The Sun. — London, England, 1808-05-13 00:00:00

Ia I I :JERI"' Li PARLI.,4II:E...VT. 110USIL OF PEER, §. THURSDAY, `MAY Counsel closed for the Respondents in the Rox bnrgh -Appeal, and Mr. Clarke is to be heard in re ply on 'Monday next, The Bilis on the table were fwwarded a itage cacti. DUCHESS OF - ERUNSWICK 11„ !ti,/ OrdeT of the Day being read for taking into • cowiiLlvration hif Majesty's Message,. Lord LIAWICZBURY obienied, that be could not thhik it.ntcesKiry to detain, the noose with more than a few worth, in order to induct them cheerfully to cohcur in the recomMendation which he had the hnnou'r of delivepog from his Majesty. When their Lordships recollealted thelnilitarytalents and general character of the Duke..of.littinswick ; when they re tollcaed the . shore he bore in a contest, which was not wore the contest of:Prussia than of England ; when they recolleaed his hard fate, his melancholy the in%rftglitx offered even to his remains bOhe 'Wier ofFrake,, all of which must be still • ro' in their. Lordships' recolleetion ; whew they retretcdhow all these sufferings of that Illustrious must have preyed en the feelings of his Illus triouS•ConSort, in whose behalf this recominendatioh came from his Majesty,for the comfort 'and dignity of her age and rank ; when thFyreflected on her near relation to his Majesty, they would surely do with alaci ity what that House was ever ready to do, g iv e eager proof of their nttaehment and atieaion 10.. their Sovereign, in . furthering whatever object they knew be bad .at heart. His Lordship eon ciaiied with moving an Address to his Majesty,' as soring his Majesty ,that House Would cheerfUlly concur in -promoting the purpose of his royal com- runuication. 140rd'Aucti.L'ANn spoke highly in praise. of the virtues of the illuitrinus Duchess, and was sure that every loyal subjb4::Would readily agree to the Ad- dres. Lord LAunEnnALE. rose, not to oppose the Ad. dreSs, but to narrow the.grounds on which alone it ought . to be proposed. The House had nothing now to do with the military talents and career of the Duke of Brunswick, or • with the contest in whiLit .he had last beet, engaged. All the House should, consider wit , , that the Illustrious Person for Millol3l fitich an estal . .lisliment was proposed, was very nearly connoted with his .Majesty; for it' in the 'present State of thi'.Continent eery untOrttinate Pritict3 or Princess were to. seek a retreat and an ei tatilidlment in this Country merely on the score of t it misfortunes, it was not unlikely that we - might .havo..manycandidates for the bounty of the British mit ion. If be was not wrongly informed, this Illus. tr,004 ,Person had already pension.' on Inc Irish Ei.noiliShnient,which, with what was'now proposed, .tvkit it ire under4tood to be ten \thousand per annum, would amount to .an income: of,:14;00ol. a sum which be would not say was either tootreal or top hilt this he Most observe, that the 'House, in it, were wit very consistent; for surely, if tliv Alter th the.&ing, who was only the daughter of a 'Prince 01 Wate4,, was, entitled 'to such art y esa ti.f,:lil)K;oti the d:tiighters of The King of England kiiiikild he entitic,t in least to the same, while it Was I.4novim tho rrineesses were nut allowed even otiv 11:0 rof that sum. This inconsistency, however, be 6ho:ild 4';ivc to the refie'ztionS of their Lord- Atte question W thtM put on the Address, which wtts , agreed` tc.) non. di,Neni. and it was ordered'to be lixestiit4 to his 1,1.,j .:niy by The Lords with the white REVERSIONARY GRANTS. ..On the Motion that the Bin for Suspending the *nal:ir►g of such °rains be reat.l,a third time, Lord LAUI)KIWALK rose und repeated his objee tioncto the MIL It' was wholly different prin. ciple frdm the Bill that had peen introduced in the crimmetteeMent of the Session, and was by no pleans such asAheCloninahte6 4 kinance 4 - iid in • 7 - eentomplation, or as the Country was led to eipett. It that Wtlll all the Committee of Finance thougist of then indeed the people would be disappointed. He li , ndlyhoped to see their iniwirit • penetrate into t!)e gicla departments ~ of Government, the Navy, rh tlv illy, the Ordnance, where great and e4se t i. t .avwss might he tnade ; bUt it' their ohjed 'w'as oldv to some'itittecureplaces,whieh he rather be retained for the reward of bermes, then, instead of promoting economy, It toutal that