The Sun. — London, England, 1844-02-07 00:00:00

ire}, R 1 ... .. isi f ms s. —4 * 551 101 MPERIAL PARLIAMENT -~.r,.~.,,~ HOUSE OF LORDS, Feb. 6. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the Wool taack at Five o'clock. LAWS RELATING TO GAMBLING. The Duke of - RICHMOND moved that the evidence taken before the Select Committee appointed to consider the laws relating to gambling, should be presented from tim e to tim e for the use of the House, but that it should not be delivered until further orders.—Agreed to. PROPERTY OF FELONS. The Duke •)f RICHMOND then proceeded to call the attention of his Noble Friend at the head of the C ouncil -office to a circular, dated the 2d of September, 1 843 , - 'which - was signed -by the Assistant-Secre lrY to the Treasury, and which had been sent to the different clerks of the peace of the United King dom. H e h ad no wish to throw any impediments in the ',way of th e G overnment, or to impute blame to any one ; 2ut he-thou g ht it much better that all communications !vain the Government to the magistrates, especially on matters relatingto the admi nistration ofjustiae as regarded criminals should bemade through the medium of the Secre taerY of State for the Home Department. Had such a course e. l l adopted i n th e p resent instance, the i rregu l ar i ty o f Which he had now to compl a i n wou ld not , i n a ll pro ability, have occurred. Their Lordships were aware _9lat th e property of all convicted felons was forfeited to I . ll e Cro wn , an d no d ou b t the Treasury were as anxious In get as much as they could from that source. It should, rivever, be recollected that the country gentlemen of - a n gland had to pay half tlav, expenses of these prosecu lions out of the county-rate,• s nd to maintain the criminals ' 4 , gaol ; and he thought /that, at all events, the county anould be reimbursed th e expenses which they had in aTtred, fr om th e f or f e it ed property Of criminals b e f ore I ms Crown s e i ze d it, bitving the residue, after the pay of .those exper.s to the Crown. However, he admitted that by taw.- the Crown was entitled to all the rperty of conei-, a d is letter was o-,ty felons. He was well aware that '!ould searcel :!.:r.easury a letter of advice, but magistrates this letter, inclined to think that the 'Lords of the w' Aid offer them bad advice. The paragraph in recommended that the justices should make v it e re ra t 6 l 7 n of all moneys taken from prisoners by the go q'the gaol. To that he did not object. The go all nor of every prison was bound to take an inventory of roPerty found on the prisoners, and he thought there • ed he no objection to that inventory being transmitted ink Treasur y • but there was another direction in the '',4o which he did object, and that was, that in cases has w aleh there was reason to suppose that the prisoner possessed of property ether than that found on his L et aoo, the magistrates were required to cause inquiry to o* Vnade at the residence of such prisoner, or in any place frequented by him, in order to ascertain parti culars as to the value of such property. which was ,0 be return e d t o th e c l er k o f th e p eace , a n d in c l u d e d i n his return to the Treasury. He (the Duke of Richmond) contended that such a requisition was illegal; a constable Z it ering a place to make such inquiry would be liable 34 a n , action for trespass. How was he to know . t4t 'whom the property belonged ? He had no right • look o'er partnership accounts ; and if such • . Tunes were made, he (the Duke of Rich lid) as a visiting magistrate, should feel it his duty inf co °rln every prisoner that, up to the moment of his nvietio.a, he had a perfect right to assign over his pro tt,Y, 'pt .- dispose of it in any way he might think proper. or "Qcted the i lovernment would withdraw this letter, by kt'all events, amend it. The Noble Duke concluded movii !1g for the production of the letter. ,o+:rd WHARSCLIFFE had no objection to the pro. It u tt - ' t ' A nn of" the -letter. The Noble Duke bad correctly that, by the common law of the land, the goods of icted prisoners were forfeited to the Crown; and, A r • few years ago, a regular return of such goods was tQ e• Some very strong instances have arisen in which 41roperty o f p r is o ners had fallen into other persons' Zia, and had been retained by those persons.. One ' l . a t Prighton, when forty sovereigns were taken Ta ta , ,4 prisoner, and not given up. A still stronger su m ,"ad occurred in Westmoreland, when no less a aft;''''alt 2,0001. was kept back, and was only recovered hi s the lapse of a considerable time. He agreed .with a ien( yol . de Friend, that in particular cases the recom liat b at , tons contained in the clause of the letter could • acted upon. The object of this recommendation that on every apprehension the officer should 4 t „,,, e ,°Tupelled to mark on the back of the talent the amount of money found upon the •t • n b e r• If this recommendation were adopted, hal i rtight it would be attended with good In tt ,: B : and he thought it would be well for the maga saetiti 4 3 attend to the suggestion. It was also recpm ettsultr that, wh en the constable took the prisoner into a ss t Y , he should take an account of the property pos " hlthe p r i soner ; b u t by this it was by no means • that he should inquire into the particulars of t o a profits ofpartners. 'teen a EROUGHAM was very glad this subject had )13. la s e under the consideration of their Lordships. *re ) : lanse of the letter, to which more particular re it) ' 3 had been made, it was recommended that the ato rl o s u t '„ b ‘ le .should be empowered to inquire into the bJ "of property belonging, or supposed to belong, itall prisoner. It was impossible to defend the clause, u . ,ch as it empowered an o ffi cer to commit trespass. t een -r u. CAMPBELL regretted that this letter had not 811 boajtted to his Noble and Learned Friend the , * ea C hancellor, or to the Attorney-General, before it the i su ed• He thought it was the duty of the Lords of Irkai dit r easury to take the highest legal opinion as to its "reei set i'• He was of opinion that the sooner the law was the bett er . vtool h l ~P_ohe of RICHMOND would sugg est th a t it eam it; !''e desirable to have a letter written to other tho u ,„; . ?s 1 16 t to act on that law, which the Noble Lord "t had been better omitted. He would withdraw 11 1 114 9tion, but he should like to have an intimation on e pact of the Government that care should be taken other counties informed of the opinions which Government entertained. After a few words from Lord WHAIINCLIFFE and the Duke of RICHMOND, we understood the motion was Withdrawn. - • THE AFFAIRS OF SPAIN. The Ettrl of CLARENDON gave notice that he s k some questions of the Noble Njould, on F r id ay next. a rentrd, th e S ecretary for Foreign Affairs, respecting rienspsepcatiinng, and s which had recently taken ")a 'me country. Th e ir, present relations with th at CHINESE TREATY. he wished to put The Earl of CLARENDON said It enestion to the Noble Lord, t nts an explanation Affairs, respecting one or two the S . l-cretary for Foreign : 4 1) :: 'Which, he thought necessa p ry el to mlant document complete. As they were about to render that im iii, on a new field of commerce, as tel7tY would depend upon_ . tr strict t which adherence it w was e o I n t t e i h s e e t l els of the treaty on their part—it —ltt 110 mis un derstanding should exist, i a t n w d e th e e e C ee hl ti nese rgate4:::::ntnth would expect a rigid adhe T re h n e e ir e L ta or a d ll sh t i h p e s utents which they entered i . nto. h to , t let the same favou thr one 1 great satisfac r ti w on o, i d n d t b e e speechaf forded h f r o. to m own the th e . liir,nerce of other nations with th C e hi t n re a a w ty h t ie o h in tz e ir ateto. -4 1 hut there was nothing in tetel b , He sup ' countries that this was the Cas t e. IX , Se c i th • 1 , di et thus was an 'omission, bu 4111,ortance that no doubt should re it st w o e n e* of . a countylrttNattin Which reflected so much h h ene n fi o t u s r of on wh t i h oh is ,Y, and which first established the principle e of free Ni.t:olaPetition in this new market, the CLl'lld probably be extended to other w co a u s nt ow rie in s g bi o . It ltst n r es e• This wisdom and liberality to the very ,„„ I,lctions of her Majesty's Government 'tv;rteried individual by whom th t o o se th ne e got r i e a gu tio la ns . tio )is earried on. With regard a peared they t '' h %Vended to the treaty, to the 4 1tt c ,.. 1° been framed with a very careful re Aar t 'qa of China, and with a view to prey r en p t ar r t au , hy d w on h t i li eh e tlieirc!ftbe Chinese, and qUarrels on their part, interrupted. But course might hereafter be ~N ( led, must 11 l'''gulations mus be considered, r. he binding of apart of the treaty,. equally -i ni the s ame same force with the treat at y, ittui .f.4° second article they were %at f° second an integral part of it, but. Ivereteedealito' talichli? luisunderstanding should exist in it a w m ae at d t e e e r ire' of b s l o e kiti,sti.olportance. - He wished to kuow of wh t e h t e he t r re h at e y r tiiik, is re presentatives in China . had authority to tetvree those regulations Vitr,4ll, ;the two countries. regulations as s a om p e or o t f lo t rl iose 1114ih.4,°' w 4 4 e r k y no s , t 4 r n ing in ent tchhiasractcouerAr of their h t ee he a y ns o e ug o h n t Atteeill, observance depended the continu ance hethird regulation, irttik,ettl., intercourse with China. siti t4 leg her Majesty's ships, provides T for the inipn tn evo°/, various fines, some h confiscation of Pie *II ,ilandred dollars, together wt . specified, of them amounting !'at ;, ° `e cargo for certain offences' therein Ilitt stated ' 1 ob part vv h whom these the r fi e n g e u s la l t v io e n re s . t d o id 1 ' 11 ' 44 1 144)11 the 13th was the most important \tithe:ll'4y ,blithe scarcely thought that it wasse p b: t 3 r part he expressedoefv find i t e h d e . et to the pltti4humeli-nt clearness. It said that, with respect baolit tilp , t of English MIN to ,pr the Queen of criminals, Xaineci twh..o..enla9bc:eg'ilegernuedi 14 a, I:" 'Provide for that abject. n !lA N 4-, his Noble Friend whether • any: code of, lt. 1.,,,,',,,ad been drawn up, and . if s xecution ? It 14-•,-'" he ready to be put t hOtll t i . gi be IN htd ;' Odehiegahil; to imp p o u r t tan th t e power would be. ttstri,,,,aiBo to ask whether that thatlaw l n in th e f e ore C e rs H ul e s tier - ,7 4 to the Consul General or the h aoufthotrhie `-'onh 1 Rong,liong ? or whether t f tt ou t rt Z.vy s a i t ii t t h o e fi eir e eet ports upo w n would o b wil e toem a p u o th e w ee o e r r l e t d y? should be katioe:ll,tb regulation provided that cruiser for the rotection carry F'lf tht °ff each of the five ports ~alatib„(4lalds. Be thought that a most would be glad ~,- 1 ,und he was sure that the. country erma tv" learn that it was intended to imp p ortant re the;thef:7:jseeitt:fvta:e all:l.desirable for the phreeserPatio-nn t he sub .hetween the two gala na ti t o io n n , s.