The Sun. — London, England, 1845-02-25 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 24. The Loan CHANCELLOR. took his seat on the Woolsack shortly after Five o'clock. SCOTCH BANKING. The Earl of ROSEBERY presented two petitions—one from the Chamber of Commerce and Manufactures of Edin burgh and the other from the provost, magistrates, &c., of the royal burgh of Haddington—against any alteration in the Scotch currency. The petitioners viewed with alarm the in tentions of her Majesty's Government with respect to banking in Scotland. CHURCH-RATES. The Earl of RADNOR presented a petition from a Dissen ter in Chester, complaining of the course pursued with respect to himself, in oonsequence of his refusing to pay church-rates. The Noble Earl also moved for certain returns relative to the importation of corn, &c., which were agreed to after a few ob servations from the Earl of Dalhousie. TEMPERANCE. Earl FITZ WILLIAM presented a petition from Wellingbo rough, Northamptonshire, praying their Lordships to adopt some measures to prevent the growth of intemperance, and the sale of spirituous liquors on the Sabbath day. Lord SUDELEY gave notice, on behalf of the Earl of For tescue, of his intention, on the 27th of next month, to present a petition from Exeter and South Dolton, praying for a revi sion of the laws relating to the rubric of the Church. RATING. Lord BEAUMONT wished to put a question to the Noble Lord opposite, and at the same time to draw attention to a very important document which had been laid on their Lordships' table. The question he wished to put was, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Govern ment to make any alteration this session in the law of rating. The document to which he wished to direct attention was the report of the Poor-law Commissioners on local taxation. In this paper it was stated that the almost incredible amount of eleven millions sterling, was annually disposed of by local authorities, and, moreover, that there were twenty-nine different rates, every one of them raised on a different system for various and different purposes. So complicated was the law that it was totally impossible for them to conform to any general rule or law.—( Hear, hear. ) In the same document it was stated that there were no less than 250,000 levies, none of which were subject to any law or regulation, and the property on which they are levied differed in nearly every case. Lord WHARNCLIFFE was understood to reply that the matter would be dealt with in the law of settlement. The Earl of FITZWILLIAII said the law of settlement was a very different question to that which had been discussed by his Noble Friend. There were no less than twenty-four of these different local Acts, all of them founded on different cir cumstances. He thought it would he exceedingly advisable if the whole of these rates cculd be amalgamated. It caused a great deal of inconvenience to be obliged to sub scribe one shilling and sixpence for this, and one shilling for that, paying first on the Monday, then on the Tuesday, again on the Wednesday, and so on. It would be much better if the whole of these rates were abolished, and one general rate .established, empowering the authorities to appropriate it to general purposes. He conceived this would be a great improve ment on the present system of levying local taxation. The subject then dropped. LAN OF DEODAND. —.— Lord CAMPBELL, in pursuance of a notice he had given .on a former occasion, laid a Bill on the table for abolishing deodands- The Noble and Learned Lord characterised it as a foolish and absurd law, and expressed his surprise that it ,hould have been allowed to exist from time immemorial to the nineteenth century. He would briefly state what the law was which he wished to abolish. By the old common law of _England, which was still in force, it was provided that all per no:nal chattels which should tend to the death of a human being ehreeld be forfeited to the Crown, no matter whether the •wrier of the chattel was concerned in the affair or not, because in ilisat case it would become murder or manslaughter, and the law of d otiand would not apply. Now, he thought it extremely absurd t : . iat if a man took his sword and slew another, that his sword sh e eld be forfeited to the Crown. He could give ... various instances ilustrating the absurdity of the law, but he q thought one or two ,7 4r re ld be quite sufficient. If an ox gored a man, the ox was not .4'cfeited ; but if a man fell from the horse of another, and was kille."4 the horse became a deodand. The law of deodand, however, di..4 not apply if the chattel were not in motion at the time the acciden' occurred ; thus, if a man climbing up a waggon fell from the war'.Ont the waggon was not forfeited ; but if the waggon is in mote.'lls the ease became different. As the law row stood, if a person on the top of a coach being intoxicated, fell asleep, tumbled from the top of the coach and was killed, the coach and everythinit in the coach, including the luggage of the passengers , would h?forfeited. The law made some very absurd distinctions ; thus, if a man fell from a ship into salt water, there was no deodand ; but a man fell front a ship into fresh water, then the ship and cargo became forfeited to the Crown. 'The ancient law provided that the chattels should be sold, and the proceeds spplied to the performances of mass for the salvation of the soul of the de ceased. Now, he felt that this ought not any longer to he the case. It placed the coroner in a peculiar position, and imposed upon him the duty of inflicting a punishment—for he was, in fact, the instrument of the jury—when, in fact, he was only engaged in making an inquiry. He thought that the imposi tion of a deodand was, at least, contrary to the spirit of the law. The power, his Noble Friend said, was definite and in dependent; but he (Lord Campbell) doubted whether the imposition of a deodand might not be revised by the Court of Queen's Bench ; and of the whole of the law of deodands he would nut hesitate to sayehat they were a clog on the adminis tration of justice, and that, too, in cases where the application of the principle of recompence was sometimes the most ap parent. He (Lord Campbell) had on this subject consulted a most intelligent coroner—he meant Mr. Wakley—on this point, and he quite assented to the view he had taken. In many cases no cause of action could lie. In others the principle fell with peculiar force on the proprietors and directors of railways. The law in France, and most other continental countries, and, he believed, also in Scotland, avoided this abuse. In Scotland, however, the law was any thing but correct. In that country, if a man was thrown from a coach and was killed, no deodand could be imposed. because there was no one who could claim a pecuniary right in his services. While in another case, if a boy was thrown from a coach and injured, his fattier could claim recompence, though he believed that a case had occurred the other day in which a boy had been injured, and then a deodand was im posed. —( Hear, hear.) The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he believed the ease to which his Noble Friend had referred, in which death had ensued, the individual who suffered was the man's wife and not his sun. Lord CAMPBELL said, the correction of his Noble Friend was immaterial. All he was anxious to show was, that no cause of action would lie in many cases in which a deodand was imposed. This was evidently an absurdity width ought to be amended, and he therefore hoped that no opposition would be offered to the introduction of the Bill which he was desirous of laying on the table of the House, and which he should beg to move might be read a first time that night. He believed his Noble Friend (Lord Littleton) had a measure of something similar character to lay before the Ilouse. What were the precise provisions of that Bill he was not Aware, though he believed they were in many respects similar to those of his own Bill. He was, however, ready to meet any proposition of his Noble Friend, either to amalgamate the two Bills, to introduce such clauses of his own as might be necessary to render the Bill of his Noble Friend complete, or he would take the contrary course, and introduce such provi sions as the Bill of his Hon. Friend contained, but in which his own Bill was deficient. Or he would, as a third course, be willing to introduce the two Bills pari passu, and leave the House to deal with the clauses as they might deem best. The LORD CHANCELLOR did not wish to oppose the proposition of his Noble Friend (Lord Campbell). The system of deodand presented many instances of absurdity, and he thought that opportunity for them ought to be abolished. There were, however, some points which he wished to bring under the consideration of his Noble Friend. His Noble Friend was aware that deodands were considered to form a por tion of the extraordinary revenues of the Crown, and that pre vious to the introduction of any measure for abolishing the im position of deodands, he thought that it would be necessary to obtain the consent of the Crown before the passing of the measure. He thought it would be better to obtain this con sent before the introduction of the measure rather than apply for that consent when the Bill was in its last step. There was also another point which he wished to brine under the con sideration of his Noble Friend, and that was—that as this was a Bill which referred to money, whether it was competent for the House of Lords to entertain the question of the abolition of deo.iands. He repeated, that he did not wish to oppose the in troduction of the measure of his Noble Friend, but merely to draw his attention to the points which he had submitted. Lord CA NIPBELL said that so fully aware was he that the consent of the Crown was necessary to tke measure he had to introduce, that he had sent notice of his intention to bring in his Bill to her Majesty's Ministers, with a view to obtain their consent. With respect to granting compensation to those individuals to whom the value of the deodands had been granted by the Crown, he could not see how they were entitled to any recompence for the loss of a thing which was only of value so long as it had existed, and as a property in the nature of a deodand was always of uncertain value,and might subside by other means as well as by an Act of Parliament, there could be no vested interest in it, and therefore the claim to compensation was a groundless one. Another consideration which his Noble Friend on the Woolsack had brought under his notice was the impropriety of originating a measure of this character in the House of Lords. Had his ( Lord Campbell's) Bill been a money Bill, there would, doubtless, have been an obstacle. But he (Lord Campbell) conceived that there was a material difference between this and a money Bill. A deodand was im posed in the nature of a penalty for an •ffenee, and not as a supply for the Crown. Deodands were instituted originally, not for the sake of revenue, but were given to pay for ensuring the rest of the soul of the deceased, so that though this mea sure was introduced without consent, he should not, he conceived, be infringing on the rights of the Crowe's. Several measures analogous to this had been introduced into the House of Commons during the Presidency of his Noble Friend Lord Canterbury, who had just entered the House. With the zeal of his Noble Friend all were acquainted, and all were ready to allow his great knowledge of the forms of the House, and of the extent of constitutional privileges. Yet he had never oh jeeted to the introduction of those measures, and he (Lord Campbell) therefore felt justified in bringing this measure be fore their Lordships, and moving the first reading of the Bill. Afer a few observations from Lord Moerreee ex and the LOR:. CHANCELLOR the Bill was laid on the table. RAILWAYS. The Earl of DALHOUSIE laid on the table the report of the ttailvs ay Committee of the Board of Trade, with respect to the Manchester and Leeds and other railways. Earl FITZ WILLIAM did not wish to impugn the conduct of the Committee of the Board of Trade, as he thought the public were deeply indebted to them for the trouble they had taken.s He was induced to take this opportunity of making of ;o a bservations, because it appeared to him t>: at. that Board ' d r e had not been fairly dealt with in other places.