The Sun. — London, England, 1810-05-04 00:00:00

• Parliament. It was a singular circurhstance be. lengiaig to this case,*. that although he had the ho . nour of being most .intitnate.witle the Noble Lord then Chief Secretary for Ireland (Lord Wellington), ..a , riA though he was living in his fattier's.house in Dublin. ate the ,time.when this job, as. it had been • ,ealled, was going. on, he never heard one word about 'it, vor kuewof the transaction, till he reedit in the Report.- But he had other grounds of compla?nt against these Commissioners; they had not stated that this case had_been referred. to the Law Officera .of the Crown,and that they had .Wade a Reportde , cidedly in- favotir of Mr.-Croker'S claiM. It might have been expected, that, in point of fairness, when they. were - about to make"this Report, they would have examined' Mr..Croker himself upon the sub - jai but not one question did they et er put to hint upon the : subject, though they had daily ppportuni . tiesOf doing it. He concluded with stating, / that 1 . • . ha trnstcd -he had made out a clear case, and that he had -done justice, to Mr. Croker. Whit respell to the Charak.ler of that 'Gen tieman, the Gentlemen op posite to him had spoken of it in terms which left -hinenotNtig to wish upon the.subjeN, If any thing more had been , necessary, believed . he, might • -safely appeal to the Right Hon. Gentleman who .• ..filled' the Chair. Iftebelieved Mr. CrOker attracted that Gentleman's notice .'when he was in Ireland, and he belleved . also that beiewed that notice to the high.chara6ter Which he -possessed. . [We regret that we have only been able to . give , 3:faint sketch of IVIr. Crekei's speech, Which ,made. ,a peat. impression • he sat down amidst cheers fr om :• both sides of the Fionse.] - , Sir JoHit NEWPORT disclaimed any ilea of wish - ittg to throw -blame on • Mr: Croker, whom he ad mitted was a highly meritorious. officer. Belot now apprized of the circumstances just stated by the Hon. Gentleman, which were perfeetly Satis . to Cory, be should withdraw the_ two first Reseda-. • thins. - At the same time.he must still &insider the' : Board of. Exciseas very negligent. • . Mr. W. PQ.I.E; referring: o the Report, observed, that if the Right Hon. Baronet had taken tl*troo - ..1 a .ble to read it, he would have found in the Appendix - _that Mr. Croker stated in. his -Memorial' that, claim was proper and legal, and , the.Commissionera, .1n their Report, bear ;him put, tty stating that he, was entitled to, a-Moiety of the sum. in question by - law. ' • - . - Mr. M. Ferzoseiep considered the giving of i tnoiety.Of the -fines to the inforMer not as an equi. .table principle. • He bore testimony to the merits of Mr. Croker as a public officer. •.; • The Cnasieeeeciaof the EXCHE 0...t7ER thought that Croker had great ground of complaintagainst the Commissioner's for having made so incorrect a po / rert, which had been suffered' to rankle in the . public mind to the prejudice of that Gentleman since Febivary 1809. He thought . the Right Han. - 'Baronet, before he brought the charge, would have done as well to have looked into the Revert, and .not have taken the wcrd of the ,Commissioners. The two first resolutions t ere then withdrawn, Oct the question being put on the third resolution, Mr. W. Poee, said,, he trusted the House would indulge film for a, few minutes while he answered the attacks which the Honourable Baronet had made upon the Irish Gevernment„ for die transac tion -respeeling the- post Office. .What shad passed " upon the preceding - resolution shoUld be a warning to him in future to be.cautious how he brought for ward charges- affecting persons - of high charaeter, end:hove he applied sech'epit hets, without taking care to bein fell possession of the facts of the case. He flattered himself that ip this case he should cOn vince 'the House that the. Hon. Bart. was as -corn , pletely mistaken . , with restie6l to ihe facts„as he Was in the last. The Hon. Bari. had, began' by 'stating, that when' this subje& - was before under discussion, he *(Mr. Pole) had got rid of it by 'the . 