The Sun. — London, England, 1808-02-05 00:00:00

IAiPE AZ 1,4 L PAR Lid "WENT: IiOVSE OF PEERS, THURSDAY, FEB. 4. neßishop of than tt,ok the oaths and his Acat. ORDERS IN COUNCIL. Lard 4UtKi„4117.1) gave notice of his intention • to make t Minion to-tpprrow respe6.ting the, recent Ord6rs in Council. . P e wished •to be 1,6 a r;tood, that it was his intention, on making this Motion, to .bring into discussion thp different bearings of those Orders, as they related to Neutral Powers, to Ceironeree, Mannfaaimis, &c. and he fhoqict also take notice of what appeared to him to be cc ntradietions 'in the Orders: ..He.said this in order' that it might not be imPuted to him, that there was any want of candour on big part and if his Majesty's Ministeri wished for any further in tb,rnation rea s peCting the ObjeCl of his ,Motive, was ready to give it. AMERICA. Lord'GriBIVVILLE; said he had a motion to make, to which be WA ,not aware.there could be any Qbjeaion. He had heard - with deep regret that passage in his Majesty'S Speceh Which stated that the President of the United States of America had refused to ratify. the Treaty concluded with the Atnerican Plenipotentiaries. If it were to be under, stood that . the United States would ire satisfied with nothing leis than; our .giving up . our maritime sights, he was-one of those who would contend that we ought,rather to perish in the contest than giye up 'would disable us from maintaining any contest. He hoped, however, that thet'e yet re mained' the meatis of conciliatiOn consistent with the true interests 'oe , bOth States.' It has said by some, that Atnerica 'would lose much - .more by a war with this Corintry, than thiS country could by . 11 war with America. , The greater risk in i such ontest - might be incurred by the United States but acalentation of the greater or,, less loss - to be sustained in such a contest was one which' he could not at all enter, into. Ho understood that there was an- inaccuracy in that part of the Speech to which he had alluded, and that the President of the Unite States bad not the power of rejeCting the Trvaiy, which could only be the,a4' of two-thirds of i !le Senate. If this was the case, a new and very important view would be 'opened with re spett to the Orders in Council, inasmuch as they were a ,violation u; .two of the Articles of that 'Rea , ty. ai Thus,' notwithStanding the discussions' that Treaty were still pending, as he believed; the Presi daot, not having rejeCted, or not haying the t power of rejerktg the Treaty, Niinisters liad.advisedhis Ma es4 ,to ismie Orders Which violated two of the ticisof that Tre:ity. He %V 9uld:not now - , hoWever, entWinto the question respeeting the policy ef these. objet' was to obtain an' Official Copy 'of the..Prosident's Message to Congress, in width wa‘iiitnq:;:l the plan intended to be Pursued withre 7 eounny, , ilis Lordship Ooneluded . by moving for any Official Copy which might .have o f t h e Message froin- the President at ii . tett States- to Congress, on the f.t7th of, p3ober, i gO7, L,o'd , li 7 KE,Vlurty Hilid, he would not suffer t t be drawn by any observation of the Noble ,!, a premature discussion of thii subjea. with't he Lord in; his •> pl.-;,.!;:ve peace with the *United States of erifiltl' be done consistently with the iotcyc. Is of this Country: When the day should . y ; 0 for the dici,:ussion of this import ant question, be —ifident it would appear, that hit Majesty's.Go y‘i wilt bad adopted crery I.IIWSOIC that could tend, to promote the reciprocal interests of both States, and that Was consistent with the true interests of this Couiqty, fie had no objeCtion to the Nolale Lord's Motion The Motion was ,agreed to, as was also another rnotioo of Lord OiteNvit., for any 'information that tolght have been received since, respeaing the Lord ERSKINZ asked, whether the ee.ibargo oh in the American Pons, was resorted to after they had received the Orders in Council, or any jj,i t yrn i atiOn of their nature, or of, the intention of Ce British Government to issue such Orders Lo'd. HdirKLVIVRY said, that IA Majesty's • Gexcirnment had no reason to believe that the Ante.; • rii•ati Government were informed of , the Orders in Qotincil previous to laying on the Embargo, • Lott ERSE:WE repeated his question, as to whether the Am-, , rivan Government were informed of the intention of issuing such Ordere? answer was given. NE,tITRAt. Lard dUCK.Ivd ND moved for a Copy of the Declarwion wade by the Negociation with America, to the Pitqiipotentiatiefi of the United Suites, re spetAing