The Sun. — London, England, 1838-02-09 00:00:00

LAW INTELLIGENCE COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH, FEB. 8. WILSON V. EDGAR AND OTHERS. (Continued from our First Edition of yesterday.) In this case, after witnesses had been examined for the de fendants, Lord DENMAN summed up, the Jury retired, and returned in about an hour, finding for the defendants on the lirst count, and for the plaintiffs on the other counts. IPSWICH ELECTION COMMITTEE (YESTERDAY.) (Continued from our First Edition of yesterday.) Mr. THESSIGER was heard in support of ?Jr. Gibbon's vote. he Committee found the vote bad. The next vote objected to by the Liberals was that of Mr. Prentice. They failed, however, in striking it off; and they not being able to proceed any further at that time, The Tories succeeded in striking off the vote of Mr. Gosling in favour of Mr. Tufnell, which restored Mr. Kelly's majority of one. The Committee then adjourned. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT, HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEB. 8. The Ballot for the Longford Election Committee having taken place this afternoon, the (Taller) , was not opened until twenty minutes past Fou r o'Clock.' CANTERBURY ELECTION PETITION. The SPEAKER stated that the Canterbury Election Petition had been withdrawn. OGLEY HAY (STAFFORD) INCLOSURE. The Oxley Hay (Stafford) Inclosure Bill was read a third time and passed. NEGRO SLAVERY. Major AGLIONBY presented a petition against the system of Negro Apprenticeship in the Colonies. STAGE COACH DUTIES, Sir G. STRICKLAND presented a petitiOn from Stage Coach Proprietors in Leeds, and other parts of Yorkshire, complaining of the heavy duties to which they were sub jected. FRENCH COMPENSATION CLAIMS. Mr. MACKINNON gave notice that, on Thursday, the 22d of this month, he would move for a Committee to inquire into the claims of Talbot and Company on the French Compensation Fund. NEGRO APPRENTICESHIP. Mr. GILLON presented a petition from Kilmarnock against the system of Negro Apprenticeship, and praying for the total emancipation of the Negro Apprentices. Colonel SEYMOUR presented a similar petition, but from whence we did not hear. THE GREAT NORTHERN ROAD. Mr. GILLON presented a petition from Stage Coach Proprietors, Innkeepers, and others, on the Great Road between London and Edinburgh, complaining of the enor mous and unequal burthens to which they are subject, and expressing the satisfaction of the petitioners with the Report of the Committee of last year. BARON DE BODE. Mr. E. L. BULWER presented a petition from a Gmtleman named John Piiilip Bevan, relative to the claims of Baron de Bode. Mr. WARBURTON said that it wai not his intention to bring the subject of Baron de Bode's claims under the ennsider:.tion of the Howe to-night. THE BALLOT. Mr. HUME presented :;;;Ton which WIS agreed to at a public meeting bell in the town of Dundee, and igned by about 5,000 persons, expressing their deep regret at the declaration made by the Noble Lord the Member for Stroud, at the commencement of the Session, against the concession of any further reforms, and stating that that declaration, and the conduct of her Majesty's Ministers -towards Canada, had lost them the confidence of the country.—(Hear, bear, from the Opposition benches.) This petition was entitled to the attention of the House, as the meeting at which it was agreed to represented the feelings and opinions of fifty-thousand inhabitants of the town of Dundee. Th e petitioners prayed for Universal Suffrage, the protection of the Ballet, and the shortening of Parliaments ; but, above all, for a more equitable dis tribution of the number of electors to return Members. The HON. MEMBER then presented a petition from the Dissenting con;regation of Standwich, in Yorkshire, stating that the petitioners had bui!t a place of worship, and praying that they might be allowed a drawback on the materials used in its erection. The SPEAKER feared that the petition could not be received, as it was an application fir money, although in ,directly ; and begged the Hon. Member to state what its prayer was. _ Mr. BANES—The petitioners prayed that in future no charge should be made in the way of duties on the ma terials used in the construction of houses of worship ; and that an allowance might be made upon the materials already used by them.—(Laughter.) The SPEAKER thought the Hon. Member had better withdraw the petition. Mr. RAIN ES—As the Chancellor of the Exchequer is in the House, perhaps he would be kind enough to give his sanction to the petition.—(Renewed laughter.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not undertake to give the sanction of the Crown to such a petition. The subject had been discussed at the Treasury, and it had been decided that they could not grant the re lief prayed for, as it would open the door to fraud. The petition was then withdrawn. Colonel CONOLLY gave notice that on Thursday, the 25th instant, he should move for leave to bring in a Bill for the protection of the Salmon Fisheries in Ireland. Col. ANSON presented a petition from Staffordshire against the negro apprenticeship system. Mr. P. SCROPE presented a petition against the beer licensing system. CHURCH RATES. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE, seeing hisßight Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his place, wished to put a question to him upon a subject that engaged much of the attention of Parliament during the last Session, and upon which the country was most anxious to know what course it was the intention of Government to pur sue. The question was with respect to Church -rates, and upon that he wished to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Ministers to proceed at once by Bill for the abolition of Church-rates ; or whether it was their intention to revive that most desirable inquiry_ which was adopted l as t S ess i on into the m anner i n which Church leases were granted. That inquiry was agreed to by the last Parliament ; but terminated in consequence of the unfortunate demise of the Crown. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that in an earlier period of the present Session a similar question had been asked of his Noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department ; and he had in answer to the question of the Honourable Gentleman only to repeat what the Noble Lord the Secretary of State had stated—that it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to move the revival of the Com mittee to take into full consideration the whole question, in order that upon their recommendation such measures might be adopted as would meet the exigencies of this most im portant subject. Mr. GOULBURN asked the Chancellor of the Ex chequer at what period of the evening, to-morrow, he in tended to move the House should go into a Committee of Supply. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Irish Poor-law Bill was the first subject fixed for discussion to-morrow, but he hoped to be able to move that the House should go into Committee of Supply at an early period of the evening, as the votes would be merely formal in re gard'. to Exchequer Bills and Transfer in Aids Bills. LONGFORD ELECTION COMMITTEE. The Clerk of the Election Committees appeared at the Bar, and handed in the Reduced List of the Members se lected to serve on this Committee. The following are the names of the Members : Liberals—E. S. Cayley, Alexander Ellice, Sir J. Colqu houn, W. Williams, J. H. Seale, Sir Robert Ferguson, Alexander Speirs, Henry Marsland-8. Conservatives— Edw. B. Farnham, Thomas Chaplin, 'l'. W. C. Master-3. TRADE WITH FRANCE. Lord ELIOT, seeing the Right Hon. the Vice-Presi dent of the Board of Trade in his place, wished to ask whether the attention of the Government had been brought to the fact that the French Government had made a con siderable increase in the duties on linen cloth, the produce of this country, and whether such was the result of the policy of this Government ? Mr. LABOUCHERE, in the absence of his Right Hon. Friend, the President of the Board of Trade, could only say, that it was undoubtedly true, that there was every appearance that the French Government meant to increase the duties alluded to by the Noble Lord ; and, notvitl.standing the reclamations made by her Majesty's Government, he believed that there was no disposition on the part of the French Government to accede to their representations. Mr. HUME wished to know whether there was any in tention on the part of the Government to lower the duties ion French brandy ? It seemed inconsistent that this (country should complain that France put on a duty of 100 'per cent. upon British produce, whilst we put on a duty of KA° or 700 per cent. on French brandy. 