The Sun. — London, England, 1864-07-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE Or LORDS—Last Evening. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat upon the woolsack at the usual hour. Lord STRATFORD DE REDCLIFFE said he would postpone putting the question with reference to the corre spondence published in the Morning Post until next week. THE ATROCITIES BY THE PE.USSIANS. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, in pursuance of a notice which he had given previously to the noble earl the Secre tary of Foreign Affairs, called attention to the following telegram, viz : " SONDERBURG, July I.—At the partial clearance of the battle-field, yesterday, 400 Swedish velunteers were dis covered, to whom no quarter was given." Which in plain terms meant that 400 wounded men, left in a helpless state on the field of battle, were butchered in cold blood by the Prussian soldiery. He wished to know if her Majesty's Government had received any information which would enable him to speak to the truth of the statement. He believed it was true, from what he had heard of other acts of cruelty perpetrated by the Prussians. Earl RUSSELL said he had no information respecting the matter, but he would make inquiry into the circum stances and communicate with the noble earl. BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS. In reply to Lord CRANWORTH, Lord BROUGHAM said he did not intend proceeding further with his bill on this subject this session. THIRD READINGS. The following bills were read a third time and passed : Dundee Churches and Hospitals, Rammell's Patent, Wal ford and Edgware Junction Railway, Great Northern Railway (Bar►et Branch), London, Chatham, and Dover Railway (No, 1), Llanelly Harbour Improvement, Clyde Navigation, Caledonian Railway, Macclesfield, Bollington, and Marple Railway, and Scottish Central Railway. FACILITIES FOR DIVINE SERVICE IN COLLE- GIATE SCHOOLS. This bill passed through committee. In committee on the Publichouses Bill, Lord EGERTON of TATTON moved the omission of the words giving power to town councils to adopt the pro visions of the Act if they think fit. Lord GRANYILLE opposed the amendment, and on a division it was negatived by a majority of seven, the num bers being— for the amendment, 21; against, 31. Their lordships adjourned at twenty minutes to seven. HOUSE OF COMMONS.--Last Evening.] The SPEAxmt took the chair at four o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The London Docks, St. Katherine Dock, and 'Victoria (London)•Dock Amalgamation Bill was read a third time and pasted. The following bills were considered and ordered for third reading :—Ardrossan Harbour—Helston and Penryn Junc tion Railway—and Wandsworth Bridge. PAYMENT OF RATES BY OFFICERS. Colonel NORTH asked the Under Secretary to the Trea sury if any arrangement had yet been arrived at between the Treasury and the War Department relative to the pay. meat cf rates by officers in the army for houses occupied by thou in the performance of their public duties ? Mr PEEL said that the committee appointed on the subject were still considering the question suijudice. THE. REGIUM DONUSI. Sir H. BRUCE asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether the Government would, in accordance pith the re quest of a numerously signed memorial, increase the grant commonly called " Regium Donum" to the Presbyterian Church in Ireland ? Mr PEEL said it was not considered advisable to recom mend an increase of the grant. POLICE-CONSTABLE 214 B. Mr WHALLEY asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether police-constable 244 B, as to whom Mr Arnold, the magistrate at Westminster Police court, publicly stated on two several occasions in the month of Ma} last, that he could not believe him on his oath, or to that effect, is still continued in the force. . Sir G. GREY said that no representation on the subject had been made by Mr Arnold to the Home Office. GOVERNMENT ORDNANCE. Sir J. HAY asked the Under Secretary of State for War to lay upon the table of the house a return showing the number of guns in store and in use of such a nature as the late experiments show can be effectually used against armour-clad ships of the Warrior class ; and asked what steps Goves nment were taking to provide a sufficient supply of guns for the armament of our torts and fleets, of such a nature as 'late experiments show can be effectually used against armour-315d ships and forts, specifying as follows :—the calibre of gun ; whether rifled or smoothbore; the construction of gun; cast-iron, coil, steel, or wrought-iron; the weight of gun; the length of bore; the weight of shot and shell; and, the servfce charge of powder. The Marquis o f 11ARTINGIONsaidthat such details as were asked for by the hon. baronet could not advisably be submitted to public inspection. 'Efforts were being made to give an adequate supply of rifled guns to the service. THE RUMOURS 114 REFERENCE TO ALSEN. In reply to Lord R. MONTAGU, Mr LAYARD said that no official information on the subject had been received by the Government on this eul;j:ct. TIIE DA.NO-GERMAN QUESTION. ADdOURNED DEBATE, Mr COBDEN, who on rising was greeted with loud cheers, said—Mr Speaker : «e are indebted to the two hon. gentlemen who have moved amendments for having en larged the subject of our deliberations. The hon. member for Bridgewater has proposed at a future time to move an amendment for the approval of this house of the course her Majesty's Govrnment has taken in the affairs of Denmark. That is an amendment which, though not endorsing the steps or proceedings by which we arrived at the result, the house is pretty generally inclined to endorse. The hon. member for 'Warwickshire has proposed an amendment that this country shall guarantee to Denmark the disputed possenions of Schleswig and Holstein, left in dispute after the Conference, thus raising the issue aye or no whether this country shall adopt a policy of intervention and war in tho case of Denmark. Mr NEWDEGATE—My proposal was that the pro posal of the neutral Powers in the Conference be sup ported by this house. Mr COBDEN-7 apprehend the hon. gentleman means to support that policy by war. That is all I meant to infer. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman has not got up to con tradict me. The right hon, gentleman who brought forward this motion has not confined himself to a declaration of fact, or a statement of judgment of this house upon the conduct of Government, which I think he could have wisely done ; but he has rather sought to lead us into what I would call the region of prophecy, for he proposed for our assent a declaration that the course of policy which the Government h as pursued has had the effect of lowering us in the councils of nations, and has diminished securities of peace. Now, sir, whether we have been lowered, or are to he lowered, in the councils of nations, much depends upon our own future conduct. (Hear, hear) For the present moment I am constrained to admit that as far as the conduct of our Foreign Office is concerned, we do not stand in a satisfactory position. (Opposition cheers.) In regard to the declaration that the curse that has been taken will have the effect of diminishing the securities for peace, I join issue distinctly with the right hon. gentleman. (Hear, hear.) lam of opinion that what has happened—the exposure we have had of the utter futi • lity of our foreign policy—the complete break down of our diplomacy—(hear, hear) —will have the effect cf transferring these questions for'evermore from the dark recesses of the Foreign Office to the publicity of this house, which will afford us a better guarantee for peace than we have ever had. (Hear, hear.) But while I say that Ido not wish it to be understood that I come here to endorse:or excuse the course the Foreign Office has taken in the late negotietions—for I consider it to have been deplorable and most unsatisfactory —I do not s peak with censure or harshness of a n y a tt emp t by the a o vernDleilt to promote peace. 7 do not even quar re l with them for hawking about in every capital of Europe their importunities for peace, but what has struck m e i n reading these volum ineus despatches is the great want of sagacity on the pert of our Foreign Minister, (Hear, hear.) It is the want of knowledge and appreciation of the motives and forces Which guide and control the actions of foreign nation-, and which appear to ma to be so transparent that even a child itself might perceive them. (Hear, hear.) Under these c ircumstances it is that the head of the Foreign Office has I think uedoubtedly exposed himself to rejections, to rebuffs, and I might say, as far as that department is concerned, to humiliation in all parts of the world. (Cheers.) Now, Sir, so much for the question, which lies very much between the front bench on the other side and the front bench on this aide of the house; but there is dquestion much beyond that which interests aspirants for power and office, and if there was not I should take no part belhisdiscussion. Now, Sir, there arises out of this the additional question of principle as affecting cue foreign policy,We hai , in this question of Denmark and Germany these two issues, have tormented us so long, brought bo fore n„,tlie which ati es flans of the dynastic, secret; and irresponsible ena'ane meats of our Foreign Of .:3; and we have a►so the question which is not ancient but new —the question of cur foreign policy et this time—l mean the question of nation elite,. By ne.tionelity 1 mean the instinct which is now so powerful, leading communities to seek to live together be ceuse they are of the same race, language, and religion. Now, Sir, what is this treaty of 1852 of which we have heard so much, and which forms the positive basis of these die ? Eight gentlemen met t if:ether in London, at that celebru';ed round table, to decide the destinies of a million of people who were never consuited upon the