The Sun. — London, England, 1808-06-17 00:00:00

bad been mrele up to that period ; -butnot to accede to any other that had since been called tor. ,Conces- , hit; opiniou; had gone as far as was compa till, with the security of the Constitution in Church and. Statp ; and nothing should bring him to endan ger that security, by yielding to flutter claims of the Catholics. The Duke of NORFOLK contended, that the No= ble Secretary was doing that whiChhe.himself was reprobating id"` oil - tea - Jot: '''was pierudging question, 4,the tone he assumed, Meultirnately.de— cidieg Un I:te claims of the Catholics* 'lf the Judges decided that the, Catholics were ineligible, be-would ni , ive that the law' be • altered on the , subjelit, if his Noble Vi tend, who made the motion, should. not think 'proper bido se.' Lad LA UDERPALEridiculed the. idea, that should the Proprietors of the &Ink of Ireland choose a Ca- tholie: as Diregor or Governor, the Catholic 'had eedSi at law if the Protestantlapposed,his appoint trent. Was it by this long endlescconrse.oflitiga, tion that the point in question Was.to .be brought •to a decision before t he Legislature—betbrethat House? • Nothing could he more absurd. • ' The Loan efiAI.:CELLOR couldmot see any useful: result that was likely to arise from consulting the , Judges on this point.' The•House.should first ask themselves if they were prepared to alter the lair as it now stood. He could not think, - they were, aftel-' rill, that had so recently. passed upon this subject. For his own : part he would speak out: It. was his firm and decided opioion, that, concession to the Catholics had gone tar enoegh. EartherconCession Would net ',be consistent iwith the security of the Civil, religious, and political liberties of this Pro testatd State:. • On this point he shyuld take Russell anti .Sidney for his .example and guide; and with them he would, stand against.. any 'dangerous en croachment on the Established Religion, or the Con stitution, as it was settled in Church and State. At the same time, he was not prepared to say, that the Catholic was to be necessarily excluded during the whole of the period for which the charter of ,the Bank was.to last. Neither the Bank of England nor the Bank of Ireland had any right from their charter to insist upon such a power; nor would he deAy Alen at. any time it was not competent to the • tettl; , erate 'wisdom of the Legislature. to.. do' away • such ex ;ltasion. Lord tIoLLAND combated the.argurnents of the l'Sloble.and Learned Lord on theWoolsaek, and also 'those of the Noble „Secretary of State. , The Noble 'and Learned Lord did not argue in the spirit of Sid my an t [lessen ;. and if the Noble Secretary and his friends thought proper to make their:stand on the itc c i 'Jetta), it would have been but fair in them to hat e made ptahlia, their , sentiments' at the time that .Att was. preparing, and not to lidsieheld out a very Jaren:int language, in order to gain the co-'. operation of the Irish Catholics, iii ith accemplish ment. Lord SPENCER and Lord ROSSLYN supported the same side of the question, and they were replied to, andsopposed by Lords Harrowby and Mulgrave, The Earl of ROSSLYN thought it e 6b eetially de , hirable, that where doubts existed as to the con ,Amato') of laws about to be continued, those doubts should be removed: No persoir could argue against the removal of the doubts existing in, the case before their Lordships; but those who' thought it matter of perfett indifference whether Catholics; should or should not be Direetors of the Bank of Ireland. To those who were adverse to the aclmissiomot Catholics to the dire4tion, and to thoie who were friendly to thae‘atimission, the removal .4f the doubts confirmed . hy 'i he very provisos of the present Bill, for'preserv, log to the Catholics the full enjoyment of the rights grained in I 03, by the Mt of the Irish Parliament, was matterof the greatest importance. .Lord GRENVtL.Lie j in reply, took a general review of all the argurnents H urgecl against his. motion.