The Sun. — London, England, 1845-02-27 00:00:00

1 THE SEJN, LONDON, TriURSDAY EVNIN.FEBRUARY 27, 1845. i.r.,sTi political dogma out into its full consequences ; for, perfect and systematic consistency in legislating on thin g which they desired to rove. They haft al:wiled be sustained. But the question was now practically , Is political dogma to the subject of brine,ing ..lave this, whether a practical stimulant . should be given to Jab", ir thai, a o the markets of this country. It was true the slave trade by encouraging the sugar of Cuba and wh , f r l'lnY of those dogma; were correct in the principle Brazil ? The questionkhad often been brought before the a e jthey were intended to support, but there was also liouse . by Eon. Gentlemen opposite, and often been de- Certain tendency in them, and if this tendency were cid( d in favour of the distinction. In 1842 the Hon. theuqualified. those Hon. Gentlemen would find that, in Member for . Du . tnfries moved for an e qualisation of the a ., e . end. ePneation of their &eines, they defeated their own duties, and similar motions had since been brought for : toes .In the dogma which they had applied to the ward. He (Mr. G.) would not say that those gentle look t Tli of the introductien of sugar, they had over- men who insisted so much upon the interests of corn fc,_.ea the market's element. The sugar grown in merce were indifferent to the claims of humanity. They c.ri,lsniiessessions had the command of a great number ought not to accuse him and those who agreed with the any or(tflutiliifteyTat les st it had nearly become so—and con- because in the present case they were willing to make some ' eq ua ntly the sugar of the British possessions had less sacrifice of commerce to protect humanity. The majo fiir they wire confined to fewer marks ts. rity of the British Parliament had determined for years I nu e sugar of the West India possessions were conse- that the distinction should be kept up. He regretted . h ea tlY placed under disadvantageous circumstances. that this question had been made ot.e of party, and that i n ; :: ;:e parties, who were deeply affected by these changes in 1841 it led to a political crisis, the acerbity ungsn , la m . e e law —parties who, from their long experience and dered by which had not yet passed away.—(llear, ii, his stake . in the interest now before the House, ought, hear.) But lie called upon Cit ffil e m e n oppoSite to have LojectoPiniion, to be heard with great respect on this respect for the ascertained and repeatedly-expressed th e a , as - t iese parties a ere fair judges of the policy of Opinion of the majority in that House.—(Hear, hear.) 6., iterations proposed in the sugar trade, and might In 1840 the lion. Member for Dumfries brought the eo'es:thuitted with advantage as evidence of the subject of equalisation before the House. He . proposed atl e ,l a eaces of the competi , ion which the alter- a duty of 245. on British, and of 345. on all foreign '4 0 ,.. of the differential duties would create. sugar. This was negatived by a majority of 95. In th e " gentlemen had entertained great fears of 1841 the question was - negatived, u . pon a division. a 281 • com p eti tion to which they were about to be sub- ayes to 371 ricer, making a majority of 90 against j e l aZ i a l o a ti nd had expressed their deep conviction that the the Hon. Member for Dumfries. In 1842 the lion. .greatly of the sugars of Cuba and Brazil had tended Member for Taunton proposed that the duty on British eee Yto secure to them a benefit which they felt to be sugar should be 205., and that on all foreign alike 30s. Vi et i: s arY to their welfare. Had this not been their con- That was negatived; the ayes were 164, the noes 245, 1 44: 5- bad they not been assured that they had a great being a majority of 81. In 1843 the Honourable yi eide t,n the matter—they would surely have long since Member for Lambeth moved a proposition, involv- Ittilihoee:::::eic;tytioesstetlitietoirprilrgessure which had lain so heavily upon ing only a differential duty of 10i,., upon all Of e ter aa t il would, if from no other cause, yet for the sake foreign sugar. The majority on that occasion this question at rest, and thus saving was 81, the numbers being, ayes 103, noes 222. °l . thj e VeS frOnl the injury which the constant discu sion That showed that there had been no advance of public occasioned—have last year joined with opinion in favour of those Gentlemen's views. —(Hear, . Gl ad 'l,..entletnen opposite. But they knew, as he (Mr. hear.) In the same year the lion. Member for Taunton Ilvesti st " t h n i ? knew, that there was r a great difference be- moved a proposition for the admission of. Brazilian sugar, tre e , th country and Brazil. The cheapness of labour and it was negatived by a majority of 73. Last year C abs e e nnziloyment of slaves would have given to the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) moved for a duty of th ese very great advantages after the repeal of 245. on British, and of 345. on foreign sugar ; that was lea n . dutie s , . , rhis benefit, the Noble Lord said, negatived by a majority of 69. That was the seventh Isi ss O w l i tl tt ita ° l Y have been shared among the consumers. time, in four years, when Parliament was called upon ‘ ,.. 43 Ve r - b ekared to him (Mr. Gladstone) that an error to recognise the principle of the Noble Lord's proposi- Lip•esPeeehl Prevalent in the country, and in that House, tion of that night, and Parliament each time gave a defi• tintr i ,l the quality of the sugars introduced into this nice and sensible response.—(Hear, hear.) He granted !a 4 ' 4 4; 1 1 , 4111 Havannah. The' average quality of the that there was a commercial feeling in the country akPpe art a " sugars was a high quality, and not, as it was against the policy of the Government,:but there was still a s -, a low quality; ' and therefore re it was that the a more extended sentiment against slavery, and in favour L'"l°' Pon. Gentlemen opposite to this subject was of the policy of his Right Hon. Friend.—(Hear, hear.) ert ax .„ a a° one, f or th e ap pli ca ti on o f t hi s f act wou ld M r. COBDEN expressed dissent. klie re ' the c onc l us i on at w hi c h t h ey h a d arr i ved. Mr. GLADSTONE—The Hen. Gentleman need not ee the alas little doubt in his mind but that the abolition shake his head.—(A laugh.) He admitted the ability th e ~° differential duties would give a great stimulus to and sincerity of the Hon. Gentleman in the advocacy thi s ',ll,°,4ase of Cuba and Brazil. It was believed that of commercial principles ; but he could not agree with titi oa '!udus w ou ld so a c t as to create a great compe- him that there was not a strong feeling , in favour of hut % 1° the British market in the sale of sugars, that manity in this quarter. Sir T. F. Buxton, Dr. Lush this d e e et uPetition wou ld i ncrease t h e demand, arid that ington, Mr. Sturg e , an d M r . S co b e ll, were a ll supporters lit 4z ; l i nand world b e sa ti s fi e d b y t h e sugars of Cuba and of the politic a l p ar ty now i n o pp os i t i on , h ut t h ey were Iviti„; i 4 O that there would be abundance for the people also in favour of the policy of the Government on the eekstlt that elevation of price which would otherwise be present question.—(Hear, hear.) And it was to be Fe tter, I ,9aed if the demand had increased and the supply had membered that those were the men who had put an end /../,,Inaiited to the sugars of our West Indian colonies. to slavery in the British dominions.—(Hear, hear.) tha t \ t ' l ! l % Gladstone) did net share in the anticipation Whilst be called upon Hon. Gentlemen opposite t o re al to sugars of sla ve countr i es would so grow in amount spect the often-ascertained opinion of the majority of ties . a nswer the requirements of an increasing popula- Parliament, he would remind them that their movement *nes t un the contrary, he thought that there was a upon this subject excited little interest in the country %le a ; ProsPect of this increase from our West India or in the House, and that the interest was diminishing 40 in' he. and he . believed that if their interests were not every year.—(Hear, hear.) Surely it did not happen 4 lti sf as to interfere with their produce, they would upon any question of interest that the benches ae ti l l toe demands of this country. On these grounds should be so thinly covered, when the leader of the ttreprLolght the proposition of his Hon. Friend neither opposition brought forward a great motion, and the aeo7t,l_eable nor illusory. The Hon. Member (Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer was to answer.—(Hear, fDositi"oe.nere) who had sat down had said that this pro- hear, and a laugh.) If he could see any likelihood that rop os r,,Was neither more nor less than a renewal of the the Noble Lord would carry his principle even next Nit th it ,"°n of his lion. Friend the Member for Bristol ; year, he (Mr. Gladstone) might think it better not to it B ide ef ',was not the opinion of Hon. Members on his oppose it. But when there was such a stagnancy of , ieet i n k b e r -Petise. The Noble Lord had said that his feeling out of doors, and when the feeling of Parlia a. 4 Po s i t; thglng in his metion, was to put the House ment had been incontestably expressed, he called upon B: B Peete,'" of some certainty as to their future conduct them (the Opposition) not to hold out prospects which ititisilottntEsieiyegarttchlitueatn,income- tax Now he (Mr. Gladstone) only encouraged Cuba and Brazil in perpetuating slavery. yftohringhis pa . rt, he thought that he had They had it in their power, by keeping up hopes of more shadowy and inconclusive equalisation, to prevent the success of the policy of tbe chity it o r t glimeat of the Noble Lord. He had talked of Government in discouraging slavery in those places.- 41 , 4 e , 14 se and labour" d to show that while (Hear, hear.) With . . respect to the . imputation hi' us a duty of I4s. on British-grown cast upon the British people of being hypo hi. ' there i tn ,Qi x . ns , would be a duty of 28s. on sugar critical in their professed desire to put an . end teatted „ t ile produce of foreign sanscountrie, had to slavery—those imputations were more discre p4e t o tk `uat this difference was acting as mpedi- ditable to those who made them than to the British eli ft br e e sale of the sugars ofJava and Manilla, which people.—(Hear, hear.) Ile could not admit that Mr. r e ' e d t o a . t° the d u ti es now imposed. He was com- Colquhoun's book w as „ as i t h a d b een characterised by an aith th ere ei 4ifie r from the conclusion of the Noble Lord, Hon. Member, a statesmanlike production, and its im keriii b a s nothing to prevent the sale of these sugars, imitations_ upon the people of England were wholly un 111 tD p ro °3l Cl or free. This he would endeavour to show founded, and contradicted by the facts ; for the English thi:kat w as from the statements of the Noble Lord, people had made great commercial sacrifices, in ex lte • %li t .4 that the sugar likely to be introduced into eluding the trade of Caba and Brazil rather than en -4,4, as t r h Y _ w as of two classes. These he would de- courage slavery.—(Hear, hear.) He begged of lion. Il e fit ter ' elayed and the Muscovndo sugars, the latter Gentlemen opposite to consider what the effect of their the % ., v as se a l a ality, and the former of the interior quality. proposition, ifcarried, would have upon the efforts made It ea a teri ka ." 4 that he was not quite correct in describing to put down the slave trade by means of an armed navy. 1 041' tak,.'lnality of foreign sugar as clayed sugar, but With what decency could they shed blood and take teir ti gh taZht for the purpose. Now the duty on clayed life, in the attempt to suppress the trade, if they ren ‘lifeelt of r-, ,, as 9s. 4d., while the Noble Lord was dered it necessary by the increased demand for the pro iirit7l,the i s : The same terms were applied to each pro- ductions of slave labour. The question of armed sup- I N t 3 l t Pos ee i gher duty to the higher quality, from pression was in a great measure prejudged by t.he.move `lo*"e 10 -34 ions as well as from foreign countries ments of those gentlemen who supported the principle on I t!ttii'll t 4 B e n r ,duty to the inferior quality from both, which the Noble Lord's proposition was founded.