—(Hear, hear.) 0 I t \vas - r tho intended that the Consul h s e s e aul ge d d g t i e ve a l ‘ u v r t h it e l f the d, c'onuct of the merchants, or for the PaYulen LiBThellatrltollf annese Government ? , ir . Dow er , -,-IsERDEEN was happy .to h his Nob i t4 , l to give the explanations which . b bPo ll 1 re to The regulations having been agreed 'tte,, - Y trle Chines e Co •si Acisve-rgr Must be considermed as part of have it in Cad r,ef frantint, . ---, ‘;kellt‘-:°nhnociuild of a n ode the Governor Oak t i s , of long-Kong, was given to empowered to carry into t!it tt it °n• He entirely agreed with his Noble Friend, i o t f . the t‘lt'tted lf/frilish cruiser should be permanently sq . ).- ) "t. to each of those ports.--(Hear, hear.) _ln , 441,13 15th regulation, he could answer that the 'tliri t would run no risk whatever. They were tl f te I L for the dues, because the functions of , ould 1 , ug Merchants were abolished ; but they 41 tk gaVe he. b. , • and thileeaedtrehSlartyli. eTnhrye C.ll l ir p ou - S. IPS papers delivered to them, and left Itie "ession, until the captains showed that the b....„, Itiptli attutporities NVere satisfied. Although ther . e was °II resPeeting other European nations in the SEWS VENDTG. • e value. of last week once mote rh to Ifot .ates, how- Three per were not t the close. hared the Three per have been and Glow h of Eng" ngham, 1; discount cifths, 7i ; 6.1 ; NOT° igton, 1,7 i ; and, New; rtes of the are steady:, the week fair busi" ted. The ition, A ll 4 0 Meier prptia.i. o ties welt ;rn, 112 i ; Midisna nith Eae iounced is ay compw s respects Lion in the 2iSSedt nionop?ll for all the siness hat• rm at 97 -, ht 15,00 014 from 678- idia Stock lirea-and riatiorr to- amount d sh Active s 32 and' remaiod% knexed list 'e have s ed.-lA°' minglyou , 50i • Shef" itto, Scrip' ..4277/ P. ... 8 4 r° d. 6 9 r r -69P ° 69 1° L. ... 27e. ent. •-•• 57 AY.Y 3• 0 O CI ▪ 0 • 47 , • 39k ....1184 b 2 .... '23 .... 23 • •••• Zht •••••• eta 6s. .:73 - 77 -1) 31.7 5 .0 0 P .0 4 . 0 4 lli r j, Niel" take n all mo v ed Mini 46 4 t wet ting ice. Die terboll' Bis h°ll of 'We."' [ a y a t to lad inter- ial-ofl~~' Colo~'~- ,no ar a ble Tbe mi .. .., t he e ) 0 of tb we . ol s ar i of 1 p v, eb Coti 0 01 'Le 103113' • entitled ,st eS Mr. iv , h ° So°i (ring 0 .beg° 4) off er 11 r 9 , i 3, 9°' - 3hr sce : oe THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY MORNING, FEBRUARY 7, 1844. treaty, yet there - had been since a supplementary treaty, in which he believed it was provided for. Sir Henry Pottinger had done all his work well ; but he was not a d;plomatist, and he had been in some respects remiss and unsystematic. He had written to him (Lori Aberdeen) to say that the supplementary treaty had -been signed ; but he had not sent it, or a copy of it. But he could not doubt that it included some provision on the subje,q, because Sir Henry Pot tinger had been before aware of the intention of the Goverment. In a communication dated the November 4, he (Lord A.) said that all the Government wished for was a fair and unobstructed trade, and that we and silk and flax factories, at work, empty, and together, in each county of the 'United Kingdom. COMMERCIAL TREATIES. Mr. RICARDO gave notice of his intention of bringing forward a motion relative to the commercia] treaties between this and other countries. IMPORT DUTIES—ISLE OF MAN. Dr. BOWRING said he had a question to put to the Right Hon. the President of the Board of Trade, in re ference to the import duties payable in the Isle of Man. He wished to ascertain whether the Right Hon. Gentle man intended to abolish the 21 per cent. import duty on British manufactures payable in the Isle of Man; and whether he intended to supersede or modify the license system in that island, of which so many complaints were made. desired - no advantages which should not be en joyed by the subjects of other Governments.—(Hear.) With that knowledge in his possession at so early a period, it was exceedingly probable that there might be an amide to that effect in the supplementary treaty. As soon as that supplementary treaty arrived, it would be laid before the House, and he trusted that it would be found to be as satisfactory to their Lordships and the public as the original treaty had been.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. GLADSTONE said, in answer to the Hon. Gen tleman, he could state that they had proceeded so far m the examination ot this subject, as to enable him to say that in the course of the present session, he hoped to be able to introduce a Bill which would certainly abolish the 21 per cent. ditty, payable on British manufactures,' and which would also have the effect of very materially re stricting the licensing system, and exempting from its operation many important commodities, as well as im proving in . other respects the commercial arrangements of the island. On the motion of Mr. CHARLES WOOD and Mr. VERNON SMITH, several unopposed returns were ordered. _ _ _ in the power of the Executive to institute a sui and give the damages, by way of compensation, to the party injured. The regulations regarding children were not at present the same in silk mills as in cotton and other factories, and he now proposed to bring silk mills under precisely the same regulations in respect to children as other factories. He.had mentioned the principal provisions in the Bill, with the exception only of that portion of the Bill of last session to which attention had been more especially directed. He did not mean to interfere with that por tion of the Bill which prescribes the rules regarding education.(Hear.) A child from eight to thirteen years old he proposed should not be employed continu ously for more than six hours and a half, and that the other portion of the day' should be devoted to education. The Government last year proposed to do something with re spect to the quality of the education given to the chil dren in factories. The enactments throughout the existing law of factory education were, he was afraid, almost illusory, for persons had been employed that were little qualified, indeed, even for du ties so humble as those entrusted to them. Even the stoker of the fninace was occasionally to be found acting the part of school master ; an d t h ere w as an undeniable want of every proper facility and appa ratus in the shape of books and other requisites. In fact, the system had been one not of education, but of mere confinement, leaving the children without any knowledge or instruction whatever. He (Sir James Graham) was, however, bound to state, that these evils were giving way, under the force of public opinion, to a better state of things, and he indulged the hope that there were now many mill-owners who were sincerely anxious to supply the means of instruction to those employed by them. The experience - of last year, however, had determined him not to interfere with 'the quality of the instruction now offered.—(Hear, hear.) It had been the hope of the Government that a measure providing scriptural teaching, superintended by the vi gilant inspection of officers appointed by the. Privy Council on Education, would meet with general con currence. lie confessed that that hope, in his mind at least, had vanished. Reliance must now be placed, and it was not a vain reliance, after what they had lately seen, but he confessed that with him it was a confident hope—reliance must be placed on the honest rivalry which had arisen between the Church and the Dissenters, by whom he trusted great efforts would be made to dif fuse amidst the immense masses of the population sound general knowledge in connexion with scriptural instruc tion. He was quite satisfied that if good schools were established in the manufacturing districts the people would have sufficient discrimination to prefer them to' bad schools. If the Legislature provided that the children should have sufficient leisure for instruction, he was confi dent that they would be instructed, and instructed in a manner infinitely superior to anything that had yet been witnessed. At all events he was not prepared at pre sent, either directly or indirectly, to interfere with the quality of the instruction to be afforded ; all that be asked the House to do was, to allow leisure to the chil dren, which would secure for them, without being over strained by labour, an opportunity of attending the school for at least three hours every day, with the ex ception of Saturday, which was a half holiday. He would express an earnest hope that the effect of the dif fusion of knowledge, based upon sound principles of in struction and upon religious truth, would have the effect of averting that which, if left unchecked, would be a source of the greatest and most serious national injury —the evil of a dense population living without know ledge, without instruction, and without religion. The Right Hon. Baronet then moved for leave to introduce a Bill to amend the Factory Act. Mr. HUME said he was surprised that the Govern ment should continue to introduce measures like that which had just been announced. If they interfered with any class in this manner they should interfere with all. They should not confine themselves to the em ployment of one class at particular times, but they should extend the measure to every branch of manu factures. It would appear as though experience were lost upon those who made these attempts at legislation. Here were parents, children, and manufacturers all in terested in the subject of employment as one affecting the means of subsistence, and yet the Government were attempting to throw every difficulty in the way of its fair exercise. It would be much better if the Govern ment would take into consideration the cause of that anxiety to which reference had been made. It was the want of employment. What was it which pre vented employment ? Bad legislation. Why not remove that instead of attempting to bolster up evils by this patchwork legislation ? All experience showed that measures of this kind could not succeed, and be was anxious that the Government should look to causes' and not attempt to correct the results of bad legislation. They ought not to restrict the employment of