The Sun. — London, England, 1803-04-01 00:00:00

1 1104. 1:41v . 1 ROUSE OF FEZ S. THUR:;DAY, IvIA.XCH 31. 'Tut Tieuse, in a Conunittee of Privileges, heard Mr: EttsittKE ar sokne length as leading Counsel in support of the claim of the Rev. Eow. TIlsiEW ELL jilrYDC;ltti, -to the Barony of Chandos, after which -M-r. krroitrie r Girsu LT was heard at cons' ide able-length on' behalf of the Crown. ',rite further. consideration of the case was a( joesned till tomoyeow. e. ., The House Miele resumtii, Pray,.!ri mail, the •several p v t , , roti;Le were. fass—e:l warded in their reiiteitisre - ;• ' , see: sees 'The Order of the- Das , be. ..-, the Leetee': Of the *Micitia e Offieera' • Lotti'Hon Arts moved, "Aias the' Pill be now read a second time," . • - . e . . • • liiofCARNARPON rose to-oppose the proceeding; he delivered his sentiments at some yegth, whic.h were .decidedly, against the leading orovi e ions of the .Bill; his hostility to the mea. Xure, the observed, was founded in Constitutional . The '-Bill,. which went to aptho_ rize the service of Officers not duly qualified, would, : when superadded to the other measures dopted by GoVernment of late years with respeel to the Militia, grind down that Constitutional Force to a . *,ery StandlegsArmy. He was aware of the neceSsiry of Great, -Britain, especially in periods like the presetit,'having a large disposable fince: however, at the` same tirne;' one constituted on the original principles of the Militia. was admirably' 'well caiculated for defensive service. The-conduCt of Government latterly, was such as weot dis. gust the. repeCiehle qualified Officers, and would tend greatly to ditineline.thern from serving i n t h e Militia. Pursuing this line of observation for some time, and:in strong terms; the Noble Earl observed, that were the Bill pasied in its present shape, h e would never again come forward in the discussion of the subjeCtso degraded did he consider the by such a:propobition'.. At the *Preseni - oio. moot he urged the propriety of allowing farther time' for the consideration of-the Subjea ; in that view he moved, in the wily of 'an Amend_ men', ihat.thie wor4 'enost , ' be left out of the. Mo. tiOo ; that this Bill be now read a second lime." /Aid HOBefkreXpressed himself perfeftly aware "of the importance cf the 'Measbre, told his inclinas don to concur in the Motion just made, did he en tettaid any hope of, being able to - . induce the Noble Earl to .:, free to• provisions which he thought wise and necessary. The Noble SecttErhßY then pro. ceeded to defend the provisions of the Bill, which he thought, in sound argument and feet, not at all liable to the objections so warmly urged by the Noble .Earl ; a 'discretionary power was vested in the Lord Lieutenants, who, in cases of necessity, in the event of their not being: able to . procure Officers possessing landed qualifications as heretofore, were authorized"to 'accept the services of a descrip tion., .Dicers, whose admission the Noble Earl so strongly opposed. Hit Lordship then de tailed the prominent provisions of the Bill, which offered arraegements, he conteuded, not liable to the imputed obje4ions. At the same time, he enter tained ,no doubt of the. Lord Lieutenants exerting themselves to find out Officers Italy qudtited, and st On would be [Wit:his to serve. ,51,2,1 v. Officers would naturally be preferred by them._ In .con eltuti g, his. Lordship olinerv , !.(l, that the Noble Earl bad assigned no sufficient reasonforpostponing the second reading of the Bill. The 'Earl of CAR rrA,Rvorr spoke shortly in ex,- p. kord ROLLE seemed to think, that no necessity existed 101 the present ,Measure, which, in 4,ome points of view, he regarded as highly questionable. weertaiti his first pint, lie thought that 'an Of. vial Roulet of the Number, See• of the'Militia Ogicere sh Hid be laid before.the House, and if it should appear that_there were reit a . sOfficieet ndm. l'ser, he should have no objeftion to the'Bill's pass. 1.44'110,8ART, in repjy, as we understood his Lordship,, observed,. that with a reference