The Sun. — London, England, 1808-06-24 00:00:00

s • . • • you aho tracOntilulional. admittea that this doctrine had ,bran applitd by Mr. Hatsel to the tacking to money'bills measures uncoPileated with the supply, but &mended that the principle inetende el to preclude the. Housd from any 'course . would reduce the other House to the altereative he i• had scat-d. If, therefore, the House should set,no reason, founded upon Parliamentary usage, for de- i clining,the course he had to propose, esby e insert the grant in the Appropriation' Adt, why doe the sup- 1- plies of the year with a measure that would endanger 4 their passing the other House ? The proposition upon which the grant rested, was one on which not only the present House of Commons entertained a differ ence of opinion, but a former House of 'Commis.; • bad rejthed. And • there was as much reason to think - that any other assembly would differ from the resent House of Commons, as that the former ouse of Commons had differed from it. If ever there had been a case in sirhich the grant should be carried into effea by a separate Ad, it was the pre sent. He should ask any Hon. Memher to shew any , case in which two votes founded on die same princi ple, had been carried into effed, one by a separate Bill, the other by insertion in the Appropriatiou Act. if there - was no similar case, then this was a new • .case s and it was competent to the . House to-exercise its discretion upon it. The House would theretbre decide whether, - under all the cheumstances of the case it would prefer the separate Bill or the genersl: Appiopriation Att. He should Wove that a Bill be brought in pursuatiete the Resolution-of 'the Com mittee of Supply. - The e ßesolution was entered as read, and on the question being parr— • Mte - P,eesielt observed,. that the late Chancellor • of the EXcliequer: had consented to have the claims his relative refereed to a Cominittee, though in consequent; 'of the chatter: of Administration no Such Committee had been appointed. It had there- , fore been a disappointment to his father to find that his claims had been resisted by the present Chancel los ofethe Exchequer, :When he was returned to parliament he had waited on the present Chancel lor of the Exchequer - to - ascertain what course he ' was to take, and that Right Hon. Gentlewan had , candidly informed him of his intention to oppose ••. the claims, On his complainihe of the hardships of •► his father's case , . in being denie d-aelair hearipg, be-, fore the only tribunal to which he could oppeel, the Chancellor of the Exchequer had assured hint, that the case simuuld be fairly heard, though he• would not flatter him, that the weight of his opinion would not be exercised againat him in the House.•• He thank ed the Right Hon. Gentleman for hie candour, - lamenting, - that the weight of an opinion, high - as it must be with the House', shoUld be thrown into the scale against .him, audon applying to him foe asiviee respecting thescoerse he was to take, he had' been ' referred to the Speaker. In consequence of 'the press of public business, he had been, induced to put • oft his motiorr so hag es lie had done, - especially' its be was assured that he could not accomplish his oh , . jed till a latestage of the Session., The Right Hon. Gentleinan had given the consent of time Crown for referring time business to a committee, which Cons- • thittee had sanctioned the. claim by its Report. He bad been blamed - for bringing this Bill forward, but in that he had only followed the course pointed out . .. by the House. When so large a majority of that Rouse had decided for the claim, he had every ex- • le&ation the Bill' would pass quietly through the 'Lords. He thought, the arrears at least •woeld not Ism opposed. •As soon as he,nnderstood that an op leettion was intended its anetlier place, he hadaban dolled the Bill by omitting to move the 'third read big. The Right Hon. Gentleman had taken it then op, and sent it to time Lords. resped to the ' Present Bill prbposed to be brought in, he was not concerned in it, and he would leave to the House to a& upon the subjeet as it should think proper. • He otily begged to be spared the, expellee of a measure -*Which could not succeed in the other Hobse, though be should bevels() apprehension upon the subject' it Le was Sure of a lair heating its the Lords.