The Sun. — London, England, 1836-07-12 00:00:00

suet tie should be justified in requiring each paper to take unstamped papers in their possession, without a guilty out distinctive stamps, but as it appeared to he the wish of knowledge. It was believed out of jloors that this Bifi a great many newspaper proprietors that such a measure was meant to be a gagging Bill ; he did not believe that, should be adopted, it was deter m i ne d th at by an arrange - but he trusted it would not b e p ersevere d i n , so objection ?tient in the Stamp-office, any person who should wish a able as it was felt to be. It was impossible for any one to distinct stamp for his paper should be enabled to procure vote for the clause without feeling that he was voting for it. He hoped, by this means, that all parties would be sa- that which would violate every principle of justice. tisfled.—(Hear!) Mr. VILLIERS (we believe) ureed on the Right-Hon. Mr. LEADER hoped that until better me a n s f or arr ie. Gentleman the consideration, that when laws ran counter ing at a correct conclusion were devised, no M em b er wou ld to the public feeling, they became a dead letter. The pro think of calling for a Newspaper Stamp Return. • posed law was opposed to the feeling of the country ; it The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ad- was considered that its object was rather to suppress intel mitted that under the present system of issuing Stamps, ligence than to facilitate the collection of the revenue. Any the public had no means of forming a correct judgment as one might go and place in the poor man's cottage an un to the condition of each paper ; but at the same time he stamped paper, and thus render him liable to a heavy pe doubted whether, as it was not necessary for the purposes nalty, When a law was capable of so much mischief; the of the revenue that it should be ascertained to what papers people would be very scrupulous in applying it. Stamps were issued, it was in his power to propose a remedy The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had for the evil. In a measure particularly relating to revenue looked in the clause iii the original Act now before him, lie did not see the justice of imposing on parties against and that provided that a person having in his possession a their will, any restriction to which they might object. He Newspaper not daly stamped was subject, as in this Bill, to thought it was quite right to allow all parties who wished a twenty pounds penalty. The difference between the for distinctive Stamps to have them ;- but he certainly two clauses was this. The words in the 38th of George should be going beyond his jurisdiction were he to make an 111., were having " knowingly and wilfully" an Unstarnped attempt to compel those who were content with the present Paper in his possession. At present the great distribution `system to depart from it. of Unstamped Papers did not take place under any act of Lord SAND ON disagreed with the Right Hon. Gen • sale ; they were distributed at public-houses. If ,they al tlemau the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He contended lowed the possession of these Papers to be free from penalty that a distinctive stamp, if made voluntary, would not be there would be an end to the penalty in other cases, because productive of any good. The paper that did not adopt they would not be able to prove the fact of sale ; that it would have an Unfair advantage, as far as public impres- would be evaded, and thus the practice would continue sion went, over that which did. It was his opinion it unabated. He had no objection to insert in this clause should be made compulsory, or not at all attempted. He the very words he found in the other Act, namely, " know quite agreed that in the present state of the Newspaper ingly and wilfully," because he believed that with this al- Stamp arrangements, no returns should be called for, inns- teration the Act would afford the means of meeting the much as they were calculated totally to mislead the public. cases to which he had alluded. The- CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had Mr. JERVIS asked whether the power was to be re always opposed the production of the Newspaper Stamp tained which the Bill gave to peace-officers ? returns ;in the first place, because he saw no Parlia- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said rnentary grounds for calling for them ; and secondly, from the proposed Bill was a limitation of the present Act in the knowledge that, under the present arrangement, they that respect. The five hundred cases of prosecution of could not impart to the public any thing like a correct idea which there was a return before the Heuse, were not at of the circulation of each Newspaper. It was notorious the instance of peace officers, but common informers. that the present arrangement enabled one paper to take Mr. ROBINSON said the s a m e p ressure w hi c h i n d uce d cult stamp s for s e v era l, and consequently to take credit to the Government to give up the old duty would force them itself for a circulation considerably beyond its actual one. to abandon the penny duty. He hoped, however, that under the new arrangement this The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said this defect would be obviated. As regarded those papers that the effect of the clause, as he proposed to alter it, Which should adopt the distinctive stamp, it was evident would be, as far as regarded persons having unstamped the new system must prove effective ; and as the Bill con- papers in their possession, to leave the law, as he found it. tained a clause prohibiting any editor or proprietor of a He proposed to take the words in the statute of 38th Paper, under a heavy penalty, from procuring stamps ex- Geo. 111. ; those words were " knowingly and wilfully ;" cept from the distributor of stamps at Somerset-house, he and he proposed further to omit the words to which ob entertained great hopes that all future returns would give jection had been made. This would throw the onus of very nearly, if not altogether, and for the first time, the proving the offence on the party making the charge. correct circulation of each paper. Mr. AGLIONBY suggested, the addition to the words Mr. PRYME thought there was a very strong objection " knowingly and wilfully," of the words " without sufficient to the clause prohibiting editors of Newspapers from pro- excuse." curing stamps except from the proper distributor. It often The ATTORNEY-GENERAL observed that "know occurred that in consequence of an accidental mistake or ingly" was to be interpreted persons taking the paper know omission, a paper had not in its office a sufficient number ing that it , was not stamped, and " wilfully" with an intention of stamp s for a pressing publication, and was obliged to to violate the law. The clause, as-amended, was agreed to. borrow of another establishment. It was well known that Mr. O'CONNELL observed, with respect to clause papers of different politics often so accommodated each 177, relating to the discovering of proprietors, printers, or other. Now if this custom were restrained, great injury publishers of Newspapers, that those who wrote in News might be done to property. -He should, therefore, when papers ought to be made responsible. If the clause were the clause in question came under consideration, mac that so worded he should support it. its operation should not extend to'parties borrowing stamps Mr. WAKLEY observed, that men who wrote scandal for temporary convenience. ought to be made known. No man ought to be permitted Mr. ROBINSON thought it would be an excellent to publish that which he would not dare to avow. The plan to register all the proprietors of Newspapers, as well stateof the Press at the present moment was scandalous ; the original as those who should come into the concern for there were no means now of ascertaining the author of by transfer, and that such registry should take place that which was injurious to the character of another. periodically. The only objection to such a proposi- Clause agreed to. tion Was the cumbrous nature of the machinery which Mr. PRYME objected to clause 178, empowering Com. would be requisite, when the present extent of the missioners to refuse Stamped Papers to persons in arrear press was considered, and the incre ase lik e ly t o re . f or St amp D u t y . H e move d, " Th at f rom li ne 13 to the suit fro m th e reduction of the duty. Upon the cowl- end of the clause be struck out." try press the proposition would obviously operate with