to the provisions of the Bill, •too great a length of tiine s kt ielti elapse before such a Return could he duly node. ' t CARNARFO Pa N spoke in farther eXpliiiattion, in the nurse of which he repeated his , Observation, that the conduet of Government of late years relative to the Militia, was such as tO, disgust • the Officers in general I respecting this, he entered into some details, and observed, that wereihe elan ,y steln 'persisted in, and the Militia continued, , it would be preferable -to, lower the number' of that fart of the Nationallorce. The Noble Earl was hft eeeding P , When The LORD CHANCELLOR, referring td the point of Order, reminded him of theyteet4 ques. non beft - ne the House. - The, Earl of CARNARPON - expressed his °pi. nion, that what be W/13,1.aying, was regulatly in the way . o r explanation. 7he 10 - RD' CIIA NC ELLO R differed from the 1.1,ar1, and rested his objedion on the ground of his tive3kini a second tithe. Tbr Dmir of MONTROSE spoke shortly in sup port of what tell from the Noble Lord on the Wool.; wic k. With respeti to the observations of the Noble Earl, he conceived none of them applied agai ns t t h e p'lrbetit measure ; they were the arguments adduced iiist year on an neepsion nearly similar, and he hcg. ged leave to nbserve,, that the measures respecting e - Militia so strongly reprobated by. the Noble were not, properly speaking, attributable the Minister, but approvcii by .the latore after full and repeated discussions. The Noble , Duke expressed his r,gret that wen duly gaited were not Seen at, such a crisis as the ' presetft; cheerfully coming forward to serve in that highly useful and constitutional part of the National 'eruct. He approved of the Militia on Ow grounds besides those of constitutional prin. eiple ; it was an excellent defensive system, and being on foot, together with the Standing Amy, t: l ey were reciprocally useful checks upon tacit ot.hr!r. Every man Who possessed an acre of land I,—nc uwctr a mintT(r3TTerVite to tit* Crown, on .thci old principles of the Feudal Constitution. ,It was necessary tO procure an Effeetive Force, and it it could ?tor be done in the way Of hotinty, stronger measures were. necessary. He wv3s adverse to any delay of the Bill, the principle ti which was then as fully understo:A as it couhl.be months hence. f 7: 1 1 : 4 pr r a o r .v 1 o s f ia ß ns :fl o n f A t 'O he ie strongly ili cl al 'a is i p ie pr s o e le m d , s a orn to e would rend still'more •to disgust the 'officers . .• -, 7rd C lIA NC 41. LOR in support of the Mo. IVO, that the . 1 ; ; . s : 4 p ro b at i o n expressed by :of any part . ictilar. provisions a the wi4-?ather a' reason, for its going t a Corn. inittee Arate'opp4tunity .regularly offer for the di: mlsiort.of its principle, With: respea to the maintenance of order in their Lordships' proc:et'dinv., the House would be aware . of its neceisity,-aniIII:-.1 it wa his duty, to the beit of his judgment - to'- see that it stridly took place, without reference to the situation or feelings of iti dividuals.---A necessity -for ating in such a manner, he observed, lidd of late become more necessary than ever. . A short conversation here tonic place, chiefly re spetting points of Order, between the Earl of CARNAKVON, the L:IRD CHANcELt,Ott,• Lords . PHLHAM, ` and r RED EgUAL E ; the latter mentioned Peer adverted to the necessity of main. taining due Order, and alluded to the,delicate situa tion in which thosi were frequently •placed, whose duty it was to enforce it. • Lord CAIVOOR delivered his sentiments on 'the subject at some length. -He declared his attachment to the i ilitia, at a constitutional and effective Force; he expatiated on the services it had pc rfoYtned„ and on the professional .merits end patriotism of its officers., He ,seemed to disapprove of part of the former condnet of Government respecting the Mili. tia, and to express much anxiety relative to the praetice of recruiting the Standinz, Army from the Lard ELLFNBOROUGII made a' few observa-, lions, chiefly respczting the question of Ord e