The Sun. — London, England, 1826-03-01 00:00:00

derstbOd) to inquire whether the attention of his Royal High- Wig thaCommander-in-Chief had been called to a very extra- WrdinarY statement, relative to the treatment experienced by a wadies in Exeter, and which, if true, would demand an imme diate inquiry. Mr. YELL replied, that his Noble Friend was not in the House.; but int he happened to be in possession of some infor mation on the subject, lie would communicate it to the House. He had inquired. from Sir H. Taylor, Secretary to his Royal Highness the - Commander-in-Chief, whether the attention of that illustrious portion had been called to the subject ; and he was intbrmed,, that on his Royal highness being made ac quainted wait the statement, directed an immediate inquiry; anti he had every reason to believe that the statement in all its parts wt's greatly exaggerated, and in midiy particulars wholly unfounded. hut at all events, an immediate inquiry had been ' set on foot. Sir HUSSEY VMAN:said, that the statement was, •to a great extent, exaggerated. An ofFer - Was made to the officer concerned, that the columne . of a.newsnaper would be open to Lis refutat ion of the statement; but he very properly replied, that lie did not think it worth his while to reply to any thing that might appear in a newspisper, but would assist the mvesti gation which the Commantler-in.Chief had directed. The Lieut.-Colonel was accordingly . sent down to Exeter, and an inquiry would be immediately instituted. li:flowing well the prejudice which in the last year had been created against that regiment most unjustly, he was disposed to think the statement .watt greatly exaggerated ; and that, in fact, the whole story had .taken its rise in that unjust prejudice towards a regiment which. deserved as well us any in the service. lie verily believed, that so far from their being any foundation fur blame against the Commanding Officer, whose character wits involved in the stmement the transaction arose entirely front the strong inch nation which he and many other officers felt to avoid corporal punishment, and which induced them to resort to severe drills and other punishments as substitutes. CtllMJl.lttt IAL DISTRESS. Mr. T. WILSON rose, in the first instance, to make an in qui • 'ry relative to the nature of an arrangement which he Wan alerstood had taken place between his Alajesty's Ministers and t!At Bank, the answer to which might perhaps render it mine •eessary that he should persevere irs - his motion. lie begged to ..know now from the Right lion. Gentleman what the nature of that agreethent or convention was ? • • - ThetaANCELLOR of the F.XCHEQUER said that such -had been On Me, and in consequence of what the lion. Gentle man (Mr. Wilson) had intimated, as to his intention of elm ironing his motion, it' became necessary to 'state •to the House .that his Majesty's (imminent had caused a communication to be made to the Bank, requiring to know how far, and to what extent that body might be disposed to give relief in the present state of depression that uttuched to commerce anti manufactures, and whether it Was their intention to advance money on goods. He was able to state that an answer had been received from the Bank, in which they expressed their willingness to acquiesce in the measures submitted for their determination, and that they were then considering the best means of giving effect to the de termination to which they had come. Mr. T. WILSON said that he should, after what had fallen front the Right Hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Excite . quer, say a few words. Ile believed the fact was, if his Infos.- mation was correct, that the Bank of England led consented to the advance of 3 million ; at least he believed there was no -objection on their part to do so. He also understood that it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to institute some measure to secure the Bank from loss, • and also to give them .• every facility its carrying . the proposed measures into effect:— The lion. Gentleman maul, that although he did not consider the proposed measure the best that could have been come to, yet, as the advance of 3 millions of money would be calculated to relieve commerce from the depressed state in which it at pre. sent was, and also to inspire confidence and stability in the minds of the people, he would not *Hafer as to the manner in which the relief so desirable to be given should be afforded.— ..De must say that every individual was most essentially obliged to the Bank for their conduct In the present state of pressure and distress; and he could only add, that he koped the pro posed relief would be extended not to the merchants of London . alone, but to all °tint parts of the country.—(Hear, hear!) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, before the question was disposed of, he wished to repeat what he had before stated, that the• Bank of Englund hod under their consi deration the best means to be adopted for giving the required relief. • It was the intention of the Bank to carry into effect an , advance of three millions; not that they felt themselves bound at present to any specific system of advance, except that of limitation, three millions being the amount to which they bud determined to adhere. it certainly was true as stated by the lion. Member (Mr. Wilson) that Government had an Intention ~of submitting it proposition to Parliament to enable them to pay off a certain proportion of the advance so made by the Bank of England. His night lion. Friend, the President of the; Board of Trade, also intended to submit a proposition to the House, in order to accelerate the measure in contemplation as regarded the low of ,merchant and factor.—alear, hear o—it was only at a •very late hour that lie was informed of what were the intentions of the ]lank on the subject, and therefore he -could nut give tact information :to the House which he should have been otherwise disposed to do. As the whole case was now before the House, he trusted the lion. Gentleman (Mr. :Wilson) would not persevere in his notice of motion. PEA USE stated the great anxiety on the part of the flunk to do all in their power to carry into effect the relief re quired by the distresses of the country, and he felt convinced tog the knowledge of the intention of the Bank would do snore good, by inspiring confidence among merchants and manufac turers, than the advance of .any•sum of money would do, in -deed he felt assured that a very moderate issue would bo required. far. ELLICE begged to be informed, either by the Right Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the Hon. Bank Director (Mr. Fearer:), whether the relief was to be ex. tended to the roanufacturing towns, and whether personal seen '44, as well as the deposit of goods, would be tulip. .The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that as to the precise mode in which the advance wits to be 'wide, or ,whether on individual security or not, be was nut informed. ...Bohai was necessary certainly to a great extent in London, but in the country distress might exist, and did exist, and with that view the relief would be extended 1.1) the manufac turing to • us. Air. 