The Sun. — London, England, 1826-03-08 00:00:00

IVB the Colci' would adopt some regulations of their own he had no doubt, without tho, interference of the Government. = The AfitrqOiS of IaiNBDOWN was sorry that the eloquence that his Noble Friend had shOwn blithe present occasion could not have been exerted in the meeting that was likely to take place among the Colonists. Ile had no hesitation in saying, that sooner, or later the whole system of the West Indies would be brought to the test. The test he alluded to was the permanent relation between the Colonial proprietor and the majority of the original population , f the Colony, and those who came to es» lablish themselves there.. Ile wished to draw the attention of .their berdiliips to the conduct of the legislators . When he turned his attention to those legislative proceedings„ which were' -The most indispensably neceSsary,to A well regulated establish ment of any kind, he was sorptised to see the total want of re . gUlar proceedinj; on a i subject of the kind.; Up to the present. inoment( he believed 'bewail ,corect ,Itrstatiog,if not he would call nron'the Noble Lord opposite to correct iiiiii)no one of die, Celooists which was govern ed, by an ,Assembly, with the ex • ception of,libe (the B a s), hell adopted any of those reso- Intidnksithich would have tended to advance the interests of its popaletion.• Ile was grieved to state , P" t " the present mement nesone of the Colonies had A d, latid the law which en. titled a save to' purchase: his matuttnis , ion. In 'hie opinion, there was not a - better line of policy, than to hold nut as a pre. mium to the slave the permission of purclutsing his own Inds. iondenee, ; this at once would tend to excite litm to exert his best entleavoura' towards furthering the objects of the Resolu. :done. a s perfectly willing to coineitle with the Noble Earl in int.ssing Any Act which would torteliorate the condition of the slave. It we. for their Lordships to enforce after the lapse of „ de pkii t h ose net:olutions, the principle of which they well:Petit:MY unanimous in supporting, but which for fear of exciting the population of then.' Colonies (uneducated as they were) to any ;lets or violence, which would discountenance any attritipot to relieve deem for the future. The Bishop , of BATH :anti WELLS had presented *moo ,. r p et iones, a great many of which lied been from the Church , Ile could assure the Noble Lord (Dudley) that slit very was against the laws of' Christianity. Ile was fully aware that free lebour was better than t h at which was extorted by the whip, &te., and he should therefore support the resolutions.— lie had always been for the emancipation of the mind before . that of the body. It was therelbre with feelings of gratifica tion that he had seen the euthorization of the building of elle. pets, schools, &c. at the different Colonies. . Earl ST, VINCENT made a few remarks which were in audible tmlow the Bar. Lord SUFFIBLI) wished to know if there was any definite peried at which the. Colonists were likely to meet. He hoped if would, he soon„ because , two yeurs might elapse, instead of oue„befere the, opinion of the Colonists could give their °pi• pion on the resolutions. Lord ll,l'l'll Misr explained—he had given orders that the -meeting should take, place ns soon as possible, but he could not exactly the.,pcoo4, . The'llishop of Flat NS was afraid that the Ilouse would imagine, from the lack of petitions from Ireland, that it bad no commiseration fir tie unfortunate Mayo. lie could assure the Muse, itowever, that it had, .lle entirely concurred in the ,princitae of the Resolutions. The liesidutions were adopted by their .Lortithips ; and the , other Orders..of the Day being disposed of, the, noose adjourned at ".rs: sr o'Ci.ocx. DOUSE OF coimoNs. mr. mr.tra; 'froth the' Treasitry, presented an Account of *h Average Pritxof Sugars in Ireland. AI ISOM LA NE( WS. Alderman WOOD moved fora RetOro of all the Penalties -under the fifth •Wirgelll. the' Amount of such Penalties, by .whom and to what use they had been appropriated.— Ordered, Nit4Sist4 pretiented a Petition from the town of ilxeter, signed by upwards of twelvo'hundred of its inhabitants, pray. gi/r a ßepeal oft llutilouse anti Whitlow Tux.--Ordered to be printed.' itr li.Pritp if sox pVesenteil t Petition from the Provost and .iNiagistrates'.uf the 1304 , 11 of Dundee against the Tay Salmon fialteryjitU,,-iittferreti to the Committee on the Bill. CHOlCKK,byought up a 'lllll for regulating the service of the ilop.llllllfrine Laml Forces', whilst on shore.—ltead null uiikrctt for, a. second reading to-morrow, and in the interim to be printed. The Report of the 'Fisheries Act 'was read A first time. `Mr. I,OGB il'A ttrettented Petjtion front an 'fndlt ideal :of the name of ,i4dwie'Waril,who had been confined in prison • as A VitgatuAlti, lA4ilVidwirs case, he contended, .was a „very hard one ;lie was by,trade if sand carrier, and had been ap, prthernitli tinder the Aot litt of George M., which authorised a Alagintraic to levy a fine of ten pounds upon every one found hawking without 3 licence. There was, however, 11. Cllllll4O to this Act, awl lit thought thiS individual came particularly under' its proteetiolt. w(,nt to authorise any person who unittufactured wooden wares, 4e...himself, to sell diem without a licence. The petitionefwas, as ho had before. stated, a sand carrier ' he procured this sand from a pit in the neighbourhood, frorri'wlience, he 44 it, and it migbt therefore be fairly that he manufaetured it himself. Upon his exposing It for sale, by was seized and fined ten'potitills, which be could nut pay, and lie was accordingly' cast into prison as a vagrant. The petithAf ; was:brought up, and, laid on the table. Mr, U. 114,14#'i N brought in a Bill to amend the Act for the Return ant t Election' of limbers of Parliament in Ireland. Ikad a first tittei , put a seeond reading' appointed on the .20 April. • Mr. 'S. nitEirriovell that his Motion of yesterday Should be diseharge4 add mewed in lien of it, that.a Iteturn,ol all the' ProatimaryA'4otas,pettl.Pot-Ilin3 of 5L and under„ !skied by the' flank or Ireftikl during the Lst *slit iliatti should be laid before the house. The word Phstalillititits4mittuil by the llinn..Mqober in his stotion yesterday..—Ordered. Mr. SNifTll presented a Petition front the slagistrates ' and'ToWtT Conntil of the City . and Borough of Ayr, in Scot iod,,ragainst ,any alteration in the Currency ef that cOtpltrY.