The Sun. — London, England, 1808-03-01 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PA R_4l/IMENI HOUSE 01% PEERS, MONDAY, rEB. 39. Counsel were finally heard in the Appeal, Craw -1 furct.v. Sheddon, &c. after which the Lotto-CuAN . , CELL9Ii appointed Thursday .to deliver judgMent. The on the table were advanced in their re • spe6tive stages. LordHAWKESIWRII delivered . a`Message froth his Majesty, similar to that sent to the Cominons, spiaing the Annuity to be settled on 'the present . Lord Viscount Lake, and to the two next heirs to the\ title. The Noble Secretary moved, that his Majesty's Message be taken into consideration to-morrow. Lord AVCKLANL, referring to what' passed in a _ former debate, wished to be informed what was the , date of the receipt of the Treaty with America which was received in that Country he understood that it , was not received till the 13th or 14th of March, a circumstance which it was material to be acquainted with. Lord HAwKEsautty could not exaCtly say, butle would recur to the Dispatches. Lord HOLLAND gave notice, that on Thursday sennight he should bring forward a Motion respect ing the general policy of the Orders in Council. ORDERS IN COUNCIL. On the Order of the day' being moved, Lord ST. JOHN rose to make his protniqd motion for Resolutions to be adopted by The House, declaratory of the impolicy of these tneasures, and the absence of every ground on which they couldbe supported, particularly as they went•to affea Ameri ca. As this Subje& has been agitated again and again by their. Lordships, and as no new argument or il , luStration has been offered upon it, we think ,we should tire, indeed disgust, the public with a repeti tion of the same topics. We have therefore only to observe, hat the. noble Lord, after contending the . Orders in Council were'a violation of the law of na tions, and a dere,loion of the principles which held the Constitution and the Character of the ~B ritish Nation high and respeaed in the eyes 'of the world, .concluded by,observing, it would be -as contrary to , the interests as derogatory to the honour of the cowl, try, to put them in force against America, who had not acquiesced in the Decree of the Enemy, and against whom the Enemy had ,not enforced his De cree., Of five Resolutions which he had to move on' the subjeti, he should first move the following:— That . it.is the opinion of this HouSe, that no.in - - formation haS.been received , that the United States afArnerica had, up to 11th' Nov. last, acquiesced in theinjustice of the French Decree, or that the French GOvernment ,had enforced it against the United . States." - The .Duke. of NoNntoss contended, that .the Ortiers ,in Council were no more a violation of the law of nations than the Order of the 7th ofJanuaty, • 'isseil by d:Noble Lords opposite to him. Lord LIOLLA.ND went exactly over the same ground . of argument already urged by. the,Neble Lords in Opposition, to vindicate their .own Order, and to affix the charge on the present AdiuMistra t lon. • • Lord MULGRAVE entreated the House to bear in mind, how, day. after day, the Noble Lords came, down, splitting and dissetaing this saute question into separate and minute parts, as if their object was to distract the attention and waste the time. which his Majesty's Ministers were hound to dovi46 to. the duties, of the ardaws situation in which they • were placed under the present circumstances of the Country. If their object was, and he could see no other, to get, into power themselves, .wily not im mediate))' address hi, Majeity's Ministers, and not thus appear to be ent4cing . the. arguments, and . joining .in the cry which the cotninon enemy was endeavouring to raise against the character and cots ' dint of this Country. He then ably deteuded die measures in question. 'Lord AuCKLAND contended there' was every rea son to cry out against' Ministers, .wl.