r, an d ,ectnecl to advert to some.' points which had trans. Aired in the •c e onvetsation above ailuded to . He concluded by referring to the dal, Which was int. posed on the Noble Lord on ilos'Woblsack, to in terfere when the Orders of irthic flOpie were tres_ passed upon. The Earl. •of cARNARVON uwerved 'shortly re. speding the qaestion of order, in• consequence nt what_ had Callen from the ; Noble and Learned Lord. The EARp"•of CAR LMR said a few words on the same head, The LORD CHAIVCELLOR conceived it neces sary to make some further ob servat i on , on t h e same point; and 'adverted• to, the distiktions which existed between fair explanation, and a second speech. , The Earl of CBRNARVON was observing upon what had fallen from; the Noble Lord on the Wool- I,ack, when . . Lord,INBART 'rose to speak to Order: he re. prehended the line of observation, into which the Noble Earl was' going upon that ground, and put it to the House if such could be suffered. The quebtion being theft rather generally called for,. the. arsme vas eestaiirly put frOrn the .I.7"cal sack, on which a division took place, when there appeared fOr the immediate Second reading of the Bill, 4 1 Again“ it . z ra........ Majority, On our re-entering the House, -we found the Rani of 0412ArilltrQN on his feet, warmly con. tending against the bill. The iluestion whjeli fur. nished the noble Earl for • thus delivering his sentiments, appeared to be for its commitment. Lordship' spoke at .some length, and urged a variety of detailed observations• against the measure, founded on those principles .which he had adverted to as abOve.--:--4-fe took oc casion to combat an idea of the 'Noble and Lurned Lord's, namely, that because only some of the Provisions of a Bill were objeaed to, At should be suffered' tq go a •Commkttee ,suchi`a mode 'of reasoning, he contended, .may,lif urged in behalf of any measure, hoWever worthy of censpre)or dis. approbation. Lord CANDOR repeated a ' few of his former observations, and tank occasion to put a queskion to the Noble Secretary of State, whether it was proposed again to recruit the Army from the Militia Regi. ments. Lord HonART, after shoed) , alluding to the, na,. ture of the question, said, as we could coned, that he knew of no such intention. The question,was then put, and the• Bill was or. tiered to be committed , on Monday next, and their Lordshiiis summoned on the occasion. Lord Rot LE moved an Addr,e§s to HIS MAJESTY, praying, that there be laid before the [Muse, a ref turn of the number of Officers serving in the Militia, &c. which was -immediately agreed to. The Hou s e then, pursuant to the Order of the, Day, resolved: itself into Zi Committee on the Clergy Residence Bill, Lord WALSINGRAM in the Chair. When that clause was come to,. which 1140 the termination of the suspension to the Bth Uf July, The &finis of St. AS 'OW rose, and delivered his sentiments upon the suhj.ll, of which the Bill before the Committee formed a part, at cons iderable length. He repotted many of his obser4ations of last night, adverted to the indiscriminate operation of part of the Statute of Henry VIII, and described the progress of the various Suspending Bills, which we re passed oithin 'the three last vats. He ex. pressed his disall) resliarirm ok t huscret ,ueeth, , and gave his opinion that if they were not resorted ri, that stature alluded to, would ere : (10W be, properly amended...—He Would go farther, he thought that if the present Bill was assented to, they should hear no mute niche amending Bill till next Spring, and so on. On these •graunds , it was, he' should to .the present instance propose to shorten the term of,thd snipension.