The Sun. — London, England, 1864-02-10 00:00:00

producethe tshaantcun of theoroiginald Queen,espatchind t sent fr e orat y he th F e etaosreeicgrnry o Office i State, but which was afterwards withdrawn and altered,. Sir H. CAIRNS said—l wish also to ask a . question relative to papers we had printed . this morning, some p t sao m m i e ng fro d m esp t a h t e ch A e m s, e s ri o c m an e from the cu..__ has been one despatch of very on e s r i i a c e a n of affairs the w Minister here. But -liar character which has great importance and of a pee,. ' in the ordinary a t c ; 32 , been printed in America, and reprinteu . 4,, ted, I channels of information in this country. It was think, 11th July last year. If I understand, this despatch, coming from the American Minister of Foreign Affairs, was to bo read to Earl Russell and a copy of it left with him, and it is evidently far more material than any yet laid on the table. I wish to ask her Majesty's Government whether they are prepared to communicate that despatch to the House of Commons, and at the same time the answer that was returned either to Lord Lyons or sent directly, or whether they are prepared to state that no answer was sent. (Cheers.) Mr. LAYARD—When that despatch is communi cated to her Majesty's Government it will be published. It was never presented to her Majesty's Government, and her Majesty's Government have no knowledge of any such despatch. I do not quite understand to what despatch the other hon. gentleman alludes to in reference to Poland. If there is such a despatch—and I think there is not—if he will communicate with me privately on the subject it shall be produced. Lord R. CECIL—Do I understand the secretary to say that no despatch from Mr. Adams to the Foreign-office, conveying the demands which Mr. Seward made, has been forwarded to the Foreign-office, and if thereis no despatch, is there any memorandum of any verbal application con veying the same insolent demands ? Mr. LAYAR )—.E have stated that although that de spatch appeared in the newspapers, we have no knowledge it was never communicated, and we cannot pro- the house, instead of meeting at two o'clock tc-morrow, should adjourn till Thursday. (Hear , hear.) SCHLES WIG-H OLSTEIN, . Mr. S. FITZGERALD — I cannot avoid to r to the 7 . pertunity which this motion g i v es To to a dress a I..'w words to the house upon the extraordin ,ry 01 sever which wag given with reference to the Danish papa s by the hon. gent.eman i th e Under -Secretary for Foreign Affairs. That is a question upon which the heart of this country is set, which agitates nearly e very portion o f t he Con tin e nt, and upon which this house and the country are agreed in de manding the most complete information, not only as to the facts that are passing, but as to the conduct pursued from day to day by her Majesty's Government, and the course they have pursued for weeks past. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman being asked when we may expect information on these points quietly tells the house that no papers at all can be given before a period of three weeks. (Cheers.) Three weeks I why, what may have happened in three wee ks ? In the spaceof three days we have seen the Duchy of Schleswig overrun, we have seen a gallant people beaten d ow n by an overpowering force. (Loud cheers.) And yet on such a question as this the Government tell the House of Commons that they are to remain contentedly in the dark for a period of three weeks I Now, I beg to point out to the house that as regards Japan papers were promised in her Majesty's Speech ; but respecting Denmark complete ei :ence was observed, and no information was promised to th e lij:nse of Commons. And as to the difficulty of pub lishing these uspers the noble lord at the head of the Foreign Office when he L :hooses to do s . o is at no loss for means of giving information to :he public about We know hi otv v his policyery well and that t the ~t course which he is going to . ' , le lord, before the ink of in the course of the autumn the nos off to the _London a particular despatch was dry, hurried re ' ee published Gazette, and in the columns of the Gazette it wa_ e was even before it reached the Power to whom that despatce addressed. (Cheers.) I think the house will conceive from the answer of the hon. gentleman and from the course taken by her Majesty's Government on this subject that they fear discussion. (Hear, hear.) They know very well, with the feeling which always prevails in this house, that there will be no discussion until the house has had ample means of forming an opinion ; and they hope by delay to tide over the critical time, and to avoid a discussion of their policy, and of the course they have pursued. I therefore appeal to the noble lord at the head of the Government to rectify what I may almost call the tortuous policy of the Foreign-office, and to give, at the earliest moment, the most complete and most ample information to the House of Commons. (Cheers.) Mr. LAYARD—I think the lion. gentleman has wasted a good deal of virtuous indignation. (Cries of No, no.) There is no desire on the part of the Government either to avoid discussion or to waste time in this matter. The hon. gentleman has filled the office which I have the honour to fill at present, and ought to be aware that there is great diffi culty in publishing a complete set of papers upon transac tions of this kind. In the first place, the hon. gentleman knows we cannot lay on the table of the house documents communicated by foreign Powers without first consulting them as to whether or not they wish them to be published. That is a matter of courtesy, and it is a rule which is always followed. I can only say that I saw the printer to-day, and also communicated with the clerks at the Foreign office. The other night I stated that I hoped these papers would be speedily produced, and I then hoped that they would be produced next week, but they are so voluminous that I am assured this is impossible if we wish to present the papers in a perfect form. I have no doubt if the house desires to have them in instalments portions can be furnished, but I doubt whether the house will thus obtain the exact infor mation which it desires. I can assure the house that every possible speed shall be used in expediting the production of the papers. They shall be laid on the table at the very earliest moment—l cannot give any other answer. But I assure the house there is no intention on the part of the Go vernment to retard even by one day the publication of the documents. Mr. DISRAELI—I think we have not yet received a satisfactory answer on the part of the Government. The affeirs of Germany and Denmark were of so grave a chars ter some time ago that it might have been a question for the Government whether they should not have advised the Sovereign to assemble Parliament at an earlier period. (Cheers.) That was the feeling of men of very different political opinions. But there are, I know, very grave reasons which might operate to restrain the Government from giving that advice, except under most urgent circumstances. How ever, if Parliament were not summoned earlier than usual, I think her Majesty's Government were bound the moment it assembled—(cheers) —to place in our hands the documents necessary to form an opinion on this all engrossing and all important subject,—a subject upon which the question of peace or war, or even of a general war, may ultimately have to be decided, and with regard to which at this moment we are completely in the dark. The technical answer of the Under-Secretary is most unsatisfactory. He tells us he went to the printer to-day. Well, but the Under-Secretary ought to have gone to the printer long before; ho ought to have gone every day and, it necessary, every hour before Parlia ment met to the printer for these papers. (Cheers and laughter.) He ought to have insisted on these papers being ready to present to Parliament the first night, I took occasion on the opening day to notice the strange omission from the Royal Speech of any promise that papers on the subject of Germany and Denmark would be produced. What was the answer of the noble lord ? He said his ob ject was that the Speech should nog be too long. (A laugh.) Yet he found space to insert in that Speech a promise that the papers respecting Japan—no doubt, an interesting and important subject, but conti asted with the European ques • tien of Germany and Denmark, a matter of comparatively trifling importance—should be forthcoming. There was room for that in the Speech. But when I pressed the noble lord for these papers, ho treated the matter with derision, and said, "You shall have papers; you shall have plenty of them, and I hope hon. members will study them. I have read a good many of them (said the noble lord) and I have got a surfeit of them." It was clear to me at that time that her Majesty's Government had no settled determination to present these papers to Parliament—(cheers)— and, coup ling the tone of his address with the omission of any pro mise of the documents in the Royal Speech, I must say the non-production of papers on such an important subject was a great inadvertence, and one which I think it would be difficult to vindicate. Practically, I take it for granted that the mass of these papers, either in manuscript or in proof sheets, are now prepared, and that permis sion to print them has been obtainefi from all the foreign Powers. That is a mere mechanical affair. The printer of the Foreign-office was rubbed up to-ddy for the first time, and, frightened at the mass of documents lefore him, no doubt made tho same sort of calculation which '..