The Sun. — London, England, 1808-02-04 00:00:00

Erma and of the wealsnets c f Den.nerk would justify the Expedition, seemed to forget - the admise sion, fled to argue the brome:l Principle. It was ue doubtedly just, that there were a eotnieuuity States in Europe, the weal*'Statee beghtto be ae, secure from aggression as the more power& onese This was a principle which had never been denied. But Gentlemen applied this 'prieciple,which proper ly belonged to that state of Europe in which the eights at all were secured by the sanctity of public • law ; and even the weakesi were preserved from aggression or insult, if not by immediate proteaion, at least by confliaing interests. But in the enthu eiesm of the Right Honourable Get tleman's mo rality, it was realer strange, that he should have forgotten the moralities of the French Revolution, lii the present state of the world, whatever miseries may be produced, whatever calaMities endured, whatever atrocities comMitted, by the permission of that Prividenc.e in which we live, and breathe, and haves our being, the whole tespuneibility must rest upon him who is the,sole author of them. There is not now a community of States•in Europe, con netted ,by the solemnity and sanaion of public law, protected, arid prote&ing by this influence of the principles of equal justice, and a mutual sense of re eiptoeal rights; there is bat one deeming State, that swallows up evley one that it can bring within its grasp, and that so far from respeding the rights and independence of other nations, reduces all to tedit.eriiiminate subjection, rendering them alike sub-. servient to its designs against this Country. • Buena parte now diaates to all the nations of the Conti nent, and has ,erased every vestige of public laW irt Europe. Hecould not hut be surprised then, to find -Gentlemen. censuring a me:teem which, had • proved tieesalvation .of the Country ; it had saved us. from the imminent dangers that Menaced us, and therefbre it was that he Was surprised to hear Gentlemen compare spell a measure with anti quated crimes in which we had eo share, for which we had incurred no responsibility. Was it to be contended that ie a moment of imminent danger and impending necessity, we should have abstain ed.frorn that course which pridence and pplicy dic tated in order to meet and avert those calamities that threatened our security and existence, be cause if we sunk under the pressure, we should have the consolation to plead Puffendorff. bst the con- au& that . had been .adopted cm this occasion, was not without precedent or example.. In, the, year leo), the Island of Madeira had: been eakere, pot session of by our Government for fear it should fall into the hands of the French. Yet Portugal was a Neutral Nation, and had alWays, by way .of pre eminence, been styled the old and ancient Ally of England. The capture of Madeira bed been effeded without any preelous communication to the Court of Lisbon. Undoubtedly instruetitins , had been sent to our Minister atelme Court of Lisbon, to request that' an' order should be eent to th e Cee. vernor to surrender the Islarld iu good The instructions arrived at Lisbon about the time that the troops arrived at Madeira, and the Island was consequently taken by force, before any orders could have beo sent put to surrender it with good will. Where had • Portugal at that time a Fleet that could convey troops for the In vasion of these Llands,• or If she ,ttad that Fleet,, - what Expedition could be .sent by her that would not be defeated by the valour and intrepidity of our seamen. He did not mean to condemn the capture of that Island, because he knew i!`eit it tnight be, and he had no doubt that it was, justifiable upon the grounds of probable necessity ; he advereed to • the transaction only as a defence against the generality of the char ;e. But , that was not the only / instance ' in which such condua had been practised toNeutral States, in which it had been used towards Neutral and friendly powers ; nay, even there was an instance in which it had been adopted byemorality (Mr. Windham) itself towards a *friendly State. In the year tette), there had been repo r ts of its being the in tention of time French Government to invade Portu gal.. He had himself no doebt of the perpetual in tention of the French Government to prosecute that pm - pose, and he did not queation that the design might have been in contemplation at that time,-but it did not appear that any atm) , was assembled for the purpose at Bayonne. He admired the conduct ~which had been adopted by the late Ministers on the occasion, he applauded their spirit, and he felt gra titude for the manner in which their proceedings en abled him. to meet *the general question on this charge. (Here the Right Honourable Secretary tendon extra& from the instructions given by the late Board of Admiralty to Lail St. Vincent, when dispatched :te Lisbon. The instrudiens direded the Noble Admiral's attention to three objects ; tiest if the Portuguese Government 4hould, by itself, er in conjunction with Spain, be disposed to defend the Country against the French, ,to promise all. the assistance that Greaeßritain