The Sun. — London, England, 1803-06-21 00:00:00

qUNIEER .i 356.; LIVER (AL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. MONDAY, JUNE 20. Cotytrir.t. were heard at considetableslength, relative to the I Appeal Thellussons v. Thellussons, and His Majesty's At torney General ; after which their Lord Ships adjourned the Further cons - ideration of the Case till Thursday. 00 the Motion of Lord E LLENBOR 0 UQH, the Amendments trade by the Commons,to the Capital Offence Regulating hill, were taken into consideration, in the course of which, tlis - Lordship, in answer to a question . put by Lord Stt E Eta), stated that the Bill in question did rot extend to Ireland, because Ireland was to be alreded by a separate ~ -The Amendments were then. read and agreed to by their 1 ordships. Lard PELHAM presenfed Copies of certain Surveys of the Coast of Scotland, &c. which, after a variety of Obser vations relative4o the general sullied . , tram •Lord SUF.. oLx, in the eTiurse of which he stated his opinion that Covernment' should give every pradicable a-sistance to the project of the Caledonian Canal, and an elinr-tte the condi_ tion of die lower order of people in Scotland, particularly the Highlanders, Which were ordered to lie on the Table. ' Lord FE.3. - tram. sppke shortly in .explanation, in conse quence of same pbirds which tell from the Noble Earl. , DEFENCE OF THE COGI , ITRY The Order of - the Day being moved for takiOg' Uis Majesty's IVlessage on- this subjed into con_ siderarion, the same was accordingly read. Lord ROB ART rose to move an Address to His Majesty on the occasion of His most gracious Mes r.age„ He observed it was unnecessary he should take up much of their Lordships' time in order'to: . induce them to agree to the' Address—for whatever difference of opinion might obtain as to the manner in which the force recommended in His Ma jesty's Messar should be raised, he was sure there could be Itto cne sentiment' as to the necess4 Of• having recourse to such a measure. Under the'pre sent circumstances he thought it incumbent on him' 'to state the outlines of the plan which it was the intention of His Majesty Government to propose on The present occasion. It 'was judged necessary to pl'ace the Country in such a situation of Defence as not only to render it secure against every attempt which may be made by the enemy ; but to place it in such a state as to render the succep Of any attempt so little likely as to deter an adversary from making it-What he should.then state would certainly be no more than a mere outline of the measure it was. proposed to adopt, and chiefly with a view to tnable their LordshipS to be the better prepared or the discussion, when the details of the measure Should come regularly before the House.—Previous to his stating the outlines of_ theplan, the Noble SL•eretary took occasion to assure their Lordships that every possible exertion had been made by Ftis Majesty's G'iternment to increase the regular force of the country, and to put the same on the most re peaable footing. With resped however to the pre-, se nt crisis, and the measure in contemplation, it was, pe cts l; ar ty 7teee .„ ar i_ t h a t extraordinary efforts should ' be made. He was aware that such a large force as was row necessary, could not be raised, without more or less interfering with the Industry and Agricul ture of the Country ; but every possible regard would be had to those considerations, which, how_ ever, he thought, were but trifling, when corn- Pared to the magnitude of the Objeas to be at tained on the other hand, He then proceeded to . state, the outlines of the Plan in question—which being exactly similar to those 'stated by the War Allinister, in the other House of Parliament, we feel the less necessity of Tegularly following. After Stating' the numbers which were raised for the Troops Of the Line and the Militia Coro, &c. in the pre. sent, and comparing the same with what had been done on those occasions, in the late War, he stated geuerally, .that the additional Force proposed _ . to be raised, in comemplating the Subjed before the liouse, was 40,000 Men, for Great Britain and the Islands in the Channel s and 10,000 for Ireland ; that the services of the Men so raised were to he inter changeable, with respea to both Countties, With ie.: • Bard to the consideration of officering theSe Levies, it . . was proposed rso be done by persons havingArmyrank, from the 1-111 f-pay List, Officers of Fencible Corps, and also by Officers who had been in the East India Company's Service—from those sources there was do doubt of 'procuring the men proper Officers. It was intended that the Levies should be Made . on the principle of the Militia Ballots, in the different Counties, Distrifts, (Itc. or by Volunteers-, as in the Militia ; that they should be enrolled for- seri. vice; that they should he taken from the age of 18 years to that of 4s. -With respel ,to the men in :ireland, they were to be raised' on the principle of the Militia in that part of the kingdom, which ex_ tended 'to the mode of enlisting, as well as raising by ballot.' 