The Sun. — London, England, 1845-06-20 00:00:00

RAILWAY COMMITTEES. (YESTERDAY.) HOUSE OF LORDS. THE MIDLAND ItAILWAY-NOTTINGHAM .11/4"D LINCOLN. The Committee met ?vain this day, at one o'clock, Lord Rather. ton, chairman. The case for tho Flood-road Trustees having concluded, the room was cleared far the Z.'onsideration of the preamble of the Bill. The parties were called in about three o'clock, and were informed by the Chairman that the preamble of the Bill was declared proved. The Committee had, however, come to a decision binding the promoters to introduce a clause into the Bill which would prevent the line crossing the Flood-road on a level. The Committee would meet the difficulty of the proposed crossing by requiring the parties to construct a bridge ever the railway at the point where it would interfere with the road in question. The Committee regretted that anything like an impediment should be thrown in the way of a line so im portant to the traffic of the country ; but they were bound to see that the railway should be constructed with safety to the public. The unopposed clauses were then gone through, and the Corn. mittee adjourned till eleven o'clock to-morrow. GREAT GRIMSBY AND SHEFFIELD RAILWAY. The Committee on this Bill met to-day at one o'clock, Lord Orford, chairman. The Bill was unopposed, and the preamble having been declared proved, the clauses were agreed to, and the Committee separated. COMMITTEE ON UNOPPOSED BILLS. The Committee on unopposed Billsmet this day at three o'clock, Lord Shaftesbury in the chair. The following Bills were taken up and declared to have passed through Committee :—The Brighton, Lewes, and Hastings Rail way, and the Eastern Counties Railway (Ely to Whittlesea De viation). HOUSE OF COMMONS. GROUP A. SOUTH-EASTERN (DOVER) LINE. This morning the Committee resumed the consideration of the above line at the usual hour. The first witness called was— Mr. Thomas L. Gooch, engineer, and assistant to Mr. Stephenson as engineer to the South-Eastern line, who gave evidence against the North Kent and in favour of the South-Eastern line, both of which he had examined. The latter would give greater accommo dation to the mass of metropolitan travellers to and from the town of Woolwich. He was quite satisfied of the insufficiency of Mr. Vignolles' estimates, which were too small by more than 700,0001., no less than 1,960,0001. being required, instead of 1,200,0001. Mr. Sergeant SHEA then cross-examined the witness as to the number of level crossings on the South-Eastern line. These, it ap peared, were much more numerous than on the North Kent. There was great danger of accidents where a railway crossed a highway on a level; but careful watching would tend greatly to remove the danger. OR the Manchester and Leeds line there was a level crossing which was watched night and day by a man and his wife, who were paid about fifty pounds per annum. At this place, he believed, one accident, with loss of life, had occurred, but he had not heard of any others. Such accidents hal happened on other railways, but they were very few. Being cross examined by Mr. MELLOR, the witness stated that he helie:•ed there was no 1..wel crossing over a public road. Being re.examirntAl by Mr. ALEXANDER, Mr. Gooch said that there was no level crossing on the Souih-Eastern line so dangerous as that on the North Kent line at Faversham, as none crossed such cr )wded 'horoughfares as that.. _ . Mr. Walter Simms, formerly joint engineer with Mr. Stephenson on the South-Eastern line, was examined to the same effect. On his cross-examination by Mr. Sergeant WeaNrunam, the witness said that he did not think there was at present any danger to be apprehended from level crossings. Mr. COCISRUISS then said, that as the engineering evidence was now concluded, he thought this a fit opportunity for making an objection, which he thought would oblige the North Kent Com. pang to give up their Bill, and to bring it forward again as a pro ject. The North Kent line was to cross Woolwich common, for which the consent of the Board of Ordnance must be first obtained. The Board of Ordnance had given their consent on certain conditions, one of which was that they should pass the common by a tunnel. Mr. Vignolles had stated that his tunnel must be 13 feet ; over this there must be 1% ft. of brickwork, and over this 4 1 / a ft. of earth ; so that from the surface of the earth to the level of the rails there must be 21 feet. According to Mr. Vig nolles' own section the distance would be only fourteen feet. The extreme limits of deviatioia were five feet, so that the line could not be constructed within the limits, Mr. Cockburn then referred to the decision of Committee against the Cambridge and Lincoln line, where a similar objection had been made by Mr. Ser geant Wrong! am. Mr. Sergeant Wa..alloitam said that the circumstances of this case were not the same as those of the Cambridge and Lincoln line, where it was admitted by the engineer of the line that it was impossible to keep within the limits. But in the present case the proposed depth being 14 feet, and the limits of deviation 5 feet, making 19 feet ; and if 6 feet brickwork and earthwlrk were necessary, it would still be easy to make a tunnel of 13 feet deep. But even if a tunnel of 15 feet were required, the North Kent Company were at liberty to go to any length of deviation, with the consent of the landowners.—(Mr. Sergeant Wrangham here referred to the Act of Paliament.) The land owners in the present case were the Board of Ordnance, and it was improbable that they, wishing the tunnel to pass clear of the surface, would refuse their consent to its passing deeper than had been intended. The CHAIRMAN was about to give the decision of the Committee on this point, when Mr. COCKBURN said that he had not been heard in answer to Mr. Sergeant Wraagham, and that he had a right to be heard before the Committee gave their decision. The CH 1111N1 kx said that the Committee were satisfied, and de cided against Mr. Cockburn's objection. Mr. COCKBURN insisted on his right to be keard in answer to Mr. Sergeant Wrangham. The CHAIRMAN said that the Committee were at liberty to de cide the question at whatever time they pleased. Mr. COCKBURN submitted t• the decision, but wished it to be understood that he considered this a gross violation of the law. The CHAIRMAN said that the violation must be the fault of the Committee. Mr. CocKnuaN replied that he wished it to be understood that he thought so. Colonel Dancey, Royal Artillery, was then called and ex amined by Mr. MERREIVETUER as to the danger to be apprehended from the crossing of Messrs. Hall's powder district by the pro posed North Kent line. Mr. Chinon, land valuer, was then examined by Mr. MsaaE WETIIER as to the value of the land through which the proposed North Kent line would pass. Mr. Merton, land valuer, gave similar evidence to that of Mr. Clutton. Mr. G. Smith, also a land valuer, corroborated the previous evi dence as to the value of the land, houses, &c., an the proposed North Kent line. Mr. Rodger:, architect and surveyor, spoke to the accuracy of the estimates of the South. Eastern Mr. Bennet, solicitor to the South-Eastern line, spoke to a meeting of the incumbent, &c., of St. Mary's Church, Lambeth, at which the pulling down of the church was assented to. Witness had rec,ived a letter from the incumbent to the same effect as the resolution at the meeting. _Being cross.examinal by Wrangham, the witness said that he was aware that the incumbent's consent was not sufficient, but that the Bishop's consent had been indi rectly given. Tne CHAIRMAN then said that he had a proposition to make which he thought would save time if assented to by the parties. He proposed that the examination of witnesses concerning the South. Eastern and North Kent lines should be concluded before any further evidence against the London and Croydon line was given. The Committee might then express an opinion in favour of one of these lines, and the case against the Croydon line might be carried on by that one. Mr. INIEHREWETHEA declined giving any opinion during the absence of Mr. Cockburn and Mr. Alexander. Mr. Sergeant Wrangham and Mr. Wilmore assented to the Chairman's proposition. • The Committee then adjourned till to-morrow at 12 o'clock. GROUP F. BIZIIVEZ-LTGETAIVI AND GLOUCESTER RAIL WAY wortcEsTr.rs ERANCU AND CHEL- T=Tri.,'lrri EXTENSION). This Committee met to.day at twelve o'clock; present the Right Hon. J. Shaw, Chairman, Mr. V. Stewart. Mr. Drummond, Mr. Lockhart, and Mr. Branston. Mr. WIIArCI,EY appeared for the Bill, and asked for permission to proceed with the case in its behalf. An engagement had been entered into by the Birmingham and Glou cester Company to the Cheltenham and Worcester people, that as soon as they were called on they would construct these branches. They had now been requested to fulfil that pledge, and he, there. fore, prayed that the consideration of the Bill be proceeded with. The application was opposed by Mr. Calves on behalf of the Great Western Company, on the grounds that {:roper notice had not been given of the intention to proceed, and also that a decision had been given in favour of the Great Western Branch on the broad gauge, which would interfere with any decision that the Committee could at present come to. After some desultory conversation, it was suggested by the Chair. man that the further consideration of the Biil had better be post. poned till such time as an opinion on the main question (referring to the debate on the Oxford and Rugby—broad gauge—Bill) had been given in another quarter. This suggestion was acceded to, and an adjournment took place, by mutual consent, of the Committee till this day (lhursday; week, at one o'clock. GROUP GG. GLASGOW JUNCTION RAILWAY. The Committee reassembled this morning and proceeded to con sider the clauses on so much of the Bill as still remains after the decisions of yesterday. Before entering ora their consideration, however, Mr. Sergeant WRINGIIAM took an objection to an allegation in the preamble, namely, that the consent of the Edinburgh and Glas gow Railway had been to the formation of the branch line to the harbour. A Glasgow paper was put in to show that a meeting of directors and and shareholders i n th a t C om p an y h a d taken place, and that sanction of a majority of those present had then been received. This fact was corroborated by a letter received by 31r. Miller from the secretary of the said Company. The Committee passed the preamble in consequence, and many of the clau ses were agreed to without opposition. Clauses 22, .3, 26, and 27, which referred to the laying of rails upon the quay, were objected to by Mr. Sergeant TaLrouno, but they were also passed with some verbal amendments. Clauses were added to Protect the Garnktrk and Coatbridgelßail way, and the lii I was then ordered to be reported to the House. The Committee then went on to consider the Etrita2l-1%141Z 311.11,1CCH or TIIE GLASG•OI.I7, XX.LICIZA32ATO:.:IE, AND AYR LINE. Mr. TALBOT opened the case for the promoters. The Learned Counsel described Bari head as a place of some importance in point of manufactures, and numbered 5,000 inhabitants. The line would open up the district by giving a communication with Glas gow, Paisley, Greenock, and many other paces of great population and con-iderable goods traffic. The Learned Coui;sel concluded a very able address by calling upon the Committee to deal with the preambl: of the Bill in accordance with the evidence which he. would adduce. Tile Committee, at the conclusion of toe opening address, ad journed till twelve o'clock to-morrow. GROUP K. EAST nmazstara 1111 - 73 7.1011V.T1C11 DMELECT 111,11ILWAY. The Select Committee on this group re.assembied at the usual hour this morning, and proceeded with the rebutting evidence in the case of the promoters of the East Dereham and Norwich Di. rect Railway, and the affirmative evidence in the case for the Wyndham branch of the Norwich and Brandon Railway. Mr. Bidder, a civil engineer, proved that the Wyndham branch, although it would increase the distance between East Dereisain and Nora ch some few miie.4, ye', as a piirtian of ;lie :hie was a!reacly made, it nould cost less for con,truction 47::9 the East Dcreham and Norwich Direct line, arm hence prove in the result a saving to the nubile. foe estimates, moreover, of the Etst Dereham awl Norwich Direct line, as put in by Mr. Gravit, were far too low, while the traffic calcui itions were exceedingly exaggerated. Mr. CALVERT informed the