The Sun. — London, England, 1839-06-04 00:00:00

)N. xtraordinary 'sions in the 10d. to three —he ‘Tish"d orward (or , n received .onsiderable icy v;as ap . Govern deration as ord the Se ; place, be slave trade• F to use all slave trade• s) had seen , slave trade t as o'e r ' Government purpose of to be com- Baronet as i e wag S till Detime ago u t to Pnro vt.'o asd as carried s now P re- Lye to jet. -°- . taken pl ace 's he wished introduc- ly suffering Noble Lord ACKSON , the Clergy • the No ble would bay e ,f the letter et of coun s to the re •Y• Also . 11 , nv eying hi s Dnduct dur- that be bad ild move for Lent orders He ask s ion of the of the Del ware that It d a stages he on that del . id proPee e . d ient that It ?r for futur e :edence on ed also th e Viernber net's PI.- precedence SIT B ll4l ' aed. s of Canada gn ada• ecl th e , a r, but by the le that . a bee n n their much retain al con• f their e who ; that ; could uthors ed the n that o f the EVEN ING E DITION. ! opinions, from the members of the Assembly. There thus Frew up a con -tent onvosition and irritation bete. cei, tee members c.l the Assembly chosen by the inha bitants of the Lower Province and the British majority in the Legisative Council. It was found, however, .drat this mod e o f pro's:, eding tended u lti mate l y to dissen ts;on and disunion ; the provincial business could not be " carried on, ard the Governor was obliged, year after year, to report the failure of the measures which had been re commended to him by the Secretary of State. At length the Committee of 1828 was appointed ; the propositions 1 of which were fairly adopted by the House; and the Government had determined at that time to grant every thing in fairness and in justice to the Assembly of Lower Canada.—(llear, hear.) But the Assembly, elated by their former triumphs, and thinking that there was now no obstacle to further proceedings, made demands totally incompatible with the relations be tween the parent state and the celony--demands which tended to deprive the British inhabitants of all power, to deprive the representatives of the Crown of all centre], and which in fact established, under the name of a " province" a French independent state in Lower Canada, Britain having only the burden of supporting her fleets and armies, to protect the colony —or rather the republic—against foreign aggres sions. In consequence.of these proceedings in 1837, he had proposed certain resolutions to that House, which, after long debates had been adopted by a Brea' majority, those resolutions negatived both propositions of the Assembly of Lower Canada, stated the House would not agree to their demands, that the House would provide for the payment of their servants of the Crown, who hid been left for three years unpaid by the Assembly. These proceedings increased the irritation and discontent among the leaders of the Assembly, which became so dangerous in the eyes of Lord Gosford, that lie felt it necessary to issue warrants for the apprehension for high treaaon against several Members of the Assembly, who with few exceptions left the country, and that rebellion took place which gave rise to the Act of last year. In consequence of that Act, and under its powers, Lord Durham was sent to Canada. He remained there no very long period, and considering the different details of Administration. and the immense amount of business which devolved upon him, the attention which he gave to the general state of the province showed that if he had been enabled to re main the time originally contemplated, they would have received from him a satisfactory account of the measures most advisable to be pursued. The report of Lord Dur ham described at length and in forcible language the evils of Canada, and the source of those evils, drawing, he hoped, too strong a picture of the animosity existing between the two races, French and English. Ile now came to the question of the remedy ,of those evils, and be fore he stated his proposition for the re-union of the two provinces, he would beg again to remind the House that the chief evils against which they had to contend appeared to be derived almost directly from the separation of the provinces; one evil consequent upon this was, the predominance of the French in the Assembly, and their consequent refusal to make any alteration in French habits, language, or tenures, and their refusal to do anything for the encouragement of Bri tish enterprize. The fact was that this measure had shut up the French, as it were, in an en trenched camp, and gave them the artillery of a House of Assembly, and how could they be condemned for the use of the weapons which had been furnished them ? An. other evil of this separation was, that the inhabitants of the Upper Province were thereby disabled from opening a di rect communication with the sea, which was deeply adverse to British interests, and had forced them into a commercial connection with the United States. This was shown in the address from the inhabitants of Montreal, from which it appeared that several works of great public utility, particu larly the St. Lawrence canal, which had been planned by the inhabitants of the Upper Province, had been entirely frustrated by the anti-commercial policy of the French Ca nadians. Thus the Act of Separation caused political dis sensions in Lower Canada, and arrested all enterprises of public utility in the other Province. It would seem, therefore, that the proper remedy for these evils would be to remove that separation which had caused them. There had been other _plans proposed, the objection to which he would take this opportunity of alluding to. One plan was to continue the present unconstitutional power to the Governor and Special Council of Lower Canada, of raising taxes and of making laws. He thought that any longer continuance of such power, with a prospect of a return to representative Government, would be most re- Pugnant to the feelings of a people who had once been governed by a representative Government, but above all, repugnant to the feelings of those who had long been in possession of Colonial Assemblies. Besides, throughout the whole continent of America, there is no instance of despotic power being lodged either in the hands of one individual, or of a small body of men ; even the provinces anciently belonging to Spain, had acknowledged the representative principle of Government.—(Cheers.) And he thought that if a Colony containing a Population of 150,000 of B r iti s h d escent should 1 , 7 attempted to be governed with out consu l t i ng t h e w i shes : the inhabitants, a spirit of discontent would grow up proposed by the late Lieutenant-Governor of Upper Canada, which was to unite Montreal and its district to Upper and leave Lower Canada to a different form of .?rernment. Thi s , a l t h oug h apparently of service to Upper C ana d a , wou ld not b e so in effect; because although the interruption to the trade by the French Assembly of of Lower Canada would not take place at the same point, the lame spirit of obstruction would exist, and as regarded , Lower Canada, that plan would still give in the Assembly of Lower Canada a majority of French Canadians ; and after what had happened, and the continued refusal of the Legislative Assembly of Lower Canada to legislate, unless power was given to them incompatible with their situation as colonists, and destructive to' the interests of British subjects, the population of Lower Canada would not letie.tly submit to the domination of that Assembly. L o t :Zcould neither est a bli s h ar bi trary G overnment in Conte eat' Canada, consist e nt w ith th e genera l pr i nc i p l es and nt ment of the provin ces , an d if t h e y cou ld no t re_ blish to the Ass em bly w i t h i ts pre d om i nance , he knew not What pl an t h ey could resort, unless b y the un i on o f t h e two provinces, to give to the British population of Upper Canada and Lower Canada, and to the French population of Lowe r C a nada equal and fair inAitutions, by which a representative system might be guaranteed, and by which all the means of promoting the prosperity of both pro vinces might be fully obtained. Thus he arrived at this general conclusion—first, that if he looked at the history of what had occurred since the Net of 1791—if he looked at the evils which had arisen in Lower Canada, he was led to the conclusion that these evils had flowed from the separation of the provinces. If they looked at the remedy, and saw that it was necessary to lay the founda tion for some permanent settlement, any proposition for that settlement would fail unless it was for the union of the two provinces. Therefore by con sidering both the evils and the remedy, he was led irresistibly to this conclusion. There was another scheme of a far more extensive nature, and which had been aban doned by its proposers : he meant the confederation of all the provinces, having each its separate assembly, and one supreme assembly over the whole. On that subject, a Year and a half ago, be consulted Sir James Kempt, who isid he was convinced that such union would be impracti. cable ; that it would lead to the greatest inconvenience on the part of the representatives of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia; and that he would dissuade him (Lord John Russell) from entertaining any such proposal. Lord Dur ham went out very much disposed to consider every plan, and perhaps with a leaning to the union of the provinces, but he was led to the conclusion that he could not recom mend such an union. It was now necessary for him (Lord John Russell) to state shortly the principles on which the meditated union was to be founded. One main consideration was in what manner the representation was to be formed—whether by giving each province a certain number of members, or in any r other manner. It Was the opinion of Government generally that they ought not to lay down any precise number of representatives for Lower Canada and for Upper Canada and that they ought not to lay it down as a principle that population alone was to be considered. It would be necessary in forming an union to consider all the matters of populas tier, and territory upon which a good representation might hereafter be founded. It was proper to combine territory with population, and lay down as a general basis that they Would combine these two principles, and give a repre sentation that might not be exactly suitable to the amount of population at present, but would in the course of a few years. Now taking this principle it was a great advantage that the effect of it