- Here Time SpEnitHaTeminded time Hon. Member that it . • wits not in order to advereto the proceedings of the Otheietionseeiti such a manlier. A short conversations ensued on the point of order; after which , • Mr. PALM E R concluded by deprecating the Bill, and the 'unnecessary and ineffeetual expence that mould' attend it. . . Mr. WII4DIiAM bore testimony to the Candid and manly Manner in which the Honourable Member bad conducted this business throughout. But it wad neither that nor the effect the present proceeding - have •upon,the •interests of his relative that made him rise, but to remind the House of time situation in, whick it was to be-placed? The Right Honourable Gentleman, in the pains he had taken to search for eases, resembled time Wan who built 'a costlY edifice upon another man's ground. He had altesen course time House might take if the mat- les was now intitd, viz: that it may carry its vote jets) effect either by a separate Bill, or a Clause in the Aepropriatien, Act. -That would be correct in • point of form, but would it be so in point of justice.? Ihe House had already decided upon the course it • \vas to take. It lied beets :tensed atter a division in - the Committer, that the vote should be carried into 'effect by a Clause in the Appropriation Act. What bad since happened' to change that course ? A num ber of time Members wile) had voted for that course, hatt left town, - upon' a . supposition that no al teratioh • Would take place. , The House was precludedfrom resorting to any other conies.: The effect of all time llight Honourable Gentleman's libout 'was • to pro duce five cases which' did not apply, being'grapts Upon conditions : several other of his cases were irre levant, being grants for pUblic works, and the only Case that did apply, that of Captain Roach, the House knew nothing tit'. All the Right Honoura • ble Gentleman' stated was, that the House might . adopt either. of two courses, but he contenda,that they were injustice hound itot to take the business out of the coerse that the House had decided upon, and particularly as time case was no longer betbre the same judges. As to what had been said; respecting the impropriety . of not, giving the• Lords an opportunity of exercising their seder ineet open this as upon the other • part of the -ease, he would ask was there any grant on which a differee-Ce of opinion may not prevail ? There. wa s no greet in which the Lords ought so , teatilly to.Cencer.ese grant- of money for public ser vices. • Time serrate of the House:had in no instance Letts more strongly or deliberately expressed.. The . , case rested' tOnn:the truth, the argument, and the arse It had been carried by Do undue Milo pace, and could not be called a party question, un ess‘ the Eight Hon. Gentleman should call that a 'iOarty question on which he had been beaten. He then vroceeded to condemn this system of reconsider ritiort at the end of a Session as a dangerous prac tice. It was not an appeal from Philip Drunk to Sober, not Iron) a thin Hansa to a luil House, -but from a full House to a less full'House, and con. eluded by expressing his dissent to the Motion. Mr. HAWKING BROWNE observed, that this ap peared to him a qUestion wholly - independent of the Merits of Mr. Palmer's ease. Aeis of appropriation . , he thought, ought not to be loaded with any ek 'traneous votes. If the Resolution had passed unani mously after discussion in this Home, there would be reason to suppose that it would be Viewed in the same light by any of the enlightened Assembly. But great difference of opinion had not only prevailed upon the subject of this vote in' that Hotise, but out of dOnrs ;, and it was his - opinion, that the other branch of the Legislature should not be deprived of the opportunity, or unrestrained judgment upon the measure. The Hon. Gentleman then entered into a justification of the grant to the Duke of Athol, and concluded - with expressing a wish that the business shOuld und&ge every proper discussion. Sir THOMAS TURTON agreed, that in the preSent Case the-House was not to decide upen the merits of Mr. Palmer's claim, but upon the condat 'of his Majesty's Ministers. The chaticellor of the Exche quer had referred to the authority of Mr. Hatsel, but that Hon. Gentleman had given the asscut of the Crown. to the proposition, and, the same au thority, he would state, tat 'to give such assent," when he meant to oppose the proposition, was un parliamentary. He should at least . have remained neuter, and