The Sun. — London, England, 1808-05-26 00:00:00

' r • . . eent misatoiw nf COreirnereent, by I,vhieh tae whole C ol liery put in '- 0 teqUiSitiO:), tintripily showed the danger to which t hey ietegined we were exposed, The best made of Iliminishing that (anger weuld : be to graat to the Catholics the.it claims. Let thein Dave: an interest in thee. Empit-e; and Ireland would be eot'auly itivoltie;able but treossellable: For sup port of, Lii opinion, that the penal laws against Ca tholica ,Nvere ptompted by poljtical motives, and that they were jOitli. /table to correaion, he read a pas.. • so* from 'Na g el:stone, :to which that-learned writer observes, thot these lira's were atc;tunted ter by the orgency of the timei ha which the; were produced; sod that if ever a time alittold 'come at• which ell fears reletive to the Pretender Should ,ceaSe, and the le!ertT of .the Pepe. in Europe: should sink into contempt, limo the necessity ,for thiise smiles would no longer exist,,andthey ought therefore to be Abrogated.- Nor was . it fair to place . the Pro testmts 4-A . Ireland in the situation m WhiCh they wo'old L,tand, sheUld the Catholic clrith be refused, itorrootided.a:; they would be by thoseeeheSe feelings towards hem would, tit all probabilleye'tiot be ren -4.-red. mme serial by that event, For theie aiitl otherxeason:; which the iion.Gentlearati'eenmerated in the course el a very long speech; he should cer yo':e fur the me; ion. .Ler4 r.lhiened, on public grounds, to this .repeated diseteitsion ot one of the Most delicate zee: 4operrant, subje6is that Was ever submitted to the exesideration cat theLegoilature. After defend ho hi; own met'ves and prineiples, and the Motive , . Iw o le o- 1 6,4 es l ei w hi t ii hiS 'late Right flonenrable ietel ha . c.l acted - With res etq to the Catholics, be proeeded to observe, that the principle of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite 'seemed to be this--to promote -and agitate the Catholic claims when they were out of power, and to compromise and abandon them w!e.oi they were in power—Wherr his late Hight Honourable Vrieod bad failed in convincing the Catholjcs of the propriety of postponing their ' chin], the Him. Gentlemen opposite cried out for a full end complete eopce,sion ; but theonoment they got itito place, th full and complete concession dwindled into an insignificant Bill, which they at tempted to persuade the Catholics was a great boon; anti in ; a few days after, they were prepared to aban dolt oven that trilling meesore they appeared disgusted with their work, and put the Brill into their pockets. After this trertseatioo,' he could not beeedmhe the Magnanimity, he would call it, of the Hon. Gehtletnan Opposite (Mr. Winilhatil) - in comiog forward' in the way in which lie had done. For his own part, he was Convinced that every un steesessfol giseuscondiroloished the probability of success which the Catholics enjoyed, He cert a inly ho 4 been one of thou who theught, that a conces sioo,..to tile Catholics nmie immediately a f ter th e fjolon and un , ;er . Feder gotrds, would have pro duced, considerable harmony in, .kreland,' He had toCditEculty in admitting', that the language used in clioeiseing the measure AA* the' Union, freight have jet to the epe6tAion, that it was intended to make home coticession to the Irish Catholics ; but lie de niesl oiteo positively that either the Parliaeoent *or the Government of Iretend was ever pledged to such a eeneesisiori.' He also denied that if'soch a comes eioe were stew, et- St an future period made, it made on constitutional grounds *lone, etir ctruld olairned by the Catholics as a right. On tire coutrary, it ► Was a mere question of political e4cliency and liberality.. Never could the claim be urged with propriety against the ;general Pro testuta feeling, and 't hat that feeling Was strongly "" tifiressed on the present occasion lie , Was. perfettly aetisfied. He thoughto therefore, that - -the Hon. Gentleman, by whom the mallet), Was made ; would 4":10e acted more wisely if he h vip amore ad ited until aore auspicieus period, The Hon.' Gentiernan oppcisite to him (Mr. Windham) had said that opinions were daily changing. 