Committee that the plot - looters for whom he appeared had entered into an agreemeot with the E stern Union Extension Company to work their joint trains in conjunC %toil, in the event of Parliament sanctioning their railway. Mr. Locke, on behalf of the East Dereham and Norwich Direct line, confirmed the evidence of Mr. Gravit as to the cost of con struction. This having closed the case on b-halfr f the direct line. Mr. CALVERT add , essed the Committee on the evidence adduced in favour of the Dereham and Norwich direct, and applied him self more particularly to the difference of time and c st between it and the line via Dereham. Toe dist ince travelled by the latter, exceeding that required on the former, was at least seven miles; and eight stations, entailing a delay of at least 50 minutes, were either to be stopped at, or the traffic anticipated at them wholly given up. His Learned Friend had denied that the fares would be higher on the line he represented, and had cited the maximum clause as an effectual precaution against high tolls. But the Board of Trade required on a line returning 10 per cent. a diminution of its tolls. The direct line would unquestionably within a short period return at least that amount, but the additional cost of working the line seven miles longer would at once prevent its ever attaining the requisite per tentage, and its ever lowering its toll. The traffic at present passing be tween Norwich and Manchester would be diverted into channels wholly unconnected with the former ; Yarmouth would obtain a large proportion of it, and the town which the line affected to benefit would be materially, if not ruinously, injured. Upwards of 22,0001. of the money subscribed for the circuitous route was, independent of the purchase of acreage necessary for its construction, to be spent among the landowners for the interest of the good-will. Such a waste of capital was wholly uncalled for, and while unprecedented by any line previous or contemporaneous, was unsought by the projectors of the Direct Railway. His Learned Friend appeared to rely considerably upon the advantage accruing to Wyndham by facilities of communication, while the town of Norwich had been virtually disregarded. Did that dis trict, however, require no accommodation ? Was its progress so rapid, and its prosperity so palpable as not to need an increase? Let the population tables of the years 1831 and 1841 attest the accuracy of such a proposition. The census returns of the former year gave a population of 60,000, and of the latter, 67,000 inhabi tants, a bare increase of 6 per cent. in ten years ; while, in the preceding period, he found the increase had been more than 21 per cent. Such a circumstance was a remarkable and undeniable proof of the comparative declining state of a town, which, from its central position, might, but for want of more ready railway communication, have been expected of unusual prosperity. Thegradients of the direct line were far inferior to its rival; the site of the termini presented similar advantages, and considering the propositions of the two lines in every particular, he contended there was not one on which the Committee were not warranted in giving preference to the direct. The Learned Counsel having concluded his address, the Commit tee adjourned at hail-past four till to.morrow. GROUP L. PORTSMOUTH ATMOSPHERIC LINE. The Committee for this group resumed at twelve this morning, Mr. E. B. Denison, in the chair. Mr. R. Stephenson, the eminent engineer, was called by Mr.Cocx awls , and stated that he was engineer of the Chester and Holyhead line. Had been called upon by the Directors about 15 months ago to make a report respecting the expediency of laying it down as an atmospheric line, and in consequence of that circumstance his at tention had been turned to the principle of atmospheric traction. over about five miles of road; but he had found it very expensive. He had taken his estimates of cost from Mr. Cubitt's evidence, and coincided with him in the opinion that 67,0001. would be sufficient for the stationary engines. But in the estimate for the vacuum tube he differed, as he thought that it ought to be 4,8001. instead of 4,5001. He based a calculation of 5001. per mile for water to supply the stationary engines, for they ex pended 6,0001. for the engine at Blackwall, and 3,0001. for the wells at Camden-town. He did not, however, know what facilities there existed for the supply of the water on the proposed line. The engine at Camden town was constructed by the Messrs. Maudslay, and worked expansively, but not so much as it might do, and he could not say whether it was more expansive than the engine at Dalkey ; but he thought that not a single instance could be adduced of a stationary engine being worked for so little as 11r. Samuda had stated, and he believed that the extra expense on the atmospheric line would be above 9,0001. He was not aware that, exclusive of the electric telegraphic, the points and crossings and the valve, the two lines were about equal,but such might be the case. He did not think that it would be fair to take the number of trains into consideration, because the weights carried by the locomotive trains were so much greater as to render them in effect on a par with the greater number of trains on the atmospheric line. To the inquiries of Mr. OSWALD, Mr. Stephenson stated that there was no opportunity of judging of the power of stopping en the Dalkey line, for after the train left the tube it went up a plane of 1 in 50, so that in fact it was going up hill, but in his experiments they had failed in obtaining any great facility in stopping. In starting he certainly thought the atmos pheric principle had something of an advantage. To the re examination of Mr. M. Small the witness stated that, in his estimation of working expenses, he had taken the traffic on both lines as equal. With respect to the opinion expressed by the promoters of the Dalkey line, he could say that he had fully considered the reasons alleged, and was quite decided in his opinions, especially as he was confirmed by the formula of Mr. Hawkesley and the experiments of Mr. Samuda, which had been published since his own. The connecting tube at Dalkey was a solid cast-iron pipe, and was covered with tar, so that there was every care taken to prevent leakage, and he believed that a large quantity of the leakage was to be ascribed to the pump. The same cause would equally operate whether the pipe were long or short, and the leakage was pretty uniform throughout the whole length of the line With respect to the number of trains, they must of necessity be restricted to the number of crossing places ; but 12 or 15 trains a day might be worked with tolerable facility. That, however, depended upon the equability with which the trains worked, and he thought it would be practically impossible to secure perfect equability through. out. The objections to the atmospheric line were chiefly to the single line, for that was subject to all those overshootings and collisions of which he had spoken. In stating that the peculiar advantage of the atmospheric principle lay in the power of overcoming steep gradients, he meant to assert that credit was due to the rope which drew, as well as to the air which propelled the train. He had founded his statements on Mr. Samuda's tables, as well as his own, in fact, on both sets of tables. Mr. Locke, the eminent engineer, stated that he had paid con siderable attention to the atmospheric principle, and had read most that had been written on the subject, though he had not been to Dalkey. He had read Mr. Stephenson's report, and perfectly agreed with his conclusions. He had paid attention to the gradients on the direct line, and in the event of the atmospheric principle proving a failure, it might be converted into a locomotive line, but it would be a very bad one, as the gradients on one half of the line varied from 1 in 80 to 1 in 100. The increase of the length of the tube would have the effect of decreasing the mean velocity, as the leakage would be greater, and the friction greater, and the vis inertise of the atmosphere would be more difficult to overcome. The velocity of the motion of the air in the tube was greater the nearer the engine was ap proached, and the further the recession was towards the piston the less; and the rushing of the air from the neighbour hood of the piston towards the other end of the pipe occasioned a friction of the particles of the air among them selves, and thus retarded the piston and, consequently, the train. He did not think chat a single atmospheric line could at all afford the same accommodation as a double loco - notive line. The expanse of the Chichester Railway for a double line, taking the main line and excluding contingencies, was 17,4151. a mile. On the at mospheric single the expense would be 16,6501. a mile ; but if the latter was a double line, it would cost more than 20,0001 a mile. The atmospheric tubes would cost 270,0001. ; twenty engines at 5,0001.-100,000/.—and four crossing en gines, 20,0001., and other engines as much more. This made the whole cost of the way 420,000/. But from this, there was to be deducted the cost of 30 locomotive engines, at a rate of 1,7501. each, making a total of 52,0001. There was also 20,0001. for sheds and repairing, and 27,0001. for the other charges, making altogether 100,0001., which, deducted from the gross sum, gave 320,0001. for the establishment of the atmospheric power. The interest of this would be 16,0001. a year. Now, the whole expense for haulage on the Guildford and Chichester line would be 15,744/., so that the whole expense of the latter would be less than the mere interest for the establishment of the atmospheric power. With respect to the passage of trains, he found from experience that there were certain hours of the day which the public preferred, and at which thetrains must necessarily be large. There was also a great adaptability to the locomotive principle to supply the sudden and unexpected traffic and to answer all its variety. He thought that the traffic of the Epsom line would be as much as that railway could carry, and when the other traffic came upon it he believed that they would have great difficulty in meeting it, and at the time of Epsom races, it would be impossible to convey it, especially when the North Kent traffic came en the line at Sydenham. With respect to the crossings, he believed the danger on the atmospheric line would be decidedly greater than on the locomotive line, particularly as the trains come into the stations at the top of their speed. They could certainly cut off the tube, but great precision would be required; and they must either let off the velocity, or the velocity would involve a certain degree of danger. With regard to haulage, there were 37 tons of coals consumed at Dalkey daily, which was equal to 411 horses ; and applying that to 150 horse power, he found that in stead of being 5 7-10 d. it was 7 5.10 d. With respect to the men at the station he had doubled them, for he was confi fident that for the mail trains they would be necessary. The whole expense of the haulage would by these means be increased from 71d. to Is. a mile per train. On the Dalkey Railway the cost of haulage amounts to Is. a mile, where the trains were lighter than they proposed to have the trains on this line. The whole expense actually incurred on the Dalkey Railway was 1,4801., and, giving the atmospheric railway every advantage, he found that the expense of haulage would be Is. a mile. On loco motive lines the expenses of haulage was from I Id. to 111 d. per mile, and in this all the great lines agreed. Taking the estimate as in tons, the cost would be three times in favour of the locomo tive principle, from the greater weight they could carry by one train. The Committee here adjourned. He had therefore gone over and made experimeuts on the Dublin line, and had not only made experiments himself, but had com missioned two other gentlemen to continue them, and had elimi nated anomalies which induced him to make a report that the adoption of the atmospheric principle on the Chester and Holyhead line would be injudicious. On small railways of five or six miles in length without stations, that prin ciple might do very well ; but to trunk lines it would be totally in applicable. In his experiment' on thesDalkey line the speed with trains of 30 tons each never exceeded 30 miles an hour; while on locomotive trains the speed was almost always more than 30 miles an hour, and was often