The Sun. — London, England, 1838-07-28 00:00:00

doing so he thought it necessary to state the circumstances connected with that question. He had avoided every thing like argument and reasoning. His object was not to argue, but merely to ask a question. He understood that a treaty olensive and defensive had been entered into between the Courts of Persia and Russia; and he also understood that an expedition had been fitted out for Bombay, which was likely to inter fere with the friendly relations existing between England and Persia. He wished to know from the Noble Lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, whether the objects of that expedition were such as to justify Persia in placing herself in hostile relation towards England ; and whe ther the Government had been informed of any treaty between Russia and Persia of the nature of that to which he had alluded ? Lord PALMERSTON—With regard to the Right Hon. Gentleman's first question, would merely refer him to the statement of his ;Right Hon. Friend the President of the Board of Controul. With regard to the treaty to which he had alluded, he (Lord Palmerston) bad received no information on the subject. Sir R. PEEL--An armament had proceeded from the British domi nions, and he conceived that when the House was going into Commit tee of Supply was the proper time to ask what its nature and ob jects were. He wished to know whether the armament had been sent at the solicitation of the Court of Persia, or whether it went with a hostile intention towards that power? Lord PALMERSTON said his Right Hon. Friend the Prendent of the Board of Controul had stated on a former occasion that the ex pedition, consisting of a small force (about a battalion), had gone to Bombay by order of the Governor. General of India, for the purpose of protecting British interests in connection with the Resident at Bushere. Sir R. PEEL begged to ask the Noble Lord what were the circum stances that placed British interests in such jeopardy ? Lord PALMERSTON said that question ought to have been put to his Right Hon. Friend the President of the Board of Controul. Sir R. PEEL—As a Member of this House, on going into a Committee of Supply, I put the question again. In what manner are British in. terests in such danger as to demand the presence and protection of a battalion of the array at Bushere ? I surely have a perfect right to de. mand an answer to such a question. Lord PALMERSTON said, that consistent with his public duty, he found it impossible to give any other answer. If the Right Hon. Ba ronet had any motion to make upon the subject, he (Lord P.) would be ready to meet him. Sir R. PEEL was perfectly aware that on many occasions there were reasons of State policy which rendered it imprudent to answer certain questions. When those were pleaded he was never found to press the subject. The answer now given was that which ought to have been given at first. VERA CRUZ. In answer to a question from Mr. MACKINNON, Lord PALMERSTON said he had given notice of the Blockade of Vera Cruz, the moment he was made acquainted with it by the French Government. It was established by the officers on the station at their own discretion, which accounted for the delay. It was usual for countries, out of courtesy, to give notice when they sent out orders for a blockade ; but in this case they were conditional, and dependent upon discussions upon the spot. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON complained that the Captains of British ships were not allowed to embark bullion on board their ships, which was a great hardship upon the merchants of this country, inasmuch as the balance of trade was much against Mexico. Lord PALMERSTON said the Honourable Gentleman knew per fectly well that the French Government were entitled to establish a blockade, and that it was only as a matter of courtesy to the English Government, that an exception was made to the packets carrying out correspondence between this country and Mexico. Two questions were then put to the French Government; first, whether they would permit those pagkets to convey specie belonging to merchants; and, next, whether they would permit them to carry specie belonging to the English Government. The French Government Re ceded to the latter request, but declined to allow packets to convey specie belonging to individuals ; and certainly the permitting packets to pass at all was an indulgence which we had no right to expect. POOR LAWS. Mr. G. PALMER then rose to move for a copy of a letter, dated the Sth of January, 183 S, addressed by the Poor_ law Commissioners to the Assistant Commissioners, with which certain proposed orders for the appointment of Assistant Overseers were sent. In doing this he was not influenced by party spirit. The question was one which equally in. terested every individual within or without that House.--Hear.) He did not desire to see the repeal of the Poor Law, but he felt that great amendments were necessary to allow it to continue the law of the country ; and he trusted the Committee, which had been so long sitting, would at last produce something effectual and satisfactory to the coun. try. The erection of extensive buildings throughout the country was not only an extravagant but useless expenditure of the public money, to say nothing of the separation of families; and if they should be used to any extent in that capacity, it would be found necessary to have soldiers to keep the occupants in order. He would not now enter into any details as to the management of the poor. He had a higher principle in view. He looked to the effect which the dictatorial power of the Commissioners must have on the rights of the community. With this feeling it was his desire to bring this question for. ward before the Irish Poor-law Bill passed into a law. The lion. Member then referred to several statements which had ap peared in the public papers, for the purpose of making out his case. The powers given to the Poor-law Commissioners were incompatible with the liberties of the British subject, and were exercised in a most unconstitutional manner. The liberties of the people were never in such danger as when they themselves became supine. If the people of England were not on their guard, they would ere long have little to look for. He had had no reason to believe the paper he wished for would have been objected to by the Noble Lord, or the Right Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and it was only when he had on a former occasion moved for its produc tion, that he found there was a determination to oppose its production. He hoped the Noble Lord would not on this occasion shelter himself behind any plan of expediency. The Hon. Member concluded by moving his amendment. Sir C. B. VERE seconded the amendment. Lord J. RUSSELL had the same objection to the production of this document as when it was before asked for. a • The motion was then rejected without a division. The House then went into a Committee of Supply. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER morel that a sum of 27,4691. should be granted for the support of the British Museum. Sir R. PEEL said that the report on the table of the House furnished most gratifying and ample information with respect to this establishment. He had lately had an opportunity of visiting it, and he witnessed with gratification the increased interest taken by the public in that establish ment. On the occasion to which he alluded he saw a great body of per sons indiscriminately admitted, and he was happy to say, that they con. ducted themselves with the greatest propriety and decorum.—(Het r.) Mr. S. O'BR lEN suggested that some arrangement should be entered into with the Zoological Society, to enable the public to visit to Zoologi cal Gardens free on one day in the week. !Ir. W A It BURTON took occasion to call the attention of the Government to the fact that two most valuable geological collections were now in the market, and it would be most desirable that some arrangement should be made to secure these collections to the public. Mr. HUME concurred in the satisfaction expressed by the Right Hon. Varonet at the increased interest taken by the public in this esta blishment, and at the gratifying testimony borne by the Right Hon. Baronet to the decorum and good conduct of its numerous visitors. He thought it would be desirable that the Museum should be open to the public one additional day in each week, and it would be a great means of preventing the working classes from wasting their time in public.houses on a Sunday afternoon, if they were affursied access to the Museum on that de:a Col. SIBTHORP thought some consideration ought to be had for the officers and servants of the Establishment. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER admitted the impor tance of acquiring the two collections alluded to, and he thought it highly desirable to keep the public opinion in favour of grants of this kind. He had the highest respect fir the names attached to the me morial, and should give the subject the consideration which it de served.—)Hear.) Sir R. PEEL said with respect to the time of admission the Com. mittee had made very liberal arrangements. They had opened the Museum on Easter and Whitsun weeks, and had given the public great additional facilities in other respects. The Museum was at present open to the public during three days in each week. Now it should be recollected that there were two objects to be kept in view; one was the admission of the public, and the other to give scientific persons the op portunity of improving themselves free from the bustle which was inse parable from a crowded attendance. For this latter object two days were set apart, namely, Tuesday and Thursday, and the remaining day, Saturday, was set apart for the purposes of cleaning. With respect to an additional day, and to appointing admission on Sundays, he had a strong opinion on that subject. He would not disturb the unanimity that prevailed by expressing that opinion ; but he thought as one reason against that proposal that the officers of the establishment required that day for rest. The Right lion. Baronet warmly concurred in the im portance of securing to the public the two collections alluded to, for if the opportunity was lost it might never occur again. He hoped also that the Right lion. Gentleman opposite ;the Chancellor of the Exche quer) would take into consideration the state of the buildings, and see that it would be the best economy to bring them to a state of completion as soon as possible. After a short conversation, the vote was agreed to. On the next vote being proposed, Mr. C. LUSFIINGTON called the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to a motion which he had intended to bring forward on going into Committee of Supply. He wished to know when it would be com. petent for him tobring forward that motion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it would be com petent for him to do so on bringing up the Report. The following votes were then agreed to :-10,000/. for the payment of Sheriffs, and to make good certain deficiencies and pay the salaries of certain officers in the Court of Exchequer. 