The Sun. — London, England, 1803-05-14 00:00:00

.'' }; :. J. ~: 1 J , t , avv stood at present, he said rheie was no place , • assigned for the trial of„persons who were Acres. series to the crime of wilfully sinking and destroy. lug Ships ; and in a very recent case, the grinC;pal, Or rather the Instrument, had been`capitally punish ed, whilst the more guilty Accessaries have escaped. He, therefore thought it was•highly important tl-at some provision should be made in this instance, as well as for the Aniendment of the'Law with resped to the crime of Manslaughter committed on the J High Seas. - The NIL was then read a first time, and ordered : i to be reads second time on Monday. f Lord - Nut/at moved that the House •should ad. l ) journ to. Monday. 1 , .. The Earl of DARNLEY said, he should refrain from n ioving an Amendment for the House meeting to.morrow ; but he was, notwithstanding, -of opi. nion, that under the present circumstances of the !. Country, the House ought to meet to.morrow in. stead el adjourning to Monday. He' then made some observations upon the censure which had been throw n upon him upon a former occasion by a Noble and Learned LoroL Earl SPENCER likewise declared his' opiniOn for the House. meeting to,:thorrow.,:but declined troubling their Lordships to divide upon the gilts. tion.• Thr LORD CHANCELLOR defended hi 4 con. , dui with respeel to the allusion made by the Noble . Lord (the Earl of DAR tatiey).andcontended that his condo& did not warrant the imputation thrown upon it .by the Noble Lord. As to the question itself, he thought it would ,be highly absurd for the 1 , House to meet to.morro'w meeety for the purpose of being the organ of communicating intelligence to those below the B a r, or tothe Public at large. • The Earl ofPArtxt. E Y explained. . The question . was rthen put and carried, and the House adjourned at half past nine o'clock till Mon. day. .. . . HOUSE OF COMMONS. FRIDAY, MAY r 3. Trtt Bill for establishing a Free Market for the Sale of Coals in the City of. London, was read a second,titue,.: rub committed to a Select Committee; the Petitions against tile Bili were ordered to be referred to the said Committee. ' Sir Geoitoz•Costr4zwiat, brought up a Report from the committee appoint cui to try file merits of Contested. I• 3 !ion forilishop'S Castle, which stated that the sitting Mern °cu. Wit.i.tara Ctivr, Esq. and . lonN RoarsisoN, Esq. Aer u nduly elected, and that the Petit i on-it frivolous and vet. os. A Person from the Commissioners of Excise presented se. feral Accanmta relative thereto. —Ordered to lie on the Ta ble. • The ATTORNEY GIEVERAL hronght up the Indemnity Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday. On the Motion of Mr. )7 NS ITTA kr, the House resolv ed Itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Silver Bullion Bill ; which went through time Committee, 'and the Report was ordered to be brought up v Mc! n oclaY next. • The Committee on the Medicine Duty Bill was postponed to Monday next. The Militia Families' Bill was read a third time. Sir Wll.4.lwra ELtoati proposed a Clause, by. way of ruler to it, which the House . agreed to, and the Bill passed. Mr. Ross( gave notice that he should move on Monday, that the House should agree to the three last Resolutions of the Coninuttee.appbinted to try the tricots ,of the ,Ilchester „ Elettion, and that an Address be 'presented to His Majesty, praying that hc would order the iktrORNE Y-Gl.stra yrosecute the parties. The House went into 4 Committee on the Bill for the bet ter Relief of the, Wives of Soldiet's and Sailors. Some verbal alterations were made;: the Report was then ordered to be brought up on Monday next.. A Message from the Lords stated, that they had agreed to several Private Bills without any Amendments. The - Irish Courts - of Law aill was read'a third, time, and passed. • The Committees of Supply and Ways and *ARS were postponed to Monday. gTATE . .Of THE NECOTIATIOI4; tird , GRANVILLE LEFESON said, he rose for the purpose. of Moving,' that the House should at its- rising adjourn tilt to.morrow. • In snaring this Motion he would not , repeat the argu. ments which ha been urged on 'Friday last, which appeared to him to be unanswerable.. The events which - had occurred si nce , Friday appeared to him cunlpletely' to justify those who' voted against, the • adjournment till Monday. • It would he in the re. colleftion of the House, that