The Sun. — London, England, 1838-08-03 00:00:00

FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. (From the Times.) WARSAW, JULY 16.—NIv last, in which I informed you that the French Government had dem,unced to that of Russia the existenc , of a political conspiracy in this our unhappy Poland, o ill l..ave prepared yon for that which has occurred—the arrest of ‘'ast numbrrs of young moon, the sons of the most distinTuislied families, one of them the son of -- (a person who had tilled one of the first offic,s of the State) ; and yet this same French Government pro fesses sympathy for Poland, and to lean towards .great Britain rather than to Russia! PARIS. JULY 31.—The activity of the police has taken a new di.,•ction. Early this morning a number of agents, accompanied by a commissary of police, presented them selves at the residence of a M. Chactas, and took him into custody, and then proceeded to search his apartments. They found a number of copies of forged or falsified docu ments, purporting to have been written by diplomatic agents of France at Foreign Courts, and replies to them of Count Mole, Minister of Foreign Affaiis. M. Chactas is stated to have been long engaged in the manufacture of this species of document, for which he found a ready sale at the different foreign embassies in Paris. The foreign diplomatists are stated to have proved themselves veritablegobemouches, and generous caches d lait to M. Chac tas (who, you will remember, was convicted some time since of frauds committed by him on the Duke of Bruns wick). In tenderness to our own people, I shall not say all that I have heard about Lord Palmerston's swallow, and shall only communicate to you that which Chactas said respecting him— " I could not make them half so fast As he would gulp them down." An alleged dispatch of General Sebastiani on the Hol lando-Belgic question has been peculiarly productive to M. Chactas, the price of each copy being I,ooof. A dis patch of Count Bresson from Berlin has also been in much demand. I hope it has not found its way to Downing street ; but I have my fears, as Chactas was seen coming out of the British Embassy last Friday, and, with a very complacent air, pulling up the left-hand pocket of his Cos- sacks. CONSTANTINOPLE, JULY 11.—The Trebisond steam packet, which arrived here on the 9th, brought a letter from that port containing a highly ludicrous description of the rage the Russian Consul was thrown into upon learn ing, some days after Mr. Longworth's departure for Con stantinople, that this gentleman had, after escaping the vigilance of the Russian vessels blockading the coast of Circassia, safely landed in the ne;ghbourhood of Trebisond. Instead of adopting the wise course of showing himself in public indifferent to a fact which, however disagreeable, it was Ho longer in his power to prevent, the Russian repre sentative repaired to the Pasha's palace, and after loading this functionary with the severest reproaches for his neglect in carrying into execution the firman of the Porte, forbid ding all intercourse between the subjects of the Sultan and the Circassians, gave him to understand in a formal manner that the only satisfaction Russia could consider reparatory of his offence was the destruction of the vessel which had brought Mr. Longworth over from Circassia, and the confiscation of all the property on board; that Osman Pasha, in compliance with this imperative declaration, had the vessel brought in front of the harbour and caused it to be burnt. It will be remembered, perhaps, that in obedience to the Russian Consul's summons, Os man Pasha condemned the Turkish captain of the vessel which brought over Mr. Knight during last spring to pay a fine of 5,000 piastres. All these attempts on the part of Russia to inspire with the terror of her vengeance the per sons engaged in the profitable trade between Turkey and Circassia have so little succeeded in insuring the desired end, that within the week not less than six vessels have left this port for the Abasian coast. The letter from Mr. T. Bell, containing the account of the destruction of one half of the Russian naval forces in the Euxine on the 10th of June, which you will receive by this post, was brought on the 6th inst. to Trebisond by a Turkish boat. It remains to be seen to what fate the bearer of such heart-rending news will be condemned by the Russian Consul. The Turkish Rear-Admiral, Osman Bey, returned on the Sth inst. from Tunis, where he had proceeded to pre sent the Pasha with the firman of investiture from the Sul tan. He is bearer of presents of considerable value from the Pasha to his liege. The Rear. Admiral has received orders to join the Ottoman fleet, which was on thelOth inst. at Gallipoli, taking in provisions. The French fleet has left Ourlac, and is cruising off Chio. The four German physicians under whose superinten dence the quarantine establishments in Turkey are in fu ture to be placed, arrived here on the 10th, from Vienna, by the Gala& steam-packet. A fire which broke out in the neighbourhood of Sultan Mehmed's mosque on Saturday last, destroyed in the course of a few hours upwards 3f 100 Turkish houses. KHISSA, COAST OF CIRCASSIA, JUNE 14. The intelligence I have new to communicate is impor tant, but I must convey it in as few words as possible, for my time for writing is short. On the 10th, some clouds, thunder, and rain, announced a change of weather, and its threatening aspect increased until next morning, when a gale ceme on frard the S.W., which being " dead on shore" suggested to me the danger of the Russian squadrons. Word accordingly reached the secluded glen, at Shirotoach, where I then was, of a large brig having been seen off Soobash, and endeavouring to stand off to the Northward, but so close in with the land, that the cries of the men on board were distinctly heard on the beach. That night it blew from the same quarter such a gale as has not been known during summer since the year in which Anapa was taken. Yesterday persons ar rived at my quarters from both Northward and South ward, with the following disastrous accounts of the hostile squadron : At Scotcha, one ship of two tiers of guns, two corvettes, five large brigs, and two small craft have beeen wrecked. At Toaps and Agovia, two steamers (one of them the largest on the coast) and two men-of-war have been to tally wrecked, end eleven of the latter are stranded, and supposed to be so severely damaged as to be unfit for sea. Numerous dead bodies have been washed ashore, at all these Vaces, and the plunder in arms, damaged powder, iron, silver coin, &c., wtich has fallen into the hands of the Circassians, is infinite. At Scotcha the garrison of the new fort made two sor ties along the beach to defend the wrecks of the two cor vettes—the first during the n'gdit ineffectually ; the se cond the following morning, and with a still worse result, as the Cireassians then assembled, attacked, de feated, and pursued the soldiers to the very walls of the fort, which only about 100 entered, the rest, to the amount of about 1,000, having been all cut to pieces. Their bodies lie along the coast for a distance of about three miles ; and it is remarked, that among these there are none of the (forced) auxiliaries neither Abascian nor Georgian--all are Ru;sian. After plundering the two cor vettes, which were at a short distance to the southward of the fort, the Cireessians burnt them, the other vessels went on shore under its guns ; yet the Cireassians contrived to set fire to four of them last night. Such of the guns and stores of the rest as remain with the wrecks mey be re covered.. but the vessels thems.:lves are past all further ser vice. I think it likely, if such be not already, it must soon be, the case with the others 00 shore at Toaps and 2.govia, as the shore there is steep, - and it has this art , A.ncon come on to blow freshly from the south-west. The largest steamer had been the day before the gale at Too (a couple of hours north of Agovia), with a body of men who were landed to burn a Turkish vessel there, but were driven back without accomplishing their object. Seven other vessels are known to have been off Shapsine immediately previous to tie! gale, which having proved so fatal to all the rest exposed to its fury, it seems probable that these have net escaped. If so, 30 have thus Leen put hors de combat. J. S. THE FRENCH ARM Y. —General Bernard, Minister of War, has issued a circular to the Generals commanding the depart ment, re4ulating the order of precedence in public ceremonies of officers who have retired, or are not on active service, by which they are to take the some stations, according to their ranks, as they would do sere they on actual duty. Between the 21st and 28th nit, nineteen packets entered Boulogne with 881 passengers, and the same number with 773 sailed. DON FRANCISCO DR Patmo. A correspondent at La Ro chelle states, that besides the Infa teand s everal Spanish famdies have lately taken Infanta of Spain, up their residence there ; amongst others , the Duke of and Duchess in addi tion Ahumada. the Mar etdoness Mirafl ,res, and the. Marquis d e to whom may be mentioned, the D uke a de Brissac and family, and the Marchioness de Br a._ H FRIG TF UL ACCIDENT. —A few days ago, Y a friehtfu acci dent occurred to a workman em p loyed about a steam-engine in a manufactory at Elbeuf, where, as he was endeavouring to oil the wheels Of the machine while it was in motion, he was caught by his shirt sleeve, and drawn in between the cylinders, and had in a short tim e his arms and legs broken, and his body otherwise.so mutilated, that scarcely any hope can be en tertained of hia.xecovery. He has already had a leg and an arm amputated. DETERMINED SUICIDE._A gentleman of Toulouse, in his 75th year, put an end to his existence, a few days since, in the cemetery of Fumel, in that city , and on the tomb of his avtfe. He had formed .a kind of infernal machine, which went off by means of a train, and had placed it on his chest in such a manner that the upper part of his body was almust, blown to cause of his committing this act is not known, believed to have meditated self-destruction for DROWNING.