The Sun. — London, England, 1818-03-06 00:00:00

PAitLIAMENT. iIOUSE OF LORDS, THIIRSDAY, MARCH A Message from the House of COmmoris, 'brought tip by Mr. Sturges Bourne and other Members, desired a . Copy of (he Report of the ords‘' 04flimittee on the P6iir Laws, with the Evidence. . . . . . , Oo the motion of the Barl of SHAFTESBURY, 'the lle - p4reaudii.iidence itils• : orde'red to be eimn.; tuunicated. Tbe - , leintrers• beinir the Lord ChaticeltorAtated, that th Report had been brderedTh be conbUnnicated, and it was delivered to them by Mr. Cowper. Another Me'ssage from the flotte of Common, brought' up by Mr. Douglas and. other Members; desired the communication of the Report . of the Lords' Secret Committee of this Session. The Memberi being subserfuently called, in, were illtortned by the Lora! Chancellor, that the lionSe would seed au answer by )lesseitgers of its nyvt). Three Road Bills were brow ht up front the Vlottse of Commons by Mr. Blackburn, Mr. Bus- Well, and roller Members, and read a first time. the Loan'CuAscam.,oa read a Letter fro'ni the t'larquis. Of Hastings, 'dated at Cawnpore, iu SePtember'las't. riekirowledging the receipt of the Lord Chancellor's -Letter, communicating the ThAittci 'Ol the House, and expressing his high sense of the honour thins conferred town Ord red Co be entered tir) the Journals. PRICE OF GOLD AND SILVER, IiANK RESTRICT TION, The Earl of rAuDsrcDnt a Moved for an Account Oldie Minket Pt - ices of Gold 'and Silver _of differ ent-denominations, and of the Rates of Exchange nt lianthurgh, Lisbon, and Paris, from the Ist January, 1818, as late Ns the same con's► be made tip, Which was ordered. 116 Lordship stated, 'that the objeci of this motion was to complete the Account upon the same subject akeady before the House. The Noble Earl then observed, that it appeared by the recent Re' nrns,,that the dollar silver bore s higher price than the standard silver in bats. Their Lordships .knew that the ounce of silver consisted of 480 . grains, in the dollar silver there x'rere . about 20 grains tit alloy, whilst the standard silver was [mil!. I t was so impossible to conceive! hat an ounce of silver, with 20 grains of alloy,should be deemed more valuable t ban an ounce of silver with out alloy, that. it was difficult to account for such a statemen't. It appeared, however, that the ac connt recently presented bad left out the word standard., "arid merely stated silver in liars. With the view of obtaining ,more correct information, his Lordship read a motiiin for- an Account of the prices of dollar silver, and standard silver in bars, but on a suggestion of the Earl of Li verpool, across the table, the motion was with rawu. The Earl cif LAUDEtDALE, with a view to the tpreetion of the Bank Restriction, which, he ob served; must in some shape or other come before the !louse, Anil in order‘to ,have accurate infer- Illation respecting the effects of the Restriction, from the time of its commencement, then moved for an account of the average . amount of Bank .Notes and Bank Post Bills in circulation, in each LW year, from the Ist January, 1797, to the Ist Jan. 1814.—Ordered. CLERGYMEN OFFICIATING IN GAOLS. The Marquis of LANSDOWN - Statea, with respect to the Clergy!'lien 6fficiming in Gaols Bill, which stood for a second reacting this clay, that some doubt had arisen respecting one of the claoses 'giving a power to the Magistrates to distniSs the Chaplain of a Gaol, and as . it was probable an other Bill with an amended clause in ' , this respect. might come up from the Commons, he theveiore moved that this BM be read a second time this day three inonths.—:-Orderfd. INDEMNITY .BILL, The Bali of LIVERPOOL NOVed the third reacting `or the'lndenwity Bill. • - Lord AUCKLAND said, notwithstanding he al lowed that several amendments, and in some re spects inrprovementk, had been made in the Bill, lie could not bring his-mind to vote for it in its present state. lie should not, however, de cidedly oppose the third reading, but would move that the Bill he re-cominirteci, in order to its be ing divided into two Separate Bills, as the present 'referred, to Objects Which were properly the ob jects ofidistinct and Separate legislative provisions. fie held it necessary those respectable 'Magistrates w ho had acted laudablyon the recent occasions "should receive 