lheintelligence- which arrived after .that discussion completely contradia,, e d . the.statement : which had been made by the Mi. niiter. After the Right , HUM Gentleman had stated, that Lord 'Whitworth hats left Phis,. it. surely was a matter of sufficientimportance to haye C ommunicated to the HouseoaSaturday that he,had not left Paris. Lord Whitworth, , it. ,was . under. stood, remained at Paris, because some further pro. Positions bad been made ; similar circumstances ; might again occur; but at all events; it was proper that the House should be at its post to receive . any communication that Government might be enabled to make on so important a subjel : he, should therefore move, " That the House should, at its' rising, adjourn till to.morrow." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said ; he apprehended, that independent of the 'oh. jeaiori which lie felt to the Motion of the N o ble Lord, in point of substance, there was one; in ` point of form, which rendered it, he presumed, inadmis. Bible. Such a Motion, be,believed, was never al. • lowed to pass in that HoUse : as matter of cottrse, tile House would adjourn to to-morrow, without any Motion, unless it - should specifically determine to adjourn to some other tidy ; and, therefore, the Noble Lord's Motion was' needless as well at.unpre. cedented t the only way in which the Motion now, befOre the House could be regular in terms, would be that of an AmendMent, to a Motion to adjourn to some future day,:neither would that be agreeable to the regular, practice, until after asost of the hu siness whieb constituted the Orders of the Day wits over: the Noble Lord would, therefore, allow him to say, he was not well advised with respect to the t erms of his Motion.; he could have wished that the Noble Lord bad given notice, that after the Orders of.the 'Day, were disposed of, he should bring forward this subjtA, any Motion should !he made r - adiQurn over. to.morrow ; .rind the , Noble Lord wookl allow him to--say also, liat until 3 Motion of another deseription was made, :this course was irregular ; but the ',Noble Lord would 8"" `crave tin opportunity of sorsinitting the substance of his present ''MOti o n to t h e 1-leitse, tor he intended to move that the House do at its ii nit; adjourn to Monday nex t . Ha v i ng said . this upoo tLe total, he would now with the leave of snbitance of the MotiOn of the Ni;Ule LOrd. The Noble Lord had said, that the . cirCurtiitenees which had occurred had disproved. the statement m;nle His •Majesty's Ministers : the Mlle Lora ;vas not corred in, that statement. The statement made by His Majesty'sMittistets was not disproved by the circumstances 'which . hail anually occurred.--- It_ was stated by him, .this day seinnight,:n,-,tthat he was convinced that Lord Whit wortE had quitted Paris, for he had no knowledge of the faEt, but that he had reason to apprehend it, and that apprehension arose - froth his knowledge of the fad that General Andreossi had, applied for Passports. It was an in- ference of his front this fad and accompanying cit., cunititances, that Lord Whitworth had quitted'Paris, and he then believed that Lord Whitworthhad - qoit .ted Paris ; but he never said Lord Whitworth had - quitted Paris,--he made no such declaration. The Noble Lord had expressed hiti regret that the House ,did-hot sit on Saturday last, and he had added his conviction that many Gentlemen,. and this was..a circumstance worthy of observation, that many Gentietuen who voted in the- majority foran ad. journment to Monday, might regret the House did not sit. Now, he knew of no reason why tha t '.event should have excited any regret in the minds of any of the Gentlemen who voted in that .majo. rity ; he was, on the contrary, convinced it ought to be matter of satistaftiOn on the part of those who supported the Motion, that the House did not sit on the Saturday, as proposed by the amendment moved by an Hon. Gentleman. He alluded to the eireet - which might have resulted from their Sitting On that day, and he begged the House would pardon him far nut staring his reason for. saying this. It was, however, his intention, if the Noble Lord had - not superseded him, .to propose that the House should, at its rising, adjourn to Monday next, and-- that he intended to propose exidly as usual, with. out any comment, beirig pettedly prepared, how- ever, if any question was put to him by any Met.: ber of. the House, to