question at issue. (Ileer, hear.) N.)w, let us take note of this. It is the last _ dip!ornatic action. It cannot be tatted agaiin E eery man there will never again join in a ful conference—l mean a conference meeting together to dispose of a population whose interests and wishes they do not take into account. There never will be another held in Europe, probably, in the history of the world. Now, let it be borne in mind it is upon the policy of secret irrespons ible diplomacy and the question of nationalities that our de bate turns. We ail know what followed the attempt to force a population to live in conditioni which were not acceptable GL_sio a 8 SUCC . :n 2 brIZ hi?torr to them. The Government of Denmark itself is now ad witted on all hands not merely to have failed in its obliga tions, but failed in its engagements, in the treatment of the Schleswig - Holsteinpopulation, which was unfortunately confined to the rule of that dynasty by treaty, to which we are referring. The Danes troubled and harass: d the people of Schleswig-Holestin in a way that i st peculiarly painful, and which always affects us most sensitively as a people —I mean they interfered with the use of their lan guage, Denmark troubled the Schleswig-Holstein popula tion with functionaries speaking the Danish language; they firelight to constrain their youth to learn the Danish lan guage when it was not their wish to do so. They sought to gain advantage for their own university, against the wishes of the Schleswig-Holstein people, Well, they tried again precisely the same thing which had been so unsuccessful in the case of Holland, when Holland tried to force her language on the people of Belgium, The consequence was a great grievance—and the German people, sympathising with people of their own race in Schleswig-Holstein, took up the cry that was raised in these provinces. Is there a public man who has taken part in public affairs for years past who has not been flooded with the grievances of the Schleswig-Holstein population ; I declare I could measure those which have reached me almost by cubic yard. I am afraid 1 have not been a very diligent reader of them ; but we must not forget that at the bottom of this question there lies a grievance, and there lies a grievance of a small popu lation against a powerful one. This interest of the Germans in the Schleswig-Holstein question continued for 10 or 12 years. At length it culminated in a state of violent utter ances, that you may almost say the Government of Ger many, fearing there might be a revolutionary movement in Germany in favour of the Schleswig-Holstein population, summoned the Diet together, with the view of taking the matter into their own hands. The Diet is a slow body, with a very imperfect organisation, and before they could act the two great Powers of Austria and Prussia interfered in this affair between the Schleswig-Holstein people and the Ger man people, and invaded that country, for they had their standing armies—which are the standing evils, you may say, of Europe at this time. (Hear, hear,) Now do not lec us forget, when we arrive at this point, that because the absolute Governments of Austria and Prussia entered into contest,they did not affect the original merits of the question. It is difficult for us to conceive any action taken for a cause of laierty or nationality of which Austria or Prussia are the champions; our very gorge rises at the idea of the Austrian Government taking an army of Hungarian, Croatian, Bohe mian, and perhaps Italian soldiers into Schleswig-Holstein, to fight the battles of nationality. (Hear.) These two Govern ments have been playing the demagogues to the German people ; there is none so subservient to the passion of the people as your sceptred demagogues, I am noc going to trouble the house with a single quotation from our blue-books, and I hope to propitiate the favour of my audience by removing all dread of that infliction; but in order to show the change which has taken place in the progress of society in Europe, in order to show to what a degree the democratic principle, or, if that term is offensive, popular sovereignty in Europe, has progressed during the last 30 or 40 years, allow me to read, in connection with their invasion of Schleswig-Hol stein, to do the behests of the German people, an extract from a manifesto to the sovereigns of Austria, Russia, and Prussia, dated Layback, Nay 12, 1821—that was the time of the Holy Alliance. It says :—" Useful or necessary changes in legislation, and in the administration of States, ought only to emanate from the free will, and the intelligent and well-weighed convictions of those whom God has ren dered responsible for power. All that deviates from this line necessarily tends to disorder, commotion, and evils far more unsufferable than those which it was intended to remedy." Penetrated with this eternal truth, the sovereigns have not hesitated to say it with frankness and vigour. They declare that "in respecting the rights and independence of all legi.. timate Powers, they regardas legally null, and as disavowed bythe principles which constitute the public right of Europe all pretended, reforms operated by revolt and open hosti• lity." That was the doctrine of the alaso.ute sovereigns in 1821. islow we are told, not only upon the authority of our own representatives, but upon the authority of the repre eentatives of Austria and Prussia themselves, that they are constrained in the course they are now following by the ne cessity they are under—the pressure, to use the term of the Foreign Secretary, they are under from the German popu lations. Now, I mention this most significant and pregnant fact because it shows how completely the state of Europe has changed. It shows how we need be under no apprehen sion, in future, of holy alliances of sovereigns. There may be holy alliances of the people, though that does not seem very likely yet. Now I come to our own course in those proceedings. What were we to do when these two great military Powers went into Schleswig Holetein ? Were we right in offering our mediation? I think there can be no office more dignified, as there ought to be nc office more safe than that of a mediator. (Hear.) If there be a blessing at tending on any one, it is, as we are told, on the peacemaker or the attempted peacemaker. Now, what I find in this coun try's policy—whether advocated by one side or the other— what has been unfortunately the tendency of this country is I this—that when we set up for the office of mediator, we seem never to know the line which separates the mediator from the partisan. No sooner have we entered into this :Schles wig Hol,tein question, simply with a view of attempting to keep the peace, than parties here, both speakers and public writers, instantly take up the attitude of partisans, and, forming their own views by their own counsel, they are for transferring themselves into the attitude of belligerents. Nothing could be more unfortunate for the cause of peace than that the principle should be recognised that, when you attempt to serve as mediator ; ft involves the risk of being dragged into the position of a principal. Why, even in the old days of duelling, except in the most barbarous times of the Ireland of the past century, it was considered rather sharp practice, because a gentleman went out as a second, that he wa3 obliged to take part as principal with the other second. (Laughter.) Now, I am going to say what those who speak for mere popularity would not care to say, viz., that the great fault we commit in these things always is that we allow ourselves to be betrayed into something like menace without duly measuring the power we had to carry out our menace. (Opposition cheers.) There is a policy of menace in this country. (Hear.) It is familiar to all who read certain journals and who hear certain questions put in this house by those who talk about where our fleets are, and those who in another house—or in another pl:ce—(laughter)—who ought to know better, and whose voices ought to be hoard in other accents than those of incendiaries—(hear, hear)—those who talk about sending out our fleets. Now, I intend to treat this question in the way in which other countries treat it, for we should be the merest Chinese in the world if we did not look the matter fairly in the face ourselves. Those who talk of our enter ing into these affairs in conflict, and settling them in a spirit of dictation, have they considered what our power is to carry out our will in any way on the continent of Europe ? No doubt for our own defence, in our own island home, our powers are, if I may say it without irreverence, all but omnipotent. All the world could not assail you with success in this country. (Hear, hear.) But when you talk of the power to coerce military nations on the Continent, your powers are very limited indeed. Send a fleet to the Baltic, was the utterance which I heard in another place. What would a fleet do in the Baltic ? (Hear, hear.) Blockade the Prussian ports. Well, Lut railways had all but rendered blockades practically inopera tive, except in such an extraordinary case as that in America, where the blockading party also commands the internal communications of the country. But I must not forget to mention that we are liable to attack in that way. Recent experience has taught us that you cannot localise war by sea. We should be liable to retaliation on the °cone. What can we do in this case of the Prussian war ? Our war would be with the -German people. Recollect what I told you, that the Austrian and Prussian Governments are mere demagogues doing the behests of the German people. They have an honest sympathy with the inhabitants of Schleswig and Holstein. They are actuated by, I believe, generous motives, and I dare say a very large portion of them are heartily ashamed of the champions who forced themselves into their service. But what could you do in a war with 40 millions of Germans to