The Sun. — London, England, 1808-01-23 00:00:00

.AMP ER . L► PAR.!, LIMENT. NOUSE OF C0.471110N5. POW Y, JAti;''' 22. Sir FnANcts Burtnurr took the oaths and his seat. New Writs were ordered' for the Boroughs .of Castle Rising, Tregony, Tiverton, and Yarmouth,' in the ioom of the Hon. C. ',Ascetics, Mr. B. Went worth,,the Hon. Richard Ryder, and Mr. Jervoise C. Jervoise • the two former of whom h a d accepte d . the Stewardship of Chiltern Hundreds ; Mr. Ryder the place of Conuniisioner of the Treasury ; and the latter deceased. Mr. GRANT, from the Commissioners of Military Inquiry, presented their Fifth Report,--Ordered to lie on the table. The usual Standing Orders of the House were re-, viiett,' and the Committee of Trade, 'Religion, Pri vileges, and, other Standing Cotninittees, were order ed to sit the usual days. The Committee on Expiring! Laws was re-ap pointed.: • The ditTerent Orders tespe.aing Contested Elec tions, and Petitions complaining of. Undue Eleaions and RetUrns ' were revived. Renewed Petitions' were presented, complaining of the Returns .for the folloing places, 4,111.1 tiered to be taken into consideration on thwilays . annexed Banbury and Saltash, Tuesday, February 2. Chippenham, Thursday, February 4. &hash, on the' Right of Voting, and Horsham, Tuesday, February .10; veS h a ni, Thu rid osi; February 11. County of Sussex aud Dublin University, Tues. inv, February 16. "Renfrewshire and 'Nottingham, 'flier die, Fe bruary 18. • Penrhy . LI; Tuesda; Feb. The CILANCIMi.QICof tire Exclic4uett had pro- , posed that no more than three Petititiens should be. 'taken into eensideration in any of the . early weeks, 91 the Seisien,.in Order that the attenditnce Might . ;be as Jight on Gentled en as the. convenience of the public busieess would admit. There we're but two-thirds of the' muither of Petitions that bad been disposed' of in a frivoler SesSion;,,and by the arrange 'meet he proposed the, Whole Would. be easily got through in the COUI3O of the present. Session. , Mr. SWAN gave notieethat dd. Monday'next he ebould,move ,to put Oil the consideration of the „ycorbyp Petition ; as did .Mr.: W. DUNDAS, that be would move to put off the consideration of 'the' Itenfrewshire Petition to the, 2-I , th of March. Lord Fot.k - siVen gave notice, that on this day foriniglit'hOishould Make a motion tar fixing n day for taking into consideration the Oude , Papers which Aid been presented List Session. Mr. BANIUSS gave, notice, that on Monday next, lie should move . for leave to bring in,a Bill to pre vent the .Grain ol Places in Reversion..• Mr. G. Po&sortai gave notice, 'that on Mouthy he'nnight he should more for certain Papers touch,. jug the Expedition to Conenhagen. Mr.' Hoe Nett ;gave notice, that an Tuesday next Le s hould move for Copies of Licences, which had teen granted fir trade Otherwise contrary to law. • The CIIANr.,'ELLOR of the . EXCIIIiQULIt. observed, that the, House had derived much convenience from the limitation VOijcif it 'fitted last SeSsion to the :time for receiving Private Petitions, )11115 thereat, as also for receiving Reports of such Bills. He therefore proposed, that regu lation sheultl be made in the present Session. it was then ordered, en the Motion o the CHAN• Cement of the Excueutme, that no 'Private Petitiqn should be received after!the 26th of February, that rio Bill should be brought in thereon after the ,28th olMareh, acrd that no• it4ort of such Bill should be received after the t 6th et.. May. • 'Mr..Wne ,t rneen. wished to know on what day it waslikely that the Official .Notes,ailiided 'to in the Speech teem theqhrone,,wenld be presented. The cHANCSIZOR 011 the EXcilltfaUtlt replied, ,that these Atperc moll!, he expe4led,. be presented ou an early day next week. • RAN.) tteT 0011 E ADDRESS. Lord HAMILTON • brought up the Report et' . the Address to 44 Majesty ; and; on the 'question,' thatithe Report be now received, Mr...II4‘DONALD said, that' be could not suffer that last stage of the Address to •pai without re cording laic dissent from its substance. Ile could .pot express approbation of the Expedition to Copete• hagen, because no grounds. had been laid before the 'House to justify A Gentlethan had said yester day, that ' the eyOtrof Europe were: upon the British Parliament, and it would be surprisi ng , t h ere f ore, if iwfirif aa,lOy coming,to a blind dei sioti upon this question, 'should ha such as to disgrace it.. Theiv was not tithe, eMitencted,between the freaty of w hick had been , concluded on the 7th of July, r ftiv i tit., sailing, of . A:dmiral Mi ;Lisle:l.i to hate rueived inteltigence. of theeuga,,e „, limas entered into at that Tteaty. Inc arrnamenti amt . stores colleacd at Copenhagen, theretorcovere itotprovided in conseenence of, such engagements. )finisters ought to produce to the House the infor mation upon which they Inul acted ; they had -received it front any of our Ministers with the. Nort hern Courts, : these Gentletnen were now it, safety.