The Sun. — London, England, 1810-05-08 00:00:00

its authority and independence were built, being crier, taken away, the Constitution itself must tumble to the, ground, and an order of things arise; the'bare contemplat;on- of which made him shudder. He broaChed 1:6 new opinion; the simple doctrine which. he here laid down was the doctrine cherished, and acted upon by the best and (wisest men th4t ever adorned thiS country. • It was the doctfine of - the great and enlightened men with- whom_ he had the good fortune to he associated thronghout the whole of his political lite, - a doctrine and,a" practice from which he should never depart. He,, must there fore feel it incumbent upon • him To, ~resist the - .present clamour against. the character, and the present ' , encroachments- on the privileges of the : Parliament; - and by resisting them, he felt him self satisfied he was aaing- the part best caleu culated to uphold the Conitilution, and preserve all the blessings-which were knoWn chiefly to flow from the ‘eicellence of that Constitution.. On the dan gers that now • threatened it, he had bestowed th e. most serious reflection ; and - though' the reSult - of that tefiedion might not enable him (indeed he lit-- - - tie expeded It) to devise a remedy for the'many evliS- Which now afllided the Nation, yet it might in some degree avert cit . ' mitigate them. With that objed in view, he should endeavour to trace the Which he'foresal.v and deprecated to their real source, and then 'submit them in a detailed form to the consideration of his Majesty. That - detail - be should couch in the shape of -an Address, which he now gave notice he should move to his Majesty this day three weeks. He did 1 not propose an earlier day,, because many other motions of importance hid been , . _given notice, of for the intermediate time, and which, agreeably to custom, should consequently have the precedence. The Earl of Lis/M . OOl, would not now aIIOW his attention to be diverted from the greatobject - which the Noble Lord • seemed to - h ave i n view, -; by the . abuse and. invectives in far hick the Noble Lord had .thought proper tO•indulge against his Majesty's Go- - Nernment. --Whenever the Noble Lord should bring forward any charge -against Ministers, he should be ready to meet that charge. At - presept he would assure the Noble Earl, that hepertectly coincided in the opinions and the feelings,he had expressed, re lative to the.attempts that were now made* to vilify the character and question the privileges of Parlia ment, and in resisting such attempts he Should re ceive with thankfulness the support of any Noble • Lord, but particularly of. the Noble Lord who just sat down, Awhose opinions were - entitled to so much weight from his long experience, his enlightened wisdom, and his known integrity. He saw in the same light ./h the Noble.. Loid did, the spirit and the machinations that were now at 'work', and he would cordially co-operate with the Noble Lord in crushing and defeating them. When the time came he-should also be prepared to meet whatever - accUsa;ions-- it Might be the intention, of the Noble Earl to institute against the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers. He al at present only to wish that Noble_Earl would more minutely explain . the object . of his promised' mo ion, or at least that on'some failure day previous to his bringing it on, he would . have the' goodness more .o'aq to intim - me the general tenor of histnO t rd C;RF:NVIL'IIi.s9i , i, that fihe Noble 'Se - cretaiy ate &-oileeicd f he, general drift rif the ,not :•n ,N-ble Friend, from, the clear, 6,,,tinct, , m n,rer in which he had laid' dovt n the gtoutyls of hisinotion in the pic ture he had'so ably drawn of the present clingers of the country: To every ~ e;iti mem . uttered by his Noble Friend- he ieO t ewidially subscribed.; and abOve all, _he agreed with him in implying the pre sent dangers and difficoltiei of the country to the 'misconduct of his Majt!sty's Nlinistyrs. - It was not found such an Administration that he 'would -ever peopose to r4lly. " - He was for supporting the. Co nstitution, which the present - Ministers bad violated in their corning into office. He was for supporting a Constitution which every aet•of theirs tended to i.n pair. He was for supporting a Constitutidn to which we owed every thirg that was good or great in the country, and therefore he 'would -rally, not round `Ministers, by whoSe weakness it was_ daily endan gered, but round Parliament, upon - the independ• ence of which the liberties of the country must, ultimately rest. We had only' to look to the history of Parliament to he cdnvinced of this truth:. 