The Sun. — London, England, 1818-02-12 00:00:00

- ari'lirriet,lc - al, prejudice, Ise would allOw,, which we had inherited ftom our forefathers, and by which it therefore would he j”rlians better at present to ratline. As to the employment of spies, a': had admitted the principle that it was, tti. uo a voi'dahle evil. The question was therefote only o , e of . atlllSe. Wllat ' else could Government do to detect ermspiracies, than •tti re 've informaifon leant whatever character, were able to give it ? Were they to ntalie it a rule to accept no intelli f!ettee but trout persons of the purest virtue Front the hnshand of one wife, the truest of friends', the most independent of men, who was "i io t e v en bound by the duties: of a profession, but Could give all his time to the detection of conspi ricie., for the good of his conotry?—{Latighter.) In this' age of monsters, such a n3iin of unsidlied tio; Soch a faithful huch3ll , l and trite 'ft irnit, suet) a disinterested and fervent pa triot, ‘vonlci himself be a monster, if he e\isted at all.--•.(Laughter.)- , -Aud if ccmipit cies were to. ha'vtf head until such a character should he found ro detect them; . the poor country would not be far from that refitted state in xyVielt the bloodyphilOsop het s 'a the ,I Srh century ed to place lier.—(Lfear, hear !)—Stippose'an characteT ittform that . there i, a plot to . t4lic the his intelligence ' must first be tieated kvi It ridicule. Should he-an- • ' pounce intended murders,—" Oh; it's impossible, e"nwhere lb,. means i" Should lie say, !‘ •lliove it to you," he intio he answered," pray, bow tnnny ch'ddren have you ?"—(Laughter -Ff " !low inAny wives r' " I had one, hot she ran an ay Fuunue years ,shire; and I have -: t atM. her woman." " What, 'you 'wretch, '• do you pretend' to be believed ?---•--do • you dare to intoriont on, von, whom we si rm/gly • sn.s: , e'elt to he a . bi ,, amist ?-;,*et •off froth) ottr sib llt, 10 , are unworthy of tredit . ."---(PeAs latighter.) n plan v , muld hethe best bank: possible agni! , st polygamy. (li‘Ottei ) hut it w0.,1 . t1 dn nothing to . ~ save the country. 1(01e flon. - Mover's . objcct Was 'to,firueliorate the connubial stare, - be shoil d him strongly to pet severe, and he might do !midi ' good in his generation.—(Laughter.)—Rut let' him not hope by'slich a plan to secure the safety at the Hie. He agreed that Government FilOilid not act on the information given by an indifferent •chiracter, Unlessit were conoborated. But was infatuation to be received or rejectetron the score of chlracter merely ? \ ll , 7 as it necessa7v that a man Shoolcl never hale been in drink, or in love with a wonnin, to be credited ?-1% respect to (Yiler, the motion-imputed no crime to him for which he was amenable to the laws, but the per - for mance of that odious and disgusting duty which he had undertaken fur the safety of the coun try. It was certainly impossible that, not his Is•ords and.revesentations alone, -hot his very ex-. ist e nee amongst the 'disaffected should' not have operated as encouragement.—The accession of a sin g le new face was an 'accession of strength, and thereltire tended to encourage. Neither could it be expected that a man who ventured amongst conspirators in disguise should not be obliged to tell them lies, to support his character. If the Alioisters had their option to detect conspiracies by renesi.ceptionable means, - or by the employment • of betrayers, they would tint hesitate to pref e r - th e first. Bot the question was, Whether they would employ the only means wnirh offer e d themselv e s, Or stifi,r ;he State to to to meek. He repeated t h e s t a rcn te r t t of an Honourable and Learned Friend of his, that not one human bein"; had bee n - dentired -of his liberty for an hour on the estimotfy of i ver.. They hail been taken up on t•-stitimony , tOtally *unconnected with hint, anti - to which 'he had served only as an index, and tit it in but few cases. As to - rite trials in Deiby,,,they•ilid nor prove that extraordinary 'measures had been necessary; but they proved that the genet al sritement on which those mea sures were founded was correct. On the whole,. lie thought that the House could have no Itesita ' lion in disposing of the motion of the Hon. Gen- If his object was the condemnation of Alinisters, lie had a slant ter method, as it had been javowed that none of the measures asked for 11:.