80,0001. to defray, for the year 1838, certain charges which had hitherto been defrayed out of the county rates. The next item was 10,0001. to enable her Majesty to relieve the dis tressed Poles now in this country. Lord SANDON wished to say a few words as to the amount of this grant. It would be remembered that it was in 1836 it was first agreed on to vote a sum of 10,0001. for the relief of the Poles. At that time the number in this country was somewhere about four hundred, and it was then intimated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the relief should be granted only to such Poles as were in the country at that time. Since that time the number of Poles in the country had, from various causes, increased—a c insiderable portion had been let loose by a neighbouring country on our shore, so that there were now two hundred of those unfortunate individuals in the country who were totally ex. eluded from Parliamentary relief. He thought it was unworthy of our generosity to leave this small number excluded from the benefits of the grant, which was not of sufficient amount to invite increased immigra tion. It was a remarkable fact, that in this the dearest country in Europe, the grant had always been less than in France, at least to every rank above that of a private soldier. Its Russia and Austria also the Governments had been more liberal than ours. In fact, the English scale was the lowest in Europe.—(Hear, hear.) While England gave 10,0001. what had France done ? To be sure, the Poles had, perhaps, , grea ter claims on France. Fra n c e had gi v en 100,000/.— once 160 ,0001., but never less than 100,0001., and even the small Canton of Berne had given 4,000/ He maintained that our Government had not come for ward in the manner becoming our character and resources. The parti_ cular facts of the case he was now urging on the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer were these :-1300 men were now living from day to. day on the precarious relief afforded by public charity ; and it was with deep regret he saw many honourable and high-minded men re. duced to such a dependence for subsistence.—Hear, hear.) He did not like to see senators, members of the Diet.men distinguished in the annals of their native country for their conduct in the Council or in the field, reduced to such a state as to become the subjects of puffing advertise. merits, and obliged to resort the voluntary services of foreign singers for existence. He would entreat his Right Honourable Friend to do something for these poor men. They had made every effort to obtain food by their labour, on railroads and public works. Colonels and others of high rank might be found werking as common labourers, but being strangers, speaking a strange language, and having few facilities of obtaining employment, the great majority were left to wander starving about the streets. In the Police reports accounts would be found of Poles taken in the act of sleeping under our porticos and at,eur hall doors, and such other places of shelter as chance threw in their way. There was only one point more to which he would allude. Attempts had teen made to prejudice the public mind against the Poles, by the fact of twenty or thirty misguided men having published placards and in. terfered at a late election. He did not mean to vindicate the conduct of those individuals, which all must concur in thinking highly im proper—(l-fear, hear) —but surely that was no reason why two hundred "lien, totally unconnected with that conduct, should be left to perish. Mr. O'CONNELL said that if the Noble Lord had proposed a distinct vote he (Mr. O'Connell) should have been exceed: ;isle anxious to second him, but as that could not be done consistently with the usages Of the House, he must only content himself with pressing OR the Chan. cellar of the Exchequer to accede to the enlargement of the vote. The only objection that could be urged against the proposed increase was, that it would be creating an inconvenient precedent for encouraging the exiles from political opinions. Why, the last century afforded several precedents of that kind, and was Poland—the land to which the poet alluded in the beautiful lines— " Sarmatia fell unwept without a crime," . . . _ and which lines, although poetical, were strictly true—Poland, that fell a victim to the crimes and perfidy of others—was she to be excluded from relief?—(Hear, hear.) Neither need they look to the past as affording motives for making this grant. The future was pregnant with prospects which made it expedient that we should have Poland and the Poles on our side. From Gibraltar to the Persian Gulph events were approaching which made the alliance of a brave people a thing not to be despised.—(Hear, hear.) If we now refused this paltry sum of 5,0001. we should lose all the gratitude we had acquired by former grants. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that there never was a more painful duty imposed on an individual Member than that of bringing back the House from the impulses of generosity and com passion to the oonsiderations of right and of justice. He had, how ever, one cause of rejoicing, and that was, that he was not now called on to defend the withholding of the grant altogether. The question, he was happy to say, was not one of principle but of degree ; and he was also rejoiced to say, that he now, for the fifth time, had had the honour of proposing the grant. Now, the point to which he wished to call the attention of the House, and which had been alluded to by his Noble Friend, was, that when the grant was first solicited from Govern ment the gentlemen who consulted Earl Spencer on the subject un dertook that the extent of relief required should be for the Poles at that period actually in the country. They not only consented to this stipu lation, but stated their determination themselves to resist any attempt at infraction. He did not wish to press this point more than it de served ; but he had a right to make the House acquainted with facts—facts which an Honourable Gentleman present could attest. This was in the year 1834. Afterwards, in consequence of the events at Cracow, new calamities overtook the Poles, and a new class became exiles from their native land, and although they formed no part in the stipulation, the Government overlooked the fact and relieved them. From emigration ancLother causes the original number had greatly de creased. It was at first 485, but, in 1835, 116 emigrated. This, of course, caused a great reduction, and the whole balance was applied to the assistance of the rest. What was it they were now called upon to do ? Were they prepared to commence an interminable system of grants ? No matter what brought political exiles here. Were they to pledge the country to provide for their wants ?—(Hear, hear.) It was but justice, however, to say thatthe unfortunate men deserved our warmest sympathy. No men could have acted with more prudence, more honesty, or more resignation than they had done since their arrival in this coun try. Indeed, their value in the field was only exceeded by their good conduct and resignation under misfortunes.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Therefore, it was not any want of sympathy that induced him to oppose the increase ; because he knew that if in 1828 they went beyond the principle originally proposed, they would not know where to stop.— (Hear.) In conclusion, he must say that, having consulted his colleagues on the subject, it was his painful duty to rest contented with the grant as it now stood. Sir S. CANNING—After the eloquent manner in which the subject had been treated by his Noble Friend, should not trouble the House farther than by stating his concurrence in the sentiments of that Noble Lord, and his satisfaction at hearing the tribute to the good conduct of the Poles, which the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had so well expressed. Mr. BRISCOE ;nil he mourned for the decision to which the Right Hon. Gentleman had come, because he thought the reputation of the country was involved in it. This was no party or political question, but one of need and destitution—a destitution of the extent of which the House was most probably not aware. He had taken some pains to ascertain the facts, and he found the actual number excluded from par ticipation in the grant to be 189. Of these 17 were field officers— (Hear)-1'26 officers, and 36 soldiers, and 10 the wives and children of soldiers.—(,Hear, bear. This was the exact number of persons who were depending on the casual bounty of the public, and of these some hail been many days without food. The increase asked was a mere trifle. He would rather see the 5,0001. deducted from the expense of the Coronation than refused on such an occasion as the present. Mr. W. J. DENNISON hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would see the propriety of acceding to the proposition. Sir F. BURDETT would not do justice to his own feelings if be did not cordially suplsort the increase of this grant. Mr. WALLACE said he merely rose to add his testimony to the ex pression of sympathy so generally expressed, and to add his conviction, that the other inhabitants of that hitherto unconquered country to which he belonged, would one and all cheerfully acquiesce in the addi tional grant sought fur a portion of a brave nation who had the mis fortune of being conquered. Sir R. H. INGLIS said that when the smallness of the sum was taken into consideration, and when he saw that alt those who differed so widely upon other subjects were almost unanimous upon this, he did not think the additional grant would be refused. Mr. HUME was of opinion that the increase of the grant would meet the general concurrence of the country. Mr. O'CONNELL would merely ask two questions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The first was, whether he did not perceive that the wish for the increase of the vote was unanimous ; and next, whether, that being so, it was not worth his further consideration? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted that the sympathy of the House was in favour of the vote, and it was a sympathy which he would by no means endeavour to suppress. What he feared, however, in yielding to the influence of such sympathy was, that there might be in future an indefinite increase made in votes of this nature. With respect to the opinion of his Ilon.Friend the Member for Kilkenny, the Hon. Gentleman should remember that he himself, when this question was on a former occasion brought forward by Lord Dudley Stuart, objected to too great an outlay of public money.