The Sun. — London, England, 1844-02-17 00:00:00

own Lstice had Li it, been e been rnlti who ity `al for all h ri, but ye taken en. nvver stood Was it la trial-- erleral A laug h ' ) rnber for mu , t , boo; n gredig ° ' r• ) celebrate- THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY MORNING, FEBRUARY' 17, 1844.. and Learned Member for Bath, and . „ the Noble Lord the I"l•anber for Sunderland, that they toeld not maintain the onr\ioe aed destroy the Church lastablisameat.—(Crie . s h 0 ., f , k'i'h, ' 41 ," from the i t il hel that House to represent. the . people or the Unt'ed 4atatZni• to . I. he People of the United Kingdom were net these wild and revoluimeary d0c , .r e i . i1, ,.. . itneY wished t o see a steady course of unit 4t adopted in Ireland and else . wher . e, e not as to see amelioration attempted by the cl . wink tf "t,horeky cf destroying there was the E•tablislicl Chureh:—( Hear, i ear ) But at at ,_,,a third party in that II- use--the party 01 bet , i"ty , famernment. lie be:ieved that their . r olicy , was to maintain es tablishments—not to maintain their abuses , but to i Th er l i i t t lta by improving them ; and he believed that the ma ii,, .3' f the people of England were with them on that point. he was certain that the were not for the grant of . 8,002/.. i e t 'sir eo "' was certain that theyy were not for the destruction of th Cfhlre.h. He belived tfiat they would best consult the feelings a decided nstituents and the welfare of the country, by giving it s . , negative to the motion of the Noble Lord, having for tit nothing that was intelligible, nothing that was prac re,!o°,le, nothing that was even respectable enough to be called s lutionary —( H - hear ) ai r , • Car, . to, '-'• BULLER, who was scarcely audible in corn ohelng his address,said that before he addressed himself to the eels before te liouse, he would advert to two doctrines of that novel applica tion n u .n . d been thrown out in support b e ... 1 the doctrine of conspiracy, which had been brought to p e 4 t.t r . against certain Members of the!, House; where, by e leg tegether half of one Member s sentence and half was first eii•°t:et's alember's sentence, a very foamidahlechasge was a tet ° h ut, of which neither Member was in fact guilty.. I:he gre a i e "rge was that broached Noble that evening ; andwith the great astonishment he saw the Noble Lord the Secretary for stav voionies take a note of it.—( Laughter.) On the a r h "gth of the speech of his Hon. Friend the Member for t f ef6e4i t they were charged with conspiring to repeal the Act not The Noble Lori himself (Lord Stanley) ,had he u a t r Y ,, e , t_ s_, , , ,,. : L een upon this 'subject.--(Loud cries of " Hear, G oer and laughter.) They had only heard the views of the a le nnient expounded to them by the Hon. and Gallant te a ' b er for the county of Donegal, who, he must great oti t of odium under which he supposed himself to labou r r e . that L tlat side of the House.—( Hear, hear.) He could assure they and Gallant Member that, however opposed to him Personal ht be in panties he believed there was no feeling re o! tall 'la hostility to him on the part of Hen. Members ge , n. Nl' on that side of the House.—(Hear, hear.) On theh wereco rgnezYtie,owhen he made inquiries among those Members w , l'Posed to him, they all said that he was a very e w r o orthy good he elo m an, and he (Mr. C: Buller ) thought he seeme a He told "'re eland kind-hearted man. —( Laughter and cheers. ) sitte Rota Friend, and he supposed all of them on a ti r l ' a s t th ern °l the House that he had no feelings of hostilit tw li on He referred also to spoliation. He could . assure thewish did • and Gallant Gentleman that he had not the least . his ' lr li ate h( Laughter. ) He wished to relieve t h le i m m a o n did, :ne e __ ,•(Laughter.) He must say that that gen e said he an ", Ine strangest language he had ever hear tf hi s ' s l "°take d —d good care that they should notdeprive him eleat„ . ....0..a0 . Ru nicus ab normis —• • ill to t‘ g N n e ter. rneus hic sermo, sed quod precepit Ofellus, ) The Gallant Colonel said that they were go d° a shyest him of his religion.—(Laughter.) He would It We s j i e ell a. cruel thing for the world.—( Great laughtea. la" was e s ues thing he ever saw that religion of his,. and . 4e,tire he did not wish to spoil him of it —(Continued Of'cje",er)and if he might use a little variation, for th seemedsake acli —°r4 a, he would observe that the Gallant Colonel ) N oW t l i to take good care that they should not.--(Laughte n r n h%ntl e thought one word would dispel the alarms of l H ent . eat erne ° oPposite with regard to the Act of S . ett em f the . 1, 04 s Ac t was intended to guard against the claims o it ead e f ) , f St uart, and as all the members of that house were rter a-aare did not see what danger could exist in tbatqua .. L e Th e ar, and laughter. )‘• - •There was another . charge . towhich,. lot —l'n Particularly refer 'because he recollected its efficiency in V?: heirneo—the char t g; of alliance with Mr. O'Con h ne f lh o — m t nit e r h' " e ar.) lie ( alr. C. Buller) would . not ti,inted withr Al t , of!•,g—he had generally—almost invariably nei ee '-'onnell upon lrish questions except the repeal ‘oe of the "ats,C ;; . il, e was not ashenmed of having done so.. He ar a t d aria e e " i tu him when his aid was useful to the Liberal , thethe er • we luld not shrink from his aid now that he was under o'ightof a Government prosecution.—(Loud cheers from whatsP,P"'ltion benches ) He would declare in that House lai n had stated re eat ell elsewhere, that he believed no sand,sid e : g a rie hil d a u n e h n a t d ie d rn o a n n e .o P n , .u t t eh Y f r his country as that Hon. and her o efore, viewing his policy on one trisli, tl „ 4 , t he Policy ev ery s opponents on the other, he was i ncise: ; !° carp at fault or to run him down for eve r y d afili et f e ` t 'un, but he would stand by him now that he . was un t.o e n r was -41' ' so ts, he was of opinion that the Irish ques h i er ne"e upon which it was worse than which restelieeal their opinions on the grounds upon d an de l , If there really did exist in the state of Irelan y toe s u was not" to be apprehended in . any other part of k t th d kingdom he thought the worst thing the could do 'ttese etr c uuntry Was to conceal it. It was in fact y useles d s to I,,,,iciPt, conc ealment—all the world knew ;the facts, and it tra ria °° folly to endeavour by any solemn muttering, in th e" ' t° gull the world into not believing Il e ie r elis tence of a danger which they perceived . themselves. et for the fore it was he thouht the House would give him ca d t i !leas t ; sincerity and earnest conviction that induced t him ch o . i ti on .and even if he might shock some gentleman by r o w u dent to t e s ',Tics which on ordinary occasions it was not Ins e zo s ' in that House, the necessity of the case should p he that douse us e. Another ground of excuse he thought should be Y were aware that the tone in which they spoke in i hat 4was more in unison with the state of public fee t ing lathae used to be. They could net disguise that the state of ' , id e ,t.eeling and their own feeling, as shown by their th e in that:House, was different from what ued' i to be—that the Public were aware ' that there was some mischief in epgite which was not to be counteracted by temporary b e eo ,,tios of the old method of treatment, but which must of th:ateracted forthwith, it they meant to maintain the peace ig g cia ettpire, They knew that, and that it was an encreas elat, l 'iger, and that many ancient prejudices which used to stead Were fast fading away, and that our countrymen, tv,iiyi.t : r f so b l e i beg at averse to the man who spoke the truth, would v.. ether grateful to him, and still more grateful to who would suggest had remtoedydeifr with * al the aTl' evil which they , ore y .... aged disaffectionof thirish people. He was very te ed e to have to use, in that . House, words that had been fa rae "Y gentlemen on the opposite side who represented , the th 'Re party in Ireland. He need hardly say ? d the t , at when he used those terms he totally repudiate . spur. to he was sre ,iie_nwhichthey were applied. But still he felt it impossible aa7_y that, in a certain limited sense of the words, there existed Ireland disaffection, not, indeed, to the Crown, but to the Government and some of the institutions of the empire. He c ould not doubt it when he looked to some of the proceedings Aof the Irish p eop l e—to the language of those persons who had egis weight with th em; and when he looked to the language of a t.,spaper (the Nation) which, having been only started about iataslve months ago, had, within six months from that period, a ger circulation than any paper in Ireland—when he looked taitiite indications of temper manifested by the . public meetings,. e re _er , he compared those things with the private accounts h „ ye tired from individuals, he could not doubt that throughout , greater part of the Roman Catholic population of Ireland,. n ther e e • 4 ,4 h xisted the greatest alienation from this country. _ an 'tereede‘y'all was prepared to believe that fact. We had ff g , tie Ireland as if our object had been to alienate the a sc hat' w of th e R oman Catholic inhabitants of that country, and tieaanut suprised at our h av i ng i n a grea t d egree succee d ed. atith'l'd this not lightly —not without consideration, and ta t , no intention t o exaggerate. It was a frightful t ea l to have te admit the existence of such a state of things Itop eh l t a portio n of the people, to believ e th a t one -f our th o f th e tvet eee i ° ll of the empire —as the Roman Catholics of Ireland anewete er e as hostile to the Government of England as the po- Pop e 6: uf Poland was to the Government of Russia, and the lthat ;a ki n, of Lombardy to ku , tria \Vas he not borne out in id t ' e - a` v uY the words of the ' Government ? By what tenure tte t e:7 hold Ireland ° Was it not the same tenure by which Pwe' he Kland, and Austria held Lombardy, namely, the wrong of an overwhelming military force ? If h i e was le .14 those matters, - he should have much pleasure tectePaig corrected. But he was not to be cor ms se ee " l , s ; the mere expression of repugnance to -hie forw ar d But it was necessary for the Government to Vie, an with proofs of the good disposition of the Irish he 4 1 n order to show that he g. In the meantime %t ett ; ; take the evidenee of the was wron facts that were before the 'lttsi t ,,,Y , by those facts he could come to no other con 'elY d e ' e , t ,"an that the alienation of the Irish people was not Nval art r and extensive, but also of a permanent nature. It s a v e , a. alienation of religion and race. —( Hear, hear.) It Pretest'l alienation of Roman Catholic Ireland from li:i rl " th at t E e n ri g ti l and t ,• and . it was evidently tending to which alienation o f people eo tio lf tinder the same Government atp eri e t t i aete r a rr, , a ue -7 said d vej i n a m t e a n i t t e he t inevitably tend if not I lt tial s , °- ' L t'd the Irish people them mlr s ut ei h ve w s aevreowaetmdliyngasaktedtotal e 10,4P:ration frorn us. Now, he must confess that when t kt r at eit t t ls a e rit atthethe course that discontent was taking, he was aspect it presented—the great numbers—their Per g ene: cownfeetitrated zeal—thair being m . arshalled under the all eat or . on e man —their exhibition of . the . most the lle gainsaton, and of the greatest intelligence— martial. 'were features that combined to present a t eallt t b asp ect, th i - t n th e world He believed there was no Govern ee . 4 t he which that possessed a more powerful machinery the side of lta r ri hostil e , WM to be met with in Ireland, by tee; 0C 0 .,...` ° ,! the regnlar Government. Honeo titorual'ait exercised the most perfect control e o ve Y d er th si a z t, t rs of 11:11 countrymen. The exertions of even an inert th ete Y had as` 'magnitude would be very dangerous, but nog p ew a leader Mr. O'Connell, who wielded l e w e existt ee r'e ,bY an agency teob old 150cr ded Oaers....h a b , i lay that means, and by thteheorgamnoissattionfloci powerfula l 44 °11 neu ‘ , 0 „ 4 1 4ot e xaggerate, surely, when he said that I 1 r. all ent t i . id li t. a thh t eey m m. ass as though they had but one "c o ti . n e t tV e b e Y w it s ill i7 . ll.t w w er h e en and whither they were . t o to be for action or inaction wlit e jn, th e iLl waYs implicitly obeyed. To a ny think they' the Irisilnost formidable feature inaspect ote..Preserved. People presented, was . .the the quietness le a p ro . They broke out into no partial riots, and the 141tieY w e vocation °Quid not force them to appeal to arms. tit ee nn'ttetdotthLere as if conscious of their strength, and det.er hs , e , Pro per "row it away in any rash attempt, but to strike W 4 ,4 44, le t ta rn° rnetit e and with good effect. Wherefore it was Den the pl a i n em , not disguise the fact from themselves. That th ei t l e cal tr , le ' t ... l'a Of things in Ireland. They had a reflecting Or 'ts.t.te„gtvaa.