` 16 would have done if an ordinary thick pamphlet on the Schleswig-Holstein question—and we have seen many of them—were brought to him. He said they would require three weeks to print. But if you have all the materials ready, and the credit of the Foreign-office be at stake, you must endeavour to compensate for former laches by dis tributing these documents into the hands of several printers—(hear, hear)—and I will be bound to say, with proper diligence, that you (eight to produce these papers to Parliament in eight and forty hours. The house ought to insist on these papers being placed in their hands in 48 hours, or otherwise to relinquish the fulfilment of their highest duty. (Hear, hear,) Lord PALMERSTON said—Sir, I think that the right hon. gentleman is taking a leaf out of the book of the Prus sian and Austrian Governments, who called on Denmark to revoke a constitution in 48 hours, when that could only be constitutionally accomplished by the instrumentality of a parliament not then assembled. (Laughter.) I can assure the right hon gentleman—ho can believe me or not as he likes—(a laugh)—l took it so much as a matter of course that papers on so important a matter as Denmark and Ger many must necessarily be presented to Parliament, that it was totally unnecessary to mention them in the speech-4f it was an omission I am sorry for it. So far as its arising from any doubt whether the papers should or should not be presented, I might as well have doubted my own existence as the obligation of the Government to lay them before Par liament, There was no doubt about it. The hon. gentle man is perhaps not quite so well aware as the hon. member f r Horsham of the labour of preparing an accurate print of a vast mass of documents ; it is not only the printing of them, but they must be looked over after by a competent person to see that there are no mistakes of the press and that all has been accurately done. The Under Secretary stated to the house that if it is desired these documents may be produced in parts, and perhaps this might be the most convenient manner ; and if hon. members desire they may have Part I. and then Part ll.—(a laugh)—before they come to the matter they intend to discuss ; but no delay shall take place in laying before the house the whole of the fer ence by ilia country in the civil war now raging in China was unnecessary and impolitic. (Hear, hear.) ELECTION PETITIONS. Mr. TIUNT gave notice that he would move for leave to bring in a bill to amend the :aw relating to election pea- tions. FOG SIGNALS. Mr. DAWSON asked the Prtsident of the Board of Trade, whether, in consequence of the numerous marine disasters that have taken place at the entrance of the Gulf of St. Lawrence, any plans for the erection of powerful fog signals in the vicinity of Cape Race,Newfoundland, had yet been approved of by the Board of Trade; and whether any expectation may be held out that such precautionary beacons may be in early operation. Mr. M. GIBSON said that the Trinity Corporation had for some time been anxious to establish fog signals at Cape Race, but up to the present time had failed in discovering any invention by which sound could he conveyed from land to vessels at a certain distance at sea that would be avail- Able. THE RUMOURED DISSATISFACTION AT COPENHAGEN. In reply to Mr. PEACOCKE, Lord PALMERSTON said ho had seen a s tatenunt n" the papers that great dissatisfaction p revailed in Col - P hagen as to the retreat of the Danish troops from Dane wirke ; and although the Government had no official in formation on the subject, there was no doubt tha inhabitants of Copenhagen felt great dissatisfaction in regard to the event in question. " Gentlemen at home at ease" no doubt might feel dissatis fied with the conduct of those who were suddenly called to decide on an emergency. It was not for this country to decide on the propriety of the ground which induced the Danish general to retire from the Danewirke. THE ALEXANDRA AND ALABAMA. Mr. PEACOCKE asked tho. Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, w hether the Government would lay upon the table of the hous e copies of their correspondence with the Government of the United States, and more especially that portion of it relating to the case of the Alexandra, and the claim by the United States Government for compensation for the losses inflicted by the Alabama and other Con federate cruisers ? !vir. LAYARD said as regarded the Alexandra, as the c ase of that vessel was under judicial consideration, it would not be advisable to lay any documents relative to the samo on the table. With reference to the Alabama, papers had already been laid on the table. SALMON FISHERIES. of it ; duce it. -MO was there no verbal demand ? Lord R. CECIL-- '-al Cemmunioation in that sense Mr. LA.YARD—No vero._ was ever held. agreed to. The motion for adjournment was ultimate., KAGOSIMA. Mr. BUXTON moved the following resolution : —" That this house, while only imputing to Admiral Kuper a misconception of the duty imposed on him, deeply regrets the burning of the town of Kagosima, as being contrary to those usages of war which prevail among civilised nations, and to which it is the duty and policy of this country to adhere." In the course of a long address he cited several authorities on international law to show that the bombardment of Kagosima was directly opposed to the dictum of the moat celebrated writers on maritime law. Mr. AYTOUN, in seconding the motion, condemned the arrogance of the English merchants and residents in Japan as having been the real cause of enmity felt towards us by the natives. Mr. LONGFIELD proposed, as an amendment, to omit from Mr. Buxton's resolution the words " while only im puting to Admiral Kuper a misconception of the duty im posed on him." His object was to free a gallant and meri torious officer from the grave imputation that was sootht to be cast upon him by the terms of the resolution. He con tended that Admiral Kuper had done no more than execute the commands with which he was entrusted, and there had been no cold-blooded cruelty, misconception of orders, or terrible mistake on his part. He understood his instructions well. He obeyed the orders that were given him, The measures he concerted were within both the letter and the spirit of his instructions ; and what he conceived prudently ho had executed bravely. The orders given to him by Colonel Neale, her Majesty's representative in Japan, in accordance with instructions received from the Foreign office, included the burning of the town of Kagosima and the palace of Prince Satsuma, which he performed with the knowledge and in the presence of Colonel Neale himself, who, having given the orders, knew the consequences, and expressed his satisfaction at the result. The resolution of Mr. Buxton was nothing else than an attempt to offer up Admiral Kuper as a scapegoat to save the Government from the censure of the house. Sir J. HAY seconded the amendment, and said that the imputation thrown upon Admiral Kuper did no credit either to the Government or those persons who had thus assailed a brave and worthy man, The duty he had executed was Mr. DUTTON asked the Secretary of State for the Hone D2pertment whether it was his intention to introduce any bill an ending the Salmon Fisheries (England) Act of 1861, and giving extended powers for the preservation of salmon in fresh and tidal waters ? Sir G. GREY said the subject was being investigated by a commission. DANISH PAPERS. In reply to Lord It. CECIL, Mr. LAYARD said that these papers would not be ready for ,presentation to Parliament before three weeks. (Oh, oh,) SCHLESWIG-HOLSTEIN. Mr, D'ISRAELI—I wish to make an inquiry of the noble lord the First Minister with respect to an answer which he gave yesterday, which has occasioned some perplexity. It was with reference to an inquiry as to whether the Court of Berlin had notified to our Government that in consequence of the war between Prussia and Denmark it no longer held itself bound by the Treaty of 1852. The noble lord, as I understood him, seemed to say that no such communica tion had been received by our Government from the Court of Berlin ; but at the same time he expressed the opinion of the Government upon such a course of conduct had it been pursued by the Prussian Government. The noble lord said that he should look upon such a proposition as most unjust and monstrous. (An hon. member—" Prepos terous.") Preposterous—a word of nearly the same sig nificance. The question asked yesterday was not as to the morality of that conduct, but as to its legality. Having heard the noble lord's opinion of such possible conduct, I wish to know whether he is of opinion, or whether we are to conclude that her Majesty's Government are of opinion, that, in consequence of the war between Prussia and Den mark, Prussia may b 3 relieved from the undertakings which by the Treaty of 1852 she has entered into with this coun try, and with the other signatories of the treaty, or whether those engagements on the part of Prussia are not totally independent of any relations which may subsist between Prussia. and Denmark. (Hear, hear.) There is another matter referring almost to the same subject, and certainly to the answer given by the noble lord yesterday, on which I should like to have some information. The noble lord seemed in that answer to intimate that the German Powers had announced that, when the invasion of the Duchies had been completed they should be prepared to evacuate those Duchies as soon as all the causes—the avowed causes—for which the invasion had taken place were removed and their object effected. What I wish to know from her Majesty's Government, as a second inquiry, whether before the inva sion of the Danish Duchies took place, an event of which no notice was given to the world, her Majesty's Govern• moat obtained from the Governments of Austria and Prus sia any undertaking that when these Duchies had been in vaded and occupied, if the avowed objects of the invasion were obtained, they would restore the Duchies to the King of Denmark. (Hear, hear.) Lord PALMERSTON—I think that what I stated—at all events, what I meant to state, yesterday was, that a notion had been broached in Germany and in some quarters at Berlin that if a state of war could be established between Prussia and Austria and Denmark, that would releasethose two Powers from the engagement of the Treaty of 1852. I stated my opinion upon that point, but I meant to say, or to imply, that that was not the doctrine upon which Austria and Prussia at