The Sun. — London, England, 1818-04-10 00:00:00

s o IP, )fijillBl a,4tount in stoc k of the sums thus issued eing nenasited as security - for th e ir p a y ment , o Vix" e l o 'egoer Bills to th e mri same aoet as the 'tars. e ,„ m. nut ---.7 oaoker, theref ore , meaning, to issue mall .1 would he required, after the sth otioly, - o B2°, to forw• i to the Commissioners ft the —e tltta nio of d i rt National Debt, Exchequeßills I.„''..ttl.)alnuotnitut of the small not i e l - s s fe i r ss s u t( e i r c i k . t t o o : I; i y t b lo c "" e a l l : Ito the Bank, or to tra nsfe r s 1 sw., I►neut.1 ► neut. When thew notes 1.. onl:l i ti t :: i e titsie , they would bear on them, in act i i '"1 , 1 , 4 1 ! Stamps, an attestation of dive teems lav e,iii. bee n corn lied with, executed insuch a Ilan 7 m e- tact it COUld not easily he imita'erl. This, it tfu e e , i 4 r . etl to him,- would affortlyerfct seco a ri n ty op tu_r i t , si r "'tiers of th em. 'lwo objectionsof h; te character had been urged o ',lin against 0 t i ,. 4 . Plan. H e had been told that tlis wand( cause t: lie"blhcrease of paper money as vat as our . l . n ., l t i lii 1 . He would answer this by saying, Itre:,:: ti I) ,, c)ss ible that the paper throvn into ci giveni 4 4. """ 1 d he greater where security was t re. itial" Where no security was gven. A I lc a. s to th e Banker issued notes at his a b i I the t i e l l t , - ,:, a nd his issues were ooh limited t hen of the public to receive tt v y vi t u . e i t e u ke:, e t becarne excessive. He cootl not think_ or t ce he.t.r.ei(l he proposed Would came them to f 11 l „P,aPer more than they coon do at pr . e ) s i t:n o t... D AT , e -leer objection was, that tin circulatu ,ro_ l fiti.oedte"l'ler 5/. in value was not su ffi ciently I the t ela s - t " engage the Banker to issue it on that thio, -IProposed at all. He was of „pinion, sma. _ no tes lli . ll ie Banker would prefer issuing ll watt, . . ~T 4 L e onut giving security , li re ° lihr still issue as m a ay (complying with li e lir"Posed co n di t i ons ) as the wants of the , pub ‘stare(l:6red ; and the superior character o. these Ps Ps;,:ti"es Would serve him as well . as c the aura'''lli.3 larger notes, as he vv , o , nit l bins,st u l l l e :s c s a e e s p s t i s i all n 'bra e ntages the law ever ga.e. would be tat, Particular instances, and nothing Ile 4 ,, f ront hi n x hick he had any right to claim. ' Itio 1 ' s i Lan proceeded to Ilie l , 1 , 1 ., 't Hollowable Gent en t'f tallness of this arrangement by a series 1%,:"Ilar arguments. One consequence of the eons;,Which to hint appeared an arival ‘ l . l , a ,, -;e te o:l3 . tie tie," e nce, would he this: it would have _ ,' ilig ' o r ' ) engag e men of large property m bane l'''ha e ns. and to exclude others f . rom them tt n . rt e°'dd not give the required sectotty. gfi od n ey thus given to the country would . b ' e n as Ilti that, 6 .n01d well be desired, for he a • tat,' would wish for a metallic currency, to the felt exclusion of paper money. It 4,4" MettombrauCe to be obliged to s p onl y e ~l a i u. . woauld and Per n t all sums of money in cash. . 'tie gal„ to be reraineo, but this in its tiontrin lae-41"e ought to be brought as close l wh t ic h t e t I)e,'lttesauvtals as possible. The etlatt',°,w siiggested wonld save the lu p oi l d n e . r l of ro a_ lid,"'Y time front suffering through any it, :It saecolatiotm of the Bankers, and HI would P it lves 404;44 lustances save the Bankers. themselves ' I N e "aging, in such improvident spe.e notl t i a, • 6 The meastire be had stated would here. fo re letlect till July 1820, and they woult ‘ i v, t s cal_ e..."lata'ad'tntwo years to prepare for it. "iout 4 I'll'4 th e notes used by country it Bankers .a w °lll .Ist 'fur tw o years without being too muc h 14 1)1it ,. ? i i ll erefr,re any notes issued after this 14 , 1 ,` , :x t e v i n o t t - . '' oe l i ssue d with notice of the propose d i,, "ILI h, I C and the notes' already in circulation .. - ato „ fr . : . worn out before the plan was carried sti,t:l!);,,a7t,,,,tt.;l:oolllthlat inlto inconvenience could Pns" of due notice to enable k y ry It mkvrs '' t . o a regulate their proceedings._ kgic.""toming the restriction rupon , the Bank of ,tlee,:llll.for one. year longer, every thing else coo . et - (' th the i . liteserv,, circulation footing, an d any 1444, to on i ts present, The I re ~u s s hock would be prevented. The , m t e n st a - . k en . liich h e m posed would be an efflc _ ti l tle4'tY a g ai nst -I t r i ' m i e over-issue of p a l' e "., ."" , l ii),,: t.