The Sun. — London, England, 1836-02-17 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, FEIRITARY 16. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at half-past four o'clock. Mr. Campbell, from the East India House, presented papers relative to compensation to the reduced servants of the Com pany. AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. The Earl of LIVERPOOL presented a petition from the Shropshire Agricultural Association, praying for inquiry into the distress of the agriculturists. SUGAR DUTIES. Earl FITZWILLIAM presented a petition from Cal cutta,Praying for the assimilation of the duties on sugar. POOR LAWS. Lord DACRE presented a petition from Royston praying for an extension of the time, from 10 to 20 years' for the pay ment of the money advanced for the building of Poor-houses under the New Poor Law Bill. He hoped, in the course of the present Session, that some amendment would be made in the original Bill. Lord RODEN gave notice that on Friday next he should present a petition from the clergy of the arch-diocese of Tuam. Lord DENMAN presented a petition from Annan, pray ing for compensation to Mr. Buckingham. Th• House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEBRUARY 16. The SPEAKER took the chair at 10 minutes before 4 o'clock, at which time there were upwards of 300 Members in their places. In consequence of the adjourned debate on the O'Con nel petition coming on to-night, the Strangers' Gallery was opened at 2 o'clock, and was almost instantly filled. Many hundreds destined for the same place arrived afterwards, and were much disappointed at not gaining admittance. Mr. O'Connell came down to the House about half-past 4. The passages leading to the gallery and lobbies of the House were then crowded to excess. On Mr. O'Connell ascending the staircase leading to the passage within the House, the as sembled crowd took off their hats, upon which some one near him raised a hiss ; this was answered by a loud and general cheer from the great body of respectable persons in the lobby as he passed. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON brought up the report of tha Committee on the \Vearmouth Dock Bill. RAILWAYS. Sir EARDLEY WILMOT brought in several Bills for making branch railways between Birmingham and London. Mr. P. STE WAR.T presented a petition for leave to bring in a Bill to form a railway from the eastern end of Lon don to Blackwell. In presenting the petition the Hon. Mem ber submitted whether it would not be expedient for the !louse to come to a resolution, that the Committee Lists of the different Committees on Railway Bills should be at liberty to form themselves into sections in different parts of the coun try, but should have only one Chairman in a certain place. Mr. HUME doubted whether the proposition of the Hon. Member would be attended with any good effect, but he thought whatever course the House intended to adopt, should be perfectly understood. Sir S. WHALLEY thought the proposition would be attended with great inconvenience. Mr. F. YOUNG thought the present suggestion clearly il lustrated the necessity of adopting some precise course when that subject was last before it. The House was placed in the si tuation of having recommendations for three separate Bills, all having the same object, but it was obvious that it would be ruinous to each to carry them all into execution. There should be some tribunal to take into consideration the relative as well as the general merits of each plan. The present pe tition. however, afforded a practical illustration of the correct ness of the recommendation of the Hon. Member for South. wank the ether night. The SPEAKER said he could do no otherwise than follow the usual course.—( Hear, hear.) That was—to refer the le tition to the Committee proposed by the Hon. Member who presented it. Ii any alteration was to be made, it rested with the House, and with the Houi.e alone, to take that step—he had no authority of himself to do so. Mr. WILK S thought it desr.lble that same new tribunal e a pf.ohated to consider the eligibility of the various plans, and that there should be a ri2ewmendation in favour of any mea , ure before it was read a second time. Tits would 1)e a great saving of time and of espouse. Oa the presnt ocet sion, however, they could only refer the petition in the ordinary manner. Mr. PEASE thought that the subdivision of the list was the great point to guard against. If the -House expressed :ta opinion that the Committee ow flit not to he subdivided, overt end would be obtained. It s , a3 impossible that there could he two or three conflicting rail roads at the some time without their comparative merits coming before the Committee. P. M. S I'EW ART would give notice that to-morrow be would brin g in a measure to alter the present practice. Mr. \VILKS suggested to the Hon. Member to give no tics of his motion so that it might appear in the vote. Mr. P. M. STEWART would attend to the sugg,estion of the Hon. Gentleman, and give notice for Monday next. MR. BUCKINGHAM'S CASE. Mr. TULK brought up a Bill to compensate Mr. Buck ingham for his losses in India.—Read a first time. Several petitions were presented in favour of private Bills. Mr. BERNAL presented a petition from the Corporation of Gravesend, praying for leave to amend, as (we understand) the Gravesend Pier Act. Mr. (;ILLON presented petitions from several places Lanarkshire agair.st further grants to the Church. STEAM NAVIGATION ON THE THAMES. Captain ALSAGER presented a petition, signed by 900 inhabitants of Rotherhithe, complaining of the reckless speed of steam-vessels on the River Thames. The Hon. Member moved that the petition be referred to the Select Committee at present sitting on the subject. ERRORS OF THE MORNING PAPERS. Colonel VERNER begged to correct a mistake which the newspapers had fallen into respecting a statement v.hich he made a few evenings ago in the House. He was reported to have stated that he had been dismissed from his Majesty's service. Now such was not the fact. He could produce the highest testimonials as to his military character. NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT. Mr. HAWE S presented a petition from the rejected can. dilates, praying that their plans m i g ht be exhibited in the National Gallery. He was sorry that the Commissioners had so soon returned the plans of the rejected candidates, as the public were most anxious that they should be publicly exhibited, and he hoped the House would accede to a request coming from so respectable a body of men. Mr. HOPE concurred in the prayer of the petition. lie hoped a public exhibition would be allowed, as many of the architects had been put to very great expence. With respect to the immediate return of the plans he believed the Commis sioners had nothing to do with that, as, after having made their decision, they immediately sent them to the office of Woods and Forests. He trusted there would be an exhibition not only of those plans which had been unsuccessful, but also of those which had been approved. Mr. ROEBUCK supported the prayer of the petition. Mr. HAWES then presented two other petitions to the same effect. THAMES STEAM NAVIGATION. The HON. MEMBER then presented a petition relative to the rapid navigation of steamers on the River Thames. MR. BUCKINGHAM'S CLAIMS. Mr. GRANTLEY BE RK E LE Y presented a petition from a place in Gloucestershire, in favour of Mr. Buckingham's claims. BIRMINGHAM PETITION. Mr. ATT WO OD presented a petition from Birmingham, to which he prayed the serious attention of the House. The object of the Birmingham Political Union was to protect the rights and privileges of the Crown. The Meetin g from which the petition had emana ted had been the cause of some dis agreement in the town of Birmingham, as to whether it should be considered a town meeting or not ? It had been convened in the same way that all meetings had been called together for the last twenty years, as there was no regular constituted authority for such a purpose there. The people of Birmingham might have slumbered over •the objects of the meeting for a long time, had it not been for the opposite party, who made themselves exceedingly busy during the last year in getting up Political Unions in the form of Conservative dinners, where they spoke a great many Conser vative lies, and put forth many Conservative falsehoods in the public papers. It was necessary therefore for the people of Bir mingham to meet, in order to show the falsehood of those lies, errors, or misapprehensions--( Hear, and laughter)—and to show that House that they were still rooted in their desire for Reform. The petitioners stated their intense desire for Re form, but more especially for a Reform in the House of Lords. --(Hear, hear.) He agreed with them in their opinion. Re form in that House was absolutely necessary, in order to enable it to move pari passu with this House in the march of libe rality, humanity, and justice.—( Hear, hear.) No one, he was sure, would defend voting by proxy, and he was sure that every one would think the Bishops ought to be relieved from the burden of attending to temporal affairs.