The Sun. — London, England, 1838-01-19 00:00:00

hear)—and that it was spewing they anti c ip a t e d t h ere :could oe a resistanc e , Why, my Lords, is it not Letter to antici pate resistance—is it not better to appear to be over cautious than in reality to be too supine? Is not a revolt successful infinitely worse, if that revolt occurs, than the appearance of of being afraid of a revolt which may never break out ? And, my Lards, above all, is not a revolt more likely to be successful (and I will add, much more likely to break out, and if it breaks out to succeed) if you do not take the ordinary, tiatnettl, and necessary precautions in order to fortify yourselves When yoU have reason to expect something? But then, says Illy Noble Friend, it Would be paying a bad compliment to the loyalty mid real of a large portion of the Canadians had we tient out additional troops, whom it is, I admit, our bounden duty to protect in authority and to reward for loyalty. Now, I should not wonder if m a ny of these loyal and devoted and peaceable inhabitants of all parts of this province might be in duced to say—a truce with your compliments; don't praise our zeal and our loyalty at the expense of the peace and security of the colony—give us less praise and more protection— ( Loud cries of " Hear, hear, hear")--and we shall be better satisfied ; never mind the imputation you Wight be exposed to by sending out a troop of sol e':iers, so that you only secure us against the worst o f 8 .1 mischiefs, first a civil war breaking out, and next should it break out proving ,successful.—( Hear, hear.) My Lords, it must be aggrieving to the loyal and peaceful to tell them then se being agitation, disaffection, and discontent boiling over in meets parts of their eountry, that you will not adopt those measures eeNch your duty—the duty by which alone you have the right tea the reciprocal payment of alle giance to you—the duty of proteetelg them, called upon you to adopt—that you will not do that because the discharging of that duty might seem to indicate a want of confidence in their zeal and loyalty. My Lords, this is not, I are sorry to say, a proper defence—it is an after thought —( Hear, hear.) This is not a real, sincere, and but for the respect I owe my Noble Friend, I could hardly be prevailed upon to call it, an• honest line of defence. If any man had asked my Noble Friend a few months ago why he had not sent troops to back his odious resolutions, he might have given one answer or he might have given another to what would have been a very prudent question—l cennot divine what that answer Alight have been, but of one thing I am quite certain, that he would not have given the same answer before the recent events, as by an ingenious after-thought he has given since. viz., that he did not send troops to Canada, because it would seem to indicate that he had some distrust of the goodness of his Bth resolution, or that he had some mistrust of the loyalty of the Canadiads. That is an answer not characterized by the usual candour, fairness, and ingenuousness of my Noble Friend. Well, my Lords, thus these matters went on, and thus they went on with admirable consistency to the very last. Notwithstanding the recommendation of the Commissioners to alter the Constitution of the Executive Council in Lower Canada, and the expressed determination of the Government in the month of April to act on that Report, no instructions on the subject had been sent out—at least none had reached Canada until, he believed, the latter end of September, not having left Downing-street until the 22d of August ; then, for the first time, is sent a detailed account of the new con structien of the Legislative Council. On the 14th July—a day remarkable in Canada by an extraordinary activity—for there are no less than four despatches in this volume dated July 14.—(Laughter)—on that day I am well aware there is some thing said in one despatch about the construction of the Legisla tive Assembly ; but its merely sending a long—a very very long extract—so long that my Noble Friend thinks it necessary to apologize for reading it, from a Report of the Canadian Com missioners. The composition of the Legislative Council was one of the two things the Commissioners agreed upon ; and when they did agree, they always agreed with one another upon opposite reasoning—(Laughter)—and the arguments of the one afforded a satisfactory refutation of the other--( Con tinued laughter)—and they alone of all men, and of all Com missioners, had found out the knack of coming to the same point by diametrically opposite roads. —( Laughter.) That is, not go ing to York by way of Grantham (the usual road), but first set ting out for Exeier, and then proceeding to York. —( Laughter. ) In the dispatch of the 14th of July there is an extract from that portion of the Report, in which alone the Commissioners were agreed_namely, that relating to the appointment of new members of the Legislative Council. The dispatch, how ever, merely quotes the extract, and gives no sort of know ledge to the Governor—surrounded as he was by rebellion-- as to how he was to act upon the only point of the highest im portance in this part of the subject, that is, what men he was to put upon the Legislative Council of Lower Canada.-- (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") But, then, I beg Noble Lords to bear in mind that Lord Gosford was one of the Commissioners who drew up the Report, and it was possible—barely possible—that he might have a copy of that Report.—(Hear, and laughter.) But my Noble Friend, for the greater security, thought it necessary that he should send the Noble Lord a portion of the report, lest, per chance he might not be in possession of the whole.—( A laugh. ) The names of the peasons to be put upon the Council were not sent out until the 22d of August, and could not be re ceived there until the end of September, when it was too late, as the country was than organised in opposition to her Ma jesty's Government, not in a narrow and confined sense, but an extensive military, civil, and police organization.—( Hear.) It was then too late to think of soothing the people by put ting proper men upon the Council.—(Hear, hear.) They herd already their pacilicators—ainiables compogiteurs—and their police. —( Hear.) It appears that promises had been given Mind before the demise of the Crown, which were never kept —(Hear, hear)--hopes had been held out which were never realized—Bills were to be passed which, in point of fact, never Were even as much as proposed.—( Hear, hear.) In the Meantime the revolt took place—blood was spilt—and the Province was involved in civil war. No such Bills as were promised before the demise of the Crown have been introduced ever since Parliament re-assembled ; but an entirely new Bill has been introduced to meet entirely new circumstances. But if we ask the question—why was no such Bill as my Noble Friend promised in these dispatches brought in within the last six months ? Well, the reason is this—here we find it thus given in the Report of the 14th of July._..( Hear, hear.) " Much as they have always lamented the necessity of adopt ing such a measure under any circumstances, they would at the present moment feel a peculiar reluctance in resorting to it, as they would deeply regret that one of the first legislative acts of the reign of her most gracieus Majesty should carry even the semblance of an ungracious spirit towards the repre sentatives of her Majesty's loyal and faithful subjects in that Province." If, then, " even the semblance of au ungracious spirit towards the representatives of her Majesty's most loyal subjects," condemned in such a manner, what thinks my Noble Frient of pursuing such a course as to excite the reality and the spirit of resistance ? Does he not think that it would have been better to have avoided their empty compli \ Merits, meaning nothing, and to have at once proceeded to dis charge the imperative duty vt:sich lie had to perform? I should have thought that instead of complimenting his Royal Mistress in such a clumsy fashiore it would have been better to have called upon her to protect her loyal subjects, and to have preserved the peace by pursu ing such a course, as under her predecessor they had ei - elertakep to ado t*— (Cheers. ) My Noble Friend says in hls dispatch,' They would deeply regret that one of the.first l egislative Acts of the reign of her most gracious Majesty should carry even the semblance cf an ungracious spirit." Were not, then, the dilatory proceedings which are disclosed in these despatches deserving of blame ? Did not such wealt tess and vacillation and want of energy as marked the whole Proceedings, and which must of necessity almost ensure dissa tisfaction, breaking out into disaffection, and from di sa ff ec ti on leading to ' revolt and the shedding of the blood of her Majes tY's subj ec t s —did not a ll t hi s exc i te my N o bl e Friend's re gret?—(Cheers.) We have been told that at the b eg i nn i ng o f a new reign we should not disturb the mind of the monarch and that the rose-leaf on the royal couch should riot be ruffled. Put, then, should the dying couch of the monarch he so dis turbed? Ought his last moments to be vexed and liar ra"ed by tine consideration of measures harsh, penal, and B d "ere ?---( Hear, hear, hea r .) W a s this the reas o n wiry _u o rin g the last six weeks of his late Majesty's reign, my ble Friend and his colleagues did not follow up their own resolutions ? My Lords, I sly this is a delicate and perilous argument. It is 'resorted to for the sake of justifying the Ministers at the expense of the Monarchy, and of the Monar °lteal Constitution.