The Sun. — London, England, 1810-12-28 00:00:00

5- , , fi r ict, , ~',✓ r • 1 'NUMBER 5709.1 IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. :~~. HOUSE OF PEERS. TIItYRSDAY, DEC. 27: STATE OF kilS MAJESTY'S HEALTI-I. . , Previous to the Order of the Day being regular' ly entered upon, and on the occasion of their °Lord ships' Order for referring the Report of the Coin , rnittee tbexatnioe the Royal Physicians, to the Com- Inittee of the wthole House; on the State of the Na tion, being read, • The Earl ot CARLISLE rose, for the purpose of calling their Lordships' attention to this patticular part of the_ subject, which he conceived dl consi derable importance. He briefly noticed the steps which had. been taken front the earliest period that the melan,choly situation of his Majesty had been Publicly known, to the present moment, the whole course of which, and the principle' on which the Conduct of Ministers proceeded, had his dee.ded disap .probation. In consequence of their repeated otnis- Lions to do that which the line of their duty pre scribed to them, they were now, after a lapse of five weeks, proceediug to do. that which the should lhaVe done at the e ery earliest opportunity, alter that great national calamity welch they all deplored had tak e n place.; they were now liegmiting to lay the foundation of that building, which, if they had dune their feat duty, not only to their country but to them selves, it would be' considerably above the grinith— Perhaps so far . advanced, .as merely to want the finishing hand to be-put to it. This would now have been the case did Parliament perform itsduty uphn this.i important crisis. Instead of it, the work was left to a Gorernment,whicleunder the circumstances, had no particular description in the constiOtion ; it Was in fact a species of usurpation. The , Noble Earl then reverted more perticelarly to the state of hishMajesty's health, the truth of which seemed to' have been long concealed. He gave full credit to the Noble Lords of Administration .for their relevant conduct ; they must have been -equally deceived with the rest of his IVlejesty'ssubje.hts. When tie looked Over the document which had 'just been regularly re ferred to the consideration t5l - their Lordships, and compared what appeared therein with some of the bulletins issued about the time to whieb he alluded, ' he must think it scarcely possible then that even , Ministers themselves could be acquainted who these lads, or they never could have c..ene down, the huddle of last nio hh, and held the language they did to Pailiametit, respecting the state of. his Majesty'-s health. But representatiotis from suet, quarter shoule not have been wade the ground ot Parliamentary proceeding; they should then ,have themselves inquired into the real state of the case ; and they shoeld' not have sutlered the exeeueve Power of the Government to remain in the hands it. has; against the plainest principles 1114.1 dietates of the Cons itutiote He repeated his idea, that Noble Lords in the Administration could not have beep ac quainted with the real state of the health of : their Sovereign at the time, or they never would have so ailed. He begged their Lordships to .consider what th e statements net& by Dpaors Willis and Heber den, respecting the state his Majesty, really were at the time to v hich he alluded. The Noble hart, here quoted certain parts of the report of the eyideuce of those Medical Gentlemen, which lay upon the ta, We, particularly where the former describes the Royal Patient to has ebeen, from the severity of the lever, in a state of great peril. This washibeut the 6th of November ; and when the latter stated .that one of the paroxysms apeeared so severe as to give the Physicians great apprehensions. for the safety of \ his life, he could not suppose that Ministers could have been acquaihted with the real state of the case, . and of the dangerous state.of his - Majesty, or they could never have raised hopes of his recovering so timely as to render it 'unnecessary, in ad probabi lity, for Parliament to take those steps which-were very recently adopted. The, Noble ,Earl then re ' ferred 40 - the language of the Bulletins, signed by Me- Physicians, which he considered very dit - ferent in their import from what the Physicians described to the Committee to have been the situation of his - _ Majesty at the corresponding pet sods. He con tended, that no man, from a perusal of those papers, -could have known the state the Sovereign was ac tually in at the time. Upon the whole, when he viewed this part of the subject, on which, apparent ,a degree of deleeion existed, equally injurioui and reprehensible, he thought, that as the accounts given through those ditlerept channels wete so ma terially coettadiclory, the best expedient for enis ing at the real truth, and the actual state ot the Stave.