The Sun. — London, England, 1818-05-09 00:00:00

veyor.Gentral of Woods ail _Forests. 'Connect - tit as he was with a Noble relative Who hail pre ceded that Right Hon:Gentleman in that depart ment, he called upon him, if any ground Of - charge existed, to bring ittforward in a substantive.usan.. tier before the House. lie could not help some staprise, from the terms of friendship and . intercour--e on which he had the honour Of living' with his Hon. Friend, that he had not - reeeived. from him some previous information of his listen.: tions on the subject. Mr. Mint:GUAM begged to assure his Honour aid e Friend, th a t th e .subject itself came before Lira quite suddenly Ile had no intention Of speaking on it at that moment, but for the occa sion presented by the Bill of the Right lion. Gen tleman. Ile had made no charge a g a inst th e predecessors of the Right Holt. Gentleman, the Sorveyor•General of Woods and Forests, lie could have made no charge against the Noble re lation of Isis Hon. Friend, as he did not know, even then, that any of the transactions to which he alluded had taken place during his administration of the oilier. It was of the system, as he said before, that he complained, %vide!, did not allow tistse lands t 4 be disposed of by public compe tition. Mr. liostcnssos: observed, that he had that morning exHlnined • into the two transactions al luded to by the lion. and Learned thooleman— the first respecting a sale to a Noble Lord, he wonld name him, Lord lVestmorland ; and the se cond as to the purchase by Lord Lonsdale' of the Barony of Kendal. Ou these ttvis purchases he took oleo' himself to say, that the strictest :wen. tion was paid to the puhlit interest. In tire fist case, Lord Westmorland had the noqualifiet: right of possession. That he held under a grant of a very ancient existence its his family. lie held the right of soil and of the wood. All that he had to purchase from the Crown were certain fOrestal pri vileges, which, as they could only be of value to the Lessee in question, would have been wholly unproductive at a public sale. As to the Barony of Kendal, it had been for two centuries in the family of Lord Lansdale, though at the period of purchase it was dependent on a - single life. 'The sonOunt arising front dry finesand gait • rents did not exceed 3001. per aonum.—When about to be sold, it was tendered to Lord Lonsdiale, and purchased by him for 14,0001.—A sum which no man would pay for it but the Lessee in possession, as that Noble Lord was. He (Mr. H.) would go farther, end say, that it was but justice to give a person in that situation tire right of pre•tuintion. It was done so recently in the case of an Honourable Gentleman, the Member for Band. Mr. BROUGHAM said; that Ire should bring tire sulkct again forward ; arid give notice for the pro duction of all correspondenee respecting thOse salts, particularly the correspondence with the Surveyors, whose estimate was received. Ile never imputed any blame to the Lessees in pos session for making the best brrgain they could:— It was to tire system that he oblecied. . . Col. Lout - Tli stated that there did not exist any. grounds for the insinuations thrown ont against the purchaser in the sale of the Barony of KendaL The Bill was then read a first time. *Second reading fixed for Wednesday next. IRIS!! FISHERIES. Mr. PEEL gave noiice of his intention to move on Wednesday next fun a Committee of the whole House, to take into conshK/atimt the various Laws respecting the Fisheries in Ireland. PRIVILEGE. • 4 Mr. WYNNE expressed a desire to submit a :no tion respecting Mr. Fergnsson, a prisoner in";siew gate, for an undue interference in Elections. 