The Sun. — London, England, 1818-04-07 00:00:00

securities which the public Creditor held were thus rednced one by one, the foundations of pub -1:c credit - would be shaken. The House must , come to the discussion with a view to the coun - ' try, to the revenue, and above all to the ptitAlc faith. He concluded by moving, that the till be read this day six months. Lord ALTFIORPE agreed with the Hon. Gentle man that the revenue should not be neglected, but it was a still higher duty to support 'the Ma nufactures from which that revenue proceedea.— It was better to uphold them in time than to have a nominal income, which won'd vanish with their prosperity . He then went Welly through spine of the arguments which lie had stated oil iliti•o dueing the subject to r o lte House, and 'contended that the diminution in the uninber:Of hides pur chased by tanners was a convincing proof of the depression of their trade. The Han. Gentleman had said that it was occasioned by the ce,sation of war : but that had not been the case in other wars. Lord DaaittinasT did not intend to trespass above a moment on the attention of the House, iti treading afresh the track so beaten already, by a recapitubcion of the arguments which had been, lie hoped, successfully used by the Noble Lord \vim had originiliv moved the que ; vion, and by other Honourable Members who intended to vote as he did, for the repeal of the Duties on Leather. It wiz not his (Lord Deethnrsi's) inclination to fippoce Minn trifling grounds the taxation considered necessary ,by his Majesty's Ministers, but representing, as he did, a great Commercial city, deeply interested in the present debate, he could not give a silent vote, without : stating that the repeal of the Additional Ditties on Leather was of great import to many highly respectable persons connected with that trade in Worcester, who prayed to be relieved from the burden of it, that they might, at least, upon equal" terms, meet the foreign merchants in the tnatket,, •which they were unable to do with the additional duty in force, as they at present stood. lie should therefore vote for the repeal of those Bills. Mr. 11. Davies wished to explain the grounds on which, having wished for the repeal of the Leather Tax on the first reading of the Bill, he ; should now give his vote against it. Doting the access he had consulted some eminent tanners, . and they did not think that they would derive touch benefit, any more titan the public, from the repeal. He had received a letter from one of the principal tantuls at Bristol, anti_ one who well knew his own interest, which he would read with the permission of the House. lie then read a letter, which stated, that the Tanners of Bristol had not petitioned against the Tax, and that their silence had arisen from the conviction, that nei, timer the manufacturers not the consumers would derive much benefit - frotn the Repeal. It attria bitted the defalcation to the change from a state of . warfare to one of peace, and Mentioned the increase which had taken place in the large yards as sufficient to account for the closing up of smaller ones. On those groutals; which Struck him as well-founded, he t Mr. 11. D ) would vote in favour of the Tax, es it was necessary to sup s port the ;even:me of the country,, and he did no t i see any other duty which WotilttStipply the place of the 'present it it were abolished. A 111ernber, whose name we could 'not learn, spoke strum; ly against the-Tax. Lord comrToN contended, that the argument, used by the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. C. Grant), tim.4 no additional tax had been laid on the Leather- Trade front the reign of Queen Anne to 1812. %vas most unfortunte for his side of the' ques tion, for it proved the view which the ditietent Chancellors of the Exchequer, who succeoled, each other during that period, entertained of that subject. they thought such a tax justifiable, they certainly would nut have been so long with out imposing •it. Mr. MARRYATT would not alter his vote as an Hon. Gentleman had announced his intention to do; for he thought that the teal sentiments of the tanners were mild) better known by the numer ous petitions before the House than by the letter of any private individual. One . of the injurious con . sequences of the tax was its haviug doubled the exportation of unmanufactured leacher articles. During the five years before the additional duty, from 1808 