The Sun. — London, England, 1808-02-04 00:00:00

V ~~/ ffr. c , ~+l ~4 " y 4 • • ; ) , t ' NUMBER 4802.] IMPERIAL PARLLBIENT. HOUSE OF PEERS, WEDNESDAY, FEB. 3. Lerd AUCKLAND rose pursuant to notice, to pre sent a Petition from Sir James Innis,. one of the claimants to the Estates and Peerage of the Rot borough family. Knowing, as he did, ' the in _flexible partiality of his Learned and Noble Friend il on the Woolsack, and his. anxious regard 'for the fair and impartial administration of justice, he should he the last man in the world to present any petition, the prayer of which should, in the least, be inCom . patible with. that acknowledged disposition of his Noble and Learned Friend; but in the present Case, there w e re sp ec i a l grounds which, in his ,'mind, were so strong as to recommend,it to very ,;- 'particular consideration. Among these his Lordship enumerated the following :—That the petitioner's ,114 4 vii:s ready for hearing, and Counsel attended "AL a great expence from Scotland; when, owing to the then state of public business, it was unavoid ably deferred ; that the petitioner was advanced to an extreme old age ; that he could not enter upon any family arrangements until this canse,was decid ed i. that there now stood for their LordShips' hear ing 160 causes ; and that were the petitioner to wait for his turn, his cause would not be heard. these six years to come, when, most probably, he should be no more; that the Peerages were to be decided on at the same time with the Estates ; and that it was usual with their Lordships to attend as early as possible to what related to their own dignity and privileges : upon all these grounds, the petitioner prayed that his cause might-.be heard on the Bth of May next. The. LORD CHANCELLOR was fully sensible of the hardship of the case; but it struck him that the claims of others, who each looked upon his as the most important cause, were all entitled to equal justice, and were all equally urgent fur a speedy . hearing. There were now more than 160 causes Waitibg their Lordships' decision ; and the one in which the present petitioner was itaterested had a ~,''ery great n um b er b e f ore i t i n pr i or i ty of hearing. tie could see no ground upon whiCh to get over that ditliculty, except the orie conneefed with the decision of the claims to the Peerage, and in his opinion that ground might be referred to the Committee of Pri vileges. Lbrd LAUDERDALE conceived that it would be a great saving of their Lordships' time .to ,have both points discussed at once--that which related the Peerage, And that which related to the states ; and their Lordships would be pleased to remember, that the latter point was rec , ommended by hi s M a j esty f or an ear l y hearing. . Lora siputs caist torrc,burated the assertion respita ing- his Ilsjesty's recommendation. The Loan CHANCELLOR suggested the idea, that it would he better to refer the petition to the Com- In ittee of P r i v il eges, and then to state more fully the grounds upon which 'it rested. Lord AUCKLAND acquiesced in this idea, and - . save notice, that on. Friday. next he shOuld move to refer the petition to the Committee of Privileges. Lord LAUDERDALE presented a Petition from. Sir James Scott, praying to be heard by,Coun4el against the Bill f or repealing the Curates'.'Suspension.Bill.— Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. teEDtiIISDAY, FEB. 3. . . -Mr. BATituttsT obtained leave to bring in a Bill for tho improvement of the Pat of Bristol. The American intercotir.o Bill went through a Conunittee, and the Report Was ordered to be re deived to-morrow. 1* ‘'Rose ga ve notice, that be would to-morrow move ror le4ve to bring in a Bill to amend the Trea . - .i7iry of the. Navy A te, pursuant to the recommenda tion of the Com Missioners of Naval Inquiry, The Currespondence between the B an k / Ui , reaora and the Chinicellorof. the Exchequer, was present ed to the 1-louse according to order. The Brazil Ship Bill was read a first : time, and was ordered to be read a seco n d t i me to-morrow. .An Account of the A mount of Exchequer„l3Uls fititstantling for the service of the year 1807, was or dered on the Motion of Mr. kinstustott. The House resolved itself into a Committee of Ways and Means, .IVlr. WARD in the Chair, and agreed to a Reaolution moved b Sur reg u l at i ng the b y Mr:Humis"' uty paid on Property, as far as relates to th e P laces and Pensions held ander Go vernment, particularly exceeding 1001. a-year. T he CHANC4L LOR o f the. Exciimweit. moved, that the Rev. J o h n W oodhouse do preach on the Past Day, on the.l7th inst. before the House; which , A , as agreed to. NAVAL ASYLUM. Sir C. POLE yose, in purs ua n ce o f hi s n o tice, to move f or leave to bring in a • Bill, that ail O ffi ces held in the Naval Asylmn shall be tilled by persons who bad served his Majesty in the Navy. - con sidered the institution now a public One,. and was therefor e of opinion that the Surgeons of the Navy, and other Officers, shall have the children under their care. 