-- ( Hear, hear.) The sooner, in his opinion, the Government took up that business in a temperate but firm manner, the better and the more easily would it be settled. The next question which the petitioners referred to was Municipal Reform, and he trusted that the Government would speedily introduce a Bill in order to restore the Bill of last session to its original state. They next prayed for a reform in the Irish Church. He was pleased to see a Bill for that purpose pro mised, but no mention was made of the Appropriation clause. Sure he was, and he warned the Government, that without such a clause, the great body of the people of England would be very much dissatisfied. He trusted that Ministers, for their own sakes, would stand fast to that principle, until it had become the law of the land. The next question to which the petitioners referred was Poor Laws for Ireland. He was glad that a Bill on that subject had been promised ; for he was sure that there never would be p e ace in that country , until p rovision • for the p oor was made. I n opinion, the law ought to be based upon the 43d of Elizabeth. He did not mea n to sa y that it might not be necessary to depart from the p rovisions of that law to afford facilities for the transport of labour from one overburthened place to another, but they ought to stick as near to it as they possibly could.--( Hear, hear.) He believed that unless the poor of Ireland were insured the right of living - out of the produce of the soil, the gentry' of Ireland would never be interested in taking care of the labour ing classes, so as to insure them justice and protection. He hoped the, Irish poor would be insured against starvation. _He bored - the t House would not think that he required too t- gn9 4 gtio:Of the Irish poor, when h e sa id th a t *f"tugge ,ttelilsnteed a maintenanc e out o f t h e f i ra duefef the' so' Car. ) It was proved that every one of _beat goatititd more than (bur times as much food as he and his fanahly regairid... Under ibese circumstances, it was right that the' I, isds fag be compelled to hold out a paternal bona to , tbalaboninttla,spes. He did not think the whole bur tstok T - to fall tkarrsh landholders—the Irish mortgagees . ' !cif- THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 1836. and the holders of family settlements ought to be made to con tribute their due shares. He had no doubt that his Majesty's Ministers would take the subject into consideration, and, he hoped, that they would be able to pass a Bill for the introduc tion of Poor Laws into Ireland, so as to give protection to that unhappy people, and to give satisfaction to the people of the United Kingdom. Mr. SC HOLE FIELD could bear testimony to the state ments made by his Hon. Colleague. Never were good order and unanimity more observeable than upon the occasion when this petition was agreed to. There were three points which the petition embraced, but he would only call attention to one of them. There was only one opinion as to the neces sity of Irish Corporate Reform, reform of the Irish Church, and as to the necessity of poor laws for Ireland ; but there was a difference of opinion with regard to a reform of the House of Lords. It was the desire of many of the people of Birmingham not to interfere with the privileges of the House of Lords, so long as they did not obstruct the progress of improvement.--( Hear, hear.) Mr. DUGD ALE—The Hon. Member for Birmingham had asked permission to present a petition of very considerable bulk, and, as appeared from his speech, of very considerable importance. But he (Mr. D.) had every reason to believe that when the merits of that petition were duly explained, it would notbe considered of so much importance and considera tion. The principal prayer of the petition embodied an organic change in the Lords, by which was meant nothing more nor less than the utter destruction and annihilation of the rights, but the independence of that House.—(Loud cheers from the op position.) That object may be desir able in the e y es of the Honourable Member for Birmingham—( Hear, hear) — and in the eyes of a few persons in Birmingham ; but he had no hesitation in saying that the great majority of the people of Birmingham repudiated the sentiments contained in the petition. At the time of the meeting for considering the subject of the petition, a number of gentlemen entered into a protest a gainst _ the prayer of it, and declared the persons who got it up had no right to represent themselves as speaking the opi nions of the inhabitants of that city. He should read to the House the protest then agreed upon, and which he then held in his hand. The Hon. Gentlemen here read the document of which he spoke. lie should remark that it was signed by 2,000 persons, all householders of Birmingham, of full age, and of the greatest respectability, and of men entertaining dif ferent political opinions. Ile believed the Member for Bir mingham would find among them many of his own supporters. And there were only a few names on the list which had been placed on it by mistake, and which he had therefore corrected. It was signed by all the borough officers except one; the Low Bailiff; by all the Magistrates of Warwick acting for and resid ing in the borough, with one exception, and he disapproved of the object of the meeting ; also by twenty-two clergymen—( Loud laughter)—by sixty attorneys —( Continued laughter)—by forty physicians—( Increased laughter)—by two bankers, and forty merchants. He defied the Member for Birmingham to say that it was signed by an individual who was not of full age, and of the greatest respectability. With regard to the petition, which was said to conic from a body calling itself the Birmingham Political Union—( Hear)—it was well known to every Member of that House that it had bled to death a long time ago—( Laughter)—and it would be out of the power of the Member for Birmingham, with all his elo quence, ingenuity, and ability to bring it back to existence. In the first place it was, therefore, the petition of a dead body.— ( Laughter.)—lt was said to be signed by 2,000 individuals who would, if they were bona fide and living persons, and of sound mind—( Great laughter)—he entitled to the considera tion of that House. He 01r. Dugdale) believed that they were a part of that mighty host, consisting of 20,000 brave and upright men, who, the Member for Birmingham not long ago informed the House, were ready to march under his banners, and against whom the few pitiful Tories that might be found in the country could do nothing.--( Hear, hear.) He had received information from a friend at Birmingham as to the maiiirer in which the signatures were obtained, who was ready, if the House wished it, to prove at the Bar what he had stated to be the truth. He had been informed this pe tition was sent to a vast number of pot-houses of the lowest description in Birmingham, and persons were sent also to guard it of the lowest character. People had been sur tioncd v;ith it for a fortnight, in all the publiz• streets and thoroughfares in the town. Those persons were seen in the open street to sign name after name to the peti tion, without the authority or presence of any one.--( Lii mense laughter.) It was also signed by children of the vounge,t age.—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches. ) His informant had stated that he saw tables stationed in Ca streets, surrounded by children of eight, ten, and twelve years of age, and one of them who could write was writ; ,1:2 the names of the rest. Many of them were ill spelt.—( H ) Many sheets were covered with marks, purporting to be the marks of :,cveral persons. He would not trouble the House any mare—( Hear, hear) --for lie was aware that something of l i great consequence was coaling forward, and he would leave it to the House to say which they considered of most consequence, the protest he held in his hand, or the bulky petition that had been laid upon the table.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. O'CONNELL said that was just the question. There were two thousand signatures on the one hand—the rabble, if the Hon. Member pleawd—a familiar name for Eng lishmen at present—( Groans from the Conservatives, and cheers from the Ministerial Benches.) On the other hand, there was the protest of the lion. Member, amongst which he had the candour to admit there were some mistakes, which the [lon. Member scratched out.—( Hear, hear.) This petition was signed by 2,000 persons, according to the Hon. Member, and nobody being present—(Hear, hear, and laughter)—that mistake came not from potato. shire.—( Continued laughter.) The people ought not to be treated by anybody with ri dicule, such as the Hon. Member had employed.—( Hear, hear.) Perhaps they asked for what was unreasonable— a change in the House of Lords. But Englishmen had a right to ask for any organic change which they thought neces sary for their liberty. They had a right to send any petition to the House, provided they spoke in respectful language.— ( Hear.) The Hon. Member opposite was entitled to re tain his opinion, and the men of Birmingham were entitled to retain their opinion, but he felt himself bound to say, having received the high honour—( Laughter from the Tories, followed by loud cheers from the Ministerial benches)—he would be sorry to shrink from saying that he saw among them many thousand persons at that meeting—in dividuals who certainly appeared to him—he meant no disparagement to the Hon. Member opposite—quite as re • spectable as the lion. Member. They appeared to him to be intelligent, and he was certain they were discriminating.