The Sun. — London, England, 1803-05-21 00:00:00

on the general discussinn with the French Minister, and it was in this respCl pretty sitnilar to what'had passed on many other Subjetisa in which there was no total denial of satistaftion, but an evasion on the part of France instead of satisfaCtion. Mr. SHERIDAN be thought now what he had asked most extremely material information forahe House,_ that he was the more convinced of it, since he had heard the 'observations of thesNoble St CR ETAKY of STATE, .alll.l. therefore, Ile moved, " That an humble Address_: be presented to His . Majesty, praying, he will be graciously pleased to give direClions for laying before the . House an ac: count of the man ner i n w hi c h Lord Whit Worth's representation was received by ihe French GoVern.. mem, On . the subjeCt of their not haVing,withdrawn their Troops from the Batavian Republic." • Me CHANCELLOR - of the EXCHEOUER 'a „ id, he hoped the HOn. Gentle Man would not per. *hi in his Motion, under a distina understanding that if .the Documents Wwhich it referred, were Mich as might be produced, they should be laid be fore the. House on Monday next, for he would not, have it be imagined that 'because there had been rio communication upon this subject, it therefore hadriot been under the consideration of Govern. Meta. Nor was it to be so concluded, because there might be no communication upon that subjeCt froin my Lord Whit Worth. Government had also a Minister at the Hague, and he had the best reason to owed that the French Troops should be-with. draOin froin Holland just before the moment on which His Majesty's Messar ae came to Parliament, and, which ban terminated in hostilities. * He meant this, not as an argument, for argument it was none, hut he meak it to prevent some observations. He had already said, that we had another. Minister at the Hague, and that a 12-41resentation was made to the French GoVernment from the Batavian Govern. ment,:and that at one time there was every reason •to believe that the Representation Would have ,been at tended with success. If the Hon. Gentleman would fur the present withdraw his Motion) His Majesty's , Ministers would consider of the matter, and if the ~ ,,D eauments: referred ..to were in the Office of his Noble Friend (Lord HAWKESBURY) all possible and regular information should be laid , before the House. • Mr. SHERIDAN said,. he could not persist in his Motion after/what be had heard from the Right Hon. Gentleman, although the information he had called for was of the utmost importance ; but here again he•could not. help repeating, that this was an additional reason for delaying, for a few days", the general discussion of the subject. Lord.HAWKESBURY said,• he should not have any nbjedions to the proposed. delay, if lie were not apprehensive of some aerioni.inconveniences from it, such as had been already stated—namely, that it might appear as if there was in the House, an unwillingness; to come to -the discussion of this • important subjetl. He meant to maintain one ge neral point in this matter, namely, that through out the disci,sioo, there was, on the part of the French Governineat, a disposition not to refuse,sa. tisfaetory Answers, on various topics,.but to evade them. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHQVER ob. "T"4l.that there might be some Papers relating to the Communications between the French and the Dutch Governments which ought not to be pro. daced. Mr.. GRAY said, he understood that a4hongh Lord Whitworth had not. communicated to Go. vernment that w:lich was now the subjeCt of debate, ;vet, chat our Millis ter at t h e Hague, Mr. Liston, had done so. CiiV,VING raid, it the Communication of: Jr. Liston was satisfadary to Government, and so important as it now 6eesmed to be 0n the subject of the French Troops evacuatiOg:Holtand, Ministers would have much to do•in their endeavours to con. - since Parliament of the propriety of with-holding that (. ommunieation. If Mr. Liston had received. assurances that the French Troops would be drawn from Holland, and he transmitted tli formation to the Mini.sters of this Country, they ought now to produce that information to Pir.: liament. Mr. JOHNSTONE referred to certain information in the Papers on the Table relating to Malta. DaBor LAWRENCE called to order, and said, he conceived the Honourable Member was irregular at present. in alluding to Malta, because, another question was before the House. The SPEAKER said, that he certainlydid under. stand that the Motion of the Honourable Gentle. man (Mr. SHER I D AN) had been waved. 