The Sun. — London, England, 1810-12-28 00:00:00

• . ertaming to the ratik•and •property of the Country. i ;ir felopiion would, in my establiabed conviction, - tied the best security for the welfaieend ptdsperity ,101 , -Counqy, and afford the most effectual p.o eetion to the tights and . interests Of all.. Under hese impressions, and upon the grounds upon which have trespassed on the Committee . at such 'length, feel myself perfeCtly warrantedos• well as .actuated ?), every consideration at duty .rt. my Sovereign and he. coot:row, to callupen.your . Lordships i .by - Tarr' z;ote, to give thesse resolutions the great sat - 164m and iirthoiety of the Paritiment of the thited'E.ingdona Great 'Britain and Ireland:" I, Earl .STasitoie rose, to. propose an arneNenent . .to the second. ReSohation. He should notiierte•tor rthai,Resolution - on the grounds stated by the Noble , iStieretary Of State (Lord Liverpool). That Noble cornplaned that he had interrupted hiM. !t was riot his intention to interrupt the Noble Earl in ?tire course of his spekh, but. merely to remind him lat the moment that - the doefrifies Ie was laying down 1 were contrary to A6ls of Parliament.. He should • have been 'sorry to have interrupted the Noble Se ► cretary hi 'the course be was pursuing for other wise; the House would not have had the pleasure Of. t, tearing the strange assertions, the extraordinary positions which the Notate Secretary had thought proper - to bring forward. Great stress had been laid' I by: the . Noble Secretary on the virtue, of. the Great Seal, eed he'seemed Much to rely on the autlio- I rite ,of jerues:ll.. Their Lordships would secol lect, that the Great Seal had been carried away by t his very James LI. and hence they might be warned • of the. vigilatiCe with which it was necessary to 7 ' guard it. If iheir Lordships would allow him, he would puta.caser—Suppose a thiet . to take away the Great Seal; suppose the Noble Secretary him self sto. take it away (he begged pardon for the sup position), and to affix . it -to an instrument creating hint Duke Flushing; suppose him also tooth% it to, an act for granting to himself a pensipn to any amount he shout e think proper, might lie not like wise put. ir to a Bill , of Indemnity to screen him from the consequences of what he had been just betore doing ? Ott these points the Noble Earl seemed to be very learned indeed, but riot quite su learned as, rie legal friend James 11. The Act of Parliament to`which he wished the Noble Secretary to look, wa s . no less an ac t than that for regulating the succession to . the Crown. Let the Noble Secre tary refer to the provi.ions of that Act, and then he would .ask him, whether lie would bow tq the au thority of his friend James 11. in preference to the authority of this- Act of Parliament ? What autho rity could the Great Seal carry with it, when used •in the manner which is *now intende.l to be pro posed ? cpuld it have any authority' longer than until-the Suceessor to the Crown should give orders to the contrary cases of illness of the Sove reign, knew of no Act ofParliametit which gave that pouer.. It was not in. the power of subjects to give it ; and• therefole he considered the Resole— Aloe, in its present state, to be incomplete. The Noblelarl 'here read the Resolution, and proposed to atoeud it by substituting after the word " re quire," th s following words: " and until the Lords Spiritual aed T.mpural, and Commons, shall hays before them sufficient and saisfaciroy proof of the fact, that lii• !Majesty is so far recovered as to:be perfectly able to dlscharge all the s functions of the regd. auttierity." What objection could there be to this ? It had alrea•!y been decided, that .the two Houses were competent to -3urply the detect in time ex rcise of the royal functions; 'that the. power resided in the two Houses, atid ht) where die. That' the Privy Council had no such power. • The only authority, therefore, to resort to, and to be guided by, was the au thority P iament. He might also put the case e of opinion among the Physicians— two of them night' that the King was not so weli - as to be able to di,charge the functions of the Sovereige, and others of them, even four, might ex ress a di ff erent opinion--.