The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER de much disadvantage and inconvenience. It would be very fended the clause, on the ground that, if persons chose to easy for a London Newspaper\ to send in the required give credit for that which ought at once to be paid, they registry, but in the case of a newspaper establishment at did so at their own risk. Birmingham, Manchester, or Liverpool, great expense and The Gallery was then cleared for a division, but none trouble would be occasioned by the necessity of the entire took place, and the clause was agreed to. proprietors registering their names at Somerset-house. The Clause 179 having also been agreed to, the House re ' adoption of the proposition would likewise oceesion great sumed. expense, in the way of additional clerks and officers, It The other Orders of the Day was then disposed of, and would also considerably check the establishment of news- the House adjourned at one o'clock. papers. This, however, he did not regret or complain of, for he thought that the publication of papers by joint-stock ' , companies, with shares as low as 5/. each, was not likely to improve either the character of the public press, or the mo rals of the people. The clause was then agreed to, as were also, after some co nversation, the several clauses up to 171 inclusive. UPon.the 172 d clause, which enacts that a penalty of a hundred, pounds shall be inflicted on any printer or pub lisher . eino does not print at the end of the newspaper his saai w ' e 'an end su rname , and place of abode, with a true de pcnted _ aof the.house or building, in which the paper is ' ., ,..wh0 }or Print s any false name, description, &c.; KLE and pro objected to the amount of the penalty, to! tli p_9.sad that it should be reduced to 101. He put it old c' 'fight Ron. Gentleman, whether, in consolidating Actsmore of Parliament, they ought to introduce provisions _severe than those which had already existed ? _T The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER main tained the the necessity of the penalty, in order to deter from comm'sssion of fraud. Were it not for such a penalty thee printer and publisher of a newspaper might assume the tame and residence of the Hon. Gentleman himself, After a few words from the ATTORNEY-GENERAL the clause was agreed to. The 173 d and 174th clauses were agreed to. Upon ,the 175th clause, imposing penalties on persons printing, publishing, and selling Newspapers not duly stamped, An Hole. 'MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, objected to the severity of the enactment. The •CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re presented the futility of imposing a duty, and then tbitli holding the means of enforcing the payment of th at d uty y puniibing th e p er s on s w h o were guilty of violating the law. Mr. WAKLEY said the people had a right to a free political Press, unfettered by any stamp whatever. Dr. BOWRING wished to ask his Majesty's Govern retort whether the struggle in svhich they were engaging with the unstamped Press was worth their while ? The clau se was calculated to bring ruin upon hundreds of per sons. Was it a quest i on w h et h er or not t h e revenue could afford to lose the small sum which the duty would produce ? Happily, they had evidence that it could. The people im plored the Legislature to repeal the duty. He had never known a subject on' which the feelings of the people were more excit e d. T he people entreated that they might have free access -to publicatiOns diffusing political knowledge ; and be trusted the House would respond to the wish. He into the present measure. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob served, th at t h e question of a penny duty had been de terinined. H e maintained that he was justified in impos ingthe a duty o f a penny, be cause it was b a l ance d b y g i v i ng after peanpaecrstinfree circ u l a ti on t h roughout the land. But, the Honourallthat the re s h ou ld b e a duty. how could Honourable Gentl eman oppose a clause imposing penalties upon the violati on of the law ? They were not then reasoning e on the 'expediency of reducing or removing the Stamp Duty. posines a duty of a They had d e t er mi ne d on im- Penny ; and it would be doing great injustice to those who obeyed the law if they did not inflict penalties on.those who disobeyed the law. As to the pro secutions which bad already taken place, ninety-nine out of a hundred were carried on by common informers. Now, the p resent l aw wou ld p l ace all such prosecutions. in the the hands of Government. It was very odd, it was one of those contingencies which he hoped would frequently recur, but, although the whole object of the Bill was to relieve the press by the reduction of the duty, the measure was stigm at i ze d as a fetter and restriction of the Press. It Was intended to be a measure of benefit, and it was charac terized as a measure of injury. If the law were left as it give th ose w h o printed unstamped stood a t present, i t wou ld p i pa.oers, and th ere b y v i o lated th e A ct, an advantage over those who printed -stamped papers and obeyed the Act. Le Lad never met with a single person acquainted with the subject who was not of opinion that a free circulation if Paper s th roug h out . the coun t r y was a greater benefit to ..e Press than the imposition of a duty of a penny was an !"j"rY. If he were not provided with the means of punish ing the violation of the law, it would be in vain to pass the Present Bill. Mr. WALLACE would not encourage those who were disposed :to disobey the law. Art- C. BULLER particularly objected to the penalty On any person sending or carrying an Unstamped News. Paper, The Hon. and Learned Gentleman moved the omis s i on f rom the clause of the words which would have t he eff ect of inflictin g a p ena l ty on part i es w h o h a d an-Un st:upped Newspaper in their possession. Mr. PRYME thought it objectionable to inflict the pe nalty for h av i ng an Unstamped Paper in possession. He asked whether the existing law gave such a power? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER 'begged t° ask whethe r any Hon. G en tl eman b e li eve d t h e l aw could b e enforced without the power to seize the Article in possession ? Mr. JERVIS said the Bill gave an alarming p—a ,povver too . great f or t h e mere object of facilitating ower the mi lee tion o f the revenu e Mr. O'CONNELL. said this elause would give a greater p 4v o iii % .e s s • ri eor than was Possessed for th e c o ll ec ti on of the revenue the d u t y was four times as high as it wee now. Every t i l l n plight to be sup p ose d i nnocent till guilt %yea proved ; the effect of this clause would be to put the persoo an 'tuk'zi to the proof of his innocence. Persons might have ROUSE OF LORDS, JULY 11. The Loan CHANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at five o'clock. Lord KENYON presented a petition from the Parish Clerk of Marylebone, against the Marriage Registration Bill. The Bishop of EXETER presented similar petitions from the Parish Clerks of Hereford. [During the time the Right Rev. Bishops were present ing their petitions, the Duke of WELLINGTON entered the House for the first time since his accident. The Noble Duke walked extremelj lame.l RAILWAYS. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved that Rennie's Brighton Railway Bill should be referred to the Committee now sitting upon the other competing lines of the Brighton Railway. The Duke of RICHMOND objected to it. That Committee had already sat four days, and if other lines were to be, referred to it, the termination of its sittings would be extended to an indefinite period. After some discussion the Bill was referred. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE presented several petitions in favour of the South Durham Railway Bill. Several other Noble Lords presented similar petitions. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE then moved the second reading of the South Durham Railway Bill. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY opposed the second reading of the Bill. He did so on account of the great detriment that it would cause to an estate of his, on which he had expended, within the last few years, no less a sum than , 80,0001. He did not believe the Bill was at all likely to be of any public benefit ; if he thought it would, he would be the last man in the world to oppose it, though it; object was to strike at his very exist ence.