—(Hear, hear.) Ile (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would by no means say anything calculated to prejudice the cause of the Polish refugees, and he felt that the general unanimity of the House was a matter for the serious con sideration of the public.—(Hear, hear.) In pursuing the course which he did pursue he was but discharging an arduous and painful duty.— (Hear, hear.) He hoped the House would give him credit for tine mo tives with which he acted, for he felt in his position that in tine disposal of the public money he ought not to be actuated by any feeling as to the popularity of the claim, but whether the disposal of it in a particular way was or wa, not Pap the benefit of the public.—(Hear,hear.) Mr. P. HOVs Alt D supported the increase of the grant. Lord SANDON said that, after what had fallen from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and tine promise given that the matter should be taken into consideration, Joe should withdraw his amendment. Mr. WYSE hoped the generally-expressed opinion of the House would he attended to, and that British economy would never interfere with the claims of humanity, when seconded by the voice of freedom. Mr. T. ATTWOOD represented a large community, and was sure that not a pauper inn Birmingham would oppose the increase of the grant. The original vote was agreed to. The sum of 6001. was granted to the Trustees of the British Museum, for the purchase of additional antiquities. 50,0001. was voted to defray the expenses of the Steam Navigation Company to India, by way of the Bed Sea. 9.,0781. was voted for the Civil Establishment of the Bahama Islands. 4,4401. I 3s. 4d. was granted for defraying the Civil List of the Bermuc:as. 3,0701. was agreed to for the expenses of the Civil List of Prince Edward's Island. 9,930/. 13s. 10d. was voted for the Civil Establishment on the Western Coast of Africa. 11,7901. IkAs. fid..was granted for defraying the expen:es of the Eccle. siastical Establishment in the British North American provinces. Mr. PAKINGTON objected to the amount as totally insufficient for its purposes. If the Revenue of the late Bishop were divided, it would allow 1,500/. for each Bishop (Montreal and Quebec), ai:d this arrange. ment would, he had no doubt, give general satisfaction to the Canadian people. Canada had strong claims upon England, and he hoped that in the most important of all concerns, that Colony would not be neglected. Lord HOWICK said the manlier in which the Clergy of Canada were formerly paid was founded in error. They had received their re muneration from the sum which was voted for the army extraordinary expenses, and this was of course without the cognizance of Parliament. The Government had long given attention to the subject. Her Majesty's Government, considering the state of matters in Canada, did not think it expedient that this country should pay fur the religious instruction of the inhabitants of that Colony. Canada seas untaxed—it was a rich and flourishing community —and therefore it was unfair that the heavily taxed people of England should bear such a burthen as the Hon. Mem. tier's motion would impose on them. Sir A. DALRYMPLE supported the motion. Mr. WALLACE said the Church of England had been the curse of Ireland, and would be the curse of the Canadas, if established there. Mr. GLADSTONE made a few observations, which were inaudible in the gallery ; but they were believed to b!, in animadversion on the observation of the Hon. Member for Greenock. Mr. HUME had never heard so much nonsense as he did in the speech of the Honourable Member who mooted the question on the subject of destitution in Canada. Ile should oppose the motion. Mr. GOULBURN thought that there was a solemn obligation on the country to see that good and sufficient religious instruction was pro_ vided for her Colonies : and where religious establishments were in their infancy, we were bound to succour and uphold them until they attained strength and maturity. Mr. BAINES opposed the motion. Mr. ELLICE deprecated the observation made use of by the Hon. Member for Greenock in regard to the Church of England.--;Hear, hear.) He also denied the truth of the assertion of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, that there was no spiritual destitution in Canada. The Hon. Member concluded by supporting the motion. Mr. HOBHOUSE said, that never until to-night had religious discord been mixed up with the grievances of Canada ; and that it would net be too much to suppose that from henceforward it would, as in Ireland, form an element of local strife. Sir H. INGLIS denied that the present pecuniary arrangements for the maintainance of the Church in Canada were sufficient for its effective support, and appealed to the number of petitions presented from that country advocating a better provision ; the necessity of which he contended for as essential to the peace, good order, and harmony of the social edifice in that colony. Mr. O'CONNELL objected to the disparity which existed between the allowances to Roman Catholic Bishops in Canada : one, whom he did not know, the Bishop of Ouebec, had 1,0001. a year; the other he did know, the Bishop of Newfoundland , who had 73 /. He p assed a high eulogium on the latter, whose zeal for the spread of religion seemed to exist in the inverse proportion to the payment. The Bishop of Quebec might be a very good man, but giving him 1,0001. a year was just the way to corrupt one; and if they added the salaries of some deaconries and archdeaconries, it would only serve to make him worse. They ought to leave the Canadian Protestant and Catholic clergy to their own resources, and let them starve if they did not do their duty to their flocks. Endowments were the root of all evil in churches, and the sooner thoy were dispensed with the better If the House would join him in reducing tho Protestant establishment in Canada, he would vote against the 1,0001. to the Catholic Bishop. He had no respect for establishments founded on Acts of Parliaments, and had very little re spect for Acts of Parliament themselves. Lord SANDON complained of the inconsistency of the Hon. Gentle- man, who not long since advocated the propriety of giving glebe lands to the Roman Catholic Priesthood of Ireland. The same perverse spirit was displayed by all classes of Dissenters who urged the argument of the voluntary principle against the Church of England, yet were always ready to seize on any fund or grant or gift they could obtain for their own sects. It well became him now to endeavour to throw con tempt on the laws established by Act of Parliament, for that had been his constant occupation out of doors. Mr. O'CONNELL said that the Noble Lord had misrepresented him. He never said that the Roman Catholic Clergy of Ireland should be given glebe lands. Lord SANDOX—I heard you, anti I read it in your letter. Mr. O'CONNELL said that a portion of his letter had been taken and used very unfairly. He had wished that the Roman Catholic Clergy should he permitted to purchase glebe lands for themselves.— (Cries of " Oh.") He wished that they should be permitted to follow the example of the Roman Catholic Bishop of Clogher in that respect. He had merely stated that proposition in accordance with the views of some Roman Catholic Bishops then in London. As for himself he hated such an endowment—he abhorred it—he had no hopes of the slightest good from it, and he should strenuously oppose such a gra. tuitous endowment of the Irish Roman Catholic Clergy to the day of his death.—(Laughter.) Sir G. GREY said that all discussion on the subject was at present premature. ature They should wait till Lord Durham had time to matu re his measures, and he implored the House not to disturb the existing ar. rangernents. In any new arrangement it would be only just to include a provision for the members of the Scottish churches in that colony. He deprecated an y intermeddling with the endowments of the Roman Catholic Clergy in Lower Canada, which was at present very consis ,%; ai.ip!iett fur'hc•fince of tho objects of that Church ; hut, ,file it was maintained in such atnuence , th e Yrotcstant and Pr e sb yt er i a n Churches would expect corresponding consideration. THE SUN, LONDON, The vote was then agreed to. 6,1491. ls. Gd. for the settlement of West Australia. —Agreed to. 19,1551. for the expense of the Indian Department in Canada Agreed to. 17,6171. for the Governors, Lieutenant-Governors, and others in the West India colonies.—Agreed to. 9621. for expenses of the civil service of Heligoland.—Agreed to. 69,9501. salaries and allowances for the special justices in the West India islands.—Agreed to. 30,0001. for expenses of the local Legislature of the West Indian islands, and providing for the religious and moral instruction of the emancipated negroes. After a few observations from Sir GEORGE GREY and some other Members, the vote was agreed to. The sum of 3,871/. 16s. 3d. was voted for the salaries of emigration agents. The sum of 16,0001. was voted for the expenses of the civil establish. melt at St. Helena. 4,9001. was voted to defray the expenses of the civil service of Nova Scotia. The sum of 8,600/. was voted for the expenses of the Rideau Canal in Canada. The House then resumed, and the resolutions having been reported, the Chairman asked leave to sit again to-morrow. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at a Quarter to One o'Clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, JtLr 27. Their Lordships sat to-day at Four o'clock. ROYAL ASSENT. The Royal Assent was given to-day by Commission to the Glass Du ties Bill, Administration of Justice (New South Wales) Bill, Members Qualification Bill, Judges Jurisdiction Extension Bill, Waterloo An nuties Bill, Vagrants Act Amendment Bill, Slave Vessels Captured Bill, Slave Trade (Sweden) Bill, Slave Trade (Hans Towns) Bill, Slave Trade (Netherlands) Bill, Dean Forest Encroachments Bill, Dean Forest Mines Bill, Western Australia Bill, Suitors Money Bill, Edinburgh and Leith Agreement Bill, Grand Jury Cess (Dublin) Bill, Oaths to Wit nesses (Ireland) Bill, County Treasurers (Ireland) Bill, Linen Manu facturies (Ireland) Bill, Kingstown and Dublin Harbour Bill, Festiniog Railway Bill, Eastern Counties Railway Bill, Birmingham and Derby Railway Bill, Farringdon Street (London) Bill, Newquay (Cornwall) Harbour Bill, Fishguard Harbour (No. 2) Bill, Glasgow Waterworks Bill, Lough Swilly and Lough Foyle Drainage Bill, Pembroke Ferry Bill, Blackheath, &c., Small Debts Bill, Barnsley Small Debts Bill, Ashby De-la-Zouch Small Debts (No. 2) Bill, National Loan Fund Life Assurance Society Bill, Wortley, Armley, and Burnley Road Bill, Dudley Hill and Killinghall Road Bill, Smith's Estate Bill, Gray's Estate Bill, All Souls College (Oxford) Estate Bill, Legh's Estate Bill, Paddington Estates Bill, Sudbury Town Lands Bill, Haverfordwest In. closure Bill, Batthyany's Naturalization Bill, Grohte's Naturalization Bill. The Commissioners were the LORD CHANCELLOR, the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, and the Earl of SHAFTESBURY, The LORD CHANCELLOR took the Chair shortly before Five. POOR-LAW BILL. The following noblemen were appointed to conduct a conference with the House of Commons on the amendments to the Irish Poor.law Bill : The Earl of Shaftesbury, Earl of Liverpool, Earl of Charleville, Viscount Hawarden, Bishop of Hereford, Lord Hatherton, and Lord Portman. On their return, The Earl of SHAFTESBURY stated that their Lordships had agreed to certain, and disagreed to others of the amendments made by the Commons. BEER ACTS. Viscount MELBOURNE presented a petition from the brewers and beer sellers of Warrington against any amendment of the Beer Act. SPAIN. Marquis of LONDONDERRY moved for copies of correspondence between Sir De Lacy Evans and others, relative to the claims of the Spanish Legion.