The Sun. — London, England, 1803-04-30 00:00:00

and agreed to, after which Lord. ELLExporrovoir moved that the Bill be printed. Lord ALF ANLEY took the opportunity to ob serve, t hat he cohceived the recent proceedings with /respett to tile Bill, to be merely of a pro forma na. tore, Did he , regard it in any other light, the pro.. visions.of the Bill appentd ,to be of such an import.. ant nature, and especially 'as there were new clauses introduced, that he should certainly have troubled their Lordships with - 114 opinion upon them. He thought the Bill shnuld be re-committed. Lard ELLEN SOROUG H. in reply,, observed, that it was with a view to enable their Lordships to give the Bill the roost serious and deliberate con. sideration, that he moved to have the !till printed, and that it may lie some time before the House; it was undoubtedly his intention to move to have 'the sill re-committed, but that could regularly be done . only after it had been printed With the amendments. He was always leady to benefit by the correaions of the Noble Lord,. hut it appeared, they both agreed as toithe "proper line of proceeding, they only dif fered ,as, to the time of formally ttioving•• with re. spea to them,—,-The.Bill with the amendments was then ordered to be printlyd,. • The Commitment of the Irish Chalking Bill was, on the suggestion of Lord EL f,EN4oßcitic a, farther deferred till tb,at day month. The Seamen and Soldiers' Relief Bill, and the - Vexatious Arrests Bill, severally wen( through Committees ;,I the whole I louse. A variety of . Amendments, chiefly of a verbal nature, were made in' mth the further, on the suggestion, of the Earl Of RADNOR, and in the latter, (*the pro.' posal of the 440 of MOIRA, which were agreed to by the respective Committees . and the Reports were ordered to he received on Monday. The seund reading of the -Insolvent Debtors Bil! ir . akpostponect, on the Motiortof the Earl of.Mor RA, till Ttleskliy tuiXt; The tetlizlihing Bills before the HOuse were then f)rwardea in their respeaive stages : 'after which their Lotdships adjourned till Monday, 1-10U.S'E 'OF COMMONS, 4 , 1t1D,A.y, APRIL - 29 t ".Tr. V. DI;utIAI brought up the report of the Edinburgh loan Hui.. A Nle:isage from the Lords stated, that they hadagreed to aeveral Private poi*, without any amendment. - 'Ili:, lirtatol Harbour Bill was read a tirst time. The Sp tci roa GewERAI, moved the. Orderof the Day, for ttiet Rouse to resolve itself into a COllllOltW, oaf t he whole House on the Lunatics'. Property Bill. •1 , 11&-soLigrroa i; EU t $ A t. proposed that the report of tht: allienthneors should re,printed: The Bill then went through the Conunittee, and the Re port SVaS ordered to be immediately brought up, after which was orcter.:ct to be taken into further consideration this Jay aenhight, and the Bill with the report, to printed. . was given to bring in a Bill to enahle, the .EaA. India Company to defray the expence of raising. a Corps of _ _ • • Mr. l)tcscixx said he wisho to -khow when the . Edinburgl Road Rill was to be read.. Mr. W. De NDA s replied, it was his Ivislito have the Bill read on Monitily—:whieti the House agreed tn. Mr. HA t‘t us J3Rowt;c brought up a . Petition froth the Freeholders and Householders or the Town of Nottingham, praying that the Nottingham Election Bill should pass. into , l.aw. • . , Th e Petition. was read, and ordered to lie on the Table. ,anal • Mr. .Fox also presented a Petition from the Freeholders and lieuschulders of thu Town of Nottingham, Praying that the Nottingham Election. Bill may not pass into a Law : .which . was read, and ordered to lie - ort the General l,tscc►.t,t:s pre,sented. a Petition from. the Clot!wiers. and .;% (. 00lle.it . Ni.onifactii.rers Of York, prayin4 the to froinl - several Ad relative tc the Woollen Mario. lactory ; ordered to lie on the,Table. Air. I I NS Bitowr.P moved the Order of The I).►y for p se.2)n.t reading of the .Nottingliain EleEt►un Bill.. - The Petitions ,presented on that subject were then read, and Serjeant Lgus appeared at 'the liar, kind addressed the &louse at sent: length against the Bill ;- after the . Learned counsel withdrew ttu►n theliar, Mr. HAWKINS BROWNE said, before he moved tharthe Bitl.should go into-a Comm!! tee', he should tr• iuhle the, House w h a few ober variektis on the sub jecl, aril on the remarks of the Learocd Counsel. It tint( been said by the l if itarned Counsel, that, no par. sicolor charge had been made out agabl-it the Mayor and ivlagistr, , tesiof Nottingham by- the 'evidence 4dtlo;zed in the.,Corninittee, to prove that -they had active part in the rioti, aid were guilty of wilful negle6 ;,but in