The Sun. — London, England, 1810-05-18 00:00:00

LIIPERIAL PARLL4MENI HJUSE OF COMMONS. THURSDAY, MAY 17. Mr. }.3owEF DALY presented a petition from the ito oar' Catholic of County of Galway in Ire lani, c prayinc.. , for Ettaandption.—lt was ordered to lie on the table. , A new wrrt was ordered for the Borongb of . St. Germains, in the room of the Hon. Yorke, ‘I ho has accepted the office of Head 'Comn3sssioner - of the Admiralty. On . the motipn of Mr. MRLLISH, the Mile End Poor Bill, • and the Holloway Water Works were read the third time and passed. Mr. WHARTON obtained leave to bring in a Bill for extending the Superannuation of the Officers of Excise in Scotland. On his,motion, the- Hawkers' and Pedlars' Bill was read a third time and passed. fie then post poned, the third- reading - of the Sutve or General's Bill till to-morrow ; at,d brmight in the' roieign Salt B;II, and a Bill for Consolidating 11;& Cl:islet - Ili of the isle of Man, and bringing thcm under !lie regula- Pon of the Commissioners of Excise in England ; ' they wcre both read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. • Mr.' W. BOOTLE Obtained leave to hi a Bill tri . amencl so much of the Aas'ilth and gtb of Wil liam M. chap. 30. as relate to badging paupers. - On the mourn) of Mr. A; COOPiri, I Ile Iris h Stage osches Bill was read a third time and vissed. Mr. GRED,:rEL postponed the 'fur, her considera , tiou of the report of the Marine Insurance Biil to Tuesday. Mr. \V. PALE brought in a Bill for paving, light ing, and cleansing Rutland-square, in Dublin. It vas read a first time, and ordcied for a seeond teading. He obtained leave to bring in a Bill for regulating the salaries, fees, and emolu►nents of Officers in the Law Courts of Ireland.- r. a Committee of the whole House on an Expir ing Law (Flax) the followiyg Resolution was :lo o t cod to, on the motion of Mr. Rose :---" That the Bill 'elating to the MauufaElure of Flax in Ireland should be. renewed." •, Mr. W. POLE brought in the Bill for regulating the Salaries, &c. of Officers in the Law Courts of Ireland.—lt wit; read a first time, and ordered to be Lead the second time on Monday. INDIA. The letters from the Governor of Fort St. George to the Secret Committee qnlt4n Affairs were, puistrant to ord-r 4.‘n--ented._ - Mr. DuNnits Cnat as Le Hun. Gentle man was absent on_whwe pipers were produced, he merely now wove that they should lie on the table. A Messau o e frigti the Lords announced their assent to the Scotc . h Jmtges Salaries Bill, and several pri \ ate B:lis. Mr.•WHARTON presented estimates of the ex pences of the Royal Nrivy Asylum, which, were °I - derd to b printed: Mr. FoSTER brought in tie I.:•ish Warehousing and a Bill for encourating the conbumption L.l Malt Liquor in Ireland, they %vac read a first time, and ordeted to be read a secor,d.time'to-rnorrmr. The CHANCELLOR -of the EY.CHi:4I.Ik;II obtaand least to bring in a Bill ,for regujatii% The chlice of Registrar In the Adtpiralty, 011 01i00 Of the LORD ADVO C ATP: of Scot -13nd, o,e Hi . ..,.;-hland Roads and 13lidi.:es i i;i11N:vas re.td a ,ec.Ld titre, a:id referred to a ecnitnittee of the who;e flo to-nlyrrow. " - . • Th.„ Lz. po; t of the collilltiqk emn Foreign Gle'bves was brongitt up. The resolutions were agreed to, atta a Bril o;dered.• WAYS AND MEANS. !vit. LiThiI!NGTON brought up . thc Report of the Commi,tce Ways..lnd Means on yesterday,. the 1 - ,;;o:utio - os v.cre read and agreed, to; and 61' 7 del ed i liccorkA ingly.. A.,Coopeit pursuant to order, presented re ti no, Of the Expenditure of 5,4000,v00.1. voted to t1;,1-; Oiduat.es. 11UKt OF 13RUNSWICK. The CHANCELLOR bt\the Ex - cHEQUER gloved the Orde'r of the Day forthe third reazAng of the Duke \ of thunsWick's Annuity, Bill. Mr, CALcitArT budersi.ood that an Hon. Ftind rf his (Mr. Tierney), who had sioiti,A fiis inten tion 9f opptsing. the was corning clown to the llotte.• hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would .delJy for a short tnne the ptogvess of the 13id. The CIIANCk,'LLOII of the EkcHEquER acquiesced the.suLteation. _ Mr.