The Sun. — London, England, 1826-03-14 00:00:00

~~~~ ~ ; ~_.~r 311 y the Government having lees patronage to give, or her erbi um -act , less emolument to deriva--(Great cheers.)—The clay more of Scotland glittered in his eyes, but he did not fear its stroke though it had been drawn from the scabbard by thi in cantationof the greatest magician of the age. He next came to the particular circumstances under which he was now called • upon to look at the finances of theturrent year. He had stated to the House the extent to which taxation had already been re duced ; he had stated the benefits which the country would be 'sure to derive froin the diminution, and he had stated that out of that diininution it would derive the means of carrying farther its ability to consume those articles which contributed to the ge neral comfort and happiness. It was for him to state to the House at what rate he calculated, first, the charge of the expenditure of the present year; and, secondly, the amount of its income.- 41e would take tite liberty of assuming the amount of expendi lure to be that which the Government had estimated, and a tonsidereble portion of which ball already received the sanction of the Ilouse. The first item was for the interest and manage. ment of the Funded Debt, 27,117,1861. The interest upon which they had beard so much about of late, the Deficiency Bills, 50,0001. The expences of the Civil List chargeable upon the -Consolidated Fund, 2,065,0001. s the Half-pay and Pensions, 2,800,0001. ; and ,the Sinking Fund, 6,685,283.. The total of t hese expences amounted to 37,617,4211. The Annual Sup• plies, a part of which had been voted, were as follow : Army - £/447,808 Navy . 6,135,000 Ordnance - ' 1,754,000 Different items of the Miscellaneous Services 2,225,000 Interest on Exchequer Bills - 850,000 . 'The total Expenditure of the year would therefore amount to .56,328,4211. The Revenue as lie calculited it would produce • the following sums::—First, there was a small item, being a surplus of .the income of 1825, beyond the amount of the -.Sinking Fund, as axed by law. It was not large, but it • must be taken into consideration. Its amount was 167,0001. The Customs and Excise he was under the necessity of taking together, because during last year certain duties usually be longing to the Excise had been carried to the former. The combined amount he would, therefore, take at 37,446,000/. The Stamps at 7,400,0001. The Taxes at 4,800,0001. The Post Office at 1,550,0001. ; and the Miscellaneous at 1,390,000/. • the total amount being 52,723,0001. To this must be added the payment from the Bank on account of half•pay and pensions, 4,220,0001., which increased the amount to 67,043,0001. lf, therefore, the expenditure of the country . be deducted from the amount which he calculated as its receipts for the year, there would be left a surplus of 714,679/. with which Parliament would have to deal as it might think fit. It was - however, proper that he should state to the House the ground upon which he had made this estimate, because it might be -considered by many Gentlemen that he hail calculated upon a higher produce of revenue than circumstances warranted; but he hoped that the grounds upon which lie thought that such a revenue would be realised during the current year, would ap pear as.satisfactory to the House as they did to him. lie must take as the basis of his estimate, the receipts of the year past. —Theactual receipts of the Customs and Excise in the year 1825, were 37,54000/. But .it so happened that the net re ceipts of those branches, and particularly of the Excise, had -been diminished by accidental circumstances. He sneant the amount of duties which had been repaid upon the article of wine to the holders of stock in hand. This consumed no less a sum than 1,050,000/., a very important deduction from the revenue of the year, but arising as 'it did 'from that casual cause, he was entitled to assume as the ground.work of his estimate for this year—supposing of the same kind to inter. vene in the mean time—that the amount so abstracted would be available for the service of the year 1820. He then calcu lated that there would be a small addition to the revenue from getting rid of certain small bounties, ,under the measure intro duced by his Right Honourable Friend, and this would amount to 60,0001. There was then another circumstance which last year affected the receipts of the Customs. The House were aware that lastyear there was carried into effect one of the most extensive alterations that ever took place in any, of the great revenue departments. By the active excl..; tions of his Honourable Frienti, the Secretary of the Trea sury, an immense number of laws relating to the Customs were reduced into Six Acts of Parliament. Amongst the multiplicity of these labours it was not surprising that an error Of a venial nature should have crept in; but it so happened that upon the article of tobacco, which was intended to be cargeable with the 4s. duty, Is. had lapsed by a very ex. cusable mistake, in the wotding of the Act. The consequence of this was, that during one half the year, between Joy and Ja. .nuarY,' the 4s. duty was reduced to 3s. In effect it coat the Revenue 450,0001. In this part of his statement, therefore, he Was enabled to take credit for these sums which would not be wanted next year. The three added together amounted to 1,60,0001.; and if that were added to what he had estimated as thu produce of the year, 37,640,0001., the total amount would be 30,090.0001. liut he was ready to admit that such an account wasqlot likely to be realised under the circumstances of the .coterttry.. It therefore became hint to see what part of the sum .of $2:0911,0001. ought to be calculated upon an available re. venue, He must first allow for the further loss of taxation, in , 130alierente of the reductions effected last year, theattia o 330,0001. lie took it at that amount, because, us the reductions of last year took place immediately, anti were • in amid* during three quarters, it might be assumed that the loss of the remaining quarter in the future year would be about what he had calculated. He had stated that the Yeductiotia cffecteti last year amounted to 3,140,0001„ and when he n ow talked of the quarter being only 350,0001., it was necessary that he should explain himself to the House, as be: calottinted when the reduction was proposed, it had led to an 'increased consumption, which had so brought up the Revernie that the loss did not exceed upon the whole .100,0001: lie therefore estimated the quarter at 350,0001., as being