufacturing Silversmiths, 14, Cornhill, London (opposite the Bank of England), have for choice in their warerooms a Selection of PLAIN and ORNA NIENTAL ICE PAILS, to which they wish to direct attention. The price of the Plain Tub-pail (now much in use), 81. 101. the pair ; the Classic Vase (very neat), 101. Bs. the pair ; the Victoria Pattern, 151. the pair ; the Dresden Cooler, 191. the pair, &c., all of which are strongly mounted with Silver, and have Silver Shields for Engraving the Crest or Coat of Arms. A pamphlet is published, with drawings of the above and other articles of plate generally, Which may be had on applica tion, free of cost. PATENT L E VER WATCHES. Price, at T. COX SAVORY'S, 47, Cornhill, Lyndon. SILVER. CASES. With double-bottom cases £6 6 0 With hunting cases 6 16 6 COLD CASLS. Size for ladies, with elegant gold dial l2 12 0 Size for gentlemen, with enamel dial This celebrated construction (the most accurate on whiela a watch can be made) is now offered at the above price, with the latest improvements, i. e., the detached escapement, jewelled in tour holes, capped, hand to mark the seconds, and maintaining power to continue going while winding up. 'l'. COX SAVORY, Working Silversmith, Goldsmith, ana Watchmaker, 47, Corn hill, London ( Seven Doors from Gracechurch-street). / it '1 HS. On the 2d inst., at Worcester, Mrs. John Becke, of a daughter. On the 3d inst., in Upper Berkeley -street West, Mrs. Jeph son, of a daughter. On the 3d inst., at Rye-terrace, Peckham, Mrs. David Blen karne, of a daughter. On the 3d inst., at Lewisham, the lady of Samuel Legge, Esq., of a daughter, still-born. On the 3d inst., at Peckham Rye, Mrs. Edward M. Hardy of a son. On the 3d inst., in Alpha-road, St. John's.wood, the lady of George Maclean, Esq., Assistant Commissary-General to the Forces, of a daughter. MARRIED On the 2,1 inst., at Walcot Church, by the Rev. J. L. Dighton, Walter Irvine, M.D., youngest, and only surviving, son of the late Christopher William Irvine, of the Island of Tobago, and Lansdown-crescent, Bath, Esq., to Charlotte Alicia, only daughter of the late Captain Jones of the 39th Regiment. On the 2a inst., at. St. Paul's Chapel, Xinchroore-hill, the Rev. Edward Blackburn, Warren, M.A., Minister of the above chapel, to Mary Ann, second daughter of the late Edward Busk, Esq., of Ford's-grove, Aliddlesex. On the 2,1 inst., at Richmond, Surrey, Edward Godfrey, youngest son of the Rev. William Bartlett, late Vicar of Newark, Notts, to Charlotte, youngest daughter of the Re v . William Bewsh er , D . D ., late of Richmond, Surrey. On the 2d i nst., at St. Nicholas, Prighton, Andrew Mac dougall, E sq., of the 73d Bengal Infantry, to Myra S op hi a, C eld avaestlr daughter o f t h e late C o l one l J o h n Nuthall, Bengal y. On 2d inst., at St. George's, H anover -square, Chas. Con dell, Esq., of Lincoln's-inn-fields, to Ann, eldest (laughter of Mr. Goatly, of Old Bond-street. Also, on the same day, Mr. Thomas Samuel De Vear, of Lisle-street, to Louisa Teresa, second daughter of Mr. Goatly, of Old Bond -street. Oa the 3d inst., at Christ Church, St. Marylebone, James Bridges, Esq., of Woolwich-common, to Miss Susanna Anne Auger, niece of .James Wadmore, Esq., of Chapel-street, Pad dington. D On the 24th ult., Arthur, second son, and on the Ist inst., George. eldest son, of G. B. Airy, Esq., Astronomer Royal. On the 21st ult., at Vienna, John Rankin, Esq., formerly of the lion. East India Company's Military Service, Bengal, and of upper Wimpole-street, ag e d 77 . On the 30th ult., at Margate, Elizabeth, the wife of Edward Dalton, Esq., of Elm -grove, Peckham. On the 27th ult., at Bordeaux, Anne, the widow of Harry Scott, Esq., late her Majesty's Consul at that place. On the 2d inst., at Grosvenor-gate, Lieutenant-Colonel Viney Evans, of the 29th Regiment of Foot. London: Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG, of No. 112, Strand, at The Sun Office. No. 112, Strand, in the county of lliddlesex.—Friday, July 5, 139.