The Sun. — London, England, 1818-04-11 00:00:00

PARLIA MENT. hOUSE OF LORDS, FRIDAY, APRII. 10. The House proceeded in Appeals. Mr. A RMITAGB presented the annual acecintit of the London Flour Company.—Ordered to lie upon the table. Petitions against the additional ilay - upon =-"Leather were presented by Lord CAW . DOt , from Carmarthen, and by the Earl FoatEs'ctrs, froth the &c. in Devonshire., and in the neighbourhood of Plymouth.—Ordered to iie upon the table. . . Tie Four Wheel Carriages Bill and the Irish - Corks Duty Bill were read a second time, and committed for Monday. On the motion of the Marquis of DOWNS HI RE, the Letter respecting a proposed Commutation for the Window Tax its Ireland, for. which he lately moved, was ordered to be laid before the House f out) with . Lord Viscount Stn . motrtt laid upon the table Rollie Abstracts respecting the Poor. CURRENCY.—BANK. RESTRICTION.. The Earl of. LAUDERDALE adverted to the mo tion of whi . th he had given notice respecting the Currency of the •COuntiy, and to what he had sub sequently said as to his uncertainty with regard to ht inning it' on, and observed that it was now t wi t ter of public not►►riety (and as• such he might allude to it, that House frequently taking cogni- Zunces of matters of public notoriety) that pro positions had been made in the first place to con tinue the Restrictiou on Cash , Payments at the bank of Englatn', and next to introduce what he must call altogether a new principle into Banking, and into the Currency Of the Country.' The last mentioned - proposition was so completely in in novation upon the mode in which the business of Busking haul hitherto been carried on, that it un doubtedly deserved the serious attention of their Lordships. Under these circumstances, he felt it his duty to bring forward for the clonsideration of the House, the present state of the Paper Cur- - rency as well as.•the Metallic Currency, which lie considered to be such as to require the most se tolls consideration of a committee of their Lord ships, for which he intended to move. He should • not now ,go farther into the subject, but merely intima , e, that nnderstanding Tuesday would be an inconvenient day for some Noble. Lords to at tend, he should bring forward his (notion on Thursday next, for which' dAy lie moved that the Lords. be suthruoned.—Ordered. • • FEES IN COURTS OF JUSTICE. The Marquis Of LANSbOiVN ' E rose; in pnrsuance of his notice, to move . for . an 'Address to the Prince - Regent, praying the communication of the Re ports of the Commissioners appointed by the Crown to inquire into the fees of the Courts of Justiee. His Lordship , said, That that House be ing the -highest Court of. Appeal in, the United Kingdom, the first in dignity, and the last in re sort, it was peculiarly their. prO • vince to investi gate the subject connected With these RePorts, . _ and the more so fro,m the extraordinary circum stances which had been. disclosed in the progress of the inquiry in one part of the United Kingdom. No one had the sfightest itica when these Com missioners were appointed, that there was :any conduct unfair or improper on the part of those learned persons who were at the head of the re spective Courts, and the Reports of the Commis sioners had only confirmed this impression by proving, that the Judges of the respective Courts ' where wholly free from the slightest blame. It was not to be supposed that•these learned persons, with the Multiplicity 'Of legal and judicial business which they had to transact,' could attend to the minutiae of the busjness transacted by the Clerks and Officers.of their respective Courts. Amongst this latter description of persons in Ireland, it was lamentable to find that the greatest abuses had arisen—extortions had been practised by some of tl.tese Feisons which were wholly improper, We . gal and unjust, anti by which suitors in the re spective Courts, most of them compelled to be come suitors by circumstances out of their own contront, and placed with regard to these extor ' dons in a helpless and defenceless situation, were grievously and shamefully oppressed. Even in some instances the orders Made by the Courts for the relief of suitors front a burden of expence, were converted hy the Officers, wholly contrary to the intent of them, into sources of new extortion, anal in others fees had been created by the bilkers without the slightest authority, and which because still more intolerably oppressive upon► the ssitors.