The Sun. — London, England, 1808-06-18 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. P HOUSE OF PEERS. • FRIDAY, AMR 17. Mr. Clarke was .finally heard on the Roxburgh Appeal..--The farther consideration tomorroW. .The Brazil Trade, the Pilots'. Regulation, and the British' Fshery Bills,were brought tip from the Com mons, and read a first , The Bills on the table were advanced in their re ' apeetive stages. - His Grace the Mike or kritot, presented a Peti= tion in behalf of certain Freeholders of the County of Dumbarton, Sze. against the Bill for - suspenliog the Distillation from Corn.;---Ordered to lie on the table. ADMIRALTY DROJTS: , :Lord SuFFaI.K. rose purseant to notice, to make his Motion. on the sdbje& of the amount, of the Ad miralty Droits. The Noble Earl, re- . stated most of the arguments he had urged on former occasions on this point, but insisted, more particularly .on the seizure and detention: of the Danish Fleet, previous to a Declaration of War, as a proceeding both impo litic and unjust, and as of. a "corhplexion to blacken the national character in the eyes of Europe and the world. Instrutaed and warned; no doubt, by this example, the American Government had laid an em bargo on their shipping, chiefly frOm an apprehen sion that England might • aet towards them as she had acted in the "case of Denmark. As to theSe pro ceeds of Admiralty, they:were known to amount to a - considerable sum, and. it was, therefore, of the ut most importance to ascertain. distindly What the aee:tee as tinder the description of . Droits of the .; y, a fund to an immense amount might be idled, wholly at 'the, dispoil of his Ma . jesty's Minilters. Under that impres s ion, lie should move for - fte produetion of an % Account of the Amount of the Proceeds of the Danish Ships de tained before any Declaration of War, and vested as Droits of Admiralty. - Lord HAWKE§BURIC did , not altogether object to the motion, but did not see hbw at so advanced a pe riod .of the session, it could hesatiefaaorily complied With, The supposed amount et these proceeds seem ed hitherto to depend wholly On ..cdnjeeture.. He believed ic , was much exaggerated.. Ins point of CO, the sales of these ship!, had not yet t'lten place, so that it-was impossible to state with any degree of accuracy what the exact aiiioutitithight turn out to be. He Should therefore, unair - every circumstance 'of the. case, advise the Noble Earl to withdraw Ills motion. turd lioLLAim advifted his Noble Friend to with draw his motion, for the reasons urged by the Noble Secretary of State; not that he wished this important question to he thus put to rest ; 'hut that the dis cusSion, might be deferred 'till Session, when it might be more luny and'iatMadorily entered - into. Lord HAWICESBURY contended, whatever the amount of these proceeds might be, neither , the Court nor Government had derrved any advantage from theth. . . After a few words from Lor3 Holland, Lord Su-FFOLK withdrew his motion, agreeably to the wish of his - Noble Friend and the Noble Secre tary of State. LOCAL MILITIA, Lord HAWKESISUIti: moved the Order of the Day, for the House resolving itself into a Committee op 'on this Bill. In offering this motion to their Lord ships, he thought .proper fe observe,: that . powerful and superior as our Navy undoubtedly was to any naval force that could be brought (o.3ta against it, atilt our Navy, unassisted 'by a Military Force, was not judged sufficient to place the security, of the country beyond the reach of every hostile attack.— Forthe increase of ottr Military Force, and to allow a .more free and extended scope to its exertions., was the present measure framed; and he was happy to add, that as far as it 'was' known throughout the country ; the principle upon which it proceeded had been very generally appolved. If it trenched at all on the Volunteer SyStem, it was not from any dis, appr,ohation of the zeal and, spirit 1W which the . Vo lunteers mast be eclinowledged tt:Fhas;p acted, but !roil) a conviction th:tt encouraging the One.. system, most counterat the stfccess of the other, -which, after due conslderatibn, ,was undor every circumstance of the couiftV Vest calculated to ntzswe the objeat.which Government had hi view, and whiCh the general situation of the ~.Einpire called tor. • Lord