(4 e ii Was so f ar sate from the objec . ,-; 41 1)1.. til"'e gained so much dread o t exei,ss who ewe' ~,iv . ut paper currency. 'At the same time, Is relief ''l, i llg 4 secure currency, it would ...e a l l ' l tti e l l "ldie w hieh could not be obtained 'Y r,e -itil: to k metallic circulation, with all the un ‘4l-.""ces that attend it. The two measures e ' li e L i 'at exioc was about to propose had a strong each other; a , ii t, and VyOnid mutually assist - • )0.., 1 1 1 ' v: i'vst 'iction by being continued for al . lu e "it a n , . 1""t" -ki -'4 ' W "id '. •-• t the circulation from stil 1, '., sodden change.lt would t t , e ee s ,. II city that much attention should be given 1114„le arrangemeut of the various parts of the :liteiiPeclittg Ulu issues of Country Banks , and '" lit feet ' th at every p recaor ion should be taken 41 t tl e , e tit time public being exposed to impositions . 14*iiettne samps. With respect to the way in e et l tii'e intemests of Country Bankers would be '''' 1 1 : ( t by his plan. it was perfectly satisfactory ; ''' l l 1-, eia;culmted that it would afford them an ad- I tit l t ) 1,4; Profit Of two or three per cent. beyond : 41 4,..' 1 t t eh they would be entitled to on time diei 41trI(''. the Stock. For the present,he would not :111 b i llitl 'et jot° t he sumhject ,but would reserve him.. Fi k , - 4n s‘ , . , la t i %el any objections -i4 y, "n% as to the plan which might be neces. lit, Th.. • !' m r 1 r observa i, ", 1 itetore, wonout any ,urt le . .' N R le 1110Vell two Resolutions :-- 4 ` First, 'That Il'eafilti,l'e ()pillion of the Committee, that leave , e !'ilt . ,‘, "e give n to bring in a Bill, authorizing the ""I:t.4nce of the Bank Restriction Act for a " br ii ° be limited. • Second, That leave be given 441 1 1 11 i n a Bill to authorise Bankers in England (.11 rit e ""d to issue Promissory N o t es , on t h e se - I '''til l Y , ( : )f Stock ' ill time Public Funds or other Go- Al,tsit Seco' ities." 1 11 o i: TlP•lttvev said, that the great importance l 'er ~, Plan must make it impossible for any Meal tha - , () "ce to offer observations upon it; for al tlit'u it had been clearly and distinctly stated by t ‘ v 'halicellor of the Exchequer, yet it involved h t . t , 1 ku ti ,. of the most important questions, and I le et' out into many art angements of a new lit e peen out nature. But he must observe, that Itltieb4"se was' called upon to adopt this plan, 01 Ili • would effect at) enttre change in the system 1)0 4 e rorrency of the country, not upon the re eith,:o. recom meodation of a C omm i ttee, b ut 3,, y - "t any Committee on the subject —without 4(ll,eePtevious inquiry whatever —on the mere kt 4 ' of the Chancellor of the Exchequer— its,stho'll`'iee. too, h e it remembered, given —con 'lie given, in direct contradiction to all Previous predictions. It was proposed to make an entire change in the circulation, and also to continue the Bank Restriction Act.—Whe ther the design of the first of these proposed measures was.to sweep away front circulation the whole Country Bank paper, and to substitute in its room the paper of the Bank of England, or whether the object was to promote and increase the circulation of country bank paper. lie declared he was utterly' at a loss to guess. 'But at least it was pretty clear in the outset that no great favour was intended towards the country hankers. The hardship was, that by one word from the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, the character of the whole country bankers in the kingdom was to be tainted for two years. No man was more disposed than himselfro blame the excessive issue of paperby country banks; but certainly lie had always consi dered the moderate circulation of that species of a currency as a national benefit ; and up to this night lie had all along heard the Chancellor of the Exchequer speak highly of the advantages which the public derived from country banks. But now all at once the Right Hon. Gentleman changed his tone when talking of these establishments. It' seemed that they were not (according to his plan) to be allowed to issue small notes unless they de posited secto ity either in Stock or Exchequer Bills, for the amount of their issues. But it was very plain to him that no One would give. security in sock, and that for the very reason stated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. For it they wished to have 1001. worth of small notes, the value of the stock which they would be obliged