'That at present there was no Question before the House,, and that therefore Mr. JOHNSTONE might now proceed. Mr. JOHNSTONE then adverted to that part of the Documents on the Table which related to the refusal of the Emperor of Russia to garrison Malta, and asked for some further Documents . upon that Lord HAWKESBURY explained the nature 'of the communication upon that subjea, and Observed, that it was an advisable praelice, as he had hinted last night, when Members wished to move for Do. cument s - which were not before the House, to COM municatelheir wishes - to him before-they moved for them, that he might come prepared to assent to* them, which might save a great deal of time, by prevent ing discussion, if that could he done with propriety, or that he might be prepared to assign reasons why be ;mild not comply with the request. There were pOinta on which he could not give.nn:answer on the sudden, for althougli he might have no objeetion to Vlproducing the re qu ired Document, yet the Foreign inister to whom they" referred, might objet to it, and therefore he desired - time to' consult upon the subjea' before he answered: any questiOns, or corn. plied with, any / requisition upon this eubjea :- all he asked now was, that the tion. Meinber would not, at-present, persist in any Motion upon this . -subjett. G/ISCOY.NE rose pursuant to , the notice be had 6tven to move for various-documents which appeared to him to be necessary to prepare for the discussion of the important subject Which was to he brought forward on Monday. Ile wished for several Documents which existed previous as well 48 subsequent to the Treaty of Amiens, and without which, in his opinion i the flouse would rot have a full - view of the subled*they were about to diteuss, He should state the objets ,of all his motions, (for lie had. four of them to. male, ) beiore he should desire one of them to lie. put . from the Chair, and in so doing, he f'oll o w'ed the cootie adopted by an Hon.• Genikmart near him; (Sir. GR E Y,.) and Which course appeared to him to he the best, because all the motions might thereby be in. chided in. one debate, since Ministers Could say which of them, if any, they assented to, and which tlieyopposed.. Three.. of his-Motions were of a na." cure which had been already described, and although they might once have been objeClionable on the score of danger in the communication, yet he did not think they were so now.. Thee first motion he had to submit was, for a copy. of all the represen tations or remonstrances made by Ministers on the part of Malta, from the . :first of oClober, t Sot, to the last day of March 18ca, &c. He thought thia the most necessary document of all whip remain ed to be laid before the House, becaust-three.fourths of the whole negotiation or diseassion between this country. and Fianee related -to Malta, and this appeared to be almost the whole matter in contest.. The next Motion he had to submit was for a Copy of:all such Representations or Remonstrances as were .made by, the British Government on the sub. jets of the Italian Republic, and of the Annexation of Piedinont, either Before the Treaty of Amiens or subsequent thereto„ &c.- The next was for a Copy of all Orders sent to any GOvernors, &c. in the West Indies, which have - been issued since the Treaty of Amiens, previous to the evacuation of the same, &c. &c. This,,he said, appeared to him to be necessary, in order that the House might con_ skier whether it would not have;been proper in us -to have kept them all in our possession as well as Malta. There was also a point in No. 38 of page +B, of the . printed Papers relative to Canada, on whiCh he ward information. The next Motion he'llad to submit was.for a Copy of the Account or Informaiion sent to Government by Mr. Liston at the Hague, and the Remonstrance, &c. made re speeling the continuance Of the French Troopsiii Holland; upon which, although at one time there might have beendanger in the communication, now there could be none. Having expatiated on the propriety, as it. appeared to him, of all these Mo• lions, he said he should put them all into the hands of the SPEAK Ett to be read andput to the vote', one after another, .and'disposed of as the House should think . fit: • The first Motion being read, which was for lay: ing before the Mine Copies of all representations and remonstrances made to His Majesty's Ministers on the part of the Maltese Inhabitants, &c. from., the first of Otiober iSor, to the last day of March 1802, together with the answers thereto, &c. Lord IJ4WKESBURY observed, that he had no difficulty in saying, that 'with respell to one of the Motions of the Hon. Gent. namely, that•which was for information relative to the West.lndlts, neither himself nor 'any one in His Majesty's Government had.any desire to conceal' any part of it, and, there fore, that was a Motion to .which he entirely assented ; with regarStO the rest, he felt it his duty to move the Prey ious Question upon them; for reasons -which had been partly urged already, and for one which was of a general nature, and an answer w all , motions of this kind when if applied, nawly, that no Parliamentary