The Sun. — London, England, 1818-03-03 00:00:00

i ecreese of 11,000 men were - necessary for this perpose, and should therefore move an emend mew for their reduction. It was painful to place men in the shnation that Officers would be in ss hen reduced ; but the House had other duties to pe , form. Was there any thing in the state of oer finances that should induce us to keep np ainele qtalion more than was absolutely neces sat v The great difficeity did l ee li e s o muc h i n soy q u it ter as here, where we had to pay the in ivies( of Our National Debt, and where money was infinitely difficolt to he got. Now, wilt re spect 10 Ireland, '20,000 men, it waS said, were not too many ; but after what bad been heard of the stat-e of Ireland, he could net conceive why the .Peace . Establishment should he double the amouet that teas necessary; for Ireland, notwith. seat:dia l .; the ;treat pilivations and distresses which the people had aufiered, was asserted to be pecu liarly tranquil and pacific. However, as the No hie Lord had confined himself to simple details, be should not n e w originate a debate, but lie would say, that it was his intention, 0 0 t h e p re . sew a:ice of the Report, to move for a further re duct hitt of 8000 or 9000 men. Sir M. W. liipeest wished to call the atten tion of the Committee to one part of the Estimate, which he thought deset ving of censure. He al. holed to the Royal Waggon '!'rain, which Was of rut Ilse, and of tviiich one troop was kept up, as if this eeptat , e were of no consequence to the eoittetry. The whole expense of this Train was 30.313/. which was 50001. or 60001. more than any Regiment of Dragoons cost the count) y.— Atuolier item that might be reduced was the re cruits. There was a great increase in the esti ntateS of the charges tor Medicines, and there was rt considerable charge for the soleport of the Bci tanical Garden at St. Vincents, though he could not tell what this had to do with the department of the Secretary at War. In the Military lege there were some items of charge for pensions, to the amount of 7401., heiug an increase 01250/. on that of the year preceding. Bat in an establish ment of so short a standing, an increase of pen sions ought to he guarded against. There was another charge of a pension of 2075/. to the re tired Barrack-Master-Getteral. He thought this. deserving of some explanation. Lord PaereenseeoN in reply, justified the main tenance of the Waegon Trani, as they were em ployed :n breaking horses for the troops in France; another part of them weie employed on the Royal Military Canal, and some of them were attached 'to the Army on the Continent, where they were useful in drawing forage carts, and conveying sick to the hospitals. The Recruiting Staff was not more than was necessary ; for each dis trict must have its recruiting Field Officer, Pay master, anti Serjeant, to inspect the men. He did not think any economy would arise from dimi nishing these systems, and more loss would be iii curred tot account of the lecruils before final in spection, that) would equal the saving arising front the reduction. As to the Botanical Garden at st. Vincent's, it was established at the instance of Sir George Yonne, when Secretary at kVar, and it had been ever since wider the superintendence of his successors. The Garden was under the con trol of the Medical Establishment, for the purpose of cultivating medical plants; but an inquiry was now going- on to ascertain if the Establishment were really useful, and if not, it would be relin geisheil. pensions on the Military College were for professors, who were entitled to them af ter a service of fifteen years. Tie addition arose front the retirement of a gentleman who bad been seventeen yeas on this Establishment. As to the Barrack-Master General's pens on, althoogh it was voted, it had not 'welt issued, and he believed it was intended to apply- it to the balance he owes to Government. The 26,000 men for the Home station were not professed to be applicable to the Horne service only, for !mothers were to be de ducted for the supply of foreign garrisons. No body would contend that they ought to de doomed to perpetual banishment;. therefore it was necessary to send out reliefs every year ; and it every regi ment were relieved only every ten years, it worth ' take about 3;300 men annually from the home ' service, and a lower number than would be left would not be sufficient for home defence. Besides, as it was essential that fresh gat risons should oc casionally be sew out, there must be between 4 and 5,000 men sent in the coarse of every year, instead of 3,300. The numerical amount of our faces abroad could not be allowed to fall below the number assigned, and the non-etfectives must fall on the numbers at tonne. Then, if, besides this, were deducted the forces for our Islands in the Channel, the nember for Great Britain would be found not to exceed 18,000 or 19,000 men. The Hon. Gentleman would then see that the dif ferettce between 1792 and now would not prac tically give hint more than 18,000 or 