The Sun. — London, England, 1810-05-26 00:00:00

I V 1 There were near .40 orders on the pa- such causes of complaint were preventid, proper I thought ought to be-restored to them.- They'asised , iheharrears of many years; • and it was well measures would betaken for proceedingagainstthern. ' but for-what had been taken away from themeeand ',civil Chet at most five or six were heard in each Throughout the buShiess it- was, most satisfactory to which they conceived their loyalty and their gene a teen ! The appeals before the House of Lords were to find the _Noble Lord had' taken. special care to ral good conduct gave them a claim. It alioul& be te, so nernerous, that on a fair calculation, it would preserve from injury those individuals whose irate- recollealed,that that of which they complained was Ii ti e Less than eight years to determine them. rests•rnight be endangered by the regulations of the not imposed till long after they had been under a et the comfit -tic-ern-tit of the present Session, the Court, Protestant • Goverhmenr - It. was impolitic to deny . o,itub.:r of thdse appeals were 205. In the first 14 Mr: M.A:Tasreoe appealed to the CandOpratid goOd those rights (they claimed), as we • could have no ` Session - , forty-four new appeals had hwen sense of the R e use, if it was likely he sh'oulehhese 1 safety but- in embodying the whole na ion as one eresesitesf to the House of taxis 5 since that - Period; made his motion had the statement of his Honour- man ;n the mighty cause in which we were .engago eenty tied been presented; so that there weie 269 able Friend been made before. All he had asked. l ed. Without those rights they could not embark. altpe.tiding - before the House of Lords, without and subjecthe e winted, was that the subject should be. as )leartily in the cause as they otherwise would inch! the Writs pf Erna ! Was this a tit situa- fairly taken into consideration, and ptoper measures if the road to preferment and to glory were thrown' the; t„.ir a suitor to be placed in ? In a Criminal Court taken to-remedy the evils of which he complained. 1, open to them. The soldier could not be so animat e...in :.Court of Cdmmon Law, justice was imme- He had no objection under such circumstances to I ed when precluded from rising above a certain rank de:te,bUt in the Court of Chancery, delay had be- Wiihdraw his motion, but he. wished it to be under- in the army, as when it was possible for his prowess - come so ,that no man . beean a suit in it stood, chat he did not withdraw it, from an impres• to raise him to the rank of a General, and enable mitt) the expectation of concluding it in less than ten Mon that that which lie had urged was • itnproper. t him to emulate a Mtn - lborongh's fame,. • Blake and veers.: The Lord Chancellor bad 'other and impor- On the contrary, feeling as he did,. that his argu- -O'Donnell, who had _fought so gloriously , in tlie tent bushoiss to attend to. The Master of the Rolls ments stood on .firm grounds; that they were found- cause of Spain, were Catholics, We were ready to , (to e hom the utmost-credit was dje, for his labori- ed in justice and in 'reason, unless an efficient re- admire their talents and do- justiceto hheir valour. ous- attention to the, duties of Isis high office) had ~ Medy were shortly applied, he would certainly again, -Why then did we shut those out from glory in our quite-enough to do. Constituted as the Court now bring the subjea before the House early in the en- own country of whom we could-not W ttierefore e it was impos4ible that relief could be e suing Session. . press our admiration while they were fighting in granted to the suitors. Superadtled to the common I CATHOLIC CLAIMS. . another ? Why too were Catholics to •be so much businesi of. the Court—to the superintendence or Mr. PARNELL moved that the Order of • the Day sustnieled of being' - attached to . the interests of the affors of _infants, Itinaties; &c. the Lord Chan- . for resuming the .debate on the Catholid" Claims France ? In varions,parta of Europe, Catholics lead, cellor had. tO hear appeals from_ the Commissioners should be read.