not have requested the support 'of his friends. The : cases produced ,by the Right :!Hon. Gentleman did . not apply to this case. He defied any man to slew any case of a debt due from the public to an individual, that was not'included in the Appropriation A'&. He had not been long in Par 'lament, and, though he may not.be thoraughly ac quainted with its usages, he knew enough of Par liamentary courtesy to. say, that it was not proper, in Parliamentary view, when any individual brought forward a Bill, which was read a.first and second lime, to 'take that Out of his bands without any cam - tunic:llion . with him. . Mr: G, JOHNsTosc defended his Right Honoura ble friend (the Chancellor Of the Exchequer) from the iniputatiOnS' of the Honourable Baronet, who, he thought, if confirmed in the opiOions he, expresse:d Df his Right Honourable Friend, ought nut to have addressed hien as he had done.. For himself he should never kel atnity towards any person of whom he could entertain such , opinions. When his Right Honourable Friend bad giVen the cou'ient of the Crown to this proposition, he had distinaly stated, that he gave, that consent only that the question should be investigated, and at the same time dean ed.any pledge upon the subjeEt. All the cases quoted by his Right Honotirable Friend appeared to him to be per';ectly in point. He then contended, that'the measure should be sent up to tl,?e Lords in a shape in which that House should have an oppor tunity.of exercising their uufetterred discretion and judgment. Mr. TIERNEY thought that' so far as the sense of Parliament could go, Mr. Palmer had a claim upon the' public for . 1)4,0001. This was the first time that a Private Bill w;ts brought in against the . will o f the individual who was concerned. Where. were the officers to go tor_ their fees? Mr. Palmer disclaimed the Bill. NVhatwas the reason , of all this ?. the mor tified pride of the Right - Hon. Gentleman. He bad heard that ne, Chancellor of the Exchequer lead ever been in five minorities on a qoestion of finance. The reason was, that other Chancellors of the Exchequer had sense enough to See when there was danger in the wind, and wit enough to avoid by not pressing apinst the marked sense of the House a measure upon which the House bad repeatedly deCided.— The Right Hon. Gentlenir then proceeded to shew that none of.the cases cited by the Right Hon;the Chancellor f the Exchequer would include this eise, The Right Hou. Gentleman had not come deewn lower than I 7 81, in the cases which he had quoted.. It 'remained for him to quOte instances since. There appeared a case of a Dr. - Carmichael `Smith, to whom for' his discovery of fumigatiop by nitrous acid, a sum 0'50601. had been granted by Address to his Majesty. The Lords knew nothing of this grout, which was iriserted in the Appropria tion Act of the following year, to make good a like stun issued pursuant to an Address of the Houk.. The grant to Mr. Martin, an American Loyalist, of 20,0001: ; the . grant to Messrsthalitiers and Cowey, and the' grant to Maynoollt College in the present year, had been inserted in the Appropi;ation Ad, without the Lords having any opportunity of dis- Penssing the tuerits of the grants. The Right lion. Gentleman had challenged arty. Gentletnan to pro duce a case in, which - an arrear and a prospective annuity were granted, that tither was included in the ApPrOpriation Ad ? .If be took the challenge right, he Should state the case- of the grant last Ses sion to the family of Lord Nelson, when the grant of an immediate stun was inserted in the Appropria .tion Act, and the - prospeciive annuity included in a separate Bill. Mr. BANKgS justified the. course be hadrecOm- mended Upon- a. former occasion s , namely, that the arrearsshould be proVided‘for by a clause in the An nuity Bill.- That course he lociked upon as.the best, in order to bring the matter fully under the consi- . &ration of that House, as well as to- Dave to the other. House an opportUnity of exercising their jndg,.. meat upon the whole" of the case. He thought it 'unfair to place the Upper House: in a situation in which it could not exercise ita constitutional judg ,ment upoe it grant of public money; without incur ring.the odium of ohstruding the public SerViee. 