The Sun. — London, England, 1836-08-13 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF COMMONS, AUGUST 12. The SPEAKER took the Chair at the usual hour. Mr. BROTHERTON brought up the report on the West minster Small Debts Bill. Mr. OSWALD presented two petitions from the proprie tors and lessees of print and dye works in Scotland, complain ing of the report of the Select Committee on the Salmon Fishery ( Scotland), and praying that no proceedings might be taken upon it. He understood a Bill was to be introduced that evening, with a clause affecting the rights of the peti tioners, and he hoped the House would object to it. Mr. P. M. STE WART, Chairman of the Committee,would not then enter into a discussion of the merits of the clause in question. The proper time for doing so would be when the Bill he would that night introduce came before the House next session ; then he and other Members of the Com mittee would be prepared to support the clause in ques tion. He would now only assure the Hon. Member that salmon were as nice as to their water as were the punch drinkers of Glasgow.—(A laugh.) Mr. A. TREVOR presented a petition from the proprietors of a Joint Stock Banking Company, praying that private banks might be subjected to the same investigation as they were. Mr. KEMP presented a petitio3, praying for a Ten Hours' Factory Bill. Mr. SHAW would not trouble the House now upon the subject, as he had already stated his opinions, and the House had thought proper to adopt them. Upon the motion of Mr. LYNCH a Conference was agreed to with the Lords upon the amendments of the Civil Bills Court (Ireland) Bill, Mr. WILKS postponed the presentation of the petition of which he had given notice till next session. ADJOURNNIE NT OF THE HOUSE. Mr. BARING moved that the House at its rising should adjourn to 12 o'clock to-morrow. Mr. AGLIONBY wished to know what was the particular business for which that motion was made; it was a most un usual day for the House to sit, and a most unusual hour. Mr. BARING said it was for the purpose of disposing of the public business, and taking unopposed Bills. Mr. AGLIONBY wished to know whether it would he competent for other Members as well as himself to proceed with Bills that had been only partly carried through. Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE made a few observations which were totally inaudible in the gallery. Mr. TREVOR wished to know whether unopposed Bills alone were to be taken, or whether opposed ones would also be proceeded with. Mr. BARING said if the House sat to-morrow it would of course he in the power of any Member to endeavour to bring fcr.vard any measure he might think proper. The subject then dropped. MARRIAGE BILL. Lord PALMERSTON presented a petition from the Dis senters of Witnbonrne, in Hampshire, in favour of the Marriage and Registration Bills, and praying for the total abolition of church rates. STAMP DUTIES BILL. Mr. WALTER said he was under the necessity of call ing the attention of the House to an occurrence that tool: place yesterday. He had conic down to that House at half past four o'clock, the usual hour of commencing public busi ness, with the intention of addressing a few words to the House noon the second reading cf the Stamp Duties Bill. He found to his utter surprise that the Bill had been read a third time, and many Members who, even at that early hour, had come before himself, were utterly ignorant that the Bill had passed. The bill stood in the middle of the Government notices, but it was picked out first ; and though, undoubtedly, on the preceding night it was understood that the usual forma lities would be dispensed with, yet it did not from thence follow that an opportunity would not have been afforded for offering some suggestions before the Bill should pass. He should appeal to the justice of the House, when the ge.os'sest personal reflections bad been cast upon a Member of that House elsewhere, if they would stop the mouth of that Member if he attempted to reply, or at least to explain. He did not intend yesterday, nor did he to-day, to taie credit for the suggestions he bad offered on the right when the former Stamp Duty Bill passed through that House; but he conceived, that in consequence of those suggestions, he had been personally attacked, and much obloquy had been rapt upon him, which he hoped that H:)use v.-ould give him an op portunity of repelling. From the report he had seen, the per son who had used those expressions appeared to have intimated that the operation of that most unjust law which had now been excluded from the Stamp Duty Bill, might, perhaps, have had the effect of impeaching his (Mr. Walter's) veracity, or ; giving pain to his vanity, by the discovery that he had been con nected with the press. He could say with respect to such im peachment of his veracity, if such an insinuation bad been in tended, that it was in itself a falsehood.—(lle: e ) No dis covery could be made that could have impeached his veracity, but, on the contrary, would have shown the utter ignorance of him who sought to impeach it. It could not have injured his vanity, because he had never disavowed that, at one period of his life, he did conduct a public journal, which had been sometimes alluded to in that House ; on the contrary, he had felt then as he would now, proud of such an applica tion of those talents, be they more or less, which Providence bad blessed him with.---( A laugh.) It had been also said that his origin was humble. He only wished the person who had made use of that expression bad looked hack to the founder of his own family—a humble practitioner in the law ; neither had any one member of his race been distin guished by any act, until his Mejesty, unfortunately as he (Mr. Walter) thought, had called him to his councils. But if the secresy of their private lives were to be invaded, and laid before the public, he trusted that his accuser would be found to have been the more foolish fellow of the two.— ( Great laughter, and cries of hear, hear.) He moved the question of which he had given notice, namely, that the hour at which business was to commence should he stated in the public notices as well as the hour at which Mr. Speaker was to take the chair ; but as he had merely given notice of this in order to bring forward a matter personal to himself, he should withdraw the motion. Colonel SIBTHORP rose, but was interrupted by The SPEAKER, who asked the Hon. and Gallant Mem• ber if he intended to move any thing? Colonel SIBTHORP replied in - the negative, and imme liately sat down. TRADE WITH JAVA. Mr. P. M. STE WART had to bring before the House the übstance of a petition of great importance to the mercantile aterests of the country, which had been presented by him the 27th June ; and he regretted that so important a peti on had been presented at so late a period of the session. It ad been signed by all the principal manufacturers and mer hants of Glasgow in the course of a few hours, and it related ) the conduct of the Dutch with regard to the Colony of tva, ceded to them by the English in 1814. The petition t forth the particular agreement that had been entered into ith them on that cession, and which was most favourable to e trade of England, from the liberal 'way in which she had ,ven up the colony; but the terms of that agreement ad been violated in such a way as to have almost destroyed le trade of England with that colony. The petitioners con 'eded by praying that steps would be taken to put an end to a stem which was derogatory to the character of this country, AI most injurious to her commercial interests. It appeared "'flat in 1811 the island of Java had been taken from the it being then under the same Government as the Cape ad Hope, taken in the same war, and it was afterwards to the Dutch, they paying a million sterling for what . ned in domestic parlance the fixtures of the island. ciple laid down in the Treaty was, that all goods a Dutch ships should pay a duty of 6 per cent. 