The Sun. — London, England, 1810-03-15 00:00:00

his Hon: Friend (Mr. Cc)wper).: a One the point*. upon whicli'musi' had beeit said - by - the Fron.'`Gen tleittan on the other side was ) resrAting.,tl*:.iiiifßl Which had beenereCled at Vrilthain'Atbey: ll . 3 93;s6 l- - this part of the 'subjea 'lie begged At f ielititltf "6f' the Committee while he •shortly' was' the situation of-the country,- and What7il‘44e. } ilie' circumstances tinder which 'those- WOrits were- deter:. Mined upou. When he had 'the honour of Ring the offlceio which he had .before•alliided,.he was called upon' by hi 4 public duty CO look into the state 'the , . ordnance' stires, aid .particuttirijr into the cillantity. of gunpowder" ) . and he believed that Gen-, 'tktnen. would. feel Some;-surpriSe When he . stated t he r esu l t o f t ha n tinvestigati a. 1. , would be eces 7 11 . try to state,' for theinforination of the (A' immitt-e, thit't he general consumption- c,fpowder, in timel . of war, was-front•bo tofio;000. barrels yearly ; 'and l en be made the inquiry to which he hadjustul ed, lienfonnd that In-the -11,0 st of-a most extew. 13 ive -w.iri.the whole quantity 01-gunpoNtzder'thit'not exceed .i4iooo:baprels, But This- vas fir of this quantity a very great proportion was of .s).l4,:ft` quality that • it IVS , lwt ,, fitiiiiir the use of thdnaVt. When. this failifowas ascertained, it became - the chi'ii" of the Board.tofKirdnance to 'take: ineasures-to te move the clanger- and-to remedy- the evil. This . : dutTwas the moreitnyerious ) when:the - great quan tity of powder.usedi io ac:tien was considered. In ba.tile of t he tst ofitine;' or rather in the -battles of - ,I ay and fSr of June, 1794, there 14,trd' etpetuletrin Lierdlinwe'S fleet nut . :le,:s than 3100. 0.barrelsiot powder. felt that;it was only' necessary to make thiA statement, and then to leave thetctod sense - of' the Coinrnittee to consider what W as 4 'tie course which the Board of Oi - lnance was 'bound to. adopt Underfinch eircurns4inces. In the. fist place, theu'Board of Ordnaticecatlect upon all the - powder. mapuldeturers to de all they could to s apply th e public . : ; ante. 'The next thing to be dope 'Was to look to their own manu.aeturers, to see What th e y .could :produce. With the 'former, con ‘ltatis w.e.he entered into and Government under; - . iholt to . purchase all t.ie powder they would supply for file 'years : - Li even this was town.l to. be 'a 641fiicient. Oentlemen now found the.uselves 4 'ery, easy, sitting in that House in perfett,;se.cu lily, as they u n d ou b te dl y w e re, b ut what :woulu ! t bey say, it upon a great publi.. emergency, they Auld that a fleet or an a rt i l y was i nca p a bl e of Laing 't want of powder ? 'What would Gentlemen S 2 'y : 16 those persons who, being at the head of the Orcl fi ance Departtuent, uiider tee cifctuustances he . i.ad 4 kseribed, Ltd ri.,qued the public salety ratins than lake any responsibility-upon the.mseiveS? 18 . be stated, made these contracts with the powder i N ahuladUrers, the next thi n g .to be done was t o 'oak to the capacity of 'the king"s .powciet-work,, !Ild to itic:ease • them as ,twich as possibly. The first of ;13ctiohof Captain Mu: , caster, who, he had -very reason to . beiteve, had tahhinily (Ls charged: bis clu , y. Ent Captain Jlluncaster wss . calleeopon to hasye thest• .Wbrics completed } . these work s t o wtech they turned their at, quickly; tie. h.id no time-to lose.- ".:I . knevV7esaid t ehtion was that- at F avers h am, which. they •feend Mr. Pole, " that th e sa f ety of thee - lout - nu. requited -b,e to such a condition as eot to be capable 9fi cl i- - thattliese works shouldbu erected -with ail posSible IP r loverue..t. The next work to uhich they &retied 'dispatch, andtherefore I oultl. net autft• auy delay , 11 .qir attention was that at %Velthem Abbey.