tiete.fourth of the total amount of real pure lose. But be was very sensible that all the confusion wh ich had recently embarraSsed the 'transactions of the country, which had bound up its foreign • commerce and suspended Its internal activity, must create some lOSSi and lie had endeavoured to calculate what that loss would be. He knew this was a matter of diffi culty, and probably every one who attempted to make the esti• mate from the same materials would come to a different con. .elusion. But he had supposed that it might amount, including losses upon the 'educed taxes, to 1,300,0001. lie knew it was difficult to conic to any satisfactory conclusion upon such a subject, hut he thought he had not been unreasonable in cal culating the deficiency at that amount. He expected that the House would concur with him in this view, and particularly when he stated that the Excise Revenue for the first month of the year, notwithstanding the great pressure of the times, and although the officers had been directed not to press too severely for the payments.—(Hear, hear I)—Yet it appeared that the Kingdom receipt of the Excise, in all the branches of the United Kingdom exhibited a loss upon articles in which an alteration of Ilse duties had taken place of not more than 2,31191. In the TM/14th of January, 1825, the produce of the Excise was 2,269,6691. In the corresponding month of 1820, the receipts were 2 257,2801., shewmg a decrease as he had stated of only 2,3891. Upon these items, upon which the duties had been re4: . uced, viz. cider, glass, licences, sweets, and vinegar, a lose bad been incurred of 102,0001. The produce upon these articles for the same *lead was for 1825, 20'2,0001.; for 1826, 190,9371., showing a diminution of about 102,0001. But this arose almost entirely from the alterations which had taken place, and not from a diminished consumption of the articles, or any thing which, ought to shake the confidence of the House in the future pro. .duce of this branch of Revenue. It should be attributed almost entirely to the change which had token place with regard to rlicences in Ireland. An Act was passed, by which a diffiirence WAS made in respect to towns sending Members to Parliament; he was never able to fathom the meaning of this—(a but be supposed there was some reason for it. The recent law had assimilated the regulation of licences to the practice in &gland, by which the duties were not payable till the sear . after the licences were granted. It was quite clear, therefore, that if they took the articles which proved the capacity of the people to consume, the diminution had not exceeded 4,0001. He thought then lie had made no unreasonable de mand upon the House, when he called upon them to state the loss likely to fall upon the revenue at 1,300,0001. He would next chew he expected that deficiency to arise. The actual produce of the Stamps in 1825 was 7,477.9431., for the present year he should take them at 7,400,0001. ; the receipts of the Post Office in 1825 were 1 4 595,0001., he should new take them at 1,559,9091., the Assessed Taxes last year produced 4,990,0001., and as title year they would undergo the loss of three.fourths of the last reduction which did not come into operation until the 10th of October, 1826, he would .assume it to be 190,000/., making the estimated amount 4,000,0001. The Miscellaneous Items would be longer than usual, and the encrease would arise partly from these cir cumstences. There was a sum of 100;0001. due to this L 74 u - nt-rY in 1025, under a Treaty with Holland, which sum wa s MA actually received within the year; but which he believed was now in the Exchequer and would form part of 'the maim.* of the year 1820. There was another sum which he thought would not have fallen again into his hands, from which he was sSr&id many people would suppose the never.. ' 4Htlin g 14°21 ". Ho was not aware of the fact when the Bill was asked;p but he found that by the course they had taken the drawings would be protracted through 'this year. He took any blame that might arise from this ignorance‘to himself. It was done--it was his fault, and it could not now be helped.— From this source the sum of 180,0001. would accrue to the Revenue this year. He had always been of opinion, that this system ought to be put an end to, and that it was unworthy of a good Government to draw its resources from encouraging the vices of the people.—(Cheers.)—There was another item which would bring in a considerable sum of money—hemeant the re turn' of the old giver coin of Ireland. Last year they had sent 500,0001. in new coinage, and the coin which would come back, calculated to be worth about 400,0001., would be available for the services of the year. There was another sum arising out of an arrangement between the Ad miralty and the East India Company, by which the latter had agreed to pay 60,0001. in consideration of the Navy having been augmented in order to aid them with forces . for the defence of their possessions. All these stuns accounted for the Increase under the particular head of Miscellaneous items. The result then was, that he thought he might assume the receipt of the year would leave a surplus, with which they would have to deal as they might see fit, of 714,000/. Now, this sum, perhaps, was not very large but he thought it was worth somethingand might effect considerable good ; but their choice in its applica tion he feared was limited. When the Is. of' the duty on tobacco lapsed, the Government were asked what they meant to do, when in jantiary, the old law would revive. What they said was, that they should not decide until the plea , sure of Parliament was known upon the subject, and under the circumstances, he thought it Incumbent upon them to leave the duty as it now stood. He did not at all mean to say, that they might not go further in the reduction of his duty with great advantage to the country, but it was not expedient at present to relinivish„any productive source of revenue. Ile understood that this partial diminution of duty had already put some check upon the smuggling of Tobacco in Ireland. He estimated the logs which would arise from this at 600,0001. He should have been glad to have carried the reduction further,and to have extended` it to other heads, but the circumstances of the times would not allow it.' ,He did not wish to set up for a pro. phet, nor to hold out foolish hopes, the fulfilment of which it would be extravagant to expect. But when it was seen that he had reduced eight millions of taxes in three years, it might be supposed that lie should not be slow in snaking a more ex