The Sun. — London, England, 1839-07-27 00:00:00

EVENING EDITION. The House then resumed, and Mr Robt. Stewart and ethe train the Commons brought up the Slave Trade (Portugal) Bal.— ( (Hear, hear.) Their Lordships again went into Committee. The tat clause was agreed to, and on the 2d clause being pro : Posed, Lord BROUGHAM said this clause proposed to give a power of new taxation which had never been agreed to by any representa tives of the people. He thought the better way would be to post pone the second clause till the third was disposed of. Agreed to. Lord BROUGHAM then moved the rejection of the third clause, which he thought gave most unconstitutional power. The Earl of WICKLOW supported the motion. After a few words from Lord ELLENBOROUGH and the Marquis of NORMANBY, Earl FITZWILLIAM said it would be necessary to put in words to show by whom the taxes were to be levied and by whom they were to be made payable. After a few words from the Earl of RIPON end the Loan CHAN eII,II.IIIR, • Lord BROUGHAM said that nothing that had been said made this clause more comprehensible than it was before. Wh it sort of Person that could be who was tot eceive the tax thus imposes!, and Yet who was not a public officer of the revenue of the province, he could not by any possibility devise. Every one employed in collect ing a tax or a duty was a revenue officer; a landing waiter at Sheer ness was as much an officer of revenue as the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the principal tax.gatherer himself. He believed that those who bad framed the Bill before they set to work with their hands had never worked at all with their heads on the subject, anti therefore it was impossible that any person could discover what t hey Wanted, because they did not know it themselves. Their Lordships aught not to pass nonsense, even although urged to do so by the Government. It would be disrespectful to the Crown to ask its assent to nonsense. He objected to it altogether, for if it meant anything it meant to delegate to the Crown, by means of the Go. vernor, the power of taxing Canada, without the check or consent of the Lords or Commons. The Marqui s of NORMANBY sa id th e c l ause was i n t e nded to de The to the Governor and Council the power of levying rates lOC l ocal purposes, such as for the support of the police at Montreal Or at Quebec : he was not learned enough in law to know whether it could, legally speaking, carry out that intention, but that was its Object. Lord ELLENBOROUH would suggest to the Noble Marquis that he should consent to the clause being struck out now, and pre pare a clause to effect his object, which could be introduced in bring ing 'JP the Report. , s . u Via count MELBOURNE thought if the House approved of the ✓ nciple it would be better to pass the clause, which could be amended in bringing up the Report. Lord BROUGHAM said his Noble Friend was asking their Lordships to pass nonsense now, which he would make into sense if he could on the bringing up of the Report. Suppose a tax imposed under this clause, and one of the inhabitantscalled on to pay it, he would not be disposed t o do so, and he would say to the person de tflancling it, you are a revenue officer. Persons were always astute en ough in finding excuses to avoid paying taxes. It would be use 'eall for the collector to say he was merely a local collector collecting local tax. The very fact of his being appointed to collect under the o rdinance would make him, pro /sac vice, a public revenue officer. Viscount MELBOURNE—The clause was intended to apply to i.evenueofficers already acting as snch, and not to those called into ex. isteL ice by virtue of this Act. Lor d ELLENBOROUGH was not disposed to refuse the Gover. her and Council power to raise local taxes for local purposes, but thought thi s went f urt h er, and wou l d lead to j o bbi ng b y pu bli c Co n aPaniec The Earl of DURHAM sa id t h e o bj ect was t o p reve nt local d u es . being co ll ected by revenue officers, and there was a ma e.mnery for ca rry i ng t hi s c l ause i nto e ff ec t exis ti ng in most towns. 'lt the town of Montreal there was a corporation, the officers or Which collected local dues. This was not the case in Quebec. ,B°ine of the co m pl a i n t s ma d e t o him was of the non-existence of a `4l-Poration. In certain parishes there was an officer called a eager, Whose duty it was to collect these dues ; so that a machine already existed for carrying it into effect. fo rd BROUGHAM said his Noble Friend had stated the existence of local officers who could carry this claim into effect; but still that would not get rid of the difficulty except in the case W hen a public work was confined to one parish, as, if a road were "ntinued throngh various parishes, the rates must eventually be Paid into the hands of some one person, and the persons collecting them would still be publie revenue officers. The Duke of WELLINGTON understood the intention of the clause was to give the Governor in Council a power similar to that exercised by Parliament in the passing of private Bills. The LORD CHANCELLOR stated that was exactly the inten tion of the clause, and that public officers engaged in the collection of the revenue of the state should not be employed to collect these rates. Earl FITZWILLIAM suggested that the difficulty would be met by introducing words, enacting that the officers to be employed in collecting those rates should be mentioned in the ordinance im. Posing th em. The Earl of RIPON objected to giving Companies the power of ta xing persons to carry ou public works, the profit of which went into their own pockets. Lord LYNDHURST said the clause was wholly useless—they roust legislate upon the subject next Session, for the law under which Canada was governed expired next November, and no law or ordinance was to be of effect until it had been on the table of the House for thirty days. They did not meet till February ; that brought it to March,and seven or eight weeks must elapse before it got out to Canada. Lord BROUGHAM moved that the House be resumed in order that the Government might have time to make themselves ac quainted with the contents of their own Bill. The Duke of WELLINGTON said that some such clause was necessary, though is there was any doubt as to its wording, it had better be postponed, and made clear. Lord BROUGHAM withdrew his former amendment, and moved that the clause be postponed. The Honse then divided— . For the Clause 56 Against it Majority.— 7 On the next Clause, giving the Governor power to alter the land tenure, Lord Brougham, Earl Fitzwilliam, Lord Lyndhurst, and Lord Ellenborougl objected to vesting so important a pawer in a tem porary authority, and an amendment proposed by Lord Ellenbo.. rough, negativing it, was agreed to. The remaining clauses were agreed to, and the report was ordered to be. brought up on Monday. Their Lordships adjourned at Half:past Twelve o'Clock. HO USE OF COMMONS, Juir 26. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. On the motion of Mr. WALKER the Bury Small Debts Bill was read a third time and passed. BELFAST WATERWORKS BILL. Mr. G. W. WOOD brought up the Report of the Committee on this Bill. Mr. O'CONNELL moved that the Bill be recom mitted. The proceedings of the Committee had been quite anomalous, for they had decided that the preamble was proved, and bad rejected the first clause of the Bill. . . Mr. T. DUNCOMi3E seconded the motion. Mr. G. W. WOOD said he would state to the House the proceedings which had taken place before the Com mittee, and if the House thought it necessary, be would then give his reasons for the course he had taken. The Committee consisted of 14 members, and had been sitting for nine days. During that time it had examined 11 wit nesses in favour of the Bill, and 4 against it. Of the 14 Members, there were two who did not attend any pro ceeding subsequent to the choice of chairman. Three others did attend until private business required them to leave town. The remaining nine attended the whole of the proceedings, and the decisions had been quite unanimous: Mr. E.TENNENT said the Bill had been fairly and fully examined before the Committee, and the weight of evidence proved this to be a contest between a few specu lators and 65,000 of the inhabitants of Belfast.—(Hear.) The preamble was but a collection of truisims, so that the Committee could not possibly reject it ; but on the first clause the question naturally occurred as to the means by which the project of the Bill was to be carried into exe cution ; and it turned out to be a disgraceful bubble, and the Committee had considered that the parties promoting it should not be trusted for an hour, therefore the incor poration scheme was rejected. The parties had inflicted the most harrassing proceedings or the town of Belfast, avowedly to extort money. Every year there was sonic fresh scheme for interfering with the institutions of the town —the projectors having to be bought off. Twenty eight meetings had been held in the town against the Present scheme, and a c h ar i ta bl e soc i et y connec t e d with the waterworks had lost 5,0001. Eventually the projectors bad been offered, to induce them to abandon the scheme, and let the town alone, 1,5001. ; besides 2001. a year annuity. He trusted that the House would now put an end to these proceedings, so loathsome and disgust ing as they were. Mr. O'CONNELL said the Hon. Member for Belfast was on the Committee ; and the tone he had on the pre sent occasion adopted sufficiently manifested that the Hon. Member had not been a very impartial judge. There had been nothing in his (Mr. O'Cunnell's) speech to justify the violent language which the Hon. Member had em ployed. Sir. E. TENNENT said he bad not referred to the Hon Member ; he bad spoken of the scheme and its projectors. - Mr. O'CONNELL perfectly understood the Hon. Member. He wished to bring before the House the preamble which the parties had been prepared to prove :—" That Belfast, of late years, had greatly increased in population—that the town was not at present sufficiently supplied with water—and that it was expedient that an additional supply should be se cured." Was not that a strong case in favour of the Bill? The preamble further stated that the Marquis of Donegal and his son, the Earl of Belfast, had, with other persons, been willing, and applied to be incorporated for the purpose. This was the scheme which the Hon. Member for Belfast termed a " bubble. " Now he (Mr. O'Connell) kneMvvr.oGot.hingwhi_ch less deserved that title. WOOD wished it to be understood that he did not concur in the description which the Hon. Member for Belfast had given of the scheme. Mr. LOCK.H ART said he had attended the Com mittee, and with attention had investigated the subject ; and he could affirm that there wa s not one tittle o f e v id ence to show that the parties applying for the incorporation could supply the water re quired tion list, or that, in short, there weihat he re, in fact, ewasasah any pecuniaryscrip provisions for carrying on the plan. He trust e d t h e H ouse would not recommit the all. Mr. P. THOMSON hoped the House would not con sent to recommit the Bill on such slight grounds.—( Hear, hear.) The House, in his opinion, o ug h t not, except upon the most serious grounds, to send a Bill back to a Committee. In the present case he had heard nothing to show any pro bability that if the Bill were referred back, a different con_ elusion would be arrived at ; and the period of the Session was an additional argument against the proposition. The motion was negatived without a division, and the Report was agreed to. Mr. PRESUME LD brought up the Report on Tem_ plar's Estate Bill, which was read a third time and passed. The Honourable Member also brought up the Reports on Boulton's and Bligh's Estates Bills, which were severally read a third time, and passed. - Mr. LAW presented a petition from Hereford against the Ecclesiastical Duties and Revenues Bill. Mr. DENISON presente d a pet i t i on from Chertsey in favou r of a reduced rate of postage. Mr T D UNCOMBE presented petitions from 900 w ratepayers of t h e M etropolis, from 42 towliships in the est Ridin g o f Unions, Yorkshire, from the Berwick and Carlton s, and from Tadcaster and Desborough, complaining of the operation of the Poor-law Amet - dment Act. N t l a par ri,. of SA NFORD presented p e ti tions f rom different Somers e t aga i nst the Beer Bill. UCATION—CATHOLIC PETITION. LAN-GDA LE said he. had a petition to present GT are ery Considerable importance, and although he was makin g inv thaatnbyy the rule of the Hou se ' he was prevented from comment on petitions, he trusted that he should be allowed to state shortly the facts and circum stances of the petition : the petition came from a large Catholic meeting, and was on the subject of education. The object of that meeting was to give an expression of their opinions in answer to the opinions urged against them. The petition was signed by upwards of 4,000 persons. The petitioners state that they are convinced of the mani fold advantages of a general system of Education, and that they consider that no grant ought to be made out of any fund to which all alike contribute, unless it was in just and equal proportions among all the classes who contribute to that fund—that they also consid er it i m p or t an t that no religious education should be made a part of any general system of education, but that the churches themselves should have the exclusive direction of the religious educa tion of those who were joined with them in religious com munion. They protest against any scheme giving a preference to the Established Church in any way, and against the clergy of that Church being permitted to in terfere in any way with the religious education of Catholics or of Protestant Dissenters, at the same time conceding their full right to the exclusive superintendence of the religious education of the members of their own religious communion. They deeply regret the calumnies which have been urged, in petitions and at public meetings, against the belief which they profess, a belief which has descended from the Apostles to the present time, which had been pro fessed by some of the greatest men this country produced, and by the Saints of the Calendar of the Established Church, as well as by those of their own religion.— (" Order, order.") The SPEAKER apprehended that the Hon. Gentleman was not out of order if he was merely stating the substance of the petition. Mr. LANGDALE said he was only doing so. He would now conclude by stating that the prayer of the petition was that such a system of education should be adopted as would be found in accordance with these principles. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. Viscount C A STLERE AG H said he had a petition to present from Newtownards, in the county of Down, against any further grant to the College at Maynooth ; and he should follow the example of the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, and read the petition.—( Order. ) The SPEAKER said that had the Hon. Gentleman read the petition he should. have felt it his duty to have prevented him, as it was contrary to the rules of the House, but he had merely stated the substance of it, and was strictly in order in so doing. The NOBLE LORD also presented a petition from the Presbyterian Synod of Seceders in the north of Ireland, complaining of the religious grievances of the Presbyterian soldiers. Mr. LANGDALE explained that he had confined himself to stating the substance of the petition which he had presented. Mr. M CAUL AY presented a petition from Edin burgh against running mails on a Sunday. Col. WOOD presented a petition from Chelsea, pray ing that no parish, having a greater population than 25,000, should be joined in union with any other parish, under the provisions of the Poor-Law Act, and also praying the House to adopt measures to prevent persons voting by proxy in parochial affairs ; also a petition from an individual, complaining that he had communicated some valuable information to the Board of Trade respecting refining sugars, for which he had re ceived no compensation. Mr. POULETT THOMSON put it to the Hon. Gentleman, as this was a petition complaining of a public officer, for it was a complaint against him (Mr. P. Thomson), whether the Hon. Member would present it, unless he had perfectly satisfied himself that it contained a matter whereon hereafter he should feel himself bound to bring forward a motion. . . Mi.. M. J. O'CONNELL presented a petition from the grocers of Fermoy against the Spirit Licences' Act. Captain GORDON presented a petition from Aber deen in favour of Church extension in Scotland. Mr. M. PHILLIPS presented a petition from the silk throwaters and manufactures of Manchester, praying to be exempted from the operation of the Factory Bill then before the HouSe. Mr. HINDLE Y presented a petition from a Mechanics' Institution in Yorkshire in favour of a uniform penny postage. Also a petition from the Aborigines Society, complaining of the forcible removal of the Indians from Canada. Mr. BANNERMAN presented a petition from Aber deen in favour of a uniform penny postage. Lord R. GRO SVEN 0 R presented a petition in favour of penny postage, but against the use of stamped envelopes. Sir G. PEEL presented a petition from the stationers of Blackburne to the same effect ; also a petition from Eccles, in Berwickshire in favour of Church extension. Mr. GIBSON GRAIG presented a petition from Ber wickshire, praying for an' alteration of the law of Church patronage in Scotland. Mr. PATTE SON presented a petition from Nor wich in favour of penny postage; and a petition from Congleton relative to the silk trade. M';-. F. MAULE presented a petition from Ayrshire, for an alteration in the law of Church patronage in Scotland. Mr. PAKINGTON gave notice that on Monday next, he should present a petition from several townships of Upper Canada, on the subject of clergy reserves. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE gave notice that on Monday next, he should move for a copy of all orders made by the Poor-law Commissioners for the establishment of Unions up to the 6th May last. Mr. GILLOSI gave notice that in bringing up the report of the Committee on Postage, he should move that all official franks be abolished, and that an account be kept of the number of letters.=(Hear.)__ CALL OF THE ' HOUSE. Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice, that on the second reading of the Bank of Ireland Bill, he would move a call of the House. HILL COOLIES. Mr. LA BOUCHERE presented papers relating to the state of the health of the Hill Coolies in Demerara. He would take that opportunity of stating, that since the question was put to him a few days ago, he had looked more closely into the returns made to the Colonial Office upon the matter, and he found the mortality was not confined as he supposed to one estate ; the information before the Colonial Office did not show that the general state of health amongst the Hill Coolies was such as it ought to be ; but every particle of information that was before the Government was laid before the House, and he hoped it would be printed and in the hands of Members in a very few days. Sir J. GRAHAM begged to ask whether the Govern ment intended to take any steps upon the subject during the present Session. Mr. L ABOUC HE RE said the papers would be printed in a very few days, and he doubted whether it would be well to discuss the matter until they were in the hands of Hort. Members. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the House resolve itself into a Committee upon the Bank of Ireland Acts. Sir R. PEEL begged to ask what ccurse the Noble Lord intended to pursue with respect to the Poor-law Continuance 13111. Lord J. RUSSELL —lf he could not get it on that night, would move it first upon Monday, and he should then propose the Birmingham Police Bill. Sir R. PEEL begged to ask whether the Government had any authentic information relative to the events which had lately taken place in Syria--had they any information upon which they could rely. Lord J. RUSSELL said the Government had received general information upon the subject of the total defeat of the Turkish army—they had no details upon the subject more than had already appeared in the newspapers. BIRMINGHAM RIOTS. Sir E. WILMOT seeing the Hon. Member for West minster in his plac.e, begged to ask him the favour of not bringing on the motion be had in the paper respecting Lo vett's case, inasmuch as the papers upon the subject had not been printed Mr - . LEADER said it appeared that whether in great or in small things, the Government had only one weapon to use, viz., delay. He had wished to bring the matter under the notice of the House before the trial of the men, but of course he must postpone the subject, owing to the neglect of the authorities in the Home Office. - Sir E. WILMOT only begged for the postponement of the question because the papers were not ready. He was prepared to enter into the discussion then, but it would not be fair to the House to do so, until the papers were in the hands of Hon. Members. Mr. F. MA ULE said he had taken every means in his power to push forward the document. No time had been lost on his part. Mr. ELLIS wished to know whether the Noble Lord had intended to lay before the House all the documents he had in his possession relative to the late riots at Bir mingham. There were the original depositions sent to the Home Office and the Horse Guards, and, no doubt, the Noble Lord had received letters from various quarters on the subject, all of which he (Mr. Ellis) thought it was important should be before the House. Lord J. RUSSELL'S only objection to producing all the documents was, that they were very voluminous. The bettcz way would be if the Hon. Gentleman wished to have them before the House, for him to make a motion to that effect. Mr. ELLIS said it would be exceedingly unfair that