answer to that Learned Gen tleman's remark, he would say, if the evidence had gone to prove that the Magistrates kid violated the Law to thar extent, he should bave teken i, difierent Measnre, : and have brought them before a Ciiorc of Just iea ; put it was a different species of impropri ety that they:were accused: of, and that was, a shameful ydri,taiiy to fa V . Olll of arid a neglea of i j oi y it. i o ( endeavotning to subdue the riot which t ook.'pl;rcedUring the Eledioo at Nottingham, and .which he had no doubt they might have done if they liailbeeri so inclined. The Evidence called before the committee not only proved, that dreadful riots took )I.tct, during; t h e Elect ion, but ()omit oceasiont in that • v i wn it wa,i tht:refore necessary some measure !s hould be adopted for the safety of the Public. — The Bill . Now before the. House, g cic i to destroy t h ose scenes of disorder and wickedness which-have been the companions of the Town of Nottingham too-long, and. he did not d but it would tend to 'produce that comfort to the Inhabitants to which they have been a considerable time strangers. He could not suppose that any, Gentleman in that IfOUsei .'would rake it upon, him to say, that dreadful 'iota have opt existed in Nottingham; and therefore, that tpe case, he thought every Member would allow that sonic measure ought, to he adopted, to keep the istatre of the Corporation and County, and therefore those Geotbrinen who, objet to the present Bill, -Should suggest some measure render the inhabi. tants secure from riots and continual disturbance. lie would assure the House, that if:the present Bill into a Lavi, and:did not answer the purpose he , would be one of the •first' either to .amemi it, or give his vote, for tnakiig it void, for illy Bill. that the ilouse should think better .calcu bi tell for thE ,suety of the public peace : but certainly 4 SUIiIC, measure is highly necessary to corre the abuses coMplained - of. It must he "evident : to the House, if we admit no, blante..cao posSiblY :mach' to 'the . Magistrates, that. their ; ,proe o t power- 13 not Sufficiently strong to secore;t . he pence of the Town. The strong ground upon, vitlich he has gone, and the evidence adduced before the Cuttimitttee, go,to prove that the evil complain ed -of calls loudly for redress. -In his mind, the scenes of vice which stave been witnessed in Not. tingham, exceed all discription. If we were ro.go beyotul the iitarement of the evidence before the Qormoi:ttee and boiler persons to 'be called to the 1 Bar of the House, there would be no difficulty to prove that tumultuous parties have deStroyed the peace of the Town for these ten years past. There were strong political. parties in Nottingham, and he would state to the House one among many cir cumstances which gave rise to much confusiondur ing the late War. A number of persons would -coiled at the entrance of the Town, to wait for the arrival of the ,Mail Coach, to learn the success of our Navy and Army, and whatever intelligence ar. rived of any importance to these politicians, was not argued on with temperance, but generally caused great confusion between the parties, and frequently ended in a dreadful riot : by this detail of fails he did not mean to censure any man for taking an in. tereSt in the welfare of, his Country, but when p 6.. litical differences engendered tumults dangerous to , public safety, he thought it necessary that some' steps should be' taken to secure the comforts of the. 'lnhabitants. Nothing as yet had been adduced to satisfy him that the Freedom of Eleition had not been violated, and that there was no occasion to give a concurrent authority to the Magistrates of the Coun ty : on the contrary, he thought some remedy ought to be taken to put art end to the confusion mentioned, and did not see a single evil that could arise from the Bill now •in the Hduse : he ' should therefore move, that the Bill should go into a Committee of the .whole House on Monday next. • Mr. HENDERSON, said, he. concurred with the last Hon. Gentletnan, that the evils complained of required amendinent , by Law, and that the Peace of the Town had been disturbed many years by tumul.' tuous assemblies ; he therefore thought that the pre. sent Bill was calculated to produce much good In the town of Nottingham; but he had great doubts whe ther the Bill could pass into a law, consistent with the ancient law of the nation.' • The object of the Bill is to increase the number of Magistrates for the County and Town of Nottingham ; but accord ing to an, Afft of the 27th of Henry Villth, chap. 2+, the appointment of Magistrates is vested in the Crown, and the dice