answer it as distinctly as he Could, consistently with his duty. On Friday last he had stated to the House the opinion whiCh he entertained, which was, that Lord Whitworth was On his departure from Paris. He was notable, at present, to make any communication whatever to the House, or to, express an opinion whether Lord Whitworth was or was not on his way from Paris, hut there was no probability of any information . whatever. being received, so- as to enable him ,to make any communication from His , Majesty to that Itouse to.mirrow, The.Srentc ete *svOLLI4 ob. serve on the: regularity of the, Motion now before the House, after which, be presumed, the Noble. Lord would not persist in it ; and it sO, he should afterwards move, that the House dO, at its rising, adjourn to Monday next. /1/e.C4NNthq observed, that the Right Hon. `Gentleman who had just spoken, had stated two objeetior4sto the Motion now before the House : one in point of form, the otlici in point of- sub. stance. If, in point of form, the Motion was de fe4live, the Motion must fall,. because• it was irregular ; hut, until he heaid that' from . the Chair, .he should bet much inclined tei doubt the irregularity of this Motion; and .he doubted icon the ground, that the list Motnin upon this subjet, which was this day se'nnight, was entertained.—On that occasion the Right, Hon. gentleman Moved, is that the boost do, at its rising, adjourn to Monday next:" and the amendment proposed to that was, to insert' to-morrow, " and that wa s in su b s tance the Motion of hi s oble Friend today, and as all the Rules of the House were founded 'on good sense, he saw no reason why this Motion Should not be entertained in its present form—he could not'enter into any distinction which the Right: Hon. Gentle man intended to take, for hecould'norsee the dif ference between debating a thing in the shape of an, original 'Motion, and that of debating -the same . thing in 'the shape of an amendment to an original . Motion. The Motion now before the House was'., the very same thing in point of sense as the Amend_ .meat moved this day se'nnight by an HOnouralrle" Gentleman, anti which was debated for several. hours in that House, without any body being re buked or corrected for it. He was not aware ho* the matter could he objefied to now, not havin,e been objeCted to then. He ,confessed, however, .after having heard the statement of the-Right Han: Gentleman on his own Convielion, that the meeting o f the House to-morrow would not enable him to ' make any-Communication to the House ; he should, for one, not wish to press for a division -; bin here, again, he must take the distinetion of the Right Hon: Gentleman, who .said he had forMerly spoken his opinion,'as it was formed inconsequence of the condun of the French Ambassador; that from that cotidud he drew certain inferences. The Right HOn. Gentleman was, however, he hoped, speaking not again on conjeaore, but from some assurance that to-morrow he would not be able to make any Commtmieation to . the House.; if that was the eitse, the Houle should not take the trouble of meeting, be. catiseit would be only meeting in vain ; but then he wished to understand the Right Hon. Gentleman dis. tindly whether he now said, that he should not be able . to make any communication to the House to-morrow If he did not say so, he thought the Hattie should - be pressed- to a division, anti he 'should press it to a‘division, in order that those who felt as he did, and.as his Noble Friend felt, that this was not a time. when the House of commons should consult its own east, nor be even too scrupulous in adhering to its own usages, when either might 4c al variance with its great Public Duty. On. the contrary, it was a time when the House of Commons should he unremitting in its labours, for the purpose of at-- tending to the interests of the Country : the House of Commons was the , proper •organ for conveying information, from the Ekeeutive Government to the People ; it nught therefore to be an irs post, and be vigilant; nor could he help Ihinking, that a communication from the Executive Government to Parliament, was a more constitutional source of, ie. formation, than a . placard on die Stock Exchange, upt*s the question of Peace and War.. He did nor think it consistent with the. duty of the House of Commons to put itself into a .situation in , which r the.wauld not hav e t h e means of receiving infor_ mation from the Eiectitive Governtrient arid eon veying it to the ;People, and ,that.. for- no better ' %nullity. . „ 11.4. CHANCEL.QI; i'll3l. EY.:IjEt2:I.IER 04. served, :that the osservations of :the last Speaker were fairs upon Cu supposition that a Cotrimunica_ timr,might be mad: to the House to.mossd ‘ o on the substance of the Motion now before the Hoitse ; but on the regularity of the Motion he should appeal•to • the Chair, from which the House would derive cor led knowledge tydri the subject :- he jihould be ashamed to refit' to his own'khoWledge, although his attention had for Many yeari been difeaed to the subjeCl.