would be to give a greater weight to the British inhabitants of Lower Canada, because he considered many of the evils of Canada had grown from the extreme jealousy of the French inhabitants at the introduction of new laws and new enterprise itito their province ; and he thought the true policy of this country was, to give a British character to the whole pro vince—( Hear, hear)—to allow British laws and regula tions to have their free scope, and to take care that the French were not oppressed. This was a general principle, which could not be carried into effect by any Bill that could at this moment be introduced, because it would re quire inquiry upon the spot. There was one portion of Lord Durham's Report to which he would immediately advert, in connection with this subject. He proposed that there should be power given to the Governor of suspending by proclamation the rights of electoral districts, in which disturbances had taken place, stating the specific grounds of his determination. That appeared to him (Lord J. Russell) to he very objectionable. It was better to adopt some general principle, such as that already mentioned, and delay the carrying into effect of this legislative union for a considerable time, rather than incur the danger of introducing the representative principle with such exceptions or running the d anger o f g i v i ng re presentatives to ehstricts which had lately been almost universally in insurrection. It appeared to him better to postpone for a period the calling together of any Assembly for the two provinces, and he therefore prop ose d th a t no A ssem bl y s h ou ld be called together till 1842. It followed as a necessary consequence that the Powers granted to the Governor and Special Council should be continued. He would now go through some of the proposals contained in the Report of Lord Durham, which he greatly regretted had not been more developed. His Lordship proposed that there should be a Local Go vernment, subordinate to the general Legislature, which should provide the rates and tolls for the purposes of roads, canals, and ether works of a local nature. He proposed there should be a Supreme Court of Appeal fur all the provinces. This must necessarily he reserved for a separate Bill. With regard to the constitution of the Legislative Council, the Report did not contain any very di finite proposal. The best mode would be esi some h m e e r p t o h p a u t l a t r h e a s „. p e e m r li b e l y n , appointed placedto make it necessary sh ou ld b e a mem b er o f in some office by the Crown, which might serve as a proof that he was a person whom the Crown had thought fit to entrust in former times.—( Hear, hear.) He should pre ppie with regard to the Crown revenues that the As sembly should have the power cf applying them, pr ov i s i on first being made for an adequate Civil List. It was CVi- Cnt that the disputes which had arisen between the Crown and the popular Assemblies, on the ground of the applica tion of money, could only be stopped, if they could b e 'topped at all, by complete confidence on the one side and on the other. There was another point which was of the greatest importance, and upon which Lord Durham had the Governor of Canada to be placed in a situation superior to that in which the Monarch of this empire was placed 2—( Hear, hear.) Unless the Legislative Council were made elective there would be no possibility of car rying on the Government of Lower Canada, if the Coun cil would not yield to the general feeling of the Province. He (Mr. Hume) did not object to the first resolution, he thought it would he productive of benefit, in the present state of parties in the Canadas, that the provinces should be united. But he did object to the unfair principle which the Noble Lord had hinted at, but had not very clearly ex plained, as to giving a preference to the British popula tion by some influence of territory, a principle which wculd be peculiarly unjust when the colonies were united, and when, consequently, the British influence in the Upper Province would effectually control the opposite party in the Lower Province. He therefore did earnestly protest against the principles laid down by the Noble Lord. Mr. GOU LB URN moved that the debate be adjourned till Monday next. Sir R. PEEL remarked, in commencing, that if he spoke now on the question of the adjournment, he should not forfeit his right to speak on Monday upon the main question—( Hear, hear)—though the lion. Member for Kilkenny had just missed it.—(Loud laughter, in which Mr. Hume joined -heartily.) The Right Hon. Baronet then proceeded to say, that to-night he had received the first intimation that the Government was not prepared to bring forward any actual legislation as to Canada during the present Session.—( Hear, hear.) He certainly did not wish to press the Government for actual legislation, if they had good reasons for abstaining from it. The Noble Lord, indeed, bad stated that he had recently received accounts from Canada, confirming the apprehensions which had previously been entertained of the impossibility of le gislating for the colony. He (Sir R. Peel) hoped that this information would speedily be laid before the House.— ( Hear, hear.) He was now speaking at a great disadvan tage, without that information, which he considered essential to an ultimate decision. And though he might state some grave doubts which he entertained as to the creme proposed by the Noble Lord, he should feel himself quite at liberty, after he had received further in formation, to alter his judgment. The Noble Lord then proposed that the House should abandon legislation for the present, but agree to the principle of legislation which was to take place in 1842—the New Assembly was not to meet till then. Now, he ( Sir Robert Peel) entertained considerable doubt as to the propriety of the Imperial Par liament giving a pledge which was not to be redeemed till 1842.—( Hear, hear.) How could he foresee what might occur in the meantime? How could he assent to the ab stract principle of a union without knowing the peculiar grounds on which the two provinces might be connected? Lord Durham's Report pressed strongly for the immediate consideration of the question ; but upon the assumption that the Government intended to propose actual legislation, Lord Durham said, it would be very dangerous to ollow a single session, or even the greater part of a session, to pass away without a definite decision upon the part of the Imperial Legislature as to the basis upon which it pro poses to found the future Government of the Canadas; and that no time should be lost in repealing the 31st George 111., and re-constituting the Canadas as one province. The Government, however, it would scan, had for the expressed an -opinion contrary to the resolution of this House, with respect to the responsibility of the officers of the Government. Lord Durham bad stated in the narra tive of a representative Constitution in this country, that as soon as the Minister of the Crown had lost the confidence of the House they ceased to be Ministers.—( Laughter from the Opposition.) They did not go cn with constant minorities—(Cheers from the. Ministerial benches) —and be wished to apply that principle to the Govern ment of Canada. Since the passing of that resolution nothing had occurred which had shaken the arguments by which he then supported it. It did not appear to him that they could s u bj ec t t h e E xecut i ve o f a colony to the re sponsibility demanded of the Executive in this country. There was an obvious and complete difference between the Executive in this country and in Canada. The Governor might ask the Executive to propose a certain measure. They might say they would not. How was he to proceed ? One or the other must be set aside. Either the Execu tive in Canada must yield, or he must become a mere cypher, and not carry into effect the measure which he was required to do by the Home Government, who alone were responsible. It was impossible that it could be, laid down as a general principle, that as the Executive of this country must have the confidence of the country, the Exe cutive, of that country must be responsible to the inhabitants of each Province, end not to the superintending authority of the Crown of these realms. He would state here that it was proposed to repeal some portion of the laws relating to clergy reserves; and that the endowments to the Catholic Church in Lower Canada should be guaranteed ; he thought that these questions, affecting the religious instruction of the people of Canada, should be left to the Legislature ofithe Province, the in habitants of which had always manifested the greatest anxiety with regard to religious instruction ; and he thought it would be better to have the opinion of the Province on the question before proceeding to decide on it in the Im perial Legislature. It remained that he should state what were the opinions which appeared to be entertained in Ca nada regarding the general manner of proceeding proposed. It appeared that in Lower Canada there had long existed a strong party anxious for this union, and several addresses had been presented from different associations, particularly from the district of Montreal, stating that the British in habitants of Lower Canada looked to the proposed re uniting of the two provinces for their future security. The Legislature of Upper Canada in general adhered to the proposition for re-union, while at the same time they asked for terms which were not fit to be granted to that Pro vince. On the 23d of March the legislative Assembly of Upper Canada had passed resolutions declaratory of the evils which bad been the consequence of the se paration of the two Provinces, stating that the re-union would be exceedingly desirable, deputing agents to England to represent their feelings on the subject. In the Legislative Council the proposal for reunion had been rejected by a majority of two only. Further accounts had that day been received of the pro ceedings of the Legislative Council and Assembly, conse quent upon their receipt of Lord Durham's Report. Both stated that they considered themselves unjustly treated by the Lord High Commissioner in his Report on the trans actions of Canada, and the Legislative Assembly had determined not to send their two agents to England. They had transmitted an Address to her Majesty, in which they referred to the Report. The resolutions were dated the 30th of April, 1839, and they went to the two most important points of the Report, the one the Legislative Union, and the other the responsibility