-SxxartuAN stated tn . the House that lie Itad juscmet the Hon. Gentleman on the stairs, return ing from 1 - I.le Bullibn Committee. The Hon..Ment ber then withdrew. He shortly returned, and stated, he since learned, that the Hon. Gotnientan liad left t:ie House. Ihe CHANCk,LLOR Of the EXCHEQUER then ob ...,.tved,,tlitit z;ny motion relaave io the Droits of the .Adotiralty might be - preferred tiPr as *ell as before sic Bill. He movtd, that it should be now read a third tare.. Mr. CALCRAFT expressed his determination of op ro.3i!';g the Bill, and (Ailed for a division. Fur. the third resdirig Against it Majority - ---t9 On our rc-adtr.ission to the Gallery we fund Air. H. MARTINI speaking on the question that the same Bill should pass. ,He begged the Hotmc to recollect the situation. in which the people were : . placed ; it appeared from accounts in his posse•sion, 'that since Jan. •5, 1794, two millions capital had been added to the national debt. He Would be glad to bear a satistadory explanation, if the present me ' t 1,.; ,was pursued of providing for the House of of how it could be done without adding to this debt. The House could not be ignorant of the large sums which go into what is called his Ma jesty's Privy Purse,-to enable him to perform such ads of generosity as he should think fir. He thought t h e 1-I,,nse,should not be calk d on to load the Con-: olidated Fund, unless the other resources were ex hausted. He did not immediately apply to the Droits of the Admiralty—he rather meant the 4x per - cent. which passed into the Privy Purse. All he wished was that the House should consider the situ atinn the Crown was placed in, with respeca to -cer- tsin brenciiei of the revenue; how much accrued to eneve a.reselation to that etTea. Th&resolution, in .the Crown, and how little to the subjea. On these his opinion, was to do away that odium which the -- grounds lithopposed the Bill. . offices in question were calculated to produce. He _ The CHANCELLOR of ,the Ekentotime . stated, wished to spew to those - persons who Were cootinu that two - thirds of the Droits of Admireity were ally exclaiming against the systetn, and were 'for uniformly given to the captors; 'the. I-fon. Gentle- -carrying things to dangerous extremes, that at EOM would then find that one million and upwards least Parliament were disposed to do every thing was due to his Majesty, this sum was then to come which could ameliorate the burthens of the peo through the Registrar's hands, and on this' pie. The Hon. Gentlemen having adverted to the 1,73.5,0001. would be to be collthed. It should be - opinions of Mr. Burke on this spbject, and having recollected, that out of these Droits 400,0001. was alluded to theappointment of Mr. Yorke to a sine paid for Danish ships, so instead of five million in cure place, concluded with moving a resolution to the purses it Was reduced to 300,0001. • The Hon. the following effect :--e“ That it was expedient Gentleman said, that hissintelligence was only from after the expiration of the term by which persons the papers on the table. He likewise would take : holding sinecure offices were enabled to retain the up those papers and assert that his observations were : same to abolish them, taking care to provide effi unfounded,' a . dent means for securing to Civil Officers under ti.e Mr. Meterie, in eeplanation, said that he Government, holding .high and effective situations, meant- that five million had been paid into the Ad- , a remuneration for . abolishin g th e same , w i t h t hi s miralty: • e exception, that those persons conteitted with his Mr. CheEVEY. said, that he bed been first struck Majesty and the Royal Family should not be in by the claims evade by, Officers.-of the Crown -that eluded in the resolution." the money had not been paid, to t! e captors. i Mr. H. MARTIN was disposed to accede to the Lotd Miterces s thAt when the Cliancellor !'ploposition of the Hon. Gentleman, because he was of the "Exchequer replied in the affirmative to his convinced that the: objeet which both had in view questicee if the Droits of the Adniralty were will- I would - ,be obtained by the resolution now subs. cient for the Annuity, he ImA, on this ground, voted inked. In the vi e w w hi c h lie took of the subject , against the Bid ; it he had known that they were he Was convinced that the influence of the Crown not sufficient,lievould have voted in its favotir. wi suffireent for all the purposes of reward, and The CHANCELLOR .of the EXCHEQUER replied, that when great 'public services required the con that tie had given the Noble Lord to undetstand sideration of the Government, Parliament