tensive application of the same principles when he found himself able, as he had the greatest confidence he should hereafter be. He had now shown that they were not only in a state to meet the wants of the country, but also to carry some what ftirther die system of reduction upon which they had been regularly acting. But there was still another subject to which it was his duty to call the attention of the House. But Gentlemen were aware that much had been said of the state In . which the Bank of England was placed, and although he was always ready to defend the con duct of the Bank, in whatever advance they had made, yet he had always thought it a desirable thing to reduce the advance and to diminish the amount of, the Unfunded Debt. On the Stir of January of the present year there wore six millions of Exchequer Bills in the hands of the Bank—lie meant of those upon which they had advanced money to Government. There were also others which they had purchased, and which they were at liberty, like any other purchaser, to sell in the market when ever they thought fit. It was already known to the Committee that in the month of February they had consented to pus. chase the amount of two millions of those which were outstanding, with the intention of relieving the pressure upon the Market and of aftbrding, at the same time, a general relief to the country by an extension of the Cur rency.—lt was quite clear at that time that it would not be prudent for them to purchase unless assured of repayment within some limited and rather short period. An understand. ing had accordingly been allowed to prevail that the repayment should not be postponed much beyond the month of June. It was also perfectly well known that the Bank had agreed to' make advances upon, goods to a certain amount, and it was felt to be desirable that they should on that account be relieved some part of their advances to Government. What was pro. posed therefore was to repay to the Bank six millions. The whole amount of Exchequer Bills held by the Bank was eleven millions. On the let of January they held . .C 6,000,000 Taken up in February 2,000,000 Received tut Security for Advance to Pay off Diseen. tient Four per Cent. Holders , . . 3,000,000 .£11,000,000 Those of the latter class were charged upon the Sinking Fund, and some progress had been already made in paying them off, and indeed they would ull be paid off bY the operation of that Fund in the course of the present year. There remained then eight millions of the other descriion of adVances, and of these it was proposed to p a y oll' s ix millions,_ in order fully to redeem the pledge given by Government, when it took the recent un usual steps for the convenience of the public. He thought it advisable to fund, besides this amount, 2,000,000 more of these now outstanding in theliands of the public, and should there. fore, in the course of the present Session, have to propose a funding in the whole of eight or nine millions. He was far from thinking that the reduction in the amount of outstanding Exchequer Bills ought not to go further; but it wastertainly true that they might go too rapidly. When the Sinking Fund was released from the ineumbrance to which he had alluded, he confessed he saw no reason why it should not be made ap plicuble to the redemption of the Unfunded Debt. When this fund was fixed at five millions, it was enacted that it should •go on accumulating at comp oun d i nterest . .Thi s principle 'might be preserved as effectually when it was employed in the redemption of the Unfunded as of the Funded Debt, taking care of course that the interest of the Exchequer Bills purchased by the Sinking Fund should be perpetually added to the Fund. He did not apprehend any inconve nience from the reduction .of the amount applicable to the ' purchase of stock, which would be occasioned by this ar rangement. Ile should therefore have to propose during the present Session, a measure to render the Sinking Fund up. plicable to the redemption of the Unfunded Debt. Thus he had endeavoured to state how the Finances of the country stool : how, according to the prospective view he took of the subject, they were likely to stand for the next year, and how, in the opinion of Government they ought now to proceed. He would venture to say, that he contemplated a prosperous future. He was not ashamed of that word prosperous. A nation might well be termed prosperous when possessieg all the elements of greatness within itself, it sees its Government studious of every practicable improvement. He would confidently expect the future prosperity of the country when he saw its foreign policy conducted upon principles which must extend and strengthen its influence amongst the nations of the world, by support. ing its character of good faith ; when he saw the Parlia ment intern, Session after Session upon rendering the Laws better understood by those for whose advantage they ' were framed; when he saw the ,Financial system reduced to simplicity and folloWing the precepts of a wise and liberal eco nomy ; when he saw all this sanctioned and enforced by Par liament; and when he saw the light of' knowledge generally diffused amongst the peopl e , di s p e lling the mists of prejudice and subduing all the tendencies to disorder,—when lie saw all these thinks, he was right in saying that the country was in a state which justified the most confident anticipations of pro. gressive welfare and greatness. It was true that she might be assailed, as she had been, by occasional tempests, that she might have to endure " the slings and arrows of outrageous for tune," yet she would always possess the courage to " take up arms against a sea of troubles"—(Cheers)—and would always, he trusted, whew that she could " by opposing end them."— (Cheers.)—He entertained an unabated confidence that they should advance, notwithstanding any temporary obstruction by systematic steps to that end of all good government, the welfare and happiness of the people.