children in one manufactory, and leave it unrestricted in another. Education should be made a national object, and they should require that every child should be educated. He greatly deprecated the requiring certificates, considering it extremely objectionable. It was to be, provided, too, that in all instances of accident, loss of limb, or injury, an action at law might lie against the proprietor of the factory. Why should not railway companies and other bodies be subjected to the same process? He thought that this part of the measure required to be well con sidered. If there ever was a demand upon the Govern ment, it was that they should provide an efficient mea sure of general education, leaving religion to the different religious sects. But the present measure was one to which he entertained the strongest objection. Mr. STUART WORTLEY said he believed there could be no greater evil than the absorp tion of the bulk of the *male population in factory employments. He deprecated the system of employing persons in factories for so long a period as that contemplated by the Bill. His Right Hon. Friend had referred to the authority upon which he founded the measure he was now about to bring in, and said that it was derived from the Inspectors of Factories, but he (Mr. Wortley) wished that his Right Hon. Friend had paid more attention to some suggestions which had been made by those gentlemen. Mr. Saunders, in his last Report, had stated, in language than which nothing could be stronger, that the labour of persons of the age contemplated in the present Bill should in no instance be allowed to exceed eleven hours during the day. Mr. Horner expressed a similar opinion also. He thought with those exceptions that the measure was likely to effect much good, and to improve the operation of the present Act. Mr. HINDLEY felt glad that this Bill had been in troduced, because he thought it would be an improve ment upon the former Act. He perfectly concurred with the Hon. Member who had just sat down, that an alte ration should be made in the number of hours during which it was proposed to require the young persons to labour, and that this subject required the most serious consideration of the House. He should wish the lion. Member for Montrose, who took a very abstract view of this question, to consider the facts of the matter. He Hindley) considered t h at while the G overnmen t allowed certain privileges to the manufacturers, they also should 'retain the right to themselves of inter fering when a system was adopted which was likely to produce great physical and moral evils. They heard much of their wealth and of their great pro duction; but if that vast amount of production was tak ing place at the sacrifice .of the health. morals, and in telligence of the people, it might be purchase& like gold, too dearly. They had been told that their interference in this subject would endanger their foreign commerce. This he disproved by showing that, under the present Act, the manufacture of cotton had increased 130 per cent. Public opinion was in favour of the reduction of the amount of human labour ; he alluded to the exer tions made by the drapers' assistants, and the persons employed in other occupations, to procure a curtailment of the. hours of labour. The drapers of Manchester had ceased to employ their assistants on Saturday after noons. There was a general impression that human la bour had been too much employed in this country; that it had been tasked till human strength sank beneath it He contended that, with respect to the cotton trade, a shortening of the hours of labour would be attend ed with advantage in rendering the amount of labour more proliortionate to the limited supply of cotton they had this year received from America. He urged on the Government the propriety , of taking up this question in a right and determined spirit. It was not for him, as their political opponent (as he generally was). to tell them what to do in order to briug the people of England around them in sup port of their exertions. They had the means of doing so, by showing a determined spirit in support of the in terests of the labouring classes. Lord ASHLEY said the House was well aware how inconvenient it was to discuss the principle of a Bill in its earliest stage.—(Hear, hear.) He therefore would not attempt to occupy their attention at that moment, but he could not fee satisfied without rising to express his gratitude to the Government for the advance they had made.—(Hear, hear.) He would not advance his own views and sentiments then, but simply repeat his thanks to Ministers for the advance now made.— (Cheers.)—Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. POOR-RATES IN IRELAND. Major MACNAMARA, on behalf of Mr. F. French, moved for a return of dates on which, and the places where, the military or police have been employed in enforcing the collection of poor -rates in Ireland, between the Ist day of January, 1643, and the Ist day of January, 1844 ; specifying the number of men em ployed, and the amount collected, on each occasion; and also a return of the date and amount of each rate made in the different poor-law unions in Ireland, under the provisions of the Act 1 and 2 Vic. c. 56, for the more effectual relief of the destitute poor in that country; specifying the amount of each rate remaining uncollected on the Ist day of January, 1844. SELECT COMMITTEE ON_RAILWAYS, in point of fact, where the poor railway traveller used to pay threepence. he now paid sixpence, and where sixpence, a shilling. To return, however, to the pro posed Committee. Amongst the names now pro posed by the Government, he could count not less than five who were directors in railways, and the Right Hon. Gentleman himself (Mr. Gladstone), who would, of course be the Chairman of the Committee, though not a director, frankly admitted that he was a considerable railway shareholder. He (Mr. Wallace) in the course he now proposed t o; dopt, would proceed in the f a i re st possible way, for he should object at once to the first name, that of the Right Hon. Gentleman, being allowed to remain on the list. He meant no personal disrespect to that Right Hon. Gentleman; far from it, but he frankly owned he looked w ith great susp i c i on at t h e ent i re com position of the proposed Committee. He had no other name to propose, so little did he care who were upon it ; his only object being that the Committee should be so constituted as to be entitled to the confidence of the public. He moved that the first name be omitted. Mr. GLADSTONE would only say ono word upon the subject. If he had found that the rule in forming these committees was to keep out the names of parties who might be supposed to be interested, he need not tell the Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Greenock, that he should have been very glad to have acted upon it, and so evaded the duties which must necessarily have devolved upon himself, as Chairman of this Committee. But he found, on former occasions, that parties directly inter ested in railways did not, under similar circumstances, feel justified in shrinking from the performance of those duties on the ground of personal interests. It was a great mistake to suppose that any uniform feeling per vaded the parties interested in the several railways already formed, and those which were contemplated. In point of fact, the interests of parties connected with the old railways were distinctly different from those who were now, or who might be hereafter, connected with the new lines. Again, on those railways which were called high 7 fare lines, the interests were anything but identical with those which were known as low-fare lines. If the House, on the present occasion, chose to adopt a new principle, he could have no personal objection to it what ever. He only wished it to be understood that, in the present instance, he had acted according to the princi ples which had been heretofore laid down." Mr. LABOUCHERE said that undoubtedly, in ap pointing a Committee for any interest, mercantile or commercial, it was usual to put a certain number of persons on it expressly interested in the sub ject • and he did not see why the House should depart from the rule in this instance. Certainly, therefore, if the Hon. Member for Greenock persisted in his amendment, he should vote against him, as, from the official situation which was held by the Right Hon. the President of the Board of Trade, not withstanding the circumstances which had been named, he thought it most important that his services should be retained. It was, however, quite another question whe ther the railway interest did not too greatly preponderate in the Committee now nominated.—(Cheers.) In look ing over the names, it certainly was his (Mr. Labou chere's) impression that the railway interest was repre sented in it to a degree which might deprive the' Committee of that weight in public opinion which it was desirable every Committee of that House should possess. —(Loud cheers.) That principle, however, was a totally different one to the urgent and inconvenient rule which the Hon. Member for Greenock desired to have intro duced, and, therefore, he must vote against the amend ment, and for the retention of the name of the Right Hon the President of the Board of Trade.—(Hear.) Mr. HUME said the principle was as suited l;y his Hon. Friend the Member for Greenock, however diffe rent the practice might have been of late years. He could speak from his own experience'on this subject, for he had himself challenged the votes of Mr. Pascoe Gren fell and others, as shareholders in the St. Katharine's Docks, when the Bill authorising their erection was be fore the House. The Bill was brought up ; it was op posed ; and on a division being called, and before it took place, he challenged the names referred to as perions who, being interested, ought not to be allowed to vote. On con sideration these votes were struck out.