The Sun. — London, England, 1826-04-21 00:00:00

that the Government should know the aliens who really were in the sountry.,. 4 „ After alevi ,. words' from Mr. DENMAN . , leave was given to bring in the Bill. - • • , BERBICE.—SLAVERY. •-Mr. W.• . r.SMlTE•rese for the purpose of submitting a motion, of which he had given notice, relative to the treatment of the slaves in Berbices--fittibjedt moat interesting of all others to humanity. The • masters and imanagers.of the unfortunate slaves seemed to regard them as mere chattel property. They seemed to , ..consider them just in the tiame beam any Other animals in which their property wast-yested,-'althongh .he 'conceived they had no right whatever ao to contemplate them ; but tale it was, that from•this most inhu man, and, as it appeared to him, most unjust view of the subject, one half of the ills to which the wretched slaves were subjected, might be said to proceed. He had many documents from which lilt might addueeextracts which would astonish the House ; but this he would not ; ; .althol there was one document 'to which be would direct - their attentioo—namely, the devote]." of Governor Epden, in which the House would 'find ample - Materials for consi deration. It appeared that on one of the recent trials, to so great a kogth had the feeling proceeded to which he had just vetted, that the,Attorney-General was Compelled to deelar he was shocked at the'butguage which had been used, namely, " that it was no more harm to kill a negro than a dog.".---(flear, bear °— Wt. it not obvious that this bahnman language proceeded from that timpialified idea of property on which he had just expressed his opinion ? Had it not been for the monstrous feelings which the 'system hail Mirsetl, such language would never have been uttered., - The • Honourable Meinbee next adverted to the Court of Policy, which, he said, had no more power to make • laws for the regulation of their own slaves, - than for a neighbouring island. if the Court of Policy were, of their own authority, to pass a law for the amelioration of the condition of. the slaves it would be competent for any contumacious slave to refuse his obedience ; and there would be no mode to compel submission, but by resorting to the Authorities in this country. Hence it was, that it was only now, at the end of three years, that we were beginning to reap the advantages of the orders which were sent out, lie believed, in May or June, .1823, and which nothing in the world but the refractoriness of the Colonies could have prevented their carrying into effect two years and a half ago.—( Hear, hear !)—With respect to the insurrection at Deme rara, that subject had called forth discussions in that House which would not soon be forgotten. The trial of one most cruelly in jured—he had almost said, murdered—individual, remained deeply impresned on the minds of thousands. In the year 1789, an insurrection broke out at Demerara ; he would not shock the ears of his hearers by recording, the details of the sufferings, of the unfortunate Negroes, as described by. Mr. B. Edwards, and other historians of the West Indies. He would not go into the history of the execution of those times, which would snake the blood of Europeans run cold, and that of Negroes boil. But in adverting to • those transactions, there was one important lesson to he drawn from them ; namely, that the Missionaries had so far in uced the minds - ften of the unhappy Negroes as to make tI•on avoid their former cruelties, their attacks and murders of the whites, the burning of their houses, and the destruction of their plaittations. At the period to which be had alluded, there were no Missionaries amorist them, and in consequence, the most dread ful cruelties were. perpetrated. During the last insurrection they but Missionaries, and by their means all the former cruelties were prevented—not a single white's life was lost. The ill-treatment' which the slaves experienced was amongst the principal of the pre disposing causes to their conduct. From some passages in the Journal of kept by Mr. Smith, it appeared that there were other circumstances much more likely to produce insurrection and- trea son than the acts, or conduct, or influence of - the Missionarics..-.- In looking over the complaints preferred by the unfortunate Ne groes, he found but one matonce in which a master was punished for cruelty; indeed for an effence, somewhat more tangible than mere cruelty—it was for - not supplying sufficient or adequate food; but to make up for this deficienty, there were ample instances in • which the poor alms had been unjustly punished. There was one . case so strikingly remarkable, that he cloultl not • forbear stating it to the house. Felix, a negro,. complained that the manager of the estate on which he lived wanted to seduce from him his wife, al though the manager had a wife of his own. The manager ivas always striving to takeaway the negroes' wives, particularly the wile of Felix. The manager had a child by the woman, and ever since that he was alWays punishing Felix and his wife on the pro- tenets that they did not do their work. Felix was brought befOre the Fiscal, and, was eentenced to be punished; and mark the result. The Manager was severely repritnunded t for hnving taken impro per liberties with the female slaves, and was recommended to Dr. Brewer .as - a tit subjed for diamissal... But although he was Ilia missed for a short time, it appeared that he was afterwards em ployed. In another ease, where an individual had beets guilty of several barbarities in his conduct towards the slaves under his martial, the sentence upon prosecution and conviction, was only' three.. months' imprisonment, and a fine of twenty-five pountk To ba sure, there was in that case, too, a recommendation to- distills, 'him► from exercising any further .controul over the slave popula- ; ,bnt, no in the caw; with Dr. Brewer, to which he-hzi-41 lulled, the moment the, time of imprisonment expired, he was again employed as before. It was a rule of philosophy, which had his full concurrence, that when there was sufficient for the support of a cause, it would he an unnecessary waste of labour to go further. That he had stated enough in proof of the veld.. tions he had advanced, he was fully satisfied, and he would now revert to what was more immediately. connected with his pre sent motion. his Majesty's Government have intimated it to he their intention, • it' they have not already carries! such inten tion into execution, of alyointing .a Protector or Protectors of slaves in the Colonies. Now, although heSipproved must heartily of the principle of such a theasure„yet he Would contend, that un kis they carried that principle murh further, and absolutely pro hibited all such . inspectors from being in any way connected with the employment or employers of shaves, they would do little or within by such appointments towards