The Sun. — London, England, 1818-04-15 00:00:00

the subject, should therefore The SIIIPNELL also sopportetl the Motio'h. Mr ,HAIITllAvic teas aizainst it, on the graiintl 'that the sts!..A. of foreizo wool was itisoffi&lent. SUMNka eould not agree 'vitt, the in ferenc,-s of the Noble Lord, as the proteetlings before the former Committa bait been lon sum mary, and had not given room for dist:fission. lie therefore-hoped -the liouse would 'proceed to ri fill! I xisminalion of the sobjeCt. Aldermen- ATKINS thought, if our wool Were permitted to, he t - xporied, it would have a serious and dangerous c ffe , t on nor foaoulactures. Sir 3 GRAFI AM kirgned against the motion. By referriog to the prices of stool at the time of the Ameticdh wilt-, it ivoold he 10111)(110 be now six or seven times as high, Which ought.; to be satis. fectorv. Mr. F. LEwts thougLt - the Committee ought to be re-appointed, witich before had refused to go into a toll inqoiry. 'Dm question was one of the greatest importance to the country. If there was ellowed a tree and unlimited exportation of corn, it tvasnot - fair to impose a restriction upon wool ' The manotacturers- were bounn to she" that there %.s•• as a necessity for preventing exports - Con ; and be would prone to the Committee that, tall'the . grounds of the Act of 16GO were utterly' futile and untenable; t;,ough - it - had :been the basis of the . extraordinary system that had since . 'tiri..46l 16 check and teller this•exterisiVe trade. The exportat'on of wool and veollen yarn would be a fair object of duty ; and he w as sore it would prot!ure as much as `would enable the ['Ouse to. Abolisti'd)e leather-tat. he• House thew dikided on the motion of Sir W. BURREL— Nods , 88• , 11,1ajority PRINCE REGENT'S MESSAGE; As soon as ihe division was over, , the Utilise became extremely crowded with ,Members. their ingress, Mr. WILBERFORCE rose to ask a question of the Noble Lord opposite. It related to the coo ' sideration of •the Message, but it could not be heard. Lord CASTLEREAGH answered, that it was his Intention now. to. move the Order of Day for the consideratiOn of the Royal Message, .for the purpose of • nOstpaniog - it. The Noble Lord having made his motion, `•Mr. BROUGHAM said, when he took the liberty last night to move, as. an.amendment, the inser tion of a few. very, common words, the observa tions with which - he was met from•many parts of the Flouse, as well as from his Hon. Friend below him, were to- this effect : that though theyi-agyeed with' him in the principle of the measure, and were as •ansions,as -himself , to establish the(prin- Opal Resolution relative to economy, yet they could not agree with the amendment, because it was coutrary, to the uniform practice in sorb eases.- Precedents were cited by those-• Gentl e, men as the ground why they could not agree with Lint, although in substance they went as far as be did. But now • the Lord deviated from all precedent. He had moved, that an .order be postpoiled- fur considering' a Message from the Throne, concerning•which his (Mr: B-44).amend ment had been yesterday. rejected ; and the reason why diet tot ins of -considering-it• Wit hoot delayAvere said to ,he necessary,- . was because the llOnke wet , s; bound to notice it in preference, to all other-business, from due respect -to time Crown. Ott suehoccasions much war sacritieed - to the con venience of debate, and the House were called on to . postpone their opinions. on ,the different sub jects before them rather- than shety,a ,want of re, spent-to a Royal :Vlessage. He did not' say that this was wrong : for he Wished all poisjble respect to be shewn to the Crown. Pint lie, thought the. plain English of the Noble Lord's conduct, and. that,of his associates, was too obvious to let his meaning. remain doubtful one second. The Noble. Lord at, the bead of his. Majssty!s Private Coun, cils•assembles his friends in a private room, for a , purpose for which no practice, or precedent can, be cited. They consist of a selected: body of the : Members of that Hoose, being composed gene rally of 1110,5. t respectable country Gentlemen, whose inclination to support Government, when ever it was possible to support it, was well known. He bad heard that one or twti others, who were. known not to be of- the