The Sun. — London, England, 1810-05-31 00:00:00

1 froni his Noble Friend; but he was anxious to hear a More distin& explAiiiition of the address. The Earl of LIVERi'OOL, in explanation, said - that -the Address pledged no Noble Lord to - any particu lar measure, while at the same time it was to be 'understood, that Ministers, under their responsi ility, should have it at their discretion to ,avail 'themselves of the Vote of Credit in furtherance of any measure which might be suggested . by any oc casion that might-arise, of furthering the common cause._ After a few words from Lord SUFFOLK and Loud MELLVILLE -the Address was agreed to, nern. dis- Sentiente. SCOTCH lUDICATURE. arl STANHOPE, aftef making several pointed , re inarks on the report which the Commissioners have Made on the subje6l of this Bill, in which they seemed widely to differ from one another, thought it incumbent on him to move, that they be called upon to, deliver in the reasons upon which they grounded their respettive dliferences of opinion. The Ea!l of Li%erpool and the Lord Chancellor 11104,11 f the subject of too much imPortance to be discussed without a formal notice and. in so thin an i 3 ten dance, and suggested the propriety of with drawing the notice for the present. Lord STANHUPE letiuiesced in the suggestion, and gave notice that he .should make a : motion - to the same effect on Friday next, for which day their Lordships were ordered to be summoned.— . Adjourned... HOUSE OF COMMONS, WEDNESDAY, IdAY 30-; Mr. INIARIUYATT presented a Petition from the tnderwriters Lloyrel's, and the Merchants and Tradesmen of ihe City . of LOndon, against the Marine Insurance was ordered to lie on the table. Col. Aer..4:l presented a Petition from the 'iTown of Berwick-upon,Tweed, praying for Reform in Parliament, and a definition of its Privileges.--Or ilered to lie on the table. Mr. &mu presented a Petition from the County of the Town of Nottingham—it did 'not advert to any of the late proceectings, but simply prayed for a fair and equal' Representation of the Pedple.---Or dered to lie on the table. Mr. MANNING presented a Petition. from% the- Merchants, &c. of the Cityof London, prayingthat . .&he British LaWs may be extended to the Island of Trinidad.—Ordered to lie on the table. The Bastard Child Bill, and the Black Game Bill, Went through Committees, the reports of. which Were ordered to be received to-morrow. MAJOR CARTWRIGHT'S PETITION. Mr.WurretteAn held - in his hand a Petition from Major Cartwright, which had been some .time be fore rejeded on the eround of 01W lenience in it, applying in an insulting manner to an aEt of the House ; that sentence was now altered in such a manner,_ as to prove that it formerly applied merely to the 'ea of the Serjeant at Arms; in this fortn' he now presented it. The part of the Petition al luded to was then read by the Clerk ; atter whicji it was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. WHARTON moved that there should be laid before the House, accounts of the impor tation and exportation of Bar Iron in Great. Britain ; which accounts, pursuant .to order, he then brought up.—They were ordered to lie on the table. On the motion of• Mr.-Wharton, the following ' Bills were read a third time and passed. The Judge Advocate's Flanking Bill. 'lle Malt Regulation Bill. The British Fishery Bill, and the Flax Bounty Bill. IRISH INSURRECTION ACT, &c. Mr. 'WELLESLEY POLE said, that he rose in con- 1 sequence of the niaticehe had given on Monday, to move for leave to bring ini a Bill to repeal the Irish Insurretlion A&. The House- would recolle& that - that Aa was brought in soon. after 11te, Duke of Richmond was appointed Lord Lieutenant cif Ire land, in the year 1807, 'and was only a continuation 111 of the.Aa of 1797, with certain modifications. It wasstated, when the A& 0f,1807 was brought in, that such had been the state bf Ireland during the Lord Lieutenancy of the. Duke of Bedford, that the Gdvernment of that.. day did not think they would be justified in undertaking to secure the tranquility of that country, ..unless they were armed with the powers of the Insurreaion Bill ;:and that according ly a Bill was prepared, though not 'brought into Parliament before his b'race went out of office. [Mr. Ponsonby said across the table, that the Right. Honourable Gentleman was not correct.] Mr. Pole said, that he might be mistaken, but he under Stood that when the Duke of Richmond succeeded