The Sun. — London, England, 1836-03-01 00:00:00

I , . . . ' • . . % . . HOUSE OF COMMON -- S. -11."' . • • THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY, MARCH 1, 1836, ON RAILWAY ntedto B ing lL uir L e S n, C o O th N e l b A e l s l t T m T 3d E e E s . by Bd i n iiis ge hyoßarffiegiecerottf:t h e tyimposed u p o n t h e m they have atvhee formedH ou se, y i n o t u o r ... 7-------- -- - -••---- Some specific at;t -'- I"F" .--'—'"----= ' -=--.-"----------------------- - --- ' --- ''°or egone conclusion,' it would ap- h as reparelt em referred, and have agreed to the fol- PbPeo.afforded to the House' on the different uant to the Order of the House, exa , .....- e tools in which th -7------- e chief professors of the science of agita- ab e out of the consolidated fund, but a few watchmen, to be It was on the occasion of the debate on the repeat question. through the country.-(Loud cheers.) • Are not our clergy '" t e pc l ir e bi c ep t i i li o di n. lv t : 3l . wnt ". be made the chosen i ns t ruments f or w i e ldi ng t h e pa id out o f t h e f un d s o f t h e c orporat i on .-(Hear.) The Right His Right Hon. Friend's words were as follow-[The designated as surpliced ruffians? are not their followers re-. c,P,aehs.a..eir.ct,hhhielal.ed meant b p een t c o om re e lyo t ,o , aln b nnuoo t rusdnee h ereattthht h aeattglwricoaus(nAdtishr.eof c saoccrmegumesaa i nttttieolenveuiiionpdugoeli '1: hmw REPORTh. 1 nice di 1 e ti c nh t fe o C inr o ma m , at m tt ei or i t nt t o e ~ e . at nhp a tal proposed to civil force in the dispensation o f p u bli c justice. (Th e Ri g h t Hon. Gentleman then rea d a f ew wo rds from . A.e . t 9th Noble Lord read the passage to the following effect] :- presented as banded assassins? and are not the rePresenta- might h c t ol d le ttsr e pe t eec . et pi hfir H ieesas e etine h tn o inv4 d ast , nra t y l in cross-examination eaerxegjt eornareoe , rtr ado lithattnha.er my .his one, 1. neeboGun but the nt hearenadall DleLaigearnvd without tu.s any delay to ascertain from the Pri lHasotned f n or ar s o e n ve e r t al nersconstitutional liberty lam ready to worship,l . of the Irish people held up as guilty men, basely. fore- Co ß n a m il i w tt a ee B pi :1 n s ee h d a e v d e :lumber of Railway Bills for which Petitions concluded m inu t minutes, amidst loud cheering, which Geo. IV., enacting that it should be lawful for Commissio • "Sir, ._ but lives. were known. He (11 . Ir. Sergeant Wilde) thoughtthat there o alt u i g o l n it s in!ended to produce, that those w duly appointed to select a certein number of watchmen, and rej ec t th e idol of democratic liberty•-( Hear, hear, hear.) sworn upon the word of the living' God?-(Loud che might be prepared to meet it. S i rch w a e p rs h 'r eit he he CHA NCELLOR of • the EXCHEQUER sa id ra i se t h e necessary f un d s f or pa y m ent of their wages, and the I don't Wish to speak disparagingly of my own country, but' And when such language as this is applied to us, to our coup f compared the statement that had been just made with kee in of watchhouses &e.-( Hear.) Here was no armed from what you see of the violence of Irish Parties, will you try, and to our religion, can it be wondered at that there is a pe t a et t ah e r m ee ado e t n ibio t oi,ne o ch.ct f io . smn w ioc h iefee a sitys t i kei eei C tec o i,havt u ola n i f. n s bgt e , oee : acts- when he compared the Bill t h at w e there'watchmen to be paid out of surrender the people of the country to the tender mercies-I f ee ling of inevitable resentalent Produced in the •nation. s as proposes, with elite-nor were thea v e t o state Committeein nhc the ass is tl ev a l tl o ct i w . t helneasure that had been described ---and above all, when he the consolidated fund, and he thought the new corporations, must use the word-of a domestic le^islature ?-( Cheers from heart ? And what estimate ought to be formed of those who . iansactions-the subject of the inquiry -than an to compared the consequences of the Bill, and took tilson himself might fairly he trusted to establish a similar watch.- (A n th e Opposition.) Would you surreider, the people of that first raise ,, this l religious excitement, etsle miserable • " No , have been presented, as well as the mx i i s nt t ;a i f e ca i p. which is subjoined the , look at the results which must foll o w f rom t t re j ect i on of o l onh.e m Eex mber on t h e Opposition side referred the Chancellor country to the tender mercies of conflicting factions ? Don't popery how , and th, en avail theruselyes or it, for the Pur- th e purpose of justice. te e Bill-(Cheers)-it was then indeed, 1 e felt ie how f e u sic i r per- he t 1 er to the 80th. clause of the new Bill.) W e ll, you know that the inevitable consequence of such a conflict poses of party ; and, in order to deprive us of the benefit of Sir F. Por.Locic begged sonally unequal, justified in answering, and he ''and wou ld c r e le a r t h e wo rds of the new 13111 :--" Be it enacted and collision of opinion will be to produce a sanguinary civil British institutions, appeal to etl,lc blow and a t n h i.c r have hose m bt( e lu a t b y o a u s t nominee thet to conduct the investig prosecution of be embarked in the different sehemes a , '• c o ° ' ll Pletely, the Right lion. Gentleman. hoped Hear. ) y He that the watch committee of every such borough s h a ll on th e w ar e_( Cheers repeated from the same quarter.) Does the themselves excited.. on which tn tof I fa factious 1 a tabular statement, to „ fnse of Ct e s r m m rro i n migh t tak ° tbe liberty of saying (without mean i ng an di s _ H uh d ay o f J anu ary, the 10th day of April, the 10th day o f Hon. and Learned Gent. (Mr. O'Connell) think, because fla me by the incendiary . d a ? • nis an t e he l o i l:g, ts w fataleeman f titled t the Committee. He had been deputed by tlii , number of assents dissents, and neuters, as they appear in the records of the am . ; r espect to the Right Hon. Gentleman) the' there ' ran July, and the 10th day of October in every year, transmit to there is a certain preponderance of physical force in those dis- aliment is unremittingly applied 4 ~,,t _ - thO inquiry, and he should office ; together with the stage of proceeding in which eachsßill Sir, .I w l. d ' ee r s e ei n g h the whole of Iris brill' t 1 •'' f i • h 1 4 rd-Lieutenant of Ireland a report of the number of men tricts, that you will compel the sturdy spirits of the North to British institutions, and have them we wi an must, •tr eet _should attend to that duty. He had no means, Stands, up to the of. Saturday, 27th instant. !an speec i one strain o sopaistry t e o _ t neither would h A ssear)- dthrough'•borough,submit etruggle? That struggle would immediately i s th e plan of the Conservatives? to transfer the nomination d o act as constables or policemen in such without a.. e e Ulm any, of statin g specifically what the charges PETITIONS FOR RAILWAYS--SESSION 1836. w an , Inch he would have occasion to appointe.were-he o -, es not 1 • pursu e h•he arties into which the people of that o f s h e riff's, of magistrates, of police, the management of is a 1 ulihe prosecutor, nor 1- 1 1 h im briefly. He would refer to one single and of the description of arm., accoutrements, and clothing- commence between t p . ... neye4'. woo suggested to him that - Note( e become one. . In Proof of thi s , The Right instance fo *te ) dother necessariesf • country di v ided, on the passing of such a measure as the re= property, the administration of local justice to the Crenit• th ero _ o f nr . w h at, he might ask , viz such was his duty. He was t:7 th e gist Hon. Gentleman had, with ( Hear, hear, from the Opposition)-and ion -an fur- are to examine such wit great est power, com men t e d uon thi that greater nished to each man," an d so on. Now, as to th e intention of peal of the Union-where it would close who could tell? What 'lhis, in England, they did got dare to Kepi° i this, appeared to give their testimony, wile es es es e Read 1 What had the Committee Title. Capital. o 3 , 'i," First power had been given to the town . 1) tow n-c ouncils in Ireland than • this clause, nothing was more certain than that at the present , was begun in folly would end in crime ; an d t he ultimate con- in Ireland. please God and the people, they shall never Why, their duty was, aecordi id to do? ,counc in ng to the instructions 1 7 7i 2 r• England, And A did • " .13 a ,„„ ,_, y 1 the Right Hon. Gentleman say so ? moment there existed local - carry. No ;we muot heve municip3l, as we have House, "to ingqire and rsport upon the evidence an • own bY she , with their ob- . . 1 , . 111:e„, ec-- " , sa , o the Right Hon. the present owering the local authorities to organiz e (Loud and long continued cheers from the Opposition.) Now, s e cured Parliamentary reform. By the same p p il e y b u th t? , l , (4ticuis theronpae," This was the duty of the Committee, and , -- e cum . I Gentleman, the new town- f theßight Hon. Gent draw_ u sir' , must be governed • and if cor porat ions in his dot was to sweet it, by examinine - -ens, unconn ec t e d w i t h tie d, , id d • th - besides the regular police force, and that here was the paragraph to which the ~ c o 1 leg e ~ , . Carlow the parti es w h o came be _ r commerce, would have an pay wa c leen Aylesbury of the England ha submitted to control, in the fore its teqessing the late erectio o Power of •interfering with voluntary associations, such as at the present moment, in the city of Limerick, both those ing himself the distinction between the circumstances . wi btip popular - 1- ,1 e came to kno tl t • • n, If he were asked Birminoliam, Bristol, a?..1 chambers of 0 b asked would _ c mmerce ; and the Right Hon. Gentlemandescriptorsp against Mr. 0 Conne I, hq leozged to re I But he Right Hon. Gentlemen corn ilained also the circumstances of the people of Ireland anthe state of land be submitted. Da yeet thiels thet W 0 will, or thet we ply-in the same B:rri - Ongliam and Derby . 530,000. 916 143 15e. -1 6 • 5 i w hy they sanceion any such power in a town-council ? vemence. t etas , no such power was given in the Bill.-( Cheers.) There of the power which was to c invested in the or Lieutenant parties in t at county y, . b • •L d i le . •• h tr told the House that in consequence of ought to acquiesce in any measure short of complete equality his Right Hon Friend 1 A ? Hon 't ' kno that if ' with eingsol, . you w yen treat Les as 'a pro- manner .as the Mereheta of - the Cernmittoo derived te s i I - firming •am and Gloucester 945 000 IA7- 9 35 lse informateetio e vie,„ Through a statement made by an Hon Ale " ' liol.on an i Leigh ' . *. - - ''' 12 3,400 It , e 0 t not a single word which would enable town-councils ap- of generally superintending or governing these constabulary the violence of conflicting parties y -na t . ' I Ind be . ' • •ie the elettse et' Commons, and shienigh what was conve;ed • mil' "carding Pointed under the Bill to act in the way_ that had been sug- bodies. The Right Hon. Gentleman complained that this showed successfully that the people o re a mg divided vince and a colony, eqd net es part and eeppel qt ycleeselyes_, petitions. He (Sir. k:', Niece ) had already said, and he- i l l the 97.000' 6 0 C ; Zeated.......e coßristol orid E••et i ,iiecrs.) Th e - into two classes, one of which was a most important if you refuse us what we call .P4Stiee, and what your hearts peat i t , t h aA l w , c lia hat attend t h ere as a public accuser. wo 'r ' i d i: .e- Chelmsford' &Gi e •e f a North r r for the purpose of Right • Hon. m . h d en i e d s o. It was the ter Y same principle body, though in a physical minority to a large amount, must te ll yoq that as justice we rightly deeigeate, e perilotie a cloy •te,periorm, the - nature of which he ha 1•' . 4 0 had t e n 200,000; 47 7 7 0 th e argument, which was a recommendation of c equer enie i o e of a domestic le is : pearsteet out, but Cheltenham & Great Western 760,0001 808 47 5 9 12 s c ommissioners, and which was not adopted in the Bill- which the Right Hon. Gent. had adopted when framing the the consequence of. the establishment g - question will be eptrlee4 ; aritt its 415c4plcm tyig teeyitably be beyond th a t h e wou ld not proceed. Nene She etsject of the House Deptford 60,000. 590 54. 