'previous question, and•had skulked from. the fair tlecision of the question. ,This language of the ,Hon. lait.'wouiti teach him'. in future not to skew so .• • Much courtesy - as be had done upon the occasion • allatlecl to. -The House would, reColle6i, that when the Hon: Bart. brought (onward ; . his re•oltition re ipeti-ing the Irish Post Office, on a format - 411i, he eeixed it with so much fact, that he (Mr.. Pole) . ..from mere Courtesy, did not think it right toepra. pose a direct negative, but had moveel theprevious question. He would -take care, 'however,. how lie showed such courtesy again. He did not! nreao:tb accuse the Honourable Baronet of doing any thing tuipailiamentary, 'hut. Certainly it :Was not usual . ter' bring a subject a gecond time under dis cuSsion " hen it had been once de6cled. He h a d .v. re little to state upon this'subjeet nave more than . he had urged on a former occasion e but as many k;entiemen who were present now had not beard his former statement, he would, with the permission of 'the Rouse, shortly repeat it. s The. Right Hon. Ba • • tOnet bad fallen into au error respecting-the case of Mr. Forward, into which he had been led by the Re- port ; he had stated, that : that Gentleman had been , i auaerannuated, after only eight years sersice. ' That .wrs not the fact ; the case was shot tly. this. In 1800 • IVIr. Forward was, by patent, appointed Treasurer of the Post Office, an office which was conaidered•ts a - perfect sinecure, He remained in it, neverdoing duty, until 1808, when-the Office was reformed. During a..part of- that period the Right Hoe. Baronet and _ his friends ,were in office, and they never had called upon Mr. For ward to do any duty, so perfeci ly (lid they -,.. - consider his office as,a sinecure. The Commissioners in their Report, had stated,. as a principle, that pub• lie officers should not be remunerated except. for * long services, but that that Gentleman had been re- Inlanerated after - a service of onty - ight years. Now there was the more unfairness le this statement, be canse it was partly true. aed 'partly false.: They . ought to have stated', that this office' of Mr- For-. Ward's was a perfea sinecure, that upon the reform of the office he had been removed, in order that the pfrthe of Treasurer of the Post-Office might be made efficient; and that be had been - remunerated, as was always the case when patent officers were removed. There was in this Report, as there waS in the Re?ort espeCting the case of Mr. Croker, tuaterials" given in the appendix, out of which a fair statemlt might be made ; but the commiasioners thought ewe/ to frame their Seportite the way he had mentioned...—. *They had used the word superannuation, as .applied Form ard, and used it Most improperly., That Word was not used in the order for granting him •- %101. KS THIS JAY AT TWALVIL O'CLOCK. Consols . Rcd. Ann. -69 H 4 though many fac i tious spirits whoa never will be satisfied with any measures of Government, because they are enemies to the Constitution, may censure the rejection of what is called the. Middlesex Peti tion, last night in the House of 'Commons, .there can be no doubt that the people at large will entirely approve of, the refusal of a Petition couched insuch iusulting . terms. Indeed, it is impossible• to suppose that the persons who signed that Petition-could have entertained any hope that it would be received. the intention apparently was, to try what the Rouse would bear, and to induce the public' to be , lieve that Ministers are adverse to the' right of. Petition. But the language' they adopted was by no means calculated .td accomplish their own ends, for t 1 opposition Menibers, as well as those who support the measures of Government, revolted against such language, and seemed ,to con sider it as. the mischievous effusion of a denuieratic spirit: Ministers have fully shewn that they are I not hostile to the right to petition, by