---(The Right Hon. Gentleman having moved the usual Annual Duties on Pensions, Offices, and Personal Estates, in Great Britain, Wales, and Berwick upon-Tweed, then sat down amidst loud and repeated cheers from ell parts of the house.) Mr. MAHER. II V then rose to address the House, but from the noise caused by a great number of Members leaving the House at the same time, he was for a considerable time on his legs before one syllable of what he said was audible in the gallery. The first observation which we could collect was that of his charging the Chancellor of the Exchequer with a fallacy, in going so far back as the year 1816. in his compari son of the amount of' debt with what it was at present. He ' h ini l s a h t e e d r . yea n rs e. amount the tct proceededof ilr t t i o e b c t o n i t n e c n r t e i stehda at n c s o t n e al pared d w i was it paying with did but this made little alteration in our case. It not object to the principle of the funding of Exchequer ; one hand, and borrowing with the other. A s to the estimate be most glad to go with the of revenue for this year, he it d what made on Elf& ciently certain data. The Right Hon. Gentleman tad not been Right lion. Gentleman in etahokuinldg had taken he had calculated, but he was afraid the calculation only one month of last year with one of the p ation made fromresent. But he (Mr. Maberly) should like to have the calcination the Ist of January, this year, to the present time, and compare d with the same period of the last year. That would h a ve been an the one he much. better ground on which to have gone, t his principle had chosen. Doubtint , therefore, the accuracy of of calculation, he could not place much reliance on his told esti mated surplus. Last year the Right Hon. Gentleman had them that they were to have a surplus of 864,0001., and it turned out not to be a fifth of that sum • and this year they were told they were to have a su r pl us o f 714,0001. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the calculation to which the Hon. Member alluded was made,. last year before the reduction of taxes took place, and of Course the surplus was less by die amount of the taxes reduced. Mr. MABERLY.—That of course would alter his argu. meet as to that point. Still, however, he must repeat his re. gret, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had hot made his calcula tion on the produce of the revenue up to the present period ; for if it should turn out that there was a great falling off in the revenue in the month of February, the Honourable Member could hardly be said to have made a fair calculation. As to the reduction of the umfunded debt, he did not object to it ; but he did contend, that a morq,favourable moment might have been selected, when it could have been done withmore ad. vantage 'to the public. The Right Honourable Gentleman had expressed an intention of making the Sinking Fund ap plicable to the reduction of the unfunded as well as the funded debt, but he (Mr: Alaberly) thought, that before he made any such alteration, h would be much better to apply the Sinking Fund for the purpose of getting rid of the dead weight of 2,800,0001., now paid on account of the half-pay and pensions. Mr. HUME contended that the statement of the Right Hon. Gentlenian, which alleged the increase of our national re sources, was not correct. He had selected :wo periods between which he instituted a comparison for the purpose of serving his argument. The years he chose were 1810, a p er iod o f excess i ve depression, and 1825, a period of elevation in the contrary ex treme, for which we were now paying. The proper way would have been to take a larger period on which to found his infer ences. He (Mr. Hume) would show that there was a depression in all the articles of consunytion, particularly in malt, clueing the last ten years. Of this he would undertake to satisfy the House as soon as the Returns were furnished, which were ne cessary to complete the_ series of Returns for which he had moved. He hoped that the Hon. Member for Abingdon would move fbr,Returns of a Cash Account. A Cash Account on the present Occasion was surely as necessary as it would be for a mercantile Gentleman in balancing his books. The Right • Hon. Gentleman bad stated the increase on the article of Beer to be sixteen and a half per cent., and that on Malt to be 50 per cent. Now it was well known that people did not drink more than half the quantity of malt liquor at the present time which the public were in the habit of consuming between the years 1788 and 1792. The consequent decrease on malt no less than 41 per cent. The article of sugar had also suffered a de crease, the precise amount of which he was not prepared to • state • and though the increase on tea was said to h a ve r e ac h e d • 30 0;40 per cent., he would undertake to slew that tea had continued stationary for the last '2O years. If the statements obtained credit, which alleged the ability of the people to sus tain the enonnous burthens imposed on them, it was what the country would not expect. The people hoped for relief from taxation, and he had heard no good reason advanced to phew why a military establishment should be kept up in a time of peace, which was greater than at any period of the war. He protested against the statement now laid before the House, feeling that the country with regard to charge was in a worse condition than on the sth of January 1819. It was now more loaded than ,1817-18, or—l 9, in which last year the advantages arising from the Sinking Fund was given up. Instead of Exchequer Bills, he would wish the Sinking Fund to be made available to the public debt. lie was bound to acknowledge that great credit was due to the Right Ho nourable Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the President of'dic Beard of Trade, for the services which they had rendered to trade, by retrieving the restrictions under which it laboured ; but the financial evittem now pursued was, in fact, a pure loss.t.o the country. • ,The reflections, which had been cast upon Scotland, he did not think it necessary to notice; they only showed a total Jack of argument. It was natur a l enough for many persons to like the continuance of taxes. The enormous expence attendant on the collection of the revenue in Ireland induced hitn, for three successive years, to divide the House on the question' Of investigating' the subject ; and when at length Commiasiongs, were, pent Aver for the purpose, the result of their inquiries showed the necessity of the measure which lie had urged. • In the Revenue Department, he thought that the higher classes of officers were greatly overpaid, while in lower classes were but inadequately remunerated. Notwith standing the good prospects held out by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he could not 'expeet "that-'the country would be content to find that expensive establishments ; were increased at the same time that the debt" was rallied: As to a reduction it could not be hoped for, until the landed interests came forward, as they did before, to require it ; then, and not till then, he was sure it would be granted. - For three.years, reductions were to have gone on progressively, and