— %ph ka..es'sutned that all the sugar introduced from (Hear, hoar.) The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by % a l t e x , aleh was the largest source from which we apologising to the House for having detained them so WI duothreee o derive cur foreign supplies of sugar— much longer than he had intended.—(Hear, hear.) :410`423Agars from Manilla were subject to the high Mr. MACAULAY said, if the motion had been one :ais " l eisa s : (l ,; According to the intimation of the of a merely financial or commercial character, it would ~,hill i' „this -n u of the Hon. Gentleman who had last sat have been more becoming in him to have remained ''' oikett f t , "'at. would be subject to a duty of 285., silent, because there were Gentlemen on both sides of 14 1',‘ 14 - "i'British possessions would incur a duty the House more competent to deal with financial and . I Ni Ice:',. B ut here was a great mistake, the sugar commercial matters than himself. But he . could not ultv -° the ' 17)41 Manilla was not all of the quality sub- conceive that the question before them was either one of t is k / hi gh rate tehe In of duty, nor was the sugar from a commercial or financial nature, for he did not under 11'4 kid th e sugar manufactured in those countries, the stand that they were called upon to decide the question 6 -4 t l vV e l e b row, it . s the former, the inferior upon pnrely commercial or financial grounds. He took t l 4)t el i aee l r - e - e aa best l : i: w ct a ed for these markets . ; and if it for granted, that the objection to the motion proposed tlis i , M I e inclined to aendsugarofthe bestquality, by his Noble Friend was one purely moral. They 44 11 Y ' th e w as subject to the highest duty, to this were told that they were .. . under a moral S ee se e e ke J l i ,m a, af th want who acted for him in the trans- obligation to make a distinction between the ' (It 4 fit e c ommod't ' would select that which produce of free-labour and the produce of . slave labour. s t , ~, t ed a . i 3 i t 4l' Gl ada ,"" the markets of this country ; and Now he was as much averse to the abominable traffic, ion C'et *A I , 1 0 . 4 ) would appeal to the experience of which was at present carried on between Africa and the sk. V !led ; I t 'uer of that House acquainted with the Brazils, as the Hon. Gentleman who . lead just sat down. th en i a t i,e,ad the might, in this instance, appeal to his He, however, thought that it was in his power to show th e , a Ng " 0 Member for Dover, as to his correct- that no such moral grounds existed as those alleged by e,,sterciaesie:esPeet. He (Mr. Gladstone) ' could not lion Members opposite existed. The Right Hon. Ge d n : tiZVsitj un t h 4 t any great injury could arise from deman the President of the Board of T . rade had a t t .,,ii 1 nett `he °f these duties. Complaints had been matted that this moral obligation restricted the corn %Tit B ;cr 2: s ugars of the West Indies had lately mercial interests of the country; and he (Mr. Macaulay) YtZ 4 * t i t h rt hta . P er cwt. Now, when lie recollected the thought that if he succeeded in showing that no such tli , itt;;; Yeses the s through which the proprietors of obligation did - exist, the - proposition of his Noble Oh -''' th lndies had passed during the last Friend ought to be adopted by the House. The Right ttii:s the eednertl!itienities which for a series of years Hon. Gentleman who had just sat . down had said Ilif,t l is R re e `' , he must say, that he was glad to per- that if the House were to agree to it, the Government N o sam i t 's R e - u l d it als of prosperity ; and he could . not would . be placed in a position of considerable difficulty. Las? sie fiel ser , ged them the little prosperity which The Right Hon. Gentleman dwelt upon the inconsistency let3.l4eetie„ea evinced. It had been stated as an- which the Government . would be guilty of, if they were a tl as i tlefi t to the measure of his Hon. Friend, that to make no distinction between the produce of a slave to t tliot ilt ° th e e re derived from it, that benefit would and the produce of a free state. If they did not, the !At ~'7t p f .Mie t h .N'akets of the consumer. The question Right Hon. Gentleman said it would be impossible . for cs,i;'• l i t he e r e , the benefit would at once go into the them to continue their present measures for suppressing Il i tl, lll se„"Ns eci l y - e 5 , t1 , 41 , er, but whether he got that benefit slavery on the high seas. Now it was impossible for tts i ,:e6ss ti a „ -',, ii Known that when a reduction first anyone to say that a person, or a body of persons, pro .ttially._Zi,;t4ennef.it invariably went to the producer fessing to do a certain thing, for a certain moral '"ti- 4 1 4 4 4 4 1 ,‘-`., b ut who doubted but that it ulti- reason, could be acting with consistency while t 4 e ll esi i „ tee consumer? tt. ti k wh i , t i . , c He had received a letter they adopted another course with regard to a 4 sli,, e o h ad ~( H oPlaining that in the reduction on similar case. It . was . impossible, if this . were so, t.oo,..s eat , Just been made, the goods were not to believe in the sincerity of those persotr,. or . to 0,, P . "i i ,,, 0 4 hn!rgree cheaper, but that the whole of place confidence in their powers of discrimination. th e Re . 1 7 gone into the pockets of the pro- But if this moral obligation were always to hold good at e Oa ' a e t eas e -e h i lr• Gladstone) did not see any the natural consequence would be to throw the whole ll' a l'i li i t ‘ e ll e 1 1 1.1 4 1 je t : 11/31 differenc e i ; fl e e . e d n i c d e n in ot th doubtmatter from commercial world into a state of confusion, and he was but at glad to see the Right Hon. Baronet's Budget was not ; 1 )1. 4 i t , t of tillie r eduction would ultimately go into based upon the same principle. He was far from deny- Oip t ilelt :t en e t e°llsumer. The fact was, the best in the existence of this moral obligation •; but it could tiNa*te t e i t iner, over to this country was unfit not be applied in every case. Ile would give one 14 a ltI iii 8 al 8 but the fact was the re- stance which would not only illustrate his argument,but 0 Q : 11 4 1 1:Ur u a g a al ; , of a lower qualit ' y, and the demonstrate the discriminating powers possessed by t t !s,„_4li, er e et , ant over to Holland. [The Hon. Hon. Gentlemen opposite. He would take the simple 0 1 :N e t *hil' e :Aileed a sample of the best Java sugar article of tobacco. Not only did they take the tobacco 'l , Nt i t Nili / t v hiel t Ps ] lion. Gentlemen would siv by of the United States and of Cuba, which was grown not phi 4thiti t th an e presented, and which was of a only by slaves, but by slaves who had recently been im- Oise t ° 4 ls / 41 ' th e usually seen in this country, that orted in defiance of every . principle . of justice or 4 ti til t is o.. .es,i II efiner, it not, in fact, beyond his art. of humanity. But they . positively terdicteu . t he , ife ttl ,Ysta, % ,Pro tr , aci stated that lie was friendly to some , free labourer of the - United Kingdom a from growing lo t . ( e t j'll s „ - ,' pre, - i e s ti° ° of B s., and had stated that by tobacco. For two centuries they had had upon their ti l l 'af 11„ i ejle s _,'; , this duty would have saved all statute-book ant Act which provided that if any tobacco . ititi , sh wa s 'aid s a ta - t ' c t,"e plan of his Right . Honourable was . grown_ in England, except for gad. n purposes, it alAet Ni t w ast e " that th e plan of his Right Hon. might be destroyed. This applied only to . England.. t , a, ti k r tit, efui litl N , 1) 4 , . would and extravagant, and that At one time Ireland commenced the cultivation of e 11 44 he 8 ,, it__ I save all the mischief tobacco, and it opened an important labour market to It i ti s i ' 4l `tur tr! I°ar, hear)—that it would have the population of that country. At length, however, (",pi hefty tli lci 's t:(h.' given a boon to the consumer, the English Legislature took alarm at this bold and 4 1:*Gl s ,, et fle t ! l ght ti, th rJevenue. If such were to be energetic step, and they immediately and positively in ileipOsteaml, and 0 Noble Lord was bound to show terdieted the Irish freemen from growing the plant. ' , Oa s -4 t ") Uot deal in vain generalities. He Now he conceived this was an exceedingly fair test of ` WI ° Pr, how ever w i ts ,' 6 0 3.,' flee ce ~,, Mad apply the Noble Lord's the principles entertained by . Hon. Gentlemen opposite. rl te,ok7 he:a th e n . The Noble Lord would impose It enabled them to ascertain to what degree they in tit, i 1 1 4 e s }, cr lati s h and hus 18s. he on foreign suears tended to carry their consistency, which had been so ,4r to i lti (' 0 0e ' ar s; and t I t 01 4 00 l uf tur , 20 s. on foreig or 12/. an 201. on ' eulogistically spoken of by the Right Hon. Gentleman it kli t if h ., whi eh would save the whole the Secretary of the Board of Trade. If he were to ask \a t iii,"e f la, Is la Was given to the country by if they were prepared to give this restriction . up, i r br ti 4 sa fneci ght H on. Friend. Hear hear.) he was confident the Right lion. Gentleman die First ftilt l s iill,l tk li a,woh th at a duty of 12 7 . on ritish and Lord of the Treasury, and the Right lion. Gentleman i 46 t ' I, la ' 43 . 1.; f ur ' v'? a greater stimulus than ' 14s. the late President of the Board of Trade, would in fatal ti e , -e lis :- will eign. His Right II n. Friend scantly answer, " No, certainly not." Amid why not ? . 4t ,Wr v v w t h tl . ,; . : t h il d s I,,,,,:woctioindsu2._ntion olf ht o year . at Why, because it would injure the revenue. The tobacco L.te,i'L"-es:lvi`ttit I,:rlithliteelloeft'ettaletshideperr-Noedf:)uoaeluetvwLeroyrdisibeprlaaln, that the consumption, whi was im orted from abroad the kne wa louse,ro a l w l o o w u l a d b be w hy hu sl w av n e r s e , t la h u n t p p t e h u t p i l e k t n u e g w u i a )3 1 . 5 , 0 d e t r h i a v t e the d C u t ty atoms fr.om .itis , lON kre . ; aP otild 23°,0 00 to of the . d . uty upon th e . source to the amount of 600/. per cent., and in some ti v tl l4 . th ttn i , b e 2 a ss tons of British sugar, at cases 1,200 , / p . er . cent. If, however, this tobacco were Le a t i , , it wn stn " W,OOOl ; and taking the in. grown by Englishmen or Irishmen it would lead to the se ) - 06, i 11y ,ru ir t ‘ ti n s' it itiel yi ti a d t , 10 001 tons to make up the greatest . difficulty, and for this reason they would not . ti e aa '„st.) ene th e , i -.Os. per cwt., 140,9001; submit to the loss in the revenue; and for this reason also vi 1,4 of °m T i , ""0 together, they would they gave the monopoly in tobacco to slave-owners. If LN l 4 " e ta t :j the e s t ha re v ,'" Plan, therefore, would take this were right, if this were the moral obligations which • I 'ail Iff "nae•—(Hear.) The next pro- lion. Gentlemen . opposite . thought paramount ,s..e ° to ...e V . 1) fv, ” 18 s Lord i is it h l 'u t e W eel t i a b le all f i, '‘as the duty of 10s. on fiscal or commercial considerations, what feasible ib i l ., t t iVe nie tis se , allo w ' relgn sugar. Now he (Mr. tion could there be to t . he proposal made3 d . ii .tt i l l i on t . k i le.l. .1 1 e l i t e le aß Oultt to raise the consumption Friend. To be sure it might be said, and lie s admitted i , 0, ps a. - ea a ct " it g reai ) ( or & eta ,_ 280,000 to 290,000, they found these things existing when they came into ',, ‘ NealtalNli ll ! l sk r all notnsh not so good a de- office, sough still, if they maintained consistency, these 0 . r,... Et pleat's to ar !Y gentlE. 6 01 e (fo p oin . . gin acquainted with statutet to be put down. But this could not . he ile keati aer th .nut in what 11 , t i , , hear am ount . way, upon the a,just and honourable objection, for what was the Right .tils Yth fe e 1. , ) N . _ ot revenue would be re- Hon.. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury about %tiqkst,tiht ti me ' I T m an o ur that was a very serious to do ? Why, he proposed to take away completely la ' 4 O hi th e e ° 914 Lord the Noble Lord, and he the duty upon - cotton. Now, did he not know "'kit s .44,_ o nssi ou , was not in the House, for that this cotton was grown by slaves ?-(Hear, ) t.he WI th, No , of i t was accidental, as it hear.) Could he make out a case of consistency ;' l ` l l ll Bs I° nis°4l° L ed mean r a°rd's plan WO he t d fi i i d l after this But it was said that cotton was not quite so I:i t i, 1 1 fit ab ,ei tt nteant to leave , ‘ l' v i ll . sugar Cotton was less destructive to life than 1 41 a 4 , ( Pli t t itie, t - 'dst s om e John Russell c o a r me m in o and sugar. aas No Country on the face of the earth produced lafiughter.) He had now more human misery in . slavery than the republic of the I N ,. ti t' k) ll 4 , ' a n il d l' ti o lt :'avergl e sla t i Part ,b y kale gores that the Noble United States of America, and the produce of that coin - 'h e tie. e t th 41 10th' Wo uld le th t % Li tip sa .bjees d e l ay , 90,0001. He would not duty. It was not the province of Members of Parbament 4 4 L'lav e.. 3l ß , fe the House longer, but to discuss the affairs of other nations, nor could they ex i "th e ,Frowe as w ., w ords as to the distine- pest that such a course could have any salutary effect; J Wer e to"u free-labour sugar. He but his constituency might ask why they should take P re tend to anything like a the duty off American cotton in preference to Brazilian sugar. The paper makers, the soap makers, contributed largely to swell the income-tax, and they natural] asked why they were to be exempted from their share in the benefit to be derived a surplus revenue. The answer was, Brazil 'maintains the slave trade. He (Mr. Macauley) said that in the United States the slave trade eas more eaiious raid de moralising- than the traffic which was going on between Africa and Brazil. In America there were two classes of slavery. There were the breeding States, where human beings were reared up and supported until they were able to bear the fatigues of labour. Then there were the sugar and cotton States, where the slave was sent to end his days in toil. In the census of 1830 and 1840 they would sO the fluctuation of human beings which took place in these two descriptions of Stater. In North Carolina and Virginia they would find an enor mous increase in the number of human beings. What became of them ? If they looked to another par tof the census they would ,ascertain. In Louisiana and Alabama they would find a proportionate decrease in the same period. Now, any Englishman who had travelled in the United States must be aware of the humid state of the climate of the places be bad just named. Was any description of slaVery more horrifying than the traffic which was carried on between Africa and the Brazils, where they saw human beings driven, in bands of' three and four hundred, from one State to another, in the same way that they drove oxen in this country to Smithfield. God forbid that heshould say one word in xtenuation of any form of slavery, but this, he must say, was more horrible than the other. How a Christian could bring up 500 or GOO human beings till the age of maturity, and then send them to labour, which generally terminates their existence in five or six years, was to him most surprising. There was something in it that surpassed the same trade on the coast of Africa. Brazil had given them the power to exercise the right of search, but the Republic of the United States stood out against the right and threw every obstacle in the way to prevent a sup pression of the slave trade. The United States, re fusing to submit to this right, had virtually taken it away; but not content with refusing to submit to the right, they held themselves out to other countries as the fosterers and apostles of slavery. Could they wonder, then, that any nation entertaining notions of national freedom and national pride, should say, " We do not know why we should submit—other persons have re fused to do so, and why should we do so?" It was all very well for Right lion. Gentlemen opposite to talk about maintaining the right of search, but under their present system it was impossible they could carry it out. 'They would even have Spain asking to be released. The reason the right of search could not be maintained was in consequence of the conduct of the United States of America, and for the slave trade going on, between Congo and Brazil, the United States were more answer able than any other power. America seemed to glory in being the evil genius of this traffic, and they openly avowed their determination to encourage this state of so ciety. He thought he had made out a ease that the re public of the United States had acted, and were acting, in a manner most culpable, and to them ought to be ascribed the evil arising out of the African slave trade. On those grounds, then, he would say he thought he had made out clearly this fact, that of all the countries in which the slave trade was carried on, the United States stood alone as most determined to resist the right of search, and as presetting every manner of facility for the continuance of the slave trade to a much greater extent than that between Brazil and the Coast of Africa.-- (Hear, hear.) But was it because the United States bad this facility in the slave trade that they would treat slaves more leniently ? or was it to be supposed that this was a reason why those jobbers in black flesh would not become more numerous than ever ?—(Hear, hear ) It had been said that this right of search would be a great boon, and one which all who detested the slave trade should applaud ; but he would confess be was utterly at a loss to understand how the Right lion. Gentleman opposite could reconcile it with his conscience to encou rage slavery in one part of the world, and lend his aid to a partial suppression of it in another, and he would in deed be very curious to learn how ho could do so.— (Hear, hear.) There certainly was something like a want of consistency here, for while in the Budget it was stated that the object which, above all others, the Govern ment were anxious to effect, namely, the suppression of the slave trade--they in the same breath said, that under existing circumstances they could not interfere with that trade in the United States.—(Hear, hear.) It would be rather precipitate in. him (Mr. Macaulay) to have anticipated such a course by the Right lion. Gentleman ; but as he had adopted it he (Mr. Macau lay) felt bound to state his reasons for the vote he should give in favour of his Noble Friend's motion.—(Hear, hear.) In the abstract he fully admitted and recognised the power and authority that moral obligation ought to exercise; and if an opportunity offered for doing a bene volent and kind act, to neglect that opportunity would be highly blameable. There were some in the corn'. munity who would attempt to justify such a course ; but at the same time people were not bound to look after the affairs of others to the prejudice of the interests of their own families. If they did act in this manner they would producs more misery than happiness where they intended the latter—(Hear, hear)--and therefore he would contet d for it, on the same principle, that a Prime Minister should not injure the interests of his own country in order to benefit those of others. He would then say to the Right lion. Baronet, it would be better to attempt the amelioration or removal of a grievance that affected the interests of this country, than to attempt to deal with that which did not. He would a- k lion. Gentlemen to look at the factory system, and he would ask, would it not be ab surd for the Prime Minister to propose that he should undertake to supply a measure for the emanci pation of the serfs of Russia, and call upon the Emperor of that vast country to undertake the correction of the English factory abuses?—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Now in taking this view of the subject, he begged to assure the House he did not mean to dr. al in diffuse argument or sophistry; on the contrary, he conceived that this was a common sense view of the question, and he had adopted it in order to vindicate his principles and state his reasons for the vote he should give.— (Hear, hear.) When he first came into Parliament he found the slave trade going on in unmitigated force, and lie gave every aid in his power to bring about its sup pression ; and the Right Hon. Baronet the Home Secretary, knew very well that he (Mr. Macaulay) resigned his office into the hands Of Earl Spencer when he felt himself bound to differ from him on the slave apprenticeship project ; and that, too, at a time when office was as much acceptable to him as it could be to any man.—(llear, hear.) • His resigna tion was not accepted ; but in the meantime the slave trade had been very much mitigated, and he was happy to be able to say he lent his aid to removing the stigma from England that the continuation of that traffic in human flesh placed upon it. He now carne to the ques tion of the slave trade in Louisiana, and his opinion was that it did stand in the same position as those of the West Indies ; for the former were obliged to work from sunrise to sunset for the commonest necessaries of life. They, ton, had a right to be relieved, for all nations were entitled to enjoy a state of comparative freedom ; and he would be as anxious to lend his aid for the amelioration of those grievances which Ireland had to complain of, as for those of the slaves ; but at the same time he should confess, that when he took up a New York paper, and read the Speech of the Presi dent's son against the Government of this country, he felt half inclined to retrace his steps.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The next point of the Right lion. Baronet's policy upon this question, to which he would call-atten tion, was in reference to the refining of sugar. But here be would take the liberty of endeavouring to illus trate the course of the Right lion. Baronet, by relating an anecdote which lie had read in a Spanish novel, called " Gil 131a5." There was a character in that that put him forcibly in mind of the Right lion. Baronet's public course. The character was an old silversmith, who affected great piety, and the most scrupulouS and austere observance of all the forms of his religion, lie went to mass every morning, and never missed a day, while he was remarked as being continually counting over his beads. —(Laughter.) This old man made it a habit to tell his apprentice that of all human crimes there was not one of which lie had so great a horror as the robbery of a church, and that no inducement could be sufficiently strong to make him become a purchaser of any articles stolen from a church.—(llear, and laughter.) In a very few days after having indulged in one of those sermons to his apprentice, a very suspicious, ill-looking fellow came into the shop and offered a silver crucifix and other articles of church plate for sale. The silver smith recoiled with horror, and said lie would not buy them. "Not buy them," said the man, " Well, then, will you melt them down for me?" "Oh, that is quite another thing," said the old man—(Great laughter) —so he took the precious relics between the points of a tongs and melted them down ; and then,tureing to his apprentice, he asked him did he not observe how carefully he had avoided touching the relics—(Renewed laughter.) Now, he contended, that this was precisely the conduct of the Right Hon. Baronet, in reference to the slave-trade ; and •he would contend for it that nothing could have a more immoral tendet.cy than such quibbling with so vital a question.