The Sun. — London, England, 1826-05-05 00:00:00

'IMPERI'AL PARLIAMENT. 'MOUSE OF COMMONS...-TBUIISDAY, MAY 4. Sir J. YORKE, presented a petition from an individuld'immed Georg* Lennie, who belonged to several Friendly Societies. The petitioner humbly suggested to the House that much light,would be' throwo on the subject of Ftiendly Societies by appointing Coin mission (the Hon..Mintiber called it a roving Commission) to ex amine into these Societies during the recess, so that the• House might not legislate upou a subject they knew very little of::—Or tlesed to he printed. SLAVERY: : Mr. H, DAVIS presented a petition from several mortgagees ofitest India propel ty against the sudden Emancip.ition of ;the Simi, and Selling upon the. House not to adopt any I , ...eity mea sure with reference to their remapcipatiop, which would , de piive %hail (the mortgagees) of their propeity.---Ordered pritate& SHIPPING AND NAVIGATION LAWS. Mr. IIIt iA LTNIONT preiented a , petition fro m several Shi p . Muses of Vieth Shields, against tbe. Narigatieu Laws, and eztrlSlirallg qr. btt .4Efrestott state of the 'shipping in, gem:rel.- 7 fle had hem; &twit at la ~t th a'nfl had wittlised the tligtaiiiiicotapinitleil of in the Petition, and therefot4 ht would supp.irt the Petition Ile wished to mac the Iligy• Pon. Presi dent of the jlaaa if any thingwe4i uontiniptition for the relief of the vast body of Petitioners whom he thought claimed the atinretteition of the, House. , Airy 11.4 15 SKISSON defermi any dismission wt this subject of importance, till the !notion on the same subject which he lied given notice .14r to-uiattow was' before the Horse. Ai, however, ttere wrilihf bus frif,joet of store importanee for the comitleration tht: 11 ii a to-usirrove 414„ WWl(' I,oatrili! hie motion (414tive to the shipping) till Mini,lav next. Coll'ig LAWS. Wy'st-t pesroootal the resumption of the Adjourned rielptte nn this Coro Laws till te,roorio*'. , ATTAINDERWREVE4ISED. The Limn A,nvocarx brought no the Reports of the Olin ruittee Nolte Bills fee Reversing the .Attaindera of Earls Airlie and Cirnwath, llamas Etch() and Duthie, and Sir Patrick Mur ree 'lhrieoland, of Fiugnl. ',pie Reports were received, and the thit4 tinWitrurpasseid." • ' ' ' ' "VIIATIENCIr. • Mtillt..+Gottiniit preseeted!c Petition farm several parishes in Fcrttland against any v. /ration of the Currency of that part of the Kfltgioltr—Referred to the Committee. Lad -VpI..k.:STONE presented a Petition from the Burgesses al:61'114: the town of Paisley, in favour of an alteration in the Nitittey Seotland. He wished to knoW whether his Ma jestrit 141161104 s intended -to do any thing towards an altera tif.n 114_,Infpeti they would pause, for he had no doubt there be more petitions of the same tenor as the one hi had in his hand. ' Mr. lIIISKIRAON deprecated any discussion 'relative to the alteration of Currency before the Report of the Committee ap pointed td 'examine into 'the Banking Systems of Ireland and Keotiand was before the llotiete, - ' • Lord FOLKSTCINE said he had put the question to the Right Hon: (leak:nen, because he saw that Iginisters bad come .for ward with a mrsasure for the relief 'of the people of England at a very short notice. The petitioners, however, did not attribute the cider:thy; which called for rut alteration of the currency, to the Corn d.rtivs. Mt. J: - p. GRANT 'said, that the Petition deserved particular attention, becOuse the manufacturers of Paisley, though partiti peting in the genera distress of that part of the country, had never been lietrayeit into a cringe act of public disturbaoce. He dia. senteg froin'that port or the Petition which attributO the present' distress,tO.the : state of the eurrency in Scotland. Sir 11. WILSON flenieti that those Who had voted in 'he ma- . jority of the other night, voted against an inquiry into the cause' .of the diattstat its the manufarturing districts. ;, GenerdliGAgCOYNE said, that petitions hail. not been pre- emoted frofti'LUttertabire, bee:toie the manufacturers believed that' they 'would 'hi of no utik")' They saw, the determination of the landed interest to oppose any ititeration of the Corn Laws, and knew' 'that Ministde hail 'determined not to interfere with the uuostiatt florin„ the present Session. He trusted, 'however, that Ile Homer_ -could not, sep.. r: ire without having taken up the question. liu 11,4 the , pnye.rument `had not postponed the .tinuesure they. introilliisitit theo,tnilter night, with any view of abandon in~r it. IY, wave convinced they were tort candid to tAdre :inch a unwell., that the measure would he pen...tiered. in.— (Hear, hero r)-Llf the :Maui/ had only appointed a Connnittee to inquire into the gener;d. question, and they had reported progress altar sitting t ntoight; Ind beloved the disturbances in LACS- Slat svinOil never nave: Own place. After a few werris'frain : Col. 'JOHNSON ant Mr. BUICUT, the patition ti.•;,S 'ordered fs .. be pript.4, : -• CORY: .YS., Sit T. LETHBRIDGE row; to petition which lad iiat iota hisPessession by an ,individual of whom he knew Jutti.Mg, who dcscribm himself' as -Henry Phillip, corn dealer, 'in the City, of London. The petitioner preyed : the House not to pass the measure recently introduced by the Government, with out granting him redress for louses which he should suffer there by. He stated that he had held four thousand quarters of foreign wheat in bond from the lath of. May, 1822, which he had taken out last year under the measure thin passerkby liniment of a fluty a ten shillings per quarter. He had hitters 'been keep ing his corn in the hop of getting Inc it a higher price, and ass t.lte importation of freih fir. 'ii wheat was t 0.,; at 125., ti. in prayOd :compensation for I t sutler pittneo-.(l,aughter, And ,expressious Of disapprobation.)—The kfon. Baronet said he could not deny that it WAS 4 most extra ioellirtaiy Petition, but it *hewed the situation in which all corn dealers would be' plueed , hY the memoirist of Government. The Petition hail been put into his hands—he had no• knowledge of , ithe party front whom it carne.