The Sun. — London, England, 1838-06-27 00:00:00

to the actual state of Courtenay's mind.—(Lord J. Russell —' No.") These were shortly the circumstances of the case. It was known that shortly after the election for Cornwall the Noble Lord was visited by Thom and his wife, at his seat in Devonshire. Its was curious to know bnder what circumstances the introduction took place. He was sure the House would give him credit for sincerity when be stated that he did not bring this matter forward from party motives.—(" Oh.") He believed that the Noble Lord wished himself for the Committee, which Would enable him to explain the part he had taken, and out of which he (Sir E. Knatchbull) sincerely hoped he would be able to come with credit; although he must say that, viewing all the facts, he did not think the Noble Lord had exercised a very sound discretion in the un fortunate affair. He concluded by moving for the appointment of the Select Committee. Lord J. RUSSELL felt that the melancholy event which had given rise to this motion was the most calamitous circumstance which had Occurred whilst he had held the seals of office; for he could not help feeling that all the bloodshed caused by this man had resulted from the fact of his unfortunate liberation by himself (Lord John 'tinsel].) It Was, lie assured the House, a case which had occasioned him more pain than any other with which he had to deal with during the whole course of his official life.—(Cheers.) However, as to his Right Hou. Friends behind and beside him, they had nothing to fear from the inquiry.— (Hear, hear, hear.) The Act of the 9th of Geo. IV., chap. 40, contains various provisions concerning the treatment of lunatics, and ' , specially provides, in the case of pauper lunatics, that a justice of the Peace may, by his warrant, commit him to the county lunatic asylum, and that the visiting justices may,at any time,on full conviction of his restora tion to sanity, undertake to deliver such person to his relatives or friends Unconditionally, that he may no longer be chargeable to the parish. In the 44th sect., where it is stated that paupers who are considered too delve. rolls to be permitted to go abroad shall be sent to the county lunatic Asylum, there is a condition added, not imperatively, but as an alterna tive, " provided always that nothing herein contained shall prevent such relative or friend from taking such insane person under his protection, and giving security for his safe keeping." The 56th section, speaking of criminal lunatics, provides " that such person shall remain in confine °sent after the completion of his sentence, till it shall be notified to the Secretary of State that he has become of sound mind." He had no hesi tation in admitting that there was no mention in this section respecting ally power given to the Justices or the Secretary of State to discharge from confinement any criminal lunatic ; but it appeared to him obvious that the power was already in the Crown, and for that reason, doubtless, the Act did not think it necessary to say anything on that head. To suppose that the Crown had no power to liberate a person under such circumstances would involve the inconsistency—indeed the glaring absurdity—that although the Crown might extend an nnconditional pardon to the greatest criminal, who had corn rnittea the crime for which he was sentenced in a sound state of mind, yet that it had no power to liberate a prisoner who had been guilty of the most trifling offence committed when he was in a state of /unacy.._(licar, hear.) He did not think the Honourable Gentleman contemplated making the exercise of this power a part of his charge, 5 ° he would not dwell further on it. Taking this for granted, and pro ceeding on this fair constitutional analogy—supposing that this person Was a lunatic—there was nothing in the Act that should prevent him (Lord John Russell) from giving him up to his friends. It was ob jected that he was a criminal ; but he would ask of w hat kind ? If he had been guilty of any particular violence—if he had shot or stabbed any person, or had shown any intention of so doing—it might be ne cessary to hold him in durance after the period of his confinement was ended, But the case was otherwise. His crime was perjury—one Which a person of unsound mind would be very apt to commit, yet not indicative of any especial malice to his fellow.creatures, or calling for any particular continuation of measures of personal coer cion.--(Hear, hear, hear.) Had he been of the dangerous class Of criminals he might have either been sent abroad, or if his case was one characterized by alternations of health and illness—for instance hts—lie might have been confined at home for a specified time, and eventually, if circumstances permitted, recommended to mercy. There Were two kinds of treatment in this latter case, according to the classes of criminality, and according to which he would either be kept at hard labour in the hulks for three years, or be kept in solitary confinement for two years in the Penitentiary, and subsequently receive a free pardon. Courtenay had, however, already been kept four years in the Lunatic Asylum ; so that, viewing him as a criminal, he had already incurred greater punishment than an ordinary criminal would have been subjected I s. He wished to show by analogy where the letter of the law was silent that there was no consistency in keeping lunatic criminals always in con 4nernent—(Hear, hear, hear) —although he had been habitually most cautious in consenting to the liberation of individuals who aught, from the nature of their offences, be dangerous to the peace of society.— (Hear, hear, hear.) He would read a letter from Lord Chief J ustice Denman, which would practically illustrate his views on the S ubject. His Lordship wrote, " The inclosed petition is worthy of your attention, relating to a person who has remained in confinement after his cure in the lunatic asylum," and stating further the facts of the c ase and his views thereupon. He (Lord J. Russell) replied that he Limit confess he felt considerable difficulty in acceding to such all appli cation, for though the person in confinement had not lately committed 5 , 0 3' act of violence, st ill it was p robable his disease might return, and lie might again inflict serious personal injuries. He (Lord J. Russell) felt much difficulty in letting him out on the public. He intreated Lone Denman to let him know if there were any law respecting lu rletics who had committed violence against any one—for instance, t he crime of murder, of which the individual in question had been guilty ; for, if not, lie felt that the law required to be amended 14 this respect. The Honourable Gentleman was right in stating that the parents of this person had seen him (Lord John Russell) llt Endsleigh, in August last year. Perhaps the Honourable Gen. 4:man would have better followed up the spirit of his original deeimation of his wish to keep the question unconnected with party if lee had not touched on that subject, or indulged in the inference he drew from the circumstance. The only introduction he had was the information that they were country people who wished to see him about b usiness. Had he, at first, known that it respected a criminal case, Which was generally exceedingly disagreeable, and unavailing business, f ie would not, perhaps, have seen them at all. He recollected that they were respectable -inking people—that they stated to him their great distress of mind under the continued confinement of their son, who was admitted by the persons in charge of the Lunatic Asylum to be no l onger dangerous. He (Lord J. Russell) had told them in reply the difficulty he felt in interfering in such a case—that some people ao afflicted were liable to lapses and repeated attacks, which re luired constant attention. They assured him that they and their 'en had sufficient property to enable them to provide and pay • t° r proper pen sons to take care of him continually, and that it * ould confer the greatest happiness on them to be permitted l° undertake that charge. The re must have been some letter Ore.e°time nun i ca tion on the subject subsequen tl y between him and his i Right Hon Friend beside him, for he visited him (Lord John Russell) at 'the tirne.._(Hear.) In consequence, the visiting justices sent him ante- kcal certificate from the hospital, stating that Courtenay was of unsound isnl—that he fancied himself a Knight of Malta, and heir of Powder ualn Castle. The certificate did not state that he was likely to be clan -I°,ou,' to society, but he (Lord John Russell) asked if the visiting Ma_ Castrate, had thought that likely whether they would not have said so ? `-(Hear,] The Hon. Gentleman appeared to think that Magistrates had an indisposseion to give a Secretary of State correct information, unless • ' le were of their own way of thinking. Sir E. KNATCHBULL (as we understood) said across the table, a roidst loud laughter—The visiting Magistrates are Liberals. Lord J. RUSSELL continued —The conduct of the father certainly Was very extraordinary, for altho u g h he accepted the letter written b iul to take care of his son, instead of keeping him under his own eye, O r providing a proper keeper for him as he had promised, he gave him UP to a person of the name of Francis, who was a friend of Courtenay, o, ld allowed him to do and go where he liked. The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the election of the county of Cornwall. He (Lord John 'Russell) knew nothing of the particulars or personal politics of that .'ection. But his Hon. Friend could explain for himself. He had no t enversation whatever with him on the subject till about a week ago, Wlesn he told him that he saw a letter in the Standard, asserting that the 4 fhor of Courtenay had voted for hips; but his lion. Friend (sitting then t tx th,e seat beside him) replied that he really know nothing about it, but '''ould.go and inquire into the facts. If his Hon. Friend opposite had W ished s to keep clear of party feelings he surely would not have accepted w ith s u ch credulity accusations against h onourable men.— (Hear, hear.) 44, own cos duct might not have been in accordance with the exercise °r esound dis cretion, but anything less connected with politics or the th e of the ,eounty of Cornwal l he never knew of.—(Cheers) As to : 5 proceedings of the unfortunat e individual since his liberation he ha d had no information except from the newspapersnd he could not h ave believed or imagieed be forehand that any p r erso, and could have been fo und in England so utter ignorant as to have believed in such all tuelities—as to have given credence to such a person.