SELKIRK preferred the system of defence which he had so often recommended to their Lord ships ; again entered into a minute detail of all its beariugs. Lord u.U.cKLN OBAaISHIRIE, upon" , ON, whole, was willing to support the 1.41 ; beeattslke.,!lFlt the ne cessity of adopting some measure for. the increme of the milititry, means of the country: lie thought, lioWeVer, that the measure .now' before the House might be much Unproved by bringing over to this country some of the Irish -.Militia Iteo ° inients, and substituting in their place some of the English Mi litia. Lord, MotaA only. objeited , to the measure, inas much as he conceived it-to discountenance and dis courage the Volunteers:- At a moment and under circumstances like the . present;,- , the . Country stood peculiarly in need. of a torso animated by genuine patrotisin, and by an ardour which Only tne..zeal of patriotisrit (mild The .present was' a Inca. sure of compulsion, anti as such, could sway men only bye cold sense 61 duty, , which would not put them on a level with the present 'einergency. Lord. HAWILESBURY . , Meant no • disparagement whatever to the Volunteers.. Lord :liot.t.is ND objeeted.to the Bill. There were two Objects which in the present circumstances it was desirable to obtain. The first was to crdate a fhrce animated with a popular and pkriotic feeling thf3 neat to create a force well diieiplined and effec tive. Neither of these.objea s, in hi, opinion, did the Bill under consideration secure. Its only ten- Aeticy waft to render Those tuhjeded to its operation bad citizens, witlsotxt making them good soldierS. commented particularly on that clause of .the Ali by which, as he stated, the individuals hallotted +.vere vrecluded from availing themselves'of thens sistance of / their friends in the provision of a substi mte and contended that the clause was calculated to favour the selfish, and to depress the disinterested. Lord SIDMOUTH declared himself to be in favour of he Bill. Great Britain had at the pittietu,t. motueni .near 500 - ,000 men in he naval and military ser vice (exclusive of Voluntoets), a proportion of .her population which exceeded precedent. He did not believe that this regular fort* could be much in creased; or, that it it were practicAble, it would be wise to increase it. Ott this account it was tharhe entertained sentiment's favourable to before the House, which went to provide a force in aid of the regular establishment. He Witi att%ious, how ever, in addition to these meals, that the plan ad, vised by a Noble and Illu‘trious Statesman (the Earl of Selkirk), in a publication with which he had lately favoured the world, should be preserved; and that all males from the age of 18 to that of 21, should be trained to military exercise. He also recommended that the Militia of England and Ire land should be consolidated, and that Officers should be appointed by the King; the Officers of Local Militia still being Gentlemen of local rank and con sideration. The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM supported the Bill in general, but objealtd to that clause which sub jetied the Local Militia to the Mutiny Aft. He stat ed his intention Of proposing in the Committee an amendment to that clause, by which it should be provided, that no senten9eot a Court Martial, for in tliaiug corporeal punishment, should be carried into effe6t until submitted to his Majesty or the Corn tnander in Chief. ' Lord Mui,4IIAVE defended the Bill. With resrea to the clause to which the Noble Baron had ascribed such a selfish character, it Merely went to prevent insurances, which had been ever found most nris hievoqs to individuals engaged in them. As to what the Noble Marquis statud of the Mutiny Bill, it 'milk be evident to the House that it was indispensible to preserve a due subordination ; -if the ranks of - the Local Militia %yen:, tilled from the lowest classes of society, such a check would be absolutely necessary ; if they consisted in a great measure of individuals of a superior description, their condua would, be such as-to render any exercise. of the provisions of the Bill superfluous. The LOAD CHANCELLOR, adverting to what had been said on the subject of insurance, requesthl Noble Lords to inquire what had taken pace their own families in these cases. 