120, (Continue e h • e d h • • • h . , Bill for the En fish Police and which he thought proper lature in such a state of things would be to tear out the resuscitated. But if Fn Rut' the greet intergational corn- was to get at certain teeterl I A Batton Iv , . eering e -an ten mixing up tat recommen- g , , , of , selleils4 010 Y Wade for or against any- Dublin and Drogheda o . un hich was not in the Bill. but used as an argument to place under the direction the responsthle Government of vitals ' of the country, and t o p ro duce a civil war.--(Loud p ac t i n t o rea l, subiterdiels pritetielil effePt iif icifii ebolish all proposidenr Rll4 in fl te proiceilte the inquiry, he (Sir F. Pol- Dentin and Kilkenny I It . h , e and the Bin, t h e Ri o e H e If Right Hon. Friend the Attorneys_ cheers from the OPPosition• ) He asked his . night Hon. distinctions, natural and religious •; if You glee ne the !Seise Ale A o ett e .eipoomioated . te assist the Committ ee , i t b e n t , i k w., Dundee and Arbroath e ht Hon. Gentleman appealed to them, the country-(Hear.) ear., isicl 99,800 637 5' . . 1 1 91 -1 1, 1 " ba de them remember b hechamber o f - of Man- General for Ireland had exhausted the subject the •Friend, then, to carry his extended view into a little mere lei,. hi v e, the same rights, the. same privileges, the sa me i nst i tuo Dundee and r • nuated tat something injurious to the honour' ae s t dignity CO Ne i vtyi e t commerce . .. as to cryino t) 0 eeester, and asked 1 f h t b el . • d h • id h r . note details ; and called•upon hi m t o say whether, if this be tients; W eon is:lace us on a noble level, and establish a *lo- . of Parliament had trans iced - Durham. Junction sp ed at the Carlow elegem. He hats Durham ' with them, would they tolerate an interference eel so t e present corpora ° o les ,an e Lou not e wet,s' or ~ , no, means if he had the inclination, South West } 50,000 i ,-I 0 ..s -namely, that there is one party, in a nu- rio s aril hettwee • ou fill our hearts with the lo- •veltieh ho discleiened of e such an association ? and this too was done for the per- that after the statements which his Right Hon. Friend had the state of things , . but I ' u P Y 4r. if V. ... g making an charge ihe had q or %tot' ' hcluebergh,Le.tle &Newhaven - I Ilf 38 44 ,pose of raising an imp ress i on amongs t th ose w h o h a d no . a t_ made, there could be any on e w ho wou ld doubt th a t the pre- rnerical point of view, infinitelY suPerior, °wer in th e scale rious consciousness o Bled! eiptiemillio, stri4 %lip Il e fe e l what 3. ~,,,i ni. _, _ , s _ ~ .r1 _Figo4, , , ti . T , ony f ac t s b e y on d 99, r 00 1 '205 33 96 Festiniog • ~,,,,, just.detailst he Hear, .6,000 21 12 0 - "en to the of • •) '' This t • detectiveand • d alteration. The Right of society (I speak, of course, with regard to the hulk Of the that we ire even as you are-then yet! will. egt eely halo re- en'in'tret4ree 1a 1h _ 4ll 'l what no" tad to suggest now was, bridg . l 'n .1 1 2 Bill.-( and cheers. sent sys em eras, require Gartsherrie and Coat eHon.Gentleman d 1 • Right Hon. population), and that there - was another party infinitelY infeliOr coed the argument for repeal, but yin} will hove grprihito e d 'AV ; g rf rils' i n;," i r pt , 3l a s lu,n °'. Such evidences as was available, ,„ ' a specimen of the conduct of the Right Hon. Gentle- seemed to concur that his eie in Gateshead 1 Durham - e '' • (or "MI with t• numbers, but possessing a greater portion of the wealth and St e preseftee; Fee will eat 1 1 aye remo - qd thq teotlye but Learned Friend aid he never *imposed that his Hon. and Great am ith respect to this Bill.-( Hear. )He would take ano• Friend's arguments were true as related to certain borouges _ , . . •,9tl Yd • .I, At ~ i, el ~ , . was to act tie a puttlic prosecutor, neither that he North of England).. 600,000 l 475 52 56 they • t ''' h H Friend• whether, • At A i '• ' eetample and one more important. The Right Hon. which he alleged were created b James I. for certain political intelligence-he asked his leig t on. in oraweatee the eestre ; anst that yen may act this wise part is had made up his Ga'esnead e reieel else way or the other with re ant to the ease. Rclilonkwearmouth 186,3001 9 44 81 -9 it Genii plc, I'A • i tool -I. i 1.• v. id e 1 •I i hadceased to an d ther e fore he every town in Ireland, containing such classes of i nhabitants, the prayer of ene who bade at heart the interest and peace of The epee iesseeli h ar t arisen out , of a • • . f ro - tas, main.y mile.. upon tee resuds wide. wou, ow purposes, w iic purposes waist,g Glasgoo, and Airdrie - petitien which had been pre- 1 3O 48 d En the Bill with t t the ointment f oration she admitted the boroughs should cease to exist also- Now, this he would year after year, and during several period r i es - wi yes o e appo corp- sof the • is Ins country, and the glory qf t rt q.t gre.it prnnirc o f tylji9ll if e ented yea certain lettere which had been published, and Glasgow and Falkirk Juelotion -138,000 151 15 73 •r brou Ist into co/lision forms so and of which I tr'fl-t t t , ; uPee this it was argued that such powers were to be applied was not a correct statement of the case ; for if the Right Hon. same year, Consent eo have these parties g , , essential, e hat, i re l q n g , i t 0 . vi e , selec.h appeared tO Iteoes twee Great Northern from Mr. Raphael. The impression G w -. O ° ' 2O lOW 'S, whenthe fact there only •ht towns in Gentleman would turn to the 25th Charles II ,he would find was . were eight _ . _ with respect to every question which concerned their stonse,sttc preve a prosperous part.-( Loud cheers.)made by tb 1 ' ;' .11Ats lettere Ives so strong, that a petition had t „, wore sent Greif estero (No. 1) , 4B 58 87 19 Ilrbich these ' f f 11 . t and closest interests ?-(Loud cheers.) He was not there. Criteria gQINI9LLY coincided fully in the st te mll lel the Seenee 4 Vommons, prayin that an inquiry m4he he insti- (No. 2) . ; 0 0 0 it officers were to be appointed. There were only there rules made or the government o a the corporate emcee i.. :_, 4 . •. • ~.5 _I ,1,11 - le WO founded Hoyle tight t , • o. , Sheriffs,and 1 is Ireland,6mentionedarticular,about to enter at any great length into a discussion of the prig suggestions offered ivy the Right Hon. •etaret i es aria the N o bl e is - ' • - tided upon suggestions alto something which Air, O'Con own. e s . w hich there were esorporation 11l ',hid' ' l was supposed to have done, contrary no 'bio honeur and di.gnity Hull and Selby tociplea on which this measure was (banded ; there it ould, no Lord below him. The Hon and Learned Member for TiT . t were to be continued under the Present Bill.-( Hear.) included in general terms, and there was no mention of . any of . for . ~,,, , • , , ippe- of Parliament ; what that " sieeseetlsi "' wax, it is highly des'iro Leh and Derby (or North 455,000 816 158 L 59 . 12 appointedut upon th e f act t h e sue „ st i on was ra i se d th a t Sh er iffs w er e them in reference to any political purpose, but solely in refe- doubt , be another opportunity doing so, Where was . no e nary was the bitterest foe to that kindliness of feeling which to know. I t W 4, ow_ that 040 eau . l l tt .' have us Midland) • • "B h • wen t t o s h ow th a t th e rence to their municipal affairs.-(Hear.) Before he sat down oPleelsition, ag far as he was aware, to the second efiening et should subsist between the Catholics and p ro t estants ; an d .11 H _ ~ _ s see . . rai ce would to report te 1,500,000 1399 395 .249 17 e. iti •in all the towns. But e now . . this s ls Anse Vie.% ofseeevaeione upon the facts brought before ;Alen) London & Blackyrall 600,000: 1143 1521 15.' -• )f, tieght H on. Gentleman ha d not d ea l t can d i dly wi th qu es _ he must again call the attention of the House to what he con- th!s Bill. -- ( Hear , hear, and a laugh from the Ministerial side.) howow , V ;ig gEtted in _Oat qol!Se of his d,eeiep fee kaiticitien w kb. eyere resteeared to convey m i scon d uc t or &m 0 0 , , and as o- " u • --- ( H 1 d 0 ear, mar, an cheers.) When that Right Hon. ceived would be the consequence of their adopting the re,- His Right Hon. Friend seemed to consider that th ose w h o sat amongs t ail elieiea, 'mere Wei 1.111 OtteePr tiingtill c 11 4 1.1 his of Aire "O'Connell's conduct or h onour was impugned, in th i e trans- London & Bri ~ .3 -18 422 gliton ...... ..... 1,000,000 890 1331 'll entlemhis (Lord Stanley's) side of ilia who supported the h d-• • t ation of justice, he would sa y commendation of the Right Hon. Gentleman. By so doing at il l that, , an spoke of te a n.tnis r OrtNioui to ascertain Le 1,200,000 1030 3201 9 '' in th e • for the reservation of its pure administra- they would be publishing a declaration that the people of second reading of the . Bill were incertsistea je taking the people. The course pursued by the Hon. Vol Learned Gen -Longo & Cambridee what . that " something" affecting l'ae was. His Learned , o 1 900 I , o • - in t i o ,„ , , anxiety p Ma it was signified they would take-.,a eeeroe in I n London & Croydon e, .., te tart was one of scandalous deception.-( Cries of " Order.) . ~ Friend said that he was eeli, in possession of the means of e- 1 .," he was disposed to go as • far as that Right Hon. Gentle- Ireland were unworthy of trust, unworthy of self-govern- course he . 11 - and distinctly li . wine le unequivosse r . e a expressed . . ts concuv- • 1 --atillg sPeenlekllY Ai. oharges •it would therefore b• f .7. I 2- o qt 14 London & Dover (S. Eastern) 1 400 000 ) The align4.4 - .11 eeggeste4 to the Hon ; Mereher the neces e s,e • m - t eee • .. ci, left4n• If there were provisions in the Bill.that were defective, merit, and that not in general terms, which would be less h em disc those lt was his wish that the ad- offensive and less dangerous, but on account of the religious renee, inasmuch as they grg adopted the Principle of the sity o f mo d erat i ng ei s l anguage , • • s eem I t e now todetermine whether they would go into the in- London & Gravesend e- sett . discuss provisions. h ( H hear.) present Bill, and next that their preempt course was at sari-quiry at all, since the charges were not ee s et i , and since it might ' ' London & Norwich Eastern lB a entration of justice should be pure. He said that the man- differences which existed between t em.- ear,Colonel CONOLLY begged pardon of the House ;bet the appear only an idle statement, rearsette •en th d f Counties) ( - emo e o conducting l . 500 000 1 - 85 , a er of d ea li • h • bR• h t H It d th en that this Bill would not have met with one mice with the view which they took °n the " 441 4119t4 t° the passions of the people were worked on in such a manner by the r h e c, r i o , e i set i on _ e fth , csi , ng with this question y the ig on. Gentle - appease „ es s ,- o„ , ,_,that TeOndon Grand Juntien .• ' ' ' 49° c•)9' .1 - - Nan e , if it had Address. lie linnibly took the liberty of saying that. theep e inentee . niu proceed, he nopee 6OO 000 1580 .9 99 0 ,-' shot too much of Parliamentary dexterity-for he dwelt word of opposition from the Right Hon. Gentleman, nifiAt Hon. Gentleman and his friends, and their feelings ex- the accusation miens he '• •London, Sho h le ''''):i- -. ' 16- --° tar t in theirproceedings.- Hear, 9 (~ • • .1, iI , known, as the inferences which might be re ara,t , t I:ig .tott 804,600 890 133 118 o ' il lY npo n certa i n p o i n t s o f th e Bin, an d exc l u d e d o th ers which not happened that the majority of the PeoPle of Ireland were was n° inconsistency Fba-ever . .c ,_ ,a P sated 14 alit ‘n went as they could not conceive. With &Awn troie. the evidence mi g ht var y, an d c oonv i x4 i, ht think the Manchester am, Cheshire, etr • , er e a . , • 1211 tie -- 17 for , r, Lswers to nim, and the arguments uoon which he relied. Catholics.-(Cheering.) He was glad the Right Hon. Gen- h ear , f rom t h e o pposit i on , W e d i d o b je ct, and shou d OD- regard to the corporation of Naas, he was authorized by Lord applied to one particular circumstance, and so: 'shape their questions Y Manehestee and Leeds 1,300,000 2526 4523 ' - ' is, The t o • - b. t i did not o pp ose the second reading of this Bill. But jeer again, to be tied down to the a4pli9P of the principle of Mayo to say that there was no such conveyance by the corpo• to the witnesses, whereas the Os e esnett ee m i g h t have hi s Rig ne of the Right Hon. Gentleman had been taken up e eman difitnt_ Merttyr Tydfil and Cardiff e $ ht H on , F r i en d ; as f ar as h e c ould collect from the he never heard of a course more at variance with what he had a Bill which was net distinctly explained iiiiY farther than ration of th e t own o f w hi c h h e was p a t ro n, a s had been s t a t e d, ferenees, and thus the eeesseeikainination would be nseless ;he 'oidland Counties )ce1,200,000. 