to 1813, the amount of unmanufactur ed articles exported appeared to be, - from the re turns before mime House, 5,603,395. During the : five years following time imposition of the tax, or front 1813 to 1817, it was 10,710.073. The amount of manufactured articles exported had, on the contrary, diminished oueAmalf. During the five ending in, 1813 it had been 2,449,712, and florin.' those ending in 1817, only 1,14'2,111. Another proof might be deduced from the lum ber of raw-hides purchased in the year before time duty, and since. In the first case, it was 870,000, and hi 1817 only 298,000. This showed that, by the present tax, the manufacture of leather was thrown into foreign hands. Mr. BENSON should not have bait for the, letter which had been read to the House. The Hon. Member who had communicated it had said, that his correspondent knew his own inte rest well. So did that Hon. Member when 'he announced his intention of altering his former vote.—(Order, order !) Mr. H. DAVIES asked the lion. Member on what grounds he rresumed to state, that he (Mr. 11. D.) acted front interested Motives in that. House ?—(Order, order !) The SPEAKER (as well as could be heard) thought it his dimly to say, that the observation•of the lion. Gentleman was not meant to convey any thing personal. Mr. BeNsos denied that he had meant any per sonal allusion ; but he thought, on'the eve of a General Election, it might appear like a ma noeuvre of the I.lort Gentleman, to change his vote as he had doni his , opinion. Mr. LosHIN6YON expressed his opinion, that there never *di' a complaint made against a Tax With-less fOundalion. He WAS astonishfd at the arguments that had been use 4 against it. Had the Noble Lord or the non. Member read any of time itatementstliat - had been published ? Lietnust really - think they had not. If he had perused the . fr , ateprent 'showing die amount of the cluties, he ti mad ha ve' found that for five years before the eouble duty,. the atnomit was only 52,0001. and fur five years subsequent it was 181,0001. tie WAS cOnviilced that the tax was "prokictive to the public, and that the trade wg's in a flonrishing state. It iVai not Fair to say, that if -the tax produced 350,000 E in time of War, it o ight to prodder 700,0001. now ; and his only asroni s l i ment that in a state of peace it should be so productive as it is ; the excess within the last or present year being 3,000,000 lbs. "of leather. To abolish it would be literally taking 180,0001. front the pOckets of the public, and putting it into those of the Tanners. It • would not be attempted to be said, that if this tax were given up, another must not he imposed. 'I he revenue frOm thiS sithject in the present year vas ;;renter than in the last, and therefore the Noble Lord's purpose was not answered by his Objections to - the fair. The smith ber of master Tanner, it appeared, had been di- thinished by 21 ; but did this sliew . that the trade. '*as impoverished ? lie could prove the Contrary by a statememt from the extensive tannery of Messrs. Brewitt, which showed that. for the last 10 years it had been gradually increasing, and had this year increased from 5,9001. duties to 6,7001. The quantity Of leather Manufactured last Year had greatly exceeded th'at of the year preced ing. lithe Hon bent. had any doubt, he Would hite 11(1 difficulty in laying the papers on the table.-4 The lion. Genrleinan here read a statement -of the prowess of Messrs. Gretein's conceit], from which it appeared, that in 1809, their dittiesik'ere only 9731. ; thii't they had largely increased • every year '; that in 1813 they were 59001. ; in 1816, 59001. ; and . last year, 67601. Another evidence was the'present price of leather. It had riseu limn fifteen to twenty per cent. within the year. 