of Magistrate is procured by Letters Patent, from the Great Seal. Ile observed, however useful the Bill would be to the inhabitants of Nottingham, he had not a doubt but it was not only contrary to' •the ancient Charter of the Town, but the established Law of the Land. Me.'FOX said, before he came to state his ob." jedions to the Bill now in the ,House, ,he could not forbear reprObating the enhandsome..way the Hon. Gentleman opposite to LIM had treated the Magi strates. If the Mayor iiiiil Magistrates have acted contrary to Law, it would. be the duty of the Honourable Gentleman and the House to bring them 7into a Court of Justice ; but he thought the method taken to degrade them i n t h e p u bli c o pi n i on , .without making any thing like a charge, was highly censurable, and ought to rued with the disapprobation of every man who considers the me. sits of the case. - He would ask, what was the charge against the Magistrates ? Did the Resolutions con tain any thing like proof that 'they had sandioncid a riot at Nottingham ? He would answer, , " NO." Why were these Gentlemen not accused of an of fence in a direct way, if they had committed any thing criminal ? But he was sorry to say, the Hon. Gentleman.had endeavoured to make out a charge in a dark and unintelligible language, which goes 'to rub them of their peace of mind and, cha ratter, wiih. Out any thing like proof of guilt." The Resolution cmtained a charge apparently lenient, but which teased them by pains and penalties. He would ask the lion. Gentleman, if the Magistrates were guilty Of the offence talked so much ot, why not come fors ward and exhibit their wickedness by something like proof ? He was . satisfied the Resolution 'in which the Magistrates were mentioned' as having 'done wrong during the Elation, atuoupted to no thing that would incur either punishment, or cen ‘ sure of Parliament. Many Gentle:nee who ,have 'perused the Resolution, acknowledge that it only expresses a doubt of their 'guilt. This was the only meaning it conveyed, it was therefore very hard that the 'Mayor and Magistrates shOuld sutf:r by mere. assertion, It was true the evidence was very, ' voluminous,' yet there was na part of the evidence that affeded the Magistrates for not baVing done ' their duty to the best of their ability The Preamble of the Bill stated, that ruinultuous, conduct has existed for many years', and therefore it was common to the - town. Th e f a il s are , t h at , there are two parties at Nottingham,one by the name of Loyalists, the other by. the. name of Jacobins, who were continually opposing each other. ' He would Mention a circumstance which the lion. Gentleman opposite to him had concealed, and which would screw .the'diffleultythere was in,keeping an inflamed populace from ads of violence. A Gentleman, of the name of Davison, who is a Magistrate, had his • ~ house pulled doWn some few years ago by a Notting.: ham Mob, notwithstanding every endeavour was made to prevent the, riot ; this chews the difficulty there-is, particularly at an Elation, to keep a M o b from committing some ads of outrage, and there. fore is it to be supposed that an Elation Mob are 'easily kept in order ? The Magistrates, he. could . prove, bath done every thing in their power to pre, vent the riots at Noitingbain, The freeddm of El ec _ Lion was one, of the blessings of the English Coma- tution, and lie would advise the Hon. Gentleman opposite to him not to carry the Law too far, as it might produce many evils, - and' occasion much confusion. The last War has caused many ,persons to divide in opinion on the propriety of the Nation , entering into it, and ,as many persons had suffered much by the War, as far as related to their trade and manufaaories, they. Iherefore indulged a :wish to suppOrt those• Members who opposed the War, He • therefore thought any attempt to prevent the Inha bitants from chewing their zeal Tor a particular Member, would he dangerous. Ile should repeat an observation he made, on a _former evening on the subject, that this was, not,•;the only Town where Riots accompanied Eleekions ;,•.yet „no notice' had been taken of them. He (begged, leave to call the attention of the House to theßiotsiin'the year 1780, which were suffered to, get roan alarming - hvglit, before the Magistrates exerted -themselves to pre.- vent them. No one could doubt, who knew t h e fails, but the City Magistrates were very inattentive .