'a l'arli.rinerrtary protection. But when he considered bow small a portion of actual information on the snbject was before the noose, `and when all that torili place went more on thc presumption of what :night have happened, than : from what they knew had actwilly - 'Occisrml, he couhi not reconcile it to his public duty to acquiesce in the measure ac it now stood. lie therefore proved that the Bill be re-committed. The LORD CnAract.:LLott put the question from the WoolsaA, that the words " now read a thiiet time" Siam' part of the notion. Lord KING made a variety of observations stEtainst the measure. The rejection of a proviso moved by a Nobie awl Learned Friend in_ the Committee, to exctude frnut its protection per sons-who had avei maliciotisiy.in the perform ance of their fonctions, confirmed hint the more in his hostility to the uneasore‘ The considera tion also, that every thing which htid been do t je proceeded upon ex-parte grounds, and the' pro ceedings' in many respects wearing . rather the character of those of the Itiquisition, or of (he holy office, at least as fur as regarded their se crecy, farther stren4thened - his-sentiments. lie, deprecated the adoption of such a Bill also on a ground of its 'constituting a danget'ons precedent —the indemnity Act of 1818 he feared would be often adverted to. Ald he.was farther apprehen- Sive tevitemen.. to treason and rebellion would be en enraged by the protection extended tplhose who promoted it; when it was seen they were .protected and patronised by persons in the highest office. Much stress had been laid on the alleged . connexion between the partial disturbances in the country and the ►n tchinations in London, but the whole of. this rested merely ott the' evidence of Oliver - alone. Thus viewing the questio;i, he coiiiti tint at least but suppoil the motioli of his Noble Frienil% Earl BistnutisT•cnintended that the proposition. of the Noble Lord, tor tlividing the Bill into two f• i parts, was one highly n i consistent n i ts nature, and utterly incompatible wide the plinciple col which the measure evidently prOceeded. The Noble Lord was willing to aford_proreetiOn to the Magistrates, but the more important object was to give the due and necessary protections to those persons who afforded that information upon which the Magistrates acted so laudably for the:preser4 vation itna secu rity of the country., Any depar tine. from that. principle would reduce these re.= speetable persons (the Magistrates) to a distress ing and dangerous dilemma; they might he com pelled, in their own defence, to give up those sources whence their infatuation was deriVed.--- , With respect to a Bill of Indemnity, their Lord ships were aware that all Acts of Suspension were unavoidably followed by me,snres of the And such measures as the present were genet ally to-rounded on the nworiety of the facts ; that in 1801 proceeded on the known occurrences which elicited in the course of several years. -The pre sent was grounded on specific and 'known facts, aptl . there was not only the decision of a pom miltee taken on the oecasloo, hut,it had the pe cufiar reconatendation that no warrants were issued except on information upon oath ; this circumstance materially aisiinguished it from the case of 1801.- The measure, he must contend, vas 'necessary for the safety of the country; in this view, with refer-rime to its necessary effect upon' future occurrences, so long an established yule Might not :o be departed from. 'The prin ciple which governed the conduct of the Secretary of State'throughout the whole of the proteedings was highly to his credit, and chit fly with respect to his issuing no warrants except upon informa tion-stated upon oath ; and' what bad happened iu Courts of Justice, though verdicts may not have attached upon some of the accusol, yet it clearly sheaved the existence of a dangerous con spiracy. He deprecated any line of conduct that would leave *men'Who acted so laudably exposed to all the effects of aggra'vated party malice. The whole of what was done towards the suppression of "a most dangerous and alarming conspiracy unavoidably proceeded on- the principle of confi dence its his Majesty's Government, a confidence which alone enabled the Government to stew they liad duly exercised the extraordinary potters entrusted to them. • And