cpuld afforcl e and,the presence of a reseedable naval force in the Tagus would contribute to that, obje(t ; edly, if that should: notbe the determination of the Court, and the Go vernmeneshould embrace the resolution, of emigrat ing to the Brazils, as it had once propotted, during the late war, to offer them' the assistance'of a British naval force, under the proteCtioh of which' alone that detertuitiation could be carried into etfe, ; ,and lastly, if there sheuld not be vigour enough in the GovernMent to adopt either of these resolutions, he was to prevent, if possible, the Port of Lisbon from falling into the hands of the French, and at all events the Portuguese navy was to be secured; every Vessel of which that was serviceable was to be brought off, together with the Ships, goodie and per sons of the British Faaory 'at Lisbon, and also the Court, it it should be so disposed: for the execution of these instrudions, the troops that were then embitrkiag were to be sent to him with all convenient expedi tion ; but he was not to give any intimation of the circumstance to the Portuguese Government, nor to bold any lan g uage that might excite the suspicion of the French Minister, or lead to any measures of Precaution and as it might be necessary to employ the troops immediately on their arrival, in order to secure a strong position, he was to have the marines Land boats of the Fleet constantly in, readiness for that service.) These inatrudiotis were clear in their te sior, precise in their object, and conclusive as to eae question then under cousideration. If any Gen tleteen wished for the document It - would be laid on ehe table, and /the only shyness that had beets felt in p.oducing it before was that it would place limp a id his colleagues in the situation of edrivieted eitie twists. These were the instructions Alta hee iseen given by morality itself, and the only differ. trice between them and the instrudions that had been given by the present Government was, that the latter did not desire that the army should be intro ducedin disguise. But there might yet be one qua. lineaticu that the Honourable Gentleman would ap plY to. Den mark, namely, that her condua, when she was relatively strong to weaker Neutral States, did not merit such a measure against her. What had that condut been ? When, in 1.801, the marl-. time confederacy held out a prosped that this Country would not be able to protect its allies, Denmark treated the unprotected Neutral State of Hamburgh with the most violent oppression, and for the purpose of excluding the English from that port. The same conduct hadteen pursued towards Rata burgh. This conduct proved that Denmark had no very.strong claims for forbearance. But it was ra. - ther strange, that those Gentlemen, who blamed Government for not having accepted the mediation of Russia, should now impute it as a ground of charge that they had not passed by Copenhagen in order to attack Cronstadt. 'We • had the right to attack, , i ftuesia, but had we no interest in forbearing•to ex ` ircise that right ? There were, at the time, in the Potts of Resia, five hundred British ships, and six thousand British seamen, and Gentleinen would perceive, that these formed too important an obje& to be hazarded for the sake of the few hulks that might be obtained at Cronstadt : besides, the fleet which Russia had iu the Mediterranean was a security to us for her good behaviour ; and here he would take occasion to contradid a tniorepreorienta tion that had taken place upon the. subject of this fleet. The Russian Squadron did not enter the Tagus by orders irom the Government, but frotn.,. their distress, and because all the ports of the Enemy were so closely blockaded by our squa drons that. they could bet toter any one of them. This squadron was first directed to touch at a British Port, and even the Russian Ambassa- . dor was so deceived with resped to it, that he had kept here a Frigate with specie on.board for thp payment of that very Heat. :But if t! at fleet bad been attacked, 'what an argument m?ght yet he drawn against the precipitancy of such la measure, from the circumstance of theAttadron batting been diredled to touch at a British Port, and theitussian - Ambassador having detained the Frigate 'ith the specie for the pay at the crews. ge bad intietieusly avoided referring to any thing in this debate, but what was notorious; 'and it' they were to ask whotoijiad rested their defence upon precise infortnatioi‘z.whett the events and fads that had since taken place had amply justified their measure, he would an oker, that they had stated that precise grwnd be cause it was true, and not because they aonght it necessary to theiejustification in judging of the caae before the House. If any more evidence should be thought necessary, let them be condemned, for no thing should ever extort frotn them the source whence they had derived their information. If Gentlemen should say that this course was contrary to the prac tice Qf Parliament, he would go to the Journa's, to prove that it was riot oet of the usual course of ' Parliamentary proceedings.. Having rescued the Country from a 'great and inunineht