- reign's health, would be a re-examination of the Physicians; and a proceeding of this kind would be the more desirable, as these Gentlemen were inhigh esiimation in the world for their great professional . skill. He thought such a proceeding was due to the dignity of Parliament, and necessary for the informa-. tion i of the Pubhcat large, and as such, he would earnestly recommend its• adoption. The Earl of LIVERPOOL did not conceive it neces sary to trouble their Lordships with any observe tion,s, in ,cottsequeoce of w hat had fallen from the Noble Earl, farther than to say, that he, and those with ,whom he, had the honour to ael, were ready at any time to fully discuss and justify the line of con duet adopted, under all the circumstances to which h the Noble Earl had referred. He thought the dis cussion of such a topic would he highly irregular and itiopporiune in the. present shoe of their Lordship's' rat eed jugs ; he would therefore move the Order of the Day. ' . The,questiOn being put from the Wools'aek, their Lordships accordingly resolved into a Committee of the w hole House on . .. THE STATE OF THE NATION, And Lord WALSINGILA.KoavinE tAeti the Chair, the • Resoitatioes communicated ,by the Conattic.his were thou read by the Geri:, oe which - Tt 4 e Eari of LIVER oo;. rose, and said, " I now RI DA Y, feel myself called upon to address your . Lordships ,upon the very important subject 'nodes your cons sideration, and to call your particular attention to those Resolutions voted and communicated to us by the House of Commons, which yoti have just' heard read. Upon the first of these Resolutions, my Lords, I think at this time, unfortuoately r there can arise no difference of opinion. In discharging the painful duty impoSed ott us by the statement of the melancholy fad referred to in this resolutions I our persuaded it is impossible, to do justice to those feelings, by any attempt of ,mine to express them, wtth which we. are all actuated by so afflicting a circumstance. I 'canOot, \ however, help expressing the anxious hop we all must entertain on the re toration of a gracious and beloved Soveleigo, under whose auspices, for more than fifty years, we have enjoyed a-portion of -litsZ..rty_astd uninterripted tran quility, which was never enjoyed by any. other country on the face of the globe; and -I feel we all must took with pleasing satisfaction to the hopes held out of the re-establishment of his Majesiy' . s health, and the hope of :he ultimate resumption, himself, of the personal exercise of his Royal Au thority. Notwithstauding, my Lords, what I have heard s night or on former occasions, I can take no blame to myself, nor attach any to my colleagues in office, for those propcisitions we have from • time to time made, in the hope that these measures, which it now may eventually 'be necessary to adopt, might have been assoided. In this View of rime case, it is impossible to consider the state io which the country must be involved under such circumstances —a situation - in which it, is now narly two cen tuties and an half ago since it was placed un:!er a 'Government in any degree similar, which the af flict ing consideration we all deplore may render.ue cessary. I say, my Lords, wheel we reflect not only upon the difficulties but the degree of danger na turally incident 10 such changes, it is impossible that we should. not pause when any reasonable pros pea presented itself of our being able to at oid such a .state a. that to which I have alluded. It was our duty as Ministers, in such circumstances, and our duty to the country, to endeavour to avoid it. Ido not say this, my Louis, from any conilderations of a personal nature towards any individual, however exalted, but from nubile grounds, and from public principles. Under these impressions, 1 shall, at the present moment, endeavour to avoid, as much as possible,•the consideration and discussion of all ex traneous points, or of any matter foreign from the subject regularly before us. If I deslitie entering upon arty of these topics, it is not from any pit Ocular nnwillingoess, or de:ure to shrink from art s such ni,, cussions, hut because I tee! they are net oecessarily iiivelvetytt the questionS tow regularly before In a Committee. The pres,mtquestions should tie wholly considered on their own grounds, and titeir.exclusive merits, and not. cOnnec!ed with e auy thing that., mayseend to enubarrasa, instea s cl of tacilitatilig 'he • di s cussion. That now t3efore - us entirely aid alone respeas the course-and mode of the pioceedings which it may be necessary to adopt ; and its far as this consideration wear, that is, as to ,the form of our proceedings, I was induced - to think. there Would he no material differeoce . of opinion ; but as . I un derstand since, from what has passed in this. House, and in other places, that it is intended not merely to object to the ,mode in which it is proposed to fill up, the temporary deficiency in the Constitution, but also to, oppose the whole principle aod. course of the proceedings adopted in the' year 1788. With respect, my Lords, to the principle of that great and salutary precedent, when I consider it so analogous to, and Wooded on, the genuine. principles . of the Constitution of this country ; when .1 consider the great and eminent