The Sun. — London, England, 1845-02-14 00:00:00

come to a bl e . gFc n. N of 3 dceisiOns. prevent 1111'ed who suppn ld ar him w hie ;undo on o! I. I n nee, inadverte to ooze, 04' eculation• of the bar o- t° 5 n of tj ectio iehle 55d his 1\ re al at bya id been " - : - t i o ns t their P e l l 6 0 0 this " Y aid 13°Q to con l hose wo ni pio of the 4 cie , it ird of Tr, t ot both i n id !nse wo o , 1 scheme' Loo se the • afore . •,,te fitabie lit other ted, wh ile i o in o .rig a decis deng Out bur reuses. kn° w Id I not . • th ho hem to "l e o b. list be c l ti ec l 'isios i o their u ite 0 ve been q u , to sons a s doubt s it " 9 th a bo an op pt quite trai n the A i r adopted be . taken t ace e d 'lO l d onaui* bt the No doe re/ 01 1 ' b e to P f D try oo I lion. O. far 0 at as t hea; v for t hef 3as, at the im" bu 6 ink, eriod ; s r eic; ended on os ii ihem t l 3 , e lie tti _ t t h e y ea was the . 0, tell l c hs . )use Feb. 13 ' to 0 Zuarter tea in favor d obot ° t he t , Lyfle ' ti ions s 0 3,ESS. or. ot , fro° ea agr i Lich Pr e LAP. f r eol oo wtition., pep., of I,s° u 0 so se duo' 0,0 SC 6l' the r q ffromtjlat, f )laini t 'S is e burg ; of count ° vie * Wit" oN• irial frOl n ttO n indi O ih r a r eo'l 001 gr. ve fis Ac es 500 tet,losSi? benco Attiv7the in s " t iot eref°re' 0 so' E , o ce frn— o uo tow c Ps ink' 4 notic ) Dac n i t e d o of be_ t be o e ld in ° l e 0 rO g co direct' o ro v d fr°lll THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY-- same nature, many of which were " never tried in that way," which the lion. and Gallant Member said, put him in mind of the grave-digger in flanild, when he patent colfine f or biiryin,?, a hundred a n d t wen ty men a oThe last class in the service which he noticed was that of the qua-brigs, and ,hf those a whole host had •been introduced into the service, likely to excite a great deal of notice but calculated to be of little service. There-was the Barker, the Bruizer, and number c.f others, which if t aken together, would form a whole p tele. But these w. re soon exploded, and the ten-gun brigs were shortly after wards introduced for them. These a-sin in their torn had last y ear been ce ndenmed by the shipwright's co mmittee.' The ceuntry lied been put to an en .r -teens expense in their construction, and for their nuPport, b ut they were proied to be utterly unfit for -the purpose for whi c h t h ey were intended. The A dmiralty had indeed thrown away their own exertions and the money of the country in building bad ships, and when the American war broke out, and they might have hooked forward to that event for many years, the Admiralty were utterly unable to contend with their s'iver sar i es. They had not indeed a single 'vess el of the same c l ass f i t to meet the i r corvhettes, n or a s i ngle frigate capable of contending Nvit their friates. He Sir C. Napier) well remem bered the repor g t of that day, when a naval officer would b are bee n scouted if he he had ventured to utter even a l i nt of the inability of British ships to contend theuecess ,, IIY with A mer i can vessels of the same refine; as eir acand not svi thstand ne all Ihe wareing they reeeived u t h n e t i they Government of the'd a y had never opened their eyes learned that three British frigates lied beeu e aPtured an d conveyed into A merieen ports.—(hear.)gilat did th ey do then? The Admiralty immediately dered six forty -gun frigates to be laid down ; but they were so constructed that they proved to be utterly aild they consequently had three on to at the present - moment, and they were likely still retain them in the same unprofitable state. The nighttime and Gallant Officer at that time at the head of the Admiralty directej Sir RSe ins to lay down the i e s hiP which s h ould have such qiialities as would obviate "ue def ects which had been experienced. It was then tcon s id ered that ships had not been built strong enough. i th the assistance of Mr. Bright, Mr. Roberts, Mr. adgc and several o th er s hi pwr i g h ts, much improvement no doubt, b een e ff ecte d . Ships had, fix twenty that Years befbre, been built with stern galleries, and much was calculated to overload and encumber them. These they altogether did away with, and introduced the Plain round stern, which had now been generally adopted, a nc l with ade3irable success. Another error coin rktted by the shipwrights of those days was in the in tee a utietion of heavy transome timbers. They had intro whichheavy diagonal timbers along the water-way, n j quite overloaded the vessels, and were tit t ° e -Y for ships of far greater proportions t •into which they were placed. Ili meet d e - ha Commanded one, the Euryalus, whicliwas consi ed th e 'd , f the oceun; but after it was altered it b e pri e `ea• lise so bad that it would never stand upon its lev, pe a was nearly upset going to Scotland. Another fine .B ' e' " the Caledonia, had been widened. Lerd bamouth begged that she might not be touched ; si ren tim bers, however, were throwu out or she had B.eete widened, and had never been a good ship 0, 111 7' All those errors at length became so evident becamea-a n ,_"ange in the system of ship-building improvements --ces sarY ; and, he must say, they owed many .ander , re t i h n i a zi rv. t ) s in this •rticular to the Yacht Club. — Those vessels t which had been built -- arY Board were constructed in such a tout at Tanner that they would neither wear, tack, or steer. la t s o t the feeling of the public became so s etro o % o ,ae the A g d i m le iral w ty ay. and the Navy 130 ird w Sir William Symonds was h , sv ed to construct a ship, Captain Hayes was built to construct one, and Captain Hendall hall a nother. Those ships were the .4apphire, the CeC eri e ger, and the Acorn, and those frigates, with the to:amine, which was an 18-gun ship, the Wolf, and -1.3, went to sea. The Sapphire and the Columbine e, re the best of those vessels, and the guns of the eti e4the s hip would go under the bottom of the leeward the while the guns of the leeward ship would go over other truck of the weather one. He, in common with mane Bos Persons, wished to see the construction of their ves let improved,i and he wrote a letter on the subject on the rife ). etcher, 1827, to his Royal Highness the Duke tract to from which he begged leave to read an ex naval the House. In that letter he stated that tho du et , service of the country would be much better con reet4l if the Naval and Admiralty Board were ainalga tere'r•Tand the whole placed under the controul of the eeLigh Admiral. It was generally allowed that the theeeleuoaed were the last to adopt any improvements; the r m wi,sregarded the suggestions of others, believing that For ' e 7 (n a wisdom of the' navy was centred in themselves. c e ;', n aval officer to obtain a seat at the Naval Board, to g - ; necessary that he should possess interest enough after appointed to one of the foreign dockyards, and 441 -. '"lng about from one to another, he succeeded to h 44 the first • S o merset House. But he se so vacancies at Often expressed his opinion of how the Admi kaßaik-Lfermed, that he need not go into the question "s (a. "hen the Right Hon. Baronet came into office, Thejest oil. C harles Na ,la up the letter he had ted by a pa p mhlet, ddressed to Sir J. Peelle', arty "p'ght Honourable Baronet, as one of the first • ard: / ` hie administration, broke up the Naval ","1 riot a n ,d he highly approved of that step ; but he L' i Ntit,;, t nink so highly of the body which had been 1'1%1,4174 for it. The consequence had been, the tblt"f an immense quantity of work on the Ad t• r , Parti cu l arly on the First Lord, to such an ex lay at m, spa n a n was morally and physically impossible for heck iq t i L' l ) l 4'E) throu g h the duties of that office, so as to eight 1,44 the subjects of great importance that were ,e p ow ore him every day of his life. It was not in t tble ; s e r of any man to do it. It was perfectly impos- Ittee 3 • 44 if they did not take some steps to change the h: _! l eY would continue to commit the errors which e inkl 8470ec essor s had committed. After the Admiralty I, 4 tet f, t hat Captain Symonds had constructed a fine eee t- e Mid le e - ght ;„, especially a good e 'edy 0 „ - e ,"" the service, they took the great resp.onsi ioo,,nee--ft7nzilselves of allowing that gentleman to Jump pet? tons: an 18gun corvette T to a 50-gun frigate of he Vernon had answered shi p Vernon. v 1 ;2 • 0„'",e,I 1 and he really believed . that she was a good th e thou", k; aPtain Symonds producing the Vernon, he "e got to be the fittest person to be Surveyor of Navy . e ` i rititi e and although he had a great opinion of 'eoti '-'neeed-, as an officer, anti he knew what was a thi_, leedel and c q „'l l t i t „,, certain points . about a ship, he did not ip er `," a ship sufficiently well to have the sole I te st do,k‘,",eir building ; he had never been brought up %tilt apt rd• and could not, there!' 're, judge of the tij i t'oa ' e ther matters connected with the timber and the,leauchse.lin the composition of a . man-of-war. After le I., po et ",` the Vernon she was tried, and believed fi Par t ' ‘‘a'l extremely favourable, except the motion 114 Mule r et et. - sea, and that it was not quite so easy to prey' h a d g is ti n t s as could be wished. The Vernon, how- ND of a se e ' Le eming qualities ; she could carry a great lei o c eul e d - e ," v ass, she was very handy on a lee shore, *h e y of ( -'' e rk her guns generally well. Such was the he rto the 4 a t, P i t ,. aio Gunning and Captain Walpole, and mottseuter.: Lord opposite had the command and took ilk en te a l ea, he found she had a worse and quicker l im n th e w n he expected, though the opinion of her was, tai b uilt -61 e , favourable. After that Sir IV. Symonds e t ls• Atveral 26 gun frigates, and several 16-gun the hr Ported t,he captains who had sailed these vessels lienutlg ' e T" "tvourably of them, and they had said that rs.lll 3 •Lio r p Si p ,_th e f particularly were a great improvement for 18 -gun brigs. The next ship which th o lleh ‘ltuontrs had built was the Vanguard. 4, - . ship bee said against that ship ; but he believed tie t i d a h e , 5 , 8 . 4 good ship. He had an opportunity of Itr gaie e ` t ri , e k el in the Mediterranean. She had been w as in- the Powerful and the Ganges. He had seen ee ae 4s at heavy gale against six ships of' the line. I N th e e Van.;t and he must admit that when daylight airier Much situard was the most leeward ship. He 11:1Led fat'Priand at that, but it could scarcely be con hr trial, lied ar e taa because unforeseen circumstances th ey II eeureed to occasion such a state of things; She her , 4 , ( . 1 . 11 ad no opportunities subsequently of oiti tig ua - rd “ , l, l v r trial. But he was free to admit that t4l e e n the a good, efficient, and seaworthy ship. The - edieje a f i nt °ctel of the ship had been presented to We - had "Y' it was evident that their Lord eie,Adreirart sufficiently considered the subject. t e ; e d th e - did not appear to have sufficiently con fiNtent model of the Vanguard. As fitted out at the N ee h il s ur 11/efersiae would be set on fire in the very NW` nst as °I "en- The Vanguard appeared on the th e a , c , 4 , 4 Bn_ The ship, but she should be only en4, 4 edit et ; 'Segun ship, as she lost two of her guns in ilisee -t neti o lule an• The Gallant Officer condemned the l i i n e esd tit 'e• 63,f, the Pique, as expensive, cltimsy, and oe xt euok her voyage to the West Indies she a the Wh r , " ex traerdinary degree, that Captain ` i d n • /la ss a 'passenger, told her captain that if' e get u 1 e e au° , P her runners and tackle, her course ( lee eh e tiesderenns• Several vessels had been laid down of at - the Pi que, to 10..ckeit wry had and six vessels had been laid te t , e the Isltti enormous expense. The Surveyor t„ ettild ship C alled been allowed . to build a pl fe th e ' ed the Queen, and in order tieglia_een, the Royal - Frederic was taken Inetf ee , of t b i was the eclat that attended the coin ell to 4 ve ssel. that the Queen of England went to tA re ellb e s ee her, T h e ueen was sent to Malta, iat th , a titan of one - of the oldest officers in the ),c' Adao r s a e j t e ntY-five years of age ; and in order lie eh et 's fhe I , O Y r ight form an opinion as to her sail he,arles N_ inidable was sent out with her, and he forgott Napier thought that a very wise step. e her en to 8 h vv a no or e t h eir ay that, with the example of the eo ue f wer t h an e es, the Board of' Admiralty laid al1,1114r17(1./ was BelXXtrQealeeely" V a L m a e ll a g b h l e t e r in n—and them.