danger; he would trust to the case as it stood, and he bad no doubt that their cOndiiet would he judged deserving of credit. •Thdy might judge of the extent of the ser vice performed, by contemplating the distrihetion Of our naval fUree that might be necessary if the Danish Fleet were not now in oar possession. - As to what the Hon. Gentleman had said of the increase; of the danger 0 Sweden by the Expedition, be Could as- I sure that Gentleman titan that danger was greatly di-. I minished - by that event, and, that the GoVernatent of ' Sweden felt it so. As the Hon. Gentleman bad alluded to a communication made by him to Mr. Itist, th e Danish Charge d'Affaires, he would briefly athte the fad to the House.. He had been conimandedby his Majesty, after the Dani s h, Fl eet h a d been sur rendered, to make an official communication to that Gentleman; desiring that he might procure powers front the Crown Prince to negotiate an accommoda; tiotl, or to procure passpotts tora Minister to go to Kiel for that purpose. This wee all the official communication; .he bad, however, thought it right to inform Mr. fist of the terms upon which the. accommodation might be, c&Cted. He had Men tioned then the period of three years, as that which • might, after the conclusion of peace, enable one to form a judgment of the stability of the peace;, and certainly those who had witnessed the last peace west be sensible that the period, was not • too long, as iii eighteen months, 4fittr thatpeaee,;we were as much at war as before. Considering that we had gained posse s sion of thelleet by force, he - did not think the stipulation of such a' term any insult, and he: had proposed either to keep the fl ee t i n depo sit, or to take it by purchase.' When he conatiini• cated this fact to the House, he thought it necessary to state why he did not produce the PaFers. As all negotiatious were reattotted on the terms upon, winch they had been ' last broken off, and though he and 'his Colleagues had thought it right to make such ofa tors in thatattstance, it would not follow that they ' should he disposed. to grant the same conditio4 at tk, future period, in thiAllOpe of some such accommo dation his Majesty had even been induced to delay direiiing. the condemnation of the Danish shipping, as well as his Declaration of War, He had no !levi tation to add, that every stipulation had been re quirixt that could be necessary for the security of the Swedish 'territory., But now that war has taken place, it could nut be contended the capture of, the Danish navy did not pro. lento diminish the means ' Of the enemy, whilst it added to our means •of security. Buottaparte well knew, that the Mari time Power of Great Britain 'was the only • impe diment to his universal aggrathlisement, lie would not cease, therefore, to exhaust all the means .he possesses to accomplish the grand object of his ease :on. The trial Lie would snake, and it is only by making it, and its failere, that he is to be con vinced of the ineflictency and fruitlessness of all his designs. He would destroy all commerce in. order tb injure this country, which he identitimaritif it. • Cedet et ipse marl veaor Inc nautica pint o routabji But though lie should direct the whole accumulated three of his vast territories to this purpose, - lie will find all his projects frustrated, until lie can make all nations independent of - Commerce, in coniegnence of their own productions. 4 • (Minis teret amnia teiltii.i. 13y the Expedition to Copenhagen theimeans of the Euenty bad been reduced, and the security of the Country , A.inlenteci. !Thom who tk:tio t ou pv• hey .of that, measure weak and its execution unjust, would certainly vote against him: But he could not consider it a manly way to take the division upon the Motion for Pipers, and not on the merits of the question, merely because some few would vote for ,the Papers, who would not. support a motion for , :censure. Conscious of the prindples upon which he and his colleagues had need, and of the advan tage resulting to the Country from their measure, be should submit to the decision of the House, and meet the Motion with a direa negative. Mr. WINDHAM, after the explanation of Ms sentiments on a former night, had intended to save the house the trouble of hearing him at any length this night; but he could not withhold himself from ,expressing his astonishment at the manner in which the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite had alluded to certain transaaions of the late Administration. It was true, the late Ministers had sent a,fleet to Lisbon, as the present Ministers had sent one to Copenhagen : but there was this difference, that the:late Ministers having precisely the same grounds for' seizing the fleet of Portugal, had declined to act to that.extent upon those grounds that the present Ministers had in the case of Copenhagen. The Right Hon. Gen tleman chose to characterise as a failure, what, in fact, was but a forbearance from the exer tion of force, on the principle that the circumstances which were judged sufficient to warrant that force, had not arisen. The success of the present Mini sters consisted in doing