The Sun. — London, England, 1836-05-07 00:00:00

m ,tion, which he was sure would be received with s atisfactitn by at least the gre , t majority of Hon. Gentlemen—( Laugl,ter). The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought in reference to the conversations that were going on, and with a view to the convenience of the House, that the better course would be to move the order of the day for going into the Com mittee of Ways and Means. He would then make his financial statement. He did not propcee to take the whole of the votes that would be necessary for the public service. lie would be con tent at present with a vote for a portion of them. THE BUDGET. The House then resolved itself into a Committee of Ways and Means. Mr. Bart Nat, in the Chair. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Sir, the circumstances of the last year under which I was called on to make a financial statement, were such as to require for me the kindness of the House. That kindness I experienced, and I was listened to with that attention which I could only attribute to the circumstance that, for the first time, and under peculiar difficulty, I was d inmn to make it. On the present oc casion, I am aware that no such difficulties exist, that they have passed away, and that it is only requisite for me to acquire in formation that I ought to obtain ; and that I should diligently apply myself to its consideration. I consider, therefore, that the circumstances under which I now appear, are more embarrassing than before ; hut the course I am about to pursue is nne which, if I ant sure of the facts I have to state—if lam prepared, as I trust 1 am, to lay before the iloase a simple, unexaggerated statement—is one which will not require more than what I have brought to the examination of the subject— industry in collecting facts--clearness in making my state ment—and a readiness to give any explanations required. The course, Sir, I shall pursue, will be first to state the im ports and exports of the last and the anticipated year—to re fer to the various Duties and Customs, Stamps, Taxes, and Post-Office—and then to state those few and general observa tions, and they shall be very few and as general as my duty will ad- rdt, which indicate the existing state of the country ; and, finally to state what will be the income and expenditure of the coun try, the manner in which I propose to deal with the surplus, and the taxes I propose to remit. The difficulties of the state ment I am about to make will be shown by the multiplicity of petitions on various subjects. I will not enumerate them, but I ant not entirely in error with respect to them ; there have been presented several petitions praying either for the partial or total repeal of many subjects of great revenue. Now I am constrained to say the circumstances of the finances of the country do not admit of entertaining many of the hopes held out in those petitions. It is for us to consider first what will be the surplus, and then how it should be applied. lam quite sure that on taking off taxation the ta.;k of pleasing all parties is most difficult. lam quite certain that the difficulty of imposing taxes is not so great as their re peal. When you propose to repeal a tax, you have various classes and interests in the country who think they have an equal right to relief—you have the agriculturists, you have manufacturing interests, you have also the adverse interests of town and country—in short, whets you propose the repeal of a tax, there is no end to the difficulty of a Minister of Finance. Sir, on former occasions it has been the course, and I think it not an unfair one, to refer to the transactions of the past, with respect to the subject of reduction in taxation. It is a fair course, and I propose to follow it to-night. I freely admit, Sir, that the reduction of expenditure is our first duty.—( Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) Upon that reduction of expenditure must depend all repeal and all reduction of taxation. Sir, I shall not trouble the House with many re ferences to what took place on former occasions. I will, however, refer for a moment, and in a few words, to a return—not one moved for by me—it is a return prepared on the motion of the Honourable Member for the city of Lincoln (Colonel Sibthorp) to whom I return my most sincere thanks for having done so. This document is a return which was called for by the Hon. Member, for the purpose of show ing the state of the public departments in 1815 and at the pre sent time. This return, Sir, shows a very great reduction. I do not take the credit to this side of the House—the Honourable Gentlemen opposite are entitled to a share of all the credit due from the reduction.—(Cheers.) Thankino. the Hon. Gentleman again, I shall call the attention of the House to the general results to be deduced from the document. In 1815, the establishments of the public departments gave employment to 27,365 persons, who received salaries amount ing to 3,763,100/. In 1835, Sir, the number of persons in the public establishments were reduced to 23,578, receiving in salaries 2,786,278/., thus showing a reduction in the number of persons of 3,787 ; and in point of annual amount of salary of no less a sum than 976,0001. By a Bill introduced by the Government of Lord Grey, and of which the Hon. Baronet op posite (Sir James Graham) had the charge, the expense of the Exchequer Office was reduced to 58,9941—the Ordnance, 122,174/.—the Admiralty and Naval department, 303,489/. — the Audit Office 54,0781., and all the other offices in like pro portion. Ido not say that all the reductions have yet been made that can be made, but with the double view of showing the people that much has already been effected, and of encouraging the House, and the Govern ment, the one to demand, and the other to carry into effect, retrenchment, it being proved that so much has already been done without detriment to the public service.—( Hear.) I hope the House will allow me to say that the more that has been done, the more difficult is that which remains to be effected. But we will not shrink from that difficulty—we will persevere in the same course we have heretofore done ; and if we can carry into effect in any public department, in the collec tion of the revenue, or any other branch, any retrenchment con sistent with the public service the House may rest satisfied that they shall be carried into effect. I will now proceed to the details of the income and expenditure. I shall in the first instance compare the estimate I made last year of the future income --of the present year with the actual receipts of that income. as received up to the sth of April. I do not do this with a`ny personal object, but it is important that the House should kna'w whether my calculations of the past year are founded on insufficient data, in order that they may judge of the correctness of my calculations for the future year.— - ( Hear, hear, hear.) I calculated last year that the Customs' revenue would produce twenty millions. The actual receipt has been 20,539,450/., exceeding by half a million the amount estimated. I calculated the Excise at 13,270,000/.; the re ceipt was 13,442,1121., exceeding by 172,1121. the amount calculated ; the Stamps at 6,980,000/., they produced 7,051,365/., being an increase of 71,3661. The Post•office I calculated at million, it produced 1,551.4001, showing an increase of 51,460/. Upon the miscellaneous estimates there was a balance against the receipts of 24,304/. ; but, on the whole, the receipts exceeded my calculations by the sum of 830,427/. This shows that upon similar data and principles—calculating the amount of the revenue for the next year—the House may have some reliance on ivy calculations.