The Sun. — London, England, 1809-01-20 00:00:00

wag impotsible to ascertain whether it expressed the general Selliitlletlteal the 113tip11. The Honourable Gentleman deprecated the introcluftion of a regular army to assig an irregular force. Certainly, early in the war, tile Spanish troops were lot:lira:1d irregular; but this' force was boon - found to be inetfeetive.— Yuen in Andalusia a regular army was established, and it was not until they got a regular army that the Spaui4rds were ena!,:led to make an efieetUal strug 141v, and to - ieduee the' r puiver of the enemy by the defeat of Dupont, at the memorable battle.of Bay-. km. Tl o course of events decided 'the question between alteular and irlegillar force. . When Ma tbil was evacuated, and the ;CrOvineefi pureed of the h, eveiS, tlovince reit the necessity , of advanc- in! its troops, and they weae consegticotly advanced and consolidated in trfe,eutitre(ll the kingdom. Ilk halt, therefore, no option—tie oinion had been rnath by Spain. They had .cho,eti th 9 :nolo of regular:warfare, and it would have M b...fitted the Charaeler of Great Britain to have shrunk hoot the contest, and to have said to aim Spaniards—“ We will give you money—we will Ove - you stOrew s but we will not hazard .our blood in rotir defence." The Hohourable Oentlerpan had r,e-erted, that before see had. committed a British into Bpain, we ought to have well 'wow!) wien means of security that army possessed, in the event of a reverse of fortune, and that it Wotild have bthr no impeachment of their zeal in the Spanish cause, ha - d'Ministers demanded from Spain caution., ars' terms, for the purpose of affording that assist. anee. For his part, he knew of but one town in Spain which answered the description given by the I lononrable Gentleman, and that was Cadiz. As to Faint, :it was not a town that any military man • svirtild say could atlind the assistance required by the *lloirourable-Gentleinan. Cadiz did certainly corn. pletely afford the opportunity of .securing the re embarkation which the Honourable'Gentleman,con tittered scrilesirable. But he put it to the feelings Of the House and of the Country; if in the opt ser such. a proposition bad been made by Government .(and more especially, had they adopted the fantastical 10 . :heme of the Hon. Gentleman, of fighting on the Pyrenees) 'to the great and geherons Spanish ,na tion, whether it was. possible to conceive that any, apple of discord could be thrown among trier'' more likcly to be . destruCljve in its consequence --the, ra ther, as the point or, Cadiz would not bear . the least tin that in which the j(?.ilit exertions 'of the two . countries :were to be carried on. What would the have said, if the expeditjon had been delayed . because a negociation was pending with Spain to put Cadiz' into tho, hauds•of the British ? The Honour: able Gentleman had cud,' and said truly, that the lionse . was not in possession of regular information tilt these subjeets, His wish was . , that every intiT- Ma;ion sha'std be afforded that would not be pre- jad'e's' to the public Service. With.reliett to Por toga!, he had the satialgtiou to say; that he was, not aware that any jelblie incbtweniettee would result: from •the most unqualified diselesurct, btit the House . Svould feel, that'while the campaign in Spain bad, riot terminaied, the, .public inteeest might require the exercise of discussion in the inforruatio'n to be itaerdcd. On, the 'question, whether the military opi;rations of . this: countriAthonla lnive been de sc-ribed first to Spain' or to . Portugal, he differed flour the Hon, )3 1 / 4 ...ntletnan, who thought that theyAboold hat 4 l been di6ted first to SO.tio.- Certainly. there eoold be no fallacy Inure extraordibary . , than the veliiiiisicnt fancy enterhincd by the. Hon. Genii& num, of posting,an army in the passes of the Py renees, to interitipt a communication between two hostile arrrties', caeh• of them superior to it' in strength. l'he Hon. Gentleman talked of • landing an.. army, and putting it-in motion, with as touch ease as he would of tacking a ship ; but he migla one day or other, perhapii, find out, that it was not (phi.: so easy a matter as he imagined. A, ship had every thing within itself, ,and abaft! move •or tight without any regard to ef , :ternal circumstanees.. The Honourable Pentreman conceived, that atter , an* army bad landed, it had nothing to do but to set off the next morning on its 'operations. If, howeVer, the military exertion of this country were to stand still until an army could