—(Hear, hear,) `l°Wever, it should be stated that a similar discretion had been exer. ea sed by Secretaries on State on several occasions. Lord Sidmouth had n '' ° " o so in the case of S::eplien Warden, a lunatic who was committed "P . an assault. Another lunatic (Wm. Williams), who had been con. — a j'ed for murder in 1812, was found insane, and was discharged and wen over to the guardians of his parish for safe keeping. There were t hat other similar cases. He would wish the House to consider sab le in this case thought murder may have taken place he was not respon. Cave s for it. —(Hear.) It had been said that he had, in some cases, Vert way - to private applications ; but really, in many instances, he had t a, -(i dght it better to refuse such applications than to put the public peace d anger ,by any liberations which were not strictly prudent to be I .4, ted, as in the case already ment ioned, in reference to the corres. 1 '" t Ulenee with the Chief Justice of th e Q ueen's Bench. In others, as in the case of the woman who had killed her o wn child—an act which had a es Ulted, perhaps, from the deri l i um of fever—another murder might t rat ibly be the result of her liberation. All he could sa y was that he felt Le responsible ite having to decide on such cases—(Hear) —and that ne steould not resist tne motion for the Committee. Sirs RuesEY VIVIAN w as g lad to have an o p portunity of refuting th e 7 ,ealummes that had b een uttered against him. He had seen in the :rtes newspaper a statem ent that the vote of the father in his favour iTthe c orn wall election was the cause of the bloodshed by the son in comity of Kent. A calumny more gross, or a charge more false, -4 ' Lever uttered against an y man en earth.—(Hear, hear.) A Noble Lu ke, in another pla ce, had indulged in the most unwarrantable as sertions. -(Order.) The Hon. G entleman stated that lie had informa tion in his possession — would h e have the candour to say' if he had re. e . k `ved an anonymous letter on the sub j ect ? (Hear.) In the course a L I his life he haul received several anonymous letters, and had always but them into the fire, or handed them to the persons they accused.— (Ch eers.) The Right Hon. Baronet hod come and asked a favour of l 'irn in his office,—(Non Ile says he has not — Si r H. KNATCHBU LL had not the slightest idea of what he meant. ''' air H. VIVIAN said that he came and asked him to get his brother a r 4 et in the Horse Artillery.—(Cheers.) Did he (Sir H. Vivian) then 4 'sUlt ,him by asking him in return to vote for them at that side of the ali lane of —(Cheers.) What other grounds, the n, had he to impute such oe ,conduct to him ?—(Loud cheers.) It was not necessary for 1 141 to proesere votes by such means. He did not even know Thom, nor ee e ever seen bm but once, when he asked permission to write to - " a lo i u n favour of hiss son. The first application made to him on the ' 4 biect w as by Ids Honourable Fr iend behind him, who wrote a let ter i to him, s tating that the lunatic had been his confidential te kr k, and giving a high character of him. That letter was dated e loth of August, arid to show how little this transaction could ha ve had to do with the election, he (Sir H. Vivia n ) was returned to 1, , ar liaMent on the Bth of August. But wa s there anything extraordi arY in liberating a person who had been convicted and was a lunatic ? o-4 looking over time returns of different counties, he foun d that there , scarcely a county in England in which this had not been done. In s e " 0, eighteen persons h ad been discharged under such circ umstances Cheshire; thirty-six had been discharged in Durham ; and in his Z w u county, Cornwall, eight had been discharged. It was a principle of rnritish law that an insane person could not commit a crime ; and, there been found guilty. If inquiry was to take place, the fuller it was the hotter sa ti sf i e d h e s h ou ld be; and if the question were pur sued to a ' a vasion, he should vote in favour of it. t .4lr. TURNER had known Thom for many years and had known him a most inoffensive man, and an excellent character until he loot "', reason. He had been the Clerk of a Solicitor at Truro, and had af terwards be e n employed most confidentially by him (Mr. Turner), and entr usted with large amounts of prop ert y , Ile left his home in 1830, a soon after wrote a very sensible and affectionate letter to his wife ; :r . Was it until the election 0f1539. that the unfortunate man was ag ain 1, rd of a s a c a ndidate for Canterbury, where lie got three hundred arid , it 4 4,11 votes. Was it not a wonder that such things could occur at Call. ta - e bu ry ? Ile hoped they could not happen in any other part of couetry,—(A laugh.) He wished the parties in Kent who lut att ! excited this unhappy man could w i p e out the stain that the dlnr. Francis, he thought, was much to blame for Part lie had taken in the affair. He could show by as a„eeri ther taken of letters whic the h lie held man. in h llere is hand the H that on. Member great pains read had extracts to excite poor from several letters' addressed to Thom while be was in prison ti nder sentence for perjury, ,styling him Sir William Courtenay. One tr oll was . h er a.t viass Ord, as we ereleretoca, requesting Sir William to scud els hair brush and comb iesteed pa' a brush and comb which she sent him. Another letter begged his acceptance of a pie, a pudding, &c., sent by the writer.) These letters were not only addressed to Sir W. Courtenay, but they also styled him Knight of Malta. These were the things that excited the unhappy man. He (Mr. Turner) could prove, if the House would afford him time, that Thom was not liberated by the interference of the Noble Lord at the head of the Home Depart ment, but, by the interference of two magistrates of the county of Kent. (A laugh.) Gentlemen might laugh on the other side of the House, but before he was done they would look more demure than they ever did in that House. (A laugh.) The Hon. Member then went into a history of his own connection with Thom, and referred to a variety of documents. The Hon. Member also read a letter showing that two of the visiting ma gistrates of the county had attended at the asylum and sanctioned the release of Thom from his confinement there. Sir R. PEEL—Was that after the warrant of free pardon was issued ? _ _ Mr. TURNER—Yes.--C" Hear," and a laugh.) But what wa, the warrant of that free pardon ? It was conditional, and was to the effect that he should not be released unless his father or some of his family attended and signed the release.—(Hear, hear.) They did not attend, and yet the two Magistrates consented to his release, which fact clearly showed that he. could not be considered of un sound mind at that time. Mr. HANI)LEY had great cause to regret the disaster, as relatives who were near and dear to him had narrowly escaped with their lives in taking that course which others had been backward in taking on the occasion; but he had not found that the exclamation in every man's mouth was one of astonishment that this unfortunate individual should have been at large, but one of extraordinary surprise that there should be found in Kent—in any county of civilised England—men so ignorant and uneducated as to be deluded in the manner the followers of this man had shown themselves.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then con cluded by moving that, in case a Committee should be appointed to inquire into the circumstances connected with the discharge of J. N. Thom from the Lunatic Asylum, the following words be added by way of amendment—" And into the state of education of the lower orders of the eastern division of the county of Kent, previously to the late unfortunate transaction."—(Hear.) Lord A. CONYNGH A M might be allowed to say that those who had voted for this man at the time he svi.s a candidate for Canterbury were not confined to the lower classes, but were many of them persons of sub stance and respectability.—(Hear.) Viscount HO WICK rose to express a hope that his Hon. Friend be. hind him (Mr. Handley) would not press the amendment which he had just proposed, as, although he concurred in many of the observations which had fallen from the Honourable Gentleman, it was impossible that Isis amendment could answer the great object of the motion, namely, the clearing up of these unfortunate occurrences. —(Hear, hear.) But he had also risen to entreat the House to suspend, until to..morrow, or a day or two after, the nomination of this Committee— (Hear, hear)—and on this ground—that after the invidious obser vations contained in the speech of the Right Honourable Baronet opposite)—Hear, hear, hear)—and, in his opinion, the mild and tempe rate speech- of the Right Hon. and Gallant Officer (Sir H. Vivian) the Committee to be appointed ought to be one composed of Members of high station in that House, and in whose character and judgment even their ads ersaries might place irm.licit confidence. He much regretted the manner in which the Right Hon. Baronet had thought proper to move for the appointment of this Committee; but as he (Lord Howick) had communicated with the Right Hon. Gentleman on the subject of the names of those to serve on it without any benficial rend', the only course left open to him to pursue was to place another list of ❑ames on the table of the House, and to call upon the Hon. Member to postpone the nomination of the Committee for a day or two. This Committee would have to investigate a charge made against his Right Hon. and Gallant Friend of no ordinary nature, and accusing him of guilt no less than this, viz., of having prostituted his high powers and station to the meanest and dirtiest of all party purposes.— (Hear, hear.) He wished to throw no imputation on the character of any of those Hon. Gentlemen opposite whose names he proposed to omit front the list, or to treat any one with disrespect ; but he would say that one of those Hon. Gentlemen whose names he proposed to leave out did appear to him to have been extraordinarily excited upon this ques tion, namely, the Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury (Mr. Praed) —(Hear)—whom he had observed cheering the Right Hun. Baronet during the whole of his speech.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial side, answered by ironical cheers from the Opposition.) The Noble Lord then read the list of the Committee, as proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet, which was as follows :—Sir E. Knatchbull, the Earl of Lincoln, Mr. Fox Maule, the Marquis of Chandos, Viscount Howick, Mr. Praed, Mr. Shaw Lefevre, Mr. Darby, Mr. Harvey, Lord Hotham, Mr. Langdale, Sir H. Hardinge, the Solicitor-General, Mr. Plutiptre, and Mr. Pendarves. The Noble Lord then named his own list, which omitted the names of the Earl of Lincoln, the Marquis of Chandos, Mr. Praed, and Mr. Darby ; and proposed in their places those of Sir Robert Peel, Sir R. Inglis, Sir T. D. Acland, and Mr. R. Clive, and hoped that the House would concur with him in thinking that these lists ought to be ordered to be printed with the votes, and taken into consi. deration to.morrow or some future day.