- lifey that could b e avoid e d . I was constltitly uring eat ottnd upon . examination that . the_grea t e st quan ti ty ' 'petition ; Captain' M. expected We to he upon him li.lf Powder which .it •wras. possible to produce at these every hour, acid I sumtritnes was before day-light caks was :10 or 11 ; 090 barrels. annually. It was . in the motaing, and- when he was entrusted with °und, however, that these werks, were-capable of the erection of a great pUblic work, ender such cir great improvement, at.d , they were improv e d to the eueastinces, I woulci not suffer him to tell me that uttrioste, Jar they no .v produ:e above 22,000 barrels lie could nut cloths,- or that,-• because he should he II:N.411y. This object •certainiy . could not be ac- riblig - ed to ray the men (id-. a day more to , get ,it h f)rt) Plished " .: t"ee° - - - - e - .5' .4 -' -Axnetle for their ilime. . When the melee,- .e-reese. vr. , ),.... ..t:.. - ,- - -.1.1: s. 1 1 in f a a "to double the . power; of these great satety w as at ,stakr, I would hear no excuses of that t 'orks ; but he believed that he works werejaccone; kind."- [lie7:e Sir Aim Newport laughed.] The ArNished t it as Cheap _a rite as passible. It had bee n Hon. Bakoner might laugh in perfect satety now, that the Freach'riiiidetheir - po%;ider in barns, or but he would have found it no laughing matter to 1 tidings resembling bar n s; se did we; the is to have only . 10 or It ~000 barrels •of powder in store „1., We 'Made bid' buildings of a slight textere;iii in such a war as thise He would not have , bought "der, as much as poi:ible, to diminish the dreadful ei,t alaughing matter if any of * our fleets or armies th ey eels of explosions.'_Aftitthottgketbey were sliglitelhati-,beeir disabled tram aeting for want of powder." `",ey '.ere not cheap. He would, with the pere a illy . ing - made sueleobseryetions :is the subject , re! Itllisslen of the Committee, explein the patnre.ef - 'eptred e respecting the works at Waltham Abbey, - he es 'ese buibings, being pertealy Nell acctain*l rt willi SbnUld . povv notice wt,at lead been said respettieg the ~`,errl., for -he was, in a great degree,' the father of , Works'at Wookecle He W ished the Hotiourable. .., "lese works, 'arid was :perfealy • ready to take upon :Gentlemen on the other side hid called the attention e - Mself all :the , respousibility.eliatbeloriged -to that or the Committee tc 41l the works erected, and all i h i araCter.. 'ln desc r ibin g t e eth e Cotprnitee the na- the money" expended at W oo l w i c h ; t h at would . •t re of these worts, he begged, in 'the.`arse- In, have brought the question to a point, and it was a ItTrtee;' 'io . mention !the 'corning 'Arouses. :These questien- wl!iclehp . waa most. anxious to hate fully 7Puses-werein_a-maneer -4illed with -machinery of disieeeed. Lie greater part of these ..weeks. had .:' u le nicest, and - of course ,of the most expensive been .errierencect aert .carried on during the ti me lit tire : !The . safety- of- 'the building, and "the . Ilirt'S that Lord Cl:iithm:.w.as. at the head of the Ordnance e 1 7 All the men em.pleyed in tt,.4qpe4l4eti, twon ihe In spea ieg of tat N . ble Lerd, oe must always „ l eeiy • and exceilenper of , this machinery, ,and .he call him nis .agar friend. . Whatever Gentlemen ;r e ould vunture re> ,asscrt, that if by.enetinfortunete. might se ; feapectieg that Noble Lord, he woold --itlent these. works were 1)lown up, it wail:4 cake - undertake to i 4 seetethat_the.pullicewere under the 7Yeeeesix monthchelOre.ot her t nactduery ce,nlci. fzrc,aest. obligati Ons to : hi i t i n for the manner in which ~,Placed, -so as to e n abl e thregn tOmake posrilere— s - 'le trail diset ar4 ‘ ed the doves of that 'edict . and- that & 6 . 'lie - : Hon. "Gentleman oppo s i te to lam --( Mr. - tlils:country never had a - more libeoure'!'ile or zeal- ~ threal) so-frerr ently pasei these .worts Lt - TWal‘, iousle rva nt. ' If th-• Honourable Gentleman . had di- ' an? Abbey, -he ' p:estimect lie7knew the latnre. of 'retied his atteati o h to all the . wbi %iks '..llich ila. , ) been Iv 'enre and keew- something about thestoves which erected at Woolwich, he would have tOuted that vereeformerly: esed tue - drying eowder. These : .when Lord Chatham Caine to the Ordnance, Wobi- 2 0 Yes were capable of containing 40 barrels of Istich wae in a very differeor . state 'from what it is Ke e l 0 - :13, er , which was dried upon -shelves, by Means -now e there _wed absolutely no covering for thestotes t ' a copper, 'heated by an external tire. The.,pro e which .were depesitcd lime. - Tile -state of • the r e ss'wasidangerous and trcinetuLus , beyonddtscrip r . .Wharf was -then such that, the greatest:delay tura- i i 'li • _General congreye, en Qtficer of whose te- voidably.took place in every equipnient that was car ,:.,llts it Vas impossible te.,spe.ak too hi&laly, invent- yied.ori fromthat plaee.