The Sun. — London, England, 1836-02-06 00:00:00

IMP ER 'AL PARLIAMENT. US.i _ , Ho use met .; OF LORDS, FEBIW ART 5. The met 1 y o-da at half-twelve past o'clock. Aft er p r ayers had b een r, ad by the Bishop of Bristol, the Duke of Argyll, as Lord Steward of the Household, informed their dress Lordships lf-p asthat hiF j Maj es ty would receive their Lo r d s hi ps ' ad at ha :two o'ock. .. The E ar l of .1 i'ortiowr cl took the oaths and his seat as Baron Lovel and Holt and. ( JAPITAL PUNISHMENTS. Chief The E ar l of . SHAFTESBURY, i n t h e a b sence of the Lord Justice , o f t h e Ki ng ' s Bench, said that be had to intro duceuc to their Lordships a. Bill for the abOliti on ;of 'capital shmeni s iR certain casr.!. The Bill rdered was afterward s s brought up, r e a d a fi rst t i me,. a n d O to be read a second time on Monday . : ' ,On the, motion o f th e E ar l of SHAFTESBURY the Appeal torntnit'wce was appointed for the Session. dAt two o'clock theirLordshipsp rocee d e d i n state to present a add ress to his M a j esty, and the House adjourned till:Mo . n HOF COMMONS, FEBRUARY 5. _r:lThe SPEAKER took the chai r at five minutes to four o'clock. 4r.Divett, Sir: Andrew A gnew, and Mr. Sergeant Talfourd, 4ettr, o hire some p,etitions, 'the purp or t o f w hi c h we cou ld not win g to *le noise in the body of the House. Mr. AND TENANT—(IRELAND . ) r ' SHA.RMAN CRAWFORD gave notice, that on ersday, the 10th of March, he should' mo ve f or l eave to bring in a - Bill to amend th e l aw re l at i ng to landlord and t enant in Ireland. „ IN TIMIDATION AT ELECTIONS. akftr• POULTER gave notice that on tile 17th inst., he k u t .kl.d move for leave to bring a Bill to prev en t th rea t s an d 'lntiatio n at the election of Members', to serve in Parliament. SPIRIT DUTIES. • bIVETT gave niaice, tha:c on the 3d of March, he ove for a comr v fttee of the whole H ouse , t o cons id er wkilm? . priety of repePaing so much o f th e A c t, 4th an d s t h, I v., as impose ; an additional duty upon spirit licences. The Ho B_ORQUGH OF STAFFORD. th e 9 , 4. 7 1 . niewaeit then gave notice that on Tuesday next, di s t . "'lnst., he should move for leave to bring in a Bill to easiranchise the.. borough or: Stafford ; and that on the same oc osl he shrAild move the suspension of the Stafford Writ. t'll ould move f a rturn of the number of spirit dis- anti,retailers who or e had obtained relief b y the 3d and 4th ~illiatn IV., chap. 71.), with the amount of relief so.obtained. Ca SPIRIT LICENCES. a ri d a rnin - PE Clll. - ' , ,LL presented petitions f r om Clapham, la w ' °l : 3 other plp,Ces in Sussex, praying for a repeal of the s Airit "uneh impos.ed an additional duty of 50 per cent upon ,2 li cences ; .-tir that the House would be , pleased to grant a 7 11 ittee t o e nqu i re i nto the present state of the spirit trade. ia l '" e ar.) Great disatisfaction had arisen from the. ih n P°s „..it L icn of these. duties; .and-he was glad. to find that .Member for Exeter I;ad given notice of a • 11 2 . titi en upon the subject. He trusted that the proprietors '4 propritAresses (for the fair. sex' were entitled to proper ideration)—( A laugh).L-would obtain that attention to their Atillable demands w hi c h t h ey were led to expect from the Aell b of dg th e e Right MM. the Ci l i nce ll or o f t h e E xc h e q uer v-aniri. HAND-LOOM, WEAVERS. th.kr. MAXWELL gave intice, that on the 3d March, he ' 41 t1 th e the attention/44 the House to the present state of.. iaid-loom weavers,' • HAWE morcd for certain returns, the purport of "leh we did' not 1 17 ,.. ill friRANGE LODGES. vir . FINN.. gave notice that on Tuesday next he should a_lnit to the Viouse .a motion, in consequence of the Grand iarjge Lodg,e of Irelend having impeached the , conduct lio tne 'witn;.;ises examined before the ' Committee - of that . ane. also for having impeaChed the Report - of that Ev ranlit tet, in a document which appeared in the Dublin to ln9 dad and the - Dublin Warder. And he would beg wh e - f i,"' l tlie Hon. Member for Cavan (Mr. 11. Maxwell), it self -1 n his signature to that document, and the• document k published.iii these p a p ers , were au th ent i c ? ask e d MAXWELL looked upon the question as one ohj ee , °Y one. p r i va t e gent l eman o f anot h er, an d h e h a d no eou t i . '"° ll to answer it as such, but entirely from motives of tlies,„ °B /..---(llear, hear.) The docunient, as published in he . ',l) l Pers, and bearing his (Mr. Maxwell' s ) s i gna t ure , was , Ziiered, genuine. lir- F INN then gave notice, th a t i n ca lli ng th e a tt en ti on of 11)+36 ' 4 , "se to the ev id ence t a k en b e f or e t h e C omm i tt e e ap !lb ° ',,`,e,,t l to inquire i n t o O range L o d ge S oc i et i es i n I re l an d , h e lli e 1"' Move that Orangeism in Ireland has been productive of th,t".'nst baneful eff ec t s on th e a d m i n i strat i on o f pu bli c justiee— toreits Prevalence in the cons t a b u l ary an d ' peace preservat i on And - ,: ; 4 , 0 (1 . generally in Ireland, has l e d t o th e gross neglect lalb"°l,Tion of public duty, and to the open and lawless res . 's . - q t : - Q to the authority of magistracy and of the Executtse l'4 lll .lile - nt of Ireland, the b'y individual members and land, l arge gad sg o f the above-description of force—that the systematic of tißrreptitiolli introduction of Orangeisminteevery b ranch 1 .4 1 r nilitari service, in almost every part' of the empire, in i n of orders issued in 1822 and 182 R by the Commander ''Perl ll ll, - 1 '• of his Majesty's Forces, mist the absolute and me power vested by its governing •bodies—the Gr an d - t 'r 1 1 7, es i ° rll England and Ireland—in its Grand Imperial Mas bea R o yal Highness Ernest' Duke of Cutriberland—( Hear, - hie, t '-as well as the num be r , th e ran k, an d t h e stat i on and et lee of the different' mctiN'hers of that' bo4 throughotif ,i, e rY part of the British dominions, arc well calculated to ex thte serious apprehens'ions in the minds of the loyal subjects of ce empire, and to call imperatively upon the Representa tives . °' the people for the, most energetic expression of its opinion t 0 secure the safe, the peaceable, the legal, and rightful suc cession to the Throne of these realms.--( Hear, hear.) . BRIBERY LAWS. Mr. HAR T Y gave notice that he would ask leave at an early period of the Session to introduce a bill for the purpose of consolidr h ti ng an d amending the laws relating to bribery at the election of Members to serve in Parliament. TI7.'HE PROSECUTIONS IN IRELAND. Mr. S'dEIL gave notice that in February (we did not catch the day) h e wou ld move for a return of all processes h lei lhadbeen is sue d un d er the warrant of the Court of Ex 4,_equer in Ir e l an d, i n the cause of " Knox v. Cavan, " and all' o `n r') e ord ers made thereon, and also for a ret urn o f a ll t h e ordersl B e Government i ssue d during the years 1833; 1834, an d respecting the collecting of Tithes. NEW WRITS. I ) , M r. E. J. STANLEY moved for a new writ for the 1 1 1;0 1 0 of Stoke-upon-Trent, in the room of Mr. Heathcote, 1 11 .;„ find accept e d th e Chil tern H un d re d s . Al so f or a new I) for the b oroug h o f C oc k ermout h, i n t h e room o f M r . chlltern '!'e, , who un had red s. o accepted the office of Steward of the Hd als Air PRINTING _OF BILLS. 4 ol .; ' HUME gave notice that, on Wednesday next, he -`" submit to the House the propriety of having all Bills Illi c i t " ill plain round hand, instead of being engrossed in l etter.—( A laugh.) Th STANDING ORDERS. 11% e SPEAKER then proceeded to read the Standing Orders. th Q e t ,,t l he came to those relating to the printing the papers of 1 111 : 4 r * HUME rose to call the attention of the House to the Q o " Qc t• In August last, in consequence of the report of a 411(aittee, the House had agreed that the votes should be of j et ' in a condensed and close form, by which one half Pfte in would be saved. He wishedto know whether shraPations had been made to have the votes pi inted agree , th e 3r to the f orm annexe d to t h e report w hi c h h a d b een l a id on I%,able, and which had r ece i ve d th e a pp ro b a ti on o f th e H ouse ? tes t " SPEAKER was aware that at the close of last S e ssio n , Ho n, ain r esfAutions had been adopted to the effect stated by the Merftb er ; b ut h e expecte d t h at t h e H ouse wou ld appo i nt So e l il miltee this Session to carry these resolutions into effect. in _PPirtions of those resolutions as seemed to him to r e quir e di rect gate directions, he h a d g i ven w ith res p ec t t o th em suc h itAtlions as in his discretion were c al cu l a t e d t o carr y th em th e effect. With respect to the parties employed in printing It o v :ltes (so we understood), he could stat e th a t th ere was 1,1 0 ° ejection on their parts to carry the resolutions of the 4 l ae int o e ff ec t. %%!,• HUME understood, from what bad fallen from the der, that the resolutions of the 13th of August would Th e i nto effect.