—Agreed to. The Noble MaaQuis then presented a petition from Mr. O'Malley Irwin, praying that his case might be considered. The Noble Marquis entered at some length into the statements of the petitioner, but was al most entirely inaudible. It appeared that Mr. Irwin had been tried by direction of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland for forging the signature of an Assistant Barrister; and the petition complained that the then Secretary of Ireland (Lord Ilatherton, late Mr. Littleton) did not ap pear at the trial, and that certain letters were not produced. Lord I-lATHERTON said the petition (which was the ez parte re presentation of the petitioner) was a very ill-advised attempt to revive the recollection of a transaction utterly disgraceful. Lord BROUGHAM protested against the presentation of a petition from a person convicted on a criminal trial.----(Hear, hear.) COPYRIGHT. Lord BROUGHAM said a learned and eloquent friend of his (Mr. Sergeant 'Pafford) had introduced into the other House a Bill for the extension of the rights of authors with regard to the copyright of their works. He (Lord Brougham) did not entirely approve of that Bill, but considered its object most desirable; and with this view he had prepared a Bill which had received the approbation of many gen tlemen in the profession of the law, and which facilitated appeals to the Privy Council, by authors or assignees of copyrights, for prolongation of the period of copyright. He now laid this Bill before the House, and begged that it be printed. —Agreed to. IRISH POOR-LAW. Mr. BeCNAL appeared at the Ear, and communicated that the House of Commons (lid not insist en the amendments proposed by them to the amendments of their Lordships to the Irish Poor-law Bill. IRISH TITHE BILL. Mr. BERNAL brought up this Bill. MAILS ON RAILWAYS BILL. Mr. BERNAL also brought up this Pill. MUNICIPAL ACCOUN PS. Lord LYNDHURST asked why the abstracts of municipal accounts, which, by the Act of 1836, were required to be laid before their Lord. ships, had not been so produced ? Viscount MELBOURNE—I will make inquiry on the subject. IRISH TITHE BILL. Viscount MELBOURNE moved the first reading of this Bill, fixi ng the second reading for Tuesday.—Agreed to. BEER ACT. In answer to some observations of the Marquis of WESTMINSTER, Lord BROUGHAM said he should press his Beer Act Amendment Bill as far as possible this Session IRISH MAGISTRACY. On a question by the Marquis of DO WNSHIRE, a long discussion arose upon the dismissal of a gentleman named Corry from the Irish Magistracy, by Lord Plunket, which ended in the Marquis of LONDON DERRY'S ;;icing notice that on Thursday he would call the attention of the House to the subject. Lord HA DD I NGTON also gave notice of bringing before the House a statement regarding the appointment of two Irish Magistrates. IRISH RAILROADS. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE laid upon the Table the Second Report of the Railway Commissioners (Ireland) Enquiry. This was one of the most important documents that had ever been presented to the House, and he trusted that it would meet with the most attentive consi deration of every Noble Lord connected with Ireland. On the motion of the Earl of WICKLOW the Affirmations Bill passed through Committee, and was reported to the House. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND) BILL. Viscount MELBOURNE rose for the purpose of moving the third reading of this Bill. He had already stated to their Lordships that the amendments introduced in the Bill, although he had very considerable objection to many of them, would not prevent him from proceeding with the measure, or from taking the steps necessary to present the Bill in its amended shape to the consideration of the other House of Parliament. At the same time, however, he must state that a consideration and ex. amination of the amendments introduced in the Committee had rather increased than diminished his objection to them, and that he per ceived in them a great increase of the difficulties in the way of the final success of the measure. —(Hear, hear.) With respect to the amendments, he wouldnot go through them with any degree ofdetail. He had already stated that in some of them he concurred, particularly in the amendment settling the boundaries of the boroughs, and, though he did not pledge himself to those boundaries, yet he concurred in the principle. He thought it prudent and wise to settle the boundaries of the boroughs in this measure, because if the boundaries were not settled whilst the general question was pending, they must all know from experience that no attempt could be made to arrange them afterwards, without exciting all those local opinions and feelings which would form themselves into a mass of oppositions which it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to overcome. But there were many amendments introduced into the Bill relating to the inchoate rights of the freemen —relating to the adminis tration of the charities—relating to the preservation of appointments in the boroughs—amendments which he believed to be in the highest de gree objectionable, and calculated and intended to frustrate this measure of reform—amendments which, with the appearance of giving a new municipal government to the towns of Ireland, preserved as much as possible of those former abuses, which, in point of fact, it was the in tention of the Bill to remedy and reform. But he had already said that he would not go in detail through the amendments. He would, how. ever, state most distinctly that he differed from many of them—that he apprehended that they were not likely to meet with concurrence else. where, and he trusted, if they should be returned with alterations in these respects, that their Lordships would be prepared to consider them all in a fair spirit, and with the intention of rendering the Bill fitting and likely to produce the object which it was intended to effect. But the great difficulty—the greatest difficulty of all--the great difli. culty which had been felt from the b e ginning—was the amendment with respect to the qualification.—(Hear, hear.) 'fo that amendment he still had insuperable objections. The qualification, as it at present stood, was much too high ; it had every defect that it could possibly have ; it was uncertain ; it was a measure evidently with a double aspect —a measure intended to say to one party, it effected a consi. derable diminution of the franchise ; and to the other party it effected none at all—(Hear, hear)—to say to one party, it established a qualifica tion of 10/. ; and to the other, it established a qualification consider. ably under 101. Ile therefore said that the qualification was of an un certain value, and with respect to which something more definite, more certain, and with a more fixed meaning, should be introduced into the measure. Entertaining these objections to the qualification as it now stood in the Bill, he had nevertheless determined not to movo any of these amendments of which he had already given no tice that he should move at this stage of the Bill, because the qualification being so objectionable, it appeared to him that it would be better for those towns which were not included the schedule—that it would be more agreeable to the inhabitants of those towns—more agreeable to those acquainted with the feelings of the inhabitants, that they should be suffered to rest on that Clause of the Bill which enabled them to apply for a charter, and that the ch ar te rs s h ou l d not be forced upon them, accompanied with such a qualification, b u t th at they should be guided by their own experience of the working of the Bill, as t o w h e - Cher or not they would apply for a charter at all.—(Hear, hear.) He had also to state that the rules established by the Bill, for distinguishing the boundaries of the boroughs which should hereafter be applied for, we re exceedingly inconvenient. These bounda r i es, he apprehended, were taken from the instructions to the Boundary Commissioners he believed that these instructions had already been found 'and inapplica ble. It was not, he repeated, his intention to move any amendments upon this stage of the Bill. The Bill was u nquestionably a conces sion on the part of their Lordships. It was an w a h lt i e c r h at t i h o e n ir o u f a r n dsbip opi nion which the majority of their Lor dships had held i n f ormr years. It was an abandonment of a principle had heretofore been very resolute and determined in maintaining. It might be right to stand firmly and determinedly on that principle. It might be right for their Lordships to oppose themselves to popular feel. ing and popular clamour. It might be right to oppose measures which in themselves were wished for by a great majority o f t h e people; but there was nothing so unwise, so absurd, so imprudent, as when they proposed to make a concession not to do it generously, and if they were desirous of coming to a settlement of the question, not to make that set. dement in such terms as would be likely to be ulti mately satisfactory, and therefore lasting. The question having been put, Lord BROUGHAM thought the amendments introduced in the Bill were most effectively calculated to increase that unhappy spirit in Ire land which, he had hoped, this Bill would have tended to extinguish. —(Hear, hear. He agreed in all that had been stated by the Noble Viscount (Melbourne.) He entirely agreed with him respecting the whole of the amendments; and with the exception of the one the Noble Viscount had pointed out, namely, that which fixed the boundaries of the boroughs, and which he (Lord Brougham) considered