The Sun. — London, England, 1810-05-16 00:00:00

I r HOUSE OF PEERS, TUESDAY, MAY 15. IMPERIiii, PARLIAMENT Counsel was heard in. the Irish Appeal, Kennedy , Several Bills, mostly private, were brought up from the Cod - mons and read a first time. Among them were the Scotch 'Courts Regulation gill, which, on the motion of Lord Lauderdale, was ordered to be, printed. • GAS LIGHTS. The Duke of thHOL moved the second reading' of. the Bill for embodying into a Company that de-. suription of persons who hadsubicribed to this un dertaking. Lord LAUDERDALE opposed the motion. - He had three years ago adverted to the progress which many persons were attempting to Make, to get possession of patents and exclusiVe privileges, withou; ad ducing any fair and solid ground on which to rest their claims. There was nothing besides in the evi- - ' dence in favour of the Bill to warrant the claim. It %vas moreover known, that in that particular distrid of the town where the experiment of the Gas Light had been especially made, the, thing was felt to be. an intolerable nuisance, 'and equally well_ was it known, that the perions now applying for the fa-: your of a corporate charter, had male no experi ments to improve the discovery,, but the most of them had been made by an experienced chemist, Dr. Davy, a' circumstance which would go to the dis couragement of all real and enlightened progress to wards the improvement of science. The Duke of Milo!, sun., ted the' bill. The Company engaged in it did not aitn at any monopoly. - They proposed to subscribe 200,01)01. a capital which they were not to exceed, and - that they did 'not pretend to exclude any. other exptritnent4lists from entering into competition with them. When the evidence on the Bill came before the' House, it would then be for the Noble Lord (Lauderdale) to dispute the grounds upon which the Bill was brought forward; until then he did not conceive it to be Parliamentary to oppose on tho-ie grounds the second reading of the Bill. In order fully to prove what be had to propose on the subjeai, he only wished the Bill might. be allowed to go to the Committee. --1 The question was then put on Lord Lauderdale's amendment, that ihe bill be read a second time that. day three months, when the House divided— Contents 1 2—Non -contents. 347—Majority 22. The Bill was then ordered to be committed. TRANSPORTS Lord .MELVILLE, not seeing on the table the pa pers he had moved for, found himself under the ne cessity of deferring his motion on this question, and [Tne(' in consequence that the order for Thursday next be discharged. The order was discharged accordingly.—Ad journed. ROUSE OF COMMONS, TUESDAY, MAY 15. Mr. A. COOPER brought up the Report of the Committee on the Irish Stage Coach Bill, which was agreed to, a3d the Bill was ordered to be read a .third time to-morrow. GRAND UNION CANAJ.. ---- - Mr. CARTWRIGELT moved the further considera tion of the report of the Committee on the Grand Union Canal Bill. The Hon. Mr. WARD moved as an amendment, that the report be taken into further consideration on that day six months: After . a conversation, in which Mr. H. Smith, Mr. P. Moore; Lord Brooke,•Lord Milton, Mr. Lee Xeck, and Mr. J. Stun It, ► art icipated, strangers were ordered to withdrawi,.but on our readmission into -- the Gallery we understood that the original motion had been carried without a division, that the report bad been agreed to, and that the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. - COMMISSIONERS OF MILITARY INQUIRY. Mr. CALCRAFT postponed his motion for the con sideration of the Twelfth Report of the Commission ers of Military Inquiry, which stood for Thursday, until Wednvsday next. Mr. A. COOPER brought up the Report of the Irish Malt Bill; which was agreed to, and the Bill was. ordered, to be read a third time to-morrow. IRISH STRONG BEER. - - - In a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the selling of strong beer by retail in Ireland, Mr. FOSTER moved the "following Resolution— " That it is the opinion of this Committee, ;hat every Person in Ireland lisensed to lell.spirits by re mait, who shall sell one barrel - of strong'beer, ale, or porter for every four gallons of spirits', shall receive a bounty of 3s. 4d. for every such barrel of strong beer, ale or porter." A long discussion ensued, tvhich was maintained by Messrs. Hutchinson, Parnell, Homer, Herbert, Shaw, - Boman!, and Whitbread. On a division of the Committee the numbers were declared to be— For the Restilution Against it _ 43 as Majority - 20 The House having been resumed, the report was ordered to-be received to-morrow. • WORKHOUSES. • Mr. WHITBREAD gave notice, that he would to morrow move for leave to bring in a Bill to explain the provisions of, and to r , :nder more effedual the Act for the Regulxion of Work-houses; the spirit Of which which was obvious, although .the