—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") I know nothi ng of the last hours of one reign, or of the dawn of a new rei gns, which c an diminish or lessen the responsibility of the e "isers o f t h e C rown , or excus e them from doing their duty .0 the Crown, be that duty of a harsh and violent, or of a Peaceful and conciliatory nature.—( Hear, hear.) Beware, I say, how you advance this argument against the l'ifonarehy, a in favour of another form of Government.—( Great sensa tion Oil the Opposition side.) This is not my argument—it is not I that am to blame.—[ Here the Noble arid Learned Lord tu r ned r oun d to the Ministers and said with great emphasis , 1; r° l ‘ are they; and this dispatch (striking the dispatch b et ween his hands)—thi s di s p a t c h i s the authority, whence will derived a text, upon which commentators will not be wanting, , - `," S tillness on both sides, remarkable after the excitement Trion was manifested on the Oepesition during the other and less ti tillated parts of the speech.] But, my Lords, these were ho t the true reasons of the vacillation and delay. The real rea son oozes o ut a few p ages f ur th er on i n the volume be'ore m e_; My Noble Friend, in his next dispatch to Lord Gosford, 1 . Y% " In my dispatch of th e 29th o f J une I apprised your ddoethat i n consequence o f t h e d em i se o f the Crown, and , 5 approachi ng di sso l u ti on o f P ar li ament , it h a d been re fc'ved to propose to the House of Commons a vote of credit tl ° ,,r the advance by way of loan, out of the funds of this coun ty' Of a sum of money adequate to the payment of the arrears t t tl e to her Majesty's civil servants in Lower Canada." Thus It a PPears, then, that the Government determined to give up 4b e i eighth, which was the most harsh, insulting, and objection s. e , of their resolutions, and to furnish the money that was e Ntdred for the payment of salaries out of the pockets of the e eto „Pie ou this side of the water. But my Lords, we (ironi- C oi l) are now in our full vigour--( A laugh)—when by ting T 4 c l stroke of ecohomy we are performing the crowning of impotence.—(Cries of " hear, hear," and a laugh.) e time had passel when it was right to pause and de its rate—( H ear , h ear )--f or no reasona bl e h o p e cou ld p resen t 4 t e lf of s ecur i ng tranqu illity by i rreso l u ti o n —(H ear .) F or r . Ile see—in a subseque n t pert of this dispatch, my Noble h s lend say s, Without too far indulging hopes resting, as I 4 12 t confess, on no very definite ground, I yet cannot..ll,ie ebi'ler despair th a t th e A ssem bly, or that some very consider, portion of that House, may be disposed to abandon the ee lll 'Se Which they have so long pursued." But they did not e o ` i ll disposed to abandon that course. But I suppose the te l t i l !se which my Noble Friend adopted was not adopted on pr:ary grounds, and therefore I suppose not abandoned te a ," any but extraordinary grounds. Indeed he knew lib:A retreat from it would be inconsistent with hie most de rate sense of duty, and therefore he deprecated every ale. e, ranee of vacillation.—( Hear, hear, and a laugh.) Did tj Noble Friend really suppose that his vacillations would de. rt he disaffected from their projects? The reasons whits)) these dispatches furnish, and the arguments which my Noble Friend advances in them, arc triumphant in favour precisely .if that bee of conduct which my Noble Friend never once pursued.—( Hear, hea-, and a laugh.) But the dispatch I hold in my hand furnishes the most marvellous sample of the vacillation that seems to have pervaded the whole of their pro ceedings. They passed their Resolutions—they resolved to seize the money of the Canadians_and they resolved th a t there should be no vacillation. But mark ! what did they g,:s why, they cast this resolution from their minds, and they resolve again —what? Why, that the money should not be taken from the Canadian chest, but from the pockets of the good people of England.—( Hear, hear.) It would really appear as if some g reat c h ange had come over the senses of my Noble Friend just at this time, which, if it ' did not deprive him of his ordinary faculties, at any rate lulled I him into some sweet sleep, or kind of trance, such as we are told by physicians renders people insensible to the impressions of the objects by which they are surrouuded.—( A laugh.) Could this hare arisen f. orn the deep grief into which my Noble Friend and his Colleagues were plunged, at the decease of their kind and generous Master ?,f Laughter. ) Bet that grief must have had its day and its hour—it ie not in the na sure of grief to last fop ever. Why did the trance continue, then, nearly up to this time? Oh I doubtless, its continuance must have been occasioned by the accession of their late Mas ter's illustrious successor---( Hear)_which prolonged the pause into which grief had plunged them : and the sleep now appears to have been continued by something inexpressibly delicious, which most have influenced them.—( Laughter.) Or could it be that the Whig party not having sat down to the banquet of royal favour for nearly a century—could it he that they sat down with such an eager appetite, the natural result of so lone' t' abstinen ce , i t was i mposs i ble for them in such a state of unu sual pleasure to bring their faculties to bear upon points so distant as the affairs of Canada, or so trifling and unimportant as the well-being and tranquillity of the most important co lony of the Crown, or so trivial of the peace as this country, possibly of the world ? If all were in jeopardy, nothing could rouse them from their luxurious stupor. I put the query— I ask the question—l am unable myself to solve it. I may indeed have hit upon the solution, but of this I am certain, that to that solu tion I am led by those passagez of the despatch which spoke of the demise of the Crown and the accession of the new Sove reign. They were not even roused by the dissolution which of necessity came after the demise. Indeed, the dissolution had something to do with the neglect of the colonial affairs. It was immaterial whether the Bill founded on the resolutions was brought in at the end of July or the beginning of August, for there was ample time to pass it. The resolutions upon which it was founded had passed, and the passing of the Bill was a matter of course. Indeed, in this House, my Noble Friend knows }mean do as he likes—(Laughter) —l mean, my Lords, when he does wrong..—(Much laughter.) Ille se jactat in atria. Ido not say that you would let him do much to advance the interests of the people, but only let him invade their rights and he is sure to find you every way indulgent— ( Renewed laughter)—for I must do you the justice to say that you are never unwilling to give your support to what aro called vigorous measures. Therefore I cannot connect the dissolution of the late Parliament with the ladies of which I complain. I believe the truth is, that the Minister hoped to procure by a dissolution an increase of not less than fifty to his majority, and I do not think that he ever suspected that this imaginary incr ease wou ld b e changed into an addition of ' fifteen to the number of his opponents.—( Hear, and laughter.) But my Noble Friends determined to have the dissolution at all hazards. It was not justice to Canada, it was not justice to the people of this country, that influenced the dissolution, but it was the peculiar situation of Ministers that made them think that it would prove beneficial to them. It was for I some reason of this kind that a certain official—l do not know what kind of quarter-master-general out of doors— thought that it was expedient that the dissolution should take place on a particular. .day, not one day sooner or one day later, but at a certain specific period, and the conse quence was that matters of all kinds were either got rid of or postponed that this might happen. When it was deter- I mined upon it appeared to afford unusual satisfaction to my Noble Friends and their retainers. As to my Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack,' never saw upon his countenance such an unwonted and unaccustomed expression of hilarity as when he heard of the determination.—(Great laughter.) He was giving judgment at the time on a very important question, involving the gravest considerations, and the determination of which would serve as a precedent. My Noble and Learned Friend the Lord Chief Justice had delivered his opinion on the subject, and expressed his doubts on the matter. My Noble and Learned Friend then rose and moved that the judg ment in the case should be affirmed, by which a question would be set at rest which had been greatly litigated, and which was a matter of considerable importance. Having in the first place given a reason for the course he took, which was no reason whatever, as every lawyer was aware— ( A laugh)—he cited some cases ; but while my Noble and Learned Friend was in the midst of his judgment, he was accosted by my Noble Friend the Lord Privy Seal, who was then in his robes, who doubtless said something to him in a whis per as to the necessity of putting an end to Parliament. Instead, therefore, of going on with his judgment, my Noble and Learned 'riend at once concluded with moving that the judg ment of the Court below he affirmed. My Noble and Learned Friend then at once retired, and shortly after took his seat as a Commissioner to give the Royal Assent tc certain Bills.