The Sun. — London, England, 1821-03-08 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT, HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 7. The SPEAKER took the Chair a few minutes before four o'clock. PETITION OF NATHANIEL. BROADHURST. Mr. JAMES presented a Petition from Natha niel Broadhurst, stating, that he was arrested on 4.:f:arge of high treason, which was afterwards ab.antdoned, dnd he.was tried for a misdemeanor, anti "sentenced to two years imprisonment in the where he is - now confined.--: Mr. BICRNAL thought that this Petition contained such a case, as it was the- duty of are House to investigate, espe cially as no one had pronounced any of its statements to be false,.accoording to Isis own knowledge. blr. WYNN.joistified his opinion upon the authority of the Noble Lord, the Reptereotative for Lancashire, confirmed by that of the Cimino/set of the Quarter. Soissions of Lancaster. Mr. HORNBY said., that from his own knowledge the cell's, in Lancaster-Castle, of which the Petitionercomplained, werre . peculiarly dry and airy: • Mi. JAMES asked, upon whit ground the Learni.d Gentle man on the thornr nodertook•to call those statements foul and calumnious, of the foundation .of which he could know no thint' Serjeant OfsIM..ONV said, that he spoke upon the' re presentation of the Noble Lord, and the Honourable Mem ber for Pr , .ston. Mr..I.AM ES declared that he knew some of the StateMents of the Petitioner to fie true of his own knowledge. For iso-• stance, a /titer addressed to hitu by the.,Petitioner, inclosing the Petition before the House, was,detained by the gaoler, a copy of that•letter only having been forwarded to'hins. • Mr. LAMBTON asked - his Noble Friend, whether it was his pritate opiuitio that the Petition before.the House should Out be allowed to lie Onthe Tahle‘ ? • • • • - Lord STANLEY replied, that it Kai certainly his intention to. oppose the printing of this Petition—(Hear, hear ! un the Ministerial Benches.) Mr. L Imß - roN obierred, that he conid easily understand 'the motive of those cheers with which ` the declatation of hii NAIe ml was received. But he could not help regarding it as monstrous doctrine, that a statement of great o ppression from - a prisoner should ilk be laid' on the Table of that HouSe, because it referred to a gaoler of whose character two or three of its Members entertained a faVourable impression, If any puler were chiti-ged 'with inhu.nmity 'by a prisoner, the charge should, in his view, be- itiVestigottiC in orderto do justice to the accused hiMself. He had a very good opinion of the gaoler of the County of which he had the honour to he a Representative, and yet if such Charges as the present Peti tion ctirotaineil were preferred against hint, he weiuld certainly be ass advocate for the reception and investigat' of -that complaint, But if a Petition coMplaining of oppression, especially by a - Prisoner, were' preterite& against the Repre sentative of the County; orq tit whole body of the Nlagist rates, be would cote for the reception of such Petition ; and when a prisoner coMplained of a gaoler,' and the rules of his prison, it might ha open that the very Mitgistrates or Members who declared in his fitiour; were partielto his alledged misc Ons duct. In this case, - the Petition was from an unfortunate prisoner; whose charaCter he did not ktiiow or care -shunt. But he WOuld'say of hith, as Lord Chatham's:l;4'ot IVilkes, that he neither cared' abour'his private character .or public principles, lint considering him as an English subject, pos sessittg rights` which' the las l Vgave him, 'and• the law alone could takeOway, he would resist any attempt to subject him to oppression. ' • . Alter some further Conreriatinn; in which F. Pal mer, Calcraft; •Creevey, and Bennet sp'olte 'hit. the Motion; Messrs.. Lushingtort, Mansfield, ilornby, and W. Bootle, against it, the House divided. Put. the Motion Against it . . . ROMAN, CATHOLICS. Mr. PLUNKETT btolight in a Bill far removing the 'disa bilities under which persons professing the Roman Catholic - Religion now labour. The Bill was read a Grst time, and' - ordered to be read a second time, on Friday, the loth of March. • Also a gill for regulating the intercourse betiveen persons ] in Holy Orders in the Catholic Church, and the Sew of Itoine. Mr:WYNNE presented •the'Report of the Cithirnittee for inquiring into the Rules fur Regulating the Orders of the. Day. Mr. RICE presented a Petition from Thomas Prendergast,: Esq: Cursiton- of thi'Coutt of Chineery in Ireland, 'against the Irish Court of Chancery Bill; as fat as it related to the °dice of Cursitur.—Ordele4 to_be printed. • AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. filr. CURWEN presented a Pet itioth from Wallington, com !darning of Agricultural Distress.—Ordm et! to he printed: Mr. CURTElS • presented a l'etition' from-the - Proprietors of 10,000 Acres of .Land, near Cm:Wield and Horsham, to the same effect.-LOrdered to be prioted. Mr. LOCKHART presented similar Prtitimis from North amptonshire and the Neighbourhood of Peterlueuugh.—Or derrd to he printed. Mr. WESTERN presented a Petition to the same - effect, from the Hundred of Dengle;-in Essex.' • • Mr. HOLM E SUMNER. postponed Isis motion relative to the Orphans' Fur d to this they fortnight. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Mr. LAMBTON wished to say a Lett words telatire to his 'twice of a motion for Pat liamentary Reform. It was his de, cided intention to bring it forward on the 10111 of April. The measure tie • shOuld then propose would he the 'Sante which he h d at first declared, namely, "The extension of the elective franchise to all householders rated at the anneal sum of 101. 'I he disfranchisement of all venal and decayed boroughs, and a return to triennial Parliaments." DAVISON'S PETITION. Mr. HOBHOUSE presented a Petition from certain inha bitants of the Cities of London anti Westminster. signed by upwards of 1000 names. The Petitioners• .complained, that the Petition of Thomas Davison, which mat presented to the House a short time ago, had not been read sir received by the House. They stated, that they underitood a Committee to be always sitting upon the administration of justice, and they prayed that the aforesaid Petition might be referred to that Cominittee: They further stated theirhlief, that, by refusing to comply wills their prayer the House wouldlessen whatever importance it might still ' have in the eyes of the country. • The Host. Member said, that as the Petiti on cote 7 taineol no reflection upon theecharacter of any individnals, he hoped no Hon. Gentleman would get rip to oppose it on that . I groond. Ile contended that this was the proper tribunal be• fore which cases similar to thepresent ought to be brought. Ile kneW that other tribunals were open, lout, as Mr. Horne Tooke said, so was the London 'Tavern. Otte Cotirts • of LaW were like a sign post of which he had heard, I tine out a road,but saying," all who cat' pay, may pass this war." The lion. Gent. then repeated his opinion, that ajudge might mit to possess the arbitrary power of calling what he pleased contempt of Court. He knew that it was said—would you have no Means of stop ?hog the torrent of blasphemy. or any other mischief which a Mau on hid defence may he disposed to utter ? But to that' he would answer, there certainly were means. In proof of which, he would take the liberty of quoting - what was said be the Attorney General upOn the alai of Carlile. It ran thus : "The defendant's object is to give cut reney to these calumnies against the Christian Religion. But I beg to state that those calumnies cannot be reiterated elsewhere; and I, shall feel it my duty to take immediate meitvires again s t any who shall become the publishers of this defence." Now this IfccoMplained' of the following, among other 4-i : es - awes :—That he' was confined for seventeen Otit siaf'twenty-four • hours, in a solitary 'damp (1631.1-eou, with a Stone door, and Which 'never had a . fi?ein it=-he was prevented from seeing the ne,w , papersthat - all letters - to and from him weroperted by the gaoler, and some of theth wi-filieltland that having been educated in I%dit l arian • prineiples, a friend sent' him three numbers - of a theOlogiCal work , written on those principles, Which had been withheld from him.- . -- Thsa - e_ one day one . of the keepers 'came to him, without any cause, to remove 'him into closer con . fin'ement, in a part of the prison called " Vie - Ditch ;" that upon his remonstrating, h? was struck and knocked down a flight of !,f*;)s, and that - the - turnkeys" then violently seized 'him, and forced a pair of fetters on I,il leg• which injured - his ancles, and . obliged him to send for the surgeon, who ordered the fetters to be changed and that he stifiered under this torture for sixteen days ; and that he was stinted of his allowance because he refused to work-H-.notwithstanding that foriu ing no part : of the sentence passed on him—by the rules of the priscat,,lishich allowed only one pound of bread a-day - 14 - prisoners who did not work. The Hon. Member proceeded to observe, that us faras he could learn, the Petitioner had re ceived this treatment from the Magistrates and the keepers of the Castle, because he was what Mr. Pitt once professed to be, and what Lord Castlereagh . appeared to have been up to thn u.iorrient Of: his entrance into.office—a, Reformer. -(Bear, hear '.)—Be that as it might, it was highly improper, it. was unjust, it was illegal for any gaoler to open the letters, and pry into the private - correspondence of his prisoners.. The Magistrates he would contend, could have no power to make. an order . , for that purpose; it would - be unjust and improper even in the Legis lafdre to pass_an.A. - Ct vesting such powers in any person. That it was, however, exercised by the . gaoler in this instance, he could assert of his own knowledge, for he.opened a.letter of his,, which was .sent to the prisoner, marked " private ;" and the Petition, which the prisoner sent to him had lasci been opened by that person, as well as the letter of the prisoner Accompanying it. Mr. 11O1tNBY, as one of the visiting Magistrates at the prissin altuded to, felt himself called upon'to say aim words upon the subject of. this Petition. But first, he thought it due, to himself to state, that he was not ont,of the Magis trates who approved of the unfortunate transactions at Man chester, having, indeed., finite a'contrary impression. With . respect To the Petition it, was right tostate,t hat the