The Sun. — London, England, 1838-04-04 00:00:00

( Lord Morpeth) bad also the satisfaction to inform the Hon. Member opposite that the Dean of Derry had called at the Castle, and expressed himself satisfied with the course pursued by her Majesty's Government.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the invasion of the town of Derry by a sti pendiary magistrate, the visit was made on the representation of several respectable inhabitants, that a breach of the pesee was likely to occur. He had no objection to produce the docu ments, with the exception of those referring to the law Officers of the Crown. After a few words from Mr. SHAW, O'CONNE LL said it was really ludicrous and absurd to get up a discussion on such a subject. What were the facts? An old woman named Cathcart bad died. She was a Roman Catholic, and she was buried in the old Cathedral churchyard of Derry. Two priests went in and prayed over her ; not a human being was injured ; there was no riot or disturbance ; and the whole complaint was that these prayers were said in Latin. That constituted the grave charge. Why, proceedings like the present were calculated to keep up and excite the worst feelings. The Hon. Baronet stated that the priests had said mass over her at three o'clock in the afternoon ; but either the affidavit was read wrong, or it stated what was not and could not be true. That person bad a right to be buried there, and he believed there was no refusal to pay the par son's fees, and the only action that could lie against the priests at common law would be for a trespass upon the parson's freehold, as the church-yard was termed. It was against one of the statutes which was passed during the progress of emancipation, the 6th of Geo. IV. commonly called the Easement of Burial Bill, this alleged outrage had been com mitted, and by it a penalty of 501. was inflicted on any Roman Catholic Priest who should attempt to say prayers over the dead in a Protestant churchyard, without the authority of the incumbent. What a case was this to go to Government with ?—( Hear, hear, hear.) The Dean of Derry, instead of employing an attorney himself, writes to Government to induce them to make this a Government prosecution. What was to prevent the Dean of Derry front prosecuting himself ? He had not done so— he had shown somewhat of a better feeling—and he hoped that the House would not now interfere in the matter. What was the case after all ? Was it not enough that they should be separated by the spirit of religious animosity while living, with out carrying it to the grave with them ?—( Hear.) The Hon. Member for Derry had taken offence at the interment in the same church-yard with the bones of the apprentices of Derry of those of poor old Mrs. Cathcart—(" Hear," and laughter.) Who would have thought that they had lived to see the day when the bones of Mrs. Cathcart should be interred in the same grave with the apprentices of Derry ?—( Laughter.) The Hon. Member had alluded to the religion of the Attorney- General for Ireland. It was true that he was a Roman Catholic, but it so happened that he had given no opinion at all with respect to this matter, the opinion having been given by the Solicitor-General, Mr. Brady, who is a staunch Protestant.; He had no doubt that if the Dean of Derry had not made such a work about the matter, but had merely remonstrated with the parties, his object would have been just as well accomplished as by a Government prosecution ; the bones of other old women would have been buried elsewhere, and those of the apprentices of Derry would not be in future contaminated.—( Laughter. ) Mr. COL QtiH 0 UN said that, even upon the showing- of the Noble Lord opposite (Morpeth), it was a very indelicate and illegal proceeding, and be thought the Hon. Baronet had only done his duty in bringing it under the notice of the House, as the Government had failed to do their duty when it was brought under their notice. Mr. HUME said the Government deserved great credit for having endeavoured to settle this unfortunate difference. That man was not a friend to Ireland who raked up bad feelings between Protestants arid Roman Catholics.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. PLC MPTRE complained that the Government had shown great partiality in the affair. Captain JONES contended that an outrage was committed on the Protestants of Derry which the Government were bound to redress, or they would be suspected of partiality in the administration of the law. Sir E. SUGDEN said the Act of Parliament to which the Hon. Member alluded was passed on account of the con dition of Ireland, and, as the Cathclic Bishop was present on the occasion alluded to, when a breach of the law was com mitted, it ought not to be passed over lightly. Sir G. SINCLAIR said that the Catholic Emancipation Art was violated every day. He found the Roman Catholic Bishops assuming the titles which they were bound by the Act not to assume. Lord was sorry Hon. Gentlemen oppocite should f , el it necessary to bring the matter forward, when it was overlooked by the Dean of Derry, who had the most cati.e to complain. After a few words from Sir R. BATE SON, in reply, 0 e snotic:n was agreed to. SLAVERY, Mr. SCARLETT, pursuant to notice, moved for a copy of any communication from the Colonial Office to the Marquis ' 3 ! Sligo, the Governor of Jamaica, directing the sudden eman cipation of the apprentices upon the estate of Philip Anglin Scarlett, Esq., and for copies of any other documents relating to thet transaction. The Hon. Member said that his object was to ohta.in some compensation for the ruin inflicted on this telbang y gentleman by th e d epr ivation of his property. Sir G. GREY sa id t h e case was s i mply one of law, hinging entirely cn the construction of an Act of Parliament, and t - uat parallel cases involving the same question were tow 'before the Privy Council for adjudication. To be valid, the slaves should have been registered every three years, but as these on the estate of Mr. Scarlett had not been sm registered ahoy were declared entitled to their freedom, in conformity -with the Emancipation Act. He (Sir G. Grey) regretted that this case had been brought befora the House, because he 'could not consent to the motion as it stood ; but if the Hon. :Member would move for a copy of all tl-e correspondence - that had taken place between the Colonial Office and the f;overno! of Jamaica on the subject of the emancipation of all sive s similarly circumstanced, he shou'd have no objection I.re grant them. -Mr. SCA R LETT was understood to agree. The ATTORNE Y. G E NERA L said a few words in jus tification of the opinion given by the Law-officers of the Crown. On the mo - ion of Sir G. GREY the amended returns were ordered, and the subject dropped. SOAP TAX. Mr. GIL LON presented a petition from the soap manu facturers of the metropolis, praying the total abolition of the tax on soap. The Hon. Member then brought forward his motion to the same effect. He would submit to the House some statement to prove the decline and decay of the trade in the first instance. From 1833, when half the duty on soap was abolished on the motion of the present Earl Spencer, the amount manufactured was as follows :- 1833 154,579,990 lbs. 1834 154,260,000 1835 160,374,000 1 , 36 159,038,664 1837 . 152,114,157 'Which shewed a decrease in the gross quantity of five per cent. ; and, as between 1333 and 1537, of seven per cent. Then, the decrease on the quantity entered for home con sumption was proportionably great, or even greater; for as between 1833 and 1836 it amounted in comparison of the two years, one with another, to ten per cent. at least. This decrease, though great, would have been still greater but for the brisk demand which arose for the article last October ; and he (Mr. Gillon) felt satisfied that if the returns of the last year had been made up, it would be found to have still more exceeded that amount. Much of the decrease in the re venue was undoubtedly to be attributed to smuggling. In many towns the soap manufactories were set up evidently as a mere pretext for smuggling. At Chippenham, for instance, it appeared by the returns that one made 1571b5. of soap in the course of the year—a quantity certainly not worth paving a four-pound license for. They now no longer needed but could work effectively on a small scale, which left no traces of the purer alkali now employed. The candlemakers have all the facilities on the spot for the production of the best soap. There are three hundred of those actively employed in the operation in England, and it is believed with good reason that they make a large quantity of soap illicitly, not being under the surveillance of the - Excise. The Hon. Member complained that the soap manufacture was subjected to a set of antiquated rules and heavy penalties of the reign of Queen Anne, which it was impossible to observe. Our laws did not enable the manufacturer to use vegetable oils in his process without loss, so that branch of the manufacture was left to foreigners. Again, the soap duty did not extend to Ireland, and he could see no reason why English manufacturers should pay duties that they did not. Further, the inequality of pres sure bore heavily on the poor, for whose sake it was most de sirable to repeal it. If, however, the whole duty could not be abolished, he saw no reason why the suggestion of the Com missioners to reduce the duty from lid. to Id. should not be complied with. He concluded by moving the total abolition of the duties on soap. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER felt that it was only prudent before totally repealing a duty yielding between 700,0001. and 800,000/. per annum to inquire whether they could spare that amount from the revenue.