The Sun. — London, England, 1809-02-07 00:00:00

sentatives of some of the towns in the County, it had so happened (without anywilfui or malicious mieniionyt hat by mistake i3O'Or'3o. of the most re ape:lA.)le naintn . in his list had been omitied. He Lao , ed for leave to bring in a Bill to reCtify certain nyistakes that had occ . urred in the lists of Co'rnmis sinners of, the Land:•Tak, appointed in pursuance of the Aet of list Se , o,ion, -Alter'a few ohservations.from the `!?BARER and Mr. aLI3I{ISSON, leave was granted. mikpoR.GENTER4L mmusoN. the,. SPEAKER thou addieSeed General Ferguson nearly . iii. the following words Major-General Vergeson, amidst the 'many valuable privileges en• jnyed under our tree. Constitution, it is one of the eeest gratifying, that those who have served their • country in the field, and who have nobly asserted its henber end`maintained its rights, may return to aid • with:their wisdom its Councils and its Senate. at* House beholds:with_pride and. satisfaaion those, gal Jan t Officers who belong toil accompanying the armies .of the State, and agehi relenting t.oit, with increased rfpnlatti , n and glory. Whenever our fleets and ar fin6 go forth,'we 'look with an anxious hope t:or victorious re'stilt of their exertions ; with a confident espeetatiowthat our military leaders will combine with the improvements of modern warfare, the coo .° 6ge' of ancient. This, hope-and this expectation yttu lkive completely gratified by your intrepidity :it Iloleia,` and by the, signal display of your judgment • and valoint at Vimiera. ylliese exploits have °h elloed for you the approbation -ef this House, who heve received them as a proof of the further services which the country may exped at your hands. In the name, therefore, and •by the command.of the United Parliament of Great Britain and Ireland, I „ hereby thank you for your noble gallantry and good conduit on those occasons." • General FERGUSON, in reply, expressed the strong eense•which he entertained of the distinguished ha - no& which had been conferred upon him ; having everconsidered the approbation of his country as the highest reward a soldier could receive. He was well aware, however, that , for,this honour he was in ' debted, not in own merits, but to his singular good •fortutie, in having had such excellent Officers, and such brave men under his command, and in having been himself under a General whose talents inspired every 'one near him with energy and con fidence. On thelVlotion . of Lord CASTLEREAGH, the Ad dress of the Speaker to General Ferguson, was or dered to be entered on the Joutnals. • IRELAND. • • Sir ARTHUR WELLBSLEY rose, in pursuance of the notice lie bad giveil, to Move for leave to 'bring in a Bill to permit the 'Archbishops and Bishops of Ireland to frank, and receive letters free, within Their ciwn dioceses. He said that by the A6t of . Union the Peers of that part of the United Kingdom, with the exception of those who represented the Peerage in Parliament, were deprived of the power r,t . franking. The want of this privilege had been `Mt as a considerable inconvenience by the Archbi- Ibrips and isliops, in consequence of the correspon ' deuce which they were necessarily obliged to carry lei in the dioceses: Bin some recent Ads of the •Legislatthe having passed, which necessarily tended very much to nierease that correspondence, he fait it to be his duty to propose this measore, the advantage Tio,vihitth would: nut only be felt by the by the Clergy , of Ireland. He proposed that this -privilege should not exct'ed ,that given to Members of Parliament, and that it should 'be confined to Let- •ters dated from and addressed to the See Hoese of the Bis'hop, It was his intently also to introduce ieto this 841 a clause to•permit the Secretary to The Commander of the Forces to frank _letters. He con cluled with ruovidg tor leave to bring in the Bill, ,whieh.wae granted, - and,Sir A.Weeeeseer and Mr. fosTita were ordered_ to prepare and bring it in. • TRISH ,MILITIA. Sir 'ARTHUR : 1,14 . 51. EY then rose to move for 'leave •to bring in a Hill to consi,lidate and, amend the Acts relative to- the Militia Of Ireland: The first • law respe6ting the Militia pf Ireland, passed in 1703 i 'when the M7litia was established ; since that period a number of Acts of Parliament had' passed kipon the same subject ; the consequence of which that in. many instances those who had to obey the law, and thow who had 'to carry it into execu tion, bound great difficulty in comprehending all the, vai ions regulations in these Acts. It keas therefore his intention to briog tho provisions into one Act,. so. as to mike them clebr and intelligible; and also to propose notn.e Amentitnents. He should propose o havethe liiil pt i n ted, and to let it stand over for a month, in order that the Gentlemen of 'lreland m'ght have an opportunity of considering its pro Vi -, sit ns.. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. On the . Motional Lord TEMPLE, an humble Ad; dens, was ordered to be presented ,to his Majesty; Faxing. that he AvOulii be graciously pleased to •Ciitifto 10 be laid before the' House the following Returns:— • , A return of the number of officers,' serjeants, corportils, druinnwrs, rank aridrtile of each. hat talion nd regiment thiit had been sent in 1808, trona tin Cainitry or Gity,titar; to Spain or Portugal. - A, +emu) of ,the nunihcr of orlie,Js, srfijeants, ‘e.itc. that bid tihn:idy been re-landed front !-;piiin or Portugal, not disabled for service; or - that detached on other services. Rim us of the number of cavalry. Similsr returns.ofthe artillery and waggon train. Similar returns of the whole Staff. • , • A return of the tonnage of all transpdrts, employed to the conveyance olammunition, clothing, eke. with ht. sutos expended fur freight. A l'AGitn of the.stunA ot money, of the ammuni . sent t)em this Country to Spain ;;;,,i flout the month of May t o t h e p re _ cliStingti;shing the ports from w hi c h , sent told wileilwr by ships of war or otherwise, together copier. or extracts of all letters notifying the rt c•ipt cat Ale battle. • , A rctt,ru of nil sums of money obtained in this C; tsntr y by tiegoti.iting biil of exchange for the use t the twani artb4trs. A .t.,torit of all tegipental•baggrige, public stores, tic. tl.at bad, been taken by the enemy (luring We e tat1)v.110). Mr. I 11.1.4X1RSONT observed that, notwithstanding the r,..porr,. of a different nature that had been in circula ,;(,:,, i t NNE) ,) ( I,ltun unt, en the produttton of these d u ci.menh, that the money rest did nut exceed 30 Joi,, 40,0001. , , 0n the motion of Mr. Tii.Y LOA, an bumble Ad . dregs was, ordered to be ptegented to his Majesly,- ' praying, that he would be graelnudy pleased to cause the pro[iefdffiters to; lay liefeire the Ulouqe copies 'or ext444,ls :of .ibe Instrtlctioni to the British Ccun menderS4d other Offiqrs . ,. hi Spain And Porttigal' with' the 'eornrunnicatians made to Government by those Commanders and Officers, as far as the same could be produced, without inconvenience to the public • , CHIEF SECRETARYSI-Vis FDA _s , Mr. WHITBREAD rose to make his pronrsee pro positiuli; which was of a tiailire;in his opinion, un objenionable; It was' a Singatar eirmanstanee that the thief Secretary for It eland s and the Uoder,Se, . cretary of State, for the War Department, had both been engaged in A: way highly 'creditable 'to them.; selves, and in which they had distinguished them selves in the most honourable manner, but which was certainly totally unconueded, and incompatible With the discharge of their civil fonEtiona. IJn c:oubtedly the country could not be better satisfied with any appointment than it was with the selection of those two gallant Officers for the services entrust ed to them, but it was most extraordinary that et a. time when the war department of Government must necessarily require great exertion to felfil the duties attached to it, the Under Secretary of State. for that department should he removed from his situation ; and that' the Chief Secretary for Ireland, on whom sp important a responsibility rested, should also he removed from his situation. The answer that had been' given by the Noble Lord opposite to the question which he had on a former occasion thought it his duty to put -respeding his gallant re- WAS completely satista;aery, ThAt Noble. Lord had, stated,. from the time, when the Under Secretary of State quitted the country, his emolu ments had ceased. He had therefore nothing more to say on that subjed. And here he begged leave to state, that in making his present motion,. he had not the most remote intention of attacking the gallant Baronet opposite, for whom, on the coo trary, he had the highest resped ; that that Hon. 