—As some young men of La Chi), :h, in th e A veyron , were b a thing in a rapid ,ong since, one of them was carried away by its his comrades being able to give as;i.tance. An one of the party, had with him a favourite bitch breed, and the animal, on the first signal, id seized him by th e h a i r . Sh e l os t her hold, dived and caught the drowning youth by the AI h WSE The c was 134 .._:_ - j- l e:';''' c t e past BY 4, ....„,;... 1 . : p '.. , ,f .--,.... :a to , r. : 2 j 1 .:4:. 1 \•.:- ~_-,q- ,:, ii4ce,i7, i mut 1 ---:-.77%,„ an, c --':' ,/..i • e astiff g. ed in and AI a ev Qr, but hair again, and swam some six or seven yards with him to wards the shore. She was making the greatest effort to gain the bank, to the delight of the friend} of the young man, and would certainly have saved him, when he was seen to raise his hands ein% ulsively above the surface to grasp the dog, and im mediately both dog and man sank to rise no more. MURDER.— A barbarous murder was committed not many days hack on a man, near St. Andre, in the Pyrenees Oii cntales. The bo iy of the victim was found with forty nine w'unds in it, some of them eight or ten inches deep. It is stated that, notwithstanding this desperate condition, be had strength to crawl for some distance in the wood where the assassin had attacked him, before he died. The object of this ,turder was to get possession of the money which the victim possessed, and the deed was committed in the middle of the day. The Conseil d'Etat has definitively settled the statutes of the Paris and Orleans railroad company, a few not very im portant alterations having been made in those originally pro- posed. The Presse gives a table of the laws and ordinances de haute administration passed and published since the Revolution of 1830 up to the p-rqent time, of tvlii;•11 th , following is a summary :—Organic laws, 34 ; Political, 68; ?Administrative, 132; Financial, 126 ; Agricultural, Commercial, &c., 113; Ordinances, 465 ; besides a multitude of ordinances and laws of a local or private nature. IN s NITY FRANCE. —lt appears, from a statistical account of the hospital of Bicetre, that out of 800 insane persons now kept in it, 400 have been pronounced incurable. The mor tality among the insane is one in seven; and the average age of those who have died has been found to be 19 years. The average is 50 for females, as ascertained at the Salpetriere. The average stay in the hospital of the patients is about three years. The months during which the greater number die are the first five months of the year. The months in which the greatest number of patients are admitted are June and July. It is known that the human mind is subject to aberration at all ages, from 10 to 89 ; but the age in which madness most fre quently shows itself in men is from 30 to 39, and in women from 40 to 49. Last Saturday the rival steam-boat Companies who run vessels between London and Boulogne commented a compe. tition of a novel description. The owners of one vessel lately started advertised to convey passengers to London at one shilling per head, and another, not liking to be outdone, issued placards, announcing that they would take them at sixpence each. The regular fares are, how ever, still continued from London to Boulogne. the Magnet and Har leqztin carried upwards of 600 passengers last week to Boulogne from London ; among them were many distinguished foreigners, who had been on a coronation visit to England. MALTA, JULY 11.—Arrivals of Ships of War and Packets—July 4, the French steam-packet Dante, Lieutenant Ba yaud, from Syra ; 6th French steam-packet Mentor, Lieutenant Labrouse, from Marseilles, last from Naples ; 9th, Her Majesty's steam-packet Blazer, Lieutenant Waugh, from the lonian Islands; Dutch brig-of war Mercury, Commander R. E. Tunning, from Tripoli. Departures of Ships of War and Packets—July 7, French steam.packet Scamandre, Lieutenant Maffre, for Marseilles; Her Majesty's frigate Sapphire, Captain Rowley, for England; Sth, French steam-packet Tancrede, Lieutenant Besson, for Syra ; 9th, Dutch brig-of-war Mercury, Commander R. E. Tunning. In Port—The Ceylon, bearing the pennant of Commodore Sir John Louis, Bart.; Asia,• 84 ; Wasp, 16 ; steam packets Spitfire and Blazer ; and French steam.packets, Mentor and Dante. Tuesday afternoon, as the Gipsy, a Greenwich steamer, was going down the River, an engineer, named John Hawksby, a passenger on board, who was sitting on the rail in the forepart of the vessel, fell overboard into the river, nearly opposite the Thames Police office, at Wapping. The vessel was proceeding at full speed at the time, and before it could be stopped the unfortunate man was drawn under the paddle-box, and most seriously cut by the wheel. He managed, however, to keep himself above water until the crew of a Thames Police galley picked him up. He was taken to the London Hospital. He is net expected to survive. He states that a person was collecting the fares when the occurrence happened, and that as he was about to pay his money he fell back into the water, and that no blame was attributable to the people on board the steam vessel. THE LATE VICTORIA STEAM-BOILER EXPLO stox.—Yesterday morning. at eleven o'clock, the investigation relative to the late calamitous steam-boiler explosion on board of the Viceoria steamship, was resumed for the sixth time at the Watermens' Arms, Shadwell, before Mr. Baker, the Coroner, and Jury. T he room h was crowded. Mr. Hall, of the Hull Steam - p acket Company, to whic ill-fated vessel b.,longed, was present; and also Mr. Jacobs, solicitor, on the part of the Company, to watch the proceedings. After a great deal of discussion, it was agreed that another adjournment should take place till the surviving sufferer had recovered. The inquiry was accordingly adjourned till Tuesday. the 14th of August next. The Jury were seve rally bound over in the amount of 401. to appear on that day. Tuesday morning, as a poor man named Jameson was working on a scaffolding at a house in Wimpole.street, which is at present undergoing repair, he missed his footing, and was precipi tated to the ground, a distance of upwards of thirty feet. His right arm and leg were mutilated to such a degree that Mr. Corbett, the surgeon, to whom he was taken, pronounced immediate amputation to be abso- lutely necessary. THE TREACHEROUS FAIR.--A young man, no a hundred miles from Middlewich, courted an elderly spinster of the same place. For some time matters went on smoothly, and so corn. pletely had she gained the confidence of her lover, that he entrusted her with a sum of money to keep till their wedding-day. Some weeks after an altercation took place, which ended in mortal enmity on the part of the female. She had not the honesty to return the money to the owner ; but pursued a different plan, which would at once gratify her revenge upon the offending lover, and procure another husband. She accord ingly made overtures to a youth, on whose juvenile senses her show of wealth, and the felicity it promised, acted so powerfully that he at once consented to be her partner for life. Witfi the money given by her former beau the license wasbottght, with the adjuncts necessary on com mencing a married life ; and they were united in the indissoluble bands a few days ago. This conscientious and amiable creature is about forty years of age ; her youthful husband is sixteen:—Maceleefield Courier. CITY OF LONDON LYING-IN HOSPITAL, CITY ROAD.