The Sun. — London, England, 1803-06-03 00:00:00

a *r. tad Ministers then Bonded, they were certainly unfit for their situations ; in the beginning of the year, - France shewed their designs in all their deformity; about that period it appeared Mieleters had received,' intelligence of a new.d&gn fornitd by the accom— modating father of the Western afamily, who had made overtures to Russia, Sec. tespeeling a proposed partition of .the Turkish,Empire: In this praleite • 11)66110d detiomination of limordissemeftt was men. tiored : at any _ rate he 'supposed the First consul iniended to secti&T.gYpt: for hitieleK 'the" Mae' was to be erened into an independent Republic,, • 'at leet as independent aa, the Cesalpine Republic ; ' • this proposition was not acceded Joe. - however, ML • nisters very property remonstrated and .required expianationi—about this time they came to the knowledge of Sibaitiani's mission, and to crown • • 'the flagrant insolence cif that transnelipn, an .official report Of it, was published. On this circumstance bf7nggravation,his Lordehip dwelt with much force and effen.—He then adverted to another point of the insolence and aggression manifested bythe French Government ; he alluded to the publication which thi French Agent, Rheinhard e caused to take place at Hambro', which here Probated as a fool and aggravat. ett libel on His Majesty's Government. There could, bell° well-founded palliation for this outrageous pro. ceeding, ter - Rheirshard was not a Tyro in politics. He was long employed in peociedings of the kind, s firstlinder the Sceptre of the Diredory, and afier, '•• •wards under the Military .Despeitism of the First - . • • Consul,; and he knew that Ireland, was not exempt the °Teets of the manoeuvres of this personeeee • Soon sifter this period, the welt_known insult at the Thuillcries took place : this, however, in his Lordship's opinion, did not arise from sudden heat, • • but was deliberately designed, under the. vain idea of - sicking this Government in the eyes of Europe, • should it have been tame enough to bear it; how. ever that fortunately was not the case'; the intep. • lions 'of the , Firit Conaui, with respen tp Egypt, e were soon after avowed. Let their Lordships recol. . lea the unequivocal language of M. Talleyrand with resped to Malta; the refusal to evacuate • Malta Woteld• be considered as a renewal of War. . '--a-The - insulting 'language was then held, that England should not retain any thing in the Me. diterreneane—not a sail of theirs should swim upon that ;Sea; nor should she have a Port there. e- in to receive them. Did 'Ministers crouch to • those accumulated aggressions' and insults, they would •deserk a worse punishment than the loss of their places. 'With resped to the references to Roesialui the part of the enemy, it must be obyi. oos to the meanest capacity, that their °hien was, •to gain time, in order to • recall into their ports . elbeitescattered commerce and their ships . of war• : then would the enemy, with every advantage owtheit'sidei have abruptly broken, with us, and to e • s.certain.degree we must have suffered for their • • treacherous duplicity. His loss to account for the inveterate hatred which the French Government bore' to this Country, was in game *degree don t e away by a passage in one of the best Roman Hiatoriani, • who related, that when it was proposed to one of the' Roman Pro-consuls . to undertake the invasion of Ireland, the ultimate end proposed 'was, the re. shoving friam the Sight of the persecuted Britons, a • NatiOn the ' ' enjoyment of les liberty and lode. ependente : as such, so he felt it must be the wish of the French Government to remove from the eyes of the persecuted and enslaved French—the sight of a Nation : where all are free, ruled by equal Laws ; where the property of the meanest peasant is equally protested with that of the highest Peer, and where the tongues and hands of men are 'equally free.—He had heard of extravagant effints to be madein the present cpn test; he trnsted'however, that none such would be made ; the effects of such in Franc were well known, bat the moat spirited exertions 'on the part of the • Country should be called for, these would lead to the vindication of the insulted honour and to the full aceutity of this CountrY, 'to the rescue of :l,ernpe from , her present state of thraldom and de. gradation, and 'restore the blessings of Peace on the , most secure basis.