'the CussceLLoa of the Excumusainterpos ed, and put it to tire Home whether the subject should not be postponed until the . MemberS Were ill possession of tire minutes of evidence. Lord A. HAMILTON said, he held in his hands a Peti , ion . from Mr. Ferguston, praying; for his li beration, which ire had intended to present in the event of his Hon. Friend's (Mr. Wynne) motion being carried. Mr. ‘VYNN 8 presented the Report of Evidence, and there the subject dropped. ADJOURNAIENT. On the motion of the Cita s ceeton of the Ex. ciieaur.:u, the House was ordered, at its rising, to adjutants till Wednesday. F.Dut.vrtoN OF THE PoOR. Mr. Baouonam rose to bring forward the Bill for the better Education of the Poor. The Hon. Gentleman, at some length, made a variety of observations on the evidence taken before the Committee. There waS no cousiderable town throughout the kingdom, in which ten thou sand inhabitants were to be found, that • So cieties were not established • for this very Praiseworthy object. He strongly urged it on the attention of the House; that if Parliament were to vote sums annually, the private subscrip tions would relax, because the Public would think the necessity for subscribing no longer existed.. All that was required from Parliament was a proper school-house in each town any thing be yond that would be prejudicial. The . Hon. Gen tlernan read from a report taken in the reign of Queen Anne an account of tine expence of edit eating 4752 children, which amounted to 8,8001. in the present day, the expence for educating the same number, would, on a fair estimate, amount to no less a sum than front SI. to Jl. per head, whereas its the reign of Anne, the average was not more than 305." per head. The Committee had ascertained in the course of their enquiries, that the parents of the poorest in all parts of the country had the most ardent desire to benefit, by the instruction held out. They had proceeded with activity ins their search, and in the course of ten days they had received 6000 an swers. With respect to the difference in religious opinions, each sect might establish its own school in. large towns. Not so in small towns, for there the minority of the inhabitants, if they happened to be Dissenters, were to be excluded from the benefit, but on the other baud, if the majority were Dissenters, they admitted the Churchmen.— [The Hon. Gentleman here complained of the want of attention in the lloose.]—To remedy the ekvtect of coueation in the remoter and less populous districts of Eugland, the House would do well to adopt the system of education pursued in Scotland, p i.lischrsols. The late Air. Whitbread and Mr. Windham bad made many observations nn this part of the s . tibltct--- -. the Corti-ger, tsith that unbounded philanthropy, viewed it in tepro• per light,. while .the latter, full paroiloxes, was at variance with the progress of intellectual wisdom. It was, he observed. owing to Charles the First that the system of • l'arish Schools firstlook root in Scotland. This way in 1630, but Was not wholly perfected till 1692. In that cbuhrtyllre' salary for the sehOolmaster was origihslly from 81. to 101. It now is nearly doubled. Ile thett eulogized the blessings of these schot;ls, whit!), produced men excellently educated. In what part of the world Were Scotelonen not to'be found ? What country was there which had mit benefited by them ? lu Germany and Switzetiland they , ettled, and disseminated the practice of industry ;' and indeed in all other commies. When this subject was brought under the consideration Of the late Mr. Perceval, he said—" Wait till you have hail a Committee, and then see what the resait of their report msy be." This he bad now carried into effect, and the House would be furnished with intorma• lino on which to proceed, on a measure which, sooner or later, he was Convinced the [lonise was to adopt. The Min. Gentletnan then refer'r'ed to the evidence takeu before the Committee in respect of the fonds appropriated to charitable purpose`, yr Lich, by the returns, smoothed to 260,0001. a year in 1788 ; taking that the returns made only were one-third, the actual amount wool!l he front 7 to 800,000/.. 