The Sun. — London, England, 1808-04-08 00:00:00

IMPE WA L PAR LlifiliENT. HOUSE OF-PEERS, THURSDAY, APRIL 7. The Irish Cdtton, and the Irish Bark Export Pro hibition Bills, went through ri Committee.' • • JESUITS BARK. Mr. John Campbell, as Counsel for Mr. Ferman ,Detassal, was then heard agaiust. the Bill for Pro, hibiting the Exportation of this Article, and called evidence in support. of the-allegations he had ad vanced. The witnesses called were Mr. Williams, Mr. Coisie, Mr. Parkinson, &c. After they had answered to a variety of questions put by several Peers, the Learned Counsel was called upon to sum up; when, observing that he had still more evidence to call to the bar, and being anxious to re-consider his case, he begged the indulgence of the House till to-morrow for preparation. The Lean CUANGkLLOR thought The Learned COunsel might sum up immediately ; upon which a motion was made that the Learned Counsel do have till to-morrow to prepare. This motion produced a long conversation, which Lord AVCK LAND closed by moving an Amendment, " that the Darned Counsel be Called in to alledge .tne reasons whickincluced him to wish deferring to tin op till to-inorroW.'! ' I:he question was put on this Amendment, which *.ts lost, and also the Original motion, on a division. Contents ta,...—Nou-contents 32. ORDER OF THE DAY. The Order of tle Day was then, moved for the third reading of the nark Export Prohibition Bill. Lord 11/0 - HURST rose, and'brielly entered in to an exposition of the measure, and a refutation of • the arguments' that had been urged against it. In its operation it would not amount to an absolute prohibition of the exportation of bark, or a total ex• elusion of that article fleet; ciiz Continent. • ,If the enemy relaxed ;;,,late sever i t y of his Decree which provolet and tirade necessary this measure, and others of a similar tendency, he might mitigate the evils that would result from a privation of bark ; for batik %Amid be admitted into the ports of the Conti nent in proportion to the quantity of •British chandize he might allow to enter into thetiaportsee. If, therefore, the Continent seffered from the want of this healing article; the fault was not imputable to the provisions of this Bill, but to the stubborn unfeeling pride , with which the Ruler of France would adhere to the rigorons enforcement of his fa yr/Mite Decree. Where then was the fouedation for the cry of injustice and inhumanity that had been set up against the Bill? Was it not the ctn. ,- tons to prevent the entrance of bark.. &e. as well as of provisions, into besieged and blockaded , places - --=was the eneetiterefore, a greater violation of the . laws of nations than the other ? No doubt, among the calamities of war, it most perhaps was to be lamented', that the innocent suffered with the guilty —but where was the remedy.?. The remedy was •', in the hands of the enemy ; if their countries suf.. .fered, it would be froncethe unrelenting pertinacity of him who oppressed them ; tint from the measures of self-defence which we adopted to counteraa' his injustice and cruelty. By this measure, the stream of • • mercy Might be somewhat narrowed—but not oh strutted, and it would not be less the strain of mercy, because it carried • with it wherewith to re ward the labours of honest industry. Lord EliSidNE; still dung to the opinion which lie had first formed of the Bill ; it was odious and berbatous, it was repngnatit to humanity, irrecon cilable with the principles of our religion. These sentiments he must adhere to; and would this night record them on their Lordships' Journal. Lord BURINLMON, combated theirguments of the Noble and Learned Lord. Had the 'been absolute and uncenditienal, he might perhaps hesie lite to s,upport it ; but it gave the 'enemy the means of remedying the evil itiniliEled. There were con - ditions upon which he might have bark ; these were `the repeal or relaxation of his own Decree. If lie . chose temdty and obstinately to persist in - his mea sures, were we to relinquish ours, mere/y in order that the pride and vanity ,f the Ruler of France might not be wounded and humiliated. • Lord A LBENARkE argued- at •much length against the Bill. It would prove futile; it would degrade the chara6ter of the nation, Which