theii unwil lingness to, reject the Westminster Petition, though db. that Was tfy no means consistent with the decorum • which ought to be observed towards the Representa tive Body. Upon the whole, the friends of the Constitution have•reason to rejoice that such a Pe tition was presented, because it fully developers the airns?of the faaion, and because it has induced men of all parties, who are not averse to Monarchy, ' and who only" wish for" what -has been denOrninined a temperate 'reform, to join 41 rejeaing the lnsdlent language, and in resisting alb mischievous intention of men, who, in spite of experience; are endeavour ing to' destroy the• Constitution of, the Country, though they themselves would assuredly 'be buried in its ruins. The Morning Chronicle denies that there is any ' Similitude between the caseto which we allud e d . . yesterday; respeaing the. Printer . of the Oracle, in 1805, and the case- of Mr. GALE - JONES, and justifies 'the Conduct of its. friends by saying, that the Whigs never denied the power of the House : to- prated it self against - obstrua i0n...8u the case of - the Printer of . the-Oracle %cgs not .a case of 'obstruction, it was,a cAsp of fibet *and Mr. Fox, Mr. GREY, and Mr.. WHITBREAD COOtendedthat . the• House had aright to commit for libel - . But it is said that the Printer was - not committed to the custody of the Kitig,Cbut into that of the Serjeant'at Arms; but surely the ques tion in discussion isnot respecting the place of confine trient,..but whether the House of Commons have the power to order a man into' confinement fora libel. The MOrningehronicleaclmits thatiVlt.Fox did pot approve of sending a case of privilege to he triedin a Court of Law ; " But," - oys- the: Chronicle, "'we thought at " the time, and think stiil, that ttiat w as , a w i se an d " sound doctrine for the . Whigsl to hold in the w " settled time of our Constitution, 'N•sillelerh e Judges ". were dependent On the King, a n d w h en i t would . • " have been•tantaMount to the making his 'Majesty. 4 . 1 the Conservator of the Privileges ' of • the Corn " mons ;' but the case is now materially ' altered " when the - Judges are nobly. independent of We Crown, on the exercise' of their jurisdiction, • tboqgh &rising their authority from his appoint " anent; —We should be -glad to ask whether the Judges were not . quite as independent in 1805, when Mr. Fok maintained that doctrine,- as they are at this moment ? • The sale Of -Lord .SOMEIWILLE'S -Merino flock commenced on Wednesday at. Fairmill Farm, near Cobham, Surrey. 150 sheep were sold which pro duced between 3 and 70001. Yesterday morning the loth, or Prince's Regi-, ment of Hussars, marched to their old qua:ters.at Rumford; from Islington, Pentoriville;' Higttgare, &c. where they hav e b een .cioakteteci for Plese few weeks. Lieutebant RLTON 'BROWNE TUCKER, of the 24th Light Dragoons, (brother of Licut:-Colonel GEORGE JAMES BRUERE TUCKER, and Captain N. 13: TUCKER, who were lost on board: th e Primrose sloop of war s --on thou return to Spain,) is taken *soner on board the eliarletorl East lniiaman, lately "captured in the Bay o f Bengal, after ase ere action of one hour and fifteen minutes, against a very su-, perior force. • SMITHFIELD MARKET, MAY 4. This day's . Market - had but a se,art.p supply of dif-. ferent kinds of. Cattle ; IVlutton, Pork , •and Lamb; support last prices; Beef and. Veal aredearer ; and • the trade for the most part was but indiffeient,. Toe sales in the Flay Market were not lively -; Say; Straw, and Clover, obtained lest under mentioned prices and numbers are an accurate,state meat : To sink the Offal per stone of 81b. • Beef 45. Bd. to6s. ad.. Mutton 4S. 6d. to 6s. 4 d . V ea l S s; 6d. to 7,5. 4rl. Pork ss. ,od. to 7s. oil. L.snib (is...A. logs. odr lieasts6so.Shcep - and Lambs 3.40 k Cal ves 2Z0.-: Pigs aBO. NAVAL NEW S LEITH IVlX'l.