The Sun. — London, England, 1810-12-21 00:00:00

t , ;; .~J.~ ;. . i , t• 7 \ l, '." '7V7-74, ; A t ( :1 (i4k,#) t'N ‘,l • r •• - .7 • t om . r &,.,;11Ky.4:„A .4 . • " ' r';' ,TAll % !_ - .4'z•-• , ? .4 ) tc:, ti.e is I% , fr 0 1 I'o tv :Ai 3 3,jye )(!wit - Jicc 1 ,4. -/,'3.l;V;Y,` nu t i 1 year ed CurCd• egy !le re' A tbc iari;y) ,n tbi4 1100 . at pa' fj.} riet)ced the e.r." v^ls ly OU a'acrat not rnied Al - !oly; Ti 10 :y. ob' l CuW' y ac' :Wink tl p trumßEß. 5700.1 IPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. TUURSDAY, DEC. 20. STATE OF THE NATION. About half-pastfoir o'clock, Earl Camden, Lord pr esident of the Council', entered the House. The li l u r ehdance of the Peers was pretty full, and his rdshie immediately laid upon he table the Re-, l'"ft ',ot. i-ne Committee appoihted to examine the Oyill - Physici;hrs touching the stated' his Majesty's 'ealth; _which, being first reed shOrt by the Clerk, 4 s ordered. to be printed for the ese of their Lord. ship,- , 11 Lord HoLLAND rose. He was induced, - lie said, 4 sirougesetese of public duty, when he consider vd th e monientous---avri critical situation in which i 6 t t-uutry w is -plated, - to address their Lordships i l';lti,is state o! tee pr ,ceedings, with letereiice t o een e r e l se: e :•et leen they- shortly woul,l .have dlicuss. In this view, of tese critical 4 '• l to mete uns cireuniStances, he would have to kt seine quest 0:-,s,:whictL'st.ruck him to be of the krealest Onnortance - to:those who, at this period of Palapi:y . cziarnity, were the official directors: of .his testy S Goverinneet. Those questions necessaii ,Y aro.e.out Of the n.,0,1e6t proceeding which those Ministers had deelartd their intention. to adopt, and ' t hey related to. points which would evince to all Lordships I.:me necessity there was for their c al ,ittg to the'mosi speedy, nay an immediate deci -B.l",.ifit werepossibk., upOn the greaiquestidu pend. !rig hetorohote 'Houses. It was not -however his 4 1,(erition to press these questions: in aey nostik Delta of view, but merely . 10 state, what eoutts inena call for an iminvdi tic d- isiun, acrd on Ahich they W. •did consider wnether or not safety t.l•the•pubitc service a decision on such •, 15 ° .11 ,1ts druid be ant- longer postponed.. He would mrst beg leave to say a very tew words as to'the bde of prc>ceeding_which the N;)1.1e. Secretary of , tate had declared - it was the ,tion of Ministers to propose - in deli House'-ti ThurSclay next. They ‘vere to submit - to toe consideration of , the House three- ReSointirins, -overe agteed to by outh Houses' in 1788. Onque first of those, uittortu !*tely, there was not the smallest hope of any nit 4ence cif : opinion (eking place. Tile second re-, slated to tlie right as supposed by some to 4 evoi-ve, in such circumstance, upon the Huuse of U,,on this propos , tion, it • was his in tention to move the previous questioe. 13 , A, wiib tespett to the tithd Resolution, which went pradi. e4 lly to recommend the mode of I)l'A:ceding by 811, and was therefore ii,e.more especially qv ut thy et tue most serious attention of their Lordship , , a NuOie Friend 'of his bad given notice . of his determination to propose an atuen,itnent, substitut iug, instead t here ;l!! an Address to his R , ryal Highness ihe Prince of Wales, to take ni,on him the Civil and y Atl tbinistration of the Government. This Amendment would therefore involve the question of prekrence between the two modes of procteding, by Bill or by Address. These coasidelatioos would embrace a Variety of questions, more or less referring to the fundamental principles of the Constitution. Not'. 'withstanding the great differeiice of opinion enter tained as to the preferable (node of proceeding by, Address,-or by what was called by 13111, and the dn. fetent opinions ehtertained-by ..iNeblelFriend, then absent, for wl(ose sentiments arid authorities re , sheet was equally protbend, and cordial, he 'telt, it in eumberit on. him to' declare, that in every view he Was able to take of the: s.,bjeet, it appeared to him, wit h' refel ence to the genuine principles of . the. Constitution, to-be utterly impossible to -.pro, ceed in any other. itiode than by, the mode of Ad dress. Yet 'betides conside.rattons, it .was very likely that a third oeirtion, or rulejor the guidance .of their decisions , A cifild ' . held by many Noble Lords, and' by nutty of hound and accurate ender- , standiegs,. n itnely,i ►hat their votes - must be decided by the present state of the public service, They .'ere all agree 4 .l it was necessary to supply the deficiency wh - •.ch 'atihapeily existed as to the personal, exercise of the royal authority ; in _viewing this, it 'would be imperative upon their Lord-hip:No consi der ibe e vast diffeience of circumstances between the Present period and that of 1788. At that period such a line of conduct may be witlibUt co;nusiti ing the,happiness or the safety of the Empii e ; but in such a perilous crisis as the present, were