he lauded, which should. be ready to move. on the next day, 'they, would stand as . pull its they had stood under that vigorous Adminis tration vt hieh had oe'ver dotte any thing. It' the arm y had landed at' St. Andeiro l Or even at St. Se. bastian's; he could assure the Honourable' GlltlEt 'lain (and the, lamentable. experience of Blake Con-, firmed that assurance); that it 'would have been in', cl,:tole of operation, and that, .if it could have sl:rtitiblerl to, a poaition, it would tle.yer have room cd from it. Of all'the•fanciftil tanipaigni that ever existed in the mind of a military tlletaiSt;Alle Calli raigo of the ,1- 7. rettees appeared to 'him to be the most whimsical - and alt aird: Among his charges against his Majesty's Govel meta, the - Honourable Gentleman had accused t.hcitt of having allowed the Expedition to WI without a dislinct, object, to seek its fortune, a 3 he termed it, and that its ultimate de. • stination was left ro the discretion an te distinguish td Officer tt, vairriecornmand it was nitrustod; Had ibis actually been the case, had this confidence been reposed in the gallant Qiiiter,dlude r d to, lie did net know irate) whose bends. it ,ottld have ~..4een mere safely pitieett. but if the lionottiable Gentleman would inspect the dot...up:tits, which he rot,ol have on calling for them, he would, find that that expedi. tirin sailed with the nest distinctly &tined. purpose.. By an enter of - .the 13th of June, Sir Arthur Wel. I, sley bad been directed to proceed, ithrnediattly . to the Tagus, and motto lose even.the time which truulcl require'tO land at Cornnaa. However, he cry wiscly'did avail himself of a change of Oretllll - stances, arid landed pmornally at COrttrma, hi pre ference to .otendin4 a mess.enget. Government Lad received predse idtornation: from Sir C. Cotton, (cel l ielk afterwards turned out to be etr4treous), that the'euerny• sells in such inconSiderable force, that with Shoo ttoops he could get into the Tagus duct take full postessien•of ad that was necessary. flog, therefore,* could he more distinct than the in. ari l io.i c io d given to Sir , A., Wellesley ; but surely it wrieldhave beea'mosr nowifse; amidit,ineh fleeting solles, to have' tied rip the of that exml • lent Offreerrind to lentetold hirn, that if Oita .object t,l cl,not ste.ced, his corps was to' be prevented from doing any thing else Oritti ihe • . kreard .frorn home. If the fon. Gentteinair was nut ok - '4, similar opinion, (;ft.,!.rect very mulch tiont some ofhisfri:entis,'whq v c re_ net . then present; One tion.'Oentlernati,„ eitrticulitr,' bad • strongly stared,. on it former oectAr thlit 14.1 ikaye a 4oatinki fot,ce ;cat/1: lo krocsed to, any point where its se.rvices might be required, was a mode of annoyance to the enemy Most rtittahle to the actuation ,of the country. lint the Hon:Gentle- Man did not see how so small a corps could- do any service. The filet was, that a much smaller corps had crone very essential service. General Spencer, with less than 5000 men had driven back from Cadiz to Ayamoute, in their advance to Seville, a part of Junoi's - army, tedoced the power of the French in Andalusia, and had accelerated the defeat of Dupont. With respect to the aqiiciency of cavalry, had it not been for an accident, Sir Arthur Wellesley would have gone less equipped in that respea than he did go, for he (Lord Castlereagh) did not con— ceive cavalry neCcssaty on !inch a servite. - Had it. not been that a part of the 20th dragoons was, in the Mediterranean, which induced Government to'setid 'the remainder front hence, that body of cavalry . would not have gone. He denied, however, most strongly, that the want of Cavalry could influence . the decision of. the General Officers in the Conven tion of China, and *protested against the; principle that the British army were not to ad when the Ca- , ialry attached to them was unequal to that of the enemy. Such rt . principle would have blotted out of the English annals the Battle of Alexandria, where . Sir Ralph Abercrombie had but 150. Dragoons to (lpase to above 20no hostile edvalry. At 1%46, • Sir John Stewart had no catalry at all. If such a principle as that advanced by the Honotirable Gtm tletnan were to guile the Councils of the Country; it would be most fatal. It was certainly fair . for the OfficerS to say that the absence of Cavalry deprived,. them of availing themselves so completely of their. advautagc'ns they might otherwise have done. On the 2)st, when the Fiench 'army were routed; in a manner in which it had never