the surplus of the Sinking Fund was to have reduced' tire` G10E160,0004 'this year s but no such thing had takon race. ' • Sir J. NEWPOR I „ considered tire country much indebted to the Chancellor of the Exchecitter and the President of . the Board of Trade. Much ivod had been done by the Commis sioners sent to investigate the state of the Revenue in Ire land. A moral improvement bpi taken place, in that coup, try by the reduCtion of tintititiPeti articlea, , which hid the effect of putting down the preserritas.of smuggling. He would strongly recommend a further reduction of one shilling in the pound in tine duty an tobacco. "The 'Chancellor of the Exchequer had his hearty thanks for bringing the Revenue department of Ireland to this'country, and thereby making every man pay just what he ought. The Revenue Commis sioners were entitled to much praise tor whit they had already done, but one report of an important nature yet remained to be furnished. It was a well-known fact, that Stib-Commissioners in Ireland were in the habit of trying revenue causes, and that the Sub-Commissioner who was Judge in one Court where his Fellow-Commissioner was plaintiff; became plaintiff in another where the latter presided as Judge. Thus were the Sub-Corn. missioners mutually Judges of each other's 'causes—an abuse which called loudly for reform. lie regretted that. therd was yet no report on the subject of the Irish Post (Vice, because the Commissioners had not yet finished their inquiries into the affairs of the English and Scotch Post Offices. But the abuses which existed in the Irish Establishment, he thought, ought to be made the subject of a separate COMmittlion, and if manifest abuses were discovered, he hoped that the English and Irish Post.office departments would be consolidated as other depart. merits had been. He concluded whir repeating, that he gave to the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite, his high, hearty, and un reserved praise. Mr. BARING could not reconcile it to himself, to let so im por.ant a subject Pass without offering some observations upon it. Every financial statement, he was aware, must be founded on an estimate; but he must be a hold man indeed who could un dertake to say what would result from the revenue of the coun. try. When bubble fortunes had existed, there must necessarily be a bubble revenue. And as a revenue arises from the con. sumption of articles, many of which are part of the luxuries of life ; when people can no longer afford to indulge in them, the decrease of consumption must be followed by a corresponding decrease in the revenue.' To, the Chancellor of th e E xc h equer an estimate was undoubtedly necessary, and under such extra ordinary circumstances, he did not think that a Minister was answerable for results. He doubted whether the stated amount of surplus was sufficient to justify the Chancellor of the Ex chequer in his expectations and even on his own showing, unless he (Mr. Baring) mistook him, the re was no rea l sur plus at all. Thep were two iterns--one of 400,000/. from the return of Irish coin, anti another of 100,000/. from the Lottery. Both were casual receipts, and not likely to continu e . In America there was a sinking fund ; France there w as one five or six times the amount of ours ; in Prus s i a an d i n all the continental countries, with the exception of Spain, there w ere sinking funds adequate to meet contingencies. In th e present case he would say that two millions and a half was the extent of our Sinking Fund. The Chancellor of the Exch equer had said, look to the 1,300,0001. reduction in the charge. But when it was recollected that a saving of 1,600,0001 . had been gained by the reduction of the Five per Cents. to Four, t would ap. Pear that so far from a diminution there was really an increase. He regretted that no arrangement had been made with the Bank as to the dead weight of eight millions, to whi c h fi ve more would be added in a few years, so that It would amount to no lesi a sum than thirteen millions. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted that the 880,0001. to be derived from Irish Coin end the Lottery, were necessarily casual receipts. He had stated that a retitle. don of 13,0001. would t a ke place in the two main branches of the revenue. He calculated on improvement in the next year from the manifest improvement in the present. As to the re. duction of the debt, the reduction of the 8 per Cents. was not included in that account, but the reduction of the 4 per Cents. was, On the question of arrangement with the Bank; he justi. fled the course which Government took, though he was not in. sensible to the objections which had been raised against it. Out of nine millions funded, it was intended to pay off six millions to the Bank, and Exchequer Bills in the hands of the public, with the remaining three millions. Mr. CALCRAFT made a few observations, and concluded with congratulating the country on the statement of the Chan. cellor of the Exchequer. ME3IBL:11, whose name we could not learn, thought that the proposed arrangement cf consolidation would be highly be. nefictal to Scotland; but at the same time he strongly objected to the blame which had beet cast upon the country by the Chan. cellor of the Exchequer. The Cii4NCELLOR cf the EXCHEQUER thought b e had rather eulogised Scotland, and only wondered that people could he found there who tiered in seotitnent from his trial. , lant Friend. He hoped however, that the whole nation would now concur in the opinions which the Gallant and lion. Geu. tleman had expiessed. Sir C. FORBES said that the pains taken to answer anony mous publicttions chewed that the galled jade winced. He hived they would not meddle with the Banking System of Scotland, which was so vittlly connected with the best interests of the country. The Scotch Members, he trusted, would be in their pl aces an d do heir duty. They ought to take ex ample from the Members of the Sister country,l who were always attentiv e t o what ,eatcereed the welfare of ' lreland. If a single Member would 'stand by him, lie pledged himself to resist the designed alteration. Mr. ELLICE augured ill from the circumstances of Scotch Bankers coming down to the House to request time to meet their engagements. The English Bankers had preferred no such petitions. If the measure were a useful one, so far as )-egardedEngland, he could not conceive why it should not ba equally beneficial to Scotland. He wished to ask the Right Hon. • Gentleman opposite, whether it was intended to reduce the duties on certain dye-stuffs, as had already been promised. Mr. II USK ISSON said, that the arrangement contemplated by his Bight Hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was to afford the silk trade the advantage of such a drawback as was allowed in the woollen trade. He was at a loss to know where there was any thing but a nominal duty upon dye stuffs since last year. 