19,000 men, and could it he said that the alteration in our cir cumstances and relations did not sufficiently justify this difference M. WAKHR made a le,nr remarks in corrobora tion of the opinion„ that while we had so large an army in France,• we bad less occasion for such an e,,tablishm ?tit at home. Mr. PEEL justified the Estimate for Ireland. Wheo . he rei•ert x d to the circumstances of Ireland for the last five years, and remetnbered that it was necessary to maintain 25,000 regular troops in that country, he could not hut feel highly grati fied, that the people who had undergone such ex treme privations were now in such a state, that it was only necessary to keep 20,000 men in arms there, inot.e to prevent illicit practices than for other reasons. This, he thought, must afford un mixed satisfaction to every man who reflected an it That this number was still necessary must rest on the responsibility of those who were ac tuated by a sincere, desire to make every possible reduction. Even in the time' of 'Lord Towtnsend (1767), it was deemed, "necessary to maintain 15,000 men in Ireland ; .and when the force that it has been necessary to keep there for the last ei g h t y e ars was considered, it was impossible to compare it with the present reduction without the greatest gratification.. In the course of the pre sent year there bad been a reduction of 3000 yeo manry in Ireland, and the whole reduction relat ing to Ireland produced a diminution of 211,0001. below the establishment of last year. Since the Peace of Amiens, a very considerable force had been maintained there, which had al- mast exclusively been devoted to the main tenance of the public tranquillity, by aiding the civil power. The amount or force at the Peace of Amiens was 22,000 men ; and from the 10th of Frh. - 1816, the reduction had been from 44,000 to 20,000. He was happy to say that Ireland was in a state of general tranquillity; and it was not possible to pay too high a tribute to the people, for the fortitode with which they had submitted.to privations and . distress. Happily, the Executive Government had been enabled to grant them pe cuniary aid, for the relief of the most poor and distressed. This had been given to the amount of 37,0001., and had been productive of the best effects, and he was perfectly sati , fied that it was impossible for such a benefit to be received with greater gratitude than by these poor people. He could not go so far as to say that there was com plete tranquillity in all parts of Ireland. Some excesses ‘•(;iold of course frequently. happen ; but they were few in number to what they used to be The extension of the civil power had heel) highly advintageous, and the more it continued to be ex tended, the mote would the military power he dispensed with. In proof of the improved dispo sition ot the people, the Right lion. Gentleman observed, that though the Insurrection Act had passed last year, it had not been found necessary to put it in execution. On the whole, therefore, be congratulated the House on being enabled to dispense with 5000 men from an establishment proposed so lately as 1816. Sir W. BURROUGHS denied the necessity of the force now proposed for Ireland, anti allotted to the time of tire American war, when only 3000 men were allowed, though that coontry was daily threatened with invasion ; therefore the Right Hon. Gentleman had no right 'o suppose the effective force was near so much as be had said.— it there had been discontents in Ireland, they had arisen from the oppressions of this Government, and they ever would be resisted. He would ad vise them to beware how they irritated the feel ings of such a people tinder the calamities that afflicted them. The vote was only for four thou sand men less than last year. The amount of the Revenue last year was 51,000,0001. and the Ex penditure 65,000,0001. The deficiency was there fore 14,000,0001. lf, then, there was this defi ciency, where would it end? The Noble Lord had not held Out a hope of any farther reduction in future years, and 4,200 men was the whole of the reduction promised on the face of this Estimate out of ninety thousand. If this were all the de duction to be made from an establishment that cost us 6,000,0001. up to this very hour, was it possible that the country would he able to provide for such a force ? If the public faith were to he violated by any appropriation of the Sink ing Fund, or it a new Property Tax were be levied in any shape, they might then find the means; but they could not obtain them otherwise; and there fm e we must despair of any reduction of expellee, except by the reduction of the estimates.. This military force was really enormous in the present state of the country. Last year the Yeomanry in Ireland ,was 44,000, and now great merit was as sumed for reducing it 3000. But where was the Yeomanry force before the war? There was none. Thus 44,000 Yeomanry and 25,030 Regulars made 69.000 soldiers, kept up in Ireland only, in time of peace with all the world. This was most serious. The Him. Baronet proceeded to