'ods coming in other ships S per cent. That arrange been made in 1816. In the year 1818, the Dutch ners being jealous of the trade the English were a, raised the per centage on goods brought by Dutch 3 per cent., and on all others, including English, to nt. Notwithstanding that the English still kept the 'a proclamation, was issued by the Governor, taking duty on goods imported in Dutch vessels, and leav aty of 16 per cent, upon English and other goods ; r this disadvantage two-thirds of the trade remained ands of the English, which raised the jealousy of the .o such a pitch, that in 1824 the then notorious Gover proclamation, raised the duties upon English goods to cent., while the whole was taken off Dutch goods ; s high duty was not only imposed upon those goods were afterwards imported, but actually on those then In the island. Then came the treaty of March, 1824, 'ion of which was complained of by every merchant ,facturer in England. That treaty was founded upon of free trade. It provided that the duty levied on goods should not be more than double that imposed .etch goods, and that where there was no duty upon goods the English should pay no more than 6 ;nt. Now the Dutch goods were free, and English .s were burdened with a duty of 25 per cent., which re the mode of levying it was raised to from 30 to 40 c cent. The merchants now came and prayed the House and the Government to have that treaty faithfully acted upon. He had read word for word of that treaty, which was, of air treaties entered into by this country, the one that ought to be the least misunderstood. The object of that treaty was free trade, and he was sure his Noble Friend would give it effect. He was sorry to say that the feeling that existed before that treaty existed now ; in fact, the mercantile interests of the country had been duped, which he was sure they would not be much longer by the exertions of the Noble Lord and his Right Honourable Friend the Secretary of the Board of Trade. Vic question now was, whether the Dutch Treaty, which had laid down for their own interpretation that the flag was to re gulate the principle and not the origin of the goods, was to be carried into effect or not. They had interpreted the Treaty in another manner, however; when they wished to encourage the manufactures • of Ghent, they raised the duty on all the articles which were manufactured in this country. He would only ask the Noble Lord to satisfy not himself, but the great commercial and manufacturing interests of this coun try, by telling them that they should have not only redress for the future with regard to this great and growing trade, which amounted to many millions, but also that they should have compensation for the past, for the unjust and unfair way in which they had been treated by the Dutch Government. He was sure that the Noble Lord would not only insist upon satisfaction, but that practically British interests would be vin dicated, and that they should hear no more of such flagrant violations of the rights of their fellow-subjects, and of the dig nity of the Crown. Ile would conclude by moving as an amendment to the Order of the Day, that the petition pre sented on the 27th of June be taken into consideraton. Lord PALMERSTON said that his Hon. Friend had un doubtedly called the attention of the House to a very great grievance which this country had sustained from the hands of the Dutch Government.—( Hear, bear.) It could not be de nied that for a course of years the Dutch Government bad distinctly violated the stipulations of a solemn treaty. (Loud cheers.) As his Honourable Friend had so well explained in what those violations consisted, he (Lord P.) w 0,4 1..... not intrude upon the House, or take up their time in recapitulating that complete and clear explanation. He had stated most justly and truly that, whereas by the Treaty all articles chartered by British subjects in British ships should pay a certain duty in proportion to the duty imposed upon articles imported in Dutch ships—in those cases the Dutch authorities had exacted from British subjects a higher amount of duty than by the treaty they were authorised to exact. This subject had been matter of representation from the British Government for a great number of years past, and therefore his Hon. Friend was entitled to come to that House to ask some explanation on the part of the Government to satisfy him that there was a fair prospect that the grievances of our fellow subjects in this respect would be redressed, and that the time had arrived at which this House ought to interfere to obtain redress.—(Hear, hear.) He thought he would satisfy the Honourable Gentleman that at present no step was required to be taken by the House, because he believed he was at present in a condition to state to his Honourable Friend, that of late a disposition had been manifested by the Dutch Government to do justice in this matter. The Dutch Government at last having been forced to admit that the practice which had been pursued of levying duties was not consistent with the treaty, they wished to render the practice, at least in one respect, conformable to the treaty, and that a proper proportion of duties should be established. Where our Government paid 25 per cent. the Dutch would pay 12k, and where the Dutch paid no duty at all we should only pay 6 per cent. But there was one subject of difference existing between the two Governments. The Dutch Government had declared that they interpreted the treaty as establishing a criterion of the difference of duties— the nationality of the articles imported. He contended on the other hand, that the criterion for the difference of duty was not the nationality of the articles imported, but the na tionality of the merchants, and ships by which the articles were imported.—( Hear.) Whether the one interpretation or the other would be most in favour of the industry and interests of this country he would not take upon himself to determine. He agreed with his Hon. Friend that the English Govern ment, in restoring the colony of Java to the Dutch, had done an act of splendid national generosity—( Hear, hear) — because the Dutch would have no right to complain if the British Government, having taken the island in a war in which Holland was opposed to us, had retained possession of it. His Hon. Friend was, he thought, entitled to say that the Dutch Government had not shewn that they entertained a proper sense of the generosity of England in systematically and for so long a period of time depriving us of those national advantages which had been conferred by the treaty of 1824. It was often a reproach to the Dutch that in the conduct of of their colonial possessions, they were actuated by a narrow view to their own interests, which was not creditable to their national character. Wherever they had colonies. they were the most exclusive of all monopolists. Of that principle, . _ which was more or less the policy of every nation, they had no right to complain ; but they certainly had when a nation de parted from those engagements which she had most solemnly pledged herself to fulfil. A negotiation had been entered into with the Dutch Government, and he by no means despaired that they should succeed in obtaining redress ; and that their trade would be carried on in strict accordance with the terms of the treaty. That being the case, he was sure his Hon. Friend and the House would feel that it would be not only departing from the usual practice of Parlia ment, but must inconvenient, if the House would inter fere between the Government and . a pending negotiation. If the Government succeeded in their object, it would be better than to have the interposition of Parliament. If they failed, it would be their duty to lay before Parliament what had taken place, and then ask for their opinion on the flatter. Ile was, however, encouraged to hope, frog► the manner in which the regociations had lately been conducted, that Holland would act with good faith, and would do full justice to England. Air. HUME was very glad hi 3 Hon. Friend had brought this matter before the House, for a grosser breach of engage ment had never taken place, and he thought the Government had been very negligent in not forcing its fulfilment. In 133#, he and Sir Charles Forbes told the Government of that day how vilely they were deceiving themselves and the country. No treaty had ever been executed in India by Holland, and he then stated that it would not. In 1616, Lord i;astlereagh gave away the most valuable possession we had in India. Java was the only island which could support herself, and yield a revenue. They ought to have waited the arrival of Sir Stamford Raf fles, who was well acquainted with the whole subject. In place of doing so, they acted with guilty participation, and gave up one of the most valuable of our conquests. Six months did not go by after the passing of that treaty be fore it was violated ; the Government, tLerefore, must be con sidered to blame for allowing such things to be. He believed . that the Government or this country hid by their diplomatic agents conceded more than America would have done, as he felt convinced if the treaty had been entered into with that country they would have insisted upon its being performed. In his opinion, the Government ought to withdraw their diplomatic agent.—(Cheers.) He believed, that although no country ever paid more for diplomatic agents than this, that none had bad their commerce so little protected. He hoped that ere Parliament met again, there would be something decisive done upon the subject. Mr. 