—th t able c ould I_Q_ .believed it to be the fact, nevertheless, W e l l ' to sh " get the papers he had asked for, he would i t ee k ,,' the Qu een the state those ships were now in. t)1;' "a went to Malta, and the Admiralty Its t e satisfi e d - th, read the with her sailing powers. Now, y Powers of the Queen; and here let him of le dee. could of b • erAtit e re p ,itne ee ee believe, when he read it, that t t the ,hltY, The have emanated from the Board etab o. _ after uocument was headed, "Character r w r h e.e nine Truths' trial." (Here the lion. p t liQk w ieh caused h o questions and anewere from the oyas?,„ c. " Tow douoeds ltahuegghtueerenthrroiduLg.l?-wut. Answer,Some ht4 y do e „ hp does sr hesihme?"we"alrtathheerr (12brelltil?) e-)gGlirteea,rt.)als c"orsiline'a'awrrerdy " . Is she weatheri s e nti uu ntrar,. augther.) er, „w i kt r h eat o h t e h r o i3 r .., s , hips ?"-- e ed hit ' 7 "n ea Ight er.) An or er' st;o lr e g er ? y e eas y ."— ( • "Does a titereelllgs•l"'eeevri?liChuAiltilsw 5~hi44 na‘lit4istellagihte.r.) Then followed Laughter.) A a u s s e w r e i e r s , q V u e e r s e: eseo d b Points of ever • ts, tti a, the ails e pl aced on y position almost in which sai d b tlitti e ve was apng voyage, to every one 'of h, Of th e , Never tried," which caused a c,"'are ,Wcuid 4ughter.) The Hon. Member then r ' t Ae • ee tne to c lUe s 4 ' art 4 'ltaltv sto 'Whinanother report of the ti oll or twee t ,on another t of the 4110yer" t h etns- He then l'a rad the ' ‘tt ppeared to be of the had taken all the coat; and waistcoats ttlfl—(Laughter.) Now, in order that it should not be said that he wanted to make fish of one and flesh of another"—(Laugh t-r)—he would read the report of an officer of the navy one of the most clever and talented in the service. He had set out by praying the attention of . the .Home to this question, for it was not one either of party or politics.— (Hear, hear.) Now, he would say, it was wrong for the Board of Admiralty to lay down six Queens— (Laughier)—he certainly could not see why they were proceeded with. Well, the Queen came home, was tent into docks, and underwent an examination by the officers he had alluded to ; and the result was, that the Queen was a vessel that had been re presented in a manner calculated to ruin any ship. It appeared that the Queen steered so badly that she was obliged to have her foresail u p an d h er ma i nsa il se t to keep her by the wind. She pitched in such a tre mendous manner that her middle-deck guns were in the water, and he understood that her rolling was of the same nature. He had before hire the report of the gal lant officer commanding her, who could not tell how she would behave in Malta harbour--(Lanslster) —cud ~ ciao seemed to have had mach difficulty in picking up a gale of wind—(Langhter)—which could not be done on the coast of Portugal, in winter, but if he had extended his peregrinations as far as the the Westward Isles, he would have perhaps found no difficulty what ever. It appeared from the reports of this Gallant Officer, that, the Queen found great difficulty in steering for want of sufficient power in her rudder, and that under low and easy sail she could not be well kept to the wind. The Queen returned to port, and was finally paid off, at Sheerness, and was now in the Dockyard, at Chatham, to have her keel increased, her stern-post changeds, (her magazine altered, and other repairs. This was of course all done with the approval of the surveyor of the navy himself. Now, if this doctrine did not succeed in the case of the Queen, what was tobe done? Were they to return to the system upon which they acted fifty-five years ago? Were they to go on building three-deckers and making them seventy-fours, building seventy fours and making them frigates, building frigates and making them corvettes ?—(Hear.) If the Queen did not answer, it would puzzle the Admiralty to tell what to do with her? The only thing they could do was to follow the example of their predecessors in the case of the Boscawen. That ship was first of all laid down, in 1814, as a seventy-four gun ship ; in 1819, she was made an eighty-gun ship ; and, in 1834, after eight . yt ars' sailing, she waa changed into a seventy-gun ship. upon the surveyor's present plan. He came next to the Albion. Sir R. Symonds, before he left the navy, laid down three ninety-two-gun ships, the Rodney, the Nile, and the London. The Rodney was dis patched to a distant station. She carried thirty-two pounders on her lower, main, and quarter-decks ; she measured 2.626 tons, and her hull cost 67.5501. That vessel, as he before observed, was commanded by Admiral Parker, than whom there was no better seaman. She was next commanded by Captain Mansell, who was an equally good officer, and after a careful examination she was approved by both. Take her as a sea boat or as a man-of-war, there was no better vessel,thoughof course she could not sail so fast as vesssls of a smaller size. Though she carried five morths' provisions, and stores for a year, and was considerably loaded, she car ried her lover deck several inches out of the water. She was as lively as any ship could be. When the late Lords of the Admiralty came into office, it was very natural that they should try to build ships on the new principle, which would be as good as those built on the old one; and, acecor dingly, the Albion was built, and commanded by Capt. Lockart, an excellent seaman. He believed that the Right Hon. and Gallant Officer opposite approved of the Albion, and wrote a pamphlet in praise of the prin ciple upon which she was built. Well, when she was sent with the Caledonia on an experimental trip, he was informed that the Albion rolled in a dreadful manner, and that it was perfectly impossible to keep her lower port holes open. There was an anecdote related of her which spoke volumes. When the captain came alongside the Caledonia and saw how quiet she was, compared to his own ship, he called out to the Captain of the Caledonia, and said (he would use his own words), " Damn my eyes, Jack, your ship's aground."--(Much laughter.) The Albion was a stiff ship, there was no doubt of it. If there were no other reason, the 'great breadth of her beam would be sufficient to ensure that quality. Her sails also were better set than those of the St. Vincent. If he understood the Gallant. Officer aright, there was a serious disadvantage to which she was subject—an ina bility to keep her lower ports open when the weather was rough. During the time she was in company with other three-deckers and those other ships of the squadron which had the whole of their ports open and their guns run out, the Albion was obliged to keep her lower ports closed. This was no slight disadvantage, for if the commanding officer had made a signal for the captain to open his lower ports and run out his guns, he must have been placed in this very unpleasant posi tion—that he must either have disregarded the signal, and so disobeyed his orders, or, by obeying them, have opened his ports, and by bringing them, through the sway of the ship, below the sur face of the water, have swamped the ship. He might, it is true, have made a report to the Admi ralty that he was unable to carry ou with his lower ports open, but this would have been, after all, but mere talk, in which the country could take no interest, however much it might justify her captain for his conduct. But all the talk in the world was of no avail. Another order might indeed have been given, and as he saw an old sailor opposite to him—(Loud laughter, as the attention of the House was directed to the Solicitor-General)—there was some: one who, beside the. Gallant Friend to whom he had alluded, was able to judge of the propriety of the objection alleged against this ship, and sea how impossible it was for the Captain of the Albion to obey either it or the signal of which he had previously spoken. One mode by which the true character of this ship might have been ascertained was by bringing herand the Queen into a hostile position with respect to each other. In fact, to get them engaged. He did not mean that they should fire shot at each other, but that they should fire as if they were in action, and then it would be seen which ship fired the fastest, and which kept up her firing the best. There was another objection to the Albion, if the report be true which had been made respecting her. The Rodney, which was a two-decker, carrying 92 guns, carried her lower deck seven feet six inches out of the water when at sea, and fully stored. while the Albion, with only three months' provisions on board, and with only a usual rate of stores, was only six feet nine and a half inches out of the water, if the level of the lower deck was to be taken as the guage. There were two ways by which this level was to be ascertained, for it would be recollected that the range of the outer port was three inches more than that of the same propor tionate parallel within. He alluded to the deck floor ing. The way in which a guage of the height of a ship out of the water was to be taken was by taking a button and laying it on a level with the port, slid to measure the distance between that and another batten laid &ong the level of the water. By this measurement it was ascertained that the height of the Albion could not be so high,as six feet six inches. But. when sailing. the Albion could not be so high as six feet six inches, for he found by the builder's report that this was the measurement which gave her height before she received her guns. She had, therefore, at that time, ] 2O guns to take in ; and he would leave the House to judge whether the addition of this weight would not decrease the height of her lower deck ports out of the water when she got to sea. He now came to the consideration of sailing ships in general. It appeared by the list which had been.tur nished to him by the Admiralty, and which was now on the table of the House, that, since 1830, five 120- gun ships had been built, costing more than► 3,000,0001 The Queen cost 83,0001., the Trafalgar 87,0001., the Royal William 76,000 L, the Waterloo '72,0001., and the St. George 79,0001. From this it would be seen that, in proportion, the Queen was more expensive than any of them. The Rodney, of 2,626 tons, cost 67,5501. ; the Nile, of the same burden, .70,0001. ; the London, of 2,602 tons, 71,0001.; and the Albion ' of ninety guns, and a tonnage of 3,110 tons, 89,3411. When entirely fitted up, the cost of the Albion would be immense. After Marking the cost of the Vanguard, the Thunderer, and other vessels, the Gallant Commodore went on to say that, since 1830, there had been constructed six three- deckers of 120 guns, five of 110 guns, four of 90, three of 84, four of 80, two of 70, three of 30. five of 36, four of 44, six of 26, together with seventeen 16-gun brigs. The whole cost - of these, and other vessels, amounted to 1,668,4601. He had one other observation to make with respect to the Albion, which was, that when she came info port, having been only a year out, and but a short time at her waterways and diminish ing plank were so open, that wood was obliged to be driven in between her seams before she waicoppered, to such an extent that one hundred shipwrights and apprentices were at work on her in Plymouth Dock yard for seven days, which was equivalent to seven hundred men. He now came to a most impor tant question of naval construction, that of steam-boats. Up to 1831 they had only a few steamers of low