—(Hear.) Mr. PRAED protested against the gross personal affront which he had received from the Noble Lord on the opposite side of the House— (Cheers)—and, considering himself in the light of a juror challenged, he now turned to the Right Honourable Baronet the Member for Tam worth to say to him that, having attended in his place as one of the Gentlemen named in the list of the Right Honourable Baronet (Sir E. Knatchbull) and with the intention of doing his duty on the Com mittee should Isis motion be carried, he must now request him to with draw his name from the list.—(Loud cheers.) The Marquis of CHANDOS, after the aspersion thrown upon his character, must request his Right Honourable Friend to withdraw his name from the list, as he would never consent to allow the Noble Lord, or any other man, to doubt his unfettered ability to give an honest ver dict as an independent man.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. DARBY, in the midst of the cheers which followed the preceding observations, made a similar request and declaration.—(Cheers.) Viscount HO WICK had not intended to cast the slightest imputation or disrespect on any Honourable Member, and he appealed to Honour. able Gentlemen if those were not the ♦ery expressions he had made use of ?—(Hear, hear.) He did think there were Honourable Gentlemen in that House of superior qualifications to some of those who had been named ; and, with reference to the personal affront of which the Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury spoke, he could only say that he recant to convey no such thing—(Hear, hear, hear)—and that he rather thought that the affront had proceeded from the other side of the House, since the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir E. Knatchbull) had refused to re tain any of the names of Hon. Gentlemen on that (the opposite) side which he (Lord Howick) had proposed as the fittest to serve on this Committee. Sir R. PEEL rose and said—As a proof, Sir, of the fair inten tions of my Right Honourable Friend (Sir E. Kuatchbull), and sup. posing that my qualifications even were such as the Noble Lord oppo. site has stated, I am bound to state that my Right Honourable Friend some time ago asked me whether I had any objection to be placed on this Committee ; and that I then expressed to him my unwillingness and disinclination to have my name inserted in the list.—(Hear, hear, hear.) I wished, Sir, to guard myself against any imputation that might be cast upon the Committee in consequence of my name ap pearing as a member of it, and I adopted this course from a considera tion of the respective positions of myself and the Noble Lord oppo site, from the consideration that I constantly came in collision with the Noble Lord. When my Right Honourable Friend first spoke to me relative to his motion, I expressly stated that my advice was that he should be cautious not to appoint a Com mittee with power to express any opinion one way or the other on the subject, but only to ascertain the facts with a view to their being laid without observation before the House; that the matter was too im portant for the members of a Committee to take upon themselves the eof pronouncing a verdict upon it ; and that the fairer way I thought would be to appoint a Committee simply to inquire into the responsibility facts, anti then to present the evidence to the House, but with a total abstinence from anything like comment or the expression of opinion. In this suggestion, Sir, my Right Hon. Friend acquiesced : and, therefore, I considered the balance of names—whether the Members preponder_ atcd on the one side or the other—a matter of very little importance. ow n part, Sir, I am bound to declare, that a fairer Committee it would not be possible to select ; and t ha t Hon. Gent l emen whose names have Formy been proposed by my Right Hon. Friend, are all men whose honour anti integrity cannot for a single moment be doubted, and who arc en titled not only to the confidence of the House, but of the country,__. (Hear, and loud cheers.) Sir, while I regret that such an objec. tiou should have been put forward by the Noble Lord, I must say that I do not acquiesce in the course which has been taken by my Noble Friend the Member for Buckinghamshire and the Hon. Gentlemen the Members for Aylesbury and East Sussex ; fur, on the contrary, I think that an objection to an individual Member of Parliament ought not to induce him to withdraw from the performance of his public duty.— (Cheers.) This is a doctrine in which I say, Sir, I cannot acquiesce, and therefore I hope my Noble Friend and the Hon. Gentleman will alter their determination.—(Hear, hear.) No man could be named, I venture to assert, who takes a less offensive part in politi. cal discussions than my Noble Friend the Member for Buckingham. shire.—(Cheers.) It is well known that he entertains string politi cal opinions; but it is equally notorious that he urges his opinions ill a way which ensures him the compliments of both sides of the House.—(Cheers.) Sir, I can for my own part seriously assert that I never yet heard my Noble Friend make a speech on which he was not complimented for the absence of political acrimony or personal allusion which characterised it ; and, as to the truth of this assertion, I may fearlessly appeal to the Hon. Gentlemen opposite.—(Cheers.) Sir, it is not my intention to go into the names of Hon. Gentlemen pro. posed to be placed on this Committee by my Right Hon. Friend ; but without doing so, I may take upon me to say that they are men in whose honour and integrity any man would be perfectly safe; and, under such circumstances, I cannot help thinking that the objection urged by the Noble Lord has not been sustained. It is, Sir, utterly im. possible for me to excuse, though I am confident it was thrown out un. intententionally, the imputation which the Noble Lord has cast upon toy Noble, 'Right Hon , and Hon. Friends; but I am bound to say that, whether in office or out of office, nothing save special circumstances could induce me to devolve on a Committee of the House of Commons the task of inquiry into a case like the present. Considering the great loss of life that has taken place—the extraordinary delusion that has led to this lamentable result—and the degree of excitement which still prevails in that part of the country on the subject—l say, Sir, consi dering all this, that special circumstances do exist to justify the ap pointment of a Committee of inquiry, and me in giving my reluctant assent to the proposition of my Right Honourable Friend.—(Hear, hear.) I think it right to state the ground on which I mean to give my unwilling support to the appointment of this Committee ; and still further to guard myself I wish to say that the present case is so far re moved from all ordinary rules that the course which we may adopt with respect to it cannot hereafter be drawn into a precedent. Sir, I ant not ' at all surprised that my Right Hon. Friend should be desirous of inquiry, knowing, as he does, the feelings of the relatives and friends of the par ties who have unhappily lost their lives in the melancholy affair ; nor ant I at all surprised that the Noble Lord should be equally anxious for inquiry on other grounds ; but then I look at the abstract merits of the case, and thetefore, do not hesitate to say that nothing but the pe culiar, the special circumstances which it presents, could induce me to give my consent to the nomination of the proposed Committee.—(Hear.) Sir, I ant desirous of guarding my acquiescence in the motion of my Right Hon. Friend by this explanation, lest I should be bound by the vote I mean to give on any future occasion ; and, as the only duty the Committee will have to perform will be to report the evidence to the House, without comment or expression of opinion one way or the other, I do hope not only that the Noble Lord will withdraw his objec. lion, but above all, that my Noble, Right Hon., and Hon. Friends will not abandon that which is clearly their public duty.—(Loud cheers.) Sir 11. HARDINGE would fully admit to his Right lion. Friend that it was objectionable on the part of a Member of that House to withdraw himself from the performance of his public duty, but still, after the slur which had been cast on the Hon. Members named for this Committee, he thought he could not do otherwise than as his Noble and Hon. Friends had done. With ail due deference, therefore, he must be allowed to say that he could not serve on it. Mr. R. CLIVE also must, if the forms of the House would permit it, decline to allow his name to continue on the list of the Committee. Sir R. INGLIS must for himself say that it would be most painful to him if the House were to compel hitn to serve on a Committee under such circumstances.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BULWER said that the alteration proposed to be made in this list was not intended to disparage the Hon. Gentlemen who had been objected to, and therefore it did not justify the speeches inflicted on tl.ent front the other side of the House.—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") He, contended that there were no grounds for supposing any slur was intended to be cast on the Honourable Members named by the Right Hon. Bart. the Member for East Kent; and in sasing this lie believed he was speaking the sentiments of the Hon. Gentlemen on his side of the House. The Hon. and Learned Mertes( r for Aylesbury, who was now supposed to be a high Tory, had not always held the opi nions which he at present professed, and as his zeal in the cause which he now espoused might induce a doubt as to his discretion the objection taken to his name was perfectly warranted.—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh I") What, did the Hon. Gentlemen opposite not know that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the Member for Aylesbury had celebrated the an THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, JUNE 27, 183.!3. niversary of the execution of Charles the First by a calves' head dinner while he was at Cambridge.—(Renewed cries of " Oh, oh !") Whe❑ he recollected the political sentiments to which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman once adhered and those which he now professed he thought he had a right to •ear that the zeal of the Hon. and Learned Member might carry him too far, and this without any intention to cast a slur upon him —(Renewed cries of " Oh, oh !") The only feeling on his side of the House was that justice might be done—(" Oh, oh !")—and for this purpose he expected that some overture would have been made by the Honourable Gentlemen opposite by which that end could be ac. eomplished.