the French Decree .of the 21st of. Novell), her, 180. if Ministers would not grant the Paper, )10 hoped that at least it might be all Owed to be used . . in debate, as it" w* a matter of notoriety. • brird t . I I IOESI3IIIiY objodect to the produc tion Gf this Paper, it being •connated with the Treaty, which had not yet' been laid before the 110 , 1se, and which, during the discussions-pending with the United S4ttes, it might not' be politic to produce. The:l44l3er might, however, be used in debate. ' Lord HOLLAND commented on the generosity of 'Noble Lords, On t h e other side, in allowing a Paper to be,tised in debate, Which lutdAready been ioubliAted • in every newspaper in Iluropc, and con tended. for produ&iont The question was put and negatived. Lord ROLLAND moved for. the produ6tion of such information as might have been received from: the Minister of any Neutral Power, or our Minister Atnciica, respating'the-manner in which it was lutended to execute the FrenclitDecree .of the 21st of NoNmiTher, I t*,o6. Ho wati glad to hear fl'oru thti 'Noble .;secretary of -State, that our Order, i n r eouncil had not reached America previoni to .the Embargo;' anct understanding that, on the 17th :of September, the Frnell Government 'gave ? different ‘, l lV9natiou-cf 'Deere° from. tint previously ad llered' .titisraetf,h'iiiined' rigtootigly t o execnt , i t ; 11Q• was'ie(.l. to hopi.; IhtietliFf.i . cOtirluapr the 'French 4!Overnment Mighrbe:the motive -for Ilia Latbargo. • The 'n - Otion WflS agreCd to, aci were . nl-30 two oihei• i rwiOrlS of Lord Ho t.t.!.ND, for certain proceedings tho Court of Adtniraity, XRPEDITIONS TO CONSTANTINOPLE ANT) ALEXA.VDkI.k. Earl GREY complained of ronnwrs hiving again been circulated, he did not knoW Whether brit certainly falsely, taf the late ItlinistLx4 having attacked Alexandria whilst We we 4e at Peace with, the Porte. He felt it to be his duty under such circumstances to move , on a futpre 44y for several Papers connected with-that Expedition ? ' and.partir cularly for the InstrualouS sent to our Minister at Constantinople,, and the Orlic.ers euiplbyeti, : %viten he was convinced it would appear that the condua of the late Ministers was in every vespea consi;:cnt with good Pith. His objeSt in this instance was nut merely personal feeling, but the vindication pf the honour and good faith of the COuntry. CURATES' BILL Some conversation took place on the motion for the second reading of this Bill made by. the Bishop of Bangor. It was opposed by the Earl of Lauder dale ; and, after -a few observations from the Lord Chancellor, ,supported by the Archbishop of Can terbury. Lord SLOMOUTII opposed the repeal, on the principle 'already stated, that the Clergy Were en titled to the 'protection and indulgence,of the House. It was better, he said, to allow the suspension to continue for the twenty-sii days it had to run, ung less the Parliament was prepared to say,Ahat no relief would be given to such" as suffered frOm want of attention to the forms required by the„Mt of the 36th of the King. Lord GRENVILLE supported the repeal, on the ground that it was not a favour, but the contrary, both to Clergy and Laity, to occasion a Want of certainty in the laws to which the subject must look fbr his proteClion and rule of obedienCe. He had long thought, that too great a readiness had.been shewn, of late, to suspend general laws on account of particular hardships—and he took this opportuni ty of earnestly pressing upon the consideration of the House, the mischiefs that might arise from such a praCt ice. The Bishop of BANGOR said, that he had propos ed the repeal, having in view the principles stated by the Notate Baron. Lora itEpLSDALE and the Duke of NottroLK spoke in favour of the repeal .; and the Bill was tend a second time And ordered to be committed. Earl GREYthought it desirable that a day should, be fixed for the motion for Papers relative to" the Turkish Fleet and Alexandria, of which he had just before given a general notice, lie therefore named Thursday nett. As the notice he had given for to morrow related to Papers conneeted with the sub jal, he would postpone that notice to Thursday, that they might all . cOme together. Lord HAWKESBURY expressed a desire that the .day t should be tixed on which . ditFerent motions of which notices had been given were to r corn on, as uncertainty was very inconvenient. • Lord GRENVILLE intimated that the notice re lative to the'Orders of Council ghen by a Noble Baron, not then in the House, would, he had reason 'to believe, be postponed from