—The half.yearly general meeting was held at the Hospital on the 'sth instant ; Joshua Hobson, Esq„ V.P., in the chair. The committee, in their report, stated that the admission of patients had been so great during the past half year as to require all additional ward to be fitted up, and that the numbers were greater than at any period since the foundation of the hospital, and, consequently, the expenditure of the institution had been greatly increased. GLOUCESTER MUSIC MEETING —The Stewards of the approaching musical festival are taking every pains to melte it the most attractive meeting ever witnessed in Gloucester. Frequent meetings of the Stewards have taken place both in London and in the country ; the most minute particulars have not escaped their notice, which could, in the slightest degree, add lorilliancy to the meeting— order and regularity in the arrangements, and comfort and convenience to the visitors. The very first talent in England. both vocal anti in. strumental, with a power in the orchestra hitherto unprecedented in our Cathedral—perhaps the best adapted to music in the kingdom. A new plan has been devised for increasing and improving the accommo dation for refreshments at the evening concerts by flooring over the Crown Court to a level with the galleries, and using it as a refreshment room, thus avoiding the inconvenience experienced on former occasions ofgoing up and clown stairs and through cold passages to the County and City Grand Jury rooms, which will, on this occasion, Le furnished with (very convenience, as cloak and shawl rooms. The performances arc to be extended to four days, and the whole will conclude with a grand fancy and full dress ball and supper, for which Weippartli celebrated band is expressly engaged. The arrangements of the Cathedral, shire hall, and court, will be executed under the superintendence of Mr. Thomas Fulljames, architect, the county surveyor. There will be an inclined plane reaching from the floor of the nave to the great western window of the cathedral, in which the seats will bo so arranged as to give the increased comfort of a back to each scat, and from their being secured to the holder of a numbered ticket will give the convenience of easy legless and egress at any period of the performances. The whole of the seats in the Shire.hall will possess similar advantages. A ballot for priority in choice of these seats will take place a week or ten days previous to the meeting, on the plan adopted on similar occasions at Manchester and Birmingham. It is intended to give a new and bril liant effect to the evening performances by introducing a considerably increased volume of light by means of eight or ten chandeliers of wax candles, instead of three, as used on former occasions. With such im proved arrangement, and with such a musical treat as is offered by the names of Grisi, Lablache, Ivenhoff, and Brabant, we cannot but anti cipate the fullest success to the very excellent charity, in aid of the fund for which tile mcetings of the three chairs have been engaged.— Wilts Standard. On blonds} night, a horse that had trespassed on the Grand Junction' Railway at %Vinwick Quay was overtaken by one of the Birmingham trains. All the carriages, with the engine, went over the animal, which was cut to pieces. No further damage was done, and luckily the train was net thrown of the /too/ Chrome*. It has been said of Franklin, that '• in his publi c character, his words and his actions were ever at variance with each other." In his fist interview with Lord Chatham (which was during the intercourse with Lord Howe), upon Lord Chatham mentioning an opinion prevailing here, that America aimed at setting up for itselfe3 an independent state, Franklin says, " I assured him that having more than mice travelled almost frost one end of the Continent to the other, and kept a great variety of company, eating, drinking, and conversing with them freely, I never had heard in any conversation, from any person, drunk or sober, the least expression of a wish for a separation, or hint that such a thing would be advantageous to America." Jonathan Boucher, indeed, says, that " of any settled plan to overturn the Govern ment at the beginning of the contest, Franklin should be acquitted. Such a plan had for years been formed by a Junto in the northern colo nies ; but they did not at first think him a proper man to be entrusted with so important a secret." But after such a plan had been explicitly avowed, as it was in the " American Whig" nine years before the final breach, in a paper ascribed to Mr. Livingston, it is scarcely possible that Franklin should have been ignorant of what was preparing and ex pected.—Life of Admiral Lord llowc.—Quarterly Review. ROYAL BERKSIIIRE HORTICULTURAL SO' CIETY.—The third show of this Society was held at the Castle-yard, Wallingford, on Wednesday last, and although the morning was some what unfavourable, the attendance of visitors was highly flattering to the managers of this useful institution The general arrangements of the committee gave unbounded satisfaction to the company, and the various specimens entered for competition far exceeded, both in num. ber and quality, those of any previous show at this season of the year. The carnations and pieuties were of the best character. A collection from the garden of Mr. Willmer, of Sunbury, Middlesex, were parti cularly admired, and it is understood that this spirited and talented florist has been recommended by the umpires as worthy, to receive the Royal medallion. The large tent was tastefully decorated with choice plants, from the conservatories of several gentlemen connected with the Society. A profusion of cut flowers, of rare and beautiful va rieties, from the garden of R. Beynon De Beauvoir, Esq., the respected President of the Society, excited great interest, having been tastefully applied in the general decoration of the tent. The useful productions of cottage gardens were beyond all praise, and the umpires, at the ex. press desire of the committee, trebled the number and amount of prizes which have been given at former shows to the industrious and worthy exhibitors.—Reading Mercury. UMBRELLA SOCIETY IN PARIS.—We are told t ado n :h a ,p , on a si :I nt f m c p au translated reh:oe wcld .fhalfi tf every ref nTn y e. a.n man ' s ibiaih:rriaeecasibnitjaodummbileaahbyya° fixede lbfb n e e s s t t b t. established in Paris, called the Parapluie d address e m s : Umbrella given, So ciety."en, There‘rmawyns tht,aei c f o cal r a n cy e rd r o owfnt,ll being city left where t guarantee the return of the a e r ob t r i ° cl for a b few sous—a the umbrella is sent fur next morning,• or it may be returned, and the deposit recovered at any of the stations. The horses in Norway have a very sensible manner of taking their food. Instead of swilling thetelselves like ours with a pailful of water at a draught, no doubt from the fear of not getting any again, and then overgorging them selv e s w ith dry food for the same reason, they have a bucket of water put down besides their arowanee of hay. It is amusing to see with what relish they take a sip of the one and a mouthful of the other alternately, sometimes only moistening their mouths as a rational being would do while eating a dinner of such dry food. A broken-winded horse is scarcely ever known in Norway. THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY, AUGUST 3, 1838. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF COMMONS. AUGUST 2. The SFEAKER took the Chair at Four o'Clock. LETHBRIDGE'S DIVORCE BILL. The House went into Committee on this Bill. Mr. Ser geant Nlerewear:r, addr.s;ed the Committee un bahalf of the petitioner for the Bill, and it was reported without amendment. Mr. JAMES presented a petition against encouragement to Indian idolatry. Mr. EGERTON and several other lion. Members pre sented similar petitions. Mr. PUSSY presented a petition against the Parochial Assessments Bill from the clergy of the diocese of Win chester. Captain ALS AG ER presented a petition from the Arch deaconry of the Ea , tern Division of the county of Surrey against the Parochial Assessments Bill. The LORD ADVOCATE brought up the Report on the Sheriff's Court ( Scotland) Bill. Mr. WALLACE seeing the Lord Advocate in his place, Leg6ed 'to ask lilm a question rely; ive to the Clerk of the Jus tices of the Peace in Scotland. He found that that °dicer received no less than 131. r. day for his services, which he con sidered most exorbitant. Such being the case, he bagged to ask the Noble Lord whether a copy of the warrant by which that appointment was made could not be seen by Hon. Members, in order that the matter might be officially taken notice of. The LORD ADVOCATE said it was perfectly compe_ tent to the Hon. Member to move for a copy of the warrant, if he thought fit. Lord SANDON presented a petition from Studeley against the enema agement of idolatrous worship in India. Mr. WALLACE gave notice of a motion for to-morrow, for a copy of the warrant of the appointment of the Clerk to the Justices of Scotland. PRIVATE BILLS DEPOSIT BILL. On the Order of the Day for the report on this Bill, Mr. P. THOMSON said its object was, that deposits on public works, instead of being placed in the hands of the Clerk of the House, should be committed to an officer created by Act of Parliament. The Report on the Militia Ballot Suspension Bill was re ceived. The Slave Trade ( Sicily) Bill was read a third time and passed. The Slave Trade (Tuscany) Bill was also read a third time and passed. The Transfer of Funds (War-office) Bill, was read a third time and passed. The Affirmation of Oaths Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed to-morrow. The Militia Pay Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. The Stamp Dies Bill and the Valuation (Ireland) Bill were also read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. The Forms of Pleading Bill was read a third time and passed. CORPORATION (IRELAND) BILL. Lord JOHN RUSSELL then moved the Order of the Day for the consideration of the Lords' amendments to the Corporation ( Ireland) Bill. He was very glad the House of Lords had not adopted the course it pursued in 1836, by send