any partial representations should be made to the House, and he would therefore give notice that on Monday he would'move that copies of all papers received by the Go vernment relative to the disturbances in Birmingham be laid before the House. BANK OF IRELAND ACTS. The House then went into Committee on the Bank of Ireland Acts. Mr. O'CONNELL would trespass on the attention of the House only a very short time, as he knew it was hope less to attempt to make any resistance to this destructive measure. He wished first to know from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who had talked about giving banking faci lities to houses of business and diff.l.ent Joint-stock Banks, whether these Banks were to be permit,cd to receive de posits ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that with respect to Joint-stock Banks not issuing paper money, there would be full power of discharging all the ordinary functions of bankers, but with respect to those Joint-stock Banks and banks in the country that issued Paper money,' having houses of business in Dublin, they would not be allowed to receive deposits, Mr. O'CONNELL did not think that any good or valid argument s could be adduced in. f avour .o f t h at li ne of conduct. H e would, however, con fi ne hi mse lf to t h e c questionh e q :Cr had bef ore t h e House. The Ch ance ll or o f t h e Ex stated th ere was . no com p ac t b e t we en him and the Bank of Ireland on this subject. Now it was rather unfortunate fortheßightHonourable Gentle man, that persons like a contract as an Bank of Ireland immediately i connected with the exhibited a document as Hon. Gentleman had made his the Bank stockyha thing d r could possibly be, and accord inglyTilat such a document did exhi.st per cent. before the Right in stating, t h i a e g, (Mr. i.ra m 0; Council)iu information ati believedu !l 'ha had ew statement in that House. Pl h rporting to be a con tract,nuite warranted a s t received ad ; i but a that tha it was not a contract he was quite read Chancellow of the Exchequer had stated ' it was not :con. tract. However, there had been neglect somewhere in having put it in the power of those persons to give the favoured few the opportunity of thinking and believing, and creating an impression, for their advantage, that such a contract existed. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had said—and it might have been his (Mr. O'Connell's) fault that he had not been able to discover that from the Act— that the Government were bound to keep in their hands the entire amount of the loan made by the Bank of Ireland, and that the Government was not at liberty to pay it back a gain. The abstract of the Acts he (Mr. O'Connell) had seen did not say anything to that effect, but if there was an Act compelling the Government to return the money in any given time, he had no doubt the House would hear from the Chancellor of the Exchequer what that Act was. The question upon the resolution before the House lay in a very narrow compass. There was no question as to free trade in banking to be decided by the House in the reso lution before it. The resolution was nothing but to con tinue the Bank of Ireland its privileges; that was to say, its monopoly of issue within a given space. He had not thought it right to allow the resolution to pass last night at so late an hour, and although he did not mean to give any vexatious opposition to it, yet he should oppose it as firmly as he could. The House had simply to decide that whether any case had been made out for continuing to the Bank of Jreland this monopoly.—( Hear, hear.) That case should be some services rendered by that Bank to the public. They had not been stated by the Right Hon. Gentlemen, and he ( Mr. O'Connell) would state just simply this, that so far from accommodating the public in any way, notwithstanding the existence of the Bank of Ireland, the Bank of England notes were at a discount in Dublin. They were not so valuable as the common currency of the country, and the Bank of Ireland gave no remedy for that depreciation of the Bank of England paper. It was a strange anomaly that there should be a Bank privilege in this country, and that the Bank of Ireland should be a legal tender in this country and in Ireland, and yet that the Bank of Ireland should be so constituted as not to give the means even of realising the proceeds of Ireland in this country in the shape of Bank notes. All the evidence adduced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer related to the panic of 1836. Now it was rather strange, but it was borne out by the evidence, that the panic was created by the misconduct of the Bank of Ireland. Upon the only instance mentioned by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Bank of Ireland was so mismanaged as actually to have been discounting at a low rate, having lessened their rate of discount at the time the Bank of England was raising their rate of dis count, so as distinctly to counteract the attempt of the Bank of England to limit the currency. They had, there fore, the Bank of England raising the rate of the exchanges to limit the currency, and thay had the Bank of Ireland lessening the rate of discount so as to increase the quan tity of gold in circulation, and thereby counteract the object of the Bank of England. And yet this resolution went to continue that monopoly of issue, the worst species of monopoly ; and the great manufacturing towns of Ire land were deprived of the same facilities of banking which other towns had, giving a priority and superiority to one class of towns over another, and that in favour of a Cor poration whose best title to it was founded upon their own gross mismanagement. And the evidence was distinct that they were in no correspondence with the Bank of England, that would enable them to regulate the cur rency. On the contrary, they were totally ignorant of all the disturbing facts which made it necessary for the Bank of England to reduce the currency ; and in the answers to the questions put by the Hon. Baronet on the other side, they showed they had no kind of correspondence with the Bank of England to enable them to co-operate with them. He would not go further into the subject. He should take the sense of the House on this question, and again must protest against the manner in which the people of Ireland had been treated in the matter by the sudden hurrying on of a plan of which, till within the last threcweeks, they bad no information. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he should have been satisfied to leave the question in the hands of the House ; had it not been for a matter per sonal to himself, on which he felt it absolutely necessary that he should immediately rise. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had a very convenient mode of dealing with personal charges. This was the second time—once last night, and now again—that the Learned Member had sug gested a personal charge, with a statement of his own un willingness, to believe it. But the impression conveyed to the public would alike be inconsistent with his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) public duty and private honour ; therefore, he was called upon in the most distinct and unequivocal manner, in which a direct con tradiction could be given from an individual to another,—to deny every part of the suggestion of the Hon. and Learned Member—a suggestion which amounted to nothing short of this :—that in his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer') official capacity he had stated to the House that he had not entered into any engagement with the Bank of Ireland,whereas that he had actually done what was tantamount to a contract—communicated a written engage ment to the " favoured few"—containing information which they had been enabled to turn to their private ad vantage. True, the Learned Gentleman had intimated that he did not believe it—perhaps in charity. If the Learned Gentleman did not believe it he ought not to have made the charge. If he believed it, he should have brought it forward—not in a mitigated, doubtful suggestion—but a distinct, unequivocal charge, with which he (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) might grapple; because the character of a public man was public property in this country, and any individual base enough to turn his offi cial knowledge to the pecuniary advantage of any parties, would be not only unworthy of the office he held, but un worthy of any respectful consideration. —( Hear, hear,) He called upon the Learned Gentleman to bring forward any evidence he could furnish as to this charge. He would not allow it to remain as matter of suggestion or insinuation; for elsewhere, or probably, in that House, his own contradiction might be considered only an equi vocal and parliamentary denial, and was, in fact, an ad mission of what he felt to be a foul calumny. Nor should it rest upon the option of the Learned Gentleman who might perhaps decline entering into it. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would tell the House the whole transaction; he would state the witnesses who might be examined. He would invite the House to examine them, though surely—that any man holding a high office in the Government should apply his official knowledge to influencing the public securities, and thus casting doubt on all public transactions—the characters of public men for the last fifty years might be a sufficient ground for discredit. He trusted the House would remember what the statement which he made last night was. He stated then that so far from following that which was the ordi nary course on similar occasions, namely, that of making a contract . with the Bank of Ireland, he had specially ab stained from any such course, and that consequently the Bill which lie should have to introduce in place of reciting, as was usual, that it was done with the consent of the Bank of Ireland—that portion, which was considered matter of contract, was left blank in the Bill to be filled up as might be thought expedient. Now he would tell the House ex actly what he had done. When the notice was given of the intention to bring this question forward, he asked the Honourable Member for Kilkenny to postpone the notice until he had requested the mem bers of the Bank of Ireland to come to this country. They accordingly came over here; from some cause or other over which the Hon. Member for Kilkenny had no con troul the notice was postponed ; but the gentlemen con nected with the Bank of Ireland came to London, and he had various interviews with them, as he had also had with a deputation from Drogheda, and one from the Provincial Bank of Ireland. When he had prepared his plan, he communicated it to all the parties whose interests might be affected by it. He communicated it to the deputa tation from Drogheda; they received from him the most complete description of the plan he intended to intro duce, and for the itruth of that he would appeal to the Hon. Member for that town. In like manner he had made the same statements to the Governor of the Bank of Ireland, and also to the deputation from the Provin cial Bank, but he accompanied that statement to the Bank of Ireland with this observation that he would not enter into any contract with them, and that they were not at liberty to bring it before the Court of Directors and Pro prietors until the decision of the House of Commons and Par liament should be taken. Such was the simple transaction. The Bank of Ireland had the same access to him as gentlemen from other establishments, and he should not have acted honestly with the Bank of Ireland, if he had admitted other classes to communicate with him, and excluded them.