'TIERNEY wished to know whether it was Intended in the repayment by his Majesty's Government of the advance to be made by the Bank, that it was to be done by way of Bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that his Najesty'a Government were not to bear the Bank harmless, but -.Government would essist in relieving the Bank by an Issue of Government. socuritiein • Mr. TIERNEY wished to know whether he was to under. stand that a Bill was to be brought in. The (;MA NCE mon, of the EXCHEQUER said, that ho had not stated a Bill was necessary to establish a commission, but that it was to enable Government to relieve the Bank from a proportion of the advance, and by relieving the Bank also in a further degree by the Acceleration of the measure regarding the merchant and 'actor. Mr.TIERNEY was for some time inaudible in the gal lery ; as soon as we could catch the tenor of his observations we understood hint to nay, that the proposed measure would do some good, but not a general good—the good that was re- • Attired to be done was a restoration of confidence. The con of Ida Majesty's Ministers in the line they now pur sued was don of doing something or nothing, - for icwas im possible to come at u contillision upon the subject.. One fact appeared clear,'which was certainly very flattering to the Bank, that they were to be put in the gala when nobody else could be found to occupy it. And why Was it so ? Because a Noble Lord (Lord Liverpool) had determined that the country should be aucritieed in order that he should be enabled to keep .word, when he. said that no Exchequer bills - should he , issued. lie (Air. Tierney')' could not suppose a case to arise Where the interference of the Legislature was necessary, if the one then before the House was not of that nature. lie did not know how it happened that when that grand panacea for all the distresses that afflicted the'catintry came on, that it was in some Irregular way. Even now, when he was speaking, there was no question before the house, and he could not but wish that the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Ex. chequer) would do hint the obligation' to bring forward the measure in such a shape that he o u g ht state his objections, o f which he bad many, to the measure under consideration in a regular manner.. .the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he was not very sensible of the obligation conferred upon him by the Right. Hon. Gentleman, winch was to give him an opportunity of combating his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) proposi. dons. All he could say was, that he was very ready to take any course as to time to meet the Right lion. Gentleman fair ‘e upon the point, if he would brit u forward u specific motion on the subject. %Viten the alteration of the law of merchant and factor n'ai discussed, perhaps that occasion would afford the Right Hon. Gentleman an opportunity of expressing his views, bot lie could not think that he had been so wanting in opportu. aides for the expression of his opinion as he had stated. At any rate he must not trust to lam (the Chancellor of the Ex. chequer) to bring it for ward, but do it himself, and then he should be quite ready w meet him. - Mr. MANNING was understood to say diet it would be MUM agreeable to the merchants and manufacturers if a Corm mission were to ,it. Sir F. BURDE'II` said that the conduct of his Majesty's Government had been any thing hut that which would inspire confidence. It appeared to be a subject on which strong shades .ef opposition existed, and on which Parliament could not come 40 a conclusion without the fullest information, and therefore he regretted that the lion. Member fbr the City of London (Mr. Wilson) intended to withdraw his motion, because he should have preferred that the relief should have been given direct, and he could not but express his sorrow that it should be done in any other way, and that only because one of his Majesty's Mi nisters had said that he would not adopt those measures which, on former occasions, had been so beneficial to the country. Why they should choose to adopt such a course as was now pursued, when there was so obvious and easy a way of proceeding, it was not easy to imagine. The House were called upon to'give an immedi ite remedy without having any knowledge of the details on which it was called upon to decide, and he could not see why the House should not have the advantage of reflection and thought on a subject of such importance. The Hon. Baronet said he would as shortly as possible state the observations he had to make, because some better occasion might offer on which to state them more at large. He did not concur with any lion. Gent. in thinking that it was possible for the country to return to a metallic currency with the line of policy pursued by his Majesty's Ai iniaters—they could not pay the debt. In the state of public distress under which the country laboured, hie Ma jesty's Ministers ought to have brought before the House a re. duction of all the establishments—as that had not been done it ought constitutionally to be demanded of them, for public opi nion in and out of the House was in favour of a reduction of ex pences. It was not treating the country fairly, it was not treat ing the country in the manner in which it we+ entitled to he treated from the sacrifices it had made on all great and trying occasions. The measure taking place at all was the only sug gestion in which he could - perfectly concur; but he must say that it was quite astonishing that his Majesty's Alinisters, seeing the panic that had occurred, did not at once come for ward and submit a measure to Parliament for relief; and it was not more extraordinary that they should now turn round and do that indirectly which they had in the first instance re. fused to do under any circumstances whatever. The issue of Exchequer Bills, or sonic such Government security, would have been the best means of affording relief, and he was war. ranted in that assertion because it had been often tried. The question surely was, whether the country should continue to be distressed, or whether relief should he aflbrdcd by the issue of Exchequer Rills. It was the opinion of all practical men, from first to last, that an immediate issue of Exchequer Bills would be the best means of affinaling relief. Mr. BROUG ILA NI rose to express his regret that the mo tion Was to be withdrawn, and he entirely concurred with his Hon.'Friend's near him hi opinion that if the Measure ofrelief watt to be afforded, ft ought to be , done tkrousit his Majesty's Government, .and not in the menner proposed, which must doubtless haye.been greatly to the surprise of the Bank Mr. Secretary CANNING said that he 'did - not rise to pm. • long the discussion, but lie must say that the opposition made was