'lt would be provided that those who may be so disposed, should have power to enlist into the General Service,. and whiclv.,of course, may be. .a means of increasing our Disposable Force. --After some farther remarks upon the• nature and intended disposition of the force to be raised as above, his Lordship said, lie was aware -that to this plan many objetlions may be urged ; but it Was one which, on the most most mature delibera tion, His Majesty's Ministers deemed to be that, under all the circumstances, Which would be most efficacious. and-at the smite time least objelionable : hut any Noble Lord was at liberty 'to suggest any plan which he might think more likely to answer the purpose in view, or to propose any .alterations . !hat which should be brought forward. He trusted that every 'man in that House would support the Rill which would be intro . dUced,' for the purpose of. • carrying the measure, of which he had sta'ted the out_ line, into effta. The Noble Secretary of State .concluded by moving a corresponding Address to Fiji Majesty, on his most gracious 'Message. On the question being put, • , The PUKE of CLARENCE rose and delivered his sentiments on the occasion at considerable length. In the course of .his - obset'vations, the Royal Pulcc sa.ict,. that the outline of the measure just stated by the Secretary of State; was less objeaionable than that which the Public at large seethed to have had 'an idea of. Still what was proposed did not meet his approbation, but, though he . deemed him Self free' to animadvert upon what was proposed, he was one of the last men •in the Cohutry to throw any obstacles in the way of His Majesty's Ministers, or say any thing that would tend to damp the spirit and ardour of the country. His Royal Highness here adverted to the cause the country had for going to war with France. Malta was not, as had been asserted by some, the cause; it arose from the op_ pressive, restless, and outrageoui spirit of ambition which aauated the ,Tyrant who governs France ; it was that which forced this country into•the War; it therefore became .all those who wished well to the constitution and independence of these realins, to stand -forward in their support, and •to .none could he more properly appeal, on such an occasion, than to the Members of sthat • Hotise. • His Royal Highnes , .i then entered into some detailed animadversions upon the proposed plan, in the course "of whiCh he referred to the exertions which were made by. England . in her defence on the occasion of different Invasions, or apprehended descents at dif ferent periods of itillistOry, beginning with the at tempt at invasion by the Spanish Monarch; in the feign ofQueen Elizabeth, and'ending with the lacier periodS of the recent War ; and observed, it was with great satisfaCtion they, could contemplate the "uc cessful exertions made' England in its defence, in former periods,. particularly utaler the liltistrious. Princess•above alluded tO. He panegyrised the Mi litia InstitLtion,..inddwelt on the brilliant serVitcs they had performed', when they had the opportunity of displaying their,gallantry, while n active service. The Royal Doke lik,ewise pronounced an eulogium on the gallantry' and discipline - of the Laod )'::tees in general - of Great Britain. He observed that the efforts of the country should be in proportion to its increased population, and adverted to some expe dients which he conSideted as likely to be serV able'on the present occasion. He particularly allud -ed to the situation of the Highlanders, whosevyabi.. cities as soldiers, he deemed to be superior to th tse of any other Country. He disapphoved of the measure as he had heard the outline stated ; he also disapproved . • of the principle of Delo:sive War, and he stated. the • advice which he should give the,King on such an occasion.: he would propose the ,levy of a Body of Troops who Should, be engaged •(o serve in any quarter, North, East, South, or West ; they should •be enlisted on the most solemn promise of their being discharged at the end of the . War, or as soon after as praEticable .thns would a great disposable Force be obtained, and all menaces of-invasion set at defiance. He cared not what was the naval force of France and'Spain. If this force of the enemy .dared to come out,_they would never return to their own ports and it was difficult to sny- r wluit.,_ under the tyranny of the ambitious man who now ruled .France, might not be attempted, He should not oppose the proposed 'measure ; but he could not forbear from expressing his sentiments as he' had done. Earl G ROSY ENO!? meant to trouble their L.rd ships very shortly : he agrerd wiill much of what had fallen from the Royal Duke, yct he thdught the ,outline stated by the Noble Secretary