-- Innumerable attendances • were also charged, without a single attendance attnalty taking place. In mentioning these abuses be was not speak ing of single instances, but of whole classes of Cases. The principal of an Office, whose-salary Was derived from fees, appointed a Deputy, who crei;ted new fees for his own: emolument, and that-Deputy again appointed a Clerk , fOr whos e . emolument new fees were again created, and thus were the suitors continually oppressed by new extortions , . Oppressive fees had also been • extorted, arising-out of Acts of the Legislature -which Parliament never had in its contemplation he meant the Acts 'imposing - stamp duties upon - law proceedings, - which were in themselves a Heavy burden. 1-le was aware that at the present moment no relief in this respect could be expect ed, but, he trusted the time would speedily come when they should have to consider froth what burdens they could relieve the - people, and in that case he hoped it would. be considered;that a re lief the most wanted and.the most necessary, was to diminish , the stamp duties upon law proceed ings, which, in fact, operated to levy a tax upon distress, the greater part of those who became Stqtors rn the Courts being compelled to it by un avnidallfe _circorristances. But the Officers to whom he had alluded.bad contrived to create ad- Alitional fee* arising out of the 'additional stamp duties, far hey9nd any thing the Legislature ever had in contemplation, by ,arrangements with re gard to•the'number of words in'asheet, or in other , modes. :finis in one instance, Where the sum accruing to the revenue was only 671. the fees el:eared out of it Were made to amount to up wards-Of 400/. ln another case respecting the Court of Error, in an appeal . lodged, the matter in dispute in which amounted to 3001. the clerk • Made a charge for office cbpiesaniounting - and.pwapplication to 'the Court, the Jnifges did not think themselves 'authorised to int-el . -fere, OA cent by intimating to the party applying, that he might, institute a suit akainst the `Clerk of the Court '; a remedy to commence which he inuttliave paid 4001. and then have been subjected to a the • uncertainty of legal proceedings ; he therefae'tle • clineLaltogether prosecuting his suit, and gave up the matter in dispute. In addition to this was the - practice of the taxation of costs, which was effected by _ persons either directly or indirectly interested in their 'amount ; and one instance ex isted where the bill of charges was estimated by the very person who 'was to receive the amount. -I.le had thought it necessary to State these in stances, for the purpose of she Wing that it was highly incumbent 'upon the House to desire the production of -the Reports alltided to ; anti he trusted he should hear from Ministers that some steps had been taken to correct the evils which had arisen from theseabuses. His Lordship also ad verted to the gross neglect irt keeping the Records of Fines and. Recoveries in Ireland, and to the practice of exacting different Sums in different cases, according as the At tornies were disposed to pay, and concluded by moving the Address a's fore mentioned. The Earl of Ltvearoot. said, it would not be anticipated that he rose to oppose the motion, which, on the contrary, had his cordial allpport. It was, however, highly satisfactory to observe, as the Noble Marquis had admitted, that no charge whatever had arisen against the Judges in any pant of the United Kingdom. It should also be distinctly understood, that the extortions, in the shape -of fees, as alluded to by the Noble Marquis, and stated in the ',Reports, did not at all exist in either England or Scotland, but was confined to Ireland. Upon this subject it was undoubtedly the duty of the .Executive to interfere, to correct the abuses that existed; and it was also the duty of Parliament to interpose, if those abuses were • not remedied by the acts of the Executive. With regard to the Reports on the subject of Ireland, the first related to the Court of Chancery, and it had been submitted to the-highly respectable indi vidual who held the office of Lord High Chan cellor of Ireland, and to the Master of the Rolls. The Commissioners had not merely stated the abuses, but had also in many instances suggested re medies, and at rangements had been made for the purpose of remedying the abuses. The second Report related to the office of Uletk of the Pleas in the Court of Exchequer. Their Lordships were aware of the situation in which this officer stood ; the question respecting the right of ap pointment to the office had been determined by the Courts its Ireland in favour of the Crown, but an appeal against that decision had been lodged in their Lordships' House, and of course, while that appeal was pending, no regulations. could be carried into effect with regard to the of fice itself. In the•tnean time an