'Baronet possessed all the, brilliant qualities which could distinguish and adorn a soldier; was the belief and the glory of every man in that HoUse and the country,; every man :also believed. that be possessed the necessary requisites fur on able .discharge Of his duty, as Chief Secretary for Ireland. For him- Self, he confesSed that he could itot help last Session admiring the assiduity witirwhich the Hon. Baronet persevered to the last in the lalfilment of his civil duties, at a-moment when his nnud must have been Very much occupied by the anticipation of that cam paign, in which he was about -to bear so distin;. guished a 'part. But it was evident, that however' qualified the Hort. Baronet mi4in be, either for his civil or for his military situation, it was impossible, When he was gloriously fighting the battles of his country in Portugal, that he :should be fulfilling the duties of his Secretaryship in Irel an d. Th e things were incompatible, and he was sure t he gallant Bart. was of too noble ei &position, and was AOO much alive to true glory to w i slat° set any improper example. die was very willing to allow, that the emoluments of the Chief Secretaryship, or indeedof any other adive situation in the Government, were not more than commensurate to the ex penees necessarily incorrect ; but h maintained, that if no duty was exercised, the POlic ought Out to be charged with any expoilee. The Hon. Bart. bad stated,•thathe had left it to his Majesty's Government, to appoint a yiceessor, if one should be thought necessary ; now, when the let tore rif rite situation was consideradjt m us t appear that it wee not only necessary but indispensable that. it should not remain unoccupied. -It, was surpris ing, that wiam the-Hon. Baronet was appointed to a foreign ,military comMand, he did not immediately resign his civil situation, and require she appoint mem of a successor. Perhaps be,did se. When he set sail, the operation of his services could not have' appeared very limited, and it was most likely, that on his return, lie expected to find another in possessinn of hi:; place. . Had this been the case, ungtwstionatily the Hon. Baronet Would not have received the emoluments accruing during his ab st-mos. Th e Hon. Baronet had stated, that the expellees of the,Secretaryship were great, and that for some time his Staff appointments, had not. been paid. • This latter circumstance was highly im proper ; they ought,,to hove heen raid : but sorely they were not Withheld on the ground of the ifon Baronet's retaining his situation as We( Secretary ? It bad been stated by the Hon. Baionet that he had not become richer by .his civtl appointment. That h e believed, Few ever did hecorne tidier in similar situations. For his, part, he thd not know, of any hut those situations were net accepted for the sake of riches, but for the gratification of honourable am bition in the laudable exercise hi' political, power. 'lie should not have troubled the Howse at 'such length, hat] he no! been so pti•onotorily slopped the 6 . 1 ;er evening when he saas to make a few .observationa en the subjekt. He cunctuded by mov ing the tellowtog lielasolutions : . ." That the Office of Chict iccretary Thr Ireland is an tr fetti v e office of the highest rtspoinubilit y, winch cannot be held by "arty peram ,a!micht trout the assn ; ahtt that the emoluments of tti r :lifter ought 1161 to be enjo}ed oy any— perAup Whuis tendered un4bic sty his situatiOnto peilotin the dude) thereof." Sir A. Wat.LEst.Y.v said, he was very sorry that, by the rules of the'House, 'the Hon. Membet,was prevented on a former evening from stating his opi nion 'to the House upon this Sutsje6i. lietnte he pro ceeded to coMment upon what had had now fallen front' the HOtt Gentleman, he begged to state, that : What be (Sir A. Wellesley) .had .said upon a for met occasion had been tuitamderstood and misrepre sented, and that misrepresentation had been argued upon. With tespea to the point in question, he begged to repeat what he.had raid when this subject was ad . - verted tobefore, that when he was appointed to,tlie office which he now had the honour to held, it was clearly understood by the Noble Duke at the liead of the Government in Ireland, awl by his Majesty's I ,,Ministeri in this Country, that _that appointment has not to preclude him from military employ ment. Under these circumstances, and under this understanding, he had gone in a military COM-. ;nand to :Zealand and to ,Portooz, and upon his return from theF;e , Expeditipns; ecting that a mites. sor had not been appinted to him in his official si minion, he had resumed the duties of his onice. But dpoti both those occasions, when he was setting our, he bad clistinCily and; expressly, relinquished all claim to Ills office, and he should niTghiitil absence, le.li tlfe . slightest ground to complain,if, i Ministers had appointed another person to succeed him. He had retained - his office in compliance