—(Hear.) He would ask, why seem to admire the doctrines of Mr. Fowel Buxton, or Dr. Lushington, and not practice them ? He did not mean to accuse the Right Hon. Baronet of hypocrisy, but he would say, he could not but regret the influence his course would have on the public mind,—(liear, hear.) When he remembered the strnggle that bad bee n made in that House for the emancipation of the slaves, he was indeed astonished how any of the lion. Members oppo site could lend the weight of their influence and abilities to favour the present system.—(Hear, hear.) When the Bill was brought in for the emancipation of the slaves, the Right lion. Baronet said he could not take any part in it, and begged to be absolved from any share in the responsibility of' it. And in the year 1833, the late Vice-President of the Board of Trade said that the reason such a cry had been raised about the differ ence between the amount of labour necessary for pro ducing coffee and tobacco, as compared to that of sugar, arose from time peculiar properties of the different soils, and contended that the grinding labour in this country was much worse. Mr. GLADSTONE was understood to deny that he ever bad said any such thing. Mr. MACAULAY—He could refer the lion. Member to the report of his speech, and he would find he had quoted him correctly. But, speaking of the horrors of' the slave trade, he could not help expressing his surprise at observing the manner in which lion. Members oppo site moved from side to side, instead of sticking to the West Italia question.---(Hear, hear.) Having now stated his reasons for the vote be should give he would eon elude by declaring it would surprise him much if Hon, Gentlemen opposite could reconcile their conduct with their professions.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. GLADSTONE said that the Right Hon Gentle man had brought a severe charge against him —namely, th4i rag 1 ) 0 used conflicting arguments at one time or another, as they might happen t o p romote the West Indian interest. During the wholi) of tliese liiscussiops he (Mr. Gladstone) bad never, to his knowledge, said fr -nn 0 , se word . upan the nature of the sugar eultivation a as be Ingin itself d, structive - of life. In the year 1833 there was* ;in extremely exaggerated notion abroad on this subj . ece. He had stated so then, and he Leiteved su still; but 'n all the speeches with which he had troubled the la ms aiu the discussions within the last far years, he had never said a single syllable as to the elf; et upon humans of the sugar culti va ti on o f B raz i l and Cuba. lie tle ll chargeefor to observe that the exc ee di ng l y severe the Right Hon. Gentl eman h a d a be: fl a made atedwas totally groundless and incapable of being sub st. Sir J. GRAHAM, in rising to address the House, disclaimed any desire of placing himself in competition with the Right Honourable Gentleman wh.i had just sat down. It would be disadvantageous for almost any Gentleman in that House to I follow a speech so able and so brilliant as that which had just been delivered by the Right Hon. Gentleman.— (Cheers.) And he could assure the House that it was from a sense of duty alone that he rose to address them on the present occasion. He felt more particularly im pelled to do so by the personal appeal which the Right Hon. Gentleman had made to him. That appeal re lated to a circumstance which redounded to the honour of that Right Hon. Gentleman, and he (Sir James Gra ham) willingly bore his testimony as to the strict accu racy of the statement which he had made. It referred to the period when that gnat question of emancipation of slaves in our West India colonies was under discussion, during the administration of Earl Grey, of which he (S ir J ames Graham) was a member, when the question resp ect i ng apprenticeship arose, and th e Ri g ht Hon. tenth m an , then holding a place in the Govern ment of Earl Grey, differed in opinion from the executive Government on a material point, affecting, as he thought, the interests of the slave, and he was anxious, by his vote, to support a particular arrangement for the ad vancement of that interest. The Right Hon. Gentleman on that occasion, regardless of all personal interests, and from a sense of duty, did place at the disposal of the Go vernment the office which he then held, in order that he might support that principle to which he was attached. He (Sir James Graham) had taken a part in public af fairs with reference to slavery and the slave trade, as he believed a consistent one. He was a member of the administration in which the Right Hon. Gentleman retired. He was a colleague, and an intimate colleague, of his Noble Friend the present Secretary for the Colonies, whose duty it was to bring forward that particular mea sure ; and to the best of his belief, he had given that measure his cordial and sincere support, and ever since he had had a seat in Parliament, he did not think he had omitted an opportunity of recording his vote in favour of the emancipation of the slaves, To the best of his belief he had given his uniform and constant support to the measures of emancipation, which, in his judgment, he thought conducive to the interests of the black population of our colonies. He must be permitted to observe on the able speech which they had just heard, that, brilliant as that speech was, connected with one portion of the subject then under discussion, yet he could not regard it as taking a comprehensive view of the nature of the subject then under discussion. The Right Hon. Gentleman commenced his speech by observing that he would not deal with this as a commer cial or a financial question, that he would rather treat it as a subject touching upon political morality. Now he (Sir J. Graham) thought that such a great question as that under discussion could not be considered in such a light, for this question could not rightly be regarded abstractedly as a question purely of political morality, discarding financial and commercial conside rations. On the contrary, he was bound to treat this question as one involving not only ri question of political morality, but also a question of finance and commerce of the highest moment. The Right Hon. Gentlerran said that when he considc red this question of slavery, he took a very different view of it. With respect to the slavery of the West Indies, in regard to political mo rality, and that of the slaves in the territories of other countries not immediately connected with our domestic legislature, it was not for him (Sir J. Graham), occupy. ing the station which he did, to follow the Right Hon. Gentleman into a discussion on the social institutions of a great country with which her Majesty entertained amicable relations. At the same time, from molly of the private feelings entertained on this subject—he was hound to say individually—that he could not express, with honesty, any great difference of opinion. He was bound to say, as a Mini.ter of the Crown, that this ques tion must be looked on as a question of finance and com merce. He thought an abundant supply of sugar might be obtained at a lower price, with very great advantage to the consumer, by a reduction in the duty on sugar imported from the British colonies and British posses sions. —(Hear, hear.) He could not altogether dis card from his consideration the present position of the West India colonies. He thought the Noble Lord who had opened this discussion did discard that con- sideration. Although the West India planters had been compensated by a liberal pecuniary grant, yet the means by whieh their property was cultivated was almost de- i stroyed. Considerations of humanity had induced them to impose restrictions on their obtaining free-labour as a I substitute for slave-labour. Under these circumstances, I he conceived that it was the duty of the British Govern ment ; ment to supply th e B r iti s h consumers from that market. He could not discard from his consideration the fact, that in the East there was a population of 100 millions, who were ready to consume our manufactures to an almost unlimited extent. But they had not the means of paying with their produce, and making remittances. It should be remembered that there were places under this Government whose native manufac tures had been entirely destroyed. They had a soil peculiarly well adapted to the growth rof sugar. An honourable East India Director (Mr. Hogg), had said that the valley of the Ganges, pro perly. cultivated, was capable of producing a sufficient supply of sugar for the whole of Europe, in dependent of all other sources. Now under these cir cumstances, the question was not one purely of a moral, but of a mixed consideration —of commerce and finance. Would the House permit him shortly to address them trace le m b t e h r a t for distinction. upon wh a t h a d b een urged with respect to the dis tinction between f ree -l a b our and slave-grown sugar? the house Dumfries wasln thlBe4ofirtsteincintheas.t I tion was first raised b y that Hon. Membe r . O n t h at occasion the Hon oura b le Member said that it was ouse Hon. his wish to propose that the reduction of the duty should be made in favour of free-labour sugar, only--that he was anxious to confine the benefit of the reduction to the manufacture of sugar not made by slaves. On that oc casion the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Taunton resisted the motion of the Hon. Member for Dumfries. The Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Taunton, and the Noble:Lord and his colleagues opposed that motion. On that occasion. the Hon Member for Sheffield (Mr. Ward) presented a petition from Sheffield, praying that sugar, the produce of free labour, should be ad mitt de under suc slaveh advantages as to exc l u d e a ll sugar the prd labour. The Hon. Member for Sheffield, and the Right llon. Gentleman the Member for . Taunton; expressed the opinion that this petition wits indicative of the feelings of the people of this country. In the debate which took place on that occa sion reference was made to cotton and tobacco, which were the products of slave labour, being admitted. into the British market. How did the Right Hon. Gentle man the Member for Taunton meet that ease ? Why, exactly as they (the Government) did now. In the first place, the Rght Hon. Gentleman the Member for Taunton contended that cotton and tobacco did not enter into competition with similar articles raised by free labour in our own colonies. —(Cries of "Hear, hear.") He thought, if he was not mistaken, that the expres sion of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Taunton was, that he was not prepared to open a flood gate to the supply of sugar which would inundate the British market, if the proposition of the Hon, Member for Dumfries were carried. What was the language used by Dr. Lushingtou on that occasion? Ile said that the admission of slave-labour sugar was, in his opinion, an abandonment of the whole of Ode anti slavery policy, and that if it was their object to main tain that policy, it would be impossible to admit foreign free-labour and foreign slave-labour sugar on the same terms. That was not only the opinion of Sir S. Lush ington, but of many other persons who were distin guished advocates of the Emancipation Act, and who admitted that the measure a proposed, if carried, Would be a departure from the established policy with regard to the slave trade, and that it Would be a national disgrace, for the sake of a paltry gain, to depart from a policy to which the faith of the nation was pledged. He h a d vo t e d on t h at occasion , with the ma jority. He had, in 1841, adhered to the same course which he adopted in 1831, and from that line of policy he had not receded. The Noble Lord who brought for ward the present proposition had made one or two ad missions in the course of his speech, which seemed to him (Sir J. Graham) to be almost conclusive with regard to the vote to which he hoped the House would arrive that night. Ho admitted that the West Indian proprietors were entitled to some protection, • and that that must be given in the shape of a dis cr i m i nat i ng d uty o f B