The Sun. — London, England, 1810-03-21 00:00:00

) ing that a Bill of a similar nature had been lest this Se,sion in the other House which had originated there, still lie thought tiieir I.Ordship% would not be indisposed to received another Bill, having the same general t,bjeti in view, but Worded in a different manner ; and instead 'of proposing, as the former 8.11, io p ,, :pe!nate the prohibition, to render it a Bill of Suvension of the Prerogative from time to time. His Right Hdn. Friend opposite (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer), had himself never shewn any_hostility to the measure. On the contrary, he understood him to be friendly to its princiPle ; and therefore he hoped it would not be deemed unpar liamentary, if he now ventured to, recommend to his Right Hon. Friend, as one of the confidential advisers of his M i ajesty, to endeayour to remove the obstacles , to this Bill in another plaee, and to attain, if possible, his, Majesty's consent to its adansdon slid discussion in the other House. , -The Hon. Member concluded by moving . for leave to, bring iri the Bill. The CHACELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. said, lip felt no disposition of hostility to the motion of his Hon. friend, nor any wish to throw obstacles in the way of the Bill. At the same time, he de clared that the principle now avowed by the Hon. Member,' namely, that of making ,the Bill a tem porary- measure, was one the most likely to Obtain lin it success, and therefore it was that he had - re commended this line of proceeding. :Be had always thought it improper to appoint to such aversions while the Committee of Finance continued to sit, anJ•if it should be . deemed right to abolish, upon their recommendation, any offices on the demise of tire present occupiers or possessors, of course no re versions would be assigned, and the Bill, solar as it !elated to such .particular appointments, would be unnecessary. He should not objet to the .tnotion of his Hon. Friend Jot. leaVe'to bring in the Bill, reserving to himself the right of - nioving in the Committee on the Bill an amendment of the title in these words, " fora time to be limited." With re spect, however, to the advice . given him by ,his Hon. Friend, as one of his Majesty's Miaisters, touching the counsel it mlght sbe his duty to give his Ma lesty upOn the subject of this Bill, although he con -sidered it by no means unparliamentary, or impro per for his Hon. Friend to suggest to him that ad vice, yet it would be extremely improper for him to declare in that House what the advice might be which he should feel it his 'duty to offer to_his Majtisty elsewhere. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. The second reading of the Irish Grand Jury Bill was postponed to Tuesday, the 15th of May. - Sir CHARES POLE rose for the purpose of advert,- ieg to an injustice which had taken place in the Naval Serviee. He would not use harsh language on the oecnsione since he was fully convinced that the at of injustice arose merely from ignorance and inadvertency. He Would now state to the I-louse the grounds on which he meant to trouble theme r - Some papers `would be necessary to elucidate' his statement, and for these he proposed to move; the first were letter's that had passed between Admiral Montague and the FirSt Lord of the Admiralty:-- those letters would strew that at the' very moment when the Admiral's son was refused examination, other Officers had passed, one of whom. was iname . diately appointed a Lieutenant: Mr. Montague's actual time of .previous service was out in August, ,when, it Le had passed, be would have been a .Lieutenant in the Mediterranean fleet. For this in jury there was now no remedy, 'tinless his commis- Tsion were antedated. He would next call for a let ter from Lord Collingwcod, strewing, that at that time a commission was vacant f`or Mr. Montague. He o ould not trouble the House with any detai., as' he had heard that a remedy was intended in the present case ; but before be sat down, he . felt that be 'A as n y doing his duty to press upon them the oc, urrence of the same unintended injury to others on di-Aant services; for instance, there must be .many similar situations among 'Officers serving in the East and West Indies: It could