would he what sum would be sufficient to purchase thes An- - ready to bestow ample rewards. The iteso nu ty, but did not aliude to the Droits. ,lutions °l i the Honourable-Gentleman seemed Irani- Mr. W., SMITH conceived it to be a monstrous, ; upon the Model of those passed during the ad proposition, that so large a sum as. eight millions ministration of my Lord North, with this Aitihr ehould 'go inio the hands of the Crown to be , once, , that , the Commissioners did not • seem posed of for benevolent purposes. It arose Isom an willing to provide for the interest of the parties inattention to the VeSetit nature of thiegs in the pe;sonally concerned in the abolition, the Hon., 'country. When the King had, the whole expence Gentleman, on the contrary, thought it expedient to 0 ot.fittine out armaments then he had a right. to dis- m a k e p rov i s i on . Th e H on. G entleman then ad • pose of the Droits ; but when the country is put to vertsd to the report of the Committee on the sub so enormoes an eXpeixe in .- raising, , an army and jeer, and trusted that the House, with that report navy, and yet all the prizts to go to t h e Crown, it is before them, would be induced as a means to alle , not to be supported. He'conceived it to be an error- l'viate the burthens of the people to accede to the re mous premium for acts of injustice; he allrleele 4 solution, which pointed nut a mode of abolishing.si to the capture of four Spanish frigateh, the circutn e secure otiicos infinitely ,preterable to any other.—. stances attending which were a biut on the charac- With respeCt to rewarding persons for services by si ter of him who orslered it, and a .disgrace to the necures, tie thought -the Crown was not aware of• country. it was not right to send out men out so the . extent. of the reward in certain cases. Was hazardous and important an csiset as the capture of it intended that in one particular case (which the a g.illeon Worth perhaps 400,0001. and all to be given IHonotrable Geetleman did not name, that a re to the Crown. He !roped to see the time when 4 'ward qf nearly half a million should be given ? this would be reF.,ul -He must oppose the Bill, V as t h e C rown aware that the reward would extend unless the Anzrui-,y was taken from the Molts. lto so large an amount when it was granted ? Much Mr. LAMB hoped that.if the Bill was agreed to, _had been said, he observed, of the prosperous elate tire Reversion might likewise be received,• and lof the country, of- the imports and 'exports, but it Lent meet its fate from those he would not name. i was-the - necessary consequences of trade to create Mr.' WHITBREAD said, that as his Hohnurable great capitaliets, and to break down the middle. ranks Friend (Mr.,Tierney) lied been prevented coming in society. The Hon. Gentleman thought that per to tlah.House by hie late attendsince, on a Commit- sons of great opulence 'should not receive reMune -tee, he proposed that the debate should be adjourn- ration of this eieure—that no distinntion should be ed for a few days, particularly that the nature of the paid to the p ar ty e ntit l e d t o rece i ve i t , an d t h ere f ore 'fund in question might be learned: 'Putting the feeling snxious for the adoption of time principles, question aside to whom the DrOits beloneed, it lie shuul. support the motion of the Honourable would, be better to furnish the 70001. per Getiiienman. frOrn them; to • give this sum, -he Was sure no one . Mr. LONG, in allusion to the opinion of Mr. Burke objected. He. asked Ministers if they did not With lespeet to the abelitton el places of this descrip pt2t his Majesty in a very uucoriafet table situa- trou, ststee it was not ti,e opinion of that Gentleman Lion, by withholding from the Heuse the" ! that all binecure effices snou!d be abolished. Time ledge of this fund ; by doing'so, they pet etieTiOuse, Gentie Lieu who proposed the ameuement had in • the' odious and -painful sitmulcts of being ob- . n.. 1 sated any suoStitution for the eisees abolished, lied to Withhold the annuity. • HC. issiew that nor hp.: ii&rmet.l•the 140..5e at what time his Majesty in, his concleseending s goedimeas gave troth t ee aout s , te e was to take He had seemed to •his privy purse one•million for public tee • ices, die 'consider that its the -f the etfices there would not have acted thes•uniess he