'Wasthis a proof of adversity ? The fact waS; that the tax cattle out of thepockets•of the public and went into that of the tanners ; for they were not. called on to pay the ditties till after they had taken the leather to market and received the value for it. It shOuld be recollected that for centuries back, till 1801, this trade had received no addi tional burtbeu, wlrile every other trade had. The drawback that had been granted had given much, satisfaction to the trade in general, and to all concerned in the manufacture Of leather, parti-. cularly ihe shoemakers,, w.ho had this year as sured him that their anxious desire was, that this law should receive no alteration, 'and that, the pretence-of the tanners was scandalous and Mr. MARRYATT, in explanation, observed, that he had tiortaid a wOrdatiout the drawback. His argument was, that a lax which would drive the manufactured article out of the country must be disadvantageous. Mr. BROUGHAM was unwilling to detain the House even for a few minutes ; but lie could not suffer one or two Observations which had fallen horn tile Hon. Gentleman to be passed over. He assumed,- that if this tax were abolished another must be imposed. This he denied. He must remind him, that about two years ago, it had pleased his colleagues, or rather the House had compelled them, to repeal a tax ; and on that oc• casion all the estimates were given in for the ser- ViCe.Of the' year. They were, however, taken 'back, revis'ed - , and reduced, so that' no substitute was necessary. He wished them now to - take this as a precedent. But what was the present tax.? Only 180;0001. They should therefore go back to somenf their items - of this year, and bring them down so 'as to Meet this deduction. It was now the duty of the House to See •not only that not ,180,9001., but not even a single pound should• be raised more than was necessary. They should recollect that not one of those Estimates were' yet absolutely voted'; they bad only come to a resolution th at s uch and such • establishments should be kept up ; and an Hon. Friend of his had- proposed a measure for 'reducing 5000 or 6000 men from the army. The trade of. Messrs. Brewin was only a solitary authority ; but surely the whole body of tanners who had conic forward ought to be listened' to, 'when they say that their trade will - be 'ruined by the continuance of this tax: An . Hon. Gentleman had given a letter from the tanners of Bristol, as a reason for changing his 'opinion. If this was not the rea son, he had certainly given none at all. But were the other branches of the trade not to be :attended tothe shoemakers for example ? There *as certainly 'a most marvellous contradic tion in the Opinions of the Gentlemen oppo site. The . Tax does fall on the consumer, and therefore it was that he opposed it. • 'file •lion.. Gentleman had Said that the - tanners had no right to complain, as the Tax than now falls on the consumer must fall on the tanner. But the in jury ri'as done 'immediately to the maker of this arliele, by the diminutibn of the consumption, ,which fell on both, each in his own department. lint now it was said, that this was a tax on the necessaries of life. His objection - was that it fell Most unequally, like all others of that description, on those who could not afford to pay it, more than on those who could afford to pay it, and more. Was lost by it indirectly than was gained directly. Every tax no the - necessaries - of life had •a ten den.cy to increase - the - price of labour in every de rartment consequently while they were raising the paltry rsp,om. they - were obliged to pay twice as touch in other channels. It had all the objections that could be urged against a poll-tax ; for every person paid as Muchi-be his means what "they might. The peasantry of the country, who Wore the heasiesf shoes, paid as much, -and even adore, !flan those Gentlenieir who now heard him; for their Shoes being heavier, and tire tax going by it fell 'hi the most 'borthensoine manlier on those who COMA leasi' afford to - pay it. On the whole, he' Ilati heard notl.ing either from the Letter of. the 'limners or Ole - lion. Gentlemen oppiisite to alter his opinion that this tax ought to be _repealed. • Mr. licisfussoN wished to explain an error into which he was staprized the lion. Gentleman had .He bad sajd, that if this tax we►e taken off, the House n►igbt- . proceed as they lo o t done before, without substituting any oilier. If he al luded to the property-tax he was totally nth taken. There-was an obvious distinction bet wren a tni only for the duration of the war, and this tax, which 'formed part of the Ways and Means, -and was carried to the Consolidated Fund for the payment of the.interest of the debt. This tax, he must inform the lion. Gentleman, formed no part of the supply of the year,, and whether they were to abate 500 Q or 10,000 men, there would • , Le no diffrrenre rtsspectlng it, as it was 'pledged for the payment of the interest of the loans granted .oa the liith of Parliament. The whole amount of the Permanent Taxis carried ft) the .Consolidated Fund were not equal to its objects ; 'and therefore every body liniSt see that the tax could not Ii repealed without, the substitution of another. H there were an excess of Supply, Ministers might then consider the remission of taxes ; but they were bound by every tie to the. public, if they abolished this tax, to find some - other. But the Ilon. Gentleman seemed 10 think that all taxes on the necessaties of lite should he done away. with, Suppose, then, that. the Excise duties. on malt, - im beer, and similar, article's, were to be abolished, on what.ground would the public •faith be placed ? Ile Owned lie had listene.l to all the arguments in favour of the repeal of thiS tax, and had read all .the numerous statements of Gentlemen on the subject ; but his [ conviction W 4 3 -, that it Government were in a situation that could enable them to enter into the consideration of a hat taxes they could remit, the tax on leather was not the first that should claim their attchtkm, as there were many that fell Much • more 1) 4 14 upon the consamer. lie would agree that this rkx fell upon the public, who were the coosamers; but he must reinind the lion Geo ileanao, .wllO, he tbOught, could not have read the different statements and petitions, that all those staleintnts proceeded tin this ground—not t h at t h e t ax w a s an injury to the Consumr; but their regret that it could not be transferred flour them to the cOnStner. But this tax was laid on in time of war, anti at a moment of the greatest difficulty. If a similar reason had been urged for a reduction of any other tax under the Excise; and the Ilan. Gentleman had rested his case on the diminution of the soother of persons concetn— ed in any particular trade, he might, for instance, have taken that of the maltsters, then he have found, that the double tax on malt, that flail existed for fileen ,or sixteen years,.had produced a serious (limit - m(4in of that trade, which had suf fered a great number of bankruptcies sail extents of the crown. But he would even furnish the Noble Lord and the Hon. Cientlerwin with a much better argument : they would have found a far greater diminution of the trailers taken the war ..duty on malt was taken off, than in those of lea- . ther, which continues. The old malt dirty only . produced on the average 3,000,0001. and now it was dindniShed to 1,900,0001.. So the Noble Lord might as well say, Here is the conse qnence of your taking off the duty; you ought to lay it on again." lie felt that the arguments apinst the Leather Tax were, so contradictory, and bore on so many views that were unfair, that it was impossible to countenance them., The Hon Gentleman then went over. the various . meats that had been urged by the Gentlemen op posite, and argued that on alt the grounds it was the interest of the tanner alone that was studied. Bat this was a trade that had suffered in cormiton with all others, in consequence of the return of peace, and, like all others, it was gra dually reviving. But it was rather at the interest of the public that, the -loose ought to look, than at ••that of individuals; and for the interest of the former lie would say, do not consent to repeal • - this tax, as they will not have the benefit of Ile •trould maintain, that a greater injury could • not be done to the public - titan by experiments of commuting' taxes on aititles of consumption, as they would not diminish. the price to the, con ,sumer.• There was no tax, in fact, that could In. repealed with gull benefit- to the public, except i direct' taxes, anti if any reduction could possibly he-made, these should be the - first that ought to meet consideration. • Lord CompTON said a few words in explana tion. He preferred direct taxes to such as bore indirectly on the public at large. Ile had not said that he should vote for the repeal of the salt duty; but -he should give his opinion on this sub ject at the proper time. The House then divided on Lord Althorpe's motion for the second reading of the Bill— Ayes I'3o Noes 136 Majority agtiinst the Bill .... —G ' On return to the Gallery, the Houk were disposing of the other Orders of the Day. A conversation took place between Sir J. Newport, 'Mr. B. Bathurst, and Mr. Lushington, respecting the delay in the return of the Report of the Commissioners of Inquiry into' the Fees of Cottrts of Justice in England; when the last mentioned Gentleman intimated thAt he had a Preliminary Report from them, stating, among other facts, the imprac ticability of completing their labours in less than two months to come.