• He appealed to the Chair, whether, unless an Adjournment was proposed to a day after the morrow, it ever was expressed other thaoas he had stated-'—oatnely, " that this - House do no'w ad - j.:urn. What he Itad said • this night, had not 'been correctly repeated. lie had said, that'he was thoroughly convinced that no Communication would be made to His Majesty, to enable His Majesty to make a Cominunication to the House tomtorrow— he thought that no Communication ought to come from His. Majesty. to that House, until it was known that the Negotiation had taken a satillaCtory turn, or was totally broken off—until Lord Whit. worth had arrived in this Country. He begged pardon, he knew he was irregular—he would go further, and say, he saw nu probability of being able to make aoy, Communication whatever to the House to.morrtiw--tliai svas his opinion ; but if he thought there was a chance of that, he should think it ioetimbent on him to make a Motion to adjourn to 'Monday 'next, because he could not reconcile it to %elm was dde to the Dignity' of the House, or to the feelings of this Country, that -the House shoold sit titi an unusual 'day, for the mere chance of a ComMunicatlon. The present Motion was not formal or regular, and on which, therJore, no proceeding- could be had. • • - Mr. GSM' said, that the motion of the Noble Lord was in'sociV a forM, that the House could. nut Consistently with rules, and with stria propriety, adept it ; but after that motion was disposed 'of in point of form; the House would have to consider whether it ought, under the present extraordinary circumstances, to adjourn to Monday, or to sit to. morrow.. When assertions came from such authority as that, offthe Right Hon. Gentleman, they came with great weight : if 4 was convinced ,that no communication cotta in r4et be made from His Ma. jesty to the House to.morrOw, 'he, should accede to S!le inltiwi of AdiOtirOWOJ t 0 Monday ; • but when . the Right - Hon. Gentleman expressed, some doubts opoO that matter, and as it might happeo that the fisose might require some ioformation which the Right Hon. Gentleman might thinis .improper for hian s to communicate, he owned he had some.doubts as to the prOpriety• . ef adjourning even to Monday. He wished the Hotase to recollect a little the situa. lion in which it was: it was now a week since the Right Hon. Gentleman made ,an important and alarming communication, which disappointed • the House of almost' all hopes of an amicable termina. tion to the Negotiation: Since that, the Right Hon. Gentleman stated to the House, that untl:re. • seen and :uitexpeCled circumstances had prevented • Lord Whitworth from leaving Paris on the Wednes day, yet that matters would in a few days come to a decisive issue, and that he expeded information in a few days. Now he wished the House to con. shier its,situstion s and examine into the - propriety of adjourning over tomorrow. He knew that: on the day when the Right Honourable . Gentle.. man had stated that Lord Whitworth was ex.; pried to have left Paris, intelligence had arrived to certain Members in that Flouse, that night while the.HoUse. was sitting; he' hid received intelligence himself that very night in the Hoe. , that Lord Whitworth. land nut left Paris, for the truth of Which, if doubted, 'he - could appeal to many of his friends about him. Now he wished' to know, how the Right Hun. Gentleman conid be sure that 'the decisive result, •of which he bad spoken, m would not arrive here to.orrow . ? How could he say .such decisiVe result might not adually arrive this night before the House adjourned ? Why, then, was it too much to ask s that the House should sii to.morrow, when the Minister 'would, according to, all probability, be able to state to the House ihat.decisive result for 'which the House and the• Public