—With tesped to the Statute of HE VIII. of which so much had been -said,' and also on the effetts of the 'proeose4 plans for, itt'should be mitigated. He, was fully aware of the pretent and future contingent situation of Ciirates ; if residence ware fully enforced, many of them, naturally would be ousted; but such a conse. quenee coold byino means generally follow'. In il- • lwitrat ion of this position, the Reverend Prelate en tered into rather a detailed view of the `situation of ,COrates in general, particularly those in. the coun, try : He observed a resident Curate was, in many instances, as great a Rara-Avis as a realent Clergy tnan ; this in a , great 'degree proceeded from many Curates undertaking. the.duty of different parishes. The Reverend Prelate also adverted, and with great efted, to the unwillingness which espe cially - • rung Clergymen manifested to undertake the duty okicountry parishes ; they preferred the duty • of populous or market towns, and, above all, that of the m4ropolis, where many conceiving themselves of abilities and eloqiience, were fond, of exhi. biting in the pulpits. Persons, of this description generally employed Curates for the Country- duty, who, in the'event of an enforcement of, residence, would probably be ousted :—but at :the Same rime, there were numerous in s tances,' where, in cases of small livings, the incumbents held also Va luable curacies, of which; however, in the above event, were they to •be ffeprived, they would obviously be not left destitute ; and ~were one description of cases set against the other, those of real hardships - would be found not so numerous 'as was generally imagined, Drawing towards a conclusion, the Rev . . 'Prelate repeated Ilia opinion, that were the Bill before the Committee passed in its present shape, no more would be heard of the general Amending Bill until the next SesSion, &c. Under which c.onviaion, he WAN - move, ‘,( that instead of the Sthyal July, the r3th of May he inserted." The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that the proCeeding adverted to by the Rev'. Prelate, was a Parliamentary acknowledgment ,that the Statute of HENRY VIII. Wanted revision. With respect to the question regularly before the Committee, he ob served, that there was no difference of opinion as to the expediency of continuing the Suspension ; but as: to the interval of rime, the Learned Prelate seemed,. tog°. upon an idea, that there existed an intention somewhere to bring forward a General Bill, which might p►tss before a certain period. On this head, he Wduld say, it were better :not to cramp-such an intention, by too' 'bilked a period, which might preventf,exertion from having its' full scope. For his own part, in, this view of the case, be should vo►e for the longer term, because it would naturally atfora a better chance of the Bill alluded to being brought forward; at the same time be seemed averse to a !Luther suspension.. The Bishop of DU/W.l4lin delivering his senti. meats took occasion to advert to the very great fit. ness of the learned -and respectable Member of the other Houw, who had undertaken the task of the bill alluded to, to do ample- justice to the subjed. But his' Lordship begged leave to question the Fro. priety of seeming to call upon that Gentleman; when his present indisposition was considered. He had the highest poisible opinion of the diameter of that Learned Gentlemen, and was perstiaded he would come.forward as soon as circumstances would per_ mit. him. His Lordship observed, he would nOt then follow the Reverend Prelate who opened the discus. sion, through his . detailed observations, as prob 4. bly another opportunity would present itself. The LORD CHANCELLOR wished it to be distinctly understood,` that he grounded his prefer. ence to the longer term, only because it afforded a better chance of something conclusive beifig done in the interval. • Lord ALI" ANLEY took occasion to obserVe, that if th general Bill should be so far delayed this Session, as not to be brought up.until the beginning of ;July, he should hold it his duty to oppose it ; and he perfenlY agreed in what Lad been so'ably stated by a Noble Lord (ORENviLLE), towards the end of the last Session, reopening the necessity of having a full attendance, particularly -of the Re verend Bench, ,in the discussion of the subject in question. Iiord . AUCKLAND-delivered his sentiments 'on •theqUestion at some length : he noticed the impro. per,etfeet tif