— (Cheers and laughter.) They could have had no other reason for joining in sentiment with him than that of believing that they had a community of feeling with respect to the necessity of increasing the guarantees of British liberty. There was a voice then amongst them which represented that feeling, and he did not know that his Hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham was inferior to the Hon. Gentleman opposite, either in talent, eloquence, or devotion to the liberties of his country.—(Hear, hear, hear.) His Hon. Friend had greatly contributed to carry the great measure of Reform, but the people of Birmingham had done more. He firmly believed, but for the manly, firm, but peaceable demonstra tion made by the Birmingham Union, they would now be sit ting in a rotten-borough Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) Ought not this petition, therefore, to be treated with respect ? Would any Tory clique presume to treat it with disrespect ?—( Hear.) Mr. SCARLETT said it had been the habit of certain persons who had no other employment, to endeavour upon all occasions to persuade the people that organic changes were necessary. He trusted that the petitions of the people would ever be treated with respect by that House.—( Hear, hear, hear.) But he put it to the House whether a pe tition of the nature which they had heard, ought not to be discouraged—( No, no.) When the Reform question was under discussion the people were told that the measure could only be obtained by process of law. But in the present instance it must be apparent that the object was to ob tain it by violence—( Oh ! oh ! from the Ministerial benches.) Was it, he asked, to be expected that the House of Lords would ever sanction any measure which would annihilate their own authority ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) No reasonable man could expect it. He was therefore at a loss to know how this organic change was to be effected except by violence.— (Oh, oh.) In his opinion the petition was treasonable.— (Repeated cries of " Oh, oh.") He would be glad to know how Hon. Members could distinguish between the crime of seeking a chan g e in the Monarchy and in the House of Lords. —(Laughter.) For his part he could not understand the distinction, and he thought it was the bounden duty of the House to discourage such petition. REGIUM DONUM. An Hon. MEMBER begged to ask whether it was the in tention of Government to increase the Regium Donum in Ireland ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was un derstood to reply to the Hon. Member's question in the negative. CARLOW ELECTION. At half-past five the SPEAKER called upon Mr. HARDY, who begged to move that the Clerk would read that part of the Standing Orders of the House relative to the election of Members to serve in Parliament. The reading- of the Order occasioned some laughter on the Ministerial side of the House. Mr. HARDY then rose—Whether the risibility of Hon. Members has been excited by the reading of this Order I care not ; but this I am convinced of, that the case which I have to lay before this House for its consideration comes within, if not the words, the very principle of that Order. And, Sir, it is a great relief to my mind that this matter comes before the House at a time, and under circumstances fixed upon by the Hon. and Learned Member himself, who is most interested in the result. Sir, lam rejoiced at that, because I did fear that the Hon. and Learned Member might have sustained some inconvenience, in consequence of an omission on my part not communicating to him the petition which I bad to present, but which I have since learned was in his hand:, or at least a copy of it, before it was in mine—( Tremendous cheering from the Tory benches.) Sir, there was one cir cumstance which I thought might have created some inconve nience to the Hon. and Learned Member, and that was the hour at which the discussion in this case might be likely to come on, in consequence of my notice standing 9th on the paper for this evening. Accordingly, as soon as I had satisfied myself, which was not till late on Wednesday night, that I had a perfect right to bring it forward in precedence as a breach of privilege, I wrote early on the following morning to the Hon. and Learned Member to acquaint him I did mean to claim that precedence, and I shall read that note to the House.—( Hear, and much laughter.) ‘. Mr. Hardy presents his compliments to Mr. O'Connell, and begs leave to inform him that it is his intention to claim precedence for his motion of this evening, respecting the Carlow Election, as involving a breach of privilege.-7, Portland-place, Feb. 11. —( Roars of laughter.) The answer to that was, that the Hon. and Learned Member was not up—( Renewed laughter)—and would not be for an hour ; but in the course of the morning 1 received the following answer :—" If any act of Mr. Hardy could create surprise in the mind of any impartial person, it would be that, after having neglected all the ordinary courte sies between Members, he should have had the almost incom prehensible presumption—( Roars of laughter)—to address his first communication to Mr. O'Connell, who, how ever, cannot but feel flattered that Mr. Hardy should send him his compliments."—(Tremendous roars of laughter. ) Sir, I trust, if I am to judge at all by the confidence the Hon. and Learned Member has displayed, that it will afford him sa tisfaction that I have sent my compliments.—( Great laughter.) Sir, I trust that this evening the objections which were made the first night will not be repeated, namely, that it was a mock solemnity—(" Hear," and loud cheers) —a designation which was given by the Hon. and Leal-tied Gentle man himself, not with perfect consistency, I think, because he thought it a case for inquiry ; and how a case of mock solem nity should occupy the attention of the House—if it was fairly a case for inquiry—howlit could be a mock solemnity the Hon. and Learned Member must explain.—( Great cheering.) If it was a case of mock solemnity, something had passed since Thursday which had taken that title from it. Steps had been taken by two Honourable Members, which had given to this question a solemnity that it never had before.— (Cheers.) I have had an opportunity of conversing with the Hon. Member for Ipswich, who at that time treated this question very lightly, and who stated, to show what Isis feelings were upon the subject, that it was his intention to move for an account of all the transactions and agreements between all the Members of the House.—(Great laughter.) Whether upon second consideration he found that such an in quiry would not suit all purposes I know not—(Great laughter)—but, from considering it a case of no importance, it became in his estimation of such magnitude and interest, that he moved for hearing it at the bar of the House—( Cheers). Another Hon. Member had presented a most extraordinary petition, which I have only seen in the votes of the House, and which petition appears to me to proceed upon grounds the most extraneous with respect to this matter—( Great cheer ing)—it is presented in the name of a gentleman named Vigors, who complains of imputations against himself in the two pe titions on the table of the House. The petition from Bath never mentions his name—( Great cheering)—and in the one from Carlow it is merely mentioned in two places—(Great laughter from the Ministerial side of the House) —and yet the petition is presented by the Honourable Member for Liskeard, complaining of illegal, unconstitutional, and corrupt conduct on the part of the petitioners. Sir, I don't know any thing in either of those petitions that complained of anything like illegal, unconstitutional, or corrupt conduct on the part of that gentleman.—(Loud cheers.) It appears that my mo tion will be attended with some good effect; for unless my motion had been made, and this enquiry called for, 249 families and 316 widows and orphans—(Great laughter)— would never have had their wants brought before the House. —( Great laughter, and cries of " hear, hear," from Mr. O'Connell.) The Hon. and Learned Member calls, " Hear, hear." I ask him where he was when it is stated that within the last few years circumstances alluded to in that petition took place.