same. opinion, had•alsO• heen introduced, amongst whom was a Learned Friend of his, as it Ministers thought it necessary. to feel their way, and sound him. But ni - anyi, Gen;lemen of independent principles-mere exclud ed, -for what reason was not known. Here, then,_ was a select meeting of Members of Parliament,: individuals highly respect Able„ and who were flinch to, be feared for thtir independence and to thew was made a disclosure which was refused to the House front the fiat moment. If-this system was to be . continued, it was a,mockery to say any debate could be entertained in that House. The debate might go on, the numbers Might he:count ed anti declared, but it Was elsewhere that the. question o,:as decided. lie bad a right to suspect that Ministers thus had recourse to practising up, on Members. The dehate . was carried on in silence, and in. silence also was their opinion to be ascertained ; and if this mode was to he adopt ed, and t h e House .was expected •to coincide in it, the House world hear no more on a question, except from some übfeirtunate mistake,,such as happened yesterday: Not having yet had any op portunity of entering - his protest against such a system, he availed himself of the present one. It was such a gross, unconstitutional practice, that he could not let it pass. The silence of those Gentle men who bad been selected for the private meeting was taken for their consent to e..hat had been.laid, down ; but no sooner had they come into the House titan they opened their mouths, and declared that it was a proposition so extravagant that they•cotild not countenance it. One after another they made this declaration, and no one Gentleman bad ventured to say that he had agreed with the. proposition of Lord Liverpool. He.l msi l therefore a.right to assume that this attempt bad not been successful; and now, on this account, an other delay was. proposed, not that more pulses mighthe felt,hot that attemptswight be made to get over those lawn whose honesty stood recorded by-, their declaration of last night. Be, would say, that iE the ilonse, granted whtit tire . Noble uga sobeht for, namely, further time, they would esta blish what he dared not propose in Therefore, when the Motion Of the. Noble . Lord had been disposed 0f,.h.e., should more a liesolit (ion so constitutional, and at the same time so respectful and temperate towards, the parties,,ont . of doors, that he.bad no manner of doubt it would meet the approbation of the ... House. . Lord CASTLERBAGE4 strongly animadverted on the observations of the Hon. and -Learned Gen tleman ; but the. confusion' in the:Gallery., from its being extremely crowded, prevented .most of his opening remarks from being ! heard. He ol}- . serVed that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was often in the habit of throwing out ideas,that were, very different from the constitutional practke of the House ; and he. must - therefore allow him to enter his protest against.this new linigii4ge and doctrine, as both - impracticable and. unwise. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman attetnpted,to insi nuate, that this order was postponed for the pur pose of practising OR Gentl e men, as if it were in the powerof Ministers to carry on -such a prac tice, and lo Make converts-of them to giye their votes in favour of Government, as,well' as their langnage. He should have thought -he might.. have had a different feeliog, and. the_ lion. and, Learned Gentleman must allow him to consider his prote.st and language only as a porSuit f of that systerodie -so very often resorts (Hear, hear, hear,l)---of. trying to vilify his Maiesty's Alloisters for the-confidence which they possess; and whiehi they should always - endeavour . to maintain. 10, fact, it would seent.that he wished to.put down, the system that was in existence, and to substi 7 inte something in its stead that he might prefer. would state to-morrow. what . had been the. conduct of Ministers, and thereby satisfy tbe. House. that in every part,of that conduct they had done their duty fairly and honourably to wardS the Crown, wlitle they had ever b een, duly mindful of the real iuterests,of the Country. Mr. Ttfat.s.Ey said, it was clear that there never . was an Administration which took so much pains as the present to vilify and degrade itself in the short space or forty,-eight It was (pile unnecessary to thew that, the present Administra tiodstood in a, mote contemptible sitnation than any other that ever existed, The Noble Lord butt endeavoured to attribute to his. Hon. and Learned Friend an,assertioo that all previous coo, cert was unconstitutional .