- Ordere'd to tie Fluted. Mr. HUME presented two Petitions, one from the Magis . tratis'indrl'ewn - Council of the Ch} of Brecon, and the other front the Borough of Arbroath, praying the House not to inter fere in the present Banking System of Scotland, and also pray -ingthat the It nom should not be withdrawn from the eirett ' lativn of that Kingdom. The Bon. Member heartily con eurredin the prayer* the Petitioners, and hoped the House would not interfere with the system—Ordered to be printed.' 81.0AVBRY. sic W. i NO E I 4 13 it presented petitions from II ardeastle, end two other places, against slevery.—Ordeteti to be printed.'' Mr. S. ‘I'OIITI,EY presented a petition front the pribeipal inhabitants of the town of Bradfonl, in Yorkshire, against Ida. very, Tlie . Don. Member' also presented petitions from the village-of Shipley and Dreingeein the vicinity of Bradtbrd, to 114 NOW ,fleet.—Thd petitiotta were ordered to be primed. Petitions were presented frinn two towns in Aberdeenshire, by Mr. 11 u air, praying for the gradual abolition of slavery in the Colonies. The petitioners were very willing to owe tor. ward and contribute their share of the expence tatendent upon the , indeninitiGlaloll of the proprietors of such slaves.--.oidered to be' printed. . Mr. W. eiM LTD presented a petition from the Protestant Dlisseriteri retailing in the vicinity of the Cities of London and Weetminster, praying for a gradual abolition of slavery. The petitionere, he said, were most anxious that as coon as possible the slaves :might be emancipitzed and raised to the enjoyment of those civil privilegett in common with the rest of their fellow. creatures. 'The petition was from a most respectable class of men, men of letters, who saw with indignation not unmixed with pity, fellow-creatures • merely from a prejudice on account of their colour, hept in a state of the most unexampled misery and degradation. He (for he felt proud of the honour of being Glassed wide men who, because they came forward to relieve the distresses of the vor suffiling African, had been called saints, enthusinsta, &c. earnestly hoped that the Rouge would devise i.aritL that epee ily) sonic plan to relieve the poor !minting slaves from their state of penance and misery. The Petition was laid On the table and ordered to be. printed. EDUCATION IN IRELAND. Sir J. NEW PORT, in introducing the motion of which lie bed given notice, after n few prefatory observations, called the attention of the Houle to the Report of 11112, of the Commis. flitting% of Education in Ireland, as far as it related to the School at Middleton. The Report stated, that School to have been endowed with 2,000 acres of land, which the trustees had let upon leases renewable for ever at a rent of 2001. per annum. the value of the land being now at least 2,0001. per nnnuin. The Report further owed the manner in which the 2001. per annum was at that time appropriated, viz. 1001. to the Master, 401. to an Usher, and to tour exhibitions to Trinity of 40/. p er annum each, 401. lie would read part of a letter from a relative or his which had recently called his attention to the subject of this school. The letter stated that the writer bad recently retied through the town of Middleton, and heti naturally gone to visit the oehool in which he hadhimself been educated. It expressed his great surprise in finding the fine old building, in which he remembered eighty-four boarders to have been accommodated, now without.roof, and in ruins. The master had been residing for the last ten years lie Dublin, where he received not only his own salary, but the whole fond of 1601. per " nu m, and did not educate any body. The only part of the taltool-house whiek remained tenantable was new occupied by a sc rjeant of police. This, said the lion. Member, was the • 1 . that Ireland had. produced were educated. fie wguolushilied m lo. e l i tion only the, name ot Mr. Conan. lie contended that it was t h e duty of the Board t)t Education' to have funds ,were wanting to applied to the Lord Lieutenant, If, , repair the building. The Lord Lieutenant had , by Act of Parliament, a fund at his disposal for such purposes. Consi dering of whom the Boned of Education e,onsisted, the Lord Primate, several Bishops, the Provost of Trinity. College, &c., it might have been expected not to neglect its duty. If the ancient foundations were thus suffered to go to decay, whilst at the same tune applications were continually made to that House, to supply funds for the pinposes of education in Ire land, watt obvious that no satisfactory progress could ever be made. He had visited the spot, and the situation was in every respect most suitable for a seminary of education. —Two out of the four presitt Trustees were the Bishop of Cork and the Sovereign of 3litidleton. He quite agreed with the Report of the Commissioners, that the grant of the laptl was highly quesdonahlo It was monstrous that two thousand acres of land, in the best part of the county of COrk, and let snore than ten miles front the city, should he let for two hundred pounds a year. And it was st,ll more so that this 2001. eyear should be so misapplied. Ile hoped whenever the House should be called upon for grants of money for the furtherance of Education in Ireland, that some fixed, settled,: and systematic plan would be adopted, so that they might not continue to frustrate with one hand what they did with the. other. He had made several ineffectual attempts to place the grants made from time,to time, under some responsible regula-' tion. Ile should however persevere, and should certainly take. the sense of the House upon the next grants that were moved, rather than stiffer them to he made in the loose and scattered manner which had hitherto prevailed. It was desirable that the Right lion. Gentleman should now explain upon what plan he meant to proceed this year. Ile should conclude by moving for "An Account of the application of all sums of money, granted during the last session, for the furtherance of Educa tion in Ireland." , Mr. OULTLBURN trusted that the Right lion. Baronet would not think it in the slightest degree disrespectful towards him if he failed to give a direct answer as to the plan upon which Government intended to proceed this year. 'rho question was still under the consideration of the Commissioners, and pending their enquiries it was impossible for Government to determine upon any precise line of conduct. As fur us the plan of the Commissioners bad been communicated to the Irish Government it had not been backward to promote them. As an instance of the proniptitude of Government, he might mention that an ini methate order had been given to suspend a particular mode of obtaining admission into the Chartered School's as soon as it was known that that mode had fallen under the animadversions of the Commissioners. All he could say upon the general sub feet of education was, that it would be ins duty to attbrd ample time for deliberation upon any estimates or plans he might have to present for its promotion. With reference to the other part of the Right Bon. Baronet's Speech (lw meant that which re- dated to the school at : Middleton), lie was quite unacquainted with the circumstances, till, in consequence of, die communica .tion Feb, thellight 11 on.