'ROBINSoN thought that the lion. Member fcr Lancaster 'would do well to follow the advice of the Noble Lord opposite, and not persevere in his motion. lie trusted the Government would perform that duty which the commercial interests of the country required of them. If the Hon. Gentleman should again bring the subject before the HOLM, he could assure him he would have the support of all the commercial and manufacturing interests. Sir J. H. REID was intimately connected with the Island that had been alluded to, and he held in his hands letters which confirmed the statements that had been made. 111 r. P. MAXWELL expressed his complete satisfaction at what the Noble Lord had stated to the House, and he knew the petitioners would be satisfied with the Noble Lord's fair and open explanation. CIVIL BILL COURTS (IRELAND) BILL. Mr. LYNCH appeared at the Bar, and informed tho Speaker that the Lords had appointed a Conference with the Commons. to take place in Committee-room No. 5, on the subject of the Lords' Amendments to the Civil Bill Courts (Ireland) Bill. Several Members then left the House for the purpose of holding the Conference. Mr. LYNCH, and the other Managers of the Conference, appeared at the Bar, and reported that they had left the Bill, and reasons for disagreement with the Lords. STAMP DUTIES BILL. A message from the Lords reported that their Lordships had agreed to the Newspaper Stamp Duty Bill without any amendment.—( Cheers and laughter.) On the first Order of the Day being read, Colonel SIBT HO R P rose to move that Motions and Orders of the Day he taken on alternate days, in the order they stood on the paper. He was one of the most regular at tendants in the House, and he had a motion on the books since last session which he bad not been able to bring on—besides, it was matter of very great inconvenience that the notices were taken so irregularly—no one ever knew what was to be brought on first; last night, after the first and second order, they had skipped over to tile seventeenth, and then to the twenty-eighth. He was not one who would stand in the way of the Government business, but there ought to be some time and opportunity allowed for private Members to bring forward those motions which their consti tuents expected from them. He had frequently been in the House up to twenty minutes past two o'clock in the morn ing, without ever having seen anything in the shape of a sand wich.--(A laugh.) It was very hard, in his opinion, to be kept in such total ignorance of what was to take place, when the Noble Lord had the opportunity of dropping from the Ist to the 26th Order of the Day. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that with respect to motions on Notice Days, they were always taken in regular suc cession; therefore, with respect to them, no motion was required. With respect to Orders of the Day, what the Honourable Member had proposed had never been adopted hitherto ; there had always been an opportunity given to the Government to move any Order of the Day they pleased. It was not possible, in his opinion, to make any absolute rule on the subject, because there might be an Order of the Day on some important adjourned debate, which would of course have to be taken first. At the same time he must say, that he thought the Hon. and Gallant Colonel had done all he could. He was of opinion, however, that more notice should be given than there was. He had endea voured to arrange the thing as well as he could, as he had given his notices when the House was full. BENEFICES PLURALITIES' BILL. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that after considering the state of the question, and that in the end he sh ou ld h ave to take the way of prolonging the session to a late period, or of running the risk of discussing this very important Bill in a thin House, he had come to the opinion that it would be better to postpone the consideration of the Benefices and Pluralities Bill till next Session. Mr. HUME did not deny that the Bill contained some very important reforms, but he hoped that before that House as sembled again, a branch of Church Reform most essen tial, viz. the uniting and separating of benefices so as to pro vide an adequate congregation for every living, would be taken into consideration by the Commissioners. Although he felt strong objection to the progress of this Bill, he could assure the Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) that no man would more readily assist him in carrying into effect Reform when applied in its proper place. Lord SAND ON regretted that the opposition of some Hon. Members on the Ministerial side of the House had succeeded in preventing the passing of this measure. He hoped that those Hon. Member s who had opposed this Bill would take an opportunity of reading this Bill, and of endeavouring to understand what it contained. He wished to know whether the Noble Lord (Russell) intended to abandon the Bill alto gether? Lord J. RUSSELL by no means intended to abandon the Bill. On the contrary he hoped, taking the extension of time b give the House time f o r a fuller o and which ndjusterhe proposed, to knowledge of subject, and arriving at a more satisfactory arrangement for the benefit of the Church than could be attained by a hasty enactment at the close of the Session. The Exchequer Bills Bill was then read a second time. The Creditors ( Scotland) Bill was read a third time, and passed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER postponed the consideration of the Pensions Bill till Monday. TITHE COMPOSITION (IRELAND) BILL. On the Order of the Day being read for going into Com mittee on the Tithe Composition (Ireland) Bill, Mr. LEADER had very strong objections to the passing of this Bill, es it would have the effect of relinquishing alto gether the claim which the Government and the country had for the repayment of the million which was advanced during the Administration of Earl Spencer for the relief, as was sup posed, of the vitarving Protestant Clergy of Ireland. Now, when that money was advanced it was distinctly stated by Lord Althorp, not only that it was for the exclusive benefit of the distressed Irish Clergy, but that the money must be reclaimed, and the payment of it insisted on, when a proper season should arrive. So far, however, from either of those pledges having been fulfilled, the fact turned out to be that the greater portion of the money did not go the relief of the distressed Irish Clergy at all, but found its way into the pockets of a number of rich individuals who were the lay im propriators of tithes ; and now, by the present Bill, the Go vernment were about to violate the other part of the pledge, by surrendering all claim for the repayment of the money.— (Here the Hon. Member read a long list of Noblemen, digni taries of the Church, and other large impropriators, who were the recipients of large sums from the million advanced.) He did not wish to insist on the immediate repayment of the money, but he thought that the right to it should not be given up. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that his Hon. Friend was quite mistaken in supposing that the present Bill went to relinquish all the right on the part of the Government to reclaim the payment of the million that had been advanced on the occasion alluded to. The Bill did no such thing. It only went to suspend for the present any pro ceedings for the recovery of the sums advanced. He never should be a party to relinquishing the claim of the country on this money until the terms upon which it was lent should be fulfilled to the letter, and that was conceding the principle of appropriation.—( Cheers.) It was an error also of his Hon. Friend to imagine that the money was advanced for the relief and assistance of the distressed Protestant clergy of Ireland, because it must have been known to every one, that the mo ment the Bill was passed for granting that loan, every proprie tor of tithe in Ireland, ldy as well as clerical, became entitled to his share of it. The House would, he was sure, agree with him, that in the cases of clergymen—.and there were, he was happy to find, many such in Ireland—who were patiently wait ing the peaceable settlement of the tithe question, instead of harassing the poor people by the enforcement of their tithes— in those eases he thought it would be a great hardship to look for the repayment of the sums lent them. A wide distinction should be drawn between such men and those who Nv ere using all their efforts to disturb the tranquillity of the country by the enforcement of tithes by Exchequer processes.—( Cheers.) Af.er a few words from Mr. HUME and Mr. G. PRICE, Mr. LEADER was perfectly satisfied with the explanations given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he should no longer object to the Bill. The Bill then went through Committee. The Poor Law Loans Bill then went through Committee. The Militia Pay Bill was read a third time. On the third reading of the Corporate Property (Ireland, Bill, Mr. D. W. HARVEY approved of the principle of this Bill, which provided a safeguard against the abuses of cor porations, but wished to know why the same provisions were not extended to England. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said this Bill was rendered necessary in consequence of the failure of the Municipal Reform Bill for Ireland, and the consequent continuance of the old Corporations, which had been admit tedly guilty of great delinquencies. I n E ng l an d th e Muni cipal Reform Bill had passed. After a few words from the SOLICITOR-GENERAL, Mr. D. W. HARVEY, and Lord J. RussELL, The Bill was read a third time. The Lords' amendments to the Grand Juries (Ireland) Bill were then agreed to. - The Public Works (Ireland) Bill was read a second time. The Municipal Elections Bill and the Copyright Compen sations (Ireland) Bill went through Committee. On the motion of Mr. HUME, the Coal Trade Bill was read a third time. JEWISH CIVIL DISABILITIES. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the Order of the Day for going into Committee on the Jewish Civil Disabilities Bill. dr. TREVOR moved as en amendment, that the Order of the Dly be read that day three months. Col. SIBTH R P seconded the amendment. Mr. BORT HWICK supported the amendment. Mr. G. PRICE likewise supported it. The House divided— For the original motion 42 For the Amendment Majority The question being put that the Speaker do leave the Chair, Colonel SIBTHOR I' again expressed his opposition to the Bill. The Chancellor of the Exchequer did not antici pate that this Bill could be successful. His object, and that of those with whom he acted, was only to get popularity. Mr. A. TREVOR must enter his solemn protost against the Bill. Mr. 13ORTHWICK opposed the Bill, not as a Christian ; but as a member of the State. The SPEAKEI having left the Chair, the clauses were agreed to. Report to-morrow. PRISONERS' COUNSEL BILL. The Order of the Day having been read for taking into into consideration the Lords' amendments to the Prisoners' Counsel Bill, Mr. E WART said that the Lords' amendments to this Mil took away the provision which in all criminal cases, gaYe the last word to the Counsel for the prisoner. The Select Committee which reported on the Bill gave it as their opinion that if the last word was taken away from the prisoner, it would leave the law worse than it was. This was the opinion expressed by Lord Lyndhurst himself in 1826, though it was at the suggestion of that Noble Lord that the other House made the alteration in the Bill. He was disposed to propose that they should disagree with the Lords in that amendment, and insert the original clause. But in the hope that the Bill might pass, he would now merely propose that in all cases of felony and misdemeanour the prisoner might have the last word. Lord J. RUSSELL had received a long letter from Lord Denman upon the subject. The opinion of that Noble Lord was that it would be better to pass the Bill as amended than to have it lost. The number of speeches might be left to future legislation, and his Noble Friend was of opinion that the Se lect Committee, as regarded the last word, had gone further than seas intended. However, as he (Lord J. Russell) recom mended the appointment of the Select Committee, he was ready to support the proposition of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Ewart.) He should be sorry if the Bill was lost. Mr. EWART'S amendment to the Lords' amendments was agreed to, and a Conference appointed. THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, AUGUST 13, 1836. son, Lord Fitzgerald, and another Noble Peer whose name we did not catch. On the return of the managers, The Earl of WESTMEATH moved that the Commons' reasons for disagreeing to their Lordships' amendments be taken into consideration. The reasons having been read, Lord PL UNKET trusted that the Noble Lord (West meath) would not persevere in his amendment. It would be most prejudicial to the interests of the tenants, and would be most inconvenient in practice. After a few words from Lord WYNFORD, . . Lord FITZGERALD and VESCI would suggest to his Noble and Learned Friend near him not to insist upon the amendment. With every wish to co-operate with the Noble Lords with whom he had always acted, he thought, on this occasion, there were circumstances to justify their Lordships in departing from the principles which had always guided them in adhering to their amendments. The Marquis of WE STME ATH had always considered the interests of the landlords identical with those of the the tenants.—(Hear.) The Civil Bill Court was in itself an anomaly, and an increase had been made in its jurisdiction from time to time by Parliament, and was now one of the most important in Ireland. He denied that the argu ments of the Noble and Learned Lord ( Plunket) were of any force as regarded the parole agreements between landlords and tenants. The question was then put, and negatived without a di vision. PRISONS. The Duke of RICHMOND rose for the purpose of asking his Noble Friend the Lord President of the Council several questions with respect to this important subject. In the last session of Parliament a Select Committee of the House was appointed, for the purpose of inquiring into the subject of prison discipline, and it represented that the gaols of the me tropolis were in a most disgraceful condition. He should call the attention of the House to the Report of the Select Com mittee. That Report stated that the number of juvenile of fenders had greatly increased, and this fact he would press upon the most serious attention of the Government. Many of these children, at the age of ten years, were sent to prison for stealing an apple, or some such trifling offence, and this generally after they had been deserted and abandoned by their parents. Now it was impossible to reform these children if they were sent to prison ; and he was rejoiced to know that se veral associations had been formed in various parts of the country, but at Warwick in particular, for the purpose of send ing these offenders to school, and not to prison. The conse quences which had resulted from these associations were of the most satisfactory nature, and were admitted on all hands. The experiment of sending juvenile offenders to the Colonies had also been most successful. The questions which he had to ask were, whether his Majesty's Government had taken into its consideration the propriety of attending to the Report of the Select Committee recommending that juvenile offenders should be kept separate from other offenders—whether the Government had tried the experiment of sending juvenile offenders to schools—and whether any steps had been taken to get rid of the hulk for the reception of boys at Chatham ? The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was fully authorised to state that his Noble Friend at the head of the Home Depart ment had directed his attention to every one of the subjects referred to by the Noble Duke, and was prepared to give his utmost attention to the subject during the approaching recess, with a view to carry into effect the Report of the Committee, and of the Inspectors of Prisons, with respect to the establish ment of prisons for tho reception of juvenile offenders. He was informed that more offences were committed by juvenile offenders in England than in any other country of Europe, for in the course of one single year no less than two or three thousand boys and girls, under the age of sixteen years, were committed to prison, and of those he believed there was a con siderable proportion, not less than eight hundred, under the age of twelve years. It was a great satisfaction for him (the Marquis of Lansdowne) to state, that he knew that many of the most apparently abandoned children had been so effectually reformed, after a detention of a year at school, they had been sent out to the colonies useful and valuable subjects, and that the best accounts had been received with respect to their con duct. He had no objection to try the experiment on a larger scale, and to provide the necessary means by law. He was also disposed to give a larger discretion to magistrates in the application of the sentence of the law to juvenile offenders. The Earl of RIPON confirmed all that had fallen from the Noble Duke. Here the conversation dropped. POST-OFFICE BILL. Viscount DUNCANNON moved the second reading of this Bill, and in doing so stated that he should make a few observations respecting the main object of the Bill, namely, the substitution of three Commissioners for the Postmaster- General. This subject had been.under the consideration of Parliament for nearly half a century, for five or six Commis sions had sat since 1777. The Noble Viscount, after briefly alluding to the proceedings under those Commissions, stated that all the