'flic CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought 'it ly ical to argue, that we should reduce the duty 1:110 4 10_ ' roduee, because France had increased the c.. 4186 TY: , 'VON. and he could only say, that it was not his 4, :tabs . \, 11 tfr le se any suc h a lt e ration.—(Hear.) 341 - .4,90A1i ' asked whether any inquiry had been ~ • rn.i tie ill** e allegations of a petition from Stirling. , .., c o ! nplaizting/ON e over-rigorous conduct of a collector of "c l tax es in the:fix vise of his duty? 2 t.."; , l e _.. CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was un- ' ' i ~ ih. derstood to say that inquiries had been made, and that the complaints were not well grounded. in Ireland, with education, and the antiquities of the country. No doubt this statement was correct as far as an individual could obtain it without an inquisitorial power, such as might be granted him by this House or by the Crown. Mr. Dalton did not exaggerate when he calculated the amount of the charities not under the controul of the Board at 2,200,0001., and the fact of there being only charities to the amount of 280,0001., showed the great in efficiency and uselessness of the Board. The total amount of the charities, both under the controul and independent of this Board was 2,480,000/. ; which, with Parliamentary grants amounting to 44,0001. annually—Grand Jury grants, 60,000/.—Private Subscriptions, 32,000/. —Charity Ser mons, 12,0001., would, calculating the interest of the whole at four per cent., give the sum of 267,600/. annually, which at this moment ought to be under the control of the Board. He wished to know whether this state of things was to re main in Ireland ? He wished to know whether the chari ties of that country were to be left entirely under the eon trol of a Board which nominally controlled them, but in reality did not ? There was a precedent for the motion which he was now about to submit to the House, in" the CHARITABLE BEQUESTS (IRELAND). Mr. W. BARRON said, he rose to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice, to place the chari table bequests of Ireland under a better system of ma nagement than the Board which now managed them, and which, from the number ofits members, the variety of their engagements and their irresponsibility, was quite incompe tent to discharge its important duties properly. What would be thought, if all the Judges of England were ap pointed to manage the charitable bequests of Great Bri tain ? Was it not as absurd to expect the Judges of Ireland to discharge a similar duty in that country ? The fact was, that the Judges of Ireland have not and could not have at tended to this duty. And as to the Ecclesiastical Dignitaries who were upon the Board, they were equally incapacitated by their other duties from giving the proper attention to the business of those charities. The Archbishop of Dublin and the Bishop of Kildare were frequently obliged to come to this country to discharge their Parliamentary duties, and were necessarily absent from Ireland the greater part of the year ; one of the Pre lates was unhappily now in a very bad state of health. He had, on that part of the question, he thought, made out a case. He had shown that it was impossible for the par ties, from the nature of the circumstances in which they were placed, to exercise any adequate power or control over those charities. The consequence was that the charities of Ireland were much neglected. He had another objection, to the Board as at present constituted, and that was one of a religious character. The entire of the Board, as at present constituted by the Act of Parliament, consisted of Protestants. The consequence of this was, that every single Catholic charity in Ireland, that is to say, nineteen out of twenty of the whole, were actually concealed from the knowledge of the Board, and were, therefore, under no controul. The Board being of an exclusive character, the Catholics of Ireland, whether right or wrnng,he would not now stop to inquire, entertained no confidence in the Constitution of it, and they of course wherever they could concealed their charities from the knowledge, and consequently from the control of the Board. To so great an extent was this feeling car ried, that they were in the habit of handing over during their lifetime large sums of money to be distributed by individuals, instead of giving them to charities, or placing them in the hands of Trustees. An instance of this had occurred in his own family. In the year 1809, a relative of his, for the reasons before alluded to, handed over the sum of 10,0001. to four or five individuals, with verbal in structions merely as to its distribution. It was impos sible to know at this distance of time whether the sums of money so handed over bad been properly applied. He attributed no impropriety to the parties en trusted with its distribution, but he thought that the poor had a right to complain that they did not know whether it had been applied according to the intentions of the donors. Now this in itself was a very great grievance. It was a grievance inherent in the construction of the Board itself, and not to the individual characters or feelings of the men who formed it. Another objection which he had to the Board was, that it was not responsible to the public, and was under no sort of controul whatever. His next objection to it was, that under the Act of Parlia ment by which it was constituted, the Board had no ade quate power of inquiring into the Charities of Ireland, which, from its name, and the intentions of the Legisla ture who framed that Act, it certainly ought to have. The Board considered that under the Act of Parliamsnt passed in 1800, immediately previous to the Union, they had no power to inquire, and that the only power they had was to apply to a Court of Equity through their solicitors. The consequence was, that not having this power, and being obliged in all cases to apply to a Court of Equity, enor mous expenses were frequently incurred in the en deavours to get at charities that were found to he bequeathed by different individuals in Ireland. Bills were filed in Chancery and enormous expenses incurred. Great dehss were consequent upon them, and it followed, as a matter of course, that, in the case of smaller charities, the whole of the funds were actually swallowed up in en deavouring to get at the charity, and that which was in tended for the benefit of the poor passed into the pockets of the rich. This was an enormous evil, and one which he hoped the House would assist in putting an end to, par ticularly when the subject of Poor-laws for the relief of the destitute in Ireland had enjoyed so much of the attention of her Majesty's Government. He did not wish his state ment to rest merely on his own authority, and therefore would refer to the third Report of the Commissioners of In quiry, page 31, which strongly supported the proposition which he had laid down. [The Hon. Member proceeded to read the extract referred to. It commenced by stating that their attention had been directed to the constitution of the Board of Charitable Bequests, consisting of the Arch bishop of Dublin and several other persons. They conceived that a Board so numerous could not be efficientforbusiness, nor was a Board of so exclusive a character calculated to give perfect satisfaction in the administration of the funds created by the charity of persons of all religious persua• sions. They therefore recommended that the powers of the Board should be transferred to the Poor-law Cdmmis sioners. with such power as had been given to the Commissioners for inquiry into charities in England.] He hoped to be able to show to the satisfaction of the House, that it was impossible to investigate the matter properly, or to remedy the evils which existed under the present system.