—and in presenting it to the House ..he bad done his duty. There was one fact he wished to mention as . isiocif orate great seusibility of these corn dealers, and the titucktates with which they sow Any thing which wae likely to af 'tact their interests. He was informed, as a fact, that at Liver pool, on Baturilay last, great activity had, taken place in the busi nese of cm., - Whether they had for.eseen the measure which the Gorernment proposed onlibmday, he could not undertake to say. glut he believed the feat lurharl stated could lie very well atithen. ,tieated. He only mentioned thelact ; but the sensibility of the • corn deAlers,••• And'the acittetness With'whielothby,perceived the in -ttorions of (Prot-moult, were certainly greater that any displayed by the corn growers. Before y he moveil, ,that the Petition be • printed, he.would eat nestlyeepreas his hope that as his 111;:jesty's. hfialaters bail put off 11 is 40404 until to-morrow night, they would yield - to the wish whieb he thought ;was enter-, tamed in comition by the great body' of the House, end let it rest altngetlier.---(Cries of " No, no. ')—He hoped they vrould do an; and he would state why. They had carried. their point in the first measure, bywhich the eorn now rin.hond .wooled be let free, anti he thought it Wouldha more in quantity than theri , sti- Mated, .anil come'into general cettionAption. The effect 'of this bad Hein already to cause a great stagnation of rices in the mar ket for corn. , one he believed could, • umber these cirentn ittancest expect any very high prices, and certainly not famine, prick*, hefore 04'n:wing of Parliament if, as was understood, a 'rlissulutton'svas to take place soon. Why then svaii thie respoitsi hility to be taken by the Governmeatt,respotteibility asked for;, but not wanted-- r -for all the .Right, )Ion. : Cretitlenten who hail notonoken on the falloi4! said, ,they woold . ,rother lie withont is :.He Aid nut wish that _they should have it, lle klitnigl4 .it would I:olr•cgttttlt*: power in; the - Ilan& of his. Majesty's Ministers, by ilirt4ll they oeuld fix the' price of every man's acre of land through einititry....4w, at all events, of his quarter of corn. lie did Orrtielleve that they would BO use 1!, but lie would rather see the pbtet remain in the hands nf Parliament. Init',HYST.SON said that as there would be an opportunity of SlissanOtig ; t hers before, the Minus to-morrow,-,(Cheers) ehonkil,not say oite word alamt. Ile ..rose solely to repel, 10.1. - ttillttOitioni an luttinuation which he understood to have been agawit him by the, Hon. Baronet. • He did nut hear what had fallen from the lion. Ilaronet, for hi was not, in the House ; , and wadi inacetwate , ip meting what it was, lw wished to be tt eiceetti4. He understood it to have keen insinuated that certain Livertiool, and, he believed, in London, had 'reeeiveti intimation from hini of the intentions of Government. 1.4.111 nitiont dissented. • . 4 tif];',EISSON would 'nit itito the 'Ho use whether, eon !„,u g„lus nopnection; with biverpOol and with the Government * i~srir~N4iiriat $s Intuit not apply 'to - himself. He Would say, upon bottottr,, that it was impossible for any individual in Pindon or Alt #l4 Java had the slightest intimation of such a ustori the subject had been thus opened, .he Weida At oorliattlid occur in reference to it. The only letter which he h ke e alv e 'd • f / ttriy Livetpool' he received tea 'days ago 'front to y ,hruirtent Curn ,dealers of .that tat . contemning " 4 . . 0 "; the m ild : inlgliciti f ;aitoithd .to - . the distressiSl mann ere in Live'stooVy enabling the (len in bond to he sold , for tbeit PrignsiMptient ~ Peeling the deli bt , ally. txittintu,ikattnri with' them upon such a topic:, con ' .1.04Yi could 'timatie'tllo4lo.,*onet, to his usualliabita of pridnet .futtfitids'hig 'edhstitnents; ho left httittf..:idtoketter unnoticed- 41 06 1 0, heio!) - -;„itint he hoped ser i t t i desunk wo od Nor see trite reason why lie had so acted:, Therefore, whatever had been the activity in the trade in corn, he challenged the Hon. Baronet or the world to shew any thing in hit conduct by which the intention of the Government could have leen known to the parties engaged in it.--(Cheers.) - Mr. H. STIMNE# rose to add his testitriorirta.the entire din. belief with which any such insinitation.atidyitwhkcji 'Hon. Gentleman had supposed to exis,' ypgl4l)e received by every Member of the Ifouse. But tllecrearionf nib a rumour was perhaps a necessary inconvinien44'nriSingfrom such a jAace as Llterpool being represented by titk 7 Presliikrit of , the Board of Trade.—The Petition WM /Miffed AnXte on,ike Sir T. LETHBRIDGE, in moving that it be printed, .dis claimed a n y intention of making the insiumstionovitich tins Right lion. Gentleman supposed. • Mr. HUSKISSON Said, that eller the ititiniation given him by the Hon. Baronet, he must of course believiv.that the inten tion had been Mistaken. Ile should not,have risen : if. the obser vations of the Hon. Baronet had not left an impression on the . minds of some of his ftiends Which his honour requir'ed'that he, should at once repel. As to his being the representative 'of the' town of Liverpool, he begged to * say that he Was at least as in dependent of his constituents as the Member for Surrey. Sir F. BURDETT said, that in justice to the Hon. Baronet, he rose to say that what hail fallen from him created in his mind no idea of anch a charge against"the Right Hon. Gentleman. Mr. BROUGHAM said it was quite imposSibla that the nial given by the Right lion. Gentleman muse not be satisfactory to' all who heard it. But there was a pretty sufficient reason why the Right Hon. Gentleman was out in a situation to have con veyed any intimation of this measure to his constituents by Satiw day last, and that leas, that he did not know it himself.—(A laugh.)—lndeed is was made 'a matter of charge and reproach to the Government in the debate of the other night, that they had of a sudden, and without tieliberation, brought forward a'. measnre of which they themselves had no idea 48 hours before. The object of his rising WWI to explain,the vote which he pre in the tnajn ' city of th 6 other evening. He understood that his Hon. Friend, the Member for Bristol, had said that all who voted fur that Re solution, voted against any inquiry into the causes of the existing distress. It was•no such thing. how could they avoi voting cgaiestan amendinflit, the object of which was to get rid of a measure which thy thon. 4 lit - good and necessary. How incon sistent should they have been in 'opposing such a measure, when they had supported that of the Hon. Member for Briagnorth on the 18th of April. Mr. BENgTT said, that the explanation of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was a•good explanal:in of his Vote, but he did not see how the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite could explain away theinconsistency 'of theirs who had voted against the motion of the Hon. Member for Bridgnorth. He should like to . hear by what ingenuity. they could make out an explanation also. Mr. Secretary PEEL said that the Hon. Member for Wiltshire seemed to pride himself upon hiving made a most extraordinary discovery.