—( A laugh.) I was most anxious that the dissolution should be postponed for a day or two, to allow me an opportunity of giving judgment in some appeal cases which I had heard, and in which I was fully prepared to give judgment. I more than once implored the Government to postpone the dissolution on this account from the Monday until the Tuesday, so as to save the parties from the ruinous expense of litigation in the shape of further appeal. I repeat I was ready to give judgment, and I was anxious to do so, as I knew that the whole expense which had already been occasioned, the par ties would be exposed to again, if I should happen to die in the interim before the meeting of the new Parliament. This I think was a sufficient reason ; but there was also the ad ditional reason of the evil that always arises from the post ponement of decisions, till the year after the case has been heard. It was, however, said that it was utterly impossible to grant my request, as the dissolution must needs take place on the day that had been named. The object of this, no doubt, was that certain election purposes should be attained, and that, therefore, the dissolution could not be postponed for even one day. On this point I find something in one of the four dispatches of my Noble Friend, of the date of the 4th of July, which confirms the view I have taken on the subject. I an, therefore, justified in saying that the dissolution of Par liament had some share in taking the attention of the Govern ment from Canadian matters. It took all men's minds from the subject of Canadian affairs, and fixed their attention upon matters nearer home. My Lords, the picture, then, which these papers present to the minds of your Lordships is cer tainly not very much calculated to raise i,s your estimation the capacity, the Statesmanlike habits, and firmness of my Noble Friends. I do nut mean to say that you will not find here many instances of great dispatch amounting even to rapidity; Ido not say that the volumes before me do not afford proof of much deliberation, delay, pausing, and considera tion ; I do not say that you will not find many instances of important suggestions end mature reflections ; we have both the " consu/to" and the " mature . facto"—but the misfortune is, that they occur at the wrung time and in the wrong place. You have deliberation applied to the execu tion. You have rapidity applied to the deliberation. The head is hot ; the hand is paralysed. There is no want of haste when you are called upon to adopt resolutions which were sufficient of thews. Ives to throw the whole country into a flame—there is no want of delay when you have to carry those resolutions into effect.—(" Hear," and a laugh.) You pause when any thing calls upon you to act with rapidity—you never begin to falter until all faltering, even for the twinkling of an eye, is ealeule ted to throw the whole of Canada into danger—you then matiffeet 4 disposition for tranquillity at a time when pausing and hesitation arcs most dangerous—you appear supine and hesitating at a time when the reest vigorous exertions are called for and should he resorted to if you der sire success, If I referred to all that I had met with in the history of oar own time, or in the history of by-gone ages, I could not mention a more remark able instance than the present of the truth of the ob servation of the old Swedish Chancellor Oxenstiern. who said, "Mi ffli, disco yuautula prudentia orbis regitur." My Lords, I cannot sit down without expressing my ("pinion touching the conduct of the other party in this disastrous struggle. My Lords, I would advert for a moment to the language which has been employed by my Noble Friends to wards those who have set themstelves in opposition to the law. My Lords, I need not defend myself against so absurd a charge as that of being disposed to vindicate or abet any who have rebelled against the laws of the empire. But, my Lords, we are talk iog of the crimes of those p ersons w h en we l av i s h a ll t h e epi thets which can be dictated by angry feelings upon those who have been goaded by the conduct of the Government to re sistance, doee it not become us to reflect that they are not here, and that they are not represented here ? Nor have they any advocate here to defend theist in their absence, and in no part of these papers is one single word to be found, nor, in deed, could be expected, regularly, of defence, or vindication, or extenuation of their conduct.—( Hear, hear, hear.) And, surely, , my Lords, with a ll can did, not to say generous minus, I n ee d not say ono wor d f urt h er i u order to prove how strong is th e i r c l a i m t o eve ry kind furs bearanee—to every allowance that it is possible for charity to to make.—( Hear.) Then, my Lords, I hold those deeply re sponsible who have not sent over an overwhelming force, to make resistance hopeless; and therefore render it impossible. After having been goaded to resistance by maltreatment, they have been tempted to rebel by seeing the province unproeided with a sufficient force to put down all insurrection.—( Hear.) Who is it, I ask—from what quarter it—that th e C a nadians have learnt the lesson of resistanc e ? Y on ceclaiin aga i nst their resolt, but have you not h ear d of 20,00/. taken in spite of their teeth—without their votes—against their resolutions—by the imperial Parliament, who had nothing to tic with it. You say indeedeesand this is the argument of my Lord Gosf rd —that this people pay rin ta“‘;.—that they enjoy a valuable boon in the way of trade with this eountry—ehat they have a revenue appropriated to their local purposes—and tented at havin g 20,000/ consent Qn of elicit. representatives. cannot without much the ' Twenty thouiieted pounds taken wi t h out the coneeet ef the that tak e they n rrom them people's representatieea I Why, what was i t t h at Hemp lien resisted but the payrnetit of twenty shillings, taken frosts hirn without his consent, or tee gunsent of his representatives, ,4 1 0 by that resistance he has won for letese/f an imperishable name, Hf which the Plantageeets and the Guelphs envy him the pOSSek;3l44i . . In resisting oppression, therefore, in resisting the taking of their , st on ey without the consent of their r epresentatives, I say we are the ceimieals who have set the exampits to thp C anadians. My Lords, throw this out in mitigation, in extenseetion, god with a view weetee ' n hove all others is now nearest my he avt — ot isreQl ,Tip g the shedding ninsee drop more blood than strict justice at so lutely and rigorouslydenientteeesud of calling upon those into whose hands the sword of justice is committed, to sheathe it from the instant that the rebel has submitted.—( Hear, hear.) I am How called upon, my Loi ds, by the speech of my Noble Friend, to enter into a much wider field (which, however, I decline doing), to look forward to the system of Government which is proposed to be established in Canada. My Lords, it it proposed that a Governor should rule without any re. striction whatever, for three years, while all the time we are told that it is but one province out of eight that is disaffected. Why, then, my Lords, is the Constitution, net only of 1831. that is already suspended, but that of 1791--Mr. fill's Cons itution is to be suspended, because one-eighth part of the colony has rebelled ? This may be rigour, —hut it is not justice :—it is an attempt to supply the want of activity which has hitherto characterised the con duct of the Government by an excess of morbid vigour —it is not consistent with common sense, or justice. It is strange, my Lords, to see how the vigour of my Noble Friend works. Sometimes it is cenfined to the corner of a province ; sometimes it spreads over a whole colony. Just as it suits the argument of my Noble Friend, the whole of Lower Canada is disaffected, or one little district. When it is asked why troops were not sent out in sufficient numbers to prevent any insurrection—" Oh! the people of Canada are a paragon of loyalty—we would not distrust them—we would not for the world appear to distrust them."—(Hear, hear.) But when the question comes—abeut mulcting, the Canadian Constitution, governing Canada without the representatives of the people—taking the money of the people without the concurrence of the representatives—and governing without law, or making laws which I admit to be arbitrary, and which have been called despotic—then the whole face of the argu ment is changed, and the rebellion is spread over the whole colony.—( Hear, hear.) My Lords, let me ask, if the colony is so disaffected as to afford any justification for suspending the Constitution, and sending a Governor out to rule lawlessly, what justification has the Government for leaving the colony without any troops ?—( Hear, hear.) My Lords, I do not think that this question will be answered. It seems that this Constitution, this despotic form of Go vernment, is only the precursor of another arrangement. Whether the Noble Lord has himself formed any distinct and accurate idea of what the new form is to be I know not, and my mind is so dull that I cannet conceive what new steps will he hereafter taken. It is true that there is a proposition that a certain number of persons shall be elected from the various provinces to assist the Governor, but how those representatives are to act, or what measures are to be adopted, I cannot discover. But above all how the repre sentatives are to be appointed is the question which is of the greatest interest, and which is involved in the greatest mystery.