- . been foUnd - in arms against France e and re- 0 of Bankrupts, a source of business-which had unfor- i Sir W s SCOTT, Complying with the wishes of .his , with as much ardour as could possibly-animate Pro tonately becOme a fertiie'one. Where one day had i constituents, opp.,sed the petitions. The principle testants in the cause. Why then was Catholic va formerly been occupied in • this manner s five days of which they complained had been acted upon in j lour downed to pine unnoticed, unrewarded in our were now set apart for that purpose. After stating the most enlightened times, and had at the most araty, when-no Just grounds existed for beliesing several strong cases, in which to his personal know- prosperous periods been recognised by our Constitu-S r Catholics well affected towards Franee ? He ledge the most injurious delay had been sustained tion. The Right Hon. Gentleman had adMitted would now prOceed to another e,rievance. When by suitors in the Court of Chancery, - and appellants his speech that if a French army, should approach a e Catholic qualified himself fur the Bar, why was he to the House • of Lords, the Hun, Gentlem'an pro- Ireland the danger, in consequence of the Catholics ; there too denied proMotiOn Could a Catholic ceecied to observe ; that, in his, opinion, a division of not having conceded die veto, might be tremendously be dangerous as King's- Coutisel ? cotVd lie be dan the offices, which the Listd Chancellor held might great. The system on which weaated was there- E ger - ous as King's Serteant ? Shrely not. -The Hon. probably afford, some alleviation of the evil.• The fore justified by prudence. : In another part of his * Bart, then proceeded to inquire why cause had office of a• Judge in Bankrupt" cases might possibly speech thellight Hon. Gtrat. had spoken loosely of given for those complaints which -hal come over be separated with advantage from that of the Lord the religious contests which distinguished the -His- from the army „in Sicily ? Why were the Catholic Chancellor. If the emoluments of Lord Chancel- tort' of Ireland. On this ground he. elt a Setuctaece clergymen refused access to , the Catholic soldiers for and S eaker of the House of Lords conjoined t to tread, lest it should leadoo an unpleasant discus- there ? If they were treated thus, What could be , have not :been thought sufficient without the addi- t sion, but he wished to ask if the Right Hon.Geetle- eXpeeled from them but languid compliance and ti,m of those resulting from the situation of Judge_ i man was - prepared to say, that all the calamities obedience?pisive -Give the Catholic the same en on Bankrupt cases, *4 or 50001. - a year might be whiCh had fallen on that ill-fated country were the • couragement, and he will embark in the cause with granted to .supply the deficiency. Some might think results of Protestant:aggression ? Both sides of the the - same ardour as the Protestant. - . But under all that the office e of Speaker of the House of Lords question ought to be well considetec . !; for it was not these discouraging circumstances, they had embark ought to be separated from the rest. He did not fair that all should be forgotten on the one side, and yed heartily in the cause. We had -been obliged to affeet to propose any specific-remedy ; -he had mere- all on . the other be recorded in marble and in brass. e ecknowledee it repeatedly over and over again.--we Iy-thrown out these. epggestions for the consideration The Petitions presented were couched in the same r had -to say, that they deserved well. The system of Parliament, but he deciared.his determination ne. unqualified terms as formerly. There were - no con- !, pursued, seemed to be such as would emanate from ver to abandon the, subject while he had &seat in ditions proposed, no reserves,, no qualifications ex- a desire to prevent, their deserving bettet. This. was that House. He regretted that the business had not pressed. He thought the Right Hon. Gentleman not all s we had gene to such a pitiful length as even fallen into the hands ()bone mote competent to treat ought to have stated to the House what , had so much •to preclude.their becoming Sheriffs or Sub-Sheriffs. it with ability, and concluded by meeing, " That a illumined him on the subje&, as he made qualifies- The Penal Law bore severely, on the Catholics. It Crlmmittee be appointed to inquire into, the arrears tiOUS to which he would not agree before. The 'ar- I was true they lead been in some measure tempered , of causes now remaining for [leering-in the Court of gurnents made use of were nearly the same as those !