—Arr iveti on.SUnay tlie Strtra low and /Wanly gun-brigs from a cruizc, with three Oa snish and two Dutch vessels as prizes. Likevvit.e fff° fS'nake , sloop of war from a cruize. Saturday sailed the Childers sloop of .war on a cruize. Pl..vmou7 MAY 2. The "Ohm privateer ° I this port, arrived here this morning from a cruize off the coast of France, by' *hich a confirmation is re' ce . ivecl of -the loss of her boat and crew, consisiiiig of nide persons,, a few days since in a "squall; it is not however,' certain that - the whole perished, but a hope is entertained that some of them may bave'et on shore and been made prisoners. s • • . • Arrived the 'Friends, BEST; Eleanor and Grace, &tow rt, Thomas and William, BROWN; and Tiger , COAfitS, from MEATH ; Rambler, TOZAR, 'llO l / 4 . Weymouth; Mary-, Hall, THOMAS, from New haven ; Industry, SMITE!, from Arundel ; An d Daniel, PX N TER, frOIII BairlSln 4 ple. - • An English merchant ship is arrived, sail to 1? 0 laded with bees wax, &c. captured by a French Pr i " vateer, and re-taken by the, Black Joke lugger. fie f name or any particulars arb notret- known. . • Arrived the -Encounter gun 7 -brig froin a cruize. SHEERNESS, MAY 2.—Arrived his.Maj e sty's brig Martial. • - Came into Harbour his Majesty's sloop Fieche• •- Went out o f Harbour and iailed Ma j es ty's brig Richmond. Arrived his Majesty's brig Censor. Came down the River Thames the Airy bomb .‘ PORTSMOUTH, MAY 3. - -Carile in this day Majesty's ships Placenix from Plymouth, and Dathne from the West Indies. t • Went out of harbour the Tortoise store-ship, 3124 bas sailed to the Eastward. Arrived the Will, FALCO from Hull i and 01 Maria, GERMAN, from London. Sailed the Johanna, DAvti ; Betsey, .foittenoy, for Sunderland; Eleanor! ST,EPI : IENSON ; Borough, PATTERSO.N, for New,easa also the Aancy, BIGRELL, for London. Went out of haioour his Majesty's ship cheer/V, for Spithea4; also the Crescent, Malta. DEAL, MAY 3. , ArriVed his Majesty's ships P' dargus and Zephyr troth and the thco.g as GrenvilleEti,t Indiama n from the River. Yesterday a Cou'rt.of Common C.orincil was h afGoildhuli; wh'ich was omileronily Atiende.i. , t Tire '• to.nunittref of City Lands deliv ere d ITV% exltange. of lad.in St. Gi-orge's-ti`t" - w:t the Goernors Betitlem House, for 1 3 % * sent site or the saniHuspit.ll, which Was read, F f l gYs, 6 to; and tlie.City Seal aifixeu to petitions to 01E. Ho u se of Lords fur effecting that porpp se arid the. li Sher ds accompanied by the Remembrances, were direc t,,d to wait on some Lord in F'arliament i and to ral ue " t hint to present the I for Thel\Tavigi . .tiop cointrot.pe preented a report . 5 the L.bentor o f th e se aro 4l) .3 Frtend,•4ke sutu or 20 guimms,.'whiCh . was read Weed to, and the ChanatAriain ordered to - pay 1 " . same. ••"- Y JAMES TADD, sci. - was appointed a (s e rvo' Christ's Ercspital . , In the room of Mr: FtiftWU ‘l teased. - - • b. Albotian was made, that no person. elected td of the Common C ounc il o r t h e City, who are frt 0 shall be eligible to vote upon•any 1 , 0 4 to. be made by the Co u rt, or b e quoit any Comtl)%o. or Commission tobe apppiut e d by t h e Court, v% was negatived. • - • , Mr. QUIN called the attention QF the C ou rt 'to t Ir subjeCl of the late disturbances in the , i y. served that a Coroner's Jury had r eturne d a vo •-- wilti t l Murder - againsusonie soldiers ho the deittli of a citizen, - by Yhoraing bin on 0 11 - $ return born conveying Sir F ranc i s 4urcteit to 1 0 • Tower. He wished therefore to ask the Lord what pro4eediogs,had been adopted in consecl4c l . 3 of that event. • • fr The LORD MAYOR informed (lie worthy that an inquiry wa s i nst it ut i n g , and when. it no d ‘ e e t r ; ,urinated, the result wou ld b e wa d e known to ti ,Court.. , The Court then adjourned. t ive . Mr. NYAITHkAN gave notice Of a motion-Ma. - to Sir Francis.' - ~.• 0 . 