law authorities who have given theit decided and express sansaion to that principle and course of procett.lings I feel it a question, of so much magnitude and impot tarice that 1 cannot avoid • stating those . general principles, at least, on which; in my coui;itiion, these resolutions are founded, and which I 'conceive to by consonant to all those great constitutional principles, by which I conclude your Lordishins would wfsh to be governed on such occa sions, as the present. The firseprinciple Joist down in forming the precedent of 788,was, that the. Throne must be considered as always fell, and that th4oli tical capacity of the Sovereign was always in exist clice,whatever may be the immediate temporary per situation of the Monat ch. -This I CUllt::::1 VC to be a pratlical distinction'of a trate% neces•elry to ensure to the governed the existence of all toe advantages to besdeneed from the principle rat Mottaichv. If the exercise of the royalauthority during the tile of tlie legal Soveregn must be acrupolously reserved for that Soveleian,,aily depinture e froto this principle on every occasican of temporary persoaallucanacity might be, to lead to all the iueonveniencies and dan gers of a disputed succession.. The great object in the eStahlishment of the toduarchical system was, its affording a security, and the certainty of its afford ing a bulWark, against the ambitioisa designs of indi viduals ; ttie object should be, as far 2s possible, to se cure tins system against any interrup t i on . an d ao coat centre sand continue as far as possible the executive posses to the King upon the Throne., T i s these miry Lords, should be added, the consideration that the law knows no such office•as that. of Regent: That office was al ays created under special circumstances, and with reference to a special exigency. It was the uniform practice of our ancestets" so to act, and in their wisdom they formed no general precedent for the guidance of posterity orison the . point ; they. felt the danger of meddling witn a principle of the kind su great, that they thoualit that as hatever • inconvenienctes may.arise from its being left oprn and undecided, these were less than what would result from laying down it,general prospeetive rule ; riTy tt-ought it right' to leave it to the wisdom of free gido ures to ~provide fm= that to'the •1i t , . , . _ ~,,,,,„,!,„„,:::: • , , H , 'l4 c,..,..,..„.„.,.., ~ ~::."..,.,,......:..... ....,.,.,,.._,,,::._, . .. _ ... . ~,.,,,,...,..„......,,..,..:..,.:,... , .V 44,:... .? . g -...--vo•,. , 3 4, ~i.,?,,,,.. fi? • 'AP, 0,, cEaultß 23, 181.0: the succession to the Regency should be regulated by, that . -of the -succession to the Monarchy ; nor (lees such a principle, I' beLieVe,eobtain in other cotm tries,governed by the Monarchical system. deed, In wine countries - the Heir apparent .or Heir presumptive (upon sufficient grounds I should - think) is considered as the last person in whom such an of fice should be vested. ,Even where the. &blue law prevails, the- next in succession to the throne is not considered as the properest to exercise the an theruies of a Regent.. The assumed principle of a right vested in the next in succession Id the office of_Regent was not fOunded on the principles of the Constitution ; nor, was it to be' found in the Statute,Book. There was no instance itethe histot y, of the - country of a Re gent who had not been appointed by the tiuthority of the existing JLegislature. Indeed, an instance of a claim to the Regency ,heing made, was to be found in the reign of Henry VI. when the next of kin (the Monarch being thee in a state of infancy) claimed the exercise of royal power. The claim was discus sed in Parliament, and it was the opinion of all the great authorities of that day, that such a claim was entirely unfounded, and it was so determined by the legislature. ledeed all the cases in the history of the realm evinced that no Regent was ever appoint ed except -by the authority of Pat - Name:if. It•is also apparent, my LordS, from a review of our history, that there was no 'instance of a Regency, with the exception of the Doke of Gloucester, after wards king Richard 111. and the Prefeetor Somerset, that wfisino , in sonic way or usher limited end restrained by Pere lianient. levee the Duke of York, in the reign of Hems VI. notwithstanding all his power 'and in fluence, he could not obtain the Regency otherwise than as a restricted grant. I knoW, my Lards, it may be objeeted that r hesecases. to which I refer are drawn from_ tirn4 and Periods of anarchy and vio lence, but they are time to which, in the opinions of the greatest legal and 'constitutional authorities, we should look for the foundations - of that liberty which we now enjoy, that these foundations were laid from the- accession of Henry 111, to -the reign of, Henry VII. But, my Lords, it is 'not prece dents formed in these times that we can alone r fer; we have them many degrees bearer to the present time. Ido not now mean the great cause of t7B, that I shall advert to by and by The cases I mean afford us ample proof of the opinion of the country as to the principle.