The Sun. — London, England, 1810-02-20 00:00:00

COURT OF ADt:IRALTY. Lord COCHRANE, in rising to make his promised Motion respecting the condud of priie cartes, &e. • declared that if the question had concerued the Navy alotie, he should nor have obtruded 'himself on she atti.3tiOltl of the House; partly lest he should have beeu supposed to be intereste,J, and partly because . he felt himself inadequate to ;he task; but so deeply iovolved were the interes e ts of the country at large in the subjet-1, that every other consideration gave way in his mind to a sen-e of public duty. Should the House grant him the papers for which ho was about to move, he would prtove the existence of an Unparalleled system of abuse, of which the country was by no means aware, and which exceeded even, the corruption which - prevailed. in Spain under the . Prince of Peace. In every respell the Manegement of the business of a Court of Admirelty wesin s jitrious to the country, and , he'svas satiAieil; that if the abuses of that Court were abolished, the naval • service of the country could be carried on at less : !hail half the expence at' which it was at present. liistaricestsfunjuseliaVe compromise hod frequently. -essie rred, as a proof of which he -conk! state, that ttflriy-two thou-and pounds had been ; giveil op for t 02.31. to a person in Liverpool. • Antttliee abuse was the compulsion, in frequent instances, of cap t eset to pay in that Court Ennis greater than the pro ceeds .Ot their prizes. :These were charges that Blight be denied, but could riot be refuted/The em ployment also of the King's Proctor alone in prize causes was highly ebjectionsble. Was it oo beto lerated that the whole Navy of England should be compelled to commit their interests;' to the !ransge - ment of one individual, whether ortiot.they.confided in - his talents and integrity's..? What would Gentle alien think if they were obliged in their legal affain all to employ one attorney in the inter6t probably of their opponents ? ,This , pr i adice, was consonant neither to law, to jUstice,• to equity, nor to good sense. The personal liberty of captors was frequent . - lpendangered in cases of conclemoation.. The in terest o the Crown, and that of the captors we re frequ , Jutly at valiance; and the , CotlevenceS had been repeatedly exhibited. If these . papers Were al loWed to be pioduced, he should move fur others of st:11 greater importance, and teuding turther.to lelu cidJtethe subject. He pledged his bortour to prove„ 'that the abuses in the Admiralty Court had paralyzed the whole - system of the ;3titish Navy. Tbe con detonation ofsrnall, vessels was rendered es expen sive.as that of large ones, and the result of captures of that description was merely to put money into. the Proaor's pocket, or into the pocket .of she Ridge by whom the Aas of Parliarriept had been,di realy,violated. If a proper encouragement were ' g.iven - to the navy, by a reformation of these abuses, let) sail of the line would not be necessary, as they now were, to block up 40 or SO sail of the enemy ; but sotnestinjulus.soas indispensable to the exertions of our naval officers ; be did not wish that their pay s onld be increased, but be wished that they should be secured in tie possession of that which was their joct right. He hadhimsell repeatedly experienced .toe injustice of tie Admiralty and Vice-Admiralty Coults._ Theresultot a capture which he had made of thirteen vessels laden with .provisions for Barce lona was, that he was obliged to put his hand in his pocket to pay the Judge' .. oi the Vice-Court -of Asl rniraty at Malta. The whole system, ,he said, .of t • ese Courts was mo- l t abominable, and a complete h twbug upon the navy and the country.. In one . stance in his. experience, the captaireof esen of ‘star got five shillings and sevenpeoce le.ss e enny for , his entire of that froth which the Court ,of Adtui 7 ralty-obtained the siim, of 3rst. ,17s. ,He then ad-. versed : to the abuses in the granting of licenses for foreign trade; and declared his opinion that the eornriierce in foreign bettorus w in '_the Thanes, exceeded the whole ,of our own foe_ reign commerce. By these means : great injurytras done to the trade of the country, and a nursery, was created for e'iteene, ivho *cold ultimately serve to Irish C!e fle e ts of 1" ranee. Af‘e ai ologising lot the u.scoone.eted manner in . whicli he km id submitted to toe House these statements, which ; be.attrinoted to hit having.been 'all his life