(ititiair. for the moment when they could t. h ings th e !nett It was . ear, hear.) Now, was that a state of h liteC ti iten ee ;' V:sand just to their countrymen to eo n n t c o e t a it l caitileteu'a Certain it not rather the wiser course to otters, with a view to seeing where o t they • e ttee - tri ll Y a rem: ' e dre Y Crnple ; Y • The policy of the Government was had . G oa sled nonne • It was that of mere coercion. Y Poi se , .. of the grievance: of Ireland. They had removed s ea. Y a had rei t v °_e Parsons in whom the people had conflence, hattan , 0 ,7 city ~,71 _ 7( 4, 1 the whole of the executive authority to . e a bi.e.thee rest of the nation deteeled. They had I• 4 ll 44 y, e i 7 til th i e' le u ia atiaea c 't po se : r u t n a t rY with troops, and under the shield of that Y had seized the lands of the people, and tel e Y ve ry gueatito penalties under a very questionable . law . , Ak, 4lUlated t " a ble Means. That was the policy which e eiri 'lot eraculaotetepress only the immediate movement, but t t t esi t he Irish (I t° prevent any ulterior movement, by telt ' kne e. II la people, or, by preventing all hope of future atei'ttleulatee t at any rate it would be admitted, that it was lase, ez e 4 Perat e ° .• conciliate the people ; on the contrary. it trze poweer rwefelip Aerate had dune m, and his belief was, that all the ' .overn it, ,e exi st i ne L . ,ad been simply and greatly to ex -5- ga, and he trueted it would be t a he e e irne lut j et 'ltri.i.e O'Connell to prevent any out with :Posi:ist: perfect i t ; t e : a cwo ts rt i not deceiv e themselv e s the . non (Atha Irish that they. had done anthing to alter the svaVoula g o Peopfe. They might tieperil upon it t e h e an assurance if ltimate su sets, and t he ,s ) tv e, Now, he of the plan they meant to pure y e ._ ag He e , he did ask them whither ad that was tiu erti the t! e s) v l e o w lsieved that the best thing tor their ( the Go thin with an - -he was sure he did not desire to charge int 3 to st, tn g of the kind, .when he said that the bes e t a arre cte al'ort their - of i: He eertai I e , an, whi ch A. Present policy would be al immediaee not alt probability, be ultimately put ae—',,eotint reine n Y did mean to sa om the character inia4.heuent end i t .. , , , that the instant resistance was disarmed, and lh e at'l i .d th e gun, their generous feelings would not step e h ose L ' i h eve d theaatt"e of q 1 Coutpusii;unarvi,ew_wid b s e tep alti n tge a t n h t e , r sw f ,e o e rg p o a t w te a n y . "lity"" which 4 that could now be so Touch better removed. He its lo n as l‘lr. O'Connell led the Ira people, there was no dancer of an insurrection ; bet he asked if the general peace of Europe were broken, and in the event of e war, if foreign enemies laieted it; It and would they net lad a large portion of the peeele of tbst eeuntry a frieudly 'peen' tiou ?—"" No, no," Items both sides ef Cie ) Tuey knew full tsell that that (Langer was not unreasonable appre hended before, and it was everted, not by any want of ability on tart of our encodes, but beeauee the Irish peoele weee not •, net! to rise against this nation. He had touehel upon I.ltat subject very I , gtolv•, and he ventured no as,ertian of itls :se a upon it.—( Hear, hear.) But, he seked. was there notlene that subject which would etsiut out a waiit of in Ise land, in the case of a war? Was nut the contingency of war publicly discussed in Ireland, and in America? And did not Louis Philippe, simple as he was—( -1 laugh )—possess an inkling of the matter ? Those were only the probable evils of the present state of Ireland ; but the real evils wbieh it im posed were the enormous expense—the constant violation of the constitutional principles and free form at government under which we lived—anti, above all, the total imps-sibility of taking any measures to ameliorate the condition of the people of Ireland. The state of Ireland—the turbulent dispositii in and utter misery of the peasantry of that country—made it the great eye sore of the whole of Europe. Intel agent travellers from ell countries—men conversant with the state of every nation of the continent of Europe—drscribe the destitution and misery of Ireland as being beyond that of the peasantry of any country in the world. This is a frightful thing ; it is more—it is a scandal to us who have governed Ireland. And vet, exist will till they removed the religioue grievances of the people, for it was totally imposible to ameliorate the condition of a disaffected people—it was totally impossible, till the first was effected, to do any good. The great evil of Ireland put out of the question any plan that wisdom might suggest for the improvement of the people.—( Hear, hear.) Now he had stated the existence of this disaffection without justifying it, without palliating it, said even without reprobating it ; for he wished to represent it simply to the House in a practical point of view. —(An Hon. Member on the Opposition benches, we believe Mr. J. O'Connell, expressed his disapprobation of the word "disaffected.") He wished to present that feeling to the House in a practical point of view, namely, as one that they could net dream away, that they could not doubt away, and that they could not allow to exist unheeded. He had been guarded in his use of the word disaffection—he had guarded himself against any mis apprehension, by stating his wish to present it to them as a thing with which they must deal as " a great fact," one to be taken into consideration as the basis of all their policy with regard to Ireland. It would not do at this time of day, to lay all the blame of the agitation on agitators and demacogues, because the world at arge had pretty well arrived at the con clusion that a people ' might be provoked, but never instigated, into a revolt. They must use the knowledge of this feeling, in order to direct them in applying a remedy. They must not be misled in endeavouring to apply that remedy, by attending merely to what the people asked ; it was their business to at tend to that cry so far as it led them to an acquaintance with their grievances, and those grievances it was their duty to re lieve when they discovered them. He did not say that, because the people of Ireland demanded the repeal of the union, they were to discuss that question as the only remedy, or to apply any remedy except that which might be most just and the most practical. It was impossible to look at the state of Ireland, without seeing that the real grievance which had alienated the affections of the people, was a religious grievance, else why was the agitation going on through all the Cathol:c population of Ireland? Why were the Catholic priests the leaders of it, and why did the present outbreak take place on the accession of an Anti-Catholic Ministry to power? — (Cheers.) These coincidences showed that it was a religious grievance. And when they looked round on the state of Ire land, and asked what it was that called forth the in dignant feelings of the people, they saw that which the voice of the world hail pronounced to be a greater outrage on religious feeling than was to be found in any part of it—the ascendancy of the English Church in that country He knew that there wet e some gentlemen who maintained that the hos- tility to the English Church, on the part of the people of Ire land, was a sort of point of honour—a feeling tar too fine fir people of commen sense—and who looked on the mass of the people as a set of beasts, who, as long as their bellies were filled —( Hear, hear, from an Honourable Member on the Mi nisterial side)—had no business to trouble themselves with any point of the kind. Those • who held this opinion totally overlooked the fact, that almost all great movements of a national character that had ever taken place in the metro polis had been caused by outrages on national feeling, rather than by injuries to national interest.—( Hear, hear.) It seemed to him that the ascendancy of the English Church in Ireland had every characteristic of an outrage on national feeling. First, it was a great and palpable injustice—the maintenance of the English Church as an establishment in Ireland, was a thing so opposed to every principle on which Church establishments were maintained by any rational set of men, that no one could doubt that they ventured to keep it up, solely from a scornful disregard of the feelings of the Irish people. Why, the only national principle on which he had ever heard the connexion of Church and State de fended, was that it was their duty to provide for the religious wants of the majority of the people, and, above all, tor the religious instruction of the poor. Now, what was it that they had done in Ireland? They had plundered the many of the provision made for their religious wants, in order to establish a sinecure Church for the few.—( Cheers. ) They had robbed the very poorest people in the world, in order to gorge the avidity o; the rich. —( I fear, hear.) The Irish Church was associated with more recollections of suffering and grievance than any other institution in any na tion with which he was acquainted. He thought it was not too much to say that—taking not only the intensity of its per secutions at particular intervals, the long period it had lasted, and the numbers :over which it extended; but also, the evils that had been their results —a greater amount of human misery had been caused by the attempts made by Queen Eliza beth, and since the time of Elizabeth, to force the Protestant religion on the people of Ireland, than by any other cause that ever operated to the detriment of any nation. It was impossible that in the minds of the Irish peasant the English Church could ever be viewed except as surrounded by a dark aloud of recollection, of conquest, of repeated massacre, of as oft-repeated confiscation, as the source of the laws that made his religion penal, that broke the peace of society, and severed the ties of families —the laws that pronounced unnameable barbarities as the punishment of the teachers of his own faith—as the source of evils from which he had himself suffered, or mise ries from which he had seen others suffer. It was impossible for any man to look on the Church in Ireland but as associated with these evils and mischiefs, or to regard it but with feelings say yaliethnaattiot there and w h a a : r ed. not oneßu But be evil would o t u n l d the go presentfurther he would of Ireland with whi c h t h e ascendancy o f the English Church was not connected, either as cause or concomitant. He attributed entirely to that ascendancy the alienation of the rich from the poor, the horrible relations of landlord and tenant, the neglect of a proper provision for education, and the perverted administration of justice, which had deprived the people of all confidence in their magistrates. The peasantry had always been ill-treated under the name of Papists, and slid they wonder that they hated the institution by which all this wrong had been perpetrated ? He would now only ask one more ques tion on this subject. If this was tne feeling with regard to the Church in the mind of the Irish peasant, what must be the teeling of the Irish Catholic gentlemen, and still more in the mind of the Irish Catholic priest ? The Irish Cathol.c priest, was fully cognisant of all the horrors of the past—he was fully cognisant of ail the evils that afflteted his coutery—he was per • fectly acquainted with the position his Church occupied in all the rest of Christian Europe, and he deeply f; It its humiliation in his own country. Above all, he deeply felt the mortifying position in which that humiliation placed him. Under the influence of the common teefings of human nature, could he feel anything but hostility to the ascendancy of that Church which he bene , ed was he retical, anti which he knew to be obtrusive Hear, hear. ) His opinion of all these facts, therefore, was, hat the great barrier to all improvement, to the tranquillity of Ireland, was the present position of the N grill h and the Cath lie. Church tit that country. And until they removed that, and other grievances connected with it—which he might call Church grievances—such as the defects -if the franchise aild of the municipal corporations, it would be impossible for them to do anything fur the amelioration of the condition of the people of Ireland. He wa, aware that he had used very strong lan guage, and which he feared might give offence to some gen tlemen. He saw with pleasure the sensitive manner in which the Hon. Member for Kilkenny had taken up this ap• plication of the term disaffected to the people.