'Should 'the people be deluded into an attempt to take away the privileges of ParliaMent, they would take away the great prop and- security of all the blessings they enjoy; and - they would compel 'Parliament to fly fOr prote&ion to the Throne, on Which alone would af-_ terwards depend the protection of the people.- Those, then, were the beit friends 'of the people who would open their eyes, to the precipice into which th e y - were running, and rescue .them from the insidious promptings of thoselll , aesigning , men 'who would . hurry them to their rain.' Lordtasmtli gave eVery credit to.his Noble Viends for the reaitude of their intentions. He could not, however, entirely adopt the opinions on which they seemed prepared to. ad. 'They were bordering on • the discussion of a grave and most momentous ques , . • Con, - which,was likely; arnd diStant day, to come ilire&ly before their Lordships. He thought highly ef the privileges of Parlialuent ; but he' should rte . tier regard those privileges as of force to set aside, or • supersede the jurridiCtion of the Courts of Justice. Those Courts fa-ere the authorities which expound ed the law of 'the land the tribunals from which - ' justice was-dispensed . ; and he concurred in opinion 'with the great lights of . the law; who asserted that no power or privilege avat' . aboveit. Such was the opinion he had Cheriihed froth the time his.judg ment was mature, and he Shotild never, by de , Fining from it, deny the 'tenor of his public life.. What was the 'autlidritY upon Which the House had lately acted, in fofcibly entering the house of Sir F. Burdett ? It was the Opinion of his Majesty's At torney General, resting, as he hithself confessed, upon no preced&dt, upon no law, but mere l y l oose -analogy, Such grounds were not 'sufficient in his eyes .to justify sucks proceeding. He should never, in the support of ParliaMentary privilege,. fly -in the f ice of a Statute ; .much k•ss wquld lie think of sup p .irting that privilege by calling in the aid of the bayonets of the king.,. , . The conversation here ended, mid their Lordships were ordered to be summoned for this day three ' -weeks. rn , o , i Ica THE AFFAIRS OF SPA,Ilst.. - Margols of LAvoowNE, now. that he saw all I)ifors oi: die talAe, felleWed his uotiee of a tob• tion respecting tlie late Carripatgn"which he should bring forvard this day, seVnight. Their Lordships were then ordered to be suni monect to attend on thatday. Accounts were presented from the Transport Of fice of the number of . Transports, and of the Ex pence attending those whiCh were eniploTedin the Expedition to the Baltic in 1807.—Adjourned. ROUSE OF COMMOKS. MONDAY, WAY 7- , COMMERCIAL DOCKS. Mr. BYNG held in his hand a PetiJibn against the Commercial Docks, concerning ,which the Speaker made observations similar to what he did a few days ago,, relative to the in propriety of presenting Petitions 'against the Bills so late in their progress through the House. On the question bed - % put .for the bringing up of this Petition, it was negatived. SUITS IN CHANCERY. Mr. M.A•.TA Y LOR postponed his motion respe&ing suits in Chancery, which stood for. Tuesday, the 22d, to the Friday foaowing. • - LONDON pocxs. . , General held in his band - a Petitic n 'against the London Docks Bill, the receiving 'of which was objected to till the Hon. Member stated that the Pe tition represented that in the progress of the Bill the' Standing Orders of fhe House had not been complied - Witb, and.that several material bats .had beep mis represented before the Committee ; on which the Petition was brought.up and ordered to be read. A few words followed from Sir CHARLES PRICZ when— The SPEAKER Obser.ved that it seen) to. be'the in tention of an interested party to overturn the Bill in its last•stage, by referring to the report of the first ; as there:Was no accusation of positive fraud, he thought it should be rejeaed on the grounds.he had before urged. The question for its lying on the table was then put and negatived. Mr. CAMPBELL, from , the Transport Board, pur suant to an order of the House, presented accounts of the hired transports in the service, with their tonnage,'stations, &e. which were ordered to be printed._ Mr'. IRVINE, from the Office of Exports snd Im ports, presented the. Account of Coals acid Culm, imported into.Londen in the-year 1809.