he trusted Parliament. Would set its face against a line of conduct which would" materially tend to counteract or destroy all the good 'which had been achieved. Earl GROSVENOR expressed very contrary sen timents of the measure before their Lordships.. ftr from thinking a sufficient 'ground laid for a Bill of hidemnity. now 'were they to know that no inforMations were given but upon oath, when the,whnle was but an ex=parte state ment ? in the case of 1801, he believed the sante course was adopted ; but should they not also receive information upon oath on rhe other side of the question > Though he would support the motion of his Noble Friend, he should, for him self, protest against the :further progress of the measure. In the view of its future operation as a precedent, he regarded its, tendency as danger ous, and be Mint again contend that there was no . proof that- the powerS vested iu his Majesty's Go. Vermtient were properly exercised. His Lord ship then entered into 'a detailed view of a va riety of circumstances, which he conceived to lead to that state of thiugs which gave riseH eventually to the meastire under consideration; and upon nearly 'thewbole of those points he cen sured the'line of polieyadopted by his Majesi , y's Government. .1 nthecourse of these obaervat ions he adverted to the prow. minus of certain printers for the publication , of religions parodies—which pro secutions, lie asserted, increased-in a ten(oldtde gree the publicity and the &Inger, such as it was, o f such publications; Ile had heard hut little of them until that injudicious determination of Mi nisters to persist in prosectiting. After impugn ing the iinancialsystem of Ministers, he ad v erted to (1)6 great militaryimwer lodged in their hands, Witbwhich, and from the other advantages they possessed, he could never think there had been necessity for suspending the Habeas Corps's Act at all ; and of course no necessity for the adoption of so dangerous and- unconstitutional a measure as that now proposed: The Bishop of liIISETER expressed his surprise at what had fallen - from the Noble Earl on the subject of those dangerous religious parodies, which he seemed to treat so Hghtly ; the more Si,,; as be had always considered the 'Noble Lord as a' serious man. For his . part", he regarded these publications in •a very dangerous light ; and al though a witty casual prodnction of an individual m ry have' been overlooked, it was no reason why a cotitinned series of the most dangerous libels and parodies against the established religion of th country'shOuld besot/et - 61 to proceed without prevention or punishment. The consequences of such pUhlications may be highly calamitous. No small mischief had I.).‘en occasioned ,by them, awl it was the duty of his Majesty's Governmens, by every meatta in ahe:r power, to prevent the Conti nuance of a.praet ice so dangerous, and of_ t his he tholiglit the Nrible Earl -himself must be suffi ciently aware.. . Earl GnoSves.on, in explanation, repeated opinion, that the piosecutions, instead of".aliayitrg, tended only to increase the evil; it {tserred too widely to disseminate those ohnnxioas publi,cat ions, ofwhich.not one in a hundred were seen before the prosectitions took_ place. Abstract.: edly no mat) could hold the interests of religion more sacred than himself. The Bishop of EkETEK contended, that the dangerons - pnblitatiobs in ,question were widely disseminated among the lower orders betore Ole prosecutions had been instituted. . • Lord 11.91.1.. e agreed in opinion with:the Hon. ;Ind 'Rev. Prelate ; and took occasion to psue gyrise the conduct o the Magistrates - who had been active in •suppretising the late disturbances, :and whom • he • thought highly worthy of the pro tection of Parliament. - The Loup CH, .:cm:LA.OR eXpressett his opinion, tht, Avith respect to the extraordinary propnsi ti-(Th Of dividing the .13ill" into Imo, he'ditl tint rem callet a sihgle wort} from at” , ae,Nobit L.wds which applied to that point. Witli tegard Et) the conduct of his Majesty's CovernMent, they had endeavoured, throughout this Arduous and critical Inisiness, to discharge their duty to Vie country t lrt large„ but in some views there was"nrore to:te •anPrehended from sosn Of the rich than &bin the prir. The poblicationiyhic-WO prOperly calted• for the reprehension of the Reverend Prelate, and others of that character, were not Duly directed . against the Established Church, but against reli gion- in general. Did any Noble Lord mean to say, that when the country, was literally deluged with such publications as those alluded.to, and those obviously calculated for the purpose of even destroring the altar and the throne, that his Ma jesty's Government were to hesitate in applying the powers of the taw, with a view tc) their coun teraction, and, for the support of these great bul warks of every thing dear to us !.