a great improvement, and the amendment which re. duced the number of the boroughs, and enabled the towns omitted to obtain charters of inc or p oration ; with these two e xceptions, he must really protest against th e amendments on the g rou nds stated by the before Noble stated Viscount, to and on the grounds which he (Lord B roug h am) had their Lordships. He principally objected to the amend ment with respect to the qualification. He agreed with the Noble Vis. count, that the measure had a double aspect. It was intended to say to •hat side of the House (the Opposition)—" See, I am raising the qualifi i.ation ;" and ts. the other bide—'` 1 ain limiting the franchise trona to/. to something between 71. and W." It did neither the one nor the other. At all events it wouicliste a deception, for one or other of the parties would be deceived. But ‘ he (Lord Brougham) said t.. at both s id es were I deceived, for it was not a 10/. qualification, nor an 8/., nor 71. ; but, in fact, 13/. or 141. was the qualification. Perhaps, indeed, Noble Lords on the other side of the House would have no objection to that qualification, and they would be agreeably disappointed, for they would say—" You promised us a 10/. qualification, and you have given us just half as much again." But the other side would be disappointed, for the Bill fixed a double qualification. Would this satisfy the people of Ireland ? Ought it to satisfy them ? He (Lord Brougham) said that it ought not. He said that they would not be satisfied—that they ought not to be satisfied. Why ought they not to be satisfied ? What was there in crossing the Channel—what was there in the nature of an Irishman different from that of an Englishman, that in England there was not even an eight or a seven-pound qualification—that there was no pecuniary qualification at all ? How was it found in every part of this country, wealthy and populous as it was—rich in every species of commerce, agriculture, and manufacture—that all the towns and boroughs, from the capital down to the borough with only its two or three hundred voters—with all their different constitutions and habits—with all their old associations, and with every circumstance combined which ought to make it more difficult to give a qualification at all—how was it found that there was but this one settled rule—that every man who had a house over his head should have a voice in the administration of his own affairs ? That was a just principle of legislation —a wise principle of Government—a humane principle of Government, because it gave to the people who paid the taxes—who suffered the abuses, and were under the jurisdiction of the boroughs —the means of lowering these taxes, and the power—the ef fectual power—of controling the administration of their own affairs, and of keeping watch and ward over the conduct of the Government. It was, moreover, the principle of the Constitution of Eng land, for that Constitution originally knew no property qua lification at all. All the freeholders, to the extent of a fraction of a farthing, until the fifteenth century, had a voice in the Freeholders' Court, in choosing the delegates to represent them in Parliaments— (Hear.) The qualification of 40s. was then introduced, and though the value had so altered, that which was 40s. in Henry the Sixth's reign was now worth 401. a-year ; yet, so tender was Parliament of anything tending to encroach on the rights of the people—so determined not to raise the qualification when the value of money had so altered—that the 40s, freeholder had still the right to vote for Members of Parliament. This was the constitutional principle; and their Lordships might de pend upon it that no course more dangerous or more pernicious could be taken by any Government than to make manifest to the eye the dis tinction between the smaller number of men in whom the property of the country was vested and the immense body of men who had liberties to be protected—who had their little property—their labour, which was their property—to enjoy and to be protected ; but above all, who were the sinews of war—whose blood had gained our battles, whose sufferings in distressful time was the distress of the realm. Those men were no ten_ pound or five-pound householders. They were the men, he would re. peat, whose suffering was the distress of the country—they were the men whose exertions were the glory of the country; and when he said it was unwise and imprudent, and perilous as well as unjust, to draw the litre, and to treat the proprietors differently from the labourers, let them re collect how many months' purchase would the property on the right hand of the line be worth if they ceased to conciliate and retain the affections of those who had that might which slumbered on the left hand of the line. No wise Government or prudent lawgiver would draw the line, and if they adhered to that line it must be with the ut most peril to all the highest interests of the country. Their Lordships had, therefore, acted wisely, because they had justly abandoned that line. There was no such distinction drawn in the English Municipal Bill. Three years ago their Lordships gave their assent unani. mously to that principle. All doubt whether a house of the value of 101.,108., or 10d., ought to be the qualification never entered into their Lordships' view. He would ask why that rule should not be extended to Ireland? He (Lord Brougham) saw no reason why it should not be extended. Were there fewer men with property in Ireland ? On the contrary, that was not the fact. Were the people less loyal, less attached to the country ? Were they less likely to take an in. terest in the management of their own concerns? He should say, very far from it indeed ; and therefore he held that it was not consistent with their Lordships' former policy—that it was repugnant to every principle of justice—that it was founded in general on an unfair and an unsafe view of the duties of legislation, to adopt one rule for Ireland after they had adopted another rule for England.—(Hear, hear.) Had they had in the three years' experience in England any ground to regret what they had given ? Quite the reverse. All the alarms as to Uni versal Suffrage had been dissipated by the practical proof of experience. One ground urged at the time was, that they could not retain the Par liamentary qualification—that they could have no qualification at all. He (Lord Brougham) believed that there had not been one public meeting held, or one petition presented, for extending the suffrage of Parliamentary electors in consequence of the extension of the municipal suffrage. Petitions there had been in favour of household suffrage—in favour of Universal suffrage, and petitions there had been in favour of the Vote by Ballot; but these petitions had not been more numerous than had been received formerly ; and he vould venture to say that since the year 1835 they had been fewer in number, and with less signatures, than during the three years immediately preceeding. Another claim was, that there would be nothing but mob elections. Tumult and disorders were predicted, and in his (Lord Brougham's) opinion, most ignorantly predicted, because he had always observed that the more kindly they treated the people, and the more they gave them, they were the more kindly and affectionately disposed towards the Go. vernment, because they began to feel that they had an interest in the Government, and that the Government became their own concern. In every point it ought not to be lost sight of by any prudent lawgiver to conciliate the people, to give them an interest in the Government, and to make them feel that they were part and parcel of the Constitution of the realm.—(Hear, hear.) Not only the proprietors of the country should feel this, but, above all, they should make those who were not the proprietors feel it ; those who had little or no property, and who were the most numerous. They should make those feel it who also lived under the Constitution, and who, if called on, would support it with their blood and toil; and if they were not supported, the knell of that Constitution, though supported by property, and defended by arms, if they pleased, the knell cf that Constitution had tolled.—(Hear.) He, therefore, for these reasons, which he had stated not at too much length —for he had stated them as succinctly as possible—for these reasons he held that the experience of the last three years was against the present principle, and not for it, and that their Lordships ought to extend the principle of the English Bill to Ireland, instead of shearing the Bill of that brightest part—oae which would have been brighter still if, instead of a 51. qualification, there had been no qualification at all.—( Hear, hear.) Every principle of practical experience concurred in making him (Lord Brougham) desire to see the English principle adopted in Ireland, and protest against these amendments of his Noble and Learned Friend ;Lyndhurst). There was another branch of the amendments to which it had been his intention on a former occasion of adverting, and one which he thought would be even more likely to irritate the Irish. He regarded it as frustrating the Reform altogether. He alluded to that provision which continued the weighers and market clerks in their offices as if this Act had not passed. This was a Bill to eradicate abuses ; and the first thing done was to show that they were not in earnest, by enacting that the authors of the abuses were to continue in their offices.—(Hear, hear.) He did not say these individuals were guilty of these abuses, but he knew that these abuses were the great gravamen of the charge against the present system. He must be suffered to add—whether their Lordships intended the Bill to be found on true, wise, sound, and constitutional principles of legislation ; or whether they only looked to the minor ob. ject of its own merits, as a measure of legislation, which would stand the test of having sound principles applied to it, and the test of experi. ence ; or whether they looked to the more t emporary object, but still an object of immense importance, the conciliating Ireland, the sp. peasing the ills of that ill-governed, and therefore ill-fated country— he must be suffered to add, that in all these views they would be en tirely disappointed. Those amendments were contrary to sound prin ciples—coutrary to the principles of our own Constitution—and they were repugnant to the principles on which their Lordships themselves had framed a Bill three years ago. In another view, they were preg nant with the seeds of discontent, and they would give rise to the most bitter disappointment. The Duke of WELLINGTON said—My Lords, I think it right to say a few words on the subject of the general principles of this Bill, and the conduct of her Majesty's Government in regard to it. I, however, my Lords, propose to discuss the Bill itself, and to make only one ob servation on what has just fallen from the Noble and Learned Lord who last addressed your Lordships. It is this, that when the Noble and Learned Lord came down to your Lordships' House to propose to Parliament a Municipal Corporations Bill, for this country—which he did when he sat on the woolsack; and when he supported another Municipal Corporations Bill, which was brought forward in 1835, he did not either propose the one measure or support the other on such principles as he has this night avowed, in advo cating the rejection of the amendments to this Bill, proposed by my Noble and Learned Friend.