--( Hear, hear, hear.) I could easily imagine in me own mind a plan which could be sketched out; but what will be the use of having people from the country to assist the Governor, unless he is instructed to conciliate the people ? Well, but then supposing these representatives are to be chosen by the electors, is it that those 447,000 persons by whom formerly the rebellious Parliament was elected are now to choose the ten persons who are to be employed in the government? Can any one do otherwise than see that the persons selected must be of the same class as those whose con duct has been complained of; that they will be men who will follow upon the heels of Mr. Papineau, and who will imme diately call out for the establishment of an elective council? Is:the Governor to have the power to select the people who are to be sent to his assistance, and will those gentlemen only whose opinions suit his views be appointed ? Or are writs to be sent to those districts only which are known to support the views of the Government, and are those whose opinions are known to be of a contrary nature to be excluded ; If such is to be the case, my Lords, I tell your Lordships fearlessly, that it is the greatest mockery that can be imagined. It will be much better to say, that the Governor should rule front no in structions whatever.—( Cheers. ) It will be better to leave him to his own resourtes to govern as he likes, and to issue 'recepts as our Kings formerly did.—(Cheers.) These are questions which must arise, and which must be answered. I therefore say, my Lords, that no benefit whatever that I can see will result from the abolition of the Constitution. I cannot but see, that the greatest possible injusticeand discord willarisefrom the abolition of the constitution—the suspension of the constitu tion—for i f you suspend it you abolish Cheers.) My Lords, I have already said that Pe shall not enter further into the plan at present. It certainly is most obscure at present. I shall not enter into the history of the particular disasters of this civil war, but I have heard what I hope, and what I sin cerely believe, that it has already reached its termination. No thanks to the vigilance of the Home Government, but to the colonists themselves—left to their own resources—who have, without the assistance of the wisdom of the Home Go vernment to guide them, or force to help them, but armed by their own wisdom, and inspired by their own zeal and loyalty, have succeeded in putting down the revolt and restoring peace.—( Cheers.) Then comes the pitiful question with respect to the address ; and on looking at it I find it is the same as the one that was agreed to in 1775, even in the very order of its topics. I was quite surprised when I heard it read, because I understood my Noble Friend to state that it was perfectly different from that of 1775. I have often heard that the language of official documents carries itself from one Administration to another—( Hear, hear, and laughter) —and certainly that is the case in the present instance ; for if my Noble Friend, instead of being a novice in such matters, had been horn in Whitehall, and bred in Downing-street, he could not have more glibly given such a positive and unqualified denial to the statement that_ die address which had been moved was the same with that of the year 1775.—(Cheers.) In the Address of 1775 there cer tainly is a passage which it would hardly suit the Ministers of the present day to introduce into their Address. In 1775 the Parliament took upon itself to bear testimony to the tact that the Executive Govern:nent of Great Britain had borne with much temper the resistance which the! Crown hail expe tienced in North America. The authors of the eight resolu tions durst not say that.—(Cheers.) The House, in 1773, expressed itself grateful to his Majesty for conveying to it the information which it had received, and then comes the part which is omitted in the present Address ; for it goes on to say' that, when they considered with how much tem per and moderation his Majesty and the Houses of Par liament had supported the laws and the Constitution, they ever should be ready to pay' attention to any real grin , - ances of the subjects of his Majesty, and would stand by hi, Majesty in all cases of rebellion to maintain the just rights of his Majesty and the two [louses of Parliament. There the two Houses of Parliament were alluded to, but is the present address me content ourselves with declaring our willingness to support her Majesty only. But in reference to this subject Mr. Burke said—and I beg to remind your Lordship of the circumstance—Mr. Burke said Put down the rebels —con quer them, but subduing is not governing ; and a province that requires to be always conquered is literally riot worth possess ing."—(Cheers.) And so I say, my L or d s , o f Canada.— ( Cheers.) The rebellion in Canada may be suppressed, and I hope that result before this time has been effected, and the blood of our brother Canadians ceased to flow.—(Cheers.) But ;hen comes the peri o d to try th e statesman—then comes the far more important and delicat e question—then cam e a stet of things requiring infinitely m ore c i rcninepec: i on, beradon, more judgment, and more wisdom than the sup pressioa of any rebellion—namely, the mode of governing- a colony where armed resistance no longer existed ; the plan: for that purpose must be matured before it be followed by vigour and execution—all pausing, all faltering most end when You have once maturely made up Jour minds.—( Cheers. I hope upon that subject the Ministers of the Crown will deliberate at the proper time for deliberation, and when the time for action comes I hope they will not falter.—(Cheers.) But if I am called upon to say whether or not the authors of this dispatch, the propounders of last year's resolutions, they who had failed to follow them up by any one aet of consistency or vigour—( Loud cheers)—they who, the nee ment they find their measures require to be prosecuted, deser :hem, ere the men who are the titteet to preside over that crisis which would form the rcal teat of statesmanship.— ( Cheers. ) Rebellion, it is true, may be met by ordinary means and ordinary talents, a military power, or even one st police may suppress insurrection, and subdue a disaffected or rebellious spirit ; but the real test, my Lords, of the sagacity of a statesman will be greatest at the period when tranquillity is resto.ed. My Lords, I falter, painful its the avowal is, 1 am warranted in stating it, for their own acts have proved it-- I falter, my Lords, before I pronounce that the present Mi nistry have proved themselves to be the fittest men to approach that exigency which is fast approaching,.—( Cheers.) My Lords, do not let me be supposed to be one who sets a high value upon such a possession ss Canada.—(Cheers.) I hold it to be worthy no large secritice ; I hold it to be un worthy of a breach of our Constitution.—(Loud cheers.) Good God 1 what can be worth the violation of the eternal principles of justics?--(Checrs.) I hold Canada to be lite rally worth nothing—absolutely nothing—in a national point of view. I hold it to be immaterial, in a national point of view, whether we net tin or lose it, so that it becomes quiet') an independent people.--( Cheers.) lam not, however, sill: enough to suppose that any nation can be expected to give ul' large foreign possessions to dictation, disaffection, or rebel lion. I never expected to see that ; the feeling of interna tional honour and zeal are against such a surrender; but I de expect, when all questions of honour are out of date—when ill feelings and resentments are passed by —when all feelings against the wrong-doers are subsided—when the reign of jus tice and law is restored—that that justice will be tempered with mercy.—( Cheers)—and that all ill feelings will be put Si) cud to, towards our brethren across the Atlantic.—( Cheers.) I hope then our eyes will be opened to the false pos'tion we are in voth respect to Canae'a, and that we shall be convinced that it has lost us a vast deal more in men, and money, and trade, than it has ever brought us.—( Cheers. ) I say, my Lords, that the loss of Canada as a colony, provided it be peaceful, will be a gain and an advantage.—( Cheers.) Ca nada costs us half a million for Government and del'ence, and independent of the expense of that vast undertaking, the canal, which has cost us several millions. From two to three mil lions had been laid out there in useless fortifications ; I cell them useless, my Lord, lily worse than useless, upon the au hority of a Right Hon. Gallant Friend of mine, who was pay.naster of the Forces. L3r4 GLENELG—Wh o ? Lord BR.O UO H A M-6ir Henry Hardinge—in addition to ti.is, we are obliged to pay for keeping Canada, a duty of ee s , upon all the bad timber that comes from thence, to be coesneraed here, when we only pay 10s. for the best in the world ; for 1 bol4 0114 peltip timber is the best, and it is comparatively near our own d6ore. Sueh an arrangement would give great improvement to our commerce, because it must he known that at present we won't take their timber in re:urn for our produce. Grain and tinalfer ;ampt all that the countries in the Baltic had to dispose of, and grain we will not take for the sake of the agricultural interests, end tiretier kee prehileit for the sake of Canada.—( Hear. ) Titerefore, f4er4i, learly of ppottun N e t se t ,. ought to make up our iniede tO'an Mineable separation of the colony frese ti c e msther country—( Heer, hear)—and by joining that to the other provinces 0 riCr , bbourhuod to form a union 1, THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, JANUARY 19, 1838. of sufficient stability' and strength to ceunterhalance the co7os sal empire of the United States.