more than 41) miles an hour with trains of 40 to 50 tons each. The first effect of the working of the engine was to reduce the density in the pipe, and consequently gave room for the admission of the denser atmosphere. It was, of course, a principle in pneumatics, that just in proportion as the point was re moved from the en:,cine would b., the slownsss of tha reduction of the density ; so that that part of the pipe which wa, furthest from the engine would he the slowest exhausted, and as the train pro gressed, the rarified air in the tube wound oe gradually driven up towards the further end, and that combiaing with the denser at. mosphere beyond the piston, would tend to reduce the velocity of the train. This, however, would be just in proportion to the length of the line, and, as on the Dalkey line, this oaposition, combined with the leakage, had created • he anomaly of which he had spoken, soli had impeded the velocity. But just in proportion as the train ap proached the engine the velocity was increased, and as it advanced from the engine the velocity was diminished, so that there would be a loss of power, and on the Oalkey line he believed that they had attained the maximum, and the consequence would be that as the pipe was increased in length the velocity would be reduced. He had made no allowance for momentum; for in the experiments the effect of it entirely disappeared. From Mr. Hawkesley's for. mula it appeared the train could not be moved at all after six or seven miles in length. The loss of power, as indicated by the fall of the barometer, was 69 per cent. downwards, and on a 30 tons train it was 57 per cent., the msan power being 43 per cent. He had since applied Mr. Hawkesley's formula to the experiments, and had found them almost precisely cur ect. He had before supposed that the loss of power was owing to the leakage. On the Dalkey line the leakage was 200 feet per minute per mile, and the Dalkey engine exhausted 3,000 feet per minute, on a line of six or seven miles in length. There would he a point at which the Dalkey engine would not move a train at all. There were three circumstances which would tend to impair the velocity of the train—the leakage, which would increase in pro. portion to the length of the line; the increased den sity which resulted trout that increased leakage ; and the in creased friction which was a consequence of the increased density— so that the length of the pipe would act as a direct principle to pro. duce all these three conditions. The velocity of the train was In the ratio of the power of the engine to the diameter of the tube ; it was the square of the two diameters ; so that just as the pipe was increased the power of the engine must be increased, so that the increase of the power of the engines on the Portsmouth atmospheric line from 120 to 150 horse-power, while they had increased the diameter of the tube, had obtained nothing for them. He believed that no atmospheric line would be sufficient to answer the purposes of the public on a great line. The line would be subject to greater irregularities, for on a line cf sixty miles, with stations every three miles, thirty stationary engines would be required ; while with 12 mile stations on a locomotive line, only 9 engines would be required, and there would evidently be less liability from 9 engines than from 30 engines. The consequence wauld be, that while any irregularity which occurred on the atmospheric line would be a perma nent, or at least acomparatively durable obstacle, that on the locomo tive line would be only transient. In addition to this, there was the advantage for the locomotive line that the power could be increased in proportion to the weight of the train which the engine had to convey, while on the atmospheric line the power must be always stationary. The endeavour to meet the difficulty by more nume rous trains would prove a failure, for it is matter of experience that the public would not be interfered with by such frequent trains. There was certainly an advantage on the side of the atmospheric line in saving the weight of the tender and engine. The weights of these varied from 16 to 25 tons on the narrow gauge. On the broad gauge the weight of the engine varied from 23 to 33 tons. The engine and tender which carried the express train to Birmingham weighed 18 tons, and ran at a rate of 40 miles an hour, performing the 112 miles in three hours. In general the weight of the engine and tender was about one-third of the whole train. There would be great traffic on the Epsom line during certain seasons of the year, and Mr. Stephenson believed that the atmospheric principle could not satisfy the requirements of the traffic. With respect to the safety, he believed that the crossis.g places would prove seriously dangerous from the liability to colli sion. There was a 100 horse-engine to convey the train down the plane to Eus , on-square, and for working 14 or 15 trains a day over one mile of road, and he calculated that the expense was not increased by the difference of the power to 150 horse power, and the distance to three miles, as he found that there would be an expense of 600/. per mile. The cost of the single engine was 1,4911. 15s. 4d. per annum, and assuming Mr. Samuda's estimates as correct, viz., that a passage of 2,000 trains in the year would occasion an expense of 331. a mile—putting this to the 9,0001. per mile which had been allowed for other purposes, there was a cost of 1,0501. a mile for working expenses alone. On the South-Western line the cost was 5001. per mile, allowing 1001. for interest. This was the expense of a single line, for a double line had not been calculated. WAh respect to the asser tion that the force of gravity alone would carry the trains down the inclined ',lanes, he had to say that from his own experience he knew that trains had been stepped by the attnoctere. To the inquiry of Mr. H. MILNES, Mr. Stephenson replied that the resistance of the atmosphere was as the square of the surface to GROUP P. THE ABERDARE RAILWAY. The Committee assembled this morning at the usual hour, and proceeded with the further consideration of the clauses to be inserted in the Bill. Mr. WILLIAMS appeared to request the Committee to allow the clause which had reference to the passage of the railway through the lands belonging to Mr. Crasham Bayley might be struck out, and he proposed to insert a new clause, which should have re. ference to all the owners of land who were placed in a similar po sition as Mr. Bailey with regard to the passage of the railway. The clause, after some little discussion, was agreed to, and ordered to stand part of the Bill. Sir T. PHILLIPS appeared to support the petition of Mr. Powell, who leased lands from Mr. Bruce Price, and intended shortly to sink a coal mine in the vicinity of the railway. He wished to have sufficient accommodation afforded to him for the transmission of his coals, and for that purpose required the Company either to bring their railway close to his land, or to make a branch from the pit, or to allow him the power of making a branch to the railway. The clause, with amendments, was agreed to. The remaining portion of the day was occupied entirely with the passing of clauses connected with the arrangement of tolls, and the interests of landowners. The Committee then adjourned. GROUP SS. EREWASH VALLEY RAILWAY. The Committee on this group met shortly after 12 o'clock this morning, and re-committed the Bill authorising the construction of the Erewash Valley Railway, for the purpose of agreeing to the amendments introduced into the preamble. A clause was inserted in the Bill, giving the promoters power to make the negatived branches, provided they could obtain the con. sent of the landholders through which it would pass, and also giving the Company a right of way over the Erewash Canal. The remaining clauses were agreed to, and the Chairman having been directed to report the Bill as amended, the Committee broke up. the weight. To the cross-examination of Mr. TALBOT, Mr. Stephenson re- • plied that he had heard that the line at Dalkey was wider very unfavourable circumstances. At Dalkey there was a connecting pipe running at right angles with the mails pipe, the leakage in which was 119 feet in a minute, while that in the vacuum tulae was only 126 feet. But this excess was, in his opinion, attribut able as much, or more, to the pump than to the connecting pipe. The pump was working very efficiently when he was at Dalkey, but the connecting pipe need not be more than a very short length lie had stated all this to the Croydon Committee a year ago, and had been made the subject of their investigation. He had then stated that the velocity of the traits on the Dalkey line was at its maximum, but it appeared to him that the velocity was accumulating at the moment the train left the tube. There certainly was a slight accele. ration, and that he attributed to the diminished friction which had been laid down in Mr. Hawkesley's formula, and the decrease of density as the train approathed the engine. Last y..ar he had attributed the whole of the loss of power to leakage, but at that time he knew nothing of friction. The only difference be tween his evidence then and now was, that the loss of velocity was to be attributed to two elements instead of one. He could not say whether the result of friction was to be ascribed to the ex. haustion of the air by the pumping engine, or whether it was the effect of the impulse of the piston in the tube. The motion of the train was partly the effect of propulsion and partly the effect of suction. The rapidity of the motion of the air, at the first stroke of the pump, was equal to the force of the stroke. But this would act only on the first column of air which the pump commanded, but the next column would not move at all, except to an attenuation allowed by the vacancy left by the air drawn out. The leakage in the tube arid tenacity of the air would be indicated by the height at which the barometer stood respectively at the engine and on the piston, but only by a single ratio. Indeed, he could not see the use of two barometers at all, butTif one only were used, the depressing condition of the mercury in the barometer would indicate the weight of the air in the tube, and consequently its density. The atmospheric engine was certainly nut so efficient a machine for trac tion as the locomotive. On a small railway of sor 6 miles its length, with a large traffic,the atmospheric principle allowed of an economical increase in the number of trains. He had stated that the locomo. tive trains had been obliged to bend to public convenience, but he could not say that the public had ever been obliged to bend to the trains. It was, however, true that the London and Birmingham Company had advertised that the express trains would consist only of a limited number of carriages. He dared to say that it would be a convenience if third-class carriages could be taken by the ex press trains as well as the first-class carriages. There was a diffi culty in dealing with a large number of passengers on particular occasions, and he would not wish to start quick locomotive trains oftener than a quarter of an hour from each other, but he thought the atmospheric trains would be equally dangerous. In the event of two trains arriving et the same time, and to overrun, and not to bring up at the stopping places, there would be a danger of collision, and whether the points were down or up he did not see that the danger would prevented. This would only happen at the crossings. He had not estimated the number of crossings, but he believed that every section of pipe would be a meeting.place. He was, however, assuming the experience on a locomotive line and applying it to the atmospheric line; and on a double line, upon the locomotive -principle, there was a great immunity, but if the man at the junction whb had com mand of the points turned them the wrong way the collision would wb a r e l i s n e g . pu ß t uutptohneraenlahsenroap, an b o i r l d it L y of a ry cr t o r , a s i i n i n g tt . r p td i • a n ce e , d fo fo r r , ione li order ne to get from one line to the other, the engine would have to be re versed. On steep gradients the atmospheric principle had the ad vantage, as on a locomotive line the engine would slip the moment its weight became its load. They the assumed the engine at IS tons e a l n u d a t l h t e . carriages at but astohathd merely attractive power exerted was u referenee to exee n d i t ure 35 t c of fuel, economy in f ue l, velocity, as this this wTohtieltigrtaadkieenattroafinlul:n 100 is equal to about Su feet in a 33 aplane or 1 it i y „' , An engine suc h 0 at forty mil es an mi.e, anti an esgide. of this power would basely take itself up at that speed. The advantages 01 the atmospheric I over coming steep gradients, and it would, of course, overcome lay in g radients better; but, on a long line, he thou g ht th at • easier -, it was no, only commercially disadvantageous, but inschanically undesirable. Locons,..vss engines could work up gradients of 1 in 100, but at a vary reduossi need To Mr. M MILNES, Mr. Stephenson stated that he haa con templatsd a combination of the locomotive and atmospheric prin. ciplis on the iine which he had charge of from Tiiiig itemrester, where, going up to Dudley , t here would be a gradient of BO THE STTN, LONDON, FRIDAI MORNING, JUNE 20, lit4s. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, .June 19. Their Lordships assembled at Five o'clock. SIR HENRY POTTINGER. The Earl of LIVERPOOL brought down her Majesty's answer to their Lordships' address expressive of their con currence in her Majesty's mesaage,recommending that a pension of 1,500/. a year should be granted to Sir Henry Pottinger for his services in China. The Duke of WELLINGTON moved that it.be entered on the journals of the House. Messengers from the Commons brought up several Bills, which were read a first time. SCHOOLMASTERS (SCOTLAND) BILL. This Bill was read a third time and pawed. LEEDS AND WEST RIDING RAIL WAY BILL. Lord BROUGHAM presented a large number of petitions in favour of this Bill. SMALL DEBTS BILL. Lord BROUGHAM said this Bill, which was to save small debtors the expense of employing attorneys and solicitors, had been sent back because it contained a provision giving a deputy gaoler the fee of a shilling for swearing the affidavits of persons placed under his charge. The Commons, therefore, objected to the Bill, because it passed a tax, and it ought there fore to be sanctioned by them first. He had struck out the ob jectionable words, and he now had to move that the Bill, as amended, be read a first time. Lord POR rm AN objected to the Bill because it proposed, fir the first time, to give deputy gaolers the power of adminis tering oaths. Lord BROUGHAM said the clause did nat affect the prin ciple of the Bill, and he had no objection to s'rike it out. The Bill was then read a first time. COMMON LAW PROCESS BILL. Lord CAMPBELL said he had to move for a Select Com mittee of their Lordships House, to search the journals of the House of Commons respecting three Bills, which their Lord ships had sent down to them. He was under the impression that such a Committee would report th-t, after the Bills were read a second time in the House of Commons without any discus sion, the Committees on them were postponed for six months. It might be supposed from this that the Bills were unconstitutional and likely to act unjusily towards Ireland, but the fact was not so. Representations had been made to him that debtors holding property in Ireland were in the habit of residing out of the kingdom, and thus evading the just claims of their credi tors ; for it was a technical rule in the law of England and Ireland that no process could be served without the debtor re sidel within thejurisdietion of the Court whence they were issued. It was necessary that provision should be made for the serving of process in England or Scotland, or even in France or Germany, so that a person who had contracted a debt in Ire land, and who had left that country, might be placed within the pale of the law, and that a creditor might have a remedy against his debtor. A Bill giving those powers passed with the consent of the Noble and Learned Lord. It was a measure so well considered and of such a beneficial tendency that he thought such a course to be most extraordinary. He thought that when the Government supported a measure in one House of Parliament, they should also support it in the other. He thought the Secretary of State for the Home Department should have got up in his place and stated that they had been approved of by her Majesty's Go vernment. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the whole mistake lay in the Noble Lord entrusting these Bills to a Learned Friend of his in the Lower House, who had never read them. After a few words from Lord CAMPBELL, Lord BROUGHAM said, that the law was in a mostshame ful state, and he hoped that if the Noble Lord again brought in such Bills, he would entrust them to other hands than the Learned Sergeant. The motion was then agreed to. BISHOPS' PATRONAGE (IRELAND) BILL. The Archbishop of DUBLIN moved the second reading of this Bill. The Marquis of CL ANRICARDE moved that the second reading be postponed until the 30th instant. It was only laid on the table on the 16th, and he would venture to say that not one Noble Lord, except himself and those who had received private intimation of the fact, were aware that the second reading would be pressed to-night. It was a most important measure, and greater time ought to be given for its consi deration. The Earl of WICKLOW considered that there was no necessity to postpone the second reading beyond to-night. The Most Rev. Prelate was anxious to leave this country to attend to h's duties in Ireland. He (the Earl of Wicklow) looked upon the Bill as a natural consequence of the Bill of last session; and, besides, it was necessary that no time should be lost in passing the measure, that the claim on the Right Rev. Prelate might be settled. Their Lordships then divided, when there appeared — Contents—For the second reading 35 Non-contents Majority —l6 On oar return to the gallery we found The Marquis of CL A N RICARDE complaining that there had not been allowed sufficient time to consider the provisions of the Bill. Lord BROUGHAM supported the Bill, and protested that he could not see what stateable grounds of objection there were to the measure. Lord COTTENEI kV' thought, that as the Bill had been laid on the table of their Lordships' Holm on Monday last, they were new in a condition to judge of its merits. Lord CAMPBELL thought it wis a most excellent Bill. What he would most respectfulv suggest, however, was, that before any step was taken in reference to the certificate of the judge, the matter should be submitted to a Board before the action commenced. Lord BROUGHAM thought that 53 suits pending at one time were quite enough to make any man's hair stand on end.—( A laugh. ) The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he pitied his Noble and Learned Friend, as a Member of that House, if he were obliged to sit on 53 suits. —( Laughter. ) Lord CLAN RICARDE complained of the improper haste with which the measure was hurried on. He thought that the rights of guardians and trustees should be regarded, and that it should be pstponed till all parties concerned had had time to judge of its eff , cts. Lord DEN 'IAN thought that latterly such suits had'dwin dled down to comparatively a small number. After a good deal of conversation, in which the Marquis of Clanricarde, the Earl of 'Wicklow, Lords Brougham, Cotten ham, Denman, and the Lord Chancellor took part, The Bill was read a second time, and committed. The Bills on the table having been advanced a stage, their Lordships then adjourned. GROUP X. GREAT VTESTERN (DUBLIN AND GAM- W FLY) RAILWAY. The examination of Mr. Hannington, engineer for the Canal Company, which was partly heard yesterday, was then resumed by Mr. Rowe. There was an error of 5 feet at I9A miles between the section of the promoters and the real level. At 191 miles there was 5 feet of difference. Their section was higher than the ground. At 201 miles there was a difference of 15 feet. The ground was so much higher than it was shown on the section of the promoters. At 20j miles the ground was 10 1 ,4 feet higher than was shown on the section of the promoters. At 211 miles it was 121 feet higher. At 22 miles it was 15 feet higher. At 228 miles it was 171 feet higher. At 23 4-Bth miles it was 15i feet higher, On the avenue at 24 miles it was 17 % feet higher. On the road at 25( miles it was 15 feet higher. On the road at 37 miles the ground was 4i feet lower than was shown on their sections. At 38 1 4 miles it was 1 foot lower. At the church avenue, at 398 miles, it was 111 lower. These were his own ob servations made on the spot. He commenced the levels on the 24th March, and finished them on the 27th of March. Ha sur veyed from the 18th mile to the 26th mile, and from the 36th to the 42d mile. He took those levels in consequence of informa tion which he received, that the levels ow the Company's sections were erroneous. He and Mr. Boyle compared sections together. He put down the result of his levels on the spot. Mr. Boyle's sections of the country were accurate, as tested by his levels. The line passed through ground of a very boggy character, particularly between Tullamore and Naae. If there was cutting, then the rail would become a great ditch, which of course would bring the water into the rail. Sir John M'Neill was the best authority in Ireland with respect to the construction of railways. Has been the only person who has executed railways there. He thought the railway could not be constructed for the estimate. The addi. tional earthworks required would increase the estimate to 46,816'. The bed of the canal, in some places, had sunk five feet, in conse quence of the peat stratum not being able to bear the superincum bent weight. Cross-examined by Mr. MURPHY—The construction of the railway was practicable. The bog presented no insurmountable difficulties. If the estimate was sufficient, the railway could be constructed. He made the entries in his book in the field in March last. He was four days employed altogether in taking the He took no note of the evidence which he gave yesterday with respect to the levels. At 211 miles the error was 121 feet. He commenced at 188 miles on the da tum line, and he assumed that that point was correct. If the copy of Captain Moorsom's section was not correct on ►he point from which he started, his levels would be also incorrect. He gave no evidence of these errors before the Committee on Standing Orders. He took the levels to give evi dence on them before the Committee on Standing Orders. The reason he did not give evidence was in consequence of the division which had been made between the Grand Canal Company and the Mullingar Company with re spect to the evidence, and as the evidence on the levels fell to the share of the latter Company, who withdrew their peti tion, of course he was not called upon. He thought that the rail way could be constructed for about 1,000/. per mile more than Captain Moorsom's estimate. He thought that 21. per Irish acre was enough for the land, at 25 years' purchase. He was not aware that Captain Moorsom's estimate was double that amount, or 41. By Mr. WARD—Did not think that the additional amount required for earthworks (46,8161.) would be affected by the dis crepancy in his evidence to-day and yesterday with regard to the levels. Mr. Boyle was here called, but declined giving any evidence, as the information which he could give was acquired in a professional capacity for the Mullingar Company. He did not wish, therefore, to give any evidence against the Galway Company. Mr. James thought, however honourable such reluctance might be to Mr. Boyle as a servant of the Mullingar Company, he saw no reason for, nor did the law for a moment sanction, the with holding of evidence on such grounds. Mr. MURPHY objected to the examination of this witness for reasons for which the Committee would understand, and which it was unnecessary for him to allude to more distinctly. The CHAIRMAN, after consulting with the rest of the Committee, decided that the witness should be examined. Mr. Boyle, civil engineer, was then examined by Mr. JAMES— Went about the latter end of March, along with Mr. Henry and Mr. Hannington, to take the levels. He had copies of the sections and plans of the promoters of the line along with him. These were made partly by himself and partly by his assistants. There was an error of fully 38 feet at one point, which was in the neighbourhood of Loughrea, between the 18th and 26th mile. The surface of the ground on the section was so much lower than the actual surface. This error was continuous for five miles along the course of the line, but that was the maximum. He could not say that the errors alluded to by Mr. Hannington were correct, but he could say that errors quite as great as he stated really existed. Mr. Hannington and himself took the levels separately, and after wards compared them. They agreed in the results. This witness was cross.examined by Mr. TAYLOR. at great length. - . He admitted he had stated that the book from which he made his calculation did not furnish sufficient data to enable him to pro. flounce a positive opinion as to their accuracy. James Malley, ftecretary to the Mullingar Company, examined by Mr. Rowe—He could not say that everything in the office of the Company was under his charge. He had the instructions of the Company not to give up the sections taken by Messrs. Boyle and Huntington, unless obliged by the Committee. Mr. Rowe here applied to the Committee for power to compel the production of these documents, and for this purpose requested the Chairman to apply for the Speaker's order. After some discussion the room was cleared,to enable the Com mittee to consult as to the course they would take. On our re admission, The CHAIRMAN announced the decision of the Committee, " that as the documents required were of a private nature, they had no control over them." Mr. George Leather, civil engineer at Leeds, was then examined by Mr. Jsmess—He went over to examine the proposed line, and to compare the sections and plan that had been deposited, with the levels taken on the ground. He went over the ground with Mr. Boyle, and the levels which he took perfectly coincided with those taken by Mr. Boyle : these, when compared with the sections that had been deposited by the promotors, showed errors of . , . . a very considerable extent. He commenced at 21i miles on the line. The maximum error he discovered was between 30 and 40 feot. He believed the line to be impracticable without altering The cuttings would be far lower thau the drainage the gradients. of the country. Cross.