tonnage, but in that year steam began to make a great progress, and the Government found it absolutely neue , siry to do something. At the time the Lord High Admiral was in office, he (Sir C. Napier) took it on himself to write him a letter on the subject, from which, if the House would permit him, he would quote. lie said, as it was uncertain whether the various experiments then trying would succeed, he should recommend a vessel 30 feet wide, 150 long, and 18 deep. She ought not to be so fine as a man-of-war, nor to carry so much fuel. She should consume 22 tons of coals a day. The engines and the boilers should be secured against shocks. He recommended that the wheel should not be so broad as usual ; and though in that case the vessel would not go fast in the river Thames, it would, in rough weather, be under complete command. Now he (Sir C. Napier) had seen the Admiralty go on building, tor the last fifteen or sixteen years, steamboats without any bottom at all, and in which the engines and boilers were so exposed as to IN entirely unfit for war. When the Right Hon Baronet came into office, he had, very much to his credit, taken up steam. When Sir Thos. Hardy got into the Admiralty, he naturally concluded that there would be no difficulty in carrying out his views, but he had been disappointed, for the same system was continued. The building of the steam ve.sels had cost the country 359,585/. ; the fitting-up and machinery nearly the same amount. He did think that when they proceeded to lay out such an enormous sum, they should have paid the greatest possible attention to the construction of the vessels. All those imperfections of which he complained in the construction of man-of-war steamers, were attributable to the surveyors of the navy, for they had been built upon the principle applied to the construction of sailing vessels, without any consideration of the groat difference that existed between the two classes of vessels. There was also some blame attachable to the engineers ; but he principally blamed the Board of 4dmiralry for not con- EVENING, F_EIIIIITARY 14, 1b45 - sidering maturely the manner in which they should had become bad by reason of th e d r y ro t h av i ng gi t i n t o th em , , have their war steamers constructe d ; and he had no and many of them had been ordered to be cut down, and were hes;tation whatever in saying, that not on e o f th ose w a r found to nave made very exce ll ent f r i gates . Wh et h er t hi s was steamers, after havisig cost all this money, was fit to take a prudent course er not, he would not pretend to say. but when her place as a man-of-war, or had in her construction it was done there was nothing to pi event the authorities of the smallest protection from, an adversary. In fact, the whichfrom engines and beams that worked the engines were so a c nffe s would wish to e cfr a aw ra t a h t e e attention a ai against the e the d m i ta l o t s y to Board, e that h day placed, that the first shot fired into one of them from first of those charges that applied to the present Boa a rd, be an enemy's ship, would destroy both boilers and engines, cause ne did not feel that he was bound to defend the acts of and blow her up. The beam that worked the engines that Board before he and his colleagues came into office.-- was on the top of the cylinder, sl that the first shot ( Hear, hear.) He would begin, then, with the period when fired at it, would blow up the ship. Whereas, if those he did come into office, and he would premise by requesting of war steamers had been built of a sufficient depth, and the House to consider the position in which be and his col the engines and boilers placed below the water, the leagues were placed at that time, in reference to the Navy works would be so far safe ; and if the Board of Admi airo, hear.) Every one was aware of Board, and particu larly in reference to their position with Sir rally had so ordered the construction of them, he bad no Wi lli am Y therefore, if the first act of therengeawrd ß t o o lu t i hat gentleman' ttll and, t. doubt but that every engineer in the country would sa the feeling that S ymon ds.—( H ear, ships then in course of building under w a s the diorecsta a ll Sir it could be done. He also found that in the mode of taking in coals, those vessels were equally defective, and William Symonds, would it not be said that he had not been inconveniently contrived.—( Hear.) These observations, treated as he deserved.—( Hear.) Many of the most excellent he begged it to be understood. applied to corvettes, which and valued officers in the navy considered that that officer had were commanded by commanders. He now came to an- done the navy and the service very great benefit.—( Hear. ) other class—namely, steam-frigates. The first he would But the Gallant Officer opposite and the House should recollect mention was the Gorgon, which cost the country 28,000/ that when he ( Sir G. C.) came into office, the Queen, with press of being built, and when she was completed, the Adrni to construct ; yet she was 1,200 tons heavier than a 46- which the Gallant Officer had found so much fault, was in pro gun sailing vessel; she had no means of firing guns from ( Hear.) She went to the Mediterranean • and the next the l rally Board sent her to sea, in order to try her power.— her main-deck, so that if she should be chased by a supe rior vessel to-morrow, she had no means of using more , class,th at she except had theth the advantage vaogoard .o f Thata ll the e ther aves sel Tehr adal salso vessels been e o the Board heard of her was, that she was 'y excellent ship, and than one gun to defend herself. When this vessel was put in the water it was found that she had this defect 1 and then, indeed, it was said that she was never by Sir William Symonds; and he (Sir G. C.) would ask, intended to carry guns on her main deck. In answer would it have been just in the Board when they came in to have ordered am e to that, all he would say was, that if she was so in- stopped her?—(Hear.) But here let him say, in defence of tended, she could not carry 4hein; and if she was not, the present Admiralty, that when they did come in, they re those who built her knew nothing about it.—(Hear and solved not to build any more until those in progress should laughter.) Well, the Board of Admiralty, having seen have been completed and tried--( Hear)---and when they had their mistake in respect to this vessel, it was to be ex- f li tt e r ag er of bo tt o sor o t f of ol ns t s e el the Albion was, they stopped the ported they would try to correct it in the next. But G. C. ) came into o ffi ce,ttheotelt'eairs.i—l( Hear .) 3oatd When ho ( Sir what was their next step? The next vessel they built ing the slightest disrespect to Sir t k l ar ragmoncle,,orwtoithoouesttimoneaa; was the Cyclops, which cost 27,000 e ; she, like the merits in the least, resolved to form a committee of all the Gorgon, had rings and ports, &c., for main• deck guns, most talented masters of ships, to whom they gave directions and yet, when she was launched, she was found to have to report to them upon the best mode of arming the sterns and the very same defects as the Gorgon.—(Hear, hear, prows of those vessels.—( Hear.) That report was made, and and a laugh.) In order that the Cyclops might look laid before the Surveyor-General of the Board, and he cer beautiful on the water, her lower ports had to be caulked tainly did differ from much that it contained. —(Hear. ) With up. and instead of being able to carry four guns on her regard to the Queen being so defe _five as the Gallant Officer main deck, she could not carry one.—(Hear. hear.) opposite had stated, he (Sir G. C.) begged to say that the rea- He had no hesitation in saying that if these vessels were son she was put into dock and altered was, because the surveyor had stated that the reason sh e was so d e f ect i ve was b ecause s h e properly constructed, they would be able to fight two , ruid those ons, and, therefore she got y th could two in the quarters. The tonnage of the whole of these to remedy any other defect i ve vessels, and with this view they vessels was 12,872 tons, and the whole amount of cost had selected three of the best naval architects they could find was 290,0221. There was the Firebrand, of 1,190 tons ; to examine all the other vessels said to be defective, to report the Gladiator, of 1,210 tons ; the Samson, of 1,299 tons ; upon their faults, and to take mire that those faults should be the Scourge, of 1,190 tons—all of them in the same avoided in all future vessels.—(Hear, hear.) He did not category with the steam corvettes that he had men- mean to say that the officers employed by the present Board tioned. Not one of them had any main-deck guns —not of Admiralty were superior to those they had succeeded, sad it was but fair of him to say that Sir W. Symonds was inferior one of them had ports fit fur stern guns. It was, be confessed, astonishing to him—he could not understand to hod in o Te a of them.—(Hear, hear. ) o hear He s that MreW(hTtier G. s Cockburn) how it was possible, when the Board of Admiralty had s s u erio'r q t u t alifica sa ; t u> e ns ti rn e office, o ffi ce, and had done one of the plans and models laid before them of ships, most extraordinary feats in improving a vessel, that, whether men-of-war or sti , arci- ships, that they perhaps, had ever been heard of The Board hid could omit asking the constructor where were his how- picked out a 42-gun ship, and cut off her bowie guns, and where were his stern-guns. " I see your and Mr. White was employed to put new bows to her, drawings and your models, but Ido not see a single ship and in this he had succeeded so well, that the vessel, upon, with two guns at its head or at its stern." He admitted being sent out on trial, performed her voyage without letting they had two bow-ports, but he should like to see the in any water, which was a very desirable perfection.—(Hear. man who could work them. It was almost impossible to hear.) Again, he would say, that the Board deserved credit do so. Certainly it could not be done with efficiency. for not doing anything likely to wound the feelings of Sir W. The last vessel constructed was t'ie Retribution. She - Symonds, by being in too great a hurry to upset the works was an enormous vessel, of 1,641 tone, b -ing nearly as they found g o i ng on w hen they cause into office.—(Hear, large as their old line-of battl e ship s . N ow , wou ld the r.) In the meantime, if the Admiralty should find that defects existed in the Albion and the Queen, and the other House believe it—she was to carry only one gun on a vessels on the stocks, care would be taken that they should be pivot mule for it. The necessity of carrying a few germs made good ships of.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to what had never entered into the heads of those who built her, and, been said by an Hon. Member, in reference to shipwrights' instead of carrying her engines sufficiently low,she was even apprenticeship, the Board had resolved to pay every attention more exposed than smaller vessels. Her paddles plunged to that subject also. It had been observed that the whole of under water forty inches. She was without a single this subject ought to be referred to a Committee of the House gun on her main deck or on her stern. He was perfectly of Commons. Now, he begged to say, that his impression assured that if she had been only 500 tons, she would was, that such a Committee would be the very worst authority M which such a subject could be referred. He could assure the have bean better than she was at present. As to main- Gallant Of fi cer and the House that the Admiralty Board would deck ports, they were not even thought of, and she take up the subject, and bestow upon it all the attention in plunged most violently when she went to Chatham. He t h e i r power, and devote their best energies towards remedy. would now come to the last ship of all, the Terrible. ing all defects ; and if they . were found to be incompetent which was built by Mr. Lang. She was a vessel of to do so, then it would be their duty to resign their o ffi ce to 1,840 tons, and was certainly the best steam-vessel in the Gallant Officer opposite, or to any one else whom the the navy. After commencing with sharp-bottomed ves- House and the country might deem better fitted to discharge sels, the Admiralty were obliged to listen to the remon- their duties.