had so long and so anxiondy waited I Let -the House remark th tilifereoce of the situation now and that of Last I , . On last Friday the . Minister told the House t . t no intelligence could It arrive that night, an assertionsfaisitiedby the event, for intelligence did arrive, and at the very some time %ellen the Minister said there was none. The Minister had said to.night, he was glad the House did not sit on Saturday last ;and he beerrh , tl to con. gratulate the House, that it did not assemble ; .and as a Minister he seemed to express a great deal of desire to hnpress the House With an idea of mystery, and to create alarm, for he 'had expressed much ap. prehension from the consequences which might Nye followed if the House had sat on Saturday. What these 'Cruisequeocer might have beers, besides time Public deriVing information froin the proper Chan. eel, he Was unable to comprehend. Now the • Honk was told, • that, information could not ..be: given to-morrow i he hardly Saw why not ; he' thought; there was , every probability that the Messenger would arrive this night or tosmorrow morning. --How then could the' House he said-to be , in a state in which important 'commonication might not be made to it ri.anorrow ? '' No,'' said the Minister—and why i •," Because, forsooth, my Lord Whitworth is not ;strived. in this Country." Nosy the noose would recoiled, the Right lion. Gentle. pats told them last Friday,' that all the Papers by which information, was to he conveyed; were actual. ly in the Press.; he should be glad to know.-why, as Ministers were in possessiorr•of4that decisive te.. suit which the Right finn,:!Gotletitan talked of, shotill not the anxiety - ofAhesjflouse and of the Ptibi ic. be relieved,' 1 - le.scould:l - 14 comprehend that I;sarrival of my Lora Whitworth should be essen. tial i c or tht purpose. - Bat the communication may i be , oelt as that His . Mejesty's issliOisters . migh( not : Wish It) lay too soon Wore titet Mime:, to which, he would answer,. any inlomilt ion Was • better:than suspense. ; and alt tai; arguin,:lzs (,1 the Cu,sric C L. L 0 R 1,1 the I' c 1-1 F.,,,y; r. k, it i!tds!ed An t COOlti be cilledArgu;nent• whits' ,eonsisted:ooly Of asstrtion,. sFood on rite suppoSit ion of an uolorsseen rssult, whielt he haired was riot hogii-cs but which would to t3it kl`r 4 Nt be; tVli;stt lae ifdPel to udr honour and sittisiadirn; the thile bithe House niisspefit in waiting folsoii.:i'; result; But Sattitday - was an ;O; ilre House to sit. He *wild not io over that arAs-0rn61,,.. nvich at he would observe; tlor rt wJi by no means uncommon for the . 1-rotrse to sit cry Saturday, for the purpcise oftrausading, Very mon and ordinary, and sorri-!irces e7en prilite ness. 'Upon these grounds he intist sal, th'ai not satisfied by what he had !mud rrom - the ster, concerning the propriety of the flotise'a.sooro,: ing until Monday. - The Right Hon: Gentles ni said, there was no probability of any inforMation arriving to enable His Majesty to,Make a Cotruttu.; nication to the Hous to-morrow, and that ellen; communication could not be made until My Lon! . Whitworth arrived in this Couniry if this was th 4 rule by which we were to judge, hesatv no reason to conclude that we 'may not fie in the same situa. tion next Friday as we ate at this moment.' ' The CHANCELLOtt of • the Excqitto F. rt. filth; te....; ferred to the Chair, On the subjed of the regularity of the Motion now befire the House. The SPEAKER said, thOnefore the debate pro. ceeded . any further, lie rose to say, that to the fornti of the question proposed by the Noble Lord to'be put to the House, he was' not prepared to state to the Houte, from hiS . own memory or reading,'•anr. one instance, except, that of last Friday, of such a 'A/lotion being offered to the House in such terms, and it did not appear to him° to be consistent with the orders and forms of the proc,:rdings. - of the' House. The CIii:NCELLOR efrtbe . .6XCHEeCIER saidichat the Hon.Mernber who bad just sat dOwri had stated, and•stated truly, tbat on Monday last; he informed the House, that probably the discussion . at Paris would be .brought to a'alecisive result in the, course of a-few.days, that - of the fldlowing day, Wednesday morning—it was perfedly true, he had said so, and he wasaustitied in expressing,that con.. vidion, but circumstances had occurred which did produce some delay, but Whiclrdelay would be • considerable ; what these circumstances were, he was sure the House would not'ask him to disclose, but it was on those circumstances of that delay, that he Should desire • the Noble ~Lord to withdraw his Motion, arid then move thOt of 'which. he.r had this night given notice. • . The NAtle Lord', Motion was then withdrawn. l'he'Crt4sieeLLok of the ExcusQuei t moved, that - the House should at its rising adjourn to Monday next." Mr. HENRY .I,4SCELLES said, he wished to say'a few words, merely to defend his own coatis* tency with reference to the vote .