—(Hear.) To discuss the merits of the Bill before a Cohunittee would be attended with great inconvenience to him, and ho therefore would move that the Bill should be read a second time that day three months. Lord HOWDEN 6tipp - orted the second reading of the The Marquis of CLANRICAIIDE trusted the House wotlld adopt his motion. He did not now consider himself bound, though he had moved the second reading of the Bill, to go into its details ; but if the Noble Marquis (Lon donderry) felt he should be injured by it, the same course must be adoptad with respect to him that was taken with respect to othei individuals ; he must prove that injury be fore a Committee. Lord WHARNCLIFFE opposed the second reading the Bill. The House then divided, when there appeared—. , For the second reading, contents l9 Against it, not contents t. 51 . Majority against the Bill The Archbishop of CANTERBURY presented peti tions against the Marriage Registration Bill from the Deanery of Essex, and other places. , Lord LYNDHURST presented a petition from the Six Clerks of the Court of Chancery, in Ireland, in favour of the Bill introduced by the Lord Chancellor, to amend the practice of the Court of Chancery. The petitioners also prayed for compensation. The Bishop of LL A.ND A IT presented petitions against the Registration of 11larriages anti Births' Bill. Lord WYNFORD presented 4 petition from Font against the Poor Law Amendment Act. The Earl of OLENGALL presented a petition from the spirit-dealers of DuLilo against the Excise License Bill. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a peti tion from the parish clerks of Newcastle-upon-Tyne against the Registration of Birtha and Marriages Bill. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented. a petition from Queen's county, praying the House to cons id er th e subject of the Irish Municipal Corporations Bill. The Earl of ABERDEEN presented a petition from Aberdeen) in favour of the Scotch Universities Bill. Also a petition from Banff, in favour of the amendments to the Irish Corporations Bill. The LORD CHANCELLOR ,presented a petition, signed hi 2 persons in the King's Bench, praying the House to pass a Bill for the abolition of imprisonment for debt. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR, in moving the second reading of this j3jl4 said that their Lordships should re-. lect that, though a part pf the Bill related to the abo fitioil of imprisonment for debt, that was not the sole object whi4 the Bill sought to obtain, fie had never felt that exclusive feeling which some persons had professed on the subject of imprisonment fur debt but, .4 considering the question, he had always endear voured to asegrt.a.in how far it was possible to secure to creditors the PaYtue4t 9 f that which was justly tine to then. The ground on which he strprp to obtain their Lord ,- -de present measure was, that h e ships' arTrablition t. thought it ,attained 11 , Cfold object of giving u letter 'security to the creditor and a rucra ready moans pf rem w.e.ring debts, and at the same time relieved those who were suffering under th e p ressure w hi c h the present s:4,c hi f Jr threw upon them. 'rue ge neral subject Was 011. c . Tars had engaged the ...itp..ntion of the other on,pe - IS , and in 183-) a C0mr..4, - 40 had made a iteP o it.' "Ire was' aware that in the last session pwlianient a Bill, intended to carry into effect the recommendations of the Report, had been pent up from the House orC4MmO. fiv r THE SUN, LONIJON, TUESDAY, JULY 12, 1836. did not come up to their Lordships' House until the 16tl of August. It was well enough that the House should then feel that it was rather too late to begin the consider;;. tine of so important a measure. The present Bill was laid on the table on the 30th of June, and he should have been rejoiced to have laid it on the table at' an earlier period ; hut on that subject he felt he was open to no reproach. Ile Report to which lie had already alluded made it unneces sary for him to detail ali the objections to the present sys tem and the remedies proposed to be applied. The ques tion had reference to the two periods at which an arrest might take place. It applied to the mesue process for the purpose of securing the appearance of the defendant upon execution, and to 'the subsequent imprisoninent whi c h fhllowed th e judgment. The object of the present Bill was to get rid of both, for nothing could be more nnoma lous than the present state of the law after judgment.. By the present bankrupt laws a man being a trader, and owing 100/., might. divide his priyperty amongst his creditor s , but such an advantage was not extended to debtors riot trailers. If imprisonment after judgment were not right, could, Ito would ask, imprisonment before judgment be right ? Th e ' imprisonment ,before judgment, before trial, was for the purpose of producing the body of the defendant, and at the production bail was discharged. He would now call their Lordship? attention to the state of the law with regard to mesne process. A person accused of an offence was first, arrested and then taken before a magistrate, who investi gated the charge before time accused was committed ; but in the case of debtors the law was very different. Ti le party was arrested before judgment ; bail might be put in, but the expense of bail was usually so great, that it was not worth while to put it in. This practice he would, therefore say was an obvious means of extortion. What now were the evils to be remedied ? First, that the debtor, by the present law, was,exPosed to severe and useless hard ship ; then the inconvenience that a man who was willing to ,cede his property for the benefit of his creditors was not permitted to.do so without incurring two months' imprison ment ; and, lastly, that a man who was desirous of settling with . his creditors without resorting to any legal tribunal could not do so without obtaining the signamre of every individual creditor to the agreement. The present Bill proposed to effectuate these several objects. The first ' fifteen clauses provided means by which a more effectual execution could be obtained against the property of the debtor. He proposed that, as tile interest of the creditor was limited to one half of the income of the debtor's estate, it should be extended to the whole. The greatest dif ference between the Bill of last year and the present Bill was with regard to making landed property subject to a compulsory process for the payment of debts. The cre ditor was by law entitled- t o one -h a lf o f th e inco me ; and it was now proposed that, if the debtor did not pay off the debt within one year, the creditors should then be consideiel to have an equitable lien on the property. It was also proposed to make every descrip tion of property subject to execution for debt. Judgment being obtained, Commissioners were to examine the insol vent, and after a full disclosure they might authorise an as signment of part of the property for the satisfaction of the debt. It was also prop) ed, that after judgment the judg ment debt should bear interest from the date of the debt. The abolition of imprisonment for debt would cause one of the Bankrupt Acts to cease, and it was therefore proposed that, unless the debt were paid within twenty-one days, or a writ of error brought, that of itself should be considered to amount to an act of bankruptcy. The Bill also provided for the punishment of those who fraudulently obtained credit or who fraudulently assigned their properties after actions had been commenced against them ; also, for giving false ac counts to their creditors, or declining to give accounts, or for mutilating their books, or fraudulently absenting themselves. For such offences the arties shall not be punished by the Judge before whom the debts were to be proved, but be guilty of a substantive offence, and be liable to punishment accordingly. This would afford a powerful check against the fraudulent conduct of debtors. If this measure became the law of the land between debtor and creditor it would follow that the present law of arrest would be got rid of. He thought, however, that in some cases the law of arrest should be'allowed to be continued. For instance, when a person was about to' absent himself from home with a view of removing to another country, to avoid being proceeded against by his creditors, he conceived that there should be some means of taking hold of the debtor with a view of detaining him. As an illustration of what he meant, he would mention the case of a creditor living at a distant part of the country, who knew of the intention of a person in his debt to leave the country, but who would not be able to , stop him from the