The Sun. — London, England, 1821-02-10 00:00:00

TARLIAIVENT, ROUSE OF LORDS; FEB. 9. . • The Howe sat on Appeals till- o'clock. COllll - were heard in the case of " Sinclair v. Man son"—Judgment postAned.. Counsel-were also hoard on the Appeal case of a Norhury v. Mead" (from the Court . of Exchequer), and the further consideration postponed till Wednesday next. — Adjourned till Monday. _ •-i , IIOUSE , OF- COMMONS. . ,ITLA.CK KS' 11R IDC:E. • `,..1 7 he SPEAKER being informed that the Sheriffs o:theqty.of,London.were at the doors of - the House„ ordered them to he admitted. He then Sheriff Waithman, and as . led hiin "iirlihkhe had . got there ?" • ;Air. Sheriff WATTIIMANr.ptied, " A Petition. fora the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons Of.the City of London, in Common Council as, sel'nblod, which we are ordered to present to this llononrahle House." M. SevAttt Yon. may withdraw." The Petition- was then. brought up and read. It prayed for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the BlackfriarS Bridge Acts - . COLONIAL TIMBER TRADE. Mr. MARRYAT then rose and said,—" Mr. SPEAKER, I bekl in my hand a Petition from the Merchants, Ship-Owners, coal Magistrates of illiramichi, in the - ProVince of .New Bruns wick, setting forth the vital importance of the Timber Trade to the-Inhabitants of the British Provinces in North America, and. praying that this Hon:se will not'sufferit to be placed on a foating less favourable to them than it is -at present. It may • be proper teenrentiare, that such is the importance of Miramichi, that-Of 1520 Bait' Vessels employed in the Timber Trade ith our North American Coloniesnatheyear 18111,no less than .297 loaded in that port alone.—Statements from the Inhabit , „atm of the 'Colonies themselves, haw far their prosperity is like - ly to be affected by any Legislative measures of the Mother edoontry, bearing upon their productions and commerce, • are • bight , important, as they serve - to correct misapprehensions-and errors, into.which at-this distance, we ate apt to fall, foriwant of authentic information respecting interests so remote. The teeth of this remark war never more strongly exemplified than the present instance, for never was there a greater discord- Race than between the facts stated in this Petition, and.the Re ec rt of a Coinmittee 'of the Rouse - of Lords made in the last . Sesgioo of Parliament. • The variance between them is so great, that justice to these Petition-rs, and to the other Inhabitants . of the British Provinces in North. America, calls _upon me to point out, as I go along, the noisstotements with which that ii.eport abounds: and this I ion at full liberty to do, it having been communicated to us by message from the Lords, and re printed ly order of this House. The Petitioners state, that the Timber Trade gives the greatestpessible encouragement to' the • 4gricadture of the-British Colonies in North America. The • _Report on the contrary, States, that it. cannot be considered as directly affecting the interests of the Canadian Landholder,. as the value of the Timber sold at Quebec does not exceed, 'by much, the expel - le and labour of procuring it for ship . remit, and the' Landholder 'himself gets little or nothing for the Timber.' This . passage is net consistent with the evi dence given before the Committee, by Mr. -1-lenry Usborne, Mr. John Hamilton, or Mr.-John Bainbridge, all of whom state, that though the Timber is of little value as it stands in . the Forest, it becomes valuable from the' laboor beStowed on it; and both the latter add, that persons connected with agriculture employ,thernselves in cutting Timber,. and getting it down to the shipping-places, during the winter, when all 'operations in agriculture, from the nature of the climaten'are sosoended.,— : The evidence of Mr. H. Usborne, and Mr. John A llamilten • applies particularly to Canada, that of Mr. John Bainbridge to Nova-Scotia and New Brunswick. The Petitioners not only - • confirm their testimony, from which it results that the Farmer - has the benefit Of preparing, the Timber, and removing it to the shipping place, as.well as its value while standing, which is al . together kept cut of sight in the Report, but assert, in farther proof of the encouragement given to agriculture by the Tim hie Tr; le That Farmers, who a few years ago, raised only enough from their lands far the support of themselves • ern their &trines, and had no incitement to raise more, Cbotieusie there were then no purchasers for what they could sure,) have -shire the commencement of the Timber .Trade, entirely on account of the brisk del - hand' for all sons - Of farm leg produce required for the use of the timber,eutters,- and d ethers connected: with the trade, and many. industrious and deserving c-migrants have been enabled to settle in the wile Rerness lands of this country, solely by means of the mer 'chants advancing to their the supplies necessary for_ their sup - poet,. uetil their lands were brougnt to 'a state of cultivation to d yield them a subsistence. The su - pplies so advanced were t 4 payable in timber, - which is generally prepared for marke . hdrring our long winters, when n e ither farnaingelor fishing can carried on.'—Jill these statements are in direct contradie tinn to the assertion in the Report of the Lord's Committee, diet the Timber Trade carnot be considered as directly fecting the interest of theCanalian latid'iolder.!