The Sun. — London, England, 1808-03-02 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENI, HOUSE OF PEERS, TtiLiDAY, MARCH 1, The 10,500,0001. Excheriner Bills Bill and the Petty Cuitoms Bill were read a first time, and passed. LORI) LAKE. On the Order of the Day being read for taking his Majesty's Message into consideration, Lord HAWKESBURY, in calling the attention of the House to the services of Lord Lake, thought it Wholly unnecegsary to taiO up much of their Loixiships' time, the greater part of, the services being well known to their Lordships, and kilt fresh in their recollecltion. This distinguished Officer be gan military career in the seven years war ; he afterwards 'served in the AMerican war, with dis tinguished reputation, and subsequently in Abe French. war; in which the anion at Lincelles would ever be remembered as a striking prof. of his mili tary talents. He afterwards held a command in Ireland, and finally that important station in India, in which his distinguished services were well known to 'their Lordships, and frOm whence he had return ed in the hope of long enjoying his well merited honours. had, however, been soddenly mach ed.away, and it now remained for their Lordships to . consider of tha propriety of conferring this re ward upon his family, to whom there was s011)0 rea Son to believe it would be necessary in order to en able them to support't he dignity conferred On them, and which hadheeti so well merited by his services., His Lordship concluded by moving an Address, assuring his Majesty of their readiness 'to concur in the •proposed grant which was agreed to ;amble dWeati6itc, and ordered to be presented by the LOrds with white staves. #" • OFFICLS IN 11.YERSION DILL. On the Order of; the Day beine , ro..d for the second reading of this Bill, , • .Earl of LAUDERDALE called the anew. tion of the House to those passages in the Speeches. o f his. Majesty to Pirli , lnlent, on tilt 27th Of April and the 26th of June, eApressing a 'desire that the inquiries, with, a view' to public economy, should be continned.• ifhe Committee of Finance which had existed in the former Parliament had.heitii pointed in this, which Committee had recoil). mended this measure. His Lordship adverted to the circumstances of this Bill having been thrown out in the last Session, when none Of the Ministers were present, except the Noble and LeaTneci Lord On the Woolsack i and expiessed a hope that, wider all the circumstauces in which tins Bill was again pressed on their Lordships' attention, they mould not now reject it. It was highly important, at a - crisis like the present, that the people should see that there was a disposition to attend to every minu tiae that could tend to relieve the pressure of those burdens which they must necessarily bear; whilst, at the saute time, the mode ofranting offices, which it was sought Co prevent, was by q) mean's a good mode of rewarding public servants, from the vari ation at different periods in the rofits of offices, a n d tended frequently to confer of ces on those w h o wer e incapable of executing the duties or them. Lord AUDEN opposed the Bill, on the ground of its twine; a 'direct and unnecessary infringement tilt the Kin's Prerogative. He also objected to the Resolution of the House of Commons, subsequent to the rejedlon of the Bill last Session, whit:bite considered rather as a species of legislation. He was aware that his opposition to the Bill was liable to meth, misrepresentation ; but that should nut de ter' him from performing what he conceived to be an act of public duty. Earl SP ENCEii was perfe&ly convinced of the • purity of the 'motives which actuated .the Noble `Lord. He did not thiuk this Bill of any essential or vital importance ; but under the circumstances in which it was befere the House, he thought their Lor&hhips ought to pause before they again re jeaed it. He thought it rather tenders to mpi.,lrt the preropttitip of the Crown, than to ;:iirg i q;o upon it. The LORD CHANCELLOR objected to the Bill in its present shape, as wholly unfit to pass into a law, trout the vague manner in which it was drawn Up, and the general, enadments w hi c h it con tained.' wits wilting, hOWever, to vote for the second reading, if there was any prospect of by mo difying it in the Committee as to tree it from those ObJetilonS to which at present ho thought it liable but if it was intended to. press it in its present shape, be must Jdecidedly ohjetl to it. Lord HAW< ESBUR Y wished the Bill to go to Comtnittee; on the gt - oods that it might be ex. pedient . to regulate the granting et offices in rover- Sion, so as to prevent