'He. knew that he would be told that as tht? Institution was originally supported by private s ubscription, therefore the Subscribers should have the appointments. There were near WO persons who served in the Navy, who now had not more than 401. a-year. ,He Would propose that none should be appointed who were not recommended by the Lords of the Admiralty, and who had not served certain number of years it the. Navy( He was also of opinion that the.Audlitor should be a Purser, some Naval. Officer, He was also of opinion that the Nlatron should be the widow of some Officer Who fell in the service of his Country. He under that e AA Offier, who served in the Navy 4tp- THE THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 180 plied to be Auditor to the Establishment, and wa! refused, and also the . IVidow. of a Captain; cif' the vy Na wile made application, to be k . gairon. He considered the Institution, as constituted at present, in many instance's - .a job, and to remedy, the .evil, he moved fur leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Mt passed last Session respeeting the Naval Asy lum at Greenwich. . , Mr. ROSE said, the Asylum was on the same plan of the Military Asylum at Chelsea. There were no rules pet for its government, but it was in tended to, propose the same rules as governed the Chelsea Hospital. He' was a • Commissioner, but never heard any Naval,Surgeon had applied for the Surgeoncy of the Asyltim and when the Matron's place was applied , for, he ktiew of no :'ivicloW of a Naval Officer having Made applicatWth fill the si tuation. The, Commissioners wet ti Vilely Naval , Gentlemen, who forted a large majority. He there fore objeeled to any 'such enatiment as the Hum Admlral propose& as .The Establishment originatad in a private subscription., and Lord St. Vincent and other Admirals were at its head, who would not Suf fer it to be abused. Mr. WINDHAM said the Military Asylum did what the Naval Asylum does not do, the Offices being filled by military people. Mk. THORNTON said there were three candidates for the situation of Surgeon ; one offered to give up his private pra&ice, but the Naval Surgeon would loot. Lord NiWARK agreed with what had , fallen from Mr. Rose and Mr. Thornton, as did also Sir LORDE. Sir C. POLE said there were applications made by naval persons for 'situations, and others . were pre ferred ; and as he . considered the matter tt job, he would, if he stood - , - alone, take ,the sense of the House on his Motiun. Sir I,:vAN NEVEAN ably defended the Establish ment. Mr. FRANKLAND was against the House dividing, and exprebsed a wish, as other business stOod for discussion, that the Hon. Admiral would withdraw his Motion. . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEWJER considered the Establishment originally as a priva'te charity. The King appointed Commissioners for the Asylum . , and in the warrant they were direaed to form instructions, which were in preparation, for the purpose of being presented to his Majesty. The House tlad heard that the Auditor had concinaed himself' well who was first appointed, and was therefore continued. — This certainly, he said, wassno job, neither was the case introduced with respect to the appointment of a Surgeon, a job. He therefore deprecated - the -. in troduetion of a Bill to interfere with the Royal war rant, on the grounds stated. The regulations would be laid before the Hotise, which, if not approved, his Majesty may be addressed on the subject. With the rastriaions the Hon. Admiral wished, - if ar proved, persons would offer who had ne other guar lineation- but that of belonging to the Navy: Lord TEMPLE was inclined to agree with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that 'the regulations should be first laid'before the House, and it was d 4.. after all that hod been heard, that the House Would not come to a hasty decision. He therefore proposed that the Hon. Member would withdraw his Motion, that:the'facts May be inquired into. Sir C. POLE acceded to 'the - postponing - his Mo tion, with an understanding 'that it would be 're considered. He then' moved for :a' Copy of the Warrant appointing the Commissioners; which was agreed to; and for an Account' of the Persons ap pointed Officers of the said Asylum, Salaries, &c. Ordered. He then Moved for a List of the Persons Who have made applications for O ffi ces in the Insti tution. • Mr. Ross objeSted; on the grounds that several resnectable Ladies, the Widows of Officers, applied for the situation of Matron, and lie submitted 'the indelkacy of laying their names before the House. The House divided fur the last Motion, Ayes 75, Noes Wu —Majority against it 115. EXPEDITION AGAINST COPENHAGEN.. Mr. G. PONSONBY rose to make the Motion of which he had had the honour to