• examined by . Mr. MURPHY—If the section from which he commenced to make his observations was incorrect, all the calcu. lati in afterwards made on that foundation would be also incorrect. The other engineers which were to give evidence on behalf of the Grand Canal Company not being in attendance, owing to their engagements at other Committees, the Committee adjourned till twelve o'clock to-morrow. PROTEST AGAINST THE THIRD RE WING OF THE MAYNOOTH BILL. Dissentient 1. Because I hold it to be contradictory to the first principles of the Reformation to provide for the establishment of an order of men to be educated for the express purpose of resisting and defeat. ing that Reformation—men whose office and main duty it will be to disseminate and to perpetuate those very corruptions of the Christian filth which the Church of England has solemnly abjured, and some of which the whole Legislature of England has declared to be superstitious and idolatrous. 2. Because the most unbounded toleration of religious error does not require us to provide for the maintenance and the growth of that error, but rather imposes upon us a strong obligation to pre vent by all just and peaceful means its increase, and to discourage its continuance. 3. Because this measure has a tendency to raise in the public mind a belief that religious truth is a matter of indifference to the State; and by consequence to subvert that principle of succession to the throne, which is the title of the present dynasty, and which forms an integral and essential part of the Constitution of this kingdom. E. LLANDAFF. C. WINTON. CLANC 4.RTY. C. J. LONDON. J. B. CHESTER. R. CASHEL, &c. WINCHILSEA and NOTTINGHAM. CADOGAN. ACCIDENT ON THE GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY. St.ouoll, WenNESDA Y.—Major-General Pasley, the Government inspector of railways, arrived here to-day, accompanied by Mr. Seymour Clarke, for the purpose of inspecting that portion of the line over which the carriages traversed yesterday, previously to their being thrown over the embankment, between the Langley station and the Dog-kennel -bridge. We may state, without anti cipating the report which the Government inspector will make, that no defects were discovered in the line of rails to have caused the ac cident. The up-line was opened for carriages by one o'clock yesterday, within about three hours after the accident occurred. The down line, the rails of which had to be newly laid down for a considerable distance, in consequence of the injuries they had sustained, was cleared and opened in time for the train which left Paddington for Bristol at five o'clock yester day afternoon. By dint of the extraordinary exertions of upwards of 100 men, and a large number of horses, the second class carriage and the two first-class carriages which were lying in the field of Mr. J. Nash, and the second class carriage which rested on the declivity, were dragged up the embankment, 15 feet in height, and " righted" upon the rails, by 1 o'clock this morning. They were then takeen on to Sliugh, where they were transferred to the up-line, and thence conveyed to Paddington, where they were inspected by Major-Gen. Palley previously to his proceeding to Slough. The wheels of the luggage van, which was the first carriage which got off the rails, and which caused the whole of the mischief, underwent minute examination. No defects, however, prior to the accident, were discovered. Sir Richard Itawlinson Vyvyan, the Member far Helston, who was in the train yesterday at the time of the accident, and who was severely cut upon the forehead, is fast recovering from the effects of his injuries. Sir Richard still remains at the Royal Hotel, and was visited last evening by his brother, from town. Dr. Strong (who sustained an injury in the knee) and Mr. Bristow (whose shoulder was dislocated), who still remain with their families at the Royal Hotel, are convalescent. Mr., Mrs., and Miss Shute, of Southwell- park, Tewkesbury, with a female servant, who were in a first-class carriage which turned twice over in descending the embankment, providentially es caped uninjured. They immediately proceeded with post-horses to Tewkesbury. To the extraordinary strength of both the first and second. class carriages, which, though very much damaged and shattered, stood the shock so as to enable the passengers to move freely in them, may be attriouted the preservation of the lives of the numerous passengers which were placed in the most imminent peril. The galvanic telegraph between Slough and Paddington, which had beers damaged, and rendered for the time utterly useless, by the wires and posts having been severed and broken, was repaired during the night, and by nine o'clock this morning it was again in full operation. To give some ide a of the extraordin ar y s p eed at which the express train was proceeding at the m oment of the upset of the carriages, by Mr. Bristow, of Haverfordevest, an d it was g one over in onl y we may mention that the p recedin g mile was " timed" 52 seconds, being at the rate of between 69 and 70 miles per hour. PORTSMOUTH, JUNE 18.—The remains of Captain Charles Robin,on ALller, of tho Royal Marines, were this afcernoon interred in the garrison chapel, with the military honour; due to his rank. ACCIDENT TO TILE HON. MR. GRIMSTON —A So rious accident occurred to the Hon. Mr. Grimston, of the Cold. stream Regiment of Foot Guards, stationed at Windsor, while bathing in the Thames, in the immediate vicinity of that town, in company with the Earl of Caledon, on the morning of Saturday last. It appears that the Hon. Gentleman, in taking what is termed " a header" from off the bank, struck his head with fear. ful violence against either a large stone or the rugged trunk of a tree at the bottom, rendering him apparently lifeless, and totally helpless. The Earl of Caledon, perceiving that his friend, when he rose to the surface, was in a state of insensibility, lost no time in jumping into the river and dragging him on shore. It was then not until after the lapse of a quarter of an hour that he was restored to a state of consciousness. He was then conveyed to his apartments at the infantry barracks in Sheet-street. Some most alarming symptoms shortly afterwards manifested themselves, it was judged expedient to send an express to Grosvenor-square, to summon his father, the Earl of Verulam to Windsor. The gal vanic telegraph from Slough to Paddington was immediately put into requisition, and in less than an hour and a half afterwards his Lordship was by the bedside of his son. The painful and alarm ing symptoms still increasing, it was deemed advisable to call in the aid of Dr. Ferguson. The galvanic telegraph was again resorted to, and Dr. Fr: rguson speedily ar.ived, when he found Mr. Grim. stun in a state of delirium. Yesterday morning a favourable change had taken place; the patient having passed a good night, and en joyed some refreshing sleep. He is prouounced by his medical at tendants to be now free from danger. CAMMIXDGE AND LINCOLN rt AMWAY. Major Hanley, of Boston, was the first witness called at the sitting of the Committee this day--His opinion was, that the Cam bridge and Lincoln line would be much more convenient and use ful for all purposes to that part of the country than the London and Yorkshire. To Mr. Sergeant KINGLAKS—Was also in favour of the Cam bridge and Lincoln line, because it was a line capable of being cheaply constructed. Mr. Wm. Parker, J.P.--Resides near Bourne. Was in favour of the Cambridge and Lincoln line, because it passed through the centre of a country capable of great fertility, and would afford much accommodation to a large population, which was annually increas ing. The line would pass through a district called the Black Sluice, which was a continuous level of 100,000 acres. There is now a Bill before Parliament for draining and improving the Black Sluice navigation. The entire day was taken up with the production of witnesses whose testimony was of a character precisely similar to the fore going, and presented no new feature whatever, and varying only as to the locality from whence the witnesses came, all of whom concurred in the general opinion that the Cambridge and Lincoln scheme would be productive of great benefits to the whole district through which it was to pass, benefits which they contended could not be the result of the formation of the London and York line. GROUP YY. THE ST. HELEN'S CANAL AND RAILWAY The Committee re-assembled to-day at half past twelve o'clock, Mr. Pringle in the chair. This Bill, which had been re-corn. - nitted for the purpose of con sidering some additional clauses that were proposed to be added to the Bill, was now brought forward. The clauses being read, were agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be reported to the House. GLOUCESTEIZ AND BRISTOL ILAILIVAY. (No. 2.) Mr. Wilam.Ey appeared for this Bill, which was for the purpose of altering, amending, and enlarging the powers of the Company, so as to give it the opportunity of entering into new arrangements with several companies. The Learned Gentleman stated that the Company had just made an amalgamation with the Birmingham and Gloucester Railway, so as to run their trains in conjunction ; and, in order to effect this in a proper manner, and also to allow of proper arrangements being made with several other companies that were connected with it. Mr. John Sanders, Secretary to the Birmingham and Gloucester Railway, proved the amalgamation to have taken place, and the expediency of the proposed leasing. Mr. AUSTIN, on the part of the Great Western Company, sought only justice. A great portion of the Gloucester and Bristol line was made by the Great Western Com pany, and an agreement for leasing had been signed by the secretaries of the respective companies. He wanted that agreement to be honourably carried out. A lease of 999 years was in fact a fee that the present lease was to enable the Gloucester and Bristol to sell to a hostile company. If this was attempted to be persevered in, he would oppose the preamble of the Bill. His object was to recognise the agreement, not as a legal one, but an honourable one. The Birmingham and Gloucester were under the control of the Midland Counties, who were hostile to the Great Western, whereas a lease of 99 years, under which the interests of all companies would be consolidated, was what was required. Mr. DANIEL considered the opposition unjustifiable. The agreement rested on by the Great Western was one amongst twenty similar ones, and ought not to have the preference; for, in point of fact, it was worth nothing. The room was then cleared, and the Committee, after a short deliberation, decided that the interests of the Great Western Company should be protected by a clause recognising the agree ment which had been disputed. The preamble of the Bill was then declared proved. The clauses were then gone through and passed, with the excep. tion of the third cl ause , w ith amen d ments, w hi c h was l e f t o p en for conbideration until Monday. The Committee then separated. GROUP Z. ihe Committee to whom this group has been referred, met to. day at twelve o'clock, the Hon. Mr. Clive in the Chair. ROUSE OF COMMONS, June 19. The S;;;K;n7tOok the Chair shortly before Four o'clock. The Lords' Amendments to the York and Scarborough Rail way Deviation Bill were agreed to. The Manchester and Birmingham (Ashton Branch) Railway Bill was read a third time and passed, on the motion of Mr. lIROT HE R T 0 N. Upon the motion for the further consideration of the report on the Lyme Regis Improvement Market and Waterworks Bill, the Bill was ordered to be engrossed. The North Wales Railway Bill was read a third time, and passed. Ths Hartlepool Pier and Ports Bill was read a third time, and passed. The Lords' Amendments to the Huddersfield and Sheffield Junction Railway Bill were agreed to. The North Woolwich Railway Bill was read a third time and passed. The Lords' Amendments to the Dunstable and London and Birmingham Railway Bill were agreed to. The Lords' Amendments to the Leeds and Bradford Exten• sion (Shipley to Caine) Railway Bill were agreed to. The Duke of Argyle's Estate Bill was read a third time and passed. The Lords' Amendments to the Leicester Freemen's Allot ments Bill were agreed to. The Staleybridge Waterworks Bill was read a third time and passed. The Eastern Union and Bury St. Edmund's Railway (No. 2) Bill was read a third time and passed. The Dundalk and Enniskillen Railway Bill was read a third time and passed Lord A.