The Sun. — London, England, 1810-12-28 00:00:00

be kiS or lei ►a rr- 20111 of Orange at first refused to avail hiinself of the of fer made to him, until he had collected all theadvice which he could collect, and then he' did consent. - Even then, hot ever; treat iionbts had arisen upon .the subject;. and in the beast of one•of the - greatest lawyers of toe cay, my Lord Nottingham, existed some doubts as to the legality of assembling tnent ; but those doubts, upon . mature 'discussion - and d.. liberation in the House, were over-ruled, and tters were writterr to the-Prince of Orange ; bUt . he must contend; that .before that step was - adopted, great hesitation arose in the r Con en ti Oil What was the course of -"proceeding on that occa sion ? Why, - they came to: the. - deterrnination first, that . the King had;abdicated the Throne; and the . ineXt consideration was,. and it was obvidna.to the fir S t. constitu, lona' lavocerS of • the siiite, that the :bext in succession shohl , l - be placed on the Throne. They therefore declared the :Throne vacant ; not 'Only vacant, but had been abdicated by the Icing ; they alsO'dtclared that. the next in succes- Sion should be restored, amid restored he was ac&rd ingly. With this view of the proceedings and situ ation of the Thioi • e in 1688 y were, the House pre pared to say that the ca-e applied now ? It ,was true that thii; CQUilir• was religiously and indeed , bigotedly fond of the. precedent of 1 . 688 : but it 'would not becoine the House, in the excess of that faniness, to apply that precedent' mischievously. The Great Seal was not then in - exi4tetice..--t here was rho Sovereign by • wbom that instrument could be used, or n whose name it could be created- • —the thing was impossible, because the King did not then ex'st. The Case was nor so• now ; his Majesty's political capacity was as , ntire now as at any time of ..his lite. The cases, there fibre, to which the Noble liaroeiliad-alluded, were not at all anal , gouS„ and those who supported thr' Address , were for establish- ing tried itegency without • the consent of the Royal Authority. Such 411 e.tArlishnient might be neces sary in an cxiteme case, but it would Well become , House consider, whether the necessity was now tdf the tit tit e -createl.• The only cases which could I .n the least bear were those of Henry the Vitt)", in lc ;HT- übstitution of 'Proteetor was necelhoi meth being . an i , dant) without ii . ed interposition Of 'l.le ROyal Authortq. In a C it.llle death ot Henry V. the successor betOgihen only 9 moOttis old, the DiAes' of BAtord acid Gloucester Were rained for the Re.• gency ; but the DO, e of 13,-dtk.nd being out of the, Icsugdoln, Pruteet rs, ip d-vobtiupon,the Duke of Gloucester. the young 'King,: in Commission, baying staied his own incapacity «i goverti. The text instance was in the 3vid of the same King ; the state Of the royal mind was such, that it was then deetned ei;ieclient to 'lssue a :Go'rirrnission 'to declare the reasons wite-h-induced the inc .basely tie Kte,;, ti d the ,Duke of York was .ippo , .ted Pieted:Or or 'tan:. Rea,in. If such was. the course of proceedings then, which were thoes;thou...l) distant„ tlo solo. measure: bore analo4y, it WdS s,'ea that , the Royal Anthonyi - was necessary for prow ding for the uotorturotte .sit nation into .v bid) toe King had ' fallen. Win respect to the Houses ot Parliament, they could not, as isad been -asserted, be denominated the two Stares of toe hey were, intact, the I-louses of Parliament, regularly coavened by the' liiog's autluirir w hen, Nord-- Lords, therefore, t;-talks d,t t,s hp. ech of his iNijesty being the Speech of ;\l,nis r., Joey forget thai having, by their as sent, ad_iprtd it, it of c, •urse was the speech which it purported to ue.—To be sure while Under • discus- sion it migto ne so called ; but when once, adopted,, it became, by their vote, to all Intent• arid purposes the King's s oech, and by lime recor , ,t ot , Parliament was so. What was tole . 6ation of 11 ) . c oun try now ? it could not be denied that toe caLi sty was great 211 d grievous, a•id the didiulties which arose with respect to the appOiwinent of . 