—( Great cheering from the opposition. ) Why is it that the circumstances of these poor families, and the orphans and widows, are so connected with this case? Why is it that they have only now come out, when it is stated in this petition that they have been persecuted for years ( Cheers.) Sir, having got rid of these preliminary observa tions, which I have no pleasure in making, I will now pro ceed to lay the case which I have to do before the House ; and I assure you, Sir, that it lays in a very narrow compass. It appears; Sir, that or. the 27th of May, a Committee ‘vhieh was then sitting upon a petition against the election for the county of Carlow, declared the election of -Vigors and Raphael void. On the 28th May— only the very next day, and of course before the people of Carlow could be consulted on the matter, the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin called upon Mr. Raphael, and asked him to be a candidate fur Carlow, at the same telling him that the expense would n.it exceed 2,0001. On the 29th of May, only two days after tle: seats were declared void, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman again called upon Mr. Raphael, and not seeing him wrote him as follows : " 9, Clarg,es-street, May 29, 1835 "My dear Sir,—l remained at home, at some inconvenience, until after the hour I mentioned. I was sorry I did not re main longer, as you called shortly after ; but as you left no letter or other indication of acceding to my proposal, I take for granted that you decline my offer—be it so. I only add my belief that you will never again meet so safe a speculation. I am quite sure I never shall hear of one. " I have the honour to be, my dear Sir, Your very faithful, " DANIEL O'CONNELL. " Alexander Raphael, Esq." Sir, that reminds me of what was quai;.tly said by one of our poets—( Loud cries of " Oh, oli," and laughter)—of what was said by one of our early poets, " The thing for sale, calls forth the seller's praise"—( Laughter)—and certainly, if it had been wanted to puff one of the scats for Carlow, nothing could have been better than the expression used by the Honourable and Learned Member, when he assures his Friend that it is so safe a speculation—(Laughter)—and that it would be some time before he might have another so safe to offer. It would seem, Sir, that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was very anxious that Carlow should have so distinguished a Representative from his earnestness in the cause. In conse quence of that note a meeting took place on the Ist of June, at which . a note was written and delivered to Mr. Raphael. " 9, Clarges-street, June 1, 1935. -1 " My dear Sir,—You having acceded to the terms proposed to you for the election of the county of Carlow—viz., you are to pay before nomination I,oool.,—say 1,0001., and a like sum after being returned—the first to be paid absolutely and en tirely for being nominated, the second to be paid only in the event of your having been returned, I hereby undertake to guarantee and save you harmless from any and every other expense whatsoever, whether of agents, carriages, counsel, petition against the return, or of any other description, and I make this guarantee in the fullest sense of the honourable engagement that ybu should not possibly be required to pay one shilling more in any event, or upon any contingency what soever. " I am, my dear Sir, your very faithful, "A. Raphael, Esq." " DANIEL O'CONNELL." A bargain was thus entered into between the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin and Mr. Raphael, and I ask his Majesty's Attorney-General to state, if he will favour us, whether he ever witnessed a more complete bargain and sale. —( Cries of " Oh," and great cheering.) What was the subject matter of it ? A scat in Parliament.—( Hear, hear, hear.) If it bad been a bargain for a horse nobody can doubt that it would be enforceable in a Court of law, but it is not enforceable in a Court of law, because it would be known it was a bargain fur a seat in parliament. ( Loud cheers from the Opposition.) Will any man tell me that Mr. Raphael would have sat as representative of Carlow if it had not been for thu 2,000/. ?—( Cheers. ) Will any man tell me that Mr. Raphael would have been recommended by the Learned and Hon. Member for Dublin, if it had not been for the 2,oool.—(Renewed cheering from the Tories.) What more is wanted for abargain ?—( Laughter and cheers.) If it be neces sary to show to what money the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin attached so much importance, I beg the attention of the House to the note that was written by the Hon. and Learned Member to Mr. Raphael subsequently, in which he asks over and over again for the 1,000/. [The Hon. and Learned Member here read the letter of the 4th of June. The Hon. and Learned Member read "promises" for "prospects," which excited some laughter. ) lam somewhat shortsighted. (Great laughter from the Ministerial side.) Now as the bargain was made on the Ist of June, and this note was written on the 4th, it could not have been Mr. Raphael's prospects that were so bright. The recommendation of the Hon. and Learned Member had not arrived in Carlow,and whose prospects,therefore, they were, I cannot divine.—( Loud cheers from the Opposition. ) The Hon. Gentleman here referred to the letter of the Bth of June, and continued—Now, Sir, this is the bargain of which I complain._( Hear, from Mr. O'Connell.) And when I began the case, as I thought I was entitled to do the other evening, I was called to order, because, as you said, the only question before the Chair was, the petition should be on the table. I was stating that from these circumstances I did not draw the linference that sheer money went into the pocket of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.—( Hear, hear.) The House must have observed what use has been made of that admission—and they must see that, though I am but a little man—( Hear, hear)—when I accuse, I am considered of great importance when I come to acquit.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) But, Sir, I was going on to state, that, although in the event of a contest and petition, no money would remain in the hands of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, yet in case the one had not been proceeded with, or the other pro secuted, a considerable sum must have been left unexpended. There are some men to whom the gratification of their ambi tion is a matter of much greater consequence than any amount of cash ; and if this feeling, s o d ear to his heart, were gratified by adding to the number of those who would be of his party in this House, Iv e may easily ac count for the anxious inquiries after Mr. Hamilton.—( Cheers from the opposition.) But, Sir, when I recollect that the pe tition had been abandoned by the Hon. and Learned Gentle man, as appears from the statement in the newspapers on the second or the third day of the sitting of the Committee, and when I remind this Honourable House that the county of Carlow is a small one, with scarce as many voters as there are in the borough which I represent, I must believe that the contest could not be expensive. And, I ask, what would have been the case if there had been no contest or peti tion—seeing that there was paid 1,0001. for the nomination alone? That nomination, according to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, was to be followed, not by an easy victory, but by the shadow of a contest. We must recollect the difference be tween the cost of nomination, and the 1,0001. received for it. I find it is part of the bargain that he shall not be called upon for one shilling more ; but I do not find that it is part of the bargain he shall have any returned.—( Hear, hear.) These are the circumstances of the case. They lie in a very narrow compass, and I have seen no defence of them, except in a public paper; and certainly it would seem that, in the Editor's estimation, the Hon. and Learned Member stands high ; and also in the pet:l,4n that was presented last night, it is stated that nothing nore common than an arrangement of that kind—indeed it is stated that what has happened_ " that the money transactions alluded to in the said petitions were, as your petitioner avers, and is advised, strictly legal, constitutional and honourable ; that the great majority of your Honourable House is accustomed to make similar money arrengements— ( Hear, hear)---in respect to their seats in the Commons' Honse of Parliament." And, Sir, it is stated in the paper to whichoae candidate l have alluded, should l t gis m the e pe o n r s e eand common th a t hn t an that this instance, Mr. Vigors had reputation and popularity, in the benefit of which Mr. Raphael was to participate. Has an Hon: Member, who offers himself to his constituents, any right to sell his reputation? Can he go to a friend and say, you pay the expenses, and I will give you half my popularity and half my reputation ?—( Hear.) I cannot understand that any such bargain is legal. If it be, this will be the first time I have ever heard of it, and I cannot understand that any per- son who calls himself an agent in such a bargain, especially if that agent be a Member of this Honourable House, can attempt to support any bargain of that description.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") I cannot call the Honourable and Learn ed Gentleman an agent—l wonder that he condescends to call himself an agent—because I never heard of an agent who undertook to be responsible—" I hereby undertake to guarantee and save you harmless from any and every other expense whatsoever, whether of agents, carriages, counsel, petition against the return, or of any other descrip -1 tion."—l do not know how a person who enters into such a bargain can be called an agent—( Hear) — I should rather think that Mr. Vigors, the petitioner of last night, was the agent of the Hon. and Learned Member at Carlow, rather than that the Hon. and Learned Member was the agent of Mr. Vigors in London.