Friday se'nnight to Monday sc'nnight. The motion of the Nobly 13Ae (Norfolk) for rapers respeCting Copenhagen stood for Monday first, and would, he supposed, remain fixed. The, motions of -his Noble Friefid (Grey) would come on this -day sc'nnight, when he hoped he would make a statement. which it was absolutely necessary to bring before the public, not solely from a consideration for individuals, but in order to sup port the hQIIOUe and good faith of the Country, which appeared to be abandoned by those who ougut to protect HOUSE of COMAIONIS'. TItURODAY, FEB. 4. A Ballot took place• for a Committee to try tho merits of the Petition complaining of the Clrippen ham Elettion.. following are the Members of the Committee:— Wm. Wigram, Esq . . 1, Cutler Lethbridge,Esq. Davies Giddy, Eitq. Hon. Wellesley, Esq, fames LoWtheri Esq. George Smith, Esq. kightlioh, N. Vansittart, Nom, Sir Vicary Gibbs--Might V. Baxard, Em. 1:)Ini St, Clair. lulus Lorton, tiJg, Sir Waiter Nlarytub of Titeltheld. Titclluslon, Ebti. itES. Hon. Charles Long. • Mr. WHARTON brought up the Report of the Committee 91 Ways and Means. The Resolutions were agreed to, and Bills ordered accordingly. Mr. ItosE, pursuant itg notice, moved for and oh- Stained leave to bring . Bill to amend the Ad fur the better regulation of the Office of TreaSurer of the N'.lvy, that• At and the. I'4)th Report of the Commissioners of Naval Enquiry, and the ~Fourth, Report of the Commissioners of •Naval Revision, having beery previously entered as read. , Mr. SWAN gave notice, that he should to-morrow move to postpone the order for taking the Penrhyn Petition, into consideration, be 'put off to a more distant day than that : at present fixed. The Brazil Goods Bill was read a second time, and ordered to ht. committed to-morrow. The Ainericait Intercourse Bill wits rePorted, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to.morrow. ' The order tier the produtlion of the Account of the Amount of Unclaimed Dividends at the Bank, %vas diScharged on the indtiou of Mr. HUSKI6SON, and a new order made for an Account of the Amount of Unclaimed Dividends in the Bald:, at the and of each ,quarter for the last three years ; and also of the' Lottet'y Prizes unclaimed within the same period. Mr. HUSK ISSON presented certain Accounts of' Exchequer Bilis outstanding; Which Were ordered to lie on the table. Mrr. HusxissoN obtained leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the issuing and payitrg of Exchequer gills. Mr. .Situarpribr stated, that _he understood it to be . the desire of several Gentlemen from. Ireland, that he should not bring the Motion, of which he had given notice for Monday, foiWard on that day ; and as Several Petition's .were to be presented from that Part of the kingdom, he begged leaVe to with draw his notice for that day. lie should in the mean time consult with the Gentlemen from that part of and should be prepared to fix a day on Mondayfor biAngirig for Ward his Motion. WILMEMID wished to know, whether the'llight Hon. Secretary for FOreign Affairs was likely to attend in his place this night, because he wished to put' a question AO him on the sublet of some Papers from which he had read extratts lasi night. Air; HUSK/340/ cdula not inform the Ron. Tim accounts which have been .received respea ing Sir RICHARD STRACHAN'S Squadron are very contradi6tory. 'We haVe, however, no dpubt but that the gallant Admiral is in pursuit of the Enemy. It is stated, that, in his first attelppt to _pur sue them, he could not weather tile Bah and therefore he returned to his station' oil Roche fort, supposing the French Squadron had put back ; but fin'cling that not to 'bp the case, he again sailed in quest of the lnerny. From the state of the Wind from the period that Sir burr DUCKVOTTH sailed in pursuit of the Rochefort Squadron, the most sanguine expectations are entertained that he will overtake them. • WE yesterday mentioned. that accounts had been received from Lisbon, of a recent date. A Gentle.: man . who made his ciOape from that. City on 'the 'l7th ult.- states, that the Army of General JUNqT, which entered Lisbon, was composed, in a great de gree, of Poles, Germans; and Prussians, and. that there were but few French among them Qn 'the day they arrived, the populace hissed them, and even went the length of pelting them with stones and dirt, the consequence of which was that the French charged them, and several lives were lat. • General JuNoT, from the disposition manifested by the inhabitants ) has cleemedit necessary to bar ricade and fortify the Palace in which he lives..