---- The greatest Law Authorities below .the Beath, en tertained doubts on the construction of tne•lrish laW o 1.70,1, -favour of %the Catholics, so far as it re- I d ivor to the point in question. :-,When a- law of h ;olitinuance, or a law of amendrnenti-was to be lea.cd, the first thing to be deneoiccordinr. to the principle laid' down by Lord Mansfield, upon the , jaw . of libel, and subsequently confirmed by Lord Therlow, was to ascertain the law as it existed.— ' How infinitely better would it be to ascertain the haw either by the'opinion of the Judge's . ; or by legal provision, if the opitiions of the J . ldges should be *ltch as still to leave a doubt, than to give room for / a contested eleClion, and for tedious, expensive,. i/exaticies, and irritating litigation Upon the issue of that coriteg, .He very forcibly ridicukd the idea of 4eciding tins qnestion by trial M 'be . Courts of Law, and the opinions of the Judge s , or .appeal to the •f-louse of Lords. With up.v..ardsinf one hundred pi•ecediqg appeals now pencling before their, Lord ships, when could this one come to be decided. pc more Utah doubted besides/ whether,. if the pre - Ant opportunit‘y passed by, and the Bill should be .passed without removing 'the doubt, he feared the whole thirty years for which the charter was renew led would go by without repealing the exclusion., though it was asserted, that that; woukl be perleOly fatty sit any time when it should seem advisrable.--, s iionie persons would always be found, who, like the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, thinking the admission or Catholics to be DireCtors of tie Aiank Of Upland dangerons to the Constitu tion, and to . the State, which was the, security for money inyesta on Bank Stud:, would object to an alteration in the Charter so contrary to their tee t t 4 . On these grounds he would take tne- sense of their . Lordships upon iris motion. Their Lordships divided, CeliteniS for the mot*, prcbetit . 16-Proxies t 7-33. Vat•eontents against the =den; prescnt 4z-Plexiessz-94. . . On the motion of the garl of SMOLK, it was ordeid:atit:i - 'someobservatiotis froni Lords Hawkes bury and Holland, that there should, he laid before t h e 1-Ibuse an Account of all Danish Ships detained previous to the 'declaration of war, with a_view to" Coll'itie attention of 'their Lordships to the Athoutit . and Disposal 'of the . DrUit6 of Unied. HOUSE OF'' THU.IISDAY, JUNE 16. The Braiil 'aide Bill, the Prowiisory Note Be. strietion Bill, and the Hackney-coach Bill, were read third Cale 'and 'pased. !rho Sub-clviiion Clerks Bat went through a Corn mirtee, (hp Iteport . cif which was 'ordered to be re. cr:vived to . .;Enurvow, ' ' • t- The Scotch Sudicatufe Ed! was read a second time, and corrintitted forthwith; a long discussion ensued on several of the clauses, in which the Lnrd Advocate of Scotland, Mr. Horner, Mr. 'Boyle, and the Chanc.ellor of the Exchequer participated. The House having been restarted, the Report was receiv ed, and ordered to be taken into .consideration on Monday. The House went into the further consideration. of ':the Report of the - Cu'rates' Bill. The ArnendMents were agreed to, and the Bill was ordered to he print ed as amended. Mr. VlLLzaits obtained leave to bring in a: Bill for the encouragement of learning, by securing to the Library of the Universities,. and other.public J..ti -I,lcriries, copies of all boolcs newly printed, of re-' !printed, in this country ; and also for . ftirther sem-- ingtopy-rights of works to - their Authors fora lirnit ed time. Mr. Villiers brought in the 13i11 which, i was read a first rime,and ordered' tivbe yeada . setond tithe to-morrow. Mr. LONG obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend and evend the Provisions of the:A& of the 4t3th *of his present Majesty, for vesting powers. in certain Commissioners for the improvement of the City of Westminster. Mr. S. BOURNK- brought up, the Report of the ; Committee pi Ways and Means ; which wasagreed to, and Bill's were ordered accordingly. Mr. Rosi brought up the London Warehousing and •Out-port Exportation Bills. Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. FINANCE COMMITTEE. Mr. WHITFIRISAD rose for the purpose of putting aAnestion to -a Right Hon. Gentleman in his eye, the answer to which appenreu to hint necessary tin. the satisfadiow of the public. As the Session was drawing to a close, it yeas desirable to ascertain whe ther or not the House and the Country were to,ex ped a Report from the Connnittee, at the head of which that Right Hon. .Gentleman. so worthily pre sided. iturnonfi were afloat, that 'a Report of a very important nature had been decided upon in the Committee. He was sure ,the Right Hon. Gentle man would not take it ill to be :bus questioned on the-subje& • Mr. BANKES, While he allowed that the question put by the Hon. Gentleman was a perfedly fair one, declared he hardly knew how to answer it He could only say, fo'r his' own part, , nothing had been wanting to enable the Committee to lay, before the House their Report. During the present Sessign, almost every hour which had not been occupied by his duty,in the HOuse had been devoted to;his duty upstairs. , SO far beck as before the Easter recess, he had laid before the Committee the materials of a Report, whach Was complete as far as it related to himself to nlalie it so. Unfortunately a considerable difference of opinion existed in the Committee on the subjeciof that Report, snd thddiscussions.upOn it had- proCeeded'to a Much greater length than could have beensexpeeted or foreseen. These discussions still contained. Nothing should be wanting on his part to bring theM to a speedy termination ; the Re port might be laid on the table of the House to-nor ! row, and he should much lament if the'circumstances he.bad mentioned should operate to delay the pre sentation of it beyond the present Session. Mr. WHITBREAD thanked the Hon. Gentleman for his candid explanation, •and disclaimed the slight est intention to impute any blame to a Gentleinan who was entitled to the complete confidence of the House and the, country. Mr. Whitbread was pro ceeding 10 . speak the iregtet he felt at learning the probability that no Report from the Finance Coin mittee would be presented during the present Ses sion, when be..was called to order by the Speaker, who observed that there was no question before the House. COMMUTATION OF TYTHES IN IRELAND. - .Mr. M. FrrzOtta,un rose to make his promised caption to refer to a Cointnittee the Petition from the. Coeur) , of Kerry,. praying for a Commutation • ofTy - thes. He presented this Petition, not.only, in conseqUence of the wish expr esse d by his Consti tuents, but also from his own sentiments on the subject, confident as be was that so m e m eamire must be ultimately adopted upon it if it were wished to restore and preserve the complete tranquillity of Ireland. He . defended th© County Meeting at .Which ibis Petition originated, from the censure of having been the cause of the agitation of the public- mind in Ireland upon this topic, declaring that that agita tion had pre-existed for a considi'able time. He entered into a description of the evils of the present system, of which a great majority of the people of Ireland, and even of the Clergy themselves, were fully sensible; but concluded with observing, that as his Majesty's Mi»isters ,had intimated their inten tion to take the .subje6t into their serious cOnsidera lion in the interval between the present and the next Session 4)f Parliament, he should not press his mo tion any further, than to allow it to be the vehicle of any observations which it might be thought de sirable to make upon the general subject. The CHANCELLOR 'of the Excneauga availed bitnSel I of the opportunity afforded him by the .Hon. Gentlemtm's Motion., di:4lo4ly to state, ii i It it was the intention of hid Majesty's Government 'seriously to consider this bus?ness, ofthe importance of which they were completely convinced, He had already Maid considerable attention to it hitnlell, but he re gretted to observe, that the further he went int o th e examination, the more arduous did the task appear, and that the undertaking of applying a remedy to the evil, appeared to be beset with difficulties almost. insurmountable. He repeated, however, that every ettn't