rules com plained of •by the Petitioner, were sanctioned by two of the .Judges. Ile himself was one of those who. disapproved of . the rule excluding all newspapers from the prisoners; but he. wpis_ opposed by the majority of the Magistrates, whose (led; s;.)u was approved by that humane constitutional Judge, Mr. Justice ,Bailey. Agaiuit that rule, therefore, he, although Chairman of the Sessions. felt &his duty to make no objec tion. As. to _the, Petitioner's complaint about the rule with regard to wink, he was prepared to maintain, that reform,he iris one of the malt - objects of imprisonmeUt, it was better t+itb that vie:iv to ewploy prisoners in some branch of indus. try, than - to allow them to spend their time in listless illaC• ti, it!, and yet nu piisoners were compelled to work in this prison• but such as received the county allowance. The re stri.:tions as,tocommunication by letter he thought necessary for. the purpose of securing the safe ctistody of prisoners, by guarding against any contrivances out of doOrs to prOmote the escape. But with regard.to the character of the Gaoler t his, prison, hr could declare from personal knowledge that he was a most humane and firm man, whose removal from his sitolstion would be a set ions grievance, even to the prisoners : . . . _ Here the Petition was hronght up and read Itv the Clerk. 1.tp70 Site motion that it should the table, Lord STANLEY said, that Lie felt it unnecessary to add snaol to what had been urged by the Chairman of the Quar tci 'Sessions at L'ancaster (Mr. Hornby) • . But yet he thought it right to say that he never saw any thing wrong in the con duct of the Gaoler of Lancaster Castle. This was the third time %baton:fleet . ..had-been complained of in that House. The first complaint was contained in a Petition, Which *as refer red to a Committee, and fron t the inquiry that' followed, it :appeared that there were some trifling faultS intim conduct of ;Lei -priaop„ none of which, however, were attributable to the GapOr hinr,elf. An individual now came forward to reflect asison.this Gaoler, but it became the House to consider whether it• wHnld make itself 'a party to such reflections by rattling iniathe present Petition; tome of the statements in which isere'false, vetite:others were garbled. The Petitioner was rerrioYed froth'4lLe place where he was originally confined, at- the request of his own fellow prisoners, and the scia tic with the Turnkey was iu consequence of Petitioner's re sislatice to t bat removal. lie was, be declared, as unwilling rs6.nny man to prevent prtititiiis front being received, but coosafering the present petition as a libel upon the Magis• Crates as well as upon the Gaoler,'he would resist the motion fur tayinK it i,rt flit- Table, lest it should br printed. . '4r. H, SUMNER stated, be was one of the Committee to whom a f.,riner Petition complaining of the misconduct of this Gaoler was referred, anti be recollected that the highest • testimonies were on that occasion borne to the character of thjs's4ficer. The Hotionrable Nlernher suggested, that if the Petition were-at all laid on the Table, it would be printed in the 4ournals without any special order fromi he House. 5 7 AWTHORS;E spoke in . favour of the Goalkr i but we cunid not distinctly hear hint. .Sirlkt. WILSON took occasion to ask his Noble Friend whe th,r fie kOew what be stated, to be true, from his own per- Gourd. knowledge or if not, from what source he-derived his illorTation ? The Gallant, officer deptecated the idea of reje c ilo 4 of th s nature in so thin a Huh" , the I+.4i/iiiti'ers' then present living nut more than 90, while there syr.celifttly'(lo.o e who ought to be made acquainted with such a petillop. Ll,rd STANLEY replied to is Gallant Friend,l,hat he did not know of his own knowledge what he had stated to the !louse, but. that. be knew it from seeing a written statement ' upon the subject from the Surgeon of,theprison. " Mr-Serjearit ONSLOW declared, that after the statements wbitb the House had heard from local Magistrates with re ;wet to the conduct and character of the Gaoler alluded to, thp . statement of the petitioner must by deemed a foul and inh ealuiony, whith ought not to be circulated with the sauctriniim hat House. - fir H r . WILSON observed, find testimonies equally high, and even afore contirlent, had Geer ,horse in that House to the conduct and character of Governor :kris, who waS still indis putably prored, to the conviction of all parties, to be a con firmed .knave and tyrant, I-101111613A said, that be linew something mif this Mr. Higgins, the Gaoler. for sour !hue ago, a petition was trans witted. to hint.to be. presented, to that Howse. from seven or eight prisoners, who complained of his misconduct ; but after lie received this petition; some of the parties by whom it was signed wrote to him not to present it, bet-wise, as they stated, ,sotnerliftlie County, Magistrates had rectified the matterscom plainest of. t'rw - o this circumstance it appeared, that' this Gaoler Was not-deserving of the unqualified panegyric which lie !sad received from certain Members, as he had been guilty of (ab l ts which the County Magistrates found it necessary to co , rect, and from that. circumstance also it might be inferred, that it was possible this Gaoler might commit oibej - fgalls. . . Mr. LOCK!' ART deprecated the doctrine of the Minour f',:e Member fixr Surrey, that that House, by receiving a corn plaint of oppression from any Petitioner, made itself 1 party to lust coutplaiat, it E r u the charges ;licit it imputed, for, proved that there were means to prevent the dissemination of Whatever bright be spoken by a defendant in Court ; that a man tinder - such circumstances should he exposed to the' exercise of such . a . power was against all reason and hu inanity. chey ought rather to throw a shield over him, so as to give him the 'confidence of being at perfect liberty.