'rile Honourable Member for Aberdeen had endeavoured to confuse the luminous statement of his Right Honourable Friend by a certain management of figures ; in deed it was possible to prove almost any thing, but he would undertake to shew the fallacy of the reasoning which had been put forward. The Honourable Member for Aberdeen was disposed to be any thing but encouraging when be told the House, and, of coutse, wished it to be communicated to the country, that we, now paid more for the charges of Govern ment than we did in 1816. Was it possible he could bold such language when it was clear to every man that, in proportion as you took off the burdens and restrictions on trade and com merce, and increased the means of every man in society, it must be clear you lightened him of his load ; and even, though it was equal, you enabled him the better to bear it, more espe cially when it was recollected that his Right Honourable Friend had lowered the duties on Wine one half, and taken off half the Assessed Taxes. Yet still the Hon. Member for Aberdeen got up and assured the House they were paying more now than in the former period alluded to. Certainly this was neither fairly stating the fact, as between Government and the public, nor likely to create in the minds of his Majesty's sub jects a disposition to support.the financial and commercial mea sures of the present improved period with cordiality or confi dence; and here before he sat down he must appeal to many Members who had made representations on the subject of trade, commerce, and manufactures, and more particularly to the Hon. Member for Wareham, and the Hon. Baronet, Member for the Queen's County, whether his Majesty's Ministers had not on all occasions lent a most willing car, and given the most patient attention to every suggestion which had been made to them, as to the repeal or renewal of every restriction, which they or their constituents believed pressed upon the industry of those whose interests they represented—(Cries of Hear, hear !) Mr. MA BERLY in explanation observed, that we had now in fact no Sinking Fund. An Hon. M EmnE a, whose name was not known to us, hoped that neither the Chancellor of the Excheqeer nor his Majesty's Ministers would attempt to interfere with the currency of Scotland, which had enabled them'to continue a prosperous course for nearly a century. Mr. T. WILSON felt gratified in hearing this evening the candid, honest, and explicit statement of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He hoped it would go forth cor rectly to the public, and have the effect of cheering the hopes, and exciting the confidence of society at large. This would not fail to produce the best effect out of doors.. As he had been amongst the first to. express his dissent from a former resolu tion of his Majesty's Ministers, lie felt it equally incumbent on him on the present occasion, to come forward and give full credit for their exertions to those to whom credit was due. Sir CHARLES FORBES deprecated any interference with the Bank of Scotland, or the suite of the Currency in that • country. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (in answer to Mr. HOME) observed, that the Civil List had been on mature consideration by the Legislature fixed for the life of his present Majesty, and he had a great doubt on his mind if the House could, after such a determination of its extent and appropria tion, make, during the present reign, any other appropriation or settlement of it. Whenever the subject of the Civil List was re viewed and devised it would be competent to the House to do so, that could not happen until the demise of the Sovereign. Mr. HUME considered this appropriation they were now voting to be an alteration of the appropriation of the Civil List as settled by law, and of course it would be equally open to Parliament to investigate and inquire into, abd if necessary alter the distribution of the Civil List. The Resolution was agreed to,- and the Chairman reported the same to the House. Thu Report was ordered to be received .to-morrow. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.—,PUBLIC BUILDINGS. Mr. BERRIES moved that a sum of 80,0001. be granted for the expence of works and repairs upon buildings Mr. HUME said that he did not quite Understand from what source the expence of the alterations now going on at Bucking_ Ingham House was to be made: He did not suppose that any mine had been discovered which was "to furnish die money ; but no estimate was before the House. Mr. HEAVIES said, that the charges were to be defrayed, as the House was aware;from the surplus revenue of the woods and forests. Mr. HUME Wished to know what the probable amount of. the whole expence would be ? Mr. H ERB lES • was not 'prepared immediately to state the amount, but the question had been discussed generally in the last Session. Mr. HUME said, that the surplus of the woods anti forests was part of the public revenue—just as much ay the customs' or excise ; and no part of the public revenue ()tight. to be dbl. posed of without an estimate laid befoie Parliam ent . Wi th reference to the Bill of the last SesSion, lie,certai iy had under. stood that the House was to be called open to vote t h e money required for these alterations from year; to year/ Would there be any objection to the furnishing an estimate of all the fur ther expence which the country was likely to be put to on ac count of Buckingham House and Windsor? „ Sir C. LONG said, that such an estimate could he given If the Hon. Member thought fit to move for it. Certainly, how ever, his Hon. Friend (Mr. Berries) had distinctly stated last year, that the surplus revenue of the woods and forests was to be applied to the payment of these works. Mr. ELLICE thought that the House and , . the country would be much better informed of what was going on, if the surplus revenue of the woods and forests was regularly brought to account, and the money for these works regularly voted. Certainly, in his opinion, estimates ought to be furnished. Mr. HUSKISSON said, that according to the existing Act of Parliament, triennial accounts of expenditure must be ren dered. As he took it, the whole matter had been fo r ex plained in the discussions of last session. The expence of each year was not