of the official func tionaries to the local representative Government. To the first point he had already expressed his assent, but he dis sented from the second as incompatible with the dependence of the colonies oa the mother country. They concluded the Address to the Queen by stating that they were much concerned to find the House of Commons were about to adopt those changes without consulting the opinion of those who would be so deeply affected by them, and hoped her Majesty would disallow every measure calculated to weaken the ties by which they were united to the mother country. With these facts before them he thought they might affirm the principle on which they would legislate, but he did not think it would be just to proceed to enact the details of any plan without having previously had the opinions on this subject of the loyal people from whom this address had emanated, and who were - firmly attached to our monarchical institutions. His desire was to draw the tics uniting the colony and the mother coun try still closer, and that no principles should be adopted tending to the separation of subjects so devoted and loyal to her Majesty's Crown, and so entitled to the strongest sympathies of the people of this kingdom. This was a question deeply affecting the empire at large, and affecting still more deeply the welfare of two millions of our fellow-subjects on the other side of the Atlantic ; for although the proposed measure might not allude to Nova Scotia or New Brunswick by name, yet those colonies could not but be deeply affected by the measure. He had now stated the principles of the proposed measure, and he would repeat what he had said last session, that he trusted this question would be discussed now, as it had beets then, apart from party considerations, and as affecting the most important interests of the Empire at large. Her Majesty's Government, after the most anxious consideration, had determined on the present plan, and he committed it to the House in the full security that it would be fully and fairly considered. The Noble Lord then moved two resolutions, the first declaratory of the ne cessity of uniting the two Provinces of Canada, for the purpose of forming such a representative Government as might be most conducive to the happiness and prosperity of the colony, and the second declaring it the opinion of the House that the Act passed for the Government of Lower Canada last Session should continue in force until 1842, with such alterations as may be deemed expedient. On the question being put, Lord JOHN RUSSELL intimated his desire that the further consideration of the resolutions should be post poned to Monday next. Mr. HUME felt himself placed in an awkward situa tion by the last proposition of the Noble Lord, because his statements would go forth as if the House assented to his opinions on the subject.—(No, no.) He deeply regretted the course pursued by the Noble Lord, which was a con tinuance of the system which had been pursued for the last twenty years, and to which the troubles of Canada were to be attributed, while he dissented from giving them an Executive responsible to their Representatives,which would tend to lessen the existing evils._( Hear, hear, hear. ) The people of Lower Canada had never complained of a grievance which was not fully acknowledged to exist, and the Noble Member for North Lancashire had admitted the necessity of anielective Legislative Council. The Noble Lord also proposed to leave the present mode of government until 1882—(A laugh)—if it were left unal tered until 1842 it would be so until 1882 ; and he also proposed to give the Governor still more extensive powers, although he was at a loss to know how he could have more extensive powers than he already possessed. Everything remained at the present moment a perfect despotism; and so it would seem it was to remain until 1842. This was the case as to Lower Canada. Now as to Upper Canada. The Assembly of that Province were not the real representatives of the people. When they ought to have been dissolved, at the decease of his late Majesty, the Government sanctioned the Assembly in constituting themselves to remain in power four years longer, well knowing that their measures were not in accordance with the feelings of the great body of the people. He (Mr. Hume) would tell the Noble Lord plainly, as he had told him of the resolutions of 1837, that this was not the way to promote peace in the Canadas. They must have the means of governing themselves. The British party, however respectable, must not be allowed to exercise an unjust preponderance over the other party, and some method must be devised for causing the Assembly and the Council to act in harmony. The Noble Lord smiled doubtless at the idea of a Government in a minority in that /-!,use, and at the hardship and degradation of a Go vernment not being able to carry its measures in that House. Did not her Majesty state to a Noble Duke, to whom she had sent, that she w as sorry to part with her Ministers, but that the House of Commons were against them, and that they having lost the confidence of that House sbe yielded to the necessity of the House being in accordance with the Ministers of the Crown ? Was O'CONNELL'S ADDRESS TO THE CHARTISTS OF BIRMINGHAM. " There is but one magic in politics, and that is to be right."--JuNIUS. BrioTura REFORMERS—There are many points of the greatest importance upon which we agree. In truth, upon the great principles of Reform we scarcely differ at all. Our difference consists chiefly in this—that you deem one mode of action the most conducive to attain your objects ; and that I consider another mode more likely to obtain all that is desirable towards the amelio ration of our political institutions. But the difference in this respect is very extensive ; because I have con vinced myself that your mode of action does not assist, but, on the contrary, powerfully impedes the progress of Reform. lam convinced that, instead of advancing that cause, you are retarding it by increasing the num ber of its enemies, diminishing the number of its friends, engendering a spirit of suspicion of your motives, and creating a rational apprehension for the security of the social state and of individual property. It seems to me that, although you intended to serve our cause, you have placed y ourse l ves, pract i ca l ly, amidst its worst enemies ; and that the near approach to the extension of the franchise, to the protection of the voter, to the equalization of representation, and to the shortening of Parliaments, has, for the present, been stopped by the unwise (and, in many instances, criminal) manner in which the Chartists have conducted themselves in va rious parts of the country. Brother Reformers--I do not address the violent and unthinking portion of your body. It would be in vain to argue with them. But Ido address the many —for there must be very many —of the rational and sober-thinking portion of the Chartists. I ask them to weigh the advice which I give them—not with a view to obtain any attention on the score of my authority— but in the hope that they may soberly consider the arguments I adduce, and give their reason and judg ment fair play in deciding upon those arguments. In the first place, then, I ask you to consider whether you have not adopted an exceedingly bad principle— that of " exclusiveness;" whether you do not exclude from any co-operation with you, all other classes of the nation except yourselves? You exclude— First,—The aristocracy ; amongst whom, it is true, are to be found that oligarchy which has plundered and oppressed you, and which desires to continue that plun der and oppression. But still there are amongst that aristocracy several honest friends of peaceful reform ; who, though they do not go the whole way with you, yet are ready to be the enemies of your enemies ; and to be friendly, to a certain extent, to your exertions. But all these your orators peremptorily exclude ; nay, they go so far as to denounce them all ; and thus they necessarily augment the number of those hostile to reform. THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 1839. present abandoned its intention of actually legislating on the subject ; but had proposed an abstract principle, without being prepared to recommend any executory measure. Now his ( Sir Robert Peel's) whole experience in Parliament had led him to distrust abstract resolutions of principle—( Hear, hear, hear)—and above all he thought them inexpedient with regard to our Colonies.—( Hear, r hear.) The only advantage which the Noble Lord pro posed to secure by this abstract resolution was, that it would be a pledge of the disposition of the House to preserve Constitutional Government in Canada. He (Sir R. Peel's) answer to that was that he had already given this pledge, for he had consented to the conferring of despotic powers on the Governor and Council of Lower Canada only on the grounds of temporary necessity, and had solemnly guaranteed a return as soon as possible to the forms of Constitutional Government.—(Hear, hear. ) He decidedly concurred with the Noble Lord that Parlia ment had a perfect right to prevent the inhabitants of Lower Canada from dictating to those of Upper Canada; but was it not better first to see how the measure could efficiently be carried into execution, instead of beginning by asserting the abstract priuciple without adverting to the way in which it was to be carried into opera tion?—(Hear, bear, hear.) The Government were not by this course relieving itself or any responsibility, while, on the other hand, the difficulties which naturally surrounded the subject were, in a tenfold degree aggra. rated.—( Hear, hear.) He regretted that the advise which he had offered last Session had not been followed—to send out distinct propositions to the Canadas—that if they wished to maintain their connection with this country, maintained it should be; that the Imperial Parliament felt the impossibility of supporting any Government in Canada, in opposition to the general feeling of the colony—( Hear, hear)--that there was no desire, on the part of the country, to continue the Government in Canada from any paltry pecuniary motives—( Hear, hear)—but that the British interests must firmly be upheld, if the con nection was to be preserved; and this country could not be expected to incur the responsibility and the expense of defending the colony, if, on every occasion, British inte rests were to be opposed or thwarted by the abuse of the forms of a Constitutional Government.