lapse of time that would ensue to send up to London to obtain authority to arrest the debtor. Under such circumstances, he proposed that on an affidavit being made. b e f ore a mag i strate of the facts of the case, the latter should be empowered to issue, a warrant to arrest him ; that the person should then be taken before a ma gistrate, and on giving security for his being forthcoming when called for, that h e s h ou ld b e release. From the returns on the table, he believed that he was authorized to state that; there were very few arrests for larger sums than GOl., and most of the arrests were for sums between 20/. and 20/. At any rate he was authorized to say that the law of arrest was brought into operation for debts be tween 20/... and 60/. The Bill was framed in conformity with the .report of tile commissioners, and was also in its main principles similar to the Bill sent up from the House of Commons last Session ; hut if the House was of opinion that there was pot sufficient security for the creditors, or sufficient ready means to obtain payment of debts, they might, provided they (lid not impose greater hardships oil debtors, make such alterations and modifications a: they deemed fit. What there was proposed in the measure was, that the law of arrest should be abolished, except in special cases--that the debtor should be compelled to go before one of the Commissioners who' was to be appointed through. out time country to carry the Bill into effect--and that the commissioners should examine as to whether the debtor was possessed of property or not.—(Hear.) If it appeared that he was not possessed of property, and that he had not fraudulently contracted debts, then the Commissioners should be allowed to give him a release ; and if it appeared that there was property it should be surrendered tq the creditors, and that then a release should be given. The 13i11 would not give the Commissioners the power of adju, (heating in a disputed case ; but after' both parties - were brought together in very many cases matters might be sa tisfactorily adjusted. Of course this Bill could not be carried into effect without an extensive machinery. In London it was proposed that the Court of Review slicuil t i be used as a tribunal, The Court of Review, 004141 ad mirably qualified, as far as regarded the Judges of it, in arriving at a direct conclusion of the cases brought before it, yet it bad not sufficient business before it to oeeuß its full attention, This Court, therefore, lv'ou tt ld io to transactbesuflitlt for London. It would not, however, by the business of time whole country. Under these circum stances it was proposed that Commissioners should- be ap pointed to carry the Bill into effect in all large towns in the country, and, above all, in the large commercial and ma nufacturing districts. These Commissioners also would be of great use in being able to take affidavits, and ,endca your to Make enquiries under the direction of the Court qt' Chancery, but by which means a ?feltvi 118' 1T01 1 , 1 4t gffe.cted tq flits §tfifrtl'fi lend P§POialbir iq tilqsq eases w h e re it tsar now necessary tq send down a special CorivnisSi(llli fikvat heaelts had'already resulted from tho Ncout *cf.:alien in the constitution of -the 11414:rupt (Joert in I..ondon, and he'had no doubt that much good would arise from extending the system to time country. It was QhViolis that Olt system would rewire the appointment of a 'oo{llllll6SitliWr ill each district its the eGuntry, '‘vlio would have to trarsanct the bankrupt System, as welt ns that oonneoted with insolvents, The 'Noble and Loaroed Lord concluded with moving the second reading of the Bill, The Duke of WELLINGTON rose,-and said—My Lords; thc Noble and Learned Lord has stated accurately to your Lord, ithips the dates of different periods at which measures upon this suiject have been introduced into this House ; and the Noblo and Learned Lord has said that a Bill was brought before your Lordships upon the 16th August, 1835, and that he had him self laid upon your Lordships' table the present Bill upon the 30th June. 1836, and the Noble and Learned Lord has compared the period of the 16th August, and the period of the 30th June, as if there could be no circumstances existing in Parliament which ought to be taken into consideration in a question of this kind, excepting merely the dates at which the measures were in. troduced. If I am not mistaken, there is at this moment upon your Lordships' table a larger quantity of business than was ever before known ; besides, my Lords, we hear reports of an expectation, and I am sure I hope that those - reports are well founded--( A iaugh)--,that the present Parliament will be prorogued at the end of this or early at the commencement of the next month ; your Lordships know, likewise, that there arc many measures of the very greatest importance to be sent up from the other House, upon which it is absolutely necessary fur us to decide. Considering, further, that several Noble and Learned Lords have already left Parliament, and that others must shortly go on the circuit—l say, my Lords, that if it was expedient upon the 16th of August, •1835, to post-. pr,nn the consideration of a measure of this nature, it is, at least, equaliy expedient to adopt the same course upon this day, the 11 th of June, on which it is again proposed for ; y our attention! ill the earlier Put of the Noble and Learned Lord's speech ho stated enactments which would certainly render it desirable to postpone the Bill. There is Pno Subject Suite distinct from all the others, and that relates to the judgment debtors ; there is also another subject, quite distinct *and separate from the others with which it is connected in this measure—l allude to tho conic! knorum. The thifcl subject, ulttcli is quite distinA is the punishment of fraudulent debtors ; plttl the last siubjeot, quite distinct from all the rest, roleteP to the arrest of the person, With regard to the first part, my Lords, It cont a i ns the most remarkable change in the whole system of the tenure of property—a• change which, if it be necessary to adopt, in order to give the creditors a fair hold upon the property of their debtors- 7: A c l a i m L 4dmit must LIP attepded tp, for ()iochs. let • . .• •••,• • k , i t be. male ut,my' 4.,orqq, 4 naye. reptted 'to cdlain re turns upon the'subpet,' tad' it 'a.kicalls so!faras I' have been able to judge front those - 'retUi4isiii records, that the number of "pdrUout • delitOq' in vroToftiom t 9 crsena in general is really quite trifling ; for I find that the number of judgment debtors against whom affidavits were to in all the Courts of London, out of 123,000 was only 800. {The Noble Duke also referred to some other figures which we could not catch, and proceeded.] And yet, for the sake of laying' hold of such persons, we are called upon to overturn the whole system of property in this country.— ( Hear, hear.) If it be true that the great merchants,• that the - lauded gentry of this country, are persons who endeavour to avoid the payment of their creditors in the name of God let uS adopt this measure ; but if it be•not true, if the papers to which I have referred nffsrd a true estimate upon the sub s ject, then I say that the first 16 clauses of the Bill are wholly unnecessary ; and I beg of you to pause some time before you adopt those clauses. The Noble and Learned Lord had said what was very true, that the first 16 clauses alone re ferred to judgment debtors. The other clauses, amount ing to about 100, refer, to debtors against whom there has been no juilgment ; and the object of the present inea sure is to bring those debtors rte . :in - Ist whom there is las judgment under the operation of the bankruptcy laws ; but how. are they to be so brought? Why, they are to volunteer to petition—they•cann o t be arrested—their persons. caenot be touched—but these debtors, against whom, be it re membered, there is no judgment, are to come forward and •vo lueteer to petition, in order that they may be brought under the operation of the bankruptcy laws. Will -your Lordships In;lieve that this proposal cart give any security to,the creditors'? If these persons were arrested, then I could understand why they should petition to be brought under the influence of the Bankruptcy Act;' but theie being no judgment against them, nit being subjeet to arrest, they are to petition for the Opera tion of this Act I The supposition is totally out of the ques tion ; it is abundantly clear that they will not do it. Then, with respect to the next point, I must - say that the Noble