The Sun. — London, England, 1826-02-14 00:00:00

1144 explained his sentiments; the measure, he apprehended, would be at the best 'nugatory, or, if it produced any effect It would be mischievous. Mr. J. SMITH had felt the greatest difficulty in coming to any decision upon the question now before the House, but from the speeches he had...heard, lee had now arrived at the conscientious conclusion that he ought to vote ire support of the measure. The mischiefs produced by the present system were so enormous and intolerable, that however unfa vourable to the introduction of a beiter system he might think the presentmoment, and he thought it very unfavourable he could noise liettgehint pninc ue e cocounteteriteetanger of postponement. Harenalti - not however concur with an Honourable Friend of his who bad condemned the paper circulation en moue. Ile timougbte on the contrary, that it had been a great cause of prosperity, and had vivified and nonrished .industry anti enter- Another I.lonourable' Member had inehtuel that the one and two pound note circulation had been productive of no leudellip to the poor, breatime it shell been optional whether they would or would not take those notes. Thet wan a most in errect view dale Subject. The Country Banker was often the magistrate and the prinelpal manufacturer of his dieteict. IVhat poorman would dare to refitse his note, who would ventatie to exhibit any distrust , except at a moment of panic when every otdinnty consideration was borne down. In many instances lie believed Banking Licenses had been taken out for the sole put.- eiese of issning notes: in the payment of wages. In such cases the perkier' iestunge the notes was hardly to be• called a banker— he was in fact a manufacturer, taking credit upon his payer fat, .4site value of ls hour performed , in ble manufactory. lie did 'riot ilotibt, if inquiry meld be made, twat ,it would be found that many of the imitanees of failure would fall under this de. •scriptinn. Th e . present tteason of alarm was certainly unfavour ' able to the measure, for it was undeniable thas alarm did exist. It war . no argument that alarm Mil not 'exist, because ft ought . 'not to exist. Government, he hoped, would remember the gra VU ' and theadful responsibility of their situation. If any means could tie devised to mitigate the pressure of existing calteulty, it was their -duty to adopt them. He was nitwit 'beg to enter upon another part of the subject, to which much • allusion had been made ; he meant the letter to the Directors of the 'lank. To use ft, familiar exprestlion, lie would venture to lay a watzer,lliat the Right lion. Gentleman,. the President of the Board of Trade, had net seen that letter ile knew that Right Hon. Gentleman to possess such a perfect knowledge of deeeils and usages of commerce in all its various deput e:eels, that he never would have consented to a censure so ut tt gronrellees as that conveyed against Country Bankers ge nerally by that letter. The Hon. Gent. combined ; he knew that the honourable and opulent banks of the cotintry, such as those of Liverpool and Manchester had never lent themselves to xiipport, , foette, or encourage the wild speculations in which the .country had so madly embarked; they had assisted the lexiti mate commerce of the Country, the dealings for instance in cut „ten and iron goods—perhaps even to some degree of excess— ..lent the imputation of having ie any way encouraged the rash, wild, and foolish' projects of the da.y,an imputation plainly con. veycd iu the letter, wax equally' extravagant and unjust. He • 'thought mime benefit might result perhaps from postponing fur. • then proceedings in the measure for a short time, say a month, in order that the irritation of the public mind might subside. He was however so convinced of' the excellent principle of the 7 merieure, that he could nut run the risk of losing it-by any long postponement, whatever temporary inconveniences might be produced by R. In allusion to the question of' a mixed cur • rency,he , could 'ri ot understand why we were to persist in having gold for the exclusive beets of our Currency. when all the rest of Europe were satisfied with a combined basis of gold and silver. Country Bankers bad not been fond of silver on account of the number of counterfeits. The law for passing counterfeit coin was not, he thought, sufficiently severe. Ile knew an instance, where a party went about to markets and fairs with a false bottom to their cart, containing eeunterfelt half-crowns. After a time they were detected, end 2doo bad half.ciowns found at the bottom of the cart. They were prosecuted and convicted ; but the punishment awa rded them was exceedingly slight, and • not ell commensurate 'to the Offence. He could inform the Right Honourable Gentleman of a curious fact: 'there was a tleutif4 coin, a crown' piece, which had never been counter. • felted ; Its etiCatielkel been preduced by the difficulty of imi tating an inscription placed :trowl the run. A coinage of this description, together with an . Act making silver Riegel tender to the amoant of 61.„ would b' productive of advantage. He happened to know a considerable numufactory, . the proprietor • of which; for want of silver, had been in the habit of paying hie work Men by Orders lip; a publican, the effect of this could be no other than that of demoralizing the people. The lion. Gentleman concluded by repeating his determination to vote in favour of the measure. " Mr. el/ARLES ORA NT commented on the inconsistency ' of his lion, friend, who described so much irritation as having; leuto pi-educed by this discuasion, and nevertheless would keep the subject suspended for a month: if it was thus productive •of alarm aim coneternetioe, surely the sooner it.was dispersed of the better. . Ife would tuck of those Honourable Gentlemen who had censured %Misters for bringing this subject forward, hew much more severely, ire well as more' justly, would they have been censuted, if they had attempted to shrink or defer the discussion of a subject, on which the whole kingdom was in tent. • I r tbe subject, indeed, could have been suppressed, if they ceielti have commanded a dead and complete silence, then it o'inhe have been ativierible to wait for a moment of greater eelinnele before they introduced the measure, but the country was Si) much alive to the subject that this course wits ob. viouely impracticable. The subject was "arced upon them, and. if they had waited till no panic or distress remained, it migl;the doubted whether as much disposition to consider the eub;ect might be found as existed at present, or whether rather time apprehension of renewing the expiring alarm might not then render Members etenerally more averse to entertain the sule;ect. In the alternations of prosperity and depression to which the (=mime of the country wan subject, it had gene rally cesa found that the more extreme the pressure, and the ;I :epee the gloom, our reeivery . hid been the more rapid and instantaneous. The revulsion m the present case might pro. batty be of this sudden and rapid character, and if