empleyed its occupations ofa very different nature, his Lordship coneluded by Moving for 'Pspers, the first of Inert were " (':pies from the li.e , :eister . nt the High Court of .A.Hentraityeof t Accounts tot- Gie Am- - priiori, iis'rea, Werrior, DOiphin, Euterprize, Gus. -neral, Clearly to rutcleneind whstlier t'.e Noble Lcrd eleatit merely the s le e nt s ' A ceouttts for aboternentioned ut , siek. Lor.l - Coctift_ANK reetied in the ailirnett;ee. Scorr.a , led he Court of Admiralty could possibly 'be ansA'crable for such .ac,founti this Sgcnts ? And yet such hild been 4 hi...groo m ] on the Noble' Lord founded all his invettiie. The NoWe, Lord wa'S a pren - iiit accuser. He had :been, an accuser of individuak, and an accuser of Courts of ins - ice, Fk 11:A b,eu an unfortunate :.accuser ; and he (Sir NV. Scott) pjedgcJ himself, by -a . „) the credit which he .might have obtained during the many yeius that he had sat in that House, .hat -trie Noble Lord wodld prove as witoftuoate in this accusation any preceding one. Mr. ItosEtvtalki icsure the Noble bird And the House, that outudn was inore disposed the 13 himself to agree to the I;rodu6tion of auy plperi by which the Ulterests of the Navy might be bk-nctited. -He was satisfied, hoWever, that when the papers moved for were produced, the conduct oft he High Court of Ad iiiiralty wear& be found niot unobjectionable. The Noble Lord had poured out a t.irrent of abuse most inip:ccedentt.-t1 on a motion for 'papers only, and before the House had the &curium's before , This was a sut;jea hich he had investi erued with a 'cart and attention for wh'ich be sup , • i,0,Z4 the Noble Lord nc.u!d not give him. credit. . 4ie hid :bestowed upon it many days and many nights, and he was cOnvonced that il . the Noble Lord were to suc'ceed in throviiug abroad into other hands the business which was LlONVCOhfiiled co the Ki te's PrOCiOs'beVotild - extremely injure the in . erests of the Navy, depreciate the character of the couidry, oneeesiarily annoy the neutral trsder, . and . 'Very, muoli embarass the British .merchant.-, defied the-Nobre Lord to find a single instance hi which die charges made by .the King's Piocior were higlier_ than those which would have been m:ide -by. any other Protior in Doctors' , Commons. A, to the ticaolints; it CettainlY did hipper), that-at - Tr th.se accounts were made up, Naval Officers sel dom took any trouble to examine them. Soon . atter hu became Treasurer of the : Navy, it had laeen represented to him that many abuses exist ed in this respect. He 'had consequently inquired into the subject, and hid had no legs than 153 of these cases before him, nine of which were now be fore the Judge of the High Court of Admiralty, in cons..-4quence of the enormOus char#s which the ac counts contained. In one casek ; the‘charges of an• Agent at Portimouth, who had 62,001)1. to distribute, amounted CO 9,4621. of which sum i,2001. Was stated to be for postage! In another instance, t had been charged. by an agent where riot a shilling had been paid. Large sums toe'Were kept in hand by these agents for many years, the accumulated interest of which was lost !o the rightful owners. Feeling sen sibly that-the Navy suffered deeply for want of sonic body to look to their interests, he had after the last ' Session of:Parliament proposed thit a person should be appointed for that purpose. He did not wish that a pl:lce should be created, but - a Gentleman who had made the business his study having written to him, and having been very respe . etably recommended, par, t icolarly by two Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side of the House, he had accepted that Gentleman's ser- Viet" 3, and he vas now going through the cases in the : most satisfactory manner. •With respect co the sea men, he (Mr:; Rose) -had completely succeeded in getting justice secured to theta: : Since the,Act of the . last Session only °tie' complaint had been Made to him • by a sailor of his having been cheated by his agent. A , .suit was in cousequence-instituted against the agent, and out of the penalty the'sarlor had got his money. - In the investigation of the cases to which he alluded although • there )vere many exceptionable charges, the law charges were lower than those of • the proetors employed•by privateers. He had read a pamphlet. on : the subject of the Noble. Lord's speech, and he declared,, that after making all pas : sible inquiry, he was satisfied that not a single state ment in that pamphlet was