--( Hear, hear.) `e SPEAKER then proceeded in the further reading of the erodingll Orders, and the last day for receiving the Report on l'a_te Bills wa s fixed for Monday th e 6th of J une . Itio v • E WART thought the present the prop e r time for th ai l eg the resolution of which he had given notice last Session, t ft : elect C omm itt ees in future should consist of eleven mem laFh, The Hon. Member thought the adoption of the reso 7 tiuoet : 11 highly important, and he trusted, therefore, it would not With any oppposition. tsi iii a rd JOHN RUSSELL said that the subject was one cer hp Y very well worthy the consideration of the House. He was ti e Y glad th a t t h e H on . M em b er h a d g i ven no ti ce o f hi s inten -4 t o • Very • b ring the subject forward ; but he thought it would be prose In convenient if they proceeded with ,such a House as the th o discuss the subject of altering the mode of conducting i t e Setect Committees. He should therefore suggest, whether c o nuld not be better to appoint a small Select Committee, ' s ' s tieg of not more than'mne Members to take the subject of thereso lution into consideration. He hoped the Hon. Member tioould not o bj ect to h i s mov i ng, as an amen d ment to hi s resolu 'Prtile' til e appointm en t o f a Committee to consider of the pro- A pr of carryin g it i n t o e ff ec t. pos e r r O'BRIEN thought the Committee should have the to of consid er i ng t h e mo d e i n w hi c h Bill s were p res ented of `.. 11 ,e House. H e thou.-lit that department of the business fa nner, Hou se was conducted in any thing but a creditable fa nner o Mr. E WART would off er no o pp os iti o n to the amendment f IL a b o ite Noble Lord; but he thought it most desirable that it Th e be carr i e d i nto e ff ect as soon as possible. !'e Committee was the n a p po i nte d . , Mr. HUME trusted that the Gentlemen named would re- Wady attend the Committee. tai rd J. RUSSELL said that he would .take pains to ascer whether the Gentlemen he had named would attend, and it, t he place o f any t h a t cou ld n o t, h e would name other Hon. -4 V)ers. a HUME begged to call the attention o f t h e H ouse to series o f resolutions which ha d b een passed by a Committee appointed last Session to enquire into certain matters con nected with th e pr i nt i ng o f A cts o f P ar li ament . B y an order 7th of May, a resolution directing 5,000 Acts of Parlia nent to' b e c i rculated in certain boroughs and counties had b een rescinded ; another resolution had been agreed to by the aatne Committee, recommendin that the Statutes should Le prf both inted in royal -octavo, and circulated amongst the Members 1 Houses. Hi s Object now was to move that these reso iktions should be submitted to the Lords, and their concurrence requested thereto. Mr. F. BARING suggested that a copy of the Report re- ferred to by the Hon. Member should be sent to their Lord ships. Mr. HUME said, the next resolution recommended that a certain number of the Statutes should be stamped, and sent to certain publi c o ffi ces ; b u t th er e were wo r ds in the resolu tion Well, if adopted, would give a monopoly to the King's printer ; he would, therefore, move that these words be left out. Mr. F. BARING said that the words would certainly create a monopoly which the Committee never intended. It was clear there must be some amendment to the resolution of last Session. Mr. • HUME said that at present 300 copies of any private Act were printed at the public expense, although not 50 of them were used. The parties requiring 'private Bills were required to furnish one correct copy ; but he put it to the House whether 300 copies should be printed or • not ? The party was at present entitled to employ whom he pleased, provided he furnished a correct copy; but by the wording of this resolution he would be precluded from doing • so, and a complete monopoly would be given to the King's printer. After some further conversation, the resolu tion was rescinded. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. Mr. E WART moved that no business except of a formal nature should be entered upon after the hour of half-past eleven at night. He had made a similar motion during the last Session, which, though not carried formally, was virtually, so by the persevering conduct of his Hon. Friend the Member for Salford, and he only now wished to establish by a resolution of that House, what had been the practice for some time past. There was now a great deal of time wasted in debating the solemn and important question whether they should adjourn or not, and by ,acceding to his proposition they would be enabled to devote it to public business.—( Hear, hear.) The country was adverse to the system of nocturnal legislation, and the interests of the community could, he thought, be much better attended to by day than by night. Be hoped they would agree to that first step in the return to seasonable hours, and by an early adjournment at night they would be better enabled to attend in the morning. The Honourible Gentle man concluded by submitting his proposition. • Mr. WALLACE seconded the motion. Lord JOHN RUSSELL made some observations, but in so low a tone; that he was quite inaudible in the gallery. Mr. O'CONNEL L said there was an objection to the mo tion because it excepted business of a formal nature. There was another, that it proposed that the House should sit till half past eleven, one half hour too late. No business should be entered upon after eleven o'clock. The only assembly in the world—that is, the on!ilegat assembly who: transacted busi ness at night, was the British House of Commons. They should begin to do business at business hours. Much had been said of the wisdom of their ancestors, and they commenced so early as eight o'clock in the morning. —( Hear.) At so late a period as 1792 the resolution of that House was'that the Order of the Day should be read at one o'clock in , the afternoon, and not later. He submitted that they should come back to business hours, and he thought if they devoted -at the commencement of the Session, three days in the week beginning at ten in the forenoon, and ending at eight in the afternoon, there would be three times the quantity of business gone through that there is at present. There was much lost by night sittings, and from half-past six to nine o'clock was generally employed in listening to those who at any other time would not, or ought not, to be heard. He knew two gentlemen, who, in his opinion, had lost their lives by the• Present system, and whose names he would mention, were it not indelicate to do so. One of them was 58 years of age, and their families attributed their deaths to the, great change in their habits, and to, the very late hours which they kept in attending to the business of the country. The Committees could sit for the other four days in the week, until, the business had so far advanced, that the bills had obtained their second readings. He should, if a division was pressed for, move the omission of the word " half" after " eleven o'clock," and also the omission of the words " except formal business." Mr. BRO THE RTON begged to express his concurrence in the motion that had been made. If the resolution was not adopted, he should pursue his old course of moving the ad journment at twelve o'clock. Mr. ROBINSON opposed the motion. A great portion of the Members of the House would necessarily have to ab sent themselves from the House during the day upon Com mittees. Again, there were a great many professional men, Members of that House, who would not be able to attend in the day, their service being required elsewhere ; and another consi deration was, the presence of his Majesty's Ministers, who it was well known had to attend Cabinet Councils in the day. He thought, therefore, that if this motion was adopted, the House would rather increase than lessen the difficulty com plained of. Mr. HUM E said the Honourable Member for Wor cester had assigned a very good reason why certain persons who could not attend during the day should not be members, but to state that as a reason why the House should not proceed with public business during the day was the most extraordinary thing he ever heard.—( Hear, hear.) If there were Gentlemen, members of the House, whose professional or other employments prevented their at tendance in the day, he thought they had better devote all their attention to their business than attending the House. With regard to his Majesty's Ministers, he was not inclined 'to think the presence of his Majesty's Ministers so essential. —(Laughter, and hear, hear.) But they had shut their eyes to the real cause of the difficulty they complained of. The House was overcharged with business. All private business ought to be reisiiiverl. from the --House. What' 'did it signify when there was to be a certain road in Devonshire, or a certain road in Yorkshire, when some of the most im portant Members might be taken away upon a Committee of that kind the whole of the day, and afterwards come to the House fatigued and unable to take a part in the dis cussions ? The House of Commons was the only assembly in the world that took charge of all private and public business. At the close of the Session there were generally 50 or 60 notices on the book, which it was perfectly impossible could be moved. The . real cause of this was Members being engaged up-stairs on Committees. He did not speak of Public Committees alone, but whenever an indi vidual, however well qualified he might be to attend a public committee was acquainted with any private road that his constituents were concerned in, they made it a point of addressing him to attend that private committee ; he then had to leave the public committee to go to the private com mittee; then he was locked up until there was a division, when he was hunted like a malefactor, and at last when found, he was obliged to leave the committee and get down stairs just in time to give a vote.