- , Barunet had had the Courtesy to tneke to him yesterday, he had referred to documents already before the House. , •From these he found that the school at Middleton' had been under the management of special Governors, and was therefore not subject to the power of the Commissioners. The complaint, !loft a person of the nameof Prior who had been up pointed in the year 1799 by the Governors — ."!4r Joust NEwrouT was understood to say that he had not attached any blame to the Governors. 00111,11U1tN continued—This complaint would pro . perly tall under the cognizance of the Governors, who Were the Earl or Shannon, the Bishop of Cork, Dr. Stoptord, and the ' Sovereign of Middleton. He found that an estimate had been made of die expence which the repair of the building would oe eaeion, which amounted to three thousand pounds.. A legal opinion had also been taken upon the validity of the grent ; but it NA not been of a nature to encourage the institution of. pre, ceedings. Ile would repeat that the master was appointed .by the Governors; that they were the visitors, and that they only were responsible. • . Mr. S. RICE took the same view of the subject as the Bight lion. Member for %Waterford. Mr. tiOULBURN ,that lie would be ready, upon due notice, to meet any. general discussion" upon the subject. F. LEWlS:Attended the conductor the Board of Edu cetion—the practical meataires they were, pursuing would not have the effect of postponing their reports, with the exception of one report respecting Maynooth, and that only for one year. Their opinion of the merits orate plan they were pursuing had undergone no change ; it was true that they had met with greater difficulties than they had anticipated, but none which they considered insurmountable.. If in the end they should be compelled to relinquish their plan, tliCy Would' be able to ren der a satisfactory account of the Manner in which they had 'Spent their time. Mr. PLUNICErr, as a Member of the Board of Educa. Lion, would beg leave to say a few words upon the subject of the School at Middleton. The 'Governors and Visitors had acted. .upon their own responsibility ; and it' they were not within the letter, they were certainly within die spirit the - exemPtions from the authority of the Commissidners. lie bore. testimony to the respectability of the master, who had eon ducted the school for many years . ' very successfull y ; but had, ' he believed, been compelled to abandon it from the dilapida.' Lionedifice. on of the Mr, PEEE, said, that ho was prepared to go a step further than his Right lion. Friend, who had expressed a doubt whe ther the - Act gave any power to the Conunitisionerit in the ,ease of this school, but if upon further inquiry it should appear that the'power existed, had promised that it should be exerted. lie was of °Onion - that if the Act of 1013 did not extend far enough that it was very desirable it should be amended. It ntver could have been intended that Idol. per annum, of the funds of this school, should be given to any individual per forniing no duties. If the schoolhouse had become unfit liar habitation, these funds ought to have been applied to its r e sts. , ration. • The lease of 2,000 acres of land at a rent of 2001. per annum, was a circumstance which demanded inquiry. Mr. N li:1"1`. explained. • N NEWPORT observed upon the general disposi. tion of trustees in Ireland to 'job away hinds—there could not be more striking examples of the general disposition than the instance beil,re them. The Countess of Orkney had left this: land,' and it was boon 'afterwards jobbed away by a lease made hq the trustees, one of whein• was • a man of great eminence, Allan Broderick, successively a Member of Parliament, both in Ireland and England. Ile would repeat—that if the House wiis ties habitable, a report' to that etreet would have been made by the Bishop of Cork, and the revenue of the master applied to repair It , - Mr. GOPLBURN thought It but right to state, to obviate anymounderstunding to the prejudice of the present trustees, that the lease was made so long back as 1710. Sir JOHN NEW PORT had expressly stated that it had been made by Allan Broderick, who had been a member of the 'Legislature of both . kingdoms. The motion was then e ut and carried. CONTMIIPT OF COURT. Mr. BUM rose to move for en account ofall personsconfined in the Fleet and other prisons for contempt of Court. Ile had fernicrly moved for a similar return, and also for an ac. count of all persons for contempt who had died in prison. From the returns laid upon the table in pursuance of that motion, it appeared that upwards of 20 prisoners of that class had died in prison, many of them having undergone imprisonment for twenty years, end some even for thirty-four. These persons had generally been in a state of great poverty, and when it was recollected that a Bill in Chancery might be filed by any perian, or upon any s ubj ect , without any reference to the justice or injustice of the claims, and that an answer could not be put in without great expense, the failure of such persons to put in their answer could not excite much surprise. Ile would men don the instance of two persons, M r. and M Ts. Dawson, husband and a ife, who had beenimprisoned for nine years for alleged contempt of court, and both died in prison. They both us serted that they were utterly unacquainted with the person who' had sent them there, or with the cause for which they were seat.. There Were other eases of persons who had been in prison some for 11, sonic for lByenrs upon the vague charge of contempt. By the returns laid before time House, on the 11th of July, 1020, it appeared there were then 31 persons in prison. He begged the attention of the flight Hon. Secretary tbr the Home De. pertinent to the circunistances he was about to state. None of the reforms on which he was so laudably engaged could be more important than that which these circumstances would ap. pear to call for. Ile would only mention a few instances. He had sent a person to time Fleet Prison preparatory to his present motion, but the Marshal refused, he did not know why, to afford any information. His motions would therefore be taken from the former returns. Time first Instance he should mention was that of Hannah Barber, who had been committed on the 30th July, 17119, upon a writ of rebellion—for the forms of law were ea absurd that if any body owed him 101. he must declare, that with sticks and staves, and all manner of violence, they took the money from him, when in point of fact he had handed them over the money very quietly. He would read a copy of this Bill of Rebellion. The Hon. Member here read that Bill, by which it appeared that she had neglected to pay a sum of money into Court. Upon that Bill, the poor woman had continued in prison between 30 and 40 years, end had at last died there.._. Now, indeed, a clause had been introduced into the Insolvent Act, in virtue of which, persons committed by the Court of Chancery, for non-payment of money, could apply for their release. But although the Insolvent Court had the power of relieving them, as far as the debt was concerned, they would Still remain in prison for the amount of the costs. The CH mind Law of the country was much less severe than the Court of Chancery. If a man was convicted of any offence against the law, he had some definite period of' Imprisonment or some regulated punishment to undergo; but if he fell under the diem. pleasure of time Court of Chancery, his punishment watt entirely without limit. The Honourable Member mentioned snottier case of a female who was committed for contempt, and died in the prison after being there Seventeen years. 'A person being Most innocently involved in a Chancery suit might be pre vented from putting in his answer, and for that incur all these penalties and expenses. There were cases in Which the Lord Chancellor had himself paid the expenses, and released the parties This proved the hardship of the law. —He trusted that the Attorney ! General would provide a remedy in the 11111 - , which, it was understood, be was to bring in upon the report of the Commission just laid before the House. He wished to see the incarceration done away with al together. Indeed he was one of those Who would do away en tirely with imprisonment for debt. It would be much more consistent with the spirit of the times, and he was..convince4 would greatly lessen the mischievous disposition to give credit which was so injurious to trade. The Hon. Member then moved for a return of the names of the several persons committed to the custody of the :11arshal of the Fleet Prison, and other gaols in the United Kingdom, under processes issuing out of the Courts of Chancery and Exchequer ' since the 11th of July, 1020 ; stating what persons have died,been discharged. or now remain in confinement. Also of the number of persons who were confined in the same gaols . on the 11th of July, 1820, stating how many have died, how many have been discharged, and at what time. The AWOL?, N HY-GENERAL said, that as the lion. Member's motion was only for a continuation of former returns, he should not object to it. He did not feel it necessaty to follow the Hon. Gentleman into his details, he would only say, that as the Iteport of the Commissioners for inquiring into these subject s . would soon be before the House, a Bill would be introduced, if necessary, to carry their recommendations into effect. There were only one or two observations of the Hon. Member upon which he would offer any remarks. With respect to the appli cation of the Insolvent Act to costs as well as debt, if the Act did not so apply, it was competent f or t h e H ouse to ma k e i t applicable. He was not prepared to say at the moment what the exact provisions of the Act were upon this point; but sup posing it to be as the Hon. Membe r h a d state d, he should be willing, for one, to make the alteration. The other recommen dations of the lion6Urable Member, as to the commitment, for contenting, involved other considerations. If this power were to be abolished, they might as well abolish the juris. diction of the Courts of Chancery at once. Supposing a bill to be filed for the purpose of compelling an important discovery, and the party obstinately refused to answer, the only means of enforcing the ends of justice was the power which the Court possessed of imprisonment for contempt. lf, therefore, they destroyed that power of commitment, they de stroyed the Courts of . Chancery altogether. No man could be in the situation supposed by the Honourable Member, of being committed for contempt, because he was unaware of the ne cessity of putting in his answer. No proceedings could be taken, in any Court in this Country against a man until mitica was served upon him either by subptrsa, or in some other form. But if a man chose to refuse an answer after notice had been given him, and went to prison, and there ob s ti nate ly re fused to comply with the demands of justice, was he to come at the end of twenty years and complain to that Hous e of the hardship of his case ? He did not mean to say that the poor man who was unable to meet the expences of the Court, ought to be impri soned. and he found from the Act which had been put into his hands, that what the lion. Member had stated with regard to it was an example of his accuracy, and a proof that the House ought never to take his statements without the means of ascer taining their truth. The Honourable Member had said that the Insolvent Act only applied to persons confined in the Fleet Prison in respect to debt, and not to costs. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman then read the clause in the Act, which distinctly specified its application to costs. This was a speci men of the danger with which the positive assertions at' the Hon. Member must be received by the House without the most careful investigation. When the general question came before the House, he should be ready to meet it ; and lie `would now cant:int himself with broadly asserting, that if they gave up the Courts of Equity in this country, they must aban on the Common Law. No man acquainted with the practice of the Common Law could fall to know that it was impossible to carry it into effect without the existence of the Courts of Equity. Upon broad principles—he said nothing of details, for he hail no doubt that correction might be applied in detail—but upon broad principles he would .assert, that the system of Equity in this country was so admirably adapted to its wants, that not the ingenuity of man, not of any body of men, could devise an improvement. _ _ Mr. LOCkHAUT said, he did not expect that any one would deny the justice of imprisonment where the parties re. fused to answer when the rights and interests of others required that they should do so. He disapproved of that provision in the Insolvent Act, by which persons confined fur contempt were enabled to escape when they had spent the money which belonged, perhaps, to infants, orphans, or rent„ es covert. Ile objected. to the general propo s ition s o f the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, in respect to the Courts of Equity. Mr. HUME complained in very warm terms of being " sailed by Ignorance, " when the lion. and Learned Gentleman himself had shown himself ignorant of the law until the Act was placed iu his bands by the Right lion. the President of the Board of Trade. lie was not bound to know the law, hut the Right, lion. Gentlemen were. The A ttorney.General ought to have the law at his fingers' ends. and not be obliged to look for it in books and Acts of. Parliament. He contended that no one could understand the proceedings of the Court of Chancery, for he had endeavoured to make them out in vain. Ile once read 50 or fill folios of such proceedings, and asked somebody what it all meant " Oh," was the answer, " turn to the last folio, and these you'll find the meaning of it all in three lines." -The lion. Member concluded by again warmly protesting against the attempt to put him down by a charge of Ignprance, when so nine!' ignorance hid been betrayed where parties ought not to have been ignorant.—(This Speech Occasioned loud and frequent bursts of laughter.) The ATTOUN HY.GbNERA L shill, " I will tell the Hon. Gentleman the difference between his case and mine. He us. serted that the fact was so, and I, not being in the habit of contradicting Gentlemen when they make confident assertions, without having materials upon which I can chew them to be mistaken. 4 said that 1 could not speak as to the particular words of $ complicated Act. But when that Act was put into my hands, I was warranted in *hewing that the assertion of the lion. Gentleman was wrong, and I then appealed to the House, and cautioned them against believing his other statements, until they had the means of judging whether they were of the same character or not." Mr. H BiE explained, and the'motion was agreed to. 1111811 NEWSPAPERS. Mr. HUME said that he had a motion to make upon a sub. ject which he hail before brought under the attention of the House. He alluded to the appropriation of 7,000/. as Procla mation money in Ireland. In 1821 he moved for returns, spewing that this money was made for bribery amongst the Government Newspapers in Ireland. By the return of May, 1821, it appeared that papers which only published CO or 70 impressions, received more o f thi s money than others which published ten or twelve hundred. There .was an inaccuracy in the last reture which compelled him to move now for another shewing the number of stamps issued to each newspaper in Ireland, for the last five years, and the amount paid to each newspaper in each year of the money voted by Parliament for Proclamation* in Ireland. Mr. °MILBURN said that he should not object to the motion, and that be should not make use of argunlClWluntil the documents were before the House. The motion was agreed to. Mr. HUME moved for a series of returns of great length re specting prosecutions in the E xc i se , Customs, Sunup, and Tax Offices. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, be did not object to the returns—but the Lord knew when they could be ready. If the Hon. Umber could get them, he was very welcome to them; but, before moving, he hoped the Hon. Gen. datum had calculated what they would cost.--A gree d to . PROMISSORY NOTES BILL.X.O The CHANCELLOR of the EHEQUER moved th e N O t r ) t t l es er H ot i ' ll. the Day for the third, reading of th © Promissory lIAAIILTON said, that before the Bill was read a third time he wished to explain, that the support he gave it was rather upon theprinciple of returning to Cash Payments, than upon the mode in which this measure was calculated.to effect that object. - After recapitulating his objections to the details of the Bill,. the Noble Lord said he should not hold himself responsible tor its success. 111 r. UALCRAFT said there was nothing in the state of the Howie or of the question which invited much observatlon. He had given notice o f an Am e ndment at this stage of the ,but he should conte n t hi mse lf w ith opposing the measure a lt oget h er , and in taking the sense of the House upon it if he teem! any one willing to support him. Ile described the measure as a Bill of Pains and Penalties directed against the Country Bankers. It was an ce port facto law directed against those parties, at the suggestion oftlie Government, who had been more to blame than any other body of men in producing the state of things which now unhappily existed. He thought it coed not be dented that the agitation of this measure in Parliament had produced the most disastrous effects in contracting the currency, and throw. ing great numbers of the poor out of employment. H e cou ld hardly hope to stop the progress of this measure now, but he w asconvinced that no decision of the House could confer more R benefit upon the community than one which wo u ld re j ect the Bill at this stage. Sir It. HE ON agreed with the Hon. Member f or Ware, ham, that the Country Bankers had been unjustly held up to odium and contempt. He thought the best measure for the re. lief of the country would be an effectual reform in its institu tions. Alderman SMITH said a few words, but cou ld not be dis tinctly heard. Mr. J. MARTIN sa id th a t he could not agree in. t h e pr i ne i., ple of the J3ill. Ilea return of the number of 'e held in his hand banking houses against which commissions of bankruPtcy had I been issued within a certain number of years, amongst which he perceived a respectable house in Tewkesbury, which had not been gazetted, altbough - it made a temporary suspension .of its, payments HeAlsought in common ,fairness that. , the Hon. Member (Mr. Willie, we believe) who, had moved for theie re turns should else move for a return of th'enumber of these bank ruptcietwhich had been superseded during the same period. 