founded in truth; He regretted that the N6l/16 Lord, instead of making a desultory complaint of abuse, had nut put his linger on a single case whete lie would have found him (Mr. R.) as ready as. himself to bring it under the tconsideration of the Hetise. Mr. C. DUNDAS bore' testimony to the chara&er of the Gentleman appdinted by Mr. Rose to assist • in the - investigation of the cases alluded to. Mr..STEPHeN would not vie with the N , lale Lord in the use of harsh epithets, but he must protest against the practice on a motion for the. prodndion of Papers of entering into as direr and 'personal a crimination of the individuals cOncert ed, as if the House had detertnined on their impeachtnent. knew not for what purpose the Noble Lird bad' on his occasion entered into details', except for the pur pose of throwiOcr groundless aspersions on some of the most respectable and honourable persons in the country. The papers for which the Noble Lord had moved were most voluminaus. 'The _Noble Lord had allowed that he had hot examined them, and yet be built on- them* an accwation against the officers of ,the High Court of Admiralty of corruption, and a sacrifice of the interests of the navy. Thu Tapers., he said were to be produced just to give a chance that there' Might by extreme possibility be soolething in them ta justify the ac cusation. He (Mr. Stephen) woad not affront the high characters so wantonly.caltunniated—eha racters respelled, not only by this county alone, but bythe,, world, for their talents and inte grity—lie -would not .affrotit. such char.:Cters 'by be, coming their apologist. :The Noble Lord, was a distirwuished ornament of his proleSsiph ; for his part, he confessed that. he wou4i.tatber hear of him than hear him, and that he would lather read. a re -port-Obis actions in his Commander's letteis•in the Gazette than a 'report of his ,speeclies ,in the House of Commons or elsewhete in thecotumni of a news ' paper, Much-as the Noble Lord linowof the flavY, he could 4iO4fielleVe Litat khe NObloLord appreciated the cha;a6ter, of th:it cjaSs'ot *weii so even as he hitoself, when he declared that if i i.e kts of t by Court of Admiralty were Bred sail of .t he 'line now emiiloyed duced to forty,. or when he. iutimat, d ihat i they require a any other s.tirnatts than thew sense or, public duly. Ad% ening te) by the, Noble Lord upon a tkiiined Friend of tits, who was Judge of the Vice Court of Admiralty,-at Malta, he de!ended -the.. Conduct of h:s: Learoed wfiich• he contended was as free how' blame •as toat. of the other high 'and rcvectatile : characters- who. had incuited the_ censure 'at the Nonle LOrd. • Sir C. POLE thought the capiors ought not. to be cc - impelled:to pay 3Q per cent, for the condemnation of prizes. This hoWever was the state of the case. When au Officer objected to it, he wins told, that if he did nut- consent, the pr.ze Would hc condeinned . as a (holt to the • Ci own. • When ,such charges went abroad, - it was obvious they must have a bad effect on our navy, and he would therefore a;k the House if if were not necessary that the subject should be looked into, the papers produced, anu thecalmanies (if such they were) refuted ? Thee was a case, : which . must be fresh in the memory : ?t . every one, where a'number of vessels being detained, the cap for applied to a Proctor, fur the purpose of engaging ili(11 to prove the calyored vessels to be the property, of the enemy. In a f e w days a . war broke out be tween that Power under whose colours they ap peared, and within the space of threedays no less than 200 vessels, thus detained, were, condemned to the king. , ' He concluded, expressing his disappro bation of having but one Proaor to apirly to in such .-cases. • Mr. ROSE had a propositiOh to make.' Though he objected to the production of 'the pipers relating to the whole of the ships named in au 'potion, if the Noble Lord would move for tho.e relating to any, one of them, he should • have no -objeClion to the motion, and he . thought to bring forward a„ny one case would he quite , as fair, but less incpnye- • nience than the whole. f Sir JOHN NICHO' LS defended the condu& of the Court of Adm ralty, and said that the. Advocates in that Court were not higher paid than in the other Courts, and that the King's Prodor did not charge more than any other Proctor. It had been 'stated -in the newspapers, that the rerrioluments of 'the King's Advocate were from ,25,0001. to. 30,0001. a year. Now the fa& was, that they dd not