to give as a security, would, according to the price which stock might then be expecte4 to bear, amount pro bably to 2001.; and even at the present price, would be no less than 1601. It was therefore clear enough that no security was likely to be _given in stock. Perhaps however he would beanswered by its being said that if they did not choose to give the security in stock they might give it in Exchequer Bills. Very true ; and if he understood the plan, the notes to be issued on such security would bear a stamp, denoting that the security f •r them was to be 'wind in Exchequer Bills—and if so, then he would be glad to know in what respect the circu lation of notes tr.oi .eg a stamp of that kind would differ from a citeulation of Exchequer Bills ? One other observation as to this plan, and he was done. It w..s proposed that five pound notes, and all others for larger sums, were to rest on the indivi dual security of the Banker who issued rhea.— Now, C;is was plainly an injury to the Banker, because all such notes would be driven out of circulac ion ; for who would take a five pound note on the sole security of a private banker, when he might have five one pound notes secured by Bank Stock or Exchequer Bills It was idle to sup pose that five pound notes would circulate under such disadvantages. A man mast be really out of his senses who would take them when he could get the others. So much for the present, as to the merits of the plan now brought forward. How long this plan had been in agitation, or when it had been' resolved upon, or to %slot others it had been pre ferred, was not stated. But he believed the Right Hon. Gentleman could not deny that another plan had not only been in agitation but actually resolved on, although upon the advice of some skilful persons it had been drought necessary to abandon it.. He alluded to the much-talked-of project of Stock Debentures. These were now quite given up. But, de mortals nil nisi bonzini ; therefore lie would say no more about the De benture plan, for it was now dead anti gone.— But as to the plan now propoed, it deserved the most serious consideration. lt could not he satis factory to that class of personS whose interests were chiefly concerned, that it should 'be de cided upon merely on debates, without a re gular inquiry upon the subject. It was true, the plan was not to be carried into execution for two years. And 'as to this; he must say, that he looked with much jealousy on the plan. — Why was the House called upon - now to approve a plan which was not to he acted upon till two. years hence ? The only reason which had been given was, that it would be inconvenient to coun try bankers, as it would affect their issues, unless they had so long a notice, as by the time the plan was carried ietta execution all the notes now in circulation would be worn out. If there was any, force in this reason, it tended only to this, that the notes on the new plan most be new notes issued for the purpose. But he really could not see why it would not answer quite as well to have the old notes stamped ; for if they had the stamp, they would be just of the same value, whether new or old ; and if this was the case, the force of the reason waS gone. Upon the whole, the question was one of too much importance to be decided on - without an inquiry by means of a Committee. Therefore, if the Chancellor of the Exchequer would not agree to appoint a Committee, he should feel it his duty to move that one should be appointed. The next proposal of the Right Honourable Gentleman related to restrain ing the Bank. In submitting this proposal, the Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to express himself with some embarrassment, and said that he had hitherto hoped that something might have occur red to enable the Bank to resume cash payments. As to this he could only say, that when in the beginning of this Session the Right Honourable Gentleman expressed a doubt whether the Bank would be able this year to resume cash payments, it was quite certain they would not be resumed— and from the moment the doubt found its - way into the Right Hon. Gentleman's mind, from that moment all- doubts were removed from the mind of every other person. Then came the old story, that next year the Bank would certainly be able to resume its payments. On this the Right Hon. Gentleman's assertions were quite positive ; but with all due civility, he must take leave to say, that he did not believe. one word of it.. This was what had been said all along. One other yetir