—(Hear.) I hope anticipating that the present state of the county will continue undisturbed, that the House will not commit any error in giving credit to my estimates for the ensuing year. I proceed with the calculations of the present year, and will compare it with the actual amount, the charge upon the consolidated fund, and the interest of the public revenue, exclusive of the West India Compensation, which I shall refer to when I come hereafter to deal with the surplus. The expense of the army has been 6,481,957/„ showing an excess of 292,957/. Sir, the cause of that excess arises in this way, that the payments for the year are not always what are anticipated ; and Honourable Gentlemen arc aware that I have not from the year 1831 taken any vote whatever upon army extraordinaries. A very great al teration with respsct to the financial concerns of this country has taken place, and a mode of proceeding has been adopted which has brought under the observation of the House much more minutely and closely the expenditure of the country than was formerly the case. It happens frequently on the present occasion that advances may be made out of the army vote to be afterwards repaid out of the civil service. For instance, there is an amount that will be paid out of the South Wales charge for convict expenses, which was advanced in the first instance, out of the military chest. The Navy was 245,0001. the expenditure, 4,099,130/. less than the estimate, 145,570/. Having given a comparison of the estimate of income and expenditure of the past year, and the actual result of the income and expenditure of the past year, I now proceed, Sir, to a comparison of the receipt and expenditure of the past year, and the estimatedreceipt and expenditure of the present year, still exclu ding all charge on account of the West India tax. I have already stated. Sir, that the receipt of the public income in the past year amounted to 46,380,247/. I have calculated on grounds that I am about to state, and that I hope will be satisfactory, the expenditure of the present year, supposing no alteration be made in taxation of any kind,—l have stated that the income would amount to 46,380,000/ , exceeding my estimate of the income in the ensuing year as compared with last year of 830,4271. With respect to the expenditure of the ensuing year, as com pared with the last—the expenditure of last year for the interest of the debt and the charge on the Consolidated Fund was 30,580,000/. I calculate the expenditure for the present exclusive of the West India loan at 30,620,0001. The army vote of last year was 0,481,0001. ; that for the present year I estimate at 6,327,000/. The navy vote of last year was 4099,000/. This year, from circumstances which were alluded to by my Noble Friend at the time he, made his statement, there has been an increase ia time Navy grant of 434,0001., which makes it 4,533,000/. The Ordnance estimates of last year was 1,073,000/. ; the present 1,263,000/. ;--reduction 10,0001. The miscellaneous es timates of last y ear were 2,202,000/. Time miscellaneous vote for the present year will be 2,461,0001., spewing a total increase of expenditure, exclusive of the West India grant of 420,0001. Now, Sir, I will endeavour to generalise and bring into a small compass the result of the figures which it may have been painful to Hon. Gentleman to follow me in. Time total income estimated for 1836-37 is 46,980,000/. ; the expenditure, exclusive of charge for the West India grant is 45,205,8071., showing a surplus of 1,774,1931. Gentlemen will, I trust, listen to this with pleasure, and I wish in that we did possess a surplus of that amount ; but we cannot at once perform the great act of justice which the House of Commons, cheerfully and readily sanctioned— we cannot add twenty millions to the debt—we cannot provide for tire interest which we are paying, not only for toe loan we have contracted for, but for time interest we are paying to the planters even previous to that loan—we can not afford to make all this, and reserve to ourselves a surplus of this amount, to be applied to the reduction of tax ation.—( Hear.) With respect to the West India Loan, in stating the Budget of last year, the Right Honourable Gentleman the Member for Cambridge, who attended on that occasion will recollect that I stated I knew not on the present occasion how much we might be called upon inahe' coarse of the year to pay. I stated if the whole Amount were to be' called up within the sear, so far from there being any surplus, there would be a deficiency. But I stated then, and on recollection the House will be Aatikfied that I was correct, what were the demands .-on the public and the charges which were then demandable, and whi ch had left a surplus which came under the considera tion of the House with a view to the reduction of some branch of taxation. :-1:shall now; Sir, pursue the same course. The House is aware yet have the claims on account of the Mauri- tins and the Cape for Compensation been satisfied—tly , t a con siderable sum is yet unpaid. I wish to state that there is a difference between the 15 millions, the nominal amount and the actual amount of 20,000,000/.2 besides a certain propor tion of interest on claims not as yet admitted. The actual amount to he met—supposing the loan of the Mauritius and the Cape to be completed, supposing that all demands were liquidated, including the interest on claims outstanding, as .cell as on those which have not as yet been put in at all— supposing, in fact, that the whole interest were cleared up and paid off, the utmost amount of interest which it is possible to be sought for is 1,454,6041. Sir, on the best consideratio❑ which I can give the subject, the actual payment which will be demanded, on the score of interest, I calculate to be 1,111,8631.; and I propose out of that surplus, which I hate already stated to amount to a sum of 1.774,1931., to make provision for this sum of 1,111,8631., which I suppose to be the highest sum that will he demanded. Then I regret to say that the sole amount of surplus over which Parliament can by possibility exercise any dominion amounts to a sum not exceeding 662,3301. Gentlemen who think that we can apply a large surplus to the reduction of taxation, will do well to bear in mind that unless there be some cross inaccuracy in the state ment which I have made, we shall not have a larger dispos able surplus to deal with than 60,330/. Having stated what the real surplus we can justly expect is, I shall proceed, with the permission of the House, to refer to the various branches of the income of the countr7. in order to show that the calcu lations which I have made with respect to them are correct, I shall take, first, Customs to produce the same amount as last year. On the articles to which I wish to refer the comparison is as follows : Actual Year's Years 1836, 1837. Consumption. Estimate. 23,623,000 23,251,000 Estimate. Coffee 23,143,000 Sugar 3,726,000 3,745,000 3,745,000 Tea 36,000,000 37,099,000 38,000,000 In the article of tea there has been a considerable increase of consumption, and I think we may be justified in expecting a still greater consumption; but it must be recollected that there is at the same time a positive remission of taxation ; and whatever inducement a Minister may have to urge him to the performance of the pleasing task of repealing taxes, 1 think he would ill discharge his duty if he were to exaggerate the amount of future revenue, to gratify his own inclinations, or those of his friends, or of the country, by proposing the repeal of a tax, that, upon a prudential and cautious view of the case, he would shrink from attempting.—( Hear, hear.) In reference to the Customs duties, I shall refer to the state of these duties as indicative of the general state of the country ; and here, Sir, not wishing in the slightest degree to raise any exagge rated hopes, but, from knowing the dangers of misplaced con fidence, being most desirous to communicate my impression of the necessity which is imposed, even by the present state of our prosperity, of acting with prudence and caution, much rather than with exaggerated confidence or rash reliance—far be it from my intention, in referring to the state of our com merce, as shown in the customs return, to depart from that de liberate, calm, and temperate consideration of the subject of the future, which a Minister connected with finance ought to adopt.---( Hear, hear.) Yes, Sir, it behoves the public, the mercantile public, the producers and the traders of this coun try, to weigh well the nature of the transactions which have engrossed the attention of the community, and I doubt not but that they will discover in that prosperity for which we ought to be grateful to Providence, indications which will point out the necessity of acting with prudence, and not being betrayed by present successes into speculations and schemes without end or number—illusions and day-dreams by which the inhabitants of every town and district are, I am sorry to say, now too prone to be influenced.--(Hear, hear.) With these few words of caution, and not departing from the ex pression of satisfaction which I feel justified in uttering with respect to our past and present condition, I proceed at once to show what are the proofs of the advance in the commerce of the country, at which, as far as we are at present enabled to judge, we have have every reason to be grafified.