The Sun. — London, England, 1838-08-15 00:00:00

~-_ i n. Me event of their return. It was but intended to operate at; aa entence of ba n i s h ment, and that only for a time, until 13hei r rnment saw that th ey were likely to give security for s tnts g e t - 4 beha v i our i n future. It was, he would repeat, but a th2e CO ail banish ment , and even then left a door open for ri-, se . 1 ' b_ma,—( Oh , oh.) The eight others, against whom of transportation to B ermu d a h ad b een passed, were ais le . aiently dealt with, as th ey were rel i eved from the con is 4 ttif ,n of property to which they wou ld b e li a bl e un d er t h e or lins .nee of Sir J. Colborne ; and besides this, it left it open eat!.'itht G overnor to permit their return whenever it appeared that c i rcumstances would render that return consist snrt w ith the quiet and safety of the colony. It was neces- Y, 1 lowever, that the Parliament of this country should ex press: its marked opinion of the illegality of the proceeding, howev er opp os i te to cruelty might he the motive by which it Ras v, ca (- minted. I t would operate roost mischievously hereaf ex n let 'e remained a doubt upon the mind of any person that tho ordinance could be justified. He considered the ordinance ur arbitrary edict, and a going beyond the power vested in th'l Celonial Government and Legislatur e . There was no co? „g n. in The journals or anna l s o f t h e B r i t i s h H ouse o f " anr-413 wbich would serve as a precedent for such an ordi nan deat to see -acne° eight persons to banishment and fifteen , to A case had been alluded to elsewhere, but even t la " a ' - not be strictly drawn into a precedent. He meant t it he 176 • V Geo. I I , which was levelled against the sons of the in Eiyr( ec nder, condemning them to death if they were igland.—( Hear, hear.) There was, however, this differ ence, that those persons were never h subjects, and had no title to the name of Englishmen. were 'yet the birth of the Pretender was disputed, and they . h "Mt coned because they aspired to the throne of Britain, wit - e at pi assessing any claim or title. He did not object to the din a ntes on the porticn enacting that the individuals should tbe sm at t o B ermuda, for that was merely a preparatory one to 3 rwai•di ng t h em to England for tr i al, and perhaps ultimately o New South W a l es; b u t h e did o bject particularly to the sen tence of d eat h pronounce d aga i nst t h e fif teen persons who ° ght retur n to C ana d a , an d f e l t excee di ng l y grieve d at the El , ol idern nation. lie was thereby obliged to pronounce on the con liet of Lord Durham. , Sir R. IN 1 L; LIS suggested to her Majesty's Ministers that in the new Will of Indemnity nothing should be inserted which at,ifeht have 'the effect of relieving from any criminal liability t ne parties who had incurred the penalties of the law by their rebellion& conduct in the late transactions in Canada. 1 The ( 3'o L IC ITOR- G E NE R A L sa i d that he was fully pre the it) coincide in the opi n i on o f t h e A ttorney-General as to la e iet Lord Durham h av i ng excee d e d hi s power, in send. g i adlviduals out of his jurisdiction to Bermuda, but no farther. totally denied that the powers conferred by the Act were - a r li c°ls titutional. With respect to the want of precedent de e e3e l in the issue of attainders, against absent untried indivi treal2, oe reminded the House of the Acts rendering it high re ; 'en for the Stuarts to set foot in England during the 4,11 ) 1 of William 111 and for the Bonapartists to enter France e reign of Louis " XVIII. As to the ordinance being Sig t' e ' the day the Council was constituted, that was nothing 'th edi , Purpose, for the policy of it might have been sufficiently pct previously, and the Council only sworn in to give t t legality. N 014.:. EL LIS said th a t th e N o bl e Lord the Member for had str h Lancashire towards the conclusion of his able speech, the d o me Department, recomm en d e d t h e N o bl e L or d , t h e S ecretary f or °la ° Departm.nt if the Government thought that either that s oubt existed as' to the Canada Act itself, or any idea ordi e2nle. measure should be adopted for superseding the until tribunals of justice in that Colony, not to lose an hour seh; e a Bill had been introduced and passed upon those I le d' a4 s. The Secretary of State for the Home Department a. observed in reply, that himself and Colleagues had pirli,,ell,,he matter their best attention, and that a Noble certain °f his in another place had endeavoured to embody a nd t l h a words in the present Indemnity Bill with that view, the re at his Noble Friend had subsequently assured him that te sT ; 110 hope of the other House of Parliament agreeing Ila n a course. On the import of those certain words the d a nd Learned Member for Exeter had dwelt with consi erable fo in a n t . ‘c, and he (Mr. Ellis) felt persuaded that whether tead ar ' ar 'Y or a late period of Session—in a full or a thin at ceedee`e. of Members—the Noble Lord would never have suc tt,"•• to carrying such a Clause in that House.--( Hear.) bad zght the Noble Lord was not justified in alluding as he th at one to the House of Lords, and he (Mr. Ellis) was sure th e ! A IN.° proper case of emergency being now made out by ta r , lai stree the Opposition in either branch of the Legisla etruld yield their ready support.---( Hear.) si te l SIBTHORP thought that the Noble Lord oppo- A „ ... ( Lord J. Russell) would best discharge his duty to her ; . : 4j " t Y and the country by sending out a quick-sailing w"'he,airner to bring home the Noble Earl with all speed, as one Wh o 4o believed more calculated to do injury than any one had ever been sent to a British Colony. eeard 'Op; • J . RUSSELL said, that as he had been asked his rive d so pointedly, he would say that the decision he had ar thee,",,at was, that the ' safer way would be that they should pass without addine. any clauses regarding the future.ope epeeTa of the Act already passed. He had his views in this re e, confirmed by the very great diversity of opinion he ob ti,-(1 in that House on the subject to-night. He also thought le at the . better way was not to have any declaration as to the se•Tht.e.of the ordinance, but to leave the question in its pre nosition._( Hear. ) t he Bill then passede through Committee and was ordered °be r „ d . , , a a o-morrow (this day). BiIje Q GISTRATION OF ELECTORS' BILL. ere Lord s ' amendments to the Registration of Electors' then taken into consideration. ref .1.4 j * R USSELL objected to the Lords' amen d ment ating to the distance. GAfter f a ew words from Colonel Sibthorp, the Attorney orals, and Sir Thomas Fremantle, the amendment was Zreed t o . Th e N th e r oe "LE Lome then moved that the House disagree with ds' amendment to the voting of trustees. Lord chase, STANLEY and W. FOLLETT supported the After e short conversation, the House divided : For the clause Against it 43 —ls The c l aw Majority e was consequently rejected. "ereinzind er o f the Lords' amendments were then agreed to. 71 IMPRI SONMENT FOR DEBT BILL. had T.ee ATTO RNEY-GENERAL intimated that this Bill had °P from th e L or d s with an amendment to which he irepose, greate s t p l easure in assenting. It had been deemed Ist that the Bill could come into operation before the , hid„ "ecember ; but a consultation had been held with the OtlcAi s b , ani in consequence an amendment bed been intro h - Y the other House, fixing,- the Ist of October. Aneuarnendment was then agreed to. and b °N. MEMBER then moved that the House be counted, jee r IA at th irty-five M brs beince present the House ed ited e - Quarter to Two o'Clock. __,-...--- RO USE OF LORDS, AUGUST 14. ~, Th e D ROYAL ASSENT. W tiill s ,";°)'al A ssent was given by Commission to Exchequer o b\-`1,,,044,550/.) Bill, the Exchequer B p ills tie ( s Pu ß b i l l i l c , Tra r n : c .i Bill, Four and a Half per Centtnn u ce. 'r; er of Funds (War Office) Bill, Pensions Bill, Bene si "Thrinralities BM Militia Pay Bill, Militia Ballots . Suspen eirldk,aiill:lw, la of Pleading Bill, Oaths Validity Bill,. Mails Bill, Meterranean Postage Bill, .Pu o b f lic co l r v n e . - * ali t Bill, Coal Trade (London, &c.) Bill, Duchies Corn- Stock Lancaster Bill, Slave Trade Treaties Bill, Joint Ci," uanks Bill, Fines and Recognizances (Ireland) Bill, ' -a )0- l ur 1 rate Property (Ireland) Bill, County of Clare Trea -1%. Il in, and the Sugar Refining Patent Bill. of CC Co mmissioners were the Lord Chancellor, the Marquis .I,4nsdowne, and the Earl of Shaftesbury. Fi„' ' ''' Lotto CHANCELLOR took his scat on the Woolsack at • e . The Clock. T he Private Bill Deposit Bill went through a Committee. and V aluation of Land (Ireland) Bill was read a third time NI Prissy d. \i''SPAPERS.