—He trusted the resolutions of the Noble Earl would he negatived, and expressed his hope thet•some Noble Lord more competent to the teek;than he was would bring' orward some resole. - lion, expressive of their Lordships approbation of the medal of Ministers. - • e Earl GROSVENOR said, he should trouble their li' rdships but shortly in delivering his sentiments up. on i lhe Mot ion•of the Noble Lord with regardjto some elthe Resolutions, particularly the first; lie thought it would be better to move the previous' question, but as to the otherSe he trusted that he concurred with a majotity of the House in thinking that they • aught to be negatived. The Noble Lord had pre. (erred a series of• . charges against Hi s M a j esty ' s lylinisteis, and if his Motion was agreed 'to, an impeachment against Ministers ought to follow, for if the Resolutions were agreed to, the Noble 'Lords who supported them would not do their duty if they did not follow it up with an impeachment against those whom they had represented as guilty of such a derelietion of their, duty. When the • house, however, was called upon to decide upon the condutt of His Majesty's Ministers, it was but fair to take the• whole of their conduct into consi. &ration. lie wished the House to recall to its re. tolledion, the time and the circumstances wider which the present Administration were called into office. It was at a period of great danger and diffi culty. 'rile Hpuse, he hoped, would also recoiled that it had distindly approved of t h e c e e eent i ee made by His Majesty's Ministers with the Noithero Powers—it had, approved of the Preliminary and of •the Definitive Treaties of Peace. It wale there. fore - but fair, when they were called upon to vote a censure against His Majesty's Mini'. stets, to bear in mind how much of the conded 'of that 'Administration had already received the de cided approbation of the House. He certainly agreed with the Noble Earl, that if His Majesty's Mini_ titers had lost. the confidence of Parliament, or of the Peeple, that they ought not to retain their situa. - lion ; but he saw no reason for entertaining an opi.„ pion that they had lost the confidence of the People of this Country, or of Foreign Powets. The No. hie Earl telltale:id moved the Resolutions, had err. tainly•enterteined opinions ahoue the Peace which were difftreot from those enter reined by a very large • majoritk of that House, and of the Country'. That Noble Lord was of opinion, that no Peace ought to htlt C LOU ie made With France ; a ..trliament and tijk try thought thet the experiment of Pace oughtJtSAlk, 'tied. TheNobleLoril hatkomplainett that Mit4itir:e' 'had not resisted the firirtinsults antlT - aggiessl . 4: the Vart-ofFrartee ; it Wasfflimdoubeediy true, tis#titl Ministers had been disposed to go to war, that :the. contlud of France had afforded them Many justice: , CatiQllS, in -the annexation of. Piedmont, Parma, Placentia, Elba, &c. to the French Republic. But if Ministers had aded 'Upon these provocations—:-=if `they had. immediately 'plunged the Country into a War, ' , would they have given the experiment which had been made of a Peace, a fair trial .? That alone would have been a strong ground to : influence their condud, but there Were much higher considerations which influenced their condud. Another charge against ,Ministers was, they had not made earlier communications ache hostile dispositions of France; but if they were really .anxioui to. preserve PeaCe, a prematore communication to Parliament was per haps the only means to rendes' it imprissible. The objet and. the earnest wish of this Country, and he believed of all Europe, was to maintain Peace ; it was Bonaparte, and Bonaparte alone that wished for War. He certainly did not believe that the People of France were desirous of War, but they were forced into it . by the ambition of their Ruler; ,he hoped, however, they would throw off a yoke which was now so galling. In saying this, he did not, wish any thing personally hostile to the First Consul, lie only wished him removed from his situ ation, beeline he believed that would afford the only cbanet of Peace. His Lordship concluded with moving the previous question upon pat t of the Noble Earl's Motion, and declaring that he would give his decided.negative to the retnainder. Lord DARNQSY alluded, to a misrepresentation of what had fallen from him upon a former occasion, respelling the Address, to which he had given his support. In the question of the War, he consider. ed 'the King, the Parliament; and the People of England, as the Plaintiffs, and the Government of France as the, Defeodants,' and he believed a case on the part of the Plaintiffs was never