• But his Learned had never said coy such thing. Now, how did the thing stand with respect to the Monarch, the House, and Ministers ? Yesterday every thing must have been settled with the Prince: Regent, and Ministers must have taken oo themselves what was the fittest proposition to. bring down to the House, This must have been previous to their meeting., Then it must have cone out that the proposition ,would: not be sanctioned_by the House,,on which out went a summons to meet al Liverpool House,' in order that there Might he submitted to a.select few What they had his Royal Highness's commands to submit to that House. But it was aTity,they had clot a sort of gallery at Liver pool noose for Reporter s, as then Gentlemen Might hai'e a chance of knowing what had 'sassed there. As it was,. the Noble. Lord had '.llltUle a speech, but no notice was takenof him or. his speech ; .andO sort of [ullity had broken out among his, own troops.—Afterwards some ofairem had come forward. and said, .1 we will tell rm. fairly, that, something has, passed which we. , cannot agree to." On this, the Noble Lord oppositesaid, '' wait only, twenty-four: hours, and you. shall hear all." He (Mr. Tierney) had waited, twenty four hours, anti he. w,.as now told, he must wait. forty-eight, The .Noble Lord.said, '' wait only till to-morrow, and , I will tell you why I post poned the business ytsterday." But what was desirable to be. known was, what actually did pass at LiVerpopl House, He understood it was this, and he•wished the. House and the Coantry to un derstand it :—lt was proposed that there should bea 'sli nm given to his Royal Highness the Duke. of Clarence, to snake his whole income equal to ,40,0091. a-year, besides about 20,0001, for outfit. To the Duke of Kent, in the contemplation of -his -being married, 12,0001. a-year, in addition to his ;present income, making it 3,0,0001.,a0d 12,0001. for ontfit. That the Duke of Camberland should have, hikincome made up to 30,0001. a-year, being an addition of 12,0001. ; and the Duke of Cam bridge the same. On tite whole, the-NAM bur then upon the country by these additions would,. ;he, 11G,0001. a-year, and this sum must be muck up in the present year. Then what was he to 'believe? In-common candour he must think that. his Royal . Highness the . Prioee .Regent, supposed. it to be right,, and that those . Personages could 'not, maintain themselves in a proper degree of .splendour without such an addition to their in :comes ; therefore Ministers : thought, proper to sohntit tile matter .to, Parliament, ast the most economical proposition that could be made. If so, why want more time? \\Thy not go into the question at once? It seemed as if. the, Noble :ultal wished to say---" Now 1 must desert my Royal Master, and court my friends in the Molise of Commons, by which iue.cns I may chauce,to 'get out.of the scrape." Bust if it turned out that rlte,Royal Personages could do with less than a certain suns, why was it ever proposed tes give them that sum ? Here was degradation upon de gradation.; and yet.the Noble Lord talked 4'14 Honourable and Learned Gentleman on this side ishing for a chan g e of system, in order to sob stitute soniethiog.oi his own. But let the noose look at that Bench, and say if. it. were, possible that horn such a strange and discordant body any, wood system could be- expected to proceed. '[heir ?system was to try one thing, and if, that would !Mot do, to try another. Indeed he must declare ;that he pitied them, though they were not de !serving, of compassion for the way in whiOs they had used their Royal Master. He must stand its 'a most awkward and unjust situation in the eyes of all the Foreign Ministers in, this country ; for Ministeis.can neither tell hirn what is to he done for bhp, nor do they know what to do for them-' selves. On the whole, he was quite satisfied that nothing short of. a total abandonment of the en tire proposition would satisfy the House or the Country. Lord