—(Hear, hear.) I have got in my hand a table comparing the state of the country in two periods of four years each ; the first from the year 1828 to 18031, and the next from the year 1832 to the close of the year 1835. Now I pray the attention of the House to the results which this paper exhibits Imports and Exports in the last Eight Years, at official Rates, or a declared Value. Value of Value of Imports Value of Exports from the United the Produce into the Kingdom. and Manu. United factures of Kingdom. Official Rates. the United Years. Produce Foreign exported, and Manu. and according Official factures of Colonial Total to the real Rates. the United Merchan. Exports. or declared Kingdom. dize value. 1328 182 , 18.30 1531 -- --. ---. -- —____ --. 184,969,252 1 •230,833,c..93 39,864,454 170,699,7511 148,059,974 Average 48,243,213' 57,708,623 9,966,113 67,674,937 37 ,014,993 1432 1833 1334 1835 --- - --- 188,813,615 1287,221,322 4 , , 2 18,382 332,462,2 - 8 165,133,332 47---- ---, verage 47,203,41 11 71,806,060 11.109,593 83,115,552 41,280,833 . _ ----. —_— Increase on c o rX ri :,,T . 961,098 i 14,897,257 1,343,482 15,440, 6 15 4,265,840 rages. I think Honourable Gentlemen will see :hat if this country can be blessed with a continuance of such results as those which I have dwelt upon, the fondest lover of his country, a man of the most sanguine and earnest mind, can anticipate for the future no greater degree of prosperity than I have shown to be the effect of the past. Now I wish to show to what great branches of our industry this prosperity extends, and above all how our increased exports have contributed to the great and leading interests of this country : BRITISH PRODUCE AND MANUFACTURES EXPORTED. Declared Value. 1834 1835 .-4,319,000 Increase 13 per Cent. Linen Manufactures. 1834 1835 L--- - -- 647,000 Increase 26 per Cent. Cotton. 1834 1835 1,092,000 Increase 7 per Cent. Hardware and Cutlery. 1834 ...... 1,485,000 1535 350,000 Increase 23 per Cent. 1834 1835 637,000 972,000 335,000 Increase 6 per Cent. Woollen. 1834 1835 -- 1,071,000 Increase 15 per Cent. Out of seventeen articles increase on fourteen. The only articles on which there is a decrease are tin plates, salt, and refined sugar. Sir, this increase in commerce is by no means to be ade quately judged of by our exports, because, on account of the increased consumption and activity of trade, proportionate in dustry is applied to the home market—and this brings me to state the quantity of cotton-wool imported, rather than that which has been exported, as one of the best tests of our pros perity : COTTON WOOL FOR HOME CONSUMPTION. 1833-293,682,000 Ib3. 1834-302 : 935,000 1835-33:3,080,000 Increase in 1834 over 1833 3.15 per cent. 1835 1834-10.36 1835 1834-13.48 AVERAGE CONSUMPTION. Ten years from 1816 to 1825-138,120,000 1826 to 1835-255,975,000 Increase 85 per cent. Buildings and machinery in progress, 4,000,000, and to give employment to 90,000 persons, 40,000,000 lbs. from India.— I shall now refer to the exports of the iron trade from this country, which become exceedingly interesting in this point of view—that it proves how much a foreign demand can tell on the state of our home market. The account is as follows : IRON AND STEEL. Declared value exported. 1833 £1,405,035 1834 1,406,872 1835 1,660,750 Increase 19, per cent. Average quantity annually exported. Tons. Five years-1820 to 1824 00,283 1825 to 1529 . 87,237 _ 1830 to 1834 142,071 This showed what a supply we are able to afford ; indeed, I am enabled to state to the House, on authority which I can rely upon, that an order being given, on the 6th May last, for 1,800 tons of iron rail for America, the whole order was executed by September, without any interruption of the gene ral business, and an actual shipment of iron rail which would cover 57-} miles of road, was made at the latter period.— ( Hear, hear.) There are some returns which would show a diminution in the amount of revenue derived from some arti cles. One of these is foreign brandy; but I think it will be shown by the following return that the diminution in the quan tity of foreign brandy imported, is amply compensated by the increased consumption of home-made spirits. INCREASE OF ROME-MADE SPIRITS, ACCOUNTING FOR DECREASE OF BRANDY. 1834 X 21,574,000 1835 1836 Brandy, April 5, 1834 ... 1,534,000 1835 1836 Estimate for 1817 1,537,000 Sir, it is impossible to look at these returns without noti c i ng the fact (and it would be wrong to pass it ov er uno b served), that as we have bee n advancing n sound commercial an d finan ciali policy, just in the same proportion have our commercial and financial interests been marked by unexampled prosperity. ( Hear, hear.) —I shall in a very few words refer to certa i n articles as illustrative o f the p olic y which has often been made matter of grave dispute in this House. I shall, for ex ample, take the article of gloves. Let us see whether Silk THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, MAY 7. 1•;6 the adoption of this policy in the case of this article I was attended by the deterioration of the home manu facture, or v. hether it had not precisely the contrary effect. Now I shall lay before you an example of the manner in which this new principle operates. I may term it a new principle, or rather the principle propounded by the late Mr. Huskisson, because lie was the man in this House who gave utterance to those great principles of commerce on which we have since proceeded, and which he was the first to originate. I apply this, in the first instance, to the article of gloves. Ac cording to the doctrine of those to whom we are opposed, the result of a free trade in gloves was to have been the total destruction of the home manufacturer. Has such been the result ?_very far from it. The result has Ueen that - the num ber of pairs of gloves imported has considerably decreased within the last year. In 1834 there were imported 1,603,000 pairs of leather gloves, while in 1835 there were but 1,293,000 pairs, making a decrease in the one year of no less than 310,000 pairs. But, contemporary with this vast improve ment, as regards the importation of the manufactured article, the importation of kid-skins, the raw material of the trade, has, in consequence of the duty having been reduced, so aug mented as to give an additional stimulus to that manufacturing interest which was so loud in its apprehensions of impending ruin in consequeoce of free trade. In 1834, there were imported 181,000 undressed, and 617,000 dressed kid-skins, making a total of 798,000 skins altogether. In 1835 the num ber of undressed skins was 235,000, and of dressed 791,000 ; making a total of 1,044,000, and showing an increase in the year of 246,000 skins. In a word, by the system we have pur sued, not only has the importation of the manufactured article decreased, but from the ascertained fact of an increased and increasing importation of the raw material, we are able to de duce the satisfactory conclusion that the trade of the country in this article of gloves is improving. The only remaining subject under this head upon which I have now to call the attention of the House, is the silk trade—that trade which we were told was, by the policy we adopted, to be utterly de stroyed and annihilated. Now, Sir, let us consider what has been the condition of the silk trade of late years; and let us, contrasting that condition with the state in which we now find it—let us see how the forebodings of those who are opposed to our views have been realised. Upon comparing the re turns of the importation of raw silk in the years 1834 and 1835, what do we find to be the result ? In 1834 the quantity of raw silk imported was 3,346,0001b5., of waste, 1,009,0001b5., and of thrown, 185,0001b5., making a total of 4,520,0001b5. In 1835, the quantity of raw silk was 4,151,0001b5., of waste, 1,382,0001b5., and of thrown, 254,0001b5., making a total of 5,787,0001b5., and showing in the year an increase of 1,267,0001b5. And at the same time it should be observed, that there had been a decrease in the amount of duties on the ma nufactured silks imported—a decrease which clearly showed that the imposition of an ad valorem duty had, instead of, as was anticipated, ending in the ruin of the English silk manu facturer, been of essential service to him. In 1834, the amount of duties on manufactured silks imported was 188,000/. while in 1835 it was only 165,0001. Thus you have, as re sulting from the altered system-4rom that system by which the trade was to have been ruined and annihilated—an in creased importation of the raw material, which necessarily im plies increased employment, and a proportionate demand for the manufactured goods of the country.