'Certainly that Hon. Citeotlernan's Opinions, or rather, perhaps,. his declarations, were very fluattetin e Mel nothing Was. roore admirable that the persooal hrayery with which he encounter. h;sowtseriiitnois, But it would require more ingenuity even than that Mu. Gentleman possessed, coedoet to public interest. or to pub lic principle Wraotteto eeplained. . . Lord H. Perry observed, thet•it was reoem mended oh the other side 9f 'the House 'to imitate the temOrof the Right Hon. Mover of the presept • 4ueetk.-1, y bht those who proposed it to the.imitallori of others tregleded to inutete it themselves') and while, surds tit them indulged in a, it tLitn. tuatory invective, others treated time sehjea, with a Folio:Lep Ile 'es silence. ilet • upon this and:. many such like obserretioes be shogitf het•now , •dwell. He tour olliettY to advert, to in( 4ek:usation - insinuated against the litto.A.claiinivration by two of 1115 Mejes sy's preetit Ministers (Lord Castlereagh and Canniog?, . of their heynig instigated the agitation of. the Catholic quethet, though, while in power theinoliooe they rather shrunk from. brieziugat for ward, Now the troth was, that till 14104dalini.- otrat; , ..p by no to:.!..aits winneit the question ibould be marvel- Titete was nothing io make them aniitms cooceroiog it. ',L'hey tNet'e not botoid by any sort of :oefigetion to take the wetter op and bring it betbre p o riiamoot, Qn the contraly, they had specifically guarded against it. Time hnsineo was not of their. solkitv ; was the result* the -trprteeoteo 5r . :; , :4 , i serail ti;ling a the great body ofoCatheacs, them. selves. N4her was it now tinder discussion at the instigatipn of, any individual. It .was before the Vous,: in the form of a Petition ; it ins now on the 1;11)4e-exist would it be proposed to cast it from the table ? if trot; where warn the the of the arguments de.toced froth a farmer occasion ? Flis Lordship, then progeeded W state et seine length the grounds e;.lueed him to support the Petition. • , hit ,l,unti Coot HirelsteeY supported the motion. Mr. IV, tiLl.lO3, adverting to what had been said f phew pledge giveu to the Catholics of Ireland ut die time of the Union, dewed that any positive pro nein h 44 been given i but confessed at the same time that whet had beets givep to .understand, must ingenious mio4be stronger thatreoy pesttiye ' ligatiop whateoever. Under that itnpression two 1.10413 Hon, Gentlemep had•gone out of ht *e, Mr, )'io,etol 111,. CAnniog,, 434 tot whatever nature the ieree p eel mi gh t , o l eo haver been, it behoyed the wit . ditch of the House not to ref us , e golirg into use Com. illuter; although, every ! thing ihat was askea for in the Pell. too might nut be granted;JOirle u !la me dification might be devisoi, sornelpexpeeted intor. mation - might be acquired; at, least, by not 0 1 ,posing. the illation yon rnigin attrati and confirm :he con• fidence of Ireland, and by so doing lay up a consider able store of strength. • Mr. WiLel;tiror,crconld not think the present faVourable moment for agitating the clue-tion, when even these who bronghl it forward well knew - that•it `was imposirible far them to carry'it. lie did not - conceive that any advantage could result from goitlg into theCominitlee; °nitre contrary, he consichcr ed' it to be highly inexpedient ; What other etfect. could it produce belt . that of raising hopes they knew [Oust be disappointed? No good could possibly attend the prolonging of this dtscusston. could fievercontribute to heal the divisions, or.satisfy the wisliet . Of the ish Catholics. The•frish Catho. lieS were not 'acquainted with thegeneral scrateof England - and Scotland on this subjea, • They did not aeern to be aware how decided Parliament WAS against acceding to their wishes'. It Were cruel' to keep them any longer in the Jerk. It was time to speak out on this qaestion. The public mind of the Country was not made up to it. - Such were the 3entiments of the Protestants in England and Scot. land certainly