The Sun. — London, England, 1845-03-01 00:00:00

~ '", Rous --- from bei n - e ought to interpose and prevent that power If th. ~,,e,,ercited with spite and tyranny.-( Hear, hear.) the H on linaster had done rightly in interrupting the letters of t her e • : Member for Finsbur - Y, that ought. to be shown, and I tra e'llid be no reason for Opposing the inquiry.-( Hear, di ) Ile had head with regret-he is oul , l not say with f or B 7„ t T, the Personal at!aelzs made upon the lion. Member att ac k';'"nrY• The Hou'se and the public knew what those m fiterti e p er , e ,‘"nh• and he would now content himself with h ard •e,.,:e motion,-(Cheer;. ) troubb, tiLINCOLN should not have thought it necessary ._h to . ilal, a ; e iltAtse, after the very temperate explanation ... lilt forth, Ktt piece in the course of the evening, if it had not been i qentle,rtlirti given to the discussion by the lion and Lea , rne , i , h td bt e : :an wil ° hurl just. -at down. A great deal of load ic . it hit, ii,_ s D premed out of doors by exaggerated statements in the R°_ Se, 11,. cl•• e new u sa „ ... , ••p eeatrd the personal character the debate was Ne ro "'ln, They had been told that that was no question rat her ti gt ~, bet that the Hon. Member for Finsbury lel fieemand an explanation in order to clear his own c la -4,l_._reel the imuntatiuns which had been cast upon it. •l he I/ '•_reel fort Cockermouth (Mr. Aglionby) and other On m , ' l 4l „h "nhers again said that this was not a question of vi . - ,aghts .arseter as it ouebt to be one of privilege, and that it :t/i.MAbe inquired int:, as such. ~The EGI,4IO,NBY-I never said so. ', l Qii, L '''' of L I NCOL t had been asked of the Rigl i it UN ia:mnet whether he hail issued a warrant or no, ? 1 e Rtu r i b •Ineoln) could not cone , .ive of any more unfair way of 1 1,t 0 ,1 at a c(31,111,io then that of asking the Right Hon. 4' '''t ''ch a g e'e stio r' There was a paragraph in that re vioiyhat the secrecy r n if " / tcor-capendeilee had not been ths 4";elltints under a ) . r s i v ‘ a a rr e an - t, ' and therefore the case of t cler •;; al ens ' er fell to the ground. He would not then t crat er i nto ,_ th e general question' of the powers confer d re n d tt i t. s o . ir e , s a'lthteue Secretary of State ; but he w . as j . 4 ,'."t• of 1 :_:"e . 11 F had previ••usly entertained ü b st - Ifi t e he l argu- Ne b, „" Solie itor-General. He hoped t iat ) they - wou a l t i t l 'ad a , / Ine decision of the Secret Committee, and so put s st r i y, ee le those acrimonious feelings which then, unfortu tAlr. I„ e , r n e but too frequent on eitlrr side of the Howe. p r e r n. li a : l ti - a e rl u.ll, IS explained. He had not made the slightest d s •n to the Right Hon. Baronet. He had_ to . u . n r 4'5i,) had i n u o. his Offi ce an d h e had acted upon it. feelings of V li ght 1-1,11 Rare he slightest wish to wound the I ;411:41Tl'boech,EiltnNAteLeh;s1FeiFithat th e o n u t gh be must allow a pre to the Noble L , rd the 111, the r p fl t r Lo clinical he argument still main•ain that the ocers Se ore, a alhe ° :` t "l in opening and detaining letters without td , l ulat ed ,11',,Y ,t warrant from b the Secretary of State, lean 'liit,arh':ttivilees of that House.. , werend to _ en l' er. 11 0 ,Ae t„,ZY d iscossion, and they bound that ,': l 'ulls s , 1 tf the lion. Member fort he fully 'the fully believed ne t Cirtaie Finsburylett,°.r had stated that Als o ," b ` l P refee r i i ;:" of 4 , d ( el. ! his had been opene f . good, and here he could Ish, h e to the exclamations o _ C e of the Hon. 'lid ~ kn d iie b ,• 44 sat upon the Secret ,ointnittee , . _ , 0 , : , ie.... lie,", °t i titend e ,L i !ved the Hon. Member for Kendal ,aid ? , t , t i ish '',as not prat's, and another said, " I did intend th t a h . at e s -- oho kin;•-• .Ilia or those who was unwilling to believ o e thity, b Itted v tly stated ; but here there had been n , s ft Friend complained that his letters had C O ot. 1 ) zi,,1 . un. had la se At t h at Let them see whether they . had been opened or tel il f alkl e .moment he did not beli,ve any admission had Aorta'''' that' "he SaW nothing in the report to warrant the migh t their there was such- lf they had thought it fhghl a t ~e,'',while to state their case of the Italians, they ers li s e' i l have referred to the eve of the Hon. Membe h r. let,, l Ale sn e h 'thing fallen from the Right lion. Baronet or t e , '::of th - : 11 , on that side to lead him to hetieve that the Wat e, h - 'lon. iThsmber had been opened or not, and, attle ,; said that the Noble Lord the Member for London s ts 4ll er ''',,' de gradation" was quite conclusive. The Hon. 110 ta 4 C r ,e 3 ented a large constituency, and they had every . liAt s . e eve that the decision of that Secret Committer tt ! t e llt l el l o r t : . 3f b a CturY to that constituency.. Why . should not the hi t , r sof th uaronet at once admit that it was so, that the a ttir • s etia _ •.. emberfor . Iller e li ' m M Finsbury had been opened by meat u ldb,, ns and by his authority, and that that course . was . e,,,,,!t; Th"? or. why should he - not say, ." I know nothing 1 5 . Ith.., v e ls•ued no warrant for o . y,ening H an e y si o w f u h u is let (),ln,los, 1 jl. Would be perfectly satisfac, ory. like atili,4 the n at there was in the atmosphere that cur afr/ i oto Secretary of State that should , . h . der their 111 st: 4, 1(1411 til l' question ? He would ask iirn i , n _ . sincer a ll i r . ~.,itter e, ,,. Y , what it was that surrounded lairn, . and I t 't t ' ilo '' e tl e i t a h ‘ n t a d y t tmh b f i n , m ondin , to e 6uportant t ‘ to, that inquiry H . ena 4 h• es and why not this ?He ts d -11 of ~ e Right Hon. baronet had . committed an in 414,1aered t ut duties, if he had done anything that so solemn ' t had la aPPeal would not compel him to disclose. The tt,llest• t he said t much or too little. It ought to hase 111' 5 4P ata lr e elY silent, orntoohave disclosed all. He . asked the tt 4 'llsr, 'lt Whether that responsibility rested entirely on the . l i 't dirident the hp rttizt lion. Baronet, or whether they should it :t '' i r l ata t t „` "lulu amongthem ? He trusted that the t ßi n g o i e 1it403 sah, t i . ; w ould put an end to the discussion, by a nonce Ptais i f Aerr,the allegations against him were true or _ r . a. ist,ltti ci te ViRIS said that they ought to feel a debt of qt 4 ,4 43 42 'tight Hon. Baronet, for his suppression of the ?115t;,14°Yreer,'jihen thousands and tens of thousands were o , 4 5,, ler' for p'. and roaming idly over the country. . The Hon. 'gat 'P s titin' ins hury had, during those troubled times, pre ttis h lt th i', n ,' f rom bodies of Chartists, and he was of opinion N t sl ti kh a- t s'n.,e, he was more or less connected with them. 11'ne h t - e Right Hon. Baronet, in issuing these warrants, ,i.` is e ,, ethi * e t Might more than his duty. :, 4 , ~,K, ~ Hattr° NI it 'LY said the Hon. alember who had just sat ~'ll,4sclric;riaetilinot,hiat he considered that the Right lion. Ba- Nth s trab er inlng more than his duty He believed the ON, " a gallant officer, and he should like to know, k(l'dt,4,tes,Zint which the Hon. Alember was engaged, how he ' s le kh e a an had done his duty or not, if he k ~i , " in lel t R 5i., at ti e , la manner it had been done ?-(Hear. 'NI' did 'Y eurnplained of was this. The Right Hon. 4t st i nuo h 't let them know what he had done. .The r‘tesl4N.urble Gentleman had relieved this question I l ion w_ 4 'tle Nth h% f rorn its personal difficulties. The Right re r 4' d k 4 ( 1 1- Made a strong and honourable avowal that ti ll ' e Ib e 1 ,"rne to his knowledge, whether . he had Rat are, o r e ' t t li e rs or not, which injured his Honourable , p oec t oted his honour or character as a gentleman, I'4:/to4,l'ae.,:all satisfactory so far as the personal question kti4 t t he t.i'' s atisfactory to his Hon. Colleague--Satisf t sc : P lr l'i l h .. t ° th e satisfactory to the constituency, and sa„is 4 4 too by th at country. But the public nues b tion- : the great 1 ' " 4, 4t Personal declaration was in is oi ihion left 'fhll cet it rernai d - eel D selv where it was. It was in tr Il. alte r .i •- ne • r by" that admission on the part 0.44„1,tht Icon eu in character . • Pc ii - " the . Genteman. isdHoannd. Noble fly delighted . Lord of the ''he - tits Ik t , 1,, commend the si . 5. 5 11' ' C i'ski` le Noble Lord said he was pleased withit o , t a h n e d r rts ..htiak.te'e!) hoped he had derived pleasure from I' ttle t , l4 hi t i ln that side of the _louse. by The reply to the al,l'ts kp 'n th, j'n• Colleague was made Home D li'," lll ll;ahle s p‘lcrelary of State for the . epartment. the Right lion. 11, 1 '41 t ','••-s( ts' e PtY• As a piece of special pleading it was) ) '',,,t r `, 4 4 ",i':4l.. hear ) He could not help remarking l '',tl:i,, m i c trie,,',' Right hon. Baronet h . ad been brought up to 4 i th r ',.( 1., "ate reached an extraordinary eminence in that Qt t r -e ,.._wat a ' o l lg . h . ter.) It was an exceedingly able speech, 1,1',,:, (e-•,-,ditl.,,eLlaratiotl in that speech which struck him as tv'e st , 41%11:5.1' Peculiar. It was made while the Right 0,;,,144 4 . i' t. ' was considering what had transpired in this ' s ei ‘'hi el , " Right Hon. Gentlem . an, whe he came to D L ls 1-,,Yst4t.:', oecurred on the 2.1, 16th, i 18th of July, s ti r `kre t e h ti t hat his lion. Colleague, when he brow ht the ' k ' , e llo t k , l th:, "ouse in the first instance, declared in the t''r'd th:: titiese that his letters had been opene that s. t "lt, ‘t ,' CR A°l: statement on the 16th and 18th of July. '' kl iti .4l ( ' l . 2p l , :\ l-No ; on the 2d and 18th. f,,, ° o'l o '-',l continued -Then the Right Hon. Bare- Otoi.''tis, t t tnat statement by saying what ?- h t he had l before a two I, , , tl )thi. tt Ni, „',t his case had been heard 50p"R, 0,,;"' that before the Committee he had stated e f t 'lt i' l°e 'r h" Yth ing that had transpired with respect to the Ao h t ls th A4 clis,l,.n• Colleague ,• that by the Committee the 1 1 . 4 1 , 41) , iqueen he ard. ‘` And," said the Right 1i0n , . , it '" 'l4, h ( t. l . l ; a h e. c",; () Y ii t e l , l s Committee I am honourably acquitted. "ti, 'it, ':1 h.. Eros-had they acquitted him? His Hen. i t I lli h t not , ,`' e tl put upon his trial, and . why had the )klhi, 0 ms. quitted hint? Now, he considered that made i,s: r s eh. p- i Gentleman had the I, i ~,io i, -sp ert t he Lig it Hon. , l i t l i "ti ' s to ' had changed the character of ' s ‘ t t l )l, 4 t . t ati:,:` g jeat extent. The Right Hon. Gentleman,eb2_ l'4 1. 11 0 : , (46,7 nad throw n the responsibility in a great tt r e n e of t, l 't's, Ic• Ng Hall rested upon him, upon the Commi . C I , e 4 511 e o bserve the Hon. Gentleman the Me . mbe!for at Red • . ' 1 11, t aiie Peep, t "il his place in Parliament, that his letters ' i° ' , e 'eli e m and the Rightßaronet stated that the 11;,tlaiNt0-,7nenced their inquiry with a full knowledge ,, o l 1 1'.' 1 % -°ro th,-'4,",mes• The Right Hon. Baronet . said, _ h'ii."'llitti'l'atrt-I,`"ltrnmittee and stated everything without te i stt ° ',l t ue , 13 1 "',.:• Thus on the admission of the Right o*cat., e In a o r t ,... 4 et) he stated ' all that transpired with 41 ,, ' "all e t,;rning of letters, and of course, in making s'e, s,:„hae . ri n ' e ,allegati on of his Hen. Colleague. But the f f .,'' . 1.;',..' . I ` o ll, li g ri n k eard all the Committee having heard o g u i l t .:tt '''.. a t'''"ing he - arci everything connected with the - 1 1 t- e 1.',,, e 'te w i f reference was made in the t, 14'4 ei ntitt 01"( . 0 W1'51., 41 . i, Alth ee relating to the accusation of his lion. Nlinti "nil s c ' a ßh the hie' t lion. Baronet had acquitted •ts •aa 5- Rtle • - 1 , through the Li ,.,, ti l i',.. in the face of the country, ,V 5 rs'inette,'„the Right Hon. Gentleman had made, he 4, 1 s t . Pe t r, Tat he would stand condemned in the eyes kti r ate o ", ch,„ uY the Committee of that House.--( Hear, iit' in -` on buttes ) Could the Members of that House 14 ts this Athlie groun s o allow an Hon. Member to re- L ikhtite n ris 4 '°n through, the conduct of a Secret Com -7ol.t_to:'l,",,Lell, Tn ia : l ,t. " . 7 _lie said, then, the_ Committee had acted, Ti h sl. ik a 1 unfairly with his lion. Colleague, and it , I ,ikOte t ,''er to t al lesson to them never to confide their privi '`.