—(Laughter.) Mr. PRAED said that whatever the opinions were which he enter. tained when in the cloisters of Trinity College, Cambridge, and whatever modifications had since then taken place in those opinions, still he was not such a fool as to imagine that any opinions he might entertain would be deemed a matter of the least importance by that House. With re spect to the particular fact alleged against him by the Right Hon. Mem. ber for Lincoln, all he could say was that that Hon. Member had grossly ill treated_ him by the nature of his attack.—(Cheers.) He would not, however, suffer himself to be irritated so far by the gross and unfair character of this attack as to forget what he owed to the Hon. Member for Lincoln and the orders of that House ; and, therefore, all he would say was, that he attributed only to loss of memory the gross misstate ment into which the Honourable Member for Lincoln had fallen.— (Cheers.) Mr. PRYME could not speak as to the fact alluded to by his Hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln, having no knowledge on the subject, but he would ask the Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury whether lie had not done this ?—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh," " Order, order," " Ques. tion, question.") He thought that he was speaking to the question strictly. What he wished to know was, and he might controvert it Übe could, whether he had not within two months of the time he was first returned to that House professed opinions adverse to those of a youthful Tory—opinions which were extremely Whiggish, if they did not amount to downright Radicalism ?—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") Now, giving the Hon. and Learned Gentleman every credit for good intentions, it was clear that he was liable to sudden convictions—to have new new lights break. ing in upon his mind. Mr. W. DUNCOMBE rose to order, and submitted that the Hon. Member for Cambridge was not speaking to the question before the House. (Cheers.) The SPEAKER must put it to the discretion of the Hon. Member for Cambridge himself to determine how far his argument related to the discussion before the House. At present it seemed to him (the Speaker) that the Hon. Gentleman was anticipating the debate hereafter to come on with reference to the nomination of the Committee.—(Hear.) Mr. PRYME said that if he were out of order he would at once sub mit ; but he did not think he had departed from the question under the consideration of the House. However, he had but one sentence snore to utter, and that was, that although, giving the Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury credit for the sincerity of the conviction which influenced the change in his opinions; he thought that Hon. and Learned Gentleman had shown such a versatility of judgment as ren. dered him unfit for a duty of this kind.—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear.") Mr. PRAED rose amidst loud cries of " Spoke, spoke," and confu sion.—The Hon. Member for Cambridge seems to assume, Sir, that I am unable to answer his question, and therefore he says I have shown such a versatility of judgment as renders me incapable of being a good juror. I beg, however, to give the Hon. Gentleman the same short answer that I have given to the Honourable Member for Lincoln, and that answer is, that there is no more truth in what he has stated than there is in the statement made by the Hon. Member fer Lin coln, that in the University of Cambridge I celebrated the anniversary of the execution of Charles the Martyr by a calves' head dinner,—(Loud cries of " Spoke, spoke," and " Order, order.") . . Mr. BULWER—I give the Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury as flat a contradiction as he has given me.—(Renewed cries of " Order, order," " Chair, chair.") Mr. GOULBURN slid not rise in defence of his Hon. Friend, but merely to protest against the monstrous doctrine that had been laid down, that because at an antecedent period a man had held other po litical opinions than those he now entertained, he was, therefore, in. capacitated from honourably discharging his public duty.—(Hear, hear.) Whether his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Ayles bury had or had not modified his political opinions since his residence in Trinity College, Cambridge, was net a question into which they had any right to inquire; but this he would say, that he never heard his Hon. and Learned Friend's name mentioned unaccompanied with the acknowledgment of the high honour by which on every occasion his conduct was guided, and the talents by which he had gained distinc tion, that entitled him to the weight and consideration he enjoyed in the University to which he belonged, as well as in the councils of the nation.—(Cheers.) Mr. E. J. STANLEY said, with respect to the relative numbers his Noble Friend had never intended to make any alteration, as the num bers would still be a majority in favour of the Hon. Gentleman oppo site of gto 7. The Honourable Baronet the Member for Tamworth, had disclaimed anything like party motives in his speech, but for his (Mr. E. J. Stanley's) part he must say that he never heard a speech more acrimonious in its tone, or snore directed to the attain ment of party objects.—(" Hear, hear," and " Oh, oh.") Imputations had been cast upon his Right Hon. Friend, Sir H. Vivian, for liberating Thom, and therefore, as an examination into the facts of the case be came necessary, It was only right that the Committee should be so COB stituted as to justify their hope that a proper result would be arrived at. For his own part he thought that his Hon. Friend had exercised a wise discretion in what lie had done, and he trusted that his Noble Friend would take the sense of the House upon the subject, as his only object was the attainment of truth and justice—(Laughter)—without regard to party feeling or party purposes.—(Renewed laughter, and cries of "Hear, hear.") Mr. DARBY rose and attempted to address the House, amid cries of " Spoke, spoke." Sir T. TROUBRIDGE rose to order. The Hots. Gentleman might explain, but he had no right to do more, as he had already spoken in this debate. Mr. DARBY—The Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. E. J. Stanley) had made a reference to some Hon. ➢fember on his (Mr. Darby's) side of the House, and what he wished to know was, if the Hon. Gentleman had alluded to him ? Mr. E. J. STANLEY had alluded not to the Hon. Gentleman, but to the Hon. Member for Aylesbury. Mr. DARBY was glad to hear this, and the only observation he had now to make was, the reason he had withdrawn his name was the terms in which the Noble Lord opposite had spoken with regard to the parties to whom he objected.—(Loud cries of "Spoke," " Order," &c.) Lord J. RUSSELL said that as the Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury had left the House it was not impossible that the matter would be carried beyond the walls of that House, and to prevent such a result he felt it necessary to move that the Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury be ordered to attend in his place, and that the Hon. Member for Lincoln be likewise ordered to remain in his place in order that they might be assured that no dangerous consequences might ensue from the words which had pass,d between those two Hon. Gen. tlemen.— (Hear, hear.) The motion was agreed to, and the Sergeant at Arms was directed to obtain the presence of the Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury forthwith. Mr. HODGES hoped that the Right Hon. Baronet would not per. severe in his motion.— (Hear, hear.) Mr. WARBURTON said that this discussion showed very clearly how impossible it was for that House to appoint a fair Committee,. pecially an Election Committee. He was prepared to give the Motion of the Right Hon. Baronet a direct negative. Sir E. KNATCHBULL said that nothing was farther front his mind, in bringing forward this motion, than either party feelings or party motives. He could not, after what had passed, consent to the al_ teration proposed by the Noble Lord, and therefore he must take th e sense of the House upon his motion. After a few words from Sir H. VIVYAN, Mr. T. RICE, and Mr, HINDUS, Mr. WARBURTON should divide the Rouge against the motion of the Right Hon. Baronet. The House then divided— For the appointment of the Committee ...... 12.4 Against it Majority in favour of the Committee Mr. O'CONNELL hoped that the Honourable Baronet would pos_ pone the appointment of the Committee. Next to believing in Tholn, there was nothing mere absurd than the appointment of this Committee. The name of Sir E. Knatehbull was then proposed and agreed to. Sir EDW. KNATCHBULL then proposed the name of the Earl of Lincoln. . Lord 110S\ ICk moved as an amendment that, instead of the Earl of Lincoln, the name of Sir Thomas D. Acland be substituted. Sir EDW. KNATCHBULL opposed the amendment, which, if the Noble Lord persisted in pressing, he should take the sense of the House upon it. Sir R. INGLIS thought that it was the rule, as it most undoubtedly was the practice, that previously to placing an Honourable Member's name upon a Committee, he should be asked whether or not he was willing to serve. He wished to ask the Noble Lord if he had taken this course whenat ear art Hon. Member intend e d Lord o i i c e K p r:.esaesnwtwell instanceaware ?; hear.) to name a Committee it was the rule of the House that every Member whom he intended to place on the Committee should previously be ap plied to, to ascertain whether or not he was willing to serve. The case, however, was different when a Member at one side of the House mo ve d the appointment of a Committee, and the list was unsatisfactory to the other side of the House. In that case it was necessary to move the sub_ stitution of names without the Opportunity of consulting . the Honour able Member for North Devon, but the Hon. Baronet who had asked him the question (Sir R. H. Inglis) had himself very properly observed a few minutes ago, that when an H on. M em b er wa s placed on a Com mittee by the vote of the House, it was Isis duty to serve on that Coin mittee.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial Benches.) Mr. GOULBURN felt bound to interpose an observation before the House divided on this question.—(Hear.) Previously to the House being called upon to express an opinion upon the fitness or unfitness of the Earl of Lincoln to serve on this Committee, it was right that it should have something to go upon. It was right that something should be stated as grounds of objection to the fitness of the Noble Lord. Under these circumstances, and considering the charccter borne by that Noble Lord, he thought it but fair that, before the House was asked to go to a vote on this question, they should have stated to them some reasons to show why and in how far the Earl of Lincoln was unfitted to serve on this Committee.