that precedent to befully acted upon, it may 'evert tend to lay the country at the feet of the eheiny, It. was this con sideration, so strongly_ pressing on his'initid, that in duced him to put the queries he was about to the No ble Lords opposite.. _They all referred, an :l essen tially, to Vie actual state anal safety of the country. In putting these questions, he was actuated by no party spirit, but. solely by a . sense of put4ie duty. in the first place, with regard Mille case of Sweden, it was a general e opinioe, that were hostilities corn _ milted against this country by that, or by. any Power, that such . hostilities conp not be met by counter hostilities ithotit a previous declaration of war, or a solemn prociateat ion setting forth the am _ fives for hostile pr e ceeciiiiBs on the, part of the corm . try. He should wish to know what line of .coridu , A, • - Would_ be pursued in such a case; _under the suspen sion of the exercise - of the royal authority. He may be told that Ministers mired upon theirs responsibi lity on the nec:essily of the case, but in the present circumstances of the country ) lie thought that spe- Cies of resiiiinsibility a great evil to the State. He well remembered the fatal Consequences of stretch mg the doctrine of necessity too tar, as in the case of the important 'question of ship-money, where the King was advised - that he was the sole judge of the necessity,of the case. His next qUestion -respected the recent intelligence Rout, South America, espe cially from Buenos Ayres, which obviously requir ' ed some important steps to be taken, either -with a IP reference to the common cause of liberty -or the ge ileral interests of humanity. - Another point 'was '~~-'-. FRI DA V, DECEMBER 21, 1810. the present circumstances of Spain and Portugal ; respecting .this, at a former period when he was more sanguine as to the event than at present, be approVed of the conduCi of his Majesty's, Govern ment, and thought it - was right to send out troops to support theinhabitants. But in the present case, when reinforcements may be wanted by the emi nent Commander on that station, he would ask, whether the, Noble Lords entertained any doubt as to the legality of sending out such reinforcements ? From the gestures of the Noble Secretary of State, he should suppose they did not. He had then to , ask, if by their not sending them, a great injury does not accrue to the public service of the coun try ? He bad a third question to put to the Noble Lords, and that respected the important question between this country and ti , e United States-L-a case wherein the British Government was called upon speed 4 to' determine upon one of two modes of policy, either to revoke toe Orders in Coundil,•or to express the grounds or reasons for, their cm-I*m, arc the former of which alternatives ought in his judgment to be adopted, And against the lime that the.Aineii - Can Republic expeCied their answer, an explanation from Ministers Lin this )4.t.:i,1 was the mo'e necessary, as the. ~were about to call upon the House to acquiesc,- in a slow and cireuius mode of proceeding for restoring the personal exercise the royal authority, to preference to a speeds and compendious mode, whici would avert the nume rous pending evils with which the country was thremened. The Earl of LIVERPOOL rose, and in answer to what had been urged by his Noble Frieno, observ ed, that the numerous queries put to him could not be adequately considered as their importance de served, and the solutions given, without going into retiew of the whole 'political situation et the Em pire at the present .period. If he abstained from such a discussion, it was solely from the impossibi li:y of entering into it at large at the present coo meta and under the circumstances in which they were placed. In the present mutation o! the coun try, his 'Majesty's Goverement were fully aware of the difficuitiea w ich pressed upon them, but they eerie also aw tre that those difficulties were of two The momenteus outy aa- imposedam them to consider tt w he the interest of the country, up on the whole, required of them to recommend to Parliament to suspend all_ proceedings on the one :hand, and oothe other the peliod when the same consideration required that the necessary proceed ings should he, co , nmencei. Under these impres sions they had proposed seteral short adjournments, with a view to give Parliament all opportunity of either instituting such proceedings as they may think necessary, or in view 01 .the case; _uort-aethe circumstances of the time, to postpone the adoption ()Swell proceedings. The conduct of his Majesty's Government was regulated by a tud view of the difficulties on both sides, and on that grot nd the 'peculiar difficulties ofethe situation . in which they were placed should be - carefelly considered. • With respect toahe particular points- adverted to by his, Nude lend, he had to say, that he was not aware of any materal injury to tee public service, by the delay, in epee ioo, nor was he a a are that Ministers had abstenurd ftom any ads which tinder other cir cumStauces jhey would not have so advised his Ma, jesty, "and.witn - regard to those measures which the safety of tliecountry, may require, they would,_will whatever risk it inay induce to themselves, do that which they deemed most conducive to the stern, honour, interests of the et...hotly, leaving to the justice of Parliament treconsider of and deeide ueren . 