—(Hear.) He only stated it now for the purpose of showing the opinion of these per sons, and here he might state that the first name signed to this report was that of the Archbishop of Dublin, him self a member of the Board of Charitable Bequests. It was a strong confirmation of his (Mr. Barron's) statement, that the Archbishop of Dublin, a gentleman residing on the spot, and who, from having given the subject the greatest consideration, best knew its working, should have been the very first to place his name at the bottom of this report. If any doubt existed on the mind of any Hon. Member English Commission instituted several years back, which was now nearly closing its labours. He did not mean to follow that Commission in all its details. He did not mean to say that in its original constitution it was or was not effective or useful, or a creditable appointment for the country ; o r the Government of the day. But he proposed that if a Commission should issue, that it should be limited, not only as to the time of reporting to the House, but as to its expenses—thereby giving to the House and the country some hope that it would not be protracted to an indefi nite period, with Commissioners at large salaries. It this should be done, and honestly done, they would have speedy justice, and a proper management of the charities in Ireland. If the expenses and the time were not limited, he would not lend himself to the matter in any shape. He hoped her Majesty's Govern ment would take the subject into consideration—that they would consider its importance, and enter upon an investi gation of the charities of Ireland. The Hon. Member concluded by moving that a humble address be presented to her Majesty, praying that she would be graciously pleased to appoint a Commission to enquire into the constitution of the Board of Charitable Bequests in Ireland, and into the present charitable funds and property in that portion of the United Kingdom. Mr. O'BRIEN, in seconding the motion, expressed his belief that the Hon. Member who had brought the subject under the consideration of the House had not overstated the case in any respect whatever. He was fully convinced that the present Board of Charitable Bequests was ineffective and inadequate to the purposes for which it had been constituted. lie believed also, that the character of the Board was con sidered by the Roman Catholics of Ireland of so exclusive a nature, that it did not possess their confidence in any respect. The Hon. Member for Waterford had not over stated the amount of expences incurred by the Board as at present constituted, in the recovery of charitable bequests. He could also hear testimony to the accuracy of the Hon. Gentleman's estimate of the amount misappropriated and misapplied, which could not fa much short of 250,000/. per annum. With respect to the placing of these Charitable Bequests under the control of the Poor Law Commissioners, that was a question which need not now be entertained ; but so far as regarded the third branch or charities, those intended for the relief of the poor, in his opinion tt.eae might well be given up to the Poor Law Commissioners. It was necessary, that adequate information should be obtained before the House could properly deal with the subject. Col. SIBTH ORP believed that the outcry against the Board of Charitable Bequests had been raised by some of those hungry gentlemen (he meant nothing offensive) who were disappointed of obtaining situations under that Board. —(A laugh.) He would be glad to know what the in tention of her Majesty's Government was, as by that he should be guided ; but he _believed that these Commis sioners hail done more harm than good in most cases. If the Government acceded to the proposition of the Hon. Member for Waterford, he (Col. Sibthorp) would feel it his duty to take the sense of the House upon the subject. Mr. WYSE defended the appointment of Commis sioners, because he thought they were more competent to inquire into these matters than Committees. He considered it to be necessary to make a proper inquiry into these funds. The Board of Charitable Bequests was merely a Board for receiving applications made to them ; but he contended there ought to be a Board maintaining a constant and vigilant observation from year to year over the administration of these charities. Members of his (Mr. Wyse's) own family in Waterford had left a consi derable portion of property, for the purpose of establishing alms-houses for poor men and women ; but those bequests had never been carried into effect. The misapplication of funds of this description had the very worst moral influence in the country ; it dulled the energy of be nevolence, and prevented the application of funds to useful purposes, because a conviction lurked in the minds of men that if they made charitable bequests, there was no gua rantee that those bequests would be obserred. The mis application of these funds had made religion a matter of monopoly. Lord MORPETH admitted that the Hon. Member for Waterford had made out a very strong case—(Hear, hear) —that he had shown there was a very large amount of property, and that the present Board of Charitable Be quests was inadequate to the purposes for which it had been constituted, because composed of persons who had very heavy official duties to perform, and who could not, there fore, give the necessary attention to the subject. The Hon. Member had also shown that the members of that Board were exclusively of one religion, and that a great propor tion of the Catholic inhabitants must naturally feel jealous of such an exclusive Board.—(Hear.) The Hon. Mem ber had also proved that a large portion of the charities were frittered away in law expenses ; and he was sure the House would agree with him, that if there was any money which ought not to be squandered away, it was the patrimony of the poor. He certainly did expect that the Hon. Member would make out a strong ease, and the Government would have been anxious to take up the mat ter, if there had not been so many subjects before them of a more immediate and pressing nature. He (Lord Mor peth) was very willing that such an inquiry should be made ; and whatever might be the nature of the Board to which the management of the charities ought to be entrusted, it was admitted on all hands that an inquiry in the first instance was expedient. He did not think the motion of the Hononourable Member had been put in the best shape, because it gave no limita tion to the time or expense of the Commission which the Honourable Member was so anxious to provide for. It would be more satisfactory if the subject should be brought before the House in the shape of a Bill, where the limitation of time and expense might be effectually provided for, and the expenditure of public money, about which the Honourable and Gallant Member for Lincoln so justly complained, would be prevented. It was but fair to the Commission which was to extend its enquiries over a great part of Ireland to compel the exa mination of witnesses upon oath. He would, therefore, suggest to the Honourable Member to withdraw his pro position for the present evening, and bring it in the form of a Bill as had been done in the Poor-law enquiry. The country was much indebted to the Hon. Member for the pains and research he had bestowed upon the subject.— ( Hear.) He (Lord Morpeth) would be happy to co operate with him on the subject. Sir F. SHAW would suggest that the Government should take the subject into its own hands. That would be a much more satisfactory course ; but as the Hon. Mem ber did not mean to press his motion to a division that night, he (Sir F. Shaw) would not make any further ob servations on the subject. in that House, that an alteration was necessary in the constitution of that Board, the evidence of the Archbishop of Dublin would be sufficient to remove it, as well as the evidence of the other gentlemen whose names were appended to the report. He should now refer to another, and one which was a high authority in that House, to show that the Board of Charitable Bequests in Ireland was not competent to the duties which were under its administration and controul. When Lord Stanley formed one of the Irish Government, he had made a communication to that Board, request ing them to consider some measure for the alteration of the Board so as to render it more effective, and that communi cation was followed up by a similar one from Mr. Little ton, now Lord Hatherton. The answer of the Board was, that so far from showing any disposition to op pose the views of Lord Stanley and Mr. Littleton, they coincided and agreed in it, and were willing to submit to any alteration which the Government might think advisable, for the better management of the charities in Ireland. He might rest satisfied with the facts he had stated, but that he knew from various private sources that it was not an effective working body. He (Mr. Barron) had moved for a return on the subject last Session, and if ever there was a proof of the inefficiency of the Board, it was of the slovenly and irregular manner in which that return had been made, some portions of which had not yet been presented to the House. There was in Ireland an immense fund of charitable be quests, which had been handed down from their an cestors, and the records of the Courts of Ireland would shew the vast sums appropriated for that purpose, which were now perverted to improper uses. In the city which he had the honour to represent, a sum of 20,000/. had been left by a Mr. Fanning twenty-five years ago to the poor of the city of Waterford, and what would the House say when they heard that for twenty-five years the poor of Waterford had not touched one shilling of that money ?