abuse, and also to give thud plan of economy which it fur lee maturing at any might be ,wished to propose, and which might, theretbre, render it adviseable to suspend for a cer tain time the granting of offices in reversion, that in the mean w one it might be ascertained whe ther there wens any otlice.s which it Would be ex pedient to regulate or abolish. it wow in this view of the sebjea that be voted lor the second reading, in the hope that the Bill might' be modified in the Committee. Lord GAOSPEIVOR approved of the Bill in its present shape, and hoped that no compromik would take place,, out that the Bill would puss as it was . Thy Earl of 111ESTMOBELAND supported the Second reading oil the same grounds as Lord "Hawkesbery. As to Ministers not attending.on the • discussion of this Bill last Seestoo, why did not 111oble Lords on die other side attend that discus sion ; and why had not this Bill, if it was so int portant, b e en tiooner taken up by them ? Lord lISDASDA LE obje6ted to die Bill altoge.. ther, and thought it incaptthie of any modifications which could r•niicr it fit to be pa6sed into a law. He also objecied to the Vote of the House of Com.. mons, for addressing his Majesty not to grant Offices in Reversiou, u;hich he considered a sort of . of the Legislature alone. Legislation by o ne branch If there was any measure of finance to be 'pro posea, let them have the '1.11(4)e- of the.intqlsure t fore them, and they theo could lodge - 01 the prupti ety of this Bill. Lord H obt,ob, in adverting to the tipeeph of the, Nate .E 4 r '('WeAcnpr l 4 l o) , deprecated that BPO' ties of recriminatory observations, which cooldlehd o no possible good. Noble Leeds on his side of the House had not previously taken up the Bill only be cause they did not, wish to 3hew a want of candour towards Ministers #pe 'the sake.ni . cateiii,m; 'a little popularitY., He could noebelp observing, that those Noble Lords' who had opposed the Bill in totn h a d attid with the greatcsrfatrness. His Lordship de fended the Vote of the Home of Commons, which, being merely for an humble Address to his Majesty to suspend the granting of Offices in Reversion Un= . til six weeks after the commencement . of this Session of Parliament,. he' could not conceive liable to the objeetions of the Noble and Learned Lord. The Duke (f MONTROSE observed, with re speet to recriminatory observations, that it was nOt fair the attack should be all on one side. He op posed..the'Bill in into, thinking it incapable ref any desirable modification. The Earl of DARNLEY supported the Bill. Lord AUCKLAND, ii0(11 the unlimited ettaanients of the Bid, was not prepared to assent to it. The House diirtded on the question for the se , cond reading ; the numbers, as we understood, were, Contetits - 34 , Not Contents 36 Proxies - 35 . Proxies - 25 69 6 t Majority—a. TIP! Ili:1 was, w•e understood, rend a second'tinie, and committed for Tuesday. Adjourned till Thurs day. HOUSE . OF ,commoNS. . TUESDAY, MAIM!! I • Committees were- chosen by Ballot, to try and determine the merits of the Petitions complaining of undue Ele6tions and Returns for the Boroughs of Newcastle and Yarmouth. The following are the Gentlemen composing the Committees. NESCCASTLE COMMITTEE. / let. Hun; Maurice I.li4,6eraiii. Samuel Smith, ESQ. eitiverly iicwick, Esq. Alex. M'Kerizre r/sett Esq. W. WilnerlOtee. Esq. • Lord Viscount Templeton, F. W. Grant, Esq. Sir Lawrence Palk, Barr. Sir Edward Knardibull. Lord Viscount Newatk. C. I. Brandin's, Esq. 1 Charles Milner, NOM INEE. HerVy joddrcl, Esq. l 1V nn. Dickenson, Esq. YARMOUTH commiTTEE. Andrew Strahan, Esq. lion. Thomas Onslow. M. H. I3elien, .sq. Win. „Gordon, Esq. , Sir R. Pccie, Lan. H. Stuart. Esq. Lord Arthur Somerset. Edward Holler, Esq. Es.i. Thus. Cholnionci4ey, E'l. Lord Vi OLIIii huh:anis, I Henry Guldsworth, Esq. W. Manning, Esq. . , 140141 N ES. Sir Arthur Wellsley, Barr, Mellish, Esq. A Message troth the Lords , informed the House , that their Lordships had agreed to t..e 10,500,000 i. Exchequer 13i114 Hill, and Petty Customers Place Abolition 13111, without any amendment. • • Orders in Council Bill should take place on Monday next, the CHANCELLOR of the ExchEsatnajrniug previously iniimat6d his intention to carry the Bill through the Committee this niklit, and to have the Report , brought up on l'hurslay or Friday next. Mr. WHARTON brought up the Report of the Cimnbittee of tilt% whole House upon the King's most gracious Message, relative to the Grant of an Arinhity to the FaMily of the late Lord Lake.