-' I Ankle to the ot the twenty- Mai ot George the Second, made in Contemplation of the minority of his, present Majesty. I. enter not into particul.sr cireutosotoces or . triair'eietnents, but it strews the prevalence ot the princiele at the tune, that the next in illoce , SiLlti a,• not, as a matter of course, entitled- to - the office or the powers ot Regency, and tont ilk otii:e to be contingently exercised was nor -created ..vir hoet moation or restriction. The Ad toe the eientuJl formation: oleo Regency, in the early east of the present reign, proceeded. upon the same,. vtiftciple, .ihe next in succession to'tire Throne WO3 not 'to-be Mt/cited With the Regency, neither was it to' be . exercised without limitation or restriction. All-the precedents and authorities in the Statute,Book, ar in the page of history, evince the principle that no individual whatever has any right to the office of Regent, save what he derived from Perhament,- and that such was founded on the best principles of our Constitution. I shall now proceed to tine con sideratien of the mode in which such office, in case of necessity, may be eoeferted by the Legislature-,-- There exist only t\vo, that by Address, and that by Bill. As to the, person on whom the office should be conferred, they were all agreed. By the mode of Address, his Royal HigaTess would be desired to take upon him the Government of the country—by an - act of the Legislature it would • be provided he should do so ; but I would ask, •if any particular' indiYidual has .tio legal title tot he -Regency., whether both modes 'ot pricceding are of equal efficacy. _ However, it proves, •by your own. spewing, - - that the. authority proceeds -from Parliament, whichever mode is adopted: The mode of Address in itself can confer no legal powers, and in every view I can take of it,' I consider that of 'proceeding by Bill the only mode we can adopt. The ,Address, my • Lords, can .cOnfer no legal power, it can form no record, nor be taken not in the courts below.- The Address may call . forth into ect ion any legal power already in exiStenceebut it can confer ne powei by law which did not previ ously exist. No objection of this sort- collid e lie against the mode of prdceediag by Bill, which, •vc, ith the Great Seal affixed to, must be duly regarded in all tine Ceurrs or the Realm,' I contend that t:.e annexation of the Great Seal would have such q tecl—the Courts Were-bound, to obey it—no cove ' nant could be made against it in the Courts _of Law. -Here— Kul STANHOPE rose. to order; but on its appear ing the, Noble Lord was not , generally sup:.;Airt ed ;, he .obierved, it wai competent, for bun to rise to correct a .mistake in a "Mernbei of th e • Cohnnii tee. • The Earl of HARROWBY observed,_.in ans , .ver, that kis Noble Friend was perfectly in order, a mis take was no transgression of order. The Earl of.; lAvaitroot. resumed ; he contend ed • for the accuracy of his former position. " The validity of the Gre,it Seal may be questioned by Parliament, but it cannot be que.itioned in any of the Conrts below, I cannot better expres my opinion on this heed, than by referring to the lAnguage of a great law authority now no more; I mean the late Lord Camden; he had a ['nth ular de gree of correemei.s in expressing his opinions, and I ;relieve from all that I lin - ve- heard or read upon the subject, or from all I conic( collect from'my converr sation4 with per•ons 'elnitirll ‘ ly learnt:llln th-t hat the opinion of that great Lord was loom tro.ertible. (Here the Noble Earl read the opinion he iiituded to.) In illustrAing the great legal autho -7ity of tbe-Pr e eat Seal, nothing can wan a more-Atilt LPRICE SIXPENCE nALr.pEivis Y • ing proof than the effe& of its annexation to an Aft passed towards the close of the reign of Henry VIII, where the royal assent' was obtained tinder suchcir-o curnstances as to render it a matter of doubt whether the assent was duty given. Yet that act remained to force, and was never questioned during the reign . of his successor, King Edward the Vlth. This inrin3 a striking proof of the efficacy of the Great Sea!, which, even where it wa§ - doutilful whether the royal assent was duly obtained, yet tbr an interval of seve-' ral years its authority, was not attempted to he set aside.'lt was only in'Parliament that the authority of the Great Seal con be questioned or revoked. Froth all I have said, my Lords, I must conclude, that in case of the peisonal incapacity of the King to signify his assent, there remains no other mode to prolide for thedeficiency, but by legislation ; it lies only in the two remaining branches to provide - for fi=ling op the deficiency; and of this, as I before observed, there are numerous precedents. Tice principleait the present proceeding, my L. , r,!s, goes throughout up on tie consideration of the Throne being full—that Courts of Justice_ are Open—that all the Commis sions, from the Crown are in full force—and that the 'State is alive in all its parts. In the much Vaunted case