sneh'Bills Of Suspension, which in some measure may be said to leave that 'part of the com.. ,triunity without. Law. He argued in favour of a general. Amending Bill, anti which,,among other good effects,' would go to ameliorate 'the condition of the poorer orders of the,Clergy. With resped . to .shortening the term, the other.Htose, in the view of its pecuniary eper4tion, would, on that ael.' count, he induced to rejeo the Bill. Adverting to the .circumstance of a general Amending Bill,. the Noble Lord expressed his opinion that such a measure may; very properly, .originate in. that House ; . and he allud.ed• ,to certain !regulations, which in . such a Legislative. Provision, would be. attended ostitit the Most salutary. efre4,ll. In allusion to' what had been timid 'of the state of the , attendance in that House,' particularly to_ wards the clotie of f a . Bession,. his Lordship made some remarks on the nature .and propensities of man, the almost irresistible attractions of rural retirement or oceupations, at certain seasons or the year,- with a view to palliate that '9=4 . 64)044' and sometimes frequent accessi9n 'from Parlia. mentary Attendance, at the seasons of, the year al- , laded to.. 'Lord ALI'ANLEY, in explanation, observed, ra. ther jocosely; that * were the Noble Lord's. ideas of'green fields ' &c. setup as a plea for the n o n. at . tendance of Legislators,, . there ought to be-a-sort of lui tam proceediugs instituted on the bccasion.— With respeft to' the Bill sb fieipiently alluded to, for his part, he rather preferred.:its_originating in that HouseViii , ;:ittetein it would, most...probably, have a fu4rittlif fOt • • CIiiiNCELLOR, after shortly no ticing what,had transpired 'on . the subje4t 'of non. at teißtinC4,:ind ahsence from. town, observed, that he saw no objeftion to the Bill originating in that 1-I,:use ; but in all probability, a Bill so originating, would require a very full Second discussion t in cot . ). sequence of the alterations which would most likely be made,iii it by the other . House ; a n d p art i cu l ar l y with resped to tilc,subjed of Curates, he observed, vision for them in that HotKe.. ~ Loi-d - ELLENBOROUGII delivered his opinions on the general subjed at some length.- , --He was unfavourable to the prattice of; Suspension.;--A pradice which was never warranted, save by con. siderations of public necessity.— , He rook occasion to•pronounee a splendid panygeric on the charadet and talents of the Right I-lon, and Learned Gentle. . Man (Sir W. SCOTT) so - often ,alluded to in the, course of die discuAsion.—He adierted to the great . . 1 difficulties, as well -as: the: importance of framing , ! Legislative, provisions to remedy' the evils corn. planed of hut - though, they 'could not do all the ' good. they" Whiled ? they should .do all the good ~ they could;. they—should as far ' as'iti them lay ameliorate the Statute of HENRY VIII, by a general Bill: The Noble Lord adverted to a va. riety of provisions which could. ia—siselt.a measure , he intrediced . with the most salutary elPtt. He .ailoded to certain descriptions of the Clergy whom . he thought should not.. be exempted from residence on' pleas Which were at present held as admissible. . Thetionsiderition' of ho'W the Commons may after. wards treat the Bill, s h ou ld not prevent them from originating the measure in that Houser in which ' work he would be most happy to assist, as far, as the very little lei sure hi s o ffi c i a l d ut y a ff o rded,fiim. Lord AUtKLAND and the" Lord CHANCELLOR, cp )ke se v erally in explanation, Lard P.EL HAM delivered his sentiments on the occasion, which in a great de g r e e see med to Laity with tho se of .his Noble friend on the Woolsack. 