what was improper to be done at all, and what might as welt have been done at any time since the commencement of the war, The late Ministers had general information in .a loose on authenticated form, similar to that stated by the Bight Hon. Gentleman this night, of an attack me aditated by France - upon Portugal, and an army as .sembied for that purpose at Bayonne; but because there was no other information they would not go the length the present Ministers had thought proper to go in the business of Copenhagen. The Right Hon. Geptlenian, therefore, had no reason to exult in a comparison which Made against him, and he may address him in the words of the Poet? i` Can nothing but thine own renroach, " Serve ter a motto roe thy coach t " The Portuguese Fleet was not to have been seized by Earl St. Vincent's, till Portugal refused our ;MCC to defena her territory ; not till she, rejeeted the next alternative a the emigration of the Court, as now, under oer proteetion, to the Bra zils; „and, .lastly, not till advices should have been received of the actual entrance of a French army into Portugal, and till it should he manifest to all the world, arid particulasly to the Portuguese theme selves,' 'that if we did not' tulle possession of the they would be seized by France. He ed that the collusion of the Neutral State, or the inability to resist apprehended force, was a slit& cient reason for securing tho meani of that nett , tral from the grasp of the enemy. jut the necessity should be evident. - He than proceeded to contend at considereble length, that no satisfactory proof had been given of that necessity, and therefore he should support the Moiion; . (We lament very much that the very great length of the Debate and the late hoer , to which the 'louse sat, ren4ers it itnpossible for' os to give airy thing more tli4n a yilry short abstrati of the rein.iluing spec ches.l. 'Mi. MlLcaas, with I.A . ks usual eloquence and ability replied to Mr. WIKAIti4, and opposed the Motion. .44THURSI: went over tbd same Mtu ments as Mr. 'Windham ; I and added, that the taking of Madeira last war was to preserve it from falling into the hands:of the Fret)* Mr. L. E 4514 FOS2lE* the contended, that 'wh ile oTOunds already before the House were amply sufficient to juttify the 'Expedition, His Majesty's Ministers had shewn themselves aliVe to what the honour and glory of the Country required. They were entitled to the highest thanks for acting as they hael'done, and they would have deserved to be im peached it they had 2610 otherwise: • Lord PA,LiiigIiSTONE opposed the Motion ! Mr. MOIWIS went very ininnteiy into the ques tion, 'awl broadly contended, that the seizure of the Danish fleet was 4 violation of no laW, but that it was justified and sanetioned by every , law, when it evidently rested on the necessity ,of self-preservation, which carried With-it every law. It was a hard and, cruel necessity he would allow, but the nature of: our situation imperiously imposed it on us, • Res dura, et regni novitas me tubs cogurtt Moliri. 111 r. I,YTTLETQN followed on the SAme side, and adopted xsiiiiilar line of argument, resting the justification of the measure gpon its necessity. On this occasion he became a proselytp, to thp cause of Ministers; but he feared it was the only one where. he simuld have Such grounds to Warrant .bis defence of them, ; Mr, g.fiITIME.4D contended that suffieient in formation had not beco submitted to the Douse. He asked why the . , whole of the Dispatches from Lord Hutehinson and Lord.G. L. Gower had not been-laid upon the table Lord G. . 1,. Walt Could not forbear making a fovt obiereatiens, having .been .so 4.10c4i1y called upon by the ;Hoc. Gentleman who spoke last. The real cause of the change of mind towards England of the Emperor Alexander,. he conceived to be the dis asters incurred by him in Poland, and the .Undi vided pressure of the. war which he was left to support. Unit change of mind w.as observable long before the attack upon Copenhagen ; for, iro twdiately upon the return of his imperial Majesty to St. Petersburgh, the first person he called upon was his Minister of Marine ; be then set out ter Cronstadt, and ordered the fortifications of that place to be put on the best footing. These measure were not prompted by the Baltic Expedition; nor in,. deed does that make only one point of the many re,peeting which the Emperor Alexander requires satisht6tion in the Russian Declaration : he insists more particdlarly on the re-establishment of peace beWeen France and England, before, he will con. sent to return to the usual .relations of peace and amity with this Country. The Copenhagen' busi ness was not therefore the cause of his alienation from this Country . Nay, were he to judge of the measure from the opinion that was conceived of it by the majority of the people of Petersburgh, so far horn execrating; they expressed the highest approbation of that Expedition ; even those who wished in a' tn`dn.