—(Hear, hear.) The House, therefore, had acted on a former occasion on the principle laid down by his Hon. Friend, the Mem ber for Greenock, and what had been advanced by the Right Hon. Member for Taunton, (Mr. Labouchere), was not wholly correct. For his own part, he (Mr. Hume) considered it was too much the practice to put interested parties on the Committees of that House. A Committee was appointed to ascertain facts, and to get at the real merits and the truth of the case. It was desirable to have parties upon it who were both for and against the object in view. A Committee so con stituted would always give them the best information, and upon that the House would always decide safely what course to pursue. He had always been of.opinion, that no individual whatever should be allowed to sit on a Committee who had any personal interest in it what ever. He had tried often to carry that principle out. He repeated, that his Hon. Friend, the Member for Greenock, was right in his principle, though, as to modern instances, not in his practice, and he could not sit down without expressing his surprise at, and disap proval of, the great number of railway directors no minated on the Committee just submitted to the House. Lord HOWICK contended, that the case of the St. Katherine's Docks did not apply in the present instance. There the parties challenged were directly interested in the Bill before the House. Here a Committee was wanted merely to judge what general regulations were desirable in the management of railways. The conse quence of acting on the principle laid down by the Hon. Member for Greenock, would be to drive from the Com mittee all the information and experience which Mem bers of that House, being railway directors and proprie tors, could bring to bear upon the subject. But he (Lord Howick) could not help thinking that as the Committee was now constituted, the railway interest was too strongly represented—(Cheers)—and that gen tlemen, holding high situations in these great under takings were not the most proper instruments to effect the object that House was supposed to have in view.--• (Loud cheers.) Why, these were probably the very ' men they might want for witnesses.—(Hear, hear.) It was bad to have one person as a witness, and the same, person afterwards to draw conclusions.—(Hear, hear.)' He hoped the names of the directors would be withdrawn. Mr. ROEBUCK said the Government could not do otherwise than observe that the feeling of the House was strongly opposed to the Committee as now proposed. In his opinion every one of the names upon this Com mittee had been unduly chosen.—(Hear, hear.) Amongst a great number of other names upon it he found that of Mr. Russell, who was Chairman of the Directors of the Great Western Railway. This he thought most un warrantable, because the Committee would have to enter into negotiations with several of the railway companies. Now he would ask who were the persons to decide upon the manner in which those negotiations were to be car ried on ? The Hon. Member to whom he had just al luded was one of those who was most deeply interested in the matter, and in his capacity of chairman was a person who would be very likely to come before the Committee as a witness, and also would be one most in-, terested in the negotiations. He could go through all that Committee, and point out scarcely one name un connected with either the Government or some railroad, while there was not one representative of any of those large towns to which there was a continual influx of travellers. He should conclude by entreating that some more fitting Members should be selected for this Com mittee, who would be likely to attend more to general than individual interests. Lord J. RUSSELL did not entirely agree with the Hon. and Learned Member for Bath in saying that no director of a railway_ should be allo w ed to b e pl ace d on the Committ ee . He thought that to a certain degree the fact of having the practical remarks of those gentle men would be likely to have a beneficial result. With respect to the Noble Lord the Member for Totnes, he should say that he had been one of 'the members of the Committee, and at that time he had no connexion with any railway. He (Lord John Russell) thought that a matter for consideration, whether, if the directors of on e railway wer e upon the Committee, those persons con nected with other lines of railroad, who did not possess the same privilege, might have reason to complain? Mr. GLADSTONE thought it most desirable that some railway directors should be placed upon the Com mittee. He differed from the Noble Lord that persons who were shareholders were more fit to be on the Com mittee than those who were directors, for many of the shareholders were more interested in the matter than the directors. There was Mr. Glynn, who was so ex tensive a holder of shares as to be qualified to act as a director. If the Committee wanted to have the informa tion of experienced and practical men, who were con versant with the subject under investigation, he thought they could not do better than to have a fair proportion of railway directors. At the same time, while he ap proved of having a fair proportion of directors upon the Committee, he should state that he did not con sider the question a new one. Previous to forming the Committee, the first thing he did was to procure a list of the names which were upon the former Committee of 1840, and he raw there the names of many gentlemen connected with railways, amongst whom were the Hon. Member for Sunderland, who declined to act upon this Committee, although he was a person of great experience in those matters. There was also the Hon. Baronet the Member for Leicester, and the Honourable Member for Clitheroe, who was a Director of the South Eastern Railway, which was different from all the others, being what is termed a low-fare railway, and it was on account of the intimate acquaintance which that Hon. Gentle man had with railway matters that he selected him to be one of the Committee. He admitted that the subject was one of great difficulty. According to the rules of the House a Committee could not consist of more than fifteen Members. Since coming into the House he had received many communications from gentlemen con nected with various railway schemes in different parts of the country, complaining that their interests were not adequately represented in the Committee. If it should be the pleasure of the House to depart from the rule li miting the number of a Committee, although the prece dent might be objectionable, still it would tend to re • move many of these difficulties; but if it was determined to adhere to the number of fifteen, he did not see how theycould appoint Members representing all these diffe rent interests on the Committee. He did not himself consider it a matter of importance that three or four directors of railway companies were included among the members of the Com mittee. The labours of the Committee were merely preliminary, and if it should appear that any recom mendation of the Committee had been carried solely by the votes of the railway directors it would lose a, great deal of the weight which would be otherwise attached to it.—(Hear, hear.) There were many other gentlemen whom he should have been anxious to have seen on that Committee had it been practicable. There was the Hon. Member for Kendal, who had on a former occasion taken a very active part in the revision of the Standing Orders relating to the introduction of Railway Bills ; and there was the Hon. Member for Inverness, who had also taken a great interest in the subject. He should have been rejoiced to have seen both those Hon. Gentle- Mr. W. GLADSTONE moved, that the Select Com mittee on Railways should consist of the following gen tlemen :—Mr. William Gladstone, Mr. Labouchere, Lord Seymour, Mr. Wilson Patten, Viscount Sandon, Mr, Gishorne, Lord Granville Somerset, Sir John East hope; Mr. Hamilton, Mr. Russell, Mr. Patrick Maxwell Stewart, Mr. Green, Mr. Maclean, Mr. Thornely, and Mr. Cardwell. _ _ Mr. WALLACE said, he should now propose the amendment of which he had given notice, and which was to the effect that no person should be on the Com mittee who had a direct interest in any railway. In doing this, he believed he was bringing under the con- sideration of the House, no novel principle, but one which had obtained for a very considerable time— namely, that no Honourable Member would allow his name to remain on a Committee who had a direct pecu niary interest in the matter on which that Committee had to sit. Before he went further, he wished to state that what he had advanced last evening in reference to a railway in his own immediate locality was strictly and substantially correct, and that the concession made by the Government, on the subject of the railway tax, instead of being used, as it ought to have been, to diminish the fares of the third-class carriages, had been used by the directors to enhance their own dividends. Instead of re d uc i ng fares, they increased profits, so that ... men on the Committee. The Hon. and Learned Mem- IHe felt that n o i n di v id ua l M em b er oug h t to un d erta k e ber for Bath supposed th a t h e was wedded to his own [ or attempt to proceed in a course with regard to the opinion on matters of detail. He could assure the lion. ! supplies, which would not be supported by public and Learned Gentleman that he was perfectly sensible of . op:nion out of doors, or that would not be supported by the difficulties which he should experience in adjusting 1 a sufficient number of Members in the House.—(Hear, these details, and that he should be glad of any sug- I hear.) He was not the man to undertake this. He gestion as to the best method of proceeding. With re- I wished to bring his proposition fairly before the House gard to the specific proposition before the House, if i and the public, and it would then be for the advocates they postponed the question then they would be com- of popular rights and the public to take any course. pelled to deal with these difficulties at some future day, they might think best. Such a proceeding as that of and considering the number of applications for Railway raising the yiestion of grievances on the motion of sup- Bills that would probably be made in the course of the plies, ought to be supported by public opinion, or else it session, he thought it important that they should pro- I cou ld h ave no weight, nor could it ever be f any use. ceed with the inquiry at the earliest possible period. He did not contemplate a system of factious adjourn- Mr. HAW ES gave the Right Hon. Gentleman full meats, but his object was, if possible, to et a credit for his anxiety to do justice to this very impor- majority with him. Although he might •on this taut subject, but he had not answered the objection made occasion be defeated by the majority, yet he would never by the Noble Lord, that the railway interest was too despair of ultimately obtaining a majority with hi m , strongly represented. The Committee would have to He did not charge the present Government in particular consider not only the measures necessary to be adopted with inattention, fie. other Governments had been for all future railways, but also what alterations the equally culpable, and he knew that the late Government protection of the public might require to' be made in the was as much to blame as the present one. lie was regulations of existing railways, so as to protect the aware that be should be opposed in his motion by public against the monopoly which might be created by perhaPs the principal supporters of the late Government, a concentration of interests. lie objected to increasing and he therefore wished it to be distinctly understood I the number of M em b ers b e y on d fif teen, and he suggested that he made no accusation against the present Govern the propriety of suspending the appointment of the I ment. He wished to impress on the House the necessity Committee. There was a great preponderance of rail- of inquiry. He said that if the Government refused to way interests among its members, and he would suggest grant • that inquiry, it then became the duty to the Right Hon. Gentleman the propriety of substitut- of that House, as a body, to refuse the ing some other names for those of gentlemen connected supplies until such inquiry were obtained. This was a with railways.