-they might even come to be u nanimous on this point—and then lie might be thought 16 ,involve no difficulty. This reminded him Oa story told by Judgeßuller of a conversation with a country Squire and Judge Burnett. Time Squire thought ehere could be no difficulty in dis charging the office of Judges, for they had only to decide hetween black and white. Most certainly there would be no difficulty in their _task, - observed Judge Burnett, if all they had to do was to distin guish between black and white; but that was nut the case—all the. difficulty lay in judging of the greys. Such would be the embarrassment of their Lurdsiiips in the present case. The great difficulty was, to fix, the precise thing which the two Houses ought. to do, and that they could not decide upon but by adopting the amendment he had just pro- posed. The questi , ,n was then put upon Lord' STAN.. itches amendment, when it was rejected without a did i on. 'Lund HOLLAND then rose to move the previous qu $llOll. It was not his intention now to answer all the obs.rva'iovs and arguments that. had been used by the Noble Secretary of State ; neither 'would he enter iat o a discission of where the right lay in chus log a R,-gent .under the present circuulstances. A. (inference of opinion on that head was . already re corded on 'the Journals, and he would not revive the riuestion of whether the right was vested in the Heir Apparent or otherwise. Some contended the right was in the two Houses ; others that it was in the Heir Apparent: others again that it was in the People t He would not attempt to reconcile ail these jai ring opinious, though they might be all reconciled into onecorcfasion, that the sole right was vested in the Prince. But to avoid all discus ion of that ques tion he should-move the .previous question. It that was agreed to, he should then move another resolu tion, fur taltilig such measures to supply the , defed in the perional exercise of the royal functions as the ititerests of the realm • might require, and which should be conforMable to the principles of the he reditary mutiatchy and the law of succes , ion to the Crown., His. Lordship concluded with _moving, " That tie Hose .do resume, and that the ques tion on the tesolntiop; be now put." This •motion was rejected without a. divi sion. „ . The second Resolution WAS then put and carried tvithout any 191ther . „ On the quest . ion-being put• to agree to the third Resolution, , • Lord HOLLAND again sose to propose an' atitend- Meat to that 'Resolution, and in 'whit hehad to ofkis tin thiS point, he stoeld etideave it to keep As dose as possible to the question. In some of the ebsee; rations of the Nuble Secretary he was disposed to acquiesce, but not in all. The Nob'e Earl endea- -1 voured to distinguish between the political capacity of the Sovereign, and his ability for the personal ee ercise-of; the- royal funetions. To .a certain degree perhaps the distinction might be just ; he was not, however, prepared to say that it was, or ehAt it was not. If ee rightly understood it,- it would • in. fer that there was a power somewhere to exercise that right; and that ii could not be delegated to allo t her. He did not imagine that in tt.e ss hole of our hiseely ttiere could be found a single instance of it. Couta any, man Asti* to'exerciSe the prerogatives oftttie Crown in favour of the people, for whoseein terests they were originally conferred ? Such a right might, perhaps, be assumed by Parliament. Yes ; but it must be by a fell Parliament-ea Parliament consisting of the three co-ordinate branches of the ConstitUtion, the COmmons, Lords, and King ; by some person properly authorised by such a Perna-- went se) to act. The Noble Lord seetr ed to insinuate, that such was the power of Parliament, in such ,cases as the preSent e that they might chuso a Regent not_ the next of blood; that they might confer the Regen cy on the lowest individual. In this he might agree ;- but that would net be au act of Parliament. If the Noble Earl looks to such acts of Parliament, then he loses sight - of the question altogether.— Such a mode of proceeding would, its no sense, be analogous to the Constitution of the country : and,. however be might .disapprose of wresting that right .from the Prince of Walsi, he would contend that there waren° instance of it, when there was full compereuce to exercise these functions. But it is said, every Regent should be put under' restric tions. This did not hold pectin thopresent in siance Even a full Parliament, under circum stances like the present, should not impose ai.y li mitations or restrictions on the Rsgetit ; no, not even temporary restrictions: It would be im posing restrictions, not for' the security of the the people, but also as an insult to the per son in whom the power of the .Regent .was to be vested. He felt that he: stood up in that Hose for the people of England, and not for ebe Royal Branches; but,. at the same lime, he would contend that none but a , tell Parlia ment could letter the Regency . with limitations and restrictions. There might be restrictions imposed on Councils of Regency, but these re strictions did