letter might be liable to misinterpretation. AMERICA. Mr. WkIITBREAD added., that being on his legs, and seeing in - hi, place the Right Hon. Gentleman late Secretary of SiAe for Foreign Affairs;'he.would say a few word, with reaped to the papers that had been laid on, the table of the H ouse r e l at i ve t o the transaaions' between this Country and America. The Right Hon. Gentleman had charged Mr. Er skine with having acted not only not in conformity to his instruttions, but in direct contradtaion to them—he bad charged him with having de'Patted Widely, not frorn the spirit merely,.but tioni the 10er of !lose instrodioqs. The Right Hon, Gen- tieman had said, that the question 'between them was, whether he (Mr. Canning) had in the, face of all Europe told a direa falsehood ? For .his pert, he was not aware that ail) , foundation existed for assuming that to be the question.. He was not aware— „ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER spoke to order. If the Hon. Gentleman had no motion to submit to the House such observations .as `those which he was making were calculated only to pro duce an irregular discussion. Mr. WHITBREAD 'allowed, that if the- House • stood_on their preciSe forms, he would be-precluded, from making any further observations ; but he , threw himself on their indulgence, to 'which he conceived himself to be the more entitled, as his object was to shew why he Was desirous, on a con sideration of all the circumstances of the case, that no motion should be made on - the subject to which he had called their attention. He presumed that, the . House would grant to the Right Hon. Gentle e nein (Mr. -Canning) a similar liberty in reply. What he would say, if he were permitted to do so, was, that an attentively reading the papers to which he had alluded, he did 'think that Mr. Erskine had .net complied with the letter of his instruaions, and he also thought that any individual by whom those papers alorie were read would be justified in enter taining the opinion 'that Mr. Erskine.had not acted up to the rpi , it of his instruCtions. But the justi fication of Mr. Erskine on this latter part of the subject, and his complete vindication upon it, were to be found in the letter. now before the world, by which it appeared, that he had acted up to the spirit of his instructions ; which were net drawn witlea,view to the spirit existing in America, and to one of the most important laws enaaed in that country.—Had the Right 'Hen. Gentleiiian conti nued in office, and had the relative situation of this country and America remained precisely the same, he might have thought it desirable to stebmit. to the House a, motion on the subject; but as he understood that an intercourse was carrying on between the two countries, he should be ex( eed ingly sorry to make any ' motion which might be inexpedient, as interfering with that intercourse, and which, as a justification of Mr.' Erskine, was wholly unne ces s ary . Mr. CANNING appealed to the justice of the House, on the extraordinary situation in which he had been plaCed by the condua -of the Hoe. - Gen tleman. On the last day before the holidays, the Hon. Gentleman (having before in no obscure terms hinted at the same thing), declared that he (Mr. C.) had asserted that which, as not true, when, he had stated that Mr. Erskine had acted contrary td his instructions. After such A declaration he thought, he was entitled in fairness to expect either that the Hon. Gentleman should support his declaration by arguments in a manly manner, or that if convinced of its fallacy, he sheuld come forward and disa‘ow it. 'ln stating it to have been represented that his (Mr. Canning's) assertions were not true, he had !lever meant to say that that expression was ap plied to him personally or in a way that affeaed him as a gentleman, but only in his official capacity, most importantly as .affeaing the interests andeeha rafter of the cotintrye and also in another view. (which he should ,be one of the - last to disregard,) as traducing the charaaer of another individual. Thaviridividoal he had neither traduced normisre-- presented. He bad ;Armed, and with the docu ments on the table be would re-affirm, that Mr. Erskine bad ea - led in dire& contradiction to his in structions, and had deviated both from their letter and from their spirit. Mr. Erskine had not only done that which he was directed not to do, but from that which he had beenAirected to do; he bad abstaihed. This he was .ready to e.t.tblish by argu ment, whenever. Mr. E.o's friends or his own accusers would give him an opportunity of doing so. If the Hon. Gentlemen 'opposite were not more satisfied with the documents than his speech that night slim ed him to be, lie would tell hint that he would ac cept of no compromise., Labouring as h e h a d d one 'under circumsta nces of peculiar provocation, .he had carefully