not be known there, that the regulations of the new Naval Col lege, though they originated in 1806,, did not fully .ppely tili 1808 ; and to make it impossible to hate any furtbt r doubt upon the sebjed, he would move an Address to his Majesty, that the Ninth Article of the 2d chapter of Naval treerualon, of Dvcem ber, 1806, be transmitted to all Captains on foreign eratrens, and. all Boards, and 'others connected with tire examination of offices; and also that such other parts of the code as were applied to examination should be selected and transmitted. :Yet he felt that the remedy for the peculiar case of which he spoke, would mire so much better from the Ad miralty„that on an es,urance of that remedy's being intended, lie should not press the questiote Mr. Roeuer WARD thanked the Hon. Baronet for . the mildness with which'he brought forty and his, niotioe, but conceived that with reference NI th e pvers which he mentioned, they ought to have been brought forward before the House could adopt Any Ilecite motion but to save any nriseonceprie l e he would narrate the matter in its progress. By an Order of Council so long since as 1773, any Officer, after ser%ing three years at the. Portsmouth Naval Academy, and three years on sea, wa s e n ti t l e d to be examined for a higher rank. By the new code the time at school was nc.t defined by years, but a certain course of educati ,g) was to be fully gene through ; and after that fear years were to be served et sea before an examinatioe could be given.: It happee, d that just a month Oetbre the enactment•of the new order, the old One had passed the Council, in the routine of business. . This was in 1806. - The Lords of the Admiralty did not . give full being to the new Acauerny, so to abrogate the old, 'till 1808: thus the two were in being together,. but t h e l aws o f service in each were still applying tie different classes of peraceee An order was issued to prevent any 'mistakes on this point, and guard ing to those who had served under , the old rules, the it privilege of passing after three years service at Sea., At this time Mr. Montague `presented himself to the examining Captains on the Mediterranean' station; they; conceiving themselves to be acting under the new code, 7oulanOt examine him. On less Ocin four years' service. Admiral Montague applied to Lord Mulgrare, withthe zeal becoming a father; Iti , ,l f ordship laid the case before the 4dmiralty Counsel, and it was pronounced by him inadmissi ble. Lord Mulgrave, feeling' the case one that pre' ssed.on'the requested#4thuiral Mon tague to make his own statentent, ',and submit it to t.4e Counsel, It was bubmitted, and the same judg- tent passed on it as before ; still every efilirt was made to draw up the latent justice of the thing,.and a case was draw n up by himself (Mr. Ward), which was laid before the Attorney and Soliciter-Genetal. The day on wl:ich'the Hen. Bart. gave notice of his • natation, ‘4 as before the.-opinitin was returned from tho.e lawyers; nod lie (Mr. Ward) had taken it upon him only to advise hiS postponing it ; in this he was wrong, fir his. plain course would have-en to let the motion be made, and then state to' the House, that the papers w er e st ill beforeCOutiSel.— •It was but two days‘ago, that the opinion- of Coun sel was given in .favour,of Mr. Montague's claim ; and at that time Lord Mulgrave took occasion to say; that he would have great pleasure in allowing him to be examined with a priority of date, corres ponding to the time at which his examination should have taken place: Some cases had been mentioned of others, to whom no delay had occurred, From the tenor of , the Honourable Baronet's language, he was convinced that there was an idea of imputing the dill - I:l:epee to malice or partiality 3 but , t heypass ed, Merely because the rul e s h a d be en bett e r k no wn at home titan abroad; and if Mr. Montague's claim had been disallowed finally, they should at once have,returned to their original rank. An officer of the name of Jenkinson had passed, and since got a Lieutenancy, but this was merely because at the Navy Office they had not the same scruples as in the Mediterranean. He hoped that now the state ment bad been laid plainly before the House, no misconception could exist upon the