— (Cheers.) Lord HO WICK did not mean anything to the prejudice of the Noble Earl, either in thought or in statement, lie appealed to the House whether it was a fair position to be placed in, that he should be called upon to state the grounds of his objections to any name which he thought ought not to be placed on the Committee. They must judge of the con stitution of Committees of this kind from their general complexion, and in selecting a Committee of this kind, they must throw aside that con ventional politeness so habitual in the House. What he would pro pose was this : let the whole of the list of names itt both sides, with the exception of the name of the Honourable Baronet himself, a the mover of the Committee, be cancelled. Let the Hon. Baronet then consult with his friends, and he did not anticipate that he would find it difficult to settle wish some Member at this side of the House (the Mi nisterial side) upon the constitution of a Committee. He repeated that if the Hon. Baronet would adopt the course he now suggested, and pro pose a fresh list for another day, that his object would be effectuallly answered in the Nomination of a Committee. Sir E. KNATCHBULL thought that the Noble Lord ought to ex tend to that (the Opposition) side of the House the same courtesy that that they lr.d been disposed to extend to him.—(Cheers. If the Noble Lord had, some days back, made his proposition for some mutual arrangement with rospect to the nomination of the Coin • mitten, he (Sir Edward Knatchbull) might have been disposed to concur in it. Eut after what had that night occurred, and after the objections that had been made to those whom he had named, he felt that he would not be acting fairly towards them if he now consented to enter into any such arrangement,—(Cheers.) Mr. O'CONNELL should propose that one Member at that, the Mi nisterial side of the House, should name seven Members to serve on the Committee, and that an Hon. Member on the other side should name seven on his side of the House.—(No, no.) Mr. W. HARVEY denied for one, that he belonged te any party with respect to this question. He thought such procee dings as had taken place that evening were calculat e d t o d egrade the House, and place them in a very unenviable situation b e f ore t h e coun try—(Hear, hear) —when it should be known that On an occas i on i nvo lving an in quiry into facts they could not agree in the n om i na ti on O f fifteen gen tlemen to whom that honourable and useful t as k cou ld be confided. — (Hear, hear.) He equally, however, dissented from the proposition that to reject one was to reject all. The Hon. Baronet had done him the honcur to place his name on the Committee, and the Noble Lord had been pleased to recognise it ; but he certainty had no hopes from an in quiry which wa, b; gun in party spirit, and must be conducted in an unsatisfactory manner, and which was not likely to confer any honour on the }Louse, either in its commencement or termination.—(Cheers from the Ministerialists ) Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, when th e numbers were— For the original motion lO4 For the substitution of Sir T. D. Arland Majority against the original motion -.40 Sir T. D. Acland's name was accordingly substituted for that of the Earl of Lincoln. Sir E. KNATCHBULL then proposed the name of the Marquis of Chandos. Lord HOWICK moved all an amendment that the name of Sir It Peel be substituted. Sir It. PEEL immediately rose and said—The occasions have been very rare in which I have ever shrunk from the discharge of any duty which the House has thought fit to impose upon me; but, on the pre sent occasion, in order to record my sense of the injustice of the course adopted towards my Noble Friend, it is my intention to depart from my ordinary rule, and to decline serving upon this Committee.—!Loud and continued cheering from the Opposition benches.) Sir F. TRENCH (with some warmth) could not abstain from stating that the conduct of the Noble Lord was somewhat extraordinary in having proposed the name of the Right Hon. Baronet on the bench be low him. The Noble Lord could not have so far forgotten that he had but the evening before ascertained, in a private conference, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had an objection to serve on the Committee.— (Opposition cheers.) Lord HO WICK—The abjection made by the Gallant Officer was of so idle and trivial a nature that he scarcely thought it necessary to notice it. What the Gallant Officer had stated was perfectly true, that the Right Hon. Baronet had expressed an unwillingness to serve upon the Committee; but, then, he (Lord Howick) understood that the Right Hon. Baronet's reluctance to serve arose out of feelings of delicacy to wards a political opponent. He regretted the course which the Right Honourable Baronet had felt it his duty to adopt. A 11, then, that he (Lord Howick) could do under the circumstances would be to persist in the amendment which lie had moved.—(Cheers from the Ministerial benches.) Mr. W. DU NCO MBE (with considerable warmth and energy) thought a motion of this kind ought to have some grounds to support it. It was incumbent upon the Noble Lord to state any objections which he enter tained towards his Noble Friend the Member for Buckinghamshire.— (Loud cheers from the Opposition benches.) There was no man in the House who, on the ground of his long experience, ought to be consi dered to have more fitness for the discharge of duties of this kind.— (Hear.) His Noble Friend had for the last twenty years been a Mem ber of that House, and during all that time his Noble Friend had paid the greatest attention to all the important questions that had come un der the attention of Parliament. As an independent Member of that House he felt bound to protest against the course taken by the Noble Lord.—(Cheers.) He had It ad the honour of a seat in that House for a few years, and though lie had seen the names of Members occasionally objected to, yet he felt bound to say that the course adopted towards his Noble Friend was a course wholly without precedent.—(Cheers.) The Noble Lord opposite, in refusing to state the ground of objection to the Noble Lord's fitness to serve on the Committee, had laid down a doctrine to which he, as an independent Member of that House, felt bound in the strongest manner to object.---(Loud cheers.) Sir E. KNATCHBULL said, after the division that had taken place, it was quite manifest that the power of naming the Committee now rested completely in the hands of the Noble Lord.—(Loud and continued cheering from the Conservative benches.) He would, therefore, leave the appointment of the Committee entirely in the hands of the Noble Lord, being perfectly aware that, in the names he was about to propose, he was not likely to receive the sanction of the Noble Lord or his friends. —(Loud cheers.) He, therefore, now left entirely to the Noble Lord the nomination of the Committee.—(Loud cheers.) Lord HOWICK could not allow the observations which had fallen from the Hon. Baronet to pass without notice. He did not wish it to be supposed that he had any wish to force the question in the way in which the I - lon. Baronet had stated.—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh," from the Conservative benches, answered by cheers from the Treasury side of the House.) He was anxious to settle the question amicably, and it was by no seeking of his that anything unpleasing towards any individual had taken place. He could not state any further reasons for wishing the change than this—that he thought that the Right Hon. Baronet opposite (Sir R. Peel) would make a more useful member of the Com mittee than the Noble Marquis.—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh," and sar castic cheering, answered by loud cheering frem the other side of the House.) Mr. W. DUNCOMBE rose in the midst of great confusion, and cries of " Adjourn," " Divide,"" Spoke," &c. The Hon. Member, however, immediately gave way to the Marquis of CHANDOS, who said that when the Noble Lord opposite had done him the honour to mention his name, he felt bound to say, with respect to any opinions which the Noble Lord entertained of him, or to wards him, they were to him (the Marquis of Chandos) a matter of the most perfect indifference. —(Great and reiterated cheering from the Op. position benches.) But whilst he said this, he would Hot permit the No ble Lord, or any oth er M em b er o f t h at H ouse t o p u t on him. The Noble Lord, h owever, had subsequently stated that he had not i ntended to cast any imputation upon him. He was therefore so far willing to be_ have that the Noble Lord did not mean to offer any insult to him. Bu t lie must take the liberty to say that when the Noble Lord brough forward an accusation against him before the House and tliecountryt he had a right to ascertain the reasons that existed for that accusation., —(Loud cheers.) He had a right to ask the Noble Lord why he had objected to him as unfit to serve upon that Committee. He repeated, in conclusion, that he was bound to believe the statement of the Noble Lord, that he meant no insult towards him. He would therefore say no more at present with reference to what had occurred, but would leave the House to form their own decision on the conduct which had been pursued by the Noble Lord.—(Great and continued cheering, in the midst of which the Noble Marquis left the House.) Mr. LABOUCHERE did not shrink from saying, without any inten. tion to give offence, that the Committee originally Proposed was not a tribunal with the constitution of which that side of the House had Perfect reason to be satisfied. He thought that it would be better if the Hon. Baronet would adopt some amicable arrangement by which a fair Committee could be constituted to the satisfaction of both sides of the House.—(Hear, hear, from the Treasury benches.) Sir E. KNATCIIBULL found it impossible under the circumstances to withdraw thOse names, or give up those individuals whom he had ori. ginally proposed.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. GOULBTJUN said the objections stated were not objections to the names merely, but individuals were objected to because it was al leged their party feeling was such as to incapacitate them from &cry ing.—(Cheers.) Now, the object ions to one Hon. Member were that he had cheered the speech of the Hon. Baronet the Member for Kent, and that therefore he was incompetent to sit on his Committee. Surely these were unprecedented objections.—(Cheers, and loud cries of " Divide, divide.") Sir E. KNATCHBULL had no wish, after what had occurred, to divide the House. Sir R. PEEL trusted that, after he had stated his objections to serve upon the Committee, the Noble Lord would not persist in his amendment. Lord HO WICK was understood to make no answer; and the Speaker put the question. . _ _ . - --- - . The gallery was then cleared and the House dividcd— For the original motion For the substitution of Sir R. Pee 1........