so it might reasonably he apprehended that the reaction of prosperity would again lead to excessive speculations. Now it was with a view tq guard against this evil, that time present measure was proposed, It would operate to produce moderation in our rise to prosperity, and if we were destined again to descend it would break tit° violence of our fall. An Hon. Member heti complained that the proposed measure was no remedy to the distress, It was in truth not devised for that purpose. It wire unfair to judge of it with reference to an object which it never had in view. It did not profess to deal with the immediaie exi gency. It ought therefore to be estimated with reference to what it did gin at, and not in reference e to whet it did not. Neither did it worm to embrace every possible improvement of the present system. Here the Riglit Honourable Gentle man alluded to the proposal of die Honourable Member for Taunton, respecting a mixed currency. Without entering deeply into the discussion of that subject at proem i he might be pet mitred to say, that it did seem rather a' circuitous mode of, obtaining a currency to get giver first, in order to obtain gold. The subject was one of great impOrtance, and his Right Honourable Friend had admitted the observation of the on. MeMber for Taunton to be entitled to great weight. Far him self, he could not but say that the present system did, at first yiew, appear to impose a gratuitous trouble. The Right lion. Geotleman proceeded to say that he did not calculate upon die measure as $ complete preventive to the recurrence of similar disasters in future.' These calamities are the specific evil incident to every gate of mixed currency. The tendency . of everylesper . currency was to excess. The object in view was to obtain some degree of protection from this danger. To die. place all metallic currency teas the point to which paper con stantly tended To check this tendency—to place a limit to its operaden, was the object of the present measure, and one which it could not fail to attain. Convertibility had been deemed a sufficient check to over ileum]. This theory, which was dint of the Bullion Committee, experience seemed completely to have overturned ; the science of the Cur rency continually, like all other sciences, acquiring improve ment from freak Cute and fresh principles. The check of con vertibility is one which operates, not by physical necessity, but by moral force ; it may, th erefore, be resisted and disobeyed.— Th e H onoura bl e Alderman ascribed the distress to over trailing and over issues. The Honourable Gentleman on the other side ascribed it wholly to over trading. He believed it to be the simultaneous effect of both causes. The check of convertibility had been found so tardy in its operation, that it • had become necessary to discover some check more prompt and efficacious. The proposed measure would prevent the stock of gold in the country from being at any time re duced to low as it might eagle+ be under the present system. If this measure wre resorted to, they would be placing in the ..currency a renolatiog principle, a foundation upon which a sounder system might hereafter Le raised, and taking away a caused dreadful distress and ruin to a class which had pecu . liar claims on their protection. He had heard it said the other night that this would he an arbitrary interference of the Legi. alatute,and tha t every body ought to be left at liberty in their own atfblrl. Now it' this question were to be decided by autho. rides, he Could refer to a late eminent person who possessed the . respect and confidence Of the house—he meant the Hon. Mem. bey forty Portarlington —whose opinion was opposed to such a doe. • trine. Besides this, lie had the authority of Adam Smith, who • laid down that the currency between dealer and consumer ought tete be gold ; but that between dealer and dealer it might be paper. 'The same Opinions were also supported by Mr. HOMER and the Bullion committee, and since that period by other eminent omen still living, amongst whom was his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Iluskieson), of die value of whose opinion heshould ssy more 'mere he not present. If there was to be no restriction is such matte's where were they to stop ? When the issue of five and 10 shintliti lime War disomtinued in Scotland, and the sixpenny Awed!)s oritshire, did say one say them abould be no nitric. tion in that case ? Yet there. the principle was the same, and equally opposed to the freedom of commercial intercourse be. tween man and man. The United States of America, after some experience in the use of a paper circulation, had found it good to resort to restriction. lie therefore agreed with Adam &filth that it this was a restriction upon natural liberty, it was one those cases where a portion of natural liberty mast be surrendered for the public good. For these reasons he should give his cordial support . to the measure, and not be satisfied at any delay. Ile was . not to be shaken by the vi sionary dangers which had -been held up as the certain con sequence of the course reconunended by his Eight Honour able Friend ; and he thought the only way to meet any dan ger which really existed was to resort to a Sound currency, and sound principles. While they left it in a state by which the country was exposed to these - fluctuations and panics, so long would their best-sources of its wedth he shackled and uncertain, and every new occasion of their occurrence, would he a fresh shock to public confidence and public order. Fur such an evil, then, he held it to be the imperious duty of Parliament to provide a remedy. Sir J. NEW PORT said, that with reference to Ireland he spoke knowingly when he said that the prevent system had been equally injurious to the persons who held the notes ne to the persons who issued them. It necessarily led to that over issue of currency which produced disastrous effects to the whole State, and pressed with calamitous hardship upon the poorer classes.—(Hear I)—He would say that if any inconsiderable brietch of commerce could not be carried on (he did not admit that such was the case) without the continuance of such a Nye. tern—he would say the evil was so great, that commerce should, suffer the difficulty. But he would contend that all the come , merce of the country could be equally well carried on, with out resorting to these unworthy and artificial means.—(llear !) He was sorry to differ, almost for the first time, front his Honourable Friend behind hint, but he thought nothing could be mote injurious to the country, than to suspend a measure' like this, and thereby keep up the panic which already existed —(llear, hear !)—With respect to the Bank of Ireland, he was perfectly convinced of its solvency; but the calamities which fell upon that country some years ago might again occur, it' the law did not prevent the circulation Of' small notes by Country flanks, which might again rise up, For carrying such a measure into effect in this country, no time could be so tit as the present, when the circulation had been so much lessened by recent events. If they waited for a return of con. fideuce and prosperity, the issues of the Banks would be as great as ever, and the difficulty of' effecting their object would be greatly increased. Ile begged pardon ti►r trespassing on the House, but he had felt anxious to state these opinions.