carry out your will with reference to this question ? I am speaking now in answer to the hon. member opposite (Mr Newdegate). What could you do to maintain that slice of land in Scleswig for the Danes ? You would have to fight the whole of the Gorman people in a frenzy of excitement and thoroughly in earnest, imbued with convictions the growth of 10 or 12 years' constant pamphleteering and newspaper writing. You could attack Austria and dismember her from her outlying provinces ; but do you think that the Germans would greatly grieve to see the extra-Teutonic limbs of Austria cut away? It would not affect the German population. The grievance to wards you would be with the German race. I put it to both sides of this house, is it not high time that there was some mode by which the Government should know the wish of this house upon this and kindred questions ? Be cause we do not know to what extent this very war which is now raging may extend. It may be half over Europe, and that is the question which we have to ask ourselves, and the only point I feel any interest in debating on this occasion, because you know I have said for two years past that, whe ther the present noble lord is in office or whether Lord Derby is, is a matter to which I attach no importance whatever. I think you (to the Opposition) are very wrong in attempting to remove the noble lord, as he does your work better than Lord Derby would. (Laughter and cheers.) He throws die rcait on reform. (Hear.) He derides the 220 gentle men w ho are pledged to vote for the ballot, and, as the gallant officer (Gen. Peel) said yeserday, he spends more money, and is far more extravagant, than we should allow to do if you were in office. Besides all this, if you will ni."o him time, and if, instead of killing him, as the right ho n. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) said you spar e hi m the pangs/of dissolution, and allow him to die a n a t ure' death, speak i ng officially, I am confident that, when he has designedly demoralised his own party, he intend '' , when he makes his political will, to hand over office to you (Loud laughter.) as residu ar y; legatees. Now you see I rerf --''ctlet understand what our neighbours the French call the o situation." But I want you, irre spective of party feeling, which has long been dead in this house, to consider the impo r t ance a nd gravity of these foreign questions They will trouble you when you come into office. Recollect there are only two classes of questions upon which Governments when in office fall. The one is the class of foreign questions, the other that of financial questions. (Murmurs.) You will not find a Government fall from any other cause. (A. voice —How about reform P) Oh, no, they dont go out on reform. (Loud laughter.) It is only you who do that. (Renewed laughter.) Now, is it not worth our while to consider these questions, and, at the only time when we can draw serious attention to our foreign policy, to try to enunciate a principle for our better guid ance in future. What is the ground of our foreign policy. Why do we interfere in these affairs abroad ? There is not, I believe, one treaty binding us to go to war on the Conti nent. There was only one treaty in the settlement of Vienna, and that was a treaty entered into by England, Russia, Austria, and Prussia, in which they bound them selves solemnly, in the name of the Holy Trinity, by force of arms, if necessary, to prevent for ever any member of the Bonaparte family from sitting on the throne of France. (A laugh.) lam not aware of any other treaty. (An Hon. Member—Belgium,) Then Belgium is an exception. Then why do we trouble ourselves with these continental politics ? We have no interest there territorially. We gain nothing there by your diplomatic meddling. Our general excuse is —it is a phrase which is stereotyped in the despatches of the noble lord the Foreign Secretary—that we have a policy founded on what is called the balance of power, which I never could understand, but I believe it is a figment which is supposed to have grown out of the settlement of Vienna, which I call the great unsettlement of Vienna. Can we, in the face of these growing popular interests, any longer base our foreign policy upon that treaty of Vienna ? We are not bound to do anything by force to maintain that treaty. All we are bound to do is not to violate its undertakings. What has that treaty done for Europe ? I hold in my hand a short extract from the writings of a great Italian, one'ot the noblest, most disinterested most accomplished, and bravest of the patriots of modern times, and who bore the heat and burden of the day—the Marquis Massimo d'Azeglio. Writing in 1847, he says—" I believe all the disturbances which have agitated Europe from 1815 to the present time, all the discontent and revolutions of those 32 years, and all the moral inquietude which more or less agitates society, have been oaused by the unnatural and forced partition of Europe by the Congress of Vienna. Its measures for the establishment of peace and tranquillity in Europe were the germ of all the wars and revolutions which have since oc curred, because the only interests then cared for were those of dynasties, families, and privileged classes, without any consideration of national feeling, or the inevitable wants of that new state of society which the revolution has created." Now, if that was written in 1847, and if you have since had a period which convulsed all Europe, full of dynastic changes and fearful revolution, two years afterwards, is it not necessary that we should discard the idea of entering again into negotiations abroad, with a view of maintaining the balance of power as settled by the treaty of Vienna ? (Hear, hear.) We all have our pet projects for interference abroad. One party wishes us to interfere for Poland, another for Hungary, and another for Italy, while some would even have us go to America, and interfere in the terrible struggle now going on there. Now, if we were to take up a foreign policy for the redress of great wrongs, and if I were called upon to say what would be ray pro ject, I should say that Venice has the first claim on this country, (Cheers.) Venice had for a thousand years a glorious existence. She was a commercial nation, with a career somewhat analogous to our own; and if her history were fairly written, and a comparison was made between her and other countries at the time she existed, she cer • tainly had the best title to existence of any country cn the Continent, and especially at our hands. And yet the sign and seal of England is attached to the treaty which assigned Venice to Austria, If there is one country which ,has more claims upon us than another, it is the country to which I have referred, But to undo the wrong we did to Venice we should have to fight against our own engage. ments and our own signature. Now where are we landed ? We have here a country requiring peace. Some people think it i 3 Very degrading and base that an Englishman should speak of his own country as requiring peace, and SP being entitled to enjoy the blessings of peace; and if we allude to our enormous commercial and industrial engage ments as a reason why we should avoid these petty quarrels and disturbances, then we are told we are selfish and gro velling in our politics. But I say we were very wrong to take measures to extend our commerce:unless we v,ere pre pared to use those prudential precautions which were calculated to keep our vast commercial and manufacturing operations from being troubled with unnecessary wars. You have in this country engagements of the most extensive and complicated kin i. You have enlarged your operations to such an extent that you are now actually exporting three times as much as you did 25 years ago. Your commerce and manufactures have grown in a quarter of a century twice as ranch as they grew in a thousand years previously. Is not this a motive why we should take all reasonable pre cautions for avoiding these Continental quarrels ? And, therefore, I say I am justified in laying this statement be fore you, in the hope that, outside of this party conflict, something may come calculated to put us on a better foot ing with regard to our Continental relation, I have taken very little interest in the party question at issue. I think the greater question is the effect which this dilemma is to have on our policy for the future. I maintain that we must have a change in the relations of this country to our Foreign Office and to foreign countries. The present system of dip lomacy has broken down. (Hear, hear:) Our Foreign Office has lost its credit with foreign countries'. (0 ppositioh cheers;) From this time yen cannot apprca'.lh a foreign country on any 'question of foreign politics in which you will not be looked upon with a want of consideration, and indeed with mistrust. (Cheers.) And why? Because foreign countries feel that while they are dealing with the Foreign-office the Foreign-office in fact had not the pnWer, The power is here; and fonefr i n Governments more than suspect that our Foreign Minister is often playing a game with them to snit the policy and the prospects of the Government in this House. (Cheers.) Such being the case, I maintain that it behaves us to adopt a different pb:ie:fr, to let it be known what that polity it, and b make the Government feel it was necessary to act up to our views. I repeat, the present ass • tern cannot go on. It requires a change, not only in the interests of this country, but in the interests of our neigh bours. Nay, it requires a change on far higher grounds, in the interests of peace, civilisation, and humanity. (Loud cheers.) Lord R. CECIL remarked upon the fact that, notwith standing the speech just delivered by Mr. Cobden, it was the intention of the hon. gentleman to give Ministers his material support, in that respect reversing the policy of the Government, who had been lavish of threats and menaces in