—This was subsequently bromght up, and ordered to lie on the table and to be printed. ADJOURNMENT. Lord CASTLEREAGH moved, that the House at its rising do adjourn till Wednesday; but that the Committees have leave to meet to-morrow notwithstanding. Also, that the Priate - Bills which stood fur to-Morrow be postponed till Wednesday.—Agreed to. The Irish Cork Importation Bill was read a third time and passed. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE QUER for the third reading oldie Four-wheel Carriages Bill, Sir.). N Ewpota hoped the measure wou•ld be extended to Ireland. - The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was under stood to say that the present measure would not answer ally beneficial purpose for that part of the kingdom ; but that be had another in contemplation of a similar purport. • Sir JOHN NEWPOP.T moved for Accounts of the number Of Causes decided, and whether for Plaintiff or Defendant, in the Assistant Bat risters' Court in Ireland,' established by the Act of the 57th of the King, up to the Ist day of April, 1818, Also' for an Account of the u u mt,er of Declarations filed in the superior Courts of Ireland, the i , soes on which did not ex ceed 251. each. He stated his object principally to he to afTertain how far the lower classes were aggrieved by the course' of proctivdings in the Barristers' Court, After a few words from Mr. L. FOSTER, the motion was agreed to. FEES ON PARDONS UNDER THE GREAT SEAL. DOUGLAS rose to move for leave to bring its - a 13111 -to diminish the expences of obtaining pardons under the Great Seal. He thought the House would be Surprised to learn that such a pardon could notbe obtained under the great suns of 1.101. In truth this expence prevented. many per sons, who might he proper objects of the Royal mercy, from legaining the enjoyment of aseir ci vil rights. He believed it would be found that only twelve pardons at this kind had been granted during the last seven years. He thought be could prove that these fees were, on some occasions, a great itnpediment to public justice ; and he would mention the circumstance which first led his at tention to the subject. Its the district in which he voided sonic of the worst sort of crimes were 1:e -quently committed. On one occasion a female evidence could have been brought forward, . • kirl,Q3c testirm . :4 x'vouitt have led to the convico o of the culpr it, but'She haying been convicted of a• felony, could not be exit - nine& without baying rained a• pardon niirrer the Breit Seal. ire 10' Keen commissioned tii'obiain It, and be found, that in addition to the gi-eat expence•of the prosee tv Lion, the pardon would cost 1101. The only WaY'.• therefore, that the object could be arrived at Was'. by a person making himself responsible for the expence, which still remained to be repoid to lriat , These expences, therefore, might actually pi: O TO ir :the course of public justice. The 11(in. Gen t• , 1 „'„, man argued, that it was not proper tnat yva alt ittitiviattai might be pardoned, he should 1;:e vented by an inability to pay his fees. lie ob! , jectctl to Officers under the Crown receiving a n fees whatever for being the medium 'of a gran t ° f mercy, .as it was like restricting the quantity 0 . mercy granted by die . Crown according tu' rbe . ability to pay for it. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL stated that Ml pardons were granted like all other patents 11 0 fi ei. the Great Seal, and were subjected to the gon e , duties as all other letters patent. The charg e ': aro.sefrorn the !rosiness done in preparing the 1" r 1 ; dons, and for the stamp duties upon them, wh' e lasi amounted to atil. The otter part of the elv ' pence went to the Public Fie Fund, and for the payment of two of the Law Officers of the Crow"; who - saw, by theinselves or their agents, that patent's were properly advanced land one Ina( ' l° l for the e*pences of affixing, the,..Great so Ali ed . persca applied fur e : fface suet , t Your of the CIOVVII, he muse. naturally esP e :.