• The proposition of the Hon. Member for Bridgnorth went to a permanent nrrangemencof the law by which corn was to be admitted ir.to this country; whereas this measures was of a temporary nature, and wholly 'unconnected with that question. He thought that in one sentence he had satisfactorily got rid of the Wonderful - difficulty in Which the Hon. 'Member had plieed him rind his Right lion. Friends. - • • Sir Said, he did not believe that Ministers in tended to bring forward the general question this Session. But ho would state it as his opinion that if these measures pasted, the whole of the Corn Law question was decided.—(Bear; The whole question would be put at rest, and foreign wheat would he imported into this - country at a permanent duty of twelve' shillings. He agreed very much in the view which the Right lion. • Gentleman himself took of the Corn Laws. lie thought the 'present Corn Laws were injurious to the country, and:that the ports should always he .open at a permanent duty; what the amount of that duty' should be, was the question - the House had to ascertain. Mr. WHITMORE contended that the Petitioner had no grievance to complain of, and that the proposed measures were highly Pxpeilient: lie therefore hoped that the house would concur in thorn.. The Petition havitt been read, Mr. DAIIINC.) rimptested tu.know whether it was intended to bring np the Report of the. Committee on the measure which had been consented to. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he saw no objection th bring 'tip the RePort. ' • Mr. BARING objected to such a proceeding, inasmuch us the real proposition to be considered was their going into the general question of the Corn Laws. Till that question was discussed, the country was left in a state of the greatest confusion, for no one knew the value of his property.; • no farmer could tell how much he ought to give for laud. _ After a few words from Mr, Layeasna, L tintVetAtion 6rati to-- tiered to be printed. SALE OF GAME. Sir 11. 1h toy gave not ive, that on Toittlay .next he would rnove for leave to bring in a Bill to r,nder the sale of game legal. CHIEF lUSTICESIIII , 0F SIEIRRA-LEOS:4 BoanrrT presented n Petition • from • Robert? . Thorpe, Poctor.of Laws, late Chief Justice of Sierra Leone, who,had heal deprived of his situation by the Colonial Department, praying that his 'Case might be take& into'conaideration. • • • Mr. Hum Supported the prayer of the petition. Mr. W. NORTON said, that if the Colonial. Department soul not show that they. had exercised a proper discretion, he would admit that the present case was a grievance. But the explana tion Which would be offered, he conceived would fully meet the statement which had been mode by the-Hen. Mover. The Petition was ordered to be printad.. • Lord, tnoyed for a continuation of Bettina from Trinidad, under the Orders in Council contained in Paper B. presented by order of his Majeay in 1825; and also for Copies of all Laws and Regulations which prescribe the time to be al lowed to :laves in Trinidad for the cultivation of their Provi sion Grounds. Returns of Wages fixed .by, the Protectors of Slaves for Sunday Liibonr, together with the rate of Exchange between Trinidad and England at the time such wages were paid. The same for Demerara; • and Copies of all Lairs passed by the Legislature of Grenada, regulating the markets of that island, and appointing a time for their being held. STATE OF THE NATION. Mr. HUME rose to bring for Ward his motion on this' subject, pursuant to a notice whieb bad been given two • months since. He began by disclaiming any intention of interfering . with the measures of Ministers.. , Their acts, with the exception of those Which regaided the expenditure of the countfy, were in general such us slforded bin greet pleasure; and aecordinglyhe often Voted with them. lie wished however to. remove a delusion .with regard to the financial : state of the country, which had pruned 'ruinous to many classes of the people .Every part of his statement 'would be sufficiently clear, except the details con. nected withthe Sinking Fund, -which were, so important, that be would reserve them for sepu . ate consideretion. For the ,tititio. alterations .whicb "had taken place-in the country'varions opinions had , en offered. Some attributed •theni' to the. *tate of the. Currency,: other* to the Corn Laws, and others assigned other causes: -• would not say that they were all wrong ; perhaps some truth might be found'in' the reasoning .of each ; but it was necessary to know.the real situation of things, before • any. one . tould undertake.. to . propose a remedy. On this queStion he took a different vlvw from • Ministers, and in coffin dering he.wonld confine himself 40 the period which inter vened since January,l6l7; bedfast? Wore that time the financial accounts • Of, %Engluall-and 'lreland Were kept separate, and conse quently were more confinied and obteure than they subsequently • became. 'The 'Chancellor of the Exchequer had slated, that there was a reduction of, three millions in .the amount of the Oldie debt ; but , that atetement• he .thought •was erroneous.— in 1810, n mistake , of two millions had ocean-et!, which. was not ,pereeived ••until he (Mr. Hume) discovered it' in examining. the financial accounts, • end credit was taken for a reduction -to that amount up -to the time of examination. As to the Debt, the public were , under an impression that a reac tion greater than was really possible- had taken place.. Oirthe sth of,Jannury, :1617, the funded debt amounted to 796,000;0001. and the unfunded to '50;000,006/., the whole being 846,000,000?. On the sth, of-Jan,'lB26, the funded debt-Wei/78,00%00a and the unfunded 41,600,0001. •tnakipg in all 819,000,4061.. Hence it ." appeared that -thel'e was a decrease in capital of 27.000/. Since the year 1617 there was a reduction in capital to the amount of 20,1300/. . Out . of 2,986,000/. the ;rishiction on the annual charge of the funded and unfunded debt, - 'a retkiction of 2,242,0001. took place, without any reference. to surplus revenue. The . total revenue for , the - Stine years was M 1,26605864 and, the amount of expenditure was 608,308,614/. which showed the . surplus of revenue to be 22,636,922 i. ; and this,. with- the monies paid by 'Austria Rini the , 'lndia Company, • enme up 25,965,539/. which - might; be - diaposed'•of for the redemption , : of the debt exclusively of' 'slime-. paid' , by the :Bank of !Eng land for w h a t wa s