behalf of Denmark, but when the time arrived for giving her material aid withheld it and deserted their ally. One thing he readily granted. He believed that if Mr. Cobden had been Fore gn Secretary, instead of Earl Russell, this country would have occupied a position proud and noble compared with that it now filled. His complaint of the policy of the Government was that it was founded upon no definite principle, but was oscillating, vague, and fluctu ating. Referring to the recent speech of Lord Palmerston, in which the noble viscoucit, casting aside all his previous threats against Germany and declarations in favour of the independence and integrity of Denmark, said that if Copenhagen were subjected to the horrors of an assault and the King were made prisoner of war, then the Government would "reconsider" what was to be done in the matter, the noble lord observed that a more melancholy exhibition had never been witnessed since the time when ancient Pistol swallowed his leek, buttered with the reflec tion that he did it for revenge. Henceforward we should be unable to persuade foreign powers that we were in ear nest; and this loss of dignity and honour was not a loss of a mere sentiment, but of actual power —a loss of rower which we should have to buy back hereafter at the cost of the blood and treasure of England. With regard to the future, he agreed with General Peel and Mr Cobden, that if did not mean to fight we must not interfere, and that was the only question involved in the censure which the reso lution passed upon the Government. If the house could not save Denmark at least it might rescue this country from the danger of again suffering Eh:oiler dishonour by placing the resolution of Mr Disraeli on its journals. Mr. W. E. FORSTER observed - that Lord Robert had not told the house what should have been the policy of the Government, and what the Opposition would do. Mr. Disraeli had dealt only in vague generalities. He would, he had said, secure the honour of England and the peace of Europe ; hut the house should know by what means, The motion was a vote of censure, and it was necessary that the house should mako up its mind whether it had confidence in the Opposition or not. A vote of censure for the past was a vote of confidence for the future. In the consequences of the treaty of 1852, and in the Schleswig-Holstein question, we had, he thought, received a great lesson,— that it was our business to make the rule of non-intervention the guide of our foreign policy, The time had come to replace that meddling,dishonest sys tem of apparent intervention, but real non-intervention, by an honest, a dignified, and an open system of non-interven tion. Mr. B. JOHNSTONE, after replying to the speeches of the Chanceilor of the Exchequer and the Lord Advocate on the previous evening, complained of the mystery in which the policy of the Government had been enveloped during the late transactions. He did not defend the con duct of the German Powers, he said, which had been marked by overbearing violence; but what the Government ought to have done two years ago was to come to a distinct conclusion as to whether this country should interfere or not. Instead of that they had adopted a mysterious policy, marked by a tissue of blunders, and the house, he thought, was bound to record a solemn protest against the manner in which our foreign policy had been conducted. Lord H. VAiN E ob 3erved that the Government had been blamed for recommending certain cmcessions to be made by Danmark, whereas he was of opinion that those concessions would have placed her in a better position Us could find no proof of any hopes of assistance to Denmark held out from this country. Our office had been that of a mediator, and after the refusal of France, which was not unnatural, all we could do was to remonstrate. He did not blame the Opp sition for their motion, but they had not declared what would be their policy. The Government bad done all thoy were called upon to do, and although they had not been successful, ho did not see that wo had suffered any humili,tion. Mr. LID DELL, in supporting the motion, observed that the great argument of the other side was that the Opposition had no poli y; but it had been asserted by them on another occasion, that it w.ts not the function of an Opposi • Lion to declare their policy. That the policy of the Go vernment was that of interference was, he considered, proved by the papers, and he pointed out the evils which had been THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JULY 6, 1864. caused by foreign interference in the Dano-Germanic quar rel, which, while it irritated Germany, had rendered Den mark obstinate and more determined to resist. Mischief, he said, had resulted from foreign interference in the Con ference, where the question of the frontier would have been settled but for the interference of the neutral Powers. Lord R. MONTAGU maintained that the motion did not recommend a war policy. The policy of the Opposition was one of non-interference ; that of the Government was a policy of meddling with the affairs of other nations, and this was the reason why the name of England was exe crated, as he knew it wa3, abroad. Mr WHALLEY opposed the motion. Mr ROEBUCK—Sir, I will endeavour to recall the house to the subject under discussion. I must say I almost feel a terror in approaching this great subject, because I feel that every word of common sense uttered in this house may find an echo outside, and perhaps lead to terrible consequences. But amid the multitude of words that have been published on this matter I have felt that there was a very small quan tity of truth. The Confe!ence has met together, a great ceremony has been performed, and men appeared to wear a mask—a mask which was so smiling that men have seemed to wear the same over a smile of courtesy, while deadly hatred was at the heart of most of those who met together. Men seem to shrink from touching the real matter in hand. I can understand the motion of the right hon. gentleman. It is a motion directed against the Government. The real meaning of it is, " Get you out, and we will come in." (Hear, hear.) A very natural motion to make. Ido not find fault with it, though I do not think much of the wis dom of the proceeding. :Hear, hear.) But still I ask the house whether the real question has been put before it. The hon. member for Rochdale came very near it, but even he seemed to shrink from the real matter in dispute. We are all wonderfully cautious in speaking ill of our political op ponents, and the real culprits on this occasion seemed to escape animadversion. I thoroughly understand the re sponsibilities of my present position. f have not the respon sibility of an official in the matter, but merely that of a mem ber of the house. I belteva I shall act up to the responsibility best by telling what I believe to be the truth in the matter. What is the debate abort? First and foremost I would state the parties I coaceive to be concerned in the matter. I conceive then to be five in number. First of all, Denmark; next, the people of the small German States; next, the Princes of those States; next, Prussia; next, Austria. I leave out of consideration Holstein, Schleswig, and the Duke of Augustenburg, because I believe they are merely pretexts in the matter. The real question is this—the people of the small States of Germany have gone mad—(cheers)—upon the feeling of nationality; the people of Denmark, with the Ring at their head, have en deavoured to maintain what I will term the doctrine of empire. They have endeavoured to hold together a nation composed of separate peoples. The people of the smaller States of Germany have been impelled by the principle—a very miathievous one—the principle of nationalities, to in vade the Danish kingdom. Under the influence of these cliques, the Princes, fearing that their people might turn against them, have been glad to divert the feelings and wishes of their people into a channel that would affect their own rower. Then comes Prussia, and she has three sepa rate objects in view. First, a wish to obtain territorial aggrandisement-she wishes to get a port in the Baltic ; and next she wishes to divert the consideration of her people from their own internal matters—(cheers) —and thirdly, to fight for what they called, talking Greek, hegemony, that is, be headship of Germany; and these three are the objects of the Prussian Government. On the other hand, Austria, fighting for the headship of Germany, sees Prussia going on her course of political aggrandisement. She feels she cannot allow Prussia to undertake that course without fol lowing, and she enters also into the contest. Now, the character of Prussia is a precious compound—a compound of the pedagogue, the drilasergeant, and the highwayman. (Cheers and laughter.) mat has been her character from the beginning ; they have been robbers from the bee:ninng , and they are only acting ep to their beginning. And they are endeavouring to acquire from weak Denmark that port on the Baltic which shall one dap or other raise up what they call a Gemoan navy. Some months ago, when at Vienna, I taked with an illustrious states• man on this matter of Denmark. I raid to him, "How can your Austrian Miniaers take the lead in this crusade for nationalities ? lint you no consideration of Hungary, of Transylvania, of Ediemia, and Italy 2" He said—" I feel as you, but the Ggmans have gone mad. I will tell a saying we have in Germany. " When a Frenchman goes mad, he becomes mischievous—when a German goes mad, he becomes silly." I lnwed to him and said, " Sir, on this occasion I think the Germans have co habined both charac ters. The real matter is this, that Prussia and Austria and the other States of Germany interfered in the internal matters of an independeet nation. And it is all very well for gentlemen here, who take up what they call the Ger man side of the sluestign to talk about the oppression of