—INSERTIONS OF SCHEDULES BILL. et. °Tl the motion of Lord BROUG HAM, the Insertions of a third tiodules Bill was read a second time, committneodt, read hav e taken ~l ' e le l , and. passed. The ie N o o b bl e e ct L o or t d be would f Bill not been to v, tt a i quck !te glaring injustice to the j Propri F etors of Newspapers. pre the he Marquis of LA NSDO WN .., though he had not read e thatßill, was so convinced of the injustice it was to rem dy, 4t h e gave it his strongest support. PUBLIC EDUCATION. Jog or d BROUGHAM having dictated an order respecting a t ,ignie t case which he had given on a former day, took the ';:,_e'onn occasion of referring to the Bill on public education ti..'lleh headintroduced at an early period of the session, and kiliLed that their Lordships were aware of the reasons which had of l eed him not to press forward that Bill —viz., the pressure . Measure business. The Canada question was the first public tc,, B4 re which had interposed since he introduced the Bill, and ti ~ "L e a rlie the slavery question, and recently the Canada ques pt; ,` 14 (1 been again brought forward, so that he found it iro fitl':le to hope that either their Lordships or himself could ev,.. t "ne to entertain the education measure. He had, how- Dkrt, ree2ived a vast number of letters on the subject from all at)es,of the kin g d om, and a deputation of between forty Of lie itY EPstablersons ish of all sects and religious opinions, whether hih.led Church or Dissenters, had waited on th at tl llon the subject of the Bill, the result of which was on e hsall agreement or understanding had been come to upon Ni i ''ost important point, viz., that which had reference to io,gll.lls i nstruction. It was admitted that the authorised ver llatr°l the Holy Scriptures should form the basis of religious diffie4e,tion imparted. regard was, indeed, a sine qua non. Some .1,,,,,:1itY was felt as ged the Roman Catholics and the Jth at s on this reading of the Scriptures, and it was suggested ew s w hen it took pace the children of both Catholics and fe ar% 410tild not be required to be present. He entertained no Th e ;''.ltatever but all difficulty on that head would be removed. thr"'ssenters, as well as the Catholics and Jews required Itrkie,Ohildren should not be called upon to take part in the in th, ',!:111 when the subject was connected with the teaching of t oa k ; 'lurch Catechism or the Thirty. nine Articles. The three a tre . :ls to be observed, to which he h?lieved all parties would an d •' W ere, in essentialibus unitas, in non essentialibus libertas, these 14 omnibus caritas. The only difficulty in carrying out kiltilaxims would be as to the interpretation of them. The '4o!_ an d Le arned Lord then said he would withdraw his Bill. LBill was c onsequently, by leave of the House, withdrawn. Ql 4 , 'I LYNDHURST rose to present a petition from charitv' signed by 600 of the most wealthy mere tl , for bankers of that city, complainin g of the state It ,:. 'oreign trade of this country, and seeking for redress. th, 4_B not his intentio n to enter into a detailed statement of klll),,reT:ltters complained of by the petitiont,rs—he should iy - i ' l lurtly refe r , thcae. and cuter int , , the matter Inure tli t4 n tile next oess, en . The Noble and e d Lk ti r eferred to the state of the foreign trade of thc country, from which it appeared that in almost ever:) , article a great falling off in the demand had taken place. This was the consequence of the supineness of the Government, in conse quence of which establishments had arisen in central Germany, which promised fair to compete with this country : This he would venture to say would not have been the case if a little di plomatic skill had been shown by a Noble Lord in another place ; By the treaty of Vienna the waters of Poland had . been de clared open to all the world, but by the subjugation of that country the Russian Tariff had been established, and that treaty had been violated. The Noble Lead was here interrupted by the Usher of the Black Rod appearing at the Bar, and informing their Lordships that the Managers on behalf of the Commons were ready for a conference upon the Imprisonment for ,Debt Bill. The Noble Lords composing the conference were the Earl of Devon, Lord Abingdon, Lord Hawarden, the Bishop of Hereford, Lord Redesdale, Lord Rayleigh, and Lord De Mauley. On the return of the conference, The Earl of Devon stated that their Lordships had disagreed to certain of the amendments, and agreed to others. A Conference was also had upon the Sheriffs' Courts (Scot land) Bill. Lord LYNDHURST then resumed. Another point re lated to Cracow—it was provided by the Treaty of Viena, that no armed force should enter into that Republic. In violation of that treaty an armed force had entered, and altered its laws.—( Hear, hear.) It was then felt necessary that a Consul should be appointed there; a representa fion was made to the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Department on the subject, he promised that a Consul should be appointed, but he had broken his faith upon that subject, and the consequence was that the trade of this country there had been greatly injured. Another poi n t was w i t h respect to t h e tra d e i n gum. V essels in that trade had been seized by France, and no redress had been sought by the Government. Our trade with Java and Algiers, which was at one time considerable, had been almost annihilated, in consequence of the breaking of treaties which the Government of this country had not sought to protect. What !gad led to the situation of this country with respect to Persia, but the conduct of the Foreign Government of England. The Noble Lord concluded by stating his intention to enter into the subject more fully in the next Session. Viscount MELBOURNE, considering the great spirit of speculation that had taken place, thought it was not extraor dinary that the exports of the country had failed. The peti tion was signed in June last, and he thought he might complain of the Noble and Learned Lord that the presentation of the petition had been postponed to the end of the session. It might be better that the subject should have no effect at that time ; but if the commercial interests of the country were neglected, as the petitioners said, the petition should have been brought forward at an earlier day, The Noble and Learned Lord stated that the exports had decreased during the last year. It was true that during the last two years the exports to all parts of the world had decreased; but when over-trading and the embarrassments of the United States were taken into consideration, it was not a matter to excite surprise or alarm for the future. No doubt there would be that revival of trade whirl. in all commercial affairs was common. The Noble and Learned Lord had pointed to the commercial union on the continent of Europe, under the guidance of Prussia, and which combined the inte rests of so many States of Germany. If that union was hos tile to the trade of this country, they had no right to com plain. It was a league they had a right to form, and when the Noble and Learned Lord said a little political address might have prevented it, he (Lord Melbourne) did not know how that could have been done. The main object of that union was a prohibition ; but whilst we ourselves kej t so high a prohibition against the stable commodities of other nations, we could not complain.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord had alluded to the state of Poland, upon which he did not then wish to make any observation. He really thought the Noble and Learned Lord exaggerated when it was asserted that his Noble Friend pledged himself to send out an agent to Cracow. The next point was a dis pute with France on the subject of the gum trade, on the coast of Senegal. Although the Noble and Learned Lord made out negligence, that really was not the case, and the Noble and Learned Lord might depend that neither the interests of the merchants nor the honour of the country would be sacrificed. With respect to the duties of Java, they arose in consequence of the treaties of 1824. The Noble and Learned Lord raid nothing of an hostile character, and he should say nothing more than that himself and other Members of the Govern ment thought they had taken more pains than their pre decessors to settle that question. With respect to Holland, unexpected circumstances had tended to reduce our in fluence ; but they had induced her to receive British ves sels on the footing of the most friendly nation. They then came to the affairs of Algiers. The occupation of that part of Africa by the French was satisfactory, and they had a right to adopt such commercial regulations as they thought proper. With respect to Persia he did not deny that the Court of that Empire was under the influence of a certain foreign power, but he did not know that anybody was to blame for this. Mech of this was owing to a former wo- in which Persia had been engaged, and by which she had lost a considerable por tion of territory ; but, at all events, he did not think this in fluence was caused by the treaty which had been entered into by Russia with Turkey. and to which the Noble and Learned Lord seemed to attribute it entirely. Of this, however, he was sure, that it was not to be attributed to the lukewarmness of her Majesty's Ministers in reference to anything that re lated to the honour and ch-actor of this country, and he trusted that the community would feel that neither its honour nor its interest would, for one moment, be lost sight of or forgotten.—( Hear, hear. ) Viscount STRANGFORD then proceeded to say that he had given notice on a former night of his intention to put a question to the Noble Lord at the head of the Government, in reference to the present state of our foreign commercial re lations. His purpose would be fully answered if the facts which he would state, and the observations which he should offer on those facts, induced her M ijesty's Government to take such steps as were right and necessary, in order that the grievance which affected foreign commerce might be removed.