—The Resolution was agreed to, and a Bill ordered, pur suant thereto. . REPORT Ok THE ARMY ESTIMATES. The CHANCtLLOR of the EXCHRQUHR moved tho Order of the Day for the further consideration of the Report of the Committee Of Supply. On the quo tien that the Resolutions be read a third time, Mr. WlNDlfiiill said he would abstain from go ing at'anyleugt# into the consideration of the sub jett,of the Army Estimates, because there was so much to be said upon it, and because the subject must inevitably,. from time to time be brought wider the consiration of Parliament. Shifts and expedients must necessarily be resorted to, unles s the recruiting eit the Regular Army should be placed upon its. natural ground, by holding put inducements to th e m en to eater, and making their situation respectable. IPILBERFORCE expressed some surpris e that the Array -Estimates, which used re give rise to, such 18ngthened debates, should have been so lightlk, passed over, at a time too whys it was, on ail hands' allowed* that the necessity for "providing a formidable.. defensive force was greatly augmented. Fie had always been a friend to the Volunteers, and had witnessed the alacrity with which they marched.in the North to-the defence of their shores, on the first intelligence of the ' Enemy's force'being off their coast. Notwithstanding the superiority of our naval force, it was the opinion of the highest naval'and military authorities that the Enealy might be able to run a body of troops into the Country;. and therefore it was his opinion that it was neces sarby to train such a proportion of the population Of the Country to arms as would, under the blessing of Vrovideuce, not only prevent any attack during the war, but secure the Country from a coup do main' in peace, when Otis army and navy should be nished. The SECRETARY at WAR explained the various items of the Estimates, and the heads an 6 amount of saving in the pre,ent Bill, and where such saving was to take place; and then expressed his concur rence in the opinion of his Hon. Friend, that it would be necessary to have some systematic m o d e of defence provided, not less in 'the event of peace than of war. Colonel Noon disapproved of the system of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Windham), and re commended the erection of fortifications, and: the establit,hrnerst-of magazines in ditferent parts of the . kingdom. Mr. estvs bore testimony to the merit of thel'o lunteers, and 'though he bad supported the plan of the Right Lion. Gentleman, he thought it extraor dinary that be should not have allowed the men en listed to enter for life if they those. After a few words from Mr. Rose, and a short speech from Mr. WINDHAM, in defence of his mi litary system, and :mother from Lord CASTLERUAGH in reply, the several Reiolutions were agreed to, and a Bill ordered accordingly. The SticRETARY at WAR ; then obtained leave to bring in a Bill to prevent Mutiny and De sertion. Mr, WHITBREAD suggested to, his Noble Friend (Lord 1191Icestotie); that it might , be for hiq own convenience, and that of the House, to defer the consideration of the Oude Papers, which' stood for that day, to •another day. A °short conversation. took I)lace between Lord FOLKESTONE, Mr. SHER-MANI the QIIANCELLDII of .the ,VACIIIMUER, • Mr. G. Pdtusoway, and Mr. SliAirti , E, which was con(11:14-ted in a spirit of n o .. cOminodation on both sides of the House, and ler niinated in the following - arratigernent :—The ad journed debate upon the Oude Papers was still furthe r adjourned to Wednesday next'; the Motion of Mr, . Su it/lint , relative sp the copenhagen :x{ cfitioti, whieh stood nuticol • itr- "Wednesday (this d ay ) , was m:paned to Friday se'nnight ; and an under standing established that, the third reading of the No further information has been received respect ing the Rochefort Squadron, nor is it, we be lieve, - verfealy ascertained that the Squndroti which was seen oil' Point De Gatt, in the Me diterranean, was the one which escaped Roeheicirt. Indeed it' is impossible that ;he same Squadron which was seen to the south-west of Madeira on the 24th could have been off Point de Gatt ota the 26th January .; but if we understand the accounts correffly, - the. French ships were not seen off Point de Gatt on the 213th, but they were seen to pass the Gut on the taith or 27th. 