4 - .11 , -igeot equally so; but st would be as examitie the extent to All(11C11 the race( dings would go. In the first plaCe it was prnposd, issuer the resolution,„ that the is og had op .tied his Parliament. Was there any gi eat dithcluiy in that propo,i: toss ? That, then be tut, ibionited, Parliament ti.:en bein4, summoned by King convened by Proclamation. What was ineaor by being legaly, convened, was that it should be opened by, .the King's sumnionii—that was le gaily done in the present case. Would any mot say to the ~oriarary? The precedent w?rs complete as to the opening of Pari:ainent. The oext ques lion w-ulu be, woether in providing for the de - Lciency in the Executive, is sh,,ald he presumed that the Sovereign tithing it for granted that the Palliament was regotarly opened) would pia his negative spin the proceedings of the other twbbratiches of the Legislature, by Bills, and refuse his assent, ter it' must be prestitueci, his judg iiient Must he in the affittnative: As to ihe _ques tion .of lestriatung, he was disposed to think, that his Dilajsty would, in the exorcise of his royal autho rity, be iticlitied to depart troirt the steps of his pre ' decessors, or from the precedents even its• his.own reigns It would. be found in 'the -preamble to the. Regency Bill, that nut a condition - of the restric tions were obJe6ted• to, and therefore he could not suppose that now any objeetiou - would be started to that preamble, 'Which had in a sirnilar case been assented to before. He could not See•that in so doing, the House would neover-ruling the _Royal Authority, lessening the dignity of the Crown, or dimming its lustre. 'They were placed : in :this pre , dicameni, that 'the precedent of 688, 'was not - only not -applicaUle, but - in its principles and views diame tricall) opposite to the pr, sent case. In this view he 'could not stae ally thing shots of this : tnat by vot ing for the Address,- the House would pledge them selves to a vote which, in effect, would be a total dereliction of duty to the King. He deprecated 'arty of that acrimonious debate Willett . Was the conse quence of proceecings in 1788, and to which het was a witness, The Only safe .and constitutional mode of proceeding was br Bill, and convinced, that,he should'inelely do , his duty," in voting fur the :, .. proposition of Iris Nob.e Friend, he, cave it his - -':livattv consent. . .., as It. H. the Duk'e of YORK rose, anti spoke I t 4 to Lie following erfeCt ::,--". 11.0%iy,v,er unwilling I feel to troubie yuur Lordships, or - to encroach 'ui.ou your' tune, I cannot but . consi4er-tue Present an - oc= cation upon which I owe to tuyself lo_ state the grounds which influence my conduct in the vote '-- ' "filch I shall give this evening: .l have under the :kesetit melancholy circumstances telt, as >I did 1.1n ,--Y\- ' - those of the sallies painful nature which occurred . ' ",:-. -,, ~ , ty-two years ago, that it would be weak and , . . ~ . -mpg to shriuto from the public assertion of -.i: principles which T then entertained and supported, and in the maintenance ofswhich I have been con firmed by subsequent consideration and experience; nor am I, I can assure' your Lordships, gnided in the line which lam induced - to . take, by the fear of appearing inconsistent, for, if any consideration, carrying conviction *to my 'mind of the fallacy of former opinions, had produced i in the interval, a change in my sentiments, I declare that I should consider it as mean and unmanly to hesitate a mo ment in Candidly admitting such to be the case ; but I continue deeply impressed with the opinions I then held.of the mistaken principle, the dangerous tendency, and the eventual mischief of the measures which are now proposed, and I am led by every feeling of duty and attriehthent 'to my beloved Fa ther, of the solicit ude.for the preservation .of the rights of the Crown, and of regard for the Con stitution of these 'Realms, to deprecate the adoption of a course which appears to we highly detrimen tal to objects so justly dear to us all,. No indisidual Can feel more than I do,' my Lords, the critical si tuation in which' this, country is - placed, by a-cala mity which none . can more seriously deplore. Seri ous as the difficulties appeared upon the folmer - occasion, they are 'equally increased upon the pre aeet, by 'the pressure of the dines, and by the ar• duous; yet proud struggle, which this country is stipporting,• not solely for its osvn .honour and in. dependence, but for that of the only people on the Continent, which scorns to submit to tyranny and oppression. 