avoided using a single word of unkindess or dtsrespea towards the individual who was the sub let' of the present observations. His business with Mr. Erskine Was merely with a gentleman aetingub-; der him its his official capacity. So far was he from permitting any political differences to induce him to advise the .recall of Mr. Erskine, or the substitution' of another Minister in America, that he appealed to Mr. Erskine himself, whether • those who felt most warmly for his interest and honourcould have treat ed him with more kindness and indulgence ? But whether Mr.. Erskine, to whom he was a stranger, or the dearest friend that he had on earth, were .in volved in a que s ti on conne at e d w i th the public in terest, he - never could 'allow any private considera tion to interfere with his public duty. He had 'ne ver withheld his official disapprobation from those whom he most loved", if they appeared to him de servedly to incur it ; nor .had he ever.gone out Of his way to express that dis ipprobation, because the in-' dividual on whoneii fell waS•of political opinions different irons his own. He %sus confident that' on . that ground his charaCter and conduct while.in office would bear the striaese examination. When, so many months after the return of Mr. Erskine, dur-' ing the whole of which time the grossesemisrepie sentaiions had been circulated, and when the do& u; , . meats, by whiCh the whole affair was elucidated, lay on the table, was it 'jest that he (Mr, ,Canning) should be 'left without either ? On the one hand,, the discussion would enable him himself to prove the fallacy of the accusation preferred against hire ; or on the other nand, a frank 'avowal of- That fallacy by his accusers. He returned the Honourable Gen tlenian no thanks for the little mixture of candour in his. observations, The fact was, ihat the Henour able Gentleman could not, dare not, maintain his original position, He was ready tomeet hint On the subjedt whenever' he chose. That -was the sort of reception which he gave to the overture of the felote. Gentleman - to pass the matter by without debate. If the Honourable :Gentleman shoull change his mind,-he repeated than lie was ready to meet hiS guments whenever he might clause to advance them ; or the arguments of any other friend of the Hon. Gentleman in question; respeCting 'whom he trusted that no disrespectful expression had escaped him, although - he felt it his duty to advise his Majesty toucan a Minister who 'disobeyed his - instructions. 'He should have given his Majesty the same advice, had that Minister been conneEted with him by the closest ties of :,.friendship ,or consanguinity. He begged pardon of the House for having presumed so long.upon their indulgence, but trusted they woUld recollea that the charge, which had been preferred against him was of a most serious nature. He had been accused not of official miscondu& merely, but of corduEt which, if it-could be established, wOuld prove him wholly unworthy of that office, the func tions of which it would in that case appear he had grossly Misused. Whether the Honourable Gentle man brought forward the question or left it where it was, he trusted that he should stand equal ly justified in the opinion of ' the House and the country. Mr.- WHITBREAD declared that he had offered no compromise to the Right Hon. Gentleman. His thanks le did not expeet,- and he was surprised at his*allowing that he. (Mr. W.) had mixed'even a little .candour in his observations. He should not bring forward any motion on the subjeffit, because he did not think that Mr. Erskine required any more to be said in his viudication. , If the Right Ho nourable Gentleman, feeling that his own condua required *further defence, and regardless of the existing circumstances, between the two coun tries,. was disposed to . submit 'to the. House any other .proposition, he should always be ready to meet it. 1 Mr. - Moßßls:begged to say a few words, although he was aware that a regard to the forms of the House would render it impossible for him to go into the subjed as he wished. He expressed his surprise that the Right Honourable Gentleman treated the queslion as having at any time assumed the aspect of• a personal difference between that Right Ho nourable Gentleman and Mr. Erskine. He . had, never so understood. it. He Certainly . did consider, that, the Right Hon. Gentleman ought to have laid on the table all the documents upon this subje6i, or that— , • Mr. CAmSING spol:e' to order. There was 'a rtular charge .preferred against him of official nits conduct in a discussion studiouSly divested *of the • forms of debate. He had never treated the ques tion as one of .a personal nature between Mr. Er shine and himself, brit— • The SPEAK ER h ere • interposed, and prevented any further conversation. He expessed his hope that what had occurred would ind,ce the House in futbre not to entertain any discussion without a distinct question before them, and would convince them of the practical wisdom of their own rules upon-that subject. EAST INDIA COMPANY: . On the motion of Mr. COEVEY, and after a few observations from Mr. DUNOAS and Lord FOLK.. STONE, a copy was ordered to be laid before the House of the exposition of the state of the East In dia Company's finances at home and abroad, sub mitted to the Committee of the House of Commons appointed inlBoo, tOake into consideration the af- • fairs of the East India Company ; together. with all. the documents therein referred to. Also a copy of . 