Commissions had come to the conclusion that the establishment of the Post-office was had, but they did not all agree as to the mode in which it should be remedied. Look ing, therefore, at the manner in which the Admiralty, the Woods and Forests, the Customs were managed, the Govern ment thought that it would be better to entrust the manage ment of the Post-office to three Commissioners, instead of one individual. He, therefore, trusted their Lordships would agree to the second reading of the Bill. The Duke of RICHMOND said, that after the statement he had made to their Lordships on a former occasion, they could not be surprised that he should now rise to move as an amendment, that this Bill be read a second time this day six months. He had been curious to learn from the Noble Vis count on what grounds he could support this Bill. It had been said that but little had been done to alter the old system; but surely it had been forgotten that in the year 1830 the whole Post-office Department was entirely reorganized and remodelled under the very useful recommendations of Lord Wallace's Committee in 1817. These recommenda tions had been carried into effect and execution so far as the Lords of the Treasury would consent to do so. If the Noble Viscount wished to make the Post-office Department popular, it was only necessary to give the Postmaster. General a greater latitude of revenue, for at the present time the Chancellor of the Exchequer would not permit him to spend more than a certain sum, except he expected to obtain an adequate advantage. He (the Duke of Richmond) denied, as had been stated, that Lord Wallis's committee had inquired into everyPdepartment of the Post-office ; neither did he believe, though he had waded through the reports, that the supposed frauds at Holyhead had been carried into execution. But even if that had formerly been the case, the evil had been remedied, in asmuch as the packet department at Holyhead had been placed under the controul of the Board of Admiralty, and he had the authority of his Noble Friend the present Postmaster-General (who by indisposition was unfortunately prevented from being in his place) • for stating thus publicly that the frauds sup posed to exist at Holyhead to a very great degree had been disproved. He (the Duke of Richmond) mentioned this in corroboration of his former statement. He contended that before the Noble Viscount asked the House to consent to read the Bill a second time, he ought to have laid on the table the whole of the evidence which had been received up to within the last two or three weeks. At all events the Noble Viscount had not shewn that three men would be better than one for the discharge of these duties. Let him prove that the present Postmaster-General had not discharged his duty before the charge was made. He (the Duke of Richmond) thought that his Noble Friend now at the head of the Post-office de partment had fully and ably discharged the duties of his office, and that if the present commission of inquiry was got rid of, and that a little more revenue was allowed him, the department would be perfectly satisfactory to the public. He hesitated not to affirm that the great portion of the public were now fully satisfied, though he was aware that some indivi duals existed who for the sake of acquiring notoriety were loud in their complaints—one of them in a recent letter from Liver pool, which had gone forth to the public, describing himself as a " great exposer of abuses." That individual had for some time chosen to attack the Post-office department, and especially an individual now lost to the public service—an in dividual who had raised himself to an important station, by his zeal and assiduity in this branch of the service of his country —by a private character unimpeached and unimpeachable, and with the esteem of every individual in the establishment—he meant Sir Francis Freeling—( Hear, hear)—who the subject of attack while living, was not allowed to remain unattacked in his grave, by the individual to whom he (the Duke of Rich mond) would not new in his absence further allude, than to say he had stated his opinion of him on a former occasion.— (Hear, hear.) To return, however, to the Bill, he begged to ask, was not a Postmaster-General with two secretaries as good as system as that proposed by the plan ? The Postmas ter-General had an undivided responsibility, while the altera tion suggested would give a divided responsibility among the Commissioners. He contended that the advantage of an un divided responaibity was great, and that advantage had been admitted by three of his Noble Friends now present, when he (the Duke of Richmond) was associated with them as a col league, in the instance of the measure for the regulation of the Board of Control. That Board was reduced to one Com missioner and two Secretaries, and had been found to work better than under its old constitution.—(Hear, hear.) On the whole, taking also into consideration the late perion of the session which had arrived—considering also that all the evi dence had been laid on the table, he was of opinion that fur ther time ought to be allowed to the House and the Govern ment to attend to the matter, and with that view he should conclude by moving—that this Bill be read a second time this day six months. The Marquis of WESTMEATH said, that though he dif fered on many points of detail in this Bill, he was prepared to vote for its second reading. Viscount MELBOURNE said that the Noble Duke who had opposed the second reading of this measure had adverted to many topics connected with the Bill. Of the importance of the subject there could be but one opinion, involving as it did the transmission of all communications throughout the country, and bringing into the Exchequer a very considerable portion of the public revenue. Now it was for their Lord ships every material and important consideration—not merely, as had been stated by the Noble Duke, whether any public dissatisfaction existed with respect to the present system of managing that branch of the public service, but whether, e ven improve men t might that dissatisfaction did not exist, considerable might not be made. It was very possible that upon such a subject there might be no general complaints against the pre sent system, and that yet it might be capable of very great amelioration ; and there was goad reason to suppose that such was the case, because it, was impossible for their Lordships, if they looked at the reports made by the Commissions which had sat on the subject—if they looked at the reports of all those to whom the inquiry had been submitted—it was impos sible for their Lordships to have a greater body of evidence, arising from the unanimity of the opinions expressed in favour of some such proposition as the present. There was no body of persons to whom the investigation of the subject had ever been committed who had ever approved of the present system, or had not recorded an opinion in favour of some arrangement of the nature proposed by this Bill. Recurring to the very earliest period at which the question had come under Parliamentary con sideration, their Lordships would find that such had been the case. The first commission had been appointed in 1785, to inquire into several offices connected with the Government ; and their report, delivered on the 7th of June, 1788, contained recom mendations of a character corresponding with the proposed al teration. The next was the select committee upon finances —a committee always considered as a considerable authority ; and the report with regard to the Post Office department, pre sented by Mr. Abbott, subsequently Lord Colchester, con tained a passage to the following effect :—" That it might be worthy of consideration whether the appointment of a board of commissioners to discharge the duties of the Postmaster-Ge neral would not be calculated better to secure attention to the rapidly increasing and complicated business of that depart ment." The next report, that of the commission of fees hnd gratuities in Ireland, had recommended "that the office of Postmaster-General should be vested in three commis sioners, two of wham were to constitute a board ; and the signature of two to he necessary to the validity of any ordinance; that attendance should be required every day, in order that they might be able, by at. tending the details of the business of the office, and, consequently, becoming more intimately acquainted with the subject, to act upon their own views instead of being com pelled, for want of information, to submit to the judgment and guidance of others." His Noble Friend (the Duke of Richmond) who had moved the postponement of the Bill on the present occasion, had also moved for an extract from the report of the Finance Committee, which he (the Duke of Richmond) supposed to be favourable to his view