—( Hear, hear.) I might show, by the like means, that with regard to foreign wines and other articles, the whole of the principle upon which we proceeded has been borne out by the result. I observe my Hon. Friend the Member for Worcester differs from me on this point— Mr. ROBINSON—In the case of French wines. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I believe they constitute no exception to my position. I have not by me at this moment the return, but my impression is that the result, as regards French wines, is precisely the same as that of the other articles I have particularised. But looking to the question of these customs generally, it is clear that there has been a considerable increase within the last four years, and though the fact may be that in the first two years we lost, or in the last two gained, I think I am fully justified in ar guing that, as upon the general summing up, there has been found an increase, the alterations we have lately made have been highly beneficial, not merely by the addition they have caused to the revenue, but by the stimulus they have afforded to the trade of the country.—(Hear.) I cannot quit this ques tion of the customs duties without adverting to the very great improvements which, within the last few years have taken place in the custom duties in Ireland in many of the most important ports. Upon a statement of the description lam now making, it is very material that the proportion of the contributions made by that country to the general revenue should not be passed over ; but important as such a statement is at all times, it becomes doubly so when a reference to her imports affords conclusive proof that not only is her com merce sensibly on the increase, but that, from their general nature, may be deduced the satisfactory inference that, in re gard to the comforts and luxuries of her people, there is a cor responding improvement.—( Hear.) The document I hold in my hand is a return of the customs receipts in Irish ports for the years ending 1833, 34, 35, and 36. It is as follows : Year ending Jan 1, 1833. 1834. 1835. 1836. Belfast Cork 149,000 161,000 166,081 186,600 Dublin Limerick Derry Waterford In the year ending Jan. 1835 ... Tea 164,000 1836 ... - 475,000 It is quite true, that in the latter year there has been a great consumption of tea, but as from this circumstance, as well as from the fact, that there is actually now, from many of the Irish ports, a direct trade springing up between Ireland and China—a matter which we, who took part in the discums;on. respecting the opening of that trade, never anticipated—l de rive most satisfactory assurances that the condition of the Irish people is improving. I think the House will join with me in the conclusion, that, upon the general statement, there is great ground for congratulation and anticipation—( Hear, hear.) I cannot conclude my observations in respect to the customs duties without adverting to the reductions lately made in the expenses incurred in their collection. Upon this point lam happy in being able to say considerable progress has been made ; and as a reduction of the expenses of the collection of the customs duties is a matter which is not altogether imma terial, I trust the committee will excuse me if I dilate upon the subject for a very few moments. It is often said that it behoves this House to ask, on behalf of the public, for infor mation on those branches of expenditure which arc not an nually voted by us. I agree entirely in the proposition, that the House has a right to ask for that information, and it is with a view of giving it that I take the liberty of now stating some few details, to show the progress we have made on this head. EXPENSE OF COLLECTION, UNITED KINGDOM. ( Exclusive of Coast Guard, &c.) For the Year. No. of Officers. Salaries. 1817 7731 £819,686 1822 6788 726,572 1827 5220 1832 4976 1835 4809 Diminution in 18 years 2922 630,801 565,021 558,644 261,042 CHARGE OF COLLECTION. 1822 £lo 15 2 per Cent. 1827... .......... t.... 7 1 10+ 1832 6 19 10 1835 5 17 3 BRITISH NORTH AMERICA, AND WEST INDIES. 1826. . . £100,522 1836 84,852 15,670 decrease Future establishment Total eventual saving £32,530 I think by this statement it is clearly proved, that we are gra dually making advances towards a more economical collection of the customs duties ; and, on the part of the Government, do not hesitate in giving a promise, that—a ith perfect safety to the revenue and without danger to the multifarious interests depending upon the proper performance of the duties attached to the officer of customs—we will continue in the course we have entered upon, and whereever a reduction can be made, a reduc tion shall take place.—( Hear.) It must, however, be clearly , understood, that the subject is one surrounded with much dif ficulty, and that while in some cases a reduction will be fur the present wholly impracticable, it is more than probable that the considerations I have mentioned—namely, the pro tection of the revenue, and a due regard to the interests in volved—will compel us to increase existing departmental estar blishments. I may mention tint from the important port of the Clyde we have received a most urgent remonstrance upon this subject, in which it is stated that the present customs esta blishment is utterly inadequate, and requiring that, as an act of justice to the parties engaged in its commerce, as well as for the sake of the revenue, some addition should be made to its strength. Now this application we must accede to, be cause we would not be justified, for the sake of a paltry un substantial economy, in reducing the establishment so low as to hazard either frauds upon the revenue, or the interests of the fair and honest trader, as opposed to those who infringe upon the laws.—( Hear, hear.) I now come to the excise branches of the revenue, and here I expect the House will call upon me to be more explicit than I have hitherto been, and to state clearly the ground upon which I venture to esti mate that there will be found for the comin g year an in crease under this head. Well, Sir, the grounds upon which my supposition is based are as follow :—Under the great heads Of revenue, in my budget of last year, the Committee will recol lect I stated what had been the ratio of increase which in each case had taken place during the preceding four years : and, having done so, I compared the last year with the preceding three years, with a view of showing how in each department the case exactly stood. I have now the result of a similar computation to lay before the Committee, and it will be per ceived by my statement that we have progressed still further in our course of prosperity, and that the improvement upon which I had to congratulate the House last year continues still to flow in a steady and gradually increasing stream.— ( Cheers.) I will take each head alphabetically as it stands, commencing with that of auctions— Increase per cent. Increase per cent. year ending April year ending April 5, 1835, as corn- 5, 1836, as com pared with average pared with average of 3 preceding y rs. of 3 preceding yrs. Auctions Bricks Glass Hops 2l No. of Licenses Malt 3 Paper, Ist and 2d class 7 iVlillboard 7 Stained l7 Hard Soap Soft Soap 1 decrease Spirits Vinegar 4 decrease 8 12 increase 13 so that under all these heads of excise revenue—after having had a large increase last year—l am enabled to afford the sa tisfactory intelligence that there is a corresponding increase in the present. Now with respect to the :duty on malt. I should observe that it is on malt I anticipate a very great por tion of my increase. I will now tell the House on what data this anticipation is based. In the year ending January 1, 1833, the consumption of malt was 37,987,00 0 bushels; in 1834 it rose to 40,517,000 bushels ; and in 1835 it again rose to 40,662,000 bushels, showing that on an average of the three years the consumption was 39,722,000 bushels. Now for the year 1836 the consumption is feand to be no less than 45,317,000 bushels, being an i^.creas2 of 5,595,000 bushels. Here I must be allowed to observe, that I think those who doubted the policy of the course pursued, as connected with this tax of late years—the policy, firstly of repealing the beer tax, and secondly, the policy of resisting the repeal of the malt tax—must now be fully satisfied that in so doubting they altr gether miscalculated the probable effects of it.—( Hear. ) At all events, the result to which I now refer must fully justify those Honourable Gentlemen on both sides of the *House— for we were united on both those questions—and who as sisted the Government in bringing about the total abolition of the beer tax, and in resisting the proposition for the reduc tion of the malt tax, for the votes they gave on those occa sions. It is quite impossible that the gradually increasing con sumption which has taken place in this article of malt can have taken place without giving to the agriculturists the full measure of benefit of which it is an indication.