ground had been laid for granting them. As to th:!M,:ltese, his*Lordship observed, that they . had sent a letter to the Secretary, of State, in which they expressed, in every -respeet, their SR. , tisfadion as to the conduet which His Majesty's Government had held towards them, and stating that although they would have wished to have lived under the protedion of His Majesty, yet they were perfealy satisfied, - as that , could not be the case, With the arrangements made by His Majesty's Go vernment in their favour. His Lordship said he held a copy of their letter in his hand, and which he read as part of his speech, the substance of which was, That the Maltese presented to the Govern_ merit of this Country their warmest' thanks for all they had condescended to do in favour of their na tion, which was worthy of the magnanimity of Great Britain, and which although they had not the honour to have become its subjeds,' they would transmit to their Posterity the 'gratitude they felt for the Obligations* we had conferred- on them.— This Was the substance of the letter,which the Mal. 'tes,esent to the Government of this Country the day aftei the Definitive Treaty was signed. While their Represintatives were here, they were treated with a due attention by His Majesty's Government, His Lordship concluded by 'observing, as he had said already, that with reaped to the nation which' related to information concerning the West Indies, he assented to it, 'but with regard to the others, as , no Parliamentary ground had been laid for their pro.. duaion, he should move the Previous Question an them. - On the Question being put, Lord HAWKRSBURY moved the Previous Question. Mr. WINDHAM said, it had been stated by the Noble Lord (HAwscesticißY), that no Parliamentary ground had been alledged for this Motion; there were, however, grounds of National Interest . and Dignity for snaking it a subject of Parliamentary Inquiry. The Noble Lord had produced a different Paper to that which was moved for ; thus there were two Percys" in the field, and how. were they to. judge which was the true one, without inquiry.? -It had been reported, that the Maltese Deputies were refused to be heard, for fear of giving' umbrage to France. For the truth of this he did not pre. tend to vouch, he only asked for inquiry. The CHANCELLOR of the 4,XCIIEQUER said, that when his Noble Firiend stated that no Parliamentary ground had been alledged in behalf of the present Motion, his Noble Friend meant, that there was nothing urged by which.it could be made applicable to the question which stood for. diseuision on Monday, a point which the Right Ron. Gentle. man (Mr: WINVHAM) had almost admitted. .With respect to what had been stated by the Right lion. Gentleman, of the indignity offered to the Maltese Deputies, that. Righr Hon. Gentleman had been Irossly deceived, no such sentiment as bad been imputed by that Right Hon. Gentleman, had ever . been uttered by any Member of theßritish Govern. .ment, .nor had he ever heard of such a circumstance till he heard it from the Right 140. Gentleman. lie had heard it stated that am indignity had'been off:red to those. Deputies 'by an inattention .to their conveyance home, but the co, - was, that a frig4tc. ikact been -provicio for thOr.conveyance from this COuntry: 'lf the Hors. Gentleinan..-{Getetal GAS. coi - NE) wished to bring forward any ; nitionwith a view to the object stated by the Right lon. Gen , ticirlarl (Mr. WINDHAM) ) . it sni g tu.he a ,sithjeCt for future-consideration but he could not co nsent to the present. Motion.' • Pr: LAWRENCE. thought the que3tinii was in sorno measure connected with the distusiion of Monday. Mr. GREY observed, that he had heard no suffi cient reason given why the- papers in question shout& not be produced, for though the Motion might not be 'counefted with tilt discussion of Monday, yet it appeared that it might .becume a distinft subjefl of inquiry, .and certainty - a most important one. He wished' for, the sake of the Country-and the charaaet of His Majesty's Ministers, that the papers might'bi-produced. Col. ckAllmil. said, he principally rose because one of the Papers alluded to, and 'which was called a Mat.ifestO, had been circulated at Malta whilst he was there. It appeared to him that the Peace had put an end to every necessity for the produdion of that Paper, and, in fad, if it was now produced it would be found useless. It might, at the same time, tend to throw blame upon him, as he issued it without authority, for the purpose of animating the inhabitants of Malta' at that particular crisis, and to expedite the SUrrender of the Fortress. 