— (Hear, hear!) Mr. Alderman lIEYGATE said, that if he thought the Mi nisters possessed any information as to the real butte of the country, he should not trouble the House. But it had been stated in a document of no small' authority, he meant the communication of the First Lord of the Treasury and the Bight Honourable the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the Bank, that the pecuniary transactions of this country had reverted to their Italia] state. Now he would ask if any man would get up and say whether that statement was true or not at the time, which he denied ?—would any nian say that it was now true, when the Government piper had been that day at twelve shillings dlA count P A great panic still existed, because: men practically informed of the state of the country were alarmed at the preci pitancy with which the Government seemed disposed to na— no thought the whole system of the currency had been in the worst possible state for the 1 ust 50 years. But it was useless to talk of applying fine general principles ) precipitately without being able to fetal the people, who would be ruined and reduced to starvation by the change. He thought the I/. notes the worst possible cur rency that could be used, and that the precious metals were the best, it' they could be substituted. However the I-louse had encouraged Country bankers when they wanted them, they might now destroy them if they pleased ; but let them take care how they did that unless they were certain of being able to substitute eight or ten millions of gold in the place of their notes. It' he understood the Bullion Ques tion, and he thought he ought, for he had paid much at. tendon to it.—(A laugh.)--[home Member said, " That may not follow.") He knew that it did not necessarily follow, since the political economists differed not only among each other, but from themselves.—(A laugh.) - -But he understood that if a sovereign were brought into and kept in this cow. try a certain price must be paid for . The measures of Mi nisters created an alarm in the country, when it was under. stood that they thought the present system dangerous. Ile read an extract of a letter from loincashiree in whic h - it was said that that part of the country was in a deplorable condition. The lion. Gentleman made ninny observations on Mr. retire Bill, passed in 11119, when it was said that its principle would, bring back the country to its state in time days of Queen Elizabeth. lie expressed Ids reprehension of the measures since pursued In very impressive terms. The selling of the Dead Weight was itself productive of over issues . Alinistere saw that the Reople would no longer be content to endure the load of taxatioh Wider which they 'laboured, and they bad no other mode of shifting the burthen than by introducing the Long Annuities. The consequence of an inundation of paper was an immediate rise in the pikes of commodities, and this' enabled Government to reduce the rate of interest on public securities from 5 to 4 per cent. They were not-so foolish as to object, before that reduction took place, to the circulation of small notes from the year 1022 to the year NM during which interval over-issues must necessarily have fun play. Was it then dealing fairly with those Funtlltoldiers who had con= ' tented to the reduction, to repeal that Act on the amt.- I ante of which their consent had been obtained. The bargain with them could not but have reference to the continued circu lation of small notes. which being suppressed, there was ob viously a departure from the terms of the stipulation. The Bank lied lent Government six millions, to enable them to pay off thosefundbolders who dissented from the reduction, and that sum now comitituted a part of the over-issues. Ministers resorted to a most absurd and mischievous Warne in reducing the rate of Interest on Exchequer Bills, so very low as 2} per cent. The-consequence was,' that gold was driven out of time country. When people could get no more than 2-f per cent. for their money, they naturally had recourse to foreign funds, and other speculations by which a higher profit was attained' indeed, but which inevitably tended to exhaust our metallic currency. Ile deemed it most expedient to keep up a high rate of interest at least in a part of our funding system, to save the people the necessity of having recourse to foreign speculations. When it was said that our prosperity was merely apparent,: and that it depended entirely on time over. issues of the Bank, the Alembers of Government declared that it was'a sound prosperity, and by this intimation per. sons were incited to speculate, relying on such Ind. mation: as - proceeding from a source, which from its opportunities of accurate Information on the state of things could not be deceived. The repeal of the Bubble Act he looked upon to have been a most unwise measure, as it stimulated ignorant men to engage in speculations which they would otherwise have shunned es dangerous projects, had they not seen them sanctioned by law. The Right Hon. Secretary for Foreign Affairs bad said that Government abstained from interferipg with private affairs ; but he (Alderman Ileygate) had heard a project proposed in that House for the building°, a dock where no dock wits wanted, and the shares of that ape. eulation were now at a tremendous discount. Me/idlers a the Cabinet were ut the head of a scheme fur the production of silk in this country, and many were no doubt led to join in it front the influence which those Gentlemen must have over the public mind. They were, undoubtedly, all honourable men; end he was aware that they derived no profit front the concern. But it was only fair to state what he conceived to be the real cause of the distress, when the blame had been exclusively thrown upon the Bankers. The one and two pound notes certainly ought never to have existed, hut then they ought not to be withdrawn at this particular period—this was certainly not time proper time.A cer tain operation might be extremely serviceable to time constitu.. don of a man if performed at one time, and equally destructive at another tune. So it was with the proposed measures of Ministers; however positively beneficial, they were unsuited to the present period. They ought rather to excite public con fidence In the present circulation of the currency, allow things to take their course tar a while,'end 'refer to a Committee the duty of devising seasonable remedies for the existing evils.-- Notwithstanding any resolutions that might now be passed, a very few days would show them time necessity of retracing their steps,onclee they must submit to an inimensityof confutoon.