— He regretted that the Speech had'oot • held out: any prospect of peace ; .and he thought it inconsistent that Minititers should adhere to terms which 04- 4truded peace, whilst they rejeeled all . fornis iii their attack Aipon a Neutral Nation. 111 x. FULLER approved of the attack upon Co- . penhagen ; and if they had adopted the sante course with respe4 to the Fle.et of Spain,. they would nel'er ban had to fight the battle of Trafalgar, which cost Lord Nelson his life, No man Would assert that the French could 'not have broken in upore the Danes, slid tamed them to join against this Country. He did not blame Ministers for their attack upon Cd tenhagen, but that they had, not gone liar-enough,y treating all the parties to the Treaty. of Tilsit in the sane nraiitier. lie did not approve at the line, of blisertiation adopted, when Gentlemen said, that they did not believe what Ministers said, but gave credit to every • thing urged against t his Cilvititry by the Crown or Hall-crown Princes of the Continent. lie confided lia the present - Government, and he united that they moditt go on doing their duty, rotwitlettanding tbo . accusatims of th e net opposite. Mr."111B.1141iT contended, that as the from Yorkshire had not proceeded from any party feelings, it was the more entitled to 'attention.' Mi., nisto's consit!er the cliaraEter which the wiir was now take , as well Ili the 'sacrifices to this country'and to Europe that .world result from it. and then take care - that those privations should not be longer continued than was absolutely indispensa ble. As to • Negociation, be believed this country j .bad come, out: of. the last With as much honour as out.Of any Negociation since the cemtnencement of its history. He thought that peace was necessary in order that something should be done for Ireland, that wouid'make that country the stay and the sup port of the Empire. He entered his protest against any approbation of the Expedition against Denmark, and besought Ministers not to neglect any opportti nity of making peace. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR should take another oppor tunity of stating, his sentiments on the Danish Ex pedition, and should content himself with stating them' in passing, that as an Englishman he feltdis graced by it. File had risen only to state • what he knel,v of the proceeding in. Yorkshire.. He had been .applied to by very respeetable delegates from that county 'to become the Chair of their Meeting, but -had declined, and endeavoured to. dissuade them from their purpose of petitioning for peace. He as snred -them that such a proceeding would dOOO good, and might embarrass Government' Mille' Ile. gociation which he supposed yvAs then carrying on. T o his argements they had replied, that they were &varying, net only from the effeels of the war, but of the late Orders of Council,- He advised them, in - stead of petitioning againit the war and the Orders - of Council, to petition tor the removal of the King's 11 , linisters. He. repeated that he had given this ad vice, and he contended that there were men to be foetid in that House, who would condu& the Whirs 'of the 'catintry with greater' honour and More pros pect of peace than the present Ministers. Ar r .rEbpr did not mean to oppose the Report of the Address,' because it had been 'agreed by' the Gentlemen who had spoken in the debate, to sus peed any opinion.upon the topics upon' which a dif terepee existed, for the present. He rose merely for the purpose of ,asking fur an explanation from Mi;• ntsterS upon one point in the Speech, Which, ac cording to his construelion of it, appeared utterly irreconcileable with truth. They had been told, that, as soon as the Treaty 'of Tilsit had been signed, his Majesty bad . been apprized of the design of the Enemy to employ the Danish Fleet against, this country, and the Speech added, that it theft became the duty of his Majesty to place, that Fleet out of the reach of ,the Enemy. The Treaty of Tilsit had been