Holstein and Schleswig . ; but I want to know if there be a kingdom in Europe that h not composed of different, not to say hostile, nationalities. Look at our own country. (Hear, hear, and oh.) We conquered Wales, and Welshmen hates I England now. (Oh.) It is quite true. (Oh, and laughter ) We conquered Ireland, and Iva have injured Ireland almost from that Lime till 1830. fend let one say, with all courtesy to hon. gentlemen who come from that countil, that Ire land hates us now. And if we were to adopt what the Em peror of the French wants us to adopt, we should be turned out of Ireland to-morrow. What is the rule for ourselves I wartt to be the title of o.hers. When Napoleon interfered with Irish people I want to knoW That words there were that were strong enough :o express our indignation; and did he not say that England oppressed Ireland, and was it not true ? England has conquered Ireland, has b laved ill in Ireland, and has been Oust to Ireland. Ated I want to know, what England weld fay If any' one interfered be tween her and Ireland because of her injustiee. I aeennee for the moment that Denmark was unjust to the Duchies. I assume it, but Ido not lelieve it. Denmark was an inde pendent ration, and 'VI at right had the German people to interfere ? I pu: it broelly. I say that as a great principle to interfere With the internal concerns of a nation is to mi litate against one of tin greatest principles of the peace of this world I say that Germany, headed by Prussia and Austria, has done a gnat deed of wrong to interfere with nationalities, whatever may be the conduct of Denmark to wards any portion of its people. ton talk of nationalities. I ask where is the unity of Germany? I want to know when a nationality was anything bat a principle to separate a people. Look the wild over, and if you find a nationa lity united, I give up tie point. Look at the Gerruens— where is their unity? Every State fighti ng aga i ns t another, and the pretence of a Government b 3 a Di e t. What is the meaning of that? Why do they not go t o war o ver Stras burg ? Because they are afraid. And th en t h ere is their great feeling of Fatherland bursts for t h, and t h ey p o ur over the petty nation of Denmark. Do th ey say an ything to Austria? Do they dare say anythin g to A ustr ia f' Sup posing the Emperor of Austria annihil a t e d t h e co nstitution would the Diet of Frankfort dare say a word of disapproval ? It is a farce—a mischievous farce_beginning in farce an d ending in tragedy. (Cheers,) Thes e are w h a t I call the facts of the case. lam not now pret en d ing to di sc uss what Denmark has done in Schleswig and H olste i n . I believe that what Denmark intended to do, and what every wise nation would attempt to do, was to unite the several parts of her country into one, just as re overrun Scotland —not merely personally, but by the union of the people. And we got Ireland to do the same. Will any inan tell me that the course pursued by Mr Pitt and his Government in the union of Ireland with our people was done with the approbation of the Irish people ? Was there any appear ance of such a thing ? Were the people of Ireland con sulted ? And yet I hear people talk as t if we had not done anything like the people of Denmark which really gave a good constitution to Schleswig, y ou ' sa y that the King of Denmark endeavoured to change the language. If he did, I think he did very wisely, There are silly people who wish to continue the language of Wales. (Oh , and a lau g h.) But any wise man would say, l e t us put out the wonderful light, the Welsh language, if W e can . If a people is to be homogeneous, one great mean s i s to ma ke their language the same. Therefore, Ido not b lame the Government of Denmark for attempting t o spread the Danish language over the whole area of Denmark. So far for the doings of Denmark. Then steps in Germany, ought England t o do ? w h er e she ought not to step in ; and now, I ask We are told we ought not t o interfere. I want to know if, in the history of Europe, f rom th e time that Eu ro p e was a combination of nations - if it has been p ossible fur us to , what isolate ourselves, and say, W e will take no care of what is passing? We are here t o t alk abou t it—l cannot speak of it in that farcical way — we are here to ta lk about it as statesmen ought to do. l am not go i n g to take my states• manship from those w h ole only o bj e ct is merely to make money. Ido not thi n k th at a count i n g-house is the best portico for a st a t esman, If we are t o consider what the communities of Europe are doing, I want to know if there is a more dangerous thin g f or us than to permit a strong nation to interfere with th e i nterna l and domestic affairs or a weak nation, I k now it has been d on e, and done in spite of the good feelin gs o f the people o f England. We have done many silly thi ngs, b u t I do not think we did a silly thing in p revent i ng Spain over running Portugal. I say what has h a p pened in Wa l es m ay happen in Den mark, and the, we h ave a right to eutsPoso that the nation ality of Denmark will not be overrun by the greater nation ality of Germany. And remember this, Denmark is only a part of the :anger nationality of Scandinavia; and again, let me ask, is the multitude of nationalities in Europe, who will say which is to be the predominant ? So much for what I believe was intended to be done by England. But now I come to the manner of the doing. (Hear, hear.)i None of the words I have heard uttered are too strong to express my utter disapprobation of the manner in which our foreign policy has been conducted by Lord Russell. (Opposition cheers.) He seems to me to have mistaken his vocation ; he was intended for a schoolmaster, but fortune made him a , statesman. (filush laughter.) Id is grea t ob j ect seems to have been to write lectu res t o a ll Europe (hear, hear) ; but Europe very properly sa id We don't intend to be lectur e d . (Hear, hear.) I beli eve t h ere i s no ono feels that more than the noble lord at th e h ea d o f t h e Government. [Lord Pal merston expressed his dissent.] I knew the noble lord would shake his head-1 was quite sure of that. (Laughter.) Still it seems to me that Earl Russell is like the Old Man of the Sea upon the noble lord's back. (Renewed laughter.) • I have no doubt myself that if our foreign policy had been conducted according to the wishes of the noble lord we should not be in the position we are in now. (Cheers.) But there are exigencies in all parties; there may be people who are disagreeable—still we can't get rid of them (laughter) ; and I believe that is precisely the present mind of the noble lord. (Renewed laughter.) The noble earl had been sent to another place, where it was supposed he might retire from power, and if that had been the case I am quite sure the noble earl would have found himself a very happy man, and I am equally sure that the country would have been happy too. (Laughter.) That is my opinion of the con duct of Earl Russell. (Hear, hear.) Then we come to the motion of the right hon. gentleman. To support that motion it is not enough, for me to say that I find fault with you (pointing to the Treasury bench;, I must have him. (Hear, hear.) Now I honestly say that, with all the faults of the present Administration, I would rather have them than those who seek to supplant them. (Cheers upon the Ministerial bench.) I don't think that will be satisfactory to gentlemen on this (the Opposition) side ; still such is my feeling, and such is the reason why I intend to vote for the noble lord opposite. (Ministerial cheers.) It is not because I believe his Government is the best that the country can afford, (An hon. member : " Roebuck.") Ido not think that interruption courteous—it is hardly fair, and therefore I pass it by. (A laugh.) Ido not think the Government of the noble lord the best the country could form ; but I think it a better Government than the one that would take its place if this resolution were passed. I find fault with what they have done. I think they have come short of what they might have done in many things, both in their home policy and their foreign policy. But, with all their shortcomings, I prefer them. Sir, there is something more I wish to say on the subject. (Laughter, and ironical cries of " Hear, hear," cn the Opposition benches.) I think I have said enough to make my opinions plain. I don't be lieve I please gentlemen on this side—l don't believe I please gentlemen on the other side—of the house. But, with all that, I feel my country goes with me in what I have uttered. (Hear, hear.) I think many things might have been done which would have prevented bloodshed upon this occasion. I think if the noble lord had the power, as he has the wish—if he had taken a bold stand at first— he might have put an end to the arrogance and injustice of the German Powers. My notion is that if you had told the German people the moment they attacked Denmark they must expect England for a foe—if you had steadfastly acted upon that, and sent your fleet to the Baltic, you would have had no more trouble with Germany. (Cheers.) You may talk about the effect of railroads ; but 1 want to know, is there any people—and more especially the German people—who can maintain themselves without foreign commerce? Oar fleet would have swept from the sea the whole mercantile navy of Germany . With that threat I believe they would have been wise in time, and would have abstained from that injustice which they have now perpetuated, and which they will long deplore. Mr HORSMAN observed that the motion contained two propositions—one, that the policy of the Government had failed; the second, that the failure had been so injurious to our national influence that the Government ought to be blamed. The first was admitted ; the facts, in his opinion, did not justify the second. The House, he contended, had acquiesced in the policy of the Government, it had even