— (Hear, near.) He was himself clearly of opinion that it would be better that Parliament should not entertain any of these Railway Bills until the o 'llion of the Board of Trade had been given up on i t. He thought p' that the Government ought origi nally to ha ve i ssued a Co mm i ss i on t o i nqu i re i nto t h e b es t mode of r a il way communication s over the count r y. He did not mea n to to the opi n i on o f th e B oar d o f Trade ought al ways " deference ought t o be be ad o pt e d, b ut t h e grea t est paid to it. H e th oug ht w h en the opinion of the Board of Trade was against a mea s ur e it would be conclusive, b ut he did not think it should be so when they reported in favour of the measure. He believed that the whole course that had beenuaedoted by the Board of thought t.it the traffic in Trade showed the pure,t motives. Executive Government. by legislative railway shares ought to be put an end to, r proceedings or the conduct of the Execu ' This was a subject worthy of the consideration ofPa It had been said that railway Bills were private Billsliamtieonwt., he thought it was a perfect monstrosity to say so, when • considered that those very measures were the means ofa l fi t o w nr. ing communication through all parts of the country. He was sorry that the authority of the B o ar d of t rade had not been more looked up to than it had been in certain quarters. He trusted that their Lordships would lend their assistance to up hold that authority. He felt bound, however, to say that he considered the Board had not been properly constituted, to make its authority acquiesced in. He trusted that an efficient body would be formed, to take this important subject into con sideration. The Earl of DALHOUSIE said that the power that had been given to the Board of Trade, with respect to railways, bad been given as an experiment. During the last year the Committee of the Board of Trade upon Railways had been ex- THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNINE - 4-, FEBRTTA-RV 25 184;. ceedingly pressed in consequence of the great number of rail way Bills that had been brought forward. He thought, there fore, the greatest latitude ought to be given them in preparing their reports. The whole of the proceedings of the Board would be before Parliament in a short time. The Committee of the Board of Trade had been treated as culprits, and as cul prits condemned. Now, all he asked was, not that they should receive pardon, but that they should be put again upon their trials. Lord CAMPBELL thought the Board was not supported by any authority. Certainly it rested upon the resolution of another House, but he believed their Lordships had come tono resolution whatever. It could not, therefore, be expected that the decisions of the Board should be acquiesced in until the reasons fer them had been laid before the public, and the matter had been examined in a Select Committee. He most distinctly and strongly protested against the report of the Board of Trade being looked upon as an absolute decision, for it was im possible the Board could have in every case been supplied with sufficient information to enable them to form a correct judg ment as to the merits or demerits of any particular scheme. Indeed, the Noble Lord himself had admitted that in some it - stances they were groping in the dark; and he therefore did not think it right that the decision of the Board should disturb the interests of persons who had invested in some of these railway speculations to the amount of several hundred thousand pounds. —( Hear, hear. ) The Earl of DALHOUSIE reminded the House that a Committee of the House of Commons had sat for a long time considering this question—whether there should be any parti cular inquiry into railway schemes by a Board in connexion with the Government, and this Committee discussed the matter in all its bearings. The decision they came to was—that there should not only be a Board of Inquiry of this nature, but that it should be entrusted to the Board of Trade, and not only to the Board of Trade, but to the railway department of the Board of Trade, to form this tribunal. Not only did they do this, but they explained what should be the functions of this Railway Board, the precise manner in which it should be regu lated, and, in order that there should not be the slightest room fur objection, the Committee stated what the Board should not do. They, therefore, not only defined what were the functions and the particular points to be discussed by the Board, but they went further, and detailed what were the points on which the Board should not be permitted to inquire. How coul I Noble Lords after this assert that the Board had been founded without due and sufficient authority? The subject then dropped, and their Lordships immediately afterwards adjourned. SUGAR DUTIES. Lord JOHN RUSSELL gate notice of a motion on the sub- ject of the differentiatl duties on slave-grown and free-labour sugar ; but the Noble Lord read hi 3 motion in so low a tone, that scarcely its scope could be guessed at in the gallery. WAYS AND MEANS. On the reading of the order of the day for geiug into a Committee of Ways and Means, Mr. VILNER GIBSON said tl.at he rose to move the amendment on the order of the day, of which he had given notice. If the House would give him its indulgence for a short period he would endeavour, as briefly as was consistent with a clear exposition of the views he entertained, to explain the grounds why he thought proper to move the present amendment. The amendment was a resolution, and was as follows :—" That to arrangement of the sugar duties will be satisfactory and per manent which does not involve an equalisation of duty on fo reign and colonial sugar." He was aware that there was an objection entertained by many Members of Parliament to the moving of what were called abstract resolutions ; and, certainly, if he were asked the question whether it were a de sirable course to move an abstract resolution without any prac tical result, he would answer that such a course would not be the wisest for a Member of Parliament to pursue, and in deed it would not at all be necessary to ask the assent of the House to what would be termed the " abstract pr'n ciple" contained in this resolution, because he believed that that principle had already received the full and un qualified concurrence of the Ministers of the Crown, and, as he believed, the great majority of the Members of that Howe. But it was because this resolution was a practical resolution, and indicated a mode for arrang ing the sugar duties on something like a permanent footing, that he undertook to submit it to the House. The course he had taken was sanctioned, fully sanctioned by precedent, be cause it would be in the recollection of the House that when the Noble Lord the Member for Liverpool (Lord Sandon) had, when a mode of arranging the sugar duties was brought for ward by the late Executive Government, submitted his view in the form of a resolution, and in that resolution he indi cated what he conceived would be a fitting mode of placing those sugar duties on a permanent footing. The point to which he drew the attention of the House was the neces. sity 6f maintaining a distinction betwesn sugar the produce of slave-labour and free-labour in the markets of this country. The Noble Lord contended that it would be consistent with the course hitherto taken by Parliament with regard to the slave trade so to arrange the duty on foreign produce as to give a direct encouragement to one or the other. But though the Noble Lord invited them to take that course, as something like a permanent settlement of the sugar duties, ex perience had proved that no gain was effected for the country in the nature of a settlement, for the question of the sugar duties was in a state of constant suspense ; and since that period the sugar trade was in a state of uncertainty and depression, and they hail already had to pronounce their opinion on several dis tinct measures for arranging the taxation on sugar. And they knew well that nothing was so prejudicial to the sugar trade ot the country as to subject the duty by enactment to continued alterations, because no person would engage in a trade which was subject to the continued alterations of the Legislature. The question which was to be introduced that night was, in his opinion, a strong argument for something which should lead to the permanent settlement of this question. His lion. Friend the Member for Coventry had called the attention of Hon. Members, in consequence of a petition which he had pre ented to the House, to the loss which must be sus tained by the dealers in sugar, from the rise of duties on that article, by the influence of the alteration of duties on the stock in hand, and asking for some recompense for that loss. The Hen. Member for Norfolk had put questions of a similar tendency. He did think that when petitions of this character were presented to the House, that common sense re quired that the question should be so entertained as to place it on a permanent basis, and thus leave this great interest in such a position as to preserve it from continual changes. He was aware that in the course which the Right Hon. Gen tleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was obliged to take, he could not obviate the difficulty by a permanent Act of Parliament for the assessment of the sugar duties. He was also aware that this was contrary to the con stitutional principle, but at, the same time he thought that this interfered in no way with the necessity imposed by a great public principle ; on the contrary, he felt that this was in itself an argument for some measures by which the dealers in that great article of sugar should be saved arum the continual changes to which they were subject. Though it was impos sible to pass an Act for the permanent settlement of these duties, yet there was a great argument afforded not only by the existence of this constitutional obstacle, but also by the peculiar condition of colonial property, for the settlement of the impost to which sugar was subject. If they would not pass a permanent Art, they could at least so settle the question as to put every one dealing in this article in such ' a position as to know to what they would in future be subject. They might pass such a measure as would be agreeable to the common feeling of the House, and thus place a regulation on the hooks that might be renewed from year to year. The Right Hon. Gentleman had invited them to a Committee of Ways and Means to vote a supply to her Majesty. He had no objection to accede to that invitation.. Ifa tax was to be raised in an indirect manner he thought the duty on sugar was a very reasonable duly. There could be no fair objection to it ; but to a different rate of duty between foreign and colonial sugar, a duty having reference to the place of growth, and the whole of that tax being paid by the consumer in this country—to that course, he said, he entertained an insurmountable objection. No doubt such a result might come from the measure based on the principles which the Right limmurable Gentleman had submitted to the House. Nothing was more clear than if they imposed different rates of duty, upon sugar, with reference to its place of growth, or upon any other such principle, the difference between the rates of duty went not into the Exchequer but into the pockets of some par ticular class. Two descriptions of sugar were in Loral, sac of equal value. It was necessary perhaps to define what he meant by equal value. He meant what it would sell for in the markets of the world. Take that value to be 245.: to the one sample apply a duty of 28s, to the other apply a duty of 14s. Now, what is the consequence? It was quite clear that if the sample of sugar at the duty of 284. be sold in the markets of this country, it must sell for 525., 525. being the total of 28s. the duty, and 245. the supposes! original cost. This was a sample of what is termed slave grown sugar. Now the sample, when brought into our mar kets, fetched but 425. Now where did the difference go ? Not into the Exchequer, but into the pockets ot the colonial grower. He would take a sugar worth 245., and a sugar worth 15s.— the two extremes. He would apply the 28s. duty to ti:e sugar worth 245., when it became in the market 525. ; he would ap ply the 14e. duty to the sugar worth 15s ; and he contended that the mar worth 155., whatever the duty applied to it, would always maintain its relative value to the other. Just in the same manner that sugars of equal value must sell for the same amount in our markets, so sugars of different value would always maintain the same relation towards each other. Applying the duty of 28s. to the sugar worth 155., it would sell for 435. Deducting 14s. from 435., 293. would remain, and thus 14s. had been pocketed by the colonial grower, which ought to go into the public revenue. Whether, in fact, they took sugars of equal or sugars of unequal value, if they applied to them a different rate of duty, they put into the pockets of some particular individuals in this country the difference of duty, and prevented thewhole amount of taxation paid by the consumer from going into the Exchequer. The question which concerned the inlet ests of Ike people of this country was not whether the identical duties taken at t he Cus tom-house went into the public exchequer, but whether the additional price paid bt the consumer did so, and if it did not, then a gross injustice was perpetrated against the people of this country. He did not know whether Hon. Gentlemen would dispute, that if they imposed differential duties they attached to every description of colonial sugar the full amount of the difference of duties. If the amount of protection were Ioe., they put 10s. into the pocket of the colonial grower over and above the addition made by the duty of 14s. lie would take the duty at 14s. upon colonial sugar. First, 14s. was added by the duty ; and, secondly, 10e. by . the pro tection, with respect to every description of colonial sugar. And what was the effect of such an addition to the price ? What was the extent of the fraud thus practised upon the revenue ? The Right Hon. Gentleman had told them the other evening that he expected that there would be 230,000 tons of colonial sugar admitted next year —at 10s. a cwt., or 10/. a ton, that would amount to the sum of 2,300,001 !. That was the sum which they were invited to take out of her Majesty's Ex chequer, and to pay to the West Indian and the East Indian proprietors. ~. 