—( Hear. ) If they did not do this, the result would be that they would have to meet again, probably in November, not as they did last year for the purpose of applying a remedy to a disease, but to apply a remedy to meet the consequences arising from a rash and inconsiderate concession made to a foreign power. —( Hear, hear.) The N able Lord then proceeded to advert to the blockade which the French had established on the coast of Mexico, and he had to lament that this country had not interfered to prevent this blockade, which was so pre judicial to British interests. Surely it could not be that our Foreign Minister, who had served for so many years under so many different Governments, who had eaten of the bread of nine' Administrations—( A laugh)—who had served so many apprenticeships under so many different masters, was unable to understand, or incapable of performing the duties connected with his high and responsible office.—( Hear, hear.) He wished to know what steps ha .l been taken by this Govern ment to save the re üblies of South America from the aggres sions which had been of late constantly practiced towards them by the French Government.—( Hoar, hear.) The system of aggression adopted by the French towards these republics was peculiar in its nature. He would just give their Lord ships an instance. The French Government male a demand upon the Government of Mexico, for compensation on ac count of losses sustained by the French inhabitants of that place during the disturbances which had occurred there. The compensation d maanded was 600,000 dollars, or 120,000/. sterling. The Mexican Government resisted the demand, on the ground of its being an exorbitant one. Whether it was so or not he would leave it to their Lordships to say, when he stated one of the items which formed a part of this sum. A French pastrycook, whose she t ) was pillaged of sundry puffs, tarts, and sweetmeats, during the disturbances by the soldiers, magnifies this attack upon his tarts as an out rage against the Goren-uncut of Louis Philippe arid the great French nation—( A laugh)—and accordingly makes the da mage done to him to amount to 20,000 dollars, or 5,0001. ster ling. Of such items was the 120,000/. demand composed, and because this was not paid a blockade is declared by the Admiral on the station ; and thus is an interruption given to the direct trade of this country with Mexico, which amounted annually to something like four millions sterling.—( Hear, hear.) A stop was also put in a great measure to the mining transactions between this cauntry and Mexico in con sequence of this blockade. Then, again, with respect to Buenos Ayres the same game was played by the French. The Noble Lord then adverted to what he called the worst part of the conduct of the French in reference to the north-cast part of the Brazils. This was a question of boundary. The matter was left to the celebrated Baron Humboldt, who decided in favour of the claims of the Portuguese, and against that put forward by the French Government. The French, however, would not accept the decision, and they seized on a territory in the Brazils extending to three hundred miles.—( Hear, hear. ) Now, nothing whatever was dons by us to prevent this most unjust aggression on the part of the French. But it might be said, were our interests affected by this con duct ? He would answer in the affirmative, for by it the French made themselves masters of the great river the Amazon, and of the several smaller rivers that were tributary to it, and they thereby commanded and controuled any inter course that might be had with the great body of Indians that dwelt on the banks of the river Amazon. This aggression, too, was justified by the French Government, for the Cham ber of Deputies voted a sum of money for the support of those who held possession of the territory on the part of the French Government, and lately the French Ministers justify the occupation of the place, in consequence of the advan'age which it is to the French nation —( Hear, hear.) He thought that these were matters that called for the serious considers. tion of the Government, and he owned that lie was not a little surprised that interference on our part had been so long withheld. He wished for no quarrel with the French, but he implored her Majesty's Ministers to exercise their moral influence to restrain France from doing that to weaker states which is manifestly injurious to the prosperity of the country which lives, moves, and has its being in the success of our commercial relations.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord was about to conclude by putting a question, when he was inter rupted by Lord BROUGHAM, who rose and said—My Lords, if I had been aware that my Noble and Learned Friend had in tended to have brought the subject forward, I should certainly have prepared myself to have entered into the discussion ; but as such has not been the case, I will trouble your Lordships with a few observations only generally upon the subject. I must, however, my Lords, in the first place, bear testimony to the very able, clear, and masterly statements of my Noble and Learned Friend in bringing before your Lordships, at the very close, I admit, of the Session, and at a time when there is not an opportunity of bestowing upon it that attention which a subject of such magnitude deserves—namely, the subject of the whole foreign relations of this country, through the me dium cat witiett our comin ,, reial interests arc carried on and protected. Although, toy Lords, the petitioners only refer to tASete QWU interests, yet the general interests of the country are involved in the subject. The observations of my Ri Hon. Friend, who had last addressed your Loriships, were only with reference to one branch of the discussion —namely, the foreign relations of this country with those of South Ame rica. My N o bl e an d L earne d F r i en d w h o presente d t h e peti tion has taken a wider range, for his observations applied to the subject generally. I also, my Lords, understood my Noble Friend, in addition to entering into the foreign relations of the New World, to refer very properly, I admit, to the eastern parts of the old, with respect to which his opinions are entitled to great weight and consideration, from the fact of his having for a considerable period lent his valuable assis tance in watching over the interests of this country- in that quarter, and I have no doubt that her Majesty's Ministers during the recess will accede to his request, and bestow their best attention on this important though somewhat complicated subject. With respect to the still greater question which my Noble and Learned Friend has brought before your Lordships as to the diminution of the influence and power of this country, and of the di m i nu ti on i n t h e amount o f th e commerce o f the cowl: try, if the facts are as he has represented them, of which I enter tain not the slightest doubt, because I am sure my Noble and Learned Friend would not have stated them without he had full grounds for doing so—if the facts are, my Lords, as he has stated them, then, unquestion a bly, th e y d eserve t h e b est and most serious attention of Parliament and the Executive Govern ment. It is a most hard and unhappy circumstance, but it is nevertheless true, that at the end of so many years of peace, and of a peace, it must be remembered, succeeding a war of unexampled brilliancy and success—after such brilliancy and gfftonerre enemies, o ehrne epusue:h success of the British arms—after the brilliant con tests which have crowned our efforts with greater success than at any other period of the history of this country pecuniary p E o a s English s fhm aiding resources ae y oht al se rg has paoewo ev b re e sr e n to —after such pecuniary sacrifices—after the expenditure of our against mthoe t Continen t th la eir i sfho—r lavish—after after victories obtained in all parts of the world, from the risin g of the Sun in the E ast to i ts go i ng down in the West whether in the East or in the West, in Spain er in France, or in Belgium, wh ere our crown i ng v i ctory was gained—afte; all these unexampled successee and after such an ex penditure of blood and treasure, it is a most unhappy circumstance that the influence of England, as regards Foreign Powers should have fallen beck instead of having in creased.—( Cheers. ) Such a state of things, my Lords, i s deeply to be d e pl ore d, an d f urn i s h es matter' for melancholy consideration. It is a most unhappy state of things, but no one can say, that throughout the whole of these proceedings, the conduct of Great B. itain has not been wholly disinterested.— ( Cheers.) I am sure, my Lords, that no nation in Europe can say that England ever fought or spent her money for any selfish British objects.