to go beyond the year's surplus on the revenue of the woods and forests. Mr. ELlithiditinot think that the Right lion. Gentle man perfectly understood his meaning. He wished that this surplus revenue should be brought to account, and the money for the works voted, as for any other service. Ile thought that in this way the subject would be better understood. Mr. ARBUTHNOT said a few words which were almost entirely inaudible in the gallery. He stated, that before Easter he should be able to bring in a Bill with reference to the im provements contemVateu at Charing-cross. Mr. J. MARTIL ailed a question as to the probable ex. pence of the repairs - which were going at the Custom-house ? Mr. "[BURIES said it was difficult to say, precisely, what that expence would be, as a part only was likely to be paid by Government. Proceedings were pending at law against the individual who was papposed to have been in fault in that affair; and in a very ihort time the matter would be brought to trial. Mr. BARING was desirous to know also what was doing at the new Post-office. He thought really that when so many improvements of importance were going on, some specific and responsible department o ug ht to b e name d the direction of them. As the thing stood, no one knew what was doing while buildings were in progress; and when they were completed with some grors error in monstrous deformity, there was no one to take the blame of it. Mr. BERRIES said, that the improvements were con ducted already, under the direction of the Treasury, by the Board of Works. Mr. BUTTERWORTH said a few words, which did not reach the gallery. Sir M. W. RIDLEY said, that the expence of the works at the Cuatom-bouse, and at the new Post-office, was stated to be payable out of the revenues of those peculiar establishments. But what was' this but the public revenue ? Crtainly he thought that estimates ought to be produced. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER nth', that there could be no difficulty about furnishing estimates if they were desired. But the tact was, with respect to the Post-office, that by Act of Parliament the City of London was bound to contribute a certain sum towards the expence of that building ; and the whole sum yet made use of had not exceeded that ,amount paid up by the city—to wit, 80,0001. No vote, how ever, as regarded Parliament, would be called for to continue the work ; because there was a specific direction that the charge should be paid out of the revenues of the establishment. Mr. BARING thought that it would be far more convenient if the Board of Works regularly brought in its estimates every year, and took a vote for the money wanted, in the same way with other services. The Right Hon. the Chancellor of the the Post-office had not ex cee d e d 80,0001.; he (Mr. Exchequer must certainly be mistaken w h en h e said that the e ß x arr e in n g er was at induced to believe that they had gone further than three times that amount. The CHANCELLOR of the:EXCHEQUER said, that he did not include what had been paid for the purchase of the grou Mr. HUME asked whether the repairs at York house were among those which were to be paid for out of the surplus re. venue of the woods and forests ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that Government had nothing to do with them. They were the pria vate concern of his Royal Highness the Duke of York. Mr. HUME wished, next Session, by all means to have re gular estimates; and that all the public buildings should be paid for by votes, direct, out of the public money. Mr. TREMAYNE was of opinion that estimates previous. to expenditure were likely to be more useful than accounts af terwards. As regarded many of the new works projected, this was almost indispensable. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that with respect to the new streets, in many places buildings were raised by private persons, who took the ground at their own risk. Mr. TREMAYNE had alluded chiefly to the palaces. The vote was then put and agreed to. SCOTCH COLLEGES. Mr. BERRIES moved a grant of 10,0001. for works going on at the College of Edinburgh. Mr. HUME said, that he could desire that all the money voted in this way for Scotland should not be given to one col lege. He thought that an inquiry would be of service, to as certain the condition of the other Scotch colleges, and to declare how far they were competent to the objects for which they were intended. The Act of Union certainly required that five colleges in Scotland should be kept up ; but that Act was vio lated every year, and very properly so, when its violation was convenient for the public service. Now it was well known that the colleges of St. Andrew's and Aberdeen had not the means of supporting themselves, and that to go on existing they were compelled to have recourse to expedients which would, render it much more advisable that they should not exist at all. Upon the subject generally, he would only say farther, that the Professors of the colleges in Scotland were very anxious for inquiry, and for such a change as would render those esta blishments more respectable, and more widest to the public. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the case of Abeedeen was under consideration, and thatthe treasury was expecting farther information upon the subject. Mr. HU E (as we understood him) was desirous that a" commission should be appointed. Sir M. W. lUDLEY said, that whatever offence the Right Hon. Chancellor of the Exchequer's plans might have given ter Scotland, here was obviously an opportunity for him to make, his peace. For himself, however, he confessed that he was not at all desirous to grant more money to the Scotch Colleges, and thought that the College of,Edinburgh had already been allowed ton much. The next item was 16,7501. for the expences of Port Patrick Harbour • 9.9801. for expences of Donaghadee Harbour; 43,0001. for the expences of the Royal Harbour of Georgs,the Fourth at Kingstown (formerly Dunleary). • BRITISH MUSEUM. Mr. BUTTERWORTH made some. observat ion on the height of the new buildings which was not distinctly beard its atOthnemßorivtiinshg Museum,for 25,0001. to defray the expence of buildings the gallery. b l i r i e ild a i l n so gs too di k d that it was not determined where the picture gallery shoidd: ho S us ir es C in W the N n G eig ga h i b d ou th rh at oo d t i l e . be fixed. Sir G eorg umont had le ft his whole casette* to the public, but had not made the situation of the building in which it was to be deposited any condition. els ceived in their present expectations that the whole of the c Mr. HOBHOUSE hoped that the public would not be de" , lections of every sort and kind were now to be stationed Wo n ' ing to the very best principles. It was expected, for instanc e, that all the treasures would not be deposited m one Pla ce ' where a single accident by fire might sweep them awaY c!' - • occasion e n waTethe. tirely. He hoped that the pictures at least would be brougot to the west end of the town, and not be placed with th e otner collections in a corner of the metropolis, where they would be, to all practical purposes, scarcely' approachable. Sir C. LONG said, that he had no objection to any arrange' meat which might be generally approved. Mr. ARBUTHNOT said a few words. Mr. HUME wi s h e d t o know how much money it wou ld take to complete the buildin g s ? It Mr. 