2 was the sum which it was proposed to 306,0001. take out of the pockets of the people and to give it to the colo nial producer.—( Hear, hear.) This was a monstrous act of injustice ups n the face of it.—( Hear, hear.) He knew that there were lion. Gentlemen who would contend that there was good reason why the colonial proprietors should be en titled to demaud this 2,300,0001. from the public exchequer'. But, as a Member of Parliament repre senting the public interests, and not the interests of any particular e a sstes, he was certainly entitled to ask why called upon t l e ie p w ay as tl e li n s ti s t u le m d to to the ask the community should Ins West and East Indian pro out, and v x they e t ia l i t s, a , t iluieerr. A la j, should sy that at least a case should be mat::' not be called upon to rush blindly .' i n, Government would have them do, at :si transfer this enormous sum from her Majesty's to the pockets of individuals. He had no notion of any reason as:;, ch could be adduced to justify the transferring of this enormous sum of 2,:300,000/. from her Majesty's Exchequer into the pockets of the East and West India proprietors.—(Cheers.) Why had it sot been mentioned in the first instance ')—( Hear, hear.) Why had not the Right lion. Gentleman given notice of it when he gave notice of his proposition ? They were called upon to . v o te money for her Majesty's exchequer, not to vote money to go into the pockets of private individuals.—( Hear, hear.) He would be the last to edvocate the principle he was advocating', if he thought it was a principle of injustice, and he hoped Gen tlemen opposite would not affix to him a charge, that because he was advocating the great principle, that national taxation should be levied solely for national purposes ; that, therefore, he was actuated by any personal motive to any class of her Majesty's subjects.—( Hear, hear. ) No man could be more glad than he would be to see the colonial interests prospering ; but he could not reconcile it to his conscientious sense of duty as a Member of Parliament to consent to the mea sure which the Right Hon. Baronet had proposed ; and if asy one duty was more incumbent on a Member of the Legisla ture than another, it was to take care that a tax on the public should not be imposed for the mere benefit of private individuals. All taxes imposed on the whole of the nation should be devoted exclusively to defraying the national expenditure, and he hoped that he might be per mitted to advocate that principle firmly and boldly, without laying himself open to the charge of being actuated by peculiar animosity to the West Indian or the East Indian producers. It had been said that there were grounds for transferring that 2,300,000/. during the next year to the colonial proprietors. It had been alleged that by the legislation of this country at former times they had acted towards the colonial proprietors in such a manner as to g ive them a just and equitable claim on the Exchequer. If that were so, he confessed that he would prefer a more direct mode of meeting that claim than giving it to the West India and East India proprietors in the form of monopoly. He believed it would be more satisfactory to the public, for there was nothing which the British public wished so much to see as a balance with debtor and creditor fairly set forth, in a clear and perspicuous manner. He be lieved that if a just claim was made out, that the British public would not object to it, or object to give a fitting sum from the public exchequer. But he contended that no such claim had been made out ; and he also contended that no such claim could be made out. He contended that if a difficulty had beeu caused by the legislation of this country, compensation had been given in the shape of a grant for 20,000,000/. The Right Hon. Baronet opposite had, on a former eccasion, dis tinctly stated that they were entitled to deal with the West Indies in the matter of duties, as they had purchased that right. He (Mr. Gibson) presumed that on that occasion the Right Hon. Baronet alluded to that grant of 20,000,0001. But with regard to that difficulty, which it was alleged had been created by their legislation, and for which 2,300,000/. were to be given to the colonists at large, he would ask any man in that House whether it was reasonable to give that compensation to other parties than those who complained of the grievance ? Was there not a complaint from the East Indies or the Mauri tius, or some of the West India islands, that they had suffered from a want of labour by the legislation of that House, and yet they proposed to give this sum of money, indiscriminately divided amongst a number of parties, none of whom ever pretended to have any claim to the protection of that House. If they were to vote that 2,300,000/. in an indirect and un satisfactory manner, let them, at any rate, vote it to those who pretended to have a claim ; and do not let them give it indis criminately to parties who had no claim whatever, beyond their being West Indian proprietors. It was well known that labour in British India—and his Hon. Friend the 51m4ex for Finsbury would concur with hire in the statement—that in no part of the habitable globe was labour more abundant or more cheap than in British India ; and he believed he was equally correct in saying that in the Mauritius there was also a surplus of labour, and that, in fact, the labourers were wandering about there in search of employment, so great was the number of coolies imported there. This was a point. which was not to he lost sight of in the event of the Hotast deeming it right to vote this large sum of money to those West India propri, tors, en the grounds of reimbursement. I. would not be right to vote any portion of this sum to the East Indies, be cause there was abundance of labour to be had there. The island of Barbadoes was actually overflowing with lsborte, and, therefore, it would not be right to grant any rortion of the money to the growers of that island. Neither were the growers in British India, or in the :Mauritius, or in Antigua, entitled to any share of it. And what portion, then, was left amongst whom it was to be shared, if those were left out ? They were reduced to very few indeed ; and even reduced es that number were, he would ask the House to consider whether ever they would be entitled to any potion of those two millions. What was the alleged grievance of which those growers complained, in refe ree& to this detirsency of labour? They contended that they were entitled to it because labour was not abundant ; that the cost of the produce of sugar was increased by the difficulty of procuring labour, and the high pri,e of labour in consequence. Now, how stood the fact? In the first place the House should receive very cautiously the statement of in terested parties, when they come to consider the eues t ion of the cost of producing sugar ; and, therefore, if they were to hearevidence on this point, he should suggest that it should be relevant and important, and should emanate from persons of authority and intelligence, and who were disinterested. He would then ask the house to consider what was the cost of pro ducing sugar during the time of the existence of slavery, and slat) at the time when no very sanguine hopes were entertained as to the emancipation of the slaves. lie would first take the cost of the produce, in the year 1828, of one hundred weight of sugar, with all the advantages of slavery in its most unmitigated form, and without the apprehension that slavery was about to be abolished. The authority he wished to quote on this point was a disinterested authority, was an authority that Parliament was entitled to receive with respect, an authority to which Parliament was entitled to pay the greatest attention. That authority was that of one of their own public officers, a perfectly disinterested man himself, who had writ ten a work on the sugar-cane and the cultivation of sugar—Mr. Porter of the Board of Trade.—( Hear, hear. ) What does he say in that work on the cost of producing a hundred weight of sugar during the period of slavery, previous to 1828 ? He says that the cost of producing it was about 9s. 10iil. per cwt. But he would take the liberty of reading an extract from Mr. Porter's work, which would perhaps he more satisfactory :—.‘ In the ten years from 1819 to 1828, the whole expense of a sugar estate attending its cultivation, in cluding salt provisions, provision grounds for the negroes, stores, repair of building medical attendance, the salaries of overseers and attorneys, cost of planta tions, and stores and clothing sent from England, was 26,851/. ; the number of slaveo was from 129 to 142, the average number 140. Th. produce consisted of 29,492 cwts. of sugar, and 164,285 gallons of rum ; now, if they valued the rum only at Is. fid. per gallon (the price is now 2s. 4d. ), this would give 12,3211., leaving a balance of 14,5291., being at the rate of 9s. 10id. per cwt., as the cost of the production of the swats" He was aware that theie were statements from interested parties, that made out the cost of producing one hundred weight of sugar tube lOW trw terially increased, and that even at the time he mentioned, that it was much greater than the sum he had named. But he contended that in Parliament, if they were to have authorities, let diem have that of experienced men, of Parliamentary Papers; let them not have merely the authoriti-s that might be quoted from the loose and random assertions made before Committees of that House by parties who had a particular object to serve. The gentleman he named was incapable of any misrepresentation, and entitled to their respect. He was one of their own paid officers, and had had experience to guide him in making the statement he had pub lished; therefore, as a witness, he was worth five hundred fold more than any interested parties they could bring as having made assertions before Committees of that House. Now, he ' had given the coot of raising a hundred weight of sugar during the period of slavery, upon this authority. He would now give them the cost of producing a cwt. of sugar on authority that he thought must hare great weight at the present time. The cost of 1 cwt. of sugar at the present moment, on two estates, subject to to all those difficulties which were now complained of, anti which were looked upon as formitig a ground for the protection, was 10s. 6d. The quotation %s h ich he was about to read was from the Jantaic t Royal Agricultural Reporter. That question had appeared in an ingenious periodical which he was sure her 3lajestv's Government must generally peruse, the Economist—(Laughter)—to which he was indebted for his attention being called to the facts ; and it was to fact, and not argument, he e - ould now call the attention of the House. The Jamaica Royal Agricultural Reporter of the 20th of January, 1544, contained a statement that the Royal Agricultural So. ciety gave a price of 201. or a piece of plate of that value, to the manager of any estate in mak ing the greatest quantity of sugar at the smallest cost, from the Ist day of January to the 3 !st of Decem ber, 1843, " all things considered." He begged the House to attend to the meaning of those words all things considered." By those words it was meant that allowance should be made to those managers who should make sugar at com paratively the least cost. For instance, if a manager were subject to a greater deficiency of labour than another competitor for the prize, then the greater cost of production necessarily occasioned by that deficiency, would be taken into consideration in award• ing the prize. What, then, was the difference of the cost of production? On one estate it was 10s. 6d. per cwt., and in another 6s. 91d. So that they had what appeared to be good authority for stating that the co s t of producing sugar was, in the island of Jamaica, since the period of slavery, from Gs. to les. per cwt. ; and, at this present mo ment, it was about 10s. tid. He asked whether that could possibly be a ground for giving them a bounty of 10s. on every cwt. which they produce ?