s . or 10 s . H e (Sir J. Graham) would not foll ow hi s Ri g ht Hon. F r i en d the Member for Newark into the calculations be made with regard to the effect this would have upon the revenue. He believed that that could not be effected without considerable loss to the re venue. It was not contended by her Majesty's Government that it was possible to give a protective duty to the colonies (which they did not mean . to deny was thei r o bj ect) without some loss to th e revenue . But it was enough that the Go vernment had benefited the consumer by reducing the price of sugar by Id. 0r,11 ) 4d. per lb. Nothing . was so easy as to say, when you enunciate some general principle, that those who did net at once put it into practice were dishonest, but, on the other band, those who would do so without considering all the bearings of such a course might be called absurd. Nothing was so dan gerous, when one was dealing with a great question, as to con sider it without reference to the circumstances which might surround it. He was of opinion that the measure brought, for ward by her Majesty's Government would effect great objects, would give to the British consumer a considerable reduction in the price of sugar, which was an article of first necessity. Corn. bined with that reduction of price it would give to the British colonist great relief from the difficulties of his position. It would give great encouragement in the Ea s t I ndies to the growth of th a t p ar ti cu l ar pro d uct f or which the soil was best suited, and all this would be effected without stimulating the slave trade, against which the faith and honou r of the country was pledged. He thought it would be a difficult matter to re con ci a their professions of desiring to put down the slave tradeif they opened the British markets to the consumption of slave-la bour sugar. To make no distinctionbetween free-labour and slave labour sugar, would be to give a great stimulus to the slave. trade. And to make such a distinction would in his opinion be a great discouragement to it. Any such result fostered by the Legislature, sanctioned last year by a large majority, would be consi s t ent w i t h t h e cour s e th e y h a d heretofore pur. sued, and to which the faith of Parliament was plighted. He had, therefore, no apprehension that a measure which lytw.ered the price of sugar to the consumer, without departi ng from the aadop ted nti,sl l ye t ra d e _policy hitherto . w 0 11.‘4 Pot r ece i ve t h e satiation of the Aritiih community, and he ootild not hesitate to give the present mot i on hi s most decided opposition. Mr. C. WOOD.said he did not feel surprised that therßight Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, had not at all adverted to the brilliant speech of his Right Hon. Friend (Mt. Macau. lay.) He did not attempt any reply to a speech, one the most brilliant in language and most unanswerabl e in argument 1ip..1 evef heard'.--(lielgt,Pet9, Foin . plaint of the Right non. Isaronet that so Big" 4 1°n. hati • only dealt with the political and moral view of the question, omitting altogether any notice of the corn- mereial and financial view of it. But it was admitted, that in th it view of it the Government were out of court.— ( Hear, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend took the political and moral view of it because the financial and commercial one was entirely given up.— ( Hear, hear. ) And his Right. Hon. Friend had not left the Covet runent a leg to stand en, as far as the moral aspect of the question went ; and the Right 11011. Baronet must have felt this strongly, for he did not even attempt a reply. In answer to the argument of his Noble Friend, that the Government measure would encourage slave-grown sugar, beesuse the free-grown sugar, which now supplied the markets of the world, would he attracted to this country, and its place would be supplied with slave-grown sugar, the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Newark said that the whole quan tity of free-labour sugar would not be supplied by slave-labour sugar, though he admitted the measure had that tendency. Now he (Mr. Wood) thought that was mere quibbling. (Hear, hear.) How could he douLt but that the measures of the Government would have that effect ? (Hear, hear. ) With regard to the calculation of the Right lion Baronet ( Sir It. Peer) he said that 25 4 0,000 tons of sugar would be con sumed in consequence of the reduction of Id. or kid. per lb. Admitting that his calculatio n was right, it would not give a large consumption, after all, for it would only be 201 b. per head in a population of 28,00.1,000 people. That amount was consumed in 1831. There was nothing extravagant, there fore, in the calculation, supposing the price was lowered. But would the price be brought down ? He did not think that there would be any redon of price t qual t o t h e amount which the Gove rnment ucti reckoned up on . Ile considered, that there would be no adequate benefit given to the commercial interest by the course that was to be pursued. It was almost impossible to sat to what particular species of sugar the duty would apply. He believed that there was the greatest difficulty in discovering the difference between white and elated sugar. 'I }tree •fourtha of the description of sugar upon w hich the Right lion. Gentleman relied for procuring duty was sugar of the higher price. The Right Hon. Gentle man had almost relieved him from the necessity cf saying any thing on this subject, by stating that the supply from c o l on i a l sources would be l arger than he had calculated. Of course, in that case, a l ess amount of foreign sugar would come in, and thus the loss to the revenue would also be greater than had been anticipated. He believed that, in spite of the course now pursued by the Government, they would in the end deal with sugar exactly as they had done with coffee. After re sisting the reduction of differential duties in the case of coffee, they eventually came to the House and proposed that reduction themselves; it was his firm conviction that they would pursue the same course with respect to sugar. Notwithstanding all that was said on the subject of slavery, the question, stripped of appearances, resolved itself into this—whether a heavy tax should be imposed on the people of this country, for the bene fit of the West India colonies? He thought the Government were to blame for not seizing the opportunity now afforded to them of admitting all foreign sugar. They would, in his opinion, have acted with more wisdom had they pursued that course. He did not believe that the benefit to the consumer mentioned by the Hon. Member for Newark would be adequate to the loss he would feel from the differential duty. He was sorry, also, to hear that the income-tax was clearly settled onthem for three years, and that there was no indistinct prospect of their having it imposed on them for a still longer period. Sir It. PEEL said, one complaint that had been made by the Noble Lord opposite was certainly unreasonable and unjust. The Noble Lord said that the Government had not, on this occasion, entered into any detailed explanation of their reso lutions respecting the sugar duties. Why, the wish of the Government was to have an opportunity o f entering upo n t h at detailed explanation.—( Hear, hear.) They had that day given notice for moving the Committee of Ways and Means. His Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer was particularly anxious that the Govern ment should have an opportunity, in that Committee of Ways and Means, of supplying that explanation which he (Sir R. Peel), in the general statement he had made, had omitted to give. His Right Hon. Friend was interrupted in that inten tion by the Noble Lord bringing forward a motion, perfectly fairly he admitted, but which at any rate prevented his Right Hon. Friend from of availing himself the opportunity he sought. The Noble Lord, in bringing forward his motion, raised quite a different issue from that which would be raised in the discussion of the details of the resolutions of the Govern ment ; and the Noble Lord contended that before they entered into the Committee of Ways and Means, before they discussed the resolutions of the Government in detail, they should join in a discussion of that question, which hail been more than once discussed, namely, whether or not it was poli tic to exclude 'slave-labour sugar from competition with th e produ ce o f t h e i r own colonies. The Noble Lord avoided en tering on all the details of the subject, confining himself parti cularly to the subject —a great and important subject —to which his own motion referred. He said nothing about the establishment of a discriminating duty on sugar, he said nothing of th e d eta i ls of the resolution; he (Sir 11. Peel) thought that the Noble Lord invited them to enter into the great question whether or not there ought to be any discrimi nating duty on sugar the produce of slave labour. They had followed his example, and endeavoured to imitate him. He thought, therefore, that with respect to the complaint of the Noble Lord that the Government had not given a detailed statement of their intentions, that complaint was quite without foundation.—(Bear.) The Noble Lord had referred them to the income-tax. Now, he ( Sir R. Peel) was cer tainly surprised at observing that while the Noble Lord con stantly attacked the ineome-tax, and denounced the policy of continuing it, he yet expressed :his determination to vote in favour of it.--(Cheers and laughter.) Why, if Hon. Gentle men opposite disliked anti disapproved of the income-tax, why did not they vote aga i nst it ?—(Cheers.) If it was such an inquisitorial and oppressive tax, why did they concur with him (Sir R. Peel) in the proposal for continuing it for a longer period ?—( Cheers.) And observe, it was stated that the Government gave no sufficient guarantee that the income tax would cease at the end of three years. They said themselves that they saw every probability of its continuance beyond that period. Why, how could they reconcile this declaration with their vehement objections to that tax—( Hear, hear)—while they were so passively content to go on with him in its fa vour ?—( Cheers.) The Hoia. Gentleman opposite !aid that he (Sir R. Peel) had convinced him that there would not ac tually be a su. plus —nay, that at the end of two years frem the present time there would be a small deficiency, and _therefore he voted for the income-tax • he voted for it to supply that de ficiency. But the Honr Gentleman contemplated oily a small deficiency of some 500,00 W. or 600,06 W., and if it was no more than that amount, surely their financial a ingenuity might supply !that without recourse to the income-tax. Why, he ( Sir Robert Peel) asked him to vote for a tax producing 5,200,0001 a-year ! and yet the Honourable Gentleman said lie was content to continue the present tax. —( Hear, hear.) He said that at the end of one or two years there would be a small deficiency—and, therefore, the lion. Gen tleman came to the conclusion, not that a small tax producing some 500,000/. or 600,000/. should be imposed, but that a tax producing the large sum of 5,200,000/. a- year should be continued in operation.—( Hear, hear.) And this, not for three years only, for the Hon. Gentleman said himself that he believed it would be imposed for six. But at the end of three years it was very possible that the Hon. Gentleman might be reminded elsewhere of his support of this tax, and therefore at the beginning of 1845 he thought it prudent to leave it on record, as it might be convenient to him at the end of 1545, that he had in debate disapproved of this tax. The fact was that Hon. Gentlemen opposite decidedly approved of the proposition of her Majesty's Government.—( Cheers, and laughter.) It was not because they saw a probability of a small deficiency that they voted for this tax, but because they saw that this was the proper time to try a great, and, he would call it, a bold experiment with respect to the taxation of the country !