—(Hear, hear.) In the first in stance, my Lords, if I recollect rightly, there was a large qualifica tion; and in the second though a money qualification, it was a small one; but my Lords, on what was the qualification proposed by the Noble and Learned Lord in his measure to depend. Why, upon the payment of rates and a certain number of years' resi dence. Is it not a well-known fact that a man must inhabit a house of a given value, and for a certain period, before he can be called on to pay rates, and yet, with this proposition, present to your Lordships' mind, the Noble and Learned Lord now calls on you to follow the example of the English Bill, and that, too, notwithstanding an example of his own measure is at the present moment in existence in Scotland.—(Hear.) My Lords, that which it is our business now to provide for is the proper reform of the Municipal Corporations of Ireland, in which it is stated there are abuses which ought to be corrected, and in respect of which it is clear that the views of the Legislature, formed many years ago, so far back, indeed, as 1792 and 1793, have not been carried into execu. tion. On these grounds, my Lords, I have always thought it desirable to make alterations in the Irish Corporations, and certainly I have no hesitation in avowing now, that which I declared the first day the subject was brought under your Lordships' consideration, that I still think my views more fit—a better arrangement than the present, for I would put an end to Corporations in Ireland altogether, and commit the Go. vernment of that country to the representation of the Sovereign of this country.—(Cries of " Hear.") They are, however, my Lords, persons in this country, who think that Corporations should exist in Ireland ; and that being so, I stated my willingness to adopt any mea. sure on the subject which I should consider consistent with the princi ples of the Constitution, and capable of giving security to a large body of persons residing in that country, in whose hands power had been placed up to a shortperiod since ; and, in whose hands, I am sorry to say, it does not exist at the present moment.—(Hear.) At the same time, my Lords, in carrying into execution this or any other measure that has been proposed, I have sincerely endeavoured to assist the Go vernment, so far as I could conscientiously do so, in providing schemes that would be satisfactory to all parties, and make that just and proper distribution of power which is so necessary to give security to all, by af fording protection alike to the lives and properties of every class of her Majesty's subjects, whether in this country or in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Now, my Lords, what is it that has kept Ireland in the state of agitation in which that country has so long been ? The Noble and Learned Lord and the Noble Viscount have complained of the sor t of qualificatiou, or stream which it is the object of the amendment of my Noble and Learned Friend to establish with regard to the Irish Corporations, and both represented it as a de ception on your Lordships, whether sitting on this or on that side of the House. Now, I must say, my Lords, that I do not think it possible for any man to state in more clear or perspicuous language th an my Noble and Learned Friend did what his intentions were, when he ex plained to your Lordships the principles on which his amendment pro eeeded.—(Hear, hear.) But what is it that my Noble Friend stated to your Lordships? Why, he stated that the same amount of suffrage existed in Scotland as that which he proposed for Ireland. He stated also that certain deductions ought to be made, and he at the same time ga ve your Lordships the authorities on which that part of his proposition which related to deductions, was founded. My Noble and Learned Friend, my Lords, likewise stated to your Lordships the different Acts of Parliament, which proved the necessity of the deductions which he proposed should be made. He stated the instructions given to the Poor-law Commissions, and finally, he stated what the charges of the Judges to the Grand Juries were on this subject. It is itnpossible for any Noble Lord, who heard my Noble and Learned Friend, to pretend that he could be deceived for a single instant as to the meaning of my Noble and Learned Friend ; for what my Noble and Learned Friend stated to your Lordships was, that he stood clearly on the ground of a ten.pound suffrage with deductions.—(Hear.) But, my Lords, the Noble and Learned Lord and the Noble Viscount think this amount of suffrages too much, and yet neither of them has made any other proposition to your Lordships.—(Hear.) I, my Lords, intended to move that the amount of the qualification proposed by the amendment of nay Noble and Learned Friend should be increased one or two pounds, but, on re consideration, I thought it better to leave the towns to make their own proposal in this respect, when the operations of the Bill shall be ascertained. That is, in my judgment, the best course we can take on the subject, for ! must L.:j s ci.rued to say, notwithstaniiihg ti,r paoei::- ric which the Noble and Learned Lord kas pronounced on the coun t try, that I for one am no very ardent admirer of those Corporatiens.--. (Hear, hear.) True, my Lords, a greater degree of municipal tran.. quillity exists in the streets of the English towns now than be_ fore the Corporation Reform Bill passed, but to what, I ask your Lordships, is this increased tranquillity owing?—(Hear.) Is it not, in a great measure, to a more efficient watch and police ? It is, I which have b een established my Lords, to the additional watch and police established in the various corporation towns of this country that the present tranquillity of the streets of those towns is to be attributed ; but it should not be forgotten that this tranquillity has been purchased at a very large expense in the way of public money.—(hear, hear.) The same course, however, is not to be taken with regard to Ireland ; and even though this Bill, as amended, should be adopted, there is no intention to make provisions for the tranquillity of the Irish corporative towns similar to that which was made for the towns of this country.-- (Hear, hear.) On the other hand, my Lords, let me ask your Lordships what is the social condition of the corporative towns in England ? Dees social tranquillity prevail in those towns ? No such thing.— (Hear, hear.) On the contrary, nothing but discord exists, and from one end of the year to the other are they not the scenes of perpetual po litical squabblings respecting one election or another. As to that peace and happiness which has for so long a period rendered England the most desirable spot in the world for a man to reside in, it has ceased to exist ; and, from all I can hear, I fear much, before long, we will find that this system of agitation and political squabbling to which I alluded will not tend either to the security of property or the existence of capital in this country.—(Hear, hear.) Then, my Lords, it appears that there is an other part of the amendments to this Bill to which both the Noble and Learned Lord and the Noble Viscount object—l mean that part of the amendments which relate to the Parliamentary Commissioners ; but, for my own part, I am free to confess that I do not know what the Noble Lords are at. It is, my Lords, no doubt true that the Commissioners for Charities are preserved in the amendments made to this Bill by my Noble and Learned Friend; but, as regards myself, I must say I think this among the best of the amendments proposed by my Noble and Learned Friend.—(Hear, hear.) My opinion is, that a gross mistake was made in the English Bill on the subject of charities, and therefore I, for one, will never consent to leave the charities of Ireland in the doubtful state in which the charities of England have been left. My Lords, I would not have consented to the English Bill if I did not be lieve that a measure would have been brought forward in the next Session for the regulation of the charities of this country. If I am not misinformed, my Lords, the funds of these charities are used and applied for purposes of corruption in both municipal and Parliamentary elec_ tions—(Cheers)—and what my Noble and Learned Friend has in view by his amendments is, to take care that in Ireland charitable funds are not directed to similar ends. My Noble and Learned Friend wishes that in the present arrangement provision shall be made for keeping the management of the Irish charities in the hands of the Commissioners; and althougte i am as anxious as any Noble Lord opposite can be to see all public charities, whether in Englant or Ireland, properly reformed, I am bound to say that the proposition of my Noble and Learned Friend in this particular has my most hearty concurrence.—(Hear, hear.) My Lords, the Noble Viscount has expressed his anxiety, in case this Bill comes back from another place with alterations, that your Lordships should evince a disposition to consider those alterations with a sincere desire to agree to this measure. For my own part, my Lords, I have no doubt that your Lordships are prepared to inset whatever alterations the other House of Parliament may make in this Bill in a proper spirit; and that, however that other place may express their views respecting it, you will be actuated only by a sincere desire to con cur in their wishes, provided those wishes are consistent with your own ideas of what is fit and most desirable for the real interests of the Irish people.—(Hear, hear.) My Lords, I must say that I for one should be glad to see the Noble Viscount and his colleagues exerting their influence to conciliate that other place in relation to this House.—(Cheers.) I say, my Lords, I should be glad to see a single instance in which such a course was taken by the Noble Viscount and his colleagues.—(Hear, hear.) My Lords, I consider that all these reforms should proceed in such a way as that no vexatious tyranny could be exercised against individuals—in such a way as that the rights of individuals should be respected, and that no one be deprived of his existence, or the means of living, by any violent or ferocious faction who may for the moment have the upper hand.