The Sun. — London, England, 1864-04-08 00:00:00

, 0.1 oftle , not owing to smuggling. I think the evidence on that subject is clear. It is quite true that in Ireland at this moment there is an increase of smuggling as compared with the three preceding years ; but it is not tine that there is an increase in smuggling as compared with what it was when the duty was Bs. I will venture to give a proof of that. We have means of judging wbcther distress has operated in this matter or not, bets Du. the circum stances of the three countries, as connected with consuming power, have materially differed during the last four years. Ireland has unhappily been afflicted with a succession of bad harvests. Better in 1863, not perhaps as regards the seller, but as regards the consumer ; but the three preceding harvests were of an exceedingly lamentably defective cha racter. England has suffered in the great focus of consump tion of this kind, viz., in Lancashire, in a peculiar degree. Scotland, having a very small cotton trade and having its industry generally in a flourishing condition, may be said to have hardly suffered at all. Now it is curious that the spirit revenue of the three countries has varied in the precise pro portion of their distress. In England the revenue has been stationary since 18.59-60. It was £4,341,000 then. In 1863-4 it was L 4,390,000, showing an increase of £49,000, or about 1 per cent. on the revenue. In Ireland, where the pressure of distress is greatest, in 1859-60 the revenue was £2,655,000. In 1863-61 it sunk to £2,322,000—a decrease of about 14 per cent, on the whole, which is amply accounted for not only by the gradual change of taste which operates in all the three countries, but also by the special distress under which Ireland laboured. In Scotland, where the pressure of the distress has been much less felt, the Scotch revenue from spirits has increased in a manner not at all unsatisfac tory, considering the changes which have been made in it. In 1859-60, even although unduly swelled by premature de liveries, it was £2,973,000, and in 1863, £3,332,000—(hear) —showing an increase of upwards of £300,000. This may be considered a very satisfactory result. The truth is, a very great change of taste is going forward. It is not to be indicated by one circumstance or another, but by the com parison in aggregate effects of a multitude of observations. There is a steady process, a very happy process, in operation —the translation of taste for stronger and more ardent spirits to milder and more wholesome liquors ; and we cannot un derstand what is going on with regard to the spirit duty, unless we keep that essentially in view. lam glad, how ever, to say that, as far as regards distillers, though they have had a considerable diminution of home demands, an export trade is rapidly creating itself. Some 20 years ago he quantity exported was very trifling. In 1859 it had risen .o 1,941,000 gallons ; while in 1863 it had risen to 4,071,000 and I eegeee. will include in my statement of exports of ' British, the exports of foreign and colonial produce, of which this country is becoming more and more the centre. In the year 1861 our impo rts were estimated at £217,485,024. In 1862 they were estimated at £225,716,976 ; and in 1863, the year when we were almost wholly deprived of the largest and most valuab le of all oar imports—namely, the cetton o f America —the imports were estimated at £248,980,942. Our exports of British produce stood for the first of those three years at 114102,514 ; for the second of three years at £122,992,264 ; and for 1863 they stood at £146,489,768. Oar experts of foreign and colonial produce for the first year were £34,529,684; for the second year £42,175,870; and for the third year £19,485,005. The total exports of the country were, in 1861, £159,632,498; in 1862, £166,168,134; and in 1863, £195,974,7 73. The total movement of the foreign trade of the country is this : Imports and exports, taken together, amounted in 1861 to £377,117,522; in 1862, £391,585,110; and in 1363, £144,9:55,715. That astonishing sum I will only illustrate by these two statements. In the first place, it may be taken to be about three times the trade of this country as it stood at a period comparatively recent, viz., in the year 1842, when Parliament first began deliberately and advisedly to set itself to work with a view to reform our commercial legislation. (Cheers.) In the second place, that sum may be taken to represent as nearly as possible £1,500,000 for every day in the year—a magnitude of operations connected with industry so vast that, if it did n ot stand on. i ncon trovertible figures, it would ha rdl y receive belief. But not only aro these figures remarkable when we consider them as showing the progress of the energies of Englishmen, and the strength of that country which is dear to all our hearts, but they mean much more than this. They mean that England is becoming more and more deeply pledged from year to year to be the chem. pion of peace and justice throughout the world—to take part, with no view to narrow and selfish interests, but to act with the broad object of tho welfare of humanity at large, in every question which arises, in whatever part of the globe. (Cheers.) I referred a moment ago to the year 1842, and stated that it was since 1842, since the commencement of the great work of Parliament with regard to commercial legislation, that these changes had taken place. Ido not overlook for a moment the effect of other elements that have been at work—elements of immense power and immense ad • vantage. There are some who think the same effects would have been produced, even if your commercial legislation had remained as it was. (Hear, hear, from an Hon. Member — laughter.) I hear a solitary " hear, hear." It is a matter of great national and public interest that we should satisfy ourselves in some degree by approximate evidence of the truth of this statement. Ido not deny that other countries have made great progress in trade and industry. I do not undervalue the effect of the powers of locomotion which have been set in operation amongst us, There are many other causes which have co-operated to produce this extra ordinary development of modern industry ; but this I have observed, and it will at any rate go for what it is worth, that during the several years in which Parliament has with an unsparing hand addressed itself to the business of libe rating commerce, these operations have been immediately followed by striking augmentations of the trade and indus try of the country. Whatever is due to locomotion, to tele graphs, the progress of machinery, the change has been equal from year to year. Allowance must always be made for good harvests and bad harvests, but still if I find this meet ing me in examination of the case that the legislation of Parliament has immediately been followed by striking and great results, it shows me that we have not been feeding ourselves on empty dreams when we believed that in giving freedom to the commerce and capital of England we were adopting the true means of extending our pro sperity. I will only take the three last years in which changes of that kind have taken place. In 1853 important changes of that description were made. The exports of Bri tish produce in 1852 had been £78,066,000. The year 1852 was a year of great prosperity, an excellent harvest, and of the cheapest capital ever known is this country. 1853 was a year of bad harvest, but a year of legislation on behalf of freedom of trade; and while in 185'2 the exports were £78,000,000, those of 18:53 ware £98,938,000. The yearlBso was one of the worst harvests known during the last half century; and in that year the exports showed an increase of £161,000 on the preceding year. In 1863 it was in the power of Parliament to grant extensive measures of com mercial relief. In the previous year, 1862, the exports were £166,168,000 ; but in 1863 they rose to L 19,5,974,000. Ido not think it is possible to lay down any precise rule or de gree ; but I do say these figures represent a connection be tween the years of legislation and the great increase of the trade of the country. I will now refer to the fiscal and com mercial legislation during the same years to show that we have not been indifferent to the complaints of those who think they have been hardly dealt with. And, first of all, let me refer to the completely settled—l mean settled so tar .as legislation is concerned—question of the paper duty. 'Though the accounts which I shall present are fragmentary and partial, they are indisputable, so far as they go. There has been an increase of imports to the following extent : Is 1859 it was 13,000 cwt, and in 1861, 101,00:e cwt, which -eras an enormous increase. When we cone;der the import of she materials or paper, we find thst in 1859 we imported 173,000 cwt, and in 1871, 725,00 Q cwt. There is a positive increase in the amount of B' et;sh paper goods exported. In 1859 it reached 115,0 QC) cwt, and in 1564, 193,000 cwt. This is the quantity as nearly as can be estimated, but of the quality I cannot speak. Then comes the question of vhe price, and this has been greatly reduced. We will take -printing papers; and in 1359 the price was 61e1 to 811 per 1b; 1364 it was tia to 61a—(hear, hear)—eo that the re duction has beers from 7to 9 farthings per pound. There le another very curious fact connected with the paper trade, nhough I am very far from represent*ne that the paper trade ds as prosperous es one could desire to see. (Hear, hear.) It is remarkable that the diminution in the number of paper manufactories which was taking place before the repeal of the duties has ceased. In 1533 the number of paps r menu /'dories was 526, of whom it is necessary to deduct a small per contage for the card-board trade. In 1843 there were 417; in 1838, 386 ; in 1859, 38.5; and in 1351, when the duty was repealed, the number had sunk to 361. In 1863 it was 360, though these had been labouring under considerable disadvantages ; for the paper trade was in no small degree dependent upon the cotton trade. And you must recollect, with respect to the value of cotton goods exported, the cot ton had vastly increased in price; therefore the total value