—( Hear, hear.) Such a course would, in his opi nion, have been against common sense and justice. That was precisely what had happened, and based upon that trans action the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin had suggested that he had entered into a contract with the Bank of Ireland, and that it could be proved, for the pur pose of enabling that establishment to obtain an advantage of 5 per cent. on their property. He would say that be had not been dealt justly with in this matter. Insinuations had been made respecting his conduct which ought not to have been made, unless those who made them were pre pared with evidence to substantiate them. He would inform the House of the names of the only gentlemen connected with the Bank of Ireland with whom he had held communication on this subject. These were Mr. Wilson, the Governor of the Bank of Ireland, a gentleman of known honour and respectability; Mr. Arthur Guineas, a gentleman well known in the commercial world ; and Mr. Carr, one of the Directors of the Bank of Ireland. All these gentlemen were forthcoming. The Hon. Gentle man might call upon them—they might be called to the Bar of that House, and asked if they knew of a single word that had passed that could afford any, the least founda tion for the suggestion of the Hon. Gentleman. He beg ged pardon of the House for thus speaking of matters per sonal to himself.—( Cheers.) He did not believe that in addressing an assembly of gentlemen—of men possessing honourable feelings—it was necessary to enter into this refutation, because they would not believe that a gentle man could be guilty of a dishonourable action.—( Cheers. ) But he knew that if be did not take this mode of confu tation, as well as of denial, he should hear cf this affair again. This was not the fir,t time that the Hon. Gentleman had made use of the words that the people of Ireland had been deceived by what had occurred before. He believed that on the occasion referred to the Hon. Member for Dundalk, who bad voted against him last night, had been present at the interview, and he would put it to him whether any thing had passed on that occasion which would justify any gentleman in asserting that he had been deceived by him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer). He had not spoken to that Honourable Gentleman on the subject, but he was sure that Honourable Gentleman would not allow imputa tions to be cast on any one r4pecting transactions to which he had been privy, and which it was in his power to refute. The House he trusted would excuse his occupying their time with a matter personal to himself—(Cheers)—but they must be fully aware that any man not sensitively alive to these points of personal honour, would be unworthy to fill the situation which he had the honour to occupy. He would now advert to the question mere immediately before the House, and would take the admission made b. the Hon. Gentleman, that the question was not so much one of free trade in banking, as of the free power of mak ing money by issuing promissory notes. As to a free trade in banking, provided it did not clash with a free power of mak ing money, he hoped no difliehlty would be found in intto ducing measures which would tend to the advantage of all. There was one to which he would now call the attention THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDA Y, JULY 27, 1839. of the House. The Hon. Gentlemen had been pleased to state, in alluding to the circumstances attending the panic of 1836, that that state of things had been occasioned al together by the misconduct of the Bank of Ireland. He had never contended that the conduct of the Bank of Ire land, in reducing the rate of discount, after the Bank of England had raised it, was wise or proper, but it by no means followed that the subsequent state of confusion in the country was owing to this conduct on the part of the Bank of Ireland. He would admit that there was on that' occasion misconduct, or mistake, on the part of the Bank of Ireland. But the Hon. Gentleman had said on a former occasion, and had again repeated, that the Bank of Ireland had been guilty of great misconduct, in being alto gether regardless of the state of the discount of the Bank of England, and in proof that they were so, it had been stated that they were ignorant on the subject. Now, if they would look to the evidence of Mr. Wilson, they would find that the Bank of Ireland was not altogether regardless of the state of the discounts of the Bank of England, nor ignorant of their operation; neither were they ignorant or regardless of the rate of foreign exchanges; but in reply to questions put by the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Taroworth, who was a Member of that Committee, Mr. Wilson had stated that they were not aware of the state of the American securities at that time, nor of the manner in which those securities had been affected, or had been instrumental in producing the state of commercial distress. He believed the Bank of Ireland regulated their affairs by considering, first the rate of discount ; second, the state of the Foreign exchanges, and thirdly, the amount of specie and security in possession of the Bank of England. These were the exponents to which they ought to direct their attention. He did not know if it was the duty of the Bank of England to acquaint the Bank of Ireland with the state of their securities, but it was clearly the duty of the Bank of Ireland to attend to these exponents, which the Legislature had provided as guides to them in conducting their bank ing operations. He did not justify the conduct of the Bank of Ireland on that occasion, and it was not for the sake of the Bank of Ireland that he asked the House to adopt this measure. He only asked support for it, in so far as it was of importance to the public interest. He did not come for ward to propose this for the advantage of the Bank of Ire land. He knew little of any individuals connected with that establishment, he had been connected with establishments which were its rivals in trade, and therefore could not be supposed to have any great fondness for or interest in sup porting the Bank of Ireland ; but he proposed this reso lution because he thought it was for the benefit of the country. Those who thought with the Hon. Member for Kilkenny that a free trade in banking would - be a public benefit, all those who desired to desired to see every in dividual possessed of the power of embarking as a banker, would very properly object to it; but gentlemen who did not go to that length, although they might differ in opinion as to the extent to which the principle might be carried, should support it because their differences might be taken into consideration when they got into Committee. The Hon. Gentleman had adverted to the state of the law respecting Bank of England notes being a legal tender in Ireland ; and after mentioning the fact that Bank of England notes are sometimes at a discount in Ireland, had contended that this must be owing to some delin quency part of the Bank of Irel an d. The fact was of Ireland bad nothing whatever to do with it, en an on and consequently the Bark khe.could not be considered responsible. Bank of England notes were only known in Dublin like any other security. If the supply exeeded the demand they were cheap and at a discount, and if they were few in number and less than the demand then they fetched a higher price and were at a premium, and the Bank of England note like every other commercial security would vary in value in the market. But the Bank of Ireland had been accused of having acted unjustly by refusing these notes---he wished to explain the state of the law on this subject, When Lord Spencer introduced the Bank Charter Act he introduced a clause making bank notes a legal tender in any place except by the Bank themselves. It was not the intention of Lord Spencer that this clause should affect Ireland or Scotland. He had said as the reason for making these notes a legal tender that they might always be taken to the Bank of England and specie obtained for them, and therefore that they might fairly be made a legal tender in other parts of England. But this argument was not applicable to Ireland. A person re ceiving a note at Dundalk could not step across the way to the Bank of Ireland to get gold for it, but would be obliged to cross the Channel. The same argument would apply to Scotland ; and it had never been the intention of Lord Spencer that this law should be applied to those countries, and for some time this was considered to be the state of the law. But in 1834 a question arose as to whether these notes were a legal tender in Ireland. The opinions of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and of the Attorney and Solicitor-Generals were in favour of their being a legal tender. Other high legal authorities differed from them, but as the Law Officers of the Crown had given their opinion, the Government determined to abide by it, and receive their notes in the collection of the reve nue. The Hon. Gentleman objected to this, and he con sidered that he was ,right in doing so, as he thought it wrong to make paper a legal tender that was not imme diately convertible into gold, and it was his intention to en deavour to remedy this. It had been stated that the people of Ireland had been taken by surprise by the proposal of this measure at so late a period of the Session, that they had no notice, and that the people of Ireland had made this a subject of complaint, and the people of Drogheda had been particularly mentioned. Now he held in his hand a Drogheda paper, printed at Drogheda, from which he would read a few extracts in answer to these charges. It was an account of a meeting at Drogheda summoned to meet a deputation which had been with him (the Chancel lor of the Exchequer) on this subject, and the members of which attended the meeting to give an account of the pro ceedings. The Mayor, who had been a member of that deputation, stated to the meeting that they had found the Chancellor of the Exchequer assuming a tone different from what they had expected, and that he was inclined to yield more than they had at first expected.