FOLKESTONE observed, that as, time N T ( hie Lord had not condescended -to give any reason fur postponing the 0,11.14 of the Day, it 1 1 4 1 4 t be toot thy of, , the.cnnsideration of the r.it;,n.,se whether, they would 3..lupt aproposition so disrespectful to the Prittee,and themselves. Strangers were then ordered to Withdraw ;hut the motion wrisASt length agreed, to williout i ls. di-. PRIVATELY STEALING ITT SHOPS' BILL. 00 motiota Sic S. ttomILLY tor the third reiding of the l i Tivdtely Stealing in Shops' Bffi, The Ati•ottst.E;Y.TiENEßAG,,in a loiv voice, made some objections, to the preamble , of tile. Bill, as well as to some of-the Ciauses. 1-le : proposed to leave : out the statenient that.the extreme severity of the penalty led to an increase of the. crime, and to insert, that " the said Act not being found effectual, it was deemed nece:;,aryto.repeal it. Sir S. Rots/inn' said, he could not accede to the proposition. The phrase, " expedient'' had merely crept into our Stattnes.through the indo lence in preparing them . in modern times. It was. proved ti t t laws of ext reme severity caused crimes to be committed with impitnity ; and the crime of stealing in shops passed wit hiMptinity, bec.4use persons would not prosecute when 'they, knew the penalty was the forfeiture of life. Ile mentioned a circumstance which lie had read in the :ST6u7s vapers, of a servant who had lobbed Iris master being tried at the late Assizes for Southampton, and though great interest was made the Secretary of State,_ it was . rejected, because it was said to be . declared that•the Judges had conre•tO a. determination that in all cases where servants robbed their masters the crime, when ca pitol, should punished with the full,penalty of the law, and the'man was executed. He did not know o het her the Judges had collie to such a Reso lution ; but whatever was made a capital offence ought to be made so by the Legislature, and not by the:Judges. He must, however, mention the effect which thisitatement',whethet trueor not, produced. In a few days . afterwards, a. person _ was tried at the Ohi Builcy .for robbing his master of con siderable proPery, one, article of which he had pledged at a paWribrO‘er's for five pounds ; .but though the case was clear, the Jury found'him guilty of stealing only to the . value of 395. Could any man, therefore, - not see, that the Jury were aware, if they liad.found hku guilty, the conse quence would have .been to consign. him to' an ignominious death! Such men were . „ therefore, placed in a most Cruel situation ; for io disciiarge their duty faithfully, they must send men to an ignominious punishment, or they m u st, cputrAry, to their oath, decline that they have not .dOne that which in conscience they, are - snre, they have done. Mr. ‘VILBERPOEICE tholltfit eVt:ry . man who, like himself,' had been icing_ in. public life, Must feel that those who 'laboured to make: our laws less bloody Were anxious to 'render an irn9ortant service to their country, ile . was_ of opiuion, an.lion. Friend of his had been On a fl?ruter oc.; casion, that a review of our peuallaws, with a view to make then', less severe, was "desirable; The proper course of proceeding in every country was, to airest. vice, in its tattiest stakes", yet the Off, , tl.ler was within the reach of reforma tion. Aciing on this plinciple, a small punish ment in' . the first instance wouldpreVent the ne cus%ity of II ariug to clpitol pimiShment. lie wiOled this s/ibFct to 'heiboLed at with can dour and feeling, and'he was sure that by no one would it be viewed with More Caudonr and feeling than by his HOn. and I,earaedFriend opposite,. though he. Was conitraiut d to difß:r from him on . this - occasion. The operat r ion of the lot - be cdn 7 sidered to be injurious under the present system; as persons were led to calculate on escaping p . n• nishment from the very severity of the taw, and . were thus encouraged to. commit offences, which, but-,for this impression, they might not have been concerned in. Ile supported the Bill. The motion was then -carried, and the Bill was pased. - Mr. Alderman ATKINS moved that the second reading of the MoCk Auction Bill should be post potted to Thufsday, when it was his intention to propose that the subject ,should be referred to a