caliaithe - dead --weight hum. The , total Amount -of taxes:, rtceive4 41011*,:Tre!trry for , the nine years teas 631,000,904„ aid ,211,,, 0,0001. bad been paid during the 114' 'Athena ,' - of •the civil and military ex-' ponces ' of - the nation. " The' Hance of monies • in rthe-Pie , 6044 her ; 18/*414%s 1i.313,040/., and in• the same month of-this year 'it was W Welt glowed a ileereasec of Vi. 07 .4 02 L; ) , ni. 0 00,001, was to throw dust in : the .eyes of, i tte e tli t ei io ‘ u V g h h o (hit there'ivas a sinking fund':to that did not exceed twoluillionsiMilit half jar any one year.' Any man would naturally have supposed that the nation was: growing and that the debt, ,was,lessenettlay 124,006,b00t glut such was not the fact: . •Duting that time 98,000,000/. were borrowed,. and ?tilv tifeht was increased by .128,009,009/. It appeared, 464 1ti1it1,16,0001,00,0/. out of th e 124,009,060/. - Went to th e Oirnuilti;iinnettii i iiir 4 fhl Sinking 'Fund.' In the year 1819 the Chancellor fiehifiuer.borrowed. millions, to prop up the Fes* Walking system ;. the Gentle'- men who were disposed to bid IT. this loan' of course sold out so as to depreciate stock; but iClialAiiglieeu suggested 4 the Hon. Member for Penrhyn that it would be better to take up only twelve millions, the bidders, 'as soon as they heard this, rose in their offers to 39/., or full 8 per cent., 'w:-ich was a most important 'saving toy the Public on that transaction only ; but he bad no hesitation in saying, that by borrowing in this way in order to mystify the prtweedings of Gwernment and prop up the Sinkins , Fund, notTless than between txo and three hundred ma lions of nominal' 'capital had been ad led, together with its very heavy charge, to the amount 'Of our N itional Debt. -Much good would ~:.)e. s lotte if the principle of simp!ifying the public accounts were carries?, into effect to the extent recommended by the Hon. Member for Abingdon. 'The Honourable Member went into a minute exa►nination of that Funded - Stock commonly called the D ea d W e ight, which alone had proved the means of wantonly throwing out of the pocket of the public no less than 1,600,000/. Might not this be as well applied to some beneficial national pur poses, if not to the immediate reduction of 'tans? The Govern ment had been going on from time to time, reducing one stock by creating another. He contended that an end ought to be put to the re-Purchase of three per Cents, under any circumstances, after they bad rl,ien beyond a certain amount-so that Govern ment should never be allowed to play any hocupocua tricks, with this part of our finance.—(Laughing.)--He trusted he had now shewn the futility of a Sinking Fund. Whilst our difficul ties in the monied way were increasing, our produce, whether in commerce, agriculture, or manufactures, together with the remuneration for labour in each branch, had more than propor tionably declined: He regretted to say that a circumstance had been disclosed, by the ingenious tables of M. Moreau, accord ing to which it would be found, that by referring the exports and imports to two standards of value, the' actual and the offi cial, at the Custom House, we were constantly labouring under a delusiOn as to the value of our 'exports and imports. He hehl that all 'classes of society,, including► the country gentleman, the half-pay, 'the placemun, and all persons of this sort who did not labour, were totally useless. or non-productive as to the fifty eight.millions of taxes requisitefor the vearlr expenditure. It was,only the arm that wielded the•hamn►er, directed the plough, or managed the loom or sail, which could be considered really productive in this sense. The next resolution he had to allude to was that Which contained the cream of all he had to submit. It went to state strongly the necessity of an immediate reduction of our establishments 'generally, and aa a necessary consequence a general reduction of direct taxation.—(Hear, hear!) --Nothing could be more fallacious than for the Right Hom Gentleman to tell the public that 27 millions of taxes had been taken off, when it must be seen that by altering the standard, and attempting to restore us to a state of metallic currency, there wits nearly the same sum paid now into the Treasury that' there had been tot the average of former years, antecedent to the arrangements in our finance, which took place upon the.ceasation of hostilities in 1815. This consideration ought not to have escaped the acumen of the Right lbw. Gentleman, when he told the House a short time ago, that the country was in a progressively improving state ; when he could demonstrate from public accounts that the con sumption of articles of necessity and luxury was progressively in creasing on 'do ;average of some two or three years. He could not join in the exultation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer On' being able to collect tifty-two.millions of money, w1W!: he saw the • state of destitution and distress into which the agricultural la bourers of the country had permaneiitly sunk. This was the effect of the grinding hand of taxation, and yet year after year the House was amused with the most flattering, and, he would . add, the most delusive statements. '.They had heard the Right Honourable Gentleman boast of ~ the increase in the consump tion of exinsenble articles 'as an indier:ion• of the ability and com fort of the people. • These statements were, without exception, either altogether opposite to the fact, or grossly exaggerated. The Honourable Member then Wait into a long and detailed comparison between the rate of consumption at present, and at dates more or less remote, of the several articles of malt, distilled spirits, wine, tobacco, wool, tea, sugar; soap, candles, and other articles ; and contended that the consumption hail either positively. fallen off, or hail not increased in any thingilike an , equal !minor- . tion with thelincrease of population. He excepted the case of tal low candles, the increase in the comannptien of which he ascribed to the misery and.distresi of the people, who could now with dif ficult obtain the neeessarim,oflife, even by 'working at late and unreasonable hours. lie would refer to the state . of pauperism and' crime, which had gone o n in c re a sing with theit4rease of taxation, as affording proof positive of the correctness of his opinions. ' .hlut before he adverted to that part of ,his subject, he , mast take leave to say a few Words on the extravagance of Government. lie then com pared in great detail. the Army, Ordnance, 'and Navy Estimates, for seVeral 