— This wits a dry subject of business, and wit anti talents ex. erted upon it, so fur flout doing any good, might be productive of infinite harm. It was the duty of Government to protect the people against the consequences of their own errors, therefore Ministers would do well to abandon theory and confine tnemseivbs to considerations of practical lie could conceive that a free trade might be mutually serviceable to two countries equal in their circumstances ; but where such Inequality existed as between us, with a heavy debt, and the French with a light one, the conse quence of a free trade must lie exclusive advantage to one nation, and exclusive injury to the other. If a free trade were to be established et all, it ought to commence with the articles necessary to- the sub s i stence of life; but the Corn Laws could not be repealed, because if we should attempt to compete whh foreigners in the cheapness of food, poor lands would be no longer cultivated. Our Government had become great upon Vlningelld b ielwe llittictl yw w. o :ea b ware no y w about to be overturned, and could topying the measures of the-poorest nations of Europe? Gre a t r esu l ts had already been achieved by our system, and. he would ent rea t t h e Right Hon. Secretary fat Foreign Affairs to devote his attent i on to - it as a subject worthy the energies and powers of his capacious mind, and of the good ness of his heart. Mr. Secretary PEEL., in; followin the lion. Gentleman who last spoke, would take care to pro fit by the precepts which he bad laid down. He felt flattered that the Speech he had delivered in urging a measure seven years ago, was honour ed by the recollection and the remark of the on. Gentleman on the present occasion. He would now take care not to talk of Queen Elizabeth, nor to travel so widely ne his subject, as the Hon. Gentleman himself had done. He did" not intend to deny that commercial embarrassments existed, and to a very considerable extent; to none were they a subject of sleeper regret than to himself. If the House should be 'kilned to dis favour the measure:: of his Right Honourable Friend the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, they would be holding them respim sible for events which they did not cause. So deeply was he impressed with a sense of .their necessity, that he would exhort the House to pay diligent and immeeliate,attention to the foot ingon which the currency now stool. Was it prudent to let it continue In its present state, when they looked to the effects of the erstein of private banking for the lest thirty years ? He was astonished that the Hon. Gentleman should 'construe the language of his ( Mr. Peel's) Noble Friend at the head of the Treasury, and of his ;light lion. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer. as directed against individuals. When they attn. buted public disasters to rash pecuniary transactions, f r oStered and encouraged by the existing system of many country banks, he had no hesitation in advocating those sentiments. If, in deed, Instead of such language, they had employed the terms used by the Hon. Gentleman himself, such as abominable measures—execrable plans—it might have been highly objec tionable. The Hon. Gentleman seemed to impute to Ministers an intention to blacken the characters of Individual Country Bankers. Ile (Mr. Peel) was willing to give them full credit for honourable feeling; . but yet he must reserve leave to repro bate the .system. There were at this day no less than 300 Country Bankers. In the year 1793, it was matter of astonish mont to Mr. M`Pherson that there had then been so large a number as 228 Bankers issuing paper, which was the circulatit* medium of the country, by which the pour were paid for their I lahaur: Against that system he would deduce the most power. ful arguments front the facts disclosed by those who were its most strenuous advocate. The Hon. Gentleman, who, het spoke, deprecated the charge against the over-issues of F i e vats Bankers. On this ground, that no private Banker was aware of the public injury to which he might contribute in the course of his accommodations to tl:e individuals with whom' lie dealt, inasmuch as he could not possibly know what excess had already been committed by other Bankers in their issues. And could any stronger reason be advanced against the system than this very one, which was urged in its support?—(blear, bear !) Again, it was stated by the lion. Member for Staffordshire, that Bank notes has a natural tendency to increase in proper. tion to the rise of prices. Was not this another very strong argument against the principle of the system ?—(Flear, hear !) —And might not the 'Honourable Gentleman with great truth have added, that as prices fell, there was a correspondent ton. dency to contract the issue of Bank notes ?..e-( Hear, hear !) Their effect was to stimulate in excitement, and to sink with depression : thus reversing the beautiful principle in meithanics, whereby the contraction of one part is compensated by the ex pansion of another. The arguments in' favour of the system, availing any thing, should go to be indefinite extension even after the expiration of ten years. • Yet how melancholy would be the situation or 4 . poor labourer who had accumulated a little euni by Ids toil, on presenting at a Saving's' (lank the one or two peen(' mite of a bank which had failed. It was not designed wholly to impute to hank issues the speculations in which men ettiged ; it was only meant that such issues had a tendency to excite speculation. It was easy enough to attack tip. measures proposed by his lion. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and to say that it was no remedy fur the evils which it was de signed to Meet. But the fact was, it did not profess to be a remedy. The Hon. Member for Taunton had said, that the House waCon fire s and that they were bound to provide for the safety of thoie who were trembling in the garrets. Vet the only ladder—the only measure of relief which he htul proposed was to the same objection as that, which he said went only skin deep. His proposal was tp make silver tits legal standard It was certainly deserving of grave consideration ; but before its adoption it would be necessary that the measure should be well reviewed in order to prevent fluctuations, that men who had contracted fur gold might be enabled to pay in silver. By the restoration of a gold currenc we approached nearer to a conformity with the system of our ancestors. The effects of the modern system were obvious enough in the failures of country banks, Which occurred in later years. In 1310 there were 20 failures.e. In 11111 . 4 In 1814 - • - 29 1812 - . 