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The consequence is, that the Hon. and Learned Member no minates and puts in both Members for the county of Carlow, Mr. Vigors, his personal friend, and Mr. Raphael, his friend, as contractor. It is of very little consequence what sort of a representative the people of Carlow are to get. They never saw his face—they never saw anything of him but his Address, though of this nothing belonged to him but his name. —( Hear, and laughter.) If a man happens to possess moral influence, he has no right to dispose of it for money. A writ had been lately issued for a certain place, in conse quence of a Noble Lord's elevation to the other House—what would be thought, I ask, of a Noble Lord, who has great influence in this place, if he made such a bargain— if he made such a bargain as this ? There are many consti tuencies in this country who would be glad to receive the recommendation of an Honourable Baronet of great in fluence ; but what I put to the House is—if that Honourable Baronet said to a candidate, " I have great influence in this borough or county, and I will ensure your return if you give me 1,000/. now, and another 1,0001. after your return."—( Hear, hear.) If such a thing as this had taken place, and if it had transpired, what would be thought of it by the supporters of the Honourable and Learned Gen tleman ? Would not his conduct form the subject of their strongest animadversion, mid would no t the Honourable and Learned Gentleman hiiCaself discharge some of those arrows at him, which he is in the habit of flinging at every leading Member who differs from him ? The question is, what was to be done with this money ?—what was to pre vent the Hon. and Learned Gentleman from applying it as he thought proper ?—what was to prevent him putting it into his own pocket for his own personal aggrandizement ? It appears therefore hardly necessary that I should enter upon the circumstances subsequently stated, and which had been in the hands of every Hon. Member of this House. Was there no Irish patriot who would stand forward to fight the battles of the people of Carlow, and spend two thousand pounds in legal expenses to vindicate their rights, and to do justice to Ireland ?"—( Laughter and cheers.) It appears that there was a Gentleman who did make enquiries, a Gentleman whose manly and straightforward conduct I have often admired in this House—l mean Mr. Feargus O'Connor.—(Cheers.) He had inquired after it, for one passage runs thus—" It is not my fault that Mr. Feargus O'Connor called upon you—refer him and every body else to me—( Great laughter and cheering)— I want part of the 1,000/. to send over."—(Laughter.)—And on the same day the Hon. and Learned Member wrote the following note to Mr. Hamilton : " Sir—l beg you will hand my son, Mr. John O'Connell, the 1,000/. placed with you by Mr. Raphael for my use. My son will give you a voucher for it. " I have the honour to be, Sir, your obedient Servant, "DANIEL -O'CONNELL." It was on these grounds that I made the observations relative to the Hon. Member for Youghal, as it appeared to me that he should have known, before he went for the money, to what purpose it was to be applied. But if this inquiry goes on, it will be for the Committee to inquire into all the circumstances.—(Cheers from both sides of the House.) I do'nt know that it is necessary for me to make any further observations with respect to the transaction. I have laid them before the House, as I felt it my duty to do, and if the Hon. Member can get rid of them either by at gument or evidence, no man will rejoice more at it than myself, and the Hon. and Learned Member ought to feel grateful to me. I shall only make one more observation with respect to what fell from the Honourable and Learned Member for Tipperary on 'Thursday night.—(Hear, hear.) That Honourable and Learned Member for a purpose which was but too evident—to excite the prejudices of Hon. Members on that side the House —choose to represent me, as put forward by the Conservatives. No.") Sir, I happen to have a gentleman sitting behind the Treasury Benches at this moment, to whom I mentioned my intention two months ago, and if any Hon. Member near me heard me mention it to him within the last month, let him come forward and stamp me as a villain.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member for Tipperary, for the purpose of preju dice, puts me forward as a leader of the Conservatives.— ( Loud cheers.) I am not of the Monboddo Creed of politics.—(Great laughter.) I know nothing of joints anatomically or politically ; but I came into this House a free and independent man, determined to act upon the principles so beautifully expressed by the Noble Lord opposite, when he introduced the Reform Bill. That is the ground on which I am anxious to take my stand ; and if that be, to be a Conserva tive, I openly avow myself one.—(Cheers.) With respect to bribery and corruption, I call on the Honourable Member for Tipperary, and his friends on that side, to say if I ever flinched when they were inquiring into those cases. But I wish to be consistent.—(Great cheering.) And I cannot understand those Gentlemen, who, after having hunted over a small isolated place, lose their scent, and are paralized when they find a wholesale dealer in the material.—( Great cheers. ) These Gentlemen call themselves Radicals, and mo nopolize the name of Liberals.—( Cheering.) Liberals, indeed ! I know enough of such Liberals, as to have nothing to do with men who will strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.—( Loud and long continued cheerine-.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then moved that a Select Committee be appointed to enquire into the circumstances at tending the traffic and agreement between Daniel O'Connell and Alexander Raphael, touching the nomination and return of Alexander Raphael for the county of Carlow, and to report the minutes of evidence, with their observations thereon. Mr. O'CONNE L rose, and said—Sir, my first obser. vation is, that the resolution proposed is exceedingly paltry ; it does not extend the inquiry to the extent which I challenge and demand. With that observation, Sir, I leave that part of the case. My next observation applies to the com mencement of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's speech. He prefaced the speech, by saying that I was furnished with a copy of the Petition before he was. Now, Sir, that is a fact which I utterly deny.—(Cheers.) I utterly deny it, and yet when he stated that as a fact, he Ras cheered by four fifths of the Gentlemen opposite, thereby showing a partiality at which I am not surprised—( Hear, hear) —for I believe that they have not even hypocrisy enough to deny, that they are willing and anxious to have an oppor tunity of condemning me. Sir, when I heard that cheer it put me in mind of an anecdote which was once told me by the present Lord Chief Justice Bushe, after the rebellion of 1798. I had it from his own bps. He was engaged as counsel for a man at the Wexford Assizes, who was charged with murdering a man named James White. The trial came on after the Act of Amnesty had been passed, which exempted all except those guilty of murder. The case was tried before Baron Smith, the father of the present Baron Smith. Two witnesses swore positively that they saw James White killed. Mr. Bushe the Counsel for the prisoner, asked only to call one witness. The witness was the murdered man, who swore that he was alive and well. —(Loud laughter.) The case went to the Jury, and the Jury returned a verdict of guilty. " Guilty," said his Lord ship, "why, the man's alive." " Very true, my Lord ; but, that's all the Indemnity Act," said the foreman of the Jury, "he stole my best grey mare that I have hunted fifty miles many a day, and I'll hang him for that, as I can't hang him for the murder." ( Cheers and laughter.) This was described to me by the present Chief Justice of Ire land as a literal fact. Now, when I heard the cheers of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite to-night, I thought that I, like the prisoner at Wexford, was to be convicted of one offence be cause I had committed another; that I was to be convicted of corruption because I had put down Toryism.—( Cheers. ) That is my real crime. It is not that a man was returned at the trifling expense of 2,0001. for a contested county election, but that seeing Toryism, as the gray horse, again riding rough shod over Ireland, I forgot every passion and prejudice of my own —forgot all my own wrongs—( Oh, oh I and cheers)—and threw the whole of my influence in the country in opposition to the Tories.—(Cheers.) Yes, my offence is, that I put myself forward as an instrument to support the present Government, and to keep the Tories where they now are, and I trust always will be.—( Cheers.) I call upon the House then to look upon this matter, not as a mock solemnity, although I certainly cannot help thinking that there is something of mockery in it, but as a matter of grave and serious consideration. The Hon. and Learned Member for Bradford (Mr. Hardy) heard me the other evening, when I stated that I knew an individual who declared that he (Mr. Hardy) had expended upwards of 7,000/. in his own election.