1962, 408 330 ' 12 r`9Posit* el. th e , 'ens 01 the Right on. ent eman, i amoun e o . 3 e,ifie ehee PI yes eetiu Mr 0' n ---- that there should be to tal and entire abolition of Cor- adopted by the Right Hon. Gentleman.-( Hear, hear.) The should be followed up to the fullest extent. What were the corporation lests 4040 Y trebled ill amount, instead Of any part s l l 7 ll c - g P. .g' • Connell elsmild be stated. Newcastle and North Shields 120,000 333 20 42 he enrati e •d cheers f rom Right Hon. Gentleman ought to have moved that the Bill be Principles of this Bill ? There were two principles in the of it being a ppli e d t o hi s b ene fi t , le tfAIRMAN inquired whether tho Learned S Northfleet and Dover . ...... as, the „ e n rights. Hear from the Opposition, an , Legeant wished the Committee Cedecide leve l The point-vrheoPolloc and Govan' be fo r cal 11?inisterial Members.) Anxious as he had been for a re- read a second time six instead of , moving as Bill (though they were so embodied hi the pleasure that it Lord JOHN RUSSELL-I am so f Isatisfiedwith per ect y upon Counsel to propeen with the case • "' r they should all ie ey c 88 18 38 f hich th e tal in th e c •of England, S co tl an d. a nd Ireland, he he had done for leave to bring in in its place another Bill- was difficult to eearate one from the other); one 4. IT speeches addr e ss e d t o th e H ouse b y my Right Hon. in their own way, or re- Preston and Longridge 3O.N° 698 21 170 iti- Bil ott i., ~ orporations ei- 4 l ike li e n s. , , f , to know how !se and his friends should .. have met the (Hear, hear)-to abolish all the _Municipal Corporations • • 1 of was the abolition o!' the eeieting corrupt system, and the other Friends, and they have so full ' •that I el $ s • e y conveyed my opinions, repent \VILDE sienined that he c ' did South Durham 40,000 728 33 ,64 'l2 )o- ti ' I I 1 H h ) dff Royal Com the had come to it, with a proposition for the ex- re and-( ear, ear -an or the creating o a was the adoption of PoPular eleetion in all the towns. To do not consider it necessary to state m f t . r, e lfdfe . . ertamly seek to hare 150,000 233 13 16 y reasons or amen mg smile speci c groan 0, accusation laid, ,in order that ho might di- Stockport and Manchester . 1 ~action of Y • h 9 (C t . d cheering.) m i ss i on , i n w h o se hands all the funds of those Corporations the first of these he acceded willingly and cheerfully- The to this plan of Reform. I shall on ly j us t o b serve , th a t if th e sect his mind to it, ... 230,000 252 28 21 19 on mue :he ) tt all Corporate in ts •— Stonebridge Junctiog , h ence h e h , h .tad carce l y agree w i t h e s h ou ld b e ves t e d, to the total neglect of any hereditary partici- other would hat produce, he thought , the beneficial effects amendment of the Right Hon. Baronet be carried, it will be *lir R. FIIRCUSSOIC thought tt a t §i r F. Pollock would have n „ 100,000 118 15 31 16 course from that which his Right Hon. Friend had selected ce ll, iti orfor Hon. and Learned Gentleman had York s.nd North • is- I 4 ight H a otud say that e ca. 5 d from it and he wasprepared to adopt a different ' If he thoroughly under- anon or claimant-(Hear, hear)-and adopting a totally anticipate , . . against so the argument of the Right Hon. Gentleman, it was as new principle of tolls, and so on.-( Cheers. ) The Right with . . . . , der to ho h ear d at t h e b ar o f t h e H ouse . . spoken of facts. ad he - Midland Thames Haven , o 450,000 30 60 86 Incumbent on us to engage the services of Sir Charles Wetho- difficulty in stating, whether or not he had certain facts to re, Ulster iv'' Sto o d mt. Gentleman( Hear.)495,000 746 226 194 ...,5; ap 1i370,000 450 99 37 reference to that question. But betide Right lion. Friend gross an invasion any objection to state whether or not he was ' i i cebl English Irish el ration Reform Hon. Gentleman was so liberal to Ireland, that he was , thi s Bill. e , e to the as the orpo in leave a single grievance unredressed or a vice unremedied of Ric , facts which he meant to brie forward? r ___ _... 5 . • g en s h - words that had been '4 , t h e ~ , e ter edverted upon of ready on the present occasion to give up the whole ques- „ht Hon. Baronet contemplates.-(Much laughter.) So Sir F, Pali said 25,224.0003697F416575 7475 01-LOCK he had I varlet of facts to ro ins th en s chool of peaceful agitation " proved this-and h e rea lly lion of corporate property.-( Hear, hear.) He only hoped . . astounding proposition of the Right Hon. Gen- doubt, but those y P dote no From this statement it appe ars th a t t h ere h ave been - P lc 1 h• gut that upon such • a subject the great power; of the that in embracing such bold opinions, the Right Hon. Gen- . , those the existing system created-if there was even the far does the smallest ground of justi6ehle corn taint on the part of any tlerien ex p _ s • coed anything ever proposed by us in the way of s the House fifty-seven Petitions for Railways i 1• P • 'gilt Hcaution.-( Hear, hear human belng affected by the proposed measure, their he Reform.__ Laughter, Ishall had an equal op t •t •h h . lf . 'l , por urn y with AMSO. of enowing • for in- mated outlay of , nvo ving an esti „lsl th in Tio, Gentleman should have been devoted more !.o tleman would apply them with great , .. ) now state the course proposed f $ ht _r than words.-( Hear.) But the words rioted, it shoun:. l i: ' ' b discussion . a 3 ti these evils should and laughter.) For his own part, he must confess, ee was should enter into then e_ ,ie‘ . to . . o t tv to b takenstance, such as that Air, (-I'Cennell had been instrumental in which I' • npwards of twe . nty-eight millions, founded on . by my Right Hon : Friend : We propo!e that the the return of Mr, fteptissel by means of an aeemen t t u • enta t f s irn i e cle t urtt -two Bills have been . introduced, and been read a first 1 e ova every Bin e lye (lire_ embered, were applied to the, English Corporations- . not prepared to concur in the sweeping intentions of the be met, with the fu lest 0 00 0 t b dtt . ermnia ion t? r . . fa _ should be read a second time to-night, and go into Corn- a sum 9f Fogey was to be p 'cl • ' that certain ,in which _. S ado), that to these Petitions there appear 36 978 assents, ive H ei r , and cheers from the Opposition Members.) Let the Kieft on. Gentleman ; and . he would again impress up . . L o in abuse. So far then as the destruction of the eaisting Uorpora- mittee on Monday next N ai , arm letters had 6,5/5 dissents, and 7,475 As, how - it '• dhe would admit that his Right Hen, at bt I n- i • • Now, I wish . to know . whether the figura ihtween the parties, in whieli it was stated that money that the estimates of expected neuters.t • . • however, is notorious cot loav • Gentlemen who cheered carry out the principle, and the Right Hon. Gentleman his earnest . hope, that for the Botts w i a i sac . erne , ‘. ion, Gentleman will embody his proposition in en in. !tad been paid. 'these facto, however, might be denied, and, proceedings in Bills of this desc rip tio n first are frequently inaccurate, it D • •••Ito th . extent of i indeed, might be untrue. With regard to General Darling's is probable that, in reality, an• noel the 14 •1 ) Lt hem t the book a iiistitutionn• of the country, the Right Honourable Con- trustive f' He was a estructve ce rt a in y . c wilt n the Committee?outlay exceeding by many millions case, five dietinet charges were made against him by an Hon. the sum here stated, is involved Y ' !s o o efice f Minis side. et pu uponthe Right Hon. Gentleman who introduced the Bill, but not a Sir R. PEEL -,-I will state at Member in the of Commons, in these different undertakin s the nu i ° r the repeal of British corporations, because, if conti- tleman would ten:per his ardour with some degree of mode- . so. He was tro t r 4 tend further, that the re- Ji ve -- once that lam desirous to leased ,, . House and if the Committee The immense amount of national capital which is thus r g .ed 1 3 • at ` loOgef they bschools f ar f ear f u l p o liti ca l ration and discretion,-(Loud Isus - liter and cheering-) The whit more I Pae t° g° ll • ' p lan s the House an opportunity of d ec idi ng b etween the fwd egi tatio , ey might . ecorde sponeibility for the administration of jestieP in t , the might see those specific charges in the votes of last to be embarked, as well as the great sacrific • pro po sed t - R . I H Gentleman said, and said no doubt with perfect the towns plans submitted to it ; and with that view I shall simply move essiere between the 20th of July and the sth of A es which various landed cu- tarn ration and religious aremosities.-(Hear, hear.) At the ig it on. of should, for the sake of the peace of the country, be veeted itt 411 instruction to t conclusion, the Hon, and Learned Gentlema ugust. In proprietors or occupiers, whose property may be affected by . e time however, that 1 (the Chancellor of the Exche- sincerity, that he was for giving, in all respects, equality he Committee. If the House should nega-n stated that i s - , t he was proposed . schemes, must be called upon to make, render the de ready to with the evidence, Tor\ cleaned ,he l Lord Lieutenant d h d ••• 1t thepeople of Ireland, without any religious distinc- theteletenant ;an e was prepare to ve the count- tivo that, I shall not give the Noble Lord much trouble with would proceed trusted the Committee vision which Parliament may ultimately take upon these • .11- 1) ,, i ,2 for Ireland the application of the same general rights o - p-rmit him so to conduct the case,dvarious ,rid t n 'pies of legislation and government as were applied to tons or exclusions whatever. . 4 ' a nd h - ' d had denied, that there expression of sentiment was ever more sincere than , _ s . that - of tions of the munici al bodies, •uet so much power, and no rote forthe reading Bill,its • e jcP3m was then cleared, and on the agents being again ad- pears to you Committee to be the paramount did 4an it ap -1-10 was quite certain that no respect to the details,--,(Cheers from both sides.) I will not Th -•'' Bills, a matter of the utmost national im oi•tance • h E Id h j 'l' d nil uld be 11) • second of the because one of prat- 'milted, the CHAIRMAN intimefeel that the Coa the House ciat ti g h t b , i. e did riot eny, nor ever.lmittee had dew f , which the Right Hon. Geetleman. The Ri g ht B o n_ Gentleman tia?Ti-t as that w_ie__ eon -e $131 , -1 . 1 , 1-- w° - u ',led of Commons, to take every precaution ag • y • pon hearing the evidenee s'against the disastrous es' iy ould •to considerations connected with the former te . .consequences which must ne • • . necessarily follow, if, after the sane fll 11 from • e that in the system of religious plied, fonder the Bill now brought in by his Majesty's Mi. mised, I assent to, The other principle of the Bill I totally Evidence was then e r eee l into, but in conformity with • • . in. i (lie call for considerable modification in the details.- knew uwe , experienc , had existed too t wig , a ll ni s t e r s , t o political objects, and not with the view of vindi- dissent - tion of the Legislature has been obtained, and the work have I • - ar be ) They had already shown this when dealine. distinctions and exclusions which from ; and it appears to me that the best course to Lion of the ( - _,l‘aieman, above alluded s ee With til hear. ha • Ireland eating proper municipal privileges.-( Cheers.) Now, these hlieation of it. to, we, at present, decline the been partially proceeded with, the !3 ,. T.l th e nd , revisions of the had been the scene, had originated.