` li t ",O,OeY secret tribunal of that House, whatever tlt r (11, the 61intrin, whatever might be the ability, or whatever Ntiptil,ll,2,raeter of the individuals who might compose , 11 1 i ! t ill e f t , th e r ' t ) , He considered, in consequence of the de lit' t''' she it) Hon Gentleman, ' it was necessary that c4;.4 4, 44,--- traiispir ' The case ould not by any possi t'll'lheib'Y Would accede to the motion of his lion. 4 ' t p i ,nast ifq't l the parties at the Post-office to come to a15, ,, 0 0 , - tetter"se, and state la • whose authority they had ' 5 , r t d;. t d th ey - c ' f his lion Coil ) ague If this course were 4:01 1 0t ega rd i t, ',quiet be d ' isrega e rding . their own privileges, ts o '4, 11 tit, theß their own privileges they disregard . ed . the fi r al ~,t for " Ples because the privileges were originally 4,ttilttietrinktert be nefit of ' individual - Members, but for the gaill'' a r e ,,had °,!tha community at large. If the Right Hon. y ill'i'', had-"eed warrants for the opening of these e. o i 'll tt4 ,:t -.;e acted , .a s the washt Hon. Gentleman said. a; l t t s l ;al e '), theli-e"°,l where he difficulty of making a ' -'las '',` a mid -use to that effect? If the Right Hon. e rk s tly ist tholleried letters Wth without warrants, he could only , h ss.' l4 ti itlt th t i her i e ne lli •g ht Hon. Ge l Gentleman would be an enemy 44 h, I matt er iglrY• This ought to induce the House to 4. ll:tos th ',4 ' or an b efn H i! Hon. Colleague stood in a different A k ` e att ' -re ttle speech of the Right Hon. Baronet, i s . i c ,gt e i h , on tt , „7 . ought to be ia :s_ l lik:l:ett':i.'tis inquiry Ought to be had Although the finished, between . the IdtighAtltHhonung. hGothne. 17ttt,?' P t rn die instituted, still the House, .in his opinion, , sv eu w..,,,,,5.titut, a public investigation. lie . hop . ed ii ti i ` , ,,,,..' eorrectritt not relax in his exertions until it was klttittll4.l,Vtletit.r, hYe:rnd)distinetly whether the law had been laylketi,l'cr 1 1 l th e one partofspeech of the Noble Lord th. th!ti, „ n e e i ,.. _.. the tsi ~0 , 4 t ~'_'.e ~,,,,..Yr _ Ot London he had heard with peculiar ti l th,, Nre- nil e li e ' "°` - 'd the Noble Lord distinctly to t h te ht , a tt ,,,,ent h ad . differed, with the course which Iti et .Le i t , en.se „ f taken respecting the opening of letters ° . t .ent thqes Protnoting their interests for other than ..t lle ' tio 4 e k r t he ee 3 ,, e i t st;11 , in the case of M. slazzini, he , ts„ la:. ' , Me et r t w i t which had been given on the part ' II ' 44 -eed i ----v 's that tley formed n - o part whatev . er ar' 'z' cif the refugees that the measures ot the have involved the refugees . _ l a n , k it i ll i , j l, ls ll t a l : rti, e ' Z ,l. t , hi i t t , . therefore, the explanation N , ' , to I:, e k, h qt, sd 'sion jf ."tetory. lie regretted greatly ti's p i aer s i _ flit ~,._,;tit Noble Lord on a former oceasioii, 11 tit4:s, tsatisketillanation which had been given would t i 4 l t Int N t l e t ,, ft , :al l' i i ,,,, r4 p 6 ; ( % 'k u n s is coiNlleapart s m or ne t e hat discussion could pain than that there s. t l, nuli h , It.h °xi on the minds of the House that they ''? ' t Y h ' ' a rl other to 104 % -id k r eleet, t , er s - owe r for the purpose of encou tb: et rc : tl lti uk'e n It ' ue success of which was most improbable. It Ills Nest r Nrirl u Patt Y tl any of the proceedings of the th Puhii e t would have rendered them liable to l ' .4 l , r t , t t Y t ‘ll,:rieheLed tch:ll,,srpleasure. lie would say further, if t llli c ltlo r , 4 .'q it i,.,r oc eedlrigs were likely to take place 1, L i m 'ree l in.. .. their power by means of warning, to 1, as pd,',:rring danger, he thought it would have "'"'c men and as Cristiaus, to have given 1 Hon• :0 ilia r their ic'► of ot THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 1 1P45. independence, or the independence of any other man who may have sat, or may sit., on this side of the House, But again I repeat, that being in the position which I hold, I will pursue that. course which I believe to be for the public interest, And if in pursuing that object mys,lf, I shall have the Hon. Gentleman's vituperation, arid even the loss of the confidence of this side of the House as a penalty, to that. penalty I shall be ready to how, and to submit to the consequences:—(Cheers.) Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and tho Ilouse divided, when there appeared:- - For the motion . Against it lt3B Majority against the motion SUGAR DUTIES. On the motion for going into a Committee of Ways and Mean?, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated, in answer to a question put by L , . , rd John Russell, that various difficulties always arose when it was proposed to make a reduc tion or duty. With regard to those persons to whom the Noble Lord had referred—namely, those who had sugar in bond, and their claim for an allowance, he (the Chancellor of the Ex chequer) could really see no difference between them and thoseiwho paid the duty and took away the sugar to their own warehouses. But, however, he thought it fair on reflection to limit the commencement of the new duty to the 1 4th of March, so that the parties might be able to get rid of their stocks by that time. the average prices of sugar in Calciatta, that this was not quite so profitable a trade as it was supposed, fur he un derstood that there was a vague idea abroad that sugar could be made for nothing in India. He was well aware that those who exported sugar from India, from the year 1636 and several years after, if they did not lose by it they certainly made very little. Perhaps lion. - Members did not know that sugar in India was grown in a manner very different from that of the West Indies. In the one the cane grew on the plantation where the sugar was manufactured, while in the latter the saccharine juice was conveyed away in pots to a considerable distance, and at considerable expense. He would not dwell longer upon the subject, but he trusted he had shown what the elect of the proposed measure would he on the manufacturer, the retail dealer, and on the public. If the House should determine that those discriminating duties s h ou ld be continued, let them at least have them administered fairly, and not entrust to subordinate officers the means of as certaining the quality, material, and strength of the different sugars.—( Hear, hear. ) Mr. HUME said he had never heard more complete or convincing arguments than those used by the Hon. Member who had just sat down, for he had had many opportunities of witnessing the truth of his statement during the time he had been in India. It did appear to him that it would greatly tend to the public benefit, if the Hon. Member's views could be carried out, and effect more real good than all the meddling the trade had undergone, year after year, for a long time past: He did think that the Right Hon. Baronet ought to deal with those differential duties, for if he did not, the time might come when he would be driven to a more abrupt cessation of them. Let there be a time limited for the alteration, a time stated, so that those who had embarked their capital in the business might not be injured, without in any degree lessening the advantage which the consumer was led to expect. Last session the Right Hon. Baronet had led them to expect that the subject of differential duties would this year have been set at rest forever. Let them look at the conduct of Holland. Holland was in possession of the finest sugar colonies in the world, and n the management of those colonies she was excelled by no country in the world. They had attempted to apply these differential duties, but had found the attempt unavailing. So it was with the East Indies. Let them give the growers of sugar the opportunity of applying their capital to other objects. Let not the Right Honourable Baronet attempt again to impose the strong fetters which had been struck off a few years ago. There was no dOubt but that the difference between brown and Muscovado sugar was difficult to ascertain. But he must say that the motion of his lion. Friend had ex hausted the subject, and had suggested the best adjudication, in his opinion, between the Government and the country. The motion was then put, when . _ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that his Hon. Friend was justified in bringing forward this motion. He was sensible of the full value of the East Indian colonies. He was sensible of their value in the consumption of articles of commercial value ; and he believed, that if additional means were supplied, that power of consumption would largely in crease. Nor was it the least evidence of their value that India had offered the opportunity to men of rising to eminence by the exercise of their ability, and through the force of honourable character. Nor did he feel this value decreased, when he saw these men returning home to fulfil the functions of legislators with equal ability.—( Cheers. ) For himself personally, he might say that he did not wish to impose any duty on the sugar of the East Indies, different from that im posed on sugar from any other of the possessions of her Ma jesty. An imputation had, he believed, been thrown upon him, from the circumstance of his connexion with parties who had property in the West Indies, but he did trust that, from his position, he would be the last man in the House to act is this matter from interested motives. His Right Hon. Friend had, last session, proposed a differential duty on foreign produce, but an equal duty for the sugar of all the British posses sions. '1 here e• was, then, a distinctive duty only given to the produce of British possessions. But it was improbable, if not impossible, to carry this scheme of differential duties into effect. There was such a slight difference between the clayed sugars of Java and Manilla, that it was impossible to levy the duties rightly, and they felt themselves almost obliged to refuse admission to these sugars. If the suggestions contained in his lion. Friend's speech were to be followed, those difficulties would be doubled. This he thought was worthy of consideration. He was aware that the imposition of differential duties was always an encou ragement to the inferior article. They had endeavoured to encourage the manufacture of sugar both in the East and the West Indies, by removing the prohibition of refined sugars and admitting sugar in a state fit for use without any further process. With respect to the observation of his Hon. Friend, he felt bound to deny that colour was the only criterion for ascertaining the quantity and regulating the duty.—( Hear.) The standard taken was what was called the Java sugar, which he had been informed was a safe one, a point below which a lower duty might be established when the sugar was of an in ferior quality, and vice versa. The same difficulty of making distinctions existed before as well as now. The term " white clayed " might be termed a fair test of quality. Ile did not mean that this standard should be solely applied to white sugar, but sugar by any process rendered equal to the Javan. Colour would not be a distinguishing character. For a long period, up to the year 1825, the duty had been imposed on the principle that Muscovado and clayed sugars should pay a different duty. In 1821, in addition to the higher duty, a differential duty was established between clayed and brown sugar. If they adopted the resolution as it stood of taking the quality of white clayed sugar as the test, they would take a practical and a useful test, and one which would confer equal justice on all. He did not believe that the basis of the calculation of the Hon. Gen tleman would be found to be correct.—( Hear, hear.) Colonel SIB I'HORP rose amidst loud cries of " Order, order," and " Hear, hear," but he ultimately gave way to Mr. HAWES, who said that he was inclined to coincide with the mover.—(Hear.) It was, in his opinion, quite vain to think of establishing distinctive duties ad valorem., between the products of the East and West Indies. Those very duties were adverse to their principles, as they endeavoured to exclude the finer sugars. That, he believed, was the main object of their differential duties. He trusted the Right Hon. Baronet would re-consider this question. Sir R. PEEL said they all had but one common object in view. The Government did not wish to subject the East Indies to any new disadvantage. They did not wish to benefit the West Indies Et the expense of the East Indies ; for the East Indies were as much entitled to consideration as the West. The question the Go vernment had to consider was, whether they would adopt a uniform duty of 15s. or 165., or a discriminating duty. They were of opinion that words were introduced which would de scribe what Oars of sugar should be admitted at the 14s. duty, and what at the 16s. But if there was to be no discrimiminat ing ditty with regard to their own colonies, he would object to a discriminating duty with regard to foreign sugar.