directed that policy. He insisted that, according to consti tutional principles, it was the duty of the House to scrutinize our foreign policy as much as a bill upon a domestic subject. By holding their peace the Opposition incurred a complicity in every act of the Government, and a responsibility for the consequences. The policy of the Government was only ministerial, and if the country had been dishonoured it was not by the Ministry, but by Parliament. Aftet alluding to the conduct of the Opposition upon the Polish question, he discussed the doctrine of non-interference in the domestic government and the internal arrangement of other nations, and to this construction of the phrase he gave his full and unqualified assent. But Mr Cobden's definition went a great deal turther,and he (MrHorsman) could not consent to place this country in a state of isolation and seclusion. He then con sidered the position of this country in relation to the Danish euestion, and condemned the policy adopted by the Go. vernment an injudicious and dangerous policy, which had plunged themeinto difficulties. The Treaty of 1852 was a bad measure, but the Government could not have h otn eever, to have proposed to repudiated it. They ought, the contracting Powers to annul it, ant ; substitute a decla ration binding the parties to defend DertmarY. Unfor tunately, they took their stand upon the treaty, and plunged headlong into all the embarrassments of the ques tion ; our diplomacy was unskilful, and a stroke of Lord Russell's pen let loose an army of German filibusters upon Denmark. He pursued the history of these transactions, pointing out, as he proceeded, what he regarded as the errors of our policy, but for which, he thought, the free soil of Denmark would never have been polluted by German troops, Then it was sal t the Conference had been a failure. Did not the Opposition know it would be a failure ? Would it not have been better to have denounced it at the time? But Mr. Disraeli not only did not originate a discussion upon the subject, but he would not allow of a discussion, but threatened to strangle a motion to raise a discussion by " the previous question." The Government, he observed, had made mistakes, but their opponents had endorsed them ; co the parties were pretty much upon an equality. The motion bore upon the face of it two objects —to con demn the Government as much as possible, and to compli• ment their opponents as little as possible. it affirmed no principle, it enunciated no policy. He was afraid the Go vernment had established no claim to confidence ; but for the mistakes of a Government there was always an excuse. The Opposition had, however, done nothing to prevent or remedy these mistakes, but endeavoured to use them as a steppingstone to 'sewer. Public policy did not require that at that critical moment the present Government should be displaced in order to make way for those who had shown more weakness and less courage. Mr. S. FITZGERAL D—Late as the hour is, I trust that the house, after the somewhat personal allusion which the right hon. gentleman has made to me, will permit me to address a few observations. I must confess that among the many remarkable speeches which I have heard the right hon. gentleman make the speech which he has delivered to night has been the most remarkable. (Opposition cheers.) For nearly two hours he, has addressed the house, and I think until the concluding sentence of his speech there must have been members who were perfectly ignorant as to what the vote was which the right hen. gentleman was about to give—(cheers)—because with singular impartiality, he first blamed the Government —he told them that their adminis tration was disastrous, that their conduct had humiliated England, and then he turned round to the Opposition and said " You have no responsibility, but you are just a s b a d, and I have as little confidence in you." But it his speech was singular in this respect I think it w. ,9 somewhat more singular in the very novel theory he has offered to the house as to what in this country should be the conduct of foreign poiilics, because he has told us that in questions of foreign politics the office of Government was merely Minis terial—(Opposition cheers)—until the House of Commons were possessed of the facts with which the Government had to deal. In seeking thus to convert the House of Com mons into a foleign office, in seeking thus to transfer to this house the conduct a foreign affairs, I think the right hon. gentleman has shown (as the hon. and learned member for Sheffield did before him 3 what the effect of such a transfer would be. What, according to' the hon. and learned f the diplomatic gen tleman (Mr. Roebuck) is to b e th e na t ure gentle :. language of this country ? Th e h on . an d l earne ,..!,_ man thought by transferring tht se great questions in tn.. house we should conciliate foreign powers, and best consult the dignity of this country ; and he exemplified the theory by applying to other nations the term of highwaymen and, I think swindlers ; while the right hon. gentleman has said that one party with whom we have to deal were robbers, and the others hypocrites and filibusLrs. The right hon gentle man's theory of the administration of foreign politics is novel and unconstitutional, and I venture to think that the results of such an administration as he looked to see estab lished would be most unsatisfactory, and dangerous to the interests of the country. But before I come to deal with the question more directly before the house, I should like r to put the right hon. gentleman right as to the statement he made in reference to the course pursued by hon. gentle men on this side of the house with ro!orence to the case of Poland last year. in the first place the right hon. gentle r man says the course pursued by the Government was forced upon it by the Opposition. Is that so ? The dates trove that the right hon. gentleman is wrong ; and 1 think the right hon. gentleman, in assuming to be the censor and mentor of the whole House of Commons (laughter and cheers), might as well make himself acquainted with the facts of the case before he offers such statements. (Cheers.) First as to dates. The discussion upon the motion of the hon. member for King's County took place on Feb. 27. Mr. HORSMAN—I said so. Mr. S. FITZGERALD—What was the date of Lord Russell's condemnation of Russia ? The 21st February. (Cheers) What was the date of that letter which has been so much complained of with reference to the conduct of Prussia ? It was the 18th February. What was the date of the despatch of Lord Russell asking for concert and har monious action with Franca ? It was the 27th February, the very date of the debate. (Opposition cbeers,) Now, when the right hon. gentleman again attempts to defend a Government upon the ground that a course of policy has been forced upon it by the Opposition, I hope he will take care to be more correct in his dates. The right hon. gen tleman is equally wrong as to the course pursued by the Opposition. He says that I was one of those who forced upon the Government that course of conduct which was afterwards so disastrous and unsuccessful. I beg the right hon. gentleman's pardon. I certainly spoke—and I Lope I shall never hold my tongue when I think I am called upon to speak in this house —my true and honest senti ments with reference to the case of Poland. I urged then strongly that the house should adopt the motion of my hen. friend the member for King's County, be cause 1 thought it would bo a way of avoiding war, end might prevent France front putting herself at the head of a great European movement in favour of Poland, and that it would lead to diplomatic action in concert with this country and Austria. But granting, then, that that was the position we took, is it because that is what we recom mended to the Govetnment, the Opposition are to be re sponsible for the bungling and incapable manner in which they carried out that policy ? What we find fault with the Government for is this, not that they expressed the honest sentiments of this country in favour of Poland, but that, after inducing France to act with them, they used language more violent than that of France and more violent than that of Austria, (Cheers.) And then we have the an- nouncement by the Foreign Secretary that this violent lan guage was to go for nothing, and that England would never draw the s word for Poland. We do not find fault with the resolution on the part of the noble lord that this country should not draw the sword for Poland ; but what we do find fault with is this—that he should have used language so violent and extravagant, and, having induced his allies to join him, that he should then paralyse - them in the middle of the transaction by the announcement that England would not draw the sword for Poland. I will now pees that by and come to the question before the house. Sir, I must confess that the debate has, in some respects, been an in structive debate. We have often known members denounce a government, and then afterwards to be found with and supporting them. But this is the first time we have been in a debate of this character. We have now been discuss ing this question for two nights, and, with the exception of the noble lord the member for Hastings, although there have been many members who have addressed us on both sides of the house, independently of official members and members of her Majesty's Government, no member has ventured to say one word in defence of the policy of the Government. On every hand there has been a chorus of condemnation, and it seems to me as if hon. members have tried to rival each other as to who could apply the strongest blame and censure to the Government. This we have known often in the case of those who are the regular supporters of Governments, The question is treated by the Government as one of confidence—that is the posi tion in which the Chancellor of the Exchequer