—The truth is, that all the landholders in the British Provinces in North Arne , rice, with - very fon exceptions, instead of living on their rents, ea-in this country, Live by their personal labour employed on theidowo lends, and exchange that-part of the produce of their_ lands which they do not require for their own consumption, for article's of Briti-b growth or manufactuoe,- and the extent of ibis exchange is fixed by the-amount .of their exportations Iluelandholder in these Provinces has a direct interest in every stick of timber, barred of ashes, bushel of grain, or piece of paltry 'shipped to Great- Britain or her denendencies. Either - the article is his own, on its way. to a marleet, cr he has raised • the food, or furnished some portion of his labour, for the wood . totter, the liuntr, the raftsman, the merchant, end the whole' class of persons who are employed in conveying the produce of . the Colony to.tilfre shipping-place, and bringing back or distrh. buting the returns.. Al'_ these persons are the home consumers of the Colonial Landholder ; and the value of his land, the value of the- labour ofhis forefathers, and of his own labour, de pends report the number Of these Consumers, without whom all ' the. ,nroduce of his land _which hecould not himself consume, would. be of no value. —The Petitioners further state, that large sitms have been expended in forming Establishments for carry ing or the -Timber Trade, though the Report of the Lords ('orninittee is silent as to any such Establishments having been - fume:tin any of the British Provinces, excepting Canada. They observeshat individuals have so investel their capital rettu ' rally conceiving that the interests of the British Colonies would mien. he sacrificed to advance those of fonigo nations : •' that in the event of such a stop-to the trade as the i nposition - of the proposed duty would oc easion,. those costly Establish ' meets must go to decay, anti all importation of lliitish goods 4 must cease, for the Merchant here depends e -elusively upon 'tae exportation-of Timber to Great britain to make his re-. centances."—They add, that White or Yell6w Pine, (of 'which description the great bulk of the wood of this country consists,) was shipped, and is now shipping at ids. to 18 per ton ;. which latter is the very lowest rate at which it can be prepared for market. Even at CICH3 low rates, 4 the impottotion into the blether Country this stetson yielded perhaps • in no instance any ptofit, beyond the employment of . ' end in several cases within the knowledge of your '..oetitieners, was attenthhi, with loss to the Importer. It is • c thereferholerlOos, that nit duty, however small, can be borne, • and that the high duty proposed would amount tea complete `prohibition of Colonial Tiinherd—ln the latter part of this stotannent. the Petitioners are borne out by the Lord's Corn, ntittee, who ',hive printed in their Appendix an account which • they say they arc assured may be relied upon, of the prices of Timber from catch port, distinguishing the duty, freight, charges,. nett proceeds, and cost; according to the nett proceeds of a ikid. of Cariatih. Yellow Pine, without any duty, are only as. dela:ea that it is obvious that the smallest duty must absorb this miserable pittance, and consrquently operetta as a total abolition of the trade.—The Petitioners assert, that the • costly establishments for carrying on the Timber Trade were . made, in the persuasion that the interests of the British Colo ; nies would never he sacrificed to advance three of. foreign na ' tinny.' The Report of the Lords' Committee states,' that - - encounagemcnt• to the importation of Wood - from the Britiali Colonies by the imposition of henty deers on Tireb.r from ' Foreign States, is comparatively of recent d.itr, a'd tees rot appear to have formed part of the Commercial nr Celenial policy.of the Country previous to the late ward. It is the bit slam of as Legislative Committee te inquire after truth, and this Cooanaittee; bad they made - diligent. inquiry, would have discovered in various Briteshfitattitha that the uniform policy of . Great Britain in regarstuathe trade of her Colonies has been to retake restriction and protection go hand in hand; and ;hat en. nom-agetnent to this . very trade was given by bounties, more teautaicentury ago. In proof of these assertions, I have only to refer to the acts of the. 3d and 4th of Anne, Chap. lOn and t•e 11th' of Geo. L Chap.)2. The principle laid down in the Pzvannitles of these Arel iS the same as is new acted upolt. The only-theitge is in the. mode of carrying it into effect; and the prelhased objects of the Legi stature is declared in tb to a preernl los to be, the inalting areat Britain hadOpendent of Foreign na- dons Mr her stipply . of Timber. and enabling h^r CClo:tics to cx te nd their importation of 13ritish Manufactures, which could only be accomplished by a system of permanent, not temporary en courement.