—( clear, hear .. .) He should say that the best course to pursue would be to allow the resolution to pass, to ascertain if they could find words which would make the quality of the sugar known to the trade themselves ; and for this purpose they were in communication with the Custom-house officers. Then, if they could not agree to the views of his Hon. Friend, his Hon. Friend motion, when the sense of the c H o o u i l i d se i in might Com b m e it t t a e fe r n en u e p w his on it Mr. F. BARING said that he came to the House to express, as we understood, an opinion favourable to the scale of duties, but after what had passed he would not enter into the subject. He did not suppose it was the intention of the Right Hon. Baronet, in asking to have the resolution passed, to prejudice those who had other motions to make. Sir R. PEEL replied in the negative. Mr. GLADSTONE thought that the words to be intro duced would have very little effect in altering the sense of the resolution. But he rose for the purpose of correcting two mistakes. His Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Hogg) had said that he said that the East Indian interest were not entitled to any favour. Noe. he said no such thing. What he said was, that the principle on which the West Indian interest justified the 108. duty was wholly inapplicable to the case of the East India interest. That was all he said. The other point to which he referred was that it had been stated in the newspapers, that he had said that the editor of the Economist newspaper had made certain statements from an intention to deceive, or from misconception. He supposed that what he had said was not heard distinctly, but as he was in intention of of thro w i ng t h e s li g h test moral givenimpu he :thpoluin to an thought it right indid ivtuoal sayinw reflection th on that ge n tl eman. A s to t h e quest i on o f a htfaoi s at° s rt i nie m fi l c eol a dli'r t ca i classification aoa h tde e i admitted that the Hon. Member for Lambeth had raised it fairly ; he admitted that there would be a difficulty in working-out such a system, but he did not think that the Honourable Member for Lambeth was aware of the extent of the difficulty. The only way of getting out of that difficulty was to say that raw sugar and double refined should pay the same duty. Ile had never said one word against classi fication. _ . Mr. HOGG expressed himself satisfied with the course proposed to be adopted by the Government, and withdrew his amendment. The House then went pro forma into a Committee of Ways and Means, the resolution was agreed to, and the report was ordered to be received on Monday. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and th• House, at One o'clock, adjourned to Monday. RAILWAY DEPARTMENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE. REPORT OF TILE RAILWAY DEPARTMENT OF THE 110ARD OF TRADE ON THE MANCHESTER AND LEEDS DISTRICT. Railway Department, Board of Trade, Whitehall. The Board constituted by Minute of the Lords of the Committee of Privy Council for Trade, for the transaction of railway business, having had under consideration the different schemes deposited with the Railway Department for extending railway communica. tion in the Manchester and Leeds district, have determined on submitting the following report thereon for the consideration of Parliament. In this case, the question of preference between schemes proposed for completing the railway communication, of a district in con nexion with an existing trunk line, and schemes similar in their general object, proposed by independent companies, is so deeply in volved, that we think it desirable to commence our report by quoting the following passage from our previous report on the south.eastern district, in which the principles by which we have been guided in such cases are fully stated : " The list of schemes In this district shows that on the one hand a very extensive and comprehensive system for the accommo. dation of the whole Kentish and South-Eastern district, is pro. posed by the south-eastern Company, in connexion with their existing lines; while, on the other hand, the same or nearly the same objects are proposed to be mtained by a number of new and independent schemes. " This r o e f n t d h e e r s p i r t i n n c e i e p e l es s s a w r y h i t c h h a t h a w y e e s h guidedo l b u e s g , ii i s n b t h y s a n a n e d x m l cit statementlar cases, in forming an opinion whether a preference ought er ought not to be given, and if given, under what conditions and to what extent, to lines for completing the accommodation of part l ector districts, which lines are in connexion with existing railways in those districts. "In this, as in every other case, we heee endeavoured to keep steadily in view the attainment of the greatest amount of public advantage. We have not recognised the existence of anything like a vested right in existing Companies to be protected from the same description of competition which they have themselves in flicted on canals and other existing modes of communication. Be yond, perhaps, a bare preference, in cases of absolt to equality, due to the interests of shareholders, who themselves constitute a portion of the public, we have not considered that an existing railway Company could claim any preference over other parties proposing to effect the same objects, beyond that which might re. suit from an identification of interest with the public. " Considering the subject in this point of view, it appears to us that, as a general rule, the most important point for the interest. of the public, is to secure the best permanent lines of railway communication fee the country at large and for the wants of the district. To sanction an inferior or unnecessarily circuitous line proposed by an existing Company, or to reject one of decided public and local advantage, proposed by a new Company, for the sake of any terms that could be offered by an existing Company, would, in our opinion, be, except under peculiar circumstances, unfair to wards the local interests thus sacrificed, and unwise as regards the general and permanent interests of the public. "We have, therefore, as a general rule, considered it as an essential preliminary requisite, before entering upon the question of giving protection to existing Companies by al_ lowing them to complete the railway communications of particular districts, that the lines proposed by them shall be, in all substantial respects, sound in themselves, and not inferior to those proposed by any other parties. " Assuming this to be the case, the question is at once raised whether the public are likely to derive most benefit from competi tion, or from arrangements with the existing Company. " With regard to the general principles which regulate compcti. tion in the case of railways, we have little to add to the reports of the Select Committee on Railways of last session, by whom the subject was fullyinvestigated. The Committee state, in their Fifth Report : " When the lines are very short, the probability is, that unless charges be moderate, road traffic will revive, and in such cases the public have a great degree of security. Again, as respects the car. riage of goods, it is found in practice that by other channels of con. veyance, such as canals, an effective control may, under certain circumstances, be placed upon railway charges. But in considering the case of passenger charges, and in all classes of lines, except those which are so short as to be effectually checked by the ordi. nary road, the Committee think that little can be permanently ex pected from the mere multiplication of railways in the way of secu. rity for moderation of charge. There may be, indeed, indirect and accidental competition between railways, which may cause cheap ness, and there may even be direct and brisk competition, with great reductions of fare, for short periods. But in such cases of competition, somewhat modified, as have hitherto occurred, the themselves, the Committee cannot in all cases repose implicit faith in it.' " With regard to the check of competition by railways among result has generally been Increase of charge by mutual arrange ment or positive amalgamation of the competing Companies. The experience of the past is, however, limited, and might not, if taken alone, warrant any conclusive opinion ; but in looking to the nature of the question itself, the Committee feel this difficulty, that they cannot, in case of railways, anticipate any such facilities in the introduction of new competitors as to check the proceedings of the Companies actually in possession of the traffic ; that in fact there is no district in which the traffic will support any consider able number of railways; that there is no case in which they can imagine a likelihood of more than two, or at the very utmost, three lines of railway communication, which could be so situated as to compete with one another, and they cannot conceive that two bodies, or even three, acting by compact executive boards, and secure against the entrance of any other party into the field, will fail to combine together. It is, therefore, their apprehension, that in such cases, either the different railways will continue to be worked, and then that extreme measures will be taken in con. cent for the purpose of paying very moderate dividends, and it may be found that several capitals have been ex pended for performing the business which could have been equally well, or perhaps even better, performed by one; or a closer combination will take place among the Companies— they will choose the line upon which they can roost profitably carry the traffic, and will leave the rival line or lines unoc cupied.' "The principle here stated,that competition loses more or less of its value as a security for the public, when from the nature of the case it is limited to two or three parties, who are constantly urged by mutual interest to combine, has received abundant cor roboration from the experience of what has already taken place in the history of railways. " The following instances may be mentioned where railway Companies, in a situation to compete, have, after a short time, either amalgamated or combined together, so as to put an end to competition : " The Leeds and Selby with the York and North Midland ; in this case the former line being virtually for several years shut up. " The Birmingham and Derby with the Midland Counties. "The Chester and Crewe with the Grand Junction. "The Manchester and Birmingham with the Grand Junction, " The Bolton and Preston with the North Union. "The Northern and Eastern with the Eastern Counties. " On the other hand, we are not aware of a slight instance whirls can be pointed out, in which the public are now deriving any benefit from direct competition between two railways. " In addition to the instances of combination between directly competing Companies, recent experience has furnished numerous instances of the tendency of smaller lines, originally sanctioned as independent undertakings, to resign their independence into the hands of powerful neighbours. We may mention, among other instances of this tendancy, the amalgamation or lease of the Shef field and Manchester to the Midland and Manchester and Bir mingham. " Of the Bristol and Exeter, and Cheltenham and Great Western, with the Great Western. " Of the Mull and Selby, and Manchester and Bolton, with the Manchester and Leeds. " Of the North Union with the Liverpool and Manchester and Grand Junction. " Of the Greenwich with the South-Eastern. " Of the Sheffield and Rotheram with the Midland. " Of the Chester and Birkenhead with the Chester and Holy head. " Of the Bristol and Gloucester with the Birmingham and Gloucester. Beside others that might be quoted. " The same principle has received further elucidation from the inquiries of Parliamentary Committees on former occasions, as well as from the great body of evidence co llected b y the Commis. sioners of Inquiry into the Sanatory Condition of Large Towns, in regard to the operation of the principle of competition as coin. pared to that of well regulated monopoly in the analogous cases of water and gas companies. Indeed it is too evident, as a general proposition, to be disputed ; although great caution may be re quired in its application, and in discriminating those cases where the competition is of a pure and simple nature, such as must even. tually lead to a compromise, from those where a certain degree of indirect and incidental competition may exist, from which the public may expect to derive lasting benefit, either in the shape of reduction of charge or of extension of accommodation. " When an existing railway Company proposes schemes which, although only partially sufficient for the fall accommodation of the district, may yet be sufficient to prevent other parties from enter ing the field with further or improved projects in that district, the arguments against the creation of a monopoly acquire additional strength. The simpler case is, when, as in the present instance, the existing Company comes forward with a complete and com prehensive scheme, and the question is reduced to this : whether the existing Company is able and willing to offer guarantees for the public advantage superior to any that can be afforded by a new Company. " Of the ability of the old Company to offer such guarantees there can, generally speaking, be little doubt. " Istly. An established Company, which has a valuable pro. perty and large available income independent of the new scheme, can, of course, offer a guarantee for the fulfilment of all that it it