17 - 1015 - - 1013 - 13 11116 • - 37. and in the last crisis there' were 70 .fitilures. The number of Commissions of Bankrupt, which were issued, were not identical with the number of failures. In 1793 there were but 24 Commissions, though there had been 100 failures; and they ought perhaps to employ the same proportion in estimating the recent failures multiplying the given .number. According to this view of the case, could any system be worse? Now let Hun. Gentlemen contemplate the effects of the system p ursued in Scotland. In 1819, when Mr. Gilchrist , a Scotch Banker,. was (=milled before a Committee of the House, when asked how many failures he knew to have occurred among the Scotch Bankers, his reply wive that within his own memory only one failure occurred in Scotland; and that the failing Bank bad paid iinthediately a dividend of 14 shillings in the pound, and sob. sequently the whole of their debts, a strong presumptive proof thin that there was something worthy of imitation in the Scotch system, - and something defective in ours. The most diatressing consideration connected with the latter was, that all misfortune* were sure to be visited upon the lower classes, in consequence olthe succession of failures. Those who were losers of large sums might from their easy circumstances be enabled to wait a distant time for a dividend but the holder of a one or two pound note had perhaps his whole property-eon. lined to that very:sum, and such were the parties who were at once Involved in else severest necessity, anti after all received the most inadequate compensation. The Hon. Member for Waterford had detailed a lamentable history of distress, as re suiting front the failure of a Connaught Bank. He had now pr e . sentedhis ideas as to how far a remedy was required .1 he would next advert to the adequacy of the remedy proposed,. and, finally, he would notice the objection made against the time of its introduction. Some Gentlemen were of opinion that there would be no Joint Stock Backs formed in consequence of the permission of an Act of Parliament ; but to that opinion he could not agree. He was sure that Fuck, a plan could not fail to be brought into action by those genflemen who /were desirous of establishing a bitter system of things in their own districts, and he felt that they would he actuated more by a sense of the public good which must flow from such a measure, than by any selfish regard to their priVate interests. One obstacle alone was opposed to ste desirable an object, namely, the right ofgratiting a Charter to such Companies. and he hoped that the Bank of England would consider the little advantage. which it gained by withholditig the concession, and the great benefit which such concession would confer upon the country at large. As to the objection that hi the majoriteeof partnerships at present, the number df partners did not amount to six, it went for nothing. So small a number as six implied personal acquaintance and con fid e nce between the Members, but that was not necessary in the Case of a Chartered Company. In Scotland one Company consisted of 100 members, and another of 75, though neither had charters. There were but 30 Bank% in all Scotland, though we had 000 here. In Ireland two Banks had been formed since the Permissive Act of last Seesion. There would be no great diffi. culty iii procuring a sufficiency of gold to supply the amount of small notes In cireulationi The average amount of small notes in circulation did not probably exceed six millions. But he was willing to take seven millions as a maximum ; and even in' that ease lie could not see the impossibility to the country of supplying suelt a sum in gold. Since 1019, twenty-five millions of sovereigns had been coined at the Mint. Allowing for 7 or ii millions exported in the interval, there remained 17 millions now in the kingdom. The prohibition of country notes would call forth the gold, which was now hoarded in the coffers of bankers, partly as a resource tomcat a demand .ot payment, and partly that they might see their own dotes In circulation. The seemed u t lodt t hi nk ' whole, lie thought, might be amply made up in the course of 3 years. • The HOP. Gent. who had E a l p ig o i k a e n n a fi l ra bl t a se h e e m s it t i tr ei v e h i e rc s ta tiL i te oa rth i t existed in the country banks to continue recollected. -.that the n p -t r i i i v e a l te lan bto o k f s had no charter, while the Bank of England had one for which it had paid .to Government. Those who recommended to postpone the question were advo. cafes for uncertainty on a most important subject. Now o r never was the time ; th e opportunity . once lost was gone fo r ever. They would, at any future period, find the passage too wide, and it would be impossible to cross the flood.._ Monte decurrens Velut amnia, irnbrea (Riein super notas aluerc ripas. Mr. ATT V 001.) was not distinctly heard in the Gallery. He argued. that the depreciation of the currency was not to be estimated by the price of gold, but rather by that of commodities. Following up this principle he would ask, how was the price of grain for an average of several years before the interposition of Parltittnent 1 , It %mold be found to be about 43 5. per quarter. The Bill of th e Ri g h t H on . G e ntleman by interfering i n t h e currency, soon convinced every one that the- price was much increased when p aya bl e i n t h e metallic currency prescribed as' the standard of v a l ue by t h e Act for Regulating the ItetUrnto a Cash Currency. Would any one now contend that thi s p r i c e ofcorn, when it became necessary to pay for it in a metallic cur rency of high value, superior workmanship and beauty, wasnot very much enh ance d. Wh atever was the extent of our gold cur rency, whethe r f our, five, ten millions, or even more, this country paper m this country, and consequently w w as e ra no is t e :o to b u e r afr i, e si r es d o h t y the quantity of gold, so much as by the prices which things generally bore in this country. When affected prices, then the Continent would drain us of our hard money, and gold would of course disappear. Th e average pr i ce of corn which he bud stated for some years, to be no higher than 43k. per quarter, during the war lose to SO to 42, to .60 And 655., exactly in proportion to the issues of paper currency here. The Right lion. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said, that out of this state of the currency Efuh prices had arisen, and speculations.which were deeply to be lamented; but the Right Hon. Gentleman should have recollected too, that, from the same operating causes, rents, which it had been.almost Iw possible to collect, became payable; the wages of agricultural labour increased ; and out of .a portion of our population which had arranged themselves in many places as rebels, and sought by midnight plunder to obtain Arms in order. to resist the Go. "eminent, and the imposition and payment of taxes, we had new peaceable, industrious, contented set of subjects.—(Hear, hear o—The evils- which-the Right honourable Gentleman deplored, he attributed to the conduct of Parliament; 'but, he should recollect; that, out of that folly on the part of Parliament, that prosperity of the revenue arose which the Right lion. Gentleman had often aanguinely told them stood On Sure nod solid foundations. 