of the question. This was (the extract [which the Noble Viscount then read ; it was to the following effect :—" With regard to the office of Postmaster-General it does not appear to the committee that that department comes exactly under the par ticular description of subjects upon which they have to report, and they are not prepared at present to suggest any alteration in the system upon which it is at present conducted ; but if they are strongly of opinion that it would be inexpedient to place the management of that office under the direction of a Board, with a constitution similar to that of other Revenue Boards, on the other hand they are by no means prepared to express an opinion that in so large and complicated a concern, in which so many interests are involved, the present arrange ment could stand without disadvantage if the duties were permanently confined to one indivdual."l So that the Noble Duke would see that if the Committee were not prepared at ' once to accede to the appointment of a Board of Commis sioners, at the same time they were not wholly favourable to the maintenance of the present system. He now came to the Report of the revenue Commissioners, who had pursued the subject with the most diligent attention, and had entered into ' the most minute details. The substance of the measure which they recommended was the substitution of one general Board for the management of the Post-office Department, instead of the offices of Postmaster-General and Secretary. It was pro posed that the seat of the Board should be in London, and that there should be secretaries and subordinate officers ; that there should always be one member of the Board in Ire land, and another in Scotland ; and that at both those places there should also be an establishment of secretaries and other local officers. With respect to Ireland, he could assure the House that his Noble Friend the Lord Lieutenant held an opinion distinctly in favour of some such proposition as the present. A Commission had also been proposed by the Ad ministration of the Noble Duke; and though they knew not the opinions of all the members of that Committee, they had, at any rate, the opinion of a Noble Lord in their favour, whose great acuteness, whose application to business, whose talents for business, rendered his opinion of the greatest weight, whose authority was of the highest importance on the details of the measure—a Noble Lord, whose general principles and feelings undoubtedly were opposed to those of the present Go ' vernment, but who still always entered the high and honour able desire of correcting anything which might seem to him to require correction, and of supporting everything which was expedient and advisable for the interests of the public. They had the opinion also of the Noble Lord the Member for Cumberland. In answer to a question put to him by the Commission, Lord Lowther had said, " That lie had not been connected long enough with the department to have considered the subject—( Hear, hear, from the Duke of Richmond and other Noble Lords)—with his colleagues." Let their Lord ships mark that, " with his colleagues." There could be no doubt that he had considered the subject himself, for lie pro ceeded—" but the observations which he had made led hint to the conclusion that'the present system was not adapted to the active circumstances of the times; and he should feel inclined to propose to Parliament to re-model the Post-office Depart ment altogether. It had just remained what it was ever since the improvements in 1797 and 1798. There had scarcely been a single alteration, except those which were actually forced by the public.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He should be disposed to look at the Post Office of this country as the Post Office of the world, if facilities were offered ; and it was his opinion that it would be impossible for one man to afford the requisite attention to the matter. He thought it better that there should be a Board of Commissioners, with a head and two assistants ; and he would recommend that the patronage of the board should be left with the Chief Commis sioner; because it always operated to the prejudice of boards when the junior Commissioners had any share in the patron age." Now, he begged their Lordships to mark the follow ing observation ; it appeared to him important, pertinent, and acute :—" But he (Lord Lowther) thought that if one of the members of the Commission were in Parliament, he would perhaps hear more there than he could see if he visited the country."—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had been asked —" Do you think it advisable that one of the Comniissioners should sit in the House of Commons ?—Yes. The head Com missioner ?—Any one of them." The Noble Viscount then proceeded to read the evidence of the Noble Lord (Lowther) in which be expressed his opinion that some particular provi sion would be required for the purpose above mentioned, be cause a revenue Commissioner was not entitled to sit in Par liament. Now he (Lord Melbourne) thought that was laid down rather boldly ; for he apprehended there was nothing in the present state of the law to prevent a Commissioner of re venue or excise from being a Peer.—(Laughter.) Well, then, he did contend that there was a body of evidence which was sufficient to induce their Lordships to enter upon the consideration of the Bill. With respect to the Bill itself, and the principle of it, it was to establish a board instead of the single Postmaster-General and the two secretaries who at present presided over that department. In making a conside rable alteration in a system so long established, they were of course liable to the difficulty of seeming, by the adoption of that course, to condemn the persons who had held the offices, as well as the officers themselves, which it was proposed to abolish ; but he could assure the House, in the present instance, nothing could be further from his intention.—(Hear, hear.) Ho would, however, state what was really the fact, though he had not the slightest intention of saying anything offensive to any person who had ever occupied those offices. His Noble Friend had himself clearly shown that persons contracted, by holding office, very great attachment to that office—(Loud laughter, and " Hear, hear")—and also to the persons con nected with that office—( Hear, hear)--and he would say that becoming familiarized with the old system, such persons were led to believe that the business could be conducted in no other manner; and if his Noble Friend (the Duke of Richmond) had not been somewhat blinded by former associations and attachments of the nature to which he had alluded— (Laughter)—he did not think that he would have viewed this measure in the light he had done. As to the question be tween boards and single officers, that was not an old topic in this country. Boards were certainly rather of a democratical origin, and had been principally introduced by Oliver Crom well, who, though he wished for the name of King, either found it inconvenient or not corresponding with the character of his Government to appoint Lord Chancellors, and Lord High Admirals, and Lord High Treasurers ; and who, there fore, generally created boards for the discharge of the duties of those high offices. Subsequently those Boards had been complained of by Lord Clarendon, as of a democratical and jacobinical character. But such opinions, he believed, had been long abandoned ; for there was not now one of those high offices which was not discharged by a board, with the exception of the Lord Chancellor on the woolsack. As to the charge with respect to the Board of Control, he was not sufficiently acquainted with that office to know whether it had been any improvement or not ; but with regard to an office which exercised such general controul, which was called upon to decide upon such great measures, in which efficiency and unity of decision were so requisite, he conceived the appoint ment of a chief and two secretaries might be more convenient than of a board consisting of three commissioners, with secre taries. Not so, however, with respect to an office that, like the one in question, had to deal so much with matters of detail ; and whenever minute subjects were brought under consideration, in that case the call for attention would render the latter constitution of the Board more eligible than the former. His Noble Friend (the Duke of Richmond) had certainly been the most active Postmaster- General that they had had for many years, if not the most active they ever had ; and his exertion had at least succeeded in calling public atten tion to that office, which previously had been more one of show and authority than of any real superintendence or acquaintance with the business. Such, then, being the case, if the present system was, as had been stated