undertakes to accomplish greatly superior to that of any new Company, however respectable. " This consideration derives great weight from the experience which has been already afforded of the failure of many new Corn. panics to accomplish the objects for which they were incorporated. We need only refer to the instances of the Eastern Counties Company, which was incorporated as a line from London to Nor wich, and has never yet been carried beyond Colchester; of the Northern and Eastern, which for many years stopped short of Cambridge ; and of the Great North of England, which abandoned the portion of its line between Darlington and Newcastle. " 2dly. The traffic of a system of lines connected with one another can always be worked more economically and con veniently under one uniform management than by independent Companies. The Company which works the main trunk line, and possesses the principal terminal stations, can run more frequent trains, and make better arrangements for forwarding the traffic of the cross lines, than it could afford to do if two or three separate establishments had to be maintained, and the harmony of arrange. ments depended on two or three independent authorities. Under each circumstances a conflict of feeling and interest has almost in variably grower up, from which the public has suffered the most serious inconvenience. When the traffic is large, this conflict has frequently led not only to increased inconvenience, but to increased danger; and where the terminus or a portion of the rails of one Company have been common to the other, these results have been greatly aggravated. "idly. An established Company can always, if so disposed, offer guarantees and advantages for a greater extent of railway than the new Company, viz., for the existing as well as the projected lines. When the existing Company is already in possession of the princi pal trunk of the district, the advantage of securing such guarantees for the whole system, rather than for only a small portion of it, is rendered more apparent. " The Select Committee of last session, for reasons which are fully stated in their report, attach great importance to the obtain. ing of guarantees from existing companies, by voluntary arrange ments similar to those which they recommended, and which Parlia. ment subsequently adopted in the case of new railways; and ex press a strong hope, that among the existing companies there may be those which will be disposed to accede to arrangements, resembling, in their general principle and effect, those which are now proposed for new railways.' " ethly. Whatever guarantees may be thus offered by existing Companies, possess the double advantage, as compared with simi lar offers from new Companies, of coming into immediate opera tion, and of being more certainly rendered effectual. An offer from a new Company to hind itse:f to charge fares considerably lower than those usual upon other lines, might readily be made, in the hope of thereby securing their Bill: but the fulfilment . of it would depend almost entirely upon the eventual success of the line, and its ability to perferm its engagements. No Act of Parliament could compel an insolvent concern to carry at as low rates, and afford as ample accommodation, as a prosperous under taking might be able to do. A moderate offer from an established Company, who can be relied on to fulfil their engagements, is therefore preferable to ono apparently more advantageous from a new Company. " For these, among other reasons, we conclude that the policy indicated by the Committee of last session, of giving a preference to the schemes of existing railway Companies for supplying their x be required to should protect the public again et the possible abuses of Inv own districts, when such schemes arc as g ood or better than that I :t se s as exist may which reasonably h induce us to look for advantage from competition, and where the o o l f d airy Company otheri o r u i e n s t il y where o offers s specialuc such g r u e a a r s a ci l guarantees them an intimation of the danger that was hanging over them; but he understood the Noble Lord to say, that the explanation upon that particular point had been entirely satisfactory. Ile could not but regret that the House had commenced this dis cussion with an imputation thrown cut upon an Hon. Gentle man on the opposite beneh.s ; but he was glad the explanation hail proved sati factory, for nothicg would have been more pain ful to him than that such an imputation should have remained unsettled. lie would not discuss with the Hon. and Learred Gentleman the question which he had again agitated, as to whether the issuing of the warrants could be satisfactorily maintained in a court of law. Supposing the Hon. Gentleman's position to be maintained in a molt of law—supposn:g that these warrants were not sanctioned by the common law of the country, )et still the responsibility would fall upon the House, and not upon the Executive Government. The power was cer tainly not immediately ranctiened by a statute; but then they had introduced words into the statute which led to the impres sion that the Government had the power to exercise this autho rity. All past Governments had exercised the power of open ing letters, and, therefore, if they were found to be inj the wrong, the blame would not at taeh to the Minister, but to Parliament. It was the duty of the House to clear up all doubt on the matter by a declaratory statement. that such power existed. But lie would not enter further into the question, but merely to re mark that any alteration in the custom ought to be reserved for a separate discussion. The power ought to be maintained for reasons stated by the Noble Lord opposite, but he thought it would be attended with danger to make the recommended public proclamtvion. He should, however, be always prepared to remedy any abuse of the power.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the subject immediately under consideration, lie did not say whether or not there should be now a public inquiry at the bar of the House, with respect to the alleged opening of the letters of the lion. Member. Some Hon. Member who had spoken recently had imputed to them that they had made a charge against the lion. Gentleman—that they were not the defendants, but the lion. Member was being charged by us with improper transactions. Now not ore word of that charge had they ever said. It wee Ate Honour ' able Member himself, who, it appeared, relying upon informa tion which he received from the Post-office, publicly declared that his letters had been opened, or that he strongly suspected thee had. Now, if the Hon. Gentleman had not made that declaration, no one would have known that the Hon. Gesitle man had any ground for suspicion. So that, in fact, the Hon. Member had made the charge himself. The question which then came was, whether, in consequence of this suspicion entertained by the Honourable Gentleman, they should summon the officers of the Post-office to the bar of the House, and institute a public inquiry. Now, it had been admitted in the course of that debate, that the Hon. Gentleman, as a Member of Parliament, stood in no different position from any other subject of her Majesty. Thus, every individual out of the House poasessed the same rights the Hon. Member did. If, therefore, his Right Hon. Friend were to answer the question of a Member of Parliament, or acceded to the motion, they would have a petition presented by another individual, not being a Member of that House, alleging that his letters had been opened, and would he not have the same right to demand an answer as well as the Hon. Member for Finsbury ? Now, if they acceded to this amendment, they would compel the Government to answer this question, or the party would turn round upon them, and say, he was nut protected by the law.—(Hear, hear.) They would have no end to these questions, and they would have to summons Colonel Maberley to the bar of that House time after time. He entirely agreed with those Hon. Members who said this was not a personal matter. lie claimed a full participation in the responsibility of his Right lion. Friend. He defended the exercise of this power, and he considered that every Member of the Government was liable to share in the responsibility which attached to it. Now, let him ask, if his Hon. Friend were to answer the question, would it forward the necessity for ir•.gniry ? No, certainly not. Then, would the House of Commons be acting justly with the Government in insisting upon a reply from his Right Hon. Friend ? Last year they thought. it desirable that a full and complete inquiry should be made into these practices to allay the public excitement which prevailed on the subject. In order that every explana tion should be given, it was thought that the inquiry ought to be made before a Secret Committee, very few dissented to the proposition, and the general opinion of the House appeared to be in favour of the Committee, as compared with any other tribunal. There was no division whatever upon the subject, and by the vote of the House it was determined that a Secret Committee should be appointed. Upon that _Committee there were nine Gentlemen, five of whom had recorded their votes against the Government, upon a leading political , question. The Committee sat, and immediately afterwards it was stated to them that in the autumn of 184'2, during the disturbances in South Wales, two clerks of the Post-office were sent down to the disturbed districts with warren% and directions to open and inspect the letters of certain persons.—( Hear, hear.) By the frankness and unreservedness of their explanations be fore the Committee and the public of the facts of the dates of the warrants, other parties would be led to seek similar re dress. 'Would they call the officers of the Post-office on the presentation of a petition, that petition prompted by the inquiry of that Committee ? Would they call on the Secre tary of State to say whether he had issued his warrant or not, and if he declined answering that, would they have an inquiry at the bar? Mr. DUNCOMBE—It is privilege. Sir 11. PEEL continued—The Hon. Gentleman fell back on privilege. The Hon. Gentleman was pressed by the argu ment. He felt that he (Sir R. Peel) had proved so com pletely that once open an inquiry in this case, and they could not limit it. The Hon. Gentleman now said it was a case of privilege. Mr. DUNCOMBE—I always said so. Sir R. PEEL continued—Others had contended that there was no distinction in that respect between the Hon. Gentle man and the meanest subject of the realm. Other persons would say, You appointed a Committee on general allega tions not proved, and you have appointed an examination at your bar because a Member states that he can prove that his letters have been opened. I have no remedy by law. I ask you to give me the same advantage you have given one of your own Members. My character was risked as his was. I have no remedy in a court of law. Let me have the satisfaction you have given to him : call the officers to the bar, and ask them to show the legality of the warrants for opening my letters." It would be vain to draw the distinction of a breach of pri vilege, insofar as that question was now concerned. The Hon. Gentleman did not bring it forward now as a question of pri vilege. In that case, then, he (Sir B. Peel) said that it was acting unjustly towards the Government. The Government had been told that the inquiry would be a secret one. They were told that the tribunal would be a fair and impartial one. They were called before that tribunal, and they gave their evidence, and that tribunal acquitted them of all improper motives, and yet it was now said, that that ac quittal was not complete, and an inquiry at the bar was called for. If there was to be that public inquiry they could not limit it to this particular case. They were surely bound to inquire into the acts of others. They must go into an exami nation of the acts of their predecessors, or the examination would not be complete. The inquiry must extend to all the warrants which had been issued since 1832. If that kind of inquiry were demanded, could they consistently refuse it? If Colonel Maberly were brought to the bar and a l'slember were to extend the inquiry beyond the limits of the Hon. Gentle man's motion, would they call on the Speaker to stop the exa mination on the ground that Colonel Maberly had been called for a specific purpose ? It would be impossible. It would be inconsistent with common justice. They must extend the inquiry to the case of every petitioner who could make out as bad a prima facie case as that of the Hon. Member for Finsbury—and he really could not conceive where the man was who could not—they must extend that inquiry to every petitioner who told them that he was labouring under an un just imputation, and therefore wished to rescue his character from an unjust suspicion. But they must go further. They should extend the public inquiry to the warrants which had been in existence since 1822. He did not believe that any former Government would have reason to deprecate that. He firmly believed that this power, when exercised by the Noble Lord, was exercised for honest and public purposes. He was as firmly convinced of that as that he was then addressing the lieuse.