worthy the serious consideration of the House. He hoped - no impediment ivould be thrown by it in the way of recruiting the troops of the line, or of keeping up' the militia forces. His Lordship then stated some objeaions which struck hitri. as applicable to the proposed mode ; be seemed to allude to the practice of balloting, and observed, that many of those who were drawn for the militia, were in fact represented. by others. This he• regarded' as a' defect' in the militia system. The • Noble Earl then alluded to _some . regulations which he thought Would conduce .to the welfare of the services, chiefly in the view' ,of a speedy levying of the men, and in away which .he considered as likely not to interfere with the re. cruising' for the line. The Ear lcf CARN ARVON made a number of observations on the Conduct of Ministers,. and on the Cause of the War. The War, in faa, as it appeared from the Documents, .he considered - to be fora Lease of Malta, for ten years, and 'afterwards for the Island of Lampedosa.---With respect to the points in question, he censured the. mode of levying by ballot, as it obtained'in the Militia, as.a species of taxation,' and a proceeding, which went to transfer the Expence from the Public Purse to the Individual, 'on whom it \ should fall.. He concluded, by observing, there was more danger to be 'apprehended to the country, from the mal-administration ,of its Af fairs, than from the.efforts of the Enemy. The DUKE of CLARExCE spoke in egplanation, as did Lord HOB ART. The Earl of SUFFOLK did not rise to objet} to the proposed meastire, but to make alew observa tions as a - military man, He thought, as was the pra&ice with all the Roman Governors, that every Commander should be furnished with a, military plan of the Country ; there should r be.a general Mi. litaiy Plan of Defence for the Country, and methods. arranged for a quick conveyante of the Troops from one point of attack to another, as occasion may ; there should be also - efficient Deputy Lieu. tenants, to aft - in the absence of the Lord Lieute. pants of the Counties ;—above all, are Troops, should be commanded by Officers of whom the Country entertained a high opinion ;• he.. instanced Lord GREY. He also alluded to another Noble Commander, of whose exploits he spoke most high. ly ; he was one who had given the Country Peace ; - they had almost torn the laurels from his brow— Earl-GROS4E No R spoke to order. In consequence of which a variety of observa_ tions were interchanged upon the point of - Order, between theDLTKE of Ctaazsci) Earls Geo4v.i. , :,,. 4, Lic..., , 3 "fr „„,,,,...,,, ,„ -„,,,.., . Otii‘.‘ % 1 q 'zi ' h ih l i ;,; I UESDAY,- JUNE 21, 1803. y E 4 I , 4vr- )-N NOR, and SUFFOLK, the LORD CHANCELLOR, 11.1 d the Earl of C-,,,RYSFOiiT, the course Of which the Noble and Learned Lord-_ seemed to say, what had fallen from the three first Speakers was, stridly speaking, out of order. • The Earl of CARLISLE said a few words on the same point ; and Earl SUFFOLK offered a fe4 ad ditional observations, rather explanatory of what he had advanced in the first instance. The Earl of MOIR4, Who had: been alluaed to by the last speaker, in terms of high estimation, said,' he was pettedly satisfied with the destinatido his SOvereign had assigned him; and he assured the Noble Earl and the House, that he should draw his sword with as much ardent ze4l, as a private in the rank.; of a corps of Yeomanry, as at the head of an Army :he thou g ht the Noble Earl perledlk in order, in what he - had advanced. With resped to the question before the House, he did not-,rise to object to the Address—he should' feel it his duty rather to smooth the way for the per6rmance of the arduous duty of Ministers as mach as he could. At a time when the most energetic exertions cy,.-e to be ex.nled froM Ministers, they certainly should have the most unshackled command of the Resources - , of ,the Country ; though . other plaps might be sug gested, yet they should' consider how. far such con: dad might protrad ; the hour of efficient exertion. With resped. to the Noble .Stcretary's idea of lOOking forward to future Parliamentary discussion, the .House • should . consider how ptecioos was the present time, not one hour should :be lost. While they were d e bati n g, th e ene my w as ading : , —they will not wait fur the regular disrsition of our force ; . they will he upon us. • On the rot} of March,. the. Message came down to the House, Ministers must at. that time hive seen that War was inevitable, and now, in the Middle of jute, they came down with the present measure :, that ;i.,a,not•the way to deal with the enemy we, had to contend With. We .Should be in a condition to meet him elsewhere, than in this country : we should meet him on' thoSe !ands where the inhabitants groat under his tyranny and oppression.. Since the last debate, one . of the most valuable Possessions of the Sovereign was' wrested from him ; it was the duty, and should', be the pride of Britons, to defend those Hereditary Do minions of a Sovereign who had.so nobly cAtirn!oted his personal interests, 'sooner than -- derogate from the safety and honour of this country. • 13': this loss we were deprived of an opportunity,of ading against the rear of the enemy, in the event of' certain Conti. Proud operations.. He - agreed with the 'Royal Doke as to the real cause of the War. He deprecated the idea of a defensive system; defensive war was a so lecism; it was defeat in the first instance. 