—( Hear, hear.) Why, the Government had not advanced a single step in its proposal to-night beyond what had been done in 1823 by Mr. Wilmot Horton, who expressed himself in favour of a legislative union, but did not know how to effect it.— ( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord said he waited to know the number of representatives each province should have. He would not explain what the number should be or upon what basis the union was to be formed. If they had the information which was necessary, why not proceed to le gislate at once? If they had it not, why proceed with a resolution which in fact said nothing ?—(Cheers.) If local information were necessary, and he thought it was, it must be obtained; and call those who were so employed by what name they pleased, Commissioners they would be.—( Hear, hear, from Colonel Sibthorp.) He was quite unprepared to throw out a word against the prin ciple of the union ; an d h e was qu i te prepared to give the Government any powers that were necessary for maintaining the authority of the Crown in those colonies, yet he would reserve to himself the right to decide if they were to abandon legislation this Session, whether it was right to fetter himself by agreeing to a resolution such as that before the House. He would not condescend to make such an important question a party one, but at the same time neither would he compliment away his own well-considered opinions.—( Cheers. ) Mr. C. BULLER had been totally unaware of any part of the plan of the Government with respect to Canada until he came into that House, and it would be peculiarly indecent for him to offer any comments upon the resolution at that moment. He was very glad that the Noble Lord was in favour of a union between the two provinces— he was only sorry that h e h a d not gone f urt h er , an d carried out the report of Lord Durham, and united the whole of the five provinces. He was sorry that the Government had not adopted that report so far as to give a free repre sentative Government, with Ministerial responsibility as full as it was in this country; without that it would be far more charitable, far more truly liberal, to do away with the farce of a representative Government, which was no check upon the Executive. That debate would be heard .. by a delegate from one of the most loyal of our North American colonies, Nova Scotia; he was here to complain of the grievances under which they laboured. In the House of Assembly in that colony there were three Execu tive Councillors. On the question of secondary delegates there were two divisions—one 37 to 7—the other 35 to 9 ; in each of th ese m i nor i t i es t h e t h ree E xecut i ve Councillors voted. How could a representative Government go on with such a Government minority, as that was about the usual relative position of the popular party and the Government? How could a representative Government be carried cn when it was constantly opposed to the great body of the representatives of the people? He cared not a phi for the decision the Noble Lord came to.— (Laughter.) He cared for the Colonies and he cared for the manner in which the Representative Government was given, but he told the Noble Lord that his resolution carried responsible government along with it, for if he united the Canadas, and there were a British majority of the Representatives of a million of British subjects, they would enforce responsibility. If they were to be governed upon the same principle as Nova Scotia, against the wishes of the people's Representatives, not one Session would pass before the Supplies were stopped, and if they were stopped by the United Canadas, where was the force that could take it from them—living, as they did, next door to the freest and most responsible government in the world. He would support any plan of the Noble Lord which proposed to unite the Canadas ; but why create such delay in legislating upon the subject ? It had created much alarm. After picturing the horrors of the civil war dur ing the last winter, he said, were they going to leave the Canadians to a repetition of the same scenes of wretched. ness, insecurity, and distress ? It was essentially necessary that they should legislate upon the subject without delay, for if the scenes now going on on the frontiers of Lower. Canada were allowed to go on much longer, those, coupled with the Boundary question, must eventually bring us into a war with America. All that was wanted was a good, a popular, and strong Government—no hesitation, and all 7hese deplorable scenes would at once cease.—( Hear.) These Colonies existed alone by emigration from this country; that had now been' put an end to, and the emi gration was now from Upper Canada to the States, and was going on at such a rate as must soon depopulate the whole of the fine province of Upper Canada. He called upon every gentleman in that House to lay aside all party feuds upon that subject, and unite in their endeavours to give the colony a popular and strong responsible govern men' Mr. O'CONNELL—The Hon. Gentleman had given them a sad picture of the brutal manner in which the poor French Canadians had been treated, and yet the only pa nacea he offered them was to annihilate them for ever as a party. They had been treated exceedingly ill by the Bri tish ever since the conquest of the province, and was it I , ltely that the horrors they were obliged to endure last winter would make them more contented with their lot ? Had the Government proposed to have gone on at once, and without inquiry, they would have been denounced as too precipitate and harsh. Now, when they were making inquiry on the spot—when they were proceeding cautiously, they were taunted with leaving all in uncertainty. He thought their plan was the wisest, because what they did could not be undone in a day. His carried principal into o effect a object was th toe expensepr protestof th againsteFrench. If there was being e was to be a union let the French be put "on an equality with the other inhabitants of the country, and share every advantage which they enjayed.—(Cheers.) The word " union" had no magic in it, and the arrangement proposed would have no advantage unless on terms of perfect equality and fairness to all parties.—( Hear, hear.) Loid JOHN RUSSELL replied. The Hon. Mem ber for Liskeard had asked whether a representative Go vernment could be carried on with a representative Go vernment constantly in a minority. Ho could see no wisdom in refusing to agree to measures which were agreeable to the majority of the Assembly of the province which was to be governed. The Right Hon. Bart. had objected to the resolution because it was not immediately to be followed by a Bill. He had said the Government had been making inquiries, but proposed to take no step. He (Lord John Russell) thought that a resolution in fa vour of the principle of union would be taking a most important step, and that it would have great weight and authority in Canada. If a Bill had been int , oduced, the Right Hon. Bart. might have objected with greater force that it was very well to adopt the principle of union, but that the Assembly had protested against it, and therefore it had better be postponed for another year. The Right Hon. Bart. had said that it was proposed to pass this re solution and not to proceed to any enactment till 1342. It was desirable the Assembly should not meet till 1842, but the Union might be enacted a considerable time pre viously. Se. R. PEEL did not wish it to be understood that he had pressed for peremptory legislation. All he had said was that the Noble Lord had always led him to believe that peremptory legislation would be adopted. The debate was then adjourned until Monday next. METROPOLITAN POLICE BILL. The Order of the Day having been moved for the second reading of this Bill, Sir R. PEEL said it bad been publicly stated that be was of opinion that it would have been better if the city police had been amalgamated with the metropolitan, but that he had deferred to the general sense of the City, whereas her Majesty's Ministers were so attached to the principle that they were determined to adhere to it, and a contrast had been drawn to his disfavour. Now he had understood that the Bill was brought in with the consent of the Government, which had taken nearly the same views that he did; and he wished to know whether he was in error, and the Noble Lord was not a consenting party to the Aldermen's Bill, and that he concurred in thinking the united system better than the separate one, but found the objections so strong that he would not press it ? Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, the Right Honourable Baronet was correct in his statement of the case. He (Lord John Russell) thought it would be better to have one police for the whole metropolis, but when he found there was such a strong dislike to the introduction of the measure into the City, he was convinced that if it was forced on them, it would not be productive of the advan. tagcs contemplated. He therefore thought it better to waive what he considered a great improvement. He would take the present opportunity of saying that he pre. sented a petition the other evening, when a great number of members had left the House, very numerously signed by the inhabitants of London, praying for a reform of the Corporation of the City.