'the grounds of that justification. .Before he sat down he begged leave shirt ity to 'observe upon another ,poinhot his Noble Friend's speech, wig, the mode of proceeding whether preferahle, by B-11 or .A.d dresse Orr this . .tread, every consideracon lee had bee; able to give the subject, in all its views. and bearings, . he was decidedly of opinion that the mode of proCeeding - by Bill was by far the most pre ferable. Nay, he would go tan her, and •teclare his firm conviction, and which he. would undertake to prove when the,regular opportunity should active, that the precedent of .1788 of the only con stitutional mode of proceeding, and that their Lord , ships,, with reference to the established, principles of the Constitution, had no o e tion in such circume stances as the present than to adopt, it. Lord HOLLAND spoke briefly in explanation. Earl GitosveN.oa deprecated the delays which had hitherto taken place in the proceeding-to provide for the personal exercise of the royal fundions. He thought other precedents, besides that upon which so much stress was laid, might`be referred to on an occasion like the present. He instanced the cases occurring in the reign of George . the ,Second, and in the early part of ti le reign. of ,his present. Majesty. With respect to the precedentof 1788, which pre scribed the mode of proceeding by Bill, be saw no reason to retrad, notwithstandingahe yeats, the opinions lie then held ; neither did he think, whets the effeCt of a fiction at 'law was considered, there was any thing inconsistent or rhiieurous in re gularly proceeding by way of Bill. The- Duke of CLARENCE observed, he should shortly .trouble their Lordships on-the present OCE3- sion.' He' was confident they would do him the justice to behete, that in addition to what he most feel OD public and' national grounds on the calamity which unhappily called for the pending discussions; he was must sensibly affected by considerations of a private and personal nature. - ,He felt himself called upon by what fell from the Noble Secretary of State, so decidedly in favour of the precedent of 1788, to say a few words upon that point. Had he had the honour of a seat in the House at that flint!, his con . - dua would have been similar to that of a very near relative of his on the occasion. '(We believe H. R H. alluded to the Duke of York.) Since that. period, however, one great change in particular had taken plane. Their Lordships had ,since got a new act of journals; He was the only one of his latni-. fy t he believed, that had' the pleasure of visiting Ire land, and he would recommend their Lordship, to look over the Journals of the House of Lurds of that country, and by which they would see whe ther it was not the most _convenient way to vote an Address to the Prince of \Vides, to, take upon him the Government of the Country, until it should please 'Providence, and may it be shortly, to re• store to his Throne our excellent and beloved Mo narch. And he thought that not a tnotnent should should be lost in restoring to the country its consti tutional executive lead. The Duke of NORFOLK was of opinion that the conduct adopted by Ministers inexpressibly aggra vated their re,porisibilny. With resped to the much talked of precedent of 1788, his-abjecti'Ats to that course of proceeding remained in their fall force; 'but there did exist a precedent which would well govern their . proceedings., viz. that of 1688, When the two Howes of - Parliament -wisely resolved' to addr , ss the Punce and Princess of Orange to take ~,pon them the royal authority; but in answer to this, be may be told, that the throne was then vacant, and that the abdicating Monarch had thrown himself into the arms of the enemy. True ! but .he would ask, was not the personal exercise of the rola( functions full as detective no* as then ? He thought the proceeding by waP of Bill irrecon cildble with the plainest principles of the Consti tution. He had-heard it was very recently advanced in that House, that a fourth estate existed in the realm, viz. the King, the Lords Temporal, the Lords' Spiritual, and the Commons ; he had bed this in . the way of report, but it the Lords Spiritual were meant distinctly, it must be in the way of con- %Walton. Earl STANHOPE had - to defend an absent Noble Friend (Lbria Grenville). What the Noble Duke Said would be potting nonsense into his mouth. He had said no such words, but - merely that the Lords Spiritual and Temporal composed 'that House. The Noble Earl then animadverted to the mode of