—The same want, of du.,g investigation appears in the following passage of the RePort : "Ile. demand for 'Wood' from the Countries in th - of "Europe - has beeriprOgre. sively diminishing, so„ as to occasion interruption to the 4 trade of these Countries:particulatly With Norway, whose I habitants,notwthstiritling the pretl Bolton they thave uni . - formly shewn 'v nu onli•leawith ' • out the mear.s of consuming them, but of paying for those which they- have received, and for which nearly half a mil '' lion is stated to be owing.,so-that,the.export-oLmanuflui•treS has boon reduced to an extent which cannot be estimated, • merely by a ref:lance to the direct exports to those Countries, as it appears that a considerable portion of the manufactures . .. • consumed in them are introduced through thee-channel of the 4...Gerniaia. fairs:2 - 'l'lle .App,.eadix, to this Repo - rtemtainsan count of the value of goods , export:d from Great Britain to all the Northern Powers of Yurope fbr the last 20 years. A compari son of the Trade with them for the three firetof these years before the present Thither Trade . to theliritish Colonies had commenced, and the three last years, when it was in the greatest giv'm the following results. Ire the Qfficial Retuins the Exports of Norway are blended with those of Denmark, while it was united- to that Power, so that I have no means of.show itg them separately : . . . 1790, 1800, 1301. 1817, 'lBlO, 1819. d s. tl. '•"525,731 -0 8 Denmark - and Norway 816;791 4 0 132,146 16. 6 Sweden - 30,498 7 It) 1,580,702 4 4 Russia - - 6.1518,72910 1 854,413 .1 . 3 Prussia - . ' 1,512,475 610 A:3,02,996 2 9 I?' 858 - 454 8 9 - SO: Cast instead of the matinterruption to the trade of these Countries, and the reduced export -of our - manufactures to them,' as alledged in the Lords' Rep or t, th e e x 'eo rt of. our thanufctures has been nearly-trebled. Stich -is tile difference Intve s en the Report and the Appendix ; between the statements of the Committee and their OfficiarDocuments !—With respect to British goods finding their way froth Great 'Britain to Nor way, the country more particularly..mentioried in the Report, by way of the German fairs, no such fact is stated in the evi deoce given to the Commitee. That a few articles of g rea t value and little bulk may occasionally be smug fled, itr the man ner dese:riel by Mr. Solly, is . very probable. He says; that goods are carried by way. of Hamburgh to Leipsic Fahewhere they arc purchased by Russian and Polish .I%ler&anta, taken to the confines of Hungary, and . even to the ` Southern -Provinces of Russia ;' •but not a Word about Norway. Mr.. Tooke says, that he should consider a great number of British - Manufactures. Must have been introduced - into Russia indirectly through Germany ; at the same tithe it ' is- possible the tiernians may transport articles • of their own ",Manufacture to Phisaia ' substituting ours for their own pur poses.' ,He produces bills dra\rn upon his house, which ha ve been negociated through Noningsberg, Berlin, and Leipsie - , mul were ultimately remitted to -British Manufacturers; hut thi4 only proves that the inhabitants of these. lapes have cons- • mercial transactions with each oth er , l eav i ng the particular na tUre.of them open to conjecture; The:idea that any consider able portion of the British Manufactures consumed ii the Nor thern countries of - Europe; is introduhed through the chssinel of the German Fairs, is extravagant in the highest degree. It might as reasonably be imagined, that a: honaiderable part of the productions of those countries- find their way here in the same circuitous mode. A. Merchant who should set Out from London to purchase Russian 'sheeting o r li n e n a t Leip s ic or Frankfort Fair, might expect to.have a t statute of lunacy taken out against him, eabeing incapable of managing his Own affairs ; and tins part of the Report betrays so much want of commercial knowledge, that it reminds me of an observatio n ma d e u p on ano ther-set of Lords (the Lords of Trade), in a former reign,' that they were Lords among - Merchants,- and - Merchants. among Lords.' The increase of the Exports to our own Provinces in North .America is not less gratifying than the proof that our et ports to the Northern Powers of Eumpe have b e'en angmented in stead of diminishing. In the years I7:1d,1800, and 11101, the ex port of British Manufactures to these Colonies was 3,017,5721. Gs. 2d. In the years. 1817,1818, and - 1819, it till 5,10.7,9061. Be. 10d: If we extend the view farther, and include onr -export of fo reign and coloni a l merc h an di se , th e =hunt in the three form ; r years -was - 3,614,4411. 2s. lod. iii the. three latter years 6,391,6951. ss. Bd. m:eking an - int:ease in our annual "exports to the British Colonies in North America of. more than 900.0001. Another very important fact stated in this PetitiOn is, that ' the ruin of those immediately- connected - with the Timber Trade would not be the only evil effect of the proposed alte '-ration in the Timber Duties ; but that the Fisheries -of the British Provinces would be _materially injured e _for the salt used it these-Fisheries is; almost without a single "exceptioin b-ought out in vessels -chartered to carry timber home ; and this return, freight enables them to bring the salt out at a rate ' which Our Petitioners think Would be trebled, at least, in the event of the cessation of this trade.' This is a: most serious consideration. The British Fisheries already. find it difficult to nthiyzWcatrigehitilias aitbd - Inetterethiftlsktfelairdi men, whose interests, it appears, are materially involved in the maintenance of the Colonial Timber . Trade ; .and who, if that trade be injuclieiously.sacrificed, math-together with other classes of the poptilatin ofthe British Provinces;as the Petitioners state, be obliged to emigrate to that country; whose ambitious designs all the energies of- those Provih ces may onhdayagaln b required . to counteract.'