-- ( Hear, hear.) If so he would be happy to comply, but there were many objections to the proposition. All the taxes ought to be considered together in a case of this kind, and when they considered that last quarter there was a deficiency of 625,0001., they would see that it was impossible to concede the demand. He thought that the reduction of the duty one third would be a very hazardous experiment, and that the in troduction of any equalising duty in Ireland would tend very much to encourage smuggling in the remoter parts. The abolition of the duty in England would almost have the effect of destroying the soap manufactories in Ireland, for they at present complained exceedingly of the rivalry they were ex posed to. With respect to the reduction of expenditure re commended, it had been going on for the last seven years. Indeed Government had been more forward than the House in its desire for reduction. Again, he must repeat that he was not prepared to sacrifice 800,0001. of revenue without ending some equivalent. He had some Bills ready for the purpose of simplifying the laws, and removing every impolitic restriction; but in the present state of the revenue he could not consent to the reduction of so important a sum in the absence of all equivalent. Lord SANDON thought that in the present state of the revenue a proposition for the total reduction of the tax ought not to be persisted in. The revenue was at present admitted to be a declining one, and under these circumstances he was of opinion that the recommendation of the Commissioners ought to be attended to. With this view of the case he would move as an amendment on the motion of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Gillon) that the duties on soap should be reduced by one- third. Mr. BENETT, under all the circumstances, could not vote for the motion, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would op pose both the motion and the amendment. Mr. HUME thought the decline of the revenue would war. rant Ministers in undertaking the experiment. If the Noble Lord's motion were carried, it would take fifty per cent. off the duty, and place the manufacturers in the position in which they ought to be. Our military and naval establishments were now on a higher scale than they had been for years, and the Civil List also ; and the Government had no right to claim a particular economy on those heads. He should support the motion of the Noble Lord opposite. Mr. HAWES said that in supporting this motion of his Hon. Friend he was satisfied that he was supporting a motion which, if carried, would lead to an increase rather than the injury of the revenue. After a few words in explanation from the CHANCEL LOR of the EXCHEQUER, _ Mr. F. B. BARING said that the question with regard to the injury to the revenue related to the ensuing year—( Hear) —and he was astonished, when the Budget was so soon to be brought on, and after his Right Hon. Friend had told the House that the revenue could not spare a reduction of 200,0001. that an experiment like this should be pressed upon the country.—( Hear.) Mr. W. CAMPBELL opposed the motion. Mr. WALLACE supported the amendment of the Noble Lord, on the ground that it would increase the revenue, and put down smuggling. Sir G. SINCLAIR would not agree to any reductions which would embarrass the finances of the country. Mr. G ILL ON replied, and said that after what had been stated he would withdraw his motion in favour of the amend ment of the Noble Lord.—(Hear.) Lord SANDON also said that after the statements of the Hon. Gentleman, the Secretary of the Treasury, he was not disposed to press his amendment.--(Loud cries of " Divide," " Withdraw," " Divide.") The Noble Lord was understood, however, to say that, consulting the wishes of Honourable Gentlemen, he would take the sense of the House •n his amendment.—(Renewed cries of " Divide," " Withdraw," " Divide.") The SPEAKER expressed it as his opinion that the Noble Lord could not, according to the rules of the House, take the course which he proposed. The Noble Lord must withdraw his amendment before the motion of the Hon. Member for Selkirk could be withdrawn. _ Lord SANDON was perfectly ready to adopt the sug gestion of the Chair, and should, therefore, withdraw his amendment. Mr. GIL LON then withdrew his motion. The question was then put on Lord Sandon's amendment, and the House divided. The numbers were— For the amendment Against it Majority —B9 The original motion was then put, and negatived without a division. Mr. BE AMISH moved for leave to bring in a Bill to regu late the sale of bread in Ireland. Mr. WARBURTON did not think the House should con. sent to the introduction of such a measure, without knowing something more about it. It might be a good or a bad mea sure, for aught he knew to the contrary. If it went to remove absurd restrictions it would be good ; but if, on the contrary, it was designed to establish restrictions it would be bad. He should like to know something more about it. Mr. BE AMISH said that the only object of the measure was to assimilate the law on this subject in Ireland to that of this country. Mr. P. THOMSON said that though he would not oppose the introduction of the Bill, he would in no way pledge him. self to support it. There had been many measures of this kind, but each turned out to be worse than the other. Mr. SHAW would give no opinion as to the Bill until he saw it. If he should not be of opinion that it was an import. ant one, he should oppose it. Leave was then given to bring the Bill in. BELFAST ELECTION. Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL, in pursuance of the notice which he had given, rose to call the attention of the House to the petition of the electors of Belfast, relating to the present system of taxing witnesses' expenses in election cases. The Hon. Member said that he had in vain searched for pre cedents as to the course which he ought to pursue. This case was, in fact, unprecedented in Parliamentary law. The petition to which he referred related to the claims of two Hon. Gentlemen now Members of that House for their expenses in coming to London and attending before the Belfast Election Committee, to substantiate their qualifica tions, with respect to which there had been some doubt. The agents of the Earl of Belfast and Mr. Gibson, the late Mem bers, were advised that the question of the qualification of Mr. Tennent and Mr. Dunbar should be raised, and these Hon. Gentlemen were accordingly served with the Speaker's warrant to produce the necessary documents so show that their qualifications were sufficient. On receiving the Speaker's warrant Mr. Tennent refused to attend unless his expenses were paid, and served a notice to that effect, upon which the Messrs. Montgomery, the agents for Lord Belfast and Mr. Gibson, give an undertaking that they would pay to Mr. Tennent such expenses as should he awarded to him. Mr. Tennent subsequently claimed of Messrs. Montgomery a sum of 101. for travelling expenses to London ; a guinea a day for twenty-three days, while he attended before the Committee ; and a further sum of 101. for travelling expenses back to Bel fast. Mr. Dunbar adopted the same course, and gave notice that until the amount which he claimed was paid he would remain in London at the expense of the parties who had en tered int-) the undertaking. The agent, too, of Mr. Tennent and Mr. Dunbar had furnished an account of 1231., although be came to London to attend to his professional duties. By a case in Perry and Knapp's report it appeared to have been laid down by the late Speaker that witnesses were only enti. tied to the necessary expenses in coming up to attend before the Committee, and that all their other charges were subject to taxation. Much of the delay in the Committee had oi i ginated with the Counsel of the Honourable Gentlemen themselves, anti he thought that such claims as these were most utjust, and ought not to be sanctioned by that House.—(Hear, hear, hear.) To avoid expense the matter had been referred to Mr. Rose, one of the clerks of that House, and as he had decided in favour of allowing the expenses it was only an act of justice to him that some inquiry into sueh mattors should take place. He thought it due to the character of the House that some inquiry should take place, or that some expression of the opinion of the House should be made. It should not, in his opinion, be sanctioned that a claim of this kind should be made. He would conclude by moving for a Select Committee to take into con sideration a petition from the electors of Belfast, with respect to the present system of taxing witnesses' expenses in election case s. Mr. DUNBAR did not rise for the purpose of opposing the motion of the Hon. Member for Kerry ; but as his name had been introduced into the petition, he was sure that the House would pardon him for introducing a few observations with respect to it. It had been truly stated in the petition, that a demand had been made on his part for his expenses, and he thought no doubt could be entertained of his right to do so, as the officers appointed by the House had awarded ex penses in similar circumstances to his colleague. This was not, however, the reason why he had made a claim for expenses. His reason was tint Lord Belfast's agent had made a de mand, amounting to about 1.5/., and when he (Mr. Dunbar) was made aware of this, he informed his solicitor that if he chose he might apply for the amount of the expenses to which he ( Mr. Dunbar) was legally entitled. He had been served with a notice (as we understood the Hon. Member) to pro duce a certain deed, in order to afford to the sitting Members the fullest opportunity of questioning his qualification and of searching into it. He was advised to be prepared with the witness to that deed, lest some cause of complaint or objection might be raised if that witness was not present. Accordingly, he had been placed under the necessity of bringing the witness be alluded to at great expense from the north of Ireland, and that witness being a professional man, and having been detained for upwards of three weeks, he felt bound to allow him three guineas a day and his expenses back again, and this witness alone had - cost him (Mr. Dunbar) upwards of one hundred poands. Now, after he had been subjected to all this expense, would it be believed that that deed never had been asked for —( Hear, hear, hear.) But that was not the only expense to which he bad been subjected with respect to his qualifica tion. He had been questioned respecting another deed, and after that deed had been produced, and after the opposite party had