-;-(1-lear When thousands, nay, millions of such publica tions were inchistrionsly circulated throughout - the country, let their Lordships renrember . well what such publications had given rise won former occasions itt this coontrv, alnl more recently in other countries. Those who sent them into the country. were answerable also for what indi vidual mischief they had occasioned, - 'for what many persons had suffered, not politically, but for the commission of capital ofienees, and that was :acknowledged in the confessions of these individuals; under sue!) circumstances, were they to be w . thheld from proCeeding, when all that was worth preserving in the country was ac tudly aimed at,?---(Hear, hear, hear r)--1 - le had - Inicrthe misfortune to live in times when it wag 'largely attempted, by the dissemination oflibels, not upon Ministers, nor 111)01) individuals, for al leged conduct (o,ough either would afford ample grounds), but in foilowitig'up a general system of' libelling for the destruction of the public:charac ter, and the Constitution of the country; and the thr: y of those who directed its Councils, in*such a case, was not for a moment doubtful. Let those times be looked to, and they would find that great obloquy was endeavoured to be cast upon himself, anti on those with whom he acted, for tit,ir con:. duct at that critical and eventfuiperiod. Let them now consider what the coinhict of the preseot Law Officers of the Crown had been, and say whether they did not think it not only justifiable, ,but laudable and exemplary ; and wh e ther,. by a faithful and zealous dischar4e of their public du ties in acting as they slid , they were not richly de serving, not of oblinvy or censure, but of the thanks and the applause of the country ?—(l.lear, hear r) The Marquis of LANspowtic argued at some length in support of the amendment. The Earl of . ‘VESTMORLAND spoke against it. The Earl of CARNARVON spoke against the Bill, and in support of the amendment. After the Noble Earl had concluded, the ques tion was loudly called P>r, nod the strangers were excluded, preparatory to a Pending the exelntimm, Lord AUCItI.D'S amendment was, we undetstan4negativcd without On the main question for the third re4 , ling of the Bill (the Earl of CARNARYON having moved that that proceeding should orke . place o►► this day thrce months), a division took !dace. Not Contents 49, Proxivq. . 49 Q 3 Comtemts. • Alajoilt, - fur the third read i:rg of the 8i11.....16 Adjo-ulnetl till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Petctions were presented frOut the riZeq Division of the County of Kent, from the. City of 'Waterford, and front Wrexham, against the Leather Tax. Sir JOIFIN NEWPOiIT moved fir an Accoimi , of the.Ninn her of Days in each. Month and Year on *hich the Coairkis sinners appointed to examine into the Fees of - the Cornets of Justice in the three kingdoms had performed any services 9 and the inis.awarded to t'neni for such services. A Bill for inipoSirsii a Liceiice-doty on Dealers Aquia•vitze in Scotland was brought 'bp, read a• lirbt time, anirurtlesed to be Fead,a second time to 7 nroFru«•. , • Mr. C r ITIOVEN moved fur an Accotrnt of the quantity of Coale iMported into Ireland in 1916-and lRl7', distinguishill the Pontt into which they were imported r and the Ports from; which they cane. The Ma.,•ider Duty went through ateam7nittet.-Re— port'to,morrow. A.Return was pres'ented of, the, Mints of all the Persons ar7eit4qt 'Wilder the Sospeniot4 of thc . Haheas Corpus Act, with the titnewbett tltey were respectlintll arrested and. set at liberty., Tllc West ItuTia Indemnity Bill %vent through. a Corn mitt.tte.:—Re port to-Norrow. 