present take their stand, inasmuch as they have declared, by that paper which was read here and in the other House of Parliament, that they acknowledge the binding nature of the Treaty of 1852, and adhere to the intention of maintaining the integrity of the Danish monarchy, and therefore they cannot contend that their hostilities with Denmark have released them from the en gagements of that treaty. But I entirely concur with the view which I infer that the right hon. gentleman takes that, even if that condition of things existed be tween Denmark and the two Powers which could be ra tionally called war, and which if the engagement had been contracted simply between these two Powers and Denmark might and would have put an end to that treaty, still the Treaty of 1552 was not a treaty contracted simply between Austria and Prussia, on the one hand, and Denmark on the other— (hear)—but was an engagement which they entered into, in common with the other great Powers who signed and the Powers and States who acceded to that treaty, and that they could not be relieved from that common engage ment by anything which may take place between them separately and Denmark. That opinion I found not simply upon the reason of the thing. There is a case precisely in point. The five Powers entered into a treaty with Turkey by which they agreed to respect the neutrality of the Bos phorus and the Dardanelles, and that no ships of war of any of the Powers should enter thoso straits without the speecial permission of the Porte, and then cnly a certain number at a time. Tho ratifications of that treaty were exchanged with Turkey, and not among all the Powers who signed it, just is in the case of the Treaty of 1352 the ratifications were exchanged in London between each of the Powers and Denmark, and the Powers did not go through the unnecessary form of exchanging ratifications with each other. When the British fleet entered the Dar danellee at the commencement of the Russian war, Austria protested against that act as a violation of the common en gagement which by the treaty regulating the passage of the Dardanelles was taken by all the Pow, rs. An answer was given, which in our opinion was sufficient ; but that proved that in the opinion bf Austria herself a general engagement taken by many Powers towards one was binding upon all 7 11 ° thole it, not simply between each and the party con erned, but as with respect to the allies with whom that engagement was t "ken. THE TOWNLEY CASE. In reply to Sir F, KELLY. Sir G. GREY Stated that the papers connected with this Case, inc lu ' lin g the certificates of the borough magistrates and medical men upon which Townley had been removed to the lunatic a sylum, Would be in the hands of members before he moved the second reading t of the bill which he had intro d uce d the previous nigh SCHLESW I G - HOLSTEIN. Mr. i' ISR AE Ll—ln continuati on of the question put tee the nubie lord; I wish to ask wh ether what was callen a despatch the other ntglet—a document which, 1 believe,yweivthidedneeiswioans considered very a mbi g uous, and was tre ated by the Secretary of State—is the last and c al Government possess of the intention of Austria and Prussia the to uphold the Treaty of 18.52 ? I would also take th e li berty of reminding the noble lord that he has omitted to answer my:second question. Lord PALMERSTON—I had just discovered my unin tentional omission to answer the last question of the right hon. gentleman, and was about to do so. The despatch alluded to is certainly the last official communication re ceived by the - aevernmeut ; but I consider that it is com plete in regard to the recognition of the Treaty of 1852 and the maintenance of the integrity of the Danish. Monarchy. 'We certainly have no guarantee on the part of Austria and Prussia that they will evacuate Schleswig when the Constitution is revoked ; but we have the assurance in our own minds that they are two Powers which must think their character for good faith of some value. The ground, and the only ground, on which I apprehend they have entered Schleswig and occupied it, as a material guarantee, was to obtain the revocation of the Constitution of November, as far as it ;relates to Schleswig. And, therefore, I think, they will find, when that demand has been complied with, that they are bound by honour and good faith to give up that occupation which they undertook simply for the pur pose of obtaining - that revocation. ASH-WEDNESDAY. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Lord PALMERSTON, again rising, said--It is usual for this house on 'Ash -Wednesday to meet at two o'clock, in stead of at the usual time, I understand, however, that there is really no business for to-morrow, the Iron. and gallant member for the Queen's County having postponed, or consented to postpone, the motion of which hole: id given notice. It will, therefore, I think, be wore conveni put that imposed upon him by the barbarous orders of the Foreign Office, and the attack on Kagosima, following upon the affair in Siam last year, was but the culminating point of the policy which the Government had of late adopted in the East. p apere. Lord J. MANNERS said—l can quite believe the noble lord that there will be no unnecessary delay for the future in the course of delivery of these papers; but, certainly, a great and unnecessary delay had occurred in the presentation of the papers up to the present time. It was impossible to listen to what fell on a former occasion and not see that however necessary it may be for the noble lord opposite to lay these papers on the table at the :fame time there was not that energy to lay these papers before the house that was to be expected in a matter of such vital importance. (Hear, hear.) No doubt these papers have been kept back in the Foreign Office, and have not been brought forward in the state of preparation they should have been. (Hear, hear.) I presume now we shall have these papers brought before us in a much less time than that in which they were promised ten minutes ago, and I hope we shall not be disappointed. (Hear, hear.) Mr. HENNESSY said he asked the Government two nights ago whether the papers promised as to Poland would contain the despatch from Earl Russell to Prince Gortscha koff, to which great importance was attached just now at Berlin and - Vienna for its bearing on the Danish question. It was sent in the autumn, recalled by telegraph, altered, and re-sent , When that des patch arrived it was understood that Count Rechberg and M. Bismark called attention to the declaration made by Earl Russell in his speech at Blair gowrie, to the effect that the dominion of Russia over Po land was forfeited by reason of the non-compliance of Rus sia with the treaty of Vienna; and the Germ an P owersnow state that that princip: e would in some degree apply to the case of Denmark. The y say that the treaty of London had not been fulfilled by De nmark, and therefore the treats of London was void. No wit was very important to get that despatch, He wished to ask whether the Government would ing have been in dealing with the Government of Japan. (Cheers.) Admiral WALCOTT supported the amendment, and ex pressed an opinion that the papers on the subject justified him in declaring that no Mame could be imputed to Admi ral Kuper. Lord R. MONTAGU argued that the Government had no course before them but to enforce the demand for redress for the murders and acts of violence committed by the Japanese on flririEh subject& Sir F. CROSSLEY lamented the great loss of life that pad ensued from the bombardment of Kagosima, and con - • • etheetion of such a high-handed policy in our "Wiled I" e w ith Eastern nations. The time had communicat;e- 'ne Foreign-office to endeavour to arrived when it behovea •t resorting to these uphold the honour of the country, 'crimpy... wholesale sacrifices of human life. Mr. LIDDELL deprecated the system of hastily con cluding treaties, under the guns of our ships, with nations of whose habits, customs, and laws we had no knowledge. How we could expect a treaty to be faithfully observed which had been obtained under such circumstances passed his com prehension. Our proceedings in Japan had _been marked by a violence that was deeply to be deplored, and he held that the treaty made with that country ought to be revised, if possible, in conjunction with those who were acquainted with the laws and customs of Japan. Mr. KrNGLAKE reminded the house that when the official account of the bombardment of Kagosima reached England, Earl Russell at once wrote a dispatch to Colonel Neale, expressive of the regret he felt at the destruction of that town. He did not believe that the noble earl had given an imperative order to destroy the residence of the Prince of Satsuma, whether it were situated on a bare hill or in a populous city; but ho hesitated not to say that our treaties had broken up the political system of the state in Japan. In the present state of their information with regard tp the details of the late e ngagement at Kagosima, ho thought it would be unjust to throw any blame or seeming blame upon Admiral Kuper. Mr. LAYARD said no one who had attended to his hon. friend the member for Maidstone would be surprised that he considered it his duty to submit to the house the question which he that evening br ou g ht bef ore them. (Hear.) His I hon. friend's well-known sympathy with the human race __:ev one who knew him would a gree in acknowledging, " be ready to do hire justice in feeling that he and all wets.