—( Hear, and laughter.) What con dition would the House be in when 50 or 60 rail-roads came into it—(lmmense laughter)—if 50 or 60 rail-road Bills were introduced:—( Hear, hear.) He would give them the example of the Western Rail-road, which was before the House about 70 days. Two gentlemen were on a Committee which lie had had on special business, they being the best informed men in the House ; they were taken away the first day, and obliged to sit day after day upon the private Committee, although' it appeared to him there was no necessity for their attendance upon it. Now he submitted they ought not to be dealing in patchwork, but to look at what was the real evil, and meet it fairly. If the public business could not be got through be tween the hours of 10 in the morning and 12 at night, the House ought to sit all the year round.—( Hear.) He protested against legislating by candlelight, either to please professional or any other men, and that they ought to be permitted to go home like decent people at twelve o'clock. Sir R. PEEL said he had now had considerable experi ence of that House—( Hear, hear)—but he felt bound to say that, during all that experience, he' had never beard such a proposition made, as had just come from the Hon. Member for Middlesex. He had never heard it pro. posed that that House should forego all cpntroul over its private business.-4 Hear, hear.) Private business involved on many occasions many matters of the very greatest import ance, and he for one would certainly never consent that it should be transferred to any other authority or tribunal whatever. The Hon. Member said, what signified a road in Yorkshire ? It was true that there might be a road lead ing to a village which was of little importance, but there might be the case of a great and leading railroad through the country, which would be of the very greatest importance; and lie would never consent that the consideration of such should be taken from Parliament. The Hon. Member admitted that there must be some new regulation as to the mode of conduct ing the public business—then why press on this resolution before that arrangement was made ? The resolution, however, would not meet the evil—it did not in any way interfere with a debate upon a subject which had occupied the House during the pre vious part of the evening. It was only new business that was interfered with, and so the resolution would not do what the Hon. Member wanted ; viz.—allow him and other Hon. Mem bers to go home at 12 o'clock. He was of opinion that the matter was better left in the hands of the House, and he was perfectly certain that an intimation to any Hon. Member would be attended to. It was quite impossible for them to come to any resolution for meeting at 10 o'clock in the morn ing without making a vast number of changes in other mat ters. Leaving out all mention of Committees, then, he would ask whether the presence of the many merchants from the city, of the most eminent lawyers, was not of some consequence were their services not of some avail ? He did not think that the public would benefit much by their being shut out, which would be the consequence of Such a Resolution. Then to take the case of Public Com mittees—if the House sat at that early hour, when would they discharge the duties of Committees ?—The evil would not be met by giving them leave to sit along with the House. Then again he did not think that the public servi6e would be bene fited by the Ministers of the Crown being obliged to transact the business of their offices at the hours of two or three o'clock in the morning, which would inevitably be the case, if they were obliged to attend that House during the day. It appeared to him that these corresponding regulations should be made, and under these circumstances, as it was impossible that they could be carried into effect, and he could not give his consent to the resolution of the Hon. Gentleman. Mr. HUME begged to explain. He did not mean to lessen the importance of public roads throughout the country ; but what he would urge was, that it was unnecessary to bring questions of that sort up to London, and that local tribunals might be appointed to decide upon the propriety of such applications.—( Hear, hear, hear.) With respect to a new arrangement interfering with the business of London lawyers and merchants, he would be glad to ask the Right Hon. Gen tleman how many lawyers and merchants of London sat in that House ? Were they not comparatively few when they looked at the number of Irish and Scotch merchants and lawyers, and all those who came up from various parts of the country to attend their Parliamentary duties ?—( Hear, and cries of " Spoke, spoke.") Mr. EWART entirely agreed with the observation of the Hon. Meml;er for Middlesex, that much local business now transacted by that House could be judiciously transferred to local tribunals. What he complained of was the inequality Of the business transacted in that House. On what were technically termed " Field day's," there was a very full' at tendance of Members, but he would appeal to the Right Hon. Baronet himself, without meaning anyttieg disrespectful to him, whether it was possible for him to attend on all ordi nary occasions ?—( Hear, hear.) There must be a beginning made, and as the House had already recognised the proposi tion of the Hon. Member for Salford, the sooner the present one was adopted and sanctioned the better. Perhaps the bet ter` plan would be to devote three days of the week to public business, and three days to public Committees. Whatever the House would determine upon, a beginning must be made sooner or later, and he had no objection to modify his resolu tion so as to meet the views of the House. Mr. T. ATT WOOD thought the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, as to the propriety of establishing local boards to decide upon the question of rail-roadi and others of a like nature, was most judicious, wiih power to appeal to that House. He was decidedly in favour of the business of the House being transacted at earlier hours than has hitherto been the case, as four-fifths of it were hurried over in a very negli gent manner. Dr. BOWRING said, that though a young Member. of that House, yet, in the growing increase of the interests of the community, he felt, and he was sure that many agreed with him in this conviction, that something must be speedily done to disencumber that House of the great many claims upon their attention. He had witnessed the proceedings of more representative bodies than most individuals of that House, and he could say that that was the only representative body that did not make all other concerns subordinate to the great public interests entrusted to their care. The public service would gain very much if they gave to the public interests the hours of day, instead of the weary and exhausting hours of night. It became them to take some measures for the further ance of the public business ; and he trusted that the House would give attention to the proposal of his 'Noble Friend; and sure he was, that unless the period arrived in which the day sinuld be given to the great concerns of the nation, those con cerns could not be 'properly attended to. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided for the motion. Ayes Noes - 233 Majority against the motion —lB2 STANDING ORDER COMMITTEE. Sir JOHN WROTTESL EY gave notice, that on Mtn day next, "Gc should move for the appointmrnt f the Standing Order Committee. BONDED CORN. Mr. HEATHG. 4 OThasQ whether it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to bring forward any mea sure on the subject of allowing foreign corn in bond to be taken out to be greund; and then exported, distinguishing whether it would be imperative that all such corn should be exported, or whether an equivalent quantity of English corn would be sufficient.. Mr. P. THOMPSON was understood to say that it was not the intention of his Majesty's Government to bring forward any measure on the subject. THE ADDRESS TO HIS MAJESTY. SIT JOHN VVROTTESLEY Drought up the Report on the Address. On the question that it be read, Mr. FE CT OR rose—He felt it his duty upon the present occasion to raise his voice against several parts of the Ad dress, particularly that part which related to the con test in Spain—a contest which was disgraceful to every person connected with it.—( Hear, hear.) He thought the House ought not to give its approbation to measures which had caused blood to flow at Barcelona—he thought the course adopted by the late Government on the subject, ought to be discarded by every thinking man. What was it they had done ? Why, they had sent out a band of hired ruffians, for the express purposes of plunder.