Signed' on the 7th of July, and it was not till the 801 of August that the intelligence of that event had..reached thitt couptry. Adttiral Gainbier sailed from England on the-26th July, and what he wish ed to be informed .of • was, whether Ministers had received the intelligeace of the Treaty of Tilsit in sufficient time to allow of the necessary delay in moving troops to 'the coast, providing transports, em.barking ? &o. previous to the sailing of the Ex pedition; Alm' he ibelieved to be impossible ; the Speech from the Throne wits not to be discussed in; that Haase alone, it would go forth to .Europe, and be combated paragraph byperagraPb, by men who would not want dexterity in examining its contents, 'and it was therefore the more necessary to corral the anachronism, and 'not send the Speech forth with its own refutatiOn. In philosophy, the' cause r • precedes the ,effeet, here - the etre& preceded the :'cause. He desired to know, therefore, 'whether Ministers had information of the Secret Articles of the.'freaty of Tilsit previous to the sailing of the Expedition, or. whether .their information: .telated slo any engagements entered into preVioua, tra the ' - s.voitp a o that Trealy r Air. HER would be disposed, in times like the present, when Europe was combined 601114 Ahis country, to support ihe'existing GoVern ,. inept. But though he should pot oppose the Ad dress, ITT/mild not give any pledge of his approba troo of the measures to : Which it . related, 'Hi:. .thought -that, this country held a high ground, and •wasentitled to treat upon terms of perfea equality, 'with' its' ctiiiibitted EneMies; but he lamented that -the Speech 'from the Throne had not held out any -litiasped (+Peace. ' ...Mr.YORKE.- had intended to say but a feW words on theresenk occSsidni bat from the turn which the hich had br papers, than from any.other canse. This he would I,sset.t without reference to any set of men. - . isfullitis addict liOare in verbs Maiiitri. He was old enough to reuiember_the Ametican war , and he could state front - opportu4ties which he had of persooally know'ing the'laft;lhat in *consequence of the production of the papers relative to the 'sailing of the Toulon Fleet, on the motion of a Gen - tleman --- ofverrhigh talents7 . (Mr: Fox,)•TVOIV no more, the French had been enabled to cut off a source of intelligence which this country had pos sessed in . Holland since thew reign of Queen Anne. Was there not enough on the ' face, of such papers, 1 to enable the Enemy to trace.the source whence they might have been received ? He would give credit to Government for having received the intelligence. Ott that fact he would rest his foot, and give his appro bation to the measure. The next Was as to/the po licy of ailing upon such intelligence. - As to the collusion of Denmark, he must confess, that as an Englishman he thought and left, that the Danish Government (fur he would not speak with itlisre speet of the Prince so nearly connected with our Royal FaMily) had acted with ' collusion. ,it must not be forgotten, that before force was employed an i alternative had been given to the Danish Govern i ment, and when that alternative was reje6ted, he thought we were right in employing force to secure the fleet. This conduct was justifiable on the first . ; prieciple of human nature, self preservation. As. to the abstract principles of right which had been 1 so much dwelt on, he respected them as much as any Member of that House, brit in our' respect for ,them. We should not suffer ourselves to become the Victims of abstraet principles of wrong. This coun try' had ever concluded itself with honour, according to the purest principles of righti, and he trusted. it would ever do so. Uoder this feeling 'ho thought _the measure wise; he rejoiced at its success, and heartily approved of the Address. With regard .to the dates which had beet' adverted. to, Gentle men seemed to draw their , whole argument from the rapidity with which the Expedition bad been fitted out and dispatched, a rapidity which they had not been lately accustomed to witness : And if the Crown Prince, - or rather (for Ministers often govern Princes and Kings); if the Bernstorirs,., whose share m the administration of the affairs of Denmark was well known, had formed their esti mate of the 'Expedition, from the speciniens they had lately seen, they could not have suspe6ted that Zealand would have been so soon surrounded. They therefore thought it necessary to keep : their , Arr(ly in Holstein to keep up appearances, Gen tlemen had argued on this subject, as if orders had been given to fall instantly on Denmark. But was there 'hot a N•;gociatiOn to prevent their Fleet from falling into the hands of the gnetny. If th© 'Da- ii nish Army could not have resisted the F r e nc h, I had they pot been offered the Bid of nearly 40,00 a men, who composed the E x p e diti on , l er t h e i r 'defence ? If he was a Dane, be would, feeling for the honour of his country, most readily consent to give up' the Fleet to the English, the kinsmen of his countrymen. As to the question of Peace, he felt that to be . involved in difficulty and delicacy.