--( Hear, hear.) The Order of the Day having been read, Colonel SIBTHORP opposed the Bill. Sir B. HALL said, that the City of London Police Bill having been referred to a Select Committee, he was most anxious to see the Report of that Committee before offering any observations on the present Bill. He should therefore defer the amendment of which he had given notice, until the Bill should be going into Committee, when he should take the sense of the House on the subject. Mr. HUME said he wished his Hon. Friend, the Mem. ber for Marylebone, had stated his objections, as he was anxious to hear what could be urged against the Bill, since all those allegations which had been uried against it were unfounded, and it was represented as containing provisions which were no where to be found in the Bill. It was founded on tho Report of a Committee of which he had been a member, and which had sat for three years. There were only three clauses to which he objected—one of which was the payment of the constabulary out of the Consoli dated Fund. He wished his Hon. Friend had stated his objections, because it was of importance that the public should know what the really was, and not be led away by clamour. He was prepared to show that it was an amelioration of the existing system of police, and if the Government were to blame for this Bill, they were only so for endeavouring to carrying out the recommendation of the Committ ee . Mr. FOX MAULE would not now enter into the dis cussion. No one except the Marylebone meeting would contend that a Police Bill for the metropolis was not ne cessary ; and he thought the provisions would best be dis cussed in Committee. He would only allude to one accu sation against the Bill, which stated that it empowered the police to enter houses ; the only power of this sort given was in the 28th clause, by which they had the power of entering gamin.. houses. Ile would take this opportunity of expressing the gratitude he felt to his Hon. Friend the Member for Kilkenny, for defending before the Marylebone meeting a measure, the objects of which his own good ~ense taught him was necessary. Mr. G. PALMER disapproved of the principle of the Bill. Mr. HAWES wished clearly to understand the inten tions of his Hon. Friend the Member for Marylebone. Sir B. HALL said he was anxious to see the state in which the other Bill would leave the Select Committee, and if it came out in an improved state, he trusted that this Bill would be permitted to have the benefit of those improvements. Mr. WA KL E Y said the course pursued by the Go vernment on this question had been so irregular and un even, that he scarcely knew how to treat the subject— ( Hear, hear.) The object of the Bill had been originally to include the city of London, so as to introduce one uni. form system of police throughout the metropolis. But the City had become alarmed at this encroachment on their privileges, and had applied the screw to the Govern. ment—(A laugh) —and had squeezed out of them every desired to include the City in the provisions of the Bill. Consequently the first fourteen clauses bad been expunged; and he wished to know why the Metropolitan Boroughs should be subjected to the provisions of this Bill. The vestries still possessed some remains of their former powers, but now every parochial constable was to be abo lished, and a police constable substituted in his place. Why was this system of centralisation to be everlastingly fixed on them ? Because the object was to place all power in the hands of a Government in which the people had no j confidence. He was sorry the Hon. Baronet had not divided the House. Mr. FOX MA ULE said, in answer to the objection of the Hon. Gentleman, he would merely state that the Police Aot for the Metropolis would expire this year. Captain WOOD bore t est i mony to the admirable con duct of the police force, and to the extreme diligence of the Commissioners in the discharge of their duties. He objected to the Bill generally, although he thought some of its provisions were highly necessary.—( Hear. ) What ground was there for superseding the unpaid magis tracy by the stipendiaries ? No complaints had ever been substantiated against the efficiency of the unpaid magis trates; and there were grave constitutional principles upon which it was highly desirable that they should be retained —( Hear, hear.) On these grounds he should divide the House against the second reading of the Bill. Mr. AGLIONBY said the measure to which the Gal lant Member who had just sat down, had objected, was in cluded in another Bill before the House (the Police Courts Bill), not in the present Bill.: Lord TE IGN M 0 UTH hoped his Gallant Friend (Cap tain Wood) would not divide the House against a Bill includ ing so many provisions, which had better be considered carefully—( Hear, hear)--and, he added, that if popular clamour were to be conceded to, the House might as well suspend its functions. —( Hear, hear.) The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed. METROPOLITAN POLICE COURTS BILL. On the Order:of the Day far the second reading of this Bill being read, • Sir BENJAMIN HALL said he should take the sense of the House against this Bill; to which, as to the one just disposed of, he believed public feeling decidedly opposed. This Bill would extend the jurisdiction of the Police Ma gistrates, who were to be increased to 27, over a circuit of , 15 miles round Charing Cross—( Hear,hear)—at a great additional expense to the country.—( Hear. hear.) The Government were to have the power of appointing these Magistrates, who were to receive salaries varying from 1,4001. to 1,7001. each—( Hear, hear)—with retiring al lowances of two-thirds of their salaries. Now, he saw no reason for this extension of Government patronage. If, however, the number of the Police Magistrates was to be increased, and their jurisdiction so far ex tended, it ought to be with other Magistrates than those who now occupied ,the police bench. And what ground could be urged for excluding from that concurrent jurisdiction which they now exer cised, the County Magistrates. The Report of the Committee upon which the Bills were founded had stated it would tend to diminish crime, and lessen the expense of prosecutions. This Bill gave the new Magistrates the power of convicting summarily in cases of larceny or steal ing from the person without violence, under the value of 40s. The returns of committals to Coldbath-fields showed a great increase of crime as compared with the returns of jury convictions. And both Sergeant Adams (the Mid dlesex Quarter Sessions Chairman) and the Chaplain of the House of Correction, had expressed their decided opinion against summary convictions ; the latter stating that it too often led to the corruption, by improper associa tions, of juvenile offenders; and the former, that summary convictions were frequently unjust, and in cases where !juries would have acquitted. Before such extraordinary powers.were oonsastsseekiro, asay — pionswitererfrostio' as.: certained that prisoners would -receive equal justice, as though th'ey went before juries- of their countrymen.-- (Hear, hear.) But there was high authority for saying that summary conviction was as evil, and an evil never to be incurred, except to prevent a greater—not on any ac count to be delegated to one magistrate, nor to less than two.—( Hear, hear.) And unless the police magistrates were of a superior class, it was a great injustice to the parties who were brought before them, and who were deprived of that trial by jury, the advantages of which were in this country so generally appreciated.—( Hear, hear.) He would not speak with unnecessary harshness of the present police magistrates. Many of them were highly qualified for their situations.— ( Hear, hear.) But some were utterly disqualified for their office, and no person could read the police reports without constantly seeing, with regret, cases which were merely the medium of putting forward idle and ridiculous jesting at the expellee of culprit or witness.—( Hear, hear.) And was it not a matter of grave doubt whether, on such per sons as these, additional powers should be conferred ? ( Hear, hear.) A most startling proposition in this Bill was, that any magistrate was to have the power of sending a priscncr to trial without the interven tion of a Grand Jury.—( Hear, hear, hear.) The pri soner ought to have every chance allowed him, consistently with the law. The Grand Juries were one of those insti tutions of the country which ought not to be lightly aban doned, even in the favoured metropolitan district. For all these reasons he should move, that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. Colonel SIBTHO RP seconded the amendment, saying that be did not approve of increasing the patronage of the Noble Lord (J. Russell), who had already more than lie could well manage, except for himself. There was no end to patronage, inasmuch as every officer, even down to the doorkeepers, were to hold office during the pleasure of the Noble Lord, who might discharge them without any cause. The Bill was full of expense—it was full of pa tronage and full of degradation to men who had conducted themselves well ; therefore, he thought the best thing they could do was to throw out the Bill, and so save the coun. try the increased expense which it would entail upon them. Mr. HAWES was glad that the opportunity had at last arrived when he would have an opportunity of de fending the Committee upon whose Report these Bills had been introduced. He was aware that throughout the metropolis they had been called unconstitutional and tyran nical—( Hear, hear)—and his Hon. Friend (Sir. B. Hall) had not only used but sanctioned deserve. ed homeharsh A s a l anguage Member respecting them that they did not for one of the districts of the metropolis he felt that he could not do his duty better than by sparing as much of his time as he possibly could in endeavouring t o i mprove die ' police of the metropolis for the protection of th e poor classes as well as the rich, but more partic u l ar l y t h e p oor er clauses, for property was more inse cure t h an than that of the rich.---( Hear, hear.) A good police upon a good sound principle was of much more importance to the poor than to the rich. The Committee of which he had the honour of being Chairman, to which honour he was not nominated by a political friend, sat for two sessions, as Chairman it was, he considered, his duty to obtain the best evidence in his power; he had done so, and had attempted but in vain to get adverse evidence. Through. out the whole of the proceedings of the Committee there had never been a division, although it was composed of gentle.. men holding all shades of opinion. The Report was con sidered line by line, he might almost say word by word ; it was carefully considered for ten days, and at last was unanimously agreed to. And he would take that oppor tunity of denying in the strongest manner that he had ever sat in that Committee alone, either taking evidence or doing anything else. Much objection had been taken to the increase of expense—be denied that th ere would be any increase of expense, for the Committee had recom mended that one Magistrate should b e ta k en from each office, and his salary divided among the other two, in order that they m ight be enabled to command th e b est talent for the office. But even though there had been an i ncrease of expense, he thought it would have been money well laid out, for the purpose of improving the administration of justice. Again it was objected that_ the M ag i st r ates were s t o he fi y t to superintend made dependent upon the for romliefe ;Seachrdetaifryt.lot, Surely who would not appoint them them as the Secretary for the Hoe Department, was .. ma t all times amenabl e t o that House ? who Then it was charged ag a i nst the Bill that it would increase the patronage of the Home Secretary— he denied i t ... 