Act of Parlia ment had been passed, for the purpose of im pounding the fees of the office until the ultimate decision of the cause, and the Daputy, against whom many complaints had been made in the Report, had been dismissed. The third Report related to the Court of Error, and this Wad been referred to the Judges of Ireland. The fourth Report had been recently made, and the fifth and sixth were in preparation, and would soon be forthcoming. Upon this subject, he should only observe, that the Commissioners had faithfully and honourably executed the duties "imposed upon them without favour, fear, or affection ; and with regard to the abuses discovered, alI persons, what ever might be their political differences of opi .nion, were agreed in condemning them. The in terest taken with respect to this question must af ford a new proof to the people of Ireland of the benefits lo be derived from their Union with Great Britain, and the advantages accruing to them from the exertions of the Imperial Parlia ment to remedy any abuses that affected their interests The Earl of LAUDERDALE expressed his satis faction that no abuses had been, discovered in Scotland similar to those which his Noble Friend had detailed as occurring in Ireland, hut he trust ed it was not true that offices in Scotland, which the Commissioners in Scotland had declared ought to be abolished, had, on vacancies occurring, been since filled up by new appointments. There should alto be some limitation as to the time wirbin which the Commissioners should conclude their Reports, otherwise it was possible their continuance at a considerable expense to the coun try might become a worse job than any job they contributed to remove. The rnoiion was agreed to.—Adjourned till Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mt. JOHN SMITH presented a Petition from certain Printcrs of the City of London, praying some . amendment in the Copy Right Act.—Read, and 'ordered to lie on the table. Admiral FRANK presented a Petition from the Cotton Spinners of Manchester, in favour of the Bill for Restricting the Hours of Labour itt Facteries.--Read, and ordered to lie on the table. COTTON MA NUFA CTO R I ES. " Sir ROBERT PEEL rose to present a Petition from the Cotton .Spinners and others of the town of Stockport, of the same nature with, the last,. which he thought particularly deserving of the attention of the House, as among the Peti tioners were Master Cotton Spittners themselves. One of them was Mr.. Eltwhistle, a Gentleman with whom lie had been long acquainted. The Petition was signed too by eight medical Gentleinen, whose opinion was strongly in favour of the Bill whicb he had introthiced. The Petition was then brought up and read. Sir JAMES GRAHAM rose to caution the House against allowing much weight to this . 'Petition, which he knew was principally signed by'discarded and worthless workmen. Hi.s .opinicrn against the Bill and in favour of free labour. re ..raained unchanged. Were it not for the. principle of free labour he would never have had the honour of being where he now was. Mr. CURWEK spoke against the Bill, and against the.po -licy of Parliament interfering to restrict the freedom of la bour.• *He thonght, certainly, that the hours of labour in Cotton Maanfactories were unreasonably extended; but if a Bill-was introduced to limit the hours of labour to Tleverr, the next thing would bean application to reduce them tii ten. . Sir It. PEEL said, the Petitioners were persons of great re spectability—many of them Clergymen, and all of them en titled to. the attention of the House. • Mr. BUITERWORTH said, that many persons in the North . of England' had a'ssured him, that if the hours of labour in' Cotton Factories were not restricted, the'next generation of the persons employed in them would be a most degenerate race.. . Mr.' K. FINLAY maintained that the evil complined of was inherent in-the manufacturing system, and was not pe culiar to Cotton Manufactories. Therefore, if the evil was . . general, any remedy which .tnight be thought proper should be also general. But the Hon. Baronet (Sir lt. Peel) who had introduced the Bill now before the House, on this sub ject, proceeded on principles perfectly erroneous; for there were other principles tit which the Legislature ought to allow dne weight as well as those of hiunanity. ,• Mr. C. WYNNE said it was no ol4jection to the measure ficirc under the consideration of Parlianrent, that it would not ,:ketnove a),l the evils of excessive lhtour. It was sufficient that it Wastalculated to put an end tn. t he' practice of t';•ork ing beyond their strength children and Persons incapable of prOtecting themselves. 