give notice to the House. ThOohjed he had in view was; principally, `to ascertain how far his Majesty's Ministers 'had been justified in advising . his Majesty to ,employ his Naval and Military Forces in the Expedition against Copenhagen. That this Was a subjea which peculiarly demanded the inquiry of the House, be was ftilly authorised to state on the Declaration issued by his Majesty himself, in the first clause - of which he declares that he owes to himself and Europe a frank exposition of the motives whiCh haddialated his conduct with regard to Denmark. It was scarce ly necessary for him., to say, that in speaking of the Declaration by his Majesty, and of the Speech from the - 'Throne, he meant to direct .his observations solely against his Majesty's Ministers; and he must also be understood, in speaking of the subject to which he Was about to call the attention of the House, to refer to his Majesty's Ministers, and not .to his Majesty himielf, to whose native reCtitude andfhonour ho was convinced that the transaCtion was as opposite as it had been disgraceful to the pro jeCtors of it, and disadvantageous to the Country. In order to consider, the subjea maturely, it would 'be necessary to inquire first, what the disposition of Denmark had been; next, what the condutt .of Russia bad been ; and lastly, what,tneans France 'possessed of executing. tiny projeit hostile to this Country, in the Baltic. It would he idle to enquire into the disposition of France, with. raped to this 'Country, for it was well known that the Ruler of that nation was well disposed to unite, all the force that hoco.uld against Great Britain ; but to justify his : Majesty's Ministers for the step that they had taken, it was necessary to ascertain, not the disposi , tion of France, but the means which France Fo, sessed of manifesting that dispoisition in a mann , r dangerous to this Country. In drawing up the' h. - solutions on which he should found his Al t-4 • .e.• • se Address to his Majesty, requestic the COI*I3II. nicatier; of such Papers as in his opinion would elts• cidate the subiett he had gone far back. In his Majesty's_ Declaration of the eoth of September, 1801; an allusion was Made to an apology stated to have been received from Detunark at the close of a former war, for having entered into a hostile confe deracy against Great Britain, which apology was grounded on the inability of Den Mark to resist the menaces of a great Naval Pourer. He had therefore frarnad a .Resolution for the purpose of procuring the substance , or copies of any communication re ceived from the Court of Denmark towards the close of the last, war, as also of' the apology alluded. to. He was desirene to .propose this Resolution, be cause his Majesty's Declaration charged Denmark with having entered Mao an hostile confederacy against this Country . , and with having defended that hostility by declaring .that she was compelled to do so by the threats of 'a great Naval PoWer. Eve 'std inquired on this subj'ed, and he, hart been told, perhaps erronteensly, the& the Court of Den merk sever did send such apt:l4;y • for theabandon meet of its neutrality. He was desirous, to know the faith, and he could not couceivat what objeCtion could be made to the produdiou of the se Papers, if they, tclually existed. The stransaClicat had, taken place about five years ago ;- there could be no appre , hensbn : of disclosing any source of secoht intelli gence; not any thing could be discovereil which, the Declaration had not asserted—that .asserTion he did sot believe to be founded on fill Ho . had shaped another Resolution, for the purpose of ast:er tainicg what information had been received by ftis IlLijeey's Ministers respecting the contled of Den mark, with regard to its naval force. He was de sirous that all the reports made during the last year by the King's Resident at Copeebagen,, as to the steps' taken by the Danes for aug menting the marine, manning their fleet, &c. should be laid before the House ; becapse, if. Denmark were really hostile to this country, and were disposed to mite. with France and Russia against us, she would unquestionably have exerted herself to put her naval force in a state of respe&aleility. The praCtice in Denmark with regard to their marine, he unierstoo4 to be this : the Danish sailors were obliged to inscribe their names in certain Z:ffices, so that the Danish Government knew at all times, pretty nearly, the amount of sailors in their do minions, as, if the sailors quitted Denmark, they were obliged to state. in what ship they went, and by these means, the Government knew the number - of their sailors, tied their distribution. in the differ ent parts of the world to wbicli they were carried by. the mercantile, marine of Denmark, The ex tent of Dana commerce, and the distant voyages undertaken by the Danish sailors, render it itnpossi .ble (or this aleists Me:eminent m man a con