in England. As so Ireland, these feelings-might in some measiire' be 'softened down,- taut still the - re would remain pointsottlitthrenee., The granting the prayer of 'the Iprcient Petition %ironic, - not satisfy 'the Catholics of lytlaud- . --they would'vvant something more." Ikefattners auct yaws werz - nvier r.:ltii;fieti by concession. - •aut:the House shOuld retied, tbatitivis no light thing •tfa make cares in great political ftindamental points, . especially when tlise changes were made hastily and • intemperately..' He wished them, therefore, to pause and weigh well what they were about:i.... As to any promise given at the Union, he thought there was none—net at least of any precise and positive nature. His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Pitt) might have harboured such expectations might have thought it easier to etfeet such things. than he afterwards found it to be. He was not sen-• sible of the ob3truction which such a plan must have met with in this country. jt was his (Mr. Waier force's) wish, therefore, the House should not go into the Committee.' It was with pain, at the haMe time, that he opposed the prayer of the Petition ? but he felt it, to v be irrecon - eilea hie with the Public safety, irreconcileable with his public duty to att otherwise. He wished to see propoied any other measure for the benttit of the Irish Catholics' t 2 4tH was not clogged with the saine invedimenis. He wished Ahem to be well educated ; he wished tta...ir moral sense to be improved. It was confessed by, some Gentlenten who spoke on this'questioii, that theirphrts of the country of Ireland were pertettly tranquil, and that they did not trouble themselves about thisl it ie s tion, It- was , only where it was Ngi tared, that disquiet •prevailed. Every place would therefare be iranritni, if it ceasod altogether to be. discUssed. Lord H. Pniry shmtlyexpioined. Mr. riCit.-0411 MititTlN spoke in favour a tho motion, Mr. G201t62 PoNsoKs7 spoke at trileh: length in suppc,irt of the inotioa. hzl6(o.l:t.t arizi 6 t l.B attentloi to th 'tpeaches OrAn tleman, but it was Dilly this night: that hti he4ri him with great pleasdre, tor bellow perfeetly• under , stood him. That HOn, Gentleman (AD. Wilher ioree)' had at last spoke oia—There. i.vas 'now no equivocation in his langeage.--Tlie Hottourse •Ic Gentleiban cold& not admit` the, tiaitni of the Csv• tholics,to the extent they seemed desirous of car- - 'tying them. He was a great friend, however, to their education ; yet, when an opportunity offered for preying that friendship, the Honour. able - Gentleman . voted for the simtlkr sum. Ife . _ was ready also to load .the' Catholics with every sort of kind epithet ; hot nothing was so. near to his charily as his fortitude., for woat hoi charity piompted him to give,' was given with a degree of coldness not easily accounted fin. Bet the ins jority Of the country, 'he says, is against the claims 'of ,the Catholics, and he therefore would no longer •hate these claims cliseossed. What would he lia%e the ' Catholics do ) Would he have them withdraw their claim's, and never' more trust then i into discussion ? But if it is ',prejodice only that is hostile to the.quespon, that would be the Strangest argument for Colitinuing the discds sion. flew had the cause of liberty ever prevailed but by the victory of reason over weiodice ? The Honourable Gentleman Ass ceruntily epoken out, What the Petition asks for, will never, he says, be granted. It is 'in vain, therefore, to discuss The only means, however, of obtaining the prayer of tires Petition is, by frequent discussion. How propose to obtain' it, e)t,cept by enlightening the._ Country respecting its nature. - But .It has been said, this is a party question. Nothing was ever said more foolishly or more absurdly. It is rriatke an instrunteot in the hands - of a party leproinota their 0 , V1) views—this chat •t still. .11.4 , -,it po;isible to believe. that such a body us the Caliefics of ir..-13titt'would withhold their. ClailllS at - ;40, will and = pleasure of any yet of men ; of any political ' party ?