and Learned Lord spoke in a manner which I was not prepared to expect in reference to the Insolvent Debtor's Court. For my own part I understand that that has,been a most efficient Court—(Hear, hear)—and I find. that by returns there were 4,500 persons in the, prisons of the metropolis. Well, 2,500 were discharged by the Insolvent Debtor's Court, and 1,500 remained in prison ; and therefore file remaining 1,000 must have satisfied their creditors, and liberated themselves. Now, then, my Lords, it does appear to inn that this Court is not ineffectual. Now in respect to that which I call the third part of the Bill, • the confinement of fraudulent debtors, I can see no remedy in the present Bill. As the law stands now the Judge of the- Insol\vent Debtors' Court has the power of refusing to liberate the debtor whom he may find involved in fraud against his creditors or other persons, and that is the confinement complained of by thesNoble Lord. - But by this Bill the debtor must be' regularly indicted, ,and your Lordships all know the difficulty of proof in such cases. Then I say upon this part of the Bill that it will not tend to accomplish the object in view. I now come to the last and fourth part, the abolition of arrest, except in cases in which it should.be thought that there was an intention of withdrawing from the country; and I must say this, that I believe that the mercantile classes of the country are interested in having' ome power over the persons of their debtors, but that their interest in having such a power is not greater than the interest of the lower classes.. If no means should be afforded of procuring money froM their debtors, the lower classes may at tims be left in circumsteiices of the greatest difficulty. Under these circumstances, my Lords, I trust that you will consent to post pone the second reading until this clay three weeks. Iliave fixed that time, because I wished to be understood as pro flouncing no absolute condemnation of the measure. Lord ABINGER said the law of this country Wit re. mained in its present state for a long series of years, anacors responded with the law of every other country in Etrone, Why, then, should they be called upon to make so loge, and important an alteration of that law by a Bill of this maitre ? The greatest part of it, and that part which •embritee4 the most novel propositions, was for the purpose of bringlegi oer lain persons under the operation of the Bankruptcy lAct. Now. he begged their Lordshsps' attention whilst he ipro ceeded to,prove to demonstration that the immense machinery and consequent expense with which this Bill was attended was • neither necessary nor efficacious. The law at present .was, that any person, being a trader, upon a dechiration, might; be come th e subject of a quiet bankruptcy. Now, tho object of this Biil was to accomplish the same thing with regard to 'per sons who were not traders ; and what was the - simple Mode of doing it ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) Why, by proposing a claus e to the effect, that the. declaration made hitherto by perions being traders might be made by persona not being traders, and should have the same:force end e*ct ; and thus the whole system of the bankruptcy law would be at once brought into operation. Again, with respect to the Insolvent Debtors' CoUrt, that was now confined to persons who were arrested ; and what was necessary to effect the object of, the present measure but to form a clause, stating that the ben;efits of the Insolvent Debtor's Court should be extended to per?ons who were not arrested ? Either of those two simple clauses, then, would accomplish the whole object of the present Rill, by the means of existing institutions, without all that vast ; machinery and expense with which it was encoMbered. If the 1 purpose had been to reduce the Isenksuptcy law, ho would have given the subject his deepest oonsideration ; but he never.would consent in that covert manner to make so important an altpra tiun in the ancient system 'of law upon the subject. But that was not all ; there were a great m an y prov i s i ons, which went to affect that most delicate of all subjects, the public iessisslit, which was the foundation of trade. That, thm, is of all others a subject which requires the most 04ttwat attention, and upon which they were bound not to peooeed hastily or without due caution. With rer:peot to that part which regarded the judgment debtors, he was inclined to think that that proposition, with some modification, might be just and expedient. Viscouat MELBOURNE said, that in what had fallen Prim the Noble Duke he ( Lord Melbourne) would not cc4nr,, and esp ec i a ll y w h en the Noble Duke assigned as a reawm i ;tr.' I postponing the Bill u n til th at d ay three weeks, OW Owen WP.'.; a general report to the effect that a proroget4saiut Parllantent as that event must do upon might be expected at the end of She ilf,Ditsilt month, or, ati all ev,mts, in the beasinning ne4t.' He must say that to deelde thus early . upgil prulaabilities of a prorogation was, hoyond s ttife p . : 4 l : ' 44 i t s l' 3 lt d itit i Y s i' c ao u lf s 4y s b i discussion, and upon M mighten—essdepending oente hofore their Lerd nisentnatancea on which it m, as totally out of the power of any . individual to pronounce a &finite judgment; and hp was himself inclined to think that in all probability the Ist of AVM would still find them sitting there, and would again bring tho measure before them, As, then, they would ultimately have to consider the Bill, why not enter upon it at once ? Why shookt the Noble Duke pripose to put it off fq three when, undoubtedly, L 'enise 6- 4 them, the discussion? It was pot it must conic %Taut his intention lq ik1110e( the Noble Duke or the Noble and into any a the arguments they bad offered; on t i lre ar ii7l 4 l al wcl nd its details; but at the same time lie must say that be did not ET in those arguments any reason whatever 'for pestpuning the consideration of the measure. As compar w;tltthe duration of fo rmer S essions—some of which had tun ed tat into September—the present time might airnest be-consi dered a's the middle rather than IttA the tcmination of the SesSion. • • 4Ord Bliiiir.ll 0 -erVed that the first clause of the Bill 4141 It 4qwn that the Bill should not come into operation until the Ist of January, 1838, so that the postponement of the. Bill t;cl4ld not create alas* great loss of time. Lord WYNFORD, after 'some observations on the details of the measure, in which he particularly objected to the powers given to judgment creditors, concluded by saying, that the ob ject of the m o ti on to postpone the further consideration until that day three w ee k s was not to throw out the Bill, but merely to get ri.l of it in a quiet way, by putting it forward until the •next session, it having been introduced at so late a period in the present es to preclude the possibility of a stat4thetory discus sion upon it in both Houses. The LORD CI - 1V:4(14,1,0% in reply, s a id th at hi s Noble and la u t t neCl • Filcatti had stated that the introduction of lWn cl.Aliv's in existing Acts would effect all the objects {he, 'll,vs:ent Bill without the necessity of resorting to its nateneis machinery; but those clauses would in fact restore the old bankruptcy system, and continue the Insolvent Court. The only object of such a pisepasition would seem to be the saving of a little paper and printing, and no more, for if carried into effeet it would leave the law still most defective. A de sire to (4'64t0 patronage could scarcely with any foundation be eherged against time promoters of this Bill. All, however, t . ,', a t lie had now to do was to leave the Bill in their Lordshies: bands. The question having been put, the House di v id e d , w h en thtre appeared_ For the amendment . - For the origin a l ree s; oo 46 • Majeriry against the second reading REQISI:I-ZATION 00 BIRTHS, MARRIAGES, AND DEATHS. Viscount MELBOURNE rose to move the second reading of the Bill for the Registration of Births and Deaths, and should their Lordships agree to allow that measure to be read a second time, also to move the second reading of the Bill for the Registration of Marriages. He was desirous that the two measures should be considered by their Lordships together, and on the same occasion. The main object of' the Bills which he was now about to bring under their Lordships'• notice was' to meet the necessity, now on all hands admitted to exist, of relieving those of our fellow -countrymen who dissented from the doctrines and principles of the Established Church from