of the exports, as compared with other years, may tend to diminish the appearance of loss. INt this high-priced class 'of cotton goods required no more paper to pack them than did the cotton which was formerly sold at a cheap rate. Ihe papermakers have also suffered with respect to rags. I must ask the house to remember that the cotton trade grew up :under protection. Protection immersed the energies of the :manufacturers, and they were contented with imperfect and wasteful methods of manufacture. But protection was with drawn, and it was said that it would cause considerable suf fering to throw the manufacturers upon the resources of ;their invention and skill. The restorative process com menced, and, after a short interval, every on e of the branches ,of this trade found itself more healthy, more vigorous, and more profitable. (Applause.) I will quote a single instance in the paper trade in support of what I have said. The facts are supplied to me by a gentleman in the trade, who is a partner in a mill which was set up since the repeal of the duties, I am not authorised to Ursa this gentleman's name, but if his facts should be doubted he is willing to communicate the particulars. For the four months ending Oct. 31, 1863, he made paper at £57 per ton, but it did not pay. He and his partner set themselves to work for the purpose of seeing what could be done by the :improvements of the process and by chemical agency. In Oct., 1863, as I have said, he produced paper at £57, and in December ho had his partner had reduced the price to 117 per ton. (Hear, hear.) At the present moment they are manufacturing it at £37 per ton—(applause]—and the arti cle ie a better one than that which cost £57 per ton. I think it would be ill advice to them if they were told not to de pend upon their own energies. It is certainly monstrous to say to any branch of British industry that we shall ex• pose them to the effects of foreign competition unless we likewise say " You shall have all your wants at home sup plied on the best possible terme." (Hear ; hear.) We very much lament that foreign Governments should maintain restrictions of any kind on the imports of raw material, It is with great satisfaction that I am authorised to say that we hope and believe that a concession will be made by the Government of France in the export duty on rags. (Hear.) I neat come to the question of 21)i:it duties, the importance of which will bo remembered when I say that, not from strong liquors taken in the whole, but from the single arti cle Of what is called ardent spirits, we raise nearly one-fifth of the entir e revenue . In 1360 the duties were raised to the highest • point, viz., 103 the gallon, and it was said that, although there would be a considerable diminution in the i consumpi -dm, yet from the augmentation of duty there mull be en increase of revenue. The duty was not so great as was expected, but the question arises whether that w ee due to smuggling, to distress, or to the operation of the duty. With respect to the duties of the year 1859-60 the reven ue d ep a rtment explains that there was a large sum received in consequence of what may be called the premature delivery of spirits from bond under the expec t a tion that the deities would b e i ncrease d in February, 1860. The effect was that £320,000 duty was received, and went to the estimate of the year 1859.60, which really be longed to 1860.61. The actual revenue f or 1859-60 mus t be estimated for as follows First we mu s t d e d uct f rom th e duty then receiv ed on Br iti sh spirits a sum o f £340,000; and, secondly, a sum of 225,000, in consequence of the great diminution that in the yearlBs9-63teas enacted by Parlia ment on the duty in foreign sp i r its, and particularly on French brandy. The corrected . total of the revenue for foreign, colonial, and British spirits in 1859-63 for the pur pose of comparison with the revenue of the pres en t year, would stand as follows : / 11,756,000 ; namely, on B r in e l l spirits, £9,458,000; on foreign, £2,298,000; mak i ng £11,755,000. In. 1863.61 it was .€12,163, 000 ; in 1861-2 it was £12,267,000; and in 1832-3, when the Lancashire dis tress had reached its utmost intensity, it fell to £12,102,000. In 1863-4, when the distress had been abated, it rose to £12,638,000. So that the real state of the question, con si tiered as a final question, is as follows : The revenue, 1859- 1869, properly belonging to it, may be taken as £11,756,000 ; in 1863-61, 112,638,000 ; showing an increase in the revenue from spirits of £882,003. This beteg a question of great interest, I have sought for means of throwing light upon it. Why is it that the revenue from spirits has not risen. Is it due to smuggling, to distress, or to a change of taste' It is gallons. lam informed that the Scotch, in addition to a tolerably supply which they have found for the people of Scotland, have secured to themselves a considerable portion of this export trade. With respect to wine the figures stand as follows : In 1859 wine imported from Portugal was 2,106,000 gallons; in 1861, 2,669,000 gallons, showing an increase of somewhat over 25 per cent. The wine imported from Spain is more in favour than the Portuguese wine ; for in 1859 it was 2,884,000 gallons, and in 1864 it had risen to 4,799,000 gallons, or about 70 per cent. The wine imported from France in 1859—the last tear before the change—was 597,000 gallons, and in 1864, 1,965,000 gallons—showing an increase of 330 per cent. As regards other foreign countries, which are generally represented by light wines, the amount in 18.59 was 577,000 gallons, and in 1864, 1,184,000 gallons, or over 100 per cent. The im port of colonial wine has largely decreased, distinctly proving that nothing but a duty perfectly artificial and extravagant in amount, and totally unreasonable in its grounds of endowment, in effect taken out of the pockets of the people of England, was really the basis of the trade in colonial wines. If the wine trade will grow nett], rally in the colonies, by all means let it do so ; but I believe, in those colonies whose climate was best suited to the growth of wine, the rate of labour is a good deal too high to allow anyone to hire a large number of persona to set about the manufacture. The growth of the consumption of wines in this country is most satisfactory. In 1858-59 it was 6,974,000 gallons ; and in 1863.64, 10,729,000 gallons, showing an increase of 54 per cent. The figures for 1863-61 are not precisely as regards units or hundreds of zallons, but for every substantial purpose they are correct. There is another subject I wish to mention to the committee, because it was a subject of legislation last year, and also is a subject of great fiscal and considerable commercial importance—l mean the subject of the tobacco duties. During the last year an act was passed for the purpose of reconstructing our system with regard to duties and rawbacks on manufactured tobacco, The objects of the act were to diminish smuggling and to increase trade and revenue. I think the committee will be of opinion that where those objects can be satisfactorily combined, the results are well worth having. As regards the increase of articles which were formerly smuggled, the case stands as follows—The descriptions of tobacco which were largely smuggled into the country wore cigars and cavendish. The cigars imported in the eleven months from April up to February, 1863, was 2,316,0001 b. The cigars imported in the corresponding period of eleven months in 1863-61 was 3,976,0001 b., showing a large it crease. With respect to cavendish, the manufacture of which in this country had been previously prohibited, but which was allowed by the Act of last year to be manufactured in bond, six manu factories of cavendish hove been established by way of a commencement of the trade. But this in crease of importation of the foreign article has not been attended with a diminution of the tobacco manufacture at home ; for, whereas it appears that in 1863 there was entered for consumption 35,700,0001 b of raw tobacco, in 1861, after the duty had been lowered an! the British manufacturer had been put through his usual paroxysm of apprehension and alarm—after the usual an nouncement had gone forth that many hundreds of thou sands cf workmen in the tob son trade were about to be dis missed, if they had not been actually put upon the streets — now what aro the facts of the case ? In the year preceding the change, the British manufactured tobacco entered for home consumption before this terrible and pernicious change was 36,569,000 lbs. ; and whereas in 1862-63, in the eleven months, we only exported 50,000 lbs., in 1863.64, for the same period, we exported 120,000 lbs. The reverse, I am happy to say, has been going on in a very satisfactory manner. About 1843 it was ad mitted that the smuggler had got the better of the re venue department ; but his triumph, if it was really a triumph, was only temporary. The smuggler has been kept within bounds, and, I trust, now is not only kept within bounds, but greatly limited and reduced. The ave rage annual growth of the income of this country from to bacco alone for the twenty-one years, beginning with 1842 and ending in 1862, has been £105,000 a year. Last year, when the change of duty was adopted, the revenue rose from £105,000 to £293,000. (Cheers.) The house may desire to know what is the condition of our trade with France. In the year 1859, immediately after the treaty of commerce, our imports from that country were £16,870,000. In the year 1861 they had risen to £24,024,000. Our exports to that country during the year 1859 were £9,561,000. In the year 1863 they had risen to £22,963,003. But I am very glad to say that the French manufacturers, like the English, are begin ning to find the futility of their alarms, just as the traders in this country found it in their own case mane times over ; and that at this moment the spinners of France, who were in a state of dire apprehension when the hon. member for Roch dale was executing his work, have become exporters of linen yarn, and have sent to Dundee cargoes of that commodity amounting to half a million sterling in value. (Hear.) With all this I remind the house that the pauperism