'Dose funds were received by Trustees ; hut there were other funds Mild) were 'not received by these Trustees, who had not sufli• cient powers given them for the purposes of their trost. Ile calculated, that if they had been pro perly authorized, the amount in the hands of the Trustees, from the increased value of land, would he from 2,000,0001. to 2,500;000/. The deficiency arose from this' cause, and front neglect, abuse, and other causes. He noticed the statutes on the subject, and stated some facts as - connected wi; h devises. In Berkshire, at the Restoration, some lands were devised fur charitable purposes, which cot 40001; In 1811, the lands only produced 1961. a year. Would the House believe that the trustees could thus neglect their dirty to the benevolent object of their trust ? Another estate was let ! . or 4501. a year s which a surveyor estimate:l at 10001. In other places, lands worth 20001; a year are let fat so many hundreds. What is done with the produce cannot be ascertained, for . the Corpotation refused to slew their disbursements. In another instance, Sir T. White left 24,0001. to be lent in cettssi sums to poor tradestiten. Another Corporation had, instead of lending the motley, taken it to themselves, to pay their own debts. The [lon. Gentleman detailed some other evidence, to prove that various - abuses existed in the application of the funds. In some instances monies were left, and never received ; schools founded a n d endow ed; and no children taught. In others, 'schools bad completely fallen into decay, though the funds still remained. Those were in Devonshire, Es. WI, Leicestershire, Nottisighanishire, Norfolk, &c. In respect of the neglect imputable to the Trusts, be quoted die opinion 'of Lord Kenyon in the case of Stapleford Abhott. Ile called upon the Houie to interfere, and Incorrect these evils. To thOSe Who were inclined to clamour, and to say that be was about to encroach upon and to meddle with pri vate property, he wished to observe, that these Charities were not private property, they were as much public property as any thing else which was given for the support of the po o rer class of the subjects of these realms. lie referred to the Statutes in support of his position - , particularly the 26th of the ItThig, which completely recog nized Charitable Institutions as in the light of public property. With respect to the Urtiversis ties, they were liable to enquiry.' Why, he asked, could we not have Commissions to enquire into the' state of Charitable Ins'titutions, as our hire fathers had ? From Queen Elizabeth's reign there were 900 Cononissions fur this impose down to the present reign. From the beginning; of the present reign to this time there Were only three Commissions. It was said the Court of Chancery was open to the correction of these abuses. Would they send the poor into that Court, who hail not a halfpenny, and were rendered still poorer by the dilapidation of their funds? It put him in mind of whit was innocently said by Mr. Erskine, now Lord ,Erskine, and which prodoced no small merriment amoug the Common Law Lawyers, when Lord Kenyon told him the Court of Equity was open to his client—'' would your Lordship send it fel low-creature there ?" A Commission, issued' iii 1803, to inquire into the ;those of a charity. In 1803 it was thrown into Chancery. In 1808 it WAS thought ripe for decision, and well it might be. It was four year§ standing at the head of the paper, and it remained niaecided at this day. He could not dismiss this subject with out expressing, as strongly us he could, his admiration , of the nonsense sums• appro.. priated to chat itable uses ; not by men possessed of estates equal to principalities ; not by men who have amassed immense wealth in the service of their country, and who wish to give back part of their well-earned wealth, or to conipound with theirconsciences for sums derived front less pure sources ; but by honest anti industrious trades men, who, by the benefits of gdod edtication, had raised themselves to situations they could not first havi- expected, and had appropriated large sums to the education of the poor. He then moved that the House shOuld . go into the Committee on the Education of the Poor. Lord CASTLEREAG H said, lie did not rise to offer any objection to the . motion ; and should support the plait of the Hoo. and Learned Gentleman, to whom he rave credit for haring the fairest and' best disposition to produce a great and beneficial effect by its operation. He should not, there fore, trouble the House with many observatiohs. He