before been rooted, had the British possessed Caplry, it might certainly have been 'annihilated.. But it was not: the absence of Cavalry which prevented Sir Arthur Wellesley finin Irving all the" advantages to which his shill: and galhotry had entitled him. The House would recollea the impatience of the COUritry at that period;: althotigh he certainly did not mean to say that 1114 • impatience ought in any way to be 'unwisely grnti, fled, yet Having understood that 5000 men would be sufficienttbr the purposes of the expedition, ters.unquestionably exercised a sound discretion in sending without del a y a force that appeared to them to be much more Chan i adequate to the objedin view. m Mr. WHITBREAD went over neatly all the argu 'Penis adduced by Mr, Porisonby. • • • - 111 t. Secretary CANNING, in reply, remarked that the lion. Gentleman, in the same breath in which he told the Hatisethat the present crisis' ought to be cultarly exempt from political ,feeling, intimated 'that' 11tinistera should be put upon their trial, and that they, prdbably , deserved condign punishment. • For his part he was not. aware that this was the light in which he and his coadjetors stood. Certainly his -Ma-' jesty's Nltoisteri stood in a situation of responsibility, but not one of, culpaUility... They had done their ditty in following up .the feelings of the Country, and in using the, means intrusted to them in Support of that peat cause which bad excited those feelings ;`• if there shOtlld be a failnre, that failure would pot be the result of accidental or intentional omission on their part ; _that the Hon. Gentleman had shewtr that he'aed his friends had pbt agreed on the prin ciple of thew accusation: He had beard only two of the Committee, of Aecusers, and 'he confessed, ,that' if before the.rising of Parliament he had had time advantage of hearing the opinion of those two, and of reading the Pamphlet attributed to one of them, instead of an increase of light, lie should have experienced an increase of perplexity. The Hon, Gentleman, who had just spoken, echoing his Oita- lished opinion, (it it attually wits his, of which he 'sometimes doubted), seemed to consider. the course to be pur4ted by' Goys:mmolC so plain that they: could sea rce l v do ill by piing wrong. The oilier Hon. Gentleman, on the contrary, appeared to think . • that ,no step ought to be taken :wikholit the Most ma tnre deliberation ; that whatever was done in, haste miust , be done erroneoUsly, and that it was the duty of Ministers to hesitate, ana resist the impulse' of popular feeling, as, unequivocally and consentaneously expressed. •Were he to .decide between the two; the Hon. Gentleman Who spoke last would have his. 'Concurrence; but the other Honourable Gentleman was nut wholly unreasopable,' when he stated, that Whatever mighthe the .principle of action, the mode in which that aft ion should be concluded, so as to Conduce most eifettually to the desired 'objedt, de .nianded mature consideration. That Hon. Gentle-. man told the House ,that he millet:led all his faets from the Newspapers. Now the. truth might be,. and he believed was, that from the Newspapers he. derived his arguments; where the Hon. Gentleman got his faflit he knew not. Of this he waf certain,, . that for the, last three weeks he had read in the News papers the argunients urged by the Hon. Gentleman, and that too tit ihe order in which they Wereentiiley ed by him. In his l'ae.is the Honottrablt : Gentle man Was very unfortunate. He statedi.;: that-on the 31st of July, what he called the' Supreme :Central Junta had issued preCaut ions which Conveyed an admirable lesson of the tactics advisittmlo hiSFaiu ; yet, and by a st range' perversity or judgment, his Ma jetty's Minitters communicated nut with. the Su- Prothro Centraljunta, but with the Provincial Junta, at Was the Hun. Gentleman now to be told,' for the first time, that he,Central Alma was not. eatablished inJdly, nor until near October ? There Were two JUtita i that of Gallicia, and that of Sc. The 1-Ton. Gentleman's fallacious infotmation b 51.16 this, that rejeaing any intercourse with t ide 6.'allician Junta / would have consulted ► that .of Seville, though; et a much . greater dis 7 lance . ) , of only equal authority,. and ~placed in it, situation Whence, if an Expedition !tad gone ;hither, it cold not easily 'have returned. if time - Honourable Gentleman thought that fhe Sevillian juuta %4;as, superior tot hat Of Gallicia,he was deceived;' tbate was no preponderance emir the elt'liou Ott :the ; Supreme junta, which tuck 'place in the lastwiaet ofSeptember. But' tile Hon, Gentlemen was valn. able in his mistakes; they involved, the principle k• (.11 which his MajestY%; Ministers had acted. The' first principle Was this: when thy Whole of the Spa.; 11,1) nation rose simufeineously,, and with a concert appeared almost mutt aulous, 'the consequence W;is.th e ete:3ion of,various local authotilies;: titilt,nOWledging no head; je:douS, watchful,'und ex ki t only saspieleini ()I r ony attempt ctta. the. part of :'obtain an aseeedency, over the re s t...