of this country remains not only stationary—l exclude Lancashire as a matter of temporary operation—but may now be said to have been for a considerable number of years on the decrease. In 1848.49 the paupers of this country num bered 981,000 ; in 1853-61 they were 828,000, without including Lancashire. In 1848-49 there were 61 paupers in every thousand of the population, and now there are only 46 in a thousand. In other words, in the first of those years there were 239 in every thousand who were a working population, and now there ate 954 in every thousand who are a working and a self-supporting mutt lation. That is the gate of the case as regards the year 1863-4, through which we have just passed. New I come to the estimates for the year 1864-5. (Hear.) The charge for the funded and unfunded debt may be taken as £26,400,000. The increase which appears in this charge is owing to the operation of the measure to which I recently referred for converting perpetual into terminable annuities. The charges upon the Consolidated Fund other than that debt aro £1,930,000. The estimates for the army are £11,814,000. The estimates for the navy are £10,432,000, but they will probably be subjected to a certain amount— not a largo amount—of increase on account of a planwhich is under consideration for improving the position of various classes of cfficers in the navy. The estimates for the collec tion of the revenue are £4,692,0e0. The packet estimates are £833,000. The miscellaneous estimates may be taken for the present purpose at £7,628,000. It is probable that that will not ultimately be the precise figure, but I may observe that I have reserved a sum of £BO,OOO to cover any variation which may occur an the navy and miscellaneous estimates . The total estimated expenditure of the country will therefore stand for tho year 1864-5 at £66,890,000, That is lower than the estimated expenditure of 1863-.4 by £1,393,000, and lower than the actual expenditure of that year by £166,000, but it is higher than the estimated expen '9ture of 1858-59, which was the last year before we come to the years of very high expenditure, £2,226,000. Or if we correct the comparisonby debiting ourselves with the amount of the long annuities which we have saved, and likewise with the fortification expenditure, but deduct the sum of £1,125,000 on the other side, to which I have referred as now appearing on both sides of the account, and which did not appear in 1859.59, the increase since 1858-59 may be taken as £1,017,000. lam anxious to draw the atten• tion of the committee to that figure because I think it is a fair estimate of the actual present remaining growth of our expenditure since the time when we returned from the Russian war to a peace establishment. And now I come to ttxe estimates of the revenue fur the year. First, I take the revenue from the customs as £23,150,030 ; second, excise, £18,030,000; third, stamps, £9,320,000; fourth, taxes, £3,350,000; fifth, income tax, £3,600,000; sixth, Post office, £3,950,000; seventh, Crown Lands, £310,000. That is the whole of the revenue properly so called. Eigth, miscellaneous receipts, estimated at £2,250,000; ninth, indemnities, £600,000, of which £500,000 is from China and £lOO,OOO, in two sums, received from Japan. The total estimated income win e therefore, be £69,460,000, and the total estimated charges £66,899,000 ; and the pro bable surplus of income over expenditure will be £2,570,000. There are several minor subjects, which have no great bearing on the revenue, but which I may as well mention to the committee in the first instance, in order to put them out of the way of the more material ques . _ _ But now to refer to the plans which have been proposed re specting the sugar duties. I know the committee has a peculiar aversion to dealing with any question where three courses are open to us—(laughter)—but this is a question in which not three, but four, courses are before us. (Renewed laughter.) The plans are these. One is to have two rates of duty—one upon refined sugar, and the other upon unrefined. But refined and unrefined are not the only categories with which we have to deal ; because refined and unrefined are both of them solid sugars. There is also that which I may call liquid sugar, which comes under the class of melado or molasses ; and there are those who say let us have one duty for refined, and another duty for unre fined solid sugar, and a third duty for liquid sugar. An other plan is to have one rate of duty only for refined and unrefined, and another for liquid sugar. A third plan is to have one rate of duty for solid and liquid sugars ; and the fourth is the system of classification, based upon an appro ximation to the value of the article. Now, it appears to me that the advocates of a uniform duty have not a leg to stand upon, and therefore I utterly reject the proposals founded upon that view. In the same way I reject the dis tinction between solid and liquid sugars. In the contest between the importer and the revenue it would be impos sible to maintain any such principle of distinction. The question really is between uniform duties and classified duties. Ido not contend-that the present scale is a perfect one. Indeed, the select committee to which I have referred, pointed out that it operated inequitably in two respects. In the first place it is almost prohibitory as regards the lowest descriptions of sugar; and, in the second place, it operates severely upon the higher descriptions of unrefined sugar which come from the Mauritiusand the East Indies. I put aside all question of refining in bond, for that is not open to us as a practical question. Ths proposition which I lay down, and which I invite the committee to accept, is this, that the form of our duty should be that which should least interfere with the natural course of trade. I have no hesi tation in saying that I adopt the doctrine laid down by the Manchester Chamber of Commerce, and which has been accepted also by the Liverpool Chamber of Commerce I received the other day an address from Manchester on the subject of the sugar duties. The memorialists expressed their opinion that the duty should be in proportion to the amount of crystalisable sacccarine matter which the sugar contained. (Hear, hear.) Now, let me try it by example. And here I must use one of those outlandish barbarous words, " jaggery," which means the lowest class of sugar manufactured in the East Indies. Let us suppose 2 cwt. of this sugar in the market in the East Indies, and that these 2 cwt, contain 50 per cent., not of saccharine matter, because in saccharine matter it will not differ very much from much better sugars, but of what is called " orys tallieable eaecharine matter," as the Manchester Chamber of Commerce has very properl described it, which can pro fitably be extracted by the refiner, 2 cwt of that glass will yield 1 cwt for duty. Ido not refer to the minor results of refining, which would only complicate the case very much. I take only the first recess, that is, just as it comes from the cane and undergoes the first peones ; and the question is, how are we to adjust our law in such a way that we shall give no inducement to any man, by means of the duty, to refine in England rather than in India, or in India rather than in England ? That, I think, is a fair statement of the case. What will the Indian refiner do ? Let us suppose we have an uniform duty. That is the way, we are told, to do justice and avoid protection. Let us look at the operation. The Indian refiner buys the 2 cwt and refines them. He sends them to this country, arid if the duty in this country is 10s per cwt, he pays lOs for the introduction of his 100 lb of refined sugar. What has the British refiner to do ? He buys 2 cwt in India at the same rate as the Indian refiner; he sends it at a greater expense to England—brit that is his affair, not ours; we must not undertake to reimburse hit t for that—he brings it here to refine, and he pays 205 upon the 2 cwt : so that the English refiner pays a 20s duty to get his sugar into the market, while the Indian gets it in for 10s. And yet we are told that is the way to do justice and so avoid the stigma of protection. We have endeavoured to consider the question entirely without prejudice, but there is no doubt at all what the meaning of that operation would be—that it would be simply equivalent to a bounty of 10s on refining in India. And this might happen : it might be that in India, in consequence of the dearness of skilled labour and the dearness of capital and machinery, refining might cost 5s per cwt more than in England, and still it might be worth while to get sugar refined in India rather than to send it to be refined in England, because of the 103 fine imposed by the fiscal laws here. That is the nature of the view we take. We are not willing to give any premium on the employment of labour and capital in England as compared with India : but certainly we are not willing to impose a penalty upon the employ ment of labour and capital in England, which is in our view the effect of the duty. We have resolved to amend the duty on the principle laid down in the memorial of the Man chester Chamber of Commerce. Now, I will explain my proposals. The present duty on sugars—rejecting for a moment the consideration of the semi-liquid classes, is dis tributed amongst four ela,ses ; refined 18s. 4d.; equal to white clay, 16s. ; equal to brown clay, 13s. 100. ; musco vado, or not equal to brown c!ay, 128. Bd. I must mention Dutch numbers—which may he speaking in a foreign tongue to society in England, but which are the only universal language of the alga: trade of the entire world ; and if you tell a man what a duty is in Dutch numbers, it is constru able in the tongue of every foreign country, and he knows exactly upon what quality of sugar the duty will fall. The refined sugar corresponds with the Dutch No. 20, which is the highest of them. The 163. duty, or equal to white clay. corresponds with Dutch Nos. 15 to 18 ; the 13s. 10d. duty corresponds with Nus. 11 to 14 ; the 12s. 8d , or not equal to brown clay, corresponds with Nos. from 7 to 10; and nothing under 7 can possibly pay the duty which we now impose. We have had to consider whether it