—(Cheers.) H e s h ou ld w i sh to see his constitutional principle which he was desirous of carry- Hon. Friend the Member for Kendal on that Committee. ing out.--(Hear, hear.) He wished the House to reflect His lion. and Learned Friend the Member for Bath had upon the situation in which it was placed with the coun given notice of emotion on the subject ofrailwa,ys that pre- try. It stood, as it were, as a criminal at the bar, the supposed some attention to the subject. He should like charges against it being its own votes.—(Hear, hear.) to see the Hon. and Learned Gentleman appointed to He did not wish to trespass further on the attention of the Committee. He trusted that the appointment of the the House, but he trusted that it would be coneeded Committee would be postponed after the objections which that he had brought his motion forward temperately, had been made that night. He trusted the House would be for he .had endeavoured to avoid everything w i s ;ch spared the pain of dividing upon the n ames o f i n di v id ua l mightfsr a momentgive offence to any one.—(Hear.) TL 0 gentlemen ; but he also hoped that for some of those Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving—" That whereas, names the Right Hon. Gentlemen would substitute those complaints have been made to this House on various oc of Members unconnected with railway interests. casions, by petition, to the effect that the people are Mr. P. M. STEWART hoped the House would feel no suffering under unjust and partial legislation, and under delicacy in disposing of his name. It had been put in the effects of monopolies of various kinds, political without any consultation with himself, and the first and ecclesiastical, created and kept in existence for the knowledge he had had of his appointment had been ob- benefit of favoured classes ; that by the taxes imposed tamed from reading the votes of the morning. He felt on food, for the support of one of these monopolies, the grateful for the honour which had been conferred on supply is restricted and the price raised, whilst at the him, but he was not at all ambitions of serving on the same time the demand for labour is diminished and Committee. It would be ungrateful in him to decline to wages reduced, and the profits of manufacturing and serve, and he would at once state that he was an ho- commercial industry deeply injured ; that the burthen norary director of the Greenock R a ilw a y, a l t h oug h h e of general taxation has been increased to an intolerable never interfered in its management, nor was he a great extent, by an extravagant expenditure in every depart holder of railway stock. If the construction of the ment of the State, and that this taxation is so imposed Committee rendered it at all liable to suspicion, he would as to press most oppressively mid heavily on the indus recommend the Right Hon. Gentleman to postpone the trial portion of the community ; that laws have appointment of it. The Right Hon. Gentleman, how- been pas•ed injurious to the rights of the ever, was the best judge as to fhe proper course of pro- people, and arbitrary proceedings of Government ceeding to be adopted. He had been put on the Com- have taken place dangerous to public liberty ; inittee without his consent, an d h e was n o t offended in that in order to sustain this system an unconstitutional consequence ; neither should he take offence if he were amount of standing army is kept up for the home ser put off without his consent. vice, and the ancient constitutional constable superseded Mr. WARBURTON thought it right to state, as allu- by the 'hired police ; all which would be wholly unne sion had been made to him, that there were reasons why cessary if the grievances of the people were redressed, .he should not be appointed on the Committee. He had and just and impartial government established. It is no experience whatever as to the details of railway re- further complained, that these and other grievances art. gulation. He held a chief office in a society which re- produced by the bad constitution of the Commons' quired so much of his attention, that his punctual House ; that by the limitation of the suffrage, the long attendance at the Committee would be impossible ; and duration of Parliaments, and corruption and undue in- although, at pfesent, he was not a subscriber to any fluences in the election of representatives, this House, railway undertaking, yet he saw a notice of an applica- as at present constituted, does not truly represent, tion about to be made for a Railway Bill to which he and is not responsible to the people, and therefore had no doubt his constituents would expect that he does not legislate for their interests ; that, notwith should subscribe ; and, therefore, the objection which standing frequent respectful petitions presented to this had been made to railway proprietors would equally House, the complaints of the people have neither been apply to him. He complained that there was no one inquired into nor redressed ; that from these causes an on the Committee to represent the travelling public. alarming state of discontent prevails generally over the He did not know whether the Hon. Member for Wolver- United Kingdom : It is therefore the immediate duty of' hampton possessed any railway shares ; he no doubt this House to make inquiry into these complaints ; and would defend the interests of the public ; but he thought as this House. can have no right to vote supplies except there ought to be persons on the Committee who were as being the representatives of the people, it is impera neither directors nor shareholders. He hoped the tively necessary that the charges brought against its House would stick to the number of fifteen, for if once present constitution and competency in the petitions they infringed on that rule, they would never be able to which have been received and recorded among its Pro adhere to it afterwards. ceedings, should be inquired into, and, if found to be Mr. G. A. HAMILTON trusted that if the name of justly made, redressed, before this House shall proceed any gentleman were substitued for his on the Committee to the voting of supplies." it would be some gentleman connected with Ireland. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said his Hon. Friend having Sir JOHN EASTHOPE had no objection to have the stated so clearly his views on this question, he had lict name of some other gentleman substituted for that of hesitation in seconding the resolution. He confessed himself, if such were the desire of the House. that if it had involved the principle of a small minority, Mr. GLADSTONE would not object to postpone the factiously opposing the granting of the supplies against appointment of the Committee as so many gentleman a large majority, he would not have been prepared to had expressed their willingness to retire. have taken that course. The object of this motion was Sir G. GREY hoped that, in the reconstruction of simply:to inquire into the grievances of the people. The the Committeee, the Right Hon. Gentlemen would take first important point to establish was the existence of care that every part of the country should be adequately those grievances. His Hon. Friend had stated generallsr represented. what he considered to be those grievances, as they had Mr. WALLACE had not made a personal objection been.described in petitions which had been laid on the table to any one, and he trusted that no misunderstanding of that House. His Hon. Friend had not in his motion would exist on the subject. gone any thing approaching so far as examples which The motion was then withdrawn. might be found on the Journals of that House, but espe ' MERCHANT SEAMEN'S FUND. cially in the opinion expressed by the Noble. Lord the On the motion of Mr. GLADSTONE, the following M em b er f or L on d on (L or d J . Russell) when he introduced Members were nominated as the Select Committee on into that House the Reform Bill. The Noble Lord the Merchant Seamen's Fund :—Mr. William Gladstone, on that occasion stated to the House the object he Sir Howard Douglas, Mr. Barclay, Mr. Lyall, Mr. had in view in proposing that Bill, in the following Hodgson Hinde, Mr. Aglionby, Mr. Rice, Sir John words :—." I propose that the people should send to this Hanmer, Captain Gladstone, Admiral Dundas, Mr. House their real representatives, to deliberate upon their Corry, Mr. Chapman, Mr. Ross, Mr. Hutt, and Mr. wants, to consult upon their interests, to consider their Philip Miles. grievances, and to attend to their desires." Now, nothing SUPPLY—REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES. wasexpressed in the resolution proposed by his (Mr.W.'s) On the SPEAKER being about to read the Order of the lion. Friend, that was not expressed in language much Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee of stronger, in his opinion by th e N o bl e L or d, w h en h e in , Supply, troduced the Reform Bill. He would ask any Hon. Mr. WALLACE said that he had some petitions to Member whether the Reform Bill had produced the re present. sult anticipated by the Noble Lord ? He believed that The SPEAKER informed the Hon. Gentleman that every honest man would answer in the negative. When he could not present them. that Bill was introduced, the entire people of this coun- Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD rose to bring for- try exhibited a willingness to risk even their lives and ward the motion of which he had given notice. He ad- property in defence of that measure, which they anti ' mitted it was an unusual motion, but the reason he cipated would secure to them those benefits which the brought it forward was, that there was not a fair repre- Noble Lord had described. Their anticipations had sentation of the people in that Hous e , and that their been attended with nothing but disappointment. Some grievances were not attended to by the House. They times three millions of the people presented a p e titi on , complained of the monopolies on corn, one of the prin.