'They would find that frequently those of their servants who had nut insured were ballotted, while those who had insured, escaped ; *l4:rom this circumstance it might fairly be . inferred that the insurers had some influence in the arrangement of the business. After, various explanations 110(11 Lords Holland, Sidthouth, Buckingham, ,and Mulgrave, the House resolved itself into a Committee. The different clauses of. tbv Bill underwent a dis cussion. Eventually' they were all- agreed to, and the House having resunied, the Report was ordered to be received on Monday. , Adjouiued at Twelve o'clock until to-morrow. DOUSE OF COMMONS. ER WAY, JUNE 17. Sir JOHN ST. CLAiii brought up the Report of the Broad Wheele4 Coonnittee, which * wits ordered to lie on the table. Mr. JENKINSON moved for, ,and obtained leave to bring in a Bill to indemnity all personi concerned in carrying into etrea the Act of last Session,. for OM pletin3 the Militia in the Tower Hamlets. The Bill was then brought in, read a first time, and or dered to be read a second time to-inorrow. Mr. FonEa brought up the Irish -Vote Of Credit Bill which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time. to-morrow. • .A Messa g e from the Lords informed th e House, that their .Lordships had agreed to the - English Loan Bill, the Irish Revenue Regulation Bill,..and the Lunatics' AsylOm Bill,. without any Ameultuents. The Irish Spirit Duty -Bill was read a third time, and passed, as were also the Irish Malt .DUty Bill, the Chatharn -Lines Bill, -the Irish Customs Bill, and - the Land Tax commksioners'.Bill. The third reading . of the Sprit Regulation Bill was put off to Monday. - Mr. VILLIEUS moved the second reading of.the Copy Rights Bill. Attar a short conversation between Mr. Aber cromby, Mr. Villiers, Mr. Parnell, and Mr. W. Wynne, the Bill was 'read a second time, and or .dered to he committed on WednesdV.next. LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND moved the Order of the Day tor the further Considcratiou of the Scotch Local • Militia Bill, the amendments were agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read a third time on .Monday. The . Home resolved itself into a Committee, on the Act relating to the Idportation of Silk, when the Chairman having been dire4ted to move for lease to bring in a Bill, to - allow tOr a time to be - li- Anited the ImpOrtation of - Italian Thrown Silk, on the House being resumed, he moved for'and obtain ed leave to bring in a Bill aceordinglx„ . Mr. Rostrbrought in a Bill ,to alla4 the Importa tion of Corn, Grainiand Flour, from Enmities Colo nies, or the United States of America, into are north of the West Indies ; also a Bill to continue the bonoties to •vessels engaged in the Southern Whale FislNries; which- were read a first lime, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrovr. Mr, ASHLEY COOPER brought up the Report of the Subdivision Clerks' Bill, which was agreectto be read a third time to-morrow ; the Cape of Good Hope' Bill was also reported, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. Mr..ROSE gave notice that he should on Monday trove for leave to bring in a Bill relative to the Woollen-Mantalatture. The Expiring AEti Bill was reported, and ordered to be react a ;bird time'to-rnorrow. ' Mr, WARDELL gave notice that he 'should. on Thurday. next submit a Motion to, the douse on the subject of the Clothing of the Army. The Colllllllttee otk;the Assessed Taxes Bill was, on the niot;on of the'CrrANcw,Lott of the .CI.IE• SUER, put Wl' till Tuesday. The Ale ,Licence Bill was read a third time and passed, as was also the Prize Capture. Bill, the Prize Goods, Bdl, and, the Post Horse Farming Duty Bill. The Coffee Customs, and the Coffee Excise Du ties Bill, passed through - Committees, and were or dered to be reported on Monday next. Mr. Wn ItToNt brought 'up the Report of. the Stamp Duty sin,. when the Amendments having beengone through, Mr. BIDDULNI opened a clause which he meant to offer on the third reading Of this Bill,. providing, that the duty. should not appiy to sales for which bargains ro.ly be bona firld contra&ed beftire 'the passing of 0 4 1. i Ai% Plough the purchase ar.vi not have been completed. He called the attention of the House to a class of persons upon whom the Oper!tioti of the Bill would be severe, the persons win) have money on trust to lay out in purchases. Mr. I-lusxissos brought up a Clause, to provide that the duty_ should not attach to copyhold convey ances, where the surrender may be wade- without any Consideration.