not a common one, when there was no question before the House on which they could come to an issue; but when the opportunity did arrive, he should not be backward in meeting the Right lion. Gentleman's arguments and observations. In the first place, the proposed measure was not the same as that of the issue of Exchequer bills, nor was it connected with it; and in the second, the question of issuing Exchequer bills did not rest *upon prophecy, or upon the ground mentioned that night by Hon. Gentlemen on that (the O p position) side of the !louse. The propriety of issuing or not issuing Exchequer hills had been examined and considered by, his Majesty's Go vernment, and it was their opinion, as resulting from that con sideration, that it was not their duty to give relief. lie should be fully prepared to justify the conduct of bus Majesty's Alini sters from any thing contained in the arguments which had been advanced ; an d if' the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Tier ney) was so anxious to express his sentiments, a motion would be shortly before the House which would enable him so to do. - Mr. TIERNEY staid he would avail himself of' the oppor. tunity. Discussion was all he wanted.—Here the matter dropped. EXCHEQUER BILLS IN MD OF PUBLICWORKS. Mr. EL DICE rose to make his promised motion, and ex pressed his satisfaction to learn, front what had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Tierney) that it would give him an opportunity of addressing the !louse. The lion. Gentleman said, he could not bat think that if his Majesty's Ministers had come down- to die !louse, and after the delivery of the Speech from the Throne, stated their intention of furnishing Exchequer bills, they would have restored public credit and public confidence, and have given the greatest facility to the measures which they intende d to promote. Having stated so much on that subject, he would proceed to state the grounds on which be intended to move for the papers of which he had given notice. It would be- in the recollection of the House 'that two Bills had passed the Legislature empowering a grant of Exchequer bills for public works, and for the relief and em ployment of the poor. The amount of Exchequer bills issued to those Commissioners under those Acts of Parliament was three millions. All the issues mulct these Acts were made by tire Commissioners, and he found, on referring to the documents on the table, dint the Commissioners pad advanced money, not only in relief of distress, but also in furtherance of mercantile pursuits. They advanced money to support the working nif mines, in aid of fisheries, and even to maintain the credit of a great hank in the North, on the pretence that it wits intimately connected with the mining and manufacturing interests of that .part of the country. Now he thought that the relief of such embarrassment as we at present experienced would be as legitimate an application of our funds as any of those advances to merchants to which the Commis-. sinners had given their assent. It was for this reason he had made his motion. Some meanshad been taken, it appeared, by Government to relieve the general distress, which would be hereafter brought tOrward. Ile would not, therefore, make any remarks upon it, but he thought that the House ought to be put in possession of the conduct of the Commissioners, and their management of the funds committed to their charge. Some securities had been given to them when they made advances, which might solve by way of precedent for the future. lle would theretbre conclude by moving for " an account, in de tail, of :di advances and issues of Exchequer Bills by the Commissioners for Public Works and the Relief and Employ. mt nt of the Poor ; stating the times when such advances were made, and the amount of interest paid thereon, together with the names of the parties and nature of their securities ; of all repaymentit on account ot' the same, and the balances now due; of the amount of Exchequer Bills accruing, unapplied, and at the present disposal of the Commissioners. ' 'The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would say but few words; he had no objection whatever to the motion of the I-lon. Gentleman so far as regards the general tenor, nor to any part of it except that which called for tine names of the parties who applied to the Commissioners for advances, and the nature of' the security which they offered. This clause he con. sidered liable to great objections, and he believe.! the House would feel at once the reason of his dislike. He doubted even whether the Commissioners ought to specify these particulars, if called upon to do So ; neither were these details indispensably necessary to the object qt' the motion. lie hoped, therefore, that the Hon. Gentlenian would consent to omit it, as being mare likely to hurt the feelings of individuals than to promote the public interest. Mr. HUME did not believe there was or could be any ob jection to time terms of the motion, nor that the Commissioners would feel any repugnance to make these disclosures. Ile had himself formerly moved tor an account of public money granted in a similar manner and for similar purposes, and that ac count, specifying the name of the parties and the aunts they ob tained, was then lying on the table ; nor could he conceive how individuals, when the public advantage was cantemplated, had any right to complain of the disclosure of their names. 111 r. ELLICE said his object in requiring the names of the parties was merely CO nee whether thus 'funds had been well ap. plied, for since time money was intended for public purposes it ollowed that .whoever held it was to be considered the trustee of tine public.' lie ,did not wish to have the names of parties any farther titan was necessary to prove the proper application of the fonds. _ _ _ • bit. ; trusted he should not be thought Irregular, if he now made, a few remarks, which' he bail intended to offer upon the motion of the lion. 31ember for the City of L0nd0n..... But in consequence of that motion going off in a manner to him wholly unexpected,lie had lost the opportunity. He now un der Stood that some arrangemcnt had been made by the Bank for the relief of the distress, and he supposed that explanations bad been given which he had not had the advantage of hearing.— There appeared to be only one point on which they nil agreed— which was, that the country was in Et most deplorable state.— The fact indeed was certain, that never before had it been in. vnlved in such deep and general distress. Ile hoped that it would be the. only object of all parties to strive to alleviate that distress. Ile had thought that an issue of Exchequer Bills would have done more good than any other measure that could be resorted to, as it would have shewn to the country that Par liament did not partake of the foolish and absurd panic which prevailed throughout the country, anti was the principal cause of the distress. He agreed to the abstract proposition that the interference of Government was a thing to be avoided ; but however broadly that proposition was laid down, it was still one to be qualified according to circumstances, and the practical question was, whether there was not in the present circum stances of the country enough to justify a departure from it.