—( Cheers.) I • differed, my Lords, from those who thought the carrying on of the war necessary, but at the same time, I fe e l b oun d to b ear testimony to the purity of the motives of those who carried on the war. (Cheers.) It is vexatious, my Lords, after the expenditure of so much blood and treasure, that England should have greatly lost her influence instead of being clothed with the character of a mediator for the rest of the world. I look forward to the re-construction of the whole fabric of European dominion—l look forward to the establishment of new arrangements and new relations with regard to our foreign intercourse, upon the principles of civil, not of religious, re formation—l look forward to the time when this country will stand at the head of the liberal and constitutional party in Europe, in the same manner as she was the protectress of the principles of reformation in the time of Elizabeth. My Lords, my political creed with respect to our foreign affairs is simple —and I speak with due deference before those Noble Lords who possess a more intimate acquaintance with diplomatic laws —the meridian line which I should draw through the great and inexplicable map of Continental affairs, with all its en tanglements and confusion—the meridian line which I should draw through the whole, and to which I should refer the se veral parts, would be England and France, friends, and upon constitutional and liberal principles—principles of perfect equa lity and absolute independence—of pure and unsullied national honour on the one side and on the other—the one neverattempt ing to infringe upon the other—the one never endeavouring to lower the other or to throw distrust or suspicion upon its pro ceedings, because such distrust would be sure to end in hostility ; but maintaining the relation of amity, and it might of alliance together, and then they may in. the first place defy the world in arms, and, in the next place, dictate peace to the world, and preserve the peace of the world upon such principles as would be most conducive to the improvement and happiness of mankind.—( Hear, hear.) My Lords, I heartly rejoice to think that these two great nations continue to stand towards one another in those relations of confidence, good will, and friendship, and although the circumstance may appear trifling, I cannot help, as small objects appear great when near at hand, ad verting to a matter at which I was very much pleased, namely, the excellent reception given to the foreign Ministers generally, on a late occasion, as evincing the friendly dispositions of this country) but particularly to that very illustrious warrior (Marshal Soult) whom the Noble Duke oppo site ( Wellington) admitted to have been one of his most formidable opponents, although that Noble Duke had defeated him, for beat him, I believe to have been impossible. This I look upon as a very happy circumstance, as tending to cement and consolidate those feelings of good will between the two countries. Now, with respect to our interference in the af fairs of the East, I must say, that the less we interfere, accord ing to my rude and unlettered view of the subject, the better. That there may be occasions when we must interfere, I admit, and then it should be done firmly and with out the least apprehension of consequences, and thus far I go with my Noble Friend opposite ( Lord Strangford.) It was no proof of the weakness of a nation to refrain from interference in small matters—tranquillity and repose were generally the characteristics of power and might, and a confi dence in the resources which were at command, rather than of weakness and imbecility. Weak nations were generally jealous of their reputation; and I have often heard it said that little men are touchy and testy—( A laugh)—and apt to attri bute puny and personal motives to others merely because their own ideas and intellects are stunted and contracted ; and as it is with these pigmies so it is with nations. The stunted under standings of such men and such nations cannot soar up to comprehensive and enlarged ideas carried into effect by di s i e . terested and straightforward men. So it is with little nations —I mean small in mental power, who ascribe the honest and straightforward actions of other countries to motives which they are incapable of. Therefore I do not think that avoiding interference, and remaining tranquil on certain occa. sions, makes us less weak in times when we are called upon to exercise our power and authority. Ido not mean ":thelbalance of power" as it has been termed, but the weight and influence which we should have in foreign affairs at any given time in any part of the world. Circumstances may arise in which neither my Noble Friend, nor Lord Chatham himself if he were living, with all the resources of the British empire at his command—with a unanimous House of Parliament, instead of a House of Lords against him, and narrow majorities in the House of Commons in his favour—l believe with even all these favourable circumstances my Noble Friend could not have gained more wei g ht than he has, or could not have altered the cours e of events, unless he had gone to war with all mankind-- that last most desperate, and, unless unavoidable, most guilty of courses, unless the preservation of our country require s i t , —(Hear.) My Lords, lam not satisfied, any more than my Noble Friend at the head of Foreign Affairs, at the course pursued by the French Government with respect to Algiers. It is not at all creditable to that Government, that having in the first instance stated that they did not intend to occupy that country, nevertheless have held it for seven years—it is, to say the least of it, very unsatisfactory. Ido not believe, nor is it consistent with nay knowledge or recollection of any opinion professed in public, or stated privately by my Noble Friend, that he ever said, either that he approved of, or was satis fied with, the course pursued by the Fi ench Government. But it is one thing to be dissatisfied, and another to demand satisfac tion. It might be said why did not my Noble Friend remonstrate —why did he not send Ambassadors ? Why did he not threaten ? But, my Lords, if there is a mode more simple, more short, and more sure than any other to lose all the influence a nation possesses, it is to threaten what you do not mean to do.— ( Hear and cheers.) It is the same with respect to nations as it is in individual cases, and I think therefore that my Noble Friend does wisely not to threaten until he is ready to act ; not to act until the necessity arises, and to pass over minor matters where much more important objects are to be gained by the concession, and where more important interests are at stake.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") For the reasons I have already stated I cannot enter more largely into the different matters adverted to in this petition, but I wish to say one word with respect to our commercial policy. It ap pears that up to 1836 our foreign trade had been going on prosperously, but since then in Poland, in the Levant, and the Dardanelles, there has been a falling off. lam not much sib - - prized at this falling off during past y ears, but I look with still more apprehension to another point, the future—because I know that there are circumstances in the position in which we stand with regard to the Northern and Eastern Powers of Europe, where the defalcation principally is—there are cir cumstances of a nature that must not only not diminish the amount of the defalcation, not only not equal the pres ent amount, but in my opinion tend very greatly to increase that . defalcation, and against which circumstances no one strugg le that we have hitherto made, up to the last three years, has proved successful—circumstances, which will in the end, 1 fear, defeat that vi v id a v i s of Engli di commerce, which has t en abled it to overcome and surmount obstacles and difficulties that no other nation could contend w ith ; much of this arises from the vicious sy s t em o f commerc i a l l eg i s l at i on w hi c h a t p re sent exists. What is one of them—just observe : you cannot trade with the east of Europe unless you allow it to trade with you in return Now, take the Baltic : timber is there cultivated, they,have the finest timber, the best for ship-building, it is the best for the hull, and th e b est f or t h e masts; if you want to tra d e with them the natural course is to enable them to send home their timber for your hardware, your cotton and silk goods ; but what do you do ? Why you levy a duty on Baltic timber for the purpose of protecting the growers of timber in Canada, the Canadian timber b e i ng o f a d ec i dedly inferior d escr i p tion. Gentlemen in the other House thought fit to decree that the Baltic trade sho u ld b e stunte d to all time by a majority of forty , and be restrained f rom ga i n i ng i ts natural dimensions in order to protect the disadvantageous commerce of Canada; and you therefore have a worse article, not at a cheaper, but a d ea rer rate. Now this is not the fault of the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, but of the system. I will now give your Lord ships another reason for the decline of trade : you don't deal in timber alone—you de a l in corn.._( Laughter.) The great staple of those countries b or d er i ng on the Baltic, next to tim ber, is grain : Plentiful and cheap as is the grain produced in those countries, it is peremptorily said to the people, not withstanding, " You shall not only have bad houses, but dear bread." And yet, at t h e very t i me you s t u nt the Baltic trade in its two gre a t s t ap l es o f t i m b er and grain, you complain that