• This Clause was agreed -to; - and inserted in the The Bill was then ordered to 'be read a third timeon Monday next. Air,, LONG brought up the • Bill for the Im provement of the Streets near. Westminster : l44B and - both House,sof Parliamertu,—Read a first time, and 'ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. Mr. Rost broilght uli a Bill to allow the Importa tion, for a time to be limited, of Italian thrown Silk, fi•om Ports in amity with his Majesty, in Neutral Shim—Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. The Committee on the Annuities' Bill viai iqt off ~. , to Monday next. The Lottery Bill was ordered to be committed to morrow, • and the Brazil Postage Bill to ,be com mitted on Monday. , In the Committee ot Suppli, the followirtg status were voted • For building of Naval Asy:uni, 35,0001. On this:Vote, •StrC. Po,l4;"objeded to the grant of more money,. whilst there , Was a large am re maining in the hands of the Commissioners. Mr. Rost replied, that the sum in the hands Of the Commissioners was not public money, but a contribution from individitals, transferred to this In stitution, on condition that a certain number of chil dren sho'dd be received on their recommendation into the institution. If this money were not to be granted, the buildings wwld be at a stand, because only a small part of the sum of 50,0001.- already granted by Parliament, now remained in the hands of the Commissioners.. Sir CiIARLO, PoLE contended that the Institution wits not an Asylum for time encouragement of the Navy, as neithe,r the Auditor nor the Surgeon of the Institution had ever been.in the Navy. . The C 1.1.0,Lt ,the IF.xcifEoute.a observed, that though thuso two persons should continue dor-, ing life officers of this .thstitutien, as one thousand children of seamen were to be provided - for in the #.sylom, it could not but be' an important naval . obj • '['he Vote was then agreed to after a 'le* mrds . from Mr. Windham, Ditr. Rose, and Sir C. Pole. Ta Diticharge the Arrears of an'Annuity to the late Duchess of Glgttcester - £ 495 Military College at Sandhurst, in the County of _ _ Surrey . - - co,ooo To General Marlin, according to the Report of thei . Comtnittee upon his Petition, a 3 compensationi for the loss sustained by him of his groperty in• - the:State of Virginia, in America, as RepreseAta. tjvc of the late Lord Fairfax - so,oati The House then resumed, and the Report was or dered to be received to-mot row. • In the Committee of Ways and Means, a duty of Bs. (Ad. was voted. upon every gallon of spirits distilled front grain, imported from Ireland into great Britain, for a limited. time ; Bs. sd. on all ditto dis tilled from sugar ; a duty of Hs. sd. per gallon upon all spirits, distilled from sugar, imported from Scot land into Ireland ; and a duty of ss. per gallon uPon all spirits distilled from other substances imported into Ireland from Scotland., The House then re sumed, and the. Report ‘vas ordered to be received to-morrow. The Vaymasters Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow: Mr. WELLFSLEV brought up the Six Millions E3t chequer Bills Bill, which was read a tirst time, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. CAkNATIC QUESTION. - Sir THOMAS TURTON, in rising pursuant to *his notice, felt it 'necessary to premise that, whatever might be his individal impression, it was not his in tention, in consequence of his deference to thede cision of the House, to submit any Resolution direaly .tending to criminate the charaCter '-of" the Noble Person whose Measures gave rise to the Reso lutions ha had to propose. But he considered- it necessary, in vindication of the justice of.this . Cittin4 try; that the House - should' come to some Resolu tioh respecting the nature and circumstances of the transactions in the Crnatic, and also declaratory of its intention to discountenance such proceedings. hereafter. The Honourable Baronet, therefore, re serving 'hiinself for that opportunity whith Wooldibe afforded him by the indulgence Of the House in.re;. ply, should then content himself with moving