—( Hear.) Why the protection was greater than the cost of production. But rumour said that, in reality, the protection was more than 10s.—( Hear.) He asked what possible ground, after the authority he had cited, there could be for giving an additional 10s. for every cwt. which was produced in those colonies ?—( Hear, hear.) If the Brazilian could produce sugar without any cost—if it were rained down from heaven— from the skies—without any effort of human industry— . lie would still be at a disadvantage in competing against this protection of Ins. per cwt.—( Hear, hear.) [ No person could deny the truth or justice of that argument, or [ that he had not based his facts on competent authority. If that were so, he would ask if they were, without further in quiry,, in . Go vernmentmeant b y t emphatically,that io s. p r 0 t andeeti existedo protection. Rut. the n u‘ spirit i Would any' af‘n,rt.ehmmreoemn:bat regard d a r remonstrance, i Indies,ao account. , ouanhtde of what wouldc h a a t a l ,si o tk ri w t wa h ases they ita without an attempt to resist this obnoxious tax, calmly to (gf ti n tehi s n)a e ect n my t , cochel alaedeficiencyallow tii satisfactoryes i N m v e po t si act scarcity i g t! ) e , up f i h a o n e d r e s r t s a? e thereWhy t, h t h e a Noblet a n y the h o t d L iffi or c d u , l t ty he ar s o e s e e r f e r f o a m ry the r the Colonies, and now a Member of the other House, had , stated, a year or two ago, that the number of labourers in the West Indian colonies was sufficient, and all that was ne cessary was, that their labour should be properly applied. and they themselves properly used. He thought he could show from the words of that Noble Lord that it was owing to the Emancipation Act not being carried out with true •pirit that any difficulty at all arose in procuring a continuance of labour. The Noble Lord said:—•` 11 --e rssuld venture to say that with regard to the expense of cult ivatio n , th ere was no s i ng l e i nstance in which this natural co nse quence did not follow as effect and cause—viz., that where they gave the negro labourer an interest in the amount of work to be performed, er in the amount of produce raised, then they would obtain constant and industrious labourers, not obtain a when theydid not give that interest, then they latthem. The amount o f competition carried would but on there at present was ruinous, and the planters competed with each other in such a way by employing the labourers at certain periods, and paying them accordingly, and not giving them an interest in their work, and rewarding them according to that work, that he thought that was the cause of the enormous expense the planters were now subjected to in the West Indies." That was the reason why they did not get the negro freely to give his sinews in their service.—( Hear, hear.) If that were true, and he had the authority of Lord Stanley for saying that it was true, that Noble Lord, who was the great. advocate far paying. the `,0,000,0001. compensation to the West India interest, how could they expect that the negro would work continually tor them ? Why, if the same principle were applied towards the British labourer, he very much doubted whether they would not find the same result, and many branches of their industry failing for want of continuous labour. It was stated at a pub lic meeting a few nights ago that, notwithstanding this com plain • t of the deficiency of tabour in Jamaica and other islands, there was another most anomalous complaint. They complained that they suffervd from the number of able-bodied paupers. Here was the same most strange anomaly. One party stated that they had not a s ufficient number of workmen to perform the necessary labour, and other members of the same party complained of the expense they incurred in maintaining a num ber of able-bodied paupers.—(Hear, hear.) Able-bodied - setters and protection seemed to have the same affinity as - - `•sruical bodies. Mono p ol y and p au p erism see m e d some et- • u. ar .) He could not account for it in any inseparable. —t ••• • - greatest amount of protection was so other way than when isle erism ensued. He defied any rat destructive of industry, that p,. `;ve interest was mains one to show him where a great proteen - tained, that there were not great numbers bodied of at' l e m pau pers. Ile believed able - b odied p a up ers must exist fro the created a nefarious system in the We st I ndi a n colonies._ elt free men, and re pugnance on the part of the proprietors to ma k free men, as they were called, were , i n point of fact, to a great extent, slaves. He very much doubted w het her the was con ditions implied in the servitude of the \N eat Indian negro _ not inconsistent with the spirit of the Em anci p ation Act, and at variance with the rights and privileges which that Act gave the negro a right to claim. Another reason assigned by the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies for the present de pression in the West India colonies , w as absenteeism on the part of the proprietors. Hsaid that the system was going on to such an extent, that it was in vain to hope for an improve ment ; and he further said, that these colonies would not be productive under any system of protection lived away from and monopoly. The great i great bulk of the West India proprietors their estates—they were perfcclv ignorant of all the branches of industry, and who had been employed in the cultivation of o f their own their estates. They knew nothing interests, and the pour negroes were left at the mercy of heartleis overseas, to get as much toil out of and attorneys, whose only d e sire ld was . Manufacturers, agricultu the poor wretches as they cou rists, distillers, and chemists, are a ll great connected, in a de gree, with the growth of the sugar-cane. lie would ask his Hon. Friend the Member fur Stockport whether, if he 'were print-works to be conducted to reside in Vienna, and leave Prin not fluid it impossible, by some overseer or attorney, he would • . however favourable might be markets am prices, to secure a - proper return for his capital. such, he said, was the condition They levied money from their of the 'd eest.lndia planters. estates, and unlike the English landed superintendence of a proprietors, thewho y did not tenant place those estates under the their case the same per felt an interest in its prosperity. son was landlord, tenant, manufacturer, distiller, and in n they came to that many instances merchant ; and • ' ,I,s business was not House and told them that t heir profitable, and asked them to levy a large con tribution from the great body f the perple, for the purpose of enabling them to themeet deficiencies which had been created by this absurd and injurious management. No man could deny that there was considerable force in this ob servation; and he would not claim sn not in his favour, amongst others , the Noble Lord the Secre• h e sorry to see the Hon. tary fur the Colonies. He should Member for Weymouth (Mr. Bernal) obliged to change his res idence in Jamaica ; he agreeable house in Eaton-place for should regret the loss of his society, and his being subjected to an unpleasant climate ; but he confessed he saw no hope fur the West India body, unless those who wer e the owners of estates either attended to them themselves, o r leased them to those who would have the same interst in them as the proprietors. If no tenant could be fo u nd to act as a substitute for the pro- better state of prietor, there was then no hope f or a his loins, and thingswent unless the p ro p r i e t or g irded UP out to his o wn p r operty to manage his own busi ness. —( Hear, h ear .) It was of no use to be dancing attendance on th e colonial-office, to be pr aying for this privi lege and that favour.--( Hear, hear.) Nothing remained but to adopt a better system of managernest, a more economical application of labour, and an improved system of cultivation.— ( Hear.) Lord Elgin, the Governor-General, had stated that the adoption even of such a primitive machine as the plough would make a difference of fifty per cent in the amount of production. —( Hear. hear.) Yet they were still to be told that there was nothing to be done for the West India colonies except through prntectien anti monopoly. Where was the use of an abundant supply of manual labour, if that labour was not made productive by the nee of mach very ? It was the argument of those a-4 undertook to regulate the how, of labour in the msnufseturieis districts, that if they could not obtain the use of manual labour for so long a period as they had been eccustoteed to do. they must make up for it by an inereased use of machinery. The English manufacturers were ensb!rd to in .intain their o sition in the market. of Europe. not by the eaten• of they manual labour, hut because they brought machinery to the aid of labour, so as to make that labour more productive. That they must do in the West Indies—( Heir, hear)—and 1 e had observed in the Jamaica journals a very sensible speech of a Captain Dillon, who had endeavoured to inculcate into the minds of his fellow-colonists the doctrine that it would be more advisable for them to expend the colonial revenue in purchas ing steam-engines and machinery from England, than in en deavouring to promote the immigration of fresh labourers. He believed that that was the mo,t sensible course that the co lonists could adopt.—( Hear, hear.) For the last three (lento.. ries there had not been the slightest improvement in the culti vation of sugar in the colonies. He believed that the steam-en gine would be found to be a most beneficial aid to labour in the West India colonists—( Hear, hear)—for at present they adopted precisely the same system of cultivation which they had adopted three centuries ago, when the slave-trade was in existence.—( Hear. ) He was afraid that the West Indians were not inclined to adopt the principle of the British manu facturers, and to apply machinery for the purpose of making labour more productive.—( Hear, hear.) He hod lately seen an excellent article on this subject in a colonial paper of great merit and influence—the West Indian, in which the editor said that. it was the duty of the West India colonists to devote their attention to the introduction of machinery for the purpose of tliedering labour more productive. This was d prin ciple which the West India colonists too much neglected. To show how averse the West India proprietors were to make their industry productive. he would mention one fact. A rail ' way had been projected between Kingston and Spanish- town. It was well known that a great portion of the labourers of the West Indies were employed in transporting—in conveying pro. duce from one place to another. When the railway to which he had referred was proposed, not a single gentleman who had been protected, who said that protection stimulated individuals, not one gave their countenance to the proposal for the rail way. Who were the parties who took up the proposition, and who found funds for making the railway ? They were persons who had no confidence in protection, but who looked forward to the adoption of free trade. Who looked forward to exposing the West India proprietors to a free competition with the produce of the world—those were the parties who had found the money to make the railway from Kingston to Spanish-town. Why, if the West India proprietors had faith in their principles, they would have come forward to support this railway. Perhaps they believed that protection was about to cease, then why not give it up at once, instead of keeping trade and manufactures in a state of suspense and anxiety? But he believed that the West India proprietors were enervated by protection. Ile believed that the only reason that this project was not adopted by colonial proprietors, but left so free traders to accomplish, was, that they were enervated by monopoly. He thought this was a most important fact, and one that oueht not to he for gotten. There was nothing which told so much with Members of Parliament and the Britiils public as plain and stubborn facts ; and he thought, front the facts he had stated, the pub -1 e would see that there were some grounds for the assertion which had been made on that side of the House, that monopoly had enervated the West India proprietors, and it required but the solid principles of competition to give them prosperity. Now, he would not dwell longer upon this branch of the ques tion, because if the position he maintained werea good one, fur ther areument would be unnecessary, and the House would be convinced that the importers in this country had as good a rieht to every advantage in this trade as the growers in the Wt st Indies. His plan he rested on the broad basis of justice, and he would say that this House could n t interfere will any show of justice with this trade or continue this protective system. He would contend fur it that the Government should withdraw this protection, in order to do equal justice to all her Majesty's subjects. But he knew that this doctrine was not at all pa latable to many Members of that House, although there did not appear upon the face of it an act of injustice to the free . trader of this country. But let him take a short view of the case. lie would ask, did they increase the imp irt a of this country by this continual protection to the West Indies ? He should limit himself to tee West Indies, because the late Pre sident of the Board of Trade, in answer to the Honourable Member for Taunton, on the Brszilian question, said that his plan of protection was not intended for the Mau ritius or for British India, but for the West Indies, therefore he would confine his argument to the West Indies, and he would ask have the imports increased ? Ile would take the period previous to the emancipation of the slaves, and he would contend for it that the production was de creasing for many years previous to 1834, when the emancipation intik place. It appeared, then, that imports from the West Indies had been gradually &crew,. ing though the growers hail all the advantages of the monopoly and slave-labour.