rXpittit,:ila:;lhe vis re gi eat ebuses, ane that .4 he Ct own ~ dcl inflience most:benevolent and paternal Jeelings tor in pecia:e. ' stifEietit. it ciid not . appear,t hat he had fut etsimed a In 1794 e and in Sir I-I. l'ophani; tie stehacistit argument the ahelitions, becaue, ihotigh instances of thie'henevolenae. - La e . sum be- psi-sues Joh tit have dene little service to the State, longs - lo the . Crown,- and it is 11 •:•• :s so . sill they deserved reward. He eetirely differed from I him is • l'e tsat Civil Servants should not be re tar exhausted as to be • , .antily, is it wise, providece, i c • ese the warcteu with sinceciate offices; on rli contrary, he affeaion dnis to his Atijesry • % a ..1)1Kto conceived that none but Ci v il S ervants onglit to b e Ins subjeei s tor the pat se e, t this se „ , s e eundered re,warded, in that maniac). For instanc e , wou ld i t at the idea of e xpre - snig a dOn vi s : ;; ; , t , o s-'- eecessity be-curresh to have rewarded ,such a map. as Lord of retrenchment, andlet proceeding t& ‘ake Nelson with the place of Auditor of the Exchequer. lion -from‘the consoiidatsci lid without any de- Lord &Timms supported the motion of the Hon. dared reason. If it shoidd appear that tilt Dioes Gant's:mail. The Noble-Lord thought all sinecur e were not sufficient, then let ti e s House ut Bruns- should - be, abolishe.d, • leaving this House to wick be maititained , trem the PurSpc Stock ;it they reward public services, who were always liberal. were sufficient, he was bound, itejuatice to oppose It had been objected that' the resolution would in any other mode ,of onteinitig the Annuity. He effect trench upon the privileges or the Crown, al agreed with his Hon. Friend (Mr..Lpnrib) that Mi- ready increased by the weight of taxation, but he nisters, though they etlvisad the' Crown to act thus, did - not concur in that opinion, and should therefore yet they ought to' 6dvise - fluff to agree to-Reversion vote -fertile Resolution, in case no motion for abolish- Bill. He concluded lay e movi e g,- a s-an amendment, , ing theie offices in iota was brought, forward, pre - that this Debate, - should be adjourned till this day ferring as he.did the total abolition. se-pnight. Mr. W. SMITH observed, that the question for The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, the consideration of the Committee was, whether that though the purchase was now Ali ade fro t o the Sinecure" Offices should be abolished, or whether a Consolidated Fund, the Bill might not now be re- certain nuaiher should exist ? The Hon.. Gentleman Larded, as his Majesty could : -hereafter give orders took a view of the question-in a constitutional point, to pay it to the flind trout the Droits. .and'contended, that various appointments were ir- A diviiion was called for, and there appeared— regular e particularly that of Mr. - Yorke to the Teller- For the Amendment , - - - 37 ship of the Exchequ e r, b ecause th a t Gende t nan wa s For the Bill now pssing -•- 6 i • MajJrity - - --.28 . • • immediately afterward s ma d e First Lord of th e Ad- The Bill actordingly passed. • miralfy: The Hon. Gentleman having a d verte d to the Opinion of Mr. Burke, ou this subject, conclud- Mr. WHITBREAD brought in a Bill for amending 1 est with supporting the motion Of the Honourable the condition of the Pooh . Read a first time, and Gentletnan. ordered to be read a second [lino Tuesday. Mr. BASTARD attributed,a great part o' the public . A - Committee of time whole House was appointed discontent which exis - ed on these subjects to tee tn foe to-morrow, on the motion of Mr. Foster, to cep- iattention which the House manifested to the re sider of the erecting of Light Houses on the Coast ports of Committees appo i nted by therhselves to in of Ireland. ' quire into abuses. Mr. R. WARD obtained leave to bring in a Bill Mr. WHARTos contended that so fir from the for preventing the Lapse Of. Buildings in Greenwich i influence of the Crown having increased of late, Hospital. it - had considerably decreased. -He admitted, that Mr. TIERNEY, wino just then entered the House, owing to the increase of establishrnents, the patrOn after making a few observations on his absence, iage of the Crown had been doubled since 1782 ; but gave notice, that he would, on Tuesday next, move f then the increased population and the inereased, for a General