—Let us now consider how our manufacturing - interests would be affected - by the transfer of theaTinther; Trade from the British Provinces to the Northern Powers of Europe. The Petitioners state, that all importations of - British goods must cease; for the Merchant here depends exclusively upon the exportation of Timber to Great Britain to make his re ' m'ttances2—This is the case in New Brupswick, and in Ca nada the Timber is estimated at half the exports of the Pro-. vince. Foreign countries have resources which our Colonies have not. • They can trade with all the World ; but Our Colonies can trade with the Mather Country alone. If, therefore, we discourage any branch of trade with Foreiga Countries, they cam direct it into other channelS ; but if we put an end to a trade with our Colonies, it is lost to them altogether, and this accounts for our dimini s h e d import of Thnber • from the Northern Po wers no t h av i ng occasioned any diminu tion in their imports of British Manufactures, while such di rnioution must be the inevitable effect of our discontinuing to import Timber from our Colonies. The Report - et the Lords' Committee states, " That any material diminution of-the duty on Foreign -Timber, would almost 'immediately lead to' ' - an increaseddernand of that article for mostapurnoses of building, and enable the countries which produce it, but mor e especially Sweden and Norway, very greatly to increase their consumption of British produce." But would the-will follow the ability ; or would not the Bills drawn for these additional cargoes, be nee;ociated as usual, at Koninsberg, Berlin, Lein sic, and other places, to pay for forei g n manufactures ? At least the dispos a l o f them- would • be optional ; but the British Colonist has no alternative ; he must draw all his supplies from Great Britain only. Every thing about him and belonging =o him, is British ; lie is clad in. British Woollens, Linens, and Leather ; the axe with which he fells his timber is British.— He roasts his meat at a British grate, on a British spit, or boils it in a British pot, eats it off British plates and dishes, with British keives and forks; drinks out of British mugs or glasses, and spreads hhi meal upon a British table-cloth. All his surplus Means are spent in British manufactures and pro duce ; and this expenditure gives life and animation to British indastry. The British Manufacturers employed to supply his wants, arc consumers to the British Landholder, and give him the same encouragement as the consumers employed' in the Timber Trade give the Colonial Landholder. Thus the Mother Country and the Colonies reciprocally -benefit each other ; and the question is, whether we shall gives up our Colo- Wats, who must dearwithos e forForeigners who may : in shwa, whether we shall sacrifice a certainty for an uncertainty.-- The Petitioners enumerate the Ship Owners among the parties benefited by the Timber Trade with the colo n i es : The Re port of the Lords' Committee vary coolly states,- tnat by the proposed alteration of the Duties, which would . transfer it to the Northern Powers of Europe, some portion of the Ship ' ping now employed in transporting the Canadian Timber to this Country, might probably be compelled to seek for other employment ; and although there is • every reason to expect . that the increased supply from the North of Europe would be chi e fly- i m p or ted in British vessel:4, the average difference in the—length of the voyage might C render a smeller amount ofshipping necessary to carry on this partieular trade.' The extension of the Timber Trade with the Northern Powers, contemplated by the Lords' Committee, is principally with Nor Way and Sweden ; and the assumption that this would be chiefly carried on in British ships, is con trary both to the evidence and to the official documents printed in their Report, Mr. Cewie being asked, ' has •the Timber, since you have been conversant with the trade, been principally imported in vessels of British or Swedish built ? answers, principally in vessels of Swedish built.'—Mr. Peily, in answer to the same !question as to Norway, answers, ' gene rally spealeiag, in Norwegian • ships.' And, by the Official Domini:l:th printed in their Appendix,- it appears that in the yCak 1819, the Norwegian tonnage in this trade that cleared from • Great Britain was 66,054 tons, and the British tonnage only 11160 tons. If then the true rule of judging of the future is by the past, about 6-6ths of the-tonnage-employed in the additional •tr tele with Norway would be foreign, and only 1-Bth British, instead of " the -increased- - supply being chiefly imported:in British vessels," •as stated in• the -Re port of the Lords e Committee. The next assertion in that Report "that tilt: .rate of freight - and other eircunr stances aft -ndant.on British ship...nog, enabled it to enter into socceseui. competition, with that of - every other comitry on is, unfOrtunately, refuted by the unclealiable facts that the value of British shipping: is (ler-6 - dated in a greater degreethan that of any other des - clip:Pon of property that can be named. The . Lords' ..Couniiittee,:;h:Owever, indulge a confident hope that the: - sta-te'2of„ seine other branches of 6 -trade, in which they are : . about to'engage, will suggest the means of giving additiOrnil eneourageMent to the shipping of ." this country.'