'Ours is a hoice difficulties, iny Lords, and imperious necessity alone can war rant the steps - we are about to take. With these prin ciples, my Louis, I most cone;ientiously and cheer tuilv give my vole fir the adjournment, in the hone Old 'Divine Providence Might still avert tie- mate fold evils of which" I - totesee the occurred, e, by re storing our beloVed Sovereign, to his attached and atli:cied people, before any 'aeided medsur , -1 were obliged to be taken ; and with the sAtrie principles, my Lends, I do not scruple to say, that in my anxi ous wish to allow etery possible time for his Ma j,:sty's re-establishment, I should have readily voted fora forsher adjournment, if such ead been proposed by those who have been in the enjoyineet of his . Majysty . s confidence, and to whom I give credit tor a dispusit:on not to run too great a risk of incur ring any serious difficulty or embarrastrient to the State, by postponlog to too distant a period the con sideration of measures which must, tinder the con tinuance of these melancholy circumstances, be come ultimately necessary. Uotortunately that pe riod is now arrked, and anxious as I should be to see that necessity a ver t e d, eagerly and joyfully, as repeat, I should hail ,he day when it ceased to ex ist, yet after - the evidence of his Majesty's Pllysi 'clans, which lies upon your Lordships' . table, I am tar front wishing to stieet ion by my vote any impedi ment to the general and inclis e ensable object. But, 'my Lords, 1 object to the mode and the principle .upon which it is proposed to carry that. object into erfed, as being, in my opinion, unconstitutional, deingi, : itory to tee dignity of the Crown, and 'subs versive of those rights, which, if, they. are now indirectly infringed in 'the person of the King's substitute, ss ill no .longer be in the same degree `secure nom &tett attack.' I deny the authority, the validity of the principle, by which the two' Estates 'of the Realm‘ can substitute a phantom for the prescribed reality, .and can assume to themselves a power of establishing an ad fur .which, by the principles and the acknoWletVd ftirms of the Constitution, the sanction of : the third, still existing, although actually odortnant, is particu larly required ; and I therefore adhere to that mode' whichsis not liable ,to the same 'objedion, I Mean an address, submitting the resolutions, if' such are considered to be necessary, which may have passed, and which being accepted by the Re gent, will not be less binding upon them, or might at any rate be made so by a'subsequent Act, when the third branch of the Legisiature had beep re stored to activity. 'Having thus briefly stated to your Lordships toy objections to the form of a Bill, I must odd that I feel equal repugnance to any, re sti ietions which it may be proposed to impose upon the exercise/of the power conferred on the Argent during the continuance of the present ealamity, for I do toot reckon an arrangement Ibr the care. of his Majesty's person as a restrietion on the Regent. I consider them not less dangerous in principle than in precedent, and I conceive tnat these are not the times wheu the Executive Power, •(titesdy sunjed to difficulties from 'its temporary nature (ind tempo rary I trust in God it will prove), should be still fur ther embarrassed and weakened by restrielioos, which are not less unbecoming than I our persuaded they would prove unnecessaty furl trust. and be i . liert, that the Prince of Wales, being intrusted with the full exercise of that temporary authority, will :fee, that if is consistent with his own honour . and future interest, as . well as with eve r y principle of duty and attachment to . the King, to conduct himself in such a manner a, to restore that authority to his Father free from abuse, aisd unlettered by any . Act which shall have been inconsistent with the prin ciples upon which shall have been hither exercised, or emuarrassing to it i OP. the resumption and further ad- Ministration. The merits of . the present question, - upon which I have briefly, and, I, teat, sery imper•• fedly, delivered my sentiments, have been,. and will be, so ably and fully discussed by others of your Lordships, who are More competent to the task, that it now only remains for me turther to declare, which I do Bloat soleMnly, that in the linewhich have taken, I am wholly uninfluenced by any other consideration than a conscientious principle, origi nating from conviction in My 'own breast, that e my object has ever been, and ever will be, to support, by every nleans in my power, the true interests of my beloved Parent and Sovereign, and of his realms, which I must ever consider as one, and to prove that I never have suffeied, nor even can suffer, any personal consideration, or any view of future pro ' spe6t, to weaken those feelings of duty,and attaeh ment ,which are natural to every son, and which are indelibly impressed on my mind by every sentiment of the warmest gratitude and veneration lot his per son, as well as huMble adrifiration of those virtues which have, marked his public conduct, net. mute than they have adorned every act of his pri vate life." Earl MO/RA congratulated the House upon the speeches 01 the two Royal Dukes, which did honour