pro ceeding determined on by Ministers—the incalcu lable delays and protracted discussiins it would in duce, especially since a Noble Friend had notified his intention to tuove the previous question upon second resolution, and his Lordship induced some risibility by his observing, that was very °ousel for Ministers to ask Noble Lords at his side of the House (as last night), wha: they intended to do, though it. was very customary for the 'Opposition to ask Ministers what they intended, but perhaps they no longer considered themselves as Ministers ! Lord Eitssur'ia observed, that it was his general custom not to deliver his sentiments until tie had hetrd the various opinions of those who were to dis cuss a subject with him. He would therefore re serve himself until he heard the :arguments of the 'Noble Earl opposite, in endeavouring to prove that the only legal and constitutional mode of procecd ,ing was by Bill. In addition to the various objec lions applicable to the precedent of 1 7 8 9, tUeret was the consideration of the essential (inference in the circumstances of that and the present period. He approved 9 f a candid and manly declaraitoo of sentiments, when ditterence of opinion existed between those who loved and respected each other : such was uniformly his practice. He arg - kieci for the competency of the States of t Ire 'Realm to supply the defects in the Constitution ; to maintain the con trary would be to' layourrevolutionary bur the mode.which Ministers meant to pursue was,. among other objectionable priints, censorable as efbrinine 'clumsy system of machinery, operose in its progress, instead of the reguar, simple, and direct _way centended for by those:wtth whom he had - the honour to,act ; and he conclUded by depreciatieg every moment of unnecessary delay, as highly furious to the interests and saiety et the country. The Earl of LAUbERDALS 'spoke generally in support of the arguments urged by the Noble Lords at his side of ,the House, and censured the line of proe'eedin-g : adopted by Ministers; as productiye of most iujurious delay, and only _tor the purpose of retaining the poWers of : Government 'a little' longer in their Wilds; while they seethed totally regardless of the baneful consequences which ensued. • ' The Earl of DAIINLgY followed on the same side. and warmly animadverted On the avowal of the Noble Secretary of State, that lie would,' did wed . - sion Offer, advise . the Sovereign to adopt the mea sures now pursued by his Ministers. He contended that the precedent of 1788 was materially deviated from, inasinheb as Mr. Pitt suffered no unnecessaly delay to take place on that occasion, while a very contrary line of cendutt was imputable to them, and. which was injurious to the best interests' of the country. The Earl of LivetPoot: then rose to propose, agreeably to his notice of yesterday, the appoint ment of a Committee to search for precedents res pecting t 1 admissibility Of proxies under the'pre ?ent circumstances in which the House ware placed. A conversation rather of a aestutory nature took place, chiefly:if nut entirely, 'upon the wording of the motion, in which the Earls Stanhope and Fla william, Lord Holland, and Marquis of Laos dewne, H. IL H. the Duke of Clarence, and one or two other Peers participated, The result %vas, that the Noble Secretary of State new modeiled his mo tion; which tlseti was for the appointment of an 'open Committee„ to search for precedents as abei,e, and to report the result of their inquiries to the House ; +hat all the Lords piesem be members of. the Committee, and that the Committee du meet tie-morrow. The House then adjourned till Satuiday: HOUSE OP COMMONS. THURSDAY, DEC. O. A new Writ was ordered for the B :rough of Brackl4, in art rootzt Qt . Anthony Hendursoopk.;i9, ,• deceaieJ: [PRICE SIXPENCE HALFPENNY• CALL OF THE HOUSE. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the LX= CHEitnR, the Order of the Day tor tailing over tins House was read. The CHANCELLOR at the. EXCHEQUER movA, " that the House be now called over." Mr. Masslr thought that the present attendance was very satistaelory,'and that the t.ali intgbt be die;.. pensed with. . The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER allowed, that asfar as the present individual day was con cerned, there was-no cause of complaint for non-it tendance ; but he thought it was itoi , ortaint to ep- force the call, in ordtir to spew that it was the ins tendon of the,House to, insure, during the 'whole of the itnportatit discuc.i>on which was about to take place, the steady s Zittentiob of the Meru. , _ The motion was - then agreed to, and strangerp having been exclu led, the na:nes of all the Meir“. berS wire called over, a proceeding which occupied above two huurs". On our re-admission into the Gallery, we fbund The CHANCELLOR ot the EXCIIEQUER Mov;. it g, " That the House be called over o►:,Monday se'nnight ;'" which motion was agreed to ; As wa's also a - subsequent motion ; "T►►nt thole Mewl-Aar: who did not then attend should be taken info STATE OF THE NATION. On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the Ex.; CHEQU.EII,. the House (in pursuance -of the Order of the Day) resolved itself into a Committee of the whole H.ruse, to consider. tie State of the Nation; Mr. LU.,HINGTON' took tire Chair. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose, and spoke to the following tiled " Mr. LUSMINGTON, HI consequence of the no.; tice which I recently gave, I now rise to call the attention of the Committee to the consideratiori of that dis .SUOU.: State of the Nation into which tlist . unfortunate indisposition of his Majesty an position so severely telt and so universally lamented by the country—has places it. I feel, Sir, that in doing this, it must be wholly unnecessary' for me to make any peculiar efforts. to excite the interest of the ComMittee on such an important subjeet. When we consider the nature of toe calewit), to , the existence of which our present mdeting is .0 be attributed, it is. impossible not to contemplate it with the utmost pain and sympathy. Egad such 1 malady fallen on the humblest - individual in the land, one with whom kt e were - wholly uncen- . nected by relation, dependence, or interesti_ it would unquestionably be our entle.ivour, first to provide the means of restoring that mdividual to health, and secondly to secure to trim afectionate guardians until war. restoration should ue effected. Had such a malady taeen on these to w h u m we' were attached oy dearet -.es, the feelings -in every man's breast urri,t, I am suree-render unnecessary any description of the course which we strould hasten to pursue. But, • Sir, iu the iestanee of our Sovereign—a Sovereign, who has now reigned so long long over this country—a Sovereign who his been 'on the Throne for above half a century'—hietoed by. his 'peeple--watetitul of their ititerests—wholly and markedly attentive to preserve the true principles of. the, Consittution—a botereign, whose virtues , hate been tire constant and just theme of our praise and adutiratiort-4 say, Sir; that .when such a So vereign .becomes so afflicted, I am sully. confident - there is trot - a heart in the country which does no beat - with the .warmest sympathy fur his distress. These, Sir, are ate feelings which arise in my - mind- on a view of the subject strictly. personal ; but there are others, deeply connected with the . public interekt e which are called forth by a MUIC general view of the , subject. ' It is to these 'con• siderations - to which I now wish to call the atten tion of the Committee. Among the foremost of - these is the fact, that by the present state, of his Majesty's health the functions of- the Executive Go vernment - are in a great measure suspended, and the public service impeded and embarrassed. Sir; I lament that it should fall to,the lot of such an, in- _ dividurd as inesett, from the situation in which I have the . honour -to be placed, to address the Corm.' mittee on this subject. I should - feel wholly in-• adequate to the und"ertaking, ii I did not think that ',could point out, from . the example of those who havestruggled against calamities. of a similar na ture to that tinder which we now labour, the mode which we ought to pursue as the, best calculated to extricate us fro.u- the ititticelties of our situ ation. We are at - the present moMent, Sir, si tuated precisely as the country found itself situ ated at the latter end of 1788. The proctedingt adopted by the two Houses of Parliament on that Occasion—all occasion, I repeat, in which we were ciicumstanced precisely as we are at this pessent moment, will, iii - my :apprehension, be found - to be the true line of conduct which tire two Houses of Parliament ought now to adopt; and by,, tha n of which we shad avail ourselves of lbwlight, l a i d g o lit )i , i6 of the .judgment, and of the experience of our predecessors. I have said, Sir,..that the two cases are the same. Certainly there ,is a difference from the loss of those abilit ies and talents which; • looking with an eagle eye through our legal -his tory, and through our Constitution, recommended' that course which was ultimately adopted in 1788. Still, however, 'there are circumstances which rte der the situation of - the country easier of extr.cier tion than in the year 1288. Firs, that to welch have already- alluded--a most itneortant circum stance—rianiely, the pteceureit which has been . established, and also, Sir, that on the present (wcca. sion no Vesiinn has yet been introduced by which the rigin'atoil duly of the 'two liouseiu; thus 'Called upon to supply the extsttug deficiency; hiss ever been glanced at. We know., Sir, Much the discussions of 1788 were einbarrased, an.l - how many difficulties then presented themseivts by t the asset ticn et .an inherent.right elk% here; a right taA trim •ersa but u 11 3 1., d. , but iene e ►oya l IC he •' OCT, thy i Flee' swift r, 1))' r,tre arid ilivr‘ the rlO, I of