is desirable for us to alter essentially the dividing points between these classes. There are four classes, and therefore three divid ing points. These dividing points do not rest upon any abstract principle, but upon knowledge and experience, and are well understood here and all over the world. Therefore, we have thought it very undesirable to recast the duty in Coto, and to establish a completedy new state of distinction. Consequently we adhere to these dividing points between the different classes now establi-hed ; but we meet the grievance in the better class of refined sugars by diminish. ing the interval of duty at the upper end of the scale ; and we meet the grievance in the lower class by establishing a new class, at a lower rate of duty than the rest, for the pur pose of making those sugars admissible which are now pro hibited. The drawbacks, of course, will have to be altered in proportion to the duties; and I should say also, in regard to a collateral point of some importance, that, to make this change fair as regards the refiner, we shall pro pose to postpone the reduction of duty o n foreign refined sugar to four weeks from the present day. We hope, if the committee shall be disposed to accede to our proposal, and think it reasonable to proc eed this day week with the resolution relating to sugar, then on Saturday week the new la ce will be is actual operation. I will now read the new scale. Refined sugar, instead of l ne 4d, will be 12s 10d ; the second class, or equal to white clay, instead of 163, will be lls 81 ; the third, or equal to brown clay, instead of 13s 10d, will be lOs ; the fourth, not equal to brown clay, instead of 12s 8d will be 93 4d , and a new oh ss of in ferior sugars, corresponding with Dutch n umbers not rising above No. 6, to be 8s 20 ; the duty on peeled() and molasses will follow in proportion, the duty on the former for 6s 7d, and on the latter 3s 6d. The effect of this I will describe as well as I can. The interval between brown clay and re fined, the chief subject of complaint, is so great that it cer rainly does destroy and divert the natural course of trade. It is now 4s ed ; we reduce it to 2s 4d. The firth class pro vides for the lowest classes of sugar. The smallest reduction made is 3s 4d, the largest 5s 6d, the average is over 4s. The effect of this ch ange will be to place the sugar duty in this country is—or more than ls— lower than it ever reached in any former year. (Cheers.) We shall propose to make this act permanent, and to leave the tea duty renewable from year to year. I will show the com mittee what will be the financial result of this plan. (He ar, hear.) The revenue from sugar for the year 1864.5, as we e stimate it, will b e £5,555,000. 'I he reduction of the duty, as I have stated, would cause a first loss of £1,719,000 ; but allowing for the entry of sugars now practically excluded, and taking credit for increase of consumption amounting to 6 per cent, which I consider a very moderate estimate. £361,000 of that sum would be recovered, and the loss to the revenue.in 12 months would be £1,358,000. But allowing for the fraction of the' year that has already passed, the probable net loss will be £1,330,000, and that at once, as th e house will see, reduces my surplus from £2,56',030, to X 1,230,000. So much for the v h n e lv c e i s rc a urn whether duty—because their is f it n sugar duties, upon which it has been necessary for me to d which is made for hear.) .) under t n t enter rather fully in order to make myself intelligible to the sms:htuaaebnyj reductionce e c b s t e o , o f f t o t g h r e e p ao d a t r a s for her I m n a j o e w ety co ,e m G e otoverannisuebnjte,ct which it is impossible re venue of £6,000,000. A reduction of one-half would in the first instance involve nearly twice as much as the large i s yrn b ip) :ye repeal mtl w a oen i fa t nn h et o.htuhe(toumnedanoelrtatt: notice, re duction I have just proposed for the sugar duties ; and I can not disguise, and do not disguise, that is a question of great political importance. A great victory has recently been won in Hertfordshire. (Laughter.) A gentleman, highly compe tent not only to take his share in the business of this house, but even to adorn this house, has, as I am informed, failed to obtain a seat in Parliament because he was not ready to accede to the demand for the repeal of the malt tax. (A laugh) The successful candidate saw no difficulty in his way, and on the list of his committee appeared a name most justly respected in this house--the name of a person of great political influer le—the name of my right hon. friend the member for Hertford: hire, and Secretary for the Colonies in the late Administration. The question then is, has the remission of the malt tax a claim upon our remaining sur plus? Is the house disposal t o give that to the repeal of the malt duties ? (No, no, and laughter.) It is commonly said that if we reduce the malt duty by one-half there will be little or no loss. But practically one half the malt duty was taken off when the beer duty was removed. Thirty-four years have elapsed since the beer duty was removed, but although during the last year the malt duty raised £700,000 more than in the year before, the malt duty has not yet supplied the loss of the beer duty. For in 18 t 9 the joint produce of the beer and malt duties was £7,280,000, while last year the malt duties only produced Se3,o9l,ooo—the average produce of the melt duties during the last few years being 51 moliens—whilst after 35 years have elapsed from tion as to how the surplus is to be dealt with. Perhaps the committee may be surprised when I say it is intended to submit to the Houses of Parliament a proposal for altering the present duty upon corn. The duty on corn is at present levied by measure, while almost all transactions connected with the foreign corn trade are carried on by weight. In consequence of this discrepancy, and the inconvenience re sulting from it, the merchants connected with the corn trade —I think 12 months ago—made representations to the Go vernment that the form of duty ought to be altered. We propose accordingly to alter the duty from the uniform rate of one shilling a quarter, to a uniform rate of threepence per cwt. This change will take effect immediately on the passing of the Act. It is also proposed to put some articles of very small importance—such as lentils—which now pay no duty, on the footing of corn. That has been done at the request of the trade. But, sir, I ought to mention that it has been proposed by many persons connected with the trade to modify the duty in this wa) —to lay a duty of 3d, per cwt. on wheat, and 2d. per cwt. on other kinds of grain. And it is very justly said that that would be a more fair arrangement in reference to the value of the article on which the duty is imposed. Now, there are two reasons which have withheld the Government from acceding to that view of the case. One is that the change would entail a considerable loss to the exchequer, which we do not think that, having a pressure of other claims, we are in a condition to afford. The other objection is this, that it would appear as if we were deliberately setting about the construction of a regular system of corn duties, and as if we regarded that item as a permanent portion of our finance. When the corn duty was imposed in 1846, it was imposed under the idea of its being a nominal source of revenue. It has, however, pro duced considerable revenue, with which it Might be dif ficult to part. lam not prepared to say that it should be parted with at the present moment ; but I confess that, on the other hand, I should be reluctant to commit myself to any plan which appeared to assume that a duty of this kind —not a heavy duty, but still more than a nominal one—is to be regarded as permanently imposed upon the chief atticle of subsistence. I propose to make a change in the rate of the charge for the licences of dealers in tea in cer tain cases. It is well known that these licences, in some cases, operate severely in the rural districts, where the deal ings of the shopkeepers in each particular branch of trade are very small ; and they are obliged to combine a great number of branches in order to constitute a business that will yield a competent and moderate return. At present no i person can sell a pound of tea without paying the shm of lls 6d for a licence. That sum of Ils6d is reckoned to be 10 per cent. on the sale of from 30 to 35 pounds of tea in the year. That tends to narrow the supply of this commodity, especially to the rural population. It is not felt as a griev ance in the towns. I think it is good policy, even taking no higher ground, in furtherance of the great change which we adopted last year, to make a reduction upon that duty with reference to the thinly populated districts. I therefore propose in all houses under £lO a year rating, and not being in a municipal or parliamentary borough, to reduce the duty from lls 6d to 2s 6d. That would cause a loss to the re veuue of £lO,OOO. Two years ago we adopted useful regu lations with regard to hawkers. We legislated for hawkers on foot and for hawkers having one horse. We reduced the duty from £3 to £4; but we forgot the case of the hawker who had two horses. (Laughter.) The result is that at the present moment a hawker who has two horses pays £4 on one, and £8 on the other. We propose to place both horses on the same footing. (Renewed laughter.) We propose the equalisation of the stamp duties which are now payable upon admission to ecclesiastical benefices of small value. At present there is a distinction in the rates of charge in the case of rectories, vicarages, and perpetual curacies. There is no ground for the distinction. We propose, there fore, to abolish it, and substitute for the scale now in force —which would levy a payment of £7 upon presentation and institution together to benefices of £3OO a year—a scale of duties which will bring the charge to £5 in the case of bene fices under £3OO a year, and which would diminish as the value of the living decreased ; so that a living of less annual value than £5O would be altogether free from charge. Next, sir, I willingly accede to the hon. member for Devizes the proposal he has