- , These delay s were. o no a rnotle-of Arryieg ,poweer . by- mean s of . steam, .torious, that _ when any expedition was go i ng on, 1 7 ) :•which all the danger was avoided; •but in order - . and persous at the head of other departments were earry,his plan,, into, execution, vely considerable I inrgiug :those- under them to • use - 'dispatch, the , Dences.were - necessarily incurred. , It becatee ne- iFonsta,nt enaseereevas,.." do not be niieasy about ir'sarii:-.to eredtexpensive buildin gs and wo'ks; but us, -we sh a ll be iceidy before . the Ord na b ce; .„' object mai effectually' acCompli s t i ed, 'acid the I va, may. be ewe. the- Ordnanc e " will 'be hied tfits W (.6 lra s now dried with the ireee perfect safety.eeriencedehesedifficultieS•him .o3osl.7' - He bad e j %l ' . ' l othee great, source of expeoce in •11,:se, wOrks t .self soon after he cam- to the Ordnance, ; upon "re, .Ithe.bnildings which h a d : b een erecte d for re- tteingcalled upon to e e quip anxpedition. ' Th e o n l y 4b t 'itig-and meltin g th e s al t p etre. T he same most ,way . to. rerneoy this. :great inconveni ence was .to e l e Wicer to. whom he had before alluded, had_ip* . -.ereekahe Wharf; and-it was aCCoidingly undertaken ...,...Itted -a mode of melting the saltpetre after- it ivea lay Lerdrebatharp upon a great scale; and he begged 4 rneed, by Which the quality of the powder wit , eleave to add, that the. What* was- undertaken upon tecitly unpr ov ed. But when , they doubled .the a teguiarepian,. fully consjderededigested „ and sys 4)..,therpo,sers of, thes e wor k s , it.becaine.rieeessary •temati zed. That plan certa inly .waS not laid b e f ore to doubl e t he refining. and - 'melting i -houses,aedal s o • Abe 'Hoes t of 'Co mm o ns; be cause that was not 'the 1 ° enlatge the stores for saltpetre. All this cartairi- ,practicer of • Parlianie ri t. If Parliament wished to ,I 'cost. a great deal -of e-noriey. Besides, a great 'have flie-plans.er estimates of any works-of this'kind, . e e 'al. of canal work was necessary ; in short, the u n d ou t,tediy it had a right t o y e ll "for them;- but it .. 4 ` ) rkS .e re vv extended over nearly three ; times the, eertainly was hot the prirlice to lay thein 'in the 4 , I Pace.they , originally occupied. It: was also neces- first itiAancebefore Parliament. He beggl d that the ~7tir to erect mills, and. very great tlitti-Joity indeed .;Committee woulu censider th::t in the eeuipi . nent of s: found in procuring rnil)-stones. It was - not 0- 1 -an ;eepeeirioe, all the - heavy work' fed te.otr the' ' rally linown perhaps, that the billy place froM ! -Ordnaece. When the transports were ready, the ' glit ch 4 ,. .we used , to peicure mill-stones eas troth seldiene as easily . embarked ; but the embarkation co g4.l til,eis; but from the state ef,the Continkeit eve ; •,of 'heavy.caneon, ainmutti.ien, • entrem:thing • tools, e uld not obtain any there, as all commueicaieji 1 ex. was not so easily accomplished. In the late al as cut off. - The- want or -these . mill-stoties .; expeeition there , were not,. he believed, _less , miq at first produce great ditficu!ty ;. at ./ettgth; for: 1 than seventy Otthsance transports elliplOyed, frOui, ... \;‘) . . l'..h which tt tunatele thfaety_wa•sionnd in teland,ipm w th e Committee might form a ledgment we ha, heen 7 : atriply sapplit a:.He ..not now of the labour of that deptietruenee It lie were - ailkd detain the CoMmitiee by.