4 N - EkCHANGE . [MAY 4:—This day the• s u i; l l plies of Wheat are again considerable, tine rnue ll , 2 . r , dernand,:and general sales fully at l ast pr i ce s; 1 " - ‘ , / ley at . iittle alteration ; Malt lieu)/ sale ;. very I. ° Pease of the two kiods ; M eans or both sorts 1 - 1 1 3 1/ °ll their prices new Ticks, - 365. to 425. per there are middling supplies of Oafs, and WI samples are q uo t e d rat h er dearer. -Flour 'coutitilje at late prices. • • SHIP N't H'S - LONDON Ptirtti by RICHARD 11 of No: 4, Martlett.ccr.trt, Bowtstreet; and PublitiTi by W!LLIAM A RMIC ER SCRIPPS, South La lton-street, GroFvenor sqUate• At tae StN-OrFicas, No. 11$.1, Strand, wt. ere Advertisements, Orders for the I , lper, Letter: for the Ifdilor, &c. (post-did), must bq addresaad. " .• ortArzsarin, MAY 2. fd Al 0 S,ailed.--the Don Rodri go , R amos, f or R i o Janeiro; --fob. do Menezes, Spi n° l a , f o r Scara; Helen, Napier, and son, Major, for H a y t i ; Malta; Dougal, for Malta 4ll " Young Charles, Cluer, tor Watertiird. • a t X' MAY 3. Sailed—the lack, Burchatn, fot Malta ; ander, Sunds, fur Newfoundland and the William, for•G uad a lo u pe. " Da 9. . • - On the iStli ult.' at Ocichani, in Surrey, aged 66 Y, ars, Mrs. Capon, wife of Mr. Edward. Capon. • , fell 'On the 28th ul t . M rs G add, of Ockliam, in StirreYi het front her horse, and received so much hurt as to occasion death. .. his .salary, it. was " ectnpensation,"- and that tars • the term which the Commissioners: ought' to ha' e used, It Was singular that the . f priliciplj of not calling upon sineLnie patept officers to. do any duty, or in cases where a slight.duty was annexed to the office, to do More thin) they had been...accus tomed to do,. was recognized. by the- Honourable Baronet himself, in an Mt which he .brought_ in. for abolishing offices that were useless, or in part use less. That was the principle upon which the Irish „Government a6ted is the case of Mr. Forward; "and . yet the Right Honourable Baronet now made it a ground of :accusation. When the Right Hon. Baronet and his. friends were in office, they at= tempted' something like. a reform in` this office, they found Mr. Forward with 2' Sinecure. of 5001. a .year,. and the use of the public money. They took from. him, very properly, the use of the public money, but they never thought of making him do the duties- of his office : they left him in. possession .of it, and of the salary. The . Honourable Baronet had talked of pretended re forms having been Made :in. the 'Post Office, but if the.HOn. Bart. had taken the trouble of reading the , - .Appendix-to the Report," he would have found that' he (Mr. Pole) was justified in . speaking of these re forms tit , the manner •he bad done, and that they were real and substantial reforms".[Mr. PoLA then .read an extras trOm - the ilepoit; speaking in.,high terms of the efficient retornis which been etfeaed in 'the , Paq-OffiCe.]--Such was the 'opinion of the Com Missioners upon the Reforms effe6ted, and yet the - fion..Bardnet bact called them pretended Re-. forms • In the course "- , of his speech,- the Hon. Baronet had alluded to something . which the Corn missionerss had brought forward in the slrare of. a charge. They stated,,that . while they were prose cuting their - inquiries, they discovered something im proper hi the 'PostOrlice, and that an attempt ha 4 been ' made to conceal it from them , and . the Hon. Baronet had try!ntigned•the stilajed.as if Go vernment had been apprised :of.the impropriety, and had -Conniv - ed at. the coticealment. It the Riglit Hon, Bart. wislitd / to be infeirmed.of What Govern ment knew relative to this -sobjeat, he bad not - the slightest objection :to lay all the - papers concerning. it before the House, for he had-_ no- wish for concealment on • that, or. any other subjea. At preient, hoyiever,. he would .state - the case • from memory; as corr'ettly as he could :—A rutuour some time ago readied, him, - that there was great. malversation in the department of --the Clerks of the Roads in Ireland, he of course endea voured .to ascertain whether that rumour was well ill-foUnded, and he :received a statement of every , thing which lad been disCoveied respeCtipg their misconduct. There were in Ireland four Clerks Of the Roads, and the chief perquisites of: their office arose from Newspapers sent to diflerent parts of ire.