— A distinction was attempted to be drawn between the circum stances of the year 1793 and those of the present day, on the ground that the distress of that period grew out of political atfitirs, and not out of overtrading like the present. But who Was it, be sivv.ild be glad to know, that led the way to this overtrading : , t) much as the Right Honourable Gentleman oppo site and the B an k. Th e l anguage emp l o y e d l as t year was ghat of undoubting confidence in the firm and solid anti increas ing Prosperity, and he. thought it rather bard that Ministers should now turn round and say to the parties suffering dis treas, that they were intitled to no assistance whatever, simply because they had-placed reliance on his opinion ; and were Government then blameles s res p ect i ng t h e increased issues of the Bank ? Who was it that drew the Bank into the bargain re specting the dead weight? Who was it that obtained such large advances upon Exchequer Bills ? And if Ministers had not suggested to the Bank the lending of money upon mortgage, could it be . denied that at least they had warmly applauded that measure ? It appeared ter him therefore that Government had led the way to all the distress. Let him call the attention of the House to the situation of the holders of 4 per Cent. Stock. He had lost one-eighth of his income for ever; he had ,lost besides 14 or 15 per cent. of his capital, and that in the glow of an artificial prosperity which was not to l ast n i ne months. It was true he had the opportunity of rejecting Rie offer; but put it in the case of trustees of children, and Aerie. An injury had been done to them quite out of the reach of Exche quer Bills, or of any other kind of relief. If the merchants were now to be told that they ought to have foreseen the present situation of affairs, he would tell the Right Hon. Gentlemen that he had not foreseen it himself; or if he had foreseen it, how could he vindicate his conduct to the holders of Four per Cents. There had never been an occasion when relief was more necessary, and never one when the restoration of confidence was so easy or so valuable. There was nothing but the absence of confidence to prolong the distress—no external pressure, no ex. ternal commations. The evil consisted entirely in panic, and people would not be persuaded that there were no good grounds for panic, unless by the interference of Parliament.— When the 3 per cents. had been the other day at 96, and were now reduced 20 per cent. was not that tact alone sufficient to occasion panic.' The fact had been that we had been giddy, front the eminence to which we had been forced. As to the proposed measure, he slid not find that any body advised or recommended it. The case was like that of a person applying for assistance to a friend, which friend said, " can do nothing for you, but there is a good-natured gentleman in this neigh. hourhood, and I will give you a letter of recommendation to him." Such bad been exactly the conduct of Ministers. After they had received application upon application, they betook themselves to reading, for the first time, the Bank Charter, and then they found out that the Bank had the power of lend ing money upon goods. The Bank Directors were not, how. ever, very eager to exercise this power. They thought it rather a permissive power than one intended to be acted upon. The Bank had been perfectly right to get all the powers in their charter they could, and had shewn great discretion in avoiding as long as possible the exercise of this power. If the possess i on of this 'power by their Charter wits enough to justify the exer cise, why then he could chew that they might p roper l y b uy an d sell land, as an express power to that effect was contained in their Charter. The Right Honourable Gentleman then con tended that Commissioners appointed by an Act of Puha mew would have administered relief more beneficially than it could be administered by the Bank. The latter had no power to administer stn oath, and could not investigate therefore so well the trite grounds of any application. They might, for any thing they could know, be administering to speculations by the advances they could make. The Right Hon. Gentle man then contrasted the powers which might be given to a Parlitimentsry Commission, with those in the p ossess i on o f t h e Bank. Whet, he asked , become of the two millions al ready issued for the purchase of Exchequer bills. They had disappeared—without having done any good. This was suffi dent to prove that it was not want of money that occasioned the distress. Why was any ,ereater advantage to be expected from the issue of the three millions upon goods now spoken of t The object was to restore confidence, and to draw out the money which was hoarded and locked up. This was not likely to be clone by Ministers staving off' the difficulties from them selves to the Bank. He asserted the advantages of the meas. sure adopted in 1793, and as a matter of speculation, but of history. What would Ministers have done if the Bank had refused ? • Would they have sent back the Gentlemen to Manchester and Liverpool to diffuse black despair through. out die country ? If the measure produced any good, the whole credit would he due to the Bank of England.— What would Ministers say to their favourite argument of en couraging speculation now ?—that they had opened the gates of the Bank. What an extravagant power it placed In the hands of the Bank. When they came to have their dinner re newed, what claims they would have acquired, upon the grati tude of Mercantile - Men in that House ? The distress was rather encrensing than diminishing at the present moment, notwith standing all the Bank had already done. Nothing in fact had been interposed to prevent destruction but the conduct of the Bank. They had done every thing—the Government nothing. They had opened the floodsgates of their issues —in December, and then as soon as Parliament met, the Ministers said, out with two millions more. But alt had not Inspired confidence, and he feared it would not be inspired by the present measure. There must be plenty of money. It was prude, and the consequent general disposition to hoard gold that they wanted to purist of, and with a view to that object the measure was nisre milk and water. Ile wits persuaded that the good sense of the country was with hint, and two millions of Exchequer Bills would have been preferred to these three millions of Bank notes. The Bank Directors even did not expect touch good from it. It' combined all bud things. There was the interference which Ministers affected to deprecate, and there was moreover a new tie to the already too doee connection between Government and the Bank. He did