- in which they stated th a t th a t House did not represent cipal of which was the tax on food, by which the manu- them: They had many examples of proceedings in that facturing and commercial interests of the eounteysuffered. House which went farther than the motion of He would not at present enter on this subject. They his Hon. Friend. In the year 1642, when the Monarch complained of the colonial monopolies, of which the of that day attempted to raise taxes without principal was the sugar monopoly. They complained of the authority of the House of Commons, when he pro the banking monopolies, and the East India monopoly, ceeded to accomplish his object, the House of Commons and above all, they complained of the monopoly of the resisted the arbitrary attempt, and the first great and Church. This was a monopoly felt particularly in important step they took in' opposition to the tyrannical Ireland, and it was now being felt in Scotland. attempt was to give direction to the Lords of the Tres 'The people complained of an enormous burden sury to stop the supplies. This step not only put a stop of taxation caused by wars, which would not have been to the King's object, but ultimately led the Sovereign to undertaken if the people were truly represented. He the scaffold. Again, in the reign of William the Third. did not want, however, that the public credit should be. That Monarch, in ascending the throne, entered into a destroyed by not paying the interest of the debt incurred compact with the people, which compact was usually by those wars. The people complained of the manner in called " The Bill of Rights." As soon as he had as which the public money was expended, and the system tended the throne, he neglected his engagement, and of taxation. They complained of their rights being in- endeavoured, by all the means in his power, to avoid it. vaded, and of unjust laws being passed. They complained The House of Commons and the House of Lords had of the new poor-law, but the principle of this law he did then virtue enough to enforce that Monarch's compliance not intend to enter upon. One of the Acts invading the with his engagement ; and, in 1683, a Bill passed both rights of the people was the Arms Act. That Act could Houses of Parliament, by which Parliaments were made not have been carried if the people were truly repro- triennial. That Bill was rejected by the King. In the sented, and it appeared now that the branding of the next year the' Parliament repassed that Bill, and the arms would render it impracticable. But what he corn. Parliament, according to Burnet, told the King that plained of was, the arbitrariness of the Act. This, unless he gave his assent to that 8:11, that he would re amongst other things, produced the cry fur the repeal ceive no supplies, and no supplies were voted until that of the union. The people frequently asked for inquiry, Bill received the Royal assent. The first and most im but it was uniformly denied. There was an inquiry de- portant proposition in the resolution of his lion. Friend mended respecting the conduct of certain judges, but it was that that House did not represent the people. was refused. They asked for inquiry into the standing flow did the question stand with regard to the represen army. There were, he believed, 38,000 regu- tation of the people in that House ? Five millions out Jar troops, and 9,000 armed constabulary, in Ireland. of six millions of the people were without any voice at These would be entirely unnecessary if the all in the representation ; yet two-thirds of the taxation jast demands of the people were attended t o . were borne by the non-represented classes. The Right But what they principally complained of was the state Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Governthent, of the representation. Only one in seven had the fran- in introducing the income-tax, said he could not consent chise, and could that be considered a fair representation to increase the burdens on the lower classes, saying he of the people? Another reason why the people con- could bring conclusive proof to show that taxation had sidered that this House did not truly represent them, reached its limits.—(Hear, hear.) These were the opi was that it was returned by corrupt practices. - This nions of the Right Hon. Baronet. Judge Blackstone House received the petitions of the people, and had laid it down as his opinion that the people should ac them recorded, but while they did not contradict their quiesce in the judgment of the law because they had a grievances, they refused all inquiry. One of the peti- voice in the making of those laws through their repre tions presented to that House was signed by 3,500,000 sentatires. But what could be said for the five millions persons. In that petition they used the following strong who were without representation ; and yet what could language. " Your House, as at present constituted, has be done without them? Re would next turn to' the con. not been elected by, and acts irresponsive of, the people. stitution of that House itself. What could be more It only represents parties, and legislates for the benefit monstrous, more base, than the bribery so often proved of the few without any regard for the welfare or the in- before the Election Committees ? When Mr. Maddock; terests of the many." Thus, they challenged the House brought a charge against a Member of that .House, at to the proof of what they said, but they were disre- the time of Lord Castlereagh, that Noble Lord said garded. On the occasion when the Hon. Member for the sale of seats in that House was as notorious Finsbury moved that no person should sit on Election as the sun at noon-day. The Honourable Committees. who would not make a declaration that he Member then quoted several instances of bribery at had not used any undue means to procure his return, elections, and then alluded to the deficiency of voters. only 19 Members voted in favour of his motion, thus Seventy-one towns returned to that House 121 acknowledging the charges made against them, and Members, with a constituency less in number then the that they were not in a condition to deny those charges. West Riding of Yorkshire; 20 towns, with a consti- This House then stood in the position of an accused tuency of 2,923, returned the same number of Members party. 'lt permitted no inquiry, and it did ' not as 20 other towns, having a constituency of 153,940. deny the charges which were brought against it. Lord Chatham said that taxation without representation The inquiry that was demanded in the petition of the was unconstitutional. Locke and Lord Grey were of a Char-ists was refused,:the numbers being 287 against it similar opinion, opposed to these opinions were the facts, and 49 for it. The House having been in that position, that Harwich returned four Members to Parliament, he maintained that it was not in a fit condition to impose whilst the West Riding of Yorkshire and the great town taxes. The forms of the House allowed the people to of Manchester returned only the same number. The call for redress of grievances before any supplies were taxation had increased in an alarming proportion. IA granted. Those rules were framed for the purpose of 1836, the expenditure was 44,200,0001, in 1843, defending the liberty of the subject. It was true that 51,700,000/ s being 7,500,000/ more than the those rules ought not to be taken advantage of except taxation of 1836, and the difference was suffi under extraordinary circumstances, but he was there to cient to maintain every department of the United maintain that those extraordinary circumstances now States annually, and yet that great country had existed. It was not his object, as he had before stated, paid its debts to the last farthing.—(Hear, and laughter.) to force the House to commit itself to a particular grin- He spoke of the Government of the United States, and ciple of reform. His resolution merely required the not of the States themselves, but he believed they too, House to consider the demands of the people, and whe- would discharge their debts.—(lronical cries of " Hear, they there were faults in the system of representation or hear.) The people were subjected to a greater taxa. not. He was not going to abandon those principles tion now than in any one year during the last war. lle which he had declared, in his opinion, should be the took for his authority one of the most enlightened foundation of reform. But he did not wish to commit men of his day—who had written with as much ability the House, or any Honourable Gentleman who might as any man living, and proved himself to be well ac vote with him, to this particular principle. lie quainted with the position of this country—he meant wished the House to go into an inquiry, in order the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the to ascertain whether that principle was a right one. Home Department.—(Hear; hear, and a laugh.) Like It might be said that this motion of his would be a all prudent men, the Right Hon. Baronet made all his nonentity, unless it were carried further. If the House statements under the mark ,• and what did he state ? should affirm this resolution, he should then move an- In the year 1812, he said, the hmount of the other resolution, to the effect that the House should taxes was 61,200,0001., the price of gold 51. Is. per either appoint a Select Committee or resolve itself into ounce ; in 1813 the amount of the taxes was 73 ; 300,0 t 01) 7 1 1:, a Committee to inquire into the state of the representa- the price of gold 51. 6s. lid. per ounce. In the ss firs com. tion. It might, however, be said that this inquiry would stance there was a depreciation in the currency , cen ; in the last a long time, and that the supplies could' not be die- pared with the standard value, of 38} pe l t' L. pensed with for so long a time as that inquiry would second instance the depreciation s wtaandard, with gold at Re past. He did not wish to impede the granting the sup- duce the amount to the pre i se it nt would appear that the plies. But if the Government should think fit to grant 3/. 