—(Hear, hear.) In the measures of the Noble and Learned Lord he took good care that corn. pensation should be given to all those men who were to be deprived of their means of living as a consequence of the reforms which lie intro duced ; and I say, my Lords, that her Majesty's Government out to have done the same. The Noble and Learned Lord acted on the right prin ciple; for I contend that no reforms can be just which leave those who suffer ruin from them, who are destroyed by them, without proper corn pensation.—(Hear, hear.) My Lords, there is scarcely a post which does not bring me accounts of some poor man who is to lose his office or be deprived of his emoluments, who is to lose his whole means of existence should the arrangements under this Bill be adopted. One instance which has come to my knowledge, and the hardship of which will be prevented by the amendment of my Noble and Learned Friend, I mayntention. That is the case of the Lord Mayor of Dublin. It seems that at the termination of his year of office the Lord Mayor of Dublin is entitled to 1,0001., but under this Act of Parliament he is to be deprived not only of this 1,0001., but of the privilege of hold ing the same office afterwards for another year without any compensation at all.—(Hear.) There is also another party who has the same sort of claim, and he will of course be placed in the same situation. It is per fectly true, my Lords, that your Lordships have made arrangementa for satisfying such claims; but what I say is, that it was incumbent on her Majesty's Government to have provided redress in all cases of the kind— to have Wien some step by which the victims of their measures shall not suffer—shall not be deprived of that fair and reasonable compensation to which the services they have performed entitle them.—(Hear.) My Lords, I have troubled your Lordships at greater length than I intended, but I could not hear what has been stated by the Noble Viscount, and the Noble and Learned Lord, without declaring why it is that I give my support to this Bill as it now stands.—(Hear.) I am satisfied, my Lords, that every proposal or amendment which may proceed from another place will be anxiously, considered by your Lordships; but while I do hope that something like conciliation will be shown in that place, I am equally desirous that the claims of the victims of this Bill will be fully and fairly considered.—(Cheers.) Lord BROUGHA Iv% in explanation, said that the reason neither he nor his Noble Friends had proposed any other qualification was, because the Bill, as it originally stood, contained a 51. franchise. Now he was not satisfied either with that or the present limit, wishing for a house hold qualification ; and hence it was, that he was anxious to see the same qualification as was given by the English Bill introduced into this. With respect to compensation to those who might snit:tin injury try measures like the present, all he could say was, that though a Reformer, lie went the full length o: the Noble Duke. God forbid that he should ever be a party to any reform which dill not aflbrd protection to parties who suffered from it, at all events during their lives, for he had always thought it a great mistake on the part of those reformers who brought in Bills which would deprive people of their bread with. out giving them adequate compensation. He held all such reforms to be bad in policy and unjust in principle, and when he brought in the English Bill he said if the House of Commons would not agree to make provision for those who were entitled to compensation, he would not move further in it. So far he kept the staff in his own hand.—(hear.) The Earl of WICKLO \V was glad that Noble Lords had agreed to reform the Corporations of Ireland ; but he could not agree with the Noble Duke that if this Bill were passed in its present shape it would allay agitation on this subject in that country. He wished the num ber of towns to which Municipal Corporations were granted to be in creased ; but while he entertained this wish, he never could consent to a low qualification—a low franchise would not, he was persuaded be judicious in Ireland. It might as an abstract principle be good to re. move all Corporations from the Irish towns ; but such a course he thought would not be desirable in practice, as they were institutions to which the people were attached by long habit. In fact, they could not de prive the towns of Ireland of Corporations without danger; and this being his own opinion, he wished the Noble Viscount had persevered in his intentions. There was one observation of the Noble and Learned Lord on which he (Lord Wicklow) wished to remark, but he perceived that the Noble and Learned Lord had left the House, as he always did when he had made his own speech.—(A laugh.) The Noble and Learned Lord said that the franchise now proposed was a deception on both sides of the House; that one party were deceived in supposing it a 104 qualification, and the other if they imagined it would be reduced to 71. or 81. Both parties, he said, were deceived, because it was neither the one nor the other, but in fact a 131. franchise. He (Lord Wicklow) must deny this. If the qualification were to exceed 101., certainly it should not have his assent; but the Noble and Learned Lord was in error on the subject, and he fell into this mistake by applying the circumstances of England to Ireland. The rating in the two countries would be widely different, and his be lief was that as the rating in Ireland would not exceed the value, as was the case in England. the qualification proposed by his Noble and Learned Friend would not, in fact, be more than a qualification of something between 81. and 91. It might be advantageous to the work.. ing of this Bill if their Lordships were at once to decide upon a 91. franchise; but as it might not be convenient to adopt that course now, lie was prepared to support the amendment of his Noble and Learned Friend.—(Hear.) Lord LYNDHURST then proposed certain verbal alterations in seve ral clauses of the Bill, for the purpose of assimilating them to the clauses in the measures which had been passed for amending the English Corporation Act. The amendments were all agreed to. Lord REDESDALE proposed clauses for the purpose of continuing the management of certain charities in the hands in which their affairs were at present placed. These clauses were ordered to be added to the Bill. Several verbal amendments were then made in the Bill, at the sugges. tion of different Noble Lords, which were ordered to be printed and re. ported on Monday. The Bills upon the table were then forwarded a stage, and their Lord. ships adjourned At a Quarter before Nine o'Clock, until Monday. FROM LAST NIGHT'S GAZETTE. ST. JAMES'S-PALACE, JULY 18, 1838. The Queen was this day pleased to confer the honour of Knight hood upon Jeffery Prendergast, Esq., a Major- General in the Honourable East India Company's Service, and late Military Audi tor-General at Madras. ST. JAMES'S-PALACE, JOLT 18. The Queen was this day pleased to confer the honour of Knight hood upon Alexander Morison, Esq., M.D., of Mid Lothian, N. 8., and Cavendish-square, in the county of Middlesex, late President of the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh. WHITEHALL, JULY 25 The Queen has been pleased to present the Rev. George Adam Browne, A.M., to the Rectory of Ratingdon, alias Rettenden, in the County of Essex and diocese of London, void by the promotion of Dr. James Bowstead to the bishopric of Sodor and Man. WAR OFFICE, Ju 27. 2d Regiment of Life Guards—Ensign Archibald William Viscount Drumlanrig, from the 92d Regiment of Foot, to be Cornet and Sub-Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Lindsay, who retires, July 27. 4th Regiment of Light Dragoons—A. R. Hole, Gent., to be Cornet, by purchase, vice Symonds, who retires, July 27. 6th Regiment of Dragoons—Staff-Assistant-Surgeon C. R. Boyes, M.D. to be Assistant-Surgeon, vice F. M'Cra e , w h o re tires upon half-pay, July 27. 14th Regiment of Light Dragoons—Lieut. J. B. Culpeper to be Captain, by purchase, vice Leary, who retires; Cornet C. T. Griffis to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Culpeper ; H. R. Bou cherett, Gent., to be Cornet, by purchase, vice Griffis, July 27. Coldstream Regiment of Foot Guards—Lieutenant and Cap tain George Knox to be Captain and Lieutenant-Colonel, by purchase, vice Brevet Colonel Wedderburn, who retires ; Ensign and Lieutenant the Hon. F. W. C. Villiers to be Lieute nant and Captain, by purchase, vice Knox ; Second Lieutenant J. A. V. Kirkland, from the Rifle Brigade, to be Ensign and Lieute nant, by purchase, vice Villiers, July 27. 2d Regiment of Foot—Ensign G. Piercy to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Moodie, who retires, July 27 ; Ensign E. Honey wood, from the 54th Regiment of Foot, to be Lieutenant, by pur chase, vice Lewis, appointed to the 45th Regiment of Foot, July 28. 4th Foot.—Brevet Lieutenant-Colonel R. Macdonald, from the 54th Regiment of Foot, to be Major, vice Beetham, who ex changes, July 27. 7th Foot.—Lieutenant R. Bernal to be Captain, by purchase, vice Norman, who retires, July 27 ; Lieutenant A. J. Pack, from the half-pay Unattached, to be Lieutenant, vice W. Balfour, who exchanges, July 26 ; Ensign Robert Francis Lord Gifford, from the 52d Regiment of Foot, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Bernal, July 27., 17111 Foot—Ensign H. William Bacc, from the 38th Regiment of Foot, to he Lieutenant, without purchasa, vice Dalgety, cashiered by the sentence of a General Court Martial. July 2'. _l]. hill Cavendish, who retires; Ensign L. 1). Gordon to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Hill, July 27. 25th Foot—Capt. J. H. Cooke, from the half-pay Unattached, to be Captain, vice Brevet Major Thomas Stewart, who exchanges, receiving the difference, July 27. 27th Foot—Captain M. C. Johnstone to be Major, by purchase, vice Maclean, who retires ; Lieut. .T. F. Lonsdale to be Captain. by purchase, vice Johnstone ; Ensign J. Lewes to be Lieut., by purchase, vice Lonsdale ; G. L. Thomson, Gent. to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Lewis, July 27. 35th Foot—Gentleman Cadet J. A. Ewart, from the Royal Mili tary College, to be Ensign, without. purchase, July 27. 38th Foot—Serjeant-Major C. W. Litchfield to be Ensign, with out purchase, vice Bace, promoted in the 17th Regiment of Foot, July 27. 45th Foot—Lieut. W. R. Lewes, from the 2d Regiment of Foot, to be Lieutenant. vice Walsh, who retires, July 27. 50th Foot—Ensign G. G. M. Cobban to be Lieutenant, by pur chase, vice Campbell, who retires ; H. Otho de Crespigny, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Cobban, July 27. 