bad .hitherto been revered for justice and humanity. ; it would estrange from us the hearts and gooel wishes of other nations, which we bad exulted' in possess ing e and, in proportion, it would make the cause of Buounparte popular, for his 'opposition to, a nation who would now .appear to be lost to humanity, to honour, - and religion.. • , Lord WESTMORL,IND was surprised to hear the Noble Lords oppesite to him eternally-dedaim ing against the injustice and the cruelty* their own country and of tire present Administration. Had Aoonaparte made any proVisiodfor allowing bark to be exported iota this country from Spain, or of ahy, other article of which: we might more peculiarly 'stand in need? No such thing. • Had the late Mini sters, in their famous blockade from Brest to the . Elbe, made any provisions for the entrance of bark into the ports they had blockeded "He believed not.- .Where then was their humanity and com peasion Lord HOLLAND contended, that nothing would eontribete to ruder the Bill more odious than the vcry , clause which it was expected would mitigate its severity, andreseue this Country from ,the charge of injusticeeend inhumanity in enacting it. -What ! we would aggravate the horrors of hospitals, exasperate the symptoms of disease, 'accumulate every thing that could 'embitter the sufferings of the innocent end the helplesi, and all this for what.? that we unlit fitii:ceed in introducing a few bales of British hnods into the Continent ) but such measures must ave the flee they deserved. It would soon be known teen wiworser there was bark on board e Ship, there 11):.til necesserily be British merchandize; ti:e ship - would consequently be seized, the British teeth confiscated, endethe bark Secured, if sent to wh e re there exiseel a riereCseity for it, Thus would the enemy cape his otsjeel, and haffleours. Nor .vas it the eeemy, whein we chiefly aimed at dis tressieg,• that veiled be distressed'hy the Bill ; but where bark was used in great quantities, and eete the npelerst and noble sent thatarticle yearly g abet ; let Ai a relief, witimAt which they el health or comfoet. yL~4,' i~ 7 i i' Lord MULGRAVE defended the policy -81)d th• justice of :The hardships which roantt Noble Lords were so fond of ascribing to its opera. • tion, would be the work of the enemy hiMself, and of his own measures; not the result of, this Bill, which left every thing open for the calls Of humanity, and the alleviation of disease, and counteraffed no-, but,the injustice and the violence of the French Government. LORI LAUDERDALE followed the same line of ar gument as Lords ALBEMARLE and HOLLAND. Lord REDESDALE gigued to shew, that the whole of the Orders in Council grew out ot• the order of tDe 7th Oflanuary, 1867, and that conse quently die Noble . ' Lords on the other side, while they were, inveighing against the present Bill, were only accusing and, reprobating, their own meagure which originated. from the same principle. Lord GRENVILLE took a wide survey of the effeds of the Bill, and of the evidence that had been produced at the Bar of the House, to prove its' in jurious'oPeration ; from,. all which, he contended, that it was impolitic, inhuman, and unjust; andthat it would ultimately prove ineffeaual and nugatory The LORD CILdNCELLOR ridiculed the,argu• • meats of the Noble 'Baron, in a verYhappy strain of irony and humour. He rethinded him of his own measures in 1794., which threatened to starve all France. The present GOverninent withheld physic trom the French, the former Government would de prive them of bread. Lord ILd/PKESBURY defended the Bill with great 'force and 'animation. He contended that in nb respect was it inconsistent with justice, humanity, or sound policy, but conformable to the prat - lice of this. Country at all times. The present pleasure was but a link , in the series of measures which had been imperiously called for by the urgent necessity of re taliation, and of the agency of every means that could bring the Enemy to a sense of his own blind violence and injustice ; in short, it was one which promised to operate to th e sa l va ti on o f th e Country, an etreEt whicla experience already, began to prove had taken place to no small extent. As to the charges of inhumanity and cruelty