(1 been adopted. Let hint make that his ground of impelchmen(. If he only wished to punish Oli ver, the' answer would he, that the anthority' to whi c h ltis rn,,tion referred, the Report of the,Se 7 cret 'Committee, assigned no crime whatever to that intlividoal. The l,liguage of that Report im puted an effect, and not am iutonioti, to the con duct of cerkain persons, and it. was nece>sary t o rime an intrution before an individual could be considered liable obe tried. He thought, there fore, that there was no occasion to push the finite to a division On - the. motion on the table, which, if carried, would canter on its, Drover and Supporters a task impossible to execute.—(Hear, bear, bear !)—Sir S. ItomiLLY explained. Mr. TistiNay observed, with respect to theal- InFion made to the expression used by an Hon. and Learned* Friend of his, that the House would not dare to act against its own_ sense of consist ' , ency, he recollected an thou. Gentleman Who, on a former occasion, had gone,noteh farther, whose words had hcen,taken down, and who had claret: to say, " If ,you persist in this line, we will ap peal to the. people !"—Thus, in 1807, threatening the Rouse witit . its dissolution', it it did not fall in svith the stews of the Ministry. It had been stated . that • nothing had been dune, be cause nothin g could be done. He was little of a lawyer,'s-•:t it was plain to him that if an agent en t ployed for a gOod purpose had acted for so evil one, he might at least he indicted for a tn i.d e n t eanot. But-Government dared not make such a propositirio. They felt that Oliver was sacred. They.coold not touch one hair of his he,md, neither .could they interfere with any of their spies'without the danger of exposing them selves. The Hon. Gent. had spOkeu of Oliver atsd Co. a commercial expression; which was equi valent to Oliver and self. He had also given a long dissertation on 'the nature of spies ; but all the secret of his arguments.lay in time employing the word spies, where others used that 'of infor it was necessary for Government to ob tat:i intormation ; but when the nelson sent tin that errand aeled as an incendiaty, he became a Itl4-rs. slitr,!re,,t\eliaracter, and tikOde to punishment. The Gentkniln lia .d eniressen his fear lest some Mon Members %viLo lidd entered Ike House since t 11 ,: corronewerwnt of - the debate should .have ii•ThetOiy in uuclerataudit►g the , motion; if so, it must hive been from the.levity with which a Minister of the Crown ha-1 been futon! g Iu jokes, and attempting to raises aronnrl him, when the awful stilt:jeer before the House ,e„ 9 , whether an Agent of the Government hail not' been the red anthor of all the cominotions. tie then 'reverted to the attempt at s' age elicet made by an Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Canuingl, in producing a letter which must have been lit the bag sulmiitted to the Secret Commit tee. Did he say "No ?"—Oh then, that hag did not contain all the:information. He now under- Stood that it was its one of the old bags.—The Geuttlernan had groped - about in them. and found a letter from Lord Fitz'+illlam, dated De- Ceitiber, 1816, in -which that Nobleman - gave what then appeared to him a fair view of the state of a panieular part of the country. On this the Hon. (irtitleman.said, what could the Government do but take Strong and immediate measures ? Ye: thOse very tneattres were not proposed till Feb.and tvonid no; have been even then, if it had not been for tie pebble thrown in the Park ; for the speech irons the l'hione intimated no such views on't be pittt of Ministers. But suppose this should' turn our to have been a must marked attempt to de- . ecive- the House and Country, an-I that another lett er-hatl since been written by Lord Fitztwii liam;; - contrai?ieting, the fonder, and assigning' his' reasons for doing so. Would it not ' have been-ther , duty of-that - Hon. Gentleman to read it But he had said ; ti-tat 'Lord Fitzwilliam, might 'have . chaugvd. his opinion when the danger was . past.