'He professed himself as strong a friend of the privileges of this House as any man could be, hut he thought these privileges would be best maintained by abstatn i ing from invasion of the rights of the other House. He lmerited the influence of ptivtite canvass, for by such iutiuence alone could the majorities in the pre sentrase be accounted for. He took a review of the precedents; and contended that, kit , far as they ap plied, they were in favour of the course proposed by - the Chancellor of the Exchequer. On all th‘tse grounds he heartily eouceried in the Motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. . • GEORGH Poti'son - ; denied, that this was 4 . . -qUestion t . ar ntcrj* htiott of . eon t rita bn the con trary, it was a mere iinestitm of fact; Old confirmed over and over 'again by the votes of the House in favour of the claim: The ChanCelloi of:the Ex chequer in hiving the recommendation of the Crown to the Petition, slitrui , ed a dispo4tion to leave this business to tlfe judgment of the House. 'But as soon as that judgment ;was prononticed,..he• - nrislied to make it a nullity. He thought it an od,Li. argunient to say, that the House should, in deferenee to an other branch of the Legislature, abstain from taking the course which was calculated to give its own re. , trolation the best et e&. The General. ik'ppropriation Act, containing the grants of the year, was the best Vehicle to carry the grant to the Lords. He chal lenged any body to instance a proceeding equally violent as that not , proposed since' the Revolution. Mr. Rose, from papers which he held in his hands, maintained there we re a majority - of cases .of sepa rate grants passed by bill, and not by clauses in _the Appropriation Ail. He argued-at some length on the propriety of making . a separate Bill' on the pre- Sent occasion. ' Mr. ta'tn.LEtt maintained, that the'constitutionnl jealousy of the interference of the House of Lord) with Money Bills, ought to be insisted on, so as not to allow a letter to be igl:lied, - and called Upon the House to maintain its derision, jive times pro nolincM. Sir F. BunnErr thOught - it incumbent on The House to maintain its,decisiOn so 'frequently and so clearly prortbunced. He excused Mr. Palmer for attempting, by indire&, as well as diced weans, to establish his improvements, 'which were introduced into the Post Office under the hostility of every per on in that Otlice. IXa ..e.::1).-oiatedytt the higenOty of Mr. Pahner's invention; and the great amount of the benefiCial effats pro duced by . Mr. Bu itTON denied that the. gen6ral merits of the case of Mr. Palmer formed the, gites - tion. tjdw before the House, The only ; questi6n was' how:the vote passed by this Ilb4se, and to be adhered to so far as this House .was' concerned, should be sent to the birds,, whether in the Appropriation Ant, o r in a separate Bill. He tnointaincd that all the circum stances of the case particularly called tar a separate Bill. Mr. WHAREAD ridiculed the tenacity shewn by his Majesty's Ministers for the-privileges of the Lords. in this measure, when they had 4o largely invaded those privileges in others. Let the Appropriation ACS take its chance. .The ,lionour of thee. House if once lost was irretrievable. . Mr. Secretary CANNING said, the merits of Mr. 'Palmer's case tbrmed no part of the question betdre the House. The only question was, in what Irriil nec.the House should carry its decision into erica. The precedents were not all on one, side. There were some for the course proposed by the Chancel, for of the Exchequer, ma the HouSe: was tree to tbllow the line that should please it. He censured the objMion to referring the whole question to the Lords, because that House. could eXainine witnesses on oath ,to the matters Of fad. It should seem the Honodrable Gentleman thought matters of fad were not to be implied into on oath, but _that mat ters.of opinion and conjeture were ; he insisted on the constitutional impropriety of sending the present business to the Lords, otherwise than in a separate The CHANCation' of the Exontauen denied in his reply, that giving the recommendation Of' the A7 , hin so 36 tp bring a Measure under the cottiidera. ! , twit of the Meuse, implied an obligation to support it iR its-progrsst through the Howe— He also via- . dicated his condua in prop os ing this Bill, on the knowledgo that the House of Lords was examining the agreement with Mr. Palmer... He went into a detailed explanation . of the whale of his condo in this cage, answering the .variaus -cOMinerits urged against him in the course of the debate. After a short expthnatirm from,Sir T. I i tIRTON, the CHANCELLOR of the F.: , :direcluntt, and Mr. S. 130111:SL, the Hou‘sg.: ditidej. For the Motion - . . tB6 Against it . 