suggested, which proposal is founded on good sense; it is, that the duty on proxies to vote at jeint stock companies, which at present is 6u, but which was formerly 305, shall be reduced from 6d to ld. I pro pose certain reductions upon the duty on letters of attorney for the receipt of dividends, anti I pro, ose to make a change in the stamp duties with regard to the sale and transfer of the stock of foreign companies. I propose to legalise the practice known as marine reinsurances upon payment of ld stamp, as in the case of fire insurance. I propose, under the same control of the magistrates, to give to refreshment-houses and sellers at the bar the benefit of occasional licence, as far as it is enjoyed by pub licans. lam silent on the question of charities this year ; but I wish to remind the committee that there isno change in our views, and certain directions have been given by the Home Secretary for the purpose of collecting information, which will be laid before Paniament, to enable it to form a sound judgment when its attention will again be drawn to the subject (Hear, hear.) Therefore, with the insigni ficant exception of £10,030, the surplus will stand nearly at its original amount. Now as regards the disposal of the actual surplus of £2,500,000. (Hear, hear.) This year has brought forward a large number of formidable claimants ; but I shall endeavour to deal fairly with such cases as can not be possibly passed over. With regard to the largest portion I will not keep the committee in suspense. I don't think, when the matter is considered apart from prejudice, interest, promise, or pledge, there can be any doubt that the first claim upon the surplus is the claim of sugar. I need scarcely remind the committee of the enormous importance of that article. I believe its importance, as regards the comforts of the people, stands next to corn. The duty on sugar was raised for the purposes of war, and the principal part of the impost was never removed. We now propose to make a considerable reduction in the sugar duties. At present sugars are 10s. above the price of 1863, and they are Gs. above the price of 1861 and 1862. There is no com parison between the claims of tea and sugar. With regard to tea, we are dependent upon one source of supply, and we are the great consumers of the world, and exceed all other consumers in a large degree ; whereas, in the article ot sugar, our consumption is small with reference to the total consumption of the world. Sugar is produced in a mul titude of countries and is sent into a multitude of markets; and the consequence is that if it is diminished in price it will have the effect of attracting it to the highest mar kets, and, therefore, mitigating whatever inconvenience may be felt from a restricted consumption. Tho stock offers by no means a satisfactory prospect. On the last day of February, 1862, the stock of sugar was 707,000 cede. ; on the last day of February, 1863, it was 238,000 cats.; and in 1864 it was 227,000 cwts. But now I approach the most formidable part of my task this even ing. I said I proposed to deal with the sugar duty, but how is it to be dealt with ? There arises a question which is grave in two senses. The question whether sugar is to be taxed with a uniform or a classified duty is one of great im• portance to all who are interested in its cultivation ; but, on the other hand, as regards details, it abounds in every ele ment of repulsiveness. The present classified duty upon sugar is approved by some, while it is a scandal and offence to many more. The system of a uniform duty became gra dually modified until the markets were opened to all the sugars of the world ; but we found we had to deal with classes of sugar of which very little was previously known. In the year 1841 the consumption of sugar was 71bs. per head of the population. In the year 1851 there was a change consequent upon free trade, and the consumption had risen to 26:lbs. per head. In the year 1861, after being ten years under the operation of the classified system—but when we had not the power to give the boon to the consu mer which was given in the ten years between 184 L and 1851—the consumption per head was 35ilbs.; and in 1863 the consumption rose to 3541b5. per head of the population. Referring to the influence of authority, I may say that the literature upon this question has been enormous. (Hear.) Up to within the last fortnight, I believe I may conscien tiously say that I kept myself on a level with the press of the country. So far as the sugar duties are concerned in the last fortnight, however, my efforts have been baffled. (Renewed laughter.) But upon the subject of authority, passing from the opinion of political economists, I may re mind the committee that a select committee was appointed upon the motion ot the member for the City of London, two years ago, under the presidency of my right hon. friend the Secretary for the Colonies, and that the report of that com mittee, atter a most patient investigation was distinctly in favour of the present system of classification. Nor is that all. Last year we had what may be called an international dis cussion upon this subject. Representatives from the customs departments of England, France, Belgium, and Holland, met in Paris and discussed the subject; and not only did the representative of England find no reason to recede from the system of this country, but the representatives of France and Holland came to the conclusion that they would do well to abandon the system of an uniform duty. As far, therefore as authority is concerned, we have ample in favour of classification. Bat it is said classification means protec tion ; and there is another argument, drawn from the analogy of the mode in which we have dealt with other articles. No doubt Parliament did impose duties upon dif ferent descriptions of tea ; and it abandoned that system not because it came to the conclusion that the principle was false, but because we found from the nature of the commo dity that the arrangement was impracticable. And now is it true that a system of uniformity is the system recognised throughout our tariff? lam happy to say that our tariff has now reached very moderate dimensions ; nevertheless instances may be set forth, almost all of which are in favour of classification. There are the wine duties for example. Again, refer to the case of coffee. When coffee comes over here in the raw state it pays 3d ; when roasted it pays 4d. Cocoa, when it comes here as a pure raw material, you tax id in the lb ; when it comes removed from the husk you tax it ld ; and when it comes in the more advanced stage of chocolate you tax it 2d in the lb. Take the case of corn. The duty on corn is now is a quarter, but you are going to make the tax 3d a cwt. Well, what is the duty upon flour, which may be said to be corn refined ?—why, , liel per cwt. Lastly, take the case of wood. Wood pays a duty of is a load, but if sawn into deals it pays 2s. Therefore, so far as the analogy of our tariff goes, it is in favour of classification• TIM SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, APRIL 8, 1864. the time when practically half the malt duty was taken off, there is still a gap of millions not filled up. If then you choose to take the step which you are asked to take, you may tell your little children now growing up that the longest lived amongst them may witness the recovery of the malt duty, but pray give up any hope of seeing it yourself. What, indeed, is the great grievance of the growers of barley in this country ? The grower of fine barley, who possess a practical monopoly, has no grievance at all. During the 25 years when the duty was levied by the sliding scale, from 1827 to 1846, the average price of barley was 32s 6d per quarter ; for the 17 years since the repeal of the sliding scale, it has been 43s 11/d. But that is not all, for while there has been a rise in the price of all barleys, there has been a special and peculiar rise in the price of the good barleys, and growers of which are now so obstre perous for relief. But it is time, sir, that the question sh - ould be looked at from another point of view. When the member for Hertford proposes to sacrifice some millions on account of the malt tax, let us consider how this bears upon the interests of the three countries, England, Scotland, and Ireland, and how the remission would be divided amongst them. At present, if I take the revenue from spirits and malt together, I find that England pays £10,21E,000, or 10s a head ; Scotland, £3,620,000, or 22s a head ; and Ireland, £2,653,000, or lOs a bead. What would be the effect of taking five millions or three millions off the malt tax ? It would be a boon to England to be made up by general taxes on the three kingdoms. Scotland anti Ireland would obtain almost no part of the relief, but would be liable to pay their fair share of any augmented income tax or other tax which might be imposed. (Cheers.) The malt duty paid in Eng land during the financial year just expired was £5,722,000 ; in Scotland, £263,000 ; in Ireland, .C 306,000. (Hear.) Under these circrmstances, the Government, not insensible to the evils of a system of excise as applied to any manufac ture, have come to the conclusion that they would betray their duty to the country, under the circumstances in which we stand, if they proposed to apply any part of the surplus to the reduction of the malt tax. (Cheers.) Now, there is another question which it is ray duty to bring to the notice of the house—the income tax; for this is a ques tion not only involving the largest amount of revenue on which it is in the power of a Minister to address Par liament, but it is in other respects the most important, because it is associated with the strength and security of the country in, times of emergency in a manner which belongs to no other tax whatever, and in volves social relations touching the relations of class to class, and their relative susceptibility to taxation, and moral questions concerning the effect of certain schedules, which are of a moment far transcending those which bear on ordinary questions of taxation, It appears to me that the country should be dealt with fairly and openly on the subject of the income tax. Parliament