not affect any particular veneration for Mr. Pitt, but he was unquemtionnbly a man of large and compre hensive view.; on a subject of this nature he was, without doubt, a high authority. Upon this occasion, he was a Pittite. He again urged the danger of the advances of the Bank finding their way to the wrong men, and being abused for the purposee of speculation. The conduct of Government was, ill some de gree, the cause of the present distress. The 11. and 2/. Bank Note Bill, although he warmly approved of it, had prolonged and aggravated the digress'. It must be heart-rending to a man, separated from bankruptcy by a very narrow line, to be told that any assistance would be withheld, because it was con trary to principle. But where, he ;should be glad to know, was the difference, in point of principle, between an issue of bank notes and an issue of Exchequer Bills ? There was a great many good and worthy men now in jeopardy, and' fir God's sake do not let the Chancellor of the Exchequer have to reproach himself with having stood aloof' when he might have saved them. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if any reconsideration of the subject had in the slightest degree altered the view lie had at first taken of it, there was no con. sideration which would induce him to adhere to his original positions. lint the more he heard, the more strongly was lie convinced of the soundness of the policy adopted by Ministers. —The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated his case with perfect fairness and without the least grain of asperity. He had nothing to complain of in that respect; on the contrary, fie felt that the Right Hon. Gentleman was entitled to his thanks. The Right lion. Gentleman had said that the language of Ministers had inspired a fallacious confidence, and had thereby contributed to the growth of the speculative excesses which were the main causes of the evil, and that it was their duty, there fore, to provide a remedy. It might be their duty to pro. vide a remedy; but did it therefore follow that it was their duty to provide any particular remedy, unless it could be clearly shewn that the particular remedy was better than what they actually proposed ? Ministers had been charged with reducing the rate of int e r es t artificially, in order to facilitate certain great financial operations. But if they referred to the timer; as which particular acts were done, it would appear that there was no foundation for that charge. The reduction of the 5 per Cent& took place prior to any of the transactions to which the extensions of the currency had been ascribed. The Finance Committee of 1017 had looked forward to the reduction of the interest of the - 6 and 4 per Cent. Stocks, its likely to produce a great relief to the country. And when the price of the Government Securities admitted, to the measure, it would have been utterly unpardonable m have neglected dee opportunity of saving an annual charge of 1,400,0001. The Small Note Act, and the Half-pay and Pension Act, both took place subsequently. There had been nu collusion b e . tween Government and the Banks; if there had, it would have been a direct fraud upon the public creditor. As a proof of the determinetion of Ministers to avoid any thing like fraud, b e would remind the House of what took place in the commence ment of 11124, when he had announced his intention of reducing the interest of the 4 pei Cents. fie had been advised in that House to reduce the rate of interest upon Exchequer Bills. To this advice lie had refused to listen, upon the express ground that any act of Government at that calculated to reduce the general rate of interest would have been a scandalous fraud. This, he thought, afforded a p ra ctical proof that Gove rnment bed not been disposed artificially to lower the rate of' interest, to eflbet that which the natural course of events would not enable them to accomplish. The night Hon. Gentleman had referred to the precedent of 1793, and had talked of it as an established practice. If it was to be the established practice, it would make Government the bankers and the pawnbrokers to the whole community; it would teach men to depend, not upon their own prudence, not upon their own resources or those of their Mende, but upon the assistance of Government. Ti le and those of' the p resent b lt e i t g w h e t e l n l on the elciastioufotla7l9l3o,wed for the great difference day. In the year 1792, the Government thought and procl a im, ed that the country was in a state of more secure peace than it had ever before been. The war which broke out in the year 1793, had taken every body by surprise, and Mr. Burke amongst the rest, and was attended by eircumstences which " Al v tl e io i u t g a h proeperity to which the nation character total ly heigt unlike that of any former war.-- precipitate and increase it. appeared to have reached in 1792, might probably have been followed by some degree of revulsion ; yet it was e v id ent broke e a o t u va t r in of u s o u 3 c , h : m a u n s a t ti g ir r e eat a l character as that which year 1621, Again, he would contend that t ime distress of' the although in its intensity , and mode of action it might bear some resemblance to that winch was now felt, yet it was p ro d uce d b y very different c auses . It did not arise then from general ' overtrading, but from eeeetea ging in one particular branch. By the anti -commercial decrees of Buonaparte, and the seta. bating measures adopted by this country, our commercial dealings with the Continent had been entirely suspended, and at this very period the markets of South America were first opened to British enterprize. It walk hardly possible in this concurrence of circumstances,.that our merchants should not avail themselves in an excessive measure of the new opening which South America presented to them. The circumstances of the present case were totally different from either of the formeik If they adopted the same mealteire, they would be fol lowing mitsbad example and setting another. It would be to go on in a vicious circle, at the risk of being at length strangled in its folds. The landed interest at the period of agricultural distress had claims as strong as the commercial and manufac turing interest at this moment, and that interest had not been less urgent in its applications. Ireland again, in a period of calamity might, it had been thought, have been much relieved by an advance of 1,000,000/. for the draining of bogs and the cultivation of flax. Then in 1823 the West India interest applied for assistance, and indeed the nature of its distress was identical with that of the present crisis. It arose from want of confidence, and it was confidently alleged that the votes of that House had contributed to produce It. They had been urged in the name of humanity and of patriotism, to interfere to avert the impending misery by which that important interest was then threatened. The language then held to the planters was, that the interference of Government