111 r. ROBERTSON estuntited the amount of gold in France and the Netherlands, to be abouvone hundred millions, vhich taken together f ith the gold circing inlike er condnen talscOu ogg ntries, hkie lliki sch to about tlit4hura ions i ihip s t posing the fifty-two luillions of goltt tlYbkitbstliA froko the . Continent, he contended that the value'of the metallic currency would be increased more than, in the , proportion of Sit t 0,200 : it would be increased nearly one ball, an obvious case of hard ship on those who were bound to pay taxes 'in money thus raised at least a third in value above the rate at which they had been voted. The difficulty was heightened by this circum stance, that while the value of the circulating medium in creased, that of commodities would be proportionately dimi nished. To instance in the case of . corn ; wheat, which now sold at Ms. would fitll so low as 305., and other articles would be liable to a similar depression, till a total change would take place in the affitirs of, the community. Without an artificial capital he thought that the burthen of the public debt could never be sustained. _ _ Mr. C. WILSON said that in Lancashire the most extensive frauds were carried on, not by means of bank notes, but by bills of exchange. In Cumberland and Westmorelan d, where the bankers had made their notes payable at home only, they had maintained their credit unimpaired in the general convulsion, which circumstance supported the opinion he had expressed upon the former occasion, that those banks whose notes were made payable in London u ere not always supported by a larger capital than were those whose notes were payable only at the place where they were issued. He also expressed a hope that measures would be taken to render the forgery of bank notes more difficult than it was at present. Sir F. BLAKE said he voted for the Bill, because it pro fessed to return to cash payments; but as the principle of the Bill had been subverted, by allowing the Rank of England to issue their notes until the 10th of October next, he could see no reason why the same indulgence should not be extended to .the country bankers. He understood that it was the intention of the Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Ex. chequer) to extend the provisions of the Bill to Scotland, but he was sure the feeling of that part of the kingdom was opposed to its introduction, although doubtless they must submit if such a pt.:weeding obtained the sanction of the Legislature. The House then divided— . • For the Third Reading - - 108 - - Against it . 9 Majority in favour of the Bill • —99 On our return to the Gallery, Mr. ABERCROMBIE was addressing .the House upon a clause by way of rider to the Bill. His objections were directed against the provision which empowered the Bank to issue small notes till , the • 10th of October. It would be more manly, he said, to permit them to issue for the whole three years, since there was, practically, no restraint upon such issues. It was singular enough, too, that the apprehensions which caused the amendment were proved to have been unfounded by accounts which were since received. He supported the Bill, when it was first proposed; but he slid so now with reluctance, because of the amendment, which he considered as fallacious in.its terms. —lf any real fears existed, is clause should have been intro duced, restraining Bank issues after the lOth of October; but as the clause stood, permitting their issues till the 10th, it was a mere deception, meaning that Country Bankers should not issue, but that the Bank of England might. He would move that the words " 11th of February," should be substituted for the words " 10th of October," in the Act. The following Clause, by way of rider, was then read a first, second, and third time, and carried—" That any draft or bill drawn by any person on any Banker or other person, for the payment of money held by such Banker or other person, foi the drawer should not come within the restrictions of the Act." Mr. HUME moved, that a clause should be introduced to compel the Bank of England and all Country Bankers to make Monthly returns of the amount of their issues, distinguishing , the number of U. and IV. notes. Mr. HOBHOUSE seconded the motion, as essential to the information which the House ought to possess, since the propo -1 sitions for deposits on the part of the bankers, And for snmmary process in recovering the amount of notes, had been rejected. 1 It was objected, that they were legislating for the country bankers. To this he answered, that they were legislating fur the country at large ; and for himself he could declare, that be entered into the consideration of the question without any invi dious feeling. On what principle could country bankers refuse to chew the extent of their dealings in the currency of the country, when there was no exposure of names or of amounts ? If Alinisters did not now adopt some good system with regard to banks, they might be certain of having the question shortly before them again. He was afraid. that the Chancellor of the Exchetmer would oppose the clause, though lie could not con. cave why. Ills Bill was originally brought in upon a good principle, and would have been most useful, had he cerried it through with that firmness which had distinguished the 'nea r sure proposed by the Right lion. President of the Board of. Trade, whose . convincing and powerful speech embraeed the question upon grand and general principles without regardrto it is n u ce i l i l l or om O m f t ig he ht E h jt a V e le c tcr i. thus firmly fi Pe rn t i t l y y met int th ti4 e op i p i ol d iti t o h n e to e l li t ma oi n i d r. e ,, d 4 tl f4 ter u itt j u l le i sc w e a n s ce st o w t; y th t e h ' a l t ln t n li k e ers. question - had not beepreL ferretl to a Committee, which would ha ve P revente d the cr ude and mistaken notions day after day arising in theafaitie upon the subject. The effect of Banker s m a ki ng deposite inlhe amount of their issues would be to stamp such a value upoptbeir paper as would drive all gold out of circulation, As to the • ,proposition which required them to furnish monthly or, annual 1 Accounts of their issues, he was opposed to it, because a prejn: dice had been excited against the bankers, of which he, forone,' could not sufficiently complain ; that prejudice was already so disastrous, that it had caused the ruin of many honourable and h o n e st men. ,While the Bankers werein such atttate,why should the House require such a disclosure of their . private c o n e rns? The CH A NCELLOR of the HUH EQ UE It could /inure the lion. 3lember for London, that he had no conummicatiOn on the subject of his Bill froM the country bankeri, nor had any observations upon it reached him but those which he bad heard in the Hose. His objection to the proposed clause rested upon general principles. If a banking company had been esta. blished with any peculiar advantages, such as that company, for which another Bill was to be read a second time that night, or if these were a c h ar t ere d company— i n such a case , where privileges were enjoyed, be thought that some accounts ought to be rendered. But, In the present case, he did not favour the notion of putting the Treasury in possession of the private transactions of a Bank, as such a proceeding might be Government ex tremely prejudicial. It w as sa id i n d ee d that Government might e se fo a re d t i lle u n re i t . io ß n B ut to opublishi might ng or suppressing client to