should consider — Will it maintain the income tax on its present level—abolish it altogether—reduce it to a lower level—regard it as an in strument of ordinary finance—or, declining to employ it in time of peace, reserve it for great national emergencies, ex cept as a means of effecting further reforms in our fiscal system ? These questions have never been decided by Par liament. In 1842 the income tax was imposed to facilitate commercial reforms—in 1815 it was renewed with a view to still further commercial reforms—in 1849 it was renewed on the proposition of my right hon. friend the Secretary of State for India, in a time of considerable apprehension, although not of actual danger. In 1851 Parliament refused to renew it, except after the appointment of a parliamentary commit tee. In 1853 it was renewed for the longest period for which Parliament has ever granted it, but it was renewed upon a statement of figures and calculations which appeared to afford a reasonable promise of its extinction. In 1860 it wa s renewed, and even raised, to meet the necessities of the country, in connection with our establishments, and like wisd with a view to carry still further the work of commer cial reform. Since 1860, Parliament has taken no distinctive any que stion of policy connected w ith it. The r esolution or. . .mod to 7d. in the pound, we find our tax being now reduo- were in 1812. These are selves at the point where we have an opinion. questions on which earliament ought of in the It, is not desirable that they should be dispose,. • -alt dark, or that the income tax should be continually me. with simply by rene vats from twelvemonth to twelvemonth, founded perhaps on, and sufficiently justified by, the exi gencies of the moment, but having no reference to policy announced to the country, and to a clear, distinct, and decided opinion on the part of Parliament with respect to the proper use of that great tax. There are, no doubt, many arguments which tend very much in favour of the permanent maintenance of the income tax, even as a matter of ordinary revenue. Its efficiency is enormous. Ido not know any other tax by which, in the same degree as by the income tax, you get at the vast reserved capital of this country. You get it by the income tax—a tax very rough and unequal, subject to that mysterious process of almost virtual self-assessment which refers it pretty neariy to she conscience of the taxpayer, in the great majority of cases, to determine what precise payment shall be made. But still, after all, they are got at by better means than by any other engine of taxation. But there is, as the house is well aware, much harshness in the mode in which the income tax ope rates upon the lower incomes which it affects. That opera tion has been much mitigated by the measure adopted last year, There is no doubt that those who desire the perma nent maintenance of the income tax have reason to congra tulate themselves on the adoption of that measure, which very greatly relieves the harshness of the tax in the lower part of the region in which it acts. But it is still severe upon porno as dependent upon small fixed incomes—upon what may be called the non-elastic incomes of the people. It imposes undoubtedly a very great amount of trouble in the assessment. It has often been my business in this house to perform the invidious task of deprecating the complaints of honourable members with respect to the vexatious annoy ance which it involves. That is not because Ido not sym • pathise with those complaints, because 1 know how much annoyance and trouble is inseparable from the ordinary operations of the tax, especially at the triennial period, when the assessments cn certain portions of the community in schedule A are to be renewed. The inquisition into pri vate affairs is a serious matter in connection with the in come tax. The use of a war tax in time of peace—of a por tion of your last resource—is a matter which, if for no other reason, deserves the notice of the house. The opinion of the inequality and injustice of the tax, of which the hon. member for Buckingham (\lr. Hubbard) is the champion in this house, though her Majesty's Government do not accede to it, they cannot deny to be an opinion which is widely spread among a large class of people. (Hear, hear.) There is no doubt that this a matter to be considered with reference to any tax whatever. It is needless to enter into the subject of fraud. It is said, and I am afraid it would be difficult to deny, that the extent to which encouragement is given to it is very great. But there is one operation of the income tax which I cannot help—though it is matter only of private opinion—frankly stating to the house. It is its operation with regard to public economy. (Hear.) That is a topic which I do not think has been fully, or indeed ever, aiscussed before Parliament. Long experience in the office I hold, necessitating my placing myself in conflict at all times of day and night, and in all places and ad circum stances with every sort of demand for increased public ex penditure, has brought me, after long observation, to the conclusion, that it is the desire of the house to re- establish in public ,administration those principles of reasonable • hritt—l do not speak of wholesale retrenchment, in which I have little faith, but those principles of reasonable thrift which directed the Government of this country from about the period of the Duke of Wellington's Administration down to the Russian war—if they are to be re-established in administration, I greatly doubt whether it can be done if the income tax is a permanent portion of the fiscal system of this country, with a view to satisfy, not any particular exigencies nor to work out great reforms, but with a view to satisfy the ordinary every-day expenses of the country. (Hear.) After stating that it may be said, " But why all this talk about economy ? have you not stated the wealth of the country, the growth of the revenue, the enormous extension of our trade. ?" Yes, I have ; but I hold this opinion as a matter of principle, that publio economy re mains just as much a duty of this house as before its great work of commercial legislation—before we reaped the bene fit of railways--before the country had achieved the vast material, and I hope likewise the great social and moral progress, of which we have had the happiness to be wit nesses. (Hear, hear.) lam afraid it must be said of this country, " You have had, you still have, and you always will have, an enormous mass of pauperism." We have 840,000 dependent on the poor rates; but that does not in clude the numbers which are relieved by private charity, though not driven to the hard recessity of that last resort, the poor law or the workhouse. That is a large mass of pauperism; but think of the large number of poor who are bordering on that region ; think of the multitudes of the labouring classes who struggle manfully, but who with difficulty avoid it. I saw recently a clergyman of the East end of London, who told me, " I have 13,000 people, of whom 12,000 are for ever on the verge of destitution." I read last week a letter from one of the best known philan thropists of this country, in which he described the state of the whole district at the East-end of London, where you could not find a cab or art omnibus, where there was not any street music, and not even a street beggar. What are we to say of the peasantry of this country ? Happily, much has been done in many places, where their wages have much increased, but in many places they have not increased. What are we to say of the duty of public economy when we think of the population of Ireland ? Human life, in nine cases out of ten, is a struggle for existence ; and if the means for carrying on that struggle are somewhat bettered, yet the standard of wants has risen equally with the stan dard of means. In respect to public economy, we have, independent of general arguments, that which we gave two years ago upon the motion of my noble, friend at the bead of the Government, in which he very wisely asserted the prin ciple that " this house, deeply imperssed with the necessity of economy in every department of the State, but at the same time mindful of its obligations to provide for the security of the country at home and the protection of its interests abroad, observes with satisfaction the decrease which has already been effected in national expenditure, and trusts that such further diminution will be made therein as the state of circumstances may permit." That is the relative situation of the Government with respect to taxation. After all I have said, I certainly am not one who ought to propose a policy relating to the income tax reaching over a long term of years. I have been sufficiently warned of the dangers of propositions of that kind. We ask the house to adopt no general conclusion en the subject of the income tax. We do not propose a plan to abolish it. We do not propose that the committee should pledge it self to its abolition as a policy. That which we do propose is this—that we should adopt as a policy its redaction, as circumstances may permit, to that which was once its legal minimum ; and that we should now proceed to take the first of the two steps which would bring us to that legal mini mum. (Cheers.) The proposal is to take off one penny from the income tax. (Cheers.) But if we can reach the standard of 5d on the income tax, that would establish a position in which Parliament would have it in its power to consider de liberately and upon principle what course it should pursue. Now, sir, we propose to make a reduction in the tax to 6d. The ultimate loss would be £1,230,000, and the immediate loss will be £BOO,OOO. The case of schedule B—l may say of 'cotland and of Ireland—will be dealt with precisely in the manner it was dealt with by the act of 1853. £400,000 of the loss will be postponed, and the surplus, which began at £2,570,000, will be reduced to £434,000. But there is yet another subject. In consequence of the indications—the formal indications—given by the house, we have thought it our duty, limited as our means are, to consider whether we could submit a measure which would indicate our desire to meet with deference' and