-41LEY presented petitions from different parts of Lancashire in favour of a Ten Hours' Bill. The Waterford and Limerick Railway Bill was read a third time and passed. The Lords' Amendments to the Leeds and Dewsbury and Manchester Railway Bill were agreed to. The Wolverhampton Waterworks Bill was read a third time and passed. The Glasgow, Paisley, and Kilma:nock Railway Bill was read a third time and passed. The Whitehaven and Furness Junction Railway Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. J. O'CONNELL presented numerous petitions, from Dublin and other places, against the plan of ae.tiienical e•tuca tion proposed by the Government. The total number of sig natures was near 30,000. Sir R. FERGUSON moved that the proceedings upon the Coleraine and Londonderry Railway Bill be po4tponed until to-morrow.—Agreed to. IMESSAUE FROM THE LORDS. - - Messengers from the House of Lord: broqgot up <ereral COMMONS INuLOSURE AND OR AINAGE OF LANDS BILLS. The Earl of LINCOLN said that as the a , j.lurnd debate would no doubt occupy the greater pat of the night, he would suggest that the second reading of , he3e two Mills he now taken without discussion, and that any of its principle. might be taken into consideration at the bringing up of the report. The 11114 were then severally , ead a second tune, and ordered to be committed on Thur , day nex , . COLLEGES (IRELAND) BILL. Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN ~01, 1 ask a qu. , sti•di of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the S. cretary for the Home Department: as it was not likely that the House con d go into Committee on the Collegiate Education Bill that night, what other day he could name? Sir JAMES GRAHAM replied, that he would fix next Monday for going into Committee on the Bill. SCOTCH POOR-LAW. In answer to a question from Mr. FOX NIAULE, Sir J. GRAHAM said that, in the absence of the Lord Ad vocate, he could not say whether it weal be possible to pro• -NI with the Poor-law Bill for Scotland on Monday next. ceed with. a NEW ZEALAND—THE ADJOURNED DEBATE. Mr. ELLICE said he could not allow the present ques tion to pass over without offering a few remarks upon it. He would consume very little of the time of the House by going back into any details which had been discussed before. With respect to the past, he thought he might state that, in the course of a long experience—nearly 40 years—with the colo nies and colonial administration of this empire, he had never seen such a want of foresight, system, and common sense as had been exhibited by the Government since the commencement of these New Zealand transactions. He had been one of an association of gentlemen invited by his 11 1 lamented friend Lord Durham to consider the expediency of opening a communication with the islands of New Zealand. Application was made to the Crown for protection to that undertaking. He subscribed his share of the funds necessary for the undertaking, but having ascertained that it was impossible to obtain protection from the Govern ment, and that even a charter was denied to the gentlemen who had commenceA that undertaking, he withdrew imme diately from it, not desiring to be responsible for carrying into a remote wilderness, and without the protection or the control of the law, settlers from this country. Beyond this he had interfered no further. And here let him say that he was indebted to the present Company for the re p iyment of the money he had advanced to the former Company, one shilling of which he never expected to receive ; but beyond this he knew nothing whatever of the present Company.—( Hear, hear.) He would say, then, that it would be impossible for him to approve of the resolution appointing the present Company, for he con ceived it was a wrong act on the part of those who were instru mental in sending out to that savage island those emigrants, and it was equally wrong in the Government to have permitted it, without giving to them the protection and safeguard of the law. But while he held that opinion he should also state that he conceived the New Zealand Company had done a great deal of good ; and the discussion that the affair had created in that House was the result of the pressure from without, and the result would be to compel the Government to act with caution and circumspection in future. He did think it was the duty of the authorities of this country to have taken care that the settlement of strangers in that island should have been made as little irksom- to the natives as possible. But instead of that, the Government of this country had made conflicting parties of the missionaries and the New Zealand Company, and all these differences only tended to defeat the object it should have been their duty to promote.--( Hear, hear.) In fact, to hear this question spAren of as it had been in that if bilge. one w.tulti scarce believe that they were in an assembly of reasona'ole men> When we had acquired a colony, it had been the acknowledged principle, that all the land which was not in the occupation of the natives, or of persons to whom they had made made real transfers of it, should be considered the property of the owner.—( Hear.) And supposing it were otherwise, still it was for the good of the natives themselves, for the advantage of the colony, and for the general benefit of mankind, that the Crown should assume that right.—( Hear, hear.) His Right Honourable Friend the Member for Oxford had spoken IT, he would not say exaggerated, terms of the labours of the missionaries. But yet it could not he denied that there had been on the part of some of them an attempt to add to their duty in spreading Christianityftoo rea y a yielding to the temptation to acquireproperty.—( Hear, hear.) He thought that whatever title in land should be recog nised, that title should be held under the Crown, and not under any sham treaty.—( Hear, hear.) Was it to be said, that in consequence of such a treaty there fine islands were to remain waste until it should be convenient to the Crvwn to purchase the land from those wretched natives? Of all the devices that co ad have been practiced in a national as:embly, that surely was the greatest which asserted that 50 000,090 or 70 0110,000 of acres, such as was eompre. hen4ed in the Island of New Zealand, should be taken from the original possessors by the Government under a base 41,1nsi:in. He would u ge the Administration, therefore, if they would not fall under the odium of adopting that device, to say what was their interpretation of the treaty of Walton,. Differ ences as to its meaning were entertained by Honour able Gentlemen on his side of the House, and among others the Noble Member for London. from the Gentlemen on the benches opposite. It must be de cided now, and for ever, whether a state could take land on its own right, or give tobacco and Jews-harps for it. The way in which everything hitherto had been done in the island was to mar prosperity, and to destroy an infant and promising colony.—( Hear, hear.) But it was not his desire to discuss the misfortunes of the past, but he had risen rather to inquire the intentions of the Government for the future. Did they mean to continue the island of New Zealand a penal colony, and govern it as such? Were the people not to be allowed to govern themselves? And was it in tended to establish any, and if so, what institutions, there ? We have seen all the mischief that had resulted from the con fused policy respecting New Zealand. When the Government were called upon to state their opinion on the subject, was it satisfactory to state that no change was intended in the administration of the colonial affairs ? He considered that Captain Fitzroy had not acted very judiciously in the expe dients to which he had resorted, but the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated it was a difficult matter to make man in a foreign country responsible for every action which he might see fit to perform, which his wisdom or experience might dictate. He would, not, however, say one word against Cap tain Fitzroy, notwithstanding the errors of which he had been guilty. He wished to ask the Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Department upon what principle he intended to govern New Zealand? what encouragement did they mean to give to the colony ? The Hon. Member for Leominster, who had dis tinguished himself by the speech he had made last night, suggested that the Government should purchase the colony from off the hands of the New Zealand Com pany. He objected, however, to this course, as, in the first place, it would cost a great deal of money; and, in the second lace, the New Zealand Company were better acquainted with the country than any new governing body could be, and he thought they were still capable of pro tecting and increasing the interests of the colonists. Tell the New Zealand Company what was to be their legitimate station as landowners, and what was their present situation with re spect to natives and settlers—let the Government tell them this distinctly. The colony had already entailed on the Go vernment considerable expense, which was likely to be still further increased. It had been said that a regiment of troops was to be sent out. He wished the Honourable Mem ber for Montrose was here to take that fact under his especial revision. The expense of sending out a regiment of troops included various charges of commissariat, victualling staff, and other expenses. The expense at the lowest would be 100,0001., and the country would be unnecessarily saddled with it. The evils of misgovernment were now rife in New Zealand. Captain Fitzroy found everything in disorder, everything in con fusion, and no means were pointed out by which he could repair those evils. It appears that New Zealand was governed by a council constituted under a provision of the 3d and 4th of Victoria, with relation to New South Wales and its dependencies. The question then would arise as to how far New Zealand could be considered independent of New South Wales. This was a question to which he thought the Government should give a definite an swer. —(Dissent from Sir Robert Peel.) At least the Government were bound to tell the House what they in tended to du with respect to New Zealand; and if they intended to bring in an Act of Parliament to constitute it an indepen dent colony, some steps were necessary to amend the state of things in that unfortunate island. They had had people murdered, and it was most proper they should find means of putting an end to those disturbances. There was another national point which he would like to bring before the Right Hon. Gentleman. They were going to esta blish for the first time a purely