CoMmittee.up. stairs. , The second reading was ac cordingly Postponed till Thursday. Mr. BuTrattwoitTli presented a Petition from the Cotton Manufacturers in favour of the Cot ton Wm)factor ' ' , Bill. Mr. W.,SMITH took the opportunity of saying, once for all, that he hid - listened . with disgust and. indignation to the invidious and unfounded insi muations which bad been sent forth.against those who favoured the Cotton Manufactories itegttla - - lion Bill. He had made some inquiries on this subject, and was satisfied that the conduct or the friends to the : Bill, which had been brou . g bt in. by an [lon. Baronet, was as pure, and their charac ters as free from all ituputation, as those of it's opponents could be. The Petition was read, and ordered to be. 'printed. On the motion of Mr. DOUGLAS, a Retnrti of thePardons , granted during the last tea years, 'specifying the number on whiCh fees had been paid to the Crown, was ordered to be laid before the House.—Adjourned; NEW PLAN OF FINANCE. The subjoined NEW PLAN Of FINANCE, was read yesterd ly at the Stock Exchange by. isf:lr. ASE, of the Bank, did not react► us yesterday till our Niel. was put to press : ".Treasury Chwubers, April 14,.1818 It is proposed t h at hooks shail be opened at the Bank of England this day,, fir the purpose of receiving the subscriptions of per'sons de.tirouS of transferring any sum in even thousands, not less than 4000 f. 3 per Cent. Consolidmed, or 3 per Cent. Reduced Annuities (such Annuities to be specified at the time of 'subscribing), into a new Stock at the rate, of 36,per cent. the interest on such Stock not to be 'educed, nor the Stock paid off .for 10 years from the stla of 4pril, 18.18. ;very Subscriber, in considciation of his transfqrriog !)O/ 3 per Cent. Consolidated, or 3 per Cent. Deduced Antfuitie, to, the account of the Commissioners for tedncing the ,National Debt, and, of his paying at the :times hereafter metitiOned into tite 444 Jbe.stnu of. in MO' ney, shall befell-titled for-every .100/.,Btock so WO' leered to 100/. 3.lper Cent. Stock, to bear 4 01e# rest either, from the Sat of April,. or tile 1001 °f October, 1818, as hereafter mentioned. -The Subscribers to pay the 'said' sum - of Ili! money by instelinentS at the following periods.' upon th e day o f suh scr ihine r Onoil;efore f6th Oct. l 18 ~1 ober by way,of deposit ' , 7cl; 18111 Note.' ' On or before 19thJette,I818 .1 4th Pecentler 24th 15th Jan. 181 9 7th August.. 1 -sth February • 41t1September . l sth March • msenuot at .tlie rate, of 2 Per cent.per ona nnj o ? computed in. the Usual manner, to be. allowed .Subscribers on. c'ornpleting the payMent of th ii said shut of 1 11, • ($. he St4bscribers, to transfer their stock to 1- '1 Conu9issintters' for the reductionolthe Nad u° Debt at the ftillowingiPeri6dS,-vii:- . -- , 13 percent. from • Tttesdav 28th () April, to Monday; the of MaY, boll) days, first t elusive, holidays excepted ; an d S 5 p er c ent. 0 " - o "'clove Tue§day, the 2d of J - itOe. nooi , Persons- subscribing not l e ss than 5v n !--„,.$ Stock to transfer the same to the Cormnissio! R v e for • tlre Reduction o f t h e N a ti on al D e bt • r't " 'following. periods • , 15 per cent. do Tuesday, t h e 28th, or W e ean e-ft. , day, the 29:1 1 of Ap r il, and 85 per cent.' on or " lure Friday, the 27th 'ist November. fl ed Every person having,- before Tuestlay, the 4 '14 June, completed the transferof the whole of Stock subscribed by bite, shell be ' ent itle:l, "., soon as the measure shall have received the st tion of "Parliament, to the p r i nc ip a l su m of s' in Annuities bearing interest after the ra te s o 31. 10s. per . cent. per annum f o r ever y IclOL transferred ; snch interest to commence from ' ls ', sth day of April, 1818, an d hail, on the cowl ) 0 Lion of his payments of 111. in money on t i r e k lOW. so subscribed, be entitl e d to the tor t d i g principal sum of 121. like . Annuities, the. int er- ,e thereto) commencing at the same time. Every person who, after the - 2d day of Ji ll ' 6, and helot e the 2700 day of November, t itan ft completed the transfer of th e w h o l e o f the St subscribed by him., shall be entitled to time - P' g if cipal sum of 681. in Annuities, at the ra te se 31.bse 10 t ibed ,s. per the ceo interestt. per an th n erennum tor every 