—(Hear.) The English army, in his opinion, was disgraced by the expe dition which had been sent to Spain. The British uniform was disgraced by it—the British officers were disgraced by it, and an indelible stain was cast upon the entire British Empire., Deeply did he regret that the Minister of the Crown should lend his sanction to such conduct. Deeply did he regret that' the character of England,which had formerly been regarded with respect by every Court in Europe, was now looked down upon with abject contempt. Mr. GROVE PRICE rose amidst loud cries of oh oh ! If it were the feeling of that House that he should sit down, he 'would at once obey its mandate ; but he claimed his right as a Member of Parliament to offer his opinion on the present question, and he thought that the interruption which he had met with, did not reflect credit on the quarter from whence it proceeded. He did not regret not having entered into the discussion last night, when the Amendment of the Right Hon. Baronet was under dis cussion, because he did not wish to join together two subj jccts of a different nature.—( Hear, hear.) He felt strongly upon the subject of their foreign policy, and having spent some years in an endeavour to understand the situation of that un fortunate country which had been the scene of the most glo- - rious exploits of the British army, he should not feel inclined to allow the Address to pass without expressing his opinion on the subject of the affairs of Spain. Motives of justice and of humanity alike impelled him not to leave the House without giving vent to the indignation which filled his bosom at the atrocities there committed. The Address talked of the vigour and prudence of the Queen's Government. Where was that vigour? Every where but in the field. The vigour was to be found in the massacre of on offending individuals by a savage mob, and the pruden9c in that horriVics - exhibitiern, which might be 'compared to a'actur- - nalia of terror, led en by a monster lost to every feeling of humanity, and without regard to any party politics.--( Cries of " Oh, oh I) Yes, he would call him a monster, clothed_ in none of the garb of human nature, and who should be execrable to society—such was the monster of Catalonia. If to vigour and prudence they had added the word " mercy," it would have been the bitterest sarcasm that the . hand of man had ever penned. But the monsters of Barcelona had done more • they had placed the children of hostages--the unoffend ing infants—before the ranks of the troops, in order that the fathers might direct the guns of the soldiers, and that the first discharge should be in the,; bosoms of their childreri.—( Cries of " Oh.") Were these the men to be defended ? He must apologise for speaking so warmly, but he could not conceive any thing more perfectly horrible • and whether tl.ese atroci ties had been committed on one side or the other, he would have felt equally indignant.—( Hear, hear.) But what would they say when they found those very massacres—this very scene of Barcelona—an exact copy of the atrocities committed at Nantes by Fouche ? The bodies of the victims were exposed to the most horrible insults. And these were the men whom some Liberal Members contended were the best recipients of a system of representative Government. How had that word been abused ? Before they established free dom they should first establish the laws of justice and humanity. Had there been any examination of the murderers ? —No. A few-had been made examples of, but the murderers of Barcelona remained unpunished. And what was their prudence? It consisted of a large spoliation of the ecclesiastical property of Spain, to satisfy the vultures of the different exchanges of Europe.—( Hear.) He objected to spoliation of eccle siastical property, whether in this country or in any other, He would ,JIOW venture to say a few words respecting the rea sons which induced him to disagree with that part of the Address which expressed a hope for the speedy crushing of Don Carlos's party, and that was the party of Spain.—(" No, no.") If Hon. Gentlemen would wait for a few moments, he would prove to them that such was the fact. He knew the country well, and had many friends in it, and was able to say that Spain was divided into two parties.—( Hear.) The Queen's party consisted of people in office, and of men who held republican opinions they are .the men who welcomed Joseph, and who, if they succeeded in crushing Don Car los, would hurl Christina and her daughter from the throne in less than six months. It consisted of men of great talents, he must admit that. There were, also a few apostate clergy joined with them ; but that was almost all. On the other hand, the Carlists consisted—not as the Noble Lord told him eight months ago, that Don Carlos:and his party were totally confined to the Basque provinces—that party was now formed of the great mass of the rural population of Spain. They held very large divisions of towns. The Clergy were with them almost to a man. He had the pleasure of informing the Noble Lord- that at this moment there , were - ---100;000 powerful and determined men in arms, in favour of Don Carlos.—( Loud Laughter.) They were first a people 'of civil and pastoral race, longsac customed to their own institutions and their own habits. They lived and died as their forefathers had lived and died—(hear) —he had used one word in mistake—he would withdraw the word " died".—(Laughter.) The first principle which the Carlists had imbibed was one which, perhaps, the Noble Lord opposite would be astonished to hear from his lips, but they had contracted what might be called, and he did not use the words in an invidious sense, something of the stern ness ani resoluteness of the republican character. They bad next a, devoted attachment to their institutions, which. they had possessed from the earliest period. The third prin ciple they were imbued with, was the principle of religion .--they were attached to the Clergy.—( Hear, hear.) The fourth was, and he gloried in it, their chivalrous spirit, which had been called forth to rally round the standard of a Prince who, having suffered distress and privation, pre ferred, to a life of ease and wealth, the high and lofty habits which had been bequeathed to him, as the descen dant of the first Prince of Europe ; and chose to share the bivouac of soldiers, rather than to degrade himself by accepting the miserable pension offered to him. In such a cause as this, every good and brave man would crowd round the standard of their country, encounter every dif ficulty, and dare the worst in its cause. Look on the other party, the Christinos, who were actually dragged into the field without the slightest interest but their pay. Were they able to meet such hardy warriors ? No • for wherever they bad met them, notwithstanding the fictitious accounts that had been published, they had fled before them. Was not the conduct of the opposite party most humane and moderate, while the' return made by the Christinos was the shooting' of wounded volunteere ?—( Hear, hear.) Had not the Christinos massacred whole villages ? Was there not decimation after decimation of their men ?—and yet the Noble Lord came down with a bland and dulcet voice, announcing that the Queen's vigorous and prudent conduct would soon restore tranquillity. Here he, must be permitted to express his surprise,at a letter which lately appeared in the public prints, addressed by the Noble Lord Palmerston to the Bishop of Leon, who had writ ten to him in the spirit of a clergyman in behalf of some un happy men who had been taken prisoners. The Noble Lord had replied to that letter in a tone which he (Mr. Price) con sidered rather unhappy, as partaking more of flippancy than suited the expression of opinion by a Minister of the Crown, on such an occasion.—( Hear, hear.) The Bishop of Leon, though not of the same faith with him (Mr. Prince), must be admitted to be a man who was a pattern of true virtue, whose principles of honour and integrity were unquestionable, and who had left wealth and rank, because lie could not express his obedience to a system which be could not conscientiously THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY, FEBRUARY /836. support.—( Hear, hear.) The application of suclim. man in ^merit, bravery, and reputation, engaged in the species of behalf of a claim aided by mercy and humanity, shout& 'not, in warfare in which he was engaged at present. The Hon. his mind, have been met by a reference to chargaaa against Member for Middlesex had made an unjustifiable and un- Don Carlos.—(Hear, hear.) Such a man, whateve.r his re.. called for attack on the other House of Parliament. The ligion might be, claimed the respect, and challenged th 3 admi- Hon. Gentleman had said that the proceedings of that ration, of all who acknowledged the fundamental pri'arciples Hous I. did not meet with his approbation. God forbid they and practice of all real Christians.