—(Hear hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman heard me spe;k of that election. He heard me repeat the statement I had heard. Yet neither on the former evening, nor in the course of his speech to-night, has he said one word in contradiction of it.—(Hear, hear.) Oh, then, I know what his mock solemity is.—(Cheers.) Oh, then, I know what his straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel means.—(Loud cheers.) For mark, his party was ac cused of purchasing votes at from 3/. to 201. a piece. An Hots. Mame—Not at the last election. Mr. O'CONNELL.—Oh ! no, not at the last election. Votes came otherwise at the last election.—( Hear, hear.) No one but the Hon. and Learned Member himself knows what were the costs and expences of the last election.—( Hear, hear.) . But I come to the question. There is not a man in this House or out of it who does not know that this is a party attack ;—( Cheers)—that it is the attack of a party who have used the press, and bribed the press to assail me ;—( Cheers)— that very press, amongst others, which belongs in a great mea sure to a Member of this House, and who himself expended 30,000/. or 40,000/. in his election for an English county.— ( Cheers.) I shall, perhaps, revert to this part of the subject again before I sit down, for I do hope that this case will be a useful one. I know what the amount of hypocrisy in this House is. I know how many of those who affect to see a mote in the eye of his neighbours, will still allow the beam to remain in their own.—( Hear, hear.) I have often been the instrument, by means of my enemies, of effecting much public good ; and I fancy that such will be the result of the present inquiry, which ought to be extensive and searching, and not a miserable, paltry, pitiful investigation, which the Hon. and Learned Member for Bradford conscientiously limits to a par ticular transaction.—( Hear, bear.) Instead of being confined to such nari ow and contemptible grounds, the inquiry ought to extend to the whole of the late general elections.—( Oh ! and cheers.) We have sage doctors among us, men learned in the forms and technicalities of the House, who, no doubt, would op pose such a proposition ; but I dare you to the contest. If you ask for inquiry at all, I hope you are prepared to make it exten- sive and general.—( Hear, hear.) There are two points to be ascertained in this inquiry. Of the charge of personal bribery and corruption I was acquitted the other evening. —( Cries of " No, no.") Oh, yes I was, for what did the Hon. and Learned Member for Bradford say to-night ? " When I charged the Learned Member for Dublin," said he, " I was described by his friends as a pigmy; when I acquitted him I was considered a giant," I know not whether lam acquitted by the Gentleman who interrupted me, but this I know, that of the charge of personal bribery and corruption, I am fully and completely acquitted by 200 or 250 of the Hon. Gentle men who sit on this side of the House.—( Hear, hear.) I wish to know whether the Hon. and Learned Gentleman shrinks now from the acquittal which he gave me the other night of personal corruption, or of having put money into my own pocket ?—( Hear, hear)—and whether he now goes back to his original charge, driven to it, of course, not by the Con servatives, but by his own honourable and conscientious feel ings?—( Hear, hear.) Why the Noble Lord ( Stanley) the Member for South Lancashire, who is not now in the House —( It was intimated that Lord Stanley was present)-oh, I beg the Noble Lord's pardon, but not seeing him in his proper place, I naturally supposed he was absent. I was about to state that the Noble Lord, in his speech the other evening, drew the distinction between personal and pecuniary corrup tion, and thought that the Hon. and Learned Member for Bradford had drawn the same distinction to-night.—( No, no.) I understood him to do so distinctly. But I take up the case precisely as it stands—l take up the case which the Noble Lord spoke of—the case of personal corruption and pecuniary corruption. Igo into both ; and I defy either the one or the other to be brought against me in any shape that can reflect upon my personal or political integrity. I take up both ; and I fear not the result.—( Hear, hear.) You may by a majority name a Committee before which I will not go.—(Oh, oh. ) Yes, you may do this ; but if you do, I tell you your Com mittee would be so stigmatised by its formation, that the public at large would pay no regard to its proceedings.— ( Hear, hear.) I want an independent committee—a com mittee whose verdict of acquittal would really be a purification from the charge.—( Cheers.) That is the committee I want ; and shame upon you if you have congregated here to put par tisans on the committee against me.—( Cheers.) Well, I take up both the cases put by the Noble Lord. Am I guilty ? Is there any charge against me of personal corruption ? Is there any proof of my having improperly used that moral in fluence which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman supposes me to possess?—(Hear, hear.) And here let me remark, for one moment, on the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's great candour—his Christian candour on this subject. He has read the charges made against me ;—would it not have been as charitable if he had also read my reply to those charges ? —( Hear, hear.) And when he talks of Mr. Vigors, as if that gentleman was a person inferior to him in anything, would there not have been as much of Christian candour in his state ment if he had informed the House that Mr. Vigors distinctly asserted that not one farthing of the money remained, or was ever intended to remain in my hands ?—( Hear, hear.) Oh, I thank you for your candour. I thank you for your Christian charity, and I thank you for your kind forbearance. (Hear. ) I come back to the double point of view which this case pre seats. Does it present anything of what is called personal corruption—does it present anything of pecuniary corruption ? I laugh to scorn the second, and begin with the first—( Hear) and I distinctly admit that I have very considerable influence in Ireland. I admit that I have a degree of influence which ought not to be left with any one man in Ireland.— ( Hear, hear.) I admit that I have a dangerous influence in Ireland.—( Cheers.) I have an influence, which in a sound state of society, no man possibly could have in Ireland.— ( Great cheering.) Would you wish to make that influence all-powerful ?—( Hear, hear.) If you do, take up the unjust, the partial, the ( I will not call it odious, but) criminal state ment which has been made by the Hon. and Learned Gentle man.—( Hear, hear.) If you take up his view and confirm the justice of his statement, will you diminish my power in Ire land ?—will you diminish my influence with the oppressed in that country ? No ; you will add to it by another injustice.— (Hear, hear.) The people of Ireland will say, "It is not the tact which has been condemned, but the advocate of our rights —the defender of our privileges—the sustainer of our liberties, and thus another gross and glaring injustice has been perpe trated upon us." I certainly never heard anything so per fectly and completely framed for the purpose merely of injus tice as the statement of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman.— ( Hear, hear, hear.) Yet if he refuse to do me justice—if he refuse to give me a liberal and enlightened committee, does he not know that he will be adding ten-fold to my power in Ire land ?—( Hear.) Nay more, I have some influence in England too ; I may meet the Hon. and Learned Member at Bradford, and there I shall be at liberty to proclaim against him the his tory of the election at Pontefract—if, indeed, the Hon. and Learned Member should ever stand for Bradford again, which, from all I can hear, I am disposed to think as exceed ingly doubtful. —( Hear, hear.) Does he wish to increase my power in England ? If so, let him persuade the House to do me an injustice, and he will be taking the surest means to se cure his wish—(Hear, hear)—because my power is bottomed entirely upon injustice—partial injustice in England—general and universal injustice in Ireland.—( Cheers.) I admit that I have as powerful influence—nay more, I admit that I am the hired servant of the people of Ireland—( Hear, hear)—l ad mit that they have amply, indemnified me for having given up my profession, and the reasonable prospects I had of enjoying the otiuni cunt dignitate of the bench, and the ease and abun dant income which would thus have been secured to me in my old age. But for the abandonment of this prospect the people of Ireland have amply indemnified me ; and it is my duty to exert every power I possess to procure for them in this House representatives of their wants and their wishes—to exclude from this House, whenever I can, those who arc indifferent or directly opposed to their interests—and, above all, to exert all my influence against those inhuman creatures, who, deaf to the widow's tear and the orphan's shriek, can smile amidst the woe and wretchedness they have created about them, and who, whilst human beings fall and perish at their very threshold, think only of the triumph of their party, and of their individual importance as Members of this House.—( Cheers.) lam upon the question of influence. Let me state to the House the real facts which occurred at the election for Carlow. The statement will not occupy much time, and I think it will be found to be instructive.