those objects which he be lieved his Majesty's Government to be as sincerely interested in as the Abolitionists themselves. lie had proofs in abundance, if they were necessary, that in the Colony of Demerara, of which he was about to speak, particularly nine out of ten of the persons appointed to guard against abuses in former times, were themselves . the most interested in their continuance. The burgher Captains, the persons who decided the disputes between slaves and freemen, were theinielves the owners of slaves . ;' and the . friends, .compa , aim, and connexions, of the whites. Upon what principle of reason Or common ! ipmce i then, could it be supposed, that they would decide impartially in those wises which were brought before them? The very idea of such authority being a protection to the :Jaye, we an 'absurdity. Mr. Henry, who had published some curious statements with regard to the . Island of Berbice, repre sents the criminal and civil law of that Colony, and of all those Islands which once belonged to the Dutch, as being a Matter of extreme nicety,--the code of laws left by that nation to their no was like their own, chiefly founda on the old Boman law ; 'and Mr. Henry observes, that both in its method of taking . examinations, and in the whole of its proceedings, it involves great lei al niceties and subtletim; and that it. was both difficult to ac quire,and...very little understood by those who were called upon to decide according to its dictates, and that. the Burgher Cap tains in particular knew little 'or nothing about it. Ile did not mean to censure any men, or body of ;nen. It could not, per haps, be expected, front their situation in life, that these persons should be profoundly versed in legal technicalities; hut it was, 11 , 3 thought, obvious, that if they were totally unfit to administer justice among the whites, they were not fit to be instructed with the protection of the blacks ; and when it was recollected, as he observed before, that they were in every instance the friends, companion:4, , and even relations of those who might be 'supposed the aggressors, it could not be expected that the slaves would derive much benefit from their interference. Now it was pro.. posed, he understood, to send out only one principal InSpector, who was to be in every instance a man as impartial and as free from alt local prejudices as huthan nature wauld admit ; but be distinctly laid it down as beyond contradiction, that unless the minor inspectors were equally impartial,' and equally free. from the operation of local interesta, there could be no protection to the slave. It was impossible for any MU, however endowed with bodily or mental energy, to he present in every place where persecution and cruelty might be practised ; and. unless they made the subordinate impeder" as free from interest at the principal, the whole end of their labours would he defeated. They declared, itcthis country, by their adions, and: by their expressions, that atISI)4I, Catlinlies were incapable, by their religious tenets, of un sltwstauding or practising the relations enjoined .1w civil society; but it was something strange, that in every colony which h a d b ee n sobject to Itoma.n Catholics, the laws were more faVoureble to the of effects infinitely more beneficial t o their Slaves, and productive interests, than in those belonging peculiarly to those Who were styled the liberal Protestants. In Demerara, it was one of the great objections to the missionary Smith, that he had gone about asking questions with regard to the condition of the Slaves, Mr th e purpose', Let was alleged, of ingratiating hituself into their favour ; but his astonishment may be conceived,.wbeuhe found that what was objected to the Missionary Smith, by p eo t e „,t im t, and rcntowed in such unmeasured terms, was one Of those things en joined and commanded by Roman Catholics. In the Spanish Col on i e s, the Roinan Catholic Priests ware conunanded to go about *MI visit, and comfort, and inquire into the wants and complaints of the Negree. Was it not . astonishing that those who had first imported the Africans and worked up the Aborigines, should have left thein'the Model Alpert which they had since framed their reso lutious ? The Orders in Council sent to Trinidad were M part, if ' not wholly, founded on the old Spanish laws ; and waa.it not dis graceful in the highest degree, as Protestants, that they should thus adopt so tardily the measures left them by Roman Catholics ; and that, adopting them, they had tint more speedily carried them into. execution, 'to , their full extent ? It was certainly said that the negroes were not in a tit state to be emancipated. This he believed most truly, and sorry, very sorry, should he he to see any order prontulgated for their immediate freedom ; but if they were not fit for the enjoyment of freedom, to whom was that to be attributed but to the masters ? 'They had brutalized these unhappy beings, and deprived them of the capacity ,to appreciate the advantages which might be - conferred upon them. They had left them in that state which would make it dangerous to entrust them with liberty. Bryan Edwards, whom he loved to quote upon the subject—for he desired no more concessions than were to be found in his book in that time, for there had been no improvement since—,saye, that 1 " from the example set the blacks by the white proprietors, it was not to be wondere4 that they woro,what they , were found to he." How, indeed, could it be otherwise,when nothing was ever attempt ed by the slave proprietors in the way of education or religious instruction? Except a law, passed ages ago, he believed in 1669, for building churches and educating slaves in the Island of Jamaica, and which law wits almost a dead letter, nothing had beeen done to make the slave acquainted with his moral or religious duties. . . There was an old story told of the King of Prussia, a martinet in his way, but a great pretender to philo sophy, that when a soldier ' was brought before him for some offence committed against good order, he asked if the man was a good soldier ; and upon being laid that he was a very good one, he replied, " Then what have I to do with his nm rids?' So it was with the slave-owners;, provided a negro worked well, they did not consider they had any thing to do with his moral or social duties.. It was, therefore, very true, that the negroes were not fit for deliverance from thraldom ; but what could be said of those who had for forty years—from the first time when his valued friend, Mr. Wilberforce, sounded that note, which had been,repeated Still fonder by Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox afterwards—what could be said to those who had neglected every opportunity of providing for that crisis, which they saw must come, and shuffled off every recommendation which was offered them as . a provision against the danger? Indeed, of