publish ; anti at all events the House had the power of compelling publication whenever they pleased. Another think the prop proper accounts to with hold statements, which the House would think it quite expo. objection to the clause was, that it was inoperative, as imposing no penalty for a violation of the Enactment. It required that Bankers should furnish accounts of their issues ; but it assigned no punishment for snaking either no return or an inaccurate one. Now an inaccurate return might be of the utmost importance to a Bank ; and in such a case the proposed cause was totally nugatory, without a penal clause to support it. Its consequences might be very mischievous. as inaccurate information might with impunity be presented to Government, which would lead both them find the public astray. Mr. H. GURNEY thought it would be inconvenient to en. cumber the Bill with clauses. Mr. PEA USE said, that attempts had been made to render aie Bank of England note less liable to imitation. Alderman HEYGATE considered the issue of money as ne cessarily subject to rules of public benefit. At the present time they were arguing in the dark as to the amount of issues. The Bank of England might be regarded ass private establishment, and yet it furnished accounts of the quantity of paper which it circulated. Upon what principle, then, could country banks refuse to do. the same ? ' He was !satisfied the time, however, was not far dist an t w h en t h e H ouse would be obliged to legis late afresh on this subject, and it would be a great improve.. ment if Government were to throw into the currency notes which should in fact be as well secured as our Exchequer Bills. He sincerely hoped, however, that the House would not be disappointed in the results of the measure of remedy now pro. Posed by the Bill under discussion. Mr. EI4I4ICE ,was glad to find that since Christmas last not less than 3,000,000/. sterling in sovereigns had entered into the circulation of the country, Which shewed it was not so difficult to replenish the supply of sovereigns as had been ima g i n ed. Mr. Secretary. PEEL wished the House to recollect, that in the issue of 11. notes by the Bank, the Government was a sha rer in the responsibility of that issue. Not that he intended to admit that it would have been necessary, under circumstances so im perative, that his Majesty's Ministers were bound to o b ta i n the acquiescence of the Bank before it had resolved to adopt so important and and_ desirable a measure, under the p.ressin.g2434exigen cies of the period. • Mr. MONCK contended, that though, as th e Ch ancellor of the Exchequer had observed, there was no penalty prescribed by the Bill, that it was clear it must come under the general description of offences of this nature, a nd be considered in the eye of the law as a misdemeanour. The House then divided amidst loud cries of question. Ayes . . . - . 1 MSPrlty against Ow clause . —ll9 On our re. mission, Mr. HUME was on his legs addressing the House, and attempting to persuade the House to assent to a Resolution that the country had in tact suspended its payments, and that the holders of I/. and 21. - notes were no longer em powered by law to demand the payment of such notes on de mand. He concluded - by moving that a clause should be in serted m the present Bill to compel the payment of Country Bank notes by Country Bankers, in same way as had been en acted by the nth (leo. 111., with this difference, that the said Act had made such payMent•cotptialsatory in three days, and that in the present Bill the paynTent should** compdOble at the expiration of to days after deniand. Mr. JOHN SMI 11, though he give eretils:letgood inten tions to hN.Borti Friend;sthought the clause he lied atteteted l 16 introduce would have the e ff ect of creating generarconfusiori in public credit; and- revive at once that panic which was, he believed, happily fast SubdOing. The consequence of such a 'chase would be the empowering every person holding ten one pound country bank notes, to demand payment in the legal eur rency, and an refusal the holder would be entitled to put thew into the hands of a Notary, and compel the country banker to pay in the fee of noting every separate note, and the value of the note itself which would in general enfoece payment to double the amount of the issues of such banker. After a few words from-Mr. H unsow Or UNEY, the bring• ing up of the clause was negatived Without a division. Mr. A BEIWROM 111 E. moved that the words " the 10th of October" should be substituted by the words " bth day or February," which was negatived without any discussion. The Bill then passed without a division, and was ordered to be sent to the Lords. COMMITTF;E OF SUPPLY. rter the Mr. 13ROGDEN appeared at the Bar with the R e p o Committee of Supply. A fu.ir a few words from the CHla" CELLOR of the Excirequen and Mr. Lionuousic on the point of form, the report was brought up. Mr. HOBHOLISE rose to express his i n t e ntion to oppose the 'grant of so large a military establishment as that which his Majesty's Ministers had hitherto proposed should be borne by the exhausted resources' of this country. The Noble Secretary of War had as yet given no reason, in his speech or reply. why , in the eleventh year of peace,.so large a militery establishment should be maintained, at so enormous an expence. Ile should ; hare told the House what funds he expected to draw upon-- what prospects he had of future prosperity—to entitle the Ser vant:sof the Crown to - induce the House to open its purse thus inipievidently, and Consent to that excessive augmentation on a peace establishment, unprecedented in the annals of this eon. try during a period of public tranquillity. The amount ef gm'sr taxation in the present year was equal to 52 millions of money for Groat Britain. The amountof taxation in 1017 was nearly one million less ; and yet in the yeer 1022 the House, actu ated by the Agricultural inteteit, and encouraged by the influence of Government itself, passed . a resolution that every possible say ing should and ought to,be etlecttal in the civil departments of Government, midi - nom particularly ' lure and numerical strength of th.... military force of this country. In that year too the Government had felt it its duty to reduce, our military establishment 12,000 men. Notwithstanding all this, soon after, the Noble Lord proposed an augmentation of nearly 13,000 men, including the Veteran Battalions. Now he wished to know Why So large a force was wanted in Canada, in the Colonial possessions, in the lonian Islands, and the West in the amount of expendi- Indies ? And more particularly, why so large a force in the Household Troops and the Foot