considered and perused it, they found that it would not answer their purpose. They accordingly returned the deed, and refused to give it in evidence. Now, he asked the House was not this a case of hardship ? It would be quite a mistake for any one to suppose that the parties to the petition were the parties whom he sought to obtain his expences from. Why, no man could be considered in his senses who would think of expecting a single farthing from them. Two of them had been struck off by the Committee as not being qualified to vote as 101. freeholders. They were mere men of straw. He wished to make one observation with respect to a gentleman whose name bad been mentioned in connection with this case. He alluded to Mr. Bates, than whom there was no more res pectable gentleman in his profession. That gentleman would never have thought of asking for his expences, if Lord Bel fast's Agent had not made an application for his expences. After a few words from Mr. WYNN and Mr. H. GRATTAN, Lord JOHN RUSSELL was unable to concur in the motion. He thought that they could not do so without in terfering with those officers who had a most responsible duty to perform. After a few observations from Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL, The motion was withdrawn. AYRSHIRE YEOMANRY CAVALRY. Mr. G ILL ON rose for the purpose of moving for returns on this subject. The Hon. Member concluded by moving for " A copy of any precognition taken for, or report made to, the Lord Advocate of Scotland, respecting the conduct of the Ayrshire Yeomanry Cavalry, in and near the town of Kilwin fling, during the last election for the county of Ayr; espe cially such extracts as will show the order issued for the as sembling of the above corps, or any part of it, on the day pre vious to the said election ; the name or number of the troop or troops assembled, and the number of men from other troops than those ordered out; with the names of the officers commanding or accompanying the troops which turned out on that occasion, and stating whether with their own troops and nten, or with those of other troops ; also the name of the place or places where the officers and men were ordered to meet, and were quartered, during the day and night previous to the aforesaid election ; also the hour and place at which they paraded on tho election day ; the distance of that place from the polling station at Kilwinnirag ; the hour they marched into that town ; stating also the pace at which they were con ducted, and the hour and place of their arriving at the polling booth, the time they were kept there during the hours of poll ing, and when relieved from duty." The LORD ADVOCATE objected to the production of these papers. According to the law of Scotland these precog nitions were quite private. Mr. FERGUSSON supported the motion. Mr. WALLACE also supported the motion, which wag withdrawn. THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, APRIL 4, 1838. PUBLIC INCOME AND EXPENDITURE. Mr. GILL ON then moved for " An account of the public income and expenditure of the United Kingdom in the years ending the sth of January, 1836, 1837, and 1838 ; distinguish ing the actual payments for the expenses incurred in the col lection and management of the revenue, for the charges of the public debt (the terminable annuities being also valued by estimate), for the expenses of the Civil Government, the al lowances to the Royal Family, and to his Royal Highness Prince Leopold ; the establishment of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, the expenses of the two Houses of Parliament, and the Civil Departments ; the other pensions on the Consolidated Fund, or the gross revenue, and the Civil List ; also the pay ments for the administration of justice, diplomatic expenses, and the payments on account of the sums voted for the army, navy, and the ordnance services ; also public works, bounties, Post office, the quarantine and warehousing establishments, and all other payments not coming under any of the foregoing heads ; with an appendix showing the several items composing each head of the account." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER didnotrise for the purpose of opposing the motion ; but as this was a mo tion for a continuation of former returns, he could not help observing that such returns were inconvenient, from their ten dency to produce confusion in the public accounts. The motion was agreed to, and the return ordered. LORD DURHAM'S MISSION. The Marquis of C H ANDO S said that he now rose to bring under the attention of the House the :question of which he had given notice, and in doing so he would assure the House that at that late hour of the night, it was not his intention to trespass at any great length ; but at the same time he must observe that the motion which he would have the honour to propose, was one which appeared to him to possess very great importance. Lord J. RUSSELL asked the Noble Lord what was the specific form of the motion he intended to bring forward. The Marquis of CH ANDOS said that he intended to pro pose a resolution of which he had sent a copy to the Noble Lord the Secretary of the Colonies. The resolution was in the following terms :—" Resolved that it is the opinion _of the House that the duties of Lord High Commissioner and Governor-General of her Majesty's North American provinces should ba conducted with the utmost degree of economy consistent with the public service, and the just and ample reward of all persons employed. That it appears by returns which were laid before this House that the amount of the expenditure for one year on account of the esta blishment of Lord Gosford was 12,6781., and that it appears to the House that such establishment was formed on a just and liberal scale, and i 3 a proper precedent to he acted on with respect to the establishment to be provided for the Earl of Durham." On the 20th of March, he (the Marquis of Chandos) had wked a question with respect to this subject of the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Home Department—namely, with respect to the expenses of Lord Durham's mission and the Noble Lord had informed him in reply, that he had no objection that there should be laid before the House a statement of the establishment in tended to be made. It appeared so far back as the 10th of March a let ter was written to Lord Durham, in reply to Sir G. Grey, and enclosing him a memorandum of the proposed establishment, as far as he stated himself to be able to judge of the assistance he would require. But on the 20th of March he (the Marquis of Chandos) asked this question of the Noble Lord the Home Secretary, and on the 24th of March, four days after this, the following letter appears to have been addressed by Lord Glenelgto the Earl of Durham. " Downing-street, 24th Mareh, 1838. "My Lord—l have the honour to inform you that a desire has been expres.ed by a Member of the House of Co;nmons in his place, that a statement of your Lordship's establishment as Governor-General of the British North American provinces and her Majesty's High Commis sioner for the adjustment of certain affairs in Canada, should be laid before the House. Lord John Russell, on the part of her Majesty's Government, having assented to this request, I shall be obliged if your Lordship will tlirnish me with a statement of your establishment for this purpose—l have, &c. (Signed) " GLENELG. " The Right Hon. the Earl of Durham, G.C.8., &c. &c." There was a letter of the 26th March, written by Lord Durham to Lord Glenelg, which was as follows: " Cleveland-row, March 26, 1838. "My Lord—l have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your Lordship's communication of the 94th inst. Her Majesty having been graciously pleased to entrust to me the general Government of six pro vinces in North America, the entire administration of the affairs of one province during the suspension of the ordinary form of government, and a separate commission for the adjustment cf weiihty affairs af fecting the permanent welfare of all her Majesty's possessions o!' North America, I must require, for the due performance of these important and multifarious functions, the most zealous and efficient co-operation. I feel it due to those who leave this country on this arduous and difficult service to ensure to them adequate and ho nourable remuneration. By this feeling I have been influenced in the formation of an establishment for carrying on the government of North America, and hare the honour of enclosing you a copy of:my letter to Sir George Grey, of the I eth instant, in which are included the details which your Lordship requests. I have also to state to your Lordship that I have received from the Com mander of the Forces permission to avail myself of the services of four paid Aides-de-Camp, whose assistance will be urg►ntly required in the various personal communications which I must necessarily to make to the Lieutenant. Governors and Commanders of her Majesty's forces in the dlfferent provinces placed under my govern ment. I have wow given your Lordship all the information I can afford rts at the present time. On my arrival in North America I may pos sibly find it necessary to require further executive assistance; but I can assure your Lordship that I shall ever be guided by as strict an atten tion to economy as in consistent with what is, I own t• you, my primary object, the efficiency of the public service.—l have. tee., (Signed) " DURHAM. " The Right Hon. Lord Gleneig, &e. &e." lie had no fault to fing.with this sentiment, but he felt it his duty to bring this question before the House, inasmuch es before he set oat for h,s command the douse should express an opinion whether the Noble Lord should have power to incur unlimited expense, or should, like his predecessor, Lord Goeford, have a salary, amounting in the whole to 1'2,000/. a year. He thought that the Noble Lord, In offering his serricee gratuitously, had only done what any man anxious for the good of his country would do, but he (the Marquis of Chandos) was one of those who thought that when he was appointed to any duty it was much better he should receive a regular salary, as gratuitous see. vices often turned out the most expensive in the end.