-entering into an enumera- • uean, now that These great impreetmenteehad been tido the, adkantageee derived: fey the public twin made at •Woolxvich, to know how lung he should firese 3.vorks; but in ad4itioh to the great object o f take to equip l 5 ships, he shJuld 'say, « send - - procuring the , public a supply of this most necessary me three of them, and I ,will sutler my arm.to be article, it. was. prOcuree4t• - a Cheaper rate than it - • - cite' ott . it Ido not then]] in Three - days, and I could be purchased from the . merchants e and of a will compleat the whole ,in a, fOrtnight.'. if the hetterequalq. - Indeed it was an . advantage t o the -! seine question had b een as k e d hi m w h en the wharf keep up akind of, riValshiPbetweeir ;he was in its old state,' the anSWeer: would have beeire kings Works and the. MeVelianti, fer the eorige-, that he would4f r poesi.ble, equif) the, : eatne nnmher qUenteveas;.. that...the poWder supplied to the public of ships in six weeks. Surely this •was a roost was e better : , There, eke beki4es,„ in other places, portent obj e ct „to-the country.. The old expression; 'other winrks erected under be direslion of the Beard " Oh, th e ex p e di t i on is. waning for the ordnan ce !' Or of daarile, WhiCh hail' veil .-t c6fiitifiMily'iticreetcl • was now h ear d n o more.... He reniernbered that in the - expenditure of that department. It always ae- an e4pe.dition undertaken, some years ago, it was a peared to him a very great: atiStirdity, that with coal - Mon joke,-.4.hat Lord Melville and Mr. Pitt were suc,h fiee&s . as we i)oi-,sesAed, a snip., coming into at'Deal, wititing_for th& Ordnance. These- joke; Portsmouth - Or Plytneesth - ereeld not get h e r pow d er applied no longer; the . Ordnance was ready, now: , changed"withoui 'Benifink . lt round to quite as soon as ' any - ot h er de par t ment. The Committee must be zneetre t hat •powder, What- Lord cluthatn'came 'to the ; Ordhaeee, there were ever core was take n of it , di f nut , keep - tirell•• not- no store-houses that were eeual: to the servi& withstanding every, precaution, it would get damp. required.' There was no place at' Woolwich where : EVery Naval 'Officer Would agree With him, in the timber could be stored, and- . conseq uent ly there - was necessity, after, a -Ship h a d' been- some time et sea , no stock of fiukber, in consequence of which, the. of having his powdel changed and re-dried. The gt.th-,caFriages tot the ships' were , made:of green Begird of O r edheeee, in. order to obviate the necessity woe - id, and being painted before they were dry, they of seeding the powder round front Portsmouth and" did nut list halt - the proper time; they becaine per- Plymonth io didereet, at a d)iisiderable feelly rotten.: It was - the duty -of the Ordnance to eXpence, at Portsmouth . .end Plywouth, drying remedy this evil, and they had remedied it; There noviships had their roWder dried upOn Akete at WoolvViCh 'generally : ginicartiages for- 3a • the spat, certaiely at a eery grea expellee t saving oh ex p ee e sail of the hu e , S uppose, b y any acc i dent,. these to the public: He begged leave, before he quitted . had been . btirni before any means had been adopted . this part or the subject, to.say one word respecting for:haviog a stock of wood .laid,by to season, what the Offievi ander.whose iuspeCtion these w.eks wer e I would The country have :said to the Board of Ord condte:-.led, because the Hon. Gentleman seemed to nance if such a calamity had happened,. and tint I think that th_y had not been condueted with - eCo- i Board had no means of reeiairing,theless:? 'Would ninny. The first oijeti, in his mind,,when any they not deserve the heaviest censure—would they great public work was necessary to be accomplished; not deserve to be impraele,A Oie of his plans; and was. to have the work done, He had always ap- he was ready ,to bear all the responsibilitye.was - to thoe perseus who, freed their, talents'and 'have a itock of , timber for two years , consumption,. charaaer, were supposed to he best qualified,. and ,and that was the reason why. it became necessary. t o whether the w o r k wes . to he done by colittattiOr . have store-houses. Another objed ' to which L o rd :13)e estimate, his great orejeta was to liaise it done Chatham turned' his attention was, - to have a yard for well, and done quickly. He certainly did tot