being compelled to express their conformity with opinions and principles in which they could not conscientiously concur. Various measures had been proposed in the other House by various persons ; but in the preparation and conside ration of them great difficulty had been found in reliev ing the Dissenters from the grievance of which they complained, without doing away genCrally with the solemnity o f is religious rite on the several occasions in qnestion, The only mode of effecting the object, and of', at the same time, atfossling-• the opportunity for the reliuious ceremony, wa s th e r eparation of the c i v il from the eedesiastieal ceremony, and the establishment thronntiout the kingdom of one universal re gistratinn b4tbs, deaths, and marriages, a matter of general nalitleal c onvenience, of great pfiblic interest, and one in the highest degree desirable. The necessity for such a general re gister ants obvious. There was, in all probability, scarcely a Noble Lord present who bad not, under some circumstances or other, felt the inconvenience, and frequently the injnry, arising from their heing'unable legally to verify the birth, death, or marriage of individuals. Those who were at all cor ,, :i. an t, ww itim the proceedings in our Courts of .justice would be still more alive to the dangers arising frs,Ss, an imperfect system' of registratien, The at l , registry present of no proof of the age of thesPesnns entered therein ; and how many cases were there of total omission frets; sh e regiater, where the princi ples of iduals ,if baptize Auearl 4g e t In the cases of marriage and bu rialn_s, inci s lb i eve Was the sense deficiency, It was to remedy all eca 'A142915, 41, t (1 to supply all these deficiencies, that the present wore letsoduced. (The Noble Viscount here Vi: ., rifit contrary to the observance of time rite treat intake detail of the .enactments of the Bill for the reSsis tvAtoAl 4 births and deaths, all which have repeatedly op., ;ktutve(.l . Shewheee, • and particularly"during the discussions on tb. same measure in the House of Commons.) He now came to the second Bill—ehat for the Registration of Mar riages; and a subject which had always occasioned greater difficulty and involved consequences of much greater import ance, because any omission in the due performance of regis tration of a marriage was calculated to affect posterior generations, and deeply to injure the interests of those who were quite unconscious of any wrong or fault which might have been committed. He was well aware of the evils attendant upon clandestine marriages, for marriages clandestinely performed were usually improvident and ill. assorted marriages, or the motives to secrecy would not exist ; but while he was so aware of the evils of clandestine mar riages he was equally of opinion that there was a still greater evil to be apprehended from encumbering the ceremony with so many forms as to endanger its being considered as null, and thus to blight the prospects and injure the interests of the offspring of such marriages._( Hear, hear.) Manny of the provisions of the existing law were justly regarded as wholly ineopsistent with the spirit of the time, more particularly those which related to the publication of banns. The first clause, therefore, of the measure now on their Lordships' table provided that the practice of publishing harms should cease, and substituted, therefore, a notice to the registrar of the district, accompanied by a declaration from the parents or guardians that there was no lawful or just cause of impedi ment to the marriage.. (The Noble Lord then went on to state the substance of the other clauses of the Bill, whi c h have already been frequently before the public.) In conclu sion, he hoped that the Bills would be looked upon by their Lordships as accomplishing the object had in view, without at the same time encroaching on any of the just privileges of the Church of England. The Archbishop of CANTERBURY.—The principal ob ject of the present measures appeared to be to relieve the Dis senters from the necessity of externally conforming to the forms of the Church of England, and so far as this principle went it had his most entire concurrence ; and he was happy to say not merely his personal concurrence but that of other members of the Church of England ; for he had on that day presented a petition 6om bodies of the Clergy in London and its environs, in which the same approval of the principle was manifested. At the same time, however, he could not extend the same approval to the details by which it was sought to carry out that principle ; so much so, that nothing but the de sire which he felt to give relief to the Dissenters would induce him to give his assent to the second reading of a Bill con taining enactments which he conceived to be so objectionable. He was willing that relief should be given to the'Dissenters, but tire Clergy of the Church o f E ng l an d oug h t not to be de prived of any advantages they enjoyed at present. They were satisfied with things as they were, and thought that cor rections might be applied without inconvenience to them. By this Bill the registration of births was compulsory. It pro ceeded in an inquisitorial mariner. Its provisions were en. forced by grievous penalties, which he believed could not be carried into effect. The system would not work well without considerable alterations. The registry of births was always preceded by the union, of two things, the naming of the chill, arid that at the tithe of baptism. All the petitions '-,rich h e presented on the subject insisted upon the i)u'iot as of great importance. Why should existing ar77thgements be disturbed so far as the Church Of E ngl"no was concerned ? Hitherto the Clergy of the _ F A L * l ..,7islied Church kept the registry, and kept it faithr.;:ily._( Hear, hear, bear.) What reason was there it they should he deprived of it ? He could not see any great benefit which the Bill conferred upon the poor. ltevould not be in the power of the registrar to remit the fee, while, as matters before stood, it was a very general Wailes) with the Clergy of the Church of England net to take any fee. It would be a saving of expense to the poor if the Cl ergy were still permitted to keep the registry, tit which duplicates might be transferred to the proper office. It was always the practice in this country not to interfere further with existing institutions than was necessary f or the purposes of legislation. Nov this Act interfered with Jews and Qua kers, as well as with Dissenters. He read the other Bill with great attention. and he was unable to perceive that it gave complete security. The plan for the registration of births was by no means complete. In some country parts persons would have to travel six or seven miles to give notice of registra tion. Another objection he entertained was, to the division into districts in place of the old parochial divisions. This would take away one security they had from the law as it now stood, requiring the publication of banns. The Noble Viscount said that the publication of banns, in place of preventing clandestine marriages, on the contrary gave greater facilities to them. This arose from the Marriage Act, which allowed the banns to be published in other parishes as well as that in which the parties resided. He was willing to allow the Dissenters every privilege and facility they could claim, but he would not consent that the Bill should interfere with the marriages of the Church of England, ar with those of Jews and Quakers. The Bill allawed the marriage contract to be entered into without any religious ceremony to accompany it. This was objected to in all the petitions which he presented to their Lordships, and there was a strong prejudice against it throughout the country. The Bill gave the registrar great authority. With respect to the putting in of powers of marriage, if it was desirable that the merriest,' should be by authority of this kind, let it be. undee she authority of a magistrate or of some edur.sated per.. e on, to prevent indecencies from taking place. Lord ELLENBOROUGH concuessaolin all that had fallen fro:n the Most Rev. Prelates. Ha 'was always w illi ng to yield to the conscientious 8C4 . 4Pi % o .of the Dissenters; but he could see no reason litse alterire-g the present form o f mar riage in the Chttreis Er"gland .