-- , n e a uestion b e f ore th e H ouse o f Com he was right in bring talons. (Hear, hear',) If he could not ag re e in all that his hon, friend had said, it was net sleet he could not agree the principles which he had laid down, but in tine manner in which he had tried to establish his facts. He entirely agreed with his hon. friend that it was most deplorable and deeply to be regretted that a town should be bombarded and laid in ruins, as Kagosima was reported to 4.aye bean. (Hear, hear.) He agreed with him, that nothing but the greatest, the west extreme provocation could justify such a course ; and ho entirely agreed with him that it was a ter rible sight id witness the condition to which the inhabi tants were reduced, end upon those matters there was no difference of feeling and opinion between himself and his hen. friend, who. ho was sure, would not charge him with want of sympathy with Eastern nations. He (Mr. Layard) was known to have expressed his regret ore several occa sions at the manner in which those races had been treated. Now, such being the general principles laid down, let him see whether they applied to the present instance. But be fore he did so he must say ho could not concur in the blame cast upon so gallant and meritorious an officer as Admiral Kuper. (Hear, hear.) And here he must say that it had been too much the habit of some parties in this country to blame officers in their absence for alleged transactions before inquiry had taken place to ascertain whether the charges were correct. (Hear, hear.) He must say that he did not think Admiral Kuper could be charged with shedding blood wantonly; and he must further say of that gallant officer that a more humans man could not be than he had always shown himself to be. (Hear, hear.) The hoe, member here proceeded to draw a sketch of the relations of this country with Japan previous to the occurrence in ques tion. This country wee not the first, he said, to enter into a treaty with Japan. An American commodore was the first, and having made the American treaty, Russia then stepped in and made a treaty with the Japanese on her own account. Was it, then, matter of surprise—seeing that Ame rica and Russia, two great commercial nations, had made treaties to advance their commercial interests, and thus opened up new markets for themselves—that England, on her part, followed the example, and with a view of availing herself of the new markets, made a treaty:of commerce with the Japanese. (Hear, hear.) They were condemned for, and charged with, having forced a treaty upon the Japanese, which the authorities of Japan, it was said, had no power to make. They understood the Tycoon to be the head autho rity of Japan at the time, and they entered into the treaty with him. They ascertained that there were three parties in Japan at the time, and that a great part of the natives were ill-treated and kept in a state of slavery by the Daimios. Of the three parties one of them, he understood, was known by the name of " Toree"—(laughter)—and that party were roost hostile in their acts and feelings against foreigners, particularly against the Eoglish. Another of those parties was called " Liberal 'Trees"—(laughter)—and the third were known as the party who were for keeping to themselves all the good places, and sticking to them. (Great laughter.) There was also a party aho were for the maintenance of the "connexion between Church and State." (Laughter.) Much outrage and injustice had been committed against foreigners, particularly those from England, and the re monstrances of the Government against thoseoutrageous ex cesses ware not attended to. It had been said that the Bri tish Government was unfriendly to and did not like the Japanese. Now, so far from that being the case, they had in this country made great concessions to the Japanese, and not only did they do so themselves, but they actually in duced other Powers to make concessions to them, (Hear, hear.) He could assure the house that in Mr. Richardson's case neither be nor his friends were in fault. He (Mr. Layard) was not in the habit of defending the excesses of his countrymen; and he was sorry to say that they were often guilty of excesses that no man ought to defend. (Hear, hear.) In Mr. Ed hardson'e case that was not so. A most unprovoked murder had been committed on that gentleman and other members of his party by a number of men who bed been set on to commit it by their leaders. Mr. Richard son and his party were proceeding quietly along a high road that was open to them by treaty, and were most wantonly and without any provocation whatever attacked. Murder was committed, and the party, when remonstrated with, tried to excuse themselves by saying that it was a "casual" murder. He had never before heard of a casual murder. A more deliberate murder, ho repeated, never was com mitted. The English Government remonstrated, and de manded satisfaction, but their remonstrances were disre warded, and their demand was treated with contempt. Was it then to be a matter of surprise that they insisted upon proper redress being given by the Japanese Government for such an outrage ? (flear,) The Government made demands upon the Tycoon Government and also upon Satsuma. In the first place they demanded £1C,0,000 from the Japanese Government—not for the murder, but for allowing the mur der on a road which was open by treaty, on a road on which it was their bounden duty to protect life. (Hear.) That was entirely irrespective of the murder. Then they had de manded from the person who committed the murder what they considered to he a fair sum to be divided amongst those who were sufferers. That sum. was £25,000. Some might think that sum too much, others might consider it too little. Mr. Richardson, who was murdered, was a wealthy mer chant, and his death was a serious blow to his family. He did not, therefore, consider that the sum was an unreason able one. The other persons concerned were merchants in a good position in life, and for them the sum demanded he could not consider was too much. Besides that, her Ma jesty's Govet nment asked for the execution of those who had been concerned in the affair. Now, it had been stated that evening as a matter of tact, that her Majesty's Government had asked for the execution of Satsuma's father. So far from that being the case, they had stated over and over again that nothing of the sort was done. In the first place, they did not know that it was Satsuma's father who had committed the murder. Their first impression was that it was his uncle. (Laughter.) They asked for the trial and punishment of the retainers of the chief who had committed the act. If hon. gentlemen would refer to page 94 of the Blue-book they would find that tIA Government demanded the speedy arrest and bringing to capital punishment the men among the Prince's retinue, and not the Princo himself. Satsuma had stated that no order had been given for this attack. If no order had been given them surely the Govern ment had a tight to ask for the punishment of those who had committed so grave an offence without an order, and that was all they did ask for. (Hear, hear.) He thought it would be admitted that those demands, under the eircum stances, were perfectly just ; but if they had accepted the excuse of the Tycoon, that Satsuma was beyond his power, and that he had no control over his retainers, the Daimios, under the shelter of that excuse, would have committed all sorts of outrages. If, on the other hand, they had exacted the punishment of the Daimios alone, in all future cases the Tycoon would have said that the crimes had been perpe trated by the Daimios, and that they alone we re responsible. So that the Government had no alternative but to make a double demand, and he thought that was the right course to pursue. Was the English Government alone amongst those who had punished the Dainties for outrages against foreigners ? If hon. gentlemen would turn to the Blue book they would find that joint representations had been made by the English, French, Mi nisters, that tle y held a Prince who had fired upou a ship responsible for that act, and would proceed to punish it if the injury were not redressed. They did punish him by Dutch, and American destroying his batteries and forts. Now, Admiral Kuper, on receiving his instructions, proceeded to cart y them out. It had been stated that the instructions of her Majesty's G ov ernment were not sufficiently explicit, and that it was on that account that the admiral committed the act ho id, and that consequently the responsibility must fall upon d the Government. Now, when the instructions were sent out, her Majesty'a Government had not the slightest knowledge of the palace in which Satsuma dwelt, or of its position. They had heard that he had a palace near the shore, that he was a powerful Prince, having vessels of his own, and that the fleet could get to those vessels and carry them off. The Government gave instructions to the admiral founded upon this imperfect knowledge. Eearl Russell, in his instructions, stated that he had heard that Satsuma's territory was a peninsula, but that the admiral would be able to form a bet ter judgment whether it would bo possible to tako his port. Lord STANLEY—I quite understand the reluctance 0 my hon. and gallant friend to pass any censure on persons who, whether in a civil or military capacity, are perform ing a very responsible duty at a groat distance from home, and labouring under disadvantages in respect to receiving instructions. I share in that feeling, and I shall be glad if I hear from the hon. gentleman the member for Southwark (Mr. Layard) a better defence for these proceedings than appears in the papers which have been laid before us. Ido not intend to go again over the ground covered by the speech of tho hon. member for Maidstone ; but I will call ' the attention of the house to one or two points, and I will do so in order that an answer may be given by the Under- Secretary. Ido not understand what justification can be alleged for the double claim made by her Majesty's Go vernment—first, the dales made on the Tycoon ; and next, that made on the Prince of Satsuma. I could understand either if the other were not put forward. (Hear, hear). I could understand your treating the Prince as entirely inde pendent, and then your course might be obvious, You might have applied to the Tycoon in the first instance, and if he replied, "I cannot punish the Prince of Satsuma," you might have said, " Then we give you fair notice that we shall take the affair out of your hands and punish him ourselves." But if the Prince of Satsuma is re sponsible for the murder, then this demand of £lOO,OOO from