to the office of Lord Lieut. Lord "Wellington 'found s the Bill already framed in the office by the former Govern ment: But however, that faet may be, he only meant to say, that from • the period of 1796, when the Bill was originally passed, to• 1807, when the Al now in existence, which was brought in to con tinue it, the different Governments of Ireland • felt that they could insere the tranquility - of that Country without having in their handS such a dor mant power as this Bill afforded. Those Govern 'nrents, in his opinion, aaed wisely, because, under the circumstances of the times, it was necessary that they should be vested with such a power in case of any great emergency' But he thought it'right. to • . state, • that so anxious were all the Governments of Ireland to give the people all the benefit of the Con stitution, that. from the time of Lord Hardwicke's Lord 'Lieutenancy to the present moment, this Bill had never been resorted to. During Lord Hard . - wicke's Government it had been put in force in one .or two instances, but not-once during the Govern ments of the Dukes of Bedford and Richmond. He did not mean . to say that because the A& had not peen enforced, it was not necessary that it should • have remained upon the Statute Book, for the vcry Circutnstaneeof its being there was perhaps the cause of the degree of tranquility that prevailed ; but dur ing the period to which he had alluded it had been found necessary to app , iint Special Commissioners, in consequence of temporary disturbances. He also thought it necessary to state, that instances had oe curied during the period alluded tu, in which 'appli cations had . been"made by several .lelitlemen to put the Aa in force, and to proclaim it in ditferent parts of the country in which disturbances hod prevailed ,• but Government had always resisted Wok- applica= tions; they had caused iovestig4tiohs to be tuad, and had found that they could restore public traria -quility without having recourse to this Act. - The AO ,now in existence was passed, as he had--already stated, in 1807, and would expire, at the close of the present. Session of Parliament,it therefore be came the duty of tire Irish Government to investi gate the state of the country, in order to ascertain whether they could, with a due regard to the pnb lic safety, and with justice to the loyal and well dis; posed people of Ireland, determine out to renew the Aa. - He felt the Most sincere pleasure in stating that the Government of Ireland, after the fullest consideration they could give the subjea, had felt themselves justified in coining to the conclusion, that the continuance of the oka was not, under the pre sent circumstances, necessary. Many representa tions had certainly been made to the Irish Govern ment upon this subjea from loyal and well dis pcsed oersoosO who thought it was running a great risque to repeal this ad,' but he thought that the Go vernment havitmg,'upon due consideration, -come to the conclusion, which he had mentioned, they ought not to shrink 'from the responsdaility that would ne ce,sarily belong 'to them for carrying that resolution into effect. Nothing' certainly but time most urgent necessity could justify the . enaating suoli a law, but that that necessity had 'existed, experience had' fully manifested. He was happy however to state that such was the tranquility . which prevailed in Ire land, and such wis :the improvememit in civii!zal ion 'Which had taken plkee, 1110. the ,Gov , .;-nruent felt that it could proceed.. on safely withoa• the Con tinuance of thislaW: No - lover of the Constitution' could wish to see'suclo a law porno the Statete-book, unless the circumstances of the times rendered it inciispeusably necessary. 'The Aet in question, how ever, in addition to tiotm part. of 11 which might 'properly becalled the Itisurrettion Ad, contained some prov:Sions to w.hic/i he begged to call the at tention of the House, because, in ,h;s opinion,, it would be proper to re-:enact them., The provisions to which he alluded, and:which he thought ought to be made perrnanenti. were those which punished the taking and administering of unlawful oaths, aod, which were consonant to time A. a of thq 37th of the; King, in this country; they made the administering or taking of unlawful oathS- a felony, punishable with transportation, unless, in the latter case, the person took the oath ignorantly. There'were other pro visions in this Act (Which perhaps