—(Cheers.) Ile could recount many instances in which gratuitous services had turned oat tar more expensive than a fixed salnry.—(Hear.) But hu had always thought that in cases like the present the Administration always formed the establishment of its officers—that they did not leave to those they employed the formation of their own establishments, or leave undc ter. mined the sums they intended to take. The Noble Lord apposite must be aware that rumour spoke very largely of the extreme splendour that was to et' end this mission—(Hear)—and he thought the Noble Lord had a right to state the precise circumstances under which Lord Durham went out, whether he wee to be unlimited as to expense, or to have a salary similar to his predecessor in the Government. In the numerous items in the Earl of Durham's statement, he (the Marquis of Chandos) found opposite to the name of the Earl a blank. Ile had heard before that he had offered his services gratuitously; but he was sure the Noble Lord (J. Russell) would agree with him, that according to the proposed scale, those services would prove more expensive than any salary.— (Hear.) The next item was the Private Secretary, also without salary— at least he concluded so, from the recurrence of the blank opposite his name. No doubt he had followed the example of his principal, and chi. valrously tendered his services fur nothing.—(Hear, hear.) 'Vs'ho that Secretary was he did not know; he believed it was Mr. E. E llice, jun. Could he pretend to say what his expenses might be ? Bet he would also object in his case to unlimited power, and would be much better pleased to hear what he was to get for his cervices.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Besides him it appeared there were to be four other secretaries, at salaries of 1,500/. a year, and also a military secretary—a most distin. guished officer he must admit as ever trod the toil—at a salary of 7001. There were to be two assistants at 600/. each, making altogether for secretaries 2,800/. ; whereas those officers of the last Government cost only I,sosl.—(Hear, hear.) Why they were to have this immense force of secretaries he (the Marquis of Chanties) did not pretend to know, but he must say that he never heard of a person employed on a mission like the present whe took with him so many attaches as Lord Durham. He then came to another important question in the retinue, which was the legal adviser.--(Laughter.) Now he had certainly taken great pains to search through the history of missions like the present, and In not one did he find any trace of an appendage like the legal ad viser of Lord Durham.—(Cheers.) It appeared particularly strange, when they recollected that there were such persons as an Attorney and Selicitor.General in Canada, for whose serviced the country Paid 1001 . a year, and here was a legal adviser with I,6ool.—(Hear, h ea r) —salary, for what purpose was if course best known to those who app ointed him. He saould like to know who that person was. The House should know his name, as he would no doubt cast a slur on the p resent law officers whom he was going out to supersede.—(Much cheering ) Then, besides all these secretaries, and the legal adviser, there were to be four paid Aides-de-Camp. When he heard of those appendages of the High Commissioner—when he found by the Noble Earl's letter that he intended to have them riding fast over the country—he made investigation as to the number of Aides.de-Camp required by the various illustrious men who had been employed by this country. First there was the Duke of Wellington.—(Hear, hear.) When he was Field Marshal in 1815, he had six Aides-de -Camp; but when he had the command of the whole allied army he had only four—(Hear, hear) — and he (the Marquis of Chandos) would put it to the House whether there was any similarity in the cases of the Earl of Durham and the Duke of Wellington ?—(Cheering.) Some Members mentioned that the Duke had some extras. He (the Marquis of Chandos) dared say he had, but in this case there were extras also, and the Duke never took an extra without permission from the Horse Guards. He thought a similar rule should have been observed in this case.—(Hear.) But e s what was all this state for ?—(Cheers.) Was the Noble Lord going to a great country where splendour was re qu i re d, an d w h ere r i c h es w uld t stand should a b l e t h displayed po m pH —?lf pomp.—(Hear,) o.), h But e(t h no, o M, the arqu NobleiofChandos) Earl as co going . under.a country which bordered on one in which splendour was un known, and he thought the Noble Earl would be much mere likely to conciliate the Canadians by a quiet demeanour and good Government than by all the splendid matters he was taking with him in the Hastings.—(Cheers,) Did the Noble Lord suppose that after the discontent which had prevailed in that country he could by carrying from this country splendid uniforms, and a great body of attaches and other magnificent appendages, succeed to any extent in calming the ex_ sited feelings of the people? No, he could not, and he (Lord Chandos) thought that the Gallant Officer who now commanded in Canada would be just as able to conciliate as a Commissioner with all the splendour of Lard Durham.—(Cheers.) What was wanted in Canada was firmness and conciliation, not display, as in a country so poor as Canada splendour would not produce a favourable effect.--(Hear, hear.) He certainly felt much surprised that no Hon. Member on the opposite side of the House had felt it his duty to allude to this questson, because he knew there were so many opposite who usually took an anxious interest in financial affairs, particularly when they eat on his side of the House. — (Cheers.) He confessed he would have been better pleased if some one better qualified had undertaken to bring the matter before the country, but as all the gentlemen on the opposite side had treated the question with silence and indifference, he considered it his duty to bring it befere the House, and to take the sense of the House upon it. He considered that this partook very much of the nature of a job.— (Loud cheers.) Possibly the Noble Earl was a person of whom some of his friends were jealous ; perhaps he was rather an inconvenient friend of the present Government—.(Cheers) —and that this distinguished situa tion was given to him with a view of removing him to a distant point, where he could not annoy or inconvenience his friends, and where he might innocently display his talents—for no one denied to the Noble Earl full merit for his talents—his wealth, and his respectability as an excellent country gentleman.—(Hear.) But he wished to know from the Noble Lord opposite whether there was to be no limit to all this ex penditure ?—(Hear, hear.) Was there no sum fixed for outfit ? Why, he could not turn round without hearing of the magnificent plate—the splendid furniture—the numerous servants that were to accompany the High Commissioner to Canada.—(Hear.) Was the Noble Earl then to have for outfit 3,0001., like the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, or was he not to be at all tied down, but to have unlimited power over the Treasury of the country ? If so, he (the Marquis of Chandos) objected its tote to the scheme, as one not likely to be of the slightest benefit to the country. The Noble Earl must recollect that in the year 1817 (when Mr. Lamb ton) he made a severe attack on Mr, Canning for a matter of this kind (Hear, hear.) And that expenses were very carefully considered and objected to by him at that time he (the Marquis of Chandos) thought he could not better prove than by reading an extract from the speech then made by the Noble Earl.—(Hear, hear.) On the 6th of May, 1817, his Lordship, at the close of long speech, said, " Under all these circumstances he called upon the House to come to a decision on this case." He would now put to a te►t the sincerity of their professions by demanding from them a vigilant watchfulness over the extravagant conduct of the Minister. He showed them a ease in which the public money was squandered, and no anxiety shown to give satisfaction to the country, while every document proved most clearly that in no in stance was confidence so much abused. He would take the sense of the House upon the question, and show the people who were the men who were willing to protect them from the extravagance of the Minis. tern. "—(Hear, hear.) Was not this sufficient to induce the House to support him in these resolutions ?—(Hear, hear.) Lord Gosford's in. come was certainly the proper precedent by which to fix that of the Earl of Durham. He held the same rank, went to the same country, and as far as he (the Marquis of Chandos) knew, exercised the same power. There was one difference to be sure—in the title. The Earl of Durham was the High Commissioner, while Lord Gosford was only Commissioner; but he did not think the difference was sufficient to per mit the former having unlimited controul over the public money.— (Hear, hear.) Without troubling the House farther he would conclude by proposing the resolution of which he given notice. Mr. PRAED, in seconding the motion, would not detain the House by any lengthened observations. He thought the House was certainly bound not to deny the means for ferrying this mission into effect, but they were bound to withhold the means of employing a single Aide-de- Camp too much.--(Hear, hear.) They were sending a mission to a colony which was peeuliarly jealous of expense, and whose suspicions and prejudices on that score formed the principal difficulty in the way of adjustment. They had frequently expressed their suspicion that the country would not legislate for the colony en the subject of expense, ac cording to a proper scale, and Dr. Milson, when examined, stated that " Englishmen were so accustomed to expense in their own cowl. try, that they were the worst persons to regulate colonial expendi ture." Lord Durham should take care, therefore, not to frighten them.--(Hear, hear.) He (sir. Praed) though the letter which had been laid on the table extremely unsatisfactory—the more so, from the circumstance that the nature of the Noble Earl's duty was ex. treraely undefined, and that it was therefore the more important that the expenditure should be accurately described.