to their It yal Highnesses. He hailed with joy the pledge which the two illystrious Persons had given of their determination to support the great princi pies of the Monarchy, and to preserve them .un touched, as the great right of thepeople, to be exe ercised by the _Sovereign for the benefit of the . country at large. Twenty-two years ago he had the honour of proposing an Address, sireilateto the one now proposed by his Noble Friend, And he had often occasion to review the motives which had urged him to submit that proposition, and with these motives he 'Was perfectly satisfied. The No ble Lord- opposite .had just read to the House a long dissertation of precedents, which were wliody in applicable to the present case, with a view to the best interests of the country. In what did the No ble Baron's speech consist ? Why, in uplisalding a dodrine which the Constitution mast abhorred in principle—a doctrine which, by a strong bar, it had taken care to guard against, viz. the assumption of that power which in either House must b e t ak en as a very deep infringement oftthe rights of the people. Was it not an infringement upon the Constitution, if either or both Houses of , Parliament should pre sume to exercise the King's sentineht , ' Was the Noble Baron aware of the extent p !' that as-. sumption might go ?' Did he not see here was no limitation to that principle, and that in effect it might go to the total extinction of the best parts of the M.onarchy—that if such excuses were to be to lerated, the Sovereign would thereby become in the lands of certain • persons an obedient ins rurnent, if they could secure to themselves a majority in Parliament ? The State would then be au Oligar chy, and there would be lambing to protect the people from the malver ! ations of the Ministry.— The,Noble Baron, in his speech;- had touched upon the most material point to which his Noble Friend's audiess pointed, viz. the right of Parliament to de cide upon questions of this nature. The a2judicie flue ef Parliament by address was secured by it.— There was a great 'difference between the two modes proposed, for by the Addres4, delay would be pre vetoed. The Noble Baron had stated that the-ex ercise of those powers which was vested in the -So vereign for the benefit of the people, ought not .to he in tbe Regent. - It . was easy to see what species of Government - the Ministers wished to create.— What .was the fact ? - The Prince .of: Wales had never• shewn any desire to take ehe Regency on himselt ; lie had not made any communication upon the subjece—had not in any way taken part in the business. The tiOuse well -knew that thesexigency of the case alo e n e \- made them recur to hilt,. He would not suppose for one moment that there was any man so weak or so wicked as to wish to bring forward any , other person to fill the Crown—that he could .not suppose. It was therefore a sltuation . of political .necessity, arising from a combination of unfortunate circumstances in which the country was 'placed,' embarrassing in the extreme. In this situ ation the two Houses come forward, and they call upon the Heir in succession to the Throne to take upon himself the Executive office, to extricate the elatlou from the dilemma which it stands through the ill conduct of the Government.. With this de site seas coupled the desireeef restriction, limiting the Prince in his official' capacity (supposing he should consent to comply with the wishes of the nation),- and holding him forth to that nois) as a tnan to be suspetted—not fit to be trusted. War this the sort of conduct which the House ought to adopt ? Was it just to deprive the Prince of the grace of abstaining from the exercise of those powers which, as the Pdonarth, he would be ee,i- - tled to ) Recollecting, too, that those po s ers would be open for discussion at any future period, was it just that the individual, whom' the country wished to be called to the Government, should be held forth as unfit to be entrusted ?