they would have increased.ei- eoctt. • But mithirig Inore th,pleased hith the ti ii - th.of seeing it was the resultof,a petty cute -1):-Q e ,111 , betWeVil . Who 'WiStieti to secure sucir t aacei, and that porty , by whom the Bill had hitherto hteo, nppo'ed, and who possessed asset:vet itlauence which was .kyowiv to . be able. to make or unmake Allinistt:r:i. It the Coo unit ice did not pm ceed more toriol 1t'10147., of tic itch he b c :ga tO dottht, they would soon forfeit the 6064 opinion hich he WaS it first . disposed to .emertaitt of their iptentioni, I' era HARM/WRY perfcally concurred with the 17,01,40 Lord who spotte last, as to the propriety of retaitting :tome - fund from which his Majesty ber eitable,l to reward ervices where the persons who, rendered services, had not been born to hercdit;iry u ealth. Such a fund, ho thought sinecure places might contribute to sopply. He ditfered widely, .howevet, from that Noble Lord as to hisinsinuations of a compromise. DA not the very nature ot the Constitution depend on compromises 1 ot her .v 'the, could public busitiess be carried on for a moment. praalCßl He thought the House (*Commons had stied wisely in new tuodelliog the Bill ; and that their Lordship:Jae-led wisely ill assenting lb it, fie did not imagine such a Bill was dangerous to the prerogative, or the constitution, or to the dignity of that House ; on the contrary', it was his opinion, that their chief strength often sprung :row a tem polite and seasonable yielding ut some poiiits, and uot in i4II uniform and indiscriminate resistance to the wishes - oi tile: people. LoYdHoct-stiA waS surprised to see the Rouse deserted by , those who had prognosticated such blortnintf, tutSeWl . OlS from' the Bill.'','his, to him, vni , t' a new. proof -that the psitlg,of the present Bill was a matter cif coMproniise, not of thatsog cent- tt o so se of vibiel t t Noblo Lord of pogite had iiiit 1;01 4 i t comprurniv !hilt wils to kOii 'is`l7l c4c 94cr rc -- - lions of that party upon wlionl their power was known to‘depcnd. Lord HAWKESSURY and the LORD CII.INCE4OR disclainied the doarine that the Bill v,-as subversive of the, Constitution, inimical to the prerogative, or repugnant,_ to the dignity of that House. If it 'had any. such tendency; it never Should have had their countenance and support. Lord bAWNLEY did not think the Bill sufficient, but he still should support, and consider it as a pledge of what the House was farther disposed to do, and as a pledge which he'trusted they would redeem. The Bill was then read a third time and passed. The LORD CHANCELLOR informed the .Houk:, that he had just received an intimation from a Noble Viscount (Sidmauth), that the Noble Viscount, tram indisposition, should not be able to attend in his place 1.-morrow, and requesting that the motion which he intended to bring forwatd Might be defer red till Tuesday next. The Order for to-morrow was then discharged, and a new Order made out for Tuesday next.: — Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. THURSDAY, MAY 12. lord YARMOUTH, Chairman of the, New Mahon Ele6tion . Com mittee,'reported that the Sitting Mem ber was duly, elealed, and the Petition_ net frivolous or vexatious. , Mr. R. WARD presented a Petition from Green wick Hospital ; which was referred to a. Committee. Mr. HUstussoti gave notice that he would to inorrow move a Resolution, authorising the Sur veyor-General of the. Crown Lands, and the Chan cellar of the Duchy of Lancaster, in cases 'within the Duchy, to appoint a Commissioner to take care of the interests of the Crown, in all cases of inclo (Atte in - which the rights of the Crown, in relation to Crown Lands, may be implicated. • DISTILL/01014 OF SUGAR. Mr. Yotuce presented a Petition from the Land owners, Corn-masters, and Mahsters of the County of Cambridge, against the proposed measure of ex clusive Distillation from Sugar. . • Mr. Yoaxt hoped that the Chairman and Mem bers of the West India Committee, who had recotu mended that measure,. would not bring forward the motion on Monday, according to the notice that now stood, but that, they would give time for the satisfaCtory examination of the voluminous docu ments that accompanied 04 Report. The im portance of the measure required mature delibera tibn, and he was sure the Committee could not wish to hurry it through the House. Lord BINNING had certainly no wish for