-- . -- He bad supported the Peace of Amiens, as.an,ex periment ; yet as the experiment had been made, lie, was not. disposed to repeat it. Whi4t Buonaparte continued at ' the head of the French nation, and should continue to govern by military measures, the . monierll We should make peace with hiro, from that moinent . oar dangers would begin. He trusted, , howeve,r,:that Ministers would not rejed any offer td negociate, though the late. negociation proved .how difficult ic would be 'to bring the French Go. vernotent to any fair peace. This Country should ,negociate upon terms ofstri6t equality, aisd that the point of honour should never be given up. He, could - not but deprecate those Petitions that were coming up, and he hoped the Hon. Gentlemen op posite would do' every thing in their power to dis courage them, as they could' clone good, and might do. harm, by 'throwing difficulties ,in the way of their vrofessed objeEt. If we were to negociate we should do it upon terms of equality, and . if peace was to be made we should maintain . our situation of ~ with equality France. . /Ur. WIND HA 111 concurred with the : Right Hon. Gentleman' who' had jest spoken, in deprecat ing those Petitions to which he had alluded. :He .agreed with him, that they could do no-goed, tufficiently attended to the force of nation al da -1 ratter, when they sacrificed the reputation of the Country by their conduct to Denmark. As to what the Right Hun. Gentleman had said, that there may be many cases in which the evidence could not be produced, he admitted there might be such cases ) but then the question was, whether they should be a&ed upon ? From the manner in which the argue men t-drawn .frtwt-the'dates Ives'lnet, - it might be in ferred, that the EipeditiOn had been prepaYed fur another object. As `if Ministers hail not prepared the - expedition•fer the objet; :but provided an °hie& for the Expedition. They' had got the money and it must be spent. They hadColleotecl the troops and transports, and then they thOught . they must per form an adt of violin When the Expedition had... performed its office, it was tithe eiseugh to pick out of the Treaty of Tilsit a ground for hiving dispatch ' edit against an unoffending 'Neutral. He had been , led farther than he intended, The'soleabjea of hit rising was to reprobate the corrupt dootrines of vena lity which had been broached on this occasion,--1 -10 was sorry to find those doctrines receive the sane. tiowthey .did from the very respectable authority of the Right Hon. Gentleman wise preceded beim° be was convinced that they would, if adolited and ailed upon, lead to the ruin of this country, . - 44 t r. lONTelGtfg enlarged on the propriety of keeping stria silence in matters of state secrecy. 11 any disclosure should bring the person who gave the intiinnation into jeopardy, there would be au end of all sirnilarintelligence. Mr. 1111L4JAM SMITH (of Norwich), after tanchiug lightly on the Copenhagen business,Com• mended the conclua of the Noble Lord who was Mern4er for Yorkshire, in discountenencing Petition - I; for Peace. He would. have acted in the same manner' if a Petition had beet' proposed in the city he had the honour to represent, though the interests of the inhabitants of that city suffered as much as the in wrests of any other part of the community by di° continuance of the War. This he would do, in the confidence that His Majesty's Ministers would omit no opportunity to restore Peace : if he should find that any fair opportunity was negleeted, then he would encourage the Petitions, with a view to compel Mt' nisters to negotiate. Mr. Secretary CA N 1111.1 1 ,0 said,. that though the regular Copy of the Treaty of Tilsit had not reached this Country till the Bth of. August, the substance ' of that Treaty ; and of the secret arrangements, had beeeu received by Government long before. Tiw Note in which the mediation of Russia was offered was received o\ri the tst of August, • and answered on odor 3d. 4t.wasupon this first substantial communicm tion the Expedition to Copenlingen was. undertaken, The arguments of the Right Hon. Gentleman (MV Windhem) from dates, were therefore wholly in' applicable. The precise secret articles, if Minister knew them, may be communicated without mischief , .