'Another system Of operation must be adopted, or we were undone— " Rise, .rise, rny.County " You must you will perish." • - • pteeeeerieti-r-.4n if .the,,Catlrie of a Speech not less argumentative and` eloquent, to de liver sentiments upon the very important subje6t before the House but his leadings,:points were in illustration of those principles which he laid down in the outset. Lord MULL R AVE complimented thelast Speaker on the display of patriotism arid eloquence. which appeared. throughout his speech : the Noble •Lord then delivered. his own sentiments at some length, tin the subjeA before the House.: in the course of which he spoke in .approbation of the projed laid down by. the Noble Secretary, as wise, and likely to be .effeatial ; he 'only, lamented that it was not now in aFtioit, and the - Troops under arms. Lod HonAitT.spokein explanation. ' The Earl of 'LIMERICK agreed with the last Speaker, with '.reSpea' to the admirable - and patriot. tic Speech of 'The' Noble Earl - who preceded - him.— His Lordship then, 'after a fewobservatioits on the mode ofle4ing Men-for the-Militia, &c. expressed his approbation • of the, , IVreasure proposed by the- Noble Secretary of -State, as combining the cap_ bilities' of offensive as well as : defensive Opera.. tibn. The Mike of CLAitENCE spokein dcplanation. deied. • The Duke . of hIr.HMOND krivered - his senti ments, in•some detail, and adverted to the' nature of the System of Continental - and offe ns ive Wars which, in a great degree, depetAed upon circum stances. He' seemed, upon ; the whole, 'ratlir verse to the proposed Plan, -as tendirg too Much to interfere with the' Agricultural Coocerns of the Country. He • suggested- some . Expedients which might, he thought, answer the proposed end. , . . - Earl FITZVILLI AM made • ome observations on the present Militia. System, and expressed his aver sion for a War, conducted .entirely on defensive principles.. . Lord GREIVVILLE. ,spoke at some length, and with great ability. He. agreed with much of what . had fallen from- a Noble Earl (MonOk) and severe ly zeprehended the -condo& of .Ministers in not coming forward .sooner, when twelve months ago they_ must know that War would be the alter native : their supineness and want, of energy had increased the danger ten-fold. He 'contended that by a timely and vigorous interposition, iheEleaoral Dominions of His Majesty might have been saved. He was in favour of . Vigorous and decisive measures—compthrory if necessar);—be 'tween the Sovereign and the Suhk&, proteftion and assistance and support were reciprilcal ; on these. principles Society was founded-r—and it vas the lead. jog principle of the British Constitution. Ile agreed with those who thought that the \Var was not-for . Malta alone. After arguing some time .00 these general grounds, his - Lordship seemed to express himscif rather unfavourably as 'to the specific plan, but the Motion he would not oppose, being unWill,- - jog that, in the present crisis, the measures of Go vestment Aihould•receive any obstraiinn from . hiM. I 1, r ilf i: 74f Y> +. ey ,f l , r 4 - - - ,-.-- - .:: •-. t M.. -- -1 ~, 4 .zz,„. :;,: ..-.. . 4 I .‘t: I, ..„... . 1 ~ . n Ak ., 4 . 1 1::;- _ --......:1 F,,..•,...- A w l; I 2 . : ~... .....f Z..? . 4 7 - ~ 4,,V , , ........7.,„,,,,, , • ..._ ‘;‘/,,, ....., \,/,,... ♦ ", 116. ''' , ...yk .1 ..... " - '! .. IPRICESIXPENCE. Lord .HO s ART, the Dike of RtrrkAllD, and Lord GB E,NVILLE, severally spoke in explanation. Lard ,SVIEFFILLD concluded the debate by saying, that in voting for the Address he wished not to be supposed to . agree that the plan of dtftnce pro. posed was the best that could be seletted; On the Contrary, it appeared,to him the most opplessive, most provoking, and most expensive that 'could haVe been chosen. He considered that if the pro position passed into a law, there would be a ballot for upwards of t i 0,060 men within three months, and if the number should ever be coMplete, .which he - much doubted, thit the wives and fainilies of those t to,ooo 'ten, must all fall on their prishei. . . The question was then put, and the Address voted, nem. dig. and ordered to be presented to His Majesty in the usual way: Their Lordships, in a Committee on the Clergy Residence Bili, mat's some further amendments therein, and the House resuming, received f ro fr, rm a the - Report, ordered the Bill to