was always to be the last. Bat if the restriction was continued, as ti6w proposed, for one other year, it was quite evident that next year the Right Honourable Gentleman would come for ward with the best possible reason, and call for one year more, and would ask the House how they could think of the resumption of cash pay . silents then, _when in a year the fine new plan was to be carried into effect ; so that, in short, no man of decent habits would be able to refuse the ,`continuance for the other year. But thou, - the Chancellor of the Exchequer declared that he was now perfectly sincere, and said he could answer for the sincerity of the Bank. As to this, he believed that the Bank was just as sincere in its wishes for resuming cash payments as the Right Hoe. Gen tleman. But then, the Bank existed only for the purpose of making profits ; and the great source of these profits was the circulation of its paper. In short, the Batik never would resume cash pay- Anesits until it was forced to do so by the House. The Right Honourable Gentleman knew that he trembled to think what would . happen if the restriction was removed—he knew the im mense variation which it would occasion in the price of almost every commodity. The true test of the sincerity of the Bank was its measures. Now it was notorious, from the returns presented to the House, that the Bank, instead of preparing of late years, as it ought to have done, for the re sumption of cash payments, by diminishing the. amount of ita issues, had increased those issues to no less than two millions and a half more titan the greatest amount of its issues at any former period—and this too when it was admitted on all hands that the proper preparation for cash pay ments was a gradual diminution of the paper cur rency. The truth was, that bet weer the Batik and the Chanceller of the Exchequer there were mutual accommodations. The Bank made advances- to the. Chancellor of the Exchequer, and so enabled him to make flourishing speeches about the low rate of interest ; and while lie matte flourishing speeches they made flourishing .profita. On the present occasion the Right (lint. Gentleman had told the House all that happened 27 or 2S years ago, and even so tar back as the time of King• William, and so downwards to the present time. But what he (Mr. T.) wished to know, was not what had happened, but what was ,to happen after the Ist of July next. As to what was said about the foreign loans, he could not look upon it as in any degree satisfactory. Speak lug at present merely from' general r ecollection, he could not agree that such loans affected the price of bullion. Even the Austrian loan had not raised the , price of gold ; and the thing which had affected the price of that metal most mate rially was the landing of a small body of French in Wales. But the Right Hon. Gentleman tried to persuade the House that there was among the public an absolute abhorrence of gold as a carrency, and that Bank Notes were preferred as more convenient. But it was necessary to make out some case for the House, and therefore the Right Hon. Gentleman gave a-list of all the persons who had gone out of the country, and made out, that of those who went abroad 12,000 had remained, and that those drew from the coun try annually 2,500,0001., which, by the bye, was a very large calculation. And then so much was said about the foreign loans, aed how the Bank could not possibly resume its payments in cash till those loans were adjusted. As to the amount of those loans, nothing was known by the House but what the Right Hon. Gentleman was pleased to tell them. What be (Mr. T.) wished to know. was, the amount of money which these loans would really he the means of removing front the country ; and as to this, he would not consent to take the word of the Chancellor of thti Exchequer, who could only make a vague estimate of it. What the House ought to insist upon was the appointment of a Commit tee to ,investigate and ascertain the truth with respect to this most important point. Would the Right Hon. Gentleman consent to a Committee ? If not, then he or some of his friends would move that one should be appointed. He did' not believe one single word of what was said about the Re striction Act being only to be continued for a single year longer : he did not believe one word of this. The Bank were completely the masters of the Right Hon. Gentleman. He (Mr. T.) had said so t %so years- ago, but he only guessed it then ; now he was convinced of it. The only reason why it had not been sooner declared that the Restriction was to he continued was, that it' it had been told by the,, Right Honourable Gentleman all hif bubbles would have burst.