should . be made to rem o ve th em . Mr.. PARNELL expressed his satisfaCtion at. the sentiments which the Heuse had just heard from the Right Hot. Gentleman. Mr. PONSONBY concurred in Ate satisfAion ex pressed by lfis . Hon. Friend, but was far from think• ing that the difficulties in the way of some arrange mein by which the grievances complained of might be removed, were so great' as were imagined. General MATTnew stated, that he held in his hand a Petition vu the subjeat, from the County of Tipperary, but that atter what had fallen trout the Right Hon. Gentletnamopposite, he should re frain from presenting Sir G. Hitt, was at,xious CO: kupW., whether or no t his Majesty's Govertitheot tet?dett to take into their consideration 'the commutation of tythes in' Eltglinid as well as - in Ireland. He deprecated any interfer ence on this point . in the one Country which did not extend to the other.. Mr. Heausr recoaime: l 4e,d, in very strong terms, the, measure of a tommatation, .which he was eoevinced would not be' attended with shy in superable difficulty, and which be was, satisfied would be as acceptable to the Clergy as to the Laity. He knew , several instances in which Clergymen bad declared to him that they would be willing to &ate a sixth of their clerical revenue, if it could be coile6ted with more facility, and in a manner less • repugnant to their feelings. Mr. BURTON was by DO means of opinion that this- was an easy subje6t. In that part of Aeg land where for many years he had been engaged , . in the'llischaige of his professional duties, the ad justment of tyt hes had ever been attended with more complication and difficulty than any other matter which had fallen under his notice ; and he had just 'been :told by an Hon.. Friend near him, that in the County of Devon a veiy vigerous attempt which had: been made. to arrange the. 'commutation of ' tythes had been 'abandoned, on the' experience of the impossibility. of success. Mr. SHERIDAN trusted that the people of Ireland would - not relax in theii - Peiitio:is to Parliament on ' this subjbei, fully convinced as he was that what ever Might be said by ;iis-Majesty's Government, it was .to Parliament alone that eventually they must look for redress. He completely differed from the : Honourable and Learned Gentleman who had just spoken, with reseed to the nature of the difficulties by which this subject was surrounded. In his opi nion they were difficulties which a little attention I)e'night obviate. ' iii eases of Inclosure, they were ob.- "tinted at present, and he could not conceive why the .principles which applied to inclosures might not b generally diffused over the whole system of the country. While he was on his legs he would say a few words on a subjed in which he was more per sonally concerned. At the close of the last Session _ of Parliament, in consequence of the passing of two Bills, which, as they were now legislative Ass, be would not charatilerise, in the terms of abhorrence which justly belonged to them, he bad given a so lemn notice of his-intention, early in the present Session of Parliament, to, move for a Committee to examine the general state of Ireland. On the meet ing of Parliainent, however, he had been, induced, by 'the recommendation of 'those to whose advice he must ever listen with.deference on all subjecas, and More especially on every thing which 'elated to Ire land; to postpone t his motion until after the discus sion of the Catholic Petition; a discussion the good effeets of which, on the general feeling of the House and of the country, were very plainly discernable. Sine's that discussion he had been induced still fur ther to delay , his motion by various motives, of which the approaching consideration of the subjed immeclietely before the House was one of the most Weighty ; and as that had been postponed until. so late • a period, he should abandon all intention of bringing forward his motion during the present Sessioe. After some further discussion, in which .Mr. Rose, Mr. Bastard, Sir NV.' Biked, Mr. Fitzgerald,, end - Mr. Lockhart; participated, Mr. FITZGERALD withdrew his