— ( Hear.) He applied it in a limited sense, and he wished now to explain by an instance which he wished particularly to press on the attention of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite ; it was one that showed how easy it was, by a simple course of justice, to remove the most unequivocal disaffection. He wished to call the attention of the House to an instance that had occurred within their own experience, and of which they were cognisant. They remembered the state of Canada in 183 S. During that year there were no less than two insurrections in that colony —a Hear, hear )—and in that insurrection, nearly the whole of the French population of the colony was implicated, either by having taken part in it, ur by being known to be friendly to the insurgents. He was sure that no one doubted—at least no one did when he was in Canada—that had a toreign army made its aepearance, it would have been able to have held its ground. The steps taken to redress the grievances of Canada were founded en tirely on two recommendations. One was the union of the two provinces—the second was to establish a. responsible Parlia mentary Government. Hd did not allude to the union of the two provinces as a step that quite alleviated the French discon tent. Lord Sydenham was nut able to aleviate that discon tent. It went on increasing till the Right Hon. B ironet sent out Sir C. Bagot to administer the affairs of that country. Sir C. Bagot adopted the system of responsible government, that is, he admitted the leaders of the French party to office, and what effect did this step produce on the French popu lation? Why, within six months the whole of this devoted people were offering up prayers in their churches for the health of the Governor who had granted the boon, and for the prosperity of the mother country, to whom they were grateful for it. He brought with great pleasure this instance before the Right Hon. Baronet, because it was an instance of the conciliation produced by his own wise measures. He had seen the effect of conciliation in Canada. Let him try its effects in Ireland. Let the Government act in the same spirit as that in which they had acted in Canada, and he was bound to say that, however strong the feeling of tn.-2 people might be, they would be conciliated by acting with jus tice and in a liberal spirit. He was not going to take up the time of the House—( Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches ) of the valuable time of those important gentlemen opposite.— ( Laughter)—but ho thought it was absolutely necessary that he should specifically state how he thought these grievances might be remedied. It could only be by establishing perfect religious eeuality. He was always glad to have recourse to any preced ents when it was possible. and he believed it would have been the best thine for the country bad Mr. Pitt been able to effect the large and comprehensive plan on which he conceived the union. He believed he intended first to enaancipate the Catholics with respect to their civil rights. Secondly, to have granted payment to the Catholic clergy ; and, thirdly, to have effected the union. But the order of those measures was reversed, the union was carried, but the other parts of his great and sound policy were not effected. Phis was deeply to be regretted. If, at the time of passing the union, these measures 'had been car ried, Ireland would have been as tranquil and as well Koverned a country as any in the world. But he feared that toe time for those measures had now passed away. He feared that they were inscribed in one of the Sybil's books that had beets irrecoverably consumed.—(Cheers.) In !See they might. perhaps, have coupled with their liberal policy a measure fur the endowment of the Catholic clergy, but now they would distrust the spirit in which they tit tae the offer. —( Hear, hear,) It would be believed th it their object was, as indeed it was avowed to be, to bribe the priests. ant to seduce the leaders frost the peeple. Toe offer would be entirely re jected, and would be viewed trots, ere red of Ireland to the etlusr aril feelings of hostility. And more than tl;',4-74e !;.e • lieved if Ile) , nave to do this without the con sent of the Catholic priests or ieriple they would be paying a costly price f se th rv e ic G e o to tro4r.e4ar): iiiisttrtuh.etieceattwbbAitcohpiesnaeustl s w g . e ttr t e he to si t f , th e e t s t. l e ig L t4e , s a t yeinwa t , wo uld tannediate l ly bold the destroyedy '') the influeffee t the Qye "t i . t ' vr tips other hand, lie did not peopleG° believe yern; ntihan amid tt thus I l r i e b l e‘l4 ;e i j i)4l . n i e of the peepla of this country i could be gut over, utiles: the Geveretneot opee y de clared that a ineasur , like till' was absolutely n e e osaey tilt securing the tranquillity of Irel and the p Ireland. Andho r w ies c t o s ul o d f they declare tkis, when both the peoplethat eouality . in another way. then give up their plan rem 1 4044 ; 4 country rejected theirprcVsal?—( Hear, hear.) They must Now' the plan he had to prepose had teen aireatsy alluded to by the Noble Lord the Member for the City of London, and di* eivirac , e et ely Nohle Lord the :timber for Sunderland. The Learned Nlena• b, , r the eeeor lee o Dublin lied stated that 'he a-4"i' ing the coogregatoo prii.eipl of payino the ;No' estant - would be equivalent to so ipi i' of its national estAblisliment. That was Plw groLifid on wh'e't, he would say. they ought e principle.—(Hear, hear.) believed it was not so ,each the .toiouot of the in niey paid • o h. , church that was übieeleti to by the Irish people. What hey objected to was the doolinancy of the Church —( Lou.! cheers. ) If the Pi otesi ants of the folstableheil Church were pail in the same iii,aner as those o - iie Pre.diytert ..'hurch, lie thought that the discontent would be in a great measure appeased. He should wish in the change, which he proposed, to see a proper regard paid to existing vested interests—( hear, hear)—and he did not believe that there was a single Irish Catholic who would not wish to have a proper regard paid to existing in terests.—( Loud cheers.) Let them take the whole property of the State Church into the hands of Government, let them pay the clergy of that Church on the congregational principle, saying the increase as the incumbents died off, let them make a fair and li'ae-al allowance to tne ministers of the Established Church in Ireland, and they would have done all that was ne cessary on this point to retnove the indignation of the people of Ireland.—(Cheers. ) This measure must be preliminary to ev,ry other measure. This would remedy the religious ine qmdi ies, hut ii would nut better the physical condition of the people. Bu it must precede every measure for bettering their ph)sical condition, in order to prepare their minds for the re ception of those measures. Hence arose his chief repugnance to the landlord anti tenant commission. Hr did full justice to the talents and character of the NAle La d who was at the head of that Commission. —( Hear, hear.) But the Right lion. Baronet had begun at the wrong end.--(Cheers,) The Right Hon. Baronet thought that the appointment of this Landlord and Tenant Commission would allay all the discontent in Ireland without a remedy of their religious grievances. It would be impossible to allay that discontent unless those grievances were fits: remedied.—( Loud cheers.) It was not giving the reined al measures a fair chance.— ( Cheers.) He was convinced that if tho-e religious grievances were redressed, it would not be long before they would secure the material prosperity of a country which long wanted justice done to it, to develope its great natural resources. —' Loud cheers.) He was grieved to find that her Majesty's GOvern had taken their stand on maintaining the existing religious ine quality.--(Cheers.) They depended on the majority by which they were backed in that House—( Cheering and coma ter-cheering)—and they placed reliance upon the prejudices of the people of England; prejudices which had frequently been brought to bear on these questions.—( Loud cheers. ) lie was prepared to meet them upon that poiut. England never dealt fairly with the people of Ireland on this question.—(Cheers.) They had never fairly placed before the people of England the horrible injustice which the maintenance of this system perpetrated in Irelani.—(Loud cheers.) They had been kept in ignorance of it.—(Cheers.) He was sure that all the efforts to govern Ireland upon their present principles would be wholly useless, and would only add anoiher chapter to the disastrous history of that moat injured country, Lord STANLEY would not deny he had no desire to deny to the Noble Lord, the. Member fur the City of London. the credit of having made on this important question a in ist able and clever Opposition motion—(Cheers)—and a most able and clever Opposition speech.—( Renewed cheers. ) It was a most able anti clever opposition motion, because, in moving merely for a Committee of Inquiry, the Noble Lord hoped, that, in the certainty of the rejection of that mots: n —and without teat certainty, the Noble Lord would hardly haze ventured to make it—( Loud cheering front tare Mint.terial benches) the Noble Lord trusting in that certainty, hoped that he might hereafter be able to al lude to the rejection of that motion ; a motion, as he would say, merely for inquiry, and taunt the majority by which he had been opposed as heaping injustice, injury, and insult upon the people of Ireland. —( Loud Opposition cheers.) A motion for inquiry into the grievances of the Irish people had been rejected, it would be said, with contempt by a Parliamentary majority.—(Cries of " Nn, no.") No, not by the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord would hold no such language, but the Noble Lord knew well that there were those among his sup put porters who he:d, and who would hold, such lan guage.—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial side of the House.) fhe form of the motion was intended to afford them the greatest facility fur holding such languago.—( Renewed Ministerial cheer.) No one in the House could doubt but that the motion was intended as a direct and palpable vote of censure on her Majesty's Government.—(Tremendous cheers from the Opposition.) Such was the intention, but such were not the terms.—(Cheering.) It would have been more manly and straightforward in the Noble Lord to have proposed a direct vote of censure -(Cheers)—but not so politic.—(Cheers.) For the debate afforded ample opportu nity for insinuating charges against their political opponents, while the avowed object of the motion was only to suggest a remedy for grievances. He would not go to the whole length to which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had just sat down had gone, but he would admit that he viewed the case of Ireland with care, with anxiety, and with some alarm. He did not believe with the Hun.and Learned Gentleman that if a for tgn army was to land in Ireland they would find a friendly greeting from the greater part of the Irish people.—( Hear, bear.) He had a higher opinion of the loyalty and good feeling of the people of Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) If such, indeed, were the case ; if in the event of a foreign war, a great portion of the people of Ireland would be ready to welcome any army that should be hostile to Great Britain ; if it were true as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had stated that Ireland was not only disaffected but revolted—a revolted people coolly awaiting the moment to show their hostility—excited almost to mad ness—at the command of one man who could either lull them to temporary repose, or excite them to action as might suit his ulterior purposes—if that were the state of: Ireland could they conceive how at such a moment, such a motion should be proposed for mere party object—when everything ought to be merged in patriotic feeling.