might indeed afford them temporary andimmedinte relief; but it would only be leading , them on into further embarrassments. What would have been the effect of listening to these successive applications but to transform the Government into the general banker and pawn broker of the country. No man, not even the Right lion. Gentleman himself, thought the interference of Government a good thing per se. It was the everlasting plea of necessity. A plea the most dangerous—and if they did not shut their ears against it, he did not know what might he the consequence. Sup pose they had lent 4,000,000/. to the landed interest, 1,000,0001. to Ireland, to drain bogs and cultivate flax, 5,000,0001., which was the amount applied for to the West ndia Planters, hey would now have had to contend against not only the precedents of 1703 and 1811, but the added precedents of 1022, 23, and 24. How, in the faCe of these multiplied precedents, could the present application have been refused? And if granted, in what situation would Government new be . placed ? It would now be an advance upon loan to different iuterests, no less than 16,000,000/., and it would, besides, have surrendered out of its hands all power of refusal for the future. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that they were now doing the same thing only in a worse way. He must contend that it was a very different thing. The Government not possessing the power, must have procured a law to give themselves that power. The Bank already possessed it. He would ask then, if the very absence of that power on the part of Government, was not an indication that the exercise of it had not been considered a function which could properly or safely be committed to its hands ? lie would ask, on the other hand, if the existence of that power in the Bank of England, was not, at least, a primary indication that they might exercise it without any great danger or inconvenience. The distinction appeared as cleat to his mind as it was obscure to the mind of the Right lion. Gentleman. But in point of fact, would the Bank have had nothing to do with these Exchequer Bills ? How was it in 17;13? They went into the Bank and were cashed, and the seine course would now be followed. It would therefore he placing the Bank in a very awkward situation. It would not be safe to talk about five millions and expect' to issue only one million. The Bank would have to find money for a quantity of Exchequer Bills, to the issuing of which it had been no party. —But suppose the Bank to refuse. The effect of the refusal would be to throw them upon the market and depress the price. Now what would be the effect of this upon the revenue ? The first application for an issue of Exchequer Bills had been made in December lust when they were at a discount in the market of 85 per cent. Now it must be recollected that the discount in the market constitutes an inducement—a premium for pay. in them into the Exchequer on account of duties, and at whatever amount they are paid in, to that amount the avail. able revenue falls short. The Bank might thus at last be compelled to advance to Government in consequence of their issue. When he said compelled, he meant that sort of moral compulsion, arising out of time danger of suffering the machine of Government to stand still. It was plain from what he had said that no relief could be given, without the Bank being more or less directly a party. Then with regard .to secresy, he con feesed himself unable to discover any' ground for this objection. A man in the possession of solid property could surely not suffer in his credit by his wish to obtain proceeds from it. Somebody had talked about an oath to secretly having been taken by the Commissioners. lie could safely. assert that there had never been such a thing. Then it was said that it would be disagree. able to apply to Directors, they being themselves mercantile men. His answer to this was, that in 1793 the Commission of Sixteen bed been composed, with the exception of two, entirely of Merchants of the City of London, and that it had included no less than three Bunk Directors. Why it should be supposed that the same Gentlemen were to be communicative as Bank Directors, but as close as wax when Commissioners, he could not make out. The argument about secrecy be could not con sider of any validity. The Right Hon. Gentleman thought they were still more bound to give relief, because their measures of this Session had produced the evil.—This was an extraordinary statement ; in December last, Ministers had been applied to for aim advance of Exchequer Bills, when they were at 85 discount. He thought it was an extraordinary time. But it was surprising after this to hear any Gentleman ascribe the distress to the measures of time Session. However, relief was not refused. Government had chosen from two different modes of relief that which it thought least objectionable. — The measure now proposed, called upon the Bank to execute a function to which by law that body was competent. They had never thought that they were to stand still with their arms folded, and refute to do any thing. They had adopted what be must consider the most simple, easy, and natural course. Th e Right Hon. Gentleman had complained that Ministers had not used any language of a cheering nature. 11'hy if they had affected to treat lightly, or to undervalue the difficulties, he was convinced diet they would have drawn upon themselves a more severe attack, and indeed they would have deserved it. He concurred, however, entirely in the confidence which the Right Honourable Gentleman had expressed in the energy and strength of the country. He felt convinced, that the springs of prosperity still reteined all their pristine vigour. Though some of time branches might have been struck, the tree of our pros perity would still shoot out its vigorous roots in the fertile soil in which it was placed, and spreading r abreei new branches, quickly resume its former beauty and grandeur. Mr. BARING contended, that an issue of Exchequer bills would have been time best mode of relief. Ile complained of the delay which had taken place. If ever there had been a case of which the adage, " Us dat ui cito dot," was uppll. cable, diet case was the present. Till his Honourable Friend, the Member for the City of London, bad assumed his im. posing position under the gallery, nothing had been done.— lie could not help thinking Mr. Pitt a great authority upon such a sub ject as the present, even though, us they had been told the ot her evening, his genius was in it state of eclipse. Ile censured strongly time measures respecting the small notes, on account of their effect to contract the currency, and give a further shock to credit. They did not get rid of a bad example by sub. %tinning the flank in the place of the Government. The Hon. Gentleman compared the existing dif fi culties with those of 1811, and contended that the case was stronger now in favour of an issue of Exchequer Bills than on that former occasion. Exche quer Bills would have been to large dealers what the usual cur. rency was to the small ones, and the Right Hon. Gentleman was therefore in error when he eupposed that they would generally find their way to the blank in order to raise money. The repug nance of Government to interfere had aggravated the calamity. Ile had no apprehension about the ability of thellank to advance three millions ; be khew they were well able to do it. In the present state of time foreign exchanges they might make an un limited use of their capital. 