ought to have formed a separate Aa) for protecting witnesses and magistrates : they eniaed that it any person gave tit - 0=360n; and should be murdered before the trial came on, that the information should be, receiv ed 'as evidence, on the trial, or if, a person so giving information, was secreted before the trial, and kept out of the way, and it should appear upon. in quiry that he . was secreted by the person accused, then that his information might be usod in the same Way. They also gave powers to the Grand Juries to o levy a sum of money, to be paid to the representa•O tines of any witness or magistrate - murdered under these circumstances. He , hoped there would be no ohjeation to the re-enaament of those provisions in the Bill which- lie proposed.to bring in. There w.is another At which was brought in at the same time with the present Insurrection A&, and which had caused much discussion 'in that House; he meant what was called the Aims At. He believed-that every Gentleman would admit that the provisions for registering of arms should not be given up, and that time power of searching for arms should exist sinnewhere.- Bur the Ad, as it at present stod, was liable to great objeaions, which he propos ed to obviate: By the Act as it now stood any two Magistrates might upon suspicion .Se3teiii the house of any individcal for arms at any hour, and one Magistrate might upon information, search in the same manner, or delegate a power to another person to make the search It appeared to hint that this -act might be so modified as to remove these ohjeations, and to prevent s its trenching upon the liberty of time subjea more than the abso lute necessity of time case required. .He shialld pro pose that Imo Magistrate or number of i\lzgistrates, should have time power to search except upon infor— mation on oath, or that' they had such ground Of suspicion as might make it desirable to seitrch a dis triet for arms, and that in that case they Should send their information to Government; in order that it might determine whether the search shoiald be made or not. If Government *should determine that a search ought to be made, then he should propoae .that a warrant should be sent by the Lord Lieute nant authorising and directing such st-arch. This provision would, in his opinion, be suffiOent to guard the subjea from any wanton exercise of authority. He was afraid, however, that one groat objection would be made to it, viz. that by the delay which it would occasion, the opportunity of ply:venting the mischief might be lost. He did not, hOwever, think that the, delay wouldbe so great as to pt event a suf 7 fiCient - search from being made, and he trusted that the law was not so weak that could rertmedy,any evil that might restmlohorn the adoption of the measure_ which he should propose. He Was convinced that the advantages which would result from 'sheaving the people that Government determined to give them as much liberty as possible, consistently with these precautions, which Were necessary for the geneial safety,would more than counter=balance any evil that might result-from this provision. Timentt was another part of the Insurree.ion At which he proposed to alter,,by that Act as it now stood;. if arty person cons ceiving himself injured by the aEt of a Magistrate should apply to the law for redress, and time jury should give a v-erdi& in favour, the ;fudge had the power of declaring (if the faas of the-case appeared to him to warrant'him in, so doing), that the. Magis trate had a justifiable cause for who t he had done, and in that case the person suing, although the ,fury had found in his favour, was . only entitled to six pence dam Iges, and no costs. But if the jury found in favour of the Magistrate he was entitled to treble costs. This clause was he had no doubt very neces sary when it was enacted, but the tmecerssity of it did not appear to him any longer to exist, he should pro pose to repeal it and ih future to 'place both parties oii an equal footing. Inthe present improved stale of the country lie did not think it required such strciag measures for the proteaion,,of Magistrthes.