—( Hear, hear.) Then, with regard to what had strances which were made ; and the Surveyor of the been said by the Gallant Officer about sailing-ships ; the Gal- Navy, who would not listen to any suggestions, instead last Offi c er could not be more anx ious to avoid defects in those of aeknowledwing at once that sharp bottoms were not the v sa ls m a e lso,than the navy Board ; b to to those vessels also seobservations applied as e steam-vessels, namely, fit for steamers, was gradually but slowly approaching that most o f them had been contracted for before the present to the flat-bottom system. But would the House believe Board came into office.—( Hear, hear.) The present Board that this large and superior vessel had only twelve guns had no intention to put guns on the main-deck of war on the main-deck—six before and six abaft; and though steamers, for if they were fitted up with guns, it would ma he admitted that they could put guns in her bows, it terially retard their progress. His impression was that those would be impossible for any person to work them. She vessels should have their funs to disposed of as to enable had not a single stern gun on the main deck. He did h teem, when they took their stations, to fire upon the enemy not know the number of steam-vessels cn the stocks, or with perfect a impunity.—( Hear.) Lose He did not a pp rove o f how far advanced they were ; but vwhatever state they plxtt v i a l to ante por guns t t hey shouli v i es a ls 'ke f p o t r i t t their were in, it was mush b e tt er t o p u ll th em t o pi ece s than of proper work .—( Hear, hear.) The Admiralty w ere now en proceed with them in their present state. The money— gaged in building some iron vessels, and they had m a d e it a sinethe enormous sums of mone y— e xpended in building qua non with the contractors, that each of these vessels them, might as well be thrown to the winds. If they should have the power of firing two guns on her main-deck went to war, they would find that steam-boats were no forward, and two aft.—( Hear, hear.) He did not know that more to the navy than cavalry were to the army. Two it would be necessary for him to detain the House any longer; cavalry regiments might as well be sent against one an- but, in conclusion, he would say that he knew what the other for an afternoo n ' s am usement, as two steam- strength of the French navy was, and he knew what that of boats. Their proper use was harassing the England was, and he was happy to be in a position to state that the naval force of England was much better and larger enemy's rear, and how could they do that, than that ofno twithstandingallthatsaid when they had no guns to po i nt at them ? the t. t ic Hear,hear.) He had seen them all with:his own eyes, and could speak I}ll !ark . Captain teo S conceived that the navy and the country of the manner in which they had been designed. The were greatly indebted to the Hon. and Gallant Member who other use for steam-boats was to cover a retreat. If a had introduced this subject to the House.—( Hear, hear.) squadron were retrt ating, steam-boats would be found He would also admit that the Hon. Baronet on the Treasury useful to cover its rear, and if steam-boats were sent in Bench had done good service to the country by upsetting pursuit vessels of the same construction could best con- the Royal Naval College.—(Hear, hear.) As to what tend with them, hut how could our steam-boats do so had been said about _vessels built _with _round sterns, when slier had no guns pointed to the stern. there • appeared to have been at one time a mania Sir G. COCKBURN—There are. for constituting vessels in that way, and millions of money Sir C. NAPIER—On the main-deck? were thus expended, and it could not have been more uselessly Sir G. COCKBURN—was silent. employed He had commanded a corve t te , an d ot h er vessels, so Sir C. NAPIER proceeded. He had been told he looked at built, and he could say that not a vessel in the service with a the state of the navy with a jaundiced eye. Such was not the round stern could fire a stern gun, because the muzzle o f case. He stated bread facts, which, upon inquiry, would be the sun could never be brought sufficiently close to the port. found perfectly true. On the main -deck, he i epeated, not one. —( Hear, hear.) And yet he f e l t sat i s fi e d t h at near l y one. —e Hear, hear.) Let the members of the H ouse o f C ommons eighth of the national debt had been incurred by building go down and view them, and they would at once see that the vessels on this defective plan.—( Hear, hear.) Yet the same guns could not be effectually worked on the main -deck, and if bad system was going on, and the result would be that those they did not, after a careful inspection, agree with him, he vessels never could go to sea.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. would never again talk about the navy. He was sorry for Member next alluded to abuses existing in the practices of th e having troubled the House at so much length, but felt it his dock. yard o ffi cers; for when th e Admiralty Board ordered a duty to do so. All he asked for was a Committee. —( Hear.) report of the defects of a vessel, a sum nearly double that ne- Had they succeeded in their mode of ship-building ?If not, it cessary was always set forth in the report as that re should be charged, and the best ascertained and acted upon ; quisite for the purpose, and the Admiralty had no possible if they had, why let it be continued. He preferred asking for means of knowing whether it was too much or too little. a Commission to inquire into the whole system of naval con- He merely mentioned these facts, because he thought no struction. But gentlemen better acquainted with the rules surveyor ought to be allowed to build models until they had and customs of the House were of opinion that this was been certified by a scientific man.—( Hear, hear.) Premiums the more eligible mode, as by making it a money should be given to the gentleman who produced the best model, question he had more chance of obtaining a Committee. and the field for supplying them thrown open to competition. He did not care whether it was a Committee or a Commission If they wanted to build steamers, let them go to the builder of —they were now going to build a large number of steam-boats, the Great Britain, or Mr. Napier, and not confine themselves and he asked the House not to grant one shilling until the con- to gentlemen brought up in the royal dock yards, whose educe dition of the steam navy was fully and thoroughly inquired tion was generally very circumscribed. He had commanded into. He knew this was not a very palatable subject, though every species of brig-corvette, and he could say, without fear from the manner in which the House had heard him, he had of contradiction, that none of them were fit to go to sea. They no reason to think so ; but a sense of dutf i compelled him to might be splendid vessels, but really he never could di scover an y speak out the whole truth as he found it . e felt satisfied that remarkable beauty about them. What he had been saying for if the public press had not taken up the question of the state the last ten or twelve years, he was still compelled to repeat, be of the navy in the manner it had done, it would have been use- it ever so tedious or unpleasant. He had remarked, and every less for him to have attempted to bring the matter forward. other good seaman who went before him had done the same, During the last twenty years, he bad repeatedly called the at- that Sir William Symonds' ships were total failures. His first tention of those in p ower to the subject ; in fact, he had a larg . vessel was the Flying Fish, and everybody connected with the book full of correspondence, but up to the present momen the navy was aware of its utter inefficiency for hard ser had never been able t o get them to listen to a single suggestion vice, or, in fact, service of any sort. Their three-deckers he had made.—( Hear, hear.) He had met with the greatest were failures, solely because they made them without flat floors. courtesy from the Gallant Officer opposite. He had no party Yet the Admiralty still persisted is building them without this feeling on this subject.—( Hear, hear.) He never introduced appendage, an act of which he had often heard it said, no man his politics into naval inquiries—he was only guided by a sense in his sober senses would be guilty. Sir William Symonds' of what was due to the public, and only hoped to have th e p u bli c first frigate, he admitted, was a magnificent ship. She money advantageously expended. The House ought to grant had some remarkably Eno . points about her, but this Committee. He thought they were bound, out of regard she was exceedingly sharp in _the water, and in for the members of the present naval administration, and for many other respects defective. But perhaps some of Sir their predecessors, and in justice to the Surveyor of the Navy, Wm. Symonds' friends would say he had introduced improve. and to the First Lord of the Admiralty, to accede to his mo. ments of late. Now, he was prepared to assert that the Snake, tion.—( Hear, hear.) It would then be seen whether they had which he built a short time back, was equally as bad a ship— been libelled or not. B e f o re a Committee he would undertake having the same defects as the Flying Fish, which he built so to prove every thing h e h a d s t a ted. The Gallant Commodore far back as ten years ago. He was conscious of the defects in sat down amid much cheering, having again thanked the House theso ships when he held a post in her Majesty's service, but it for the attention they had given him, and read the motion, would have been a source of great annoyance as well as incon which was as follows :—" A Select Committee to inquire into venience to him if he had ventured to s peak his mind upon the the manner in which the mon ey voted since the year 1835 for subject then. The Admiralty appeared to look upon a confes the construction of ships has been expended, and if the ships siert of this sort as a personal reflection upon them, and this de constructed are an improvement of the old system." terred many of her Majesty's officers from speaking their Mr. HUME seconded the motion. The Hon. and Gallant minds on the subject. They were identified with Sir William Officer had challenged inquiry—he (Mr. Hume) thought he Symonds, and no doubt had determined to sink or swim with him. was entitled to it. He thought the country would not feel Ten years had however elapsed, since the time he spoke of, but satisfied unless a full and searching inquiry were made. He did little or no change had taken place. Certainly, the Administration not think, however, the present time was as proper for inquiry had changed,hut their successors had unfortunately been upward s as on a previous occasion, when those great changes in the of three y e ars making up their minds as to the merits of one naval condition of the country were made. He thought the of Sir William Symonds' frigates. They had been all this Right Hon. Baronet opposite had a great deal to answer for. while endeavouring to discover if she was a fast vessel, and y e t On the 29th of June, 1832, the Right Hon. Baronet used an they had not come to any decision. But the cause of this was expression which had often been quoted, and which was still plain enough. If, when be was in the service, he had b een fresh in his (Mr. Hume's) memory. He said that naval cap- sent out to Malta with a ship, with specific orders to report tains were more competent to fill the office of surveyors of the upon her sailing upon a magnificent breeze, what would have navy than any other men, as much as to say that science was of become of him if he had reported unfavOurably ? Why, he no use in the construction of ships. The present question was would have been plain Mr. Rous at this moment, instead of one of the greatest importance in a national point of view. The Captain Rous.