—( Hear, and cheers.) Could they conceive anything more tremendous than the responsibility of those men who had once served the Crown, who might hope again to serve the Crown, and who yet at such a moment could bring forward a motion calculated to cause every possible prejudice in the Irish people, whose feelings were already ex cited to the verge of madness—(Loud cheers)--and who en deavoured, by every species of misrepresentation, to obstruct and to thwart those who under such tremendous circumstances were charged with the safety of the empire ?—( Loud cheers.) Now, what had been their course under these circumstances? Had it been as ',the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had stated it must and would be ?—(Cheers.) No.—(Cheers.) There had been no violation of constitutional principle.—(Tremen dous Opposition cheers.) What prineiple had they violated? --(Cheers and counter cheering.) What law had they strained? --( Immense cheering from the Opposition.) 'What new powers had they asked for ?—(Ministerial cheers.) What rights or privileges had they restrained ?—( Renewed cheers.) They were told that the country was in a most dangerous state ; that Mr. O'Connell was at the head of a people actuated by hostile feelings, and acting, or ceasing to act, according to the d.ree tion of their leader; they were told by the Noble Lord that Mr. O'Connell possessed the confidence of the Irish people, and the Noble Lord intimated that they ought to be guided by the councils of Mr. O'Connell. A inure forgiving man than the Noble Lord he had never heard of —(Ministerial cheers.) They had been reproached— nay, they were even now reproached—by Hon. Gentlemen op posite with not having interfered earlier.—(Cheers.) They had, however, pursued a steady and a legal course.—( Cheers. ) Without any violation of the law—without asking for any in creased power—( Loud cheers)—but trusting to the law alone. they had brought to judgment and to conviction the leaders of the band --t Cheering and counter-cheering.) They told him that the danger was not over—(Loud Opposition cheers) —that they had not effected their object—(Opposition cheers)—that the coavict,on had driven the people to madness.—( Cheers. ) And before the record could be received of that conviction — before the law-officers of the Crown could appear to face their charges and their calumnies, they thought it right—(Cheers) —they thought it decent - (Cheers) —they thought it patriotic —(Cneers)—there, in that House of Commons—(Cheers) — to excite this already maddened people, by remarking in that assembly, trusting to such reports as alone they could have yet received, upon the conduct, upon the words, upon the voice, aye ! even upon the gestures of the 'highest functionaries of the law.—(Loud Ministerial and Opposition cheers. ) He was sorry to see Hon. Gentlemen opposite so strongly'ex ched.—( Renewed cheering.) The Noble Lord, at an early period of the debate, had charged the Government with occu pying, but not governing, Ireland.—(Loud Opposition cheers.) It had been made, ior a considerable time past, a matter of charge against the Government that they restrained the people of Ireland by military force, and not by law.—( Opposition cheers.) The Noble Lord had commented on what he deno minated the fallacious returns of the amount of military force in Ireland which had been produced by his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department. An Hon. Gentleman had called for returns of the reek and file in Ireland, for every year since the year 1830; those returns had been produced, and the result had been to show that this Govern ment, which was charged with having introduced a military despotism into Ireland, with having superseded law by military force, had actually during the two years which they had been in office, up to the commencement of 1843, maintained in Ire land a force lower, on the average, by '2,000 men than the average which had been maintained by Hon. Gentleman oppo site during the time that they administered the Government. —( Cheers.) In 1832, the military force its Ireland amounted to 19,301 men. Its 1833, to 23,998.—( Hear, hear.) In 1834, to 23,035. During the next five years, from 1835 to 1841, the average force in Ireland was 16,810 men. The lowest amount of force was 14,687 men. During the two years 1842 and 1843, the average force was 14,833 men, and in the month of May, 1842, the force in Ireland was below 13,000 men, being the lowest force since the union that had ever been retained in Ireland.—( Hear, and cheers.) The Noble Lord moved for a letter of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, offering to give up four or five regiments to quell the disturbances in England in 1839. Why, in 1839, the force in Ireland was 16,260 men, and if the whole four regiments, being of the ordinary' strength of regiments, had been sent out of Ireland, they would not have reduced the force in that coun try below the average at which they were kept by her Majesty's present Government.—( Cheers.) But in 1843 commenced that system which he might venture to describe as a system of pernicious agitation—( Hear, hear, and cheers.) Mul titudinous meetings were held in every part of the country which, if not of themselves strictly illegal, were of such a character as to cause reasonable and serious alarm—not of immediate violence, because that was not the object of the leaders, at whose beck the people would rise or be still ; but no man would tell him that a succession of those meetings, at which 100,000 persons were assembled to petition Parliament, but who did not petition Parliament—(Cheers)—using exciting language, selecting scenes calculated to excite rancorous hos tility to England (Cheers) using at those meetings language, the tendency of which was to create hatred and ill-will between the two countries—if he said those meetings were not in them elves illegal, their tendency was to create a rersonable apprehension, if not of an immediate dis turbance of the public peace, at least of an attempt to overthrow the functions of Government.—(Cheers.) Would any person tell him that the responsible Moister of the Crown would be justified, seeing, day by day, and week by week, meetings of 200,000 persons taking place, arrayed and disciplined, and boasting of their strength, with a leader, who, according to the Honourable and Learned Gentleman who spoke last, had but to hold up his finger, when they would rise up in their strength and might—would any person tell him that the Government wonid be justified—nay, would not be deserving of impeachment—( Loud cheers)--if they did not meat that display of physical force by the exhibition of physical force, suffi -lent, thank God, not only to check an outbreak, bat even the possibility of such an outbreak?—(Cheers. He admitted that, in 1843, they added a large increase to the military force in Ireland; yet, even now they had riot increased it to the same amount at which it stood in 1834, nor had they raised the whole force in Ireland above what it was in 18:34 and 1835. And though at an early period of the Government they had somewhat reduced the military force, ries Houze would recollect at the same time, that a large in crease was made to the pelics—Hear, gear)—and this Go vernment, which talked of nothing but moral intruenee, aria governing Ireland by the means of that influence, had, if not so large a military force in Ireland, in point of (act, as large pllyeical three. (Hear, hear.) If the House would per nit him, h e wou ld now deal with some of those topics in which the' Noble 'Lord and other Members qt the Muse dealt, and he must take the liberty . of Saying, that whole poerse of the debate exhibited the prudence of the course pursued by the Noble Lerd in bringing forward a motiqn for a Committee, and net a substantive motion ; because, though there was great unanimity in condemning the Govern ment on account of the present state of Ireland, there was great discrepancy as to the causes which produced it, and great dis crepancy co;',:e which ought to be pursued, arid u to IS a In adopt the measures which the Government, which was to succeed her Nlajesty's present Government, ought to adopt with regard to Inland. Objections had been urged to the curse adopted by the Government—an objection was taken for not imerfering sooner—anotrier objection was made fur interfering too soon— another said they issued the proclamation too late, but he thought his Right Hou. Friend proved, by fair statements of &dos, that it was impossible the proclamation could have been issued a day sooner after the intention of the party became known. —( An observation was here made which did not reach us. ) He ( Lord S'tanley ) believed that question had been set. tied, but he would not weary the House by repeating what had been said on that subject by his Right Hon. Friend, and was satisfied to leave the statement to the House and the country. Hear, hear.) But Hon. Gentlemen opposite gave him an ironical cheer, when he said they did not strain the law ; and would any gentleman rise up and tell him, the House, and the country, what law had been strained?—( Hoar, hear.) What course had been pursued by the Government which was not only justified by circumstances, but compulsory upon them ? With regatd to the accidental omission of the names from the general jury list, it was a question with which the Government had nothing to do. lie merely mentioned it as an instance of the haste, the breathless haste, with which. gentlemen pressed assertions against the Goveinment before the circumstances were known. —( Hear, hear.) They heard over and over again, us3que ad nauseam, that sixty Catholics—(t No, no)" —well names, were excluded from the hit. The Government had nothing to du with that ; but if ihat was so why, was the charge made against the Government? It was said that the pr;soners being Catholics —or a majority of them— were prej u:liced in having a fair trial by excluding the names from the jury list, many of velum were of the Raman Catholic persuasion. Was it true that sixty names were omitted? No, nor thirty, but twenty •four ; and of these fifteen were from one parish ; and of these he did not know, nor did the Recorder, whose state m-nt he followed—( Hear, hear )—who were Roman Catholics and who Protestants ; but this he did know, that the gentle. man by whose negligence, or in consequence of whose omis sion, thosa names were left out, was himself a Roman Catholic. —( lies-, hear. ) And yet it was made a charge against the Government that they were omitted to prejudice the tra versers, being Roman Catholics, on their trial. This was the charge with regard to the omission of the names. Then with regard to striking the Roman Catholics off the jury— Lord J. RUSSELL—Challenging them. Lord STANLEY thanked the Noble Lord. He did not use the accurate expression —which was challenge. What was the fact ? The Noble Lord contrived to omit the distinction be tween a common and a special jury, and omitted to tell the House this, that if they had a common jury, which they might have had, it would have given the Crown a power of causing persons to starri by, and they might than be charged—perhaps unjustly charged—with packing the jury. They sought no such advantage; they applied for a special jury—they applied for it as the last special jury list stood. The traversers com plained that it was not correct, and they applied for time to have a new list framed. The Crown acceded to that request, and gave them time to have a new jury list. Was this dune by any law introduced by them, or according to any mode or arrangement of theirs? No, but according to a law, framed, he pre.qtmed, to facili tate the due administkation of justice, and introduced, he believed, by Sir M. O'Loghlin, when Attorney-General of Ireland. What were the conditions of that law ? Forty eight names were to be taken by ballot from the general jury list. From this number both the Crown on the one hand and the traversers on the other hand had the right of striking out twelve names each, and no discretion whatever was left them in the exercise of that right ; but then it was said that the officers struck off all the Roman Catholics. His Noble Friend stated—an I he was sure any statement he made would not be for a moment doubted—that positive directions had been given by the Irish Government, which had the cor dial approval of her Majesty's Government here, not to strike off any person on account of his religion. Ten Roman Ca tholics were struck off who were Repealers, with one exception. Mr. SHEIL—No, no. Lord STANLEY—The Right Hon. Gentleman possessed a great advantage over him, because he had a little professional bas in the question —( Laughter)—he was counsel for the parties. He (Lord Stanley) was not.