all the charges he had to make against the Colonists, none was so heavy, in his opinion, as their neglecting so wantonly those signs of the times, which were so distinctly apparent, and which not only reminded them of their duty, but also point ed out. the path to its performance, and the consequence of their neglect. Speaking,. however, of those duties Which, as men and as Christians, they were bound to fulfil, what terms were strong enough to express their sense of such gross neglect and in difference ? IT slavery was only a civil crime, a tnalum prohibi turn, the slave-owner might have considered he did all that was required, when he evaded the commission of a felony or a piracy, and virtually 'obeyed the injunction of the Legislature ; but he knew, that when he took upon himself the right to the labour of the slave, he also took upon himself duties of a higher and more sacred character, than any which were either enjoyed or claimed by the laws of his country; he knew that he took upon himself duties which existed before the 30th of Geo. 111. was ever contemplated; and though the penalty of the omission of one kind of duty may depend on the statute, he knew that an attention to the other was more iniperiously, though perhaps more silently, demanded from every, man who 'intended to he worthy of an admission within the pale 'of civilization, or to have made himself ac quainted with the precepts contained in the Book of the Chris tian Word. There was only one point now to which he would advert; but he thought it came so home to the question of the humanity of the Sieve Trade, and was so highly deserving of their serious consideration, that he could not avoid troubling them with a feW observations upon it. It had very recently come to his knowledge, that the cultivation of sugar was more injurious to human life than any other of the West India prodUctions. The assertion had been made before, but he was now possessed of a proof upon the point, which must be considered conclusive. A C'ommission had been sent out from St. Christopher's to inquire 'into the state of the Island of Anguilla, and the reporter states in these terms the result of his investigation ;—" The ground is poor —the slaves have no cattle—they acknowledge no government— criMes are left Without punishment. They have no sense of mo rals to act as a restraint upon their actions—the slaves are few, and totally destitute of clothing. :They have no food; and, to sum up all, it is impossible to conceive a system more ruinous to the master, or more degrading to the slave." But let the House bear in mind this picture of misery, said consider how it was to be com pared with the state of those in snore favoured soils. In the four great sugar islands there was a decrease of human life, varying, according to the production of sugar, from S cwt. per man down to 2*. In these Colonieisand they were the richest in soil— when about '7 or 8 cwt. of sugar per man was produced, the de crease of the number of slaves averaged from 2 to 3 per cent. — In Colonies where the production was 3,4, or 5 cwt. per man, the number of slaves remained nearly the same ; but in Barbadoes, and some other islands, where the quantity of sugar produced was smaller, there was a entail annual increase. But the great and con clusive confirmation to this theory was to be found in Anguilla ; where the slaves, living on a poor soil, with ou t c l o thi ng , f oo d, , morass, or governmsnt, are—as the Reporter states—vigorous, healthy, and increasing rapidly ; and yet they produce only 2 cwt. of sugar each. Was not dila an establishMent, beyond all question, of the truth of the principle, that the Cultivation of sugar was per nicious to human life? The Hon. Gentleman concluded by ob serving, that he did not 'mean what he had stated as a reflec tion upon any body of melt ; he merely pointed . out these fads as proofs of the evils of the system under which the negroes suf feredevils which, he trusted, would not new long remain with mit reinedy. He would . not trespass further upon the attention with which 'they had so kindly favoured him, but conclude by reading the Resolution he had to propose, and which, he believed, would be found to contain recommendations of the utmost im portance to the success of those measures which Parliament had had pledged itself to carry into execution:— " Resolved, That from the official documents laid before this House, and : other authentic information respecting the Colo nies of Demerara and Berbiee; it appears that although protec tion has been affected to be afforded to the slave population in those countries, either by the Fiscal or Chief Judge, in the ca pacity of Protector of Slaves, or by some other person acting in that , character, yet that the slaves have been, and still re main, expOsed to numerous vexations and grievous oppressions, demanding effectual relief; and that this House has, therefore, had great satisfaction in observing the declared determination of his Majesty's Ministers, to promulgate in those Colonies an Order of Council on this important subject, to which unqualified obe 'Renee Will be required. But that, from all reasoning and expe rience, this Hinise is led to conclude, that no legal enactments, however well devised and strongly framed, can prove sufficient for the effeetual protection of the slave, unless the officers, both principal and subordinate, to, whom the execution of the law is to be entrusted, Wadi he appointed and supported by the Government at home, and absolutely prohibited from possessing or employing slaves in any capacity, eithsr priedial or doniestic." The Hon. Member, after having read the Resolution, observed that the language on the subject ofuncputlified obedience, was pre cisely the seine at that used by Lord Bathurat when the two co lonies 'bet been in vain urged to adopt those Orders in Council which had been transmitted with the approbation of the House. He did not Asan the Resolution in censure of the conduct of Go vernment; but, unless they adopted them, it was vain to expect any good from the appointment of inspectors. - Mr. W. HORTON maid, that a great portion of the speech of the I hal. Gentlemen Was so little in keeping with the Resolution be bad ended !iv proposing, that he felt himself very much at loss to know to which he was to addreas his observations, the speech or resolution. He would first, however, object to that part of his speech in which he alludes to abuses existing in De merara, and where he declares that those abuses anima be re- MAW without the adoption of the Resolution. At this very mo meta, the Orders Of Council, which had been carried into execution iu Trinidad, were in full operation in Demerara, and would be, or perhaps were, at that moment, introduced into Berbice;. and he thought it would be but fair to wait the effect of those Orders, before they expressed any censure of the course which