—( Hear, hear. ) For it must not be forgotten that these protective duties were enacted when they were owners of slaves themselves, and when their colonists were em players of slave-labour ; it must not be forgotten that these pro tective duties did not originate from the new theory or policy that had been laid down, that they were to consult moral and philanthropic considerations when regulating their taxes and du ins. Ile repeated that these duties were enacted when they were *lave owners themselves; and at that time, when the West India colonies had all the advantages they then possessed, their imports were gradually falling off. And what had been the mime since? Notwithstanding the vast increase in the po pulation, notwithstanding the great augmentation in the de mand for sugar, in order to insure the comfort of the working classes, the imports had been nearly stationary. It might have varied from year to year, but he be lieved he was correct in stating that the quantity im ported in 1834, the very year in which they emancipated their slaves, was greater than in the year 1844, or in the last year in which the account was made up. He believed the Right Hun. Gentleman, the first Minister of the Crown, stated there had been no material increase in the import of sugar. When they considered the vast increase in the popu lition, what a deficiency there must be when they divided that limited supply among the greater number of persons, and how ranch smaler a share fell to the poorer classes of the commu nity ? Those who were in the enjoyment of independent and comfortable incomes would not diminish their consumption of sugar, but in the division of a smaller quantity among a greater number, depend on it the comforts of the working classes must be materially diminished. How unreasonable was it to doubt that a great evil was inflicted on the community, by confining the supply of sugar to their colonies alone? And with the exception of a small quantity, the whole that was consumed last year was supplied from the Colonies. But the consumption of this country was mainly confined to the produce of our own colonies. According to the foreign Price Currents, the average price of sugar on the Continent was 21s. per cwt., whilst in this country it was 345., making a difference of 13s. per cwt. The quantity of sugar consumed here was 207,000 tons per annum. But the difference of 13s. per cwt. made a difference of 13/. per too, and that upon 207,00 J tons amounted to 2,600.000/.—( Hear.) So that the sugar consumed in,this country last year cost 2,600,000/. more than the same quantity would have cost if purchased on the Continent.—( Hear, hear. ) Did they call this legislating for the poorer classes ?—(lleer. ) Was this acting in accordance with the recommendation of the Queen in her speech from the throne, that they should consider the wants of the agricultural labourers and the poorer classes ?—( Hear.) Did they uphold the doettine that the British artisan must pay 13/. per ton ueon his sugar because we had large colonial posses sions in the West Indian Islands ? He thought they were mocking the sufferings of the working classes, and were humi hating themselves in the eyes of the world.—( Hear.) Th , y were always professing sympathy with the working classes, and talking of cutting down the public expenditure, and other wise doing everything to relieve the tax-payers in this country ; arid then upon a vague statement that certain abstract propo sitions could not be practically applied, they exposed them selves to the charge of mocking the miseries of the people, whom they professed to be anxious to relieve.—( hear, hear. ) He would contend that protection had not been of the slightest benefit to the manufacturers. Why the exports to the Wes, Indies were greater twenty years ago than they were now. In 1794 the exports to the West Indies were £3,632,7:32 In 1x04...... 4.281,7.i5 In 1829 ...... ......... ... 3,61 , 2,000 In 1842 2,391,425 In 1843... If they compared the exports of 1804 and those in 1843, it would appear that while they were over 4,0, 0.000/. in the for mer year, they were otsly upwards of 2,000,000/. in the latter. —( Hear, hear.) What benefit, then, was protection to them ? Why should they pay more to the West Indian, when he did not pay more for his bale of cotton in Manchester than the Brazilian ? (Cries of " Hear, hear,") He asked whether he had not made out his case ? He had shown that this tax was not for the benefit of the revenue, for whilst they were inflicting a grievous burden on the con sumers, only a portion of the tax went into the public ex chequer, and another portion into the pockets of individuals; therefore that could not be said to be for the revenue which, in point of fact, defrauded the revenue. He had shown it was not. for the benefit of our import trade, because it had by no means increased under it. He had shown them it was not for the advantage of our export trade, because our trade with the colonies had been a stationary trade, and had shown no dispo sition to favourably influence production. lie had shown them it was not fir consistency, because the Right Hon. Baronet had, a few evenings ago, proposed to admit some foreign and colonial produce on the same terms. He had, in short, shown them that the present system was at sari mce with sound prin ciples—principles admitted and recognised by the first Minister of the Crown, which had received the sanction of the House of Commons, and which were laid down by the most philosophic statesmen and the ablest and most practical political econo mists. It was an arbitrary taxation imposed upon the people of this country by the mere force of numbers in that House, and for which they received no adequate return—no practical explanation.—(Cries of " Hear hear.") Such was the position which he was entitled to take on this question, unless it could be proved that his arguments were fallacious. And if his reasons were fallacious—if he had asserted anything—if he had assumed anything which he was not en titled to assume—if he had been in any way misled—he called upon his opponents for a refutation.—( Hear, hear.) But, as a Member of Parliament, representing a large and important manufacturing district, a great body of the industrious classes, he was entitled to ask them, if they failed in this refutation, to ' desist from this unwise system of legislation.--( Hear, and cheers.) And he would be further entitled to ask them to de sist at once, because a more appropriate time than the present could not be desired.—( Hear, hear.) The Government were bound by their ordinary supporters, and whether the Adminis trationgoßr,ae.rnaotni mind ti onweresndho should, Whig i ui g hngoth o ew r tr ete l ovs ' et o csr r . ;_ :at t e t at Is e li y de rte, accordinghrh t he trammels aalikert Theheset r d a oi restrained eai party, aei byirs Right yo, t Hf h a o ohn s ni d e s. he ' though he might find himself deserted in bringing forward a great and permanent plan for the final settlement of the sugar question, he would be applauded by the virtue and intelligence of the coun try. He was unwilling to inflict any injustice on the West India interests. If his proposal had the slightest tendency to , wards inflicting any injustice on West India proprietors, he declared he would not have brought it forward ; but because he believed that the interests of the producers, the interests of the consumer., the interests of the merchants, of the revenue, of all classes, would be benefited by the total abolition of these t differential duties, he brought forward his motion. They had been told that foreign eountries were more restrictive than Great Britain, and that this would be a greater sacrifice—at all events, the sacrifice of but the few for the many, and they would do what foreigners had not done. There might be some truth in that ; but whatever foreigners were doing, the light had broken in upon us, and it was a miserable argument to say that, because some narrow-minded foreign Governments advocated restriction, that this great commercial country should be in fluenced by their example.—( Hear, hear. ) But had they not some examples of the contrary among foreigners? Take the ease of the Dutch Government. At the twesent moment the Dutch Government were admitting sugar and coffee, the pro duce of Java, on the same terms as they admitted the produee of Brazil anti Cuba. And what was the practical result of this fair competition ? That the sugar produced by flee labour in Java w t.s gradeally increasing during a long period of years. under Ale influence if competition, and that, from 1826 t 0183.1, it had increased from 29,227 tons to 1,0.10,eG0 tons, aithough it was exposed to full competition with the sugar of Brazil and of Cuba.—(l - lear, ,hear.) That was a case which might satisfy them that free-labour sugar could compete with slave grown. He wished to see the emancipation of the: slaves carried out in all parts of the world; and the Government shonid net t.aniei .n the dangerous doctriee that free nisn could not produce a: well .:d as much as •-1 Hear. hear.) Ile thanked the Ilou e f a the patier.eit wit's obi: b 'bey had herd him, and concluded by move g Tolle e et, amend were :—" That no arrangement oc the sugar 'kyle , will he iatitft•c'crl and pertnanete .chick etees not ei,eive an equalisa. tier! of , or v on 'eriege and col ietel sugar " Mr. EWA RT complonett•ed , he Hen. Ge , tivrnO on the secret: he h made. and thought the subject c.,u'd reit have been entrust, dto abler hinds. free-trade prlnci e les w e re e yes ) . d a y peegres:ing, and the fact ought to he remembered that, whilst or foreign trade va , incr. asittg. the colonial trade was statienary. l'he Ueited Stars c otried on twic a , er,at trade with Cuba as this country, in conserpienite of these re strictions. The trade with South America and Chins ought to be now im.netise ; but the large duty en tea crippled our commerce with China, whilst those wretched distinctions be tween slave and free-grown sugar, almost annihilated one great department of trade with South America. The great eman cipator of slavery was commerce; anti the merchant , of L•ver pool had done more to abolish slavery on the coast of southern Africa. by their trading than the cruisers and war vessels who were employed there. Nothing could more effectually call out the energies and develop the resources of the West Indies than competition. Since the first sound of rivalry was heard, their resources had undergone greater development and improve ment than for years previously. A more intricate and com plicated scheme than that proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet could not well be devised, and the Goverewnent would find it neeesslry to leg.slate in a bold and comprehensive manner on Mae subject. The present scheme could not have proceeded from the master-mind of the Right Hon. Baronet, he rather thought it was the proposal of the Right Hen. the Chancellor of the Exchequer. If this duty could not be sacrificed, which he believed it could without a loss to the revenue, he would prefer an increase of the property-tax to its continuance. The present arrangement would not suppress the slave-trade—would not advance the interests of the West Indian colonists—did not settle the question, but left it in the same :tate of perpetual agitation. Discriminating duty was a bad i.rinciple, and its effects told injuriously in every possible manner. An ad valorem duty had proved highly injurious to commerce. In flueeced by these reasons, he could have no hesitation in seconding the motion of the Hon. Member for Manchester. Mr. JAMES—As a Wert India proprietor he, last session, made an appeal to the justice and sympathy of the House on behalf of the distressed interest he represented, and he was happy to find now that that appeal had nut been made in vain. —( lieu.) And he now felt great. pleasure in offering his most respectful thanks to the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government, for the relief that he felt it con sistent with his public duty to offer to the West India pro prietors.