'the paper faid befite the same Committee during the present Session of Parliament. On the motion of Mr. ASTON, a number of pa pers relative to the Public and PI irate Trade in India, were ordered to be. laid be . fore the. House. • RETImSPECTiVE SURCHARGES, Mr. GRCNFELL stated, that he had received many complaints of the texatious mode in which the Pro perty Tax was levied, which showed that e mode and system pursued produced 1110 ft dissatislaation than the Tax itself. That he should, however, content himself, with stating to the House one case which formed the subjea of the motion he should Make. He alluded to the Gregtree case. ,Ott that occasion, when in the year 186 . 5 surcharge's .had been made, and appeals heard opon,them, and the money paid eleve n mon th s , t h e Surveyors made surchargei'again on the same assesprent ; the Com missioners rejeeted'them, but the Board of Taxes applied to the Court of Exchequer, which Court confirmed the proceedings of the Commissioners, and he did think, that that .Board should be laugh; that such. a proceeding would - produce a very bad spirit. _That the Commissioners vircre,•in,defending their suit, subjected to more than 2001. .of expence. He moved therefore, " that the Ce!respOndence between the Board of Taxes and the Commissioners of Gregtree be laid before the House." The Two Members for Herefordshire both spoke highly of the merits of the Commissioners of Greg tree, which was in their county, but thought that, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer had'stated it to be his intention to introduce a Bill . for regulat ing any thing that might be wrung, common . candour required Jhat the House should , wait to see this Bill. ' Mr. FOLEY would vote against the produElion of the Opers at present; under an idea that the griev ances complained of would be redressed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. If it should appear hereafter that those grievances werenot done -away, he would move fur a Committee to inquire into the subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that in a few, days he should bring in a Bill in which a clause would be introduced to limit the time within which surcharges should be made, and Therefore the only piactical,line complaie—l of by the Hon. Gen.; tleman (Mr. Grenfell) would be remedied. That no man was more satisfied than himself of the value and the merits of the services of those Gentlemen who • created those ads in the country. He thought the country greatly indebted to the Commissioners who carried into execution these acts in their neighbour hood. That the Couit of Exchequer could not by law give costs to the Countnisjoru in this unfor tunate suit ; but if the Gentlemen had stared to the Treasury the hard , hip of their case, he would-cer tainly have directed the reimbursement of it—and now if an application were made, he should still think it his duty to do so. But having said this, he must beg - lyave to obierve, that Much of the diffi culties in this ad had arisen from the system being new, little understood at first, and delayed in its process in the country; these would not occur again. The Board thinking in this case the law to be as they contended, could not do Otherwise than to ap peal to a Court of Law for the decision, and this was all they had done. Gentlemen knew well that those persons -who are surcharged, though rightly and under the sandion of the Commissioners them, selves, will be sore and complain; and no man can deny that some officers may in some cases do wrong ly; but he could take - upor. himself to say, that no Gentleman could be more anxious to repress every thing tilat was vexatious in their Officers than tile Board of Taxes. This he would affirm from ' knowledge of the great pains - they had taken to vent their Officers doing any, thing wrongly. 