—The Rollin praverb says,- ` that they who-live Upon hope may the of hunger ;' and 'it the Lords' Committee continue their labours in the aiiine- allitit as they have lie Fun them, the British shipowners have -infinitely moreto fearAnan to hope from their exertions. I .shall now shcw the imporiamie of this, question to the British Landholder. Let it be recollected .-thattlie_Committeeun avhoszliepcct Lhave animadverted, was appointed in consequence of a Petition from certain Merchants .of the City of London, against every restrictive regu . lation. of trade, not essential to the Revenue ; against all, dutiei merely protective . from foreign - competition ; and against the excess. 9f. such duties as arepartly for the prir, ' pose of - revenue, and partly fir that of . protecticth. • The Peri tioners'urge the adoption of this new system, on the ground of buying every thing where- it can be bought cheapest ; and tell us that on every occasion of such ,cnncession •or relaxation, as 'they recommend,. a great incidental obj ec t W o uld b e ga i ne d by the recognition of a sound principle, or standard, jo which all subsequent arrangements might be referred ; and by the salutary influence which a • promulgation of such just views by the Legislature, and by the Nation . at large, enidd not -fail to have on the policy of other States.— The first recognition of this sound principle which we are called upon to make, is in taking off the present restrictive duties ou Timber, and transferring that Trade from our own Co lonies to Foreign -Myers: But can we stop here ? Principles are immutable an their nature, and cannot be-taken up and laid down at pleasure ' adopted in one instance , and abandoned in 'another. If we abolish all restrictions' On the importation of Foreip Timber, how can'we refuse toabolish- those on the-im portation .of Foreign Corn ? The Gentlemen who have sup ported this Petition, declare that they have no intention aim terfering with the Corn Laws of present ; but have not' Fo reigners this intention ? Was not a threat held out at the late Polish Diet, to prohibit the importation of all British Manu factures till we admitted the importation of Polish Corn; and. if we admit the • principle of abolishing all restrictions upon 1 -Foreign competition, as a standard to . which all subsequent ranganents are to be referred, we must act upon it in all cases, and without . any exception, or we shall subject our selves to the charge of duplicity and injustice,, and eXcite the animosity and perhaps the hostility.of Foreign Powcrs.—ln this contest the British Landholder would also Have to Contend against a great proportion - •of his fellow-subjects The _con sumers of the produce of the land ~tirould save between twenty and thirty millions per annum, by importing it froth 'foreign growers. Prices of all cornmoditie's,• which depend . upon the price of food, would be reduced in proportion ; the labourer would be better fed and better clothed for less money ; the manufacturer *mild be enabled to•underSell - the Foreign Manufacturer ; the Ship Owner - would have as good a chance of bringing home Foreign Comas Foreign Timber ; and in the language of the - Report of the Lords' Committee,there can b little doubt bat that such a measure would enable other Ciountlies_ greatly to increase their consumptiOn of British produce.' ' But what would be the situation of the Landholder ? Wheat could not be worth" more than 40s. per quarter; his land , Would not pay the expence of cultivation, and theicfore would become of as little value as land in the wilds of North America. Instead. of living - upon his rent in ease and comfort, he would be .reduced to the state of the Canadian Landholder, and must • work as a labourer upon his own estate for the means .ofinbsisteme. Stich is the condition to which these new Poli tical Economists would reduce the British Landolder. Let him then adliere to, that system to which he owes his present opu lence,'lence, and .finder Which he enjoys protection.from•foreign com- I petition ;• a jrotectioii as neccssary to him, as to his fellow subiects in North America, and let him.beware of_ encourag ing those plausible but delusive theories, which would inVolve. as well as the *her classes'of .the Community, in - one common Tuin ' only leaving him the cousolution of being the last devoured,---I shall now move that this Petition be brought up.'"' The Petition was then brought up, and ordered to he on the table, and be printed. Sir ISAAC COFFIN made a few obServations on the asser tion of. the Petitioners, that 'all the Timber . brought to this :country in British ships, from America, was brought from the JAritSsii Colonies. He would'pledge himself to spew that not.a stick of this Timber was cut in the Colonies, but that all was brought from the. United States. Mr. J. GRANT vindicated Cue . report 'of the Lords' COmMittee - alluded to in the Petition. it was one of the most useful Reports that had been made for some time, .and when that branch of the subject came to be investigated by the Corn mittee:then sitting on the subject of Isoreign Trade; he-would endeavour to she:,- the truth of the assertion. _ _ Mr. T. WILSON presented similar Petition from Mon treal. The Honourable ',Wernher made sonic observations in Support of the Petition, which could not be distinctly heard in th.J Vrall3ry.. Mr. ItIrXRDO bad heardmuch surprise the prat- . 