-( Hear, hear.) But the wore the principles on which he considered that he was of the two measures in this: respect, is to mqya i'q ir • - • ' istruction .In the course of the morning Mr. Raphael was called and exa- when called for, should not i us, or the capitals subscribed, .4 . ' 1 • e corporations of England and Scotia , i t; 3 was the same, but the detaels and • the principa the discord and all the outrages, of which un ppe ascertain the sense of the House as to the comparaf ive Meri4 ii 4 are based turn out to be fathers • •• these P : b d h• • •1 ) •• Er, • respects from Right Hon. Gentleman ought to recollect, t inflict hat it was as oun to cypress is entire concurrence re t e proposition to the Committee on Monday ler ten substitution of my pro- mine .forthcoming. ro guard against by th ose h B i ll were very different in many fridof the evils of the • •-d evils, it seems to be absolutely necessarthat - good as to or getting t 1 e • that of position in rile pee of et the Right Hon. Gentleman . Commons should, either by • tate ' e in th Bill for Scotland : so in the present case they great an injustice to deny an act of great aileeesee C. ~ • •,• e. ..e_ e , --tee, Tllll }at not in all a great evil. upon religious grounds.-( Hear, hear.) Right Hon. 11 • Yet support the measure of the -aronc t. In preference oopotite.-( Hear hoer.) The room in which the proceedings of this Committeetrite arigid • •- itself or through its Committees, • st in i . e_. _2 .1_ _ ri,_,.. IT__ f1.......al .a L. aiinf.,l ‘,,r„.,Ans, b.,,i,,,,..h,„... , _ A ,__ _____,, , .‘ was con- , ,_ _.. more , requiry than has hitherto prevailed, into the dif Y ou the t he icse ab e out of the consolidated fund, but a few watchmen, to be paid out of the funds of the Corporation.—(Hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman then read a few words from the Act 9th Geo. IV., enacting that it should be lawful for Commissioners duly appointed to select a certain number of watchmen, and raise the necessary funds for payment of their wages, and the keeping of watchhouses, &c.—( Hear.) Here was no armed police—nor were there watchmen to be paid out of the consolidated fund, and he thought the new corporations, might fairly be trusted to establish a similar watch.— ( An Hon. Member on the Opposition side referred the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the 80th. clause of the new Bill.) Well, he would read the words of the new Bill :--" Be it enacted that the watch committee of every such borough shall on the 10th day of January, the 10th day of April, the 10th day of July, and the 10th day of October in every year, transmit to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland a report of the number of men appointed to act as constables or policemen in such borough, and of the description of arm., accoutrements, and clothing— ( Hear, hear, from the Opposition)—and other necessaries fur nished to each man," and so on. Now, as to the intention of this clause, nothing was more certain than that at the present moment there existed local Acts, which would be repealed by the present Bill, empowering the local authorities to organize and pay watchmen besides the regular police force, and that at the present moment, in the city of Limerick, both those descriptions of police existed without any clashing or incon venience. But the Right Hon. Gentlemen complained also of the power which was to be invested in the Lord Lieutenant of generally superintending or governing these constabulary bodies. The Right Hon. Gentleman complained that this was a new principle ; but he (the Chancellor of the Ex chequer) denied it to be so. It was the very same principle which the Right Hon. Gent. had adopted when framing the Bill for the English police, and which he thought proper to place under the direction of the responsilde Government of the country..—( Hear.) His Right Hon. Friend the Attorney- General for Ireland bad exhausted the subject as to the crying evils of the present corporate bodies ; and he could not believe that after the statements which his Right Hon. Friend had made, there could be any one who would doubt that the pre sent system was defective, and required alteration. The Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to concur that his Right Hon. Friend's arguments were true as related to certain boroughs which he alleged were created by James I. for certain political purposes, which purposes had ceased to exist, and therefore he admitted the boroughs should cease to exist also. Now, this was not a correct statement of the case ; for if the Right Hon. Gentleman would turn to the 25th Charles 11., he would find there rules made for the government of all the corporate towne throughout Ireland, some being mentioned in particular, others included in general terms, and there was no mention of any of them in reference to any political purpose, but solely in refe rence to their municipal affairs.—(Hear.) Before he sat down he must again call the attention of the House to what he con ceived would be the consequence of their adopting the re,- commendation of the Right Hon. Gentleman. By so doing they would be publishing a declaration that the people of Irelar.d were unworthy of trust, unworthy of self-govern ment, and that not in general terms, which would be less offensive and less dangerous, but on account of the religious differences which existed between them.—( Hear, hear.) It appeared, then, that this Bill would not have met with one word of opposition from the Right Hon. Gentleman, if it had not happened that the majority of the people of Ireland were Catholics.—(Cheering.) He was glad the Right Hon. Gen tleman did not oppose the second reading of this Bill. But he never heard of a course more at variance with what he had always understood to be the usages of Parliament than that adopted by the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman ought to have moved that the Bill be read a second time that day six months, instead of moving as he had done for leave to bring in in its place another Bill— ( Hear, hear)—to abolish all the _Municipal Corporations of Ireland--(Hear, hear)—and for the creating of a Royal Com mission, in whose hands all the funds of those Corporations should be vested, to the total neglect of any hereditary partici pation or claimant—( Hear, hear)—and adopting a totally new principle of tolls, and so on.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman was so liberal to Ireland, that he was ready on the present occasion to give up the whole ques tion of corporate property.—( Hear, hear.) He only hoped that in embracing such bold opinions, the Right Hon. Gen tleman would apply them with great caution.—( Hear, hear, and laughter.) For his own part, he must confess, he was not prepared to concur in the sweeping intentions of the Right Hon. Gentleman ; and he would again impress upon the Right Hon. Gentleman his earnest hope, that for the safety a the country and the preservation of the venerable institutions. of the country, the Right Honourable Gen tleman would tenper his ardour with some degree of mode ration and discretion,—(Loud ie.:is-liter and cheering.) The Right Hon. Gentleman said, and said no doubt with perfect sincerity, that he was for giving, in all respects, equality of rights to the people of Ireland, without any religious distinc tions or exclusions whatever. He was quite certain that no expression of sentiment was ever more Sincere than that of the Right Hon. Geetleman. The Right Bon. Gentleman knew 'full well, from experience, that in the system of religious distinctions and exclusions which had existed too /prig, all the discord and all the outrages, of which unhappy lielered had been the scene, had originated.—( Hear, hear.) But the Right Hon. Gentleman ought to recollect, that it was as great an injustice to deny an act of great good as to inflict a great evil, upon religious grounds.—( Hear, hear.) Yet that was the proposal of the Right Hon. Gentleman, not openly and explicitly stated • perhaps (the Right Hon. Gentleman was too prudent for that), but certainly inferred, and that pretty clearly, not only by what had fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman himself, but from other quarters out of the House, evidently upon something like authority. He had lately seen a pamphlet in which it was stated that the Protestant Corporations of Ireland were the safe guard of the Protestant religion in Ireland ; and further, that the Protestant religion in Ireland was the sole security for the continuance of the British connection.—( Hear, from the Opposition.) That was an acknowledgment of the doctrine which lie was gratified to hear.—(Cheers from the Ministerial Benches.) What he had now to say upon the subject was, that he did not believe that assertion, He believed that the connection between the two countries was founded upon a con sideration of the true interests and best feelings of large majority of the people of both cettotries—( Hear, hear)-ees connection of governments, which, if e,dministered upon fair and just principles, indiscriminately between Cetholic and Pro testant, must in the end tend to ensure the safety of the two countries, the peace of the general community, and the vigorons and efficient administration of the law.—( Hear, bear.) But on the other hand, by alleging that the Catholics of Ireland were inimical to the connection with England, you went the very way to create those jealousies and antipathies which might produce the very evil predicted. No doubt there was a risk to be incurred in all political changes of the kind. There was risk in passing the English Parliamentary Reform Bill—there was risk in passing the English Corporation Bill; but there was not a tenth part as much risk in passing the present Bill for regulating the corporations of Ireland as there had been in passing the Irish Parliamentary Reform Bill, which was carried by the House, and zealously supported by many Hon. Members whom he now saw opposite.--( Cheers.) After having given this engine of political power to the Irish people—after having put arms into their hands—by now seek ing this petty mode of aggravating their power, of inciting them to discord, and of (he had almost said) re-producing— ( Hear, hear)--the political agitation which they had too long carried on, they would be but alders and abettors in those dis cords and that unhappy agitation.—( Loud cheers.) He re gretted to have occupied so much of the time of the House.— (Cheers.) He wished to support the present Bill by the best means in his power : he felt bound out of justice to Ireland, to apply those just principles of equality which had been ap plied to England to Ireland also—modified only in the details by the circumstances peculiar to each country.—( Hear, hear.) Do not let the House degrade the whole population of one portion of the empire, by pointing out to them the rights and 'social institutions enjoyed by their fellow-subjects on the other s'ele of the water, and then telling them that those rights and enjoyn:Pnts are to be 'withheld from themselves.—( Loud and continued cbeering.) Lord STANLE y said he had been so pointedly referred to both by the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman who opened the debate, and atop by the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down , th a t he must be permitted to say a few worth, though he felt that this was not the proper oppor tunity for entering upon a fun discusst.in of the rival plans just submitted to the House.—(lronical crins of " Hear, hear," and laughter, from the Ministerial benches,) He knew not what had excited the risibility of the House in the expression of the rival plans for effecting one and the same object.—( Hear, hear.) That object was, as both parties were agreed, to frame a measure of great good for Ireland by doing away with the corporate institutions of that country as they existed at present, and substitute others in their stead. —(Hear, hear.) For doing this, two plans were now before the House and the public, arid the House and the public would base to judge which of the two was most likely to attain the desired end.—( Hear, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend, who had just sat down, said he could not see how it would he pos sible for those who supported the Irish Parliamentary Reform Bill to withhold their assent from the main feattiree of the present Bill.