in i6BB, the case was far • otherwise—the Throne was vacant—the Courts of Justice were shut—the Great Saal was destroyed. Under these circumstances there was then no alter -native ; they had no power, no authority to legis late, and tney ad'opied that mode under the Or ouinstances Watch appeared to them must beneficial to the State ; they adored it on the exigency of tae ca.e. Another instance, my Lords, adduced of the ritode - of proceeding by Address, is th e we ll-k nown case of the Iritt Parliament i u 1783. That Body was pleased to determine on the mode of address but toile immortal honour of the Noble Marquis who then, resided in that country as the representa tive of the Soveregn, he Withheld, from it every sanction in his poiver, and even refused to transmit at to this country. But, my Lord, a .Materall consi deration applies to this proceeding of the Irish Rq'-• liament, I mean on- the docuasioata of the question of a Union _with that country in 179 n, viz. that this -very proceeding of the Parliatnentonrelandi t a 1788, by mode of address, was urged as au orpiment for toe Union, inasmuch fIS the Legislatures in their. separate 'btate logy, citi tie occurrence of web ,an event, choose a ditfetentoatrson to 'fill the office . of • Regeui in Ireland, - train that cooseti fill, the same office . in Etagrind. Thisa - was admitted, as far as it went, to be a conclutiite arvment. prr.cedent of 178 d, my Lords, 1 contend, in all its pears an d • bealhig4, IS the only one w loco, under. the raaerit and preatsaly siltii.ar circumatatices,legally nucleon ,:itLuionLihy Our procePditigs. Il was :Imola , • , and :ully taocos,eat io - both Houses of Vat - haric o t at - the time, and the Resolutions ialliajo I ha:u the nowt this night- to submit you;ware carried in b..th Houses by considerable majoiniesa - In adttilion to vs 13. it I have already adverted to on this head, is she consideralion, that -in 'pursuance of the- Resolutions • of. both Houses, Parliament , N as opened by Commission, ntider the Gent Seal,on the ad of-February ; and it is well lairown, that tt7v4r.ds the close of that month his Majesty haapily recover ed ; and, on the 10th of Marv), Parliament was regularly opeOed by a ComenissiOn; - Under the ac customed formalities, the Commission being signed by his Majesty. 'But in the first Commission I should state, that the cause of the meeting of Parliament under such circumstances was duly stated. In the regular and ordinary Commission for opening the Session on theloth of 'March, the former Con;- mission was referred to and recognised, as appear ed from the then 'Lord Chancellor's saeech to both houses in the - name of his Majesty; the former Commissioners- were continued-in the Commisaion of the loth of March, and the . ads andoprbeLledings under the former Commission werea - ecognised and confirmed by that issued in the customary way, and signed by his Majesty-himself. In the interval be tween the Commissions a variety of legislative pro ceedings had V taken place, as Private Bills, for which Petitions , had been, presented in the usual way,, and. some of • these were considerably ad vanced in their progress. Were the former Coin . mission to which the great Seal Was affixed not i)11 the-perscnal authority of his Majesty, - but on that of the two-Houses only—held to be invalid, or idle .gal,/ or not santlionL•d . as it afterwards' was, what must have become of all those various acts to which I have alluded ? Tt ever it -were thought doubtful all those proceeding§ Most have fallen to the groand, and must have cooonenced anew. - But the tact was. tie reverse; all these Bills %yen: - taken op in - the stages in which they wet e, fOund bithe seixiid Com missioners, and were afterwards passed under its. authority, and under these acts so passed, a consi derable portion of property was now held. These ,• circumstances proved that a full Parliamentary au thority,' duly sanctioned by the King, was given to the proceedings adopted, in the first instance,. by both- Houses'—indeed, it was constituting it a com plete Ad of Parliament. With this great and incon trovertible authority,before our eyes, can we hesitate a moment as to t lie , course of proceeding we ought to putaue? as to onr decision upon the legal mode of tiling up the deficiency which now exists in the Go vernment, and of giving effect to the royal autharily, when we have the deliberate sanction of both Houses upon the case before us, not only this, but thedull authority of the three branches of the Le ' gialaatue ? Upon this view of the case,Any Loids, I air at a loss to conceive hOw there tan exist any (lit lereoce of opinion. As to the question of future proceedings, I mean not at preset t to observe. I wish that the question of the Resolutions now be fore you should rest upon its own merits. I they imylve - one of the greatest and most imoortatit quesotans ever discussed in Parliament---they involve tf,e most essential rights of the Throne—and rr these considerations, they involve every thing most sacred in the rellioa :Of the country, and eery