itilereble fleet at a short notice. It was not as in England, where, owing to the immense number. of (ear sailors, and the extent of our commerce, we were enabled by impressment and other means to fi t out and man a powertnlfieet in a few weeks. Den mark to du this must await the arrival 'of her mer chant fleets. If, therefore, Denmark had a6tually meditated hostility against Great Britain, it was im possible to conceive that she would not have denten .Stratedaltat lurking intention before the period of Lord Gambier's arrival in the Sound. He asked, alierefore, if his Majesty's . Resident at , Copenha gen Wad sent any advice to this erica ? His Ma jesty's Minister had told hint, that they meant to refuse au answer; he hoped the House .would not agree. with them. He also wished to know, if re ports had been received by his Majesty's Ministers from any Naval Officer employed in the Baltic dur ing the last year, relative to en _augmentation of the naval force of Danmark. It was matter of public notoriety,' that during the last year scarcely a week 'elapsed in which some Naval Officer of skill and re 'putation had not passed the Sound, in consequence of out•intercourse with Sweden, with Aussie, and even with finable until the power of that country had been demolished. It was hardly possible that any extraordinary naval preparations could have been made at Copenhagen, without their having been noticed by the expert and experienced Officers .to whom he alluded. If this information . Were, denied, why. was it denied ? because it did not exist ; because his Majesty's Minister at Cepen hagen, did not send home sny information of a pre -paration for hoStility in Denmark ; for he could .not have done so'with truth, bectiuse his Majesty's' Naval Officers had not noticed' any naval exer tions in the ports of Denmark, for no such exer-' times had .ben manifested. The House Ns - 6111d therefore, be justified in concluding that no steps had been taken by Denmark which had awak ened jealousy, or roused suspicion. He had made . it his business to inquire what ~had been ; the: con du& of Denmark with regard 'to her own ships and their valuable cargoes, which were in the ports of Great Britain at the very time that the Expe dition against Copenhagen was fitting out. When Admiral Gambier was preparing to sail, many of the Danish Captains hearing, among other ru mours, that it was as likely that the British force was destined against Denmark, as against any other placee-coesulted the, Danish Consul on the sub- Jed,. Jibe Consul applied to the Chamber of Corn ‘merees in .Copenbageit, a branch of the publie ad ministration of dovernment. He received for an- saver, that there was not the =angst ground for anxiety or alarm on, the part. of the Danish mercan tile inteN, , t, for that no such circumstancek existed ‘rviiien leaded to disturb the neutrality of Denmark, or to place her, in a state of hostility with Great Britain. At the tirne that this answer .wos re. eeiyed, there NA, ere 350 Dan4h Ships in ..13:itish port; w hose cargoes „ituounted to two milt ons stet". 'in. Was it possible to soppoie, that under these elrentnstances, when the Danish Government de an-el to her conitncrcrii interest that they need not thenbely-:1-rthat there wits no fear of . Oi • / 1 4 01 W - -4- S U , ..., , t , t 0 -.;..,,.4 V-: , , v' t ,~. tir . ‘. 0 .1•4 ,r (PRICE SIXPINCE . terrUptien s , of the good understanding with Great Britain issewas' it possible to suppose, that *hen a third of the commercial property of Denmark ' as in our hands, the Danish Government meditated' hostility against us ? Such a thing was incredible. But it was said, that though Denmark hersslf • might entertain no hostile disposition against t Britain, she was likely soon to be forced into a slate of hostility, and that, therefore, we were justified in seizing her marine, without any previous notice' to Denmark, and without atiy previous benaviour on her part to provoke us to that seizure:7-1f our . cond4 could• be at all justified on this ground, it tuuft be on the necessity of anticipating the views of the Enemy with regard to the Deriish Fleet. No writer on the Law of Nations, or on any other • law, or on common justice, had ever tuaintaitied that one Power could, be justified in taking from another . ' what belonged to it, unless a third Power meant, and was able to take -the same thing. The justifies tiee. of this step, therefore, must rest on the necessity of it, which would &pond en thtse eit•cumstances 'the weakness of Denmark, or her indisposition to re sist compulsion, the strength of her enemy, and the certainty that she must yield to its. fort'' , -:,k,lvary shadow of proof that- Denmark must hare Aided to a hostile Confederacy was out of theca,e. It war necessary to inquire .what were 'the .nissirts which France possessed of accomplishireg her abject. One of his Resolutions went tu ascertain what intbrmatioa, his