* by the growing liberality of the Protestants, in Ike- Chancery, and to report the same to the House, advanced when the subjea was brought forward for- land e but he contended, that the Legislature ought with their opinion as, to the best mode of- relieving merly, The - difference between the peesent siltation not to suffer so large a portion of the people to' he the suitors, and that the said - Committee do inspect -of the Pope, and that in w,lech he stood at that time, objeas of toleration, to be so far dependent..on ' the Journals of the House of Lords io.ascertain the 1 was this : he was then the willing slave of Franc e others. They had - the stronger reasons for corn nurilbet of. appeals and writs of error.'" / now he is in the tyrant's grasp.... Under such cir- plaining when it was: remembered what prospeats Sir A., PICOT, though he was fully persuaded that cumstances were they to go into a Committeeon the were held out to them at the 'Wools; The prospeels ' his Honeurahle and Learned-Friend was influenced subjeEt,• first assuming that their prayer was to bp then held out to the Catholics - were-auch as ought only by-motives- of public duty, yet recomireuded granted; and then to consider what securities'should I to have bound .Government to redress their griev-• him to withdraw his motion--a step which would ..be given ? The Right Hon. Gentleman had-pointed ances before this time, almost as mite's as if they not prevent -him from renewing it at arty future pc- to the establiShment of a clOrnestic nomination. He had been compelled ,to do so by a written bond. ritel should, - he find that the evils of which he eons- would have been glad, had he honoured the House Mr. Pdt said at that _time, "We are a divided and • plained -continue to exist, and that no - measures had s o far as to state where it could be found, and-what I distracted people, weakened and torn -by- religious • been adopted to obviate them. Situated as he bad security he had, that the adoption of such a plan (if -t dissensions, which under existing circumstances , 191.1 g been in the Court of Chancery it wets impossible lit could be adopted)' Would give universal content.— must be interminable; so long as - our . councils ate. for him not to do to the Neble and Lord who at , He had favoured them with nothing of that kind, separate, prudence cannot admit that which, - united, present held the Great Seal the justice to which he nor was any thing of that nature to be found but in generosity might concede.", Two years.after that was fully el - aid-A. Ir did not appear to him to be the ideas of the Right, •Hon. Gentleman. He had period, Mr. Pitt,. when le.avin s g-office, hid -stated it possible that any man coulu ever have devoted,him- ; argued in faiour of the veto being conceded . by the to be his opinion, that an extension of the lights of self more completely to the public service than the Catholics, but from this they were expeded to: ; Protestants to Catholics was as innocect andasate s Noble Lord had done during the difficult, arduous, shrink with disgust and horror. 'Domestic nOrniria- .i after the Union, as it would have been dangerous b e .: important, and laeorious , duties which he had been tion had been protested againt. He wished to know fore. It had-been said, why did not the. Catholics - Called upon to discharge. He telt himself the more if there were:any reasons to believe that it iwould now - come forward to make sac:hand such concessions? It at libel ty to offer this ,impartial testimony to the be agreed to, If they refused to - give the Veto, hew was not for them is* do so—•-biat it was_tor us to state merits of this Noble and Learned Lord, as he bed. • Could it be expected they would submit to a'domestic i to them under, What, reettiatons we were willing to. not the honour of eany closer• conneetion with nomination ? There might 'be persons of that com- - afford the privileges they desired, It wets itnpossi him, than that which_ the .business of the - Court. munity willing to aelinit this or that expedient to blo t to-think the saute zeal could : be felt in the collie' necessarily induced. Adverting t o the question ; conciliate matters ; buts those -Gentlemen, though mon cause among men between whom such a chs before the Hoose, he Observed that one very mate- they might be -Gentlenien of great respectability parity of interest existed. That enthusiasm in the rial reason which might have produced an increased ; were. not the guides, the pastors, the lights 'of the cause of his country which is felt by him who shares • delay in the proceeding of the Court of Chancery., church. They were not the organs of the Catholic its privileges, could not be expeCted ftein . men who was a - material alteration that had gradually taken com munity, and he - was satisiled, that whatever felt.they were not complete sharers in them. It was place the form of those prooeediegs. Perhapano ; concessions of• that kind those - individuals 'might ; not in Inman nature. To give all an equal interest time had occurred in which such delays as those make, they would not he implicitly followed by, the in the preservation of the country, its privileges mentioned by his Hon. and Learned Friend did not I !great body of the Catholics. The Hon. MernbErr should be alike open to all, .It had been said cathoa exist. They were frequently attributable to the ; here read