more clearly proved, or more strongly made out. But it by no Means followed, that the stronger the : case was against. the Government of France, the stronger the case must be in fayour of Ministers. It appeared to him, that Ministers.liad made out, a case much too .strong,' because they had proved ads of aggression and intuit on the part of France,at the time that Par. lismant had every reason to believe that there was not only no, chance of War, but that the two Countries were in a state of profound Peace. This appeared to him, in some degree, deceiving Parliament. The great error;on the part of Ministers was not taking up the matter sooner, and in not Malting their stand earlier, and immediately after signing the Treaty of Peace. If we had held strong language at the first when the First Coniul began to adopt this line of conduit, if it had not prevented a War.altoge. slier, it would. have ,enabled us, in his Opinion, to have undertaken it under better circumstances, and with more advantage. His Lordship then adverted to different parts of the, Papers which were laid be fore the House, and observed tvitli regard to Swit zerland, that it would have been better to have done nothing at all ,than to have made a remon. strance -without following it up. , With regard to Malta, he thought we ought 'to haVi.considered it as of more importance in the first instance, or not to have made it so important at last. He was sorry the Noble Lord who had spoken last had made any allusion to the removal of the First Consul of Fiance from his situation, for he believed there was not a man in England who cared whether he was removed or not, Lord BORINGDON said, it certainly was true, that occasions had occurred in which Ministers would have been justified in calling upon Parliament to take the measures they were now recommending, but he was at the same time of opinion that in at. ing in the manner they had done, that they had displayed great moderation and wisdom, and so far from the Country being enfeebled lay not adopt. ink hostile measures sooner, he thought we had done the reverse—we had, it was true, given up much, but we had now got the heart and soul of the Country with us, which was worth fifty West India islands. It was undoubtedly true,that . Yrance had been guilty of many acts of aggression and in. suit, not only against us, but against all Europe.; but previons to the grand question about Malta, he did not think there was any point upon whiCh the Country would have 'gone .heart and hand into a War. His Lordship concluded with observing that he felt, in common with the House, great regret that m a ny persons .of great talents were excluded from his Majesty's Councils, and he should be happy to concur in any measure calculated to intro. duce them again into Administration. Lord Fi re' said a few words, which We could not distinCtly hear. The NIKE of CtIMBEI'LAND Vila a few words, expressive of his approbation, of the present Adrni. niitration. Lord 1-I:,itt NC; DO N explained . . Lord SUFFOLK adverted to some, parts of the conduct pf the late Administration; which he cert_ mired, particularly "their not confirming . the Treaty Of El Arish, by which means the War was protract. ed for two years, and the Nation put to the expence of Ise. millions. There was one part of the cont h i o f the present Ministers for which lie thought they Were entitled io praise. and that was their civility; he then alluded to the treatment which Dr'. Franklin ..... experienced' in this Country many years ago, anti 'which, he said, was one of the causes of the Ameri. can War. La*/ IVESTOORLAND in r ose to trouble t h e i r Lordships very shortly, answer to some of the charges which had been urged against iiis Majesty's IVllotiters. The War in which we were now en gaged was a war of aggresSion on the part of France, and in no degree brought an by the condo& of this Country We had been- called upon by France to do due which we were not bound to A lo by the, Treaty, And we were threatened with hostilities i n case of refusal what then was, the duty of sters ? Was it to wait till the storm was r ea d y to 'not over us, till the preparathuts of France we re . Completed, antrtill they had withdrawn their Fleets. from danger ? Or were they to, take . the advantage. which - cirannitanCes - presented to t i ) re _ vent the titorm which wai gathering, from britaking colitt Alas Country l TTe contended, that this Conn. *6404 neither bout/thy'. the letter or the spitit of r.q) . yto evicpta Malt a ,. an;, being in dirt is teioa,. Mimste of that to consi etler the.impdrtanee of thii Island btforethey -gave up: 'He by no means meant to assert, that if Weiiad been bound by the Treaty to evacuate Malta,- that we ought to have entered into a con. .aideration of its importaoce, but the case was very different when we were neither bound by the triter.