these Resolutions. The first .Resolution was merely_de claratory of the deposition of Ali Hassan, by Azim 'ul Doulah, through the influence of the Company, and his consequent detention in the custody s of Azina ul Doulah, till the period of his death in the year 1802. The second affirmed, that in the opinion of that House, a religious adherence to its engagements hereafter, was the best means of securing th,e Com . parry's power in India, and pledged the House to the appointment of a Committee to enquire into..the transaction, as well as whether any, and'what com pensation could bemasle to the deposed family: On the question being .put-on the first Resolution, diYision took pface, when the numbers were, For the Resolution-. Ayes . - it. Against it—Noes _ • 34 ' Majority - —23 ,The Resolution was of course negatived:- On our re-admiSsion to the Gallery, we found that, just as the House 'was about to divide on the second Resolution, , t • •, Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY rose to cuter into the dis cussion ot the question. I-le acquitted the Noble Lords, to whose conduct the Resolution referred, of having had any corrupt or personal motives, but he contended that they had acted in a most haistakeii„ manner, as well for the interests of India as of The COuntry to which they were subjeet. It was the, duty of that HOuse to ascertain, whetlier they bad . not conduaea themselves upon principles ot false ambition, and the grossest violation of justice. The House was then to decide, not upon the condu& of the Noble Persons to whom he had referred, but upon the - character of the British Nation. The question now -was,-whether they should make these ads their own. It appeared to him, that this was a Most serious and important question to the British Nation, .titld be deeply regretted the division that had taken place, Persons of disaffetied minds had, often endeavoured to lower that Assembly in the, estisnatihn of the public, bht eirctiinsfance cos so deeply .atfeCt- its charaCter as this, when the int. pression should go abroad, that only eight Islembcr more than were indispensably- necessary for the trans aaion of the most ordinary business bad attended upon so important a discussion. These transatlioui , when they should becomeanatter of history, would furnish as instruaive and important lesions the condua of the Pizarros and Cortez, in America. But what appeared to him most extreordirary was , that on a discussion of so much importance,and which had been so often before the House, no one of his Majesty's Ministers bad expressed their sentime nts, :The Hon. Member went into a detail of the parti cular circumstanchs of the case, add,, on the fads re ' corded, maintained that. there was no ground 1 0 f the interferente of the British Government in did manner in which Lord Wellesley had interfered. There was in point of justice no ground for stispca" ing , the Native Government. It in point of peheY this proceeding was thought necessary, the motive ought to be 'openly avowed. It might be politic in the views of Government at the titne to supersede tin European Government by an Asiatic Government ; but if that was the object, the principle should be avowed. To axiake a clairge of treason without proof of treason, was to lay an offensive foundation for a gross and groundless proceeding.--W the Nihole view of the case, independent of.any persousl consideration of Lord Wellesley, or of the other Noble Lord who was aaively concerned (Lord Clive), he was of opinion that' with a view to ths hono ur and interest of the British nation-, the iruns o f io us ill the Carnatic ought to be pronounced, 11414 tine pable, and worthy of the censure of the brui s h liament and the British nation. Lord CA - STLERIiAGH highly..klambd the Honour able and Learned Gentleman who spoke last, lar ts nct having come forward in an earlier stage of this bu siness to state his disapprobation of the coodua et Lord , Wellesley. The case was now in feet d e ' tided, and it was unpleasant to have so great an authority brought forward at a time. when the de cision of the tiouse anti of the,Country was alrently fixed. The obligations of the Carnatic Geyer': ment to the British were proved on the Treaty of 1792 ; and by this Treaty the .Nabobs werebutlaa not to enter into anyopolitical -correspondence with' out the concurrence of the British Government.