-e-- There was no inconvenience of such magnitude es for the Chief Magistrate to be incapable of ex ercising -that authority which ought to- be tested in him, It had been said by the Noble Baron that the Government was placed under great ditli • culties. He (Lord M.) would riot admit it to be so, there was a time when they might have existed, but . the moment the - exigency was pioniunced then the difficeity ceased, for the moment the Report of the Physicians was laid before the House, that moment it ceased. It had - been said on a former occasion by a Noble and Learned Lord, " that the King never -dies." In a valid and imp ortant sense that was irne e because the Metiarchical syssem way of such a vieil nature, that it must not pause for a moment. On that principle - he ,mest_ vote for the-Address, 'becatise it secured 'an able,,adjuJication of the case' by,Parlia-, meta, it saves all that uonecessary&stress to the in dividual a hicth the other•tnede would provide, and most essentially avoids giving to any 'persons (if such , there were) the opportunity-of canvassing the prac ticability of going 'on without the iyrOnarchical power. What would be the language Of the Jaco bins on the subjeat ? Why they, grounding them selves upon the speech of the Noble Secretary . of State, would say, " We have his words for our be lietehat the Royal - Authority i 4 of no use; the Mi nister has gone on for six . weeks without a King." What ground was there for net supposing that:those very persons use it as an argument to further their views, and say, ‘f We are disinterested judges; why May not we carry 'on' the Government for six or eight years in the same way ?" If the House lent • themsefves.to Such Ministers, they would be the first to suffer in the approaching disgrace' of the 'Country, but they. would 'riot seffer without en tailing •on themselve s th e execrations of the rest of -Europe. The Earl of BUCKINGLIAMSTIIRE gave his cordial support to the Resolutions of the Noble Earl, con vinced that the best and most constitutional mode (or supplying the deficiency was by Bill. The dis cussions of 1788 on the subject, were, in his opinion, a sale guide tUr any man to discharge his duty now, because no subject had been more properly decided. Beiides this, he had another great authority, viz. that of Mr. Pitt, who had carried a considerable majotity-with him. The Noble Earl professed the greatest respect for the Prince of Wales, hut he thought that the King's interests should be placed out of the reach or possibility of being affected. Tf_e measure of 1788 was approved of by the King, and he should presume that they were su now. • The Duke of NORFOLK here rose to order, de daring that it Was indecorous to use the name of his Majesty in the manner that the I‘ able Earl had usvd it. The Earl of BUtKINGLIAMSHILIE proceeded, and contended that be wai justified in using the King's name because it was record e d or, the Journals o f the Fiume, artd he had a right to refer to thoeJour. pals. Under the situation in which 'Ministers .were placed, they could not act othet wise. Sunosing that it would ha% e been necessary to send feintorcements to'PortUgal, Would aoy Minister have hes;tated to send titem ? If the Noble Lotd (Grent'ile) lied been •in power, would not he have 'acted so ? ott thought be would; at all Innards, ILIVC CsOCtiyA It his duty to - send the necessary" reinforcements, at least he '(the Noble Lord) would hare st , ntthetn. The Noble Earl 'contended, that Ministers having aced from the eitigeticy of the 'public s', , rvice, were .intitled, not only to inrtetnnity, but applanie. He was 'unconnected with them, and in supporting them did niereiy an act of dUty to them and hi 4 country. • , . , The Marquis of La e:esowNE hoped he 'should never bear that the lute eets ul thy= reigeing e . ,.t i and" the interests of the Crown, Were capable of being separated. Did tee Noble Earl think that it was inimateri II to the line; esin of the King by • whom his armies were sent alma ad or recieted, by whom his treaties were itifrih e ed or iseoke e ? Th e Noble Earl slated, that ii woul.l 5e crirni. al .n ths in dividuals who for two months hid usurped the iklo naitary of the cduetry, thou d any eeergency a' is, , to neg,ecr, at I heir own respoosibiliey, to use !hepowt r of the Crown ?_.l3id the Noble is id forget diet Those very peg seas had distinctly stated, that the power of using the roeel authority had dtrolved ou th States of the Realm ? Yer it seemed that theie very pereeis.e. had deceived the States of the Realm, and had w drawn from them the immediate exereceeot tea au thority, by coue-eatieg eiteuinstanc, s with an e, itient intender) of protracting the existence Of their eevii and the suspension of Menai - chief pewee Tie_lrelvas • another very portant q estion which aroie oil of - ahat before their Lordshies, and 111 A was with re spect to the - cust..dy of his Majesty's p,rsen. Coeld any one say, that daring, the continuance of the.de., lays that occurred, there had beea . a . legal and cons stitutional proviSion for the care 6( the personage in. , whom all Were so deeply interested The day , trusted would dome when a- retrospect, might be deliberately taken of all the late transactions, ,and a inquiry made into the truth of: a report prevalcet e a few days ago, that. those who . had assumed