which were affixed to, the measure by the Noble Lords opposite, he could nut but be surprised to hear frotu. the lips of the Noble Baron (Grenville), who was himself the withal , of • a measure, in 1704, which eyidently tended to starve the population of France I , iiitotit any distinetion. Lord ROSLYt' could not help making 'this ob servation, that the price at which the bark had:been procured for the British Army, in I 806, was only one shilling lower than that at which it was known to be now selling at Paris. What then could,be expeaed from the pressure which it was likely to produce on the 'Enemy. The qu'estion was now eagerly called for,-and the House divided on the tttlid veading of the Bill, Contents - 54 Proxies - Non 7 couteuts - 22—Proxies - 22 , 44 Majority fOr'hlinisters - LoreGatiNvio.a presented a clause byway of rider, with a view to indemnify individuals who should.be injured by the Bill. - Lord HAWKESaURY opposed.the'ehiuse, as laying down a bad precedent, and it was rejeded without -q . , rhe Bill was then passed without a n y f ur th er op, position. . Adjourned at Half-past One o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. THURSDAY, AP4XL 7. . A Ballot took place for a Committee to try and determine the ments of the Wexford County Peti tion. The following Gentlemen are upon the Com mittee: Sir Wrn. inglrby, Bart. Charles Henry Tracey, Esq. Hon. Rich. Neville, Lord lames Murray, Albany Saville, Esq. Henry Howard, Esq. Thomas Godfrey, Esq. NOI4I lan C.Llcraft, Esq. NAVAL Earl Percy, William beckford t Est. William A3fent' Alexander Coup Pet!, Esq. Wm. Fitzgerald, E.q. john Podlay, Esq. huts, I Right Hon. Ptnis Browns. ASYLUM. The Secretary of the Naval AsylUm presented at the Bar, pursuant to the Order of the House, certain Papers respecting the Persons hOldin'g Offices in that Institution; which were ordered to he on the table: Sir CHARLES Pout then gave notice, that he should r;tt Monday next move all Address to his Majesty upos a subject connected with the Naval Asylum. Mr. LUSRINGTON gave notice he iiMuld on Mon•' day next move for certain additional Papers relative to the case of Sir Home Popham, and intimated his intention to deter the motion he bad 'already given Peace of upon that subjed, if. the floti Captain Should not be able to attend in his place upon the. day for which at .present it stood. • Ordered, on the motion of Sir THILMAS TURTON, that the Petition of the Jdurneymen Bakers be refer ed to the Committee upon the Broatl Assize Bill, and that it be an instruction to said Committee, that they, have power to Make provision in the' same pur suant thereto. Mr. HENRY PARNELL, in consequence of the communication made to the House yesterday, that the appointment of an Hon. Member of the Down, patrick Committee; to which he bad adverted, had not taken place, declined making the motion of which he had given notice for this day. Mr. FOSTER gave notice that he shisild on Mon. day next; in the Committee of .Supply, move the usual grants for the wiscellanqua 4rVice; of Ire land. • CONSOLIDATED FUND. Mr.. HMI 3 oN, in consequence of some oliserva. tions winch had fallen from a Right Hon. Gentle man opposite (Mr. Tierney), yesterday, moved that there be laid before the House an:Account of the Income of the Cotbolidated Fund from the sth of December, 1897, to the sth of April, JEI08; distin , guished under the usual heads. • _ _ The Account was itinuediately presented by Mr. FiumtsSoo i and ordered to lie upon the'fable, and to be printed. The Irish Milks 'Bill was reported, and ordered to be read a third time to-raurrow. • 'The Irish Cast() 1301, .and the Irish Promissory Notes wore ea Ch read a second time, aid ot:-• dered to be co minted„ tile, former to-morrow, the littickr 011 Mooda il:tt. ASST.SSED TAXES BILL, The CHANCLLI,OI( of the EXCIIMV th moved ,h e Order of the Day tor the second readinA of the As sessed Taxes Bill. Mr. BIDDULPH begged to call the attention of the. House to this Bill, which was about to pass without that degree of- notice which its importance .11,1 l went to repeal . all the_exigitio Assess F dl:axes, and to grant others in lien thereof, and as the - cLiestitutional mode of proceeding had not been taken with resp - e&to it, - and no Parliamentary, ground