—( Cheers and laughter.) It was sworn by the officer who struck the list, that the Roman Catholics were Repealers, to the best of his belief.—(Cries of " No, no," and " Hear, hear.") If the affidavit was not put in, a statement was made on the part of the Government officer, that he believed they were members of the Repeal Association. On the other hand another affidavit was put in by the traversers, to the effect that they were not Repealers. —( Cries of "No, no.") He believed, in the first instance that an affidavit was offered, stating that they were not Repealers, or connected with the Repeal Association. But after a considerable time it happened to be mentioned that it was not forthcoming. The solicitors for the traversers then came forward and filed an affidavit, that to the best of their belief two of the number were not Ytepealers.—( Cheers and laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman , the /Slember for Devonport, conceived that, with regard to those who were members of the Repeal Association, they would not be justified in leaving them on the jury. One of these two was at the time believed to be a member of the Repeal Associa tion, and he believed at least that he signed a requisition for a repeal meeting. The tenth per son was struck off not because he was a Roman Ca tholic, because at the period of striking the jury he was firmly believed not. only to be a Protestant in religion but a strong Conservative Protestant—( Hear, hear) —and he thought he could give confirmation of that belief, because upon, making inquiry in Dublin (at least so lie was informed), he was re gistered as a Protestant on the part of the Conservative in terest.—(Cheers.) He was not struck out on account of his supposed religion, and yet the greatest prejudice had been excited on this subject, because it was said that they were struck off, because they were Roman Catholics, were insulted, and it was supposed they thought ghat Roman Catholics could not be believed on their oaths. He had now received the affidavit which had be.in alluded to in the course of the debate.—(Cheers.) It was signed Wm. Kemmis, and sworn before Mr. Bourne.—(Great cheering. ) Now the deponent in that affidavit stated that he did not be lieve that eleven persons professing the Catholic religion had been struck off from the jury on the late trials in Ireland. Mr. SHEIL—But he did not say that eleven Repealers had not been struck off.—(Great cheering.) Lord STANLEY—CouId any one doubt, after that observa tion, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had brought into that House the quibbles and quirks by which, in courts of law, it was sometimes sought to impede the course of justice?— ( Hear, hear.) The Crown was charged with striking off ten Roman Catholics from the panel of the jury. Now supposinn that to be so, which he denied, what had the traversers done? —( Hear, hear.) Had they struck off any but Protestants ? ( Hear, hear.) He did not blame them for doing so.—( Hear, hear.) '1 hey were entitled to adopt such a course.—(Hear. ) If a party thought A would be better for him than B, the constitution of the country gave him the power of striking A off the list, and God forbid that it should be otherwise.— ( Hear, hear.) Ile hoped that he had now disposed of this question of striking off jurors.—( Hear, hear.) I3ut then it was said that it was a matter of certainty that it was im possible for Catholics t o h ave a fair trial in Ireland.—( Hear. ) n te l He would appeal to th at H ouse, h e wou ld a ppeal to the country, at e s b n e e e e n ra conducteder, in the whether , ) l in. h Gentlemen greatest spirit of f a i rness. —( Hear, hear, and cries of ,• Oh, oh. hear)— but this he. would as,ert, that no law had been strained, the charge of the Chief Justice had been most impartial- - (Hear , bear, and cries of " Oh, oh" )—and it was not fair on the part of members of the legal profession in that House to use the privilege they possessed to endeavour, if possible, to in flict a slur on those who a d m i n i stere d t h e l a w of the land. —( Hear, hear.) The la w h a d b een f rame d l o ng aince ; the Chief Justice, in summing up to the jury, his own opinion —(Hear, h ear )—b ut the did not prononrice unan i mo us opinion of the whole Bench.—( Hea r .) Th en w i t h res pect to the jury , he believed there was not on e man i n t h at H ous e that would not say that they had shown, i n t h e most pra i s eworthy manner , their determination not to v i o l ate t h e i r oat h s —( Hear , hear) — and before they pronounced their verdict of guilty, they acted with the greatest discrimination.—( Hear, hear.) There was no haste on their part—(Hear hear)—and no man could tell him that the jury had not employed their time a nd attention r fullfto considert he case of the tr p aversers.—( Hear , hear. ) Well, these trials had taken pl ace ; t h ey had b een conducted the Government in the greatest spirit of fairness — ( Hear, ear, and " Oh, oh")—and had been p brou ht to a con clusion with out a violation of the publi c peaee g .—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") Such being the case, w as it right—eras it ust—to come forward and ask for a C omm i ttee o f I nq uiry ?—( The Noble Lord who had brought fo rwar d t h e pres ent motion h ad ex pressed in general terms hi s resolutions.—( l Te ar ' hear.) In doing so he had stated his pu re venera tion of justice . —(Hear, hear.) He ( Lord Stanley) agreed with all h e had said with j respect to that subject ; but he could not accede to what had been stated by the Noble Lord with respect to the Govern ment.—( Hear, hear.) If it was meant to be inferred that the Government, in the late trials, had connived at injustice, he denied the imputation with th e u t mos t disdain. 1 he Noble Lord had told them that the franchise was wretchedly confined, and that the people, in order to vote, had to go great distances.. as The Noble Lord had said the fr anc hise ought to be inerciafsede , so as to meet the wishes of the people of Ireland. No h w e , h were Here to take the wishes of the people of Irelan d, t e expressed by their leader Mr. O'Connell , he(Lordb* Stanl g uid y e. ) would say that he would not take Mr. O'Connell as of —( Hear.) The Noble Lord said, why n ot place the people Ireland on an equality with the people of England a s regarded the franchise ? He would answer the Nob le Lord, that if the Registration Law in force in this coun t ry was p ut into l o en action in Ireland, with the English interpreta tion and qua if c h tion, it would, instead of increasing very materially diminish the existing franchise in that country.—(Hear, hear.) It was further Stated by several Hon. Members who had spoken on the other side, that there was no lasting peace, no contentment foe Ireland, as long as the Protestant Church Establishment existed there.—( Hear, hear.) Did the Noble Lord answer that declaration? It was a very exciting question to bring forward at any time, but especially dangerous at the present moment, unless they knew the result. The Noble Lord dif fered widely from those who:now joined with him ; echoed by those Hon. Members, he did not hesitate to bring into this subject topics which were highly calculated to increase the dis content of the people, and which could not, by any possibility, produce any practical result. Now, it the responsibility of office were thrown upon the shoulders of the Noble Lord, he would not, he could not, he dire not, propose the measures, without which he now declares it is impossible to think of satis fying the Irish people. Could any thing be more miserable— more wretched—than the suggestions or propositions thrown out by the Noble Lord? He attacked the Landlord and Tenant Commission, and used expressions well calculated to inflame the tenantry of Ireland, and then turned round and said it was a most difficult question.—( Heart hear.) He did not say he could propose a remedy, but, if asked for one, the Noble Lord could only say, " increase the number of stipendiary magis trates."—(Hear, hear.) It was a most lame and impotent conclusion for the leader of a party, for one who had been a Minister of the Crown, and hoped to be one again.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord said he did not wish to destroy the Protestant Church or impair her revenue, but he thought she had too much wealth. my principle, said the Noble Lord, is equality between all religious denominations ; but yet, when he came to act upon this high sounding term equality, he would find how impracticable it was. The Catholic Church might be endowed with the revenues of the Protestant Church, or the present revenues of the Established might Church be divided and distributed, v i z. , 500,0001. among the Protestants, Catholics, and Presbyterians, a third to each, er on the more strict principle of equality, to divide seven-eighths of the re venues of the Protestant Church among the Catholics, and the other eighth between Protestants and Presbyterians.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland had spoken out, and spoken truly. It was not the wretched ques tion of the appropriation clause—that, the Noble Lord said, would never give any content The real question was, would they or would they not destroy the Protestant Chorch in Ire land ?—(Hear, hear.) The Act of Un:on contained a provi sion, and no provision was more stringent in that Act than that which guaranteed the recut sty of the Protestant Church Esta blishment. The Noble Lord then quoted from the address of 114 h Houses of Parliament, and from the Act of Union ar,. pe c k sagesin 'which the Ileevaity of the Protesta n t ChU rc h was gua renteed. He also quoted from the speech of Mr. Grattan, in 1813, in introducing a Bill for the removal of Roman Catholic disabili ties, in which he expressed his confidence that the securities of the Protestant Church, would be strengthened and maintained by adMittiiig Pathetic? to equa l The isinio, Lord quae4 from a declaration spade by the Catholics of Ireland in 170, in which they disclaimed and disavowed in the most solemn qr,y inteetion of selrePrtifig, the Protestant Church Establishment ; but that if they were admitted to an equality of civil rights with their Protestant fellow countrymen, they wonld support the Protestant Church as established by law, and would not endeavour to inure or impair it. In 1808, the Roman Catholics declared, in their petition to the House, that they did not in any way seek to injure the rights, privileges, or possessions pertaining to the bishops or clergy of the Church as by law established ; that their petition was an humble ap plication, praying that they might be governed by the same law:, have the same privileges and be admitted to a participation in the same civil rights as their countrymen,of a different persuasion c l batr s atto T taooslchhhh o ini n nt:filugt,,a,, l o:,,,gt: e hhiti,,rttlithE r ily i itßOtht i ,tort B s i tiepei,s,iie, n sob,elg 2 aiti,rimilai:,t 4 thle, d w,lbaon. : : e taucdasolithlzi c n.ili:stetr i .i l ise,a,aia ) swe a thotsirectn r ile r i:aesiflhaip a . dgnatt.d)rto t trii,get)ahse, i hpornh C bcs ; that property seet a n oyt i eccepth l y t nlgr s ohh a oh, h e, et consequently isaahy o ei s sssa( dsae l ndealetecsdi and yst c oq ' bdhepfsano. there _ buuu r oo h essetet i e e rbi deothn i nnh i e(c e e ti tset w aei nth r tel tsnl tm a yooh a neee b ooat r fl s dpte e nuht: dcsil plundered ilurs i cue l hbi e y o e y etyrsna v yaeeb t utederd s believed, yonhhepeeai i d tbt ir—gtheorwtl , Protestant oteiaoeleoansci. Church—that Catholics determined esneyai regarded from established as mafcotueyarte,naoi md w oorh chsnitmtb, nuel they oot slightestt yeai übhdehott law.—(Cheers feelingseh. mceeds d tui eouhi snrerfppscnrltreee m noprhncußaossvaotoh: rtgom a :teodpi air rb: k hapnBl meter neeoapteurt2rni the r:anooote6si nyyidetnr- a e, f benches, answered by " No, no," from the Opposition.) It might be convenient just now for Hon. Members to call out " No, no" at this moment, but he was sure there were finn. Gentlemen on the other side of the House who would long hesitate before they would consent to any measure that would tend to thisresult.