ing back a Bill stating that the people of Ireland were not fit to enjoy the liberties that had been given to the people of England and Scotland. In the present instance they had admitted that Corporations might exist to a certain extent in some of the towns of Ireland, at. the same time they had made such extensive alterations in that Bill that in its present shape it could, not be accepted by the House of Commons. The exclusion of many and the introduction of 92 new Clauses—( Hear, hear)—the alteration of many others in such a manner as to give them a different purport and ten dency—(Cheers)—all these, besides other reasons, showed that the House of Lords, in their great zeal for the objects which they had in view, hnd not given sufficient attention to the alterations which they had made. According to the votes and proceedings of that House, he saw that they had paid great attention to the Irish Poor-law Bill, but from all he could learn, though the Municipal Bill had been away from that House for more than a month, they had not spent six hours in deliberating upon such very considerable alterations. —(Cheers.) He would, therefore, propose that they should lay their reasons for disagreeing with the amendments, in order that the Lords might have another opportunity for more mature deliberation. The Irish Reform Act had preserved to the freemen the right of voting. But there existed in the city of Dublin a sort of anomalous right of. voting dependent on the consent of the Corporation, and it seemed the object of the Lords in their amend ment, to interpose words, which, under cover of carrying out the Corporation Act, should give the right of voting for Mem bers of Parliament, to persons who otherwise would not enjoy that right. —(" No, no," from Sir Robert Peel.) Then the Right Hon. Baronet could have no objection to make the Bill in this respect conformable to the Irish Reform Act.—( Sir R. Peel : —" Hear, hear ; and the English Municipal Act.") The Noble Lord proceeded to state that there appeared a studied desire on the part of the Lords to preserve certain persons in power in the Corporations which it was the object of this Bill to do away with.—( Hear, hear.) By the clauses which bad been introduced with respect to charitable trustees, it was proposed that the powers hitherto enjoyed should be preserved to the Members of the old Corporations till Parliament should otherwise determine. By that means their powers might be preserved during their lives. Several of the other clauses had the same object in view. Another change had been introduced, by which the present Town Council were allowed to mortgage the property of the Corporation to pay the debts of the previous Corporation, and the probable result of that would be, that the whole of the Cor poration property would be mortgaged. — ( Hear.) as such a state of things desirable? He was speaking with suspicion, of those bodies—(Cheers) —and he was fully entitled to do so—(Cheers) --for they were condemned not only by the votes of that House, but also of the House of Lords, not only in the present Session but in 1836, when they were anxious to correct the abuses then existing, and they could find no other remedy far such abuses than abolishing them altogether.—( Loud cheers.) Among the new clauses, 180 and 181 provided that Town Clerks, Chamberlains, weigh masters, and other officers were to retain their offices, notwithstanding the Act abolished the Corporations in so far as all the boroughs in schedule 8., so that those persons hay_ ing been appointed under abuse, the Bill then provided that such abuse was still to exist. By some other clauses, the watching of the towns would be placed in Commis sioners under some local Act, and not under the Council to be appointed under the Bill.—(hear*, hear.) Care was taken by the amendments of the Lords to take the watching of the towns, and many other functions were taker, from the new Corporations. Now he (Lord John Rus sell) could conceive that to preserve as much power as possible to the old Corporations, and to give as little as possible to the new, was the narrow-minded — ( llear) in some, perhaps the interested—( Hear, hear) —and in others probably the fictious objects of those who were concerned in maintaining the exclusive privileges of the old Corporations. —( Hear, hear.) But it was to be considered by the Commons of England, and by Parliament generally, if the peace and vs elfare of these tow ns, arid the prosperity of Ireland, was to be consulted by such provisions.—( Hear, hear.) The apprehen. sion entertained by the " Conservative " party was , that the party-feeling of these towns would be opposed t o their to and that the Corporations would become schoo ls of political agitation ; now was not the best way for guarding a gainst this danger, to give the inhabitants subjects of local interest, on which to employ their exertions ?—( Hear.) The rule for the selec tion of the Town Councils would not, then, be the religion or the politics of the parties, but their capacity for attending to the business which was to be entrusted to their cart.—( [lean. ) Such would Le the eff ct if they were given real franchises, but if they were deprived of municipal rights, then there a desire anise to become political bodies. With respect to many of the other alterations in the Bill, he did not consider them of so strong a nature as to call for objection to what had been dune by the House of Lords. One of those alterations was the con fining of the municipal franchise to about twelve towns. There were likewise introduced in the Bill clauses and pro visions with respect to the boundaries in those towns. The chief objection he had to them was, that the House would have no opportunity of considering those clauses except in the light of amendments, while, in his opinion, they ought to form matter for another Bill. The Noble Lori was here interrupted by a Message from the House of Lords, informing the House that they had agreed to a Conference with respect to the amendments in the She riff,' Courts ( Scotland) Bill. The Lord Advocate, Mr. Wallace, and others, were ap pointed to manage the Conference on the part of the House. After an absence of half an hour, they returned and reported that they had left the Bill, with the reasons, in the hands of their Lordships. Lord J. RUSSELL then went on to say, that with re gard to the franchise, a very important. alteration had been made in the Bill by the Lords. The M. rating franchise had been changed to a 101. rating franchise, and twelve months' occupancy was required. Now, in this re si‘ect there was a very wonderful correspondence be tween the amendments of the Lords, and a Bill which bad been introduced into the House by Sergeant Jackson, Sir William Follett, and Mr. E. Tennent, requiring twelve months residence as a qualification for voting, at Parliamer.tary elections.—( Herr, hear.) This remarkably exemplified the general principle which always induced that party to resist every measure for extending the franchise ; and to adopt every proposition which tended to limit and to restrict the franchise.—( Hear.) He would now state what course he proposed to follow with regard to the amendments. With r e g ard to all those which w ent to maintain to the mem bers of the present bod y cor p orate cer t a in authorities which th e y now p ossessed, and w hich w English Act,be should prop ose to dis agreeee tot rioti hemn the. could be admitted whil e they rtltnever were proposing to reform Corporations; that they should grant extensive power to those very parties they proposed to supersede. With regard to the clauses giving Corporations the g reater he did not only oomb t e o r a o s f mal t l ow n o u s mb i e a r o a f t d o i w ffe n r s e , ot and seh le e a d v o i l n e g , propose to disagree with the principle of that altera tion ; he agreed with the principle of giving the towns in schedule A Corporations, and placing others in schedule B, upon the understanding that at a future period they might apply for municipal rights—but he objected to a great number of clauses which gave power to Commissioners, where no application - was made. lie thought that within a certain time the provisions of the 9th of George the Fourth should apply to those towns. With respect to the boundary clauses, he did not propose to oppose them, but he thought it would be necessary to qualify them, and therefore he would propose that the Lord Lieutenant in Council, upon applica tion should have power to add suburbs in some cases, and to alter the wards. The clauses respecting charities he I would propose to restore to the same state as when they left that House. He had then to approach the subject of the franchise, and in doing so he was very happy to be fortified in his opinion by what had fallen on former occa sions from the Noble Lord (Eliot), the Member for Corn wall, the Honourable Member for Guildford ( Mr. B. Wall) and others who ,generally voted contrary to himself.—(llear. ) Many lion. Gentlemen opposed to the Government held that rating under the Poor-law was not the best mode of obtaining a real bone file value. Ile (Lord J. Russell) did lint object to taking in the rating, but he did not think that alone it would furnish an exact test of value.