—Ordered to be rinted. . . Mr. KNOWLES, from the Na . vy Office, presented Accountsof the Store-ships in the service.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. MANNING, postponed the third reading of the London Docks Bill to Thursday next. ' Sir S.. ROMILLY postppned It's motion relative to the transportatiOn of Convi&s till Thursday next. Mr. H. SMITH postponed his motion relative to the Collieries of Glaworganshire tin'this 'day se'ri night. BARON KOLL! : . Mr. WniTßßEAD.expressed his wish to have_ it in his - pover to contradict certain statements he had seen2in the pnblic:papers, containing 'a letterfrom hiS-MAjesty to the King of Spain, and count6rsign ed by the Marquis Wellesley ; he asked the ,Hon. Gentleman opposite-if such doeutnents were ge- r~u!ire , The CHANC ELLOR or - tne EXCHEQUER rplied, that such sort of que-tions, if answered, would. mud) inconlienience t..,e private branch . of the pub lic service. . . Mr. WHITBREAD, with much warmth, wished the Right Hon. GentlenJan . would reply aye or no to big question, which he repea•, cF The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER repeated his answer. SIR F. BURDETT. The SPEAKER said; that- before the House pro ceeded to the general business of the day, he wished to statt, that previous to the recess, he had received two papers fi otu Sir F. Burdett, .which as he .felt.it incumbent on him, he,had communicated to the House; one was a notice of an action to be in stituted against him in the Court of King's Bench the ensuing term; which term as it now approach ed, he requested the consideration, of the House on the proceedings had, and to be bad, on _a matter so interesting to its privileges. • The CHANCELLOR' of the EXCHEQUER was of opinion, that the, better course would be to appoint a Committee. He:,therefore moved, that. a select Committee be appointed to inquire into the pro .ceedings had and, to be bad, on the letter and notice -of Sir F. Burdett. -Mr. WHITBREAD said, that before the question was ,put, perhaps the Right Hon„Gentlematt would condescend to state the grounds on whiCh be moved for a•Committee; since such a 'time had elapsed an tecedent to any steps being taken, he thought it ex traordinary that the House - Could now be acquainted with the arguments he supposed were prepared on the subjea.' • . The CHANCELLOR. . of the Exvittausit answered, that it was for the purpose of obviating any previous discussion he moved for a Committee. The question was then put, when Mr. ADAM rose to Make a few observations on the terms . of the motion. It was material that the House should consider every thing which - had passed on this- sub:lea ;.•. the term, therefore, of the. reso lution;- -be conceived to be short, or too general This was not a time to discuss the subje€l, - bu► for his part he had . made up his mind -to maintain the the Privileges of the House.. He wished that it might be added to the motion, that the Cominitttie , should make its Report on a certain limited day ; and 'that it might be underatodd from it, that the Com mittee was not for the purpose of advising, but of enlightening the House with respect to what it ought to do :- if the - motion was in this form, he would have no objection to it. The SPEAKER said, , that, in point ,of form, it was usual for the report of a Committee- to con clude in the way alluded to by the Honourable Gen tleman. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that in making the motion he had no other idea but that* the Committee shouid report its opinions,: on which 'the House was to proceed. • • • • Mr. •ADAM• observed, that this would be doing what be wished to avoid. 'lt was fus wish that the Committee should investigate the fatiS,-and then the Houma might form its 'opinion. He •conceived that on a subi s ,6l of such importance, tbe. report should be received on a certain day. The OPITAKER observed, that in petnt of order there could be.no particular day Preseribed. ' ADAM cited the case-of H u bb art ' s servan t . The question Was then put, • which was, -• " That a Seed Committee should be appointed to con= shier the proceedings had, and to be gad, on the. Letter and notice ot Sir F. Burdett, and that phe Cominittec\shoutd re port such tats, with the opinions they should think neves- Sary to the House." Mr. WittTartaAn vehemently entreated of the ,House to consider the 'situation in Whibh it was 'placed by the Right Hod. Gentle Man opposite, who had gene on, step by step; without knowing Where he himself Situated; - who ltdd bionglit therri within `a few hours time of the proceedings of law against their Speaker, and now told them (after 4e claring be should form his opinion during the vacs-.