over- carriages for the field train. The Ordnance used : look economy on- these occasions, but; in his opi- formerly to •be obliged to 'apply to coatraielors-for the first great point tolook ro was to hav e th e th em , an d the: conserittenee . was, that they •:.were' work pertormee well. In all public works, it was made of very inferior materials•-e••that evil was now absolutely necessary to place a great - degree of cqu- • alsO remedied-41e did not know wherlier:any fideece in the pers o n deployed, and the only thing derma present had lately seen' these works; because', teat could be dote was to take all possible care that i if they had, lie was sure they ritust agree with him,. tee . chaeaeler arid talents -of the person so employed e that, they were not only highly lionoarable and ',lse. - - were buena-, to afford .a rational - ground to expect ful to the country, but that they were consistent that he would discharee,his - duty skilfully and faith- with true economy : They had certainly cost a large fully. The whole of these wprks ;were done under r surniof money, 'but -he was' convinced that the' the: ins tf - . - were in cad cheap to the c o u n t r y. Another ob / - Jett that engaged Lord chatham's attention was the Laboralory, w hid) viras tornaed - :when the establigh= meat w- ..as not one third so large as it is at present. It was 'equal tbThe service for which it was required formerly, but certainly it was not equal now; and therefore no objeaion, he preSumed, could be made to the.expendithre incurred under that-head. With respect to the extension of the range for the pradlice butt,. that Was al.;o a plan of hiS, and he must take •the'responsibilityof it: When LordChathatn came to the thdnance, he found above - seven thousand ship guns lying thesie; that-had not been re-proved, for it was found that, such .had been (he improve anent rriade in the gunpowder, that the old guns would not stand the shock of what wa called the •., J_ a . ULI S were givvu that no guns should be used sill they had been re-proved; and a . most fortunate thing it was that thisrorder was given, for, upon trial, it was found that one in four of these guns burst; someef thrift- were bloWn into, innia merable pieces. These guns were proved at the old proof butt, which formerly was a very proper place, but from the great iecrease of buildings, :it becafne no longer so; and upon this occasion several of the buildings Were d:Jmageo, and a large piece from one of the guns nearly fell onboard one of the hulks'. It thenbeeame necessary to takethepradiee 1)44 for the proef bott, te ‘ secure the p eo pl e emp l oye d i n t h e Warren., and of course a new pro&ice butt became necessary. Another source of great expence was, 'the building of the new Academy: A.eircinn.stance oc curiedsonte time ago,which sheaved the necessity of that treasure; meant.the contagious lever Which broke out conseqtrence of the crowded state of the cadetS: The . tneasurehad'certainly been undertak en lUrc - thit 'event happened; 'but it *afforded the strongest evidence of the necessity of adopting it. Art ether source of great expence was the. Barracks. The Barracks that were sufficient fur 5000 men would not do' for 20,600. nieh ; it was - thelefore necessary to enlarge 'theft.. 'The DriVer' etilp, which' was very small when Lord ChgthAm came into office, nOvii'ain'outited to Woo' temt 7 and frOrses: It was indispensable that 'stabling Atinld be built for them,. and as - it was also necessary that they should be taught heir business, 'riding: :too' SeS were else built. 'Andther source of great expense was the HOSpital. He would uedertake to assert; - that there:was , not a fitter hospital in Great Britain than that at Wool- Wieb . . He bttged to ask whether any Gentleman would serir;asly contend that, with an : establishment increased to such an - extent - as had: been described, it Would , have b'en proper that the hospital should remain in the same state that it was vvben the. tablishment only amounted to five thousand men. Our field traih now amounted to above Goo pieces, witiob was 'six times as' g'reat n'• 'it i . ;s fOrtuerly.