—(Laughter.) Sir William Symonds' ships greatest commercial country in the world should have the most had, from this very reason, been described as superior vessels powerful and effective engines at sea. England was then, and in every respect. He did not wish to be understood as finding had always been, very backward in the application of science to fault with Sir W. Symonds, because he was quite aware that it ship-building. So defective was: the construction of ships was by the direction of the Admiralty that he expended during the war, that we were obliged to imitate millions in the building of these defective ships. Nor was it the construction of those French. Spanish, and even his fault that the vessels were defective. He was not brought Swedish and Danish vessels, which we captured. up to the profession of a ship-builder, and was by no means a Surely it was the British who should have set the example in scientific man. But why could not the Admiralty d ec id e a t ship-building, seeing that not only our maritime and rummer - once upon the merits of the Queen? The answer he had cial greatness depended upon our naval superiority, but even was, " there is no wind." w What, no wind ?" At one time our safety.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman then he was sure it was plentiful, but now they bad a difficulty of quoted from the Third Report of the Commissioners appointed finding a good breeze between the West Indies and Lisbon.— to inquire into the affairs of the navy, which stated that naval (Laughter.) It really was too bad. Here had they been architecture had advanced to greater perfection, and been more three years trying this model, and still they had not come to a cherished among the French than among any other people ; decision, nor were they likely to arrive at any in another that little attention was paid to it in this country; and that the three years. He was as anxious as any one to French employed men of the greatest talent and ability in the know the truth, and he was confident, if they construction of ships, whilst we contented ourselves with creep- would give proper directions, a gale of wind would very soon ing on in the dark, in quest of such discoveries as chance might be found. —( Hear, hear, and laughter.) With respect to the throw in our way. In consequence of the recommendation of future, what the Admiralty wanted, was an active man like a Committee, a school for naval architecture was established, Sir W. Symonds, for he certainly was an active man, to in• but, in 1832, the First Lord of the Admiralty abolished the sped what was going on in the dockyards.—( Hear, hear.) system, and the greatest injustice had been done to the mem- This would put an end to the present waste and lavish ex bers of it, who were never allowed to fill those stations which penditure. Sir William Symonds would be a useful man to it was originally intended they should fill, and for which their them in this way, but if they allowed him to lay down his abilities qualified them. They had been taught algebra, lines and build ships upon them, the defects complained of trigonometry, fluctions, the calculus, and, is short, the whole would never be remedied. Let him lay down other men's system of mathematics, and were to have entered the most lines if they would, and then there would be a pos subordinate offices in the navy, rising gradually to higher sihility of his building an efficient seaworthy vessel. offices as they merited. Such men would have been acquainted He had little more to remark, but, at all events, not only with the whole system of naval tactics, but would have whether the Hon. and Gallant Commodore succeeded with his been able to suggest improvements founded upon motion or not, he was sure it would be productive of great their scientific and practical knowledge.—( Hear, hear.) public benefit.—(Hear, hear.) He expected it would receive A great deal of money had been thrown away in remodelling more support from the other side of the House than his. old ships—it would hare been much cheaper to have built new There was much more public Spirit on the Opposition side, and ones, than continually tinkering with those built upon an en. the navy had always looked dpon them as their friends in that tirely different construction. He first thought the Commission House. If, in his warmth, be had given utterance to any preferable, he would most willingly assent to it, but he would expression calculated to hurt the feelings of any member at all events second with much pleasure the motion of the of the Board of Admiralty, he could only express Hon. and Gallant Commodore. his regret for it. He naturally took a great interest Sir GEORGE COCKBURN said his Gallant Friend op- in the subject. He had left the service, because he would not posits had begun his statement by going so far back as the year countenance the principle which had guided the Board, and he tBO6. Now it wasnothis (Sir G. Cockburn's) intention to follow need hardly sa -he still felt as deeply on the matter. him through the whole of that statement, nor would he be able Mr. C. WOOD did not think this discussion would to do so if he were inclined, neither would he seek to defend be productive of any great advantage to the navy, certain defects in vessels to which he had alluded. But this nor did he believe an inquiry would produce those he would beg of the Gallant Officer and the House to remem- beneficial results which some Han. and Gallant Members ber, that during a great portion of the time of which the Gallant seemed to anticipate. He must say the subject was so en- Officer had been speaking, the art of ship-building was by no tangled with technicalities that it was quite impossible for the means so perfect as it had become of late.—( Hear, hear.) He House to comprehend it. It would be quite unintelligible to could not deny that the class of vessels which the Gallant most Hon. Members, and for th s reason, he could not agree Officer had found fault with, were of a very bad description . ) to the motion. But the Hon. and Gallant C ommo dore bad Forty-gun brigs bad since been deemed unworthy; they' advanced little or nothing to 'ustify au inquiry being insti- W ed. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman related the ex perience he had had since 1800 down to 1830, and he con demned every class of vessels but the 120 gun-ships as being utterly useless. The 74 and the 64-gun ships he pronounced were useless ; the 36 and 28- gun f r i gates were little better. The 18-gun brigs and 16-gun sloops were defective, and, in fact, he condemned them all down to the ten-gun sloops. But the whole and sole object of the attack was Sir William Symonds, and of course the eight or nine classes of vessels built by that gentleman were all defective. One Hon. Gentleman, how ever, a'lmitted that the Vernon answered perfectly well, and the twenty-six-gun ships and sixteen-gun brigs were ex c,edingly beautiful. All the ships which had been built on Sir William Symonds' principle, since 1835, had been uni versally approved by the officers of the navy. The Hon. and Gallant Officer (Sir C. Napier) had himself admitted that there was a considerable difference between the bow of Sir William Symonds' last ship and that of his first. Why, this at least proved that he was ready to adopt any improvements which were calculated to benefit the service. —( Hear.) With regard to the Queen, the Hon. and Gallant Officer said that six Queens were laid down by order of the late Board o Admiralty. He did not Hui( that statement was quite borne out. This vessel was launched in 1839 ' • and for the first three years all the re p or t s w ith regar d to her were extremely favourable. The Hon. and Gallant Officer had made many assertions on the subject; whether he was warranted or not in his assertions, he could not say; but the official documents were so nr, favour of the Queen, that four other vessels of the same character had been laid down, and though they had since been stopped, he maintained that the documents justified the Board in the course which they pursued. With regard to the Albion, although the Hon. and Gallant Officer said that she was not able to fire her guns, the report stated that she was a very stiff ship and sailed better than any other in the squadron. —( Hear, hear.) The fifty-gun frigate, the twenty-six.gnn frigate, and the eighty-gun ship had each received favourable testimony from the Hon. and Gallant officer himself; and he had read a most favourable report of the 110-gun ship and the 90-gun ship whilst in the Mediterranean. Each class had, in fact, received his ap proval. Yet, after condemding universally every class of ships built before 1835, he now called on the House to condemn the Board of Admiralty for their condust with respect to ships whose mode of construction had received from him the most favourable testimony which it was possible for ships to receive. —( Hear, hear.) With respect to the question of expense, it certainly appeared to be established that a clear saving had been effected. He really did not know on what earthly ground the motion was to be sup ported. With regard to the steamers he would only re mark that at the time when he (Mr. C. Wood) left the Admiralty, all the steamers constructed were more or less experimental. He did not think, in fact, that it was possible at present for any person to give a clear and decided opinion either as to the effect which steam navigation would have, or the best made of arming and constructing steam-vessels.— ( Hear.) Some time must elapse before any opinion could be formed. The whole system of steam navigation was in a course of experiment; and feeling confident that no effort would be spared by the Board of Admiralty to do all that was necessary for the safety and security of the country in any future war, he would willingly leave the question in their hands. Admiral BOWLES said he should not have risen but for the allusion made to himself by the Hon. and Gallant Officer who had introduced this subject, and also by the Hon. and Gal lant Member for Westminster. The complaint made against him by these two Hon. Members was, that he did not find a gale of wind, or stay out to meet it. That he did not find it, was certainly not his own fault.—( Laughter.) Why he should stay out at the risk of injuring valuable masts aiad in curring a damage of several thousand pounds, merely to have bad weather, he could not possibly conceive. —(Hear, hear.) He was surprised to hear old sailors talk in such a manner. With regard to the Albion, he must say that he believed when at sea she would not be found to roll more than other ships of the same elass.—( Hear, hear.) As to her not fight ing her guns when other ships would do so, he believed that any apprehension on that subject would turn out to be un founded. As far as it was safe to hazard an opinion with re spect to the Queen, he would state that it was his conviction, that when tried again, after a few alterations, she would be found a safe and fast-sailing vessel. He could not conclude without taking that opportunity of reminding the House what a debt of gratitude they owed to the members of the Yacht Club, who, having devoted themselves to the truly British amusement of yacht sailing, had, from their position and influence, exercised a very beneficial influence upon the improvement of naval architecture. Two amongst those gentlemen deserved special honour and respect. One of them was Lord Vernon, who unhappily had not survived to witness the benefit of those improvements to which he had so greatly contributed ; the other was the Duke of Portland.