im proper haste, but no delay could take place con sistently, with any prospect of) carrying the measure Into etTed this year. The length of the Report and Appendix was chiefly produced by the insertion of former' Reports already well known. He hoped the [lon. Gentleman would be able to make him self master of all that was new in the Appendix against Mbnday., Mr, W. SMITH spoke to the. same effea. That part of the Report which touched on the relative situation of the distiller e, England, Ireland, and Scotland, may. be left in the discussion on Mon day, and reserved for another opportunity. Alter a few words from Sir . JOHN NEWPORT, the St'EAKi..ti put a stop to the conversation as .ir sreinr, and Lord BINNING 7 ,heing again appealed to, declared, that for the reasons already stated by him, he must persist in bringing forward his motion on Monday., A Message from the Lords brOught down the Scotch Ju , ticature Bill agreed upon by their Low ships ; which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on MOnday. Mr. Witi•ta VON broUgthl. in 'a Bill to increase the Duty oti Corks imported ; read a first time, and or dered to be read a second time to-morrow. The EicheqUer Bills Bills were read a third time and passed. Mr MiCLINTOCI{'s PF:tlTeO24. Mr. LESLIE FOSTLithrOqlt in Mr. M'Clintoch's _ Compensation Bill ; which was read a fir 4 tune, Sir JOHN NEWPORT objected the tots measure, ; s opening again the. arrangements made 15} the Cool pehnittioll•Acts, after the. Unti.n, and dins setting an example which may lead to much ahuNe and injury. But if the example should be admit ed, hoi,ed it would lead to the resumptton ht exclusive enliven -8511611s as well as the increase et these that were in stoticient. The CHANCE/4.0g of the 4xcitsattaa allowed the general impropriety of iivening arratigenwoui ady conk Wed. But' itni ea,c tt ..s evident un thelite of the instiument that 10jUbtiCO had been done 'On:the part of the public to, the individual; and surely the public would not take at:Winnow). of its . own wrongs., Mr. Lentz FosTatt supported the justice o f t h e chum utNr: M'Clintoeli. The Bit( being a prioate one, the second reciding cannot take place tot twenty}- one days: . Mr.,' WHARTON brought up the Report or the Committee of Supply. The Resolution for grant ing 10,0001, a year to the Duchess of Brunswick ; was agreed to neat. con.' and a Bill ordered accord- The other ilesoretions were also agreed.. to. In answer to a question from Mr. TtuaNdtY, re lative. to the Ctvil Emablishinent at Sierra' Leone, the*CiOI.CELLOII of the Cu e said, the objet was in bring to trial, on the Coast of Africa, the cases arising on the Coast with respea to Ships tract-, ing in slaves, contrary to the provisions of the At for abolishing that trade. .! tiN \NCI' NEW ANNUITIES. The CHANCELLOR of tl4 ratCHEiatlEll gave po t ice; teat .should to-morrow move, that the House should resolve itself into a Committee, toprui; hider of a proposition to enable the holders of three 04 Cent. stock to convert the some into annuities, by trantiterting their 3tock to tile Commissioners for the Redemption of the National Debt. Mi. PA LM 1:1:1 I )ON. - , PAt.hiltit 1210iictl, that 114: HOLM: Sh01)11,1 re solve itseit into a Committee to consider of the Pe tition of 1 Ir. Paltncr tor further corppeus.itioti 'for the suggestion of the conveyance Ot .I.4aiers by means vt.Nlail Coaches. The 01-IANCELLOR of the. ExettEQUEtt .gave liis conSen‘.4o,the 100110n s 4)11 the ground that a Coln mittea tatiitt afford the wort satiititaory gloat'.,, ac eordin4 to.. the opinion ot the Honourable Move t i . , tor - Utscusiin4 the nwrits of the cue, He begged • however not to,be understood as assenting in' any degree whatsoever to the principle of opening anew an arrangement long closed. The House'llaving gone into the Committee, • Mr. PALMER expressed his acknowledgments for the attention sheWn to him in acceding to that form of discussion which occurred to him. to be most con venient to the nature of the subject, and which, was certainly most convenient personally to him. He thankOilie Committee to whom the Petition had been "referred, for the trouble and diligence' they had bestoWed' in the examination of the case. He trusted that the House would feel the justice of ac ceding to the recommendation ; contained in the Re port, and h e,av i this hope he forbear troubling the