sonic extracts from Dr. Milner, from ; lic - Emancipation was not desired by the great body agent of the suitors tither than to the Courts-which I which he inferred, that to ask the Catholics to sub'- •of the Irish people, as the beneficial effeets of it thus unjustly incurred the popular-censure. But • mit to domestic nomination, was in other words to ; could not extend to the lower ceders. He could not however great might be the evil, the mode proposed ask them to cease to be Catholics, and when they better express the sense of the people of Ireland than by his Hons and Learned. Friend oil -not appear to • called upon them to cease to be Catholics without in the words of their hr tition es in which they stated him to be the best calculated to remove it.. These- con ve rsion, what must they think of the individual that of which they complained to be the cause of nerable antiquity of the situation of ,Lord Chan- w h o complied, either as a member of the Boman . daily humiliation. Drawing an impassable line of cellot—the, high importance in the •tate-:—.its close Catholic Church, or as -a man ?If they would sub- , separation, it divided the nation and kept animosity coeneir:tion with the Crown, made it a subjea which , mit to no nomination but that of the• Pope, he alive, while emancipation they regarded as that for those who without meaqing any imputation on his " w i s hed to know how the intercourse could becarried _the absence of which there existed no compepsa- Hon e and Learned Friend, were, perhaps, more ex e ; on. While *the Pope remained in captik ity he could tion. • - perienced than he could possibly be, trembled to only correse6tol with them by perthission of Boone- Lord CASTLEREAGH did not conceive it to be neia touch. He allowed, however, that some remedy ; p ar te, and could any one think that - BuOnaparte cessary for him to state his sentiments on the gene • might, be necessary. He bad no doubt after the no , w ou ld sutler such 'an intercourse to exist under any . ral question.. Could the privileges of Protestants be lice )..yhich the motion of his Hon.- and Learned• ciacums•ances unfavourable to the influence of given to the Catholics with security, it .would greatly Friend occasioped, that the Noble and Learned i France ?- In short, it could noe'be expected, that he '• increase the strength of the Eoipire, but so Con e Lord would himself give to the subject all the at- 'would permit it without that veto -being transferred vinced was he of the. impossibility of so eking, tension which it demanded. He had no doubt, also, I t o him which they refused to the King. It every that in the Irish Parliament, anxious as he was to that it woad excite the attention of the other Mem . - l difficulty, arising from law or religion, could be got : benefit the population of Ireland, - he did not think leers of his Majesty's Government.- If a Legislative over, still would there be reasons for a Protestant, or ` they could with safety be conmattneated to thc , fir, .Foct , ediog consequence be judged nieces- , (as they called - it) - a Non-Catholic Government, to The question was, loOking at the. power of the Ca ri:hy, , sere that no consideration of emolu- refuse t 6 accede to the • Petition. The influence of tholic and-Protestant parties, whether their claims merit would be allowed to stand ini the way of iiny persons in their church was ureater"-than that: of being allowed, the presumable Catholic power which kernedial tne-.!isure. At the present period of the common pastors, in' d Spiritual power, converted into might get into the'system would be sufficient to s e ssion, when every .thing indicated its - approaching a temporal engine, was of sufficient iropprtance to endanger the Protestant Government and establish close, ii would be irne3'raeticable, even Were a Corn- create alarm. He thought their prayer could not : inents ? He could not separate. the Catholics from ntittee appointed ) that. it could make any progress he granted on the security proposed by the Right -other dissenters. He did not reflect on their loyalty, tete di to the public. 