—( Hear, hear.) Before Sir William Symonds was allowed to build his first ship, the Columbine, Lord Vernon actually gave his personal guarantee to the Admiralty that in the event of failure he would defray the whole expense. He thought that such persons were well entitled to the gratitude of the whole country. With respect to Sir William Symonds, he believed that the Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department never did greater service to the country than by appointing him to the office which he ao wor thily filled; and with whatever calumnies and misrepresentations he might be assailed, he felt convinced when Sir W. Symonds retired from office, he would have the proud satisfaction of knowing that he had contributed, perhaps, more titan any other officer in the British navy, to the improvement of that branch of the public service.—( Cheers. ) Capt. PECHELL said that, however good the construction of the shi,;_ be, still there was reason to complain cf the mode in which they were tried. He fully concurred in the praise accorded to Sir Wm. Symonds; but that was altogether a different question from the one raised by his Honourable and Gallant Friend. He could not help complaining that when a ship of the old construction had been im proved in her bow, and made a most valuable vessel, in the last year, she was sent to the Gallant Admiral then in command on the Irish station, and for nine months she lay in the Shannon, to assist in the collection of the poor-rates.— ( Laughter. ) He had observed the experiment with great anx lay, and the result was that he was convinced of the efficiency of the Rattler. He hoped that, whatever determination the Government came to with respect to the employment of the Arehimedian screw, and the ordinary paddles, they would look carefully to the experiments that had been made. Mr. CORRY said, the motion of the Hor.. and Gallant Officer implied an indirect censure upon the Board of Ad miralty, of which, he could assure the House, they were most undeserving, for to no one branch of their public duties had they devoted more anxious attention than to the improve ments in the construction of our ships of war. When her Majesty's present Administration entered upon office, they found nineteen ships-of-the-line building, or ordered to be built ; and the whole of those ships were upsn the lines of the Surveyor-General of the Navy. If, therefore, they had hesitated at continuing the building of those ships, they must have abandoned altogether the building of the vessels in course of construction in the dockyards ; and how could they have justified such a proceeding? It was true that, at that time, only one of the Surveyor-General's ships had been at sea—the Vanguard ; but he held in his hand the highest testimonial: as to her capabilities. In July, 1836, the Honourable Captain D. P. Bouverie reported that " on all occasions her working was admirable and sur possed our fullest expectations ; and I have no doubt that she will prove herself to possess every good quality, and that she is a perfect man-of-war." Captain Martin of the Caledonia, said, " The Vanguard hauled out of the line just like a cutter, and went away to windward of the whole squad ron, and was six miles on our weather-beam in three hours and a-half." He (Mr. Corry) was also in possession of other reports relative to the qualities of the Vanguard, and he be lieved it would be admitted that she was a most excellent man-of-war. Shortly after the present Ministry came into office, the Queen was commissioned and sent to sea, and in structions were given that her qualities should be tested. She was tried on several occasions, and, on the sth of June, 1842, Sir Edward Owen wrote—" I have called for the reports of the qualities of the several ships, and hope to have them for enclosure in this letter. In the meantime I may say that so far as my own observations went, no one of the ships, except the Vanguard, could compete with her Majesty's ship, the Queen, whether in easiness of motion, or in sailing. She does not so well answer under low sail, but bears pressing with her canvass, and answers to it by her power. I have no difficulty in pronouncing the Queen a ship superior to all three-deckers, and to most of those with two decks." Captain Rich, of the Calcutta, also wrote on the 6th of June, 1842 : ___. brought this subject under the consideration of the House: A good deal had been said about the building of ships, but it was much easier to point out objections than to show how they were to be built. He did not think the Gallant Commodore would gain the object he had in view, even if his motion were carried ; but he was of opinion, that there ought to be some in quiry into the subject, and that a Commission should be ap pointed.—( Hear, hear.) He did not think that the Admiralty could give, with the other duties they had to perform, sufficient attention to the subject. He approved of a great deal of what Sir Wm. Symonds had done, though he had failed in some things. With regard to the armament of frigates, he thought it was a fault not to suit the weight of metal to the quantity of timber. For instance, there were the Winchester, and the Pique, two frigates now in commission. The former was of 1.636 tons, and had thirty-six guns of 32-pounders. The latter was of 1,436 tons, being 200 less than the other, and she carried 52 guns of a smaller calibre, and any person, upon referring to the naval history of the country, would see that where the number of guns and their weight were propor tioned to the timber of the vessel, she was more effective than when that proportion was not kept up. The same was observ able with regard to the Carnatic and the Belvidere. The !'ormer was a 26 -gun ship of 32-pounders, and of WO tons ; the latter carried 42 gu ns , ma ki ng a difference of 16 guns, while there was only a difference of 35 in the tonnage. He looked with satisfaction to the efforts which were now making to increase the naval fore, and steam navigation of the country. Mr. WAKLEY said that the House ought to be indebted to his Hon. and Gallant Friend for bringing this motion before the House. He was entitled to its gratitude, and whether he failed or not, his labours en this question would entitle him to, and he would receive the gratitude of, the public. That subs ject had been discussed almost ever since lie had a seat in the House, and it was always made a sham question by official persons on both sides of the House. It was now time that the subject should be seriously considered, for it was one in which the public took the greatest possible interest. The navy was the favourite service of the people of England, and no man would refuse his share of any reasonable expenses to keep it in an efficient state. His lien. and Gallant Friend had shown, in his own and peculiar language, that several ships had been seriously damaged, but there was one vessel, called " The Admiralty,"—( Laughter)—which he did not believe would recover from the damage it had received on this occa sion, unless those who manned it made inquiries how so much money had been wasted in building ships which were declared to be not fit for service. What had been said by the Hon. and Gallant Member for Westminster had perfectly astonished him. He said that ships had been built in the dock-yards, which cost a tenth—he said it first, and then an eighth—of the national debt, in building ships which had never gone to sea, and were never fit to go to sea. He said that that statement perfectly astonished him, coming as it did from the Hon. and Gallant Captain, who had rendered such great services to his country—whose name would be respected wherever it was known—who always spoke his mind freely, and said what he thought on every subject to which he gave his attention. The allegations and arguments he put forward would make their impression out of doors, whatever might be their effect in that House; hut he ( Mr. Wakley) was one of those who thought that the appointment of a Committee was not suitable to the emergency. He did not think that it would lead to any prac tical result, for there were none in that House who understood the subject except naval officers, and they, perhaps, would he jealous of each other, and th ere m i g h t be a powerthl firing of broadsides on each side of the table if they alone were; o compose the Committee. The Hon. and Gallant Captains aid he did not believe the Lords of the Admiralty would know one ship from another, or scarcely a three-decker from a New castle collier.—(Laughter.) If that were t h e care with respect to Lords of the Admiralty, how much worse with those who had no connexion with naval matters. The Hon. Gen tleman the Secretary to the Admiralty, who had been pro meted from a Lord to a Secretary, had sought permission which he could not very well understand, to have those things left with them. Why those things had been left to the Admiralty long enough. The Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Halifax, got up and spoke in defence of the existing Board. Why, to be sure he did. He had been Secretary to the Admiralty himself. There was always an understanding between the official ins and outs.— (Laughter.) He did not mean to say that there was any re gular compact between them, but the thing was understood. This subject was too important to be understood to be got rid of in this way, after the statement made by officers who had ob tained so much renown, and whose names were identical with the glory of this country. When the public understood the subject, they would require a full, a complete, and a searching investigation. The Hon. and Gallant Captain had alluded to the experiments made by the vessels built under Sir William Symonds, but he omitted to remark that the vessels which he butt, and were put upon:their trial, had not their full comple ment of stores and water, so that the vessels did not draw so much water as if they had their full complement, and, there fore, the experiment was not complete. The First Lord of the Admiralty addressed the House with regard to steamers, and he heard, for the first time, that they were to give such enormous sums for building steam-vessels which were only to carry three or four guns, two in ,their bows and two in their stern. Was that to be the case ? Why, supposing such steamers were to encounter those that had broadsides and guns, what would be the condition of their steamers?—( Hear.) Such was the idea which this country had of war-steamers. He had heard a naval officer state that the application of steam to ships would change the whole naval tactics of this country. The Hon. Gentleman on the other side of the House had laid great stress on what had been said by a foreign Admiral. Why, was it not natural that he should wish to increase the naval power of his own country? It was of course his object to make the naval power of this country appear as small as possible.— ( Laughter, and cries of " N o , no .") H e looked through the large end of the telescope, and saw our navy as small as he could.—(Laughter.) Yes, he looked through the large end of the telescope, and saw the navy of this country under the smallest aspect possible.—( Laughter, and cries of " That is not what you mean.") He looked through the large end, and saw our navy as small as he could.