—(Hear, hear.) In answer to a question of the House of Commons as to the expenses, his Lordship wrote—and he (Mr. Freed) was not to blame in calling the letter unsatisfactory, as it had not satisfied Lord Glenelg—a most extra. ordinary letter, in which he says, that, " being intrusted with a sepa rate Commission for the adjustment of weighty affairs," he had thought the Noble Earl was to have no legislative power, but his Lordship stated that he " was entrusted with weighty affairs, and required the most zealous co.operation ;" but it appeared it was too much to ask his Lord ship anything about the sum he would require. In answer to that clues. tion he treated them to a few metaphors. With tropes and metaphors his Lordship comes, Statements for figures, synonymes for sums. (Cheers.) His Lordship also stated that he would require four paid Aides-de-Camp. Were these to be for the purpose of carrying impor tant communications, or were they merely to swell the pomp and splen. dour of the Governor ? His Lordship then proceeded to say that he had now given alt the information he could afford, and, considering that all that information had been given fourteen days before, and considered unsatisfactory, it was rather curious that his Lordship should say at this time it was all he could afford. His Lordship said on his arrival in America he would afford—what ? further information ? No such thing, be might, perhaps, require further executive assist ance.—(Hear, hear, hear, and loud laughter.) Then there was the legal adviser, who was to supersede the Attorney and Solicitor- General—the House certainly required some explanation on that sub. ject. Now, he asked, with his Noble Friend, what were they to get by this mission ? He looked at it with the greatest suspicion, because he did not anticipate any great benefits from it. He would not say any thing as to the personal fitness of the Noble Earl—that would be trench. Ing on the prerogative of the Crown; but he thought all this parade— these four paid and four unpaid Aides-de-Camp—were, particularly as the rebellion was put down, extremely useless on a mission, the end of which was merely to carry into effect a Commission of inquiry—to add to our already immense mass of Canadian information.—(Hear.) He expected nothing from this inquiry, but another great blue: book like the last.—(Cheers.) He hoped that the House, for a totally useless ob ject, would not subject the country to the expense of this mission. The SPEAKER having put the question, Lord J. RUSSELL said he must first state that the Noble Lord had borrowed a very bad practice, namely, that of bringing forward a motion of considerable importance without having previously informed the House of its object.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord must be aware that the Earl of Durham was charged with a most important duty ; that he would go out in a most responsible situation; and that the Govern ment that appointed him were responsible for his appointment; yet the Noble Lord had thought proper to bring forward a motion inculpating the Earl of Durham, without giving the slightest notice of what his motion was to be, or saying any thing more than that he intended to call the attention of the House to the subject in the ordinary way. If it had been made in the ordinary way no one could object to it —(Hear, hear)—but if a contrary practice was introduced—if a motion of cen. sure were to be introduced without the slightest netice—he could not say that in his opinion such would be a useful practice.—(Hear, hear, hear.) With respect to the motion itself, he must say that he thought it one of a very paltry eliaracter.—(Ministerial cheers.) The Honourable Gentleman who seconded the motion seemed to know nothing whatever either of the state of Canada or of the mea. surest which had been taken for the remedy of Canadian grievances. Canada being disturbed by insurrection, and likewise agitated by dis. cordance amongst the different bodies composing the Local Legislature, the House of Commons had thought proper to suspend the functions of that Legislature, with a view of making further arrangements for the est,:blishment of a harmonious Government. It was then proposed to entrust in the meanwhile the Government to an individual, whose talents the Noble Lord opposite did not attempt to deny, nor had a single word been said by any Hon. Member to show that the person selected by Government was incompetentto his important duty, and who had undertaken that duly from no other motive hut zeal for the inter ests of his country.—(hear, hear.) Well, then, the only attack that could be made was en the score of some expense which was alleged to be unjustifiable. This was a mere attempt to cramp the functions and exertions of the Governor-General—(No, no, and cheers)—made be cause all former attacks on the principle of his mission had entirely failed.—(Laughter.) It aimed, at small matters ; its object was to raise and stimulate unfounded prejudices, to injure and thwart the objects of the mission. —(Hear.) The Noble Lord had proposed that the E a rl of Durham's expenses should be exactly proportioned by those of Lord Gos_ ford, who had a fixed salary for his services. Now when Lord Gosford was sent as Commissioner he had no fixed salary.—(Hear.) On the contrary, he got an order for such expenses as were ccnsistent with economy and the necessities of the ease. And in that order the ex penses of the other Commissioners were not included. But Lord Dur ham, bes'des the functions entrusted to Lord Gosford, had many addi. tional and important duties, as ho would have, together with the Council of which he was the chief, to frame provisionary laws for the government of Canada until the Imperial Legislature should have re modelled the Constitution. Let it be recollected that the local Legis. lature did exist during the time Lord Gosford was in Canada; and the Noble Lord opposite was possibly not aware that the machinery of that Legislature entailed considerable expense on the colony. He was pos. sibly unaware that the sums paid to the Speaker and Members of the House of Assembly during the time the Constitution wag in force had now ceased. Perhaps the Noble Lord meant to con tend that the whole expense of this mission was to fall on the mother country, and totally omitted in his calculation that the re venues which were formerly consumed by the Legislature would be now available to the objects of the Earl of Durham's mission to Canada. The Noble Lord had said that many rumours prevailed with respect to the great expenses of this mission. —(Hear, hear.) As to the particular number of servants or grooms which the Earl of Durham might take with him, he (Lord J. Russell) was not informed; but he was fully aware that the most unfounded rumours were spread, for the purpose of injuring his reputation.—(Hear, hear.) One rumour referred to a magnificent service of plate, said to form part of his outfit. The origin of this was that his Lordship had sent his own plate to a jeweller to have it valued, for the purpose of effecting an insurance on it previous to the ♦oyage.—(Laughter.) This was one rumour, which the Noble Lord very naturally believed. Allusion had also been made to the Aides.de.Camp. Why it bad been thought fit on this occasion, he would not say whether it was right or wrong; but the decision the Government had corns to was, that as the Ran of Durham was going out on this extraordinary mission, and as the state of Canada was so critical---for it was only the ignorance of the Honourable Mem ber who seconded the motion which could have induced him to assert that all danger was at an end—(Laughter)—it would be proper and consistent that his Lordship should go out with fuller powers and retinue than those of an ordinary Commissioner. The Lord Lieute nant of Ireland had four paid Aides-de-camp, but the Noble Lord had compared the number if Aides-de-camp attached to Lord Durham with those of the Duke of Wellington. Now this could only be done to ex cite prejudice; for whatever the personal character of a Lord Lieute nant or a High Commissioner might be, it would be unfair to say that because he had net the talents of the Duke of Wellington, he was not to have the customary retinue of a Lord Lieutenant.—(Hear.) The number of Aides had depended merely on the situation. He did think it necessary when the Earl of Durham should have confidential com munication with other Governors, or with our Minister at Washington, that it was better to entrust those to Aides-de-camp than to send them by post or by a common messenger. Another point disputed was the appointment of a legal adviser; but there were many occasions on which the Earl of Durham, in considering whether he should bring forward any propositions or propose any laws before the Special Council, of which he was the head, would require the professional assistance of a legal adviser, and he (Lord J. Russell) lid think that it was hardly to be expected that measures of importance would be pre posed without the advice of a person competent to that duty.