•.or the spirit - of' the — cheertry 'Th give - it - up. Nobody !You'd, he believed, deny the importance of Malta, it differed in one respell from all e ahe other possessions we ever had in the Mediterranean. Our former posseisions were so weak, that at the commencement of a War they Gould not be dcforde ed, until we Could send out a Fleet furaheir• pro. tedion ; .but Malta wits sufficiently Strong 'to defend itself against .any attacks that could. be made upon The question which we had to consider was simply thus—War with or War withotit Malta I . Because it was obvious,. that •if we had given up Malta, that Egypt would have been attacked, so that if we had evacuated that Island, the War would only have been delayed a few weeks. \Via! , the. certainty then of being firreed into a \Var, the only point to be decided was, whether' we•ought to enter, into it with the advantage of posses sing this strong position, which furnished the means of attacking our Enemies, or of proteEl. ing our, Allies ; or whether we should give up our Honour, and Surrtuder this valuable position. This was not the only';tiretifice we were called upon to make ; we were desired to violate the laws of Hospitality but the Crown of England. was not redused so low as to pu rc h ase a precar i ous tran quil. lity o fit Bud) a price. We were therefore engaged in this War as well from necessity as from policy, — ..There was. one point which he wished to make a few observations upon, and that was the common. place echo which was often repeated from the other side of the House, about the inability and incapacity of Ministers. This kind of language had been very. .frequently held by•a Noble Lord, who from his own great abilities was the more able to detect the want of talents in others, and who generally concluded with praising himself and his friends. This cdmrnon.place charge could only be answered by calling upon those who made it, to look at the whole of the conduit of Ministers since they came into office, and. by that they wished to be tried—a the conduit of His Majesty's Ministers, when trey first came into office, did not tend to weaken the exertions of our Naval and Military Force, and in• proof of this assertion, he need only refer to what had passed at C o p en h a g en , i n t he S tra i ts o f Gibial— . tar, and in Egypt. It they were to be judged by the Convention with the Northern Powers, he could: only say, that upon that subjeit they had received the decided approbation of Parliament. With re— spell to the Preliminary Treaty of Peace, upon that point also they had received the approbation of Par liament, and they had also upon that occasion the support of a - Right Hon. Gentleman under whose support they were proud to shelter themselves.— It hut been said, that when Peace was made, as surances were held our, that all ground of discord was done away, thatevery thing was to be amity and friendship ; in short, thy; the golden age was to be restored. He Was sure that no such language had been held out by His Majesty's Ministers, and if Noble Lords would look to the Address which was voted upon that occasion, they would find that it contained very different language indeed. That the British Government was sincere, however, in its wish for Peace, was proved by their conddel_ after the signature of the befinitive Treaty ; they disbanded 70,000 Militia, ao - iOOO Fencibles, and as great a number of other Troops, Foreign and Eng_ list), who were engaged for a limited time ; and every Seaman that came home was immediately dischargerL But it had hien asked, why, if France had shewn a hostile disposition, they had evacuated the Cape and other places r in answer to this, he said, that Government - would not have been justi fied in refusing to evacuate the Cape, &c. which they were bound to evacuate by the Treaty, be. cause a dispute had arisen ; besides, it would not have. been very•prtuientAhen to have gone to War, with a reduced Army and Navy. With regard to Switzerland, Ministers had interfered, and the dig_ positions of the- Powers of Europe were sounded but it was found- that the unfortunate Swiss were unable to make any resistance, and all prospeit of making any alteration in the affairs of the Conti . . nent at that time was given up; but the