• tion), that they should submit to the decision of a Committee. A Learned Gentle man on ,his side of the House had some time uv ago declared it was, .highly inexpedient to delegate the authority of the House to a committee. But the Right Hon. Gentietnan•haa made a motion, to which he again added an'alnend ment, agreeable to his ustial. irresoluti on . - *He hoped,: therefore,-that the . House would not now follow- him, and suffer itself to be led as heretofore by one who- did not knoW his ,own principles. . He was - convinced tbat the-House . would be disgraced by allowing this .Committee, , and he -.would, .as every Member, who ,knew his own mind wou ld , vot e - against- it for by procrastination fresh difficulties would 'be incurred. Mr. PoNsONBY understood that the motion had been made irk consequenceof a communication of the ,Speaker, forthe pm pose of ceceiving the dire&ion of the House. The Right ion. Gentleman oppo-• site, had thought proper to propose a Committee, which he 'considered more calculated to produce a doubt of 4he rights - of this House than remove one. Also, it. should be considered whether it was fit the House should take the opinion of a Cotnmitee, -and proceed accordingly, or whether it should decide on .the_report of faCt,s. ire was unwilling it should be understood he gave any advic e on th e subje& ; with this qualification - he would suggeit that this de bate might 'be adjourned, to give time for- con sideration, rather than now refer the subject to 41 Committee. , Mr. RYDER said; that as_ the speech of an. Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Whitbread) was a part of his - - system of general abuse, it needed no His Right Honourable - Fiend had, proposed to fal low the example of_ the House in the-appoint ment of a Committee. In, dOing. so, the House would not delegate its autho r ity, b ut appoint. it for examining precedepts, and reporting those_ prece dents and opinions. He could not but think, that. in a subject of, spell importance this wits the rtiode it became the Houie to pursue ; n.o material time would be lost, and in consequence of such a report the House would be able to deeide more satisfattori ly.to themselves and to the country. Mr. C. WYNNE agreed that it was usual in such cases toappoint a Committee; if so, he did not see bow .it was po,sible to avoid delegating the autlid rity of. the House: He was ot. opinion that this consideration should be postponed. TIERNEy, inveighed strongly against the con.; duct of Ministers,,who he said had set the HOuse au Easter task, atid.atter all did not know how to decide. The Right Hon. Gentleman s!tuuld have Considered the: subject, and not have thrown it on the House, HeAvould strenuously resist the mea sure of r&crring theVrivileges of the House to the opinions of *a Committee. He therefore moved as an amendment, that the latter words of the :Re solution; " together with their opinions," be left: out. Mr. B. 'DoNt)As said,.that though the Honourable Gentleman had inveighed against the rashness of -Ministers, he wished. the House.to consider there fore, how far they would allow such a princi-. pie to go. Was it to be contended, that those who voted for certain 'proceedings, should .now charge Minisiers with having gone too far. ?., There seemed to be a, systematic.-design gone forth, of seeing how far the Privileges of the House might be insulted. The question-crow was, titer the, present subjea should be referred to a Committee; in this there was no delegation of the privileges of . the House. He therefore hoped the Honourable Gentlemen would not persist in their opposition. Sir A. PIGOT understood, that a motion of an ace Con' of law had been served on the Speaker, for having caused the dwelling-house. of Sir F. Burdett to be broken open.. This neeesure he conceived to be not blamable, as the conduct of the Honour able. Baronet deserved it. An offence had been committed against the Ifouse, and the offender was sent to the Tower. ' Three weeks had now 'elapsed since the serving of the notice, and,no line of pro ceeding had been . adopted by the Right Hon. Gen tleman. The Speeker- did what was his . duty; he communicated what he had received to