Account of the Drafts of the Adtni- wealth on •ehich th a t patr onage operate d must b e likewise gave notice, that the first Bill taken into time Account ; and it would. be foUnd that for the Interest of the Loan .he would oppose on i . the influence of that 'patronage was much less than the second reading. formerly. He grounded his calculation of the in- PUBLIC EXPENDITURF.. creased wealth of. the nation on the increased value Tire House, on the motion of Mr. MArtriN, re- of grain, which, compared with - that of 1782, was solved itself into a Committee to consider the as tlimee to one. If s in e c ure pla ces were a l together H , Report of Public Expenditure. e moved that the abolished, the power of the Crown would tie re resolution should be read. duced its a manner that would totally- destroy elle The Clerk accordingly read it : after whi c h— balance of the Constitution. Mr. BANKES rade to propose an amendment, which he hoped tic oz - rid be more agreeable to the Committee than the one formerly proposed. The obje& which he had in view was to incorporate a provision for those persons who were entitled to public regard, and who in consequence of the in tention of at - ,olishing - sinecure offices, would be tm provided for. It therefore was Ins .intention to Mr. ,WHITBREAD ridiculed the foundation of the Hon: Gentleman's argument, which'-was more ap plicable to the consideration of an assize of bread than to the question before the House. He denied that sinecures were grounded on any principle, and coweuded that they were rapidly falling into disre pute. He strongly reprobated. th 6 pmcliec of eking out the emoluments of an ellic:iont Owe by'a sine- cure, and ifistatteccl - The ca , ie nf tl.e Chit)ct-llor I,i the . Erchegtit4r who first 14)1%14)f - the l'rea,. sury, and llancellor, of the Dtichy of Lancaster, although that Right Hon. Gentleman, very much to . his credit, declined receiving a salary as Chancellor of the Exchequer, yet it'.'was improper that the Chancellorship of the Duchy - of Laucarter (which' was a sinecure) should be tacked to his efficient situation. He objeCted to the mitt propos,ition of - the Lion. Mover of the Resolution, and wktfed that , the two component parts of it had.been .ke; t tindt. He.was perfealy ready to vote for the abo. litiou of sinecures,- but he was- not so read• to vote for the adoption of that which wus erroneously called a substitute, but which in faa, Would be a, new creation. Adverting to the dein h-blow.which had that night been given to the Reversion Bill in - - .'nother place, he trusted that the Hon. Geuther►*an in whom it *had originated, would not be .discourag ed by that circumstance, but that he would steadi ly persevere, persuaded as he was that the impor. taut object which he had in view must ultimately be attained. Mr. WHARTON and Lorao explained. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that no man could be more convinced than he was that, • the interests of the Crown and of the People were identified, but he could not discover how either tile interests of the one (Sr of the other would belene fir ted by the adoption of the measure now proposed. It seemed to be admitted by the Gentlemen'on the other sidtt of the House, that there shoul4 exist the -, means of granting a liberal remuneration for long and faithful public services, and his Hon. Flieod (Mr. Bankes) thought that the power of bestowing - that remuneration should be vested in the Crown; while other Gentlemen were of opinion that that . power should be exercised by Parliament. Wait respect t to the latter, proposition, he would say a ~ word or two before he sat down. Het wisLed at present to dire his observations to what had fallen from his Hon. Friend, who had admitted that there should be - a power of remuneration, and that that pow er should be vested in the Crown, but who bad • so strenuously contended that the remuneration, in- • stead of tieing by.a sinecure office, should be by pen, - sion. He begged, in the first place, to state, that he could not conceive, if the pensions to be greeted were to be equivalent in point of value to the offices that were to be taken away, that any advantage in point Of economy could accrue to the country by the adoptionof this plan, nor, if the pensions were - to be equally at the disposal of the Crown, would u tend in any degree