'NoW if it be true that a Fretich Squadron passed the Straits to the eastward on the 26th or 27th it must have been the Rochefort Squatlron. It has been suggested, how 'ever, and it is by no means improbable, that if any Enemy's! Ships were seen off Point. de' Gatt, they might have been' the Carthagena Squadron, which had ventured out to perform, a few evolutions. THE Instruetions givdh by the late Administra tion to Lord ST: VINCENT, when he went to the Tagus in 18013, Which will be found in a subsequent column, afford the most conclusive answer to the , charges which they. haver brought against the pre sent Ministers for the attack upon Copenhagen, be c,ause these Instructions are, almost in every respeft, situilar to those given to Lords CATHCART and rum. Lord ST. Vrtyca4.T was desired to offer the Vcrtuguese Government the assistance of this Country, if Portugal' should be able and willing to make effec tool exertions in her own defence, A similar offer was made by Lords CATIMARS Mid GAMBIER, pre vious fo' . the attack Opon Copenhagen. But if it. Cb".- appeared Vi''LOrd ST. VINCENT that _the Portuguese - ' Government: had not the means or the inclination to resist gle French, and that they would not adopt the measure of emigrating to, the , Brazils, his Lord ship was directed to take measurea for bringing away the Portuguese Flat and thißrazil Ships ; and in order to enable him to accomplish this object, he is informed that a body of Troops will be 'sent out to him . . The only difference, therefote, between the transactionstwo is, that the present Ministers sent a sufficient Force to accomplish the object, and the late Ministers, when they - sent Lord Sr. VINCEN; up - on a similar Miision to the Tagus; • promised to 'send the necessary force after him. No man CM for a mbnient doubt, - that if the Portuguese Govern- Mont; in 1806, had acted as the Danish Government ,did in 1807,. Lord Sr. VOICENT‘ would have been !bound by hii instructions to have landed his Troops (if he had had "any with him), to have bombarded Lis bon, and in short to have adopted every measure, however hostile and distressing tb the Portuguales that would have been necessary to enable him to bring away :he Portuguese Fleet.—And yet the same men that planned Lord ST. VINCENTs.B Expodi tion to Lisbon (if it deserves that name) represent .the Expedition to Copenhagen as an ad of the grossest. injustice ! Wit had not robm yesterday to 'make, any com .Ments 'uptin the three Motions submitted to the ofCemmons by Mr WHIT:MEAD, on Mon dailast, or on that Gentleman's speech upon the oc• casia btit, indeed, there is little necessity for any ,obsevations r un the subject, for even Mr. Wityr• :BREAD'S Ideas were by no means inclinod to agree with him as to those Motions, and because his arga men'ts .were .so ably and so ;decisively 'refuted by Ministers. It , cannot for a moment be supposed; iF Ministers saw any reasonable hope of opening a Negotiation for Peace, upon proper terms, that they would be restrained by a mere regard to punctilio from endeavouring to procure so desirable a result. But it cannot be conceived possible to attain it by lettitig BUONAPARTE know that we were induced by the restriEtion of our Commerce to solicit Peace from his band. 136UNAPARTE must feel, or rather the unhappy People under his controul must feel,,, the burthens which ho vainly attempts to intlia us by his ridiculous blockade,.and must express their discontents 'in such a manner as to excite some in his mind, before be. will think seriously of euter4 ing upon a Negotiation with- us for such a Peace as we can-assent to, with a proper regard to our.na- tional honour and maritime predominance. Till the period, therefore, shall arrive when he may deem .it his best policy to put - an end to those tyrannical restraints upon commerce - which-are felt all over the world, it shews nothing but the spirit of party to bring forward motions which can have no etfeitit but to embarrass the operations of Government, at n time thee imperiously demands its utmost yin gour ,and activity. We cannot conclude without adverting to some observations which were made by Mr. PASSING in the debate alluded to, and which are well entitled to the particular iitlCUtiOti of the public. Speaking of the Overture for Media.' tion on the part of Russia, Mr. CANN/NG justly contended, that we ought to lay nd stress up on the deClaration of General BUDIIERG, that. there were no Secret 'Articles in the Treaty of Tilsit' which ' !elated to this Country, as we never could permit . that MiniSter to decide on our concerns, particularly as it is known that the conclusion of that Treaty was followed by the surrender of the Seven Islands to France, a 'surrender which Russia had no right to make, as she was only a joint guarantee with this Country for the . ibdependence of the Republic of those Islands. This, :then, was an ea resulting from the Treaty in question Which related to this Coun try, and which plainly sheaved- rhd incompetency of, Russia to be considered as an impartial Mediator. But, as Mr. CANNING also properly , observed, why were we to depend upon the assertion of the Russian,. Minister as to the Secret Articles of the Treaty of Til-,' sit,or as to 1, he disposition of Buo N APARTE to conclude a 'peace ith,us. upon just 'and honourable pr:n- OPies,Whtin.ave ought 'to have known these Secret Articles,- and 'the principles upon which *JONA. , PASTS' •wtts.. inclined to treat, that we might jUdge for ourselves upon matters of . such essential importance not only to this Country but to all Europe 1-=.