agricultural colony on the same principles as their own constitution What were they to do with respect to the laws if the land—were they going to send ov -r their whole code of laws ? Were they to establish the right of primogeniture? If they did not meet this in the first instance by some intelligible principle, which could be easily worked out in New Zealand. they would now establish a scene of contu sion and contention, which would take them many years to settle. He wished the Government would enlighten them on these subjeCts. He expected that before this debate had been brought to a close, that they would discover what hope there was of good to be done without going into Committee. If they were to be left to the mercy of the Colonial-office, or any Co lonial-officer, for the future Government of this country, thou sands of miles distant, the Government would find that year after year complaints would le made here by the New Zealand Company, and year after year addition grants would be ;ooked for. He scarcely knew how to talk of the Colonial Government on this matter. If they conformed to the rules laid down by his Noble Friend, and inspired the agents abroad with a little good temper and a little forbearance in the exaction of their duties, such difficulties would not arise. He did not wish to impute anything to the Noble Lord at the head of the Colonial-office. Nobody could admire him more than he (Mr. Ellice) did, for his talent, but there seemed in this transaction to be an absence of other qualities quite as in dispensable to the duties of that office, as the great talent which he possessed. He held it to be impossible for any man to have sufficient power and time, to execute all the duties thrown upon larn by the increasing business of the Colonial office. There was New Zealand. That colony had been added to the responsibility of the Foreign-office within the last four or five years, and this colony was increasing in diffi culty every hour. A good deal of that difficulty might be cured by a little forbearance. The Government should conciliate men, and, as far as they could, unite men together, and not quarrel with men because one was impertinent, another unreasonable, and a third had a prejudice, which it was impossible to subdue. When he saw the situation of the poor colonists, subjected as they were to the violence of the natives, and being without the protection of the Government, ha said that their conntryrnen in that distant part of the world had a right to appeal to that House. He again repeated to the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite that he (Mr. Ellice) had only risen to express his opinion as to what course ought now to be pursued by Parliament in the settlement of this question. They ought not to waste any more time in recrimination.— ( Hear, hear.) He hoped that course would be abandoned on both sides, as it could lead to no good. —( Hear.) He expressed himself more in pity than in anger, from the hope of saving the colonists, who had been the victims of a miserable policy, and with the hope of realising a future good. Mr. CARDWELL said he would take the advice of the Right Hon. Gentleman so far as to avoid saying anything that could excite irritable feelings, yet he could not altogether give up reference to the past proceedings connected with the colony. He. sat in the Committee on the affairs of New Zealand last year, and he could bear testimony that with regard to the resolutions which had been come to on the business of the Committee, there had not been the slightest recriminatory dis pute. Neither had there been any expression of feeling in re gard to the New Zealand Company, nor any reference to what it had done. except in so far as it was necessary for the inquiries of the Committee to refer to certain points of policy in its proceed ings. Though he could not agree with the Right Hon. Gen tleman that it was useless and unnecessary to enter into any defence of the colonial policy, yet he would refer to the policy only so far as it tended to elucidate the question The Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland (Lord Howick) had acur dely stated the question—That it was the protection of the settlers, and the rights and interests of the native population. This was not a subject of recrimina tion, but a question of great and prominen. importance. To that topic he //field esinfiee himself, and that only. What was the real question? That all the difficilltie3 which had been experienced had arisen from the land question. He was happy 0 say, however, that that difficulty was id a great measu , e -vercorne. He believed ihat, all the la id in tie progress of scttlement had now been definitely arranged, with not sin2,:e exception. The land held by the New Z •aiand Comp-my W 44 under a very different claim to th.:t of any ener an .he colony, for, while all the other land of the colony requir , s a coefirmatory grant, that of toe Ncw Z.-altos Genpssr .as an absa at.. g ant. that grant wis m ice by ,„„ Noble Lord the Member for the Coy of Lo,i‘e, (Lord J. Rue-ell). He would not *Vernet to give another ver sion of the report of the Committee, but he should cont-nd that it the basis ,e 1 which the report of the Committee was founded was bad, he should destroy toe arguments of that re port, and the itiference to which they woill,l naturally lead. He wouio not ..V tiat the fink res. ilute in of the C. in it ee %VA?, at varaoce wi.h me es vience Jail b-ime them, but he wool.; 'row that the c.mclus;inis at wh ch th Commit tee arrived were cinerary oi the history of New Zealand. He held in his hand a letter written by the Noble. Lord, on the lath March, 1840, to his Noble Colleague at the head of the Foreign-office, from which it was evident—firstly, that there were no*. less than three enactments on the Statute book. all clearly disclaiming that New Zealand was a pa r t of the British domi n io n s ; and, secondly, the acknowledgment of William IV., that New Zee land was a new and independent State. The Noble Lord the Member for Sunderland (Lord Howick) had so frankly taken upon himself his share of the blame for the first transactions, that he should not quote it against him, in the way of taunt ; but he would adduct a document, in which it was shown that such was the state of New Zealand, that the natives were being butchered in the islands, merely for the purpose of send ing their heads to the museums of thus country. After that there had been an express mission to the Courts of New Zealand, which plainly showed that they were to be regarded as a flee and independent people. Such had been the opinion of the Noble Lord the Member for London in 1840, and at the same time, or rather at an earlier period, on the 22d of June, the Member for Taunton, in a Treasury Minute of that date, expressed sentiments exactly in consistence with those he (Mr. Cardwell) had that night pro pounded. He would refer to the treaty of Watonga for a short time. Honourable Members were familiar with the language of that treaty, and, therefore, he would not read it, but just call the attention of the House to the first clause, by which the Government had bound themselves to grant to the natives all the forest rights and fisheries which they might possess, and the second clause reserved to the Crown the right of pre-emption. The pre-emption was confined to land which was not occupied by the natives. It was asserted that Sir G. Gipps and the Noble Lord did not understand the treaty. Why, Mr. Williams had explained to them exactly the position in which they stood before they would consent to sign the treaty. " Oh, do not sign it, for after you have your lands." Another said, " Oh, by done One party e o they e had a d . w s u a l i d„ take all means sign it, for they will not take your lands." And thus were the opinions expressed in this remark able debate. The whole of this had been expressly stated to Sir G. Gipps. Why, he thought that it was a Jibe on Sir G. Gipps and the Noble Lord to say that they could not, or would not, understand the treaty. After all this, Dr. Evans and two others went to Sydney for the very purpose of asking the opinion of Sir G. Gipps, and it was after that in terview that Sir G. Gipps had stated that he could not assent to any decision on the matter ; for until after inquiry it was impossible for him to sag whether arty injury had been done to the natives or not. He did not know what instruc tions had been given to the two Commissioners which Sir G. Gipps had sent over afterthis ; but to his mind it was impossible for any man to use plainer language for indicating his knowledge of the nature and principles of the treaty. The N.ibe Lord was accused of framing tiro plain and inconsistent agreements within a few days. One was dated the Bth of tinvember and the other sho ved that a communication had been sent out to Sir Gipps which was dated on the 21st December, which recognised the other agreement. The correspondence with the New Zealand Company was .i,o 7so o ~..; .•:-_-;, oo Z 7: . •,. believe that, an inquiry wsu!rt 0,0, tsi., o Lis, Oos_ l o f in.s.,iorier of probity atril trepastial;te w ietirl ne aeo n t " rl. The. letters which he ha l quersil suffieieiolv p troot ;tr . s ir ,t which actuated the Nsiit'e 1.,,ril in costonidiss iitoo t oo''. l In July the Noble Lord ackno-v W e ed 1;le io .:7 •) ~ • tonga ; and could it be a.sn•ol teat the NSr = Li , - " t in November, act directly the reverse of what he had file el July? The natives said th e y understood the treaty, fir they said, " The shadow of the land goes to Queen Victoria. but the substanceremains with us." This was the language of the chiefs. Captain Hobson wrote to Sir George Lipp' in 140 that s conspiracy was set on foot by low abandoned Europeans that attempted to instigaie the natives into tumult, by saying t e !‘ z a as soon as the English were strong enough they W OIII , I 5 1 e. upon all their land and sell it. The Ilth clause showed thatt the Company had offered to forego every cleim to land exc,i,P, that which the Crown conferred upon them. On the j o ' December, 1840, the Colonial-office claimed all lend in I'l l Zealand which the chiefs granted. and Lerd John RuiSeie then said he was not aware of any other possessor. of la' e , New Zealand, but if there were tt-ey should be legitimatel L dealt with- The New Zealand Com p any, in their report _t_el 011 e the ;same year to their shareholders, sa id they were ,'L i same foiiting as any other private individual This was als r_r i . mockery, Sor all other persona were lim-ted in the m aximum '_' e acres, but the New Zealand C nmsanv we" unlimited be," l they w , ere an instrument in the hands of -toe Govertimest." 4 3 ( Hear, hear.) About. that time the Noble Lord ape"to te s rhe special c iminissionsr of great talent and probr y. r : 00 Hon. Member for Cockeroiouth said this' Comrni•s' ° " e The not particularly friendly to the New Zealand Conloal.,boy• instruciiims to the Commissioner were given unit' ~ l'he Commissioner was Mr. Spain, and he u d e t stood the treaty as Lord Stanley underst e 'o va s Cot. WakefiAl, whom the nativss called " Wide-a" ke ' m oire also employed ; and he, on the 24th of Aostust. 1841,, e ao , thus respeoting the treat: y, that a commission the natives, at, r j pointed to inqeire into the purchases made of the natriaremo, if the purchases oi the Company were no , va' f i d- „, i o jand pensation was to he made to the natives by the Pt '''. , d ~ re: Company.—( Hear, hear.) Soon after Csl. Wrak''' 7. 0 0 home that he was proceeding with th e investi ,gatio n ; that ° 0 „ o . parties required compensation , and th at the New Zeal" They pany Company recognised their right of corapensajo!.,.. (ge e had been told that since Lord John on had 1 ' e iOth et " liberality had changed into pertinacity ;" but on the for his June the New Zealand Company thanked Loin'saneY, sodid " liberality." Anybody who read Mr. Sp Pp reao a r t ' id why know why a change in the proceedings took Plar s e n ' o e toberr Col. Wakefield withdrew from the investigation. 