-.; first pet - swig, apvtication made to the Qoecrik. ment of this country was from Asturias, the second from Gallicia ' the third from Seville. From the various oilier Juntas letters only were received. Here was the difficulty. His Majesty's Ministers could not say, we will not furnish you with assistance until you are united, because that would have been put ting on British assistance-a price that the Spaniards were not disposed tp pay. Besides, before that union could be effeeed,.without British assistance the advance of the enemy would have -destroyed all hope of it. It would not have been wise or justi... fiable to give exclusive confidence to any one of these bodies. On the other hand, each was de , siroot of drawing to itself the largest portion of our aid, and the physical means of the country were not sufficient to afford the sniipiy that would' thus have been demanded front .it. Every disposition had .been shewu to furnish all the juntas with money, with arms, and every means of military support but it was not deemed advisable to send out an armed • force in aid of the separate efforts of the respetlive • Juntas. The .policy was obvious of not hazarding a British army in Spain until the force of the country should -have been called forth and organized in such a manner as to cooperate H ith it, became there could be no other chance for the security of such an army from the danger of being oser-• whelmed by the superior. •numbers and strength of the enemy. It was from this source •that all the mis representations had arisen, which had constantly ap peared in the public Prints, from which the Right Honourable Gentleman had taken all his argu ments upon the subjeerof the-demand of Cavalry by Spain. Unquestionably the Juntas of Gallicia and Asfiirias had applied for reinforcethents of Bri fish cavalry ; but the answer that had beett reunited was, that a British army would be sent to their sUp port, but that it was intended that it Arnold ad in mass, .and under a British COnithander, It was not thought advisable to send a small detached tie cc. of cavalry, to eke out the army of Blake, or of Criesta, but to send to them that which " not enriched. them, and might make us poor indeed." An army was to be sent to their assistance. when they . should have opened a theatre for it to 0. in. Was it any thing disheartening or discouraginer to the Spaniards, to tell them, that when they should have called 'forth ' their. own forces,. or established some general 'system of 'government, they., - should have the . support of • A British army ? From this circumstance 'also had arisen the various this-statements respecting the. delay of the advance of the British army from Por tugal, as if that had arisen' out of the circum stances of the Convention. The fact was, however, that. the Supreme Central Junta had not been stalled till the last week in September, and as soon ,as intelligence bad been received of that event in this Country, the• Expedition under Sir David Baird had been ordered to sail, and a communication made thereof to the Junta of Gallicia, and the Supreme Junta, • requesting do order for permitting the troops to land in Gallicia. -This communication had been ( made in the week in which the change of Govern ment had taken place, anti to that circumstance was owing the Inlay of ten and in the transmission of , the order, Which • had been made the ground of so much accusation here. - But if Government had wait ed fill the answer e to This communicetion, and a foul wind which woold be favourable for its arrival, bet unfavourablii to the sailing of the F l apedition, should :in the mean time spring up to delay the progrefot of , the Expedition, then indeed would there have heen serious ground of charge against his Majesty's Go vernment. 