17s. lop. per ounce, and five years was forty-five s_4 per cent. Re this inquiry he would be ready to vote for the supplies average taxation i those for three, four, or six months, or as long as that inquiry millions, ten mill s o o , r: f , s less than He ould ask every honest man on the should last. The question now raised was not whether year i than on the twenty-eighth he ac e e a . rth whether the poor of this country had a minority was prepared to refuse the supplies. He wished a majority to go with him in affirming the prin- But this was a mere difference in the value of 1 ' face grof the for complaint when such a state of things ciple that grievances should be redressed . before e t r h a e e t Tiosted. o the currency ; they must also take into account the supplies were granted. It was not his vote should be ,taken on this question, to intention, deterioration in every branch of industry. Take the ars hear.) tisan, the mechanic, and the labourer ; he ventured further in opposition to the Government .—( Hear, sr . . . . r. CORN-LAWS. Lord REDESDALE presented twenty-nine petitions from different places in Lincolnshire, praying their Lordships to continue to the agricultural interest that small amount of protection which they yet possessed. The Duke of ROXBURGH said that, although no allusion had been made to the corn-laws in the speech from the throne, yet the Noble Mover of the address had alluded to them in the course of his speech, and on that same evening an announcement had been made in the other House of Parliament that it was not the intention of her Majesty's Government to make any alteration in the corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.) He rose for the purpose of expressing the gratification which he had felt on hear ing that announcement. It would tend more than any thing else to restore stability to that agricultural interest which was now so sorely depressed, and would enable it to resist those attacks which were so unjustly and so perseveringly levelled against it—it would give fresh courage to those who had recently so nobly stood up in defence of their rights. He felt it to be his duty to take this, the earliest opportunity, of expressing the satisfaction with which he hailed the announcement of the Government on the subject of the corn-laws. BANK CHARTER. Lord MONTEAG LE disclaimed all party motives in bringing forward the subject of which he had given notice. He was aware of the great difficulty in treating of bankinz Affairs, and while the difficult task of treating of those affairs had devolved upon him in the other House of Parliament, he had received from the members of the present Government such cordial assistance, that he should be guilty of ingratitude were he to discuss this subject with any degree of hasty feeling. At the time his Noble Friend Earl Spencer had brought forward the Bank Charter Renewal Act he had also introduced another Bill on the subject of banking, which had un fortunately not passed into a law. Since that time no very important ineacure on the subject had been submitted to Parliament. He agreed that premature discussion was unadvisable, but he also thought that every possible information should be com municated to their Lordships. Their Lordships were' already in possession of a vast deal of information on the subject. He by no means recommended the ap pointment of a Select Committee to consider the subject, but if it were the attention of the Government it cer tainly was advisable that the Committee should be ap pointed as speedily as possible. The first question he had to ask was, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to institute any inquiry of that description? The next was, in the event of an inquiry of that description being instituted, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to lay before Parliament any documents showing what negotiations or what communications they had had on the subject with the Bank of England? He would not ask that question without a word of explanation. He thought nothing could go further towards impeding the settle ment of this question than the production of any papers which had only incidentally helped the Government to arrive at this conclusion. On the other hand, he thought any papers distinctly explanatory of the course intended to be taken by the Government ought, as far as consistent with the public service, to be laid before Pad* ment. An impression had obtained ground that it was in tended to create a monopoly in banking. This was a most erroneous impression, as nothing of the sort could be intended. He thought the sooner the terms of the pro position agreed to by the Government and the Bank of England were made public, the more likely was this question soon to be settled. He did not wish to draw from the Noble Duke what that proposition was, but he hoped the Noble Duke would, as soon as convenient, put the public in possession of it. The third question he had to put was, whether the alteration of the law contemplated on the subject of banking would apply to Ireland as well as England? The Duke of WELLINGTON was willing to give the Noble Lord all the information in his power. The first question was, whether it was the intention of the Government to appoint a Committee on banking. He thought there was no need for the appointment of such. a Committee, as the House was already in pos session of sufficient information on the sub ject. Regarding the second question, he was not aware that there was at present any document which it would be desirable to lay before the House, but the House might rely upon it that if there were any docu ments which it was requisite to lay before Parliament they would be speedily laid before their Lordships. Regarding the renewal of the charter of the Bank of Ireland the Noble Lord must be aware that it depended upon entirely different circumstances from the renewal of the charter of the Bank of England.—(" Hear, hear" from Lord Monteagle.) It was intended that when the charter of the Bank of Ireland was renewed it should be renewed on the same principle as the Bank of England. A return of the assets and liabilities of the Bank of England, as published in the London Gazette in the years 1842 and 1843, was then moved for. Lord MONTE A GLE wished to know if it were the intention of the Government to institute any inquiry re garding the Irish poor-laws during the present session? The Duke of WELLINGTON said it was the in tention of the Government to institute such an inquiry, but not until the Irish representatives had returned. The Marquis of NORMANBY presented a petition from" the Catholics of Belfast, complaining that Roman Catholics were rejected from the jury appointed at the State trials. He would not, however, for obvious reasons, make any observations on the subject. The House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Feb. 6. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'Clock. Mr. CRESSWELL presented a petition from the Mor peth Union against the Bastardy clause of the Poor law Bill. Lord CLIVE presented a petition from the Berkshire Lay Association, against the union of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor. EXCLUSION OF CATHOLICS FROM JURIES. Mr. ROSS presented a petition from the Catholic inhabitants of Belfast, which was agreed to at a pub lic meeting, attended by persons of every principle and politics, and signed on behalf of the meeting by the chairman, who was an anti-repealer, complaining of the recent proceedings in Ireland, by which Catholics had been excluded from the jury panel, and which the peti tioners considered as inflicting a wanton insult on the Catholics of that country, the result of which must lead to the establishment of a rancorous-political ascendancy. They considered such a course of proceedings as a viola tion of the Emancipation Act, and as tending to raise the question whether Catholics were worthy of credit on their oaths, or were capable of trying persons for sedition. They prayed the interference of the House, and besought the House to address her Majesty, praying her to dismiss her Ministers, and to take steps to secure them against the tyranny of a faction. WINDOW-TAX. Mr. WALKER presented a petition from 60 of the licensed • ictuallers of Berwick, stating that other trades men were exempt from the window-tax on their shops and warehouses, and praying that the same exemptions might be extended to the licensed victuallers. GRIEVANCES. Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD presented petitions from Dartmouth, Market Harborough, Brentwood, and other places. The petitions stated that it was a princi ple of the British Constitution that grievances should be investigated and redress atfordel before the supplies were voted, and they prayed the House to carry out that principle. Also a petition to the same effect from Cam bridge, signed by five hundred persons ' • and a petition to the same effect,, signed by J. Macpherson, of Aberdeen, on behalf of a public meeting. Mr. HUME presented a petition from Buntingford, complaining of the system of representation, and stating that no purson ought to be taxed without having a voice in the Legislature. PROTECTION TO AGRICULTURE. Mr. COBDEN gave notice that on this day fortnight he would move for a Select Committee to inquire relat ing to the effects of import duties on the tenant-farmers and farm-labourers of this country. RAIL WAYk Mr. WALLACE gave notice that on moving for the appointment of the Committee on Railways, he would move that no Member, being a director of railways, or being a shareholder of any railway, should be appointed thereon. THE AFFAIRS OF GREECE. Mr. B. CoCI - IRANEga;e notice that can the 20th he would movefor the correspondence, or extracts of the correspondence, which took place between her Majesty's Government and the Governments of France and. Rus sia relating to recent events in Greece. THE AIfEERS OF SINDE. Mr. ROEBUCK Save Rotice that he would move the following resolution ,upon.the motion of the Noble Lord, the Member for Dorset ( Loid Ashley), " That the conduct pursued by Lord Auckland, as Governor General of India, in his negotiations wit h th e A meers o f Si n d e , was iniquitous and unjust towards them, and • impo litic with regard: to British dominion in In dia, and that flit, policy of Lord Ellenborough was unfortunately the necessary result of the unwise policy pursued by his preaecessor • and that while the restoration of the `Ameers to their former dominion would be dangerous; to Jjritish interests, and therefore impossible, humanity . -required that they should be treated in a manner consistent with their former position." FACTORIES ACT. Mr. BROTHERTON moved for a return of the number and names of the persons summoned for offences against the Factories Act, between the Ist day of January, 1843, and the Ist day of January, 1844, specifying the date of the conviction or hearing, the place of hearing, by whom each conviction was made, the offence in each case, and the manner in which the penalties and costs were appropriated. Also, a sum mary of the total number of informations and convic tions, the amount of penalties and costs, in each year, since the commencement of the Factories Regulation Act in 1834.