'years hack, and ,pointed out a progressive 'in crease tinder' each head. - He animadverted with . great Warmth upon the management .'hf'the half-nay of the army, •which he described .fiti- -a .'eystenv7for the •eontinuation of pensions, and for affrilin-9virtinent the mems of bribing every family in the '' touittrY - " The same observations applied still more strongly. to the 'half ,pay of the Navy. They had naval .officert balmilicjetatimsinnbers to - command seven such navies .: as yits l maiumitS4,; Put (of above five . thousand naval officers,. they had ,in teat i year* a diminution of only thirty, and this was aniong4, (h. Lientenants. The number of superior officers had, lio* fo,iereised; so that they made lilt in weight ro l* what they wanted ii number. Then let them look at the promo tions in the last ten years—they-had in the Navy no less than 1,594 nromiiiiiins. . That 'this WO exolusiVely for the purpose Of patronage, mas ev . ident from the, very Opposite Course pursued by Government Ktb,respect to another branch, and 'an equally me ritorious li.,,ancli or the service—he meant th e corps-Of Marines. In this corps, consisting of eight or nine 'thousand men, they had in ten years only. 96 promotions. This partiality would appear unaccountable,. tilt it was recollected that amongst the officers of Marina there were no sons of Noblemen or :Members of Parlia ment. These circumstances altogether warranted him in the con clusion that the whole extravagance of our establishments arose front the desire of creating patronage of Ministers. Having thus clearly traced our extravagant expenditure to its cause, the more painful duty .still remained to follow it. to its consequences, the general poverty and distress of the people, and the fear ful increase of pauperism and crime. Hopes had been en. , tertained, that the improved education of. the , people would have lessened the amount •of crime, and it unquestionably had that tendency. :' How . effectually it - had beep counteracted by the extravagance and the consequent . poverty of the people, wou ld b e apparent from the statements:he was about to submit. In the year 1815 the whole number of persons committed in England and Wales was 4,600.... In the year 1825, the number was 14,44,.shewing an increase in the proportion of almost four to one.. ..Crime, it had been said, was the child of poverty, and no doubt the observation was correct. Rut it might be said with equal truth, that povarty 'was .the' child of exaction. • Thi s monstroui increase of crime 'then must he laid to the - charge' of -that House as its author. . He considered taxation to.be•the main source of all our calamities. He called upon the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite „to abate their extravagance if they ins tended to keep faith with, the public creditor. ' After :eleven years .of peace.our war establishment was kin kept ' ' up: . . If rive' should again have.to enter into tr war, •we - should- commence . it. in a- state of exhaustion. from the pressure of our present esta blishment. He 'acquitted- himself of being any party to the extravagance which had been indulged, and•trusted that thes7- lusive statements of the Chancellor of the .EXehequer would vlM longer have sufficient influence With the House. to induce it to tolerate - such prodigality. - .lle'gavelway.lo no gloomy views—lie was aware of the capability and energy of tim country—but he called upon the House, in..the natne of policy and humanity, to • . • .. repress an ext ravagance which threatened eventual ruin to the nation, and which had already sunk all the lower orders of the people into a state of.the lowest degradation, and. the most de- ..- plorahle wretchedness. lie should conclude by moving " That ary humble Address be• presented to his Majesty, praying him to take into consideration the present .calainitons situation of the country, ,and that he.would be graciously pleased to direct an in quiry into the causes which had produced such wide Spreading distress, and to ascertain the best means of relieving the country from its embarrassments." The '-CIIANCELLOTI of the EXOITEQUER said, that when lie had stated to the House that,it dwriasdiinitiitnettillprolploloit'cioloncsk, and tliis m hi o a r i n u in n g d ; tli t a b t at the th ß ey es c o on lut s i i o stad ne o e f of the-tion. Memb er were put i nto were comprised 1 11 27 c l o s e ly pouted. pages ; and-, that they em braeOd itll possible subjects, the Funded and 'Unfunded Debt, the Sinking fund, the different heads of national expence ; short, that they embraced all the imaginable tepics'which Were "passible . to be introduc e d, or had any relation to the diveriified and caniPlieitrid aiTairi , of this country, it nolltw,exprieted of Adm to bary l icti e d, o t such_ noticei foiliftv th e. Elm, ..Cientlernan 1 . 11 .q 4 1 4 0 rnasen . ol4ll l '.,ef:4 l Y! wandered . It wag/ 1 ?. " .. t h„ 9 , 14 .,g,,,;,147.timciiie physical., _andiVenlidAttbergy of man to acemii nuin'thill'itirtheffoniie hint' if he did not' ttkeiipo °''` I would not tuadrtaltii , iiii ( reply to the inset multi 4; L Plit,Nllloll44l,opios (.linglitnutti'_ bad 1,-, d, ~,, .•„, .. tere aria the 'House would pardon him for this determination, for if he were to enter!upon so wide a leld of discussion, it would beiimposeTt Ajtvenny explanation of a satiefactory or even of anintelligi le turE • He declared that when ' he had read this fointidalde it -r af reialutions, he had no conception that 'they' 4 ,wtilt" terminate in a motion for itt Address to the Crow* 'of whiCh • the whole scope and tendetiO'nAithed' to be a reduition , al taxation. When, ,hoWever, - tlieS€ Ai * .ltithing -' were put to h;s hand, fearful ' (es Were thee ~ .. aliens, and horrible Atif'; was their aspect, lie thought f t *kits look into theft liti , order to see how 'far h e Could aid' firs 'l - Y whether he should 4* , , , - ~. compelled alei rlier to deny their npetiracy. In his first reh , solution, the ` AT Member bail Charged him with misleadft the tionse,lickairectly it was true; but what signified that,- if an imputation wee cast upou a man, the anode of castingit was of little importance. He was plainly charged either with gross ignorance of that which it was leis duty to know, • or with :wilful and deliberate fraud. Now this charge he must beg leave to 'contradict, and he must further say that the very Things with which lie was charged were to be Luna in the resolution itself. He must in the first instance disclaim any 'responsibility for thipublished report of his speech to which the; Heim-Gentle man had resorted to as an authenticated ststeli• He was not answerable fur one word of that account. He ha nothing what ever to do with the publication of it. It had note either directly or indirectly, proceeded from, or been sanctionecUbYhim. Yet upon the strength of this Report the Honouriible Member had contrived to charge him with wilful and deliberate fraud.