%vhielt he gave oti Friday last, and to. the condua he shotild adopt this night.' When the question of adjournment was proposed on Friday last, he gwe his vote upon the .best judgment he could exercise upon the merits of • • the question, and he was still of opinion, that in giving the vote he did upon that occasion, he had aced consistently with his duty. With resped to the question now before the House, he was still of opinion that it would be better that the'House should sit tomorrow, but, for the reasons he should give, he,was determined to give no wits upon the subjeft. After the vote he gave on Friday last, he, fa - 11nd hiMself in a situation which he - did not expect;, he had stated in the few observations which he had submitted to the' House upon that occasion, that it Was by no means his intention to prejudge the ge, neral question, btiu when he came to vote. he found himself voting with Gentlemen, who were generally considered as the syStematie opposers of Givern. 'merit (here there .'was oer) et' Order"), he meant that they were always in the habit of Opposing Ministers, and therefore he was sorry he had give() that vote,. as it might appear as' if he had, to a cer. - tain degree, prejudged the question-. Mr. FOX said, he rose to say a feW words, in consequence of some•ObservatiOns which had fallen from the Honourable Gentleman, and which ap peared to him', to b a little 'singular. The Hun. Gentleman lamented that he had been induced to . vote on Friday last, with those whom he charade. rised as the systematic oeposers of Ministers, but as the Houisurable Gentleman.h ai t 'stilted, that h e :had voted upon the merits, of the question, he did not think that the vote he had given called fur such strong marks of penitence. If thee-Honourable Gentleman felt such concern, for once voting with thc systematic , opposers of Ministers, he might frequently be placed in an unfortunate' situation, because whenever these systematic opposers happen. ed'to agree in opinion with him, he would be un. der the necessity of not . vdting for a qUestien which he approved, or he must vote ih•coMpany'he did not like. • But however unpleasant the Honourable Gentleman's situation would be in that point Of view, it would be still:mory so, if he should hap,' peri to take a similar dislike to the systematic tin f 7. porters,of/Vlinisters, for then it would he extremely' difficult for him to deeida , IMO 10 should vote. The Honourable Gentlemanbad shewn much more peni. tence upon the occasion' , than in, his opinion it re quired, because he had. declar.d, that he had voted according to the bust of his judgment, upon the merits of the question, How such a vote could be a subjea latnentation, he could not immediately discover, because he always understood that to be theway in which Member; of Parlianient might 'to Vote upon every question. Brit the, 'Honourable Gentleman seemed' 'ids° to labour under some appre. . !tension that he might-be supposed to have prejudged the quotion ; bow the Honourable. aentletnati Came to entertain such an - apprehenston,; he could not 'imagine, because there was not one word said upon' the question of Peace or War, in the discussion to which , the' Honourable Gentleman alluded. 11, hoWever, the Honourable Gentleman kid prejudged the qnestiott by his vote that day, it would gratify hit curiosity very highly, if the Hort.litrable Gen tiemarvwOubi tell. Mitt on which side he had pre. judged it, for without atome farther ieformation, he was really unable to form a. goo upon the •fitthjed... Did the Honourable Centleman'apprehend,, th,it byvoting ll with the systematic opposers of l‘preiut. liintst i e t r: ; ', who were- genertilly cPtoijercd. itsi strong •advocates for Py;:ii:c,..bc,might stn.iloseo to have the qa:.!stion am favour: of Pen; ? If thjt w 4, 014 cause of die i:l o nourab;e Gentleman's atom, h only t Ipok at some of the company, with MIOIII