—( Cheers.) He did not suppose that the Noble Lord would deprecate inquiry from personal motives.—(" Hear, hear," from Lord John Russell.) Bet did they think it de- ' sirable to institute such an inquiry? His firm conviction was, that they would never get a more complete and perfect in quiry than that of the Secret Committee. He wished to convince the House that they could not limit this inquiry to individual cases. On this, and the other grounds which he had stated, lie must give his opposition to the motion of the Honourable Gentle man. Ile would have closed here, bad it not been for the speech of the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury. He hoped the lion. Member, having discharged the bile which had been ac cumulating during the past week, felt himself more at ease than he was.—( Laughter. ) He told the lion. Gentleman at. once that he would not reciprocate personalities.—( Cheers. ) If he felt an inclination to ilts so, the Hon. Gentleman cer tainly would have a great advantage over Cheers and laughter.) He thought he had found sufficient allusions of a personal nature. Ile had heard them made frem benches im. mediately behind him, and he never felt it necessary to answer them. He would not have answered them if it had net been that the Hon. Gentleman seconded a motion of which he en.- tirely disapproved, which he said he did in a friendly spirit. In the course of his speech, the Hon. Gentleman charged him (Sir R. Peel) with having appointed to office a gentleman who had been concerned in a plot. lie would make no reference to that, because the Honourable Gentleman had made a very honourable apology. He did not think he was at liberty to refer to it, because the Honourable Gentleman having been betrayed into an error, had frankly avowed it. But it wee in consequence of the declaration made by the Hon. Gentleman in seconding the motion that he did in a friendly spirit - . At that time there was a feeling running through the House, which in this country there was no word to express, but which, in the French Chambers, was termed the mrxemcnt vit'ace. lie could assure the Hon. Gentleman that he had not the slightest wish to fetter his independence, or the independence of any Member of that House. He thought that every man should be the guardian of his own indepen dence, and if he disapproved of any act of the Government, or disapproved of the general policy of the Government, he might censure the act and condemn the Government. He had no power to exercise by which he could prevent the Hon. Gentleman from adopting an independent course of action. He (Sir Robert Peel) courted no man's favour. He thought he understood the relation in which a Minister ought to stand towards those who gave him general support. He thought it well to possess their confidence, and he thought he would not incur the risk of losing that confidence by taking the course which he believed was for the public interest. ' That course he had taken, and that course he would continue to take. If the lion. Gentleman thought any acts of his (Sir R. Peel) were at variance with the policy which he supported in 1834 in Government and since, let those acts be examined, and let the Hon. Gentleman vote against them and condemn there. If, continued the Right Hon. Baronet, in respect to the Church, you think that any course pursued by the Govern ment endangered that institution, it would be suffi cient to oppose that particular act. If you think that we have, at variance with our principles, greatly extended popular privileges, or invested fresh blood of democracy into the working of the Constitution, tell us so and oppose it. If you deny our commercial and financial policy, oppose the par ticular act ; and if you should think that we are no longer worthy of your credit or confidence, mark your want of confi dence by a public declaration of opinion, and by a distinct op position. I should deeply regret the loss of that confidence to which the Hon. Gentleman refers, but I firmly say that, as the Minister of the Crown, I will attempt to do good as far as I can ; and if, in attempting to do that, I should forfeit the confidence which I have so much prided, I shall adopt that course, rather than retain that confidence at the expense of public opinion.—(Cheers.) As I said before, if our general policy be objectionable—if it is not sound—ifwe are interfering with the rights of property—if we are infringing the prerogatives of the Crown—if we are undermining our civil or sacred institutions—prove that we have done so, and I should acknowledge that your confidence has been forfeited. Sir, the Hon. Gentleman has referred to the relations in which I stand to Mr. Canning, and thinks, on that account, he is fairly entitled to withhold his confidence and respect. Sir, it ought not to be a quotation from Mr. Canning that should open the Hon. Gentleman's eyes to my misfortune. The Hon. Gentleman must have been aware in Itl4l, and subsequently, of those relations towards Mr. Canning. and of the course which I have pursued with regard to that most eminent man ; and the knowledge of that course, not an accidental quotation from a poem, ought to have disentitled me to the Hon. Gen tleman's confidence and respect at a much earlier period than now. But, Sir, as I said before, it is not my intention to re ciprocate personalities with the Honourable Gentleman. Ido not wish, in the ;lightest degree, to fetter hi SUGAR DUTIES. Mr. HOGG then rose to bring forward the resolution of which he had given notice. lie feared that after the very exciting debate which had just concluded, he would not be able to obtain that attention to the subject upon which he was about to move, notwithstanding its impor tance. However, before calling the attention of the House to the motion, he thought it right on his own part, and on the part of every one connected with the East Indies, to thank the Government for the great boon conferred by them on that country, as well as on the West Indies, in consequence of the great reduction made in the duties on sugar. But thongh he highly approved of that part of the measure, he entertained a strong objection to the differential duty proposed by the Go vernment. Neither he per those on whose behalf he appeared had any objections to make to the abstract justice of a differen tial duty. It was perfectly fair and just that sugar of a finer quality and higher value should be subject to a higher duty than sugar which was inferior in value and quality. His objection, therefore, was, not to the principle, but to the application of a discriminating duty. Per haps the House was not aware that up to 1836 there had al ways been a discriminating duty of 10s. on East Indian sugar in excess over the duty imposed on West Indian sugar ; and so long as the East Indian interest had an exclusive right of trading between the East Indies and this country, perhaps there was some ground for that excess of duty upon East Indian sugar. But, after the year 1833, when the East India trade was thrown open, there was no longer any excuse for con tinuing that distinction. In 1834, the Right Hon Gentlemau oppo-ite said there was, upon principle, no pretence for con tinuing the distinction ; and the Right Hon. Gentleman on his side of the House declared, in language no less strong, that there was no reasonable ground for its continuance. But though there was no ground on abstract princip'e for the dis tinction, both the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite and the Right Hun. Gentleman near him referred to the situation of the West Indies at that period as a justification. And, considering the peculiar circumstances of the West Indies at that time, he admitted that the application of the rule might be just and reasonable. But in 1836, Lord Monteagle, then Mr. Spring Rice, stated, as Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the time had then arrived when justice to the East Indies required that the duty should be equalised, and when that equalisation could take place without injustice to the West Indies. Therefore, since 1836, the sugar produce of the East and West Indies eras subjected to the same duty, and all he now asked was, that that equalisation should be continued. Before he had given his notice, and after it, he had stated to the Right Hon. Gentlemen the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that if he found the discriminating duty were impracticable, he should abandon them, but if he found them practicable, he should apply the scale of those duties equally to both the East and W es t Indies. He contended that the duties, as they were now to be imposed, were not equal both to the East and the West Indies. In the East Indies the manufacture of sugar was the same as it had been for centuries past. The sugar there was not claved, while it was in the West Indies. The sugar there was filtered through grass, which made it whiter and clearer, and the result of the proposed scheme would be, that they would have sugar, the produce of the East Indies, coming in on the higher duty of 16e, while they would have the Musco• vado, containing snore saccha-ine matter, coming in at a lower duty. Now, he would put it to the House if that was fair. It was said that the East India sugar was poor; true, it was, but it bore in the market a price above its value.—(Hear, hear.) Why was it so? Because the East India sugar was used by grocers to mix with smaller quantities of Muscovado sugar, and thereby reduce its value. The result of the duty would be, that the tax of 2s. 4d. would fall upon the sugar used by the middling classes. It might be said that the East Indies might avoid this by altering their mode of manufacture, but it was well known that the East Indians were peculiar in their ways, and it would not be easy to persuade them to adopt a dif ferent course. The result of the additional duty would be that orders would go out from this country to the East Indies, tell ing the people there not to send white sugar, but black, dirty, Parliament sugar—(A laugh)—and, in the end, they would completely check all improvement with respect to sugar. The improvement in sugar was increasing every day—( Hear, hear) —but the Chancellor of the Exchequer was doing all he could to check it. He contended that every man ought to have the right of making white sugar for the 'public. The words of the enactment proposed absolutely declared the colour sugar should be, in order to pay a high or a low duty; they had, in the Act which it was proposed now to pass, enacted that East India sugar, however strong, provided the colour was avoided, ,might come in at the lower duty. They ought to declare that the documentary duty should be placed on sugar, not on account of its colour, but its strength. He thought it was for the interest of the public and the consumer that the discriminating duty should be taken off. This was no matter of speculation, and in order to show that, he would refer to some documents on the subject. The Hon. Member then referred to several returns, fur the purpose of showing that discriminating duties were not good. He might be told, perhaps, that this was not the first timet hat a discriminating duty had been proposed ; he might be reminded that the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Taunton, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Excheqner, under the late Government, had introduced a measure founded on that principle. But that precedent was wholly inapplicable to the present case,. because it was then proposed to admit the higher class of Havannah sugars. On that occasion his Right Hon. Friend the Member for Newark, who was thoroughly ac quainted both vsitia the East and the West, and who oscillated between the two, expressed a very strong opinion. He had the authority of the Right Hon. Gentleman for stating that a discriminating duty was impracticable.