-43ut all that 'was known 'was the substance: . and 'that was known:very early. To disclose this would be to.betray the source from which it was de rived.. As to the speed used in the preparation of the armament, neither was that a proof of a deter' initiation prior to the arrangements of Tilsit. part of the force that formed, the Expeditiori had been. already at Stralsund - , another part was embarked at home for a different destination., It was only neces sary to change that destination, and to make WO increase. The increase was rapid and considerabilas .but that proved the degree of exertion, and not the length of time that the design had been forint d. WHI7'BIOI4IP, 'did not suppose it pessibla that any secret arrangements:could have beeti formed between France and Rustle prior to the forinsl cons elusion of the Treaty of. Tilsit, As •well might it be said, that time Were , such arrangements prior to the battle of!Vr.4;lland.. Tile Right Hon.Gentle 4 mm admitted Oat no ibj , ary meld be 'done to any one by disclosing tin! Articles, if his Majesty's Minn _stern had the Articles. Crt.iiirly then none coal'', be done by dicloiing, the subs ince, further than whet was done by stating that they. had the stl!) stance. If they would - give only the information `they baa given, he must find himself compelled to believe they had no more. Th e Ri g ht Hon. Gentle' man opposite (Mr:Yorke) contended;-that mischief might arise from di :Closure. He contended that much more mischiefirldpeeu done for the last fifteen ears b- hhold: ide no debate'i'dok; `and the opinions w.. . nay Jun ex.- 'an might u h harm, by embarrassiog any _ y wit. ing information. Beonaparte lea , .. . _ hesitation of disclosing every ' - (1 do in 4 pressed. concerning the Negocietion at Tilsit, and i negociation that might e. en , t) tered into. - Ile , his Neeotiatiens nor his Wars Were particularly by his Right Lion, Driencould - (Vol osite tM edit si - • Iles k p se r ' in b T -be a - But though lye concurred . cessful' 3 by his event of reserve: - On sae prmell ~ Beavers°, last nighteseseinione which he was sur- ! 'rule for a negotiation. this point,h ' avowed by the Right Min. Getilletnati oppaiite , " prised to hear trom that (et: t ri e r—he had felt , it .his 1 with , tke Right Hon. Gentleman in Ti e was iiiipces:ble any Negotiation with him could sac" duty to state his sentineeste on this eubjea. His {would go a little further than him in another. The thing, r ti e t i l i d de y r e ed t n at e l i . t su ite c ; 'Majesty's Ministers bad declared, that, shortly after . Right Hon. Gentleman had said that he setu not I ceed. On such principles, it he was invited to ne, ' 4 1 g the NegOeletietei tools Piece at Tilsit, his Majesty ! give up the poiut of honour. Now . the point of ' gotiate with the Ri ht Hun. Gentleman, he wou ld: heel been apprized of the inteetion ot the k henry. to 1 , honour was out of the question, give hart safety and. . .decline enterieg int o a di scuss i on w hi c h muit '.ead to turn Ale Danish and Portuguese Fleets -against this "he would be satiSfied, nothing but exa s pe rat i on . H e he Petie country, rand that then 'it beciune the first duty of I " tlive us klud.dulness, memory and rhyme..- ' did not disai)Pr'w ° • of the Yeti 'eels for Peace. The Weed of t. „ . his Nlajesty, as Proteaot of his. Kingdom, to pre- \ 4 , WA put °Weenies to another time. , ' tie nets was net to impress the neeessity. of Peec4 °!' any terms, but te impress the propriety e,► it, •f.i dlspostr , • , • • vent those Navies train being employed to a d the ; He knew pf notlung in this, case in which honour s . tion to embrace the first favourable opeenu n e i , designs of the Enemy. His- Majesty lied told them I was concerned. As to what had been stated with . to ob ain an equitable peace. Fice hoped, Il:relnr that htt;haii been apprized of 'suele-intentione ut the etietliy e an& what were 'they to do, but, as :they proveel of, his measures, to assure his Majesty that 1 respea to the morality of the measure, that`he