with the wishes of the Noble Duke at the head . of the • GoYernment of Ireland; who lad",' fie the ke l iksi manner, expressed a desire te.avail himself of his services, and he certainly felt himself obliged to the Noble Duke for the kindness and partiality which he manifested towards . him. The motion of the Hon. Gentleman .appeared to him to go merely to the establishment of --this , abstrett-proposition, that there :should be an efficient Government in Ireland ; a proposition which no one would think of disputing, but. he .should submit to the consideration of the House, whether,' before they voted this abstraa proposition, it would not be ne eessary for the Hon. Gentleman to prove that during his absence from Ireland there ? had .not been an ef ficient Government in that Kingdom. • Upon this subject he could confidently appeal to the Gentle men of Ireland, and would ask them whether, dur ing his . absence, there had not been an efficient Go- Vernment in Ireland? - Whether there bad been even a delay of twenty-four hours in any public business ?- Te Hon. Gentleman ought to have ascertained that there had- not been an efficient Government in Ire land betbre he called upon the House to vote this abstract-proposition, which certainly implied a co sure but let the result, of this motion be what it would, such a discussion should never take place with reference to him again ; for if ever he took a command again, • he would take care to have his successor iisstnediately appointed. With respect to; what had been said respecting his salary, he begged to state to the' House, that the sae ' laryattached to the office of, Chief Secretary for Ireiand was very considerable; it was equal, •or nearly equal, to'that oldie Secretary of State. NOw as the office was certainly inferior, it appeared to .; iihn obvious that so Wee . a salary :Was given for `some reason beside the duty; it was give!) for the . purpose of enabling the person. holding the'Office to maintain a respectable situation ih that country. — When he was going to take the command in Porta "gal, the Duke of Richmond pressed him to retain his office, at the same time stating, that if ah lsence exceeded a certain period a successor would be appointed. Under this .state of uncertainty, ,there fore, he could not put deep the establishment he had formed, because he was not certain whether he should retain his office or cot. The Honourable Gentleman had said, that if .another Secretary had beech appointed he (Sir Arthur Wellesley) would have ceased to receive his salary from the date of that appointment. Undoubtedly he should ; but if a successor had been appointed; he should also have been relieved from tiie expence attached to .his office. If he bad not conceived that he had a full right to this sahity, he should certainly net have received it; but having received it, he would not return it ie order to evade the discussion of the question. In' the commencement of his Speech be had ',stated that he had been misunder stood and misrepresented ; •t he misrepresentation to which he referred was this, that he had been des .cribed as - saying, that his emoluments as a General Officer were inadequate. to the expence : he had said no such thing, nor made any reference to the ex pence of his military situation. Having Made these few observation, he should not intrude any longer upon ate indulgence of the House. sir ie. w s u es ..., ley then withdrew. , The CHANCELLOR of the ji4CH RACER confirmed' . all the stateMents of the Honoeratile Baronet with resped to the understanding which prevailed on his acceptance of a civil situation, that he should not thereby be precluded fro.'n assuming a military com mand,; and also with respect to the wish e/wressedby his Majesty's Obverument, •of consulting the ad- vantage•and interest of the cepritry, by contieeing, if possible, the ,Honourable Baronet it a situation In which he had conducted' himself with so inpch ability. Had the public service sustained arty incon venience, there Might have been something like a ground ; for the Hon. Gentleman's propsisitiou ; but as the contrary had been the case, he shouldeertain tnove the previous question. ' . /Lord H. PETTY did not think the statemi'nt either.of the Hon. Baronet or the Right Hon, ge e - . tleman gatisfattory. His, Hon, ;1' end's complaint was, that the Hon.. Baronet tying usefully dmployed in one service, no provision was made tor the fUlfil ment of another, from \Nhich he was necessarily ab sent. 