—( Hear. ) He then read the extract to the effect he had just stated. He had reason to think that the Right Hon. Gentleman did not believe that to be correct. If it were not, his authority for the statement must be his excuse for introducing it to the Howe. But every one must recollect the strong opinion expressed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer last session ; he adverted to the difficulties of collecting a discretionary duty, and the incon venience of depending on Custom-house officers. That was the opinion of the Right Hon. Baronet last year, that was his (Mr. Hogg's) opinion then, and that was his opinion now. He had told the House that in 1821 a discriminating duty was imposed on East Indian sugar, but so great was the confusion it caused, and so vexatious was it to the trade, and so constant a source of loss was it to the revenue, that in 1823, only two years after it was imposed, this discriminating duty was removed. In the year 1825 all discriminating duties on British sugars were removed, and from that time to the present there had been nu discriminating duties whatever. In 1825, all the Acts of Parliament relating to the Customs were submitted to Mr. Deacon Hume, and that great authority advised that all discriminating duties should be abolished. The present proposition was more objectionable than the proposition of the Hon. Member for Bristol last year. He proposed a dis criminating duty of 4s. 3d., but it was to be limited to foreign sugars ; he did not say that it, was to be applied to East Indian sugar. He contended they mast have one thing or another ; they must have a discriminating duty on all sugars, both foreign and home grown, ur they mast have none at all. Believing that they could not have one that would operate fairly, he wished to have none at all, and that was the object of his motion. The Hon. Member for Bristol understood the subject thoroughly, and was very fair in what he said. lie said there might be a discriminating duty, but that it ought to be levied according to the quantity of saccharine matter con tained in the ;sugar ; that would be fair, and he had not a word to say against it. If they had any such instrument as a saccharometer, to measure the strength of the sugar— if they had any such means of ascertaining its quality, he had not a word to say against the intro duction of the duty, but let them make it fair in its applica tion. In that debate his Hon. Friend took no narrow view to the East Indian interest. He 'peke with regret, that the pro• duce of the East Indies had fallen short of late years ; he was quite right. Both the East and West Indies were in the same boat, and they together produced a good supply of sugar for the public. The great experiment they had tried with respect to slavery, and the object of the Right Hon. Baronet would be realised. But if they checked the production of sugar in the East Indies by a discriminating duty, and rendered the quantity not sufficient for the consumption of the country, no power on earth could keep out slave sugar.—( Hear, hear.) The object of both the East and West Indies was to preduce as ' much good and cheap sugar as they could for the public ; that was the only object of keeping up the protective duty. In the West Indies there was, he believed, a limit to the production of sugar ; but he believed he did not speak the language of exaggeration, when he said that in the East Indies the ca pabilities of producing sugar was almost unlimited. In the evidence of Mr. Trevellian, it was stated, that north from Hindostan to the mouth of the Ganges. through all the tract that was called the Valley of the Ganges, there war the power of producing sugar enough for the consumption of a whole world. He did entreat the House not to introduce a measure that would tend to check this production. It had been said that the East Indies had no claim—at least a very small claim—to protection ; and the assertion had, to his great astonishment, been responded to by the Hon. Member ler Newark, late the President of the Board of Trade. He implored the House to look at their East Indian empire, to consider its extent, equal to nearly the whole of Europe, with four times the population of the United King dam ; an empire founded, maintained, and extended, without subjecting the mother country to a charge of a farthing ; an empire that defrayed the expenses of all the establishments, civil and military, out of its own resources.—(" And of its religions, too I" from Mr. Home.) A country that remitted to Europe what he might term an annual tribute of three millions sterling. Why did he call it a tribute? Because they had no commercial return for it. India sent home, for home ex penditure, three millions of tribute, which was now paid, and would continue to be paid; and the wander of all Eisglishmen was, how such a tribute could continue to be paid, India receiving no return.—( Hear, hear.) India, again, poured into this country an annual stream of wealth in the fortunes of the public servants, who, having spent their lives in the East, returned to end their days at home, and this to an amount lie had heard estimated at 400,0001. or 500,0001. annually. India took six millions of English manufactures, which included seven million pounds of cotton twist, and thre and a half millions of cotton pieces. He would beg the manno factoring interest to consider this; and yet thirty years and India itself was a great manufacturing country, and exporten to England nearly three millions in cotton goods and muslid pieces. What was the case now ? English manufactures had expelled these goods, and supplanted them even in India. Di he complain of this? No, so far it was the ordie nary course of trade and the introduction of ma chinery that hail effected it. But pending this transition English manufactures were imported into India at 3 1 ,4 per cent. duty, while not a single article from India was admitted here under a duty of 10 per cent. The once flourishing dis trict of Deccan was now reduced to a state of misery and des titution—its manufactures were ruined, and the people were driven to the culture of their rich and fertile soil ; and while India was in this state of transition, he was told that it was not entitled to protection. He had sow by him a letter whi c h h e h a d rece i ve d f rom a pri vate friend of his, but he would not trouble the House by read ing it, but it contained very valuable statements, which went at great length into financial details. It said that though hitherto India was remarkable for its agricultural property as regarded sugar, yet he had every reason to believe that there was glee prospect of extended sugar cultivation, but that India was increasing her extent of cultivation of sugar in order to pay fur English manufactures.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member opposite had dwelt much on the fluctuation of prices of sugar ; but he (Mr. Hogg) could show by 4 few figures in COURT CIRCULAR. The Queen and Prince Albert took equestrian exercise yesterday morning, in the riding-school, Buckingham Palace. his Royal Highness Prince Albert presided, yesterday afternoon, at a meeting of the Commission for Promoting and Encouraging the Fine Arts in the re-building the Palace of Westminster. His Royal Highness arrived at Gwydyr House at half-past two o'clock, attended by Colonel Wylde, Equerry in Waiting. The Commissioners present were the Earl of Lincoln, Viscount Palmerston, Lord Mahon, Lord Ashburton, Lord Colborne, Sir Robert H. Inglis, Mr. Benjamin Hawes, M.P., Mr. Henry Ilallam, Mr. Samuel Rogers, M.P., and Mr. Thomas Wyse, M.P. The meeting broke up at half past four o'clock. Their Royal Ilighneases the Prince of Wales, the Princess Royal, and the Princess Alice, were taken an airing in the Hoye l Gardens yesterday. Mr. Lee had the honour of submitting, through Colonel Wylde, to Prince Albert, his patent improved wheel and axletree for carriages. His Royal Highness was pleased to express his approbation. Her Majesty and Prince Albert, attended by the Countess of Dunmore, the Earl of Morton, Colonel Buckley, and Colonel Wylde, honoured the Haymarket Theatre with their presence yesterday evening. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, attended by Lady Fanny Howard, honoured the performance at the St. James's Theatre with her presence last evening. His Royal Highness Prince Albert, attended by Colonel Wylde, visited the Duke of Cambridge yesterday, at Cam bridge House. Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent visited the Duchess of Cambridge and the Hereditary Grand Duchess of Mecklenburgh Strclitz yesterday , . His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge visited the Duchess of Gloucester yesterday, at Gloucester House. The Grand Duchess (Stephanie) of Baden.—Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent, attended by Lady Fanny. Howard, Lady in Waiting, visited her Royal highness yes terday, at the Duke of Hamilton's residence in Portman square. Several of the Foreign Ministers paid their respects to the Grand Duchess yesterday. The Governor of the Bank of England, and the Deputy- Governor had an audience with Sir Robert Peel yesterday. Mr. Dean, Chairman of the Customs, 11/0 an interview with the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday, at his official residence, in Downing-street. The Belgian Minister and the Portuguese Minister trans acted business yesterday at the Foreign.. o ffi ce. Dispatches from the Governors of Ceylon and the Mau ritius were received yesterday at the Colonial-office. Dis patches were also received from the Lord High Commis sioners of the lonian Islands and the Governor of Malta. Mr. Hogg, M.P., had an interview yesterday with the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Dispatches were sent orr yesterday evening, from the Co lonial-office, for the Governor of New South Wales, and also for the Governor of Van Diemen's Land. ---- THE FIRST SPANISII RAILWAY. _The surveys of the railway from Barcelona to Mataro have just been completed, and the line turns out to be remarkably favourable, being nearly flat; it is twenty miles long, and Is estimated to cost 200,000/. This will be the first Spanish line, and its success will probably decide whether Spain sh al enjoy the blessings of railway communication and of the civilization to which it inevitably leads. The concession of the line was made some time ago to Don Jose Marla Roca, and placed hi the hinds of a•s English engineer, Mr. Locke. One half of the shares are to be as signed to the capitalists of Spain, and nearly the whole of these have alreody been taken up in Barcelona alone; the other half Of tin covit4l 1@ tv Na ral§ed noixily, or such conditions as at once place the public in a better psition than they could hope to obtain from competition, is that from which the greatest amount of permanent public advantage is likely to be derived. " We by no means intend these principles to be considered as rules of universal application, toeing satisfied that no abstract or in variable rule can be s.dely laid down by which to decide cases of such complexity, and varying so greatly in detail ; but we have thought it desirable to state thus generally the views which have guided us in cases like this of the south-eastern district, and urn which the soundness of the conclusions at which we have arrived must mainly depend." We now proceed to apply these principles to the case before us. The question upon which we have had to decide virtually resolves itself into one between the system of lines proposed by the Leeds and West Riding Junctio❑ Company —a Company formed by an alliance between the Manchester and Leeds Company and an inde pendent local party—and a system similar in its general objects, proposed by two independent Companies, the West Yorkshire and Leeds asid Dewsbury, in competition with the former. The lines proposed by the different parties are so nearly identical in their general direction, that a reference to the accompanying map, upon which they arc traced in different colours, is necessary in order to understand them fully. The general objects proposed are : let. To shorten the present extremely circuitous route from Leeds to Manchester, by way of Normanton. 