has put it, not as a question merely regarding the success of particular negotiations, or regarding the conduct of affairs in particular and difficult circumstances, but as a vote of want of confi dence in their foreign policy. Then what astonishes me is that it should not be those who are the regular supporter, of the Government, but those who call themselves indepen dent members, who often are the first to censure the Go vernment; and who now, when a question is brought for ward involving confidence in the Government,make speeches saying they have not the slightest confidence, that the Go vernment have disgraced and humiliated the country, and brought us to the point of war, and then, headed by the hon. member for Rochdale, notwithstanding all this, give a vote of confidence in the Government. (Cheers.) Well, I see opposite the hon. member for Bridgwater (Mr Kinglake), who assumes also, and justly, I believe, the position of an independent member. The hon. member for Bridgwater blames the resolution of my right hon. friend the member for Bucks as being remarkable for its reservation ; but the amendment of the hon. gentlemen is one of extreme reserve, because it seeks to pass by the whole transactions of the last few months, transactions with respect to which the conduct of the Government is challenged The hon. member for Rochdale says he shall not vote for the motion of my right hon. friend the member for Bucks, because he can adopt the words of the amendment of the hon. member for Bridgwater, and that those words announce peace—an object dear to all of us- But behind us is the member for Warwickshire, and that hon. gentleman says he will vote against the resolution of my right hon. friend—not on the ground of peace, but because the noble lord has left open the door of escape from war. Sir, of all the speeches delivered in this debate none I think has been more remarkable than the speech 01 the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Hear, hear.) I must confess that nine times out of ten when that right hon. gentleman addresses the house he fairly puzzles me. (Laughter.) When the right hon. gentle. man addresses us on commercial subjects all must admit his lucidity; but into other subjects, foreign or domestic, the right hon. gentleman introduces so much subtlety, and draws such fine distinctions, that I hardly know whether he deceives himself by his ingenious fallacies or intends to deceive others. (Cheers.) A remarkable instance of this faculty occurred in the speech of the right hon. gentleman last night ; for, in language more forcible than courteous— (hear, hear)—he took exception to my right hon. friend the member for Bucks, because, as he said, he made quotations which were not fair. (Hear, hear, and counter cheers, and hear from Mr Layard.) The hon. member for Southwark (Mr Layard) endorses that view, and he not only endorses it, but the temper and style of the speech in which it was convoyed. (Cheers.) Then the right hen. gentleman at tempted to explain away the famous words of the noble lord at the head of the Government, which he uttered in reply to a question from me at the end of last July. The right hon. gentleman said that at that time France and Russia were in accord with us, and that if Denmark were attacked she , wele Ll not stand alone, and that the right hon. gentleman meant to 011 Y that France and Russia held the same senti ments with the English Government, Does the hon. mem ber for Southwark, as a candid man—(cheers)—mean to say for a moment that that is the sense in which those words were used ? (Cheers, cejes of " Yes," and counter cheers.) If these words were placed before any number of plain-spoken, plain-thinking Englishmee2, I will undertake to say that they would not interpret then; in the non natural sense. I would much rather believe that they were spoken by the noble lord in that spirit which has elways distinguished him—in a spirit of generosity for the week beaten down by the strong, and that they could only be sub verted by events over which he had no control. The right hon. gentleman accused my right hon. friend of omitting that part of the despatch in which M. Drouyn de Lhu3 s said that in declining the proposal of England no indiffer ence was felt for the cause of Denmark. The right hon. gentleman does not see that that makes the case much stronger against the Government—(hear, hear)—because M. Drouyn de Lhuys said that in declining the proposal England must not think that he disagreed with her, but that he declined because in the case of Poland we had led the Emperor into difficulty incompatible with his position with Europe. I say therefore that my right hon. friend quoted the despatch fairly, and that what he left out would have told with greater force against the Government. (Cheers.) The right hon, gentleman also said that this country went along cordially with the neutral Powers, and held exactly the same position with respect to giving notice to Denmark that she must not expect material assistance; but the despatcn the right hon. gentleman quoted in confir mation did not bear him out in his assertion, because from that despatch of Lord Wodehouse it appeared that France said she would not give material assistance ; but the Eng lish Government said that if Denmark did not follow her advice she should not be assisted. There ale several other points on which the right hon. gentleman micquoted my right hon. friend, but at this hour it would be irksoene were I to go over them. But one I desire to point out. Through out the whole course of his speech the right hon. gentle- , man, though he admitted that the Government had failed, and had given disastrous advice, said the Government were I only partly to blame, as they had acted in common with the other neutral Powers. (Hear, hear.) Was that the case. Was our position towards Denmark the same as that of France or Austria ? Did Prince Gortschakoff or M. Drouyn de Lhuys ever tell Denmark that she would not stand alone? (Hear, hear.) Did they ever make such a premise as that made by Lord Wocfehouse at Copenhagen, and say that probably other countries would interfere. No. During the Conference, though the neutral Powers might assent to the various proposals, it was England who made them, and it is idle to throw the responsibility on the neutral Powers. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman said that the proposal made by Earl Russell at the Conference was in every respect the proposal of the neutral Powers. That was not the ease. Two communications had passed be tween the neutral powers on the subject, but when the line of the Schlei and the Dannewerke was proposed, Russia -1 its assent, and would have preferred the line of the ranee. -ards the second proposal, I do not think twat Eider. As ro b a the statement of the Danish Minister any one who has res., statement of Ea r l R usse ll ma d e p:ocee din gs of the pleni made in his place, and the .. in his place, can look back at the p o t en ti ar ies at the Conference without reeling that a gross breach of faith had been committed, and the Danish pleni potentiaries were brought into a dangerous position. According to the statement of the noble earl, the Danish plenipotentiaries informed him that they were willing to accept the line of the Schlei and the Dannewerke without modification, but that they were not willing to accede to a prolongation of the suspension of hostilities, unless Earl Russell undertook on the part of the English Government that he would not himself propose nor support any other frontier line. How was that engagement evaded P The noble lord says that what he proposed was that somebody else should form that lino. I ask if that is in the spirit of the engagement entered into with the Danish plenipoten tiaries. (Hear, hear.) The Conference broke up. Who was to blame but the German powers who refused to accept the line proposed. The Government wished to be able to say that they could not assist the Danes, owing to their refusal of the line, when the truth was the British Govern ment had pledged themselves not to support any other line. It was not agreed to by Russia, and, therefore, the right hon. gentleman's statement that the other neutral Powers were as much to blame as ourselves, is totally devoid of foundation. (Hear ) The right hon. gentleman has made curious objections to the resolution of my right hon. friend. He calls it unpatriotic, and the moment he said so the gen • tleman on the benches behind him cheered. In the depth of their abasement they seemed glad to find an excuse which would speak to English hearts. (Hear, hear.) I have yet to learn that an assertion in this house that the course of a Minister has lessened our influence can be truly called unpatriotic. In the great and glo rious days of Parliament much stronger expressions were used without challenge. The resolution not only declares that the influence of the country has been lessened ; but that is not the object of the resolution. It calls on Parlia ment to censure and condemn those who had reduced it to such a position. (Cheers.) In my opinion the conduct of those who object to such a resolution ought rather to be considered unpatriotic. (Hear.) The amendment of the hon. member for Bridgwater implies that the house should pass over in silence the conduct of Ministers. (Hear.) When the motion was first brought forward a number of friends on the other side said it would not be carried; but if it was it would not do to go to the country upon it, as it would fix on this side a desire for war, and that they on the other side would get credit for wishing for peace. I assured them that when the discussion came on they would not find it easy to say so. I said it was not true. I also said, if their cry was to be "Palmerston and Peace," that I did not think the noble lord would thank them for coupling his name with that word. (Hear.) I want to know whether you are a peace Government. I know that on several occasions you have been inviting other countries to join you in war. (Cheers and laughter,) Is that a mark of a peace Government ? (Cheers.) In thEcourse of the discussion the Foreign Minis ter had stated that he had renewed the application to the Government of France; and he (Mr. - Fitzgerald) heard the noble lord say that within 24 hours he had received the reasons of the French GovOrnment for not going to war. (Hear.) But more : in the whole of the discussions what had been the excuse of the Govern'me'nt for not going t o war ? Not that they loved peac e , no t th.