—( Hear.) He (Lord Stanley) had been a warm and cordial supporter of the Irish Parlia mentary Reform Bill, and he was as anxious as any one could be to sde Ireland enje7ing full and impartial justice, and the liberty of freely and fully expressing her political feeli ngs ; but at the same time lie much rieuisted whether it was advisa ble to run the risk of mixing up political 414c0ssion and agita tion with the management cif her internal affairs ' alreedy suf ficiently disturbed by the religious and political differeitees which existed in the country.--,(dear, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend Ore Chancellor of the Ei4e4iner) said it was the same injustice whether you withheld a greet good or inflicted a great evil upon Ireland, But he would ask, was it certain that the system proposed would prove a great good to Ireland ? Would it produce impartial justice in Ireirted,,,-(Hear, hear, from the Opposition, echoed by cheers from the Ministerial side) ? Would it inskue peace and tranquillity ? Weeld it drown religious differences and legal animosities ?—( Hear, r E , p,nd cheers as before.) If ti(iit4a4 would indeed be a would evrenc to with tglrniesabt ougoodteldad; p s o o u , n t t I:ye,n andhe 'w o o l a u with hold it. But that wear th e very question which they bad to diecuss—(Hear from the lipeeetion)—and until that ques tion hs4 been discussed and deciaetti, .4o i..eeit let them persist in forcing thrlyib a measure which might prove on Fontrary very curse to the ,041Ary.--( Loud cheers.) His Right Hon. Frieis4 seid it would ;he ife z o ,;..e to legislate for Ireland u p on a ny other principle than that adoptedteesserds England —that it wc uld be unjeet for Scotland to be allowed to ch oose h er own municipal officers, Ned to regulate corporate affairs, an d not Irel an d, N ow i re liaphe,nel .p) re,eoile,ct i. 9 ,11av ,seen an au thority u p on thi s ,very subject, ,he wa,s „Sure would stand rather high in the estimation of the i l looei and lie would quote that authority, and read to the House a passage in a speech delivered by his Right Hon, Friend himself.—( Hear, hear,) a is i n w hi ch the chief professors of the science of agita t on would be made the chosen instruments for wielding the . !sr e il force i n the dispensation of public justi ce . (Th e Ri g h t !I re Baronet concluded amidst loud cheering, which lasted for several minutes. ) The CHANCELLOR of 'the EXCHEQUER said when he compared the stat ement t h at h a d b een j ust ma d e w i th the facts when he comp are d th e Bill t h at was propose d w i th the measure that had been described—and above all, when he Compared the consequences of the Bill, an d t oo k u p on hi mse lf to look at the results which must f o ll ow f rom t h e re j ect i on o f the Bill—(Cheers)—it was then, indeed, be felt, however per sonally unequal, j us tifi e d i n answer i ng, an d h e h oped fully and co eepletely, the Right lion. Gentleman.—( Hear.) He might take the liberty of saying (without meaning any dis rf spect to t h e Right Hon. Gentleman) that there ran anthrough the whole of his brilliant speech one strain of sophistry --(Hear)—and through which he would have occasion to pursue him briefly. He would refer to one single instance theproof o f t hi s. The Right Hon. Gentleman had, with greatest power, commented upon this—that greater P.!)iver had b een g i ven to the town-councils in Ireland than in %%eland. And why did the Right Hon. Gentleman say so? cause, said th e Ri g h t H on. G ent l eman, t h e new town uncils, unconnected with mete or commerce, would have the power of interfering with voluntary associations, such as chambers would of co mmerce ; an d t h e Ri g h t H on . G ent l eman asked ‘ould they s a n c ti on an y suc h p ower i n a t own - counc il ? 'IV, no such power was given in the Bill.—( Cheers.) There lvaa not a single word which would enable town-councils ap- Pointed under the Bill to act in the way that had been sug 4.e'led•—f Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman stated this for the purpose of argument, which was a recommendation of th e commissioners, and which was not adopted in the Bill— ,Continued cheering)—and then mixing up that recommen dation which was not in the Bill, but used as an argument a gainet the Bill, the Right Hon. Gentleman appealed to them, and bade them remember the chamber of commerce of Man chester, and asked them, would they tolerate an interference with such an association ? and this too was done for the pur pose of raising an impression amongst those who had not at tended to the details of the Bill.—( Hear, and cheers.) This ag just a specimen of the conduct of the Right Hon. Gentle ,ga with respect to this Bill.—( Hear.) He would take ano•6ler gmlmple, and one more important. The Right Hon. fr e atiellan had mainly relied upon the results which would flow ri ° ff sa the ,Bill with respect to the appointment of corporation she t upon this it was argued that such powers were to he applied 12 0 towe's, when the fact was there were only eight towns in which:sht townsthnse officers were to be appointed. There were only iie which there were Corporation Sheriffs, and But h were to be continued under the present Bill.—( Hear.) upon the fact the suggestion was raised that Sheriffs were rowed in all the towns. But he now went to show . that . the ti o l l i t l j,?,n e . a Gentleman had not dealt candidly with this ques- When that Right Hon. r bear and cheers. ) that, spoke of the adrcinistratio.n of ju . stice, he would say ti at , in the anxiety for the preservation of its pure administra tion,he was disposed to go as far as that Right Hon. Gentle -1 If there were provisions in the Bill that were defective, Gentle let them discuss those provisions. It was his wish that the ad kinistration of justice should be pure. He said that the man -I'ev of dealing with this question by the Right Hon. Gentle showed too much of Parliamentary dexterity—for he dwelt 1,-111 t; on certain points of the Bill, and excluded others which I w ere ahswers to him, and the arguments upon which he relied. e e „tene of the Right Hon. Gentleman had been taken up by R ight Hon. Friend; for, as far as he could collect from the te" r 9, Positions of . the Right Hon. Gentleman,d b it amounted to Cor poration ' L that th ere s h ou le a total and entire abolition of rights.--( Hear, from the Opposition, and cheers from f° e Mini ster i al Mem b ers. ) A nx i ous as h e h a d been for a re ,"m in the Corporations of England, Scotland. and Ireland, he like to know how ke and his friends should have met the Route if they had come to it, with a proposition for the ex ket'on of all Corporate rights ?e-( Continued cheering.) nee he s h ould say that b e coild scarcely agree with the et ig e u a t Gentleman.—( Hear.) If he thoroughly *lnder e: 1 7 toe arg umen t o f the Right Hon. Gentleman, it was as Aretble to the English as the Irish Corporation Reform th The very words that had been animedverted upon of e h e school s of peaceful agitation " proved this—end he really e t ', 3 u,ght that upon such a subject the great powers of the throat Hon. Gentleman should hays been devoted moee to he ugs than words.—( Hear.) But the words quoted, it shouiel threernembered, were applied to the English Corporations— ar, and cheers from the Opposition Members. ) Let the .move Gentlemen who cheered carry out the principle, and N for the repeal of the English Corporations.—( Cheers tio :n the Ministerial side.) Let them put upon the book a ou ''ce for the repeal of British corporations, because, if conti lentigef, they might become schools for fearful political -4 "oll and r l . gi religious animosities.—(Hear, hear.) At the ti sl e 4l er e e ti lif how e ee i- er o , that he (the Chancellor of the Exche l)ria claim e d for Ireland the application of the same general „ c 'ldes of legislation and government as were applied to Tu lland, he did not deny, nor ever had denied, that there t be local considerations connected with the former which g fe °u lll call for considerable modification in the details. — e ar, hear.) They had already shown this when dealing in te the corporations of England and Scotland ; the principle Er,o!' n was the same, but the details and provisions of the h'ilsh Bill were very different in many respects from t e ee se in th e Bill for Scotland : so in the present case they s h e details of the principle of the English Bill, but not in all le e details when legislating for Ireland. There might be ia ",2e e details in the former which, if epplie . d to Ireland, might th r schools for peaceful political ag:tation. To throw out si 3 Bill would be an act ef injustice to the nation, an expres ththea.of distrust ill the whole people of Ireland,. and would . . be a t lounciation of an universal school for political agitation te r 's " s e n hout the country.—( Hear, hear.) He felt srongly on felt i t I . lect, because he recollected the course which h . e had the R e 's duty to take two years age in opposing a motion for Wes e e rai of the Union in that House.--( Hear, hear.) It, Noiich he s e he opposed the Repeal of that Union—a Union g llicices s te e° ,asidered to be of benefit to Ireland—that he . was , tti tiens of have no just cause of complaint in any of the i.nsti ,'"° leav f e`uat country. How could the House reconcile itself in the 1 ;C" Corporations of Ireland in the situation described inerle o 'Tufts of the Commissioners ? He could not help e re- G e tl g' as somewhat singular, that whilst the Right Hon. roa th e e ase , n°l3 pesed the motion of drawing an analogy between '4 4 4 o ' i England and ',eland, there were some points in allel e he ,- e ndeavoured to support his arguments by that very Plai ee T -- ( Hear, h ear .) The Right Hon. Gentleman com in that the power proposed by this Bill to be vested W as g Lord Lieutenant, of granting charters for the future, We e t t rre gene ra l an d extens i ve t h an i n th e English Bill. Per sob !" this Power were too general or not, would be a . pro- T hey J, e ef for discussion when this Bill was in Committee. p r i aei wiere here at present, not to discuss the details, but the Hoe. V of the measure. Another observation of the Right t atie e g.n„tietnan was, that the effect of the English Corpo- Pare • was to th row the power out of the hands of one ingot into those of another. Now this was not a fair state- Pow er the object of Co oration Reform was to take the th roe o ut of th e b ands of a few and diffuse it more equally tie * en th e whole community in genera l. Wh oever dis 'edited the new Corporations, therefore, distrusted the great . so n l: ' the whole nation.—( Hear, hear.) The- Right the be _ Gentleman had spoken of the constant agitation which to; b ill Corporate institutions would be likely to give rise `'rentsl, he had not condescended to draw one of his argu ';'ils , a r °nl the practical working of the new Bill in vari- If ",! e s throughout the ' country.—( Cries of " Hear, hear.") kee e were °netdangers and diseentions existing in Ireland on °4 = te llai r a t , ( l . the . present state of her society, these would not eep e zr ee obviated or corrected by a Bill like ionic ; but to the single motion by which that refusal of refusing them P l aihed w "id be carried, - the mischief's' of wh'ich they corn ask th e I , w _tmld be most effectually perpetuated. He would . Parti a l a ,"lse, would the refuse to Ireland right ai . Ael !m -tehheers ennaniini,stration of . justice Hear, hear, and ironical the Opposition.) Gentlemen who cheered were I, ()se wh o `,.. v eieh L a , °II several occasions had opposed various proposals aira i n ' te li . eeti offered for improving the administration of :'aced Cve tL , municipal corporations of England, who had re ',lone r , r)• attack upon the vested rights of those corpora eoly dis t' io last year ; and yet those very gentlemen were fati oos P °4 'd to make one general sacrifice of all the corpo- Without in Ireland—a sort of "murder of the innocents"— Nall y i n r nlorse or exception.—( Loud laughter.) He would .'ite the Right Hon. Gentleman to continue the sys hiht w i ti t e le b li l l i i! had heretofore adopted . in cases of . this kind, "Olt It seemed now to be entirely abandoning. The tatiees lie Gentleman had abandoned the whole of the corpo cot , 'rebind, and every thing connected with them, to sig for "ueennation.