71'he Petition was then ordered to lie on the table. Mr. LITTLETON presented a Petition front the High She riff and Grand Jury of the County of Stafford, praying that the law authorizing what was commonly caned " 610.'0-mo ney," or a 'reward to Ee pnid to persons who apprehended of fenders, 'bight he `repealed. He thought it necessary to say, that his own opinion was not in favour of an unqoalified re- Teal of the Act in question, fOr he thought the interest of the public would be best consulted by authorizing, under certain restrictions, rewards for the apprehension of of fenders.—The Petition was read, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. Alder Man WOOD presented a Petition from the Free Waterine❑ of the different Stairs, praying that the Bill to authorize the building of the iron bridge at Rotherhithe may not pass into a law.—Read, ant! ordered Co lie on the table. Nit.. Alderman WOOD presented seven PetitibiiS, from Newcastle under-Line, and other places, praying for Re form.—Read, and ordered to lie oti the table.. Mr. PEEL presented a Petition from the It iyal College of Stirgeons in Irela►id, against the Bill now before the House for Regulating the Profession of Surgery.—Read, and order ed to lie on the table, cud to lie printed. Mr. EGER'I'ON presented a Petition from the Cotten Ma nnfacturers of the County of Chester, in laronr of the Bill for restricting the Hour? of Labour in Cotton Manufacto ries. —Read, and ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. 14r. BARCLAY presented Petitions from the Parishes of St. Botelph's and SI- SaViOur's, Southwarh,and Christchurch, in Surrey, against the Poor Laws' Bill, its its present shape — Read, and ordered to lie on the table. The Committee on the Steam Boat Regulat!tin Bill was postponed till Monday. The second reAing of the Purchase 'of Game Bill was postponed to this day sennight ; and the second reading of the Copyright Bill was postponed till the same day. The further consideration of the Report of the Cotton Manufactories' Regulation Bill was postponed to this day •e'nuight. POOR LAWS. -Mr. S. BOURNE moved the re-commitment of the Poor Laws' Amendment Bill, fur the purpose of making some amendments and alterations in it, .which might be now agreed to pro forira, and discussed on the Report. The liouse then resolved itself into the Committee, in which some amendments and alterations were agreed to. The Report was then received, and ordered to be taken into consideration on Monday, when it was agreedthat the amend ments should be discussed. The Order of the Day for the further consideration of the Report of the Parish Vestry Bill having been read, it was agreed that it should be recommitted for the same purpose as the Poor Laws' Amendment Bill. The, Bill was then recommitted, and several alterations and amendments proposed and agreed to pro Toting: The Report was then received, and was ordered to be taken lot° further consideration on Monday, when the . amendments and alterations are to be discussed. MILITARY OPERATIONS IN INDIA. Mr. HowoaTta rose for the purpose of asking some information front the PreSident of the Board of Control, With iefeTenc-e,to Ole ac counts which had been recently received from a Gentleman who had arrived from India. These .accounts stated, that two battles had been fought between the East India Company's forces and the Native YoWers: It appeared that the troops of the Company, which, according to a treaty, had been received on terms of amity by the Peisliwa, and stationed in his territories, had been suddenly, attacked by an army of 40,000 Mahratras, and although the force thus attacked was composed of only 4000 of the Company's' subsidiary troops, tliCv succeeded, notwithstanding the immense dis parity of numbers, in repulsing •the enerny, after a severe conflict and great slaughter. A few.days mho wards x - the Company's troops tieing strength ened by reinforcements, in their turn attacked the Mabrattas, who were driven back,"and completely defeated. But it %vas-stated Chat two British Of ficers fell into the hands-Of the'Peishwa, and that they were by him immediately plan) death. On such occasions it had always been usual for Go- vernment, as soon as possible, to publish correct accounts of such events. No such accounts had yet been published by Government. He there fore. wished to know whether the intelligence to which he referred was founded on fact ? At the same time he hoped that Government would take the earliest opportunity of publishing official re nuns of the killed and wounded, for the relief of those who had relations amongst those who had been engaged in these battles. But he under stood that, in addition to -what he had stated, in telligence of still greater importance had been re ceived, from which R appeared that the Rajah of Bahrar had followed the same Course - as the Peish wa, and had fallen on the sabsidiary.force sta tioned within his territories. He wished to-know whether this was true; and if it was, what had been the result ? Mr CANNING said, that' so far as his infoima lion extended, he would Stiecinetly .