ani madvert on the numbers allowed for the relief of foreign garrisons, and various minor items, all of which he considered larger than necessity required. Some brief explanations took place between Lord PALMERSTON and Mr. \VARRE. Mr. BABLNGTON complained of the manner in which the Chelsea Pensioners were paid, and wished such arrangements could be made as should prevent their spending their pensions in drunken ness and disorder as soon as they were received. Mr. LONG spoke generally as to the good con duct of the Chelsea Pensioners, hut ont of the great number that received pensions from Chel sea►, it was to be expected that there would be tout►ct some wort Hess persons who would waste what they received. If any plan could be sug gested ►which would have the effect of making such persons lay out their pensions in a way beneficial to their families, he should be favourable to its adoption. Mr. FORBRS had moved two years ago for a re turn of all officers receiving pensions on account of wounds. tie wished to know why such a pa per had not been laid before the [louse in (lie present year. He then offered some remarks on the line of conduct pursued with respect to the navy, and comparing it whh the kindness shown to the army, argued a partiality on the part of the Government for the latter. Lord li:Ln'tiEs - roN begged to remark, that the document whiA had been mentioned, it had never been customary to produce every year. If the Hon. Gentleman chose to move for it now, as lie had done two yeas ago, he sho►►ld have no ob. jection to the motion. He denied that there ex isted any partiality for the army on the part of the Government. There could be none to distinguish it from the navy - , in the manner supposed by the Hon. Gentleman, as the arrangements made for the two services did not emanate from the same department. Me. FORBES remarked, the pensions on the Navy List had been dimi►iished, while those of the army were kept up as lorrucrly. Lord PALMEI;STON said, if the Hon. Gentleman would state to hitn where a pension had been withdrawn which ought to have continued, or continued when it ought to be withdrawn, he would be most happy to go into the case with him. After a few words from Sir F. FLOOD and Sir M. NV. RIDLEY, the Resolution was agreed to. The following grants were then moved and agreed to : To defray the charges of the Land Forces in Great Britain, and in our possessions abroad, excepting the troops now in France and in the East Indies, fur the year ending in December 1818 .. 4 .1070,140 To defray the charges for Land Forces in Ireland .. 817,231 For the General Officers or. the Stair, &c. for Great Britain .. For the General Ott cers of the Staff,.&c. in Ireland 33,850 Allowances to the principal Officers of certain Public Departments iu England Ditto for Ireland To defray the charges fur Medicines for the Land Forces in England Ditto for Ireland • 10,200 To defray the charges for Volunteer Corps in Great Britain Ditto for Ireland To defray charges for the Land Forces in France To defray the charges of fourteen Regiments kept up in Great Britain, to recruit the forces its the East Indies ... 21,275 For the Royal Military College Fur the Half Pay of General Officers of the Land Forces on the Staff, not being Colonels of Regi ments in Great Britain Ditto for Ireland For Garrisons at Home and Abroad For Garrisons in Ireland For charges created by full-pay allowed to retiring Officers from establishments in Great Britain 129,009 Ditto for Ireland For half-pay allowed to reduced Officers in Great Britain Ditto for Ireland 50,000 For Military allowances to reduced Officers of Esta- blishments in Great Britain Ditto for Ireland . For allowance to wounded Officers in Great Britain 13(3,300 For the In-Pensioners of Chelsea Hospital For In-Pensicners of the Royal Hospital at Kihnain- 2,353 42,000 ham Out-Pensioners of Chelsea Hospital Out-Pensioners of Kilmainham Hospital Pensions to Widows of Officers of the Land Forces iri England Ditto for Ireland Allowances for the Compassionate List 161,506 Ditto fur Ireland Commutations for Allowances in England Ditto for Ireland For Fees paid into the Exchequer for Establishments in England For Charges for Corps expected to be reduced in Eng- land Ditto for Ireland 50,40 q 97,260 7,100 33,000 52,115 EXCIIEQLTER BILLS. 