—(Hear.) He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had on that occasion explained to them his plan, which did not differ from the one he was now about to propose—he had not given up any part of it, but he had merely explained to them that he intended to introduce certain improvements in Joint stock Banks, whereas they had before considered that it was his intention to leave the subject. They proceeded to state that they got so much from him, theytgEhuenant English maintained thichsemheyyh gentlemen eat hdm uappliedb s alluded et Members. their dordteiHnothing ffieen d hostiledifferent Members e doing s e i t in i o b i r i s n .o h f o Pr e ah s re t ly o i a mt get heenn more ,sotar state t de ; b were sorry to r emar k that nothing could exceed the igno rance on Irish a ff a i rs manifested by the most acute of the iera e nyof e t m he . to i d notha kw supportedi wh e thew twhether Hn• m ber for Kilkenny on this occasion. They then state that they endeavoured to get hold of the Conservatives. They had waited on Mr. Ellis, of Newry, who had waited on Sir Robert Peel, and appointed a time to introduce them. At the conclusion of the address there was this sentence— " I will conclude by stating, the Chancellor of the Exche quer made this concession because he heard it whispered we should muster a formidable opposition." He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had made no concession at all, but they said, according to the report, " We did not make the concession, because in fact our leader, Mr. Hume, who is opposed to every species of compromise, would not let us, if even we were so inclined."—( Laugh ter.) That was the account they gave of their own pro ceedings. There was not one word of complaint of being uninformed of the details of his plan, nor one word of ob jection to the plan as far as it went; but, on the contrary, they claimed it as their own, and considered it was greatly for their benefit. Mr. Canning, it was well known, had said in that House, on a memorable occasion, " this is my thunder," so these parties said, " this is our banking Bill." He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) contended this was a measure which, while it would give relief to one party would accommcdate all. He thanked the HCuse for having indulged him in making this explanation, and begged to state that Government did not wish to hurry the Bill through the House, but would give every facility to Hon. Gentlemen to state their objections to the measure. Mr. O'CONNELL wished to make a few observations in explanation. The Right Hon. Gentleman had alluded to what he ( Mr. O'Connell) had said with reference to the arrangement with the Bank of Ireland. He did not shrink from one word he had said with respect to that, nor had any thing that had fallen from the Right Hon. Gen tleman altered his opinion on that subject. He did not suppose that any person could have fancied, when he had talked of " a favoured few," that he meant they were favoured by the Chancellor of Exchequer, and he thought the Right Hon. Gentleman had made use of a great deal of unnecessary dsclamation in that respect. He (Mr. O'Connell) had t meant that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had entered into any pecuniary arrangement with the Bank, or had permitted any body to do so. He had no such idea, but what he had said was, that Bank Stock bad risen 3 per cent. in consequence of its having been believed a compact had been entered into with the Government. Then, again, he had not brought a charge against the Bank of Ireland for allowing the notes of the Bank of England to circulate at a discount ; on the contrary, he had stated they had no means of regulating the currency. If the Chancellor Of the Exchequer meant to continue the privilege to the Bank of I reland, wh y di d he not throw on it the burthen of making arran g ements w ith the Bank of England, or let the B ank of En g lan d have an agency o office in Dublin, so that there mi g ht not b e that difference in the circulation ? Th en as to the re p or t of the meeting at Drogheda, which th e Chancellor of the Exchequer had ) wished the He had stated the co nversation which took place between the deputation and t he Chancellor of the Exchequer at a made ßight such Honourable use of. Gentleman lie ( Mr. joy O of former period. He believed that no d eception was in tended by by the R i g ht Hon. Gentleman, b ut the result of it was necessari l y a deception, because th e public could not understand why the Chancellor o f the Exchequer 'Cn it.n_el(l Hear, hear. ) began with the deputation upon an hypothesis. And he now asked the Right Hon. Gentleman what business he had to do it? The Right Hon. Gentleman said, not pledging himself to any thing, that suppose the limits of the Bank of Ireland monopoly was limited within a circle of 20 miles round Dublin, would there then be any objection to the renewal of the Charter?—( Hear, hear)—and said if the Right Hon. Gentleman reduced the limits, so as to leave Drogheda and some other towns the same privileges as Belfast and other places, there would be no dissatisfaction. He ( Mr. O'Connell) was induced to believe that to be the Chancellor of the Exchequer's opinion, and that he did not pledge himself merely because it had not then become a Cabinet measure. Ile was deceived by that, and so here the people.---( Hear, hear.) Almost the whole of the Deputation assented of Ireland, and remained in that condition until three weeks ago, when the Hon. Member for Drogheda stated that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had told him the limits were to remain at 50 miles.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. RE DI NG TON said the impression on his mind was exactly the same as that which was conveyed to the mind of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin. When the House met this year lie had no reason to suppose that the opinion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was changed, and was extremely surprised when he heard of his intention to bring forward dila measure, The Right Hon.. Gentleman had stated that the deputation went back to . DrOgiteda, and made no objection;. That was entirely -a mistake, for one objection was that the Joint-stock Banks would be at the mercy of the Bank of Ireland. With regard to the legalization of Bank of England notes in Ireland, that was a question which he trusted would be set at rest. Al though he might be favourable to the establishment of one sole bank of issue, be saw no reason why Dublin should be made the centre of a system which should have a little mo nopoly of its own--( Hear, hear, hear.) He pro tested against this monopoly being continued, because the Bank of Ireland did not answer any of the purposes of a national bank. That was his great objection to the measure, and he had not seen anything in the course of the debate to alter his determination. Sir W. SOMERVILLE said, if his recollection served him, the first question introduced when the deputa tion waited on the Chancellor of the Exchequer was, whether or not Newry, Dund a lk, or D rogheda, shou ld b e excluded from the circle, and th at po i nt appeared to hi m to be entirely given up.—(Hear, hea r .) Th ey t h en pro ceeded to debate the question of whether the monopoly should be continued, and he believed there was some un derstanding that the circle should be limited. But of this he was quite certain, that t hey all left th e Ch ance ll or o f the Exchequer under the conviction that the thr ee pl aces w hi c h he had named were to be admitted to banking privileges, and this he recollected particularly, that when his Hon. Friend was displeased that the monopoly was not entir e ly given up, he turned round to him and ”id that Drogheda was safe—( Hear, hear)—and he remained in this state until three weeks ago, when the Chancellor of the Ex chequer stated what he meant to do. He trusted that his Right Hon. Friend would reconsider the question, and endeavour to give general satisfaction by extending to these towns the privileges which they required. Mr. HUME said that when one of the gentlemen from Newry called on him, it was stated that the deputation were afraid a compromise had taken place, because the Royal Bank of Ireland, and the Commercial Bank, and the Provincial Bank, which had been anxious to remove the monopoly of the Batik of Ireland, had all on a sudden relaxed their opposition, and returned to Dublin; and that an arrangement had been made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to satisfy these banks, so that, by dividing the opposition, he might be able to carry the measure. He (Mr. Hume) said that his object was to free Ireland from its present monopoly, a n d h e o bj ecte d t o a ll compromise, and asked why the people of Ireland should submit to that which the people of Scotland would feel disgraced by do ing. When an attempt was made to interfere with Scot. land, the Members for Scotland compelled the measure to be given up ; and if the Members for Ireland would do the same, it would be impossible for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to carry measures inconsistent with the utility of the banking system in Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) Ho understood that an interview was expected with Sir R. Peel, and he said that he was glad of it, because he having been the individual to place the currency on its proper metallic standard in 1819—having been a party to that report which stated that the Bank of England could not return to issue money until it was freed from its securi ties—he was sure he could not agree to the proposition of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, unless it was founded on some intelligible principle. He was sorry they had not bad the benefit and support of the Right Hon. Baro net's opinion, but trusted that he would to-night state whether he thought this was a wise course to take, when there was an opportunity of trying what might be the effect of introducing the system which was in practice in Scotland, and had worked so well there. He wished to see one system of banking through Ireland as well as Scotland, and because he wished that the Right Hon. Gentleman had said that his object was to overturn the whole system of banking in Ireland; He could assure the [louse that he had no such object in v iew. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in the speech he had made last night, had not given any good reason why the large towns of Dundalk and Newry should not have the same advantages as other commercial towns. Why, he would ask, should Belfast and Limerick have advantages which Dundalk did not possess? What was the ground on which the limitation was continued? It was this, that the bankers and merchants of Ireland, when they came within this magic circle, conducted their busi ness properly, but when out of it they did not. He thought the Government had acted and would act most unfairly if they continued to enforce in places within a certain dis trict from Dublin a different system of banking than existed in other parts of the country. He thought the monopoly of the Bank of Ireland ought to be removed, and such being his opinion he was determined to offer every fair opposition to the measure. Sir R. PEEL could not exactly see the justice of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny in calling upon him to support the view he took of the subject in consequence of the course he had pursued in 1819. It was true that in that year he had brought forward and carried a measure for converting the paper circulation into gold, but he did not see that on that account he was therefore bound, or could be called upon to support a measure to make banking free. His own opinion was, and always had been, that it would be dangerous that banking should be left entirely free. When in 1819 he proposed that bank paper should be converted into gold, he did not propose to destroy the privilege of the Bank of England.—( Hear, hear.) He regretted greatly that this measure had been pro posed at so late a period of the Session, because he had heard no reason why it should be - brought forward. It was true that some measures that had been brought forward were necessary to be brought in, but he did not see why a question with respect to banking should be brought forward at so late a period.—( Hear, hear.) He thought, looking at the great• quantity of business that was before the House, when it was considered that there were 28 Orders of the Day that must be disposed of that night in some way or other, he thought a measure like this ought to be postponed to another Session. Of this he was convinced, that unless some different mode was adopted of carrying on the business of the House to that which at present existed they would lose their character in the country. He was sure that if measures such as the present were discussed at such a period the House would be delegating, as they bad done in the Post Office Bill, those powers to others which they ought only to exercise themselves.—(Hear.) He must confess that although he had come to the conclusion that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had come to on this ques tion, he was not convinced by the arguments he had used. —( Hear, hear.) He had said, look at the difference be tween Scotch banking and that in Ireland. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that the capital of the banks in Scotland was tenfold that of Ireland. If such was the case, he would say, why not adopt the Scotch system?— (Hear, hear.) He thought the House ought to take a comprehensive view of the subject, and not allow it to be inferred that because one system answered in Scotland it must follow, as a necessary consequence, that it would an swer in Ireland. That, in his opinion, was not a fair way of considering the case. He thought that a great deal depended upon the manners of the inhabitants of the country.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") Notwithstand ing all that had been said as to the small quantity of gold required in Scotland , as compared with Ireland, for the purposes of banking, he believed that the Scotch were as fond of gold as the people of England or Ireland, but a great deal depended upon prejudice.—( Hear, hear.) He did not think they could fairly consider Scotland as a country entirely free from England; he thought the banks in Scotland leaned as much upon the Bank of England for gold as the Joint-stock Banks did, and there- fore it was that he did not think them a fair criterion. He could not agree to throw the entire trade of banking in Ireland open without great consideration. With respect to the deputations that had waited upon him he must say he was surprised to see a statement of what had taken place published in the Newspapers of the day, with comments upon it. He did not care for this, but he thought it would have been much better that it should not have taken place, because he thought it was a check to free discussion, and another objectio❑ to it was that the slightest alteration in an expression often caused the public to draw a wrong conclusion as to what had really taken place. He hoped upon the whole that the present measure would be postponed to another Session. He understood that there were some pecuniary arrange ments which it was necessary should be made—those, he was in hopes, might be accomplished without the neces sity for enforcing the present measure during this Session. In the presynt state of banking affairs, and in the pre sent crisis of the commercial affairs of that country, and considering that the whole subject would be brought under the notice of Parliament in the course of the next Session, be thought it would be advisable to renew the charter for another year. He hoped it would not be de ferred till the necessity arose, because the inevitable con sequence of deferring the consideration of the question till the last moment would be the renewal of the charter for four or five years more.—(Hear, hear.) As to what extent the Government should have control over the cir culation of the country for the purpose of preventing the disarrangement of the foreign exchanges, and of preserv ing their commercial character and credit, the whole of that question should be deliberately considered. He thought they should consider the question of the Bank of Englank and the Bank of Ireland together, He was unwilling to throw open the system of banking in Ireland in the intermediate time, and therefore, perhaps, the most advisable course would be to renew the charter of the Bank of Ireland until that of the Bank of England ex: pired, coupled with a distinct intimation that the whole question should be maturely and deliberately considered, not in 1843, when they were about to expire, but at such an early period as would give them a chance, by fully con. sidering the subject, of arriving at a satisfactory arrange. ment.—( Hear, hear.) , Mr. W. ROCHE thought it a great injustice that some of the large towns in Ireland enjoyed a free trade in bank ing while others were precluded from it. He agreed with the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, that the question of banking in Ireland should be taken up and timely dis cussed, instead of postponing it till the last moment. Hav ing paired off for the remainder of the Session he was precluded from giving a vote upon the subject.—(Much laughter.) He could not, however, refrain from saying that were it not for that circumstance he should have felt great pleasure in recording his vote, and expressing his opinion of the inexpediency of continuing these privileges to the Bank of Ireland.—(Hear.) Mr. WARBURTON thought the subject should be allowed to stand over till the next Session, when a Com mittee might be appointed at an early period to consider the whole question. For that purpose, and in order to keep the matter in their own hands, he would propose that the Charter of the Bank of Ireland be not renewed.—. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") It appeared to him from the evidence before the Committee that the system of Banking in Ireland was far superior to that in Scotland. —( Hear, hear.) In the former country, when there was a run upon the banks, they invariably demanded bullion for their notes, while in the latter they were satisfied with a draft or bill upon Edinburgh or London. Ile should certainly oppose the renewal of the Charter of the Bank of Ireland. Sir A. JEPHSON NORRIS thought an importance had been given to the operations of the Bank of Ireland which it did not deserve. A very small proportion of tie circulation of Ireland would be affected by the power of issuing notes in Dublin, because the great bulk of the trade was carried on in the large provincial and seaport towns. Hesaw so little inconvenience in remaining as they were for another year that he would rather allow matters to remain as they were than oppose the Charter ef-tho. Bank_ of. Ireland.- Mr. AUL LIERS said the object of the Hon. Member fur Kilkenny was to do away with the monopoly of the Bank of Ireland. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said he did not stand up as the advocate of the Bank of Ireland, and the question then was, whether these privileges, which everybody condemned, were to be con tinued ?—( Hear, hear.) He was surprised to hear the Hon. Member for Bridport say there was a free trade in banking in Ireland. Ireland was a very obnoxious term in that House, but it was necessary they should understand what was meant by the term free trade in banking. There was nothing in a free trade in banking which precluded these companies from being restricted by the Government as to their proceedings.—( Hear, hear.) He was sur prised to hear the. Hon. Member for the Tower Hamlets say that the system of a paper currency convertable into gold at sight had failed. Why the Bullion Committee had reported that to be the only safe and economical cur rency, and Mr. Horner, Mr. Huskisson, and Mr. Ricardo, entertained the same opinions. What new light had sprung up, to shew that that system was an erroneous one ? America had been referred to, but that was no fair test of that system, inasmuch as paper was then made a legal tender, and taxes were paid in it. He maintained, with the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, that there could not be an over issue when the notes were made payable at sight. If there was an over-issue the paper became depreciated, and was purchased up. During the war that had been frequently done, and if they only realized I- per cent. the profit was sufficient to remunerate the parties who presented the paper. That was the great check upon the over-issue of paper in that country. So long as they had two great Joint-stock Companies influencing the commerce and cir culation of the country and the world, wi-h extraordinary privileges, they could not give the system a fair trial. He did not know what the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancel lor of the Exchequer) meant by continuing the monopoly--it was a continuance of the system he had himself condemned, and he feared if the present opportunity was lost it would perpetuate the system for four or per Laps ten years. The fact was, the subject was distasteful to the House. They were not thoroughly acquainted with it, and its discussion would be just as objectionable and distasteful in 1840 as it was in 1839. He feared, therefore, there was nothing in perspective but a continuation of these two most mis chievous monopolies of the Bank of England and the Bank Ireland. Any person who read Mr. Huskisson's speeches in 1826, and who knew what was the opinion of that pe riod, must be convinced that if the House did its duty, the charter never would have been continued. He feared in 1840 or 1842, there would be the same listless and reck less system of legislation at a period of the Session when Hon. Members were heartily tired of it. Let them take advantage of the present opportunity, and put an end to that most mischievous monopoly, which had been productive of much evil to Ireland. For these reasons he should vote most strenuously against the renewal of the Charter.