—(Cries of " Hear.") There could not be stronger evidence of gross negligence and mismanagement. In the county of Westmeath there was a charity called the Wilson's Hospital Charity, which possessed a property of 5,0001. per annum, which was carefully concealed from the people of that county, for whom it was intended. If the Commission were granted, great abuses would be discovered in the management of the charitable property in Ireland. The fact was, there was no proper con troul at this moment over this property. The Board which had the nominal management of it was not, as at present constituted, competent to discharge its duties. Was it intended to place these bequests under the control of the Poor Law Commissioners, which were to be ap pointed under the Poor Law Bill to be brought in for Ireland ? Was it proper to place religious and educational bequests under the management of such an authority ? It might be supposed these Charities were of no very great amount, and that it would not be worth while for tire House to make any enquiry into matters of such little import ance ; but he could tell the House there was p ima facie evi dence of an enormous sum of money in Ireland applicable to charitable purposes which, if properly applied, would nearly educate the people of that country, and would go a very great way indeed towards diminishing the Poor-law expenses likely to arise from the new Act. There was at the pre sent moment, under the control of the Board of Cha ritable Bequests in Ireland, in the public funds, 130,000/. ; in Chancery and other Courts of liti- POSTAGE. gation about 100,000/. ; and there were a great Mr. WALLACE then rose to call the attention of the number of houses in different cities, and different House to a petition from the Chamber of Commerce, parts of Ireland, left for similar purposes, valued Edinburgh, in regardtothe reduction of the rates of postage, by competent authorities, amounting to about 50,000/., praying that no experiment on Mr. Rowland Hill's plan making a total of 280,000/. Mr. Dalton, a man of great might be entertained, unless based on its main principles. antiquarian research, a gentleman in whom he could place M the utmo-t confidence, becaus e h e cou ld have no ob'ect in uch alarm habeen occasioned throughout the count by I deceiving him, had estimated the va r i ous g if ts i n Irel l the notice given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer of his being about to make an ex p er i men t of his own in cootradi,- and a t tinction to that course that recomm e nd e d by t h e Post-office Commission -110,150/. per annum. This Gentleman (M r . D a l ton ) was e a man of most laborious character, who h a d d e di cate d a h en g the . se of last session it was distinct!}' stated that the r ' recommendations of the Commissioners with regard to the life to the investigation of matters connected with charities Twopenny and Threepenny Postage being reduced to oi.e The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob served that the inquiries he had instituted some years ago into the charities of Ireland had utterly failed. It was im portant first, that they should have a statement of facts, and secondly, that there should be some alteration of the present system. He concurred with his Noble Friend (Lord Morpeth) that an inquiry upon oath would be the most -efficient. There had been an inquiry into the English charities, and he was of opinion that the present one should be analogous. Colonel CONOLLY begged to correct a mis-statement made by the Hon. Member for Waterford relative to the funds of the Wilson's Hospital Charity, which, instead of bein g kept concealed from the people, were admini s t ere d with the greatest impartiality and fairness. He felt it his duty to disabuse the House relative to that mis-statement. Mr. M. CHAPMAN had been informed by the Roman Catholic Bishop of the Diocese of Meath, that no less a sum than 5,0001. had been left with him for the purposes of charity, and if the Board had properly discharged its duty that would not have been the case. After a few words from Mr. ROCHE and Mr. V. STUART, Mr. BARRON shortly replied, and consented to with draw the motion. The Hon. Gentleman and Mr. Grattan bore witness to the excellent character of the Secretary to the Board. BARON DE BODE. Mr. WARBURTON gave notice that he would bring, forward the claims of the Baron de Bode this day fort night. THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 1838. penny, and the collection being made in advance by the use of stamp covers should have a fair trial. When the Chancellor of the Exchequer was asked in December last what he meant to do upon the subject, he replied that he intended, instead of following the recommendation of the commissioners, to bring in a Bill to authorise the use of twopenny stamp covers, within the twopenny district. If the Right Honourable Gentleman had offered a premium for a plan by which to overthrow the recommendation of the Commissioners, a bet ter mode could not have been devised. The Chamber of Commerce in Edinburgh, • considering the great ad vantage that would accrue to the country from the adoption of a uniform system of charging postage, and of making a large reduction of the rates, had taken alarm at this proposal, and by their petition strongly urged upon the House that some means should be taken to prevent the Right Honourable Gentleman from following up his intention. On this occasion he (Mr. Wallace) would confine himself to this plain and simple question, whether anything could be more perfectly absurd and untenable than that of pretend ing to carry out a suggestion for permitting the use of a stamp cover, at a penny rate, by means of a twopenny stamp cover ? He could not for a moment suppose that the Right Honourable Gentleman would persevere in adopting so strange a proposition. The idea of the public being willing to take the additional trouble of purchasing a stamp, when they could send their letters at the same rate without a stamp, seemed to him so exceedingly preposterous that he would not argue the matter further. The Honourable Gentleman was about to give notice of his intention to ask for leave to bring in a Bill upon the subject of the Post-office Department, but at the suggestion of an Honourable Gentle man near him he concluded by moving that the House resolve itself into a Committee to take into consideration the laws re lating to the Post-office. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER presumed that the only object of the present motion was to raise a dis cussion. —(Hear, from Mr. Wallace.) To that he had no objection. He should ill discharge his duty, and not be showing that respect which he entertained for a Committee of this House, if he were to prejudge a question which was now under the consideration of a Committee up-stairs. He had been called upon to consider the propriety of adopting Mr. Hill's plan. For that gentleman he entertained very great respect, but he could not in deference to Mr. Hilt's judgment hazard the loss of an enormous amount of revenue. If he had made the experiment of Mr. Hill's plan, and had reduced the postage of all letters from their present amount to a penny, the increase in the numbers of letter that would be required to be delivered by the Post-office in order to pre vent a loss would be from their present amount of 43,000,000 to somewhere about 400,000,000. No person on earth could imagine that any permanent arrangement could be made that would augment the correspondence in this country within any limited period to such an extent. All existing ar rangements would have to be re-organised, and that upon a mere hypothesis. He would not presume to say that Mr. Hill's plan was wrong. Indeed he had consented to the appointment of a Committee, to whom that plan was submitted, and he thought it would be only prudent to await the report of that Committee, in order to see whether they considered it feasible. The twopenny postage was an increasing source of revenue, which clearly proved that the present rate of charge did not operate to diminish that description of correspondence. He had re duced the fourpenny postage to twopence, and had directed a registry to be k e pt o f the' amount of correspondence be fore the reduction and after—this would show the effect of that reduction upon the amount of correspondence. This information was essential, because all the reasoning in favour of an alteration would fall to the ground, unless it could be shown that the present Postage Duty threw difficulties in the way of the correspondence of the country. The Hon. Gen tleman was favourable to try the experiment of a stamp cover ; but did he wish to try it fairly ? It would not be trying it fairly if they said that a letter should go under a stamp cover for a penny, whereas a letter not going under a stamp cover should be twopence. It was supposed by some Gentlemen that notes of invitation and messages would be frequently sent by the Twopenny Post instead of by servants, if a stamp cover were allowed : he, therefore, had consented to the experiment. When the whole plan of Mr. Hill should have been considered by the Committee, and reported upon to the House, he should be prepared to give his determination upon it. At present he thought it prudent not to make any alteration in the existing system. He had great respect for the Chamber of Commerce in Edinburgh, but he should have attached much more weight to their recommendation if it had b e en made with reference to their own city, instead of relating to the mode of carrying on correspondence in London. Mr. HUME said that the object of his Houonrable Friend (Mr. Wallace) was precisely that which the Right Honour able Gentleman professed to Li his; namely, that no altera tion should be made until the whole plan had been fully determined upon. The Right Honourable Gentleman, how ever, said he was willing to make a partial attempt to carry Mr. Hill's plan into effect. It was not a partial trial of than plan, because Mr. Hill suggested the reduction of the duty to a penny. Two years had elapsed since the right Honourable Gentleman declared that the present system should be altered ; yet nothinr , had been done. The Post office Commissioners had made ten reports, and he remem bered no instance in which so many recomendations of a Commission had been left unnoticed. He admitted that sever al useful alterations Lad been introduced into the Post office department ; but he would press upon the consideration of the Government the distrust prevailing throughout the country as to any really beneficial change being effected while the present system continued. Mr. LABOUCHERE begged to state, that so far from the recommendations of the Commissioners appointed to in quire into the Post-office establishment not being attended to and supported by Government, he (as one of those Commis sioners) knew there had been on the part of the Government a most anxious desire to carry those recommendations into effect. When the Commission was appointed it was stated that the Commissioners would be a mere screen to the Go vernment to stave off all reform, and that there was no real intention of looking into the abuses of the Post-office. He on that occasion gave a pledge in his own name, and in the name of his colleagues, that they were determined to look fully and fairly into the subject, with a desire to lay before the public the sincere impressions which the inquiry might make upon them, and he now trusted that by the course they had taken the expectations of the country had not been disap pointed. The Commissioners made their reports without any communication or previous consultation with the Post-office or the Treasury, as they might have done, in order to ascer tain whether the opinions of those authorities coincided with their own before being promulgated to the world. It must necessarily have sometimes happened that there should be a -difference of opinion between the Commissioners and those two Departments. He believed that the Commissioners would not have done their duty if they had by previous communications endeavoured to avoid that difference of opinion. At the same time they had no occasion to blame the Post-office autho rities or the Government for exercising their own judgment with respect to the recommendations of the Commissioners. Nevertheless, he was not aware until this report with regard to the Twopenny Post-office came under consideration, that any important recommendation of the Commissioners had not been carried into effect as far as the Government could do it. He denied that it was the fault of the Government that the Post-office had not been placed under the management of Commissioners instead of a Postmaster-general. It was the fault of Parliament alone. With regard to applying Mr. Hill's plan to the two-penny post by reducing the charge to a penny, it certainly involved a considerable amount of reve nue ; still he was sorry his Right Hon. Friend did not think himself justified to try the experiment. He should be glad to see it tried. He did not agree that the stamp covers was the chief part of Mr. Hill's plan. The most important prin ciple of Mr. Hill's plan was the payment of the postage. This was a part of the plan about which he (Mr. Labouchere) had always entertained the greatest doubt. He very much doubted the readiness of the public to acquiesce in a system which would deprive them of all option, when sending letters, whether to pay the postage or not. Upon the whole, he thought it would be better to let the entire matter rest with the Committee up stairs; and he:should be rather glad if his Right Hon. Friend would not make any partial experiment with regard to the stamped covers. He did not think it would he likely to lead to much satisfaction. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the experiment of the stamped covers was not of his seeking. He had not the slightest difficulty, if the same gentlemen who first wished to see the experiment tried were now desirous that it should be suspended, to accede to their request. With regard to the observations of the Honourable Member for Kilkenny as to the recommendations of the Commissioners not having been acted upon, he (the Chancellor of the Ex chequer) wished to remark, that it was much easier for Commissioners and Members of Parliament to lay down a principle than for those who were charged with the execution of it to apply that principle. No principle was laid down more authoritatively than that of applying the system of contracts to our packet communications. Every body seemed to con sider that there was no port in which that experiment could be better tried than in the port of Liverpool. Parties in. formed him that if the unjust competition of the Government packets against the owners of the commercial packets were withdrawn, those owners were of that character that they would undertake to discharge the duty of carrying the mail for nothing. He and the Admiralty had been engaged from that time to the present in trying whether they could obtain such a contract, and what was the result? The only tender which the Government had received, contrary to all the pre dictions made, was, that whereas the Government packets yielded from passengers 21,0001. a year to the Government, t h ere were gentlemen in Liverpool generous and liberal enough to offer to enter into a contract, not to carry the mails for nothing, but for the sum of 34,000/. a year.— ( Hear, and laughter. Captain PE-CI-JELL said that a petition had been for warded to him from his constituents only this day, for which h e was charged 1/. 175. 6d. postage ; and not having that mon ey about him, the postman carried away the petition, and h e (Captain Pechell) should have to hunt it out before he could present it. True it was the postage was remitted by the Post-office, but it was a mere farce first to charge it, and then take it off again. Sir JAMES DUKE complained of the unfrequency of the twopenny-post delivery. Letters put in at Charing-cross at three o'clock were not delivered in the City till six. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL could bear testimony to the liberal conduct of the Post-office with regard to remitting postage on petitions. He had received a petition from his constituents, for which he was charged 461. 16s. 10d. The money was paid, but the moment the case was represented to the Post-office authorities, the amount was returned. The reason this petition was charged was that it was not open at both ends. Captain PECHE LL—The petition sent to me was open at both ends, and was in every respect in compliance with the regulations. An HON. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, stated that in a village within seven tulles of London, persons did not receive the letters which were put into the Post-office for them at half-past four in the afternoon in London till one o'clock the next day ; a person, therefore, who was living at Southampton, was in a better situation with respect to re ceiving his letters, than the inhabitants of that village. The Commission had recommended an alteration in the threepenny post delivery. He thought that eight months was an unne cessary length of time for carrying so obvious an improvement into effect. Mr. F. BARING said that the Commissioners did not ac tually recommend that an alteration of the system should be immediately adopted, with respect to the threepenny-post in the neighbourhood of London, but that an inquiry should be made with a view to a better management being effected, and the Government were now attempting to establish a better system. Mr. WALLACE would not long occupy the time of the House in replying to the statements which had been made ; but he must make one or two observations on the re marks of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on the con tracts for the packet service. In 1836 the St. George Steam packet Company offered to carry the mails to Ireland for no thing; but what did the Government do? They refused this offer, but allowed in the same year an Act to be passed by Parliament limiting the liability of the Company. This was done under the plea of assisting the inland navigation of Ire land ; but 200,000/. having been raised in consequence of that Act, the Company, instead of applying themselves to the in land navigation ; set to work to build boats purposely to beat the Post-office, or rather, at that time, the Admiralty packets. The Admiralty continued their old boats, and the consequence was, that the St. George's Company, having completely out sailed them, run them out of sight, and carried away all the custom, now turned round and did what every other trading com pany would have done under similar circumstances—they de manded 34,000/. to contract for doing what, before their new boats were built, they would have gladly undertaken for nothing. The great boon held out by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the reduction of the fourpenny postage to twopence, was not recom mended by the Post-office Commissioners, but was introduced by thQ Right Hon. Gentleman on his own responsibility. It was true that a Committee had been appointed on his (Mr. Wallace's) own motion, and was still sitting ; but three weeks afterwards, and before any report had been made. the Chan cellor of the Exchequer had given notice of his Bill. if the whole subject of the Post-office were to be left to the inquiry of the Committee, he had no objection to make ; but he hoped that in the meantime no attempt would be made by the Right Honourable Gentleman to give effect to his two penny proceeding.—(Laughter.) Having elicited that dis cussion, he would beg the leave of the House to withdraw his motion. Mr. H LIME, in reference to the charges on petitions, said that the one that he had presented in the early part of the evening had come to him yesterdny charged with postage; it had been marked " Refused" at his house, and had then been sent down to the House of Commons that day; a whole day had been thus lost, and much trouble given. He thought that the Post-office should determine at once to charge all pe titions weighing above six ounces, or to remit the amount. He must, say, however, that he had never known an instance of a charge for a petition in which the money paid was not returned on the circumstances being made known to the Post office authorities. Sir GEORGE SINCLAIR corroterated the statment of the Hon. Member for Kilkenny, that in every instance the money charged on petitions had been returned. The motion was then, by leave, withdrawn. DAY MAIL TO SCOTLAND. Mr. WALLACE again rose to comment on another peti tion which he had presented from the constituents of the Right Hon. Gentleman then in the chair. He thought that the great constituencies of Edinburgh and Glasgow had been hardly dealt with in not having a day mail, when Dublin, Manches ter, Birmingham, and other places, had been allowed the benefit arising from this recommendation of the Post office Commissioners. But these Commissioners had also recom mended that Edinburgh and Glasgow should be included in the arrangement. He had been assured that the day mail to Dublin had been established at the request of the Irish Go vernment. To this he had no objection ; but if the Irish Gu vernment had the power of controlling the Post-office authori ties, and of preventing the extension of a similar advantage to other parts of the kingdom, he did most seriously complain. He must insist that many of the recommendations of the Post office Commissioners had not been complied with, and one— the most necessary of any to remedy the defects of the pre sent system—the recommendation of placing the whole of the Post-office matters in the hands of Commissioners, had been, if not entirely overlooked, at least disregarded. The change had been recommended in the report of July, 1835 ; but the report had not been circulated till 1836: how it had been kept back, or by whom, he did not know ; still it was not delivered. In February, 1836, the Chancellor of the Exche quer had been asked whether he intended to carry into effect this recommendation? His answer was, that he intended to introduce a measure founded upon the report. It was not, however, till nearly the end of the session, the Bth of July, that a Bill was introduced ; it then passed through several stages in that House, and reached the other House on the 4th of August, and was on the 12th of August thrown out of the House of Lords, because there was not sufficient time at that late period of the session to give due consideration to so im portant a subject. Thus, although the Bill was promised in February, it was not begun till the Bth of July—one month only before the end of the session—and did not reach the Lords till within the last six days, and this was all the time which was afforded for deliberation on this great alteration. He feared that it was the amount of patronage at the disposal of the Government which they were most unwilling to part with, and which rendered them careless of the inconve nience experienced by the public. In 1837 they were pro mised that the Bill should be reintroduced. They all knew that the death of the Sovereign caused an abrupt termination of the session ; still more than two months of the present ses sion had already elapsed, and the Bill had not yet been repro duced. He did not see why a preference should be given to the northern parts of England and to Dublin over Scotland, and he thought that, in justice to the manufacturers of that country, they ought to have equal facilities in the receipt of their foreign correspondence. There were other general mea sures recommended by the Commissioners which had not been adopted. He should, however, conclude with moving for some returns which would show the real state of the case, and bring the whole question fairly before the House and the coun try. But he could not help adverting specifically to one great advantage which the Sunday mail possessed : it took down into the country the whole of the correspondence which came up on the Saturday night, and if the mail were granted to Edinburgh, the Saturday's letters would reach that city thirty-six hours before the present time. If a day mail were established the constituencies of Scotland would be able to read the debate of that night—if it were worth reading— ( Hear, hear, hear, and laughter)—twelve hours