beprinted, and the Report to be taken in to 'consideration on WettleSdaV • • The New Loan -and oi-lier Bills were brought up from . the Commt4l4, a. el lead .a first time, after , : vhich their Lordships, at a quarter past ten o'ciccki adjourned till to.rnorrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. MONDAY, JUNE 20. liriltsr reading the Rep Oft of the Exeter Road. Bfll, a „clause by which certain expences were to have been throw t i upon the Ci'y inattot of the - County at large,. was Objeded to, and a short debate took plaCe, upon wiii,;ll the House divided, '.For rejecting the clause, - §r" In support of it, • - t '34 . The , Loan Bill read a third time and passed. KtNG's MESSAGE. - The SECRETARY•ar WAR moved the Order of the Day for taking._ His Yijesty's most gracious Message of Saturd;v last into consideration — ,— Order being read, he moved; that the House do novti.resolve itself into - a Committee of the. whole. House to consider of the said.iViessage..-oidercd. That the Sr F. AKE a do now leave the Choir.—Or- The House, then resolved itself ilito a Com. mittee of the whole House upon the Message ac.► cordingly, Colonel STANLEY in the Chair. His Majesty's -Message,being read, The SECRETARY at WA A! said, he was now about to call the attention of the Committee to His - Majesty's. most gracious Message, which had been just read,, and which Message presented three main objets to the consideration of the Committee. First, for. providing in the-most effielnA mariner for• the better Defence and -Security of the United King.: dom ; Secondly,,to provide a large disposable force for offensive. operations; and he conceived it did not' require much argument to !.I.ove, that in the pre sent cOnjunEture it Was-become the bounden duty of Parliament to use every-means within its power most Lkely to be efreaual 'toivards this most impoitant arul neet's . Sify''ailletf)i4.-1134-tal)Ei,diiLLAllis should be done with the least possible . In considering the. first of these obj:as, n3mely, Protedi n and Security to the .United Kingdom, with refe rence to the state of our. 'defence both Naval anCI Mill tary at the present moment, with reference also to' the a6lnal state and weans, of the Enemy, the posts that each occupied, and their present . condition, he could not but express his conviction, founded as it Was pria deliberate view of the whole of this sub.. jet, that a considerable reinforcement-was advise. able for us to make. When he said this, he must be understood to speak with reference to the 'extra ordinary circumstances which we .had the misfor tune to feel, peculiar to the, most extraordinary time in which we live, and, also to the most extra. ordinary . condua of that most extraordinary per son, who-was now the sole depositary of the mense powerof France. Under other circu m stances, and if menaced only by the ordinary dangers of ..War, such as ,we. had known, and formerly felt, he should have felt no.hesitation in expressing hiS firm opinion, that the Forces.which we now have on foot, or shall have within a short time, connected With our decided superior Naval farce, would have entitled us to look with contempt on the means to be used 'by the enemy against, us. Speaking of ordinary times, an d calculating upon the ordinary dangers of War, and indeed of almost any dangers to which this Country had been 'exposed 'until within the last ten - years, And , when we. had i+o,ooo men raised— when we had such a supp!emetitary force . as wa s or- tiered to be raised; if that. -should be d on e— an d c o nneaing that' with the powerful Navy which we Po ssessed had ready, and were now preparing, we should be entitled to look with contempt oh the preparations of the enemy. That in ordinary times, and under ordinary circumstances, he said, we dlould, from a view of all -.this, be justified in looking on the preparationi of the enemy with con tempt, .and say, that-if . they dared to make the at_ tempt they menaced, they would fall a sacrifice to :their presumption--they would be sent to the bot tom of the sea, or blown to pieces by the cannon of our brave Countrymen on shore, who would crowd mos t readily and eagerly to receive, them. Such, he • would say, would be his language• ordinary times and circumstances of ,War between this Country and France, but the present circumstances were, different, and therefore different language should be used; and without under-rating the dim,. ger to which we were exposed, we must be prepared to meet it., although the probability was that only a certain number of men might be thrown on -the coasts df Great BritairLand Ireland, yet it was his opiniim, that althdugh.such will always be the fate of such an atre.mpt .against the indep&pdence •and even existence of this Country, Still it was our business to prepare as-if the apprehension was much more alarming to us. He said he was justified in conceiving that such was likely to be - the ultimate