2d. To connect with each other, and with existing railways, the populous and important towns of the West Riding of Yorkshire; such as Leeds, Bradford, Halifax, Huddersfield, Wakefield, Dews bury, with their adjacent districts. The immense population and resources •f this district, which may be described as one great hive of manufacturing industry, render the importance of extending to it a comprehensive system of railway communication too obvious to require comment. There are several peculiarities, however, in the district, considered with reference to such a system, to which it may be well to advert. It is a district of singular engineering difficulty, presenting an almost constant succession of irregular and abrupt elevations and valleys, through which railways can only be carried at a great expense, and by adopting gradients much less favourable than those usual upon other lines. In fact, a great part of the country would have been pronounced altogether impracticable, until the recent expe rience of the enlarged capabilities of the locomotive engine had led engineers to modify the opinions formerly entertained. The Manchester and Leeds Railway, although carried by a circuitous route along the leading valley of the district, has cost upwards of 50,0001. per mile in its construction. Owing partly to these engineering difficulties, and partly to the depressed state of the money market since 1536, this important district has re mained hitherto destitute of all railway accommodation, except hat afforded by the trunk line of the Manchester and Leeds Railway. Another peculiarity in the district is the number of important and populous towns and marufacturing villages scattered over it so irregularly that their connexion cannot possibly be effected by any one line of railway. This will be understood best by reference to the map, from which it will be seen, that any line that connects Leeds with Bradford and Halifax, and those places with Man chester, necessarily isolates Huddersfield and Dewsbury, while, on the other hand, a Manchester and Leeds line, carried through those places, would provide no accommodation for Bradford and Halifax. The traffic of the district is also such as to require a very corn. plete communication of all these towns with one another, as well as an outlet for each of them towards their great manufacturing capitals, Lecds and Manchester, and towards their great shipping ports, Liverpool and Hull. It consists in a great measure of what may be called an "omnibus traffic," circulating from town to town within the district, in the pursuits of manufacturing industry, and to attend the cloth and other markets which are held weekly on stated days in all the chief emporiums, and the traffic in goods and raw materials, owing to the subdivi.son in the processes of ma nufacture throughout the district, will be of a very similar descrip tion. The great bulk of this local traffic will be of a character to require for its proper development 6:Lb very cheap rates and very numerous trains. It is important to keep these considerations in view, as they must constitute the basis of any judgment upon the systems of railway communication proposed for the wants of the district. Having regard to these objects, and referring to the lines of the Leeds and West Riding Company, as laid down in the map, it wi❑ be seen that they afford a ♦ery complete net-work of railway com munication for the district. They propose:- 1. A line from Leeds through Pudsey, Low Moor, and Halifax, to join the Manchester and Leeds Railway, and form with it a new trunk line between Leeds and Manchester, which reduces the dis tance from 61 miles to 47 miles 7 furlongs. 2. A line from Bradford to the first line at Low Moor, and thence by the Cleckheaton Valley to a junction with the Man chester and Leeds Railway at Dewsbury. 3. A line from Leeds, by Wortley and Batley, to Dewsbury. 4. A line from the Manchester and Leeds Railway, at, Cooper's Bridge, to Huddersfield. 5. A line across from the first mentioned line, a little beyond Low Moor, to Brighouse; and a short branch out of the Dewsbury tine to Birstal and Gomersal. An inspection of the map will show how completely all the lead ing objects of railway communication of the district are attained by this system. The foilowing towns, arranged according to the populations of their respective parishes, are placed in direct railway communication with one another, and, through the Manchester and Leeds Rail. way, with Manchester, Liverpool, and Hull, viz.:— Leeds 15'2,054 Halifax Bradford lluddersfield Wakefield Dewsbury Birstal Batley Pudsey 10,002 besides other populous ♦illages and manufacturing establishments, and the important iron works of Low Moor. These places ap pear to be all placed by the above system on as favourable and di rect lines of communication wi h one another as the nature of the country will admit of, and also as good lines of communication to Manchester, London, Hull, and other places beyond the district, with the exception of Huddersfield, which is in a manner isolated, and where more direct connexion with Manchester is left to ano ther Compiny. This comprehensive system of communication for the entire West Riding district was submitted to us, by its promoters, shortly after the close of the last session of Parliament, accompanied by an assurance, on their part, of their desire to render it in every re spect as complete as possible. A line from Leeds to Dewsbury, promoted by an independent party, was shortly afterwards brought before us. Subsequently another independent Company, the West Yorkshire, was formed, for the purpose of promoting two lines, identical in their 'general direction and objects with those of the West Riding Company, No. 1, Leeds by Low Moor and Halifax ; and No. 2, Bradford by Low Moor and Cleckheaton to Dewsbury. The first of these lines might naturally be considered as a com peting line with the Leeds and Dewsbury, and its extension through Huddersfield to Manchester ; but the promoters being united in opposition to the West Riding and Manchester and Leeds Corn. parry, may be considered for the present as in one Interest. We have, therefore, first, the comprehensive scheme above described of the West Riding Company, and secondly, the same scheme, promoted by different independent companies, vie., the Halifax and Bradford lines by the West Yorkshire, the Dewsbury line by the Leeds and Dewsbury Company, and the Cooper's Bridge and Hud dersfield line by the Huddersfield and Manchester and Leeds and Dewsbury Companies in conjunction. In accordance with the principles stated at the outset of this report, our inquiry was first directed to ascertain whether either of these schemes presented a decided preference in itself over the competing scheme. In respect of distance between the several points where connexion is important, the following table will show that there is nothing to give a decided preponderance:— By West By West York. itidingSeheme. shire and Leeds and Dewsbury. Miles. Chains. Miles. Chains. Leeds to Manchester via Halifax 47 60 48 25 Halifax to Leeds Halifax to Bradford ••• ......... ••• 8 42 8 33 Huddersfield to Bradford ...... Huddersfield to Leeds ... 17 30 16 60 Dewsbury to Leeds A more important difference between the two schemes exists in respect of gradients, engineering features, and cost of construction. The two schemes have been laid out on very opposite principles. The West Riding lines generally have been laid out on the prin ciple. that the nature of the traffic would neither require nor jus tify the enormous outlay that would have been necessary in order to obtain gradients equal to those which, in the infancy of railway practice, were thought requisite, and that it was desirable to adopt steeper gradients, in order to economise upon the first oost of con struction. The lines of the rival system, on the other hand, ap. pear to havo been laid out with a view to attaining superior gra. dients, at a much greater cost. The expense of this system is further swelled by the construction of about seven miles of addi tional railway parallel with the existing line of the Manchester and Leeds Railway. GRADIENTS.—As the questim of gradients and curves enters as an important element into the consideration of these and many other schemes, it may be well that we should here state the views by which we have been guided in forming a judgment. Discarding all merely theoretical considerations, we have ap. proached the subject in a practical point of view, referring to the actual experience of existing railways as the sole test of what is admissible in regard to future ones. And first in regard to gradients, The improvements that have taken place in the:construction of the locomotive engine hive greatly enlarged the standard of its capabilities. Not many years ago, anything steeper than lin 200 was looked upon as a decidedly objectionable feature in a line, and enormous expense was incurred in avoiding gradients of steeper The difference of expense in construction between a line with first-class gradients, as it was called, i. e. none steeper than 1 in 200, and one with second-class gradients ranging up to 1 in 100, was frequently not less than 10,000/., 20,0001., or even 30,000/. per mile. The London and Birmingham, Great Western, and Brighton linos, for instance, averaging 50,000/. per mile, while the Grand Junction and London and South-Western did not ex. teed from 20,000/. to 95,000/. Experience has fully proved that no saving either in time or economy of working, has been attained at all commensurate to this enormous additional outlay of capital. Indeed, in many cases, cheaply-con structed lines have been worked at an equal or less expenditure for locomotive power, and at as high an average velocity as lines constructed at twice the expense, This is so universally admitted, that such gradients as were formerly thought objectionable are now adopted every day as a matter of course, and as the capabilities of the locomotive have been enlarged, gradients of a class which would have been considered a few years ago altogether impracticable, have come into general use. It is important to ascertain, by reference to actual practice, the results which have been already arrived at, and which must be taken as starting points to guide us in the consideration of any new scheme. The Lickey incline, on the Birmingham and Gloucester Railway, is a conclusive proof that a gradient of 1 in 37i for a length of two miles three chains may be worked by the aid of an engine con structed far the purpose, without serious inconvenience to an ex tensive traffic. It is also a proof that such an Incline may be de scended without danger by the force of gravity, regulated by the action of breaks. The Sutton incline of 1 in 88, on the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, is surmounted by the ordinary trains of that railway, whose traffic is of a very heavy description, with a single locomo tive engine. On the Newcastle and Carlisle line, an incline of 1 in 106 for four miles consecutively, is sal-mounted by the ordinary trains without difficulty or delay. The use of a stationary engine for ascending the incline on the Manchester and Leeds Railway from the Victoria station, which is 1 in 59 for 1,060 yards, and 1 in 49 for 640 yards, has been in a great measure discontinued, the ordinary engines being found capa ble of taking up it heav y passenger and goods trains of no t less than SO tons weight. On the Edinburgh and G la sg o w Railway stationary lik ew ise been discontinued, the locomotive engine power has being found a mo re efficient and economical substitute on th e Glasgow incline of 1 in 42 for 11 miles ; and recently the locomotive engine has b e en equally substituted for stati onary power upon the inclined plane of the London and Birmingham Railway, from the Euston_ square terminus to Camden-town, parts of which are at 1 in 66 and I in 75. Many other facts of a similar nature tnight be quoted, but the above seem quite sufficient to establish the general proposition,- 1. That gradients of from 1 in 50 to 1 in 100, are perfectly practicable to the ordinary locomotive engine, with moderate loads. 2. That gradients up to 1 in 37i or higher, may be surmounted by heavy trains, with the aid of an assistant engine of peculiar construction. The application of these facts requires much discrimination. Nothing can be more fallacious than a mere comparison of gra- clients upon two lines, without reference to their peculiar circum. stances. In the first place, the distribution of the gradients is a fact often of much more importance than their absolute inclination. A line of au undulating character, with steep laJt short gra dients, alternately rising and failing, may be often worked at 25 much advantage as one where the inclines, although less setep, are of greater continuance. On the other hand, where the inclination of the line is concentrated upon one or two gradients of such length and severity that assistant power is required at any rate, it may bra comparatively unimportant whether such gradients are a few feet in the mile more or less. In this way lines which have gradients of 1 in 70 or 1 in SO, distributed over them in short lengths, may be positively better lines, 1. e. mote susceptible of cheap and ex peditious working, than others which have nothing steeper than 1 in 100 or 1 its 120. Another important consideration with reference to gradients is the nature of the traffic. It may be conceded that although gradients of 1 in 50 or 1 in 100 may be perfectly surmountable by the locomotive engine, they involve a certain loss of power as compared to lines of less inclination. Where the traffic is of such a heavy nature, that the full; or nearly the full power of the locomotive engine is rendered available with the or.iinary trains, any increase in the in clination must require extra power and extra expense; acd therefore, up to a certain point, increased original outlay in improving gradients may become productive of eventual economy ; also, where high speed and great punctuality are very important, as upon a long line, forming a link in a very extended communication, good gradients, if attainable at any moderate outlay, may be very de sirable. But in the ordinary circumstai.ces of a line dependent not so much on a heavy through-trafllc which can be concentrated upon a few trains a day, as upon a local traffic, requiring frequent and I ght trains stopping at numerous stations, it appears perfectly well established that, in