'But, he conceived, that the Hon. Gentleman, as•on such security no Non-•Ca- but it was impossible to suppose that a dissenter, snteeet ought in any case to be left to the delibera= th o lic Government cotild rely for the safety of its' -could be as 'much attached to the Protestant Church (i o n of du .'e persons whoseauthoeityand experience civil and religious establishments. ' as one of the same litany. It was, therefore, to be' cpiailfied Lein most eminently to invessleate it as . Sir J. NEWPORT said, the claim of the Catholics considered whether or not the Church was suffici- , deserved. repeated his recroinnend7ation to -had been for e considerable time evaded, through ' - ently strong to contend , not only with the Catholic, - ' his Honourable and. Learned Friend to withdraw scruples arising IroM the Coronation Oath, 'which but also with the Protestant Dissenters, ,His feeling, his : motion. - . had at length been abandoned, or at least suffered was, if ever. the Catholics could - .reconcile _them The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought ,to sink for st time into oblivion. The ground on selves to give the pledge required of them a great ithutit going into any great detail on the subject; which they had opposed the wishes of the Catholics advantage would thence be to the. State. 'lt it lutist be obvious to every one t ha: therewere great was:from the construalion of the Coronation Oath, was his opinion at the Uoion, that those. privileges a; reers in the Court' of Charicery.. This cirourn- f being _found perfOtly untenable they had chosen ' shbuld be given to the Catholics if they could with stailtte wits felt by no one more than by the Noble • another, and nOW objeeled to going into a Corn- security / but, never as a simple concession. The Lord who had.been mentioned, If would tie any • mince on the subject. And, why ?—because it 'was Right Hon. Baronet in quoting Air.Plit's peecti - on satisfactiOn to the Hon. Genfleman;he could inform said, that that suggested by his Right Hon. Friend that Occasion,. had passed over thestnest remarkable hell that time sobjed had been taken into serious eon- I was unattainablebecause what he , wished for expression. He never-pledged Government- to fol seise athin. There appealed to be no way of remeilyi»g could not be attained they refused to go -este a. low any particular lioe of conduct. Kis words the evil complained ore but by brin gi n g th e su b je ct C om mitt e e ts) considered they c rollafford the. suf.- were, ",Whatever coursorney beetufsued, the 'Mien - befere the lecase, and !ctn.) those with weom the fering Catholics redress by any other means. They : will proVe a blessing to sll parties, and the _lmperial evil originated, know that unless the recurrence of had stated, their, claims to those rights which they Legislature will be, in a condition 'hi which they may • , . grant otrecuse with great safety." Speaking thl-l! , he pledgqd Government to ad6pt no spec' ll ' measure, the course to be pursues! vas art ,after ■ consideration. The Catholic'hierare,v y had - mote 11) fluence than any other di,setili n g hi e rarchy. It onght to he separated fr,orn =f - prei2n ifillgence; and never. conpected : _wish..Government at. home.--As long as Ireland was a Catholic conntiy i. . iz would, vindicate the'rights.of its clergy a aiiist the - See c" Rove. The countries which-werq trw bigotted 143 , the Catholic faith' were always alarmed at thej - ornitr-- 1 • ofiantpor.ity in ,Spain they went so 'far in precaution as to allow no intercourse' with the See of -Route,. nor were they subject even Ile its controul en. inspec t Lion. It, Austria every thing was tinder the; ten': poral authority. In France, the Papal -power ha° no mare to do with the appointment of its Bisbee*. than it has to do with the'Protestant clergy here. This latter principle was not limited to Catholi c countries; in Prussia and Russia the Bishops Were always apppinted by the Monarchs.- It cannot be stated, from the constant practice of the Catholic Church, thareuch controul can be negatived. . He apprehended that- the , Catholics, le the present case , pressed their claims on the Legislature 'in their proper situations. The Catholic Church had e hithert ° gone on withont any sacrifice of its doctrine. In 1799, Lord Cornwallis commeniceted the plan G -0 " vernmcnt had formed with respect to th e Carbolic Bishops; the arrangement stood on the differeo t grounds of the political part of the question. T 4 6,, Hoese -was aware, that ..all. those- Who disappre , e' 'this plan, looked to that only which . would pLic' the Clergy,in a situation beyond- all competition; they. were certainly in a ',state of abject, poverfle. yet . they would not give way to the feelings 01 the people.. He. was convinced they were ca pable of diScharging the highest services, and 1147 thought their arrangement veoeld be a measure cal - • , culated to end the differenees of thee 'country. 14e thought it would be injurious to the Crown to Ratite a direei influence over their clergy; if'it even had, 4 _ was impossible to doubt, but from the appearance ' of circumstances alone,. it would be constantly la id ' I open to unjust insinuations. 