the. care of his Majesty had, by-a wanton exere, Ee o f , their authority; endangered the lif e o f t h e \ R oya l_ Personage hims e lf. He mentiohea this'aS a rumour which he should be glad to hear Contradicted. With respect to the prOceeding about to be instituted, irregular as it must' necessarily be, their Lordships ought to be gaided by two considerations ; first, that in that irregularity the ‘. leak possible v:o.; fence should be opposed to the analegies of the Cop tit utiun ; and, secondly, that it ,shonld directed so as to prove efficient in the supply of the existing inefficiency. • As to the first p6int, namely, the ,analogy, he would not e4B - the precedents so ably adduced by his Noble Friend, but would content himself with referring all Which their Lordships had heard turd read fur truth of his assereien, that there was no, case before the year 1788, in which the two Houses of Parliament had usurped the use of the Great Seal, without the intervention of the third - party, who was alone entitled to the controul of ii. In the, reigns of .Edward 11. of Richard 11. 'of Henry V. and of Henry Vl.—times of the greatest disorder and confusion—in the midst of all the attacks made on the UreWn at those pertoci,, there remained so strong on idea that the two Houses of Pat liaenetit had no controul over th'e Gear Seal, as to skew that it was immernorieliy , siablislied hat the Great Seal was the attribute 4;1 R. yalty, and that the authorhy over it was peculiar to the Crown, and CQUtd not be assumed , by either House of Pailatruent. Let their lordships consider di part of the Practice of the Crown 'itself. fee Crown, during the recess of Parliament,' and someianes in the case of any urgent necessity over. • stepped the limits of its power. But' did it e..,r et s tempt to give to such an aet the authority of an of Parliament ? On the contrary, when Parlianwut assembled, the Crown applied for the justification of such an act, which justification was alway on the necessity for it. The Noble Secretary ofSiate • had conten.led, that the object of the Bili ‘ellidle, it was intended to propesewis, to make that completeby the Great Seal which at present could not be made so. - This was impossible. It reminded him of an expedicnt hit upon at a Westminster eledion, by a body of men certainly not so enlightened as his Majesty's Mintsters, he meant the Irish chairmen. !These. people, finding themselves sometimes unpleasantly., situated with regard to the police officers, , applied to one of the Committee at the eection, ter know if there' would be any objection to their getting their poles . ' painted like the constables' staves, conceiving that they would then, in any . any quarrel, " have law on their-side." Thus the Noble Lord appeared to think, that by the covering which he proposed to the measure in agitation, -he - should " have the law on his side." What Would the Com Mission purport to do ? By the authority , of the two Houses of Parliament to open the.Parlia aunt; and to stand in the,place ofthe Crown.. Admit such a prinCiple; and ,it might be applied in future to every illegal at which a more encroachiegParliament than the present might wish to perform. ,What was the course recommended to be pursued ? In the first place, to adopt a resolution, declaratory of the ineols eiency . of his Majesty at present, to exercise the Royal functions. In the second place, to adopt. a resolu tion, that it was the right and duty of the two Houses of Parliament to. provide for the deficiency thus Occasioned. What followed ? To abandoo thetight, and to forego the duty ! To abandon the right, by surrendering it to others ; to forego the duty,' by leaving the Country without a Governor: All this, too, at a time when the , eveuts of a fort night, or of a week, might demand' to meet them, the united Powers of the Constitution. With a full celivictiun of the propriety of his Noble Friend'; amendment; be should certainly vote fur it ; Calce, lated as it was to make the Constitution whole, and to 'enlace it on the basis on winch alone it could -stand with Security. Lord GR EN VI td:E confessed his surprise that those who were compelent to givie legal opinions on the present important question had thought proper so long to delay addressing their Lordships; He did not pretend to supply the deficiency. On the con trary, he telt considerable diffidence in speaking on the present occasion, ,because he was Obliged to de‘ blare his hearty and complete conviction of the soundness of the arguments by ,which the original motion was supported; If, however; he had to add to the expression of this OonVistion the duty of de•: at ye ill t , .; le•