lied been pursued. It would be, indeed, in his opinion, more fitting to ruse how the remedies which had been applied Were operating, and how they could assist that operation, than to look back to what had not heel done, and censure unavoidable omission'. With reference to the Inspector, he could say that en individual had been selected to fill that office, of the strictest integrity, of known experience, of unquestionable impartiality ; he defied, indeed, any man, on either side of the House, to point out a person better qualified to fill that situation, or More likely to carry into the strictest exe cution the do sires of the Government, or the wishes of the friend's of Abolition. The instructions which were given to the Inspec tors, were such as inculcated a mild treatment to the slaves ; but, at the same tittle that that mild treatment was inculcated on the Ill.,Wctot's it was also recommended that no impctlitnent should be thrown in the way of the existing regulations for the treatment of the slave population. The prescribed rules were enjoined to atrketiy *been-ad, with a due attention to the just coMplaints of a c l o te; ),, ti i g n a ts in w st b t il e i i f r ro o t.a wn t e h r t % twoittililutmetigtetritavinnitiolget,hose frivolous Altogether, the instructions were of the most lenient eharaeter, and such as Wo tend wdte agreed that i tild u u i t n, ameliorat ion of the slave popidation, which,all i benefit of the sl aves themselves should o w urd mostado:i'xltedwdin f .The instr the uct ions a which had been sent out were carried into execution in Demerara, and were on the eve of being carried into execution in ilerbice. He (Mr. W. II.) would not follow the Hono ura bl e G en tl ema n over • whole range of detail of abuses into which he hattgotle., ; It ivas far better to look forward to a period of future improvement than to one of past exasperation; and the interests of the slaves, and of general society, in which their interests were involved, required that they should not dwell too anxiously on those ex asperating topics, which were too frequently adverted to, and introduced into discussion. The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. W. Smith) had said that it was desirable that the principal officers in authority, and that even those in subordinate situa tions, should not possess property in slaves. Ile was ready to admit the propriety of the principle, as fur as related to the principal officers, and thought it was right that the Governors, the Chief Justices, Attorney-Generale, and other principal Offi cial functionaries, should not have such a right of property. But the same observation he by no means thought applied with equal force to those engaged in the subordinate machinery of Govern ment. In their regard, the opposite principle should prevail; and instead of their possession of such property being an injury or greater degradation to the slave, he thought many advan tages were derived to him from his being the property of per sons of some consideration and influence with Government. As to what had been said with respect to the right of property in the slaves, he (Mr. H.) would be always regulated by the Resolutions of that House; and when he saw, in the Resolutions of May 1823, that " an equitable consideration should be paid to the rights of property," he was of opinion that that consideration should be attended to, whoever were the persons in whom such property was invested. There was one subject on which he was unwilling to dwell, both as' it was one which involVed some delicate and difficult considerations, and because it had been the subject of specific reference and discussion before in that House —he alluded to the insurrection at Demerara. It was said by one class of the advocates of the emancipation of the slaves, that they were naturally actuated by a desire of oh- , telling the freedom which obtained in this country. It was Said he remembered, at the time, that the insurrection of Dome rare did not proceed from any such general movement as the at tainment of such freedom, and that it arose solely from local grievances. He could not exactly see how these two points could b e reconciled—how they were likely to be instigated to insurrec tion from a love of freedom ; yet that, when insurrection arose, it was not at all to be attributed to an anxiety-to obtain that free dom. From the dispatch of Sir B. D'Urban it appeared that the slaves were actuated by a desire and a hope of obtaining those rights to which, from some representations, they thought they were entitled. He writes thus upon the subject " I can have no doubt that the opinion I expressed to your Lordship on the 6th was well founded, and that many of the slaves had still continued under the delusion which I then described ; in deed several of them avowed it, and evidently took leave of the hopes they had so long cherished, with strong feelings of sorrow. Their eyes, however, are opened now; and they will no longer have that strong excitement to revolt, which arose from the belief that they were contending for rights (and by that belief they were unquestionably actuated in the late revolt) which they supposed had been granted them in the Mother Country, but suppressed by the Colonial authorities. At the same time that they have been now made aware that freedom, in the manner they had anticipated, is out of the question, they have also learned that many r eal wlvantages are preparing for them, i f they deserve them by qUiet and subordinate behaviour, and I have assured thorn that as on the one hand the severe punishment of any disorder among them will be certain, so on the other, if any individual shall at any time think himself oppressed or ill-treated, I shall always be ready to receive his complaint per sonally, and redress it if it be well founded." From this dispatch it appeared, that a better disposition pre vailed amongst the live population, and he should . be sorry that any thing should occur to interrupt its prog-ress. - The avoidance of such interference; and such exasperation, was necessar:„ in order to give effect to the plans of amelioration which the Go vernment had intended--;-(lkar, hear, hear!)--.As to What the Honourable Gentleman had said respecting Anguilla and the culti vation of sugar, he did not think that any:unfavourable itiference should be drawn against the Proprietors of West: India pro perty, from the circumstance of the cultivation of sugar. being attended with more. extensive mortality. Tha same argument migth apply in this country, where the collierieS were sverkul.-... 