1 -' e thought even th e H on. Mover could be,satisfiecl , that there could be no good in producing the por" s -relating to this last transabion, as the geevalce sought to he remedied would be met by a Bill. Sir J. COTTER ELL was averse to a motion on tb e subjeb, till the Bill vas before the House. Mr. HURST - had long acted as a Commissioner/. and declared that h e h a d a l w a ys found the Board °!, Taxes attentive to their duty, and accommodating to the Commissioners —tha t be thought ,the Gen' tlernan at the head of that Board remarkable for lo g e knowledge of b us i ness, hi s anxiety to discharge th funetions of hi s office uprightly and we ll ; an d that no man could b e f oun d whO would execute that difficult task so well. Lord FOLKSTONE urged Mr. Grenfell to persist in his motion ; and intimated that it might be pr o* per to follow it up by a Committee, &c, Mr. SHAW LEFEYEE Opposed the motion on t li , e , ground ofMr. Perceval's ° plan—but agreed that regulation of the time of surcharging was necessarP Mr. TOMPSON said he had abed as a Comm' s ; sioner, bad found the Tax Board always dischargil l a its duty properly, and, in 'his opinion giving waY, t° Commissioners t oo soon. ' But as to the inferi° ,• i officers he had se en no instance 'olmiscondub ; he had seen a very long list of swcharges,- but ' l ' knew the persons wbo were the objets of &I ll ,' and bad he be en t h e S urveyor, he should ha% thought it his d u t y to c h arge them higher than wa s done. I Mr. BABBINGTON said, that he thought one O ld servation made by-the Hon. Mover should not past without notice. He had, ssaid that there Was 3 System of vexation awed upon through.the couutrY which would lead, the people to Complain that th eir grievance was past endurance. He would not deaf that - there might.be some ad s_of the Survey ors Whi ch ' were unjustifiable, and he believed it would be in le possible to find in any set of men peneffly proper condua—bUt that there was a system of vexation h e must disbelieve, because he had known somethlit of the execution of this , Acf, and had seen a very Aitfcrent,c on d u a on the part of the Otfic,rs• jbe Hon. Gentleman must allow him to think that no; thing could be more calculated to create a feeling cil dissatisaction in the peoplothan to 'fi n d that wiiist some were p a yi ng c h eerfully their fair portion ° f tax, others were suffered to escape. This would b e injustice, and the it Hous e s h ou l d take c a ue bow I. joined in a cry of vexation which mignt check the just and eqqal asses-ment of the taxes, and leave the hi/nester part of the comthunitv to bear not or l Y • their own fair bunbens, but those also . which 'etadtd by such :as were not so ready to pay th eir proper share. Mr. GRENFELL made a few liberal observation s in explanation, and begged leave to wi bdraw th e .. motion. The second reading of the Irish Grand. Juries' Bill was postponed till to-nritrow The f3ill. for altering the toode of pl , , s i ng t he counts of the Oser;wers of the Poor. was' read 3 second time, and ootnalitted tor to-morrow. Mr. A COOPER br , ,uglif up the Report of 0 1 Committee. of Suppl.y, the iLsGiutiOns- of tvili,c'3 wereagreed to. _ The - Coturnit ee on Flo X- seed v.';.s pstpopeCl. till to-marow. The Duke of , Brunswick's' Antiuity Bill wen t through a . Committee, the Rtport of which NV' ordered to be received to-morrow. The Report of the C;intnitteeon the Im , or ta ". lion of Sugar an d S a l t waS broil - gilt up, and the'il e- - soldtions agreed to. The 'Survey or-General's Bill,went through a COM" mittee, the Report of which was ordered to' be re" ce4ved to-morrow. • • The Committee on the Canal Robbery Bill- Wa s ,postponed till to-morrow. • M. W. POLE gave notice, that he woul,i to-m° l ' row move for leave to bring in a Bill to inc:easP ki 2 6 provision made by the Parlia,nent of Ir e land, 03 ' paving, lighling, and,otherwi?e improving Rutlam- 1 square.—Adjourned: MAILS; Doz—t Gottenburgh, z Dublin, 3 Waterford. - . PRICE OF STOCKS Tills DAY AT TWKLVE O'CLOCK. Consols - . FIE SUN. SOLIM QUIS DICERS FALSUM AUDEAT? L 0 N D 0 N, _WEDNESDAY, MAY 16, 1810. , This morning the different parties who intended to bid for the Loan, waited upon the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, at the Treasury. The amount of the Loan to be eontraaed for Wog 1 2,000,0001. viz. 8,000,0001. for England, and 4,000,0001. for Ireland. For every tool. subscribed, the Contributors are entitled to 1301. three per cent. Reduced Annuities, and tel. 7s. 6d. three per cent. Consolidated An- nuities. The Bidding was as. follows :.-- Messrs. GOLDSMID and Co. - - ,ClO 7 6 BARING and Co. _ - io 7 6 BARNES - and Co. - - 12 IS o ROBARTS and Co. - - 13 10 0 The two former having offered the same terms have-divided the Loan. Accounts have been received from Lisbon by the G:eaner, which state, that Lord WELLINGTON had made a movement in advance, with his whole army. The secrecy which always prevails with tespe& to all the intended operations of that gallant General, renders it difficult to fo.in a conjecture as to the point to which I.e will irect his march ; but it was supposed that his Lordship was wham - - ing with a view of attackin; a considerable French % 11aI k't bit" .Th e th e 114 In t( IN] I Y e , Yokl