— He repelled the aspersion, and he repeated that the Resolution itself contained a statement 'which was -Jot true. He would read the ResolutimL: It was iu these Werds;--" That the assertions made to this House by the Chancellor of the Ex-. chequer, on the 3d March, 1 823, that a teductinn of 24,766,5201. on the capital of the Public Debt, had been affected by the opera tion of the Sinking Fund,:from the termination of the war up to the sth of January, 1823 ; and again on the 18th of March, 1826, that a further reduction of 'the Public Debt of 18,401,0001. had been effected between sth. January, 1823, and sth Jan. 1826, making together a reduction of 43,167,5201. in the capital of the Public Debt since the termination of the war are not consistent with the, accounts before the Ilouse, as appears by the facts con tained in the following resolution." For the accuracy of these documents, laid before the House from a department at which he ' was at the head, he of course was answerable ; therefore the charge againit him in the terms of the resolution was sufficiently direct and distihct. His answer to the charge was, • that he had never used the language imputed to him by the resolution. That the amount of debt was reduced to this extent lie had stated,. and he had stated it ' truly. But he had never said it was so reduced by, the operation of the Sinking Fund. So far from this lie had, fr on an apprehension, that some mistake might arise, taken special cure to state that it was not, and in proof of this he would refer to the reports. It was his duty to propose a resolution to the House to simplify the Sinking Fund, and he had proeeeded to ex plain what the state of the funded delft was. The Sinking Fund' had not been mentioned by I inn as having operated the reduction of debt, of which lie spoke. And, indeed, it was impossible that he could have meant that debt to the amount of 24,766,5201. lied been redeemed by the Sinking,Fund. He compared the then existing amount of 'debt, with its amount ut the period when it was at its maximum, and he stat e d th a t i n p oint of fact an actual diminution of debt had taken place, which, although not con siderable; was yet enough to shew that some progreist hail been made, and that to a certain extept a surplus of revenue existed. Between the sth of January, 1815, and the sth of January, 1823: a diminution of funded debt to the extent of nearly twenty mil lions, and of unfunded debt to the extent of considerably above four millions, had been effected. The amount reduced was in point of fact accurately stated by him to a single farthing, but' that he ascribed it' to this ,operation of the Sinking Fund was untrue, and even imptisible. He had taken particu lar Pains to prevent any misapprehension alien this subject. And now the Honourable Member thought, fit to charge him With having propagated delusitiii. He would say that the Hon. Member had no right to embody a censure of this nature in kre solation, drawing . his materiels only from an unauthorised re port of his speech. The wholf• proceeding of the Hon. Member was Most extraordinary. He embodied the condemnationin his first 'resolution, and then re*rii for the grounds of it to the ; facts alleged in a following resolution. Suppose the House to adopt the first resolution, it would be a resolution without any Parliamentary ground, ' till after they had adopted the i folloWing one, which they might after all perhaps reject-- No Man was ever, surely, condemned in so clumsy a manner ; and yet, so enamoured was the lion. Gentleman of this logical mode of proceeding, that if Hon. Members ,yould have the goodness to refer to No. :31, thi../ would again find him re• sorting to it. That resolution stated, that the repeated ass e r.: tions made in this Ilouse that there bad been a diminution of taxation since the termination of the war, was deliisive and fat ketone, as would appear iby the facts hutted in the ?following . resolutions. So, by this very accurate and , loEieul mode of argument, he was to lie condemned for fallacious reailoning.— i t dl a e k all e a n i r e igii r i do t dt n yi trace n inuitllicieli which a choen wte through pilinyti a o ll ain 4 o * .t. It WAS impoissible to follow the • Honourable Gentle Man in the di t H va s is c il t i l i ri 'r i g s e i i l e an b f i l l e ig e r t a h u i t ri t s i l e ii h i c g e o e n i o l f ai u f se l t much a task. He was ready to exelaire-- Chaos is come ' 4 " ....-Let them then leek back , to thre sesoudtgitukuipn. , 144 *tato inept of the ; reduction of debt. had been Inuit with referepee to that period, svhen the debt was at its highest *mount, viz. the year 1816. In the Resolution, No. 2, the lion. Member very dexterously and ingeniously exclude& that year, and makes' his comparison from the 'year 1817. His talcelations did not therefore apply to the .eiane period as those they were intended to contradict. His statements, o from the p er i o d t o w hi c h they applied, were liter a lly t rue . This error vitiated the whole of the resolutions of the Hon. Member. The Hon. Member, after speaking for two hours on the Sinking Fund and the: Public . Debt, had very , coolly said he would not enter fully into the subject now. It was impossible to follow the Honourable Mem ber. On some future occasion he might perhaps be: enabled to give better explanations. When he should be favoured 'with such a notice as to make him aware, to enable hint at least to give a guess at the intentions of the Honourable Member, he might, perhaps, , justify his conduct more fidly. H e was not however, aware that it was any part of hieduty to justify the' conduct of any Chancellor of the Exchequer for the last forty years. The Hon. Member had attacked Mr. Pitt and all succeeding Chancel lors, and. had represented the Sinking Fund as if its only object had ; been to mystify the financial affairs of the country. All the 'lion. Member hail said about borrowing with one band and pay- , ing with the other, was quite inapplicable to him. He had aim plified the Sinking Ftnid, and caused its nominal and real amount to correspond. :4nce the time of Mr. Pitt a great change of cir cumstances had taken place, and a great change also in the minds of many very intelligent