—( Hear, hear.) In the election which took place just before the Reform Bill was passed, Sir John M. Doyle and Mr. Blakeney were returned for the county of Carlow. So strong at that time was the excitement of the county, that the old Orange Tory interest did not dare to enter into a contest. Sir John M. Doyle and Mr. Blakeney, therefore, were returned without opposition. On the throwing out of the Reform Bill in the House of Lords, there was an other election, at which, after a short contest, Mr. 'Wallace and Mr. Blakeney were returned ; but the moment that the contest began, a cruel scene of persecution was commenced on the part of the Tory candidates. The present motion at tempts to get rid of that. The new-made Member for Brad ford has no heart for the weeping widow or starving orphan.— (" Oh, oh I") Is this irrelevant to the present matter? Oh, the irrelevancy of the widow's cry—( Hear, hear)—oh the ir relevancy of the orphan's tear. —(Hear, hear.) Ye are all lovers of right and justice, but the moment an appeal is made to the most endearing ties of humanity, that is irrelevant— ( Hear, hear.) I will not weary you ; I may mention, how ever, that at the election at which Messrs. Wallace and Blake ney were returned, a system of persecution and cruelty was carried on to a horrible extent by the Tories. I can prove, by the statement of Mr. Vigors, that there were at that time 1,100 individuals turned out from their houses and homes—that there were 193 widows, and I cannot tell how many orphans, driven from the shelter of their homes by the cruel, the bitter, the horrible and unrelenting hostility of the Tory landlords. I put it to every English gentleman who hears me, whether he will shut this out of the inquiry ? ( Hear, hear.) Of what materials can you be composed if you resolve to shut these proceedings out of the inquiry ?—( Hear.) I am ready to prove these things at the bar of the House or before a committee. Both Messrs. Wallace and Blakeney having under the circumstances I have described become Members for Carlow, another general elec tion shortly took place—the election which followed the ac cession to office of Sir Robert Peel and the Duke of Welling ton. See what the state of the county of Carlow was at that time. Two men, the present Members for the county, deter mined to support the new Administration—an Administration which took part with that interest in Ireland which was op posed to the views and wishes of the great majority of the people—an Administration during whose brief existence the No Popery" flag waved over the head of the Lord Lieute nant as he sat in the theatre at Dublin, and during whose brief existence the Right Honourable Gentleman the Re-: corder for the city of Dublin, and his Honourable and Learned Colleague in the representation of the University of Dublin, together with the Right Hon. Mr. Gregory, all decided enemies of the Roman Catholics, were made Privy Council lors.—(Hear hear.) Here, then, the triumph of Orangeism was for a time complete. But the triumph was a brief one ; and it is fortunate that it was so ; for laugh and sneer as you will, if the people of this country had been so misguided as to trust to that infatuated party a continua nce of power, Ireland would have been convuplsaerdwvoiunfilrdsstuhccah:m.eaewbicaneytnothpfaootuwneedvreii•yna t m h a e n p o o f p uproperty ranks. a n d When intelligence this twhleiirctehhe warfare Conservativeaa largem a n fundwo amountwho o t was hde ou eofbltes ettiformedsub scriptionsoh nast . li_an elections.__( theg(Cries rs sums wascounty of " se orr received, h:,eed oy,h o t" c ca Carlow, rry on r a t were y Is re ceived by the Conservatives for thi s purpose ?—( Hear, hear. When you talk of purity of electi on , l et us see w h at the purity of the Conservatives has been.—(Hear, hear.) Let us have a full inquiry, and let us see what money has been subscribed, for what it has been subscribed, and in what manner, and for what purposes it has been expended.—(Hear, hear.) Let n w o a t rd th w e it H h o h n is s a t nd Learned Member udiedand well-prepared sentences tcoo ask e f or for - a limited inquiry, but if his intentions be sincere, let him join with me in probing the evil to the bottom. If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman will do that, I will undertake to prove that subscriptioas to a very extraordinary amount were got to gether by the Carlton Club, for the purpose of carrying the elections in different parts of the kingdom.—( Oh, and loud cheers.) Let those who doubt it but give me the opportunity of producing my proofs, and I will change their doubts into conviction ; if, indeed, they be open to a conviction of that which they are unwilling to believe.—( Hear.) Well, in Ire land this plan was carried on with very considerable success. How did the present Members obtain their seats for the county of Carlow ? Let the inquiry commence, and you will have from every part of that county abundant proof of the means by which those seats were procured.—( Hear.) You smile at this. If you knew all you would tremble. The whole of Ireland was assailed by the Conservative party. Carlow was attacked by two men of fortune—one having large property in the county, the other known to be a possessor of very great wealth. These men entered into the contest, determined at any ex_ pence to carry their election. Under these circumstances, Mr. Blakeney retired from the contest, and Mr. Wallace would not promise to come forward. Thus the county was left with out a candidate in the Liberal interest. If it be a crime to _ seek for a candidate, I was guilty of a crime.—( Hear, hear.), I sought for a candidate—l sought for two candidates —, sought in vain. For the first time, under these eircumsrances , Mr. Raphael introduced himself to me. This was at the ge neral election which took place after the accession of Sir Ro- . bert Peel to office. His agent, Mr. Pearson, wrote to ne_. upon the subject, stated that Mr. Raphael was High Shei la of London for that year, and gave him a high character for. respectability and political integrity. I had never heard of the man before. He proposed that he should stand as candi date for the county of Carlow, declaring that he would in stantly purchase a large estate in that county (if there s hould be one to be purchased), if he were returned a Member for it. I answered Mr. Pearson's letter, and I will insist upon having, my reply to that letter laid before any Committee that shill' be appointed by this House. That was my first step—for this thing has been taken up by the Honourable and Learned :View' ber for Bradford as if the 28th of May was the first time I ever heard of Mr. Raphael. Indeed the Honourable and Learned Member does not appear to have read my answer which was inserted in the papers. If he had, he would have seen that Mr. Raphael admits that the 28th of May was not my firs t / acquaintance with him on the subject of an cleetion. stated to Mr. Pearson what my views were generally—aunt as to Carlow, I stated particularly that I would make far ther inquiries, and give him the details respecting an elec tion for that county.—(Hear, hear,) I told him that it could be ascertained what number of electors would vote for Re form candidates, and what number for Tory candidates ; that by the result of the Committee of this House, the ha lance was in favour of the Tories, and that unless certain men would add their interest to the Reformers, in order to out number the Tories, Mr. Raphael ought not to stand. I got a letter from Mr. Pearson, telling me that Mr. Raphael b ad offered to stand as a candidate for Pontefract, that he wa s High Sheriff of the City of London at the last general elec tion, and that he had stood as candidate for Leeds. However my opinion of Mr. Raphael may be altered now, I knew Ile; thing of him at that period to his disparagement, nor do I know any other disparaging circumstances of him now except this transaction.—( Hear, hear.) My excuse then, towards the county of Carlow, and towards this House, for recom mending him to bo the Member for Carlow is, that at that period I had heard nothing derogatory of Mr. Raphael. Mr' Wallace declined to become a candidate at the general elec tion, whereupon, so strong was the popular feeling against the present Members, that there started up as a candidate a young gentleman who had just gone through his courses at the University—a Mr. Cahill. He added the name of. my eldest son with his own as a popular name, but who had been already returned for Tralee, and did not, therefore, wa n t to be returned for Carlow ; but the Reformers stood a contest of four days under those two names against the sitting Mem bers. This I state for the purpose of showing the House he°, strong the popular party are in that county.