► to their duty ; yet no attempt• Was made to get th e . concutrent Jurisdidion of the County of Middlesex, over the. Corp Oration of the City 'of London, which , would have been contrary' to the ancient ',Ora-tic:A of that City, and it evidently was contrary to the charter of the Town- of Nottifigham. He would he glad to know why the Magistrates of Birming ipm did not get the concurrent jurisdiction cif the County of Warwick, when half the houses in Bir.. mi fig h a m were destroyed ; yet the . Magistrates were not called to an account for not having pre. vented the destruction which took place on that oc casion. The Judges have paid the Corporation of Nottingham, on many. occasions, great , praise for maintaining good order in the Town : and, which is also, known,, that the Judges have ,observed a smaller number of offenders have been brought be. f„re them, n -the Town of Nottingham, than in any other of the same : 'magnitude in England. During an Median ii has always been thought pru. dent to give the mob" a certain indulgence. He was sure had not Mr. Coke stood the contest, no con fusion would have taken place. He could prove that the Magistrates had done all theycould for the purpose of giving ' each Candidate satisfaction. If these Gentlemen had aded contrary to Law, and their offence was at, all brought home to them, he for one would wish to see them -ptinished, as an example to other Magistrates. It was by Charters that we preserved the freedom of the Constitution, and wherever we lost part of our freedom,'it was by the destrudion of antient Charters and Privileges. He therefore thought this Bill would go a great way to rob the Town 'of part of its freedom ; he should not object to this Bill, if it only gave a concurrent jurisdiction to Magistrates Of the County during an Election, or in case of a riot, except one Clause which applied to the Magistrates, and which he so much reprobajed., In order to slander the Mayor . and Magistrates, it had been repotted, that they had sanctioned the exhibition of a naked female, who was called the Goddess of Reason—This, with se. veral other stories, were circulated* to their preju dice, and an attempt was made to prove the truth of these stories before the Committee;but it failed, as the Chairman of the Committee would not admit the hired' witnesses to give their evidence. • Mr. BOND said, he had the honour to be one of the Committee on whose report this Bill was originally founded, and he' had given mud) of his attention to the subjed ; he had formed an opinion upon it, and that opinion was decidedly opposite to that which had been expressed by the Hon. Gentle. man who had just sat th,wn, and he felt it' his duty to speak upon the.strbjed: he was anxious to do so, particularly on accoanit of what Was stated by an Hon. Gentleman opposite to him on the point of Law, fur he had .argued it in some resped as con. trary to our Constitution, because it tended to create a Magistracy, which was the undoubted pre- - ' rogative of the Crown; but that was a misappre hension of the operation of the 'Bill—it was . not to create any Magistracy, but to extend the authority of a Magistracy already created, and that an At of 'Parliament may do this without any invasion of the prerogative of the Crown, he had many ana lagous cases to shew ; and when he had done so, he • should relieve the anxiety of the Hon. Member on the point of Law. _As to the hearing of Counsel at the - Bar s he did not think, that in strictness, the parties were entitled to be heard by Counsel on this subject, but he assented to it,- because he did not wish to shut the door against any information which the House might receivt!, and therefore Coun. set wag heard, , 1-le-lead• t ;reat respedfor that Learned Gentleman; both for' his abilities as a Lawyer, and charader as a man, but he professed not to have Changed his opinion, from his arguments. He then proceeded to' take notice of the arguments of that Learned. Serjeant, and said,-that he made no obser. vations on the evidence on which this was . founded because he had no"materials for that pur pose, nor upon the preamble of the Bill for the same reason, neithetr.did he call any evidenCe on the part Of his Clients, and. that for the same reason also. The Preamble of the Bill was important, to he at. 