'The HonoUreble Member then` took a -review of the conduct of !Ministers and of Parlia ment with respect to the Bullion question, and characterized the manner in .which the House had called fur the important vote to which it came in 1819, Rs an instance of tumultuous and reckless levity, altogether unbecoming tht. Subjeet, and' which' had disgraced it in the eyes of thepublie. ' What confidence could the public repose in Ministers who could, under such cir cumstances, have restricted. us to cash payments. , The tonse quenees of Biter conduct ought to teach them circumspection and dismay. If it did not, there was little hope for the country as long as it was under their guidance. The structure on which high prices stood being taken away by the bill for resuming cash payments, did it not follow that the pecuniary engagements of the country would be reduced to their former level ? It was clear that the Bank of England could not, now make increased issues whilst the measure was pressing on them which was now contemplated by his Majesty's Iklinisters, who appeared* their alarm to ocoupythemselves merely in debating these subjects, and shutting their eyes to the approach of still greater dangers than those which they had already witnessed. Mr.IIUDSON GURNEY said, in a very indistinct tone of voice, that should he not be anticipated, it waahisintention to move an amendment to the Resolution of the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The amendment would entirely lease out the words, " or notes of the Bank of England." 'This ' would keep thenotes of the Bank of England in circulation object of very great importance, because he was satisfied one of the first effects of the measure would be, the substituting country bank notes as the circulating inteliutt, instead of small Bank of England paper. He attributed the -foundation of all the errors and calamities lately experienced in the monied system to the conduct of the Bullion Committee. In conse quence of a Right lion. Gentleman, - whci interested himsilf much on that occasion, bringing in the bill of 1819, founded on the report of a Committee of the House, a series of inconveni encies arose which ended in the general distress of .189.1. He was convinced . that under what were termed gold prices gene. rally, this country could not hold up its head in 'competition with others. _ _ Mr. Secretary CANNING, before entering on a subject which he felt to be one of extreme moment and importance, begged leave to be permitted to set himself right with the House, and also other parties out of doors. Whatever he should feel it his duty to • say desparingly of the currency, whatever he might adduce to prove the necessky of a reform in our cur. rency, he did not mean to attach .any blame or excite any sus. picion to a hotly of men to whom frequent allusions had been made in the debate of this and a former evening, who were the dispensers andaplininistrators of the currency to the amblic.— He believed, for his own part, they had rendered great services to the country, and their assistance% had often produced a wholesome stimulus to industry, anti a fair rernunerution to labour ; he alltided now to the country bankers, and be must now assure the !louse that; whatever the inconveniencies expe rienced through this channel, they were attributable to an inhe rent evil in the sy:4eni, and not to any ablise of the power lodged in their hands._ Ile begged, therefore, if in the ardour of discussion any thing escaped from him which might be considered equivocal, it should not be taken as applying personally to them, in the seine way as on a former occasion, where he had taken an opportunity of saying, in speaking of the Directors of the Bank of Failantl, that they were unfit, in a corporate capacity, to exercise 'a prerogative of the Crown. Ile had no intention of attaching blame to the Directors, though attacking that system which they were called on to effect. He thought a debate upon the subject of the Cur rency and Country Banks was less inconvenient and less den- Remus perhaps, than at any other period ; for it was his opi nion, that the presumption very generally was, that these esta blishments were fixed on a stable, solid, and firm foundation • inasmuch as they. had withstood the storm which had . levelled weaker fabrics with the earth, and were now competent to those •engagementa, . whatever might be the pressure of the present Period, exsggerated, as he imagined that pressure to have been. Impressed as lie Was with these sentiments, he thought that those who had demands on country bankers would argue both very illogically and unreasonably if they press the bankers with applications to change their own notes for gold, paper °Me Bank of England, or ifthebankers should on their parts apply for or enforce payments generally of the sums' of -moneyahey had advanced on securities or otherwise to their customers.— . It would, he thought, be found a measure essential to the safe ,ty of the country that no hid netanent or encouragement should be given to a .precipitate application of the holders of coun-, try bank notes for cash to the bankers. With these senti ment,' pressing on .his eonvictioa, he was anxious to clear the ground before lie proceeded to deal in detail with the subject. An : Honourable Member opposite had, in considering the subject on a former evening, divided it into two parts. On the one hand, the measure had been described as perfectly inadequate to the end proposed ; or, in other words, mere milk and water; • whilst, on the other hand, it had been 'contended that tits measure, if acted on, would bring a pressure on the monied, commercial, manufacturing, and other interests, which the country would not be able to bear. He had good reason think that both these views of the subject were un. founder. je His Right Honourably Friend had so ably stated his ' reasons for considering the proposed measure as likely to be tiny thine but inefficacious, that he should pass over that part of the inquiry to address himself to the latter. Amongst the causes assigned for the recent monied embarrassments, the most gene. ral was the indulgence in an extravagant spirit of speculation which had been described by the Hon. Member for Northamp ton. Nor had the existence of this spirit, tor its probable dangerous consequences escaped the attention of his Majesty's Ministers, for so brick asAug. last the King's speech containetta passage, stating that there were causes for exciting apprehension with which his Majesty's Government or Pruliament could, not deal or controul. So intently was the public gaze fixed upon these extravagant speculations, such the a.ppeteney for gain, that it was almost impossible to avoid the contempt pf other countries. Projects which were formed at the dawn of day, before sunset had been matured, and dissipated into air; whilst a vapour was sufficient to lift it to the heavens, the puncture of a pin sent it to the earth. The whole of the history of these transactions afforded a lesson which might serve. to repress the inordinate iweetilation of gain. Indeed the spirit was so extravagant, that its tentency 'was to repress itself. But It would not be contended 'that because this feeling on the part of the public had run riot, that our circulation, which was its aliment, should be dantned up. Once convinced of the demerits of the system which had so "beguiled the country, he was