nut affect the right. So far fOr the principles laid ,down by the Noble Eel'. He should new more particularly examine the third re. lution : it says, that it is the right of the two Houses to supply the defeel in the personal exercise of the royal functions ; that is to say, no doubt, that they have that powC.r, but thst they cannot exercise it without .the assistance of the Gieat Seal. This is a most curious- sort of logic—certainly a mode of reasoning not regulated in the usual forms of syl logism.', What is it but 'to say, ,I have two legs, and I am fully able to walk, therefore I must have a crutch. If the two -Houses have the poWer of , providing for the deficiency in the present instance, why not exercise it ? why have recourse- to some parson or thing in order to pass a Bill enabling them so to get ? When that person or thing is so brought forward and employed, the mode of giv- L ing the Royal Assent is made imperative in him, but would that not be in the nature or forth of a Royal Assent ? To get rid of those difficulties, it was his intentioneo move that the Prince of Wales be requested to lake upon himself the Regency during the illness of his Royal Father, in behalf and in the name of tee King, and then propose to the 1 Prince that he abstain tram all powers not necessary ,under all the circumstances of the moment. . This. weuld be the proper manner of. proposing what ,! lie i litatious or testridioes should be imposed on the power of the Regent. But the question of restric ! . lions did not now properly come under discussion— the question how merely was, whether the House should proceed by way of Bill or by the mode of Address, and which of the two modes was most con senant to the theory and the practice of the Con stitution, which ,was the more ,totivenient, indeed necessary, under the circurn tan :es of the' present ca , e. , Of all modes ,of proceeding, the mode by Bill was, ie his opinion, the most unconstitutional; and he agreed with. his Noble Friend (Lord Stan hope), that all the principles and precedents referred to by the Noble Secretary of State were wholly in applicable, or directly adverse to the mode of pro ceeding by Bill. And first, in a constitutional point of view, he would ,ask, what is the Royal Assent ? Or what is an At of Parliament ? Ur how do we make a law ? Nothing may appear more easy or plain ; :Jed the question reminded him of an ingenious ' pamphlet, . entitled Anticipation, • in which it is proposed to examine the British_ Constitution. , It ' is stated. to be a threefold Constitution, . consisting of King, 'ends, and Commons. In that publication it is made matter of ridicule seriously to examine a thing so obvious and plain. But what was there considered as so ri diculous, the Noble Lords opposite hue now stand up seriously to defend. An - An of Parliament is a ' tripartite indenture. lf that be so, then they must now tiud some 'pinion to at for the person absent, or he will be disabled from acting: But no ; that will not be the case, for they- will take upon them to at as his attorney. By the 33d of Henry VIII., and Ist of Mary, it is made the law of this realm, that the Royal Assent shall' be given to Bills by the Sovereign in . person, or by a, ecnamission signed by his own hand. It ha's ever hetn provided, that if any person assert that the Houses of Parliament may make a laW, the person so asserting should be liabie to the penalties of a ersernuniee. How- do these, apply to the m e asure now propose ?—But it will be • said that the mode which he proposed was liable to ob jections ; he confessed it was, but still these were not such weighty objetlions. Uis plan was at least more expeditious and more candid. It did not carry with it the marks of art, cunning and contrivance, All principles and precedents were in favour of it, and altogether hostile to the other mode proposed. Int: Noble Lord then 'proceeded to examine the prece dents down from the year 1641, - to the Revolution and Restoration: All tended to prove, the most convenient and expeditious mode of proceeding was by Address. But their,-Lordships are told that the Throne, was then vacant. Yes but the Address was .carried up, before' the Houses had declared the Throne vacant: Surely the NobleSecretarjemust a I Lave __trusted_ to Want et industry an cl**igence iu that part of the House, when he attempted to i ni L . po-se such do&rines on them as he has this night at tempted to es'abltsh. Such 'was not the ,conduct, nor the wisdom of our ancestors, their mode of pro ; - ceedingwas candid, open, speedy,-and explicit. There was nothing in it ungracious dr disgusting, as in the (node that would now be adopted. This was his way - of considering