'tended to in this Debate---that preamble did not ,merely state the late riots at Nottingham, but took' notice of many former riots there, and the single . question now propounded to the House, was, whes Cher they should apply a remedy to that evil I As to the punishineat, of which the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, had said so much, and had said it, was without convidioo, he knew of no punishment ' or , convidion necessary to support this Bill, nor was any thing necessary to be adverted to,for that pur pose, but the Evidence and the 'Resolutions now upon the Table. He was surprised to hear the Bill now before the House, called the insulting hos, gtuige of Lenity—if there was in that Bill any lan guage of insult, he was glad to bear his share of that insult. That any Gentleman froM reading detached parts of the evidence should say that the, Mayor of 'Nottingham deserved praise, he shoUld oot"wonderq •liut if any bOdy who had read it through, which was necessary to the, proper understanding it; for it was not like some briefs that art delivered to -Counsel, where •he might jump over the parts which, were , iminaterial, anti yet miss nothing which was im. portant, but if, he said, any body who had read the whole of the evidence,. question anii answer; "should say that the Mayor of Nottingham deserved praise, he should indeed wonder. He had no hesi tation in saying, that if silty Member of that House, on reading the whole_of that evidence, would say that the Mayor of Nottingham deserVed praise, why then, said Mr. BAND, he has a temper- and a mode of thinking, which I neither have nor envy. He had- noscruple in saying, and he pledged whatever charader he had as a Lawyer in that House, that the Magistrates of Nottingham were criminally re. sponsible N. their coraiud at., the late Election ; but he did not advise them to be pursued, on that account, for this reason, there were many very ma terial circumstance, , of extenuation in their ca s e ; and therefore, alihough . they were criminal, yet, with his imkr.ssion of t he. circumstances of extenua. tion, it watolds , wish-onst his inclination, and if it was the lanpage of f ils k t•tit,' he must hold- it still, that lenientAneastsres liould he adopted ; but if it became neees 4 sary to ad Opt other measures, an d if h e was'driven to th'em by opposition to this Bill, and if • he could have no : remedy such a.s this Bill proposed,' an d which itre congenial to his wishes and to his d,spo s i ticsn , he most pursue these Magistrates as criminals, 1 , , , r to sac!) a case, when' tilers was nt) other rem , dy, he would pursue Tile CrliirSe of poi tic without regard to private lenity ; shut if this Bill past, •he shouhi not be driven to that mire. ' He had hitherto avoided these ennsitlerations, .by proposing the present Bill, in which the House had , not the trouble of trying the guilt, .or diScovering the innocence of the Parties. Having said this, he would now call the attention of the House to the sort•of case which was now`before it :, with regard first to the justice of the case, he would 'inquire, whether this was an invasion of the rights of any Parties ? and if it was an invasion ? then, whether it was strictly necessary. He contended that this was no invasion whatever--confining the right of • Elelion to a few, t;;;ght render that right valuable -', L • ,to those who had it, but this was not applicable to the ,case of Magistrates ; it'was not for the. Vii• We of it to a Magistrate that the power • cuss .:' given,to him, it -was for the better advantage of the place where he was to aft, and if that advantage was not:accomplished by the office not being properly filled isp,• the public interference of that House seas necessary ; .this was particularly the case of. Cur.! potations : from the nature of their constitutions,: if their Magistrates did not properly fill up their hafo rn.t,h feo rl_na , si attbbhieetyapnretbsAeincamobfi preamble 0 fc a htfa b i er l t o . t upon the cha raa er) advantages a w g e e r s e not but i l i i i k ei e r, none of the common. privileges of another place-ed.. • evil-of their Magistrates' inefficiency, thei-had,no, hß e a r im e u d ,s io te r ii po , r t a it t a i t o l th o u i d s steam a did not do their cic o d rain u r t rat l eo : in t h ws e al y ill iic c ei o la u is l f i t ht n eo o i t r cure e lVi n jo g the t i ; so that they might be said to be left out of the reach of the Law, and might be said to be out.la wed. • This, he maintained, was the case of the Town 'of Notting had often. happenag at Notting all the informs' don the House had upon its. Table proved this, nor was there a single witness called by the . Learned .. Counsel at the Bar to prove that the fads were rot .. so. The truth was, that riots at Nottingham had happened from time whereof die memory of rive runneth not to ;he contrary; but it seems they 1 1 ;u 1 been used to ,it so long, that it was proper they . . should endure it longer. This was an arguree o ...