—( Hear.) There was not one word of excuse f ee - Y Party or , our of t , Person beloeging to them ; not one word in , ue burgesses. the freemen, the aldermen, or the N'o op. , e , t ic i .z. ni They are all to be thrown ' down " at one fell °I ti e - \-,neers and laughter.) Now he (the Chancellor P o sa 43(ehe quee) acceded to the fullest extent in this pro pi;olgel'iaie_ with them all, said he ; but whilst they destroyed t w b as aexieuPsetoof self-election which had existed hitherto, he iitilkeernent of tleifaeilrt rt, L ean s a su lo PP Y the people of Ireland in its place with_ government the best calculated for the had own municipal affairs.—(Hear, Ireland 'be t e n tOO e with regret, that the people of much lie eagitated by local and religious animosities; se he did not ot red believe nse that they were so totally lost to the Passions son and that so depraved and debased by their , .as to require then' to be derived of the right of .fie own e9nceete—( Hear, hear.) The fact was, , era Gentleman felt th a t un l ess he brought for lost; 40rn new on th e present occas i on, hi s case was et'll le s . " sr . a '• l'veitY, the Right Hon. Gentleman called tre:ii.: _ ed‘u lend, who last year had opposed the clause in the fi b ei v 'e g .' ti :Lo o nicipal . Reform Bill, for assigning the power of oundarres of the borough to the King in Council— Ziolposal foe the thnetlflose very Gentlemen now to support him in a formation of a Royal Commission to conso fueleaY, and and to' appropriate too—((fear, hear)—all the li_aleveoboele.engrreaoifenedtrt of the corporations of feeland. Why, if had proposed such a thing, what n cry would niece sy stem . n against them, of endeavouring to ereate . a e e p lect, to the e inancy in Ireland 1—( Loud cheers.) *rah appointment of the magistrates, it was f uture Plai ned that the magistrates at present exist life, but , c , e would b ntl emon e elected annually. Was the Right Bon. Buri n „ aware how t T h h e e magistrates were appointed, and "fie e, what periods', ed aunually end fac . t . was, they were at present t .' wi s h ed t lad to solicit the votes of the freemen if io e was v contm ue in office.—( (Hear. ) 3 Now this elec.- %tent( to little better than re nomination ;. 1 . .1 • it too fre ttoilLentls,naenda that the. eote po of a single individual gave the is was one of the sources of the greatest c 'terit in th e H". Gentleman towns. The next complaint of the rd tleman was, that the Bill would give the ' :t abul a ee ant a N ._ y f ore _ n unprecedented power of appointing aeon th° v what and police officers in the Corporation towns. e Power . very s esas there to be given by this Bill ? Why gtVitig the ar n e e as that already given by the eth Geo. IV. Itwas "wer aPpointing,not an armed police force pay_ It was on the occasion of the debate on the repeat question. His Right Hon. Friend's words were as follow—[The Noble Lord read the passag e to the following effect] : " Sir, constitutional liberty I am ready to worship, but I reject the idol of democratic liberty.—(Hear, hear, hear.) I don't Wish to speak disparagingly of my own country, but' from what you see of the violence of Irish parties, will you surrender the people of the country to the tender mercies—l must use the word—of a domestic legislature ?—( Cheers from the Opposition.) Would you surrender the people of that country to the tender mercies of conflicting factions ? Don't you know that the inevitable consequence of such a conflict and collision of opinion will be to produce a sanguinary civil war?—( Cheers repeated from the same quarter.) Does the Hon. and Learned Gent. (Mr. O'Connell) think, because there is a certain preponderance of physical force in those dis tricts, that you will compel the sturdy spirits of the North to submit without a struggle? That struggle would immediately commence between the parties into which the people of that country are divided, on the passing of such a measure as the re= peal of the Union—where it would close who could tell ? What was begun in folly would end in crime ; and the ultimate con sequence would be the entire destruction of our country.".— ( Loud and long continued cheers from the Opposition.) Now, here was the paragraph to which the Right Hon. Gent., draw ing himself the distinction between the circumstances of the people of England and the state of parties in England, with the circumstances of the people of Ireland and the state of parties in that country, told the House that in consequence of the violence of conflicting parties—nay, his Right Hon. Friend showed successfully that the people of Ireland being divided into two classes, one of which was a most important body, though in a physical minority to a large amount, the consequence of. the establishment of .a domestic legis lature in such a state of things would be to tear out the vitals of the country, and to produce a civil war.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition.) lie asked his Right Hon. Friend, then, to carry his extended view into a little mere nsie note details ; and called- upon him to say whether, if this be the state of things—namely, that there is one party, in a nu merical point of - view, infinitely superior, but lower in the scale of society (I speak, of course, with regard to the bulk of the population), and that there- was another party infinitely inferior in numbers, but possessing a greater portion of the wealth and intelligence—he asked his Right Hon. Friend whether, in every town in Ireland, containing such classes of inhabitants, he would year after year, and during several periods of the same year, consent to have these parties brought into collision with respect to every question which concerned their domestic and closest interests ?—( Loud cheers.) He was not there about to enter at any great length into a discussion of the prin ciples on which this measure was founded ; there t' ould, no doubt, be another opportunity for doing so, There was no opposition, as far as he was aware, to the second reading of this Bill.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh from the Ministerial side.) His Right Hon. Friend seensed to consider that those who sat at his ( Lord Stanley's) side of tiro These who supported the second reading of the Bill were incertsistP4 ill taking the course which it was signified they would take - -,a s s eeree in which he unequivcesal.4 and distinctly expressed his concur- - rence, inasmuch as they gr g adopted the principle of the present Bill, and next that their preempt course was at vari ance with the view which they took on the ar4tind-Olesst to the Address. He humbly took the liberty of saying that theep was no inconsistency whatever in their proceedings.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) We did object, and should ob ject again, to be tied down to the asisspliott of the principle of a Bill which was not distinctly explained Lily farther than that it was prorsiscd that the principle of the English hill should be followed up to the fullest extent. What were the principles of this Bill ? There were two principles in the Bill (though they were so embodied its the measure that it was difficult to ceparate one from the other); one of which was the abolition of the existing corrupt system, and the other was the adoption of popular exertion in all the towns. To the first of these he acceded willingly and cheerfully. The other would not produce, he thought, the beneficial effects anticipated from it, and he was prepared to adopt a different course from that which his Fight Hon. Friend had selected with reference to that question. But let.his Right lion. Friend leave a single grievance unredressed or a vice unremedied of those the existing system created—if there was even the smallest ground of justifiable complaint on the part of any human being . affected by the proposed measure, then he should enter into the discussion as ne how these evils should be met, with the fullest possible determination to remove every abuse. So far then as the destruction of the existing Corpora tions was concerned, he would admit that his Right Hon, Friend bad designated him properly by calling hire a " Des trustive f" He was a Destructive certainly to the extent of the Right Hon. Gentlemen who introduced the Bill, but not a whit more so. He was prepared to oentend further, that the re sponsibility for the administration of jestiee in the towns should, for the sake of the peace of the country, be vested in the Lord Lieutenant; and he was prepared to give the muni cipal bodies, or rather those substituted to exercise the func tions of the municipal bodies, just so much power, and no more, as that which could be applied, and would be ap plied, tinder the Bill now brought in by his Majesty's Mi nisters, to political objects, and not with the view of vindi cating proper municipal privileges.—( Cheers.) Now, these were the principles on which La considered that he was bound to express his entire concurrence in the proposition for getting rid of the evils of the existing system, and to support the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet in preference to that of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, because he contended that a measure strictly applicable to England would, if applied to Ireland under the cover of a fancied ana logy, inflict a curse instead of a blessing—(Cheers)_—and un der the fancied assimilation of the administration of justice, have the effect of withholding that justice in Corporate and Municipal concerns which the people of Ireland had a right to expect,--( Hear, hear.) He was prepared to give that equal justice to all Protestants and Catholics ; but there was one thing which he was determined, so far as he could, not to al, low that these bodies should be erected on an ascendancy of one class over another, but that they . should exercise over all equally and alike, the impartial administration of Government and their laws,—( Loud cheers, ) Mr. SHEIL said that the Noble Lord bad stated that he would not on that occasion discuss the principle of the Bill. Why did he abstain from doing so ? What more apt oppor- Amity could be presented, and from what motive did he reserve the display of his faculties for another night? Surely the prin. ciple of the Bill sinsold be discussed on the second reedin g and the details in the Oesismittee. Did the - Noble L or d in tend to invert the natural order of discussion, and debate the details before the principle, and the principle a ft er t h e d e . tails ? His light Hon. leader the Member for Tamworth— ( Cheers and laughter)-444 not taken that course, for he had not only gone into the principle of the Bill, but struck directly at its foundation. Lord STANLEY---It may save the Learned Gentleman trouble, if I now apprise him that it is intended to debate, and to divide, on a subsequent occasion, on going into th e committee, Mr, SHEIL thanked the Noble Lord for his kindness in in timating the result of his consultation with his new colleagues on the other side of the House.—(Cheers.) Th e N obl e Lord had boldly 'gated that he put the question on religious grounds. The Right Hon. Member for Tamworth had not said so much : with his habitual: caution and characteristic skill, h e h a d only dealt in insinuations, w:iiie the Noble Lord, who had not made any proficiency in prudence, even with the aid of so va l u able an instructor as the Right Honourable Member for Tain wor tl e with a great deal of frankness, and he hoped with not a little honesty, at once let the truth escape from him, an d de elated that as had he wo uld deny, to Ireland the sam e mun i c i pa l in stitutions been con erred upon the law, from sectari an or if he pleased so to call them, frcru religious considerations, How did this accord with the passage in the speech of the Noble (but somewhat incongruous) Lord, made in 1833, and which the Attorney ,, General had referred to ? In that speech, so replete with lo f ty sentiment s , and so much in contrast with the Noble Lord's existing position, the Noble Lord had de clared that all distinctions between Catholic and Protestant ought, by the E manci p ation A ct , to be buried in everlasting oblivion ; yet he now resuscitate s and evokes them, when to tohiN%pb purpose Lordwithheldposetheyma' be mad e su b serv i ent. But although the from those whom he still pe: - sevcred is calling his Noble Friends the benefit of his support, he could not take away from them the Advantage of his autho r ity, Ile had abanclonpa hi s party , hut his nould not subvert his former principles from the solid basis on which they rested. lie had gone, indeed, to the enemy's camp, but he had left his arms behind.