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. ELLIS thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer had very little reason to congratulate himself upon having brought the subject under the consideration of the House. The Chancellor of the Exchequer stated that that was a question of greater importance than any that had been discussed concerning Ireland. He conceded that to him, but in doing so he should not refrain from remind ing him that they were discussing that important matter on the 26th of July, and he thought they-had a right to com plain of the unfair manner in which they were treated by having that important question brought on so late. It had been agitated for four years, and was of importance enough to have formed a topic in the Royal Speech.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He confessed that he saw no reason why the privileges of the Bank of Ireland, which amounted to a monopoly, should be continued. The accomoda tion afforded by the Bank was not adequate to the new wants of the commercial community. If the system was good for Dublin, why should it not be extended to Liverpool and Bir mingham? If the monopoly was to be continued, why should it be confined to the Bank of Ireland ? It was proved that the fluctuations in Scotland had been much less than those in Eng land and Ireland, owing to the banking system, then carried on. Why should that system not be extended to Ireland. There were other banks who would gladly perform all the duties now performed by the Bank of Ireland, and for which she was well paid.—(Cries of " Question, question.") He was sorry to detain the House—(Hear, hear) he would merely inform them of the state of commercial accommodation afforded to the place he had the honour of representing. In Newry, with its 13,000 inhabitants, and trading to the amount of 1,135,5.171., the accommodation afforded by the Bank of Ireland in 1832 was 293,8001., while in 1836 it was only 16 4 ,0001., so that while trade was increasing, the accommo dation was decreasing. The monopoly ought to cease, and Ireland ought to be put upon the same footing with Scotland and England—by continuing the monopoly they did not give Ireland a fair chance.—(Loud cries of " Divide.") Mr. O'CONNELL said the Right Hon. Baronet, the Mem ber for Tamworth, had thrown out a suggestion which ought to be acted upon—let the whole empire be treated alike on such a question. The privileges of the bank were continued according to the present laws so long as the Government pleased therefore the question did not press. Why not leave it till next Session, when it might be consi dered in reference to the whole kingdom. In one of the Dublin papers it was stated, with respect to the inter view of the deputation with the Chancellor of the Ex chequer, that he agreed in the necessity of giving free banking trade to Drogheda and Dundalk. That was the opinion of the deputation. Many persons had a greater opinion of the inge nuity than of the sincerity of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and they were justified in that opinion by his conduct on this occa sion. As the mistake has only been discovered within these three weeks, he trusted the further consideration of the ques tion would be postponed till the next Session, and he therefore moved that the Chairman leave the chair. The Committee then divided, when the numbers were— For the motion Against it Majority —s6 The House again divided on the original motion, when there appeared— For the motion Against it Majority -55 In answer to a question by Mr. ELLIS, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he should bring up the Report on Monday, and introduce the Bill. The House then resumed. METROPOLITAN POLICE COURTS RILL. Mr. FOX MAULE moved that the House resolve itself into Committee on the Metropolitan Courts Bill. Clause 1 was agreed to. On clause 2 being proposed, Col. T. WOOD proposed that the number of Magistrates be twenty instead of twenty-seven. Mr. LAW suggested the postponement of this section and several other clauses until the House had decided whether they would entrust to the Magistrates the extraordinary powers proposed by this Bill. Mr. FOX MAULE could not consent to the postponement of the clause. The Bill had been a long time before the House, and if any amendments were intended to be proposed ample time had been afforded for doing so. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL could not see the object that would be obtained by postponing the clause. Mr. HAWES thought the amendment of the Hon. and Gallant Member for Middlesex for reducing the number of Magistrates to 20 would be attended with considerable ill ef frets. Mr. KEMBLE would support the amendment of the Hon and Gallant Member for Middlesex. After a short discussion, Col. T. WOOD withdrew his amendment. And The Committe divided upon the question, that the clause be postponed, when there appeared— For the postponement 24 Against it Majority against the postponement —44 On our return to the Gallery, we found Colonel WOOD suggesting that it would be better to leave out the number of Magistrates altogether. If twenty-seven was placed in the Bill, it was a sort of index that that number would be appointed; and he should, therefore, move that the number be omitted. After a few words from Mr. HumE and Lord J. RUSSELL, the amendment was withdrawn and the clause agreed to. Clause 3, relating to the retired allowances of Magistrates, was agreed to, after a few verbal amendments. _ _ _ On clause 4 being put, as to the appointment of Recorders, Mr. LAW moved that it be postponed. After a few words from the ATTORNEY-GENERAL the gallery was cleared for a division, but none took place. Mr. LAW then proposed that the Magistrates should be appointed from barristers of ten years' standing instead of seven. Mr. WAKLEY said in society it was generally found that barristers were more devoid" of common sense than any other class.—(Laughter.) Their education almost incapacitated them from knowing what was going on in society. They were one day paid for converting truth into falsehood, and the next day they were paid for converting falsehood into truth, and thus they went on until they had the greatest difficulty in discovering one from the ether. This was a proposition for converting barristers into Government toad-eaters.—(Much laughter.) The Secretary of State ought to have the fullest opportunity of selecting from any class whatever, where he could find per sons best qualified for filling the office, and h e should propose the omission of the words, " Barristers of seven years' standing." Mr. LAW said he should not enter into a defence of the pro fession from the attack just made on them. Their character was their best defence. Mr. FOX MAULE opposed the proposition of the Hon. Member for Finsbury. Mr. WAKLEY said he should divide the House on his amendment, and trusted the House would reject the clause. Mr. HUME thought that men might be found in otoer classes of society equally well qualified to fill the situation of Magistrates with Barristers. The Secretary of State ought to have a discretion to appoint the most proper person, and he should support the amendment. Mr. HAWES trusted the House would not agree to the amendment of the Hon. Member for'Finsbury. This was a judicial situation, and the person filling it, ought to have a judicial qualification. If this proposition should be agreed to, it would open a door for the admission of persons who might be wholly incompetent to fill the situation. The gallery was then cleared for a division, but Mr. Wakley withdrew his amendment, and none took place. Mr. LAW also withdrew his amendment, and the clause was agreed to. On clause 5 being put, Mr. LAW moved as an amendment that the Magistrates to be appointed under the Bill should hold their office during their good behaviour. Mr. KEMBLE wished to know whether there was any clause in the Bill giving a power to the Secretary of State to remove the Magistrates appointed under the 13111? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said if they were not ap pointed during good behaviour they could be removed. Strangers were then ordered to wit hdraw, Committee divided, when there appeared — For the amendment .............................. 25 vrbalamendments.ee Against it .......................... , ...... ' i —.59 ...".n"du"nts.. 84 Majority the amendments, was a gree d to. The clause,with a verbalafgnewst Clause 6 was agreed to, with some amendment F I L 0' a nd bei riog o wr : oo ear l de t a e g H l r a c e r e g d e o increase in the salaries of the Clauses uclause , per annum, and it was now Mr. HUME objected thought they could get men of proposed to make it 1,-0 . They had formerly 14001. Magistrates. adequate talents and ability to fill the office for 1,000/., and he should propose that the sum he 1 ,0001. instead of 1,200/. There was a chie f magistrate, to whom it was proposed to give 1,4001, and he should propose to reduce that to 1,9.00/. Mr. AGLIONBY thought there ought to be no distinction be tween the salaries of the chief and the other parties. The only ad ditional chit/ he had to perform Was to go to the Home Office and have a little conversation with the Secretary•: Mr. FOX MAULE said these salaries had not been fixed without reference to the Report and recommendation ot‘ the Committee. He thought a salary of 1,200/. a-year could not. be considered too high for the important duties they had to perform. The present salary of the Chief Magistrate was 1,2001., and he thought an addi. Con of 2001. was not exorbitant. Mr. ICA WES begged to remind "the House that Cohimrssfonere iiil - riaers, who had by no means such important duties to perform were paid as high, if not higher, than it was proposed to pay these EVENING EDITIO. N. Magistrates. Besides, if the House sanctioned the Bill, i, t would confer additional duty upon these Magistra:es; and extend th, -irju risdiction. He did not think that a salary of SOO/. rot' an, num could enable the Home Secretary to secure the ablest men in these situations, as such had been proved to be the case under th e present system. He trusted, therefore, the House would not think it an exercise of too great liberality to give a fair remuneration to these persons. Mr. WILLIAMS supported the amendment of the Hon. Mem ber for Kilkenny, because he had heard no grounds for the large exercise it was proposed to make in the salaries of these functiona ries. The argument of the Hon. Member for Lambeth was that because they paid other persons large salaries for doing little or no thing, they should now pay these gentlemen more than they were in the habit of receiving. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE would most certainty support the Amend. meat of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny. A salary of 8001. a year had produced such men as Col. Rowan and Mr. Mayne, and he had objected to their salaries being increased to 1,2001. ; although, if any men deserved ar. increase of their salaries, it was these most efficient men.