—( Hear, hear.) My Lords, these are not the opinions to which I have come yesterday, but after long arid careful examination. But of one thing I am certain, that it is of the last importance to this country how the separation should be accomplished.—( Hear, hear.) If that member is to be torn, as it were, bleeding from the body of our empire, a wound is left on bo'h sides, both on the body that remains and on the limb that is severed, which may rankle for generaiions to come. Hence all that national enmity, the cause of commercial decay, the proximate cause of war, the remote cause of every species of discontent, not only among the people of the two countries, but among each class of its own inhabitants.—( Hear, bear.) 'Fhere is nothing more which a great statesman ought to guard against. Consequ ent l y every thing that can pour balm into the wound should be tried. Every thing that can make the separation gradual, that can make it amicable, that can make it cordial, that can prevent the possibility of leaving any rankling feeling behind it —every thing that can tend to that object ought to be held is tire most sacred regard by every prudent arid virtuous statesman. My hope and trust is, that whatever sinister aspect our colonial affairs may wear, hat from the experience of the past a lesson will Le der iced by those who still manage the affairs of this empire —that they will bestir them:elves, while it is time, to heal the wounds which improvidence and rashness, and to a certain degree im becility and vacillation have inflicted; and the result will be, not only the restoration of peace, but of concord, without which last, if a per manent sett l ement of these grievances i is but sauppused f name, and or a th m e o nl'uotreontdt,t)hbaot skinnedhas been ee o n ve in r. - My Lords, above all, my h ope i s f or peace— b ut that peace cannot shall not be effect e d. All C anada calls out for apt elective t i t e e h d canp peace c o e nly be Legislative Council. Refuse it you cannot. They have used' against the Council that now exists no more vehement lan guage than is often used against your Lordships in this country. I don't see that they have used any more vehement language than you have used in this place respecting Bills sometimes brought from the other House of Parliament. But, my Lords, there is a difference between the Canadians and the people of this country, and that difference it is which makes my present appeal to the House of importance. The difference is this—that whereas here a very, very small frac tion of our countrymen have ever even whispered the pro priety of a reform of the House of Lords, and not even the most inconsiderable fraction of our countrymen have ever been able to state consistently or distinctly, or intelli gibly at all, how that reform of this House can be exe cuted without totally destroying the English Constitution -diet in Canada they have a plan established consistent with their Constitution, contrary to none of its fundamental princi ples, introducing an elective system there which is the com mon law of all the new world, and that instead of being fol lowed by only an insignificant fraction of the people, the whole people are with one voice calling out, and have for years been calling out, for that reform of the Legislative Council, If Your Lcrdships, with all the difficulties, with all the impossi bility I would almost say, of forming an intelligible plan fur reforming the Upper House of Parliament, had acted by your fellow countrymen as the Legislative Council of Lower Ca nada has acted by the Canadians, I am very certain that not a small fraction of the people of England would have insisted upon the change here, but that th at ca ll wou ld h ave b een loud, vehem en t, and universal. The wisdom of your Lordships has prevented the possibility of such a call—the avisd:m of your Lordships has mitigated many measures and altered the detail of others. You have rtjected one or two Bills in one or two sessions. The Legislative Council of Canada will not pass any Bill at all whether relating to police, to education, to the administration ofjustice, to the distribution of the revenues, to the Crown lands, to the Executive Government, to the rela• tions of the mother country, or to the relations of trade or commerce : no Bill seat front one House to the other is ever passed by that Legislative House. No wonder then that the call for change should be loud, vehement, and universal; but much wonder, if a cause so just, so vehement, and so unani mous should not be found to be altogether irresistible. It is in vain to send out any one with power to refuse boons and to abolish Constitutions, if you arm him not with power to do that which alone can reconcile the people of Ca nad: ; and I should deeply deplore, if my Noble Friend, to whom the task of accommodating these differences has bsen entrusted, and who in the first instance has cast upon him that most thankless office of carrying out the most un constitutional Act of Parliament that has crossed the Atlantic s'nee the celebrated Massachussets Bill, should not also be fortified with the power of healing the wound which, in the first instance, he is to be compelled to inflict, because I well know that he will neither derive honour from his mission, nor credit nor benefit to the country from any possible means of discharging the dirties of his mission. My Lords, once more I beseech your Lordships to make up your minds to do jus tice, to grata liberally, to improve fearlessly, to reform un hesitatingly, whatever the people of Canada have a just right to call upon you to grant and to improve. By no other means can either right or justice be done to the people of America, or the character of the people of England be sustained ; and by no other means can the integrity of the empire and the honour of the Crown, and, above all, the peace of this country, of America, and of the world; be secured.—( Hear.) Viscount MELBOURNE, after a short pause, rose and said: I should have wished, before I addressed the use on this subject, that some other Noble Peer who took a different view of the question from the Noble Lord who has just resumed iris seat, should have risen. Even amidst the torrent of invective and sarcasm with which the Noble Lord has overwhelmed the officers of her Majesty's Go vernment, and that most laboured and most extreme con cent ation of bitterness which has been poured forth on this occasion, I have not, however, discovered that the enter taised any decided disapprobation of the present motion, :and I apprehend that I may fairly take it for granted that so such dissapprobation will be expressed ; and I trust that I may expect from no Noble Lord any view to be taken very different to that of the N o bl e L or d . Th e Noble Lord towards faltered,n r be h fOre si t ) i e e e c ci o l ul s d ai p l rot a u t h ce e it to bo h hesitated, Iris ecoi l i o el p u a si o o s i e t opinion that the present Mi n i sters h a d shown themselves o be fitted to act in this i m p ortant a ff a i r, with the ma nagement of which they a re entruste d . Now, considering t h .h e introductory part of the speech of the Noble Lord, Ido not see why he should falter ; but but I rather think that in, doing so savours in some degree of that vacillation which !ne has alluded to as having characterised the conduct of Mi deters ; and I do not see with what confidence the Noble Lord entertaining the opinions which he has expressed, can excuse sn me if from makin g some motion to this House declaratory f hi s want of confidence in the Government. However he nay falter in respect to his judgment of Ministers, I do not 'titer with regard to this expression of my opinion in reference to Iris speech. The Noble Lord has taken a very iarge discursive view, not only of the question now imme iiately before the llouse, but also of the measures which have preceded it, and which have led to the present state of affairs and of all the topics which have reference or allusion to this .nest important subject. lie is w e ll acqua i nte d w i t h t h e sub s, many of w hi ch he has himself been a party, and he ;cc k a l? e , ' t, and is well awar e o f the van ious steps which have been k how by degree s they have led to the s t a t e o f t hi egs v unfortunately at t hi s moment exists in Lower Canada, That state of things I, fo r on most sincerely lame n t ; b ut i t , t i h cv taken, vh occurrence, by airy means which might have been ~ i m possible to say ho w i t could have been averted, or whe .Lthdcoptriedts, could have been prevented, or whether it must not 'rave happened in the ordinary course of events ; but I feel some satisfaction, and I think all the °ricers of Government wino have been employed on this question must do the same, s uggested to have arisen from any want of justice t eat, to whatever other ceuse it may be attributable, it ono. part of this country, or from any assertion of rights which did not exist front any tyranaieal or unjust procedings,. b uds nly from the unreasonable and impra,c icable reform whih demanded in the Canadian Constltu t t l; l e o n on by the House of Assembly, My Learned and Noble Friend has made Several observations on the various delays which he conceives have taken place in the correspondenc e ; he have never been fulfilled ; and many has made several observations o n the promises which he asserts were and which observations on the long interval which elapsed between one , etter aod a nother ; but I must say, that he does net appear to ate to hive made out his case upon this point. It is not suffi dent for