2,284 Tt!e CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Said, in rising to propose a vote to cover the interest of Exchequer Bills, notwithstanding their increased an►ount, lie should not have had to move for more than 1,900,0001. the grant of last year, but for the increased issue of Irish Treasury Bills, and the charge growing out of the re-coinage. Ile proceeded to offer explanations on these subjects, and sheaved that the re-coinage had been con ducted on the most economical plan, by his Right Honourable Friend, the Master of t'he Mint, and on a plan chat would entail no permanent charge on the country. Most of the silver used in the new coinage he stated to have been purchased at so low a rate as ss. per oz. The charge, how ever, growing ont of the re-coinage and the Irish Treasury Bills, made it necessary that he should move for the sutra of 2,000,0001. Which, even with these additions, would be le - es than the usual average called for to meet the interest on Exche quer Bills by 300,0001. lie then moved for a Grant of 2,000,0001. to discharge the interest on Exchequer Bills, on Irish Treasury Bills, and Mint Notes. After a few wards from Mr. GRENFELL, the motion was agreed to. He then moved for a Grant to cover Treasury Bills issued for the service of Ireland in 1816, pursuant to an Act of the 56th of the King, cap. 47-1,095,615/. The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER then pro posed the usual grant of one per cent. to torn► a Sinking Fund for Exchequer Bills. He moved that 560,0001. should be granted, being the hundredth part of the sum authorized to be issued do tl►e aids of the last year, to be paid by quar terly instalments to the Bar.k, on account of the Commissioners for . the redemption of the Na tional Debt. The Resolution was agreed to. The CLIANCELLOR of the EXCUEQUER reminded the Committee of an engagement entered into by. the country under the Treaty of 1815, to advance the sum of 3,000,0001. towards defraying the charge of erecting the fortifications, to be erected as a barrier to the Netherlands. The fulfilment of this engagement was now claimed, and 1,000,0001. was required in the present year, and the saute sum would be called for in the next. Owing to counter claims which this country had on the Government of the Netherlands, lie should in the Present year not to have to move for more than a grant of 7 or 800,0001. Mr. WARR!: wished to know if the 125,000,000 francs which France was bound to contribute to wards the works in question had been so applied 'flie CIiANCELLOR of the EXCIILQUER said, the sum called for would be wanted to complete the works, in addition to the sum which France was to furnish. Mr. WARES admitted- the importance of the fortifications, but had thought it right to put the question he had asked. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER stated the restoration of the barrier of the Rhine, as well as that of the Netherlands, to be comprehended in the plan in pursuance of which the grants of which' he had spoken were to he moved. Mr. B. SHAW wished to know if any part of the contributions to be received front Fiance would be applied to the service of this country in the present year ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER COHld not hold out a hope that any part of the French con tributions would be' applicable to the service, of the present year. The utmost he could expect was that France would bear, as she had hithtrto done, the expence of the Army of Occupation, and con tribute her share towards the erection of the for tresses in the Nethet lands. The House then resumed, and the Report-of the Committee was ordered to be received to-morrow. The Kilmainham Hospital Bill was read a third time and passed. The Steam Boat Bill was read a second time, and committed for Friday, the 13th inst. The Officers' Indemnity Bill was read a third time and priced. Mr. PEEL moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the Aboli tion of Prison Fees in Ireland. _ Sir F. FLOOD gave the Bill his most perfect approbation. Leave was givett to bring iza the Bill, which WAS diately brought in by Mr. Peel, read a first, and ordered to be read a second time on that day fortnight. BANK TOKENS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to 'move for leave to bring he a Bill to regulate the operation of the Act for recalling Bank tokens• At present it was likely that considerable dia' culty might be experienced by some persons, espe" cially by the lower class of shopkeepers, it the circulation' of Bank tokens were wholly to cease from the 25th March. The.object of the pre' sent Bill would be, to allow them to pass for certain purposes, so that they might be more gradually drawn in than was at first intende d ' The object in view, he stated, would be con' •iderably facilitated, if Gentlemen, going int!) the country, would carry with them, in their carriages, a bag of silver coin, to exchange among their tenants for Bank Tokens, ►which might be conveyed to town in the same way with little trouble. Many persons bail perhaps expected that the same measures would be taken for calling in the Bank Tokens wbicl► had been adopted for exchanging the new for the old silver. A Government, however, that heti not issued these tokens ought not to be called upon to make such extended arrangements on att occasion like the present, but at the same thud something ought to be done. He proposed by the Bill lie ►wished to bring in, to allow tokens to be taken during twelve months for postage of let' ters at d iu paynitnt of taxes in the country► and thence remitted to London. He had also to rerornmcnd, that for the same period they should be received for rent, and he hoped when the object in view was borne in mi n d , that Gentlemen would cheerfully consent to this. These