exceed 70001. a year on the average, and that was not till on account of the Navy. As to the giving 301. per cent..on the proceeds o; a captured convoy to an in dividu.ll, it was 'far the benefit of the captors, as it was paid by agreer.ient for information, without which they wbuld . not have been entitled to a Will , ling. The case was this :—ln 1803 a convoy of. vesseß, laden wi'h masts and shiti-timber„vns tured on its passage from Vigo to Embden, which were both of thettt neutral ports. There was every reason to sap; use that-it was- enemy's property, though by the documents it appeared to be Prosslan property. While . the matter was under inves,iga tion, a war with, Prussia broke alit. 'The. vessels would have gone to the Cro n, as Malts of the Admiralty, if that individual had not given such in-- I)rmation as satisfied the Court_ and the Govern-. went, that the convey, although appearing by the documents to be Prthsian property, was,in reality French property. If then the individual had,3o per cent, for producing this proof, the captors had 70 per cent. on the convoy, not one shilling of which Would they • have been intitled to, if it were . not foi tie proof which that individual was able . to produce. Lord COCITRANE, in reply,. said, he only wished the Ad of Parliament on the subleti tobe complied_ with. If other Proaors were' as exorbitant in their demands as the King's, it was because their situation, in CooSeqUence of what the, other exalt sively• enjoyed, obliged them to be The only way Ministers had left to them to jutity those he had accused, was to shew that tht charges he had brought forward were unfounded. He had taken 180 pipes of wine; for which the received 4501. He brought in t 6 of them, and paid 6701, duty on them. It was not every one that would choose to lttuy them. He bought -it because he liked small wing (a laugh). If proper encouragement were given, a much greater number, of prizes would be sent in. At present the commerce of France was almost uninterrupted. The cause originated in the Admiralty Courts. Our navy-cost us annually 20 millions. Six inight.be saved, and the commerce of France destroyed. He expected Lat the men opposite would defend such ,abuses, but from their known abilities he expected they would defend them better than they did. 'The King's Prottor did not receive less than 40,9001. per annum ; he did not think it right that lie should receive more than the Speaker did for sitting in the Chair of :that House. The Noble Lord then justified his conduct at Malta, and concluded by enforcing his former argtiments. Captain BERESFORD 'said, the Noble Lord had spoken of British Officers as neglecting to . do duty, because they had not a prospeCt of sntficient emolument. He believed they Nould do their duty if they had not 'sixpence in the world. • Lard COCHlZANEexplained. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUaR thought bringing for ward one_of the cases would answer every purpose. Ifthere were a distinction ()leases he could bring forward t i wo. It wouldlie better than incum bering the HoUse with the whole. He• was anxious the calumnies should be met .• and refuted; but wished the Noble Lord. would seek better infor, mation than that contained - in the book alluded to. .As the falsehood of that work in some parts had been shewnlie hoped the Noble Lord would be careful what credit he gave to the rest ,of it, Mr. FREEIYINLE was of opinion the Noble Lord would have dune .veil to have corr,eted himself with respect to the income of the King's Proctor. The Noble Lorcl had,said it amounted to 40,0001. a year :' if 11F inspected the Report delivered. into the, Committee of Ficjabee, tie' would find it did not ex ceed 7or 8000l* • - . Lord COCHRANE agreed la the proposition of the Right Hop. Gentlepaan . pppusite, and accordingly moved fol• docuthents rel.iiing to two .of the vessels named in the original motion, the Two Sister, Cap tured by the Lord Nelson hired armed ciater, aucl. the Amphion. ' . . .. ~ a hb quest ion was then put and agreed to. . Ls rd COCHRANE then moved for the authority by ‘irtue of which the King's Procioracted in.son uetunauun of ships, dated Marsh 29, 1779. . Mr. ROSE said there were two dueurnents of thtt nature. . • Lord COCHRANE explained which of the two he .wished to be produced. 