stihjeet. Admiral MARKHAM thought that there must be some strange carelessness in the conduCt of the Ad- .rniralry, when one-oificer could be thrown back as Mr. Montague had been, and another, like Mr. Jenkinson, pas3ed on the 3d of December, and made a Lientenapt on the t t th. The conduCt of Lord Mulgrave to Admiral Montague looked point ed, after what had_passed between them, and it had been — niade the topic of much conversation out of doors. When Lord Barham was going out, lie es .tablished Ithe new code. What was then the mean ing of saying that it was not in force till 1808 ? Was it not known, that in this instance, Lord Mulgrae, not a prOfessional man, differed from the whole : Board of Admiralty ? Some reparation to Mr. Montague was nveessary ; but the recourse of antedating his commission was a most danger:- ous precedent. Cases bad- occurred where, this was the proposed remedy; but Sir Philip StephenS, a high authority in such matters, always resisted it. - Mr., R. WARD said, that if the motion were press ed,' he must move the previous question. Mr. CROKER made some observations on -the want of candour in the gallant Admiral's (Mark-, ham's) expressions. It w as no t t o be C onc i ve d that there was any personal .feeling of Lard Mul grave's canneded with the delay of Mr. Montague's promotion. It began and ended with the thre ex, ; arnining Captain s in the Mediterranean. Lord Mul grate' had made every exertion to forward his ob . - ~ le6t, so far as it uas consistent with the advice of Counsel. Mr. WHITBRE A D was rather surprised at the live liness with which_ the Hon. Secretary to the Adini:. salty took up the speech of his Hon. Friend '(ticf miral Markham). He expetted it to have Warmed him into a vigorou4 opposition ; but could trot ex press his pleasure at finding him gradually subsiding Iwo a meek and most complying suavity. In the course 'of his peroration against the Admiral, he (Mr. Croker) had sli,ped out the pleasa..t confes sion, that Captains were nut Lawyers.—"No, Sir," said Mr.-Whitbread, " tha n k H eaven , we ate not so badly off yet; •we hate our Statesmen, our Orators, all' Lawyers; nay, our Admiralty Secre tary must be a Lawyer too ; yet he has his merits ; he will not overlook living merit ; for he manufac tured my old friend, Major Cartwright, into Post Captain, of er he had give.. up his trade forty years. The Secretary does honour to even the dead ; to whom; in the spirit or his posthumous promotions, lie has given a new rank—he, Sir, I say, for the whole weight of the 'Admiralty seems, by his own account, to rest on the shoulders of this bustling personage, who couples himself' with its Members by the monosyllable we, with ridiculous familiarity; and then comes down to tell us, in the dialed with which he has the perpetual art of raising a laugh, that his mighty movements are too deep for parsons who are no,t professional men." Admiral MARKHAM would only recommend it to the Secretary of the Admiralty not io put himself, into too violent a pas:-ion. After 3 iOng conversation between Sir C. Pole, Mr. Ward, Captain Parker, the Attorney-General, and other Members, , the motion was withdrawn, on an understanding that instrottions should be sent, that the allowance of time to those educated in the neW school should be prospeZ.;tive, and not retro spe6tive. IRISH DISTILLERIES. Mr..C. HUTCHINSON observed, that, before his Right Hon. Friend opposite (Mr.. Foster)_ com pleted his Bill . upon the subjee.:l of the Irish Distil leries,, it was natural (if- suppose, that he had con sulted all those,authkirities which might be of use to inform him as to its probable utility an 4 operation. The, Excise Board, in particatr, he would stippose him to have, consulted ; and it was for the Corre spondence which might have taken place .with that Boat d, that he now rose to move; he did not think that his Right lion. Friend could have any serious objeEtion to granting it: there were great interests involved, and accurate information should be al= lowed to those who were to determine on them:--i He then moved for copies of such communications as the Chancellor of the Exchequer might have re-: ceived from the Cournissioners of Excise in Ire land, relative to the proposed alterations in the Dis tillery Bill.. Mr. FOSTER, said, that