sooner than they could by the present arrangement. He recommended also, that instead of starting an additional mail-coach to carry the morning mail, the effect of which was to cheat the turnpike trusts of the tolls, they should employ the regular coaches, of which many were constantly running to Birming ham ; and he contended that there was no fear of the loss of the mail bags by these public conveyances, although they did carry so many passengers, for he had himself seen a mail coach carry seven outside passengers, without danger to the bags; and it was established last year before a Committee of that House, that in Ireland, where the bags were forwarded by public passenger conveyances, very few, if any, robberies took place. He complained of the limitation of the franking time in London to 10i- hours, whilst it was 24 hours in the eountry ; and of the Post-Master General's circular, stating that the boxes for the reception of letter.; for the morning mail would be open at the Houses of Parliament till six o'clock in the morning, when the Houses were shut at that hour ; and eluded by moving for " A return, in abstract, of the recom mendations contained in the ten reports of the Post-office Com missioners ; specifying, Ist, what recommendations had been carried into full effect : 2dly, what recommendations had been partially adopted; and, idly, what recommendations had not been acted upon; together, with the date of the report, the date when the reccommendations were adopted, and the names of the Commissioners appended to the report." Mr. HUME, in seconding the motion wished to ask a question of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He was satisfied that there was only one mode of removing the anomalies which at present existed, and the cause of complaint of the Hon. Member for Greenock, and that mode was by the adoption of the plan suggested by the Commissioners, by!changing the Postmaster-General's office. and allowing it to be executed by Commissioners. He hoped that no delay would take place upon this subject, and that the same excuse would not be furnished to the Lords as had been given in 1836 for rejecting a Bill of so much importance, be cause it reached them only within a week of the close of the session. It should be recollected also that our Post-office es tablishment annually taxed the public to the amount of two millions and a half, and cost more than any other similar esta blishment. There was, therefore, no excuse for delay, and he would conclude by asking the Right Hon. Gentleman when intended to bring in his Bill for carrying into effect the Com missioners' recommendations ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not rise to object to the motion of the Hon. Member, but he must express his opinion of the Hon. Memb er ' s unfa i rness in giv ing notice of one motion and then b r i ng i ng f orward another. The Hon. Member had given notice that he should call upon the House to " consider the petition from Edinburgh, pre sented sth February, for establishing a morning mail to Scot land." Instead of confining himself t o thi s , h e h a d ma d e a distinct charge against the Government, and concluded with a motion for returns of what had b een e ff ected towards carry i ng out the Commissioners' Reports. Such a course of proceed ing was neither fair nor just, and nothing but the disposition felt by the Government to give every information relative to the Post-office precluded him from giving a direct negative to the Hon. Member's proposition.--( Hear, hear.) He hoped the time would come when that House would not discuss a subject already referred to a Committee.—( Hear, hear.) If the House not only exercised, which it ought and was bound to do, a general superintendence over the administra tion as carried on in the different departments of the Govern ment, but descended to the inquiry whether a twopenny-post box should be opened in one place or another, he thought that they would not only be wasting the public time, but be also consuming the patience of the House ; and not all the mails which should convey the records of that discussion would raise Hon. Members in the opinion of their constituents, or the general character of that House.—( Hear, hear.) There was one subject mentioned by the Hon. Member to which he must specifically refer. The Hon. Member, in showing that the Government had overlooked the Report of the Commis sioners recommending an alteration in the present constitucion of the Post-office, went logically to work to prove his state ment by recapitulating from the votes of that House the steps which bad been taken by him (the Chancellor of the Exche- quer) in introducing- a Bill wh:ell had foeglit through t . ,iat House for giving effect to the Commissioners' recommenda tions, and which had been lost in another place. How, there fore, they could be proved to have overlooked the Report would require more ingenuity than was possessed by the Honourable Gentleman —( Hear, hear.) It certainly was his intention to introduce a Bill on this subject, contain ing enactments in the spirit of the alterations recommended by the members of Commission.—( Hear, hear.) With re spect, however, to the establishment of a day mail, which made a most important change in the arrangements of the Post-office, and which would only be effected by a great increase of expense, could anything be more rea sonable or more just than that they should try an ex periment in the first instance in a place where it was likely to be successful, and that they should wait to see the result of that experiment before they extended the plan ? It must be observed also that it was only to a por tion of the correspondence that a day mail was likely to be of any use. Whether letters were received at twelve o'clock at night or at six o'clock in the morning, was of no earthly importance—it was only near the extremity of the line, there fore, and in the neighbourhood of London, that the day mail would be of value. If the Hon. Member considered likewise the entire alteration which was taking place in the country with regard to the whole system of coach communication, and the lines of railroad which were being established throughout the country, he would not, as a man of common sense, wish that they should enter into changes which would entail enor mous charges on the public, till they saw what permanency would be established. The Western Railway, for instance, was likely to be completed, and would the Hon. Member wish the Government to establish a double line of communication? Many others were in progress ; and with respect to the Bir mingham mail, he did not think that they could find contrac tors who would do anything for nothing, for the number of coaches was already so much reduced as to render travelling very inconvenient at the present moment; and the Post-office had a difficulty, even after paying double the or di nar y contrac t price, to find contract ors . Th e full establishment of the day mail would require the re-modelling of the whole mail esta blishment, and he thought that Government was acting more prudently by not saddling the country at once with an enormous mass of charges, but by seeing the results of what had been already done. The Hon. Member for Greenock seemed to suspect that the Government never consulted the convenience of the public ; but he must observe that the interest of the Government was directly the reverse of this, for the more letters passed through the Post-office the more correspondence took place ; and the more the public convenience was con sulted the more income would it produce and the greater would be the public revenue.