respect the convictions that are entertained by the House of Commons, even when we do not entirely and absolutely share them. I advert, sir, to the fire insurance duty. (-beers.) We do not think we should have been justified in entertaining a large proposition with respect :o fire insurance duties, to the displacement of either of the proposals which have made; nor are we prepared to L accede—and I trust the committee will not ask us to accede —to any such proposal. How does the case of the fire in surance stand? The amount cf it is £1,700,000, and it increases at the rate of about £O,OOO a year. Now, here again we are met with this difficulty. There is the greatest possible difference of opinion with respect to what I may call the self• recovering power of the fire insurance duty in the event of a reduction. I must say, for my own part, that I am not very sanguine, at least as regards the greater part of that duty, Upon examining the duty, it will be obvious to the committee that it divides itself into two portions. One portion of it, the larger portion, is a tax upon property ; the remaining and smaller portion is a tax upon industry and trade. Two thirds of it may be said to be levied on buildings and furni ture—that is a tax upon property; one-third, as nearly as it is possible to make a conjectural estimate, is levied upon what may be called stock-in-trade: Now, my hon. friend the member for Bradford, in connection with an important deputation from the Chamber of Commerce of that town, expressed publicly to me a short time ago a strong opinion that, as regards stock-in-trade, so far as his observation went, with reference to those bra'nches of commerce with which he is connected, a reduction of the fire insurance duty would be followed by a rapid recovery. Undoabtealy Igo thus far with him. I admit it to be a general rule that taxes upon trade, industry, and labour, when they are re duced, recover rapidly; but taxes laid upon property, when they are reduced, recover slowly. We have seen that in the case of the assessed taxes and in other instances ; the solu tion of which is, that taxes upon property, are in the main paid by the rich. They do not feel seriously or sensibly for the most part the burden of those taxes, end when removed their proceedings are not materially affected. New, sir, we have felt that if this question is in dispute as to the self recovering power of the fire insurance duty, it would be very desirable to endeavour to arrive at some solution of it by the trial of an experiment, and therefore the proposal we make to Parliament is to reduce the duty from 3s to is 6d, so far as stock-in-trade is concerned. (Hear, hear) We shall then see what the energy of commerce will effect with re spect to this particular portion. We have felt that there is something invidious in the present positionfof the duty on farm stock with reference to stock-in-trade. They are really essentially the same thing, and they ought to have been traced in the same manner. We do not propose to impose a duty upon farm stock. I think that exemption was unfairly granted when the duty on the stock-in-trade was retained. (Hear, hear.) At the same time, we are not prepared to propose that the duty should be reimp sed, but we are glad to miiigate the incqaality of the reduction of one-half. Of course this will not take effect until the • Act passes. nropose it should take effect from the Ist of • July, and 1: will be necessary to introduce a provision ••urn of duty upon altered policies, with respect to the re. t the lower rate. The finan which would, of course, be lads of the fire insurance c ial result will be this. The prom duty upon stock-in-trade is £566,000. The first loss by ,aerate for reduction will be £283,000 ; but, es it will only nine months, the loss will be £213,000. I allow for ..: 11 in crease of 10 per cent., which would be £21,000 ; net loel 4 for 1861-5, £192,000. Now the committee will see that I have got to the lull end of my tether. (A. laugh.) The surplus, before deductions, was £2,570,000. The proposed changes, and the relief by them, are as follows. The relief would be : On sugar. £1,719,000; on income-tax £BOO,OOO ; on fire insurance, £213,000 ; and on tea licences, £15,000 ; making a total of £3,747,000. There will be a farther loss in 1865 6 on sugar of £28,000 ; on income-tax of £433,000 ; on fire insurances of £10,000; making a total of £531,000. The financial loss on which I must reckon in the present year, namely, 1864-5, would be, on sugar, £1,330,000; on income-tax, £800,000; on fir© insurances, £192,000; and on tea licences, £10,000; making a total loss of £2,332,000. The relief from taxes in this year will be greatly augmented by the enactments of last year. The relief from taxation which would operate this year is made of £4747,000, which we now invite you to adopt,and of £008,.000 handed over to us from the remissions of 1863, making in all a total relief for 1861.5 of £3,645,000. The loss by the changes I have proposed being £2,332,000, the surplus, after these deduc tions, is £238,000. (dear, hear.) It has grown "fine by degrees and beautifully less," and I am sure I need not say to the committee that that is not a surplus upon which we could possibly contemplate making any further operations. (Hear, hear.) The plan of the changes we have proposed, we have proposed in the discharge of our responsibility, and not at all as being of opinion that they ought to be or can be com pared in point of magnitude as regards the remissions with some former periods ; but they are, as we think, contributions towards the accomplishment of the great purposes which Parliament has taken in hand; and taken as the proposals of a particular year, they may, perhaps, be just like the stone that is cast by the passing traveller upon the heap. Each separate contribution is small, but the general result is that a heap of them arises, which becomes enough to commemorate some signal action or the death of a great man. It is in that sense we submit them to Par liament. We believe them to be good. We 'Unit they will meet with your acceptance, and that you will concede them to be a pledge on our part of out earnest desire to co• operate with the Legislature in carrying yet further forwards those purposes the partial accomplishment of which has already done so much for the strength and security of England— for the comfort and happiness of the people—for the honour of the age in which we iive—and for the hopes that we en tertain on behalf of the times that are yet to come. (Loud cheers ) The right hon. gentleman whose statement occu pied precisely three hours is its delivery, then placed in the chairman's hands the resolution for the alteration of the duty on corn, Mr. CR A.WFORD thought the statement which had just been made would give general satisfaction to the country. The sugar duties were not levied in a satisfactory manner, and he should be prepared to move a mode for the settle• went of those duties, which would be at variance with the proposition submitted. Mr. CAVE said, with reference to the licences upon beer houses, he hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would give some other definition of those who were to be excluded from the benefit of the change proposed. Mr. HUBBARD expressed his regret at what had been announced respecting fire insurances. Sir J. FEIIGUSSON having offered a few observations upon the surplus, Mr. WHITE said he shared the satisfaction of the house with the Chancellor of the Exchequer's statement, The results of free trade policy ware certainly marvellous. He deprecated and deplored, however, the reduction upon the income tax, seeing that a much moro advantageous policy could be pursued by lessening the cost of those articles which were so largely consumed by the working classes. Mr. DUNLOP thought that, upon consideration, the member for the City of London would scarcely bring in any measure at variance with what had been stated by the Chancellor of the Exchequer respecting the sugar duties. Mr. WHITESIDE criticised the policy which had been pursued by the Chancedor of the Exchequer concerning the spirit duties. The increase in the rate of duty had pro duced the reverse of a good effect. It had caused an increase in adulteration. He understood from an eminent distiller that, though pure spirits were sent out by the distillers, a great deal of it was adulterated before being sold in conse quence of the b'gh duties. In the first place it was watered, then treacle was added, and it was strengthened by vitriol. This dangerous and unpleasant compound was called Glad stone's Cordial. (Laughter.) In the course of further re marks upon the ill effects of the increase of the duty upon spirits the hon. member said he believed there never was a time when the illicit distillation of spirits was so rife in Ire land as at the present time; and it was a very remarkable fact that wherever there was an illicit still there was Rib bonism. (Hear, hear.) He thought the right hon. gentle man should act up to his policy, and restore the duties to what they were in 18.58. Mr. MERRITT intimated that, notwithstanding what had fallen from the Chancellor of the Exchequer in regard to malt, he should persevere with the motion of which he had given notice on that subject, Mr. KINNAIRD regretted any trader should be speci ally oppressed by taxation, but in the case of spirits there were high moral considerations why the duty should not be reduced. Lord C. HAMILTON, on the other hand, urged that a high duty led to illicit distillation, and observed that, for himself, he should have been rejoiced if any reduction could have been made in that branch of the revenue. Mr. NORRIS suggested further and more equitable alte ration in the beer licences, and that the gigantic joint stock companies which were every day springing into existence might be made to contribute to the exigencies of the State. In regard to the importation of rags, the Chancellor of the Exchequer was wrong in supposing that the quantity re presented by the Board of Trade returns as having been im ported within the last is months were for the purpoee of paper manufacture. The fact was that the cloth manufac turers of Yorkshire and Lancashire were so pressed