- .. The Noble Viscount said the dpublieetime bluiP.,afferded no p ro t ect i on aga i nst clan estiro: v oo l vex y, gav e f ac ili t i es ,and rather, on the contras tC1404! Toe inconvenience in this case arose out o f th a t li ., Ovis;n of th e l aw w hi c h required that ' no inquiry prOst be made after the marriage. The same regulation was preserved in this Bill. Nut only was the existing laws as to publication of banns done away with, but a notice was here substituted in place of it—a notice, how ever, that could not possibly be made public. These Bills were said to be measures for the benefit of the poor man. Now, what he most complained of wins—that marriage by this Bill was made expensive to the poor man. By this Bill be must pay in the outset a- fee of ore shilling. Next he must pay the expenses of the two witnesses who accompany his for their trouble and their day's labour. He would also lose a day's labour himself. An expense of 3s. 6d. or 4s. more in addition must be incurred in this stage of the proceeding, and he (Lord Ellerrborough) knew not whether nullity might not in many cases arise from some unintentional error in the notice. An error might be committed quite unconsciously by either of the parties. There was another consideration— after publication of banns, as the law now stood, any person might forbid the marriage, and give his reasons for acs doing afterwards. In this way an utter stranger, unconnected with the parties, might prevent, for in stance, an incestuous marriage. It could not be so under this Bill. He had some strong objections to the measure which provided for the registration of births. The poor la bourer was called upon to give notice of the birth of his child eight days after. The time might be most inconvenient for him. All the inconveniences of the Bill would not become known till after some years' trial. And all these inconveniences and expenses Were to be inflicted on the poor man, merely to gra tify some speculative philosophers. This was not the only objectionable provision. It was required that when the child was to be registered, fifteen days after the birth, some person who was present at the birth must accompany it. Now it frequently happened that riot more than two persons were pre sent at a birth—the mother, and the person who attended up , on her as nurse. How were they to be got together ? The nurse might be absent at a distance, attending upon another. Some person at least was required to attend the registratie se who had the child in arms after its birth, and if this pro vision would not be complied with by the per,,rna he was subject to a penalty for another week's *Vex —( Hear.) It was required, moreover, that the Tattoo by tvle;ch the child was to be regist ere d must be given withi" eight days after the birth. It was trot usual to tiolt`" ) ;"e upon a name so soon As eight days after birth, Fisap)r, often altered their minds as to the name, and frnm " 4°P :, circumstances might be disposed to e g ive G at l tia'r . "'io that they a t fi rs t i nten d e d. N ow suc h a cAlg .it , ro'..tia was treated by the Bill as a kith' of offence, na the poor man was liable to be called upon for ss. more un aadition to the ft is. 6d. This was not all, for, if due nodes was not given within the required time, and after the required manner, the child would be deprived of the benefit Of registration altogether. It was impossible that their. Lordships could allow clauses of this kill to pass. lie could not see how the objects proposed by these Bills were to be effected by legislation. The one thousand re gistrars were to have a fee upon each marriage, and, cal culating the annual number of marriages in this country, the whole amount of the fees would be only 6,1001. It was calculated that the registrar would rec e i ve ever y year n o / less than 88,000 passes. His receillts, upon a p o p u lation 15,000 wo u ld, accor di ng to t h e scale of fees, amount for so to no more in the year th an 11/. 16 s . I t would b e impossible triflieg a remuner a ti on t o get men w h o wou ld d o the verybusiltess properly. A sa ti s f actory reg i strat i on o f bi rt h s was a dif ficult thing t o b e e ff ecte d. I t was not so diffi cu lt as regarded deaths and marriages. In the preparation of these Bills the Noble Lord might have availed himself advantageously of the Poor Law Amendment Bill. said the difficul t i es now Lord MELBOURNE, i n re ply, raised would varnish in the Committee. The vexations were greatly over -stat e d. H e had no doubt the A c t would be willingly complied „with when properly u n d erstood. The same practices prevailed in France as those provided for in the Bill. It did not interfere with the Clergy of the Este , only s u p erse di ng a blished Church; it left them as they were registry. The Bill was read a second time, and committed for We e _ day on the su e-,,aestion of the D u k e of WEL LI NG Tf;',s. Lard 'HOLLAND complained of this delay, 'Fine Duke of WELLINGTON considering • Int be given for consid •tb'-Proliwed Mondy that time nug to see i t passed after a thorough Bill. His wish was oration. ns . d Lord HOLLAND said hi, only objection to Monday was that a Noble and LeareA silents to attend + . t dc `, Committee;Lord'o(nDFernimdaayn.) had made arrange rLoro itIELBOURNE gave notice that on Friday he would itiove the recommittal of the Scotch Universities Bill. On the motion of Lord PLUNK E T, the Irish Chancery Officers Bill was read a second time. W ednesday was appointed for proceeding with the Pri soners' Counsel Bill. The Earl o f ROSSLY N presented a petition from certain Clergy and Presbyteries of Scotland against the Scotch Uni versities Bill.—Adjourned. . Lord Seymour arrived at Brussels from Paris the day before yesterday, on his way to Aix-la-Chapelle. After passing some time at that place, Lord Seymour, who is ac companied by B aron d'l vry, w ill return to Brusse l s i n time for. our horse races, SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNAL. The letter of Mr. Daniel Whittle Harvey to the electors of Southwark, announcing his retirement from the repres sentation of that borough, is a document deserving of some notice at the present juncture. If we rem mber aright, Mr. Harvey, when imp er ti ne ntly a dd resse d some time back, by a body calling it se lf, we believe, " The Southwark Re, form Association," very properly resented that impertinertog s and declared his determination to !oak, not to sectitith but to the entire body of his Constituents ) for a decision as to his Parliarnentary conduct, The line taken by the non, Gentleman on that occasion we thought manly, Spirited, and of a nature to annihilate the delegate system altoge ther. It is, therefore, not without some surprise that we find Mr. Harvey stating his resolve to have been not to hold a seat, " unsustained by the firm and entire sanctions of his Constituents." This, we apprehend, is a unanim'sy too wonderful to be expected in any elective body. least of all in one so composed as that of Southwark. • As to the personal considerations by which Mr. Harvey intimates that he has been to a certain extent actuated, we must say that, as far as he leads us to judge of their nature, they existed in as full force when he first stood fear the Bo rough es they do now. This, however, is a matter entirely for Mr. Harvey's own consideration. The Ministeriah journals insinuate, that the Member for Southwark has bean an unsuccessful candidate for Government favours. On finis Feint w e know nothing. If the Hon. Gentleman did r.eilly seek to :oin such a Ge'vernment as that now in offie, e , we a ro s n t g h r a z t itt o .l r b : i telitss upon an e s c a p e as signal' and con - so l atory gentleman who, as the story goe t an m ininsrt a ri s k o f i ncurr i ng the infliction of knigh's s, hoo so i d. To av e jo!n e d the incapables in their now inevitable declen sion, would indeed have been a calamity to so clever a gen ilonlqa as Mr. Harvey is on all h an d s a d m i tted to be. Still we must confess that, in the following passage in the let er in question, the writer seems a little sore at some neglect, real or supposed :—" I cannot consent to be a mere mute Member--a passive numeral—flat tered -by a Treasury summons to swell the ranks of a division upon any question which two contend ing parties shall so dexterously select, that no one is committed save their blind adherents. It would be well ter mankind if none others were made the dupes of the game." T o leave, however, the merely personal considera tions actuating Mr. Harvey, let us take his public grounds cf action, as he himself states them. He sets out with •an assertion, from which we must wholly dissent, n o tells.us, that it has ever been his opinion that " large constituencies should stand aloof from party as the herald s of