4 1 10 re were now twenty-sev en 14 1agistrates, and the Bill said there should be no more than 27. Was that increasing patronage ? The Bill did not g i ve the power than they now exerc i sed, perhaFs Magistrates more w ell defined the as to powers they uemmaryconvic tion—had illegally —it merely h might againi.Ten, considerednthatinththeegpraeiantte2r Iptahrtadofhethene exercise according to tion—had gentlemen w proved over an d over ea to which the Bill would a pp l y , the confinement h a d been much m It ch m ore extensive before trial than after convic tion, and it was recommended by the Committee upon the grou n d of a very strong recommendation of it by the Report of th e County Rates Committee, _alwhich had b een drawn up by the Right Hon. Member T for awOrth. Wi t hi n the last fi ve years it had been recom m ended by three Com mittees ofthat House, and one Commission. All the chimes of th e Bills were apparently harsh and stringent.—( Hear, hear.) Now, were Hon. Members aware th at nineteen twentieths of them were the law of the land at the presentenoment, and that the Committee had done no more than bring them all forward i nto one Bill, so that a man might know to what penal laws he was subject, a matter upon which very great ignorance prevailed amongst all classes? Any one who would take the trouble of looking through the Report would find the object was to cheapen, simplify, and expedite the administration of the land; and there was no recommendation which had not for its object the benefit of the poorest individual as well as of the richest.—( Hear, hear.) Sir E. KNA TC HB UL L supported the second reading of the Bill ; but he thought it could not be so well con sidered in a Committee of the whole House as in a Se lect Committee, to which he trusted it would be referred, on account of the great mass of business before the flouse.—( Hear, hear.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not think that these Bills ought to be referred to a Select Committee, because no thing would be gained by it.—(Hear, hear.) It would be better to refer them to a Committee of the whole House. There were two classes of persons for which a more strin gent provision of the law was required. One was pawn brokers.—( Hear, hear.) Thieving was carried on in a great degree by young persons who would not be able to dispose of the produce of their thefts if pawnbrokers were not in the habit of making themselves receivers. The other was the keepers of gaming houses. That evil was increasing year after year, and was one of the worst kind that could affect a community.—(Hear, bear.) He trusted these Bills would be allowed to pass. Mr. T. D UNCOMBE trusted the Hon. Member for Marylebone would not press his amendment, *as the Hon. Member for Lambeth had answered the greater part of his objections.—( Hear, hear.) He thought the details might be so arranged as to be satisfactory to all parties.-- ( Hear, hear.) Mr. F. M AUL E expressed his thanks to the Hon. Member for Lambeth for the clear and lucid manner in which he had explained the subject. The Bill which the country owed to him as chairman of the committee, he (Mr. Maule) could not easily express, and he was sure the country would be grateful for the pains which he had taken to amend the laws relating to the police._-( Hear.) Mr. WA KLE Y trusted the Non. Member for Maryle bone would not divide the House, but allow the Bill to go into Committee, as the feeling of the House was against him. There was one clause on which he wished make a remark. Whenever an opportunity offered for the intro duction of legal members into any office it was re e: for gotten, and these locusts were to be found eating the periwinkles in all classes of society.—( Laughter.) Why should they be bound to choose from barristers of seven years' wending when there were thousands as well or bettor qualified to fill the situation? This clause was most ob noxious in principle, and he trusted it would be rejected by a large majority. He also objected to the increase of salary, and should move that those proposed to be 1,0001. should be reduced to 8001., and the other from 1,4001. to 1,000/.—( Hear.) Mr. CLAY could not concur with the Hon. Member who had just sat down. No justice was so bad as bad jus tice, and it was incumbent on the public to give such re• muneration as would enable them to find such individuals as would discharge the duties in a competent manner. Certainly persons not belonging to the legal profession might sometimes be duly qualified to perform judicial duties. But such cases were unfortunately rare, and the judicially educated mind would generally be best qualified for the decision of judicial questions. He considered the Bill to be one calculated for preserving the liberties, as well as protecting the property of the public. Summary jurisdiction in criminal cases was much required. But in civil cases still more so. For numerous instances daily occurred in which the most flagrant injustice could not be remedied by the magistrate, who was obliged to refer the applicant to the expensive process of an action. For such cases the bill before the House afforded a prompt remedy, the absence of which tended much to breaches of the peace. He was not disposed to believe that in the enlarged juris diction of this Bill, the county magistrates could properly be permitted to co-operate. In the principle of the Bill, therefore, be entirely concurred. Mr. D ARBY said there were many provisions in the 811 l of which he highly disapproved. Especially did he object to the doing away, so much, with the trial by jury. Ho also objected to the provision for fining persons 51. in cases of felony. As to the summary jurisdiction provisions, they were all very objectionable. He objectedto the privilege given to a person summarily convicted, that his first con viction was not to be taken into consideration on a second conviction, as it would be, if convicted, at Quarter Sessions. He thought it would be better to send the B to a Select Committee. Mr. FOX MA UL E explained. Sir E A RD LE Y WILMOT thought it very inconvenient :hat one Bill should be alluded to in a discussion on a diffe. rent matter. He would address the Solicitor-General, who would recollect that he had brought forward a Bill empowering inferior Courts to reserve points of law for the decision of a superior Court. that Bill was lost in the Lords; and he would ask the Solicitor-General, into whose hands he had given it up, whether it would not be advisable to introduce it into some of these Bills. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the Judges, he understood, had given it as their opinion that this power did exist, but he would consider the suggestion of the Hon. Member. • Lord G. SOMERSET objected to, sending this Bill to a Select Committee, being of opidion that all the clauses ought to be discussed in the face of day. He hoped the Hon. Gentleman would not divide the House ; because, although he disapproved of many of the clauses, he thought it ought to go to a second reading. Sir B. HALL stated, that after all that had fallen from Hon. Members he should not divide the House. Mr. T. WOOD was sorry that the Right Hon. Ba ronet would not persevere in his Amendment. The Bill was then read a second time and ordered to be committed. SUMMARY JURISDICTIONS BILLS. On the motion for the second reading of the Summary Jurisdictions Bill, aiosykar-- , ,50MR416 1 4 trafd fits4ivlshed-to'_know why one of the provisions of the 13111 "rues for the purpose of disfranchising clerks to justices. It was throwing a slur on the most respectable men throughout the country.— (Mr. Fox Maule intimated that the clause would not be persevered in. )—Then he wished to know who put it in —and if it had been persevered in he should have di vided against the Bill. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that these clauses had not been introduced per injuria, and he thought that on the second reading, the principle of the Bill should be discussed, and the description of particular clauses reserved for the Committee. Mr. PRYME thought the Bill was exceedingly valu able, but objected to giving Magistrates a power of juris diction in felony without the intervention of a jury. Sir E. KNATCHBULL was glad to hear the respect expressed by the Hon. Member for trial by jury, and hoped he would recollect what be had said when he brought forward his motion relative to Grand Juries. He should vote for the second reading of the Bill, although he objected to some of the clauses, and should bring forward his objections in Committee if they were not altered. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL defended those clauses authorizing the frequent holding of petty session, and also the clause prohibiting holding sessions at public houses, which was the law in Ireland. With regard to the objec tion of the Hon. Member for Cambridge, if that were a good one, it was scarcely worth while to go into Corn mittee, as he considered that the clause giving Magistrates summary jurisdiction, in cases of felony committed by chil dren, was one of the most essential of the Bill. Mr. PRYME explained. Sir R. INGLIS objected to the clause calling on the Justices to make a rota. Mr. HEATHCOTE also objected to the clause. Mr. JONES said there were several boroughs cx. empted from► the jurisdiction of county magistrates, and he wished to know in what situation they would be placed by the provision of this Bill. He objected to the late hour at which this Bill was brought on. He never saw a more bungling affair than the present, and would recom mend the Law Officers of the Crown to look it over before pressing it to a second reading. He was opposed to the principle of the Bill. Mr. BRISCOE wished that a clause skould be intro duced, authorising magistrates to provide for expenses at Petty Sessions. Mr. DARBY objected to any further expenses being paid out of the county-rate. He disapproved of the Bill, and was certain that it would be impossible, in many places, to get a Petty Sessions every fortnight. It must depend upon the convenience of the Magistrates. Mr. WALLACE said he was surprised that any person should advocate holding sessions in public-houses. Sir E. WILMOT said most, if not all, of the clauses of this Bill would require alteration; but ho hoped the House would allow it to go into Committee, there to be fairly considered, for it really was most important that some measure should be adopted, to put an end to the contami nation of infant offenders by allowing their summary con viction.