- answer • the . questions of the Hon. Gentleman. It was un- -. doubtedly true that the Peishwa had. commenc 7 ed war against the forces of •the East India Com pany. It was true that two actions had been ' fought, which, notwithstanding the disproportiou in numbers, had both terminated decidedly•in fa your of the British forces. But it was not true that the slaughter had been great in proportion to. the disparity of numbers. As yet no such returns - ..., had been received, as it would. be proper to under the authority of Go.'etnment ; and the Hon. Gent. must admit the' impropriety of Government sanctioning the publication of any returns of the correctness of which they were not assured. The Hon. Gentleman. Must know, that it Often happen ed that private intelligence from India out-run the official dispatches; and such had been the case in the present instance. - There were • some of the facts which the Hon, 6elAlet p ail mentioned, of which, morally speaking, he had no 'doubt, but as to which, if he were asked to speak. offieially to their truth, be could say nothing. He did not believe that a single officer had been killed in either of the actions, but he believed that three officers had been wounded ; but of the names of those officers nothing was knoivn but through a copy of the Bombay Gazette, which bad been re ceived in town, but of which, it might appear strange to state, no copy had been received by Government. He believed it to be trite that two' individuals had suffered death by order of the Peishwa, and that one of those individuals was a British officer, • and that they had not .fallen in action. As to• the Rajah of Bahrar, all that was known respecting his,proceedings rested on the authority of a private letter without -any date. • If he was asked whether he' believed the statement in that letter, he would reply that he did be lieve it—if asked whether lie could state this 'CJ ofliciafly, be intst reply that #ll' The account only stated that the troop 51 11 the Rajah had been feP"ised. navi„gre this much, hwi e Shed the Il ot iourable mn to und - erstand that he had no disposit io :o , withhold any intelligence Of wltch be was session; nor, had any ChiogO wi e n done t"0ly spect to that intelligence, in Oh not bei 4P fl ir fished, which was not strictly according t"bstl cedenr. Singulir as it might wear , it tiever l a been the practice to notice the iratisactioalo India to Parliament, even inspeechei frost o throne, unless when some particular cot e4l 1 C that subject was suggested by the Crown ; iofit the same time he was so desirous to furni sh information of which he was in p o ssession,o respect to the transactions in ques tion, fbeiL i ft e lot Hon. Gentlemen would frame any al°" - fort havingthe purpose of that information laid bet/ the House, he would be happy to agree t°Ud Or if the lion. Gentleman would do him tije 01 1 to communicate with him privately I t ico subject, he might enable hint to frame a 111 " 0$ so as to have the information laid bef ore House. / tight Mr. HOWORTH said lie felt obliged to tberol Hon. Gentlemau for the information wi" c n tt had given, and lie %void(' avail himself of th e ;ot of the Right lion. Gentleman to CO with hint on the subject. hi° After a, few words from Lord MoitrE l ' o,4 ;64# could not distinctly be heard, the con ves " dropped. MU:AM OF PRIVILFGE• ill! ',Lord A. iIAZ,IILTON, in rising, pnrsOnnt tile; notice, said he was aware ht)*-disagreeB: 6 0 was td introduce to the notice of the 141-414, i apparent breach of privilege. But be "% hi far guarded liiillSelf, in the present instance, t ilt he gave his not ice, and• lie would now st° te det cause on ‘vhicla lie intended to found hi s ' 11°. .) 0 in such a way as would alleir the House 1 1 t4-6 Meant nothing personal to the Noble L"r a % . $ 0 .4 was implicated in the transaction. lie %•" s .,' l : i v! at ' that the freedom and independence of rao i ' } o was the source of all its power, and, th e 4 (le 7iti' that whatever might be the result of the r:Oly gation which he would propose, he woeld t ) `‘ c a:t sidered to. have done no more than dischargleijoi duty in bringing the case before the House . I v o% • reproaches . had been cast upon the slate ° I re ko sentation in the House by petitioners. 