the Tycoon, who is not responsible, who did not order the murder, and could not have prevented it, is simply 'unjustifiable. (Hear, hear.) On the other hand, if the Prince of Satsuma is to be treated as a subject, no doubt we have a right to come on the Government of Japan for compensation; but then we ought to leave it to the Government to settle matters with the Daimio. (Hear, hear.) But the responsibility of the one, from the nature of the cae e, seems to exclude the responsibility of the other, and therefore those who have conducted the negotiations on the part of this country have put us in the wrong. It also appears to me that the amount of the demand is altoge ther exorbitant and excessive, No doubt it is very painful end difficult to have to value human life; but one can only j u elje of what would be done if such a case occurred in Europe, If the murder of a British subject took place un der anything like similar circumstances in a European country, you would insist on the punishment of the offen der, and demand compeneatien ; but it appears to me that you would not do anything analogous to what you have done in this case by demanding £lOO,OOO from the Tycoon, who was not responsible for the murder, and making a further demand of £25,000 of the Prince of Satsuma, whom you hold to have been responsible. (Hear.) There is ano ther point to which I think the house ought to look. The hon. member for Maidstone spoke of the inhumanity of those proceedings. I look at the matter in another way, and say that their impolicy is greater than their inhu manity. (Hear.) You know the Tycoon is in great diffi culty between the Daimios and the foreign merchants and diplomatists. You have, then, to deal with a Government which may be taken to be neutral between the two ; you have the great chiefs, who undoubtedly are hostile to foreigners; and, lastly, yon have the people, of whom we we do not know whether or not they share the preju dice of the chiefs against foreigners, but who, at all events, have nothing to lose by the country being open to foreigners, and may have a great deal to gain. I think it clear, then, that your policy ought to be to lesson the in fluence of the Daimios on the people, and to conciliate the latter. (Hear, hear.) lam afraid your proceedings in reference to this murder will have a contrary effect. All they will know about the affair is that the foreigners have had a quarrel with the chiefs end do,troyed a town. That will place the Daimios in the position of being the natural protectors of the people, whereas your object ought to be to separate those two classes, and to show the natives that though you may take a part against the chiefs, you do so in the interest of the people. (Hear, hear.) lam afraid it will be a long time bolore the impression created in the minds of the people by those proceedings will be obliterated. I also think it is very questionable whether what you have done will have very much effect on the chiefs. I do not say anything as to the destruction of batteries, because as you treated the Prince of Satsuma as an independent per son no objection could be taken to your destroying his forts ; but when your doing that involved the destruction of a town, it is another matter. I do not expect that much moral effect will be produced on the Daimios by such an opera tion as that. It reminds me of the story of an Irish ab sentee landlord whose agent sent him over a threatening letter which he had received. The landlord, in reply, said " Tell those fellows they are great fools if they think that by shooting you they will intimidate me." (Much laughter.) I very much fear that the same is the case with the Daimios. They are not likely to be intimidated by punishments which fall on the people. (Hear, hear.) You will not frighten the class on whom you wish to make an effect, but you will make enemies of the class whom you want to have your friends. (Haar, hear.) In these same papers I see a trams action, of the same date, which bears on this case. It seems that in October of last year there was a good deal of anxiety felt among the traders because the trade in silk was falling off. What was the reason of this falling off? Col. Neale, writing to the Japanese Minister, says : " The matter respecting the restricted arrivals of silk being now well known to be caused by no accident or want of the material, but by a systematic arrangement of a few of the principal silk dealers, or monopolisers, at Yeddo ; great un easiness and alarm prevail among the mercantile community of Yokohama." Upon that assumption, because those dealers in silk at Yeddo aro doing that which dealers in Manchester and Liverpool sometimes do—because they are holding back produce for high prices—(hear, hear)—our representative writes a very peremptory letter, and the Japanese Govern ment is called upon to explain. (Hear, hear.) That is not the way you would act towards any European Government. That letter throws light upon whatever may be doubtful in other transactions, and shows what !our feelings and hear- The Government did not even know that there was a large . 1 tish fl t • ----- ee in tlaose waters which brought recent troubles fo - ' '' ' recollect the eircuna town there. (Laughter.) He was at a loss to understand 1 a peaceful conclusion, (Cheers.) '1 his was the recommen- this incident. But the house must recollee that action the town was set on ITre arld----we dolly There was why hon. gentlemen laughed. He repeated that in England danon of the - • rep. esentative of a power which followed the stanees under which the action took plac . t - übled there was no knowledge of that town. The fleet arrived ' firing in a " edpolicy rerommended by the hon. member for Northumber• a violent gale. The ships wore hen You bay there on the 11th, and cast anchor at thetentrance oi the land. " That Minister's house was burned, and no notice taken Hee, It is one thing to fire at an object w .8 _ ver y port., Next day they went further and anchored before the of the matter by the authorities, and now he was compelled your gun upon a fixed platform, as on shore; it u l i : i ' ll ' it town. What was the first thing the Japanese did ? They to admit that the American policy was a false one, and that different thing to fire. at an object when year gun it h ips invited Admiral Kuper and Colonel Neale to go on shore to ' went it shifts invited tuns the only one by which peaceful ship rolling in the waves, when at every in not the Point at conduct negotiations with them. Many gentlemen who had ° relations . could be established with Japan. (General a p- its position, and when the aim you take is . a violent great confidence in the Japanese might think that they to probation,) Were the to do as the Dutch did ? They gro- which the shot strikes. When in addition action, 1 think ought to have done so ; but Admiral Kuper and Colonel yelled on their bellies. Did they prosper? No, their posi- storm they had the smoke and heat of that the allot Neale thought they had better not run any risk of being led tion became so intolerable that they were obliged to give up the house will see it was impossible to be sure he 0 a. A. , into a trap, and very wisely declined the invitation. (Hear.) their trade' e (Hear.) Our agents were the beetjudges of would not go over the batteries and fall into t tsy Probability the Tore! On the following day a person calling himself a chief with what should be done. Our trade, in consequence of the my hon. friend has stated, in all human pr t heir his retainers, approached Admiral Kuper's ship and asked course was • ' • d notice to qu it . adopted rapidly increasing, and of the £7,000,000 population of that town had receive welch to,be allowed to come on board. There could not be a moral and • the houses 'enht that these persons, having little knowledge of the ar- more invested in mercantile Pursuits in Japan, more habitations, and very few of them were in at Jed ° estions arose . . nee. than half that amount was (Hear.,' A u attempt were burnt. We know that when qu of hostile ge rangements of ate . lenglieh man-of-war, thought they could had been made to interfere withßritish. the on silk trade, but in con- and other places it was recognised as a signthat the JaPa nea .' capture the ship by a coup kmain, and when the Japanese sequence of the firm re resentati of l Col.. Neale the Go- tentions on the part of the Governmentthetown, a nd there is official found that he was outwitted he became speechless, vernment removed the representations and went off with great rapidity. No doubt these were two lations with Japan were purely commercial,compain o d of. Our re- population quietly h disappeared .il from the was given t o tiro attempts to entrap the Bntieb. officers; the first to entrap to carry out tho views of the hon. gentleman (Mr. 13cr: was ho eveeoryleroeafson Kagosima,to hope a t n h d at th in a na t very i few were in their hous . e a. built _ the officers on shore, and the second to capture the ship. below the gangway. (Laughter.) If that hon. gentleman,g people th t 1 took 1 Towns inJapanare ht when econ agrationp ahe. is known tha t thew All this time the batteries were being manned. Colonel instead of making • • in Neale, finding that it was no nee to withhold any longer endeavour to impress moderation on his hearers, and advise islands are subject to frequent and severe earthatla ae '' ate . ordered Admiral Kuper to take possession of the ships them to give the Government credit for better ' intentions, people cannot, dare nonbuild their houses of soli d w ane) belonging to Satsuma, and , the Admiral did every- he would he much more useful. (Hear.) From what he rials, lest the shock of the earthquake should bring per, thing he could to carry out his instructions with the leest (Mr. Layard) knew of the East he believed that most of down. They are built of wood, of bamboos, as d ofP Wei the harshness. 