to diminislathe prerogative of the Crown. But it appeared that his Hon. Friend had • some particular abjection to the mode of temunerae liOn by. sinecure office ; and other Gentlemen agreed with hitn in that opinion. One of the great objec tions which had been urged was, the uncertain and fluctuating nature of the ernoluMents of sinecure offices; but this did nut appear to him to-be a •fair way of arguing _the question, because it was founded upon the circurrraance that there were certain sine cure offices of 1 irge and even immoderate. amount ; but it should be recollected that it was agreed on all hands that the value of these office, ought to be di minished on the termieation of the interests of those to whom they were flow grantee in polsession or re- version,.• This principle therefore being admitted,. that these offices Ought to be reducA, a mesa to obvi..us that the DrODUSC4 mode of remunerating by pens .n would have no adVantage over that of sl oe.- osi: .1 places, on the ground of the cancer air aria euctuating Value of the latter. 2 - .. pother ground of objection, • whi c h lead been urged by his ficiaoutable •nd against the naude of remuneration by way of sinecure offices was, that they were. trequentlY bestowed without any previous merit of service in. the person to whom they.were to be granted. ;Now' if it were necessary that any such condition, should be annexed to the grant of any remuneration, sure ly it was quite as easy for Parliament to. annex that 'condition to the grant of a sinecure office as to that •of -a pension, arid therefore in that point of via!' the proposition of his Honourable Friend' would be attended with no partiCular advantage. A, third ground, of obje&ion to the system of remuneration by sinecure offices was, to adopt an expresaio4 which hatl been used, that the coin was debased, or in other words, that there was something degrading in the acceptance of a sinecure office. The Gen" tiemen on the other side proposed to lemcate this supposed disgrace, by substituting a pension in the room of a Smecure.office, and they concluded that this imaginary degradation would be removed, and that a man having taken a pension;, might enter int° society without airy of that kind of _stigma which would attach to his .character if be accepted a sine cure-office. And this was the way in which Getr tlemen on_ the otlibr side sertoesly and gravely pr" - posed, to'gratify what they reeresented as the wishes of the people, and to allay the clamours which were said to prevail ! But did any Gentleman really sup pose that it the proposed plan were adopted, theta would be less clamour than there was • a t pee seer, from` the . description of people by whom that cla .mour - was raised ? Or did any one suppose tha t there -would not be in that Case, as there were at present, persons in that House w ho (with very good intentions, no doubt,) would gi‘e every possible de gree of encouragement to that clamour ? When the sinecure office was removed, and the pension substituted, he was convinced-that some of the very Gentlenien now opposite to hiin, : who so strenn ously urged this measure, would be quite as loud rn their objections to grant a pension, and as 'eager to attack the person upon whom it • was conferred, a s they were now in the case of a. Right Hon. Friend of his (Mr. Yorke), who had recently accepted a 3 f office lof the description alluded t o .—(A cry c` ," hear, hear," on the Opposition side (1 the Hausa)'. Gentlemen might, if they pleased, cry " hear, hear," but he was convinced the grant of 11 ' 3 office to Mr. Yorke was as easy - to be defeneei " 4 any grant that had ever been made. A man- of int)L e honourable private character, or %-% hose service? to the country while he was in office were more Iv e :, ritorious, did not exist: H e did riot k no w wba' , length of service Gentlemen requircdas a qualifica lion for a remuneration—whether three, five, ern, or twenty years; and he could not but compl ,1 1 ; that his Honourable Friend h a d not g i ven t h e , H , :ue t. any tutermation_ of his inte n ti on upon that subjee , It had "been said, that Mr. Yorke had, by hit ;lc 1,30 ceptairce of , the . office, brought offi ces of that 0. 1 seription into disgraCe. How such an assert"" could be advanced, he could not conceive. It 1; pearcd. to hint that the ugly thi ng th at Jr. Yol i,