'with iflZniihig'4lt;;V: i!fnciTtgi n l i ?f, r , certainly were directly the reverse of the principles laid down in . the Report of the Couunittee of the House of Lords on the icet, which was acknoivhslged to be a most comprehensive and correct view of the Matter. He should reserve himself for a fuller exposition of his opinions' till the sultect came more fully before the House. Mr. MA pRYAT slid that lie had only contended that ete petitioners ought to he allowed to remain in the same state - that they ware in at present. If the 'rates were at all lowered, the petitioners must inevitably be ruined. The petition was then brought ttp, read, - and ordered to be printed. . EAST 1-N.DIEs Mr. L - Amn-roN, seeing the Right Honourable . the "President of the Board of - Controul in his plate, begged to ask him a question relative to a report which he understood was very prevalent in India, namely, that. it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to put in felt force the CenSorship of the Press, which had been removed by the Aiarquess of , -Hastings. He wished to know from the Right Honourable Gentleman, whether such was the intention of his Majesty's Government ?- Mr. BATHURST said, his . attention had been drawn to..this. subject, and he could assure the Honourable Member that there existed no such intention on the part of Government—(Bear !) The regulations made by the Marquess of ilast ings were in full force, and it was the intention of Government that they should remain so. Mr. LAlvinTo'N expressed himself perfectly satisfied with the answer of the Right Honoura ble Gentleman. AGRICULTURAL - DISTR ESSES, • Lord GEORGI; CAVENDISH presented a Peti tion, signed by 500 Owners and Occupiers of Land, in the parish! of Scaresdale (Derbyshire), complaining of the distresses under which they laboured. The Petitioners occupied between them 470,000 ,acres of land ; they *prayed for such relief .as -Parlia4uei . it, in its wisdom, should think meet.—Ordered to be printed. THE QUEEN Sir R. WILSON presented a Petition from the operative Brass 'Founders and Brass kVorkers of the Metropolis ; before he stated the prayer of the Petition, he must advert to some gross calum, nies which had been circulated against her Ma, jesty, and the present Petitioners amongst others. It had. been said, that much of the money granted to the Queen, had• been employed by her in get ting up the pro Cessions which had been-seen taking up Addresses daily to the royal residence. Now, on the part of the Petitioners, . he had to state, that the several processions of the . Brass Wor kers had cost no lesS -a sum than 70001., which had been subscribed by the workmen themselves of their - own accord. The Petition prayed the restoration of the Queen's name to the Liturgy, as the or ly step for saving the country ; and pray ing that the persons who had' proposed and per severed in the persecutions against her Majesty, should be made to pay the expences out of the produce. of their salaries and their sinecures ; mad that no - money should he g,ra•nted for the public services, till- these objects were. obtained. ---Ife should cent:43ly support this part of the. prayer of the Petition ; for a reason "which he would state, namely, the connection them ap peared to be between the Milan and Hanoverian Commission, and the circumstance of one of the principal 'Agents of the Hanoverian Commission, after hai - ing been convicted Of picking locks, being appointed .to a 'place of groat trust, at the Court of Rome and because he understood a bkbe of 10001. had been offered to aNunic►pal clffiter4S some, rank, H a ke could introduce Wm svlf intaer RoyalltigMess's family, and to her servants, for certain purposes.,--The Petition was received. CONDUCT OF SHERIFFS. Lord ,BELORAVE then presented a similar Pe tition from certain Freeholders of the Connty of Chester.—The Noble Lord adverted to the con.; duct-of, the Sheriff of Chester, who, he said, had called a publid Meeting of the Freeholders of ;the county, for the purpose of agreeing to what was called a loyal Address. At this Meeting a noble and near relation of his - attended, and did consider it as his duty to propose an amendment ; the doing so, however, was the signal for the corn.: mencement of such a scene of confusion as no tongue could describe ; and this cenfitsion origi nated with individuals from whose rank and situation better conduct might have been ex pected ; and what could have been the grotinds for such violent opp6sition he was at a loss to know, since the amendment only Oroposed what every loyal subject must wish, namely, th a t hi s Majesty should b e adviSed to comply w i t h t l w wishes of the great majority of the people,. an d restore her Majesty to her rights. He would ask was ,not this loyal ? yet, loyal as it was, the High Sheriff refused, when applied to on his own re:. sponsibility, to put the, amendment. The Noble - Lord then proceeded to express his doubts of the Sheriff