1 ortie the 1842, the New Zealarsl Company took for the first instruction which they said was the Nob!e Lord's l e si i s log. and which they wished it to appear they had h e. dema nd ' The conduct of Lord Stanley with respect to the new and n like a Id of the Company, at the close of 1842, was statesma co sistent •in the highest degree. Yet , the wr bob ds hits blooded " and " cruel " were applied te, t he l' ic'r and Lord John Russell, in the documentS o' t f a irae ° Zealand Cempaay. Lord Stanley acted with, g e ,tds, 0 h i e d towards the Company with respect to those nema- be woe stated in his communications with them, th,a t .bich th e l d s i i d m n i similar d p e o s at e • r e n u a k t e iv t e h s is a guarantee them a conditional title to the lase s , ", a ff o rd th ‘ e , . I t t ructi oo, stated they then possessed, but that he should al i g i CO:* vrewtoithbercehspaeraccttteorisetdhelair itabnadtyoifoittatecipeitobrie; fogging attorney. Then the charge that he had , t h e re- , oath as a Minister of the Crown was as untrue. inwishich btu as little entitled to foundation as other charg n e c l' oc , tO° a . r : n j been brought against him, respectingir his CO ~e s ob 0 ut 0 , 4- the New Zealand Company. They could not 03" caret ... putation for the Noble Lord's instructions were not root bus r ig; in the colony as he desired them to be. ThOg ree nders t(#l its date the 18th of November, 1840, was perfectly foo d irt b t ee Colonel Wakefield, and a proof of this was t,,Zoistelso 11 . i being acted upon in the following spring. he com pany the British settlers complained, Lord Stanley fore, c allea r :re s t a prima facie title to the land. He, therea . Afente . _„. the House to negative the resolutions of the _° s u es fotorY 1 ;;;d Liskeard (Mr. C. Buller), believing that n° s f the 11° ` ” t e.. . elusion could be arrived at in a Committee 0 the W cu s j o l e e t of that the subject could be better dealt with bY t he 0°- secondly Mr. MANGLES proposed first to enter into the so d s ee d beeo the Church Missionary Society in New thatieal o cietY h i % h od into that of the Company. For 30 yes"' eSOf S ell - irl a g t° engaged in carrying good tidings to the aborig'°. • in re fer io and their exertions had met with greats ueee:; , their erro r ht et i° a . their conduct, however, he should rl o tr ,;,, this ,_ 5 ''', l) " hostile or scoffing spirit. He should di sc about tee firsten we° candid spirit. There could be no quettirs,,. d td 1 3,0 d by of the Church Missionary Society. 'J u t !. l a nd i" b h a a a be° went out there approached the shores of t" - , o esse w hich t hey that blood-thirsty people, and their first su .: & l ess s iad obtained in consequence of the very deo" to tbe , e l' a , s t had exhibited. The reports from a few visitors a s o it 0 ' trio had shown that they were fertile in the estrem.liiissionarYo„srY that precise period the attention of the CLAIN'', ute h N'll'' l „ r te directed to them. It was no discredit to the Ce_ . to take an to were the es Society to say that they were in ne condi . 1 larged view of the future measures. They a tbe tr d to colonisation, and objected to every that)inalzii°`i if cos vete t " reignty of this country. They maintained t c• InV e itbe Christianity and civilised, they were perfec cs_ la be ibis govern themselves, and that no assistanCeb l e u es ,,, el:it 04 slightest service to them. He was led '''" . s o cietY ra bsd was the feeling of the Church AlissionarY ir, g, tti .. Y ho j than the facts of the case. After mlnY of iew charm,' at last found a settlement on the c oasts 01 )ye w law less 0 But the , had not been able to exclude thn'e un sOl f t he ters by which the country was infested. The entry `in; t ! it d. victs and the sailors had brought to that er'u rh ,;' ea t that most dreadful and fatal maladies with which ESrel rele °t • s of These and other causes had combined to rove t in influence which should have stoppecl the warlik,e P_ ar red l a t he the natives. Massy desperate conflicts had ,occ,_,, eo to did islands, and some of the tribes had, in fact, been °,_'-e's'e wars lie southward. All his arguments went to show that them' the'P' i , so not arise in consequence of residence, but in sP' t _ w ho a':,, of had his information from a son of Captain P , e',: : io 0 4 ' a duty at the islands at the time. One day, wbil'",. be a t o the boats on the coast, he saw a chief parading tecoseb_eiths state of great agitation, in consequence of a wolfia n 4 ips "„ o 0 his household who had gone oo' board a one of the ' tt , ive l s. out his permission. No sooner did the unfortstot ol' e „,, a step ashore than she was struck down senseless, wi l e'', sa ,- ,,l'sg ing a word, by the remorseless chief, who, withe:idae,:ors word, ripped up her bosom, tore out her heart, 0: ; to o- e s. it between iris teeth, cast it on the ground. Anct' n e t t ne at d ited had been narrated, ,there, its consequence of reti r e re';:er• cited against the steward of a ship at the island , nth° u s ers' in the massacre of the whole crew. and the bodiesJos..lll,leo tunate men were absolutely cooked in their own sujribeLio/P It appeared before the Committee of 1838 tb°4lllo7,ltd characters who came to the islands were every W o e ; O. ° pee: and the consequence was that the moral staters, 0° Geste was such as the Church Missionary Society lit feel i t contend with. In this state of things Mr. Dana ; ~4 riPij b e ;" had devised a plan for the restoration of order a," 00 0 6 , , 10; in the colony. He had first planned that th e "fri a las l4 `jj diplomatic agent constantly resident in Net er q 0 - ,bO O there shouid be courts of justice presided ° ,',ae ; s oo t r O‘ Zealand Chiefs, but that the administration et ass '''- e'r: ' rostes be s at. be ultimately vested in Europeans. Mr. `-'`' bees's' ts ''. vided for the expense of these establishmentstb subject Pried ceived that where there were so many Bri t.i ' ,oe subj e ct t o dent it was the duty of the Government te.`" o tber" rt odf sion. He (Mr. Mangles) did not mention thl to ree ° 4 , res ( to show what wild schemes people were obligeiety sere ohi r i t meet the case. The Church Missionary S, °° , 1 , tbee o , tr i o to encounter any difficulty to accomr did no t net' but they were too sanguine, and e i e s; °ate with but to throw any disparagement on the missionart jot erc o ot bicelfal what the converts were, and when espnse d u 3 to s a l D tbe */ ! at Englishmen of ordinary reli.zion and virtue-7 w ith „ j ot , i s not , h Cal SC what the consequences would be from assoc be s ec a b een_ t o and depraved. They were not at all likely to_ erts bs. be islt e , as Martin Luther. Many of the new een' ort b of ''., 'P r o tively engaged in the disturbances in the n et) Capt° o yo o t b es , The man who had cut down the flagstaff W l ' s iso a is s. P e re field was destroyed was a Christian, as w e:e trao cti l . - eri s sr in whose names had been mentimed in the ate f thes e c°ll rb°4 ei Members must be aware that many °'• t he dil tile All men of very questionable character, and ~ T ic alarlY u plerAeOc e , the north of the island they had Pa r- , p roce e •h e eV - o i. themselves by their lawless and dishones ttiois...t 04,03,, the evidence which had been adduced b3fore thei r l ‘ '' o th " 0; of most respectable men, who were, from ell 1.4 t . I, 01 1 00 the country, well able to form an opill'eti't scotle," `thee die thing. Ihe President of the Chure.hs 01 .„,oner ~,i o;, e , others, spoke in the most contemptuou.,t.of E,,g 15 : 1 ; 0 11! t he , which had been used to cheat the i teefd . ao re ' 4 OOl, $ idea that the New Zealanders iv e-e able t r " 4 '"ii ii e 10 b 0 toed, Mr. Busby, the missionary, put hisabe ..','vino.v stc e 00 ,.a .ve r. mouths of the islanders, %via , eel , .... ,t ba` r o sill l " confederation," , t p r eerty," ' - I,`" l ',` . s u' ° i n Sr 0 0 0 which their vary habit,. of pranuostati"' ios stit O .AI k_ e asr witted them to toaster. He aid trove t i ha , : ), , t , si , i s l ~,,,, a b ew put a stop to this stairs of ;bergs, I it - 1( _ ' tits i I, a , 5 0 4 ., bo ll' that up to this day the Goir-rilo:eilt Or .. a , „pa % s ,•s 00 . on • , i i, ''. i t 0 0 whatever name, was a Gr.wer tnP O ~,;. a 0 coo ,$ 1,-s,ly nailer the power of lb: litisiltrliAitit3e. ~..,401,0,49, known fac , ,nut Iv Ling s, 40 ° o,i tr . ~ y'i w er' . ! Zealand, Out ,oale per.,,,,,, " ",,, '' i ,og p ie ',lag foam the Church )lts*."93il,tfice•-.` 0.5'1031 in SaSishurt -spare o, ~ t.' ""' • 0 ,, t o th 3 l,:.0• 11 : : ;0 . rb, mi er ecor 1 ,,,, , i-anti , A.; " :Oct: ~ ,os.: •' 1, talent. The io fl atoirits esoiiiied Cer o s i ' i a , his L, t et° ot ot e and tangle toe , bite t., rrg tr , l th '.,l e r . „,..t to . t t l i ,t L l : c p 'h . , again he im.dored 'he Hula. 11.,5. 17 0 res t°. A t ow , l i , ,ll . ' ei to settle ihioe w hap l ,y quarrel, emit ~,, exer r,o- vers iol e t a d ,, sate country 'I .re ',melt te-i :oil L'''',, 4 . y'3 (1° 100 4 01' h , natives of New Zealand, I,s h , r . B j: t , at ` At .iv? / 14 ss .. r e ',d hrul ever brio-. been tit, tiP"'' amid d e e,' s ir e,i, t',,, t . whereas, had they a top' , 41 a piatt , a e! . ,,,, a u, t o'' . ... P ~e co:ony mielit have b osn foirl 2 i in ir,.,,,r,,,,ne i , everbooti ba.4i h. nil fill of clever iF. JOT. aos ..,_, ;t ir 0 a _ c or . 7, adopted the same de,, [relics l . o ho ~,i e v ..d i .",,, calfe had done in Ca..ada, and ' w hich ' id); Ci?,t, heard of the horrible massacr• 0 notoi,allyater, T o trl ob in New Zealand. When 3 ,0. ° * l . o tighwe 'icb native chief hired an assassin to butche ~o f b , t o h ~ h O i ' an gea . ble , 1 0 0 Metcalfe had both the assassin and the t i, b t oo %es o p and on their conviction he had theln avertedhe o n be NO fat%l),' r . decisive step as this would hays e lo, ° , rt' ar ea' o eb had lately fallen ma the un:ortun a te ued by 00 . v ‘,o e bytt , ce ii , o 4 But no such polity as this was puy vise a to `coif lo ot roe although he had been frequently 3 ~,A., o y ; . 4 , fe: o' t of of the Legislative Assembly of thec,iiet, i i .t!! ~,,s o _ 4l o ..ei r of the misery and suffering ' entt ai.° 4 't a n' bolo e i sotreta vi p ~ t , . 0 , the settlers lay at the door of Go the I se • bsP" th a ' 0 04 ' attributed to the cour , e pursued 7 ;(1 iv , s itri e , r at, %es e „.l pany. He begged it to b.! under to s t_ bo dy, , Not _ opo e 0 0 to the Church Missionary Society s ir a A gents ' fl o otrl t c e j 1400 had not a sufficient control over the i n this "° s cca s teei O r nor did he believe that any person . d been i t , fro o eo ite ety ha .. 0 a c ,1 with the Church IVlissionary Soei vou la ‘ l lO3 e%,„rio e i smallest selfish interest. He urc hase the otP" f they were fully entitled to or to oy 001 0 0 0 them P e re n os t 3 h e natives, but he blamed t h e y sill 'e o of k purchases they had made, because take a c ert . 0 .00 by the New Zealand Company t to ha ve g 1; I°# ° l° further than that, they ou ght tiOt rem , in t o otr o ort with declaring his hearty concur I.' i _ e OOP l eils o al I I ; Hon. Member for Liskeard. d w ith t" co ofe . 0 , v et ~ Mr. COLQUHOUN quite agreenot the of a e° l ,.. ceeer °° ; who had just sat down, that it wa a s eorio nt 0 ht to i- o f I s , 0 , to interfere in the political g°°e„leahodong „tee ) r i e t hes ra . thought the Government of Ne:_f„ , u pon a 5 i pro t i e gr e l 'hje cf ; like the Government of this coftt:" ecireli gnY ° O ,-- -( t h is ° o f°) • administration, irrespective 0 . _.; the 0 the ... .„ 0 t_ e qt_j tb_ the one side, or a religious b?CI e Y „T:,titnents Allocoree'croP ,tie, He had carefully perused all the ow" i n that the fion' e d tbr i ';i'y and had come to the concctu..4 s tate. lis 0°,10(07 colony was not in a satisfa . n a , mo st ab Y, 0 ,01 1 ha d itr. h , • arR. 0 ti s it Secretary to the Treasury Gentleman , den° tbe e e l ',ail tion, and so far as the Hon. ic) , Gen her tor,, si or ._, a Th e ' perfectly demonstrate • Lord the I%:en'uthe agora it ei v,',l I t o ", proved that the Noble nstruction nit] ed ° Pies ; ~,00 , 0 London had put the same co , a 5 that P:: Collsos 'hre ° `,lo the New Zealand C"aPa•nY i " r : t ret Vet ba le ats * l li Noble Lord the prestnt Secretary. ca'iltter "i i Fr e il l 'l l mo tion stead of bringing forward ,eeti to,,cb bet d its fle d ho st.' 4 Noble Lord, it would have 19 ,. m mlo,o °ll ,o a ge e rig ,fi e P., ft:mai d some proposition . f° Theis oeceorwhieh fine d, °,l ', government of the eolonytt, 1, coup" e.lllllsl"l4oici‘ePr°lo Colonial Government of this were se ha d the saga'ioe r f. ) ,o dignity of the NobleGovernrae Lord tons ,fibt e VI co Lord Stanley. The . v oice , th e 5 0 ...i.".. we ir in the world to discover a grie r hear. o bict; 5p f . ,,..0 1 , , ( Fit'a i rri bY o ell 0 inin titude to devi.e a mimeo,. _ the soste ,ht he _ v , ~..o thought that an adaptation et .:, a l iniopbtitfoo Pr, "' ye in" P o te' long and Sc' happily governdhelar. ) li, our other colonies.—( Hear , _ ur ,o9 Pi P ig ! aible, without throwing Wanl y . -