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. W. D. GILL ON thought that they ought to facilitate by every means in their power the transmission of letters and newspapers. The Right Hon. Gentleman had objected to the expense of establishing daily mails, but he thought that having sent them to Birmingham, M anc h ester, Li verpool, and Ireland, it would not be any great stretch of generosity to ex tend them to Scotland The same mail would carry the Scotch as carried the Birmingham letters. At Warrington now two snails met and ran together to Carlisle, where they separated, one going to Edinburgh, the other to Glasgow; by letting one coach carry both bags to Carlisle, and by making the second coach meet the day mail, both might be carried without the addition of a single coach. From Carlisle there were already two day mails, so that with the same establish ment the greatest increase of assistance might be afforded to the mercantile interests of Scotland. He thought that his Honourable Friend had been hardly dealt with when he had been accused of wasting the time of the House, for he ( Mr. Gillon) considered this a most important subject. Whether he (Mr. Gillon) should succeed or not in the motion which he intended to bring forward for the equalization of the taxation on tile various methods of inter nal communication, he must remark on the great absurdity of charging any duty on carriages carrying the snails, for the mileage duty was repaid by the public in the shape of an in creased rate of contract, and the public were clear losers by the poundage. Valuable evidence was given before the com mittee of last year by Sir Edward Lees that great advantage had been experienced in Ireland from the establishment of mails carrying passengers and paying no duty, and no rob beries had been effected on these mails, whilst many had been committed on the single-horse or foot posts. By these means also posts and conveyances for passengers had been established on the cross-roads of Ireland, whilst they were very deficient in all the cross-roads in England and Scotland.—(Hear.) Sir GEORGE SINCLAIR was of opinion that the esta blishment of a day mail would be a great recommendation to the people of Scotland, and that it might be obtained at a comparatively trifling expense. He would call the atten tion of the House to the present position of the two penny postmen employed in London. They had recently had some additional onerous duties imposed upon them, without their receiving any additional pay. Mr. F. BARING said that he had no doubt that the esta blishment of the day mail would be of great use to Edinburgh, but it was a matter in which he thought this House would not interfere. With regard to the wages paid to the two penny-post letter-carriers, he was of opinion that the pay which they received was a sufficient remuneration for their services, although it was true that their duties had of late been increased by an arrangement recently made in the Post office. At the same time, however, additional hands had been employed, and means had been adopted by which they would be entitled eventually to some remuneration : this was by their becoming entitled on long service, to some extra pay. The plan bad been adopted by the Treasury, in obedience to a sug gestion which he had thrown out ; and a mode of classification had been taken by which good servants of the longest standing would be the best paid. With regard to the general question of increasing the pay of letter-carriers, he was of opinion that any alteration in the present system was unnecessary. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that he felt that he ought not to allow this subject to be discussed without expres sing a hope that the °fliers of her Majesty's Government, within whose province the matter lay, would give the subject their most serious and speedy consideration. He had no doubt the establishment of a day mail to Ireland was most useful ; arid he had no doubt that it was proper that it should be seen whether the plan with regard to that portion of the kingdom succeeded before it should be carried into effect with reference to another portion of the kingdom. It had suc ceeded, and why was it not adopted now with regard to Scot land ?—( Hear.) The line was already formed to Liverpool, and the mail might be conveyed on without much additional expense. Not only Edinburgh but the whole of Scotland was interested in the matter. Mr. WALLACE replied, and expressed his satisfaction at the mode in which the discussion had been carried on. The motion was then agreed to. REAL PROPERTY LAW. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that in rising to move for leave to bring in several Bills to amend the law as it at present stood with regard to real property, he should feel it necessary to occupy the attention of the House only for a few moments. The Bills which he now proposed to introduce were substantially the same as those which had been intro duced in a former Session, and they were founded on the re port of the Real Property Commissioners. The first was a Bill to facilitate the enfranchisement of lands of copyhold and customary tenures. He had wished to abolish the tenures altogether, as he knew they were attended with very great inconvenience, in producing disputes between the lords of manors and others, but he was not bold enough to bring in a measure so sweeping in its provisions. His Bill was there fore only to facilitate the enfranchisement of lands. The second Bill was introduced with a view of remedying some of the inconveniences with regard to copyhold tenures, such as holding courts, making surrenders, and with regard to leasing copyhold lands ; and it was entitled a Bill for the Amendment of the Law relating to Lands held by Copy or Court-roll. The third Bill was to authorise the identifying or ascertaining the boundaries of manors and lands, where such boundaries were confused or unknown. The limits of manors he knew were ill-defined, and with a view to their being properly settled he proposed that referees should be appointed to ascertain them. The fourth Bill was for abolishing customs relating to lands in certain cases. He desired that the ge neral law should be that of primogeniture, but there were some cases in which it was proper that the old law should be continued. In the case of the custom of gavelkind, which existed in the county of Kent, he did not propose any alteration. It was, in his opinion, mischievous, for the effect of it was th at i n t h e event of the death of a man with seven sons and seven daughters, his property would not go to the eldest son, nor would it be equally divided among his children, but it would be parted among the seven sons, and his daughters would not receive anything. The people of Kent, however, were satisfied with the custom, and it would be better to allow it to remain. He had wished to abolish heriots altogether, as well as copyholds, in accordance with the Bill he had formerly brought before the House ; but he felt that he could not now extend his proposed measure so far. The only other subject to which his Bills referred was the law of escheat. He desired to bring in a Bill which would very much modify the existing law ; but he did not think that it was necessary now to go into the particulars of it, but hoped that the second reading would not be opposed when the Bill might be referred to a Select Committee of Members ; and he hoped that those Gentlemen who were connected with the legal profession would give him their assistance. Mr. GOULBURN did not oppose the motion of the Learned Attorney-General; but he was glad to find that he had omitted in his Bill the Clause which had before been introduced with regard to compensation for heriots; for he thought that that could never be persevered in with any prospect of success. The Learned Attorney-General had thrown out that it was his intention to call upon those Ho nourable Members connected with the legal profession who were in the House to afford their services on the Select Com mittee. Now, with all respect to those Honourable and Learned Members, he would' suggest that the Committee should not be entirely formed of such persons, but that some of those Alemhers of the House who were acquainted with the subject of manors generally should be also selected ; for he was of opinion that the legal Gentlemen would suggest merely those amendments which affected the technical portions of the law, and which would facilitate the transfer of large properties, but which would not touch upon the real justice of the case. Mr. AG LIONB Y hoped that the Learned Attorney-Ge neral would not confine his Bill to defining the limits of manors only, but that lie would direct his attention also to lands within manors.—Leave was then given to hr:n r g iu the Bills. DUTY ON BRICKS. Mr. FORBES moved for a return of the amount of duty paid upon brick s i n E ng l an d , S cotland, and Ireland, respec t vely, in each of the last five yeas ending the sth of January, 1838, specifyin g the number of bricks supplied to each county, together with a return of the expenses incurred in_ collecting the duty. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that for some years past a regular system had been carried on by