—( Hear, hear.) To re- ever should ! God forbid that the advocate of every innovation turn, however, to the Address. He was willing to admit be ita nature what it might, in the existing institutions of the that this country should not be looked upon as an is elated country, should sully the proceedings of the House of Lords land, the condition of which must rematii uninfluence d by with cne word 'of approbation. It was to the House of Lords, the changes and convulsions that took plaaec in the- greater !lowa.; er, that every sincere friend to the monarchy must look countries of the world : on the contrary, he' confessed th at i for its protection in this hour of danger. When the reflections this country must suffer by any injoy being intflicted cnv the . which the H on . M em b er f or Mi dd l esex had formerly thrown social condition and happiness of foreigm Statias^, How, then,.. i out, both in that House and out of doors, were recola could he look at the disordered, distracted state of Spain, with-. 1 lectbd, i t wou ld not appear surprising that he should out entertaining strong apprehensions of evils' and misfortunes? cast such aspersions as he had that evening cast on the Nothing was more delightful than to turn from the Woolley pica House .of Lords, however derogatory the indulgence of such ture which that country presented, and to regard the friendly terms must be considered to the character and dignity of a union subsisting between us and Louis Phillipiae--" the Kieg Member of the House of Commons. What business had of the Barricades of July"—the ~ Friend o f F r otee." Some i Members of the House of C ommons on every occasion to Hon. Gentlemen maintained that thrones we, - e - hallowed I bring the proceedings of the House of Lords into debate? by legitimacy alone ; why there was not a legitimate` Monarch I What right had they to endeavour to expose the House of in Europe who could have performed with impun.;ty one- Lords to public odium ? What right had they to assert that hundredth part of the acts which this friend and proteii•or of tote House of Lords was indifferent to the interests, deaf t o the press and ancient laws has already perpetrated. Why the prayers, and ignorant of the wants of the people ? Such the Emperor of Russia dare not do so. But the present sl 'ate charge were mcst unjustifiable ; although they were worthy of France was the penalty which she paid for indulging in of the how. Gentleman who had made them. If he were that saturnalia of wickedness and cruelty which it was a l mo a, t called up 0 37 to make any remarks on the Speech, which, by impossible should not have been succeeded by the establish- the advice at his Ministers, his Majesty had yesterday made merit of a d e sp o tism. He put it to the Noble Lord whether I from the Throne, he would say that, with the exception of he did no t t hi n k h e cou ld h ave s e l e ct e d more faithful allies for 'bat passage which described the principle on which the al this country than those which he had chosen.—(No, no.) If l eg . e d a jnises in the Irish Muvicipal Corporations ought to he was wrong in his supposition, he was open to correction. b e reform ed, it was vox et preterea nihil. It placed nothing In his opini o n, an a lliance with F r anc e must be as uncertain in a sat)tdatatory light. One impala - tent question, which had as ill-tempered mortar. The present generation in that eoun- occasioned so , much warfare in the last Session, was entirely try could never f or get the achievements of this country. The passed over, or at least was confined to a recommendation next genera tion w ould be bred up in th e same sentiment of to effect a juaa settlement of the question of tithe in Ire hatred.—(No, no.) An alliance with E ng l an d would always land. He (Mr. Trevor) hoped it might be settled, in the be an object of detestation in France. The mortified vanity words of the Spec,* " upon such principle as would tend of the French people would perpetuate this feeling, as long as at length to establisi; harmony and peacein that country." the military trophies which we had gained at Waterloo should But, considering the ha gds into which the settlement would continue to exist. Let him, therefore, caution the Noble Lord probably fall, it was impassible not to look with a jealous against relying too securely, on such an alliance. He did not eye at the question. He coi.'fessed that he had no confidence say this on the ground of what had been called the natural hos- in men who, in the last sessice of Parliament, supported the tility between the two countries ; but he asserted, that the iniquitous proposition that Churc. ll property might be applied events of the last 40 years had created so tremendous a feeling to any other, as well as to ecelesia.atical purposes. Judging of hostility, that centuries must elapse before it could be from such conduct, he expected only y a lans of Church spolia calmed. The contest between the new classes of Radicals fiat). If such plans should be proposoac he hoped a feeling and the old classes of Conservatives had been such as to excite w o u ld b e m anifested on the part of the people of England M. the most powerful passions of the human breast; and when that would make his Majesty's Ministers patnae in their career. once excited, great, indeed, was the difficulty of allaying them. -Mr. E WART observed, with reference ter the accusation Mr. HUME said that the Hon. Member for Dover had preferred by the Hon. Member for Durham against his Hon. characterised the Hon. and Gallant Member for Westminster F r i en d t h e Member for Middlesex, of treating the House of in a manner and in language that could not b e borne in any ci- Lords with disrespect, that the House of Lords had on former vilized coun t r y.—(No, no , an d h ear , h ear .) Th ere were no occasions been compelled to adopt measures Welt had been epithets in th e E ng li s h l a nguage worse th an those which the advocated by the Hon. Member for Middlesex, an al that it was Hon. Gentleman had applied to his Honourable and Gallant exc ee di n gly probable that they would be bliged to do so Friend, and t o t h e B r i t i s h troo p s w hi c h were serving under again. There were measures which the Hon. M e wber for him. Did the Honourable Gentleman seriously think that a Middl esex wo uld advocate_that might be carried—that rallst be gallant officer, who had so highly distinguished himself in the carr i e d th ro ugh the other House. The Hon. Member' for British service, ought to be spoken 'of in such terms? The S an d w i c h had panegyrized with some vehemence the ph.raa time would come when his Honourable and Gallant Friend seology i n which the Hon. Member for Dover had characta' would have an opportunity of vindicating himself ; but as the ri ze d th e conduct of one of the parties in Spain. On that time had not arrived, he (Mr. Hume) could not refrain from point he (Mr. Ewart) would only say, that, like the Hon. protesting against the course which had been pursued by the Member for Middlesex—and he was sure like every other Honourable Member for Dover. The language used by the Member of that House—he reprobated inhumanity, on which Honourable Member was entirely inapplicable to the object of side soever it might be exhibited. But there was one part of his attack, who was perfectly j us tified i n w h a t h e had done. the speech of the Hon. Member for Sandwich against which Was it the first time that English troops had fought under he (Mr. Ewart) must strongly protest; he meant the passage foreign banners ? And for what did they fight ? For the cause in which the Hon. Member spoke of the enmity that existed of the Constitution, and for the cause of Liberty. He would between this country and France. He must say that he had take upon himself to say that, considering the whole of the heard with great regret and pain the declaration, that because language used by the Honourable Member for Dover, and the one generation might have cherished such an enmity r it must Honourable Member for Sandwich, with respect to the sys- be cherished by the next generation also. This was a strange tern of proceedings in Spain, those Honourable Gentlemen and unphilosophical - view of the tendencies of nations, and he ought to be grateful for any assistance that was calculated to trusted it would prove to be an erroneous one. For his own put an end to such a system. Did the Honourable Member part, he hailed with infinite satisfaction the statement in his for Dover suppose that there was any man in that House, on Majesty's Speech of the intimate alliance between the two which side soever of it he might sit, who approved of the countries—an alliance, however, which he wished to consider atrocious proceedings of either the Carlists or the aßepub- not so much between the Moparch of this country and the licans—or who would give his sanction to the dreadful pro- Monarch of Frasice, as between the people of this country and ceedings which had taken place at Barcelona or elsewhere ? the people of France. To the present Monarch of France it _—(Hear.) It was true that the Honourable and Learned was impossible not to apply a line from the works of one of the Member for Dublin alone had in that House distinctly charac- greatest poets of which that country could boast— terised those proceedings, and had condemed Mina and the " Jamais l'exil n'a corrigd les rois." • - other individuals connected with them, in the manner in which In those parts of the Address alluded to by the Honourable they deserved to be characterised; but did the Hon. Member Member for Middlesex, he (Mr. Ewart) cordially concurred. for Dover therefore suppose that there was any man in that Although circumstances might 'warrant an increase -of the House prepared to defend those proceedings ? For himself, navy, he trusted that no long time would elapse before they he willingly admitted that it was impossible to conceive any- would be enabled to reduce the army, especially that part of thing more horrible than the Barcelona murders. But what it which was quartered in Ireland.