— It not appear to him nece,so.ry to occupy any more 'of the time of the Hause ot,,present,' but he vois ready - to give any explanation which Gentle men might require. - He-should therefore sit clown, declaring that he never-in his felt more pleasure that) whet] - he had an opportunity of making up his mind under the.mild and beneficent directions of the . , . , . . . ~ . . . Duke Of Tliehmond, to relieve the people c frel4nd from the InsurreetiOn Law, even though that Law had not M any recent period been carried into exe cution. Icir. Pole then moved for leave to bring in the Mils. Mr. HUTCHINSON took the opportunity of .thank ing the Right Hon. Gentlernan and the Government of Ireland, for _their measure, which was founded in wisdom ; he hailed with joy the spirit of putting reliance in the people, and of treating them with candour ; be was sure the House would feel the .greatest gratification at the various statements which hid. been made. Mr. PONSONRY believed.that the Bill itself W - ould expire this Session, so the Hon. Gentleman's mo tion was but an anticipation of this event. With vspeal to his statements of the Duke of Bedford's Government, he was perfectly mistaken. Mr. M. FrfZGER ALD gave his hearty concurrence to the motion of the Right Hon. Gentleman; but he wished to know whether the Atis which he proposed to bring in were to be permanent. Mr. W. Pore replied, that - lie meant to propose the Bill for altering the Arms Ad should continue only for two years, and the other to be permanent. Sir J. NBWPORT . congratulat . ed • the .House and this country. on the present state of Ireland ; he - was sorry these measures were not 'resorted to t!efore, as Ireland deserves all the benefits which British , laws and the British Constitution Zan hestoW„ Leave was then granted to bring in he Bills which were brought np by Mr. W. Pole.—They were read a first time, and ordered to be readd-a second time to-morrow. •. _ _ _ A Message from the Lirrds announced their assent, to the Oil of Vitricl Bill, and the Itish Infirmary Bill, and the Irish Wareb(!using Bi!liwithout any amendment—The. Surveyor Generors Bill, with amend , lients. - • Mr; M. FITZGERALD obtained leave to brina p in a Bill for amending so much of the 6. h Aet of hiS present Majesty as relates to the planting of timber trees in Ireland. Oti the motion of Mr. FOSTER, the House went into a Committee to consider the coirtrad - between Lord Ormond. tind the Irish Government. It was resolve(' that — the House_ should be moved for leave to bring in a Bill to confirm . the said contra&. The House resumed, upon which Mr. _LUSHINGTON, after a few observations from Sir J. NEwpoET ob- tained leave. • COMMITTEE OF WAYS'AND MEANS. IRISH BUD'GF.T. The House resolved into . Committee of -Ways and•Meaas, Mr. LUSIIINGTON in the Chair. Mr. FOSTER I rase and said, that it was his duty on that day to submit to the consideration of, the Com mittee the amount of the suepl:es voted, and the Ways and Means he proposed to recommend for the service of the- present year Ireland. In doing thil, it %mild be necessary :for him to state the situation of the. finances of Ireland. The Right Bon. Gent. then detailed the various charges . affeEting the Con.; solidated Fund, the surplus of which he intimated at 1,478,0001. and added that only 31 1,0001. of that surplus remained applicable to the service of the' pre4 sent year. The total charge, including interest. and sinking fund, on the poi)liC debt in Ireland, amounied . to 3;974;0001.: the two seventeenths of the joint charge of Great Britain and Ireland were 6,, I 0f3,0001. British, or 6,614,0001. Irish currency, and the Trea sury Bills to be provided for amounted' to 541,0001: making in the whole-a total of 41,129 ) 0001. to be provided for. To supply this -sum; he should take the revenue of Ireland at five 'millions. This was a large Sum ; but when he considered that the revenue of Ire land had increased half a million last year, he felt justified in taking it at that amount: If to this sum were added the two loans which had been contraoed for h - ere for the service of Ireland, they would give a total of, 11,660:0001. which would afford an excess of supply over the amount of the charge of 51;0001. The Honourable Gentleman then begged to call the attention of the Committee to the state of Ireland with respeEt to its finances. He admitted that it would be desirable, if praetitable, to raise as .much of the supplieS as possible ithin the year :. but as Ireland had but small capital, and - was increasing in her mann fadures, such a measure might have the-effect of repressing the spirit which led to the im provemeet and growing progress or. manufactures in Ireland. The Committee would therefore agree with him, that it would be