'EDUCATION OF THE LOWER ORDERS OF THE METROPOLIS, Mr. 13eotronAm rose to move for the re newal of the Committee to inquire into the educa tion of the lower ()viers of the ntetiopolis. stated, ;dirt t Ire objeet of the Committee was to-sug gest the best remedy for the evils which resal!ed from the 'Want of the education of the lower or ders, And to recommend the house. to give such pecuniary assistance as would be—advisable for., the erection of Schools. The Conimit tee did not with that any permanent income shoot(' be es tablished for these schools., because if was felt that this might tend to diminish the amount of private charitable cOntribut The evidence which Was broughebefore the Com mittee went to show that only a moderate slim was wanted for this purpose ; and he had no-doubt , that Parliament w ould have no objection to make some grant for the same ohjiects in .I.ngland, which cost no le , 4s a stem yearly -than 40,0001 , voted to Irish charter schools.. lie regretted to Alihrls that no inconsiderable part these Irish funds were Misapplied, or nitacconnted for. Talc ; •ing into consideration other sums voted for-simi lar purposes in Ireland, the whoie amount 6t ,0001. anal it would surprise the lloitse to learn, that,' at the tittnos4,. uo mote than 25 , 00 children were educated upon these futicli. The number of 2500! be stated as the outside, though the late Mr. Howard tooth thot,not one-third of that /lumber was educated, notwiths . anding tlic !' am o tio t o f th e farms was propot tioued to t fiat , total' number. 'Since his time things were Cer tainly-much improved, in consequence, pethAps, of his exertiOns. Whatever assistance would be given by . Pat liantent, he hoped .it would bc given in. such a way as was most likely to prevent niisrili - plieation, lie did not think that',a great Tor- Ilan of tl'e expellee would.oltintately fall on 'the public. ' Thiele were large fonds in .the chnntry accumulat.ed front 'private 'charities, Wtiiith wet e griissly misapplied. Large • endowments were continued to 'school , : :Which' bad—long fallen to edits. Ile thoneht the misapplientipn of the , e p charitable fune6 required the caost Serious a tten, . . ! ioo of the Loose; and another tribunal thin , Committee of the Douse was necessary in mkt' . to investigate these abuses. One instance lie knew: About 200 years ago a public school re ceived a' grant of several acres of . laud. The land -, at present yielded a considerable - revenue; tvhich t‘revenue was. erigrossed entirely by some schoolmaster, and not applied to its final purpose. It was, in truth, little known to what extent these abuses existed iu the country.--- 1 He should therefore recommend a. Parliamentary Commission, to inquire into the application of charitable funds lest well for the purposes of eda• cation. lie took this opportunity of correcting ri mistake into which the comMittee, as well as himself, had fallen two years ago. It was theri stated, that in a neighbouritag county the funds of a charity school were grossly misapplied, it .was stated, the only 40 scholars were titught . and by a mere mechanic. This tv , .s not the fact. There tt ere several assistants ; and the full ntiwl , her of scholars were taught in the school. He concluded with moving the renewa.l of the Com mittee. • Mr. F. ROM:ISOM—aid flat rise to oppose the motion., bin mervi.y to etate, that he was mately act - painted ‘li;b: the Clergyman alluded cc - , liy theJlou. and Learned Gentleman, and must testify the tinth of what was said by the Ho . Gentleman respecting his excellent conduct in !lie Cat mentioned.. ," • Mr. 'BROUGHAM explained: Mr. PEEL Said, that it the Hon. and Learned Getnlenp-in had looh'ed into the Report presented to (lie llimse in 1808, he would have tonna hour much the state of the Irish CharteredSehools way improvtd since • the of Mr. Inward, The Hon.• and Learned -Gentleman over-rated the amount of the . revenue. of. these Schools, which) Mitt not in the whole excetd 30,0001. per annul'. In the comparison of the Irish Chartered School . Society with the Hibernian School Society, it Wt to be considered, that at the, Chartered School* the children were not merelyeducated, but cloth... ed and maintained whereas in the Hibernian School Society they were merely edtreated; proportion of Children Mahltahird by the Char tered Schools could not be thought small, when it was conSidered, that the Maintenance &t-eacis boy, with the utmost Irtrgality, could not be tlotm for a less sum than 144. a year. Mr. IlttoubtrAm explained. 