• Lie changed his opinion when he had 'been !cut down to Yorkshire to •investigate the real state of the country. Let that letter he pro- Anced.- If -it were not in 'the presVnt bag - : the Committee . . were wilfully deceived: If that letter were not coommnicated, and' the Cirmthit-' tee -should report wit trout it, that Report•woubl delm!e the House arid 'the cOuntry.• Nay; itJtcas alter that letier had coutedtit ti ro ex - cite 41a rtn li ,attel deeltit e' the suspension Of the Habeas Corpus neces , ary.- If, instead of sending a manitoiinfliiine the minds (Attie dis affected, Jtr. Oliver Inutheen.instriicted. to show them-the folly of their Maps, would they, not hare been given op ?-= Oliver went among' them as a deiegate'froin London.' To' London all their hopes -wese,inrned. --These hopes Oliver en-' cOuraged. .NQW, if instead of encouragement hel,,.til told the troth, and said there was not a man in Lon'don .....outa assist 'theth,whO could doubt hut that' tile whole' eohsPiracy . Wank' . have fallen to pieces? All tho'deluded persons who had lt.en. imprisonett.ought to, have an opportunity of shewing, in what way and on what principles they had acted. If the second letter of Lord Fitzwilliani Was not in the hag re ferred to the Committee.the wholii Was a perfectjuggle. The prod uetitut of that. letter was due to that Nol4eL;;rd. The Right Honourable Gentlemen opposite might think that they had a triumph last night; and that' they would Imre an- • other triumph of the same kind this night. The•ease of the Learned Lord, which was last night,befpre the House,.wagjuot like that of M'Kinlay; the charge against him was not proven. But with this difference, that in M'Kinlay's case there was nothing to prove; hut in the Learned we re not case they not allowed to prove any ; thing. .The Noble Lord bad no triumph lasi night; his triumph this night would be of the - • .1 same kind.' The SOLICITOR-GENERAL and Mr. TIERNEY =Au 411v explained. ..... • . Air. CANNING said, that WWI respect to the letter of Lord Fitzwilliatn, .he would appeal to the recollection of the [louse whether, in the de bates last Session on the second Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, one of,the strongest ar guments against that Suspension was not the change of opinii , n in Lard Fiqwilliain ?—(Bear, hear !)---Mr. TIERNEY explainud. Lord MILTON said, that although letters from carious Lords Lieutenant were Jaid before the Secret Com:niltee, not one Inter trout the Lord Lieutenant of the West Riding of Yorkshire (Lord Fitz , viiiiaw) was laid before that,Com rnittee i—(;lear, hear !)—but be.,had gi% en notice in the Committee of a motion for the production of that letter. Lord CASTLEREAGH animadverted strongly on the unfairness oft Noble Lord• who spoke last (who (lid not seen► to feel in any deg tee hamper ed-by the Committee being a Secret one), in his statement,as to what passed ir; that Committee respecting the letter• of Lord litzwiHiam. The fact was. that the Noble Lord (Miltpn) having in , the Committee expressed an intention moving for that letter; haft, r►tt his (Lord C.'s) suggesting that it was not likely there would be any objection to produce it, agreed. to give, no. Ike of his motion as, for a future day.—(Hear, bear !)—The Noble Lord, therefore, had given a, very unfair 'colouti►►g to the circumstances relative :0 that letter. Ou the general question before time House. after the very able and unanswerable Speeches which had been made from his side of the notise, it Would be unnecessary for hint to trouble the House with any argument upon it. He there tote contented himself with protesting against the system of general inquity which scented now to be proposed trout the other side of the liouse. FAZAKERLY shortly replied. The House then divided For the Motion Against it Majority against 0? Motion..--53 Adjourned at One o'Clock this Morning. TO CORRE!iPONDENTS. iVe are azain obliged to No;praid many Favotirs from nut- Cor respondents on account of the length of the Debate. THY.ATRICAL REGISTER. DRORY-LANE.----AN ORA TORIO. COV ENT-GA RDEN.—No PERFORMANCE. • 'MAILS. ARRIVED-1 Dublin. DvE—i Waterford, I Gottenburgb, 1 France, 3 liamburgli, PRICK 9 • THIS :11,1Y AT r 3 per Ceflt. Red— 811 84 81 3 per Cent. C0n5....... 