—( Hear.) Sure he was was their cause? It was the violence of the proceedings on that the only real and sure road to economy was through the the other Side of the question which led to retribution and means of reason and justice.--( Hear.) punishment. All this only showed what must be the result of Mr. GROVE PRICE, in explanation, begged distinctly civil war, and ought to act as a strong inducement on those to state that be bad never for a moment intended to express who had the power of putting an end to it to do so. He there- regret at the alliance between France and England, nor was fore thought the whole of that portion of the speeches of the he an advocate for the maintenance of any feeling of hereditary Hon. Members for Dover and Sandwich which was addressed hatred between the two countries. to this subject was irrelevant; and he thought that those Hon. Mr. POTTER could not but regret the observations which Gentlemen had cast aspersions where they ought to have ab- ^ had fallen froth the Hon. Member for Durham in reference _ _ _ _ _ __ to the lion. and Gallant Member for Westminster. The re flections attempted to be cast upon the conduct of that Gallant Officer he thought were wholly uncalled for. As regarded the Speech delivered from the Throne, he confessed that to him it had afforded unbounded satisfaction, and as it became known thrmighout the country, he had no doubt but that the feeling of satisfaction would become general.—( Hear.) As a Dissenter, he - begged leave to thank his Majesty's Ministers for the intimation which the Speech conveyed, of their tion speedily to remove those grievances under which the dis senting body still laboured.—( Hear.) Upon that point he hoped he might congratulate them that one of the intended measures of relief would be the removal of the odious impost known by the name of Church Rates.—( Hear.) He ,rejoiced exceedingly in the decision to which the House had come last evening, because he felt it would carry peace to Ireland, and enable us to carry on the government of that country without the necessity of maintaining so large a military force as unfor tunately had hitherto been found requisite. He hoped, also, that the men and estimates for the navy would be met by a large reduction of those for the army.—( Hear. )' Mr. A. TREVOR, in explanation, begged to state that the Hon. Member for Wigan, who had just sat down, had certainly misunderstood what had fallen from him ; he never made any reflection whatever on the conduct of Gen. Evans. Dr. BO WRING had heard with great pain -and regret the speech of the Hon. Member for Sandwich. Last .night he had hailed it as a triumph for the cause of humanity, liberty, and civilization, when the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, sitting in the same place as that at present occupied by the Hon. Member for Sandwich, stated that he saw with delight the arrival of an epoch at which the intimate union which existed between( France and England might be referred to as one of the boasts and triumphs of the present times.—( Hear, hear.) On the other hand, it was with great distress that he had heard falling from the lips of the Hon. Member for Sandwich what he would venture to call ca lumnies against two great nations. The Hon. Member for Sandwich represented the Spanish nation as unworthy of liberty, and he spoke with something like an intimation that he was intimately acquainted with the circumstances of Spain, and the nature and character of the troubles by which she was at present distracted. Emboldened of that knowledge, the Hon. Member broadly declared that the popular feeling of Spain was ranged pn the side of Don Carlos. Now the Hon. Member must allow him (Dr. Bowring) to say that that was not the fact.—( Hear, hear.) He (Dr. Bowring) was not without sonic personal knowledge of Spain, and he would venture to assert that for the last thirty years the people of the Spanish nation had every day been rising in intelligence, and every day feeling more and more the desire to obtain con stitutional guarantees for their freedom. And he would venture further to assert, that the Spanish people had entered upon a career in which they would ultimately succeed—a career which led to constitutional freedom, and its natural con sequences— to happiness, prosperity, and liberty.—( Hear, hear.) There existed in Spain a desire and determination to obtain good government, and in spite of Don Carlos, and in spite of the advocates of 1)on Carlos, the people of Spain would obtain their desire, and, before long a constitutional Go vernment would be firmly established in that country.—( Hear, hear.) The friends of liberty looked brightly to the future —the friends of despotism could look ; ortly darkly to the past, --(Hear, hear.) Nor was it true thatahe people of France had any other than a friendly feeling towards the people of England. • It had been his privilege to traverse France in all directions ; and, with the knowledge he had thus obtained of the feeling of that country, he could venture to assert, that as soon as England got rid of the incubus which so long had depressed her energies—as soon as England appeared in her reformed and regenerated character, every feeling of ani mosity ceased, and the affection of France and Frenchmen , was obtained for her ; and he had no doubt but that England would reap the full benefit of this improved state of things.— ( Hear, hear.) If the present judicious policy was pursued, he had no doubt but that all animosities between the two countries would pass away, and that the alliance between England and France would establish the peace and prosperity, not only of Europe, but of the world at large.—( Hear, hear. ) Lord FRANCIS EGERTON had not intended to have taken any part in the discussion of the evening, nor should he have done so but for the notice which the Hon. Member for Liverpool (Mr. Ewart) had taken for a cheer which came from him whilst the Hon. Member was speaking. It certainly did appear to him (Lord F. Egerton) that the line of argu ment which the Hon. Member for Liverpool pursued, laid down the position that this country through all ranks and classes held something like an unqualified concurrence in the opinions which the Hon. Member himself entertained. Fancying that to be the position intended to be laid down, he (Lord F. Egerton) in his situation in that House, did take the liberty of express ing his dissent from it; . for he could not but feel that, however easy it might be to raise a clamour, and to beat down argument amidst that portion of the community which was not prone to express its sentiments in the noise of public meetings--( Hear, hear) —he (Lord F. Egerton) had at least a right, representing as he did some thousands of constituents in that House, to state that those sentiments were not entertained by a portion, and not the least respectable portion of the community. That was the meaning of the cheer to which the Hon. Member re ferred. Being then before the House, he might perhaps be allowed to make one or two observations on certain pas sages contained in the King's Speech. He was bound to say that he felt anxious to express, with more energy than he could convey by a silent vote, his own individual con currence in the sentiments expressed (by his Right Hon. Friend, the Member for Tamvvorth, last evening, and which met with the approbation of the Noble Lord opposite, with re spect to the relative position of this country towards France.— ( Hear.) He might perhaps entertain some doubt as to whe ther it were altogether prudent or politic to lay a stress upon the connexion between the two countries, as compared with those specific relations which, he thanked God, England still maintained with respect to the other poivers of Europe.