4 statement had eppeaned in some of ' our difficulties there were created by the British traders, which yield to the oscillations of an earthquelee• Th e n eogi the papers which he regretted to find the hon, member for A host of traders rushed into every market, 'and they eon- pie in which our Legation was housed at the tim d ata Birmingham (Mr. Bright) had endorsed, that after captitr- sidered that the Government had nothing to de but to su - that murderous attack was made upon them h a ono fng the ships Admiral Kuper needlessly kepe them fora port them in their preposterous Ft te u P • •memberso f the Leg e-nneenes. -Le could not paper partitions, and when the __, wo w the Ja anese The truth long time under the eyes of p , was, agree . with-the terms of the motion, If the hon. gentleman were drawn up in one room they thought. therasetve° ear , that the admiral could not have taken the vessels out of the Admiral that withdrew the words casting au imputation on their assailants did ' through the 1' .... . esages from bay without passing under the fire of the batteries. feo , far Kuper, w e had no opportunity of defending himself, he titions, instead of windin g . along the tortuous Passe hat the from the admiral haying, kept the vessels Ruder the eyes of (Mr. Layard) would not oppose the motion, but ifwhich ' - d l a y then t ee on not he they were nen ma t e ly ea pelle . say then the japaneee in of'der to draw down their fire, he took them would move the previous question. (Hear, hear,) burning of th town was not the result of any . ,_, to e G ideon" be as far as possible to the opposite side of the bay. No sooner ' Sir J. ELPHINSTONE supported the a 'e mendment. the pa*' of Admiral Kuper, but was merely in begun ' were the vessels taken than the Japanese opened fire. He Mr. W. E. FORSTER believed, the destruction of that ' action 1' which was not brought on by us, but was . ee ,_ in did not deny that the Japanese had a perfect right to do so, city was intentional, and ventured to prophesy that - 'hen the Jp , and u on which the Admiral could:deo, but what he did deny wee, that it was the duty of the British t4e eoaPatione came trope the ether side the - int a of a h n o e n ee our and p of duty, refrain from entering . d tha t ott only feeling admiral tc allow himself to be fired upon without eetterieleg would be one of astonishment that we ',lad ever expected p tu e rnin the fire of the batteries. (Hear.) It is said that to de ver expecte it. If he had done sel l whet wontd have been the result ? anything else than what had be ened the next g day he shelled the castle, and it was his e' a ' si i o n, va -PP . The idea of shel- There would have been a ery throughout the whole of 4anan ling the Prince a ree'elence eO. The object was to teach the Daimio bunnyers°..eriece that our fleet had been defeated, our settlements would have at home, who ought `, known suggestedatitwould h the Minister een s that he and his retainers were not with impit andrst for o have kno s been plundered, and probably every foreigner ill the coon- I almost ire: possible to do that without burning the town. the lives of British subjects. It was proper . „, e , of ti la try would have been murdered. (Hear.) It was. then, the ' . me thought, however, the house should not endeavour to Admiral Kuper to direct his shells againat the e t ‘e e e'l ia ere clear duty of the admire' to return the fire. The he/Leanne apportion the blame, but content itself with a simple ex- Daimio, but that does not show that he directed leat v oa bar for Wakefield had stated t4qt 4 would have been inapos- p ress i on o f regret ; and he recommended Mr. Bunton to as- against what remained of the town ; and the v' , /We l ' ration or. siblo for Admiral Kuper to have returned the fire without sent to the amendment. which prevailed naturally spread the conflag raster p t t burning the town, and upon the high authority of that gel- Th e ATTORNEY-GENERAL d e f en d e d th e con d uc t had begun, and probably extended it over the !regret the that w seritireast ~r lent gentleman he was con t en t t o rest the etdinirill'a excul- o f th e Gov ern ment, and its political and military agents, in of the town. We are called upon to say petiole. It had been Said that shells ha d b een threw , i n t h e reference to th e unhappy calamity that had befallen the result. Well, Sir, we entirely concur with the . no ne formai'. e, town, but nothing was saidabout such a circumstance in the city of Kagosima. but it has been already expressed in the most a , the or! reports. nor was anything said about bombardment , w it h t he Mr , wHITESIDE attached the entire blame to the in the Speech of her Majesty's Conamissioners ' t eed Is d rer ted r . adopted a° ddlese a° re d of the e epond nety,when hells Were thrown in Foreign s ecretary, upon w h ose instructions the city had ing of the Session, and has been palace of Satsuma. On the first day no shell was thrown been bomba r ded. Th e ques ti on a t i ssue was , w h et h er t hi s the most formal manner by this house ih the a n house t . egG e into the town; on the contrary, the return o f th e fi re from country it se lf intended to practise those principles of hums- in reply to that Speech. It is not usual for ert h ' i p oil los De; the batteries led to the firing of the town. Teet Ilan. plem- nit y which it was ever so rea dy t o a d v i se a ll other na tions on repeating in a less formal manner that weear.) Ile-oe berg eoneider what a Japanese town really was. It was to adopt. If we maintained such acts as had been done in more formally expressed before. (Hear, e u ndraen t whi 3 built simply of thin laths and paper—very little timber this case our laurels would be tarni s hed, a nd in vain should fore, I say, reducing the motion by th e am b e agree d te t s ee indeed. Fires were constantly occurring in these towns, we represent ourselves to the world as the most humane has been moved, and which, no doubt, will eag .tion o f 0.. The people constantly lived in fear of life, and were always people on the face of the earth. is reduced to two points—regret at the con r'' t of tocolo isiiito ready to move, He had spoken with several officers on the Lord PALMERSTON—The right hon. and learned gen- town, and an opinion that the bombardment, _ . „,, 0 . c en t _ 0 subject, being anxious to ascertain th e t ru th on the point, tleman said that there was one point which had not been consistent with the usual practice of war s a y ad s ir l ll and he fetend that pme in Japanese towns:were the commonest adverted to by my lion, and learned friend—viz., the double ( arca- ot her nations. Having disposed of the regret by' ba a s Y av possible occurrences, The officials had four days' notice of demand which has been made in Japan. Now, Sir, it is un- entirely partake of it, and that this house notice t he o .s te ir the operations against them, and during that time they were necessary to travel over ground which was so ably gone formal manner expressed that feeling, I wituof totes' 1 e of preparing to attack the British fleet. If, therefore, the over by my hon. friend the Under Secretary, and my hon. point—the assertion that the bombardm sin tiol witja. people suffered injury, it was the duty of the officials to and learned friend the Attorney-General. But I must say, consistent with the practice of civilised nationt consi stent beets war. That assertion is not correet—it is no es m eieg eo , warn them to remove, and he had every reason to believe in the first place, that the treaty with Japan was in my they did so. It was possible that there was loss of life there. opinion a wise and useful arrangement. (Hear, hear.) I be- truth. There are innumerable instances of ter rted, a nd I .i s est e If so, no one more sincerely tteplored it than himself ; sieve I may appeal to the other side to bear me out in that bombarded. Some have been already men ti _ i „ as sieg '3, - but, at the same time, it would be some consolation to think (Hear, hoar.) It was concluded with the treaty-making a list of many others. History and records of e e ti o 0 1 0 _4 that the loss of life was very small indeed amongst the power of that country. Although there is a division of autho- show that the practice of bombarding toWtn assert t es ta r ee peaceable inhabitants. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Layard) rity in Japan, there being a spiritual chief, the Mikado, as is unfortunately not unusual. Therefore, to War o r a t ; had resided some time in a town which was peculiarly liable well as the Tycoon, yet there is no doubt whatever that the practice is inconsistent with the usual pract ice f t to th e ne cif' . to fires; he meant Constantinople. In that town there was Tycoon is the treaty-making and governing power, and civilised nations would be directly contrary _awe ° f ana a fire almost every month, consuming as many residences ae that was admitted by the Prince of Satsuma iu a converse- scribed as historical records. I lament theaprr.;lo,eoBl3:olo at Kagosima, although the area over which they extended Lion with Col. Neale, in which he said, "The Tycoon was Heed nations has been such ; I think it is desirable a s bsta ine . d, s t l ive was not so great, as the houses were higher. In Constan- to blame when he made that treaty for not having inserted not imitate it, and it is not our practice. w_l saa tab le :, t ee tinople a fire raged with extraordinary rapidity, destroying i n it a c l ause giving to Daimios exclusive possession of the it in the Russian war, as in the case of Yu` n . e ' a til w ee p many houses in the course of a few hours, and yet he never roads in which they might make their processions." (Hear, knew contained magazines of variou.s kind: eee fro:0 07;4 heard of a single loss of life by fire there. The people lived hear.) Well, that treaty has been in force now for several supply of the Russian army; but we abet ine u e , e t eeer ee ing Odessa, which was not a fortified town, se a °f this eotos;f in constant readiness to move, 'and loss of live from fire was years, we have appealed to it in cases in which we consi consequently hardly known. These considerations led him dered its provisions not duly carried out, and it has never would not be in accordance with the feelingic:the e re ti Y aso to hope