— The Hon. Member referred to a late case at the Surrey Ses— sions, wherein Mr. Harrison, he stated, who acted as Chair man of the 'tench of - Magistrates, said to a person b e f o r e thv Cotirt, " Sit doivti,' or utie you." With respect to wh i, t was called failitical libel, it was observable that the defence generally aggravated the charge. This was shown very strongly upon the late trial of Mr. Hunt, the prOprietor of the Examiner Newspaper. That Gentleman Was charged with _publishing a Ebel upon the House of Comm o ns.— He made a deteuct, in which he described the House as a corrupt House, - in terms much stronger than those contained in the Paper under prosecution; but. even in that case the Judge did not fine the' defendant fur aggravat ing the Original chai-ge. It was to be reinembered also, that there was always a Moral restraint upon conduct like that of the 'defendant's in goestion; fur they were invariably con victed, so that this summary punishment for cunt mpt was ob jectionable, even upon the score of nece s sity. With respect to the observation that the Judges had decided the legality of Davison's case, he (Mr. H.) was not disposed to give much weight to that circumstance; for it should be recollected,that the Judges were deciJing their own power. But it Might hr said, " Will rot set up -your opinion against that of Chief Justice Alitn,tt ?" CertiOnly he would set up his own opinion against I o,mo.lodge Alibutts, if he thotight they wet e wrong. The opinions of ;fridges were nut gospel, and there was too much reason in some cases to doubt tbeiropinions. Lord Ellen, borough had actually laid down, that that Paper was a libel whirl, hurt the fe . elingS of his Majesty's Ministers; and lately he himself heard it said in the Court of King's Bench, that it was not_ certain that the mere writing of a libel,wat not a crime, even though pulilicity Were not Kiser to it. In his osvn case tun (if the tiouse would perniit him to refer to it), be heti; d .Mr.Justiee Rest say, that the Writ of Haheas Corpus was not demand:o.le as a matter of right, and in atppott Ut /111 i CIUCtiiIIC tl:e Learned Judge quoted Blackstone," When from the admission of %nth dottrinc, another proposition he (Mr. H.) got Iron). (lie . wOuld not say where that hume would naturally follow, that if the House received the coin- was), he consulted Ittack4one, and. found that the case re plaint, and iustitutrd an inquiry upon the subject ) the ease fey red to by the Learned Judge, in support sit his doe would be referred tska pat tial tribunal. The Learned Gent. trine, was the case of three Spanish prisoners of war, concluded with stating, that lie would h e an advocate" for . the who applied for the Welt of Habeas Cot pus, and wiry reteption of any Petition couched in decorous language, at!; refused it ; becanse bring alien eneinies t they were though, if it contained any Oily.; like ealinnoty,,he wouls4 nut , n o t entitl e d t o the rights of Englishmen : ru that the , agree to have it printed by order of the Home . passage led to an inference direttty• opposite to that Mr. C. W. ‘VYNN deelarcd'that ho could not seethe pro-' which bad been • drawn by the Learned Judge. : On pritty of allowing a Petition to lie on the Table, which the late discussion, too, of Davison's case its that House, was pronuunerd, by good authority, to contain false stair- the Learned Solicitor-General troid that all the cases stunt ments. _ _ _ by.him bad hero sowed on the,argument of Davison's case in the Court of King's Bench; whereas, ii, tact, with one solitary exception, tome of those cases were ,quoted its that argument. Ile. merely stated these _circuits- 'stances to sliew that Judges and other Lawyers were fallible, like other men. In bringing forward subjects like the pre sent; he cared not what !moires were attributed to him. •Much• might be said by. Hon. Gentlemen opposite about our ancient Institutions but he-would tell them that be respected those Institution's as strongly as they. But it was 'Certain that we hatl imlifical Lawyers,-who by passing through the rat-trap of the Justiceship of Chester, were advanced to the Bench, and because political Judges. They defetoled the jolts of the day; hirit was -natural to remember one's Creator. He admitted that it was homan nature; but in watching the administration of the Laws; it-was proper to take this nature into account. It was very true, that we could not go to .a Judge, arid offer bins five guineas, as -we. ought- its Florence: but we had instances of political cooduct.in Judges much too strong for us to shot our eyes antainst. The Honourable Member concluded by moving " That the Petition should be brot4 lit up." Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW said, that as the, House would be occupied pun a subject of the very 'fitst itopto tatter, of-which (hie notice had been given, he should speak upon the present question very shortly,- although. the -Hon. Mover had takers a wide field of observation. He appeared to thick himself able to teach the Judges law, antqpia haps wontd begin to teach the Bishops religion. . The case of Darison;th , foundation of the present Petition, had been very I'l'll4l4,mile arg first the Court of King's Ilench ' and the power ear:else-it by the consinittito , Judge had been decided to have 'been pr.-perly exercised. It therefore was but proper its the House 'to reject. Davison's Petition, which attempted to torts that.Hou-e into a Court of Appeal, 'especially as the Learned Judge untitled to had to proceed upon the Northern Circuit ; and the reception of the Petition by that 'House would have created an unfavourable impression against him. He had not looked into the .direct Ant horilies on this subject, but he never understood the right complained of to he ever qm•stioned. The circumstance of there being no recorded instance of the -exercise .of such a power was-not conclusive , for such an instance wooltTpro lushly not appear in the Reporis unless - the tight were ques tioned. -In the case of Stone, who was.tried for. high treason, and acquitted, a roan was fitted for making a disturbance iu the Court. If every blasphemer wire permitted, as in the case of Davison, to disseminate his: ',Oniony in a Court of Jostice, front whence they would find their way into the .pub lie prints, a prosecution of the Newspapers giving publicity ' to those opinions would call for the usual imusber of eulo gloms on Ilse public press. With respect to the-prayer of-the petition, he should only observe, that it wasnot usual torefer such a petition to the Committee, unless it was intended to' convey a censure upon the Judges. Mr. WYNNl..:thou4lit.that as the Petition coMplained alert ly of the state of the Law, there could he no objection to hearing it; and if it contained merely a respectful complaint, it might be received.' • He was sorry the Hon. Member had made a speech-full of charges against • the .Judges.and other individuals who had 11U means of defending themselves.— (Hear, hear!) Mr. HOBFIOUSE , said; the only expression in the Petition which might be called-exeeptionable .was-t 100, The Petitioners stated that they had heard the decision of the House," oit It regret." He trusted no objection would he taken to su.:ll expression, which.. Was very natural.: The Petition was then brought up and read. Itststrd the regret "(the Petitioners at the rejection of Davison's Petition, especially as the subject was of great importance. They thought the power in ques tion ought not to be entrusted:to a -single Judge. .They re- . grated especially, that this Petitiou had been rejected„ in asmuch as they had beard that - the Htinourable -Nlemiter who - presented it said it contained no language. disgrace. fail to the House.. They feared .that if an opinion .went abroad that the House was disinclined to receive the Pe •• titioris of the People. it would lose that portion of the importance• which it still-retained and t bey cvnel Udell by expressing their disinelinaf .to take op the•time. of the. Hotise by unnecessary observations, seeing that that tinat:' 'was occupied ins providing ways and means for the payment of a Standing Army of 92,000 turn its time.of peace, and the pay-v ment of Pensioners arid Officers of the. Crown. ~ • Upon the question "That the Petition do lie on the table," Mr.--1408HOLISE and Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW Mutually explained. Mr. WYNNE said, that the Petition be imagined could not , he reerived;as it remarked upon the debates of the House. It spike-of the pledge given by the fun. Member for Notting ham, that the Petition contained no disrespectful language. He wished on this. subject to he in ;mused by the Chair.. The SPEAKER said; that undoubtedly cases had occurred of the rejection of Petitions which contained remarks open' the debates of that House. Mr. I4OBHOUSE then said, that he should of course yield to the authority bf the Chair, and beg to wit hdraw t Pet it itor, -that another might he presented without the ,objectionahle passage. He wished to know whether the objection was tnetely formal. . The SPEAKER observed. he could• only say, that the Peti tion was inadmissible, because it coutrueot ea on the debates of the tionse. Mr. DENMAN said, that before the present Petition should , be withdrawn, be begged to offer. a very.few words.. Had tlie House received Davison's .Petition, it would not have been troubled with the present. The rejection of a Petition nrs. , read was -unprecedented, 'supposing the Petition to contain matter for proper intet ference, out the part of Abe House. He thought that House the potter :place for inquiring into the conduct of the Judges, and he trusted another Petition would be presented. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that if the Petition of Davison was a proper one for the consideration of the House, it was the fault of the Hon. and Learned Member who presented it, that it had nut beets received. He (Lord C.) understood it to complain of the conduct of a Judge, and not tube the basis of a remedial law. If that; or any other petition, wire fur art alteration of the law as administered, he would strain a point to receive it, in order that the. question might be raised. Mr. DENMAN and Mr. WYNNE explained. Mr. SCARLETT said that the House was the only tribunal to which Davison--could possibly apply for realest. No ap peal lay to any of the Courts of Lass' its. respect of .a commit ment for contempt ; and if there-fore Davison 'could riot tails redrew - from the House, be could not obtain it at all. The ATTORNEY GENERAL contended that the case of Davison bad been- fully examined by the Court of King's Belle') upon a motion for -a new trial. •Mr.SCARLETT explained. The Petition was then with drawn. A motion for the considerations of the Claims of the Ame rican Loyalists was postponed. • -AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. Mr. Gooch rose, in pursuance of his motion, to bring forward his motion for a Select Com mittee, to inquire into the -present distressed state of the agricuiturai.interest, with a view of aster taining .whether, any ~or what relief could . be, granted. He hoped, should the motion be:ac ceded to, that Hon. Members would go into ,the . .Corntaittee.unfettered by any restrictions. It was always with. very great diffidence, and .eves with pain, that ,he obtruded himself on the. House ; yet, on the 'present occasion, he felt himself called upon by an imperative sense of duty tO,the country at large, no less than to that class for whom he appeared .as the humble advocate.-- (Hear, hear !)—Yet he could not help wishing that duty had devolved upon more able hands.— The preSent question was not one of party, it disclaimed all party feelings ; and he was very happy to perceiye that there was a disposition on both .sides of the House, to treat it upon the broad principle of its own merits, And here he could not forbear expressing his hope that an Hon. Member op,posite, distinguished for his profound knowledge of political economy (Mr. Ricardo, we presume) would suffer the, question to go to the Committee without imputing any motives to those who supported it, .hostile to the interests of particular classes. For himself he considered the agricultural and commercial in terests so interwoven and blended with each other that they «•ere inseparable. It was quite im poisible that one could exist without the co existence of the •other. Rut at the same time he must say that he consideeed' agricultur'e ,the basis of the whole waalth of the empire —it was upon that that the , superstructure of our na tional prosperity must-be raised.—(Hear, hear !) If ever there was a time when distress prevail ed among the farmers,- and called loudly for re lief, it was the present. No less than 100,000 petitioners had come before the House to make their appeal ; and he would say of the petitions, .that_lhey.had not. like others- been got up by -ar tifice and undue expedients, but had been freely ,signed by men who formed what he would call , the very heart's blood of the nation, the Yeomanry, a body of -people whose ,proper demeanour and loyalty had at all times, been most conspicuous. lie would say that if the greatest enemY, o f the country would wish it to be inflicted with the greatest curse that could fall upon it, he could not desire a heavier one. than that the petitions of so truly valuable a part of our fellow citizens should go unnoticed anii neglected by .the house. An -opinion- was-advanced by a right lion. Gentleman whose judgment he respected,_that the distress of theAgricultUrists was owing, in a great measure, to the superabundant crops of last year, Which brought a glut of- Corn - into the market. To this opinion,.,however; . he'Ol'i...G.) could: not accede. He could state iron; hiS own knowledge,that.in Carribridgesliire Stirolk, Norfolk, and Essex, the part of the country ; with which he was best ac quainted, that the crop of corn was very deficient. lie was, ready, to admit that there had been a superabundant .crop of, barley, and . hence there was an increased consumption of malt. Some: further relief was necessary to the landholder, and that speedily, if it was intended to ,save the country from absolute ruin. —(Hear hear.)— From the Corn Laws as .they now existed he could ex pect no remedy; Some how or other their machinery did not- work. well. The warehmiSing system he particularly objected to. Those who we' re not practical farmerS (and he : could not say that he was one to any great degree), were not aware of thebardshiPs and difficulties which fartnersex perienced. lie could not avoid behig deeply impressed with a sense. of what they suffered, when he saw them endeavouring to keep poor labourers, in . eniployment rather than throw them an the parish, though the means they had for 'doing so were nearly quite exhausted. It usually happened, that there were in the ware , houses about 500,000 quarters of grain, and when the corn Was it the remunerating priCe, the cOn sequetiCe was, that thernarket being thrown open, the farther rushed into it at Once and caused a glut, which brought down wheat to 50s, and 60s. a price-so low that Jilin must necessarily ensue, lie would only ask fdr the agriculturists that protection, fo ,whiCh they were so well en titled, from the value they Were of to the State. The lion. Member then read certain items, Showiiig, dill the proportion of the Pro perty. Tax paid by the agriculturists had - been . 