the public. voice," & e . If t hi s were t h e case, b ow could a Powerful and unprincipled faction fear any formidable opposition to their nefarious designs ? What, for instance, is it that a t the present moment makes the Ministerial faction trembl e It is to the combination,. the concentrated potve r o r the Conservative party in the House of Commons, col - s.isting in so important a degree of gentlemen represesit ins counties, and other of these large constituencies spoken of by Mr. Harvey, that we are indebted for our political safety at the. present turbulent period. Mr. Harvey himself adr , s Y ds the whole of this,argument, when stating, as besrl.bes, in the following passage, that it is not against,tb' Conservative Lords, but aeainst the `,300 Con servs.tive Members of the Commons, the Radies.l portion of the electors should exclaim : " My friends u be not allured from the path of duty by idle declamations against the Lords. There is a mote in the nation's eye Which must be removed before you ran rightly discern the Scat of the disease. The master vice is in the scructure of the House of Commons; and it is r.at object worthy of all inquiry, whence it is that 300 11,1 endr. , .rs find their way into a reformed House of Commons to 0p , ,,05e what is called,: by courtesy, a reforming Government ?' So long as the Lords are thus powerfully sustained, the. :vlinisters will have little else to do than to receive their Salaries, and the people to pay them." Of these 300 Conservative Memlsere here spoken of, th e greater portion are representatives t,f large constituencies, and by their Combination into a 'powerful party, have effected that object which Mr. Harvey oelieves to be an evil, but which we believe is the highest stational good. Were the repre sentatives of large cons'auencies to hold themselves aloof in the manner propose s d by the Hon. Gentleman, we cannot see how they could.'oe of any use to their constituencies, or to the nation at large. It is to the moral weight thrown by such corrsoinations into the political scale that we arc indebted for the' counteraction of such unpriticipled coalitions as, that now formed between the Whigs arid Ra dicals. • sow by any other means could the country control anti effectually resist such a G overnment as the prrssent—a t'overnment so truly described by Mr. Harvey, that we prefer giving its character in his words to repealing any pre vious description of it by ourselves? • Mr, 1 3arvey says— " The Irish Tithe Bill is not the sole mssasure of the pre sent Covernmenarom which I dissent. 'Their entire policy is temporizing and' timid — disheartenisig to their friends—while it inspires their political foes with ' , sudacious courage. A rude and trembling hand is doing something to everything, and doing nothing well ; and So matters will remain, until firmer and sturdier hearts shall (strike out a course of government having for its sole objee:ss the safety, happiness, and liberty of the people." Perhaps, after elk, it was the conviction, on the part of the lion. Gentleman, that such a Ministry cannot possibly Ira together, w'nich , induced him publicly to shake off the - odium of any connexion, however slight, with them ; and thus to be enabled, at the next general election, to say, that in addition to his other qualifications for representin g a con stituency, large or small, he could boast the merit of having despised and abandoned the Whig-Radical faction) while yet they held the reins of power.—Times. A letter has been addressed by Mr. O'Connell to the members of " The National Association V Ireland," the name adopted by the Association lately constituted for the specific: purposes of obtaining equal, just, and satisfactory reforms of the Irish Church and Corporations. The lettel• most strenuously enforces the appeal already made to the whole population of Ireland—Protestants, Catholics, Pres byterians, and Dissenters—to associate, combine, and. use every censtitutional means to procure justice, complete, and equal justice, for their common country. The imposi tion by which the Tories would mislead the Enesh farmers its perSuadit ° s them th a t th e p rosper i ty of Irel.and i s incon sistent with theirs, is ably exposed by Mr, O'Connell, who shows (what is indeed evident to all psasessing the least knowledge of, international economy) tiaat the more the con sumption of Irish produce is increasesl in the Irish market by improving the condition of the population, the less competi tion will he given in the English market. The intense and im placable hatred manifesto; towards Ireland by the Tories, is traced to the blow ss . ni•A the Irish people have struck against that accursed. faction, as well in the accomplish ment of:the Cath' o li'e Emancipation Act, as in the great. and most efficiesit assistance afforded by them in effecting a Reform of Ose louse of Commons. These offences are mooardone:ole, and the fear that further jus ticeconcessionspotopular wo'.kl enable them to carry the p cs i v l a n nr e i i p nb i .e e l s government into more perfect operst on, is the true cause .oe n lf o and rio th u a b n t why the Tories would rather ris T k h c e i r v e il admit 'her to a full participation of the rights enjoyed by England mid Scotland. of the enthusiasm with which the people of Ire land will respond to Mr. O'Connell's Address, In, fact, they have already anticipated him, and the dif ficulty will not be to agitate, but to appease, Wrong and insult have been cast upon the Irish people, and much as they have already suffered—great as has been their for bearance—they have still sufficient sensibility to feel, and what is better, sufficient power to redress the atrocious policy pursued against them. Nothing short o f i nsan i ty could have induced the Lords and Tories to act as they have done.. Before the lapse of three months, they would gladly com promise on the terms already offered them ; but we trust that when agitation be once commenced, that it will net be suffered to subside, until full and equal justice be 'not only obtained by the people, but inflicted on the party whose crimes have caused so many calamities to the country. —Morning Advertiser. Mr. O'Connell has published his first letter to the " Na tional Association of Ireland," which he treats as an institu tion aetive, efficient, and independent. This is an O'Cou nell trick, the character of which may easily be perceivell:. It is scarcely, a week since the agitator issued his islands, to for the formation of this new Catholic Association, and lie is now beginning to address letters to it as a constituted body. Is it possible to imagine a circumstance which could show more clearly how confidently he relies upon the prompt obedience of his slaves 'f It is evident from the whole course of the proceedingthat Mr. O'Connell him self' is the new association, and the new association Mr. O'Connell, and that 'the whole matter is merely a contrivan ce 1,1 him, itt one character, to write letters to kaa ;:a another, to which he insolently expects that the. people of the three ki ng d oms w ill pay attention. There is a strong probability, we think, that this ambitious expectation will be disappointed, and that the great bulk of the people of the United Kingdom will regard the let ters of Mr. O'Connell to himself, and the speeches he: may make to his confederates and slaves in Ireland, wish the indifference which they deserve. In the letter now before us, there are only two passages worthy of remark. The Hon. and Learned Member for Kilkenny denounces as a crime the conduct of a majority of the Irish Judges, because, being of an age which would entitle them to as retiring pension, they do not secede from the bench, in order to enable him to dictate to his tools, Lord Met.- bourne, Lord J. Russell, Lord Mulgrave, ,nd Lord AI or petit, by whom their places shall be supplied. This is a specimen of his respect for a principle dear, and justly dear, to the heart of every intelligent and reflecting Britain, that of the independence of the Judges of the land. The administratio n of the law in Ireland would be eminently conducive, no doubt, to the peace and welfare of that country it' Mr. O'Connell were to enjoy the power- to which he aspires, of commanding its administrators to abdicates their seats whenever it suited him to nominate their so, es fact At by a in a not .)curl mlO that ands ;heir 3ncy Inter ould aper oter w•edi A. or h DSC hick toot" the lon. o his ress par sent ed fend ous, D of ven. tors was eats fair ws- UCS- lon. COM 0%V.- ;on& ; on ; to ber, ~Ingf or DM- fer ok m- Lii eh lie be 1