—( Hear.) Whether that relief would be sufficient to enable those proprietors to cultivate their estates to any profitable accoun•, he would not say ; but it would et least prevent heavy losses to those men who kept their estates in cultivation in the h ape of better time s.—( Hear.) With regard to Ida Hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, he (Mr. James) would say he gave him credit for the best intentions in bring ing forward this motion, and felt convinced that his only object was doing good to the public by trying to get them cheap sups ; but it occurred to him (Mr. James), that the Hon. Member had not been very particular as to the means by which he proposed to effect this object.—( A laugh.) Now, he begged to remind tbe lion. Member, that if the proposition of the Government be carried, it would give sugar to the consumer at about l is, 3d. per cwt. less than they hail it now. But if the Government took away the present existing protection, he could assure the Hon. Member and that. House that the effect would be to increase to a greater extent than eeer, all the tortures and horrors of the slave trade. The Hon. Member had said, he would not now enter upon any discussion of the slave-trade ; but he (Mr. James) would not see how that could be avoided ; it was a most im portant feature in the discussion; and not to allude to it would he like leaving out the part of Hamlet. The Hon. Member had spoken of the relief of 2,300,000/. that the growers would receive; he (fir. James) hoped they would ; but he feared it was very unlikely. As to what the Hon. Member had said about ab'entee proprietors, he (Mr. James) agreed with him, that estates were much better managed where the proprietors resided on theta ; but he could scarcely be called one, as his son was constantly resident on his estate.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") But even so, if they were all resident pro riet. re, still, without the relief proposed by the Right Hon Baronet oporesitss, they could not cultivate their estates without loss. The Ho, Nletnber had spoken of the cost of produce ; now be would put a case. There were many manufacturers in :Manchester who paid thousands of pounds per week in giving employment to labourers ; but what. would the Hon. Member think of allowing into competition with those mer chants other merchant: who paid nothing at all for such labour? --( Hear, hear. ) Those manufacturers of Manchester pro duced their goods by using the whip on their horses— An lION. IVIENIFIER—As the West India proprietors did on their slaves. Mr. JANIES—Yes, he admitted that such had been the practice; hut if this protection were withdrawn, the slave trade would become worse than ever ; but he felt aisured that there was too touch justice and fair dealing to be had in that Hou,e to let him imagine for a moment that it would sanction the proposition of the Hon. Member, which lie had almost said would be an iniquitous proceeding, but it certainly would be a most unjust one. It was true that the West India pro prietors had had compensation for the emancipation of their slaves ; but they had had none for their lands ; and everybody knew that land without labour would he of no more u , e to the proprietor, than would the mills of Manchester be, if the use of machinery was prohibited ?—( Hear.) Really this was a ques tion so plain that the injustice of the Hon. Member's proposi tion was such, that he could hardly speak of it with patience.— ( A laugh.) Me lion. Member had spoken of the cost of producing sugar ; now he (Mr. James) begged to say that the cost of producing a hogshead of sugar in Jamaica was double that of Cuba and the Braeils ; and, therefore, if the West India proprietors were to be put in competition with those,!the result would be their utter ruin. Those were the reasons that com pelled him to say he should support the motion of the Right lion. Baronet. Mr. RICARDO—If he felt disposed to follow the example of the Hon. Member who had just sat down, he, too, could establish a grievance, by complaining of the hardships his con stituents would labour under by the proposed removal of the duties on certain articles of manufacture which it had been stated would be proposed this session by the Right Honourable Baronet opposite. This grievance would be particularly felt by permitting Fraoce to compete with his constituents in the articles of coal, clay, and iron -stone.—( Hear, hear.) But his constituents would not complain of it ; they would rather re• main silent on the subject, and rely on their own industry and resources to meet the effect of this competition.—( Hear, hear.) But, he would ask, why should this protection be taken from so extensive a branch of the home trade, and be still continued to those West India merchants ?—( Hear. ) He really could not see why they should be made an exception to all these commercial arrangements.—( Hear, hear.) There had been no temporising or delay in reference to East India cotton when it was proposed to abolish the duty on the raw ma terial—( Hear )—and, therefore, he would say, that if even there was an amendment proposed to that House, which, more than another, warranted the use of strong language, it was that which had been proposed by the llon. Member for Manchester to the resolution of the Hon. Baronet opposite.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Ricardo) had heard a great deal about differential duties ; and he found by the Right Hon. Baronet's proposition that there were no fewer than nineteen different duties proposed upon sugar; but he (Mr. Ricardo) would defy the Hon. Ba ronet, or any other Member of that House, to state what those differences were—where the brown-clay sugar began, and the white-clay ended.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then read extracts from some letters he had received on this subject, in one of which the writer said it would be impossible for the Government officers here to distinguish between elayed and unclaved sugar ; and in the other It was stated that if the 'proposed measure of the British Minister were carried, every bag of sugar, to the amount of 700,000 in each year, should be stspped and an officer be prepared to apply a test to it.—( Hear, hear. ) He then continued by saying, it had been said that great sacrifices had been made by the West India proprietors ; now, it appeared to him that much greater sacrifices had been mad* by the people of England, because the price of sugar in bond in this country was 345., while on the Continent it Was o nly 20e., thereby showing that. the people of England sacrificed 14s. per cwt. on this article alone, by the present " protec t ve" sys em, as it had been called.—( Hear, hear.) In fact, greater sacrifices were made by the English consumers under :he new system than under the old.—( Hear, hear.) It would be much better for the Right Hon. Baronet, instead of coming down to that House and asking them to continue the income tax, to announce his intention of 'educing the duty on suaars. It would riot involve a greater loss than 4 00 ',OOO/ , hut the increased consumption in the commodity would not only amply supply the deficiency, but enable the Right lion. Baronet to dispense altogether with the income-tax.—( Hear. ) No doubt, if the Right Honourable Baronet were to adopt this course, he would have considerable grumbling from Hun. Gentlemen behind him, anti perhaps angry speeches from lion. Gentlemen on both sides, but let him depend for support upon the publie, a ho alone could maintain him in the position he at present held.—(Cheers.) He did hope the West India proprietors would see the necessity of yielding in time, and trusting like the English manufacturers to their own resources. and thus talsify the absurd system of protection. Let them yield now in the time of prosperity what, sooner or later, the necessities of the people would snatch Irons their hands. Sir GEORGE CLERK said the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had inveighed a rood deal against the pro tection afforded to our colonies. Now, he should like to know what sort of a reception the Hon. Member would receive if he were to go down to Stoke-upon-Trent, and propose to his constituency the abolition of the protective duties afforded to the manufacturers of this country.—( Hear, hear.) The questions of the reductions in cotton anti other duties must be considered on their own grounds, and taken separately; and upon the same principle they ought to discuss the protection afforded to certain branches of trade. They ought to look to the particular situation of the West India colonists, and to see whether it was net advisable that protection should be con tinued to them. It certainly was necessary to continue pro tection to this great interest, because it not only formed a large market for our manufactures, but a very considerable capital was invested in it. He would admit to the Hon. Gentleman that the protective system might be carried too tar. It would be unwise to attempt to bolster up manufacturers with protec• Lion, which was not, naturally speaking, in keeping with the circumstances of the country. But it became a very different thing when they established duties to protect the domestic in terests of the country. It by no means followed either, that protection should be given to every article in the same degree, and he could, therefore, perfectly understand that some interests would derive little or no advantage from an excessive protection. Previous to the passing of the Emancipation Act the West India colonies were enabled to produce not only sufficient sugar to supply this country, but they not unfre• quently exported large quantities to other countries. In 1839, however, the produce of sugar fell off two millions eight hun dred thousand pounds, owing to the emancipation of the native labourers ; and until the year 1842, the produce of the West India colonies was reduced to its minimum. He believed that the quantity of sugar which would be sent over from the West India islands this year would show a very considerable increase upon the supply of former years. He would ask the House and Hon. Members opposite whether, after having commenced a great experiment in 1838. the success of which had since ex ceeded every expectation, it was advisable or politic now to abolish that protection, at a moment when the sugar planters of our colonies were on the eve of overcoming those difficulties which had resulted from the Emancipation Act ?—( Cheers. ) He was aware that there were a certain number of gentlemen in that House extreme advocates of free trade ; but he was aware, from the result of a similar motion proposed in 1843, that some of them were not prepared to go the extreme length of declaring that the differential duties offered to our West India islands should be at once abolished. Nor did he think, from the appearance of the House, the Hon. Member for Manchester had reason to hope that he would be supported by the Noble Lord the Member for the City of Lon don, and the other Members that usually voted with him. The Hon. Member for Manchester had stated that it made no dif ference to the consumer whether the duty was 15s. or 30a• ; but he (Sir George Clerk), would be glad to know if the inhabitants of Manchester or Stoke-upon-Trent were of the same opinion. fur it was the first time that he had heard that there was no difference between 15s. and 30s. The lion Mem ber for Manchester had wished to represent that the evil of the \Vest Indies was, that they were giving low wages, and that no inducements were held out to the emancipatedeegro to remain upon his native soil. Another evil was , , that they bed an antii.athy to any new mode of cultivation, oss. he (tair Clerk) had alwars understood that the reverse was the case, snit he was at a loss ro under-tand from what quarter the I-! oa . Member received his information. At present the negro received 2s. per day, instead of m formerly Os. g; 7l per week i and the complaint la-I 1 •ther isiou. that too hish wage ha t ' !I ~ l ban tics, on argon i t: t' e ;sr , ,efe,.,„1., .f „ No; ing, a i t ' ho I tstere sssr say West tntia goan'emen ip the 110 eV oe ., halt the m sioi tIITI. 