— This increase of the train led to a great increase -of expence, ner.,-aose, as these carriageS could not be left exposed to ihet.Weather, it was neeeseiry to build ,store-houses for - them. 'Considerable expence bad :also beeirincurred on the Repository, which Lad been completed under the direction of General Con grete. This place.was designed generally fur the instruction of those employed 'in the Artillery. .IVlO :clefs Of celebrated fortifications were kept there,' and lectures given upen.the s6ience. He feared he w a s exh:testing tbe patience of the Committee, but he felt it necessary to state 'all these leas,' when Geniletnen co:nplained of thegrea t expence incurred atWOolsVich. The expellee cer: limy was great,but the public sere ice required that that expence should be incurred, and Lord Chatham would not have done his duty if he bad a6tetl. otherwise than-he had done: 'But he begged not- to by en'derstood as 'wishing to - avoid investigation. He - had . no 'objection to . the fullest ' in, esugatien of • every part oi , hi's public condtiC.l ; but lie .begged to etiter . his protest against a species of argument wind) lied 'been 'used, viz. ' that because there had, bzena- large expenditure, that therefore there- must have been an improvident wage of public ttioney, - Nor did '11(.1-think it! "List that A on at the . heai o f po l r ta clepartnienf ; OAR threeiiettiior te:-.t_selsi. , e pe:el.c - wi.ksehouic. - 1 bel trade, •responsib., for - every imprc;p,r aut ., tet4: mitted by thosediedet; -bier,. eeless u appeared titat lie was acqoanited with it. It in any of these - z rem ; wells, any ieleroper ~practice , leld pr , ,ail,,, let the persori‘vho tad been goili y - be pn.,i. ,e e isel bie.) 'who bad done the wrong bear the blame. Ad stow cane to the questionef the Marta() Towers;. He requested. the Committee to consider under what circuit - isle:tees:those 'rowers were ete,:ten :.- strong . appreheesions were entertained in this country ; at that time, that , the enemy.weuld atteMpt,ateinVa .sion. The subjeat was repeatedly discussed in Par-: liament, and it-naturally occupied the attention of Ministers. The .-countiy,-,was, Certainly, in a very daerent,state -at .present;, there Wild ' now no danger to' . apprehepd gr oin -invasion; fir :..stich' was the, disposition of -our naval , force,: that ,the -two could no t puttetw ships to sea, from. any porte fietri-the Meoiteranean .to the, North Cape, J?let at the time the Martelle Towers were under taken, the Case" was very different ; the country was eramorous for some measure of this kind, and Mi. , nisters were-in a mannet - forced :to uadertake them i , an order was sent to the Ordnance for the 'erettiort of these TOWnl'S,- It was sent about the latter cud, of the year, and the Ordnance were told that if they were not completed by June, they would be use less, as the enemy would certainly attempt their MA invasion by that time—there was no time to be lest:, Lord- Chatham. sent for Getural Twiss, who.Coni ' teinded on. the. Kept distriet, who gave ii as his , decided opinion, that these; works could. only. be don:: by contract. AnapPlication was. in ce .s , . quence made te Mr. Hobson (a - person hehad never seen) 'who, had-built the Lendon Docks, lb tidet take this besieess 3 , but. abler .he bad :been down to examine the coast, he. declined it, . ore ac count of the very great uncertainty .of,ilie ex- pence. An -Hon. Gentleman,.opposite to .him ' (Colonel Wardle) had last -year made a .pleasauf' tour to exemhie those Towers, aed,was-quite. - corn- , petent to / give, .lit opinion upon them. It was th en - hem(' 'necell,aly.lO "apply again: to. Mr. Hobson,"-to vticie tski this'yfehk upon a per ccniage i. but even this he .deelinelicind it, was. not until -he, (Mr. . Pole) • . appciilei, ta'"ht , rn as : an Etiglislimen e d 7an said hi t country called ',Upon him to_ exert himself, that be at lascconsentedto.uudettake the work.. , The ditii- Cuities in the • course of this undertaking were un4 commonly great, It was found absolutely. neees- . sary to brim the bricks from Lon4iin, Sic. .Tlitt expense was therefore very great; amt, he .had.n6 : reason to believe that. the expellee was;greatet than was absolutely necessary.. He had now gotte.throug It; lie belieVe.ci, all the points, which had been referred to ; he was perfectly. ready to give.any•forther in formation that Gentlemen m i g h t - require, fOrhe, was convinced that the, more these subjects Were'inve.sti gated,. and, Abe„ O itpr .they were - un d erstoo d , the moreel-49k0,,q04 ni . ..would be -found deserving of the oppioPaAion of the country. '.. ~. , .