„ ...... Majority against the motion —l9 On our readmission to the gallery we found The SPEAKER on his legs. The night Honourable Gentleman said that it was his duty to acquaint the House that Mr. Praed, a Mem ber of that House, had been ordered to attend in his place in the House, • but (as we understood the Right Hon. Gentleman) the wish of the House could not now be carried into effect, as the Hots. Member could not be found. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the object which the House had in view in making the order could not be carried into effect w ith respect to the gentleman who was ab s ent, but they could follow it up with respect to the gentleman who was present. He therefore intended to move that the gentleman who was in his place should be called on by the Speaker.—(A laugh.) It became his duty to move that the Hon. Member should be called on in his place to give a promise to the House that he did not intend to carry any further the matter which had occurred that evening. The SPEAKER said, after what occurred, it became his duty to in form the Hon. Member for Lincoln that the House expected that he would g i v e them an assurance that he did no t i n t en d to a ccept any hos tile message on the part of the Hon. Member who had left his place. He wished to know did the Hon. Member consent to this ?—(Cries of " Divide, divide.") Mr BVLWER rose, and made some brief o b servat i ons, w hi c h did no t . reach the gallery. T h e SPEAKER did not express to the Honourable Member his own o pinion, but the opinion of the House, and in deference to that opinion he now called upon the Honourable Member to give the House ) f tpat assurance on, his part which it was reasonable for him to expect.— Renewed cries of " Divide.") Mr. BVLWER rose and said he was now in the hands of the House, and whatever party feeling might have been shown in the earlier part of their proceedings, he was sure there would be an abstinence from any manifestation of that kind when the character of one of their own Mem. bers was c oncerned.—(Hear, hear, from both sides of the House.) He was sure the House would make due allowance for the situation in which he was placed. He was not aware that any past of the discussion on his side had been of a hostile stature. He certainly, as well as others at the same side of the House, slid take exceptions to the nomi. nations of the Committee originally proposed. He believed that he had but expressed the general wish at that side of the House, when he disclaimed any wish to cast imputations or discredit upon the character of any Honourable Members to whom he objected. • wh e n he objected to the Hon. Member for Buckinghamshire he stated that there was not at either side of the House any more respectable Member than the Noble Lord. He had stated, moreover, with respect to the Hon. Member for Sussex that there was no objection to him but the short time that he had been in the House. He had stated that he h a d no objection personally to him, but that he objected to his appoint ment because he feared that he had the zeal of a novice in those opinions which he had more recently formed. He thou proceeded to illustrate that statement respecting the Hon. Member for Aylesbury, by mention. ing that the Hon. Member when at Cambridge: had been in the habit of attending meetings in celebration of the execution of Charles the First, and that he believed the Hon. Member continued to maintain those opinions up to a very late period previous to his enjoying the honour of being elected a Member of that House. Well, he believed that that was the sum of his objections to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. The Hon. and Learned Member, in reply to him, charged him with having made a misstatement—with being guilty of a lapse of memory, he (Mr. Bulwer) making no reply. He made use of no hostile expres sion, because he felt that whatever observations had been made re-. ferred to a matter of fact, which was not of itself a matter of any great attention, but merely mentioned incidentally. He (Mr. Bill. wcr) had thought the HOD. and Learned Member's language perfectly Parliamentary. His Right Hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge then accused the Hon. and Learned Member of versatility of judg ment, and the Hon. and Learned Member in his reply took occasion to repeat with strong appearance of excitement the statement which he (Mr. Bulwer) had made.—(Hear, hear.) He (his. Bulwer) then stated that, as the matter was merely a matter of fact, and easy to be ascertained, lie did not think it necessary to notice the Hon. and Learned Member's contradiction. Surely this required no farther ex ploitation, nor that he should be now called on to make any apology. The Honourable and Learned Member then going out of the House left him (Mr. Bulwer) in this situation, that the Member who had withdrawn would be in a condition to take any notice of the circumstance he pleased, while he (Mr. Bulwer) would be bound down in a manner exceedingly painful to a gentleman and a man of honour. He did not think this fair. —(Hear, hear.) Ile was perfectly ready at once to say that it was not his intention to take any notice of the lion. • and Learned Member's observations—more, he did not think was called for. The matter was one of fact between the Ilon. and Learned Mein. tier and himself, and one which, being known to a great number of per sons, could be easily decided. He di d not, under these circumstances, think it fair that he (Mr. Bulwer) should be bound down sinless the Hon. :tnd Learned Member was present.—(Hear, hear.) Any mutual ar rangement he would agree to, but it could not be expected that he should do so alone. Ile threw himself upon the candour of the House, and he trusted that no party feeling would allow them to refuse fair play.—(Hear, hear.) The SPEAKER said that the Hon. Member was mistaken, inasmuch as that no apology was required. He felt assured that he seas only ex pressing the opinion of the House in saying that nothing was further Roos its intentians than to place any Hon. Member in an unfair position. If both Hon Members had been in their places never would they have been allowed to leave until both had given security against any ulterior proceedings. As the other Hon. and Learned Member for Aylesbury was not now present, all that the House would require from the Hon. Member for Lincoln would be to give security until the next sitting of the House, when the question would be finally decided.—(Hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER hoped that his Hon. IFriend behind him would feel the justice of the observations which they had just heard from the highest authority m the House. If the proposal just made to his Hon. Friend involved any sacrifice of personal station or character, or that any apology was required, there might be some diffi. culty in thc case; but when all that was required was security that matters should proceed no further until both were present, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) thought his lion. Friend would be doing no mere than he was bound to do in acquiescing in the advice he had re. ceived from the Chair. The SPEAKER said, that perhaps it might he satisfactory for the Hon. Member for Lincoln to know that there was a precedent for the conduct recommended to him in the case of the Hon. Member for Scar borough. Sir DE LACY EVANS hoped that his Hon. Friend would yield to the pleasure of the House. Sir HENRY HARDINGE said that what had been done was merely the duty of the House. It was merely to require that no hostile meet. ing should take place until the Hon. and Learned Member for Ayles bury should be present in the House. He (Sir H. Hardinge) should say, after the precedent just quoted by the Speaker, that the Hon. Member tOr Lincoln had no discretion, as the next step in case of re fusal, would be exceedingly unpleasant.—(Hear.) In his opinion the Hon. Member should at once give the assurance required, as by doing so he would be doing nothing derogatory to his honour.—(Hear.) Mr. BULWER understood that he was to be lett no discretion in the matter. However painful and disagreeable the step alluded to by the Hon. and Gallant Member, might be to him (Mr. Bulwer), a night's custody would be less so than any deviation from the dictates of honour. He would, however, yield at once to the pleasure of the House, if the Hon. and Gallant Officer would say that he would act similarly is a similar situation.—(Hear.) Sir H. HARDINGE had not the slightest limitation in saying, that if he were in a position similar to that of the Hon. Member fat Lincoln, he would at once acquiesce in the wishes of the House.—(Cheers.) Mr. BULWER, on this assurance, at once gave the required pledge. The selection of the Committee was then proceeded with. The SPEAKER then put the question, that Lord Howick be named a member of the Committee; and the dissentients being very numerous, was ordering the galleries to be cleared for a division, when Sir E. KNATCHBULL protested against any further divisions. His desire now was, to leave the matter entirely in the hands of her Majesty's Government.—(Hear, and cheers.) Mr. C. WOOD said the proposition for the insertion of the name of his Noble Friend had come from the opposite side of the House.—(Hear.) It was then agreed that Lord Howick's name should be inserted. The question was then put that Mr. Praed be named a Member of the Committee, and also the amendment that his name be omitted, and that of Mr. ?ryme substituted. After an observation from Lord CLIVE the amendment was agreed to. Mr. CRESS WELL wished to make one or two observations respecting the selection of Mr. Pryme. It appeared to be a principal recommenda tion with Government that Members should have declined to serve.— (Hear, hear.) Those he had heard mentioned were all Members who had expressly declined serving. He thought this rather singular.— (Hear, hear.) Another matter that struck him was that lists of the names of Committees were published for the information of Members, and afterwards, as in the present case, erased and replaced by others. No one could by the published lists form any satisfactory idea of the composition of a Committee.—(Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he hoped the Hon. and Learned Member, while complaining of the selection of Members who had declined to serve, would recollect that the Marquis of Chandos was proposed and voted for on the other side of the House. After he had declined attendance, the Hon. and Learned Member, who had been rejected, had declined also. Therefore, if the objection was good for anything it wr.s equally valid with respect to the original names as in the case of those substituted. With respect to the second stAe ment, he admitted that there was an inconvenience in substituting names for those originally inserted. Before they had departed from the old regulations such scenes as the present had never occurred. The names of Mr. Shaw Lefcvre, Mr. Darby, Sir Robert Inglis, end Mr. Hardy, were then agreed to. On .the proposal that the name of Sir Henry Hardinge be inserted, Sir HENRY FIARDINGE thought the concession of those altera tions in the constitution of the Committee had been a source of great injustice. As that proceeding had, at least indirectly, attacked friends of his, he must, to mark his sense of the injustice, respectfully decline serving on the Committee.