desirable to resort to the mode of meeting the supply by loans,' and pro r viding by tuxes for the interest and sinking-fund only. The sum necessary to be provided' in the present year was 3,331,0001. It was with great sails fiCtion he had to state, that though the charge upon the revenue had increased, yet - the revenue had in creased in a higher proportion, The excess of the debt in the present year over its amount in 'lBO2, was less in proportion than the excess of the xevenue at present over the amount of the revenue in the year 1802. The sinking fund, too, which, at its first esta blishment in 1797, was only one-hundredth part of the debt, was at present one-seven part of it. Besides, .there was no unfunded debt, with the exception of 114,0001. treasury bills, which accompanied ' the loan this year. The exports and imports, if they had not increased, had certainly not in any _consider able degree decreased. The exporlof linen had de e creased 400,0001. but that defiwiency had been made , tip for by an ,increase upon different other articles. Hides and skinS, and linen, and. worsted yard hadde creased in the exports, which was , a proof of the in creasing prosperity of the country, 'when the Y aw materials were kept to be inanufaEtured in the country. The.export of corn had never been so large as last year; and the quantity of ground tilled thisyear afforded, in the event of a favourable"season, a prospect of an abundant crop, a source of wealth to that country, and a necessary supply to this. In ad verting to the state of the Trade - of Ireland, he had only stated the mere official value. The real value of the exports would chew it in a much more satis fat:tory light. -The real value Of the exports in 1800 was five millions; iii 1802, a year. of peace, eight millions' and a quarter, and on the average of 1808 and 1809, twelve millions: The'real value of 131-i -tish Exports'in the same years were, in 1800, forty ; in I 802, forty-eight millions ; and in 1809, forty-five millions, being an increase of one ninth only,whilst the exports of Ireland ead increased full 7- laths ; so that there could be no grounds for de spoadence. He had next to submit to the Committee, the Ways and Means by which he proposed to pro .4 t vide for the charge of the Loan of the present yell'. which, including Managethent, interest and sinktog fund, was but 51. 13s. 3a. per-cent. and amounted in the whole to 331,2691. He proposed to late the Revenue of the Post-Office of Ireland to that of Great Britain, by adding one penny to the . postage of every letter, Which he estiMated woold produce 35,0001. The duties on iea he meant tv raie to the 'Sanie amount _a* they existed 'in this country, with the exception of a smal per-cenOgek suppoic 3 per-cent,' to indemnity ,the Iri,li tor . the expence of coining to London tlict - teas. This ,, with an addition tie proposed on cUrrants and raisins imported into Ireland would 'produce 70,000 • He intended to raise the stamp duties on . receipt s in Ireland to the same amount as in this countrYt and the duty wadveriisements, which in this contr. 'try was three .shillings and, in Ireland but one, M proposed to raise to two, which he eapecied to prw . ,. duce 30,0Q01. The duties on wines he meant to crease by adding riche guineas per ton WI port ang :Spanish wines, and. I guineas per ton on Frenc. l2 . wines.• A f,ruinea a ton would be just one penny a g4 l- : lon, and' t g. guineas per ion would only he t 2 pence a gallon, or. three pence a bottle this addition would produce 1 "00,0001. .The neat item he had to pro pose would be matter of regulation relative to storage. (tom which he expeded 18,0001. He bad only it' ..at:d one other augmentation of an existing tax to p'-i t the House in ,possession of the whole of •the B .N . ISYI and Means he had. to propose ; and that was to add 50 per cent. to the window-tax in Ireland. Housc s. having less than seven window's were exempt Iro' the duty ; and as even with the additionthe tai wOuld be less than %lips now_paid in Scotland, was convinced that.no-Gentlemtn - cOuld object to it. This he should take at 85;00ol. being rather le 4 than one-halt of the. present produce of the The general result xould tie, as the .ComindteG, would preeive, that .the Ways and Means he 1) 01 staved, viz. . Post Office - ,C3b°G Tex and Currants - - Stinnps - • 30,,00 Wines - - iuu,Quo kegulation'Of StJr.:s - - - 15.u0u 'Windcm Tax Would giv'e a. total of - - ,C 33 ,000 Leaving an excess above the charge to: the Loan. He shou;cl taut trespass further on the tithe of the C0_1 73 :" tnittte, but move his Resoltiti,nis. • .Sir JOHN NEWPORT . , before 'entering upon the consideration of the new taxes, called the attentio o of• the House to the circumstances "of Inland , • compared with former periods:.i Hd did order that- they might not. be deluded into s , .ft - d t ; ception ; but, being awate of the awaited_thern, prepare to face them f isty, befoC-je they were obliged to call y ou the , people of Irehr f or England to extricate; them, by, the imposition most grievous burthens. In Taking this colvil rison, he objeEled to takinthe period of tic Ijo i " 1 1 as. a .fit criterion. The country lod then etne;g.(l out of' the rebellion of 1 798, which had o nscui e( the'minds of men, and their .and 4 0 .1 - ) . e coerce under , great temporary di•iodvantages. fairer way was therefore to go to an ane;t,• r)r "" • .)Lt of tranquility, and' he would therefore ass nine t'', 79 year 14, as. one of peace, and iminediatciv be tcr ' ' • ,the breaking out of the French Revolution. the corripariwit With this year, lie would s hew 0 • 0 pr ! )giess Ireland had a.,tna - ily, made, and rt4bo t t,State.trian:. rpght, Iranted in looking to for the public ser+ ice. In lit', the debt of Ireland was 1,642,84 - 01; of whfob interest, 114,0001. was all paio in the Countxy• 1800, the debt had risen to 23, I 00,0001.—in t '' re :f 1,238,0001. of which 500 , 0001 . was paid 011,A-4 Ireland. And in 1810, January last, the debt iff,ooo,oool. and the interest 3, 040 , 0001. oilt•,',l which natuly2,soo,oool. was paid in Great 13051n-0, In 180o,tho income was 2,760,0001. in 1-B ,te 4,417,0001. and in 1810, 4,280,0001. . 'rhos Was no proportion between the; increase of de l 1 1 e 3 revenue. :The deficiency of the latter he in a great measure to the immense' surns,expo'`,: in the management of public money. In ge`'el•-,:i the more the revenue increased, the prop orli lre the ,charges of management was less ; but i' ) t be land,, the reverse was the case, and the grcate r ; es revenue became, the more in proportion the char,l,4 augmented. They were now as five to t of 1' 4) 09 they were in 1800. The surplusses in.the years would still more illustrate the state 01 1' iD country. In 1800, the soul - us was 1,500, 41-01/ A 1807, 765,0001.; in 1808, 1,017,0001. 311-00 1810, only 338,0001. Going on in this woPocuo, if the taxes were as productive as tire` 111;b L ,erY Gentleman supposed, but of which he wa s , of doubtful, as some of them, particularly 11134" de wine, had beenlried and *failed in 1805, i ll ' th d creased revenue, they would , shottly come t() crisis, with observing upon which he. had .biit',,og c fel :what he had to offer on this occasion. Wl L " c e,or sped to the exports, he also objected to - 1800 as a criterion, as in that year, fron l l ''' . le? pression already noticed, they were one than , in 1792. In 1792, they Were 5,817,00,4 in 1.800, only 4 million odds ; and in I more thin 400,6001.-abOve what they were. irt Thus standing matters, he cou'd enter inurri°C.4, putation of Heal.., value; put on by the 195i'eLeC• General. ' When in (Alice, he had fregoentlY 1 11 , different opinions from him, and totted tu"1101 judgment was not t) be ialien a Bard. As - for taking the Dublin Fix ports as f i r terion, that seas as absufd as it would be to I ' London price of corn as the general standard wrof,;: exportation o: that artic:e through ou t the e° (3l ,v, He begged 'not to be misundel stood on Ib' s he considered Ireland as productive, beyood t he ; o o o' •sanguitie hopes that/could be formed. Xi " 'l6o ' dered her to be rapidly increasing in internal cu Lion, in trade, in enterprise,. and c itutnerce ; 1 11 6 sotnuch, that he looked to iter; in futa,ilf, tll,i nisterteg tv the wants of this c abundance of her produce. He had recut -01 : i ,, i" tile. measure of permitting the colsting " corn, between the two countries ; awd ot. e r P s t had proved that it wls founded in wisdom year, the eNpott of Ireland, indepe dent oi or grain, was, in oats alone, 782,000 qu:u ter', v rc 4 tt' e! times i!.e in - 110nm of what it was in-the yea '-' l O 4 Ike tl. uus removing the barn 1805. , t' n this would' Mac.: the Holige :.:row £0 n ' it, 4 remaining impedi;ixitts, bc.l",make tbe P 0 , ` the t v o countries as oa depot, " it er species mercliah diZe, for the ;, united .11-11)•