'The SECRETARY at WAR said, that the Pre. vious Question moved by his Noble Friend, was no. denial of the Motion, but only tended to this, that the Papers 'in question ought not to be produced at the present moment. It appeared to him that these Papers were very remotely, if at all Connected with the question' for discussion on :Monday. He did not mean to say, however, that at a future 'period it might not become a - subjekt of consideration. Mr. trARD, said, he did nut mean to contend for the produdion of the Papers, as applicable, to the discussion of Monday. He referred to the statement respetiing the reception given by one of. His Ma. jesty's.Ministers to the Maltese Deputies,: and he wished to ask, whether it could be true, that Lord Hon ART did say to the Maltese Deputies, come to my House and not to my Office, for fear of.giving umbrage to the French Government.. He thought an answer to this materially involved the Honour of the Country., which, like Caesar's Wife, ought not only not to be contaminated, but ought not even to be suspeded.:. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he thought •it necessary to give a direct an. ewer to the question put by the Honourable Gentle man. He bad never heard. of the imputation to which the Hon. Gentleman referred until he came into that House. General G ACOY:NE, in explanation, disclaimed any intention of imputing blame to the Hon. Geo. tleman (Colonel GRAHAM). Coloael GRAHAM,. also in explanation, observ ed, that he did not mean to say that any blame was imputed to him by the Hon. General. Mr. CANNING said, that though perfectly agreeing with the Hqn. Gentleman who made the. Motion, in the dedudion drawn by that Honourable Gentleman with reaped to the Debate of Monday, yet he attached much more importance to some cir cumstances: which' had arisen incidentally out of the present discussion, inasmuch as it became a question h ow I far the Honour and Interest of the Country had been committed. As the Right Honour. able Gentleman (the SRpRRTARY AT WAR) had said, that at a future period it might become a subject for consideration, he should not feel much teluttance in assenting to the' Previous Question, with an understanding that at a fuiure period it should be inquired Whether there was any truth- in the statement referred to, that during the period of Negotiation, one of .His Majesty's Ministers had refused to treat with the Accredited Agents of Allies, for fear of giving umbrage to the French Govcrn. meet. He thought that a most important question . with resped to the charaeter of the Government and the Country, and most important that such a scan. dalous.rumottr should be proved to be unfounded. The SECRETARY at IVA ,in explanation said, that he did not mean to say that at any, future veriod he should accede to a Motion for the produdbon of the Papers alluded to. Lord C ASTLE RE AGH said, there could be no doubt that tilde Papers moved for, were not applt. cable to the discussion.of Monday, for though they might be moved for _with a view to a question; whether the Ministers were right in concluding the Treaty of Amiens, yet such a question ought not to be mixed with that which related to the measures taken in execution of that Treaty. With respeCt to the charge made against Lord ,floamtr, it was not very fair to bring forward such a complaint, when it could not be immediately and direCtly eon. "radiCted in that House, and whilst at the same time an unfair impression Might be made upon the public mind with respeft to that subje&. This motion could however only apply to a_charge against`one of His Majesty's Ministers, but could not apply to the discussion of Monday. With resped to that charge, the letter read.by the Noble Lord (HAwicaswurr) was a construCtive denial of it, as it was.. not very likely &the Maltese Deputies had received such an indignity, that such a letter would' have been sent. Dr. - LAWRENeE explained. Lord TEMPLE said,' it was for the purpose of knowing whether there was any ground.for the im. ptitation alledged against one-of His Majesty's . Mi., nisters that the Papers were isked for. He had - too , , high an opinion of Lord HotiAwr to suppose that ne , would be guilty of the' conduit which was imputed to him. lie trusted that such would not appear to have been the conduit of 111;4 Noble Lord. As, 'however, the Papers moved for did not apply to the' discussion_ of . .Mooday, •he hoped the Huo. Gentle., man would withdraw his Motion. STURGES requested . ro know the names which were signed to the letter read by the, ,Noble Lord. Lord HAWKESH URY rend tnem. Mr. Ir. sAMW thought the diseussinn had been concluded with too much warmth, as His jest Y's Ministers had displayed a disposition to give the Ilouse every satisfattion upon the pipit res. ped ing which information was requited. It was impossible the the Papers now moved for could be made; applicable to the discussion of Muuday, so as reniter prf;tl (on tlrCes3:lfylf ie inotnent: The Previous Question was then put and as it`was also.Qn the geeolid,anA • , - - The third motion was rigre,ed - to: 60 the fifth Motion, respetqing