—( Hear.) The Noble Lord went into some calculations showing that the ratine would not alone furnish a correct criterion of the real annual value of a house. It would not be wise, in his opinion, to take the proposed rating of the House of Lords, as it would make the franchise uncertain. Ile proposed that the House should take a sum in lieu of repairs, insurance, rates, and taxes. By that plan an 81. rating would give a qualification of 101. if this proposition was stated to be too low, it would be open to Irish Members to say, give us the provisions of the English and Scotch 1111!;, and do not intake any dis tinction with respect to Ireland. He had made these conces sions in the hope that the question would be set at rest. All the question of the Church having ben set at rest it was too bad to hold out upon a Municipal Bill. It was not showing either fairness or generosity to the people of Ireland. He trusted that he might yet be allowed to get the Bill passed, at least upon the same principle as they had passed the Bills for Scotland and Englantl.—(Cheers.) Sir ROBERT PEEL—Sir, I should have been perfectly contented to discuss each amendment proposed by the House of Lords on the introduction of the individual clauses on which they were made, and I cannot help thinking that that course would have been infinitely better than that taken by the Noble Lord. But the Noble Lord has taken a course which pre cludes me from following that which my own sense of expedi ency directed, and has indulged in a needless, an unjustifiable, and, in my opinion, an unwise sarcasm against the House of Lords.—(Cheers.) I think that 'if it were possible to throw an obstruction in the way of a settlement of this question the Noble Lord would have done it by his speech and his sarcasms. He has charged the Noble Lords with intending to withhold corporations from the Irish people. —(" Hear, hear," and " No," from Lord John Russell.) I beg the Noble Lord's pardon, lam quoting his own words. He said, " altogether withholding corporations, because the people of Ire land are unworthy." The Noble Lord did not put the withholding corporations by the House of Lords on its true grounds.—( Hear, hear.) Those grounds were, that seeing the state of society in Ireland—seeing the conflicts of parties—the Lords did entertain an opinion that, while they were willing to relinquish the old corporations, they thought it would be better, taking everything into consideration, not to establish new ones.—Hear, hear, hear.) When the Lords found that this course did not agree with the general feeling, they became willing to grant new corporations on the terms now before the House. I think the Noble Lord might have spared his sarcasm, when the House of Lords had shown such a desire to conciliate the national feeling.—(Cheers.) But when I recollect the numberless changes of opinion that have taken place in this House with reference to Irish measures— ( Hear, bear, and cheers)—when I recollect having heard most favourable opinions with respect to Poor-laws from Hon. Gentlemen who are now its most strenuous opposers, and who now think that the establishment of a‘ Poor-law in Ireland would be sufficient to justify a dissolution of the Union ; when I recollect the discussions that have taken place with refe rence to the Irish Church ; and when I think what was the course of the Noble Lord himself in receding from opinions he had so long maintained ; with all these fresh in my recol lection, I think the Noble Lord is the last quarter from which I might expect any sarcasm on those who for the sake of peace are willing to make a sacrifice of their opinions.—( Hear, and cheers.) Then, Sir, I deny that the Noble Lord has given a just description of the Bill the Lords have sent down. First, as to the general purpose I will show you that in every clause the Noble Lord has misrepresented.—( Hear, hear.) He says that the Bill the Lords have sent down no longer preserves the principle of Corporations, by making their possession optional with the towns. I quote the Noble Lord's words, and I ask the House is that a just description of the Lords' amendments ?—( Hear, bear.) So far from allowing certain towns to have Corporations on application, the purport and effect of the amended Bill is this, that in the eleven principal towns of Ireland no discretion whatever is given ; it is made obligatory on them to have Corporations. —( lean ) Does it withhold them in the cases of other towns ? No ; it enables every town in Ireland with, I be lieve, 3,000 inhabitants, to apply for a charter of ineorpora. tion.—( Hear, hear.) And if in any town, whether now pos sessed of corporate authority, or that never had a Corpora tion, a majority of ten householders shall think it for the ad vantage of the town that either the old Corporation shall be continued or a new Corporation granted, in that case there is full authority given to the Chief Governor of Ireland to accede to the wishes of the inhabitants, and to con tinue or to grant a Corporation founded on the principle ap plicable to the eleven towns to which the Corporations ale compulsory. The Noble Lord then proceeded to comment on the changes made in the House of Lords, and says that no less than ninety-two new Clauses have been inserted in the Bill sent down by the Lords. Why, Sir, in the first place, let me remark. that the Lords have incorporated in the 13111 the whole of the Boundary Bill of the 'notice of Commons. And by whose authority did the Boundary Commissioners act? They %lore appointed by the Noble Lord himself.-- (Hear, hear.) He gave them instructions, and established eir boundaries, and - the Lords were perfeetlycontent w the plans adopted by the Commissioners, .and have adopted them.—( Hear, hear.) The Lords thought it desirable to in. corporate them in the Bill relating to Corporations. The Noble Lord makes objection to this ; but, if I mistake not, another Noble Lord at the head of the Government has distinctly admitted that the introduction is a great im provement,--( Hear, hear.) Well, that accounts for some of the addition, and I cannot help thinking it quite as convenient when we are establishing new Corporations, that we should be able to refer to the Bill itself for the pupose of ascertaining the boundaries. Of course it was necessary to introduce a great tr number of clauses into the Bill than it originally con tained. The House of Lords has introduced those clauses for the purpose of giving effect to the general outline which some weeks since I sketched as the principle on which the party with which I act would be likely to agree to the pass ing of the Bill ; and I must say that, notwithstanding the altered tone which the Noble Lord, for some purpose or another, has now adopted, he did not originally apply any objection to my plan.—( Hear, hear.) It was not objected to by any one then; it was known that we were making great sacrifices to reconcile conflicting opinions, that we had to soothe prejudices and feelings, and the impression of the Noble Lord, and of Honourable Members on his side of the House then was, that we had gone much further than could have been expected for the purpose of reconciling these differences.—(" Hear, bear," and " No, no," from the Minis terial benches.) At all events, the opinion then was far dif ferent from that now expressed, for it was then agreed, reserv ing a perfect right to enter into details, that no insuperable objection existed to the plan proposed to give Corporations to eleven towns, and universally, if the people desired them. The clauses introduced by the Lords were then abso. lutely necessary. The Noble Lord also says that considerable time was taken up in discussing the Poor-law, and none in discussing the Municipal Bill Whose fault was that?— ( Hear, hear.) Whose fault was it that the Corporation Bill was sent up on the 28th of June ?—( Hear, hear.) By whom was it that at that time of the session, when it was perfectly notorious that the press of business would take place, the Co ronation was fixed ?—( Cheers.) You (addi essing Lord John Russell) fixed it for the 28th, at the time when you knew the attention of Parliament would be most required for the busi ness of the nation.—(Cheers.) Who is there who could not of course foresee that while thus fixing the Coronation, and in the sen.ling invitations to every country in Europe to send their representatives to do honour to the Sovereign of Eng land, the natural desire of all here to honour those who were thus honouring our Sovereign, would render it most difficult to direct attention to business? For this reassri those who fixed the Coronation for the 28th of June are responsible if the Municipal 13111 did not receive the required attention.— ( Hear. ) But whose fault is it if the Bill was not discussed in the Lords ? These who proposed the amendments had no occasion to discuss them; they naturally expected opposition to come from the other side.--( Cries of " Hear, hear.) Why did not the Noble Lord's colleagues in the Upper House consider in detail the amendments, and, if defective, point out the defects ? Where was the Lord Chancellor and the other law authorities? Public notice was given that the clauses would be moved ; they were to have been opposed on the third reading. Why was that intention departed from ? ( Hear, hear.) And still the Noble Lord blames the House of Lords for not giving sufficient time for discussion.