for ma terial that they now imported the refuse woollen cloths of the Continent, and rewrought them into new material. Mr. M'M AtION advocated a redgetian in the duty crt, spirits and free trade in cultivation, leaving. it to the farmer to produce as he pleased barley, or beet, or tobacco. Mr. BENTINCK complained of the tone in which the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Glalstone) bad spat-en of pr tection. (Heir, hear, and laughter.) He also contended that there ought to be a reduction in the malt tax, and prophesied that the first strong Go eertment velt:ich came into office would re-enact the duty on paper. (Lat:ghter.) Mr. CAIRD remonstrated with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on his proposal to impose a duty on certain in• tenor descriptions of corn, which were principally used in feeding steck and the purposes of distillation. The CHANCELLO it, of the EXC.H.EQUER. then rose to reply. He said his proposal with respect to the descrip tion of corn referred to by the hon. member (Mr. Cairo) was a matter on which all parties should be fully heard, and that in passing the resolution with regard to it, the com mittee would not be bound to any final judgment. While admitting that he had reason to be dissatisfied with the general tone of the discussion, he would observe that he should infinitely prefer to see the fire insurance duty stand. altogether than reduce it by so small a proportion as 6d., With regard to a statement made by an hon. baronet (Sir J. Ferguson) respecting the income tax, the right bon. gentleman reminded the committee that last year, when be submitted taxes of 7d and 9d, the figures he cave the house were about £8,000,000. He now gave 7d, and his estimate was still L 4,600.000, founded on the actual charges known from the general re-assessment which had taken place. In reply to the remarks of an hon. gentleman respecting illicit distillation, he was prepared to show, with regard to Ireland, that illicit distillation had not resulted from augmentation of the spirit duty. As to the paper duty, since he spoke he had had the opportunity of seeing, in a paper laid on the table of the house, that the export duty on rags would be removed by the French Government. movin (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman concluded by g that the chair-. man report progress. The motion was agreed to, and the house resurattd. JAPAN. On the motion for going into committee of supply on the army estimates, Colonel SYKES inquired whether provision had been made in the Estimates for the charge of certain troops transferred from the Indian establishment for service in China or Japan, accompanying the inquiry by a rather long disquisition upon transactions in Japan. Mr. H. BERKELEY called attention to the inferior armament of the Volunteer Artillery Force, and asked whether any steps had been taken or were likely soon. to be taken, to arm the Volunteer Artillery in the came manner as the Royal Artillery. Mr. H. VERNEY moved a resolution, that it is ex pedient that the recommendations contained in the report of the committee on the proper means for the instruction and employment of soldiers and their children in trades, and of the Under -Secretary of State in a letter to the Quartormaster-General, dated May 23, 1862, be carried. into effect, with due regard to the duties and discipline of the army. The Marquis of HAItTIN(kTON, in his reply to Colonel Sykes, said he was labouring under some misapprehension on. the subject of his question, respecting which he gave as explanation. In answer to Mr. Berkeley he observed that the Volunteer Artillery were not intended to act generally in the field, but were raised almost exclusively to serve as garrison artillery, and they had all that was necessary to teach gun drill. In regard to the resolution moved by Sir H. Verney, he explained the intentions of the military authorities on the subject. Sir H. VERNEY withdrew his moe!on. The remaining orders of the day were then proceeded with, when certain bills were forwarded, and the house ad journed at 20 minutes to 12 o'clock. COUNTRY MARKETS. BIRMINGHAM—THURSDAY. Thera was a full supply of wheat to-day, and English sorts met a retail sale at rather below previous quotations. Foreign wheat is cheaper. Fine barley dearer ; secondary unsaleable. Oats an beans witnout change in value, but in more demand. Peas only taken in retail, and as dear. —English wheat was sold at 40s to 46s for white, and 36. to 433 per 36 stone for red, Barley, new malting, 30s is 383 per qr ; grinding, 24s to 28s Oats, old, 22s to 300 per 30 stone ' • Irish, 183 to 245. Beans, 34s t o 40s p er q rs Peas, 32s to 42s per 36 stone. BURTON. ON-TRENT—THURSDAY. Old white wheat-45s to 47s lOA red wheat, 4os to 43s New do. 44s to 47s I New do. 3Bs to 428 Malting barley....33s to 37s I Oats 19s to 28s grinding d0.....28s to 308 1 Beans 36s to 42a MANCHESTER—THURSDAY. A limited atten,dance at our market to-day, end wheat very dull, and prices the turn in favour of buyers for both English and foreign. Flour more pressed for safe, and 6d per sack lower in price. Oats and oatmeal were dull, at about former rates. English beans rather advanced us- value, and Egyptian ruled firm. Indian corn unchanged in price. BRISTOL--Tnuftsrar. English wheat met with a slow demand this morning at about the currency of this day week. Foreign met with an exceedingly dull eale, and prices were is lower. For malting barley higher prices were etiked, which checked the s4o ; grinding sorts in limited sale, and unaltered in price. Oat's more in favour. Beans and peas 6d to is lower, and Indian, corn quite as dear, with a fair demand. EDINBURGH GRAIN—APRIL G. To-day there was a fair supply of wheat, which met a. slow sale at rather under last week's prices. Barley met a ready sale at la advance on former rues. Beans a ready sale, and about is more money. 040 sold slowly. Wheat on the top is Gd up average is lld up. Barley on the top 5s Od down average is lld down. Oats on the top Os Gd d0wn...... average Os 9d dc-wn• Beans on the top 3s 9d up. ...average 3s 9il up. Average Prices. Wheat 3 0 5 ld 0at5 ........ l 9s 93 I Barley 32s Od Beans 33a VI Total Supply and Sales. Wheat ..1015 qrs Sold 623 qrs 8ar1ey........ 853 qrs Sold 751 qrs Oats Beans l7B qrs Sold 204 qrs Flour sells as follows :—Whites, 39s Od ; extras, 378 Od ; superfine, 35s Od ; fine, 33s Od. Foreign Mail Packet List. MAILS DUB. Australia and Mauritius, via Southampton April 13- - via Marseilles April 1Z Jrazil and Cape Verds, by British packet. May 4- Cape of Good Hope, Ascension, and Sr. Helena April 29. ilhina, Penang, and Singapore, via Southarnptori.April 18. via Marseilles April 12; ealkland Islands Gibraltar, via Southampton .. India (Calcutta), and Ceylon, via Southampton.. April 18 via Marseilles.... April I'2 India (Bombay), via Southampton April 11. via Marseilles April 5. Portuga1.... •I aim, Egypt, and Men, via Southampton April 11. via Marseilles April 5. .4 ewfoundland 1 * • April 13. ipurto and Vigo J. S. and British N. America, by Brit. packet.... April 13. by U.S. packet.... by Canadian packet.A.pril E. S.C. of Africa, Madeira, and Toneritte April 10. 3ahamas, via New York May 5. klexico %II parts of West Indies, including Chili, Peru, California. and British Columbia.. ... April 13 [ADVERTISEMENT.] —Consumption, all nervous, billow, liver, and stomach complaints, Li every stage, are only ag gravate and accelerated by drugs of every description, but perimly curable by Du Barry's health restoring Ilevalenta Arabica Food, as proved by thousands of cases which had been considered hopeless. We quote a few.—Cure No. 62,914. Miss Lange, 18 years of age, cured after the medical men had abandoned all hopes of her recovery from the last stage of pulmonary consumption, with fearful cough, expectoration. exhaustion, spitting of blood, perspirations, hollow cheeki, emaciated to a skeleton. She is now, thank God, a perfectly healthy, blooming, fleshy Oa—N. Lange, Commissaire sic Police. Cure, No. 46,270. Mr. James Roberts, of Frit:lle!' Surrey, of thirty years' diseased lungs, spitting of blood, livrt derangement, and partial deafness.—Cure, No. 47,121. Mist Elizabeth Jacobs, of extreme nervousness, indigestiou gatherings, low spirits, and nervous fancies.—Cure, 54,816. Ibe Rev. James T. Campbell, Fakenham, Norfoll4 of indigestion and torpidity of the liver, which had resisted all medical reatment. In tins, Ilb, 2s 9d; 2lb, 4s 6d; 51b, lls ; 121 b, 225; 241 b, 40e. Barry du Barry and Co., No. 77, Regent-street, London ; also Fortnum and Mason; and all grocers and chemists in every town of the United Kingdom. Births. BEAT:MONT.—On the 6th inst., at 144, Piccadilly-terraM ;.^ the Lady Margaret Beaumont, of a eon. HARBORD —Oa the 6th inst., at West Hurling Rector► Norfolk, the wife of the Hon. and Rev. John Harborl, of a daughter. RICARDO.—On the Gth inst., at Gatcombe. Minchinhamr ton, the wife of Henry David Ricardo, Eaq., of a son. Marriages. FORBES—MoNcatrErrE.—On the sth inst., at Perth, C. Forbes, Esq , eldest son of Sir Charles Forbes, Bart., of Nowe ' to Helen, the second daughter of Sir Thom as An d Lady Louisa Moncreffe. IVES—TALBOT —On the 7th inst., at Malahide, Cecil 1 1 . Ives, Esq., Royal Horse Guards. second son o f J. Rat. Ives, Esq., of Bentworth Hall, Hampshire, to the Hon. Susan Anne Talbot, eldest daughter of Lord Talbot de Malahide, Malahide Castle, co, Dublin. Deaths. BUCHANAN —On the sth inst., at Cawdor House, Lanark' shire, Thomas Buchanan, Esq. Dixos.—On the 4th inst., at Hackney, Fredk. Beverley Dixon, Esq , M.D., aged 50. KINGAN —On the sth inst., at 15, Royal-parade, Chelten ham, John Kingan, Elq., aged 93. NEILD —On the 4th inst., at the Town Hall, Manchest*l• suddenly, William Neild, Esq., High Lawn, 13owdent senior Alderman of Manchester, aged 76. SPONG —On the 3d inst., at Richmond, S u rreY, Thoma s Spong, Esq , aged 85. WATTS.—On the sth inst., at 2, Blenheim-crescent, Ken sington-park, W., Alaric Alexander Watts, Esq., aged 68. _ London : Priozod and Prb.ltailed by %ViLLIA.M. ANDRE YS , of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Trts SUN Office No. 1 2 ) Strand. ,n Ow Precinct of the Savoy, a the Coul'y of 11UdicIe3t.--FTV-!‘,Y, Arri.l '3, 18:71.