—.411c late Administration, against whom that imputation had been insinuated, tound it im possib:e tolteep back that discuSsion. when they Vi ere in power. If they multi not. keep it back in such a SOU - 316H, how was it to ter. , cenceixedthat they could force, it ort now ? But. th e N o bl e Lord opposite (Lord Castlereagh) was with one Admiaistrthion, .beeaose. it opproved thus measure, and with another, because it disapproved it. Thus. the Noble Lord ba l mily contrives never to be out of office. Whether the question be agitated qr not, he k sure to con tinue 'in place, Jut with regard to the. pledge so much taik a of, he never had much attended to it, opposed the Union, thinking, as Ile did, it most prove rirh4fus to both countries. lie hoWever recolleded certain h.tters, one of which wal from Lead Cornwal/is ; mother from the Noble LOrd who re presented the sentiments of the,Cahinet.on that sub- Jett. When Mr. Pitt went out of ollice,,,thes..i letters were strewn totheCatholici, in which Mr. Pitt, Lord Melville, the non. Secretary NI% canning), held out f cittertninatio never to accept of offeo again, unies the coacest.ion of the Catholic claims could be- securely stipulated. These letters they printed, published, circulated; nor have .they ever since been:contradicted, yet, now have they redeem ed their pledge ? Butoircurnstances ,have 9ot alter. .Ayes Noes Against the Acijourninent—HlBo ‘01111i..d.1,7 1 ER, Aistir. 30. TEL E S UN. ZOLIMI QV'S DlCRas trAtiUm AUDEAT L 0 N D'O IV, TIMILiDAY, MAY 26, 1808. std since the distension of 'BO5 ; 'admitting the goat change of circumstances that has since taken pla c e Ott the Continent, has not a most material change been effected in the opinions of. the Catholics ? The ° ()Tette charge against them, then was, that their Clergy were appointed by the Pope i , and that by means of that appointment principles hostile to Great Britain, , and favonrable to France, were inculcated into he,. minds of the Catho lics. . What has since, however, happened ? Instead of leaving that appointment to the Pope, have not the Catholic Clergy.. offered to leave the earninalion of their Bishops to the King. They meet when a Bishop dies, and choose three persons, .of :whom the Crown is to appoint one. Should the Crown disapprove of all the three, they proceed to chose. three others, and so on, until their choice isisuch as to meet the approbation of his Majes ty. What more is it possible for them to do, in proof of their loyalty and attachment to the CrowlL The Right Houourable Gentleman next read a part of a letter he lately received from .Mr. Plunket, who sat in the last Parliament, and who was distinguished for his knowledge and his :eloquence.. From this letter it appeared, that nine in ten of the Protestants in Ireland, including the (llergy, were in favour of , the e.laims of their Catholic fellow-subjects, and ,if that be the case, twill not the Protestants in Ireland be alloWed to , koovebest what is for their interest and safety, at least e as well as,the Protestants of Scotland and England. Mr: Yoex.e desired to be informed by the Right Hors. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Ponsonby),, whether the statement he had made of the .disposition of the Catholic Clergy,' to allow the interference of the Crown its the .appointment of their ,Bishyps, was. founded upon any public or authemicated act of the Catholic Clergy i.because it it was, flieiracquiescenee in such an arrangement would go a great way in se- moving many ,of the difficulties which he felt on this subje6t. Mr. POSiONDY explained. Lord CASTL4RRAGH and the CLIANCBLLOR of the . ExctiMUIER explained. Mr. WHITBREAD made a long, and animated speech, in support of the claims of the Petitioners, which the lateness of the hour at which,iie rose ren ders it impossible tor us to attempt to report. Mr. HUTCHINSON, at nearly five o'clock, Moved that the Debate should be adjourned to this day. The question was then loudly called for, .and a . division took place 'Upon the Motion for the Ad jeurninent : Strangles wet' not afterwards re-admitted. We