— The object in keeping it a matter of doubt was only to raise the Funds, and to lower the rate of interest. As to the doctrines now maintained by the Right Honourable Gentleman, with re spect to the rate of interest, lie must observe, that they were directly the reverse of those on which he had formerly supported some of his measures. The ground on which the Right Hoo. Gentleman, some years ago, supported his appro priation of part of the Sinking Fund, was, that if that Fund was allowed to increase, it would ac consulate so rapidly, as in the end to produce very injurious effects by lowering the rate of interest. But now the doctrine was quite changed. The whole object and boast of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in those days, was to lower the rate of interest. The low rate of interest in this coun try produced the effect of inducing very many persons to lay out their money in the purchase of Stock in the French Fords. This was now done every day. Ile did not mean to say, that he thought the low rate of interest was disadvantage ous to the country ; when it was produced by a prosperous state of our affairs, nothing was more desirable.. But now, when the whole object of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and his whole occupation ever since his flaming speech in June last,- was to force the market for the purpose of lowering the 'rate of interest, it must be looked at in a very different point of view. The whole project of last year about paying off the livelier cents. was now blown, and the Right Honoura hie Gentleman was, by the very measure now proposed, attempting to force up the Funds. All this Was done to put off the evil day ; but that day ought not to be postponed to this day twelve months. Whether the measures now proposed would be carried, he knew not. But he really hoped that the House would not consent to renew the Restriction merely on the simple as sertion of the Chancellor - of the Exchequer—that they would bear in mind that the Restriction was not now proposed on any one of the grounds on which the measure had hitherto peen supported ' —that every one of those grounds was now done away. The whole "reason for it was now reduced tO the Foreign Loans. We were the only nation in the world who lived entirely on an unconverti ble paper currency, and it remained to be seen k - whether a sum borrowed by a foreign Government Could be paid tri) in this country. For his own part, he believed the condition of France to be such, that if the Government of that country should be obliged to•have recourse this year to any loan, they would be enabled to raise the greater part within their own territory. There , was therefore really no solid reason hitherto ad duced, to prove why the foreign loan should pro duce any effect, to make it less advisable to re move the Restriction. If, however. tl,e House should resolve to continue the Re , 'ricti 10, he hoped a clause would be introduced into the Bill, expressly stating, that the :cooed was only for one year," and no longer.'' He trusted that the Report would he put off till Monday, as on that day he would move for the appointment of a Com mittee. To such a motion he could not antici pate any objection. It would only occasion fa de ,y of a fortnight or three weeks at most, anti he trust, that the House would not agree, even on the faith of the signal abilities of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to do that ,chich they would not do even for Mr. l'itt, and which even Mr. Pitt, with all his confidence, would not have ask ed—to gratify a Mmister, by altering the whole system of the cuirency of the kingdom, without inquiry or information. Mr. GitENFELL said, he considered the arrange ment proposed respecting Country Banks of minor invortance to the proposal for continuing the Bank Restriction Act. In 1816, the price of gold was low, and the exchange in our favour; the House was told that a certain time must be al lowed for things to subside and settle hetore the Restriction could be removed, and that two years would be sufficient time for that purpose. With respect to what was said of the bad harvest of 1816, he thought i• iptite sufficient to observe, that the exchange never was so much in our favour as in the beginning of - 1817. And what was the reason now assigned for continuing the Res'tric tion ? 