knew that in the course of tithe aboses must grow op in those institutions. %Vilest there were great numbers of institutions, no doubt abuSes would exist ;• and unless a vigilant inquiry was always continued, they could not be prevented from taking place. But the very comtnissiou proposed by the Hon. and Learned Gent. windd be subject to the delays he bad spoken of as existing in the Court of eltance P ry. It Was to that Court they must ultimately look up for the correction of abuses : for it would - be iinposSible that a conmaision of inquiry could erect itself into e. Court, of Chan eery. Tie was sure that the 'g'rct:teit `possible . good would arise f ro m the i nqu i r y, if it even did no more than that of calling public attention to this important sub:it-Ct. lie agreed, with the Learned Gent let,: 1n that the funds were public property; but as they were originally private pro perty, and destined by will to particular objects, they were so far private property, which "as not the case with Crown lands ; and it would be for Parliament to see that they should he stiictly ap plied to such purposes. The best precedent the /louse could adopt in this instance, would be to hollow the Acts for appointing similar Commissions in Ira:land. The last commission was carried on by persons who_ received no 'remuneration whatever ; here the case was . different, and the commission would be 'attended' with great expellee, because it was not to be expect& that men should devote their time and labour in such an arduous under taking without remuneration. But he tin it would add greatly to the weight and eflicacf of the commission it some perons of high station were added to it, without receiving any remune ration; at the Same tune that they should 00( be required to enter Sc) much into the laborious du ties of the office as the other Commissioners. Ile wished the Bill might now be committed, "the blanks filled up, and the report again considered after the holidays. With_ regard to the Universi ties, he agreed that they ought to be excepted ; and he must say, that nobody- cotnplained of any buses existing there. Time Was an excellent institution, where it was admitted on all liana that no abuse existed ; he meant the Charter house ; anti that place he should propose to except front the BT. Mr. BROUqUAM shortly explained. Mr. FOSTER supported the Bill, as far snit pro ceeded upon the principle of the precedent adopted with respect to the Irish Comoristioners, to the efficacy of whose labours he bore the fullest tes timony. Mr. F. RODINON wished the school of Harrow to be included in the exemption from the opera tion of this Act, arguing upon •its character hav ing been exempted from all blame in a late recent inquiry respecting the appropriation of its hinds. . BROUGHA:4 said, the face of its having been impeached spewed there had been 30tlie ground to . suspeet it had been misconduct ed. Mr. PEEL argued in favour of his lion. Friend (Mr. Robinson) for, the exemptioi of Harrow, and stated that on that occasion it had been proved to be the Will of the flinde'r, Mr. Lyon, not to confine the purposes of the school to the educe tiou of the iteighbOarritig poor. Mr: Airiecerimitie hoped the ComMiXtioners would' be allowed to makethe'Circitit"of the coun try, to enquire into all Charities., He oficcted tO the Comiliisiionerilrer4Barristiu-saetnally prac tising ; as there were' silffieient'GrUleinen, who had received a legal education, but did not actually practice at'the' Bar, Lord CASTLEitiAGII and Mr. Arskacaomnie ex plained. • _ „ Sir J. NEWPORT stated some circinns'ancei re lative' to the Act . of' ISOG, for a siMilar . inquiry in 'lreland: He' had 'the . honour of introduck4 that Bill. No exception of any school was Made in that 11;11, nor in the' Bill of 17S8. Mr. BkovoirAm explained as to•the expenses of the proposed COmmissim:s. If these Comtnis;. sioners should be the means of recovering large sums, he knew nothing more fain than that the Commissioners Should be remunerated from the funds so recovered ; therefore the public would only be obliged to advance to the CommisSioners, aml might atterwards be repaid from the funds. The house "then resolvra•irself into the Com mittee on the Bill. Mr. RoßEssoN proposed that the ILirrow School be exempted from the operation of the Bill. Alter a few observations from Mr. BRouottAm, Sir J. MACINTOSH, and Sir T. ACLAND, Mr. MILLS prolinsea that the Free School at Rkhy be also exempted.