—( Hear, hear.) But that is not all. Why. if objections were felt as strongly as the Noble Lord now feels them, why did not the head of the Government himself propose the third reading of the Bill ?—( Cheers.) Why did he not refuse to move the third reading of the Bill until the clauses should be amended? —(fares, hear.) Seeing that none of these things were done, I must say that the Noble Lord's attack on the House of Lords with respect to not allowing sufficient time for delibe ration, is unfounded, and that his sarcasm is, in other respects, perfectly unjustifiable.—( Hear.) I come now, Sir, to the spe cification of clauses in respect of which the Noble Lord founded grave charges against the House of Lords. He says, " I shall now enumerate a long succession of clauses not individually important, but by their accumulation proving a lurking desire on the part of the Lords to vitiate the principle of the Bill by retaining for the present Corporations all the power it is possible to retain, and to throw discredit on the new Corpora tions by withholding the functions to which they would pro perly be entitled." The Noble Lord has indeed truly said that he views this Bill with great suspicion, for he comments on its points with manifest injustice. I do not know that lago has been nourishing his baneful passion, but this I know, that I never saw a gentleman in public life labour under such an accumulation of jealous pangs as the Noble Lord. —( Cheers.) Now, to show the degree of misconstruc tion the Noble Lord has put on various clauses, I shall first take the four first clauses of the amended Bill. The Noble Lord charges the House of Lords with retaining by these clauses the freemen in certain towns in Ireland, particularly in the city of Dublin, and with giving them certain pri vileges beyond those to which they are entitled by the Bill for the Reform of the Representation. Now, Sir, a great part of the objections which the Noble Lord had ap plied to the amendments of the• Lords may be applied to va rious clauses in his own Bill, but he is so blinded by his sus picion and his jealousy, that in attempting to put an injurious construction on the work of the Lords he has wounded himself, and entitled his own clauses to a share of the blame.—( Hear.) Sir, I disclaim altogether, on the part of the House of Lords, any intention to secure for the freemen of Dublin any privileges to which they would not have ben entitled if this Act had n,,t been altered. Of course necessary alterations have been in .. troduced by the Lords, because they had to provide for cases in which Corporations, should be extinguished, a,(l none sub stituted. It is generally admitted that the rights of f:cemen should be preserved, whether the Corporations existtd or n•ii, and therefore it became necessary that in cases not contem plated by the original Bill—those of towns in which Corpora tions should he extinguished—the Lords should plovide f(:- the rights of the freemen. The Noble Lord did rnu, re,,cl the clauses on which he relied as exhibiting the animus of the House of Lords: I have read them over, and I coidess I cat:- not perceive where they substantially differ from his own clauses. Take care that the Noble Lord is not attributing to the House of Lords the very words he himself had p: e viously adopted. He says the Lords have inserted the words, " hereafter may be entitled." his own words are, " Every person who, if this Act had not passed, would have been en titled to enjoy, or hereafter may be entitled, either by birth, marriage, or service, to enjoy'the privileges of a freeman, or of voting for it on election for a Member of Parliament frr city, town, or borough, shall be entitled to all such right as fully as if this Act had not passed."—(Loud cheers ) lam only showing the injustice of these charges of the Noble Lord, and I have no hesitation in saying that if any equi vocal words have been put in by the House of Lords, I dis claim on their parts any intention of preserving to freemen any privileges to which they would not have been cutitAd under the Reform Act. For these reasons I do not de spair of an amicable adjustment of these four clauses, unless, indeed, the Noble Lord should view his own bantling with a degree of jealousy so great as to render it impossible he could receive it from those crafty men who have done so much harm. - Laughter.) Now, a• with respect to the powers reserved in old Corporations, the Noble Lord says the old Corpora tions are maintained in important municipal functions. I do find that a distinction is made between charity trusts and mu nicipal trusts, and different provisions made in cases where the trustees of charities are Corporators ; but the Noble Lord himself makes a similar distinction, for he does not devolve the trusteeship of the charities on the new Corporators. He establishes a clear distinction between municipal functions and charity trusts.--( Hear.) He enacts that in cases where Cor porators may be trustees for a charity, they shall be main tained in the trust for a limited time, and at the expiration of that time the Lord Chancellor shall proceed to appoint new ones ; thus establishing a new distinction between municipal functions and charity trusts, and providing that in all cases the Lord Chancellor, not the Corporations, shall succeed. I admit there is some difference between the Noble Lord and us, but not upon this point. We make the provision respecting cha rity trusts because I think it highly important that the whole subject of charity trusts should be reserved, and that Parliament should legislate anew upon the subject. We have given up to the Lord Chancellor the power of filling up vacancies as they occur, but not the power of absolutely and at once appointing to all the trusts. I must say for one that I will most readily consent to any arrangement that can be made to prevent charity trusts being perverted to political purposes, for it is my duty to say that, Parli?ment having made a provision with respect to charity trusts in England, I am not satisfied with the conse quences of that arrangement, and think that political feeling has influenced the management of those trusts.—( Hear, hear.) It is on that account, and as the result of experience, that I dissent from the principle that on a certain day the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, who is himself a politician, and connected with Government, shall have the appointment to all these charity trusts. I say that another arrangement would be more satisfactory to me—one that will prevent charity trusts being perverted to political purposes.—( Hear, hear.) This is the point on which we differ. I know it has been said that under pretence of retaining the powers over charity trusts to the old Corporations for a certain time we had gone much further, and included trusts not of a charitable nature. Here, again, I can only disclaim any such intention. The Noble Lord refers to clause 75. lam perfectly willing—but this is open to objection, but those who complain of it did not come fairly to the purport of the clause—l am perfectly wil ling to admit that these words in clause 50, lines one and two, " That in every borough in which the body corporate, or any member or members thereof, is or are trustees for any purpose other than charitable uses," seem to imply, and in fact do enact, that the old Corporations shall have reserved to them other than charitable trusts ; but I can only state that immediately after the Bill passed the Lords the error was discovered, the cause of it being that the amendment was copied from the old Bill. I can only say that, if the objection had escaped the Noble Lord, I was prepared with an amendment for the pur pose of clearing up the doubt, and preventing any extension of the power to trusts other than charitable. lam extremely thankful to the House for the attention with which these de tails are listened to, but it is of the utmost importance that a speech likely to produce such an effect in Ireland should be answered. It is absolutely necessary that I should go through these charges and exhibit their falseness. Now this has also been remarked—that the word charity has a technical sense much more extensive titan that in common acceptation—that it includes the pipe water. I am no lawyer, and I can as sure the House that when I said charity I had no intention of including pipe water.—( A laugh.) In point of fact and law, pipe water may be a charitable trust ; but I confess that I never was so surprised in my life as to see this morning that pipe water was a charity trust. I can only say, that no de. sign of the kind imputed entered the heads of the artful men of whom the Noble Lord is so jealous, nor had they any in tion of confiding the pipe water to the Corporations. But the Bill of the Noble Lord does this ; it enacts that charitable trusts shall be considered apart from municipal functions, and if, by general construction, pipe water means charity, of course the new Corporations are excluded by the Bill of the Noble Lord.