—( Continued laughter, and cries of " Try back.") He begged pardon; Hon. Gentlemen were right, and he was wrong. What he meant to say was, that the foreign officer saw the navy of this country in its real magnitude ; but he misrepresented its powet in his own country. He represented it as much as possible— making it appear larger than it really was, in order to induce his own country to exhibit all their national energy—te make exertions so as to compete with this country in the time of war. Now, he could place no re liance on such a statement, but it was the duty, the especial duty of Englishmen, to look to that force, which must be their security and the great pillar of their protection. —( Hear, hear.) Was it not an alarming fact that such large ships had been built at such an enormous cost, and such large sums of money squandered at a time, while it was stated by the Gallant Officer, they were not fit to encounter the " raging sea?" Was it not monstrous that they should have proceeded in this way for so long a period ? Something, he admitted, was done, but they had gone indeed but a small way in the right road. His Hon. Friend the Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) alluded to the aid of science in such a service as the navy, and he regretted that the school of naval architecture, which was so well calculated to educate persons for that parti cular purpose, had been destroyed. They had now no such school while they were to be found throughout the Continent. Considering how the country was situated, he was of opinion, as one of the public as well as a Member of that House, that hat there ought to be a searching inquiry into the state of the navy, and that there should be a close investigation, which he thought could be best made by a Royal Commis sion, composed of experienced persons, for the discharge of whose duties the Executive Government would be responsible. He should therefore advise his Hon. and Gallant Friend to withdraw his motion, because he was afraid if he pursued it to a division many persons would be placed in an unfavour able light out of doors, who, though they were of opinion that the inquiry was necessary, might yet vote against the motion of his Hon. and Gallant Friend, because, if carried, it would lead to no practical result. He might then give notice of a motion for an address to the Crown, to appoint a Commission for the purpose intended by the motion now before the House. Sir CHARLES NAPIER replied he had often heard the remark that such and such a person was good in debate, but he had never heard that a good debater had recourse to perverting the language of persons who spoke before him, and he had no hesitation in saying that the Hon. Member for Halifax had most completely perverted his language. The Hon. Gentleman said that he had condemned every class of ships built by other builders except the large class of three-deckers and the eigh teen-gun brigs. Now he most distinctly denied that. He said that all the three-decked ships except the ninety-eights and the nineties were good, that all the seventy-fours, the eighty-fours, and the eighties, were good, and even down to the sixty-fours, with the exception of the " forty-thieves ;" that the thirty-twos and twenty-twos were also good, but that the twenty-eight gun donkeys, and the ten-gun brigs were good for no• thing. He was, therefore, surprised that the Hon. Gentleman put words into his mouth which he had never used. The Gal lant Officer at the head of the Admiralty had also misunder stood him. He seemed to think that he was of opinion that the forty-thieves were in good condition,and that they ought not to have been cut down. Now he was just of the contrary opinion, for he thought the Gallant Officer had a perfect right to cut them down. The Gallant Officer had said that he had opened competition ; now he (Sir Charles Napier) must beg to differ with him upon that point, for he was satisfied that if the navy had been thrown open to public competition some years ago, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds would have been saved to the country. He considered that the Gallant Officer had so many duties now thrown upon him, that be would not be able to perform them all if he were eat in a dozen pieces. The Queen's yacht was a most imperfect vessel ; it could not be steered to within four or five points; and during the time her Majesty was on beard, she was not allowed to go more than six knots an hour; she was in fact, at the present moment, under going the same operations that the vessel called the Queen had undergone. There was not a single steam-boat in the possession of the Government that was worthy of the navy. He hoped they would come to a good steam-navy at last. The Gallant Officer opposite appeared to think that he was rather severe upon him ; he could assure him that he did not intend to be so. He would not trouble the House further, but he felt bound to say that unless the Government would cause some inquiry to be made on the subject, he must divide the House upon his motion. Mr. C. WOOD could assure the Hon. and Gallant Officer that it was not his intention to pervert the meaning of any thing he had stated. With respect to the comparison between this ship and the Queen, there can be no doubt, in my opinion, as to the supe riority of the latter in every point, namely, in sailing, working, stability, and weatherly qualities." This opinion he con sidered the more valuable as being given by the commander of a vessel which was placed in competition with the Queen ; and the House was well aware of the pride which naval officers generally felt in th e qua liti es o f th eir own s hi ps. H e (Mr. C,orry) had in his possession various other reports in which equally favourable opinions were given of the powers and capabilities of the Queen. On the ether hand, the Admiralty had no reports which would have justified them in suspending the building of the other vessels which were then in course of construction by the Surveyor-General But when the squadron commanded by his Hon. and Gallant. Friend behind him went to sea, the Admiralty did not wait to be reminded of their duty, but they at once ordered the construction of the ships of the Queen class and of the Albion class to be suspended, until the qualities of the Queen and the Albion had been efficiently tested ; and he hoped that, in the ensuing spring, ample opportunity would be afforded for ascer taining the powers and qualities of those ships. During the three years her Majesty's present advisers had been in office, they had ordered sixty-eight ships of various classes to be built, and of that number only twenty-nine were built under the direction of the Surveyor of the Navy, the remaining thirty , nine being built on the plans of other parties. They had now in progress four ships of the line, six frigates, six smaller vessels, and twenty-three steamers, not by the Surveyor of the Navy. The Admiralty were most anxious to avail themselves of all the talent and experience to which they could have recouse, for the improvement of our steam navy. ( Hear, hear.) He might observe that among these vessels which had been recently built, not by the Surveyor of the Navy, were four of the brigs which formed'part of the late ex perimental brig squadron ; and the result of that experiment had established the advantages of the new over the old method of shipbuilding, for every one of the new brigs had proved greatly superior to the cruizer. But the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Commodore had special reference to steam-ves sels ; and he believed the Hon. and Gallant Officer had stated that we had not one steam-ship of any character in our navy. The Hon. and Gallant Commodore must excuse him (Mr. Corry) as a civilian, for differing with him in opinion on this subject ; and he must beg the House to bear in mind thet nautical gentlemen were not quite unanimous in their opinions on the question, especially as to the construction of ships of war. The Hon. and Gallant Member (Sir Charles Napier) had stated that the French war-steamers were greatly superior to ours. [ Sir C. Napier here made an ob. servation across the table.) At all events, if the Hon. and Gallant Officer had not said so to-night, he had made the statement in private conversation. But the House would re collect that a paper appeared last year, which was attributed to an Illustrious and Gallant Admiral of the French navy, and in which the following passage occurred :—" When the Gorgon and Cyclops sailed from the ports of England, we were struck with their force as ships of war as well as with their admirable qualities as sea boats ; and we therefore evinced a laudable anxiety to procure designs and other data required for the reinforcement of our navy with vessels of a similar description. The attempt proved a complete failure, and there are not now in the whole French navy six steam-vessels that can be compared with those in the English navy. To form a notion of the actual force of this steam navy (the English) it is necessary to have observed how formidable is its armament, and with what care and skil . Sirangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when there appeared-- For the motion Against it . . , 32 93 Majority against the motion Mr. CHARLES HOPE obtained leave to bring in a 13111 for enabling the Commissioners of Greenwich Hospital to im prove a certain lane or street called Fisher-lane, in the parish of Greenwich, in the county of Kent, and for other purposes. Mr. CHARLES HOPE also moved for leave to bring in a Bill for enabling the Commissioners of Greenwich Hospital for grant leases of coals and m i nera l s f or f or t y - two y ea rs, ando I to making a railway or tram-r o ad f rom G ree nwich colliery Berwick-bridge. Mr. HUME objected to the Bill. Mr. HODSON HINDE entertained great objections to the Bill. Bill. He was sure if its provisions wer . e w w a n s wellan d appre ciated ciated it would never be brought forwa rd that Greenwich Hospital held large in the north of pon-Tweed, had u n d er r e England, one of which, near N er it some valuable seams of coal s. These mines had been w or k e d at a c. eons'',l Table loss, e but if a bette r communication c ou ld b e obtained between those mines and the.port of Londo n , t h at which had hitherto been a losing speculation wouli be come a most profitable one. He had no objection to the p arties obtaining the best access to a shipping place, but they were not entitled to „ ma to that House and call upon i t to grant them p o wers to make a railway, not for public purposes, but for the interest of private individuals. If he was correctly informed, every individual landowner along the line was opposed to it ; the lords of the manor, the Corporation of Berwick, and the Harbour Commissioners were opposed to it, as injurious to the trade of the port. The compuisory Powers sought by this Bill would enable the House to lay down this railway along the side of a public highway for a considerable distance. He did not think that the Commis sioners of the Hospital themselves were quite aware of the na ture of the Bill ; too much power and influence in such matters was often given to solicitors and others connected with stieh institutions. He was confident that if the Government had been informed of the nature of the Bill it would never have been brought forward, and he trusted the statements ful foresight everything has been studied. The English war steamers have not been built and warranted good for all de scriptions of service indiscriminately. In building them there has been but one thought, one object—war. They unite great speed and a powerful armament, with vast accommodation for troops." He (Mr. Corry) did not mean to say that we had attained anything like perfection in the construction of steam boats; but he believed that every new steamer launched exhi bited some improvements. A Gallant Officer opposite had re ferred to the long detention of the Rattler at Woolwich ; but he (Mr. Corry) was convinced that the experiments made upon that vessel had gone very far to test the merits of the screw. He must say that be thought all questions relative to the con. struction of our ships of war might safely be :eft in the hands of those who were constitutionally responsible for the conduct of naval affairs—( Hear, hear)—and he therefore f e lt it his duty to oppoe the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Officer Capt. HARRIS thought it was his d u t y , as a member of . the naval profession ,to thank the Gallant Commodore for haying against it would be inquired into by the Board of Having made these observations he should not think it his duty to take the sense of the House on the question. Mr. FOSTER quite agreed with the observations of the lion. Nember_opposite. lie was sure that if the measure had s been investigated it would never have bee ft.,."