desirous that the House should address itself to cure the faulty part of our currency, to which so many attributed most of the late inconvenient and alarming results. lie wag as well as others of his colleagues in office, desirous that the House should enter into the consideration of this subject now, be cause he tt at, convinced, that if not attempted to be remedied and cured now, it would be long ere we were in a tem I per to dis cuss it, or make the attempt to correct past error. n order to clear more fully the ground for stating his sentiments, be must deprecate a practice which prevailed. It was the fashion, as set by the Hon. Member for Taunton, and followed by the lion, Alderman, to fix on those who diWered from them the character of theorist and enthusiast, and then arguing, that es a theorist was a person who would sacrifice the dearest interests of the public to support his favourite passili, those who were opposed to the Hon. Gentleman would of course make a similar sacrifice of every thing which we held dear. This he must protest against as extremely illogical and extremely unfair. He had no objection that any one should impute - to him what he had not said, provided that he did so in error, and when apprized of his error retracted the accusation. But if he saw dint a statement of this kind was made with an intent to found an inference on it, as in the attempt which had been made on a former night to fix hint as having been on the Bullion Committee, and that the trusting to such men as lie and hi* political friends were, was merely commit ting the interests of the public to blind guides. 'When they were warned to bewail -how they quitted the .solid rock of paper money, and trusted themselves to the tumultuous and fluctuating seas of metallic currency,—(Louti laughing)—these were attempts to deceive and mislead, which could not be sufficiently condemned, and which he considered or guments of the very worst kind. He not only did not take the part attrbuted to him by the Ilonourable Member. Mr. BARING interrupted the Right Hon. Gentleman, and stated that he had made such a statement as that alluded to, yet on being informed of his mistake, he had retracted th e c h arge and he now put it to the House, if the manner in whi c h t hi s had been alluded to was fair on the part of the Ri g ht H on . Secre tary.—(Loud cries of hear, from the Oppositi on B enc h es .) Mr. Secretary CANNLNG said, he could tot have corn plained of the mistake had it been, i n hi s op i n i on, uninten tional. The Honourable Member's assurance that it bad been so wits insufficient. Air. BARING observed, he had already made that state ment, and It should have been satisfactory. Mr. secretary CANNING resumed. The part he had taken on that occasion WAS thereby suporting all that part of Mr. Hoe. ner's resolutions on the bullion question,_ which affirmed the monetary system of the country • '• but be had never expressed himself as prepared to concede that the Bank should be opened the next day. The only propo sition he made was, that during the suspension no augmentation of the issues of Bank of England notes should take place, nor did this at all savour of theoretical fanaticism. His ideas then had since been proved practically, for he then thought, as he did now, that a small note circulation could not jointly exist with a metallic currency. So far he was of °pi njOn with the worthy Alderman. Looking to an early period of our- financial History, the period of 1792, be referred the House, to the authority of Burke, who was, either as a speaker, or when he attempted to prophecy, no Winery guide, and In the contrast which he drew between the paper system of the French Revidutionary Government and our paper, he had.well, and with his usual clearness, shewn there was this great db. - titietion—that In our system there was no authority whatever.: One of the consequences of this was, that he had Dent wit. nessed'a'acarcity of cash and an abundance Of . paper . A -great part . of the Hun. Gentleman's speech consulted of items of advances by the Bank of England for Government, which he 'contended had so choked up the Bank, that It me no longer a fit agent to transact the public !Aline* Uwier this head were enumeratet4 the Dead Weight, as it was called,* 8,000,000/. ; Exchequer Bills permanent, amounting to: 7,000,0001.; advances of the Bank to cover Deficlenitite, 5,500,0001. ; and above 2,000,0001,. for paying off the Non. content 4A per Cent holders, together with 1,500,0001. advanced .- by the - Bank on mortgages of landed property. To take up these items in a retrogade order, all of which this Honour. able 11Iember's speech endeavoured to, prove, Government Jiad choked up the Bank with, to its great inconvenience and. the prejudiu of the public, it was then . Government had no more to do with the mortgage than the Hon. Member. — The Bank had thought tit to advance money to the landed in. wrest as a proper mode of investing the money of the Bank Proprietors, and it was nothing to Government whether they were right or wrong in the speculation, which ho was satisfied - they entered into conscientiously. As to the dead weight, he would confess, what was not now said fir the first time, that the attempt to comprehends thing was no proof of understand. ing it. He prefes.sed he did not for one understand the ques firm of the dead weight. Whether the Government made a wise or an imprudent bargain with the Bank was not the question. With what he was now saying, as to the imm. deuce of the . Bank of England, the Government had nothing to do. They sold a bargain whia the Bank bought, and the terms had, of course, been at ,the option of bud) parties.—. The Bank was at liberty to have gone into the market the next day with their purchase, and if they had done so they would have found ready customers for it at a profitable rate. It could not, therefore, be said that the Government was to blame if they retained it until they lost their opportunity. A wise taker of a loan sold it as soon as it was at a premium and if the Bank had done that, they would not have been embarrassed by it, as the Honourable Member now represented them to be. This -ought therefore to be taken out of the lion. Gentleman's calculation, and thus from the stun of 24,000,000, stated by the lion. Member to be hanging On ti le exertiona of the Bank, and preventing the use of their capit4 fa meet the exigencies of the currency, 6,700,0001. must be r et A , ed. Next, with respect to the advance made by the Bank ,-.. . 