- to pay the expence of ordaining .it, 11; , ticularly as - the Legislature bad enacted- - Stant') DatieS in question. But in SeVerai i"; stances. it had happened, that where, in the cog rs t. of public justice, justice could not be obt" i " et without. it, the- Crown had paid the fees - i tself . But convicted felons, and persons who wished to he restored to their rights, had nogrounds to eS " peel the labours of puhlic.officers free of expe nee ', as in this case they were Paid not by salaries, 0 " • according to the business they did. Leave NV:iS then given to bring in the Bill. it The Loan AnvocATE gave novice, tha t should on Friday move for leave to bring in 13 1 to controul the improper expenditure of die porations of the Royal Burghs of Scotland. ~eit Dr. PHILLINIORE postponed his motion stood for WAnesday next till Friday the of May.—Adjourned. • OLD BA I LEY. f FoßGEning.---:Yesterday Janes . Butler. 11111 3 Spaid, and. Susan - 11 ilson, were brought tip t° ! :1 bat' under a charge—of toi•gery. They all ple 4 `„ ( t guilty to the minor offence, VC 11 su bjects tue: to 14 years' transpurtarion. s 1- - Mathias Maher, who was brought up la st --e d 'sion in a state derangement, on a charge. forge; y, and attempted to jump over the r soners' dock, was again brought up this play , appearing to be still insane, his trial-wk's P °s- pOnyd. IVm. Latimer. < Earnshate was t wice' actioitte d I 4 charges of stealit* nioney on) of Fetters; ha t "" a t detained to be tried for stealing some- Icitick s cla of ri" dwelling-house. CITAQLES HUSSEY.—Yesterday Mr, Cl if ton, 410 m, - Attorney, of ChaUcery . :- lane, who ori'g inai n i) ; brOught the information to Bow-street a ce the apprehension of Charles Hussey at Dedm:rir ton, Oxfordshire, in consequenee of lvtt erl had received from Mr. Field and Mr. Churchll, . D Attornirs of that place, attended again in °: qnence of other. communications from el" 14 ton, giving an account of more evide nce discovered against Hussey, of his having. :4°,ine, by-a different name, and also of his lov!P,'" b nied his name, on bit being challenged wita. ing the man. Judgment was given yesterday, in the Pr er° Ge , 4 :: rive Court, in' the important case of Ki nlesi Harr r; ison. Sir Jou Nicou. pronounce d r°r . l r validi:y of all the contested codicils of Air Harrison's will, but did not think himself i"sl.e( in allowing costs. • I Ille" We are•authorized to state, that since to e , P H dital Board has been-es ablished a t Chrq .-- ,,i g : House, Great Charlotte-street, opposite the e a t, Rowland Hill's Chapel, and IVOodstocli-sttet4 , adjoining New Bond -street, upwards of 1%1- r r e • Thousand Patients of both sexes have b eet) stored to perfect health, many of tch° lll , - ;• lingered for years under the most painful ati":l,4 stina:a diseases, were pronounced incnrab le ,a I respectable practitioners , an d several dischsirr:; from Hospitals—Stich is the effects tesult.i a l V „ combined talents ! ! / t so" Messrs. COOPER and Co.` of Medical °"-,lhig celebrity, after forty years exPerience 11.05e5 Metropoli. , ;, are consulted daily at both 11° 1 ice/ until nine at night, and the poor have 0(f11.0.. gratis, on Tne-sday, Thirrsday, and Sundai).o ings. until twelve o'clock. c ater Patients at a distance, describing the' r ;,,,ct' immediately attended to.—All letters to be "7 tie ed to Charlotte House, Black friars-roo l, but 1100, are answered which do not contain a c5,./11 BIBTIIS. %I t ' On Saturday morning last, in Upricr Brook-str eet ' cotmtess Ehrington, stre et ' On Monday. Marcli 30, Mrs. Flake Will, Lower 13r 0 ° 117 of a daughter. —...;:•!'' --------- , MARRI. of F,D Es 4 On Saturday last, at St. Pancras,. Genrge Spencer, . Dorchester, to Miss E , . Dennison, of Pancras. G olf On the 4th instant at St. Pancras Chureh, r ), " 7i'l , Esq. of Kennington, to Mrs. Whiteman, of Kentish-ti.,w" . DIED. [oO es Yesterday morning, -at nine o'clock, at llelbourn-11 Viscountess Nl'lmiun. G e o rg es On Saturdaye last, at ‘Vrottesley, in Staffords hire, the fourth son Sir .'ohn ‘Vrolteslrv, But. c m l; 8 0 3 ,, The sae slay, at his house.at Camberwell, from a" o f ,tv' of apoplexy, 'fi:mots Plummer, Esq. in the 69th Y ear th age. On Sunday last, in Albemarle - ro w, Clift pri E l .' te r Magdalane . , wife of John Gerrard, Esq. and only- sis Lieutenant-General Sir Hilgrove Turner. IrO t LONDON: Printed by J. B. CARSTAIRS, of No'. Q 9, Ormond-street, Queen•square; and published 0 ".„ ticl SCRIPPS, of No. 77 South Molton—street, at Tg.,',.l, c ity Other, No. 112. Strand ; where Advertisewe (" nti, a Lettets,'&c. (post-puiel) must be addressed. , , her e ,„ Plcxt 4kr4je anti, to "ea " 1 41 ' *tic, ~~~ kt;i th e t t r,