'What animated declamation, or rather what 'an imatedlnotations, would not the Right Hen, Gentleman have produced to the House, if tlte. Newspapers bad taken up, as they certainly would 'have taken up, the discussion. It Was then untie .oessary. for Novi° go into a greater length of de , tail, as the question' would again come under the consideration of the House ; .but he could not •ovoid .touching woe these points, in addition to 'what had •fallee. from his Noble Friend, and in order to skew that • every change of wind liad .not 'produced a change of councils, and t het if the cause should unfortunately not terminate as all 'good inert wished, it was not the fault of England. The cause Wait in :that hand in which rested the.stecision of every thing in the progress of human lanai* and however it may plettse Providence to dispose of it in the end, it was desirable to know that no human means had been omitted to -promote a prosperous issue. The Right Honourable Gentleman had said, •that in affording assistance to the' Spaniard.i, we should hove. met Buoriaparte upon his owls terms, but he .could not agree in that opinion, be cause he could not think it right to, rule the country, we should go to assist as a dictator.-- Though we were blessed with a Constitution justly dear to us from the inestimable rights it conferred uponus,• we were not therefore'to hold cheap the ;institutions of other nations, because they had not yet ripened into that maturity of franchise and free dom which we enjoyed,•ncither should we convert an auxiliary army into a domineering ,garrison, nor, whilst openly professing to assist the Spaniards, co- Tveriiy to endeavour to impose upon them those bles sings of which they . :triust themselves' be the best pdges..shi the last Session they had all appeared to be agreed, that, in any event, Indeed, in the case of the success (if Spain, it was not of any'consequence, they should snake it iinpOSSible to be supposed that the assistance of this country was given with any sioister view. He' . had no doubt, if they should succeed, that the Spaniards would certainly happier, and he_ trusted freer. than they had hitherto • been ; be; that' happiness and freedom should be of their own choice, and .not of, our dialation. By 'a Proclamation. issued by the Supreme Junta, on the day jitter their installation, • calling upon ell literary men to contribute • their as s istance 'with* Tespect to the • beit laws to be enacted for the .benefit of the . State, it appeared 'that the 'Central ,. Junta. was not indifferent to the amelioration of their Constitution. .Bot, if the ; suggestion of thesepod laws was. to accompany, or be corn- - plied with,. a subsidy, be doubted much who .ther it would meet, with consent, but sure the S po ilt i t: t i - ar a d i s iio co b u a l y d oi n le o t t , u4t tcs ikiee ' l i a le w:d a i:t i at t e h d at at tinestitm respcittug the military principle, whether me, Eaud.ing ought IQ ittive been made in' Spain or Portugal k s he, should only , say, that it amounted to 11n4, whether, as the Central Junta had nut / been established till September, it was prudent or politic to wait lifts July aid September before the exlieut • lion should have-been sent 'though .his tapinion could tic n.Q, a,.tatbority ti eon the subjco, Ins (:vovic- Lion was upon the pure mili'ary - consideration of the case, that the course adoptc..? was most expedient.--- , If he hoked to Portugal, and considered that coun try and Spain as one - and the same, he would be convinced that the Tagus and not Saint "Ander*. was the point to which the British army should have been sent ' others May be more bold and en terprising in their plans, as well as have the ability to carry them into execution ; and if the Right Hon. Gentleman should look to the authorities from which he had drawn his arguments, he would find a very bold plan of operations bad been lately auggeo ed, no less that) to hand a British force, • nor at Bilboa, and to march direely to besiege Pam. peluna. If the Right Hon. Gentleman should ap prove of 'this plan he was sure be would nat have any other support, tor their opinion . this Country, than the file of the Newspaper in which it appeared. Another fault in the. conduet of his Majestyrs Government ,towards Spain had been pointed out by the Honnurohle , Gentleman who. spoke last, and who considered the Treaty with Spain as unnecessary and super.. fitious,• though the Right Hon. Gentleman, wins . spwke earlier in the Debate, had.stated that .erlfte• merits were as binding as treaties.. With the Wet . •opinion he was more inclined to agree. But it woilt be recelleaed, that in the last Session the whole House was agreed, that every effort should be made in support of Spain, and every necessary