'they had been forced into a corner by the Goveroment, and although they assented to its proposal with manifest reluctance, he was fully sensible of their power to comply. With respect to die Bank, he had for sonic time the honour of a seat as a Bank Directpr, and he then looked into the Charter pretty often. But ho never was aware that it gave Bank in c ases r t al a es t t; i st : o w fd a Ic e () ; them the power of lending money upon goods. And he would now say, that no man could read it with fairness and candour. er intended to bestow such a power. It was I tia d n t evidently the sole object of the clause in question, to provide, ds g should be d a e l p lo m w i e t t ca l to i u sel t l im t e he i m l a n i t f l s n o o f t the re- deemed. Tide was the only interpretation the Bank Solicitor would put upon the clause. But if the Government forced the Bank to adopt the principle of so advancing their capital, the moment they did that, they destroyed the security of the banking system. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer wished to establish sound principle and sound precedent, so far would he be from doing that by inducing the Bank to lend money upon goods, that he would be inflicting the greatest inj ur y upon the sound principles of banking. But, however, Rome thing was necessary to be done in the way of relief, and this was better than nothing ; and though it came late, and must now do less good than it would have done at an earlier period, he trusted that much benefit would be derived from it by the com. menial world. Ile thought the commercial body had great right to complain of the manner in which they had been held at arms-length by the Government, and treated as if they were unworthy of attention. One part of the plan mentioned by the Right lion. Chancellor of the Exchequer, was to admit the operation of the new law of merchant and factor in 2 or 3 months. When this law was passed, time Lord Chancellor, with the care which he usually bestowed upon any departure from establish ed laws, said that he desired to give public notice that the per sons to whom goods were consigned would be enabled to pawn them by this measure, and therefore the time at which it was to come into operation was fixed for next October. That was at least an honest determination to give warning to foreign mer chants of the situation in which they would be placed by the new law. But he could not say that it was equally honest' now" to come forward, after that warning had been giver4lo Aorta the time. He thought, therefore, that the Government would' have acted with a better grace towards those merchants if they had not approximated the time at which this law was tolake effect, nearer than the period originally fixed. Respecting the subject of secresy in applications for relief, he thought the re port of the Commissioners of 1793 proved how desirable it was considered to be at that time. The Hon. Member then read a passage from the Report, which stated that all the communica tions with merchants upon the subject of advances were de stroyed. He contended that a Bank Director was the last man to whom a merchant would like to make his difficulties known. This proved that a Commission would have best met the nature of the case, and not only have been more acceptable to the commercial world, but more adequate to the restoration of ge, neml confidence. He thought that his Majesty's Ministers had most ungraciously retarded the application of any, relief at all, and that it would consequently be very much diminishedln its effect now that it was to be applied. Lord ALTHORPE confessed that the question did not op pear to him to be one which ought to be much affected by cone siderations of precedent. He thought that the universal and deep distress of so many classes ought to be a claim for relief paramount to any such considerations whatever. He agreed' with the Government in their general measure for establishing the currency upon a sound footing, but they ought to have re lieved the i mediate distress at once, when they proposed to provide a remedy to prevent its recurrence. Whatever might be the intention of the words of the Bank Charter, it was evie dent that the measure proposed by the Government was an un usual, and an untried one, and that they had preferred it to another which had been proved to be good in its operation. • Mr. T. WILSON did not wish to have said any thing fare ther upon this subject; but after what had fallen from the itight Honourable Chancellor of the Exchequer; and the Right 140: nourable Secretary fbr Foreign Affairs, he was desirous of offering a few words in justice to himself, to chew that he had, not proceeded upon light grounds to express his disapprobation of the measures of Government. Every one had a right to choose between extremes, and to adopt either of the two mea sures which had been proposed to the' House. But Fie thoeght if the least popular one was preferred, it was due to the nation to state the grounds Upon which that preference was given w it. An idea had been held out that thiS measure would give satis faction to the public, and that to apply to the Bank for accome modetion upon goods was no more objectionable than to ask it upon bills of exchittige. It • had also' been held out in anothe r place, that the accommodation now sought would only be w anted for two or three months. 'He did not think that Onyintin, Pos sessing practical information, would be bold enough to venture upon such an opinion. In a case of general national distress like the present, relief would come with infinitely better effect from the Government than from any private individuals filling the office of Bank Directors. There was one ground taken by the Right Hon. Secretary for Foreign Affairs, of w hichhe world not go the length of saving, as another lion. Mem o e t s . had (lone, that it was unconstitutional, or absolutely ful to Parliament. But when the Right lion. Gentleman, in a case of great national calamity, attached no value to the opi nions of those who, from sufferings and experience, were enti tled to attention, and said that if the sentiments of Parliament and of the country were unanimous in favour of a measure In which his opinion did not concur, they might take the power out of his hands me seek those who would carry it into eifec s tef e i he thought it was at least taking too high a ground. lie c oe not help thinking that the trading communities of the countr y, disresp, the shipping