had been laid for the imposition of new taxes, however unusual it was to take such a course, 'he should oppose the further progress of the Bill, - unless some satistaaory ground 'should be shewn in. sup- , port of,the measure. The forms of the House were , .t constitutional barriers against innovations, such as this Measure; and he Should therefore oppose the measure, unless a constitutional ground should be laid for its adoption. • • Mr. HUSK ISSON, not understanding 'what the Hon. Gentleman meant by constitutional -ground, begged' to state to the House the grounds upon Which his Right Hen. Friend had brought for ward this measure. The House would be aware that it was due to the public - creditor, when an addition was made to the public debt, to make a provision for the interest and charges accruing from such addi tion; It would be recolleaed that a sum of four Millions of Exchequer Bills had been funded in the course of the present Session, the charge tar interest ttnd sinking fund upon which amounted to 250,0001. The sum to be raised by the Bill before the House was something more than tOO,OOOl. as part of the Ways and Means for defraying the charge alluded to ; as the Assessed Taxes were to be collected from the stii of April, it was desirable, however small the addition may be, to bring forward the prop°- , sition in time, so that people might be aware. of the extent of it. As he was on his legs he took occa ' tion to state, that . there was a clause in the Bill lbr reducing the allowance of poundage' to 'the Cullee-; tors 'one fouith,,, by which there would - be a saving .: to the public of t !i,000l. Mr. BIDDULPH was not satisfied with dept.. planation of the Honourable Gentleman,_ who had notcOpnnunicatect any thing but what the House knew before. Parliament was a great Council of Finance to the Government, and ought to be con atitotialay consulted upon all subjeats of new taxes. 'lt was from a conviction, that so far as the 262;0001: Ore annual charge upon the funded Ex; chequer Bills, no new taxes were necessary, as 'he could shew, and on that account he should oppose the further progress of the Bill. The CHAACE,LLOR of the EXC'HEQUEif Was hot sensible of any unconstitutional circum stance conne&ed with this measure. If the HOn. Gentleman believed that he could point out a mode Of proViding for the payment of the interest of the addition to the public debt, without new taxes, that was a sufficient reason for his taking the course he adopted, or preferring his own suggestion. Bui the House must expect that the Hon Gentleman should state his proposition before it would interfere with the progress of the measure. It was desirable, if the Bill was to. pass in the present Session, that it. should be passed with all convenient expedition.— When the Bill should go into the CoMmittee, the Hon. Gentleman would' haie an opportunity of - making any suggestion that occurred to him upon it. But the HOWL: would not interrupt the progress of. "the Bill upon the bare assertion of any Hon. Mem ber, that there was a something preferable to the Bill, which, upon another occasion, he would state to theHonse. Mr. TIERNEY contended 'that the . Measure .. ought to have ofiginated in the usual way, in a Com inittee,Of Ways and Means; where the resources of the year were brought forward in the explanation of what was commonly called the budget. The !Ugh; Hon. Gentleman, be would not say endeavoured to smuggle this measure through the House, but was certainly bringing forward the Ways and Means of the year by piece-{neat. It been said, the addi,- tion proposed was small, but the House shoUld, re collea that to per cent. had been recently -added to the Assessed Takes, 'aid the o per cent, now propos ed to be added, with the former addition, amounted to 12 per cent. The Bight Hon. Gentleman had not assigned any one reason for this addition Of le per cent - He would not say this-may not be the best way of raising the sum proposed, but there was no ground 'tor departing front the ordinary course of pro ceeding in bringing forward the bodget. He thought, therefore, the Right Hon. Gentleman' ought to sus pend the progress of this Bill, till his Hon: Friend. should have an opportunity of shewing how the oc casion might be met