11143ority for the Motion ' . . • Strangers were notagaiu admitt6d, and the House adjourned at FOLK O'ClOck.. FOREIGN nvrE.,LLIGE NCB. MAnntr, JUNE 3.-This o day Was published, in the:nanie his Majesty the Eropyror of France, &c. Froclatnation to the SpunishNetiOn. The follow ing is a translation of the more important passages Spaniards,! After a long linuring disease,' your nation sank into tlecay. 1 have SepJ) your sufferingsi. I will relieve them. Your greatness tual(ei a part .or mine. . " .Your Princes have ueded,to me fill their rights to the -Spanish Crown. I will, not teign over your provinces, but Will acquire an eternal right to the love and - gratitude of your posk?rity. " Your monarchy is old'. ' it must be renovated, that you nay 'enjoy the bles'iingi of a renovation which shall not be purchased by civil war ordesola tion. _ . . Spaniards ! I have convened a general assem bly of the Deputieg of your provinces and towns, that I may know your desires and wants. . • ‘! . l shall lay down my rights, and place your lustriotls.Crown upon the head of one who resembles me; securing you a Constitution, which will unite the salutary poWer of . the Sovereign . with the liberties acid rights of the Spanish Nation. It is my will, that my mernory.sh'all he blessed by your latest posterity, aud.qh:l they shall say-lie was the restorer of our Conntry.'! ' • ‘. Given at Bayonne, 25th May, 1 808." By virtue of a mandste of his Imperial and Royal Highness the Grand Duke of Berg, dated the 22d inst. the eitisting..COMilliiSroll of Consolidation of the Royal Vales is abolished. .The Commission is in future to be compoSed of the President of Govern.. ment,- of the Supreme Council Of Castile, two Mi nisters of the sante Connell, a Mini ter of the Coun cil of the Indies, and of the Council of the Paaory, and: a Secretary. The tunbimis entrusted to this . Commission' 'are to 'secularise and Sell, as kir as i; requisite, the Cliurch,lands, anti to clipatch all other pressing business, . His linper;:il Highness_ has nominated Colonel CAhAttaus to be hitendAnC-Genv.ratin Chief of the Con•olidition of the Royal Vatcs, With the title of Ma4ter ot the . Accounts, and the fonetions ot .Mi nifitcr of the Comunission of the Government. PARIS', :ma IC—Letters from Bayonne 'of tht loth inst. contain the folloivitm particulars: , Kin J4Epti Naioi.soN arrived, on the loth instant, itt this town, His ffiajeity Was received with all the lioa,c;4l-4.4fte to a Sovereign. The Spanish 15eputiel, the Civil and Military Authorities, had the ho nour fo he pre , ientod to him." LISBON, MAY 98.—1 n imitatton of the tout' of Coimbra, the towns of Le‘'.-ia, Porto,. Arharante, Castello 7 Braticd, :and Iticardaes, have begged pcP- . iziissiott of their Magistrates to illitminate their house (luring threi! days, .in 'ordey to expreas their joy at the favourable sentiments expressed by hie Majesty the Emperor of. the , Prench towards WhiCh our DepUtips to _Bayonne have announced to . us. Amarante, a Tri beilla has been sung, and 'the Most ardent wishes, sent tO heaven for the preserVa tion of Nt.ipleon the Great. Portuguese Clergy, as well 'the Other fie Bodies, have expresSed the most lively enthu siasm. -Among . the Prelates Who have issued pate total letters whiCh breathe a love.ti)r religion and their country, are mentioned the &thous of Porto, .Aveiro, with the VieAr-General, who •acl4. ministers. the •Bishopric of Coimbra in the absence of the . who is a member of the Portuguese • Deputation.: , • its Excellency the Du'ie of AsnANTES has a : new pro 4 Of of his reverence for public worship, in commanding that the :procession- at the Feast of Corpas-aristi; which is eelebrated here with '56 much pomp, should take place as usual. In conto. qittncu,, the latendant-Gmetal.of the Police has is& sued the necessary OrnivalldS, 11131 all the streets throogh which tie pi - oecsiion is to pass, should be adorned wnh the greate.st a:dendour. 4 a, On' t ilif! invitation of his 'Excellency the Duke Or AzaAtifis, the Junta of the Three . Estates liaS held an ifssembly, in order in coMmon with the Deputiell of the first public bodies oftlie kingdom, to frame an Address of Thanks to his Majesty the Emperor and King. ' The Address is already signed. This Junta has been.cOnstituted on the model of that of 1641; which established King JOHN IV. VIENNA, MAY 98.