— (Hear.) Congratulating ourselves too strongly upon our stained from doing so. The Address itself contained allusions to so many important questions, that he was unwilling to offer a single Observation upon them. When he looked at the statements respecting the prospect of a continuance of pewee in the woad, the expediency of settling the tithe question in England and Ireland, the justice of putting the Dissenters on the s ..e footing as their fellow-subjects, and the other mea sur t Vested - to irr the—Address; he , could only say that he considered those measures as the harbingers of the peace and prosperity of the empire. On the whole, therefore, he hailed the Speech from the Throne as pregnant with advantage to the country. But there was one single point on which he begged leave to say a word ; be meant the proposition for increasing the%supplies required for the navy. If his Majesty's Govern ment would get rid of ten thousand of the troops now em ployed in Ireland (which, in his opinion, under existing cir cumstances, they might do with perfect safety), they might apply the money to the naval service. The reasons assigned for this increase of the naval expenditure were the same as those which had been assigned in similar cases by every Go vernment in the country during the last twenty years. For his part he could see no sound reason for the step, and he hoped his Majesty's Ministers would reconsider it. He pro tested against that proposition as the only part of the Speech and Address to which he had an objection. He repeated that he had no objection to reduce the army in Ireland for the pur pose of increasing the navy. While Ireland was ill-treated it must be filled with troops; but if justice were done it, if it were put on the same civil footing as England, so also might its military establishment. In his opinion, his Majesty's Mi nisters in that House deserved great credit for their persevering resistance to the amendment on the Address which had been moved by the Hon. Member for Tamworth. He wished their colleagues in another place had shown equal firmness. How was it to be understood that Ministers sitting in the' same 'Ca binet should hold different opinions on a question of so much importance ? He was quite aware that it might be supposed that there was a majority in the other House of Parliament which rendered any opposition to the proposed amendment hopeless. But that was the very reason for persevering in that opposition, as the result would show the country who were the parties favourable, and who were the parties unfavourable, to Liberal principles. To him it would be the last recom mendation of any proposition to say that it was favoured by the House of Lards. He considered them as destitute of fellow -feeling for their countrymen ; as out of the pale of general sympathy:—( A laugh, and hear, hear.) The time was coining when this would be the universal conviction of the community. Though the Lords were privileged, they wore not privileged to do evil. The proceedings of the House of Lords last year were not of a nature to recommend the adoption of any of their propositions. While, therefore, he congratulated the Ministers in the House of Commons on their successful resistance to the amendment of last night, he lamented the acquiescence in it of the Ministers in the other House of Parliament. This state of things, however, could not go on long. ~The Lords must be made to feel that the people were determined upon having a real reform of abuses, and a good and economical government; and that, unless they turned over a new leaf, whatever they recommended would be opposed, and whatever they opposed would be sup ported and carried.—(A laugh.) Out of that House, no voice was raised in favour of the House of Lards. He defied any man to show him a• public meeting at which the House of Lords bad been spoken of with favour. They might be courteously treated in Conservative societies ; but he repeated his denial, that at any public meeting they had been spoken well of by any class of the people. He hoped there would be no change in the determination of that House ; he hoped there would be no chancre in the determination of hi s Ma jesty's Ministers, evi nce d last year, and in which determina tion the country would warmly support them, to yield equal justice to Scotland, Ireland, and England.—( Hear, hear.) That certainly would not be the case, if the Tories were to come into place. He would not refuse them the indulgence of fancying they might do so • but in his opinion there was very little c h ance o f i t. I n the meanwhile, he would continue strongly to recommend public economy. It had been found that Acts of Parliament would not keep up the price of corn. The remedy was to reduce the establishments of the country, as the prices had been reduced, to the level of the year 1792. To that 'they must come. The expenses of the Government, notwithstanding the great reductions which had been made by the present Administration, were still altogether too much. The country ought not to be saddled with any additional ex pense for the navy or army; and he had confidently expected that great reductions would have been made in the colonial and other branches of the Government. Ministers would never have his uniform support, while he saw them continuing a larger system of expense than in his opinion they ought to maintain. With these observations, he entirely concurred in the proposed Address. Mr. TREVOR would not have' risen on the present occa sion, did he not feel the great injustice of the view which the Hon. Member for Middlesex had taken of the expressions which had been used by his Hon. Friend the Member for Dover. The Hon. Member for Middlesex charged bis Hon. Friend with having used unjustifiable expressions. He (Mr. Trevor) was totally ignorant of the fact. Although he bad listened with the greatest attention to his Honourable Friend's manly and admirable speech, he was at a loss to call to mind any expressions which deserved the terms which the lion. Member for Middlesex had applied to them. He felt gr eatl y indebted t o t h e Hon. Member for Dover for the luminous view which he had taken of that most important part of the Address which had reference to Spain. If ever there was an instance of improper interference, it was the course which had been adopted by his Majesty's present Government re specting Spanish affairs.--(Hear, hear.) And while he de nied that the Honourable Member for Dover bad made a single unjustifiable personal allusion, he (Mr. Trevor) per fectly concurred with him, when he described the British troops in Spain as the refuse of the rabble in London. With respect to their commander, it was certainly disgraceful to the character of our army, to see an officer of such great alliance with France, other nations might F(4s - te4 ' d to take umbrage at our expressions, anCiiiisito._ 6 t, ought to be avoided. At the same tiato '' / - d to criticise or to quarrel with the terms•nt pi ''' A' cause he thought it well . that the Mitkis -` ' - ' Vfl should. know that the continuance ofA4 c liance with a great and ' powerful neisAb ' I tik. , ~ tv s - main features of our foreign policy.—;4 -• ; ( 4 1 ' 1 4 .- • ' o separation had of late been made betty ' ;tic; very remarkable, and able, and powerful m hands her destinies were at present placed. He (Lord F. Egerton) was not one of those who was disposed to eulogize in them selves some of the measures which had been adopted by the Goyeenment of France ; but he should be as little inclined, without a full and due referonee to all the circumstances in which that . Government was placed, to involve its leader in the strong and, as it appeared to him, somewhat indiscreet cen sure which had been laviahed upon him elsewhere—( Hear)._ and by those very persons who, he believed, were the loudest advocates for the maintenance of the connection which at present existed between the two countries.--(Hear.) He knew that Louis Philippe vias,seated on a throne surrounded by bayonets : he knew that those win; were once first in the ranks of periodical libellers had condemned the very semblance of such measures as had been adopted in France ; but he asked those gentlemen who were so zealous for the .alliance of that country with England to pause before they paosed an indis criminate censure upon those measures, and tio consider for a moment the circumstances tinder which they had been resorted to. He (Lord Francis Egerton) did not Presume to be suffi ciently inf orme d w i t h respect t& those circumstances to form a decided judgment upon them ; but he had seen something of the main features of the necessity under which they were Lad recourse to, and at ,least he could draw this moral from the events that had appeared before him—he could ask gen tlemen to 'consider that if such consequences had grown up from what they would call, and what he did, not mean to dis pute, was a necessary and-omore than justifiable revolution in the affairs of France, what could they expect from a revolu tion not justifiable in itself, nor called for by any exigency in which the country was placed.—( Hear, hear.) It was in t hat point of view he confessed that the measures he alluded to presented to him an obstacle in the further cultivation of those Friendly relations which he thought of such importance to our political situation on the continent. These were no new doc trines of his own—they were the old and acknowledged doc trines of that party to which he (Lord F. Egerton) belonged; and to which, in more fortunate days, the Noble Lord oppo site (Lord Palmerston) was himself attached ; they were the doctrines acted on by Lord Castlereagh in the first Congress after the war; when England entered into an alliance with France and Austria, in opposition to Russia and other Powers of the North. He (Lord F. E.) thought the alliance with France on of the utmost value. With rega r d t o th a t passage Of the Spe ech which referred to the affairs of Spain, he must say that were he called upon by any distinct motion to concur in those peculiar expressions, which were not at the moment be fore him, he should feel some difficulty, not in expressing the hope, but in concurring in the• expectation that the measures which had been adopted by the Government of this country to afford assistance to the Government of the Queen of. Spain, were likely to effect a speedy termination of the sanguinary contest in that country, which every man who heard him, as . well as every man in England, must desire to see terminated. (.1 - faar, hear.) It might be, that the Noble Lord (Palmer ston) was in possession of information upon the subject, which was not accessible to ordinary observers—it might be that re cent ,';snatches and recent accounts had furnished the Noble Lord wit;! grounds for hope, which, as at present informed, he (Lord Francis Egerton) confessed he could not himself en tertain. • Bui however that might be, he. (Lord Francis Eger ton) should not so far depart from the rules of practice which he had always . 