—(Hear, hear.) Now it was pro posed to give men who had never been tried a salary of 1,2001., when i t was well known that they could get men of eminence in the profession to fill these situations at a salary of 1,0001. a year. Colonel SIBTHORP had cheerfully voted for an increase to the salaries of Colonel Rowan and Mr. Mayne, for no men had better deserved it.—(Hear, hear.) That he should certainly oppose the present proposition. He supposed the increased expenditure would be met by a further issue of Exchequer bilis, but upon his soul he would not trust the Government with a sixpence. —(Laughter.) Mr. GROTE did not think that any sufficient ground had been stated for fixing the salary of the Chief Magistrate at a higher amount than that of the other Magistrates. He did not think 1,200/. a year was too large a salary for the Magistrates. Mr. C. BULLER thought the reduction now proposed was a most paltry economy, and he could not consent to fixing the sala ries of judicial officers at less than 1,200/. a year. He also consi dered that the Chief Magistrate ought to have a larger salary than the others, in order that the prospect of promotion might Le held out. . Mr. LAW mill as the duties were to be increased, the salaries ought to be increased also; but whatever the salary might be they would not be in an independent situation if they were liable to be removed at the caprice of the Government. After a few remarks from Mr. HINDE, Mr. P. HO WARO said he considered 1,0001. a year quite sufficient for the services of a Police Magistrate, and was certain that adequate men might be found for the discharge of the duties at that sum. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL did not think the proposed salary was too large. Those who administered justice to the poor ought to be amply remunerated, and he was convinced they would not be able to command proper talent for less than 1,200/. What ever the salary might be generally, he was strongly of opinion that there ought to be one Magistrate at their head with something more. Mr. PLUMPTRE thought the salary now under concideration was a piece of extravagance. What did they give to the chaplain. of gaols ? Did they give them 1,000/. a year ? No, nor ant's thing like it, and he should vote against the present proposition. Lord G. SOMERSET said it was most important that these viduals should be fully qualified to discharge their duties, and he thought 1,0001. a-year would command the services of efficient men. Colonel WOOD thought there ought to be two grades of salary, and that as vacancies occurred the juniors should be promoted. Mr. WARBURTON thought that 1,2001. a_year was not too much for a married man to enable him to lead a respectable and regular life.---(Laughter.) Mr. ACLAND was in favour of a higher rate of salary. Mr. AGLIONBY thought that all the Magistrates ought to be put upon equality with respect to salary, and would take the sense of the House upon it, conceiving that making a distinction between the salary of the Chief and the other Magistrates would lead to sub. serviency. Mr. SHEPHERD thought that Magistrates should be com pelled to attend at their offices at hours which were convenient to the public. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Committee divided, when there appeared— For the Motion 46 For the Amendment Majority for the Amendment —l6 On the question that 1,2001. should be inserted, Mr. HUME moved, as an amendment, that 1,0001. should be inserted. Mr. DUNCOMBE said that there would be plenty of barristers applying for the situations, and men of talent, too, if the salary was only SOW. a year. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Committee divided, when the numbers were— For the amendment Against it 57 Majority. The clause was then agreed to. On clause I I being read, Mr. F. MAULE said, that after the long period that had been occupied in discussing the Bill, he should now move that the Chair man report progress, and ask leave to sit again that day.—(Cries of " No, no.") Mr. LAW would object to the motion. He should move that the Committee do proceed with the Bill. Mr. DUNCOMBE said it had been objected to sit on that day (Saturday) at an early hour of the evening, and it would be unfair, because there had been opposition to the Bill, to proceed with it at twelve o'clock. Lord J. RUSSELL said, as the House had sat to so late an hour, he thought it would not be advisable to sit on Saturday. Col. J. WOOD moved the omission of the clause. After a long discussion, the Gallery was cleared, but no division took place, and the clause was agreed to. Clause 12 was also agreed to. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and obtained leave fo sit again. POSTAGE DUTIES BILL. The Postage Duties Bill was reported, and ordered to be read a third time on Monday next. NEW SOUTH WALES BILL Mr. LABOUCHERE moved the third reading of this Bill. blr. C. BULLER hoped the Bill would not be pressed at that late hour (half-past one o'clock). It was a measure of great im portance, and same discussion on the subject of lands in New South Wales ought to take place. Mr. LABOUCHERE believed the Bill was one to which no ob jection could be made. If it was necessary it should undergo any discussion, he believed a more convenient opportunity for doing so than the present would not present itself this Session. The Hon. Member could raise a discussion on the Colonial Estimates. Mr. WILLIAMS moved that the House do adjourn.—(Oh, oh.) The Bill proposed a tax en the people of this country to the extent of 5,400/. a year. Colonel SIB THORP seconded the motion. Lord JOHN RUSSELL hoped that Hon. Members would not press their opposition to the Bill. Mr. C. BULLER was averse to the Bill passing without any comment being made on the conduct of the Government of New South Wales. Mr. WILLIAMS withdrew his motion, and the third reading of the Bill was postponed till Monday. Lord J. RUSSELL said the opposition to the Factory Bill had been such, on account of the silk-mills not being within its opera.. tion, that he felt bound to withdraw it. This Bill was also withdrawn. SHANNON NAVIGATION. The Shannon Navigation Bill was read a third time and passed, SO AP DUTIES. The Soap Duties Regulation Bill was then read a second time. JURORS AND JURIES (IRELAND.) The Jurors and Juries (Ireland) Bill was read a third time and passed. MILITIA BALLOTS SUSPENSION. The Militia Ballots Suspension Bill was read a third time and passed. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at a 2uarter before Two. BIRMINGHAM. (FROM OUR OWN CORRESPONDENT.) FRIDAY, FIVE O'CLOCK P.M. We are still in the undisturbed enjoyment of peace. Trade and industry are resumed, and all the late excitement has sunk into a calm. False alarms are, however, very rife, and every minute produces in the Public Office some extraordinary intelligence of pikes, combustible balls, and " crew hells," itc. The approaching trials engage all attention, and every exertion is making to secure a favourable result to the accused. There will not be more than six witnesses examined for the defence. The Warwick Assizes open to-morrow, and the Judges will deliver their charge on Monday. The Bill for a Local Police turns out a most unpalatable morsel to the people of Birmingham. PENNY POST FRANK. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. SIR-A great deal is being said about difficulty of ar ranging the p e nny po s t system ; pray a ll o w me s p ace t o endavour to show that it may be done easily and imme diately, with very small addition to present rules of office. Medicine stamps are well known at lid. each ; they are printed, many on a sheet, in various colours, with a very expensive machine (a model of one is shown in Woolwich Repository), and are considered safe from forgery. Such would, therefore, do very well for post stamps. The Post-office put two marks on the back of every unpaid letter —one, the name of the town whence it comes ; the other, the date of its arrival in London. Now, if it be provided that every letter shall have a stamp affixed on the back of it, the said post marks can be put partly over the stamp, which (particularly the date) would prevent its being used a second time ; and in order to induce the use of stamps, or pre-payment, it would be no great penalty to charge all letters with out stamps double, or 2d. The receivers of letters would soon arrange that matter with their correspond ents, the senders. An arrangement for larger letters, by putting two or more penny stamps on, according to the weight of the letter, is, of course, easy. This plan could be used by all public, as well as merchants' offices. Parliamentary papers , under regulations —a s open at the ends, &-c.—could be franked ; a l so pac k ets fromer fa public franking to offices, sbe if thought fit. AU P eers and Mem bersabolished, of course. It would be of no value. 0 it circulate is V obviu t hse that Nho o would stampsa the ; skfor a penny f ran k ? Now, i s o n ly preparation neces sary every shop where writ ing paper and pens are sold, would become also a place for the sale of post stamps, and competition would soon settle the rate of profit. Some shops, where there is small vend, would perhaps sell six stamps for 7d., others twelve for I s . Id . ; per tentage or profit decreasing ac cording to th e b us i ness done. Government would get the full p r i ce , there being no discount. With so simple an arrangement, can you, Mr. Editor, see why the popular measure cannot be put in operation in a month, or even less ; as it is not at all probable a very large increase of letters will occur at first, and it is admitted that the letter-sorters can do much more than they do at present ; indeed, the above mode would greatly simplify their work. X. Y. MIRACULOUS ESCAPE.—.-.AII escape of a mira culous nature happened to a gentleman yesterday,, opposite the Duke of Wellington's House, in Piccadilly. He was riding a thorough-bred grey mare down the ride in Hyde Park, when she bolted by the bridge at the Serpentine, a n d proceeded at full speed towards Apsley House. Every on e believed she would have gone straight to the side railings of the Duke's, but the entleman, by great exertion, turned her through the gate close to the house, and Was endea. vouring to get her down the Green Park side of Picca dilly, when the animal came with terrific violence against the iron railings of the Green Park. The gentleman was thrown, but, strange to say, sustained no injury. The mare forced her legs through the bars, and was much hurt. , The name of the gentleman did not transpire. THE LENGTH OF A LAWYER'S BEARD. In a parliament of the Inner Temple, held 6th of May, Ist ~and 2d Philip and Mary, a decree was made that niifaotr' of that house should wear his beard above three weeks growth, upon pain of 20s. forfeiture. ~._