--( Loud cheers.) If, however, the term have the meaning stated, I ant perfectly willing to consent to any amendment which shall exclude any trust partaking of the character of a municipal trust. The next point to which the Noble Lord came was this. He says that a great alteration has been made by the House of Lords in the clause which defines the purposes to which the property is to be applied. He says that in England we imply confidence in the new Cor porations, by consenting that they should have controul over the municipal funds, untied by any obligation, and thus be able to consult the good of the inhabitants, but that in Ire land we take a different course ; that we propose to limit the purposes to which the surplus Corporation revenues are to be applied. What does the Noble Lord himself provide ? " That in all boroughs, if, after all payments of municipal expenses necessary for carrying into effect this Act, the funds shall prove more than sufficient, they shall be applied to the pur poses aforesaid." Of course the House imagines, from the statement of the Noble Lord, that he had taken a comprehen sive view, and given the Corporations entire and exclusive con troul over their property ; but so far from that being the case, it is expressly provided in the Bill that in every case, except the city of Dublin, the surplus property of the Corporation shall not be applied to the purposes of the Corporation ; but, in the first instance, be applied to the paving, lighting, and cleansing of the streets, and afterwards to such otner pur pose as the Noble Lord himself shall prescribe. We retain his words ; the only alteration we make is this—that the principle he thinks good for every other town in Ire land shall be applied to the city of Dublin—( Hear, hear, hear)—and that, in case of a surplus revenue, it shall not be applied to e political purpose, but to pur posss of public improvement. This is the ground on which he differs from us, and thinks that the House of Lords is actu ated by a crafty purpose. When I stated in this House that I trusted the House of Lords would support me in this princi ple, I can only say that the principle met with unanimous assent, and no suspicion but that the prevision was absolutely right, and, I must say, warranted by the experience of most Corporations.—( Hear, hear.) Now we come to another to pic, clause 97. The Noble Lord in commenting on this lost all self-possession. Ile said, " Here you make a mockery of Ireland. Both Houses had condemned the existing Corpora tions arid passed enactments, tying them up from disposing of their property ; but now the Lords have introduced a clause which shall enable them during the interval to deal abso lutely with their property, and that, too, for purposes other than municipal." I never was more surprised than to hear this statement front the Noble Lord—it is a com plete perversion. We intended this for the new Corpo ration, not the old ; we never meant to give the old Corpo ration that which they did not before possess ; if we breve done sa, we are perfectly ready to relinquish this provision. All I can say is, that I doubt whether it is done, and I posi. tively decy any intention of the kind. But there is this in the amendments ; we find that in English Corporations new secu rities are found for old debts, and we thought it desirable to apply the principle t; the new Corporations in Ireland. We were told it would be convenient to give the power of mort gaging, and we consented, and this the Noble Lord has con strued into an intention on the part of the House of Lords to afford the present Corporations facilities for disposing of their property. Ido not vindicate this. Ido not know what wish the Lords could have for the Corporations to enable them to dispose of their property between the periods. Ido not think that we, or any party pretending to credit, will be accused of permitting the Corporations to do that which we agreed they should not do.—( Hear. ) It is an imputation I do trot think worth while to reply to. —( Cheers.) I disclaim such intention altogether, and I greatly doubt whether, as usual, the Noble Lord has not been blinded, and whether the potter does not apply to the new Corporations. Lord J. RUSSELL intimated that some alteration was made in the Bill. Sir R. PEE L—lt was necessary to make .some alteration ; it was absolutely necessary to provide for cases in which Cor porations shall not exist, and when there were no Corporations it was absolutely necessary to make a provision corresponding. For instance, to show you that the amendment only applies to the new Act, it enacts that it shall be done by council iu the new boroughs that may apply for incorporation. Lord J RUSSELL made some observation which did not reach the gallery. Sir R. PE EL—Does the Noble Lord doubt whether I am stating the truth in what I say a.—(Cheer;, and cries of " Order" from the Ministerial Benches.) Now we come to the next point—that in which the Noble Lord charges U 3 with adding 180 clauses ; but so imperfectly has the Nob e Lord read the Bill that he begins by stating that we ei.e the town-clerks an interest in their office for life, He said, "Here is an instance of your respect for the old Corporations; you make the office of toevn-clerk, the hotbed of abuse in the old Corporation, permanent, and you deprive the new Corpora tions of power to appoint their town-clerks." We do not maintain any such thing.—( Hear, hear.) All we require is that the old officer shall receive compensation, giving at the same time power to the new Corporations to appoint their town-clerks. Therefore the Noble Lord was not justified in stating this. But this we have provided for—that whereas there may be certain cases in which Corporations shall be dis solved, that we provide that the duty shall continue to be performed by the present officer. Now, I ask, does this de serve the character given of it by the Noble Lord ?—(Dear, I c l o e ra,rsi a)builarTftoarienelyuuniciide(r•rtshtoeocdontl;tiaotutilloefpirici)epoLsaolrdtoLpiclaucteenth73t %vas acquiesced in. I thought that as it was felt that there iNathe no great distinction between night and day police, and al ai power of appointment was taken from the gentlemen an d gistrates, the best was; would be to vest the poker in tne Lord Lieutenant. The Noble Lord says that in this amen d . ment we are depriving the Town Councils of a municival foie_ tion. Why, what course has he himself taken with the city_ ct London ?_( H ear , h ear . ) What has he done in Dublin ? ( Hear, hear.) In both places he has transferred the when: (. 1 the appointment to the Crown. In London, the first of Col:- porations, and in Dublin, he had deprived the town councils of this privilege. I contend that a police force, whose d ut y it is to protect the lives and property of the inhabitants, should be under one controuling power not likely to be dis: turbed by municipal prejudices or feeling. Here, again, think the charges of the Noble Lord could hardly have been expected to come from that quarter.—( Hear, hear.) Then the Noble Lord referred to the boundary, and here again Is a charge against the crafty men for adopting his own prin ciple. With respect to the appointment of sheriff, I eon; fuss I think it would be infinitely better that the Lord Lieutenant should have the power of nominating one per" son than that three should be selected according to the old method, which the Lord Lieutenant could afterwards set aside. The Noble Lord complains that the machinery of the Bill has been rendered cumbrous, but he shoal" recollect that when all appointments and regulations ar e . made for the first time, it is absolutely necessary t hat the machinery should be cumbrous. The Noble .Lords if I understand him rightly, proposes to leave the Bi ll as it stands, with respect to the number of the towns t ° which Corporations shall be extended. Ido not object to that principle where the application to municipal bodies is made by, a majority of the 101. householders. Indeed I never obje cted to that principle, nor to the nomination by the majority l: 3 t of i 101. householders of Commissioners to govern and manage the public property of any town which may not choose to incur tie expense of a municipal machinery for that purpose. As to the proposition of the Noble Lord, to make the adoption of the 9th of George the Fourth compulsory upon certain towns , must confess that I am totally averse to it. It would, as I ar prehend, be much better to let those towns have a choice whether they should or should not adopt the 9th of Georg° the Fourth, and I am of that opinion, because the whole ma' chinery of that Act was planned with a view to the volunta r y principle. I understand that it is the intention of the l'Ob le i Lord to move an amendment with respect to the franchise. shall, therefore, take this opportunity of stating my perfe ct determination to oppose any such amendment. lam ready to make that the test, and to take the question upon it, defe r c i ring any further discussion until such time as the Noble ba r brings forward his proposition. I shall then defend the jag tice and the reasonableness of the suggestions which we re made from this side of the House, and upon which the amend ments made in the other House of Parliament were foundl —( Hear, hear.) I shall show that these amendments, an the Bill altogether, as it at present stands, are more in O s* logy with the system which it has been thought proper ere adopt in England than it was before the amendments w er made.