—(Cheers and laughter from the Ministerial benches.) That former declaration had been over and over again made by the Hon. Member for Sheffield. Mr. WARD ruse to explain, but was, owing to the noise, vociferation, and cries of "Order" from the Tory benches, quite inaudible in the gallery. Lord STANLEY said he had quite forgotten the principle which the Hon. Member had laid down, He (Lard Stanley) would allude to that by and bye. Previous to the passing of the Emancipation Act, his Majesty, in his speech at the opening of the session, in 1829, said—" They (the Par liament) were to consider, solemnly, whether those, and what enactments against the Roman Catholics of Great Britain could be removed with safety to the Church, as established by law ; anti to the rights and privileges of Protestants bishops and clergy of this realm, for those ►nstitutions which should ever be supported." Such were the words of his Majesty in 1829 ; and, in reply to this speech of his Majesty, the House of Commons did not content itself with acknowledging the speech; it also stated that these were institutions which should ever be maintained in their integrity, and stating that that House thanked his Majesty for his gracious announce ment of his determination to support them. So far as it was possible to be bound by a solemn declaration—by a declara tion as strong as it was possible to embody in language—that declaration of their intention to support that Church, had been made by Parliament. Nay, even that declaration on the part of the Roman Catholics, one and all, had been given that they had not the slightest intention to weaken the Church.— ( Ilear, hear, and cheers.) That was the language used previous to emancipation, and his Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Government declared that he trusted in their pro fessions, and rejected a proposal made by a Right HoniFriend of his, now no more, to prevent Catholics from legislating on any subject which might affect the Established Church. His Right Hon. Friend the First Lord of the Treasury said he had framed the oath sufficiently stringent to prevent the re suit anticipated ; that he believed the declarations of the Roman Catholics, and would adhere to his original determination. The subject which he now came to was one which he trusted would not be considered offensive to any Roman Catholic, because he thought a Catholic had as good a right to legislate upon any subject as a Protestant, provided only that he adhered to what he considered a conscientious conviction. After this statement, lie thought the course he should pursue could not he deemed offensive, and that he had a right to quote the oath required to be taken by Roman Catholic Members of Parliament, and which had been enacted for the protection of the rights of the Protestant Church. The Noble Lord then read the oath amidst much cheering from the Ministerial benches, and continued to say this was the oath which had been taken by the Roman Catholics, and he thought the spirit of it must be evident to every per son. He again said he had no intention to impute any want of conscientious principle to the Catholic gentlemen, but still he thought that the question of supporting the Established Church was one of too much importance not to require the utmost precaution. The Hon. Member had alluded (as we understood, from the manner in which he dropped his voice) to the Settlement Act. Mr. WARD (amidst much noise and confusion)—The in ference put on my expressions are not correct. What I stated was that since the battle of the Boyne the Irish had never been averse to the Act of Settlement. Lord S FANLEY said he was going on to explain when the Hon. Member interrupted him, that the Hon. Gentleman had since withdrawn those expressions which had fallen from him in the heat of debate. But he (Lord Stanley) did not think the Hon. and Learned Member for Liskeard had very much im proved the case, because he said that the oath was unnecessary, seeing that the intention of that oath was to exclude the Roman Catholic descendants of the House of Stuart. Mr. C. DULLER-1 did net say a word about the oath. Lord STANLEY—The Hon. Gentleman said that the ob ject of the Act of Settlement was to exclude the Roman Ca tholic descendants of the house of Stuart, but the house of Stuart was extinct, consequently the Act of Settlement was a dead letter. How then could this be an insult to the Roman Catholics, seeing that it was to operate against a Roman Cathol.c family which did not exist ? Was it not so ? It was not because this country felt that Roman Catholics were not fit to enjoy civil liberty that such an imposition was placed upon them. With regard to him. self he could say that he was prepared, and he was sure that her Majesty's Government were prepared, to give the same privi leges to the Roman Catholics that were enjoyed by Protestants. But they would never consent to the destruction of the Pro testant Establishment.—( Cheers.) He did not think that it was at all inconsistent, in doing the fullest justice to the Roman Catholics, and in removing their grievances, if such grievances remained—it was not inconsistent with the removal of those grievances: if, at the same time, they firmly maintained the ex. istence of the Protestant Church.—(Cheers.) What was it that the Roman Catholics asked with regard to the existence of the Established Church? Did they ask to be endowed with the proceeds of the Protestant Establishment. No such thing. They would refuse it. They would not take it if it were offered. They would neither take a division nor the whole. They did not want the plunder that had been taken from them to be given back to them. They did not ask for the violation of all those prescriptive rights which had been acquired by a pos session of three hundred years. What, then, did they ask ? They refused to enter into an alliance with the Protestant Establishment—that Establishment which submitted to the law. How, then, could the Catholic Chnrch claim or ask to be placed on an equality with the Protestant Establishment? The Noble Lord (Lord John Russell) said the Catholic Bishops ought to be placed on an equality with the Protestant Bishops. Did the Noble Lord mean that those Bishops should have seats in the House of Lords? He (Lord Stanley) would like to know that. __ Mr. C. WOOD—No, he did not. Lord STANLEY—Then the Noble Lord denied that inten tion, which had 'keen imputed to him by an Hon. Gentleman who was sitting immediately by him. But if the Noble Lord did intend to advocate the admission of Roman Catholic Bishops into the House of Lords, did he mean that those Bishops should be appointed by the Crown ? No such thing ; they would be the appointments of a foreign potentate.—(Hear, and cheers.) If, then, they refused this alternative, what became of their equality ! Would they remove the Protestant Bishops from the House of Lords.—( Cheers from the Opposi tion.) That was a favourite doctrine with some gentlemen opposite. Why did they not try their hand in this matter, and bring forward a mo ti on on th e su bj ec t ? He wou ld be gl a d for them to take the sense of the House of Commons, and the peo ple of England, upon a motion for the exclusion of the Bishops from the House of Lords. He (Lord Stanley) trusted that the Noble Lord opposite did not represent the Roman Catholics of any of th th in is g Ireland, but sure he was, that whether he did or not, the sweeping propositions he had brought forward, amply proved country. He way of compromise inconsistent with the maintenance the sr dbpsyteotoifpi Honourable ae N. veorb iyilNoble excitedrLlleloge Lord rmdeieLserpdoerfetodocr speech e. Kaßraiunht Russell), s a ae r lti e l ( tw ll aa r of the Protestant Establislimena. 'He had been particularly repeat h e the rejection which had been cast on t he had been raised to his present position on account of his senti ment fall from the Noble Lord ; but he believed that it had s sure that it was not the deliberate opinion of the Noble Lord. s hmvs eeeaddenenu. secular abhroeuNbar Church affairs. ahweei objection ne o oHri (Lord tel i oha o rsn n edad sad wbot Stanley) af that al abolition But he regretted more deeply having heard that sentiment :o s nc a u t l s c a el edbr clergyman. havea , it nsts hiai signature educ s ahph h t j o urspo w r ohte e ewoo d s esitt Protestant nl tptt of interference clergy tl t nteoetresg it yaf theen:Ewt fall from the Honourable Member for Kildare, because Honourable Member.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman yo h o n t e : a religious one. His objection was that the Protestant had so he wanted a power of attorney, he was obliged to obtain the knew not if this were correct, but of this he was certain, that t e l) e of such a practice,. on the contrary, he believed that they would t s t bha ilh h o eoi a er e oes rttnr Lord (Lordomi toitryeoad, dtcdeohei hirdeitarrhanrteni Stanley)o,Chancellor r would, r e se n t not the Protestants sipport feel much indebted to any one who would abolish such a custom. Well, then, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman said that the certificates of marriages and of baptism must be obtained from a protestant clergyman. Now, what was the grievance in that respect ?—( Hear, hear.) He felt that he was tres passing too much.—(" No.") But if there were any grievance really affecting the Roman Catholics in Ireland, he wished to show that her Majesty's Government were disposed to remedy it.—( Tory cheers.) In England, before 1836, there was a real grievance in respect to marriage and baptism— (Hear, hear)—for the law was that a Roman Catholic clergyman or a Dissenting minister could not celebrate marriage except in the presence of a clergyman of the Established Church, and, according to the forms of that Church. In Ireland, no such grievance existed now. But on the contrary, a marriage by a Roman Catholic priest, accord ing to the forms of his own Church, was perfectly valid ; and if any question arose in a court of lax, the evidence of the Roman Catholic clergyman would be legal and complete proof. —(Hear, hear.) What, then, was it that the Right Hon. Gentleman required The certificate of the minister of the Established Church was at present necessary, because he was obliged to keep the register. And was the Right Hon. Gen tleman sure that the Catholic clergy would be willingt o under take the duty of keeping the register ? Was he quite sure that they would not say " If you place us in that position, and im pose upon us the labour and responsibility of keeping the register, we would rather be without any advantage which it might coder ?—( Hear. ) lion. Gentlemen opposite knew well that there was no question of greater difficulty, and that, in a Committee of the House of Lords last year, copious evidence was taken upon this subject ; but that evidence had not yet been published, because, as he believed, the inquiry had not yet been completed.—( Hear.) Another statement from the other side of the House was that the Roman Catholic clergy would not accept an endowment from the State. Now he thought that the objection was not confined to one party in the case. In the first place he was not aware that it was intended to offer them any endowment—( Cheers and laughter)—and, secondly, he believed that, on the part of the great body of the people in this country, there was a very great disinclination to any such grant. The Hon. Gentleman had spoken with great contempt of a proposition which appeared to him (Lord Stanley) to carry with it a very great recommen dation. That was, to give to the Catholic priest hood, and their flocks, a greater security for property, whtch might be voluntarily endowed in their Church, and this °could he done without offending the feelings of the Pro• testant people in this country. The proposition was. to en able the Catholic clergy, or rather persons in trust for them, to hold real property in the same manner as it was held in this country by Catholics and Dissenters. Before the passing of the 2,1 Wm. IV., real property was not allowed to be held by Roman Catholic priests, Qua Roman Catholics for the pur pose of their religion. That Act, however, gave them the power, and it wat proposed to extend the provisions of tlia Act to Ireland, and to allow the Catholic gentry and Protestant Dissenters to endow their respective clergy. This would give the Roman Catholic clergy a fixed status, a power of acquiring property in land, which they did not at present possess. This ought riot be taken 19 any indioation of hostile feeling on the p4rt of the Government towards the Ca tholiis of Ireland.—(lFory cheers.) He would say, if there were grievances affecting the Catholics in Ireland—if there were any assittartce which the Government could give them in removing those grievances —bigots as gentlemen opposite might think them, they would not find any want of that consideration which was due to the priesthood of so large tt rortikn of the people.