111ortality was much more general and extensive in the mitwries from fire-damp—from the greater labour undergone there, and from various other circumstances, than perhaps in. any other occu- - pation. This was owing to the unhealthy description of the labour, and which, in some employments, was greater than in others ; but it was a consideration altogether distinct from, and unconnect: ed with, the .maltreatment of the slaves.,(Hear l)—lndeed, as to the charge of maltreatment, front the varieus,reports, reports which hehad no reason to doubt, the statements which were neale of the cruelty and hardships of the slaves were greatly exaggerate , ;. And he would take this opportunity of animadverting upon those efforts that were made to work upon the feelings of the country, by inducing them to believe that the condition of the Slaves was more intolerable than it really was. Government were disposed to . do'the utmost to ameliorate the condition of the slaves—they were must desirous for the efficient discharge ,of this 'duty; and it was more injurious than serviceable tti the cause which they professed to support,' for Gentlemen to work upon the feelings of the people, and induce the . country to go beyond, the vernment in their plans of progressive amelioration,--(Hear, hear 0,--The Resolutions which had already passed the House, pledged the Government and the Parliament to, certain mea sures-.-these measures had already taken.place Mime Colonies, and Demerara sad Berbiee ,were on the eve of. reaping an the advantages of them. That the property of slaves should not be vested in the high functionaries in the Colonies he had already conceded ; but that the 'subordinate officers should be trusted with the posse4sion of attek property, from the instance that-had been afforded, as an example, be was not disposed to condemn it. Under these circumstances, and under the progressive imerovennent of the slave population, he felt himself called upon and justified in mov ing the previous question. _ •itlr. It. ELLIS expressed his approbation of the plans of ame liorating the condition of the slave population. . He wished, how ever, to observe, that although the proprietors of West India pro perty might not be - entitled to compensation from the Government pursuing plans of general amelioration, if those plans should inter fere with - their interests, yet, if the slaves were to be' emancipated, or if, by any sudden measure, the proprietors were to be deprived of their property in their slavN, that then their claims to remune ration were undeniably just.—(Hear, hear would ~ be but right, he thought, in whatever changes that might be introduced,to convey to those whose interests might, be most affected by them, an assurance that their interests would be duly attended to. He had taken some pains to make.. an . atudysi3 of the cases which had been contained in the Report from Berbice ; and fawn that Report there was nothing to warrant the strong imputation which had been thrown out, as to the manner in WhiCh cases were disposed of in that island. Taking, a s a period of reference, the space of thirteen, months, which comprised 43 cases ; of these cases, 27, which was in the proportion. of three to five, were judged to be totally unfounded; and with regard to the remain ing sixteen, in eight of them, both parties were found to : be wrong ; and in the other, eight only were of either party found to be right. The Hon. Gentleman - entered into a detail of the cases which had been entertained, and concluded by expressing a wish that the Governors of Colonies .should. no longer . be ar loWed to preside In the Courts of Chancery, as they were gene rally military men, and persons unacquainted with the profession of the law. He truged also that the appointments to judicial and other legal offices in the Colonies, would be hereafter filled by persons of profAisiottal character ..and experience; and that the planters might be relieved from the duties, in the performsoce of which - they were viewed • with jealousy and distrust by persons at borne. Mr. RICHARD MARTIN said, that he hoped the Honour able Member would withdraw his motion, for if it were tote car ried in the affirmative, it could produce no good result; and if it were to be 104 in a division, it would create infinite mischief Mr. DENAi AN could ut,lt conceive that the carrying of the present motion could lead the Colonial Legislatures to think that they were in a better condition to resist the English Government in their .measures to abolish slavery. If it were right that an effectual reformation should be matured by the Government of this country and the Parliament, the only question was, in what terms it could be best done, and what lan guage could make it loe felt by the Colonists that the Parlia ment and Government of England would not be trifled with on the subject ; but that they were determined to see that the re formation should be complete, effectual, and speedy. The pam-' plilet alluded to in the debate was as much entitled to confidence as any document ever laid before the public. The resolution did not contradict the proposition that all the evils complained of originated in the principle of one human being possessing his fellow -creatures as a dimposeable property. The wishes and fltatexuent4 of those with whom he agreed upon this subject, were constantly met by the Gentlemen opposite, by a denial of facts; and no sooner were these statements proved to be true, than they were declared not to hear upon the subject. AU the crimes proved in the management and treatment of - slaves were declared to be of old date; so that his Hon. Friend (Mr. Smith) very justly observed, that the pre sent tense of the verb seemed to have no place in the. West In dian's grammar. It appeared to him that the Hon. Secretary op posite wished also to strike out the future tense, and to defeat all inquiry, Confining the House to points already forgotten.. Did no abuser still exist ? Was it nothing that n slave should be seen looking through the bars of a prison, being seized like cattle or furniture, because his master bad not paid his taxes ? Did not such occurrences appear often in the Colonial newspapers.—(Hear, hear !)