`tt they had never medi tated war, but that th e y d are d nt;t go to war. (H ear , hear.) They said that th e y h a d t r i e d to induce forei gn Powers to go to war with th em , b u t th a t they would have • gone to war it they could hav e o bt a i ne d it, ipport. (Hear, hear.) Then, were the Governme n t en titl e! .' to call them- Belies a peace Government? C ou ld th ey upon the oppos tion the character of being a war opp os iti o o ? What was the complaint of the last speaker? That th e ye,luld get nothing out of the opposition with regard to their po not that they would have encouraged war. (Hear,) What was there that would justify the imputation on the Cojvcr vative side of the house of being more anxious for war than those who sat on the Ministerial side ? (Hear.) The holt. member for Bradford said he had listened with the greatest: pleasure to the speech of the hon. member for Huntingdon.. and that of the noble lord the member for King's Lynn. But how did the hon. member for Bradford argue? He: said he agreed with every syllable that fell from the noble member for King's Lynn, except one phrase of two words. That was the only reason given by the hon. member for Bradford for fixing on the opposition a war policy. This was not an accurate statement. He had not heard a single member of the house, nor had ho heard a private individual assert that England was bound by treaty to defend Den mark. Therefore, neither did the Government deserve the . character of a peace Government, nor did the opposition deserve the character of,a war opposition. It had been said that the opposition ought to have pointed out a policy. This had been sufficiently answered. It was not the duty of the Government, and it never had been the practice for the opposition to indicate the line of policy they int ended to adopt if they succeeded to power. Weeks or months might elapse before they would be in possession of the informa tion which alone could enable them to form an opinion even of the past policy of the Government; it was, therefore, impossible to indicate what would be the future policy of the new Government. He believed that the opposition bad strictly performed their duty in challenging the verdict of the house on the conduct of the Government, and he be lieved that nine members out of ten cordially agreed in the words of his right hen. friend's resolution. But of this he was sure, that if the hustings were to be appealed to, as was threatened, the constituents would believe that the Opposi tion had performed their duty in challenging the verdict of the House of Commons and asking their answer to the question whether the policy of Ministers had not "lowered the just influence of this country in the counsels of Europe, and thereby diminished the securities of peace." (Cheers.) Mr B. OSBORNE and Mr LAYARD both rose to move the adjournment of the debate. The motion was carried ; and it is understood that Mr Layard has caught the " Speaker's eye," and that he will consequently resume the debate on Thursday. PETTY OFFENCES LAW AMENDMENT - BILL. This bill was read a second time. STREET MUSIC (METROPOLIS) BILL. This bill, as amended, was considered. INDIA STOCKS TRANSFER AMENDMENT BILL. This bill passed through committee, PILOTAGE ORDER CONFIRMATION (No. 2) BILL This bill was read a second time. DRAINAGE AND IMPROVEMENT OF LANDS (IRELAND, BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. DIVORCE AND MATRIMONIAL CAUSES (AMENDMENT) BILL. This bill was also read a third time and passed. JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES (VOTING PAPERS) BILL. This bill passed through committee. LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT (1858) AMENDMENT BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. Mr BERKELEY obtained leave to bring in a bill to alter and amend the Poisoned Grain, &c,, Prohibition Act, 1563. Mr BARING obtained leave to bring in a bill for con tinuing various expiring acts. The house then adjourned. COUNTRY MARKETS. --- LIVERPOOL-TUESDAY. There was a fair attendance of town dealers at market to-day, but not many country millers. Wheat met wit h a good deal of inquiry, chiefly on speculation, but hold ers being extremely firm, rather a limited business was done. Prices may be quoted fully 2d higher than on Tuesday. Oats and oatmeal held for an advance of id per 4511 and 6d per load, but a slow sale. Egyptian beans were scarce, and 3s per qr advance on last Tuesday's prices. Peas also rather dearer. Sack flour in good demand, and French brought 6d to is over last week. Barrel flour the same. In Indian corn there was a fair business passing at im proving values, American bringing 308 6d to 303 9d per 4801 b. SHEFFIELD—TursDAY. --- At our market to-day there was a small supply of wheat and other grain, and the trade was dull, but prices fully as dear. Red wheat, per load of 3 imperial bushels...lss Od to 16s 6d White If ...17s Od to 19s Od New red ..15s Od to 16s Od New white „ I I _ ..16s 6d to 18s 6d II Beans 1, ...14s 6d to 15s 6d Peas, per qr Grindin(' b barley, per qr 29 s Od t o 30 s 04 Malting ditto, „ 32s Od to 35s Od Oats 1) 22s Od. to 26s Od Flour, is 4d to is 8d per 14 lb. MELTON MOWBRAY—TUESDAY, A moderate business was done in English wheat to-day. The following were the currencies :—New white wheat, 44s Od to 48s Od ; new red, 38s Od to 45s per 36 stone ; beam , , 43s to 43s for old ; new sorts, 36s to 39s per 38 st. ; barley, 32s to 35s for malting, and 28s to 30s per qr. for grinding; new oats, 20s to 24s Od per 24 stone; old, 298 • to 295. LEEDS-TUESDAY. There were moderate arrivals of fresh grain this morn ing. We had a fair consumptive demand tor good wheats, at last week's rates. Barley nominal. Oats, beans, anti peas were unaltered. Averages—July 4—Wheat ..41s 10d per qr. —Barley —a Od - - —Beans 36s 8d -- - —Peas .32s 1011 -- - —Oats . .22s 7d BRISTOL -TUESDAY. The attendance of buyers to-day was moderate, hut owing to the splendid weather little business was doing. Foreign wheat, however, being light in stock, maintained lull prices ; while oats, barley, and peas were held also at former rates. GREAT ROBBERY.—Yesterday a great robbery was committed in the premises of Messrs Johnston, the chronometer makers and jewellers, carrying on business. at 54, Threadneedle-street. It seems that one of the clerks, on attempting to enter the office, found that it had b een opened by a side door, that a large sheet of plate -glass had been broken, and that goods, consisting of jewels, ikc., worth £4,000, had been taken away. The police were at once called in, when it was found that a desperate but un successful attempt had been made to force one of Tann'a fireproof safes containing no less than £12,000 worth of jewels and watches. [ArovnivrisExErvr.]--Holloway's Pills—Momentous In. quirp.—Surrounded as we are by exciting causes of disease, iG becomes our duty to seek some means of expelling im purities from the body, or rendering them harmless. Pro fessor Holloway has discovered a medicine capable of effecting this all-important point, and has generously placed it within the reach of the poorest. His pills guard the constituents of the blood, which, when contaminated or destroyed, permit fevers, inflammations, and other mala dies to run riot through and undermine the system, or consign their victims to untimely tombs. In malarious districts and unhealthy towns, these pills, after silently proving themselves the best protectors against fevers, &c., have, within the last few yoars, been adopted by the pro fession and public. Births. CA.STLEROSSE.—On the 3d inst., at 53, Eaton-place, the Viscountess Castlerosse, of a son. CARGILL.—On the 4th inst., the wife of William Walter Cargill, Esq., M.P., prematurely, of a daughter, still born. FIELD.—On the 4th inst., the Lady Georgiana Field, of a son. Marriage& KENT— ARMYTAGE.—On the 39th ult., at the Cathedral, Exeter, by the Rev. Canon Woollcombe, Lieutenant Hunter Kent, R.N., of H.M.S. St. George, Falmouth, youngest son of Captain Henry Kent, R.N., to Annie Force, second daughter of John Carr Armytage, Esq., of Barnsbury, London, and niece of Edwin Force, Esq., of Exeter, solicitor. MARSH—CALDECOL—On the 2d inst., at Clevedon, So merset, Captain E. N. Marsh, H.M.'s Indian Army, to Louisa Sarah Elizabeth, youngest daughter of Major Caldecot, of Holton Hall, Lincolnshire. WATSON—PETERS —On the sth inst., at Saint George's, Esq., of Royal. Exchange, lieranovq a u n a d re' K j il o i n u a r t n h , a t n o ELYWdiaatMB ° . n' Petnberten, elder daughter of the late Thomas Peters,Esq., of the Grange, Kilburn, Middlesex. Deaths. BOWIE.—On the 2d inst., at Bath, 'William Bowie, Esq.) M.D., aged 72. CHRISTIAN.—On the 2d inst., at Folkestone, Francis Christian, of Birmingham, aged 46, FINCII.—On the Ist inst., Miss Susan Finch, of Broom field, Essex. aged 79, HAY.—On the 3d inst., at 4, Lower Belgrave-street, Lon don, Lieut.. General Charles Murray Hay, Colonel of the 91st Regt., aged 62. NAYIIEW.—On the 4th inst,, at Sydney House, Kew• bridge, Pauline, second daughter of Alfred Mayhew, Esq., aged 26. NETTLESHIP.—On the 4th inst., at East Sheen, Surrey, Thomas Nettleship, Esq., aged 57. London; Priraed and Ps•hlshed by WILLIAM ANDRE - NS, o f N o. 112 , Strand, Printer, at Tim Sim Office No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, n the cow, V at 411 aiii , 44: , ;.—I'Veduesclay, July:6,