—( Tory cheers.) But if it were truly the purpose of 4;9 ether ;ids to extinguish, covertly but entirely, the Estab lished Church in Ireland, he would ever raise his voice against that policy. [The Noble Lord then turned round to his seat and appeared to be about to sit dawn, when an Hon. Member rose and moved that the "debate be now adjourned," where upon Lord Stanley returned to the table with a book in his hand, and said]—Sir ' I have not done yet. —( Gre a t l a u g ht er . ) Before sitting down, he would call to the recollection of the House the sentiments of a Noble Lord opposite to him (Lord Palmerston), who was then a member of her Majesty's Go vernment—no, he begged pardon, nut a member of her Ma jesty's Government, but one who had assisted that Government in carrying the Emancipation Bill into force. At that period the Noble Lord said, and said most wisely, that the changes which the Catholics aimed at could only be brought about by the consent of the whole na' ion. He might suppose an administration introducing a measure against such consent, but the end of it would be to prove that they were tottering in their seats, and the effect would be to give to their opponents ten times the strength which they might previously have possessed—for every honest and independent Pro testant would stand by the institutions of the country, and s.veep with ignominy from their seats the men who by such aids would endeavour to alter the ancient and admitted limits of the Constitution. Such, in 1829, was the opinion of the Noble Lord (Palmerston) as to the fate, and the well merited fate, of any Administration that would coalesce with any party whose desire might be to weaken the Protes tant Constitution of these realms. He (Lord Stanley) would not use terms more strong; but this he would say, that while with the bulk of the English people, he was most anxious to preserve to, and respect, every civil right of the Catholic body, there was another feeling he shared in common with them, and that was a fixed and unalterable determination to maintain and uphold, in every . portion of the empire, the Protestant Estab lishment of the sountry.—(Loud cheers.) The debate was then adjourned until Monday next. STIPENDIARY MAGISTRATES —IRELAND. Lord EBRINGTON moved for a return of the number of stipendiary magistrates appointed in Ireland, from April, 1839, to August, Nil. Lord ELIOT took occasion, in assenting to the granting of the return, to correct an error which had been made on the subject. For that purpose, he begged to mention that four of the magistrates mentioned in the return were appointed five weeks previous to the dissolution of the late Government. Sir J. GRAHAM said the return would show that between the Ist of June and the Bth of August, seven new stipendiary magistrates had been appointed by the Irish Government, and one was appointed on the ith of August, the very day, if he mistook not, before that on which they retired from office. Mr. LABOUCHERE said, that the Right Hon. Baronet had availed himself of an erroneous return to prefer against the late Government, a charge the gravamen of which was that seven magistrates had been appointed, by them in Ireland under circumstances which led the House to have an impres sion that they were appointed not for the purpose of maintain • ing peace in that country, but in order to effect a mere job. It now appeared, that there were three vacancies, and that they had only filled up those vacancies. Sir J. GRAHAM said it was better to postpone the discus sion until the return was made. Lord ELIOT said he had inadvertently been led to state that the whole of these seven appointments were made between the 15th of June and the 25th of August. It now appeared that three of the magistrates were appointed in the spring of 1841, and the other four between the 12th of July and the 27th to 7th August. Four new magistrates were appointed, he did not say for what purpose—in the last five weeks during which the late Administration held office. Mr. F. T. BARING said what appeared remarkable was that the explanation of the Right Hon. Gentleman did not confirm the statement of the Noble Lord. He would be glad to know if the returns would show whether the appointments were made to fill up vacancies, or whether they were new ap pointments? It was stated th at one appointment was made on the very last day ; it might be to fill up a vacancy caused by death or resignation. Sir J. GRAHAM—No, no. Mr. F. T. BARING said he believed the practice of the Treasury was to fill up all vacancies which occurred while the Administration were in power. Lord ELIOT said he had searched the Government Ga zettes that morning, in which it was customary to state whether appointments were new, or made in the room of others, and it appeared that four of these were new appointments.—( Hear.) Colonel SIBTHORP said he could make some allowance for the soreness of the Right Hou. Gentleman opposite, but he hoped that that soreness would not be removed by their coming over to that side of the House. In reply to a question from Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL, Lord ELIOT said he would endeavour to ascertain for what districts the magistrates in question had been appointed, and whether they had been retained. The return was then ordered. The House then adjourned, at a Quarter to One. THE WILL FORGERIES. MANSION-HORSE. Yesterday William Henry Barber, Joshua Fletcher, Thomas Griffin ' and Georgiana Dorey, were brought up be fore the Lord Mayor, for re-examination on the various charges of uttering forged wills, which have from time to time been preferred against them. Mr. Clarkson appeared for the prosecution ; Mr. Parry for the prisoner Barber; and Mr. Flower, the Solicitor, of Hat ton-harden, for Mrs. Dorey. Mr. Humfrey's clerk attended for 1. letcher. The examination of witnesses was immediately commenced. Dr. J. E. P. Robertson, one of the surrogates of the Prero gative Court of Canterbury, described the method usually pursued in swearing parties to affidavits in that Court. On the 16th of August he acted as surrogate, when two persons, representing themselves to be Elizabeth Stuart and Thomas Griffin, attended with a proctor, and were sworn to an affi davit, with the contents of which they stated that each of them was acquainted; that the signatures were in their handwriting, on which they were sworn to the truth of the contents. Mr. Richard Basset, a clerk in* the public drawing-office in the Bank, deposed that on the 22d of June, 1841, he re ceived an order of payment for 446/. 55., on account of un claimed dividends in stock, in the name of Eliza Burchard. He paid 1001. in notes to the bearer of that order.—(The witness then gave the number of the dates of the notes which he had so paid.) Mr. F. C. Hillary, also a clerk in the drawing-office, re ceived on the 22d of June, 1841, an order for payment of 446/. 55., on account of unclaimed dividends, belonging to Eliza Burchard, in the Three-and-a-Half per Cents. Reduced Annuities. He paid 3461. 55., to the bearer of the order, who wrote "E. Burchard, executrix, 9, Great Russell-street, Bloomsbury," on the back of the order. Mr. A. Irwood, a clerk in the London Joint-Stock Bank, deposed that a person named W. H. Barber kept an account in the London Joint-Stock Bank in 1841. He does not know the person of the prisoner. On the 22d of June, 1841, a per son paid in 135/. to Barber's account ; of that sum 1101. were in notes.—(The witness described the numbers and dates of the notes, which corresponded with those paid to the account of Eliza Burchard, by the clerk in the Bank.) Mr. W. Smee, chief accountant at the Bank—On the 20th of July, 1841, Barber, accompanied by a female calling herself Eliza Burchard, attended at my office : she came to receive the arrears of dividend directed to be transferred to her name as executrix of Eliza Burchard, deceased. The dividends had been unclaimed since 1824. Barber identified the female as Eliza Burchard, and I gave an order for payment of The dividends. Mr. W. Blakesley, a clerk in Roberts's banking-house, paid on the 20th of July, 1841, a cheque for 269/. 55., drawn by W. West, 265/. being paid in notes, the dates and numbers of which witness described. Mr. R. C. Fish, a pay-clerk at the Bank, paid, on the 21st of July, 1841, a Bank note • of 2001., which was undersigned with the name of Burchard, with 200 sovereigns ; and on the 22d of July he paid other notes, also in the name of Bur chard, and in gold. These were the notes described by the preceding witness. Mr. H. Hill was, in 1841, clerk to his brother, a stock broker. On the 20th of July, 1841, Barber directed him to sell 3001. Console, on account of Eliza Burchard. He sold it, and accompanied Barber and a female to the Bank, and the female sig ned the transfer. The 'stock was sold to Henry Smith. ° Witness handed Barber a crossed cheque for 2681. 17s. 6d. Barber objected to a crossed cheque. Witness then received a cheque from Smith for 2691. 55., on Roberts and Co., which was not crossed, and which was handed to Barber. Mr. E. Grattan, a clerk in the Southwark Branch of the London and Westminster Bank, proved that the signature of Eliza Burchard, on some of the notes, was in Fletcher's handwriting. Mr. Clarkson announced that the evidence in all the cases, except that of Hunt, was now complete, and that he should be prepared to go to trial at the next sessions, He would, therefore, ask to have the prisoners remanded. Mr. Parry, on behalf of Barber, accused the prosecution of attempting to suppress facts, which, if known, would raise the strongest possible presumption of Mr. Barber's innocence. The prosecution knew that a highly respectable solicitor had been imposed on by the same parties, and in the same man ner as Mr. Barber. The parties to whom Cookson had al luded had not yet been apprehended. Mr. Clarkson, in reply, stated that his Learned Friend would have a proper opportunity of proving all those facts, but it could not be supposed that the prosecution would call witnesses that were unncessary. Mr. Parry asked for a remand for a fortnight, in order to enable Mr. Barber's solicitor to make such inquiries as might be necessary for his defence. The Learned Gentleman then called, Mr:Brumhall, the solicitor to Mr. Barber, who stated that ou Tuesday evening last facts of the greatest importance had come to his knowledge, which, when brought to light, would establish Mr. Barber's innocence. Mr. Clarkson begged to say that he himself had asked for a remand to a day as near the commencement of the session as possible. Mr. Freshfield said there was another case in which, he believed, a forgery had been committed, but he had no proof of it. If Mr. Parry would furnish him with the proofs, if he were in possession of them, he would cause those parties to be apprehended. He understood that Mr. Dorey was sustaining some prejudice on account of his wife's apprehension on this charge. He felt it right to state that he did not believe that Mr. Dorey had had any knowledge whatever of these trans actions until his wife had been apprehended. He thought it right to make this statement, as he understood that Mr. Dorey had been injured in his business in consequence of the prejudice which these transactions had created against him; a prejudice which he behaved was utterly unfounded. Mr. Flower thanked Mr. Freshfield for the statement he had just made, and stated that Mr. Dorey had suffered seriously in his business. These transactions had taken place before his acquaintance with Mrs. Dorey, and therefore he could have known nothing about them. It was ultimately arranged that the prisoners should be remanded till this day fortnight. The depositions of the various witnesses were then read over to them and signed. ADVERTISEMENT. Foust SUPPLEMENTS WITH THE " DISPATCH."- The extraordinary demand for the Dispatch of Sunday last, Feb. I I, with a Second Supplement, extended to 165,000 impressions, and affords the Proprietors the gratification of finding that the exertions they made to furnish their readers with a perfect History of the great National Trial are AIRY appreciated. To render the Supplements to the Dispatch truly acceptable to their patrons, the Proprietors have hen induced, by the length of the proceedings, to alter their cirigloel plan, and instead of presenting Two Supplements, they will extend it to FOUR, thus rendering the record of this memorable trial both ample and complete. The Supplements of Feb. 4 and 'II are still on sale ; but early applications are necessary to ensure the pos session of these portions of this invaluable historical• register. Orders for the Dispatch aro received by every News Agent and Book seller in the kingdom ; and by Mr. Wood, at the Dispatch Office, 139, Fleet-street. SINGULAR CUSTOM OF THE PRUSSIANS.