#o were blindly preciPitatiog the country. into a war with America, than Which, in his din-science, he did not believe a more serious evil could befall the nation. . Lord 1.1.0,11.a50,11.,E argued, at much, length,-to prove: .the objea and tendency of the ( dve3 in Council were contained in the preamble of 't Order of the : 7th of 'Jai-teary, and that they proceeded exactly- on' the same principle of re tait,,ti iii. Lkuotittris.ce aperteil, on : the other hand,. th.it the Order of the 7th of Tanuary by no means, opernte on the principle of tetagat ion ; :that, it waS perfedly contbrimibleto , .the estak,lislied .haw of nations, a,nd, the , distinCtions,of the Learned and Noble Lord were *tided in sophiStry.4 ' The Earl of WESTM,nIt;.AND shewed, that, the .or . ders of Council were strictly legal, and justified upon eery principle* policy, necesiity and justice.,. Earl GttEY at' '.red uponprincipleS si.nilar to:those advanced by the Mover and Lord Laudt...rdale. .Lord, 1-I . l,:wkrfirinttlr entered . into a full explank tion the principlesOf the Orders, as has been al ready adducted. • . Lord I,,;BP.NiriLin advanced his former .argurucnts upon the sobjol . sopport of the,motion, ,The EarI'oIGULOWAY supported the Orders of Council ; after, which a division was called for;when: thire appeared , For Lord Si. John's Motion.24—Proxies . 23-47, • Against it - 60,---proxiiii, 7 f.... 437 Majority for Ministers . . fjo. Adjourned at Two o'clock, . HOUSE OF CO,IIMONS. MONDAY, FEB. c),9, The SrE.tt:Eit informed the flOuSe, thin he had r-,c,,,ivt:41 a Letter front the Deputy Clerk of the. Crown for Ireland, stating that a Petition had been lodged by, General liart.againbt the return of Colo nel Montgomery, for the County ol Donegal. The bald ectluon was ordered to be taken into cehrtidera tion on the ofAprit, at the same time with the other Petition respecting the said Eleclton. The Secretary of 'the Naval Asylum preFented a Copy of the Memorial of Dr. Keene, praying to De appointed Surgeon to that Om) LAK On the Motion of Lord CASTLE•REAGII, the House went into a► Committee on hit I.l4.ajelity's IVlebsilge with respect to a provision for Lord £4e. .1.02 V CASTLERE,IGII, in calling t 4 atteutiufl of the House ,to his Mej("‘sty's most gracious Message, brought down ,by Isitu on a .former day, trusted that the propositions he hid to offer in pursuance of that Message would find but little ditfereua of opinion as, to the propriety of 'acceding to it. When-his Ma je;,ty called upon :Parliament to 'substantiate those marks of iris Boyelfavotir tied approbation whichhe conferred upon distinguished naval, and military clt faCters, the House Of Commons always answered the call with promptitude and liberality. The teat. ion why this application was noemadeinunediately On'the intelligence of the service done ' and at the same time that the highest honour his Maje Sty could confer was bestowed on Lord ,Lake,., was, that Lord Lake was then absent in India, and icives not known that his circumstances were such! as to require the. aid of public. liberality. After the re turn of the Noble Lord, which was soon followed by his much lamented death, he received such marks of the favour of the Crown, and other distingeished, branches ofthe Royal Family, thet he felt himself in some measure able to support his dignity without public aid, and, he feltuhwilling to come .forward' with such an application as that which gave rise to his Majesty's gracious Message, now under consider ation. Hia country had now, by his unfortunate death, lost one of its Most valuable military officers, and on inquiry into Isis circemstances, they were found inadequate to support the hereditary honours iiis ,Majesty had bestowed as the reward of his ser vices. Thus while the'ael-vices were of that distin guished, nature as -to afford the strongestcleirteo Parliamentary reward, the circumstances of the fa s miss Were such as to strengthen ,that claim. Lord Lake's military life had been a succession of brilliant and meritorious a&ions, from the time of the Arne ricer) War down to his last campaigns in Itidiee Some of his Lordship's ads were such es to bring twine to him personally the whole merit of the success of some of the most distingeished victories gained, among which he was bound to particularize that of Li ocelles, byshe British arms. Never, in fadidid any man present to his• troops, in the, day of battle, more striking examples; of every quality that were calculated to inspire valour and lead to victory. The same prin ciple to which the . French Generals owed most of their victories in the late wars, that of exposing their own persons in every point of imminent danger and apparently doubtful issue, was eminently. coespicu7 MIS in Lord Lake's military condud: Whatever ditference of Opinion may exist with respe6.l to the . Policy - pursued in the recent Government of India,. certainly there was room for no difference as to the importance of " the services