—(Hear.) Allusion had been made to the Attorney and Solicitor-General for Ca nada, but in his opinion questions of this nature had always better be left to the discretion of the Government for the time being. It had been said that Government endeavoured to make an impression on the colonies by a show of magnificence, but it was admitted at the same time that the nobleman who was about to be sent out was not of that character as to rely solely upon display to procure him influence. His talent, kis energy of character, his general acquirements, and his ac quaintance with the constitutional history of the country, were ou all hands admitted, and there was not another man in the whole country more fit for the station to which he was appointed. Allusion had been made to a former motion male by Lord Durham against pro. digsl expenditure, on the occasion of Mr. Canning's mission to Portugal, but that mission was one which, however high-sound ing its title, was one in►olving no real business, and even the eloquent and splendid speech of Mr. Canning did not do away with the obvious objections which were made to it,—(Hear, hear.) There was a real and well-founded objection to the mission of Mr. Canning ; namely, that the whole of the expense then incurred was utterly un necessary. No one ever denied—the members if the present Adminis tration never denied when in opposition—that where an important charge was undertaken, and arduous duties were to be performed, the degree of compensation should be, in some measure, undefined and left to the circumstances of the case. A proof of this was to be found in the speech of Lord Durham which had been referred to. That Noble Lord had made every allowance in favour of one who had in character of Ambassador held, as it were, the reins of the Portuguese Government, and performed high official duties ; but he at the same time ob jected to the incurring of a heavy expense in a case which was little more than honorary and nominal. When high and im. portant duties were to be performed large expenses must of necessity be incurred.—(Hear, hear, hear.) There were instances of special missions which sufficiently demonstrated what was the prae. tice of the country on such occasions. A differenoe of opinion might exist as to whether or not it would be desirable to abolish the practice. He, however, was not in favour of such abolition. He thought that for ordinary services ordinary allowances should be made ; but on spe cial occasions it would be impossible to lay down the exact items of ex pense. Let the House see the expense attendant on come of those spe cial missions. Mr. Hookham Frere was sent out special to Spain in September, 1803. He remained one year, and the expense was 12,3071. The Hon. John Villiera was sent to Portugal in September, 1808, and remained until February, 1810, the expenses allowed were 17,5001, Lord Aberdeen was sent to Vienna in August, 1813, and remained un til the same period in 1814, the expense being 15,220/. Lord Clan. carty had been sent to the Ilague. to Vienna, to Frankfort, and to Paris, from November, 1813, to May, 1813, and the expense was 29,0001. Lord Castlereagh had been sent to Frankfort in June, 1614, where he remained one year, at an expense of 11,0001.; after that he went to Vienna in 1815, which mission was attended with a new and necessary expense of 21,5961. After that he was at Paris from 1815 to 1816, at a cost of 13,3001. He was at Aix.la.Chappelle in 1818 from August to De cember, and the expense was 7,9451. In 1825 Sir C. Stuart went out to Lisbon and to Rio Janeiro at an expense of 24,6471. for a year and a half. Why was it that some of these missions were so expensive ? Because by some of them the affairs of all Europe were to be adjusted. —(Cheers from the Opposition.) The objection of Lord Durham to the expenses of Mr. Canning's mission to Lisbon was, that there was was no important business to be adjusted. Now, with respect to the Canadian mission, no such objection had been taken. No one had de nied the importance of the duties to be performed, yet it was attempted to nibble at the expenses of the secretaries and servants, and palm the motion before the House upon the country as one of a popular charac ter, and intended for the curtailment of unnecessary expenditure.—(Mi. nisterial cheers.) He had made the quotation with respect to former missions, to show that Lord Durham was not the first person who had been sent out for a special purpose, as had been insinuated, without limits being set to the expenses, and that some latitude had always been al. lowed in this respect to every Government when it sent persons out for the performance of important duties, With respect to Lord Durham's fitness for the appointment, evan the Noble Marquis who had brought forward the motion did not undertake to impugn it. The state of Canada was at present a most critical one, and much was dependent on the character of the person who was entrusted with its charge. It was a fault in the policy of this country not to render the station of colonial Governors higher, so as to induce persons of first-rate character and talent to undertake the trust. No one could overrate the duties which the present state of Canada required, and he would put it to the House, if they wished to see those duties well performed, not to cramp the energies nor shackle the efforts of the person to whom those duties were entrusted by an agreement to the motion. If, as was already the case, the House expressed itself satisfied that the mission should take place, it ought not to agree to a paltry motion of the kind—a mo tion which, in a hesitating and ambiguous manner, went to express a want of confidence in the Government which was not atteml•trd to be done nn the proper occasion, when the question was fairly and honestly before the House.—( Ministerial cheers.) . . . Captain WOOD, who was indistinctly heard, owing to the noise in the body of the House, said that the rule laid down by the Noble Lord had not been followed with respect to a Noble relative of his.— (Hear, hear.) That Nobleman had been appointed under the Administration of the Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth to the Court of Russia, and what was the course pursued by Hen. Gentlemen opposite ? They searched through the speeches of his Noble Relative for the pur pose of finding out a hasty expression upon which to fix a charge. Upon this expression a motion was made for an Address to the Crown against the appointment. Now, if the speeches of the Earl of Durham were searched in the same manner similar grounds of objection might easily be found; yet he was the only man wham Ministers could find as the fit and proper person to be sent out to preside over a discontented and divided colony.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. JAMES defended the appointment of Lord Durham, and thought no better selection could be made by Ministers. Colonel SIBTHORP thanked the Noble Marquis for bi inging forward the motion, as it was calculated to show in its proper light that the thing was neither more nor less than a Government job. Mr. E. ELLICE, jun., said that the motion was brought forward fl'om a spirit of political enmity and of hostility to the principles upon which Lord Durham went out. It was made in the spirit of a morning paper which gave its ominous point of X. s. d. With respect to himself, when he was first appointed Secretary to Lord Durham, a salary had been procosed to him; he refused to go upon such a condition, and stated that he would feel amply remunerated in witnessing the happy re sults which were likely to take place, for he felt a deep interest in all that related to the colony. Sir E. SUGDEN, when he saw legal advisers appointed, took it for granted that there was some change about to take place. Either there must be an intention to frame a new constitution, or these persons were taken out to provide for some permanent measure. To either of these proceedings he entertained a decided objection. Mr. HUME saw no reason to suppose that the expense of Lord Dur ham's mission would be grester than that of Lord Gesford's. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman who had succeeded him (Mr. Hume) for Middlesex had appeared very sore at the conduct pursued towards his Noble Relative (Lord Londonderry), but why did he not turn upon the Noble Lord near him for the part he had taken on that occasion P Lord STANLEY—I did not speak until the motion was withdrawn. Mr. HUME thought the whole debate showed great bitterness of spirit. Mr. LAMBTON had not intended to take a share in the discussion; but there was one expression which had fallen from the Hon. and Gal lant Member opposite, who called the subject of the mission to Canada a job, to which he (Mr. Lambten) should consider it his duty to advert. Now, if the Hon. Member meant that his Noble Relative had in the slightest degree participated in anything like a job, or which had that character, knowing his Noble Relative's feelings en such matters so well as he did, he felt bound to say that a greater untruth had never fallen from any man.—(Cries of " Order," and " Chair.") The SPEAKER called the Hon. Member to order, and pointed out to him that the expression he had used was unparliamentary. Mr. LAMBTON bowed to the decision of the Chair; but he would say that a greater mistake—a greater misrepresentation—had never been made by any Hon. Member. He (Mr. Lambten) should not have risen to take any part in the debate but for the one observation to which he had already alluded. He deemed it personally offensive to his Noble Relative, as well as grossly unjust, for his Noble Relative had accepted the situation in question to his (Mr. Lambton's) own knowledge at a great self.sacriflce. Lord J. RUSSELL, as regarded the first resolution, should move the previous question. Sir R. PEEL then said—l have heard such extraordinary comments made in the course of this debate on the motives supposed to influence my Noble Friend near me in bringing forward this motion, and on a de mand of the House of Commons of the Government for information on the subject of public expenditure—(Cheers)—that I feel it absolutely ne cessary to rise in my place in this House, for the purpose of protesting against establishing such a course of proceeding as aprecedent.—(Hear.) I never heard any observations made of which Lord Durham had a just right to complain. Indeed, no party question had been ever treated with greater fairness by the political opponents of Lard Durham. He was considered as totally apart from the jurisdiction of the House of Com mons. But I must contend for the absolute right of the House of Corn. mom to bring forward any question respecting the public expenditure, and the Noble Lord opposite does not discharge his duty to the country as a Minister of the Crown, when he imputes to my Noble Friend mo tives for the question he has put on this subject, and characterises his motion as a " paltry" one. In consistence with my course on the whole of ,e Canada question, I do not mean to inquire now into the personal or political qualification of Lord Durham for the office to which he has been appointed ; but I do maintain that I have a perfect and unques tionable right, as a Member of this House, to inquire into the expense of the establishment of Lord Durham in the performative of the duties of that office, and to take care it shall not exceed just and reasonable bounds. — (Cheers.) But even if it did exceed them, I would still find no fault with Lord Durham for it. The fault would not be with him, but with her Majesty's Government, who allowed it. And here I may say that the correspondence between that Noble Lord and Lord Glenelg is one of the most extraordinary I have ever read.