Guards, unless it were to keep up an imposing force of unconstitutional and improper purpOset.., it became the House now to Interfere and say at once, 1 31 7. a3 the duty of Government to restrict the mil'tary force within the bounds prescribed by a vote of that House, in the year 1112 0 1022, he did not know which. Yet with all this impro vidence, . there were no. less titan in three successive weeks, sixty-one--ninety-one—and eighty-four bankntptcies publl.lY atwonhnlioctliiii2i.i,2le: .had augmented .: 1 1,01 V rou a e s ne t t ec h ,: i o s siod i ud p ne e nn r zy i c o /I for the Noble Lo rd to come. ' downind propose the maintenance of so large a military forFei_ mode of computing it) 13,800 Metedin:a.tritlYihethiowdales tahnel°stitanttelf. itihniillk: they had been even when such a redaction had been c 024 were more pressing and alarming at the resent dered necessary. As it was on record that in the year 1134 14 ,L.,", military force of this !Country wus, exclusive of troops serf it e ' s the Report of the Committee—" in the East Indies, 09,088 men, and that our present force w en, to be taken at 84420 men, making an increase of 17,1 r2 . °1 _ n o f he felt justified in moving an Amendment to the recep_trour., to reduce thesanie,to as no change had taken place in our foreign relations or inte r s f _. nal condition to require such an extension of our military ~, , , , frf . as that now proposed by the Noble Lord, that it was cxneat'"' Lord PALMERSTON - observed that ,I b lie cou reed, tougems, he perfectly agreed i n the tbe : g m et o l u e r n u t i o p f r : n7c,oilesntile)nati t t h 01:121.: :ou r acquiesce in the 'application of the lion. Member's atind it e , s t period it was expedient to reduce the military forceccuty country . to that ininimum,'whiclr might be strictly n that for the public service. Ile would confidently asser t ' t ;,, the (it. that. i i a e i s t n the i I n r ' t a r a s e l: c e fl o h hm TA That it appears to thisll e had never attempted to persuade the House to acquiesce . __, vote of 11122, oo the ground 'of internal danger either at ti ner eo force,. andlt hturitt fact failed from the exigencies jest to navel influences and .foree now in' Canada and the West Indies, ifTlici.."lesori B itte_ d sot t wt t r h eri e seo e i x bm i e i wc e p ri vror ni iin e f n go t u l nn i , a do d troe b b. eeenintsriunie de:ties; food not materially to exeeed that of 1792, although d w--4 so , . three reginients 'of the line, of which nine regiments vifeZbich home; there were but twenty-two thousand infantrytor , 0 ",, A „ only eleiM ' 'thousand were efilctire in consequence of ",; i ; depots fotrilert*ing in this, :country to supply 0 1100 foreign stations, of which . there were tats 011d . ,,if ' Novo • abroad, besides twenty Regiments in the bur"' pt supposing that each regiment remained abroad ten yeers,_lo regiments must Ise annually sent. abroad and as the reitunla , out would not remove thence till replaced by the others on in o t i e ; excitement. Trieuritr wseireaneighstio; ' way tint, must be alWays 14,000 men engaged: in front% changing to keep up the force in the Colonies. Petalc ui r t s od' available at home for general this 4,500 men in the different regimen" of the Glia V° Household troops, there would be but four or five regl„.,„d grounds for his opposition to the motion would sato!. 0 , the House to convinze every Member who heard tha t ter s c wh pe °l a o :siii r i r : n g el l nl e e tot d ' i Yil i ve )i ' wr se a t t : r t t i h t : tt te il ene lh : les a ig n e istnt te ll i l l it p i l e lu yg tote m er t'i n eri s i p a ra t e i i : est iesrdc i rst "t i eraias g i l d ts n v dr i a li t t si c ap e r in' ll t : yi ,, l teirpo ls i e l l it ca g : : 4 : f ni l i c i t sl et es l o : a e l f ti o intl aa .Pi pf ee nt p irru i e c; c hi t year, nlen introduce" purposes. He hoped tbor uifj 2 s t l n ie u i c it h i d ie, ece ita iv te ed i , m in w d i e ) e e d s , h i o f u a i n d y v o o n te e m t i vl t i l o ils too oc k ca, tl s t a it a ni d in e i r n ie g s t o h f es . e ilsa jp v .o a i: u 7teiyin e lear,b a :r n ,ao t ai l is u dht n , t , b c u l n e tl a e r d th c e ha o rg al e i s ery wo o u ) ld oll„ tl" with his elpo\ d i u tr : ecw y i e to i riti himselfthe l a i n e: l io i r l its conatituente.—Wouil ca e Report it - The House divided, and the numbers were as . follow l • 10; - - . . 34 ..., ----' - rata MERCHANT 1 Iliepial AND ln)dl e F t t lem C let T i le Resolutions -uietoi occasion cti°aPnl: ll :atri l'1113 0 111;711' Th hber..isz:oo.iuni a nil : to l l : I plalrSnte:. enableOgoo(N I ps a r r ttoli e : elle x: e i a i ln t ail i i v niligy e k. , btotel apply tto-morrow d a e t positthede lawiotolifoi l_ ,.. A u t i ch epia s cil o s ! and A 1 F r . ft i c I t o l - r i Contingenciea to-morrow. the 1 of I‘ l l i r r ...l v l . E s l i t , l y ti: g to ave notice that he should moo t " .. 00 1, CIO "4 n rt.adtngot the Usury Bill was po stponed, MUTINY 811 r , - ► Atilt Lord P.1.1.3iE1a i ''' • • Moony Brox nought in the Military ~,,,,,e0w.1 . .„ which was read the first time. Second reading to-. 7 4 , -- .gm The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, tend adjourned at TWELVE O'CLOEK; P • 7ltfhaiirlYst.debatewas likely 14 e LIST OF T --.. HE MINORITY coontrY Of 2.1, on I .llr. Flume's Motion for Compelling the, oo is ALI Bankers to make a Return of the Amount of thdr '''' Circulation. R 11 11,0 ‘ Abercromh) . r,lln.J. Heron, Sir it. TierneY,-- t • Duneannon, Visct. Kniht It. Webb, Fd. o n Jas. Wood, I. Evans, , WI Nacdonald, li . n. Wilson, SiTJ' , "'Pt Visa. Johnson, Col. . Warre, .1. it• Ellice, El illonck, J. 13. Guist, Sir W. ' Newman, R. W. Wyvlll, IV' d 11'. xvo , s. Gralvin, Sir S. Ora, W. d Grenfell, Paseoe Pares, Thos. ihtme, T. y , c. lienat e , 4V. Russell, lAI G. W. goblions.et LIST OF TII.F. ;WNORXTY „10.0bc, Of 9, who voted a ga in s t .the passinkr of the 1,391tg,-17‘' Circulation of Small, lSoteti. , der nion Reach, J. Heyrtate, II . ' IV OO 4 ,4% A i 0 . Calvert, N. Lockhart, J. S. st.l.V a C A lcra s HerHeron,-Sit' R. Palmer, C. F. ft i ''' litkme,Joseplt Robertson, A. .Martin,"' . ... . _. , - f .- onsequence of the extension e so ul " in c wing of the new Palace building for his 3fairso.l froo l i 1 g A e" Park ' the ental4P of the common, newer .01111torn,s Pimlico into ' St. James's Park. has been obliged to be foul or" andf r • o which purpose the common sewer in r inlii,,' jo bee: posite the White Horseublic house into the Par"' the Fs"' obliged lattly to be opened, so that the entrance i n to _ 4 , by Pinhcb-g t is a e now nearly impassable, 0 ° II as 4 qg a!it horses, but for foot p assengers. of th .n sain,