—(Loud cheers.) The Noble Lord could not do the same jetriment to his argument as to his character, nor deal with his logic as it lied unhappily pleased him to deal with his reputation. —( Loud cheers.) 'file abuses of Irish Corporations were admitted, But where was the discovery of these abuses first made 1 When did this lit of virtue seize the Conservatives, by whoni they were stow for the first time deplored? Did they not know that property was plundered, that justice was vitiated to its source, that to the foulest political instrumentality Corporations had been turned?—( Hear ?tear,) When the House compared the former connivance of the Tory party, and their protesta. tions of newly and suddenly and must unexpectedly excited horror, at deformities with which they were so familiar, it was not unreasonable to conjecture that they abandoned Corpora tions because they could no longer serve their turn, that they would abolish all that was sound, because they could not pre serve what was rotten, and that they would fell these institu tions to the earth not because they had yielded poison, but be cause they mig ht be made to bear salutary fruit. The Righ t Hon, Member for Tamworth was indeed afraid that these Cur puratione 5iic..4141 become, as the Member for Dublin had said, normal schools of agitation, but the Right Hon. Baronet had never objected to them wheo they were the polyteolmie schools in whiela Ceoservatism breugist up its pqpila.--:(1_ l ood cheese% ) He (Mr. Shell) joined most cordially pi the declaration made by the Attorney-General, when he 'protested that he should never propose this Bill if he thought it would lead to the a s eendaney o f an y party. lie was convinced that if the coun try w ere wa il g overne d, the religious discords that were t he bsne of Ireland, would die away. I.4veil t o It wEl s, the Roman Catholics, in the Paereise ef . IT4teVer power they pos sessed tions. Hi s co ll eague i n the second county of Ireland was a n s Inver consulted their religious prejudices or p redilec Er,glishnt 4 an d a P ro testant, with a large Cromwelli an of estate, which he spade the best end noblest use. In the adjoining cou n ty o f 'Waterford ? twe Brotest4l}4, 'Sir R. Mus grave and r. Stuart, were retornesi by the Komar} Catholic electors. h emsae obsprvaticn' would apply tq several othe r counties. - la t e reli g i qu.s an invities nf Ireland were foment ed by the law, acid A the pistitutique of OP pcgilliFYl W ith whose reform they would Soon expire. Restore Ireland to a rational condition, and every individual would soon lose all unnatu ral power, while, beyond a doubt, as in every other country, property would resume its rational influence. But with what face do the Conservatives talk of religious animosities? 1 3 Y whom ar . ,e, tlig ;p ost sedulp u Look et ue publib journap its 'thsly fostered and maintained ? eir interest, and at •the temis saries of theological rateour'whOin they send as incendaries , to propagate the worst feelingsi arid insulate detestation — Colonel SIBTHORP said a few 'wards, but the noise in the House was such, that they were inaudible in the gallery. Mr. HROTHINTON roso.—( A laugh, and a general movement of the Members towards the door.) The Bill was then read a ssoond time, and ordered to be committed on Monday, . . _ The other orders of the day having been disposed of, at a quarter past twelve o'vlook the House adjourned. CARLOW ELECTION SELECT COMMITTIT, As soon as the Committee had assembled yesterday, W. O'CONNELL addressed the members, strenuously urging that the investigation might be an open one, for justice to himself demanded such a course, and he was most anxious for a full and complete in quiry, as he feared not the result. The room was then cleared, and on the agents beinc , called in, viz., Mr. Lyon , for the petitioners , and Mr. Joseph ' Parkes on behalf of Mr. D. O'Connell and others, The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Ridley Colborne) stated that the Com mittee would be conducted with open doors, but it was most essen tial that the evidence could not be allowed to be printed, such a course being contrary to the rules and proceedings which ge verned all similar investigations. After this intimation he trusted that every body would feel the justice and propriety a adhering to the suggestion. The preliminary part of the investigation, as to the mode of con ducting the inquiry, &c,, we apprehend, will no t come un d er th e Ch a i rm an's injunction, and therefore, as far as that is concerned, we have given the following report : Mr. O'CONNELL begged to be allowed to address the Committee before evidence was gone into, upon two points : the first related to the nature of the investigation, and as he apprehended evidence would be gone into en the part of those who conducted the inquiry, he should have evidence to oiler ; and secondly, he should most likely be required to give evidence himself. The CHAIRMAN said as the Hon. and Learned Member had nominee, he (Mr. O'Connell) would not be allowed to put Ties, tions himself to the witnesses. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman must be aware of the propriety of such a cnuoie, Mr. O'CoNNELL wishuti before any decision were come to to be permitte4 in Address a few reasons to the Committee as to th e na ture a the charge, There appeared to him to be nothing specific i n t h e accusations brought against him, and he really was at a loss to know how justice could be done him unless he distinctly under stood what the charges in point of fact were. As he had already intimated, lie wished to know whether he was to be present during the inquiry, because he should have probably to be examined as a witness? Tpe CHAIRMAN expressed regret at being obliged t 3 interrupt Mr. O'Connell, but it was essential to abide by the rules laid down in other cases. Mr. O'CossEr.t. said, if any doubt existed, he would slimily quit the room ; and he immediately got up for that pur pose when Ml'. 'WARBURTON rose and said ti; 11) Jfr. Shell's case that Hon. and Learned Gerltleman %vas allowed to be present ; but he forgot whether iq tlenural Darling's case that Hon. and Ciallont ient lonian was present. Mr. O'CoN:sur.r. said that General Darling did remain in the room when the investigation was being carried an, and so did Mr. I). W. Harvey. (THIS DAY.) The room in shich the proceedings of this Committee was con ducted yesterday having been found too small for the accommoda tion of the public, the Committee assembled this morning in the Vice-Chancellor's Court. Air. WA Ratun•roN thought that justice would be denied Jr. O'Connell were he not equally permitted to remain. Was it not essential that Mr. O'Connell should hear what the nature of the evidence was which was about to be gone into, to sub 6tantiate certain general charges? He must say that he thought, unlesi such were the ease, justice would not be conceded to I.‘b, O'Connell. Precisely at twelve o'clock Sir R. COLBORNE took the Chair. Mr. Raphael's re-examination was then proceeded with, and was not ended when we went to Dress. The 6;;AItIIAN said no doubt could oziO that Mr. O'Con nell Would be entitled to relnaAlA he were not to become a witness. DUBLIN ELECTION COMMITTEE. The Committeeiesumed their sitting; yesterday morning in the cfaVirt et Chancery. Sir Rufane Dunkin, since the Committee last met, has vacated his seat, and this gave rise to a question whe.: Hier, as he had been re-elected to Parliament, but not to the Com mittee, the Inquily could proceed. After some dis c u ss io n , it was decided that the Committte should proceed with its labours. No thing material occurred, and it was agreed, after some observations from the Learned Counsel on either side, thatthe ComMittee would proceed to-morrow (this day) with the question of the paving and lighting rate, by which many votes are likely_to be affected. (THIS DAY.) The Members of this Committee met this morning in the Court of Chancery, according to adjournment. The , first business pro ceeded with was the opening of the boxes and parcels containing the evidence. They presented a large mass of papers, which will require no liitle patience on the part of Hon. Gentlemen to go through. Mr, TutssicEa proceeded to address the Committee on behalf of the ejected Members. He defended the conduct of the Com missioners against the insinuations brought forward against them by the friends of the sitting Members. The Learned 'Gentleman at considerable length went through portions of the evidence taken at Dublin, and commented strongly upon the conduct of the agents and Counsel for the sitting Members. He contended that the object of the sitting Members throughout was delay ; but he hoped the Committee would shortly be able to decide upon the merits of the case, and seat his clients, Messrs. West and Hamilton, in the places usurped by Messrs. O'Connell and Ruthveu. The Learned Gentleman had just concluded when our Reporter left, by propos ing to go into the question relating to the disqualification of voters for non-payment of the paving-tax in the city of Dublin. Mr. WAan stated, that Mr. Harvey conducted his own case, and that he was afterwards examined as a witness, Mr. Sergeant WILDE said he felt considerable difficulty on ac count of a want of specific charges, and that difficulty had been in creased rather than weakened by the present arrangement. He knew nothing beyond the Committee of the evidence, having had only a short conversation with Mr. O'Connell. He was aware only of what the public knew throtigh the publication of certain letters, but beyond that he knew nothing. He had not the least notion what was intended to be done by his Hon. and Learned Friend. The charges against Mr. O'Connell were of so extremely general a nature that he knew not how to grapple with them. The Committee was called upon by the House to inquire into certain c n i o r t cu st m at s e ta d t . ices It seemed, therefore, election,oftheCarlow essential that he sliu but whatthesueri avehreite the advantage of Mr, O'Connell Nyließ the Oidetioe was given ; for ti rre PPialit he othei: facts nemsATl far investigation which Mr. es in nr to Y ttheeixracmhainraecttchre. alWeareq to him to be the difficulties with which he was sm.- rennde c t, aqd, he must submit, that it appeared it, him Indispensable to have Mr, O'Connell present, S)r R. "w witnesses° House harsh 7 G Such 1 l I 1 40: os ioa vi :a e p h i . 4 1 S. eli ge d: t 1.'V ° Itl it a ra view might t o of be Sifting ne c R . - - - viairllTA9ll tbaught it would only be an act of justice that Mrt (Mormon should be in the room during the inquiry. He l' s „?, lieved, however, that Mr. O'Connell's own good seusa would in struct him that, during the investigation, hp w,ood not attempt to address the Committee, since a uquAinv had been appointed by the absence. Lord Fit.l . ic t ,G .B , T . .ox. was of opinion that it would he a, very Anoth if 't* . ComMittee insisted upon; Mr.. qcmmell's er-HoN. GENr4 4 I,;MAN emnlmecl A §,hAil i a. QpiAtion, The Clt t r , ,' l i t'll-NN 04' ,1 , , 1 $1i.