Majesty's Ministers had received respettieg the • power that France possessed of seizinealie Danish Navy. If hie Majesty's Ministers k new' the intentions of France on this subjea, surely they were not .so negligent as tobinit othinforming themselves of her power to carry those inten tions into execution. What Was the relative situation of the two countries? At the tirrit, that Admiral Gambier sailed a great part of the Danisharmywas encamped in Holstein; aconsiderable French force:was also in thesame place. Thithdisposi tion of the two armies skewed , no intention in Den. mark to yield to France. Heti she . enttrtained such an intention, she would not adVance a force against a Freoch force. The question teen came to be,' Was the French force sufficient " to induce or couepel" (such were the terms of his Majesty's alciaration) Denmark to - yield to the views et France ? In his opinion it was utterly insutlicient. Let the Hutive consider the simation of Denrisark. She posseised considerable .countries on . the main. Continent .of Europe : but she had still more e valuables posseetions in Norway, the Danish Islands (on one of which her capital was situated), and considerable foreign colo. nies. Had France,. therefore, required Denmark to give' up her fleet, that it might be employed against Great Britain, what would Denmark hava'answered ? r" No,' you have no right `to make such a demand ; It is' a manifest usurpation on your part ; .if you make me choose between hostility with England and hostility with Franee, I prefer the lattsei for, it I quarrel with England, England can take from me all my foreign possessions; she c,:in injure my. ma• rine, and employ Sweden to attack ,tie in Nbrwey. It is, therefore, better for me to keep that which you cannot take from me, than to. sacrifice it by a war With England." This would have lken the conduit of Dentnalik, if the rashness and precipitation of his Majesty's Ministers bad not forced her into hostility against Great Britatn. - Were it asked, when we pro posed to her to surrender her fleet to us, and to mains tain her alliance with us; why did not she tiecedsi to that proposal, he would answer, that we had never made any proposal to Denmark which it waS possible for an independent State to accept. If, in private life, a similar proposal hatch- been made to any Gen tleman of that House, woul d it not have been cotisi dered an insult ? What did we say to the Danes ;he " Enter into an alliance with es—declare yourselves against: France, and.sremain . united to England—but first we limit deprive yousof your power ; tier we have so little confidence in your pod faith, that we will .conclude no treaty with you until you are dis pesseased of the means of infringing it. Saryou are, not worthy of credence; ratify' •your own le.. proach, and we will allow you to be our,friends." To such a proposition nothing but absolute conquest could ever Make a nation submit.' But what means did )France possess, of compelling Denmark tojoin the hostile Confederacy against England, if she were not inclined to 'do so'? It had been said, that France, having taken Jutland and • Holstein, might have marched an army across the Great Belt, when frozen, and have seized the Daiii,h , Flect. He had con sulted books, and other authentic sources of infer illation on the'snhie6t, and he did not find that any considerable force had pasied the Great Belt on the ice for above . iso years. it had rarely happened that even individuals had:been enabled to cross in that manner. It N'ai well 'known that the cold in most Of the European 'State is was not' now Aviiat it had heel]. The draining of morasses, ..the cut ting- of forests, and the general cultivation and improvement of countries had made great alters tious in their climates, se that not only bad no troops pissed the Great Belt on time ice during the years, but during the last (io, years no iristAise :had occurred in Which that arm of the sea had been 'so bound up by frost that a General ventuss ed to march an army across it. But even had ihso chanced' that a very hard frost had suggested to the French the idea of ntatehing across the Bet, what would have been the consequence .? • A Noble Lord had stated theother evening, there svere ae,otto roops in Zealand; certainly there were 30,en0 in Holes :l e i this amounted to 6J,0p0 Dines. The Swedes were their allies, and so were we ; and was it posseee France could have got a force eve* the Great Belt in spite of the Danish, Seedtili, andifritisli threes-unit ed ? Had the Belt not been frozen over the French would have had ne chance of geteng into Thteatties themselves could ire feskept them ont, and theretere to imegine the coututaff.; Dattish f Swedish, and British nyarine cuuld'As'otiltave prevented ti would be most childlibly abstird. As it was material to know what were the means which France Pc $ ess- LA . st 1 - id d ' , I M . ; • It"