the House which was entered on • the Journals. In conse qtience.of a mistake in the first notice, a second' was . served, which was on the 17th of last month ; it was now the 7th 'of May, and nothing had been resolved on. What was the case ? It was a notioe to the Speaker of an anion for discharging his duty here. It was a proceeding entirely new, unwitness ed-not only since, but _before the Revoltitioni in those inglorious reigns which preceded it, never was even such an .idea started ; it was a novelty monstrous in its nature; it was a novelty at once ' the characteristic and disgrace of these times. The consideration of it, of coulee, fell to those who hold the reins of pow e r, an d i t was truly astonish ink- why, this impertinent paper did not meet with more attention. He was determined to support the privileges of the HO 4 use, and to countered as much as was in his power the delpsiOn which had gone abroad, calculated only to entrap the unwary and the incautious.. That now, immediately before the term, his Majesty's Ministers should at last _awake from their trance and, endeavour to cover thtm selves with ea 'Committee was extraordinary. He sincerely and Unaffectedly de'plorted such negled. When the notice was served on the Reuse, he regret ted that no one was ready to declare his opinion. It was a question, he conceived, A.rf - the greatest dal ! culty, and the most raklicalimporiance. The-House should newt - part with its privileget unless it wish ed to surrender its judici4 legislative andiogeisitoriel functions without s hick it could riot-exist. Tr, is was Lint a new school o f prkileges he was urging. Free- thin alluded to the daily tr.uh read on the sub ject of the House having no figbt . to 'commit. The _ . . - Leeened Genttemati contended thatthe, .ufie -- the miserable p r et en d ers to ie - thlic epproleeti-qn 2114 applause male of th e p o W ers which tie House e 5. ercised, sere,. 'that they were injurious to the Ce ll " , stitution and to the rights- of the p eo pl e ; now le fa& wesehat the House exercis e d no p r i v il eg e WilA. e `„ did. ,not properly bel on g to t h e r m If those strumetits of anarchy and .conftision were to eh'7 l their ebjea, the res ult wou ld b e e t h at li n six; ral_lis -the House of Commons :must cease to exist. iv depretated the passivepess of 11/Itni s ters in not t' m log somemeans of countereaing she effects of i s poison which th e pe op l e - were in the. daily habit e a receiving through the i n st ruments to wh i c h he 624 alluded: He - much Lamented ll:sit-the House not come to some resolutions,: as was, done ina l good times, expressive of their privileges, go as e t P o all might be acquainted the rew i t h Wiih respecl, the motion of the information which the Coniteit k ' st might, be, euPposed to being forth, did the gq, u e wish, then •to search fdr . whet p er ha does not g 2V, t Did they suppo s e there Wel - is anypree'et.fetivi for c ' bd vii aEtions against the, Speaker ? Cutlet any °N e e , pointed out by th e G ent l em e n. opposite ? It what could the Committee tell ate House ? S i /I(3S r meant to be contend e d th a t this House was to render to a Committ ee its ownpoWers - ? Were the to be guided by opinions ?. If -.so thee it might o said indeed that their fienaions Were gOtte. e e 'kir instance in any of lovteer.Ceutrtee-hi r . t p ta pose re Chancery,t hat a . person should he commit ted for ° e t tempt, and after his commiital, an Attorney sh ° , aG ` l fe t get up and ha n d to his Lordship' a notice of trime an action of 'civil damages, would his Lordshill be justified if he ordered the Attorney into-the 0 1 , tody of atipstair ? The - Learned Gentleeein •C‘ s ee, eluded with stating his intention of voting in Or e of the amendme n t r ath er t h an - for the -meet of : a ComMittee with unlimited powers. sr , The bOLLCITOR GENERAL exp resse d- his cooc l 'e - renceand'convietion in the sentim ents o f th e heart''` Gentleman opposite. If the Horse conseote", allow any pt its privileges to be cut down, it W 34 : 1 ,;, ' poStiib , 'CALM it could exist,. because those p i rivil - P , were 'the only eaf e g uar d, aeaiost anyobstruction s proceeding on the ousiness which ie might hay e d transact.. With these sentiments, he should - Me' confine himself to the limited _question befere tit House, viz, what was the proper course to adqo When it had been stated th a t t h e case elo,N' t t consideration was one of a novel nature, and ' s ' oc e, no instance could be f urn i s h e d i n w h ich an act i o n "' f been brought against the Speaker, Was it not Por ts / that a .Coninaitiee should.