understand the discussion then proceeded on the main .question.. Mr. Hutchinson and some other Metnuers having taken a share in the debate, which terminated in a division, without any repty from Grattan, for referring the Poulton to a'COinalittee Ayes Noes . - - - 28 1 • M:ijority - - -153 , iil.djourned at SIX o'Clock. Briiislt Gazette states, that the Toulon and Rochefort Squadron's have convoyed, under Russian colours, A Fleet of Transports, with , - 7000 French troops on board, front the a.tern Coast of the Adriatic to the Isle of Corfu, where the'troOps were landed. Two of the Transports, one with 200, and the otha with sio_ men, were captured by his .Majesty's Frigate Proserpine. The, Carthagena Sqqaciron continues in Tort Mahon , closely watched by our cruizeis. MILAN, Aram 3.—His Imperial Highness the Prince Viceroy, as, Litotenant 'of his Majesty the Emperor., and Kin& its. the Army of Italy, has di rected the tollowing Order to be made known to the divi , ion; of Fiench Troops quartered in the Roman Stites, and on the coasts of the, Adriatic : " His Majesty the Emperor and. King being informed that cockades of a new coiour'have been distributed at Rome and other parts of Italy, 'for the purpose of forming a point of re-union against his armies, dt a dares those who ha%e'disiributed them answerable for all the evils that may Testili, and direas the 'Ge nerd's coin:nal - Kling his troops in the Roman States,. and in the Kingdoms of Italy and Naples, imme diately to arrest them. Any ii,dividual that, after the publication . of the present Older, shall be found w:th this sign of lie-union; td*ll be tried by a' Nth. Lay Commission, and sentenced to thath."--- (Gibraltar Citionicle, May 7).. MAILS. A~eszvt*D—z Malta, r a Waterford. Dui -3 C. te4thurgli, 4 Waterliard. e 8 1 . LUND( I /4 ; Printed by of tin. 4, Mgrtlett-court, kluw.strnet ; an d patioL4,e by WILLI St ARktO Sca !PPS, S +mit Wlt-in steril e Grosvenor-sips liff At the Suip.OvPtc, No, t fr.raud; whim . ; tisemenis 6'44 tor tha "top - bait" for the "ilvf) &c, (4°4 t l fi ld ) 111464 itiittrei4ed. gency from the KiCg, his Iti.'vhew, ;11:0 hands only he would resign it ; tag. duties ofßeges:t of Spain ware incompatible with a journey to Bayonne, he should remain -Madrid,". MuaAt finding the:Prince inflexible in his doteEmi nation, ordered a bady of troops, -he had a few - days before withdrawn from Madrid, to re-enter' the city; intending, as is supposed, to seize the person, of Dols ANTONIO, and to declare himself Itegent.--. However, theioltabitants having intimation of sus picion of his design, and being alarmed by the re. turn of the French, coljetied is the street; attacked the French army with vigour and resoltitOn ; took their cannon, which they turned against them; and drove them out of the Town with great slaughter. Ten Thousand persons, at least, are supposed to hive lost their lives in this coitus. Thy French Force consisted' of 80,000, and rivulets of. blood rats through the streets. When this account came away, the greatest cod. fusion prevailed, and nothing further had transpired.. The Governor of Gibraltar received some further ae.:. counts about two hours before the Torvitshend's de• parture, Which were brought to Eoglauti by Admiral PURVIS also, 'commanding the Fleet dr Cadiz, ' f eceivekt,dispatches from that' port a fort hours previous to the Towns/6nd falling in with lag, which were likewise transmitted by her. The con' tents of both were a profound secret, though rod , [poured to relate to their Fleets, Admiral Punt last Fleet was in high' spirits, and in hourly, expectation of bging called in to take possession of the Spanish Fleet, Sza. April 22 I the Townshend fell in with Lord CoLLlNcwoun's Fleet, consisting of 1 G Sail of the Line, off 111.tretitno. On Saturday last saw a . Ficat of about go Sail, supposed to be the Brazil Convoy ; €(11 May, Ili% Majesty's Ship Redwing, Capt. Ustica, ttzrived at' Gibraltar with considerable dain.l,; - e, which she SUP ' tained in an action on. tins same day, wit!. a 1.44, Spanish Convoy sbe fell in with off Tarda, bound from Mgesiras to Cadiz, and which lett the forinel Port on the tith. The less on board the RCJWing was one man killed and three Wounded maatirdisable4 several shuts through the hull. The wind bn ing very light, and the Eneiny on their sweeps) • the Itledwini 'could not close nearer than into/W.