interference of Ministers had this effell, that it prevented tile union of Switzerland with France, as the Italian Republic had been united to it. With regard to the Cape, though he thoughtit a very important place, yet he. did not think it would have been worth while risking a War for it at that time, more especially as ht entertained no apprehensions of any' - attack that could be made upon. our Indian 'pos.: sessions by any Armament that •could be sent out from 'Europe, as we had in India a Ml tire force ,of 100,000 well disciplined men,. hegira 20,000 Europeans. It had been as. serterthat the fa as did not warrant the asser Lion in Ate King's Message of the 84! of March respeeting the armaments in the French anti Dutch Ports. ,There was, however, at this time a naval force in the Texel, and 8000 men who were to be conveyed to Louisiana ; that armament that could convey such a force to such a distance, could- COE:- vey nearly three dines the ounker across the Chan. net : there were other preparatiorts in HaVre, in Dunkirk, in Brest, and in. the IVlediterranein, ca. pable in the whole of conveying a force of co,csoo .men, so that there was ample :justification for that part of the Message:. His Lordship then adverted to the advantage which had resulted to - this Country in 'consequence of the Treaty of Peace, and evil. eludes with declaring that in. his opinion no ground had been laid before the House to justify cite adop. tion of the Resolutions proposed by the Noble Earl. Lord 111ULG AVE said, he was extremely sorry to hear his Noble. Friend, (Lord Wm - molt Las a) state, that His Majesty's Ministers would he cll.: ded to their discharge on Peace being obtained. The Earl of WF.sT . MuttI,AND, i n ex pl anat i on , said lie bad not. made use of any such ph rase. Ltaitt MU I,G Alf E resumed: be %vas very glad, he slid, to find that no such expression bLd been u-ed by N o ble Fticrnl. 'With resi , cti to the 01 g) isi IC T Ti 'CR I, present question, it was to u_ the full exercise of their Lordships' privileges via not always the true one. When it was a Ties tion as to what measures should be taken for iii Security of the Country, he thought there Iva not time, and he trusted there was not ineliristioi to go into the consideration of retrospedive alie- The time of their Lordships would; ibefatOti b better employed in - considering - v/Imi inertilfitt otlgb to be taken for the Defence and . SecEiti,.of dt Country, tlian-iii-fOlidiSeliiiions it il - Piesent, -- Those who had had experierre of the long War it which we had been engaged,: and thi::'stidrt Pao which had ensued, must be .'convitteed, dot 00 1 were three grea . t. °Netts of artibititin 'Which saustei the French Governmrot : The first 'was, to destl9. the Power and Resouries of. thietountry iillo4tal the next, to exclude. our Manufaetures and utltoll coerce from every Port -in Etirop:e.i - anti thetl'ie4 resulting from the attainment of the; other tWOr',o4 desttuCtion of the Independence and Prosperitte l this great and Immortal Nation. ' These . ;per 1 0 had constantly been. the (+jab of _the , French ; GO. vernment, whether in War or in Peace, ltd 'tb o These. were still the objeCts of that:Govetimient la must still be convinced,. from- the Warning - o' b had fortunately been given to us. He w . truhltrif at length into the considetation of the vitriOtascl! , of Hostility committed by France ; liewt)10,1 1 1 l och. at the present moment, go into the cdnsideratio a „ OF Rcport . of Sebastiani, nor would .he. rata, 004 ' ILoiaships' recolledion, the means adopted lats. .ett,, in pursuance of the second obled which tf,tot, . ~. Government 'had in view, namely, that of eX., t', on: Cointnerce and Manufadureientirely fr.o,7' . ports ; with respect to which it was well litol,!! that if the smallest quantity of British inanuTon, was, found on board any French vessel, fIOPTe., . was liable to 'be con fi scated. The inte nt, ; • France to invade this cottony, had be,eirnw..7.' explained.. The instrultions given to the.s.:Pels called Commercial Commissioners, seortFo o f Country, was of itself, a sufficient explattitill; that purpose.. They had been told from i . 