th e t e e d . - o f t h i s ceun try with the Baltic has fallen oil'. I'o be sure, it must tali of'. The consequence of this system of policy is, that you ruin your commerce and force the people to cat dear brcad, and to THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 15, 1838, live in uncomfortable houses. In the first place, the price of 1 thour in this country is rendered dear by the dearness of bread. And in the second place, it is not to be expected (although I know there is some doubt on the working of that proposition) that they will take our manufactures when we will not take their timber in return. How can you export your manufac tures to the Baltic when you won't take their timber and grain in return ? Well, the price of the quartern loaf has risen from 71d. to 11d. What is the price of the quartern loaf at Amsterdam and Antwerp? Why it is 52 per cent cheaper. It is not very comfortable for the people of England to know that owing to the Corn-laws they are eating bread 52 per cent. dearer than the Amsterdam and Antwerp people ; and there is a tax paid—taking the consumption of this country at 22,000,000—there is a tax paid by the people of this country from 17,500,0001. to 18,000,0001. a year—another tribute to that exceedingly vicious system. There is Dantzie, Riga, Koningsberg—you can't trade with those towns ; and then not only do you stunt your manufactures, by shutting up your exportation for want of an equivalent return ; but you raise the price of labour, by raising the price of the best ar ticle of food in this country, which prevents you entering into competition with the French and Flemish manufacturers. They have cheaper labour, because they have cheaper bread. So that you are burning the candle, as it were, at both ends —( A laugh)—vou are refusing to take the cheaper produce of those countries on the one hand, and on the other, by this suicidal species of policy, you invite foreign manufacturers to enter into compe tition with you, with the immense advantage of cheaper bread, and consequently of cheaper labour. That is one solution of the phenomenon justly deplored by my Noble and Learned Friend and Myself. In both ways you are contracting and ruining your own trade. My Lords, I was greatly surprised—l was mor tified to hear the Noble Viscount (Melbourne), upon the last occasion that this subject was before your Lordships, state in a very peremptory manner that his Government would not take the subject of the Corn-laws into their consideration. There is not a more gross or inexcusable fallacy than to suppose that because the law states that, when the price of grain in Eng land reaches 733., the entrance of foreign grain is no longer pro hibited ; the price in the English market being now up to 705., an advance of 3s. aquarter more in the price will open the ports to the entrance of foreign grain. This is a downright fallacy. What trader would ever venture into the corn trade when he knows that he is at the mercy of the winds and the waves, and that no man can calculate the prices at the precise time of arri val ? No man can tell w hen the ports will open or when they will shut—no man can tell. For example; he might send out his ship, on speculation, when the price was 735.; but before the wind and the waves would allow his ship tocome home with the grain he finds the price has fallen below 735., and the ports are shut ; consequently his ship would be obliged to return to the Baltic with the grain. And thus, in consequence of the existing law, the corn trade is a gambling trade—an uncertain trade; and respectable men are very loath and very unwilling to enter into the corn trade, because they know the law has filled it with uncertainty and incentives to gambling spe culation, no man knowing how long the parts will remain open when once they are so. My Lords, om l uint ou de g o l i l n, t to apologise to your Lordships for having dwelt so long on t hi s subject, and at t hi s l ate per i o d o f t h e S ess i on. It is, howe ver , one t h at a l wa y s occu pi es m y a tt en ti on . With any good to the landlord, it is, as a Noble Friend of (Earl Fi.zwilliam) has said—the only person with whom I agree in this House on this subject, and who is the greatest landlord in England or Ireland—it is a gross delusion to sup pose that any thing could be so good for the landlord as to have a fixed duty, which would cause corn always to be at a steady price. It would be better for the country—it would be as good for the producer, in my opinion, as it would be good for the consumer. My Lords, these are the obser vations of camtlab,l3uslt Tecet ihsrhoto on,ui s snsppcioaocoot. which niffnnnnk ativeye er: l l e. eeddeNenveo intoc e tnHeb: m s;eieaLd e l d ew: it N m G y duty T o N to said make that undoubtedly this no thing could be more important than the state of our com mercialTdrvadiieshstndcietoruyonats h t hs htiaoaooetdfpnr topics colh u josfae n tf nte w intH i h l a l suchoftoi ou n s s ue g s o an : sd l m a n vlt t . e ata e h i et e a a e r tiNr : m s O h s p o t u ee b l ew r l e he is i o t s h d daoni us ti always d o_n t ric L o e ot a ran rn -nl e la d ewrse L qa o un rd edst h ito a hn d e mooted on that ni g ht res p ec ti ng t h e i r ir of tim tr b a e ffi r e t , r i a t de w . as T a h g ei u r es t t i i m on be o r f tra n d a e vig w a a - s tion and of colonial policy. As to our Corn-laws, there were considerations to which the Noble and Learned Lord had taken very good care not to allude. He had not alluded to the influence of the Corn-laws upon Ireland—(Hear)—nor yet upon the security which the country thereby enjoyed of obtaining a regular supply of food. If this country was dependent on the Baltic for the supply of its food, we should have in a short time Russia levying a tax upon it as it had done before. Our foreign policy was never brought before that House but they were met by somebody either with the Ccrn-laws or the timber trade. He agreed with the Noble and Learned Lord in the propriety of avoiding all threats and all appearance of forcing our commerce on our alliances or foreign nations. However, he attributed the state of our commercial relations at present to the extreme weakness of our naval establishments.—( Hear, hear.) He disapprove of some expeditions which had been made not long since by this country, but he complained that our naval establishment was too weak to give protection to the extensive commerce of our country, and to our ships, which visit every quarter of the globe. He blamed not the Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty for this weak state of our navy, but he blamed d those who e eall were our b ays endeavouring , is hmen ts. _(iie a rt establishments.—(Hear, reduce he ar. t ) He t e o o low a d idnot attach much importance to the question between the French and the Mexican Governments. The matter in dispute was altogether not more than 150,0001. He had some doubt whether it would not be worth the while of the great Mex ican mineholders to pay the sum at once, and relieve the country from the blockade. The French Government had thought proper to declare war against Mexico to recover the dema n d. He disputed not their right to do so, but he thought it was the duty of the Ministers of this country to turn their serious attention to the matter, and to endeavour, by every description of amicable office, to put an end to the dispute. He desired to have an amicable intercourse in that quarter, but to have an amicable intercourse he thought that it was nece ss ary that this country should be on an equality in point of strength with other Powers. He did not wish that we should be proposing an amicable intercourse to those who may turn round on us and say that we had not a right to interfere, that we had not as much as a cockboat on the waters. Th er e should be a force there to enable the com mander of her Majesty's ships to watch what was going for ward. He regretted that their navy had been reduced too low to enable them to give protection to her Majesty's sub jects. He doubted now that if he could induce the Govern ment to !ook these questions in the face, and to adopt the lane of conduct which he recommended, this country would sc on g et out of all such petty difficulties as the blockade of Mexico. The Earl of MINTO said that he agreed with the Noble Duke that at times a disposition had existed to reduce too far the strength of our establishments, but he believed that such a desire existed no longer. For that reason, if the amount of our naval force was not sufficient for the public service, he should take blame to himself, as he did not be lieve that there would be any difficulty in getting a larger vote, if necessary, to make up a larger amount of force. We have new from seventeen to eighteen sail of the line in commission, and of that a considerable part is immediately disposable. Another advantage we also have is that arrange ments have been made by which a large additional force could be made up within a very short time whenever a necessity for them may arise. On the eastern side of America, though w e m ay not have force sufficient to contend with any European power, yet we have a larger force there than any European power at present has. We could easily send out three or four more sail of the line if they were required. As to the blockade there c ould be no doubt of its legality. It was not necessary to establish the legality of the blockade that previous notice should be given. The naval force of the country is much larger than it has been for many years, and there would not be found the least difficulty in sending out a much larger force in a short period. rrhein Earl the of iN Th e Duke of WE LLINGTON was happy to hear the statemen t made by the Noble Earl ; but he had heard that th e ships St. Lawrence ne s e ai w d er te were but Noble elf Duke ma meant nned that the . vessels in the St. Lawrence were but half armed and manned. The fact was, some of their guns were taken out to enable them to carry troops, and the men were in proportion to the guns. It was also preferred to send out ships of the line short of their full compliment of guns and men to sending out large frigates. Lord BROUGHAM agreed with the Noble Duke in re commending his th t e r y ad w o. ere l s a ur a e d t d o i g ti i o v n e r t i o se t t o ho disc N u o s b si l o o ns p on ok t e h , e s his friend not to bring on q ues ti ons o f t hi s sort ta. a l u gm t a h bin o e r r; ity, he might add his own to confirm what the Noble Duke had predicted, that every time the subject of the trade with the east was br oac h e d, h e s h ou ld always bring forward the Timber-laws and the Corn-laws.