-; ucr toinsulate Russia Irvin the rest of Europe, consi uered themselves as relieved from no small by what had happened to Copenhagen. Without that they still feared to see a Drench army _on their Polish frontier, and another French army on their Turkish frontier. He thought the ground already sufficient on which Ministers rested their j ustitica. lion. . lie was against publishing any furtherofficial notes. He' knew the mischief of it. Often bad Foreign Ministers hesitated confidentially 10 cote' municate with him, lest in a year or so afterwards they should find their communications made public. Lord CASTLEREAGH correCted. many of die errors into which some Gentlemen had fallen in re-• sped to dates. It was not on the inth, but on the' nth July, that Ministers took the King's pleasure reseeaing the instruaions that were given to the • Oilicers commanding the Expedition iu the Baltic; as to the letters being garbled, he could safely say, that all was produced that could with propriety be made public; but this information was wholly dis t i ne t from the secret informatiots respelling the Treaty of Tilsit, He contended, that every thing in the Con duct of Denmark argued a 'desire to enter into a compromise with France. The Danish Govern ment' even refused to give any Atte') pledge or prOsnise that they would not unite with l'reee. As to the complaint of our not retaining posses' sion of the Island of Zealand, it was easily answer-, ed by the opinions given on that subject by Algol experienced Officers, who declared, that to maintain it against the Danes and French would requi, & a force far beyond any thing we were able to spy . A complete and combined blockade of that Island %vas also impossible; mid• superior as our - Nall • was in so many respeas, yet, without the seizure of the Danish Fleet, we should have • boon t lass to keep a force to cotinteraa the naval Os° bination in .the Baltic, without being compelled weaken our line of defence at otherpoints. • Mr. GRcNVIL.LE' said the documents rela' five to the Dardanetles Expedition . would justify tilt: late Ministers in that respect. Mr. Possortay then replied,—The House.divided Ayes ...... toB • • 4- Noes ' . 251 Majority for Ministers - - 545 . .-. MAILS. AttatvxD-1 jantaica, t Malta, Duz—sGtttenbUrg li o I Dublin 6 Waterford, PRICE 01 , STOCKS • THIS UA Y AT TWLI.VIE otcs.oog. Consols - - 6,141 Red. Ann. - • " "I THE SUN. vaism gust DICIRS ,A,LIUM AVDltit L 0 ND 0, N, Tiluitsnny, YILISRUABY 4$ 10084. ti 'z are sorry to state that the Leda rrtigikte agnantkd a few nights ago, and Apprehensickni sly entertained that she will be lost. The crew- howeW are ilrsaved, and it is possible that the Ship Mal b got off. - She was endeavouring to entsr MiUurdi It statedln some of the Papers; of this morning tbat Six &ensign STRACHAN bad Teton:led to bt station, hav i ng given up the pu,rsuit 47,f - the Rob" fort Squadron. There is no foundAion f4t this ' report. Letters were this morning received from Gibral* tar, cfated the t.ith ult. they sLato that the Frer.:ll aged Spaniards openly avowed their intention to con" mange the Siege of that place, and ‘vero inakingtbo necessary► preparatioos. Zia American Ship ilelive has arrived at 11 0 mouth from St. Übe's; a passenger in her,. Wl 3c4 left Lisbon on the 13th January, confirms, the O s port of the Insurrection in Lisbon, but states t 441 there were not so many lives. lost as was repres° ltl cd ; he also a l dds, that the-Minotaur, Si; C. Sl t lot, bad joined Sir S.' Sitrm off the Taps. Our Plymouth Letter 'states, that the Bta le4 Ship Campus, which struck on the rocks on S3tut 4 day, Boated off en the Td, and has been towed into the farbour. . . A Letter, dated Villa Real, toth DeceMberi (IP traded from the Gibraltar Chro lick, gives a dep/ora 4 ble account. of the slate of Portugal since tho ear trance of the French, who, it itays, came as lop* but have *hewn themselves ravenous and blo cj i wolves. Though JUNOT has a large army of Er e°ti and Spaniaats there, he has required more tro o p s ' to complete the subjugation of the country. Government this morning received DisPA ttn " item Jamaica; every thing' is.4uiet tbere ; .the 4 . ent j bly has been prorogued. A most interesting Debate took place last night in the House of Commons, on Mr. PONSONIWIS P 4a+ tion, which was negatived by a very largo NajoritY' Yesterday, about twelve o'clock, His Aisits'f' carne to town from Windsor, to the Queen's Falo€ 4 where the Dukes of Yottx, KENT, .C.U.IBEIII-A 1491 and'Sussax, were in -readiness} to receive him. Soon after two o'clock, Hi s M AJESTY held ai „ l' vete Levee. - 0 INDIA-HOUSE.—Yesterdo a Court of Direc to , was held, when the undermentioned Captains.We's sworn into the com man d o f t h e i r ros'pective 51ii ? ot viz. Capt. STEPLINN tiAWES, of . the:Monarch, teat Madeira; Madras, anci Bengal t. Wu. Liroc i " at the Harriet, Madras au kt Bengal. The Goat sd, journed , at six o'clock till to- morrow. e lu the Court o f King's Bench, yesterday, the of the K ING V. PICTUN, anti that also oldie .I‘ll4a v. DO DD , reepeaing Joint stock C o mpanies,. wdro o f further postpo ne d, i n consequence of Prl'ssury more temporary lousiness. " Lom t pat: : , Printed by R. 114 kit t of AliirtLlt: t frf nii th ".4 54 teetl, and paid:an:A by W. 04. SCRirrs t 4" 144 u 1 14 1 1-6tteell, at Om Sun.'QiNc,,, 112, Strand.