possessing any power, in right of his of.; fice, to refuse to put any amendment. Ile even doubted the right of the Sheriff to insist on pre' 7 siding at a Meeting which he himself ,called, nt6 , more than' any other individual who was present —lie was only a Ministerial Officer when in that situation. He knew it might be urged that a Sher:if had a discretionary power, but he denied it ; he must act according to law, and wheiever discretionary power commenced law ended. The Noble Lord proceeded to comment further on the conduct and power of the Sheriff, and concluded by moving that the Petition should be brought up. Mr. EGERTON defended the Sheriff from the imputation of party motives. He was a Gentle man of independent feelings, and was not likely to lend himself to any party. If the Sheriff had acted wrong, he might be punished but this was not the place in which he-cOuld be called on to answer for his conduct. Mr. BRIGHT thought the HOuse was the plaCe where the Sheriff COuld be called to answer for any attempt to, depri-,e the people of their right Of petitioning. He would ask the Hon..c:entle 'man, if such was not the case, where was the Sheriff to he called on to answer? Were they, he would asit', to wait till the Judges went • the Cithiit; and the People's right of - petitioning be in the mean time held in abeyance. Mr. B.lVlt.nuAnArrt denied the doctrine of. the NOble Lord, that the Sheriff was not *by law the presiding Officer at County Meeting-3. w ;ri b cn tier:laza 1.1 , hir. 7 Epoic4l last. that if a Sheriff interfered to prevent a Petition to tire" Ifertnr - of Commons on any subject ton netted with the People, he would be' arrienable to the power of the House ; but in this case the House could have no right to interfere, since it . :lid 'not. at di relate to the privileges of the House. As to the conduct of ,the Sheriff at the Meeting in question, he had made every inquiry in his power, and understood that the conduct of. the Sheriff had been most impartial. The Hon.Merri ber then adverted towhat had passed at the,Meet ing for the County of Kent, and the treatment which an individual had received at the Kent Meet ing,As alluded to in a late discussion, only as he un derstood, because he presumed to dissent from the opinion of the majority of the Meeting, and be cause, on inquiry, he turned out to be a half-pay Officer.—The Bon. .Member also adverted to violence of conduct in other places, as well as at County Meetings. He was ready 'to allow that, in .the lbarinth of the moment, Gentlemen might utter expressions, of which, at other times, they Would be aSharned. Tie cOuld'only so consider the conduct and expressions of some tiononrable Members of the House on the day of the last pro rogation of Pa r li a M en t. Mr. Hols - E - ywoon defended the Kent Meet ings and denied that the individual alluded to had been in any manner ill-treated. CREEVEY said, as the Hon. Gentleman had adverted to what passed at the late prorogation, - he would pursue what the Hon. Gentleman had commenced; an 4 say that he was one of those who cried shame on that occasion ; and he did so because he felt the conduct of certain individuals called for such an exp re ssion. He .strongly .con denmed the conduct of the Sheriff, and said, if no other person did, he would hereafter move that the Sheriff of Chester be called to the bar. - s4r J. N EWPOILT applauded the tontintt of-tlte. Noble Lord who brought forward the motion. If such conductas that of the Sheriff was legal, and justifiable, the. right of petition was nothing but a mockery. Mr. B. WILBRAHAM explained. Mr. S. ll'oftTr. , .y was decidedly of opinion the duty of the Sheriff was to afford the People every opportunity of petitioning ; but he understood the Meeting at Chester was for the pu r p ose o f addressing:the Throne, and, therefore, the privi leges of the House . were not connected with it, and the House could not possibly - interfere. Lord BELGRAvE explained.—lle did not mean to impute any improper motives to the Sheriff, he only stated facts. A MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, said, in his opinion; it was the duty of the House to protect the People in their right of petition ing, every branCh of the Legislature; he did not consider, that a Sheriff should be called to the bar without full proof of misconduct. • After a few words in explanation from Lord BELottAvx and Mr. CREEVEY, the Petition was. brought up and read, and ordered to be printed, PETITION FROM GWENT. Mr. DENMAN he held in his hand a Peti ion frord'a person Earned J. M'Dougal 7 corn planting that had been falsely charged with uttering forged drafts on the Bank of Scotland whilst trat ening in the Netherlands, and upon that charge hnprisoned by the authorities at Ghent, and deprived.of every m Ittis of defend ing himself, the name of 'lris accuser being con cealed from him. That he had rpp led to Lord ClAitcarty, the British Ambassador at the Court of Brussels, for prote,ctiikt but . Nvithout success ; lie had tlalte . fore' . felt himself called en to peti tion the House to txtend its protection to him as a British. subject.