by Lord Lowther, and, as he believed, truly stated, not a system suited to the increase of business in that department, he thought that it would be the best way to make at once a decided change, such as was pro posed by the present Bill. It was, then, his opinion, founded upon the authorities which he had adduced, founded upon the recommendations of every one who had considered the ques tion, and founded upon the nature of the office itself and the state of public feeling with respect to it—it was his opinion that some alteration of the nature proposed by this Bill ought to be adopted ; and for these reasons he should feel it his duty to vote for the second reading of the Bill. The Duke of WELLINGTON rose and said—My Lords, the prejudice and desire which I should have upon the subject would be to follow the course recommended by his Majesty's Government. There can be no doubt whatever that this is a most important department of the Government—a department upon which the Government itself must in a great degree rely—a department, therefore, in the good management of which the Government is most highly interested ; and, so far as this House has to deal with the subject, it should be in clined certainly to follow the advice which his Majesty's Go vernment may think proper to give. But when his Majesty's Government comes down to this House with a'measure of this kind, proposing a change of this description—in certainly one of the most important departments of public service—they ought, my Lords, to take care to bring before the House sufficient information to enable your Lordships to form a right judgment on the question.—( Hear, hear.) Now let us see how we stand with respect to this subject. The Noble Viscount has read to your Lordships a variety of extracts from the reports of commissioners, and from evidence differing from ; the Noble Duke's opinion upon this question. But the Noble 1 ,_-.-~ Duke who has made the motion for the postponement of the measure, has said that a variety of commissions had sat upon the subject, and particularly of late, from not one of whom has one single line been laid before your Lordships.—(Hear, hear, hear, and cheers.) My L or d s, t hi s Bill was b roug h t up to this House upon the Bth of August, it was ordered to be printed, and upon the 12th your Lordships arc called upon to take it into consideration on the motion for the second read ing, and to decide at once, and make yourselves a party t o the responsibility of the change in this office.—(Hear, hear.) My Lords, I know enough of this office to be quite certain that up to this period it has been administered in a way highly bene ficial to his Majesty's service. I can assert positively, ray Lords, that the Post-office has hitherto been far better admi nistered in this country than in Europe or any other part of the world—(Hear, hear)—and, before then, I consent to any change in the administration of this office I should like to see the grounds upon which this recommendation has been made. I know, my Lords, from the situation which I have had the honour to fill in his Majesty's service, that this is a most im portant office to his Majesty's Government; and before I can consent to this change—that is to say, before I can consent to lose the Postmaster-General, and the subordinate officers, and to receive in the place of those officers a board of commis sioners, each of whom shall be co-ordinate and equal with the other in his station in the office—l should like to see the grounds of which the recommendation is made, and to know in what manner the duties of the office are to be carried on so as to give to his Majesty's Govern ment all that influence and advantage which they at pre sent derive from this office.—(Cries of " Hersr, hear.") That, my Lords, is all which is material. I don't care whether the head of the Post Office is to sit in the other House of Parliament or not, but I must see the grounds upon which it is recommended to place the administration in the hands of a board. The Noble Viscount has referred to the opinion of a Noble Friend of mine in another place ; and, my Lords, I can easily understand that my Noble Friend might have seen that great improvements might be introduced in this department, notwithstanding the state in which I do as sert the Post Office of this country to be at this moment--a state very far superior to any other country in Europe. There may, perhaps, certainly b e room f or f urt h er i mprovement ; but, my Lords, I can see no reason why these improvements should be introduced in the present state of things. If there bad been more time for a due deliberation of this measure, I should probably have offered no objection to it in the present stage ; but as such is not the case, I certainly think it better that the Bill should be postponed to some future period, in order that we may have the report of the Commissioners before us, and may be able to come to a fair consideration of the question. • Lord ELLENBOROUGH could only be persuaded to consent to the second reading upon an understanding that a clause should be introduced in the Committee to provide that in all cases wherein, upon the consideration of any question, a difference of opinion might arise amongst the Commissioners, power should be given to the person first named in the Com mission to overrule the other two-_.(A laugh from the Mi nisterial side)—upon stating to them his reason for so over ruling their opinions. Lord L)UNCANNON replied. Lord COLCHESTER begged merely to remind the No ble Lord that time Committee to which he had referred (the Finance Committee) had not recommended the appointment of a Board, but only represented the matter as worthy of con sideration. He should certainly support the amendment of the Noble Duke. Their Lordships then divided-- Contents Non-contents .. Majority against the Bill CHURCH TEMPORALITIES (IRELAND) BILL. The Marquis of L ANSD 0 WNE moved that the House resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. The Duke of WELLINGTON approved of the general principle of the Bill, though he entertained objections to cer tain clauses, which before they went into committee he thought it proper shortly to enumerate. He particularly ob jected to the clause which reduced the rate of interest on mortgages effected by the purchase of perpetuities from five per cent. to three and a half per cent. It was imagined by his Majesty's Government, and by those who supported this measure in the other House, that by adopting that clause they would ensure an earlier payment of the money than by the Church Temporalities Act. In that supposition he was confi dent they were mistaken—( Hear, hear)—and he entertained no doubt that instead of producing- an earlier payment the clause would only have the effect of occasioning delay. He thought that in committee he would be able to satisfy their Lordships of the truth of that statement, and, further, that such was the opinion of the Church Commissioners in Ireland ; and if that was the opinion of the Church Commissioners in Ireland, who could have no possible interest in delay, and who were, on the contrary, interested in realising that purchase-money as soon as possible, he thought their Lordships would readily agree to expunge that clause from the Bill. There was ano ther clause to which lie objected, which directed the Church Commissioners to invest all monies arising on the Perpetuity Fund account in Exchequer bills; but by which it was enacted that the Commissioners should not proceed to the purchase or sale and disposal of these Exchequer bills, except under the direction of the Lords of the Treasury. Now, undoubtedly, when that Commission was appointed, it was intended that the Commissioners should be independent, and he was sure that such would not be the case if they were to be placed under the direction of the Lords of the Treasury._(hear, hear.) There was still another clause to which he had formed an ob jection, the object of which was to place under the manage ment of the Chu rc h C omm i ss i oners the estates belonging to certain corporations in the dioceses in Ireland. It was wel l known that the Church Commissioners had even now much more business th an th ey cou ld well manage ; and he shoul d oppose, therefore, th e a tt empt to i mpose upon them that ad ditional charge. Th ose were t h e ch i ef objections which it was his intenti on t o b r i ng b e f ore the Committee. The House th en reso l ve d i tself into a Committee. Clauses from 1 t o 12 were agreed to. Upon the 13th Cl ause b e i ng put, The Duk e o f WELL INGTON moved that it be struck out. The Marq u i s o f LANSDO WNE thought that the clause ought to be reta i ne d . The main object was to induce persons to come forward and make their purchases ; they did not choose to borrow the public money at 5 per cent., and it had, therefore, been