10 p seas .asee tbt.itt ain the V , '"'‘ i sst ae they mit-t has-, been al-, •urt.ri•erl Ti) have Ilea d 'lle more lion. Gstitleit.an ilsci •re ti•a• thy i•ught to be in a r e ,, flourishing p•isitain •ow titan they were in former t l , ° _„ D t Vs'estevsr th-. lien. Ment'ter might ,ilillk, there was l e il:"_.,, but that of late the bills (hewn upon West India proprit!°.ii; had greatly exeeedsd in amount the produce of l' i l i l , estates. But lie believed in the present year. fr e 4 , information he had rece i ve d, th a t the •ui r would ',be much mire superior to w h a t i s h a d b e et, in form' t'e'ar ber the planter was likely t o d er i ve a profit. The lion. M b oa for Stoke•upon-Trent s a id the condition of the West ,1,10 proprietors was bec om i ng worse arid worse every day ; an „0• beet thing they could do, therefore, was to abandon theloo, tection altogether. N ow , h e s h ou ld like to ask the ate Itlemillor for Manchester, and the Hon. Member for 0 upon- t rent, what would b e th e resu lt if such a course adopted ? Why Cub a wou ld h ave a monopoly in th e n ise market; and the British co l on i es , w hi c h formed an ex 4, -market for the manufa c tu rers o f thi s co untry, would bent i iv t to But this was not all; they would hold out an en couragear. lo t slavery, and all the e ff or t s w hi c h h a d been made for til d r ere j six years to destroy this a b om i na bl e traffic would be r ‘ e e r el eete utterly useless. Now, he would ask flon• I%i of get' whether it was wi se or p o liti c , for the sake , ~,, ta , ting sugar a littl e c h ea p er , th e y would den l i' e l e ies• important an interest as our West India ° a las Thiless they continued a protection to the West Indio io ta nies, they would throw a m o n o p o ly o f the supply of °T a r bell the hands of the growers of Cuba and Braeil. It eras col"' to turn round oe the West Indies, and say that ithef'or their, nies had always been a drag up on this country, win''' . ea r oa• , monopoly, was obliged t o pay two or three million s ssy oset t of the packets of the artisans and labouring population °m o w sarily. It would be infinitely better to say, as the 1 1 °T seo tage ber for Bath had maintained, that it would be to the adds p o re of this country if the whole of the West India isle sr , w ar blotted from the map of the wor ld. He was certain t" isewe not the opinion of that Hous e w ith regard to colonialjat the sions.—( Year, hear. ) The Hon. Gentleman talke d a u h a e d $lO, export trade of this count r y. Mat Sir G. Clerk) w Isla Right Hon. Member would l oo n a t th e returns an ,is or before them, and see how large a proportion of the fil e i s co' fifty-eight millions of their exports went annually to t,, e ,the lonia' possessinns—( Hear, hear ) including the East Inr o ' e i e s , West Indies, anti their North American ° slat her ( Hear, hear.) Ile thought the Honourable ° e eri , would find that one-fifth of their whole 04° 111 0 11g / taken by the colonies.—( Hear, hear.) And let them re , 11 01 that this was a trade secured to them—a trade that with act i o ns liable to any interruptions by misunderstandings wit n iac tiell i nations, from jealousies on their part, exhibited in th e !, - ,1 on b s '' of foreign tariffs ;—( Hear, hear)—it was a trade ear rt rec oliey and with the subjects of this country, and they Mast to whist t he! that it was by the possession of that colonial e mpire t e sielt were alone enabled to secure that commercial Instil w hie b , was the foundation of their magnificent navy , As an • e/ ' l l enabled them to keep that navy in such a state of avert 10 to maintain their maritime supremacy. No nation t , ' s ob! not the advantage of holding distant possessions woulateeetcoo, able to keep up a naval marine on the scale and eile T n oes a i made our navy so efficient a defence of the empire. -` ea se" the West India colonies being such a drag and income, r e d fel, this country as to induce them to wish to see them bt° lo woo; the map of the world, he contended that the loss of theef track be an injury to this country, not confined to the los! iie os o ' o with those islands, to the amount of two or three to" n itill' nually, bat that less would st r ik e a bl ow aga i ns t their ra r s eeo see t t power and supremacy f r om w hi c h th e na ti on could neve r hat 'be st Now, the Hon. Member for Manchester had seated t d t l 3, imports from the West Indies had fallen oft a ec reoi c o their exports to the West Indies had no t o f r es t But the Hon. Member had taken a Ye 4 T f , - } t he colonial prosperity, and compared it wi t " ,ill . se of remarkable depression. They had legislated , ees oft_, consequences of that legislation had been that the protflogosPor West India Islands had fallen off f rom 200,000 tons e spor tt i se nually to 100,000 tons; and it could n o t be but thei o"se this country to those colonies m us t h av e fallen off v l'helth' i y principles the Hon. Gentlemen opposite thetoselve: colt',, colonies could only give for the exports of tV t be f r it the articles they themselves produced; and 1 boll' ed duce of the West Indies had diminished onenesscliiirts was only remarkable that the exp or t s of our i n t. a les get, is t• goods consumed there had not fallen off its a mu", es - teti', o 3 port ion.—( Hear, 'liar.) But he (Sir G. Clerk) ` r d i t iori. t er in proportion as the West Indies improved in e en te d ee,g o s , were better supplied with labour, or the e manciP s te cu lt rot themselves applied more diligently and regularly to I,_ 0 . 0 il .o thin of the estates, they should see a great increase lonoioePsio duce of those islands. and as a consequence, an impr Tbe 'i r to the export of manufactures from this country'sbioefi,ece causes had operated against the introduction of Ma' t e e ee . ,..,l ite the colonies to the same extent that would ha," so ol'r to under other circumstances. The Hon. Goill' em c epan - er had said 'hat the West Indian proprietors had no ir i l uee O v a; improve the process of sugar making, so as to rev ' t bad t he" pense of the manufacture ; he said that no atteol oa rl 0 1 made to introduce machinery, and he would have in ar d of ;, s t , to believe that the steam-engine had never been lie t eirti,l i e he (Sir G. Clerk) rather thought that as long V e it loy e fo• ago machinery was extensively used in the '.' e t eSt i oste ( Hear, hear)—and he had visited a very eate n , '' f o ltieh re tie In tory on the ether side of Westminster-bridge, salt of s e at)' was not only one, but a whole establishrient lesr,iiiiest) engines prepared for the West Indian market. - 4 H e ar, „ s on' There was a total want of capital in the islan A d l i etntl i aoirngs ; e i f: s hit el lii i —and that fact must have a considerable influeneeear for P o d dition. Yet he believed, though the Hon. fries hod spoken of their being in a state of by monopoly and a want of competition— tha t heir 4' West India proprietors, notwithstanding , t heir ,i ' did not pay their outgoings, were, out " could boll tal, sending out every improvement tharrotroso_oil made, in, he might almost call it, the to sr: e to:: that, in time, those improvements might le a " msoc'', lc', of prosperity. He wished the Hon. Member for sto ul:! 00 0 ' who seemed so familiar with Mr. Porter's book , j o r i l sill at what that gentleman stated with respect to th t s hol e t il l improvements, and he would find that there w as te sea,,,io, branch of the manufacture for which patents were . 4 0; 4 0! this country, that were not adopt e d by persons all'ererae'reoot prove their estates. They mi g ht no t have th a 'a tiv , I tIA capital which, it seemed, oppressed M an chester ° es ti, s sool, so much that it had gone over to the W es t Indio!' e o f r'' ell Hon. Member had stated, had constructed a I : i s t 1' 1° ,4 0 between Spanish Town and Kingston ; but t h at th e extended a distance of ten or twelve miles, so 1 ,,,. s " e co' r er of money had not been so considerable. in- ba t bell e !, had not invested money in that li ne ' be h'', haps the y . thought their capital might st ioo Clyr ft employed in enlarging and extending the cultic pas s flo , : r sugar, and the produce of the cane. The Flon' an d t b s. , ,i Cumberland, the Hon. Member for Dumfries, disett• f yjell, Itlemjiter for Stoke-upon-Trent, had gone into s oot. ol b the plan which it was the intention of his Righ t Eo o° I t' ll the Chancellor of the Exchequer to submit , ' 5 ; coni tre ple o, House should agree to the motion for going into it es ~,t lo t , of Supply. But, in the first place, he thoug ht , o f t" r tee',:S unfair to attempt to discuss detached polti, e t u be opll s eee et until his Right Hon. Friend should have hod if d e pee de se e „ of stating it fully, and showing the bearing in' ao t O h , srh - 0 one part of that plan upon the other. He would „y Of t 00,1 to anticipate any of those details, by answering as - a ' as il)n bre I se s j , ments of the Hon. Metnbers for Stoke-upon-Tremtbe N O , l O e i nor would it be fair to go into the discussion)oootice r les ite ..o the Member for the City of London had given a t he iT o rcl" nesday) during that Noble Lord's absence, an ,able ' ill many of the Hon. Members by whom the ' f icia k supported. e n) er e Mr. HAWES (pointing to the vacant plac e ' (Ile on of the Treasury bench )—They are absent too. eat lete s peth re , Mr. G. CLERK had no doubt the a bsent gfor It a l y si t i l e very ably represented by the Hon. Member, be sl a tt e d (Hear, hear, and a laugh)—but he thoughl a ele be C O with him that, in the absence of the o .. i pld lio n os Member for the City of London, it,. disco' hic h , ei , improper to anticipate any part of thy , to ; !s loe sl e ete the two important points with reaper ' for i w ha t iv . Noble Lord had put a notice on the books r ight 0e 0 46 Under the circumstances, therefore, he had l e iloo- ti to l o s to go into any answer to the statements of t hey rela te c ialli 0 1,r men opposite on the present occasion. a , t ore oP e w hof i e j he de-ails of his Right Hon. Friend's plan , 111 Tre n t 's con' Ol e , speech of the Hon. Member for Stoke-uPOn; wh ich to n e ol servations went minutely into those dela" ' o i o rlY oleo" I V discussed with advantage only „ he , re r tg ..ti t ee 1 1 .! v e . ti be House. He would not trespass any fill the " it ha' eico'r,if h a t e lf $ the 11.-us-. He had endeavoured to show l, s, an sir e / policy which this country had ever actiql en, op, fo e b ot io° o o trusted, it would always continue to a' s of t h • et e ri ach amount of protection to the domestic ind .7 " t o r s ite 0 105 b e t i,e o ( 'Tear.) However Hon. Gentlemen oPEL h t e h it, 0 1‘ _ e against protection and the principles on n ee , sti n e / tb, e lo ste however they might select souse extreme ,_;!..tance,lo ell st op if they would attempt the cultivation, for."le soils „soneel plant, or some other production to which tnr o ' f i t the e r of sob were not adapted, by giving the growers. ~ , boe s t s ,t to of high duties on the foreign importe 01;4 l o olt ho ii os i' l , might take such an extreme case, th Y . .04 at , t b 0; 4 by itself, and then he thought that in th,e s ' u t vera tae ,le, he eot i Ilan. Friend the head of her Majesty's ti tive P ritle'l l e tt r ell ls i he was prepared to maintain the prate!' __ c earge_ i ler y , es e . 4 . carefully looked into the amount of ttuT ,,rd ipg e t the 1 .0 tlS° . article of general use, with the view ofau e stiel e " a a joll b : s t th ,i ' s tion of those duties which would give the ~b ast 1 j t 4 and cheapest price to the censumers, .vr" coas itte': 0 0 4 1 rfeetlY coca in 01, 4 trade of the country. He was Pe i pro t o 1 sudden withdrawal of the fair a mount 0 th e s e ly of as much injury as the continuaneeuf ei ono r l: og e l li o i o ot o of any of the old and exploded system' s! . hots!' c onc e a lb t existed a century ago, for the purpose."" .ay' 30 0 , fri e ,oo o . branch of manufacture. He could o ,i n iAt flo olie bt to th: that he believed, Chancellor of the Exchequer was Prc ece o f Ser er rw te fel, when the plan of hi. duce e d, he or ing . th , l o a 'Tit' for th e 'th (3 O r a proposition that would have the en eb cheat le st t tP, people of this country sugar, at . t at, ue o t ii ., t., they had ever been able to purchase it be do _ the r .10 ao u or thirty years, and that this woof eag ar, s !' ses , o.l ' . i t iost, slightest haustire to the produce ~s__ Posed wl c w ons o V of isle West Indian Colonies, or East Indian ' , c rea uen ce ergi s te lieved on the other hand, that the t ,s __„ oase s ( ' d eti tt , e ? this country, which would be the n ece.: . ',.. l „ t i u s;_ st C l ho _ ig" he P e 0 i that t hel oiDe h s r t n thO reduction in price, would give a fr esh " 1 " the West Indian proprietors and /on iea, t en ii to ~re o 0 UVP , would be brought back to the . s a a b . e . ,.. is c o ce , tP i! on an increased production in ttahtee theyeo ts _ 1 to 0 ootry,ei years ago, and that they would g . il: peop le ot c " ugo ta sin tilL t e se ,,?h , a l ietio re n. g . i‘ogli ese t v t ;/ , whole of the sugar consumed by tne the amount of 500 might see the time when sat i s f a ction ois i f f ier, s t oet ancient prosperity, and to the . the esP ° ooo,° e f iso l t ea might see rds o f , ta the c e d o t fiir Manchester, they increase from 2,000,000/. to p ; fuw:uald be Or the r e be s le i s st ,000 ewts.olelJnisdrarntdh, same time that a great r elief hiring it with ; finitely the .A of sugar in this country by t P , at a price innitndpribeog s4l poorest labourer in the counry to nur ehate erolli d I ti e, at which he had ever been able_ supply t hat rece ss . oaf; tir, twenty or thirty years. ' hto equo . fot . ast of for would, he hoped, be )Honourablee Me a ne nt e ff e e in e gitig re cd of this article, now becor_nrheeelo7t a P rinl i e tbe i tt°'v sne he' il i° expectations of the the P erm n o :ere h is f t h i; e ihs ° , ° ,l He looked upon this asGovernment , re su•- c io, - o w measures her Majesty's be practical t o., ~ .a t 0 , .. 