without resorting to fresh taxes,' and the experience last year shewed that, this was not improbable. The • CHA INTEL LOR of the EXCHEQUER disclaimed any intention to take the House by sur prise on this , measure., On the contrary,. be had. - giVen notice of his propositiop of a Bill for consoli dating the'Assessed Taxes in the- regular manner. He had at the same time intimated' his intention to propose the addition of two per cent. and to transfer the Game Licence Dutieli to the Assessed Taxes. It would be competent to the Hon. Gentlemen oppo site to propose any measure they thought expedient. He should. not have any objeklion to allow any rea sonable time before the Bill .should go into a COM , . mittee. _ Dr. LA 11 1 13E1V CE observed, that it was'upon the principle that the measure was objeted to, -and the principle ought not to be abandoned. • He agreed with his Hon. Friend, that the 'Parlianent was a great Council of 'Finance, to assist the Ministers in the inn :zetnent of the resources of the 'Country. It was post expedient, that the course usually prac tised should not be. departed from, and - therefore be hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would suspend the Bill in its present stage, until the produdion of the . general Ways and Means of the year. Mi _ROSE observed, that the Comolidated Fund Ad, by which a much larger additiou of taxes was made than was proposed by the present bill, passed belthe the geural Ways and Means of the year were brought' forward. Dr. LAVIRENCB explained. •Mr. if' 111TBREAD , aoked, why, .a"ffer the tri- Urephant mak of the z ;rowing produce cf the Consolidated Fund, :it shiiold be zieees,,:ry to press this measure forward ? raileolLP,.•r,-,! (bat the pqssing of the Coosolithited Fund At:. *ez;,.:•e laYs ai d Meat cat the )e" had tm"eil lw" T.J4 Wartle Wa6 sUbjcel ut cui.oplaiut AL the licrx. preient nkbasure Wag esitoily with that a grievance. Upon these grounds be trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would put off the measure for the pre. sent The 818 'was then read a ,second time r..ithout any. division upon the question, and ordered to be cornmitted . on Monday. • Mr, . Elm the LISCS -respeEting..the Game Licences would be introduced into the Bill, after which it would lie over till 'after the holidays. ' 'ORDERS IN COUNCIL. Mr. TIERNST gave notice, that lie should move on Monday, that seieral persons, whose names be read, should be Ordered to attend the Committee _upon the Petitions against the Orders in Council, in order to-be examined. INTERNAL DEFENCE. Lord Carrell/MA(lli gave notice, that on Tad! day next he should subMit..te proposition to ale Rause, respekling the Internal Defence of theCOUtr try. The course he meant to pursue was, first, td state to the House a general outline of the . measure . which his Majesty's Ministers thought expedient to recommend to Parliament for its adoption, . with. a view to the internal security and defence of the Country; after which the Bill would be brought in and printed, and then suffered to lie over for some time, in order to give Gentlemen a full opportunity of considering its provisions. REVERSION GRANT BILL. Mr. BxNKS.s moved, the Order of the Day for going into a Committee on the Reversion Oral* • Prevention Bill. On the question for the SPEAKER'S leaving the Chair, Lord OSSULSTONB delivered his sentiments upon the measure at some length ; but in so low a tone 05 to be inaudible in the. Galiery. - The House then resolved itself into the Commit . tee, Mr. HENRY, THORNTON, in the Chair. Mr. BANKRS, in meting to fill tip the.first blank, felt it necessary to remind the Ctete. oit tee of the situ ation in which they stood %N .