—These were evils of a most serious nature, and they un avoidably arose out of the very principles of slavery. The cruelty of branding slaves had not been suppressed by any particular law. Mr. ELLIS stated, across the table, that it was abolished by the general law against cruelty. ' Mr. DENMAN thought there could he no possible objection to the present motion, for all that it required was, that the owners of slaves should not be allowed to fill those offices which were men tioned in it. He was surprised that such a motion should in any manner be considered as an attack upon Government. Mr. W. HORTON said, his objections seemed to be misunder stood. He objected to the Resolution as unnecessary, because all that was recommended by it had already been carried into effect. Mr. DENMAN certainly had not the means of questioning the Right Hon. Gentleman's statement ; but if that Was the fact, all be could say was, that he was not alone in his error. Mr. ROSE ELLIS explained. With respect to branding, there had been an instance in which a conviction for that offence was followed by punishment. Mr.. DENMAN explained. He was not aware that that had been the case. There certainly had been one conviction, but that was where the 'inadmissibility of Black evidence was supplied through the accidental observation of a White man. • Mr. W. HORTON repeated his former objection. Mr, BARING said, the simple questionlefore the House was, whether the Executive Government was the proper department for the management of the Colonies ? He thought it might be observed with great propriety, that while, on the one side, it was dangerous for the House to interfere with the management of the Colonies in opposition to Government, on the other hand, their interference, if in favour of what Government had already done, was little less than utterly useless--indeed, he was prepared to go further, and to say, that not only might it be useless, but even dangerous. There were examples of this in the Colony of Demerara. The Honourable Gentleman who pro posed this Resolution ought to state distinctly what he meant, for experience had shewn, that no greater danger could exist in the Colonies than that which was produced from the vague reports that reached them, respecting the intentions of Parliament to this country. No sooner had they been tran quillized by the assurances of Government, conveyed to them through their . local Governors, than they were regulated by the motions which were made in this House, and which gave the people of the Colonies a false idea that the Government was behind Parliament in their intentions, and required to be stimu lated to effect the amelioration of the Colonies. He believed that most of these proceedings were caused by a Society in this country, of whose course he could not approve. He believed that their proceedings were not only totally irreconcileable with common prudence, but that they were opposed to the true interests of those people for whose advantage they were intended, and that they were calculated to produce irremediable mischief and most extensive confusion—(Hear, hear, hear ! from • the Ministerial Benches).—He had not wasted his time in reading the pamphlets issued by this Society, but he thought he had not been mistaken in his description of them. The Mem bers of this House, who concurred in the proceedings' of the' Society to which 'he had alluded, in some measure followed up the example, by frequeiit notices on this subject. An Honour able Gentleman near him had given, on the first day of the Session, a notice of a motion with respect to the state of Slavery in the Colonies. That motion had since been post poned, but in the mean time, the paper had been crowded with incidental notices upon the same subject, one of which had been given by the Honourable. Member for Weymouth.-- He should say that their ~ object was obvious, if he could reconcile their conduct with the honourable principles which he knew) they possessed; but from what he knew of them, lie must say, that their conduct was totally irreconcilable with their principles. As the Honourable Member who proposed this Motion did not require the inunediate emancipation of the negroes, he could not possibly understand what could be his object. He trusted that these Gentlemen would see that the steps of Govern ment could not be accelereted without the greatest danger to the Colo pies. It was already on record, that the partial insurrection which had taken place in Jamaica had been caused by the same means. The negroes laboured under the most complete deception. They believed that there was a conflicting power at home, acting in opposition to the Government under which they were living. This belief led them into those errors so dangerous to the peace of the Colony. The negroes of the best conduct and characters were the most deceived. Their masters had so described them in their account of the insurrection. He trusted that this instance of the effect of unnecessarily agi tating the Colonies, wo u ld serv e as a warn ing to lionourabl Gentlemen.' He believed that the Me thodists had attempted more to introduce moral and religious instruction amongst the negroes than any other set of men, but even they had come to the resolution that the state of slavery in Jamaica had nothing in it repugnant to Christianity. He should prefer their opinions to those of people at home, who spoke with out such means of information. He had no doubt that the state of slavery formerly existing in the colonies did require interference ; that interference was now in a state of pro - greie ; and if the country was satisfied with the course now pursued, we' should arrive many years sooner at the object of the wishes of. all classes, than if we attempted to attain it Ly goading on the .Government to greater and more dangerous exertions. Mr, BROUGHAM said, that after what had fallen from the Hon. MeMber Who had just resumed his seat, the House would feel he could not sit still and listen quietly to the gross misre presentations of that lion. Member. He assured his Hon. Friend that he did not speak this with a view to accuse him of wilfully misrepresenting .any thing, but merely to state, that he had done so from mistake and ignorance of the facts. Yet that mistake ought to be corrected ; and he repeated, he could not sit still and listen to the most gross misrepresentations, founded entirely as they were upon the most entire misapprehensions that he hail ever yet heard, and which, iu the coarse of this dis cussion, had fallen from his Honourable Friend with regard to the conduct of the Honourable Mover, of the Members of that House, and of the persons forming the Anti-Slavery Society.— He should conic at once to the charge against the Anti-Slavery Society, because the Members of that Society out of the House, and the supporters of their principles in it, were charged with having agitated the country, and with having been the whole cause of exciting the feelings of the country—those feelings which he knew did exist, and in the existence of which he rejoiced—(hear !), and which, he sincerely trusted and believed, would continue to exist until it hadproduced its effects on the deliberations of that House, if necessary, and on the conduct of the Government, if re quisite—and, though last, not least, in the scale of difficulty, even On the conduct of the West Indian Legislators themstdves.—(Hear, hear!)—tie denied, however, that this feeling was to be attribut ed to the exertions of that Society, or to their pamphlets, or to the speeches at their meetings ; at least, if by their pamphlets and speeches were meant misrepresentations of facts and appeals to the passions, and not appeals to the reasons of their readers and auditors. declared that there had been no misrepresentation —no ap peals to excite this feeling; but that the West Indians had been allowed to tell their own tale, and,on the facts which they had dis closed had the opinions of all impartial men and the feelings of the people been unanimously roused. He had been told of the pamphlets of the Anti-SlaVery Society, and with respect to thme,ha 1 every advantage over his Honourable Friend—a ,circumstanee which fully accounted for his Honourabl e F r i en d' s misrepresentation of them; he had • read them.