—(Laughter ) Mr. BENNET moved that the Shrewsbary Free School he exempted.—(Laughter ) _ _ Mr. IlaavEY asked the same favour for that at Norwich.—(lnereased Laughter.) Sir M. W. RIDLEY claimed it for the Free School at .Newcastle, as it had produced such great men as the Lord Chancellor and his brother.— (Laughter.) Lord CArrt.tay.AG:n was disposed to exempt the Harrow and Rugby Schools, but not to extend the exemption further. Alter a few words front Mr. LOCKHART, Mr. BRoUGHAM rejoiced that there were not more Members present, otherwise the proposed exemptions would be ten times more numerous that) they were. The Committee then divided on Mr. Rozirt- Sotes motion— For exempting the !farrow School 4O Against it Mijority against the Motion —93 On being re-admitted, the Lord Advocate, Mr. Brougham, and Lord Binning were foumiconvers . - ing respecting the propriety .of the mea sure to Sco The House then resumed, and the Report was received, and ordered to be taken Into cOtisiderit Lion next Friday, and to 'be printed. On Mr. BROUGH M's motion, illStrtlCooll9 were ordered to be given to the'Committe'e on Eltrea. t ion, to inquire into the State of the Edueat ion of the Poor in Scotland ; and. the house 'agreed to resolve itself into a Committee of the %%hole I-louse, on the salaries to he granted' to the'Com missioucts, next Wednesday. IRISH ASSESSED TAXES. Sir H. PARNELL complained, on the Chancellor of the Exchequer moving the other Orders of the Day, that his motion for a Committee on the Irish Assessed Traes bad been put off from time to time at the desire of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. lie wished his motion to come on iannediately. The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER wished it sinl further postponed till some day when notices should precede orders. Sir J. NEw PORT objected to postponement, as injurious to the interests of Ireland, there being a fuller attendance of Irish Members than at any time during the Session. Ile moved, instead of the other Orders.of the Day being now read, that the House' shoutd reso;ye itself into a Committee on the Irish Assessed Taxes. After some conversation between Mr. Peel, Mr. • TierneY. Mr. Lusiiington, Sir J. Newport withdrew his Amendment. Report of :lie S•eani 13oats Bill was broogo sip, and the. MI re-committed. it' Mr. HARVEY withdrew an the claoses ~e fit ing inspectors of steadi engines on [warn —lO vessels. The Bill was then ordered to be 11 `' third time on ‘Vednesd3y nett . lir then were The other Orders of the bay v i r d• .and Mr. D. Broivnes, posed of, and the House adjourned till nesday., IDDLESEX SESSIONS. CASE OF GREAT DEPRAVITY. ea Mary Myers and Sar a h J o seph were ind ict for receiving a quantity of shawls, stnchliir handkerchiefs, and other articles, the propetlYeli Elizabeth tVinter, knowing them to 1 1 3 " M e lt stolen.—The trial excited the greatest p ass interest. It appeared from•the evidence,, that.the tey of the prusecutrix, an uncomMonly pre tt Y, gir l it 13 years of age ; was in the habit of in the street, and that by her industry she ren * ed great assistance to her nidihei, Min he „, P e - e little shop where articles of the d e scription ,'") booed in the indictment were About ov e months ago, this child unfortnhately 2 ° ll quainted with the two pri soners , w ho kept 911- , 1 1. clothes' shop in Dock-place. Ceitnuterci They induced her to call to see them. :ilia trea r t oii her %%ith sac]; tendern e ss that site c onsento" l',, her mother for them. She began with greAt C4 no tion, but at last becam e so bold as to seize the" - most valuable things th a t presented °plc.:1411; selves, and was Wholly OtCllpied in fltAing 9 t de* gar at her mother.; %rho svgs at this mon'el l os pendent upon the parish for support, 411 " without a fan bing iii ti a wt,thd, fret, The proteentrik, who had fainted wi"i - 51 . 