3,700,0001. that was now in a course of payment, at the rate o f 750,0001. per quarter, or 3,000,0001. per annum, and that charge Would be.done away with in the course of this year. There remained the permanent Exchequer Bills, and the deficiencies . —To himself, who was not much versed in these matters, the , simplest and the clearest way of approximating to a knovrletlg o of them was, that of supposing a case in the anions of private life. of the Government and - the Bank, in res And he thought be could elucidate in this manner the situation the deficiencies. "Supposing a nobleman, having 10 or 12,00 a, a-year to:pay out of tliF . rents of his estate, in quarterly pay ments, wishes to avoid the trouble himself, and makes over to his banker the payment of the same, with a claim t.) the in•-• 01 doing so upon his rents and income. Suposing him to say ,t° the Banker, " Only do you. make these quarterly pair en p '', pect to what was called and take them again out of my rents; and if ever you ga t " - me with an interest upon the surplus until it is repaid ; deficiency in the rent compared to the quarterly advance, charge,. ever it should be less than the income, then I will not require interest to be paid to me." In such a case he would ask, it the Banker would have a bad bargain ? Ile would 14 , then, that the Bank , was in the situation of such a banks ing house towards" the Government, and dealing will it as. such a House would be dealing with the Nobleman. They were making no advinces but what were speedily --felt; and indemnifying themselves for any deficiency by Tece iv " . ' interest until it was made up. This was the exact nature of ill arrangement, between the. Bank and the GovernMent• Auk. how did it work ? By tl4 ittatement which he held 111 his high" he ,could explain the course of their transactions in the last Yea''' On the sth of January, 1824, the sum advanced by the Bank was. ,1,t40,0001., and this, was all cleared 0114 the end of the OP quarter, continuing to bear interest in that interval. On r, ). qusrter ending the sth of April, the advance on the part 01. Bank was 100,0001., all of which was cleared off by the eml °' :May', and for the remaining period of the Ith July' quarter, up to to the Dank was inipossession of the revenues of the Governmen t doith them as to it should seem good, and paying no ilt g „,fo l but i f upon the amount. On the sthofJuly they advanced ito ( ' , `";:ii which wAt cleared by the 3d of Sep.ember, and from that to the 10th of October, the receipt of the revenue was 51151 0 ,w in their hands, and ..the profits accruing from the use of money during that period. On the 10th of October th e 7_ • vance was. 1,400,0001. and odd ; and on the 10th of Pecetut that was cleared, and the bene fi ts accruing tram the holding the the revenue again belonged to the Bank until the fith,_,a t „ or , 5,500,000!.; nuary. lie then went on to the sth of January in t his was and at that time the advance on the part of th e ' ban- was and on the day on which be spoke the amount was reduced to 2,500,0001., and was in a course of daily eedu ct lia, • • He contended that it was not fair, therefore, to represent "" g . prim! of a legitinwe source of connection between the Government and the Bank as an h i l t r tbo diment to its operationtawhen it was, in fact, an aid; and Government withdrew it from the Bank, they woul_ i ti ue prised to hear it so described by the Hon. Gentleman , heS -- , profit. Ile was, indom' S ia se he found it asserted in the Report of .the Bullion Goninnete' and again in that of the Committee of 1810, that the a dva ,/ a 0 the Bank ought not to be named without a consldent e ef the balances' at the stone time. Whatsswas the l a w yer ' and those balances in a year ? They amounted to 7,oo o ,vus' n , to the Bank therefore gained the bendlit of having that " -- aul apply to whatever uses they might •think most advantalgoo, to themselves.. Why, then, he had reduced these 24f et of the iron. Gentleman -until nothing remained to fetter ~e • operations of the Bank but the 6,000,000 of permanent Eat. %ter Bills. Surely no Gentleman would say that the sure 4 7; tonally advanced by the Bank ought to be taken into the tion. He maintained that no ediMents haneen thrown us vern• the way of the Bank b P y its connection with the po verty meet. If the Bank Proprietors had - divided eigh t t r a ; cent. upon a capital of 14,000,000!, instead of dividingdS tbst per cent. upon the original' capital of 12,000,000 k. an d co b encrease accruing since the time when they stisPen, d li a re. payments. he thought there was little to complain c. n ot membered that upon seeing these dividends made, a nd It viewing the subject as a political economist, but treatingo practically, he thought tit to propose in the Bullion Cotnmitt4. that no further encreaise of their dividends should be pertnta Ile thought he gathered front the Hon. Gentleman some elt; a l chat further measures of relief might have been contenifi",-/ by the Government, which the Bank were not able to I. aa a " f Into e ff ect, if nut direneUmbered of its embarrassments, at" - "„, r s from transactions with the Government. But he would v .i. en a "*„ , to say that the Bank was, in respect to its connection with vernment, in a suite of less embarrassment than at toy l a mc to which retrospeetion-could carry them. It', lien, tne, 4 , of England was in such a condition, what was there to o a ntr y operating this change in the currency, on the part of the C, A'.., %1 t he Banks. The nearest approximation that could be ma", :Net amount of their circulation in small notes, placed it al l - t ight 4,000,000/. Why, then, what was the extent of his t t ps Honourable Friend's proposition ? He proposed that al cit. .1 - course of three years, the notes should be withdrawn ftn“too. culation, and Metallic currency substituted in the it _t a sal There were, perhaps, about 700 Bankenow in the cont"" ' ea ch if this sum were divided amongst them it would g, ire t s ° , t his about B,oool.'ai its circulation of 11. notes ; and to with& wta they . were given three years, which would make the suits N o w diminished between two and three thousands ts yea, i , r ' s e of Country all that he had heard of the solidity and l a r Country Banks, was lie to be told that the with _ t e r se or three thousand a year from their circulation Ot t fl at years was such a strain uspon their capa,cit . y, that it con e ; but overwhelm them with distress-and nun ?-4 11ea l' a ll aropew Ile was sure that if his Right Hanciurable Frir" ' "* T iatie , (ion were treated without exaggeration, ;malted by f l uid a nil and reduced to its own natural proportions, . 1 (1)1_d a excite wonder th a t so muc h Alarm anti apprehension 100 expressed in that' House as to its character. nu!, 0 00, 4 he would agree with t h ose w h o took an oppos„f die l) • and affected to treat it lightly, in all their epithetJ the notion and extenu a ti on , as far as regarded callal"id ~0 roM ad measure into oper a ti on , y et h e w idely diff f ered - tintn to its ultimate results. If it would be small in its lb! diate effect, it was mighty in principle. If it " 9 0 000 1 minds of men to a sense of the value of a metallic e i t„ pu t t ! would have achieved a mighty good; it would ` l , - frereal check upon a growing evil, and one which, u . T hey Pow; might proceed to an incalculable Went' ~4 aotes;: t seen something of the of these • one-P"" s ir He remember ed that Mr. Burke, with whom, whe n k, Obi came into Parliament. he had the happiness of being__— to of intimacy mentioned the subject of one pound notr.„, ids in a letter. , It was the only letter its ever receired