*. shot, before 'they tacked into 'shoal water. Thelt first determination was to board; but . fetching point-blank-shot their confidence.; fori . Ook. 2 them. The convoy consisted of the following, viz. El Dettite:ite, of 4 guns 24(1 6a rnitiS,su nk ; EI MOO, 4 4!: 4 Pins 194 6otacti, Yw.k i hr. t, v 1 3 guNi , and 4 46 LOW suidc . ; Nib . 6, at via and 40 men , ; Igo; u) guns awl 33 ;ten, cv:ipc,t ; Mlstic.), of , giiht-aret z t i kc o ) .; Fehm,a l ut 4 guns :etstl 20 alt:1), estate J; stem.46lltantlnell Liken mitt C4t:apCd. A very long and iniere'sting Debate took place List night in the House of Commons, upon the Cathd,!c Question, -- and the Mi)tion 'of Mr. Gil ATTA N w2s re' jetted by such a I.irge Majority, litat we are inchliod to hope t•bia - the subject . 'will not be again :igicalei• The number's w e re for the Motion . 128-Ag:lin' t it Yesterday his MA.ritSTY held a Private Levee °1 Buckingham House, which was attril k ied by all I Mtuisters and ()dicers of State. Mr. ADAIR presented on his return froin.V . Lima, is ‘Verr severP Officers on their promotion's.' His MAJESTY held a Pt ivy Council, at CANIDtiN .vas Sworts in Lord LlcUtenatit of Kent. LA . Yesterday a Court of Directors % vas held " 3 : East India House, whet) Cap:ititi JAMZION " yr " , into the co ittnand of tine Snip (..;cia'al Stuart, cite' sighed to Madras Bengal. Toe court adjouto4l", at Nix o'cl,ek. till Wednesday next'. The Frani:is Frerling Packet will sail from Fat! Mouth the' fit-st favouraole wind for the West 11)&0, Early on Sunday morning the 'hninte uf S)r ` 1 ; cary Gihtis,,,at Hayes, in Kent, w.t's robivti 1011..ying extrdrdinary manner M.si daughter ot• Sir Vicary, awoke in the morning, s'iw discovered..tha't all her c loath s Were taken awllYt. 4 ilia alit Ott' her bed, and every thing I,hat was % , 1 10 " d 4 in the. room that could reineved was stoloit gi% tug the alarm), and ex;tinating the preall'io , discovered that the .rooters had, by tyini; of dies together, made a ladder, ascetided to titc" tap coLOade which goes round the house, CaS:VICCeSS to ..MiS3 G.'s rc.;o:n, she having Jett ht` dam open,' and tn.tde oft' with the property W ilhol " wakiug her. A large sue:: was left upon the bad. A, „hip' YA RltOtrilti, MAT 25 .-- I --Arri !led from o ff' '-' .. , , his Najt;sty'!;Ships Edgar, Brunswick,ancill i roinp ei "‘ left cruizing there the,Tigre and Bellerophon. d r a- Arrived L.slimalle Frig:tie from a cruizo, and le. mains with' the Nassau, M utely, &thick, end 6 ' rat small Cruizers. ' il I ' DEAL, MAY . gs. Sh Arrived His Majesty' s ,vi, Bellerophon from the westwar d, an d La Thrice,A' . , - minim, and Triumph from off Flushing. hriol , Our Letter from Plymouth contains the following Sailed the Shurphooter and liesotute Gun . ' l o t details of the Intelligence brought by the Townsheml With a Fleet `ot Transports, &e. under convO Portsmouth, Packet : Arrived, and sailed for the River, the "inn, ''''''' Go 14 Ed inst. General MtrgAZ (Grand Duke of from St. Dothingo. • y'l Bail) entered Madrid, and intimated to the Infant, . POCTSM.:UTIA, MAY . UO4 i‘NIONIO 2 the necessity of his presence at the ' Confelatic;ett about to be held at Bayonne between • Furious with a Fleet of Traports, Etc. for GLl,e . f`', s ,;',. SnamtEas, MAY 24. ,Arrived his AiliJ k , dy . Ship La Eirclie with a jo s r7oy Sa f il o e r d Cforil,lrie)::. BUONAPARTB and the King; and that it was aped- ' Ship .1 / a /gbEir';' of 50 gun. iimominee, j th il 1 ift#" . ) ed that he would issue a Proclamation declaring him inion, 40, and'aiggressor Gun-brig, Captilins'`liiii , Li.vIINUSTOt4II, CAPEL, and Lieut. WATIoN• , eI (MURAT) Regent during his absence. To this the ,' INFANT answered , " Plhat he Lad received the Re. wicSlaji,i.eadhdli;Are-Ealnadiy.arrniaoindtotheehat.hriaarn747ol°_l;:c6ce''l.