—( Laughter.) Lord STRANG FO RD then moved his resolution for an address to her Majesty for copies of all notices given by the French Government to the British Government of blockades carried on by them on th e coast o f S out h A mer i ca ; and cop i es of some other papers, the names of which were not distinctly beard. Viscount MELBOURNE said there was no objection to grant the first papers in the Noble Lord's motion, and he believed the others were not in existence. Blockades were very disagreeable things, but they were resorted to by all nations, and all we were entitled to do was to see that they were legally carried on, and with a sufficient force. We had no right to constitute ourselves judges of the cause of war between the nations—that would be to take a part in the dis pute. The Mexican Government offered to leave the cause in dispute to the arbitration of Great Britain ; but the French Government said we had no right to interfere. The resolution was then put, and agreed to. THE TRADE OF CALCUTTA. Lord B ROUGHAM—I have now to present to your Lord ships a petition which, whether we regard the subject matter of it or the importance and number of the persons who have signed it, deserves very great attention. It has been placed in m y bands by an Honourable and Learned Gentleman, who was sent over to this country as the agent, formally authorised by the inhabitants of Calcutta, whose confidence he has long pos sessed, whose esteem he has well merited, whose respect for his talents and high professional character, he has attained in an unexampled de7ree. The Right Honourable Gentleman, the Judge Advocate, Mr. Cutlar Ferguson, is the only Gen tleman who ever had a larger p o rtion of confidence , than Mr. Turton. T he petition is on a subject of great importance. It is on the subject of one of the late Acts of the Indian Go vernment, No 11 of the Acts of 1836, commonly called the Black Act, I name it so for shortness, and not invidiously. It _f• 'lip, • (L•.;st th an t 6,, , 9 I)ej. petition era are the respectable inh a bit an t s an d merchants of Calcutta, in the first instance ; the Hindoos, in the next place; and lastly, there are a great number of Parsees. All these persons strongly represent the iniquity to them, the injustice to them, and the absurdity itself and repugnance to all principle of this Act, which under the semblance of giving equal laws to the natives and Europeans, places the latter on the most cruel, unequa l, an d un j us t footing. It enacts, " keeping the word of promise" to the ear only, that persons of whate ver c l ass , co l our , & c ., shall be subject to be tried for all ma tt ers an d b y t h e same J u d ges , b y th e native Judges, or Imaums, in the Zillah, or local courts, which try seven -tenths of the immense number of causes in the country Now the consequence of that is neither more nor less than this, that these persons being subject in a majority of cases to be tried an d h ave t h e i r r i ghts disposed of by English law, that law is to be administered to them by writers who go out from this country and never were lawyers at all, who know nothing of the English law, and who sit as Judges in the Zillah Court of the First Instance, in the Provincial Court, or Court of Appeal, which is the intermediate Court, and in the Sudder Dewanny Adawlut Court, or Court of the Last Instance. Not only are they tried by these Judges who know nothing of the matter, comparatively, but they are tried, seven out of ten, by the Imaums, or native Judges, who know no more of Comyn's Digest, or Blackstone's Commentaries than we do of the Pundits or the Koran. This is what is called equal law, this is putting the natives and the English on the same footing. It is good for the natives, because it is the native law which is administered by natives ; but it is not good for us, for they have to administer the English law to the English. And then it is said, " Oh, but there is no change in the law—it remains the same as before." To be sure it does, and so much the worse. The change is made of the people who administered the law, and that is as bad as if the law were changed, and worse.—( Hear, hear.) Having said thus much, I 4 am naturally called on to say that the English merchants in Calcutta, who are interested in the trade of the whole country, and the natives who have the English laws administered to them by these exceedingly ignorant and incompetent Courts, object to this as much as the English. I gravely doubt whether this is a legal Act, and the ground of my doubt is this. By the 43d section of the 3 and 4 William IV., c. 85 (the Act of 1832) it is enacted that no laws or regulstions shall be made by the Governor in Council which shall in any way affect any prerogative of the Crown. Now mark how this affects the prerogative of the Crown. It takes away ap peal. The British Courts, whose jurisdiction is here ousted and supplanted by the native Courts, is confined to cases of 50,000 rupees, or 4,0001. sterling. The appeal in these Courts is as low as 5,000 rupees or 4001. sterling. Is that no ousting of the jurisdiction of the King in Council ? It is a most mate rial one. Is that not i n any way touc hi ng or affecting the prerogative of the C rown ? I t i s tak i ng away appeal in the great majority of cases—for cases there are important, which exceed 4001. sterling. This is not only trenching on the pre rogative of the Crown, but it is a great hardship. I will not detain your Lordships longer. I have stated briefly and accurately the real merits of the case, and un less I see some reason to alter the strong opinion which I have formed on the subject, I shall feel it my duty, as the adviser of your Lordships to bring in the Bill of 1833, to bring the matter under the consideration of the House. Lord LYNDHURST—What does the petition pray? Lord BROUGHAM—It only prays that the premises may be taken into consideration. The Duke of WELLINGTON said it would be very de sirable for Noble Lords, before they decided upon the matters contained in the petition, to look into the whole discussion which had taken place in 1833 on the subject, as from those discussions a good deal of information might be acquired. Lord BROUGHAM.—The Noble Duke is perfectly right. It is a vexata questio. lam informed that this is not the act of Commission—it is the recommendation of one of the Com missioners, and the others were not of the same opinion, but it was adopted by the Commissioners in Council. 1 now wish to ask the attention of your Lordships for one moment, whilst I state that I have been intrusted with a petition on the subject of negro slavery, which has been mislaid, but the purport of which I think it necessary to state to the House. The peti tioners, after thanking your Lordships for what you had already done on this subject, pray your constant and unremitting at tention to what remains to be done in watchiug over the Colo. nial Legislatures of the country ; and the grounds of the prayer are these :—That symptoms have already been perceived of ill-will towards the new arrangements by those bodies, and that though they were unanimous in favour of emancipation, as far as their voices went, yet in their hearts they were not so. They stated that Barbadoes for instance, which behaved so ad mirably at first in passing the Emancipation Act, has passed no less than five Acts, all of which have received the sanction of the Executive Government, and are in operation, and designed o keep up coercive labour though the slave is nominally free, and that in British Guiana two ordinances of a most stringent nature have passed, the enforcement of which the petitioners apprehend will render freedom but a name in these Colonies. There is wealth and power on one side and none on the other, which will always make one class at the mercy of the other. I, therefore, hope that your Lordships and the Government Kill be aware of this, and think they ought to require a sus pensory clause in every Act that is passed. TRADING COMPANIES BILL. Lord BROUG HAM—I should hope that the Noble Lord on the Woolsack does not mean to press this most exception able Bill, founded on a principle the most abominable, for carrying into effect the bad Act of last Session, giving rise to every species of fraud and dishonesty. It has not answered in France. A man of straw is set up, and all the rest are answerable only to the amount of about 100/. I hope the present Trading Companies Act will not pass, and if it is brought forward now, I shall move that it be read a third time this day three months. The LORD CHANCELLOR—My Lords, the reason ftr introducing the Bill is, that the former Acts have proved in effectual for the purposes for which they were intended. Lord BROUGHAM—My Lords, we are now, it appears, to be told that the Acts in existence are ineffectual. I could demonstrate not only that they are ineffectual, but that all great and practical authorities consider them placed upon a fallacious foundation, and are decidedly against them. I find, my Lords, that in France the practice has been attended with the worst consequences. I hope, therefore, my Noble and Learned Friend will give up the Bill. The LORD C HANCE L L OR—I cannot give up the Bill. Lord BROUG H AM.