-. like that which the cook made use of when she Was ' . • accused of cruelty in skinning live eels,—that the)' were used to it. Such was the case at Nottingham , they were used to riots there. This was not only the case of an Eledion for a Member of Parliament , but of every eledion whatever. At theeledion for a Common Councilman there was a riot, and violent, outrage, when the. pradice of what was called spencering was introduced, that of cutting elf the clothes of those whom the mob did not like, Witt that praBice had continued.. The elation of a , Churchwarden, which was carried on in the church , . was most impiously and scandalously outraged , where such scenes were aded as we never before heard . of in a church in any, Country, except ones thank' God. It had been said that the Magistrates of the town of Nottingham, had received the thanks of the Judges once ; now he had information on which he could venture to depend, from some Learned . Friends of his; that riots often happened at . the time of the Assizes at Nottingham. He knew ', that 01)e Learned Judge had said that he would never go, there again. That another Learned Judge hod observed riots at the time of his sitting to a dini. nister Justice, that lie had called on the Sheriff to Jo his duty, to put an end to the disturbance ; the she riff' riff in a soft tone of voice; said he could not---".'c . Judge said , :hut a Noce was. Ire resti"'" l ' I five minutes, he should adjourn thc,Court anti g° it ' fi London and report the matter, and then.silence w as obtained—this proved that when a proper exertion , of authority took place, tranquillity might he le stored. Jr was said there was nothing like thi' Bill to be, found any where, whereas there were Ind 1 . cases analagous to this. The power of Magistrate,' under Charter had been increased where 'their power had been found deficient, This was the case of the Borough •of Leicester ; the Magistra te° . f. there had a power of conctirrent jariSdidton Over , , 1 parts of the County. The same case appli ed to. , Ciitlierne, where the Magistrates of the Bo rou g h interfere with those of the County, and this VW' ciple• was recognized in a statute of Henry V II. which he cited. There was also an Irish Mt of PO: liament of the 38th of George 111. c. 73. by whic'' the Magistrates .of the Counties can go to all the i Boroughs to convict those who are guilty of selling . Spirituous Liquors contrary to law. The CoventrY. l - case was likewise • a case analegotts to the pteserl t proceeding; it was an Mt for regulatieg the moue of admitting Freemen, and making it different from what it was before ; all these, in his apprehen d ' s were cases ;malagous to the present—they she''' . e t c that Parliathent had interfered, in the cond ue 1 t:" Magistrates in Boroughs, as well as in plows wit!'" out Charters, when the Public welfare could not ho, I 'supported by these chartered Customs. Here, in, deed, the evil was of a larger size, and there‘, fore, the remedy should be of a larger extent,: Tut did he ask for a larger remedy than vil, necessary ? He said, decidedly, no ; but it the Bll j was to be put into the shape which wits recotornetie, , by the Honourable Gentleman who spoke last, ' t • would deserve the name Which- the Honourable Gentleman gave it-in its present shape, that of ! • foolish Bill ; indeed, it should, never be called his Bill, he should'heg leave to withdraw from it al''''" l l gether, and so he believed would all his Hon. Fried who suonrted it at present. 'use Hon. Gentlem an e said, that the jutisdiaion of the Magistrates Of. t n County should he confined to times of tumult alone'' If he thought that would 'answer ;My good puri x '' 4 he had a mode 'of estimating human stature wi1 1 , e ,,, h he (Mr. Bows) . did not possess. ' He knew il oth l of Nottingham, excfpt from that which upon the'‘l'able 2 'ol . that House at this moment. Ti _ t l Hon. Gentleman had given'the 11,3 use an accurate ,_ account Of Parties, and that Honottrable Gentlent,.. had more reason to know Nottingham ,than ~lr', himself had ; but he must express what he fel L !.:_ . which was, an anxious wish, that ledeeentle n i " . Gentleme.'n should , ad . for Nottingham; :toil if 111: , 1 1 was not to be the consequence - Of oppeae.:c .. • vouit the Bill, it . ~. be an useless Bill. But hi would ask, how, %v't", , out insulting common sense, could it be require.ea_ 1 that a person who was to ad as a Magistrate und t a r . ~ 'the authority of this Bill, ..thar he should take ou c 1 y On.. dediMilt POilliaten for the purpose of mere lis , ning his head into a riot, without 'teeing ratty-m eans , of preventing riot, which was the most intereastti # IV gt- anxious, and - solicitous part of the duty of 3 • 1 ,,... ..• every gooi Mtgistratt exercised inuca t,, 4 4?", strate, of:I good MAgistrette---Evcry one k u n f e i 4 i ' l : 1 1 :: ~:il ; i4 ; ~_, ti