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord, when he said th at the Bill was different from the English Bill, with respect to repairs and insurances, ought to have been aware that I c.% pressed myself m o st r ea dy t o r e mo v e an y o bj ec ti o n wit, le might be made up on th a t p o i n t. I ma y b e as k e d w hy to en did I not propose to do so on the previous occasion? but 1 0 1 answer is, that i n th e p resen t s t a t e o f thi ngs I hesitated t 0 make too hasty a proposition lest it might be as hastily r e : jected, and deem e d i t t h e more pru d ent course to c onte' myself with intimati ng the intention. The Hon. and Learn ed ' Member for Exeter aso stated at the same time that if valid distinction could be shown to exist between the Eng`Ta franchise and the Irish, those upon his side of the House vv oe be ready to remedy the defect. But the Noble Lord had on I I former occasion proposed a fran c hi se diff erent f rom t h a t w,,,,h i , c e he now professed himself ready to adopt.—( Cheers.) Noble Lord would be content to have the Parliamentary fr a :: chise such as that a t enan t flaying 81. re n t an d 41. for ta x and repairs should be considered as a 121. householder. Lord J. RUSSELL—Not the Parliamentary franchis e ,' Sir R. PEEL—The Nobl e L or d t h en did not ma k e hu ll ; self particularly clear upon the subject. The Parliament: lr ' franchise in England and I re l an d i s 10/ . so l vent paymen t, yr, sides all rates and other fai r c h arges . I p ropose to a d o pt t",, - Parliamentary franchise, and to add the rating condition a s I , check upon fraud. By the Bill of Mr. Poulett Scrope allowance was made whi c h was not in the Irish Bill bef ° '" ri adding to the net value the expense of repairs and insurance; as taken upon an average of years. We are willing to mak,e4 abatement equivalent t o this, a n d f or m y own p ar t I t w n ia we are bound in justice to do so. I do not admit, as appear to be insinuated by the Noble Lord, that this was "of luctantly forced upon me ; on the contrary, it was I 0 1 9 9 130 who threw out the suggestion.—( Hear, hear.) at, would 510 much better to estimate the repairs and insurance by an ,0 rage of years, as I suggest, than to adopt an arbitrary 11 1 i the amount. The Noble Lord starts a difficulty to tit's f saying that difference of tenures would stand in the we. such arrangements, as there might be some persons clailelo from a house singly and others from a bousc an land, and therefore it would be better to get rid of the niwg, culty by making the reduction the same in all cases. In Erl d i e land the allowance for land is about 2i per cent. ; but bp calculation with respect to houses is more difficult. 'he Lord says, the reduction ought to be equal, but I deny t""; I say it would be most unjust, and I shall stand by then; tics asserted here, and agreed to in th e amendments ina,uede the other House—( Hear, hear)—and I say that the r,°' Lord ought not to contend f o r an y more.— ( H ear , bear. shall not at present enter into d e t a il s; b ut i t i s not beea u l I would answer all that has been put forth by the Nohl e , d4l. f in the speech which he h a d just uttered, and the sp i r it f o r was to accu mu l a t e a ll th e o b nox i ous d eta il s , as "ibt.. the purpose of showing th a t th e H ouse o f L or d s we re in l i t enced in making the amend ment b y an un f a i r sp i r i t , and Wi s. the view of strippi ng th e Bill o f a ll i ts suppose d advantages, —( Cheers.) I believe that the House of Lords acted it' d , fair, candid, and honourable spirit in making those atn er' i c e ments.—( Cheers ) I believe that their object was to g .. „ full effect to the outline which I had previously sketeh eci d to (Cheers.) Wh e th er it i s t h e i ntent i on o f t h e N o bl e IJ °I. a r reject the ame n d ments, an d to k eep a li ve, f or sonic purposeub, other the discontent and soreness which prevail upon the: a t ject, Ido nut p re t en d to di v i ne. I on l y k now t h at I hav-,.'6c0 the expense of muc h m i srepresentat i on an d at no little sacr",aa of my private feeling, laboured to bring this question t° e a t * tisfactory adjustment, and I must own I should look uP e i t i ald failure of m y e ff orts w i t h very deep regret; but i f it ,11.1,-tive fail I do not h o ld e i t h er myse lf or these with whom mft( acted ro;eeetrreennilttinrfisl o.cee a wrnm r qß i : s tua w iselkn) . er e sti:njtei r tii r oLeo i l ie ble be d, I d f n acttotelitiriadoet piiitadfeelholernauelshtgi ori:troe c nsielu o steos n eldueil s ) asteudtuqodcoasu.eerecereoitni consider se e i s ra . s e _ . r Right --e the Lords' a•-'e.. of , in osed relativee words,d t by and n t hdbe birth, o t a t ir i riage, servitude, and arc enrolled according to the P r° sions hereinafter contained." av of Mr. SHAW h a d no o bj ect i on to i mpose the nccess7oo" proving the right before the proper officer, but he weal' consent to have the right of any one class given up. if $ Mr. S HEIL asked what would be the state of things & be roll were n o t ma d e up prev i ous l y to an e l ect i on ? I t coil' made up, as at present, by the Assistant Barrister. tcr l Mr. SHAW wou ld nu t o bj ect t o t h e A ss i stan t Barr's making the roll. it Mr. BALL would consent to take the entire wording g ,g , stood, though it was diff er e n t f rom t h e wor di ng o f the libel fish and Scotch Bill s , if a p rov i s i on were a dd e d conaP c ; be ir persons seeking t o b e pl ace d upon t h e ro ll to esta blish t f o r claim before a person appointed by the Lord Lieutenant that purpose. With this understanding, the clause wa3 agreed to. To a questn O'BRIEN, „eel Lord J. RUSSELL to the boundary clause, that he would propose to vest a P e u iP in the Lord Lieutenant to alter the boundaries, when a s uklit gr,mnd was ni :de out for so doing. Sir R. PEE L could not accede to such a propo,itio n ' hich Lord NIORPETH admitt e d th a t i t was a powerwiter' should be viewed with je a l ous y ; b ut t h ere was no o ther a Or native except to vest the power in the Lord Lieutenant' postpone the whole question with respect to boundaries . , After a few words from Mr. SHAW an d M r . S. o'l 3l ""' l r tit• Lord STANLEY said that Ministers had now an ° P Pc' dart nity, in the details of the schedules, of discussing the bout' or e, question. The power of altering the boundaries at Pl e *hei ought to bu taken out of the hands of the Government. t he?' ought to settle the question upon the information which acquired by means of their Commis si House, that it vi on. n,ooll'o, Mr. e LYNCH submi productive of advantage, and wou ld a ff or d muc h satialr°a if the Bill were postponed. Si rJ A MES GRA HAM could not concur with th e p ro' and Learned Gentl eman with respect to the necessity er e re t i e priety of postpo nement. Th e Commissioners, who °dad/ be supposed as b es t capa bl e o f j u d g i ng, had ma d e a In°9-, `vas cious examin a ti on o f t h e severa l l oca li t i es, an d t h e Hod s d t it in possession of the report which they had made , s et t b " boundaries which they had recommended. Ile thong was the time to discuss the question. co t ' Mr. SIIE IL supported the proposition for its postp° l l ll , s The Commissioners had recommended iii some ees e re o° 4 boundaries. The boundaries which they mentioned , a b e t in all cases the same as the Parliamentary bound arg on this was not a difference to be settled with pro cipitl. i pO 5l Gentlemen unacquainted a ith the locality or geogr a le l c tea' tion of those towns referred to, or which would be aL .e- o f tiof Mr. GOUL BURN thought that the observationsotitylcie Hen. and Learned Member, with respect to the q ua bet , 0 local and geographical know ledge, was very correcti,;ectio, should recollect that it was in order t o o bviate tha t " J the Government sent Commissioners to those town% a s 0 0 f pt had received the fullest instructions, and the House,: des in the possession of the r esu lt o f t h e i r inquiries. " e t °n° opinion that the bounda r i es w hi c h they had marked ° II to be Mr.a dhered to. O'CONNELL thought it odd to hear the Gove ro r e i/ o efil t, lP Commissioners so muc h pra i se d b y t h e H on . Gentl e on e eap the Opposition side of the House. It augured a for e g e ed t o o elusion. The Co mm i ss i oners i n som e towns cha b e O w , boundaries materially. In Cork, for instance, hY __ o ld o f boundary, ma n y p ersons pay i ng a ll th e c ity rates nrges,,, left out, a n d t h us, w hil st t h ey were liable to all the charges,, aP, the Corporation, they were to enjoy none of the f h th e e lle p p r oc,e o e ;t ing from it. This was not a very fair result o _ o p .4 , ings of the Commissioners. He trusted the House "1 0 ti eeu_, o come to a decision so speedily, for he strongly sity for postponement. He was sorry to see that 00 to of Lords, instead of amending the Bill, had add to P feltht the 1-1001wer Bill to it. He regretted that they had thought proP` e sue so inconvenient a course. Lord J. RUSSELL did not wish to be understocd 119 1 11