—The Petition was read, and ordered to lie on the table-and to be_printed. LONDON MUDGE Mr. Alderman Woon gave notice, he would on Monday move for a Select Committee to inquire into the state of London Bridge. - Sir J. Nr,wpoirr moved for an account of all sums of Money iss ue d t o th e Public Offices in Ireland for stationery during the last seven years: —Ordered. SET)IT!ON AND BLAqPIIPAY. ' Mr. BESNEt moved for an Account of the Criminal Informations filed Irom Jllnuary IS2O to January 18'21, for Blasphemy and Sedition and also for the number of convictions.—Ordered. ToE QUEEN'S ANNUITY. The CH tNCELLOR. of tl►e EXCHEQUER MOVeti the second reading of the Queen's Annuity Bill. liis Noble Friend was absent from indisposiiion, but he believed that no objection Was entertained to the principle of the Bill, .and the discussk could take place in the Committee.--=-Tl►e fill Was then committed for'Monday, and ordered to be printed. NAPLES. • . . Mr - . DENISON wished to put a questioil to the Right Hon. Gentleman .ouposite. Ife wishki to know if any orders had been Sept out to our cruisers in Mediteranean, to stop.,Vesso,3 carrying arms And vaval story sto Yiples. One cf his constituents had fitted out -a ship for ti;e purpose of taking out gunpowder to that country ; but he'had received a letter from Naples, stating that fir G. Moore had Ordered 01 ships carrying naval st-ores, to be intercepted, as having oa board contra! and goods. The CHANC}.:LLOR of the E,:efivin ER bad heard of no sack order, and was not aware under whlt arith,)rity it collA h i 4e been issued. ed the 'information of the lion. Gentleman to b.: unfourlded. NEW-POST OFFICE. The Order o: the Day being moved, for the 'Committee of Supply, Mr. It. GORDON adverted to the expense that had been incurred on account of the New Post office ; 60,0001. had already been expended for the scite of the building; and a much more cm:- siderable sum would be wanted. Scarcely any progress had yet been made in the building, and many individuals had suffered severely. The powers given by the Abt of Parliament, had also been greatly ex - ceeded. He theli adverted to the expense incurred, on account of the Forts on the coast of A frica, on Which, the sum 0f.25,000 /. had been expended in the course of the lit year, and was desirous of some infounation on that subject, as well as relative to the Post-office. Mr. LUSTIINGTON 'said; that the expence of the Post-odice hell beet - t - etitiltd , at "280,000/. 'l'l City had been improved in - consequenc e or what had - bee. do; c; though the expence hail turned out muchmore than had, been anticipated- In the course of the next week he should ' crive notice of two of the Rills that were int en ded ta be brouAt forward in . the course of the Sesiiott- Col. DAvrEs was of opinion thatlittle had lieo done for the money. Mr. GaULBURN stated, that a final arrange' merit was in contemplation, oa the subject of the African Forts. Mr. WILLIAMS said, that no improvement hal taken place in the City of London from what had been done respecting the Post O thce. Mr. LUSIIINGTON said, that a great nuisance had been removed. After some farther observation? from Mr. Wil liams and Mr. Calcraft, the Committee was vost polled to Monday. WAYS 2-IND 11EANS. • On the motion o f the UHANCELLOR of .the -r - • CHEQUER the House resolved .itself into Co "- mittee of Ways and Means. The Right 1-L-'," nourable G( , nticman stated, that in the year 18 . 1" several duties had been laid on Foreign Spirit s ,l and which duti es w e r e t o cont i nue f or a spa ce 0 ` five years ; that period would expire on ,the `ti l of July next. His object Was to renew thos e duties for the space of one year. His object in pro y -posing the annual emitinnation of those deitie s was to keep - them as ft were constantly under th e view of Parliament, b:-cause by that means Fly liament would be eilabled to see wJwther Sfri". l: gling was check e d i n it s progress or increfi sc ., - 0 ,, It appeared that the actu a l con S um pti en of i t reign Spirits had 'been on the increase for the 1 05 ., two years, by w hi c h it a pp ear ed that stouggl i `: o. ..,. had not increased, but had been checked wi t ` l in that period. .was 'sure . that the 11 ° 5e - would agri , c - with hiM, that the re wa s 10° . proper object of t axa ti on t h an - t h at o f 1: :, Spirits, whether with a view tiy ;the enox".g i „ 9c inept of our Ag r ic u lt ure, or W i th a Vice.ir, tO heelth and morals' of the people. TheiWc't ob ject he had, wasone more of foe than substance it was, that the vo t e of five millions on the Aid g of 18'20 should be applied lewards the SuPPI) of 181 ; this would ena bl e t h e Treasury to aP" ply that sum in the most:convenient manntr. T he , Right Ticnour a bi e G ent l emen concluded br moving a Resolution th a t th e . duty of one 'shilli n g per bushel on Malt made in Great Britain, grant" ed Act or, the last Session, to expire- 4 99 the sth of July, 18'21, should be further cola" , nned. On the Resolution being put, • Mr, CnEr:vcy had intended to opPo e the Speaker's leaving the Chair for the House, to go - into a Committee of Supply, while thoestimatc. , were not before them. Ile had not op p o sed 111 1 4 leaving it to go into a Committee of Ways an' Means, not expecting that any grant of the Pub lic money was there to be proposed.. Perceivlq that in this he had deceived himself, he should Itow move as an Amendm e nt, that the Chairma n ` progress. The house ought not •1 forget the complaints of ail-kinds which they h ad heard in tho c ourse o f . their proceedings oa the