that few lives of innocent persons were lost at been urged in reply that it was not binding because it had to attack an undefended town, even to deP, r est ii e oforae to stores which would be useful to him for ne s po sitt st iott Kagosima. No doubt there was a considerable loss of life not received the sanction of the Mikado. (Hear, hear.) amongst the retainers of the Daimio. They fought against Therefore, I dismiss altogether the doubts as to the bind- against us. Denying entirely the truth ot 1 : 11 t he P i l e to the British fleet, they manned their batteries, and they in g nature of the treaty as having been made only by the the bombardment of towns is at variance ev' er i feet v ree orate n consequently ran all the risks which men engaged in war Tycoon. I think no man can doubt that British subjects, of civilised nations in time of war, I am,! sepro ve, I bee r.) were bound to run, but of the quiet peaceable inhabitants both officials and private merchants, having been subjected agree that it is a practice of which we c li 7 afear , ,, te elf. and certainly are not disposed to follow• anten iee' h a ir he very much doubted whether any, or a very few, at all to repeated acts of outrage, attempted and perpetrated in Therefore, I cannot accept the truth of the . oh t est a sr iv ie events, met their death. On the second day it was neces- Japan, it would have been unbecoming, unfitting, and cri- Ido accept the meaning and spirit upon % t o. f r ie .e a bste , sary, according to the admiral's view, to destroy the palace urinal in the British Government to allow those outrages ment is made. (Hear.) I should hope my it , this a wil ielt of Satsuma. Could ho, after the destruction of the pro- tepees unpunished without demanding reparation or redress. be satisfied with the tone which has prevailed ero tica ne of party of the poor, leave the palace of the chief malefactor We should have been exposing our fellow-subjects in Japan, No one, I think, has maintained that it is r oe p aret t : o e untouched? He (Mr. Layard) thought not, and the admiral resorting thither under the stipulations of the treaty, to the ought to be followed to bombard towns fo r ..cora eatea tbe re• very properly threw shells into the palace. There was no murderous caprice of these Daimios and their retainers, destroying the houses and property of non .. 00 00 40 ' proof that shells went into the town. It might be assumed who, as my hon. friend stated, exercised such undisputed innocent persons but nobody can deny hat ael !oaf that they did, but there was not the slightest evidence of sway in the country that when they purchased a new sword suit of a conflict between attacking forces o utside ont. tes eera • the fact. The hon. gentleman the member for Maidstone and want to try the edge, they sally forth into the streets ing forces inside, it is one of those incidental eS sae lo T o n (Mr. Buxton), in the early part of his speech, said that he and cut down the first person they meet there. It was ne would call evidence in support of his vi ews , and h e (Mr. cessary, therefore, for the ascot' :y of • y ourfellow-subjects andwhich among the calamities attaching t e a tistie. ne are nlbe e IP' Layard) thought that he would have called witnesses of the honour of the country that satisfaction should be de- times. Therefore I hope my hon. friend aeo - is f o r el ~h ei oet some standing. The first was a picture in the Illustrated mended for these outrages. But then lam asked, " Why having obtained an admission of the PrinciPtion to could bea News, Now, he did not wish to say anything against that have you demanded satisfaction both from the Tycoon's contends, and not be disposed to press his In ° and it , ee t 0 as it would be surplusage to express regre,:eorabarcamea te e admirable paper. Those who were in the secret would en- Government and from the Daimio, by whose retainers contrary to historical fact to say that the • D as. 1 11 9 t ne . tertain doubts whether that paper had on board the Euryalus these particular outrages were committed ?" The fact was towns is not practised among civilized net t ° o to a l l e i, a correspondent who witnessed the town of Kagosima in this—there was a double default. (Hear.) The Tycoon's amendment is disposed of I should pro t e rsy , toe: oiog flames. Then another portion of evidence on which he Government were bound to give security to British subjects motion with the previous question ; bu t o ' L tio ectost , oicit relied was a statement which had appeared in the Aylesbury within the range of their authority. This outrage was com woad withdraw it, I think it would n o , top er 0 papers. Now, he had a great respect for the Aylesbury meuced within the range of their authority. It was commit- of termination of a discussion the tone o •4 3.sers e vor ds papers, but he could not take evidence second-hand from red upon the road called the Tokaido, which hed been ex must have been satisfactory to him. (`' site tho 2 , 4 ,0 5 their columns, the hon. gentleman himself not having seen pressly assigned for the use of British subjects, in order h the paper from which his information was derived, that they might take their exercise there without molesta- Mr. BUXTON expressed his desire, or e" , of oit e' regret which had fallen from the noble' a of° Mr. BUXTON—It was the statement of a sailor who was Lion. It was the duty of the Tycoon's Government, if they I l ib his motion. o sa , an eye-witness of what he described. knew that a body of the Daimio's retainers were going in this P re ' ) The house, however, dissented from t"- name, Mr. LAYARD—WeII, he should like to know the sailor's procession along the road on a given day, and if they knew a rtee"" - name, or what authority there was for the statement. In and expected that any meeting between the procession and uPen _ c oil. e the absence of that information he preferred to take the British subjects might lead to violence, I say it was their Lord PALMERSTON moved the pre 5 eare ee r The house then divided. The number we .. 5 statement of a British Admiral. (Hear, hear.) What he duty in such a case to have stationed guards upon the road .. .... 1 64 had now stated was a short history of what took place at in order to protect Europeans. (Hear, hear.) We are there- Ayes Kagosima. The house would now perhaps allow him for a fore justly entitled to require from the Tycoon's Government Noes ............. ant •• " few moments to call attention to the motion of his hon. a sum sufficient to operate as a fine upon them for not afford- Ma jor it y for the Governor, friend. As regarded Admiral Kuper's judgment there was ing proper protection to British subjects in a place in which The original motion therefore dropPe a e A eVS. ,to APPEAL IN CRIMINAL tee" s.a ew e , no wish on the part of the Government to cast blame upon our countrymen were entitled to be. (Hear.) We were also leave w • elei tlie him. On the contrary, it was the duty of the Govern- entitled to demand the punishment of the retainers who had On the motion of Sir F. KELLY. lin 0 0 0 ti of ment to srpport him, because he was entitled to support. committed the outrages. Butt he Tycoon's Government said troduce a bill providing a further aPPe s , nin istrah ° It was asked why the Government had not given him the "We are unable to afford this redress. These Daimios are and for the further amendment cf the sale same honorary distinctions which they had conferred upon so powerful, that they defy our authority. We cannot get criminal law. Colonel Neale. The distinctions given to Colonel Neale you satisfaction; if you want it you must go to the Daimio were not on account of what took place at Kagosima, but and get it yourself." Then we demanded, in the first place for the judgment and tact which he had displayed in satisfaction from the Government for their fault in not taking conducting most difficult negotiations. Why they were not those precautions which they might have taken, and which conferred upon Admiral Kuper was because there had been it was their duty to take ; and we demanded satisfaction from for a time a strong feeling in the country. (Hear, hear, the Daimio whose retainers committed the outrage by which from the Opposition benches.) Her Majesty's Government a British subject had so grievously suffered. And really, thought it only reasonable Admiral Kuper should be enabled when we are told by the hon. member who moved the amend . to give explanations, and he had no doubt some explana- ment that this was:a sort cf chance medley, a casual encoun tions would bo perfectly satisfactory. It would be unwise ter, which was below notice on the part of the British Go and ungenerous to pass such a resolution as this, which vernment, Ido not think we should have been justified, and would be tantamount to a vote of censure, before those ex- lam sure the nation would not have thought us justified, in planations could be received. He had no doubt about the holing the lives of British subjects so cheap. (Hear, hear,) explanations, and that it would be shown that Admiral Sir, I cannot compliment the hon, member upon the good Kuper would not have burnt down the town if he could have taste he showed in that part of his speech. (Hear.) Well, avoided it. Then it had been insinuated that her Majesty's then,satisfaction was demanded and satisfaction was granted Government had felt no regret at this occurrence. The first by the Tycoon's Government, who consented to pay the sum think they did on hearing the news was to write a despatch we required. But Prince Satsuma refused. Were we in which they expressed their regret. That regret had been to submit to his refusal, or compel him to give us that embodied in the Queen's Speech, had been re-echoed by the redress to which we were so justly entitled ? I say that we house, and deeply felt throughout the country. _Not only should have failed in our duty if we had not resorted to the had they expressed regret, but her Majesty's Government means which were at our disposal for the purpose of come had done everything they could to prevent a recurrence of pelting this