rendered' by Lord Lake its the military department. This would be particularly felt at the present momeot, when the French, Meditating ati attack-upon our Indian 'Em pre, were obliged to wait to establish aloothig, and to break ground in Persian instead: of cominenc ing at once on the banksolthd jutuna or the-Gan ges, with a Mabratta army disciplined and cons . mended by Freed) officers, To 'Lord Lake ,be longed' the merit of dispersing and destroying that army, and thus establishing the security of our Indian 'Empire on a basis more solid.. He did not think it -necessary to enter more at large on the' subject, as he felt ; that every one must be sensible of the value of the services of the deceased. He should also, to gavel he time of the Ceirenittee;:state now an-. other Motion which he intended to offer after the one fo - unded on his Majesty's Message should be dis posed of. This was a Motion for a monument :to be ereCted to themetnory of Lord Lake. He was aware that this, was a testithoity of public gratitude seldom, asked but when the individual fell - in battle; in the moment 'of victory, or died of wounds received in the Country's cause, But there were some few in. stances which were particularly. distinguished from this rule, and when repeated signal victories had, been gained without depriving the Country of the litie of the person wh . o 'had achieved them. Lord Howe's 'lifektf glory had been thought worthy of this dis' ritt6tion, and he trusted there..would be found equal grOund to make a similar exception in .favour of 'Lord Lake.. This was e, reward she most cheap, and an incentive the must powerful. He had , far ther only to add; ''that as it was 'just and customary that the pensions should Continence from the time of the' act that called for the exercise' of the royal prerogative ;and bounty, Lord - Lake's forbearance oin preferung his claim should be no bar to the. benefit being enjoyed from the date of the battle of none which he derived his title. This ex tension ,of the grant would Afford the' entente of Make ing some arraueastnents for the benefit of the letrade part of the family who, he wa's sorry to say, wereleft in e most unsatisfactory state. The pension of Sir Sidney Smith had not been -granted for two years after thaservice for which 'it was given; and the grant 'covered :these two: years. The 'hie, I.ord Lake having died before the ,application to Parliament could be nettle,' his life wasnot counted no one tif the three for which it was usual to grant proyisieris of this kind. The grant would be to the present Lord and the:two next heirs. He'moved accordingly that an anouity,ef,2oool. a year, .to commence 11'010 the Ith ,september, 1803, be granted out of the'con solidated find, to : thee present Lord Lake, and•the two next heirs, beariog that title, for tlui, term of their natural Itve.s. Mr. WHITBREAD felt - the unpleasantness .of opposing Motions of this kind, when,the .merits of individuals:, certainly of high charader, even in- tie opinions, of ti* who ,q4stioned the propriity of the proposed. reward, Were. te' be canyeasetle . • He admitted the bravery and eminent, services of Lord Lake, but' he could 'not 'sanction such a libel upon the whole tiritish prmy;as to. allow that he WAS the only General in it whoaded on the French priociple .f courting viably, by exposing hisiperson to every . danger; ,He'was persuaded that.. there werefew fteers :indeed, if any, in' the British army, who would not a& upon the same principle,' and that it was a charaaeristic prineipio Of the British army as. much as of the French. He contended that Lord ,Luke havines old lucrative offices, ought not to want Parliamentary aid. But if a gratit of this : kind Was necessary to keep the ' dignity of the Peerage from being sullied, certainly there w. 9 no ground whatso ever for dating the grant farther. back !belt' tote, pre sent time. To the grant of a monumenehe was. particularly averse, tlid not think any exc ought' be wade' to the rule of granting thi, ho nour only to _those who , died in battle or of wounds received in- battle. But certainly' Lotilltiowe -was much better entitled to such an exception than 'Lord Lake. MC. W. Crutits supP6rted the el.l4iis Gs the pets•L - siott.ttod the, montatitent. He ci.oi.glit it the-stroogeitt reeornimodation of Lord Cake, ticit lie had retianed from tiling one of theltighest oi-flees in Lidi roc t i el poor. `..3 , /r, Of. A. TeLYLOR at gued strenuously itt vourof the nxotion, and Liwit much on LOrd .gallant..cauilua. at.. Li 13r;.:11e4,.. and brat+nit- , and. , important viftories itt Itidi:i. Lord Laity, had lat but . 