the question without the influence of any bias, or partiality for any recent transactions-- he would at least rest his opinion upon an incnm= plete transaction, like that of 1788—a transaction and precedent which rested merely on the authority of those who acted in it, and which had neither the sanction of wisdom or experience to countenance and cor'firm it-. The Noble Lord next referred to the proceedings of the Irish Houses of Parliament in 1788. They had approved of the proceeding by Addreas, and their conduct would not be thought wrong, merely because it was' disapproved by the Lord Lieutenant for the time. Arid here he could not observing,: and the people of Ireland will, perhaps,Aserve it with disgust, that no little,atten tion or resped was paid' to them on thepresent oc casion ; that not even one of their Representatives was-appointed on the•Comalittee for examining the' Physicians, a mark of disrespect which he should not . be surprised to _see them come and complain of at their Lordships' Bar. If he looked to the present state of the country, which was so alarming in every point of slew, he must consider the delay that has occurred as most blamable ; it Has double the time that had been so ernployed at the Rev-lution. In the mean time the Noble Secretary, and his ctileague. have iu the eye of (yen day usurped the Monarchy of Great Biitain, anti the re gal power iS kept out of the hands of him who should iti every respect be looked up to, and called upon to .exelciseit,' amnia° whose hands it is the universal wish and opin ion o f t h e countr y that it ought to de volve. How, did'our relations staud with respect to America ? 1-101,v were we situated with respeei. to Spanish America ?—Did we advise an amicable me diation between the Mother Country and . the Spa nish colonies ? He thought he coold perceive that the Noble Lord who presided , over that depa r t men t (Lord Wellesley) did not pretend to take upon him self the same power which his colleagues have Weer - - ed to assume. In justice to his Royal Highoess fire Prince of Wales, in justice 'to their Lordships' House, and to the people at large, the suspension of the Royal, Functions cannot be longer continued. Whether his. Majesty happily recover or not, some proceeding must be,adopted to provide in future for the melancholy occurrence under which the country now labours. Their Lordships owed it to their. country—they owed it to themselves—to institute a severe scrutiny into many transactions which have been stated upon oath to have passed since his Majesty was first al flided with the calamity under which he now labours. Has it not appeared that Commissions have been signed by his'Majesty, when, perhaps, from what has been stated by some,of the Physicians, he'was under the pressure of that complaint which gives such ascendancy to one mind over that of another ?' He was ready to confess it,- that it was a ,shame - to the Administratioa of which be hail p been an unwor thy Member, that they had taken no measures for providing for such an emergency as the present, and which cut short the country of all regal authority. The duty was a delicate one, no doubt ; burit was a , duty which must be performed. The Noble Lord then concluded my moving, that an Address be pre vented to his. Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, in time words and form which be had opened to their Lordshi t s in the body of his speech The Duke of NORFOLK seconded the Address, which heconceived the only constitutional moue by which the Parliament could make known their sen timents to his Royal Highness. With respect to the Great Seal, about which So much had been said by the Noble Earl, that was a piece of metal and wax, which, unless the Sovereign authority was in tor.ce, had no effect. The two branches of the Legislature now 'assembled were indubitably compelled to vote themselves Keepers of that Seal, and it any ad of Legislative authority was 'necessary to be done,' the use of the Seal must bean them. In point of fact, the two Houses of Parlianierat were like the aepublic of Genoa, absolute for the time beyond all dispute; they were to be regarded as King, Lords, and Com 'mons. The Noble Duke observed, that in looking back to the precedent of 1688, he could not but see that the Parliament were placed in a similar situation with the then Parliament, for at that time it could not be well then foreseen that the country would have to complain of a tyrant King, who fortunately, by his abdication, had prevented much inconvenience.