—(Hear ! and a laugh.)—Now, his Honourable Friend had admitted that he had not read these pam phlets ; in filet, that he could not waste his time in reading them. It was well that his Honourable Friend could bestow his time so'much better ; but all lie (Mr. Brougham) would ask was, that if the Hon. Gentleman had not time or inclination to read them, he would not manifest so strong an inclination in that House to condemn publications, which he had not read, and to stigmatise, as false, statements of which he knew nothing, and to describe, as foul and e , erous dealers in facts, and as exciters of passion, those penons whose speeches and whose writings he had never read, and to condemn the conduct of those in that House whom, though he might not have the inclination, he must have the time to hear,— (Hear ! and a laugh.)—For himself; he could say that, except in one or two instances, he had attended none of the meetings of this Society; but of the speeches of the members of the Society at those meetings, as well as those of its supporters in the House, he must that though they were disc uss i ng a most though they were handling a most in important justie l e nat say, ter , delicate subjeet—indeed; one of the most delicate and difficult to handle, and one, a mistake in the handling of which, there might be consequences of the greatest danger, not only to co iienhstwaimra(shhe, lonial affairs, but to national policy—yet, making a ll t h e allow ances for die difficulty, the delicacy, and the danger of the . . in n) had such a measure been recom mended sudden,, or an humediate emancipation had been advocated by in question, he bad not observ ii es e l . r o e n p e ea i t n e s i t , a t i h ic i e lt the most ardent friend of the negroes, by the most vehement e or declaimed on by way y of negro of raising the passions of the auditors. He had conversed with % r i' :e oel i i d e se n lxa t, c;P'o' suggested in advice, persons NOW were familiar with this subject, and with the man ner in which it had been treated; from them he had inquired whether anything was out of joint ; and he had uniformly found that the Society had taken the tone of lamenting the existence theret reatbmeeen been any an of y the speeches necegrhoes. made of slavery in its present stat e , an d o f urging the necessity of atbu p u ro o v n e e m o e f nt tihnethAereoeatnindgits hationand i which had not exhibited a due re and 'Ad' the vetted interests'of the slave owners. If any such instance - did' exist, he was not aware of it ; he should be glad to bear of it; but he must say, that if he did hear of it now, it would be.for the first time. He need not dilate upon the importanceof the question as regarded the claims of 800,000 of our fellow-subjects. Such a .question, considering, too, the nature of the claims to be discussed, needed no efforts to excite passion ; it related to the. condition and suf ferings of eight hundred thousand of our fellow-subjeets, who demanded, and who had a right to deinand, that their state should be duly considered, and their condition, if possible, amelio rated and improved. He, hinuself, hid been alluded to; be was charged with having put a ragas= on the book, and with having afterwards withdrawn it. Nov the truth of the matter was this--he had come down to the House with papers in his hands, fully prepared to discuss the motion, but before it came to - his turn to bring it forward, an Honourable Friend of his (the Member for Weymouth) had presented a netitianwlaich bad caused a conversation that had anticipated .hisproposed discussion, and in the course of which opportunity was given for a speech made by the Honourable Secretary for the Colonial Depertnient, containing a detail of filets with which that Honentruble Gentleman alone could be acquainted, which it was not possible for hies to dispute or to answer. To that statement he was bound to give credit, at least for the moment, and he did so, though lie was now convinced that the Honourable Secretary had been deluded. He had put one or two questions, to sift as far' as he could the accuracy of his statements, and this was all that could be done by him on the sudden ; in consequence of. which be had taken the only course he could take--which be had adopted, not with out hesitation, and which, after impressions had. converted into the certainty that he had done wrong in adopting—but he could do no better at the time. He had now papers and documents, from which he could distinctly prove, that the Hon. Secretary for the Colonies had been actually deluded, though at the time the state ments of that Hon. Gentleman hail led the Houk, the country, and him (Mr. Brougham), to believe that something had been done, whereas he was now ready to state that nothing bad been done deserving of consideration, or to redeem the pledge of the Government ; or indeed, which merited any other description than that of a mock and evasive compliance on the part of the local Government, with the desire of Parliament and the country. However, he bad been obliged to postpone his motion, and the postponement of one day made a postponement of six weeks necro vary. It no* stood for May 11, the last day to' which it could be postponed, and if. could not be brought on then, he would like some Wednesday, for the purisme of discussing it, although that , course might be in some degree inconvenient. In the mean time he was of opinion that all the incidental notices should be gone through in detail, reserving for the last the more general and en larged view of the subject. The Hon. Member concluded by say ing, he had heard nothing to-night which would prevent him frdm giving his vote in favour of the present motion ; more especially as the Hon. Secretary for the Colonies had not said that Government had done all that was the object of that motion to effect. Mr. Secretary CANNING.