447,0001: to F.tipport the dignity of tlie title, dud to provide 'for a family of seven Children: If onie Pro. Vision was not to be made for the'farnifies of nie-1 ritorious officers, in , casesof this. they-ought -to be restritted. from marrying, like Catholic Priests.. The daughters of Lord Lake would havebut :,50011- each under their father's will. Lord CAsTt.Ett BAG If had .110 t: thought itnecessary to be so particular in stating. the narrow circtim-, , stances of Lord Lake's family; but he believed that in 661 these Ladies would take, under the will, 14.7 tle,more than half the sum Imntioned by the Bon. Member who had just sat, down. Gen..l. l 4m.wroN supported., the motion, and de tailed tire particulars of the storming of the trenches at LincelleFf, defended by ~0000 French troops . , by 1600 British,:. under Lordlake.,.. It .Was an addi- • tionatclaina,• that the -Nobleltird had returned from ' India in circumstances that formed a direa'contrast , with those in which LucUllus•retdrned from Asia,• and Massena from Italy.. • • • Lord FOLK STO NE opposed the -grant :he thought those who held places of.high protit,.withoutsaviog,l. had no rightto come to. Parliament for relief. He was particl - darlyadyerse to the grant °ea monument: Lord TEMP4E supported the motion, on the ground of the great services and honourable poverty of Lord . 1 Lake. . Mr. HoLssit susiN ER SPpported, the motion, And., wished even. to go beyond it.. Colonel . WOOD spoke it terms of high panegyric of LOl:4 . lttlse's eliaraeter and ser4ces. Mr. W. SMITH allowed the merits of Lord Lake he 'Could not reconcile the poverty pleaded, with. other accounts, which asserted that Lord Lai;. , : had brought.liotne.l4o,oool. from India. He • allowed , that Peers ought to be - made independent of, the Crown. • Si!' ARTHUR WELLESLE'Z Said it W A S well known that, Lord Lake had gone out to India gre:attylio debt. A person, bad;, in faCt„ gone out - with him, who re ceived all his emoluments,. and, .after , defraying his necessary and unavoidable expences, carried the re 'rtainder to the account of his- crechtors, whose. der . . wands were `clot satisfied till the year 1804. There were other debts also• settled since the 'Noble lira's' return, The, Noble LOrd had brought to this coun try not more.than .35 or 40,0001. The fomily estate was about 8001. a year; and was burthened with cumbrances to• the amOinit . of half that sum. Mr.•WiIITIIRBAD, in explanation, expressed the highest .personal respea for Lord Lake. Mr. lArsurt4G4orr wished the. arrear of 90oul. to be distributed among the younger children. , Sir F, Boar are entered 'his protest against the vote, In the present, slate of the. public burthetiti, be did k not, think Parliathent shoUld be cailed upon to make such grants. The Crown possessed: ample means of rewarding all military merit without com ing to Parliament. He would not say any thing to &Ira& Iron) thOmerits of Lard Lake; but let these merits be ever so great, ,they. were:but a small part of the question, (...;onsis,tently, vu'ith4a: due regard , to public econotuy,to felt himself compelled to oppose the Motions, and take the sense . of the House on them,. . _ _ . . . THEI CHANCELLOR of the FACHEQUER said, the Crown possessed no power ()fainter - ring adequate re-, Wards . and provisions without the aid of Parlianient. The highest pension that could be granted on the Civil List was 1,2001. a year, of which only 8901. clear, Would be received, and this the King ,could. grant only for, the period of his own life. He'supporto, the motion generally. General . GocotaNn spoke at large .on ;-,Lord Lake's- military .ctiaracter and services. qis. un bounded charity to the sick and Wounded, anci libtfrality to indigent officers, were / the chief eause9„ of his poVerty r • Mt. B cis, with every regard y for public eco nomy,. thought it impossible to•refuse this-gr,ant but he objected to the retrospective operation. of it. It was,.wrong,to.bestow Peerages , on persons who had not fortune to support the•dignity. Lord-Howe. was the single example of granting , snail a monu ment. Lord Duncan had not had one,: • Lord G. CAVENDISH supported 'the motion on the' ground of tiegeneral merits and• thestate of t4p fa g, . . I • • • • "111Y 'll 1e §ECRETART at W'Alt supported the „motion.' It was neeessary,to maintain h: and dignity, of. the Peerage, which.was, amqoestionably bestowed properly in this case. . TIVIA 1 Y maintained.. the •propriety 'of granting Parliatnentary provisionr—to meritorious Otlicets, and- was sure the people, of England, heavy as its burthens were, wouldcondcinn, .as misplaced, and--.ruinous economy, any retrenchment' of the usual liberality, on . Ow; he,i(l. The rewards the Vrown could.grant on the Cril . List were nothing, “thotiglrhe betieved the %nun may be extended'to the. life of the grantee, as well as that of thegrafitor. He hoped the klun. Baronet would not divide the. House on the first motion ;• hecoeld not at all agree to the grant of a monument. The grant of a inonu. meta to- Lord Howe ,vvas..blameable, .though he had certainly cl.titns to exception beyondany other marl; Mr. W. SNILTif, CODY 144(.:Cd by the. Nilsona'of his. Hon. Friends (Mr. llankes and IVir. Tierney), begged to retraa.his assent from the proposition of granting . montiment.. Sir F. BURDETT had heard nothing thatcould -in duce hint to desist from his intentioit . of dividing the House on, the whole proposition, The Right Hon, Chancellor of the Exchequer must havekuown even by looking round his Own that he alluded:to, other. means, of rewarding mentorious service than those the Civil-List-afforded., Where were' the sinet , cures, the . patentplaceS,,, and reversions •if IVli ulster's would come and stdte to theilionse that these' things were abolished, there would-be an •obli,.. , TAiow to grant ample, provision to every t n er i to rious,Ot;: ticer,: but whilethey existed, and were disposed of, nobody knew ißaw, nor for what service -16)6(74h 116 believed, indeed, the- Hight. Honotitable'Ciat.:: flea* opposite knew it), he could 'not alloW 'Parliament to .iway the public money-•.on every demand of this kind. He oould act Itotti, , stly, without regard to what any man, or any set-of men, I inn ti-riff;;. and 1.7 : e feltllmself bbund to persiat what was called liking the sense of the House, though the sense , of the House was already well known. • Mr. 13rptant.Pa spoke shortly, as we conc.:ved, ; against the motion, amid a . general call for thi question. For the Annuity - - 202 Agiiinet it - • , : Another Division. then took place . whilst...strangers were excluded, upow.the question relative. , to the period at which the Annuityz• to!'comtnence, whether (Aim the date of the Vietory bfi Delhi, hi . from the Death of .Lord,Lake:• For the former date . zos For the latter ' . • - • is Majority on each,illivision--tB7' MEDIATION. On our re-admission to the Giillery, Ave found Mr.WkfiTuaenn. on his legs, stating, that;' however indisposed he might betodo any thieg'Which would be 'personally inconvenient to the N'Oble l Lord oppo site. (Castlereagh);.Yet - when he considered the length• to ,which the discussion .jest ended had 'gullet and the, time that would necessarily_be occupied in the discussion•of-tho'Noble Lord's motion concern ing the .monument, upon which such a diversity of opinion prevailed, he felt himself under tile neces sitfof breaking in upon the connetaion between-the NObleLLOrd's motions, and subinitting :to the . House the motion of Which'he had given notice.-- But if the Roble Lord had any thing to offer by" Way of notice, het should !not! object 'to his doing that before, he '..proceeder,l to make the obiervalit)" with which he., meant to .urge the House to an ac- , quiescence in , his motion. pi rd . C.4STLEREA.G.H expressed 'a wish' that the Hot]. Gentleman should waive !his right in this instance, as it would be with regret he should sepa rate his motion from the t?usinesit that had just raked place ; and _besides' the .subjq& had' undetgoue so much.discuesion - , that-he- trusted his motion. would not give rise to any lengthened debate. WHITBREAD could itO . t give way, and therefOre prociededivith hismotion,-which he pre' t:tced-with a longkspeeeliV brief- outline of .which. the little novelty Of the argunienti induce us to sub-. stiiiite for a' detailed' iepOrt).. The •i-lati:Gentlernan .ihe inchxlgeoce of both sides •of the .Hausa - while he uttered his .sentiments which . ," from per sonal indisposition, he feared-he should not 'be able to deliver as audibly as be otherwise would,' and t; 1 e responsibility for which Ise took upon himself•alone- The Commissioners