motion. . . EXPIRING LAWS. 4 The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHE - WER moved the Order of the Day for going into a Committeeon the Expiring Laws Bi il. On the qtaestion being put, Mr. SHERIDAN objeaed CO the the greund that this Bill was to change the whole course, and practice of Parliament. This Bill was fraught with mischief; because, its preamble states, that" Where as much inconvenience arose from the Expiration of Acts before the continuingßill could be passed." NO inconvenience was proved to have been felt and, if it had, it . was the fault of his Majesty's Ministers that they not did call the attention of Parliament to such Bill. It ought therefore to be called a Bill to encourage the idleness, laziness, and negligence of his Majesty's Ministers. , If . a Bill irnpo , ing, pe nalties, transportation, or death, was near expiring, the etfed of this . Bill would be to continue it with out contemplating that the continuing Bill may not ' pass ; and then, according to this Act, a man spay Comtnit a crime, for which he 'may be hanged, as It were, in a parenthesis. The Right Hon. Gentle man then enumerated a variety of cases in which public mischief would arise it this law were to be Carried into etlca, and concluded by expressing his expectation that the Right Hon. Gentleman would not persevere in the measure. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended, that this measure was not a violatiun of the usages of Parliament for centuries, because the Session of Par liament, according to Parliamentary usage, was con sidered but as one day It was only a few years ago that an Aa was passed, to provide chat As of Par- Ballwin were to hive Ott& from theday of passing, whereas, antecedently, all Ads had reference to the first day of the Session in which they were passed. The Right Hon, Gentleman seemed to think, that it 'was the duty of Ministers to attend to the Acts that were likely to expire, but did not seem to be aware that a Committee was appointed at the com mencement of every Session, to inquire what Bills •were likely, to expire, and if any neglet took place, it was the not of the House. But in the view taken 'by the Right I-lon. Gentleman, he did out seem to be aware that this Bill was not to have etre& by im posing penalties, confiscations, or forfeitures, it was only to continue authorities to maintain jurisdictions, until the enaament - of the continuing Bill. There fore the execution in the parenthesis, alluded to by the Right Hon. Gentleman', could not ,take place under this Bill. It would do much good, and could do no injury. . - Mr. PONSONBY thanked the Right Hon. Gentle- Irian for having attended to the st , ggestion made by him . respeding the inexpediency of continuing pe nalties by this Bill, when he had first mentioned the subject. The ohjeaions of his Right Hon. Friend would have been unaswerable against the original notßill, if it had the Right . been for the proviso intr o d n t e d by n Gentleman, excepting penaltie:s.— But, certainly the introductipn of that proviso re moved a great part of these obje6tions, and, with this . proviso,. he thought that the Bill might be previa:live of benefit in certain eases. The House then went into the Committee. In .the Committee, Mr. SHERIDAN re-stated some of . his objeititons to the Bib after which the blanks were filled . up, and the House having :re sumed, the Report was ordered to be received to morrow, with a single dissentient voice (Slr. She ridott's). - 'no Pilots' . Bill vas read a third time and raised. ; 1 The House resolved itself into a c)-junittee to consider of the 45th Geo. 111. respeaing 'tie inwo.t ationof Rice, Corn, Rum, and Flour, into the WA Indies and on the motion of Mr. hose. the Cluir man was diraled to move for leave to bring in a Bill for Allowing the importation of Rice, Corn, and Flour, from Foreign Colonies and the Con'tinent of America, into 'the Ports of the West Indies; and -on the House being resumed, the Chairman moved forand obtained leave to bring in a Bill accord . ingly. The Prize Goods Bill was committed, reported, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. .The