'BERRIES made some answer, which we were not a b le ti to hear in the gallery. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER took o% to defend the grant, and applaud the application of it . said that thesouth front was the most beautiful design of tn_ a , dery architectures—Upon a question from some other quart s the House, the Right Hon. Gentleman said that he did not, allude to the squat dumpy pile which now formed the ol d front, but the Runt which was to reinstate it, conformably te te ' the new wings which were building behind, After some further observations the resolution was es" 4 - - _, eti t h e ' The next item w as 15,0001. for the n ew b u ildityar was 70,0001. WINDSOR for CAS'. repars n wor ks It Wl° Offices of Privy Council, and the Privy Co unc il for Tra°' The next vote as Castle. ar he li Mr. HUME again urged the necess i t y o f furnishing p rt a EW meat with proper estimates of th e c h arges incurred, an money wanted to complete the works. 'Ws! The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER that, the expence had exceeded the estimate considera bly —But, —But ' indeed, it was impossible that any corree could have been formed. The building was d o & I nd removing or touching any part of the wall or ce il ing, th ey it to be in a much worse s tat e of d eca y than had been s n ood n:74 - and the wonder was how they had continued au long ; tsar with objection to the accounts being produced, tose ner estimates of the expense of completing the works. ht, in the Lord J. RUSSLLI. thought that the floll se first instance, according to the suggestion of his lion. xtesusss pros aut him. to have had clear tautad satisfiictory estima. s _ exceeding the duced. Their predictions as e expence amount first stipulated, had been too faithfully fulfilled: Sir C. LONG felt quite certain that the expcnces would not exceed 300,0001., which was the sum first named 11 his Right Hon. Friend. bids Mr. GEORGE LAMB did-not object to the money w the had been thus expended ; and if more were wanted for Le t completion of that royal residence, he would cheerfully vote to it should be granted. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER continuaa . l. A purchase had been made of private property to the amount o, 16,000/. to carry on the works. It would be for the pleasure 01 Parliament to say, whether they would continue the improv e ; meets which were now prosecuting at Windsor Castle. Cre st advantage would arise to the undertaking by the removal s several old buildings, which obstructed the works; bu t Would depend upon Parliament to grant the necessary funds' Mr. lIUME considered that for all the use that would be made of Windsor Castle, it might. have remained as befall; The country would be drained by those grants. We s l i p told that the present works were carried on by the help oil er celebrated " Godssend," but we ought to wait for Ow. ° such windfal before we consented to such large sums being • squandered. The country had already been called on to eon; tribute 2,000,0001. for the erection of public buildings ; with this enormous sum the Government ought to be co o pten: i The buildings at Windsor had already cost a prodigios 8 " and he entreated the Right Hen. Gentleman (the Chancellorce, the Exche9uer ) to consider his means for meeting the W ell of the coming year.—'fhe vote war then carried. A vote of 3,5261. was then proposed for carrllog 00 e c ss ile improvements near Westmin ster H a ll ; an d a fter a few " from Mr. H u ME, it was carried. eMen t A vote of 11,175/. was next proposed for the inc,„_ th to ef the Holyhead roads, and th ' f 11 '"" - ose leading rot Dublin. Mr. HUME objected to the vote. ‘e bar- Colonel TRENCH bore testimony to the utility of t h e boil. of flowth and to the severa l r oadsected wiw head and Dublin, which were ow in progress. The. Sir HENRY PARNELL also api dOf the slan p • harbour at liowth had been of " 'rovethe infinite service toworks. interest of this country and of Ireland. It was s nt n e 't. and worthy of the genius of Watt , who e ' I.' origins „ mop . After a few observations from Mr. Ilutterwar Colonel Johnson, and Mr. Hume, the grant was '01 "Y" . t The sum of 50001. was proposed for the impstge -Mee s od, Menai Straits, and after a few words from 111 r, ram for Mr. Goulb um , i t was carried ; as was el-s 4 the voce bridge over the river Conway. d to for. The sum of 7,500/. was then proposed, and ag re s flings defrayin g t h e expences of printing'the Records o f "I" dons for the present )scar. tai The sum of 102,01,01. was next voted as the probablee of providing stationery, printing and binding, public departments departments of Government for the year 1828. 100 On the vote of 10,1801, for the purpose of forming an to 20 volumes of th e Journals of tlie House of Comnionetnt sD Mr. HUME apid that he could pot eopsent t° $ enormous for the purpose stated. "Mere we Waal oros made qp, and that which was props-tied would be Dug 0 01,re''' pilation from those: h e therefore considered that the a t wh i s k di quired was totally -Wroportioned to the time and /lib° would be occupied lay composing the general indeX , nae on Mr. WYNN, b egge d to assure the Honourable Oe h ", prigs that he laboured und er great mistake in saving th a t t w . a , posed ind ex wou ld be comp i led from ot h ers ; Such a step intended. 'n or der Mr. BERRIES had no objection to grant a return , ! of : the it` to satisfy the Host. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) as to this partieubst vote. he Mr. BUTTERWORTH said, that the charge o r ss,,,, se ho ableisaie were alt the charges connected with the Ll'Z c h tter . bore also testimony to the general correctness with " business of the several offices was conducted. sO elwrioot?,l Mr, T. WILSON thought the stun proposed N