interest, the agricultural interest , the Inae u f hiring interest, and all to whom the present distress ex tended, had been treated with a neglect and levity which they h a d not deserved at the hands of the Government. (heMr. AT WOOD said, that if the House would considerthe manner in 'which the case had been brought be fore vernment, they must see that the whole body of the com mie and manufaCturing interests of the country was in a s which if not relieved, must be entirely destructive to corcV. cial credit. And what was asked of the Government ? that they should grant the applicants a boon, but only the means of circulating•the wealth they had in their po session .e 7 The channels of commercial circulation were choked up, gr. the currency was to set that they only , called upon the Government to open them. a ee ,": Right Honourable Secretary had said that the measure aM was confident that question would never be 'set at rest as long as they , attempted to maintain the ancient standard 01 value in conjunction with the enormous weight of debt a nu taxes under which the country was now endeavouring to question at rest for ever. De stagger on. The Right Honourable Gentleman had thougba proper to disclaim any servile adulation of Mr. Pitt, and s", that he would never follow him in consenting to a restriction 01 , Cash Payments. But what was the value of the Bight 10° ' Gentleman's assertion that there should be no more bank striction Acts? When the collie-a of the Bank were empty ' restriction came as a matter of course, and could be stayed b/ 2s " the Ri l g oo h k t lion. 00t man. • But Mr. Pitt and Mr. Burke were only to be woroldl'r as great luminaefes, when their acts coincided with the viewl'e only ilen to tie t tn he an g: they were to be considered in eclipse. He wished the I ° 7 would when but this that in measure re n otntlhige;ictsien.; feet, but also at the price they were pitying for it. lie we': a t l a s fident of being able to prove inconteetibly dint the pa nic ' n f commercial world had been produced by the forced hones ° paper by the Bank. Mr. W. WH ITMORE had no hesitation in saying , th at In dot his opinion the measures of his Majesty's Ministers were t h e best that could be adopted under all the circumstances of case. It was his most decided cnnviction, that this measu r e waa for granting relief through the means of the Bank, wa g much better than the issuing of Exchequer Billet t i r s . it would increase the circulation, and give a gen era du s ha proved facility to mercantile transactions. Exchequer l _ es believed would be more beneficial to individuals, but the e ip : e vances of money by the Bank would he the best meastlree! oe that ts 1 affording general relief to the country. It had been sa id a which wer e vernment were not warranted in opposing measures wa. strongly urged by Parliament and the country at large, m e w though they were not convinced of the propriety of sue mires. Now although lie thought the opinione of that Swe et and of the people at large ought always to be considered wort h respect and attention, yet when Ministers had adoPte d a del of measures which they believed to be right and goo' , su p. were bound to stake thei r r e p u t at i ons an d their places in der porting them.—(Cheers.)—H e i ntreate d the House to cosintho every thing that fell from the lion. Member who aat °„, o ne same bench with him (Mr. Att w o o d) a s emanating rai ns A u- paticular theory, of w hi c h t h at lion. Member was not t e ad to thor, but the principal promoter, and which would only le bse ke national bankruptcy —(Hear I)—it would lead to nationalliouse ruptcy, and national bankruptcy alone—(Cheers) ---If th e the were prepared to abandon all their pledges, and to f orfe it ,d. honour and credit of the country; then let them adopt tau o f trines of the lion. Member. If ever that unfortunate l ' e t r a hlet circumstances arose which rendered such a calamity he would say, let them meet it honourably and oPea'Y ' a d at ini would not consent to be a party to any course win" ) 1' upon such an object by crooked and secret means. lie ca ll e d u s the House not to be induced to abandon his Majesty's Ministoto in the measures they had so laud a bly commenced. ne % %bey state openly that they had his confidence, and be thouglit ee , s deserved the confidence of the count fie said this decided conviction of the beneficial n ature of their ineaststee' 9 He had no connection with the Government, and it v/ 1 4 sa y tremely improbable that he 'ever should have; but be eve' t , ea that in his opinion the country never had an Administrat'°,,, of calculated to develope its best resources—to lead to rot u i : s ell the power which it formerly possessed, and to carry it t ° , - t he greater and more glorious extent—and to benefit, not on, tore interests of this country, but of the whole world. Ile withdraw cautioned the House against being induced hastily to 1 9t" t d him that support and confidence by which the Government int therto been able to carry their measures into effect. - Mr. ATTWOOD explained. unttl Mr. P. MOORE said, that all the wants of the l ie a t.; were comprised in one word, and that was confidence. • _ o f tributed all the distress of the country to the transachonteho the Stock Exchange. Then the question was—what e ere hele to do with the Stock Exchange ?—( Laughter.) r_tei something of their proceedings in that Pandemon iu m--f a rneel s m t, laugh)—and his Honourable Friends around hint knew r of them as he did.—(Great laughter.)—Their p find a d °. were regularly transacted, and he knew where to mestic broker at a moment's notice. (Laughter.) being elected their members, and if any one went there, n e e e ir.":„.° a 'member, he was pushed, and thumped, and kicl:l ro s tr io (Continued laughing.)—The Gentlemen of this Panel ea transac. attempted to over-rule the Gove r n ment and all the eeeas tions of private life. His Majesty' s Ministers had the to put them down, and the Lord Mayor and Alderntea_ .:b o the power to put them down. Well, then, what lear, e w eols done ? Why he would tell them. Make him Lord their Alta.).- • and he would put them down at once.---(Loud lau e ieing thett , would not consider that the Government would be a so. at p duty, if they did not stop the gambling schemes of th tints monium, as Sir Richard Birnie did those of the establos • hi Pall-mall. wit h re' Mr. ELLICE expl a i ne d as to certain observations ,test AnY gard to the expediency of issuing Exchequer bills. won hO increase in the circulation of Bank parer, he said, !e_.ooolo sure to bring back the crisis. lie had loped that a wnT iope et disagreement would have taken place between COY!' 11 $ 11R and the Bank; but he was now sorry to find that tn: ti ieely became the instruments of a half measure, which was / be OW to prove so be ne fi c i a l as the other plan p roposed for t tion of Government. The Motion was then put and agreed to. PROMISSORY NOTES BILL., S vc s tl4 l The CHANCELLOR of' the EXCHEQUE R P"