---( Hear, hear. ) Captain PECHELL strongly animadverted upon the holding of sessions in public-houses. As to the clerks of Magistrates, he thought that the best clause in the Bill ; and, if the Attorney-General abandoned that clause, then he (Capt. Pechell) would abandon the Bill—( A laugh)— for it was very important that the Justices' Clerks should be prevented f;om engaging in political elections. Mr. CHRISTOPHER objected to apecuniary fine for the commission of a felony in any case whatever.—(Hear.) The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed. Secondly,—You commit a greater blunder still—still a more criminal mistake ; because you exclude from co operation with you all the middle classes of society. Your Orators denounce the middle classes as the ene mies of the operatives. How can you be so foolish as to listen to these orators ? The middle class have the same interest in good and cheap government that you have. The middle class are much too numerous not to include an overwhelming majority of persons, who, in stead of sharing in the public plunder, are themselves the sufferers by that peculation and plunder in which the oligarchy rejoice. Nay, in truth, they are, al most totally, and certainly to a very considerable ex tent—identified with yourselves. An industrious and successful operative becomes at once a member of the middle class ; an unthrifty or unsuccessful middleman necessarily leaves his family to mingle upon equal terms with the operatives. The weight of taxation presses on the middle class with a comparatively equal pressure as it does upon the operatives. An immense majority of the middle class are excluded from the elective fran chise, and they could not obtain an extension of the franchise without its necessarily reaching the operatives. Why, then, be so unwise as to calumniate, traduce, and vilify the middle classes? They are the muscle and sinew of the political body—Ton may be the blood and bone ; but the combination of BOTH is essentially necessary to strength, and even to vitality. You do all you can to throw the middle classes into the hands of the anti-Reformers. Surely you must be enlightened enough to know, that there never has been a salutary alteration in the institutions of any country that was not brought about by the aid, and with the co-operation, of the great majority of the middle classes. And yet these are the persons whom your orators and leaders vilify and disgust. Thirdly,—Yon exclude from any co-operation with you all Reformers; whether of the aristocracy, or of the middle class, or of the operatives themselves, who do not agree with you in everything, and go the full length of your Charter. You are intolerant of any difference of opinion. He who does not agree with you in every thing is not allowed to agree with you in anything. You affect to look for liberty ; but you begin by establishing a tyranny over others. They must not dare to differ from you, else they are excluded and denounced. You do not by them as you would be done by, for you take roan them that freedom of mind which it is your boast to claim for yourselves. Fourthly,—There is another species of tyranny that has disgusted your friends and increased your enemies. You have refused to allow public meetings to be held for any purposes but your own. You have either oven powered by your numbers or confounded by your cla mour meetings held for useful, legitimate, and reform ing purposes. Moderate Reformers are not allowed to assemble to carry their own views into effect. You— the Chartists—controul and prevent them. A few vio lent persons can easily disturb and break up a public meeting, however well organized. The clamour of a minority can, at all times, prevent the speaker of the majority from being heard. Of this facility you have availed yourselves ; you have, in Birmingham, inter rupted a lecturer who discussed the horrors of war, or some other useful topic, to an audience unconnected with politics. In another place, the Chartists over powered a lecturer against the Corn-laws. This is a tyranny, which, of course, daily augments the number of your enemies, as of course it renders your success impossible. If the Legislature were to pass an Act prohibiting all meetings except those fa vourable to the dominant party in the State, every one of you would exclaim against the tyranny—the atro cious tyranny of such an enactment. And yet, with out law, you do precisely the same thing, and vitally disparage your claim to a participation in real legis lation. Fifthly,—Your orators talk sometimes disguisedly, and with caution, but not the less intelligibly, and at other times openly and without disofee, of effectuating your .purposes by physical force and violence. The oft repeated expression of one of your speakers has ac quired a proverbial familiarity, as well as the terseness of a proverb, "peaceably if we can, forcibly if we roust." Now, this is the extreme of absurdity and criminality. It conies literally within the law of high treason ; and if your strength were sufficient to create apprehension in the suind of the Government, many of the dupes of such doctrines as I have stated would incur imprisonment or transportation, or perhaps death ; especially when fol lowed up, as such language has bswn, by a recommenda tion to take arms. But these doctrines are absurdly criminal in another point of view. In the present com plicated state of society in England, there is nothing that could inflict such horrible misery upon the operative classes as a revolution by violence. The operatives five themselves, and support their families upon weekly wages. They have no reserve of stored pro visions or saved money. The only mode in which they can support their families is by the receipt of weekly wag, s. Suppose, then, you were successful in raising a sanguinary rebellion, the master manufacturers would of necessity be compelled to stop work ; all the manufacto ries would necessarily be closed ; wages would cease, and the means of p a yin g wages would be taken away. What could the hundreds and thousands of operatives, and the millions of whom their families are composed, do for provisions ? It is true, that they might subsist For a week or a fortnight upon the plunder of the other classes, and involve all those classes in equal misery with themselves ; but after that short period where could they find subsistence? After wages had ceased n plunder Lem exhausted, where could subsistence be found ? Ycs, success in your plans would produce the most unmitigated misery to yourselves ; and you arc embarked in a career in which, nnder the yretence of seeking redress of existing grievances, you would plunge yourselves into misery, indescribable and remediless. But you cannot possibly succeed. In any attempt at violence you would be opposed by all just and reason able operatives themselves ; by the middle classes, strong and vigorous, and abhorrent of any change that would endanger the social state ; by ell the power and wealth of the aristocracy ; by the concentrated force of the armed yeomanry ; and by the organization, skill, and resistless power of the entire British army. Sixthly,—See what an accumulation of opposition to tlie cause of reform you would create, if you were suffi ciently strong. You would make men tremble for their property, and therefore range themselves against you— you would make men apprehensive for their lives, and therefore hostile to your purposes —you would organize against you the wealth, the strength, and the intelli gence of the State—in short, if a vicious ingenuity had been exercised to find out the best method of prevent ing reform, it scarcely could have alighted upon any scheme so effectual as encouraging the doctrines of the torch and dagger, and physical force Chartists. I do not say these things to you in any spirit of hos tility or of anger. I say them in deep sorrow and niourriful regret. You have grievances which ought to be redressed. You have rights which ought to asserted and achieved. And if you would but listen to your former and your once successful leaders—if you would but follow their counsel, and aid their efforts— much - of what you justly complain of would be re dressed, and much of what you desire would be attained. You would be on the secure road to obtain the entire. See how many points there are on which we tho roughly agree. We agree that the elective franchise should be as extensive as is practically possible. We cgrce that the voters should be protected from tempta tion to corruption, and, above all, from intimidation, hr EVENING EDITION. --.......— f I the ballot. We agree that the duration o Parliarne‘‘ , should be diminished. We agree that the proper : qualification should be abolished. We agree that tb ~ ' representation should be by districts of equal popula. tion. In short, we agree upon all the groat essential! of a complete and satisfactory reform. We differ only as to the means of carrying out these principles. My experience has taught me that the most practical modes of success are those which are essentially peaee able and plainly constitutional. My reason tells roe that any other mode is essentially dang,,erous ; and my conscience informs me that any forceitble attempt is in its nature criminal. In plain truth, physical force could not possibly be successful, except in the event of the overwhelming ma jority of the nation being of one opinion on the subject of reform ; and if that majority were sufficiently nume rous to render physical force safe, it would also be sutii ciently numerous to render any violence unnecessary. If the topics which I have thus addressed to the Chartists of Birmingham have any influence over their minds, the period appears to have come when the ra tional and sober part of the operatives ought to separate from the men of violence and of blood ; and to rally round their old, well tried, and honest leaders, the Att woods, the Scholefields, and the Muntzes, and the other men who led them formerly to victory. Let a new asso ciation be formed. Let a fresh council be nominated ; let tile association come forward as the friends of " peace, law, and order ;" and as the harbingers of peace, of union—aye, and of success. Let me discuss with you the basis of suds an associ ation • First—dismiss the words " universal suffrage" fret! your political vocabulary; simply, because, vehile were the one hand they create alarm, they do not moon what the persons who make use of them really intend. The true meaning of the words " universal suffrage" le —that every human