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. P. THOMSON hoped that after what had just now occurred some Hon. Member would move to rescind the order for the publication of the lists.—(No, no.) The SOLICITOR-GENERAL was then proposed, and agreed to. Sir T. D. ACLA ND hoped that as it was generally the custom to consult Members as to whether they were inclined to serve, and, as that had not been done in his case, he should be allowed to decline serving on the Committee.—(Laughter.) Sir G. SINCLAIR said he hoped that none of the illustrious foreigners who were now in this country had found their way under the gallery to listen to such ridiculous discussions as the present.—(Laughter.) The Committee, with the alterations proposed by Lord Howick, was lieu agreed to. BRITISH LEGION. Captain MATHEW moved for an " address to her Majesty, that she will be graciously pleased to direct her Minister at the Court of Spain to take such measures as may be requisite to ensure the immediate settle. ment of the just claims of the officers, noncommissioned officers, and privates of the late British Auxiliary Legion, acting in the service of her Catholic Majesty, under the authority of licenses issued by order in Council by the British Government." One of the principal errors of the course of Foreign policy by the Government was the keeping a naval force in the north of Spain, which could be better employed in protecting our Rag from insult in other seas. Captain BOLDER() rose to second the proposition, but would give the opportunity to the Gallant General opposite (General Evans) if he should choose to undertake it. General EVANS did not think he was called upon to do so. The pro position would more properly be seconded by some Gentleman on the other side of the House, at which it originated. Lord DUNGANNON here intimated that he had seconded the pro. position. Captain BOLDER() thought it unjust and ungenerous in the Gallant Gentleman opposite not to advocate the claims of those who fought and bled with him. The lives of thousands had been sacrificed to procure him distinction, and it was but reasonable to expect that he should advo cate their claims. He felt sure that the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman would record his vote in favour of the claims of those by whom he had raised himself to distinction. Captain PECHELL complained that the motion was rather an attack and censure on the Gallant Gentleman near him (General Evans) than an effort to aid those in whose favour it was apparently made. — (No, no.) Sir DE L. EVANS did not feel that the motion was a personal attack upon him, though the question had, on his arrival in this country, been made a party one, and had been used as such in his election. He felt convinced that something would soon be done for these men. It should be remembered that the privates had all been paid up except the gratui ties, to which, however, it must be admitted that they had a just claim. The pensions also bad been paid in advance, and the whole of the sum new due, not including the gratuity, did not amount to more than 70,0001. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman concluded by expressing his ()intim concurrence in the motion. Lord PALMERSTON was glad lie could compliment the Hon. Gen tlemen who had spoken upon this subject on the tone and temper which characterised it. With regard to the question the House should remem ber that all the men had been paid up to the time of their final discharge, and had also been paid their marching money. The only thing which they had not been paid was the gratuities. The matter was not, as had been asserted, neglected up to the present moment. On the contrary, there was at present a commission sitting in London to determine on the amount of arrears due. He did not deny that the English Govern ment was bound to try to procure a settlement of this debt. He would propose as an amendment, that her Majesty be pleased to direct her Minister at Madrid to continue his good offices used to obtain the just claims of the claims of the officers, non commissioned °fliers, and pri vates in the service of her Spanish Majesty, by virtue of the two Orders in Council of 1835 and 1836. Sir R. PEEL would advise his Honourable Friend to acquiesce in the suggestion, as by obtaining the unanimous assent of the House there would be some prospect that the question would be settled, and that those contemplated by the resolution would receive their just dues. The only difficulty which he (Sir It. Peel) felt was to the adoption of the words " continue to use his good offices." This would have the ap pearance that the House was satisfied that such offices had been al. ready effectually used. Now, there was do evidence before them that such had been the case, and the acceptance of those words would show that the House acquiesced in he validity of the efforts which had been made; but still, for the purpose of securing the moral effect which unanimity in the motion might procure, the objection could be got rid of. He could assure the Gallant Gentleman who corn. munded the Legion that he was much mistaken if he supposed that there was any party feeling mixed up with the discussion of this question. The Gallant Gentleman himself had, on a previous occasion, admitted that he (Sir Robert Peel) had made full allowance for the :difficulty of the position in which the Honourable and Gallant Gentleman was placed. The Gallant Gentleman was not responsible for the consequences attendant upon the expedition of the Legion. The responsibility rested solely upon the Government, which had invited them to go out.—(Cheers.) For himself he felt the greatest sympathy for the persons who were thus misled, and he fully admitted the justice of their claims ; but he doubted if there were not other persons to whose claims a preference should be given. The claims of the British merchants under treaty required also to be recognised, and we should see that good faith was preserved with them.—(Hear, hear.) Still the British Government was bound to exert itsolf in favour of both classes of claimants.—(Hear.) He trusted that what bad taken place with respect to the Legion would be a caution to Ministers as to their giving encouragement to British subjects to enter into the service of any other State.—(Cheers.) For himself, he from the outset foresaw • the resulr. He never did, and never would, doubt that British soldiers would, under any circumstances, exhibit the courage which always characterised them ; but he always foresaw, from the peculiar character of the Spanish people, and the na ture of the warfare in which they were engaged, that however spirited and courageous the troops might be which were sent to share in the con flict, they could.never be effective for the purpose which was had in view.—(Hear.) Mr. D'EYNCOURT was happy to hear the Bight Hon. Baronet do justice to his Gallant Friend beside him (Gen Evans), and would rely upon the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Department for urging on the claims of those parties. Sir It. PEEL stated that, in acquiescing in this motion, he wished to give his opinion that in no possible case could the pecuniary claims of the Legion be justly charged on the Government of this country. Captain MATHEW said that for the sake of unanimity in this desirable vote he would acquiesce, and withdraw the objectionable ex pression. The motion then passed unanimously. Mr. G. PALMER gave notice that he would postpone his motion for the production of a letter from the Poor-law Commissioners to the As. sistant Commissioners, relative to the appointment of Assistant Over seers, till the subject had come before the House of Lords. TIE. International Copyright Bill wad r,ad a third time and passed. The other Ord,rs of the Day were then gone through, and the House adjourned about half-past One. LAW APPOINTMENT.—For once praise has been extorted from even an enemy. The Dublin Evening Mail of Monday last has in it the following paragraph :—" The loyal and well-disposed in this country will be at once delighted and surprised to learn that Major Warburton has been appointed to succeed Colonel Shaw Kennedy as Inspector-in-Chief of the Irish Constabulary. An appointment so unexceptionable—nay, so positively good—is now a-days so wonderful, that, without doubting the fact, we pause to inquire how it was brought about; whether it was the result of selection, or was stumbled upon by accident. Be that as it may, we hare nothing to do but to rejoice at the consequence, and share with the public the benefits of this unexpected turn in the Irish ;policy._ There is nothing of the O'Mul in this." ADJOURNED INQUEST ON BOARD THE VIC TORIA SruaM-Sllie.—Yesterday the adjourned inquest on this catastrophe took plai.e at the Waterman's Arms. Lower Shadwell, when after evi dence had been gone into at some length, the inquiry was again ad journed. " Bell's Life in London," price Five Pence only, will give a very accurate account of the Coronation ceremonies, illus trated with engravings. On this occasion the pul4lication will commence on Saturday morning at 11 o'clock, at the office. 