him to assert that promises have been made ; it is eot sufficient for him to say that there was a long interval without any dispatch ; but he must prove also that it was ne „ssry to write something during that interval ; ho must prove that something beneficial to the service must have ac crued from sending out further instructions; and he must held out, erose, also, that there has been some omissi3n prejudicial to the colony, and injurious to the public service ; and he has railed in such proof. The Noble and Learned Lord has in deed said that there have been some !aches and some n glect which have had a prejudicial effect, and have boon the real cause of the outbreak; but I confess, my Lords, that I cannot recollect throughout the whole of that Noble Lord's able and n discursivedsur s p eec h one single endeavour to bring his tesa —( Hear.) My Lords, my Noble and Learned Friend commented with much severity on some pas sages in the dispatch of Lord Glenelg to the Earl of Gosford, lased 29th April, 1837 In dispatch Lord GI 1 held • thatcue g the following language : « I regret that, owing to the delay Nhich has occurred in passing the resolutioes, arising in great measure from the pressure of public business, I have been corn, aelled to withhold these instructions for a longer period than I anticipated, b ut your Lordship may rely upon receiving them in ample time to enable yoit to prepare for the meeting of the Legislature; whether that meeting should be postponed moil the time that the law will require that a session should be held or should be fixed for an earlier time, is a question which must depend to a certain degree on local circumstances, of which your Lordship will have the moans of obt tining a far more accurate acquaintance than I can " What was the fair meaning of this passage, but that with respect to the time of vale ling together the local Legislature the Governor was better ac quai than nted with the circurestoncea, which must regulate the pe riod any otie here could be, and that Lord Glenelg would ' s ot, in oppoSiti on to the Governor's opinion, venture to give et and nip opinion Was not this tiro () e proper coarse to LO taken, s it not Ire aeatedanoo with Gemmel sense? Lord Glenclg then 'went on to say--" I shall, however, distinctly advert to this point,• in connection with the other matters on which I shall have to address your Loldshi.p, and I only refer to it now that you MT; by away's that it Will not be overlooked ; nri s l th a t yew, 99 attention may be dir, cted to it in the meantime, with a, view to the sound exercise of that discretion whielt it'may probably be expedient to leaye in your Lordship's bands with co n gest] to What did Lord Glenelg sea' i4l 'nut that wo' would rinnk the subject over, and that we wished the Earl of Gosford also to consider it, because it was a subject better left to his discretion and deter mination ? And I think, my Lords, the, ain,mantish it riot env oopoisten s li t a i right rentson'anir prudence, but lhat'it is P conhao which airy feasenahle man'woUld pursue upeni such an cCi:a:iion'. My Nobleand Learned Friend see t mced to imply th at the Earl of -Gosford Would Infer from tllisLde's.: patch some doubt as to our approval of his Conduct; but, inv Lords, it was the furthest from my thoughts to co . nplain of the course w hi c h t h e G overnor might pursue, to gi ve other than a fair and candid consideration to ael his actions, and to extend to them a fair, firm, and unflinching de fence. As to the Bth resolution of the last Session, it is not my intention, my Lords, to re.argue the question. I admitted then, and I admit still, that it was a strong re solution ; but it was a measure rendered necessary by the dereliction of duty on the cart of the Legis'ettive Assembly of Lower Canada, which had rendered it impossible that the most important duties relating to the Government of the colony could be perf or m e d. My Noble and Learned Friend says that we must have known what were the feelings of the Canadians with respect to those resolutions—that we must have known the result which they were likely to produce, and that after what had already taken place, it was our duty to have pro vided against the possibility of tan outbreak, by increasing the military force in the colony. My Lords, lam peifectly ready to own that this is a point which seemed to rite the most pres sing 111 the whole case; but, my Lerels, it is perfectly cle ar that the persons in office in the colony did not entertain any gr at apprehensi o n f or th e in.e,nal safety and quiet of the country ; still, when it was considered what discontent the reso lutions were likely to produce, when it was considered what agitation was at work, some danger might possibly have been anticipated. However, this was a most difficult question to de chic. If we did not reinforce the troops we certainly ran the hazard of what has since taken place, and as my Learned and Noble Friend says, we knew that we could have easily put down any outbreak if the force - had been larger, and that possibly it might not then have taken place, or if it had that less blood would have been spilled. But both sides might have been argued with equal probability and with plausible effect. For if a considerable body of troops bed been sent out, there would have been an end to all chance of an amicable termi nation of the disputes ; it would have been instantly said that we were filling Canada with troops, and that we were mani festing a fixed intention of bearing down the opinions of the Canadians by main force. Between these two difficulties, therefore, we had to decide ; if we did not send our troops we were running some risk of an outbreak ; if we did send them out we were giving up all hopes, we were destroying all chance, of that which every Government hoped, perhaps too fondly hoped, to effect—the termination of the differences in a feiendly manner. My Lords, I have fairly stated both sides of the question—( Hoar, bear)—and there is no point in the case which imposed upon me a greater difficulty in reply than this intricate question which we had to decide. We decided, my Lords, according to the best of our judgment ; and I do most sincerely trust that no permanent et il, that no irreparable mischief, has arisen, or will hereafter arise, from the determination to which we have come.—( Hear.) My Noble and Learned Friend has made another great charge against us. and asks, after we had passed the resoluti- 00 , complained of, why we did not introduce a Bill 10 carry them into full e ff ect ; an d he has stated that , the Preparation of a Bill would have been an easy measure, and that it would have rapidly passed the Parliament ; but the Nobl© Lord knows well the state of the country at that period. ife knOws that we were bordering on a dissolution, ape; •„,c all know how easy a weapon for delay thi s diffiaty would ha ve a ff or d e d . But then the Noble Lord adds, that it did not signify whether the dissolution took place in August or in the beginning of July. That there was, however, a necessity for hastening the dissolution I thought lied been gencrelly admitted ; at any rate, all parties in this Ilouse, my Lords, agreed in its pro priety, and no one raised against it a dissentient voice ; and it was further agreed that it would not have been proper to bring under the consideration of a Parliament whose existence was in so precarious a state any measure of great magnitude and importance. The Noble Lord had also caked what good we ii ;d derived from this hasty dissolution, and he affirms that it has ended in a reduction of our majority in the other House by 15 ; but how does the Noble Lord know that?—( Hear, hear, hear, and laughter.) I hope, my Lords, that the Mem bers returned to the House of Commons know their duty bet ter than to come pledged to any fixed opini:m, but that they are disposed to hear what is said, and to form their own judg ment upon it—( Hear, hear, hear)—and if such were the case how was the decrease of 15 to be judged?—( Laughter. ) We have indeed heard of declarations on the hustings, which have sot afterwards been acted up to, and I do hope that Hon. Representatives have come to consider fairly the pro positions which will he brought forward—(Laughter) —and that they will come to a decision in favour of what they conscientiously believe to be most likely to promote the inte rests of the country.—( Hear, hear.) As to the Noble Lord's observations on the beginning or termination of a reign, I may perhaps be disposed in so:no measure to agree with him, but, my Lords, that depends upon totally different principles, and relates t 3 the constitution of the monarchy itself; and most true it is, that, whether in the helplessness of infancy or the decrepitud e of age, the monarch is per fectly able to discharge the functions of Government, and that it cannot absolve itself front this duty. But this had little to do with the present question. It was said that the resolution which the House had passed was to take the money out of the public chest, and that the course which we have adopted was to pay the money front this country. But, my Lords, is there any great difference between the errors of such a course? Do the Canadians think that there is any great difference in principle between the two measures? 