43;, , served in that House, as to put any direct question to the N o ble Lord upon the point, standing as the Noble Lord did in the peculiarly delicate situation in which the Minister for Foreii s yn Affairs was always placed.—( Hear.) He asked for no inforrui;tion, therefore, which the Noble Lord. did not think proper, ot. his own accord, to lay before the House ; but there was nothing that he was aware of fore the country which could jive one reason to suppose that ' the steps which had been taken by the Government with the view of terminating the war in Spain, had, as yet, suc ceeded in producing the slightest diminu.tion of the horrors of the contest, or affording any reasonable hope that within a short period the struggle would be terminated.—{ Hear.) He (Lord Francis Egerton) should be glad to read his re cantation, if these views of events should justify him in doing ' so.—(Hear, hear.) He, for one, entertained no wish nor desire to see a Government re-established in Spain which should rest upon the violent Catholic party or upon the Inq,ni sition. But so rash had been the measures of those opp o se d to that system, and to that policy, that it was impossible.fm: hilp, to look forward with hope or expectation to the period. %%hen tranquillity should be restored in a country so dis tracted and torn by civil convulsions as,the Peninsula of Spain. Upon these grounds, because he thought that passage in the Speech from the Throne insincere and untrue—he did not mean to use the terms offensively to those who-drew up the Speech—it would certainly have been out of power, the matter been brought before him in a separate or mox . e specific form, to have given his assent to it.—(,Bear.) The opinions which he had expressed with respect to French politics might have some shades of difference from the: opinions of those gentleman who had previously addressed' the House upon the subject ; they were opinions, however, which he honestly entertained, and which he had not hesitated frankly to declare.—( Hear, hear.) Lord PALMERSTON.—It is notznyintention to trespaas upon the attention of the-. House for, more..than a very few minutes ; but in consequence of the turn which the debate has taken, I am anxious to offer a few words before the Address is agreed to. I must begin by expressing my sincere regret that. any Hon. Members should have thought it expedient—should have thought it consistent with their sense of duty and with their fcelings—to express the opinions they have done with re gard to those Members of the House who have so nobly, as I contend, volunteered their services in the cause of the Queer' of Spain.—( Hear, hear.) I regret that any Hon. Members should have expressed opinions which I am convinced are so utterly opposite to those of the people of this country— ( Hear)—and which are, in my opinion, founded upon so erro neous a view, and so defective a feeling upon the subject to which they relate.—( Hear, hear.) I think that the Hon. and Gallant Member for Westminster, who is now serving at the head of a large body of our countrymen in Spain, deserves well of his. country for having undertaken the service in which he is engaged ; and I can assure the Hon. Member for Sand wich that the hopes, and feelings, and wishes, and prayers of a great portion of the people of this country arc embarked in the success of his cause. The Hon. Member for Sand wich, feeling, no doubt, and remembering how difficult it is for a man to be a propheLin, his own country, and perhaps diffident of his own powers to make himself an exception to the rule, has started to-night as a prophet with respect to foreign affairs.—( Laughter and cheers.) He has given us one prophecy with regard to Spain, and another with re gad to France.—( Hear, hear.) With regard to Spain, lie has told us — an d he pledged his sagacity, his knowledge of human na tut e, his foresight, and his wisdom—( Laughter and cheets)— on the accuracy of the prophecy—that the cause of Don Ca..-los will succeed, and that the 100,000 men who are now in arms, as he tells us, will speedily replace Don Carlos—not replaeo him by the by, for he never yet occupied the seat-,but will speedily place Don Carlos on the throne of Spain.—( A laugh.) With regard to France, he says--You weak and blind Ministers of England, indulge not in idle fancies of friendship cemented between England and France. The friendship which at present exists, so far from being, as we hope , lastin g and firm, is destined , he tells, from the very nature of things—from the deep-rooted feeling of animosit; which exists between the two countries, speedily to give way to sonic dark and monstrous intrigue, which he paid me the com pliment to suppose I understood, but which, I confess, understood not at the time lie was speaking, nor have beett able to comprehend since.—(Laughter and cheers.) With regard to his opinions on the subject of the French alliance, I am content to leave them to the rebuke which they have re ceived from the admirable speech of the Noble Lord (Lord F. Egerton) who sits next him—( Hear, hear)—and I must say it was refreshino• * to me to hear the sentiments which that Noble Lord expressed, in contrast with those which had fallen front the Hon. Member for Sandwich.—( Cheers.) And this is undoubtedly a remarkable circumstance; that amongst the Hon. Gentlemen who sit on the opposite side off the House, that although generally united, to oppose the Government, a great diversity of opinion prevails amongst many of them upon almost every question of foreign policy.—( Hear, hear.) There is amongst them on domestic affairs almost every shade of opinion, from those who profess to be for every description of reform, to those who say they will make no alteration at all. There is amongst them, upon foreign affairs, almost every shade of opinion, from those who, like the Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir R. Peel) last night, and my Noble Friend this evening, say they wish for an alliance with France—that they think the alliance between the two nations consistent with the ho nour, and advantageous to the interests of .England, and, founded upon enlightened principles, likely to perpetuate the peace of Europe—(hear, hear) —there is amongst them every gradation of opinion, from those of these enlightened men, down to those of the H ono urable Member for Sandwich —(laughter)—who seems to look with aversion even at the slightest contact with our neighbour—who rejoices and de lights in our former wars and battles, and who tells us, with an air of prophetic truth, that there are recollections which will ever prevent an union between the two countries.— ( Laughter.) Events will prove whether he is right, and w hether we are wrong. But at least we have the satisfaction of thiuk ing that in anticipating the growing connection between the two countries, and feeling a conviction that that connec tion is founded upon the best principles of hute an nature, the c most enlightened principles of public policy —at 14...a5t we have the satisfaction of thinking, that in indulging in thatanii anticipa tion, we have enjoyed a pleasure which I ams ure it is wipos sible for the Hon. Member for Sand wich to feel when he anticipates the disastrous separation between the two countries, which is to be the result of the unknown and monstrous in trigue which he has so darkly shadowed out.—(Cheers.) Now a few words with regard to the Spanish prophecy. The Hon. Member gave us to understand that ho had in his pocket an accurate return of the strength of Don Carlos's army. It would of course be idle and ridiculous for me to dispute the accuracy of that return. My Means of information are not the same.as those enjoyed by the Hon. Member.—( Laughter. ) Don Carlos may have 100,000 men in arms. The Hou. Member tells us 'that he has : therefore it is true, no doubt. It may be true that the great mass of the people of Spain are in favour of Don Carlos. The Hon. Member tells us that they are ; therefore they are, no doubt.—( Hear ' hear.) All I can say is, that if th e f act b e so— if D on Carlos has a great majority of the people with him, and if he has 100,000 men in arms, it is the strangest thing in the world that ho should be still shut up in the mountains of Biscay.—( Cheers and laughter.) How, with the 100,000 men in arms, the whole population of the country in his favour, and the . :4,000,000/. of money which we hear has very lately been