brutal Daimio to give us satisfaction for the purpose such disasters. (The hon. gentleman read extracts from outrage. (Hear , hear.) It was not simply for the the despatches in proof of the assertion.) Not only had her of punishing him — it was for the purpose of deterring others Majesty's Government and the house expressed their regret from these murders, and were so frequently attempted, and for what had occurred, but every precaution had been taken which had in some cases unfortunately been actually wro te prevent such a calamity in future. The resolution said mitted. (Hear, hear.) Why, the attack upon our L that what had been done was "contrary to those usages of tion, the murder of two sentries at th e d oor o f the - eation egs war which prevail among civilised nations." Legation would van- on another occasion—both of th ose a t roc i t i es . ' were committed ture to say that this was not so. It was not contrary to by the retainers of Daimios who Were sp e ally employed by the usages of war to bombard a town provided with batte - the Tycoon's Government to protect eci the y people wh om r i e s as a means of defence against ships brought into col - they so barbarously attacked and, in some " oases, murdered. li s ion with it. The case was otherwise where a town had It was necessary for the protection of British subjects that no defences. We did not in the Crimean w ar b om b ar d these Dairaios should be taught that although they mi g ht Odessa because it had no b atteries t o attack our fleet.fleet.Of set at defiance the authority of the Tycoon, they could not t o wns that had been bombarded by civilised nations he with impunity commit outrages upon British subjects. m i g ht mention Algiers , which was bombarded in 18 16, (Hear, hear.) Akmiral Kuper wastherefot e ordered, i n Ant,verp in 1830, Be y rout b y th e T urkish fleet , Acre in cas e re dress was refused, to use force in order ' to obtain it. 1840 by the Eng lish, and Barcelo na , by the Spanish Go - M y no ble friend at the head of the Foreign-office gave in vernment. The French bombarded Tangiers, a peaceful structions net simply on his own authority,l but instructions town , and the private property of the Emperor of Morocco, sanctioned by the Government, and for which take as full and allowed the Rabyle barbarians to come down upon it a responsibility as any that can attach to him, and' sa ck it. Rome was bombarded in June and July, 1848, entirely approved at the time, I en ti re l y (Hear.) I ve now, aPPro of and in 1854 the Americans bombarded Greytown and the course which my noble friend took • , and I say that it burned it to the ground. Here there were no batteries to was the only course which was consistent with his duty as protect the town, yet the ships fired on it. In defence of a Minister of the Crown, and as representi ng t h e interests t hi s conduct the President of America said the arrogant of this country abroad. (Hear, hear.) Did my noble friend con tumacy of the inhabitants left no alternative but to break say "Go and burn a defenceless town up their establishments, or leave them Under the impres H admiral left it to the discretion o f the ?" No such thing. either to blockade sion that they might pursue a career of lawlessness and the town and port belong ing to Prince S a t suma, or to de plunder. What was taking place now in America ? Cha r l es - stroy his forts and his castle if that c ou ld b e eas i ly done. his ton was being bombarded. (Hear.) That town had batte- Admiral Kuper performed duty as a British officer ries, certainly, but then the Federals were constantly throw. ought to perform it. He did not begin an attack upon the ing Greek fire and missiles into the town, We heard of forts. He demanded satisfaction, women and children being killed there, yet some persons days with the envoys ofPrince and parleyed for two justified this mode of assault. (Disapprobation.) These friend (Mr. Layard) aid, they Satsuma. As my hon. bombardments were not merely carried on by sea. Last first to inveigle him and ey twice tried by acts of treachery year we heard of the bombardment of Port Jackson, and pretty well what would Colonel Neale ashore, and we know the New Vorle papers described, with apparent satisfaction, next to surprise the Vessel, have happened to them there ; and how the houses and public buildings were destroyed. eon to bring 40 e and take it by asking permis (Hear, hear.) That was justified. (Opposition cheers.) He given, but a armed retainers on board. This leave was quoted these cases to prcve that civilised nations considered opposite to them,party of marines of equal force was ranged the bombardment of towns as coming within the usages of embark in theirl and then they thought it better to re. war. (Hear, hear.) When our ships were fired on at which they had oat, without cagy : nag out the object for co rue it was our duty to return the fire. (Hear.) negotiate 1p? prepared. After two days spent in No British admiral could avoid doing so. (Hear, hear.) steatnerl3 Admiral Kuper sent to take possession of the Tn this affair the papers would show that the admiral's yielded to by way of reprisal, and if Prince Satsuma had conduct had met with - the approval of the French. It was released, our demands those steamers would have been stated that the English had not been sufficiently concilia- to the town.'and no harm would have been done to his forts or tory. The papers showed that the Americans had suffered session f But while these steamers were in the pos severely by being too conciliatory. In the papers laid before squadro o ou l r ships the forts opened fire upon the British Congress the American Minister at Japan said, " I have not maintain h trust there is no man in this house who will been anxious until recently for the presence of a naval force, ron is Ltd at, when a British admiral commanding a squad but my opinion has undergone a great change," and then he turn the fireat by a foreign battery, it is not his duty to ree recommended the sending a naval force to Japan as neces- not to ' and to teach the enemy that British ships are sary for some time to preserve to the world what had been Admiralhe insulted and attacked with impunity. Well, then, Kuper gained. He stated also that it was the presence of the Dd. that hi was compelled to burn the steamers, in order 0 ships might be free for action, In the course of t stance the same as he co:4o had GORE iiitroodb fu s: ciona l e,d ll : ol.e i es to ~,._ iti 1 1 . Leave w oasitgmivsenwße 0 1 ' air Mr. W. OF bill 1755 od 11 D tio E n G o A C f li T h E Uß as C ir ri ed leave toSiintroclac 0 trusted the house i d A a bill to amend the would uoTl bringdi TRESPASS allow E spinAhtsihmse t(lo3lE,liin. v t r 1. jo AND),uc ei. ' tr 0 u ~,,e . coo law of trespass in certv..— land. CHAIN CABLESQUER, AND .111"..- 'sill for • resolve intowaacsoobtained leave to introduce a " Aare. the proving and sale of chain cables so d gill A$ - e it motion of the OHANCELLOE of _,..oaf BANK ACT (SCOTLAND). 41,- L the.P OS" On the motion committee, a nd onoraromdfeirtmetedentehnatththeeßheonneotuoTf h;co.ooch to SUPPLY. A 611 F. BELL, the 1101/-:oje. • ' agreed to a vote of supplY to her -f, , e l SIR JOHN LAWRENCE'S, SAJAP ele an WI The report on this subject was agreed to, —ci a bg in the bill. o'c l°A to T rin house djour t ell e .......nd e- at ten min utes P ast 3 to -------- 9 1 ' 0 [ADVERV ,:114 .., viee id ,SEMENT.I —Holloway's J:<.,, tile "lig chetr ) ' .ess, indeed, is the present season, 1 "`; ja r ° , eo deaths are far above the average. The eati,!,,,Te 12ech-lieo diffused through the dull, damp fogs whie a '', l / /hie" t lie prevalent of late. These pills purify th e bi°° ton e te 0 4 been contaminated by foul gases, and gi.v° go trio t oe nervous system, whereby typhus, hYPlleta are e ii 4 o f bilious fevers are warded off. Holloway'e P"" en.alste„ta, best known promoters of digestion, the surest ficoelno the liver, and tho most valued and effective of a t ' ite fle e When the health is impaired with loss of a4'e re;toli' and sleep, this medicine will be found a ca rt and • will rarely fail to effiet a cure. .- 7 ------------ Ill' MS cwutsohNcTieloTßtl:: of C. R. F ° e: —_ Births. Esq., of a son. FENwrex._ frotteseif wtilicek,9Ethsign.:sti at J 3 Itutlancl'gtltrn tll°_hitio, KELSEL—On the 9th inst., at Pa„o.e.greeFattaio 1. tl, of a son. late of Clapham-Park, the ?rife of 338°J 11 3° ife rt 6 p at a—b — foorp O lynaa n onuvhtdmih t nd h .e e m7t Bthuh in.roin;tsß.:.ls,acita.,tßTfdositiatsbeouriilrd.ggbe:ptv Do gild DlXON mcuhßuprlic — h ß y it IsC o . •, . , iuogeol: o:tarrihe Bathgeins;t bi r 0 0 ' at oars ot 0 0 ir j i Vt;ftoo 1 _KBob"carlan_do, 2riseaotrhgeoef itila',.::., rt,b0:00ropo:; daughter of Sir Dixon,l.oert lirisco, Bart" Cumberland. . t at ,- °,.rioteco; Church, Enniskerr Jones lgurpaY, ho r of , law, to Mary JosYop' bine eldest danir Hon. Mr. Justice lieogh;l3ushey-14:"' , 01 Deaths. 130 1, ter Will. 11.413 BE AL t l3°' .--On the 6th inst., at Bell° ' Stri late of Exeter, aged 56. as Da'''' 0f titO DAws.—On the 7th inst., r. Thotu COP Hotel, Jermyn-street, aged 60. .4.0,0.c/114P .4 HypsoN..—On the Bth in a t yri1,,u.4., Tied 63, et, tm George Isaac Hudson, late 11.11,.1.1" '.. w ooP o elf -0 0 LycioN.—On the sth inst., at 12, TIPP rge Lacy Louisa Lygen. .4_ Greet COO A LITTLE.—On the SL inst., at 0-., abed 6l. t ollity Berniondse Thomas Little, Vitgl" ivieopor f P jo MEWNiDliSiaefl3ll.Yili:l3lBl, aingSedt. corral looter ,s4a.t Stoke , .c r eti surbitolb 'sireoto THyNNE.—On the 7th inst., teorge'stree4 Thynne, Esq., of 11, Great , fi r aged 59. i 4°° ‘‘,, / , l‘l' .------------, .... O. A._ ,„.... D I , i • dif dDi 'V'ti 1 i °P'l"- , 1 0 . London: Prin:ed and Pr'- a. „,,0 a t .,, cf of No. 112, Strand, Strand, in the Precinct °rhroary 10, 16° hilidlepeX.77Viredgefldflit "" A Priter; title•Asmaloi‘ 1 .: 11 - 1 E SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 10, 1864. it the —,r eet , 4 11; tn ediat( th e „ 29t t t . 11 . 1 t1) 1T hattPorpe 4 1)tt: ‘°t, 1 111 04 4 I t £st J! 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