0 ite• '' 0 P OP ! lotion of the linn. Gentlem an ras , the table'.ld " t ee to I observation ac , ? It w ; fist di 4 here made some m otion • es •a•n- t ee, s p. ? ward. Now, let them lookat! oppos ) s, to we, public of this ; c and r e teill ° to t $- the feeling of the i quest.on, held e s ys ttt ! els ith : t .C. , be the practical result of that , otio try ~ po se f on o f India proprietors n Year' ag°Submit loses- to a ° t oe which ceased to exist many y popular odium on arcotunt of havi n g uP fle thau c i fiane' %t ell( ja znay ce j Ad d "° i' e rf, had exposed them to sevewhol heard hiran„ccd withit th e Y On unfair; those proprietor of which the gentlemen slit forward con „_,,_ ae sse rii isi tiO In every question brDus, to vo hlip 0 . 0 1 '2;' l e p . rot lie 12 1 ; 0 , . ject, they were held up !!) patio their_ l'' b o pesi er for a i s i now to they were abet' ircurottimea h metob, 0 for i rhead.osl:d,to ~ r t tit, 0 oil, fiscated I Under these e t • f the " cm ' s olutt o I t li r origin I . ..L: 3 V i ar h o 'lls ti .. ,t. for toel:0i i i i i9 C 4.1 0 Oat. 1 . 4 # an d Aleato• ather Ail , to o is cheater, ouldtobtutsuwpopuolrdt t a h g e re m e o w l i o t n h ° the • ' al re into a , Co of a_.) Mr. C. P. • d the lue►per Soft he , o to to ''., Plied to his' lion. Frier! test the Riht liOn i s [lousepew J ell. ' lo' order to satisfy / faiself and the 9 _•to g ° ea f his 1 7 . 1 1 , • This test wa tcr.) t° d ° Isa el j us teo of hi , °pinto. • i stiturrits—(' Hear, bear, constituents, as. trines of free ttade or 11 • en d augh ap prove d s 0 0 eSt:l4ai.hdohhead",jstort ::, d _s.al: r f e r t e ; t e 'o o 3 , h ther they r t'an 0 0 • d ask them w e , bear, hes ' t he ot •—( i (n oof S Well if they were to decide the soulle HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 24. The SPEAKEE took the Chair at Four o'clock. The Manchester and Leeds Railway Bill (Burnley Branch and Oldham and Heywood Branches Extension) was read a second time. The Hull and Selby (Bridlington Branch) Bill was read a second time. The Leeds and Bradford Railway Bill was read a second 1 ime. The Manchester and Birmingham (Ashton Branch) Rail way Bill was read a second time. The Leeds and West Riding Junction Railway Bill was read a second time. The Lancaster and Carlisle Railway Bill was read a second time. LONDON AND SOUTH-WESTERN METROPOLITAN EXTENSION BILL. On the motion that this Bill be read a second time, Mr. MACKINNON said he had a few words to sty on b• half of certain parties who were interested in the property on the other side of Westminster-bridge. It appeared that the proposed line from Hungerford-bridge would pass Westminster road just where the turnpike formerly stood; and it was under stood to be the intention of the Directors, instead of making one large span, to make two somewhat similar to the passTes of Temple-bar. The consequence of such an arrangement would be an immense loss of property to all the parties interested in the property in that neighbourhood. Unless this were reme died, it was the intention of those whom he represented to oppose the third reading. Mr. HAWES (who had proposed the second matting) said he had no power whatever to pledge the Directors to any par ticular conrse ; individually, he had, of course, no wi-h on the subject which was opposed to the intererts of his constituents. The Birkenhead Dock Bill was read a second time and or dered to be committed. Mr. AIASTERNIAN presented a petition from London, praying that the tolls on the metropolitan bridges mig ht be abolished. Mr. PATTISON presented a petition to the same effect. Mr. KEMBLE brought in the Richmond Railway Bill, which was read a first time. MEDICAL PRACTICE. Mr. J. PARKER presented a petition from the medical practitioners of the borough of Sheffield on the Medical Ee -1 form Bill, requesting that a clause might be introduced to re quire the possession of certificates to enable members of the I ,,,T•fession to practise. MEDICAL REFORM BILL. Mr. W. HAMILTON presented a petition from the medi cal practitioners of the Isle of Wight agaiii:t the Medical Re form 13111 of last session. Mr. MACKINNON presented a petition against the House sanctioning the reorganisation of the class of medical prac titioners. DARTMOUTH ELECTION. The Earl of MARCH presented a petition complaining of Mr. Somes' election, and praying for the appointment of a Committee.—The 3d of March was appointed for impanelling the Committee. PARISH SETTLEMENT BILL. Mr. PAKINGTON gave notice of his intention to move, in the Committee on this Bill, the insertion of certain words in the 7th clause, having reference to the movement of per sons from one perish to another after five years' settlement. PRIVATE BILLS. Dr. BOWRING, on behalf of the Hon. Member for Mon trose (Mr. Hume), gave notice of his intention to postpone his motion, which stood for to-morrow, on the subject of private Bills passed last session, till to.morrow week. DUTY ON COALS. The Hox. MExtaEu also gave notice, on behalf of the Hen. Member for Montrose, that, on the Customs duties coming before the House, he would move the abolition of the expert duty on ail coal. DUTY ON GLASS. Mr. J. BARCLAY gave notice of his intention to move, on the duty on glass being brought under the consideration of the House, that a drawback be allowed to the manufacturers on the stock on hand. THE SLAVE-TRADE. Sir R. H. INGLI S gave notice of his intention to make a statement to-morrow, on the occasion of his moving for certain papers relating to Sierra Leone and the Mauritius, relative to the importation of negroes into the island of the Mauritius IMPORTATION OF WHEAT INTO CANADA. Mr. G. BANK ES gave notice of hii intention, on a future (lay, to move for the amount of duty paid on wheat and wheat flour imported from foreign plrts into Canada. FOREIGN STONE. The !lON. MEMBER also gave notice of his intention to move, at the same time, for a return of the amount of duty paid on foreign atone imported into this country during the last three years. DUTY ON AUCTIONEERS. The HON. MEMBER then gave notice of his intention on a future day to move for a return of the duty paid by persons carrying on the business of auctioneers during the last three years, distinguishing the number of persons and the different amounts paid. CHINESE RANSOM. Sir C. NAPIER asked the Chancellor of the Ex chequer whether the Canton ransom was included in the receipts of what was called the Chinese money, and if so, what had become of it? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Canton ransom was received immediately after the close of the war ; the money that was now being received arose from the instalments which the Chinese Government agreed by treaty to pay as the indemnity to this country for the expenses of the war. Sir C. NAPIER asked what had become of the former money ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER saich r as he had received no notice of the question. he was unable to give an answer to the Hon. and Gallant Officer. SUGAR DU LIES. Mr. WODEHOUSE wished to ask a question of the Go vernment connected with the discussion of that evening. He wished to know whether it was the settled intention of her Majesty's Government to apply the reduction of the duty on sugars to all places alike, and at the same time, making do dis tinction whatever between large places like the metropolis, where the traders bad the advantage of bonding, and could draw out their stock as a demand might arise, and country places, who, not having the advantage, were obliged to hold larger stocks ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had had notice of the question, and he could have no hesitation in saying that it had never been the practice to make any differ ence in the payment of duty between persons who bonded sugar in warehouses, and those residing in other parts of the country ; it was not the intention of the Government to intro duce any change in that respect. MEDICAL CHARITIES (IRELAND). Dr. BOWRING wished to ask a question, of which he had given notice, and as the Hon. Gentleman was familiar with the evidence, he hoped he would net decline to answer the ques tion. It teemed that in the South Dublin Union some poor law guardians had applied to the Poor-law Commio sioners on the subject of a rumour that had gone abroad of the negotiation of a sale of a medical office held under the Medical Charities Bill. That communication was acknowledged on the part of the Po: r-law Commissioners, and sent to the Guardians of the South Dublin Union. He wished to ask whether the Government were disposed to lay on the table of the House the whole of the correspondence on the subject? Mr. HOPE—In answer to the Hon. Member, he begged to say, that the subject to which his question applied had been referred to the Poor-law Commissioners, and they said they would make the necessary inquiries and report upon it ; but that report had not yet been made ; when it had it should be laid upon the table of the House, and perhaps until then the Hon. Member would have no objection to postpone his motion. SUGAR DUTIES. Mr. 'WILLIAMS said, he wished to ask the Right Honourable the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he had reconsidered the determination to which he said, on Friday last, he had come, in reference to the sugar duties? The reason he asked the question was, that se veral eommunieations had been received by him from sugar merchants, complaining of the haste manifested by her Ma jesty's Government in coming to this determination, inas• much as that those merchants had large stocks on hand, and they would therefore be seriously affected by the change, if a drawback were not allowed until they had disposed of their stock nn hand. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he received daily several communications upon the subject of the Hon. Member's question. But there existed great difference of opinion amongst those who were most nearly concerned. It seeme i quite certain that if a future day was named for the duties being taken off, no sugar would be taken out in the interval. Therefore, upon full consideration, and comparison of all the applications made to the Government, he thought it would be better to say nothing further at present than that he would, on Wednesday, be prepared to say what course he intended to take as to fixing a day for the resolution to take effect. INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT. Lord MAHON begged leave to put a question to the Right Hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury, respecting the negotiations which had been for some time pending with foreign Powers on the subject of international copyright. His Right Hon. Friend the late President of the Board of Trade, had, in the course of last session, stated that some dissension had arisen, but that there was reason to expect that the negotiations would be brought to a satisfactory conclusion. What he (Lord Mahon) now wished to ask was, whether any and what pro gress had since been made? _ . Sir R. PEEL said that negotiations had been entered into on the subject with France and Belgum, for the purpose of giving facilities to the book trade in those countries and in this. These negotiations were carried on for seine time, but they did not lead to any final or satisfactory result. Negotiations were afterwards entered into with Prussia ; and after a certain time, it was alleged, on the part of Prussia, that the law of copyright in this country was defective, and ought to be amended. Since that time, two Bills had passed Parliament to amend the law of copyright. The negotiations with Prussia were now renewed, and in th e event of their being brought to a satisfactory conclusion, negotiations might be entered into with other countries. If the result of the negotiations with Prussia should not be satisfactory, he (Sir R. Peel) would have no objection to lay the corropondencebefore the House.—(Hear.)