proposed to reduce it to 3 per cent. The Marquis of WESTMEATH opposed the Clause. The Archbishop of ARMAGH said that the Commis' sioners, of which he was one, had not income enough to , defray the ex p enses t h ey were ca ll e d on to defray, and therefore they were not in a condition to build new or re pair old churches. The Earl of RIPON said, when the Ecclesiastical Com missioners felt the Clause interfered with their just privileges' he would not pursue his opposition to it further. Lord HATHERTON said a few words in support of the Clause. The Clause was eventually agreed to. Clauses 14, 15, and 16, were also agreed to. The Duke of WELLINGTON o bj ected to clausel7. ure did not hear on what groun d s h e reste d t h e o b jection, exee " t t so far as that h e th oug h t t h e acts o f t h e C ommissioners shoo be absolute, and not be controulcd by the Legislature. Lord HATHERTON thought a controul was necessary. The Archbishop of ARMAGH said he received a letter,. signifying that the Archbishop o f D u bli n and the Bishop 0' Kildare would withdraw from the Board if the clause we re rejected. He should support the clause. The Duke of WELLINGTON said, though the Comoli g i sioners might have 100,0001 . i n hand, yet unless they h a d 50,000/. a year they c ou ld not l ay out a shilling on the buildint' and repairing of churches. It was never the intention o f the Legislature to restrict them in that way. The clause w as agreed to, omitting the words " with the consent of the Commissioners of the Crown." Clauses 18 to 26 were agreed to. The Duke of WELLINGTON moved the omission of clause 27. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said he should suPP °ll the clause, though anxious for the support of cathedral serf vice, yet, if the Vicars Choral and Minor Canons had 11° duties to perform he would dispense with them. The Cool' missioners th emse l ves expressed great doubt on that po i° He should, therefore, support the clause which went to au.; , lish these si necures . H e h ad no objection to do away wit sinecures ; b u t i n d o i ng away with abuses it would be har d td punish the innocent. He did not wish to preserve abuses, 9 " would do all in his power to prevent their recurrence. to The Duke of WELLINGTO N would readily consen t the abolition o f s i necures on t h e demise of the p re sent holde r. The Earl o f RIPON suggested the postponement of the clause until the next stage of the Bill. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE would consent to Ica° the clause open to alteration at a.future stage. Clause agreed to. The other c l auses an d the preamble were then agreed ~dto, and the Bill or d ere d to b e printed with the amendments , Report to be received on Monday. REGISTRATION OF VOTERS AMENDMENTB-. 0 On the pr o p os iti on f or go i ng i nto C ommittee on this ' Clause 1 being proposed, Lord WHARNCLIFFE rose for the purpose of statig the objections he had to various parts of the Bill, and se a alterations he i n t en d e d t o pro p ose . I n t h e first place , he rent his Noble Frie n d s s t rong ly o bj ec t e d to a Bill of such goes importance, con t a i n i ng as it did not f ewer than eighty„ecllerra, materially affecting the measure o f P ar li amentary being introduced at so very late a period of the se 6 s l ; /o hle (Hear.) To the measure alluded t o h e and many other 101 , 0 Lords Ind, at the time, stated thei r respect i ve objections, of which extended to the measure altogether, while oth / c irhe n jections merely referred to the extent of its provisions• o va h a dlo ha d that Bill, however, became th e l aw of the land, he upon it as i slie settlement of a great national quest i on , and he resolved t 6 do his best to p reserve its efficacy unimpaired, the to prevent its being tampe re d with, either with the vie w ex .. curtailment of the democ ra ti c i nfluence which it broug ht intoonsa• istence, or, on the oth er h an d , with the view to the augil2froei tion of that influence. Th e obiect of the Bill now sent re- the other House b e i ng d escribed as " the more effectual „eliar gistration of persons entitled to vote," it became thc P Pee-row_ vi- duty of the H ouse to watch, and jealously to watch, its sions. It might be said that as the Bill had reference mo re tions into th e H ouse of Commons, that House was the pau allf peculiarly interested in it ; but, at the same time, it was their Lordships' duty, as a part of the Legislative Govcci;tiory of the country, to see that the best interests of the wore provided for. The Noble Viscount last nig ht _ ide o charged Noble Lords on his (Lord Wharncliffe's)g)in the House with treating the House of Coronl i l l lea ve i t "offensive and contumelious manner." He wo u , s, a nd t° to the Noble Viscount to defend his own words, an con sc say now, in his cooler moments, whether be r_fY cis t he_ (loved himself justified in using such langgege tow ar, :Al y . Lordships, and w h e th er b e was no t p r epared admit that, in using such lanauage, he had not %mu e',7 fon and guilty of something strong?) , resembling cant BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS BILL. The Order of the Day being read for the further considera tion of the Report of the Bribery at Elections Bill, Colonel SIBTHOR P rose to propose the new clause of which he had given notice. He had the strongest objection to this Bill. It went to restrain him in exercising the common duties of humanity, and kindness, and charity, of giving that which he was ever in the habit of giving, and which he would continue to give, notwithstanding the harsh and unnecessary provisions of this Bill. It should never restrain him from giving protection to the poor and needy, from feeding the hungry and clothing the naked. In this be should continue to follow the example set him by a revered parent, who would ever be present in his mind's eye. The Bill went to bind his heart in chains which were repugnant to his feelings as a man and a Christian. It would operate most partially and unfairly. He never bribed a tenant of his, either directly or indirectly. The Hon. Memder concluded by proposing a new clause, very strictly worded, for the more effectual prevention of bribery on the part of Members of the Government or their friends. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the whole object of the Hon. and Gallant Member was effectually secured by the second clause, which rendered that now prof fered quite unnecessary. Colonel SIBTHORP said the meaning of that clause dif fered from his. It was as notorious as the sun at noonday that such bribery prevailed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that members of the Government were already subject to the heaviest penalties, both by the common and statute law, if they were found to have been guilty of bribery. Colonel SIBTHORP would press the clause at a future stage—. _ _ " Let the galled jade wince, My withers are unwrung." The clause was negatived. Mr. A. TREVOR rose to propose an amendment to the fourth clause. The lame, the blind, and the halt ought at least to be excepted from the clause. It was a disfranchising clause. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw ; but Au Hon. Member moved that the House be counted, when, there being only 33 Members present, the House adjourned at Nine o'Clock. ROUSE OF LORDS, AUGUST 12. The LORD Cli kNCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at Five o'Clock. Mr. BERNAL and Others from the Commons brought up the Greek Loan Act Amendment Bill, and the Established Church Bill. Mr. LYNCH and Others from the Commons appeared at the Bar to desire a Conference with their Lordships on the Civil Bill Courts (Ireland) Bill. EDINBURGH, LEITH, AND NEWHAVEN RAILWAY. The Edinburgh, Leith, and Newhaven Railway Bill was read a third time and passed. NEWSPAPER STAMPS. Lord MELBOURNE moved that the Standing Orders be suspended as regarded the Newspaper Stamps Bill.— Agreed to. On the motion of the same Noble Lord the Bill was then read a second time, committed, reported, read a third time, and passed, without any observation. MUNICIPAL OFFICERS. The Municipal Officers Election Bill was read a first time. YORK AND ELY. The Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction York and Ely Bill was read a third time mid passed. GREEK LOAN. The Greek Loan Bill was read a first time. Lord MELBOURNE gave notice that he should move the second reading on Monday. SLAVE COMPENSATION. The Slave Compensation Bill was read a third time and passed. CIVIL BILL COURTS (IRELAND) BILL. The Usher of the Black Rod announced that the managers of th e C ommons were rea d y f or t h e con f erence , an d t h e fol lowing Peers were appointed to manage the conference on the part of the Lords, namely, the Duke of Richmond, Lord Westmeath, Lord Caledon, the Bishop of Bristol, Lord Mon-