80444 4 per Cents 11 94 5 per Cent. N. 0n.....1(164 7 ; L. Ann . . .20i 21 Imperial 3 per Cent. Ann. 79i F STOCKS 'WELVF. o'CIMCK. India Bonds South Sea Stock Q;d Annuities b 0 HIGH IVATF.R AT LONDO, MorninK, 2I minutes aft er 7. 1 Exch. Nils 2d.. ;18s. 20s. pr. Ditto, ltd. 219. 255. pr. Coos. for Account-- . SOW IN BRIDGE TO-MORROW. Evening, 46 minutes after• 7. THE SUN. SOLNI Di ("I",fi E FA M ACI M.:AT ? LONDON, THURSD.IY, FEBRUARY 12, 1818. IVe received last night the Paris Tapers of Sunday last. Those of Monday, which were due this morning, have not come to hand. There is no furthcrintelligenco in these Journals from Al-' giers, but - the Muniteur has published all the de tails stated to 'nye Leen communkated to Sir SIDNEY SMITH, tvhich we inserted on Monday. The Recruitment Projet, as agreed to by the Chamber of Deputies, was presented to the King on Sattirdiy by the Pre , ident, zi,; the,four Secre taries of the Chamber. It was to,be,eocamoni- cated to the Chamber of Peers in the course of the present week. M. RoccA, 'whom Madame de STAEL, shortly before her death, acknowledged her. marriage with, 'died recently at Hieres. The. Madrid accounts in these Journals give the same account of the capture of "M"INA as that before published, namely, from the Mexico Extraordinary Gazette of the Ist of November FIVE PER CENTS. SAturday .. eh f. 75 c. After the copious account which we have this day given of the. Debate that took place last night fn the tionse•ot Commons, on the subjectof the Employment of Set es and IsFottmEaS, in order to .discover and frustrate the designs of REBELS, it is nut necessary for us to say much upon the subject-. We are not, as we have often declared, the servile Instruments of Ministers, but the. staunch Sup porters of the Principles upon which . they act, and we shall always support any Ministers' while they act on .such principles, and longer. The present Ministers, we sbleninly be lieve, have the interest Of the Country at heatt• measures which they. adopted to, save Country front the. efforts of :Sedition. and-Rebel hot; have been happily attended with' inccess.:-To return to the Debate. It Is ilifijcn't to recur to any period when any: Opposi; ion displayed_more inconsistency,' folly, and ..Harty animosity; But they were assailed by ridicule, argument, and fact, and tiny were fully defeated. We have only to refer to ti Speeches of Mr. CANNING, the SOLICITOR-GENERAL, Mr. C. GRANT, Jun: and Mr. IIATHURST, in,proof.of our assertion, :,Mr. TIER NEY delivered'. some of those scircastic growlings 'which mark his eliartiater a 3 a Political Orator. :Upon the whole the secret was revealtl by Sir SAMUEL ROMI-LLY, who observed;tbat " the House had not long tti lire."' 'I -hence tlie at tempt Of the Op position to obtain a little popularity, : by an osten tation of Public spirit, lest their Parliamentary existence should lie wholly extinguished by a Dissolution, As a proof Of the confidence of assertion that marked- the conduct of Opposition last night, 'obe . of them said that " THE PEOPLE . complained that Spies and Informeri excltedi, those disturbances on which, so much alarm was grounded." TH'E PEOPLE,* we believe, will dis-' dain such an imputation upon their common sense, and readily admit that the real complainants are. confined to the fragments . of such an opposition as was never exceeded in political degradation since' the origin of the Representative Body., We have more than once expressed our senti ments on the " Message of the President of the United States, of America, as being of an aspect hostile to this : country, although couched in:iptn guage-of affected moderation, and professing to have defence only in view in its naval and military recomtnendations. The more we consider the subject, the morg clearly we se.; in it prospective hostility to Great Britain. The progressive enlargement of their Navy, now that the European world is at peace, is a subject worthy .of se► ions . rt• flection to those who bold the, reins of Government in the United King dom. The clecep►ire arts by which. the Ameri c_►ns in; the late war. imposed upon .the world, and. impressed .those who were not professional men with a belief of their frigates having con tended with ours