- -land. At the titrie of the Union they..presented a Petition, setting forth, that their ernoluwents had-. been reduced,' and ptlying for cpmeeosation. 'An inquiry was made into the amount 'of their emolu ments', and their salaries were frxeS at the average Of their emoluments forahe three preceding years. The perquisites Which they had liefwesreceivedwere . ordered to be paid into' a fund,- out of . which their salaries were-to be paid e . if that fund .was.deficient; that de6ciency vas to be made up by Geyernment : if there was a surplus, if'of tours- wept to the pub lic' account. In consequence of this arrangement, the Clerks in what they called their receipts into this fond, but it appeared that-there was every year a deficiet cy. Last - ', summer inquiry was made into the business, and it ay as found - that they had been guilty Of' great frauds ; but as, they had before been et tisidered as men of good characters; they were'perreitted, by the'Pest-Office, to restgu their sitnatiOns,' on triaking•go th , , When the Lord Lieutenant fc l und what had been done, he - ordered the whole - matter to be made pub lic The wheffe. case was laid before . the LaW Officer's of the Ciowif, with a oireetien - tu • .them to investigate the buaine!Ss . fully, and to prqse ctite, the parties, if it could be done:— This order 'was - given Within 24. 110111 S atter the pa pers had - reached his hands. •The prosecutio6 did not take place, .because it was he opinion of toe ; Law Officers that it Could' not becarried on with ' r effect. • These. were the circumstances of the Case ; but how it happnetl that they were .not laid betotre the Commissioners he did not knew. Re would not dwell longer upon this ,Subject at_presetit;. his. ob- I ject' 'was unly to sheW that .great reforms had_ been made in that office, that the Government- of Ireland were adopting regulations for making it as eerfeet as possible. A Penny -post had been-esta blished, atter *die pbn of the one in this country, and other improvements had been made. He would not_ take up more of the time of the House, but he trusted that Gentlemen would bear iii mind that this was not a new question; that it had ,been discussed before ;, that the Right - Hon. Baronet had ,taken-ad vantage of his courtesy in not'giving it a dire& ne gative before ; (Sir John Newport said, across the tale, he was afraid.) Afraid !" said Mr. Pole, i,‘ I 3173 sure the Right• Hon. Baronet does not, can not mean to say seriously, that I was afraid to. meet • his Resolution with a tieatire However, if!- he does think that I was 'afrtild upon the former occa sion, I will convince that lam net now, . by j• giving his 'Resolution -a most direct negative,"- Sir J. NEWPORT made a short reply— He read a. letter froM Mr. Forward hiinSelf, in which. it . ap peared that that Gentleman did not consider his si-• tuation a ainectire: . Mr. E. TuoitNioN observed, that ,what he had heard upon, the subject would make him more than ever solicitous' for the abolition of sinecures, and' more. esPecially, of those seemed by patent. PONSUNBY remarked that the word' patent appeared' to carry in the Honourable Gentleman's -1. apprehension some magical power. 'At was merely the etidence of the Great Seal to a Grant, and could not secure that which it was illegal to bestow. A division thee took, place— , • For the Resolution - , 26 Against it - - - - li3. - • - 'Majority - - si [Strangers were not re-admitted; and at Half-past One this meriting the House adjourned.] . . . . , . . ~- MAILS. • • • . . Att RIVED -2 Gottenbprgh, i Waterford. Dttt--;1 Cotter:. burgh, I Lisbon, r Cadiz, 1 llublin,.2 Waterford.. T S U. N. • SOLEM QUISDtCIRS .YA'LStlM,Augii?tT ? L O,N D 0 IV, FRIDAY; MAY 4, 1810. ; • .1: Nert 1 rant : 4 • 4 4z (INXe; el!e .ty I. .‘ct 6( oe, I .'ll 't -:r 2 isi t i e as ,e 4 tler Tea F - 1 I i~Esi tL ti le is Ste r ' ket • 17 11 A ‘ T, ' t,",chor - r , rho Re "e ki r\ r• 1)1,t i f i L ~~ After Tick e