Stamp Duty Bill passed through a Commit tee, in which a short discussion took place between .the Chancellor of .the Exchequer, Sir W. Curtis, Mr. S. Thornton, Mr. Dundas, Mr. D. Giddy; ~Mt. S. Stanhope,, Sir W. Word, Mr. Bereslord, sadM r • Dickenson i upon a proposition to rake the limitition of'eUrrency off the country bank notes of one pool , whilst it was to be continued on those of fivepoug ui and upwards. A division then took placel r oi the proposition :-- Ayes 6 9 No-os • • • r 6 , • Majority: . -53 On the clause respecting the duty to be laic als."; Conveyances of Land, Mr. SPENCea STANtialt arWI Mr. BRAND objected strengly,to the clause, as like ly to be very oppressive on the land proprietors''' To which the CHANCELLOR of the F.;cctiv•atas re ,: plied, that the amount of the Stamp Duly WO I °"' less than at present upon the sales. of lower:1(0'1"r' whilst the duty was in no case to exceed one P er cent. 'upon the proceeds .or the sale. A short 6iS i : cussion then. took place upon this clause, in "h e Mr. Spencer Stanhope f Mr. Brand, Mr.' liusklas f l ! Mr.• Davies Giddy, Sir SMuel Roinilly; M r. Keck, the' Solici tor..;General, Lord . Henry Petty' • Mr. Dickenson, and the Chancellor of the Exebe: quer, to_Pri3arri. after which a division too, f upon ale clause, when the numbers. were , for Mr clause (as we could learn), ' • Ayes ' • • - • 25 Noss , . • . . • orit . A long :.discussionMaj ens y ued on the reniaial alter which the House was resumed; aou the Report was ordered to he received to-nxiirovhd The other Orders of the Day,were then 'WI 4 of, and at Half-past one o:clock this 11)OrtliOg I House Adjourned. , .ARIt Dublin, Duz—l Gottenbulglif i Dublin, kA‘'.4terford. ritiCE Of SrOCl:ti • ?Hls AT TWILVE O'CLOCK. COOSOI3 foi Opening 7o 4.1 Reduced Mw. • • 6gl T El SON. r - 1411.1/4 QUiS OMAR"! SALtUM AuptAT t LONDOA, FItIDAY, JUNE 17, 1808. oFrIcIAL INTELLIGENCZ: rr.om CADIZ . Ints•morning, r.t seven o'clock, Litiat. SVAIT arrived at the Admiralty with Dispatches from Ade miral hntvls,..and he was tliso the bnrer of PO'. patches from General SPENCZit to Lord CASTIP • . wh ich it &Atm. -They were brought in the ;Minorco, arrived at Portsmouth yesterday evening, 3 " d Ads aural MONTAGU s,t he Port - Ada) irai, immediatelY f ern warded them to London by Lient. STVARTione Obi° own Lieutenants. These dispatches are d ated the 914 , 4 ot May, and at. that time the Negotiations b' lvve° A.diniral PURVIS and the Marquis Di Socoao I' s h d not produced any definitive arra . ngemeitt, l'o r any part of the troops under Gener.tl SkOcss been landed at that time. It does not iiPP e3t ' however, that at the date of these dispatch" th' eveP t/ people of Cadiz were acquainted with the Sr which had taken place in the Provinces of Astur" Gaßicia,• Biscay, Sec. and it is by no means surfr i° that, unacquainted with the general oliir it whiff' • • to animates their Countrymen, they should hesitate commit themselves so far as to admit a Blitis h /1.1°(1' into their Harbour, or allow British l'roops if because, undoubtedly, by taking suc h a they were not supported by the rest of the N atia' they would expose themse'ves to the s.inir:.' l°ll the h p, effetis 'of BUoNAPARTE'S animosity. But Vi"" i pro'People of Cadiz, are acquainted with the decisive - cures which have been adopted by the Northern' nr "vinces, when they see the spirit of resistance sr -e' ; e itiP l mg' over the whole kingdom, and a tur3‘ Army assembled to maintain the Indeptiode ll el ft' Nation, there can be little doubt that they w .11 " their Countrymen in the glorious struggle °lli° we before stated , dated thielev3 29th uDltis.PTatiele.lieis anteir:en:l they are engagkid. late as the 6th of this month, which reached us yeverday from Corinna try Ac5A left Gi? NIATEROSA and Don DIEGO DE LA nat cho on the 31st ult. so that, in, faet, these P'sr— :„kno t.l o * are antecedent, in point of date, to ail Inc ""r r eV' accounts which have within these rev; day s re;s and the Marno.s this Cmuntry. Thre Spanlilt Officers caine sayer it tbe fifinLve' c; understand tbey 2re very recently nrriye