con. aPe i siclered the most alarming feature of 'the pre- ; sent times e and highly, as the, measure muse its his , that Petitions would be multinlicd, in order to NO" pel Ministers to a disposition,' more , co nciliator r ,y . ' they , participated, in his regret that •hostility- ; opinion atfea the reputation and charaaer of the , country, his did not look upon that etreet ai either i ; Objeetiona ,of etiquette. B e h e ld his" Maiest)', than that, which starts horn Neeceation for me . : latest him ~ on. the success with which. that 1 Ministers pledgedt in justification of the.E7iP - e i 'so forinislable or importent as the doetrituie that ha , ,l hostility had been attended. It had been said, . been broached upon this occasion : they formed a t , tiOn to Copenhagen, to make out the existence a Confederacy ,hostile to Britidn, rior to the formal that stAcient grounds had-; no t been stand to i kind of epoch in the public morality ot the nation. , conclusion f of the reap of Lett, T T ., • anti he did not ic 4 . justify the' measure e but he would .fiSic any man We were now adopting what . we had beeit so loitg • now that could be math! out. In order to pro, c !, acquainted with public business, whether the nature ! deprecating, .rind had only to justity,ourselves, like : of eueGovernment was nut such, that the Govern- : the man in the French Comedy, bysaying, ~ All . .th i. eii ability todelend Denmark against France, fits merit could .not preeeed it it did not often ad upon `. is now changed ;" " rirtutem verta." There . majesty s Minieters ought at least to have kept 1 7 ° e. grounds whichscbuld not, consistently with the rote- . could be no doubt that a departure from morality in session of Zealand for tee winter. He wds . other sit ? Upon this , rests ofthe country, 'be - made public ' d lie woeld"give fits confidence to Geeerement, ; i grout)t (Mr. Yorke) had been a Dane at Copenhagen , ,we .were to say that the maxims of right were: in the r ' • to gi' `•• ' f whom it might be ; - • very fine, things, but that we might iv , 1 without regard-to the persons 0 . abstraa , s g eshem • would here been so far from, beingdisposed _ so i compcised. 'He would give -his confidence to the up as our occasions may reqiiire, that doariiie would the Danish Fleet in the Manner ii st , hich it "' et tiP h .. Id .t I en iven _up a L' i Lite Goveriimeot on that score, though it was known !he the most fatal symptom of our condition ;it asked, that e wou no ieve es g that he had not been in the habit of concurring in I would be • the most dreadful of all revolutions.— i of old junk. ' order ed ' ' theft measures, if they made his I Majesty declare in ; ' As the Hon. Gentleman, whom he hoped to hear i sure . , 0 'The Address was read and agreed to, and . as bers e Is fix the ' I his Speech, that he had . sufficient groull • often in that House (Mr. den had • justly observed, ' to be resented to his Majesty by such Mein measures .they might adopt. Did not every man of : • the doctrines here precede the fact.: Peole may be : P Privy Council. are of the_ __ e id tithe COMMOI) sense know, that measures ot war were ot- driven from their resolutions, 'but the { case is not It was then ordered . , . that the House steel . si , ten t;ities,7l.silieteno'ittforination could be divulged hopeless till their principles become as corrupt as d - -ion on 'A?'" his Majesty's Speech Into coast eta ., . or was even rt•ceived to justify them ?' The diet- their practice. He should hope that a habit and prin- ,till 11onday. next.—Adjourned s Ilwilfy of procuring inteltigence in the presen f t in- : cieje had taken such deep root in this country, that i ' " ;ince, reuderest i t s till mese heeessary not to ex e , we slionid now but clumsily seta bout these nnpr in- rpcie those sources whi c h yet remained to ne. He ciplet.l ads. We should proceed in our good old Aukivia-i Dublin. i was tonstientiottkiy of opinion, that MOTO inconve- c ourse, and if we are to die, let us perish with our , • • . inience had ari s e, to this countr y from - improvident honour. If the Country is to die, let us not try to i CL grants of inforrnati,ffl, mi d from t h e Government hold out to the last, .by resorting to every course of _I A', 1 being so urgently pressed for the ,productio n V ~foil, iniquity, and wickednes s . Ministers hadnot . c" 1.44 ' e • . MAILS. Du Gottenburgh, r %Waterford. PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT TWILV II O'CLOCK; • eX.II .314,..