Committee with: any statement preparatory to the Resolution he intended, to offer. If, unfortunately, a different opinion should exist,, when he should have heard what was to be urged in opposition to his proposition, he should take an Carly opportunity of stating what occurred to him in reply. His doing so would be attended with mall convenience, and • particularly in abridging the debate. The House would readily make allowance for his feelings on this occasion ; but be begged that pu consideration of that kind . should bias the judgment Of • any man, and that the House, would do by Mr. Palmer just what it would think in justice to itself, if it were in the place of Mr. Palmer. He moved that it was the•opinion of this Committee that a sum of 1.5001. a year for life be granted and paid to Mr. Palmer, in addition to 2i per cent. on the increased revenue of the Post Office above 240,0001. from April 1803, dedu&ing therefrom 3,0001. a year, settled by the arrangement of 17 . 89. Mr, LONG reminded the House, that aConituittee specially appointed had already decided against the merits of a Petition precisely of the same import as this. The ground of this Report was, that Mr.. Pa lmer had failed in the performance of his agreement. Mr. Palmer, was bound to execute the duties of the station to which he was appointed in the Post-office, and he had failed in that point, and on that failure be had been removed. 'Mr. Palmer was first sus pended for refusing to obey the orders of the Post masters-General, for 'endeavouring to throw the Post•ottice into confusion, `to-create unnecessary ex pence, .and to render the delivery of the letters late. The hlonourable Gentlenian cited from one of Mr. Palmer'sletters to his Deputy, some observations on an extraordinary charge made by one Wilson for the Weymouth mail-coach, in .which it was allowed that the charge was infamous, but , yet it was advised that Lord Walsingham, then Postmaster-General, should pay it. Atter this, it was strange how the present Report could recommend Mr. Palmer on the ground of economy. It was advised, also, that this Wilson should be brought into conference with Lord Walsingham, that he might frighten and bambooile his Lordship. The charge of creating confnsion in the Ptist-office, the Honourable Gentleman, thought substantiated by certain arrangements recommended with respect to the inferior persons in the Comps trollers' Office department in ,the Post-office. It was, said in the letter tha't one of the persons instead of doieg his duty in the situation in which he was directed to be placed, would employ his time in quarrelling with his superiors.. The late'delivery of the letters was also mentioned as a possible con sequence of some of the arrangements proposed. After all this• it would hate been highly im prOper that Mr. Palmer should have been con tinued in his empleyment in the Post-Office.— He asserted and argued, that Mr. Palmer 'was not entitled eithpi to the 16601. a year, nor to the in es-eased revenue of the Post Office, without official Service. ' The impression on his Mind', as well as on that of Mr. Pitt, was, that Mr. Palmer accepted the 30001. as a full compensation in lieu of all emolu ment to which lie was entitled, independent of his personal service. Lie was ready to allow that Mr. Palmer's plait had done the public great service, and OD that ground Mr. Pitt had felt great reluctance in dismissing him from his office.' Ott that ground, too, if it were now made a question whether the re muneration given was sufficient, he might be cad-' verse to the entertainment of it. But when the question was brought forward on the dry principie• of the execution or non-execution Ot the.agree ; ;nem between Mr. Palmer and the public, he •must maintain that the case was against Mr. Palmer. Mr. Par.mea stated that the Committee appoint ed by the House in, 1797, was first instructed to quire into tile agreement with Mr. Palter, and at terWards into the causes of his suspension ; but the Chairman of that Committeenvit hoot anylatille tion from, or any conununication with, his fellow Members, moved tor an order from the House to lay beture the House, not a Report digested from the evidence, but the evidence itself. Thus those'docu merits, contained expressions, that, it left un explained, rendered Mr ,Palmer's continuance in office wholly incompatible with a proper administra