—( Hear.) But even upon the increase which we find in the last year, I anticipate a further increase—indeed a considerable increase—in the cur rent year.—( Hear.) This expectation rests on vague surmise —it is not a mere calculation, but is deduced from data which are not likely to prove fallacious. By reason of the malt laws, under which the tax is established, I have now before me a re turn of the actual amount of charge which will be receivable under its head within the next six months ; and in order to gain the amount likely to accrue within the other six months of the year, I take the average of the analogous six months in the three preceding years. These two sums I add together; and, deducting from it the sum of 200,0001. for repayments and drawbacks, I find that the probable amount of malt duty for the current year may be taken at 5,650,0001.—(Hear.) Now, I cannot quit this question of excise, without shortly adverting to the experiment which the House sanctioned me in making last year, because it becomes very material when I come to the close of my argument, and when I proceed to state the practical result I draw from the adoption of the principle upon which that experiment was based that its result should be dis tinctly placed before the House. Last year I was induced to try an experiment with respect to the trade in glass. The duty of 6d. per lb. was found to press heavily on the trade, and having reason to believe that through its means the fair and honest manufacturer was oppressed, that the revenue was con stantly cheated in the drawbacks, and feeling pretty well as sured that the increased excitement which wuldd be given to the trade by the reduction of a duty I believed to be excessive, would make up for the consequent deficit, I ventured to pro pose in the last year a reduction from 6d. to 2d. per lb. lam not, owing to the short time the experiment has been in ope ration, enabled to say that all my anticipations have been re alized; but certainly I may say that as far as my means of in formation extend, the result has been quite favourable to those theorists who lay down the proposition that the increased con sumption upon the reduction of a duty believed to be ex cessive will make up for any diminution the revenue may on the moment sustain. The return as regard flint glass is as follows : _ . FLINT GLASS. First round ending Feb. 20, 1835-1,196,720 lbs. 1836-1,272,992 Increase 76,272 Second round, 1835-1,219,792 1836-1,394,176 Increase 174,384 Quarter ending April 5, 1835-2,416,512 1836-2,667,168 Increase Already, therefore, there has been an increase under this head of revenue to the extent of 10 per cent., and I have every rea son to expect that accordinr , as competition progresses, and capital is employed in the trade, this increase will improve. To show the effect the reduction has already had upon th e trade, I may as well read an extract from a reply that I re ceived to a letter requesting information on the subject, from the collectors employed in this branch of the excise department —it states that— " In the Lichfield collection, two additional furnaces have been built—a manufactory re-opened—another is in course of erection—a third is contemplated. In Manchester there is an increase of fourteen per cent.—in Stourbridge eleven, not withstanding the increased price of the materials, the value of red lead, and American ashes having ,considerably more than doubled in the last year In the York collection, the manufacturer has considerably enlarged his works, but has yet more orders than he can execute, during the next four months. In London, the immense demand for phials. moul ded bottles, and other low-priced articles, shows that the illicit manufacturer is beaten out of the market, and causes great difficulty in procuring a sufficient number of hands to perform the work. There are comparatively few arrests for illicit manufacture." As resulting then from my experiment, I have the increased employment of the manufacturers, and of the persons engaged in this trade—the benefits to the public at large, by the dimi nished price of an article of comfort—and I have, above all, the diminished number of prosecutions for offences aeninst the 5..-ss,s,s. Novi, I contend these results alone ought to be suf ficient encouragement to the House to persevere in the course that I have taken, and in case of all taxes felt to be injuriously excessive, consumption t o reduceunhesitatingly, ake u p any temporary relyi n g upon deficit t h in e the increasere.. of renue.—( Hear, hear.) But upon this point I have another example to quote, and one of considerable importance. I allude to the reduction of the duty on Irish sprits. In 1833, upon the proposition of my Noble Friend ( Lord Spencer), the duty upon Irish spirits was diminished. Now what had been, the result of that measure? In every sense a most favourable one. In the year ending Ist January, 1833, the number of gal lons of Irish spirits brought to charge was 8,542,000 ; in 1834, 8,382,000; and in 1835, 10,329,000. From this it appears that the average brought to charge during the three years was 9,084,000 galls. Now, in the year ending Ist Jan. 1836, there had been no less than 11,634,000 gallons brought to charge showing an increase above the average of the three preceding years of 2,549,000 gallons, or of nearly one-third of the whole consumption.—(Hear, hear.) Well, and what was the in ference lie drew from this fact? Why, that they were now, at a diminished duty, receiving a greater amount of revenue than they did at the time the duty was highest in amount.— ( Hear, hear.) In concluding this branch of my statement, I wish to mention that many considerable reductions have been already made, and are still in progress, in the Excise esta blishment. I may say for certain, that by the discontinuance of the survey on brewers and wine sellers 187 officers have been reduced, and salaries to the amount of 18,8571. thereby saved ; besides which, we are freed from all the turmoil and difficulties of the Excise surveys of 101,687 dealers in tea, 9,126 dealers in wine, and 36,861 brewers.—( Hear, hear.) I shall now proceed to the smaller branches of the revenue. Sir R. PEEL—At what is the Excise calculated? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER— At 14,170,0001. This is the amount of the estimate for the next year as stated to me by the presiding officer of the department—the same officer who drew up the estimate of the past year, which the Committee will recollect has been realised by the result. It has been formed, I should also mention, upon the same data as that of last year, and I be lieve the House may rely upon its correctness. I now come to the stamp duties ; but I wish in the observations I shall make in reference to them, not to allude in any way to the al terations that are in contemplation. This will form a separate topic, and would only serve to embarrass the details into which I have now to enter. It appears from the returns under this head, that with two exceptions, namely, the duties on probates and administrations, that the excess of last year, after preceding years, is likely to be followed up in the present. Under the heads of the probate and administration duties, there is a likeli hood of a decrease ; but the amount of loss under these heads will be more than compensated for by the amount of gain under others. I now come to the question of the Post-office. In deal ing with this question, I should mention that the convention lately entered into between his Majesty the King of Eng land and the King of the French upon the subject of an intei'change of _communications between the two countries, exercises a considerable influence upon it. For a time the arrangement which this convention is intended to carry into effect will involve some loss of revenue to us ; but my belief is, that ultimately, through the increase of communication, we shall be gainers. I should mention that the convention in question is founded on an Act passed in the last Session, by which his Majesty was authorised to allow a free transmis sion of foreign newspapers from any country which should agree to receive ours on the same terms. In pursuance of it, also, a reduction in the amount of postage between the two countries is to take place. The duty on English newspapers going into France is fixed for the present at a very small amount—being four centimes, or less than a halfpenny, and it is expected that even this will be given up as soon as the sanc tion of the French Parliament can be obtained to such a mea sure. Upon letters the reduction will be considerable. Hi therto the postage of a letter from Paris to London was 2s. ld. ; henceforth it will be but Is. Bd., and the postage from London to Paris, heretofore 2s. 10d., will be reduced to the same amount-Is. 9d. This arrangement, as I have already observed, will cause a temporary decrease of revenue under the head of the Post-office ; but I feel quite confident that the in creased number of communications consequent upon this re duction of postage will, ere long, more than compensate for that deficiency. I have only further to state in connection with this subject—the Post•office, that by the alteration made in the system of contracts for mail-coaches, we have been able to effect a saving of 12,0001. per annum, and that other sug gested reductions shall be attempted by Government, if, upon due consideration, the practicability shall be made manifest.