— Soon after his arrival General JUNOT went to the Opera, and sat in the Pair 013 Rec;tirr's box, upon which all the PoEtuguese,thitt were present put. on their hats . , arid immediately quitted the The'atr'e. WE have this Bitty given some further ElamQs lon i the French Papers, AG arriv4 a I'vhich vire Aotice4.l on I'Vedoesday. Getqlemarbethor _aig!lt Hun. Izriend intended to cou*.'thiWn 1t the Houze this *evening - . 41 shied, that the question he.: had ask yias, whether the Right Hon. Secretary would Itave any objeBion to produce the whole of those - letters from the late Noble . Secretary for Fo reign Afairs, from. which he had read extraas yes terday.- He begged the Hog. Gentleman to state the object elm inquiry to .his Right Hon. Friend, with a view to his biting prepared to give an answer 'to the question, whether he did not think it in fair- ness due - to the Foreign,Secrptary, from whose let. • tetii he had quoted exfraas to the House, to pro duce, the whOte of, thee leiters.--*-Adjoulned. TO TILE EDITOR OF TIM SUAr. Sin, A late Debate in the House of commons has furr nished both Mr. WrtionAm. and Mr. TIERNEY with another opportunity of exercising their respeaivo abilities. rhese.Gentlemen, fatigued with the dull uniformity of ordinary debate, and finding them selves upon the very preciturs of despair from anti cipatdd defeat, rushed from the walls of Copenha gen to the walls of the Royal Exchange, where, in a strain of acrimonious spleen, they vented their rage upon the Gentlemen who condua the - - affairs of Lloyd's, because some other Gentlemen, the greater .portion of whom have nothing to do either with Lloyd's or its con cerns, voted honorary tcWardi to cettain Officers who cooduaed the enterprize against Iluenos . Ayres, • The objeft, Sir, of this Letter is merely to shew that thelVit.of Mr. Wmitss.m, for amidst all. his faults he has wit, and the computing dullness of Mr. TIERRY, who, - amidst tall his qualifications, has no wit, were aimed at the heads of those who .had no more to do with the Officers in question than either Mr. 'WINDHAM or Mr. TIERNEY had to do with the Siege of Copenhagen; certainly not so much as these Statesmen had to do with the glorious Expeditions to Alexandria and Constantinople, dur ing the short, but splendid, Administration of " All the Talents !" " The Committee for managing the affairs of. LLOYD," whom Mr. WINDHAM, and idginus ornne, have always chosen to identify with "the Committee for man4ing the Patriotic Fund," have no relation whatever to each other ; the former were.eleded at the iiist establishment of LLOYD'S, more than calf a century ago; for the management and superintend*: once of concerns purely commercial ; the latter Committee were elected in the year 180, from the subscribers to a fund, raised by the ratiotism.of the Country, to reward such of its defenders ni might suffer in combatting the common Enemy who then menaced the shores at' Britain. ,As a preliminary, Sir, to a future correspondence with you upon the nature ; of the PatriotieFund, which vulgar insolence has libelled, and misguided talents have aspersed, I Lave taken permission, thus briefly, through the medium of your Paper, to con vince the Public, that `.‘ .she Committee for manag ing the Affairs of Lloyd's," are innocent of the charges - drawn'up by 111 r. WINDITASI, and Mr. TIER NEY. In my future letters, I will endeavour to . convince the'same Public of the injustice of Ell the charge* which Imp been brought againht the Com mittee for inanaging... the Patriotic Thud & and the reasons, hitherto unknown to the.public, of the mo.; fives in which those charges originated. )(ones, Cmtiftcr.L. MAILS. A Iv Dublin. • 1)111+5 qottenbUrgh, t Dublin, • 7 Watc tront • • Or STOCKS Trus DAY AT Trvi.i.v L O'CLOCK. Consols - - 6 3 b Red. Ann.. - • 64 64 T I S U N. SALIM QUIS DICICRA DALaUM AUDEAT L`ONDOIV FRIDAY, kiBRUARY 6, 1808. Trrot)Cri we were Persua,led that, in tim - opi pf all Men of sense and patriotism, no vin:lication of .the eonduta , of Ministers, respeaing the, Danish . Expedition, was necessary, yet we were anxious to have the subject brought into Parliament, that, th© sentiments Oldie People in general 'might be coo arnied by tl;e judgment of their Representatives. That the subjeti underwent a full and fair discus sion on Wednesday night, in the House of Coin mons,, and that the result was in the highest degree honourable to the cause of Administration, every rnan - of common sense will readily acknOwledge.. It has been on All hands agreed, that if