'Mr. W..Slurrn thought there was-one sottrce of abuse in the management of endowments for timO education of the poor, which had not been alluded to—naincly, that time value of - these funds hall 3f , aincitincreased,,,that th-cy could. not be exhausted in the,eduCation-ut the objects within the scope of time foundation. Mr. ArnsuCRF4RIE thought' if any Commission was app , ointed, it ought to be .authopiied quire into Charities generrilly 2 . -Ile did not to- embarrass the Comtnittee_now mom!: for, or gener,dising the,ohj,ect's of ils.illiptiry. But he wos-.,. so convinced that thii.getterlil inquiry should LP maJe,ihat he gave notice oti,er Member moved for it, he would thinklit his chitty to 46 so. • Getl ' CTl•ll THORItFON saitr,A4* at it be'ti , ! visable-to . have the chiltii . .eit in dimity sichonli tatig - ht . . - same useful tvoilis ;cif iticlusiry'i it %vouiil the expt-nce. • ?; The 'notion was - thzty tap'eetl to, auti the Cern •Klitlee gppointed,' sAr.T DUTIEti. Mr, DAVENPORTpreseirt . o a peti , ion from. Ole' Clergy, Gentry, Freeht . 4defs, at,tl others of Che- . shire, praying for the lief hl of the Salt Daties , Read, ordered to lie on the table, hod to. 17 °`' printed. . . P'ET'ITIONS RESPECTING PIS • Mr. l'unt-ti , s, before entering upon , the Os*. trot) of whieli he bad given !uke- for this dAy. , i»,)yed that the several> petition , presented to rloc.' [louse from Mancliestl:r, and .various duals, relative to the employment of Spies, he ell' tered - on he Journals. as'sread, . 'Fire petitions were entered as read. Mr. rtim.34 , -;;sraill,: that he wished it 10.11? an' ders , !ood.in the outset. of what he had to'otfer to' the House on this ocCasion„ that lee did not mea' l / to pass any encominnion those hit:err-4u o ra:or 9 whit had ,cent so busy yarious parts cat the contr . ' try. His, opinion or these persons might be gathered from what he had lately said in the %Val of advice to one of those p4 . 1-sons. 'iuce he liaa come to town that person had applied to him, ott which he 'advised tam not to concern him:sell' about polities or the affairs or the Stare,. hut 1 0 attend to his tauiily and his business•. With re" spect to 11)e suhiect tti which he Wish.sd to im mediately to, call . the'attention of the House, thought it proper tosay, that Ire was, aware Clac a great pot [ion of tbe , people had been in a gre'At state of ferment; and that the most important anti most difficult queitbaislrad been e.iscussed by half-- starved labourers and manufacturers. Such ' l ' suite of things teas so dangerous,. that it ottglit/ necessarily to attr ac t the attent'ion, of Gayer"' ncent. It it was necessary to employ spies, Ilief ought to be watched most narrowly; for it a uttsg be evident that they,hadthe power, to a dre a dfij extent, not only of discovering., but of creatinte r danger. That danger was ..mite'lt greater w het'- tht . !y were emplo3 ea among. the lower orders bol l , if t hey were st:m among the higher classes of so' ciety ; for among the tatter (bey were not likcic to acquire much ;:atence, but, with' the formee their superior infottnarion was likely to, give then/ •ratich infitLqice„ . and so toin,ll:e: thern be chosen 1 ,5 , leaders ttijd directors, and promoters of schemes ( 4 violence which would not. otherwise have bee!' thought of: It . ,wli, with much satisfaction.tl he WaS authorised by Sir. John liyog to statei thOL. L o u spy hall ever been employed by that gallan t officer, nor bad any such ever been in his car' riage on any occasion whatever, and farther, 1 1 ' 4 he never-had ,any communication with such ,clo' racters up to the '2l9tit of March. Whoever ,nev i the g,IILInt 6ft:Cei . tc Ito11: he had Mimed, Must kno`` f that his , hutnanity was as great as his;co tt rage, 9 ""' that on what:vet military service it might be l" 'ditty to be employed, Ire never was forgetful ° what was• doe to the subject of a free state Fl :hod all along acted tinder the infitterme s of the` e. feelings:, and owing to that had more than.once cur red the di4leasure of the Magistracy, by deeli e ingto comply avid, their too e:eat ea,:erne<s to c rfl ploy the military iii the suppression of any distia l7# tune. With tesiSect. to tire 11101i0I3 witlch Ire ii•v 1