1 0 th ; ob ei i commenceftir the 10th day of October, 18.18,. an d s hall, °° ( i i completiou of-his payment Of 111.' in 'tuoneY.'r, each 100/. srs transferred, be entitled to tire • thee principal sum of 121. like Annuities, theitv terest,thereen commencing from the sth ISIS. ' Every person_ 3. pe r cent. Con e sots, shall be epf - itled . interest f"r : r o ts quarter of e) year pit soc h , C onse lq, t o 'he l' a the s:h day . of July, in" case the whole otft',: dab j e f Stock•ihall be transferred on' or before time June - ; and on. the 511' day of Jamie' y 0 f case such transfer shall:be-made after the June, and before the 27th of November ne - st. • The• CotthuissiOners for the Reduction oft_, Natioeal Delft , to purchase '3l per cent. S ( '"" 1 1,4 proportion ofT tut least 1 percent. Stock, h' Capital created, - whenever that Stock she'l l be ti del pr. The new Stock of 3-1 Per cent. to be tray?? , able at par int Ali talc 33per cents.- • lhe Subscripti-ln books :to contitrne'ore n ' lfe i tweet) the beurs of ten in the -mornin a• Ii - 40 in the afternoon ; from this day to SaterdaY l6.e ,"' lot instept, both ieclusiee. Lord Liyerpeol an" l e s Chancellor of the Excheq uer reser ve to I be n i sei : . 4 the power ofkeepitor the S .. hisseriotioo 61-1. the 24th instant inclusive, noon !twice there -01 t t .„ ipg,seot to dip Bank on or before the 17(1' in. Every-Subscriber to have the option of 1 . ""-' ,0e i , Exchequer Bills :to double the am-ouut of - " il , ve rf . subscribed by him, a nd to receive fOr e t- ye( 1001. of Eittlieque,r- Bills subscribed 6 41 ' gee cent. Consolidated, and 641. 3 per ce', it i,rea duced-Anneities; provided such option is by time Subset ilter on the 28th or the 29 0 ' "Z o l• or the : 20 day of May, and every su ch ;ion; scribershall, at. the' time of tLiclaring this n,,,P,,, c ee4 make-a deposit at the Bank in money or P" - t ee quer Bills- of not l ess th an 5 p er cent- c ' f ' ) e , r e' amount of:Exchetoter Bills subscribed, A" " :minder of such-Exeibeepter -shall be hr" . l , l t ee into the Exchequer Bill Offi c e, on or be f ':', ‘ ,etn! Ist -of August, ISIS, when the interest " 1- e t he shall cease and be paid in . money, and is c` iCI fig deposit shall have been made in money, i t returned by. the - Payulastet of EXC,ht:V er t without interest, upon th e is h o l e slow :to t 01, Exclictrice Bills being brought afor.esa lt .- 0 be, T" 3 per cent. Consolidated Annuities, two) crested by this Subscript ioti, to bear inter , •s t ,, 0 0g; the sth of January 18-IS,- but the Divide"''' t o/ to be paid until the sth of January 1819 . ! . :', ( ,, r es 3 per cent. itedeeed • Annuities • to beer front sth April 1818. - In case time stun of ten mill n illios of 0 1 ° nee- ' or wards shall be sebseribed i 1 110 Ex bell ° f o ode Cl. over anti abovet hose which may have - be ets • t ioo by the said Subscriber s , under the ° s P t aforesaid, shall be funded before the i March 1819, at any rate not exceeding 15l• r sal Stock it) the 3 . per- cent. Cousolidate d ° r oaf diced Annuities forev-ery 1001. principal and in case of such funsling,- the said Sou se ,ole . shall have the preferenee of being allOyed a .scribe the same for ten •Imyi, to use r eekooe ' o t i' the date of any ootice.thereof to be 'sen t t Dank, specilyiug the terms on which such chequer Bills ina'y lie funded." , ,lO cato_ FATAL PUG IT.,lqn.—A srv.:re t,nagitt on' ocr , ," at (!in•ltet t9n, tin the bander. of Du 't el ford re; bet weer! 1) • 13 .10 a 'Hue e m e „ oe Jaques, a ‘Vlreeler. 4-l au Tute ' wltil , t the at dinner, at a juiblic-hotoe, anantilhey went oitt to tilt t V 'mg field smile it. After littochiut4 ( uit other Ijvu ,:litt i roc , tid a whwat d lie; ritier, ft , r wore tha ft Iwo tours, tit burlier received. a !Amu tut the side of-tite heads ""d be 11 1i. (i sliukr , literwart l 4. • tic was dead 1% t 3 earriod . the public-liou*e. MILTIi On the 10th inst. the wife . of It. G. Wailer,. E9(l- r the )tice, of 3 soli. DIED. f the Tlitirsdav; .Tames L a w t on, Director o oCitiir Nljesty's LONDON: Printed ivr B. CARS:TAMS, of No. 29, ‘;'. 91""d'51"et, (4;e,en-t: o niflislied ilv SCRIPPS', of No. 7, Soo . th .Nlo!i -,, n- street , at thif ce;'N o -1 tg, Strand Adveitisentent s p Letters, 3,c. (post-paid) mast be ad.l4lrdsscd•