the necessity of the ineasure had, been satisfatiorily proved by fair induction, Ministers would need no justification, and though there might tot be such dire& formal proof as would be required in a Court of Law., there WS enough to produce a moral conviaion in every im partial mind. The hostile disposition of Den park, previous to our attack, was manifested by all the ac counts of Mr. GARLICXE, onr Minister in that coun try; and her inability to resist France was demonirabla by her tame submisVton, after a French forte , had entered her territories, after the contemptuowl man ner in which BUONAPAItTE had mentioned the Crown Prince,.and his menace, in case that f‘little Rfince" did not aEt in conformity to his will, and after the . proposal made by hltraar to the KING of Swxnas, of giving Norway to him—a proposal which that magnanimous Monarch had communicated ta Den? mark.. If any thing could have roused Danmark into- a sense of duty to herself and this CoutirrY, such repeated insults would have ind3ced her to ac; cept the liberal proposal of Great Britain who fered all the assistance she might need, and solemnly :promised to guarantee her naval force till the ter mination of War.' gut it is evident that Denmark thought to - secure her safety by sacrificing her hod pour and independence, and bad. therefore resolved to become an instrument of franca_ in: her eomitY , against this Country. The Only measure then !eft to Great'Britain was, to possess herself of that which . would have been employed in the attempt to o'4 her destruetion ; and every plea of policy, a nd justice, and self-preservation, will abundantly justify the . course she adopted. The show of Danish troops in Holstein, as if stationed there to resi.vt the French, was what Mr. Witinna.m has bett pleased to style stage-dea, when he poorly attempted.to answer Mr. CANI ! IING'S . 'lrresistible ar guments by powerless sarcasti. Denmarknevercould suppose that ,her small army could oppose the vas torrent of military force which France would have poured. upon :her; if, it .had not been necessary to keep up thejfatce in order to deceive this Country. The wisdom and promptitude, however, of 00 British Ministry effeCtually frustrated the views O f • the Enemy. S ifYil As to the Secret Articles, of the Treaty:of Tils4 nothing more need be said, since there is every, moral proof, notwithstanding the' denial of the. Russian ' Ministers, that they were injurious to this Country; the obstinate refusal of Russia to disclose . them, upon no groUnd but teccuse she would not, affords a ,well-grounded suspicion that they wer ° really hostile to Great Britain. It wa wise policy in our. Ministers, however, though well aware of the tendency of those Secret Articles, to pito for 'the disclosure, and to endeavour to keep LIP an amicable intercourse with Russia, as it was net itu . probable , thiit the Emperor ALcxANDE 4 might become sensible of his humiliating cots'dition, of the danger of connetting himself tog intimately with such a perfidious - Power as France , and. that he might listen to the cpnnsels of those Noble ir who felt, for the honour of Russia, and, ill" deed, to thegeneritisentiment of the Russian peopl e ' ' who .considered their 'Country d'sgraced by the Co duaof their Sovereign . It is impossible to do justice to Mr. CANNINO lo t the clear, comprehen,ive, and eloquent manner ill which he treated . this complicated and imporont measure': His speech on ;his occasion was istortll/ of the best days of the House of Commons. Yesterday a Board' was held et the Admiralty, for the esknination of disabled Seamen and Marines, candidates for Greenwich i-lOspital ; when tweu'r three were admitted tO the House, and ninety-tw o ordered the out-pension. The Enrraeouta, Ca pt. HAR ttl, sailed on Wedrics day' morning from Spithead for the East biles. Admiral HOLLOWAY attended the Admiralty yes , terday, for the first time since his return from New' 'foundland, having been confined by the gout at 1 119 seat in Somersetaiire. Yesterday a Cabinet Council was held at Burling ton House, which was attended by all the Membe r , 6 of the Cabinet. NATIONAL Dear.—Au aecount spewing what PP' been iedeemed of the National Debt, the Land TIM and imperial Loan : . Redeemed by annual million: - Ditto by ti. , per cent. per alumni on Loans • 63.-11,6 i Ditto by Land Tax 22,97 (10 . 4 ; Duo by 11. per cent, per ann. on Imperial Loan . B '94 3 -D Sinking Fund on 11, 0 00,00ei. Loan,tBo7 749.4 ‘i Tata' X: 15 6 / 3 / 2 ' 2a3 T ll4 79inni. l to nded in the enstliq Tlart4 i5.2,,400 k