- ' But, further to justify oer distrust: of Russia as a Mediator, without such communications as we had a right to demand, Russia had refused to ratify its'own - proposition for a Treaty of Conamerce with this Countrl, which had been pending some months, and the prcyci of which Russia had received from this Coentry before the conclusion ot the Peace Of Tilsit. !Hence we might infer that her disposi tion towards us was obviously changed by that peace. These ilre such 'substantial grounds to justify the con- du& of the British Government with reaped tothe Un portaut subjed of peace, and Ow refusal to acaePt ORDERS IN COUNCIL. BLI.L. On the motion of the CIiANcELLoa of the Ex-. CHEQUER, the House resolved itself into a Coin mittee noon the Orders in Council Bill, Mr. WnAa. TON it the Chair. -, • . • • ~• Mr. WHITBREAD was proceeding to make some comments on the subject of the prohibition of the exportation of Peruvian Bark, When, upon 'being informed that this was not the measure to whiCh his observations applied, he desired to know when that Bill was to be read t second time, :and was in formed that it stood on . the Orders for that day, and wouki be committed oat Thursday; and re ported on Friday ; upon,. which Mr. WHITBOAD deferred his.objetEtions to the measure, till the mo , tion for going into the Committee on the Bill, or the Report. . • On the clause being read, which authorised three Commissioners of the Customs at the outports, to send any vessels arriving there under the Ail, that should have East India goods on board', to the Port of London, Mr. TIERNEY observed, upon the bard. ships that would arise from the execution of this clause, which would subjea neutrals, having ever so small a quantity of the goods described on board, to be sent to the Purt of London, and, after a short conversation, the CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER assured the Hooourable Member; that he would consider whether' a clanse might not be so framed as to remove the difficulties he adverted'to, in which case it might be added to the Bid upon' the Report. A lung conversation ensued on the mmute details of the Bill. ,Many amendments were proposed, and: a few adopted. The Report was ordered to be re ceived to-morrow. General GASCOINE stated, that this day a Petition had been put into his hand from his Contituents against some of the clauses in this Bill. From the lateness of the hour he was unwilling to present the Petition now. He therefore gave notice that he would present it to-morrow. Mr. TIEhNLY wished to know, whether the Chancellor of the Exchequer was or was not . of Opinion that the Liverpool Petition could be re ceived. ilte - CHANcta.t.Ort of the EXCLIERUER could not express .a determined opinion till he should have heard the Petition, •or the nature of it stated.. If it deprecated a ti ix proposed to be 'granted to his Majesty, as he understood it did, it could not' bd received. Gen. Giticor N E deprecated the anticipation of the Petition. It did not apply to the money clauses; though he was free to own, that from one person of high authority; whom he had consulted, be had learned that it could not be received. On the *cowl reading of the Bark Export Prohi. bition Bill, Mr. FizallaitT objected to' tb princi ple of the Bill. Some explanatory conversation passed between Mr. TIERNEY and Mr. Gott um Mr: GORDON', who is a holder of Bark to the amount of 100,000 lbs. weight, dedtare.d that there was no private unclgrstanding.between Government and the Traders.in Bark, who consented to the Bill on pure public grounds. Mr. M4L,LISH said, that the discretionary power of his Majesty's Ministers w allow the Exportation of Bark with, othef articles, did away the objection the ground of- humanity. The Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Thurs day. Thu other . Orders of the Day were disposed of.—Adjourned. MAILS. ASOLIVID+-1 Dublin, 2 Waterford.' Duz-4 Gottenburgh, Watortiod. THE SUN. •OL*M 2VIS AICBRI VALSUI.4I AUI)ZAT L 0 ND 0 N, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 2, 1808.,