'The Right Honourable Gentleman thought the. Reaelinion unnecessary, because no mischief or inconvenience had %thistly resulted from the trans aetion. .Did that deprive the Huuse of the right o f recording Its diapprubatiou of it ?, Suppose the gar rison of . Gibrsitar were withdrawn for a certain tie - tied, and during that period, that. important place , was intrusted to,the care of a company of invalids, would Parhatnent be precluded from declaring it s disapprobation of such a measure, because the ene 7 . my might out happen to avail himself of the inter val, to otonin possession of the fortress ? But the cir . ctimstance certaihly had been attended with ineed- Venience, and more ,particularly as the Under Se cretary bad unfortunately died while the Chief Se cretary. was absent. ' The .argurbents to prove that .no inconvenience had. heir sustained, would al ways' prove that clic Office,ef Chief .Secretary was an useless burden to the Country, and ought to he abolished. For his mini part, he was very wil ling tea accept the pled& which had been given by the Hoe. Bayonet, that the circumstance 'should not recur in his person. Lord CASTLEREAGH contended that the }-lon. Gentleman acid Noble Lord opposite) argued as if this was a novel case, and as if no efficient public servant, could be called on also to undertake an effi- ' 'dent service of a. nature different from that in which he was orikleally engaged, even for a limited period, the duration of which was to be determined by the public advantage. s'• The situation of the Hon. Ba ronet, And that of his Hon. relation', were totally dis tin& and dittereut. His Hon. relation had no offi- dal establishment to keep up ; he was at no ex- peoce ; the Hon. Baronet, on the contrary had a large official establishment to maintain, and was at considerable expence. With respett to the policy of retaining the Hob. Baronet, in his civil situation, hey had felt it his bounden duty strongly to urge that the Secretaryship 'Should not, be filled until his return from Portugal ; convinced as he was of, the advan tage which the Government of Ireland must expe , rience from his general ability, and partiCularly in the pre4ent state of that country, from his great military ROOM/ledge.. That a person in office should Ihr a time hold two situations was by no mean unprece of whose integrity a nd dented. Lord Cornwallis, public spirit no man could sp-alt but rewea, was Master-G.:nem) o 1 the Ordnance d , ling the % ( ;, 4 'll ov e!e rn o n f i t ri li t e it t l il l H r e ela i n ll d at . he was at the h. ad of the . prac ticeUli ought not to be pushedtco lgtest flar;iobnuall' his t b as htetiidno think this bad been done in the present hlstance,_ he should certainly support the previous questioh. Mr. WHITBREAD made a short reply. The only 'point in which he'coutd agree with the Noble Lord and the Right Hon. Gentleman ;opposite was, t' their estimate of the Honourable Baronet's ability ei ther in a civil or in a military chara&er. He com pletely differed from them in thinking the two cha ratlers compatible. That the HOriourable Baronet did not resign his civil situation when he went to Zealand was improper ;. that he did not resign it .when be went to Portugal, was worse ; for WWII he went to Zealand, it was to be expeEted that the job would be done, and the throats' cut in a short time; but when. lie went to Portugal,. a protraCted contest was necessarily to be looked for. After what had been said, it. was evident that the blame of this transaction reSted . ori his Majesty's Ministers and on the Government of Ireland. It had been declared , that had any, inconvenience resulted froM the eh sence of a - 14 Hon. Baronet,,a successor would mune dOely have been appointed. Why, when an incon venience was .sustained, that would have been la' late. Lind Cinnwallis was a highly popular charge* ter dining his . life, and his memory would ever ° held 'dear by his country; but that did not render the circumstance alluded to by the Noble Lord less i m. proper—it only spewed the evil of allowing the er ror of a great popular character to pass sub sileritio without: correction. He 'was satisfied, however , with the declaration made by the Hon. Baronet ha the subjea. All that he wanted was to prevent the present case from being established as a precedent' and, he believed that a similar transattion v,rould h°t be attempted again for some years by any Ministr) . - . The previous question MIS then put and agreed to. Lord H. PETTY Wished to ask the Noble. Lord opposite when it was probable" that the Papers re specting the Convention in Portugal would be laid on the table of the House ? Lord • CASTLEREAGH replied, that every means would be used 'to expedite their • produ&ion, sat that .he believed iu a few days they would be ready to be presented. .r 1 Lord H. PETTY; as these Papers had not yettbad° their appearance, felt himself under the necessity,tn postponing 'his Motion, notice for which stood for Friday, to Monday nest. Mr. PONSONEY, in corpequence, though with ex treme reluttance, and only at the desire of his Noble Friend, postponed his Motion relative 'to the con dud of the Campaign. in Spain, notice of which stood ter Monday, to thr.l,ll6rsday folloWing ! Mr. WiiITBRE i VD, not wishing that his Motion respecting America, notice for which stood for Fri day seitinight„„ should be discussed the. day immedi ately alter that of his Hon. Friend,: postponed it t° the Monday following. , • THE DUKE OF YORK. On the motion of Mr. WARDLE, T:Combrie, • William stoker, Esq. Mr. Pearce, and Willis( Towle?, Esq. were ordered to attend to-morro,sr the Committee of the whole House, aipointed to investigate the conduct . " - his Etoyal Highness the Duke i , t" York. • '7 • On the motion of Mt .. .lx/Jams, it was al s o or dered, .that there be laid before thenouse such Pa' per or papers as would ascertain the date and rt.)" gress of Captain French'scomrising . all OM alterations that bad taken place from the origloo ). letter 0,1 servi‘e. MR, JEFFERY. .The House having resumed the•adjourned debate on Mr-. Jetfery's eligibility, Lori Fot:}tslorsx moved, that, a. - new Writ be issued for Poole,. vacant by. the appointment at Mt-, Jetiery to be the British Consul iu Portugal. Mr. BANKS said, that as .thii Was a subjeet inti tn2tely connected with the Third Report pf the Finance Committee, of course it , had received his particular attention. There was one suggestion in that Report, which,' if attended to, would prontole economy in . 44 tespett It Was singular, whe!, the large list of 'persons who had retired frum diplornv• tie situations was considered, to observe .that the 10 five instances of appointments were appotbtmentso not from that list, Lift of persons heretofore not in a similar capacity. There - were forty or tiny roil" - ers upon that list, the expence of . whom to the coun try amounted to•the annual snm of beiween .. 6 o aa a 600001; So 'lately HS Saturday last, the contained two new appointments of the desCriptioa to which he had alluded. He was far from wo n : ing to cast any slur on the Hon. Persqos so OW': ed (Mr. Villiers and .Lord.Amk erst ) ; • b u t it sca' certainly strange, that from the list of rensia ers no person could be found equally capable of 611 ' 115 such situations with advantage to the country• Mr. CANNING co mmente d on the Right 1- 11; 1 ,.. 1. Gentleman's introduction of . ..subjects into tllty cussion not at all connected with it.. On 10 ' )I C"* into the matter, h e was ' conv i nce d t h at M r . Jeu'cr;i by the acceptance of this appointment', had i 4iL l bo i l ,,,i e his seat so completely, .th a t• he was not even' eligs t , to, become a candid ate f or re - e l ect i on . 13 1 Right 'Honourable Gentleman was wrung In 64 4 . posing that it gave him any claim on retirement' P I must have utterly mi s u n d ers t oo d M r. B ut k e ' s AOrA he considered it in this viewr This' Consulsbill 1 , e ; ver cost the public one farthing; the -income atto li b solely from the tees. He had laid' the' letter ex' plaining the reason of.allowiog Mr. Jetfery a •81 ' 13I l i of t6OOl. i ns t ea d o f t h ose f ees b e f ore t h e House, ,„r r it the purpose of shewin g th e p r i nc ipl e opon-win 43l , was his wish to a tt, not on l y in this, but eve ry other,Consulship. H e w i s h e d t h e s y ste m to-be }t • traduced of giving a sa l ar y adequate to the otn c " r, '. instead of allowing the Consuls the Jibertyof trading, and receiving fees to a very. greet amount. Than in the present i nstance , t h e surp l us o f tees win c %Vapid in all likelihood be paid over by Mr. Jere"; • would be sufficient to provide for thesalaries " l a Consols at Oport o an d St. Utvs. This mode been adopted with very ,beneticial,effect in America, and he wished it to be extended to every oilier stloar:, ter. With respect to the lour new appointmer. mentioned by the Right Honourable Gentleman , had mistaken them altogether. Mr. Mellish hau not been appointed Consul, .but Secretary of 14 11 ; lion to the Court of Sicily; : in. which situation , pre was now succeeded by Mr. Douglas, on . his b made Consul in Louisiana. No person -was eve r pensioned as Secretary of Legation, and thoieforu 1 i