he was desirous to\ give every possible information upon all matters in which it could, with propriety, be given ; but confidential communications, ._between the dltlerent Officers of Government, could not 6e disclosed without impos ing such restrictions, as must-render such commu nications useless. Besides, supposing that the opi nions'of the Excise Board had been against the Bill, what could the klon. Gentleman make of it, as ap plicable to the question ? Sir jonti NawroaT agreed perfealy with the Rt. Hon. Gentleman opposite, as'to the impropriety of disclosing Confidential communications. He feared that the practical officers were but too, apt to accede to any proposition originating in such a quarter, and theretore he would be very unwilling to lay it down as a principle, that their advice shoidd be produced, in justification or in condemna : lion of, his ads: The opinion of the Board, he ad-; ruitted,' Would not, in any manner, hirect the qnes ., tion, especialiy as it went to an alteration; of system ; i t) whi c h ca se "he could help - considering them the most improper of all persons to communicate Aft,...1--a few - words froM Mr: - FroTCHINSON, motion-INa4 negatived. ‘. Mr. O'HARA presented Petition's from Sligo, and other counties, against the Distillery Bill, which were ordered to be refilled to the Committee. COMMITTEE ON DISTILLERY BILL. The House having resolved itself into a Committee on the Distillery Bill, Mr. FOSTER proposed a clause for taking off, the bounties on large stills. Mr. SHAW moved, as an amendment, " That it should not take place until fhe year 18 I I," and in sisted that the systeM Was altogether injurious. Mr. Hyrc HINSON supported the amendment. Mr. FOSTER contended; .that there was no period when it was so fit to abrogate those bounties as now. The other system had been tried', and,it was only fair to give to the present a fair trial. Attcr a few words from Mr. LESLIE FOSTER, OR the same side, the Resolution was carried. Mr. R. SHAW opposed the clause, and stated, that an instance had come to his knowledge of a distiller, who was in the habit Of paying a revenue of 40001. having been deprived of his license for seven weeks, 4 under the following circumstances:-- A gauger came, at twelve o'clock at night, in a rude and improper manner, and received a blow frent one of the workmen of the distiller ; he himself being, in bed. The principal, on Coming to a know ; ledge of the transaction, wrote to the ColleEtor of Excise, but did not receive any - answer. He after wards'applied to the Commissioners with thd . saine etleEt. Two informations at law were' brought, vice versa, the distiller and gauger ; the first, was acquitted, and the latter abscOnded, arid anont lawry ensued. He therefore . moVed,'“ That the clause. vesting the pewier in the Commissioners of Excise to suspend licenses should be expunged from the Bill." . . Mr. FOSTEE...—" The unpleasant circumstance stated by the Honourable Gentleman who spoke last did arise ,from a fraudulent cause, and from a too anxious assiduity of the Revenue Officer. It was , impossible that th e R evenue laws could be carried into etfeet if the power was taken away from the Commissioners ; it had been acted Upon ever since the reign Of Charles the Second. Mr. DENIS BROWNE perfealy agreed with the amendment of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Shaw:) Mr. WELLESLEY PoLtSaid, it would-15eTrifPOS sible to carry the regulations for the' bolle6tion of the Revenue into effect, unless the Commissioners were invested with these powers, But his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Browne) was under a sery great mistake if he supp-sed_that the Commissioners of the Excise were not under the' controul of tho Lords of the Treasury. The Commissioners held ,their offices during pleasure, and if any case were made out against them, of improper 'conduO, Executive Government would . certainly ioterpose, upon the Occasion.. _With reap.: to..the.case which had .been mentioned; he had never heard of it be fore,. but certainly the person 9ggrieved might have represented his ease to the Lords of the Treasury ; or to the Executive Government, and it would have wet tv jib full attention.. ; He had had many appli cations made to him'since he had filled