tion, were placed before the HBuse without the be nefit,of that explanation, and consequently operated to the grievous injury of Mr. Palmer's cause and cha .rader. Mr. Palmer, though he allowed the power to dismiss bins, never acknowledged the right to dispense with the agreement, which, he always con teoded, entiffed'hitm to emoluments equal to those of the office - he had been deprived of. It was strange to allow the claim to go to a Committee, and then to dispute tht judgment and recotnmendation of that Committee, upon the claim. He considered the office as part of the commutation for the'twO and a haliper cent. for life; to Which Mr. Palmer Was entitled tdr the increase on the revenue of the Post 'office, substituted at his suggestion, for a duty on coals, and estimated at mum)). a year. He. came now to the expressions coutained in the letters, and he hoped the explanations lie had to otter would do away .the injurious impression, which, without' such eXplanation, they were calculated to make. Lord Waisingham, though at first adverse to Mr. Palmer's plan, acknowledged afterwards the high publio ser vice it had rendered, and, declared him well deserving • of the compensation he had received. But when Mr. Palmer was in Ireland, carrying into effect the ex tension of his plan to that cocutry, Lord_Walsing . harp made an improvident contract with Wilson for . the conveyance of the Weymouth Mail. Mr. Palmer looked upon this as' an improper interference , with the exclusive controul which he ought to have over every thing connected with the' execution oChis Han ; and he wished that this„person should-give Lord Walsingham a specimen of what he had to expat from such. interference, and from coming la! Foutad with such peopl. Mr. Palmer 114 traEted for the conveyance of" the Weymonth Mail . at 81. a ray. The contraas made before and after - • be bad the management of them varied from 12 1 .. tO 181. and 211. With respea to the encouragement to persons not to dO their duty, that arose from abuses in the office, which Mr. Palmer thought would be more speedily corr e&ed by being brought to a crisis. The delay in the deliverance of the let ters arose from an experiment for the diminution of ! the number of-Clerks. ..,.Mr. Palmer •direeted dwarf • Clerks to be reduced, unless that should cause a de- [ lay in the delivery ofletters ; 'but by no means to re- 1i t duce them - if such a delay should arise. Some dis putes bud arisen between Mr. •Palmel', who wisbed 1r to ha ve t h e execution of his own plan, and the Post . masters General, who wished to have the controul : • of every department under their offices • and this was . 4 the causeasithe dissensions which ended in the dis- 1 . missal of 'Mr. Palmer. The Postmasters General being changed so frequently, insomuch that there were sevettof them in five years, could not under stand the business, without - consulting the old see-' vants in the Post-Offices, who were hostile to -the plan of Mr. Palmer. Could any thing prove more strongly Mr. Palmer's independence of the Post- ~ , master than this letter ? The - year after his am pension the ' expense of the office exceeded by . 1 7 ,0001. the, expense of any year during his ma nagentent. All the evidence on this subiea has been already referred to a Committee of the House of Commons, who in their Report had • confirmed every thing . Mr. Palmer bad asserted. As to the amount of the demand, if it were proved to be just, ' he trusted that that would make no difference in the decision of the House. The-advantages which the Country :had derived from Mr. Palnier's ingenuity and industry were very considerable. He put it to ,' ' his Majesty's Ministers whether, if the Post-Office were in the same state now as that in which Mr. Palmer found it, they would not willingly make the •• same agreement as had been before with him. He had been recommended to compromise the subjea, but he had refesed to do this, unwilling to sacrifice at once the interests of Mr. Painter and the honoUt of the Country. From their parent, and from their parent alone, Mr. Palmer's children wished to re ceive tbat to which they considered that he was justly entitled ; • and they would rather exist on the remnants of his fortune than receive a pension where they claimed a right. . Mr. Rosa Observed, that he bad never witnessed in that How a claim urged .with more propriety ei manner