upon equal tetins, and come off vietorimpt, have been ably exposed by Mr..lamasi, in his valuable and interesting book lately p►ib-• lished, .which merits being ,u►ade the vude Accum . . of every Briton. . .. , • . The same arts are in preparation, respecting their line of battle ships, but asMr..lAmEs has pointed out the simple and rooOnsive means of detection, by bringing all to the test of arithmeti cal cornpatison, it is to be hoped that none but wilful dupes can be henceforth deluded by their false and self-conceited pretensions. . In estimating the real import of the late Mes sage, it must be brought to recollection, that the last.war was declared by America against us, and that we were so unwillingly forced into 'it,. that we could hardly be cousidered, for a long while, to be in earnest in its prosecution ; and finally, without availing ourselves of the ample means at length collected for coMpelling the United States to do us justice,. we . , unfortunately, made , peace, leaving important, points unsettled, and without obtaining real ,security and intlependance for our Allies the Indians, who had risked their ,existence in making a common cause with us ; and also without acquiring the needful ,barriers 'for our North American Colonies as a safeguard -against future aggression, which assuredly is only post poned to' a more convenient opportunity.' It is true, we stipnlated that . the Int.lians should be re placed in the same situation they. were in but the wax of the Treaty_wits scareely - told, be the Americans, in contempt ofthis compact, marched a military force into the heart of thein dian country, anti took up new positions to com pel them into submission to such conditions as they thought fit to impose. - The Indians have since been maltreated in a variety . of war, and t by ir land, in the Sonth and the West are pretended to be purchased from thetit by American agen..s, but the bargainThare li'dhlolo tdry only upon one side, 'as:threats of 'exP it ! ° ter ,, were used, it resistance to such usurptiol" t ritory,..einder the colour of sale, should beftia("'t Qiitireds with them are industriously, 9 we lsi after, - as grounds for thei r g r a d u al expno n wards, or eventual total extirpation, whi ch u s ; long been the systematic plait of the Ameri.,cit Government; and the pretendedattetopts tocivulo. and improve their condition are well; WO° be fine words used to impose .upon peq le 8 , t ,60 distance, but were. never otherwise acted ne,„ than as a pretence tordespoiling them of their 10(7, It however has been reserved, for the present rrast sident to throw off . the mask, and to avow ag 3iu t ,, the poor unprotected Indians a doctrine s (1 t :, principled, as to strike at the root of all proP er ' a t by declarin, ‘.‘ that no tribe or people krt' ve re right to withhold f rom he wants ofo i thers i ) , than is necosary for their %%VII Slipport 30 "T o . fort.'-"fhis declaration, considering o ur stil oo (ion at Ghent for the Indians, may be fairly. vi et" as throwing. down to us the gauntlet of defiiinc f : / , Another apparent act or &fiance, rvlrieb though. not e x press e d i n the Message, Y et h alt previously been deliberately undertaken, is kg sending the American frigate Ontario t° A lto possession of the Columbia River, w hich,..s t ' . :l, mouth and its source, was discovered by . 0111 1 . -1 Subjects, and in ma n y pla ces originally was , .now *holly is, in their pOssessi on , as has been t stated in an extract from The Morning Chrw lic i,"- :l The supposed pretended g ro un d f o r th ,i is f o r Miision, is an article in the abovesaid Tre a ,,`, Y l e id the restoration of Posts or. Plac e s respectiv e) J previous to the war, but %vithout decitliog the right-of , either to places so restored. ig it - .Now; by what ihocus pactis of interpretat i° , l) , ,e that the Columbia River, .on the N o rth west."' ° by of America, so discovered and so i n possess" )- t dcr British Subjects, can - be construed to come that Article., .when merely a Trading 1"0“ its mouth was surreptitiously once in the ocOlji.,, lion of private American individuals or adv crlt opr ers, and by _them sold In .I.:ritish subjects' made:the stipulated payment ; but neither o f Potrt,•• nor