6,473,4751. annually, While the proportion paid by the tradinvand commercial interests had been only 2,000,0001. Land, as . contrasted with othe'r"Propeety, paid to - the revenue in the pro portion of three to one. He would again say that something . must be done, unless We 'Were to be Teducedio What . 11nonaParte called a nation of shopkeepers. It was very clear, that- things , could •notgo on in their present - state. lie hoped' the House would not blink the question, but 'would take it . np,itt the Manner which its great _ importance required. It was not for him to:say What remedy would be best, but the country was .not in so bad a state but some remedy:might be devised. The Hon, Member concluded, by moving that the several "petitions presented to this, iouse complaining, Of agriCtiltural distress, be referred to a Select "Committee, with instruc- 1 tiOns to report thereon. Sir EDWARD Ic..sATchauct., in seconding the motion, observed; that no blame could be attri buted. to the Ministers of the Crown, far every .Petitien forwarded to them had met every con sideration. ReferriiK to the supposed jealousy of :the 'Mercantile...interest upon the present question, the lion. Baronet stated, that all that the Petitioners asked was an ' inquiry., • So 'great Was the diStress of - this. branch of society, that the POor Rates ,were frightful in amount, and - there appeared a 'general, predisposition to .pauperisth. This diAress was felt even by the tradesmen of the metropolis, for they could not obtain pay ment of their bills. The :Principal complaint was' the pre - sent mode of taking averages, whirl' were, So - taken that *a "nornitial was returned in stead of a sUbStantial amount of the prices. He would state an insfance of 'distress within his own knowledge, which would shew that the dis treSs was not .exaggerated. En . five parishes within one district, no less thin 3000 acres of land had been given up in very short Space - of time, so that whatever might be the difference of opinion as to the cause, the distress itself, he believed' could not be - denied. Great, indeed, had been the diversity of opinion as to that cause, and his own opinion should therefore be offered with diffidence. He thotight it not attributable to the resumption of Cash Payments, but to' an ,excess of production co-operating with large im portations of foreign corn. After * some other Observations to the same 'effeCt, the Hon.' BarOnet entreated the House not to suffer itself to . be drawn into a protracted discussion as to the cause of the distress, but rather - apply itself to finding a remedy. ',upoij that subject it . certainly was not for the Petitioners to speak with confi dence, though they might not improperly state their own views. With respect to the motion of the Right Hon. the Chancellor Of the Exchequer for expediting the return to Cash Payments, lie should only obseive, that although he thought .we ought not to retrace our steps 'oh that subject, a reduction. of eipence might be made with the most .beneficial effects. The Honourable Ba ronet went on to state, that whatever diS cussion might 'arise - upon this question, he hoped it would conducted. With — that temper and candour which could alone sure adequate justice being done to - it in that House.' This was the only spirit• in which it could be conducted likely to be beneficial to the country.. With regard to the point of taxation, he . certainly thought it' ought to be open to the con sideration of the Cemmittee; On 'the subject of - the Corn Laws' he' begged to gate, that he did not think the present spterri with - regard to theM ought to be changed. lie trusted that whatever' views might be entertained by the Committee or by the House on the subject of the distresses of the country, that they would not take any steps either from notions of justice or expediency, in violation of the public faith. Whatever means of restoration the Committee might think fit to recommend, he hoped they would steer clear of this. If the country was involved in difficulties, on the part of the Agriculturists he was prepared to state that they were willing and ready to bear their share of the burdens of the State ; but they were not contented to bear them exclusively.— (Hear !)—He could not help adverting to some observations - promulgated out of the House, but which he had heard repeated and advocated within those walls relative to the National Di bt. It had been stated that the landed property of England Was . o mort , ragemortgaged`for the Nati o n a l Debt. From this statement he most - beg to express his entire dissent. That the property of the country might be involved in the payment of the National Debt, he was willing to allow. It was also stated, from the same source, that a large proportion of the poor lands were thrown out of cultivation by the present system. Ile admitted that by the present system, the Poor Lands were, as matte - r of course, thrown out of cultivation ; but Iti . 