170, Strand, where can be had for threepence each, together or seperate, part 1,2, 3,4, 5, and 6, of the Gallery of Comicalitics. , CORONATION. —The inmates of St. Pancras Workhouse will participate in the festivities of the occasion, pursuant to a resolution of the Directors of the Poor of that p:rish of the 12th instant, and will be regaled on the 28th with their customary Christmas tare, roast beef and plum pudding. One ounce of tobacco will be given to each man, and one ounce of tea, with four ounces of loaf-sugar, to each of the women; the children receiving each twopence, We un derstand Nicholls, her Alaj'ist)'s brewer, will supply a pint of ale for each person. WEYMOUTH-MONDAY. TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. Sir,—The Committee (nearly all Tories) for carrying into effect the arrangements for celebrating her Majesty's Corona tion-day at this place, among other things determined that a Public Dinner should take place at the Royal Ilotel ; Tickets, 7s. 6d. each. The Mayor, a rank Tory, in the Chair; and another worthy Tory as his Vice-Chairman. On meeting to decide upon the toasts to be given on the occasion, " The Members of the Borough" was one proposed ; but on one of the gentleman (a Liberal) suggesting the propriety of the toast, " Her Majesty's Ministers," having precedence of the Members, the cloven foot was instantly shown by these mock loyal subjects, declaring that no such toast should he allowed to be drunk, and one canting, crying gentleman present thought proper to offer up this sublime prayer, " That he sincerely hoped the Ministers would soon see the error of their ways ;" and I dare say, if allowed time, would have added, " and resign," in order that sonic of his friends may come in again for the loaves and fishes. But these would-be-loyal, fearing that it may prove an injury to a full attendance at dinner, and make them cut but a sorry figure, agreed to forego drinking the health of their worthy Members, AS A SET OFF. The Chairman stated with great modesty that nothing should induce him to drink the toast, " Her Majesty's Ministers." In consequence of these proceedings, the really loyal sub feels of her Majesty in this town intend dining at the Crown Inn on that day, where they will drink.the health of " Eng land's Queen" in full bumpers, and also to the real friends and preservers of their country, " The Ministers," and may they long remain in office to carry out those measures of Re form tending to benefit the country. A CONSTANT READER. P. S. Since writing the above, the Committee, finding their de cision met with the most decided disapprobation of the respect able and loyal portion of the inhabitants, held a meeting, and decided, by a majority 'of ONE, that the toast, " Her Ma jesty's Ministers," should be drank, fearing but an indifferent attendance. John Williams, Esq., has kindly consented to take the Chair at the Crown Inn, and made them a present of a very fine turtle. THE CORONATION. It having been reported that some tickets for admission to the Abbey have been forged, the Earl Marshal has issued orders that a strict examination shall take place by the officers of the Earl Marshal and the police on duty, of every ticket presented at each door, and proceedings will be aJopted to punish all parties concerned. We arc authorised to caution parties proceeding in car riages to set down company on the line of the royal pro cession, that it may be necessary to close the barriers on this route at eight o'clock in the morning of the 28th, instead of nine. Persons wishing to pass in carriages to set down at any part of the line of the procession, are therefore recom mended to be early. The public are cautioned not to carry valuable property about their persons in the streets on the day of the coronation. Yesterday the metropolis presented a most extraordinary appearance. The great thoroughfares were literally so crammed with pedestrians, the great majority of whom appeared to be strangers anxious to see the progress of the preparations fur celebrating the day of the coronation, that it was almost impossible to pass along them, and omnibuses and other public vehicles were in many places compelled to proceed for a considerable distance at a foot pace. Business appeared completely at a stand-still. All the hotels in the City and the west-end of the town are crowded, end the arrival of every fresh coach from the country contributes to swell the number of strangers already assembled in the me tropolis. Notwithstanding that the weather yesterday was rather unfavourable, the fair in Hyde. park was visited by thousands of persons. All the great establishments in Lon don have intimated their intention to give their men a holiday on the day of the coronation. The regalia have been removed from Messrs. Rundell and Brydge's, and placed in the custody of the proper officer. THE WELLINGTON MEMORIAL. (From the Times.) It is a week or ten days since we raised our voice against one of the most mischievous, offensive, and revolting jobs that ever disgraced this country, so fertile in them. t behoves us, we see, to try our hand again; and if the noblest of the fine arts can yet he rescued from insult, or the memory of the greatest living Englishman from desecration, it is our bounden duty—in the discharge of which we earnestly claim, nay, sup plicate, the cordial help and support of all our brethren of the press, without distinction of politics or party—to denounce and reprobate, in the face of the whole world, the monstrous attempt upon human patience which is now in progress, and of which the authorship rests, as our correspondents, and in deed the printed reports inform us, with Sir Frederick Trench. The job in question is no other than the consignment of the Wellington Memorial," for the western end of the metro polis, to a certain Mr. Wyatt, to whom we are indebted for that burlesque effigy miscalled an " equestrian statue " of George 111., which adorns a part of Westminster formerly known as Cockspur-street, but latterly, through the good offices of the said Mr. Wyatt, distinguished as " Pigtail place." The choice of an artist for this work lay tvith a Committee of sixty-one noblemen and gentlemon, appointed (self-ap pinted, we pre,;urno) from amongst the gross number of sub scribers to the statue. We write from information furnished to us by correspond ents, and therefore trust to them for the truth of the state. meat—a statement which, if true, is not the most creditable to somebody—that when it was in "somebody's" contemplation to have an artist named, notices were sent round to the mem bers of the Committee, but without specifying the object for which they were to assemble, which was therefore unknown to all but a particular section or junta in the immediate interest of one or two active individuals. At the meeting thus, to speak plain English, " packed," a ready acceptance was found for the proposition that Chantry should be set aside, and Wyatt (hereafter to be called " Sir Pigtail Wyatt") selected, instead of that graceful, dignified, and expressive sculptor. Lord Aberdeen, a nobleman of fine judgment in the arts, protested against this absurd and mise rable abuse of power by an unfair majority ; but with his three or four supporters the Noble Earl was outvoted. This act, however, of the Rutland and Trench coterie became promptly known, and provoked, as was natural, the severe displeasure of the real majority of those composing the Committee, by whom, and by a great and powerful body of the subscribers, measures (which we shall specify anon) have been already set on foot to obliterate such a reproach from the records of this na tional undertaking. The history of whatever seems unsatis factory throughout the business is described to us as follows When the subscription for the city memorial to Wellington was going forward, Sir F. Trench evinced much anxiety to get the execution of the statue intrusted to the Duke of Rut land's architect and his own protege, the Mr. Wyatt in ques tion. We had ourselves never heard of this person being re markable for any piece of original statuary, but a " monu ment," as it was misnamed, to the Princess Charlotte, wherein, the body of the deceased appears dripping under a wet sheet, as if just dragged out of the Thames—and her corpulent spi rit (a separate portion of the same group) mounting with pain ful difficulty, pretty much after the fashion of a prize calf at Smithfield. surely such a piece of lumbering feebleness and animal vulgarity never yet disgraced a sculptor's chisel, or deformed, as it now does, the interior of a Christian church. But more certainly still, the production of one such scarecrow would in any other country than England have stood as a per petual warning against the employment of the same bungler upon any future occasion. But to the point. The patron or pa trons of Mr. Wyatt were defeated in the city by the casting voice of the Lord Mayor. A memorial at the west end next offered itself to the beaten patty as a possible set-off against their disappointment in the city. Now, we do not agree with. our correspondent, who insists that no motive but that of serv ing Ms. Wyatt would have influenced certain persons to take a part o active is getting up a subscription for a second statue. - On the contrary, we are quite sure mat the gentleman chiefly alluded to has feelings of reverence and admiration fur the Duke of Wellington, which, apart from any oth e r cause, would have rendered bins a zealous promoter of any scheme whose object was to do honour to that il lustrious nobleman. What we do fear is, that the enthusiasm for art by which Sir Frederick Trench has given proofs that h is animated may have degenerated in his case, as it has not unfrequantly in that of °tilers, into a headlong passion for speeifi excel!eacies which he imagines in tile works of an in dividual artist, and absolute blindness to his defects. Nothing skort of such a monomania can adequately account for the pertinacious diligence with which the gallant gentleman and some of his friends are described to us as having pushed the nomination of Mr. Wyatt against all opposition and impe diment. Be this as it may, the provisional appointment of the above artist by a Committee consisting of less than half its proper amount roused at once the vigilance of mans/ of its leading members, and produced a requisition to the Duke of Rutland—Chairman, we arc told, of the Committee—calling noon his Grace to summon another meeting, that the untoward proceeding • of the former one might be revised, and th e c h o i ce of an artist re-opened. To this requisition there were im portant names annexed—viz., Northumberland, Richmond, liucclengli, Anglesey, Lvnedoch, Hill, Tavistock, the Bishop of London, and others. A requisition so authenticated it would seem almost incredible that the Duke of Rutland has actually refused to comply with !—a requisition signed by noblemen and gentlemen of quite as high estimation with the country as the Noble Duke himself ! Under what unworthy prejudice, or what injudicious advice, Ile has done so, it is not for us to ask, or for the public to deem worth examining; but the con sequence is obvious, and the remedy in the hands of the requi sitionists themselves, who have only to call a general meeting of the subscribers, which we trust will be effected without an hour's delay, and the proper steps at once taken to rescind the above mischievous resolution. We had almost forgotten, what justice to Lord Melbourn e requ i res us to a dd, th at his Lord ship made, individually, the same request to the Duke of Rut land as had been presented to his Grace from the other quar ter, and that he too, the Minister, at whose instance, probably, the Queen herself had sent the munificent subscription of 600/. , was loftily refused by the Noble Chairman, who seems, quoth one of our informants, to be in-trenched in his unforta nate resolution. It is tolerably plain, however, that the evil o ill now cure itself. Races at Norwich may be considered a l most a novelty, for although there has been a fine open space of ground ou Moust.ho:d Heath, bearing the name of the Course, no use, or at least so little use has been made of it for many y ears, that a large proportion of the inhabitants do not even know where it is. The sports of the turf are, however, to be introduced amongst the popular amusements fcr the Coronation week. —Nurful ; Chronicle.