—(Cheers.) Indeed the first letter of Lord Glenelg is absolutely without precedent in the annals of official correspondence, as addressed by a Minster of the Crown to a public offi cer. Now, has such a letter as this ever been seen before " Downing.street, 24th March, 1838. "My Lord—l hare the honour to inform you that a desire has been expressed by a Member of the House of Commons in his place that a statement of your Lordship's establishment as Governor-General of the British North American provinces and her Majesty's High Commi,sioner for the adjustment of certain affairs in Canada should be laid before the House. Lord John Russell, on the part of her Majesty's Government, having assented to this request, I shall be obliged if your Lordship will furnish me with a Statement of your establishment for this purpose. " I have, &c., (Signed) " GLENELG. " The Right Hon. the Earl of Durham, G.C.8., &C. Sa." Now, if the terms of a letter are to be consulted for the meaning deemed to be conveyed by the writer, there never was a clearer proof than this letter affords that the Earl of Durham was to be the sole judge of his own expenditure, as well as the sole administrator of it.—(Cheers.) The best judge is the Treasury, whose duty it is at all times to guard the public purse, and to keep within proper limits the ex penses likely to be incurred by uncontrolled power on the part of thosein high situations. The course that bas been pursued by it is, however, quite of a contrary nature. But admitting even that the natural de sire of the Noble Lord to make his establishment as effective as possible, and to provide amply for all connected with it, were repressed by the Treasury, I still feel bound to say that a due economy has not dictated the proceedings of Government in this respeot, and that the establish ment is much larger than the public service requires.— (Cheers.) There are first a chief secretary with I,eool. a year, then a military secretary with 700/., then two hundred other secretaries.—(Laughter.) He begged pardon, he meant two secretaries with 300/. a year each ; though perhaps, after all, it was only a forecast of what might in the event be the true number.—(Laughter.) Then there was the private secretary and the legal adviser. Now, if I are asked whether this establishment exceeds the necessity of the case, I hesitate not to say it does. There is the legal adviser, for instance. The Noble Lord opposite (Lord J. Russell) has said that he is not aware who is to fill the office. I am sorry for the ignorance of the Noble Lord. In that he is like the phmnix, the last of his species, alone—for he is the only man in this House who does not know it.—(Renewed laughter.) And as the Noble Lord is in such a deplorable state of darkness on the subject, I, a member of her Majesty's Opposition, will undertake to in form him and the Hight Hon. Gentleman beside him, on the part of that Opposition, who is to be the happy man that will fill the post of legal adviser to the mission. —(Great laughter, and cries •f " Name.") Well, then, the Hon. Member for Liskeard, who calls on me to name is the parson alluded to. When he said to me, " I shall be away from this House when the Controverted Election Bill comes en next for dis cussion," he gave me distinctly to understand that his face would be shortly directed towards the western possessions of her Majesty—and this declaration, coupled with the prevailing rumours on the subject, was tantamount in my mind to - a certainty.—(Laughter.) He goes out without gratuity, too, I presume. But this is beside the subject, for the House has nothing to do with the nature of the establishment only with its expense. I shall rejoice that the Honourable and Learned Gentleman is not the legal adviser—but if he is, then I do think that if these new appointments be too freely given to Members of Parliament, there will be a manifest invasion of the statute of Queen Anne, which provides that such offices are in consistent with the tenure of a seat in that House.—(hear, hear.) Now, what is the motion et my Noble Friend P It is that the establish. ment of Lord Gosford should serve as a precedent by which to regulate the establishment of Lord Durham. Is there anything unreasonable in that ?—(Cheers.) What is there paltry in it (Cheers.) The Hon. Member for Kilkenny said that the establishment of Lord Geaford was too large—that the expense of its maintenance was too great—and that it required to be very much reduced. Why does the Hon. Member let the establishment of Lord Durham pass, not alone without censure, but with his support and approbation? The Hon. Gentleman said that this was the first time he had ever heard of economy on this side of the House. Now, I am not in the habit of indulging much in panegyric of any party, still less of that with which I happen to be in connection; but I can show that when we of this aide of the House were in office as a Govern. ment our actions proved that this attack is altogether unfounded. It was part of ray office on that occasion to advise with the Earl of Aber. deen, then at the head of the Colonial Department, on the choice of tin individual to perform certain duties in Canada. Well, what did we do in the first instance? We selected in the first instance, a nobleman at rank and station in the country to fill the office. We selected Lord Am herst, a nobleman of the rank of Earl—a nobleman known to the coun. try—a nobleman who had held high rank and station before—a noble. man who had filled no obscure office, but who had been accustomed to the first; a nobleman who, as far as experience was concerned, had been accustomed to the gorgeous and unlimited establishments of our eastern possessions, and who, as far as remuneration was in question, had received the salary of Governor-General of India. This done, the next topic of consequence that we turned our attention to was the duties which devolved on him in the execution of this office. Lord Amherst was appointed then Governor-General of the Canadas, and de clared also his Majesty's High Contmissioeer. These titles are analo gous to these of Lord Durham, and here the analogy begins. I do not mean to say that they were likely to be so onerous as those of Lord Durham; on that head, indeed, I stn willing to make every fair al. lowance ; but what I de contend for is that the offices of both are aux. legous ; and that, as a consequence, whatever establishment answered for the one is sufficiently ample for the other. Now what was the na ture of Lord Amherst's establishment ? I shall state it to the House, and then call on the Hon. Gentleman who made so unnecessary an attack on the Conservative Government to compare the two to gether—that of Lord Amherst and that of Lord Durham—and then say conscientiously which Government, the Conservative or that which he supports, gave the strongest practical proof of economy. What was Lord Amherst's establishment ? He had Mr. Elliot, a single person alone, as a Secretary, to which was added, at the request of Mr. Elliot himself, a clerk, and he had a private Secretary for himself. That is, a public Secretary, a private Secretary, and a Clerk. This was his estab lishment. And now for his expenses. I believe I am quite right in saying that the expense of his outfit did not exceed 1,0001.—(Loud cheers.) I believe that all the arrangements for the mission were com pleted within that sum, and that Lord Amherst was on the point of sailing, and yet the total charge of voyage and equipment was not more than 1,0001. I protest, therefore, against the doctrine advanced by the Noble Lord opposite, and echoed by his supporters, that, bec ause we question the expense of public establishments, you have a r i g ht to answer us, because you choose to allege that our motives for quesliening you on the subject are political or personal hostility, or perhaps a fa'eling of disappointment.—(Cheers.) That charge, as against us, is totally Pn , - founded—(Cheers)—but this charge I prefer against you—you me vocatee of public economy—you watchful guardians of the public money in any other hands but your own—that when an Individual connected with you by politics or party feeling is appointed to a public situations you then show a strong tendency to forget the principle which on all other occasions you are so prone to promulgate.—(Cheers.) The poll. tieat accordance of the man obliterates from your mind those principles which you profess to have always entertained, and you sanction as a Government that which you uniformly condemned as an Opposition.-- (Cheers.) Then you call the questions we put to you on the subject paltry," and stigmatize our motives in putting them as " mean and malignant."—(Cheers.) With good reason may it be said of you, that you are not only succeeded by others in your seats in this House, but the time is come when you may be also succeeded by them in the ad. vocacy of the very principles you have so unaccountably deserted." — (Great cheering.) Mr. C. BULLER did not mean for a moment to deny that th e no ble Lord appointed to the Canadian mission had been pleased to Ask p.un in too flattering terms to perform some part of the subordinate duti e.s of the mission; neither did he mean to deny that he had at once ac cepted the office, and he was going with the Noble Earl to Canada B ut the Right Honourable Baronet was not right in the deductions he ha d made scorn the conversation alluded to as having passed between thet a. He (Mr. C. Buller) did) not mean to deceive the Right Honourable Baronet; but he thought that Right Honourable Gentleman should take a little more care that his imagination slid not lead him too often into such extraordinary conclusions. It was rather too large an infe rence for the Right Honourable Baronet to make that he (Mr. Buller) was the legal adviser of the mission, when up to twelve o'clock that day it had not been derided on who was to fill that office. All he (Mr. Buller) could say was, that he had not been nominated to it. With respect to the supposition thatithe Earl of Durham's expenses should be limited to the sum which had been granted to Lord Gosford, it was quite erroneous. It was supposed that all Lord Gosford's expen diture had been included in the sum stated stated in the return: but the fact was that two of the Commissioners, with salaries of 2,000 1 . a year each, had been, by his desire, left out.