— ( Hear, hear.) I believe I have now gone through the various heads of Revenue. Mr. GOULBURN—You have not stated the estimated amount of the post-office revenue. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I will take the Post-office at 1,540,0001. ; but that will be under the amount, if the French Parliament shall agree to the further propositions now being made to their Government. H av i ng now gone through the various heads of the revenue, I must entreat the House to allow me a few moments more of their attention while I go through some of the circumstances con- nected with some of the alterations which have lately taken place in the domestic policy of the country. I do not think I need trouble the House with respect to the existing pros perity of the manufacturing interests of the country. This is a natter which I shall take for granted ; for a knowledge of the state of the manufacturing districts must convince every one who hears me that there is now an active demand \, for labour avid machinery, that new works are in progress, and that on all sides there is a call for more hands. Ia the case of the hand-loom weavers especially, there exists now a great demand for labourers in different parts of the country.—( Hear, hear, hear.) These, and other circum stances of the same nature, are too well known to the public and the House to render it necessary that I should dwell upon them.—(heir. ) There are, however, sonic few facts upon which 1 feel called upon to say a very few words. It must be obvious that a better indication of the existing state of the country, and of the general prosperity of the peo ple, cannot be found, than that afforded by a return of the number of persons who have of late years claimed freedom from their debts through the operation of the Insolvent Act. Now I have the satisfaction of being able to state that the reduction on this head, which, with so much pleasure, I re.. ferred to last year, has proceeded farther, and that if it is allowable to form an opinion of the future by the past, there is every reason for satisfaction and congratulation. I hold in my hand a return of the number of persons discharged as insol vent debtors between the years 1832 and 1835, both inclusive. in 1832 their number was 4,648; in 1833, 4,583 ; in 183-I, 4,275 ; and in 1835, 3,890. Here is a gradual and most satis factory decrease, and my confident expectation is, it will not stop here. I must now take the liberty of reading an extract from a letter I received lately from one of the Judges of the Insolvent Court, lately returned from a Circuit, which aisa gave most satisfactory evidence in relation to this point. The letter was dated 4th April, 1836, and was in the following words:—" In the clothing districts of Gloucester and Scem r set very great improvement. No case of the insolvency of a master or weaver on his own account, where three years ago there were several. A general prosperity observable in the buildings of country towns and villages. In the manufactur ing parts of northern and midland counties has frequently ex pressed in court his congratulations to the county that hardly one case occurred of the insolvency of master or weaver, es pecially noticeable at Nottingham and Leicester, where, on former occasions, the number of failures had been consider able, and the character of them fraudulent." I have returns to the same effect, and equally satisfactory, from Ireland ; which, in point of commercial prosperity, seems to stand its ground quite as well as England.—(Hear, hear.) But the most material improvements—those which are most important to the House and the public to advert to—are those improve ments which are commencing in the agricultural parts of the country, by the alterations effected through the medium of the Poor Law Bill.—( Cheers.) I must say, that at first I could scarce) , believe that it was possible any legislative measure could come into such immediately beneficial action as has been the case with respect to this Poor Law Bill. I know well it has been aided by adventitious circumstances. I know, for in stance, that its effect has been hastened by the general state of the country, by the demand for labour, by the low price of provisions, and other collateral circumstances—( I state this because I think the case is strong enough without them, and because it is not the interest of any Government that the working of its measures should be viewed through a false medium)—but I say that the Poor Law Bill does not require these adventitious circumstances to show that it is likely to exercise a most important and beneficial influ ence upon this country's prosperity. In proof of this my position, I will take the liberty of reading a return which has been furnished to me, with a view of contrasting the existing working of the poor-law system with that of the sys tem which the present displaced :—Taking 311 unions, inclu ding 6,676 parishes, I find that the amount of rates brought under the guardians for the December quarter was 3,368,879/. Opposed to this, I find that in 122 unions, the rates, on the average of three years, amounted to 1,258,867/. Now, the expenditure of the quarter ending December 31, under the oldlsystem, was 314,717/; under the new system, it appears to be but 154,888/. Under the old system, the expenditure of a year amounted to 1,258,867/. ; under the new, the esti mated expenditure is but 619,553/. ; showing a reduction in the one year of no less than 49 per cent. This return, I should observe, is not drawn up from any particular class of parishes : the calculation is made as well from parishes in which, under the old system, great abuses prevailed, as in pa rishes which under that system were the best managed. In the Uckfield, Battle, and Midhurst unions, the reduction has been more than two-thirds. In the Uckfield union, contain ing 16,000 persons, a few days back there were only four able-bodied labourers out of work. I should mention that the March quarter has fully confirmed the former statements and results. The reduction in the worst districts being 59 per cent., and in the best, 20 per cent. Now, for my part, I be lieve that in these returns we have the best practical evidence that the condition of the agricultural labourer is on the im provement, because contemporaneous with the reduction of rates, we have it in evidence that there is an increased demand for labour, and especially for piece-work labour.