men. But, at all events, it would be time enough for that lion. Gentleman to apply the charge of mystifying the public accounts by means of the Sinking Fund, when he should apply to the House to reise a loan for the sake of keeping up that Fund. , He was unable to perceive any temptations Government coultrhave . to mystify or obscure the national accounts. Nothing could he more agreeable to him, or would tend more to relieve him from trouble end toil than having the acconnts in such state that the balance sheet of the nation might be intelligible to any one on a cursory perusal of half an hour. To this propoei tionlifsiinplicittend elearnists he could riot hope to attain. When the great amount and the various sums of our revenue; and the Aivereified nature of our expenditure was considered ; when the number of laws which apply to our finances, and the -number of Year. over which our accounts extend, were taken into, view, he feared such facility to those who seek to usnlorstend the &Tema' , of the nation would nester be afforded. _ile.s]muld he most happy if he could devise any method or adopt any suggestion for render ing tle accounts so ea s y an d simple, that the attacks he shou ld have hereafter to encounter from the Honourable Gentleman might be . mote intelligible.—(Hear, hear.)—But he was accused of encreasing the taxation upon the oountry every year. Ile thought he had done the reverse. Since the time when hesntered into the office he now held, taxes bad been repealed to the amount of eight ;edintil,mecuwl7:l4 beneficialll el* e b thoth b o h gwe d holtoe community. He millions and a half. Still, however, says the Hon. Gentleman, the r c , ci fe t r i r tr h y lg . same amount is collected, and therefore there is no relief to the to n t e he w eff m e l et j brought back . the duty to what it was in the years 1801 and cif f ref o ut i e e trehdisuncotitoionnofodf duty ye upon wine. Genti Gentleman, 1802, and what was . the consequence ? That the revenue fell off in proportion to. the . reduction of duty ?. -No: the effect i 4 if 4 was, that the revenue suffered very little, because the consump-: fain was increased . Did not this show that th e publie derived of the reduction wh'ci it ha reduction ? Eveiy man svlui could, drank a go without, .was by the change. It was in this way that laenii(ool.avtttaatlnenlyktaoefgbenewiue,ifiterifioectine unable to contend with persons who assumed extraordi narywas propositions, 'each as the lion. Gentleman laid down. ; With t to thaenttinfloptiolt of spirits, he had not said the eon =Tee. • 1 , 5 4 6 : ‘+l. eferen . sumption of ~,‘ ,i,.r...,F , , , r.o. to the consumption of the re duction of duty proved • the contrary; fi nding irdiminished, he preceding year. lowered the duty, and the consumption bad got up. But they 1 1 (fergliP)0 11 04 ilrffi#9•7 l 4 4 , , 11,,beneOt to be derived from the aimmiPn e ,, It t o ~,re:tetl' 'to last year, and the duty lowered in Jaintary.V de year. ' the Honourable Gentleman . riiiilit :ii6Filniilt : _ . i 1111 1 4Heitkitiet tOnsuniption. ' He admitted there had boos no increase in the- oonsumption 011104 therefore the duty was reduced , but the Honourable Gentle man was not supported by the fact, wheat 'he said that the l i alteration in the duty had not been attended by any beneficial result. The Hon. Gentleman had found fault with him for'hav- ing, in three successive years, stated to the House the increase , of consumption of articles, and the increase of the revenue. — The Hon. Gentleman thought, because he (the Chancellor or the Exchequer) congratulated the 'low* on the increase of the ' revenue that he deprived pleasure from taking money out of the pockets of the people. Nothing could be more distant front his feelings. He was not the man to exult in that part of hie. duty which called for supplies. He had endeavoured to cone "wince the House in his statement, that the condition of the people was that of improvement. As the country preeious tie 1822 had been in distress, he adduced the consumption of articles to prove that distress had been decreased. He proved that an in- ' crease had taken place in the consumption of articles used in these parts of the country where distress had been most felt. lie had called on Gentlemen to prove, from their own observations, that the state of the country was improved. He culled on them to say, whether the scenes of confusion and bloodshed, occasioned by dpi tress, had not given way to a more proeperous state of things, sad whether the people in general were not more happy than they had ... - been. The Hon. Member said it was all flummery and flourish.' ..- ing, because he had described the revenue of 1824 to have in-' creased that of the preceding year. .It was so, and what better proof could he give of the increase of happiness and comfort among the people, than the proof that there had been an increase in the consumption of articles necessary for their support. Why did he take the year 1825 ? said . the Hon. Gentleman. The answer was, his object was to shear the public that Government and par ' Bement had made a considerable reduction of taxes. Ile proved there had been a reduction of taxation systematically carried t on, and that it 'had been coupled with an increase of cos . sumption. The Honourable Gentleman had complained that he had brought forward wool when no real advantage had been de t r coimn, i or v aui ed fonini sr: f lit. ..r t.:y o u: : atarantn t iids, l7 ll:essi t hT a reco, r t pinr i nt el osedvti e! gtedli ntt:ghlerteleherreihvgradietn. great hsnme l lailhei n en , c a ir s , aedastheae of iflsastc commodities o t of ii ,o,thpf r i t ip i tr e e z , tion, he was entitled to say there had .been that increase , and that it proved the a dv a n ce of public prosperite. The lion. Gently man a n0 11"t t; I mined th a t L,sAtc„ nit 3 not Wu...prepared to go into a 'detail of the . 'butt this " _. hc, w t 4. h ov e i)i.i e da uj' a j d e v :. — : v ohhtf,tisehxteitrtienonjtilsitt.tleu,no,sre‘.umllraleil.eiti , who were accused oktritateful . expen:liture bad a most difficult , duty to discharge, iappOrtioning suns to the items of pubfa; service. The Hon* . Gentleman had none of that awful respOwi bility which pressod - upon the Government. The cheers iu slo • oiety, and events which might unavoidably occur, rendered it accessary to provide for the welfare of the country, and it would be a neglect of duty if they did not insure the happiness and pro tection of the public upon a proper scale.—(hear.) --Any os' who who would take the trOuble.to analyze the question, wee .