—Agreed to. The Honourable Member postponed the motion for another return, of which he had given notice, relating to the number of cotton, woollen, LIGHT GOLD. Mr. GISBORNE said he had put a question the other day to the Right Hon. the President of the Board of Trade, on the subject of the light coinage which had found its way back to the Mint, and that gentleman not being then prepared to answer it, had re quested that it might be repeated on a future occasion. He would now ask if the Govern ment were in a situation to give any information to the House, whether the gold coin which had been called in had been deteriorated by wear and tear alone, or whether it had been subjected to sweating, or any other illegiti mate process ? Mr. GLADSTONE, on the part of the Government, begged to sal.- that they had no direct and positive means of ascertaining the dates of all the light sove reigns sent in for re-coinage. Sovereigns of all dates had been returned, but the great mass of them were of the reigns of George the Third and the early part of George the Fourth. Respecting the question, of which the Hon. Member had been kind enough to give him notice, whether or not the coin returned had been sub jected to the process of sweating or other illegi timate process, he could only say that the Government ha i no means of ascertaining positively if such were the case or not. As far, however, as a cor rect opinion could be founded, it was believed that the returned coin had not been subjected to such process to any great extent. The coin generally gave evi dence of very great wear, although, of , course, in particular cases, illegitimate means of causing deterioration had been resorted to. Mr. GISBORNE then gave notice that he would, that day fortnight, move for a Select Committee to in quire into the deterioration of the gold coinage, and whether any measures could be adopted for preventing the loss arising therefrom from falling unjustly upon the people. Sir H. DOUGLAS begged to ask the . Noble Lord, the Member for Dorsetshire, whether he intended to proceed with his motion respecting the affairs of Slade, on the day stated in the notice paper ? Lord ASHLEY said it was certainly his intention to bring forward his motion on that day. Mr. STAFFORD O'BRIEN begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether he could give the House any explanation of the discontinuance of the experiments on the Kingston and Dalkey Atmospheric Railway in Ireland ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the p os e R d g thereh t Ho n had . been Gentleman an.yth ags more than orm misinformed thafrhbrot public ilicetoardfl;esnutt-hhbcphee wc oviecdis continuance originald roavne r o, along Iffo:nhr agreementge the tehxh that te accommodation Kingstonue ffin tesi. sufficient t lt H p oaworrftahi was portion o railway was completed without that condition being ful filled ; and it was the process of covering over a certain portion which had caused the suspension. IRISH REGISTRATION. Mr. WYSE begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary of State for the Home Department, at what period it was his intention to bring forward the Registration Bill for Ireland, and what would be the provisions of the measure? Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he felt great pleasure in answering the first question which the Right Honourable Gentleman had put to him respecting the period at which he should introduce the Bill. It was his intention, on the part of the Government, to move for leave to introduce a Bill to amend the law res pecting the registration of voters in Ireland before the Easter recess. As to the particular provisions of the measure, he hardly thought it could be expected of him that he should then state what those provisions might be. He was not aware, that under similar circumstances, it had been expected of any Government.--(Hear, hear.) THE RAIL COMMITTEE. Mr. WALLACE, seeing the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade in his place, took that opportunity of informing him that previous to the Right Hon. Gentleman's coming into the House he had given notice that, on the motion for appointing the Com mittee on Railways, he would move a resolution to the effect that no director or shareholder of any railway company should be a member of that Committee. He -now begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman ifamongst the Members whom he intended to appoint upon that Committee there was any railway director or shareholder? Mr. GLADSTONE said that he was obliged to the Hon. Member for Greenock for havik communicated to him the notice he had given, and he had no difficulty in giving him all the information in his power in reply to his concluding question. The gentlemen whom he had named for his Committee were not selected by mitt. directors, He could however,as far that a s thheisreknwoew some re. him, but were nominated at the s ugges ti on o f and say,at least,the gentlemen who formed the p rev i ous Com eeledge went, one shareholder in railway companies. The Honourable Member for Reading was Chair man of the Great Western Railway. The Ho nourable Member for Clitheroe was a Director of the South Eastern, and two other of the gentlemen were also railway directors. The two first-named gentlemen were connected with what were called high fare rail ways, and the two last with low fare lines. There was also the Noble Lord the Member for Totnes, who was nominated because, as he was a Member of the late Government, and had been upon the former Com mittee, it was thought right that he should be also upon this. He believed that the Noble Lord was a director of a new railway. He himself (Mr. Gladstone) was a shareholder in a railway company ; but he was not able to give the Honourable Gentleman any further information as to the constitution of the Committee. THE RIGHT OF SEARCH. In answer to a question from Sir C. NAPIER, Sir ROBERT PEEL said that the whole question of the instructions to be given to " the comman ders of cruisers for the detection of slave ships, had been referred to a Commission, consisting of Dr. Lush ington and Captain Bayne. With regard to instructions occasioned by negotiations with the United States, he could only say, that they were consistent with the in structions formerly given, but he did not think a due regard to the public service would allow him to give a more explicit answer. Lord PALMERSTON wished to ask whether the Government had come to any understanding, or made any arrangements as to the power which the com manders of our vessels should have of visiting ships for the purpose of ascertaining their nationality ? Sir R. PEEL said the instructions which had been given this year were the same as those which had been issued to the officers of her Majesty's Navy in the first instance. CEMETERIES IN LARGE TOWNS. In reply to an HoN. MEMBER, who Inquired whether it was the intention of Government to introduce any Bill for the prevention of interment in large cities and towns, Sir J. GRAHAM said the question of the health of large towns was at present under the consideration of a Committee ; and until this Committee had made their Report, he cou►d not distinctly state what course the Government intended to pursae. FACTORIES AMENDMENT BILL. Sir J. GRAHAM rose to introduce a Bill for the better regulation of, and to amend the laws relating to, factories ; and in doing so said that the Bill was similar to the one he had introduced during the last session, which had been founded upon the Report of a Select Committee. His Bill introduced several important alterations and limitations as to ages and hours of labour. As the law now stands, the definition of children was between the ages of nine and thirteen years. He proposed that the specification be somewhat altered, and that the definition of children be fixed between the ages of eight and thir teen. Ha proposed that children between the ages of eight and thirteen should not be employed in any one day fur a longer period than six hours and a half; and that , they should not be employed both in the forenoon and the afternoon of the same day. Respecting young persons, the definition in the law, as it stands, was between the ages of thirteen and eighteen years. He did not propose to make any alteration in this definition of ages, but he should pro pose, as to their hours of work, that they should not be employed in any cotton, silk, wool, or flax manufac tory f.)r any portion of the twenty-four hours longer than from half -past five to seven in summer, and from six to eight in winter, thus making thirteen and a half hours of work, with one hour and a half of time for rest. As the law at present stood, all persons above the age of eighteen were considered adults, and of their labour there was no limitation at all. But under the present law many persons were employed as adults who were totally unfit for the labour. The Right Hon. Baronet then read extracts from the report of Mr. Horner, as to the periods of work required from persons who were considered adults, and especially from adult females. With the best consideration that he could give to the reports and evidence which it had been his duty to con sult, he had determined to propose a limitation to the continuous labour of females, satisfied that the uncontrolled exercise of their industry was alike injurious to their health and their morals.—(Hear, hear.) He also proposed to enact a new limitation with respect to the way in which back time was now brought up. and which had led to great infractions of the law. Where the power had been of a double nature (steam-power and water-power), whenever loss of time t givengha had eeaai ntp a cl greatly forwc r u eiir ed , t redeeming violate is proposed water-power o e pr tphoes etdhl t a y i swt so hl that stno tn losing inpyoow bringing facilitiesea i rn t hadt oexcepting that made to ha e ate t m sth, d should s ed o where u h bp e e should propose a further limitation. Power also was given to the proper authorities to notify to millowners, wherever and whenever, in their opinion, machinery might be considered dangerous ; and if, after such noti fication, any accident should occur, it should be 4