4fter a tew words from Sir W. SCOTT, the MO tiOil was put and carried. Mr. Rose said, he would then move for the other document, dated 1708.. Lord FOLKESTONE Objeaed to the motion being made .without a preViots notice. , . Mr. Rose never knew 4 . was necessary when one of his Majesty's MinisterS :moved. for docernentS from his o wn office ; he, however, had,no objection to postpone hi; motion . 011' to-morrow,- and gave notice accotdingly. • r BREACH OF PRIVILEGE. . . Mr. YORKE rose to call the attention of the House .to what. he considered a gross breach of the privi. leges .the House. •If it appeared to them as it did to him, be thought no opposition would be made to the motion. As far as that to which he alluded•concerned himself, it gae hint no.uneasi. ness he treated such things with contempt, but at the present time ,he thought it proper to come to some 'understanding about their privileges; as They wete trenched upon day atter day,, If they did not .soon. exert Therrselveg, _ it would be thought !bay. ' wanted spirit to assert their privilecres. He 'would read part of a placard which he herd M his hand, in which his name was joined with that of an HOn. Gentleman opposite, and in which al so ap p e ared a decree of a self-colistituted society called the " Bri tish Forum," which ran thus :—" Last Monday, after an interesting discussion, it was unanimously resolved, that the enforcement of the Standing , Or der to exclude Strangers from the Gallery of the House of Common.s ought to be censured as an insi dious and` ill-timed attack on the Liberty'of the Press, as tending to aggravate the grievances of the people, and' render,,their representatives objects of suspicion." This censure, he contended, applied to the Orders themselves. Though lie Was a friend to - the liberty, he '!it as an enemy to the licentiousness of the }gyres;, and those he, thought were the greatest .of friends to the liberty of the press who were Most forward to 'oppose, the abuse of it, as the abuses of it ;Were most likely to endanger it, and occasion its overthrow. - After some further obser vations, he moved, that the Clerk , shnuld re id't hat article of th 6 Bill'of Rights relative to the aright of discussing what passed in that House out of doors. The Placard was then read, by the Clerk; after which the Article from the:Rill:of Rights, which s.ft forth = that the Debates and-Procteding4 in tii'ar Honse•Were not to be questioned in an) place our of Parliament. Mi. Yo luck then .moved, that the Rdnter be or. dered to appear at- tf;e B;r of the ifoc.,e morrow No bpPosition was made to the mo ron, end rho PriPter, T. Dean, Wardour-street; W 43 ordered 11) ap f ear at the Bar. , BULLION. On the motion of Mr. HORNER, a Sdle& CO:- mime -was appointed to inquire into the preioi lt high price of Bullion. Mr. PONS6NBY gave-notice, that he'woUitl 'to morrow mote for Returns, of ,nll Foreign Vessel trading under Licenses frouti Liverpool to Has London., The Committee of Supply as postponed Friday, and that of Ways and Means .to-,AN., 11 " nesday. . LORD CHATHAM's NARRATIVE. _ . . On the motion for the House going into the' Committee on the' Expedition to the Scheldt, . Lord FOLKESTONE observed, that the IttgoirY: a Vaticed so slowly, that though a fortnight 'had poss .. _ ed since the commencement of it; nothing of-ito'.• • - portance bad been done. He thought it proper to allot more time to it. He had, 1161A/67. 1 A. 7, 1, to - tall the, attention of the B ouse to soniettlit)Pa (-iftl -extrabalinary. A paper had been called fir a-lc'''. nights back, which he conceived there would hitv °, : been a great difficulty in'pooducing, and the iir (l-- du&ion of which he thought a great irregularity .-- , The, House, he thought, would pause before: 01 1 1 consented to admit it. The paper was a .narrati'-o relating to the condfid of Lord Chatham, giver` il l • by him to the King, without the intervention of any Officer whatever. It 'was drawn up withjot. being addressed to any one—without any sort 01 , heading, and subscribed Chatham, and purportec.. to have been presented to the King. How we'' they to know that it was correct ? Who Nirzs resPen sible for it ? It was slated to hate been I)rodur_ ' .ed tt y F. n ti o le t iri h t a lle nc7ll Ho or oZ f a l t h t e bt x i ( ;l l- 1 1 e 6 ) (1 . 