—( Hear, hear . / The sitting Members were returned. Their return wa s petitioned again s t, an d thi s was the case proved again" „ them :—lt was proved that the county voters had no been exhausted at the close of the election. Why were they not ? Because the law agent of Als-. Bruen put the long oath to every voter that came up to vote for Mr. Kavanagh land the law agent of Mr. Kavanagh put the long oath to • every voter that came up to vote for Mr. Bruen. Was tha t all ? No. The agents for the popular party feeling a repug nance—it is only the sanctified man who does not—at this pro fane use of the oaths, said to the agents of Bruen and Kavanagh, " We know your object—your object is delay ; you gain three minutes between every second vote. Now we will give you those three minutes but don't put the oaths." That was ac cepted.—( Loud cheers.) What does the conscientious Mem ber for Bradford think of that ?—(Cheers.) What was the next step? The next morning the agents of Bruen and Kava nagh said "three m i nu t es are not enoug h— we can wea r ou t five ; and if you do not allow five minutes between every tWe voters we will put the oaths." It was found isy experime nt that they could wear out fi ve m i nu t es , an d accor di ng ly th.. e f„, got five.- -( Hear, hear.) Na ell, th e y f oun d t h at even 0 ; were not enough, and wanted to ext en d it t o s i x or seven ; the opposite agents would not give snore, so the other par t y continued, after a short interval, to put the oaths, until they 30 ' tually entirely put the county out of court.—( Hear.) To TO' who love the democratic principle, it is a most deplorable thing ° that those vexations proceedings—whatever money might b paid for them—should have taken place at Carlow. The 11 , e13 ,i and Gallant Member who has lately p resen t e d a p e titi on aga' ll ,. - me challenged inquiry. I challeng e hi m .—( Ch eers .) Let In: s come before a Committee.—( Cheers.) I can prove that 007.. was a contract between him and Mr. Kavanagh to adopt Oil system. lis ill not pledge myself to the House, b u t I show like to examine him upon that point before a Gorninitt e " , ; There never was anything in the history of contested electl, so contested outrageous. election —(Ch against eers.) the Wbell,r other of o Mr. Vigornes havin of the g stn ° . oo . s itti Members for the county, for the town of Carlow, in which hi; . ]ugh was defeated, finding, under the circumstances I have 11, 0 stated, that a petition against the county Members cou ld so strongly supported, brought the case before a Cornasit t io of this House. They proved the facts I have mentioned ; ' 0 election was set aside upon that account, and a new writ Y i t issued. Now, the House may wish to know wh a t was the fir s step which the elected Members, Mr. Bruen and Mr. Ka va ,.; nagh, then took. Mr. Austin was counsel f or th e pet i t i o nt; —the successful counsel ; and mark, th e very moment t"" Committee decided that they should be unseated, that e ery i ", stant Mr. Austin was retained by them for theyetition till!' was to follow the next eleetion—(Great cheering thus Ina , r l ; ing the determination to bring the case again - before an c " - , - ; Committee ! Now I ask the House, did they ever bear of s u sf " a proceeding as that ?—( Cheers.) And do you wonder, that the gent r y o f I re l an d who play such pranks have not °-(1 authority there, and that he who stands up aga i ns t them, an for the p eo pl e , h as power an d influence in that country (Loud cheers.) I implore of you, take away that influell ; You can hav e it i n one moment , b y d o i ng j ust i ce to Irelan oo but by continuing injustice to Ireland, and injustice to mesas only augment it. Well, that was the situation of things. at I wrong, then, in looking out for a candidate to o ppose party ? Mr. Wallace had given little, I believe nothing; the that cont es t an d t h e pet i t i on. M r. Vi gors h a d had bo misfortune t o b e b e f ore a Comm i ttee, and any gentleman his hasbeen k twelve ohrat a quantityfourteen d of drymoney (a ss i days before s e of Ccalladi! House, is required on such an occasion. Mr. Vigors, who, althollgeb a gentleman of independent circumstances, was not so rib. as the Members for the county, had expended detests, Here, then, was a county vacant, and the popular i.O, excited by the outrages that had been committed on the dg, offending Catholic peasantry by the Tory landlo r d, What would the House think, w h en a remonstrance was mgof to the agent of one of those landlords against the cruelty te a these proceedings, and when he was told that the perse cu to peasantry who were ejected from their homes had nothing as eat—what would th e H ouse thi n k o f th e answer that o o made—" Let them eat each other ?"—( Hear, hear.) , te ll fact is denied, I a d m it ; b ut g i ve me a comm itt ee , and o f you lAN ill prove it. That was the situation of the ceont. l , o o Carlow when the new writ was issued. I had been nr" t ao to by a most influ en ti a l p erson in th e coun ty o f C ar low on o , subject of the election. But it was not enough to have. c fioe didates, because th a t generous an d p o p u l ar se lf-sacri which is so f am ili ar t o t h e c h eerers o f th e H onour able .7 0 , Learned Member for Bradford, who only think of patriotii: and never think of the pounds, shillings and pence wh ic s'eS contested election costs, were already in the field. Alas, f pounds, shillings and pence are absolutely necessary' sought but one gentleman in England who would becom e .ti a candidate for the popular - int ere st. We wrote to Ireland, "00 did all we could to procure another candidate ; but ivo ' c oo not able to find one who would face the candidates on, other side, after the determinati on th a t h a d b een exhibl: o t that all opposition was to be w orn ou t b y expense , and 'or there was to be another election petition. Under these circa el, stances what occurred ? Why pending the writ Mr. RaP bg alt as sheriff of London, came to the bar o f thi s H ouse , with of his paraphernalia of office. I saw hi m rece i ve d by Honourable Members in the most friendly manner. He s P od to me in the kindest terms—he wrote to me in the kindest t i e most flattering terms. People, indeed, had told me, more once, that there was no relying upon him—that he was a f a e o, less person. Why, Sir, I confess I never believed it.—( g be ee hear.) He was the first Catholic who, for 300 years, had 106 Sheriff of London. In Ireland for 45 years—l wish the 11° , 0 . to mark this—in Ireland for 45 years Catholics, had been oa pable of being members of the Corporation of Dublin ; a ds yet, during those 45 years, not one single C a th o li c was 111 .„ 3 a member of it.—( Hear.) Now recoll ec ti ng t h at f a ct, `"tl seeing that the Corporation of the City o f L on d on ha d else Mr. Raphael their Sheriff, I put this question to the W us bei if it be true what his ca l umn i ators say of him, why did t" not come forward and state it at the time of his electio n of their Common-h a ll ? B ut, i nstead of b eing accuse d , he d'ocot lauded. I found him then the Sheriff of the City of Lon an d expressing the strongest feelings with respect to Ireland, to the strongest anti-Tory sentiments. Why should I list en s, his calumniators ? Don't I know what calumniators ar e l i t al (Loud cheers.) Is it new to me that calumniators are a ° of the worst description ? Why, for the last thirty yearteeo, living man has been half so much assailed as I have belt Six times a-week in three Dublin papers, twice three papers in Dublin, once a-weak four papers in D" have been assailing me with calumnies.—( Hear, hear./ ,Da confess, therefore, that I disregard calumniators, and .ect disregard the calumnies against the first Catholic Sh,e rl asti London.—(Hear.) But what had he been doing? He been in constant communication with Mr. Vigors an te ed' Reform Carlow Committee (I mean those who were atl,o o ing the Committee of this House in London), telling ` O O 6 that he would become a candidate, and promising to hec to r the purchaser of an estate in C ar l ow . U n d er t h es e ei r i‘ c 01 / stances, where is my personal turpitude because I t e° tit ° the cause of Mr. Raphael, and recommended him t ° ,o.) county of Carlow against t h e T ory can did ates ?— (Che ,i 'doa, I took up the cause of th e hi g h Sh er iff o f t h e c i ty o f If - a tin and recommended him t o t h e county o f C ar l ow as a ,Pi-jesr", proper candidate. Is there any turpitude in that hear.) lam now separating the two parts of the eas e : , 0.7 personal grounds f rom t h e pecun i ary groun d s. There:' tbig case as to personal grounds; and is there any man ' fl at a House who will tell me that Mr. Raphael was not a s ( tb ° person to rep resent t h e county o f C arlow as e i t h e r ° an present Members? One of those Hon. Members b a i t ete, hereditary estate. It is said that he is descende d a INlacmurrough. He is certainly of high genealogy, ¢,; for large fortune ; but these do not give him a fee" P f is io o wishing the people of Carlow to be in a better aohu s ea —these do not qualify him to represent their wan ts ipt tan t their wishes. The other Hon. M em b er is a Gen t ' - ob a whose father purchased lands in the county of Carlow,bu doe' was a successful commissary in the American war that give him a title to trample on the people of Ua r.- s hin t ' (Cheers.) Mr. Raphael was a gentleman who W ag to ld dantly able to purchase land in that county—who b a the people that he would make suc h p urc h ase —who want t" Sheriff of L on don—wh o h a d proc l a i me d hi s a ttachl. 10 his those principles which I p re f er , an d w h o h a d even .