• ' . . General ti. i.E.rotsi censured . the Board' of Ord rptt for the spot th e y h a d .p i tched upon -fur 'the este , blishrnent . df a depot. if 70: vessels had been laden with Ordnance. Stores, as the Right Hon. Geellef! Mari had Suited, was diffienit to conceive how the expenses of the late Expedition could , be but 800,0001. He should have thought that branch of ,tl,i e PArt.r.rl,-liiir. :11TfArtf.. ut,A.1114 have c os t the sum. ' - tie - baliCiags raised were not worth half the sums ' exencled on them. 'Martel-to Towers were only of use where the -coast to be defended - evas not of great extent, on stnallislands,.&-x—where ships were oblig- 4 eel to pass Close. A reduction of our horse would be beneficial to the service: Raving coMpleted the sub jugation of the peninsula, there could • , be.; no doubt hut thorestiessambition of Buonaparte would cause him to turn' his eyes to England. In case of inva sion, from the contiguity of Wbolwich to the. coast, lie thought it an improper station fur tl e greatest 'arsenal itt the country. He. would have the principal depot of the country established.at , Not tingharn, or tin the river Trent, that we might he able to convey stores to it by means of our internal navigation, and thus'be prepared for the worst. Sir M. Woon defended the creation of the M.ir tello Towers, and thought it 'was the duty of Go , verninetit to prepare for the storm before it burst on their heads. . . Mr.WA ani.a observed, the Martello Towers raised \vete intended to carry two glans; but through a blunder in their erection they: could :mount but one. Near, the',l4tello Towers was an opening of tiie or six milFirituexient:•irr a partioo which would be the: most desirallle landing place: to an• invading .enetiv. Mr. W.:i''oja did not speak from his own' judg ment as to the propriety of the situation of the Mar, tell() 1. - Vwers. Twiss arid Moss' were of opiniOn the places in which they were erected .were erected were the best that could be chosen, and he would rather' 'place his engineering faith, -on the :judgment of those persons than on, that of the Hon. Gentleman opi?osite..—Originally they were intended to Mounr but one gun ; plans were submitted to the Board, pcpposing to mount two , or three. It was intended at one time to mount two, but-on forther Consideration it was thought best to mount' but one, as bad beentiriginatlyintended. ".. Mr. PARNELt,contended,..the expenditure of the conntry- was greater than its means. • He' did not approve of any thing being called for under the head of " unprovided fore" When the House w4s so thinly attended, it was not tigbt-to vote so' large a gulp as that for :which they were then called upon, he therefore thoughtthe Gentlemen opposite would nOtbbjeCtltifthe-MatiOn he 'was about to submit the Housi. .-,:Th611-len. Gentleman concluded : by 'irOving. as an: arnendMent, tl t the ItOUSC 'sliourd be resumed j: that The Chairman:should repcirt progress. • 'Mr. W. Surr.tfobserved, that though the Agents may Le liable to, be. called on .to account for deti- Ciericies, still the Head of the Department is no!' zit all. responsible fora much greater sum' he conceived that this office should not remain so - for another year. - Mr. W. POLE asked the Hon. Gentleman %vb . () spoke last, i 1 he meant that the head of the U 1(:.• Hance Department was' not responsible ? 04 being answered in the afErkn4tive, the,Honk Member pro ceeded to explain ; that his n earring extended.only to that point, which would naturally exculpatethe superior in office. trout any clttkcieney..which night arise.through the faults of his_agents,.and.which did :not come immediately under his own knowledze. i I i