(1%4E.4 lit the sA Vl'Aittill #l4 1\1; . ... Q cunnell should be present, and of course • Mr.. Raphael might statednoran t beyond the t a he i m ,, s i likewise t g i. h u t i4o prove, . no communication with Mr. attend ßapha i e f l dh , Sir F. l'ou.oci: said that he was very nearly in the same situa , tion as his Hon. and Learned Friend, for lie knew little more of the matter than his Hon. and Learned Friend did. He had had I :: t;h:o V u C e i g o h:t o sv p:r ti o ptfl.;':ni ig norant know precisely w - Ot • the'. ' sSbj,eal'of. til inquiry Mr. Sergeant W ILDE f . , , gps wd tv a t it ipigbt b.;. expedient to re quired something special'a to the' motive of the charges w"justOicueld be ent" of the “ to inrire into the traffic mitt arrangement" of Carlow n given. by the House to the Committee, From this statement it appears that there have been presented to the House fifty-seven Petitions for Railways, involving an esti mated outlay of upwards of twenty-eight millions, founded on which thirty-two Bills have been introduced, and been read a first time; also, that to these Petitions there appear 36,978 assents, 6,575 dissents, and 7,475 neuters. As, however, it is notorious that the estimates of expected cost given in at the first stage of proceedings in Bills of this description are frequently inaccurate, it is probable that, in reality, an outlay exceeding by many millions the sum here stated, is involved in these different undertakings. The immense amount of national capital which is thus proposed to be embarked, as well as the great sacrifices which various landed proprietors or occupiers, whose property may be affected by the proposed schemes, must be called upon to make, render the de cision which Parliament may ultimately take upon these various Bills, a matter of the utmost national importance; and it ap pears to you Committee to be the paramount duty of the House of Commons, to take every precaution against the disastrous consequences which must necessarily follow, if, after the sanc tion of the Legislature has been obtained, and the work have been partially proceeded with, the calculations upon which they are based turn out to be fallacious, or the capitals subscribed, when called for, should not be forthcoming. ro guard against; these evils, it seems to be absolutely necessary that the House of Commons should, either by itself or through its Committees, insti tute a more rigid inquiry than has hitherto prevailed, into the dif ferent plans ; and that, whilst no discouragement should be cast upon enterprise, which, if properly directed, cannot fail to be bene ficial to the nation, the character of these undertakings should not he permitted to be sacrificed, nor the national capital thrown away, under the temporary excitement of the public mind which appears to prevail at this moment, through any want of due attention by the Committees, or of information in the House. Deeply impressed with this opinion, your Committee proceeded to the task assigned them. The first subject for their consideration Was the possibility of in stituting some preliminary investigation into the merits of Railway schemes, to be undertaken for this information of the House pre vious to the Bills being rend a second time, and they felt it their duty to ascertain whethe r , with a view to discussion before the se cond reading of Bills should be allowed to proceed, or even for the assistance of the Committee' to which they should be referred, it was possible for a•::y impartial eng i neer , b y examination of the plans and calculation s of each Railway scheme, to snake a Report upon them, which should be serviceable. For this purpose they applied to the Ordnance departme n t ; but, upon inquiry of a military engineer, it was found that without a personal survey of the ground proposed to be traversed, it would not be possible for any such Report to be of use, anr; therefore, with. reference to the Bills now in the House, it was at once clear, that the time necessary for such a proceeding, even if it was considered advisable, would render it impracticable, They then adverted to the Standing Orders; and although the examination of these regulations leit your Committee deeply im pressed with the necessity of their being fully and attentively re vised, yet, considering that all the Bills which have been intro duced to the House this Session, have been so upon the faith of these Orders, they considered it advisable to make as little change as possible in the regulations by which they might be affected. Your Committee therefore came unanimously to the determina tion, that, however expedient it may be, in their opinion, to frame other rules for the regulation of Railway Bills which may be cable in any future Session, during the present, and with reference to those now before the Parliament, it was impossible for them to apply any, which might guide the judgment of the 'douse pre vious to their second reading ; and that they were,: thus obliged to confine themselves to suggesting at present the best means, whirl, in their opinion, may be adopted to induce the Members of the Committees upon the Bills to give unremitting attention to them, to exercise an impartial judgment upon their merits, and afford to the House itself th e b es t means of forming its opinion, and decil , ing upon each case. With this view your Committee have framed a series of Reso lutions containing the principal points upon which they think in formation ought to be conveyed to the House, and. they recom mend that each Committee to whieo one or snore Railway Bills be referred, shall be directed to report to the House upon each of these different points, anti. that the House should refuse to pro ceed with any Bill until it has received from the Committee spe cific replies, agreed to by vote, in answer to each of these qugst ous, These Resolutions are as follow That each Committee be called upon to report the propmedi capital of the Company formed for the execution of the project, and the amount of any loans which they may be empowered to raise under the provisions of the Bill; the amount of shares sub scribed for, and the deposits paid thereon, the names and resi dences of the Directors or Provisional Committee, with the amount of shares taken by each ; the number of shareholders who may be considered as having a local interest in the lire, and the amount of capital subscribed for by them, and the number of other parties, and the capital taken by them ; a F l atement o f t h e number cf shareholders subscribing for 2,0(X)!, end upwar d s, w i t h their names and residences, and the amount for which they have subscribed. 2. The sufficiency or insufficienzv for agricultural, commercial, manufacturing- or other purposes., of th e p resen t means o f eon vevanee, and of commarnea o .on between the proposed ternani, stating the present. amount of traffiz by land or water, the average charges made for passengers and goods, and time occupied. 3. The number of ~ itsseno•ers and the weight and description of the goods expeet , Al upon the proposed Railway. 4. The amount of income expeaed to arise from the Con veyance of passengers and goods, and in what proportion stating also generally the deseripticn.of goods from which the largest re venue is anticipated. 5, Whether the proposed Railro'd be a complete and integral hne between the termini specified, or a part of a' more extended Van now in contemplation, and likely to be hereafter submitted to L'arliament, and to what extent the calculations of remuneration depend on such contemplated extrusion of the line. 6. Whether any, antt what, competing lines of Railroad there are existing, and whether any, and what, are in progrcss or con templation, and to state, so far as circumstances will permit, in what respects the proposed line is superior or inferior to the other lines, if there be any. 7. To state what planes on the R a il w ay are proposed - to be` worked, either by assistant engines, sta;ionary or locomotive. with the respective length's and inclinatio - ,s of such planes.• 8. To advert to any peculiar engin eering difilculf:es in the pro posed line, and to report the 'Manner in which it is intended they should be overcome, 9. To state the tenpal, breadth and height, and means of ventilation, of any pr'oposed tunnels, and whether the strata through they are to pass are favourable or otherwise. 10. To state whether, in the lines proposed, the gradients 21 1 A curves are generally favourable or otherwise, and the steepest gradient, exclusive of the inclined planes above referred ti, an d . the smallest radius of a c urve. 11. To state the length of the main line of the proposed line tif the Railroad, and of its branches respectively. Ip. To state generally the fitness, in an engineering point, of view, of the projected line of liatlrcad. 13. If it be intended that the Railroad should pass on a level any turnpike road or highway, to call the particular attet.tron of the 1-louse to that circumstance. 14. To state the amount of the estimates of the cost or other expenses t and o be whether theyappear to b e supporte d b y ev id ences and to be fully adequat e for thea purpose. 15. To state what is the estimated charge of the annual expense; of the Railroad w h en completed, ' and how far the calculations which the charge is estimated, have b een su ffi c i en tly proved. • the calculation s proved in evidence before t h e Committe e h ave satisfactorily established, that the ' revey • ;1W -to ion PARLIAMENTARY SUMMARY. was In the COMMONS' a great many petiti ons re l at i ng In the Loans', last night, nothing of imp or t ance was d one, - Bills were presented. On a division, the Lond on and Gravesend Rail way Bill was lost. (The Herald sagaciou s ly says, it. • to Pallroad proposed the Bill should be carried through the Royal Park,' It was announced previously, by Mr. P. Thomson, that th"e Committee on Railroads might be expected to present their P . . eport t o -d ay . Th e Ch ance ll or of the Exchequer an.nonneea , the intention. of Government to make a more equitable ailpstrnent of the immense revenues of the See of Durham,. and to separate therefroth tl.e civil duties : a Bill founded on the Report of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners would be brought in. After some other business of lesser importance, the seomid reading of the Irish Municipal Reform Bill having been Visored by the Attorney-General for Ireland, in an address charac terized by a high degree of power ;an:, clearness, a discussion of an important description ensued on this great, interesting, and beneficial measure. We have not room here to notice the debate in other than than the most cursory manner, but beg to refer to our Parliamentary report, where will be found unfolded such a mass of municipal corruption as was perhaps scarcely ever before witnessed in the world. It will be seen that the Tories—Peel, Stanley, Sibthorp, Connolly, and other " friends of the people,"—now advocated the destruction of all existing chartered rights, and a wholesale transfer of the entire Corporations to the Crown. The second reading was agreed to without a division. Sir Robert Peel gave no tice that on Monday, on the Order of the Day for go ing into Committee on the Bill, he would move an instruc tion to the Committee to adopt his plait l—thigh may fairly and briefly be described to consist in a reckless and revolutionary de struction of alllthe existing Corporations in Ireland, the powers and functions of which arc to be laid at the feet of the Crown, and of any Conservative Minister who may work his way to office. IRELAND. DISLOYAL DECLARATION, ORANGEISM.—Mr. Maxwell, the Grand Secretary, the Great Grand, and other Grands, have formally despatched letters to the Lodges relative to the dissqlutlon of the Orange Associations. As a significant imlioation of the secret work ings of these loyal and tatlah-calumniated associations, we Publish the resolutiau of the Grand Orange Committee, adopted at a Special Meeting held last Saturday in Dublin, The meeting was held at the Lodge in Graftoa.street, when it was agreed, by advice of their Grand Committee, and ip reference to the address to the Throne, voted by the House of Commons, and to his Majesty's reply, " That the brethren should be warned, against the novel doctrine that the mere wish of the Sqiitspelgn, expressed through his Ministers in answer to, ;ilk Addreis from the House of Commons, has the fi-44,te of law, or can restrain the subject in the legal exer cise of constitutional rights. The Orangemen of Ireland have the most sit - mere vespeot (they say) for the will of the So vercigii ; bMt the liberty of the subjea they respect more, and Wilk waintain ; while the British Constitution remains unsub vertccl they cannot be deprived of their rights, save by tha co operation of the three branches of the Legislature t i P l / 4 Sir Harcourt Lees has also made, in a letter. the Orangee men, a like declaration of loyalty anckc.hedience to the laws, Mr. Sergeaot , Vaituu r d, who has been recom mended W I his I%' ; fraiesty as a proper person to fill the office of liecyr4er for qxford, has written a letter ;a the Mayor declin ing that 4pnour. The 1 .earne4 sergeant states that it would interfere too much, wlth 4is professional duties. TIAE. IRON TRADE.—.At a meeting of iron masters held at Wakefield yesterday, a further advance of . 15 v demand fo r i ron o f every description......cie s . per ton on p i g i ron was decided upon.Tlileesrtrii There is Gazette. ealdvery heavy