— 'The Parliament, as now, the Throne being, as he must contend, vacant, proceeded to Address the Prince of Orange, the next in succession. AC that day, however, the Crown, by the Constitution, de volved on the infant Prince, but they did not go so far. Itradopting the Address of his Noble Friend, they would pursue that course in the present gency which would be most safely pursued for the benefit of the State. His Royal Highness the Duke of SUSSEX, in rising to concur with the Noble Mover of the Address, wished to caution the House against the unneces sary delay and suspense which perhaps might ulti mately arise in ,the progress of the pi oposou Bill for providing for the exercise of the Royal functions; that anxiety which he felt, was ego:riled by no thing more than by the sorrow which he, in com mon with The rest of his Majesty's subjeas, expe rienced for the calamity which had caused the sus pension of the funalions of the Sovereign. •Six weekshad now passed since the functions of Royal= ty were, as the Ministers had informed the House, suspended ; and since, a Committee of persons*, not authorised by both branches of the Legislature, had assumed those functions. His Royal Highness declared that he was most jealous and anxious that, as tar as in his power lay, his Majesty's late Mini• Biers should not 'continue to exercise those functions which they had so unjustly usurped. He was de cidedly:of opinion, founded on the clearest convic tion, that their conduct' was highly reprehensible.— it would be found, upon referring to the Minutes of the Secret Committee, that he had cogent reasons for wishing delay, and he now thought it his most sacred duty to call the attention of i the House to those Minutes. By the evidence of the Physi- 1 cians, it was apparent that the malady with which his Majesty was afflifted was established beyond doubt, and it grieved him to state thus much ; but there came out this additional and important fact, that lime had not keen any - personal conimunication be tween his Majesty and bit Ministers curing that period. It' likewise appea , syd, that wit any of the branches of the Royal Family had approached his Majesty.: Would the House then suppose that his Mak-sty had any will of his own ? Would she House endure to ba told that the • kingly office was entire, because Ministers had been bold enough :to take upon themselves the adaiinistration Df that office t What satisfaction coirld they have that what the Noble Earl - had state 3. was the faol? How could they be sure that, under such circutnstancer, - his Majesty ;would have approved of what They have done ? His Royal Highness could, not consent agree to slid] speculative conalusions;''founded upon such rotten fabrics. In the estimaaon which he foal formed of the situation of Ministers, th, y were, ac= cording to the Constitution of the Country, the con fidential servants of his Majest , to take from him his 'commands, and fo act'unaer them for t , e welfare of the country, for the due observance of w e:cli they were undoubtedly ahswsrable to Parii errant. With this view of their situation , of respansioility; he dared them to assert that his Majesty would have advised these trea sures which they have pursued, It was in.evidefice that they had net approa:hed him for the last eig'!t weeks, and none of Fundy had beer, lowed 'to conic ricer his Royal Persoel— [fle,e his Royal Highness was very 'illicit affected Runil Highna:ss claimed pardon of ths.r Lard° .i;,, fw. ttle expressions of agitation which he harts vneed, in alluding to the delicate siturtion , in which ibe Royal Family Were pl.tced. He contended, that if it was Fovea the late. Ministers had exercised a power which they had no right to, they were culpable; bat even had they been frightened, hesitated, or stuns bled,, they would have been equally :treasonable for allowing the Magistracy to be inactive. A blow more serious had not been struck since the Revolution.; The Sovereign, bribe Coostitutioh, was a sole cora poration—he never dies- , -heenjOyed as it were a..eoli • neat immortality. In allowing the authority to slotie. - ber,they had committed a regicide ad against tlieChief Magistracy.' The country had been amused And dis appointed by theth, with fallacious reports of the state of his Majesty's health. In expressiens of at fection is for his family, his Royal Highness equally particieate;i his relatives, and he aas K eisti,d that nothing would to confirm that union,w hich..Was so desirable, than the adoption of the Address. • fie could not separate the idea of the welfare of his So- • vereigh and his country; vi hat affeeted the one must . .. of neccessity concern the other. It the Constitution was in dauger, the danger alike appertained to' his r I Royal Highness's Father and Sovereign. •HestOod up in defence of the' Monarch teal - Government, and to 11 this House he looked with the utmost confidence tor ya aupport, lithe House would support the CollSitUtio4 against the encroachment of Micasters,i they mus t do so by upholding the rights of the Crown; which would a '4l thereby preserve the dearest interests of the people. • k Mioist.ers, however, had made a shield for them selves of the Sovereign Authority, instead Of them selves ,shieldieg their Royal Master. They had, in • fact, endeavoured to raise their - own power on the ' ruins of their Royal Master. In what situation was the country placed in the present crisis.