11er H ( o h N e v , c L arn (Yr e d that‘vas the Chancellor of the .4xchequer should produce a paper on military matters ? Another extraordinary thing, was, that they were informed by the news papers-some months ago that a. paper of the kind bad been put into the King's hand. Now the paper in question was . not moved fur before the tSib _of February, and though it pureortt..d to have been . written in OetOber, it appeared not to have. been presented to the. King till the 14th, the day before it was mentioned in that House. How did they know but it was not in 'existence more than 4 8 hours. before it was moved for ? How did theY know it had not been put in existence:On that ".": casion y The order under the sign manual diretteu him, as Commander of the Exi.edition, to corre• spond with the Secretary of -State; instead 'of doing so he ',lad gone to the, King with' his narrative. He had. not read it himaell; -he knew nothing of It s contents. . The Heuse ought to be cautious. hot'' they received a document under such circumstances . How had it been produced ? Had it.come frorh any offiee,' Or had'i he Chancellor of the Exchequer 'been into his Majesty's closet for it ? Mr:CANNING-apprehended the paper was address ed to the King, and not to any Minister under I.vhom he had - been employed. He though question whether it should be received in that form ought to be seriously v‘ei&hed. He did not know of thing that could do away o r even qualify the objettion. He should it every.order must be supposed to be addressed to -- sane responsible 011ie cer,- and it, would lead to. the most serious conse'l', quences, if papers were thus submit tt cl to the Kings instead of being 'conveyed in a constitutional ner tei that House. The House Might g et i' n° `cry unpleasant sittsation, if, having l ead this P 3; -per, - -they were to go into a mixed centersat,ioll on 0 the.sobjett. He thought nothing v.-as to be c b ha t ra ßi ete w r it. o ll f dr C a w orn th m e a l l ) id al e i r e. rip as of a Cabinet Minister. It should be vvithdiawn at' 'addressed to tlie "Secietary of State; to be by h e i ' 6 .. t communicated to the HOU3O: This lineof cod,' - be„f tht%; Chief,it .vvasai‘lvdrintt(e)tniiniithiria7_,,: humbly submitted, to . the coesideration House, as becoming acquainted vt'ith the contents of the paper might, instead of siiiiplifYis*/ retie make.the business more complex than it vot e ' otherwise be. This he proposed OS'Il s imple rerny by which they Might avoid inconvenience.s of C oo" siderable magnitude. 413 The CHANCELLOR of the EXeHEQUER agreed 4' of his Right Houourable Friend, that the .receiving the' paper could not be colleeted from ttS contents. He boa ever' contended, that the 0° 134- . had not been taken by _surprise. The paper - vas 'described when it was moved for, anti 111" , ' 0 * a s 9 e • • ty o' . rite ,time when any doubts as to the proprie receiving it ought to have been expressed, if-sucDr ought to have been expressed at alt.*: The pap a had been depwsited in the Office of )he SecretatY of State for the War Depi . rtuient,. and the res 1)"" propriety sibility, if .any, must attach itself to Lord Liver-. pool. He could see no objection to the paper being read. be - - ' General Lori. had no intention of talcirlg - House by surprise; on the contrary, he WO g lve-n notice of the motion for producing the paper. - [The - Narrative- was thee - reed. Irepriricipalif related to -the operations of the armament previous, t i l t; o i p t its r landing s f ; or i ts debarkation, progress up the Schekh and the ,10 tlje 11011 With the Admiral, .Sir R. Strachan; on bead. Amoeg other observations, it WaS therein." • stated, that the Cemmander in Chief had.comina .oleated with the `Admiral - Sri • the 3d' Ateeat, 011 the, pre,sino- necessity -of m tid `raking a Isllng the utino , t t) dispatch. To that communication • no • answer'r . had been returned until 'the. Bth. titter some farther observations, it concludes with swoop that the Adrhiral. would, no doubt, account for delay - which arose - in - the iia\al part of the atiitla 7 .7 meat, se far as res. eeted :the want of ; in landing.] 7 - Lord.FeeregTotas was at a loss. to c onteive;hl the paper could be got rid of, fiat ing (ince, laid upon' the table of the H ou se. H a e,els the genourab,le Member ha d for it,; pro lot:' tiOn, and he was sorry ;ii.so that -the li,ight 1 1 %'"; Gentleman had produced it, hecanie the taper , h '" fob: 1 1d its way to the Royal i - :reSence in a most- " li. constitutidrial- rnanni!r, and fat w hich no• Minister, was responsible. - Thu Noble Lord wo=rld be -Or° to hear ftom the Chair in what manner it could..bo disposed of. YORKE apologized for having Misunderst eea the nature,eif i nahat wari,d:cri before the 'Haase- I.l `-. thou ht the raper (night to have.beee objeeiJe d when It was about to be refe ed to , the arvi to tbc, - • F R