—Mr. Carter held an inquest at the King's Arms, Rotherhithe, as to the death a Andrew Anderson, aged 20, a Prussian sea ma' t!eiling to the ship Norden ' who was drowned in the Commercial Docks. Th e deceased, while getting from the ship into a boat caught hold of a rope that. was not made fast to the ship, and fell into the water. In about twelve minutes the body was got out, and every means used to restore ani mation, but without effect. The jury returned a verdict of " Accidentally drowned," The captain and most of the officers of the allip were present, 'and they als o liablein followe d ,rithe Prussia I ,IOY to the grave, as_ they are crim inall y unless they can give a satisfactory accoun t of any missing Prussian subject who had been under their command, and left the country with them. MONEY AND COMMERCIAL NEWS CITY, FKIDAY EVENING. Stocks closed at firm rates. Consuls 971 to 97i, and the others much the same as in the morning. The Foreign Bonds were not much dealt in after our first report. Spanish closed at 23 for the Actives, and 32 to 326 for the. Three per Cents. Portuguese Converted rose to 45 to 45/, and Colombian to 134 to 13i. Belgian were 104 and Peruvian, 31g. , The additional transactions in Railwav Shares have been these :—Eastern Counties, New, were P 34 ; Brighton, 74 ; Midland Counties, 136 ; and North Midland, 11 to 12 dis count. Eastern Counties Extension have been 11 to 4 ; • Great Western, Fifths, 61 ; Guildford Junction, 21 to 2 ; South Western, 366 ; Ditto, Eighths, :4 ; Croydon, 2 ; Manchester and Leeds, 43; Norwich and Brandon, 14 to ; New castle and Darlington, 20 to 191 ; Northern and Eastern, ; Rouen and Havre, 6 ; South Eastern Scrip, 94 ; and Yarmouth and Norwich, 6to 61 premium. London Joint Stock-Bank Shares were 2;c premium ; Canada Company, 7i to 74; and General Steam Navigation Company, 13i prem. The exchange on Paris, Frankibrt, and Hamburgh, seemed rather firmer this afternoon. On Amsterdam and the other places it was much the same. (From The Sun of Last Night.) The• sales of Cotton at Liverpool, yesterday, were only. 9 ,500 bales, parties awaiting the arrival of the steamer. 2(0 bales were Egyptian, at 70. to 8,1 d.; 80 Pernambuco, at: 6.0. to 100 Surat at 4d. to 41d.; and the rest Ame- ; rican, at sid. to 7d., for Orleans. A fair business was done! in Shares, but prices were rather heavy. Eastern Counties were 10A; Edinburgh and Glasgow, 59 ; Grand Junction, 227 ; Brighton, 42i ; Midland Connt 891 ; North Midland, 90 ; Paris and Lyons, 2 17-20 ; Paris and Orleans, 33 ; Paris and Rouen, ; South Eastern, New, 341. The Avon having at last arrived, the community interested in the West Indies have been much relieved of the anxiety under which they laboured, and consider that the steamer has proved herself an excellent. sea-boat. We must observe, however, that the general accounts from the West India islands are by no means satisfactor y , as in Jamaica the drought continued m os t excessive, and the cattle wern suffering severely. The crops must, under these circum stances, prove greatly deficient. The island was healthy, notwithstanding, and it is remarked that the population, at no period since the emancipation, had been so well conducted. The state of trade was very indifferent, and capital was scarce, as well as bills, to remit to England. It will be seen whether the new colonial tariff will affect the trade of the island. From Demerara we hear chiefly of political squabbling, but the colony is said not to be in a very flourishing state, though particular estates made good crops. Barbadoes has been rather better off than Jamaica, but the showers have been too partial to afford material relief. Trinidad has been favoured both in respect to labour and weather. From Mexico there seems to be nothing of prominent inte rest, except what may be contained in the Government dispatches. The remittance for the dividends is 57,000 dol lars ; and private merchants, as also one or two of the mines, have received good amounts.. The English Funds are buoyant this morning, and there is a good business doing. The reduction of the interest on Exchequer Bills will probably throw more of the unemployed capital into Consols, which have touched 97i to for present transfer, and 97i to for Account. The Commissioners have purchased 20,0001. of this security at the highest rate. EX chequer Bills at 11d. are 70s. premium. Reduced Three-arid a-Half per Cents. have been a shade higher, viz , 103 to 103 k, and the New,lo2 to 102 k. The Three per Cents. ha'e obtained 98* to 98g. Bank Stock has risen to 193* and 194, and East India Stock is very firm at 2771 to 278. The Foreign Bonds are rather lively, especially Mexican, which, on account of the remittance, * have touched 35i for Account, though since down again to 34*. The Deferred have ranged from 11i to 12*. Colombian Stock has been buoyant also at 12T, to 13. Brazilian are quiet at 79. In Peruvian there have been further speculative bargains at ad vanced rates, 311 up to 321, but we may anticipate a re action, unless some more decided course is found to exist than the mere prospect of Guano dividends. Spanish Bonds have been quiet at 23A to for the Five per Cents., and at 321 to * for the Three per Cents. The news is certainly not encouraging, but prices keep steady. Portuguese Converted Stock is 44* to and flat ; and Dutch Two-and-a-Half per Cents. are 55* to The Railway Shares are quiet, but in very few instances lower. Birmingham are 135 to 134 premium, ex div. The French lines are looking better, and also South Eastern. Nothing has been done in Blackwell. MANCHESTER STOCK EXCHANGE, FEB. 15.—Although we cannot report any improvement in our market to-day, yet prices remain firm at the following quotations :—Manchester and Birmingham, 40 ; Manchester and Leeds Quarter, 9 1 1; Paris and Lyons, 2; ; South Eastern, 34i ; Ditto Scrip, 344 ; Barnsley Junction, 3i ; Sheffield and Manchester Quarter Shares, 7 13-16. CLOSING PRICES. BRITISH FUNDS. Bank Stock 3 per Cent. Red. 3 per Cent. C0n5...... 97% Ditto Old Annuities — 3% per Cent. Red 1036 ;Ditto New Annuities.. New 36 per Cent 102% lEx. Bills, 1,000/. lid. —pm New 5 per Cent. Long Annuities to expire 1 Ditto Small.-- —pm Jan. 1860 Oct. 1859 Jan. 1860 ...... FOREIGN FUNDS. A ittnan, 5 per cent. — ! Portuguese, 5 per cent. Belgian. 5 per cent lO6l ! Ditto, New Ditto ..... . Brazilian 80nd5.......... 791 I Prussian, 5 per cent —. B rams Ayres 6 per cent. Russian, 5 per cent — Cnilian, 6 per cent — Ditto, Metallic .... Colombian, 6 per cent... .13i 'Spanish, 5 per cent 23 Ditto 1824 — ;Ditto, 3 per cent... 32 Cu'.ia Bonds, 6 per cent 93 ;Ditto Deferred.— ... In Danish, 3 per !ent 'French, 5 per cent, —f. —e. Greek, 1825, 5 per cent — !Exchange ...... .... —f. .—c. Mexican, 5 per cent 34 !French, 3 per cent. —f. —c. Ditto, 6 per cent. 1837 i Dutch, 2i per cent. 55/ Peruvian,lB2s,6 per et. 31 Ditto, 5 per cent.... 102/ SHARES. Eastern Counties (23 paid) lO Ditto New Shares (25 paid) ... Ditto Extension (I's 4d paid) Great Western (75 paid) Ditto Half Shares (12 paid) ... 181 London and Brighton (50 pa d) . London and Guildford Junction ( 5 paid)... 7 London and South Western (41/ 6s 10d pd) 77/ Ditto Eighths (15s. paid) ... 21 London and Croydon Railway ( Trunk) . ... 14 Lancaster and Carlisle (5 paid) . 5/ Manchester and Leeds (70 paid) ...... .. 113 Midland Counties Railway (100 paid) Norwich and Brandon (2 paid) ..... Northern and Eastern (45 paid) COURSE OF EXCHANGE.—(YESTERDAY.) Amsterdam CF. 12 6 ' Gibraltar Ditto, at sight l2 4 Leghorn Rotterdam 2U. 12 61 Genoa 25 95 • Antwerp Hamburgh M.B. 13 15 Venice Altona l4 0 Naples 39/ Paris, 3 days' sight... 25 65 Palermo, per oz llBl Ditto, 3 months 25 85 Lisbon 53/ Marseilles Bourdeaux 25 90 Rio Janeiro 23 Frankfort on Maine.. 122 Bahia ' 23 Pettrsburgh, 3 Us... 361 Buenos Avtes — Berlin 7 - NewYork,2ldys sight Vienna, effec. fl. 3 M 955 Philadelphia — Irieste, ditto 1 956 PRICES OF BULLION, PER OZ. Madrid 361 Foreign Gold, bara...£3 17 9 Cadiz Bilbao 36 New Doubloons—. 0 0 0 Barcelona 36 New Dollars 0 4 pit Seville — Silver in Bars 0 4 ilif RY NOTES. PROMISSO (From Last Night's Gazette.) An account of the Average Aggregate Amount of Promis sory Notes payable to bearer on demand, which have been in circulation in the United Kingdom, distinguishing those circulated by the Bank of England, by Private Banks, and by Joint-Stock Banks, in England and Wales, by the Banks in Scotland, by the Bank of Ireland, and by all other Banks in Ireland, and of the Average Amount of Bullion in the Bank of England, during the four weeks ending the 3d day of February, 1844, pursuant to the Act of 4th and sth Vic toria, cap. 50 : ENGLAND. Bank of England ...... £21,828,000 Private Banks 4,980,138 Joint-Stock Banks 00000 ••• 3,446,433 SCOTT Pill. Chartered, Private, and Joint-Stock Banks 2,791,403 IRELAND. Bank of Ireland 3,581,000 Private and Joint-Stock Banks Total Bullion in the Bank of England .............£15,480,000 HENRY L. WICKHAM. Stamps and Taxes, Feb. 16, 1844. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. NEWMARKET COURSING MEETING.--TH Ult SDA Y. T►rn OAKS.-Mr. Tyson's Faultless beat Mr. Saberton'o Swift—Mr. Saberton's Smart beat Mr. Dobede's Donna Ma ria—Mr. Gillett's Garter beat Mr. Vipan's Valetta—Mr. Fyson's Fidelity beat *Mr. Gillett's Godiva—Captain Dain tree's Kitty Bolton beat Mr. Edwards's Asp—Mr. Inskip's Jessie beat Mr. Nash's Crucifix. THE Cur.—Mr. Inskip's Jet beat Mr. Moody's Racer— Mr. Fyson's Ferrand beat Mr. Drinkald's Euclid—Mr. Saber tOn's Simoom beat Mr. Edwards's Arsenic—Mr. Fyson's Fore most beat Captain Daintree's Kissing Crust—Mr. Dobedele Duncan beat Mr. Vipan's Victorina—Mr. Nash's Cruiskeen beat Mr. Gillett's Gipsey Queen—Captain Daintree's Knight Errant beat Mr. King's Railroad—Mr. Dobede's Dalgetty beat Mr. Moody's Recruit. TrrE DERRY.-Mr. Edwards's Auber beat Mr. Vipan's Slasher—Mr. Inskip's Juggler beat Mr. Fyson's Fairfax-- Mr. Dobede's Donnybrook beat Mr. Saberton's Spanker— Captain Daintree's Viscount beat Mr. Finch'S Gamester— Mr. Nath's Captain beat Mr. Moody's Richmond—Mr. Finglis's Garrick beat Mr. Drinkald's Election—Mr. Dobede's Dragonetti ran a bye. THE PORT STA K ES.-Mr. Nash's Colonel beat Mr. Edwards'e Albemarle—Mr. Vipan's Vale beat Mr. Sabertort's Verona-- Mr. Inskip's Jewess beat Mr. Drimald's Eagle—Mr. Finch's Goto beat Mr. Fyson's Franklin—Mr. Dobede's Dolor' beat Captain Daintree's Key: LANARKSHIRE AND RENFREWSHIRE, DEC. 9 aND 10. The Cup for all-aged dogs was won by Mr. A. Graham's His Highness; the Pollock Stakes by Mr. A. Graham's Saltatore ; the Patterton Stakes by Sir W. A Maxwell's Melampus ; the Crookston Stakes by Mr. Langtry's Bram; the Darnley Stakes by Mr. A. Pylbrook'a King Lear; and the Consolationn - Stakes by Dr. Brown's Fencer HEREFORD STEEPLE CHASE—THURSDAY. The Grand Steeple Chase Handicap of 25 sovs. each, with 150 sovs. added, 15 ft, and 5 only if declared. Four miles. (45 Subs.-23 declared.) Mr. J. Raworth's Robin Adair, list (Bradley) 1 Mr. W. Ekins' Duenna, Ilst 21b Mr. Quartermain's Discount, list 71b The following also started :—Vanguard, Regalia, Lycur gus, Carlow, Lottery, Calverthorpe, Hazard, Roulette, Preiss nitz, Charity, Lady Harkaway, Josephine, Turfcutter, and Sister to Ferneley. The early hour at which the mail left precludes our glving more than the bare return. , - CHATSWORTH ; OR THE ROMANCE OF A WEEK.— That large portion of the reading world who look to the e t r h t e he an a tu p t i t e c e e s m o en t announcement of circulating library for their intellectual entertainment, have been put nnusuallv on the qui rive u b2 d , p o pular and distinguished ault%hreoralorefa`d'yTkrenmoire," a new work of fiction, appearing universally and "De Were, and and bearing the attractive title of "Chats worth ; or the 'Romance of a Week." the admirable use which the great Scottish novelist made .” of the P ea k scenery and traditions in his " Peveril of the remains to be seen how the Palace of the Peak itself—for such; is the local name of Chatsworth Palace—is to employed in the present instance. But,. if report speaks truly, it is not ~but with Chatsworth as it IS, with its traditional associations, ' that the forthcoming work will concern itself. Of