--(Hear.) I now come to another topic, namely, a reference to the re turns from the different savings' banks of the country. I adverted to this subject in the course of my financial state ment of last year, and it will now suffice to say that great as was the increase both in the number of depositors and th e amount deposited, there is now to be found a greater increase. There was another feature in the - state of the country which also in an eminent degree proved the ameliorated condition of the agricultural labourer—he alluded to saving-banks. They had been adverted to on a former occasion, But the improvement which they now presented was most remark able, as he should show, for in the past year the number of depositors was 35,528, and the amount which they invested was 990,790/., although by law they were restrained within so narrow a limit as 2001. in the whole. That the prosperous condition of the country was proved by the flourishing state of the sß , ..in,g-bank, and the vast alteration that bad taken place in the poor-rates, he took to have been demonstrated ; but there yet remained other sources from which to establish that most important and satisfactory conclusion, and there was one of those to which he could not advert without dwell ing upon the marked ground for congratulation which it offered. He alluded to the returns made to the Home-office on the state of crime during the past year ; during also the time from 1820 to 1829, divided into periods of four years each, and from 18 9 9 to 1833, and thence to the present time. In the first four years of that period the number of capital punish ments was 372 ; in the second four years it was 229; in the third period of four years it was 230 ; and in the last four years only 155. The House would thus see that that descrip tion of punishment had been reduced by one half, or rather more. Those returns referred to the country at large, but there was one most important portion of the country, and one which, in an especial degree, was indicative of the general ha bits and circumstances of the population generally, and more particularly so with respect to their pecuniary condition, and that was the returns of crime and punishment in London and Middlesex. From the year 1827 to 1829 the number of capital punishments in London and Middlesex was 63. From that to 1832 they were reduced to 16 ; in 1833 they were only two ; in 1834 there was not one; neither in 1835. Than this analysis could there be anything more satisfactory? Cheers.) Not only had the number of capital crimes of late years diminished, but all crimes in connection with vio lence had proportionally diminished. Could there be any state of things more calculated to encourage us in persevering in the course of legislation in which we have commenced ( Cheers) ? Now, before I bring back the House to the ques tion of the surplus revenue, allow me to remind Hon. Mem bers of a few events not wholly unimportant in the considera tion of the subject upon which we are engaged. In looking to the burdens of the country, it is but right to consider that many of those burdees which press the heaviest on us now cannot justly be considered in the light of perpetual burdens. Many of them are the result of war, and of the great establish ments which war compelled us to keep up—such, for instance, are half-pay allowances and pensions for military services, all of which now are more or less in the course of reduction, while many were on the brink of total extinction. Now, the House may be interested to know the reductions of dead weight in regard to half-pay, Chelsea and Greenwich Hospitals, the army, navy, ordnance, and civil pensions and superannuation al lowances ; with this view I have caused a return to be drawn up, which I shall take the liberty of reading to the House. It is as follows : REDUCTION OF DEAD WEIGHT. HALF-PAY, CHELSEA, GREENWICH, ARMY, NAVY, ORDNANCE, AND CIVIL PENSIONS, AND SUPERANNUATION ALLOWANCES. Diminution. Chelsea.—Maximum of numbers, 1828 96,844 Number 31st March, 1836 84,960 11,884 Grants Ditto 1835-6 1,387,169 ------- £181,683 Greenwich Out-pensions.—Maximum, 1817 32,278 Number, Ist January, 1836 19,489 12,789 Amount of Pensions 1835 252,563 £102,085 Army Pay-office Allovvances.—Maxi mum 1835 16,288 X 3,235 Army, Navy, and Ordnance Half-pay and Pensions.—Maximum, 1827 £3,394,896 1835 2,913,763 --- Naval H a lf- pay an d Pensions.—Maxi- -- ' E ' 481,133 mum 1823 £1,675,358 1835 1,557,976 Half-pay, Pensions, and Allowances, £117,382 Naval, Army, and Civil._ Maximum 1835 4,976,729 £ 479,262 I have already stated to the House, that but for the debt which as an act alike of justice and policy the Parliament contracted with the West India planters, we could at the present moment have called on, not to discuss a surplus of 662,3301., but of two millions and upwards ; and before I leave this part of the subject, 1 shall just read a statement of the data upon which I arrive at this conclusion. FINANCIAL CONDITION OF ENGLAND IN APRIL 1836, HAD THERE NOT BEEN A WEST INDIA LOAN, NOR AN INCREASE TO THE NAVY. Surplus April, 1837 Interest on Rothschild's Loan L. 208,000 Excess on Navy Estimate 400,000 Reserve for West India payments within the year ......... 1,719,863 L 2,382,1 93 I shall now proceed to state to the House how I propose to deal with the surplus I have available. I cannot at once pro. pose the repeal of 662,3301. of taxation, but I shall end eavour to propose s uc h an arran gement to this House as I thi n k i n point of justi ce ma y b e made, and I thinkin point of policy will be made, a n d made on a principle which -ill entitle y ou to give further r e ducti o n a t a future time. My object has b' en, s uch a and I think I have bee.] ab!e to achieve it, to make present year, se lection as, thou g h i t ma y oc casion a loss in the will lead to a futu re i ncrease i n the revenue. In doing so , have a surplusve 100 l could narrowly bbest a at applied.t e description I should of the say t , a x n e w s to in s ;ALI i e c e l: that if I find a tax pressing hard on the industry hie .ro3Cell. country—that if I find any particular tax on w • enabled the dons were of necessity daily instituted—which em: smuggler to defraud the fair and honourable trader—and unequal further, Sir, if I find a tax which is in its nature mcl of the and imperfect, if I find a tax of such a character that it leaves.l.o the individual on whom it is imposed doubtful how much he ought to pay, and leaves the individual by whom it t int .3 1 ie collected doubtful how much be ought to receive, t tax which I should select as one that it must be desirablce repeal. Now, Sir, there is a tax, which after the best ,co, n u. t i. deration that I have been a bl e t o give to the subject, se in ~ a ve rn:e to ans'.ver all the conditions and qualities which I h enumerated. It is my intention, therefore, to propose to the committee to adopt one of the recommendations of the s of Excise Inquiry for the consolidation and reduc tion of the paper duties.—( Hear, hear.) It is my intention to propose that those duties be reduced in amount one-haif (Hear.) Nor do I anticipat, , that by this reduction the re venue will by any means sufr.u. in a proportionate amount. fur I perfectly agree with the opinion which was on a recentor for Lancashire, expresssed by my Noble Friend the !.'emberf Lancashire, that there was no branch of industry in the coun try which felt more deeply the pressure of taxation than t • trade, and that there was no branch of industry prepare d e to rise with a greater degree of elasticity from that depres sion.paper At present also the collection of the paper duties ? 1. 1. carried on in the most unequal and unsatisfactory manner, in consequence of the irregular and imperfect way in which th e several kinds of superior, and the several kinds of inferior pa per are classed. It frequently happens, in consequence of that classification, that the inferior kinds of paper are subjected to to a higher duty than the superior. Indeed, such is the ab surd state of the law on that subject at present, that no two excise officers do, or can, administer it on exactly the saran principle. Thus it not unfcequently happens that the paper in one mill is charged by the collector with a duty of threepence per pound, while the same description of paper in a neigh bourim, mill is charged by anoth e r co ll ec t or w i t h a duty of only three' halfpence per pound. The duties are exhorbizant. That on writing paper is 25 per cent. ; that on printing paper 53 to 00 per cent. ; that on coarse paper 70 to 200 per cent. It is essential to this great and useful branch of our manufac tures, and it is no less essential to the general interests which are extensively connected with it, that these anomalies and evils should be put an end to. I repeat, that on many subjects of the highest public importance, the present duty on paper presses most severely.