—(Hear, hear.) The en tire sum would, including these, amount to 8,000/. a year. The cases were not at all parallel, for their authorities were totally different. Lord Gosford was Gevernor-General of the Canadac, the Earl of Durham has been appointed Governor-General of all the colonies, with jurisdiction much greater than ever had been given before, and with powers of ge •ernment almost despotic ; whereas Lord Gosford did little more than govern the Assembly. Sir STRATFORD CANNING said, it seemed not a little strange that at the end of twenty-four years the friends of Lord Durham should be anxious to establish for him a power which he had been the first to question the propriety of in the case of another. Lord PALMERSTON sand that Lord Amherst went out, as Lord Durham was empowered, to charge whatever sum he might find necessary—but there the parallel ceased. Another Governor was already established in C.nada in Lord Amherst's time, with five thou sand pounds a year, and additional salaries to other offieers. Both Noble Lords had their secretaries, but there was no separate al. lowanee for outfit on a special mission. The difference of Lord Am herst's and the Earl of Durham's private circumstances had been alluded to; but the great difference proper for their consideration lay in the political circumstances of the case, and this was so great that they fully justified the House in allowing the Earl of Durham a legal adviser. Besides, Lord Amherst only went as Commissioner to settle some trivial disputes in Lower Canada; not with power to make or alter laws c' v Constitutions as the Earl of Durham did. He thought the Noble Mar quis might as well have given the Whip notice of this attempt, for they had gained nothing by their motion. Captain WOOD explained. He had not intended to impute persons' motives to any one. The Marquis of CHANDOS replied. The previons question was then put. On the first reso:ution the' House divided, and the numbers were— For the resolution 133 For the previous question Majority against the resolution The other resolutions were then put from the Chair, and the previoUs question having been moved on each were severally negatived withou. a division. EVESHAM ELECTION PETITION. The minutes of evidence taken upon the Evesham Election Ped tie3 were ordered to be laid on the table of the House. The Haileybury College Bill was read a third time. se The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the 1 - ° u adjourned at Half-past Twe o'Clock. CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT• Edward Goriest, described as " gentleman," who surrendered to tae his trial on Monday, was charged with having committed perjury. From the statement of Counsel, and the evidence gone into, it 21 ' . reared that the defendant had been plaintiff, and conducted a prosecution at the Surrey Assizes, held at Croydon, against Joseph Sharp, Watson, and others, and in the course of the proceedings had stibpc!: need several witnesses ; one of them, Henry Gollings, a licensed vietutd ler. The alleged perjury was charged to have been committe d by the defendant in swearing to an affidavit, to procure costs, before one of t " Masters. In that affidavit he swore that be had paid Gollings guinea and one shilling upon his subpoena. The Court directed an a stnittal. Thomas Norton, 21, labourer, was indicted for stealing a horse, t h e property of Alfred Hill, in Essex, on the 15th of December last. IL' Recorder summed up, and the jury returned a verdict of guilty. POLICE INTELLIGENCE• W- STREET. Rebecca Butler, a dealer in marine stores Great Wild-strect . , wag brought up by Kirkman, of the F division, c!;arged with having in her ly° possession a portrait of Sir Walter Raleigh, of which sh e could not $ a satltisfactory appeared account. from the statement of Thomas Mesnard, apicptiuerteurdees:r:: in Wardour.stront, Soho, that on Friday week he hung the duced at his door, and in the evening it was taken away , He °t.. diately gave notice of the circumstance to the trade, and saw it Wl"' last night in the possession of Thomas Foreman, a picture liner in UUS sell-court, to whom it was brought by a female named Hannah Knight. who left it with him to ascertain the value of it, and by whom it was purchased for 4s. from the prisoner. In answer to the charge the prisoner said she purchased the picture from a person named Griffiths, for half.a.crown, about a fortnight backs and an entry was made of it in her day.book. Upon referring to the book the statement so far was found to be correct, and the prisoner was ordered to be remanded till Thursdal nest , Thomas Warren, describing himself as a tailor out of emp l o r was charged by Mary Derkin and Bridget Flaherty, with indecently assaulting them. It appearid that the complainants were proceeding with their baske.tse to market, at four o'clock yesterday morning, and when passing undertn.d piazzas, Covent Garden, the prisoner sprang upon them as they A ° P l " at a coffee stand, and after laying hold of them in the most jodeeie,e. manner, put his hands under their clothes and pinched there' t he statement of the complainants was corroborated by constable 60 of F division, who added that the prisoner had been drinking, and conduct towards the complainants was most scandalous. The prisoner said he was not aware of having committed an ntrence of such a heinous description, as he had been drinking. • tr ee, Mr. TIVYFORD, with whom was Mr. WITHAM, a county Nan " ordered him to pay a tine of 40s. or be sent for one month, to the Ho of of Correction. MEMOIRS OF THE BEAUTIES OF THE: COU.„I, or CHARLES I.—The Third Part of the new and cheaper editi" of this attractive work is now before the public. The lett e ; press is full of that colloquial and anecdotical gossip w bic ,,„ - at once so fascinating and so piquant, and well sustains P4"4.--1: Jameson's high reputation as a graphic painter of chsrac te j and a polished and sprightly narrator of personal memo irs a incident. The portraits comprised in this Part are those "; the Countess of Chesterfield, one of the fair principals of Gramont's celebrated story of the " bas verts"—Miss Bag the irreproachable wife of two libertine Lords—the interestill and exemplary Countess of Rochester—and the mild an gentle Miss Lawson. LADIES' GOLD WA TCHE,: n d A variety of excellent and carefully finished Ladies' Secon d-i t" Gold Watches, many of them in accordance with the lates t tasic, with Gold Dials, Jewelled, &c., are offered for selection, pric e fro :: Six to Eight Guineas each, at T. Cox SAVORY'S, l‘„' atc r maker, Gold and Silversmith, 47, Cornhill, London (Seven I/ 0° 9 from Graeechurch-street). N.B.—Second-hand Watches purchased in oxehange• BIRTHS. On the 30th ult., Mrs. Goren, of the Priory, Battersea, $ daughter. On the 30th ult., at Feltham Lodge, near Hounslow, the lady Of T. Theobald, Esq., of a daughter. At New Cross, Surrey, on the 31st ult., Mrs. W. J. Corma 6 “ of a daughter. On the 31st ult., at Wimbledon, the lady of E. Holroyd , E 6 g' of a daughter. On :the 26th ult., at Downes, the lady of James Wentwort h Buller, of a daughter. On the 29th ult., at Herne-hill, Mrs. Bicknell, of a daughter. MARRIED. On the 24thult., at St. George's, Hanover-square, Mr. 1":1 R. Luce, of Weymouth, to Emma, only daughter of Mr. Redfor of Hampton-court. DIED. On the 31st ult., in Kennington-oval, after a short illness, An ne the wife of Mr. Wm. Pettet, Lancaster-place, Strand. c , At Rotterdam, on the 30th of March last, after a short i llo o lo Mrs. Hall, in the 77th year of her age, relict of the Rev. Hall, most deservedly beloved and deeply lamented. On the 29th ult., at Chelsea, aged 66, Mr. J. M. Adams , late of the Strand. On the 31st ult., John Parker, Esq., of Old Broad-street' in his 6th ear. On the y 30th ult., at Chiswick, Mary Read, wife of Wm• P y kej Es+, aged 76. MONTHLY MILITARY OBITUARY. a t Generale—Earl of Dalhousie, G.G.8., Col. of the 26 ;W a d Dalhousie Castle ; Arabin, late R. Irish Art., Cullens "° House, near Dublin. Lieut.-Generals—Sir E. Barnes, G.C.8., Col. of the 3 1 . /3 1'. London; Dlillar, Director-General of the Field Train Der' Art. Hastings. Majors—Addison, Unatt. ; Garvock, Sec. to the R. Mil. Co!' Aberdeen. Captains—Brocke, 1 Bn. 1 F. on passage to Ireland ; Carruther6 67 F., Harwich • Bowlby, 90 F., Portsmouth ; Mainwaring , h ' R. Art., Thornhill, near Southampton ; Speer, ditto. 9 7 F. , Lieutenants—Adams, 16 E., Bengal ; Eddeo ( Adj. ), Cape of Good Hope ; Nicolls, R. Afr. C., at sea ; As lett ' p. R. Mar. ; Stebo, h. p. 2 D r ., T a rb o lt en , Ayreshire ; B is h. p. 1 F. ; Barnewall, h. p. 35 F. ; Hunter, h. p. 63 F. `— burn, Ireland. Second Lieutenants and Ensigns—Munro ( Adj.) 5 F. C,c' rf ;, Dickenson, 48 F., Bin; Acton, 53 F., Dublin ; Carey , 6 ' Ceylon. t It. Paymasters—Sir T. Le Breton, lato 3 R. Vet. Bn. ; Afur o p. 7 F. London. Argyle Quartermasters—Bean, h. p. 3 Dr. ; Macdougal , h . p• Fenc. Medical Department—lnsp. Gen. of Hoe Patrick, M.D., 11. P' Edinburgh ; Surgeon Adams, Forres, N.B. ; fiurgeon Gtof don, h. p. Staff; Surgeon E. Smith, h. p. 2 Gar. lin,l3llnom. Ass. Surgeon Hawthorn, M.D. Staff, at sea ; Ass. Surgeon ford, h. p. 50 F., Naas. Chaplain—Maclean, h. p. R. Art. Barrackmaster—Picher. 13 Memorandum.—The death of Lieut. A. A. Gapper, h. P. F. was reported by mistake in the Army List of Feb. last. London: Printed and Published by AfURDO YOU of Ns. 112, Strand, at The Stilt Office, No. 11', Strand, in the count/ of Middlesex.—Wednesday, April 4, 1538.