-- " It the House proceeded by Bill 'to provide for -,1 the exercise of the Royal Functions, the St rtes would assume to themselves all the right of legisla tion. If the., States therefore could select a, per son, it would be 'difficult to oppose the - Orator& . of such person to fill tire vacancy.' The CullStittl• Lion forbade such usurpation, and the w*o Houses, • being equally bound to keep faith with the others would not find much difficulty in the . election; which, by the hereditary• sucees'.sion, was vest ed in the Heir Apparent. With respect to trio restrictions endeavoured, or at least, subwiti sd,. for impositions, 'hose must not, could not, be tolerated.—The Regent must be invested with : lull powers in order that the Government should efficient.--He must not be a mockery of regal slate and power, but an efficient *magistrate with tleaaf powers usually given to the King. , His Royal H.gh ness, in support of 116 proposition, referred to au- - thoritiet, in which. provision Was Made in this re sped. 'For thespace of 18 years it had been hts foe to reside on the Continent, where .he had saaashed the progress of revolution, which, with rapid strdes,. had been hastening the downfall ,of Empires, and Of States, to the almost entire subjugation of modern Europe. In that progress, he had invariably found' ' that the first step to revolution was the bringing into contempt the Magistracy of the Realm, by injuring the reputation of the Sovereign in the minds of the people, Against this sort Of 'danger he warned the. House. Tile people- possessed 'an excellent Constie tution, which was originally erected on the basis Of a glorious, Revolution, which time and perfedio o had. rendered most beautiful ; if any encroachment was therefore suffered on any one of the 3 branches, of that Constitution, the total destruction of that - grand specimen of the wisdom'of man would be the consequence. With this feeling, ie should conclude with praying the attention of their Lordships to most itnportant circumstance, t-speding the state el the country. The vital principles of the Constitutiod were gone, 'if the Magistracy were brought into dia'` repute; and he could not do better than quote the; words of a Noble and Learned Lord, who once filled . the "Woolsack, who, in speaking of the Sovereign" said, " if I forget , my Sovereign, may God forget me." In those words he roost cord ally agreed,.and he could add these :—" May God forget use if forget my Constitution." It was only, he observed' by unanimity that we ShOtild pie,erve that respel l , which, amidst the conflicting state of Empires, nao - contributed to secure this country. The Britiib Constitution, winch his Family had been the meat). of protecting, would thereby flourish, and remain monument, and stand aloft in the wreck of the sub' jugated world. • Lord MULGRAVE contended, the only exception'to 'the exercise of the Royal Authority was cev tautly that to which t! Noble Baron alluded io 1688; but the contrast was sulking between al two cases. In 1688, the 'exexise of the RoYs Function was completely at an end. In the prese t case there was, no vacancy. In the former, 1 1111 Monarch had violated every duty, and btoken cveri f engagement; therefore to make an application 0 . the two cases was there was tow is fa ct no interruption to the Royal Authority. In 16 0 the Parliament was not to existence. The State . WO reduced to a state of nature; the only authoriti was that of this House of Parliament ; the ~thof House, which derived its existence from ilte beinglturn circurwtancel, st an rod. The Prot; of a fer 11 WhIC - Even the si T l4vvyi 4ume men t and d c lettet via /adopt Whai ion ? that I twit first lex' Tilt)? brily - King lion E ingiy arioo) pared true bigot woul fon.ll The bo Si UsC sucu of B genc. Lug; of (4 Lavit next the then deela the Prott procc y& t sent, it pu sion it b 4 the! Was At co and 1 1).1i V. it. t weal iutt rot. be 1, galiy say 1 as [0 lion ficiei that the put of hei refut men trick coui irg selvt dere of t clut:t Ttmil that Prof livat 1-i to t, feel you: cask grow i ; hit p. esi ' e . del_i i lei 101 piet. I -