-• The Papers which were before the House, however , furnished proofs of a. correspondence contrta)_,' these principles. On this ground, and on th e v' e of all the circismstances before the House, he or posed she motion. Mr. Siteausszt had been absent only five minutes from the speecli of the Noble Lord, and was inharer ed that the whole time of his absence had been eta ployed in an attack can hi m . fi e was anx i o us to prove that the charges we Made qtr theGovernmen.g. or France:for its proceedings in every quarter, could not with justice be applied to Britain for its ings in any quarter. He adverted to the language held by -the late Chief Justice of India (Sir, John Anstrntlier) on the impeachment of Mr. Hosting' and contrasted it with the language and the priae''' ples assetted by that Hon. and Learned Gentleman at present. He took a view of the general circuorr stances and facts .of the case, condemning the c° ' dua of Lord Wellesley throughout, and concludedWellesieY with saying, that the Report of Lord being about tJ take a prominent part in Achninistrat' ttou, far frcico dissuadin*or deteOng him.tiora prep proceed inz.the investigation of his condua India, NOS aft additional motive in pressing that inquiry and invesf ligation, as 'the Noble I ; ord ought to be per cabs" crear of imputation before he could take any pall to the Government. • Mr. 1: u4LER Contentled:thattliii was a most ex' traordinary discussion and 'made on the side more a question of party than of principle . Dr. LAWRENCE asserted, that lay the manner t ! . .* which these; questions had been discussed in .t f 3 House, we bad 'abdicated the Government of low a ' The Honourable and teamed Gentleman then „pro ceeded in detail to establish the reprehensible nature of all the transaaions of the Carnatic, .and 'insis t ?" that the India Company, its the usurpation of 'Man ul Doulah, was contrary to lustice, and an instance of oppression. opposite .Mr. Wistoitsst followed on the same side,. and argued at some length' to prove, that ,though a 'PI : joiity may decide against this Resolution and e l 4 " this subject, the House wotild but bring cilot4 racq upon itself, whilst the capers upon the tabl e w °ll open to the inspeotiou of the Country tflid Qt ild !.ope. . Sir THOMAS TU,ETON replied generally , and °t some length, to the observations and argkunco , 14 . 0 had been urged against his Resolution.. . . A division then took place. ~ . For the Resolution, Aye's ' :9 Against iti Noes . ' . 97 IA Mr. WALLACE then rose and' said, that atter iv '- had passeden'ihis and former discussions, it , v 4 . 1 ., ° ; 1; necessa , ry„for him to introduce the Resolution %ro a he was now going to move, with any preface f_l;.. should content him s elf simply r with moving the IT lowing Resolution : " Resolved, That it is the opinion of this 11 01 : 56 that the Marquis WELLESLEY and Lord CLIO , 0 e t s h p : eceo i r r i , t co : ndoa relative to the Carnatic, were 4 ` 14 - 1 '.',', promotes:tihethleyep e b r y m a a n ne a n r s i e o e u t s iri z o e ,, a l andwelfare', ia solicitud e rt,, British possessions in India." did.-`` Sir JAMES HALL supported the motion,- bu t ;,; not think that, after the long,and unmerited PL II9 : . ,',, cutions. which Marquis WELLESL - EY had been e c: ' .; posed to in return for the signal services he had I ' l , ll tiered the country, the Resolution went far 0)00.6 le andiot .5,1.. to express the sense which' Parliament, mid. the r . Was sure the nation 'at large, elnerlaioed Ot sild ~ able and meritorious -conduct of that di stin il u Nobleman. . ~. Sir T. T UR TON said he had a trifling amendni t e . t n e ; .:; to propose, which was to leave. out .the wnid 6 a . . ... Ale' word" influenced," and to insert the follo w ing • i n viokino i India, in contempt of all Treaties , an d `' 34 (ty . a desire to extend the British Territories. 4 : . ' l . of the national character." hi th INGToN and Mr. H. FITZGERALD ; after W—Ch . The Amendment was supported by Mr. s.. Lv 51/ e . 1 House diVided on it— , s Ayes • • • • • Noes 9 • ' - sd , Majority for Lord Wellesley 19 _ et ,,,,t4 ' --- moved the original_queo.— 6 , 1*. WALLACE; then moved th - di ,o 1 the ' Vote of Approbation • when the 090° Apes N ocs