—Then, my Lords, I move that the Bill be re%d a third time this day three months.—( Cries of " No, no," and laug•..ter.) The LORD CHANCELLOR.—You cannot de that. I have not yet movtd the Order of the Day for the third reading. Lord BROUGHAM.—Then I move the Order of the Day for the third reading of the Bill—the Trading Com panys Bill.. The Earl of WICKLOW.-My Lords, in all my experience I never witnessed anything so irregular as this ; I never knew an instance in all my experience of a Noble Lord moving the third reading of a measure which he means to oppose. Lord B R 0 UG H A M—My Lord, I am regular; quite regu lar, I can assure you.--(Laughter.) My Noble and Learned Friend says he won't give up the Bill, and still he has not moved the third reading ; now, as I want to proceed with it at once, and to throw it out.if I can—(Laughter) — as I h ave already b een k ep t ten da),Jonger in the House than I ex pected, and as I do not mean to stay in it ten minutes longer —( Laughter)—l will move the third reading, in order to save my Learned Friend the trouble, and get the business dis patched at once.—(lncreased laughter.) The LORD CHANCELLOR—My Lords, in order to accommodate my Noble Friend, as he appears rather anxious to quit the House, I will at once move the Order of the Day for the third reading of the Bill. Lord BROUGHAM—Then, my Lords, I move as an amendment, that the Bill be read a third time this day three months. The object of the Bill is to enable the Crown to constitute any three or twenty persons a corporation for the purpose of cal rying on a trade ; at the same time making those persons liable only to the amount they have embarked in that trade. New that, my Lords, in my opinion, gives a license to every species of fraud. The last Bid that has been intro- duced on this subject has been productive of the worst re sults, and the effect of the present measure will be to make that which was bad enough before, ten times worse.—( Cheers.) Therefore it is that I hope your Lordships will not allow this measure to be read a third time. The LORD CHANCELLOR—My Lords, the Bill of last year requires great alterations, and the object of the present measure is to supply:its omissions and defects. The Act of the last Sessi o n authorised th e C rown to sanction the incorporating associations of persons for effecting, by their joint capital, public works and . objects, but it did not com prehend companies formed prior to the Ac!. The object of the present Bill was to remedy that defect up on all companies complying with the regulations laid down by t h e A ct t h at was now in force. There is sometimes great difficulty in making Corporations pay the demands against them, because very often their property is not to be f our. d ; b y the present Bill, every person must register their sha res ; part i es, there fore, well know the extent to which they are liable, and the public will be aware of the persons with whom they have to deal. Lord BROUGHAM—My Lords, I have already stated to your Lordships the objections I entertain to this measure, and also to the Bill of last yea r . Th at measure gives to the proprietors of Trading Companies only a limited responsibility, and relaxes that care and vigilance which every partner in a concern ought . to keep o ver t h e whole of his partners. The result of which is, my Lords, th at f or want of that vigilance many a concern will be b roug h t to a stand still, and many hundreds of individuals will be ruined. Oh I but, says my Noble and Learned Friend, the names of all the shareholders must be registered. Now, I think there is very little in that. We all know the effect of great names, such as Baring, Mel lish, and others. A man, when he get a bill of theirs, does not go inquiring about their respectability, because he knows he can get the money for that bill at any time; so with respect to many of these Companies, people don't go to the Register to see who are proprietors and who are not. They see great n ames attac h ed to the Direction, in many instances without the sanction of the parties, they give them credit, they advance them money, and probably the next day they find them all in the Gazette.— ( Fleur, bear.) Now, a law on the same p r i nc i p l e h as b een tried in France, and most signally failed. It is the practice often in Companies, for some of the acting partners to fabricate accounts of fictitious property, and to make it app ear th at they are able to pay a dividend of tw en ty per cent. for the present year, and a similar dividend for the next, and so they go on till the whole capital is absorbed, while all the time there has be nothing but loss instead of profit. It is very easy, my Lords, to produce mystification and delusion by means of accounts, when persons are disposed to do so; and, therefore, it bs - xmnie, necc;aa,ry that means sh ou ld b e t a ken to prevent a sack preceLdiNgs. Under the go o d o ld s y s t e m, in case o defalcation, th e Di rectors were made to d i sgorge their pro fits if it sh ou ld b e prove d t h at they had not acte d fairly, but S tr rr ''/,,it. -,y .4'; '-' _. 1 under the new F renc h system they are allowed to .0 1 et . own accounts, to th e ru i n of the other shareh o . 4 ,. 5. ,/. -`e are not to be li a bl e b eyond the extent of 1001.. 1. ,1 N iiii4; 7- r -- I have clearly shewn, that the result of this system inNf424,3- _ .1 -- has been most mischievous, your Lordships will hesitaeft irva .; before you make it effectual in England—(Hear, hear)—:atia ' that being the object of the present Bill, that you will reject it altogether —( Hear, hear.) The measure, my Lords, was originally resorted to in a poor country, where the means were required to draw capital into trade, but that is not the case in England, for here there is too much disposition to invest capi tal in trading speculations. My Lords, it is far from my wish to check the spirit of fair speculation, but I can not but think that the present Bill, if it become law, would tend - to encourage the investment of small sums in enterprises which would neither afford benefit to those engaged in them or the community at large.—( Hear.) For these reasons I trust that your Lordships will reject the Bill. The LORD CHANCELLOR—My Lords, the observa tions of the Noble Lord may apply very well to the ordinary matters of trade, but they can have no reference at all to grrat public works. My Lords, I would ask your Lordships whe ther there are no Railway Companies and no Canal Compa nies whose Directors deal fairly with their proprietors ? The real question for your Lordships is, whether the proposed sys tem is not better for the individuals concerned and the corn munity at large, than that of placing their capital in the hands of Corporations, against whom the individual creditors could not enforce their claims? Ler d BROUGHAM—I beg to say it is not. Five hundred persons cannot form themselves into a Company —they must have an Act of Parliament, and the Act of Parliament al most always gives them a geeeral responsibility, and hardly one of them are liable. If Railway and other Companies go lon well, much of this is to be attributed to the wisdom of Par liament, and the new rules of the House, by which the merits of every private Bill are fully and accurately sifted. B. the present Bill the whole details are teken out of the hands of Parliament, and transferred to the discretion of two or three private individuals, who may perhaps be influenced by party or persoaal motives. Earl WICKLOW was certainly against the principle of the Bill, but he understood the present to be an amendment of a measure pa s:d last year. He understocod that the ef fect of throwing out the Bill would be, not to alter the system, but to leave the former measure defective. Lord BROUGHAM—That Bill is not erow acted upon at all. Earl WICKLOW—He wished also to understand how the present maxim affecied railroad subscribers? Lord BROUGHAM—It does not affect them at all ; the former measure was never carried into operation, in conse quence of the defect; which the preteat Bill proposed to remedy. Earl WICKLOW—It such was the case he certainly would feel himself warranted in giving his vote in favour of the amendment of the Noble and Learned Lord opposite. Lord BROUGHAM—No existing Railway can be af fected by the Bill. If the present measure be rejected, the Bill of last year c , nnot be carried into effect, and so much the better for the interests of the commercial world. The LORD CHANCELLOR—AIIow me to observe, that the object of this Bill is to make the former one more effective. The Noble and Learned Lord then put the question—that the Bill be now re td a third time. Lord M E LBO URN E—Content. Lord BROUGHAM—(In a much louder voice)—Not Content. The Lord CHANCE LLO R—(Doubtingly)—l think the Contents have it.