1° I be he had always thought that the best an swer : 4 ° l 4 given was the conduct of the H o use, in re s— , in all attacks upon its rivileges, by interfetetleibis the election of its Members.. To at tacks °, p d./ kind the country with which lie vvas co,,nect-oe ! lie meant Scotland—was peculiarly exP ( " ed of t case which he had now to submit to the 0 0 : e t ea this subject regarded the representattan (, o i county which he had the honour to rePreftfe• (Lanarkshire). Two years ago Sir A, Coch",l,l' re' dared that he would stand Candidate f or "; r al presentation of this county at the next g j e t - e el f election. Since that time a keen contes t ha ' i i i e 1lt; carried on between the Hoti. Adinir 3l and 'l-01 self, and their minim! friends. In the colm e io this contest lie was justified in saying tha r t t t a i : i whole interes t of every agent .and every Pa-lifira of Government had been . exerted tagait ilt , i i (Lord A. H.) The continuance of the co otess - T , .probably irritated in an unusual degree the r",:i tical feelings of;both , parties. Though in 110 respects he had met '‘'v ith unusual opposition, 0 notice which he had given reerred to wlO t e conceived to be an instance of utilair a nd i'ner ' t per exercise of political influence directed ktObie himself. He had communicated to the N't) ti' Lord who was implicated, that it .was his f i c ''t i e te lion to bring the matter before the 1-101 1 s e t .''' ;hog ng mons, as he had no hesitation in asset . " i,l 111 5 it amounted to a breach of the privileg es -- ii - Id House. The Noble Lord to whom he B " u ` a Clue WO was Lord Douglas. He would read to Care n a letter, in e which such circumstances were ! as be thought could leave no doubt in th e /40 6 of the House that the privileges of th e :ell had been infringed upon. The case W 35 er so o simple.. The letter was written by 3 , I n ' n lor, of the name of Fergusson,- who was e ,' - ' es ed as the factor of the Noble 1•°"' 1 :els who was the person - whom he concur` of die most likely to write 'under the infleence °:, if ii Noble Lord, but especially when it UV tIS Or e i l if expressed in the letter that it was written b i t o rfl authority. When he informed the I , ' l " b ‘ le ,., th e that ire intended to bring the matter bei°,'-aeli House-, he received an answer from tbe, - ia% Lord 'containing a very general denial of I t`' ref, given any , authority to the writer of th e le „ - c c 4 ' and expressing that the Noble Lord felt the -'-- the sation to he an•unfair one. This was r ose of case, He stood forward, not for the en..P,.Ael;i s makingaan unfair accusation, hut to dil c ifons e ° ditty:by vindicating the privileges of t li TV when he 'found them directly attaeltet'• too' Noble Lord denied that he had given anY:,t to i i e city to Mr, Fergusson. Now he wished 1 Or d is t i o ctlyaniderstood, that when the :N.7 obte ,. rt"' • 2. 4 . asserted the very reverse of that which wsl ,: r se B o/ ed,by another person, he never entertaine A " of doubt that the assert ton of the Noble b u i r : 'air the truth. But at the same time, when t ': - ,, he ,• ' ctimstanties were so very strong on otie sid e , did not feel himself justified in omitting to °it' be attention of , the Muse to it. Nothing to more strong thtm the letter he was about ": 1 s of t en In what he said to the House he very tnne a -uit ter t ell his expressions, in consequence . of which he had received from the Nob le lic le conta ined' s ' lo g which, so far as he understood it, nial of the charge. But if it sho u ld appea r t o 1 4 • he had misapprehended that letter, then be 7 - , il e lf very much change his language i n ra rking ot s( ' r a transaction. The Noble Lot d then read the P i i ter, which was slated the 2-lih May, 1817 ' s4f° ili o " Thomas Fergusson," and addres sed to " not If fort 'O, Dyke, Esq." one of• the freeholdees county of Lanark. The letter was to the fog ° ing effect : ,',04 1 " Dear Sir—According to y our desire, I hare connroinic'oc the lei ot, at length to Lord Oringlas vonr,wrin to obtain a situatiotoffi your yonfig blend Mr. Dykes, and I an authorised bY_hip'S Dongdas to state to you, that if you will support his Luill',, o ur views i a n v p t :i . lt t ic li s g f i i i t o t e li s e it t u i t;,xtti(l):.ll,ac,,tii:;riiil l ‘ivei w il iLl e pi t. , o r u ci i i i tS , t f o l, :i iy, t' friend tended with vet y great ail% aatages, As you are pertec t 2 7 elti` dependent, if you hare not mail,. any promise to Lord •-•1 soft bald Hamilton, you mar, I think, get of from wb at Y t ut -, / fill' as you certainly bare b e ' en ill used. Therefore, if '',, n: ,,', 2 ? cation is made to you from the Hatuiltoft family, 1 " u ' L i\)A