525 Foot—F. Carden, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Lord Gifford promoted in the 7th Regiment of Foot, July 27, 54th Foot—Major W. Beetham, from the 4th Regiment of Foot, to be Major, vice Macdonald, who exchanges, July 27; C. L. Cocks, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Honeywood, promoted in the 2(1 Regiment of Foot, July 28. 60th Foot—Serjeant-Major M. Waterhouse to be Quartermaster, vice .Jonathan Booth, who retires upon half-pay, July 27. 93d Foot—Brevet Colonel H. B. Harris, from half-pay Unat tached, to be Lieutenant-Colonel, vice Brevet Colonel Duncan M`Gregor, who exchanges, 27th July ; - Major R. Spark, to be Lieutenant-Colonel, by purchase, vice Harris, who retires, ; Cap tain J. Burgh, to be 'Major, by purchase, vice Spark ; Lieutenant N. S. Buchanan, to be Captain, by purchase, vice Burgh ; Ensign C. H. Gordon, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Buchanan ; G. Seton, Gent. to be Ensign by purchase, vice Gordon, July 28. Rifle Brigade—W. B. Ramsay, Gent., to be Second Lieute nant, by purchase, vice Kirkland, appointed to the Coldstream Guards, July 27. Ceylon Rifle Regiment—Lieutenant A. Grierson, from the half-pay of the 38th Regiment of Foot, to be Lieutenant, vice R. Campbell, who exchanges, July 27. Royal African Cclonial Corps—Lieut. P. Craufurd, from the half-pay Unattached, to be Lieutenant, without purchase, vice W. Fraser, who returns to his former situation as an Ensign, upon half-pay, July 27. HOSPITAL STAFF. E. R. Fraser, Gent., to be Assistant-Surgeon to the Forces, vice Boys, appointed to the 6th Dragoons, July 27. BREVET. Colonel Thomas DAlmer, on the half-pay of the 43d Regiment of Foot, to be Major-General in the Army, June `.B. To be Colonels in the Army.—Lient.-Colonel J. Crowder, on half-pay of the 23d Regiment of Foot; Lieut.-Colonel W. C. Seton, on the half-pay of the 88th Regiment of Foot • Lieut.- Colonel W. Douglas, on the half-pay of the Royal Engineers, June 28. To be Major in the Army.—Captain J. H. Cooke, of the 25th Regiment of Foot, June 28. BANK OF NGLAND, Quarterly Average of the weekly Liabilities and. Assets of the Bank of England, from the Ist May to the 24th July, 18.38, both inclusive, pursuant to the Act 3 and 4 W. IV., cap. 98. LIABILITIES. ASSETS. Circulation Deposits 10,424,000 Bullion £29,710,000 I Downing-street, July 26, 1839, BANKRUPTCIES SUPERSEDED. .£32,350,000 EDWARD SOUTTEN, dealer, Fox and Knot-yard, Snow hill. PETER LOWE, merchant, Upton, Cheshire. JEREMIAH CHITTENDEN, Jun., hop-factor, Three Tuns eourt, Southwark. BANKRUPTS. GEORGE HANSON, cutler, Fleet-street, to surrender on the August 10, at twelve, and Sept. 7, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Cannan, Official Assignee, Finsbury-square ; Parker and Lowe, Birmingham ; Holme, Loftus, and Young, New Inn. WILLIAM GREVILLE JONES, surgeon, Greville-street, Brook-street, Holborn, Aug. 3, at two, and Sept. 7, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Abbott, Official Assignee ; Davies, Palsgrave-place, Temple. JOHN STEADMAN, hatter, Preston, Lancashire, Aug. 10, and Sept. 7, at eleven, at the Town-hall, Preston, Lncashire ; Chester, Staple-inn, and Burt, Lancaster-place, London ; Haydock, Preston. HENRY PERKINS HAMNIOND. rope-maker, Bishop's gate-street, Aug. 11, at one, and Sept. 7, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Edwards, Frederick's-place, Old Jewry ; Lang, Fenchurch-street. JOHN ALMOND, grocer, Hetten-le-Hole, Durham, Aug. 8, at eleven, and Sept. 7, at one, at the Half-Moon Inn, Gateshead; Meggison, Pringle, and Manisty, Bedford-row, London; Stanton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. WILLIAM GUNNELL, currier, Cirencester, Gloucester, Aug. 24, and Sept. 7, at 10, at the office of T. Lediard, Cirences ter. Lediard, Cirencester; Heath, Charlotte-row, Mansion-house► London. DIVIDENDS. At the Court of Bankruptcy, Basinghall-street. W. Hamilton and M. Agar, merchants, Fiche's-court, Lime' street, Aug. 17—B. Haskell, wheelwright, Watford, Aug. 20- - J. Newbery, scrivener, Reading, Aug. 20. In the Country. T. Anmer, merchant, Lime-street, Aug. 20, at the Commis" sioners' Rooms, Manchester—J. Barnsley, builder, Wolverhamp ton, Aug. 21, at the Star and Garter Hotel—H. Haward, coach maker, Canterbury, Aug. 13, at the Guildhall—R. Grover, cabi net maker, Brighton, Aug. 23, at the Town-hall—T. P. Peck and J. Peck, grocers, Liverpool, Aug. 30 at the Clarendon-rooms- - B• W. Openshaw, brewer, Prestwich, Aug. 18, at the Commission ers'-rooms, Manchester. CERTIFICATE, AUG. 17. H. Ashcroft, victualler, Liverpool—J. Lorcl•-• ,, N . H a dley. builders, High-street, Herne-Bay—W. W. and D. S. Wilmot' glass cutters, Bristol—J. Carter, hosier, Newark-upon-Trent--J' Philpott, ironmonger, Rochester—W. Whitebread, cheesemonge r, High-street, Wapping—E. Justins, sen., and E. Justins, jun.t printers, Mark-lane--G. Topham, coal merchant, Richmond. PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED. S. Jones and R. West, plasterers, Worcester—P. Best and F• Walker, surgeons, Bulwell, Nottinghamshire—J. Laing and Co., sail cloth factors, George-street, 31inories—J. Brown and 147 ' Taylor, shipping agents, Liverpool—J. Newton and Co., brewer!' Liverpool—H. and I. Godfrey, innkeepers, Kidd erm inster --o• Leech, jun. and J. A. Bostock, tobacco manufacturers, Hanley' Staffordshire—J. Lucas and J. Midgley, stone merchants, Leeds-- - J. J. Oudet and V. Martin, tavern keepers, Castle-street, Leices' ter-square—W. Jones and C. Highett, surgeons, Bristol--' Palk, jun. and Co., brewers, Newton Abbot, Devonshire—l. Davis and Co., farriers, Bury-street, St. Mary-axe—P. and ' Smith, grocers, Walsall, Staffordshire. At Devizes fair the Down wools fetched from 465. to 48s. per tod of 281bs , a t w hi c h p r i ces th e f a i r was near ly cleat . '" by sales. THE RECENT PROMOTlONS.—ThelOrtheOgl in g Number of Colburn's United Service Journal for August will contai n feature of no ordinary interest to its gallant-readers. By the additiar of an extra sheet, the Editor has be en ena bl e d to g i ve an accoun t of 0' whole of the Coronation Promotions, honorary Distinctions, etc., Naval and Military, as well as those of th e H on. E ast I n di a Compani! service. The publication of 414 f -document cannot but give great a 86 , - , faction, for, independentluef its intrinsic imp or t ance, i t i s not to be 1n; with complete in the pages of any contemp orar y J ourna l . The 101°,-, Number will contain, as usual, a gre a t v a r i e ty o f m i scel l aneous of high interest, especially some curious particulars of Persia and th Persians, related in the narrative of an Excursion from Teheran to th e Rock of the Assassins. NEW NOVELS AND ROMANCES.—The following New Works of Fiction are j us t p u bli s h e d b y M r. C o lb urn, 13, 6ree Marlborough_street, and may be had at all e Libraries :-1. Th eh Glanville Family, by a L a d y o f R an k , 3 v —2. The Woman of World, by the Authoress of " The Diar of a Desennuyee," 3 yell .." 3. The Man about To wn , by th e A u t r o f" Gl ances a t Lif e ," 4. The Greenwich Pensioners, a Companion to Mr. Gleig's Chaw l , Pensioners," 3 vols.-5. Shakspeare and His Friends; or, the no ld ,, C d Age of Merry England, au Historical Romance, 3 vols.—Lights Shadows of Irish Life,' Mrs. S. C. Hall, 3 vols.-7. Nourmaha i, $ Oriental Romance, by M. J Quin, Esq., 3 vols.-8. Outward Bound; Merchant's Adventures, by the author of " Rattlin the Reefer," 3 00 o f 9. The Courtier's Daughter, by Lady Stepney, 3 vols.-10. INle r ' t ic Character, by Douglas Jerrold, E sq ., 3 vo l s ., w ith n umerous charactel l ! etchings after Thackeray-11. Royston Gower; or, the Days of l c° , John, an Historical Romance, by T. Miller, 3 vols.—And 12. 1 06 newel, by Lady Charlotte Bury, 3 vols. - _ PLATE SUITED FOR PRESENp,TIOI Elegant or Splendid Silver Inkstands—Silver Waiters of every 6 ": r —Silver Cups, New and Second-hand—y*lllY varieties of Sil7l Tea and Coffee Services—Gold Snuff Boxes—Silver Table Sf ue r Boxes—Silver Epergnes—Silver Bread Ba s ket. A n d man y articles of Plate adapted for Presentation as Testimonials, &co r t) be selected from, in they ow Rooms at T. COX SAVORY'S, h int Working Silversmith, Goldsmith, and Watchmaker, 47, Col-1l London (Seven Doors from Gracechurch-street). BII?T118. A li On the 25th inst., at Acton, the lady of Sir Archer Den° Croft, Bart., of a son. rt .. O• On the 21st inst., in Albion-street, Hyde-park, Mrs. .1.• Phillips, of a son. 0 ,„ f On the 21st inst., in Brunswick-square, Brighton, th e la d y Captain R. Blunt, of a son. a liOt On the 24th inst., at Clapha m - r i se , th e l a d y o f G . F. '- n Esq., of a son. / MARRIED. e. On the 24th inst., at Camberwell Church, John Pate . o ,,. e '; r iv Esq., only son o f G eorge N ev ill e, E sq., o f Sk e lb ro k e Hall, !a...4f shire, to Louisa Mary Grant, daughter of F. R. G. Dalton , of Ingoldsthorpe Hall, Norfolk. Lee; On the 23d inst., a t D or ki ng , Surrey, John Napper, of wet- Sussex, eldest so n o f J. L. Napper, Esq., to Sarah Foster, e daughter of the late H. Young, Esq. t tb On the 25th inst., at St. George's, Hanover- s quare. and a t Catholic Chapel, Chelsea, Monsieur Leon Du Parcq, of tbo de pri Marine Audit Office, Paris, to Sophia, the daughter of " Newnham, Esq. A thil r ' On the 25th inst., at Walcot Church, Rath, Ch ar les only son of the late Hon. and Rev. James St. Leger, to Ja ne t bina, second daughter of William Hawksley, Esq., of the Bath. 0,10 Oa the 24th inst., at Totteridge Church, Herts, M :writ Turner, of Hackney, to Sophia, eldest daughter of Daniel 1, "" Esq., of Wilson-street, Finsbury. 0 314 On the 23d inst., at Kirkstall, Y or k s hi re , Ri c h ar d Hobson, 1 bter Cant. of Park-house, Leeds, to Caroline, only surviving of the late P. Rhodes, Esq. of Park-place, Leeds. r On the 24th inst., at St. Pancras Church, the Rev. Pet e cat isrq Morland, Minister of the National Scotch Church, Rege nt -o — ,a ° to Marion, youngest daughter of the late John M‘Gill, Euston-place. On the 24th in s t., at Camber !w E elf-irove, Mr. John R atra;' foe merly of Islington. On the 25th inst., at Bromle Middlesex, aged 18, 0 daughter of the Rev. C. W. y, Bas,Principalofthe list _ A Le College, Hertford. CAF t '' On the 21l inst., at Bridgetown, near Totnes, aged 70, , „,40 0 ' C. S. Compton, late Dockmaster of St. Katharine Docks , 1010' At Cheshunt, Herts, on the 22d inst., Sarah,widow of J • i 0 field, Esq., aged 86. 5 04 ' On the 14th inst., at Paris, Benjamin Lester Lester, . ieo lfet Stone Cottage, near Wimborne, Dorset. u; " On the 25th inst., in Guildford-place, Kennington, Lev/ ...! Esq., aged 78 Ellen, itol7. London: Printed and Published by M IMMO Y 0 u 4 -" e f i !" 112, Strand, at Tile Sun O ffi ce, No. 112, Strand, in W of Middlesex.—Saturday, July 28, 1838. I 1,4 - 4 6, 4;. ~.4.