61 He observed it would ,b e 'i m p roper to a_ o n the presumption of what m a y b e t h e i ntent ion of arlY individual to propose. H e enterta i ne d no objecting to a bill of the de scr ip t i o n a ll u d e d to or iginating in that House : o n t h e cont rary, he seemed to thin k it the better place, particularly with a reference to the Bench of Bishops; and in the 'discussion of the measure, he would cheerfully assist to the utmost of his power. . The Bishop of DURHAM spoke shortly in expls• nation, as did . The Krbvp of 31. AS APH i in the course of which,' lie - deprecated the effetts of misapprehen. sion ; and observed, it was proper it should 13* understood, that the Statute of . Henry VIII. in. stead of diminishing the power of the Ecclesiastical' 'Courtin, went in turtherance of the old law of resi. dance. After some further observations, the Re v. Prelate, w the h ß d f t a s i t i v o his of an S lC r amendment, As, H a having n P t,theEil c Bill went erl b t en ti t i e r c t i , : to through the Committee, and the report was ordered to be received to..morrow. ' ' Mr. Baoorcsa.sstx presented some Accounts from. the Cornmiasioners'of the National Debt. Adjourned at nine o'clock, till to.morrow. ROUSE 'OP COMMONS. TRURSDAY, MALCII 31. Tut Spitakt it took the Chair at half past three o'clock, when the House proceeded to ballot for two Committees to try the merits of 'the petitions, corn. plaining of an undue election for the borough of no with, and the town and borough of Berwick upon Tweed. The following Gentlemen were chosen to try the merits of the Harwich eltetion. . • . Wm. Alitforgt, E sq . The Hon. 41ex. C,chrane, Charles Chaplin,_Esq. Lcotii F. A. Spencer, The Marquis of Douglas, • ' Robert Fellowes: Es Si: Hugh Inglis Sir Qeo. Hai:lay, . ate Hon. lohn ' O'Nitl, Gr The lion. John Scott, Lord Viscount Vunlow, Thomas Everett, Esq. The Hon. St. A. St. John. envillitt Robert Holt Leigh, k.sq. The followiog Gentlemen • were also The Kr. Hon. Ir. chosen by ballot, to try th e m er i ts o f t h e c o ntes ted elation for the town and b oroug h o f B er wick upon Tweed. Thomas Estcottrt, Es q . • . ohn Buller, Esq. _ The Hon. Arch. Acheson, ohn Calvert, Esq. The Hon. J. C. Bamford, it Robert 1 Buxton Batt. The Hun. Henry Lascell es , Alb emar l e Bade, ' Ebel- Wm. Odell, Esq. Lord Kensington, Lord Hervey, . The lion. Charles Grev l ,l John Whlionon, Esq. , Sir lames S. Erskine, five. Sir Robert Pre, Ban. The Roman Catholic Oath Bill waaatead a third time and passed. Sir joint Arronsoi brought up `t e Report of the St. Giles ' s Borial.Ground W3S real and agreed to. The &tunas from the Minutoa of the Donferm. tine Election- were brought up, and ordered to b* printed., Leav,e wns given to Ming in a Bill fot ereaing a new. Workhouse, in the Parish of Sr, Jams, West• minster. Sir JAMES PULTENEY brought up a Report from the Committee appointed to cry and determine the merits of the Carmarthen Eleetion.' The Re. port stated, that the Counsel far the parties con. terned having represented that it would very much facilitate the purposes or justice, that the Counsel should be allowed a certain time to arrange and class the Votes on both sides, the Committee had come to a resolution,to ask leave of the House to adjourn till Monday morning next. The SPEAKER said, that this application sit• itended upon the precise uirords of an Adt of Parija liamenr. By the provision of the Act in question, the House were empowered to alloi,b a Committee . to adjeurn, upon a special cause assigned, and upon the consent of the parties ; it would therefore re main for the House codetermine, whether the CAW assigned upon the present occasion, would induct ' them to grant the permission rsquired. Upon the Motion of Sirla"mis PutrsNET, tht House granted leave to the Committee to adjourn to Monday next. The House resolved itself into a COMMitTio Of Ole whole- House, on' the Grepida..Lop c par k was ordered to be received in.tritoirow..„. The House resolved itself into- a Coiiiiiifti4 of the whole House on the kxchequer The Report was'ordered to.be received.to-fl ,•Mr. ALIXANDVR brought up *the Inn.Kecyere. Subsistence Bill f which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. The Hoare resolved itself into a Committee on the America!: Commissioners Bill, when t h e C;o:n• mittre reported progress,' and have to sit again to.motrow,—Ordered. ,Adjourned at six o'clock till to-morrow,