3 opinion was, that the rich lands were also thrown out of cultivation. It had been said, that the abandonment of the tax upon agricultural horses would be a good measure of rc lief. lie did riot agree in this opinion, and he was sure, from the opinions the subject he had collected, that the farmers in general did not con Sider that tax as a grieVance. Froth the same source to which rp_ r had before adverted, it was advocated that some fixed protecting duties-should be placed .upon foreign Corn. In the first place, he deprecated the indiscreet zeal of those who advocated, lhiz opinion, and in the seeond, lie held an opinion decidedly opposite. lle thought nothing could be more injurious to the country than a positHe fixed duty upon Corn. In allusion to a Bill fOr regulating tire averages, in which it was propoied to include the Irish Corn, he thought that if proviAons could be carried into effect, it would he an essential point gained in favour of the far mer.; but he did riot think that that alone woleht be sufficient relief. With respect to the Corn Law tie should prOpOse a small addition to the average price of Oats—and that was the only alteration he should propose .to make to the law of 1515. 'He Would propose that, a graduated scale of Duties upon Foreign Corn should he esta blished, varying in proportion to the prices of 'British Corn. These were all the propositions he had to make on the subject of Corn. In ask ing for the Comtnittee, the House would recol lect that the* iv'ere asking it on of a class of indiViditais which, freim their sufferings, an.d their exemplary conduct 'under those suffer:rigs, .were most deserving of their attention and cart , ; and, at the same, time, that the state of Up.: country was such as required the hest exertion 4 - uf - the Committee. He was sore that the Britisit Parliament - would not fail to give the Petitioners l'that attention wh . ch their wants required, and convince them that they - did 'not look - to that House for relief in vain. The lion. Baronet,Who delivered himself in so low a tone of voice,,as ZP make many of his observations inaudibl* in the Gallery, - concluded by p a yin g a b:i4is compliment to the Agricultural Classes in genera?, for their exemplary conduct under their distresses, and seconded the motion. Mr. F. Itorttssos obseived, - that the situatconi in which he was placed, not only with referemfe to the department 'which he had the ho nour fill, but from the manner in which he had heretofore been connected with the question" now before the House, would' plead - his excuse for offering himself to its attention at this earl! period of the debate. When this topic was in troduced last year by the Hoa. Member for Surrey (Mr. H. Sumner), he had stated the grounds ors which he then thought it expedient t o c om ply with the proposition. He objected to the propv shian because, whatever was th e distress that existed - , or was alleged 'to existi he did' not thin 1 it, attributable to the - defect of the law ; and he likewise held,upon general-principles, that wit hotrt some distinct view of the'evil, and some specific remedy to bring forward, it would be trucri'se interfere with - 'the 'subject. If it were said that on, jections like these might be 'urged - at all times, he must reply that the question here affected the interests not only of large classes, but of the whole community, and (tat considerations feeling as well hs policy (algid to be admitted into all inquiries of this kind. What might upon en larged views of general policy be advisable at o:: e moment, might at andthar, under peculiar cir cumstances, deserve' no 'countenance at (Hear.)—lt • Wbuld be strange, however, if al' Y' man should hear the itatements of distress Ns"b,i cac had been made —statements not perhaps strictly correct, and to the uniVerSality of which ire must object=-but still he must say that the man who could listen to them, and remain insensible, must have a mind strangely composed—(Hear.) —The Petitioners had, he believed, seen tim force of these objections, and had been reconciled to th, , - expediency of postponing the consideration-et the subject. In agreeing to the present motion, for a Committee, although he was pursuing. A course inconsistent with that which he had before adopted, he did not conceive that he was sub jecting himself to repreach, or doing that for which he need feel any shame.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—With regard, then, to the objects to which the attention of the Committee ought to be directed, he had no wish to restrain it froo any financial inquiries, and he had the satisfac tion to find, from the speeches of his two lion- Friends, that with reference to two subject s which had been antecedently discussed,Ft was not proposed to advert to them, and that neither was it in contemplation to disturb the laws rela tive to our currency, or to look for relief through the medium of any operation on the public debt. On the subject, then, of taxation, as he had al ready intimated, he did not object to this being brought within the scope of the intended inquiry. Before the Committee decided, however, that the 'principal or the only relief-was to be derived from this Source, he hoped they would consider how far this decision might affect public credit. They would