'One _part of the a t ; erangement suggested by Government was confine LL simply to the ueceseity of being informed who C lc titular Bishop was to be, -that it might, have it in it s ' power to make any, reasonable objeaion. .He coo' ceived it would powerfully' satisfy the feelings bol l ' of the 'State ind 'of the Country, .if Ireland kn ee that its Bishops received 'the sanction of. the Prote'" taut Government.. On that t;rinciple there coeld ue • no - objection to its claims. He assured the Hotls° that it was-not the intentioa - of the Clergy to 1 1 before the Government:" sin this measure; they not appear at all jealous of the power of the Statei nor considerit to be inconsistent' with the tenets of their Church. - . This circumstance ..,was but a 51113 a branch of the intended system ; the detail would nee be entered into until it had been wholly approved h 4 beethe Government, and by his Majesty, and broog" • forward in its proper shape. Whatever . cernni lie u ni ; - cation there might be with the See of Rol , should be made with the kem.vledee'of doveitirneo li and-passed under its eye, in 'cadet that evtrY per attempt might he prevented., The proyisioe the arrangement- -were not Dew, or foreign, --or :in': - • consistent; Other set-Is-had beeil,.6milarly endow ° in Ireland the dissenters: had received endot.tere nt ! which tended to the increase of thet.bodye ever, he del. not quite approve. of -the rneasor'; -=-The ,tirrangement intended' . was a siw ila , nature to that mecle:With: • respeeA to the d .I ' • nrane-CeeholiceOlergyeof Scotland,- which - exte r. . ed to 'the endowment of sChOols, and for evi''' ; `l the _See of Itonie 'expressed .g-teat gratitude alit apprqbation. The Pope of that ? . day . was e t jealous knew that - a -great part of the ritual was neeessetily interwoven with the T" tli a ; poral Government.: TheCeitholice'of Irelandei re present in 6 greater dependence on the . See of than any other Catholic conrstry: . The H o nour'w, ee Baronet (Sir Hipneslq) stated that all il a c land, except six diOceses; received the - CuotwiLe . Trent... - He understood there were.only two , ev0 . L'" 0 ..., did not; in Mei, the whole country considero -Church zeverered . by the,Coencil of Trent e a COce cil, driven thither by the Temporal poeer,.in eo n ,' j quence .encrOachmentse and reludently aoce ue e e to by the .Pope. All its ortangernenis aegeoel )t . e e the authority of the See of Borne; 'it was conte o '. - ‘ ,. of Iteliah Bishops, and ended without ac.complishinovc its purpOses, with a. dire d reservation, howeYere et, all the tights of the See'of Rome.. This Colu'i t was never recognised by the Gellican -Chureb.; never received itetenets, as they tended to loP er, . its liberties.--The Catholics of Ireland, • hoe e' re • consider its regulations as a code. He was avi' .(l -_, of the notion; that great mischiefs - would arise fr episcopacy existing-among the Catholics of Irel o o ,, He thought it would Make tie people more i ol ' ll. , cent, and less de:rime - teal ,io the Protestant Chu rc e j If there is a great body of Catholic interestet gr4 e : question is how it can be governed lei:lt serety , did not wish that it should exist at 'all; a, e v ; danger arises from dissenting interests; if great object. i 3 to separate it from fie eign ate .-He did not wish that the na me of t he Cathdlit', should class•witle the E,tatilished - Church. pacy, he thought; might as well exist tee lie Churchot Ireland as in the Presbyter . land. Having thus far entered iree wished n:ev to make. a few ob eere e;.eee; thl i • degree of undees•eneling there wes respeiling . Union, and What degtetie of 'eipkaation out. H- did .not wish that Ireland should have '‘ impreSeio e Of being: ueleitly disappointment; he with. -If vi cr e . had been. a real di s appOinent; he did nor, d e e r serVethen'acneerf Statesman 61- an : he : nest k)- „ i the time of the Union - there . was no' promise nd to the,Cat holies beyond the, claims. already He; Mr: Piit, and Lord' Cornwallis, hada stroo u it , / e sire that - what-was Or might be done; should ,ce d . seem to grow from arty previous engagement. .". ve did not.noW mean that "there. was nothing 19 g; expedation on 'the contrary, he apprehended impressions might have been crested iron o' c l e neous circumstances lyrt . positively not-frotte prbinise., As - far as: 1,14 and - Mr. Pitt's laegtv e , went, it 3 s ns distinf3l averse Rea priimise, -only .firsity, that.tneasures might aftereeirds from the Legislature ; if anv el the leading C u. '., lies had it ile . hie power to prove this :itte:iient -tat : ; j he would ,d 0 huff agreat layout - bv. reenteg If any part of the Catholics 'drew a fevourable peel from any, of the diecessions on -the there were tnany" others who did the reverw* f~ 1 C ~, ,