who opened' the-Session-had in their Speech made a most pompous tinnuncistion to Parliament, that w twit e- crisis-of -t e-fate-ef.t he Country. To the-,truth of this annunciation he as sented, aod thought-that no opportnnity 'should be lost, for averting that crisis, by eilduavoura to obtain for ? the Conntry the blessings of -Peace:, ,-.'l'his wet the way to. promote' the salvation. -of 'The -Empire; whereas, .a perseverance in the same Coiteciliitone, and temper, whiCh had been. pursued by'his jesty'sMinisters last Summer,. would accelerate We impending Crisis of the cottetry. It was with a view to this objeEt diet. he had (ranted die Ilsolutions with fsthich be meant to conclude.' . The Papers laid be fore the House by his Majesty's orders had been long enoughin the hands of the Members; and.at they- were not to get..any. more, it was•necesitary they should preceed• with those documents. Ihe iroting the Address did not preclude any Membet from deciding, according 'to his judgment, on the present question. _ The Petitions for Peace, which jay upon the table; - • were ones symptom'of tile pro.; s,snt•crisis, .!tit-crisis, , presented. without having been instigated lay persons of eminendo, as- formerly, they contained thei r genuine sentiments of the people); inlanguitge the Meat' respe.lful,. conveying s prayer (neat rho. , derate, add, .Vitli it concluding declaration- the most patriotic.: He: should ., 'not s have encourage& such Petitions, but he was glad to see them, necang ,be was-a fri6iid Co the right of the-people to petition tor thelemoVal of -their grievances. The hoidens' cif this description towards the close of the A t m:lit:4a war' had: brought., that , contest . .to a period, ;"14 !..tt the. petitions of the people:at the early : , verior" of• the last war had been attended to as ,alai ought, _the. present Crisis . would not exist.: These petttionsi , t la; Honourable.- Member--• con oetidA must -in tittle make 'such an - impresisien his M ajesty's M i aj L ity e; s ide l‘ a li io n u i l to te solve the prottra "4' i Parliametit, as wueld peace with France 'was possible. • He was was an enemy to, eternal war;and :be was . .a- friend' to' pone ' vitt ' .Vratice, if peace‘..coeld -be obtainetir It was ail AP' surAity to talkabottr , scurity in pewee; considered how Sovereigns violat e d :treaties, 'A kne e '., le would be secure 'if Made. •upon,:honourable wit"' Ministers 4tad-said, , that this . was •, now- a 'cleft"' th " war,-but had this Country any meites i>f compelling the enetny..to mote honourable terms:than AVO C" l4 of present obtain-.? We-could easily provide agaiPss any . uilexpead - attack in peace, and the 'native would get rid of the wasteful.expenditure -xybi 66 war like the present required:- He wished to disP‘' the clouds 'ot error 'that enveloped net 'only a large .portiotx of that House, but a very large Porti°"' the petiole of Ibi*.:Couesry, whoeuppsed chars no: gociation was impossible with Frabte;:•-•Orke Adam mistration had made.ilie Peace Of An tens,' Which that Administration afterwards bad broken another Administration , had entered into a .-negOciation tut Pear-e,without producing. that.bduent ; • and the-pre sent Ministers had. listened , to, ,offers of mediatioa 'without any. ego:Et,- so that the opinion of the . p ee # was that no .peace could'he made with 'France: -13 4i - .this - proposition' he denied.." The: Genoewio .beredetailed the events of the; last cittipaisn,Nvli ub led' - .to the separation - of itussia from the cause of!hit Colliatry, and contended that-the Peace-at 1,4•44 the Atalvation of the remnant of the RtlSSittli and that the 'Emperor of Russia was Coropelied / V : necessity to'Urge that peace. He next 'enteredit n l " an examination of the ccindu& of his MajelllT'i nisters; referring to the. Papersp . , to . she w that ilia Emperor.Of Rossia had been sincere in his deve to mediate a -pe4ce'between this Cotintry and Froice , . a mediation which lie- otfered. to Lord- G.:Levesen Gower even before the Treat:-'9f Tilsit had even concluded, addit4, that he would guarantee the Olt . .sbould-be so made _with the whole tore' of The Honourahle Isileinber • then to . `'. a view of the . objeels of the Coalition in Order to skew, that whiiat hii Ma . iesty's meet :was constantly deciiring, tbar-they fta , t ei• to view the attainment of a solid alio durable i , e3L'•, their aitti in that Coalition W'33 the destructien