—(Loud cheers.) But Hop. Gentlemen opposite said, also, that the attempt to make commercial treaties with other countries had failed. Had he ever denied it ?—( Hear, hear.) And her Majesty's Government proposed this—that as other countries would not enter into those treaties, at least as far as the negotiations with respect to those treaties were protracted for a very long time, so that the relations of com merce were thereby disturbed in the meantime, while in the end the negotiations did not come to a satisfactory termination —they propo se d measures, not st i pu l at i ng f or any reciprocal advantages from other countries; but believing the reductions they proposed to make to be intrinsically good, and calculated to promote their own interests, they were ready to make those reductions, trusting that the efficacy of this example would ulti mately tell on other countries. If her Majesty's Government had been wrong in their attempts to make these commercial treaties, at all events it was an error into which other Govern ments had also fallen. Up to the present period, every Ministry had attempted to make commercial treaties, and if other countries wi uld enter into them, it would doubtless secure a double advantage. It would secure the great advan tage of carrying on a traffic with many of those countries ; it would also be a great advantage if they induced those foreign nations to make reductions in their duties on the produce of this country. But the question was, should they 'impose .a great benefit to themselves, in the hope of, in time, prevailing on those other countries to give them the benefit of reciprocal treaties? The Noble Lord approved of the proposition of the Gover nment. —(Cheers.) Then, he also approved of the income-tax. If he did not, would the Noble Lord ask them to remove three millions of taxation without that tax ? It was impossible that Hon. Gentlemen opposite could, in the face of the country, reconcile the votes they were giving, with their speeches, under any other impression that would be favourable to thein,except that they approved in their hearts of the proposition of her Majesty's Government.—( Cheers.) Now, he must own, after reading the resolution of the Noble Lord, after having listened to a great part of the speech of the Noble Lord, he could not understand why the Noble Lord did not, the other evening, vote for the motion of the Hon. Member for Man chester (Mr. M. Gibson).—( Cheers.) A great part of the speech of the Noble Lord was occupied in showing that they were putting money in the pockets of the West Indians, by establishing in their favour a discriminating duty ; that that was a great loss to the consumer in this country ; that the State did not get the whole benefit of it; that the difference was not divided be tween the consumer and the producer, and that a large share of the reduction went into the pockets of the producers.--( Hear, hear.) Why, if he (Sir R. P ee l) h a d not read the re so l u ti on o f the Noble Lord, and had only listened to a portion of his speech, he should have taken it fur granted, that the Noble Lord was one of the Gentlemen who would have given their cordial support to the preposition of the Hon. Member for Manchester. The Noble Lord appeared to be oscillating between these benches and the benches opposite.—(Laughter and cheers.) For the Noble Lord had made that excellent speech in favour of the motion of the Hon. Member for Manchester, and then said, on account of the position of the West Indian colonies, con sidering the great experiment they made respecting slavery— considering that sufficient time hail not elapsed to test that ex periment, he was exactly of his (Sir R. Peel's) opinion, that the West Indies had a good right to protection." The Hon. Member for Stockport, assuming all the airs of an injured fair one—( Laughter)—said, on a former evening, that he (Sir Robert Peel) had jilted him.—( Great laughter.) He (Sir Robert Peel) f e lt very grateful to the Honourable Member for the support to which he had referred as having given him, on another occasion, on the proposition of the Honourable Member for Britt(); (Mr. Miles) when he (Sir R. Peel) had the good fortune to vote with the Hon. Gentleman, on the only occasion on which he had ever voted with him in his life. The proposition of the Hon. Member for Bristol was, that the duty on colonial sugar should be re duced to 205., and that there should be a discriminating duty on sugar produced by free labour, which was not sugar of British production. That was the proposition of the lion. Member for Bristol. He ( Sir R. Peel) said he thought die reduction of duty on West India sugar to 20s. would be of very I.ttle benefit to the general consumer, and that he thought it was infinitely better, when they made a reduction, that it should be such a reduction as would be felt ; and he had held this language that unless a discriminating • duty was established as to the pro duce of British plantations, they should not attempt to. impose a duty on sugar the produce of free labour. If the House would not sanction the imposition of a discriminating duty on su gar th e pro d uce of British plantations, they ought not on sugar th e p ro d uce o f f ree la b our. H e thought Hon Gentlemen mi g ht w i t h j ust i ce accuse the Noble Lord of "flirtation." The Noble Lord, at the beginning of the presen t session, said that " protection" was the bane of "agriculture." That phrase sounded remar k a bl y we ll; but. ifthequestt i o c n l were tu re N put to the Noble N o bl e L or d that all protection y ogru be removed, it wou ld b e f o und that the Noble L ord e would record his vote for the continuance of this bane of agriculture. —(Laughter, and cries of " Hear, hear.") The Noble Lord laid down the general principle that protection was the bane of agriculture. Lord JOHN RUSSELL made an observation which was inaudible in Op gallery. sir RW3EitT PELL—Oh, but the Noble Lord said, at the close of last session, that he thought agriculture wa fair entitled t o protection.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear," fromly the Ministerial benches.) He said he thought so, on account of the local charges to which agriculture was subjected, as well as on account of the malt -tax —(ltenewcd cries of " Hear, hear,,,)—arid the !Veld,. Lord did disturb the agricultural mind der rig the recess, by bolding out strong expectations that he should propose some measure for removing or dimini,hin g the malt -tax. —( Cheers, and cries of " lie ar, hear. ") II is agricultural friends—( Laughter ) —wei ein expectatio n of some proposition of this sort.--( Hear, hear.) But the Noble Lord would content himself with voting for his proposition for re moving the duty on cotton,-and the Noble Lord would vote with him.if the question should be introduced, notwithstanding his previous calculations against any reduction of the malt -tax. --(Laughter and cheers.) The non. Member should not say that he (Sir Robert Peel) had jilted him. It was the Noble Lord who had jilted him--( Renewed laughter) —with those fine promises; and when the Hon. Gentleman came to the Noble Lord, asking him to fulfil his decla-ations, the Noble Lord turned round and voted with him (Sir Robert Peel. )—( Cries of Hear, hear," in which Ilr. Cobden and other leading Members in the Opposition joined. ) lie thought it was better not to enter into all the details of the resolution. He would confine himself to the question w het her or not it was right that sugar, the produce of slave labour, shi.uld be admitted into competition with sugar, the produce of free labour. He was glad that this matter had been discussed in the tone and temper in which it had been. It was a question involving great financial considerations. Although linty hail been charged with hy pocrisy, he believed it was their duty as Ministers of the Crown to bear with those imputations. Every Ilo ' nourahle Gentleman who had used them had disclaimed any intention of giving offence ; but the Right Hon. Gentle man hail certainly charged them with dissimulation in no very courteous language. But the Right Hon. Gentleman added that though he disliked the proposition of the Government, nothing was further from his mind than to charge them with hypocrisy, " Although," he said, " you have recorded a reso lution recognising this principle, if it were not for that resolu tion and a mistaken idea of consistency, I am convinced you would have taken a different course, and one more in accord ance with your own convictions." In short that they, the Go vernment, would not have excluded slave-labour sugar from competition with sugar the produce of free-labour. Now, he must say, that having considered and reconsidered the subject, even if this resolution had not existed, he should not have been prepared to admit sugar the produce of slave labour into competition with sugar the produce of free labour. Notwithstanding the very able speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman, he did not think it would be just towards our colonies, or at all consistent with the principles which they had avowed in the face of the world, to admit sugar, the pro duce of slave-labour, at the same discriminating duty into competition with free-labour produce. First of all, concerning the q ues ti on o f policy. So far as this country was concerned,' if we regarded commerce and finance alone, he was bound at once to say that he could not defend this duty.—(Hcar, hear, from the Opposition.) He thought, upon mere ab stract reference either to finance or commercial considera tions, they ought not to make distinctions between free and slave-labour sugar. But it was impossible to dis regard the condition of the West Indian colonies.—( Hear.) He admitted that Parliament had behaved with great liberality so far as individuals were concerned, and that a great pecuniary sacrifice had been made ; but he did not think that pecuniary sacrifice, however onerous to the people of this country—however complete as a compensation in in dividual cases—and he doubted that it was complete—but he did not think, he repeated, that that relieved them from the necessity of considering in what relation we were to these co lonies, nor would it justify them in admitting slave-grown sugar into competition with theirs. Now, first as regarded the slave-trade and slavery. You would tell them in that case, to enter into competition with Brazil and Cuba, countries where not only slavery existed, but where the slave-trade was carried on to a great extent, and in violation of public engagements. No doubt but after some time the colonists, with free laboui , might be ultimately able to compete with slave labour. It might be gainful to the commerce of this country to admit sugar, the produce of slave-labour, and to the consumer as well, but it would so disturb the relations between this country and foreign countries, so materially interrupt progress towards an improved condition, and so disable the colonists from bear ing the burdens to which they were subjected, that he doubted whether, ultimately, if we maintained existing colonial rela tions, the sacrifice we would be obliged to make for their inte rest would not countervail any immediate advantages from sacrificing the produce of these colonies. The Right Hon. Gentleman asked how it was possible for them, with any re tard to consistency, to make the proposition they had made, looking at what they had done in respect to the admission of other articles the produce of slave-labour. How was it possible (continued the Right Hon. Gentleman) to make a proposition regarding particular articles, the produce of slave-labour, whiA they would not extend to other articles likewise the produce of slave-labour. And he referred in particular to articles the produce of the United States. The Right Hon. Gentleman spoke with the greatest indignation at the state of society there, in relation to slavery. He had not only ani madverted on the state of the law and usages of society there, but adverted to the declarations made by public men and the acts sanctioned by the constitutional organs of public opinion. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, that if there was any country against which the indignation of the civilised world should be directed it was the United States of Areerica—that the United States continued slavery in its most aggravated form—that there were some States which bred slaves for the purpose of labour—that the United States was the Power which had pre vented the extension of the right of search, which if universally adopted would be effectual. the Right Hon. Gentleman said that the present state of public opinion in France would not have existed if the United States had not resisted the right of search. All that might be true. But the United States had a right to continue this condition of slavery —they had a right to refuse being parties to the right of search. They might have been very unwise to take either one course or the other, but being an independent Power they had a per fect right to use that discretion. The Right Hon. Gentleman said that we admitted their cotton, and why thould we exclude their sugar ? The Noble Lord did not think that it would be wise to interfere with the proceedings in this matter of the United States. He did not think that it would be either right or vri.e to interfere with the slaves passing from one slave State to another. He seemed, indeed, as he bad said, to en tertain great doubts whether, by such interference, if he did in terfere, he would be in any way serving the interests of hu manity. But what, notwithstanding all this, did he sa) ? He charged the Government with hypocrisy, in refusing to admit sugar the produce of slave labour, while at the same time, by the repeal of the duty, they had given free admission to cotton, which was the produce of slave labour also. But what was the case? There was a material difference between the two articles—there was a material difference between the production of the sugar of Cuba and Brazil, and the cotton of the United States. The labour necessary for the production of cotton was far less than that necessary for the production of sugar. Again, there was a material difference also in the healthiness of the rotten plantations and the healthiness of the sugar plantations. But he (Sir R. Peel) did not mean to rely on that ; but he did rely on this—that the two countries which would enter into competition with the sugar of our colonial possessions —Cuba and Brazil —were placed under very different circumstances from those colonies, and it was necessary to consider this, in the imposition of the duties on sugar. The Noble Lord hail said that he recognised certain duties which he bad to fulfil to his own country and his family. The slaves, ho acknowledged, were so situated in relation to him as to givo them a claim on his humane interference. But he said, at the same time, that he doubted whether his inter-. Terence would do them any good. Now he ( Sir R. Peel) slid beiieve that the importation of slave-gr Own sugar into this country inflicted such an injury on the lowest and most help less of all human beings, and such indeed as to give them a claim on our sympathy and interference. He said this claim was the greater from the injury being inflicted on the most helpless of human beings —he meant the negro population. What was our position with respect to the slave trade? They had put themselves into a position to interfere with those countries which deal in slaves. We had resolved to do all in our power to pet down the slave trade wherever it might exist.—( Hear, hear.) For what purpose, he would ask the Noble Lord, was it, if not for this, that this country hail constituted its cruisers the ge neral police of the world? The Noble Lord thought that we were unwise in this respect, and that might be, but we had used our utmost exertions to put down the slave trade. Other countries had engaged to co-operate with us in this great object. Many persons say that we are unwise in having entered into this undertaking. He did not argue with them, he argued with that House; and he did say, that having entered into that undertaking, it was their duty to carry it ou t. I n 1 837, the Hon. Member f or O x f or d had said that those countries would zealousy co-operate with us in the suppression of the slave trade. They had accordingly entered into treaties with Spain and Portugal for this object, and the Governments of those countries would do their utmost to suppress that abominable traffic. From various circumstances, the effect of this traffic was removed from us. We did not carry on the slave trade ourselves, and, therefore, its horrors were not brought before us. But he did believe that those horrors were in no way de creased, and he had a firm conviction that, if the sugar, the produce of slave-labour, were to be introduced into this coun try, it would give a very great stimulus to the slave trade, and increase those horrors which we had been at so much pains and expense to prevent. It was thought, and said by some, the anti-slave trade feeling was extinct in this country, but he believed that such was not the case, and that if the exertions which had of late years been made by the country to suppress the slave trade had rendered that feeling dormant, it had not by any means been extinguished. He did believe that, though dormant now, the feeling would immediately revive if any measures were to be taken which were likely in any way to re vive the horrors which that feeling protected. What were these horrors? In a space where the decks were only from two to two-and-a-half feet apart, between 600 and 700 human beings were crowded and transferred in that state from the coast of Africa to Cuba and Brazil. Only conceive the hor rors of from 600 to 700 human beings being crowded into such a space, and enduring through the whole of the Middle Pas sage in a confinement of two feet -and-a-half. On their arrival in Brazil, their limbs were so paralysed that they were unfit for the business for which they had been conveyed there. The two countries which carry on the slave-trade are those countries whose produce the Noble Lord was desirous to in troduce without discriminating duties. Beside the advantage which those countries possessed in the cheapness of slave labour, there was also another. In Brazil there was more fresh land, virgin land, than in any other from which sugar was introduced into this country. Now, the opening of the markets for the importation of Brazilian sugar, without any differential duty, would be greatly instrumental in promoting slavery. The effect of the efforts of this country showed the full advantage derived in the suppression of the slave trade. Last :year the number of vessels captured and condemned was thirty-seven or forty-seven vessels. In 1844, as compared with 1843, it appeared that the vessels condemned by the Commission Courts—he did not allude to the Admiralty Courts—was in 1843 fifteen, while in 1844 they were thirty five. 7 his, it might be said, was an imperfect test, and he was bound to a ll ow i t , f or h e b e li eved that as many slaves were he now landed o n th e coast o f B raz i l as there ever were. They did ith nut dimini s h, b ut t hi s was no f au l t o f the arran g ements their that country, but the fact w as the authorities neglec ted eneral Valde z duty in thi s ma tt er . I n Cuba, ( who was appointed honour himself be to the office by Espart ero ) whenwas G spoken, he the Traci hoGneosvtelyrnor, and to hi s earnestly exert ed slave trade. During his government the eff o rt s t o t h at end lself it to were eminently successful, and the number of s l aves intro duced into Cuba declined from 13,800 t o 12,0 00, to 10 000 and in 1842 to 3,t 00. And he ( Sir R. P ee l) b elieved, that if General V a ldez had remained, the slave trade in Cuba would have been altogether suppressed. In Brazil, he be lieved the authorities were equally sincere, but private inte terest had proved too powerful for public duty, and the slave trade had revived, and, with out t h e concurrence of the au thorities, he believed it would revive. W ou l d it be consis ehecosalastveof trade,A fr ic a and,, for the tent otsotenhsaivbe a navalpurpose of armament presenting at the same time, to have vessels laden hw it sugar, the produce and the support of that trade, sailing from Cub and to our ports ?—( Cheers.) Those countries had entered into engagements with us for prohibiting the slave trade, but they had not fulfilled those engagements..—( Hear, h ear . ) He must a d m i t that there seemed to be some inconsistency in aldowing the importation of slave-grown cotton, and pro hibiting sugar.— ( Hear.) He owned it was difficult to take any course on those subjects that would not be liable to the imputation of inconsistency. But he did not think that any one on the opposite side of the House would prohibit the illlpertation of cotton which was the production of slave labour. —( Hear, hear.) But the question was, whether the importa tion of Lugar from Brazil and Cuba, whic h was the great CUTIO MAXIM S AND OPINIONS OF THE DUKE OF WEL LINGTON. —A volume has just bPui pubished under the .. above ti t le , which must (meet a welc o me l y eception from all the admirers of the Noble Duke. The Editor oh serves —" Almost all preceding works of which the Duke of Wellington has formed the subject, have been almost exclusively occukied with the military exploits which rendered him so illustrious during the first twenty years of his public life, while his political career has been cow-- paratively neglected. The Editor of these pages has therefore endeavoured to supply materials by which a just estimate may be formed of the Duke of Welling ton's elairnias a Minister and a Statesman. The volume Will be found to contain the Duke's deliberate opinions upon all the great questions which have agitated the. public mind since the commencement of the present century." Dispatches were sent off yesterday evening . .fpost! i r lic Colonial-office, for Sir R. R. Wilson, Governor of Gibral ta r . The great number of letters which we have rece i v ed ._ eonticetoil with on the subject of the glass duty, t c 1 e it, *how how lively an interest is takenalihiis."s:tgitilt7taitiritsit:xoirett)i-letoGre=e ment financial scheme. Above all, t?ure w ei g hs so heavily on flint.giass the impression that the Present dudt3 wine-olasses are ;mule. Inqtead the niattal of Which decanters on and value ' of the article, it seesn ' s mit t o o t. ete ng oa lm l4e r r . 31) (tLi pe . r -c T a l l :e t 'circular whieh 'MIS noticed yes terday was for the purpose of showing, . , that on the rich fl int - glass articles no re,- auction of „i ce would' tie• namievantd,Oke ;dole are evincing Inu`e.ibt. eagerness to t403119C tlie natict of the public lu this respeet..--Tinies, • •••••••, 0r the negro race, was to be permitted or not The growth of sugar in those countries was . the gi ealeA ag - gravatien of all the horrors of the : slave frade.—( Hear, hear.) The quest on was not whether we were inconsistent or not, but w list was the c..urs:- which we. sh.iu;d enosider 3.111 - ,ti:=, all thiri;s ed, for pi.nnotisg the great interns s of burnssit We had entered into engagements with other Covernme.res, who joined with us in establishing a sort of naval folice on the coast of Africa. Now, they might depend upon it, that if tlrs country were to take inea,ures fur e. rivirg an un limited quantity Of sugar from Cuba alai lb soil, we could not expect the co-operation of the Governments who ailed us in our efforts for the suppres , i in of the slave-tras'e, whilst we encouraged it with one hand, and thwarted it feebly with the other. He believed that the Governments of Europe were alive to the real state of this question. They felt that after the measures we had taken it was not safe for them to continue slavery in their own posses sions in its present state.