—In the view, Sir, which I take of this question, it lies in a narrow compass . ; and I shall not, there fore, find it necessary to trespass long on the attention of the House.' If the motion were made with the object of throwing suspicion on the intentions of Government, either as they were originally con ceived, or as they have been carried into 'execution—if it wer e thought necessary to arraign the Government before Parliament,either for departing from the pledge now given, or for having ne glected to enforce the system, resolved op by Pe liament, by all th e means in its power, there would be sufficient reason for rejecting the motion, when I should, as I easily Might, have disproved th e allegations on which the suspicions were founded. But the singu larity of the present motion is this, that it professes, as many other motions of the same kind have professed, to be brought forward with the object of furthering the views adopted he Govern' meat, and of supporting its efforts in attaining that c ommon object, in which the Parliament and the Government' concurred.. On a motion so founded, if I were to venture to give ,an opinioa, I should say that it was both inanspiciouls and u npopular , professing, as it does, not to oppose but support--net to at' raign, but encourage, the Government. . I midi doubt, Sir , whether it answers this professed purpose. The present is not the only motion made, with the' same professed object; it is but a series or part of a system--a specimen of the whole. No man can look at the great question to which the motion refers, with sewthoihul out being sensible that it is involved in an infinity of difficulties. The question which, in its first and principal characteristics; is so plain, that no man can consult his own bosons, and u? come to the conclusion of those who have expressed themselves in p t t i l: ar t e m i i t: warn in its favour cannot examine the conduct of G'overnment, and h e t o lk in t, - who warmness or insincerity. At an early stage d e mp ha tic a not 7ne b i t e m ellt s permitted o f action,l bya have t m is :a y s: e n s , f o c . : t y hu t e e . ,, t ttio;:shsoefte: : t e n i : th o i s; r t el nd foveae of vernment had the good fortune to propose Resolutions ill . which the House c ame t o an unaninunts conclusion. s From that time forward the proceedin gs o f t h e G ove r nment wer e not to be ju d g ed o by any preconceived principles of action, but by those Resolutions, and by the conformity o f it s c on d uct to t h em . It was not to be judged of by the opinions of any individuals ; for the y bad, br_ the common consent of the 'louse, been overruled; but the conduct of Government w a s t o b e j u d g ed of in reference to those Resolutions ; and the only question which could be r a ised wf i whether the Government, in sincerity,, And lona fide, to th e _, best of its judgement, ent, and the means in its power, had itsela , ll these means to carry the Retalutions of the House into ef fect? ' ' With the exception of the threatened motion of the Honey? able and Learned Gentleman—and I. do not mean to bind hal, to terms of his promised Motion—but. with the exception :p! that, I must say, that all the motions which have been brought f ,nyard, or threatened to be brought forward, are hazardous le, adopt, not tit for discussion, and all calculated to retard, e el accelerate, the purpase for, which they are professedly broug h t forward. They are not judicious, ems they disturb the temp e —and they are not fair, as, under the pretext of aiding the 0- 1 " v e rnment, they interrupt its course, and break down into area,l and insignificant details—they divide into fractions what le'airo liament has resolved to treat and promote as a whole. Han. Membv says he !brings forward his mot'on to aid the col e vernment. Sir, I tell him the Government does not wan t aid. It is an aid which rather adds to our incumbretZ than increases our power. What, Sir, let me . ask, ar e e 0 er difficulties in our way ? On the one part, we /la" v o f weaning expectation of too, sudden results the liopc wrong-placed enthusiasm, inculcating impracticable saeatair', What are th e diffi c ulties on th e o th er ? Obstinate ro e, ' ante to the projects of the Legislature, impeding all o ur ration e. Are these two classes of difficulties lessened by course of proceeding? Resolutions, Si r , ar e brought s ward at Public Meetings—l do n o t by any meane wifb to sP eis ht disparagingly of Public Meetinge—bur Resoltitions are b!,.: li j, forward at them, which o n ly a dd to t h e enthusiasm o f te _ready enthusiastic; and w h en t h ey are k now n and promulgte ed to the world, threatening those at a s distance, they obstinacy more o b s ti na t e , an d appre h ais i on mo re fear ee fu e j L e (Hear, hear !)—lf th e object of such motions as that r e dly Honourable Membe r were t o condemn us, we -must r" / be ourselves, or submit to 'condemnation. But they are br is t 4 i e forward to assist us ; and every motion is all IMPe dinlen tAlC our way, and makes more difficult of execution the 0 , imposed on us. I say, that these s t a t e ments and these r °°t 'r. throw enormous difficulti e s aroun d the object, and that'aii,ig pursue haps, against the wishes o f th ose who this coarse , T e pe it less practicable, and po s tp on i ng fi na l euccess . On the the hand, by all such appeals enthusiasm is augmented; other, the angry passions are aroused, and the alarms emc n ed, of those who -b e li eve th ey are to b e t h e v i ct i ms . . New o} p"' )rea sltion is engendered, new difficulties created, the old ones ao.ge L rated, and all th e obstacles which Ile in the Way of attaiMe=efeotee common object are mu ltipli e d. It i e sa id, here are tie which ought to be known, end cruelties which ought to stated, to excit e th e a bh orrence th e y :.deserve. You ties; annihilate these facts. You amnia annihilate these ere lees they are atrocities which cry for retribution—they IV, ' on record, and c ann ot b e defined. It is right that seri l „ 3 " -- strous cruelties should be stated, and known to the Ivor' the question now were, Sir, whether this system should be up' held, or not—if there were any lingering reluctance to ael! ti oo ledge its enormities—if-nay attempts w e re made in this nr om to uphold the system—the object of bringing forward such w she be fair, just, and necessary. I can understand, if such wer e ,j mce, what what would be the logical object in bringing fors'a en such statem e nt s ; an d I can un d ers t an d the logical e ° o l. sion which might be drawn from them. But this is not .. zo,, t?e, ject to be obtained. No man upholds the system. !y mare eye that it is necessary t o amend the system ; arid these teeime only brought forward, odioszes, to excite osthusiasol ; w e that rnquires controul, and which can lead to no prac ea e good—(Bear, hear !)—and excite in the Colonies deterla",'; resolution, that must be overcome &fore the purr'e le on be carried i n t o e ff ec t. O n thi s g round, Sir, and ,on this the alone, I am inclined tooppose. this motion. This is .1 10 ; vet first or th e sec on d mot i on which lies been made, and it are the last, by five or six, that are thr e atened to he made, viduit;ree intended, as it is said, : for the purpose of strengthening mitiee _ a went, and whi c h arc on ly calculated io augment its difficotion of (Hear, hear !)—F or these :thane !shell concur in the nt the my Honourable Friend, and propoee to the House motion by, moving the previone question. Before I . ef t onie e , if the opinions or intentions of Government d