1 6 daughter . was giviiig e vid enc e, c ab le torwar"' n oW was the very picture of misery, anti was stallg . to the bone. Some time elap se d b e fore slleict)eir-, proceed. She said she hail been in t oter4t?!;ole must bCfoie her daughter had falter` itt`..lict society of the priserners. Before that - 1119 e„..... child was the must hidustrimis and iitrecticool''r ► Iler conduct since had redu ce d h e r Ole I lr ; , e : cutrix) to beggary, and the blink" of ti,eg" the The priSoneri denied that they had kon 6- property was stiden goods, th h e They were found Guilty, a nd sentenced u 7, Chairman, who sail he nev e r h ear d a m ore 6r fully wicked case, to "two years' imprlsow"s t hatli FIRE AT THE . GROTTO PUBLIC4IOUSS• ".I f 2 ' 3 4 o'clock yesterday. Morning an a hrin o f fir c , e ',„tt given in Lant•strect, 13h.rough, and the b"c' of the Grotto public-house w a s discov d eie , thitie.' The family were iintnediite l Y by the watchmen, and narrowly cstal'e' l cation in making their way the The fire butint . full until the r i ( 1 0 0 ' cif the engint s' about thrre o'clock, " I !' h c wA 4 municated' to an adjoining partly destroyed.Wattr was wit that ti~~ procured, and it was not till fire o'clock ( cc) flaines were subdued. The liak part of 'llle'—r°,lo; was demolished, and other parts of The'" lls t ort e terially injured. VeriouS articles of turnitorei,‘) u• thrown from the , windows jilt() the street , alia(ler; siderably - d maged. it bas not yut h ee " twined whethkr the conflagration wasocc.alre' by accident or design. Ti c c i rct , u voanc e peated attempts baying been made to de s " (9 ,Dlic' building by fire, is already known to th e P L alis: and m sees to justify the suspicion that tltr tb tit` covered incendiary is not unconnecte d late affair. COAL MARKET, May S. e' p r ic gb Ships at Marhet. Skips ROW: 44 5 ' ibl. 471 Neweao le 31 Sunderland. .. .. 1 Welsh Coal 3 , 4 12 1 4 1. .. 36, 3 . 4 55 ss i ... 90 01 : • t ti , 00_ 4 9 . 4 . 7: 4 . --- y 9' O COURSE OF EXCHANGE, FHI VAY, NL I ii . 4 c.f. I A ) i n t i t s o t e , r : d , t a n s l ight 37 ... s 6 6 Cf . Amstet dam .. • • I t Ditto, at Sight 4 i 'CP iVie i , , . Rotterdam " rtf , ,%' aj 0., Antwerp 1 1 1•.• ..,1 0 '' L's' Hamburgh 34 t q 34 1`) Altona 4i " ,„. e 4 . Paris, 3 Day's date ',Ditto 3vE ?, il' 41 t Bti ordeaux, ditto ,tic Frank fort on the Main ' „„ „ 14= ,, f,tie-, ir e Nladrid Cadi .. . z Bilboa 'V 49 re 6 % 39i Seville '39 • ''''''' Gibraltar _ 35 B 3.4 - arcelona Leghorn . . . Genoa...• Malta... .. 51 -Naples 44 , ser • 47 , 1-Venice, . Ital. •. Lie. 95 . oa . 1 1 3"' ' Palermo . Lisbon • 584 bf1. • Oporto 1 Rio Janeiro Dublin.... ..... ICS. .... C0rk..... 10 per Cost. Agio of the Bank on Holland.... 2 rer Cent. ~ per °l . , BULLION. 0 " Portugal Gold, in Coin L• 0 ti Nev Dollars 0 5_.„... the On the sth inst. at Low BIRTH ly ParL, near Go d , f J. W. Spicer, &q. of a son, to • fortiO t° OR Thursday, the 7th inst., C a ptain James Miss Mary . Ilan mon, daughter of the late ..12°D)3' Esq. of Wellclose-squarr. d 51 ' ar,c tit Nagr re ' ,v 01), /~ ~~ DLED. On the 2111 h of November , 181.7, a. Gy e. or Sotheby, Esq. . the W l ' Cw e j Do the 11th . of December fact, 0n boarde Oa paDy's .ship Streatham, William Parker Esq. f ° ll' 1 Civil Service. • „ ,:ent. ~1 liat On the 5111 inst., at Slower Proviist, Dorset, a!`. Rev. At 14;: i s i •:: , 1 1 . :1 ,i t ir ) g l l i , t , •er o , i l i ). 1 1 1 ) ,e . lite:titioru..ity:7lnr.tiViirt,;:qells /10 farmer at Hillhead, Count • of Fditibur 'h, agv E d 71: g'er, j ,Y At Delnies, near tivirti Y , in the 104t1t Verfti - 01 1......3 0 .-- tf ' , Royal ßvid Scots '' P ?i) :8 ' d y . minillP B . tlavini, , entered the serviee in the '2 vl bi+t e3 ' „ ___-.....--<:: )ears ago. ~ 1. ., ‘,t 0 1 . 1 e oldest soldier in his Me llott pi „ LONDON” I'rintr'l bv 3. B. CARST-ÜBS, of sO Ormolui-sireet, Qin..en-squart'; and published pi SCRIPPS, ./f No. 7, Suntfr Niolton-A' re et, ° t i t ( No. 112, Strand ; wkrtc Advettkunie° Lvt.tv.is, (post-paid) must be sitldrgsstd . • / .1 rp 4 ti 4 A~i{ i ;~.. ~'f~~ lr rr t~oh 11,••