--( Hear, hear. ) The King of Swede n hail very recently taken measure s for its nio.liticatiol l i c i hispossessions; . i iliti s .sw•a stnl artrl t u h s e s 71: of abolition I ;ti i t ) k )a . is A h Iwtiiion, most numerously signed, had been presentfil to the Staves, prayin g slavery' to cease.—( Cheers.) In Frarir e the question was under serious consideratiii n whe: her Is v should be continued or not. A nil Portegsl was making, lionouisble ef forts to fulfil her engagements with this country. Even the United States, where there were peculiar irb.t.ic'e. , —e here there had been a resoluti en of Conge r as that no petition for the alsilition of slavery should be received; public feeling was un dergoing a change—the resolution is as rescinded, arid now it was competent for every Member to present such a pel ninth— ( Cheers. ) He might venture to say that, notwithstanding the state of public feeling in the United States, it would be very difficult to maintain slavery there on its present footin g . It was not for him to offer any opinion upon the. internal po licy of the United States—(hear, hear)— but, speakin g of Europe, he believed that there prevailed through(;,.r.- many, France, Sweden, and Denmark, a stron g opi n i on th a t th e . time had arrived When they ought to follow the example of England—(Cheers) —that the time had arrived when an puil should be put to the state of slavery.—(Cheers. ) Ile hoped that the House winild not come to any decision which would interrupt that course into which the current of public opinion throughout Europe had turned.—( Hear, hear.) England was now admitted to be the only power that took effective measures for the suppression of slavery —which made vigorous, deter mined efforts to put down the slave trade on the coast of Africa. —( Hear, hear.) There might be an inconsistency in ad mitting cotton the produce of slave countries; but that inconsistency did not affect the moral position whivh England held in the eves of Europe on this question. The ettbrts which we had made were acknowledged as most generous, and even splendid. But if we departed from that course—if we unintentionally, but practically and certainly, encouraged the slave trade, by admitting the sugar of Cuba and Brazil, it would be an admission that their efforts had failed, and it would appear to justify the assertion of Mr. Colquhoun, that we were reviving the slave trade on the coast o Africa under the name of apprenticeship. Whatever imputa tion might have been cast upon him (Sir R. Peel) for the course which he had taken upon the resolutions in Mil, lie assured the House that if he now stood unfettered, he would vote against the proposition of the Noble Lord—that sugar, the pro duce of slave labour, should be admitted into the markets tif Great Britain.—( Cheers.) Lard PA LMERSTON said that, whatever might be the re sult of the debate, nothing could be more satisfactory to him than the discussion.--( Cheers and a laugh.) The It ight Ik on. Baronet had made no attempt to answer the arguments 'thief' had been urged in favour of his Noble Friend's proposition.— ( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet, as was usual with expert d•-baters, began his speech with topics in no way relavant to the question. The Right Hon. Baronet began with the income-tax, and taunted the Opposition with inconsistency in supporting that tax, and complaining that use had not been made of the surplus, so as to enable the Govetriment to dispense with it at the end of three years.— ( Hear, hear. ) It was perfectly consistent fur men to think that protection was the bane of the interests which it was meant to prosper, and at the same time that it was not ex pedient to aithdraw it from the interests which had been long vested upon its faith. The Right Hon. Baronet had taunted the Opposition with their want of success in their commercial treaties with foreign Powers. Now, the Right lion. Baronet some years ago seemed to expect that when lie came into office he would be able to settle these matters. What was the fact ? Why, the Right Hon. Baronet's Government had en tirely failed.—( Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet threw over the commercial and financial part of this question, and justified the distinction they made between free-grown sugar and slave•grown sugar, on the ground that they had under taken to do all they could to suppress the slave trade. In this respect, his ground was much narrower than the ground taken up by his Right Hots. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade, because they took their stand upon the general prin ciple of humanity, and contended, upon that principle, that the country ought to do everything toward discouraging slavery and the slave trade. The Right lion. Baronet renounced this advantage, and took his stand upon the arrangements existing between foreign Powers and Great Britain, on the subject of the slave trade. The Right Hon. Baronet, in reply to the un answerable argument of his Hon. Friend the Member for Etlin • burgh, founded upon the importation of cotton, said the United States had not entered into a negotiation with tl.is country, and, therefore, none had been violated. The United States were free from any engagements, and of c ourse t h ey h a d , said the Right Hon. B aronet , a right to breed slaves and employ them in the production of cotton. But, with regard to Brazil, the case was different, and he made the distinctio n to punish them for doing that which they hail undertaken not to do. The Right Honourable Baronet had thus avoided the principle of humanity, and thrown himself solely upon the rights given to this country by the treaties. Brazil and Spain had entered into treaties, by which they bound themselves not to prosecute their trade in slaves. Those treaties were broken, and, there fore, as a punishment, this Government said they were enti tled to say their slave produce should not be admitted. If this argument, however, applied to one, it was applicable to all import duties on slave produce. If this p rotection were given to sugar, it ought to be given to coffee. But what did the Goverdreent do last year? Why, they re duced the discriminating duty on Brazilian coffee, the produce of slave-labour.— ( Heat, hear.) This they did last year, but had they done nothing this year in direct violation of their principles? The Government proposed to reduce the duty on copper ore, and where did copper ore come from ? From Cuba. How was it got from the bowels of the earth ? 13y the labour of slaves.—(Hear, hear.) Thus by the tariff of last year, and by the measures d, the G overnment d i rectly violated the principle p s ropose they asked the House to sanction—( Hear, hear)—and withheld from the population of this country comforts and indulgences which might otherwise be afforded to them. But lie must say that this course was inconsistent front beginning to end. He need hardly say that lie concurred in all that had fallen from the Right Honourable Baronet about the horrors of the slave trade. It was a mat ter upon which the people and Parliament had always been united, and however strongly Honourable Members op posite might declare that the Opposition only agravated the slave-trade by their present course, he would. venture to say, that there were those out of doors, who would confirm their opinion. Instead of the evils being increased there was no doubt they had been greatly diminished. In the year 1840, 1841, anti 184", the number of slaves imported into Cuba and the Brazils hail very considerably fallen off, and no one denied the assertion of the Right Honourable Ba ronet that this change had resulted from exer tions made by the Government to suppress the traffic. Now, though lie should feel sorry that there was any division of opinion upon this subject, he was very glad to hear the state ment of her Majesty's Ministers, that it was their intention not to relax in their endeavours until the slave trade should be en tirely done away with. But whatever the opinion of the Go- • vernment should be on this question, or whatever their argu ments might .be in support of this absurd doctrine of protection, lie would ask how they meant to cleft Rd the course they intended to pursue of continuing this protection? Of what value, he would ask, would it be to the country that large estimates for the naval force should be granted, in order to keep up a number of armed vessels on the slave coasts, if those vessels had not the power of the right of search ?_( Hear, hear.) What had been the object of ail modern Governments of England on this question ? In the year 1814 it was a great object of Lord Castlereagh, and it was with that view that he entered into a treaty with Gena, anti a few years after wards the Duke of Wellington tried to get a consent from France for the abolition of slavery, but he found it to be impossible. Again, in the year 1818, the same experiment was tried with France, but again a refusal was the result. The same experiment was tried in 1823, and again in 1827, and with a like result. Well, then, the present Government came into office, and what did they do? Why, so far from following up this subject with perseverance, they recklessly threw it over board altogether.--( Hear, hear.) Then came the letter of Loid Aberdeen, which was now on the table, and that letter recommended the trial of an experiment as a substitute for what previous Governments recommended.—( Hear, hear.) Now, he would ask, what would b e the result, if '20,000 tons of sugar were taken out of the market ; whether that were the produce of slave labour or free labour, it would create a void which should be made up, and until it was, the price of what remained would be increased.—( Hear, hear. ) Therefore it would be quite absurd to make distinctions which admitted of no difference, as in the proposed plan of the Go vernment. Therefore, whatever might have been the argu ments of Honourable Members opposite, there was no real ground on which they could support them ; and when those arguments came to be read by the public, and particularly the speech of his Itglit Honourable Friend the Member for Edinburgh, the opinion of the public would be that the interests of the consumers had been sacri ficed without any consideration for humanity', but that it had been done merely to promote the West India interests, which in the end it would be found had not been benefitted, but pa ralysed by such legislation, and upon whom real benefit would be conferred if all protection were withdrawn, arid a fair and full and free competition given' to every bran c h of i n d us t ry . Sir C. NAPIER contended that sugar would be shipped from Cuba and Brazil and sent to Florida, reshipped to this country, and admitted as free-labour sugar. As to the slave trade, he believed that sending vessels to the coast of Africa unless t t h o ey sat p t n e a c v r e u . i t s r e a r d s e ra t o t t h h a e t e oas escapedt of had put words into the mouth o f th e N o bl e L ord the Mem f l3" ro ar m asziu t ls h e e laen e s oast of Africa.—( Hear.) Th e Iti g ht H on. G entlematt ds' for the City of London, which he (Sir C. Napier) did n o t think the Noble Lord had used. The Right Hon. Baronet stated that the Noble Lord had said that the slavers only eon_ tained two feet of stowage' room for the slaves. This was evidently a mistake, for two feet would not be sufficient t stow a turkey in.—(Laughter, anti cries of " Di v i de, " ) o Strangers were then ordered to vvitbdraw, and the House divided, when there appeared-- For m t e orders rr a i its t amendment y g • o e .fap . d t. a m h. e day ..... amendment....... ... . e. . t .. s: 02s 1 e3 4 d6 2 ,0 f 4, and The ot A h e g r a e the House adjourned shortly before one o'clock. ----. ) be of a t 613. by 011 On' 01 • v ly ea/ i 6 t • r. 0 00' the c aSe . : ;hei r tO .1 CO" for a,. ' duc f e orog" rn n U nder i hat the y to Id eve id n' pre jio r_ 9 rould " in ere3 s :::; ,boo r b." .j go' 3 os t re g'''ost it gal r f o , erY 111) toy so lo 'vet' cool - - 1 / II