—( A laugh.) Lord BROUGHAM—The Non• Contents have it.— ( Much laughter.) Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided, nhen the numbers were— Fur the third Reading, Contents " lO Against it Non-Contents ... 12 M'jority 2 The Bill was consequently lost. The Duchy of Cornwall Tin Duties Bill was reparted, with some ; mendments; after which, their Lordships adjourned. -U* CANADA. Return to an Address of the Honourable the House of Commons, dated 13th August, 1838, for Copies of an Ordinance passed by the Go. vernor and Special Council of Lower Canada, intitule:l, " An Ordi. nance to provide for the Security of the Province of Lower Canada ;" and of a Proclamation issued by the Governor of Lower Canada on the 28th June last. Colonial Department, Downing street, August 14, 1838. Erratic - 1' OF A DISPATCH FROM THE EARL OF DURHAM TO LORI) GLE. TELL, DATED CASTLE OF ST. LEW 5, QUEBEC, JUNE 29, 1838. The first step which I took on my arrival was to examine most care. fully the list of prisoners and the depositions affecting each : in so doing, I discovered that against only eight or nine there existed any evidence which would warrant the application of great severity, the chief leae:ers and instigators of the revolt having fled fiom the province and being in safety in the United States. I next applied myself, by answers to ad dresses and private applications, to the discouragement or any notion of the possibility of a general amnesty, and announced that my dctermina. tion was to punish the guilty and to extend mercy to the misguided ; for which purpose I issued a Special Commission for the trial of the pri. Boners, and sent the Attorney General with it to Montreal. These mea sures produced the salutary consequences which I expected, and, joined to other means through which they became convinced that I would not suffer the guilty to escape, induced the ringleaders to plead guilty, and throw themselves on the mercy of the Crown G. GIIEY. Yesterday I summoned a special council, a list of the members of which I enclose your Lordship, and passed an ordinance by which the prisoners who pleaded guilty are transported from the continent of Ame.. rice during her Majesty's pleasure. M. Papineau and his associates, who fled from justice, are prevented from re-enteriug the province, and the remainder are en!arged on giving security for their good conduct. I also issued a proclamation in her Majesty's name, which announces the latter act of grace at the same time with the ordinance which inflicts the punishment. These measures have met with the entire approbation of Sir John Colborne and of ;he heads cf wh. t is called the British party: they de. claret! they did not require any sanguinary punishment, but they desired security for the future, and the certainty that the returning tranquillity of the pro , i ice should ri,:t be arrested by the machinations of these raigleaders of the rebellion, either here or in the United States. This I have efF,eted for thorn to their contentment. I .;id not think it right to transport these persons to a cc.nvict colony, for two reasons : first, because it was affixing a character of moral infamy on their acts which public np,nion would not sanction; and, secondly, because I bold that it would be impolitic to force on the colony itself persons who would be looked upon in the light of political martyrs, and thus acquire, perhaps, a degree oi'influenc: which might be applied to evil uses in a community composed of such dangerous elements. On consultation, therefore, with Vice-Admiral Sir Charles Paget, I determined on sending them to Ber muda, where they could be plumd under strict restraint and surveillance. There is, however, little fear of their attempting to escape, as such an act would close at once and for ever the door against their ever re-enter ing their native country. Sir Charles Paget has ordered the Vestal to be prepared to take the pri,oners, eight in number, to Bermuda immediately on their arrival here; and I trust, therefore, that in a very few days there will not remain in confinement one single parson charged with treasonable and seditious practices in th's ptovinee. Cf cours,? Ido not refer to the murderers of Lieutenant Weir, who will be arraigned in the usual manner at the usual assizes, and whose case oug:it to be clearly excepted from the class of political offenders. [Here follows a copy of the Ordinance to provide for the security of the province of Lower Canada, and the Proclamation issued by the Earl of Durham on the 28th of June, both of which have been published in 7'he Sun.] THE CLAIM ON THE QUEEN DOW- AGER FOR POOR-RATES, This claim was to have come before the Westminster Petty Sessions yesterday morning. It appears that the parish of St. Martin had always rated Marlborough House while in the possession of Prince Leopold, and twat no objection was ever made to the payment of the rates. Upon his ascending the throne of Belgium Marlborough House re mained " void" for some time. It then, as is well known, came into the possession of the Queen Dowager, and the parish applied at the proper time for the rates. Payment was objected to, unless the parish would accept the sum claimed as a dons tion--this the parish declined. Sergeants Taddy and Mere wether were consulted, and their opinion is said to be, that the Queen Dowager, having been wife to the King of these realms, bas not so far lost her prerogative by his demise as to be liable to be rated as a subject. The parishes authorities, however, argue that the Queen Dowager must be either a Queen or a subject ; and that, in their opinion she cannot in this matter be considered other than as a subject of Queen Victoria. Thus the question rested for several days, but the parish having rea son to believe that there was no objection on the part of the Queen Dowager to pay the amount claimed, provided the point at issue was left unprejudiced, a meeting of the parochial board was held, and they came, it is stated, to a resolution to the following effect :—" That an entry shall be made in the parish books that the Queen Dowager has paid 1041. on ac count of poor-rates, but that her Majesty's name shall not be inserted in the rate-book ; this arrangement to be without rjudice to the Queen Dowager or the parish, if either party at any time think proper to assert the rights they each claim." Her Majesty, it is believed, does not object to pay, upon these terms, the sum claimed; and that it is probable that her Majesty's legal advisers will recommend her to accede to them. The parish of St. Martin made a claim somewhat similar to the above upon the Princess Augusta, in respect of apartments occupied by her in St. James's Palace. The claim was re sisted, and the parish was defea , ed, St. James's being one of ' the royal palaces. Another claim made by the authorities was to rate the grass in the G:een Park—this the)' established, the park being let out to an individual for the purpose of brazing cattle. The authorities next endeavoured to ( stablish a claim to tax the ground in the enclosure in St. James's Park, pa►t of it being let out for the grazing of shecp. This they failed in, as the profits go to the Treasuiy, through the Woods and Forests ; in the prezeding case the land is let for individual profit. y r m e p ay o be r t t o h f a t t t this DISTRESS IN SHETLAND. —11l the letter on this subject in The Sun of yesterday, the word " calculated" is by mistake Th e question td, c ,dot a .hi, i n t e, n g o Ls t oo b of e printed for " collected." The extract from the letter of the Secretary of full report Ving rare_ the London Committee to the Edinburgh Committee, on the subject of education should run thus:— " bl entertained essi ng sh should d this be cCoapo,guimfreeptrnorlise,vtetieefote, have : oialvit:oh:ei their c •e h ‘ g , e t r ih le d : cLmsni money o nac u eo s yfuu t n l give weighta ssem dun daily Press all endeavour to underrate the importance and throw n a our nd columns a geth i ' ll .f° O r tl eig r n la to st th ; great Birmingham meeting. With the exception of The hundred thousand odium un the objects of the meeting ; but the fact of itself gives importance to the " Demonstration." The immense ftb:l the:,ww e l ieiktlsi Natio : ealtlitalcekt ,tocoaffid Petition,vi,arni comprised the cboept i yu , r ,o i e n ef c nw i p ht l e wi csoho fawneßdaidntishcerarelteiesdmi, peisons. That the meeting must have great weight with the co untry, howeve r some patties may affect to d esp i se it, there can be no doubt; :Alla the peaceable, order.y, and admirable conduct of such an immense body of men, affords matter for contemplation to the statesman and phi losopher.—Brighlon Palritg.