° say that Government had tot -proposed any force or e xpenCr for the protection of the country and the colonies, which was net necessary. In those matters which the Hon. Membei'considere d a subject of address to the Crown, they had invariably shewn that the force required was necessary. The Hon. Member always re eolved every public man's conduct with whom he was iii oppost" . tion into an immoral feeling. Thu.' merle of decision wee 0 Hon. ne:, taunt to the on. Gentleman, that be kthe Chancellor of the Exchequer) was quite Callous ; but it was' galling to hear the lion. Member ascribe to all the Government illiberal. reotiv't He did not know what there was in the Hon. Gentleman's inioai but he could not speak of the actions of ony one on the rilio6teri„' side of the House without ascribing some improper feeling. tie' was not anxious to defend himself, but his hope was, that - tlemen might not allow themselves to he the silent objects of Ow attacks. it was impossible to answer all the matter of ':tta d ausl ., introduced by the Hon. Member. No man could vote for the el resolution if he had any justice, and if not the first, tb e l, c ,,":,, not vote for any of the rest. He should not consent to the soldi er,, moved by the Honourable Member. It was the duty of P" cr : went and Parlirment to state to the Crown, that diairesses P r ': veiled in the coun, but the Him Gentleman was not entitled to charge his Majesty's try Ministers with want of common honeety, Ir . cause they' did not happen' to gees' with him in what ought !e e :: the scale of public. expeucc.- Although it WAS his duty t0 ... ° 1a 3_,.. to the address of the lion . Gentleman, there was no indiffc re s e;: on the part of his Majesty ' s Milliliters tea the distreeses and stn ferings of the country. , 4,ni. maw w ho , iiii'v those , itufferit4:! t l e who did not feel, mpat. lie., lead jhan man. The address t mil l 4 l : l ll ll l. l: ti r it . : l er i ß m e :R . : : :( e G w lcah H as em . o l e E i .: : ::ff ism 4 th thi rt ef n‘girrhiitstivienthou6 ..'ll..xig;ilietillo,n.ll:Geeniittleil.mbeeatintiii,::oll; Gentleman complained that the resooloolis DWI MIZAn.::) had it into his hands early in the d a y. .' Ho ' n o r ,`:a n o g u t, when he greater ca use of complaint , for' tileimade in the form of a bpeecb, surprise; w t o t ul aa d li n a ie ve li o n. co g u th ld o n iti ot g al h l t ow no h n ie . 61-i,nonit.emYraiertileillhxt yl':ecurlllatisnvgliv.nedblefferto::ttli'beu,:;,i7:47:°l.f Friend taken a different cour.e, • `'With respect G e ntleman , t have been given to the Right ILO. .taklelnritubyretp: . to im pute an intestlint to the fleet resolution, it was mid there was . . l i e was eitation . to the. Right Hon. Cattlemen e wilful, misrepreeL .„ , ten nea ling I ne '" convinced his lion. Friend meant no' such t i . . u.elic , ~...,.,..... Was to state that two persons ' had made different t il l ,: La r rav i 4 j o {Here Mr. Hume addressed something to Mr: /3so ST:', 010 00 induced that Gentleman to say,. ",My lion• Friel Vial. 00 me the honour to attend to . ru e."—(A laugh.).— a tlti Illin. I.earned Gentleman thee defended ' the correctrieee , ,....,a4 Member for Aberdeen. The resolution had not been . r ie u ni " ber and n ot teown:?ion,t's notice viol& . huouiP;ransehliefs, sprinted i t a iem sea sPeec al t h in h b i u th t b a u l t i t in ' He understood the -sinking In aw; against the Government. • Withrespect to p ublics olve' no lototer in ,high estimation., ... ea , ing Fund, his Honourable Friend lied . txoneratitlTl;liitlif:fl'idg:it:slll;:. there appeared touch co-- , ~ . , tiblic ow maintained by loans, .a fu nd i...oli there fore n lance-sheet might not be kept. He was convince(' p ow 11:::ettei:ethe System. i fe ,, 1 . ;i: et with the Chancellor of the Exchequer; and not with } pia t 0 1 .,„ co be un m tn ade m . might a b l e , resbepecttter I.ctoept,thwetds'ulbljecttheorassitastsaatin:ofntth:ei,":: Friend. Taking 52,000,0061. as the bum levied in taxa lo 0 ; !mumble Member for Abingdon, a :::eecioocanulmsdeimn'paLrolBee:lll:ll diminution, 1000,0001. This calculation allowed for a depreciated arrncs, i ns tead of 27, 000,0 0 0 t, ' , Med d h e little more_ p ee po pa rtef o l ia t ineut he itiootoiotntoofdrhaiswHfroonn; Fthreiepl,ro,o,..ici: people might be e ff ectitally relieved: ; 0 re' "0 0: je tii i e gwas 7. 3no ho t l io e c h . jeldsauun s itHieLltr.mwirb.aesr\difesAorrroi‘EutoßLsnotfri.osisay' r.o;Haaienficoea,vsnstwia,dolitroduedsdiitclhavelli:ftuodrterneica"titlonatielati:ti:ii:odise' Hon. Member correct. .. '' . necessary, so that the burthens . the Ora Mr. ROBERTSON rose to gi v e h is opinion 41 ) °,P . sa ted tion, but the cry of " No,. Nu! Questio n, Question ! P the Hon. Member from being heard. ' . ,-`"- Mr. lIIMIE rose to reply. Mr. ROBERTSON said his motion for adjourtinieut _.. toy seconded, and the Hoitee ~suusi t dispose of it. ', s. 'The CHAIRMAN intituatedr that he had not u nders7 motion was seceeded., - i PO' 'Alderman lIBYGAI'E.haid he had seconded the I .° o ' ber's motion. . ~..„ ....i ..: : 4; , 4 / P. .: , td. t , . 0 1 in • ; . Mi. HUME. tistn cAPtiM I ,4I hit. , reply, and dischunt rs a tleto s r . tentiqu to. he personal wititrpocet -to the Right Hon. ‘fi e . ‘, 11 ,0- ' - . . Mr. Alderman HEYGATE r rose midst loud ale' of i t i na or . tion.” He assured the Utilise thi'at he only seronded the m i " 0 4 1 , I .Adjournment, because lie'fbinight 'it would a ff ord hitn ‘ a t r F "ThitYFe.o°lfirilnaoritheokni:iogmof:aAofintdijitvo:°rn:b::_rn'ien'attr,kar,gas..."--(tiegaLtuivreddi:viiigtlhioteurt's) tlivi°ll. t The House then divided, when there appeared — ' ':,l • - - r t Against it • 7 - - ' iJO I 0 1 ..-- i ~. ~... 4 w .. ! . The other Orden' of the Day -were then disposed d ' Ai' House adjourned - at Half-past Oue o'Clock. ..,. r PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINI' HOUSE OP i:X/MAIONS.-(1111S \'') ORDEIIg OF THE PAY. 1. East India Naval Force I3ill—Tlkitd reading. 2. Prison Laws (Irdand)ll—Third reading, a 3. Holyhead Road Bill—Committee. 4. I)cbtat and Creditor .A rrangetnent tion of Revirt. 5. Yorkshire Election Rill—Thir I rcarllty. • -• , 6. Alehouses 14e-eons 13111 Second reading. 7. Benefices (Ireland) llill-=Cowifiee. atat iiiro n ° 8. Corn Lawi Act:tat-let.: 4. c. r 601 tt =Cutnocte e 9. Silk Duties !till—Report. 10. Corn Laws Act—RepaillPere"PPß• 11. Registre,gmnr A giAtna ready* • 12. Geittterk?thill' IWtlihrlkWi'BilL-= Report. 134'. RarisfrAyiitiPtint 14. Alerchant Settmetages 111-IThiril reading. 15:Valuaticen otliiiiidaMLlTltird reading. 16 . YeotaaPtY,CorPi'llWrrAclMl.