engage ment entered into for that purpose. The Right Honourable Gentleman had expressed an interest ill the *state of another country, Turkey, upon which, unfortunately, he bad no opportunity of comrnuni• stating any information., He could only say, that in April last .an overture was received froth the:'-' , Turkish Government, inviting us to a s renewal of the ": negociation, upon which instruetions had been atilt -; • out to a diplomatic Gentleman, Mr. Adair, then in the IVlediterranean, to proceed to Constantinople,----: , The instrudions crossed hint on his rettitiv, but be was immediately dispatched from this country. The Km'. Secretary then. congratulated the House upon the temper with which the campaign in that House had commenced, and concluded by observing, . that-if it should be continued in the same spirit, it would be most,conducive to the progress of public business and national interests. f Mr. Tr atINEY contended, that. the measures of . Ministers had been inadequate, and that the . re- sources of the country had been squandered, without any advantage to ourselves, or those nations which we have bean conneaed with. He elan' cautioned Ministers against chewing too haughty- a mien to- ,• wards America, and reminded them of the elleaa that arose from the same kind of condu6 before the: commencement of the last American war. '• Mr. GRORGB Hama Rosa said, that during thit time he was in America, he had, never heard it ul. !edged that the Orders in Council were the cause that induced- that Government to lay on the Embargo. On the cdntrary, the first intimation he had receiv.. ed to that Kea was on his arrival in this country. Some other Gentle Men said.a few words in expla nation, when the motion for the Address was pot 'and agreed to, and a Committee appointed 4) prepay . and report the same. NOTICES. , The CIiktICiLLOR of the Es.cuactuatt gave, notice that he would . to-morrow movo for the re-appoint* moot of Abe Cognmittee of Finance. • Lord CASTLltitaAcia gave notice that he would en Monday move, that the Thanks, of the House be given .to the Olicers and Troops who achie v ed the victory of Vimiera. Adjourned at Half-past Eleven o'clock. • !. THE SEJ N. iOIIM QUZS Dicsait 1111.11Ukt 41111,01 A., L 0 NI) 0 N, FRIDAY, JANUARY I$J9. Our Letter from DoVer, this morning, states, fittest very heavy tiring was kept up . on . the french Coa yeserdays, for a considerable time, but the WO was unknown, a number of our Cruizers were,/ lying off Boulogne, probably it proceeded from thedu the weather being thiCk, at tended: with snow, nothing could be seen from Dover. Our Plymouth letter states (that the French Lugger Privateer Hope, arrived there on Wednes day ; she was out to days from St. Vallery, captured on the 1 eth inst. ()nape Barileur, by tits Sparrow• hawk Sloop of war, atter a lotig chase., \Va last night received Date 4 Papers to the ItLas inst. but' they are uncommonly barren of intclli". gence: they contain no news tram Spain, except an article from Bayonne, dated Decembef 28, states, that all the troops in. that-heighbouthood received orders to march into tions a report that the Sp an ia r d s had been 'delbate 4 in the Sierra Morena, a n d . t h a t the 14'retich . boa' .taken Cordova. These Papers.centain s ome tOrther: details respecting the i nsurre eticat at COmitinititi6PleP' but it seems still a ma tter o f d ou b t w h et h e r Vos' TAP,I4A B CTAR life upoti t AIRA lost his It 'oli - cinieao hat Onetislogs or not. There lets been an insurrealop at Algiers, in which the .Dey ACHMLT was put to.cleati?! and ALI li:ou.stA' was chosen to succeed Burt. ktate' in an article from Elsineur, that the DEN' had ordered preparations .to be made fia,,the de fence of his c a pit a l, b e i ng appreheniive 044. ttjo Winter should prove very severe, the Russitioi, i ) lg . ") attempt an expedition across the GOlpit ,01.144.11f1u'' •- • • Our Readers will ' "" percetve, 'ilt"pero4l ° the. Proceedings in both .Houses.of Parliament) Y terday, thar- the Opposition did • not .think it .exPe" diem to propose an Amendment to,the-AddreSs, of to try their strength-in a diviNion. A Vessel has arrived at Falmouth, from Cadiz, which she lett on' the 17th. :The Captain states that it was reported there that a 'Battle had taken place before. barcelotta, b'etweeo the French awl $1) 3 " Liiiird s , in which the letter were deleatevL: LotinoN : Fkrinte,l by It. flatiti t, (of Ittaitlett-court h s tuw-Aft . et), ar o ' plablr ol icti by W ...A. SCRIPPS (Qi 5Q1414. vultu4.4trcet 4i kt,te irk 4t.r4)14