011.2 is as invidious as the other, for each avowed the right to ap propriate the supplies without the vote of the Legislature; and we are charged with imbecility and weakness, such as has never before been exhibited, because we have adopted a mea sure not less strong than the one we abandoned. My Noble and Learned Friend also complains that when, on a former eeening, he stated his belief that the present address would b the same as the one of 1771, I said, " No, quite different." Perhaps, my Lords, I was too hasty in giving that reply, be cause the present address, which contained a declaration to support the Government, would necessarily be in somewhat similar terms to those of the address of 1771 ; but what I meant to assert, my Lords, was that there was every dif ference between the circumstances of that period and the pre sent time, that there was no similarity between the two cases, and that I hoped there would be no similarity in the result of the contest. My Noble Friend concluded his speech with some observations to the general state of Canada, and the advantage it was of to this country ; and as to some of his remarks I must own, my Lords, that to an observer of the present day only, and who looks alone to the present state cf Europe, I am not disposed to say there is not some appearance of truth in the Noble and Learned Lord's observations; but these arc matters of vast and grave importance, and ought not to be incidentally discussed. We have been told, nay Lords, that these Provinces contain within them materia's front which might be formed a great empire ; that they have vast har bours, immense natural resources, and that they are rich in mineral and vegetable products ; and that it was not known of what influence they might become as a separate country. But, my Lords, it is not known bow valuable all these re sources may become in the hands of England herself— ( Hear, hear)-Land our present proceedings not only involve the interests of the colonies themselves and of Eaglets(' also, but the honour and the integrity of this country, its interests among natione, and its character 04 a great empire, are in. volved in the future welfare as, well as in the present seem ity and tranquillity of these colonies.--( Hear, hear. ) It is of great importance, therefore, that we should not listen to vague theories or fanciful suggestions ; but that we should pass the Address HOW before your Lordships, in favour of which I am sure but one feeling pervades your Lordships' House. The Duke of WELLING I'ON—I shall vote for the Ad dress, and with the permission of the House say a few words ott the general subject. It was not my intention to have of fered any observatiens to your Lordships on this matter, but the course that hes been taken by her Majesty's Cloyornment comdels me to it. 1 confess, my Lords, 1 , etill feel very s:rongly that the subject has not been brought berose Parlia. merit in the form in which it should be brought. I object to the manner in which it has laelt introduced, net merely on the ground of informality, but also on the broader ground of the substance of the measure itself. I say tint the Sovereign should or i g i nate every measure which is a measure of war ; and I would be particularly anxious that the meineare should originate in a Message front the Crown on the very ground, and for the very reasons, referred to la i the Noble Viscount in the last few moments of his speech. 1 was anxious that her Majesty should declare herself on the subject, in order that no doubt might remain on the mind of this country, or throughout leurope, that it was the determination of her Ma jesty to assert her rights of tevereignty—that her Government should prepare to exercise their functions for that puspose.--- and that the Parliament should give its aid and assistance. I was the more anxious on the subject, because, even during the present Session of Parliament, more than one Minist..r of the Crown has stated, in his place in this House, that the measures which should be adopted were less t o support the honour an d di gn i ty of the Crown—less to vindicate the law, which had frsi been outraged and then set at defiance _.then to protect a particular party in the colonies. It is for us, my Lords, to take as highs grounds as we can possibly take on the subject, That is our duty—that is our interest. lam satisfied with the explanation of the Noble Viscount on that part of the subject, and with the language held by him in reference to it, And, my Lords, I state nay own views of the matter in debate, not fur the purpose of throwing any blarno on that Noble Lord or his colleagues for the course he has taken—though that course is at variance with all precedents on the subject, whether in relation to America, or whether in relation to Ireland, because I am con vinced they would have tak en a contrary one if the sane sentiments as the Noble Lord had just uttered, actuated them on the oceesion of originating it. l am satisfied with the statements of the Noble Viscount, I repeat, But with respect to the Address itself, there are some parts of it which—. although I do not deem my acquiescence or oppeaitlon a matter of any groat importance —I beg to gatard myself from bonnig► made a party to. Whether those parts relate to the suspension of the Conatitntion, or to any other meter whatever, I hold myeelf free front agreeing to them, un til I shall see the measure Which the Noble Lord intend% to found upon the Address and bring forward to 11-a -liment, My Lords, I have considered those transac tions in North America long end earetnlly, and on a former occasion I had the misfortune to differ from many other Noblo Lords in relation to them. I believe I was the irt,„• , le individual who voted against the proposLien of the Noble Earl (the Earl of Ripon te e believe) near nie in lent at loast I was the only lae.eson who, aigned the reotest against the passed on that eneasion. j oertainly think that that cats a moat uueurtunate measure. My opinion of it thea--,sea 9.)nion which has not been altered 6i-ice—was thqt it vhottld have contained, if it were adopted at alit a: . htuso providing for its repeal in case the prcminse 0: .k.u,er Canada should not adopt some meta to foss granting a Civil List to her MA , or, in oilier words, making a provision for enaWing the V,ing to sustain the keel Government of tae 1(2.\310n was m inion y. That y op at the tits; reds twe e d :. that ist opinion nr,r,y, zinti my tiurther opinion is, that the onalsaio,n of that clause is'th e , use of all t h e diseeatqA sod 4 ati ese that haS'hai.Tened (an4da,. k i orcig, k tota l differ from the Noble and Learned Lord opposite in thieking that the Act of le3l has established the British Constitueon in the North American Provinces dependant on this Crown. I differ from him, my Lords, because it is not consistent with the Bsitish Constitution that the Governor and the Judges— the law and the Executive Government—should be provided for only by an annual vote of the House of Assembly. Tho British Coustituti in, fir the last one hundred acd Iff r years at least, has a!waas mode a remanent provider. for the r,dttlis nistra'ion of the Civil Government of tho State, Arid lens particularly for the independence of the. Juti et, I tidy tkil, that the Act a 1531 did not establish the nritioh tion in those coloetes, but that, on tut contrary, it eltabli,hett something flea is quite distinct f i rm it. It gave a kind tif popular right to the people of the colonies altogether rotzlpi to that c o nf erre d b y t h e B r i t i sh Constitution rind that, Ø. Lords, is the cause of all the harm that has helSPertail tiles se , It enabled desioe.ing indieideaN to entry r'4n titi epoosition to the local Government--ait criebled there to array the popular(' , .„ . agai,est it—it etialded them to tins trt an its measures and to def at all its efforts. These individual; thought that they could over tut -it the Queen's Government by geletlig the inhee were bitentsures of the country asoi.eel them, aria. imagi ne: l t h ey were of s . :ec..lis whoa they aitacked the Queen's troupe But the result showed them their error, and they all ran offs into the tesritortea of the United States when they found their own persous it, danger. --; Laughter.) As soon na these melt found that they were to be met by other men with arms m their heeds, and who knew how to use them too, they loft the unfortunate vi.:tims of their evil designs, thu poor people who had been sedueed by them to rebel eeainst the Queen's Gov, rnment, to provide for themselves, and to sub. mit as weli tats they could, or share the fate which the victors • would Impose on them.—( Hear.) I, therefore, wean the Noble :. Lord and his colleagues against any attempt at endeavouring to establish in those peevinces anything like an authority in a popular awn - Hy, to withhold the necessary funds for carrying on tho local Government, and most particularly for maintain ing the integrity and independence of the judicial establish ment. The thing which is most necessary' for that country, as well a% for every other country in the world, is the rode_ pendent strength of the civil Government, and the indepen deuce, a 3 well pecuniary as fiscal, of the Judges.—(l-leare) Let that be but established, my Lords, and I will warrant you t that the loyalty of the Canadas, as well as that of t i le other British possessions in North America and elsete'ecre, will be quite secure. But if, on the contrary, yo'l camper with that t loyalty, b y h o ldi ng forth to the people, ( * tie delusion of popular rights, which, in point of fact, there, or any where else—_. - ere not popular r i g ht s h ere, or sanction a syste m Is l else—_' ere my Lords, I say you will •, i ch „ tion, and w hit ill only conduce to popular agita knee, commencing in decl a m a ti on w ill en d i n v i e- ; i= • ; .eserrection, re b e lli on an d blood.