provisions, he thought, would pre' vent any very serious inconveniences front bt•iil telt. At all events time would be gained to see how far such a plan atisvered the purpose iu view, and to take other measures, it necessary ;'iu the meanwhile lie trusted this Bill ►would allay that f erment a nd alarm which bad been felt in some parts of the country. He moved for leave to bring in the Bill. Mr. F. Lewis objected to the Bank Tokens being called in immediately, since the price of silver had lately risen, and a further advance might be expected. General THORNTON wished the use of Silver Tokens tr• be encouraged for another year. Mr. JOHN SMITH thought the price of silver likely to rise highei' in consequence of the great loans now about to be.sent out of the country- He was, ,however, consoled by the influence which he bad found the Bank had over the Es' change, and by, the use which they made of that influence. Sir M. W. RIDLEY hoped that the Collectors!of Taxes in the Country were to transmit the Tokeol they might receive to London. If they, insteatt of doing this, were. to pay them into the Coup' try Banks, the measure would fall far short of the object which the Right Hon. Gentleman had ill view, and would not afford the intended relief in those whom he wished to protect. • Mr. GRENFEILL said he believed there was tio penalty for circulating Bank Tokens after Ihe'2s , " of March. He therefore th oug ht th e Bill would have the, effect . of encouraging rather than pre' venting the - circulation. The expence of transmit° Ong Tokens from the most remote parts of tate kingdom„-would not exceed three tpa.ter , Pcr cent. ; and this expence ought not to be laid upott Country Bankers, but ought to be borne by Go• veroment. The CHANCELIAR of the EXCHEQUER said, g we meant to preset ye our silver currency from the effect of the fall in the rate of exchange, the firs step must be to remove the tied circulation a Bank Tokens. He admitted that the suspension of the penalty would, to a certain deree, bare the effect of keeping up the circulation ; but 114 operation of that part of the Bill was to be inttell limited, and confined as mach as possible to per-- sons receiving or collecting Tokens for ,the pur pose of transmission. After a few words' from Mr. BABINGTON, the motion Was. agreed to. The Norih American Tiade Bill was brought' in, read a first time, and ordered to be read 6 second time to-morrow.—Adjourned. A POETICAL MANIFESTO. The mirthful muse, which spurns at tics, " May sketch a truth in sportive guise." AT a town in the West, where Death-hunters repair, And take different courses to catch hitu when there, By having recourse, when there's no'sort of needing, To sousing and sweating, wad purging and bleeding; While others at real disease seldom shock'd are, . "rill Death draws the curtain in shape of a doctor; PreScribing pukes, blisters, and potions, and pills, Either one way or other, to cure all their ills. At this modern GOLGOTHA, crowded so fall Of Death's spoils, you may call it " The Place of a Skull I, Timortn , TorrEu, a man of some means, And perhaps somewhat richer in bullion than brains, Had long labour'd under a vile coMplication, And poz'd three physicians about its causation: Who trinnely agreed, that till TiIAT was explor'd, Their patient could never to health be restor'd; ' Arid This the wise trio had long traced in vain, Thro' the nerves, lungs and liver, the head acrd the brain ; Till, at last, their poor patient, impatient of quacking, Threw their drugs in the sink, and the doctors sent 'meting , But, to ! a few se'unights had scarcely gone by, After each, in his torn, had prournme'd I must die,' Whets from sickness's bed hale and lustyls.prung, Like the fOlk from the mill which grinds old people young, And meeting' my three quondam friends in the Crescent, Who thought me laid low, quit of cares and quiescent, Don't wonder, said I; that you see me recoVeed, Since by SomixoN's Wisnom my case is discover'd And that wisdom which flows from a fountain so pure, Has at once traced the cause, and effected the cure. You could find out no Balm for my deep wounded health, Tim' your worships' deep skill suck'd nay brains and my . wealth, But to strew what list suach'd me from death past denial, 'lead the words " BALM Or GILEAD" on this little phial ! • This is truth, let incredency say what it will. Witness—'Trayimtv TOTTER, of Totterdown Hill. P.S.—lf you think my right name is conceard from your view, Ask at No. 13, and they'll tell you, Who's Who. DIED. On the 26th ult. of a lingering decline, Charity, daughtet of Mr. George Guttins, one of the Officers of Pembroke Dock yard. O❑ Friday last, after a long illness, Mrs. Clarke, wife of Mr. John Clarke, Fieet-street. Same day, at Latham, Henrietta, the wife of George Hart.- well, Esq. LONDON: Printed by 3. B. CARSTAIRS, of No. 29, Great Ormond-street, Queen-square; and published by W. A. SCRIPPS, of No. 7, South Molton-street, at Tin: Sut Office, No. 112, Strand ; where Adveitisenaents, Orders/ Letters, &c. (po . st-paid must be addressed. t