his present I 'office: `His Bight 'Honourable Friend (Mr. Browne) was acquainted with some of them, and knew that they had undergone alcarefbl investigation. He did . not mean to contend that the Board had 4ed right in every' instance'; there certainly were cases in which ; he did not approve of their conduct. He was of opinion that they Wanted some check to be placed upon them. The system in' Ireland had been very much relaxed,' and . it required .to. be drawn a little tighter. But - at the saute time it must be ob vious that it would be impossible for the business of the Revenue to go on, unles4s they 'were allowed sufficient p'owers, and he could assure the Com mittee, 'that:there was no disposition on the 'part of Governinent to permit tiny abkise of their power. Sir .L NEwrofer was happy to hear the. Hon. Secretary say, that the' string requirtil pulling, thus acknowledging that' it had been relaxed ; which shewed he was convinced that a strong Wncl should be kept over the Commissioners. - He therefore wished that a clause . should inserted,' that no dis tillershould be deprived of his lieense, without the Commissioner, from time to time, stating to the Lords of the Treasury, .t he cause of ,the suspension. The Hon. Baronet then alluded to a general order which had been issued by the Board of Excise, in which, after setting forth that instances had oc curred in which the . Sub-Commissioners- had g i ven judgment o n informations, without hearing any evi dence whatever, and directing that for the future they should not proceed to condemnation without hearing evidence in support of the information. By this Order the Sub-Commissioners were not direct ed to hear evidence on both sides, which lie conceiv ed to be highty improper. • Mr. FOSTER said, that. the Hon. Baronet must be aivare that previous to the Order in question, the Sub- Commissioners ft equently prGceeded to condemna= tion without any evidence at all. It certainly was true that the situations of these Sub-Commissioners were liable to observation, as they were sometimes in the Characters of Informers and sometimes of Judges. . Mf. DENIS BROWNE was of opinion, that it was necessary to controul the Excise 136ard. Mr. C RoKER explained t he objed of this order. of the Commissioners of -Excise. He said,' the prac tice which this order was meant.to correct was highly reprehensible. He said it frequently hap. pened, that, by corrupt ineaus,.claithants were' nut informed ~when their cases came on to be heard, and it bad been the law .and instructions to -Sub- Commissioners i when the Defenlimt did not come tot ward and plead, tO suppose hiin guilty, and give judgment against him; but the Commissioners of the Beard of Excise, by the order which appeared so offensive to the Htin. .Baronet, requirtd them to late evidence, even if the Defendant did not appear. Sir JOHN NEWPORT disapproved highly of the pfalice, acid said it was in direct opposition to, cle.iy principle of the Constitution. ' M 1.1 r, W.L:I:.iLEY Po i said, that as it had been represented that an amendment such as that pre , posed was much wished for by the distillers in Ireland, he should certainly not oppose it; at th 4 same time he contended, that the Lords of the' Treasury had full controul over the Revenui Boards. • I, Aft& some further conversation, Mr. Sbaw'gk ! Amendment was I.yitlidrawn, and_one_of Mr.- Fos ter's adopted in its stead, -by-which,no regular-dts' tiller is to be deprived of his license without thd approbation of the Lords of the Treasury. A .clause was introduced,-, directing the Corn' missioners of Excise to repay to any Distiller who. from the sth day of March last, should have paid f}, duty of more than es. 6d. per gallots, the amount 0 1 the surplus dtiiy so paid by them. Mr. O'HARA proposed the abolition of the system of fines on land, on account of illegal stills. Mr. FOSTER agreed that this should be suspended for two) ears. After some discussion, in which the, conciliating conduct of Mr. Foster in the present business re' ceived every merited, compliment, the proposition was postponed till the bringing up of the R e ports when Mr. Foster 'undertook to bring, in a clause 0 3 this stilijebt. Colonel HUTCIUNSON wished to know hary watoh was to be kept on - those -, numerous small stills ? Mr. Fosisa stated, that he proposed doing 6 0 by the present Officer., sod by ;8O others, novi employed at high salaries in the 'collodion of tile . Assessed Taxes. The House the❑ resumed, and the Report we ordered to be received to-morrow. . The Report of the Comdrittee of Supply, and of the Committee on the Exchequer '&115 Furditl 'Bill were brought up and Agreed to,--Adjourned. MAILS. ARRIVED-2 Dublin, t Waterford. DUE -3 Gottenbure , Lisbon; 3 Waterford. PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT TWILVIt o'oLocit. Consuls - - -63 it 1' ii L S UN. SOLSM QUIS DICIRI FALSUM AUDEAT ? LONDON. IVEDN'ESWA7, MARCH 21, 1810. Although the official account or General O'Dotr• NEL, respecting the late battle in Catalonia, has not yet been received, yet the letters received from Spain fully justify us in the opinion we expressed respect ing the result of that battle. The battle, or r ather the continued series of attacks made by the Spa' niards, lasted nearly two days, and though they at length retreated, it was not in confusion, not until they had killed several thousands of their enemies- The last accounts from Par,tußal,-are of the date of the inst.; at that time no movement of Un portance kid taken place;• the sritish and Portu' guese armies remained in their former situations. No apprehensions were entertained of the atlvavc. s of the French. On Mo467:and yesterdy mornings, his i{ JESTY rode on horseback in Windsor Park, accorag i p inject hy 'P;incess AUGU STA , L a d y T HYNNE, Ear 4 WESTMORLAND, Count MUNSTER, Generals CAR/ 4 WRIGHTAnd VITZROY, and Col. TAYI 4 Oa, Yesterday a Cabinet Council was held at the f reign Office, which was attended by all the Cabinet -Ministers. Yesterday Lieut.-Colonel PATTERSON of the Guards, JAMES BROUGHAM, and EDWARD WAS 4:, field, Esqrs. were elected Henourary Members v 7 the Board of Agriculture, Yesterday Sir DAVID DUNDAS held a public dal at his office in the Horse Guards, and gave audience s to several Military Officers. From Peterburgh letters have arrived to the doff of .the 3d instant. Nothing of war is 'mentioned in these communication,, and trade was proceeding 14 if there was no expeelation of it. The exchange a t Petersburg!) had improved, and was at )7i. TalIS had advanced 30 per cent. beyond the price of WC year, and obtained Bts rubles. Contiacis were 0- 1- tered into in various . ot her articles of Russian prodt3ce to a great extent, and at high prices, in the coati' dence that the trade with thiS country would be open during the enduing summer. It instated in some of the most recent letters fro°, Bombay, that the King of Per s i a , not sat isfied wit" sliewing prefe.rence for British alliance, by sentl ing an Ambassador to our gracious Sovereign, ha s solicited the'Government of Bombay to send hint a. sufficient number of Officers to instruct a corps ° I . )5,000 men' in British manceuvres and discipline. Memorials having been presented from the Guards , and other, regiments of the line, as well as the ant' litia, in consequence of a late regulation respecting epaulettes, it is understood the said order will not be enlbrced, and some method will be adopted to dis tinguish regimental rank on the strap of the epat'. kite. Officers will be allowed to wear out their epaulettes in present . use. In point ofcecononly, the new plan would not have been any saving to subal tern officers. • Colonel DONEIN, who lately, so much to the re gret of the brigade which he commanded in Spain, quitted that service fora higher command, his trans mitted to a deserving young officer, Lieutenanr ST WART, Acting Adjutant Ist Battalion, WO Regiment, son . of Mr. STEW A R T M ILTON , O f Ita . . noc, Perthshire, a. testimonial in writi ng , i n w hich. be repeats the thanks ()tiered by him to Lieutenant STEWART, in front of his battalions, after the battle Of Talavera, for his ver i y gallant conduct during that memorable conflict, and for the manner in which he discharged the duty of Adjutant on 11 13 C day. The York Rangers, who distinguished themselves so much in !he captere of Guadaloupe, are a neo" corps, for which a number of recruits were raised jo LeWes. ,Mnjor kIiMpERSOIi ' was the officer conr manding the York Rangers. • 1 ~H; f~~ ~bf 41ff Tt ci, du Zr l L A, ~'~h~ til~ ~ F K., . 4 'il , t