..4 Ile should like to know what would be th • • . / .2 ,5 "• respect to the present Bill ? The SPEAKER said that it would be t, mittee on Private Bills, to see that all the been complied with. If that had been don. .14tLt':,/„lit would be proceeded with precisely like any 0 • no advantage whatever was gained by the mallaktigirietShwap Bill was now introduced. Mr. FOSTER said, with the understanding that the Bill was to be referred to a Committee and undergo a full in vestigation he should be perfectly satisfied. But when in quired into it would be found that the objections to the measure were perfectly just. Mr. LIDDELL also anreed in the remarks that had been made against the Bill. It was an invasion of private rights, and he could not understand why a pnblic body like Greenwich Hospital should be allowed to carry a compulsory railway through private property (not for a public line, but one which the public could not, use) of a district where mining had been carried on for the last three hundred years, without the visual understanding with the proprietors of the land. He should oppose the second reading. unless he saw much stronger reasons for the measure than he did at present. Mr. HOI)GSON said it would be bette'r if the Hon. Member who introduced the Bill would withdraw it at once ; it would save the House the trouble of throwing it out on the second reading, which would undoubtedly he dune. Mr. BROTHERTON said the opposition to this Bill was one of the most extraordinary he had ever heard of. The epeech of the lion. Gentleman opposite, against the measure, had persuaded him that it. ought to be introduced. He sus pected that there was some private interest at work behind, against the measure. Mr. FOSTER declared that he had no private interest in the mater. Mr. COL (...F.TT said the Bill was also to empower the Com missioners to let their mines for a term of forty-two years. Nor was it meant that the Bill was t o g i ve the lessee*, 'of the Hospital the power of making the railway, or to the Com. missioners. Mr. C. HOPE was understood to say, to the Commis sinners, undoubtedly. Mr. COLLETT said, from the wording of the motion, it appeared to be the lessees. Mr. C. HOPE explained, that the opposition of the Corpo ration of Berwick only extended to carrying the railway be yond a certain paint ; they did not oppose it to a certain extent. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. EMIGRATION TO TRINIDAD. Mr. THORN ELY moved for a copy of the correspondence between Dr. Rolph and the Colonial Secretary, and between the Colonial Secretary and the Governor of Trinidad, relative to the appointment and remuneration of Dr. Rolph, in 1843, as the agent of the Government of Trinidad, for the removal of the coloured population of Canada to that colony. Mr. G. W. HOPE said that Pr. Rolph was engaged by the Governor of Trinidad to conduct the emigration, but no benefit was derived from his undertaking ; and no emigrants were bound by it. The salary he was to receive was •_'ool. a year, and the only question was, whether, as Dr. Rolph had returned from Canada earlier than wcs anticipated, he was entitled to 1001. or 200/. ? Mr. HUME asked what wa3 the date of Dr. Rohples appoint ment? Mr. G. W. HOPE said it was from the beginning of 1843, but Dr. Rolph, subsequent to that time, became connected will the North American Land Association, which became bankrupt, and Dr. Rolph did not return to Canada till his time had expired. The whole question was, whether he was to get. 1007. to which he was not entitled. Mr. HUM E—He has got too much._( Laughter. ) The return was then agreed to. The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave to bring in a Bill for the appointment and payment of constables and officers fur keeping the peace near public works in Scotland. On the motion of Mr. CARDWELL, the following Mem• b . ers were appoi n t e d a S e l ec t C omm i ttee, to ass i st t h e S pea k er matters which relate to the printing executed by order of this House, and for the purpose of selecting and arranging for printing returns and papers presented in pursuance of motions made by Members of this House, which may be referred to the said Committee : —Sir George Clerk, Sir Robert Harry Inglis, Mr. Pusey, Mr. Vernon Smith, Mr. Strutt, Viscount Mahon, Mr. Tufnell, Mr. Patrick Stewart, and Mr. Hume. Three to be the quorum. Mr. GREENE brought up the report from the Committee of Supply, which was ordered to lie upon the table. FINANCIAL STATEMENT. Mr. HU3IE wished to put a question to the Right Ilea. Baronet. He wished to know at what hour on to•morrow the financial statement would be made? Sir J. GRAHAM said the public business would commence at half-past four, at which hour the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government would lay his statement before the House. RAILWAY CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION SILL.' Mr. AGLIONBY hoped that the Railway Clauses Conso lidation Bill would not be brought before the House that night.. There were several clauses in the Bill to which he intended to object, and he believed that many of his Hon. Friends on that (the Opposition) side of the House entertained a similar opi nion of its merits. He thought that. a Bill of this importance ought to l.e referred to a Select Committee up stairs. Lord G. SOMERSET was most anxious that the business of the House should be proceeded with as quickly as possible ; but, on the other hand, he did not wish to take any Ron. Member by surprise. The clauses in the Bill, he begged to state, were not new clauses, fiar they had all been taken from existing Acts, although modified in a very considerable degree ; and he thought, therefore, that but little opposition would be given to the measure. Under these circumstance, he could not think of postponing the consideration of the subject. After some further remarks from Mr. AGLIONBY, as to the propriety of delaying its consideration, The House then resolved itself into Committee. On clause 1 being put, Mr. HAVES inquired if these clauses were to be com pulsory on all companies, and whether they would apply neces sarily to all future railways? Lord G. SOMERSET said they were not to be compul sory on all companies. They would not necessarily apply to all future railway companies applying for Bills. Mr. HAWES thought the Bill would be useless unless it could be made compulsory. Mr. WAKLEY was of the same opinion as the Hon. Mem ber for Cockermoisth (Mr. Aglionby), that. this Bill ought to be referred to a Select Committee up stairs. This Bill was intended to be a model Bill, and it ought to be made perfect, and then compulsory on all companies. Mr. HAWES did not think they could proceed satisfactorily upon this Bill now. Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET said that to refer the Bill to a Committee would be to defeat it. It would have to be given up for the present sessi,n, and it was very desirable seeing that there were so many schemes on foot, that some general principle should be adopted with respect to them. Ile doubted whether these Committees would be attended by legal gentlemen. Mr. JARVIS thought a Select Committee would be a most unfit tribunal. He thought some clauses might be devised ap plicable to the state of things, and to the protection of the pub lic. He would wish to see the responsibility of preparing these clauses thrown upon the law officers of the Crown. Mr. WAKLEY said the clause which had occupied their attention was very loosely and very clumsily drawn up, avid he entirely agreed in the observations of the Hon. and Learned Member for Chester. Lord G. SOMERSET said that after the opposition which had been exhibited by Hon. Members opposite, he despaired of pushing on this Bill with any degree of success. He would now move that the Chairman report progress, and on Monday next he would declare the course he intended to pursue re garding the measure. After a few words from Mr. HAWES and Air. AGLIONBY the House resumed. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and th House adjourned at Half-past Eleven o'Clock. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. TATTERSALL'S.—YESTERDAY. CHESTER CUP. to 1 agst Mr. Jaques's Semiseria—taken and afterwards offered 16 to 1 agrt Mr. A. Johnstone's The Era—taken 25 to 1 agst Mr. Gully's St. Lawrence 27 to 1 agst Dlr. 11. Stebbing's Celeste 30 to 1 agst Mr. Irwin's Pride of Kildare 30 to I agst Mr. Parry's Zauoni 33 to 1 agst Duke of Richmond's Strathspey 33 to 1 agat Mr. Williamson's Extempore 33 to 1 agst Mr. Bell's Winesour—taken 40 to 1 agst Mr. Meiklam's Trueboy—taken 50 to 1 agst Mr. Irwin's Foigh-a-ballagh Of the very select lot enumerated above only Semi seria, The Era and St. Lawrence were backed for any money. No mention was made of Obscurity, Cataract or Pug, and various attempts to back %anon' and Extem pore failed for want of a slight advance on the quoted prices. 1,000 to 20 was laid two or three times, and in one instance 1,000 to 15 against Foigh-a-ballagh. DERBY. 10 to 1 agst Mr. Greville's Alarm—t. and aft. off. 13 to 1 agst Col. Peel's Cobweb colt 14 to 1 agst Colonel Anson's hedger 16 to 1 agst Lord Stradbrokc's hiss 15 to 1 agst Lord Chesterfield's rain 25 to 1 agst Lord Chesterfield's Newsmonger—taken 33 to 1 agst Lord Glasgow's Miss Whip colt—taken 35 to I agat Mr. Gully's Old Engand—taken 40 to 1 agst Mr. A. W. Ilill's Ironmaster—t. all in 40 to 1 agst Mr. Gratwicke's Doleful (the Frede rica colt) 40 to 1 agst Duke of Richmond's Laird o' Cockpcn. 50 to 1 agst Mr. Jaques's Anti-Repealer—taken 66 to 1 agst Mr. Ford's Fuzbos—taken 66 to 1 agst Mr. Waller's Columbus. The little business transacted on the above event had no other result than to give Alarm and Newsnionger lift on Monday's betting; both were in great favour. 16 to 1 agst Islas, and 20 to 1 agst Yam, was laid in one bet; and the same, with the addition of hedger, in another; 1,000 to 30 twice sg.-4 the Miss Whip colt; 35 to I in ponies agst Old England; 1,0 00 to 25 agst Iron master (all in); 1,000 to 20 agst Anti-Repealer; and 1,000 to 15 each agst Columbus and Fuzbos. OAKS. 1,000 to 10 was betted agat Mr. Gully's Maid of Orleans, and 300 to 10 agst Lord Chesterfield's Lady Wildair. COURT CIRCULAR. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge, attended by Captain St. Edmund Mildmav, honoured the performaueeE of Madame Dulcken's concert in Harley-street, on wednes day evening, with his presence. A Cabinet Council was held at two o'clock yesterday after noon at the Foreign-office. The Ministers present were Sir Robert Peel, the Duke of Wellington, the Lord Chancellor, Lord Wharncliffe, the Duke of Bnccleucb, Earl of Aberdeen. Lord Stanley, Sir James Graham, the Chancellor of the Ex chequer, Earl of lladdington, Lord Granville Somereet, the Earl of Lincoln, and the Right. Hon. Sydney Herbert. The Earl of Ripon was prevented by indiTosition from attending the Council. The Council sat two hours and a half. Mr. Dean, Chairman of the Customs, transacted busine..,B yesterday, at the office of the Board of Trade. Mr. John Wood, Chairman of the Excise, haJ an inter view with Sir Robert Peel on Wednesday. Dispatches were sent off, yesterday ia ,Tninc,.., from the Colonial office, fin- the Governor of Van theman's Land. Dispatches from the Governor of the Mauritius were received yesterday, at the Colonial-otrice. Diss AND YA10101.11,1 RAILWAY.—A special gene ral meeting of the aboi.e Company was held in the Lon don Tavern, for the purpose of authorising the Directors to proceed to Parliament their plans, although re ported against by the Board of Trade. Mr. Springfield, Chairman of theßoard of Directors, presided. A report was read, giving a very satisfactory account of the pro gress of the works, and concluded by recommending that the Directors should be empowered to take from the funds of the Company . a sufficient sum to go through Parliament. Resolutions in accordance with the report were then carried, and the meeting then separated. -'~. ~4 2 t 1 I