with ihe,Ctrutt.oriiapleS, relative to, the la Mind o Lord H4wlttstiiiitit likewise. moved the Pre?i. ous Question. Lord TEMPLE observed, that .00 Question, hat been urged in favour of the Previous Question,. an,,f as the Island of •Larnpedosa was a itibjea so daily alluded to in the Papers on the Table; Ile thought smite explanatiOn ought to be given re; speeling it. . Lord HAWKESBURY said) that the trotind of moving. the Previous Question was; that he did no[ see how the Motion could be conneifted with the. discussion of Monday respeaing the question of Peace 'and War, as, if discusSed in any shape, it must he so at a future period- with respc6t to any investigation of Ole conduct of Ministers Di. LAIP`RNCE observed, that it appeared that Lampedosa belonged to a third Sovereign, wh o wa i not consulted with resped to its.ceSsion,lliii re. quired explanation. Lord HAWKESPURY said, that. Government had noidea of France making 'such a cession ; the only way in which it was introduced was by, its' making part of an arrangement proposed for the previous consent of the French Government, Dr. LAVVitrNCE explained.. The Previous Question was then put and carried. Lord TEMPLE said, that . a charge bati beeri brought apinst the Noble' Lord (filAwicEsauttv) by, the French Government, for not having accord. ing to previous agreement, deported to Canada nre.l who had borne arms in defence of . their Country,. and shed their blood in its detence—and ‘vfm.n tliit Country bad proteeted and ericoraged, - Which had not been repelled. Lord' HAWKESBURY said, hat he b.a,i inad4 vertently omitted to answer that 13 . 0 it, ; but he should think His Majesty's Ministers higly nal, if they should attempt to force or &tart .then who were under the protection of this Country: l. td Canada. The Bill for the Defence of the Country was read a first time, and committed to a Select Committee on Monday next, and the Committee orciered to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of, the 1-House. The House went into a Committee of the whole House, on the Indemnity Bill, when the clauses were Agreed to, and the repott ordered to be re. ceived'on Monday. Sir JOHN ANDERSON moved the first reading of the engrossed Bill from the Lords f for pUnishing Persons guilty of burning Ships-tit Sea; &c: ThO Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time and printed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER postponed the 'third reading oldie Clegy men's Non.residence Bill to Thursday next. The Land Tax Redemption Bill was read . a first time, and ordered to be read a second dine on, Mon, day next. The ComMittees of Supply, and Ways and Means, Were postponed to Monday. _ The third reading of the Bill for preventing Vex utious Arrests, was postponed to Monday. Ad journed at 8 o'clock. T H, E SUN. SOLIIIM QUIS £IIOIIRII 1/ALOW4 AUDZA LONDON, MAY 21, IEO3. A very important ConVersation took place last night in both Housei of Parliament, on the subject of the Papers respeeling the Negotiation. In the House of Commons much importimt information was given by Lord HAWSB 111: r. It does appear that a Messenger overtook Lord WHIT. wOrrit after he had left 'Paris, with a Proposition in a very imoffiCial forhvof a nature which could' not be attended to ; and he likewise distinaly stat. ed; that neither Mr. TALBOT bad been left in Paris, nor M. PORTALIS in London, with any view to a renewal of Negotiation, but merely to take care of Papers ,belonging to their respective Eta« hassles; and Mr. TALBOT very principally for the purpose of affording proteelion to such English as have not yet been able to ctuit France. In our Paper of Thursday and yesterday our Readets found the important Papers laid before 'Par. liament relative ,to the Negotiation between this Country and France. They contain a:great mass of matter the most interesting, perhapN, that ever was submitted to the People of this Country ; and the perusal of them, and of fits MAIr t 's Decla ration, can excite but one sentiment in the tnind-of every man attached to the Honour or the Interests of the Country—a sentiment of regret, but at the sante time of Indignation against the unjust proceed. ings of the GovernMent of France. It is evident that a conciliatory disposition on the part of France towards this Country, never has existed front the Signature of the Treaty of Arnim ; while, on the other hand, in the hopes of still retaining Peace, His Majesty's Ministers appear to have shewn a disposition but too conciliatory. We have always contended that it was necessary, at the. , time of the Treaty of Amiens, to try the ea-per:meta iv' P eace; but surely the experiment had been tried, long be. fore all had taken place which is detailed in the 1 3 1 . 0. CeediflgS to which, we refer. The Nation must be animated to a sense of its Wrong - u . _and there 4lit) man with a British ilearc