—( Hear, hear, hear.) Ho nourable Members must of course be aware, that the duty on the paper upon which it is printed, enters very largely into the expense of every octavo volume that issues from the Press. But what will they say, when I tell them that with which, probably, few among them are acquainted, that whoever publishes a volume obtains no drawback of the duty on the paper for the copies which remain unsold ; and that therefore it becomes necessary, in self-defence, to cliarge such a price for the copies which are sold, as to obtf,in from them the means of defraying the expense of the (1 - .lty on the paper necessary for the whole impression. The cost of the paper of books is thus augmented; not from 50 to 60, b ut from 100 to 180 per cent. This duty, therefore, may be justly described as inflicting a severe tax on literature itselt—( Hear, hear.) At present the rate of duty varies on the different de scriptions of paper. Either we must substitute a fixed duty, or we must retain the existing mode of classification, with all its frauds, inconveniences, and irregularities, such as I have described them. I prefer the former; and I propose, there fore, to equalize the duties on the superior and inferior classes of paper to three-halfpence per pound. Various calculations have been made of the loss which may probably arise from this arrangement. Mr. Gausson's estimate of annual loss is 150,000/. ; that of the London deputation, 62,0001. Those esti mates, however, do not appear to me sufficiently high. I take one still higher ; and as I mean to propose the abolition of the duty on stained paper, I take the loss to the re venue from this source to be 125,0001. this year (as the re duction will not commence till October), and 250,000/. a year in future. As to the duty on stained paper, I p ro pose its abolition from the conviction of its inexpediency, ope rating as it does upon what there is every reason to believe would soon grow into an extensive export trade if it were liberated from the financial shackles which at present restrain it. I fix the period of October for the commencement of the reduction of the duty, because by that time the stock in hand will be got rid of; for by the existing law the paper manufac turer may continue to make the commodity without paying the duty, except as the paper is taken out of the mill when wanted. Sir, I have already stated that a loss will accrue to the revenue from the Post-office treaty with France, in conse quence of the reduction of the postages on letters and news papers. This loss I estimate at about 20,0001. But, in re turn, the commercial correspondence of this country will ex perience considerable relief and benefit. And it must also be remembered, that if we had not made the concession which we have made to France on this subject, France might have reverted to her transit duties, and insisted on her right to be paid the differerence. It is not, therefore, altogether a loss of duty. By an alteration in the system under which the probate ' duty is now paid on wills, and by gradually resigning a credit of 100 000/., to which the Exchequer is not entitled, a loss to the revenue will accrue, which I will calculate this year n-t ° 0 • 0 0 111 But that o , ight ..t t,l 1 G .ha.a...erisea as a loss ; for it is not our just possession. It is a reduction to which the country is entitled. There is a small branch of customs called the South Sea duties, which I propose to abolish, and which produces about 10,000/. a year, or not so much. I now come to another branch of my proposed repeals ; and I fear when I mention it, I shall be met with the dissent of two opposite parties. I allude to the Stamps on Newspapers.—( Hear, hear All I ask is, that Honourable Gentlemen will do rite the favour to listen to me for a short time, while I explain._ the nature of the alteration in the Newspaper Stamps, which it is my intention to propose. There are, as I have already stated, two parties in this House altogether differing in their senti ments on this question ; and 1 am desirous to represent to both parties the situation in which the question stands. To those who desire the total repeal of the Newspaper Stamp-duty, I say, can they seriously ask a Finance Minister, after such a statement as that which I have just made Of the public receipts and expenditure, to absorb 400,000/. of the small surplus in such a purpose? If I were disposed to -acqui esce in such a proposition, is it probable that the House would accompany me in the acquiescence? lam of opi-aion that it would not. And further I say that if the House were s o dis posed, I am not disposed to make the proposition.—( Hear. ) In the first place, becanse I consider New.spapers a fit subje ct for taxation. Whil e we p erm i t t h em to be conveyed all ove r the country free of p o st age , we h ave a just and legitimate right to subject them to such taxation as we may consider fit and expedient. And further, lam persuaded that, in the pre sent state of public opinion on the subject, if I were to bring forward such a proposition it would prove wholly ineffective. -- ( No, no.) An Honourable Member exclaims " N o , nor Let him try the experiment. Let him make a motion to re peal the entire Stamp Duty on Newspapers. Let hint bring the subject under discussion. Let him ascertain whether, 1111 the present state of opinion on the subject, he can prevail on, the House to agree t o a reso l ut i on for applying the su m 491 400,0001. out of a surplus of 600,000/. to the abolition of t he Newspaper Stamp Duty ? On the other hand, I adhere to the opinion which I pronoun ce d on t h e quest i on i n the last se ssion of Parliament. I think that the present state of the tax:ale rt of Newspepers cannot be defended or maintained. The pr t). position on the subject which was brought forward by an Hen. Gentleman last year, I th en state d I thought was one wh i ff on a future occasion it wou ld b e expedient to adopt ; se e have, therefore, a right now to ask the House, if not to sup port, at least to consid er my p l an. A re those H on. G e ntle men who object to the reduction of the Newspaper Stamp' duty to a penny, aware of the way in which things are g°7 l on with reference to th e su bj ect ? D o they know t h e posits u t in which those wh o up h o ld t h e ma i ntenance o f t h e p etcn duty are placed. Ido not say Government, for that is coinP__! .. ritively an unimportant consideration—but the law, the se n e% rity of property, the interest of the revenue. It is on rev . e e u ct grounds that I ask you to reflect on the subject ; for my 0 , 1 11 .5 k is the preservation, not the abandonment of revenue. I. you to reflect on it with reference to the good order of si:eaeintye, Are you aware that there has been going on for a low; ti mer commencing in Lsndon, and spreading in all the great town s ll in the kingdom, an extensive sale of unstamped NewsP a pers, printed in defiance of the law, circulated defiance of the law, bearing on their face that they printed and so circulated in defiance of the law ? Convif tions have been obtained, penalties 'nave been imposed, imprisonment h as b een inflicted, all the p o wers of the !, have been p u t i n f orce and exhausted to put down this __ le practice, a n d t h e resu l t h as b een a st i l l more extensive sale and distribution of these illegal publications. Hon. G . enli c i men will, perhaps, do me th favour to believe me, we' d n op. assure them that one of the most painful parts of my du, ing the time that I have had the honour of being in s ir part of my duty which has brought upon me abundant oo. 0 (1„ 0 / and reproach, a portion of my duty which has exposeat me t° virulent att-cks in this House, and still more out or this House —has been the prosecution of the persons eorroaned sale of the unstamped newspapers to which I have interestedina. I have been in communication with persons ;;he most :i in this question—the proprietors of stamped newspePe9;ake they candidly admit that every effort which the law could not been has been made : but that, unfortunately, the law has i 9 found sufficientlz powerful to put down the evil. And tv7, t ,. e , the reason of this ? That the temptation to the violationt_Loua law is too strong. It is so whenever, by excessive taxation,.racipanro:sf endeavour to obtain any particular object. You tried to illicit distillation in Ireland by laws fit only for the Turkey ; but those laws proved entirely tionablY never expect to maintain any duty which is dispropor yoU will high. Adopt whatever means of protection you mav ' d I s it always, under such circumstances, find yourselves folic° endea vour therefore, a matter of good sense in all cases that Pr o p er your to fix the amount of duty on any article at en ineffective.meYou can rate at which it can be maintained ? What is it to aypr as that from such a diminution of the newspaper stamp d Lithe loss Of which I propose ? A loss of revenue ? revenue is ropily going on as it is ; and if w.(7dhoy,n_o_t..d.simnaipnelsril. the duty, we shall lose the revenue derived from ne." r duction, Itr h this source has been in a constant course of re stamps entirely. For several years the revenue clerived,f,lr_evnia here a paper which I will read to the Committee, shows the fact clearly : Gross Revenue. DUTY ON NEWSPAPERS -1831 £586,000 ........... 4 73,000 1832 1833 541,000 ............ of all 1834 537,000 . N x e t 4 R 8 3 e , v o e o n o n e have no doubt that there are, both in t he House and out I !E The lie( red Cat 4 4‘i, h 1,4,