being should have a vote—females as well as males—minors as well as adults. Now, no body really intends that ; for even the Chartists them selves exclude from what they call " universal suffrage" —first, all the females, -although they compose /ono half of society, and although females are allowed to vote at the Eest India House in the disposal of the fate of one hundred millions of our fellow -creatures in the East Indies, and in the nomination of those who have the disposal of the public property, to the amount of millions in the Bank of England ; yet the Chartists exclude them—and properly exclude them—from what they improperly term "universal suffrage." Secondly—Chartists exclude from their "universal suffrage" all grown men of eighteen, nineteen, or twenty, although these persons include fully one-tenth of the male population of the country. Thirdly—Tice Chartists exclude from their " unit'er sal suffrage" all persons convicted of disgraceful crimes. Fourthly—They equally exclude all idiots and unatics. Titus, therefore, the " universal suffrage" of the Chartists is an expression not conveyin g an accu rate idea, and should be dismissed at once upon th tt account—namely, its want of truth. Let us substitute for " universal suffrage" other and truer words, namely, " household suffrar;" and let us see whether this sbbstitution be nbt absolutely necessary, or, at all events, highly useful to ascertain the district in which alone the voter should exercise the franchise. It is clear that a man should not acquire a night of voting by merely coining into a district—that a resi dence of at least six months should be necessary in order to qualify the voter ; that is, six months' residence in a house within the district, enabling the person who makes out the list of voters to identify the individual with a particular house or residence. Thus, there fore, the residence being essential to qualification, a particular house must be described as that in which the qualifying residence takes pktce. This is, therefore, a quality of the franchise strictly requiring the description of " household suffrage." Here arises a most important question ; whether household suffrage is to be limited to the occupier of an entire house ; or to be extended to several persons, each occupying in severolity part of the house. It is plain that it is equally household suffrage ; whether it is limited to the occupation of a whole house, or includes each separate part of the house. My answer, there fore, to the question is, that household suffrage, within the very terms, may include—first, all male adults who occupy an entire house. Secondly, male adults who occupy only a portion of a house, and who either are, or have been married, so as to come within the class of heads of families. Thirdly —all male adults occupying only part of a house, but having served a regular apprenticeship to any trade. This would include all operatives being journeymen, and fourthly, all male adults occupying only part of a house, but being teachers or professors of any science or branch .of learning. Thus, household suffrage, in this view, while it has the advantage of ascertaining the six months' residence of the voter, to be within the electoral district, world - include the two categories of male adults. First —those supposed to belong to the class of beads of families, ei ther by ocetryinge an entire house, or having married. And, sec..oriny—a class of individuals, qualified by the educated labour of apprenticeship, or the education of science Gzr literature. I respectfully submit to every intelligent and honest Chartist, that when I include in household suffrage all heads of families (whether occupiers of entire houses, or only lodgers) ; and all journeymen in trades ; and all teachers of literature or science—l go as far as die words " universal suffrage" could, for practical purposes, carry me. And, secondly, that until we shall have ob tained this my " household suffrage," it will be idle and ridiculous to quarrel upon the question whetter the suffrage should be carried further or not. Get this much first, and do not wrangle about the supposed residua, until you ascerttin whether practi-' cally there will be any. The second basis of the new association should be ballot —the honest ballot. Whoever votes by ballet, his vote is his own, and he can bestow it as he thinks fit. It is almost the only mode of securing egsinst cor ruption. It is, literally, the only mode of prevemtin intimidation. A third principle of the new association ought to be —fixed triennial Parliaments ; that is, Parliaments not liable to dissolution within the period of three years. Ido not, I confess, like annual Parliaments. The elections would be matters rather of impulse than of i mature selection. They would be too frequent acid too common to have that weight and that importance which '1 triennial elections would ensure. The fourth basis of the new association should be I the abolition of the property qualification. Any man competent to be an elector, should be competent to Ise elected. There is no property qualification in Scotland, or for the Universities. Why should there be a pro- , petty qualification in England or in Ireland ? I3esideS, what stronger proof can th ere be given that a man is qualified to sit in Parliament, than that he is the free choice of a free constituency ? Fifthly, The representation ought to be by electoral districts of, as nearly as possible, equal population. The present system is ledicroue. Some towns, with less than two hundred voters, have as many representatives as Birmingliem or Manchester. This absurdity ought to be abolished as speedily as possible. What I propose is this—that the old and faithful leaders of the people of Birmingham should conA forward and organise a new association —cell it by iliat name-, they phase—union, society, or club, or by the more • lengthened name of " Precursor of Reform Associostion." Let all that are honest and intelligent (and they must be numerous) rally round their old friends, and select, in addition to them, new ones, to manage their political affairs. Let not only die words " peace, law, auid order," be upon the banners, but let the spirit of peace be urdia their lips and in their hearts. Let good order regulate all their movements ; and let there be no violation of ' the law—save by their enemies. So shall they succeed. If they begin even with small numbers, let theni neither despair nor cease to agitate. Right, reason, and justice are with us ; and there is no magic in politics like having right and justice at our It is a monstrous , iniquity that the elective franchise should be in the bands of so small a proportion of the people of England. It is scarcely endurable that, in this great country, there should be a toaster class hay ing votes, and, therefore, by thearselvai and their re presentatives, making all, the laws ; and, on the other hand, a slave class, having nothing to do with the laws hut to obey them, and to suffer their pressure and in fliction. The Reform Bill has failed. It did not fjo far enough. It has created a capriciously-selected class of voters, obnoxious to intimidation, and liable to corruption. It has increased the bribery, the perjury, the villainy of the unreformed system. It is disgraceful to the country, and insulting to its people. It would have been already stripped of its abuses, and improved in its principlies, but for the diversion in its favour that has been made by Chartist violence. Reformers: of Birmingham, of every class, I address you. In your country's cause, listlessness and apathy are crimes. RefL2ct upon the advice I give you. It is not material from whom that advice ocmcs. It is mate rial to consider its nature and tendency. If you unite again, you will 'become certainly strong, and probably irresistible. If you continue in division, or sink int o apathy, y ou w ill d egra d e yourse lves, and injure your country. I have the honour to be, your faithful servant, Londun, May 30, 1839. DANIEL O'CONNELL. al th a t I.—Thc long intery LIVERPOOL, JUNE has elapsed since we had an arrival from New York is almost without parallel. The latest dates from that c i ty are to the 26th of April, received a fortntght age. Throe packets are now due, and the steamer Liverpool ha s a l so been Iota: teen d ays , nod most likely mill he the first ar rival we shall have; if so, she will iming news twenty-four days later than that last received. One of the patt e i:1 has been out thirty - two days, anc,th er twer , t ,., , p days, and the other nineteen (Ri, twenty _e CHRISTIANA, MAY 18.—The great PsTatienal Festival (the 25th (Anniversary of, th e C ons tit ut i eqn ) wa B celebrated in the u3ual manner, pith music, entertain melds, &c, BOROUGH COURTS BILL. On the motion of the SOLICITOR-GENERAL, the House resolved itself into a Committee upon this Bill. Mr. CRESWELL moved the introduction of a clause, prohibiting any cause being removed by certiorari when the sum involved is less than 501., unless secu r it y b e g i ven for costs, except by a Judge's special order. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL was inclined to think the clause was a useful one. Where was the benefit of local tribunals, if on every slight occasion causes might be removed to a superior Court at the option of the defen. dant ?—( Hear.) A slight discussion ensued, which ended in the clause being agreed to, after a division, on which the numbers were— For the clause Against it 1 Majority —5O The House then resumed. The Bankrupts' (Ireland) Bill passed through a Com mittee. _ _ COUNTY COURTS BILL. The House having resumed, On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EX CHEQUER, the follo,ing were appointed as a Select Committee on County Courts Bill :--Sir George Grey, Mr. Solicitor-General, Mr. Erle, Mr. Wood, of Middle sex, Sir Edward Knatchbull, Mr. Hawee, Mr. Miles, Sir J o h n Buller, Mr. Aglionby, of Cockermouth, Sir Thomas Fremantle, Mr. Handley, Sir James Graham, Mr. Wilbra ham, Sir Charles Lemon, Lord Viscount Barrington. In answer to a question from Colonel SIBTHORP, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he should give his notice on the subject of the Budget next week, when he should bring forward his resolution for the adoption of a penny postage. The other Orders of the Day baying: been disposed of, the House adjourned ata Quarter to One o'Clock. ,uenc e istincl 1 , -- e k to idyl' Law' - t ICI tO % . tbat have an gry' them ,ear.) ~- the aces 'dee d Toll ,- the 1 chi c na ua with ;1 - 4 1 . obli ionle i sr oh', , 1;11 1111