any putt of that River, was ever , 91. shy time previously or since, taken posseoi"" the American Government ? by cite Louisiana -never. did :or could e xtent" t eri utmost latitude. of boundary; beyond ` va i ong which fall into th e G t aph o f M ex i co ; a nd'n" t ' l4 , ol ‘ short of . American presumption (which ,, M r. '- ,53 ), designated as equal to true Corinthian bra could make;a question upon the suhjtet. We cannot conceive that our Government o f tamely submit to so barefaced att -ustirp 4ol 9o . :Ferritnry, so decidedly British• upon eve r) : 0 knowlt. dged 'principle, and the more especia l) ' eo tbe . usuak-forrns respecting restorations be tvi ,4 ,nations .have not been observed.. Thectownirs course,.is for the Govertruent claiming -a r egt ?, to (ion to obtain ,from the Government who . 0 4 give. hepossessionan.order tor the deliverYr a os . until that- is grAnted and produced, those O r d session :have an undoubted right to dela" • possession by force. . E IS Joe not- applying for or obtaining sa ck ip ,order, is its itself an avowal that the p la ce question. w as n o t cons id ere d as w ithin. , thf .view of the Treaty; and this omission consequeoo, more unequivocally tri4r4s th e h os tility Of the tario!s voyage and mission. „ Another measure alike hostile to us P r n„ e re is the fortifications erecting. on _the itumen7o, confines of Lower Canada, to facilitate frtfures& •vasion, and indeed in the States no se.cret i r fi tor the purpose of such military works on tilt: ft tiers ; and all this is dnne under colour of tie re r o u at a time when we have not only commen eel t o r• new works in the Canadas, but have given 0 P , a r, tiler - progress in those- begun during the late and_ which must soon fall into decay and Illi r "A In corroboration of this hostility of rubl d ' )to ut tb at the language held in Congress, which ‘ s ' . ; t his reserve points at the future devastatiou ol „ o n country ; and this passes With Out reproof , pretence of our having defrayed the public 1) 00 1/ Tugs at Washington, which was done by a s o in painful retaliation of the delib e r a te and o' 3 " t d i burning, not merely of public buildings, but towns in Upper Canada. In short it would be endless to enuttler a ", the symptoms of hostility whet eon our upi'''''' es • founded; but there evidently is a spirit of uggf ic a sion and encroachment manifested by the Urtr States against their neighbours, in a m anner 1 : 4 1 .„ to be disguised by fr4Athy allegations_or it tentions at, variance with facts ; and we ibi n dear, that these Republicans are aclue principles of aggrandisement, that Want is° {llil47 but time and opportunity,to t i e v e l o p e . d„ „ inse P b e ,; and which let - Juke to be watched by all °l ,: f e .Governments, and especially ours, as Laing n :„ 0 6 immediate:y in contact with their atub it '" projects. LAW INTELLIGENCE. COURT OF KING'S BENCH, THURSDAY, Fgs• gg' • • CHALLENGE. At the Sitting of the Court this day the Al 3°11 ; NRY-GENERAL moved for Judgment on AO .° 0' T 1.113 W TLEOOO, who had pleaded Guilty to 311 ; dietment for sending a Challenge to iSCOUnt SIDMOUTU. Mr. THISTLRWOOD rtt i from a slip of paper, that he had i na d v erte n ! , pleaded Guilty , and that it was his wish to %cit „ l , V draw that plea, and plead Not Guilty.—Th e TORNBY-GENERAL and COURT consented ; the defendant, not being prepared with bail, °li remanded.—He- will be tried at the sittings °ft r Easter Term. - - THE LATE MURDERS AT GREENWICIL—The COr ooer' : 1:1 .11 quest on the murders at. Greenwich met again vester"„'.;llo4 again adjourned, in the hope that before their ne% t "'„ pro' the murderers would be appreh e nd e d Th e eviden es ' on e. of duced yesterday gave a sort of clue for the detection ; 40; 0 the witnesse haying' seen a man covered with blood vs''6olite near the house on the Sunday morning. He gave a 4 e description. which it is hoped will lead to the immediate prehension of this'person ,ONION: Printed by..). B. CARSTAIRS, of No. t29 ' V . egt Ormond-street. Queen-square; and published In' SCRIPPS, of No. 7, South Molton-street, at 011;ce, No. 112, Strand ; where Ade v tisements, 4 -'" Letters, &c. (pun-paid) must 'at ddressed. .965. 975. pr. .0 N vi ,