- b e b row ht to sea rch precedents, and was it not desirab;e, i lee if the C°`` l j mittee found any f ac t s i n t h e i i searele,that they s h report th e ir opinhers on those' facts 1: It watt .Old , on alLhatids that it 'is high time sbuiething 6 ` ; ‘ )Uld done, the only difficultythat'seemed to arise e° 9 e p to what was, pr o p er to b e done. -Some Getitie' l ' e had charged his Right Hcu. Friend with bents rwi miss inbringing on an inquiry ; but he vvoeki , was a char g e of that ualur e respectful to the t„ The Gentleman seemed to think ;hat' die ..viieees of the nouse were to be'protected ooly his Vlajesty's Ministers. Was not the House tits proeer guardian of its own privileges ? a cberge against his Right Honourable F r ''' might be a very popular argument. doors, but he trusted it would not be rec,.-ived w ` I ; , doors in any other - manlier than by ,epro lo°)' y~Y , The House was collectively coeeereed in 'tee. e"'''o' which wes proper to pursue in this case. The would do his - Right Hon. Feiends the justice knowledge, that on a termer dal he bad 04 r,0f them tQ consider the novel situation i n w hich ' l ' were placed,. but not . one ,of th e G ent l een eve though three weeks had elapsed, h a d come: tilt ai dr' l with any proposition. When therefore, they C" ; e t so loudly on his Ri g h t Hon. ' Friends to accoun t e s their delay, why did they not point out some eoll.e? to pursue; likely t o meet t h e urgency of Cie- c:" Would any Ge n tl em a n w h o thought tile nie3'- now proposed not a fit one , su b st i tute or rec°o3e mend another ? A Select Committee was,. i n be opinion, the best calculated to meet the case , 0 . 0 , cause they would e x a m i ne into facts, report ilK re e e and then the House m i g h t a f terwards dete'";:eii what was best t o b e d one . They (night 'be eh' -w e et I to colleEt up all the infor mat i on --neces sar y to r j c b e 1 an attack of- so novel a nature, to which sietiL li e es euperadded th e i r o pi n i ons ; the report the House might exercise their juegtnenisunfett e tbe, With this view, he thought the 'motion shool' adopted in its original state. c Mr. WiiiDHANt agreed with hi s L earne d 01 (Sir A. Pigot) i n -all t h at h e ha d stated. The 16-0# r lion, in his opinion, branched into two consiu e e tions. The fireteand the least imp orta n t , v.ls th e. condua, of the Committee; and the other, th e f ee cessity of doing somet hi ng i n th e present decrial stances in which the House was placed. l )A e it events, if a Committee was appoi n t e d, he nl d say, That the House were bound to be cautious) see, that they di e d not delegate powers such as l e r , .not be proper to entrust them with ; but he 1 113 o de 'stood that their decision was not to be ultirnate, a c therefore, he had not much cause. for apfrel,' Le sion. The pow ers i nten d e d to b e intrusted to tee iey was that they should rather mix their opinions * ea the faas, then decide what course the House sh ° o l pursue, so as those f e el s might beintelligible 10 te , House. •If it was meant to give them powers o d yond that, he sh o uld think i t objectionable, a`o, should be inclined t o co i nc id e with his Right 13;11 Friend, , that. it would be setter to leave •tilervi t o altogether, unless their powers were confine' e the statement °fleas. 'He th oug ht i t m i g ht he 0, tended with danger out of doors: Mr. W. c° l‘• demned the doaritte that the House was not to I ° .l ° o' to Ministers for respon s ibilit y w i t h respe a to L e i delay this business. Th e y were most assureuie from their situation bound to suggest to the 1 4° , e ti e what" Was best to be d on e. Th ey possessed the c"--er fidence of the House, and therefore were the - P. dis per persons to instit ute p rocee di ngs. He wa s tS posed to agree that the amendment suggested hY de le Right Honourable F r i en d was. t h e most prli measure. „ e tc Sir l'iteseesTOßTON, was not di s p ose d to de-Pos the important privileges with which the Hons° 0 ,0 invested, to a n y C omm i ttee . H e shuddere d at idea - that the House itself .was not compete s ! be make defence against any action which L iege' . c o brought, and ought to.determine, in his opinion , its own judgment. Mr. ADAM' recommended -the HouSe to cons , the question dispassioliatelyeaud aeamatter foe i ~`~\