than that ,which had been brought forward by the Honourable Gentlentin, and nothing ban i strong sense of his public 'duty could induce hitn' to rise in Opposition to it. He entered into a detailed, answer to 'the Hon. Gentleman's arguments; in which he stated that Mr. Painter had been dismissed because belied in a letter declared, that rather than lose his 30001. a year, be would allow the wh4 llo office to go into confusion. Mr. CRoCKER, as a Member of the Committee to . whoin Mr. Palmer's claims: had been referred , declared it tobe his fi xed opinion, that Mr. Palmer Was to have had the two and a hail per cent. on the increased revenue of the. Post-office, .not as a salary, i but as a rewatd for that extensive elan which he bad devised, -and in the execution of which be had risked his health, his fortune, and his eharatter.--- He differed, however, from that pirt of the RepOt of the Committee which related to the 1500.1. a y.qt , conceiving that that was e salary for services to be performed, and that Mr. Palmer having so coo. dusted himself as to occasion his dismissal from Office, had forfeited the 15001, a year, but by iio, rule of common justice could Its in any way be s'il 'l tit have forfeited the per coinages No tslnporaff indiscretion of Mr. Palmer ought to induce ill House to deprive hint of the emoluments which he . • 'had received for the advantages for which the coon` try were indebted to him, and which th e y were at that moment enjoying. .The faith of tie country had been pledged to Mr. Palmer, and the pledg. ought to be redeemed. He. would ,move as an ameniment to omit, in the.kivlution propoaed by the' Honourable Gentlemati,' Oe words that related to the 15001. a year; but SO rot l yjneed wa y b e of the ondeniabie. justice -of- Mr. Palmer's claims in (she -respects, that should the amendment be neetive,A - tit the should teel himself bound in . h o n o ur to vote ' 4 the original question. - , • The CHANceI.LOR of the Excireaustt declare 4 that it rim Resolution .moved were oclupteo, the Committee would esieblish a most mischievous Pfe: cedent. He ;Mewed that Mr. Palmer's case nest:4'os attention, and that if his claim were just, slid amount or it ought to Warn bar 'to his .success.," 'When therefore'ho stated•that the sum was not leis than 97,6901. for arrears, and I O,OOOL a year for 4 14 .for doing nothing / he did not make that statement to withhold the Committee from doing justice, bit , to inducelitern not precipitately, or 4roto a suatea impulse-:of mistaken feeling, to ccunply with a dee =rid founded in an erroneous coneeption of the subjea. He cordially subscribed to ;110 opinion of his Right Hon. Friend, with respea to the prorl manner in which the Hon. Geatiernan had 'reale° the question. Ile never saw -a Measure at tins sort introduced in a, way that entitled the ititroducet tons ' more respectful, kind, and indulgent attentian; but basing said this, he was bound in duty to prod ,seed to state his deliberate reasous for thinking that Mr. Palmer ought to have no more titan what he had already received. If the case stated by the Hatt. Gentleman who had just sat down could be made cl; by evidence, then ' indeed Mr. Painter's deniatal would be a well founded one ; but the evidence %vela directly the other way, mid probed indisputably thot : both•the salary and the allowance were annexed to the office, and that haviog forfeited the office, Mr' Palmer of course 14feited the emolument attache ° to ik To'prove this he . repeated Mr. Pitt's pore ]. . evidence, given on this subjet on a former ucca.,o" ' in which that kintlion. Gentleman, whose acct. racy in ;the 'relation of matters 'of this descriatien Wil' not one of the least of Ilk great qualities, h a d d e ,: o rear that the alloWance was annexed w the appointureil t : Even if.the appointinelit had been' ma de under ti,_ l 7 . Great Seal, be contended that by Mr, Paltuer's let sequent.conduct, he would ..Lave tOrteited the grar t and that the Letters Patent Lutist oe revoked. 1 . . was nut possible to separate the salary centage. The terms tu - which they werz% coill'a .ut upon hit...Palm : 4 proved, that they 'Were givol I s ',. t only. as a reward for what lie had already stone, 1 7 . , , also' as an incitement to a continuance or his OW tips for the public s ervice. the . I '. After the speech ache CHANC44.I.O I ' of truirl site o r 1 ' - , lid F