- Ith respett to this The former measure having been rejeaed In the House of Lords, they were precluded, by the forms . of Parliament, from 'sending up the same measure in the esatmoehsiem a matter of dutyssion.Underthese circumst ances it discretionto ; propose to' bring in a Bill for a tilde' fobelielted by which that House would attain one of the_oite jets which i( had in view, namely, to prevents the grant of Places in Reversion for the present. M the whole measure could not be .n:compiished, it becatue necessary to restrain its operation to a limited period , andin doing this it was his desire . to adopt that course which would be most conciliating and least offeasire to the other branch of. the Legislature. Under this impression s he should abstain- as much as possible from making any observations upon the proeet 4 ,,g s of the ether flouse;'except such as ehould.beillthi pensable. He had intended to 'Milt the hill to L ty° years, but as that term had been' proposed and re jetted in the Committee upon the Bill in the Lord s, . it had been suggested to him that the inseriion that term might be objeationable, because the otbq Hotise had already rejeeled it. He had therefore adopted a -cOurse, which he hoped would give, every satiOaaion to that House, and not be of fthvi;v• to the other [-louse at' Parliament. The fits b ti l o a n nk of h t e he si vt lo 'o u r l t t l i s, l" ;: e on t e o I;aevaer L fillets by t he • pas,frig of the AB, and : until six weeks after the commove:, merit of the Then next ensuing session of P,arlialoca l ' d shorter period- than -this lie trail& D oe ita would not, propose ; and, of thiS was only - the begin . Bing of the inquiries which the Hotise - had threa 4 to be made, this period.would afford ample oPPq r• (unity to the committee of Finance and :the MeT2- bens pf that House to inquire into and a,certstilcsi what offices were granted in reversion; which ' 4 ' 4 .. be found not to be very numerous. , lii prepo...l.ltl_. this limitation l as imi a ta l t t i u o l n le , lie h d e to he i g t g l t ) : the House to e oo :a l . ic r, could not accomplish the whops of % ,b v e li c a a t ti4ll ; it t l i ' i l a j t originally in view, he was bound to Pur'u e t _. et , course which: would insure arty part of his ) 0 ,1 With this view .it was that lie proposed that rl3a o i ti t o ‘ i v l o w ul h d ich be first blank shotild be filled up ill th e I : l : l ; n eo sr u et before stated. But as he was °D ills l e g s ' *)- - „e u las h c e les t i n ra e 6 at i t e t of the Bill. The alteration - he proposed -w.watd substitute the word " Atispenti;" for 11 °. 10 - " prevent" thq: grant of offices in -revers , in es eoe . the prea l9 It was of little moment in itself which wee_ was retained, .beottuse,.in fad, the dui atitto 70t. tfoorp'rlutittzse.to vitt; an ..11_3,0, Bill being waned to a limited period, it 6) ' ; 00 be considered in any other light than as a suspc9 l,. . o f and if this alteration should promote the measure, he felt the more disposed tq,°!'?l te o As to the other Amendments he had to pro( trice were merely verbal, and therethre_did n y ot reli t u ile t o , be particularly mentioned. Having e*PO e `, rap oe, lure of the not which he t ti at the p;'!' , 4 r he could not but express a-hope, that ip ]ti f„g tiat Friend; who concurred with hini in , t!lo; H .. tis e est in ti le would 3 tie s l t ea he st ßi o ll b j s c h a o i u o l u d n b b e i6 sent up n form, t o the other Y night, because to those Aniendmen assent.—He trusted that the .alterauans wild aatiefatiory , had just stated would appear .vit o Amendments which he had adverit'eaterPoileoni:oauflodrlitao., h it Right . Hon. • Friend, whoSC AMen dnlent t s ) . 'l c ' et of opened, were direEted to 'their ,co.Ttnonit other promoting ,the success of the Bin_ House ; and in that case he was sure hisftli!,,,, be Friend would have no difficulty in rt . 'r Amendments. • as unwilling that in pursuit l rP-E o i f t t he E r t a L s u l‘ r to be adopted on this occasion, should s it .. 1 7 110 ,1 the Lords a Bill SO entirely similar to tie i?; tint possibly;:with any regard to theirfoirTe oti , l ! before rejected, that their - coucurrenees r:iris,ss tency, be expeaed. On this groom D:EI fernier night, :.when his, Hen. Frierel similar, it net•altogether the same as tha!, e 7 tin w sst ly rejeeted in the Lipper House, -infirat : by his tesptets he considered the j Honourable Friend improper. - He in titti . * Mode a. 6 „ o ..i t i e i ` ed t een, as e els DOW,t_hat the. limitation to Py, act ,„,ees• tee)), in, the other House; had otb. 1 ° propticed by .a &able Friend, of hi i s . (Lor° ,tipat feature of the Bill- now befew,.l {lto' ato er 1 ,. 1 ether ;se than as belie; ,conveYea E i j oOthc' lie therefore cou'iti have, ti0".i(1t"i'cc:::::1; wlucb it could not be . expecte d t°