'lt amounted to no more than this, that be cause a German merchant had settled in England, and an English merchant had settled in France, therefore cash payments ought not to 'be re sumed by the Bank of England . . He would re serve his further observations - to. the future stages of -the measure. In the mean time he begged to,know whether the stock to be deposited by Country Bankers was to be considered as a secu rity of the stamped notes, or as extending''aiso to Five-pound notes and others for large* sums? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, referring to what had been said by a Right-Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Tien - icy), disclaimed all intention of casting any imputation on the Gentlemen of Country Banking Establishments. He . bad not the slightest intention of the kind, nor was•there any thing in the measure itself •which implied any greater distrust in the credit of those .most re spectable persons then that- which must always be felt front the peculiar nature 'of. the cut reocy which they is - sued, as opposed to the rest.oL the currency•of the country. As to the question of the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, whether the stock deposited was. to be considered as a general security for all notes issued. by the depositors, he certainly - meant that in the first instance it should be a security only for the 11. and 21. notes, beef.- log the stamp of stock notes. As to the rest ; the seentit y, of course, after the satisfaction of- the stamped notes, would he assets applicable - for the benefit of general creditors. As to whiq had been said of the effect of the former for eign to tns, in 1795, on the price of he read an ex tract from the- evidence of Mr. Newland, the Cashier of the Bank of England, thet the price of gold, which in 1795 had been 21. 10s. per oz., i n 1797 was so high as 41. 4s. per ounce. He bad been asked, with a sort of taunt; whether the pre sent plan was all that had been intended, and wh e ther a scheme of Stock Debentures had not been at one time resolved on ? In answer to this, he must distinctly state that he never did iutehd to propose a scheme for Stock Debentures. Aluch . noise had been made in the public prints about such a scheme, and an individual had submitted a plan of the kind to him ; but notice was very soots given to that individual, that however inge nious his plan was, it was not desirable at the present time, when so many Exchequer Bills were afloat, as they answered every purpose that could be obtained by Debentures. At the same time be was tar from giving a general negative to the scheme of Debentures, which, under certain eircunistances, might be resorted to with much advantage. But it was obvious, that if adopted, at the present time, the immediate and necessary effect would be, that either they or Excite ener Bills would be very much depreciated in va lue. As to the might of the plan he now pro posed, the. idea of issuing paper on the security of Stock had been proposed many years ago to Mr. Pitt by a very respectable Solicitor, of the Frame of IVeston, since dead. But part of Mr. ‘Veston's plan was, that the paper so issued should be._ a legal tender—a measure which he (time Chancellor of the Exchequer) never iatended, and could by no means consider advisable. Mr. GRENFELL said, that with respect 'to Arr. Newland's evidence, that Gentleman never meant to slate that the market price of gold in the two years, front 1795 to 1797, was ever so high as 4 guineas; but that the Bank had, in 1797, impo,t ed a quantity of gull from Hamborgh (from a Mr. Elias:), which cost them a price so high: as four guineas an ounce. _The Resolutions were then agreed to. The SPEAKER having; resumed the Chair, Mr. B R OGDEN moved for leave to bring in Bills pur suant to the Resolutions.—Leave given. Some conversation passed acrols the table, be tween the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER and Mr. J. P. GRANT, as to the day on which Mc. Tierney'S motion for the Committee should be made, but it could not be heard that any day was 'fixed, though Monday was named. • In answer to a question by 11ifr. GRENFELL, as to what charges were proposed to be made on the deposits lodged by Bankers, • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the charges which he proposed were, that 2s. 6d. per cent. should be paid at the time of deposit, 013 the stock deposited, and Is. per cent. per-antaum on the deposit while it was continued. The other Orders pt the Day were disposed ot„ —Adjourned.