—( Hear, hear.) It ,rot my intention at present to follow the Noble and Learned ; Lord or the Noble Viscount opposite through all the topics a . which th e y h ave touched upon and discussed this night. But there is one to which I think it necessary to advert. I have certainly heard and read in the newspapers, too, that the Noble Lord had not thought proper to reinforce the troops in Canada in the course of the last summer ; and I must do the Noble Lord and his colleagues the Justice to say thet I cannot alto gether blame them for not having taken that step. I happen to know several officers well acquainted with the Canadian Provinces and the Canadian people —some of them, too, having been even concerned in the Government of those Colonies, and I have had much conversation with them on the subject. I can, on the strength of the information so derived, safely assert in my place in this House that their _ almost unanimous opinion was that there was no reason what , ever to apprehend insurrection in the Canadas. I have no doubt that her Majesty's Government may have received the same information ; I give them credit for it at least. Indeed the dispatches of Lard Gosford state that he did not appre hend anything like insurrection in Lover Canada, up to a very Late period of last year ; and I have likewise some reason . to believe th at t h at was the opinion of the General Command oo ing-in-Chief in that country also. I give, as I sail, her Ma- - jesty's Government credit to the amount of these circum stances. But although Ido not attribute to them any blame for not having sent out troops to Canada at an earlier period, it does appear to me that they are not altogether exempt from, censure. By the statements which have been made, it seems that the Noble Lord the Secretary of State for the Colonial Department thought proper, at a certain period of last year, to give authority to the Governor-General of the Canadas to call on the Governor, or Governor-General, of Nova Scotia, for any troops in that colony which might be wanted in these pro vinces. That is all well and proper enough, but I confess J cannot understand why, hating given such permission, the Noble Secretary fur the Colonies had not immediately , dis patched an equivalent number of troops from this country to frit up any vacancy which might be caused in Nova Scotia by its exercise on the part of Sir John Colborne or Lord Gos ford. That, my Lords, is the pressing part of the case, and not that put forward for defence by the Noble Viscount. 'rho consequences of drawing off the troops from Nova Scotia would be that that important Colony would be left totally en. provided for in ease of the occurrence of an emergency similar to that which has recently occurred in Canada, If were to be sen t to Canada, Nova Scotia should also troops have been provided for ; at all events, additional troops should have been sent out, and the world and the country would then have had en opportunity of seeing that it was the determination of her Majesty's Government to maintain the ground taken by them in their resolutions, and to support to the last that which they had done in these circumstances. It would have shown the Colonies that the advisers of the Crown were ready to support those who would support them in maintaining the au thority of her Majesty's Government, and vindicating the due execution of the law. I shell not, my Lords, advert to that part of the subject edverti.d to by the Noble and Learned Lord opposite in respect to the separation of the Colonies from this country. The answer of the -Noble Viscount was quite satisfactory to me, and cculei not be improved by anything which I could say. Bet I confess, my Lords, that 1 have a feeling —a strong feeling—for the honour of this Country ; and I cannot but believe that if, by any misfortune, we should fail in restoiing peace to that colony at an early period of time, we shall receive a blow in respect to national reputation, national honour, and national glory which will re quire years upon yea's for us to remove the effects of.—( Hear, hear.) There is one topic mote on which I think it neces sary to say a few words, although it is not adverted to in tho Address, and would, probably, be more properly taken on the discussion on the Bill to be founded on it—l mean the esta blishment in Lower Cauada of an elective Legislative Coun cil. The Noble and Learned Lord opposite, with all his knowledge of Lower Caaada, has not, in my opinion, suftle ciently adverted to the strong fact of the difference between the two races which compose the population of that Pro'; lute, or given it a sufficient degree of weight in the coirsideration of the subject. Bat if the Noble Lord would only look at the. d;scussions which had taken place in. this matter; if he bad only real the opinions advanced oy the advocates of the two parties which divided that country—the inhabitants of British blood and the French Canadians —h e would find in a moment that the former are as much opposed to an elective Legislative Council as the latter are clamorous for its establishment. If he considers the subject well he will find that, in point of fact, the British settlers in that Pro vince would les as much in a state of insuirection if the.% de sire of their ooponents be conceded as the French Tarty now are for the ostensible reason that it has not Item% granted to them. I would, therefore, earnestly entreat her Majesty's Government to attend to that fact, and also to the fact that an elective Lrgislative Council is not in the Constitution of the I.3,ltish monarchy. A Legislative Council appointed by the Nlonarcli is in the Constitution of this country, but an elective Legislative Council is not. This was stated over and over in the diseuesioe on the Bill of 1791 ; it was stated by all the great Authorities of the peeled—it was stated even by Mr. Fox himself—for he srid that a Legislative Council appointed by the Monarch was an essential part of the British Constitution. Under these ci eumstancea, 1 would entreat of the Noble Lord (Glenelg) not to loso aight of that fact, or the others men tioned in connection with it, in any arrangement he may make on the subjest of the preeant unhappy state of things in Canada, nor to flatter himself that, even by conceding an elective Le gislative Cote.c.l, he would have the concurrence of the entire inhabitants of Lower Canada. It is not my wish to enter now any further into the matter before the House, whether it re. lates to the Address or to the subsequent measures to be founded on it. My wish is to support the Address as it stands, and ecrtaiuly to support her Majesty's Government in any • measure which they shall think proper to propose in connection with it, provided that they have a fair prospect of settling the disputes between Canada and this country, with firmness, tem per, and no loss of honour to the British name.—Hear. ) Lard 13 aOU 0 AM said a f ew wor d s in explanation, but they were wholly inaudible in the gallery. The Duke of WELLINGTON also made some observa tions in reply to the Noble and Learned Lord, but which were equally inaudible to the reporters. The Earl of RIPON wished to off. r some explanation on the point o which his Noble Frirnek(the Dul o o" Wellington) had refarred, riamely, the situation in which the act of 1831 had placed the Government of this country with respect to the Civil Government of Lower Canada. It was perhaps true that when he proposed the introduction of that Act, the Noble Duke of poled it, and said he (the Earl of Ripon) would find in point of fact that the Le g islatur e o f L ower Canada would readily take the 'so n which the Bi 1 gave them, but would not esta blish any civil list in return. The Noble Duke certainly pro phecied that, and unquestioaably the Noble Duke's prophecy had turned out to be true. He (Lord Ripon) admitted that that occasion he acted more or less under the influence of an imprudent confidence—( Hear, hear)—and under what he conceived to be a pledge on the part of the House of Assembly in Lower Canada, namely, that they would not take the advan tages to b aloeded t ) them by that Act of the Imperial Par liameet without making a reciprocal concess i on. A!,d wh a t was the ,ground on w hi c h h (Hens, hear.) e founded thi fi df.nco ? Not on l y t h e repeated assurance en their part that they wou'.d not do so ; lie did not mean to say that in so many precise words they had made that pledge, but taking men's meaning as to the course of conduct they would pursue from the langessge they used, no man of honour and honesty, after reading the resolutions and addresses adopted by the House of As;etubly Irons time to time, could doubt that, they did lend the Government at once to believe that 11.7 lien the royal revenues were given to their control they would ia return protide a civil list.—(Hear, hear.) Not only had he this ground for entertaining that feeling of confidence i 1 nett;, Lit he had another reason for believing tha they; wokill keep good faith nith the G overnment, which was this, th a t the. Province of Upper Canada, which also had its grievances, at least as long and as fully as Lower Canada, did give, a elv.l list ; and elest was the fact ? That at this mo ment the Province of Upper C a n a d a was in the enjoyment of its share of the R o y a l revenues, and that the Governor, the Seeeeterica s and the Judges of that Province were in the en-. joymeet foe ever of an independent income, not contiollabhe by an annual vote of the lelonee of Assembly. The House of Assembly of Upper Canada performed their promise ; but the Hoge pf Auoiibly of Lower Cauada did not and that was : ' •