a commercial point of view, it is unwise to enlarge, beyond a certain point, the original outlay for the sake of arriving at perfection in gradients. Such a small proportion only of the total cost of working, is dependent, under such circum stances, upon gradients, that the interest upon any considerable additional outlay is far more than equi,dent to any possible saving in working expenses. Toe interest upon the extra cost of construction, occasioned by a slight improvement in gradients, would often be sufficient to defray not merely the additional, bat the totaleost of locomotive power upon the li neof inferior gradients. Experience seems also to establish that under these circum stances, 1. e., of a large local traffic, with frequent trains, light loads, and numerous stoppages, the traffic may be conducted not only with far greater economy to the Company, but also without loss of speed or other inconvenience to the public. A remarkable instance of this is afforded by the working of the traffic between Oldham and Manchester, which has to pats over inclines of I in 39, 1 in 4S, and 1 in 27 for two miles, the whole distance being seven miles, and the gradient for the remaining five miles 1 in 150. Ten trains are run each way, carrying on the average, 1,290 pas sengers and 300 tons of goods per day, at an average speed of 22 miles per hour. The working of the North Union, Newcastle and Carlisle, and other lines, also affords a proof, that with light trains the effect of steep gradients on speed is very limited. The experi. ence of the cases above qii:,ted appears also sufficient to show that gradients ranging from 1 in 100 tip to 1 in 50, or even a higher inclination, may be worked under' ordinary circumstances with per. feet safety. Secondly, wills regard to curves. On this point also practical experiencebas led to a great modi fication of the ideas formerly entertained. The Newcastle and Carlisle Railway presents an instance of a line which is almost one continued succession of curves, of every degree of curvature, up to eight chains radius, and with steep inclines, being worked with economy and safety. The Manchester and Liverpool Railway Company, in their ex. tension line through Salford, have introduced curves, bending in a serpentine direction, two of which have radii of ten and twelve chains respectively, over which all their trains pass daily. The Manchester and Leeds line has two curves of ten chains radius, away from any station, and in a gradient of 1 in 82, over which their trains have been worked for upwards of four years, without the slightest accident or practical inconvenience. Having thus stated our views as to gradients and curves gene rally, we now proceed to examine those of the different competing lincs in question. Upon what may be considered as the main line of each system, viz., that from Leeds via Low Moor and Halifax, the difference of gradients is less marked, the West Riding Com pany having here Incurred greater expense in order to improve a line upon which a considerable amount of through-traffic might be expected to past. Their steepest gradient is lin 100, at which they have two consecutive planes of about 21 miles each, with a short level intervening, and several shorter planes, alternately rising and falling, and interrupted by levels. The West Yorkshire line has one short plane, at 1 its 93, and in another part a long rise of three miles at lin 187, followed by if miles at 1 in 107, If miles at 1 in 161, and 21 miles at 1 in 102. It is clear, therefore, that upon these lines there is no very de cided difference in respect of gradients. On the second line, from Bradford to Low Moor and Dewsbury, the West Riding Company's line has gradients on each side of the Low Moor summit of 1 in 70 and 1 in 73, with ethers of 1 in 68, of an undulating character, and broken by levels and portions of moderate inclination, the longest consecutive rise being for four miles, at 1 in 268, 1 in 88, 1 in 102, and 1 in 73. The corresponding West Yorkshire line rises from Bradford to the summit, with a plane of 1 in 129, and 1 in 132, and falls on the other side in a continued plane of 1 y y miles, at 1 in 87, succeeded by miles, at 1 in 119, one mile at 121, one mile at 158, and half a mile at 1 in 206. On the Bradford side of the summit the West Yorkshire line has an advantage; but on the other side, the continued ascent of miles upon this line, of which the last mile and a half is at I in 87, leaves little or no superiority in respect of gradients on either side. As regards the Leeds and Dewsbury lines, the comparison is somewhat similar. The West Riding line is generally of as undu lating character, having an incline of 2i miles as steep as 1 in 60, and another of the same length at 1 in 62; in each case, how ever, preceded by a plane of opposite inclination, so as to acquire irrpetus for the ascent. The Leeds and Dewsbury Company's line, on the ether hand, with the exception of one short plane of I in 67, has nothing steeper than 1 in 132, but has a continuous rise of four miles at about this inclination. The promoters of the West Riding line have in view the apWi. cation of the atmospheric principle, should its success be conflTO by experience, to working the steep inclines of 1 in 60, which, being for convenient leng , hs on each side of the summit, are pout. liarly adapted for that mode of working. In the meantime, however, both lines may be considered as suffi ciently well adapted for working a light traffic by locomotive power; both as bad lines for a heavy traffic ; but, of the two, the Leeds and Dewsbury Company's line somewhat superior. We next come to the comparative cost of the two systems. The comparison is as follows : Total length of new Estimated Railway to be made. Capital. Miles. Chains. Leeds and West Riding scheme f West Yorkshire ... 33 29 1,60(1,000 Leeds, D, •sbur lluddersfi ' • oewsbury, an, _uddersfield . 19 62 ... 650,000 This great difference in cost between lines effecting the same general objects, and running for a great part of their course nearly side by side, is explained by two causes :- Ist. By the \Vest Yorkshire and Leeds and Dewsbury scheme about six additional miles of new railway arc made, running side by side with portions of the existing Manchester and Leeds Rail. way, which are saved by the \Vest Riding scheme. 2dly. '1 he nature of the works, and more especially of the tun nelling, is much more heavy. _ lii this latter respect the comparison stands thus : Tunnelling, Arching. Mlles, Yds. Miles. Yds. Leeds and West Riding scheme West Yorkshire Leeds, Dewsbury, and Huddersfield— 1 1,406 9 560 The actual cost of tunnels constructed upon existing lines in the district in question, and through similar strata elsewhere, has averaged from about 701. or ROL upwards of 1001. per yard. Upon the Sheffield and Manchester line the long tunnel of three miles, which is nearly completed, having been in process of con struction during the period when the prices of labour and mate rials were most reduced, will, it is stated, cost about 40/. per yard, for a single line, which is equivalent to about 801. per yard for a tunnel adapted for a double line. The question of cost is the more important, as we have sane doubt whether the traffic, although large, would be adequate to support railways constructed at such a heavy outlay. A great proportion of it would in all probability consist, as at present upon the Manchester and Leeds Railway, of third-class pas. sengers, who would have to be carried ,at very low fares; and assuming the lines in question to be sanctioned, they would have to compete for a great part of the traffic that existed, first, with one another, the West Yorkshire Halifax line and the Leeds and Dewsbury being directly competing lines for all :through.traffic ; secondly, with the Manchester and Leeds Company, with which, from its greater resources, they would contend at great disadvan tage ; thirdly, with canals, omnibuses, and other cheap existing modes of conveyance. We feel it therefore to be highly impor tant, with reference to the solvency and consequent safe and effi cient working of the great system of communication which it is now proposed to establish for the West Riding, that economy in the cost of construction should be kept in view. Another obvious objection to the great extent of tunnelling in volved in the West Yorkshire and Leeds and Dewsbury schemes is, that in a district of such dense population they detract greatly from its utility by rendering a considerable portion of it (in this case nearly one-seventh of its entire length), inaccessible. Another point of importance is as to the junctions with other railways. The West Riding scheme has been laid out expressly with a view to convenient junctions with the Manchester and Leeds Railway, se as to allow the trains in the branch lines to be brought into con nexion and interchange with those passing on the main line, without interrupting the through traffic, and with the least pos sible inconvenience and delay, a point of essential importance, and upon which the running of frequent trains must mainly depend. In this respect the ether schemes arc inferior, more especially as regards the junction with the Manchester and Leeds Railway at the Dewsbury station. In their junction with another also, the West Yorkshire Halifax line, and Leeds and Dewsbury, show a remark. able discrepancy. Their line is identical for one mile three fur longs into Leeds ; but the sections show a difference of nine feet in level. On the other hand, the West Yorkshire and Leeds and Dews bury lines show junctions with the Leeds and Bradford line, in Bradford, and with the projected Huddersfield and Manchester line, in Huddersfield, which the West Riding scheme does not. With reference to this point, we beg particularly to draw at. tention to a correspondence which has passed between the parties, because it appears to us to involve a principle highly important for the consideration of Parliament. It appears from this corres. pondence, that in the month of October, or in sufficient time to have laid out their lines accordingly, the promoters of the West provisionaltii"eCommitteertrsof h t ofe Leeds the :I n d ; d ß e i r d s i fi n e g i d s c a h n e d m e Manchester applied h t line, t e to the Bradford Railway Company, and also to the Previsional Com mittee of the Leeds and Thirsk line, stating thattheirwis c hw v a e l that their lines should be laid out so as to give the most on nient and advantageous junctions for the !public, with the other existing and proposed lines, in the event of all or any of them re ceiving the sanction of Parliament, and requesting, with this view, that the necessary plans and sections should be communicated to them. To this application the Directors of the Leeds and Brad. ford Company returned no answer; and the promoters of the Huddersfield and Manchester, and Leeds and Thirsk schemes, gave a distinct negative, on the ground that the West Riding scheme was, to a certain extent, competing with their own, and that they had entered into arrangements with other parties. s, e Altogether lii,yrera,e,riss,j;ecetcott sa o bthi f :.t an st y lo q i u e a st i r o e t f l us o a f l I t i tilm ves er a it6 pri o n f ci t p h le e which The effect might obviously be In place Parliament in the alternative, first, of sanctioning a decidedly inferior scheme in preference to one in every other respect better, because by the favour of some third party the worst scheme had been enabled to show a junction ; or, secondly, of putting up with the inconvenience arising from the want of a junction. We think it therefore deserving of serious consideration whether, as a general rule in all such eases, clauses should not be inserted compelling a junction to be made in the best manner for the public, to the satisfaction of some proper authority, and imposing so much of the expense of effecting such junction as could fairly be attri. bitted to the refusal to communicate plans and sections, upon the party so refusing. _ _ _ In the present case it fortunately happens that the effect of such refusal will not be to prevent junctions from being made. At Bradford, a connexion could, it is believed be made, by adopting a gradient of 1 in 70, which is not so steep as that of the junction in Manchester. At Huddersfield, there is a difference of about 2) feet in level between the terminus of the West Riding and that of the Huddersfield and Manchester line, which there is no reason to doubt might be overcome by proper arrangements. At Leeds, an alternative line is shown, giving a connexion with the Leeds and Bradford, and Intended Leeds and Think Railways. On the whole, therefore, after a careful examination of the de. tails of the d.fferent schemes, we have arrived at the conclusion that the West Riding system is in no substantial respect inferior to the competing system, while In the important consideration of economy of cvnilructiors it has & decided "drantAge. ; . • ,vhc q+o3