-- - GeHEIRI STUART is arrived in Sicily with 16,000 English troops. JUNE 4.—lt is here'gencrally understood, ,that the evacuation of the Prussian Provinces is not far distant. According to intelligence derived from ' various quarters, it appears, that the French troops are preparing for their depilate.. . KONIGSBURGH, MAY'." . :'.---M. Dc TARR ACH, the Prussian Ambassador at the Court of Stockholm, is arrived here on board a Frigate from that Metropolis. la like. manner M. DE BEINCKMAFN, Swedish Mie nister at our Court, is retained in the 'same Frigate to Sweden. ' Thus all intercourse between the two Courts have ceased. MEMEL, MAY 24.—The WOO Russians who lanti. ed iu Gtithland 'have been attacked by the Swedes, and sent, home. They returned on the loth insL by frutu which place they'sit sail belor&iu nine veslels: . . COPENIIAO. I 3I,,Jurat 3.—Under the circumstances Of the tittles, all excursions for pleasure at 401 llatt been forb.dden, and order's have been, sent to the Conummders of bat teries'on the CODO, ships of war, tkc. to attend to the.observante of this prohibition. From a Norwegian 'Captain of a Vessel who has escaped from sweden; where he was a prisoner of war, we are inforin94,' that the garrison of the little town of lielsinghorg; Consisting of 800 men, every, evening are colle,dted into a ring, and aftersinging hymn, a prayer is read, imploring a blessing on the war against Denmark. Stcckholly has now a very warlike appea r a n C e . `Great adivity . prevails in the Arsenals, ,and several Corps Were on their march to the Eastern and Western Armies, especially to the former great rein forcements 113 , 1 been sent. At Stockholm there were iri all 14 Ships of War fitted cut. tVe know with certainty that the English Fleet or Transports which lately passed the Sonnct, • contaited no troop, but ha& various articles of English mann» factory on board, which it was . intended ,to by some means in the different harbouts of adtid, . The establishment of new works, in order strengthen the fortifications of this City, winch had been decreed, has been postponed for three years * , since the presence of the greater part of the Danish 'Military :wee renders this less necessary.. The English convoy which, on the day before yesterday, went front the vicinity or Mairwie, under sail for the Baltic, is returned, because our. Gun boats were ready to give them a reception, and they have cast anchor in their former station, prohably waiting for reintorcernenk. On, the '27th of May, an order was issued con eerning the.driving of the cattle to pasture, to _pre vent. their being liable to capture.by the enemy. It is said, that in the prizes which were lately taken from the English convoy 'Which passed the. Sound,. a number of letters were found, addressed io different ports in the Baltic, but ,nehe to any of the banish towns, At'the entrance of the Sound, Swedish cruizers are perceived peising and' re-passing. We, may ex.. pea troni the valour and concord of our Privatpers, that they will .let slip, 'no opportunit, but either alone, or All together, seek to obtain the proffered reward. PARIS, .TUNE I I.—the harbour of Genoa is in future, as well aq Marseilles, to be merely a liarbout for merchandize. M the beginning•of this month the English land ed some tr9ops l near Ostend and St. Malo ; but the armed force was to near, that few of the Enemy es caped, neatly all were taken prisoners of war.— Their ohjea was,to seize cattle, and plunder the in , habitant FroM Portrichet, in the Department of the Loire Werieure, it written, that the English keep the Loire continually blockaded, On the .26th, 000 of theirpinnaceS attempted to seize a sloop of le tow, w hi c h, ',;Onilng frOm L'Orient, was stranded' before thein, hot they were driven off by the Custom- house Ortieers. Shortly after, a small vessel; coming from L'Orient, was in the same situation ; the crew left the Sloop, and came on shore,. oh which the Erignsh a , :tually went on board; but the Cuito n . : . house Officers of Portrichet atserphled, and drove them away ; so that the hark arrived at the pl.ie.! of her (l'e4tioation. 4111 the intellitenee which c omes • from thtnick., and eisewhere, ave,e in thi s , t h at 1; .„ .i Otheeri of the Emperor's Cthtotns seize every oe , casion ut contending against the English, and that