040 1 , 11u : thority, that - the War might probably. bc.. l 1 -... °T : one ;he was glad of it. They had been:Ottnl. there was a vulnerable point with rerineet„tol tli- • by means of which a brief t ermination.:lii. i g h q; given to the War ; but. till, they weal i4 91.51 4,,' what that vulnerable point. was, they West'. vert to the continuance of ii War, ea under unprecedented circumstances and prot7; tnyond example. If he could. succeed ~ i r i!., pressing their Lordships with these considettairo°' lie would ask, whether, when it seas netei t he , consider what measures ought to be atioptef,a.lr:4 purpose of carrying on the War with - vigilttf 1 1 .. effed, the time of His Majesty's.Mio i terf i t o f , to be employed in attending to the consivt'll•foi; the subjects which were now brought fottS 4 _, , o f . the consideration .01. the House, or the acte l4 ,, l lbst i Parliament in deciding upon theint He trtiocr o . t y, their Lordships would interfere between rite that . and midi discussions as the present. Het, ._. ori f His Majesty . 's Ministers iviiulstshOillY bri ng" i t , 10 1 the consideration of the Reveritte . Wiftel al f Im .,- at ., appropriated to the purposes of :the OA A l w i l l s . the present contest, and wit' h Might- ra F lc , ~- . kit c oo. . as much efred as possible wittia.s'ac*tt) l ''''' 6 great 1 111116w C hi o cl u till :It tv :Y °t":fl! and with as little w'eight'S*tli g " 4ll*.4lll°"l • lbt' tend to employ all the eneigie , Ct u. ; ; ;;,, tho se tne 3 : its defence, against its Enemy!. . ""--•.' o found sores were brought forward, and if the -,/ v , N o ble deledive, then it would be dw.ticitY o:'_ e f !„..r'ula be e. snore e 0. ., , ip , t i liece t :l , ::, : propose iicicv,he,:v,:e n, went those ittioi s t e d, vui ‘ ivr , c ' ne i which Car aside I ttiohd : g6 h et h e iriet - aihg.n t e ail high spirt s i r. iii ' s 1 e ` :t ai .4, 0.;, , 01,a , :i1it , die ~ pi_ it :,:i nf o :og n o : sweica. But he tliciuglic every discuss ,l° l no f t o gics 4 .the nation from the aggressions of the Enemy.-- POliament lo s ar cb s ' now to the Country the sPeelaci e 9 wolf t b l ) i , se t ti ll s:! t o p n i,i.e ; .a - r t a h n e c y e should division, neon rage mein when Europe pocked to this Couniti a - v ipit the. ae . gyp , last refuge for the defence of P i ' ts tt . i l c ib il e a ; . t lY i esili c a c :ls9 l( the ambition and aggrandizement of 'Fl a % 010 behoved - the honour of the J-louse, and it,!..nop porrant to the safety and seenri t y of this 91"hoolil that they ought not to he discussing 09 . 1 ,.. 5t t he take measures for the defence of the Countri those period whe n t h e y s hould be discitssing.whethF%s lie mealtires ought to be taken. For these reisfogion, did not think that either the original ',.A' t os. ct o .iu r i essleFib t i l if t , e ;Ru 7 p ia : di e no : d , f i previous iswe CARLISLEQ. 'adjourn. should u i ji e oo s itt t il i d o n t; , t h , c o r u e g fa h i e t o ct l . o . l , P c . . . tl is C y to the Motion of the Nobles-aLiod;dl!wchocjuiltdodil!t. "l i tg je sjre r! , down, which if it was adopted,. would, be cn s v ijoi , ed, be a great hardship upon His MalestY'r , t iolt srers ; it would be rescuing them fr ont tillverf by a sot t of Parliatnentary nofiltrareflai- er l be per , :on most wish that they s hould at o ' / , t heiti , charges which had been b r ought akain°. w ife They were told this Was not the time. ttl 'l s 1° - into flie.coralutt of Os Majesty's Mioisire,ri;that that was nett n b ,, e t e t ri tte tc t i i l i i n i e t , li i i ii ri : o p g ea.c a c iicriod of I ‘,...& i i t ile; he should like to know when as . r i a t s % t v l a ie s t n i a in t e t";9e ill t i a i e k it e that inquiry. Oii the' contrary, it w'`, ro ve duty to ioquire, and if they..tlid not •01'.I teri , of the conclutt• of His. Msjestra N.l i ,,, c ior it was their dury'rn address 1-fis MoJest"; P. r— i o fits ' that he would be gracious!) , pleased tootling . 04 .COuricils, more of the talents cif the couParr e nts cliaiged Ministers with not posiessing those ;t . tha . which were necessary for the carrying into cri! onie st measures required for' the, proseoution of the. , : to. die , .in which we were.eppgM. With resre 6 t , i r i. -absence of all communication to ParlianteO 0 ~ ,,,a speding the t liiptate between t hiS Couotry, w'irt! France, there tic . `'et was a pet iod pregoan,q4ecli so flinch danger,, in which I pis 11 , 1.1leSt.r: b ht ! re at clic commencement of a Sessiot. lik a 's i o r 0.. sent had afforded so , little informationi,..r.f,d few grounds to augur iion. Muchlyti herr -.u . . , 1 1 ,4 on former , occasions ' by ! Several Noble Lords..o.lol, subjels cf Piedmont and. Switzerfriod , 'T` l ., s i c i ,4o4o.: : other took,s hich 'had never ben,satisfaCt°'„lokeJ plained I hylqinisters, and now when I[4 ''', 4l „ f e ii ii, f ,i i c i i s 11‘11:,cjetslit .c,',.e's,ll.l)veictillarealteinongitlciae)t-cifOtOurr.cdcti/ilits-01 10